Hello, hello, everybody. How you doing out there? Ah, thank you everybody who's coming in early here today. It is Monday. And this is our regularly scheduled time for your favorite live retro show in the mornings. And that is the bunker. The newest sensation to arrive to YouTube. All right, guys, I'm going to start off with some wonderful shout outs here to the early arrivers. First off, mega cards and then Akiyama Ricky. Thank you for coming. The Legged one. Thank you for being here. Brian Harman. Thank you as always for coming. Sorin Lyon. Thank you for coming to your first live show. That's great. Hope you enjoy it. Zero sleep. Hello. Self-elected. Hello over clockwise. Hello. And my good friend, Delusionals Arcade AKA Dell. Thank you for showing up here today. I appreciate you being here. That's awesome. All right, guys, I have an agenda here. First off, no, the show is not daily. The show is normally Mondays and Thursdays. It's pretty fresh. It's pretty new. Just started it. We're up to episode four, I believe. I kind of got myself confused. Let me see what we are at. Number four, right? Yes. So we are up to number four because I had a number zero and I'm constantly forgetting what exactly I've been doing and the numbering. So it's kind of I've confused myself more than anybody else. But the show is called The Bunker twice a week where we get into all kinds of retro stuff and we do have some reoccurring segments. And I have an agenda, as I said before, with those segments. But first off, if you are here, please do me a gigantic favor. And that is hit the like button if you're able to, because that really does help the push and reach of the show. Of course, we're here in the middle of the day. So it's difficult enough to get people fired up on a Monday morning about things. So we're going to try to bring some fun and good things to your Monday. And if you could just please drop that like for me if it's possible. And if you're the kind of person who shares stuff, that's cool too. But I said this before in the last episode, every time somebody clicks the like button, that translates into about nine or 10 additional views. And on a live show like this that's brand new, it is really helpful. So I'm sorry to sit there and kind of plug that a little bit. But that's the truth. And that's the beast we are all working with here on YouTube. So first off, I wanted to give a special shout out to the show sponsor. And that's all of you lovely folks over there on the Retro Tech page, Patreon page and supporters of the show there. You guys are great and gals. I love helping and working with you on all your CRT issues, sharing things on the discord and things like that. So I appreciate your constant support and your obvious sponsorship of this show for the time being. And today, we have again, as I said, some reoccurring segments. So as the crowd starts to show up, we're going to get into some of these segments. And the first thing I kind of wanted to go over this morning was to adjust my turn that jazz down a little bit. First off, before I get too too far into things, let me show you the CRT. Okay. Oh, yes. So if you're at work, I love seeing you here too. If you're actually supposed to be working and you're hanging out watching this, that's really cool. Snuffer stuff or sorry, you know, it's a small price to pay. Alright, this is our lovely CRT spoiler alert. It is in s video mode right now. And it's glorious.  And something like today's modification is so, so simple that if I ever, I mean, if you're ever restoring one of these sets, it's almost absolutely so easy to install the s video mod that if you have the parts available, you might as well do it. So again, this model is the Sony kv8 ad 12. And so that's the main thing we're going to be going over. And that's our big star for the show. Okay, it's going to be running here. It's got what we call the best worst console in the world attached to it in its native s video format. And so there we go in 64 baby. All right. Well, shows been rolling here for about seven minutes. I know the audio is good. I know everything seems to be working right. And it seems to be a great time to transition into our first segment of the day, returning by your popular request and demand. It's time. It's time, everybody. That's right.  So as many you know, I have acquired quite the collection of dad jokes here in my lap. And I'm going to go through a couple of them with you. And I think for today's inaugural issue, or official starting, we're going to go through and maybe do six of them. This seems like a good number six. Okay. First up. Did you hear? Did you hear the joke about paper? It's terrible. Thank you, folks. I just need like a drum roll.  Did you hear? Did you hear about the restaurant on the moon? Great food, but no atmosphere. Oh, I can almost hear the crickets out there. Or maybe it's the crickets that are down here in the bunker basement with me. I don't know. Thank you, folks. Have I run off the whole audience yet? This is either the best or the worst segment in the history of live shows. Now, why? Why can't you have a nose 12 inches long? Because then it would be a foot. Get it? A foot? Of course you get it. You're in a brilliant audience out there today.  And look, this one's awful. Okay, this one's probably the worst one. But I told the one under it first last time. So I guess because pterodactyl has a P in the front of it. So can't even get that joke.  Alright, our last category is what? What? What did the Buddhists say to the hot dog vendor? Make me one with everything? Well, the Zen Dylan, I'm reading it. And that boy, I'm reading it too. But guess what? That doesn't mean I have to stop my lovely agenda to get to your chat. My goodness. If you want that, you have to do the normal thing and throw a dollar in there or something, right? Isn't that what it's called? Super chat? What do lawyers wear to the court? Lawsuits. But I'm bomb. That's it, folks. Thank you very much. You have survived today's dad jokes. And so let me know what you think. Lovely way to start off today's episode, right?  Peace be to you. I don't know if I honestly don't even know the chats really for you guys to talk amongst yourself. And I'll check in with you to absolutely. And there are episodes of times when we will do chats and questions and answers. But that's not on the agenda today. All right, folks. So that that gets us through part one. And we're going to jump on over here. And I want to do a follow up. So in case you lived under a rock, I'm sure if you've been watching the channel, you know, the right here, the most recent one was this one, the reflex RF adapter, right there, the reflex RF adapter. I want to do a little bit of a follow up on that I had some interesting questions and comments about it. So here's the deal. This is what the final product looks like that, like this. I know I didn't really reiterate that in my in my review video. I just showed my prototype here, which has a hard, you know, printed case. But this is not the finalized case. This was an adapter. It was actually sent to me a few months ago. So that's what I've got here is the adapter. But the case won't look like this, obviously. Okay. And if you are, look, I don't I'm not getting anything for also for you guys. If you just so you know, I don't get like any deal with him on this. I just think it's a cool product. There's obviously other ways you could do this. If you have a solution already, obviously, you're set. But if you're looking for a solution and a device that's small, you may want to go in here and get the email notification because I know he said that he had told me that he's a couple of weeks away from receiving a final shipment of like the first round of units. And once those come in and pass, you know, his checks and balances right there, they'll be available and the people on the email list will get the first notification and I'm sure once they're gone, they'll be gone for a little while. Okay. So again, this is a it's a really convenient, effective way to get this RF out of this composite audio or composite video and audio that stereo. Okay. And so that's it the reflex adapter. If we have some extra time here today, I may like I did I did plan to possibly open this thing and show you what it looks like on the inside because I didn't open it up on the video. So that may be fun. So if if people are interested in seeing more of that, let me know I'm telling you right now. The things that I can't do is I can't read the chat when I'm actually talking about things and actually reading stuff here. So again, if you have a question, I'll get to it, but I can't I can't do it right now. Right here. If you need something like this and again, if you want me to I can open this up. But again, let's go through the official Sony first. Yeah, I think it's something that if if you have like a TV already or a desire to somehow incorporate an RF TV, I will tell you this thing is really handy with something like I used in my video, which was with this. Because this you have to send in a signal in a very odd manner.  Where is it? This little adapter here. And then it plugs in to the back antenna. And it gives you a coaxial input on these old portable TVs like the Watchmen series. And that is how you get a coaxial in here. And then you could send in. And it's really only you know, this is only novelty stuff, right? But you could send in your RF or you can send in your composite video and audio through there and it converts it to RF out the back and you plug that in there. And that's and then it and then you just tune this to channel three or four and it works like flawlessly. That's how it works in the demo video. That's a really cool thing if you just have those like to play with Watchmen's for some reason. And I don't know. Yeah, some of the sets will be super clear with the RF tuners that are built into them. It's because like that's all the state the signal they were working with back then so they're best to make it look really, really nice. So it's just if you really want that, it's a good option. And anyway, let's go now to our main event here folks. I've put it off for 15 minutes. We'll go ahead and get into it. And a grail. Hey, Don Honk. Yeah, it's it's that's a thing as if you were able to get one of these kind of things back in the day from Radio Shack, those words are going to be good. But we're talking about now, there's not really a place making them new. So it's much easier to go order this when it comes in and get it shipped to you. And you know, it's going to work. It's going to be designed specifically with game ring in mind. And there's sorry, I was looking at the chat to see what that guy was asking about something about transformers, non uniform transformers. No, I mean, you just got to keep with the transformer that you got in your TV, try to find a replacement by scalping another TV, I guess it's really are you know, taking the parts from it.  