Team keep it clean. What's going on? It's engraving here with another video and In this video real quick shout out to my boy Los goes hard 06 on Instagram Something that he mentioned. I don't know if y'all mentioned if y'all see it, too I didn't even really think about it until like right now and it's kind of funny And it's nothing against my guy because y'all know I love my guy, but also love my new guy Well, I gotta stop saying that like that. I got to tell y'all who these guys are before that sounds suspect He mentioned he said engraving. I noticed something about you whenever you talk about Lamar Jackson You smile you smile He said you smile every time you talk about Lamar Jackson, but when you talk about flakko, you don't smile the same So I Thought that was funny. I thought that was funny. That was really funny But I mean, I guess it's just cuz like I said, I love my I love my guy flakko. That's my guy That's my guy flakko But Lamar Jackson, I think the reason that that is is because is so Exactly Jose the future. I'm excited about the future. I'm excited about what he can bring to the table I'm excited about some some change at the quarterback position And I love flakko. You already know that but um With Lamar Jackson It's just gonna be so different because I was somebody I had the pleasure the pleasure of Being able to watch not highlights not play with him in Madden not Play with him on NFL Street not look at him Look at his clips on YouTube But I had the privilege of being able to be somebody that actually got to see Michael Vick play Not live at a football game, but live like doing the actual games not highlights night Not clips anything like that and when Michael Vick played when he was on the Falcons especially Eagles that happened in the second year with the Eagles but on the Falcons especially when that dude was on the Falcons and he took over Every single offensive snap was exciting because you just never knew what was gonna happen You never knew what was gonna happen. You felt like any given second this dude could take off This dude could make a beast of a throw. This dude was just so exciting to watch And I feel like with Lamar Jackson. He brings us this excitement Oh, and I appreciate that there's been some more people that been donating to the GoFundMe that that link is in the description So I appreciate y'all. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you very very much. I appreciate it Just had to make sure I said that And y'all make sure you leave a like on a video how we got 34 people in here Y'all got the notification but nobody clicking the thumbs up button Make sure you leave a like on the video and follow on to it or to anybody that want to be in the Ravens group chat I had to create my own Ravens group chat because the one that I was in it got filled up because I was adding so many people So I had to create my own So if you want to be in that one if you are going to actually be active too shout out to the most of the people That I added because they've been active in there They've been in their comment going back and forth not no disrespecting anything but Back and forth as far as conversation talking to each other and stuff. So I love that. I appreciate it That's what it's about man. Um, but anyway Um, yeah, man, it's with Lamar Jackson I'm just excited of what he can bring to the quarterback position something that we haven't had just that excitement man. Um Not saying that Joe flacco wasn't exciting, but um just Joe flacco's biggest excitement with him was the deep ball to me to me this this is opinion based Off of what you feel about what's up taco ain't seen taco in a minute. What's up, man? What's up humble? but um To me what what was most exciting about Joe flacco Was the deep ball when we had the deep ball when he dropped back And the camera would be on him. You will see him looking you will see him holding the ball You will see him look downfield and you'd be like, oh and then you see him cock back and launch it And man, oh that was the best man That was the best and when they got completed Tori Smith Steve Smith bold and whether it be pitta pitta. I didn't really catch that many deep deep passes, but More so the other guys jacoby jones a little bit too. Um, that was the best man That was so exciting but we haven't had that since 2014 That's the last time we really had the deep ball like that So it's been a long time and Like they that's the last time we had it consistently So hopefully this year they bring it back But the difference between Lamar Jackson and Joe flacco is that Yeah, Joe that was Joe flacco. That's his special play. That's that's the play. What's up, Stephen? That's the play where it's the most exciting for him But with Lamar Jackson, he can give you that deep pass But he can also give you excitement if you want the size to take off too So he just brings another element to the the quarterback position that we haven't had and that we just i'm really excited for man Really excited for Bosco said Lamar gonna begin a lot of attention as time passes like they want to start him But they know better and want to avoid the troubles Yeah, and they they gave him starting reps today They said he pretty much took all the starting reps today at practice all of them that is um I have Well, they have never drafted another quarterback in the first round since flacco But i was gonna say i've never seen that happen before They gave all this the pretty much all the starting reps today to Lamar Jackson I don't know man Ravens brewing up something. They are brewing up something. They are really trying to get this guy to progress They are Ravens. They one thing that the Ravens have shown me With drafting Lamar Jackson with a drafting Marlon Humphrey Uh, we're drafting these receivers. The one thing that the Ravens have with with the whole Ozzy Newsome Eric Dacosta thing One thing that the Ravens have shown me is that these dudes always have a plan for the future They always have a plan for the future always They always got a plan for the future and oh you're on lunch break. That's what's up one Um, they always got a plan for the future with Eric Dacosta taking over He had you already know, he had been getting so many um So many requests to interview for GM for GM positions with other teams He kept declining declining declining we would all be like oh man We're thankful that he's declining But we wonder why because he can go be a GM somewhere else Why would he keep declining but they said they had their five-year plan in place for him to take over for Eric I mean for Ozzy Newsome with Flacco Flacco's been on quarterback for the past 10 10 years. This will be his 11th year and it's like man Um, so who who are you going to get to be his replacement? These dudes go out Before the draft sign rg3 They sign rg3. So a lot of us are like man, they sign rg3. That's crazy That's a completely different kind of quarterback than flacco is but then They host Lamar Jackson and there's there's rumors going around. Oh, the ravens might be interested in Lamar Jackson Some of us believed that some of us didn't some of us thought it might be a smokescreen because you know how ravens do that But they actually went and drafted Lamar Jackson They drafted him. So it's like man, you got him to learn from flacco and learn from rg3 So they got these two guys in place to to set Lamar Jackson up to try to get him in the best position as possible for the future So it's like man, this guy is He's doing great, man Oh, this guy ravens see he said he went all black for flacco because us because our starter is about to end Him being our start is about to end. Oh, man Um, but this is great man. And then then they bring on, um, james urban who worked with he worked with maniac mcnavil vick Then they brought they brought on the other guy, uh, marty moan haig who worked with vick, I believe they brought in, um Who was the guy? Is it greg roman who worked with cappernick? Um, who was the other guy? Is it greg roman or is it somebody else? I forget the name But they they they they bring in these guys who have worked with cappernick and vickian whatnot So they already are setting up their rookie to um To just succeed man These guys got stuff in place for the future. These guys set themselves up for the future Then when I talk about them drafting maul and humphrey Y'all y'all know why they drafted maul and humphrey. I know what they drafted maul and humphrey We love love love jimmy smith, but we know know know that he's usually never healthy. What's up, marcus? but um They drafted maul and humphrey to probably be his replacement because jimmy jimmy will probably be gone Next year he'll probably be gone. I think he's gonna be gone next year But let's take a rework his contract and give him whether they cut them and re-sign them or they whatever happened if they could do something um But We'll see We'll see. Hey. Yeah. Yeah, y'all make sure I leave a like on the video appreciate that marcus I still ain't here. I still ain't here back from uh, from from your home girl, man I still ain't here back from it yet. Am I ready for matter 19? I am. I'm not really excited about it like that But I'm ready for it. Um But yeah, these dudes got they got plans in place, man Even uh possibly with tony jefferson. They drafted the sean elliott. I don't know I don't know I don't know so we'll see we'll see but This crazy man crazy how that stuff works out and with them I think even with even when you look at the cornerback situation They drafted a marlin. Humphrey assigned brandon car to a four-year deal even though they can get out of the deal After every year because it's an option year every year. Um, I think that's to sort of make the transition easier for when they do move on from jimmy smith if they do because You got marlin. Humphrey. That's obviously gonna be your guy for the future jimmy smith They know he's a beast, but he's been hurt a lot. Hey, what's up? Perfect. I appreciate you, man um So if they do move on from jimmy smith you got brandon car who can sort of feel that gap Um, and then you still got taevon young then you still of course got to drive it and they drafted anthony avery too I don't know anything about him, but hey if he can step in and be solid that'll be nice Then you got canady Um, it's they it's just a lot we can go down a lot of different routes and a lot of different paths that the ravens have Um shown that they plan That is one thing about these dudes. They plan they plan plan plan plan Um, yes, steven. I agree. He said he just want to see us make the playoffs again I agree his hurt's gonna start. I think so Um, levine to what you mean baron But anyway, they gave they gave lemar jackson most of the first team refs this today Uh, that was great. Um So then they said yeah, like somebody mentioned earlier They said they want to throw a throw the book at him see what he was capable of see what he could do And they said he handled it well They said he handled it well. So that's a good thing. Um What else? Um Oh and flacco It's funny. It's funny how the timing of some of this stuff is I don't know if he got asked this question because I didn't watch the press conference because I'm at work, obviously, but It's funny how the timing is the day The day that they give lemar jackson the starting reps in practice for pretty much the whole day The day that they give him the starting reps in practice is the same day that flacco just coincidentally Happens to mention. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be getting with my receivers. I'm still gonna be getting with with my receivers this off season Coincidence, maybe maybe not I don't know What's up, will you? I don't know Yeah, I know flacco said that before but He could have said it again at any other time any other day But hey, I'm having a great day. I hope you're having an even better one But think about that. I'm not trying to create no drama make y'all make y'all heads go crazy But think about that Flacco said it before yes, but he could have said that this any other day Any other day But he chose today to say it that he's going to be getting together with his receivers the same day that the ravens give Lamar jackson all the starting reps in practice think about it Think about it. I think flacco is starting to become a little shook We're not shook, but I think I think flacco knows like man Like this dude is like he's he's right on my tail man. He's right there Especially that's and that's what I was saying yesterday. I feel like the ravens are just so excited for Lamar jackson They're gonna do everything that they possibly can to get this dude on the field Even even with that even with um them saying they're gonna have two quarterbacks on the field at the same time Oh, Snead brought it up first. Then they asked about it. Okay. Well, that's that So that's that so if if he was asked about it, okay Okay, hey, that's that's what that's what I said. I didn't watch it. So I didn't know That's why I thought it was kind of coincidental, but they says they said sneed asked about it first Okay, Sneed brought it up first. So Sneed went before flacco on the podium That's fine then But even still I think flacco knows man He knows it's like it's like right there Lamar is like he's coming he's coming and I've I've heard a little bit less about rg3, but I don't know you think flacco catch your boss Lamar. Yeah, he caught one from Troy Smith Not Tory Smith, but Troy Smith, but hey We'll see what goes down It's gonna be interesting though, but y'all I appreciate y'all man Thank y'all for coming through all 50 people make sure you leave a like on the video if you haven't already Turn the notifications on remember to turn your notifications off and then turn notifications on so you don't miss not one video So appreciate the hey air Canada. Thank you, man Um, so I see y'all later on I'm about to head back into the office now Um, love y'all appreciate y'all make sure y'all if you want to be a part of ravens group chat send me a DM on twitter And I'll throw you in there as long as you're gonna be active and also um For notifications again Turn them off then then turn them right back on and set it to all So you can um get the notifications and to the people that donated to the go fund me I appreciate y'all. Thank you if everybody else. Thank you for subscribing Thank you for watching and thank you for supporting. I see y'all in a little bit about maybe like an hour or something


suspense. The highest honor that a California sherry can win has just been bestowed upon C-R-E-S-T-A, B-L-A-N-C-A, Cresta Blanca, Cresta Blanca. Yes, at the recent California State Fair in the keenest judging of California wines ever held, Cresta Blanca triple cream sherry was the judge's choice to receive the gold medal, top award for outstanding excellence. This is another tribute to Cresta Blanca triple cream by America's leading connoisseurs of fine wines. Proof indeed that when you poor distinguished Cresta Blanca, you serve the best. Shanley's Cresta Blanca wine company, Livermore, California. And now Shanley brings you radio's outstanding theater of thrill. Suspense. Presented by Roma Wines. That's R-O-M-A. Roma Wines for your everyday enjoyment. Tonight Roma Wines of Fresno, California bring you Michael O'Shea in the twist. A suspense play produced, edited and directed for Shanley by William Spear. Listen Gus, you've got to do the show. I can't do it. You've written for all the big comedians. You'd turn out a hit. I don't have the time. Oh, but, look, I don't have the time. Anyways, I couldn't do it. Ridiculous. A guy with your reputation. Yeah, a guy with my reputation. Yeah. What do you know? Listen, twelve years ago I was under cabs. Gus Staff Green, the hack lice in red, cripes how I hated the cabs. Worked like a slob, 12 or 14 hours a day for a lousy 27 bucks a week. Now do you blame me that I took the daydreamin'? Like, like maybe it was my limousine and I was driving because my chauffeur had a day off? I used to sit at the wheel figuring out the down to situations. Like I'd pick up some rich old daemon. She'd leave me a million bucks or, or I'd save a guy. All, all kinds of situations. But all I got was 27 per a week. Until the night I met Ben. Take me home, driver. Home? Your home or my home, wise guy?  Where can I get a job driving a cab? You want the radio on? Now definitely no. Oh, now don't let's be bitter, shall we? You know, radio was quite immediate. Just think, some guy says a few words into a microphone and you can hear it as far west as Georgia. Mr. Green? Well, Mr. Green, meet Van Hauser, the best gag man in the radio business. Currently freelancing, unemployed, on the beach. Well, if you're so good, why aren't you in there writing to meachs, wise guy? Why? Because words I know, rib tickling words, gags, yeah, jokes to make a corpse laugh. But plots. Situations, situations. Yeah, that's another story. I could, I could coin a million if I could figure them out. Well, well, look, situations. Now let me tell you, I am a veritable shaharazadi on situations. I got a million. Now look, for instance, the guy who says that if I were a funny guy. I don't know, something clicked between me and Van Hauser. From the beginning, I always hated his guts, the way he talked to me like I was dead. But up in his room, I started feeding him stories, stuff I dreamed up on the cab. He put in, put it into good words and it came out very funny too. Well, inside a couple of years, I was getting 1500 bucks a week, but I was tied to that guy. I couldn't work with nobody else. I'd sit down with another gag writer and nothing would happen. Yeah, I knew it was Van or 40 bucks a week in some broken down job. So, so I hung on to him like a barnacle. I worked with him, ate with him, played with him. My place was just down the hall from his at the hotel. Sometimes I thought I'd go nuts if I had a look at his sneer and ugly puss another day.  But one day while we were writing a spot for Schmo for a day, he chose me a very unfunny line. Gus, my good boy, you may be interested to know that I'm going to marry Julie Phelps. Julie Phelps, a dancer? That's right. She used to be the club Catalina. She, uh, making trouble for you? Cut it. All right, all right. I didn't say nothing against her. All right, you better not. Okay.  Thanks. So, Gus, my cornball colleague, we, uh, we may not be seeing so much of each other hence. Oh, now look, you don't mean that, but hey, now wait a minute. What's going to be with our partnership here? We'll see. I'll, uh, I'll talk it over with Julie. No, no, Van. Now, look, I mean it. We've always done what we wanted to. Loafed all day, worked all night, hadn't slept at any crazy hour. Now, no dame is going to stand for that. Uh, Julie is different. No dame is different. Yeah, she knows how we operate.  Yeah, and she's not exactly crazy about me, neither. Uh-huh. I was just coming to that. Now, uh, if you want to stay in with me, be nice to her, huh? It won't do no good. Listen, Van, she'll make trouble between us. See, she'll work on that as soon as the knot is tied. I said... Now, listen to me. I'm your pal, Van. A dame like that is bad. Busy. You know what? The club catelita... Well, Gus, she wasn't exact... Gus, Julie is one in a million.  