All right, we are live I Refuse to believe it. I'm not even looking. No, we're actually live. It's true dammit That so no no more of your Talking about bad things Okay, don't say okay. Don't say anything rude about anybody else and we gotta we don't want to get canceled I'll get right on that I'll get right on that. All right. So now that we're live if we can get some yeas or nays on the audio This is me speaking some words Tyler. You speak some words This is me speaking some words and I also just now saw what you were talking about with the black bars around me Yeah, I like it I have words already and Josh is speaking some words as well. All right, so some nays or nays in the audio are in the chat And whether that the audio is good. I will see if I can fix that damn transform again Yeah, and if I am quiet, don't worry. This is to be expected I'm having Different audio issues now I know I just need to get it like I've got the perfect Like Matt has hooked me up with a perfect audio like DAC now an XLR setup now I just need to replace the microphone To something that like, you know actually picks up audio from further than Kiss distance away. Those black bars just are not going away. I Don't understand why OBS must hate me. You just need to zoom in Audio is average podcast audio quality. Perfect We don't want great. We'll never shoot for great here We're just we're just going for average podcast quality If you came to the podcast expecting professional audio you were Obviously expecting to be disappointed I think I'm probably the most professional out of all this because you know, I'm just using an old DJ set Wait, hold on. You're using an old DJ set. Yes. The only thing that's relatively new is the microphone the mixer that I'm using is From like 1998 and then it's literally outputting in a 3.5 millimeter jack out to the computer capturing it analog And that's how my audio has been for the past two years Like I swear like that's like that is how you set yourself apart is Just by like your odd setups. You're like, yeah, so everything has a story behind it Like I don't just compile. I have 20 Gen 2 servers in a closet That's like 150 degrees and it sounds like it sounds like you're opening up a portal when you open the door And that's how I compile To be fair the only things that's making noise in there anymore is the is the pies because you know They got the PoE hats with the fans on them and their their fans are only like 15 millimeters And what are you using the pies for again? One runs a home assistant deal one runs my next cloud instance the third one runs my DHCP services as well as pie hole The fourth one doesn't do anything right now But it will have it will do one of these things one of these days It's probably gonna become like the dedicated package server for the rest of the pies because uh, I sold the I sold the big Dell servers parties parties is it are you hired for the stream I Wasn't high for the last one, but I have been high for podcasts before you should definitely You should definitely go look at the comment section for that last podcast man Oh, I won't because I already know what 90% of the comments are they're just like They're probably filled with people asking like not not just like asking whether or not I'm stoned They're asking if I'm medically okay because how stoned I look You were you were destroyed in that yeah, I was destroyed last week I needed sleep But I've gotten sleep. I've kind of started to fix my sleep schedule And taken care of myself a little bit when it comes to sleep. So better off this time Okay, so that's good. I'm I'm glad. Um, I think what we're gonna go ahead and do is get started So before out of cast gets cancelled just because I'm here No, if it hasn't gotten cancelled yet, you don't gotta worry about it. Um, I'm pretty sure we've started more podcasts out Talking about porn than not That is true. I mean, we probably had a handful of podcasts that started out with some version of porn talk. Yeah So definitely we're gonna be just fine. All right So, uh, josh, you know how this works. We're gonna do some claps here. It doesn't really matter if there is Possible, but that way I have something to reference So I'm gonna hit record Tyler starts the clapping. So this is gonna be really weird with three people by the way Um, I just turned on the recorder Okay, so give me a second make sure that works Matt, I wish you luck in the sinking this up. Oh, it's gonna be a grand grand grand time. All right I'm gonna hit record in audacity. I'm gonna hit record in obs Uh, tyler, you can count us down.  All right.   It was like five minutes later. They're like Oh, I want to try it again. I really don't I don't think that's true because on my end when I clapped I heard all like all of us clap all at the same time Let's just do it one more time for clarity here just to make sure Okay, count us down again. We'll clap right on zero. All right three two one zero was people in the The people in the chair like that was horrible It's okay. I'll get I'll figure it out. I'm I'm I'm I'm sure it'll sound fine I'm somebody else that's editing this video by the way I'm hoping I am hoping that the audacity is actually recording things properly because you know, I've You've made me change some of my microphone settings. So it looks like it's barely picking me up sometimes So I hope it comes out good Well, if it will find out if not I have the OBS recording so that that's always our backup um, yeah Anyways, cool. So I think I have all the news items ready to go In a browser. I have the show notes open And how many tabs do you have open right now? In fact, if you're in chat right now post how many tabs you have open right now Okay, so I can actually count these because it's tabs groups. So I have four eleven sixteen and four. So that's 20 31 35 um So you guys know me and like my aversion to having a lot of tabs But with me developing here recently Should I count the browser tabs that I have open with my regular usage right now? Or should I include all the open tabs right now?  I have a pinned at the top of the top of my page and like Every now and then I'll get like a notification with just a number of like what's that from? I'm like, oh, that's for that post. There was this one guy that posted that he has like 238 chromium tabs open right now Like man, how much system ram do you have? All right, so I counted them. I have 21 open. Okay. I have six. I beat both of you. You guys are open you Sad sad people I mean like look if we're just counting the tabs that I have open from today like my regular usage I only have And this is including show notes and everything I have Six open so yeah, so I think in the chat ben beat everybody here city at 56 Yeah, that's definitely winning Uh, when I use emacs as my window manager, it would open up all the browser tabs in a separate workspace At uh, at one point I had 56 workspaces opened up in emacs Great Isaac said he's using 11 Gigabytes of ram right now. I Have obs open Audacity open both of them recording discord open Multiple instances of firefox. I'm only using six gigabytes. Oh If we're counting windows right now, I probably have you beat I doubt except for tyler. He's probably using microsoft windows, but you see uh, I'm using I have 17 workspaces right this second I just want to tell you guys with me developing on windows. Um, yeah my ram usage. I win I win You use six gigabytes of ram on idols Yeah, I'm using almost 14 gigs right now and I'm using 38 God dang, what are you doing? What are you doing? Are you compiling genji right now? That doesn't count Uh, no actually what it is that uh, I used a lot of ram disks on my system. So like uh, my my uh My uh system root file folder is actually mounted on tempfs So that makes like the system super snappy, but as a consequence it uses a lot of memory All right, let's go ahead and get started guys I don't know if we ps'd for a while um Okay, so what I thought we'll do is we'll just treat josh as if he's a normal person that's normally here. So I'll go thank goodness All right, then tyler then josh um, so Then we'll continue on all right Everybody welcome back to the next cast. I'm your host matt and i'm tyler and i'm josh. Yeah, that's josh He's the new guy. Uh, so this is the linux cast. We talk about linuxy things Welcome if you're watching live, we do record this live every friday around three o'clock p.m. Eastern time or Late as you know usual, but it happens So if you want to join us live check us out at the linux cast on youtube You can also find us all over the place obviously, but I just want to let you know if you are watching this afterwards We do put timestamps in the Video description and in the comments of the video on youtube and on odyssey That way you can skip the pre-show if you want to because we do bs for well It was about 15 minutes this time So if you want to bypass that stuff time stamps do show up eventually After the stream is done. So just catching that out. So Uh, we always start off the show asking what we've done this week in open source. So tyler What have you been doing this week in open source? Well, um It's kind of twofold. Um, not only have I been doing something in open source. Um, I've also Been playing with something open source.  Um, if you Don't already have a reservation for a steam deck fix it now Um This thing is Like all right for the base model $400 device you can't get anything better. You just can't it it's got it's a full computer So you can do anything on it like period It's got the nice katie desktop, which i'm not a massive fan of katie But I got to be honest The katie on here it's Stable it actually works as intended it so far i haven't had any like user usability issues or katie Fucking up do anything weird And The performance of the device is incredible. Um, I've locked it to 40 fps Frame rate limit or fps limit and then the refresh rate. I've also locked it to 40 fps and I can play doom at ultra settings completely maxed out for like two and a half hours on the device I've also When it goes to sleep i've loaded up. Um, so i've been developing a game That i'm gonna start talking about on my channel here soon, but i've Just kept my head down working on it so I can have something like Really good to show off when I do first show it off But i've been taking test builds and putting them on here and testing them and when you are playing a game You can just put the device in a sleep mode and set it down And like the battery just doesn't drain like it it just doesn't I've I've kept doom alien isolation My test builds open on it for Like one of my test builds I kept open and running on it and then like slept put it into sleep mode And the next day after like 12 to like 14 hours I picked it back up and turned it on and like the battery hadn't even moved like it was It's a fantastic device and then I've been making a game in unity and that's why i'm in Still in windows the game game engines just Are bug happy on linux all of them are but That's something that hopefully we'll talk about in a later podcast because I've had issues with that and I would like game engines to start working on linux But yeah, that's what i've been up to in linux. I let my steam deck reservation pass me by Just It's it's okay. We all make mistakes. I'm not it. I'm just I'm not a gamer Like you know this about me. I'm not a gamer like right now I can't get the only game that I really like to play on fedora and I'm fine with it Like I don't care Like I'm just like whatever like normally when something doesn't work I I distrust right if I can't solve the problem this time. I don't care. Um, you you do have A decent point, but let me just go ahead and say this even if you're not a gamer You can buy one of these for 15 to 30 bucks Pop it in there And then you just plug this up in here And you've got usb ports hdmi out everything and so I have a computer for this Why do I need another one? but I have two computers for this. I have this one And I have that one and I have a gaming laptop. No, but I don't need one Okay, let's do that again. I return to the fact that I'm not a gamer. So anyway, yeah, but but gaming laptops have horsepower So you can like edit videos and stuff like that on the go And that's the main thing like why I have that dock and everything with this is because of that I've actually been using kaden live And um blender on the go mainly blender because I haven't been posting videos or doing anything I've just been game developing.  