Good morning and welcome to the ninth meeting of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee in session 5. I would like to remind members of the public to turn off mobile phones and any members using electronic devices to access committee papers during the meeting should ensure their turn to silent. No apologies have been received today. Our first item of business is the decision on taking item 4 in private. Item 4 is consideration of a paper on the committee's scrutiny of the draft budget 2017-18. When I move on to our second item of business today, which is an evidence session on the implications of the EU referendum for Scotland, I would like to welcome to the meeting the right honourable David Mundell MP, Secretary of State for Scotland and James Dowell, our Deputy Director for Constitutional Policy at the Scotland Office of Welcome. I would like to begin by asking Mr Mundell to make a few opening remarks. Thank you, convener. I would like to begin by thanking the committee for inviting me today to contribute to your inquiry. The UK Government is committed to engaging widely and hearing a range of views and perspectives as we prepare for the negotiations with the EU. The evidence gathered by this committee will be an important contribution to that. I also welcome the opportunity to talk to the committee about the work that the UK Government has taken forward in the last four months since the EU referendum. As the Prime Minister made clear immediately after the referendum, the UK Government is committed to getting the best deal for Scotland and the whole of the United Kingdom. That is exactly what we are focused on. I am pleased that there have been a series of useful meetings between the UK and Scottish ministers and officials. For example, last Friday, the Secretary of State for exiting the European Union and I had a very productive discussion with the Minister for EU Negotiations on Scotland's place in Europe. On Monday, the Prime Minister chaired a substantive discussion on EU exit with the First Minister and leaders of the Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Executive at the Joint Ministerial Plenary Committee. Yesterday, Mr Davis and Mr Russell spoke again. Although we may have different views, it is vital that the UK and Scottish Governments work constructively together to secure Scotland's interests. That is why the Prime Minister has established a new forum on EU negotiations chaired by the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU. That will give the Scottish Government and other devolved administrations a direct line to David Davis to allow them to put forward their proposals and help to shape the UK's exit strategy. The first meeting is in early November when market access will be discussed. As the agreement of the new forum demonstrates, we will give the Scottish Government every opportunity to have their say as we prepare for negotiations with the EU. I welcome that the Scottish Government has signalled that they will publish details of their priorities and proposals in the coming weeks. I also hope that the UK and Scottish Governments will take forward some joint engagement on sectors of particular importance to Scotland. I have proposed that directly to Mike Russell, which is something that we can take forward in early course. My priorities to ensure that Scottish voices and interests are at the centre of the negotiations to come and the UK Government is committed to engaging widely across Scotland. My colleague Lord Dunlop and I have already held over 50 meetings with groups and sectors from all parts of Scotland to hear directly from them about their priorities. Organisations include the National Farmers Union, the Scottish Fisherman's Federation, the Scottish Retail Consortium, the Scottish Whiskey Association, the Church of Scotland, Law Society, Young People's Representatives and a range of organisations from energy and tourism sectors. David Davis and I also had an extremely useful meeting with representatives from business, law and culture during his visit to Scotland last week. The overriding message that we have heard is a desire for this dialogue to continue and this will be an on-going priority as we prepare for negotiations. In the conversations I have had so far, I have also been struck by the appetite there is in Scotland for taking advantage of the opportunities provided by leaving the EU. In particular, the EU will provide many opportunities for the UK to create new trading links and partnerships. As we develop these partnerships, it is vital that the people of Scotland and its wide range of businesses are given every opportunity to contribute to the process. I am grateful to the committee for its work. I look forward to your conclusions with interest and to the continued engagement with the Scottish Parliament, which the UK Government is committed to as we work to leave the EU. Thank you very much, Secretary of State. Before we move to questions, can I remind members that we only have an hour today in order for every member to get the opportunity to ask the Secretary of State questions, if we could just bear that in mind? I would like to open the Secretary of State, but I am quoting something that you said on 7 August after meeting Scottish stakeholders. You said that it was your task to ensure that Scottish voices and interests are at the heart of negotiations. On 4 October, we heard the membership of the Prime Minister's Brexit Cabinet Committee and you are not a member, but you will only attend as required. How can you represent the voices and interests of those Scottish stakeholders when you are only attending this key committee as required? I am, of course, a member of the Cabinet, and it will be the Cabinet and the Prime Minister that lead the negotiating process. This is an important committee that covers a range of issues, and, as your inquiry has established, there is a vast range of issues that come up in relation to leaving the EU. My purpose is to focus on those issues, which are most important to Scotland. Therefore, I will attend that committee when issues that are most relevant to Scotland are on the agenda. I understand that, according to the Cabinet's manual, the committees of the Cabinet have the same authority as the Cabinet. How many meetings of that sub-committee there have been? We have said that we are not going to give a running commentary on the negotiations. We are not going to give a running commentary on the committees, but what I can say is that the committee is meeting next week and I will be there in attendance. You will be there. Who decides when you are required? What we will determine is what the agenda is of the meeting, what is the range of issues that are on the agenda, what is being discussed, what is I consider to be the relevance to Scotland and the importance to Scotland, and if there are matters of importance to Scotland on the agenda of that committee, I will be there. So, you will decide if you are required? I will determine whether I need to attend that committee. Right. Can you perhaps give an illustration of when you think that this committee would be discussing something that does not require your presence? I think that, as I have indicated to you, there is a vast amount of issues that relate to leaving the EU. What we have to ensure in that process is that we have focus. It is not for me to replicate the role of the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU. My role is to ensure that the issues and concerns of Scotland are at the heart of that process. Now, there are many issues that affect Scotland that also affect the whole of the rest of the United Kingdom. I have every confidence, for example, in my colleagues who attend that committee, that they are able to take forward those issues. Of course, we have distinct issues in Scotland. We will probably come on to discuss some of those, but there are a range of issues which impact on Scotland, which impact on the whole of the United Kingdom. As I say, I have confidence in colleagues to be able to take those issues forward. One of the issues that I think there is general agreement that is vital to Scotland's interest is being a member of the single market. In the 13th of July, you said that you wanted to ensure that Scotland got the best deal. To quote you, you said clearly that involves being part of the single market. Is that still your view? My view is that we want to maximise our involvement in the single market. That is the objective that the Government wants to achieve, but what I have also said, what the Prime Minister has said, is that it is not appropriate to look at existing structures, because going forward, what the UK is looking to achieve is a bespoke deal, a deal that is the best for the UK, including the best for Scotland. It is bespoke. It is not about having an arrangement that already exists. It is about doing something new and different. That is the outcome that we are looking for. I am looking for an outcome that allows the UK businesses to participate in the single market without tariffs and barriers. You want full membership of the single market in the sense that you want no tariffs or barriers. The European negotiators have already said that that is not possible. What I also know is that we are not going to conduct this negotiation in public. European negotiators and everybody under the sun are going to have their two-peneth worth as we go through the next two years. We will read all sorts of quotes from all sorts of people about what is not possible and what is possible. What we as the UK Government are not going to do is not going to conduct these negotiations in public. What, as the Prime Minister, has set very clearly out, we are focused on the outcomes. Obviously, an outcome that maximises our involvement in the single market is a desirable outcome, and that is what we are looking to achieve. There is a big difference between maximising your involvement in the single market and being in the single market with all the benefits that that brings. We are leaving the EU, and therefore, in that sense, we will be out with the current EU structures. What the negotiations will be determined is what our relationship will be with those EU structures, and all those issues, as far as I am concerned and as far as the UK Government is concerned, is open for negotiation. I pass on to Lewis MacDonald. Thank you. Thank you very much, and I would be eager to explore a little further what you mean when you talk about a bespoke agreement, because clearly that is what we are all focused on, is what the outcomes are going to be. A bespoke agreement suggests to me something that is tailored, something that is designed to fit our needs. How will that bespoke design be arrived at? What will be the process for determining what a bespoke agreement might look like? The process will be the negotiations. Clearly, the Prime Minister has set out, and the committee is aware of the timetable for triggering article 50, when the substantive negotiations will begin. What is envisaged, and