Hello and welcome to the digital radio hour on WOZO radio 103.9 LP right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Today we're recording this on Sunday, June 19, 2022. I'm Larry Rhodes or Daughter 5. And as usual, we have our co-host Wombat on the line with us. Hello Wombat. Hey, it's me, the Wombat. Welcome. And our guests today are John Richards from Over in London Way. We have Dred Pirate Eggs from Western Canada. Welcome. And Joe Skye. How are you? Welcome. I'm doing good. How are you? You're in Texas? I am. Okay. Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faith, God, holy books and superstition. And if you get the feeling you're the only non-believer in your town, well, you're just not. In Knoxville, here in the middle of the Bible Belt, we have a group of over a thousand others. And we'll tell you more about that group after the mid-show break. Wombat, what's on our topic today? Today, we're going to give Christians everything they want for Father's Day. Isn't that fantastic? We're going to have to go. Oh, great. But before we get into it, let's throw it up to our own Dred Pirate Eggs for a weekly invocation. Father Noodly Lord, who art in a colander, how dente be thy noodles, thy blood be run, thy sauce be young, with meat as it is with vegetables. Give us this day our garlic bread and forgive us our cussing, as we forgive those who cuss against us. And lead us not into ketoism, but deliver us some carbs, for thine are the meatballs and the sauces and the grog whenever and ever. Amen. Guys, do you think there might be a schism in the Church of the Flames Spaghetti Monster based on whether you do this or if you do this? Do you think there will be like absolute divisions in the future? The crossed hands are blasphemers. Ah, there's this too. There it is, there it is. We had another comer in George Brown's second and a half. Hope you're doing well. Happy Father's Day. Yep. Welcome. Oh, you're on mute. But it's all good. Guys, it's going to be a good show today. I want to talk about Father's Day. We have a lot of fathers on the show. I want to talk about June 19. That's awesome though as well. And then I want to give Christians literally everything they want for the rest of the show. How about that? As Dred, it goes through the many changes of getting his light set up.  So, you know, happy about that. I want to ask you how, how is family life and what's your plans for Father's Day? Well, it's wonderful here.  And let me tell you, this will shock you. My oldest son is 49. Yeah, he's in France. And in contrast, your youngest child is how much? The youngest one is 11. She's a girl. She's, she's 11. So I have two of each. Which is really cool. Happy Father's Day. Equitable, I think is sexually equal or something. Good job. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah. I love the role of being a father and dad. Yeah. Good. So, yeah, but I do recommend to everyone to all and some three. This is my advice. Never have children. Fair enough. I'm not going to say it myself, but it's still my advice to everyone else. Yeah, if anything, let their parents raise the kid and then try to marry them because then then you legally own them. Right. There's your advice. Don't take children just wait until they grow up and then you can marry them. And then they're your possessions. Larry Rhodes, dad or five. We, you got kids. Hi. Well, it's father life like. I inherited one when I got married. No, I've never had actual children myself. I've never changed the diaper in my life. So, you know, I took John's advice until I got married.  I'm very proud father of a lovely young daughter. Yeah, and you know fatherhood comes in a lot of different forms and I respect that as well.  You can't ask for anything. Dread pirate Higgs, the man of hobbies, and, and what is the right word for it invocations, vocations, that's probably the vocation. Vocations and invocations. Yeah, you. How's your family? How's your father's day going so far? Well, I mean, it's pretty darn early. My wife isn't even up yet. Okay, okay. And she's actually sleeping directly above me. So she will probably be up soon. Because, well, she, she doesn't share my passion for this sort of activity. So what do you do on a father's day in Canada? Like, what's the occasion? Do you get like all dressed ruffles or do you get like bacon? Like, what's, what's the George? I'm hoping for bacon. Yeah, every day is a good day with bacon. So a father's day with extra bacon is even better. Fantastic. Can't complain. I love it. George Brown, your mic's working. How you doing? How's your family? Is my mic working? Can you hear me? Yes, sir. I'm wearing my space alien headphones. No, I'm great. Yeah, I got them from the recycling center. Being suitably cheap. People are having to replace their headphones because the newer computers don't have jacks on them, which are compatible with existing headphones. Right. So, you know, I've been experimenting. I've been experimenting with reducing the base response of headphones so I can understand people better in Zoom meetings. So I've actually glued foam rubber. Nice. To literally let out the base and it's actually working. This is the degree of experimentation is something that I endorse on this show. So keep science. Yeah. And then eventually we'll get towards the full face mask and you just have like a visor with like a little LED lights on it. And like, these are my headphones. This is what I use to communicate with people through space. Like what you're doing is communicating with people through space. It should look sci-fi. Well, I'm what do you call it recycling stuff, you know, that's supposed to be good for the environment and all that. But it's just about everything I'm I'm using at this moment technically is secondhand. Actually, cool. Yeah. Sky. Love to talk to you. Do you have a Father's Day wish or or appreciation? No. Okay, fair enough. Listen, I can tell you right now. I have kind of an un-traditional family structure. Hey, behind you is very, very bright. I can adjust that or not. I can't even tell if I'm a center of the screen. You're a little off center, but we can we'll work on the smaller details until then we'll just have the angel on sky.  If you moved a little bit to your right, I think you would you would actually be in a halo. There you go. He went from the angel on his shoulder is just literally being Jesus now. That's the perfect shot for radio. Yeah. All right. The last thing is I'm a single guy, but I got a cat. I'm happy with the cat and I'm very well. So I've had him now for about six years. I feel pretty good with our relationship now. And you know what? Like I said, fatherhood in all forms, right? So I'm happy to spend a holiday where I can think about the good will that I've imparted on, you know, any animals or other human beings. And it doesn't just have to be family members. It could be good friends. But go out if you know a dad. But if you know a single mom, if you know anybody, wish them happy Father's Day if they're if they got people they're taking care of. I think that's important. So you're Vinny's dad. Yeah, I am Vinny's dad. I'm a cat dad. What else can I say? I also go out to the animal shelter. I'll be doing that later today and taking care of some more animals. Step kids, step, step pups and stuff like that. Guys. Okay. Okay. I didn't quite hear that. I have a little dog just turned one. Nice. Good. Powerful. She is part house departure. Whoa. Okay. Wow. How did that happen? I don't know why we, we think that the Chihuahua probably found the husky sleeping. Surprise. Chihuahua part husky, but both their parents are part acrobat. That's how it happened. It's also June 19 celebration and black lives matter. Also really happy to just have appreciation on the federal level for, you know, emancipation. So really happy about that too. But what I really want to. The thing I'm really excited to jump into the topic today. So how about this? Just as a quick preamble Christians win. Christianity wins. We know Christians. We know it for a fact. It's not an ambiguous point. It's not just my opinion anymore. This is the case that the world view of Christianity actually takes place. And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because I heard an interesting quote. People tend to see what they want. And we suffer the consequences of it. So what, what other way can we highlight some. Concerns we may have if we just. A holy take it for for granted that the