Okay, okay. If that's the way you feel. The way I feel. Pardon me for having any feet, hey. Well, just be nice to her. No cracks. Okay, so I'll be nice. Now, look, about Sunday show... I said be nice to her. If you're not, Gus, we're finished. Yeah, I said I'd be nice, but I knew it wouldn't do no good. Julie was a small town girl who sowed on Broadway after she had a bust up with Nick Edwards, the mug who runs the club catelita, and she wanted out, and she was going to take Van with her, too, so it came to me that I'd better figure out a situation in Pronto. She didn't like me because she was a scare to me. I knew about her and Nick Edwards, and Van didn't, so I says to myself, I suggest Gus, maybe the dame will scare away, hey. Where's it, Van? Oh, Gus Green, what a surprise. Hello there, Julie. Yeah, this is for you. Flowers? Yeah, yeah, Van told me about you, Tussi, and I figured... They're lovely. Come on in, Gus. Thanks. I miss flowers so much in the city. Back home, the garden's always full of them. Yeah, yeah. Say, this is a nice place you got here. Thanks. Yeah, very swanky. Wasn't that chair once in the lobby of the club catelita? Well, I bought it when they redecorated the place. Oh, sure, sure you did, honey, but it just reminded me. About what? I just happen to see your friend Nick Edwards today. I haven't seen Nick in months. Oh, sure you haven't, honey, but he's still carrying the torchola for you. I'm not interested. No, I didn't say you were, but you might be interested in the fact that Nick said, if Van Houser marries Julie, so help me, I'll kill him. Did he say that? Now, would I lie, honey? Well, that settles it. I've had enough of show business. Van and me are going back home. Oh, no, no, you can't do that to Van, Julie. This is his life. What's he going to do in a small town? I don't care. I'm sick of it. Sick of all the cheap characters, the bums, and the hangers on. If I want him to, Van will come with me. Oh, look, maybe he would. Well, I'm sure he would, but Julie, what I really wanted to say was, why don't you give me a few days? I'll go talk to Nick, and who knows? Maybe I can fix the whole thing up. Would you guess? I'd like to stay for Van's sake. I'd like to see him get a good job with regular hours, maybe an advertiser. Sure, sure. Nick will listen to me. Well, at least I can try, huh? Thanks, Gus. You're nice. I didn't know. And then I got another idea. What's that? Maybe the three of us could all work together. Oh, I can't write. I can tie. Well, we need a secretary. We could dictate our stuff to you. Well, I don't know shorthand. Ah, you don't have to. After all, what is a comedy script? Along the left-hand side of the page, you put the name of the character, and then you write out what he's supposed to say. Simple? Sounds simple. You could spend more time with Van. How would you like to try? I'd love to. Gus, it would be wonderful. Sure, it'd be wonderful. For me. When she said she'd work with us, Julie was playing a part in a situation that I dreamed up. And let me tell you, it was a good one. Because it ended with me still making a grand and a half per week in Julie Phelps. Well, Julie Phelps was just not there. Music chaser and a commercial. Credits and sign-off. Got that, darling? Every word, Mr. Halsey. Well, Van, how do you like our new secretary? Oh, she's good, Gus.  Gus, if this works out, I'll be the happiest person alive. Oh, no, you won't, Julie. I will. Now, come on. I'd like to try dictating. Mm-hmm. Ready? Okay. Take a clean sheet of paper. Here's a gag sequence for the Fred Benton show. Look who's writing gags. Don't laugh. Genius. Now, look, Fred's talking to Mrs. Mishmash, and she starts reading the wrong page of the script, you see? Yeah. Okay, let's go. Mrs. Mishmash. Please don't laugh at me. I think we've made a mistake. Mistake, uh-huh. Now, Fred Benton, I know I have. Mrs. M, let's start all over from the beginning. All over from the beginning. Fred, if you love me, you will. That's funny. No, no, that's charming. No, this is Mrs. Mishmash. Am I going too fast? No, no, that's good. Okay, this is Mrs. Mishmash again. I would do anything for you. Anything for you. Fred, he says, he says, I would like to see you. Oh, I'm bored. Mrs. M again. Let's talk this over. How about tonight? How about tonight? Yeah. Fred, when? At midnight. Mrs. M, come, come. I'm waiting for you right now. You're right now. Did you get it all? Mm-hmm. Type it right now. Oh, wait, wait, wait. What's the matter? Don't bother, Julie. We couldn't use that corn even on the Benton show. All right, wise guy. Give it to me, Julie. I'll file it under sustainers. Look, if you're going to fight, I'm not going to work for either of them. Van, be a dear and get me a pack of cigarettes downstairs, will you? All right, huh. But, Gus, don't try to write any more of those charming gags. Get lost. Gus? Yeah? Did you get anywhere with Nick? Well, yeah, Julie. He's soft enough, but he wants to see you. Gus, I don't want that man near me. Oh, look, you don't see him. You better start wearing black for Van. You know Nick Edwards. I know Nick wouldn't stop it killing, but I- Now listen, Julie, I haven't got time to argue with you. Now, Van will come back. But why don't you come to my place tomorrow night at 11? I'll run into Van for sure. Well, then come before eight and wait for me. We'll have rehearsal till then. What about Van? Tell him you're going to sleep earlier, son. What if he calls anyway? I'll cover you. I'll probably be with him anyhow. He must never know about Nick. I get it, I get it. Now listen, Julie, you just leave everything to me and in a couple of days, you won't have to worry about Nick Edwards again. Yeah, just leave everything to me and you won't have to worry about anything anymore, Julie Phelps. Not even your own funeral. Come eight o'clock the next evening, I paid a little visit to my apartment. Long enough to see that Julie was comfortable and also to get the keys to her place out from her handbag. I drove over there and went upstairs to do some interior decorating. My kind. Gonna take Van away for Broadway, are ya? Gonna send me back to 40 bucks a week and a pig's ear you are, Julie Phelps. Get that? And a pig's ear. Now, just one more touch to complete the situation. A little business outside the club, Catalina. Hey kid, hey kid, come here. Hey listen now, here's a dime, kid. Take this note and this here envelope and give it to Nick Edwards. And if anyone asked ya, say a game, a dame gave it to ya. You got that? A beautiful dame. You got it from a beautiful dame, right? Look, Gus, Gus, no more work. Let's knock on. What's the matter, Van? You tired? No, no, no. Well, what's eating ya? Well, you wouldn't understand. All right, so don't tell me I don't care any. All right, it's Julie. Said she had to go to bed early the night. So what, it ain't legal?  Uh-huh, afraid she's too timey, huh? I didn't say that. Yeah, but I know how you feel. Yeah, well, mind your own business. Look, my friend, I'll do ya a good turn. Leave me dialed the number for ya. The number's on the pad.  You could talk to her while I go down to my room to get my hat and coat. I'll take ya for a drive before we hit the sack. Sometimes you're even human. Okay, here, take it. It's ringing now. I'll be right back. I'll see ya. Hello? Julie, darling? Van? Honey, I'm sure glad to hear your voice. Where you been? Why? What, I've been trying to get you all evening. No answer, then. Then, best try. Van, dear, I told you. I was going home to get some sleep. When I phoned, you must have... Maybe, maybe it didn't wake me. Well, now, baby, that's hardly likely with a phone right near your bed. Sometimes I sleep. Julie, I can... Julie, is there someone there with you? Of course not, Van. I'm alone. I'm by myself. I'm... Julie? Van! Julie! Van! A very neat situation. You granted Wharton? Sure. Julie being killed in her apartment two miles away. Van hearing it over the phone and me in the next room to him at the hotel. You like it, Han Wharton? Yeah, I like it, so and I did it. That was a very sensational situation. More suspense? Roma Wines are bringing you Mr. Michael O'Shea in the twist. Roma Wines' presentation tonight in Radio's Outstanding Theatre Thrill's Suspense. Suspense. Radio's Outstanding Theatre of Thrill's is presented by Roma. That's R-O-M-A, Roma Wines. Selected from the world's greatest reserves of fine wines. Have you discovered how much Roma California wines add to your everyday enjoyment? For example, millions of American homemakers serve delicious Roma wines to dress up everyday dishes. To make even the simplest meals really delightful events. Yes, good food does taste better with better tasting Roma wines. And there's a delicious Roma wine to compliment your enjoyment of every dish. Juicy steaks and roasts taste their best with robust Roma burgundy. Fish, fowl, or any light meat become exciting treats with delicate Roma sautern or pale golden Roma rind wine. For entertaining too, you'll find better tasting Roma wine adds the gracious festive note that charms guests and makes any dinner a rousing success. So for extra mealtime enjoyment, that's inexpensive. Always serve Roma. That's R-O-M-A, Roma Wines. America's favorite wines. And now Roma wines bring back to our Hollywood soundstage Mr. Michael O'Shea as Gus Green with Sidney Miller as Van Hauser in the twist. A play well calculated to keep you in suspense. Van was still screaming into the phone when I came down the hall from my place a minute later with hat and coat draped over my very shaking arm. I opened the door. Gus, Gus, something's happened to Julie. Something's happened to Julie. Well, how do you know? Did you get her? Yeah, yeah, she answered the phone so. Well, she sounded funny like there was someone in the same room and then suddenly she sounded like she was hit or choked or something. Well, maybe it's just a gag she was pulling. You know, dames do that sometimes. You think so? Why, sure. No, no, no, it couldn't be. I heard her, Gus. Gus, what should I do? Now come on, keep your shite on, Van. The way she screamed. Did you call her back? No, no, I didn't. Well, why don't you? That's right.  That's what I'll do. Sure. Of course I'll call her. Hand me the phone. Yeah, yeah. What just happened? I know it has. Line busy. Oh, no, no answer. Yeah, but you just spoke to her a minute ago. Gus, I'm worried. I'm worried sick. Forget it. She's all right. Come on out for a ride. Oh, no, I couldn't. Look, tell you what I'll do for a pound. I'll drive you over there. You can check up for yourself. Van looked pretty grim as we drove over to Julie's place in the West 70s. I checked over everything I'd done and figured how I'd work out the rest of the situation. And we turned off Central Park West into the side street where Julie lived on the second floor of a converted brownstone. Hey, look, there's a guy coming out of the house. What? That's probably nobody's. He's making a getaway. Gus, follow him. I never catch him now. Oh, gosh, Gus, if you'd only got close enough to see his license number. Well, I did. What was it? LK573498. LK573498. All right, Sam Spade. Now let's go upstairs and visit Julie, huh? The door to Julie's apartment was wide open when we got upstairs, and the place was just like I left it. Like to have been some kind of a fight. And then, then I saw where I'd made a mistake. The telephone where Julie was supposed to be strangled was as neat as a pin. I watched Vann's face to see if he noticed it, but, well, he was too broken up to notice anything. Julie, Gus, she was a sweet kid. What do you mean, was? I know. She's dead. What do you know?  