Tantor Audio, a division of recorded books, presents But Beautiful, a book about jazz by Jeff Dyer, narrated by Dionne Graham. Preface. When I began writing this book, I was unsure of the form it should take. This was a great advantage since it meant I had to improvise, and so, from the start, the writing was animated by the defining characteristic of its subject. Before long, I found I had moved away from anything like conventional criticism. The metaphors and similes on which I relied to evoke what I thought was happening in the music came to seem increasingly inadequate. Moreover, since even the briefest simile introduces a hint of the fictive, it wasn't long before these metaphors were expanding themselves into episodes and scenes. As I invented dialogue and action, so what was emerging came more and more to resemble fiction. At the same time, though, these scenes were still intended as commentary either on a piece of music or on the particular qualities of a musician. What follows, then, is as much imaginative criticism as fiction. Many scenes have their origin in well-known or even legendary episodes, Chad Baker getting his teeth knocked out, for example. These episodes are part of a common repertory of anecdote and information, standards in other words. And I do my own versions of them, stating the identifying facts more or less briefly, and then improvising around them, departing from them completely in some cases. This may mean being less than faithful to the truth, but, once again, it keeps faith with the improvisational prerogatives of the form. Some episodes do not even have their origins in fact. These wholly invented scenes can be seen as original compositions, though they sometimes contain quotations from the musician's concerned. For a time, I worried about whether I should indicate where I had someone in this book saying something he actually said in real life. In the end, by appeal to the same principle that guided all other decisions in this book, I decided against it. Jazz musicians frequently quote from each other in their solos, whether you pick up on it or not depends on your knowledge of the music. The same thing applies here. As a rule, assume that what's here has been invented or altered rather than quoted. Throughout, my purpose was to present the musicians not as they were, but as they appear to me. Naturally, the distance between these two ambitions is often very great. Similarly, even when I appear to be doing so, I am not describing musicians at work so much as projecting back onto the moment of the music's inception the act of my hearing it thirty years later. Similarly, even when I appear to be doing so, I am not describing musicians at work so much as projecting back onto the moment of the music's inception the act of my hearing it all those years later. Sample complete. Ready to continue?


Yr ydych chi'n gweithio i'r ysgol, a'i ddweud y cwestiynau. Ddw i'ch meddwl i'n meddwl i'r ddweud, mae'r ddweud ystod y dystod yn ei fod yn ystod, yn ddweud yn ystod, ond mae'n ddweud yn ystod. Yr ystod y dystod yn ei ffordd ymlaen, mae'n golygu i'n gwneud yw'n mynd i'r ystod yn ystod o'r gorau. Yn gyfaint, mae'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'n meddwl can distinguish local variable extents on the stack so if GCC told us well if GCC could put some spaces in between local variables and lay them out with those spaces in the right order and then tell Valgrins somehow where those spaces are then we can paint them red when the thing you know when you enter the function it will be expensive but it will check up fine overruns on the stack so yeah that would be good. I don't know what the chances of that ever happening are but that would help. Well the chances are good I'm sure that if somebody wants to submit a pass to GCC and look forward to make the local variable variable and I don't think it's likely to check that there's been a reason to say it's just that I don't know how important it is for Valgrins versus yet another variable. I don't know how hard it would be to develop such a patch for GCC never having messed around with it but you could always send one. I know I know yeah. Yes there was an effort no I don't really think it went anywhere but also I don't really know.  I don't think it worked out but I don't know either. I mean yes it would be great because then you could obviously do at least some kind of kernel checking us. I'm curious what changes you're going to make with the way that Valgrins is running. Well it depends how your MPI implementation works. If you're just doing kind of low performance MPI in which you transfer data by doing system calls read and write then there's no big deal because data comes in through read is painted as defined and then you're OK. The problem is if you have a high performance MPI implementation which shoots data directly into user space like the quadrics stuff or various others then as far as the algorithm is concerned suddenly that you're picking up this data which is uninitialized and it starts shouting all over the place.  And these effectively tell Valgrins how MPI read and MPI write modified memory so it can then paint memory accordingly. You can also do buffer checks on input so if you say MPI sorry MPI send this buffer and it's like contains garbage or is not addressable then it'll tell you at that point which I think is kind of nice. Yeah it takes a lot of pissing around with instruction sets. What are you thinking of OK what has to be done. You need to write an instruction decoder which takes your instructions turns them into this common in this immediate language. And that's often well that basically that's a big and difficult thing to do because instructions do all sorts of weird things and you have to simulate them quite exactly. How many operations. Well we have sort of primitive operations like as subtract multiply and then we have all the floating point stuff and then we have all the vector stuff. So it's actually quite a large intermediate language. It's sort of small in a way. The you have simple stuff for load stores reading writing simulated registers control flow stuff arbitrary expression trees. And then in the expression trees you have about 300 different kinds of operation that you can do. We have to have that money. Even for X86 you get a lot. It's an SSA based intermediate representation. If that means anything. So to hold it to a new architecture you probably have to write on the order of 25 to 30,000 new lines of code. And to make it work reliably on open office size programs then that is another interesting problem. Because you don't want your simulator to be slightly broken and 100 million instructions ago it did something wrong and now the program crashes. Well you can never find out what happened or why so you have to be quite careful. Yeah. You mean you want to see you want to stack trace which goes from C into Python and then sorry the C strax stack trace gives you a bunch of what calls. Right. In the running program. Well I can tell you that we don't have support for constructing Python frames in stack traces. But it's interesting that GDB can do it so maybe we could also find out how to do that. There's no support for that right now. It's just a standard stack trace. I don't know what you get some stuff that goes into the Python interpreter or what. Yeah pretty much it attempts to do that. At least it takes the top 40 frames or however many you ask for up to 100 stack frames. I mean it takes a stack snapshot every time you do malloc or free so it can't get quite expensive if you take these giant stack frames all the time. Especially if you're doing a lot of mallocs and free. Yeah for the most part it doesn't see library boundaries. It just the only boundary that is really of significance is the kernel boundary. And to some extent the malloc and free entries in glibc are treated specially. But you know one random library calls another random library doesn't see any difference. In 3.2 we have the ability to wrap any function with some other function that you supply. So suppose here is some function entry into the library which you're interested in. And you can write a wrapper which when you call there it actually runs the wrapper. Thus I'm checking the arguments calls the original comes back to the wrapper and then returns. So that's how the MPI wrappers are implemented. That's why we have that functionality to some extent. So you could do that would be some effort for this personally possible. If you have some special library you want to do special checks on. Sorry I can't hear you can you say that speak louder. Yeah. No not really. Not sure we really want to. Anyone who wants to leave now please leave.