Christian world view is in fact accurate existing. And how will that impact society and give them the world they want. Yeah. They want and see if they actually like it or not. I think there may see some questions. So for the rest of this discussion, let's not labor on the point of like which God or like which version Christian. Let's just say general Christianity is true. That God already made that self clear. But now what do we need society? Now, when we look back in society, we do a little accounting. Do we still need a space program? Do we still need funeral homes? Like, how do we treat each other? Now that we know that the Christian world view is accurate. And I want to talk to you. So one, and this is stemming off of something that Larry likes to say is that death is now officially just a change of address. Right. And if that is the case. And it's just, you know, he's just moving from one place to another place. Wouldn't that mean that now funerals no longer have to be like these sad affairs. You can actually be celebrating. It's like, oh, thank goodness. She got a car crash. Great. Linda's now finally in heaven and we can check that up. And it's like, great. We don't have to worry about her. Just clean up the car trash. You can throw away the body. It's not a big deal. It's like all good. And you'll, the family will see her in heaven too. If they, if they make it through judgment, whatever, we'll get the text message. Everything's fine. What is death anymore? Like death is not a bad thing. That's that could be an emissary. Good thing. What do you think? What do you guys think about that? Wouldn't we all just be lemmings and jump off the cliff and, and get our way up there right away. Catholicism still applies. You have to wait until you actually have like a terminal illness or just don't take your medicine.  And then let it happen naturally. What do you still need an invitation? John, Richard, what do you think? Well, I'm, I'm well prepared actually because I, some time ago, I bought the domain after life doc cloud. Okay. I've already got it. I've already got the address to move to. John Richard. Yeah. So all male can be forwarded to his address. So if there's any afterlife sort of things that yes, because ghosts are well known to. If you start getting responses, you got a problem. Yeah. John Richard. What do you think? Well, I'm, I'm well prepared actually because I, sometimes I go, I bought the domain after life doc cloud. Okay. Look, I've already got the address to move to. John Richard's after life back. Exactly. Yeah. So all male can be forwarded to his address. So if there's any afterlife sort of things that you have to do, you got a problem. Sure. Sure. Sure. I do like that. I, I, George, you had a comment. What's up? I said, coming from a Jewish background. I feel like I've. Walked into this. This place where the lunatics are running the asylum. Very, you know, we're the guys who got caught in the, in the crossfire during the crusades. Yeah. It's a late movie twist now where the, the same asylum was actually the right people all along. So the world was like arc of asylum. Yes. Kind of. It's like Batman's the only crazy one here. So you were, you hit on a good point, right? What do you, why don't we all just become lemmings? It's like, well, you have to still wait until it's your time. You have to get the invitation. So if you get sick, you know, you may not be worthwhile not taking medicine. But if you get, if you need a life changing surgery, that could actually be criminal. If a surgeon wants to do that on you because. But by extension, not taking treatment is in fact. Surrendering or giving up your life, right? Like. Wouldn't it be this? Wouldn't it be sort of a passive suicide? Yeah. I think with, you know, to not do the surgery or not take the medicine because God's will, who made me sick in the first place. Right. So I'm just going to keep getting follow through. Because when I die, I go to heaven. Yeah. Yeah. Like, well, who am I to take medicine when I'm sick? It was God's will. Who made me sick? I can pray to God and be like, yeah, I made you sick. It's like, I'm not going to mess with this. I'll either be saved by God's grace or I won't be. And if I die, it's just a change of address. What, in fact, we should go another level and say anyone who goes out of their way to sell medicine. That should be, that should be a criminal law because that's going against the will of God. If you have cancer in your, a curable cancer and it's cured, that should be criminalized. What do you think, John Richards? And then we'll go back to George. Well, I'm thinking that abortion would actually be desirable. Fortune would be desirable at that point. Wouldn't it? Yeah. That and capital punishment, right? The best thing, the best thing you could do for your, your egg. Yes. Is like prematurely have it. Oh man. That went dark really fast. Yeah. George Brown, what do you think? Well, you know, the good Lord made this bottle of pills that I'm holding in my hand and the good Lord made atheists. Sure. So there. Sure. I would still be outlawed in the new nation. I think it would be outlawed in the new nation too. One, you can't be an atheist to pull away that medicine. Is that medicine? Put it away. That's that's God's business. I know there are already Christian sex that practice that is. What is it? Christian science. Yeah.  Witnesses are that way too. But only today I had a conversation with my former sister in law who is very much a Christian. And it was along the lines of God gave the surgeons their brains and their skills to perform these operations. So it's a bit of a vague area now, isn't it? No, I actually think it's way more. So it's it's vague if you don't have access to a God that can tell you what he did and what he didn't do. But in a Christian worldview, you can always pray to a God who will answer your prayers. And you can figure out if he actually made you sick or not. And if the intention is I made you sick. Can I have a cure?  So why would you even waste time on medicine?  I got a sprained ankle. Dang it. I wish it was a gun wound to my heart. I wish I could die and go to heaven right now. Why am I wasting time with this in comfort? What do you think? We've just put all health workers out of a job. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't need them. We don't need them. It's way better to be in heaven anyway. It's right. What do you think, Dred? I was just going to say, you know, sports teams would, uh, no one would ever win a game because all the players for either side are praying for God to intervene. So either either he's, he's picking sides or he's not all love. Right. Right. Yeah. Hockey sports. That's going to be an interesting concept because if both teams are professional sports players are out of work. They'd also be no wars because of course he can't be on both. Would he, I'm confused. Why, why are you confused, John? Talk to me. Well, God is always on both sides of every war. Or at least claim to be, right? Now there's just a clear, if anything God is good at, it's choosing a one group against another group. So we'll just make it very clear which group is the winning group. But, but surely war is desirable too, because they're just all going to go to heaven, aren't they? It's a sort of shortcut to the rapture. It is. It is. And wouldn't this be the case that once it was determined which side was being favored that the other side would just throw it on their arms and give up? Why not? So I mean, they can't, they can't, they can't win. We're thinking about this in the context where death is a bad thing or harm is a bad thing when in fact, in a Christian world, these are good things because it gets you closer to the fast track to go into heaven. You have to like, I know we have atheist friends in this call, but you have to completely flip the foundation of what's bad and good because it is good to cause harm.  