Hey, everyone. Welcome to GoDaddy's Make No Apologies Roundtable Discussion for Women's History Month. My name is Crystal Borsma, and I'm on the brand team here at GoDaddy and part of the group who brought the Make No Apologies campaign to life. We have some amazing women here today to help tackle this topic of women over apologizing and what does it do to our credibility and our confidence? Particularly in business. So I'm going to let each woman go around and tell us a little bit about themselves. Maybe if they're guilty of this and also if this campaign resonated with them and why. Just to clarify a little insight behind the campaign. So there's sort of those like small sorry's that women tend to say throughout the day. And then there's also kind of more deeper, liberate meaningful apologies. So this is really about those small sorry's and how they can undermine us whether again in business and how when we're trying to achieve our dreams kind of that. Especially think about emails and conference calls and meetings when you're sorry to interrupt, sorry to bother you. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And those do compound over time. And so we're going to have a little chat about what does that mean? Why do we do that? And what are sort of the repercussions of it? So let's start with Elohim if you want to introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about you. Hi, my name is Elohim. I am a singer, producer, one woman show musician.  And it's interesting the thought behind the whole sorry thing is like I feel like I had to apologize so many times for you know having a panic attack or having really bad anxiety or not being able to do something because of my anxiety and and I try to it's this kind of sparked inspiration of me to remind you know the people who I talk to all the time like you don't need to apologize for not being okay or for needing a day to just be with yourself and be at home and take care of yourself like you don't need to apologize for that. So this actually really inspired me as well and you know, I feel like from a young age I've been apologizing and maybe it's like being a little sister to a big brother and like always like oh sorry, sorry, sorry. And so I I love this. This inspired me and now it's something that I'm working on. Awesome. How about you Marcella? You're next on the screen for me. Hello everyone. My name is Marcella. I am a fashion designer. I love creating custom clothing for women. You guys inspire me a lot. So I also have kids. I have three teenagers well an adult and two teenagers and that's about it for now. Okay, how about you Esther? Hi everyone. My name is Esther Choi. I'm a chef and uh entrepreneur. I have uh four restaurants in New York and just working on la expansion now and um this campaign means a lot to me because a lot of my management is all females and a lot of what I do is about kind of leading this kind of movement in hospitality for women to you know become leaders and I think that um not only me but a lot of women struggle with confidence in general and especially in management positions or as you know a leader or figure it's always something that I struggle with my entire career and I see women struggle with every day and I think that has a lot to do with um, I mean it ties with apologizing all the time and um, I I always live in this like guilt bubble. I'm always I feel really bad all the time and I I don't know why and I think that has a lot to do with confidence and um just talking about it and even you know trying to fix those like little tiny apologies or feeling guilty about you know even taking And a day off or an hour for myself or even when I'm starting an email and it always starts with like Oh, hey, I'm so sorry, but and it seems casual, but it's it's actually just a part of um this whole like confidence building thing so I love this campaign and I hope to You know learn and be inspired by you all Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, it will get into that. It seems casual, but is it really so Lynn, how about you you're next on my screen? Sure. I'm Lynn Slater. I'm also known as the accidental icon um For most of my career. I was a social worker and professor of social welfare And at the age of 61 I started a fashion blog and it somehow Which I still have yet to figure out, but it became Rather large and so I transitioned from becoming a professor to an entrepreneur and so um one of One thing I want to share with all of you is that one of The things that you can look forward to About being older is at some point you just stop caring what anyone thinks about what you say or do And so it's a very liberating um time of life But when I was younger There were so many mixed messages about Women being assertive about women being smart Um that relate to this I'm sorry um theme of the campaign for example, you know Be really smart, but don't be a know-it-all And so there was always a flip side to the be confident But don't make other people feel bad while you're doing it So I think it took me a long time And I can talk more about that later um to get to the point where I I don't apologize for anything that um I have no control over Yeah, I look forward to hearing more about that for sure and counting down the days to when I get there Um, Maya, why don't you tell everyone a little bit about yourself? My name is Maya Penn. I'm a 21 year old environmental activist I'm the founder and CEO of Maya's ideas, which is a sustainable fashion company that I started in 2008 when I was just eight years old I'm also a sustainability consultant. I've worked with small businesses and startups working 500 companies and everything between and I'm also a Simon and Schuster author and an animator and filmmaker as well I really love this topic because you know, I'm somebody who grew up with you know mom who's very intentional about instilling that kind of unapologetic spirit in me And you know, I I think that despite that, you know, I've still kind of you know, felt in many points in my life Afraid to