Hey Tom Stewart here. I'm with Liz Trotter our guest today is Don Fen and this is smart business moves Don it's been a while since you were here. No that long ago come on come on What's wrong with somebody about going to the next convention we'll see Oh The yeah, the eyes I say shows in Vegas this year and in November. I told him I'm close enough So if you want me to yeah, they'll let me know. Okay, okay Where where are you Don? San Diego actually in Coronado, which is over the bridge. Okay Yeah, how's the weather down there? I have to ask just because no, it's been June gloom Rather made gray and then it'll go into June gloom. So we've had beginning of the year with all the rain We've had really overcast Whole year so far, but we needed the water obviously so it's been a blessing and we'll get to the sunshine it eventually, you know And then it just stays that way until November, so you know We'll take the rain while we can get it Hey, Alexander. Nice to meet you. See you. What are we? What are we talking about today? Don? You always have a lot to teach us and sure I I think the topic was the employee engagement the employee experience, you know Something about getting employees riled up and excited to work Yeah, the whole concept of the whole employee experience, right all the different things so and that's an important thing to Languaging means a lot, right and the languaging of experience We've talked about customer experience client experience CE as the language and goes forever. Okay, and you can almost take any Book on that cross out the word customer client prospect and put in the word applicant or employee There's so many the same principles. In fact much of my what I'll consider Creative stuff around personnel management has come from my study of sales and marketing Okay, the branding on the outside with the same principles applied to the branding on the inside But it took us like 15 years to figure that out You know, I started talking about it more than 20 years ago, you know, so I Remember bringing it on a marketing. I started branding and we just dialogue about how all those principles would apply in internally that was 20 years ago and I feel people are just really Getting on board with this whole idea now Because they don't have an option they don't have a choice Well, the worm has turned as they say, you know and Look, I just finished doing a whole bunch of CEO workshops all around the country on You know on the one thing I do about the emotional intelligence But the other one's on hiring and retention because that still remains an issue The demographics are going to keep us in a stress mode for a very long time We've lost close to 8 million people out of the the workforce between COVID deaths and lack of immigrants and women leaving the workforce and all these people early retiring So there's a big number of people just got removed out of that and yet you have 10 million job openings right now Okay, so it remains a big deal and as soon as we hire somebody we might hire at 4 percent and have turnover 5 percent and have turnover 4 percent so the margin Of progress is very slim in a lot of organizations, you know and so I think we begin at the very top because it always begins at the very top with the owners And what they want as a work experience You know some some owners are so Nally focused on You know just the bottom line because that's the survival mode that I'm in and I this all of this out here is noise to me I got a this is what I really got to focus on And that trickles down. Okay, and and that and somebody will just be in that organization say, okay Then if I if I can make money right now like he's making money right now, I'll do it. Otherwise. I'm going to go someplace else, right? So it's a very narrow A window of opportunity in that type of environment Then you got the opposite end of the spectrum somebody who's a people person That's both really good. Sometimes they're too much of a people person They don't let poor performers go because they have relationships with them. You know, it can get to that extreme, right? Yeah, and so you've got in between there, you know, and we talk a lot about over And from an ownership perspective, your culture is what you choose it to be Simple enough. You're the owner. You choose the culture. Okay, it trickles down from you Um, and I guess half the owners are better at establishing a culture than the other half So let's let's leave it at that statistic, right? And so here you are A worthy employee you you want to get into the business. You know the business and you get into a place where it's a blow average culture Okay, what's the retention opportunity in that environment? Okay, and I'm always worried about people who are willing to work in poor environments and what that says about them Okay, that's they'll tolerate Micro-management and control and ridicule they'll tolerate that other own fear They're not worth enough to go someplace else with it. Whether it's not going to be abused, right? So I like that. That's the first time we've heard that one. Tom. Yeah, really if That's good Don Would you would you even want to hire people that would be willing to work for you? Your culture is bad Yeah, so again, and it's it's kind of funny The other duality around culture, right the duality on culture Is it's both how culture shows up in good times and how it shows up in bad times? The conversation around culture is always around good times It's it's this rah rah concept, right Look at that both. Why rah rah culture put in shoes and boxes, right? I tell you if you can build a culture out of putting shoes and boxes You can build a culture out of anything that is a choice. Okay shoes in boxes, right? You'll need to say anything more than that. Okay. Well, I don't know Don. I'm thinking shoes and boxes or heads in toilets Of course, right Hey, look, you