It's really that's exactly what I want to do is hop into kaden live while I'm at the coffee shop You know All right, josh, what have you been doing this week in open? I've been doing something super spicy here because you know, uh, I recently gave a certain company about a thousand thousand of my dollars to buy multiple devices all which still have not arrived yet But you see I went off and I bought this super unbranded laptop here Uh, there's not a single brand except for like this one sticker Uh, it's a pine book And you know, we got a curl parrot dot live, you know, yeah, yeah, and uh, you know, I also got like this pine phone Of which it's using an awful lot of cpu right now doing a whole lot of nothing All right, so uh, and then have you compiled gen two on your pine phone yet No, but this phone actually well actually I this is a pine phone one and it is running gen two right now Of course it is of course it is. This is literally the last gen two device in my entire fleet Really? Yes Interesting, okay Yes, uh, this pine book is still running man harrow arm because you know, it works Did you just call it man harrow? Yeah, it it works, uh And uh, honestly like I haven't done too much with it, uh, which you know, uh If you guys want to know like an interesting thing for productivity This book operated honda yesterday Move 10 million dollars a product with just with just a pine book because all I need is just microsoft Or it is well not even microsoft. So I just need to open up an excel spreadsheet and be able to read it So Here's my question every time I've just thought about going to buy a pine book pro There's always that warning about warning might have dead pixels. Does yours have the pixel dead pixels? no I always look one of those to come want to buy one, but we'll see I I saw like, uh, you mentioned it the first thing I did on the pine book because I opened up firefox I just opened up like a blank white test page and I full screened it and I didn't see a single dead pixel Oh good Okay, maybe that was an issue with like the first first release run My my second release run like they didn't assemble it quite correctly. So I had the terror department fix it Which uh, you know, uh, I I have this super long blog post I'm going to be posting about like my adventures with with the pine book So, uh, keep keep tuned for that Uh, I think Matt you might have like my contact link in like the description or like in the show notes somewhere at some point Yeah, there it's in the description and in the show notes. It's both. Yeah. Yeah, it's tenley j.com slash stalker So that's how you guys can get ahold of me because But yeah, uh, what we are going to be doing is after like I get get all the devices in In I'm actually going to be daily driving pine 64 devices for the next 30 days And uh, if you're gonna be using that's all I'm going to be using All right. I already have the phone activated I'm adding the pine book pro to my to my cart right now. I'm going to buy it after the show All right, there you go. All right It might take a little while for the for for them to process the order and get it shipped to you because It does ship directly from china What what doesn't these days? Well, that's true, but I mean three months to get my keyboard. So yeah I waited for like almost a year to get my just just wanted just wanted to lay that out there because if you've only ever bought Things off of amazon and get it in two days. Uh, this is coming from china. It might take a while That's why yeah, uh, it's just dead nowadays because everyone's like give it to me now Yeah, but the touchpad does not seem to be super sensitive It does it does work and function, but like, uh, you can't like grab a border of a window and drag it So, uh, that's something that's something I want to see if like, uh, maybe I can work out or maybe I can Because the touchpad is replaceable to see if maybe there's like an upgraded one that might work Oh, that would be cool. Yeah, because uh, you can tear I can just take this Uh back plate off and everything and you can just there's physical wires going to everything. So every the entire thing is swappable Okay Even the emc module is swappable, which I thought that was pretty cool.  Same stuff. I always am up to really so I've been working on my Uh, racing script. I've talked about this like every week for like the last I don't know two months It's nuts I was like everyone who listens is probably just probably thinks that that's all I ever do With linux, but it's the most interesting thing that I do outside of just work You know, if I just said well, yeah, I edited a hundred thousand words this week. That's all I did That would be boring um But interesting what I've been doing this time is that I did a review or a like a first look of archcraft And the thing that sets archcraft apart from everybody else is that they have gone and done all of these themes for open box and bsp wm I'm taking all of those themes And tweaking them so that they'll work on i3 and then adding them to my Script so it's been like I've got two done so far and it's not the easiest thing because they Do not they have not standardized the way they did their Their uh poly bar Configuration some of they they've used to include files for everything on one of them But each of their include files are named something different and have different things in them So some of them they have this the bar separated for some reason some of them they don't it's a mess But that's that's been kind of fun. The other thing that i've been working on is uh So i'm a bit of a hard drive person like like I have a ton of hard drives. I have Uh, I I have six or seven in the computer itself and then I have external hard drives all over the damn place and the Drive that I have in my computer that I store all of my old videos and stuff on is only two terabytes and it was getting full So I decided instead of buying a seam deck that I would invest in something bigger Because it seemed like a better investment to me at the time And so I did some research and I was you know, I asked on twitter and Massed it on where I should go in terms of getting a nas At the end of the day, I decided not to do the nas thing not quite yet mainly because pretty much everyone In the linux community said you should build yourself. So i'm probably gonna do that eventually So what I ended up doing is just getting a 20 terabyte cg drive this time for an external drive and uh, I had to say I've had it for a couple days like the the thing is Tyler you and I have talked about this before those western digital external hard drives those things are loud And they always make you think that they're Half a millimeter away from failing and exploding and spewing parts all over the room, right because they're I mean just it makes horrendous noises Uh, the c gate that I just got it is the most silent piece of Hardware tech that I've ever seen outside of an ssd and it's not an ssd It's it's nuts. It doesn't make any sound at all almost makes you think it's not working But it is like it's working fine It was really it was really weird. It was also expensive as hell, but what are you gonna do everything's expensive? Well, I guess you get what you pay for because we're getting cheaper western digital I've got a collection of old at hard drives You want to talk about some loud hard drives? I got some Fresh out of 1997 Well, that's that's kind of the point is that this western digital is not old Like it's but it's like a year and a half old and it is The day the day came here It was loud and sounded like it was failing It's nuts. Um my 14 terabyte from day one sounded like it was like scraping on something it it sounds Terrible it unless I put so much padding around it that like there's no way that vibrations could leave Anything like essentially if I velcro tape it Around and give it like a whole bunch of velcro all around it Then there's a chance that I won't really hear it But it's still making a terrible noise. Does yours move the desk? Um, I'm pretty sure if I didn't like I've got a lot of rubber mounts around it I'm pretty sure if I didn't have that. Yes, my entire day Their table would shake like mine doesn't move the desk But if you put your hand if I put my hand on this oak desk like this oak desk weighs Probably a thousand pounds. It's nuts If I put my hand on the the tabletop and that was Doing something I could feel the vibrations moving the desk Like that's how horrible that western digital is. It's really weird. Anyways, that's what I basically what I've been doing um Just buying hard drives. Yeah, I know the feeling buying hard drives and and racing Apparently I have gained a reputation for like literally racing. That's all I do It is it is like 60 of your youtube videos. Just you ricing something. No, it's not a bad It's look it's not a bad reputation to have a racing spot I have way too much fun with anyways Yeah, so uh, let's go ahead and move into the contact information So if you want to get in contact with us, you can do so in any in any number of ways The best way to do so is go to the website Linuxcast.org Slash contact all of our links will be there except for josh's his stuff is not there You'll have to find that in the video description But anyways, most of that stuff is there twitter mastodon The store link is there the amazon wish list is there just tons of links to stuff Any way you want to get contact with us. It's all there If you don't if you're lazy like me and would rather just know how to get in contact with us emails Probably the easiest way email at the linuxcast.org is the email address You can find tyler who goes by zany online at youtube.com slash zany og He hasn't posted a video in like a week and a half. I'm just saying this like he's obviously given up on youtube I don't know apparently he's a windows fanboy now and he's just really scared of his audience Just gonna put that out. I'm assuming that that's the reason why he has made a video Anyway, and he has promised us an attempt to stream on the stream the steam deck He's he's promising an attempt.  