And when that's the case, now we're living in a society where we all have basically our social rules completely broken. And we have this worldview where it is actually kind of a good idea to unintentionally die or passively commit suicide somehow so that you can get to that heaven. We're going to let all the murderers out of prison to carry on with their good work. If they pray to God Jesus and get forgiveness, then yes, absolutely. Because that only increases my chances of going to heaven. Right. Kill me now. Kill me now. You can wear a shirt that says it. You could say it, but you can't actually do it. So it's just like, hey, put a big target on your chest. Exactly. Isn't that great? This is one of what would happen in a nation like that. If everybody acted like Andrea Yates did. Hmm. Well, she was, you know, a real fundamentalist Christian. She had several children and she was so afraid that if they grew up that they would, they were in danger of going to hell. I'll put it that way. So she one afternoon she went, took them all one by one to the bathroom and drowned them. Right. So that she would guarantee that they would go to heaven because her church preached. That young children, when they die, go to heaven. Right. She was willing to take the punishment so that her children go to heaven. And well, no, because all she could do is ask for forgiveness and be forgiven. Right. Oh, hey, you found a loophole. She's got the out. Well, it is a crazy worldview to be in. So let me tell you something. We got dark so fast. I should have started on funeral last, but I don't know. You're some good things. Some, some, some silver lining for this new world view. Yeah. Funerals in my opinion should be celebrations to an extent of a person's life. Yes, they are sad. It is easy to see someone go. And I think it is healthy to recognize that, but I feel like religion has infiltrated the funeral process so much that there isn't really the time to grieve on the loss. But if you were to also turn that into a celebration of a life, it might be more cathartic in a way. And I think if we truly accept that death is just a change of dress, we can take those same pleasantries and turn them into more of a celebratory affair. And I feel like there are some even really famous atheists who've done the similar thing where they have taken opportunities for when I die, don't come around here and just be sad and wear black. Have a potluck. Let's celebrate some of the papers that I published or like some of the feasts, which is more like the tradition of the week. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They've been doing it right in Ireland for a long time. Yes. And yeah, infamously. Yes. Well, I think that's right. We should celebrate the person's life and not get all tied up on the fact that they're dead and moved on wherever. Sure. They did live. They had that life. They had loved ones. They had friends. Celebrate it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you really love Laura, if you want to, if you want to do a good job, celebrate it while they're still alive. Yeah. You know, I, I see this on, on our highways here in, in, in BC anyway, where accidents happen where a person has died. There's now a shrine where they, where they died. Yes. In addition to the one that would be at whatever grave site that they're at, but you'd see a lot more of those because anywhere, anybody died, but all of a sudden be replaced to mark with, you know, the appropriate icon. Joy. Now I, so here's my flip on the idea. I'm just going to linger on this idea a little bit more would. So right now death is sort of this. A big thing. And it's big because it's finality, right? But when you take that finality away from death. Would we still enshrine sites where people die? Would we still put little pieces of stone where people are buried? Because now we know death is just this transitory thing. Why celebrate it? Why acknowledge it whatsoever? If anything, I'd be envious of people who are going to heaven because that makes me feel like I just because it becomes the portal. It's the portal from which they left to the better place. So it's enthrining the portal. So it'd be recognized as a portal.   You just get stored. Yeah. John Richard. Just think of it as the graduation ceremony. This degree means nothing. It's like, it would, if you did it in science, speaking to what you could probably talk about science later on, but John sky, did you have a comment? I think I saw you raise your hand. Well, I wanted to give you all some good news. But do you have any good news? Do you have a good news? No, I don't. I was just, Oh, but Frank. Well, Frank is decreed that good atheists go to heaven. Okay. We're in. So just be good and you get to go. Although I don't know. I don't want to go. Christians for attorney. I want to go with the cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't send me where the grammar Nazis are going. Let me have some. I'm not allowed though. Listen, we know that there are ghosts in the Bible. Right. So that would mean ghosts are in play. And I like John Rich's idea of having an email address because that means we could actually get emails from heaven for people who are already having a good time. And you just be like, Hey, Linda, I know you got that car crash. Are you in heaven? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll talk to you later. I'm going to a really terrible concert because there's no cool people here. So it's just kazoos and people blowing in grass reeds. I hope there's good music here in the future. Kill some rock stars for us.  Okay. Dread Pirate, you made a good comment. I want to touch on it. You said the healthcare industry workers would basically be out of the job. And John Richards, you made the similar point too. I don't think they'd be the only ones. I actually think we'd have an entire court system. You know, completely. Absolved because we wouldn't need a court system when we have the absolute law being given to us by God. And so if someone robbed the bank and pray for forgiveness for it and got it and confirm got it, how can we, how can we persecute that person or criminalize that person to any extent? Right. So we would have left John. So Dahmer out of prison when he got one of you accepted Christ. Yes, exactly. Well, one good thing is there'd be no lawyers. I love the silver lining. What we're doing here is substituting pastors for murderers. They become the new, new civil agents of clergy. Yeah. And what though in, in the, in the man, in the weirdest sense, that hasn't really changed much in animals of history. But I would say this court cases would change to two different things. One, we would have instantly half as many because the rule would be if you're a woman, just listen to the closest man nearby you, right? Right. And then the second one would be, okay, well, if you do, if you do go to court, if you pray for forgiveness, you can't, you can't criminalize it. I mean, I've already gotten forgiveness from God. So I'm absolved. I'm just going to keep doing what I was doing. And, and everything should be fine. Again, the goal is get to heaven as soon as you can. George Brown, second and a half. What do you think? I think that being the Jewish atheist in the room, you know, a double, doubly damned double outsider. I still feel like I'm in the Lululee bin, you know, where the inmates are running the asylum. Yeah. Help me. Help me, guys. I also feel like I need it. Here's an analogy for you, George. Just, just take your snakes and ladders forward. So we all want to go up a snake and we'll, we don't want to fall down a ladder. We got five minutes before the break. I want to throw out one more thought model for you. I think a lot of the worldwide fashion industries would also go to the wayside because everyone would be able to move faith with mountain or move mountains with their faith. So you wouldn't need caterpillar, making giant tractors. You wouldn't need people building streets. You just need people in hard hats praying. I mean, making. No, I take exception. Talk to me, talk. Just, just changing America or to the Christian nation would not make miracles happen. world view of miracles do exist. That's what I'm well, that's a world. But I mean, you can we had a world view like that during the dark ages. And mountains didn't move when you prayed for them to know that the world view is true. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Well, it's we're saying this is the case. But this is what the world looks like now. It's not a paradise. Is it right? And so if anything, if you like being in if you want to grow up to be a construction guy, get good at praying because that's how everyone's going to be moving. Man, if you want to move water, you pray and you can make oceans. What is chaos? What chaos?  