David Davis set this out when he was in Scotland last week, is that there would be a single agreement for the whole of the United Kingdom, but that does not mean that within that agreement there cannot be specific issues that would relate to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There won't be a Scotland-only agreement, or a Wales-only agreement, Northern Ireland-only agreement. There will be a United Kingdom agreement, but that agreement can include differential arrangements in different parts of the United Kingdom. If, as part of the negotiation process, that is seen as to be the best way forward. Very interesting. The implication of quite a lot of what the Prime Minister has had to say recently is that that tailoring would be very specific around particular sectors. There has been talk, for example, of the city of London and finance. There has been talk of the car industry in the north and indeed the Midlands of England. What talk has there been around Scotland? If the Prime Minister asks you, which I am sure she does, what is it that Scotland needs out of this process? Where do you start that conversation? Firstly, I wouldn't believe all the media speculation that exists around special deals. David Davis confirmed when we met businesses in Glasgow last week that there isn't currently a plan for a special deal for the city or for the car industry. There will be issues that those industries have, very specific industries. We know that there are issues in relation to the financial services around passporting, for example. There are very specific issues to specific industries, but there won't be special deals. It is absolutely wrong to characterise a suggestion that, somehow, certain areas or parts of the country will get a special deal and Scotland will not. What will happen for Scotland is that we will get the deal that we need to meet our interests and concerns. I have been engaged along with my colleague Lord Donnell in over 50 discussions with all sorts of sectors across Scotland, a fairly wide cross-section, as well as a geographic cross-section. In Scotland, that is particularly important that we ensure that the whole geography of Scotland is incorporated. What I am doing at the moment is that I have fed back to the Prime Minister, for example, the issues and concerns that come up in that process. However, as I indicated in my initial remarks to the conveners, a number of issues that impact and Scotland also impact on other parts of the United Kingdom. There are other sparsely populated areas of the United Kingdom where there would be a desire for in-migration. There are areas of the United Kingdom where seasonal agricultural work is important, as well as here in Scotland, for example, so that those sorts of issues can be dealt with on a UK-wide basis, while, at the same time, dealing with a specific Scottish issue. When you began the answer, you used the phrase special deal. That was not the phrase that I had used. I know that you did not, Mr Donnell, but I have seen that phrase banded about.  What do differential arrangements mean, for example, in relation to financial services, for example, in relation to fisheries, for example, in relation to the motor industry? How do these differential arrangements arrive as part of that bespoke pouch? How they arrive is as part of our ongoing discussion and dialogue with these sectors to identify exactly what the most important issues and concerns are for the sector, so that we can understand the importance and the prioritisation that they have on particular issues and feed that into determining the negotiating process. Clearly, when it comes to designing that, to reaching that conclusion, the role of the person or persons determining which of those differential arrangements are in the package becomes absolutely critical. I return to the convener's line of questioning around your role and how it is that the Scottish Government or the Scottish Parliament can be reassured about your engagement in finalising the stitching together of those differential arrangements into that wider package. Ultimately, we are all judged on what we achieve and what the final outcome is, but I give you an absolute assurance that I am committed to ensuring that Scotland's best interests are achieved in this deal. I think that we can get a deal that can both represent the best interests of Scotland and of the United Kingdom as a whole, and I am positive about that. I am going into this process on a positive basis to ensure that our issues and concerns are right up at the top of the agenda, but clearly, as I have indicated, a lot of issues and concerns that we face in Scotland are issues that are evident across the whole of the United Kingdom and need to be resolved on that basis. Thank you very much. Just one other point. The European Commission in setting the grounds on which Michelle Barney is to negotiate from the other side of the table has specifically picked out Northern Ireland and Gibraltar as territories where a particular approach requires to be taken. Would you like to put on the record your understanding of what that means? What is it that requires the European Commission to approach discussions around Northern Ireland and Gibraltar on a different basis from the discussions around the other component parts of the United Kingdom? The specific issue is, of course, that both those areas have a land border with European Union member states. Is there not also a legal aspect to this, particularly in relation to other treaty obligations that the UK has undertaken? There are specific issues in both cases, but the geography is also a significant element in that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Do you have a supplementary question, if you could just be as quick as possible? In terms of the different asks that are going to be conveyed to the UK Government from around the UK, in Scotland our position is different. We have a Government of our own with a policy position, we have a Parliament and we have 62 per cent of the population that voted to remain within the European Union. You are, after all, Scotland's voice in the UK Cabinet, therefore, I assume that Scotland's priorities are at the foremost of your mind. Do you therefore agree that Scotland does have a distinctive case and a voice to be heard in those negotiations, especially in relation to access and membership of the single market, and that it would be unacceptable if those needs were not taken into account and asked by the UK Government? Scotland has two Governments. It has a Government here, the devolved Government and it is part of the United Kingdom and is represented by the United Kingdom Government. Scotland gets the best deal when those two Governments work together in a team UK approach. That is what I am committed to achieving. I am absolutely committed to ensuring that all the issues, concerns and asks of the Scottish Government are part of developing our negotiating process. I am pleased that we have made progress. You have previously been involved in the workings of the joint ministerial committees and you know how challenging it can be to bring all three devolved Administrations of the UK Government together, so it has taken slightly longer than I would have hoped. However, we have a process now that will allow the Scottish Government officials to be right at the heart of the process. I think that we have got the first meeting of that joint ministerial committee European negotiations coming up in early November. Market access, an issue that we have already touched on, will be on the agenda. There is a lot of work going on to determine the work programme for that. I do not have any doubt that Scotland's issues, concerns and asks will be at the heart of the process. That leads slightly and covers slightly the area that I would like you to discuss. That is to say a little bit more about the formal structures that are going to underpin the engagement that will take place between the Scottish Government and Westminster and the Scottish Parliament. How would you characterise the outcome of the meeting that took place on Monday? Just the formal structures that you have alluded to, what you think they will depend upon in order for there to be a productive and successful dialogue and outcome. You have mentioned the fact that market access will be on the agenda, although you do not propose to give a running commentary. Is that in itself a reflection of the importance that has been attached to that issue by the devolved administrations who have been seeking to identify the areas that will be discussed? Obviously, goodwill is at the heart of any process where parties are working together. I have to say that I have had a very positive working relationship with Mr Russell to date. Obviously, I know Mr Russell well of old and he has acted in a very constructive manner to date. That is why I am very keen following a discussion that we had recently that we engage in some joint activity. I think that it is very important to do that, the two Governments doing that together. There is little point in me in evidence gathering, so to speak, and finding that we have contradictory evidence, for example. Let's work together and see what the sectors are saying. Let's share information, and that's very much what this process is about. It's about both bringing officials together, but importantly, bringing the political part of the Government together as well. The committee will meet regularly, probably monthly. It will meet throughout the process of the negotiations and it will discuss the negotiations as the negotiations proceed. Obviously, in the period up until the end of March when the Prime Minister set out that article 50 will be triggered, its focus will be on that process and the beginning of the negotiations. However, there will be full and frank discussion. I have no doubt about that, but I also don't have any doubt that the Scottish Government voice will be heard in the process. The point that I asked about, the fact that market access is to be on the agenda of the first meeting that is coming up, is that to reflect the priority that has been attached to that by the devolved administrations? Is that why it is there? How do you see the work programme of that group developing? The work programme is going to be brought together by the respective administrations. There is a lot of detailed work going on in relation to achieve that, because it is a very tight timetable to work to. What the Prime Minister has assured the First Minister and others is that the timetable of that committee will dovetail into other developments. The committee will discuss, for example, the great repeal bill, which is the piece of legislation that would mean the repeal of the European community. The committee will discuss that at the point before that is finalised, so that there is full engagement in that process. We will dovetail the activities of the GMCEN with other developments as they unfold. Both sides and the other devolved administrations believe that market