We're live at noon show on a given Tuesday. This is Community Matters. We're talking about the Big Island. We're talking about PGV, Pune Geothermal Adventure with its manager, Mike Echini. And we are so happy to have him on the show. Hi, Mike. Hey, Jay, thank you for having me. Absolutely, absolutely. We're gonna catch up with you on PGV. I have been so happy that PGV is in the array, the diverse array of renewables in the Big Island. I always thought it was a fabulous thing that Hawaii had PGV, that it had geothermal. And I always wanted to see it there and more of it. I recall that back when it was 38 megawatts and everybody was expecting it to go to 50 megawatts, but there was always resistance. And the resistance goes back to the 90s and that's a story, another story altogether about the resistance. There was heavy resistance back then.  So I'm delighted to talk to you, Mike. So there was a couple of stories I wanted to mention. One is that you were gonna go back on and the other is a continuation of that same kind of opposition you saw in the 90s. Some of the same people opposing you. It's a life work for them to oppose you and you have a couple of lawsuits pending. I know you can't talk about that. But let me talk about it. I think it's just activism. I don't think it's constructive for anybody. This is a time for Hawaii to work together. This is a time for Hawaii to achieve its promise. This is a time for Hawaii to find new technology. It's a time for Hawaii to be so concerned about energy and climate change. And it just amazes me that people are not all on board about that. The very same people who complain about high electric rates are the ones who are making them higher yet. You guys were producing, gee it, at least a third of the energy on the Big Island and when you were offline, that was a problem for Helco. Now you're back or at least in part and you have the promise of going back to where you were and making that contribution, Big Island grid and hopefully reducing rates. So what's not to like about that, Mike? I don't know anything not to like. Tell us how you've been doing. Tell us how it went for you during the period of eruption and the roads being covered with lava. What kind of challenges did you have in that time? Sure, sure. So yeah, if we go back a little bit, the eruption actually started, the migration of magma started in April and then the earthquakes and the ground movements, but the actual eruption to surface took place on May 3rd, 2018. The same day during that eruption is when we shut the plant down. We activated our emergency response plans, kicked that in here and made preparations for the lava to approach us. And make a longer story short, we did get our substation and a few of our wells covered by lava and the eruption, which is a spectacular event. It's a lifetime type of event. It's amazing. We were fortunate that the majority of the facility remained and the eruption ceased in early August, but the landscape was really still full of heat and residual magma below that's not hardened. So it wasn't until the end of 2018 where we were then able to build a pioneer road back to the facility. So in December of 2019 is when we first was able to come back up prior to that, we would have to fly in and do inspections and check out the facility. What's a pioneer road, Mike? What's a pioneer road? Basically unpaved gravel, strong enough for sturdy vehicles to travel on like a four-wheel drive and an APV. The one positive note with that is when we re-establish our access, we were able to voluntarily, we built a little offshoot to the folks to the east of our facility that were surrounded by lava. So we allowed access to our nearby residents or community members. We had on the order of almost 300 folks on this list that were able to go in and it wasn't, you know, this was in April of 2020 and it wasn't until November that the end of November that the county actually re-established the road that was covered below us. So there were several months where our community and nearby members could go back home. So we were happy and pleased to help out. And since then we've been doing refurbishment, overhauls of all of our equipment, our generating equipment. We've worked very closely with Hawaiian Electric. Those guys, I tell you, they're great, great to work with. And, you know, they had part in this because the substation on their side got inundated and several of the transmission poles and lines got inundated. So of course we had to go through the approval process with the PUC for the transmission line rebuild. It was basically Hawaiian Electric to believe that's their responsibility. And so they rebuilt the substation. We rebuilt the substation. We drilled a couple of new geothermal wells and it took us still this time. Like I said, we started back up on November 5th, 2020, almost two and a half years since the shutdown in early May of 2018. And yeah, it's a huge, huge accomplishment from our perspective, you know, like you said, just staying focused and it's been challenging, rewarding, you know, a lot of courage. And our parent company for Pune Geothermal Venture is ORMAT, which is headquartered out of Reno, Nevada, will publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange. And, you know, from the very onset of the eruption and the plant shutdown, the chief executive officer flew over here and informed all the employees that we're keeping everybody on the payroll. You know, at least for the whole year, I think we see what happens. So that was a big deal. So we did have, I think maybe one or two employees that voluntarily left because they didn't wanna be out here with the eruption. But I'll tell you the day that a couple of big events, the day that we reestablished access was a huge step. And then, you know, the day that we came back online is another milestone that we're all very, very, very pleased about. And we're looking forward to coming back online, providing the renewable, clean energy to Hawaii Island, Hawaiian Electric, you know, some of the lowest rates available. We were 31% of all the energy in 2017. So pretty close to, like you said, one third, right? And so we wanna get back there. And, you know, we actually are in discussions with the new contractor as we speak. So hopefully that'll come to fruition soon. Yeah, that's, you know, you're very important to the big island. You're very important to Helco. I mean, how did they handle the gap while you were offline? They must have been scrambling, no? So fortunately, you know, how any electric, Helco, they had units in standby, you know? So their plans to transition from oil to all renewable, you know, they've got a very, very good plan, very detailed. So they've decommissioned at least one unit that I'm aware of that's in Halo down at the Bayfront area. But then they put the other units in more longer-term layup. And so those were the units that I believe that helped get them through with us being offline. Now that you're coming back online, that you are back online and there'll be more, they can take those older units off again. That's correct. I believe that's their plan, they can confirm, but that's what they've been planning to do all along. Yeah. So it's interesting to have to rebuild in the face of all that the challenge is presented by the lava, especially the lava underneath, down that got into the shafts and so forth. Did you change your technology? I mean, because since the time they were originally drilled, a lot of technology has changed, especially around geothermal. So what kind of new technology did you deploy for that? Well, we've been, I would consider us to be ahead regarding technology, the drilling process. The geothermal industry has learned a lot from the oil and gas industry. And they're very more mature in terms of technology. And so we have implemented similar technologies, automatic or continuous monitoring of the drilling process in process, compared to years ago, when you're drilling down a depth and if you wanted to determine what your direction is, you would have to come back out and go in with a compass and determine