Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Seattle for theCUBE's coverage of AWS Marketplace Seller Conference. Now part of really big move and news, Amazon Partner Network combines with AWS Marketplace to form one organization, the Amazon Partner Organization, APO, where the efficiencies, the next iteration, as they say in Amazon language, where they make things better, simpler, faster, and for customers is happening. We're here with Chris Cruz, who's the general manager worldwide leader of ISV Alliances and Marketplace, which includes all the channel partners and the buyer and seller relationships all now under one partner organization, bringing together years of work. Yes, years of work. If you work with AWS and are a partner and or sell with them, all kind of coming together kind of in a new way for the next generation. Chris, congratulations on the new role in the reorg. Thank you, yeah, it's very exciting. We think it simplifies the process on how we work with our partners and we're really optimistic. So far, the feedback's been great and I think it's just going to get even better as we kind of work out the final details. This is huge news because one, we've been very close to the partner network. We've been working with them. We talk with them, we cover the news, the startups from startups, channel partners, big ISVs, big and small, from the dorm room to the board room, you guys have great relationships. So check Marketplace, the future of procurement, how software will be bought, implemented, and deployed is also changed. So you've got the confluence of two worlds coming together, growth in the ecosystem, next gen cloud on the horizon for AWS and the customers as digital transformation goes from lift and shift to refactoring businesses. This is really a seminal moment. Can you share what you talked about on the keynote stage here around why this is happening now? What's the guiding principle? What's the North Star? What's the big news? Yeah, so a lot of reasons on why we kind of, we pulled the two teams together, but a lot of it kind of gets centered around COSO. And so if you take a look at Marketplace, where we started off where it was really a machine image business and it was a great self-service model, and we were working with ISVs that wanted to have this new delivery mechanism on how to bring in, at the time it was Amazon machine images. And you fast forward, we started adding more product types like SaaS and containers. And the experience that we saw was that customers would use Marketplace for kind of up to a certain limit on a self-service perspective, but then invariably they wanted to buy a quantity discount, they wanted to get an enterprise discount and we couldn't do that through Marketplace and so they would exit us and go do a direct deal with an ISV. And so to remedy that, we launched Private Offers four years ago and Private Offers now allowed ISVs to do these larger deals but do them all through Marketplace. And so they could start off doing self-service business and then as a customer graduated up to buying for a full department or an organization they can now use Private Offers to execute that larger agreement. And we started to do more and more Private Offers really kind of coincided with a lot of the initiatives that were going on within Amazon Partner Network at the time around Co-Cell. And so we started to launch programs like ISV Accelerate that really kind of focused on our Co-Cell relationship with ISVs. And what we found was that Marketplace Private Offers became this awesome way to automate how we Co-Cell with ISV. And so we kind of had these two organizations that were parallel and we said, you know what, this is going to be better together. If we put together it's going to invent and simplify, and we can use Marketplace Private Offers as part of that Co-Cell experience and really feed that automation layer for all of our ISVs as they interact with AWS customers. Well I got to give you props. You and Mona were up on stage. You guys did a great job. And it reminds me of the humble nature of AWS and Amazon. They used to talk to Andy Jassy about this all the time. It reminds me of 2013 here right now because you're in that mode where Amazon re-invent was in 2013 where you knew it was breaking out. Everyone's, it was kind of small but we haven't made it yet. But you guys are doing billions of thousands of transactions. But this event is really, I think the beginning of what we're seeing as the changeover from securing and deploying applications in the cloud. Because there's a lot of nuanced things that I want to get your reaction on. One, I heard making your product as an ISV more native to AWS's stack. That was one major call out I heard. The other one was, hey, if you're a channel partner, you can play too. And by the way, there's more choice. There's a lot going on here that's about to kind of explode in a good way for customers. Buyers get more access to assemble their solutions. And you got all kinds of like business logic, compensation, integration, and scale. This is like unprecedented. Yeah. It's exciting to see what's going on. I mean, I think we kind of saw the tipping point probably about two years ago which prior to that, we would be working with ISVs and customers and it was really much more of an evangelism role where we were just getting people to try it. Just list a product. We think this is going to be a good idea.  And what's happened now is there's no longer a lot of that convincing that needs to happen. It's really become accepted. And so a lot of the conversations I have now with ISVs, it's not about should I do marketplace, it's how do I do it better? And how do I really leverage marketplace as part of my co-sell initiatives as part of my go-to-market strategy? And so you've really kind of passed this tipping point where marketplaces are now becoming very accepted ways to buy third-party software. And so that's really exciting. And we see that we can really enhance that experience. And what we saw on the machine image side is we had this awesome integrated experience where you would buy it, it was tied right into the EC2 control plane, and you could go from buying to deploying in one single motion. SaaS is a little bit different. We can do all the buying in a very simple motion but then deploying it, there's a whole bunch of other stuff that our customers have to do. And so we see all kinds of ways that we can simplify that. Recently we launched the ability to put third-party solutions out of marketplace into Control Tower, which is how we deploy all of our landing zones for AWS. And now it's like, instead of having to go wire that up as you're adding new AWS environments, why not just use that third-party solution that you've already integrated to you and have it there as you span those landing zones through Control Tower? Again, back to the humble nature, you guys have dominated the infrastructure as a service layer. You kind of mentioned it, you didn't really kind of highlight it other than saying you're doing pretty good on the IaaS or the technology partners or infrastructure as you guys call it. Okay, I can see how the control panel is great for those customers, but outside that when you get into like CRM, you mentioned ERP, these business apps, these horizontal and verticals have data, they're going to have SageMaker, they're going to have Edge, they might have other services that are coming online from Amazon. How do I as an ISV get my stuff in there? And how do I succeed? And what are you doing to make that better? Cause I know it's kind of new, but not new. No, it's not. I mean, that's one of the things that we've really invested on is how do we make it really easy to list in marketplace? And again, when we first started, it was a big huge spreadsheet that you had to fill out, it was very cumbersome, and we've really automated all those aspects. So now we've exposed an API as an example. So you can go straight out of your own build process and you might have your own CI-CD pipeline and then you have a build step at the end and now you can have that execute marketplace update from your build script right across that API all the way over to AWS Marketplace. So it's taking that, effectively, a CI-CD pipeline from an ISV and extending it all the way to AWS and then eventually to a customer because now it's just an automated supply chain for that software coming into their environment. And we see that as being super powerful. There's no more manual steps along the way. Yeah, I want to dig into that because you made a comment on it, and I want you to clarify it here in theCUBE. Some have said, even us on theCUBE, oh, Marketplace is just a website, a catalog, feels old school, feels like 1995 database. I'm kind of just, you know, I'm saying it. No offense taking it. Okay, and now you're saying, you're now looking at this and implementing more of an API-based. Why is that relevant? I know the answer you already said with APIs, but explain the transition from the mindset of, it's a website, buy stuff on a catalog to full-blown API-layered services. Absolutely, well, when you look at all AWS services, you know, our customers will interface, you know, they'll interface them through a console initially, but when they're using them in production, it's all about APIs. And Marketplace, as you mentioned, did start off as a website. And so we've kind of taken the opposite approach. We've got this great website experience, which is great for demand gen and, you know, highlighting those listings. But what we want to do is really have this API