Is anybody there it's me. How are you? Oh good. Well, I have this crazy headset on Because I'm trying to figure out Why my thing doesn't work, but it's giving me a headache. I'm pulling it up Okay, now you should be able to hear me correct. I could hear you Yes, and I could hear you before with the headset on. Yeah, I I Like to use the little earbud things because they don't give me a headache But what they do is they cut out my speech and I just called for technical support and he has no idea He said call Microsoft which is always helpful. So I am not I just can't stand the headset Because I always feel like my head isn't a vice And I don't do you use a headset like that? I Have one that I use I haven't been using it Lately and just it's easier to not have a headset on and not wrangle with the wires as I'm trying to take notes and stuff Yeah, but do you have one that doesn't make your head feel like it's an advice? Well, it's pretty comfortable. I will say that Okay. Well this thing Certainly isn't I don't know I am not but I use the little earbuds and I tend to like them But they are cutting out my sound card and I don't really I don't understand. I'm very confused Anyway, who's coming to this meeting today from the town? It should be Chris and Rob Morrow Okay, and what about Guilford regarding all of those Things that Andy Steinberg sent out about Belcher Town Road and Heather Stone Road I have not been in touch with Guilford and so I can They seem to want this information, you know, they want our opinion like yesterday Because they're going to be begin digging this stuff up You know, I don't understand. They had this hearing. They had a lot of people from the neighborhood on heather stone They had all their forces out They all can't stand how fast the cars go. They don't agree about what to do about it Guilford has an idea to put these little tiny mini roundabouts at those three corners I don't know if you know that area. I do not streets are so close together Auburn wood and alpine and What's the other one echo hill road?  I mean, it's going to be ridiculous and I don't see how blind people if they ever happen to want to live there Are going to know Where they are That confuses me a lot. I don't think I don't get all those mini roundabouts if you look at those streets They're so close together. It's absurd I don't know I think the thought is that With those little mini roundabouts are so close together The that'll force the speed down to about 15 miles an hour I think that's really I mean the choice is either doing mini roundabouts or speed bumps Well, they don't want to do speed bumps because the fire department doesn't like them. Yeah, which I understand Yeah, and they'd be too close together also unlike, you know, the university has At least four firetruck links between the Speed bumps, but those would be much closer together So I don't really I don't know it doesn't make I could see I mean walking On sidewalks around three roundabouts within about what 500 yards or less It's got to be less. Are there even sidewalks? There are not sidewalks. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I don't think there's any sidewalks No, they want to put them in and some of the people in the neighborhood said yes And some of the people in the neighborhood said no That's all it was amourst you know, and it's like Okay, I don't live there and I you know, but if you want to buy a house Or if you want to rent a house, they're all private houses. There's no apartments there But if you want to buy one or rent one And you know, you I don't know those roundabouts just freak me out Because you don't know what direction you're facing ever How do you know when you're in and out? I don't know. They're I don't know. I'm very confused And it sounds very dizzying to me There's not many places to walk to In that no the only place to walk to is other places in the neighborhood. Yeah, it's other houses Yeah, I mean, but you know like you want to go visit people or you know, you want to You have a friend or you have to deliver somebody's package that got dropped on your step by accident You know, I mean it's it's a 100 percent residential Neighborhood that has a long street in it that connects a lot of these streets that go off of It on both sides and they The the people are going too fast on it one of the women in the neighborhood said yes people drive too fast including my husband And you know, yeah I don't want my kids driving. I don't want my kids riding bikes. That's what they all said. They can't ride their bikes That's and I get that it's not it's not like it has frequent traffic But it the but people think of it as a straight away Yeah You know, it's um I don't know, but anyway, that's one of the things and they sent out this thing. They want our opinion like what's my opinion My opinion is always make sidewalks. That's my opinion They're gonna have to do curb cuts Yeah Yeah, and they'll make them go the wrong way Well, let's make sure they make them go the right way Anyway, it's just so complicated Yeah And um, but I don't I mean, you know, he gives us like how much notice Not a lot and you know because they want to start digging the roads up. They have a small construction season You know, and we're in it now Why couldn't this have come to us in january? I don't know but Right, so um, I just got an email from chris that she uh says that she doesn't she did not receive the zoom in invite So I'm gonna just go off screen Okay, and send it, you know, I didn't get the reminder one like I usually do Oh, all right. I well But anyway, yeah, thank you for doing that. Okay one second Sorry, I'm late. Here I am. Hi, alice. You're not late. It's just you and marty from what I can tell Uh I think it's just the three of us at the moment four of us right actually Who's the fourth one Pam? Yeah, but she's not see four faces. Oh, she went away. Yeah She went away and she's doesn't count toward the quorum not yet. Oh, okay If we become a commission she will I think okay Yeah Alrighty All right. I got to find the right page here with all of these Things hold on. There it is Okay Okay, okay Uh There's Ian. Yay. Now we have a quorum whoo Sorry, I had joined the wrong link and was uh wondering why you couldn't hear me and and then I realized I was just as an observer Oh, where did you even get a different link? Um from uh Pamela's agenda? Oh, that's where I got mine Oh, that's weird Because we didn't get a reminder one this time at least I didn't I don't know either But I can usually one comes about an hour before Yeah And it usually works You didn't get that one either. No, but I had I had accepted the one earlier And so it came up on calendar Oh Webner one, yeah I never accept them. Are we supposed to accept them? Well, if you accept them then they go into your calendar and you don't have to go looking for the email You just look on your google count calendar and click on the appointment And then I also get a an alert About 30 minutes before telling me that the meeting's on in 30 minutes. Yeah, I don't have a google calendar But I um Well, I have the one I have the outlet calendar Yeah, they do that too. They would go there maybe. Yes Hi, sarin. Hi Hi sarin. Hi When Pamela comes back Let's see. What time is it? Is she's 11 33 As soon as Pamela comes back we can start the meeting because we are Quorumed now we are missing cody and jim Correct Correct. Yes. Yeah, okay Um in my right, I actually wrote up something in the last hour since you sent me that email. Okay I don't know if it would be usable But well when we get there sure Thank you Sure Soka Wait What what did somebody say?  I'm so sorry for yelling It's okay Now we know we need to know who saroka is Soka. Yeah Let them see you. Hold on. I wish All right, hold on So, um, I'm promoting chris, uh and as a panelist or at least attempting to do that Okay, there she comes Um and Pamela Oh, I'll go for dance here. So I am so uh Oh good Confused by what I've done and have haven't done that It's like I don't remember and he's coming in as a panelist as well I am unmuted. Okay. I've got a head muted Okay, we can start I think We have a quorum Yeah, we do can we there are a few more people that I'm just going to promote to panelists. So, um, Oh, sure. And then we'll get started. So Oh jim's here. Yeah Oh cool Jim is here Jennifer moisten is here Guilford is here.  Rob mora, just Rob mora, okay I will turn off my alerts because I can't hear the menu. Okay, so I Okay I do believe that we're all here Yep, except cody Yeah, and I am just gonna Come back over to read the The intro so It's now 11 36 According to the clock on my computer The disability access advisory committee is meeting virtually Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 this meeting will be conducted via remote means Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone See the instructions below No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted But every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means The first order of business is a roll call followed by announcements Okay, so roll call Well, everyone is here except cody But jim say yes Yes, okay sarin. Yes, elise. Yes Ian Yes, marty. Yes And myra, we are all here Does anyone have any announcements? um, this is in just a brief uh, uh announcement in terms of the agenda um, my colleagues myra badeo and kinderlay Cummings acres will be able to join us at 12 30 I don't know Shift that perfect. Okay Thank you Okay, so that that's pertinent to the pca legislative budget item So, um, I think we can go um Well directly, I think gilford you are the first person on correct um I think this item came from andy steinberg who is the chair of the tso Which is a subcommittee of the town council And they want our opinion about uh Changes that are being proposed to streets in heatherstone road, which is an echo hill and at root nine And I guess you call it belcher town road at that point um To add bike lanes and crosswalks And sidewalks um, and so gilford, um, I went to the hearing the belcher town road one There a lot. I mean, I'm sorry the uh The hearing that was had we're almost everybody who spoke was spoke about heatherstone road except me I spoke about belcher town road that I wanted to be sure that if you're going to put in Bus lanes and bike lanes that you put them in a way that's safe for pedestrians um, but do you want to tell us where you are with these projects and Um, they're they're about to get underway, correct? Um, they're going out to bed Aha, okay, other heatherstone is bid, but it's going to probably get pulled Um, and the belcher town road is out. It will be is actually out the bed right now When you said probably going to get pulled. What do you mean? It's probably not going to make this construction season It may get pushed to the end of the end of the season or next season the way people are talking Ah, so there's so much controversy about it that you can't do it. I don't know. Um, they just want to talk more um I didn't see on the agenda that heatherstone was listed I can Bring up the plan for heatherstone if you want to see it I think we got that we got the memos and everything that you sent Yeah, well, we also got the memo for pot wine, which I assume you're not going to do right That's not out to bid it's out to bid to and it's probably it's slated for in the fall Okay, so we don't we we have a little more time on the pot wine one Uh, the belcher town road one is the first one that you're likely to build then is that right? It is Why don't we talk about that one? Okay, so do you want me to share out the plans? Sure. Sure. Which one is that on the memos we got? Yes So The plan is a very simple plan. It's only it's only roughly 750 feet of sidewalk Which we was something that was talked about in the council meeting last night about How short and expensive these sections of sidewalk are Um, what we're doing on belcher town roads are starting by the cumbies. This is the Where's your mouse? Can you see it? Um, if you move it more slowly, I can find it. But if you move