it that way. Today, it's all done automatically with high tech instruments. Our folks understand the field, they have, we have very good historical knowledge of the area, you know. So that's- As I recall, Ormad is loaded with engineers, isn't it? In fact, the CEO who you introduced me, there was an event that I covered back a few years ago at Puna and there was an Israeli CEO person. He was an engineer many, many years. His primary occupation was an engineer. Is he the CEO today or is it somebody else? So we have a new, a different CEO today. We, in fact, our CEO is as recently taken on the responsibility as the chief executive officer. His primary background is not engineering, but the previous CEOs, like you say, were, but you know, the company is got engineers. We have a host of them, super folks, super mechanical, electrical, you know, thermal dynamics, controls, our guys are like cutting-edge engineers and we're really proud of it. So when you re-organized it, rebuilt it as necessary, that you put in new safety equipment, safety engineering to reduce the possibility of, you know, negative effect from the drilling? So we've implemented, you know, we've learned a lot from this eruption and, you know, we've implemented some safeguards that we think will help us going forward. The way we have constructed our sellers and the piping, that's something that was, you know, unless you go through something that's, you know, like an eruption, you just don't know, right? So it's amazing, yeah. So we've implemented a bunch of things, not just on the technical side, but even on the administrative side, the procedural side, the communications with the county and civil defense, you know, so one thing about civil defense, boy, so we always go through these after review processes, you know, after an event and go over what lessons learned, what can we do to improve next time? So yeah, we're always looking to have that continuous improvement in all the processes that we do. So during this period, Mike, you know, there was discussion with Hawaiian Electric about a new power purchase agreement. And I really never came to the end of that. I never found out the result. You intimated a minute ago that those negotiations were still going on. What's the status? What's the expectation? Sure. So prior to the eruption, we were in discussion with Hawaiian Electric, and we were talking about a refiring plan. So the equipment we have out here, Jay, is almost 30 years old. It's outdated compared to the equipment that we have today. They're considered dinosaurs. So what we had intended and planned to do, which we did eventually, is we wanted to replace the existing equipment with more modern equipment, right? And the results would be because of efficiencies and increasing output. So from 38 megawatts, the refiring project replacement with new equipment would increase our output to 46 megawatts. So we have that proposal that Hawaiian Electric accepted. So there's an agreement between the utility and PGV. And so that proposal was submitted to the PUC at the end of 2019. So there's been participants in the docket. It's a normal process that we go through, that all part producers go through. And information has gone back and forth. And the commission is reviewing all of this information. And we're hopeful that a decision will be made very soon and hopefully before the end of the year. We're not certain. It's in the hands of the PUC. But the four key elements for this proposal is number one, we will de-link the price from oil. None of the contract will be linked to oil. It's all a fixed pricing for the duration of the term of the part purchase agreement. So de-link the price of oil, remove the old inefficient equipment and replace it with new efficient equipment and get the gain of eight megawatts. And to extend the term of the contract, the existing 38 megawatt contract will terminate at the end of 2027. Now that we will invest into all new equipment, we were at proposed to extend the contract out in additional years. And the beauty of all this is that the new equipment would utilize the same amount of the geothermal resource that the existing facility is utilizing. But again, like I said, with the efficiencies, it's gonna have an improvement of eight megawatts. It's gonna be larger generating units, but fewer rotating parts, which will result in a reduction in noise and also a reduction in the potential for emissions, which has been a concern. So it's just, from our perspective, it's just a win, win, win, win all across the board. So hopefully- Yeah, it sounds like that. Hopefully we hear something that's about energy here. Okay, you had feedback from the community, has the community be involved in either the negotiations or in some hearing with the PUC? Well, there's been folks involved at the docket. We as a facility have been sharing the general information that we can share at our community meetings. And in general, we have wide support. Of course, there's some folks that aren't supportive, but that's how it goes. That's how it goes, yeah. How it's gone all these years. That's how it's gone all these years. That's how it's gone all these years. And it'll probably continue. Yeah, right. By the way, I have to just take a digression and say, I've known you for probably 15 years. And I admire you very greatly, Mike, for sticking with it, for being the operator in the face of PGV all this time and for achieving all the things you've achieved. You are very important to energy, renewable energy and to the big island in my humble opinion. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. And you're getting younger all the time. I don't know how you do that. It's the geothermal emissions. Must be. It's good for me. Yes, sulfur. Well, let's talk about the future. When we first met, I think you were at 38 megawatts. And there was always expectation that you could go to 1,000 megawatts. You had the resource down there. And the only question was, what are the steps going forward? And there was a lot of talk about increasing it, like to 50 or somewhere in the neighborhood of 50. But there was a kind of glass ceiling on that. Maybe many, many factors were playing into that. And it just didn't happen for the period in which I was watching. I'm glad to hear that it can happen now. And I'm glad to hear it can happen with the existing facility. So it was just three wells. And your existing facility can actually turn out another, what is it, 8 megawatts on top of 38. It's terrific without having to expand the whole thing in a concomitant way. But what is the future, Mike? If you say that you were at 38, you were providing 31% of the energy for the Big Island. There's a point where the diversification may be somehow worrisome. Because if you're providing, say, 90% of the energy on the Big Island, then the Big Island totally dependent on the stability and success of PGV going forward. And that would be somehow threatening because it doesn't give you the diversification that is a better portfolio. So what is the ceiling on this? How far can you go? How far do you plan to go? What does it look like in the years to come? Good question, Jay. And I wish I could see into the future. I mean, the one thing for sure we know is Hawaiian Electric wants to transition to 100% renewable energy. We know that that's mandated statewide.  We're going to go away from oil, we're going to transition. How will that transition look?  Of course, there's that big challenge with the biomass folks, so I'm sure you know all that one.  