You pray for him. His grass to dry or something. Well, he doesn't like you. So he prays for your house to catch fire. The whole world would just be in chaos. If it gets you closer to go into heaven, it's all good because this world is chaos. This world is doomed to die. That's why I say children would be killed by their parents so that they'd automatically go to heaven and wouldn't stand a chance going to hell. I was going to say too that there there'd likely be a lot more claims of virgin birth. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think and teen pregnancy would go up dramatically high both at the same rate. I think that would be like, oh, they're not having enough babies. Let me just start making babies. Boom, boom, boom, boom, you're pregnant.  And we're at the bottom of the order. It puts the condom puts the contraceptive industry out of I don't know. Oh, sure. I mean, you don't need it anyway. We gotta go for a break at this point. Stay tuned for the second half of the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOZO Radio 103.9 LPFM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We'll be right back after this short break. Hello, and welcome back to the second half of the Digital Freethought Radio Hour. I'm Dr. Five and we're on WOZO Radio 103.9 LPFM right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Let's take just a moment to talk about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in our 20th year, have over a thousand members, and we have weekly in-person meetings at Knoxville's Old City at Barley's Taproom in Pizzeria. Look for us inside at the high top tables. Usually the loudest and happiest group. Unless it's pretty, then we'll be out on the deck. Look around for us. We also have Tuesday. Oh, that's every Tuesday, by the way, starts around five thirty. We also have Tuesday evening Zoom meetings. If you'd like to join us, email us at Ask an Atheist at KnoxvilleAtheist.org or at less chat s e at gmail.com. You can find ASK on Facebook meetup.com or not go to their website at KnoxvilleAtheist.org or just Google Knoxville Atheist. It's just that simple. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville, you can still go to meet up and search for an atheist group in your town. Don't find one. Start one. One bat. Where do you want to pick up? I have I'm I'm gonna dread or doubt or five. I'm gonna start real quick. I'm just saying it's a fact now that the Christian worldview is correct. It's fact. We gave it to them. They won. It's done. But you know, you would think you'd wake up the next day if you're a Christian and see nothing but paradise if the Christian worldview was in fact the case for everybody. But what we're realizing is that it would be utter chaos in a sense and if anything, if you had any sort of meaningful vocation, it may not even exist anymore just due to the fact that all of our principles have now swapped from concerning the wellness or the well-being of people to what can I do to get the heaven as soon as I possibly can because this world sucks and paradise is just one bad incident away. John Richards or Dredd. Doubt or five. Doubt or five. Okay. No, I was just gonna recap for people who may have just come in. We're talking about the not only is a Christian worldview in power that but Christianity per se is actually true. Yes. All of it. And so we're we're following that down the rabbit hole. It's so crazy. And also listen the weirdest things you've been telling me so far is like okay so my neighbor can pray that my lawn can be destroyed. Okay, fine whatever. Destroy my lawn. Okay, so what's the worst thing that could happen? Someone might be murder me because they got out of jail because they prayed to God to forgive him. It's like, okay, so what if he kills me? I go to heaven. So what's the problem? This is nothing but upside. Let's let this happen. John Richards. Yeah, you've hit it on the head because disasters would become attractions. Yes. It would be like like a pilgrimage to rush towards a volcano. There's a world. There's a tsunami happening in Japan. Let me get my tickets right now. Oh man. And the disaster movies, they would become like rom-coms. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They'd be romance movies. They'd just be like, I can't wait to get on this place where the comments gonna smash us to smithereens. Judd Pirate, what do you think? You could never get insurance against an act of God. Oh. Which is already a case. Which is already the case, I guess. I guess insurance industry's out too. Larry Rhodes, what do you think? Well, I was just thinking that if all of it was true, I mean, if praying got you whatever you prayed for, it would be like everybody in the world having their own magic lamp and I mean a genie. Yeah.  You never have to go to jail. There would be no jails and no schools. You just wish for what you wanted.  I have a problem with that because you wouldn't want anything here. You would want to go to heaven in my head. And from my point of view, if I was that Christian mindset, I don't want a new fancy car. I want to go to heaven. So, why am I sitting here praying for someone? Why would anybody live past the age of knowledge that I mean like seven? As soon as you pass that late level and you can go to heaven, boom, pray to go to heaven. Get it.  Pray to go to heaven and you're gone.  Because it's God's will. He can say, I pray to go to heaven while I'm still alive. I'm up there, you know, gone. You can't pray to go to heaven. You have to, you know, the path to heaven is through a camel going through, I have a needle. It's going to be harder than that. You just can't be, God's, give me to heaven and you start going crazy. But didn't Jesus say, whatever you pray for, you will get? John Riches, you want to step in here? Is there anything that you want to comment on? Well, I was going to bring up a news item, because of course George is the Jew in the room. The secular Jew in the room. And he was mentioning how abortions were now legal in our new world. Which is perfectly, oh, didn't you? Sorry, my memory. No, no, I said we get caught in the crossfire all the time. Well, yeah, I mean in this new world where, you know, Christianity is the thing. Yes. They would be, they would be desirable. No, not desirable. I confuse myself now. Down in Florida. It's chaos. It's chaos. Abortion would be a truly compassionate thing you could do if you were finding out that you're pregnant, because it's the fast track to send the baby to heaven. And then you can meet with them in heaven. And then it's totally good. Then you're having with your baby. It's all good. Well, down in Florida, a bit further south than where George is, the state has adopted a very strict anti-abortion law. But the Jews down there are objecting to it, because in the Jewish religion, abortion is not only permissible, but desirable in certain circumstances. So at the moment we have a conflict between the Jews and the Christians of Florida. Sure. Well, that's really funny, because there's so many Jewish people from New York City who've moved to Florida. Yes. And probably some Canadians too to get out of that cold weather. You know, we would solve the problem of other religions, if anything, because there wouldn't need... Sheiks would realize, oh, that's the being, okay, well we're going to have to figure out something to do with all these turbines. Or rags. Yeah, or whatever it is. Yeah, exactly, exactly. The pheasants, I don't know if that's a religion as well, but like they would have to figure out a way to put them all positive parents would have to be like, dang it, but I still like pasta. Like, it would be... there wouldn't be atheists anymore, because atheists would know that a God exists. It's like, right? But whether they choose to worship is their own bag of potatoes after that. But still, you have the situation where there is a God, it's made himself known, Christianity won, but you still have these problems. And I feel like one of the most saddest things for me is that science progress, scientific progress, becomes absolutely meaningless or if anything taken away. Why would we care about a model that tries to discover how the universe works when now there's a fast line connector to the creator of the universe, will or will not tell you? Well, we go back to that state where, you know, all things are just made of goop.  