take up space and so, you know, I'm like, it's really interesting to see how you know, like Through the the generation like my mom has tried to you know instill in me You know to be confident to you know, you don't have to apologize for every little thing like what we're talking about Um, and I've really appreciated her being that support But at the same time, you know, when you get in certain situations, I think that women we often feel like You know, we are just taking up too much space or too much room in a conversation or You know, even when we're not and so we have to make ourselves small again You know just so we don't offend anybody or you know, we don't stand out too much And so, you know, this is something that it's it's really interesting to analyze. Is this like something that's just part of A personality or is this something deeper? Is it because of you know sexism and misogyny? You know and among you know other types of layers as well And so it's something that I've always been really passionate about and I've really really you know through the years kind of stepped into Not kind of uh really owning like taking up that space and really owning You know, I think really owning Kind of an unapologetic spirit in everything that I do Because it's something I've always practiced But it took me a while to really step into it and get used to it and feel like this is me like I can just as Maya This is how I am and want to show up, you know with other people So, yeah, I'm really appreciate this conversation Awesome. Thank you So I just I have a lot of different questions that we can dig into I'm happy to kind of pick people or you feel really strongly that there's something You want to share feel free to kind of chime in I think the first thing I kind of want to dig into is I've heard already this idea Of confidence or lack of confidence when it comes to these apologies Is that is that what we think is that play here? Is that and then also Lynn you kind of touched on this, you know Middle ground so so to speak of like be good, but not too good be this but not too, you know too far So I'm curious and why why do you think we say these little apologies? What's really at play here? Is it a confidence thing? Is it a fear of taking up too much space and Do you are there any men in your life that apologize a lot like this and You know, is it different for them?  So. Oh, sorry I I just did that and I really love what Lynn said about not apologizing Apologizing for something that you're not in control of I love that that really resonated with me and I really truly do think it is a confidence thing and just kind of like Taking that step back and saying I'm I'm sorry. I I guess I messed up, you know, so so I definitely think it's a confidence Issue like our women punished for being too confident. Whereas maybe men aren't um Definitely, I mean that's that's a whole whole Huge conversation and being in music You know, I didn't I didn't really understand the conversation until I really started going out doing shows and playing festivals and And you know, really listening to radio and counting Okay, how many women are they playing on like these alternative stations? And I remember this one day I we had a long drive and it was two hours and I counted one female in two hours on like a very popular alternative station And I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. I'm right here like play my music. You can have it for free I don't care, you know um But yeah, there is there is like there is this weird thing where it's Attractive, you know when a guy is kind of cocky But then if a girl it shows confidence at times it, you know, it is a really beautiful thing when you're confident but you know, of course people change the narrative and you know, maybe I've heard so many people say that female artists Or mean are Divas and it's like I'm sure that they're Not doing anything different than the men in these positions. It's just taken differently also Women have such a brighter light on them because it's like you need to look perfect Your body needs to be perfect whereas men they could show up with just like looking raggedy. It's like, oh, that's sexy, you know So so no wonder women are like, well, I need my lighting perfect I need this perfect, you know, and that's not that's not being high maintenance. That's just kind of the way things are so And I I think that that's okay, and you shouldn't have to apologize for you know being comfortable too Right. There's so many. Yeah to your point. There's so many standards that we have to hit at once That's why we apologize all the time because there's this like running checklist In our head. My eyes saw you nodding and clapping. Do you have something to add? Yeah, no, I completely agree with everything elmine just said I think that too You know what she just spoke to is how we hold women to certain standards that we just don't hold Men to like society does and because of that, you know, women just get less chances women get less you know space to You know to ask a question or be awkward or you know, or you know, take a extra step And if it doesn't really work if you know, it's a mistake then, you know, like There's more judgment put put on women So I think that the constant apologizing is like, you know, I think a lot of women are in fear That they you know will be punished not only for being confident, but just making normal human missteps or mistakes that literally everybody does that most men can get away with and you know, it's You know sometimes even being You know, you know men have opportunity to just kind of show up and just completely be their authentic cells without any sort of judgment and then women a lot of times do not get that same opportunity and you know also too I really think that On top of all of that You kind of have this perception of what you know, elmine just spoke to You know women are kind of taught to be nice and not to be confident, you know, just be nice be pleasant you make sure you are liked and Like the ultimate fear for a lot