Our next caller is Tina from Texas. Hey, Tina, how can we help you? Hey, how are you doing? Good. All right, so I have two questions. My first one is about calorie surplus, and my second one is about IF. So as far as the calorie surplus goes, real quick, background, I'm 51. About two years ago, I started getting some menopausal symptoms. Everything I was doing before wasn't working anymore. So I dove in, started to research, and I was able to recomp pretty good after a year and a half by following macros and lifting more consistently. And so I wanted to step it up, and I hired an online coach in December because my goal was just a little bit more muscle definition. And she put me on a six-day split, three-leg days, which was great. I'm loving it. That's what I'm doing right now. And she put me on a meal plan that's like six meals a day, typical, you know, grilled chicken, rice. I was able to follow it. I lost some body fat, but I'm still feeling like I'm not getting the muscle definition I want. And I'm wondering if it's because I'm not eating enough. That's what I've read. You've got to be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle. And then as far as the IF goes, I've always really liked IF. I like the way it makes me feel. I like the health benefits of it. But I've read that if you don't break your fast within a certain amount of time after your workout, that you could risk muscle loss. Let's stick to the first one first. Let's get the first one first. And let me add, Tina, I have a question for you. Did you ask if your personal trainer listens to Mind Pump first? No, I did not. Oh, Tina. Tina. Damn it, Tina. I tell everybody. If you're going to hire a trainer, that should be the first question you guys ask right now. So that would be the second question I have for you. Where are the calories at right now? So I started in December when she gave me the plan. She didn't give me calories. She just gave me ounces and follow this plan. When I calculated it, it was like 1,200 calories. And I asked her, I'm like, is this right? And she said, well, yeah, they're going to vary a little. I do have one high carb day. So they were like around 1,200, 1,300. But I listened to my body. And if I'm working out and I get hungry, I will eat. I'll make sure I make some good choices. But so I wasn't following her plan 100%. I was listening more to my body. Good for you. And that's better because a six day split. And I don't know how tall and how heavy you are. But that's not very many calories, especially somebody who's training that aggressively. So that would be the first thing. You're correct in the idea. If we're going to try and build muscle, unless you were a total newbie, you will see some newbie gains of building muscle when you're on low calorie. But for the most part, in order to build muscle, build that metabolism up, we're going to want to increase calories. And so I would actually push you more in the direction of like a maps anabolic type of program, which is only a three day a week full body routine, and increase your calories to help build some muscle, speed the metabolism up before I take you back the other direction.  And because you've been cutting for a little while and your age, even you talked about your age a little bit, I would exactly what Adam said, bump your calories up and try to gain strength and gain muscle. And what you might find is you'll actually get leaner as a result. You might find that you'll gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time. At 1,200 calories, you have nowhere else to go, right?  And that's just not sustainable, at least not with the clients I've ever worked with. It's too low. So bump the calories up and I would go for strength. I would go for increasing strength and you're likely to find that you're going to get leaner as a result. At the very least, you'll maintain your leanness, gain some muscle and speed up your metabolism, which case it's going to make the future cut much easier. As far as intermittent fasting is concerned, no, that's false. You're not going to lose muscle if you don't eat food for a day or whatever, 12 hours. That doesn't work that way. However, too frequent intermittent fasting in people can sometimes be a stress on the body. And this is more common with women and more common with women past the age of 40. You start to see hormone imbalances pop up a little bit more often in women than in men by utilizing things like intermittent fasting. Now, the reason why you feel so good doing it, there's a couple of reasons. One is it boosts catecholamine production. This is like your epinephrine and these kind of feel-good energy hormones. Cortisol goes up a little bit, which feels good. And it gives you energy. But over time, this can be a little bit of a stress. So I would limit fasting to once a week or something like that at the most, just if you like the way that it feels. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Doug, what was the name of the episode? Did we do an episode titled Intermittent Fastings Making You Fat or something like that? That sounds familiar. I'll look it up. Yeah, maybe you can look it up while we're talking to her so we can give that to her. If not, if I don't get it to you by the time we hang up, I'll definitely give it in this podcast. So make sure, Tina, if you haven't listened to that episode, we did a really good full-in-depth dive on the pros and cons of intermittent fasting, how we think most people should use it, how most people use it wrong. I think that episode will probably answer all the questions that you have around that. And then we're going to shoot you over maps in a block. I'm assuming you don't have it. Do you not have maps in a block? No. OK, we're going to shoot that over to you for a while. I've been looking at your program. Yep. I really want to get into one of your programs. The only thing is I just want to make sure I can do them at home with my weights. I have dumbbells up to 50 pounds. We have. We have. So I want to make sure that I'm able to do all of them. We actually have. We last year, when the whole COVID thing happened, we actually made mods for most all of our program. About 90% of them have at-home mods that all you need is a set of dumbbells and you're fine. So they all come with a mod. So we're going to send you anabolic for free. So you can follow that. Slowly increase your calories. Don't increase them a ton. And actually the way you're doing it probably right now is probably perfect. If you're hungry, feed yourself. Just make a good choice. And then the other thing that I'm going to offer to you for free is to come in our forum. So we have a private forum. Where you can come in there. And besides the three of us are in there. We've got tons of nutritionists. We've got other personal trainers in there. Mobility specialists, a lot of brilliant minds and a lot of great people going through our programs. And you've got questions about your diet. You've got questions about your training program. What's going on? You put them in there and you'll get that same type of feel that you're probably paying for with a online coach. Only you get it for free once you're inside the forum. All right, cool. Sounds good. All right, great. Thanks for calling. All right, thanks, guys. Have a good day. You too, Tina. Yeah, that old online coach approach of eat this food. Yeah, just eat this food. Cringeworthy. Follow this meal plan. They didn't even tell her the calories. Here's your workout six days a week.  Six days a week lift. Yeah, and six days body part split lift. You're going to lose weight and lean out a little bit, for sure. So the initial results that you see is not a reflection of good coaching or good training. It's like this person obviously should have focused first on building strength and increasing calories, build her metabolism up before she went into a, especially a 1,200 calorie. I mean, and again, we didn't ask how much she weighs. I'm assuming she's more than 98 pounds, though. So I mean, that's definitely super low calorie. And I wouldn't be training her six days a week on a split. A full body, two to three day a week program would serve her much better.


This is one of the areas that was inundated with flood waters. So what happened is early that morning I'd come down Yosemite, I just made a right hand turn on 13th and what I was doing is coming down to see if any of the streets still needed barricaded or needed any help from traffic operations where I work and I had occasion to come along here. I saw a large black dog right here on those rocks and he was on his way down to the water. Now that particular day the water was probably another 10 feet higher and he was on the rocks so I wanted to pull over and stop to make sure he wouldn't jump in and get swept away. When I pulled over I whistled at the dog. The dog looks over at me and he just kind of had a frightened look on his face and he was shaking and I noticed his leash went down in the water and it was very tight so it looked like he was caught. So I started to walk over here to go get him and grab ahold of him when I looked down below these grates right here and right up in front right there where you see the water going in right back behind the grocery basket there there was a man laying face down and he had that same colored leash around his right hand extended out face down. So I yelled down to him are you okay and he rolled over real slow looked at me and said help me and when soon as he said that the dog heard him dog jumped in the water went through the grate jumped on top of him and you see how fast the water is going he swept him away. So I ran down got down on the the embankment there where the rocks are looked back in to see if I could see him if he was hanging on to anything but the water at that time was probably about 10 feet deep down in there and is running a lot faster. I knew he was gone but growing up in this neighborhood I knew where this particular culvert comes out above ground again. This is about 1600 block Akron this is where Mr. Webb and his dog finally come out of the culvert that he went into at 13th and Exenia. That particular day the water water level was high enough to where it's about a foot between the top of the culvert and the surface of the water so when he came out he came out on his back he came out here with his dog at that point that's when Denver fire was able to grab him and the dog and bring him up grew up around this neighborhood spent my entire childhood in this neighborhood and I kind of knew where these tunnels went because we used to run around in these ditches when we were kids. I truly believe that his dog was the one that kept him afloat because his dog was with him at all times a dog's probably 70 pounds or better and being a rescue dog he knew exactly what he was supposed to do and he did his job.