it really fast, I can't see where you're pointing Sorry Can you see it now? Uh, yeah, it's very small, but I can see it All right, this is the first driveway to cumbies and this is where the project starts so What we're doing is we're replacing the sidewalk from the cumbic cumberland farms to the entrance to rolling ridge Road no colonial village. Sorry That's that's the only 750 feet Uh, the sidewalk becomes a five foot wide sidewalk And then we have a five foot wide bike lane and then we have 11 foot travel lanes And that's the what we're doing the whole way We having one we're adding one crosswalk Oops Where is that going to be by the light? So the crosswalk is at the driveway to colonial village Okay, so this is the driveway to colonial village Right here Oh, okay Um, and we're adding this crosswalk right here So this crosswalk also lines up with the new development on belchtown road, which um Uh I can't remember the name of the company is doing it. This is the affordable housing the town is building Yeah the side Yeah, the driveway to that development will be over here So the crosswalk is between the driveway to the two developments colonial village and the new development So people will be able to cross from one to the other Specifically kids if they have friends in one or the other Correct kids coming from colonial village to go to school Correct. Um, the bus stop in this area is actually in colonial village So the closest bus stop the people would have to cross belchtown road and go into colonial village You get to the bus stop or if you get dropped off by the bus The bus stop is in colonial village. You have to walk out across the road to go home So this crosswalk is really there to provide access to the bus stops Easy access to the bus stops Where's the one on the other side of this on the north side of the street the bus stops? Yeah Both the bus stops are inside colonial village, but that's the south side Yes, they're both in on the south side In in the in the development itself. I don't have a drawing of that Uh You mean the bus That's coming from the east pulls into colonial village and the bus that's coming from the west pulls into colonial village Correct. Aha. Okay Okay So that's that's really the reason for the crosswalk um because if you were if you lived in colonial village you could walk down the sidewalk to Southeast street and cross the road there to go to school And you could do the same you wouldn't have to use the crosswalk if you lived in the new affordable housing You just walked down the the west the north side sidewalk to southeast street and cross But this is just to get you to the bus stop Got it. Okay.  Okay. There'll be no bus stop in this 750 foot stretch of the road So, okay one question geofford Uh, when the new school Is done and open So they'll the kids say they live in colonial village and they go to elementary school Are they going to use the same crosswalk to go to the other side and then Will there be sidewalks connecting that to the schools? Yes, there's there's two sidewalks on the road now those two sidewalks will stay one on each side And you can walk down either side of the road and go towards southeast street And it connects to a sidewalk that takes you to the school But this is shorter distance, right rather than go Get to the sidewalk on the southeast side and then walk that is a longer walk probably, right? um Yes But the crosswalk is solely so you can get back and forth to the bus stop which is in colonial village proper Yeah, but I mean should More consideration be made for students that might be heading using the sidewalks to get to the classes Um, it's it's the same distance. They have to walk now So actually if you cross the road you would save a little this little bit of distance If you're if you live in colonial village and you use this new crosswalk you would save a little bit of um distance to walk to the school because you could actually Will you cross here and you could walk down beside the bank instead of having to go all the way to southeast to the corner? Yeah, yeah And back to the back back to the school. So yeah, it is much shorter Yeah I'd like can you So I'm looking at the entrance to uh colonial village and I want to commend you for putting the Detectable warning pads perpendicular to the side. Can we go back to the The earlier layout. I just want to check the other bike cumbies Uh, there's no crosswalk at cumberland farms. Yeah, but you've got some curb cuts there. Don't you? No No, you don't have any curb cuts. Yeah, you don't have to actually put the Factile pavers at those curb cuts Okay, no no Because they the reason is they're not public They're not roads. They're driveways. Got it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Got it. Okay, okay Okay So you're right does look really good Cool in my estimation Well, this seems like it's a good thing It seems like you're going to make it safer It seems like there's sidewalks for pedestrians. There's a good way for pedestrians to cross the street There is no light at that crosswalk So what is there going to? Yeah, it'd be there are pedestrian signals You're going to have what what kind of Right on the corner. So where what's the light thing situation? There's the rfb's will be there the rectangular flashing beacons that you can push and turn on Okay, oh good There's two of those one and one Yeah, hmm, which they had them right in town here Okay, that's actually good that'll slow traffic down Yeah, hopefully Yeah, because it's a busy. Okay Does anybody have any I mean it sounds like well Okay with this it sounds like it's a good plan. I've had my hand raised for a while. Oh, yeah, okay go for it Um, I just want to ask a question about the bike lanes And the sidewalks is there a real depth if is there a different can you is there Do the bicycle is Is the I don't know how to phrase this is the sidewalk and the bike lane the same level and right next to each other or is Can you differentiate between the two? Yeah, good question there's the Sidewalk is a six inches higher than this the bike lane the bike lane is that road grid?  Thank you Perfectly designed. Thank you. Great. Excellent question. Good answer Great got to ask it Okay, I have a question Yeah And this is as long as we're in this neck of the woods Some time ago the town invested a fair amount of money Trying to make an accessible sidewalk on the north side of college street at that college street southeast street intersection you go by the little plaza with the dry cleaners and the Chinese restaurant and then past spirit house That sidewalk is in horrible condition. There's there's no way that anybody with any kind of mobility impairment Can navigate that you have to get down into the sidewalk I mean, I'm sorry into the parking lot and move parallel to the sidewalk if you're going to get anywhere I wonder if the town had any plans to repair that or reconfigure it There are plans to repair it. This um, it's probably next year or the year after when that'll probably get worked on The year after sounds like a long time from now There's a lot of things going on right now. It seems like a lot of work. We're doing it Yes Yeah um That one sounds particularly dangerous because it's a big road and a parking lot So there doesn't seem to be anywhere to hide from danger Is that your point jim? No, you're on your own I don't know how many people say in wheelchairs use that sidewalk, but it's impassable at the moment. So Um, it is what it is Okay, so I hope that uh, you might think about moving that to next year instead of two years down the road Anyway, the um, the next question and I don't think we have a lot of time to discuss it Especially because they're going to put it on the shelf, but it has to do with heather stone road um The people in that neighborhood could not agree about what they want In order to slow the traffic and it seems like the whole point of this is to repair the road Which is in bad shape and slow the traffic and people couldn't agree They couldn't agree about whether they want sidewalks They couldn't agree about whether they want the medium removed They couldn't agree about whether they wanted those little roundabouts And at this point, uh at some point I think that this committee should weigh in on that We don't have to do it Now, um because you're not even going to build it. Is that correct? It's just if it gets built it'll be later in the year Okay, so if we put that off a month or two Oh, yeah When I'm because I mean my personal opinion. I don't live there, but from the pedestrian safety standpoint you need sidewalks And if you can always build a sidewalk You're always going to have it safer for the kids who are riding bikes and for the pedestrians um, and so You know their problem was kids on bikes. Um And if you have sidewalks, there isn't as much danger and I know everybody loves those little roundabouts personally, I don't but Maybe I won't win any of that, but if there are sidewalks it makes it It makes it much safer for everybody I don't know if anyone on the committee has a very short thing to say about that because you're not going to build it right now I totally agree with you myra I agree. You're very safe about the roundabouts too Um, I don't know how you're going to do that and we'll stay tuned on the roundabouts. I mean personally I hate them. I don't know if this committee would like them or hate them But the sidewalks seem instrumental in some of their problem has to do with kids on bikes in the street Where the cars are going too fast and if kids are on bikes on the sidewalk It's totally legal in that kind of neighborhood for kids to ride bikes on sidewalks And that would make their kids a lot safer. Yes So anyway, okay, um, so we can have you back when you have more information about that and potline Steve Is that what is that what we're is that what you're thinking gilford that we don't have any emergency about either of those No, we can do that one and we can do potline next meeting if you want to okay cool. All right. Thank you Thanks for coming. Thanks for the good plan on belcher town. Just one second. What about one amity street and university drive? Well, that's far away That's kind of farther away. Okay. Yeah, we can do that the second we can do The heatherstone and potline one meeting and then we can do amity if you want to the next week next meeting Okay All right. Thank you. All right Thanks for thanks for coming. Yeah Okay, um Now what's the next oh now I have no speech again. What's going on? Oh wait, um The next on the agenda is the massachusetts office on disability applications meeting Okay, i'll tell you what happened here. Um, there was a meeting to which uh at which christ and rob and i and the other rob Um We're present. We talked about this is for the mod grant that opens may 1 and closes june 15 I think And the question is what does the town want to apply for under that grant and we came up with four Possibilities one is a reapplication of the monson library Uh, uh, the mission of the monson library application Which they said they liked but we got too many of them already and they had more grants applications than usual Um, and so we discussed finding out whether the town clerk plans to still keep that as a polling place Because that's part of the application So we had to find out if that was still part of what we could use The second one was to do a study of town hall entrance possibilities for accessibility Um, and so we would apply for study money so that somebody could come up with a plan um For how to do it wouldn't involve building it. We couldn't get that much money, but we could get Study money. Um, the third one had to do with mill river Oh gilford is gone too bad. Um to see about the um amount of Money that he has budgeted and what would be required to fix up mill river pavilion area accessibility and safety and the fourth one um Oh my god, I had it Chris rob you want to help me with the fourth one traffic signals. Oh, yeah There we go The fourth one was traffic signals to see how many gilford