Sorry about that, folks. Anyway, that's enough about the reflex. You want me to we have time later on, we'll get through that we're going to switch over. We're going to jump into our main event. And that is on our Sony kv folks I told you this one. I actually went over this weekend, I had the extra time. And this old job took about eight hours right at eight hours. And it took me that long to get this torn down, do all the restoration on the boards, clean everything, install the modification, put it all back together, test it and be to this point. It's a lot of labor really. But it's worth it. And I'm going to show you the things I found here. But this is the set now, it's just been running here perfectly. And we'll get to look at it a little closer here. In a second. Again, this is a Sony kv8 ad 12. And we're going to always start where we should. That's with the documentation on this, we're going to flip over here and look at the CRT database. Okay, so if you need to find out more about this television, you can find it on the CRT database. That's where I've referenced everything for this work. Today, it has the service manual. It has some very good tips here about how it works, adjustments and some special notes. The first things you can note about this TV is it has the 250 TV line tube that is in the Sony PVM model 8041 8042 8040 8043s. So that's that's really nice. It's got a really nice tube. So if you had one of these that was busted, you can maybe keep it for the tube. And if you had, if you have one, you can tell you get a good image from 250 line to resolution to that this is this small, the S video mod is documented here. It's pretty simple. But there's not a lot, you know, documented here for it. It's just you're soldering in a point here and a point here and a point here. But make sure I can go back there. There's a little bit of directions, you can upgrade this chassis with this video simply connect your Luma signal to the input pin for composite video and connect your ground to composite and then connect for the chroma chroma is this spot over here. That's so you're basically just robbing chroma from here, you're injecting chroma there. You're injecting Luma right here into the composite video. And that's where syncs going on. And then over here is just a ground point. Okay, thank you, girl. Okay, so that's the next explanation and how this mod works. There's no OSD on here. So you don't have to do anything with the with the OSD. You literally just inject the S video video. And it overrides and just shoots it straight into the TV. And so on the video input, it just acts like it's got composite on. So as long as you have the input put, as long as the video, I'm sorry about that folks, that's the wrong one. As long as you have the TV set here, where you have, you know, like the video on, it's thinking it's in. It's just getting the video in but you don't have to do anything else with it. All right, so there's no like, it's pretty basic television inside as far as logic, there's no, actually no OSD in this one, which is probably why you can't do the RGB modification to it. It's all manipulated manually. So if we get back here to the dashboard, let's look at my file of photographs from the one I worked on. And I did a live stream. Hey, Belmont, how you doing? Good to see you today. Hope you're, hope you're doing all right.   Unfortunately, huh? Sorry to hear about that. Thank you for stopping in. So the first thing I did, I did have a stream where I went through and I worked service the power supply on here. That was the last episode of the bunker. So that's the Thursday show. Now it doesn't remove the ability to do composite. If we just don't put composite in or if we just don't have as video going in, the composite will just work like it does normally. Okay. So this is the neck board. Very basic neck board. There are the key elements. You have potentiometers up here that allow you to make adjustments to your colors. That's what all those are. That's the back side of the board. I removed all this shielding and plastic and clean and reflow the solder on this board. And that's just another image of that board right there. Cleaned. This is way cleaner. Sony left a bunch of flux residue on these boards. It's kind of nasty. But that's it. There's no if we go back and look at the front of that board. There's actually no components that wear out really on it. Now if you had a problem with your color on this, you could check these resistors right here. One will be for each color line right here. One of these big resistors. But there's no capacitors here. The biggest issue on with this board is solder and solder quality and how it breaks down over time. And this one is a 30 year old television. Okay. So those are the rest of the boards all pulled. It's kind of bundled together. And hey, McGeek crisis. Thanks for coming in. TR 24. You know the TR 24. I can't remember which one. Which one that is because I've done a couple other mods to that 13 inch. I don't know if it's the two might be the TR 24 was one of the ones I actually modified before. And it might be able to do RGB. I do believe it talks about that over here on the website. A little bit before. So you may want to check out the CRT database and see what it says about that model. A 65. All right. So this is the whole board and it's like this. This little TV all packs out into this one board down here. That's the major board with your deflection and and power. Also down there. This is like power areas and deflection starts over here under this weird heat sinks. And this is all jammed right under the back of the television is transformer. And I went through and I found all the bad capacitors. Yeah. That's a white kitchen one. Oh yes. Okay. No. No. Actually that one you're right. That one can be as video modified. And you know what that one might be. I think I was told that that one's as video modified and that one will knock out the composite video on it if you do it. But there is information about the TV. I actually have that one. That's the one I've not modified. Thank you. Okay. Because the other ones were black that were the 13 inch that actually do let you have RGB in them. All right. So the bad capacitors were marked up here. Most of them were right against this heat sink and then around this transformer. These other capacitors are super nice 105 degree high quality caps that were reading super low on the ESR meter. That one's not but I replaced this one. This was a 70 or 85 degree but it got replaced. You'll see those power caps are super good on there. And this is what it looked like. I did have to get this was kind of a pain. I did have to get under here and remove all these caps under that and then reinstall them that that yeah. Samuel finally finally asked video mod for you. So we're making it through the restoration process first. Here's just a couple of pictures of this board again. These other caps are in these areas that weren't removed are really low microfarads. 28. That's it. The 28 is the one that you can do. Thank you zero sleep. But the ones that are left in here are 50 volt one microfarads and read really low in the ESR meter so they're not bad at all. Same thing with these. This is not capacitor juice. That's leftover flux residue from the plant installation. I will show you some capacitor juice here in a second but that's what it looks like with those capacitors removed on the other side of that heat sink. This is the spot so this is the horizontal width coil and you literally have to stick a tool down in that coil down in that point right there and spin it to get horizontal size adjusted but you only want to do that with a plastic tool and I think it's even got to be a six point tool or something. It's not a normal screwdriver or you'll break it and you don't want to break it then you'll lose your horizontal size and it'll get all bad. Okay so if your horizontal size is good just don't even mess with this thing. But you will notice down here we do have a bunch of nasty stuff. What had happened down here is this capacitor C I can't remember it's eight one nine I believe had some leakage can tell right here by that positive sign but the real bad one was on the other side of this heat shielding right here and there's only one visible hole here. This one had spewed its guts all over these jumpers. Thankfully they were just jumpers and it didn't really hurt them I just had to clean them and in this little this is a diode right here you have diode and that had exploded down there and that's the backside of the board where I removed all that stuff and if you see yellow residue there that's that's how Sony would leave it like all that nasty residue that flux residue so hope you guys are doing well again if you're here today I really appreciate it I know the show started a bit goofy I must have made some people upset sorry about that I'm literally just having fun and uh appreciate it if you do me a favor again if you haven't already hit the like button sorry snuffer stuff right now you did if you haven't already hit the like button I will let some more people know that we're live here today on the bunker and that we're finally into the meat and potatoes of this great thank you good looks like people are really having some help from some of this stuff so guys the point here when your service in this TV and things like this you'll run into Sony products that look like there's a lot these double-sided boards I will warn you you need to work with extremely low temperatures good solder that's melts at low solder melting right okay because uh it doesn't take much heat to vaporize these traces we have to be very careful and I would recommend if you have to if you really have to do it you can uh you can go through and take the extra time to melt a little bit dab of fresh solder on these before you remove any of these capacitors and it will be helpful because you really want to preserve this board as much as possible because there's a lot of traces you just don't want to break something and lose continuity and have trouble later as it's a bear to put these things back together the other thing you need to do is just look for solder there are some points in here that you'll want to reflow solder on I'll show you what I did at the end uh but you know the most important thing is to maintain the integrity of your traces and your holes and to not knock any of the adjacent parts off okay right hey Ronnie thank you for being here thank you just Samuel G and um let's move on to our next photograph here so these are all the capacitors on the main board that tested bad that were removed and changed now I believe let me see what I have here in my file fortunately I don't know that I have many other photos before I get too much into that let's look at this oh there's some more the all right guys so I did a really poor job of photographing the after the after pictures here for the capacitor it reinstalled but that's all the capacitors I've zoomed in here and they're installed you can tell that one's completely different it's red and there's a couple of different brands in there and when it comes to capacitors it's okay to go up on the voltage sometimes I do that I'll go up on the voltage and it's okay to go up on the temperature rating things like that it's just not okay to change that micro farad rating generally so keep that same um you know keep that same rating for your capacitor so can actually do what it's supposed to do but you can increase the voltage just don't decrease the voltage all right so this is going to be the s video modification part and the one one thing I did so I had all right here's what we got sorry guys I did a couple things here I found this old board uh that came with some type of a kit hey mark thanks for showing up today yeah you guys love my cameras come on this I have a better camera and it crashes the system and I'm a terrified to plug it in now one good camera one mediocre camera that's what we have today all right the uh the board though it's a breakout board