OTAN, Outreach and Technical Assistance Network. Welcome, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it. Super excited about this. I've done it a couple of times at different conferences. If you haven't been able to go to some of the conferences lately, this would be a good opportunity that you're here because this whole past year has been so crazy. And then especially on top of that are the assessments. And how are we assessing our students either formatively or summatively or through for costus or ill civics. There's so many different ways. And because we were still just trying to learn how to teach online, now it's how are we assessing and how can we move forward now? Because a lot of us have gone back into the classroom. So now we're either hybrid or high flex or where we have students in the classroom and students online still. And then how do we work with that? So we're gonna talk about all those different situations. I hope that you guys can see my screen. It says assessing students remotely. Are you guys all good? Thank you, Kathleen. Yeah, thank you. So I was debating whether or not to retitle this or put a little subtitle in there. Basically saying, AKA learn from Alisa's mistakes. So I'm hoping that by me going through all of these things that we're gonna be talking about today that you can learn from my mistakes and not do them so that it'll be expedited for you quickly so that you can go ahead and start working on these yourself. So again, my name is Alisa Takeuchi and I am an ESL instructor for Garden Grove Adult Education and I am a subject matter expert for OTAN. And this is going on my fourth year there. My contact information is down at the bottom. You can always reach me at OTAN. So you can email support at OTAN.us as well. All right, so many of you already know about OTAN's resources. So please, please, please go to the OTAN website, OTAN.us and check out all the different resources that are available for you. They're updated consistently, weekly with all of our trainings and webinars and articles and so many other resources for you to peruse and it's free. And if you become a member of OTAN, then you can also get these in your email too. Oh, and in addition, because schools are now starting to come back into class, I mean, onto campuses, please contact OTAN because if your agency specifically needs something, then we can have a trainer go and talk to your agency specifically about your needs. You don't have to wait for a webinar.  I'm not sorry, not go to your site, but help you specifically. All right, so here's my agenda for today. We're gonna be talking about formative assessments and summative assessments and basically what they are and how you can go about doing them. We will talk about CASAS assessments specifically. We'll go ahead and go through some questions and answers if you have any, and then we're gonna wrap it up and that's it. So I'm gonna take you on about an hour and 10 minute journey and we'll see how it works. So let's take a look at the bigger picture. So why do we assess, okay? So if you would, two things, I forgot to tell you this. So two things, if you could, actually no, I'll wait for this. So one thing, why do we assess? If you can go in the chat right now and type, why do you assess? Why do you assess your students if you do? Yeah, exactly. So students can show what they know, to check for understanding, make sure they're comprehending, see what they understand at a given point, motivation to study, hopefully find out what they know to monitor progress. Yeah, exactly. These are exactly the answers that we're all familiar with. Yep, to see whether you need to go back and reteach something, comprehension, understanding. Yeah, perfect. This is teaching 101. We assess because we basically want to know what they know and whether that be at the beginning of the lesson, like a needs assessment or at the end as comprehension and retention. So yeah, those are exactly it. So the big picture here is now starting to think about why do we assess it, how do you assess it? Okay, so how do you assess your students and this is what we're gonna be talking about today. And then what do we do with that information? So a lot of the motivation for this particular presentation is because we're in a wasp gear, Garden Grove is in a wasp gear and it's all about evidence, data and evidence and how do we know? How can we show wasp what our students know? And a lot of times I talk to the teachers here and I say, how do you assess? Oh, I give them, every day I ask them questions and I see how they react and then I say, well, how do you know that they know? Where's your evidence? How do, if somebody came in from wasp and said, show me how you know the student is at this level. If we don't have any sort of evidence or something that's recorded, then it's kind of just from our memory. Oh, because I know my student answers this question in a certain way or my student always answers the question, so I know. So it's like kind of embedded in us as a teacher but then at the same time, we should be having some sort of record of it like we do with costs and things. We'll talk about that too. So formative assessments, if you're not familiar with that or I used to always get confused about formative and summative, I couldn't remember which one was which. So formatives are ongoing. So it's the scaffolding. It's the activities that you do daily to start building up toward the summative. Summative is your summary, it's your ending assessment. It's what did they learn in this lesson and how do I know that they learned it and how well did they learn it? It's mostly informal, but you could have quizzes in there and the more that it's graded, probably the better.  I mean, and I know this kind of strange but they actually do like tests because they wanna know what they know and they wanna know how well they know it. And so that's what's great about adult ed is that students are so hungry for so many things that like K through 12 aren't. So it's really kind of nice to be able to give them assessments and they're actually kind of happy about it. All right. And again, formatives, they prepare you for the summative. They prepare the students for the summative assessments. So in your classes, if you haven't already been doing it chat has been one of the most successful ways for me to assess my students on a daily basis, multiple times a day. So in chat, when we were in the classroom it's kind of like those little mini whiteboards. So I teach beginning ESL. So I used to use the little mini whiteboards all the time. So the students would sit there and I would ask a question or whatever they would write it down, they would show me and I could see instantly who knew it and who didn't and I could just give some feedback right away. The chat has become that for me. So, and I'll give you an example right now. So you are all my students and in the chat please type in your last name. Perfect, Richard, thank you. Good, wow, great. Students, I love it. Everybody's got capital letters, spelling looks good. Perfect, you're listening. Okay, so Melinda, don't forget. Melinda, your last name, capital H, capital H. Don't forget your cat. Can you do that one more time for me?  Now you have too many capitals. So shift H and then OLT, shift H, oh, perfect. There you go. So again, that's like the instant feedback that you can get from students that you can give and you get from your students by using chat. I was testing, they're listening. Did they hear the question? They're comprehension. Did they understand the word last name? And then could they, the tech, could they type it? We had a student that was having a little difficulty, but not a problem.  So this is how I do this with my students every day. We just kind of go back through and we do very basic things, last name, first name, their ID number, where are you from?  And then after a while, most of them get it, but the ones who don't, I'm still practicing with them. I haven't forgotten them. So again, that's a really good way. So if you see on the slide, you know, you could do this with all levels of English. You could, you know, you could ask them about anything. It could be, I do dictations sometimes with my students. You know, we'll do sentences. So I will say, my teacher is Alisa and all the students have to type it. I check for capitals. I check for periods, things like that. I'm checking for their listening.  