service layer that you're interfacing with. So that an ISV effectively is not even in our marketplace, they're interfacing over APIs to do a variety of their high value functions, whether it's listing so many private offers. We won't have that all available through APIs, and the same thing on the buyer side. So it's integrating directly into their AWS environment, and then they can view all their third-party spend within things like our cost management suites. They can look at things like cost explorer, see third-party software right next to first-party software, and have that all integrated so it's nice to see what's for the customer. That's a nice cloud-native kind of native experience. I think that's a huge advantage. I'm going to track that closer, we're going to follow that. I think that's going to be the killer feature. All right, now let's get to the killer feature on the business logic, okay? All partners all want to know, what's in it for me? How do I make more cash? How do I compensate my salespeople? What do you guys don't compete with me? Give me leads. Can I get MDF, market development funds? So take me through how you're thinking about supporting the partners that are leaning in that the parachute will open when they jump out of the plane. They're going to land safely with you. MDF marketing to leads. What are you doing to support the partners to help them serve their customers? It's interesting, as marketplace has become a much more accepted way to buy, our customers are really defaulting to that as the way to go get that third party software. So we've had some industry analysts do some studies and in what they found, they interviewed a whole cohort of ISVs across various categories within Marketplace, whether it was security or network or even line of business software. And what they found is that on average, our ISVs will see a 24% increased close rate by using Marketplace, right? So we now go talk to a CRO and say, do you want to close more deals? Yes, right, and we've got data to show that. We're also finding that customers, on average, when an ISV sells to Marketplace, they're seeing an 80% uplift in the actual deal size. And so if your ASP is 100K, 180K sounds a heck of a lot better, right? So we're seeing increased deal sizes by going through Marketplace. And then the third thing that we've seen that's a value prop for ISVs is speed of closure. And so on average, what we're finding is that our ISVs are closing deals 40% faster by using Marketplace. So if you've got a 10-month sales cycle saving four months off of the sales cycle, means you're bringing deals in in an earlier calendar year, earlier quarter, and for ISVs, getting that cash flow early is very important. So those are great metrics that we're seeing, and we think that they're only going to improve. And from startups who also want, they don't have a lot of cash. ISVs that are rich and doing well, they have good, good, good, good go-to-market funding. You've got the range of partners. And you know, the next startup could be, the next Figma could be in that batch of startups. You don't know that the game is changing. The next brand could be one of those batch of startups. What's the message to the startup community? Yeah, I mean Marketplace in a lot of ways becomes a leveling effect, right?  Marketplace is really kind of leveling that because now you can both list in Marketplace, you have the same advantage of putting that directly on the AWS bill, taking advantage of all the management and governance features that we offer, all the automation that we bring to the table. And so, a lot of our startups, and joint selling, right? When it goes through Marketplace, you know, it's going to feed into a number of our APN programs like ISV Accelerate. Our sales teams are going to get recognized for those deals. And so, you know, it brings nice co-sell behavior to how we work with our field sales teams together. It brings nice automation that, you know, pre-marketplaces, they would have to go build all that. That was a heavy lift that really now becomes just kind of table stakes for any kind of ISV selling to any of these customers. Well, you know I'm a big fan of the Marketplace. I've always had been, even from the early days, I saw this as a procurement game changer. It makes total sense. It's so obvious, not obvious to everyone, but there's a lot of moving parts behind the scenes, behind the curtain, so to speak, that you're handling. What's your message to the audience out there, both the buyers and the sellers, about what your mission is, what you wake up every day thinking about, and what's your promise to them and what you're going to work on, because it's not easy. You're building an operating model that's not a website. It's a full-on cloud service. What's your promise and what's your goal? Ultimately, what we're trying to do from an AWS Marketplace perspective is provide that selection experience to the AWS customer. There's the infamous flywheel that Jeff put together that had the concepts of why Amazon is successful, and one of the concepts he points to is the concept of selection. And what we mean by that is if you come to Amazon, it's effectively that everything's stored. And when you come across to AWS, Marketplace becomes that selection experience. And so that's what we're trying to do is provide whatever our AWS customers want to buy, whatever form factor, whatever software type, whatever data type, it's going to be available in AWS Marketplace for consumption. And that ultimately helps our customers because now they can get whatever technologies that they need to use alongside AWS. And I want to give you props too. You answered the hard question on stage. I've asked Andy Jassy this on theCUBE when he was the CEO, Adam Sileski last year. I asked him the same question. And the answer has been consistent. We have some solutions that people want AWS end to end, but your ecosystem, you want people to compete and build a product. And mostly point to things like Snowflake, other people that compete with Amazon services. You guys want that, you encourage that. You're ratifying that same statement. Absolutely. Right, again, it feeds into that selection experience. If a customer wants something, we want to make sure it's going to be a great experience. And so a lot of these ISPs are building on top of AWS. We want to make sure that they're successful. And while we have a number of our first-party services, we have a variety of third-party technologies that run very well in AWS. And ultimately, the customer is going to make their decision. We're customer obsessed. And if they want to go with a third-party product, we're absolutely going to support them in every way, shape, we can, and make sure that's a successful experience for our customers. I know you referenced two studies. Check out the website. It's got buyer and seller surveys on their proposed. I don't want to get into that. I want to just end on one kind of final note. You got a lot of successful buyers and a lot of successful sellers. The word billions with an S on the slide. Can you say the number? How many billions are sold through the marketplace and the buyer experience future? What's those two things? Yeah, so we went on record at re-invent last year, since approaching his birthday. But it was the first year that we've, in our 10-year history, announced how much was actually being sold through marketplace. And we're now selling billions of dollars to our marketplace. And that's with an S. So you can assume it, at least it's two. But it's a large number and it's going around very quickly. Less than 10? Yeah. Can't disclose it, you know. But it's been a very healthy part of our business. And we look at the experience that we saw. There's a lot of headroom. I mean, you have infrastructure nailed down. It's looking to get better, but you have basically growth upside with these other categories. What's the hot categories? You know, we started off with infrastructure-related products. And we've kind of hit critical mass there. There's very few ISVs left that are, that infrastructure-related space that are not in our marketplace. And what's happened now is our customers are saying, why haven't I been buying infrastructure products for years? I'm going to buy everything. I want to buy my line of business software. I want to buy my vertical solutions. I want to buy my data. And I want to buy all my services alongside of that. And so there's tons of upside. We're seeing all of these either horizontal business applications coming to our marketplace or vertical specific solutions, which, you know, when we first designed our marketplace, we weren't sure if that would ever happen. We're starting to see that actually really accelerate because customers are now just defaulting to buying everything through their marketplace. Chris, thanks for coming on theCUBE. I know we went a little extra long there. I wanted to get that clarification on the new role, new organization. Great, great reorg. It makes a lot of sense. Next level, next gen. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Okay, thank you for the opportunity. All right, here covering the new big news here of AWS Marketplace and the AWS partner network coming together under one coherent organization serving buyers and sellers. Billions sold. The future of how people are going to be buying software, deploying it, managing it, operating it. It's all happening in the marketplace. This is the big trend. It's theCUBE here in Seattle with more coverage here at the AWS Marketplace Sellers Conference after the short break.


Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering InterConnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to InterConnect 2017 in Las Vegas. We're here at the Mandalay Bay Hotel. This place is packed. I mean, we're right by the escalators, jamming all day. Roughly 20,000 people here. Muhammad Farouk is with me. He's the GM of the Cloud Brokerage Services under the GTS division of IBM. Muhammad, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you very much. I appreciate for having me here. So you're welcome. So we were talking, having great conversation off camera about your history coming over from India, getting an education in Oklahoma, doing startups, selling companies and ultimately ending up at IBM. But let's start where you are today. Your role as GM of cloud brokerage services. What does that entail? What does that mean, cloud brokerage services? Two things here, right? My role at IBM is one part of the question and what is cloud brokerage is the second part. I'll start with cloud brokerage. Cloud brokerage is the concept that has emerged in the last five years, where as cloud services became one of the choices for consuming IT, the role of enterprise IT had to change from being a manager of technology to brokering what services businesses use, either from internal IT or from external cloud providers. So the CIOs and IT organization has had to take on the role of a broker. And effectively to play the role of IT broker, you need to really extend the current IT operating model which is people process technology. And that had to be automated into a new platform that gave birth to the new requirement that you need a broker type technology and a platform where you can connect demand to supply. So you can come, demand can come from any business unit either for infrastructure or applications or managed services. And you can connect it to the right supplier just like manufacturing, just in time. And the CIO would optimize the demand and supply and make sure the right services are available to be pulled at the right time for the right user. So this is what Amazon has done. This is what Azure is doing. This is what software has done. Give access to IT services on demand. But can you aggregate that and provide a standard consumption operating model for the enterprise? That is the new broker role and the brokerage platform from IBM basically enables that role for the enterprise. So is that software? Is that an abstraction layer, a manager of managers or is it people in process? It is both. It is an abstraction layer that connects to all cloud providers internal or external. It has automated new processes for consumption, service management and governance and it creates new roles in the enterprise for IT organizations and business users. So it's a complete rethink of how IT operates. But importantly, it connects to the current processes. So that's where you can run hybrid IT. You can connect to service now to the current ITIL processes in the enterprise. You can connect to the current governance dashboards and you can connect to the current data centers where your current applications are. So it connects to the current and it connects to the new world of automated self-service and brings it together. So, you know, you go back 20, 25 years, this business that you're in now is a break fix business that's totally transformed. Talk about the CIO. What's on his or her mind today? What should they be focused on? I think the CIO's role changes every two to three years. The areas of focus changes. Previously, they were in the business of building applications and managing it and managing the infrastructure. Then the packaged applications came, SAP Oracle. Then they were in the business of implementing it. Then they started building web applications again for a while and managing it. Now, we have SaaS, software as a service. So you can just rent an application, right?  You can rent it. You have infrastructure, you can rent it, excuse me. So the CIO's role now, the CIO's role now is how do I govern it? That's the priority. I don't have to go build it. I need to govern what I have very effectively. Second, I need to provide access to services that my business needs. Man, I need to do that at speed. Third, I need to be able to manage it security-wise, compliance-wise, whether the data is staying in the right places, it's not being exposed because data breach is a big issue. My infrastructure doesn't have holes for security. It can scale. So the concerns of the CIO are now different. The risks are different. And that's a new role the broker is taking on. But the most important role for the CIO's right now is to give me visibility into where my stuff is. It's an Amazon Azure software. I've lost control of it. Tell me where it is. And it's very complex. Simplify this for me. It's interesting to hear you, Mohammad, talk about the CIO used to develop apps and then commercial off the shelf applications came and then the web apps, they started developing apps again, et cetera, that progression. And now there's SaaS. I wonder if I get your comment on this. The other sort of trend that we see, we talk about it all the time, is that the companies talk about digital transformation all the time. Part of that digital transformation is becoming SaaS companies. Every company's becoming a SaaS company. What's the role of a CIO in this new, I think Benioff said it, there'll be more SaaS companies from non-tech companies than tech companies. What's the role of a CIO in that world? If you look at it, the differentiation that a corporation has today is the digital experience it provides either on the supply chain side or its customers. And those applications are customs, SaaS applications that they're building. The CIO's role is to make sure it becomes the operator of SaaS apps. Yeah. Right? Whether internal or external. Internal or external. So if his business units develop custom SaaS apps, either mobile apps or social media apps or analytics apps, those apps should be available and running and scalable in the cloud 24-7. So basically he becomes a SaaS operator.  And industry is calling it hybrid cloud, many clouds, multi-clouds. And the role of the CIO is to operate them and make sure they're governed. Third, that its business get access to the right services at the right time because that's time is very critical. So the characteristics of an operator and governor is real-time access to services, continuous innovation, and speed, and control. This is a huge skilling issue for CIOs. Is it not? I mean the skills transformation, you're going from provisioning lungs to being a cloud broker. How's that going for your clients? And how are you helping? That's where IBM comes in. IBM is saying for us to play a role in a digital world, we have to change the way our relationships work with our customers. So if the CIO is becoming a broker, then what is my relationship with a cloud broker in the enterprise? As that option is starting now, in the beginning, there's no skills in the enterprise to operate this model. So IBM has developed the technology and the skills and telling the CIO we can build this and operate it for you and when you're mature we can transfer this to you. So it's a build, operate, transform relationship that we are building so that the CIOs in Fortune 500 can strategically partner with IBM and take this journey together because the role of a broker will be different in every enterprise, customized to that enterprise, based on its priorities. So IBM is basically redefining the experience and the relationship to its customers. And in turn, we are enabling our customers to transform faster, deliver value to its business faster, and become digital faster. So let's talk about IBM's business, GTS specifically. I mean, I set off camera and I'll say it again, many people may not realize 60% of IBM's businesses still services come by GTS and the consulting services. About 30% of software, only about 10% is hardware these days, including the operating systems. So it's quite a transformation that Ginny has affected. I certainly remember the days of John Akers when IBM was splitting apart and trying to focus on different parts of the industries and Gerstner said, no, single point of contact for the customer, we will become a global service provider, very successful strategy. And now we're entering this cognitive age. What's the strategy specifically with regard to GTS? Are you trying to codify that deep expertise and put it into software like that abstraction layer we talked about? Is it sort of a hybrid model? I wonder if you could summarize. Two things, what was true when Lou Gassner said, we are going to provide a single point of contact and we are going to put this together, that was systems integration business. We would take all the peace parts for the customer and we would take the responsibility to deliver it reliably and make sure it's available and it's performing. And the large corporations would depend on us to run their enterprise IT systems. Fast forward 2017, we are now a service integration business. We are integrating services from cloud providers, either internal or external. We're still playing the same role. We are the single point of consumption and integration and delivery for the new supply chain. And the supply chain now is 100 times more fragmented than it was before. It's way more complex. It's more of a complex. Yeah, this is a huge opportunity. This is the biggest opportunity again for IBM and we are practically going after that opportunity. Hey, our role is the same. We are the single point of consumption and delivery and governance for service integration and service delivery. That's how IBM is defining its role again in the services era, from a systems era. Second, how does it impact our revenue? We have a massive opportunity. Every dollar spent on cloud services, customers will have to spend money on managing it. Integrating it, operating it, enhancing it. And we are building offerings that provide value on top of the cloud providers in all these areas. And we manage it. So we see significant revenue opportunities. The way you distributed the revenue structure of IBM, we see a 10X opportunity for us doing that. Well, so there was a while where people thought that, to the extent that you could automate, it would eat into the services business. That's not happening, you're saying. Right, so two things are happening, right? That is happening, but we see a tremendous opportunity there for IBM, because IBM has invested significantly in automation and big data software and cognitive. Basically, what we're saying is, yes, our core business is getting commoditized or basic business, but we are adding higher value at the services in software. So we are becoming a software plus services business, practically. So from our software side, on GTS, we will drive higher margin revenues and differentiation and higher value added services that are digital. And we'll complement that with our services business that can scale at volume. So in effect, we are creating a hybrid business model for the software plus services era for IBM. You're becoming a software company like everybody else. Yes, right. And IBM has seen it and IBM has responded to it. IBM has invested in it. So we are building the IT as a service platform. We have invested in it. We are delivering it to the market. We are re-skilling our workforce and we are creating a superior method of delivery for the cognitive era, using a cognitive technology services delivery platform. So you actually have as a service component of software in your P&L, is that right? Exactly. And that's a growing part of your business. And we are tracking that line item as software as a service. We have to break, but I just want to spend a minute on your personal story. You came from India, you were highly educated, both in India and in this country. And now you're a senior executive at IBM. Quick story about your journey, because I love it. My journey started in India. And I was always fascinated with technology in the United States, because when I grew up, United States was the country that put the man on the moon. So we always looked at, I always looked at United States as the pioneer in technology. And I wanted to see how I could learn from it. How could I professionally grow from it? But I did not know how, but a life is a journey. It got me to Oklahoma on a scholarship to form a master's program in operations research and computer science and then an MBA in finance. I moved to Austin looking for a job from Oklahoma. I work for the government, governor's office for a while, almost three years. And then in the dot-com way, I wanted to be in giving birth to new technology. I joined a startup in Austin that got acquired by Commerce One. From there, the journey took me to working with SAP to building their middle-med platform. And then brought me back to Austin as a CTO for Texas again, where I work very closely with IBM for managing the state's data centers and building the software platform using the SOA product line and the software portfolio from IBM. But what I realized during that time is really the nature of IT services, consumption and delivery will change with cloud. And it needs a new operating model for CIOs and CTOs. So I created a company by CIO for CIOs of how they would operate in a new utility model which combined CAPEX and OPEX and which unified consumption across a very diverse supply chain. And this is 2007 timeframe, right? 2007 timeframe. Just before the downturn. Right. Perfect timing. Right. So I leveraged the tailwinds of cloud to build an operating model for hybrid, which is now being called hybrid, but was really a consumption-centric model and a supply chain model for manufacturing that I learned at Commerce One in SAP. I said the supply chain concepts are very true for IT now because every unit within the supply chain is a service. The vision was to transform IT consumption. The transform IT consumption delivery and governance in the enterprise. And that led to Graviton and the brokerage platform that IBM acquired in 2015. And currently my role at IBM is to drive this transformation into the enterprise and in turn transform the delivery model for GTS. Well, that's where we started. We'll have to leave it there, Mohamed. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to meet you today. Okay, keep it right there, but we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is theCUBE. We're live from Interconnect.