and I was thinking how can I make this job clean and easy because I did have to cut a hole so this little board was really handy again I just found it from a prototype kit and you just stick an s video adapter into it and you can solder into it uh on this side you solder and it's it's just cleanly I'll show you what it looks like here in a second but the first thing I did was I salvaged an old connector for three pin and a three pin cable that I had from an old pvm I just salvaged that little jumper cable and then this little junction off the board and I fit it I was like yeah that'll slip in there and make it oh photography yeah okay I would but this was all salvaged parts this was nothing I ordered this came off the board it's a three pin connector with the three pin cable from a busted salvaged circuit board I desoldered it I resoldered it in to this board and then uh before I get into that part I'll show you I'll show you what else I did with it I I then to that board that that was a really short cable that junction cable so I stole another junction off the board where it went into on this side the three pin and then I used that as my point here on my solid cables that went in for the modification so there's the modification cables right there they come out to this other breakout point and that is how I got hey Tony yes you're here thank you good for your hard work too getting out of surgery so this is the little breakout cable I salvaged and used and that was just to make it easier when I was putting all this together and cleanly putting this together now there's that side there it is ready obviously the only thing I could solder in was that cable I have to wait to solder in the s-video port and this is super tight okay there was not really any clearance and there wasn't even clearance after I installed this initially when I tried to put it back together we explained some more what I had to do is this s-video mount right here it is slightly over three eighths of an inch I mean slightly over three eighths of an inch I don't even know it might be the next millimeter measurement up whatever's above that uh so what I did was I I didn't even drill a hole with this is some of the secrets you guys need to learn if you're going to do something like this and you want to not destroy the plastic the plastic is fragile okay the plastic is fragile so if this is my drill bit and I go and I turn on my drill with power even low power it's going to come in here and jump and it's going to start going so fast it'll melt the plastic and it'll even sometimes hit something crack it could jump in that plastic the secret is to simply take the drill bit itself and use it and your hand to drill the hole you put slight pressure against the back of that case okay sorry you spit you know you're coming in you set your point on the hole and again you it has to be somewhere in this exact spot to fit between the neck board and then the base mount and then the sideboards you have very little clearance it's got to be pretty much right on there almost intersecting that arrow okay and what you do is you come in and you drill your hole by hand you slowly hood take your time and just drill by hand okay drill by hand you just spin your drill your three eighths inch drill bit by hand and slowly carve out that plastic okay and then you still don't you're not going to get enough clearance to squeeze this thing in so after that after that you take whatever method you're best at I used an exacto knife and went in and cleaned up those edges that I couldn't get past the drill bit with and then enlarged enlarge that hole more so that I could fit that in you see how it has a little bit of a jagged look right there okay and what that allowed me to do was I was able to get that hole basically perfectly rounded even though it looks like a little jagged there and it was like slightly slightly smaller than this the actual s video plug here and so I had to spend like 10 minutes slowly slowly pushing this input into the back of this plastic because it was so tight I did not want to make the hole any larger on any side it was perfectly I was like and I knew if I got it in and just got it through it doesn't slip at all like you have to push it in hard it doesn't even it's like it's like the right perfect size to where it doesn't need any adhesive now I am going to put a single drop of of sorry glue in there to hold it but it is so snug I'm telling you it came out perfectly and the good thing is that I didn't glue it and I'll explain that because I did need to push it out like I had to push the thing out like a millimeter for clearance let reasons so I got this all together I soldered in the breakout board right there and I know it looks like I'm zooming in so close I know it looks like there's a bridge on there but it's not okay that's cleaned up that's what it looks like in the back and the other thing I had to do guys I had to come in here afterwards I didn't actually get a picture of it but I had to take an extra pair of snips um flush cutters okay I had to take these flush cutters and this often happens on these prototype designs but if you see this whole area I'm going to outline it with my uh with my cursor okay like if I go in that's as close as I can go so I had to actually take my flush cutters and I had to trim this board down around all this extra uh area of the the board itself like the fiberglass I believe that's what it is I had to snip it on this side on the bottom and this side to just shave it down and then you know you you file the side a little bit so it would fit in the in the crt because even that was too big by itself so I had to trim all that extra away uh so even the end desired result it's still integral and working good because all the traces are coming up here in the middle and everything like the grounds are all looped on this one and then they tee up into the middle where it says g and d there so that was just another little trick I had to do but that's what it looks like you could then the good thing is is I could just remove that cable and now this is what it looks like if you ever have to remove the shell yeah I was wondering too I just didn't want to burn the plastic my other idea stuffer stuffer thank you for saying that was to actually go in and use a heat uh a hot air gun and maybe heat up that plastic to make it a little malleable push it in and then let it cool um but I really hate stress and plastic more than you have to awesome yes mid greek mid greek crisis uh pcb way for an atari x 108 800 xl project gives a pcb to add s video jack that's awesome yeah that's I thought this little thing looked great and I believe that that's where I gotta got this was not from that because I don't have the 800 but I believe it was a different atari project from a long time ago where you could ask add s video and I bought a few of the extra boards because I liked them like the port uh board like that so looked for atari 800 xl s video port adapter that's the tips yeah sorry I know youtube is funny about sharing links so there we are we've got the s video installed and this is the other end of the cord right that's all it is you unplug it there and you plug it in here and I had to make this breakout here is just giving me some fair space you could see I've the good thing is is that has hard pins right there I just connected our um cabling in there and heat shrink use some heat shrink tubing on there and then I have a double breakout point okay for the modification this was how I determined which was the chroma and luma and ground is in the middle yeah it would have been uh I wanted to have this like this and try it del I did I did but it was one of this is really like a holly it doesn't really fit so I did trim it down but thankfully it didn't really cause the issues you know after you get the job done you're like man I don't really want to redo it if it would have not fit at all I would have redone it uh but that's a closer look at that point of access and this is the actual modification and boom I've busted myself I've actually using hot glue here okay and sorry talk about cable strain relief there's my cable strain relief you see my big dab of hot glue right there that's for the chroma line okay so you're gonna get the chroma line right off here it's hard to see I can't remember what the exact point is here but I remember when I was looking on this board I looked for this which was R232 this resistor is R232 that I'm highlighting with my cursor and if you come down and you come over to this little capacitor here and there's a point a little pad where a bunch of other like another capacitor comes in there's a there's a spot on there and that's what you're sticking to right there for chroma chroma comes out there raw chroma or you can inject raw chroma there okay and then that's got some strain relief right there and then same thing up here I put a dab hot glue to strain relief all right and look if we go up here this is so this point is our composite video input and this point's just a ground so we have to have ground chroma and then we're using luma I mean we're injecting luma through our composite video in which is interesting right so we're just injecting raw luma with no color into the composite that's really how this mods tricking and working you understand because it's a very it's a very simple like basic modification you're basically just sending from your s-video device you're sending straight luma which is the absence of color right it's the brightness the gray scale and your sync information that's all coming down the composite line and then you're passing all the composite stuff and you're going in and you're injecting your straight chroma in and that's how you're going to get the better that's right inject that raw chroma right in your veins thank you Edgar pause I hope so corpse one thank you for showing up so that's really in I believe the most what do we want to say layman's terms how this mod works like what it is because it's not extensive there's no logic being involved you don't even have to have any kind of like the signal could come in straight from your device you don't even have to do anything to tune it or add any kind of uh resistors or anything for this specific modification it all just works okay so that's the bottom side of the board and that's probably the only picture I have the bottom side of the board but you can tell remember how nasty it looked before I serviced it I don't know why I didn't take more pictures the bottom side of this board I did have to reflow solder on a lot of points these big points here where there were the connections all the transformers the flyback transformer anything that looks dodgy the inputs anything there would be strain relief on two or to add I'm sorry where there would be strain like if you insert a rca cable it's going to put strain on that joint on that weld so all that's reflowed yeah this is a real simple one so I'm telling you the most the trickiest part about this is taking your time and not damaging things another thing that took a lot of time was actually disassembling and reassembling this little this little tv it was very difficult to get all that stuff kind of out and in a compact space right and you don't want to accidentally knock something and damage it that's the most stressful part is doing all that at once so we're going to take a quicker look uh we're almost through all these pictures I believe let's let's see what we have left and there's a