It's been a long time. It's been a while. It really has been a while Yeah, uh two months ago the nixos video Anyways, uh josh's website is is in the video description as well. That's uh 10 lej.com slash stalker I'm sure you have a way of saying that right 10 lej It is is the year I graduated high school with my last name and the first letter from my first name I didn't even come up with it. Okay Very creative Anyways, you know, you can also subscribe to the linuxcast at youtube.com slash linuxcast make sure you do We're getting like a thousand away from 20,000 subscribers, which is just Bunkers like it's absolutely insane never expected to get there.  This is this is excellent content and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise um Anyways, so every single week Tyler and I in this week we got josh and on the fun We we scour the interwebs for the most latest breaking hard-hitting news that you'll never see on cnn and Probably for good reason So josh, you're gonna get to go first this week. What is your news of the week? Oh, you see my news for a week would not show up on cnn because cnn doesn't even talk about open susah So I Yeah, two weeks ago open susah published a release candidate for the future of open susah leap Which uh, they're which they are sunsetting in 2024 for this new operating system called micro os Which they they have now published the first release candidate For the micro os desktop image The default image uses gnome, but you can build it from the ground up just just like arch Linux And what it does is it's what is this a distribution much like fedora silver blue Except that it you know, it's like an actual rolling release and you know, it actually lets you mess around with the root file system Oh Cool, how is okay, so how is it immutable? prepared something like the steam deck or Silver blue. I mean is it basically okay, so When you boot into an environment on micro os you're actually booting a read-only butterfs snapshot So that that's where it's immutable. It's not using it. It's not using a read-only file system like, uh Say like os tree Now what it is that you're just booting into like an old snapshot and then you can run the transactional dash update shell and now you can actually get into a a uh the uh current or the upstream branch of Your root file system and you can just mess around with everything in there So you're basically using like a git system Yeah, basically Cool. It does sound and And because you know, it's using the zipper package manager, uh, you're basically pulling down git repositories Like you would if you were running tumbleweed anyway for like your updates So you're not downloading like the whole package binary. You just downloading what's changed about the binary That's pretty good. Yeah It sounds sounds very interesting. I might have to give that it's super interesting And uh, when you're just sitting there daily using it, you don't really notice it which is also fantastic For you, why would you pick it over silver blue? Why would I pick it for silver blue? Yeah, uh, so the biggest thing about silver blue is that the I have like these three applications that I use for my dungeon and dragons campaign It's like you've watched my channel at all like most of the video most of the videos there are Stem from like me just posting my dungeon dragons campaign videos on my youtube channel, which I don't really do anymore But uh, there there are two really big tools that I use dungeon draft and wonder draft You can run them from the from the home directory, which you you can do but you're not really supposed to do Or you can or you can put them into opt If you're using anything like silver blue or or canoi Or a canoi however to heck you're supposed to pronounce it so, uh When when you go to install those packages you You're supposed to install them into slash opt so that all the users on the system and that people don't really just can use them But that's generally the better better place to run them silver blue and kino. I don't let you post Uh anything into slash opt. Yeah, you can't put anything in the root directory, you know Yeah, you can't put anything outside of home So in micro os you'll be I can I can I can also do the same with nyx os too But uh, you know that comes down with like learning the nyx expression language and all that stuff too nyx is way older So comparing any of these to to nyx is I think a little bit unfair because that's been developed for so long That and it's also a very different target audience for nyx. Yeah. Yeah Plus, I mean they've done a really good job of I mean nyx os is a thing and then the nyx package manager is a thing So they they've done a good job of just it's just it's an ecosystem, right? Where's kino? It's a whole ecosystem that makes like the arch Linux a u r look tiny. Yeah the The thing about kino white and silver I'm not I don't know about silver because I haven't used it But the I've been using kino white for three months or at least I had been it's gone now. Um, but The feeling behind that is that it could be good But it's definitely a beta And from the people I've talked to who've used silver blue it also has some of the same things Well, it's only it's more stable because they use genom and genom Is so restrictive anyways that it's basically fine to to use the kino. The kd version is just it's so buggy And you can just tell it's it's a beta That's what the biggest difference between kino white and and uh silver blue is the desktop environments Where the pay or the development pace for kde is much more aggressive than gnomes Uh, they're all time pushing new features new configuration options And uh, the the only time that they take time to actually fix on bugs is when they're going Is when they announce that they're going to work on the next lts release for kde Which that is until like uh 5.28 if I remember right is the next lts Yeah, the the biggest problem with the kde stuff is that it expects root access in some places That's it it expects so so for like a for example The biggest feature of kde probably at least for me is the ability to theme it right and install new themes from their marketplace of You know thousands of themes you can't do that a kino white without Uh messing around with a whole bunch of different stuff that you really shouldn't be missing around in an immutable file system Otherwise out of the box. It's just broken You know, you can't do it because it's it's it's expecting Things in certain places that aren't actually there because there's missing directories and stuff So it was just I mean that was just one of the many bugs that I came across now I'm assuming that eventually they'll get that stuff but you can tell that that's beta So that led to my other question this micro west. Does it feel like it's early days or is it like a complete thing? uh, so I've been using the gnome stack on on micro west and uh As a result it's there there are some uh growing pains I would say because If you install just a base gnome image the first thing it does is it pulls in like the dome flat pack image And uh, it comes up with this little powerful winner that says installing firefox And if you don't give the machine internet access that window is not going to go away and you cannot close it But I mean and of course it it defaults to wailin too because gnome that that is very much just a like I don't know like it'd be hard hard pressed to say that's not something that'll get addressed in the next release candidate Well, well, no, but at the same time it's just like it does ship with like flat hub setup and enabled So you can install flat packs from like the largest repository flat packs available So that that's like a thing that it's got going over silver blue And uh, you know, it gives you a it gives you a system that you can actually use Hmm. Okay. All right. Tyler. What did you have for us this week? Mine is uh, a cali linux article But we're not really going to talk about the article like that much because the article made me think about something else um But anyway, cali linux has gotten an update with some new tools um updated kernel all that good stuff, which is good But it also made me think Because I know that a lot of people use cali linux for pin testing But I wanted to go ahead and use my news article For just a quick kind of poll so with everybody On this if you're in live chat, let me know if you use cali linux as your main Like os like that's what you use That's your daily driver and people afterwards leave it in the comment section because I'm interested to see How many people are like? Yes. I daily drive cali linux. I don't think Like I think cali linux is a great operating system But I don't think there's nearly as many people that daily drive it as you might think with how popular it is Um, because pretty much when you say cali linux almost everyone knows what you're talking about like Especially if you're in the it world like you've heard of it before Even if you've never used it.  They might be a hacker Like yeah Actual police, yeah It's just hilarious because you know how many kids were trying to spin off a minecraft server and then their parents thought they were like Trying to hack the nsa or something. What he says that of course I use cali for gaming Okay, so confession time I've never even tried to install cali linux. I could never try And that's because you're not supposed to I never had any interest in I mean I'm not a hacker of any sort um, so But I think it's garuda has a an iso that is made for pentesting as well, right? It's not garuda directly. It's like a black arch is is the one that I'm familiar with Which uh, you know, I think I think garuda has a black arch of additions, but they call it Well, yeah, because I I was pretty sure garuda had one where it's like they're Normal like kind of the flashy desktop that either you love or you hate And then it just had a shitload of pentesting tools thrown on top of it Yeah, oh, yeah, I mean garuda black art tradition. Okay, so it's basically just black art with the theme. Yeah Well, I miss I'm assuming that they do the usual garuda stuff too because they use butterfests and they use the zen kernel No Would they would they use the zen kernel in the pentesting version? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't see why you wouldn't I don't think it would make a difference I imagine it would just use like the standard mainline kernel If anything because it would have an exit on the device that you were going to be testing Like like doing the pentesting on you probably wouldn't wouldn't want that device to have the zen kernel Just because I'm sure there's plenty of exploits that you could get around that are There because of the performance tuning of the kernel which Still let's be honest like the performance gains you're going to get between a zen kernel and a regular kernel are like negligible at best, but Honestly, if you want performance in your kernel, just compile your own Well, and and even then again like when we're talking about raw performance You're not going to get back that much like no not really like look It's a fun thing to do for sure if you like messing around and configuring stuff You should do it But you shouldn't solely do it because you think you're going to get an extra 10 fps in a game like no Yeah Gruda has way too many isos Um, they're getting as bad as arco.  