Hi and welcome to the session. I am Shashi. Let us do one question. Question is show that none of the operations given above has identity. First part given in the previous question is A star B is equal to A minus B, where star is the binary operation on the set Q of rational numbers. First of all, let us understand the key idea to solve the given question. Given the binary operation star from A cross A to A, an element E belonging to A if it exists is called identity for the operation star if A star E is equal to A is equal to E star A for every A belonging to A. This is the key idea to solve the given question. Let us now start with the solution. We know on Q where Q is the set of rational numbers, binary operation star is defined as A star B is equal to A minus B. Now, let E with the identity element in Q. A star E must be equal to A must be equal to E star A for every A belonging to set of rational numbers. Now, we know A star E is equal to A minus E and E star A is equal to E minus A. But A minus E is not equal to E minus A since subtraction on rational numbers is not commutative. So, we can write there is no element E in Q where Q is the set of rational numbers with A minus E equal to E minus A for every A belonging to Q. So, we can write there is no identity element for binary operation star. So, this is our required answer. Hope you understood the session. Take care and goodbye.


Hello everyone! This is Alice Gao. Welcome to the first video on reinforcement learning algorithms. In this video, I will introduce reinforcement learning and then describe our first reinforcement learning algorithm called adaptive dynamic programming. I'll focus on the passive version of the ADP algorithm. Let's look at the basic setting of a reinforcement learning problem. Recall that there are three types of problems in machine learning. In supervised learning, we have labels for every example. For our supervised learning, we have no label for any example. Reinforcement learning is somewhere between the two. In the reinforcement learning problem, we're given some numeric feedback called rewards or punishments once in a while, and we want to determine what to do at each time step given these numerical feedback. Let's consider a fully observable single agent reinforcement learning problem. We'll model this problem as a Markov decision process. At the beginning, the agent is given the set of states and the set of possible actions. At each time step, the agent observes the state and the reward since the environment is fully observable. After observing the state and reward, the agent carries out an action. The goal of the agent is to maximize its total discounted reward over time. Reinforcement learning is challenging for several reasons. First, the agent receives rewards infrequently. It is often difficult to determine which action or which sequence of actions was responsible for reward. For example, playing a chess game requires a lot of actions, but will only get one reward at the end, win or lose. Second, an action may have long-term effects on the agent's utility. Carrying out a seemingly bad action at the beginning may allow the agent to receive large rewards in the future. Choosing an action is particularly challenging since the agent does not know the effects of the action beforehand. Third, at any time step, should the agent explore or exploit? If the agent always exploits, it may not discover better actions. On the other hand, if the agent always explores, it never makes use of the learned knowledge to maximize its utility. The agent needs to carefully balance exploration and exploitation. Before I tackle the full reinforcement learning problem, let's consider a simpler setting, a passive learning problem. In this setting, the agent follows a fixed policy. Its goal is to learn the expected value of following this policy, that is, learn the utility value V for every state S. The passive reinforcement learning problem is similar to the policy evaluation step in the policy iteration algorithm. Given a policy, we want to learn the utility values V. However, this problem is more difficult for two reasons. The agent does not know the transition probabilities, nor does it know the reward function. Fortunately, we can tackle this problem using the same approach as policy evaluation, solving for the utility values using the Bellman equations. To do this, we must learn the transition probabilities and the reward function. We can learn both of these using the observed transitions and rewards as we navigate the world. In other words, we'll take actions when at a time based on the policy. Each action will allow us to observe the reward and the transition. We will use these observations to update our estimates of the transition probabilities and the reward function. This algorithm is called the passive adaptive dynamic programming algorithm or the passive ADP algorithm. ADP is a model-based algorithm because it requires us to learn a model of the world. The model consists of the transition probabilities and the reward function. Let's take a look at the passive ADP algorithm. There's a loop from step two to step five. The agent will go through this loop whenever it takes an action and generates a new experience. Step two, generating an experience. Suppose that the agent is in state S right now. The agent takes an action A based on the policy pi. This causes the agent to transition to state S' and receive a reward R'. The experience consists of S, A, S' and R'. The agent can use this experience to update its estimates of the utility values. Step three, update the reward function. Entering state S' gives us a reward of R'. If we haven't observed this reward before, we will record it for our reward function. Step four, updating the transition probabilities. The experience contains one state transition. Taking action A in state S causes the agent to transition to state S'. We can use this to update our transition probability. To calculate the transition probabilities, we keep track of two counts. N of S A records the number of times the agent takes action A in state S. N of S A S' records the number of times the agent takes action A in state S and lands in state S'. The probability of S given S and A is equal to N of S A S' divided by N of S A. We will increment the two counts and calculate updated transition probability. Step five, updating our estimates of the utility values. After updating the reward function and the transition probability, we are ready to estimate the utility values. Looking at the Bellman equations, the reward function is known, the count factor is given, and the transition probabilities is known. The V values or the utility values are the variables. We can solve for the utility values exactly since all the Bellman equations are linear. You can use your favorite linear programming technique to solve them. Alternatively, we can solve for the utility values iteratively using value iteration or policy iteration. That's everything on the passive ADP algorithm for reinforcement learning. Let me summarize. After watching this video, you should be able to do the following. Describe the basic setting of a reinforcement learning problem. Describe the steps of the passive ADP algorithm. Thank you very much for watching. I will see you in the next video. Bye for now.


For centuries, a disproportionately high proportion of Scottish land has been owned by a small number of people. I consider this to be an inequality that should be urgently addressed in order to build a fairer Scotland. I'm Mercedes Villalba, MSP for North East Scotland, and I'm consulting on a draft proposal for a member's bill that would introduce a presumed limit of 500 hectares on individual sales or transfers of land and on the aggregate amount of land any person can own. It would also strengthen regulation of Scotland's land market and create a public interest test for land sales and transfers which are over the 500 hectare limit. I believe that a lack of diversity in land ownership can have a detrimental effect on job and housing markets, as well as on the environment. It may also prevent communities from exercising their rights to buy land when in the public interest. My aim is to ensure that Scotland's land serves the needs of its people by addressing the high concentration of land ownership. My consultation is now open and I would like to hear from as many people as possible, so please do let me know your views.