access is a very important issue, and that is why it is going to be the first issue that is going to be discussed. On that point, how many meetings of the GMCEN will take place before article 50 is triggered? I cannot answer that question in a definitive way. At the moment, it is anticipated that the committee would meet on a monthly basis. However, if more meetings are required, then there is the flexibility to do that. Likewise, there is the flexibility to have fewer meetings. I am very supportive of that, because I think that it was most unfortunate that the GMCP, which is the meeting of First Ministers and the Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, with the Prime Minister took so long to come about. There were a whole range of administrative reasons from all sides that that did not happen. However, it has been agreed that that will meet more regularly and that there will be a meeting of that form early in the new year. If it was monthly, then you are talking about four meetings before article 50 is triggered, so that does not sound all that many to me. If the participants want to have more meetings, there is not a restriction on the number of meetings. I am just reporting what the envisaged timescale is. Thank you very much. One supplement, if I may convener, on the process points that have been discussed. Can I take it that when article 50 is triggered, Secretary of State, there will be a UK position? There will be a UK position going into the negotiations, but that position in specific terms will not be announced in the sense of a running commentary basis that I have alluded to or the sense of us making absolutely clear what our negotiating position was on issues. I think that what you can anticipate because the process of triggering article 50 will involve a communication with the EU and that will set out UK priorities. I understand that and believe me I have heard the phrase running commentary more than I ever want to hear it ever again, but what I was driving at is that it is therefore safe to assume that at that point that article 50 is triggered, Edinburgh Cardiff and Belfast will know what that position is. I would anticipate that. Thank you. The question I actually wanted to ask was on environment, fisheries and agriculture. When we came into this place in 1999, as Richard and Lewis did too, when I read the Scotland Act in that point, they are devolved. In whatever happens in the future, they will remain devolved, won't they? Fisheries, agriculture and environment will be the responsibility of this institution. There will be no change to existing arrangements other than that the context of leaving the EU does automatically change the devolved settlements because the devolved settlements are predicated on the basis that the UK is a member of the EU. It is clear that there will be a range of changes flowing from that in terms of relationship and a range of options. What I am committed to do in relation to those options is to engage with all those interested parties in Scotland. I think that it is very important that we do that. That is what we have done in relation to previous devolution settlements, both back in the settlement that preceded the establishment of this Parliament, the Kalman commission and the Smith commission. All of those were heavily consulted on and preceded on the basis of engagement. I am not proceeding at the moment on the basis of a fixed presumption. I very much understand the point that you make. You will be aware that there are other interests that suggest different options. I think that we need to look at the options and engage fully, and that is what I am committed to doing. I understand that, but politically it would be impossible to imagine our fisheries policy of Scotland being determined in Westminster, given that it has been determined in Edinburgh by no other than Richard Lochhead and Ross Finney since devolution in 1999. I could not envisage that there would be a change to the existing arrangements. On that point, you will be aware, Secretary of State, that this committee commissioned evidence research work from Professor Alan Page at Dundee University. He made the point that, after Brexit, there was a very strong possibility that Scottish law, which was a European law, could be repealed using secondary legislation at Westminster, abandoning the presumption that there would be consultation with this Parliament. Do you envisage that we will have to go back into the devolution settlement to make sure that that does not happen? What I envisage happening in relation to the Scottish law issues is obviously the two Governments working very closely together to ensure that there are no legal difficulties, firstly, at the point that the UK leaves the EU, that the body of existing EU law applies from that day, so that we do not reach a situation where there is any uncertainty as to what the law is. That will be a key component of the great repeal bill. There have already been discussions with the Scottish Government's initial discussions, with the Scottish Government's legal advisers, as to how that process can be best taken forward. It is a complex process and that process will go forward on the basis of co-operation. There will not be any suggestion that there is no suggestion that laws that have been passed here in Holyrood would, in some way, be overridden by decisions taken at Westminster. It is not a matter between the two Governments. The point that Professor Page was making is that this Parliament should always have scrutiny and there should not be an arrangement where using secondary legislation laws can be changed without consulting this Parliament. I am very happy, Ms McAlpine, to give you an undertaking that no laws will be changed of the type that you refer to without consultation with this Parliament. We want to now work through the process because, as Professor Page alluded to, there are a whole range of instruments that may have passed that make reference to the EU, which may need to be changed and we need to find a way in which that is done, not in a way that changes the substance of what they do, but just to ensure that they are continuing validity. Stuart McMillan Thank you, convener. Good morning, Secretary of State. Just a further few things this morning from yourself, such as that you went to maximise involvement in the single market and looking for a bespoke deal. I am a bit unsure, certainly in terms of the whole issue of free movement, but can you tell me what your current position is, please, on whether you do support or do not support a free movement to Scotland? What I support is that it will be for the United Kingdom to determine who enters the United Kingdom from the European Union. There are two elements to the process. One is bringing back the control of immigration from the EU to the United Kingdom. The second part of that is determining what policies we have within the United Kingdom in relation to who comes to the United Kingdom. This week, I attended the Crossmart to Group in Science and Technology event on Tuesday evening. At that meeting, it was suggested that 16 per cent of academics in the UK are from the EU, 12 per cent of academics are non-EU. Last night, I attended the RCN event here in the Parliament and it was put to me at 33,000 NHS nurses. Alone are non-UK. This week, we heard from Professor Sir Timothy O'Shea indicating that Brexit ranges from bad to awful to being catastrophic. From a Scottish perspective, we have the first marine tourism strategy published last year in 2015. That is about promoting and increasing the tourism opportunity across Scotland for sailing and boating. One of the aspects of that is about encouraging people to come from elsewhere, particularly Northern Europe, other EU member states. If we do not have free movement, notwithstanding the academics, nurses and other elements in students and other academia through universities, as well as the range of boating and sailing activities, how are we going to fully benefit if we do not have free movement? I think that there are two separate points. As I have said, the objective in the negotiations is to return control of immigration from the EU to the UK so that we can determine ourselves who comes to the UK from the EU. We already have existing immigration arrangements in place for non-EU citizens. It does not mean that we are going to go from a position of having a very significant number of people come from the EU to having no people. There are all sorts of criteria that currently exist, particularly in relation to specified occupations where there is a shortage of skills. That is certain to continue. It will be about establishing our own immigration system in relation to the EU. Last week, I participated in the inquiry that Westminster colleagues on the Scottish Affairs Select Committee are currently pursuing about inward migration to Scotland. That is a very worthwhile and significant inquiry, because one of the things that is clear at the moment is that of the people who currently come to the United Kingdom in rough terms, only three or four per cent of those people come to Scotland. A very small number of people who are coming to the United Kingdom come to Scotland, and we need to understand why that might be and how we can go about making Scotland a more attractive place for people to want to come to. That is a fundamental part of it, but in relation to your question, there is no intention to stop people coming completely from the European Union, but what we will have is our own immigration system to determine who comes. I am sure that the Secretary of State, if you want to speak to a family in Highlands, he will tell you why they wanted to come to Scotland. Secondly, in terms of the boating and the sailing aspect, are you suggesting that, if we are going to have our own separate immigration system, that there is a potential that we can then see some type of border controls at the marinas, not just in Scotland but across the UK? In terms of border controls, I would hope that we do not have to have border controls at marinas across Scotland. I want people to come here, but we also have to ensure that we do not have, as at the moment, we do not have abuse of the system. As I understand it, for example, your border force keeps a very close eye on all ports within Scotland, just in case people are using those ports to breach the current rules. Thank you very much, secretary. Good morning. It is related to borders. What discussions have you had with colleagues for Northern Ireland over how solutions for the issue of the Ireland and Northern Ireland border will impact on travel, similar to what Stuart McMillan has said? To and from Northern Ireland and from Stranrair, for instance, can you guarantee that there will be no border controls at Stranrair? There are two issues there. Obviously, the common travel area with Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom has existed, I think, from about 1923. It is something that has preceded our membership of the EU and Ireland's membership of