Yeah, but it is a little bit more coherent. Just a little bit. Well, oh, yeah a lot Our arco's website is garbage. It's really bad. Anyways, um Somebody was asked. Oh, I I think I asked a I did a poll on my community page asking how many people have compiled a A kernel before or have are planning to and the vast majority of people never compiled their own kernel Well, no because they never really had to I mean, you don't still you still don't have to Okay Well, there There are definitely use cases where you need to well, you know But they do back in the day Back in my days here where you know, we we use linux back in 2004. It's not there We had to compile, uh, you know wi-fi drivers into our kernel Or you know, we actually had to pull down and compile the nvidia driver into the kernel because dkms didn't exist yet You're talking about the dark ages of we had the dark ages, you know, I was seven years old in 2004 Okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. It was seven years old. Okay. That is true. I was 12 I would I would have been uh 14 so, um You know, you and I are about the same age the difference is that I was doing this on dial up in the middle of nowhere Well, I would have been I I used I think I would have been doing it I use I used windows 98 and dial up in the middle of nowhere. So, um, that's what I was doing Okay, anyways, so my my news item of the week is a little bit more mainstream NVIDIA has published 73,000 lines worth of header files for their ampere GPUs And a lot of this is documentation that people are expecting to help the open source drivers quite a bit Um, me. I'm not so and uh, not not so. I'm not that enthusiastic I'm not as optimistic that this stuff is actually useful. Um, if you oh, no, it's useful I don't know. But I mean first of all I don't know anything about, you know, any of this stuff, but it just And maybe this is my Uh bias against NVIDIA, but it feels like sometimes that they have decided that they're going to try to get some positive PR out of this Stunt and are just putting out stuff that isn't necessarily going to be all that useful that and they're keeping back the Stuff that they obviously make money on so I don't know Like I don't know if that's true this or not. I'm going to go ahead and say you're right just based off of reading the article like Because pretty much anything gtx 900 and newer Won't like won't benefit at all from any of this They're still going to be particularly slower on nuvo because they can't they can't adjust their clock speeds or anything And then if it's older it will benefit massively from this But those aren't the cards that NVIDIA is selling now So like it's a good thing if you own an older card But if you're looking to buy a card you probably still shouldn't pick NVIDIA if you want open source drivers What it feels like they released all the older stuff because it no longer applies And it's going to have no benefit right to the So a lot of the articles that I've read about this in the last week have or the podcast where I've where they talked about it They were everybody's like oh my goodness NVIDIA is like an open source company now and They're being so very generous and open sourcing all this stuff And it more feels like to me that they're Open sourcing the stuff that no longer matters and while yeah, maybe the the nuvo guys will be able to pull something out of this That is a little bit helpful. Okay, matt. Can I stop here here? Because uh, there is one person in this chat that we're having that can really benefit from this Because you know, he's developing a game what they published was actually the 3d instructions for every gpu from the 400 series to current And that's actually a pretty big deal that means that uh, you know Game engines will actually work better because now they actually know how to draw 3d assets Or like they're better prepared to draw 3d assets in a video. You're technically true But also not really like matt's point is very much true Like they are like yes the performance on the older cards Are going to be better, but up to current is not true like that's not true It's only up to 900 series cards So anything that nvidia is selling themselves first party is at least 10 or a thousand series and up so Essentially what matt's saying is 100 true like for older stuff. Yes, this benefits like a big time But it nvidia is only open sourcing the stuff that doesn't affect their their market like selling now So everything that's being released. It's great. It's and and everything But it's not like nvidia is now a like true participant in open source and passionate about open source They're literally only open sourcing the stuff that cannot affect their their business model now I mean either way like either like either no matter what the bottom line is the rhetoric around the This announcement and the announcement we had like a month ago where they were opening sourcing some of the blobs like amd did ages ago the bottom line is that the They're not as altruistic as some of these people in the linux community seem to think right and Okay, let's take my cynic hat off for just a minute and just say, you know what it's better than nothing You know, I mean it's absolutely better than nothing. It's better than where we were before You know Before they did this right and it's good, right? I just and and as I said when we talked about them open sourcing the blobs like just calm down A little bit just pump the brakes and don't automatically jump to nvidia's our friend now. You know, well, no Yeah, well, I mean I think you should kind of had well exactly amd is not your friend Like they're just there to sell you something But at the end of the day, like I think it's really just you should have the same mindset as a random person Doing something good like you know, like when you see a random person doing something good You're like that's awesome But you don't also go immediately that person could be like my best friend Like you don't know anything about that person for all you know He might be a great guy during the day and then at night he becomes a serial killer Like it's the same thing you should have within video like they're doing good things That's awesome and you should Like not just be happy about it, but also openly say it's a good thing But also don't think that they're your best friend They they clearly had like if they were as altruistic as some people are backing them out to be It wouldn't be up to 900 series gpus. It would be every single gpu all of their headers would be released But you know that could hurt their bottom line amd could use that against them Then they there's just too many factors that come into that so they don't mess with it Which and you know like business wise makes sense Like i'm not saying they're doing something for the sake of being bad like it logically business wise it makes sense but also That does make it clear like they're not your best friend They're not doing everything just because they're altruistic and love open source like no Realistically like if they're making hardware, they're probably not your best friend unless their name is pine 64 Because not even a raspberry pi foundation is your friend but uh When when it comes down to like nvidia open sourcing things We have to remember that the that they've been a proprietary project forever And uh, there's a potential for a lot of legal issues if they just release everything open source to even begin with Because you know it's proprietary. Who knows how many of those lines of codes have actually been just straight up copied and pasted from stack exchange Who really knows like they're they could license out Parts or not license out. Well, they could license part parts of their code out to other companies And open sourcing it could change the licensing on that And then also if they're using code from other companies or elsewhere that has a license tied on to it Yeah, you know open source it like and and that's why the lax kernel still uses gpl 2 as as the default license they've talked about moving up to gpl 3 But you have to remember that there's been 20 plus thousand individual commits from different people Post it on there and they all have their own license So they have to ask every single one of those people if that license change is okay Well, a lot of it probably going to be no It's going to get more complicated as they bring rest into the mix there, too Well, of course it is not not even with just rust just no matter what over time It's only going to get more complex because there's just going to be more commits Screw it start over again. That's what we need to do Well start over again. Let's all resettle. Let's all rebass on gnu herd. It's actually a function in kernel now to me I don't I don't think us not like the kernel not problem, but we're A long ways away from that if that even ever happens because a lot of people You know just have You know issues with version 3 for various moral reasons because there's some parts of that are just very Orally version 3 is a bit of a virus So it will and also there's use cases where g gpl 2 is way better than gpl 3 Like not just off you can or can't use one like there's definitely use cases where gpl 2 is just more Appealing gives you more options Um down the line So that said if you're publishing an open source software project, you should probably post post a license anyway It doesn't you the github makes it easy. It's just like you take a box Yeah, I think it it's one of the the get Farms like get lab or get hub, but it was one of the more minor ones They actually force you to do it like you can't yeah, I think it's source That forces you to publish a license like you can't you can't publish anything on there via get without a license at all Yeah, and the main reason for that is because uh under under the us law Anything that you create like say your youtube videos before they even touch youtube They are technically all rights reserved, which basically means that you are the sole person that has all the rights to that thing Technically speaking like again us law. Oh, no, no It's supreme court approved. Yes, but also like there's stipulations that come with it like It depends on Essentially you're correct as long as it's just you Just yeah working on it and you haven't published it.  