As President Bahari signs the Petroleum Industry Act into law, the presidency says the president was being responsive to the yearning of the majority of Nigerians. Also, the president is set to announce the Act's implementation committee. And the governor, Amino Bello Massa, has officially approved a resort to self-help and has asked his people to acquire weapons in defence against terror and banditry. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Cohn. President Mohamed Bahari has signed the Petroleum Industry Act into law and the presidency has defended the signing saying he was being responsive to the yearning of the majority of Nigerians. Meanwhile, the president will unveil an implementation committee for the Petroleum Industry Act report. The report is stating that the committee may be chaired by either the Minister of State for Petroleum Resources, Mr Timmy Prey Silva, or someone with good knowledge of development economics. Well, joining us to discuss this is National Publicity Secretary Pandev, Mr Ken Robinson, and the Executive Director of Extra Step Initiative, Eugene Abels. Thank you very much for joining us, Mr Robinson. Thank you so much. Good evening, Nigeria. All right, Mr Abels will be joining us as we go on. But let me start by looking at the fact that the president seemed to have bowed to pressure to sign this particular bill now, an Act, into law, and of course a committee is set to be announced against the kicking, against the 3% by host communities and other stakeholders. This bill has been signed into law. What message is descending to host communities, especially those oil-producing communities? It's sad that the president signed it in response to a women's desire by the majority of Nigerians. That's an insensitive majority that do not feel the impact of the industry operations affected by the Niger Delta people. So it's actually, it was a sad day for the people of the Niger Delta. We are not talking about the political influence Niger Delta. We are talking about the ordinary people in the Niger Delta, the grandmothers, the young men, the women, the old men, the fishermen and the farmers, whose means of livelihood have been decimated and whose environment have been degraded. It is sad that Mr President did not give regard to the overwhelming upcry and condemnation by the people that greeted that passage of the bill by the National Assembly. And as we have said earlier, it's a clear sign of disregard to the feelings and aspirations and the sensibilities of the Niger Delta people. And so if Mr President says he bowed to the pressure of Nigerians, of course, as I said earlier, it's the insensitive Nigerians. The Nigerians that are taking the Niger Delta for granted for over 60 years that do not care about the sufferings of our local people. And so it's very sad for us. And the Niger Delta people will continue to consult amongst ourselves and in the best ways respond to this, as we have called it, Carlos Act by the Nigerian state. One of the presidents has said that he's signed this for the benefit of the majority of Nigerians. Now, of course, we also know that Nigeria is not just about the oil producing communities. We're known as a country that produces oil. Whether we like it or not, everybody benefits from this oil. And in our National Assembly, it's not just the coast communities where we have these oil producing outfits that have a say. We have people from the north, we have people from the south and the central and the east. Everybody has a say. So maybe what Mr President is saying is that it wasn't just the, you know, it didn't just boil down to the members of the National Assembly representing the host communities. It had to be, you know, a decision for the extended house. Now, don't forget also, the House of Representatives had voted for 5%. And of course, the Senate voted for 3%. There was a joint committee that finally agreed. They had met each other halfway and still agreed on the 3%. So maybe Mr President's hands are tied and he can't solely make that decision. Don't you think so? The President is the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. And as Spandef and other very patriotic organizations have always said, one of the greatest problems of this administration is nepotism. Before the Senate and the House of Reps, the National Assembly passed that bill. We are aware that some, not an elite, had meetings with the caucus of the National Assembly from the north. And the message was that protect the interests of the north. It's rather ridiculous that we should be talking about protecting the interests of a section. And that played out in the throwing up of the 30% of profit of NNPC Limited for oil exploration in the frontiers. But it is politics.  Please, I'm not in any way holding brief for them. But of course, I have to play the devil's advocate here. It is politics. People have to lobby for their interests. And I'm guessing that interests obviously came into play. And what the Norston extraction, although those representatives did, was to also see how they could benefit from the PIB. So can you really blame these people for asking or trying to see if they could get something out of it and then finally getting it? Should one particular section of society be prioritized over the other? I'm just asking. The presidency of this country, one of the requirements, one of the conditions in the constitution of this country is that the presidency will administer the state of affairs in a fair, just and equitable manner to all Nigerians is stated in the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. And the Niger Delta people who produce about 80% of the resources of this country for so many years have been badly treated. And what Mr. President has done, as we have said earlier, is a clear message to