the EU. It is something that the Government has made clear that we want to continue to be able to have the arrangement that currently exists. Clearly, that is the position of the Irish Government as well. There are detailed discussions that have already begun as to how that can be achieved. If that is achieved, I cannot envisage why there would need to be border controls at Stranrair, but as you are aware, over a period, many people have expressed concern about access to the UK mainland through Stranrair and that perhaps people had come in through that route that might not have got into the United Kingdom if they had chosen other ways to do so. However, we are committed to looking to ensure that the common travel area can stay in place and detailed discussions are on-going at the moment as to how that can be achieved. Just to be clear, do you rule out border controls at Stranrair? I cannot envisage any circumstances in which there would be border controls at Stranrair. So no border controls in Ireland or between Ireland and Scotland? That is what we want to ensure that we can keep the common travel area as it is at the moment. However, I cannot pre-empt those negotiations because they not only obviously involve the UK Government and the Irish Government. There will be a degree of requirement for the other member states of the EU to agree to such an arrangement, but it is an important component of our discussions currently between the UK Government and the Irish Government. Just on that, you have referred to the common travel area and the prospect of continued free movement of people across the Irish border between Ireland and the United Kingdom. That is quite a different matter from the single market. Does that mean that, if we are not members of the single market, the negotiation must encompass both free movement of people and an end to free movement of goods and services? I think that no one would want to go back to any of the borders of the past that have existed in Ireland. It would be an aspiration to ensure that there were none. There seems to be a tension here between the British Government's position that it needs to take back control of our borders and the willingness to ensure that there are not border controls. The Irish Government yesterday dismissed ideas that there could be, essentially, British border controls in Dublin. Discussion here of discussions between the two Governments to quote the T-shirt. We do not yet know what the British Government is actually looking for here. There seems to be quite a hard tension to resolve, but to go back to Lewis MacDonald's point, does the UK Government accept that to take back control of our own borders, of our own immigration policy, we would have to do so from outwith the single market, as has been repeatedly stated to us? I accept on one level that, if we are leaving the EU, we are leaving the single market, but our access to the single market can continue in a way that does not involve tariffs or barriers and still be able to control immigration from the EU in this country. Clearly, that is something that we should aspire to achieve as part of those negotiations. I think that other leaders from the rest of Europe have made it exceptionally clear that the tension between those two points is perhaps unresolvable. Moving on to the economic impact on Scotland, the committee commissioned a paper from the Fraser Valenston Institute looking at the potential economic effects. Its pessimistic scenario had in the region of 80,000 job losses and a £2,000 drop in average wages over the next decade. I was wondering if you could outline a little bit what the UK Government's evidence-based approach is to deciding what is in the best interests of the Scottish economy. I am pleased to find that not all pessimistic forecasts come to pass, because the forecast for our GDP today was going to be negative 1, and it is actually plus 0.5. Have you felt your respect for Brexit hasn't started yet? Well, I think it has in the sense that the decisions being taken, the process has begun, and impacts are being felt. There are other people who would argue that people are already feeling some impact, some positive, some negative. I think what the GDP figures indicate is that our economy is strong and resilient. There is going to be turbulence, and there is no doubt about that. The Chancellor will, in his autumn statement in November, bring forward a number of specific proposals, but I think that we can be confident that we have a strong and resilient economy. Of course, there are difficult circumstances at the moment for some businesses, but other businesses are taking the opportunity of the lower value of the pound, for example, agricultural businesses and tourism businesses, in terms of the number of people who are coming into Scotland and the rest of the UK. I am not denying in any way that there is going to be turbulence, but there are also going to be positives. On that note, taking aside the UK Government's view on the value of expert advice, the expert advice and forecasting seems to be a debate on the range of how negative the impact is going to be, even if the most optimistic scenarios still had strong negative impacts on our economy. In that case, I can only presume that the UK Government believes that there are non-economic benefits to Scotland taking part in what seems to be a hard Brexit position that is being adopted. Could you outline what the non-economic benefits are in the UK Government's view? I do not think that terms like hard Brexit and soft Brexit are really relevant. They are banded around, but, as I explained to the convener in my opening remarks, what we are looking for is a bespoke deal for the United Kingdom, and, including Scotland, that gets us the best possible arrangement. It is not a hard or soft Brexit option. It is about getting the best deal, which is outcome-based. That is what the Prime Minister is focused on achieving, and that is what we have to work towards. There will be lots of noises off. We will hear lots of things said by all sorts of European leaders, the European commissioner, academics and goodness knows who else about why we cannot have this or why we cannot have that. The deal will be what is achieved in the negotiations. I am confident and positive about our ability to achieve a good deal in those negotiations. I hope that we are not sick of that expert advice, and the UK Government will take it on board. Well, what I can assure you is that we are aware of all the contributions that have been made to this committee, and I think it has been a very valuable exercise in the sense of the engagement that you have achieved. Obviously, we are aware of the views that have come in through that. We are aware of what experts say, but we are also focusing on what real people say and what businesses and organisations across Scotland say. You spoke in your opening statement about creating new trading links and partnerships, and Theresa May recently set out her vision for Brexit and said that a truly global Britain is possible and is in sight. It would be no surprise that it is because we are the fifth largest economy in the world and the UK is growing fast in the G7. It is something that we should be proud of. Can you give the committee reassurances that the UK will make Brexit a success to ensure our continued performance on that world stage? Absolutely. I think that Brexit is an opportunity. It is an opportunity for us to forge a new role on the world stage. It is an opportunity for us to be, I believe, a champion of free trade. Free trade is a good thing. It is concerning some of the language that we hear, particularly in the US presidential election, about not supporting free trade. We have the opportunity to create new arrangements. Even those people who are most pro-EU accept that some of the arrangements that it has with other countries that we currently operate under are not the best possible deals that could have been achieved for the UK's interests. I think that there are lots and lots of new arrangements out there. What really encourages me is that, as I go round Scotland and speak to businesses and other stakeholders, they see those opportunities. They accept that there are challenges, but they see that there are real opportunities for them and their businesses in those new arrangements. They are very optimistic and open-minded at looking at them. Secondly, Ross Greer mentioned the Fraser of Allander Institute. We recently heard evidence from them at a business breakfast. They highlighted that the UK is a significantly more vital trading partner for Scotland than the rest of the EU. Scotland's exports are four times as much with the rest of the UK than they are with the EU. As Secretary of State for Scotland, do you agree that it is important that we prioritise relations with our largest trading partner and do not do anything to jeopardise that? I absolutely agree. The union with the rest of the United Kingdom, as you say, is a value of more than four times the value of the EU market for Scotland. Over the last 10 years, between 2004 and 2014, the proportion of Scotland's exports to the EU fell, and the proportion of its exports to the rest of the UK went up. The rest of the UK is an incredibly important market for Scotland. A million jobs depend on that market. Although I absolutely accept the legitimacy of concerns about access to the single EU market, we have to prioritise the market that is most important to us, and that is the rest of the UK. I want to pick up on where Tavish Scott left off earlier on, given the reference to my former life as fishing minister. In my experience, we found that we did not have a Scottish fishing quota because the quota was allocated to the UK because it was a member state of the European Union. Also, we were unable to take charge of international negotiations because the UK Government deemed that as foreign affairs. Are you saying that if we exit the European Union, there will be a Scottish quota? Are you also saying that Scotland will be able to conduct our international negotiations over fish stocks? What I am saying is that I am going to engage on that issue. I think that I was quite clear, my answer to Mr Scott. I am not proceeding on a presumption. I am agreeing that there are now issues that have arisen because we have begun the process of leaving the EU, and that those issues need to be addressed. I think that the best way to address those issues is through engagement. Clearly, from the way that you phrased the question, you have a view as to what the end process of that engagement should be, which may be similar to Mr Scott. It might not be the same view, for example, of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. It may not be the same view as other interested parties, but I want to ensure that we have that engagement, because that engagement is always what has preceded changes to the arrangements in the devolved settlement. I have a supplementary question from Lewis MacDonald. Thank you. You said, Secretary of State, a moment