I heard her scream, didn't I? Gus, I waited 20 years to meet a girl that I could marry, so help me, I'm not going to die till a guy who did this is in his grave. You'll see. You'll see, Gus. I'm kind of mixed up now. In a little while I'll be able to think. I'll know what to do. Sure, I'll know what to do. Look, that's the telephone. What about the telephone? I'm going to call the police. You know, Vann, now, wait a minute. Don't be crazy. What? Look, put that telephone down. Why shouldn't I call the police? It's very simple. You got no evidence. She was murdered. But I heard a scream. Use your eyes, Vann. Will you use your eyes? Julie said she was in bed. Has the bed been slept in? And where's her coat? Where's her poise? And where's her hat? They're not here, but she said she... You're right, Gus. You're right. I won't phone. Maybe she's still alive. That's better. Now, look, Vann, sometimes we haven't felt too good towards each other, but after all, we've been partners for a long time, kid. Now, tell you what? I'll do anything. Anything you say to help you out. All right, then, look. Look, just on an off chance, Gus. Trace that license plate, will you? Let's find out who that guy was. We went back to our hotel. I slept like a log because I knew that Julie was 10 feet from my bed in the closet. Very dead. Where she couldn't come between me and Vann anymore. Next morning, I told Vann I'd checked at the license bureau. Whose car was it? Nick Edwards. Kathleen Edwards? That's right. Why that dirty goon? Look, you don't think that he... I don't have to think. I'll let the police... Now, wait a minute. Hold it. Look, Vann, I never told you this before, but I knew all along that Julie was playing around with Nick Edwards. With Nick Edwards? Yeah. That's why I never liked it. Now, yeah, better not call the cops. Maybe we was just busting in on a private little party last night. No, no, no, I can't believe it. No, not Julie. Well, we gotta find out where she is. And the guy who knows is Nick Edwards. What makes you think he'll tell? I'll tell you what. I'll call him at the club tonight and ask him over. I think maybe he'll accept me invitation. Well, Nick arrived at 11 p.m. and from my window I watched him park his black car in a dark side street near the hotel, just like I told him to. Then I carried Julie's body down the back stairs and put it in the luggage compartment of Nick's car. Nobody saw me. And a few minutes later, I knocked on Vann's door. That's you, Gus. Come in. Hi, Vann. Hi, Nick. Good evening, Gus. Nick was just telling me, Gus. Look, I'm just as worried about Julie as you guys are, see? Yeah. That's easy to say. Okay, okay. Don't take my word for it. But I've had her house called every half hour all day. Why'd you go there last night in the first place? You haven't been around long, have you? Never mind that, wise guy. Why'd you visit my girl? Who said she was your girl? She was engaged to me. She was tired of you. Why, you... Sit down. She told me so herself. When? Yesterday. Then you saw her yesterday, Nick? No. No, I ain't seen her since she quit working at the club and started to pile around with your friend here. But you just said that... Julie was the only girl who ever had me on the rope, see? But when she called it quits, I went along. She was too good for an ex-con like me anyway, I forget. But last night someone gives me a note in her handwriting. Oh, what did the note say, Nick? It was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. I read it over and over until I knew it by heart. Please don't laugh at me. I think we made a mistake. I know I have. Let's start all over from the beginning. If you really love me, you will. I love you. I'll do anything for you. I'd like to see you. Let's talk this over. How about tonight? When? At midnight? Come. Come, I'm waiting for you right now. As soon as Nick Edwards left, I told Van I didn't believe anything he said. And as far as I was concerned, Nick either killed Julie or had taken her away. Van agreed with me and we called the police. Ah, yes, it all made a perfect situation. The best I'd ever dreamed up. All of Nick Edwards' high-powered lawyers couldn't save him from being sentenced to the chair. Yes, sir, life looked pretty sweet, but there was just one thing wrong. Van's comedy was getting worse and worse. Fred Benton told us we'd have to get better or else. Now, we sat in Van's room sweating out a Benton program that was a day overdue. Van, Van, for the love of Mike, will you pull yourself together? I can't think. You don't have to think. I gave you the whole situation. All you gotta do is write the gags for it. Gags? Now, look, in the first scene, Fred and Mrs. Mishma steal a horse. But here's the twist. The horse is blind. You get it? Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, come on, Van, give. You know hundreds of horse gags. Now, just give them a twist and fit the situation. I can't. They just won't come. Look, if we don't get this script in tomorrow, Fred will can us. Now, come on, guy, will you write? Oh, write yourself. Van, you know I can't write. I'm no good without a gag, Van. But get yourself another gag, Van. I'm through. Look. Watched up. You know it won't work, Van. You know that. You write it on a QT. I was afraid that someday it would break up, but it never worked. With you and me, Van, something happens. We're a great team. Without me, you're just another guy making with words. Without you, I'm just another Joe. Now, don't you see, kid? That's why we gotta stick together. Even if we do hate each other's guts. That's why nobody can't never break us up. Now, come on, guy, write, will you? I can't think of anything. Look, how we got something in the files. Files? Files. You had a senior dictator to Julie. What was that? That Mrs. Mishmash and something.  I think we made a mistake. No, no, Van. Look, that's a no-good situation. That's dead. Let's get something new. Gus, it's a good situation. No. A very clever situation. All I need are the lines. Please don't laugh at me.  The lines. The lines. Please don't laugh at me. I'm telling you it's no-good, Van. Of course. Why didn't I think of that before? Those lines you dictated to Julie. They fit. No, they don't fit. And besides, I can't write gag. You know that. That was a situation. The most desperate situation you ever invented. Now, wait a minute. What are you beating your gums about? You'll find out. What are you going to do? Operator, I want to speak to Inspector Martin at Police Headquarters. Get away from that door, Gus. I got a gun. Now, don't shoot, Van. Wait a minute. Listen to me. Don't move. Police Headquarters, Inspector Martin. Inspector Martin, this is Van Hauser of the Julie Phelps case. Hey, I've been trying to get... Edwards didn't kill Julie. Gus Green did. And I got proof. That makes it even worse. Edwards says you framed him. Green did. Nick's note was a script dictated to Julie minus the character names. How about his alibi? He dialed his own number, Inspector, not hers. And killed her while she was speaking on the phone. To make things look right, he messed up her apartment. I never could quite figure out why there were no signs of struggle around her telephone. Now I know. He must have stowed her body in Nick's car. Better send some cops over right away before I shoot him. They're coming over, Hauser, to protect you. Edwards broke out about an hour ago. Watch out for him. Nick Edwards? Yes. Yes, Nick Edwards. All right, Hauser, come across with that gun. Nick, you heard what I said, didn't you? So what? I didn't frame you, Gus did. He's a guy with a situation. So what? You took my girl away from me, didn't you? No. All right, give me that gun. Now, Nick, wait a minute. What are you going to do with it? Nothing, except to give me that gun, Hauser. Gus, stop fooling him. Get that gun, Gus. I'm a little too quick for you, Gus. Now, Nick, please. Now, don't shoot me. Let me tell you how this was all... Cut it, you.  They put me in jail, remember? They're all stuffed to me now, see? But like they say, there ain't no situation that can take a new twist. Here's the twist to this one.  No, no.  What do you mean, Nick? Just this. The murder of Van Hauser. Well, they didn't believe me at the trial. So I'm up for killing my late, unlimited partner. But you know me, I always like a twist. They got Nick for killing Julie. Now I guess you can understand why I can't write the prisoner's annual show, can't you, Warden? Not without Van. And besides, like I said, I don't have too much time, do I? Before I go to the chair. Suspense. The twist. Starring Michael O'Shea. Presented by Roma Wines, that's R-O-M-A. Roma California Wines. America's largest selling wines. When your family and friends enjoy glorious gold and amber Roma sherry, or ruby red Roma port, you share the rich reward of choicest California grapes, selected and gently pressed at peak taste richness, with ancient skills and wine making resources unmatched in America. Roma master ventiners guide this grape treasure unhurriedly to full taste perfection. These choice wines then are laid down with mellow Roma wines of years before. And from these, the world's great reserves of fine wines, Roma later selects for your taste pleasure. Tomorrow and every day, enjoy this naturally better taste of Roma wines. Whether your favorite Roma wine is not like Roma sherry or rich Roma port, you'll find that every Roma wine is better tasting wine. That's why more Americans enjoy Roma than any other wines. Tonight's Suspense Play was by Beth Blau. Next Thursday, same time, you'll hear Donald O'Connor as star of Suspense. Produced and directed by William Spear for the Roma Wine Company of Fresno, California. In the coming weeks, Suspense will present such stars as Claire Trevor, Kirk Douglas, and others. Make it a point to listen each Thursday to Suspense, radio's outstanding theater of thrills. This is CBS The Columbia Broadcasting System.