of women in society is to be disliked because that can you know cost you in many ways in in jobs and Relationships and not dislike for being a bad person or doing anything wrong But just you know being honest or being confident or speaking your mind You know can get you punished unfairly in many Social and professional situations So I think that because you know and this starts so young like you teach girls to just be kind and be nice and be sweet And then like that's the the ultimate goal is to just be liked by everybody and it's like you know in this kind of Very the society is built on misogyny It's going to be very difficult to advocate for yourself while also being liked as a woman So I think that there's there's a lot of layers to that But that's another reason why you know when you tend to apologize and minimize because You know and it hurts them in the long term You know because not being able to advocate for yourself is Makes a lot of situations very difficult to get through whether it be personally or professionally Yeah, yeah. No as you're talking. I was thinking how much of this do we do to one another?  You know, yeah Men necessarily at all. I think we you know, we certainly Um set a standard that we in our lives and people mirror that or maybe we're more Outright with it. But as you were talking, that's what I was thinking about Marcella. You were not in your head That I want to share Is that It's not about Being unapologetic in general because I understand that men one Because when I was expressing this unapologetic side to one of my friends, which is a male He said that's awesome. I should start doing that and then for a moment. I thought Yeah, but the point is that you guys have been taking advantage for a long time So it's about our time to be unapologetic not for you to exercise this it's for So, uh, that's why I was nodding because it's it's about us as women to empower each other and to Stand up and say men you hire time you had and I'm a mom of all men So and I have all brothers. So, you know, it's something that it's like I know this is for universal but for now, that's not the point So, yeah That's awesome. Esther, I'd be curious because you're in the restaurant industry surrounded by men What are your thoughts on this? I do think that people tend to Apologize a lot when they're self-conscious about Either themselves or their idea or even if you're like late a little bit You're you know, you're you're feeling vulnerable and you're feeling like a little self-conscious like oh, I'm so sorry I'm so sorry and that can somehow like covers it up but I feel like that it has a lot to do with just you know being confident in general and um, when you're constantly feeling self-conscious, then you're constantly Apologizing and saying these small sorry's and then it's it's kind of it throws back to like, oh, you're not being confident in yourself and that's why You are apologizing, right? So it's this whole circle and I just feel that um confidence in Women is always lacking. Like why are we feeling self-conscious all the time and um, that's the same in My industry where you know, obviously there are a lot of men that lead kitchens, but um with with my management team What I always like to preach is Hey feel Confident like I know that you're surrounded by men here But it's okay because you're a badass like you know how to do this Probably better than any of these guys here But why can't you just like say it or assert yourself and it's literally about just even Saying what's on your mind which women tend to lack at times. So um that for me that it's always about like coaching and even Sometimes I feel very self-conscious to say something or um, I want to you know, say something to my male counterparts That might be you know offensive or to them or just you know getting my point across But at a certain point you just have to do it and just be like what you know what I'm putting it out there At least I said what's on my mind and I'm very transparent and then we can move forward And you know I I just feel like that confidence building and you know It's sometimes a skill like you have to just consciously always think about it Like I can do this. I can do this. I can do this the amount of times I say that to myself is It's extreme like from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed I'm like constantly Exercising that in my mind so that I can feel and stay confident all the time and not apologize And I'm still guilty of that like the last email I wrote. I realized the first sentence. I was like, hey, I'm so sorry Why I'm really trying to exercise that like one other exercise that I keep Trying to do is like also being able to say no Uh, I think that's really difficult too and as a woman. It's like, um Why do I have to say yes all the time to like everything and now I'm just like going crazy because I can't even get it done So, um, that's another thing that I'm really trying to implement into, um You know my management group and training them like how to say no How to stop up apologizing things like this. I think it all has, um A lot of similarities. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I've read a thing that said no is a complete sentence So much it is it is Okay, land. I'm coming to you because I'm so Interested to hear some advice or some when does this go away? Does it go away? How does it go away? What can we do? Well, I I can tell you that We're systematically trained Throughout our lives to be this way And there are certain, um Things about the way we're educated and about professional education that actually reinforces those things and When I learned to be assertive and direct and clear Was when I was teaching in our school of law and working with lawyers And in my profession as a social worker, you know, you have to tell somebody five good things about themselves before you can make a critique Everything it's about strengths and With the law in the way that the law school runs It's just very direct Like they challenge everything you say And if you