You too team keep it clean. What's going on? It's a engraving here with another video and another episode of NFL questions from Subs a series where you can ask me any NFL question you want to and we answered in a video just like this If you want to be part of it You can send me an email to team keep it clean at gmail.com or for the patrons You can send it directly on patreon if you want to become a team keep it clean patron You go to patreon.com slash engraving vids like always say if you want to if you don't want to either way It's fine. I'm gonna still love y'all regardless team keep it clean Today is the Ravens second preseason game or at least when you should be seeing this video should be before the second preseason game But so don't but don't hold me to it. But anyway We got some fire questions as we always do We ain't wasting no more time. Let's do it first question came from my boy Dylan J He said a engraving Dylan here second question for you Jimmy Smith has previously said he doesn't want to play for another team Then the raider which is cool and all but with the young corner stockpile We seem to have do you think it's more likely he signs with another team or attires outright after we inevitably cut him Don't want to assume things but with the way things are going we may find out sooner rather than later No, I don't think we're gonna find out sooner at all. I think he will definitely be with the team this year Next year though. I don't think so. I even before they re-signed them I didn't even think he was gonna be with the team this year I really didn't I thought last season was gonna be his last last year with the team But I think this is it for Jimmy Smith because when you start talking retirement They said it on the I am athlete podcast. Oh, man. I just realized I haven't seen that it hasn't come on in a long time I guess they're taking a break But they said it on there when you start talking about retirement you start thinking about it then it's already time So I think this will be Jimmy Smith's last year Regardless with the Ravens and probably in the NFL this question came from a guy Eugene He said what's good engraving of all as well question. How do you feel about Josh Oliver? Do you think keeping him that we can get back to our three tight end packages? Seems like we took a turn once we lost Hayden Hurst And also what position do we take a hit on with cutting one to keep the third tight end? He said PS we need the whole intro song release bro. That thing is fire. Appreciate it We done done that already. We don't put the whole thing out already. But anyway I don't even really think another position has to suffer in order to keep a third tight end. I don't So with Josh Oliver right now, it's looking like he's gonna be that guy That's what all signs are pointing to especially with them waving wolf last week They still got Eric Thomas and so he could battle for it But no, it's not gonna be Thomas They're gonna want somebody more athletic and whatnot somebody who's more of a field stretch and more similar to Mark Andrews and somebody similar to Nick Boyle So I think he'll definitely hold it down And I don't think they'll have to necessarily sacrifice a roster spot in order to keep Next question and the timing of this was everything and he ended up making himself right But it came from my guy and twine. He said it was good. Hope all is well. This was on August 6 He said I have one concern for the upcoming season and that's for Shaw Bateman Should we be worried that he can't put together two consecutive practices nor finish the one he started and all this is happening before The hitting and the pads come on so he saw the pattern and we talked about this pattern as well Something that was a concern for us, but hopefully now that he's had his surgery now that he's gotten that out of the way Hopefully that was what was bothering him and that was really what was holding him back So now hopefully he could be a full goal and be full healthy moving forward next question came from my guy Raven pride He said what's up in gravy and hope you and your family are doing well because with what you do keeping us updated is a plus I appreciate it man and gravy you said we could dwell on anything as a question or concern I like to inform team keep it clean that I have full blown or covert 19 and pneumonia I got diagnosed on August 19th 2021 when we think we did enough and we let our guards down. That's when we lose our brother I'm an Idaho in the hospital and believe that I'll be here for 10 or 14 days So with that, I just want to say thank you for reading my email because engraving you the best at what you do Keeping guys updated on Raven Nation your boy Raven's pride. Oh man Man, we all we all rocking with you though, man We appreciate you being willing to share that with us man and being willing to share that with all the team Keep it clean man. Keep going man. We already know you're gonna keep going You just got to rest up for a little bit and then things will be better in no time But um, we appreciate you checking in with us and that's what it's about checking in And then like I said sooner rather than later Everything gonna turn around you're gonna be back on your feet back driving the trucks back with your dog And everything gonna be good to go, but we love you we we appreciate you and thank you for letting us know about that Man expression came from jacquard C. He said what's up in gravy and hope everything is good with you in the fam A couple things what game do you think this year will be the most important game in the regular season at the time that we play that game? And also do you think the Ravens will shock us with a cut and who ah? Right now. I don't really see any surprising cut Well one surprising cut I could see could possibly be Anthony Levine that that would be really the only one and Maybe a lj fort But those two they got a lot of ties to the Ravens, especially emotionally especially Anthony Levine because he'd been around for a long time with the Ravens So I just I could see them cutting him, but I don't see them cutting him With lj fort we'll see how this preseason game goes and see how often he plays and when he plays I think that could be indicative of his possible future with the Ravens And other than that as far as which game because that's a that's a tricky question right now Which game do you think this year will be the most important game in the regular season at the time when we play that game? I will say the playoff game Next question came from my boy Mike greed he said engraving hope all as well Mike read here Can the airy LOL short and simple question is go around anyway in your voice? There's so many players going into the first year that contract over the final year that contract I can't even read and hearing a lot of them say that they aren't worried about it They're worried about winning the Super Bowl if We do win it all which I hope that we do a me too Do you see some players pricing themselves out of Baltimore? Of course of course for sure Like they of course say that and that's the right thing to say like I ain't worried about the money I just want to win the Super Bowl and they do want to win the Super Bowl because again Like I always say I feel like a Super Bowl like a Hall of Fame is nice But the Hall of Fame means that you were one of the best the best players during your career for a long time But the Super Bowl only one team wins that every single year So they're saying the right things but the better they play and when you win a Super Bowl on top of that You look that much more better that much more attractive to other teams in free agency You know Raven Ravens ain't they ain't getting into no bidding war with nobody and they ain't getting into that with nobody for no player So yeah, I because when they get into bidding wars a lot of times they lose like what we saw how this past off-season went But yeah, I think for sure a lot of them would end up pricing themselves out of Baltimore because teams will want a player That would have that Super Bowl experience and that recent Super Bowl experience Because that could help their team out moving forward to have Somebody on a team that a lot of players could look up to and be like, oh, how did you guys do it? You say hope all is well and may God continue to bless you and your family and hashtag team keeping clean Appreciated Mike next question came from my boy. How it is. He said what's happening in Graven I saw the Raven Saints preseason game last night My observations was of course a typical preseason game with backups in a couple of starters playing the defense will be good as usual But my main concern and he put it in all caps when we get to the regular season is our offensive line Even when the project is starting five lineup, I'm still skeptical because I'm not starting I'm starting not to be so sure about the Boseman move back to center And I'm definitely not sold on the addition of our new right tackle Alejandro I'm not even trying to spell pronounce his name. He just put hashtag a V I don't think that transition from left to right is going so smoothly like people thought it would that Orlando Brown Junior trade might come back to harness. What's your thoughts? I ain't ever really want them to even trade him I would have rather them kept him and just let him go In the next offseason, but hey, it's all good. It is what it is I Wouldn't freak out now. It's one preseason game and not all the starters even played You ain't see no Ronnie Stanley out there. You ain't see no Kevin Zeichler out there. So I wouldn't freak out about it I know there's a lot of concern for the offensive line right now because of what we saw But again, it was just one game and it was one preseason game And it was not even with the starting lineup So no reason to go crazy right now next question came from BB He said do you think it would be a good idea for the Ravens to wait until the end of the season to give Lamar Jackson His contract this preseason training camp has not been kind to the wide receivers as Hollywood Boykin and Bateman seem to have injuries already This cannot be the narrative and when now mold if the Ravens did wait until the league rebounds after this season and a stronger salary Cap is implemented. I think both Lamar and the Ravens will benefit They're gonna need this extra cash in case injuries get worse and they need to sign someone to fill in Let me know what you think bro. Shout out to team keeping clean and hope all is well with you in the fam Oh, everything is good. No, they do not have to wait. They should not I mean the longer they wait is only going to benefit Lamar Jackson because the longer you wait The more his value will increase every season every game every snap his value increases Even when he's not on the field his value increases because you look at the backups after him We saw it with trace with Tyler Tyler Donnelly did his thing, but he still wasn't Lamar So Lamar Jackson's value still kept increasing So the longer you wait the more you're gonna have to pay if they paid him right now His money wouldn't kick in until the year after next So I will he would have signing bonuses and stuff like that But his annual salary it wouldn't kick in until the year after next because he still has the fifth year option So whatever they do now it would not hinder them from having money to carry over just in case you need to sign somebody Because of injury so longer Ravens wait. Hey every dollar counts. The next question came from a boy Nicholas W He said