Amen. So keep your place there in Revelation chapter 2. So in Revelation chapter 2, we have four churches. If you have a red letter Bible, all the words Revelation chapter 2 are in red. We see Jesus is giving very specific advice to four churches in Revelation chapter 2. We've gone through three of these churches so far. And tonight we are looking at the fourth church, which is Thyatira, beginning at verse number 18. So we see a pattern in Jesus' advice to these four churches where Jesus first describes himself as something or gives himself or lists himself a name. Then he gives some good things that the churches are doing. Then he gives some bad things that the churches are doing. And then he lists the consequences of what will happen to these churches if they don't get things right. So obviously in the first verse of Revelation chapter 2, he calls himself he who walketh in the midst of the seven gold of candlesticks. In verse number 8, he says he's the first and the last. In verse number 12, he says these things would have the sharp sword with two edges. And then in verse number 18, we see as the church of Thyatira, Jesus calls himself, he doesn't call himself a name, he gives a description of himself here. Look down at Revelation chapter 2 in verse number 18. Let me give you a little bit of a warning tonight. I've been accused of being fairly, I don't want to say geared towards or whatever, but preaching pretty hard and being pretty hard on the men of the church and of guys in the church. Tonight we're going to look at the women in the church. We're going to look at what the Bible says about a woman's role as that has to do with the advice that Jesus is giving to this church. And let me just say that it doesn't matter, you need to kind of put yourself in a mindset whether you're a man or a woman, you need to put yourself in this mindset that if the Bible says it, that's what I'm going to believe. Because many things that we come across in the Bible, they're just going to be, and look, this is just going to get worse and worse and worse as time goes on, but the culture of the day is not matching the Bible. Okay, so you need to just tell yourself in your mind, especially if you are going to thrive in a church that preaches the whole Bible, that it doesn't matter what the culture of the world is doing, what the Bible says is what my culture will be. Okay, look down at verse number 18, and let's get into it this evening. Jesus is talking to the church at Thyatira, and he says, these things, and unto the angel of the church in Thyatira, these things say, at the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass. Flip back to Revelation chapter one. Flip back to Revelation chapter one. This is not giving a name or some other kind of description of Jesus. This is a description of what Jesus looks like here. Look at Revelation chapter one in verse number 13. In Revelation chapter one, verse number 13 the Bible says, and in the midst of the seven candlesticks, one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and gird about the paps with a golden girdle. And in verse 14, this is John, he's describing what he's seeing here.  This is quite a scene if you actually picture what this looks like. Jesus is bright white, his raiment is bright white. Turn to Matthew chapter 17.  Think about that for a second.  This is talking about if you've ever stood next to the ocean, especially next to a cliff or something, how loud it is, and how the water comes crashing down, and it's just this booming all-around sound, and that is what is happening here. It's quite a presence that we are seeing of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what we're seeing in Revelation chapter 2 in verse number 18. This is Jesus Christ in his glorified state is what we are seeing. Now look at Matthew chapter 17, and look at verse number 1. Peter, James and John saw this, and Jesus allowed them to see this at the transfiguration of Christ. Look at verse number 1 of Matthew chapter 17. The Bible says that after six days, Jesus taketh Peter, James and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them, and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here. If thou wilt let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, one for Moses, and one for Elias. So the point I'm trying to make to you is whenever you think about Jesus, whenever you, and look, this is being ruined today, but whenever you think about Jesus, you think about this picture of Jesus, because this is what Jesus looks like right now. The Bible gives us that description. This is the Jesus that the Bible says, it makes a little bit more sense, right? When the Bible says in Philippians chapter two, that every knee shall bow to Jesus. It makes a little bit more sense that this would be the Jesus that we're talking about, the flaming eyes of fire, this all-powerful. Look, Jesus is God, the booming voice of many waters. Turn back to Revelation chapter two. So Jesus gives, in the final church of Revelation chapter two, in the fourth church, Jesus just gives a description of what he looks like. Okay, look at Revelation chapter two in verse number 19. So now Jesus goes into, you know, he's the good manager, right?  So here's the good news. Look at verse number 19. Verse number 19 of Revelation chapter two. He says, I know thy works and charity. Keep in mind, this is Jesus speaking. These are red words. And service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works. Interestingly, he says, works twice. He says, I know thy works, and then he says all these good things that they're doing. And then he says, and thy works, he says it again. And why does he say it again? Because he says, and the last to be more than the first. Turn to Ecclesiastes chapter seven. So this is a pretty good thing that this church is doing. So he's saying, look, this church is doing some really good works here. And what's even better about that is that this church, they're doing better works now than they were before. This church is getting better. They're doing more works. They're doing harder works. They're doing better works now than they did at the beginning. But guess what? That's how a church should be. A church that is growing where the Christians are getting more mature. This is what should happen. There should be more works happening as time goes on. Ecclesiastes chapter seven, verse number eight. The Bible says, better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof. And the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit. So look, this church is getting better. They're getting greater. The works are getting better. Go back to Revelation chapter two, verse number 20. Jesus says, this is a good thing. This is a good thing. These works that you're doing, they're increasing. So what's the problem? What's the problem? There's a big problem in this church. So Jesus is saying, hey, you're doing some good things. You're doing much better things than you were at the beginning. You know, you're doing service. You've got faith. You know, you've got patience. But, look at verse number 20. Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee.  Sufferest means you're allowing. They're saying, he's saying, you're allowing this woman in your church to teach these things, to get my servants to commit fornication. Assuming, you know, I mean, we can just assume that it's the men here. That they're committing fornication, sacrifice you to idols. Some of the same things that the church at Pergamus was having happen. But the problem is, they're allowing this woman to push this, to teach this doctrine. So yes, it's fornication. Yes, it's idolatry. But the root cause is this. Turn to 1st Timothy chapter two. Turn to 1st Timothy chapter two. How is she teaching them anything is the problem in this church? This is the root cause of the problem. Look at 1st Timothy chapter two in verse number 12. I mean, this may shock you today. This would shock people outside of the Bible today. But the Bible says this. It says, but I suffer a woman not to teach. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor a soup or serve authority over the man, but to be in silence. The point I'm trying to make is that the problem in Thyatira should have never been a problem because there shouldn't have been a woman in the church teaching the men anything. It should have never been possible. Let's talk about what the Bible says is a woman's role. Turn to Titus chapter two. The Bible is very specific, and look, this is counter-cultural today. The Bible is very specific on men's roles and women's roles. Look at Titus chapter two. Titus chapter two and look at verse number three. Now look, the Bible says that women, especially in the church, they can teach. They're just not to assert authority or teach the men in the church. Look at Titus chapter two and verse number three. Let's look at a woman's role tonight and look at how this should not have been possible for this to be happening at the church in Thyatira. Titus two, look at verse number three. The Bible says the aged women likewise that they be in behavior as become a holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things. Or that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Turn to Hebrews chapter 10. Now this is a big deal right here. So the Bible here is saying, look, women in the church, especially it's saying the aged women, the older women, you know what, and that can even be just the more spiritually mature women in the church. It says they can teach, but they're to teach the younger women, they're to teach the children on how to be all these things that it lists. Holy behavior, telling the truth, not being a drunk, not being someone who is given to wine, that they may be sober, love their husbands, obedient to their husbands, love their children, keepers at home. Boy, you don't wanna hear that one today. But go to Hebrews chapter 10. Go to Hebrews chapter 10. Notice what it says at the end of verse number five, where it says, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. You know what that means? You know what that means? It says, when the Bible tells you to do something and you understand what the Bible is saying and then you don't do it, you are blaspheming the word of God. That's what it's, and look, this applies to anything. This applies to anything. This applies to the Bible telling you to go to church. This applies to the Bible telling you to go out and spread the gospel. And you understand that, you don't do it, you are blaspheming the word of God. And that's what the Bible says here. Look at Hebrews 10, and look at verse number 26. Of course, verse number 25 is telling us a very famous verse in the Bible about how we should be in church and how you should go to church. But look at verse 26. The Bible says something very similar to Titus 2.5 here. It says, for if we sin willfully, meaning if you hear the word of God and you're just like, yep, I understand that, but I'm not doing it. If you sin willfully, then let's keep reading. That after we have received the knowledge of the truth. That means you've read the Bible, you understand it. There remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. You know what that's saying? This isn't talking about losing your salvation. It's saying, look, you know what? It's like, you're saved, you read the Bible, and you're like, yep, I get that, I understand it, not doing it.  