So I think the key would be to maybe spread the basket around the island. And it doesn't have to be PGV. It can be other geothermal developers, but diversifying meaning physical location. Because look at what happened in 2018. We were 31%. We had to go offline. We're restoring the facility, coming back online. It's all good things. But you get that disruption. So that's where the state, hopefully, can take a proactive role. The state owns the mineral rights. So in other places in the mainland, oil and gas, folks that own the minerals or the rights to the oil or the gas, they develop the wells. They don't necessarily put it in service. They wait, right? And that would be nice if it would help develop. I think it would promote more developers to be interested in coming over. Because the well field and drilling side, that's very high risk. So it's not easy financially, technically, industry-wide. Because it's not easy, Jay. If it was easy, there'd be tons of geothermal companies here in Hawaii. But there isn't. But you want to get out of that. It's really unpacked out a little bit. It's very interesting. Number one, there's still Mother Nature. There's still the possibility of another eruption anytime that a place has been erupting for thousands of years, and it's not going to stop now. On the other hand, I expect that you learn some stuff in 2018 and thereafter that would make you more resilient in the case of another eruption and maybe get it back online easier with less effort, less expense. That's one side of this. The other side is, yeah, geothermal doesn't exist only in Puna. It exists in other places. And maybe those other places have benefits. So to the extent that you say, oh, Puna is close to the rift zone or whatever the risk is out there in the ocean, maybe other places in the big island have less of a risk. And so other developers could have an advantage in that regard. And therefore, you have a kind of diversification of geothermal as well as a diversification of renewables in general. The other, the last thing I wanted to say is that when I first learned about geothermal, I found actually from one of the old engineer experts in Hawaiian Electric that there's a tremendous distinction between geothermal and other renewables. Geothermal is dispatchable, 24 by 7. You don't need batteries, you don't need it. It's different from solar, different from wind. It's certainly different from biofuel. It's the one renewable that goes all day, all night without fail. That is something. Anyway, can you discuss the possibility of a diversification of geothermal on the big island or elsewhere in the state? Well, there's a, I don't know. There's a department under the university system. And you know, Don Thomas was a part of it. And it's a lady by the name of Nicole Loutz. I don't know if you've made it. Yeah, I do know her. Their department, they're actually embarking on looking at the potential in other locations. I know I've spoken with Dr. Thomas many numerous times. And, you know, aside from Hawaii Island, Maui, Oahu have certain locations that's been identified as potential resource zones. And really the key, though, is for people, developers, folks that are interested in geothermal, you need to go and do some work. You need to go do some, you know, maybe some pilot holes or, you know, some other, there's other techniques that can be performed to try and see, you know, if there's a potential resource. You can do groundwater sampling, gas sampling. There's an electromagnetic, you know, type of testing that can be done. So that's where we don't have a lot of activity in my opinion. And that's where maybe the state can help out. So. Yeah, when Don Thomas was doing that kind of investigation around Pohakaloa, he found water there. He found an aquifer that was thousands of feet above sea level, a whole new source of fresh water. Yep, yep. It's amazing finds that that man is, he did that. And he did the deep water source in Hilo Bay, you know, by the airport. That's another amazing story. Yeah. Yep. So anyway, so going forward on this, seems to me that you have a huge prospect of way beyond 38 plus eight, whatever. And where does it go? I mean, is there any, is there a plan, for example, to build other, you know, facilities either at this location or other locations by ORMAT? Or is ORMAT considered self-limited to PGV? Oh, you know, ORMAT is always considering opportunities. And we're worldwide, you know, we, of course, own and operate, you know, over 2,000 megawatts in the U.S. and international. And then we've also built facilities, yeah? We've provided facilities to the Philippines, Indonesia, all over Turkey, Japan. But we're always looking for opportunities. So I am aware that, you know, the process that the Hawaiian electric companies has gone through the IRF process. There was this RFP for geothermal in 2015. We just could not come to a mutual agreement back then. But I am aware that the Hawaiian electric plans do have for more geothermal in the future. And so it's just a matter of a developer, whether it's PGV, ORMAT, or others participating in that. So from our experience, Hawaiian electric, for the most part, has been pleased with this technology. Like you said, you know, 24-7 dispatchable. Because the only way we can get off of oil is we need to replace the equipment that Helco uses today that burns oil with renewable source that can provide the same technology. The ramping up, the ramping down, you know, and so far, geothermal has been able to do that. So. You know, just to expand on the notion this is a technology that actually is being used worldwide. And it's very attractive to a lot of places in the world today. My wife and I took a trip to Iceland. We went to Reykjavik there in Iceland. And you can imagine, I mean, there's a lot of geothermal in Iceland and Reykjavik. And of course, they get their energy from geothermal, but it goes a step further. I want to mention this to you in the notion that there are other angles, too, you get from geothermal. So you drive down the road and there's all these apartment houses and condos are there along the water in the harbor of Reykjavik. And each one of them has a box, not a very big box. I'd say the size of a VW bus. And this box is connected to geothermal. And this box gives that whole project hot water. They never have to heat the water. They have hot water day and night every 24 by 7 for all of these buildings in the city. And you say, gee, that goes beyond the electricity generation side of things. And I wonder if anybody ever thinks of that. Of course, you get a degradation on a pipeline that would go from Puna to Hilo or something. But I'm wondering if there's any thought of that. There has been. There has been one opportunity that we considered and was embarking on was utilizing the energy to generate hydrogen. Ah, yeah, yeah. So there was lots of interest in that. Because hydrogen, it doesn't make sense to burn oil to generate hydrogen, right? You want to use a renewable source to generate hydrogen. And we were working closely with the university. H&EI. H&EI, yeah. HUN and others. But what had happened is the lava eruption in 2015 was headed towards the town back then. And so we stopped talking about doing it on PGV's location. So they had to move through Nelha, right? They did their facility there. But there's always that potential. It's something that we would consider definitely is a form of utilizing the geothermal energy. We would have to work with Helco, of course, and whomever would be interested in the hydrogen. But I think there are others, not just PGV, but others worldwide, US-wide, that are actually considering the use of geothermal to convert and generate hydrogen. And hydrogen itself is a storage medium so that you can keep the hydrogen for a long time. You can ship it around. You can use it to generate energy or heat elsewhere. And that could be a big piece in the future, I think. It could address the transportation side, too. Yeah. That's a big piece. Yeah. Well, hydrogen is being used in county buses now, or the big project in the county buses in the Big Island. The Big Island is really, you know, it's the preferred island for renewables. It has a higher percentage of renewables there than any other island, as far as I know. And you're part of that, and you will be part of that. And I am so happy and delighted that you're back online and that you have a future in the mix, so to say, in the Big Island, and that you appeared on our show to discuss it. Thank you, Mike. Michael Echini of PGV, Puno Geothermal Venture. Thank you so much for coming around. Thank you, Jay. Take care, and happy holidays to you. Same to you. Stay safe. Aloha.