have you came to the point where it's just genuinely not even worth it to try and argue with someone online about Lamar Jackson I stills well I would actually back up before that and I would say I've came to the point where it's just genuinely not even worth it to try And argue with someone online. Boom. That's it That's it save yourself the headache save yourself the energy protect your energy and that's it But let's read the rest of the question He said I still see some people online that think the Ravens haven't won a playoff game yet with Lamar And even if you explain to them all the good Lamar has done the only stat They care about is passing yards. Yeah, like I said, man It's I couldn't do it. I literally see people do it every single day and just when I even just look at it It's draining. It's like man really just argue and fight them back and for every single I can't do it, man That ain't for me. I ain't built like that man. So yeah, that's that's enough next question came from a guy man You well he said shout out from Mexico He said have you noticed that in every practice the Ravens had crochet is the first on the field and ready to go It reminded me of George Washington before he was the general of the Continental Army He will show himself in the meetings with the military uniform and be one of the first ones to arrive yet Never demanded the position and only spoke when spoken to when he got the job He responded with humbleness although we all know that internally he was celebrating with crochet He always speaks not only about himself, but also about the team when asked the question Could it be that crochet took a page of Washington and even though he is catching everything thrown at him Is he winning points with EDC to stay on the roster by being one of the first ones on the field and showcasing His skills but not being prideful about it stay safe and tell team keep it clean to check on each other because we all we got and Gotta see Lamar retire two numbers. Oh, that would be something Yeah, pro shade definitely been doing his thing. He definitely been doing this thing He definitely been putting in a lot of work And yeah that that first thing that that that cheesy saying that you always hear old man first one on the field and last one Going he's actually doing it. It's actually real. Jeff's reaping even reported about it He said yes pro shade has literally been the first one on the field in the last one off So he's living it So with pro shade Right now. He's looking like a lock. He is looking like a lock He's seeming like a lock initially like early early in training camp when they kept showcasing pro shade and they kept talking about I'm thinking hmm. Are they trying to trade pro shade? Then the injuries happen and then but then we kept hearing about we kept hearing more and more and more and more about I'm like, oh, okay Okay, now and they start putting one on all the videos and stuff and then they said he was beating I'm free to beat markets Peter to beat Jimmy Smith. He's all I said, okay now pro shade now That that that's a nice little weapon to have in the chamber because Lamar obviously got Sammy in Hollywood and gonna have baby Whenever he comes back, but then do Vinay and pro shade Can't sleep on them either and then miles boy miles boy can see right now before I was thinking All right, it's gonna be miles boy can he gonna get that last spot approach It gonna be the odd man out They'll try to put him on a practice squad, but he ain't gonna last on the practice squad somebody gonna scoop him But now is it's looking a little bit otherwise next question came from Terry He said what's up in gravy and hope you and your family are doing good right now Which nothing but the best and blessings appreciate that I wanted to talk about Jeff Saturday's opinion about the Ravens passing attack if you want to watch the video No, he dropped me the link and I would want to know if you agree with Jeff Saturday or me So to sum up the video, thank you for doing it Jeff Saturday said that he doesn't see the Ravens passing attack progressing this year and being in the same position as last year because one Injuries to chemistry and three reps and in my opinion, I disagree. I remember you You don't know if those players are working together secretly and if you don't post anything people don't think you're working and I stand by that Yeah, that is true. That is true because yeah, you don't know what they're going on all we see is social media We don't know. Whoa, are they are they actually really working together? We just don't know so anyway early in the year. We saw Mark Andrews Hollywood or shot baby and Lamar and JK get in somewhere together in the offseason and they might have had other players from the team there But oh, Sammy Watkins was there, too But then I noticed how he didn't bring up the additions of T Martin and Keith Williams Which will put significant pressure on great Roman to succeed. We saw in the preseason We started to see more undercentred plays, which is good. That's true And last when he was saying reps is the offseason starters. They don't really need to play I would say cuz teams are looking for depth or starters at some point Thanks for reading my question slash opinion. Hope you and the family continue to do great things and team keep it clean big trust Appreciate it.  Mm-hmm. They don't need to do that They don't need to do that so many people get caught up Oh, yeah Ravens last in passing yards, but it's not all about the yards You could be first in passing yards, but you could be last in your division. You could be last in your conference Passing yards don't tell the whole story. They really don't It's all about efficiency Ravens can be very efficient now along with their efficiency. They just need to accompany some some diversity needs to accompany that efficiency So your your play calling your scheme as far as the passing game It just it just needs to be more diverse now It means it needs to be more diverse and it needs to put people in positions to succeed. That's it It's not gonna take anything crazy. It's not gonna take anything over the top All you need is just a little bit more diversity That's what they brought them boys tea and Keith in for to add some diversity to the offense to really help Kick this offense to another level where they know it has the potential to to go to and once they get to that potential Oh, next question also came from a boy man. You well He said I was looking at the highlights of the Ravens Panthers training camp And I saw that we're using the same passing schemes on of last year But why receivers were open and catching the passes But that made me wonder Sammy Watkins was right and our wide receivers couldn't get open for them passing plays to work I understand we wanted to blame Greg Roman for not changing the passing plays last year But could it be that he couldn't because number one our wide receivers couldn't get separation at all or either by lack of their ability Or coaching of it number two They dropped the balls when it was time to make a big play and oh for us How many times were we frustrated because of that because they were game-changing plays or number three? G-roll couldn't change the scheme because it requires time And we didn't have any time to practice it during the pandemic year Want to hear your thoughts on that as well team keep it clean stay safe until Hollywood that we know why he Doesn't want to get the tiebreaker against you and Madden because you can beat him that easily ill at will I Gotta hit him up about that. Well, I mean now it's the season time. So no, I haven't even played Madden yet, but anyway Yeah, it actually could be a combination of all three of all three Yeah There were times when virus even weren't getting open. Yeah, there were times where wire receivers were dropping the passes and yeah There was no time because it wasn't an irregular time for Greg Roman and his office to really implement New stuff into the scheme now. They still could have made some stuff happen now and they did Because I mean you you look at teams like the Brown look at the Browns. Look at the Browns. Look what they were able to do They were able to get new coach new GM and all that and they they did their thing It took them a little bit. There's a little nooks and crannies that they had to get past early on in the season But once they got rolling they got rolling So it was still possible to do your thing and especially with the Ravens having consistency at the coach and at the different coaching positions I should have gave them giving them even more reason That's why I thought I thought going into the season Ravens had an advantage with that because they did Returning head coach returning offensive court and returning defensive court. It's like, okay Even in the pandemic year, you got an advantage over a lot of other teams because you got everybody coming back But now that just gives you more excitement for this upcoming season since it has been more of a regular season That they can really put in that work The last question on this episode of questions themselves came from my boy the knowledge He did this question I have been avoiding for a while cuz y'all know how I feel about listen or but anyway, let's get into he said What's up in Gregman? What's up team keeping clean family training canvas finally here? So you can see when he sent he sent this on July 26, but I've been saving it for the right time But anyway, he says over the past few days up and thinking I want to hear your predictions on a few things You see the boys have some new toys in town and they kept some old ones as well But with the additions we expect progression. So on both sides of the ball have questions for you I hope you enjoy answering number one Lamar passing and rushing touchdowns along with rushing yards passing touchdowns if he plays more and actually is finishing games I'll say 38 Russian touchdowns I will say Seven oh wait a minute. We got 17. Yeah, I'd say 38 and seven active game day offensive line players are I Can't answer that one is it's way too early. Well, I say Ronnie Stanley Kevin Zayla Bradley Bozeman Patrick McCarty Tyree Phillips Who am I missing being Cleveland? I can't think any more to top my head top Russia and top rushing touchdown leader Top Russia, I say JK dollars. I think they're gonna rain it back with Lamar a little bit top rushing touchdown leader either JK or Lamar Will mark Andrew still be number one. Yes top receiver in yards. I say Hollywood cuz of the big place Which I hope we really get back this year Top receiver and touchdown receptions.    That'll be the one Tyler trace number two quarterback sack leader Justin Houston attire's Bowser in a section leader Marcus Peters Who wears the green dot chuck lock that ain't going away this year tackle leader Patrick Queen? Who are you expecting a jump from defensively? Patrick Queen for sure because he had a good season last year But now he'll have had an offseason so he should have an even better year this year And who is a defensive dog horse the Sean Elliott a FC division record. Oh I Don't know because I don't know how many how much teams we play in the AFC I don't know what the schedule is like that so I can't do that one season record 12 and 5. All right, so that that wasn't so bad man That wasn't so bad when I initially read this question a while back I was like a little scared cuz I like y'all know how I feel about them Those list questions and how many yards do you think this in the prediction? But this one wasn't so bad. So I appreciate it to know now I know I said the previous question was the last question But my boy Martin he sent this in at 10 p.m.  