This is the Art of Charm Podcasts' show where we bring you actionable tips and strategies on how to better connect socially, boost your emotional intelligence, and navigate social behavior. I'm Johnny. And I'm AJ. This is a new month. Yeah. We are now focusing on a new theme. And for October, we decided that we're going to talk about networking.  How do I expand my network is a question we get all the time from our boot camp participants here in LA. Well, one of the things, certainly in music, it's the old saying, it's not how good you are. It's who you know. But that is across the board. For a lot of people, networking gets a bad rap, because we think about business cards and elevator pitches and going to events. And for a lot of us, especially if we're a little introverted or have a little social anxiety, it's overwhelming thinking about running the room, talking to hundreds of people and shaking hands and getting to know everyone. So we're going to dispel some myths around it, and we're going to share some stories about how we built the art of charm through networking. And I know in the past, we've talked a lot about social circles, but your network is a little different. So we're going to talk about the nuance there. But in building the art of charm, I don't think we could be where we are today without our network. I think that's a really important point to make for a lot of us, that we don't understand the missed opportunities when we are short-sighted, small-minded, and only think that hard work is going to be enough to get us there. Well, there is that. And also, everyone looks at us because we've been doing this for so long. And they're like, well, it's easy for you guys. You got the Rolodex. You know people. You've been doing this for so long. Well, there was a time when there was no Rolodex. There was no Rolodex. And we were just starting out. And getting even guests on the show was an difficult thing. I personally even remember reaching out to publicists and PR people to see if I could get people to come on the podcast early in our history. And for the publicists, they're like, what? A pod? What? Yeah, get out of here, kid. Quit bothering us. And don't call us anymore. But now, lots of people, podcasts are the rage. You can even say that they're still growing and it's the new thing. And we get inundated with people who want to come on the show now. But it wasn't like that in the early days. And some of our biggest episodes ever have come through our network. They haven't come from a cold email. They haven't come from a cold phone call or chasing a publicist or a PR. They've actually come from people in our network saying, hey, you should have this person on or, hey, I know this person who knows this person. So the value of your network, a lot of us don't realize until we really need it when we're desperate for it, when we need that connection, when we need that opportunity. And this is something we've talked about in the past on the show, this idea of developing social capital, developing yourself as a good listener, as someone who gives value, who's supportive of the people around him. And that is how you foster social capital, which we can use to build our network. And that social capital goes a long way. And for me to see people who abuse it or who are unfamiliar with how it works, it can be quite cringy. You know, certainly when you see maybe a Facebook friend hit somebody up and they're like, hey, I'm going to be in New York next week. Can I can I sleep on your couch? You know, I got some things going on in your body. It's like, well, I don't really, you know, I didn't think about it. And the thing about it is the person who's asking, you know, they see it as, oh, this is my opportunity to put my hand out and get some help in network where the other person's like, where is the value in this for me? And, you know, one of the things that that is difficult when it comes to the scenes that people run in, it's always about what can the scene do for me and what can this person do for me and where is this person at in their ladder so I can use them to get a leg up? And that is the wrong way to be looking at it. And and I hate to use a tire trope at John F. Kennedy said it best. It's, you know, don't ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country. So don't look at your social circle about what you can get from it. Right. Look at your social circle and look at what you can contribute to it. And social capital is how you build your reputation. Yes, it's how you build your credibility. It's how you become someone of value that people want to introduce you to other people. They want to network with you. They want to host you. But unfortunately, a lot of us view networking as transactional. What can I get from that person? And if I don't see value that I can get from that person, well, they're not worth my time. They're not worth connecting with. They're not worth talking to. Well, let's break that down. The reason that people look at these things transactionally is they probably started out thinking that they're going to be giving agreeable, positive people. However, after putting themselves out there, after at least what they're thinking is contributing to the situation and then they don't see it returned, you start to become embittered. The issue with this is because they're looking at it from a transactional lens. I've given value in, where's my value back? But it just doesn't work in that manner. And if you've been listening to the show, you understand the idea of high value behaviors and actions comparatively too low value behaviors and actions. If you've listened to the show, you've also realized that in there is the and how we give value doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get value in the exact same way that you have given it. And there's many different ways to give value in and get value out. And you need to be be able to recognize when they're coming or you've missed it. Right. And when you've missed it, you can feel burned out. Yes. You can feel regretful. You can feel frustrated that, hey, this transaction isn't working for me. My checkbook is in balance here. Well, Adam Grant says it best that you need to be able to see some sort of return to fuel you when when you're giving all the time so that you can continue to fuel yourself to continue giving. And this is why you have to open your eyes to all the different ways that that you're able to give value. So you're able to see all the different ways you're able to receive value so you can continue fueling yourself. And, you know, I always use this example. If I've given you a contact and I'm waiting for you to give me a contact.  But you threw in a good word with a marketer that I'm looking for so that when I speak to them, there's a reputation there that has already been built. Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, we typically operate from the lens of the value that we give. Yeah. And some of us are focused on the contacts and getting as many contacts as possible and wanting to have a wide network. Some of us don't really value the contacts as much and would rather have the support to build the marketing funnel or to build the website. And unfortunately, when we look at how we get value back from others, if we're only looking through the lens of how we give it, we're going to miss out on a lot of that value and get frustrated. You know, the the other thing is think about some of the the higher value people who who really have it together and their lives are very busy and they're they're so busy that they have somebody handling that schedule. So, you know, that the value that giving back, you mentioned one of support or or even if you get time with somebody whose time is that much more precious when you're when you have nothing going on, you have time all day to meet up with people. So that there's the value that is there is not as important or is worth as much to the person who doesn't have that time, which all of a sudden that time becomes a very precious thing. And it's different for everybody. And this is why if you haven't listened to the value episodes, I would suggest you go back and there's two and you listen to those so that some of these ideas or a little bit are clear to how our represent our presentation. Yeah. And when we're talking about value, we're talking about giving someone attention, approval and acceptance. Yes. The three A's. That's that's what we're talking about. So we give people our attention by being empathetic listeners, by paying attention to what they're posting on social media. That's listening. They're LinkedIn. That's listening, seeing what they're posting. They're shouting out into the world. Hey, I want you to check this out. That's one of the ways we can give value, giving likes on Facebook, commenting as much as we talk about going offline and actually calling that person, meeting up with them in person, giving them your full attention. That's one way to give value. And when we're starting out in our career, when we're just getting our feet wet, when we're trying to get excited about building something that typically is the only way that we have to give value. And it's an important one in this attention economy. Well, and to go along with that, those who are listening to the show, I'm sure a lot of people are saying to themselves, well, I'm a high value person or I'm sure I have plenty of value to give. And the thing about value and being a high value person is that you have to cultivate it. It's not a switch that you just flip. It's something that you have cultivated within yourself that handles mindsets and your perspectives on things so that you're able to give value out in the world and be comfortable without getting it in return. In a way, yeah, and aware when it comes in. So you're appreciative of it. The second is that exact thing, appreciation, approval. How can we allow that person to feel good, accept them, help them feel as if what they're talking about on social media is the most important thing is something of value. So appreciation is celebrating the people in our lives. And we can do that in a lot of ways. One of the ways we can give appreciation is actually by telling them straight up. I know we talk about this in boot camp all the time. Being more appreciative of the people around you who are investing time and energy in you is a great way to give value. And then the third and final way we talk about is acceptance. And that's really welcoming into your network. One of the ways we do that is by exchanging contacts. Hey, meet this person. Hey, I got a referral for you. Hey, I think this person can really help you. That's another way that we give value and develop out our social capital. Now, why are we talking about all of this? I think for months now, we've been talking about social circles and conversation and building out our friend group. And a lot of times we don't think about our network. Your network is slightly different than your social circle. Yes, your social circle is your confidence. You're spending a lot of time together. You're really invested in one another. Science says your network is actually weaker ties. So it's people who, based on your credibility, based on your reputation, are in your network. They know people that you know. And if you could potentially need something, if you want to exchange some information, they are what is considered in your network. So sociologists look at your circle of friends that most of us have as people that live nearby. They have same interests and generally, they have the same life experiences because we probably met them through a life experience.  