had in his plan for fy 25 and if we needed Additional money and we let him go and that was too bad. She's not looked on that But anyway, chris and rob. Have you spoken to gilford about either of those two that involve him? I haven't spoken to gilford and actually I missed that meeting um on the mass dot application And i'm sorry about that the mod grant application. That's right. I forgot you weren't there Uh, rob and rob were there. Uh, and I have not either rob. Whatchilla is following up with Getting answered to those questions as well as trying to determine if The study idea is fundable through that program Because there's some indication that it it may be more interested in shovel ready projects rather than Feasibility or design money, but he's he's looking into that as well Okay, so we can actually Pamela you were there. I'm so sorry you were there and not chris I'm sorry. My brain is like, okay um So the question is can we we can wait another month? For the answers to those questions, but the question that we would have for this committee is What would you think? Well, the next meeting is may 6 13, right? Yeah May no 12 No, i'm completely wrong may 14 11 12 may 14 That's two weeks into the application cycle, but you can still you still have a month to write it So I guess we need the information about what is a legitimate application by That time so that if this committee can give you some good input As to which one we think that you should use um for the For the town application the other question is does this committee have any additional ideas to put forward For the for consideration for the mod grant and we have no idea how much money we could ever get if we can get it at all So it's really a moving target I don't know whether it's at least here. I don't know whether it's appropriate to bring it up But in terms of the light signals I'm wondering whether we could have I know it's hard enough to get The ones that we have and all that bologna But I'm wondering if we could get like the lighted beacon thingies like other places have that you know in town That are not in town right now That could you know some of these crosswalks people just still buzz right by them Did they actually this is a really good question I don't know the answer At least did they ever install the ones up by garcia's restaurant there? I don't know. Where's that? uh What should we call it? Um Where between the spoke and your kinder from kinder park Yeah There are no you know what I mean by the lighted Signals the ones. Yeah, they were supposed to put them there when you push a button Yeah, there's nothing there's nothing in town I don't I don't see anything in town Um I gotta tell you I had a trainer come from the guide dog school to check on me and my guide dog And he saw us cross one of those crosswalks and he was shocked You know, he's like that's not safe for you That's not a da Because it doesn't have the lighted beacons and it's two lanes, you know, there's two people going in two directions I just thought I'd bring that up So the question is Pam marty somebody help me out with this they Or chris They were supposed to as part of the construction To mitigate the ill effects of that roundabout When they did the work on triangle street, they were supposed to be putting those beacons at um Cray street park. Yeah at pray street and by garcias Yeah, I never I use uh, are they there? I haven't I haven't I don't go there There's one near the roundabout, um, you know in in You know like on west street, that's a good one But my understanding was that they were supposed to be there So I think that's a question for gilford because we really don't have That control over when things get installed. So that's a real safety issue because even if You know, I I know, I mean Myra, I mean, how do you do crosswalks like that? I know we have to listen. Oh, I don't I don't there's no other way. I mean, there's so many of them in town And sometimes you just can't get across the street any other way You can cross by the church That's the only place you can really cross. I know but they're uh, yeah, right You're really screwed and yeah, there used to be triangle street, but they took that light away Um, so the only place you can really cross is by the church other than at the at the you know at At um, what you call it? So you have to wait for traffic lights. You can't use a crosswalk. No Um, so the the question is well, I wish we had still gilford still here Um, they were supposed to put those in a year ago Well, they're not in and they're not The street the cross that you know near the church and stuff and where you can go to cbs and you know At the crosswalk like right near the fire station There there should be lighted. There should be the signal thing and there isn't I don't know that there was ever supposed to be one there. Well, there's a crosswalk. There should be one Okay, I think Guilford is going to come to the next meeting next meeting. Yep. Okay, so we're going to talk about those Jen yeah for to be a question To be directly asked Guilford that that's on I just thought I'd bring it up. Uh, thank you for bringing it up It's a very very very good point. Okay. It's an ADA thing. Yeah, all right So if anybody has any other ideas alise has talked about more rapid flashing beacons um and Rob can you add that to the list that you talk about with gilford? I will yes to find out what the status is of the ones that were already approved As well as finding out which ones um, which other ones we might Uh That he might have in his pipeline. I don't know Okay, I think we have to probably leave that issue but rob and Uh chris are here. So we might want to jump to the issue of the accessibility of town hall And we put it on the agenda first we thank you for coming Um to talk about this we put it on the agenda because We were very upset at the way that the application to Uh for there was an application for a variance for the Um, so that the front steps of town hall didn't need to be made accessible On the basis of the fact that there was already an accessible entrance And so they approved it And they said all you have to do is put up signage and we said wait a minute wait a minute We didn't even realize that there was any application. We didn't realize we never were included in this process as we legally should have been And so a lot of people got very upset because the job got done And it felt to us like there was uh It felt to some of us like there was intention to leave us out of the process I'll put it on the table. Um And So we don't know where to go from here. I was glad to hear somebody I guess rob last week You brought up the town hall accessibility as a possibility for a study from the mod grant So, you know, we have to do it, but I think the committee has probably Some things to say and I'll open it to whoever wants to speak first I'd like to speak myra Okay. Um First of all, I'd like to review the application Number one, let's talk about the process the process Of the variance is that it must go to three entities before The board in Blosten takes it up You have 10 days to respond to it and the three entities that has to be submitted to Is the DAC Stavros and the local building inspector So that's the first thing and we didn't get it obviously um, I'd like to Point everyone to page two of the application block three Description of the facility Town hall main entrance from public way on boltwood avenue Accessible ground floor entry is located on north side of building with elevator vest to be able directly inside entry door That is patently false I'm going to say that I'm going to be very blunt about this Secondly on page eight um Paul Bacham and signed as a declaration. I declare under penalty of perjury That the information provided in this application and supporting documentation is true and correct Now I sat in the meeting with chris and rob about 18 months ago And you all admitted that you knew that the town hall was not accessible so Paul signed this and perturbed himself Now we've got another situation and that is that the amended notice from the MA a b granting the variant On the condition That wayfinding signage is provided at the inaccessible entrance You've now put a sign up that is directing people Who are mo have mobility impairments particularly people in wheelchairs On an extremely dangerous path It's exceeds the slope requirements Once you get down there None of it is correct So you you've created A major risk for the town by putting that sign there I think you need to figure out how you're going to fix this because There is no accessible entrance to town hall And if the board had known that MA a b would not have approved this And i'm very disappointed in Our town's professionals, but the building inspector and the planning department because you knew this And it's wrong And rob you should have pointed this out when you got the application Um, I'll shut up now, but I am extremely disappointed in this And one option is to go to the MA a b And they that will make them scrutinize every single variant you file from here on out so Well said marty. Thank you Sorry Yeah, as a professional it just Is a smack in the face And as a user I experienced that Yeah Christine Yes, hi, um, I'd like to apologize for Not having passed that document on to da ac Rob more handed me the document and at that time We had lost two staff members and one of them was the Liaison to the da ac and I didn't Know that I was supposed to pass that document on to da ac. I thought it was just informing me And so I apologize. I'm very sorry that that didn't get to you Rob did his job by passing it on to me, but I didn't know that I was supposed to pass it on to you So that's why you didn't You didn't get that so It's you know something that happened and I apologize for it and I'm not um You know, I guess we I would say let's figure out what we can do from here Okay, I think actually the truth is that rob should have passed it on to pamela and not you Chris because pamela is is the liaison To the da ac and she's the one who should have received it It doesn't say it needs to go to the planning department I think we were in transition at that time and I'm not sure that rob knew that pamela there was a year ago Yeah, I mean pamela has been working with us for well more than a year Anyway, we can we the question is where do we go from here? But I'm not sure you were supposed to be in the loop in the first place chris Um, so we do have a serious problem because There's a situation um That I mean as marty points out potential liability To the town is pretty great if somebody who doesn't know the situation and uses those signs to go to a An accessible entrance that isn't accessible and gets hurt So there is a situation for future liability. I don't know how likely it is, but it's certainly possible and and there is um There is the question of what we should all do so Does anyone have a proposal about what we might do vis-a-vis the d a the m a a b Um rob Rob wants to talk. Okay, right go ahead Thank you. Um, I do believe that when we Delivered the application pamela wasn't designated Staff liaison at that point, but you know, I'm happy to hear you know that we got that wrong but um Pretty sure we followed the same procedures that we we normally would with delivering that to who is filling in for moreine at the time um There there are a couple probably, um Maybe difference of opinions on some of these these technical pieces that We don't need to really get into great detail about but um As far as the town manager signing the application it was believed that the entrance Is accessible and it's the accessible route that we are aware of that I I'm happy to hear your comments, but I'd like to at least make my go ahead. I've heard this one before Okay, um, so this is the interpretation that was made at the time is that the door itself Was accessible Through a prior project and the accessible route needed improvement and We are very much aware of that. We've had conversations with the town manager about A capital