He said a engraving. Hope all is well with you in the fan. Appreciate it I wanted to ask you today. Why people feel the need to defend Lamar Jackson? It's a lot more to his question, but The reason and I can only speak for myself Probably the biggest reason why I feel the need to defend Lamar Jackson not even necessarily defending him But I feel the need to speak on a lot of the the wrongs that people think are right and I don't and I can't blame anybody for doing this, but I know a lot of people When they see something that's spoken of on TV They hear something that's spoken of on radio, whatever they automatically think, okay That's that's right because this person they they got a they verify They got a check mark or something or they on ESPN they on NFL Network. They on CBS. They're on NBC They're on ABC. They're on whatever. So it's what they're saying. It's got to be right, right and Unfortunately as we all know that's not always the case and and I want to Inform people of what the truth is and actually give people a different perspective a different perspective on Again because with media they they can really twist somebody and they can really they can really do some damage to some people's character Like big-time damage damage defamation all that stuff to somebody's character And and it's very unfortunate, but the media is very powerful So what we try to do is just clear some things up so people can have a more clear understanding of whatever the situation It might be that is being talked about So you said now before you get on me I want to say this is not me hating on Lamar in any way. I love all quarterback I think he's one of the best in the league.   Hey to each his own, but it for me doesn't get under my skin I I do even though it doesn't get under my skin. I still don't mind correcting or wrong though And again, like I said earlier just just clearing some stuff up for some people who may be naive to different situations And whatnot when it pertains to a Lamar Jackson Or really anything we talk about with the Ravens or just really football period Anyway, he said why do we let these ignorant people get under our skin Lamar Jackson has proven them wrong every time Lamar doesn't need us to be his shield No, he doesn't he doesn't but the thing with Lamar We can say what he can't say He's like in really in the public eye So he and he can't like respond to all of these different people Which is fine, but all we're doing is having a conversation about it. That's it. All we're doing is having a conversation about it That's all And he said look we all want people to stop making hot takes about him But the truth of the matter is until we ignore these people. They won't ever shut up now with that I disagree because if Say for instance, we never talked about what a lot of these analysts be saying about Lamar etc. Whoever Um, they're still gonna continue to talk about regardless why because that is exactly what they get paid to do That is their job. That's their income. That's their livelihood That's their career is going on TV or going on a radio or going on wherever and talking about whoever In this instance with Lamar Jackson Lamar Jackson is a very hot name. He's a very controversial name He's not a controversial person, but his name it brings a lot of Controversy so it brings a lot of clicks. It brings a lot of attention. It brings a lot of just spotlight So these people whether we Talk about what they said about Lamar or not. They're still going to continue it because again, that's their job All right. He said my favorite QB is flacko.  He was never top 10 QB to begin with but they were far worse quarterbacks out there than him My point is journalists make hot takes about players all the time and get proven wrong constantly no one ever thought flacko could lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl after he did it and Well, he they were like, oh, he can't do it again Now the same is happening with Lamar Jackson He could win a Super Bowl this year when MVP with 5,000 yards passing 50 touchdowns for interceptions rush for a thousand yards and go 17 and 0 in the moment his numbers dipped the following season, which would be inevitable the same people would say I See teams have him figured out and we told you so There's no pleasing these people and I don't see why we give them the time of day. Sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone Defending Lamar. I'm just trying to understand the point. No, I get you. I get your question That was a that was a good question powerful way to end off this episode a question from subscribers Martin But yeah, that's it man Again, my thing is just to to show people like hey, like Let's let's clear this up. So you have a more clear understanding of what the situation really is That that's that's my effort Whenever we try to explain or whenever we talk about what somebody in the media said when it comes to Lamar Jackson More so when they say just some some outlandish some some crazy stuff some some off the wall stuff Because not everything that people say about Lamar is off the wall but there when when it's like off the wall, that's when we definitely address it because It's the off-the-wall stuff that can be the most confusing for people if they like I said they're seated on TV And they'd be like, oh man So that's oh, that's what it is. That's that's the truth. That's that's real and a lot of times It's just not so Appreciate you more. Love y'all team. Keep it clean. I will see y'all tonight


Welcome folks, this is Tom O'Brien at TFNN. We have five days a week, we go seven hours a day, we go 24 hours a day on the internet at TFNN.com. Always remember folks, whatever you think about, you bring about whatever. You focus on growth, so everyone's having a great day, safe day, let's make it a great night folks. Don't make assumptions, learn to ask questions. This is a great card. It is always better to ask questions than make an assumption. Have the courage to ask questions and to you as clear as you can be. Once you hear the answer to that question, you won't have to make the assumption because you will know the truth. Knock it wise, let's take a look at it out here. We have the Dow Industrial's right now trading down 74, Nasdaq's up 41, S&P's down one and a half. Gold contract up $34, trading at $1810.40 an ounce. We have silver up 29 cents, $20.18 cents. Platinum's up 39, eight, nine, 28. Light sweet crude, just the opposite way man. Pretty wild and particularly when you get the dollar going down, that's deviant man. Oil's down 227, 88, 39. Notes and bonds, this is just as deviant. Notes and bonds continue to go to higher price. You get the 10 year up 21, 6, 124. 30 year up 29 at 143, 24 and King dollar. King dollar right now is trading, where are you man, there you go. Down 777 ticks at 105, 729. The year is at 102. The yen's at 132 and the British pound is trading at 121 to one US dollar. iPhone number's 877, 9276648. Give us a call folks. One note's going on in y'all world. In the world of the S&P's, let's take a look at them, what do you have? Well, when I just did that update, bottom line folks is that when the dollar's down this much, I mean we've had basically a pretty good week here. That being said man, this dollar down this much, this market shouldn't have had a problem, this spy blowing through this 417. We made it to 415.09, so we'll see what happens with the jobs number tomorrow morning. But what we have right now is that you got a sideways market that's trying to get over the June 1st level, that's in the spy, okay? If we go take a look at the cues, now the cues are a different story, man. The cues, they're taking a break. That being said though, what's happening with the cues, they're already launched, man. The cues are looking to go to 330. And right now you're at 324. We made it to 324.52 today. We will have a slight contraction of volume, but the volume still should be pretty good. We should run in about 45 million shares. Gold, gold contract caught the bit out here. We take a look at gold, bottom line, you're at 1,810. You've done 142,000 contracts, not bad, not great. It's taken out a B point, but the B point, we had 174,000 I think, let me put this up. Was either 172,000 or 174, let's see, 174,000 contracts. We're at 142. So what happens there, the bottom line, you don't have a ABC up, but I suspect that this thing is heading now, we're at 1,810, bottom line, it's gonna head for the swing point of 1,900. That's how this is set up right now, so pretty cool. Notes and bonds, now look at this, man. This is something else, okay. So we go to the 10-year note first. And the 10-year note right now is back over the B point. There it is, we rejected lower price yesterday. So what we did yesterday is this, yesterday you got down to the price point of 1,910. You did 1.8 million contracts going into 1.99. Bottom line, the number to keep your eye on is that the 1,2016, we're back over it again. That's saying 1,24 is coming at us, man, which is just so deviant, it's unbelievable. At the bottom line, that's how it's set up. And we are at 2.67 inside of the 10-year. Now, let's go into this dollar, because the dollar, this bottom line out here today is that it's given it up on price. The benchmark on the dollar is this 1067,92. That's the higher range. We'll see how it handles, it looks to me like it's gonna go right back down to this 105. And the kicker, this is the kicker here, let's do this. This dollar has actually broken the whole trend. And, okay, and then it saved itself. That's what it did, but let me do this again. Let me do this a different way, not a different way, I'll show you, because one trend is broken, the second one, bottom line, the trend that's broken goes from the 101 area. That's pretty clear. Is that 101? Yeah, it's 101. 101,296, okay, that one's broken. The harder one is that like, that you can actually bring it all the way down and you're gonna see we actually, well, we never broke it, it came right to it. That one there, it starts back at 95. So that's really intriguing, man, because if we get another wide price spread down day and the dollar, bottom line, that's how that would be set up, that you would bust that out. That's the bottom line. Let's go take a look at some of the higher volume equities out here. And so you get advanced micro up $6.5, $6. Coinbase is up $8. You get Black Stone or Black Rock, one more, Black Rock. They're gonna start doing some business on that platform with them, so that's pretty wild. You get NVIDIA Rep 350, Occidental's off $250. Oh, let's go over that oil market, man, CL. Let me see this thing. So active oil contract. Okay, so we take a look at this. You get 308,000 contracts. You're breaking the swing. You got volume on the break, man. This is an ABC down. This is gonna get interesting, man. Let's watch this shake out, man. Okay, so you almost got 111 to 88. You got 23. We can get you somewhere around 78. Yeah, this thing is game, man. This game is down. Yeah, that's gonna take some heat off the the fuel, there's no doubt about that, man.  What's so intriguing here is that you get a double bang, and what I mean by that is this, is that when you have the dollar coming down, oil should be going up. Stay right there, folks, we'll come right back with our man, Mr. Basil Chapman. We have the Dow Industries right now down 40, and Aztecs up 58, S&Ps are up three. We'll come right back.