closer look oh good look at that I got this beautiful higher resolution that you can actually read so this is the point of entry that's my weld look at that this is about the clearest picture I ever had available for you guys um but there's that r232 I was telling you about see how you go there and it makes this like z right angle turn and then you have this pad with nothing on this point right here the other side it's this bottom side of this l201 inductor see that I believe that's the point right there l201 the bottom side of that close to this 218 marking and that's where you're going to send in the raw chroma and there's my gloop yeah and then guys this is the perfectly appropriate amount and spot and everything to use this because if you ever wanted to get rid of this mod you could just undo it peel this glue off and it's not even on a trace there's nothing it's not going to have any effect on it okay very little amount and uh it's just meant to hold that cable so if you pull on this part of the cable then it won't go boom and first just put all the stress on this weld and rip it that's really the point and there's a closer look at the other welds okay and here we have some finished pictures of uh how this all looks okay it worked right away I just plugged it in plugged in the s video and it works and there it is all reassembled you could tell there's a lot there's a big compact design here but this is the a20 that's the same tube from those pvms it's a good question about the yokes I'm not sure that the yokes are the same I would imagine they're pretty pretty similar if not exactly the same I should have thought about that I should have well I've got the part number thank goodness clear as day right there there's the yoke part number so I can reference that see if that matches so there's my little cable see how there it is coming out of there the mod cable see it goes up there following my cursor until my breakout point number one and then off into the back of that board right there where I'm sending in straight s video on the back of that shell and there it is revenge hey from Denmark thank you shorter I'm sorry if I said that wrong I said it terribly wrong probably Steinholm thank you you've stopped it in today I know I saw you here in the last episode I appreciate you coming back all right there's my hot glue gun busted guys totally busted and that's pretty much all there is to this modification like I said I did end up trying to trim that board down oh yeah over clockwise now here my wheelhouse they did absolutely always have the very best wrestling games so that's it for the photographs in this file that's all of them and Tony who was here I don't know if he still is it's actually his it's actually his tv which is pretty awesome so he's uh he's gonna get it um he's gonna get it back soon and gets enjoy it all right so this is the tv right here uh the remote works fine like no problems right see volume works fine you just plug that in the same spot you just plug that into this the audio works same as if it was video rca okay so let me turn this around for you now and we'll look at the back of this because that's pretty interesting so there's the s video input just right there that's really all there is to it tv cleaned up nicely it's been running awesome like absolutely no issues with it it does add obviously sharpness to the picture and you know it's just it's just fun to do this with a little tv now i'm not going to make you know i'm not going to make you think this is going to look as good as the pvms because it won't it just doesn't have the same amount of hardware inside to give you the same kind of image so the geometry is not going to be as good the color is really good but the geometry won't be as good as like the pvm or pvm color will be close but not all the way there the sharpness will be pretty close to the same and the deflection is not going to be the same you're not going to get as good of a deflection on this either so anyway very fun stuff cool little mod i don't know if anybody has any questions about it someone's asked if i can add a vga port to a tube tv i mean you could add a vga port depending on like you could make a s video style for vga if you wanted to use the vga style input uh if you want to use that for rgb you can too if the tv say rgb capable brandon at least some people are still telling the dad jokes i don't know the dad joke cold dad joke segment might have fallen flat today i think some people were like oof they must have been some bad ones today the dad jokes let's see overall it's pretty good you know it's really bright the image is super bright pretty much got to turn it down a lot uh so i noticed about these old tvs sometimes and then it i've got a contrast turned down a lot so you can see it better on here but you can see a little bit of that wonkiness you're not going to collect that or correct that you know you're not going to get that perfect on these older sets they're going to be more susceptible to um corner stuff yeah just go back to the beginning it was the very beginning segment brandon that is the whole point of dad jokes is to cringe that's literally what it says in the book cringy cringy dad jokes fun little mod guys so if you if you come across one of these tvs and want to have a project for the weekend that's how long it took me about eight hours to do it now that's again including the whole restoration if you're just doing the modification then you don't find any bad capacitors in your tv you can get this done in like an hour and a half there we go here we go grail's hobby's jumping into what's another name for computer virus a terminal illness there we go yeah baby all right guys so there's the uh there's the kv um i probably won't write up anything else about this i doubt i'll have a video coming on this specific one i think these two streams have kind of covered this thing very well i do want to say a huge thank you again to uh andy king and you know this crt database having this documentation here is amazing right it's so much easier to come in google your tv have this database show up it gives you these tips on how to adjust it and be careful you know all these specs on the tube you've got pictures of the set what it looks like inside and then you actually have the the linked service manual and i know there's other places that are really good for this too like uh the uh the wiki crt wiki but uh this wasn't what i used for this one because it had just all the stuff in one spot s video mod so if you do have uh if you do have different tv's he's got all kinds of different tv's on here there we go and by brands lots of them lots of different um models let's take a look for that sony i know i know that one is the one that you can't tr 28 see it's not here because there's not a good mod for it is it 13 tr 24 was the one we were looking for right no i don't think that uh like this is a community effort there's a lot of people that put into these kind of things like the information it's kind of like what i do anytime i work on stuff i put in certain information he just does it differently his is probably better off as far as like a database is concerned then um and so i mean the fact that he's got all this here kind of takes a lot of stress off me and other people trying to put these things together hey most seven seven thank you for the super chat i appreciate it sony kv 34 xbr 910 wine screen has awful screen blemishes does that have an anti-glare layer that can be peeled her breast so can be used to remove as well thanks to advance you know uh there's not let's let's look up that one i wonder if there's anything here about that specific crt the 34 xbr some that's harder some of these models which starts to get into them are not as well documented um i don't know off the top of my head if it has blemishes the problem is if it if you for sure like if it looks like it's got blemishes it will have uh it's hard to get certain types of blemishes into a tube right so if there's things uh like bubbling and other weird stuff like um peeling looking things or something in the screen the only thing the screen should ever really be susceptible to that would be permanent if it's not if it's just glass would be a scratch so if it just scratches that's that's a sign that if it's just like scratches it's probably just glass but if there's this weird like chemical thing going on then there might be a tube layer on that particular one um you may it's it's not going to be clearly stated really anywhere i don't feel like even uh sony did a great job with documenting that on the other uh monitors that have layers sometimes it mentions him sometimes it doesn't say anything about certain stuff like that and that was going to be kind of one of the things i was going to talk a little bit about later on in the next official segment that was going to finish the show today but my advice to you if it looks something like it has sorry about that if it looks like it has some kind of chemical thing going on like a bubbling or a peeling effect it probably does have a layer and man this is going to be a difficult one because it's such a large tube but you're going to have to remove that whole tube from the shell unfortunately to get in there and peel it out properly because you can't just like go in and start wiping it with chemicals if you do that it's just going to get worse uh because there's the chemical overlay or the if it does have an overlay you have to be very careful and what you put on that overlay that can damage the overlay and that's what i mean if you have like blemishes in it it might be from some kind of cleaning material i hope that was helpful i appreciate your super chat a lot i really do how do crts have good black levels when the shadow mask is usually like gray well it's you know that's all depending on the i feel like colors and look of your background in your room and your let's see like your your your lighting element right because if a tube's dark or gray if you're in a black room you're not going to be able to tell um the lighter colored tubes are meant for a darker environment okay and that's so that you can get a crisper whoops i'm sorry about that a crisper look at your screen and in the darker tubes are meant for more environments that will have more ambient lighting so that they appear darker and you get a darker level of things i hope that's helpful hey steve have you ever heard of low brightness and image quality from not too high g2 voltage but wrong dc bias on the anode or something oh man i have no idea that sounds like something very difficult um yeah you're getting to those points where you may want to try and see if you can test your tube mcmoofen that's the kind of things like if you know your tube's good then that just might you know and you're it's hard to test a flyback i don't have any tooling to test flybacks i believe andy king may have a flyback tester uh maybe i can have him on here and talk about it sometime so an chinga says that his or hers or theirs diamond diamond tron had a chemical anti-glare soft sized sponge and brasso did work on that shadow mask thanks yeah you know we get i get some uh i imagine most people are working now right normal people it's noon on a monday oh let's see you just got done recapping your 250 looks great apart from the color bleeding color bleeding oh you're gonna be stuck hopefully i don't know you might have to adjust your focus and your g2 voltage first to try to get that tuned up and