Your network, you want to be more spread out. Your network, you want to be diverse from multiple disciplines, multiple backgrounds. You probably won't have the same shared life experiences. And having that unique perspective added in your network. So you have people who could be your mentor, people who could be your mentee. That's your network, which is, of course, slightly different than the social circle that we've talked about. And most people's social circles are fairly small. It's tough to invest that much time and energy in a lot of people. But your network is something that you can easily manage through social media, through LinkedIn, through Facebook. Simple check-ins can allow you to keep that network, keep in touch with people and look for opportunities to give them value. You know, it's funny, because we've been known to rail on social media and technology here at The Art of Charm. And I always, I laugh about it because it's an easy target. And it deserves to be the whipping boy for a while as well. However, when used properly, social media is a wonderful tool to manage your networks. Yeah. And again, network versus social circle, right? Social circle, spending a bunch of time farting around on Facebook or LinkedIn is probably not a good use of your time. But a few minutes a day, managing your network, reaching out to people based on what they're posting on is a way to cultivate that social capital so that when you do need a couch to sleep on, you do need a reference or you are looking for a job, you're not putting the other person out because they've felt supported with you for years. That's how we invest in our network. And I know myself in college, I didn't really think about a network. It wasn't on my mind. It was how do I get my social circle in order? How do I find the right person to date? How do I find the right people to go hang out with? And of course, in my social circle, well, we all went to the same university, we all work in the same lab, we all have very similar life experiences. Now I look back and I think about all the missed opportunities for networking, going to events, going to meet people outside of my immediate social circle is how you start to cultivate that network. And one of the myths that we're gonna be dispelling and certainly is about the whole idea of running around the room and trying to collect as many cards and the thing that you have to keep in mind in building your network is though you can certainly do things to speed up the process, nature in and itself and familiarity and getting comfortable people also go a long way. And so you have to have patience and building it and putting it together because certainly not everyone you meet is good for your network or your social circle. And of course, we've talked about that, we talked about in the program of what behaviors of high value characters look like so that you can welcome into your network because if you bring in somebody of low value who is looking to take, we understand those toxic behaviors, how they spread and how one person can wreak havoc upon a network and a social circle to a point where not only does it collapse on itself, no one from that feels good about trusting anyone ever again and you have to be aware of this.  Okay, so why did you bring them in? What did you see from these people that allowed you to know that you're bringing in good character people that will help build up this network and social circle rather than tear it down? And a lot of times people looking at me are going, well, I really hadn't done anything. Well, we haven't screened it. So you don't even know what you have just because they're familiar and the propiquity is in place, doesn't give them the right to enter it. Right, and I think, unfortunately, a lot of us again are trying to play the numbers game and just get as wide and as big of a network as possible and not realizing that when you're not selective in who you let into your network and you do them a solid, you give them some social capital, you make an introduction, you put your name on the line for them and it doesn't work. Yeah. There is a reputational hit. And unfortunately there are, as Adam Grant would say, there are more takers than there are givers. Yes. And being able to spot them, look at those low value behaviors, allow you to prune the network so that the network is full of people that are supportive that you are comfortable supporting. And the other thing we wanna talk about here when we think about network is just how much of the world works through your network. Most of us don't realize that there are so many things happening through the network because we haven't really experienced them. And for me, as I said, in college, I hadn't experienced my network really paying off until I applied to graduate school. And my boss, when I just got out of college in the lab, put his name on the line for me. He was in my network. And all of a sudden I got into the University of Michigan PhD program because he put his neck out. That was the first time. And my dad didn't have a big network growing up. It wasn't really even something that we thought about. We thought more about family and social circle. And that was when I started to realize, wow, okay, just by someone putting in a good word, they can look past some grades. They can look past test score. They can look past a lot of things through that weak tie. I'm not being invited to my bosses' dinners for Christmas or holidays, but he knew me well enough to say, hey, this is someone that you should accept into graduate school. And not only that, there is now an obligation on your end to do your best to allow your boss to look good because you're gonna want him down the road to continue to have his name be worth something so that other people can ride that same train that you did. And that's why we wanna focus on building your social capital, not taking social capital, right? Building on that social capital would be over-delivering in graduate school, impressing them so that my boss, he earns a reputational bump through that as someone who's referring and recommending great people. And another big opportunity for the show, again, through network. At a party, meet some people, get introduced to someone who does PR at SiriusXM, all of a sudden we're being invited on SiriusXM radio show that turns into our own SiriusXM radio show. Back in the day. That, again, wouldn't have happened if all we were doing was focusing on hanging out with our friends, hanging out with our social circle. So network is important to at least spend some time working to build earlier the better. And I think a lot of us, again, try to build the network too late. We get ourselves in a situation where our friends can't find us the job, we don't have any options and we're like, shoot, I wish I had a network. Now I better start reaching out to people and start building a network.  And if you haven't spent much time contributing to it, it's going to be difficult, right? But if you are known as somebody who builds that network up, who contributes to it, who always support, you better believe that those people are gonna go to bat for you. Absolutely. And for us, all of these little bits of going out, putting ourselves out there, going to events, meeting people, it came down to first impression, having a great first impression. And one of the questions that I ask a lot of people who sign up for the bootcamp is, what do you think your first impression is? And a lot of us don't even realize or think about what our first impression is. No. We don't realize just how important it is. When we're creating weak ties in a network, your first impression goes a long way to that person feeling comfortable. It certainly does.  Well, there's a lot there about taking the time to learn about yourself. And obviously, if you're listening to the show, we know that you guys, or at least, are interested in learning. The implementation is much more difficult and perhaps there is a wall there. But if you're listening to the show, I'm going to guess that there is an urgency and a want to learn about yourself so that you're able to contribute and do better out in the world. And that first impression, not only can it be developed, if you've never taken the time to think about it or develop it, then it could use some work, but also there's the part of having to be honest with yourself to take the feedback when you ask for it. Right. Improving in this area is one of the easiest ways to start to grow your network. Because that first impression doesn't only impact the person you met. They think about that in connecting you with people. So that first impression actually has exponential potential or exponential damage if it's not handled properly. Well, let's look at it this way. Let's just say that you were a bit introverted and because of that, you have some natural anxiety of meeting new people and that's a difficult thing. I think all of us can understand that and knows how that works. Hell, I even think a lot of introverted people have to deal with that at times too. You don't know every party or event or social gathering that you go to. So there's always an initial fear of walking into the unknown. However, if that is not something that you normally do or you haven't been through the taking the efforts to get better at that, if you leave people leaving a conversation or introduction feeling a little bit weird like, wow, I don't wanna have to deal with that again, well, they're certainly not gonna recommend you for a job or a referral. Right, there's no opening of their network. There's no LinkedIn. There's no ability for you then to get in if your first impression is something that's leaving people wondering how what's this guy's or gal's deal. Yeah, and now let's say that you've done some work on yourself. You know how to make a good impression. You've went through some efforts to sharpen up everything and your conversation skills. So even though you may be walking into the unknown of a new social event, at least you've been around the block. You've had some, you've done some work on yourself. So now you're able to go in. You have a big smile. Your body language is open. People are engaging with you when you're able to speak to them. You catch a couple of emotional bids here or there.  You all share a laugh and let's just say that's where it is. But that happened through a friend.  He seemed rather cool. What's his deal? Right. Now the door is open. Oh, that's AJ. He's super rad. He's a great guy. You gotta spend some time with that guy, right? And now these doors are open and why are these doors open? Because of how you allow this person to feel in a situation that everyone knows and it's just slightly a bit awkward. Let's make no bones about it. Meeting people for the very first time comes with a bit of tension and pressure because you're both walking into the unknown. You either are going to have the skills to manage that tension and pressure and mitigate it and not allow it to be so heavy or you're going to bring in the tension and pressure and it's just gonna continue to add up till one or both you need to leave that situation. And guess what?  So if that is my first impression of meeting AJ, well, I see that guy again like, oh, I'm not heading that way. That guy's a little bit weird. Right, and then if I hit you up asking for something weeks later, you're not gonna open your network up. You're not gonna look at that as an opportunity to add some social capital. So understanding that first impression goes a long way and why are we going on and on about network because these weak ties matter. And you know we love science here. In the 1960s, Mark Granavetter, back then he was a PhD student at Harvard, set out to look at just this. And in his study, he has 282 men, how they found their current job and he tracked how they heard about the physician, who asked them for referrals, how they got the interview and just in general, who is helping them land the job. In his paper, The Strength of Weak Ties, published in 1973, he found that when it came to finding a job, a person's friends were eager to help and strangers were not. Well, duh, no surprise there. But the surprise was that casual acquaintances called weak ties were also very likely to offer a helping hand. And exactly because they were not a close connection, they knew of a lot of job openings that the survey participants would have otherwise never heard of. So having a heterogeneous network of people, a diverse group that can offer new opportunities, but let's talk about the other side of this, Johnny, new perspectives. Yes. I know for a lot of us when we see a problem, we have our angle at it, our low resolution view and our friends tend to have the same view. That's why we get along. We have the same temperament. We enjoy the same things, but guess what? That problem could be pretty tough to handle if all you have is one or three or four very similar perspectives. What happens when we have a large diverse network? Well, with a large diverse network, you have different perspectives because people have had