project that could design and improve The accessible route and it's just one that hasn't been funded yet, but we are very interested in working on that um, it's a tricky situation where we Intersect with the public way The front of the building sits right on the property line and the public way line and we've worked uh during the north common Uh project design project with public works about improving that whole area And it got so challenging in the design at that point that they chose to stop it much higher up on the sidewalk at the west northwest corner of Town hall so that you know, that's where it ended at that point, but there was a lot of conversation And more that has to happen. So We definitely, you know recognize in fact that the parking lot was repaved 12 years ago and this wasn't addressed In a project that didn't go through the permitting process. So Um, it is something that we know has to happen Uh, we continue the conversation about getting capital money and then more recently when we talked about the mod grant as a possibility We thought well if it's available Uh, designing this because it may be more complicated than Uh, you know an accessible route from a parking space to the door We may actually have to come into the building in a different place in order to make this work because Those grades are very difficult out there on the sidewalk And any way to to blend those together to a proper transition may may not be able to be accomplished So we need some study money to really look at this hard and survey work take measurements and decide the the best approach and You know move forward with a capital request to do the work I'd like to speak to that Being on a public way does not give you a pass The code requires that you have an accessible path to the accessible entrance from A drop off point which was which is within 200 feet of an entrance Or from a public way And you have none of that And you knew that And you still went forward with this I would have lost my license if I had done this. I'm sorry you have Made a major error And if the board were to see this I can guarantee you That the MAAB would not be pleased with this I've been very quiet about this But I am not going to be quiet about it now Because redoing those front steps flies in the face Of everyone else who takes their life in their hand Trying to go down that hill in a wheelchair You have put a sign that puts people in a very dangerous situation You're going to end up Losing control of a wheelchair going down the hill hitting the the curb and Be flat on your face This just flies in the Whole idea of accessibility and for this town To do this is just I I just can't believe it.  You've said it beautifully May I add something? Yeah Um, I did want to mention that you know, we weren't in favor of the sign I didn't propose the sign or request the sign and the interesting part about this process with filing the application to the state It's dealt with in a way where we have no involvement with the The hearing of the case we cannot give testimony. In fact, I was emailing The executive director as I was listening to the meeting because there was information not being presented Properly so the the decision the discussion all occurs among the board members Without the applicants involvement or testimony And the result is what we got, you know, so so, you know, I would have Like to have discussed the sign a little bit Um, I actually did have a pretty detailed conversation with the executive director prior to the hearing explaining the situation and That the grading from that direction is not the most desirable location to send traffic But we cannot, you know, we cannot Participate in the discussion or answer questions. So I don't think the board maybe had a full picture of what was going on And we never presented that there was an accessible route from the parking spaces at the rear Which I think is the problem that we have to address It wasn't part of the discussion And just to an earlier point, uh, marty that I believe this should have been addressed in the 1998 renovation of the building when the actual trigger to create an accessible route and entrance Was a requirement It was a requirement because now It was a requirement because the 30 threshold of the of the building's assessment was triggered, uh, was exceeded back at that time That did not occur here. This was simply the replacement of the front steps Which the work itself is required to perform. It isn't a trigger to report require work, uh, in other areas to be repaired But it's a it's a argument that anybody can make both ways because I think you can say that We're out of compliance from 1998 You know, we're out of compliance from a long time ago and there is not a grandfathering to those situations We're still obligated to bring ourselves into compliance We came became further out of compliance when we repaved the parking lot in the accessible route 12 13 years ago and didn't make the improvement So there's no doubt there's problems And and we're we're going to look for a solution, but the front steps That project was not the solution We need to find the solution which is Having the town manager fund a capital project to the facilities department, which I am coincidentally responsible for And move that forward and have a have a Proper entrance designed and constructed, which is what we are committed to do Oh, it's good to hear. I would like there's something Sharon go ahead I'm glad at least there's something in the plan. So I don't want to look Back What is done incorrectly is done. There is nothing we can do about it But maybe They could give high priority to getting this fixed now. They're aware More aware Of the problems of the accessible entrance And maybe there could be a temporary solution until a better Um Solution is decided upon and my I think I brought this out once before Maybe the there should be in the supposedly accessible entrance from the back Parking lot there should be some safe zones where people in wheelchairs can take To enter Into the building because it's a one-way street and people coming in their cars They don't know if there is somebody in the middle of the road. They can easily Hit somebody crying struggling to get to the accessible door And also at night time too when the vision is more limited So it seems to me we have two problems one We have a sign that points people in a in a in a direction Uh, that's dangerous Yeah, we have the other problem is that We have a topographical problem that has not been solved Um, you could say that 30 years ago it needed to have been solved And for some reason nobody was aware of it aware Or nobody that came from the state Said anything about it I mean, there's there's a lot of fault Around and 12 years ago I don't know what they did with the repaving of the parking lot However, we have a problem We have a problem which is that not only can citizens Who need to use the surfaces in town hall not get into it But nobody who uses a wheelchair can work at town hall So if you end up Needing to use a wheelchair Any employee of the town who works in town hall if you end up needing to use a wheelchair You cannot go to work And in many places you would not have a job and the town is not allowed to do that under the ADA So it has to get fixed It has to be that people who use Wheelchairs have to be able to get into the building to access services and to access employment Point So, you know Who should have done what last year whatever? I don't know. I mean, it seems to me maybe The town should write to the MAAB instead of Us writing to it because we are a consumer board essentially we're a town board that based on Uh people with disability not having been Approached appropriately Because if we had been we would have objected Um and there would have been information that they had and they would have not had a pro forma hearing like they had And it would have been handled differently There would have been requirements placed on the town So either we can do it and we can say we were cut out of the loop by by um administrative error Um, um, but that, you know, there's stuff that happened that shouldn't have happened or the town Can do it and the town can say that you know that there is a problem Caused by a lot of inaction over many years But that that their recent decision is problematic from a safety perspective Pamela, you're the lawyer. How should we do this? Uh, I I'm not sure that I can give you my legal opinion I'm not small you're on this part like that, but you know more about this than the rest of us do So, um Yeah, I'm gonna plead the fifth on this one I would if you had nobody mind I'd like to read something and I want everybody to think about this So under jurisdiction for 521 cmr, which is the accessibility code of massachusetts It says If the work costs a hundred thousand dollars or more Then the work being performed is required to comply with 521 cmr in addition An accessible public entrance and an accessible toilet room telephone drinking fountain Shall also be provided So that means if a hundred thousand dollars is spent on town hall And I'm sure those stairs cost more than a hundred thousand dollars That's the first thing you have to go to in the code Is look at that You cannot do any more work in town hall With that solving this Because it's really hard to do something for less than a hundred thousand dollars These laws are here for a reason And the town hall has the town has Ignored that I mean you've done many more renovations over the years And you should have known this And I have a question. Why didn't the architect of record submit the variance? That's typically what's done Rob So two things are I'd love to continue this conversation with you because I have a difference of opinion And I've gotten some guidance on this over the years. So, you know We don't need to take up the board the the entire committee's time But I definitely would like to talk to you about that Because there is a clear distinction in the code between entrance and accessible room and what's triggered out the language You just read The the fact of the matter is we didn't contract with the the architect The contract was not engaged There wasn't funding available at the moment to engage the contract or the the architect To do the design work. We had maxed out our allowable design contract money under our procurement laws with Cune riddle and we weren't able to extend their scope for this And the application seemed pretty straightforward. We were also under a pretty tight timeline because the North common project was really Scheduled to start sooner than it had and these steps were In such disrepair that they were settled Six to seven inches lower than where they sit now and that really needed to be done first So I think compounding all of those things, you know moved it along as quickly as it could To try to get us to the point where we could bid the construction project for the Stairy building So wait, I just want to make sure I understood what you just said You said you did not have an architect for this project because you had no funds for that. Is that correct? The so we're permitted at a cap amount to contract with an architect And we had Hired the architect to do the design work for the for the stairs. We had Then by change order increase the scope of the the architect's work for construction drawings and construction administration which took the The project with the architect to the maximum and this is following the advice from our procurement office the maximum amount I believe it's 30 000 that we were able to spend with the architect and when we Knew that we had to file this application. We felt there was something we could do in house We felt that you know our through myself our facilities manager the town manager If we needed to talk with and be Participate in a meeting with the aab which we weren't needed to anyway We could have done that. So we chose to move forward with filing the application on our own and not And not have the architect do that for us Okay