your brightness man i don't know it's like if you don't have very much color drive stuff you're gonna you're gonna be stuck adjusting with what you can really it's not a lot more you can do other than try to juice that g2 voltage up and when you do that it can blow out the picture and make it look foggy can do that when you increase brightness that's generally a sign of an aged tube unfortunately steve have i ever tried buffering scratches out of co3 glass no i have not but you know what is it eight oh man there's a great video of somebody just did eight gadget uk or something i can't remember his channel name goodness i'm subscribed to his channel let's see if i can find the channel it's pretty active but he's a guy over that usually does all right here it is here's the channel i know the video is on here so i'm gonna flip over show you it's gadget uk and i believe it's a short video no oh yes it's this video right here okay he's got whoops scratches on the crt screen and we'll just let it run here i'm sure he doesn't care i've talked to him before sometimes he's got some screen scratches here yes that's the channel and this is uh loca glue okay that's the same kind of stuff you used i believe to do the old school uh the old school glue for those gameboy screen modifications you had to do the front lights and stuff oh look also take a check on delusional's post he just sent you an arcade forum post that's got i'm sure some information but these have been the best um things i've seen so far i've i've been waiting for a crt to come through that i could try this particular method on with this glue the gadget uk 164 did but i have not i've not tried that myself yet and i've not been able to do it but that sounds like a fun thing to try maybe on a live stream sometime okay all right guys we're gonna um we're gonna switch over here and last segment of the day that's been officially set up and it'll give me a second to change things around on the set but boom look at our graphics everybody who watches the watchman i know right who said i couldn't have happened in graphics here on the channel so i'm gonna get things reset here for a second we're gonna talk about some things sony did uh before i got into this restoration i've been going over today with you i was working on a and that's what i had to do i to reset this camera i was working on a sony um bvmd series and i noticed as i went through and made the cap kits for the television or sorry the monitor sony uh first off here's something guys sony never never marks whether a cap is bipolar or not in their documentation as a matter of fact they give you barely any information on caps for like replacements for example you'll get the cap location which is on a board like for example this board i'm gonna show you um let's hope let's see here all right my camera's glitching out a little bit i'm sorry about that hopefully it'll come back to life and be okay here um there we go so this is the bd one let me see if i can get a little bit more light there we go and maybe i can adjust this and man the camera's really glitching out i think this one's just starting to like fail on me this particular camera so i apologize for that we're gonna make it through this though um i need to go in here and turn the camera controls back to autofocus there we go and apply and then we will just turn brightness a little bit i'm gonna show you a couple key things on this card so this is gosh this camera's just really gonna be fits today sorry guys i know it's like glitching i'm i'm sure yeah i hope it doesn't glitches bad on your screen but it's glitching pretty good bad on my screen so i'm gonna try not to move it so much so anyway this this is littered with capacitors this is a card that you use it's an additional card for sony bvm it's the 21d card and it's an input card that you use to add additional inputs in your bvm okay so this one will give you three composite video inputs and then a set of rgb inputs but it can do rgb sync on green but there's no sync slot on here okay so it can't do like a standard rgb sync it can do rgb sync on green or um component video with this card okay but this card has a very common failure point that save on pat you know revealed and i'm gonna show you that so if you ever have this card and you want to make sure it works good you're probably 99% of the time gonna have to change one single capacitor on here and it's gonna be this one i'm gonna show you i'm not sure what it is but this is um this is what happens when you have somebody have miles and miles of experience with these these things it's this capacitor right here c232 it is a service mount capacitor 35 volt 4.7 micro farad capacitor that one goes bad all the time and it's like the achilles heel for this card anytime there's an issue seems like even if half the other caps are bad on this card if that one caps good the card will work and it'll do most of its functionality so always replace that but that's a couple of things i'm um that you know who watches who's watching sony who was watching sony when they let him do all this stuff let me show you it's probably gonna be difficult to see but for example when you get in here and you look at it gets even more tricky when you look at these surface mount components right so if you look at some surface mount caps here with me sony will only tell you the voltage and the capacitance of the capacitor and then a 20 value range like generally and then you come in here and you've made your cap kit ahead of time and you realize this capacitor this capacitor and a few more on this board are bipolar capacitors they were not marked on service manual so now you have to go order a second round of capacitors with bipolar capacitors and that's generally why you always have to unless you're using the documented rewrite of the i'm sorry if this thing's been running and just running sound i don't know unless you are following a rewritten guide for a board like this you're not going to be able to follow the sony guide and just order your caps because again you won't know which of these have surface mount or which of these i mean have but bipolar caps and to be honest with you there was a couple instances where i would look at a card from the bvm and uh the cap list would say it was a surface mount cap and then i'd get over to it and it was actually a through-hole cap like this one and it had a completely different value but it was listed in the manual something else so you always need to be mindful of what's actually on the board that's your best guide no matter what you do servicing this stuff you cannot just follow the service manual and let's say you say you blindly went in and just said hey i'm gonna recap this and i'm gonna order my cap kit based completely off of only the documentation you do so and then what if you before you paid too much attention you decap this whole board and you realize holy crap there were some smd caps in there then you're in a big big pickle okay so i'm trying to teach you these things so you don't have to have these same mistakes that i did you know don't make the same mistakes i did before yeah it happens all the time there's it seems like there's at least one to two bipolar capacitors in every single sony crt and it's never marked in the documentation so that's kind of it that's it for the who watches the watchman segment for this week now guys and gals thank you all for tuning in today that's really pretty much it for the schedule program i mean we're right at one hour 15 minutes is about an hour show on mondays just to hang out i can hang out for a little bit and chat with you but that's all i really had planned and it's let's see i actually have to travel this thursday so unfortunately we're going to have a break here where there's not going to be a bunker episode this thursday i'm going to have something planned i've been trying to meet back up with zez for a an episode of the cathode ray podcast and if i can get with him that would be a perfect thing to have come out for thursday and maybe he could you know post it then if we can get it done i've just not been able to connect with him he's got a new job and that's helping him work and really well for him but it's prevented us from really filming anything recently so maybe that can happen otherwise i think i'll try to get something put together for a video for a friday release i can't make any promises but i'm going to work towards that wow yeah if if you go in so there's a couple things here and i'm not going to jump off just yet guys i had some conversation here about cap kits and things and someone was js when making my cap kit there were multiple caps that were not on the board or just completely different uh for my sony yes that happens there's sometimes there'll be a board revision and they'll get rid of parts all together and it's yeah i don't know i don't think that there's a benefit to go back and then add the parts in the in the places where it's been removed so i wouldn't recommend that usually uh but that does happen sometimes the cap kits like for example the m series pvm there's three or four caps that might not be in some that are in others and you got to put them on the list but put it you know hey this might not be in yours sometimes the uh the depending on the year the crt was made it could have a modification where there's a different value capacitor there i always say go with what's in the crt and on the board at the time you open it unless you know it's been changed and it's been changed something wrong visibly man all right there you go go check out del's stream or wednesday if you have time it's great guy with a lot of crt knowledge and we're going to get together del and do a stream soon all right grail let's see steve quick question if you had a crt that was just a little bit too dark troubleshooting steps on that if you mean uh brightness and darkness on the screen so there's one let me see if i can pull something up here i think personally the best thing to do is to try to judge all this and see what the software can do on your tv first off so what i'm going to do is i'm going to go over to the 240p test suite and just kind of walk you through here a second kind of the steps i take and show you the pattern i used to do so and because there's actually a method to this uh whole thing here and it would be much better for me to just pull up the pattern if i can and oh yeah so this is this is it i'm going to show you now we're going to jump over here to this and yeah okay so if you get it in there and again if you this is the pattern i love to use and it's this sorry it's so tiny but it's the sm sm pte color bar pattern okay and if you press a on your controller it'll take it from 75 brightness to full brightness if you get in there and your contrast and stuff it's not um it's not making a difference then you need to you're gonna have to get in and uh check sub brightness and sub contrast if that's something that is even there and usually uh when you get to a crt if it is there it's going to be in the form of a potentiometer inside the tv or it's going to be software manipulated through a setting so if you first go through and your standard brightness and contrast won't get this up won't get this visible because the goal here is you pull up this pattern and it's very difficult to see i don't know why i can't get this let me see if i can zoom this picture and why i'm having so many issues with my view not letting me zoom um i'm not sure what's going on