In viewers, welcome to the program, Agriculture Under the Move. I am Philip Sidney, your host. Today we are discussing the Hiwanora National Honey Show, which is held under the distinguished patronage of the Honourable Alfred Prospe, Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries, Food Security and Rural Development. With me today is, to my extremer, right, is Karis Ogist, who is the apiculture coordinator in the livestock unit in the Ministry of Agriculture, and next to her is Mr. Richard Mathias, who is the manager of the Honey Show and is also the president of the Ionola Apiculture Collective. Welcome to the program. Thank you. Richard, tell us a bit about the Honey Show. We had one a few years ago, which was our first Honey Show. Last year. Very successful, but for persons who are not aware, tell us, what's the objective of the Honey Show? Sure. Great question. The objective of the Honey Show is an opportunity for beekeepers from across the island to select their best tasting and smelling honeys and enter into a national competition to see who's got the best honey in specific categories, so that's the long and short of it. Okay, give us a review of the first one, as far as you can recall, and what did we learn from this, moving into this new one? Sure. I think the first competition that was held last year under the Jeff SGP Knowledge Fair as part of the schedule of events, it was very interesting. We had some really great competitors, guest judges that came from the UK were very impressed with the quality of the honey and the presentations that were made, so overall it was quite very well attended. I think we had about just under 30 participants, 30 beekeepers entering the competition, we have just under, I think, 85 exhibits in total, so it was, your persons could enter multiple categories, so I mean, it was quite interesting. We had two really great champions who won last year, Vincent J. Clarke out of Viewfort, who won Best in Show, who won the Minister's Cup, so he would have won the Best in Show prize is basically a trophy is for the judging, the person who scores the most points in all the honey categories, so light amber, amber, dark amber, honey in comb honey, and the wax, block of wax, wax candles, so the person who accumulated the most points in that category, which is the core honey show category, will win the Minister's Cup. But interestingly, the number two prize to win overall is the person who scores the overall most points in competition, so the other categories such as the honey, the baked goods category where you can bake the cake, bake a honey cake, product of, which includes honey of your choice, art and photography section, so we had somebody who entered all those categories and won the most points in show, and I was a young lady by the name of Matali Alphonse from Derriso, so it was a very hotly contested event, both overall winners were from the south of the island, Jeg being from Viewfort, Matali being from Derriso, so that was a really good competition from the south, hopefully this year the beekeepers in the north and the east and the west of the country will show a little better and they'll be able to enjoy some of the prizes because this year there's cash prizes as well, so the sponsorship has been really great and hopefully that will encourage more persons to participate. This year we've got an additional category, honey cocktail, something for all the bartenders and mixologists out there to give us a nice combination of honey and rum, the taste of solution, the spirit of solution. Bounty rum meets the taste of solution, honey, so let's see what we can produce, I don't know if you win that prize, I think at this point in time it's 500 dollars plus a perpetual trophy, so next year that trophy will go back into the pool, you get your name engraved and you'll see who comes up with a better cocktail next year, so definitely we try to really encourage to get more persons on board, especially from the non-traditional beekeeping sector but to get persons from other areas, bakers, mixologists, artists, photographers to get them involved as well because capturing nature and biodiversity is key. Very good. Okay, I know there is a collaboration of course with the Ministry and livestock sector involved in that, Kharis, give us your tick from the Ministry standpoint. Okay, the Ministry as you know our Honourable Minister is the patronise of this event, so we'll be having two basis for registration, one conveniently in the south and one in the north, so in the south you can go and register at the fisheries conference room because our station for that section is there and in the north you can go to the National Agricultural Diagnostic Facility, you come in with your $10 for registration, we give you the jazz and you are on your way. A simple easy process for anybody whether you are a farmer an artist or one of the mixologists, maybe you can use a little sample of the drinks there before registration but it's conveniently located, we'll be there from 9 to 1 p.m. on a Friday, if we are not available during the Fridays you can do so during the week at the chef's office in San Suu Kyi. In terms of getting the people sensitised and to know where to come to register, how do they know? Are they aware of it? Well, we're using this opportunity and you can look out for the ads, we send the different flyers to different farmers so if you're on social media you'll see it, you'll see it on the Ministries Facebook page, you get the information everywhere, you'll also be seeing in the next few weeks the trophy being stationed at the Massey stores or one of the Republic Bank, you come right? Yeah, that's post competition, post competition. But you can, you will head through the social media. Okay, I know there are other honey groups, right? Are you all leasing of them to give them that kind of information so that their members will be aware? Yes, the eight honey groups have been informed via social media, they have been participating in the training that the fires gives in preparation for the honey show. Okay, well, what's about? Also schools. Just about to ask you about the schools because you cannot leave out the schools, I mean, when it comes to culinary, I mean the schools play a major, major role. So how are they involved? The Ministry of Education has a representative which really is with giving the information and hopefully soon the Ministry on Agriculture and the honey show manager will be going out to the schools just to give a debriefing of what is expected to the food and nutrition classes and to the at classes. Okay, but Mathias, the various components, apart from the honey, I hear you mentioned the wax, I mean there are other components that will be on exhibit, give us a range of those components. Sure, so the honey show is not just about honey, we also have one of our interesting categories because there's 13 categories in total that persons can register to enter in. One of the most, one of the interesting ones is going to be best commercial product. So best commercial product would be a product is either honey or a product that contains value-added products from the honey, like such as propolis, beeswax, even it could be apitoxin, could be royal jelly, but any product that can be derived that originates from the hive and is packaged as a commercial product in line with Bureau of Standards regulations, we have a special category for all commercial products, all commercial bee products, honey, creams, candles, waxes, lip balms, all in one big nice collect pot. So the judges will also be looking at commercial products. And one of the things that is very important about the honey show is that we really want to elevate the standard of the honey and the products that are derived from the hive and solution to elevate it to the next level. So you know that persons can really pursue it as a livelihood. You know honey production is still somewhat of a hobbyist activity. There's a few commercial beekeepers on Ireland, but we really want to see our honey come to the next level so that we can have the surplus and that's upstairs to us. We've got experts in Lucia that's trying to help to elevate the production levels so that they've got technical team here from the UK right now and Barbados. So they're