I've brought a whole lot of things with me. I don't know if I'm gonna use a lot of them, but I was very intrigued by the scholarly, if you will, juxtaposition of what I take as your ultimate purpose and what has been the progress of that ultimate purpose in the past. My specialty in teaching both in the nation's two most prestigious war colleges, in my view, the Naval War College at Newport, and then the Marine Corps War College at Quantico. And my experience now for 12 years on three civilian campuses, longest at William & Mary, has led me to understand, I think, that scholarly division between Republic and Empire. Now, there was a lot of, shall we say, dastardly deeds done in the Republic, not least of which was from 1866 to 1890, the so-called Indian Wars, where we ethnically cleansed over 100 Native American tribes, generally to extinction or reservations that one could say were worse than extinction and still are today. So I'm not saying there were no crimes and ravages in the war with Mexico, for example, was. Okay, the war with Mexico, for example, was, as Lincoln said from the floor of the House of Representatives, an illegal war. He said, essentially, in his famous spot speech, show me the spot, Mr. President. Show me the spot where Mexico invaded Texas, because as most historians know, it didn't. We just wanted that territory. Interestingly, a story you may not know might be apocryphal, but I doubt it, because records weren't too good at that time and communications weren't too speedy. When Winfield Scott got to Mexico City, the President asked him by courier, should we keep it all? And Scott said, good Lord know, Mr. President, you don't want this place. And so all we took was Texas and a land equivalent of the Louisiana purchase from Mexico, including most prominently the most prosperous state in the Union today, a populist state, a state that has the fourth largest economy in the world and after Brexit will probably pass the UK and have the third largest economy in the world, California, which I expect any time in the next decade, perhaps before I go to my grave if I'm lucky, to leave this Union. Where I, California, I would. I was giving a talk at Iowa State University recently and a gentleman in the back stood up and took some objection to one of my comments and said, what do you mean? The Electoral College is a vestige of slavery and inhibits pure democracy. What do you mean? I'm from Wyoming and it has 400,000 and I can't stand up to that 30 million state next to me called California and I said, can I answer you as a corporate executive would answer you? Get thee into California. I would never tolerate the existence of Wyoming with two senators. When California sits beside it with two senators. I would never tolerate if I were a businessman, I would say to Wyoming, get into California because that's the only way I can consolidate and make efficient and effective my government, my management, whatever you wanna call it. But that's how badly organized the United States of America is today. Terribly organized. So terribly organized that now 40% of my army comes from seven states. 40% comes from seven states. Alabama with a population of 4.8 million provides more recruits for your army than Los Angeles, Chicago and New York with a combined metropolitan population of over 25 million. In Alabama the reserve components tell me that almost every male is a member of the National Guard or reserve. A lot of women too. West Virginia, the most obese state in the union provides an inordinate number of recruits. It is also one of the poorest states in the union. Right now, four of the 18 to 24 year olds would be eligible for the selected service system if we had a draft. Cannot be drafted, they're too obese. Right now one group cannot be drafted, cannot be recruited because they are intellectually incapable of passing the armed forces aptitude battery. So my army, my Marine Corps and by extension the National Guard did, when they go to recruit to one third of the people who are out there and I will guarantee you that Princeton and Harvard and National Merit Scholars and daughters of Congress people and so forth ain't gonna be recruited. So what do we have in the armed forces today? We have those people either because of poverty in most cases or because of a patriotism that goes to their family experience with the armed forces. That's the most powerful proclivity to enlist. Family, uncle, grandfather, brother, father, sister, whatever has been in the military and now that's falling off. With the millennials, that's fallen off a cliff. The millennials have the least propensity to serve of any generation your army or Marine Corps has looked at in its history. So it is a propitious moment for people who would like to stop this country engaging in war after war, indeed engaging in interminable war. What we have become in scholarly terms is a national security state. That means our raison d'etre, our reason for existing is war. And you don't need a new term for defense contractors, they are merchants of death. It's that simple. That may be a little bit too pejorative in some channels if you're trying to be effective but that is in essence what they are. Many of my friends, many of my former colleagues in the military work for Lockheed Martin, work for General Dynamics, work for Raytheon, work for Boeing, I still talk with them. Their conversations go something like this usually if they have a conscience. Well, I know what you're saying, Larry, but you know I have to support my family. You know I have to do this and I have to do that. Now there's reason there. What I usually come back with was what Colin Powell used to come back with me all the time when he said never be a beltway bandit or a defense contractor or anything associated therewith. Jobs, well they don't pay as much. That's true. I have a student right now. That's the other group that goes to these people sometimes. I do my best to talk them out of it. I don't try to talk them out of going to the CIA, the NSA, the State Department, the Peace Corps or any of those places though because if we don't change the people there, we'll never change the actions there. So I don't try to talk my students out of that. But generally speaking when my colleagues in the defense contract industry tell me that they're making lots of money, they'll also tell me how they're making it. And you haven't heard anything till you hear these people. And some of my students too who are now revealing to me after six or seven years with Booz Allen, Hamilton, Halliburton and so forth. What goes on? The latest boondoggle is cyber warfare. I'm sitting down in a Starbucks with one of my former students. Really bright guy, former E6 in the Army, went to William & Mary's last two years on the GI Bill, smart kid, came from Colombia. His mother still lives in the mountains north of Bogota. But every bit an American citizen and in fact probably more an American citizen than three quarters of the people I know in the Republican Party who were born here and live here. He says to me, you know, I may have to leave. I said, Sebastian, you're making a lot of money. He said, no, I may have to leave because you won't believe what's going on. I said, Sebastian, yes, I would. I've been there, done that, I know what goes on. So this is the new terrorist industrial complex as Colin Powell coined it a few years ago. This is the new one, the cyber terrorist complex.  That may well be true, but that doesn't mean we need $5 billion programs that we sell to the Defense Department or others that are as effective as nothing. That is to say, they're boondoggles. It reminds me of the time when a Senate staffer came into my office when I was Chief of Staff at the State Department, this was an epiphany for me in this regard. I knew things were going on, but I had no idea of the proportions of the things going on. And he said to me, you know, we're getting ready to vote in my committee on $100 billion plus, and we know the cost overruns are gonna be at least that much, so call it $200 billion program for a new family of satellites. He said there is no one in the staff or on the committee who has a clue what the consortium of defense contractors who are building these satellites are talking about. Led by Lockheed Martin, but increasingly now what Lockheed, Boeing, and others will do is they'll be the prime, and then they'll hire three or four of the others as subs. So this was a consortium of the last remaining big six, if you will, of defense contractors. I said, so you don't even know how to ask questions, right? He said, right. Of all the staffers on this committee, I'm the only one who has any experience at all with the NRO, the National Reconnaissance Office, and satellites in specific, and I don't even know the right questions to ask, I don't know the right points to ask elaboration on, and so forth and so on. I am lost too. What do you think I should do? I said, obviously you can't see me because you know that Colin Powell has some really powerful bona fides with the Congress and you're trying to get me to go in and get Secretary Powell to talk to the committee about this. Bingo, he said. I said, well, I'll try. I'll do what I can. I don't know if it'll be successful, but I think what you need really fast is a stop. Don't go any further. And let me tell you as a military man, right now I don't see the good that those $5 billion apiece satellites are doing for us to the price that they cost. And we had a real discussion about cost effectiveness, about the ratio between the price for the instrument and the product that the instrument produced. We had the same argument when we were abrogating the anti-ballistic missile treaty solely on our own. We said ballistic missile defense, think about this for a minute now. Ballistic missile defense was gonna cost at that time about a hundred billion. A hundred billion the armed forces needed for lots of other things, everything from mop gear for potential chemical defense to tanks and other weapons. There was absolutely no engineering guarantee that ballistic missile defense would work. There still isn't. And I don't know what the total now is, Bill could probably tell you better than I, but I guess it's well over a hundred billion in total expenditure. Military fought it tooth and nail, because they knew the other things that they needed. And they knew this money would take from those other things. Then all of a sudden you had to create this ballistic missile defense office. And then it just grew and grew and grew like topsy. And now your government is confronted with the situation that it may be embarrassed to majorly when someone shoots a group of missiles at us and it fails. And my prediction is it will fail. Bill Perry, former secretary of defense, as far as I know, the only one who ever served as secretary of defense, who was an engineer, a real engineer, said to me one time, I've done the study, Larry, I've done the study. We've never achieved more than 0.19 kill against any airborne target, never. We've played with that a little bit as we got four barrel Gatlin guns that would shoot at 4,000 rounds per minute and we got missiles and so forth and so on. But at the same time, the platforms got faster, their defenses got better and so forth. So we're still around 0.2. Imagine 10 missiles nuclear warhead equipped coming at you and you stop too. The other eight get through. Have you spent $100 billion for that? Especially when you needed that money elsewhere. And yet, you hear nothing of that today except every now and then around the fringes as yesterday, there was an article in the mainstream press about what if it doesn't work? The egg on the face of some people? We'll come up with something. We'll come up with something just as we've done during the testing of this system. We'll say, well, this part was not right or this part was not right. We fixed this, we fixed that. That's where we've come to in this country. That's what we've come to. We've come to spending trillions of your taxpayer dollars without the expertise even to justify that expenditure, even on a cost effectiveness basis. Your money is going out the door. Brown University convinced me, and I've been there and looked at their stats, that we spent four trillion since 9-11. The official, official total is about 2.7. Now we have spent that money, your taxpayer dollars. If you stretched it to the moon, it would probably go and come back twice with $100 bills. That's how much money it is. We spent that money on the probability of your dying from a terrorist attack, which is about statistically the same probability as your dying from a lightning strike. Go look at the Cato Institute's graphs on that.   Colm Powell was right.  The last time we really tried to do anything about this phenomenon called war, that was comprehensive, even you might say global, was as you all know, the Kellogg-Brion pack. I was reminded of that in Chicago recently at a Veterans for Peace conference. It's quite a remarkable document. I recommend you all go back and read. It's very short, it's right here. I'd read it to you, but I don't want to bore you. The signatories are, besides our Republic, under Woodrow Wilson, one would doubt that it was a republic, and the Imperial Empire of Japan, the sort of parliamentary monarchical Empire of Great Britain and so forth, and they all agreed to renounce war. In language, even though it's very short, language is really beautiful. 