to go and answer to our previous question. If we are leaving the EU, then we are leaving the single market. You will be aware that some of our nearest neighbours in north-west Europe are out with the European Union but are inside the single market. When you come to discuss with the GMC next month market access, does that mean that the model that has been followed by Norway and Iceland is simply one that will not be considered, or is that something that the UK Government is prepared to discuss with the devolved administrations? It is certainly something that we are prepared to discuss. I would hope that it is not a necessary arrangement because the access that we have managed to secure for the UK from the single market is what meets Scotland's and the UK's needs. The Prime Minister is very clear to the First Minister when we met on Monday that all options will be looked at. You accept that it is perfectly possible to be within the single market but out with the European Union? I accept that there are a number of existing arrangements in place. I also accept, however, that we are proceeding for our own bespoke arrangement, which is not the same arrangement that Norway or Switzerland or Iceland or any other country would currently have. I understand those arrangements. At the very start of the process of engagement, when I met Fiona Hyslop, who was then responsible for those matters, on 24 June, I said that there was no manual on the shelf to determine how all of this would work and that we would be open to look at options. That has continued to be the case. I am looking forward to, as I understand, the publication imminently of the Scottish Government's proposals because, obviously, we want to look at those. What is the supplementary very quickly from Stuart McMillan and Ross Greer? In a reply to Rachael Hamilton that you spoke about free trade, but in terms of having a bespoke agreement out of the single market but having access to the single market, do you therefore think that the UK will still have free trade arrangements with the rest of the EU? I would envisage that we would want to have that maximum access to the EU single market rather than having individual arrangements with members of the EU. I understand that you cannot have individual arrangements with the member of the EU. Very briefly, to follow Rachael Hamilton's question about Scotland's relationship with the rest of the UK, if this Parliament was to decide that that relationship needed to be reexamined through a referendum, would your Government, whilst obviously taking a clear position, be willing to grant the section 30 order to allow that to take place? Obviously, I do not support being another referendum held. I believe that the people of Scotland made their decision on 18 September 2014 and, in accordance with the Edinburgh agreement, which both Governments signed, that decision should be acknowledged. Therefore, in relation to the consultation on the referendum, I feel that it is unnecessary and unhelpful. The feedback that I get from most businesses that we go around is that they want that issue taken off the table because they believe that it is creating undue uncertainty. However, in relation to the specific of your question, the one thing that I acknowledge in that consultation is that it accepts that, if another referendum were to be contemplated, it requires the agreement of the UK Government and legislation in the UK Parliament. To ask it again, if this Parliament decided that that was to take place, would the UK Government grant such a section 30 order? What I have just set out is that agreement would be required with the UK Government for such a referendum to take place and legislation would be required in the UK Parliament. We do not know then. No such proposal has been brought forward to the UK Government. Just to conclude, I was interested when you were talking about the GMCEN and you are talking about dovetailing with other meetings that are happening. Will the devolved administrations have the opportunity to discuss issues of importance to them and put their position set out clearly at the GMCEN before the meetings of the cabinet Brexit sub-committee? What is envisaged in terms of developing the work programme is that the work programme is dovetailing with the other important elements of the decision-making process. That is what the objective is. That was fully understood at the GMC. It would not serve any purpose and it would not be productive or helpful to be discussing things that had already proceeded in a different direction. It is attempting to achieve the engagement with the devolved administrations at the point where they can influence what the outcome is. The actual shape of the deal, so ahead of the cabinet meeting? Well, ahead of whatever processes are going on around it, yes. I think that we will be very pleased to hear that you are attending the Brexit sub-committee. Is that the first time that you have attended the Brexit sub-committee? Well, I am not giving a running commentary on the number of committees met who has been present at them. I go back to what I said at the start. I will ensure that Scotland's interests are represented both in terms of what that committee does, both in terms of what the GMCEN does and in terms of what the cabinet does. The Brexit sub-committee has already met to discuss trade and immigration, which I think we have all agreed are very important issues for Scotland. Were you at that meeting? It sounds as if you have not been to any of them so far. I know that you want to draw me into giving a running commentary, which I alluded to with Mr Scott. I am absolutely satisfied that my role allows me to contribute not just to that committee, but to the cabinet discussions and to the whole range of other discussions that are taking place, which will ensure that we get Scotland and the UK the best possible deal from this process. I am sorry to press you, but you are giving me the very distinct impression that you have not attended one of the Brexit sub-committees of the cabinet. Whatever impression I am giving you, what I am not giving you is a running commentary on those committees, who attends and what was discussed. At that point, we will suspend the meeting and go into private session.


Hi, how are you doing? So we're here to talk about provis and probably all thinking what is a provis. We'll get to that. So let's go introduce ourselves. Presenters. I'm Delita Bowman. I live in Virginia and I'm working with Cromat Source right now. I run the training program. We have a paid training program with anybody public and joint. And I also spend a majority of my time as a sales engineer so I'm estimating all the projects. I'm Steve Zipfel. I'm the Director of Technology at Cromat Source. I've been building which was in 2009 and we have motorcycles and I play guitar. And obviously I have no hobbies because I didn't put anything online. So Cromat Source is based in Chicago. We are a fully remote company based in Chicago. We specialize, if you want to specialize in anything, we do a lot of local government, counties, cities, some, I guess I'll take my mask off. And higher education, community colleges that come are, I guess, niche. So with that, as we'll see, we kind of leverage that and that's why we've developed Provis. It's because we have these kind of articles that we work with all the time. Agenda today, what we're going to do is just kind of tell you a little bit about what is Provis. We're going to install it to show you how quickly it installs and what comes with it. You know, how to create some landing pages. This is a layout builder blocks mashup, so with components on top of that for the styling. We'll talk about the upgrading path, what we're doing, you know, some theming and then what our roadmap is. As Steve will mention, Provis is an open source project. They have it listed on dribble.org as a project so it can be downloaded, you can use it. We're developing it so that it can be used by anybody who wants to start a quick site. So the next topic is what is Provis? So we get there, we get to that. So basically what Provis was was born out of, you know, agency work. We had so many RFPs, so many jobs and we're always creating the same content types, a lot of the same views, a lot of the same text lines, that kind of stuff. And so we thought, well, everyone wants out of that calendar. So we packaged it up in the distribution as a kickstart. And then we added in a bunch of web components, things like that, so that we could just kind of go in, go to the layout builder and start just kind of creating really robust pages. Yeah, basically, since you hear content types, we've kind of went back and looked at the ones, news, events, FAQs, things like that. People is one that we've come across, you know, the board of directors and the faculty, those lists are often, and we've tried to make them as un-opinionated as possible. So news really has a title, a body, and an image, you know, most of the time you need more than that, but that's a good starting point, so you're not pulling things back out after you've installed it. And kind of like that. The site components, we have some pre-designed web components, they're all based on bootstrap, some cards, carousel, things that are already themed and designed within the theme that comes with Provis. It allows you to kind of create a landing page and then start adding those, you know, large hero image and four-card sliders, carousels, and things like that. We have advanced calendar that's built on full calendar. We've actually provided some accessible fixes that were pushed back in, so it's more accessible out of the box now. It's a composer project, so it's going to be maintained. You just composer create a project and set it up. It comes with a theme that's based on bootstrap and distribution, so it's really easy to install, to maintain, if you've worked with your book, you've worked with Provis. So like Steve said, we did add some content types into the distribution into the package, because we identified that those were things that almost every site asked for. However, as we'll see when we do an installation of it a little bit later, we don't say you have to have a user, you don't have to have a person. You're able to select that at the beginning of your site, and if you don't want them, they're not installed. But if you want all of these different content types, they're already kind of pre-packaged. It's a very un-opinionated, we tried to keep it very simple, just to keep the minimal fields on the content types, but the ability to expand those to meet the exact needs of your project. We have features, it's not features as in the old features in D7 time, but the package and the events calendar is a feature because it has events that you can create that are displayed on the calendar or displayed in a list, a views list or something. Site alerts, we have a content type that's a site alert because a lot of our local government people and colleges, they need alert banners on their sites. So we package