But and the bonus part of this is that their listening comprehension has gone way up since COVID and their typing has gone way up since COVID. So at the very beginning, like about a year ago, a lot of students, their typing was not so fast and that's okay. Cause a lot of them were on their phones or on tablets. So they're not actually typing. They're like, but they've gotten really fast too. And the other thing is that you have to be careful because students will copy. I had somebody ask me this the other last week when I did this at a present, at a conference and they said, what does that mean? And I said, well, it's kind of like the whiteboards where it's a, it's a judgment free zone where if a student doesn't know the answer they can kind of look at somebody else's whiteboard and then write the answer and then show it. This is the same thing. If the students have access to the chat like if they're not on their phone where it's just one chat at a time if they're actually like on their desktop or their laptop and they can see the whole chat box. And if they don't really know the answer they can look at everybody else and then figure out the answer and do it themselves. But I found out a genius way. One of my teachers just the other day told me what she does is that she, so I have my students use everyone. I make sure that all the students are on everyone. She does it the opposite. She has them click on everyone and puts her name in. So everybody's doing a direct message to her. So they can't see each other's chats. Only she can see their chats. And I thought that was genius. So if you really wanna test their knowledge about something whether they really know it or not then have them change everyone to your name. So we're gonna try that right now.   Good so there was two things there.  Yeah that's perfect. And you can't see everybody else's answers. You can only see yours. So I can double check and see that Melinda has slight problems with listening and we'll work on that no problem. Celeste great job. Good job. Good very nice good. So now everybody please make sure you go back to everyone.  Go back to everyone me too. So now if you type in the chat. Yes Melinda we can all see you now. So now if we do chat then everybody can see everybody's answers and you can teach your students. It takes if you haven't done chat yet with your students it takes a little bit of patience. It takes multiple times for you to do it but it works and it will happen. So don't worry that it's too difficult for them. It's not. They will get used to it. So far everything in tech like as far as tech goes it may take multiple times for you to do but students really are resilient and they really have kind of stepped up to the plate to really acclimate toward what is expected of them. The difficult part is us as teachers to troubleshoot all the different devices. That's what's been really difficult because we have students on so many different devices and I don't know anything about iPhones or MacBooks, you know, things like that. I'm not an Apple person. So I do have an iPad but yeah I don't know things about iPhones and stuff so I just kind of have to Google it and I have to like show them online but I have to try to troubleshoot or prepare them like doing how-tos on many, many, many different devices. Also a way to individualize to make sure that a specific student knows the answer is to call on them individually. So for example, I could say Anthony, please type your area code in the chat. Please type your area code. He may not be paying attention, so we'll see. Oh, Anthony, I'm just kidding. All right, let's try somebody else. Let's go on to somebody else. Anna, can you please type in your area code in the chat for me? Oh, so close. So that is your zip code? That's your zip code. That's five numbers. Your area code is for your phone and it's three numbers. Can we try that again? Perfect. That's right. Oh, Janet, good. Thank you. Oh, great, you guys. Okay, but wait, we're calling on Anna. So hang on, but good job. Those are your area codes. So again, I mean, this happens with my students all the time. I'm trying to call on one student but they only hear area code and so they all start doing the answers and that's fine. And you encourage them and you say great job but, you know, let's see if we can do one student at a time because I just wanna check to see to make sure that Anna understood. And she got a little confused with the zip code and that's okay. She did it again and she was fine. So what would happen with your students? If you know that a particular student is having difficulties with a particular thing, a vocabulary word or whatever, call on them every day. So tomorrow during class, we're gonna do the same thing and I'm gonna call on Anna again. Hey, Anna, in the chat, can you put in your area code? And we'll see if she does it. If she kind of gets confused still, we just keep doing it. And after a while, she'll understand the difference between zip code and area code or whatever it is that you are trying to have the student retain. Let's see here. A lot of times, like something like this where everybody's kind of having different answers, that's always the best. I have a lot of, most of my classes, Vietnamese. So if I say, where are you from? You know, it's all of them are gonna say Vietnam and then three of them are gonna say Mexico. So sometimes it doesn't always work, you know, to your advantage if everybody has the exact same answer but that's okay too. They're still practicing their typing and they're alphabetizing and I mean, there are capitalizations and things. All right. So I would like for you in the chat, everybody, please type one way you either do already or could use chat in your classroom, in your particular situation, if you're teaching or, you know, in a business meeting or, you know, in a staff meeting, how would you use or how do you use attendance? Perfect. We're gonna do that with us too. So you must have learned that from OTAN because you know OTAN, every time we have something, we always tell you to type your name and your agency. Yeah, a lot of you use attendance. Spelling, good. Perfect. Spelling test, yeah, dictation. Yeah, even links to relevant websites. I haven't gotten there. I haven't done that yet because, because I have so many students that are on different devices, navigating them to another site is not a problem with the link but getting them back is really difficult. So I haven't, I have to think about that more about how I can help my students do that more, you know, to do that easier. Upload of files for assignments, great. Yeah, again, yeah, I just haven't gotten to that place yet with my students because they're not on all, they're not all on computers or laptops. And I just, I'm worried that it's too hard. I'm gonna be sweating if I try to like troubleshoot everybody, trying to get them the link and then try to get them back into the Zoom. Great, I love it. Thank you guys for your, your feedback. And the next question is, what are you assessing? Okay, so always keep in mind when you're in here about what it is that you want to know from the students. Is it the listening skills? Did they hear the question? Did they understand what they heard? Is it the content, the vocabulary? Do they understand first name versus last name? Area code versus zip code? Is it the technology? Did they, you know, make a capital letter for their name or for the where they're from? And, and then, you know, it's kind of ends up being all of them. So that's kind of up to you. At first, if it's just, is it just a listening skill and maybe the content, you know, what is your, what is your last name? And they typed their last name, but there was no capital. Well, they understood you. They just didn't do the grammar correctly. They didn't use the technology. So then the next time you explain to them and then the next time they do get it. So it, you know, you really have to be kind of my, it's not an all in one at the beginning. It's not, you must get all of it right to be right. It's just like when they're in the classroom and they're writing on pieces of paper. If they wrote their name correctly, but there was no capital, then we move, we work on that later on. I beg you, if you haven't been using chat in your classes, especially for beginning ESL students or beginning tech students, embrace the silence. It takes a long time. Some of them have to process. Their listening skills may not be high. So they have to listen and kind of process what was being asked of them. Their tech, their Wi-Fi may be slower. You know, I'm saying it and they're hearing it a second later. And I know when Wi-Fi is off because I'll ask them the question and it'll take about like a second and a half. Like it's just kind of long, but not too long. Then all of a sudden the answers start flooding in. So, you know, don't start stressing, oh my gosh, my students didn't understand or they knew I shouldn't have done the chat. This was a bad idea. It's not just give them some time, let them process. You'll always have at least one student who understood and can do it. And then when the other students start seeing that then they'll start processing it too. Texting may not be fast for them. If you haven't done chat or if they're not typing a lot right now, they're gonna be slow at typing. So give them a moment to just process and get it. And then if most of your students have gotten it and some students haven't, move on to the next one. But then when the other students are kind of slow and then they put, for example, you can see it in my right here. So we were talking about time. If you look at the last little box here, they were talking about time, like what time is it? And you can see the students and then she had her name. So, you know, that was before but she was so slow that it came late. And it's not a problem.  