there i don't even really know how to use these tabs there we go all right it's not even doing anything interesting i press zoom and it does nothing gotta love google chrome right piece of junk anyway if you look in these schedule or this this section of black and you might not be able to see it on my screen i'm sorry but if you look at this pattern there's black uh cubes down here one of those cubes has three lines in it and you just want to have it set to where those three lines are basically barely visible okay barely visible so again and then if you can't get anything out of those adjustments if you can't get anything out of those first adjustments and then you move on you're not getting anything else out of the other adjustments then the only thing left to do is to try to increase the g2 voltage which is the screen brightness potentiometer and nine nine times out of ten that's on your flyback transformer so it'll be marked with screen and go in there and crank that up a little bit if you crank it up to where you see retrace lines on the tube like vertical i mean horizontal diagonal lines and you start seeing it bloom out it's too high you have to back it back down a little bit and that's the best way um you may have either a weak tube or flyback or you may have circuits that are worn out or components in the circuits that are worn out for the color controls so there's components there if they're dried out capacitors is preventing that contrast and brightness to go up it's basically that kind of a process um i hope that's helpful yeah overclock wise thank you yeah you might want to just check just take a quick spin it's not going to be painful or harmful to that tv to spin that wheel a little bit see if it comes up it might come up and look perfect and that's all that's happened is that g2 voltage drift and it's gone down over time and it needs to be cranked up a little bit that's very common it's like anything after time it needs to be readjusted so let me uh close that out get back here thank you everybody again today and i really appreciate all your um wonderful comments and thank you again when it's some a super chat that's awesome i appreciate it and again you guys have enjoyed the show just a simple like always is helpful um andre it is normal if nothing else happens if the taillight just blinks once if the taillight just blinks it's not a problem just blinks on and off now if it like blinks i've never seen one that just sits there and like blinks if it keeps doing it they might have something that it's code that it's seeing it saying is wrong but all right guys this we're gonna stop hope you all have a wonderful rest of your monday sorry i won't see you thursday with the live show but i'll figure something out and you know just keep your notifications on and um you'll see something have a great rest of your week and i will at the latest see you next monday in the next episode of the bunker uh where i'll have something else planned we'll definitely have some returning segments we're gonna have a new piece of electronics to get through i'll see you guys then you have a great rest of your week thank you again and i'll see you next


Hello everyone, we're going to wait a few more minutes before we get started. Amy, whenever you're ready to kick us off. I'm going to hold for a couple more people because like normally we'll have like as many as like 27 to 30 in here and right now I'm seeing 14 so I'm going to give up a few more minutes. Yeah. Thanks. Of course. No worries. Hi everyone. Excellent. Okay. We were we were holding a little bit to be able to see like who else is going to join. So, all good. I will, I will now kick us off for four minutes in. So, welcome. Welcome to your TOC meeting. Welcome to your normal LF anti pressure policy notes. Welcome to meeting logistics. You have made it to the meeting. Well done. We're watching online later. Also good to see members present day is going to be attractive and to see public working doc. Here's our agenda today. It's annual review day. Awesome. Thanks so much, Amy. Go ahead. So let's get started with pixie. Are there any pixie members contributors maintainers on the call. I want to turn it over to them. Awesome. Oh, cool. Okay. Great. So, pixie is a observability tool for Kubernetes. I leverages EVPF to collect data. We're currently a CMC of sandbox project. At a high level, you know, we've been seeing some pretty steady growth and contributions and continued project growth happening. We are actively working on adding additional maintainers to the project. Both from, you know, within. So, stepping back a second, pixie was built by pixie labs, which was acquired by new relic. A couple years ago, and pixie was contributed over to the CNCF after our acquisition. The entire pixie team is still very actively working on pixie. And we have quite a few external contributors right now they're working on expanding our maintainers to include folks from outside of new relic. And also to broaden our governance process to include folks from outside of new relic so we want to get to be a good vendor neutral status. Right now our governance is pretty much controlled by me and Michelle, and we'd like to make that more community governed over the next few months. And we plan to resume our community meetings monthly every November, so we'll be sending out those calendar invites slash locations. So happy to see an expansion of this project. Awesome. Thanks so much. Yeah, pixie has been doing some great work and moving forward and they are striving to increase the amount of participation and documentation that they have for the project. Does anybody have any open questions for them on the call. Same couple of things that we didn't talk about the other day. So, you know, the calendar when you do the calendar just make sure it gets added to the CNCF calendar to that would be one dog one would be like when you start writing down things. I don't know if you talked about so please talk to the tag contributor strategy to get their, you know, view on like what you're writing up in terms of governance. That's going to be very critical. I think we talked about security to write. Writing down the security processes that you already follow so you will get a sense of how you do things and what they can expect from you if there is a problem right so those are the like three things that came to my mind. Yep, that's not good and we have some security reports that for the pixie project that we plan to release. So they're just going through legal review on our side but we plan to release those shortly. Okay, thank you. Anyone else. Okay, thank you so much pixie for coming and talking up next to CNI genie. Do we have any folks from CNI genie on the call. Hi, yeah. My name is Vinay Vinay Kulkarni and I work for a company called future way technologies which is a subsidiary of Huawei and CNI genie. This is this project had been in the back burner for for quite some time due to staffing issues since the 2019 government restrictions came down for the parent company and they had to cut staff to manage the project budget budgeting based on the progress that they're going to make after that. But now it looks like they asked us to take it over in all fairness they asked to take it over in last one year or so it's been but we haven't had the bandwidth to, you know, give attention to it given all the other things that were going on. We recently hired a new person who joined us couple of weeks ago. So I'm hoping to get a reboot on this project. I think the need for this project is there in the sense that there isn't very many solutions out there that does multi home networking. And we have another project that we have been working on we presented recently in various conferences and I think the technology that's based on XDP is really solid and scalable. So we're hoping to bring that with the native isolation. This is some of the ideas that I have given put down over there, the annual review. The main, the main idea is to integrate the work that we've done in that with CNI genie and then add some of the newest, the CNI solutions that are out there support them like psyllium, this is one of the very popular solution out there, and then essentially we're going to integrate it over the next one year or so. So we're going to start doing the routine regular community meetings and as soon as our staffing is done, and we're going to have there, I think there's another university in China which is potentially there are who are already working on this project, and they might contribute to this we haven't worked out the staffing yet. It depends on what their contribution interests are they look to generate papers out of it. And we want to use this for more production. So, the points that I mentioned there pretty much I think the bottom line is that yeah we want to continue this project we want now we want this staffing up. And as we get more traction and see how it goes. We'll probably, obviously we want to get external contributors and make it a real, you know, behave, but that's going to be a little while I believe. So, it's going to take a little while. We're going to take a few small steps here, as you said, and we'll take it from there. Any questions that you might have as far as the, our plan goes. Matt was doing this right. I don't see Matt on the. Okay. I can tell, you know, I had unplugged my laptop from my normal microphone and when I plugged it back in zoom decided not to switch back. So it was just a microphone. Oops, the, I don't really have any other questions because they weren't they were covered I mean CNI genie kind of started to stall for a while looks like it's getting re invigorated in life. There's a roadmap with plans around what's going to happen in intent. So, I don't really have any other questions. Yeah. Thanks Matt. So I do want to share something here. So when I is has more patients than me, and he's been working on a feature in communities that has taken longer than any of the things that I've had. Auto scaling. So, you know, I took the crown from you on that one. Yeah, exactly. Thanks a lot for that. And I'm sure your guidance is going to help here. So one question, like, I wanted to ask was you were talking about the technology itself, the ebb of XDP itself. Do you have a sense of like, what use cases that you're going to start with, like when the new people come in, like, do you want to do exactly what they were doing before or go to a smaller use case like you were saying. Yeah, the first use case is essentially bring psyllium that should be a relatively easy thing to do for the new persons who's coming in and wrapping up at psyllium, you know, and to do end to end testing make sure that it works in isolation. And I think the next, the big thing that I really want to do is take our ebb of the XDP architecture that we have, which natively provides isolation today when you I think this came about the idea came about from one of the talks that I listened to in KubeCon EU. This was, I believe IKEA was trying to use psyllium and multis and they mentioned a bunch of issues that they ran into. And one of the things they were talking about in that was they want to have multi home networking, each of them in their own isolated networks. This is something you could do with any other provider, but you may have to use network policies that if you're using the same provider. In our case, we do that by at the packet layer we use the Geneve isolation Geneve as the overlay and then