trying to really see how best we can increase our production so we'll have a surplus that's available for export and they can bring in additional income. So it's very important that we look at, use the honey show as a mechanism to raise the standard of our products in the quality. Bee keepers will spend a little more attention in making sure their honey is filtered properly. There's no bits of residue inside of it. They may now start to take note of the different seasons of the year and separate the honeys from the earlier part of the year from the latter part of the year. So you know, in the beginning of the season, we have a nice light flowery honeys, whereas as a year progresses and the fruiting trees come into blossom, you'll have a more fruity taste. And then at the end of the year, we have our rain forest, which will go into bloom then and you have a whole different dimension of flavors there again. So it's very important that once our bee keepers start to hone in and focus on those different segments of the honey flavors and they present that in competition, then they may say, okay, maybe if I can package this specific time of year or blossom, so if it's savinet honey, and persons may gravitate to that and they can charge it a little more. And because people will say, I like the taste of that.  Alright, so if you try to start to zoom in on the honey products, and you decide you started to find them much better, you may be find that you can sell them. You could sell a slightly more advantageous price point because you've got done a little more homework on your product as well as just selling a multi-ferro blend to a person. Okay, in fact, I am coming to the point where, okay, the honey farmer is producing honey. But then there's a chain in terms of you mentioned, somebody else can take it from there and add value to it. Yes. You know, and that is, and we're just going, coming to our break. And I'm thinking here, at the show, would you have other persons there with products to exhibit so people can see exactly what is happening. Sure. So we have a number of artisans, persons that produce cosmetics using items from the beehive. So some persons will make a honey-oaked soap. So you'll have a hide. So persons who make soaps will be available on site. You'll have persons that may be making facial scrubs that include honey inside of it or may have propolis inside of it. You may have some persons that have propolis tinctures, which is good for a soft root. Or if you've got a little too fake, you can put a couple of drops in your tooth. So there'll be a whole gambit of other products. I think it'll even have some honey ice cream. Wow. Okay. All right. So there'll be a whole gambit of products. You know, really try to have a nice atmosphere. We'll also have solo bands from. Okay. Hold that thought. There's so much to be discussed. Yes. You're watching agriculture in a move we do for our break. Stay tuned. We'll be back soon. Don't go away. Yes. The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries, Food Security and Rural Development is placing heavy emphasis on the concept of food security. It's our prosperity, our future. The Cocoa Sector Enhancement Project, CSEP is targeting the rehabilitation of at least 201 acres of cocoa and the expansion of at least 294 acres. It protects against main diseases like blackboard and witch's broom and pests like rodents. It secures the appropriate enabling environment to advance the sector. To learn more about the Cocoa Sector Enhancement Project, please contact Project Coordinator at 459-7003. On the move, we are discussing the Iwanora National Honey Show and of course we have my two guests here and we have been discussing so much and we're getting into the the mitigility at this juncture. But I want to ask Haris, before we get into the venue and what is expected, from the Ministry's standpoint working with farmers, do you think the farmers have really taken up, you know, the mantle as far as the industries considering solution? Well, the amount of honey producers are very low. There are a lot of hobbies and we want to change that and to introduce a new concept of honey production training from the Ministry. We started earlier this year. We have about 17 graduates from that aspect because the skills for honey production is needed if we are going to increase for export. Also understand when you get a bottle of honey it may cost between 60 and 70. The imports, we have to import a lot of our our tools and our friends and equipment from overseas and the course is growing every day. But we are also looking at other avenues that we can produce these things locally at a greater demand for the as the industry is growing to help eliminate these exorbitant courses to the farmers. There are now five apiculture extension officers that will be able to assist the farmers from north to south. So they are stationed in the south and stationed in the north and we go around the area. Some people may have been seeing them already but we're going to get our foot really deep into the industry as of January 2020. So get ready. I'm happy to hear that because it was a one-man show. Yes it was and that wasn't efficient. That was not efficient at all. I'm very very happy to hear that and I'm sure with that the Ministry will be able to really encourage other people to get on board and do not forget the young people to get them involved because the as you can understand the older persons are going and we need young young blood you know to be injected into the system. And we need the women. Of course of course. 81% of the apiculture industry is men and we are happy that at least we had one woman winning competition next year last year and we hope this year more women because it's only 5% of these honey producers are actually females. Great great. So and we need to change the the fact that women are only looked as bottleers of honey or peddlers of honey. We want to show them that we go in the eyes. It's a business. Yes very good. Mathias tell us about the this year. I know we all have moved the venue from Castri Central to the north of the island. I need to know why you why that was done. Okay so give us tell us what's going on. Well yeah it's a good point. This year we got a great opportunity to partner with the ARC and IGI Marina and stage and use the grounds of the marina to stage the event with their support and blessing. So we think it will be an interesting soft export opportunity because you're going to have all these cruise ship yachts coming in these racing yachts coming in and so it's in tandem with the ARC. Yes so it's actually in part it's in the part of the ARC's calendar events this year. So it will give the not only does St Lucia's a different exposure but it will give the honey producers international exposure and I think that's if you know that will give them some a little umph for them to you know let's see how we can put our best foot forward. I think they'll be a we have opportunities to sell above to they're not just to compete in the competition and display the honey for competition but there will be opportunities for booths to sell product there as well. So I think you know everybody needs a little honey for the harm at Christmas so run down to the Rodney Bay marina December 10th to buy your honey to put on your hat. Okay because you can't have the good ham without good honey. Okay so there will be an exhibition of other by-products of honey that will be on on on sale. Yes you'll have the sales. So you'll have the company I'll have the honey show going on in and you'll have all the entries into the honey show and then along outside in there'll be a number of tents with with producers honey producers cosmetic producers a whole range of different products will be available and sell so if you haven't got your Christmas presents for your loved ones there is an opportunity to buy something local locally produced for for your loved ones for for the Christmas period as well. You know so there'll be I think and there'll be a number of organizations that are sponsors that will have special incentives for the Christmas and a republic bank will have a booth there they'll have some special products they will be offering to the the to the general public will have massy stores will have a booth