different experiences than you have. They've learned from different places and they're bringing all that to the table. And by looking at a problem from many different angles, now the low resolution becomes high resolution and you're able to find your way through that problem because you get more information. And the thing about it also is if you're looking at it from your own perspective, not only are you getting one angle low resolution view of it, it is low resolution because it is distorted by your own emotions because it is your problem. And so you're stuck dealing with it and with everything that comes with it because it is a problem, like frustration, right? And when other people are able now to look at it, they're not distorted with emotion. They have a different experience and a different perspective and it helps you put a better picture together. Yeah, for example, and I always harp on this because so many of us, when we think about building our network, we only think about the people ahead of us. I just want that super smart person in my network or I just want that influential person in my network. We don't often think about, we wanna build a network with people who are just starting, who are at our level and who are ahead of us because each of those perspectives is important. And we have a YouTube channel, we're trying to grow it. The Art of Charm TV, you can check it out, you can watch us on the podcast here. And in trying to grow this YouTube channel, I've had a few different perspectives. I've had my own frustrations with trying to get views, trying to get subscribers, talk to some friends who actually have more successful channels. They include me in on something that's more important, watch time, right? Not knowing these things, I would have never realized that that's important, right? Now looking at the problem from my viewpoint of, I want more views, how can I get more views, right? That seems to be important. People who are ahead of us know, well, watch time is what matters, not the number of views as much as we'd like it to think. Then I started talking to a buddy who just started his YouTube channel. And he was telling me all these little things that he's done to get some action moving. And that perspective is also just as helpful. A lot of times when we only focus on the perspectives of the people who are ahead of us, we miss out on the opportunities for the people who are just starting out. They're hungry, they're solving problems, they're trying to come at it from a different angle, they're hacking things together. And all three of those perspectives are very helpful to your success. It's not just about finding the mentor, right? And understanding that a lot of times when we look past the people who are just starting out, guess what? Sometimes they're gonna zip past you. Sometimes they're gonna open new doors that you didn't know were imaginable.  Oh, he's not in the same field as me. He's not in the same industry. Why do I need to get to know him? We miss out on these opportunities. Well, like anything, once you put yourself in a mode to chase, things run away. And if things are running away, then they're gonna be difficult for you to capture. However, while you're chasing these other people, these other folks are working on the problem. They're growing their thing. They're concentrating on what they're doing. And guess what? Because they've done that, the people you're chasing notice the people who are working on their thing. And so they're getting that mentorship. They're getting that time that you are so desperately looking for that you could have had if you had been working on your own thing rather than chasing these people around. And we get the letters. We get hit up about coming on this show all the time. We see the people who are chasing us and the harder they chase, the more annoying it is. And it's like, listen, I would love to do some of these people a favor, but you get to a point where you only have so much time and so much efforts to be able to give out. And it's like, I know personally, I've said to myself, I just wish this person would just chill for a bit and work on what they're doing and build something that brings some value in for me to help them. And also, how many times have we been in a situation where people have said, listen, you guys are just not ready for us yet. But if you keep plugging away and come back and see me when you get some things moving in a year or whatnot, and then let's have another talk. How many folks in our network have passed us up or let us know that only to come back and fold once we got our acting gear and we're able to start- Months, years, later, right? And that's the thing. If you don't take the long game perspective of this, if you don't look at this as something that you're building your entire lifetime and something that will add value at some future date that you're not even thinking about, then it's that short-sighted viewpoint that actually makes you a taker. It doesn't allow you to build the social capital necessary to have that network. And these diverse perspectives are incredibly important. One of our previous guests, David Henzel, good buddy of mine mentored us. And he started a software as a service company, hosting and CDN essentially. And we were having some talks about some difficulties I was having with The Art of Charm and getting the business on track with some lead generation. And he said, have you ever thought about Live Chat? And I was like, yeah, we played with it, but it didn't really work for us. And he's like, no, I think you should really look at Live Chat on your website so that people who are on the pages that are the most valuable to you, you start interacting with. And I was like, ah, that probably just works for you. He's like, why don't you try it? What can it hurt? So went back, installed Live Chat, got some things going. That one thing paid off in spades over the history of this company.  Oh, you're not a coach, get out of my network. Oh, are you a multimillionaire? No, you're not, get out of my network. I'm looking for diverse perspectives when I'm building my network because I know the value they add to me, not only when I'm having problems, but when I'm trying to grow things, when I'm getting excited about things as well. And we also want to wrap this with some myths. Plus some misconceptions. Now let's take a look at three common misconceptions that many people have about networking. The first we've touched on a little bit is this whole idea of keeping score, right? This balancing my checkbook, I need to make sure I get something out of my network or he doesn't need to stay in my network. He's of no value to me. It's not about keeping score. And if you are in the mindset of keeping score, you have switched to a transactional mindset.  When your first option should be contribute, it should be to give. And I know when people hear this, they're like, well, I don't want to get taken advantage of. I understand that. However, it is your social circle that you have built. So if you're getting taken advantage of, that's not on the other people. That is on the people that you have brought in. Yeah, time is our most valuable resource. We may not realize it, especially our younger listeners, but it is your most valuable resource. And if you are spending time with people who are toxic, who are low value, who are transactional, who are looking very short-sighted at things, it is gonna burn you out. It is gonna frustrate you. It is gonna exhaust you. It is. And anyone who, you know, when it comes to building anything and certainly in entrepreneurship, that transactional minds, the thing about entrepreneurship, I don't think everyone really, truly understands the epic roller coaster ride that it is. And us, even in 13 years, we still deal with the roller coaster. And there is nothing worse than waking up in the morning and being burnt out. Because in and building anything, if that takes your inspiration and your desire to go out and fight, well, then what's left? Because that's what entrepreneurship is. It's about seeing an idea through. And I think we're, even when it comes to your career, you're building your career. Of course. I think we're now in an age where we know the likelihood of us staying at one company, retiring from that company and getting a pension, is falling through the floor. The odds are you're gonna work at multiple companies, you're gonna find that you're moving and your career is what you're building. Right. As an entrepreneur, the company is what we're building. But when you are building, you want fuel. You don't want people who are tearing down what you're building. You need it. And there are gonna be highs and lows in your career. There are gonna be highs and lows in building a business. It's no different. The important part in all of this is if you are immediately keeping score and tracking whether or not this person has done you a favor or done something for you, you are then going to reinforce that and attract the wrong people. You are gonna find that you are only surrounded by people who are keeping score. That's the fallacy. When we think, oh, I'm keeping this balanced score and I'm keeping my network neutral, actually what's happening is you're self-selecting for other people who are keeping score and other people who are likely to take from you. And life is, it's not easy. And you need to be able to find that fuel and that inspiration wherever you can get it. And we have our executive VIP clients who you would think from, if you saw their paperwork of who they are right now, you're like, this guy's got no problems. These people have got money for days and a life that is more Instagrammable than Instagrammable lives. However, they wake up with their own issues and problems just like everybody else, regardless of how much money is in their bank account. And you hear these things, but until you're dealing with it, face to face and realize that this is true, that these people do have these problems and they look for those moments of inspiration and getting fired up and the fuel wherever they can get them because they're out building as well. And of course, for those of you who are younger, listening to this, that attention is what we're all craving. So whether it's a mentor situation, if you're looking up to someone, they are craving attention. They have their own struggles. So you can support them in ways that maybe right now your bank account doesn't show or your title doesn't show. So it's not to discourage the young ones who are trying to build the network. And those of us who are older, we're still networking. We went to breakfast this morning, networking. We're always looking at opportunities to meet people who are doing interesting things, who have a positive outlook and energy about them because they're a great fit for our network. You know, speaking with our meeting this morning and it was somebody that we've had on the podcast who would just happen to be in town and we were really excited to go meet this person face to face because we had a good interview. And it's funny because they wanted to talk to us because they're now breaking into the podcast space themselves, so they wanted some tips and things like that. You know, this person is definitely in a much better place and has been building businesses for longer than we have and there is a lot for us to be gained from that person. But for us, he asked us because he wanted to get our info on podcasting and we went to give to this relationship. Was there anything in it for us to go, oh, I hope we get back or this guy? I need this connection, I need this person, right? When you're going in, trying to build your network by keeping score. And now saying, oh, well, we had a great breakfast, gave all this podcast information. Now, where's mine? Where's my piece of the action here? That viewpoint actually stunts the growth of your network.  