know, again, it's as sexy as you choose to make it. Okay We can do it in our industry Not it look Culture is less about what you do than who you are doing it. Okay All right And one of my remember it's just you got that happy side and you got the challenging side and there's a Guy, I know anthony de male actually had him on one of my webinars years ago former jesuit priest consulted in brooklyn and His definition of culture. He says culture is best defined by how we collectively deal with our shit The best definition of culture i've heard in my life including my personal culture. How do I deal with my shit? Never mind anybody else's, you know, that's where it starts, right? And you know The good buddha say that the culture of your organization comes from you, you know, so That's really the beginning point about this whole experience idea Is what the owner wants to create as an experience, you know, what environment do they want to create for themselves to be enveloped in? They want to make an experience with everybody's really pumped and happy to go to work. Is that meaningful to them? It's more meaningful to to half the people than the other half of the people. I know that much Right. I know that much so when we talk about Engagement, I was I was fortunate enough a little backstory quickly here I was speaking in ohai california, which is north of santa barba Beautiful area and one of the CEOs in the visage group says hey, you're pretty good. You want to meet my wife?  Well, she's the head of leadership and management training for linkedin learning like I want to meet your wife, right? And so she said what all these CEOs talking about and this is about five years ago now I said engagement engagement engagement. She goes. Yes. I want you to do the The movie on engagement the training on engagement Well, I nailed it and I've done 12 more for them and They've been watched over a million times And translate into five languages now Wow So that's a little bit of a and the interesting thing is and I'll we can circle to this in a little bit The interesting thing the one they just had me do which is a real big feather in my cap Is about building the skills based organization Okay, where you hire for skills first before you even look at a resume Because what they're pretty much saying especially where businesses are evolving quickly That experience and titles mean less and less over time just by the very nature They did a study about skills that were asked for on Job descriptions resumes and things like that over the last five years 17 of those skills have disappeared As a requested skill set by employers And if you think about what's happening with AI, what's that going to look like in the months and years ahead? We're not going to get into pipes anytime soon, but there's going to be diagnostic abilities with AI There's going to be there's going to be internet of things tied into AI You know, there's going to be uh early warning systems put it that way with the AI and so it will it will Dramatically affect every organization every industry some faster than others Okay, so it's not some faster than others and and the reality is your industry Progresses slowly with technology You know, it gets on the forefront a little bit with stuff But it's not considered a a tech forward industry by its very nature, right? It's it's a personnel industry by its very nature. Okay But if you look at the the actual mechanics, it's it's very much a logistics business with scheduling and dispatching and There's a lot of opportunity for Technology to create efficiencies. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and nowadays I tell young people I said If you become an expert in one Failed used app in any industry you'll have all the work you want You'll have all the work you want Because all these applications are used at a 10 to 20 percent level people get big companies get work day It's a beast and it's used at 10 to 20 percent level because they don't have anybody trained in using new technology on board And now you've got to find some kind of consultant and see if they can get certified as a consultant Yeah, so if you're a certified consultant in any of these Salesforce work day and any of those types of programs you make 100 grand just to start Just to start So tom, I I guess that's what we're looking for right was a made central certified right and so We're actually working on on some certification programs for the for the software product that that we have kind of the same thing it's Kind of complex solution and there are a lot of people that are using it but Only to some extent not certainly not that's why you have certified quick books consultants and microsoft consultants and all The only one that doesn't do it is work day, which is really interesting You can only be certified if you're using work day, which is I don't know why they've done I still haven't figured that one out, but okay, so going back to You are mentioning this hey, gun you're mentioning the skills-based organization. I don't want to lose that completely I want to come to it because I think in a timeline. Okay, so we're going to start big fiction and we'll go through the Okay, all right. I'll come back to that. Okay, so big picture big picture big picture It Really comes down to the story of who you are Culture is us As a kid we learned culture too for different ways like we learned culture of different Religions or culture of different countries or even cultures of different states right that how people Art music, you know food or clothing the different cultures And it's culture and organization is partially that it's it's ritual. It's it's rules It's it's agreements and people having each other about how to how to get along But the other culture that we learned about as kids Was the stuff you put in a petri dish and to grow the agar in right and culture was a growth medium Which is exactly what a culture isn't an organization as well, right? so it's a combination of both ritual and you know Rules and and how we've developed as a society or religion or organization And the same thing is it's a growth mechanism. What are you going to grow in this thing? Okay? That's that's what culture is as well big picture, right now We want to start By attracting engaged people Okay, we want to start by attracting people who want to be really good at what they do and And show that they can deliver it not just have the skills but the desire to it, right?  