You just take it for what it is, because it was created that way. And that's just the way it is. George. Well, I have an aside here. I'd like to do a reality check with you guys. A couple of years ago, I had major surgery at a Baptist hospital. And does this present a paradox or not in terms of respect for science? Let me ask you Christian, or you guys who came from Christian origins, to give me a reality check on this. I mean, I thought the treatment I got at this hospital and the surgery itself was pretty good. So I'm very confused, because I thought these folks don't believe in science. So we live in a world where this and this and this is both existing and profitable. And so, you know, if they were Baptist scientists who only prayed for people, that hospital wouldn't exist anymore. So they have to learn the science from secular principles and then apply it in the religious tapestry to be appealing to other Baptist. What do you think, Larry? Well, yeah, I think in a rational world that would be true. But would you still live in a rational world? Given the premise that we have during this show, I mean, everybody's looking over one particular item. Satan would be real and he'd be out there messing with people. Okay. I mean, he needs a supernatural being almost as strong as God. Here's my thing. I feel 10 out of 10 times Satan always gets a bad rap. I this is going to be terrible. I know it's going to be flipped. But in my head, God is the thug. God is the bully. God is the one who's like, this is the fastest. This is the terrible person.  Hey, let me tell you, this guy isn't in your best interest. Oh, you don't want to do a miracle for me. I don't, I respect that. I'm going to take your consent and I'm just going to leave you alone. There are so many weird stories where Satan is going in and incidentally helping people or going against God's terrible plan for how reality is constructed. And I feel like he was around. Go for it. You sound like someone who's read the Bible. I feel like we're saying this sound like people who actually read the Bible.   I'm like, kid, the guy who's drowning babies on chapter one is the bad guy. The one who's given dietary advice to nudists is probably telling some good stuff.  I think it's good for you. It's like, yeah, yes, I agree. I got another thought because if, as Dredd said, everything is made of goop. What does that make Gwyneth Peldrow? I guess I put her out of business, eh? Yeah. Though she might, she might be the new Mother Mary. Oh, yeah, yeah, right. It's almost literally, right? Just pushing goop out. From what the, from what the Pope said, is Madeline Marie O'Hare in heaven and do I want to be there with her? Yeah, does it retroactively take effect? That's what, I mean, because because she, I understand she had a relatively horrible temperament. So, even though she was an atheist, I don't think I want to be up in heaven with her. Just avoid her. But there are a lot of other, there are a lot of other reasons not to be there. There are a lot of streets that are paved with gold. Right, right, right. Well, we're trying Brussels there. Yeah, every, I mean, it's not everyone who's going to heaven, but yeah, I mean, if the Pope is correct, all the atheists have been going to heaven. So, you know, you have a lot of friends there. As long as we're doing this. We're so blessed. So, in regulation 2012, the Bible says that everyone will be judged by their works. So, if you're a halfway decent person, you're probably a, I think the most startling recognition that I realize is John's comment in that if there is a world disaster that we know is impending or coming to us, we would all migrate there as soon as we possibly can. And I think we would have more, we'd have more access ways to get there now, because now anyone, if they have enough faith, can walk on water. And I imagine if they have a comparable faith, they could probably drive on water too. What would stop them? It's like, if I can walk on water, I should be able to drive on water too. So, it's like, where's the comment? Where's the big earthquake coming? Where's the fissure? Where's the faultbreak? Where's the pandemic? Well, you know, and with natural disasters that you could pray for, there'd be no need for nuclear weapons. That's a good thing. Why would that be a good thing? You want to be hit by a nuclear weapon. Dread. No, but there would be no need for it, because you could simply pray for natural disasters. Yeah. For God to smite your enemies. It's not needing to build expensive scientific-based weapons. I get it. I get it. So, honestly, if there is the Christian worldview, basically, this world is trash. Get out of it. Burn it down as soon as you possibly can. Get everybody who would be burned. Send them to heaven. Get all those souls. Send them to heaven.  Basically, when the Christian worldview is true, and that's fact, cross out everything that we know in reality and find the closest way to get to death and take yourself out. It would be chaos as later you're bringing it up, but it's also sort of like a start in the reality when you realize that everyone has access to the super powerful being who can wish destruction on each other, but you don't have to worry about it because if you get destroyed, you get to go to heaven. So, what's the problem? It's just this terrible. It's this world's view that people want to happen. Christians go wake up every day hoping that the Christian worldview is a reality and that it takes place, but they don't realize the implications of the society where we are inherently selfish and we look at what we can do to benefit us at the end of the day. And if you give us this insane upsell of an internal paradise where we can all be happy with each other forever and ever, why spend an extra day on earth if we have to. Let's get those, let's get nuclear weapons. Let's get natural disasters happening. Let's get there as soon as we possibly can. It's, it is telling that we don't have a society that looks like that and it's also telling that we still have Christians who are, you know, in my opinion as they should be, empathetic and sad when there's funerals who want to have surgeries when they're, when they're ill, who want to protect their kids, you know, for the most part and value family and the time that we have here, that in my head is telling of a society that is looking for higher aspirations than what the Christian narrative is selling them. And I think that's what we should try to be knowledgeable about whenever someone tries to sell us the Christian worldview.  That's, that, that's basically my, my three steps. Anyone other comments? John Richards, what do you think? Oh, well, you've just said everything I would have said. I did like it's no shortage of salt, just contact Latt's wife or your nearest wife. Yeah. It's a, it's a reversal of everything we know, isn't it? So we're turning black into white and white into black. It's just peculiar. The Christian worldview really do seem to be fine. I think, I think this would all be a bad thing. But you know, what reason to live could you possibly have would all be nihilists. Exactly. For the happiness that we're being nihilist. Right. It's, it's the fast track to self-destruction and nihilism and the happiest, most insane way possible. It'd be a horror movie. It'd be basically, what's that movie where everyone's allowed to kill everybody for like a weekend or something like that? Oh, yeah, that's good. That's like, yeah. It would be that, but the religious version of it for like, until there's one last human being left and that's just like the last atheist repossessor in the world and just like, oh, wow, that was, that sucked. All right. So any other final thoughts on this before we go to Just wondering what would happen to crosses? Because would, would there be more of them? Would we, because it's become real now? Sure. Yeah. Well, that's what I was saying. They'd be kind of like the portals, you know? Yeah. They'd spring up everywhere. You could just stick one there and that's the portal they went through. Yeah, I like it. All right. So we're going to go into listener comments now. We have a comment from last week's episode, which was Surgeon General Warning for the Bible. Dottus Trading Room has made a comment that said Dredd, this is directed to you, buddy.  You need to invent something much more distinctive religiously than just a pirate tricorn. What about a noodley turban? He's already got a noodley beard. If I can find a millner that's willing to put one together for me, I'd be happy doing that. You'd be happy for, so here's my thought. You start with a full-on turban, get the license, driver's license photo.  