us, the Niger Delta people, that how we feel and what we say do not matter in the scheme of affairs of Nigeria. And so it's a message we have received. And not too far from today, the Niger Delta people will also send a message to Nigerians. I'm curious as to what you mean by the president doesn't care about the people in the Niger Delta. I mean, it's not just, again, not just the choice of Mr. President. You had members of your different constituencies and senatorial districts on that floor. They could have also done a job of lobbying just as those Northern elites, you know, lobbied to get their 30%. Why couldn't we get our people to also lobby? It's not just the Niger Delta communities that are on the floor of the National Assembly. You have people from the Southwest. You have people from the North Central. You have people from different parts of the country. Why couldn't we, from this part, also lobby for that kind of percentage? It looked more like we were hoping that, you know, because the oil is taken from right under us that, you know, the president will obviously be signing the paper to favor us. You see, it's begging the issue when we say we should lobby for what is our own. But why shouldn't we? Listen, my sister, when Cocoa was the main state, Cocoa and Granote were the main state of the nation's economy, did they lobby to get 50% derivation? Why must the Niger Delta people be treated this way? And we are saying that enough is enough. Mr. President, in this regime, rejected bills that have been passed by the National Assembly, which held assent. And if the Niger Delta people could have said, it's not just about the 50%. There is also a clause in that act now that says that the central, the IOCs, will decide who becomes members of the Board of Trustees of that trust. This act is officially legalizing, making the Niger Delta host communities slaves to the IOCs because they will direct even as bad as the 3% is. And all those issues were lighted during the public hearing for this, the bill, and acts that those sections were amended. There is an action, there is an aspect that they dropped, and that was that the IOCs could even decide to appoint somebody not indigenous to the communities to be in the Board. So Mr. President, as the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, we expected that we should have listened to the cries and outcry and condemnations of the Niger Delta from well-meaning Nigerians, people that have supported this country and sacrificed a lot for the unity and progress of this country for several years. Again, could we have done better than what we have done? Because again, I'm taking your words. You're saying why should we be lobbying for something that belongs to us? But you're comparing the cocoa era to 2021. And those were two different eras where it was two different systems of government. So again, we have to understand where we are now and how to deal with the situation in the now. So if we all folded our arms and hoped that government, and when I say we, I'm talking about the people in the Niger Delta, if you folded your arms and hoped that because this is your legacy, this is something that should automatically come to you or favour you and it didn't work and you saw the writing on the wall, shouldn't it have been an extra push for the people in the Niger Delta to liaise? I mean, we see our members on the floor of the National Assembly liaise or come to terms with certain things or join forces when it has to do with their personal things that favour them. So why couldn't we see our own members from the Niger Delta do the same in this instance? Because you keep talking about the simple man, the farmer, the fisherman, maybe it probably would not bother the members of the National Assembly and that's why they took that step. But the people in the Niger Delta, I have always seen press releases and people talking, I have seen Chief Clark speak, but has there been a push other than just talking, has there been a real push that could have made or forced Mr. President's hand to put a hold on this particular act now that it's been signed into law to be returned for some form of amendment? Because I didn't see that. My sister, I'm aware, I'm conscious, aware of the fact that I'm on national television and so I will mind the words that we use, but I'm certain that efforts were made. We are the members who stood up to speak at the floor of the Senate and in the House of Representatives. Efforts were made. We are in a very precarious situation in this country. Don't forget, Senators Silakit Dixon stood up and spoke. A few days after his interventions at the floor of the Senate, he was invited by the EFCC over frivolous allegations. That is the country where we are in. Our people are being intimidated, being harassed. So you think that he's being invited by the DSS, had any connection with his statements on the floor of the Senate? Is that what you're saying? That is how we perceive it because it was after those interventions at the Senate that he was invited. He has been in the Senate for long before then. So that is the situation our people are in. And you know the faulty electoral system. If they think that you have a strong voice in the Senate or House of Reps in the next election, they will make you go to combat. That is the funny and very faulty system we operate in Nigeria. And to some extent, we don't blame those of our people who are there who have become voiceless in spite of how bad they feel. But we're encouraging them that you should stand firm. A time will come when we, the people, will decide who will represent us. And whether anybody likes it anywhere in Abuja, anywhere, you will represent us. That's the encouragement we are giving to them. And we'll strengthen it. So now that this bill has been signed, let's