Everyone about vendors is a recruiter. We have plenty of opportunities here from people. Okay? So and we'll pay you for those referrals As long as there's no conflict of interest as long as you're not going to get anybody mad for doing it No, we have to pay somebody else to do that work And we'd love to be able to pay you and shorten the time span, you know And so whether it's an employee or third party Have a referral program with enough juice in it to get people to get paid Pass their fear inherent in it The fear somebody might not work out now. It's reflected on me. My job's at risk. Is that worth 500 bucks? Probably not. Okay, so to lose a job But five grand I'm interested An electric bicycle. I'm interested And one of the mistakes we make is we just use cash Uh Electric bike in a lobby and that's person who refers somebody gets this electric bike Refer to people your spouse can have one too We'll get them for the kids. Just keep referring people. Okay No, I How long does a bonus last how long does money last? Electric bike man, if they think about it every day, you know, so Are there like Details in terms of how long if you hire the person they need to be there for a certain way Yeah, this is what I always say it depends on the industry So if you're in a fast food industry where the average turnover is three months Keep somebody for six months. They've been there for a while Right, you can't reward them for the referral at six months. Nobody'll get the reward, right? You got to reward them in the first week, you know, because they know So if it's an engineering firm, you might push it out to a year. Okay So really to me it's dependent on the type of organization And you think about it. You train people how to refer people You can have somebody do a video Tom can do a video. This is what how you language about it This is how you represent us. He has even a qr code You we gave people that you can just have them point point to make it really easy to for them to learn about the company very quickly You know, they can see somebody that's getting good service at the cvs And you know, they're not gonna last there very long because they're too good for that place Here's my card. Here's this, you know, would you like to work for us or make it really easy for people To refer people and let them know What their obligation is it's our obligation to hire somebody It's your obligation to refer somebody that's not like you lose your brother-in-law because your sister wants a matter of the house Okay Here's the criteria that we expect when you refer somebody, right? Okay, and if you refer a legitimate candidate, we're going to reward that if we hire the candidate We're going to reward that and if they stay for a while, we're going to reward that Okay Because that's how to get people in a door and you also have to do a marketing job on your websites It's all about video today And you're going to be hiring down a h from all of us and they're a lot more exposed to video than we've ever been We don't live in that world. We don't understand that world. We think we understand that world But how could we? Okay, because we're not enveloped in it. They're enveloped in video My nephew can't read cursive They didn't learn how to my son can't he's 21. He can't his curse is horrible. They never got trained on writing cursive right Right, but they know video man. Okay, so if i'm trying to draw the eyeballs to some print on the screen You just lost Okay, so we've taken type 60 words a minute with their phones too Yeah, and so look I always tell people three videos three videos three videos three videos One from the owner tom talking about who we are What's special about us where we want to go to this company the opportunities we like to see for our employees The culture the talk track the culture talk track From the CEO because who else is anybody going to trust about that more than the CEO? Okay, they set the standard be the standard show the standard. Okay And remember doing all this stuff constantly reinforces the culture It's immense it when you talk about it. Otherwise, where is it? Okay, I'll show you where it is. Look at that video.  Okay All right, so you ought to be able to say this is what's cool. And again, it's not just about what we do It's who we are while we do it. Okay The zappos model again. Okay, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. They they showed everybody how easy it is It's a choice. Okay. So this is how we choose to show up with each other This is how we choose to show up on the job. This is the praise we share with each other Just what it's like to work here. Okay, and you can have look for the CEO video this this thing It's as good as my dsl at the slr camera Okay So you can get anybody to do that in front of you for five minutes Uploaded a vimeo and sticking in a wordpress plugin and boom is done. Right now the other one somebody's got apple movie They can plant it So what I heard they're done. I want to check and make sure is that that ceo video the owner of the video That should be five minutes No more No more Okay No more because who watches anything from one five minutes, right? Like we should have stopped this 15 minutes ago Yeah That's the funny thing about all my linkedin trainings. They're