Yeah, that really yeah that that kind of I mean Creative commons isn't I mean first of all, why are you licensing your your software under creative commons? Anyways, it's not really a software license. It's for content um At least some of the versions anyways, I don't know about all of them But it just it just felt a little weird for me that they're Apparently that's not esf approved for them right anymore or something. It was a little it was a little confusing But um, yeah, that's another area where licenses that have been in the news lately. So um, moving on to the main topic which Shockingly, we've been recording for 46 minutes. So we're right on time adding a third person Tyler did not add to our podcasting time anyways at least so far I'm sorry. No I just expected with a third person We'd add a third of the time onto the policy Should I be chilling here here how gen two is the best distribution even though I don't really use it anymore? Don't worry. We'll give you time at the end to just Oh, okay, I'll just leave the stream on while I go about the rest of my day You can just sit here and proselytize All of your gen two stuff. Um, we see there is one day's letter I currently have a single machine here that has not seen the grace of gen two because you know I've even attempted gen two on the galaxy s21 that did not go work very well you You're you you're weird Hahaha You tried putting let's be honest first like you tried putting gen two on a samsung New phone like it's not an old phone at all Galaxy s21.  I did not get the gpu driver working. In fact, I couldn't even get the network stack working I would be surprised if you got the gpu working at all I didn't get a display, but it was all cpu rendered, which you know, it was absolutely horrible You're you're you're obsessed there josh my friend. All right moving on So our main topic this week is a little bit niche and but I wanted to talk about it anyways I know That a good portion of our audience don't give a crap about tiling window managers Which is unfortunate for you folks because that's what we're going to talk about for the next 20 30 minutes or so We're going to talk about tiling window managers, but specifically I want to talk about dynamic versus manual And this is a thing that I I've thought about a lot because at least in the last week because I did the archcraft video And I've never spent a lot of time in open box like not a big open box guy Like I I know the basics of it like I know how to Create menu items and stuff like that But for the most part, I've just avoided it because I'm not a floating guy, right? And it got me thinking about the other side of the tiling aspect where there are two different types of Tiler's like there's dynamic tires like dwm and xmone add and there's there's manual tires like i3 and psm and I During my course of being a tiling window manager user I've transitioned from being an i3 user where I swore by the manual tiling aspect of it like I Needed that absolute control over where the next window spawn And would not hear anything about how dynamic was better and then I As I progressed in learning how to you know compile my own code and learned a little bit more c and stuff That I installed dwm which is a dynamic tire and at that point Then I was like dynamic tiling window manager is the best and now I'm back on i3 And I've basically made i3 into a dynamic tiling window manager, which is a little weird but um So my question for you guys and you guys can decide who goes first is what do you think? I mean First of all, let's just put this out there like we know that the best answer is use whatever is best for your workflow Don't give me that answer because that would make the podcast really short If you had to choose again, what do you guys think is the best? What what what do you think is the most functional all that kind of stuff dynamic manual tires? Tyler Josh take it away.  That's really it Yeah I I would mostly agree with that like and by mostly agree. I mean I agree with the dynamic Tyler should be the choice My reasoning is just like it's going to take less off you like it's just it's it's a It's a usability aspect that you can find out like whether you want manual control later Like as soon as you figure out how configuring a window manager works Um a tiling window manager Then then you should figure out whether or not like Like whether or not you want manual control or how you want the manual control work like all of that like I think I think For most people dynamic is where you should Definitely start and it's probably going to be the thing that you'll end up using Like for most people manual is great. Like it it is great. Like I it's weird I think if you're not hard-pressed on either or like like you haven't decided that this is the one that you like You'll end up just Ping ponging between them because yeah, they're they're kind of like they they offer different things and based off of what you're doing like Something that like a lot of people don't like to acknowledge About everyone and when it comes to using a computer is people change and so like what you're doing like Now versus six months ago can be completely different and for some use cases manual tylers are great And some use cases dynamic tylers are better Sometimes that that distinctions not there, but there are use cases where there where it is And if you're not already picked one like you're hard-pressed like I love a manual or I love a dynamic You'll just kind of switch back and forth as you play along with things or think that this might be better for this time in the year and I still don't think like For those types of people You should start off on a manual like it when you're if you haven't made up your mind You're completely new stick with a dynamic. That's probably a good start. I'm going to disagree with both of you actually I think I think you're just gonna say if they start with i3 I think that they should start out with i3. Yes, that's true. Um But even even if you aren't going to start out with i3 bspw I'm a big good option for a lot of people because first of all It's written in a language that a lot of people know written. I mean I you can write that config at any Uh anything you want really but it's by default it's written in bash and a lot of people know bash And even if they don't know bash they don't have to know like if statements and case statements and Wow loops and all this stuff. They don't need to know that you can use those in the configuration file if you want to But basically it's just a shell script that uses a program bspc, right? But the point is is that with bspwm you get the best of both worlds by default It looks damn near like a dynamic tiling window manager because it has a layout right and it's a layout that is Used across almost every window manager. It's the spiral thing, right? and The thing is is it has it's my actually a manual tyler because you can use pre-selection. That's the reason why you know, it's a manual but Tyler you're like I never used nobody uses very few people use pre-selection First of all, I mean you really have to you know Have a lot of windows open on a single workspace in order for pre-selection to make a lot of sense Because most people have two and that's side by side That's pretty much all you ever gonna need and that's you want them on top of each other and then you can easily do that um That's the reason why bspwm makes a lot of sense to me as someone's first window manager I three on the other hand. I think is probably the best for brand new beginners not because of the manual or A dynamic argument, but mostly because the configuration file is so easy to pick up and the documentation is so good Um and the community is there too. Yeah, and it's very popular. So you're going to be able to get help when you if you need help the thing is is that when you're trying to back to the manual or A dynamic thing Most of the most popular dynamic Window managers are written are or I should say our source base source configured Window managers the popular ones like you know dwm xmonad those things are configured in the language that they are You know written in feel you see for dwm and you get haskell for xmonad Yeah, and everything else is basically just a downstream fork of dwm Right exactly the the thing is is that when you have to use one of those things you have to learn that language So for example, if you're going to use awesome awesome is a really weird window manager and that it starts out default floating Right. Uh, yeah it has tiling. It also has the Manual mode and has all these layouts and stuff. So that's a really weird one But it's an example of something like if you want to use it you need to know lua Well, you don't need no lua, but you need to know you need to be comfortable with using lua Right if you're going to use xmonad you have to be comfortable with haskell and the only person We know who's comfortable with haskell is dt. Um, I'm just gonna put that out there dt is like them Why haven't why haven't they changed the haskell logo to be like dt's head? He should be actually here's here's more of one that i'm surprised I'm surprised that haskell has not reached out to dt to design some stuff like Between them both like work together to like make some merch do like like a kind of like a Promotional thing like they should totally do it. He should do the thing The xmonad developer at one point was talking about like using a screenshot from one of dt's videos Well, like you know how like some youtubers are so like prolific or whatever That when they cover a product the the company then uses their videos on the website That's definitely going to happen with dt and haskell But the the point is the point is with like xmonad you have to know haskell if you're going to use dwm You have to know, you know some c right With it seems like with manual tylers and this is not the case across the board obviously But you are going to be much more comfortable with whatever language they're in because a lot of them are either user readable Uh similar to like what like harp's loft or i3 uh or bspdm where they're written in a You can basically write in anything but they're configured by default in bash So it feels like the manual tylers have a better Uh more new user friendly configuration scheme Not always but a lot of the times and maybe that's just uh I mean you are right typically manual tylers do have more user friendly configuration files typically But it was a little cheap of you to use bspwm as your example because that is both that is both i3 kind of is both too. Yeah, like they're like Oh, no bspwm is the one like like window manager that you could call out that's perfect for both because like it I mean it is a manual tyler By default, but also an automatic tyler or a dynamic tyler by default like too. It's perfect like I think you're right though Like I mean really in all honesty like if you're if you're interested in checking out like window managers in general and You don't have your own personal opinion on which is the best for you bspwm is great because it's really good Like well that also depends if you're running gnome or not Because with gnome you can there's two different extensions you can solve to make it a window manager All right, let's talk about that for a minute shall we because that is such a okay, so Maybe okay If you've never used a tiling window manager before The gnome extensions are good if you've never used if you've never used one before You'll be happy. That'll be that's a good way. Josh is right That's a good way to get your feet wet in it But if you've used a tiling window manager before or any window manager open box whatever it doesn't matter flux box You can use it doesn't matter which one you've ever used before if you go back to that It's like putting a cat in a kennel. You know, I mean because uh, yes If you're curious about the content we're talking about first of all, let's let's talk about these extensions There's two of them. Uh, the the most famous one is called pop shell It's the one that pop os uses by default where you hit like super wide Suddenly you have a pseudo dynamic tiling window manager. Uh, the other one that I'm talking about is material shell uh, which which is uh It's a bit more like heavy on the customization aspect compared to a pop shell but it but it's a it's a project that's existed for like Uh, almost like 13 years at this point. It's it has a very good foundation. Like there's a lot of people developing it so Or at least using it. There's a lot of people. Yeah, I have no uh that and uh material shell is available in like the gnome extension store Uh, whereas the pop shell is not but uh, you know, if you're using fedora There's a copper repository that has it maintained by carl george, which is a guy that works upstream in fedora So it's almost official support for it.  