Jesus died for you once. You're saved, you're sealed, but guess what's coming to you? Keep reading. But a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries. Look, there's punishment coming. If you do that, if you choose to read the word of God, to understand the word of God and ignore the word of God, there's punishment coming to you. We saw that with King Saul this morning. So let's go back to Titus, actually turn to Deuteronomy chapter six. Titus chapter two is explaining the role of women both at home and in the church. There are to be teachers mainly too. There are to teach these holy things. There are to be mature. There are to teach the children, teach the younger women. Look at Deuteronomy chapter six. Look at Deuteronomy chapter six and look at verse number six. The Bible says in Deuteronomy chapter six in verse number six, it says, and these words which command thee this day shall be in thine heart. And thou shall teach them diligently unto thy children and shall talk of them when thou sittest in thine house and when thou walkest by the way and when thou liest down and when thou risest up. Look, the keeper at home is the one who has the main responsibility for verse number seven to teach the children diligently verse number six, which is the law, which is the Bible. Okay, now look, can teachers be dumb? Yes, it's possible. Should teachers be dumb? Should teachers be ignorant? We talked about this, you know, a couple sermons ago on Jordan Peterson. A good teacher, you know, will be able to have a lot of knowledge about something and be able to explain something that is very complicated in a simple way. They will be able to impart, in summary, a good teacher will be able to successfully impart knowledge that they have onto who they are trying to teach. This is the goal of the woman in the home of the woman in the church. So how could you teach the law, ladies, if you don't know it? How could you teach the Bible to younger women? How could you teach the Bible to your children if you have no idea what it says? Look, reading the Bible is super important for women in the church. Understanding the law of God is super important if you wanna be a good teacher, as the Bible says that you should. Teachers, a Titus chapter two says teachers of good things, good things. What's a better teacher? Someone that knows a lot or someone that knows a little. Women need to be in their Bibles just as much as men. You know, the Bible says that men are to be the leaders, that men are to lead the church, men are to be the pastors, but that does not let you off the hook, ladies, you need to be in your Bible, you need to be reading your Bible, because you are to teach people as well. You're just not to be a leader in the church. The Bible literally commands women to be teachers in Titus chapter two. By that very definition, they need to be wise if they wanna be good at that role. Look, this idea of Deuteronomy chapter six, that we are going to have our, we're gonna be saved, we're gonna follow the biblical model for the family, we're gonna have our wives stay home and raise our children and teach our children the Bible. Look, this idea that these ladies are gonna stay home, they're gonna keep the home, they're gonna teach the children, and they're somehow gonna take this Bible knowledge that they have and put this onto what we're seeing in the world as these kids grow up. This is not a simple thing to do. If you think that this is simple, I hope I scare you, especially young ladies or ladies that are still teaching kids this evening, I hope I scare you a little bit because this is a hard thing to do. This culture's gone insane, but the Bible makes sense of all of it. You need to know the Bible in and out. And then, as your kids, these kids, they are going to, from the time that they are four years old to the time that they are 12, 13 years old, you know what they're gonna do? It's constant questions outside of school, outside of the subjects in school that you're teaching them every day. It's just, what about this? What about this? What about this? What about that? I mean, it's just constant questions. Look, you need to have the answers because once they're 13, 14 years old, look, they need to have some buy-in on the why you're doing things this way. They need figuring out and getting buy-in along the lines of why we're living this life the way we're living. And there's more than just being saved, folks. They're gonna get saved when they're six, seven years old if you're doing things right. But you need to be able to impart a biblical worldview on these children. It is not the simplest thing to do and it takes a lot of knowledge of the Bible to do it. There's good teachers and there's bad teachers. We all know this, all right? It is a huge responsibility.   It can happen. They can be saved and never come to church again once they turn 18, 19 years old. Happens all the time. Turn back to 1 Timothy chapter two. Go back to 1 Timothy chapter two. Let's get back to a woman's role. Let's look at the woman's role in the church. A woman's role in the church. So a woman has a huge responsibility in the family. Look at 1 Timothy chapter two. 1 Timothy chapter two, look at verse number nine. Keep your place in 1 Timothy two. We're gonna be here for a few minutes. So even when we flip to 1 Timothy chapter five, keep your place in 1 Timothy chapter two. Look at 1 Timothy chapter two. Look at verse number nine. It says, in like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shame-facedness and sobriety, some of the same things that we saw already in Titus chapter two, not with broided hair or gold or pearls or costly array. You know, look, this is not saying, look, this is not, because I've seen some people take this to like some weird, weird extreme, okay? This is simply saying, look, I am very happy that my wife and my daughter like to look nice and they like to go out and I work very hard so they can buy clothing that looks nice, that's not what this is talking about. This is talking about people that just want to dress themselves up in a bunch of gold and jewelry and look at how rich I am. That's what this is talking about, all right? It's basically braggy. They're braggy with what they wear. It says, look, they should just be, they should be, you know, humble. They should dress in a humble way. Look at verse number 10, but which become with women professing godliness with good works. So this is just talking about a woman that has, you know, a professional, mature look and, you know, she's got mature behavior. Now go to 1 Timothy chapter five.  Look at 1 Timothy chapter five. Look at verse number 13. This is talking about why, you know, women should be married and they shouldn't just, you know, do nothing, all right? The younger women especially should be married. Look at verse number 13. It says, and with all they learn to be idle. This is saying, look, if they don't, if they don't go and get married and do all these things that we're talking about, they'll learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. This goes for men and women, by the way. If you're doing nothing and you have nothing to do, you're just gonna get in trouble.  And look, it's always the people in the church that have no jobs, that have nothing to do, that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing that are always causing trouble every time. That's what this is talking about. I will therefore, he's like, because of this, I would therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachily.  And look, and you'll find women that maybe they have children and they still don't have anything to do. It's because they're not doing what they're supposed to do. They're not doing what the Bible says they should do. Turn to Proverbs chapter 22. Turn to Proverbs chapter 22. Proverbs chapter 22. And then look what it says at the end of, let me just read it for you. You turn to Proverbs chapter 22, but the Bible says at 1 Timothy 5 and verse 14 at the end of the verse, it says, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachily. You know what that says? You know what that means? That means that ladies, as much as I sit here and I just rip the guys up and down about how they're supposed to be honest and hardworking and all these things, the Bible here is saying, look, you should have a good reputation too. It's saying you should have a good name. Look at Proverbs 22. Look at verse number one. Proverbs 22, look at verse number one. A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches and loving favor rather than silver and gold. Now, I don't understand why, but ladies, you need to underline this in your Bible as well because you are supposed to have a good name as well. I don't understand why nobody cares about their reputation today. People don't seem to care.  A good name will take you years to build and you can lose it in one hour. You can lose it in one day and then it would take you another years to get it back. The Bible is saying in 1 Timothy chapter, at 1 Timothy chapter five, it's saying women, you should care about your reputation too. Women, you should have a good testimony too. Just as much as the men. Having a good testimony is better than gold, the Bible says. It's huge and it's tough. It's tough. It takes diligence. It takes being reliable. Look, I can't just meet you in one minute and say I'm the greatest guy ever and I'm super reliable and I'm just this best Christian ever. Look, I have to prove that to people. You have to see that through my works over time, through my diligence and then maybe I have a chance through just my honesty and my work and my reliability to have a good name.  I don't know why people don't care about this today. It seems like people are just willing to throw their name away for nothing. It's crazy. But the Bible says we should care and ladies, you should care too. You should care about having a good name. Now go back to 1st Timothy chapter two. Go back to 1st Timothy chapter two. So the Bible is saying that your reputation, how you act ladies is important. Look at 1st Timothy chapter two, look at verse number 11. 1st Timothy chapter two, look at verse number 11. Now the Bible says this. It says, look, and this is what just people just ignore. Nobody would preach this today. Nobody that is just, you know, this is what preachers read and they're just like, oh man, can't preach that. But look what the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2, 11. It says, let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. Look at verse 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man. This is talking about to teach a man nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Turn to 1st Corinthians chapter 14. 1st Corinthians chapter 14. So look, God is explaining two things here. Okay, God is explaining two things in 1st Timothy chapter two. First of all, he's just explaining church management. He's explaining, here's how I want the structure of the church to look. He's saying, the women, I want them to have this role. They can teach the younger women, they can teach the children, the men that are not to be taught by the women. God is laying out the leadership of the church here. And look, he's also saying, by not saying it, by saying this to the women, he's saying, men, you are to lead the church. Men, you are to lead your families. Look at 1st Corinthians chapter 14. Look at verse number 34. I mean, a woman is supposed to be quiet in the church and be silent in the church. This is why women don't amen here, by the way. This is why you'll hear the men amen-ing in a Bible-believing Baptist church and you won't hear the women doing that because the women are supposed to be silent in the church. Well, what if the woman has a question? What if the woman has a question about the Bible? Look at verse 34 of 1st Corinthians chapter 14. 1st Corinthians chapter 14 of verse 34. The Bible says, let your women keep silent in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience as also say at the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. That means that if they have a question about something, they should ask their husbands at home for it is a shame for the woman to speak in the church. So look, the Bible here is saying is that by saying that the woman should ask their husbands at home, you know what the Bible is saying? Is that the men should be the spiritual leader of the house. That's what it's saying. Right, the man should, and guess what? Sorry guys, you know what that means? You need to know what the Bible says too.  You know, I don't know. You know what, I've actually had that question asked to me before I was ordained.  