Welcome to this session on the financial risks of climate change. My name is Katherine Hayhoe. I'm a climate scientist, chief scientist for the Nature Conservancy, and a professor at Texas Tech University. And with me, I have a panel of distinguished guests to help answer this key question. First of all, to set the stage, though, from the perspective of climate science. This last year, 2023, it not only broke planetary temperatures as the warmest year ever recorded, it also broke all kinds of other records. In terms of weather extremes. So, for example, heat waves. There were heat waves around the globe. There were heat waves in winter in South America. The waters off the coast of Florida and the U.S. were the temperatures of a hot tub. In my home country of Canada, the acreage burned by wildfire was almost five times the size of Switzerland. And that's not even counting the acres burned in Greece, the acres burned the Canary Islands, and elsewhere around the world. In one week alone in September, there were 12 record-breaking floods around the world, including the floods in Libya, which were responsible for thousands of deaths. And then, right after Climate Week in New York, a flood so severe that there was water bursting out of the subway walls in the New York metro system. We've also seen record droughts in South America and the Horn of Africa. All around the world, this was a year of weather extremes. And so often, when I speak of climate change, I don't call it global warming, because as individuals, we don't experience the average temperature of the planet. But what I do call it is global weirding, because wherever people live, they recognize that something is weird. You can talk to almost anyone, you can say, if you live here, do you feel the weather's weird? And they will say, yes. Scientists have predicted this. We've known for a long time that climate change is loading the weather dice against us. We've known that as the average temperature of the planet increases, heat waves will become more intense, the heat wave season will be extended, heavy downpours will become more frequent, and flood risk will increase in many places. The intensity of tropical storms, including cyclones, hurricanes, typhoons will increase. And droughts, like the one being experienced in Syria right now, which would not be a drought if it were not for human-induced warming, would become more intense. So this past year, we saw that insurance companies made news by pulling out of home insurance markets in several large U.S. states. That has raised concerns in the property market, as you can imagine, that it's overvalued by as much as $200 billion, and that's just in one country. Research in Australia suggested that one in 25 properties would be effectively uninsurable by 2030, due to rising risks of extreme weather. Equities may also be overpriced. A recent WEF research report showed that most companies need help understanding their exposure to physical climate risk, and many are not accounting for it adequately in their earnings projections. So with these impacts incurring unprecedented costs, what is the risk to the financial system as a whole, and how are decision-makers worldwide future-proofing it? To answer this question, we've brought together this panel. No pressure. It's a big question to answer. These experts represent a broad range of sectors, and we really need everyone on the stage, plus a few more sectors in addition to answer this question. So first of all, we have Inger Anderson, who's the Executive Director of the United Nations Environmental Program. Then we also have Christian Mumenthaler, who is the group CEO of Swiss Rea. Next, we have Mariana Mazucato, who's a professor at University College London and the author of Mission Economy, as well as several other books, which I have read. And then finally, we have Steven van Rijswijk, who's the CEO of Ing, and previously the Chief Risk Officer. So it was your full-time job to think about these issues. Indeed. So I want to start off the panel in a somewhat unusual way. The title of this panel was a question. Are the financial risks of climate change underestimated? And I would like each of our panelists to answer that question as it relates to their discipline. So from the environmental perspective, from the insurance perspective, from the economic perspective, and from the finance perspective, I would like them to answer that question with one word. I asked them ahead of time. And then follow that with one sentence of explanation. I know that's a tough challenge. Inger, you're up first. Yes. Yes, they are. And why? Why? Because everything that nature gives us is underpriced. Nature is underpriced itself and the services that it gives to us. The water supply that we have is underpriced and we don't look at overextraction from nature and therefore that risk exists. We're not looking at land degradation loss and what that does to our economies. And so therefore the entire system of nature and climate is part of that, obviously, is underpriced. And that is part and parcel of the conversation that we from UNEP are having with the broader world because we cannot continue to extract from nature or emit into nature, whichever way we look at it. The resources that nature provides to us and our toxic sludge from our existence into nature and assume that nature will continue on being in balance. So yes, it is absolutely underpriced. So we simply have not valued key aspects of things that are now coming back to cost us. Excellent. All right, Christian, are the risks over underestimated in your sector? No, but that's a different perspective. Exactly. Because I have to look at it in my sector. It's all about can we adequately predict the expected loss year on year and year. And as we can adapt the models, we have been able more or less, of course, in the best estimate to do that particular thing, which is estimate the risk correctly. And it's growing. And so that refers to that news that some insurers were pulling out of certain states because they were estimating the risk correctly is what you're saying. Yes. So they have reinsurers who estimate the risk and say we have clear evidence that some things become more expensive. The losses will go up. We charge that. And they want to pass it on to consumers, which they have to. And then in certain states, the reaction of consumers is they don't like it. So this is the first time we actually bring a climate change bill back to the consumer, if you think about it. It's sort of a carbon price, you could say. It's the result of us living the way we've been living results in costs that finally come back to the consumer. But of course they don't like it and the politicians don't like it. And so one of the reactions is, in California, for example, is the regulator not allowing the insurance companies to raise the rates, in which case they have no other choice than to withdraw. It's certainly not their preferred choice. Right. Interesting. All right, Mariana, from the perspective of the economy as a whole, I know you have the hardest question. Do you feel that in general the risks of climate change are underestimated? So... Well, one word and answer first, if possible. We are over pricing it. Because it depends, though, we're talking about price or cost, because the cost of inaction is so much greater than the cost of action. So the price to the global economy, but we also see it, as you said, in all these weird, weird effects, is much, much larger than not acting. And I could say much more, even though they didn't stick to the one sentence thing. So maybe I'll say an extra sentence. She had a lot of commas and semi-colons. Colon. Colon. Colon. Yeah. And the fact that there's actually plenty of finance out there, which is not going into this problem, means that also there's not a shortage of finance. We just have a massive financialization problem. We have global companies that have spent $7 trillion just in share buybacks. We have the gas and oil companies, by the way, which are leading that share buyback trend. But we also have, in the UK, where I live, for example, 80% of finance goes back to finance, insurance, and real estate. So this is a massive misdirection of finance in the financial sector, overly financialized corporate governance sector, and just a completely weirded out moment where we're not actually properly pricing the cost of inaction. But the Stern report proved that. It was also true in COVID. The cost of inaction was so much greater. The lockdown cost us a huge amount of money. Did we now, with all this money that's been created post-COVID, strengthen our global health systems? So next time we're more prepared? No. All right. Last but not least, Stefan. In your area, in financial areas, do you feel the risks are underestimated? Your comment initially was it, are they underpriced? Underpriced. And so it was underestimated is a state of mind. But underpriced is the factual truth, and they are underpriced. And the reason is that our loans and the pricing of our loans assumes known quantities in risk. And that is largely based on models. And these models, they look at risks that appeared in the past. And these models often have 10 years' data. When we look at climate risks, we don't have that data, or we have not captured that data. And so the sustainability risks are current and forward-looking risks. And they are not yet correctly priced in these models. So as a matter of principle, the risks of climate change are underpriced because they are forward-looking. And to give you one example, which is if we want to stick to net zero by 2050, and given the fact that we are currently already at 1.4, 1.48 degrees high, so closing in on the 1.5 already, if societies want to stick to that, that requires harsher policy response. And that is aberratic. I'm not saying it's wrong, aberratic, but that means that that needs then concurrent pricing, because that has a big impact on many sectors that's currently just on pricing. Well, I think that your answer really mirrors my perspective. So my perspective is very different as a scientist. Looking back at the paleo-climate history of the planet, we have never seen climate changing this quickly. We've never seen this much carbon going to the atmosphere. And as a result, temperatures changing faster than humans have ever observed during our very short civilization. And so by definition, we're looking at things we've never seen before. And so in that sense, how can we accurately price that, except by, as you said, in the reinsurance industry, going year by year and incorporating that new data? But we will always have a bias against the extremes because until we see them, how can we value them? So now I want to dig a little bit more into each of your areas of expertise. We've already had a taste, which is wonderful, but in here if I could start with you. So you're the leader of the United Nations Environmental Program and the top four global risks identified by WEF were environmental, so that underscores the importance of what you do.  