It's like, why? What what condition were you okay with with a head full of pasta that now when I put a colander on top of it, you're like, that's the proper place that's the proper thing that you have in your colander. What are you doing? You know, it's funny you should say that because that's that's precisely how I've been working this. So, ICBC allows for women to wear a headband, right? As long as it's above the hairline and it's not obstructing. So I wore one and it had the symbol on it and they refuse. They said, well, if you flip it over, we'll take your picture. And I said, well, it doesn't make any sense. Are you objecting to my symbol? Or are you objecting to my head gear?  So it's it's demonstrating just the arbitrariness of their policy and the application of it. So we're working on it. I was going to suggest that, you know, with modern cameras, you can take four or five frames as one sort of short movie. And what we could do is have you morph from, you know, tricorne to pasta head and use that as your passport photo. There you go. Yeah. So when you in kind of a 3D thing, so that whichever angle you kind of twist it to, it's like I just want to see where it's arbitrarily stopped on the government level. It's like, okay, you can have, what is it, penne, but you can't have rigatoni as the pasta on your shirt. Like that crosses the line. It's like, you guys are so silly. But I want to be lasagna head. Catty Mae asks in our show on generalization, what do you think of the concept between alphas and betas? Is that also generalization? And she's referring to, most likely the term alpha, which is like a sort of a character type of a person who's distinguishing themselves as like a leader, but also unconcerned with the opinions of people beneath them to an extent, whereas beta is, tends to be more of a follower, but also deeply empathetic. What do you guys think of these two concepts? I think it's too rigid. Too rigid. I would agree. As an alpha, I agree. I think, so not to throw too much science into this, but I think the terms came from some guy who was doing a research exposé on social structures within wolves and within wolf society, and they realized, oh, here's the alpha wolf and here's the beta wolves, right? But then he came out with that term and it became very popularized, but afterwards he realized, oh, this is not accurate whatsoever. The betas have just as much meaningful impact as the alphas do. And they are, in fact, it's completely disambiguous. Quite often the betas will take place in the alpha ladder. Yeah. Well, the trouble with that piece of research was that it was conducted in an enclosed environment. Yes. It was a zoo or something, and they don't behave like that in the wild. Right, right, right. So he tried to undo it, but it became so much of a popular cultural thing to be an alpha wolf. That meme. The meme has lived on, despite the science trying to reverse it. A lot of things in science tend to be that way, or pop culture tend to be that way. What do you think? Well, I think that in the spirit of the first part of our show today, the meek shall inherit the earth. Good. I like it. I hope so. Another one. Can you prove a point with science? Ask the Loose Cannon on an episode called a puddle. Oh, hold up. Let me get the full title. A puddle shaped just for me. Can you prove a point with science? Most likely we made a comment probably in the show saying, well, that I think since proves this point, which means someone now asked this question. So around table, John Richards, can you prove a point with science? No, science isn't proof. So my argument would be if you have very well-defined terms, you can. But the things that you can prove tend to be so empirical that it has no real virtue in a real life setting. So I can prove three is three. No, no, I disagree. Because what do you think? Science makes use of inductive reasoning. And the whole point of inductive reasoning is that we don't have a full data set. So we can never be certain about anything. And proof requires absoluteness. So it doesn't exist in science. I will throw this out. Counter throw out. There are proofs in science to build up cases for something up to a standard of evidence. And if the original claim is so low, what is it mundane that you can come up with a proof that establishes that in my head? Well, you can build on the body of evidence to support a claim. And if it's mundane enough, I can meet that standard of evidence. That's what I'm saying. What you're talking about there is hypothesizing. And of course, you can use logic, which is provable if deductive logic, I suppose is provable, but you can use any rational thinking you like when you're hypothesizing or when you're designing an investigation. But the outcome is never proven. The impact on objective reality is not proves. But it's just the only way going ahead. The only way anything could ever be fully 100% proven as certain would be at the end of time. Oh, are we there yet? Larry, what do you think? I think can you prove a point with science? So it depends on the point that you're trying to prove. I mean, if somebody brought in a rock and said, this rock is radioactive. Well, he's making a point. Well, with science, you've got Geiger counties. You've got other things that you can use to measure that radioactivity of that rock. And with science, you can prove that it's radioactive or not. I mean, it depends on what you want to prove and, you know, the body of evidence is supported. Like I like the philosophy aspect of not being absolutely certain about anything. I really truly do. But I also feel like some claims or some mundane like that radioactive rock that you can come up with tests that objectively demonstrate that to the case. Whether that rock has feelings or sanctions, I don't have a thing to measure that. So I would say that's an ambiguous point. I can't prove. But if I can even just make it even more simple and be like, that rock is that rock. That is absolutely the case. That's A equals A. That's like one of the logical absolutes. Like it's so mundane. It's a tautology. And that can be easily demonstrated to be true. And I think points like that can be proven with science. That's what I'm saying. We need to wrap up. Oh, it's wrapping up time. Guys, Christians, you won, but the world is destroyed. Total chaos. Yeah, we prefer this world better. Sorry, guys. Maybe better luck next time. John Richards, where can we find your stuff at? I'm on Free Thought Channel. And yesterday I had a fantastic chat with a geologist who specializes in earthquakes. Please watch it. You'll love it. We had a good fun time to talk. Her name is Wendy Bowen, but her handle is Dr. Wendy Rocks. I like it. I like it. I like it. Skye, is there anything you recommend we check out before next week? On Facebook, I have the page, another page in Chronicles. On Sunday, there's always Bible contradictions get posted. And then I have the Humans for a Kinder World group. It's not too late to join the Kindest Revolution. Nice. I love it. A quarter of a million people on Facebook that belong to Kindest Groups. So I'm not the only if you're in the room. Did you say Kindest or Communists? Kindness. Kindness. Oh, kindness. Kindness for evolution. I love it. Also, Good and Dog, bad. Will you support that? John Richards or George, is there anything that you would recommend that we check out before next week? I never can remember until after the program. Fair enough. I want you to become more scientific in your look and shtick by next episode. Let's put a virus zero on that thing. Do you have Pirate Higgs? Anything that you'd recommend to each show? Sure. Age on this forehead. I get it. I get the reference. Yeah. So I have your live stream on my YouTube channel, MinePirate, M-I-N-D-P-Y-R-A-T-E at 8 a.m. Or no, 7 a.m., sorry. Sunday mornings at 7 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time. And I just wanted to mention that Data's Trading Room had been on live here with me. And one of the things you pointed out was that for Intercessory Prayer to work for everyone, we would have to live in that infinite world's cosmology or other infinite universes for everything to come true. I've got a lot of problems with that. Is that the same thing as imprecatory prayer? Intercessory. Yeah. Intercessory, imprecatory prayer. Is that the same thing or is that something else? No, I've never heard of that other word you said. I think imprecatory prayer is where you pray for bad things to happen to somebody else. Well, it would be the same as intercessory then.  I can almost guarantee that. That's how you do it. But is that in human hours or God hours? We're in God hours right now. It's happening. Larry Rhodes, feel free to take us out. Yes, my content can be found at digitalfreethought.com. Be sure to click on the blog button. There you'll find our radio show archives, Atheist songs, and many articles on the subject. My YouTube channel can be found by searching for Doubter 5 or Digital Freethought Radio. And I have a book on Atheism on amazon.com called Atheism, What's It All About? You can find this show on Apple iTunes, Pocket Cast, Amazon, and other podcasts. Just search for Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Thanks for joining us. And remember, everybody is going to somebody else's health. The time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hells and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life, and we'll see you next week. Say bye, everybody. Putting a silver stake into the heart of the show.