that up. Our provis theme is just the web components on top of each of those blocks to do the styling on them. So that's kind of our provis feature. It's a very minimal installation as far as what's included because we didn't want to, as Steve will talk about in a minute, this is provis 2. provis 1 is a little different. So yeah, it shifts with these components, like Steve said, the card style, the four-card grid, a grid of four cards or multiple cards. The hero image is a large one like for your homepage. You can also choose to be a shorter one for your interior pages. There's a couple of variations on cards. I mean, it's very typical type of components that you'll see everywhere. So yeah, wait, what about provis 1? So obviously we're here to talk about provis 2. provis 1, big red letters. We put this everywhere so I'll always support it. It was kind of born out of the same idea mixed with what we just built and it got packaged up and into something. And it worked really well, but it didn't age really well. So six months down the road it started to grow a lot of technical value. And we realized that it was something that you would download and spin up and it was tied to Travis, it was tied to Doxel. And you needed to use all those tools if you wanted to use provis. Yeah, it just became really difficult to maintain. And so we thought hard and learned some lessons. And what are those lessons? Make less assumptions. And to make it less complex out of the box, we wanted to make sure that when we were saying, I don't know if you can probably repeat all of them all again, it's not opinionated. It was a really good kickstarter for agency work talking about the local governments and healthcare high-end backings. We've seen repeated requirements. So let's start with the MVP on everything and then go from there. Yep, we switched to use a distro. It allowed us to maintain the code. It allowed us to make it installable. It allowed us to separate our features so that you didn't have to get this monolithic website installed and then start putting things out, which was the home of the college of provis one. And just make it easier to continue the community. I was supposed to say to contribute to the community. So, yeah, we'll get to installing provis. So, I mean, it's probably going to look really familiar. And I said this, we do have this line through a lot of work so you can download it and play with it, expand it, whatever you need to do. And, Steve, you need to go ahead and install it. There you go. And yeah, find bugs, tell us what's wrong. Yeah. File a ticket. So, yeah, let's just make everyone see something similar to that. And now we've got a composer package up packages. So, we maintain that, we push updates out. provis, from an update standpoint, it's not really supposed to be something that, you know, we're going to be pushing a lot of updates to the features just because of the nature of it. But, you know, the installer has some custom code. There's a little bit of custom code in the module too. If a security issue arises, you can push that out and make it more available. And then, we're going to use doxel for this particular demo just because doxel is what we standardize on the format. We do have some getting started docs that actually show installing provis and lambda. I mean, it'll work. I'm a D-Dead user and I never do a five dollar show. So, yeah, it works everywhere. Yeah, and that was one of the, with provis one was, you know, we were tied. It was, you had to do everything through doxel and we just didn't feel like that was a good choice if we were going to make it available to anyone to be able to use and list it. Not only for, you know, even internally, we have some people that would prefer to use some of these. Yeah, and then when the M1 app came out, there was a lot more issues with doxel running on this version of Docker desktop and what so. This allows, you know, anyone to use the tools like this in other words. And this is just, yeah, as we go through, one of the install items is like, like I think Demetri mentioned earlier, you can pick and choose what you want to install and go ahead and the modules. So if you decide here that you didn't want something, you can uninstall it. If you didn't install something that you didn't want, you can install it just the normal way. Yeah, that's the difference between, I think, doing it as a profile and doing it as we've done it with modules.  If you decide you want a feature or you don't or a color feature. If you don't want one of the packages, one of the modules, you can just turn it off or try to load if you want. I'm going to put it too there in case I've already done that. And then, yeah, just, I think everyone's seen this before. You know, maybe too crazy. But it, we've set it up, actually I'll talk about how we've set up Composer a little bit. So we've set up Composer. We actually have a mean Composer file that's in a subfolder. We do it kind of like how Pantheon does it for their integrated Composer. We have a mean Composer file that you shouldn't touch. That's the stuff that's produced. And then there's one in your root where you want to start adding things you can add there. And it kind of keeps it nice and clean for updates and all that. It should only take a second because it is supposed to be in your minutes. There we go. And then it only takes a second. And then the longer part is actually installing. Installing your code. And we won't make you watch that. We'll show you what it's done. We'll talk a little bit later. Part of our roadmap down the road is to actually add more documentation to, you know, for using your own local development. I think we have, should we have someone do that now? Some documentation. Not for DDAF. We have, yeah, Lando and Doxel. And one of the other things we're going to be doing is just kind of making our refills for our CI public that ties into it. But again, you can use whatever you want. It is Drupal. It's kind of a nice part. Someone getting towed. We'll go back to the slides. All right, that's it. Sorry about that. There it is. That's good. So that was the install demo. Creating content. The installation is just standard Drupal, you know, setting up a Drupal site with the exception of being able to choose all the different features or packages, modules that you want to install.  But the information is there. Just see what we've logged in here. The demo is always great, aren't they? Yeah. You can be able to see it or not. This is a typical page, but it's not a good one. So this is pretty much it out of the box. A little bit of content has been created. You know if it wants 15 million or over a year. So there is a page with these blocks there. Yeah. So this is kind of a page that we put in here with just some examples of some of the blocks, like the hero image. I mean they're very typical things that you're going to see everywhere. Hero image followed by this one is just image on the right. Text kind of a card on the left. Switching back and forth. We have the accordion that's used a lot for FAQs that we see. File list where we've tied in with some views. Our buttons are in there. We have this feature of statistics because we found a lot of places like that particular feature, that component that we added. Different styles of cards. Circle image on the top. Button styles. And see if there's anything else in here. Block quotes. You know an events list instead of a calendar. This is something that we've included. And like I said some of the styling is kind of opinionated but all of that is easily changed in the theme. You can change some of the CSS to go with things to make them look a little different. This is another kind of upcoming events list. We have a tab feature where it flips between the horizontal tab to be able to think. So just kind of an example of some of the components that you can add in. This one has a background image. You can't see it here but just a background image with some text on top of it. I'm just going to look at a couple of these. If you look at the layout tab like you would normally do. It's pretty standard layout builder with sections with placing the blocks in there. Trying to figure the accordion. You're not going to be able to see this very well. Choosing the heading level. The alignment how you want it to show. There's very typical standard Drupal layout builder look. We have added on our side bar. I wish you could see this. The blue bar there on the right says create custom block. That's where all of our custom block components are listed. You can see there's an accordion. I'll try to read them off so you can see them. Accordion, a basic text block. A button, just a standard button that you can choose which style of button it's going to be. Your card, a CTA call to action, a divider line if you just want to put a line in between your content. A files list. The files list allows you to choose any of your files that are already in your system. PDFs or something because we see a lot of that. They want a list but they want to curate the list. They don't want to use lists that just pulls everything in. So we have that files list available. We have this thing called a group and that allows you to choose the display of a group of content. In this case we could do a carousel of it. A four card feature. Our four card feature is one large say blog post on the left with a stack of three additional blog posts on the right or content. A grid of two, grid of three, grid of four. These are just some easy things for content editors to be able to pull in. You can do the item display, you know, whether you want the image to be a circle, image to be on the left or right. And then you can choose which content type you're working with. So in this case I can choose blogs, events, the landing page, all the things, any of the content types that we've added to the system. The person, you know, how many we're going to do, we can make it, you know, choose the number that we're doing. Obviously if you're doing the four card feature of one blog post, you know, you're going to choose, there's going to be four. You're not going to have a lot of choice in there. You can do the visibility, you know, choosing, like I said, who can see it. You know, is everyone or is it restricted to a role? And you can add the blog. So it looks like we've just configured a lot of these with some options. And it's really one of those where you just go in and start playing with them and you can pull the things in. We do have a page that we show all of the different components. This one is, you know, we have a media image, just nothing but media, the banners. And that stat group one that I showed you a minute ago, where we can add the title and then we add a new custom block. I said it's one of our parts of our roadmap is to improve the UI here, to improve this look of the layout builder. Because we know it has some issues, you know, just making it more intuitive for the content editors. When you start adding all the complexity and saying, you know, add multiple blocks in to the