all modularized So everything is three to five minute You know three categories four videos of three to five minutes under each kind of very modularized the way the learning is And they all have to be stand alone They all have to they all have to stand alone in terms of content. So that's how the learning is now Okay, it's how the learning is So Okay Now we've got the third video and that's testimonials from existing employees Because who's gonna anybody going to trust more about the employee experience than an existing employee Okay, and and what I always say why do we have people testify at church so that people live up to their testimony? I want as many employees testifying as humanly possible on my website The more the better they get them on your social media sites Not just your website when I say website I meet internet. Okay You know so on your facebook page if you got instagram Where where those workers are? Okay, facebook. They're probably not on linkedin. Okay A lot of times I miss the opportunity to have them give us reviews on places like indeed and glass door That's a good place to get your testimonials as well Well, you also have to deal with those reviews and let the bad ones stand there and you know come back in It's kind of funny. I'll give you a different example This guy bread lee out in las vegas. Okay.   All right, it's a training platform and he does very well for himself His glass door people like this guy's misogynist as holy, you know And he's like i'm sorry you can't take this place.  Yeah, they want to be in that environment.  This is it bro Yeah, see if you can handle the heat I feel like that's perfect. He's he's attracting exactly the type of people But that's the point i'm making right here. That's the point i'm making is get It's a good buddha said what comes to you comes from you man. You know, what are you attracting? What are you attracting? Okay So those are the three That we should have on a hiring page what we should also have is a frequently asked questions document So people know what your hiring process is.   I mean these this is instant gratification a lot of the jobs You're from people need a job. They want a job. They you know, I look paycheck to paycheck many of them They they need it now if you snooze on response you're out you're out you know The lead has is like produce it goes bad real quick if you don't Do something it doesn't go bad as quick if it comes from an employee referral now will it? Okay, so more shelf life So now so now we've got so We've got our attraction mechanisms up, right? Okay. I've got my dating website. I've got all you know, it's I've got it all up Now it's about how we bring people on and that skills-based organization thing There's not a single skill you can't test for not a single one. Okay And otherwise, how's it a skill? All right, you can't test for it. It's not a skill. Okay And so even if there's soft skills, you can test for them the quote communication things like that Here's a scenario case study on the talk in the scenario. Okay So instead of What most people do the look the resume see if they're close start the dance have people come in do some interviews And then they may test them at the end of all that and a lot of times they don't test it all They just put them on a job assuming what their skill set is Guess what? Half the people out there test better than the other half of the people out there and which half are you hiring? And how would you even know? How would you even know? Hey, we're a top 10 shop really can you prove that? Okay Yeah, here's here's the rigorous 20 point test. We put everybody through in order to be able to work for us That's why you're hiring only the best Yeah, this is the rigorous 20 point process we take new employees so you know you're only working with the best So what you're what you're recommending is start with the skills testing before you even do an interview Yeah And get very clear up front with somebody you can even it takes no time You can do this for your clients and part of your program Have somebody just put together a little kind of wiki or something a form that people can fill out Where they have to answer yes no to certain things or grade themselves on certain things And if they don't pass a certain score or they don't do something They can't submit a resume Now somebody's applicant tracking systems will allow you to manipulate them, but not the not as well as I would like to see that So you can create something that then allows somebody to pass through to the next step in the hiring process So that you're not wasting your time or their time and I'll tell you the one experience that really pushed me over the edge about skill testing years ago And I was when I was living in Palm Beach area at a real estate investment firm that I was working with And they were hiring a cfo and so they asked me to help they need hire a cfo And I can all these resumes, you know, they're willing to pay well. They're good to great fans Awesome company and I said, you know I think we ought to test the cfos on two things Number one their substantive knowledge of a cfo is general accounting principles gap Right. I need to know employment law. They need to know gap, right? So like half of them will test better than the other half I was blown away by how poorly Some of these cfos with years of experience did on gap blown away And yet you looked at that experience you looked at that job title and you said, oh that Of course, they know this really It was a wake-up call and the other thing we did we tested did their deals on real estate deals on excel spreadsheets So then we tested on on the ability to use excel spreadsheets and then we had to do a case study But we hired a great cfo and we hired an account temp cfo until we hired the right cfo All right, so I have a question for you Don Yeah, so there is a new training um methodology that's going around it's called the three two one training and In this your three two one training method. Yeah. Yeah, and in this training method, um, you are You're given a a list of all of the different things that there are to clean, right and and at home And before you ever get hired before you ever do anything you have to rate yourself On how well you think you can clean these different things with no training three two or one three You think are amazing one.  