We don't know where we should go from here, but we have to go somewhere because we have problem And we already heard that we're not sure that the mo degree d-grant will even cover design Money all right Study or design money for this. So I have no idea how much it will cost to design or study this I uh, I mean there's a part of me that says if we go to the maab and tell them what happened They're going to hit you with a time frame that you have to meet For uh to make this accessible. Is that is that what you would think would happen rob or marty? So, yeah, I mean there's a lot of there's a couple of ways we can address this first of all We want to do this project. I mean, you know, so I you know, I am responsible for the facilities department We talk about this You know pretty regularly in our list of projects as we're trying to keep you know roofs in good repair and HVAC systems and all things we're trying to do. It's a very high priority of a project You know as you're talking about this It makes me wonder is there anything we can do immediately? As small as it might be to improve this situation and you talked a lot about the sign the sign I don't think any of us really liked or wanted, but you know Should we for example change the sign or ask the aab that we change the sign to You know entry from the rear parking lot, you know, or I'm not sure what it would say, but is there a better not perfect Uh situation that we could get ourselves back in front of the aab and ask for essentially a time allowance to Bring this project forward and maybe that would be something that would put Uh more of an emphasis on it Priority to the finance people that decide on our capital plan and what gets funded and what doesn't get funded And whether we do that as a facilities department following up on this project or Part of the work that's going on out there. I mean, I think you know the argument that We don't have the accessible route from the parking space across the The public way sidewalk to the entrance on the north side There's similar argument about the pavement that's torn up right at the base of the stairs that's still on town hall property So, you know, I mean, I think we could probably if we wanted to get ourselves in front of the aab I'm not sure the process I can look into how we ask them to let us participate in a discussion Rather than they just handle these what I think they call them incoming cases now Where they just run through them as a as a border committee and not not talk about them with the applicants or the designers So I think there's a we can think about this some more and and probably have a better plan at your next meeting But you know, we can We can come up with you know A more solid approach to getting where we need to be. I think we all want to get there Okay, so this is all good and I guess um, I guess My question for the dac Um, as I said before either we tell the mab that something Is amiss or the town tells them and I think the town. I mean, we are the town, but we're not the town in this case um I think if the town were to tell them that that we know there's a problem and that we would like Help from them as far as Uh, you know that we need a timeline or something. I somehow I think it would be better I don't know would it be better if we write to them and tell them we were not consulted and we would not have approved and This is a problem and there is no accessible entrance because of the because of the route and blah blah blah Or is it better for the town to do it? What do you think dac and I guess we need to do this sort of quickly Will the town do it? Well, there's rob says he will if he finds out how I will not communicate with the dab ourselves Complaining about what was overlooked by the town. They're aware of that And you may come up with a plan what they are going to do it But not wait for they'll apply for this grant and it will take another five years for this No, no, it should be on their top priority list to do The question is how do you put it there? Because rob can say whatever he wants about his intentions, but he is correct that he doesn't control the finances Well, then I guess maybe we need to hear from the town manager Because he controls everything Right. He oversees everything and this is a issue they violated that Maybe by mistake And they have to fix it immediately when there's doing lots of big Construction in front of the town hall. So this will be an ideal time to find money someplace And address this issue And do this immediate study right away if we can get that commitment From the town manager Saying that finances they will Figure out something I think you have to get it from the town council To tell the town manager to make sure it happens. Is that right? Um, if you don't mind a couple thoughts on that, um, and and I don't want to Make this seem like I'm trying to get out of this by offering to do anything because I I don't believe we're in violation For what we just did with that project and the filing of the application and I understand there's disagreement about that But I what I'm in agreement about is that we want to move forward with this. So in the most constructive way I see this as Maybe give me a little bit more time to figure out. First of all, do we have funding available? You know, maybe we have some money available that we could start design or study work immediately And and start to build a plan But but really truthfully this would probably be a Um, if we were able to do that move forward with design on a faster Schedule we're talking about an fy 26 You know capital request Unless there's some other funder source that comes up in the meantime. So just so you have an idea that's that's typically how our world works so we and it would be something that we'd have to all kind of be together on because What other the other thing that the the finance people like to see is a request out in the five-year range working its way towards The time that it's ready to be Funded and this would be something that would just kind of pop up On the on the schedule. So I think we can work through that Whatever you decide to do, you know with with filing yourselves For assistance from mab or other organizations, you know, that all that does is kind of stall the process for that investigation discussion and You know paperwork to cross back and forth interested when everyone's ready Let's look at how we design this and work it into the capital plan and hopefully get The work done that needs to be done I have a question Yeah, go ahead go ahead That was marty. Did you say you had a question? No, okay. So my I was just going to interrupt for a second to Just make you aware that the two guests that Ian and Okay, so This is a tough one. Um Okay, so can I just ask one question before we move on rob you said it has to be f y 26 um at the earliest we as far as I know where's We don't even know all the things that are going to go forward in f y 25 capital planning is still talking about f y 25 not f y 26 I keep getting emails Yeah, you're right. And you know, I guess I'm just seeing the things that are coming off the list, you know From from capital requests. So, you know, if if it's okay, I can try to To put together, you know, a better discussion about this for your next meeting Both about our current budget our f y 25 requests What opportunities might exist through capital funding for something like this in f y 25 and 26 and Come back and talk more about that. I just I don't if you can come up I I like that idea of coming up with A money that can be found In f y 25 as a temporary solution toward a permanent solution In f y 26 if you can do something with the back door with the parking lot if you can do something with Whatever you can do But I think I think yeah mistakes have been made Um, I guess we're going to go at the moment at least most of us will probably go with They were not intentional But this has to be This has to be Fixed because the m a a b believes we have an accessible entrance to town hall and yes, we do when you get to the door It's accessible everything beyond the door is accessible. We know that we've said that But getting to the door was something that maybe people didn't even know how to figure out 28 years ago Or maybe the wrong people were involved. I don't know and I don't know who the you know um, there's a lot of there's a lot of inaction that You know has We can't go back on it But we do have to do it now and the I We have to discuss And if you could get us that information about where you're going to find money in f y 25 um, even if it borrows from another project and where you're going to find um, where you're going to prioritize f y 26 And whether the m a a b has to order the town to do it in order for the finance people to come up with it That is really a good question to me because if they order the town to do it It's more than oh, these people want that Um, we could be ordered to do it because we filed an Application that they may or may not believe is wrong. I mean, you know you You say there is a lot of that there are two sides to every issue And they're usually are So if they decide that we didn't do with you know that that nobody did anything wrong Then they decide that but at the moment we do have a problem and they have to be told that their signage solution is dangerous and Whether you tell them that or we tell them that is something that we'll discuss at the next meeting But they have to be involved because they made a decision and they gave instructions that are unsafe um And so if you can come back to us in in may with a plan about What where you can find money? Um about who is aware, um that we really need to do this That's fine. And one thing that we had always intended to do Was to get a man named jeffrey duggan who works for The mass office on disability m o d. He comes out and he makes site site visits About accessibility physical accessibility. He's the one who runs the accessibility certification program for people to get certified as trained accessibility analysts and he could come out here and he could be part of the Uh, the decision about you know about the advice not decision But he would he could give advice about what our plan could be Yeah And I and I do want to contact him Um, and I think this committee will contact him because we want help about what might be done The question about when it's going to get done and how it's going to get funded And how m a a b is going to be told that they made a decision that To put up signs that are unsafe Based on in complete information That's for next month. Does that sound like a plan? We contact him you get what you need to get And we come back and in may and figure it out Myra, this is Ian. That sounds good to me. I would just add something we've talked about on the committee before and sarin mentioned this earlier just the access to Being able to vote and how this is an issue of the franchise and a civil rights issue might also Speed the process along further That's the only place we can go for early well one of the few places we can go for early voting Right that's covered in the town services park. I mean, this is not an insignificant issue Yeah, and and and if someone God forbid works for the town Who all of a sudden can't get into their place of employment due to illness or injury? They're going to feel very differently about this This is not 1920 where we shutter people who can't get around and who can't see stuff and who can't get into buildings This is a different world and everyone on this call has the potential to not be able to get into town hall Whether you can get in now or whether you can't But everyone has the potential to not be able to do the town's business and to do the citizen's business And to have a job there so I think it's really really a critical issue and I think the maa b will too and Okay, so next month we're going to come up with you're going to tell us if you have found any money What the process what you can do about f y 26? What people in the town think should be done about