just look at some of the, let's piece together some of the recommendations. We know that a committee would be asked to determine the assets and liabilities of the NNPC, which will be transferred to the NNPC Limited. We also know that the committee would be tasked with the responsibility of determining stranded or toxic assets and liabilities, which would be taken over by government. It has 12 months to finish its job. Now, what part of this act do you think at least benefits the people in the host communities? I'm not even going to go into the problems that the host communities already have with the IOCs, including the cleanup with Shell, Goni, and there are other areas in the Niger Delta that have issues of oil spills that has affected the livelihood of people. But looking at it from Panda's perspective, what are the things in that particular act that you think would be beneficial? Because we've talked about the things that you have a problem with. What are the things in the act that could be beneficial to the people in the Niger Delta? And I don't want to join those who think that there is something to benefit from that document. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch. And everything there is perfected to favoring a particular section of this country. Today we saw some items, I don't know how true, it is some news reports that the committee to supervise the implementation of this act is going to be headed by the coordinating person is the Secretary of the Petroleum Technology Development Fund. Where is he from? So we are going to have a ceremonial head who could be the Minister of State Petroleum or any other person, and then we have the coordinating head of the team. Well according to the reports that we have, no one has really been named except for Timmy Price-Silver who we already know as the Minister of State for Petroleum. But the government has been tight-lipped as to who will be there. These are only speculations. So I would rather that we thread the caution on this particular one. So you are a news person so I will take your comment on that because something signed by Femme Addition was forwarded to me a few moments ago. And it's based on that that I'm making my comments. But if you say that that is not true I will take your position. But the truth is that there is a reason why there is a clamor for restructuring. There is a reason why the agitations for cessation are increasing. And it's because people feel that they are not being treated as they should be treated. And it's very clear that a section of this country thinks that this country belongs to them. But that's not true. Nigeria belongs to all of us. And very soon we will make it clear that this country belongs to all of us and the Niger Delta people are key stakeholders in Nigeria. What is the grouse with that particular region of the country being given that 30% to search for oil in the Chad? What exactly is your grouse with that? We can explore to see if we do have oil even though I mean there are many people experts who have said that the lifespan of oil is very short these days around the world and that's why people are moving to alternative sources of energy. But in the meantime, what's wrong with exploring? It's just an exploration. If they find something well, if they don't they'll keep it up. But what's wrong with that? I'm not an economist but from my elementary economy I can tell you that does not make economic sense. How much did Nigeria allocate to the exploration of oil in the Niger Delta? What did we spend? Oil business is a business. If people want to prospect for oil in any part of Nigeria what Nigerian government should do is to create the enabling environment for businessmen and women for investors to go and explore for oil. If they find oil fine is a business. If they don't find it's a loss. Nigeria spending 30% of its profit from a national company for exploration of oil is fraudulent and it's unacceptable to the Niger Delta people. Meanwhile you're giving us 3% of operating costs of IOCs and we hear the group managing director of the NNBC say 3% will amount to about $500 million. What is $500 million to all those communities in the Niger Delta in one year? If you break it down you could even go down to $10,000 per community. What is $10,000? Is it what they give to their girlfriends and their loyalists for dinner or for breakfast? Is there any source to the Niger Delta people and it's immensely unacceptable to us? Well let me go to the presidential spokesperson's message when pressmen were pressing him on why the president took the position that he took. Now he said that the president's action was, he said the legislation was open to review and amendments. In other words it's not a closed case. In other words the people in the Niger Delta do still have an avenue to appeal to the consciences of maybe members of the National Assembly, maybe Mr. President because of course he, but then he has a center to it. They're saying it's open to review and amendments. He also said that he was also asked by the way, why the president ignored the cries of the people in the Niger Delta and the majority of the people who were kicking against this percentage. And he said that, I'd like to quote him, he said that those who were faulting the law to follow the right channels, to effect the right changes as the law was not set in stone. He said and I quote, the law is the making of all Nigerians and not the president alone. It is not cast in stone, it can be changed. So there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel here for the people in the Niger Delta. It's not necessarily, like he said, cast in stone. So what is in the works for the people in the Niger Delta and I'm talking about from Pandep's perspective to push and I'm not just the people of