All right, we will call the April 11th architecture review. Steve, if you could run through the roll, please. All right. Bob Hybril, Jerry Jones, Joe Clark, Marcus Savaglio, Richard Lindy, all right. And we did receive notice from Dave Aldeig and Pam Lang and that they would not be here today. Great, and we have a quorum, so we will keep moving. If everyone would please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. We pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And under item three, any board member potential conflicts of interest with today's agenda? Seeing nothing, we will move forward with the minutes and look for approval of the minutes from March 14th. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Minutes are approved. Thank you. Brings us to our discussion items. First one, number five on the agenda is the proposed construction of new building additions at Old World Creamery at 1606 Erie Avenue. If that team could come to the podium and give us a brief rundown of what's proposed in the mic so that the viewing audience can hear as well. And we have the documents you submitted. We can pull up on the screen as you run through things. Yeah, if you could put it on the screen, then I can talk my way right through it. So we're putting addition on. We're putting it. It's like three parts. We just give you a real quick history on the whole thing. Initially, we were looking to just do the main, bigger area. And then to find out the power is buried underneath there. And line energy will not take the transformers that are there because they're outdated. They're from the 70s.  So that makes us move the transformers. So then we just made the decision to close the whole thing in. So if you start on the far south end of the building, the little area there, that's going to be the look of the same. The look of the building is going to be the same all the way across on 17th Street. But that area there is going to be initially, the first floor is just going to be storage. Second floor, it's going to have a basement first, second floor. The third floor is going to be our waste treatment plant. So you see the second door way up high. You're going, well, you've put in the garage door way up there. Well, we've got to get our waste treatment equipment up into there. So that's going to be our waste treatment. We want to handle all our wastewater and manage it. So when we give it to you to the city, I should say, there's our BODs, our solids. It's almost fresh, clear water. And that's what we're doing. We want to be self-sustainable. We don't want to give you problems.  I don't want to be what's going on here. So we made the decision we're going to be managing our wastewater there. The next door is where the intake is right now. We're moving that out four foot years ago. Trucks are smaller. We can't close the doors now without unhooking them. So we bumped that out four foot. The next area is right now is just going to be our, there's going to be a room in there with our chemical storage, which we have right now for cleaning. And the chemicals are all safe. They're used in any dairy plant. So it's not a, we're not handling something or we ain't storing something that isn't safe to handle. The next part is what we're taking. When we make butter, we have a byproduct of buttermilk. We're taking the buttermilk and we're concentrating that down to 18, 19, 20% solids. What comes out of that is water and our buttermilk that is concentrated. The water goes into a storage tank, which is turned around and reused for doing all our washing and cleaning at night. So we're reusing it. Our buttermilk we're turning around and we're re-injecting it to into a milk or a product and we're making cheese out of it. From there, we go through another PC equipment in that room and it's going to take all the water out of it again and we're going to have a product that we sell for animal food. So at the end of the day, nothing leaves our building. We start with cream and water and salt and when it's done, we got water is left and it's safe water, it's clean water. So that's what we're doing with the whole building. That would be the, if you want to call that the northern look at it, okay? So it's pretty much enclosing that whole parking lot area. We have, in the last year, we've been inquiring all the homes next to us. We just, we're trying to do our part to clean up that part of the city. It had a lot of problems going on and we had employees that didn't want to walk out at night to their car and things like that. So we think we got that under control for everybody. So, and our plan is, we have already talked with the city and talked with Steve on this, but our plan is phase six, phase seven to continue to go north. So that's just a quick brief on it. You know, we've got a meeting tomorrow night on some other things. We've got some parking across the street that we did. I think we have our landscaping plan in already. So, the bottom part is what the building would look like. It's a standup concrete building. It's made up in Manitowoc. That stone matches up the bottom stone, matches up the best with the yellow, the old style yellow on the initial part of the building. And that's what we're trying to do to make them blend together nice. If you look at the bottom picture there, it's gonna start right there where the yellow is, right? Yep, right there. And that's gonna enclose that whole thing all the way across. So, it's just, if you look at what's there right now and you imagine closing that, it's just a totally different look. It's, we think it's gonna just make it look so much nicer. Appearance and everything. So, that's my short, super. Thank you very much. Do you have anything else? I've got. You got anything else I'll answer or anything? I have to do it. Great. Buildings. Yep. Structure and stuff. Industrial building in the city, but it's clean tidy. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me, but feedback from the board, thoughts or comments? Marcus. I've got one clarifying question if you wouldn't mind. Pardon me. You said you're expanding to the north, but it looks like the house with projected parking lot and it is to the east towards the lake. What I said in years where our plan is to go to the north farther, okay? Parking lot is going over in the east right now. Gotcha. But our three to five year plan would be to continue going north. Thank you very much. Yep. So that, if you wouldn't mind, that would require potentially vacating the street in that area on that north side. Wow. Yep. What is that? St. Clair. St. Clair. St. Clair. So they'd be coming and talking to us about that. And as you've mentioned, buying a little bit of the properties in order to get ready to do some of that. And they've done some demolition and things like that in that area. So that would be a Bayer project down the line that we might be looking at. And so the Sherwin-Williams across St. Clair. No, Sherwin-Williams is actually to the west. Yeah. And that is along Kohler Memorial. And that would be west. So going north is in the neighborhood, the residential neighborhood. And that's where they've, Steve's acquired several properties along there with the anticipation of trying to go that way. Okay, thank you. Yep. Other questions or comments? I make a motion to approve subject to recommendations. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is approved. Thank you very much. Brings us to item six on the agenda, the proposed exterior remodel at 804 through 814 North 8th Street. That team can come to the podium and make introductions is before you get started though, just to preface it with the, that I had up here, now I've lost them. Staff recommendations are currently that we hold on this one to receive revised drawings to be more in line with the 8th Street design guidelines. But I guess I'd like to hear your thoughts on the building that you've got presented and why you're taking it this direction. Just knowing that we have some significant reservations. All right, so my name is Jason Aarons, I'm with Distinctive Design Studio and Ryan Schmayer with Fitch Generation Program. So we were in front of the board, I think back in 2019 we presented an update to the facade of the building, utilizing a lot of EFIS materials and it was approved at that point in time. Since that time, just looking at the cost of construction, just trying to make it a little bit more economical. We looked at revising the facade, still trying to create a somewhat of a historic look on at least part of the building. And then we went a little bit more of a modern facade on the corner of Wisconsin and 8th Street with the vertical metal panels on the top and some corrugated metal panel on the first floor. We're still trying to maintain the historic look with the rhythm of the windows that were there previously before they were closed in and part of the building, probably the 60s or 70s they had metal panel on it with a gated or like a caged second floor windows. So obviously that's removed. So we wanted to create somewhat of a historic look. They looked at restoring the facade to what it was previously. A lot of the terracotta elements as you know have been removed. There's some damaged elements on the facade and that would, the cost was just too great of a cost. So we were looking at still trying to maintain somewhat of a historic look with Ephesus on the first floor with storefront windows to still create that transparency that's outlined in the guidelines and give us a stone look. And the second floor of that center portion, the brick would be tuck pointed to fix that storefront windows on the first floor and fixed windows on the second floor in the old openings. And then the building on the south side, there's CMU on the second floor now. So that would be covered up with metal panels and it would create a more modern look. And then the left portion, if you're looking at the top elevation, that left portion, we're looking at putting Ephesus and then that would be painted with a mural and the mural would wrap around to the west side as well on the back of the building. And since my submittal to the board, it's become to my attention that I believe they already have a muralists kind of in line for that. And the thought is to create a mural. It's in the arts and culture district. So the mural would be geared towards theater or music just somehow. And our proposal I don't think is too out of the ordinars or what you see popping up in the district