You're going to need some help and um two You might need a little bit of help and so the idea is they give them the test in advance and If the level of things that they say they're a three on are high enough They're you know More than they bring them on and then the first thing they do On day one before they do any of the orientation or any of that other stuff is they test them On their threes on that very good. Great idea. Great idea All right, it sounds like it fits right in with what you're saying Great idea people are having some some Here's the thing you there if you're Testing somebody on the ability to to write java programming There's a bazillion online tests that you can have people take so anything on technology is online tests for it right now, right? Every type of program you can use Then it becomes a little stickier where it's physical work or something that's not pre You know, there's not a lot of those so for example, one of my clients is an insurance brokerage up in santa rosa She built her company based on my recommendations of hiring People with the right attitude and training them and skills and and in culture so she didn't hire laterally and have to do with unlearning and all that good stuff And she was so successful. She got acquired made a ridiculous amount of money And now she had to grow even further so she had to start bringing people in laterally for the first time ever Three to five years experience of what we looked to a lot of time We looked to have somebody else be the learning curve, right if we got to put them to work right away So she said I couldn't find a test for them the p&c brokers You know work comp general liability guys Engels and so she sat down her existing brokers and said what 10 questions should we ask them to unsee if they know the business? And then she used those 10 questions and she called me up. She goes. Oh my god. I am so glad I did this She goes I said she goes I I consumed that these people would know this stuff and would blew me away how little so many of them knew And then she goes and now what I realized don as you've been saying all along I'm assuming what my existing employees know. I need to test them too You know as we're What's the standard here? What do we got here? So don I know you're in a past life. You were a plaintiff's attorney So as we're looking as we're looking at these Assessments, is there anything that we need to be mindful of? There's no hiring lawsuits The problem with the hiring lawsuits. Hey, if you were such a rocket scientist, how come nobody else has hired you? That's the biggest problem somebody walks in my office and wants to sue for I'm somebody because I'm hired If you got if I'm some blatant discriminatory thing as somebody said we're never hiring blank, uh, you know If you've got a I don't have to hire somebody if I don't like their personality Okay, the green black old if I don't like the person I don't have to hire them So for the hiring process I could create my own assessment and Yeah, look if theoretically Theoretically on the eo guidelines it has to be validated Over time that's if it's a pass fail If it's one more input it doesn't need that level validation because it can theoretically carve out a group on a disparate basis But but but if you run it enough times to realize it's not doing that Then you can generate your own validation about it and I have not seen a single I'll call small employer somebody's not a public company get sued by the eoc on assessment validation Ever and I look at every single case that ever comes out in the united states every week and have for 22 years At is the editor of the risk management journal So if we were a wall of art we would probably need to be a little more careful, but a small Absolutely because we're going to sue you on a class action basis There's no leverage on an individual not to hire basis How long did it take you to finally get another job three months? There's your damages.  We had a phone call. Okay.  You bring a toddler with you But again, okay, so We have to think about the out of the gate onboarding experience So for example, for example one of the construction firms that I worked with I said, okay Let's really make sure we create an incredible experience First coming in and I learned this actually from a dentist one time and I can come back to him But I said when somebody comes to the front door through the gates How do we make somebody that you know is going to be there an amazing experience?  Welcome Don Finn, you know on it and the receptionist So I've never met before she goes. Oh, you must be Don Finn. Welcome. How are you doing? Why can't why not do that first day of an employee? You know I had a dentist, you know Generally waiting in a dentist's office forever and it's flying go into place. I had a dentist right away They were on time they they put me in a chair.  