I see your name, good. We're gonna work on your capitals, you know, things like that. You know, it's not a problem that she does it so late. Everybody's on the next one. It's not a problem. And then you can see I did it myself. So I typed her name so I can show her what it should look like as an example. So these are some of the things that we do. So, you know, we do their name. Please type your name in the chat. So some of you guys, you said you used it for attendance, that's exactly what I do too. And then, you know, what is your ID number? I checked to see, do they know their ID number? Can they do, can they type with the numbers? And then where are you from? So these are all basic questions that I, you know, I ask almost every single day. And then where are you assessing?  Zoom has an attendance feature built in, yes. And it's nice because it gives a timestamp. You'll know exactly when your student is signed in, when they left, if they got booted out, you know, if they left and came back, why did they leave and come back?  Yeah, Richard, that's exactly right. Anybody else have anything that they want to ask about or contribute? Embracing the silence. No, I'm just kidding. All right, so let's get to the meat of it. Where are we assessing? So up until April 5th, prior to April 5th, we were all, Garden Grove was all online. And then April 5th, after our spring break, we welcome students back into the classroom. If they wanted to. And so I currently have six students in my classroom and 20 in Zoom. So now the mindset has shifted. How do I assess my students in class and in Zoom, you know, in an efficient way? And so prior to the students coming to class, everybody was on Zoom. And we used, I used breakout rooms. So all of the teachers here did something different. We weren't very uniformed in that sense in that we just let the student, the teachers make their own decisions on how they wanted to assess what was easiest for them. Because this whole year has just been so crazy. It's been survival this whole year. And so to let, give the teachers their choice on what works best for them with what they know and learned for their classroom was probably the best solution for us. Whether that will stay true for next school year, that's gonna be up to our administrators to figure that out. But for me, I felt that using the breakout rooms was the best solution, but it is time consuming because I only do one, you know, it's one to one. So it was, it takes a lot longer. But, you know, if I needed to really assess my students and get to know what do they know, then I had to, that's what I had to do. So breakout rooms, if you haven't done breakout rooms with your students, again, it's one of those things where you have to do it over and over again for them to feel more and more comfortable with. And for you on your end too, as a teacher, assigning breakout rooms and, you know, and opening the breakout rooms, that also takes a lot of doing over and over again where you feel comfortable with it. Yeah, that's a good question. And I'm gonna explain that in just a second. The first time I did a breakout room with my students, majority of them got it, some of them didn't. And so I ended up having about four students still in the main breakout room and everybody else, I mean, in the main room and everybody else was in the breakout rooms. So instead of trying to like explain to them, find join, it's blue, join, tap, click, you know, I just said, you know what? Let's just make this a breakout room. So those four students that were in the main room, they just chatted with themselves. I didn't try to force them to go find their breakout room. They just did the exercise amongst themselves. And then I went into the breakout rooms and I only made two because I have to go, you know, I have to go and bounce between the other ones to check to see if everybody was okay. And I didn't want to have five or 10, you know, bouncing around. So the first time I did it, I just made two so that I could check, okay, did these guys make it? Oh, did these guys make it? Great. And then, you know, they had some easy practice like, what's your name? Where are you from? You know, it was very simple conversation just to get them in the room. But the nice thing about it was they thought it was magical. They thought like I had some magic powers and like they were, it was almost like Star Trek. They got transported into another place. And then when I closed the breakout rooms, they came back and they were like, and we all laughed and laughed because they just, they couldn't believe that that had happened. They were just there with their friends and now, boof, they're back in the main room with everybody else again. And it was just like, it was so funny to them. And so, and I didn't anticipate that. And so we just laughed for like three minutes. We just laughed and laughed. I just let them think that I was magical. Exactly. All right. And so again, this is what I did. So this is what the picture looks like. So this is an EL Civics picture and we'll talk about that in a second. When you put students in a breakout room, just expect that they're probably gonna speak in their own language. Okay, I'm saying from my level for beginning ESL. Most likely they're gonna start speaking in their language in the breakout room and the first few times just let it go. They're so excited. They're super excited that they actually made it to the breakout room. And they haven't spoken to their friends in a classroom setting in probably a long time because I don't really let them speak Vietnamese in my class. So I just kind of let them, they were all talking about the breakout room in Vietnamese and things like that. And I just kind of let it go. But after a while, there is a point to the breakout room. You are going to the breakout room too, blah, blah, blah. And that's what your expectation is and that's what they should do. All right. So Anna was asking about what do the other students do while I'm in a breakout room with the student taking the test? Excellent question because please, please, please learn from my mistakes. So the first time I did it, I had this brilliant idea that I had the story. It was quite lengthy and some questions. So I had my students, I was having my students copy this story, so that it would take quite a while because I needed them to take a long time so that I could assess the students coming in and out of the breakout room.  And it was brilliant. I was so proud of myself and I opened up the breakout room. One student went to the breakout room with me. We started doing, I shared my screen in the breakout room. Lo and behold, the share in the main room disappeared. So the students that were in the main room popping ferociously that little story, that big story had nothing to do now because the story was gone. And I didn't know that because I'm in the breakout room testing the student until I went back into the main room to grab another student and the students were just sitting there. And I said, what's happening? What are you doing? And they're like, no story. No story. I didn't understand what I meant. I was like, what? And I said, no, no, copy. Like I'm thinking they don't understand. I'm like, copy, copy the story. And they're like, no teacher, no story. And then I realized what happened. So I had to quickly redo my thinking and I kept the story up there. I kept the questions up there. They all copied it all. And then they were able to work on it quietly, asynchronously while I took the students into the breakout room and shared my screen. So just let me warn you that when you share a screen in a breakout room, it does not, it affects your main room. So yeah, you will have to think of something for your students to do. Either, you know, maybe that particular day is testing day and the students are just in the main room and they're just waiting