have personal feelings about it, they're shocked because this is just how people communicate You know, you say what you mean And you don't have to give people a lot of compliments before you um Say something that is a critique especially about making something better and sadly Speaking to a point you made earlier most of the time When I've been called out in my life about being direct about Not apologizing has been by other women Who I think I make anxious because I'm not following the rule And so I think that We have to really support each other in this And it's a habit you were trained into it and the good news about habits Is that if you really want to break it We have so much knowledge about how you develop a new habit or how you break a habit And so you can do it If you really want to And the other thing I want to say is I think I think we have to make a distinction between this kind of obsessive apologizing and when we are Apologizing because we have a deep sense of empathy for someone else And that we have an understanding that maybe our behavior affected them in some way And so I don't want to lose that part of me, right And in fact rather than telling men to step aside, I would rather say to them You know, you should really be more like us And think more about how your behavior impacts other people because I'll put on my professor cap for a moment. The research does show That women have a lower threshold Of tolerating behaviors that you should apologize for than men do So there's a lot of things that we think oh, you know, I accidentally bumped into you. I'm sorry A man that's like not even on his radar as something Even remotely to apologize for so That would be my message to them Maybe you could learn some things Right through watching our behavior In how we are caring and thoughtful of other people I want to I want to add with what Lynn just said because I totally agree with her in the sense that We as women we are responsible to inspire and empower each other as women as sisters because um When I got this campaign from you guys I start thinking how can I take this Further than than just my an apologetic side. So I had this idea of Reaching out to my circle of women my my community, which is my my family friends and also my colleagues and my clients And I asked them. What are you not sorry for and the moment that many women Read this um letter of mine and and it's it's just like planting a seed that it wasn't there That maybe I used to say sorry to my kids for example Sorry, but I'm gonna work because I love working But now it's like, you know what I'm not sorry You know, so all these women that I've reached out I noticed that it's like a ripple effect because you know It's not only for us because sometimes you live confident or you live your life thinking I'm doing whatever I want and I'm not going to follow any rules But the the thing is it's up to us to You know practice this and to own it and to also pass it because if we just keep it to ourselves The world is not going to change. So you actually need to join forces and to you know, shoot all these Information and all these insights to other women, especially, you know, so we can change this for real So I totally agree with Lynn that that is our Responsibility to reach out to our own circle of women so they can also pass that to their own circle of women You know and say hey, no, sorry Why? So that makes me think about how yeah, how can we make change right so Lynn touched on it. Marcella. You've touched on it I mean all of us I think we can do small things internally But then we can also support each other externally. Are there other thoughts of ways that I mean this is to your point Lynn, this is systemic. This isn't going anywhere anytime soon I'm encouraged that it goes away with time. Hopefully as life experience and confidence grow But what are things we can do now to make a difference? To kind of improve this You know, I'm somebody who works with you know, other young female entrepreneurs and You know other young girls will also want to start their own nonprofits or you know be activists and You know, I like I do a lot of work either just reaching out or when they reach out to me, you know I give them advice or even just mentoring as well And I I tend to focus in on some of those same areas around Confidence too because no matter what you're going to be doing in life You have to have some sort of a you know, some sort of I guess a Back up to to kind of fall back on like even within yourself You need to be able to rely on yourself To advocate for yourself and that's something that's not easy especially like as lin said when this has been trained into women and girls for literally centuries You know, this is something that takes practice and it's really like a skill set and a tool That you kind of have to use as self-advocation And being able to really voice your authentic view on something without having to you know sprinkling those small size to make it more palatable That is a skill that you know, it has you have to develop and it doesn't always have to be based on your personality I'm somebody who is very You know introverted And I have had to teach myself how to communicate Exactly what I'm thinking and feeling effectively in a way that is beneficial Not just for myself But whether it's a project that I'm working on that I feel like you know, I have this great idea But I don't know how everybody else is going to feel about it. You know, just go for it And so my advice too to all the Women and you know, even men that are watching that are also Small business owners or you know, what have you you know reach back and support the other You know upcoming women and girls In your life in your circle Who could need your help or your support or you know, just a word of advice or encouragement To continue to be confident in themselves as well I think that We really you know as women we live In a way a lot of ways we live in a lot of ways to I guess accommodate men, you know very often and that shows up in so many little