informing the maa b about the signs? I don't advise you to take the signs down without their permission because they told you to put them up Does that make sense? It does to me Does it make sense rob? Yes, okay. Yes Okay, all right. Thank you. I this was very difficult for everybody. I'm sure uh, chris your apology Is there was I'm sure very, you know difficult Um, and I really I don't think you're in the loop here. Anyway, um I uh, thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for helping us with this Thank you for your interest in solving the problem at long last a lot of the time things get solved because they have to be And things come to a head and everything ends up better. So that's what I'm hoping for here Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Okay, Ian, would you like to introduce your guests and the topic that you brought to us? um, yes, so uh, myra bideo And kinderly Cummins acres are joining us from 1199 seiu And they are here to talk about uh, governor heli's proposed. I'm sorry. Could you please explain the acronym on the union? What's the name? Um, actually, maybe I'll I'll let them explain further about the union, but seiu stands for service employees international union Thank you. Myra Okay, I'll just hand it over to them. Um to talk about the governor's proposed budget cuts to the personal care attendant program Sure. So hi everyone. Uh, good afternoon. My name is Myra. Uh, but mine is two and we never meet There you go And so I'm the lead political coordinator, uh for 1199 I'll let kinderly introduce herself in a few uh moments And so, uh, we just wanted to uh come today, uh, or Ian asked us to come today to talk a little bit about the program, uh, the PCA budget cuts and just what the program entails and what does that mean, right for personal care attendants And consumers, right? So we work very closely with the disability community And um right now, um, we were able to get um, we represent let me backtrack. We represent about 58,000 um PCAs across the state personal care attendants Um, within that you can assume that we have thousands upon thousands of consumers that need PCA services Um, and so we were able to go back to the negotiation table this past year PCAs were finally uh able to get not what they deserve, but definitely we're able to get a really great contract Um, just to turn around and have her say Um, well now we're gonna have some budget cuts and what that means is That not only will the PCA suffer from these budget cuts, but also the consumer And so what she's saying and i'm gonna have kindily elaborate a little bit on this Is that any consumer? um that has on the program um that has 10 hours or less Which we know that any consumer that starts on the program gets about That those hours 10 to 13 10 to 15 usually when they start the program Will be left without any hours or any help and so then in turn Um, that means about 9 000 PCAs will be left without a job Consumers will then have to either get family members to help go into a nursing home And so that means that they can't live within their home. Um, and stay at home, you know, um And be and be okay, right like that's the the goal right after you've worked all your life After you've done what you have to do you just want to live in your home with dignity respect peaceful, right? And not be in a nursing home, right? and so I think The other thing is that the state I don't understand why the state even thinks that because it's going to cost them a lot More money to have people go into the nursing homes, right? um, I also I should have elaborated that we're a health care union That we represent about 80 to 88 thousand members across the state in health care meaning nurses some doctors and some Affiliate groups out in the eastern part of the state. We have coley dickinson out here. We have all the bmcs We have all the storage shops And so we have radiologists x-ray techs. We have phobotomists. We have personal care attendants. So um EBS workers so all the realm of workers we have nursing homes as well and so I say all that to say that, you know, it's really detrimental that we fight back. So we have not only Done a lot of demonstrations, right? Since she announced the budget cuts, but we also are aligning with our disability community to make sure that these cuts do not happen because Since the program started we've always worked very well with the disability community Understanding that it's not only about our members the personal care attendants But it's also about the disability community working together to make sure that we have the best program in place And so i'm going to turn it over to my co-worker. I work on the political team. So we I work like helping The uh personal care attendant organizer to really work on the legislative side of things right to make sure that our Uh legislators at the state house are advocating on what they're supposed to be advocating putting pressure on right And making sure they are aligned with our priorities. And so then the personal care tender works directly Um with our personal care attendants and in part works with the disability community So uh kindly why don't you introduce yourself and let us know a little bit more about the program and some of the things that we have done So good afternoon all I am kindly. I am one of the pca organizers and I cover all the western massachusetts um and our pc i'm just going to backtrack on some of the stuff because our pca program um We cover about 450,000 thousand healthcare workers and out of that 450,000 there are 80,000 Home care workers and out of that 80,000 there are 58,000 pca's across the commonwealth all right and when governor healy signed off on our contract Which was historic like pca's have never ever gotten everything they've asked for Which was wonderful and we appreciate that because pca's deserved it And what she then tried to do is or what she's trying to do right now is when she released her budget cuts She's trying to backdoor the pca program, which means 117 million dollars She wants to take away from the pca program in turn Six to seven thousand consumer employers would lose services So if they get under 10 hours off the program And that's not fair. So we are standing in solidarity with our consumer employers So bill hinting from the boston independent living They all our disability community allies are the ones in front and we are standing with them on these issues right Because it affects them and it affects the pca's right not just that but I found out at my community forum from um, Angela Ramirez who works at star veers that governor healy is also trying to cut Meal prep time So therefore even if your consumer is kicked off the program It's also going to affect the rest of the consumers and their pca's All right, so She's trying to do some sneaky sneaky stuff We are not going to accept it. We are having community forums all across the commonwealth We went to her office About two weeks two or three weeks ago to boston to advocate for consumers and pca's We are then in turn going again on our lobby day our advocacy day may 15th Because she needs to know That we're not going to accept this right You all are not going to accept this correct Absolutely not Absolutely not And the only way that we can win if we is if we are all standing in solidarity Right now she says that you know, she appreciates the pca program She has benefited from the pca program, but yet and still you want to turn around And and cut services from our most vulnerable, right? We have consumers that are home We have consumers that still work and they can't do this without pca services And we need to stop it any questions I think the only thing I want to add to that. I think it's pretty powerful is the fact that Not only does she want to cut the meal prep But that money that she's gathering from the pca program the 117 million that kindlea is talking about It's a little more complex, but she's giving a tax break Yeah to the millionaires right to the rich so She's giving that money that comes from that pca part of money to the rich I mean, I don't think they need any more money, right? We need to be more funding into the program So, yeah, sorry about that. They definitely don't need any more money. Yeah, all right at least we are And at least here I just want to clear. I just want for my own clarification So if somebody has a pca coming to their home and they have less than 10 you said less than 10 hours pca time They get kicked off the program She wants to do yes, and when does that start happening? Well, we'll get the results of her budget cuts today Oh my god. All right. Thank you for answering that Yes, you know Like my or I was saying Where are our consumers going to go our consumer employers going to go Her nursing homes rehab centers Hospitals what where are they going to go? They want to be at home So I'm gonna keep my stepped dad at home. That's terrible.  Yeah, um in order for Our consumer employers to be home or working or whatever it our jobs are hand in hand with you guys, right? um And this this program is very very important. It is Extential. This is what I tell the pca all the time. You guys are extential workers right And yeah, so we're gonna see what happens today What she's going to do about not cutting this program We do have a lot of our legislators on our side and on your side Okay, I'm and if I guess we Are not successful then we are asking our legislators to make sure that goes to the finance committee And we stopped by that office two wednesday or three wednesdays ago And they said that they would stand with us on this so we just have to wait and see what happens Oh Thank you. So um just one second. I'm in my room. We're having audio problems where we cannot hear you Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you can delay and And and my real lead political coordinator Myra Ross our committee chair. We cannot hear. I'm sorry. I forgot about the two Myra's Nope, we cannot hear you Myra Ross. Yeah No, she might have she might have to disconnect and connect again She's not muted. Kindly when when you said that um, we'll know today Does that mean the governor will make a decision today about the budget? Or Sorry, the budget will be released today. So we'll know anything and everything that'll be in the budget Yeah Is there any other questions? So, uh, I have a question. Um, how can we be More actively involved. I know Um, I'm a pca user myself and I get all these emails that we should contact the Healy's office and at this stage How can this committee assist you in that struggle?  Okay. I would say just continue continue to call her Continue to call your legislators your Senate senators your congressman your, you know Making sure that our elected officials are on our side You know, um Myra, I don't know Maybe you can help me with this on advocacy day Um We are going on May 15th. Um Myra is consumer employers able to go that out. I'm not really sure Um, I think we need to ask to make sure that the buses are accessible Um, and if the buses are accessible, absolutely, I don't see why not Um, but what I would say what I was going to say is I think we should wait for the budget to come out because I think, um There has to be some type of action That we have right because every action has a reaction, right? Um, and what I would say is I think at this point, whatever the budget is the budget's going to be Um, but I think if we need to put pressure here there or like we don't know what that's going to look like I think we've done our due diligence And making sure because we've done a lot of actions Um, just the other day.  