until it's their turn and then they leave. Or, you know, or you have them do what I did was they just copied something or, you know, if they all have books at home, you know, they're doing something asynchronously while they're waiting for their turn to go into the breakout room. So again, it was just kind of those little things that I didn't even know until it happened. So please learn from my mistake. When you are assessing and you're thinking about the end result, you're thinking of the summative, whatever that form of test is, you must practice it. You must scaffold it and practice it because otherwise they're not gonna know how to take the, you can give them all the content and they know it, but if they don't know how to take the test, they're not gonna be successful. It's kind of like the CASA test when we're in the classroom and students don't know how to bubble, right? They just X or they check. It's that if we don't teach them how to take the test, they still won't be successful even if they know the answer. So keep in mind the kind of assessment you want to give your students and practice that over and over and over. The technology shouldn't be the barrier. It's the content that you're trying to establish unless the assessment is the technology. And again, but you still have to keep practicing it so that the students are successful. So whether it be a Google form, whether it be an oral assessment, remote control, which we will practice in a second or a paper pencil. Maybe it's a paper pencil. So the content down here, the content is the same, but the tool is different. So make sure that you keep it brief. So if you're scaffolding the content, do it in different ways. Maybe it's multiple choice or maybe it's writing or maybe it's whatever the content is, but then also practice what that test is going to look like. If it's a Google form, do a Google form with them in different ways. All right, so this is how I teach my students, my beginning ESL students and language, remember language and tech digital literacy don't always correlate, right? So language literacy could be low, but tech literacy could be high or vice versa. You could have an advanced ESL student with low tech skills. So you have to keep that in mind too. It's a big balance about how to know what you need to teach your students at all times. So for my students, I introduced the skill all together as the class. So whether it be on the big projector, I'm sharing my screen, whatever it is, we're all doing it together. It's teacher directed. I am teaching them how to do whatever it is I want them to learn. I demonstrate the skill step by step by step. And I usually make us Google slides to some sort of presentation with step one, step two, step three. We go over that usually at least two times the presentation. After the third time, I'm asking them, okay, what is step number one? And they're telling me what step number one is. Okay, what's step number two? They're telling me what step number two is. And if they don't remember, they don't know. Of course I'm there to help them. After we've gone through it a few times, now I'm going to give students remote control of my computer. And one student is going to demonstrate what it is that we were just practicing. So we'll talk about remote control. In fact, let's do it in the chat right now. Can you type yes or no, whether you've used remote control in your classroom with your students? So we're pretty 50-50. Good, yeah, so we're pretty 50-50. So some of you are familiar with remote control and then some of you don't. So we're going to talk about it. And please, for those of you that have used it with your students, please feel free to chime in too with suggestions or ideas of how you use it, okay? And then the student demonstrates doing the skill and then the students do the skill on their own after class, okay? So now it's basically the A and WIPIA, right? So they're doing it on their own and they're demonstrating the skills to me because remember they're preparing now for the assessment that's going to happen. So this is an example of one of the things that my students had done with remote control. We used Google Maps to find a health center near their house for the nutrition, EL Civics Nutrition task. And so I had to show them how to get to Google Maps, how to type in their address, how to click on nearby, how to type in health center and then what to look for and then how to copy the information about the name and the address on the phone number and the hours of the health center that's near their home, all right? So let me get out of this real quick. All right, so you are my students and we are learning how to use Google Maps to find a health center near your house. And for the example, I'm going to use our school address, okay? All right, so students, number one, we're going to Google. Number one, go to Google and type maps.google.com. All right, maps.google.com, all right? And now we're going to type in our address. So let's do the school address first. So one, one, two, six, two, guard and grow. And, you know, it's right there. I don't, it's hard because they just keep typing.  So, you know, for the sake of time, I'm just going to click on it and I'll say, wow, there's our school. Here's our school. And now we're going to click now. And now we're going to click nearby. Look for the word nearby and click on that, tap on nearby. And then I'm going to type health center because we want to look for a health center near our home and enter health center, enter. All right, so students, all of these in red, all of these reds, these are health centers. The H means hospital, hospital. And you'll see them over here on the left-hand side. So you need to find three, three health centers close to your house and write their name, their address, their phone number, and their hours, you know, blah, blah, blah, okay? So I tell them, what's the name of this one? And they say Orange County, you know, da, da, da. All right, what's their address? What's their phone number? So this is how I'm getting them, introducing them. So I would do this two, at least two times with them.  So I'm on Google, let me close my chat. All right, I am sharing my screen. In order to use remote control, you as the teacher need to be sharing your screen at the top or wherever your toolbar is, where it says mute, stop, video, participants, chat that toolbar, you will see remote control, okay?  I'm going to hit remote control and I'm just going to pick on Kathleen. So Kathleen, all right, it's your turn. So I'm going to choose, so when I choose remote control, the participants that are able to remote control are listed.  So that's one of the caveats. You have to be careful about your devices and which students. They can do it on a phone, they can do it on a tablet, but I'm telling you, it's pretty difficult because the manipulation with the finger and the cursor is a little bit tough. Tablet is a little easier, but phone is pretty hard. So if you can encourage your students to, for one day borrow somebody's laptop or maybe they can come to school or something, I would encourage it. But if their only choice is a phone or a tablet, you have to be really patient with them because it is kind of difficult to manipulate with their fingers. All right, so let me choose Kathleen. Oopsie, let me choose Kathleen. All right, so Kathleen, you should see, you have remote control. Yes. Yes, all right. So please, what is step number one? What do we do first? Go to maps.google.com. Perfect, okay. So she, I'm not touching my computer. She is using my computer as her computer and she's showing me how to do it. So let's use the school address, one, one, two, six, two, guard and grove, boulevard. Perfect, all right. Good, so now where do we do? Nearby. Perfect, that's right. So click on nearby. And what are we looking for? Health center. Mm-hmm, and enter. Enter. Good, and now, which ones are the health centers? Do you remember? The red are health centers and the H is a hospital. Yes, that's right. So you can choose any of those. And so let's take a look at, let's just pick one. Let's go to OC Wellness Center. So up at the top, uh-huh. So no, no, let's just kind of like, what is the phone number?