See, it is small things like that. So we had this breakfast meeting and me waking up this morning, I was excited. Why? There was something novel that was going on. This is inspiration. And in fact, there was nothing that we were getting out of this. It was for him, but it was the new doors of a new relationship that is that we get to open up and we get to contribute. So we're in the driver's seat here and that was a wonderful thing. But we are only able to see that we're in the driver's seat in this and having the opportunity to contribute because of the work that we have done on ourselves and the science that goes behind this that shows that. And I'm really excited for that relationship to continue to blossom. Absolutely. And understanding that trying to balance your network when you're building your network, when you're maintaining your network is not a good way to look at it. All of our network or the last 13 plus years that we've built together, we've had opportunities to give, give, give and then years later, we get something back. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. People are busy, people are focused on themselves but being generous, being generous with your attention, being generous with your appreciation and being more accepting of people and not being so judgmental are ways that we can stimulate and grow our own social capital. Now, I mentioned this other misconception a little bit earlier and this is a big one. It's not all about connecting with the top of the pyramid. Yeah. I find this time and time again to be one of the biggest mistakes that you can make is just pursuing the most successful people in the room to build your network on their backs. Well, it's easy to get in that sort of mindset because you see them. Why do you see them? Because they're getting the attention from everyone in the room.  Oh, well, they're this and they got that and they're doing this and because everyone seems to know them and they're getting all this attention, well, of course, we know that attention approval acceptance, flood your dopamine systems, that allows you to feel good. So of course you're like, well, I want some of that. So of course the natural inclination is to chase that. However, you want to be able to override those natural inclinations to go for a better route. And certainly it's still on the table that you're going to be interacting with that group. However, trying to find the value that you can bring to them will open some doors but a better route to this is to build your own and have them take notice and have them walk over to you. And I mean, we could talk music references all day. I know Johnny with rock and roll, whether it's rap, everyone talks about, they don't get excited about the people who found them when they were superstars. They're most connected to and give back to the people who knew them when they were small and they were just starting when they were nobody and open the door for them. So a lot of us with this idea of kiss up, kick down, look down on the people who are below us, who just started a podcast, who just started a coaching company, who just started their own business, who just graduated and is now starting their first engineering job and they're hitting you up on LinkedIn or they're coming up to you at the networking event or they're emailing you. All of us have this immediate urge of like, well, this person isn't successful, not give them my time. Guess what? All of those people that are hitting you up are go-getters, they're on their way to success and it is worth investing in them just as much as it's worth chasing the people who are way ahead of you. You mentioned a saying there that I really liked and I wanna make sure that people get it and it's from Adam Grant, I believe, which is the kiss up, kick down. Can you wanna explain that to the folks listening? Yeah, essentially it's this idea of shmoozing and trying to win over or brown nose, whatever you wanna call it, that people are the most successful in the room. Chasing after the most successful people and in the process kicking down. So looking at anyone who's beneath you is not worth your time, not worth being generous with, not worth giving value, has no social capital, therefore much like keeping score, I'm not gonna let them into my network. Right. And it's fascinating to me because over the last 13 years, we have welcomed into our network people who are just starting podcasts, people who are just starting companies and guess what? They're successful now. They have big shows. They have huge YouTube channels. And if we just looked at it as, oh, you're not successful enough for my time, they wouldn't be in our network. So that's a huge misconception of just chasing the most successful people in the room, realizing that if someone's reaching out to you for your time, if someone's doing it in a high value way and not transactionally are trying to abuse it, it's worth being generous. It's worth being generous with your time. And well, these things are difficult because as you get more successful, your time becomes more valuable and yet you're still looking to build out and bring in new worthwhile people to your network. So how do you do that? Well, we've given you the recipes for this, which is, and you can go back, it's throwing a dinner party and welcoming in some of these new leads and new people that you haven't had that opportunity to find that time, bring them in, let them schmooze with your friends, see how they operate. These opportunities are going to not only allow you to learn more about some of these new people that you've been thinking about bringing into your life, but you're also going to see how they operate in that scenario. Are they nice to the guests when they come in? Are they being open? Are they- Do they bring something? Yeah. We made sure to interact with everyone. Yeah. We have them value and attention. Are they on their phone? Are they being judgmental? Are they being rude? You know, these are all factors. The last misconception and probably one of the biggest, because whenever you say networking, it's such a loaded word, people cringe, oh God, business cards. Networking is not just about going to events. Yes. We have network, there are people in our networks that we've met in elevators, that we've met at coffee shops and in fact, one of our buddies, Derek, we met at a party late night in Hollywood. He happened to introduce us to a few people. He saw that we were strangers there, so he was very cordial introducing us. And we said, hey, we should grab lunch sometime. He's like, yeah, that sounds good. We followed up, grabbed some lunch.  He was a guest on the show. All of these opportunities, if you're simply looking at it, I have to go to this event to network. You're missing out on networking opportunities left and right. Yes, networking can happen anywhere and any place and it does. You mentioned the elevator. I have one for you. So for our audience who may be new or this is back in the day, but when we first moved to New York, we had got our place in a financial district. We're moving in and we had met a guy in the elevator and he just happened to work for Axe Body Spray of all the places. And you may be thinking, well, I don't understand how this got to do with the art of charm. So we chatted in the elevator. We didn't think anything of it.  And one day he had mentioned, he goes, hey, you guys have a show on Sirius. And we're like, yeah, he's like, what is this show? And we're like, oh, well, it's about social skills and dating and yeah, it's about social skills and dating. It's a lot of fun. And he's like, oh, we are trying to break into some new marketing that goes out for men and dating. Would you guys want to come by the advertising agency and talk to us about your show and perhaps we can find some angles to work? And this is just weird. So I don't even know if you could still find it on the internet, but it was this bizarre art of charm meets Axe Body Spray. But the point being, it was a great connection made. And when we were starting, we got a very healthy check from Axe for our time when we were building and we really needed it. And I remember not only holding that check, but thinking just how excited that things were working. And it's these small things like that is the fuel that fires you up to wake up and go at it again that next day. And that is a random chance elevator pitch. There you go. Literal elevator pitch and these opportunities happen to us all the time. It's changing your view and realizing that networking is not confined to events. It's not confined to putting that badge on and exchanging business cards. Networking is happening all around you. And the better suited you are at pitching yourself, talking about what you do and helping people and being generous with your time, giving value, you start to develop social capital. And social capital, as we've found, can be just as valuable as venture-backed capital because these connections, these opportunities lead to more opportunities and led to a ton of growth with the art of charm, especially since we were just bootstrapping this business. Yeah, and something else to think about with all the technology that we have, it is so prevalent in everybody's lives. And I know that it's maybe a little bit even more prevalent because we live in Los Angeles, but this technology is available for anybody, anywhere. And you don't know who's standing next to you, who's working on a record, who has a podcast, or who has got this blog, or who's a food critic. Just, and it's amazing because if you're not putting yourself out and saying hello and looking at networking as something that you can be doing on your daily routine, then you are missing out because it is these tiny, small things that can turn your whole day around so that you are waking up early on a Wednesday fired up for the day to begin because you have something new and unique to do. And of course, networking is not just confined online to LinkedIn. Networking is happening on all of these platforms. It's happening in Instagram DMs. So you need to expand your worldview on networking. You need to realize that it's not just about connecting with the top of the pyramid. And of course, it's not about keeping score. The more you develop social capital by giving attention, appreciation, acceptance to people at your meeting, strangers, the stronger those weak ties will become. And I want to end on that. You mentioned of these opportunities for you to contribute of attention, approval and acceptance on these platforms. People are plugging away so desperately to make their things happen as a musician. I know that my feet is full of them. And I have friends in all the arts. And I have, because I live in Los Angeles, there is something for me to do every night if I had the time. Point being, when you're looking, you're like, how do I get started and contributing to the what is going on around me? Start there.  Your buddy who has a dance recital, your friend who has the odd DJ set that's going on. You started a meetup group. All of these things showing up is how we start to develop social capital. If you're just getting started, you're thinking, AJ, I don't have the LinkedIn resume. I don't have this massive network. How can I provide value to others? Showing up, giving that attention is the easiest way to start developing social capital. Now, next week, we're going to talk about some specific networking techniques that you could start using right away. But until then, here's your challenge for the week. We'll build on this one next Monday.  The important part here is that you're specific.  If instead, a certain person pops into your head, then turn that into a more generalized avatar. What is that person's personality, interests, etc. like? Think of how you would describe that person to someone who doesn't know him or her.  We love hearing from you. You can send your thoughts and questions over to thearticharm.com slash questions or you can always email us questions at thearticharm. All right, could you do us in the entire articharm team a large favor? Could you go over to iTunes, give us some value, rate our podcast, give us a review. It would really mean the world to us and it helps other people like you find us. Now, if you've loved this show, you're loving the tools that we're getting on the podcast but you want to learn how to implement them and get real world experience, then check out our week long boot camp at thearticharm. We host you here in LA. Johnny and I work together to polish those social skills to help you build your social capital and grow your network. The Articharm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and engineered by Sam Jay and Bradley Denham at Cast Media Studios in sunny downtown Hollywood. Well, until next week, I'm Johnny. And I'm AJ, have a good one.