Um, you know Saying we're not going to stand for this. Does anyone hear me now? Yes, we can. Yes, you hear me now. Okay. So I want to try to focus this. Um, first of all The the governor made her statement and I don't think she's going to change it because it's not in her hands right now Except at the end when she has to sign it It's in the hands of the legislature as far as I can tell it's in the hands of the house So, um, I have written to Mindy Dom and I've written to Joe Cumberford I got a response from both I talked to Mindy Dom And she is 100% on the side of Keeping the funding the way you are. She is our representative. Yes um and so the thing that we can do from here Is the thing that this committee can do is decide if they would like to make a statement on the part of the People with disabilities who receive Fewer than 10 hours of PCA service or who need more than seven hours of meal prep Because they've cut the maximum from 13 to seven. That's what the meal prep cut is um and Uh, so those are the two things that need to be restored to their current Um, and I guess I'd like to know from people who Uh Who maybe get or or provide PCA services If people get less than 10 hours a week That's like an hour and a half a day um Is Is that There are people who get an hour and a half of day plus meal services. Is that what you're saying? Yes So currently they might get 24 hours 23 hours maximum that would be cut which is almost three hours a day Which is a lot actually I mean, PCA doesn't count meal prep. Okay. Got it. I mean even if somebody gets an hour a day There at this point. So that would be you know, uh seven hours a week 14 hours every two weeks But we all know right as consumers you guys can use those hours as you feel fit to use those hours So it may be that on one day a consumer may feel really sick or have like, you know, um a really important, um Uh appointment, right?  So the PCA is usually work around whatever the consumer needs are And so there might be people there might be people who would get like two or three hours A day three or four days a week, but not every day and I know this because I know recently I know someone who needs help with a shower who doesn't really need help with very much else Right, but but needs help with a shower and if you take three showers a week And if it involves, you know, everything that a shower could involve Um, it could be an hour and a half Yeah, each time And you might not need anything but a shower and there were reasons to not yeah so I guess what the committee needs to do is um inform I mean, we need to take a vote that um I don't even know if the I don't know where this is in the legislature right now, but this is not a governor healy Lobby thing right now because she's not going to change that and it and it doesn't matter because the legislature is Deciding on the budget now Well, myra, um what we were talking about just if if I may um and just my two cents right my recommendation would be Um, so today the budget comes out, right? We've done our fair share our due diligence as I was saying On doing a lot of demonstrations. Um, a lot of uh, and it's not the first time we've done it and she's changed her mind Um, we've been able to put a lot of pressure Before and we've been able to be successful Okay, it's what 11 it's what 11 99 does right? um, and so What I would say though is um, we don't know right what that budget is going to entail But what I do know is is that You know every action has a reaction like I was saying what I think is uh powerful is the fact that Um, we're going to continue because obviously we represent so many personal care attendance across the state um We're going to continue advocacy which I think is number one um number two I think that no matter what happens. It's continuing to put pressure continuing to call continuing to uh Being able to say send an email continuing the call whenever we have meetings I just want to put that out there whether it's in holy oak springfield chicopee wherever we have the meetings We always say consumers family friends neighbors personal care attendance You're all invited because as we said before we work very closely with the um disability community And so you guys are more than happy to come and so like that we can continue working together Okay, this committee is representing disability community. That's our job. Okay. We we um, okay That's our only job And and so I would say that what we need to do to do at this point is decide How we want to proceed politically if we want to proceed politically from this point from an advocacy point of view um with our legislators and with the uh the finance committee that Well, we don't even know what's in the house budget. So If I could say something please do I I don't think we want to try to finesse things too much that houseways and means budget should come out pretty much any day Um, but the money may not be there. So Then we'd have to advocate with uh for amendments and then after it comes it past Passes the house. It has to go to the senate Uh, and so the senate has their own process although it's very abbreviated compared to what the house does And then if it gets out of the senate Then the governor still has to sign it Uh, and uh, you have to go to conference first. I I think we're still talking about Advocating with the house and advocating with the senate and letting the governor know where we're at with this So if we do, uh, a statement along the lines that you've already suggested Um, ira and get that to our state senators and state reps and get it to the governor I think that's the right track to be on Okay All right, so we need to have a statement That supports and I think it needs to be written from the perspective of The people with disabilities What the needs are what things are done for people who have what people the people who are going to be cut What will they lose and what will the state have to pick up instead of the pca? So if you I'm sorry to interrupt you but um, I just want the in has been trying for a couple of times To get into the conversation and I think that he did write a draft of proposals. So um, oh Wait, you did write one in I just this morning actually in the hour since you Okay, and you and our meeting. All right. Thank you. All right. So do you want to read it? Yeah, can I share a screen as well? Sure But you'll still have to read it right right, and I'll need to make you co-host so that you can do that. So, okay Well, you got it Um, can people who are able to see the text? Yes Um, so it's titled resolution opposing governor Healy's budget cuts to the personal care attendant program Uh, the first line whereas the care provided by pca's ensures that consumers get to live with dignity and respect at home And whereas governor mora healy wants to cut $117 million from the pca budget, which one in turn affect 6 000 consumer employers and pca's And whereas 6 000 consumers. Whoops That should be a plural 6 000 consumers who have less than uh, 10 hours will be removed from the program Which will in turn cause pca's to ultimately lose their jobs And whereas the governor's proposed budget, uh Also cuts meal prep time for pca's and their consumer employers, which will affect the whole program And whereas the governor proposes to give big businesses a tax cut off the backs of consumers and pca's Therefore now be it resolved that the town of amherst opposes and rejects the governor's proposed budget cuts to the personal care attendant program Be it further resolved that the town of amherst sends this resolution copy of this resolution to the Sorry, I need to fix that part there but to representative mindy dom senator joe comeford and governor mora healy Well, if you're looking for you're looking for a resolution from the town council Um, this would be uh, something that we proposed to the town council to pass Okay Okay, so what do people think? I think it's it looks really good, but i would suggest when you say consumers you say consumer employers Because every meeting every Whoever I sit down with and it's a consumer they like a consumer employers Okay, that's us. I don't even know what that means. Anyone someone on the committee. What do people on the committee think please? I think it's a very good statement and it would be more Heavy if we get it passed And presented as a statement coming from the town of amherst rather from the d a a c committee of the town But what's the timeline for the town council to consider this? Where are we at with that? um, I haven't yet Spoken with I would probably talk to pat de angeles our liaison um and ask her to be a cosponsor um and then Uh, it might be a three-week timeline to to get it through GOL does that sound correct to you pamela? Yeah, so that is my only concern. I think that given um The agenda that's on town council You might get bogged down and waiting for them to seek approval But we could you could ask pat and she might have an inkling about whether it would go through more quickly um and then um We could also reach out to athena to ask her about Whether she thought um, she might be able to get it on the next town council agenda I think if you did a letter of support from this group You as a group could make that decision and do that right away And that would still not preclude you from also seeking support from the town council But you could make a decision You know relatively quickly and and pursue a town council resolution That sounds like a good idea. Pamela's idea sounds like a good one I think myra raised their hand from the camp Yeah, a 115 meeting. So I just wanted to say thank you for having me. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for coming And nice meeting everyone. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Thank you for coming. No problem. Bye Bye All right, this is not the kind of resolution I expected Um, I do not think that the town council will approve this I would not vote for this because it gets way beyond the scope of people with disabilities um, it has to do with um Tax cuts for the rich which I Totally opposed don't get me wrong, but it's not relevant to what to what our um, what our What our Purposes here. I mean if we want to send something I think and I would not support this if I think what we need to send to the legislature is very clearly about People who use PCA services What they will be losing how it will impact their lives And what it will cost the state in you know And the fact that it will cost the state much more money in the end because some people who get as little as 10 hours plus 13 hours a week Of service would not be able to stay in their own homes and would have to go into facilities I mean, that's what I would support I I think this is way too grand and I I think I would if I were on the town council I wouldn't vote for Not because I don't agree with it, but because I don't think I don't think it's Where we need to go right now. I think we need to get money back for the people on you know Anyway, that's what I think. I don't know what anyone else thinks and myra was at that last line about the Big businesses that that Caused that reaction or or the entire Resolution. Oh, well the end part. I think is I mean, you don't have any data to back that up there.  