<PHONE_NUMBER>. Perfect, and so that's what you're going to write on your paper, you know, and this is, you know, of course it's beginning literacy and you know, Kathleen's a genius. So of course you did so well. But you know, and for the demonstration part of it, I would, I would choose a student that I know is still a little bit more tech savvy because if you pick somebody who's like, maybe struggling a little bit. I mean, it's a lot of pressure on them and they're like starting to sweat. And you know, there's a lot of like mishaps and things like that. You want the students to feel like they're going to be okay. So when they see a student do it, then you know, they start to feel a little bit more confident. And so like I would pick a student that's a little bit more high tech the first time. But then, you know, the more we practice it again and again, then maybe I would find a student that's like middle ground tech and or middle ground listening too. Because again, it's a lot of listening and a lot of directions. So I would pick another student to do it. And you know, maybe for about three days in a row or four days in a row, I would have like one or two students demonstrate this for me. If it's, if a student is very low tech and very low listening skills, you know, it's very difficult for them. And then they start feeling a lot of pressure and they start feeling, they feel a lot of anguish. And so, you know. Lisa, then would you have volunteers to put in there? So then they could discuss about what their address would look like when they put it in there as far as spaces and stuff. Yeah. Hearing there's no problem. Okay. Yeah, exactly.  So that's why I always use our school address. But yeah, exactly. When it's actually their turn, like their demonstrate, like Kathleen, you would have put in your address.   I can see there's, I'm not looking at the chat. I'm going to stop share. And let me just stop real quick because I see there's some chats in here. Let me just go through this real quick. Can you only do remote control with the paid version of Zoom? Nope, yeah. So Melinda answered about the free version. Again, there are some little caveats about, you know, who has access. Oh, thanks Melinda. I wasn't very clear about that. Yeah, I tried to show you that I was like hands-free when Kathleen was doing that. Yes. So there are two ways for remote control. A student can request remote control or the teacher can give remote control. I personally, I want it to be as least amount of steps and processes for my students. So I give them remote control. And but yeah, definitely a student can ask for remote, you know, request for remote control. And then I say yes or no on my end. I did have a teacher a couple of weeks ago, I did this at a conference and they said that it was very difficult for their district to be on board with this remote control because it didn't feel like it was secure. And so I explained to them, I said, yeah, I could definitely see where that is, but the teacher always has control of what the students control on their computer, you know, what not.  But I showed them on here, I have the, let me see if I, oops. I have the COSIS. There is a link that I put on there about COSIS because COSIS promotes the remote control because that's how we do some of the COSIS testing. So when I showed them that link and they were able to show their district and the district IT people, then they were all on board with it as well. So, you know, if you ever have, if you have some difficulties, I see that there's a link that Melinda put in there about remote control. Yeah, if there's some questions from your district or your IT people about security and things like that, just show them the support from Zoom and see if that helps. Melinda, are there any, I'm not really seeing the chat very well. Is there more questions? There weren't any other questions, Lisa, you're good. Thanks. All right. And if you do, I mean, please again, you can unmute if you want, or you can just type it in the chat. Sorry, I already went through this pink. All right, so let's go ahead and move on to summatives. So now that, you know, we've practiced all these different ways of giving it a test, now at the end of a unit or COSIS or whatever it is, the formal, the more formal test, it's more at stake for the students. There's a grade involved, whereas before maybe the quizzes and things, there weren't very many grades. So give me a COSIS exam through rural culture. Yes, Lori, it is. And COSIS actually acknowledges it, and then they show, they give you step-by-steps on how to do it. You have to register, we will talk about this later, but there are steps involved on your end as the teacher or the administrator or the proctor, but yeah, it can be done. And I will show you, I just did one today. So I want to talk a little bit about different kinds of assessments. So if you could, in the chat, could you please type what kind of assessments you give your students? What kind of assessments? Whether they be just oral, you know, whether it's Google Forms, paper and pencil, what kind of assessments, you know, and maybe there are others that you guys are using that I just didn't list. How are you assessing your students? Oral and Google Forms, Canvas. Yeah, that's my 2021-22 job assignment at OTAN is to learn more Canvas. So I'm not really familiar with it right now. I'm more moodle right now, but yeah, that's my next Google Forms, mostly multiple choice.  Oral, Google Forms, multiple choice. Yeah, so a lot of you are doing, yeah, whatever's working best for you, you know, and it's got to be like easy. You can't develop, you know, assessments and tests that are difficult for you or the student. I want to get to the good stuff. So we're coming down to it. Oh, here's that thing. Here's the link. So if you're looking at the handouts, you'll see the link for the CASAs website remote testing also if you didn't catch it in the chat.  So you have to go through that also. You have to do the agency-wide proctor signature and then the individual proctor, you know, a little training since the training that you have to go through. You must register the device to be used as the proctor, the test. You must set up the test sessions. So there is some background things that need to go. There are some steps that need to be happening in the background, but once that gets done and you're doing it quite a bit, you'll get used to it. It does, you know, it's fairly easy. Now, I haven't had these problems, but my agency and I heard from them that other agencies, well, it's like a cost-testing. There are some glitches that are happening right now. And so sometimes the student will be in the middle of the test and it'll shut down. Like the whole thing will just shut down. And so we have moved away from doing remote control testing to having the students actually come to our agency. So we kind of moved on from that. But for me as an individual, sometimes I have to do one-on-ones. And so they'll come to my, and I'll do a remote control because I haven't had that problem yet, fingers crossed, but it's only just have to be one student. So you must explain the protocols to the students about checking to make sure that first, if it's not my student, I have to check their ID, their photo ID to make sure that it's them taking the test. This is all from CASIS. So this is about the authenticity and security of the test. I checked to see that the person taking the test is actually them. They have to either show me with their laptop, they have to show me their workspace. Yeah, oh, sorry, I can't do it very well. Their workspace and their room, they have to swirl around the room so that we can see that nobody else is in the room to help them with the test. So those are kind of the things that the student needs to do in order to actually take the test remotely. And then while they're taking the test, everything freezes and then I watch the student take the test and I can only help them with technical questions or situations. I can't help them at all with the test, just like we would the CASIS no paper pencil test. And then we end the test. So for EL Civics, we, you know, just like many of you, if you continued to do EL Civics during the pandemic, you know, you might have had to switch from paper and pencil and transfer it onto digital assessments. And so that could have been tricky. In fact, it was really tricky for us at times because of, again, CASIS is very, very big about security and authenticity. So we had to make sure that the tests were authentic still and that they were secure so that the students are actually doing their own tests, not getting help or using books or, you know, and things like that. So, no, yes. So Lori, the, well, yes and no. Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry. So Lori, yes, CASIS remote control test, CASIS test, E-test is done through my Zoom through remote control. Yes. So I hope that answered your question. I don't know when you wrote it, but so, yeah. So the student, I prepared the test for the student. I give them my Zoom link. The student comes onto my Zoom. I check their area. I check their ID if it's not my student. I share my screen and then they proceed with the test. They put in their ID number and then they, you know, we begin the test and then I'm watching them do their test. So, yeah, it is through Zoom and it is through remote control. So again, if the student is on a Chromebook, they won't be able to take the test. And if they're on their phone, it's difficult. If they're on the tablet, it's difficult. So the ideal situation is if they're on a desktop or a laptop. For EL civics, we had to transfer the skills that they were doing either in-person one-on-one, like interviews or role plays or on paper digitally because at the time, you know, I only had remote students. So I had to think, how can I assess my students for EL civics in a remote situation? And so a lot of it had to do with Google Slides and Google Forms. Those are the two ways that I did it. And so let me show you, I have the two links here. Let's see if they load. All right. So for example, I would be in a breakout room with a student and, you know, they would be all prepared. They knew that, you know, the test was coming. So if I can, let me get rid of my chat. All right. All right. Does anybody want to be a brave volunteer to unmute and maybe possibly start your video? Anybody? Anyone? Anyone? Lori, I love it. Thank you. All right. So we are going to start your test. Yeah. So I'm going to show you the picture. So what is the job and what does she do? Oh, OK. Would be nice if I shared my screen. That's always helpful. Just a minute. There you go. Can you see it now? Yes. Great. So what is this job and what does she do? She's a secretary. Mm hmm. And what does she do? She answers the phone. Perfect.  Either they got they got the answer right and they got two points or they didn't get the answer and they got zero points. So I would do number one and I'd say two and I'd circle two. So I did have a piece of paper for each student so that I could score them. But that's exactly how I would do it. We would be in a breakout room and then she would look at the picture, give me the answer and we would move on. So we'll just do one more. So what is the job and what does he do? He's a janitor and he cleans the classrooms. That's right. OK, so, you know, I so I'm market, we just go bop, bop, bop, bop, bop when we go through it. And then I score and then, you know, we're done. So whatever the tasks are, this is how I conducted it with my students. So that's one example. And I'm going to show you the other one because I'm hoping. Yes. OK, so this one is on a Google form and before each student takes their test, we had to make sure that they understood the testing agreement. So if so for every student, they had to acknowledge that their photo ID was of them, like, you know, because I'm not your teacher, so I had to check and make sure there are no books or papers. There's no one helping me and they will do the test by themselves. So then the student says, yes, I understand. They acknowledged the student agreement form. Me, as an assessor, I type my name here. I acknowledge that they acknowledge. Basically, I'm I'm saying that I as the proctor, they have understood that they will not cheat on this test. OK, now this is not from CASIS, but I was talking with Kathleen because Kathleen is our new eosivics coordinator and I told her that I thought it would be a good idea for us to do this just to keep it secure and authentic above and beyond even what CASIS wants, because I just think that it's good to have the students recognize that this is a test and that they can't cheat on it and it's important. So we developed this ourselves and I think that maybe at some point, CASIS is going to understand that that probably should be part of it as well. They go through. So this is where we can do remote control. So let me see if I can give you a blur. Yes, I can. All right. So Lori, you have remote control. So you use your computer just as if you were.  And I'm the only teacher. All right. And again, so the students would do exactly what Lori is doing right now. They would fill out this information while I'm watching her. And you can just put 999 or whatever you want some. Yeah. Well, not that one. Oh, that's all right. That's OK. And next, perfect. OK, so look at the picture. And then what is the internet use? So I'm not touching the screen. She's doing it all on her own. She's at, you know, she's and I do see a person. She does have a virtual background on, but I do see a person in that. So so we would like, you know, mention that she shouldn't have anybody in the room with her while she's taking the test. But we understand. Yeah. Perfect. And so then this is exactly what our tests look like. Yeah. So which co-op is this? This one is forty. Forty eight seven, forty eight point one. Forty eight point one. I'm writing that down. And Laura, I'm just going to I'm sorry, I'm going to stop you real quick. I'm going to stop the chair. Let me hear her. Oops. But but yeah, I mean, if you so you can see, let me share my screen again. I mean, that's basically how I did my students with the remote control. The nice thing about this one was that with you, for those of you who use Google forms, it grades it for you as long as I put the grade in there. And I put in, you know, the the caveats of the spelling part of it, it would pretty much grade it. Otherwise, I go back and I just grade it myself because, you know, if they use capitals, you had to have to put in every single variation of what they could type and still be right in there. So I just kind of left it blank. And then I went back in there just and graded it myself. But everybody had a record of it and let me. And then you would have the Google form. You would have the Google form that had the proof and then it would have all their answers and things like that. So that's how I use remote control to do ill civics assessments. And same thing with the CASA's test. I mean, it's the same concept where you give remote control and then the students would do the test on my computer. So they never have access to the test or the ill civics on their own. They only have access access through my computer. This is one of the this is the health one. Yeah, health, I think it was twenty seven point one, maybe. And one of the questions was, you know, to look at a prescription bottle and they had to answer questions about it. Same thing. So they had their student agreement form and then they went through all the different questions for the assessment. The thing with Google forms that you have to remember that Kathleen and I have been going back and forth with because we're trying to figure this out. But so far we can't is that if the rubric is a two one zero concept, you can't really use Google forms for the grading part of that because, you know, there's no way to determine what is a two and what is a one and one is zero. So that's why I kind of use the paper form and I had a two one zero and I just circled it myself. So that's kind of one of the the bummer parts about using the Google forms. Does anybody have a question? Let me see. Melinda, are we good with questions or do you have a question, Lisa? Yeah, Kathleen, wasn't wasn't there a question about whether or not it can be because I can't really see the the choices for your medicine bar. Isn't it they can't be a multiple choice? Only if. OK, so if you have to read the standards for the the the tasks, if it is label, if it's like label, the label, the picture, you can't give them multiple choices. What if it's identify? Yes, then you can. OK. Yeah. OK, so yeah, there would be choices. OK, if it said label it, they would have to come up with the word on their so it would be a feeling. Yeah, just like that. Yeah, just like just like the Laurie did. Yeah. Yep, exactly. How the LOL and things like that. Yeah, that's a great question. So the sit in the chat, if you could do me a favor, can you tell me whether your agency does the CIT, the cost of CIT? Thanks, Melinda. If you could just say yes or no in the chat. Oh, good. I'm so glad to see many of you do or so far, too, so if your agency does the CIT or if maybe you don't even know if you they if you don't, you might not. If you don't know what the CIT is, you you may your agency might do it. You don't even know that's calling that. I think what you're thinking of is the government in history, the nine seventy five nine sixty five nine sixty five. The CIT is an oral interview and it prepares students for the actual USCIS citizenship interview and it's about twenty eight questions or so. And the first third is personal information. The second third is about more about their kind of more their personal life. And then the third part is actually like questions regarding citizenship. All right. So some of you, a lot of you were yes and some of