He ended up building a software company for dentists and a guy is wealthy I just finished speaking for his whole association of dentists that use that software And it was started with his one office and how he practiced at that office And he turned key to hundreds and hundreds of dentists now using his process Sounds like made central It made central that's exactly what Tom's doing with this software, right? Yeah, well, you can you can leverage opportunity and experience that way, right? Yeah, if you're getting good results, then yeah And it's a lot cheaper to to rent it to to to create it as Tom knows Sometimes it's not that a rent which is the problem, right? All right. So the first one or an onboarding experience Uh, the first thing shouldn't be going into HR's office. It needs to be an event is what I'm hearing Yeah, yeah make it a special event on my website, which we'll come to Um There's an onboarding checklist There's a whole bunch of ideas as I tell people any of the tools I create I take 80 90 of the way there tweak them for you Okay, the rest of the way, but you want to have a process. You don't want to have an onboarding event That makes you an event planner. Okay. It's a different industry, right? You want to have an onboarding process and when people tell me they have a hiring process I'm like good show it to me like what do you mean? You have a process and you can't show it to me. You don't have a process One of the things I'll never forget Tom is reading the emith by Michael Gerber. Yeah Okay, it is a Bay Area consultants goes into a McDonald's seeing 16 and 17 year old pimply face kids running a billion dollar company He says has that happened with SOPs for everything Because you want to build your business as if you're trying to franchise it Some of your members are franchisees, right? They bought into that type of system, right? But even if you're not you still want to be able to scale to be able to duplicate You've got to run those SOPs. So hiring SOPs, you know onboarding SOPs Every step of the way is process. Okay Well, you know what? Don I'm going to ask Tom if we could real quick because we have a question here from all clean services About what's your onboarding process? So Tom, could you share Don's website right now? It's not going to hurt to have it up for for a little bit and let people see Y'all Don has a ton of tools on his website easy to find don finn.com finn has spelled Tom will pop it up for us and then I highly recommend that y'all go check His website out because there's just so much stuff there that you're going to want to use and here Tom go over the free tools All of them are right. He's got it up. Very good This link right here click on it and it brings you here Go that brings you to speaking coaching but click on the free tools. I want you to go to that page You have it up on the top there Tom you already have it up on the top when you look at the very top there. You'll see free tools Click on it. It's not uh refreshing here. Hold on a second He's got it. It's because we're in this zoom Or Can you make me the presenter? There you go. You got it. You got it. Okay So first of all a lot of what i'm talking about is in that report right there the hiring and retaining And that's the workshop that i've been doing all around the country for the ceo groups And I did it. You know, I just finished doing that Uh the mehita convention in nashville material handlers convention gave that presentation I'm sorry down. Let me get this right. This isn't uh, you see you hold on a second Here you go. Um, here you go. I got it now. Okay Where where do we go scroll on down just slowly scroll down slowly So you start off where there's a bunch of the books that I've written there Okay, and if you're a smaller company that chaos to order the third book down Is really what I learned about building my own self-employed business. Okay um So you can you can actually download the book You don't have to put anything in anything in any of my stuff. You just open things up. Okay So it's going on down a little bit further And then you start seeing a checklist And as you go down Yeah There's a there's a few of them. Okay, so we gotta check this for designing a safe workplace important few folks I'm excited don. I just want to get to and I'm sorry. I can I get I'm scrolling too fast I'm sorry go ahead So keep going if you want to see the onboarding is pretty much an alphabetical order. So we're looking for onboarding Holy cow. Oh my gosh, just a few my fingers getting tired Okay so It might be under tools or under a lot of reports and stuff Might be under checklist too. Here it goes You found it. I had to put it on there There it goes. No, okay. I told you There you go I have so many things on here. I don't even know the titles to all of them. See that how big that is okay So this this is a process Yep Not just what you're doing. I like Remember when you build tools like I do you have to be over inclusive. It's easier for people to whittle down than to build up Okay, is what I've learned, right? So as somebody's probably created more HR tools than anybody ever seriously um That's how I've approached it from day one Okay, so you've got it kind of chronological order on what day you're doing these things Yep So I'll claim you can see that we couldn't answer this question simply This is a big process Okay, and I can't And and this is different than training people I think sometimes you could do This is just what you need to do to get them to Learn where the bathroom is and how to function. They use two different, you know, there's a split in the language game, which is there's people make a distinction between um orientation and onboarding Orientation being that event. There's the bathroom sign employee handbook onboarding being that process that goes over 60 days 90 days So in a sense orientation turns into onboarding But that's that that's that's the process there if you go back I want to show you another form You have the employee entrance interview so type of entrance ENT ER ENTR Okay, well there you go. There you go. Okay, so click on to that. So It's kind of funny. Here's how I think about things that I think in process Terms and timelines So when I first started doing these forms and things like that, they were excellent interviews, right? Then a couple years ago people started doing doing stay interviews. So are you gonna stay?  