1928, I believe it was concluded, and then in 1929 in Washington we had a ceremony and made our signature apparent to all the American people. In 1931, one of the signatories, Japan went into Manchuria and established the puppet state of Manchukuo and arguably began the hot part of the Pacific War that would result in their defeat in 1945. So it didn't work. Recently, I got myself very heavily involved in what you might call a very focused, appointed, specific effort to do the same thing with regard to the most brutal war, and remember, Syria is still going on on the planet right now, and that's the Saudi UAE War in Yemen, where more than 500,000 people, yep, might die in the next weeks or so from a combination of cholera and starvation, and where the Saudis and the UAE are bombing almost everything, including the port and the cranes that offload food and water at that port, and they are blockading, naively, the ships with cranes that we have provided as replacement cranes from landing and being reconstructed so that the food and water can be offloaded. This is a brutal war, a brutal war. So I'm over with the Quakers, Friends Committee for National Legislation, a very effective lobby group. I found that out when we were lobbying for the Iran Nuclear Agreement for President Obama. I'm over with them and I'm in, we said it, we're going, we're gonna do it, Republican offices. Now we already had two Republicans, one from Kentucky and one from North Carolina on the bill, and we had two Democrats on the bill, Mark Pocan and Ro Khanna from California, and we had 26 co-sponsors amongst the Democrats and now we were attacking the Republicans. We went to the Senate and the House. Our vehicle was something called House Concurrent Resolution 81, and what it did was it invoked the Constitution of the United States with regard to the war power, and specifically that abdication of that power, partial abdication by the Congress in 1972-73 with the War Powers Act. We used that act, you get privileged status for the bill, which means it must go out of committee to the floor of the House, it must be voted on, to say the war in Yemen that the United States is participating in constitutes an illegal action under the War Powers Act by the United States, and guess what, that was President Obama, not President Trump. Some of my audiences are somewhat shocked by that. The excuse at the time that President Obama offered was that he had punished Saudi Arabia so badly with the Iran nuclear agreement, now looking more defunct than ever, that he had to do something with the Saudi Royals or he'd lose them.  Here is Donald Trump on the day he decides for domestic political purposes as the German Foreign Minister carefully pointed out to decertify the nuclear agreement with Iran. Here he is, this is a quote almost, might get the order backwards, but the words are right. Iran is spreading death, destruction, and chaos across the globe. Saudi Arabia is spreading death, destruction, and chaos across the globe. Mr. President, those guys you did the sword dance with, those guys who had more to do with 9-11 than any other state actor in the world, those guys who are still spreading Wahhabist, Salafist, terrorist attitude from Madrasa to Madrasa, from Pakistan to the Philippines. Those guys with whom the United States has been so embedded that I used to go to parties featuring Prince Bandar at his residence where I ate off gold with gold utensils and listened to Roberta Flack warble in my ear. And my wife turned to me and said, let's leave, this is the most ostentatious display of greed and obscenity I have ever been in. Let's leave, and we did. You saw Bandar in the film there. Bandar, in my view, is one of the most corrupt human beings and evil people who ever tread this earth. And many of his Saudi compatriots are. I'd say the same thing about the current air-apparent MBS as he's called in the acronym, Mohabin bin Salman, who started this bloody, brutal war in Yemen for no other purpose really than Saudi Arabia wanted to show it had a pair. And got the UAE to come along with it because the Emiratis are always with the Saudis. And so we cast off the most populous, cohesive country in the region. A country whose young people, and most of them are young people, virtually lust for what we could give them, what the world could give them economically, financially, and so forth. A country whose people are not indisposed to us, except at the top. A country that is the natural hegemon in the Persian Gulf. We testified to that for 26 years when the Shah was our man.  This is unconscionable.  This is what truly troubles me today.  Now, that's not to say they aren't smart. Richard Pearl, Bill Crystal, Nikki Haley at the United Nations, all those neo-conservatives are relatively smart. But smart is not necessarily what we require. What we require is people with a respect for the decent opinions of mankind and a respect for the American people, less those 48 million dominionist Christians out there who worship a Christ I never met in the Bible or elsewhere. Mike Pence, our vice president, being one most prominent of them. So if you lust for Trump, you'll love Pence. How did we get here? How did we get to this point where you have a man who's fought in three wars, who's been in the military, served nine presidents, seven of them in uniform, two of them in mufti, and I'm telling you, the country is in grave peril. Grave peril. As much peril as it's been in my 72 years on this planet, 50 of them I like to think, sentient years. What do we do about this? How can we do something about what's happening because I'm telling you there are two outcomes? And history screams this. My students say, wait, how can you talk about dismemberment of the state? My God, one of the most powerful forces in human history for 5,000 years has been states falling apart. Whether they're monarchical empires or they're democratic empires. And by the way, we aren't a democracy. Haven't been for some time. Not sure we ever were. Mark, 20 months from Mark. You know, if voting were so important, they wouldn't let us do it. He was on to something. But at least we had sort of the elasticity of democracy. The people could rise up in virtuous anger and it did make a difference. The last time I saw it, and President Obama himself said this to me, would John Kerry send him right beside him in the Roosevelt room? And four or five senators and several representatives said the same thing to me about the Hill. When President Obama was being pressed by John Kerry to put US ground forces into Syria, major US ground forces, they were getting ready to do it. And all of a sudden, the telephones rang off the hook. The cards and letters kept flowing in. The emails flowed in. The constituent visits picked up to one point where a senator told me, I've never seen anything like it and I've been here 22 years. The American people said no. And both the president and the Congress took heed and there were no major ground forces going into Syria. So it does work, but it's gotta happen and it's gotta happen in a focused, effective way. How would you do that today? Well, you're working on that. You're working on a long-term strategy. I'm sure you've got some short-term versions of it too. One of the things I think is important right now is this resolution. This resolution is the camel's nose under the tent. This resolution could embarrass the bejesus out of the Senate in the House. And what Massey from Kentucky, a Republican, said to me, I can't say it exactly because I'd be divulging words in confidence. But what he said in essence was I just want the opportunity to read this bill on the floor of the House of Representatives and have people have to listen. It is a very short, it's only three pages, a very specific bill. It does not poke fingers in the eyes of the Saudis or the UAE except indirectly. What it does is say, Mr. President, you are involved in an illegal war and the Congress says, stop. The people's representatives say, stop. And even if he only just gets to read it and the media picks up on it, then we start something. We start something that could possibly bring the war power back into the 535 people who constitute the people where it should be with regard to the Constitution. That would be a great start in my view. That would be a tremendous start to getting people in the country and most importantly in the Congress to thinking about how much power they relinquish to the chief executive. And believe me, I've seen that. In the three presidents I've served closely, I have seen how that power has gone to the White House in such a way, for example, that in 2002 it produced a nation willing to torture other human beings. At the end of November, I'll be a part of a commission in North Carolina. God bless the North Carolinians in this respect, some of them anyway. We've been after Burr, the North Carolinian at the head of the Intelligence Committee now. We've written in the Charlotte Observer, the Raleigh newspapers and everything, fired that bastard, get him out of there. He suppressed the torture report.  That Americans did, what is in that report is reprehensible, unconscionable and would devastate you if you read it. He suppressed that and we may never get it out now because they've tied the few copies that are still in existence up in legal paraphernalia that will keep them from your eyes for probably at least 25 to 30 years. We tortured people viciously in the name of freedom, justice and the American way. We rendered people and North Carolina was participant par excellence because the CIA flew out of North Carolina airports with North Carolina airplanes. And so we're having this hearing in Raleigh, the 30th of November, the 1st of December and we are going to as best we can expose North Carolina and by that expose the United States. We've got such stellar people as Alberto Mora, maybe William H. Taft IV and others coming, Powell's lawyer at the time, maybe others coming down to testify and to participate in these hearings. We don't expect to get anybody, President Obama wouldn't do it, to reopen this business. But what we're going to do is force at least the North Carolinians to recognize their complicity in this dastardly business. This is incredible what we did. If there was one issue, one issue that broke my back with regard to keeping my mouth shut, which is the tradition in the military. No matter how many crimes you see, no matter how many crimes you might have participated in, you go to your grave in silence. That's the military protocol, you're not supposed to speak out. The thing that broke my back was torture. I simply couldn't believe it. When Colin Powell walked into my office in 2004 and said to me, there are some horrible photographs gonna come out about Abel Graeb. Where's that, I said. Oh, it's that prison Sodom and Stain used to use in Iraq. Oh yeah, I remember it. What kind of photographs? And he described some of them to me.  President Obama again made a decision after George Bush made a decision not to expose those photographs to you. It would create too many terrorists. Why my God, the drone strikes are creating the terrorists.  When he told me what was happening, he said also to me, I want you to join Admiral Church in the Pentagon. Don Rumsfeld has appointed him, his investigator. I want you to be mine. Will Taft will handle the legal issues, but I want you to do the TikTok. I want you to do the technology. I want you to tell me how we got to this point. So for the next six months, I did everything I could to build what I call then a dossier on US complicity in torture. And when I came to share things with Admiral Church, it was a one way street. Admiral Church took everything I gave him that I could get my hands on and gave me nothing. And then when his report came out, I read it with great eagerness to find that throughout the report were things that echoed my own findings. But at the end, he concluded that even though torture was widespread amongst contractors, the CIA and the military, there was no clear policy implication. I mean, here you've got torture all over the place in three different entities. And you say they just did it because in Rumsfeld's famous words, they were just quote bad apples unquote. There was no policy implication. Well, even Rick Sanchez, the three star in charge in Iraq later had real remorse and said, I should never have done that. I should never have passed those instructions on. I should never have let that guy from Guantanamo come in to Iraq. By the way, that guy has been indicted, General Miller, he's been indicted in France and he can't travel anymore. I guarantee you, because the French will pick him up and try him. Recently, I was in Paris and we were talking about that very same individual along with several other things. The third day there, we had the opportunity to talk with a prosecutor from the International Criminal Court, very competent young lady, and she told us we've got a case working in Afghanistan. We're gonna bring war crime charges against the Afghan government, against the Taliban, and against the United States of America. I said, okay, you just killed it. She said, we know that. And you know what they've just done? They've just cut our budget because of that. So I said, how big was the cut is pretty big. So we can only take the very biggest, most difficult complex and what we consider to be the worst cases on. So we're probably not gonna pursue that one. So that's the way your country does business.  That's where we are. So you know why I speak out. Thank you.