you were no. So I would highly encourage you if you are one of the powers of B at your agency or you have some clout, I would encourage your agencies to start doing the CIT. I find that it's one of the easiest ways to gain a pay point. But I mean, there is some work to it that the students have to prepare for it, obviously, but the way you can sell it to your students, because even if your students say I'm already a citizen or I don't, you know, I'm never going to be a citizen. Why do I have to learn this? It's a speaking test. And if you know, if you give any of your students a needs assessment, one of the one thing that they usually always say is that they want more speaking practice. So what a better way to do it than to give them a test if they have to prepare for a test or they actually have to speak in order to, you know, pass the test. And then you get an extra pay point. It doesn't count towards your ill civics. It's above and beyond ill civics. So you get your cost of reading gains, you get up to six ill civics, three for two, thirty one, three for two, forty three. And then and then you get the sit, which is the oral interview. And then you get government in history, which is a listening test, which is another good one to do for your students. That's a seller, because again, it's it has to do with government in history, but it's a listening test, which is another thing students always want to practice more of. So you can get extra pay points for money. You know, to help your agency with these two simple tests.  So that's going to hurt us financially in a couple of years. So in order, you know, so to have both of these kind of in our pocket really helps us financially. So again, I would encourage anybody to look into doing the CIT or the government in history. The CIT, you have the proctor has to go through training and I'm not I'm not going to lie to you. It's kind of tedious. The first time you do it, it takes about six hours because they want everybody to be very standardized in the way that they score. And then you have to recertify every year and it takes about two hours. So it's not really an easy process to be a proctor, but it is worth it. If you can get enough of your students to do it and get the pay point for it, then then, yeah, it's it's worth it. What I've been doing with our agency is I go into the teacher tells me my students are ready for their sits. And I say, OK, I join her his or her zoom room. And then the teacher puts myself and the student in a breakout room. And then we do the oral interview one on one. And then after they're done, they leave the room. They they leave the meeting. They don't they don't go back to class. It's like they're done for the the the night or the day. And so again, it all it is as a speaking test and it's just one on one. So if they've if they've prepared, it goes by very quickly, probably. Ten minutes, maybe eight to ten minutes. If they are not so prepared, if it takes them quite a lot, I mean, it could take up to about 15 minutes. So really kind of depends on how many students you're doing and how fast you need to get those done. But it can be, you know, it can be very useful. And a lot of them really take it seriously because they, you know, they know it's a speaking test. And if I don't understand them, then I'm not, you know, then that affects them. So, yeah, it's a really, really good way for you to gain an extra pay point. All right. So I'm going to go over here. Does anybody have any questions? What are you also levels to? Oh, OK, good question. So for the CIT, the CIT, it's called the citizen interview test. Um, usually it's about. I would say beginning high and above. I think it says on like it's recommended from classes like intermediate low, but we've had some teachers who have gone through and, you know, practiced with their students. And so we have some students that have done it in beginning high. Because again, the first part of it is is basically personal information. And then the second part is more about like, how did you learn English?  You know, why? Or what do you miss about your country? You know, so there are a little bit more involved questions.  What does it mean to vote? So they have to give the definition of what is a vote? What is the Constitution? You know, what does it mean to bear arms? Things like that. So I mean, it is kind of higher level thinking. But if a student just practiced, you know, the questions, they could, you know, they couldn't get it. And then the listening test, I think we have everyone from beginning low, beginning low, beginning low, beginning high and up to the listening test. Because I think they only need to get 18 to pass. And I out of 30, I think it's a listening test, it's a multiple choice. So they don't get to see the question, they listen to the question, but they see the answers and then they get to choose the answer. And Costa's just developed the they're doing a pilot right now with the the 976 about 975 about using flash drives and stuff for remote testing on that. Anybody else have any questions or suggestions? Any any other suggestions about how you are assessing your students and whether you've been successful or if you've had some challenges? That would be helpful. A couple of things I did want to mention while I'm kind of waiting for people is going through some of the things that that I've learned from doing all these different assessments is again, you know, being mindful of the devices that your students are using and also. Oh, testing. OK, so not only being mindful, but if you can test your tests on different devices. So if you made a Google form, do the Google form test on your phone, log into the Google form on your phone and take the test. You will get a very clear idea of what your students are going through. So whether it be, you know, what does the question look like? How big is it? Things like that. Also on the I on your iPad, if you have an iPad or a tablet because for a long, long time, even something as simple as the date, I have a form that my students fill in every day. It's a health like a how are you doing type thing every morning.  And I kept saying, oh, all you have to do is click on the select the calendar picture and just choose the date today. Well, I didn't realize on iPads that does that little calendar thing doesn't show up because I didn't do my form on the iPad. I was just assuming it was all the same and it's not. So, yeah, I sure it's right here on the screen. Oh, can you see my screen? So, Lori, if you can see it, it's on the bottom. It's a lisa.takiuchi at gmail.com. OK, yes, you can also do a takiyuchi at otan.us. Sorry, Melinda's trying to break me into that. She's trying to break me into the habit of using my otanic. And but yeah, so being mindful of the devices that your students are using and if, you know, if you are giving them an assessment, then. Check it out on different as many as you can, even if you have to borrow somebody else's iPad or borrow somebody's iPhone or somebody's, you know, thing, somebody, something to take your assessment online. And then one of the last things I was going to mention also is now that I have students in class, I made the paper version for them and I just handed it out to them and they did it the old fashioned way with their paper and pencil and then they just, you know, gave it gave it back to me and I graded it, but I didn't hand it back to them. I kept the test and just gave them their scores. So that's the other thing, too. I. Alisa, are you? Yes, are you doing simultaneous instruction? I am. And yeah, what's one of your top pointers on that that you've learned so far? So we were very fortunate in that our director allowed us to come to school a week before our students came back so we can kind of take an inventory of our, you know, because we haven't been to our classrooms in a year. And so I had to kind of take an inventory of my classroom and how did I want to set it up? And before I even came back to my classroom, I had a vision in my head about what I wanted it to look like. So for me, the biggest thing was to my setup. So, you know, I can't really show it right now, but OK, so you're on my laptop. My school laptop is in front of me. I have a plexi glass that's on my table. And then my students are, you know, after that. And then I have I have a second monitor off to the side. And so then I'm able to have you zoom students on my computer and then whatever I'm presenting on the external. And then because our school, we also have like smartboards. We have electronic whiteboards that I'm also able to project to the to the big whiteboard so that my in class students can see them and my zoom students can see it. So, I mean, you know, it was