Pandep for CSOs. What about the governors of the different states in these Niger Delta regions who are the major holders of stakeholders in these oil business? And I'm talking about states like rivers, Akwaibom, Bayelsa, Delta. What are the governors doing? Aside from everybody's attention being focused on the 2023 elections and the campaigns that are going to come up soon. What are your governors doing? Because these people also wield some form of power. What are they doing? We can't speak for the governors, but the fact is that there is a need for a change in the political culture in the country. There is something fundamentally wrong with how we draw people. Our electoral processes are faulty and we are surprised that Mr. President and the National Assembly is not giving the same expediency and speed to the process of amending the electoral system to guarantee free, fair and credible elections in the country so that people can speak their mind, people can do what their people want them to do because they know that if they don't do what their people want them to do and continue to do what some persons in Abuja or wherever want them to do, they could be voted out by their people, not through the processes of force by the government. We must understand these problems because they exist. We have seen where state force have been used to make people lose elections. We have seen Supreme Court giving judgment for people to become governors. These processes have to change and so the electoral system is important and it's critical that the president and the National Assembly should also give the same speedy consideration to the process of amending the electoral acts. When we have a credible electoral process then the people can hold their governors, their senators, the House of Rep members and the Assembly members accountable including their local government chairmen. While we have that in the works because there has been a plug, they pulled the plug on that one for now. While we're waiting for that to be done and pushing for it, why are we just putting everything at the table of Mr. President and I'm not in any way again absolving Mr. President of his stake in this but why are you not taking this grouse to your governors? I'm asking the question and I ask the other one why are the Niger Delta people not occupying their government houses because those are the people who are directly their government before you talk about the federal government. If there is pressure on governors don't you think that there will be hit on Mr. President? The governors I would believe are doing their best. Are they? I thought you said you don't want to speak on behalf of the governors. No, but I live in reverse states. I travel almost every week from Biosa Delta, Akwaibom to Benin almost every week. I'm in one state or the other and I know the challenges we face as a people. I know the difficult terrains that we have. I don't want to begin to talk about the cost for constructing good roads in the Niger Delta but the constitution of this country makes the president of Nigeria like the god of Nigeria. Who keeps saying this? It's like a god of Nigeria. If he wakes up this morning and he says this is what he wants it can be done. He woke up one morning and through a presidential fiat created something for gold miners in Zanfarah. That's the president of Nigeria. That's the power that the constitution has given to the president of this country. So the bar stops at his table. Well, finally going forward as the 3% has become you know, law and now we have minister of state for petroleum who is going to be seating over that committee that has 12 months to implement all of the things that have been stated in that act which has become law. Is there some hope of change in the way that things are being run especially with the NNPC with the NDDC and other offshoots of this particular PIA is there going to be because again I want to say this energy that we have now that the anger and the you know the feeling that we have been deceived or we have been deprived of something can we put it to see that this act is followed through to the latter. Is this something that PANDEF can take upon itself? PANDEF is interested in how communities and people will benefit from this process. And we have studied the act now and act, we studied the bill and all the versions of the bill we have studied the act now and it is geared towards profit maximization for the federal government of Nigeria and the IOCs to complete neglect of the people of the Niger Delta. Let us restate that unless the people of the Niger Delta in whose back house this industry is operated are giving adequate participation in the management and operations of the industry we may not have peace in the Niger Delta as expected. That's the fact. Well I want to say thank you very much Mr Ken Robinson is of PANDEF and he seems to be very unhappy but let's hope that the government hears you know the anger in your voice and then maybe like they said they're open to amendments and maybe you have an avenue to take your grouse to the federal government. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for being here. Well we'll take a short break and when we return Governor Aminu Maseri has given his citizens the go ahead to acquire weapons and defend themselves against bandits. Is this where we are now? Well we'll talk about it after the break.


Under the Dome is back. I'm your host Emily Brewer and I'm your other host Bobby Lucier. Under the Dome is your source of information for this year's Vermont legislative session. Make sure you stay tuned in the coming weeks and you can watch on Comcast channel 1087, Burlington telecoms channel 17 and 217 as well as online at our YouTube channel youtube.com slash town meeting TV. We'll see you under the dome.