What gaps has UNEP identified and how are you confronting that challenge? So I guess that so far writ large to a large extent. The financial sector has begun to look at the climate risk. But I'd venture to say that there's much more in my space that the financial and beyond sectors need to look at because it impacts our very economies. Because we're beginning to, all that which prior was an externality, we're beginning to see oops, actually it's really impacting and where it's really impacting is of course where we're seeing it mostly right now by the sector is on climate. Good. But there are other elements and so I want to just highlight some of those. And it's a nerdy kind of word in our world, the science world, biodiversity, but it's just nature. It's just what nature does for you and it does everything. And the entire economy is based on nature, everything. The farming we do, the building and the extraction that we do, the cities we built, the products that we consume, everything comes from and it could be finite, a product that nature has produced like oil by sheer pressure over millennia, or it could be renewable, something that grows, we take it and we eat it or whatever we do. But nature produces it and we have had this assumption that there was an infinity of supply. The supply was just going to be there forever and that it was forgiving that we could just trash it, fragment it, introduce toxicity into it, move species around that have no business being on the same continent, so invasives and we could do and then suck it with climate change in a span of time that nature cannot adapt. And so all of that, of course, is causing risks that we do not know and that we cannot predict and that we cannot price, not in the economy, not in insurance. And that is something that we have to sort of be mindful of because this idea that rains will come and harvests will come and therefore the yield will be there and therefore my investments will have a return of this type. Not happening because of the wedding that you're talking about. And so when we then understand that it's about, I mean, what do you know? We say 58 trillion dollars of the world economy is dependent on the services of nature, et cetera. It doesn't really matter. It's a huge amount. Right? And we then speak about and the risk report, the 24 risk report, of course, highlights this, especially the 10-year span, because right now we have a lot of conflicts going on. And so that is an AI and other things, which obviously is grabbing the world's attention. But this thing upon which we all rely, that little thin layer that protects us from being a non-livable planet, all of that that we are destroying and then people say, okay, look 10 years out, big risk. And so in UNEP we speak about this triple planetary crisis.  And people get that. The other piece is a nature loss crisis. I've spoken about that. The third piece is a pollution waste and chemicals.  And so dealing with that, then I think we will see and we are seeing parts of the world that will be uninsurable. We have said this for a long time. Because IPCC sits with us and so we see these models that takes us into the future and then we can obviously say that, no insurers are going to come here based on these models. That's just the reality. And we see on the sort of disruption of supply chain that we see ecosystem degradation really disrupting supply chain and obviously water insecurity and air pollution and water pollution and so on. So just to say that all of that has spurred us to lean into this area, we host, we have something that we call the UNEP Financial Initiative that has a large segment of banks as well as insurers that convene in a forum and asset holders and pension funds convene and sort of leaning into how they can move towards sustainability. And there we enable the creation of this task force on nature-related disclosures, very much modeling the task force on climate-related disclosures, which everybody understands and try to now follow, not everybody, but follow in terms of their disclosures. The task force, David Craig and my dear colleagues, Elizabeth Maruma Marama, have been leading the task force on nature-related disclosures. So really important and it was launched at the Stock Exchange in September of this year, a New York Stock Exchange. But because of what we are seeing, it's clear to us working with the banking, the global banking sector, being aware of what is needed, that we, UNEP, we could lean in more into this and that's why we are really happy to announce that we are rolling out a UNEP finance initiative, Risk Center, which we will launch in 2024 and which will address the climate as well as the nature, as well as the pollution, as well as other emerging environmental risks that we can see, because we do all the horizon watching. Exactly. And this is not their job. And so, but we actually do chemicals outlook. We, I mean, all of this stuff that we can tell, if we continue down this road, these things are likely to happen. So we hope that this will be something that we can offer up to the world as a useful piece that will offer a sort of unified approach that will enable also tools for development in various sectors and sub-sectors and provide some decision tools for resources. So that's really what we hope that we can offer because climate and environmental risks are very real, but are way underpriced and not, and way overlooked, underlooked. Overlooked. Underpriced, overlooked. That's the right English. Yes. So I think I hope that that would be useful to the world. Yes. That is very helpful to know about that. And as you can see, I mean, you could have a week-long conference on only the risks that you know studies and you'd just be scratching the surface. So someone's calling you there. In fact, someone wants that conference. And so, Christian, you've already touched lightly on how pricing risk is at the core of what you do. Climate change has really posed a new challenge for your industry, but it's a challenge that your industry has been looking at very intensely for over three decades. I remember back in the early 2000s, so well over 20 years ago, going to a meeting that Swiss Free and Others had put together with experts to talk about the climate risks. And as you said, you're doing very sophisticated pricing models that are already identifying the areas that Inger mentioned where it just isn't effective to offer insurance. So could you comment a little bit more on how you're pricing those risks and what you see coming in the next few years? Yep, okay. And I think it's important to make the link because Inger gave you the holistic picture and a lot of these elements are, we're not asked to insure. So we're in the very small world now of insurance and what is covered, which is natural catastrophe insurance firm, Homes, let's say, or industries. And what is also important to say is that we are not asked to cover it for 30 years at a fixed price. So the trend risk is not insured. It's a year-by-year assessment of the whole situation, which is much easier for us. And you're right, I think it was 1994, we published a whole publication around climate change, which did not interest anybody, to be honest. And then starting, I was also Chief Risk Officer at SIRS-3, and I started to talk at the WEF in 2005 and 2006 and very little interest in the topic of climate change. Just always the same few people. This has luckily changed the last few years but it has been a very slow start. So what are we doing? We have 45 experts who try to model the risk. You make physical models of hurricanes, the different pathways they could take, the vulnerability of the buildings, and we can see the risk change over a period of time, due to different factors, of course, because if you take Florida, for example, there's two, three times more people than there was in the 70s. And they build more expensive buildings at the front of the sea. So the value accumulation in a lot of these regions has been huge during that time. Building codes have become better, so that reduces, again, the risk. And then overlayed is climate change. And climate change extremely difficult. I mean, everybody who has been in modeling knows how difficult it is to model, and no model is correct. You just go directionally correct, they become better. But I think for anybody, it would be very difficult to predict what's going to happen in 10 years with droughts, for example. We can only look back at what we see is that certain perils like drought, flood, et cetera, have increased a lot statistically. And so we adapt the pricing models year by year, and we have always been maybe a year too late, but it's not so dramatic. We can cope with that. Whereas the base risk, if you want the trend risk, remains with society, because it's not a risk, it's a fact. And you don't ensure facts. Now, I get asked a lot about affordability, the topic we had before and what this means. And I guess it depends on your definition of affordability. If price goes up 30%, is this pricing people out or is it a question of money allocation to what they invest? I mean, do they buy something different or would they buy that? Technically, we can give a price for nearly everything. It's just that at some stage, if you're in a flood plain and every year there's a flood, the premium is 100% of your house because you have to pay the house once a year. So I guess if the frequency becomes too high, then it becomes impractical. But way before you start to have probably people really stressed from a financial point of view to be able to insure. But purely technically, we think we can approximate the correct price. That makes sense. And that's a very clear explanation. Thank you. Now, Mariana, so in your latest work, which is actually the title of your book, you propose the notion of a mission economy. I like short phrases like that, but I'd like to ask you to unpack it a little bit. So you suggest that there's all these different actors in the economy and governments, and they must all play a different role. So what does a mission economy look like when the mission is to adapt to climate risk, build resilient solutions, and ultimately to address all the challenges that we know exist, some of which we know we don't know yet about, but we know are coming. So what is a mission economy? How does it work? First of all, my latest book is actually about the consulting sector. Oh, I'm sorry. It's called The Big Con, how the consulting industry has infantilized our governments, weakened our businesses, and warped, made weird, our economies. And that's actually related. And that's a great title too, by the way. Yeah, we could look into the, you know, anyway, McKinsey and its relationship with climate and so on, but that's not what I'll talk about. So in mission economy, what I talk about is that when we actually treat problems as urgent, somehow, surprise, surprise, the money appears. Even just recently, think about the big debates, actually the paper is today, in Germany about, you know, the finance minister fighting with economics minister. Is there money? Are we, you know, should be we be worrying about the debt? And then when the Ukraine war happened, 100 billion was created overnight. So in war times, and just for wars in general, no one has ever asked, oh, there's