it was kind of a lot of thought. There was a lot of thought process into thought process into it. And it's not for everybody. So a lot of our teachers still only have just their laptop, just one monitor and then their whiteboard. And that works for them. For me, it's a little difficult because then I have like my zoom and my slides and I lose the zoom students. I can't see them to have just one monitor. Really, it doesn't work for me. So I actually purposefully made it to because that's what I had when I did at home, when I was at home, I had two monitors the whole time. So my second monitor and my projector mirror each other. And my second monitor to my laptop extends. So they are not the same, but then my whiteboard and my external monitor are the same. They mirror each other. So it really just depends on your level of comfort with tech. Do you feel comfortable using two different monitors? Or maybe you have a desktop and a laptop, you know, you have two separate computers. Some teachers do that also. So it really kind of depends on your level of comfort. But so for class, we have a plexiglass. And then I and then we have so we have two levels of protection. So then we have my student. Our school gave us these face shields also. But the ones that we had were the ones with the headband. And it was too hard for me. So my student actually my student actually gave me one that has the glasses. And so that's what I use for when my students. So we always have the plexiglass and then I have the I'm sorry, this thing just came off the glasses. And then if I walk away. Because I have in class students coming and I have to check their temperature and they have to do a health QR code health screen. I have to step away from the plexiglass. So I'll have my my face mask and my mask and my my shield. So this is what it looks like for so in during my class. This is what it looks like. So this is what the students my in class students see me like this. And then my Zoom students see me like this. And then if I have to walk away from the plexiglass, then I'll have that face shield and then I'll have my mask. And then I can go and take their temperature and get them their their health screening. And they do that every day that they come. So that's those are the two things. And then I can't switch my camera around. We have it so that the students only sit at their table, only them. That like they don't they don't move tables or anything. So they choose a table that they want to sit at. It's one chair per table. And then I we have their books and everything on the table. So nobody so they marked they marked their own tables. So nobody else sits at that table. So they know not to sit at that table. So, you know, those are just kind of all these things. So how do you do like a conversation with the students? I mean, you're not going to be getting into small. OK, you're going to have a small group over here and a small group over here. Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So, you know, when we were all online, right, it was breakout rooms. But now what I do is the students that are on Zoom go into breakout rooms. And then the students that are in class, they they're kind of situated enough where they're somewhat close. I mean, they're six feet apart still our tables are six feet apart. So I can have them sort of like kind of triangulate and talk with each other at a distance and so I could have two groups of three. And so it just happened to be that that's where they chose to sit. Or I could do two and two and two. Yeah, so it does work. I wish I don't know. I might have a picture of, you know, what the classroom, you know, how the classroom is situated. But the. Yeah, it hasn't been as difficult as I thought it would be. Yeah, I mean, I'm pleasantly surprised. Some teachers. Um, I think we're getting used to it because it's been about a month. It's been about five weeks or so. I think we're getting used to it. But yeah, I mean, I'm happy with it. I like my situation. We are very lucky in that. I don't know, Kathleen, am I allowed to tell them about Al? Is that a thing? Al. Oh, why not? So, yeah, I it's not set in stone yet, but our director informed us last week that we will be getting owls. I don't know if anybody if it doesn't anybody know what an owl is. An owl is a 360 camera that is placed in, you know, in the room so that when when we're allowed to get rid of our plexiglasses and stuff and I'm able to walk around the room, the owl will follow me around the room. So I'm able to walk or right on the whiteboard. So right now I'm kind of limited to this area of the whiteboard to right on I'm mostly everything I project on the white, the electronic whiteboard. But with the owls now I'll be able to walk around the classroom and right and the owl will follow me so that the in class students can watch me. And then the zoom students, I don't have to be stuck behind a computer, you know, like this. I can actually walk around freely and the owl will follow me. The camera will follow me and it can follow the sound if there's two people talking. Yeah, so they'll split the screen. So if there's a conversation going, then on the like the zoom, it will take it. It will split the screen to show two different people or however many people are having a conversation. So it's pretty high tech and pretty neat. So we'll see. That's that's what she had told us. Rosie is asking me if I if I'm sharing, am I sharing the screen? Do you guys see my am I still sharing the screen? I don't know. Yes, thank you. Do you see? Oh, you see. If there's anything else, I mean, we have seven minutes. If anybody else wants to see something, I could try to find it real fast. Or if you have a question or again, I mean, if you're if you're assessing or you're doing something, please share with us what you're doing.  Oh, interesting. Good question. So if you could in the chat, if you can tell us whether you're online only. Yeah, in class only or both. Oh, many people are still distance learning until until it's fall. Yeah, so a lot of people, a lot of agencies decided to wait until the until the next school year. Are you worried? Are you guys stressing out? I told Oten, I think that in August, we're going to have a lot of demand for how to help teachers set up their classrooms. I think that's going to be the big push for August. Yeah, Kathleen looks like we're the only ones that are in class. Interesting. Well, the colleges are still online online. Yeah, yes. Please, everybody, contact Marjorie for your AV needs. I'm sure I'm sure she will be doing one of her troubleshooting workshops. I it's so hard to know because we don't know a lot of agencies don't know still what their fall will look like, you know, because we don't know. I mean, who knows who knows if the state standards will change or what not? Yeah, so it's hard to plan for the future when you don't know what the future is. And Alisa, this is Melinda. I'm just going to piggyback on what you just said. So, folks, OTAN does or did face to face trainings where we would come to your site and we would, you know, all get in a room and we would do stuff, right? We would learn about something, even troubleshooting, how to troubleshoot projectors or computers, laptops, what have you. We can still do that. OTAN is learning how to do distance learning as well.  Like, OK, this is a coffee cup. Here's the little button on the coffee cup, right, that you push so that you can drink. So we're figuring that out. And if you think of a workshop that you don't see on the OTAN training side, send it our way. OK, we will do it. We do have some minimum requirements. We we ask that there's at least 10 I'm sorry, eight to 10 people in the meeting in the the zoom. But again, we've got a bunch of different stuff coming up. We've got some trainings that have been scheduled from May until the end of June. Elise is going to be doing a couple of more, not on this, but she'll be doing a couple of more as well as some of the other OTAN trainers. So OTAN is still in it with you. And if you have a need, if your site has a need like, man, I wish we knew how to do fill in the blank, contact us, please. Yeah. And again, because we don't know what's going to happen, you know, you might not know what's happening in your agency, but they could tell you, oh, we're all going to start using Moodle or we're all your platform. Now we'll be Google Classroom or you will start using Canvas. And if that's all brand new to you and your agency, you know, have us come and help you. You know, because that could be a big one right there. I think that's going to be one of the big ones, too, where agencies are going to start unifying the teachers in the agency to use a specific platform.