He doesn't know what the Bible says. What am I supposed to do then?   You are to be the spiritual leader of your house. You should know more of the Bible than your wife. You should be reading the Bible so you can teach the Bible to your family. This isn't rocket surgery. Need to understand what you're teaching. And if they're coming to you and they're asking you a question, you better research it and get an answer. Don't be like one of these pastors that you hear about that gets asked a question and just like, ah, you know, never answers the person.  You study it out, you figure it out. Have a Bible study about it.  That's what the Bible's saying here. When the Bible is giving this advice to women, it is really telling you men you need to lead your home is what it's saying. Now look, this, if I had to just categorize the failures that I've seen over the last several years, you take a family that just drops out of the Christian life, that just, they were in it to win it and they drop out of the Christian life. I'm sorry, I gotta beat up on the guys a little bit, but this is the, if I had to categorize it, I bet you other pastors that are friends of ours would agree with me on this, but I don't wanna put words in anybody's mouth. The number one cause of families dropping out of this Christian life is the man is not leading the home. That is what I have seen. And you can put all kinds of problems underneath that category, but if the man, and guess what guys, guys, if you're not leading your home and your wife is the spiritual leader of your home, everybody knows it. And you know that's true. Every single person that knows you knows it and it is the number one thing that will get your whole family to drop out of the Christian life. I've seen this one thing destroy the Christian life for families, for wives. And guess what?  Because of that, men, you must lead your home spiritually. Turn back to First Timothy chapter three. So what's today's narrative? Today's narrative, look, did you know that in 2016, which is the last statistic that I could find, in 2016 21% of the pastors in the United States were women, what in the world? And look at First Timothy chapter three. Look, you can already, by definition, you can say that those women don't believe the Bible. Just as taking the role of a pastor as a woman. Look at First Timothy chapter three. Look what the Bible says in verse number one. This is a true saying. If a man desired the office of a bishop, he desired the good work. A bishop, this is the same as a pastor, okay? A bishop must be blameless. The husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous. One that rule well his house, having his children in subjection with all gravity. First five, for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? Not a novice, less being filled up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, verse seven, he must have a good report of them which are without, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. In seven verses, we see 11 mentions of how this is a man. You think that that's something important that God wants to get across? 11 times in seven verses, we see that a pastor is supposed to be a man. But they just throw the Bible out the window because of the culture of today. Back to women, women's role in the church. So they're to be mature, they're to be holy, they're to be meek, they're to be silent, they're to be obedient to their husbands, they're to be teachers to the young women, teachers to the children. That's what the Bible says. Truthful, you know, drunks, teachers of good things, not gossips, not busybodies, keepers at home, they're to guide the home. Which you know, those two things right there, guiding the home and keepers at home. Read Proverbs 31, that's a lot of work. That's a lot of work right there. What does the world say about this? That's what the Bible says. What does the world say? Now this is one of the most irritating things to me in our culture today because the world, the world will look at a biblical teaching like this. That we believe that my wife should stay home and she should raise my children and she should teach my children and she should guide the home. The world will put less value on this.  Look, that's the opposite of what's true.  As if keeping the home, feeding the family, I don't know, raising the next generation is that that's a small, unimportant thing. It's actually, everything feminism teaches, by the way, is bad for women. Every single thing that feminism pushes today is bad for women, it hurts women. Think about abortion for a second. Think about abortion for a second.  It does nothing but destroy them physically. It does nothing but destroy them emotionally.  They realize that those wicked people at the clinic, those wicked people at Planned Parenthood lied to them, and that was their child.   And they realize they meet the family of the person that they murdered when they were 16, 17, maybe they were high, maybe they were drunk, and they realize that comes rushing back to them and they see the family of this kid or this child that they killed. Imagine the guilt that somebody like that would go through.  And then she goes on with her life and she gets married and she starts having children of her own and then she realizes 10, 15 years down the road that she has committed murder except as she looks at her own children sitting next to her. She realizes that she murdered her own child. Imagine, now you imagine that person. Yeah, but you're like, yeah, but we're saved. God can forgive everything. You can get saved and that murder can be forgiven, true. But you know that most of these women are not saved.  And that's why it messes them up so bad because they never, I've met women like this. I've met women like this out soul winning and I've had women like this break down in tears and tell me I'm a murderer.  And then you know, look, we have the answer. We have the gospel. There's forgiveness. But it doesn't take away the fact that abortion is destroying women. Abortion is bad for women. Everything, feminism, all that to say this folks, everything that the world is teaching about a woman's role, about what, you know, a housewife is degrading. No, a woman that stays home and raises her children like the Bible says she should, that teaches her children the law, that raises strong Christian children is protecting this country, is protecting your family. Look, they are the saviors of the next generation. I'm just going to work and get in a paycheck. Who cares? I'm just going to work and trying to scrape up some money to keep this machine of my family going. What in the world? It's her that is the important one. It is her that makes all the difference. When she sits home and she studies the Bible and she spends hours and hours and hours making sure that her children are raised with a world-class education and a biblical worldview and they will become 18, 19, 20-year-old kids who are just strong Christians that can take anything that is coming at them. That is the important thing. And the world tells us that that is nothing.  Everything that this world teaches women is wrong. This world will teach women that they are there to go out and they are to dress like prostitutes.   Women are the heart of the biblical family. Men, you are to lead that family. Look, this is God's design, folks. Stick to it. It is God's management of the family, of the church. Do it his way. Do it his way. There's this weird philosophy today. There's this weird philosophy today that because God says, do it this way, I must do it the other way and prove him wrong. It's weird. It's a weird philosophy by doing the opposite. Look, you know what? You know what, ladies? You could go out and you could be very successful out in the working world. Women are intelligent.  My wife is very smart. I don't know about your wife's but my wife is very smart. And I appreciate her counsel. I appreciate her knowledge of the Bible. I appreciate the education that she's providing to my children. I appreciate the support and the help meet that she is to me. This has nothing to do with it. You could go out and you could have successful careers. It's not about what you can do. It's about what God wants you to do. It's about God's design, folks. So, you know, turn to Proverbs chapter 16.  God says, do it this way. But you know what? I can make it work by doing it my way. But I mean, look, look at Proverbs chapter 16. Proverbs chapter 16, look at verse number nine. The Bible says, a man's heart devises his way but the Lord directed his steps. Turn to Jeremiah chapter 10. Jeremiah chapter 10. Well, you could go out and you could send your wife to work.  You could go, I mean, look, it's possible. People do this. It's possible. It can be done, folks. I can kick against the pricks in my Christian life and so can you. Look at Jeremiah chapter 10, though. And look at verse number 23. Jeremiah chapter 10, verse 23. The Bible says, oh, Lord, I know that the way of the man is not in himself. It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. You know what that means? It says, the way of man is not in himself. Look, the way I should go is not in me. It's not what I wanna do. You know where the way of man is? The way I should go, it's right here. Is what this is saying. And look at verse number 24. It says, look, if I do start thinking that my way, that my way is the way that I should go, verse 24, oh, Lord, correct me. But with judgment, not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. He's saying, he's saying here, he's saying, if I start to think that I can direct my own steps, God correct me. He's like, but do it nicely.  Because look, the way that we think is right, look at what's going on out here. Jeremiah 29, 11 says, for I know the thoughts that I think towards you sayeth the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil. To give you an expected end, that's really the key right there.   And guess what?  You know what? They'll have more money. They'll have more money. They'll have nicer cars. They'll have a bigger house. All this, and they'll have kids that go the way they went and they don't care. Whatever, that's life, but that will not work for you. That will not work for God's people. You had better do it God's way if you want God's results. And look, I guarantee you, if you do it God's way, you will get God's results. Too many people come and they just pick and choose from the Bible. That's one thing that I never really saw as a church member that I really see as a pastor. I really see as a church leader is people just pick and choose. Turn back to Revelation chapter two. People just pick and choose from the Bible. That is not going to work. You are not going to get the expected end unless you follow God's plan. Go back to Revelation chapter two. Let's finish up the advice to Thyatira. So we follow what the Bible says for God's management of the family and God's management of the church. That is what God is saying here. And he says in verse number 21, and I gave her space to repent of her fornication and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed and then they'll commit adultery with her in great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.  There's that judgment. There's that end that's going to come when you just, when you get away from God's plan. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira as many as have not this doctrine in which have not known the depths of Satan as they speak, I will put upon you none other burden. He's saying, look to the people that aren't involved in this is I am not talking to you. Look at verse 25, but they which have already hold fast till I come. But they which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that over cometh, we know what that means, that means to be saved and keepeth my works unto the end. To him will I give power over the nations. Turn to Revelation chapter 20 in verse number six. Did you know that as a saved person you will rule and reign with Christ one day? Look at Revelation chapter 20 and look at verse number six. The Bible says, blessed and holy as he that hath part in the first resurrection, that's you, on such the second death hath no power. But they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years. We will reign with Jesus Christ in the millennial reign. What a wonderful thing to think about. Look at verse 27 of Revelation chapter 2. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron. As the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers even as I received of my father. And then verse 28, super interesting. And I will give him, this is the person who's saved. I will give him the morning star. Now what is the morning star? Turn to Isaiah. Actually turn to Revelation chapter 22. Anyone have an NIV tonight? I hope not. Now look at Revelation chapter 22. Look at verse number 16. The Bible says in Revelation 2.28 it says, and I will give him the morning star. All right, as we rule and reign and to those that are saved, we'll get the morning star. Look at Revelation 22.16. I, Jesus, the Bible says, have sent my angel to testify into you these things in the churches. I am the root of the offspring of David and the bright and morning star. The morning star is Jesus. The morning star is Jesus. Now turn to Isaiah chapter 14. And look at verse number 12. Isaiah chapter 14 in verse number 12. I'm just gonna give you a little tidbit to end the servants tonight on why you need the King James Bible. All right, this is a pretty big one. All right, look, I can't really preach one sermon on King James Bible-ism because they're just too much. So what I try to do is whenever we come across something that's been seriously corrupted by the other Bible verses, I just try to point that out to you. So make sure you make note of these in your Bible. Look at Isaiah 14 in verse number 12. So Revelation chapter 2. Revelation chapter 22 says that Jesus is the morning star. Look at Isaiah chapter 14 in verse number 12 in King James Bible. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer? We were talking about Satan right here. Son of the morning. How art thou cut to the ground which did weaken the nations? Now let me read for you Isaiah 14, 12 in the NIV and many other newer Bible versions. Notice how it says, O Lucifer, son of the morning. Jesus is the morning star. Son of the morning, morning star, different things. Look at, I'm gonna read for you Isaiah 14, 12 in the NIV. How have you fallen from heaven, morning star? Son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth. You have once laid low the nations. And then you would say, oh well maybe the NIV changes Revelation 22, 16. So the morning star in Revelation chapter 22, 16 is a different name. Here's Revelation 22, 16 from the NIV. I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give to you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David and the bright morning star.  But the NIV here is calling Jesus Christ and Satan the exact same name in its own pages. Look, it is important that, and look, this really throws people off.  It's confusing.  You're like, yeah, but who would equate Jesus and Satan? Like there's no doctrines that would ever, you know, take that seriously like Jesus and Satan could be, I don't know, brothers like the Mormons. Look, this is where all this garbage comes from. It's just messed up Bible versions. They just have errors everywhere. And I look, I don't think these errors are accidents, by the way, I don't think it's an accident to equate Jesus Christ with Satan. Okay, so look, that's why we're King James only. Just one small reason. Look at verse number 29 of Revelation chapter two to finish up. He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear. There we are. What the Spirit saith unto the churches. So look, in conclusion tonight, look, the church at Thyatira was not following God's plan, God's management for men and women in the church. And look what happened. They were going into fornication, idolatry. Look, God's plan is perfect. We need to follow it. Turn to Isaiah 55. Turn to Isaiah chapter 55. Isaiah chapter 55. And look at verse number eight. We need to understand that whenever we see anything, because look, it's not gonna be just this thing. It's not gonna just be feminism versus what the Bible says.  I just heard this one today.   We value women more than what the world does. Look, the Bible values women and puts them in the most important role. If there is one role that was failed in the Old Testament over and over and over again, it was how do you get this next generation to understand and follow the word of the Lord? Now the people that were in the battle in the Joshua generation, they did great. How do we raise a next generation that follows the Lord with their life? This is how you do it. And the women are the key part of that role.  It's never gonna work. We just, and look, here's the thing. You don't even have to think about all these things. All you have to do is just read what the Bible says, trust it and do it. That's all you have to do. Look at Isaiah 5, 55 and verse number eight. The Bible says, for my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways my ways. Sayeth the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. You don't even have to understand it. You know what? You're not gonna understand everything. Just trust, as you trusted on Jesus Christ, who by the way is the word of God, just trust what the Bible says and just do it and then you will get the results that God promises you. Let's bow our heads and have a word of prayer.


Welcome to JSA TV Europe and our live today event on 2023 predictions. I'm Jean-Marc Liman. Joining me today is Barry Cross Who is the global lead of data sensors that is in the digital infrastructure practice at BCLP? Barry always a pleasure speaking to you Nice to you too. Let's shout through the biggest regulatory and legal challenges and changes That the sector has seen this year. So I mean, I'll give the floor to you Talk us through everything that has been going on over the last 12 months Across Europe, UK The practice that you covered basically Yeah, I mean that what what a what a year it's been we've seen massive global Changes and and some real tremors going through the through the world and I guess where do you start the pace of change? Has never been quicker in in the world generally and in the digital space in particular and Interesting on the regulatory side the industry is often impacted by changes that aren't targeted specifically at the industry And a good example of that is obviously energy and all the challenges that energy has has faced and in some ways quasi Regulations and we just need to look at the various moratorium They're being on data-sensitive development either official or unofficial ones Amsterdam comes to mind as well as as Dublin Ireland people been talking in the German market as well about the limitations that are being placed on data-sensitive element But in some ways, I think in this year the the regulatory impact that jumps at me the most is sanctions You know and that's possibly one that people wouldn't have thought of but sang the sanctions that we've seen Have such a pervasive impact across everything that we've been doing the care that one has to take when undertaking M&A Just no one investment financing to ensure that you're not reaching sanctions your your supply chains The actually the the implications of sanctions go far wider than people Realize and indeed we've been involved in transactions in Europe where ultimately those transactions transactions have Fallen apart because of a concern that there may be a sanctions issue in relation to those transactions With those deals More tourism Europe No, they're in mainstream Europe as well And it can be as simple as there's just a customer or a supplier where there's a question mark and depending on the risk Approach of the individual funder or the investor There's a decision to be made what what view do you take on on that? Can you get the information that gets you comfortable and not get the information that gets you comfortable? Okay, interesting. Um, I mean maybe build off a playing question that doesn't have an answer at this stage at this time in place but How do you expect that to change next year? Is it too early to talk about even those things? Well, it's a it's it's very hard to predict where we're going to go Um in terms of further sanctions, I guess Hopefully that's not going to be necessary. I think in the wider regulatory sphere this this seems a little doubt that that ESG Sustainability remains very high on the agenda is clearly no longer simply for the data center space anyway about purely power water is Becoming an increasingly important factor and we had the announcement in in the uk around temps water looking into water consumption, I think With the collapse of ftx Crypto is now very much under the under the limelight will we see more regulatory action taken in relation to to crypto as a result? And and then it's important to recognize that the data center space Some of the biggest players in them have much wider businesses are hyperscales in in particular And to what extent are those businesses going to be under the microscope from a regulated perspective? The competition issues that that are always being talked about And then there's the foreign direct investment and the controls on foreign direct investment We've already seen the impact of that Over the last year, but I think that that is going to be a theme that is going to Continue there is a level of protectionism coming into the world That is driven by concern over Should we say unfriendly foreign players? but also I think a more nationalistic attitude that we're seeing across the world Obviously, we've had brexit in in the uk But even within europe itself the individual countries are each looking at their own protectionist regimes and trying to work out what what do they need to do to protect themselves And to protect jobs and to protect their own economies in a very challenging world I mean the the landscape has really changed over the course of this year To levels we haven't seen in decades. So it will definitely be There'll there'll be a lot of things skating down towards the data center space next year And from all the competition we've been having regulatory does seem to be a big topic For next year with everything out of brussels It basically mentioned the hyperscale is And how because they do have a far-reaching business model It's not just data centers that kind of just is the base of the wider business But the EU does like a little bit of their pieces sometimes Especially when it comes to data protection um, how would you expect that to change and Not change, but like how do you expect it to go next year? Are we going to see brussels trying to bite a little bit out of facebook or meta? Out of google microsoft A little bit more we have all these sovereign clouds coming up in europe as well. We have guy x Which in part is meant to to fight back some of those guys What's your view in that? I think that There there is a there is Clearly a fee. Um, they they are very big They're very big targets from a from a tech perspective from a gd perspective There is clearly A view within Europe regarding sure that the the the individual is protected And and I think it's unlikely that that is going to suddenly stop We'll see escalation of that. I think is a is allowed to predict I shouldn't want to suggest that that we will see an escalation But I I do think we will certainly see more of the same It's a continuing theme that the there is a battle going on to some extent between the raters actually Um, and it's all industry really they're struggling to work out What is the right level of protection? And getting the back you've got to remember that that these businesses are Really integral to society and that means integral to the So we we have a very very very difficult line to tread In the world today in terms of making sure that we