Nicolas Susman, and we're back at Latin American Directions. And today we have the pleasure of having Vanessa Taza Castillo joining us for a very interesting discussion on abortion across the Americas. Vanessa is a Colombian lawyer and feminist activist. She's currently a fellow with the International Women's Rights Action Watch, Asia Pacific, and then activist at Siete Polas, a Colombian feminist activist collective. She co-founded. Vanessa, thank you very much, and welcome to Latin American Directions. Hi, Nicolas, and thank you so much for this fabulous invitation. I'm thrilled to be here and talk a little bit about abortion and feminism and everything related. Thank you so much. So Vanessa, let's start mapping a bit the situation. Abortion has been a very current topic in the Americas with a very strong movement in Latin America, and this week we're seeing a very strong movement in the U.S. with the League of Roe vs. Wade. Tell us a bit about this background, what's going on in Latin America, and how's the situation at the moment? Well, Latin America, as always, or at least right now, especially, you have good news and bad news everywhere, right? Because I think one of the lessons we're getting from Roe vs. Wade in the U.S. is that rights, liberties are never fully guaranteed, and you have to be always on the guard to protect them, to protect your rights, to defend them. So in Latin America, we're having good news and bad news, and the good part is that lately we've had a few better news or more good news than that one. And with this, I'm just talking about the cases of Argentina, Mexico, and Colombia, which have recently partly decriminalized or legalized abortion. It was Argentina that started that in 2018, but then it finally legalized abortion at the end of 2020 in the middle of the pandemic. And then Mexico did it last year, and then Colombia did it this year. So we've had three big wins, which I don't mean to overshadow what's been happening in other countries where abortion has been further criminalized. We have countries such as Guatemala and El Salvador passing very, very restrictive laws. The same as the U.S. It started with Texas last year passing this very restrictive bill, that restrictive abortion until the first six weeks of pregnancy. Other states in the U.S. have followed that example, and now we have the potential, almost imminent overturning of Roe v. Wade. So again, it's a very mixed feelings sort of scenario with some countries leading the way forward with very, very important setbacks. Right, and how could we explain this advances throughout the region? Are they related or are they unrelated? How does that go? They're absolutely related. And coming from Colombia, I think part of the Causa-Rusta movement, which was the movement that led the lawsuits that ended up in this landmark ruling by the Constitutional Court to criminalize an abortion until week 24. We totally learned from and adapted and included in the lessons we learned from Argentinian and Mexican, Canadian and Latin American activists in general. And a very specific example of this is that until I think 2018, the discussion about abortion in Colombia was very concentrated internally.  The conversation was not a wide public conversation at all. And that started to happen after what happened in Argentina. So in 2018, there was an attempt to legalize abortion through Congress. And the way the Argentinians just massified the conversation about abortion. So we got images and videos of the streets of Buenos Aires with lots and lots of women with green handkerchief. And what happened there is what we saw is abortion became something of the public agenda. And not just the feminist and recognized longstanding activists, but everyone at the table was talking about abortion. From the youngest women on Instagram to the most renowned politicians and talk shows on the TV, everyone was talking about it. And that was something that happened just naturally or organically, that was the result of a realization that in order to make abortion happen or to legalize abortion, everyone, or the topic had to be part of the public agenda. And there had to be public awareness and public receptivity of the issue in order to put more pressure on government in Congress. And that's engendered what we call the green wave, the Maria verde in Spanish. And then it started the entire movement in Latin America. So after we saw that, and we saw the Maria verde, we even adopted the green handkerchief. So we use that in Colombia as well. And I think all over Latin America we've been using that, which started as a symbol of Argentina, but then it pretty much diffused all over the Latin American region. And we basically copied that in Colombia. So after 2018, we took the conversation about abortion to social media. Many, many feminist collectives were born and they tackled the issue directly to the point that we've ourselves had very massive women protests in front of the court for international women's day with very, very loud demands for protection of sexual and reproductive rights. And I think this happens in the same way in Mexico when it's been happening all over Latin America. We've seen the feminist movement being strengthened by different, by women and members from different ages, different disciplines, from social media activists, social media personalities, influencers, to politicians, just scientists and doctors and experts, everyone is welcomed and it has to be part of the movement. So it's entirely connected. I feel like the advances in one country necessarily have an impact on other countries and neighbors, both the setbacks as well and the advances, everything I think has an impact on neighbors in Latin America and the Americas generally. Right, right. And Vanessa, why now? Why now? And something that catches my attention is that during the last, I don't know, four, five years we've seen a turn to more conservative politics across a region, left or right, but conservative. And in the midst of this trend to the conservative specter of politics, we're seeing a lot of these advances. So my question is, why now? That is a great question. It's very paradoxical. I believe that what happened in Colombia and I would say that it's something that also happened in other regions where we've seen some progress and abortion is that we realized that we were just there for vias, right? So since 2016, I would say, when very, very conservative government rise in the US, very conservative right-wing movement, sorry, government in Europe as well and Asia all over the world. And I think that that just empowered a lot of anti-right movements and groups to push for the elimination of a lot of rights, including abortion, but not limited to abortion. Having these governments in place just empowered them and then we were there just to react. So that's what happened in 2018 for us, for example. We had to organize protests and strikes three times because three times anti-right activists sued or presented or filed lawsuits before the constitutional court or filed lawsuits to strike down regulations and laws. They were the one leading the battle. They were the one filing the lawsuit. And we were just there to react. We were just there to protest and go to the court in response to that we're just very, very reactive. And that's when we realized two things happened there. It's a mixture of law and politics, which I adore as well. We saw that our constitutional court in Colombia was rejecting and rejecting and rejecting all of their attempts. So we were, we gained this awareness of the importance and the significance of our court in our country. That's what showed us, okay, we have a court that is welcomed, that welcomes women's rights and women's bodily autonomy. Why aren't we harnessing that? Why is it that we're just reacting and not being more proactive in the defense of our rights? And that's when we said, we, there's a very fertile scenario here amid a wave of conservative governments. We ourselves, we have a progressive court. That's our battlefield, that has to be our battlefield. And that's when we decided to file our own lawsuit. We were not gonna react anymore. And I think that I have a very similar analysis can be made about Argentina. They knew their battlefield was not the court, but the Congress. And I feel like the feminist movement has just been realizing that we still have institutions that can be our battlefield and we can use them. So instead of just responding to whatever attempt anti-rights movement made, we decided to be proactive ourselves. And I think that's the result of precisely progressive rulings from courts and progressive laws from Congresses. Right, that's very interesting. And I think it fits rightly in the discussion they're having at the U.S. right now. And it's okay. We know that the court is probably striking down Roe v. Wade, right? Let's go to Congress, right? The Congress is not helping either. So what do we do? And what are the pros and cons of going through Congress or through the courts? Not only the States, of course I understand this is a country by country discussion, but overall what are the advantages of going through one of the two ways? I believe that right now, especially in the U.S., and I'm not an expert in the U.S. politics or law, but our analysis now is that there has to be, first of all, a strengthening of the feminist movement itself in the U.S., which has been, I believe the word is, it's just diffused a lot. And this is something we've been seeing even before Trump got into power. And it's how right after Roe v. Wade, anti-rights movement organize themselves. And the result is what is happening now, where progressive movements and feminist activists and the Democratic Party itself, they just stay still, so to speak, right? Instead of taking the active decision of defending and constantly protecting the rights and further or expand the protection, we see President Barack Obama saying that abortion is basically something that's too controversial. There's already Roe v. Wade. There's no need to prioritize any laws on abortion because that's basically there already. It's gained, it's a win, it's there, it's a victory, right? So I believe the first thing we have to do and one of the main lessons from all those processes is that we cannot just stay still anymore forever. Once we have a ruling from a court, we have to go to, that's what we have to do. We have a ruling from the court, but that's not the end of it. We ourselves have to go to the Congress. We have to go to regulatory authorities. We have to go to the health ministry. We have to go to the people. We're talking about social decriminalization because it's not just on state institutions. It's also with the people, right? Social imaginary. So I believe there's many setbacks or drawbacks of going through Congress, especially with the political situation in the US and seeing that the Democratic Party, which is the party that you would expect to put this thing in the agenda, it's not just divided, but there seems to be a lot of hesitation getting directly involved with