Um, and I asked a simple question Why don't we do an interview and find out why people came to work for us in the first place? And I couldn't find that form any place. So this is an entrance interview It wouldn't you want to give them to that on the first day at work now scroll down on the form a little bit the question number three Don't you want to know why people decide to come to work for you? That's a Good piece of information to know for sure. All right. Look, I haven't dated anybody in a while. I'm just curious why you said yes, okay So Do you want to do they care about benefits? Is anybody ever mentioned your benefits? Then then why are you pushing your benefits? But is everybody say location good that i'm then i'm scouring five miles around my company Okay, around my headquarters, right?  You just have to remember So I think that people are trying to do a version of this way too early Don't no, I want to do it right away.  I want fresh. I want the fresh feedback Fresh fresh stuff. I would I would put that so that would be on the onboarding checklist day one activity Yes, yes This is so cold on So cool Okay It's a no brighter when you when you look at it. I don't know anybody who does that It's all part of one document because you see that what we're seeing here are a lot of different questions That are yeah, there's two different looks on it one one's a one you can fill in a box look and one is It's the same question. It's just different doing it And and a lot of times what people are doing is breaking these different these pieces up Into different little mini surveys that are much less effective and not done at the right time Okay, so that's that tool, okay Yeah, that's great. So I leave the Let's come come out of this so we can keep talking, but we'll come back maybe about some other tools. Okay. Yeah, right So we got the onboarding process part of that onboarding process is is telling people about our culture now Video is great. Okay video can give the history of the company You know time can talk about how castle keeper was sort of started You know, I worked for my dad and his business pictures black and white photos him You can do the storyline, right? And even if it's a short history you can go back before that The company actually started with some history. So so just people get context Of how you how you got to where you are All right You can talk in video about where you're going that video. I'm talking about the the ceo type video Talk about our culture and other people splicing in their conversation around your culture You know as a training, okay You know Part of our culture is how do we deal with frustrating situations? You know Nordstrom's uses the parable of the little old lady who came in to return tires You know and if you if you're familiar with that they teach that to Everybody Nordstrom's when they saw it working for them And I thought it was just some kind of made-up thing It's actually a true story because it used to be a tire center there That got pulled out they put a Nordstrom's and the little old lady actually did buy her tires there I don't think she brought them up to the desk Whether or anything like that But the customer is always right That's why Nordstrom gets to charge what they do, right? Okay So that's who they decided to be they decided to be top 10 top world class and customer service and people will pay for world class customer service Okay You don't want to be the cheapest guy in the block No, that uh, you get what you pay for you get what you pay for right Okay, so now we've got the onboarding we've talked about our culture Then what a lot of people are looking for an employee experience is What's the opportunity and what do I have to do to get there? Okay, so career ladders are a great place place to go. Um I'm gonna let me see I'm gonna do something because it's easier for me Share my screen You want to do that? Yeah, hold on. I'm gonna do this Can you let me share? I can Down to the bottom tray. There's a button that's uh, yeah, I'm I'm on it right now. Let me see tire screen It's not letting me share yet Normally it would pop up here my tray and so let me try again present In the open window and the last screen or screen or window or Yeah, it's just oh, I see how it's doing that. Okay. I'm good now. Hold on a second Sure, I've got to open up That's what I want to do Just open up another page. Okay, so So now I should be able to show this bear with me. It'll be worth it It's gonna be good This is incredible amount of free tools you have here forever. Okay.  It's it's housed under department of labor It is the largest database of employment information in the world It's got every job description for every position hiring statistics turnover statistics career ladders that you can build um skill set matrixes so I'm gonna You just type in onet like I did onet is the first thing that pops up. All right So give me give me a position a common position that you folks hire for House cleaner. Okay. It says accept. Okay. Let me go back I said accept me. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so do maids Now it says maids and housekeeping cleaners, right? Right.  