display, it just gets a little bit messy. It's kind of like, you know, paragraphs, you know, they're all nested in there and people get confused on them. So we're trying to make this a little bit better. But anyway, just creating the custom blocks and add them and it adds it into the content. Anything else you wanted to show, Steve? I'm trying to show quickly just like creating, like people started writing pages for scratch or something. So what we'll do is just kind of start from scratch on the page. So we included a content type called landing page. You can obviously use the other on any page, but we found it spoke to our clients that they wanted to create a landing page. So we'll go there. So just for the layout, add a block here, custom block. Yeah, so I'm going to go find the large banner, which is basically our hero. No, we put that here off today. So I'm just going to use something that we already have. Interesting. Just try that again. See, I already fresh the page. And Docker. Dior or something. Of course, demo it as, yeah, what's going on there. Since we're here, I click that Save and install. See if it moves along, then I know it's not Docker. It's interesting. So this is always a possible, possible issue. And you're doing a lot of demo. But it's kind of strange. Yeah, actually never had this happen. No, we didn't. We should have done something similar today. And so the advantage of doing the way we've done it is we've kind of simplified it so that, you know, almost anybody can pick this up and do it except when it cracks out like that. You know, you don't have to have. The first Provis One was tied, and it's not a bad thing, but it was tied to Storybook and a lot of, you know, there was a lot of other technologies you had to include in order to be able to use it. And that just increased the complexity for the developers that were working on it. By doing it this way, we've done it now, and kind of taken some of that out and simplifying it. It just, you know, for agency work, it works very well because we can set up a site pretty quickly and get started. And then we can apply our custom theme to what we've already added. We have the basic components built, and almost any site is going to have some of those same components. They may look a little different. You may have rounded, you know, corners on your cards, you know, you may add a fancy element or something to your theme, but a lot of the hero images and hero image, it just depends on where you put your open language or text or whatever, and all of those things can be changed in the theme. All right, so Pantheon to the rescue. We have a site up on Pantheon that's working. It's even faster than the local, so... So yeah, so I've just added the banner at the top, which is where my local... So I believe I'm on my computer. So right now I'm going to do that kind of... We have cards with the text on the right and image on the left, and vice versa. And, you know, that'll show up one way. The other option we can find is that you can control it a little bit more by using sections and setting, you know, the column widths and stuff like that. And then just kind of, you know, add text, the basic texture. The cards are hard to place. The card component is really good if you're doing, you know, a lot of the used list of up-down quotes or something like that. If you're doing one-off landing pages where they want, you know, an image on the right and text on the left, it's almost easier to do it in a two-column layout and add the text on one or the other. Media on the other? Media on the other. Rather than using... I mean, you can use the card, but... Yeah. Then if they want to change the image out, it's a little easier to change the image, change the text. You're going to have to go into the card and do it. They can just do it strictly on the text. Yeah, it creates a little bit more... So this gives a bit more flexibility to do the same thing. It depends what you're looking for. The card might be perfect to make me use a bunch of spots or you might want to do something like this. So I just added those two. And just see what happened.  All right, so... Any questions about...? So on components, they have larger images. How do you guys handle the responsibility? The responsiveness? Do you use, like, the regular media content? Are you going to be skating on the breakpoints? On the pink or...? Yeah, so we're actually just... Because we're using... Oh, no, triple, sorry. Well, it's triple, but bootstrap. We're really kind of... just kind of leveraging... anything that comes with bootstrap. So the breakpoints and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I was just gonna say... Yeah, I was just gonna say... Yeah, I was just gonna say... Yeah, I was just gonna say... Yeah, so on the... the dependency management on the... on the technicalist, you guys have the... also the dispersion on it? Yeah, so we can. So there's a question. Do you mean like, do we make it available, like, as updates come out? Or are we... Well, you have a really out of the box tool when you start. My question is, on that out of the box tool, using it back to... it depends on the... Does that comes with the update of bootstrap every time bootstrap gets updated? So it would... If there was some sort of security issue, we would update ours. How you handle it after. So you could either install it with Composer and then just kind of, you know, Composer update your particular package that you want and you can control it that way and, you know, bootstrap's in there. So you could co-actively do that kind of thing. Or we would probably... Anything like that, our goal down the road is to make anything with the security... Anything that we put out that a security update becomes available for will update ours. So right now it's provis2.0.4. So if there was a security issue for something that... that ships would provis, then we would update our... It could be just updating our Composer so that it pulls in the right one. That's not...  The distribution... It's a... Basically, once you... It's a pick starter. So once you install it, then if you want to update core or if you want to update a module or whatever... But you were mentioning there was two Composer on the bottom. Yeah. So one of the ones was that we just kind of want to make sure that... You know, you can do whatever you want with it when you get it. But we wanted to make sure that, you know, certain... Certain packages were associated with it. So even just from our standpoint of maintaining it, when we start working on our own projects, we want to be able to go, okay, no, this is part of the Brodder score. So when we're maintaining, like our client work and things like that, we have a separation between the two. But yeah, there's no reason why you can't update it. We'll have to put some docs around it in the... in the sub folder, the upstream configuration folder. And then once you update it, it actually starts putting in, you know, like it does Composer things, right? So now you've got Composer.lock in there and you've got, you know, all of your rendered folder and things. You don't want them in there because it's actually just including that Composer from the root. So you always want to run it from the root. It's a bit of a funny thing, but it's slowly doable. And you could choose to update or we will update ours and then we would do Composer update and it would pull in even the latest the latest Provis and one of the other items. So it's not meant to, we're not going to be pushing out new features and things like that. Just because it's in the nature of it, it's config, so we don't want to force a config import and overwrite who you've changed. So it's really supposed to be a kickstarter, but like I said, anything that comes out security wise that, you know, falls under Provis at all, then we'll put or push something out. You would get new stuff, potentially new features, but they won't get installed unless you proactively go and install them because during the installer or, you know, install it then you would get new features if there's any new any new config that comes in because obviously we're going to keep updating it but we're not forcing those updates to happen on live sites for features. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I know that you were saying that I'm wondering if you build this to work with Pantheon options? No, not, we one of the early things we did was made it work with Pantheon upstream and so I used to work with Pantheon and so I'm familiar with some of the separations and I like the idea so I just kind of use that architecture in our I think as well. It'll work there but it'll work anywhere. You just have to, as long as you can run Composer from the root it'll pull it in and do what it has to do. Any other questions? Sit down, it's always complete. Oh, actually no. You want me to complete that? Yes, I do. Oh, yeah, so the next one is just theming. I think Damia touched on this. You know, the thing we recommend is, again, actually this kind of speaks to what we're just talking about is to create a sub theme off of the probis bootstrap theme that's in there and just that being the reason for that is I don't think we have any custom code in or at the moment if at some point there's custom code in the theme that does anything and we introduce a security issue. We want to be able to roll that and push a patch to that without affecting anything that we're doing. So just, you know, typical best practices really. And the we can't read that at all. So on the side there's an image of our some of our, one of our models and we have, you know, inside our scss slash global there's a variables file and the variables we have everything outlined and commented for changing things like primary color, secondary color, you know, border radius, border colors. So you can actually go in leave the theme the way it is kind of start adjusting it just through the CSS we can start changing.  