So let's use it I haven't used the material shell. So I can't really speak to the customization levels but if you most people it seems like use the pop shell, right? And maybe not maybe not most but I mean, that's usually their first You know Exposure to it probably realistically they're using because it's the easiest one to use Okay, because it comes pre-installed, right? Yeah The thing and that's the one that I have my experience with too And you gotta remember is that I was a long time window manager before that and you going into that one Finding out that there are some things that are hard-coded and turned into it in terms of key bindings was just unacceptable to me, right? I am 100% used to being able to use sxhkd to do whatever I want and whatever I damn well, please I can make any Keychord that I feel like I can make the most complicated emacs like keychord if I want to Um, and that's perfect control b control y shift six And even even if you don't use sxhkd every single window manager out there That is an actual window manager allows you to basically whatever you want when it comes to key bindings Maybe they don't have keychords But most of them every time you say keychords, I just think about your hand and it just being like an x-ray I'm just a completely broken like this Saturday They're they're great. I have so many of them I I could not live there To be fair the three of us. I'm the only one that actually uses the emacs on a daily basis I don't I don't even know what to say about that You should definitely you should use vim it would just be a normal person for once josh It's all right. Vim is a good it's good enough, man You need to I use vim too Uh vim is almost or is emacs is on the desktop. This is not an emacs stream. Okay. I'm just okay It could be anyways the the point is is that when you use a window manager, you're used to being able to do all those things You use the pop shell you get in there and it's just it's curtail now. Like I said, it's great if you've never used one before You know and you know You get to the point where you can you know you use it and maybe you get used to the tiling aspect of the things and then You know, it's fine But then maybe you move on my biggest problem with those things is that it gives the impression of that's what a window manager is Like I've seen some people in the chat saying my window manager is pop o s like no That's not a that's not a window manager. That's that's fancy tiling Like that's that's your window man. Well, yeah, I mean your window manager is mutter, but this kind of again, you know Like at the end of the day, it's gonna right but You're right. You're right. I and and to To expand off of that. I think what it is is You get the Like you get the look of what a tyler is like you get to see like visually what a tyler is with them But you don't understand anything about a tiling window manager and you're also not Really using a tiling window manager like you would use any other tyler like there's there's hardly anything configurable about it Like pretty much all you get from a like from one of those shells is or the Tyler extensions is it it just the appearance of what does tiling look like? That's what you get. Yeah, you don't you don't get anything else And I think it's a good introduction if you've never seen a tyler before But it's not a good introduction to using a tyler because The exception to this entire conversation is bismuth on key to e So if you're going to if if you're going to do this kind of thing where you want to use a desktop Environment and then turn it into a tiling window manager, bismuth is actually a good eye option It's still not the same But at least with the 10 billion You know options for customization that katie offers you can turn that into a very close replication Of what you'd get with a tyler manager It's still very gooey based like all of your configuration stuff is going to be happening in in the settings panel Right and you want to do all the key bindings from the settings panel Okay, but you can at least control everything that she would normally be able to control and the window manager There's two problems with that obviously first of all you're getting very attached to the gooey again because most window managers in fact probably all of them have The vast majority of the configuration done in a terminal in a config file, right? The other thing is is in traditional katie fashion It's buggy is all shit Yeah, I was just waiting for that to come up in the conversation I said I said if you want to try like A linux distribution that uses like a full gnome stack with a with a proper window manager It's like the only realistic option is in fact regolith or you know, you could like Find figure out how to download arco linux and use one of those things Yeah, so my biggest problem with regolith and it's great. I think it's fantastic You are actually using i3 and everything that you want to do My biggest problem with them is they've changed so much in terms of where things are at So all of the configuration files are in different places So if you start off with regolith and you just like yeah, I'm using i3. This is fantastic. It's very good But then you'd say you move to arch And you install i3 and then you go to look for the configuration file And it's not in the same place as regolith stored there's and you're going to be able to do that And regolith hard forks i3 to the point where like they don't even respect to use their home configuration Yes, but yeah, it will default to the system configuration every time that is that is very true However, I will say I I don't think for most people it's going to be that big of a deal I think it'll be like I think for most people if you switch away and you find out that the configuration file is not in the same place Um, you'll probably be able to get a browser open or go on your phone and do a search and find that like okay arches i3 configuration file is in this spot.  And I think that that is always a good thing and I know I just spent like 10 minutes poo pooing the pop o s the pop shell Uh, if you're using that and you enjoy it, that's great. And I'm not going to say that's a bad thing I would just highly caution you that if you then move on to using something like dspwm or You know dwm or i3 or whatever don't expect the experience to be the same just because You used a tiling window manager and pop o s, you know, I mean because they're not they're not the same I mean, it's not a true tiling window manager, but if you see like a workflow benefit out of it Go ahead and use it. Yeah, if you if you like it, I mean you're it's Software you can use it for whatever you want. Yeah, well, I mean if you're using pop There's no reason not to have it like it especially if you like it like it's already there like in the background I don't understand the workflow behind gnom and haven't for a long time. Okay. I've Bitched and complained about gnom for years I still don't care if you use it though. If you like, I know a lot I know a ton of people who love the workflow of gnom like they just look they will not Look at anything else and that is perfectly fine. Like seriously If it works for you, that's fantastic.  I don't know But if it works for you, that's great. I know people who will only ever use kde despite the many problems that kde has I know people I I know dt. He'll only use xmon. I mean, that's not true He uses other things but he swears by xmon and he loves caskel, right? You know, there are people who just get so attached to the things that like for me right now I cannot foresee myself ever switching away from i3 again I love i3 so much and i've spent so much time Customizing it to literally be Perfection get out of my chat room.   This has to end now like I don't i'm pretty sure people watching this can all see but all of our faces immediately went to chat Like this is going to get new. All right. Let's talk for about five minutes about youtube. Shall we because I want to talk. I want to brand about this like they think Google is the most powerful company in the world Or at least one of them. Okay, you can argue they're the most powerful tech company in the world Of all of the ones i'm like apple has the most money But when it comes to influence on the internet google is the thing right everyone It's they they're they're like Kleenex when you grab a tissue You don't say you're grabbing a facial tissue you grab grab a Kleenex even if they you know When you google when you search something on the internet you google it's become the verb, right? They're so powerful and so almighty when it comes to all of their technologies and stuff like that They can't handle fucking bots in the comment section like well, you see there's a very realistic easy solution to this Just okay, just allow unicode fonts Fan emojis and that immediately shuts out a lot of the bots spam because they already have a very strong text filter Yes, well, but see there's What blows me away about it not being found is that Like okay, yes, they're using unicode characters, but you can also detect what unicode characters There are well, yeah So if you if you if you've already have the text like the text filter set up and working properly You take the unicode characters filter them into text and then compare it using your normal text filter And so the links that get thrown up because most of these sex bots and everything like that like they have Like they yeah, they have emojis in them, but there are regular people that have emojis in their name All of the unicode characters if you have a link in your name Get rid of it You guys are you guys are thinking about this even too too much because yes Those things are problems and they definitely need to work on those and the vast majority of them would get caught by the things you're talking about but There's something even simpler that they could do if the username says best adult dating site ban that person, okay No, that's what i'm saying like because how they're getting away Well, you see there was a very real solution to this and everybody didn't like it because Privacy you were guys remember when google was really pushing like the real id thing Yeah, you know I mean, I understand why that that's a bad idea And I don't think that that's the way to go because a lot of people first of all don't have ideas IDs and another thing that By forcing people to have their own identity true identity online It you know has the whole connotation of people are in party in countries where there's like actual dictators and shit Well, it's even worse than that like it's very basic at that point google is inseparable from the government Because if you essentially have to take a government id and give it to google Then not only does the government have a list of civilians like everywhere google has a list of civilians not just in one country But in a majority like it's the solution for this is first of all Make it impossible to chat on anything for the first 15 or 20 minutes of the After that consecrated, okay, so that's going to stop some of it.  