no tax revenue. Sorry, we can't go to Vietnam. We can't, you know, fight World War II. We can't go to Afghanistan somehow, because we see it as a security risk, security problem, and an urgent one. You don't wait six months, six years, a decade to win a war. You want to win it right away. Not only is money created, but also all the tools that we have, all of a sudden become outcomes oriented. Right? So procurement, I'm obsessed. I'm a big nerd about procurement. Every government has this thing called public sector procurement purchasing. It's often between 30 and 40 percent of government budgets. You can either completely waste it or you can do what NASA did to go to the moon where they said, forget cost plus procurement. We're going to have fixed price, challenge orientation with incentives for innovation and improvement. It meant that 400,000 people worked with NASA in the private sector in sectors as different as nutrition, materials, electronics, software to solve all the different homework problems that were mission aligned. The mission was getting to the moon and back at a short amount of time, but they had to solve all these problems, including what the astronauts were wearing, what they were eating, the solutions got us camera phones, foil blankets, baby formula software, blah, blah, blah. Climate change A is not treated as urgent as it is when we want to go to war. It hasn't transformed all the different government instruments nationally, let alone multi-nationally. By that I mean procurement, grants, loans, all the different levers governments have could actually become conditional on creating an economy that's focused on the biggest problem of our time that you were talking about before. We could have, for example, public banks providing loans only if those sectors are, again, climate aligned. This happened, by the way, in Germany recently, where the KFW, which is the public bank in Germany, provided a loan to the steel sector only if it committed to reducing the material content of steel production, which they did. How they did it was up to them. If you micromanage business and tell them exactly what to do, that'll stifle innovation. But that idea of providing a strong direction and leaving open the how, but really making this an economy-wide transformation is possible. We just choose not to. And I think that's really important to talk about the choices, because, again, we know the numbers. There's plenty, whether it's UNEP or others who've shown that the cost of inaction on climate is so much greater than the cost of action, but that's not enough. Then we need to transform the everyday. And if you look at not just government instruments, but how business is done, you know, we have a corporate governance problem, and I was alluding to some of the figures, but when you have 7 trillion used for share buybacks, that's a massive amount of money that's not reinvested back into the economy, let alone when it's invested into the economy, making sure that the type of economy we have is inclusive and it's sustainable. And that comes to your point. I think it was you who raised the concept of externalities. That's just completely based on this wrong idea of how markets behave. It's not that you have a market and somehow that's the perfect way to set up a capitalist system and sometimes it messes up and the government should come in and fix a so-called market failure. That's how economists justify any type of public action, market failure fixing. That's why you need carbon taxes to fix negative externalities or funding public R&D to fix positive externalities. If you see the role of the public sector, it's just fixing a market failure. By design, you will always be reactive, not proactive. By design, you will be patching stuff up. And by design, you'll also be a bit depressed because at best you're de-risking the cool risk takers. So the whole narrative of markets being shaped, not fixed, they are shaped by collective action across business, across governments, increasingly also across philanthropies. I have a bit of a critique on philanthropies because I think they're often make, the money that's made from some of the largest philanthropies globally is based on bad business, which often doesn't pay tax, doesn't treat workers too well. I could go on and then the excess profits from a problematic business model are put into foundations that are called blah, blah, blah, earth fund or whatever it may be called. We need to change how, sorry, how business is done, how government is done, and how they work together treating this problem for all the reasons that climate scientists have been telling us for years is one of the most urgent problems of our time. And I don't like to talk about work as that's negative, but treating problems as urgently means putting the sustainable development goals at the center of how we do industrial strategy, innovation policy, and financial policy. Currently they're on the periphery. Well, funny that you mentioned banks because we have the person to pick that up and then speak about it. So, yeah, she knew we were sitting beside. So when it comes to banks, banks are crucial to incentivizing companies or de-incentivizing companies to take steps towards net zero, towards sustainability, towards understanding that we live on a round finite planet. So how is your bank working to help your clients assess and mitigate the risk and how are you helping to incentivize them to take actions that are towards a future that's better than the one we have today? Yeah. Yeah, we started in 2013. I was based on a speech of one of my colleagues who was a mathematician and making models, but he spoke about his youth and he saw the environment change. And that led to an enormous movement in the bank to start to talk to clients about climate change and how we could help. So we said, yeah, yeah, let's do that. But then quickly we said, what do we now talk about? So we had to educate ourselves. And then we went to many of our customers to talk about and at the time, I think 70% are making the number up of our clients that sustained what? And 20% yeah, we got this guy or girl. Yeah, come over. I and G, how I want to talk about this and maybe for five or 10% this was really boardroom talk. Now that is not the case anymore. So that is the good news. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people in ING focused on sustainability in their sectors. We're a big sector of finance here, especially for corporates. Let me talk about transition finance. Since we talked, I think that Christian talked largely about physical risk. And that's also important for banks, but a very big topic in banks is transition risk. How do we transition from a carbon intensive economy to a carbon extensive economy? Leaving biodiversity aside, which is even a bigger topic almost. So we do three main things. First of all, we educate and we have sustainability finance teams that educate on the risks for companies for climate change. And we have financial specialists that advise on how to finance or get sustainability loans and how to structure these loans. So we educate. The second thing we do is we finance. We finance two types of financing, if you will. First of all is behavior-based financing. ING was the first bank that helped Philips. It was the first bank that issued a sustainable loan. That was a loan linked to criteria that Philips had in 2017 to improve the CO2 intensity of its processes. And so we set targets of what they need to do. And if they then reach these targets, the interest rate goes down. So there's also financial benefit to it. And the second type of financing is use of proceeds financing. For example, a windmill park or batteries or sonar paddles or what have you. So that's the second topic. So financing. And the third topic is in the end, we developed an approach called Terra. What's in the name? And whereby we were based on the scientific approach of the IEA were able for our most climate-intensive sectors to measure what the intensity was of these sectors and how we could become in line in those sectors with Paris well and a half degrees. And so we started to measure very well, but we don't need to measure also. We also need to manage. And that's why we now have, and I'm actually quite proud of that as a next step, but this is not perfection overnight, but it's continuous adjustment. We now have thousands of climate plans of our clients in our system. So with each loan that we, so that that gives us two elements, two we can talk much better with our clients how they can transition to net zero themselves. But also we know much better with each loan that we do how in the CO2 footprint is impacted. And so therefore we have much more direct ways to steer. And let me give you this example, and the numbers are fictional. So let's say that from a CO2 intensity point of view for the automotive industry, you have to go from 100 in 2023 to 40 by 2030. And then you say, okay, if you do the linear lead, that needs to be minus 10 per annum, if that would be linear lead. I'm just making it up. But that also means that I can now say to the head of automotive in ING, okay, we are now at 100, choose as you like, but next year we're going to be at 90 because we can directly steer on these client plans. So education, financing, and discussing with our customers to directly steer on the climate impact that they're making. I think that's very powerful providing examples because we're asking people to do things that they've never done before, but providing examples is a way to help to incentivize that. So now I know if you're anything like me, you probably have things you want to say in response to what other people said. So I'm going to give you the opportunity to do that, but in order to hear from everybody, if you could keep your comments to one minute. Oh my God. One minute. So, Marianna, do you have something burning that you'd like to say? Well, just to support, I think it's fascinating what you said, but we should also remember there's the private banking industry, there's also a public banking industry which currently is not aligned. We have 22.2 trillion, that's 12 zeros, in the national development banks like BNDS in Brazil, 2.4 trillion in the MDBs, the Multilateral Development Banks, and they're not A aligned and they're not actually causing then also multiplier effect inside the private sector. So imagine if you had the regional public banks working closer with the national public banks around climate related missions and then those conditionalities like the ones I gave an example of with the KFW, any loan given to the private sector should be conditional on any sort of innovation, on processes, on anything that has to do with reducing the material content of production, net zero, so on and so forth. It would be immense and that's just the public financial sector, let alone what's happening in the private sector. Excellent point. Can I come in? Yeah, just to say, I mean, just back on the issue of, for the longest time, right, and this may be to what you were saying, Marianna, the goods, they all, i.e. what makes a profit, et cetera, has been in the private hand, but all the bads, that's