within the last couple of years. There are some buildings at the high point apartments far the south have similar materials to what we're calling out here and the slow food market on Penn Avenue, a couple blocks south also has similar type of materials as well. So I mean, that's my couple of minutes. And like you said, the biggest thing was trying to reduce the cost enough where we can make the space attract some retail tenants, especially in that second floor. It's definitely hard to get someone with that much, we're looking for that more square footage to rent space. So in order to bring the cost to reasonable price for possible tenants, we're hoping to obviously improve the facade that we all would like in that building and then be able to get some quality tenants in there as well. Steve, I may be deferring to you on a lot of the 8th Street design guidelines. Yeah, yeah. But my initial review of it, the main part of the 8th Street facade where you're trying to match the old historic appearance I think is appreciated. And that's where we were giving some leeway on the standards and requirements to try and make that more buildable today, not having to match the materials exactly. And I think on the previous submittal, we had extended some of those, letting you do things we wouldn't normally have done per the guidelines because you were trying to get back to a more historic look or at least a reference to what had been there historically. So that right hand part on 8th Street and the new submittal of it, I don't have a lot of problems with that. It's the corner where if this were somewhere else, I don't know that I have an issue with it and it's nicely done. It's got some nice contemporary elements worked into it nicely. I'm just concerned here it doesn't relate to the rest of the building and it's really not what the guidelines are asking for on 8th Street. Once we're on the corner, we're not as stringent, but it struck me as odd that some of the nice brickwork on the building is the part you're covering up with EFAS and the mural. At least the base portion of that, if my memory serves right. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of murals like that on buildings because they're, it's hard to critique it as architecture, it's art at that point. And so then that would be part of the discussion about when street art is appropriate versus not. But I was, back on the corner element, you talked about attracting tenants and I'm surprised that you're not introducing windows. I would have thought it would be harder to get tenants to that second floor space without the windows on the second floor. So we had windows on the previous submittal. Yeah. The cost, the discussions with the owner, the costs, that was one of the ways to help reduce the costs, to take out some of the windows on the second floor. Other feedback from the board on this submittal? Excuse me, I'm Uncle Steve. Steve. The corner building, I understand where you're at with the corner building. It's just that was not the original historic corner. We tried, the previous time we tried to mimic what was there and the cost got expensive. What we have a tenant, the kids have a tenant, Nicky is over here, that's taking two thirds of the first floor space. We still have the corner space or the far right side, a third of that yet, that we're looking at some type of entertainment venue that we don't necessarily need windows on the second floor. We'll have the windows of the historic area because we're looking to do the whole second floor is you'd be able to come in to that north area, go up the master stairs, have accessibility with an elevator, and then be able to then go up to the second floor. So the need of doing the windows is not there. So, Ken, if you show the, do you have that one plan that showed all the tables? Is this the right one? Am I at, Steve? No, you're on first floor. Go down a little. There you go. So we still would have the windows and part of those second floor space, but we're looking at some type of a pub, maybe Ryan can explain the organization that we're looking at, Ken, who's over here. Sure, I mean, we're considering a lot of different options trying to find people to partner with and whatnot, but either a venue like that, where they could have banquets and things like that, but also possible like large, open style type nightlife, even like, I've been to plenty of places, people my age that love, you know, like turf on the floor, kind of make it feel like it's more like it's summer, things like that, like have bags and have, you know, even gazebos or people can meet up and stuff like that. So just considering a lot of different ideas like that, but if we could have with the extra space, you know, considering some sort of, you know, drinks, nice cocktails and light food, and then be able to have upstairs open on the weekends, because I think most people agree that we're still looking for that kind of higher scale type locations that we can go to get drinks and things like that. And that's definitely what we're looking to try to do with the second floor, so. And Nicky's, again, we have the kids have assigned, at least he hasn't executed yet after we, and that's based on the cost that we have for doing her improvements on first floor, also with doing exterior renovations. So she's taking two thirds of the first floor and about a quarter of the lower level for a space. So we're trying to utilize the whole building, and there'll be a new stairwell that will go on that back on that left center, lower left section there, that will access the second floor and lower level, and then to the far right will be a lobby area for an elevator that will act and go up to the second floor. So we're trying to make it use, it's been a while. We've been struggling with costs and making it economically feasible, and I guess we asked this committee to approve what we're having. We will then come back with a mural, or if we just paint it a certain color, that's acceptable to everybody. But it's just, we thought with the increase of murals downtown and to make something attractive for the historic, kind of our historic venue district with a wild center that we thought that would be a good thing because that's where a major parking lot is in time to attract the people to that side there. So that's, I know I'm not giving you what you want, but it's what makes financial sense for our kids, sorry. And our tenant is happy and she's signed a lease already, and she wants us to get started, right? She even got overeager in her signed person, put a sign on the corner of the building. Steve, can you clarify the two thirds of the first floor that's potentially leased? Which two thirds is that? Yeah, starting from the left-hand side underneath the area, she'd be entering in that area where it says signage, that big signage. So that's her entrance, that's her only entrance that will come in. So she gets the left side that used to be the bike shop or the little resell store that was down there. And then the right side, up to, that was where, yeah, where the sign shop was and stuff like that. So the sign shop is the only place that's vacant. And that had the old stairwell that actually went to the second floor, which is kind of a cool grand stairs. So that's what we're trying to, we've been struggling looking at apartments, looking at offices, all the different scenarios that there would be in the need for windows because you are overlooking the fountain and stuff like that. But for kind of like a evening nightclub type of event, we're limiting the windows and just doing the historic nine windows, I think that we have there, right? I think it's nine of them. One, two, three, eight of them, sorry. But that's coming back to pretty close to what it looked like before. But I just couldn't, I mean, the terracotta stone was just out of this world to bring that all back. I'm a historic preservationist, so I know where you're coming from, so, okay? Sorry, any more questions from anybody? Be back. Marcus. So I'm not familiar with the Eighth Street requirements, but I'm trying to understand on that corner, is there a way to blend more modern and historic things into a building? Perhaps, Steve, if you could summarize the requirements. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I can't, I think it's about maybe 2012, 11 somewhere in there. We did some design guidelines because of situations kind of like this in terms of trying to bring them back. So what we were trying to do was trying to bring back more of the historical looks and trying to get with regards to materials, like in this case, it talks about materials trying to be more historic in nature compared to the contemporary like metals. And Ephis, as a matter of fact, talks about concrete blocks, stucco, Ephis, metal, shall not be used on building facades or walls that are visible from streets. So I mean, it's flat out not trying to meet any of the intent it is going against the guidelines and what we're trying to accomplish. So from that perspective, there's staff certainly is not going to recommend the proposal as it is based on those design guidelines and would be wanting the applicant to resubmit something that is much closer in terms of design that like what we had originally approved in 19 with the cornice, with the windows, with the built courses, kind of matching it down with a lot of the historical elements of downtown. So that's where I'm coming from in terms of our recommendations. The building's been sitting there as they mentioned for a long time in tough shape, understand things with the resources and things like that. But this is a key piece. You got the Wild Center, you got good design, in terms of historical design across the street in the guidelines, it talks about this building at the time it had metal panels over the windows and talking about how to add windows and bring back things historically from a look perspective. So that's where staff was in this particular instance, doesn't have less issue with the section on A Street, have much more issue with the proposal at the southeast corner and then going west. The mural hasn't been discussed. It's been, you know, there are murals downtown and could that be something that's discussed and go to Plan Commission? Sure could, but at this point in time, this the first time we've seen this was this submittal was to have this ethos and mural on it. So those are staff concerns based on those guidelines. So a follow up question then on the corner where it says signage that we're looking at here, if the cost of windows that would be period accurate, historically accurate on that building is too high, is there a way to put fake windows in that would be much cheaper? Can they paint on some windows so that we can make it match but they could do it in an affordable way?  