the issue. Nobody wants to, nobody from this side or from the Democratic Party or the progressive sides or very few people want to engage directly with abortion rights, speak about it explicitly and explicitly pass bills. It's just something that it's happening right now because of the leak of the decision. But it's been a conversation that's been constantly postponed. So it has to go to Congress for sure. It also has to go through state law and state Congresses. It has to go everywhere, but I would just insist as well in the social movement itself. We can't just deposit everything. I mean, the state is necessary because it's the state that's gonna guarantee your rights to health and the infrastructure to be able to provide these services. But it's not just the state. We have to, and one lesson that I think Latin Americans can give to the US is that you don't do this without the public and the people and the movement and the strong movements and involving everybody in the cause. It's not just women or specific feminists. We have to have everybody on the conversation. So yeah, I mean, we have to just permeate, I guess, every institution possible, especially now that the court is, or at least in the US that the court is, has a majority of conservative justice. Right. And Vanessa, how do you engage with the public in countries such as ours, such as Latin American countries which have a, I wouldn't say a majority perhaps, but have a very strong and very vocal conservative sector, right? How do you make, I don't know, I would say a minority, but maybe an alternative claim, a conversation of all the people and how do you gather sufficient support to create pressure on decision makers, right? So they feel safe to make this decision and they say, this is the right choice to do at the moment without jeopardizing or legitimacy or authority and even our well-beings as individuals. Sure, that's a great question too. Our lesson in Columbia, what we saw is, you can't just, you have to make a few concessions in terms of the arguments that you're gonna use to convince people that abortion is necessary and it has to be protected. And there's two things that I would highlight that really have some power of bringing more people into the conversation and lowering the guard a little bit and being more receptive to abortion itself. The first is that in our speech, what we said is what we're looking for is that abortion, abortion should be regulated and abortion should definitely be a matter of law and regulation and control. It's just criminal law has nothing to do there. Let's just not send women to jail for doing this. Let's have a, let's look for alternatives. And then what we did is what we found out in many conversations we had with family members and friends and we tested this as many people that are against abortion still are not convinced about sending women to jail for that reason. So that would be our, I guess, our framing. It's like, abortion has to be regulated and there has to be a conversation at the level of the state. Let's just not do this using jail or criminal law. It shouldn't be a matter of criminal law. And usually we would say most women either, I mean, a huge proportion of women either have had an abortion before or know someone very close that has had one. Would you be in favor of sending that person to jail?  And I guess what I wanna say here is that when you take the conversations with personal and empathetic level, then the tone changes and the attitude changes. And there's another very important issue that we highlighted a lot in Colombia and I feel like it's also very present in the conversation in the US and in Latin America generally is the issue of inequality that traverses or that cross-cuts abortion issues.  The thing is, if women of color, indigenous women, poor women, they're gonna be the ones bearing the burden of making abortion a crime. So we would bring the issue of inequality to the conversation and say, this has a very clear group of women that are gonna suffer and they're already marginalized for many reasons so we can just further or exacerbate those burdens anymore. So I feel like those two approaches were very useful for us. I guess that's also context dependent but in a country that's so conservative, we were able to make our way through conservative groups and conservative friends and families with these two, I guess, tools. One, talking about inequality and the injustice of the issue and another one to talking about what the consequence should be and whether a jail wasn't a very harsh consequence for just a poor women that's been raped trying to decide over their life. Right, that's very interesting. Also something else we've seen in the region is that even in the victories we have, abortion has been regulated in very different ways, right? My question for you is, which is the end game? Which is the objective? Are you fine with these decisions? Are you aiming for something else? What's the objective of advocates for the right to abortion? Yes, the end game as an end goal is definitely to eliminate or strike down entirely the crime of abortion. So for now in Colombia, what we have is what we call a combination between a temporal and causal system. So we talk about two kinds of systems. The first is a temporal one, which is basically limiting abortion or allowing abortions until a certain number of weeks. And then the other system is the causal system which is basically identifying a few reasons or justifications under which you're able to get an abortion, no matter what stage your pregnancy is in. Before this year, what we had in Colombia was the second system, so we had three reasons for which women could get abortions in any stage of their pregnancies. And now we have a combination of the two. And the reason why there are not enough and that's what we found in Colombia. And it's, again, something you can see all over Latin America is that whether you have a limit of time or a condition in terms of the justification for abortion, hospitals and social services services and servants and providers are gonna find the way to use those requirements to not provide the service. So that's what we saw a lot in Colombia. We saw women that got to hospitals looking for an abortion that were sent to three or four or five other hospitals because they were always saying, this is not the place where you should go. We need to go to this other place that they would give you the service because of your membership to the public health system, your income, many reasons. We had also the case of women that would ask for an abortion because of physical health issues and doctors wouldn't provide the service because they found that the medical opinion of other doctors wasn't enough. So they would send women back and send them to look for other authorizations from other institutions or doctors that were qualified. We also saw the case of women that were looking for an abortion because they were raped and they weren't provided the service until the lawsuit was filed. And at times even they would deny the service until the process had reached a certain stage and the criminal process. So every time you have a temporal limit or a conditional limit, there is a way for the service to be denied to you. So that's why it's not enough. So what we have now, it's great. It's a very progressive system. We have in Columbia 24 weeks in other countries, we have 12, in other countries, there's no temporal limit at all. But that's the thing, limiting the right is always, it's limiting the right. In the end, you don't have full bodily autonomy. So that's the end game. Now, it doesn't mean that we're right now looking for, you know, that now that we have this ruling, we're already looking for the complete decriminalization because we understand that there's a process that has to go on. But that's the end game, you know, at last. Right. And Vanya, just to get a bit of the insight story, tell us about Kausa Husta, your experience, how was it like from the outside, you see the ruling, right? You see the media campaign, you think that that was great, that was very interesting, that was admirable. But how is it from within? How did it came to be? Yeah, just, I just want to know your experience, go beyond the movement and get into the person and know how it is. Oh, Kausa Husta is just one of the best things that has happened to me in the last year. Because, you know, it's a great group that we have of different women and feminists from different backgrounds and contexts and disciplines represented there. You know, I am a lawyer and the reason I got into Kausa Husta was not because I was a lawyer, it was basically because, you know, I was part of a digital media collective. We did all social media things, right? But we're working together with women such as Ana Cristina Gonzalez or Florent Thomas, which are, you know, renowned feminists have been working on this for years, for decades, even. And we see people from all over the country. So we get in our meetings and we always have a lot of fun. There's always a lot of very interesting discussions. If I don't mean to say that, you know, because we have a common goal, it's not difficult, and there are no disagreements, you know, but we, in the end, we know we have an end goal and we always find the way to go through or resolve our issues and differences to find a way forward. So we work at any other, I guess, movement. We have a communications department. We have an incident or strategy department. We have a group of lawyers. We all communicate amongst each other. We use lots of groups. You know, we have sessions where we just go to work then we take some time off and just go for a beer after work and, you know, we have a lot of fun. We party. There was a huge party when the decision came out. It was amazing. And yeah, it's just, again, just learning that if you really want to achieve things, you have to invite many different people and audiences. And that's exactly what we try to do. Right. And then it just is a final reflection and this is not only about abortion. We could say this about any human rights issue that relates to the individual, but what's the relationship between the right to abortion and the future of democracy? Oh, wow. I just feel that you cannot have a full democracy. It's a part of your population doesn't have the right to decide over their own bodies and life projects. And that's the end of it.  You're imposing certain standards and certain life standards to people and you don't have a democracy when that happens. Right. So I do think that we just, you know, something we tend to say is like, we're second class women or second class people unless we have full autonomy over our bodies and our lives. And the way to do that is just legalize an abortion.  I think that's a wonderful way to close today's episode Vanessa. Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. Let's hope the fight ends one day. Thank you so much for your audience. We'll see each other in two weeks this West Latin American directions. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.