we use the VN is for isolation so and we have a demo of that working for a new architecture that we've been working on, where multiple. It's a Kubernetes cluster and then re architected so that you have one API server talking to today you have one API server it has a bunch of worker nodes. What if you had multiple API servers sharing those worker nodes. Now each of these API services its own tenant partition. And that's where our solution works very well. There's any other CNA solution that saw and our solution is not it's not commercial as you know, it's more of a prototype. We don't have the staffing here to do commercial stuff we do R&D. And then if it becomes a strong need for the parent company they do it they have the staffing to do it. But our idea is to essentially present the technology and then get collaborators contributors in to work with so it's ecosystem project essentially. So that that use case I believe this can be a very good candidate to solve that, you know, provide natively isolated multi 10 multi home networking to put it in one line. Sounds good. Thanks a lot. Thanks. I have a question so do you have any performance data when you use a BPF STP compare with the Linux Linux network stack. We don't have published numbers what we did do last late last year was we tried our the Mizar project it's called project Mizar. And we tried that with using a simple IPF test on a one gig. We were able to do better than psyllium we still do better than psyllium in a couple of metrics like TCP are our test. But what we did see was that when we go to like real line speed, like 10 gig next which is what's common and it's going further further up now. We were, we were capping out at 2.3 2.56 gig or something. I investigated that and found that the reason why that's happening is because we use XDP in the to at the to terminate the container connection like when the pod sends out traffic. And then it comes out and we converted to XDP back frame and then we redirected to the TXQ of the transmitting that involves a conversion from SKB to XDP. That is an overhead. So we're looking at potential alternatives redesigning the architecture a little bit because in the past one year when we started this project we did not have anything that would give us something like XDP redirect which you know shoots a packet from one interface to another one. I think the psyllium folks have added a few things like EBPF redirect peer. These are a few APS which do what XDP redirect does. So we're hoping to use that and then see if we can get a better performance on the TX side. But the main use case for this would be isolation at this point, more than performance. Okay, thank you. Any other questions before we move on to fluid. Yeah, I know this is about more isolation and performance but any comparison with using DPDK. No, we have to avoid most of that, you know, limited working sky. Yeah, we haven't done a comparison with DPDK I would suspect that the PDK would probably perform a little bit better. Because you're essentially taking the packet and putting in user mode and processing it there, but then you also have the limitations of DPDK right. It doesn't work everywhere. You need to have that SDK, you need to have that NEC, or you need to have the processor that works with it. I don't know. DPDK is more like a software library, so it's got nothing to do with the NEC. It can work on any operating system. Okay, next space. But it's essentially avoiding your network stack. Yeah, I think it avoids the kernel network stack because you're so I know I know about that. I haven't we haven't had the chance to do a comparison with DPDK. I suspect that DPDK will probably perform better than better than XDP or EBBF in most cases, but that's yet to be seen the main place where it might come. Now, XDP might do better is when we get offload, you know, offload ecosystem is still in its very infancy, EBBF offload, there is not a lot of mix out there. There's one netronome which we tried out for some time last year and we ran into several issues that netronome on paper says they do EBBF offload but when you try when you go near it and then take a closer look. It doesn't support XDP redirect, it does not support tail calls, which is one of the things that we were using. So there are limitations to that. But, well, it's too early to say there might be some, I just had a call with an with the CTO of another company who is working on HXDP, which is hardware XDP offload that was yesterday. So I'm digesting the information I got. There is potential for offloaded XDP to, you know, give perform on par with the board. Yeah, yeah. So, but that might be, you know, we're talking years, maybe, I don't know. It's not going to happen. Yeah, so there is some things coming, but we don't know whether. Thank you so much for all of that additional information for folks that have more questions I would recommend that you file issues with the project so that the discussion can take place in a recorded location and be shared with everyone else. Thank you again. Next up is fluid. Are there any project members from fluid on the call that would like to talk about the project. If there's no one I can go through this Emily. Thanks Kathy. Okay. So fluid provides communities native. Distribute data sets orchestrate her for data intensive applications. This is going very well. The project is very healthy and static. It has very healthy and static contributions. It has, you know, bi-weekly community meetings consistently has five, but maintainers form committers and nine new adopters last year. Total is 15 and has two releases. And the maintainers committers come from not just one company, I think at least four or five different companies.  And also they, they are thinking of adding more documentation and to make sure it has good maintenance of the website. It intends to remain sandbox project so it's not ready to apply for in the patient yet. They are trying to get more committers contributors and users, and then they will consider applying for the incubation project. And so they're asking CNCF, similar to other party to increase promotion of the project. And basically more channels to advocate their project. And they would like to collaborate with other projects in the CNCF, and even if it could be out of CNCF. And also they want some relax some technical writing support for documents. Okay, does anybody have any questions we will endeavor to try to answer them here. Okay, next step is Andrea. Is there anyone is there. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone from Andrea on the call. No. All right, Dems you're up. So, Andrea was in originally a VMware Tanzu project and that got contributed to CNCF. I think they're doing all right. In terms of like contributions and adoption. They have the usual issues that we see in other projects which is, hey all the maintainers are from one company or you know the forming company so they are trying to figure out like how they can, you know, increase, not just contributions but also add maintainers so governance was something that they are looking at to do better. I don't think it was mentioned here but they've started like new sub projects as well based on Andrea. So using Andrea as a layer, you know, as underlying component to, and they've added some contributors and maintainers there as well. So, overall, they are doing okay. What they need right now is, hey, what do we need to do for big stop starting the process for an incubation project. And one of the things that had held them back before was who do you consider as end users, you know, off a project right so in the earlier definition used to be very rigid and I think Emily, you ended up tweaking that quite a bit to see how we could get additional signals from different types of folks, and not just the way it was worded before. So, I, so based on that I think they are kind of ready for this. I might have to look at how they are doing security. I don't know if they have talked to tax security yet. That might be something that we might have to get them to do. So, security and governance. If, if they get to a point where we are happy with those two things, then I think we should consider them for incubation. That is that was my feedback reading through, you know, the updates that they posted as well as, you know, the updates that I got from Dave as well. Any questions here. Back to you. Okay. Which other companies are contributing. So, one example would be, I think, I forget whether it is Microsoft or Google days. Well, I think it was Google, Google was using for their Windows nodes, they're using Andrea, for example, so and they got a lot of collaboration through that mechanism. I can go look at. So what I think one place what they mentioned was, when somebody comes to them, they'll stay for a couple of, you know, PRs and issues and then they go away right like because, you know, they come here, because something that they are trying to do is not working. If they are happy then they move on. Right. So that, that is the kind of challenge that they are facing because, you know, at some point you need to get me dinner so you don't you don't want people who are just doing features right. So, that is the usual issue. Thank you. Thanks. Next up we have telepresence. Is there anyone from telepresence on the call. Okay. And the TOC representative that worked on their annual review. Amy or Jim, do you remember who that was? I don't believe we had anyone for this one. Okay. All right. Well, I will go through it. So, telepresence focus this time was around compatibility with service meshes. Working through an emulating pass through for all the features that are being exposed by the various cloud, cloud providers that are out there. The traffic agents they're working on making sure that it does not disturb the existing network policies and checks including providing network policies for system admins and specific constrained firewall requirements and instructions to configure load balancers. So, they're also looking to have it easier to deploy in the context of large clusters with multiple different kinds of applications. They want it to be easy to set up the Argo CD deployment of tele telepresence for example in cluster admins should have clarity on which configuration levers that they can tweak as well as the ability to push cluster wide telepresence configurations to users machines. So, the mass of the CNCF they're looking for expanding their user base with more contributors tutorials and improvement of the documentation. And they are looking to welcome contributors who have expertise with complex environments or specific use cases and share how they got telepresence to work for their particular use case, integrating with other tools, especially on cloud native ones. Does anyone have any questions associated with telepresence. One, one other thing that I wanted to say here was like, just like any other sandbox projects they are having the same issues around, hey, how do we increase our contributor base, how do we publish tutorials, how do we talk to others and improve engagement with other CNCF projects. So, you know, you know, that trend is there, right like so it's the same set of problems that they're facing here as well. Then the other one, I think, Amy you touched on it already is like when the happy part, everything is working, like if it's this, if somebody is doing something different from the happy part that they have documented, then they run into trouble. And