This is the VOA Special English Technology Report. Have you ever heard of Joseph Coney? Chances are you have at least heard about a video called Coney 2012. An American non-profit group posted it on YouTube in early March. The half-hour video quickly went viral, with tens of millions of views. The group Invisible Children created Coney 2012 to bring attention to Joseph Coney and his Lord's Resistance Army in Central Africa. In the video, Jason Russell from Invisible Children says, For 26 years, Coney has been kidnapping children into his rebel group the LRA, turning the girls into sex slaves and the boys into child soldiers. The group hopes the video will lead to his capture before the end of the year. Many people praise Coney 2012 for bringing attention to the issue. But others have criticized it and accused the creators of seeking financial gain. Critics say the way some of the information is presented may be misleading. Luisa Lombard is a graduate student in Duke University's Department of Cultural Anthropology. Ms. Lombard has studied conflict and policy in Africa. She says much of the information presented in the video is old. She says viewers get the impression that this is a northern Ugandan problem. In fact, she says, the LRA has not been operating in northern Uganda for years. They moved first to South Sudan, then on to the Democratic Republic of Congo and into the Central African Republic. Where they are now is debatable, Ms. Lombard says. The Ugandan government had a similar reaction to the video. In a statement, the government thanked the international community for its interest in Joseph Coney and the LRA. But it made clear that the group had not been active in Uganda since 2006. Uganda says the LRA is no longer a major threat and that the group now has less than 300 members. Paul Levinson is a professor of communication and media studies at Fordham University in New York. He says the important thing about the video is that it brings attention to Joseph Coney and the LRA. In his words, if it's slightly off in a fact or two, that's a very, very minor criticism. On March 15th, Jason Russell was hospitalized after San Diego police found him in his underwear following reports that he had been naked and screaming in the streets. The head of Invisible Children said the filmmaker was suffering from exhaustion, dehydration and malnutrition. For VOA Special English, I'm Alex Villareal. For more technology news, for people learning English, go to voaspecialenglish.com.


So hello to all my name is Ashley Burns, and I am honored to serve as DAB's Deputy National Communications Director On behalf of DAB and Camp Corral I'd like to welcome all of you to this special military and veterans children's caregivers seminar presented in conjunction with Camp Corral To talk about some of the things that military and veteran children caregivers want you to know about their role Their responsibility and their resiliency So as a combat veteran and a mother myself I can state unequivocally that the issues that are going to be discussed today with such long-term and wide-ranging ramifications can only be solved through collaboration and multi-approach Now this seminar will bring much needed awareness to the issues at hand with perspectives from experts in caregiver wellness Disabled veterans and perhaps most importantly from caregiver kids and military veterans themselves In partnership with DAB Camp Corral provides free one-of-a-kind summer camp experiences for children aged 8 to 15 Whose parents are wounded disabled or have fallen in military service The organization partners with accredited community entities that offer traditional camp experiences Through activities like horseback riding canoeing and rock climbing all those camp things that you do as a kid Giving these children a chance to connect with other kids who come from similar circumstances A feature that's unique to the camp Corral camp Corral experience is that a military family life counselor Is on-site to work with campers as they as they need it? To date camp Corral has served over 24,000 children from military families and through DAB's just be kids scholarship program More than 4500 children have wounded disabled or fallen veterans throughout the nation have attended camp Corral programs completely for free We're grateful for camp Corral's partnership with DAV the DAV throughout all the years that we've worked together DAV is deeply committed to continuing our work with camp Corral to generate awareness Strengthen policies in this area and to catalyze cross-sector collaboration in partnership with you and other organizations Because if we work together If we bring together all of our various skills and expertise Influence and advocacy will have a much greater impact in supporting caregivers and disabled veterans alike Too often the voices of caregiver kids can get lost in the waves of responsibility that befall a family of someone who has become Seriously seriously disabled and some of you here with us today may have experienced that yourselves in your own families But now I think what I'd really like to do and it is my honor and privilege to kick off the seminar seminar with a Video that's going to help us amplify those voices. So without further ado This course of 15 things military and veterans kids want you to know Military kids miss their parents where they're deployed no matter how long they're away Sometimes families know in advance about a deployment Other times parents can be called away Unexpectedly for lots of reasons and there is not much time to prepare and say goodbye This is definitely a case with national garden parents who might be called away to help in an emergency Regardless of the circumstance military youth say despite how much they miss their mom or dad They understand the reasons for his or her absence from their family Compared to the non-military peers Children of active-duty families have a deeper understanding of the concept of serving something larger than yourself They know their parents signed up to protect their country and in doing so protect them and all of us Even at a young age, they understand how important this is and that their parents service matters very much to the people of America They have a unique comprehension of the word hero and how it means making a sacrifice for the good of something or someone else A lot of military and veterans children don't have a lot of details about what their active-duty parents experienced during deployments What they do know is that sometimes mom or dad comes home looking the same but acting differently Other times if they have experienced a physical injury They may look different as well or they might not be able to participate in activities the same way they used to The children of veterans may live in a house where loved ones experience trauma or has a different injuries They can be confusing for military kids and can acquire adjustment for the whole family Resources are offered by the military or in the community like family or individual counseling or events for military kids To help children manage their adjustment to visible and invisible injuries in their parents Moving around makes it hard to make and keep friends The military family lifestyle is unique and presents certain challenges However for most military kids even very stressful situations or unique circumstances can feel normal It's just the way it is in their households deployments moving to and going to schools in different states or foreign countries and Being far away from family and friends are just a few of the experiences military kids share Finding ways to connect other military and veterans kids can help to normalize their feelings about this and provide an outlet for stress After all, there's nothing quite like talking to someone who knows what you're going through We deal with complicated feelings Military kids often experience a lot of conflicting emotions They're proud of their parents service and have me be a partner something that matters so much to their parents But as they grow and learn more about their parents jobs, they develop an understanding about the dangers he or she might face They often live with unspoken fear that something will happen to their parents Especially when they're far away in the middle part of the world The conflicting emotions occur partly because the culture of the military one that values bravery Selflessness and teamwork gets translated to the children with active-duty service members in these situations Without anyone specifically telling them to Military and veterans kids can feel ashamed to be afraid They want to be brave like their parents are and make their parents proud of their courage Many times this leads to military children keeping a lot of their complex feelings about their family to themselves Sometimes we don't want to talk about it Military and veterans kids want to be treated like other kids Regardless of the fact that their parents wore the country's uniform a small percentage of Americans have ever served in the military And even fewer are currently serving in active duty You can imagine this means that for military kids They often find themselves in situations where people don't know what life is like for them or their family Quite simply military kids say they sometimes just don't want to talk about it or explain it Military kids also want those other people in their lives to understand they are not responsible for Nor do they understand military decisions that affect their family directly and please don't ask military kids about their parents combat Experience or exactly what their parents did well deployed for many reasons The details of these deployments are often not shared with children and non-military people who meanwhile should not ask about them We might be caregivers to our parents Some military and veteran children take on responsibility of providing care for a parent who is injured ill or wounded in service Sometimes wounds to the veteran parent are visible like amputations or blindness While others can be invisible like toxic exposures traumatic brain injuries or post traumatic stress Wounds people can see are easy to explain But invisible wounds are much more difficult for children to explain and hurt others to understand For instance Military kids with injured or ill veteran parent may have some unique challenges socially Responsibilities at home can take up a lot of time So the ability to spend time with friends might be limited Again, this is hard for military to explain to their peers so often they don't try In addition to household chores that other kids are responsible for Military caregivers might help their parent with additional activities of daily living such as helping a parent with eating, bathing or taking medication Finally, some of the ordinary everyday activities that other families might enjoy might cause a lot of anxiety for families that include a disabled veteran parent Like any other major life event in a family unit living with an ill or injured parent is a big change for a kid Even more so for a military kid who is a burden of uncertainty that comes with Appointments and constant transitions that are part of the military lifestyle a child with a wounded ill or injured parent Experiences a lot of difficult emotions These might be similar to those felt by the rest of the family Except military kids might not have the words to express themselves or feel comfortable doing so It's