the government problem. And so as long as that's the system, A, I mean, we're screwed, right? I mean, this is not going to work. It doesn't compute. So therefore, we need to have a conversation about that system and that system then needs to understand, therefore, that we need to see some transfers, we need to see some alignment, we need to have a system which does not just fix the bads, which they are and we are living them, but in fact, which proactively projects that this or that policy will need to be in place. And to enable that then, there is that broader global conversation that we will need to have in place. And then, but it's very, very hard because we have not understood that what science tells us has to, must lead to policy. Now on some things that are very, very dear to my heart, my health, okay, oops, we have understood. The science tells us that this thing is really going to kill us. Okay, we will have a policy. But that bigger thing that might very well kill us, it's on the too difficult list. Let's just stay with what we have. And this is that disconnection that we have as humans and then as a civilization, understanding the immediate, that which seems to be meeting my health, my child's health, the science tells me thus, I'm going to get the meds, right? But the bigger problem we're not solving. And I think the conversation therefore has to be one about holding to account. And it has to begin to a large extent and I want to pick up on the MDB and the public banks because this is the money of the taxpayer. And so there has to be an alignment I spent 15 years at the World Bank, did two vice-presidencies there and was always arguing that the bank has to be the green bank. It has to be that realigned bank. Thankfully now we have Adjei there and we can hope that some of that realignment may begin to happen. It's late, but it is very, very clear that the kind of investments I have the privilege of living in Nairobi and which is where the headquarters of UNEP is, that means that we're very close to a very real situation of poverty, energy poverty, inadequacy of investment, very highly priced investments, financing that is very difficult to catch. But of course, because the risk is high. The risk is priced high. So that's why we need to have the base load, the base level investment that has to be on the public purse to enable the private sector to come in. It is, we have to be very, very mindful, my last point here. That South Sudan is an oil producer. 7.9% access to modern electricity. Uganda, an oil producer. Tanzania, an oil producer. Mauritania, an oil producer. Ghana, an oil producer. Nigeria, with lots of issues, an oil producer. Those that I mentioned do have massive development problems. But nobody's going to invest in renewable energy. Is the message of the world to them keeping in the ground? It is, right? Would you, if you were the finance minister, the reality is that we need to have a global conversation about some shifts of resources, because otherwise this will not work. So the distance you mentioned is really interesting. It's what she was referring to is something called psychological distance. And it's a human tendency. It's just the way we're wired to view risks, especially risks that we feel that we cannot solve or address adequately, as distant from us in time and or in space and or in relevance, as well as being abstract rather than concrete. And when it comes to climate change, it takes every box. You ask people, are you worried? They say yes. Will it affect future generations? Yes. Will it affect plants and animals, non-human species? Yes. Will it even affect people who live over there? Yes. And then you ask people globally, will it affect you? The answer plummets. So in some ways I feel like the reinsurance industry is one of the only industries that really is not suffering from psychological distance. What thoughts do you have about that or about anything else that another panelist has said? I think this is very profound, because we tend to be a very rational industry because we have lots of actresses and physicists, etc. But that's not the normal average and normal people. And of course we pay every year if we do it wrong. But we have hired about 20 behavioral scientists and behavioral psychologists. And I think a lot of the issues we have in the world are linked to things we were not so aware of. We have all learned wrongly at school that humans are rational beings.  Most of the time they're not. And so I think we need to find ways to cope with that. And I think it's interesting when you think about government, companies and consumers who is going to help the most. Consumers make pressure, but I think they're the least willing to sacrifice anything. I mean that's really what I see in the world overall. Governments are willing only to go so far. They're very afraid about the reactions, etc. And you could see it again and again. So I see them very hesitant to even do some of the basic stuff, like a carbon tax that would be really helpful. At this stage, however, I'm quite optimistic about the actions in companies, much more than in the past. I think this comes from pressure actually from investors, from pension funds, that force a lot of CEOs to change their thinking. And now this is so broad that a huge majority of CEOs knows this transition is going to come anyway. It's going to come anyway. So it doesn't matter what you think, you have to adapt to it. And therefore we have our groups, even as part of it, of the CEO Climate Alliance. So we all have pledged net zero 2050, SBTI compatible where possible. We publish everything. And you can see over the last five years we have been co-chairing this group how the thinking of the CEOs have evolved from changing life bulbs to, okay, this is massively challenging, this whole transformation of my value chain. And the reason you have not heard yet so much about it is because a lot of people have been focused on their own, Scope 1 and 2. But this is now going to go into Scope 3. And then we have done a lot of work here. And this is now starting, which means basically upstream. So your suppliers, we have probably hundreds of thousands of suppliers, these 126 companies, they're very large. And so they're going to get the message that they have to be net zero 2050, small and medium companies. And we're going to support them with some technical help that we have put aside and so on. So I think you're going to see, we have to approach this from a government perspective, which is one dimension. And many governments have made some pledges and they go ahead. And then this is like a vertical because all of our companies were vertical across nearly all countries. And that's the other pressure point. So my hope is there's not much space to escape the transition between the two if we keep pushing on both sides. So, Stephen, you mentioned the transistor as well and your remarks. Do you agree with what Christian said about that CEOs feel like it's coming anyway, so now they have to adapt? Or do you feel like there's still some resistance? Well, first of all, I want to mention that they took nine minutes. So not so much. Oh, yeah. No, you've got the time of yours. I know, I know. So let me give you a short look, compared to what it was and that's why the analogy with the 2013 story was there, that the awareness and the action and the willingness is much more there and it's in the core of many company strategies. Still, I'm concerned because, indeed, for many of the biggest companies in the world, including our company and Christian's company, most of our missions are scope three and sometimes they're upstream and sometimes they're downstream. But let me give you one example, given time, so for us, as a bank, it's 99.9 percent. We have a couple of buildings, a data center, and some people traveling to clients. That's it. So 99.9 percent of our missions are scope three. Our clients, our lending. Let me give you one example, steel industry. The steel industry, do we need steel, right? If you have the most advocates of clients who say, well, we don't know we need steel, why, for cars. No, I say for windmills. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we need steel for windmills. Absolutely. Okay, good. Do you know how steel is made? Yes. Well, how then? Well, by steel. No, by iron ore and you heat it and these ovens are cooking coal ovens, right? The most polluted fossil fuel there is. More than heating coal, more than lignite, more than oil and gas. Okay. Steel companies get to hydrogen ovens. Yeah, okay, but that's very expensive and if I'm the first one, I go bust. So you need policy intervention. You need sunset dates to say by 2000, I'm making it up 2035, no more coal ovens. Guys, now develop new ones and we'll subsidize all used public money, otherwise it will not happen. And that is, I'm very concerned with that. It was one minute. Yes, that was. All right, so we have a few seconds left and I'm going to take the moderator's prerogative to ask you one final question. I just want you to answer with a few words. When I say a few words, I mean five or less. Really. What do you want people to take away? There are people listening online. There's people here in this room. There's people who are going to be making decisions every day. So if you could just say in a few words as possible, what do you want people to take away about the issue of the risks of climate change? I have to be very careful because I spoke too long. Action and alignment. Action and alignment, thank you. I think we're moving, but it's too slow. We need to accelerate. Accelerate. Walk the talk of stakeholder value in terms of how public and private take mission seriously. Come together. Similar collaboration. Everybody has a role to play. Yes, and to that I would add it matters to us all. If you live on this planet, these risks affect you, your business, your bottom line. That means that each of us has a role to play. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