don't strangle commerce in the name of What we think is the individual privacy individuals right incredibly important, but uh, but We also need to ensure that we can have trade as well on exactly the line that the the EU are trying to get right Okay, and then based on the work that you're doing and maybe what you've got coming up Next year. How have things changed around sustainability? You've already briefly mentioned um sustainability and regulation especially around sustainability um, but the constitution On renewables and sustainability esg changing a lot And there's more regulation coming in especially in the second half of next year How are your clients or the the customers you work with? Addressing those or reacting to those is it making life a lot harder? It's not making life more interesting um What what we're certainly seeing is the the market particularly around the the funding The funding the funding market is maturing. Um, I think it's important to understand That there are different types of of funding and and investing on a on a green basis You obviously have the the concept of the green loan, which is generally more project Aimed at a specific project as opposed to more sustainability link loans Um, which are more about making the the borrower more sustainable through through incentives Uh, fundamentally sustainability is really hard. It's really challenging and because if it was easy We wouldn't be having lots of global conferences trying to work out how on earth Do we do what needs to be done in order to fundamentally save the planet? And it's hard because it's also very difficult to measure. Um, and and everything has its own challenges What does success look like on an individual basis? And um, frankly, what happens if it's if an individual project Or a loan seeking to improve sustainability Isn't successful and I think all all the regulations around it Are there for that purpose to try and ensure that there is a level of honesty Um And it does it does create challenges for businesses. Yeah, what I said is interesting It is a further layer of bureaucracy Which is uh, which is important Uh to recognize In terms of what we're doing I think the the clear relationship between data centers in particular as massive power users And the power creators the power generators is an obvious area and work that we've done recently with energy for example In its arrangements with microsoft And are a great example of how power users and power producers come work together To help significantly move the dial in the renewable space and and start achieving Real movement towards the net zero that we need Interesting picking up now on on the practice itself that you will see What's what's the plans for the division in terms of countries teams stuff And so now more on the business side of bclp as opposed to the industry regulation Yeah, so that we've had a we've we've had a great 2022 we've we've grown with significant hires both in France and in germany And and that's paying real dividends for us with lots of new and exciting work flowing in both in the in the digital space But also the the wider tech and power and energy Space as well. I think our our sectoral focus means that we've got great bent strength in the digital space across the corporate finance real estate M&A And we're we're looking to capitalize on that and do more multinational deals working with our preferred firms in in all the other jurisdictions And and unlike I think a lot of our firms in the space where the focus is very much at the M&A High level we we're looking at both the M&A of finance and at the asset level We like to get our hands dirty quite literally in terms of the Feeling the the assets working on those assets as they're being developed from the ground up and fundamentally We love this space. We feel we can make a difference in it. We love talking about her and the people in it Because for us it is all about the people the people is what makes the industry and it's people That will ultimately drive the change that we need to see It's still the human capital. That's so important on top of it all Um, I'm going to ask you if there wasn't one question that didn't ask you What would that question be? Oh, that's a that's a real curve ball. Um Normally the question most people want to ask is what what would I be doing if if I wasn't doing this I think a question is is really around what what do we with the current economic climate that we have Where do we see the the sort of the at the M&A space going in the digital space? Because I think that there are questions over clearly the wider M&A space faces challenges Um, so it's it's whether or not those same challenges that we felt in in the digital space Especially with the cost of capital, um And then I guess the last question is what would you be doing if you weren't doing this? I honestly, um, you wanted to be asked that question Yeah, I know if it wasn't If if if I could literally do anything I wanted I'd probably Boringly enough be spending my time sitting learning Jewish law More than anything else But if I if it was a career change I'd probably stay in the data center industry and probably be involved in in building data centers because I love it. I think it's great Okay, I was just playing for something more like music cinema something completely I'm far too uncultured for anything like that. Yeah Oh, well join the group Very as always is a pleasure speaking to you As for our viewers, thank you for tuning in to JSA TV live Don't forget to check our social channels for more content until next time. Happy networking Thank you


I had to walk the table to fit in the 50 characters because it was much much longer and I used every allowed character for that. So I work at Red Hat but there is no Red Hat logo in the presentation because I work at Corporate Fingy. I've been involved with software for quite a while and currently I'm doing technical writer stuff which is new for me and I'm doing that for Eclipse Che which is an idea for for the cloud. I've been in a bunch of communities before and from this past I have some tools on some manner of doing things that makes that I'm not a normal technical writer. I'm really sorry about it. And I changed the name of my jobs but basically it's always the same. You are paid to do something that you don't know anything about but at the end you explain to people how they should do it. So a little bit of context. Now we have some upstream project which is called Eclipse Che and we are not talking about the project but about the documentation. So the documentation is AsciiDoc with some injection inside of it and it's transformed into a HTML to make a website and it's also transformed into a web archive to be embedded into the application. Good. So far so good. And we have a downstream product which is called CodeReady Workspaces and I issue where we are a couple of hours ago. You are explaining how we do our product documentation and how that. So basically he said it all. I don't have to put some details on it now. That's perfect. A perfect day. And so basically we take AsciiDoc to transform it into XML, into Dogbook XML and at the end we get HTML, APub and pf. So that's the starting point and the output. Good. When I was asked to do some downstreaming we had a script which was there, which was focused on doing that for the previous release and I have an objective to be creative, start from scratch, automate as much as possible and if we can do more one release with the script it would be awesome. And another useful information.  So we have two writers full time and three other people who have maybe one day a week to help us. And on the other side we have lots of developers. Until this morning I thought there were 50 plus. It seems they are less but they are still doing a lot of things. So they are doing fast and they are changing every day what they are doing and they don't tell you they forget that it's documented somewhere. So that's the context. That's moving target. This guy made a wonderful presentation about what it is to live in this context where you're not sure. Maybe it was right yesterday. Maybe today it changed. You don't know. And so let's take the stream metaphor. That's upstream. So we are getting in the stream. And that's how we want to have downstream. Where everything is already done upstream and we don't have to do anything anymore. So luckily we start from a project which has already decided to go for modular documentation. It means we have files organized in assemblies and modules, modules which are concepts, procedures or reference modules. You can look at the talk from Yaronia before if you want to have more information about that. And we are using ASCII doc and we will massively use some of the features that we have inside of it. It is to include files and it is to have some attributes to have different contents depending on the context. We have also some tools. So we have a tool which is called NewDoc and which is a really awesome tool because if you look at the modular documentation thingy you must do this and this and this and that. It's a lot. NewDoc, it's just you do NewDoc minus, minus procedure and you get the title of your procedure and you have a template with everything inside of it, all the attributes that you need, all the stuff that you don't have to think about it anymore. It's automated. It's okay. And you can concentrate just on the content. Problem, yes. The writers know that this tool exists. The contributors don't. So what do we have to do now? And that's currently one challenge of the project is to raise awareness of this tool is existing for the people who are contributing. So how we will do it, future will tell. Now it's just we know that it sucks and we know that we have to improve on that. Over tool, TestDoc, that's also a really good tool because once you have, at the beginning we have a template. The template at the beginning is very fine and is particularly correct. But then you write stuff or the contributors or the people who are writing stuff and at the end it's an S and it doesn't build and you will discover it too late, always too late. So this tool, same thing, same problem is the writers, the professional writers have knowledge of this tool and they use it and now what we have to do is to raise awareness in the community so that people are able to use it and at the moment, for example, to install it, there is no automated process to install it. So there are some improvements. That's the tool that comes from my previous job is I was working on a monocle project and they use a tool which is a Python tool to automate testing and there is a, it's easy to configure, it's much more easy to use than a bash script and you have an output that you can handle correctly. So for me, the main feature of TOX is that you write a unique file which is something that is not complicated to write even for a non-engineer guy and that when you run it, you have an output where when the output is not necessary, so when it builds, you have zero output, except it works. And when you have a problem, then you have thousands of lines of garbage with one useful information inside. So that's to prove that it's not so complicated to use TOX. So I'm sorry, it's late in the day, we'll have bleeding eyes at the end but there is a lot of code here. So basically that's all the commands that we want to run to build our downstream documentation and we want to validate as much thing as possible. We use more validation tools as necessary but it's just if one validation tool fails, we want to have the other one react correctly. So basically we do all of that. Maybe I will not be very detailed on what the tools are. And the output for all of that is just okay, it builds and it's five line of output so your eyes are not too much tired of seeing that. So automating the building of the guys and removing the output when it's okay, that was the first step. Second step is we have the upstream documentation and we want to transform it to the downstream