important to know military kids are resilient would support and encourage them from a trusted adult Military caregiving youth can learn to talk about their emotions and identify caregiving tasks. They can do to help the whole family Sometimes we just want to be like everyone else Their advantages to being a military kid are resilient Kids who grow up and not military not veteran households Probably can't understand many of the stressors and obstacles that kids in military and veteran community space As we've discussed the constant change Unpredictability and worry that often comes with a military lifestyle can be tough for young people to navigate And yet most of them do an amazing job at it and grow up to be really flexible adults Who are good at problem solving and interacting with a wide variety of different people and cultures Adapting to change is something military kids learn at an early age This develops self-efficacy and the knowledge that you have the skills to cope with something new And resilience which is the ability to overcome stressful situations And since we know that resilience is stronger in children who grow up knowing they belong to a close knit community Where they're understood, supported and cared for military kids have a leg up After all military and veteran family is considered much larger than those in the household It extends to the entire community which prides itself on taking care of each other We're proud of our parents service One person in the family serves our country the whole family serves Parents on active duty or hospitalized veterans may have to miss first steps birthdays Sporting events dance recitals and plays parent teacher conferences helping with homework and other milestones in their children's lives Many of these families however Are really good at finding unique and creative ways to celebrate together despite conflicting obligations or disabilities For example military families may record special events to watch later with their children Or delay in serving holidays birthdays and milestones until the serving parents can be there Military youth learn that days on the calendar are not as important as being together to celebrate or share meaningful connections Regardless of the way this plays out in a military family There's no question that the children of that family also serve their country They make sacrifices that can be really difficult all for something more important than themselves Thank you so much for taking the time to take this course about military kids And how their lives are unique challenging and really special We hope we have given you a better understanding about the best way to interact with and support the military youth in your life A special thanks to the military kids who provided the answers that became the 15 things As well as those who allowed us to use photos of them and their families throughout the course And a special thanks to d.a.v Disabled american veterans for making this possible and supporting camp crawls efforts to help military and veteran children Just be kids Fellow parents that you can talk to. Sorry. Let's talk louder. Okay. I have a panel of some really great military connected children and family members that we're going to talk to today But I want to thank you all for being here in attendance as well My name, like I said, is cary. I am also the military spouse of the year for the past two years for North Carolina I live in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I'm an active duty military spouse I am the daughter of a vietnam veteran on the aviator and i'm the mother of an infantryman So he kind of went a different route. I have a husband and a father who are on the aviators and his son He decided he was going to go infantry. Um, we did make a reflection for the family, but we're still talking to him about it and so I I kind of have a perspective of What my family's lived experience has been from what the 800 thousand plus veterans and military connected family members in North Carolina tell us as well as my husband just changed out of the command from the 82nd combat aviation brigade, the 82nd airborne division So about 9 000 other service members and family members And a lot of what I've heard from them and what we hear at camp corral echo And we hear a lot of the same things from you at TAV The mission of camp corral is to transform the lives of these children of our nation's military Heroes are wounded ill and fallen service members in each year. We do ask thousands of the children who participate in our camps And actually mentioned a number earlier This is this afternoon. It's actually grown. We've served almost 30,000 children since our inception in 2011 We're celebrating our 10th anniversary at camp corral and we provide summer camp Which I think a lot of you are very familiar with that because you support us through your efforts with TAV We also provide advocacy in year-round enrichment and holistic programs for these children and their family members And each year we ask them questions and a couple years ago we asked them the question What do you children want others to know about what it's like to live the life of a military child? What is it like to be a military connected family? And we had as you can imagine many various responses And what you saw today was the compilation of those top 15 responses And I think that they hit home with the many of you guys looking around the audience as the video was playing And I saw what it's like I saw agreement. I saw understanding And awareness and we want to bring this awareness to communities outside Of the military connected community So we're going to be using this video which was developed with TAV and partnership with TAV We're going to be using this as an educational resource for communities to support organizations for schools You know think of boys and girls clubs YMCA is all of these different types of extracurricular activities Where we have military connected children involved in those communities to kind of bring awareness and advocacy on their behalf So thank you all for helping us to amplify and elevate their voices And speaking of voices today, I'd like to go ahead and turn this over to our panelists I'm going to ask each of you if you will to introduce yourselves Tell us a little bit about yourself and then also if you will tell us one word Watching that video. What is the first word that comes to your mind? We'll start right here with him Good afternoon, I'm 22 years old and I have the daughter of a Navy corpsman He was in the Navy for 20 years being participant in one of the first camp corral sessions So and to me this video is just very honest everything they're saying I could relate to and it's really amazing to see that It's getting out there Hi, my name is Clare Zapp I'm 16 years old My dad, my sister, so my dad was also in the Navy for 20 years The camp corral camps were eight years, so he was supposed to be eight years old to that And whenever I was watching that video, seeing the pictures and videos from camp corral I just wanted to be one of the friends that I've made in the friendship that Have definitely been made at these camps But the two military camps Good afternoon, my name is Amy Taff I am the granddaughter of a war war two vet, the daughter of a Vietnam vet The wife of a post-sign leather vet And that video to me Humble because we are finally at a point in time where we can start talking about our children were 97 and 1 Hi, I'm BNC Dave Riley I was an Army and Coast Guard and Terry Bratt So we've experienced all aspects of this So the one word that comes to me, there's a lot of loneliness I think I think a lot relate to quite a bit of what you're talking about Dave Let's go ahead and if you will I'd like to hear from the Riley's The video talked about that the changes that kids may identify with when a parent comes home wounded Can you tell us a little bit about what the experience was in your household when you came home wounded? What was that like for for you for the children? Oh, it's completely different Dave. I remember our son saying what for Dave that said that dad could do anything But when he came home and it was a lot of learning process I mean you see him walking and It was a lot of learning process when he first came home Life just changed completely From being very active to our life's kind of involved around us and for a little while until we adjusted So when I was still in the hospital I remember my son didn't even want to come see me because I had lost my limbs and everything and he just Didn't want to see me It's uh, it was a long process and you know, I was going through changes for the same time It was very difficult for many years getting adjusted to think They are stronger now perhaps gone through the experience and They grow up off And so looking back on that obviously you said that there was a lot of challenges What types of supports that do you see that are in place now that maybe were not then that you wish Maybe your children had the opportunity to have those resources or supports And what's not out there now that might have been helpful that you kind of had to figure out on your own? Well, I don't think we ever said we're a caregiver when when you got sick and we never thought to ask the children You know, we just adjusted and tried to keep their lives as normal as possible like a church or their sports and dancing Um, we never thought to ask them now they were feeling there was no counseling or anything that It is a different world. I'm curious Out here in our audience you brought up a really good point How many of you have actually heard of or familiar with the fact that we have Children who are performing caregiving duties in households taking on those responsibilities Right, just a handful. So it is this is something that camp ground is working with more and more because it's just like you said We don't believe that There is that level of awareness out there But the reality is is that children are taking on roles as caregivers They're doing well beyond just what your normal chores are, right? We want our children to do chores and take on responsibilities in the household The this is over and beyond so when we're talking about caregiving roles that these children are taking on Especially in the households where they have a wounded or an ill service member Veteran parent we're talking about over and beyond the normal chores and activities and duties We know at camp corral right at 70 percent of the children who are attending our summer camps this year Are taking on caregiver roles at least one caregiver will in their household With that in mind Amy, I know you have a lot to say about some changes in that Bringing about awareness of children Why you're so adamant about bringing that awareness and what that personal meaning is absolutely So I think it's wonderful that we're starting to use this word caregiver or children Because of the fact that these children are being asked like you said to take on roles and responsibilities above their own It's making them grow up a whole lot faster than their peers Is Whenever you have a pre-adolescent All they want to do is be like the person next door that these are children who are having to take on tasks such as baiting a parent As an adult and whenever you have to make your parent It can be humbling imagine being a 10 11 12 year old child That has to be your parent about Imagine being the parent that has to receive