I don't know that we'd necessarily look to have it paint. I don't know if there's infill things of that nature but you know, those are the options that the architect and the designer would have to take a look at and come back with, I don't know that we can say, hey, do this, this or this, but these are the things that you can look at. And if you can show us how you believe you're meeting the intent of those requirements, they could bring it back here for the board's consideration. Thank you. And one final question for our applicant, what would be the cost of doing it the original submittal way and doing it this way? That was a little bit over 1.2 million for that and it's about three quarters a million for this. So we're looking at about $500,000 less. And you run that to your scenario what you can charge tenants and you're already pushing up higher we're not where we are downtown. And that corner building is not there anymore. That was torn down and in place of what you see there now is a precast floor, precast second floor, bar joist and metal deck. The right building is all timber wood framed and original building from that location. So what we tried to do was reproduce that, which is if you look at Wisconsin Main Street they don't like that reproducing buildings. They'd rather restore existing buildings. So we're somewhat restoring it back to what it was which was that gray block on top was covered with a metal panel and actually it continued all the way over and covered the second floor windows the other. It was offset the screen and it looked ugly. But this is and our senior architect probably remembers that. So we're trying to do it and do it economically. So it can, they're not looking to make a lot of money they're trying as we're doing with other buildings that we've done downtown we're trying to do it right. So to make it that it's can cash flow, right sir? Is that what you said, right? He's our development guy. So that's what I don't know. We already have a tenant that's ready to, we wanna start our inside demo to open up the space for her. We wanna get things going. She's excited to relocate over. This is gonna push us back. I'm sorry. But I don't know. I just, I see what's downtown and I don't see that this is a huge change of what we have. So then what you currently have allowed new construction. Final follow up. If I may have the floor, thank you. When was the library built? I don't know when the library built. I don't know. 1960s? That was that when they tried to do I don't, do you know offhand Dick when that was built? I didn't, I don't know if that was when the downtown mall was part of that construction and the fountain. But I would say 60s, 70s type deal. What was the 70s? Yeah. Late 70s. Then I'd like to finish off with a statement. I think this is a fair blending of what they're trying to restore versus what cash flows and what also kind of blends in with the encore across the street, the library and making our downtown a hip happen in place. I'm gonna be in full support of this, but I'm only one vote. Yeah. I mean, you can take a look when you see the pictures of what's there now. And then, you know, with the Wild Center and what we got around the street, there's just, you know, based on the guidelines, there's just no way staff can support what's been submitted. Yeah, this is a tough one because we'd like to see something happen there. And it's obviously an eyesore as it is. That design anywhere else I could certainly get behind. It's just the how far it's deviating from the Eighth Street guidelines. And they're there for a reason. We're supposed to try to adhere to them. That was supposed to be the understanding of the folks who are buying properties on Eighth Street is that then their neighbors will be following these and they're all gonna be comparable. This one where you've inherited a big concrete box makes it tough, but I think the hope would have been to go back to something more similar to that last go-around. Marcus, you were talking about doing more modern things. I think we are accepting their proposal to do things that don't necessarily meet the guideline requirements in order to get something workable there. But I guess it's a question of how far we take that. Do we completely ignore the guidelines and say, sure, this is a funky building. Let's just let it be funky. Or do we look at the rest of that facade and say it's a pretty important section of Eighth Street and we should be pushing for something that's just a little more in keeping with the expectations. Can I ask a quick question? Please. Would the biggest thing be the metal paneling when you talk about it that way? Right, is that really, I mean, because that would be the more modern look that's coming around more and like slow foods and things like that, but it's okay. Yeah, I think, as I'm looking at it, the first thing I would like to see change would be the mural corner. If we could keep the brick base, I'm never a fan of EFAS coming down to contact level with pedestrians and just the wear and tear on that. Something happening above that, I would be open to a lot more options above that brick base. And while I'm not a huge fan of murals, maybe something tied into the arts district there does make sense. There is precedent, it's around the corner, so I'm less concerned with the Eighth Street applications than right on the front facade. The corner, it's a nicely detailed design set of materials and pieces, just not right for me, for here. I think if, again, to take a more modern approach to it, and maybe we could accept something that's more modern and less cost prohibitive for you. But personally, I'd like to see something that's, if you're doing it that way, it would be more of a reflection of the historic rhythms and proportions, rather than being the monolithic treatment. Can you do something that at least breaks it up and respects the traditional vocabulary, even if you're doing it in different materials? So I guess that would be the thought I would have that if we were going to accept something that wasn't entirely in line with those guidelines, that would at least be making a gesture to the rest of the street elevation. Dick. Comment on the design that's submitted. I think the design is remarkable. It's quite good, actually. I don't like the mural, but I don't think many people would. I think the mural could be appropriate, or maybe simply a white wall would work, just as well as a study in triangles. But I think this board has a responsibility not only for design, but also to watch out what's happening in the commerce of our downtown area. And to make things unaffordable is not an easy thing to do. With that in mind, I would like to propose that the design as submitted be approved with the exception of the mural, which I would either want resubmitted or accept simply a white wall. Second. That was a second, Marcus. Yeah. So we have our proposal to accept as submitted with the exception of the mural, which can either be eliminated or what was the other provision there? Just a white wall. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Jerry? Joe, can you walk me back through on that side where the mural is, what you were talking about as far as how far up the new material goes? One more slide up. And then I'll make my comments. Want me to go up to that one on this one? Yeah, the photos. Closer to that one. So that top left photograph is that elevation and the bottom left quadrant of that facade is I believe where the brick is that has a bevel worked into it. So it sort of provides some brick detailing up to just above the top of the window heights. And that's something you're trying to keep or? It's nice brickwork. And again, I don't like to see EFAS down at grade level. If they were to do something up above that and just paint that brick or if it's in good shape, leave it as is, that would be my preference. Well, that building addition I think was done in the 60s and how your time is dick on stuff like that. But that was a 60s infill from that original building. The other one has to be early 1900s that we are restoring that building. The best that we can with that it will look like it did to the layman. But then what we had on the north elevation was what you said, the combination of the brick and then the block above it. I just felt to give a smooth slate over the whole thing. We could just cover it, give us some insulation value for that south wall and have a nice smooth surface. If you're looking that we would just cut it to that window height and leave that and either paint the brick below and then do the EFAS above, I would be open to that. And then it's the backside is the brick and that could just, but you have the old cream city brick which we'd be painting all the brick on the backside. So all the back, the west elevation could just be all painted then. But I'm just looking at trying to cover the maestery versus painting that, that's not gonna look good with brick. So that's what, but I guess a band below it, if you think that would be fine to keep that. Then that cuts my insulation, or my EFAS price, which then I can come back with a more attractive, this was just a concept of what we wanted to kind of do for over on that side. So we could get some artists, I don't know if Chad or who had, who's if you enlisted the help from the John Michael Hall Art Center with other murals with your mural program, but the enlist I have the person that did the above and beyond our big thing on that wall, she priced a mural for me. So it can be, I wanted to something with instruments and more of the, I'm very proud of what we did with the restoring the Wild Center and uncovering that. So if that makes sense, I'm trying to hit a happy me. I just don't want to go back. I gotta get going. She's here tonight. She wants my nephew to sign the lease and get us started. I'm sorry. So the motion as it stands is for that portion of the wall to be just painted white or submitted redesign or redesign on that portion of the wall. I just want to be clear really quick. That was just a concept. We definitely are looking to have something more arts and music or cultural