It's got a swear word something like that Block it out. Let make me manually show it. There is Like there's no excuse for how complicated this could be that makes sense Like we're talking about an analytics company that specializes in database management. Oh, that's really that's really the point I'm no matter what solution they come up with the fact that We are 20 years into youtube at this point And they're still having this freaking problem And you know, I you guys probably remember the days where it seemed like youtube changed their interface like every single day Like there was there was a point There was a period like four or five years where they changed things like Constantly like they move do you remember back in the day when you could like set up your own custom backgrounds And stuff like that like I remember like uploading css templates into youtube That show was awesome. It was awesome, and I wish they brought it back, but they're never going to But also the site would look so much worse like because I remember some people's channels were so bad looking Yeah, like so some of them have like the animated gifts of the background with like the transparent window It was like geo cities. Okay, let's just be honest. It was geo cities. Okay um But the the point I was trying to make was that they've There was that period of time where they were changing things constantly It feels like since they've abandoned that where they're changing things constantly where they've made Zero progress in like the last five years in anything like the the the site looks the same The moderation tools are basically the same as they were five years ago Arguably worse.  I love tiktok by the way And see that's the problem most people do why tiktok is designed to be as addictive if not more Than gambling because in gambling like the whole reason that you're sitting there is a massive emotional like dopamine payoff Like you're going to get all this money. Like it feels good when you get that Um tiktok is designed to give you a dopamine hit every like five seconds Like it the shorts like the reason tiktoks are super short Is because you're constantly scrolling in every new piece of content. You get a small hit of dopamine until you stay using it It's the same idea with youtube like it's Like look, I understand the reasoning behind why you would design something like this when your business model is built off of people staying on the platform I get it, but it is extremely unhealthy. Like it's That's what I only use in the bathroom. It's okay. I'm fine. I understand and I know a lot I know a lot of kids like like adults that have like I have one of my best friends He's just now stopped his son like he doesn't let his son like use tiktok at home anymore Because like dude, it is tear like when I see kids that are using tiktok If you're below 20 years old, you shouldn't be able to use it.  Yeah All right, ignore that.  So it's like they should just ban the service entirely Those people can go to jail. It's a thing. Well, yeah, all right That was a rabbit hole. I don't want to get into that. Okay, so let's just let's stop that. Let's talk about window managers Let's let's just paw. Let's just um It's it's nuts Take a minute the whole internet coffee. It's absolutely insane and you probably shouldn't use it I think that that's that's the bottom line.  Let's talk about nerdy linux stuff. Okay. Let's talk about nerdy linux stuff. Okay. Um, anyways So do we have anything else to say about the the the window manager thing either you guys anything else? So for those that are curious, uh, the workflow of a manual window manager It changes depending on the window manager. It really does There are some like i3 where it's just like you have a predefined layout There's another there's there's other window managers that won't let you open up a window until you tell Where it's going to open the window at This is like I believe this is the default behavior of uh urbs left wm Now which is probably one of the more I think it's actually been growing as like a community project like it's It's actually seeing more and more use these if you have a widescreen monitor Uh, like an ultra wide wide screen like an ultra wide screen monitor herp slope is probably the best window manager Uh Maybe sway is also there because they both did the same thing. They have this amazing Configuration file where you can basically tell The window manager to treat your once widescreen monitor as three separate monitors You just tell it the position of the pixels, right? And that's amazing if you have a widescreen monitor And we like sway does the exact same thing. That's how it because it doesn't use x It doesn't use x-ray at all. So you have to tell The compositor where everything is and you can obviously if you just have one you can tell them You know, I have this resolution. Believe it or not Urbs left wm actually does use x-ray under well. No, no, no I didn't say herp's left didn't use x-ray under. I said sway doesn't use x-ray under because it's not Yeah, it's wayland. Um, yeah, because you know, uh sway is the one doing that job now Well, yeah Of course, right, but the the the point is is that both of those window managers despite using different display you know display servers in the back end is that they have this Virtual monitor aspect and it's one of the most amazing things I don't use it because I have I have 27 minutes monitors I don't need to split them up any more than they already are But if you have a widescreen, that's just amazing. The other thing about herp's left Is that it is probably the most configurable window manager you'll ever see like seriously If you go through there, I did this on stream one night where I just read out their uh, the man page It's like, I don't know 50 000 lines long and it has so many different It's like it's nuts. It's like uh, what dwm claims to be except that it actually tells you how to do it Well, then well, I mean it's not even like dwm is so minimal has you have to put so many of her patches and stuff in it Herp's left has all the patches basically like it'd be like having dwm with all the patches It's all the features and stuff there but with documentation like actual documentation, right? Yeah, um, so just before we move on to the the thingies of the week Let's take it just a small minute to talk about our favorite win images just real quick So mine's i3 obviously tyler you switched around quite a bit. So what is the one that you're interested in right now? um I don't I don't know. I'm honestly torn between um dwm which is like kind of like my Like roll back like yeah, like just if i'm having problems just mess around with dwm like it'll be fine um, but really in all honesty like i've taken a big liking to open box here recently um, just just because like i've tried testing out like linux mint and playing games on it in different um in different window managers and saying like if any window managers had issues that like I've So far I've tried bspwm dwm and open box and when I tried out open box I actually I forgot how much I liked open box like it is really nice the customizability of that menu system is really nice Like if you if you are someone who is interested in using a menu at all Open box has the best one And also like it it was a big like kind of nostalgia factor for me because I used to use crunch bang Yeah, yeah as long as you like editing x or xml files is what I should say Like there's tools where you can just automatically generate the open box menu too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's cheating So yeah, yeah, it's more fun to do the xml yourself. Oh, yeah I mean that's the proper way to do it because you know open box has these things called dynamic menus Where it's just like you can get open box to like show your current playing song And you can have like a scrolling effect tune and everything too. It's actually really cool All right, josh, what about you? What is your favorite one right now? Uh, my favorite window manager Has it is the same window manager. I've been using for over six years now dwm Damn it. What the frack man. I was a hundred percent ready to hear emacs wm or like whatever Okay, so I I do use the emacs on a daily basis It is my tax editor of choice for like what I do because but most of my work in emacs is really just in org mode buffers Sometimes I don't even really use splits that often. Sometimes I'll use a split. Sometimes I won't Uh, and uh, you know at one point I did have like a deed I did set up like my laptop to be to be like a dedicated emacs machine We're just like I was using the exwm and all that stuff and just like it worked But realistically the the biggest drawback to like exwm is that emacs is single threaded That includes all the plugins for emacs is on that one thread So if emacs crashes your whole x server crashes. How is that not been fixed? They are working on fixing it. It's just that it's been single threaded for over 40 years now I genuinely thought that she were gonna say the reason that you know, like it it's not working for you Or it's not what you would choose.   