there they'll have something special for the public for the Christmas period they may have some promotional item there just looking at my list Bounty Rum obviously they're the sponsors for cocktails so they'll may have something there as well. Vitabee Health and Man Lake these are B supply companies the international companies that have helped us and sponsored the competition this year. Man Lake have supplied a lot of freebies that will be given away through the competition B suits caps all that's a little memorabilia and Vitabee Health the CFO will actually be flying in to give us his support in person. Vitabee Health is one of the largest B health supply companies in Europe and Mr Owens will be flying in just to give us his lending support to Caribbean beekeeping he's an avid sailor he's done the arc twice so it was a good excuse to jump away from the coal and said to the wife like let's go and support the guys we're not going to do the arc this year but we're going to come and support our friends who did the arc and plus participate in that and give lend our support to the St Lucia honey show so we're already getting support not just locally but internationally and regionally as well. In terms of your judges the judges are both foreign and local? Yes so one of the things that we really wanted to for zooming on because we didn't want anybody to think there's any kind of bias so we have and honey is a very specific thing to judge if we have Sue Miss Sue Carter who is an expert judge from a national UK honey show. She was here last year? She was here last year and we thought it was very important for the credibility of the competition that we had an accomplished judge who knows about judging whose judged competitions all over the world and to lend her support to to our competition. She'd be assisted by Mr Bill Weathers who's been the head steward for the UK national honey show for a number of years. We've got chef Orlando from Souffre. He'll be lending his support in regards to the culinary aspects in the foods and we'll also be having one of our colleagues from Barbados Mr David Small who is a steward trained steward honey steward got trained in Florida and he's going to be coming to participate and assist so it's really going to have a Caribbean international flavor this year so that you know we can really bring the best of the region together to help us and make our show a success. Wow wow wow so it's going to be loaded this year but I have been hearing people saying look everything is in the north so what happened in the south are you taking it down to the south in the future? Yes I definitely think it's in the south and you know something that I mean I don't have the time but I wish maybe that the ministry could look at as a preliminary in throughout the course of the year maybe the ministry could look at having smaller honey shows in around in the different parishes you know so that when when the national honey show come they'll be prepared so it was as a way to build momentum you know and so I think it's something that we could collaborate with the ministry and to have something like a a pre honey show a pre you know so we can do something in the south maybe one year we can actually have the honey show in the south of the island once we get the right location and the sponsors to support us I think it's not out of the pale to have it in the south. Definitely you mentioned you have some side attractions in terms of entertainment tell us about this. Yes working with the Department of Sustainable Development they've been doing a lot of work on developing in an I know the project in developing alternative livelihoods I want to think I've done as well as beekeeping as well as Latini brooms as well as developing a nursery as well to help in certain communities they've also been spending some time in developing cultural development and they have solo bands so I think there's the Morsi solo band will be performing live at the event and also there's some young men they've also been playing some interesting to doing some denry segment songs a lot of the more provocative nature but more something more of an inspirational nature they will also hopefully be participating as well so we'll have a really solution festive honey blessed the different venue so the venue is IGY marina 10th of December all competitors need to deliver their entries on the 9th of December between 10 and 4 p.m. to the Bay Gardens Marine Haven which is the hotel just opposite the marina so we will receive all entries between 10 and 4 at Bay Gardens Marine Haven and then on the day of the show we'll bring them across to the IGY marina and we'll have the judging and prize for them so far. Fanel, would you like to two seconds? We want all groups in the country to participate we want people to come out in large number and support local it's always good to support local. Definitely thank you again Kamarad thank you for being here I know it will be a success thank you for your faith and thank you Caris for being here and keep working with the farmers and get more people involved so the next time it will be bigger and better. Thank you again viewers for viewing the program it has been nice to discuss with you and to bring you information about the Iwanora National Honey Show please do come to view come and buy support local and of course it's Christmas time buy yourself a gift for your loved ones I'm Philip Sidney saying goodbye and see you again thank you


So, what I like about this is that you can come over here, right, to a trade, and let's say that you want to, let me see, Netflix is all the rage, and Vidya is all the rage actually. Let me do something like in Vidya. Let me look at it. Of course, we are on a Saturday, so there is no market movement right now. And okay, that's actually, I think I would have to go to, sorry, to charts or tools. I guess it doesn't matter really, right. I don't use it for trading, sorry, kind of fumbling through here. Okay, so let's go ahead and let's say that we want to buy in Vidya shares, right. Let's forget about options for now, and you know, I could go down here and bring up the order ticket thing, the order entry thing, but I could also just like come over here, right, and basically just buy it from here, by clicking buy or sell, right, sorry, by clicking the price, or actually I don't know if I could pretty much click anywhere. Yeah, looks up there, right, yeah, you can pretty much click anywhere. You can do it on a chart, etc. I think you can also do it by, there's some side menus down here that are really cool. I think they pop up with, yeah, but this is a market, but here it is, yeah, these big button ones, no, that's not it, the dashboard possibly, there we go, all right, so you can be like looking at, look here, we were looking at it in Vidya, not Apple, although Apple's pretty nice too. Right, so there's the five day, five minute on in Vidya, this is when they reported earning then just like skyrocketed and then lost like half of the, you know, value that it rocketed that one day, anyway, so you can buy yourself from here, but we were back here, right, so we were trading and we said, okay, I want to buy this, okay, now this is really cool because you can buy, all right, you can buy with an OCO bracket. What that means is that if you don't have time to be glued to your screen, you can go ahead and say, okay, I want to buy, and that's the green line, you're buying 100 shares of, in this case, are we on, yeah, we're on in Vidya, okay, only if it hits 390 spot 36, all right, that's perfect, so that means that whenever this thing breaks through 390 or what breaks over R2, sorry, so when this thing reaches 390 36, this is going to go ahead and hit the buy order, or the buy button for you, and it's going to get you 100 shares, okay, so you're in and, but it's also going to do something else for you, it's going to create this OCO bracket, OCO stands for order cancels the other, well, sorry, it stands for one cancels the other, right, one order cancels the other order, okay, so basically you're in for the trade, and then either this one or this one is going to get you out of the trade, okay, and what is that, well, that's very simple, if it reaches 391 36, then you're out at market, you know, at whatever 391 36, whenever