documentation. And for that we have one script which is currently a batch script which does all sorts of things that I will be in detail later and what we want to do is we execute that script and then we build the documentation. And thanks to TOX we have things that get really separated so all the stuff that we have done before automating the building documentation we can use it here as a modular step in the downstreaming process. And that's something where the three dots here normally it's a thousand lines of output to tell you where it did fail. It doesn't fit in the stream. So I removed it. But basically here we know that currently and that's the situation as of today if we don't stream the eclipsed documentation, the installation guide is building, the mid discussion guide is building and the end user guide is broken and it happens every day. So that's one of the challenges now. It's building upstream. It's broken downstream. And the last one is to have the same tool able to get a fresher version of upstream into the downstream stuff. So this one is easy stuff. And there is nothing special about it. So now that's cool because we have, let's say for the major structure we have one tool that does the job and that is quite okay for the eyes. And that's, let's get a little bit more in detail into this filter script. So what we want is that we have some ASCII doc modules. We have all of these modules that are grouped to make a full user story or a full guide. And what we want is at the end some complete title with a lot of inputs. Good. That's what we want. What we have is Jekil Yamel. So it's that kind of stuff. So sometimes you have a navigation where the chapter is only one part and sometimes you have some folder items. So sometimes you go, you are going in the first level. Sometimes you have to go in the second level. That's a problem. The second problem is you are pointing to a URL, not to a file name. It means that you have to find the file name again. So that's something which is not very convenient. But let's say we have to live with it. There are other tools like Antora which are much more easy to downstream because the navigation is using directly the file names. So you don't have to look and search for the file names. So here come also some tooling that I have from my previous slide. So I was doing a lot of Ansible playbooks for five years. So when you do a lot of Ansible playbooks, you do a lot of Jinja. And this time, it was the first time that I was using Jinja directly without Ansible. And basically this bunch of characters is how to pass all the things. So we have to use the manifest Jekyll Jamal to transform it into a manifest almost Askidoc Redefine. And then we have to find in our Askidoc files when they are integrated in the menu. They all have a little header, which is not Askidoc, which is some Jekyll metadata. And the Jekyll metadata that gives us this permalink, which is the final URL for the file. So what we have to do is to get the oldest permalink that we have in every file to guess the file name. That's something that is a tedious work. But we have the tools to do that automatically. So once it's done, you don't have to think about it. And since we have that, we never had a build broken because of these twins. We never had a problem with the Jinja template. We never had a problem with all the set that we have. All the other problems were really structural problems in the content. So that the upstream is very relaxed with the content where you can have missing cross-reference and missing links and missing things. Okay, it builds. And that downstream is not able to cope with that. So we cannot handle having missing cross-references. But that's the previous thing was for the content that is completely present upstream. But we have a guide which is a little bit special, which is the installation guide where all the content is downstream. Or most parts of the content is not present upstream. So for this one, automating is not possible. So you end up with a very static file. And we try to make comments into the downstream repository so that you offer to yourself, remember that, ah, yes, this file, I am able to edit it. And oh, this file, I'm not allowed to edit it. So let's get a little bit closer. So now we have taken all the files from upstream. We have moved them in downstream. That was the first step. Then we have generated the master file, so the file which is taking on all the modules and all the assemblies and putting them together. Now we can start with the contents. So first iteration, we look at all the files that we have now downstream and replace all of the world that is not correct anymore. We have two situations here. We have one part which is quite technical. It is that upstream we have links. And what we want to have downstream is X-reference. So we have to transform the nature of the bits that we have inside. And one of our parts is that we have things like the name of the project, which is not the same downstream. For this one, it's quite, so we have an easy solution. It's that once we have identified all of the stuff that is always moving, we can replace in the upstream documentation directly all the things that we need to change by the attribute. So now the moving bits are dynamic. Then last part is to still have upstream a script that is running and that will, when a contributor will put the non-attribute product name or the non-attribute something, that will replace it by the correct attribute. So let's say it's here is that avoiding a human error by having some automated process to say, hey, no, you don't say Eclipse Shea. You say Prod short. But when you write it, you can still say Eclipse Shea because it's easier to do. You know that then you can run a script that will transform it for you. So make your life easier. And then we have the most complex stuff. It's when it's not in just one line that needs to be changed but a complete check of text. And then for example, these are the example outputs. If you want to show what is the output of a command and the output of a command is completely different upstream and downstream, then you can use inclusion and attributes again and use the project context attribute to do some inclusion that will go over a different file. So that's cool also. Same thing for the screenshots because obviously most of your screenshots will be different because the product name will be different things like that. So that's easy game. That's a lot of work. You can tell about it. But technically speaking, it's just a matter of time identifying the screenshot that you need to change all of that. It's a tedious work but it's something that we can do. And then last thing is that we have some things where putting them in an external file makes things complicated because then if you have to look into your paragraph and then look in a different file and look it again you lose your mind. So in that case we do some things that are maybe less pure but in terms of technicality but which are easier to understand when you are passing the test as a human being. So here the human is still the person who needs to understand what is going on. For now, so the funny thing is that when I started it, I started it in November or October or November and I was thinking I would be ready, it would be completely finished when I do the talk in January. And that's not the case. It means that for now, that's where I am in the downstreaming. We have delivered one major version with that and I believe that we have some new things that will come later. So this is what are the current challenges for me. One is that we fail too late. We fail on the downstream product and each time, for now it's each week we have new requests upstream and we will discover that the content is impossible to build for the downstream product when we are doing the downstreaming. It means each time that you do, we have new content upstream. We want to get it downstream. We launch a script and it breaks and you have to fix it. So now one thing that I would like to do is to make sure everybody is using a new doc to create new modules so that the new content is already correct because it's not human to write the super long idea that we need with your little hands. Second thing is to use the tools that are able to validate the content already upstream. It means that we have to do it. We have to talk with the community so that we get accepted and all of that, it's quite a walk. And one other thing is I'm starting late as a technical writer and passive voice my first month I don't understand when I was doing a pre-request I got 50 remarks of this is not proper English this is your passive voice you have this and that I don't understand what you mean it was hell, it was like you're happy, you have written a super thing and then what you get is just negative feedback because it's not proper English. That's not good. And then now in my editor I have added every linter that I could find that are working on the editor and I follow the advice of all of them once not any linter is saying that it's bad then I will commit that thing and I'm sure that every single person on health will say, yes you're compliant with every style, guys. And now and that's here something that I believe in and maybe I'm completely wrong and maybe I will have to change my mind sooner or later I believe that it would be a nice thing to have leaders working and giving feedback in the upstream curve to do all these basic language check that can be automated because that's basically then you follow all the advice of the linter and you have something that's pretty okay and if the linter is giving you bad advice you follow it and it cannot be wrong so I don't know and that's I'm thinking about it because in my previous job when I was doing uncivil playbooks and when I started to playbooks at some point I was using the molecule project and what's the first thing that they do they are lending your code and they are saying you hey, this is not the way to look and they are thinking that yes but it works okay then follow the linter just follow the linter and it makes your life easier because it's so the content is less personal not a problem and basically you have less a negative feedback when you do a public request so now that's my current situation is okay now we should do that and at the moment I believe that Vale is one of the most active linter in the world I request your feedback from the audience what are you using and I finished very very soon so now it's really time for a discussion so do you use linter which linter are you using do you use no linter and why production I rather just read it a bunch of times and you are a writer professional writer because it seems to me that professional writers don't want linter but developers want linter and who is writing the documentation and the project developers so this is an audience that needs this help more than professional writers they have all the knowledge already they have these magic eyes which detect all the errors I know these are my colleagues for example I come from engineering and I'm blind I'm super blind for these things what's the time of that process of what of lending the time of going through a game where you're making sure that it passes what you think it takes all your life ah demo time so to go that's these things in my editor I have these things which is listening problems and basically it's just I'm getting all these list of things until it's zero and there are a lot which are completely completely okay but then that's easy this one where is it this one quick fix add to folder dictionary this is a little so it's it's a false positive but now it's fixed for the rest of the time so it means that now I should have somewhere some file that was generated that says never bother me again with this thing but so and we have a lot of passive voice it's important because passive voice I use it all of the time I never see it but now I have this little yellow thingy that tell me hey Fabrice you're a bad boy and I