So it's like high level changes but it allows you to kind of do it quickly. So we do have a bit of road map and we're talking about one of the things we want to do is more components and installable demo content. So as part of the install kind of like Pimani we want to be able to have it so that people can actually take it for a test drive and actually see content in it right out of the box. We want to add a photo gallery and we're putting together a bit of a migration toolkit some of that's you know, included you know, required modules some of it's docs and just kind of best practices around migration with Provis. More robust theme configuration tools. So the stuff we just talked about that's that you have to go change in SAS files. We want to make that part of the theme so that's a bit more configurable from the UI. We want to add some extra themes. We do have some demo sites that we're building that hopefully will allow us to create some different themes. So we have some choice out of the box and I did need to mention this but we have an initiative right now where we're trying to clean up that the admin portion of LeoBuilder. You know there's probably some JavaScripts and things to clean up. Some of those nested forms for buttons and things like that. So we can just make it a little more in terms of a better user experience and at some point triple recipe so, you know, how do we like that's coming so how do we work with that? Yeah, that may be Provis 3 I mean we kind of started down the road with Provis 1 pivoted to Provis 2's market creation and now that the recipes initiative is happening we may actually find some things in there that we'd rather do at play that recipes are going so who knows but right now it's a decent project and it's able to spin up a basic site you know site building could pretty much pull the site together within a couple of hours I recently did that for a really small site Provis in changed a few colors in the background and they were like, whoa you know, they have a website and it's not Wix not maybe not as easy for them but it works well for one all things but the main thing that we've done it for is to be able to crank out some sites a little bit quicker to give the kickstart so that we don't have to start from scratch every time the other thing that's really nice about it is that everyone on our team works with the same starting point so they know this is how we're doing calendar there's obviously times like any agency work that someone's going to come in and they're going to have just one requirement that blows it all out of the water but we find that more often this is actually a really good starting point first to start with I mean if anyone's interested in in a project where everyone's more than happy to put an issue on and dribble all the work and make a suggestion or a thought about how we can do something different and we're going to continue to have it as an open source project that we all predict anyone who wants to do that with it so this is a PR awesome so we got there's some links our Drupal project page on the Drupal project page the getting started docs there it's kind of just a one of the first docs we've got out there just kind of as you can tell I think we we put our non beta version up two weeks ago maybe but I think so it's still we've been using it for a while but we just got it on with 2.0 or 2.0.4 version up on Drupal.org not that long ago so we're just catching up with docs packages repo there and get hub repo and I think all of that is actually on our D.0 project page for pros oh yeah well should we do we have time for any questions? before we shut it off what's the part of the life of this project do you have intelligent new features at the same time what kind of effort do you just keep this running it's actually not too bad because a lot of times what happens is we'll spin up the site we have a new new client and we're spinning up with Prodys and because that is one of the things that we found with Prodys 1 is that software doesn't age well when it's not being used right we're using it often internally so when we spin it up we'll see oh we've got an update disk we're also supporting a lot of our clients we're using it so honestly one of the things on a recent project we showed the calendar kind of list the cards of calendar items that was actually something that a client wanted that look and feel of their events we were able to pull that out of their slide kind of pop it back into Prodys it wasn't something that we had initially in Prodys and so that's what we try to do is leverage as we're creating a site for clients anything that we can pull back into Prodys and that we think is useful that was kind of one of our main questions that I think is just going to keep growing and later there's more meetings there that you wanted to tell before the project yeah yeah so we're trying to keep it they're trying to keep it still pretty light and like unopened it so if we do add features they're going to be the ideas that we're going to make them as lightweight as possible so that you don't have to start tearing things up to make it work for you that was the case with Prodys 1 like on the person staff content type like the department opinionated I mean it had everything on there it had your email, your phone number your department name your reference field to taxonomy or department you know I mean goodness it had there must have been 20 fields on that person thing and it's like okay so now we don't need that on this we need to go in and strip out all these these fields from it so that's why we went this way with just adding a person basically as a name and a sort of bio or something I think there's a couple of fields on person like I think we have email phone or something just because it's kind of normal but like if they're not there they don't get but we don't have department or faculty a member of there's not a great deal of people like LRs and awards and just that yeah yeah exactly yeah we definitely keep it there are some things that we do encounter and because we're using provis we try to say okay well let's make this as what we would put in provis and then add it into the provis itself pull it into the client work and then elaborate on it and we feel like we've got most of the things we want but there are like we saw the roadmap there are a few other features and then the other thing we really want to kind of put out there is our CI recipe it's well you know it's it's with Travis so you know it's opinionated in the sense that we've set it up with Travis but we're going to have a repo that you can just pull in and set some values in the environment file or something like that and then we should be able to start using it however you want and we're trying to set it up so that you could like it'll work with other vendors just by changing your hosting environment but it's not ready for crime time and that's like Steve said I think one of the good things about using the client work to try not to make it too bloated is that we don't we try to do the minimum project minimum viable project for provis and then add one to that for client you know specific things for client work and not pull everything back into provis but being able to start and have everybody start from the same starting point because it's like they know what modules, they know what features are going to be in there with and then they can expand on it how do you guys communicate all the features to all people using that so what new features there is and no actually so I'm really at this point it'll be probably a media release on LinkedIn we'll probably update our d.do project page that kind of thing and now that we have an actual release it's probably going to be on whatever we want but any other questions? Of course not


You know, definitely tough every time you take a loss. Not the way we wanted to start the season, but at the end of the day, it's a long season. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of things for us to learn from this and continue to grow. And our best football is definitely still ahead of us. I mean, I think there's room for everybody to get better. Everybody made some mistakes out there today. And I feel like there was a play out there I could have made, you know, if I just run through the quarterback and sack him right before he'd been a fourth down, you know, right before on a two minute drive before half. So I mean, we all we all got stuff we can get better at.  I mean, as a coach, we appreciate him, you know, putting the onus back on itself, but we as players got to buy, got to do better as well, too.  It sucks when you're so close to getting there. And let's just go back to preparation, you know, and executing on the day of the game. So we got to make those plays when they're there, you know. We can't, oops, we can't keep being like almost head or almost, almost because it's not getting the job done. You know, so we have to make the play when it's there. I mean, I feel like we got some good pressure on him. Just getting, just didn't get him down, but he definitely is very, very impressive with evading, invading, you know, defenders and making throws on the run. So he definitely, definitely impressed me today and he was very, very strong, strong guy, you know.  So got to, got to definitely give credit where credit is due. And so they got, they definitely got a good one and which none but, you know, Katia's success is always good to see, see somebody who overcome, well, he's overcome to have success. But as a competitor, we got to be better and do what we need to do to win some games. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say that, you know, some calls definitely didn't go our way, but you got to control the controllables. There was some questionable, I mean, as always every game going to have questionable calls, refs doing it, they know they're doing the best they can man.  So whenever it happened, if it happened, we got to respond, they got a job to do, we got a job to do. And that's to play the game. They got to call the game.  It's still a lot of optimism. We feel good about this team. We believe in the guys we have, we believe in the leadership we have. And there's a lot of football out there.  So, you know, we talked this one up, we got 16 more to go, and we got a lot of good football to play, a lot ahead of us. You know, that's what I work for. You know, I don't come to work to prepare to lose. I don't come to work to prepare to get beat. I come to work every day, day in and day out to put my best foot forward and push other guys to put their best foot forward.  But if you just quit, you ain't never gonna get over that hump. So, I've been here, I've been here through some tough times, and I'm gonna keep pushing day in and day out, you know, push my teammates to be better. And because we're gonna get over that hump, and we're gonna keep pushing, and we're gonna keep working. And nothing nobody say or anything, you know, it's gonna stop us from waking up, going to work, putting our best foot forward. You know, our circumstances don't define us. We define where we're at and we're gonna definitely put our best foot forward.  And they approach to the game and what they wanna get done and spreading this out and get guys running sideline to sideline. So, obviously, as a rusher, you want them to hold on to the ball a little bit as a defensive lineman.  So, we gotta be better on the edges, and we gotta be better at breaking to the stack, and we gotta play what they give us.  You gotta go back to work.  You gotta keep grinding. You know, we're not front runners, and you know, when it gets tough, that's when you gotta go harder. You know what I'm saying? Because success is just right over that mountaintop. You know what I'm saying? You gotta keep pushing. And if you quit, I mean, that's a reflection on yourself as yourself. You know what I'm saying? But as long as you fight and put your best foot forward, that's all you can do, and the results gonna take care of themselves. So I mean, circumstances don't define me. There's not gonna define this team, and there's a lot of football left.