And then it's just like at that point you just signed up for it. There is no accident there but uh, realistic realistically like, uh, I am going through a journey where it's just like by But at some point like I set like an arbitrary date to like the end of this year But you see how quickly I come out with content where it's just like almost never But I am going to be going through every single window manager I can possibly find I call it the window manager project. Uh, it's not a weekly video series or anything It's just like whenever I find a window manager and she's like, hey, I just feel like making a video about this But uh, the big thing for me is that the the main reason why I actually don't mind sway or i3. I can make them work for me But at the same time I use a triple monitor system And uh, you know, it's great that like I can send the window to specific workspace on a on a specific screen That kind of falls apart when you introduce a third plus monitor. It really it really does I know you've said this to me before But I would guess that you're just not doing it, right Uh, so here's the thing is just like it is possible to uh, Bind like the right all key to be specific to like the right monitor And then the left all key to be the specific specifically the left monitor when the super is just like the middle monitor But the big thing is uh, that then at that point you have to dig through obscure x input Uh documentation that does not work with sway. So i3 allows you to set Monitor variables. So you would set Yeah display one display two display three in three does i3 does But the problem is how x works Okay, I don't know what your problem with x is it's everyone uses it. You should just give it a try It's been around for a long time. It's very stable I don't know you kids in these this wailing nonsense. Just x x x was good enough for our forefathers. You should be good enough for you Honestly, unless you use x unless you're using open bsd Uh, wayland wayland is your inevitable future because uh, nobody's really maintaining x outside of one guy who tells you not to use it Nothing has been Nothing more sad has ever been said than what you just did I'm just gonna put that out there because right now wayland is not ready. But anyways, well, no wayland is not ready Wayland won't be ready until like they fix several of the glaring issues that a lot of people have with like, you know global key lines But there is a work upstream it in the in the gtk portal that will get that will get implemented into the wayland protocol itself You just broke my heart when you said gtk portal. I mean Well, yeah, I probably did the gtk portal. That said that said the wlr roots Portal is so much better than gtk portal It's actually kind of kind of not funny because you know, uh, when like you're doing a screen capture in like, uh, ob s studio the uh The gtk portal as you just select from like a drop-down menu Whereas if you're using something like sway, you just move your mouse to the monitor and click it All right, we got we got to move on. We got to get done with this So all right, so moving on to the last section of the show We call this thing very creatively thingies of the week now We could have called this anything apps the week picks the week Whatever but those would have been Copyrighted elsewhere. So we called them thingies of the week and this week We have thingies of the week tyler You go first. What is your thingie of the week?  Okay buy it. You're welcome. You're welcome.  Yeah, no, no, I'm no I'm dead serious the steam deck is my thing of thingy thingy of the week All right, but I'm putting a cap on it. You can't use it next week. You have to come up. Okay fine If there are more things in the world than just to stream the steam deck, okay Um, first of all, they need because how many times have we called that damn thing as the stream deck? I know like god I honestly think that they use the word deck just so we can make a Use deck and like the the product name just so that we could have that discussion I am so surprised that Elgato hasn't sued them. I mean, I'm just astonished that there hasn't been a lot A fact that there was a boardroom meeting where they brought it up to lawyers They're like, do you think you think we should pursue this? Like there was definitely a conversation at least about it. It's so close, right? It's it's astonishing. Anyways, anyways, my thing is so I've been working on for like two weeks now a sink thing video and it's one of those videos. It's just fighting me 100% of the way Trying to get to go and be coherent It's been a pain But one of the things I've actually discovered is a new tool. It's not a new tool. It's been around for a while but it's called sink thing gtk and Normally, I'm the guy who says, hey Do everything in the terminal. This was the way god intended it With sink thing You can do everything in the terminal and it works just fine and you use the web portal or whatever and it works It works really well but if you want a native gooey for sink thing that is like an actual application Sink thing gtk is a fantastic tool. It allows you to do everything the web portal allows you to do in a gtk Form factor like an actual native client and it's really nice. It's available as a flat pack So you can get it pretty much anywhere It is the flat pack ships with sink thing inside inside the flat pack container too So as long as that's running you're running sink thing Yep The thing about it is that it just it works fantastically and if you were going to use sink thing Just download sink thing gtk hit start demon and set it up. It'll work automatically for you I've only the only issue I've come across with in a couple of different my computers is that the web portal just won't load um Because you can still get to the web portal of sink thing if you are Using the gtk version Because it just installs sink thing, right? Um, for whatever reason the ports on a couple of mine are Wonky I have something to do with ufw. I'm not quite sure yet. I'm still troubleshooting that. Um, but anyways, um ufw allows sink thing. Well, I do that, but it doesn't work on fedora Um, because it says the same thing not found Oh, because fedora is using firewall command at the same time. So you're actually running two different firewalls Um, well, I'm not because I didn't install the other one. So No, the other one comes preconfigured out of the box. I'm gonna On on all versions of fedora I it's server included not on my system. I searched for it, man. Um Anyways, it doesn't matter The point is is that that's the only problem. I've had a sink thing gtk gtk is actually really good So yours, uh, your pick of the week your thingy thingy of the week is uh, my thing is you banned like your band, uh, Right, it will get me banned. However, however, it is in a direct response to a comment that matt made last week Where he said that if you're using if you have a macafe subscription, you should be banned That said Guess who has a macafe subscription that I have at one point paid for Matt, this is this is this is when you put like you click the button And he just disappears. But anyways guys, uh macafe is available for linux Just to let you know it it it starts it runs It is command line only it is not a gooey tool unless you just Thank god It is more cancerous on linux than it is on windows How's that even possible good? I was I was sitting over here and I was just wondering how I was like Can macafe run on linux? because I gotta be honest. I need it like this linux. It's just super unsecure like i'm constantly getting viruses blue screens Email at the linuxcast.org I want to know everyone who uses macafe on linux Email me at that email address. I want to know do you use macafe? I'm like, you don't have to josh We already know about you your band You're never getting to be seen on this podcast again.  Well to be to be fair. I had to I had to enable an anti virus and claim av was not Was not an option. It had to be a paid subscription Like legally had to be a paid subscription and the choice was macafe or norton Well, hey, oh, yeah, because you can't you you can't use microsoft defender then because it's free Well, no because it's a red hat server. So I can't install microsoft defender You so not only only two not only am I using an anti virus? I also have to have se linux enable which defeats the purpose of an anti virus Um, okay. Yeah Perfect.  Just let you know Um, that's Matt's going to give you all a dollar for everybody that sends me an email That's not that's not true. They can pay for their subscriptions. No, no, no If you're using macafe you have to give me a dollar, okay Wait, hold on. We do have to go ahead and specify this if you are Actually using macafe on linux and you email you have to send proof like you have to send proof It has to be longer than 30 days of use you you cannot well. No, I will go ahead and say So you're just saying that right now somebody can just go sign up for macafe's subscription install it and then send As long as it's a paid for license, you know, they do offer they do offer a free trial that shows that it is a paid subscription I don't Okay, well, no, like your proof your proof for buying it has to be a purchase receipt I want someone to email me who has compiled Gentoo from scratch and then compiled macafe and put it on it's not available It won't even stall itself I figure it only works on red hat open susan and ubuntu and it's a straight up binary, isn't it?  Oh my god another body god damn bots are back But as long as you have the receipt and everything for it then take it screenshot it and send it to us and Matt I I need you to be honest about how many real ones you get I want to I will be honest with you and we'll like I said we're I want to know reasons I don't want to just see that you've done it. I want to know reasons why Not just because I installed it because you guys said something I want to know why you use it because maybe well maybe there's a lot Hold on you have to include the people that buy it just just for that if you're honest and you say To me it was it was worth it to troll if you're willing to spend like 60 to 120 dollars on a macafe yearly subscription Just to make a spirit to make a point Like that's fine. That's fine, but you have to be honest. Tell us your reason for buying I want to know like seriously talk about the real ones who are at chassador We want to know we like we will read your email out online on the podcast live next week And be prepared because I will make fun of you but As long as you have an actual like Josh you have a legitimate reason like you did that for somebody that needed that I did it for a bank you didn't If there if that's the reason why I'm sorry for you, but that's okay if you're putting this on your Personal machine. I need to know why Like I like you have to have an actual reason like why like why do you why did you do that? Anyway, sorry You know, uh, I can I can ssh interior peter and install it right now if you want me to know That's amazing. Why would he wants you to know That said if you do install it on your system Just remember you cannot remove it using your package manager and you cannot remove it with rf You actually have to format the hard drive What No, no, no, no guys guys this discussion is over. I'm done. This is seriously that that was the end of it Anyways If you want to get contact with us the linuxcast.org slash contact all the information stuff like that josh's link in the video description I'm sure he'll be a frequent guest in the future because we had a fair a fantastic job A fantastic job a fantastic time with you here josh. So josh. Thank you for joining us If you want to get if you want to support the podcast you can do so at patreon.com slash linuxcast Just like all these fine people. Thanks everybody who supports me on patreon and youtube I truly do appreciate every every single one of you guys without the pot without you the Channel just would not be anywhere near where it is right now Also, there's a gigantic space there between the directors and the executive producers. I just noticed that I'm going to fix that later on Jesus add is a serious Problems my friend. I'm going to go get I'm going to go take care of that and we'll see you next week