I I think um I think I don't think it's our job to be advocating for employment I I think ours our purpose our charge It has to do with people with disabilities Um, and I that's that's the extent of it I don't know if anybody else agrees with me, but that's what I think I have a Something in my memory Thousand that did a couple of years ago the town was very actively involved with aging in place Do you remember? Yeah. Yeah, they didn't do anything that I know of. Yeah, I know and there was a big move and the town was very Involved with it. Yeah this budget cut that they have the PCA program for getting 10 hours or less a week If that is the breaking point these people Cannot be able to stay in their homes alone on their own. So this will be With the move the town at you know, a couple of years ago that will have a big impact on it So maybe we can approach the town Saying that we strongly support people Aging in place as they get older. These people are not people like me that use wheelchairs These are seniors that get that need more care So it they are going to be eliminated from the program and they can no longer be able to sustain their living In their own homes. So maybe that might wake up some interest in the town committee May I make a suggestion? Yes. Yes So I actually think it's um that all of the things that have have been said are true And that Ian maybe if you were to write the resolution that looks at The impact of the loss of PCAs on the on on both um People who are elderly Younger folks who use that families with disabled children Like there's a large spectrum of people who use Who use these services and the loss will have a huge impact not only on those people who are In town who are trying to age in place, but you know a ton of other folks as well. So And people use PCAs At different times in different stages. So it might be Uh, um, I know that we I used uh, we had PCA coverage for my mom for the last five years of her life, right? Um, and some people have them for a longer for the entire life But there's a range of things of services that are offered and when there is a loss of The provision of services it has a huge impact on a range of different families And so if you I think take some of the information that you have um Include some of the things that sarin and myra have Mention, then you'll have you can just sort of change the nature of it. Yeah a little bit And it is possible for you to redraft it for um, and for us to for If the if the committee takes a Decides to move forward with this With having a letter from the From the committee then um Then you can redraft the letter and and you know send it to myra and And get her approval and and it could go forward or you could bring it back I don't think you want to wait until next month because of the Timeliness. Yeah, and I don't think the town council wants this is not um, the town council I don't know I don't know. I think I think lobbying the legislator legislature is what we need to do And I think we need to talk about the real loss two citizens with disabilities or citizens who Are Guardians for people with disabilities or however it works. I don't even know how that works But I don't think we can get into the tax code And I don't think we can get into how many people are going to lose their jobs That is not our charge. That's right. That is not our charge I can agree with everything you've said in and I do agree with everything you've said, but that's not our charge um our charge and And to prove to the state that it's pound foolish and penny wise You have to say what's going to happen to some of these people Like if you can't get a shower in your own home Or if you can and and meal prep like somebody could come in and put frozen Food in your fridge that they cooked once in the two hours that they were there And you were going to eat it four nights that week You wouldn't be able to stay in your own home and that if that that you need to you know That you have people who have PCAs Usually need people so regularly that You can't just have somebody Come in and do it for free people aren't going to do it for free You can your neighbors aren't going to do it. You know your friends aren't going to do it's one thing If you break your leg and you're going to be okay at a month, but we're not talking about that Right. Yeah um So the real impact on people that have disabilities and the real cost to the state of potentially picking up nursing home now I can tell you that Loomis The lakeside reads landing nursing home because my mother was in it for three months Is $15,000 a month That's how much it costs $500 a day and quite frankly it's cheaper than a lot of the places in the eastern part of the state um But it's $15,000 a month put somebody in a nursing home, which um, I think if you provided 10 hours of Of a PCA and 13 hours of meals Prep you probably pay a lot less than 15,000 Yeah, I think that's how this committee should approach it and if you you have examples of I mean Of people who require that's why I would want to know what do people who get less than 10 hours a week actually get That Um, and I don't know the answer to that What do you mean by I get like if you if you have a PCA less than 10 hours a week What kind of services is that? Person providing could be an elderly person I can tell you not safe Taking a shower or bath in their home on their own who cannot do their shopping on their own You know, but mostly I think these services are not given to people to have somebody come clean their house or Do the cooking no they really need somebody to care is for their own personal needs Like can I cut in for a sec? Yes, please do I have a step I have a step dad who has a PCA And that is for my mom's Sanity and for the rest of us to have sanity and he's not able to be alone in the house anymore Because he falls and things and so in order for my mom to get out To go grocery shopping to do anything we have a PCA come to twice a week and this woman does not house clean she just Hands out and helps out Now is that a PCA or is that a home health aid that your mother pays for? Oh, yeah, I don't know Home health aid is very different Home aid home health aides are often paid for by individuals Right, but PCAs like are like stavros people Okay, she did have somebody come and evaluate like a social worker person come and evaluate So I know what you're right. I I didn't I didn't ask her But that's just an example for not just me but for anybody Well, I mean, that's why I want to know what what an actual PCA who is paid for by state and federal funds Actually provides for people if it's only eight hours a week and I don't know those things Do you know jim you used to run stavros, you know my neighbors have PCAs from the state As I told you myra if you take they need to be personal Care needs like ours taking a shower is one Yeah, yeah getting in and out of bed is another one Yeah getting help with your medications because the old people might get confused to take their medications but then then there are additional tasks like doing your laundry or shopping or something but To qualify for the PCA program. You have to have so many of those Personal needs that you need to have done not those additional housekeeping needs My neighbors have a lot of those. Yeah, so not shopping Yeah, it doesn't and my neighbors have PCAs doing laundry Getting in and out of bed taking your medication Okay, your other needs which these seniors will have that's why they don't have more hours You know then because they limit how many hours they would get Four showers and toilet thing and this and that so that's how they're calculated So I could see I could see a person needing a half an hour to go to bed And an hour in the morning to get up and that's your 10 hours. Yeah, and that's all you need And your shower and everything, you know that will need so I don't know if they do laundry Do they do laundry in my building they do but they do, you know to qualify for this program You have to have at least Two or three of these personal needs that uh, okay, got it. Okay, if you do Then they will add some other tasks to that Got it. Okay. May I interrupt for a minute? So it's yeah people Are really mostly in my opinion are seniors getting more and more help as they get older Okay And all right, so Ian aging Ian. Are you are you able to take in what we've talked about here and are you willing to change your uh your I don't I mean for me. It's not a resolution for me. It's just a Memo from the d a a c two hour legislators that we would also send to the conference committee and to the Ways well ways and means is coming out now But the finance whoever it is that that we next have to lobby I would see that as a useful thing That talks about that the cost to the state if they don't pay for this and what people are in this town With disabilities are going to lose if they don't pay for this That's right. Yes. And so so you're suggesting not going through the route of the town council I don't think we have time for that and I don't think the town council will buy it anyway Okay I think this is a d a a c resolution two legislators. Yeah Yeah, I a little bit in disagreement with myra because I think the town council Should hear about it at some point, but we can't send a statement of our committee You know, but then the town I think should hear about it They can get a copy of what we're going to send to our legislators. They can be cc'd on it Is that not good enough? We could I don't I don't see why we can't just pursue a dual approach. That is that our senator and rep and the governor can get A statement from the d a a c In the meantime, Ian does some work and see if we can get something I mean, this is going to be a long drawn out process unless governor heli caves in we're talking july here most likely So that While I think it's good for us to weigh in as quickly as possible I think that there's something to be said as far as you know as serena saying that something comes from the town That can carry some weight too. Yes Okay, so Ian you want to make a motion about town council because we'll see where people want to go Yes, I'll make a motion to redraft my resolution Taking in the the notes from today's meeting For a town council resolution and also to write the letter directly to our legislators and the governor We're talking about two different things Yes, so I guess two different resolutions first resolution. I I'll make a motion to update the draft the the town council resolution Regarding this Okay, so we need a second I second then Okay, okay, so we need to vote Uh, okay I don't know if marty's still here Yes, yes, okay. How do you how do you vote? I vote I Yes, okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. My dog votes too. Okay Yes police Yeah, yes Ian. Yes, jim. Yes All right I'll vote. Yes, if if we also have the other yeah, pamela Nope, that's all right. I was just making sure you got your vote in. Oh, yeah, I'll vote yes But I want the other motion in and I also motion that I'll write a letter to Mindy dom joe cumberford and moraheeley Advocating for not for opposing these budget cuts Um, sure and I would even add the house finance committee to that. I'm not sure what committee is Jim you seem to know what's the name of the committee? It would be ways and means So you advise to send this to the chair of house ways and means and the chair of senate ways and means I'm not I'm not in the loop anymore as far as who those people are Yeah Okay, so that's on behalf of the da da ac Yeah, and and it would also go to our reps who are Already on record in favor of what we want Yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. Um, I need a second for that I'll second alise second. Okay All right, marty Yes, we need both. I'm sorry. Sorry. Okay. It's me that should be sorry. Uh, jim vote Yes, okay sarin. Yes um Ian Yes Uh, I forget who the oh Oh, my god. Elise. I'm sorry. Elise I said yes. I think it did Yeah, yeah, well, we have two times. Okay, and I will vote yes on that one. So the question is ian um I think I mean anytime that I send anything out. I always send it to pamela first So could you send it to me and pamela when you write things? And um, we will give you our feedback before they go out Yes, we'll do Okay, and they should come from the da ac So not from you personally Right and not from me personally but from the da ac Okay, thank you and for this. Okay, all right. So I need to Okay, I'm sorry. We're interrupting everyone just for a second because it's uh, I have to go I think, right 131 and we just need to call for pick, uh, public comment There's nobody to give public comment, but we're supposed to have one Okay, public comment period you need to leave you can Is there anyone here to give public comment? No, okay. Thank you All right, I have to go. All right. Thank you. This was a long meeting and it was a difficult but hopefully productive meeting. Um, and Okay, so next month 14th of me Okay, all right. So we're great and we're we are adjourning at um 131 Yeah, we need a motion to adjourn right a motion to adjourn. Okay a second Second second all in favor of adjourning I All against adjourning Okay, nobody's against adjourning. Okay next month same time same place. Okay. All right. Thank you. Bye. Bye