and good morning welcome back to the channel welcome back to the vlog it's another beautiful day here in New York City I'm currently in Union Square because today I'm working at a hospital in the East Village which many of you probably know it's affiliated with my main hospital and every now and then we come down here to do rotations so I don't really know what I'm doing today I've actually never stepped foot in this hospital well I think that back I think I did a rotation here while I was in med school I think I think I did a pathology of rotation here but I'm not mistaken I feel like that was so long ago though anyways I'm out of breath for no reason and going to see what this hospital is all about and I'll let you know as soon as I know what's going on or I'll probably just talk to you guys after today is over and again I think it's just CT daily cases today I'm not entirely sure but let's see what happens and hopefully I don't get completely lost in this giant hospital I'm texting with one of my attendings from North Carolina about possible job opportunities and it's kind of crazy because I have to start like looking for jobs soon which I mean I feel like this time would never come honestly but I guess it is which is crazy so yeah I guess I have to start looking for jobs which is crazy I just I can't believe the six years kind of flew by and it's kind of even more scary now that I have to start looking for jobs so I'll probably do a whole video devoted to what I plan on doing after fellowship which is in 10 months ish usually people have jobs lined up by now I don't because I still have no idea where I want to end up and share slash in 10 months so I'll do another video like I said devoted to this entire topic but I just want to share that because I don't know what to do all right so it just finished another actually it wasn't that long of a day honestly did some kind of low end procedures today like you know your typical CT guided biopsies three of them to be exact a CT guided abscess strain and oh embarrassing thesis so super small cases but nonetheless we did them it took forever to get the rooms turned over but it is what it is and now I'm meeting Andrea and Union Square because she happened to be working down here today as well and and we got off in the exact same time so I'm gonna meet her and maybe grab a bite to eat or what not I don't really know where this vlog is going I'm kind of just vlogging for the heck of it because why not my schedule changes every week so I figured I might as well just like take you all along for the ride and someone on my last video commented saying I'm the doctor version of Casey Neistat which is probably the best compliment anybody's ever given me so thank you it was one of those times where I was just like in a bad mood you know and had a long day at work the cases were long we only do like a few cases but it took like literally the whole day and I was just frustrated with like turnaround time and all this stuff so I figured I would spare you all from my negativity on my terrible day but went home and all was good now it's a fresh day today we have a few good cases today also how sad is this it's the whole comedy this hand this whole comedy but you can't even go into it now because of it so anyways we'll see how the day goes and good morning I hope you guys got a picture of how absolutely not crowded the subway was that is insane to me so back in 2010 I say to subway every single day from down here all the way up to Upper East side for work and when I say you had to like wait for multiple trains because they were just so packed like sardines in there and now it's 7 a.m. right now no one is on the train there's like five people commuting which I don't know it's kind of mind-blowing I've never seen a morning commute on the subway that pleasant if that makes any sense at all so I don't know this is this is crazy so what we're like the end of August now and there's still no traffic on the subways I don't know I don't take the subway every day but I am this week and I'm just a little surprised by it salees I don't know what's happening around New York City right now what is up just finished my last day what am I even talking about I just finished my last shift in the hospital for this week now I'm going home somehow my colleagues Jenna and Matt let me go early so well not really that early but it's like 4 30 on a Friday and now I had the whole weekend off we have a ton of different plans it's like one of our friends birthdays one of our friends 30th birthdays it is my mother-in-law's birthday and yeah pretty packed weekend it's gonna be a beautiful weekend and that's pretty much it for me oh I did a type of plastic for the first time today but a long time if you don't know what a type of plastic it is this which is basically when someone has a fracture of their spine or a compression fracture and the normal vertebral body collapses we go in basically drill two areas within that vertebral body blow up a balloon within the body expand it so it's back to almost normal height then we fill it with some really bad smelling cement so therefore you kind of restore height to the vertebral body and the patient is most importantly no longer in pain so there's probably only like the third type of plastic I've ever done in my life but that was actually really cool the rep was super fun because it was like perfect so yeah that's about it have a good day it's Friday and John is off soon probably meter in a minute go grab a bite to eat maybe a cocktail and relax because because next week I'm on call for seven straight days again and since you like my previous video so much I might go ahead and film this video as well we'll see I'm actually covering a different hospital for these seven days and I've never been there in my life before well that's not true I've been there once but it's gonna be completely different so it should be a fun seven days we got our balloons and now we're trying now we're trying to make sure they don't fly away into the street also that store was the most aggressive store for party stuff I've ever seen I had no idea that people took blowing up balloons so seriously yeah I mean I became a doctor I should have been blowing up balloons all this time because they charge $14 for helium family and someone who works in the bloom bus please tell me a helium is not $14 per balloon of course it has to be like way cheaper than that the upcharge is probably crazy learn something new every day


Ooh, look at this new part! Hey, can this be like the official part so we can just play here all the time? Yeah, I did a video playing 2K19 on PC and the PC community hated it, bro. It was furious at me, because I was just making fun of it because it was bad. So then I made a second one doing the same thing. Hey, I feel like some of these guys have gotten pedicures before. Their feet are looking clean. I have people making fun of my ankles, but these guys' ankles are mad fat, and they're not even morbidly obese like me. It doesn't make any sense. Bro, my afro disappears when I put on the helmet. Where does it go? In the helmet. Right, but it's almost as if I don't have hair now. Do you notice that? I'm actually bald in real life, so I don't know about that. Well, that's a lie, because this is what you look like. Can you imagine if I just... Imagine if that's how I was just revealed to your face. Like, just like that, bro. You can hold. Nice, man. Bar-headed with the pharaoh bracelets that go slips off. What? You crazy? We only got 42 minutes. AJ, hit up on Twitter right now and tell people to just come and lose so we can boost, bro. Wally, cut that part out. Yeah, cut that out, so you're gonna do it? Ronnie, finish your game. We've been waiting here for... It's a little bit 20 minutes every time? Ronnie's too busy posting low photos with his celebrity friends to fill up his ego. I feel like it's... Oh, I was gonna go too far. Oh, holy. Ronnie, get to coding, my guy. Start coding the game. Actually, get up the next time. Bro, what do you guys want? Get up the next time. Just a quick little update. It's been 25 minutes trying to get into a park. I'm joining right now, baby cakes. Hey, I told you not to call me that in public. Oh, but we're in private. We're in the same house now, so everything we do is in private. It's getting a little too intimate around here, all right? Rubbing on my feet last night. But that's how you like it, though. But that's how you like it. You don't like it intimate? I know that, bro. You don't like it. You don't like it intimate? All right, step away from your mic. Go away from your mic. You're playing for the camera, bro. That's all it is. Up to a little stop. He made it. Oh, look at the timer. 33 minutes. You know what I'm saying? With the helmets on, fresh off the short bus. You know what I'm saying? He shot that. That was probably the worst shot I've ever seen. Yo, he might need a helmet.  And that guy, damn. Thank God we got helmets, so we could be safe. Oh, this is so... Oh, my God. This is tight in your helmet. You're dead. You're dead. Good shot. Let's go. Hold up over here. Hold up. Hold up. I'm going to run a slant or a tech trying to fly, bet. Tackle him. Tackle him. Tackle him. He said tackle him. Run, run, run, run. Oh, I got you on him. Right there. I got you.   I got it. I got it. You didn't. You didn't. Let's go. Let's go. We're going to fake right, fake left, on hut. On hut. On hut. Ready, set, hut. I said one hut. Let's come back. I said one hut. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Shoot, shoot, shoot. What? What?  Come on, come on. You're on the back of the corner. You're on the post. Or at corner post. I didn't say anything. Oh, my God. We're here. All right. Yo, wrap around and then cut to the basket. On hut. Ready, set, hut. What copyrighted song should I listen to in the back of this? What about trying new things by Legend of Winning?  That's my second song.   Like all of those things by Legend of Winning. That's your new EP? Yes. That's my new EP. The EP's name is going to be something like Discovery.  Yeah. I'm going to face it. 100,000 won my pocket. I think I came out the closet. I thought you had a little more in you. But all right, okay.  Told me to stop it. I think I'm going to have a little more in him soon. Before it takes. I don't know what to say. Oh, yeah. Do I miss? Let's go. All right. All right. Oh. What the bounce? What the bounce? Oh. Oh. That is the slowest hook animation I've ever seen. What? What? What? What? I don't understand. Let's go up. He's not hitting that. That's my eighth song, Catching Loose Balls. I thought you said you had three. Hey, run it out. Run it out. Go. Go, go, go, go. Shoot. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Oh. I call this play. I call this play. Oh. Green? What was that play? Call my Instagram. If we get to 100K, I'm going to give away a snow cone. Yo, you letting the guy in a jean jacket out? That's the jean jacket. Exactly. What I got? What I got? What I got? You're right. You know, I'm back. Oh, what a pass. I know. You've messed it up. Oh, my God. I tried to pass, too. My fault, Green. Get out of here. They're not pretty toxic in these videos. Uh-oh. What a cleaner. No one is just that easy. Agent, watch out, bro. Watch out. Watch out. Watch out. Watch out. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, my goodness. Oh. Oh, my God. Oh. Am I horrible? Am I horrible? Just a tad. How do we mess around that much and still win like that? Gotcha, G. Hey. So much more delayed right now. What the? It is delayed. I can't even shoot like this.  Bro, I was playing on Mars server. Oh, my God.  Okay. Oh, wait.  Big body Miyagi. You're so... And one. And they... Oh, my God. Somebody have a 2K channel like Help Out Noobs or something like that, bro. Yeah, don't let him play. Wait, what? Who? I was still stuck in the end of... Give me that! Oh. Oh. Watch out. No, I got it. I got it. I call that one bi-sex. Yeah, because I did a whole 360. And he just palm the ball down? That's crazy. I'll call that one doctor exam.  Huh? No, no, no. Like they just kind of like touch your... Like they just kind of feel upon you like... Uh-huh. Right? Like you never... No, not right. Wait, so like where are the procedures done usually? I mean like in like in a closed room. Like we're just me and him. Like it literally gave us zero.