see that the spell checker is never happy with all the worlds that are super legit in my so I'm super angry against the spell checker but the the passive voice detector it's setting my ass every day because I'm sorry English is not my primary language so I don't think about I don't think about it the project is already super complex just understanding what I'm talking about so when I'm talking about stuff and just being focused on that is just enough but making sure that my language is correct that's too much I'm a super lazy guy so I want to write and have tools that tell me hey no that's not correct I know that these tools are limited but I prefer to have some let's say the 80% which are really crap and that should never happen on the internet so because each time that I put passive voice into GitHub I feel bad I show to the world that I'm not able to distinguish passive voice from active voice it's a what should I be get fired for it no because you know it's before I started this job that was the thing that was the most difficult for me now I will write English my wife is British I don't understand why she's speaking I said you know not in British English but in some international English that I know the vocabulary I have 300 words of vocabulary it's fine but because now I know that everybody in the world is understanding me because I use 10 words the first time I was doing documentation the documentation was written by a friend who is British and after it was written okay so paragraph number one what are you telling me this is happening it's not happening because it's a native so you use double negation everywhere and he's happy with that I don't know now I see the ground cover of my little girl and when he's speaking and when he's not able to say yes or no but he uses double or triple negation in one sentence which is 5 minutes long to answer to me and say okay was it in yes or no so and it's for me it's the same for me here and in the project we are two full-time writers plus three one day in a week writers and they have 30 or more developers and they should write some documentation for the future they may do it very well but we need to help them because if we don't do that just think that now we are already running like crazy after all the futures and after the documentation they are getting quicker every day we will die because now the backlog at least our backlog in the documentation will go and it's like oh and then exactly what you said what was written two months ago that was for the previous three years because it still works today so we need to have to use better the time for the technical writers we need to use it better and we need not to use our times writing stupid comments on GitHub about hey this is passive voice and arguing about it because that's the answer hey passive voice I don't care the information is here okay you want me to rewrite it and then we rewrite it for them but it means that we will take let's say a massive amount of our workload doing things that they could do by themselves with some assistants like that because they are only using the same editor and and and it makes it's building confidence also because when you see that you have no problems in what you have written you have someone so you have some tool that has validated what you did so you can build up confidence and say I managed to write 10 lines and there is no passive voice and I know that there is no passive voice because these two have told me they didn't detect it so maybe there is one that it was very difficult to find one it means that maybe that's something I believe in and maybe it's not true so I will tell you next year if we manage to implement that and if it works but I believe that this way you can also educate your community and get people to do things that are super afraid of doing and I believe that here I'm using also all my experiences because it's starting with 40 plus to be technical writer they are all super proficient in English and you are like that I understand the tool but when I write a sentence it's boring that's a for me that's something that we and that's changed a little bit the work of technical writer because you are facilitating the work for more people and it's like you are adding more ants to your ants yeah if yeah that's the story of giving a fish and learning to fish and we have tools for that now that's good I think that you also are just saying on the guidelines upstream that you make this part of your process or we go for everything so first thing is we have we have CI running so we have continuous integration so it's first thing is to find the right tool so that's also my question here what is the right tool? I don't know what to follow here because too many writers that are super educated and don't need that but it's like I believe they need a good tool then implementing that so that it works first on my laptop then do a request and tell other people they should use it and then add it as a informative step in the continuous integration and then when it starts to be smooth on and make it an informative step in the continuous integration, it's like if it's positive voice political voice, no, never blocked things like that when we are right there, really it's good and then at least say that's an idea but it's set up the project that it already works on the Eclipse Shea editor where you can add all of these extensions that do the stuff in your editor and then it's easy, it's okay if you want to edit the doc you go on the Shea.openship.io you load this file it will load the documentation it will load an editor with all the plugins that you need to do the meeting and it's done on the it's done directly on the on the work space of the developer and that's yeah, that's really cool because that's this tool is able to enforce a project to help a project enforce the way people are working because nobody can say I didn't see it yeah, okay no, you use our tool so you use Eclipse Shea to write the doc and we have set up everything so that you can write it with some thousands of helpers and then so that's cool for the project because we have one use case where it's the right thing to do and it's empowering the people to work and but on another project it's not an idea but here this use case is just perfect for the project so let's try that I have to convince everybody people in my team the people in the community so there is a lot of work for that but yes and the other thing is docs that's cool because I will show you a complete demo time so that's cool, yeah you don't see everything happening it's but you have the output only for the thing that failed because it's I love continuous integration but what I hate is when you have more than 20,000 lines where you have to search and where I like this to be so that is now I have in my blogs I have only the things where there is the error and it means that one fourth of the output that I have would have normally and there is everything that I need to create a ticket for my colleague here to say hey fix upstream and it's also an easier step for me so to say hey now we can please fix upstream, I can put the logs there are only 200 lines not 2,000 and they can work on it and we can work as a team also and it's the 5 minutes before Q&A we are already in Q&A about questions I don't know how we should use time can you please repeat the question the question is time train to implement all of that I would like to do it in December but in December I had to fix that multiple times every day so I ended up just doing this loop the situation of broken upstream fixing upstream don't worry so now that's currently our program is this one we are spending most of our time fixing upstream so it means that getting these tools working upstream is really very high in the priority for me because it's it's taking less time so it will be different for different tools because our continuous integration is running on Q&A so it means that if we want to integrate things in the continuous integration we need to have things that run in a container so it's the test attack tool for example it's a GitHub project and you need to the installation of the tool is not integrated into the project itself so to create a container for that is just it's not it's not done in two minutes there is not already a container we have to do that so that makes things a little bit so it's more problematic but it's a bash kit so it's basically pasting one file in the right place so it's an easy work it's just creating the right container and then publishing the container in the right place so it means for us so now I have the rights to publish the image for Eclipse chip so already all the bureaucracy to get something published is done and it could be the most time-consuming thing because now if I just publish a new version of our Shadox builder image we have the future and then it's a matter of adding a line in the Toxini file so it's done in half a day something like that for one step for one tool for a veil so for choosing a little I have a problem because it's choosing a little for a project and just when it will be chosen it will be difficult to change afterwards so that's why now I'm asking people what are you using and and because it's now it's now that we will decide and once the decision is made it will be a little bit too late to change to change decision so one thing that I'm currently investigating does someone has implemented the Red Hat Style Guide as a veil test test as a veil test so is someone already done that normally that's how it works in the world if you have one idea there is at least one person with exactly the same idea at the same moment so maybe someone has done that and what I'm currently looking is okay we did that and where is it and if I don't find it I will do it myself but normally it should be it must be somewhere and and because I can't do it the first to have this idea that's not possible I'm not as fast as that is it should exist so it must exist I have to find it or if it doesn't exist I have to do it but it's I'm a lazy person we need to search the time not the space to say what? search the time of the space the time I need to find it in the time yeah sounds like a plan any other question I'm open I find the discussion very interesting so more more from my colleagues how do you decide with the downstream or you just take everything that a few writers do or you pick up something specific that's a bad question so until December we did something which was really easy once it's in a master in the upstream we take it downstream and now we have some new features that are arrived into upstream that are not presented into our downstream products and that's when it starts to be really not a good time in a question of time it means that for every pull request that happens on the upstream we have to read the pull request and we have to say this one we can back to downstream that's a new feature we cannot so we have to set up a process for that we have to start doing that and that was I don't know when you have 50 pull requests in a day to do that sometimes it's how will I do that so like we leave it where it is and we will take we will cherry pick the pull request that are really important to get in the downstream we don't really know how we should do that but we don't know not how to do that but how to get the time to do it completely and correctly for now it's a matter of time if I have to read every pull request and to select all of them it will get completely crazy so that's we have a problem now and same problem as you said that a feature arrives now or later and you have to remember when you have to put it in the documentation that's exactly our problem it's and that's something that you can automate but I don't know how maybe you can how will you do that so you know exactly when you can integrate the feature in the official documentation okay same thing everywhere it's not a perfect science and I believe that nobody expected to be a perfect science and now it's QA time over thank you