Hi, welcome to CTN member highlights. I'm Leslie McVane and my guests today are from the greater Portland landmarks Hillary Bassett executive director and Chris Claus who is the preservation advisor. Yes, great. Welcome. Thank you And we're going to talk about something special that's coming up fairly soon And that's a deadline for an award that you're going to be giving out Do you want to tell us a little bit about it and How people can submit nominations for this preservation award? Well greater Portland landmarks is offering a preservation awards program this year That's a little bit more expanded than we've done in some recent years We're actually seeking nominations in a couple of different categories structures and landscapes So that would be buildings and it could be buildings of any type So it could be a personal home all the way to an institutional structure a church Public library it could be any a variety of different kinds of structures and landscapes which would include parks or other kinds of landscape improvements and then there's also another category called people and Programs and those are the people who get things to happen in preservation and that's very broadly defined Well, that sounds exciting Chris. Do you want to talk about the age of these? Submissions, I mean you can't send something in on a house that was built 10 years ago And they did a little bit of remodeling over the past 10 years. It has to have some age to live That's right Leslie. There are some criteria and I can go over those briefly The what we're looking for our projects that were completed within the last five years That is between January 1st 2009 and June 30th of this month this year The age of the buildings themselves is not so much a criteria We obviously are looking for older structures But we're also looking for compatible new development within historic districts, which we call infill So the quality of design becomes important in in new structures or additions to historic buildings as well So those are part of the will be part of the submissions That's really interesting because I know there has been a lot of that Happening especially up on Munchaway Hill in the in the greater Portland area that you know That it's been interesting to see how they've fit buildings into a neighborhood that has been rather traditional And I also want people to know that the greater Portland area includes It's Portland and surrounding towns like Cape Elizabeth, Thalmouth, Westbrook, Scarborough Cumberland Cumberland So a number on Long Island, right the greater contiguous greater Portland area And I also wanted to say that when we talk about an historic building We're really talking about a building that's 50 years old or older But it's really about an old building that retains its its character and just to clarify as far as what is it? Historic building well, and I suppose the idea that the buildings that are being built now Will have that longevity Attached to them so that you know 50 years from now or a hundred years from now the buildings being built today We'll still have that integrity Right to fit into what a landmarks is considered. We like to think of those buildings as the landmarks of the future So quality and integrity of design and of materials is important. I love that now How do people go about making these nominations? For the consideration. There's an application form and it's on our greater Portland landmarks website Which is www.portlandlandmarks.org and it's pretty simple It really is to talk about what is the what is the project show us some before and after images and Make a case for why is it award-worthy the quality of the work done at the opportunity to bring back historic features Just bringing back a building that was needing needing some some care and attention and then just to send it in Actually in the form of a CD and a hard copy so that our our jury can look at it and then make a judgement and if they Want to find out more information or be reminded of what we've just talked about they can go to your web Website right which is the Portland landmarks org and they could also call us at 774-5561 and We can provide more guidance if they need if they have specific questions about whether their project and I think there will Be a lot of questions, you know when you talk about landscaping Does that landscaping have to be attached to? Structure to a building that is or can it be a park that has been restored? I think we have kind of a broader idea of that and I think our intent but but obviously we'll be very Responsive to a creative application our intent there was to make sure that historic landscapes were included such as and I think I Thinking was parks, but it also could be design landscapes associated with a property so I and I'm thinking they're Examples where somebody a homeowner or a property owner has restored a building and the ground So that certainly would be something that would be eligible. It could include a cemetery also or the restoration of a cemetery That's that's interesting to know too. So it's quite broad Quite exciting open to creativity as you say and I think people will be really excited about Submitting to this and the key date is July 14th. That's the Submission of nominations. All right, and then when will the presentation be it's going to be September 29th at the Merrill Auditorium We have a very special opportunity this year to be at Merrill. So we thought let's really celebrate our award winners and I do want to encourage people if they're Thinking about nominating their own property that to do so because I know sometimes people are a little bit shy about Tutting their own horn, but this is a chance to really bring attention to some good projects to inspire others too To also preserve their buildings and landscapes. Well, we're going to have to go But I think it sounds really exciting and I hope people will you know, listen to this and submit Applications because it's it's it's really important to the longevity of our city and the beauty of it. Thank you. Thank you very much


I'm in the microbial ecology and water engineering specialist group of the International Water Association and our goal is to promote rational design and effective engineering of open microbial systems for the purposes of water engineering. Now what we try to do is try to connect researchers with expertise in microbiology and ecology with engineers and expertise in design of water engineering systems to try to bring them together to target some of the pressing challenges we have in the future. So one of the most exciting developments that happened over the last decade is things like DNA sequencing have become extremely inexpensive and the tools and the methods that we use to analyze them have become accessible. So for instance we can use DNA sequencing to try to understand whether specific microorganisms that help us deal with nitrogen pollution are present in the bioreactor that we are designing to remove nitrogen pollutants. On the other hand we are also trying to understand the safety of drinking water where we would have to wait for two to four days to understand whether there are pathogens in our drinking water supply. Some of these methods are now allowing us to do real-time monitoring of drinking water microorganisms. There is a lot going on in this exciting field and we are drawing from diverse disciplines from computer sciences to microbiology and integrating that water engineering.