ways Whether it's the small sorry's or you know, even sometimes As you know as they're kind of touched on kind of beating yourself up because you're not as confident as you want to be And maybe you're basing that on like the male standards of confidence, which aren't always great example and you know, even to Just like little things like I've seen seeing a lot of women posting videos about how they have to delete All of the exclamation points from their emails to sound more like how their male counterparts type And I'm like I do that too. It's like why can't I put 500 exclamation points in my email? I want you to hear how excited I am about this I still do that on every email I put Yes, I want I'm so glad like that's the thing like it's just little stuff like we have to stop filtering ourselves and our true personalities And whether that is we have to build our confidence or we have to let our true emotions show and be You know proud of being more emotional and excited whether that's quote-unquote Unprofessional, you know, we have to figure out what does professional really mean? Is that just built on toxic masculinity? You know, like do we need to rework these definitions? So there's so much to unpack, but I really I always reach back Yeah, I always just reach back and you know support and give back to the The young like women and girls in my life because I see myself in them, you know I think also as women we're like afraid of being called crazy And I I feel like that's something that Is used towards women at least in my life time I feel like that's been that word crazy has been used more towards women that it has to men um And it's usually a man saying but you know, I've heard women say it about other women as well and I think To what Maya was saying. I mean just unapologetically being ourselves and Being I don't know. I feel like I'm my best when I'm able to be free and be my wild self and You know the people that are gonna call me crazy aren't really I don't need to have those people in my life Right, right and you being your authentic wild self may inspire someone else to do it too and feel 100% and you know me speaking out about my mental health and not not only just You know talking about it kind of sugarcoating it but really like showing it and talking about it in like it's It's not pretty at times. It's horrible and you know being able to talk about that You know, there are people in the music industry that are like don't do that That's gonna ruin, you know any chance of having a career or you know, whatever and It's really cool because I feel like I have inspired other, you know, it doesn't gender doesn't really matter but You know inspired other human beings to you know, feel confident enough to you know, talk to Their parents for the first time and say, you know, I have depression And and I think you know being a woman sometimes it feels harder But even for men, I mean, it's really hard to talk about that stuff. And so yeah being you know, I I think We just need to Go out there to do what we do and do it in the best possible way and how we You authentically want to do it and that will just you know inspire Other human beings and I'm already inspired by everybody here. It's so crazy Crazy, I said crazy sorry In a good way a good crazy I mean, it's okay to be crazy, I think I agree with Marcella I think too when you are a woman who has gotten to that confident point That social media showing that true authentic self can really Have a very huge ripple effect and I have to use my own experience um as an example because I came on to the fashion scene not knowing anybody I do no retouching I'm an older woman. Um the person who Fashion appears least likely to You know put in the mix but because I had confidence I was able to project this image that if I could just share like the thousands literally of emails and dms I get from younger and older women about how um how I Help them to be who they really want to be Regardless of what the rules say about what you should wear once you're 60 or whatever or whatever or whatever and I think that It's been an unanticipated benefit for me To hear from all of these women from younger women who say You're making me afraid not to be old that I can reinvent myself.  I never did I'm going I don't care now. I'm going to just go do it and I'm going to have that confidence and so I think Putting yourself out as a role model When you have been able to do it particularly if you use visuals and creativity You can really make a difference and engage more people because that's how people are engaged today They're not engaged through lectures as a professor. I could tell you that So I think how do we get people in the conversation? I agree. I I I think that being vulnerable and humble goes way far than faking it until you make it And also I wanted to add with Maya that I got into this exercise that I did with my women I got one that says that she was introverted and and she felt the need to apologize because of who she was all the time I'm sorry. I'm shy. I'm sorry. I cried too much. I'm sorry this. I'm sorry that So many things, you know, so I think it comes to personality that you feel sorry for being you and that's not okay and also something else that um came to me um When I'm hearing everyone That we need to take credit that being entrepreneur and this goes for men and women That requires a lot of confidence even even if you don't think you have it just by Throwing your ideas and making it that says that you do don't I mean you don't care about Just making your dream come true. So I think for me, that's confidence I love that. Yeah, it's definitely inspiring others which all of you do um through your work every day and um I can't believe how much time has already gone by so quickly And uh, I want to make sure that if anyone had anything else they wanted to share that they had the chance I I do just want to ask um Add something very quick because um in the question said that if it was an american thing Oh, yeah, do we think this over apologizing is an