This is every single task that they can do This is every technological skill they may need All the different work activities that you can actually test on Detail of work activities all the work context the job zone You know, how long it gets the training range Training and credentials that you can get if the certifications licenses All the skill sets required Okay Knowledge education abilities interests employment law trends. So tom, what's that you're in north carolina South south carolina close God, I live in panample june for the first year. I should be getting reparations from drinking all that water that explains all of my problems Or could be contributing factor anyway, obviously, you know Okay, so i'm just going to go on one bit, but you'll start seeing how It starts getting broken down Counties wages meetings Wow, people have no clue that this exists Okay So i'm not going to spend any more time on this. It's a rabbit hole. Okay. It's a rabbit hole So for everybody that couldn't see this when I tried to pull it up what I had to pull up was onet online.org To be able to get here when I just did onet. I got something else Well, it'll be the second or the third thing. I'm pretty sure so Yeah, or anything. I guess it knows me. It's it's seen me use it enough times. Yeah But oh net I'll drop the url and chat Yeah, there you go So now what i'm going to do is Is just go Now all I can think right now is oh good. We only have three more minutes on this call. So I can go check out onet Right. No, I'm going to go to the site and just finish by showing some things on the site. Come on get over here Okay, so you can see it Yeah, yep. Yep, sure can so I like this one One of the things I talk about Is And you've heard me do this talk track about bosses being villainized, right? Yeah, and you can be a well intended person But not show people that you care about them It was a great book on it called leadership and self-deception really smack me between your eyes of moving from the abstraction Of caring to the action of caring. Okay, so it's just just You'll see there's a ton of different things on here that you can do To start showing people you care. All right interviewing stuff Like one of my very my all-time 10 favorite books don I love that book so much leadership and self-deception. Yeah, we're good I don't know why this is on here twice But this is a lifetime of wisdom From risk management. I wrote a book about it But if you're going to make a some decision start thinking through this document gosh So pull it up just real quick. Can you I know you have other things you want to show us just show us real quick Like what else on there? What kinds of things are on there? It's all the things I've seen as a lawyer and a risk management editor for 22 years And my own personal stakes and coaching people and dealing with Investigations and all the the funky stuff I've dealt with This is a lot what I've I've learned Well, don't worry about you have to pull it up. I'm gonna go dig into it. Yeah This is gold This is another one. This is another one. I always ask people Do you have a compensation philosophy? Because that's where it all starts For example, very simple is your compensation to pay as little as you possibly can or as much as you possibly can My my philosophy when I ran my company Was nobody's going to get to work over 40 hours a week including me and I'm going to pay everybody as much as I can And when I sold my company, they're amazed how few employees we have for the revenue we generate Okay, so a lot of us don't have a compensation philosophy like when you pay at market How you're going to handle commissions and compensation all all these different things that we don't think through When we pay people right Duh, this is all such good stuff. I am going to drop the url to your website and chat if Anyone wants to reach out to you for more information or from for help with some of this Would they reach you through your through your website? Or they can just email me right there.  So the url don fenn.com is Is in the chat but for the last minute we have left on is there any last closing thoughts you'd like to leave us with? Yeah, you start one step at a time And so one of my bits of languaging is Let's try this as a first safe step and we'll see how that feels So We don't have to take some enormous leap here You just start with one safe step was kind of funny. I just watched this great thing on netflix About this guy stutz. He was a psychologist originally from new york and worked with the hollywood elite And he talks and he does all these little diagrams and I love this one. He did Many doors. I guess some employees he goes for his people he goes It's just one step at a time Okay, it's just this step and then we'll worry about that step and then we'll we get so caught up into all of it The progress is long going to be made one step at a time. So just be diligent and saying, okay Let's take one idea and implement that what's that once that's implemented Let's get the next idea and implement that and that's how that incremental improvement will really make a difference Create the habit of implementing Yeah, that's that's that's good stuff. One of the things that having been now i've Spoken for the visage ceo groups 480 times that they come up to something like that So that's a half-day workshop for over 7 000 CEOs. All right And one thing i've learned about all those very successful CEOs Is they go from abstraction to action They learn something they're paying to be in front of me and they're going to put something into action Otherwise, they're not going to be there And so if you're going to spend time on something like this put it into action Don't overthink it. Just do it Yeah And don't tell yourself it has to be hard. You just have to do it I love you don't have to put a story on it's going to be hard or difficult or that you just do it It's about the implementation. So Yep, we we are uh at the top of the hour though. So Wow, where did the hour go? It's uh, it's incredible See you thought it was going to be seem much longer, didn't you don't that hour flew by just flew by Yeah, you know, it seemed like five minutes. I know people don't want to listen for more than five minutes, but Thank you don't you like You are a force of nature you maybe we'll see you in november, okay All right Yes, I hope so. I'll be awesome. I'd love to see you in person Ciao until then you guys have an awesome rest of your week. We'll be back uh next Wednesday five o'clock Easter. Take care