them back from the 10 11 12 year old and how those dynamics can easily change So they're not only having to take on the responsibility. They're also having to battle this constant role of Being a kid and how do they keep that relationship? Even killed, you know, whenever you're having to take on these extra responsibilities, how do you Take on a responsibility for your parent one day and then the next day have your same parent lecturing you about seeing them as the forced to listen to You know as the person to listen to and as the person is going to give them wisdom and the person is going to You know direct their life the rest of the year. So there's this constant battle that's going on in their head Are they the person that's supposed to be giving the care or are they the person that's supposed to be receiving the care? And the answer is yes to both And so like we as a spouse it took me years my husband was injured in 2010 it was probably not till about 2013 2014 that I realized how to be a spouse and a caregiver I can't imagine at the age of five and twelve Whenever their father was injured What it was like to have to try guessing battle of how am I supposed to listen to this person as my parent And be person responsible for providing the care So I think we need to just be very adamant about recognizing their role in family recognizing that they're going through some of these same battles That they are having to do this and then also Add on the peer groups how their peers react to this how the isolation happens with them because they don't want people to come over to their houses and see this part of their life And I think that's a great point because um, it's hard to talk about And we've been talking about what it's like for you. I'd like to hear from Claire and Isabella What is that like like we're talking about where you we're talking about where it's like isolation like loneliness We're also talking about the need for connection. Can you tell us a little bit? Of course So I mentioned earlier how this video was very honest for being in for us. Um, I don't want to speak for But we you do get become very isolated and alone and as my mom mentioned At 12 13 years old, you just want to be like everybody else fit in and You want to be normal? And so for us Or at least for me, I think the big suggestion was in that middle school age You want to have birthday parties you want to have bonfires and friends over I don't want my friends over My dad has a right to drink. Um, and so I didn't want him to have an explosive moment from the overstimulation of that and my friends see that and then then want to be You know hang out with me or spend that time with me because of my dad um Another part of that too, we've been from a sisterly side There's seven years between us And I kind of had to help my mom take on the responsibility of not only my dad, but also my sister Because there were times whenever my mom needed to take care of my dad because it wasn't something that I could do And she would be would be dinner And so I would have to help cook dinner or help her with homework And so, um, we kind of have a bond that's a little bit different than just a sisterly bond Because we walked through that together Even to this day and everything that'll happen at home And she won't be able to talk to mom or dad, but I know that she'll talk to me Because we know what each other has gone through and that's something that neither of our parents can understand And I think that's something so amazing about camperelle and everything that they do Is they give you that peer connection so you're not isolated as lonely anymore You have people and you know it's a safe environment because everybody in that environment Has a parent that has some kind of injury And so being at the camp I found that It was the place that I could really open up It was the first place that I was able to open up and really start talking about everything that I had experienced And I think that's a great point because you were surrounded by others who get it Who although they may not have the exact same experience They can understand your experience. You don't even have to talk about it You just get to be a kid So Claire I'd like to hear from you What advice do you might have for other children who could be listening and who want to make those peer connections But aren't quite sure how to go about doing that. We know it's important. So how would you advise them? Um So I guess with the brain injury so I've got to go Knowing my dad as he is and having to learn how to make friends Who also have like quick connections with who evolves up in the military Like who have military parents and it's just getting involved and having to talk to people So getting in they go Can't go out and being able to find people who are like you to communicate and be able to express yourself more Um because they understand and even going like bringing some of that to school They go and be like, oh you said that was in the military. Let's be friends talk about it Let's be someone we can lean on Our parent is having a bad day. We can always call each other or text each other. Okay, like this is what's happening I should have been really lonely like It's just something that you need as kids is someone to lean on and Being able to find an area Being able to find someone that we can lean on in our age is a whole lot easier than finding a parent or an older Person in that matter to lean on so Definitely get involved in your community in your military community in your school in any way you can with the military That's a lot easier Great advice. Thank you for that. That's really good advice. It's just that getting involvement in sometimes There's so much strength in being vulnerable, right? And it's you're allowing yourself to be vulnerable and you receive the benefit of that by And being stronger and showing that there's the opportunity to be that I'm curious to hear from the parents down there. We've talked a lot Dave whoever would like to answer We do know that more and more children, especially these military community children Take on more of these character responsibilities And we hear from parents often that they don't realize that their child is actually a caregiver They don't use that word and realize that what they're doing is providing Caregiving responsibilities. They just kind of slide into that role a little bit here one day a little bit more one day So could you please whichever you would like to answer all of you? Share with us how you see your children take on their role as a caregiver and maybe provide some suggestions to other parents You might be able to come in on how to support their children and how to recognize when their children are taking on caregiving roles Well, we just We have one role today. I obviously had to follow her program I was helping David they did end up giving to helping him plug things in A cup of iced tea you just Do what you have to on a daily basis like I said there as much time as they could live their normal lives outside of house They still have a normal life So, I mean that's just part of my Come together as a family and then make it work I I give all the credit to yvonne and my kids for Putting up with me for all those years because it was pretty rough for many years But we kind of figured out a way to keep on going and come together and help each other out Go to more sports with a little bit different things because I really didn't have a lot to do and you know, so It was tough at first learning how to communicate learning what things I would need Just to survive every day And you know, they did such a good job at adapting. It must have been good for them because both my daughters are nurses now I think for us like you said If we have saying in our house, we we honestly think that the military slogan needs to be it is what it is because we find ourselves saying That's what it is. You've got to do one only And so I think for us or the advice I would give now that move back is helping your children fight that balance Keeping them involved in their activities finding ways to keep them involved in their activities Fine for claret's softball field You'll see your softball window or wherever she's at because that that's our comfort That's where she can be a kid and it's 100% kid For bella. It was dance Or or twirling your black color guard and just giving them those outlets to to do what they need to do to Be a hundred percent kid and then as far as the caregiving goes Um No one went to draw the calories So that they can be a kid and that's one of the things I wish I would have probably taken on early on Was knowing when it was done. It was great. My husband forgot how to tie his shoes She was five. Guess what she was learning how to do the entire shoe. So she had a lot of practice. She had a lot of air spoons Uh, whenever whenever dad was entering her entire shoes and then we were teaching them both at the same time So it worked. Um, there's been a lot of things that we've told them at the same time To do again and so you just kind of plug them in and let them do it And then now that they're older, I think um, the lesson that we learned with Isabella is teaching her that it's okay to spread around the needs And that we're gonna be okay We live in North Carolina. She just moved down to Orlando a month ago to take on her job We were super proud of her because for us She finally learned the lesson that she could spread around the needs of your own person We were going to be okay and she could go do what she wanted to do And that's what all parents want for their children right to be able to be independent and confident enough to take on their Their own lives as well One thing that you said has struck me is boundaries that it's important to create boundaries for your children What do you mean by that? How did you go about setting those boundaries and how do you just turn to what those boundaries should be So we have a couple of boundaries in our house. The first one that we have to teach is personal boundaries My husband has a moderate brain injury, but that's the frontal lobe, which means he has absolutely no filter at all Anything can be set at any point in time at any time And so we've had to set boundaries and we had to teach these kids that it was okay until dad That hey, you stepped into my learning and I need you to take a step back That was huge getting them to vocalize that and to be able to give them that natural personal space And respect because sometimes he loses that and it's not his fault. He doesn't need to do it But whatever, you don't have a frontal lobe. It just goes straight to the top sometimes And then the second one was the boundaries and roles in the family and it's okay to be a caregiver It's okay to put on some responsibilities on your shoulders Um, and then the third one of those is realizing that even though dad doesn't always act like the adult He's still the adult and teaching them that they can't use his injury for an escape Having that a short term memory loss is perfect for a teenager It is great. It is wonderful. We had many tales where they'd say dad, I told you that. Don't you remember? No, we don't remember because it was never said and so we also had to teach them the boundaries about using the injury as excuses Great great advice right there. Um, don't use the injury as an excuse And speaking of injuries, I'd like to hear from you Dave As the person who has experienced the injury and