it hits 391 36, then it'll hit a market order for that price, of course, you know that a market order doesn't get you out at exactly that price, it may hit 391 36, and then immediately drop back down, so if the order, you know, has to get in line, you might end up getting it at 391 30, 391, you know, 00, you know, it could be whatever, it could be 390, it could be 300, you know, it could drop quite fast from the 391 36, so you could do a market, but basically it'll be 391 36, or it hits, it sets a floor for you, it immediately says, okay, we entered at 390, we would love to get out at 391, but you know what, if it hits 389, I'm out, you know, I don't want to lose any more than this, that's perfect, that's fine too, so this is a very handy way to enter an order, because you are setting yourself up for you know, the perfect risk management scenario, we're talking about this in another video, which I will link to here as well, there's actually two of them, but I don't know if I can link to two videos, so when you get in, you know exactly what you're going to get out at, let me see if I had the, no, I thought I had Excel open, let me go ahead and see if I can open, all right, I was reviewing this by the way, and I found this new chart type on Excel, which is waterfall, and this is basically a chart of my gains and losses from when I started trading, and I'm going to review this at some point with you all, this was a big drop because I took some very bad investment signal or buy signals here, actually they weren't buy signals from the x-rays analysts, and I'm not trying to, you know, basically I bought, I believe it was some Tesla contracts, might have been two at most, because I never buy anything more than, you know, three or five unless they're like really cheap, and Tesla obviously as you know is not cheap, but this was a big loss from Tesla contracts, and then after that I've been basically, you know, just recovering, recovering, and I'm up somewhat, so at least, you know, I'm on the positive, okay, so let's go ahead and do, and review what I was talking about, so you enter at 390.36, which is here, this is your entry, you enter at 390.36, and you say I want my target price target, first price target to be 391.36, right, okay, perfect, so that means that you're going to be, that you're going to be making or shooting for, all right, oh, what did I do wrong, security warning, okay, oh, I know what I did wrong, no, I don't know what I did wrong, okay, so 2%, I mean 0.2%, okay, so if I decide to go in and at 390.36 and exit at 391.36, we're talking about a 0.3% gain, right, and if we exit, right, so my stop loss, we'll go back over here, we said it was 389.36, okay, then that means that we're willing to lose, looks like I don't know how to use Excel very well, all right, 0.3%, okay, so what we're doing here is that we're saying I'm willing to make as much as I'm willing to lose on this trade, okay, if you do that once and you lose, then you've lost 0.3%, if you do that again on a separate trade and you win and it was the same setup, 0.3%, then you're even, you're even Steven, you lost 0.3%, you gain 0.3%, all right, that's great, but normally, and this is called a 1 to 1, so what you want to do is you don't want to do a 1 to 1, you usually want to make this a little bit higher so that you might not win every time, which you definitely won't, but you won't lose as much as you will win, so if you change the say to 392.36, okay, that means that it's almost 0.6%, so it's almost 2 to 1, right, so that means that if you lose, let's say that you put on three trades, one, two, or one, two trades, okay, let's say that you put on two trades and the first one, you lose 0.3, right, and in the second one, you actually win and you win 0.5, right, so you ended up winning 0.2, right, if this were back to 391.36, right, which is even Steven or 1 to 1, that means that, of course, sorry, that you would be even Steven because you would lose as much as you would win every time you won or lost. What you definitely don't want to do is you don't want to say, oh, I'm going to go ahead and then, you know, I'm really worried, so I'm only going to go to 391.36, but I don't want to get out, so I'm going to go 388.36, 388.36 is going to be obviously 0.5, that's backwards, so that means that when you lose, you're going to lose 0.5, and when you win, you're only going to make 0.3, so in the end, you're still going to be down, all right, so that's a little bit of risk management math, oh, sorry, a little bit of risk management math right there, but that's basically the gist of it, okay, so that is what we're looking at with this kind of stock order, okay, so that's one thing, you want to be able to, you know, get in and get out, and that's if you want to do, you know, one order cancels the other, you can also simply do, let me go ahead and delete this, all right, and let's go ahead and buy it again, we're going to buy, custom, of course, I believe that is the OCO bracket, right, sometimes you want to set it and you don't, so the difference was, okay, so here's the difference, this is if when I'm using, when I'm using stocks, the name of the game is a little bit different than when I'm using options, obviously you're going to know this because stocks don't have the pressure, added pressure of time, right, expiration, so with stocks, this might not be something that you want to do because you don't want to exit it, you don't want to stop loss, you just want, you know, to be able to exit as soon as you get out, right, so then you would just come down here and then you delete this, right, delete that, and you're, oh, I don't know why I did that, and then you're just left with, you know, as soon as I enter the order, I'm going to go ahead and exit it 0.3% later, all right, and this is also, this is awesome because this means that you enter it and you can do really small percentage gains on this thing, you could, you know, do, well, 0.3% is kind of ridiculous, but you could do like a 5% gain, you could go ahead and say, okay, so I'm going to go up to 394 or something like that, which actually, I should have calculated it over here, let's say 394.36, right, all right, so that's like a 1% gain, all right, that's fine, that's 1% is better than nothing, you could get out at 1%, and if you just like automate this and have this, you know, go in and out, in and out, and do that 10 times during a day, then, you know, you've got some nice money there, all right, so the whole point of going through this feature is that for those of you, this will work out if you don't have the time to be glued to the screen once a by signal has been alerted to, and you decide it, you decided that you wanted to enter it, then this is perfect, and it'll work whether you use it with the OCO or with just the conditional, you know, just the second conditional, you get in, and then you get out on the condition that it reaches, you know, whatever that limit, because, you know, sometimes you want to do that, you know, when it's a long-term stock, you know, you might not want to get out of it so quickly, because you know that eventually, something like Nvidia, it's just going to keep ramping up, you know, it's just going to keep going, it might hit, you know, it might hit a new bottom right now, but, you know, a month or two down the line, it's going to, you know, be skyrocketing, like AMD did, actually, I wanted to look at the AMD chart, because that was just amazing, but I'll do that later, okay, so this is a really neat feature on Thinkorswim, and you can do this on the mobile too, I'm going to throw an image right here of how you do that, it's a little bit weirder, I guess, on the phone, but it works. Okay, so you select the number of shares, I'm just going to do one, and then you come down here to the different kinds of orders, you have day orders, limit orders, stop orders, and then down here, you can see that there's an option for create advanced order, and here you go, here's your OCO, so we're going to do the one share at 34.85, OCO for C-web, and that's it, basically, you add the sell as well, and you're done with your OCO order, so you're in and out, buy and sell, and that's pretty much it, you just hit send, and you're ready, and you're going to add as many conditions as you want.