area of the town type of mural there that would kind of let people know that that's what that area is and things like that. So that's just absolute concept. So thanks. Yeah, my thought is more in line. I think I'm willing to give up the windows and the rhythm and vocabulary we were talking about earlier on the corner there. But I just don't see this as a place for a mural. That's my opinion. I think it's just too much wall and too visible from where it's located. I would prefer to keep the stonework there at the window height and everything above just paint into the back. Keep that simple and very straightforward and not do much work there. Everything else. I'm not a huge fan of the blended architecture, but I think given what we're trying to do here to further the cause, I would be in favor of that. But I just don't see a mural fitting in there. That's just my view. Thanks, Chair. Bob, any comments from your end? Not to put you on the spot or anything. Yeah. It's just a weird situation as the city isn't supporting it. I don't understand where we stand or how that works. We are the final arbiters. Good taste. Right, you guys have recommendations. Right, it's up to us to listen to that. I think we have to at least acknowledge it and take it into account with our thinking. But we as the board do not have to be held to that, which is why we're here and we vote on it. Yeah, and this was a document that was passed by Planning Commission Architecture Review, City Council in terms of people saying the bid, others in terms of wanting these requirements to bring us back historically and things like that. So that's why these are here. And Joe is right, the board can make those decisions, but staff needs to bring this up to your attention and make sure that I'm saying, hey, this is what we got. This is what the council approved. This is what I think we should do, but the board does have the authority to make those decisions. Yes, this is a follow up to that. We do have these guidelines. Dick raises a great point that if these guidelines are pushing things in a direction that the current economy can't support, that makes it difficult. But at that point, I would ask Steve to be checking internally with the city, at what point would it make sense to rethink some of the guidelines just so that we aren't just ignoring them from here on out and are able to have something that the city is comfortable with. That's what they want the aesthetic of Eighth Street to look like and that we've got good guidance then.  I was just going to add, as your city council representative here, that is already in my wheelhouse and I've been making eyes at the mayor that this is something that we should take a look at for the future because it does seem like the cost of refinishing or bringing back these historic buildings is getting higher and higher and that's gonna price a lot more people out. For the record, are you supposed to use it? Yeah, and I think in the end, what it comes down to is what do we want downtown to look like? Do we want it to look like Taylor Drive and Business Drive and North Avenue or do we want to bring back the historic aspect of it which increases the value of properties which brings business in there? You can look at it the exact opposite way of how you're looking at it. And from my perspective, I think the guidelines are important for us to have and yes, we can revisit them but I think the vision that's in here is the vision that we all should be striving for. Thanks, Steve. The other thing I would throw in that's hopefully my last comment on this is just cautioning us that when we let some of these projects go through that are exceptions which may be well justified for that particular project, they always seem to come back to bite us because Steve or someone will come in and say, but look what they did here. Why can't we match that? Which is a valid point that if we accept this as submitted, this is going to be something that we have to make clear was specifically for this project and our intent was not to change precedent that we would still want to be sticking to the guidelines unless they get changed. So it just puts another building out there that can be used to fight against having to stick to the guidelines. Would it be prudent to add to our motion at this point then that this particular building is not the original building and was built not in the historic timeframe and it was quite ugly before it was fixed. Whatever terminology you'd like to use. But again, we've got guidelines throughout the whole community. We have the riverfront guidelines, we have the south pier guidelines, we have downtown and they're guidelines. They're not that you have to do everything because things have been changed. And this is still that corner building is not what I justify as a historic building. The one to the center is next to that where it's the little green room for the wild center which used to be my grandmother's, great-grandmother's place, business, Rosenthal Cafe, like to restore that. That's an original building, like to be restored. The other buildings we'd like to restore or mimic what was there with other infills. So I'm the guy that I'm Mr. Main Street. I know we need to get that guy in Sheboygan, the city of Sheboygan, not Sheboygan Falls. It'd be a different answer. Well, you had the chance to be a Main Street community and you decided not to. But you take a look at the building and you can see what was there at the corner. You know, it says the place center. It was the previous building. Yeah, so, yep. So. Right. So yeah. I mean, are there other citing options to metal that is approved by the history guidelines? Just curious and sounds like metal isn't allowed. Yeah, you know, I mean a lot of it is trying to bring back the original kind of material. So I guess in this particular case, you do have a block building from your perspective. Yeah, because previous to that, it was a brick building. Yeah, yeah. So what we had done in that previous time was to recreate that, was use an EFAS with a brick pattern. And that's what the previous was doing that. Right. So it's just coming back and actually realizing what we have there, which is not that corner building. We do have the other that we're using the transit panels, which had the small little four by four glass, like we mimicked at the entry lobby of the ticket office at the Wild Center, but we just can't do that anymore. So we made that actually a signboard for that. But then bringing back storefront, which we're doing that with other historic buildings downtown, the old Keekley's buildings that was brought back, but a lot of that stuff was covered up over the years too. So we're uncovering, but that was a different era too. So we're trying to have that as a corner feature, which faces the library, which is a 70s, 80s, early 80s building. And then what was the old Yonkers Prangies across the street and stuff like that, which is using more modern materials. And then still beyond that is a lot of the storefronts across with the old Baxter building or Woolworth building going way back and stuff like that. Yeah, you have those original buildings to deal with and that's why it has been a struggle to make it work financially. So I think I'm done talking to that. Hearing no further discussion, is everyone clear on the motion that's on the table? Can we restate it just so we are clear? So the current motion is to approve as submitted with the exception of the portion of building shown as mural and that that can either come back painted entirely white or to be resubmitted for that portion of the building. You had mentioned keeping brick. That would be part of the resubmittal if they chose to go that route. Whether it's mural above or not, that would be part of the resubmittal. Could I ask one question? As far as white, does everyone think white is too stark as far as a color? I mean, that's gonna be a lot of white. You know, I mean, that's a stark contrast in terms of colors. So Dick, was your intent to be white or just a uniform color? I personally like white, but if the board would like to make an amendment to that, I would be willing to listen. I don't know if you guys had any thought. We painted the same as we're painting the back, which I think we wanted to blend more of the front brick, which is more of a cream city. So it's a little yellowish tan look to that. That's why I thought it would look so well in the alley because the whole back, the brick was gonna be just washed and painted. So now we're looking at continuing that around and just doing that all the way to where the metal panels would start above the storefront windows. I'm wondering if to simplify the motion, it's just taken down to approve as submitted with the exception of the portion where the mural starts, that part to be resubmitted with the understanding that it's just gonna be some modification of what's happening to color, mural. That's fine. I'd be happy to submit that as we get closer to that. Dick, is that? I'd be willing to accept that as an amendment to the motion I made. And second, we can take that as a friendly amendment. So we have a friendly amendment to the motion. Is everyone clear on what we're voting on? We're a lot of windows here. All right. In that case, if all those in favor could signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Sounds like we have a majority and it is approved. Thank you. Good luck to you. Glad to see something happening there very much. And we just need that portion where the mural starts coming back for a resubmiddle just to work out the details on that. Sounds good. Thank you all very much. Thank you. We do have item number seven that needs to be addressed. This is our annual need to shuffle the meeting because of the election and appointment of committee members. But I know Wednesday the 27th is the state AIA conference. So I won't be able to be here. Let me ask everyone a question, Bob. I don't know if you're gonna be gone too. Would you guys prefer it on that next Monday after that? I don't know what that is. Monday is the second. Would that work for people? That works for me. Works for me. Okay, so we'll switch. So just be sure to understand no meeting on the typical Monday and I'll highlight and bold it but we'll probably be on that May. What was that date again? Second. Most likely. All right. Appreciate it. And we need to get kicked out so I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned. Thanks everyone. Thank you.