as the father coming home What was that like for you in the role as the father? To have maybe you meet on you know when I first came home From the hospital, uh, I still did not have from prosthetics Had everything I need to help with everything. It was like learning how to live all over again So the kids they were they were trained real quick How to how to get things and what need to be done and all that It's uh, you know I look back at it now and it's gonna be done so much better with They help go around I think just knowing some of the stuff that we were going to go through and go Some of the things we were going to encounter and back then there was no life care here in my program So we didn't have a lot of health on VA. So You know it just You know and and I had medications that made me not good to be around So they learned how to deal with that Learned how to deal with a very angry man for many years. Um, and You know, I think that they Grew a little bit from having to deal with that early on and their relations with other people when they can see how bad Things could get, you know Some uh, they were instructed a little bit More than they have as a child I think Definitely, I would say challenging would be an appropriate word to use. It sounds like Each of you What would you say some of the biggest challenges facing our military connected children are These days don't start with the military connected children. What are some of the largest challenges? But especially for those who are living in a household where there is a disabled So from Ryan, I definitely think it goes back to that figuring out where your boundaries are Kind of along with that joking like the personal boundaries in our house. Um, we have two code words now We have tbi boy and we have hulk kind of get a laugh out of So that's a huge thing. Um, but like we mentioned earlier to just being vulnerable, um, unfortunately, I'm sorry, I get emotional I was a child of a service member who had a brain injury and he felt like a burden on his family and he thought that he was one more person that his mom had to take care of and um I was a little bit at committed suicide at the age of 15 16 And so that was really the moment for me whenever I was like, okay, this is my chance I have to put my story out there to let other kids my age and know that they're not alone So that that doesn't happen anymore And unfortunately this will happen. Oh my goodness. I'm sorry Um, but I think getting kids to open up especially teenagers kids, I mean Who likes to do with the teenager? I don't like to do it myself whenever I was a teenager Um but To know that you're not alone is such a huge thing and so being vulnerable and being out there and open and Being honest with everybody in the world is a huge challenge Um, but it's also the best thing that I could do because Whenever I opened up Suddenly I realized that I wasn't alone because other people were coming to me and saying I'm here for you I know what you've been through like, thank you for doing this for me And then we were able to be a team and be like, oh, well, this is what my family does Why don't you try that as well? Oh, here's what my family does. I can't lie that A quick example of that was whenever my dad was first diagnosed we used um, weather To help her as a five-year-old understand these days So we had sunny days and holiday days and we had stormy days and I had a friend I think two or three years ago Um, but I ran into a lot of us at college and they were telling me about what they were going through and having me understand Like I was like, oh, here's what we use and you don't have to be a kid to understand that but it puts it in like these terms So just being open and honest it can be such a challenge, but it can also be a huge blessing Absolutely And I first of all, thank you for being open and honest and vulnerable right now because I think that what you just said and what you shared with us is it resonates And I think it resonates to each other one of us because we all want that connection, right? We are wired for that connection And we know that the research is there that connection is one of the pillars of resilience And so in order to really truly be resilient and to be strong We have to be connected and sometimes that takes being vulnerable So thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that with us Amy, did you want to add something? I was just going to say, um, another way, or you may be best to say anything about this But another challenge that we have you mentioned one-year-old and five-year-old seven-year-old Clara was five These children are living with the ramifications of some things. They don't even really remember anymore either Clara has very few memories of her dad actually in service.  I jumped into the military school to be over because I didn't get to travel anywhere I literally moved from one into Jacksonville, North Carolina to the other end Very boring I wish I had to travel before with the military But I was just, did I screw to be over with that part? Because she's a military kid, I expected to be a military kid because everybody sees her father in her injuries And so it's a challenge because she doesn't know exactly where she fits in And we have a lot of kids now that are, you know, older And their father's injuries or their parents, excuse me, their parents injuries They didn't need to be specific or their parents injuries or whenever they were so young But they're still expected to have all of those things in the military child And that's a huge challenge too, you know, whenever you don't remember the actual lifestyle, but you're living with the ramifications Absolutely Thank you for that because that is that's a very good point there is that None of these children don't know the before, right? There is a before and after but not all of them know the before So there's that sense of an identity whenever, you know, oh your your parent You know, thank you for your service and your parent was injured in support of our nation But they don't understand who the parent was that went into that service So that's a very good point a very good reminder And we have talked a lot about the challenges and we've talked a lot about, you know, these obstacles that Families have to overcome and the children as caregivers have to overcome There's a lot of really good stuff that happens being part of the military connected family too So I'd love to hear about that too. So let's talk about some of the triumphs We've talked a little bit about Isabella like finding that sense of strength inside me So Claire, what would she say one of the triumphs one of the great things about being a military connected child would be? Very fast And it comes in handy a lot whenever you and so I think that as you get older obviously you want to be responsible And the fact that you can learn that at such a young age I don't think it's a downfall that oh you gotta grow up too fast you're so responsible I think it was wow looking you like look at what you did you Um stepped up and you're helping taking care of your parent like how responsible you became not as a bad thing but as a As a triumph as a as a way to show what you've gone through and how much you've overcome And I'm sure it kind of gives you some confidence like I've gotten through this I've taken this on I know that because of that strength I can use that strength in other areas Did you have something that I like try to something good and so I grew up knowing the military And while we didn't know a lot we had friends that came and went a lot Um, and so you'll hear us talking about our brother all the time And with that, um, we have so many extended family and it's because of the military. They're not truly You know blood related, but that's our family so I remember her brother Um friends and friends do him and everyone's kind of you know, we don't do formal holidays Everything is super chill come and go That's been a result of my dad's injury so that he could step back if he needed to or be there whenever he was ready And so sometimes like oh hey the tax, you know have things give it your Easter. I think it was And he was like, oh, I don't want you to be like no seriously They tell us if we don't show up with somebody they don't know we're not doing it, right? Um, and so he showed up to our house and the joke is that we fed him and he never left He's a Marine so we fed him And that's all it's up. We never left I'd like to hear if we are gonna do questions for just a moment. So, um, hang tight for a second So the Rylings I'd like to hear from y'all both your children. What would you say? Um, what are some of the silver linings? What are the triumphs that come from your family's story? Well, I think, uh, my kids got a, uh, exposure to a much wider range of life Are you doing a ditto down there? All right, so, um, we are going to turn this over just a moment to questions and answers But before we do that, I'd love to hear from y'all We opened with what is one word from the video that resonated with you Now I'd like to ask you about the 15 things that we saw What one thing do you think applies to your family or to military children as caregivers? Um, so for me it was the one that said sometimes we don't want to talk about it and It's the truth. I mean sometimes I don't want to talk about it And so my mom was very patient with me and she wanted for me to come to her So that was a huge one that you can't always force it out sometimes trying to force it out can make it worse I'm too good at parents Such a big thing that it's complicated. We're struggling to and sometimes we just can't find the words to To go to someone and say so it's easier just to sit and think about what you're doing what's happening and, um Not speaking at all to anyone about it. It's just You don't want to talk about it, you know And I love what you're saying because what what you've just heard is something that we hear a lot at camp corral is They go to this camp with other children who have some of the similar lived experiences But that doesn't mean that they spend the whole week. They're talking about it many times They don't even talk about it. They just do kid things. They just get out there. They have a great time They are living their best life having adventures Um, and they don't have to feel like they have to talk about it They're just with people who understand and get it. So I I hear that a lot From a lot of the children that we serve Amy, what about you? We're just like every other family That's the one that resonates with me. We have a couple of struggles, but other than that, we're just like any other family Riley I think uh resiliency kind of jumps forward from being able to bounce back from extreme challenges Be able to build them All right So we do we have all of these this list and once again this list was compiled from About 2,000 children gave us their responses and I think that that is very indicative of what this community Children who are caregivers these children who are at home and providing care to Their parents their guardians who have been injured or ill through their service to our nation I would in this time like to invite you to ask questions of our panelists to make comments Anything that you would like to add in the conversation? Please feel free to step up to the podium if you can't make it up to the podium Let's know when it might come to you. Okay. Yes


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