In this module, we will be talking about the dynamics of evolution within complex systems. We will firstly define what we mean by the term, then look at its basic functioning by discussing each stage in the process, and finally talk about evolution with respect to the development of complexity. A quick note before we begin. The concept of evolution has a strong association with its application in biology. Biology theory, though, deals with the concept on a slightly more abstract level as it applies to all complex adaptive systems from the development of civilizations to financial markets, cultures, and technologies. As such, we are trying to understand evolution as a continuous and pervasive phenomena that occurs in all types of natural, social, and engineered systems. Evolution is really the same thing as adaptation, except that it operates on a different scale. Adaptation is an element's capacity to generate a response to some change within its environment. It is a micro or local level phenomena. Evolution then is the same process but operating on a macro scale, that is to say on the level of a population of agents, and here again it is the capacity for the system to respond to changes within its environment. Evolution is the adaptive response of a group of entities that occurs over a period of many life cycles. Evolutionary changes reflect the response of the collection of agents to their environment. We will now present the basic framework to the theory of evolution as posited by systems theory and complexity theory, and then afterwards go over this in more detail with examples. Firstly, a system exists within an environment and that environment changes periodically. For the system to endure, it must be able to generate the appropriate response to these environmental perturbations. Secondly, generating the appropriate response means selecting from a variety of different internal states or strategies and thus the system needs to maintain and be able to generate a certain degree of variety. Thirdly, that variety is not for free. It costs the system something to maintain and thus it must select from these variants the most appropriate responses for that environment in order to minimize this cost while maximizing the payoff to the system as a whole. Lastly, these variants that have proven most appropriate for responding to changes within that particular environment will then be selected for replication in order to be more prevalent within the system during its next life cycle, thus achieving the ultimate goal of altering the entire system to make it better suited to that environment. Our first statement that a system needs to be able to generate an appropriate response to any change from its environment in order for it to endure can be described by the theory of homeostasis, that all systems require a certain state to their environment in order to operate and they need to somehow maintain that set of input values for their environment or else they will cease to properly function when it changes.  The environment has changed and if I can't generate the appropriate response, then I am in trouble. So this is not so much a statement of how evolution works, but more a statement of why we need evolution. Put very simply, it is because environments change. If we can't change with them, we will get wiped out and evolution is the only way to prevent this. Secondly, that the system needs to maintain a certain level of variety from which it can select the appropriate response given any environmental change. This is the so-called law of requisite variety, that a system needs sufficient variety of states to respond to the variety within its environment. For example, the human immune system needs to have the right type of antibodies to neutralize an invader. The immune system does this by simply producing an astronomical variety of different antibody shapes so that it will have the appropriate response when needed. In general, this requisite variety may be created by randomness, as in the random deformation of DNA or cross-mixing such as sexual reproduction, but also may be purposefully generated, as would be the case for an R&D lab. Thirdly, selection. The most appropriate responses to the given state of the environment are selected, because diversity typically has some cost associated with it, and thus we can only maintain a limited amount of it. I may want to be appropriately dressed for any given weather condition, but I can't bring my whole wardrobe with me. Each item I take will have a carrying cost associated with it. Thus, I must perform selection upon the variety of clothing I have based upon an assessment of the environment's state. Biological evolution by means of natural selection is another example. There is a limited amount of resources within any ecosystem. Selection takes place as a result of the competition among the members of a population for resources, and this helps by working to ensure that only those that are so-called fit for that environment will endure. In this way, the system can adjust its internal configuration to external perturbations while minimizing the cost of diversity and changes to its overall organization. Lastly, replication. Unlike adaptation, which is an immediate process operation on the level of an individual, evolution, as mentioned, works instead on the level of population of agents. It doesn't operate immediately, but plays out over the course of several life cycles to the population. Elements that have proven to be functional within that environment during their life cycle are selected for replication, thus increasing the percentage of their representation within the future population in order for the overall system to exhibit more of their desired characteristics. With this process of evolution, a system can, through its iteration over a prolonged period of time, go from starting simple to becoming more complex through the retention of functional variants. In so doing, expand to become capable of operating within broader, more complex environments. Continuing on with our example of the immune system, the immature immune system of a newborn child is dependent upon its mother to produce and provide it with antibodies in order to fend off invaders. As it grows and comes in contact with new antigens, naturally or through vaccines, it develops its own antibodies and retains copies that have proven successful for future application. Thus, building up a catalog of successful antibodies that can provide it with the requisite variety to maintain its physiological homeostasis within more threatening environments. When a system has requisite variety, then it can be said to have control over itself within that particular environment. But of course, there is always a broader environment that will present the system with a wider, more complex set of eventualities for it to deal with. As the system evolves, it retains the appropriate responses for a given perturbation until it has accumulated the requisite variety for a given environment and then it can expand into a broader one, where again it will have to generate more variety in order to deal with a new set of perturbations. Now that we have come to understand this dynamic of evolution, it is increasingly being used as an optimization algorithm in many areas. For example, computer scientists create programs or formulas that compete against one another to solve a problem, the winners being rewarded with offspring in the next generation that then compete again. Over a series of generations, one can use this process to evolve optimal solutions to difficult problems. The resulting method, under the name genetic algorithms, has become a widely used optimization method and a tool for complex systems researchers. Genetic algorithms are good at taking a very large search space and looking for optimal solutions through iteration. In summary, we have been talking about the basic dynamics to the process of evolution, which we defined as essentially the same process as adaptation, the capacity for a system to respond to changes within its environment. But this time, operating on the level of a population of agents, we itemized the basic elements to this process as consisting of the generation of variety through random events and cross-mixing. Selection upon this set of variants according to their degree of functionality within a particular environment and lastly, replication in order to increase the proportion of elements exhibiting this required capability. In this way, a system on the macro scale can reconfigure itself to respond to the input of an environmental change and stay adapting for a prolonged period of time.