that's because why they are requesting, you know, people to try out telepresence in complicated deployment scenarios. So they get feedback on that. So one thing I had in mind here was for these folks to somehow talk to end user community to get that kind of feedback. Maybe they can do a survey or something to and engage somehow with the end user community to see if folks are using telepresence and how to get enough feedback so they can update their docs and whatnot. Yep, makes complete sense. Yeah, anytime you were struggling with project adoption, it's usually the edge cases that catch everybody and inhibit that growth rate. So if you have experience with telepresence or not yet recommend trying it out or any of the annual sandbox projects that we were covering here today and then providing feedback to the projects via an issue, or I'm reaching out to them in their corresponding slack channels. Any other questions are on telepresence. Moving on, wasm edge runtime. Do we have anyone from the project on the call that wishes to talk about the project. And is the TOC sponsored. Yeah, I'm here. So for this project, I think, overall, it's on the right track it's growing fast, it's GitHub metrics, it really hails the pre active. And I also check these contributions, they are doing really great on in general, I but I do have two suggestions, regarding to this project, I think the first is, I noticed that majority of the maintenance, actually almost all the companies as well as the contributors are from a single company, which is, I think, still need to improve. The second part is, in regard to the adoption. You know when the assembly is essentially a cutting edge technology so we should not expect it that super super large scale but I do suggest that this project work on for example maybe publish some user studies, especially those, if those blog posts can help people understand how this project is helping them adopting when the assembly because this project position itself like it's, it's well, it tend to intend to make you develop deployed wrong when the assembly application faster either it has also have some killer features like a very fast machine for when the assembly I think all of those technologies are good. I would like to learn how they are helping real world customers or real world users. I think this is another area in terms of adoption, they can improve, and not just that not not super large skills adoption but more like more examples helping people understand how this project can benefit you can benefit other people. Yeah, that that are two suggestions I can give to this project. Awesome. Anyone have any questions. And the thing is, how this project compare with other projects means solving the similar problems in the similar areas that will be helpful for, you know, for adoption for users. Yeah, I agree. And also how is this project actually potentially can work with other members simply demand project I do see there are small overlaps but I think in most cases they can work together so it's just really, really be great if they can probably something talk about that. Yeah. So, there's a plan for the project to go into incubation. That's, that's our goal right now, or, or they don't have a goal yet. I think I have a goal to move to incubation. I think their timeline is, I think, end of this year but my personal suggestion as it may be a little bit fast. Not very practical considering for the first issue I said the maintainers are still from the single company and adoption we need to see a more, you know, more activities and improvement in adoption parts like another thing the end of this year is a practical Yeah. Thanks. Make sense. Okay, anything else. No. Alright, vineyard. Is there anyone from the project on the call that wishes to talk about it. If not, we can hand it over to Ricardo. Yeah. See anyone so I'll take it. So, vineyard is in memory. Data manager to help with the abstracting and zero coping memory sharing. And it's used for distributed data. Now, graphically, the miracle computing scientific computing she learning the project has seen quite a lot of activity in the last year since it joined sandbox earlier last year. So there were end users reporting adoption in years of scientific computing research facilities think one in France and also fintech. Which included one in production, a couple moving to production and testing phase. So, one of the goals of the project is to continue focusing on this and improving and user adoption. The GitHub activity shows and their stats show quite significant growth, especially in the number of individual contributors in total, which contributes, and the number of organizations that contributions as well. The main feature that they had it in the project was the added integration, supporting airflow, and this is in addition to other integrations they already have for machine learning, things like TensorFlow by George and others and also task. So that's quite interesting. And now they added support for air flows. They mentioned in their requests for the CNCF more opportunities to introduce the project to a broader set of end users and increase adoption so this was already mentioned a couple of times today, think it's a common one. They specifically mentioned the fact that they submitted a few proposals for coupon. And those were rejected so they see this as an opportunity to get more visibility. And a couple of notes on on looking at the project as well. I think the added maintainers are really good, but they are still from the same organization, she's Ali Baba. So they're a bit more diversity will help the project in the future. And that's really one of the focus, I guess. The other one is the fact that they mentioned that they don't want to apply immediately for integration. They want to focus on improving the set of end users and the option they have before buying, which I agree, which sounds like the point to do first. In addition to what they mentioned for improving visibility and adoption. They mentioned coupon proposals so they're maybe having shared proposals from the project and some selected end users will kind of make the proposals more a bit stronger. So maybe that's something to to look at. And the other one is that on the website is not immediately clear, which use cases the project focuses on so making it more clear and publishing more case studies would probably help with with the project as well. So at least the perception of the project from from potential end users. So I think that's all I have. Okay, are there any questions. No. Okay, I think that wraps up all of the sandbox reviews Amy. It does indeed. And like at this point in time we normally move for a vote. So here, I will go ahead and call a vote over in chat. It's to accept. Wait a second to be able to make sure that I'm getting everybody in here. Please just to see a vote. Thank you. I think I'm missing one Aaron Aaron might be missing you. And Kathy as well. Kathy Aaron please. Got Aaron's got Kathy's. All right, these pass we can move on. Thank you. Projects applying to move levels. Any updates here. I believe spiffy inspire I've already graduated. Give it 20 minutes. Okay. They have been fairly buried I met with them once but I don't think they've they've put in the effort yet. We'll just push that down always. I can speak up on flux real quick. They are ready to go into public comment period as soon as the freeze is lifted. Excellent. Let us track for being able to have that be a November 1. So, I'll put that on my minders. All right, any other updates in here. My last thing is the community awards are now open for nominations and I've made sure that all of them are actually accepting things. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, since we talked about freeze, if you go back one slide I want to make sure that people see this to see issue. Yes, I was going to put that at the end I was going to collect the note is basically like the nominations are open but that is that's all of my note so go ahead. So, the TOC issues 918, you know, there. This was the first time we tried out the freeze, and we saw some edge cases, as usual, right. And so we want to iterate. So we are collecting feedback from, you know, how we, you know, what are the kind of things that we talked about on this time for the freeze, and then how do we do better for the next time. So, if you have any feedback, please, you know, go to this issue and chime in. There's a lot of feedback there already so we have to make sure that we take into account, you know, all the things that people have said there. So, please look read and send us feedback. Ricardo. No, I was just clicking. Okay, you didn't actually have anything. That's fine. Yeah, go ahead. I would also add that for those of you that are interested in understanding more about the level of effort involved in going through due diligence due diligence refresh understanding the activities that the talk part participates in during those processes for graduation or moving levels. The thread on that issue is an excellent resource to understand all the things that take place that are not otherwise documented in the TOC repository at this current point in time. So I encourage everyone to take a look. If you are interested in pursuing becoming a TOC member in the future. This is a good visibility into some even just a small fraction of the work that goes into the work that the TOC conducts for the foundation. Back to you Amy. No, that's perfect. That actually leads me towards a coming attraction. The coming attraction for TOC elections will be talking about this keep con with America, but the nomination cycle kicks off in January for TOC and seating in the end of February. So, if like people people are interested in that that's coming up. And again, my last piece is like, if you have people that you want to nominate, please nominate them. We will be closing nominations next Friday. That is the 30th. So that we get a chance to be able to make sure that all of these are together for keep con with America. This is a great way to highlight key folks within your communities within your ecosystem. They're contributing their writing documentation. So I encourage everyone if you can and are able to please nominate someone from the community. Anything else on the community words. Nope, that was it. We now actually have some time for open questions. Not all at once. Well, if there's no questions yet, I do want to point out to everyone on the call that there were quite a few themes associated with several acts of the CNCF primarily around getting new contributors and increasing awareness and visibility of a lot of these projects specifically around documenting use cases and studies associated with the functionality feature set of these individual projects. So if you are a potential sandbox project on the call or we're watching after the fact, take heed. These are common problems for those of you that were part of the annual review recommend reaching out to the contributor strategy or checking out the wonderful documentation and resources that they already have available as a potential avenue of increasing your contributorship and working with other tags and groups and other projects to increase contributorship and visibility of the projects. Any questions. All right, we will consider this closed. We'll send everybody back into their day. It's good to see all of you. Thank you Emily for hosting. Yeah. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.