american thing? And I whoever is listening it is not I am Mexican and the culture do Make you this small And it makes you feel that because of being a woman is your responsibility to clean the dishes to do this So many things and then you have to apologize for not doing it or for not making dinner or for many things So it's not an american thing Against the global phenomenon awesome But no, it's interesting to hear how you know how it plays out in the rest of the world too I just wanted to also add that there are I kind of mentioned this in the very beginning There are also other layers that impact every woman's experience You know my experience as a black woman in this space You know, that's even more intensified because black women are often characterized as being you know Angry or sassy or you know, like whatever these stereotypes are and so anytime we you know do You know, we don't apologize when it's not necessary. We advocate for ourselves or we're confident You know, it can come off to a lot of you know, our white counterparts too as being you know, aggressive And so this is like there's you also have to tackle of course the the gender like element But then there's also a lot of elements, you know of race You know among so many other things of age, you know ageism on you know for older and younger women So all of that definitely impacts every woman's unique and individual experience. And so I think that a huge like important pillar like a building a better Future for women to feel confident and to express themselves to kind of really give women the space to speak about all these different unique facets and You know figure out how we can uplift each other and still see How we're impacted differently as well. I love that. Thank you for sharing Thank you guys so much for joining me and being so honest In your stories and in your leadership, we appreciate you so much and happy women's history month


This thing, guys, watch this thing for tomorrow. If there is, and I don't have any right now, obviously, you know, it ran up $3 down there, but that's okay. Okay, I chose not to go back in. I'm okay with that. But tomorrow, I am definitely watching Meta. If it opens up lower into rising support, I wanna watch Meta because again, look how close it is to the top of the range here from the highest from the beginning of the month. And if this thing starts confirming the highs in the beginning of the month, man, this thing could really, really take off. Apple, we talked about yesterday, not quite yet ready. But again, this thing is setting up just like Microsoft did a couple of days ago, right? You can see it really, really tight here. If Apple can somehow reclaim the five-day moving average, maybe this thing finally wakes up and joins the party because you guys remember, it still hasn't, it still hasn't confirmed the earnings high run. So it's very, very close. So if they could reclaim the five-day moving average in the next day or so, hopefully tomorrow, I think we get back to the highs.


Here, when I'm using the network benchmarks, I can see that there is one or two seconds difference between the JGIT implementation and the GIT implementations. With that benchmark, I actually saw maybe half a second or less than that kind of a difference, that too with large repositories. Small repositories, it was almost comparable. But with this experiment, with each of the repositories, that is the Jenkins or the Ruby, the GIT and the JGIT, there is a two or three second difference with, for an example, GIT with Jenkins is taking 21 seconds per operation. GIT with, oh, I'm sorry, I'm actually comparing two different things. One thing I have to say is that I'm not going to use these graphs because I myself get confused where I'm explaining these graphs. I'm going to simplify them to much smaller, I'm going to break them down to much smaller graphs for individual tests I have. So the first test was basically just one fetch. With the second test, GIT redundant fetch benchmark, it's with two fetches. So 21 seconds per operation, 23 seconds per operation, basically means the difference when we're adding the second fetch to the equation. So the differences you're seeing in per second operations, the differences, the gain you're seeing is because we're adding the second operation in the equation, in the benchmark. So I'd say with the considerable increase I've seen is with the last one, is that is the JGIT with Ruby with the double fetches, it took 268 seconds per operation. And with just one clone, it took 256. But then again, there's a problem. The problem is the, yes, the error rate. And because we're averaging results, it's always dangerous because an extreme observation might skew the whole result. So that's one thing that this is one of the things main. Possibly I could use another metric than average. I actually have to look if I could look at something like median, median is not affected by the very, the large, if you have a large variability, for example, if you have a 500 MB repository, it usually takes 10 seconds to fetch it. But because of the network, because of the variability, it took 20 seconds and it skews the result too much with average. I could possibly use median, which that would not happen with the median. It would take the middle observation. So I would have to look on that. How can I, I would have to look at the metrics JMH provides. I've seen its throughput, then I've seen average, and I'll see the other one as well. Maybe we can choose a better metric if when we are talking about benchmarking operations over the network. So the claim that using a big repository, using a large repository, we could see performance degradation for JGIT with the redundant. I cannot claim that because the error rate, you can see error bar, it's high. But with all of the results we have, there is a second or a two second difference. And the profiling results I shared, I shared them in the platform sig meeting. I shared one result was erroneous because it had like a six, what did I, three or four minutes difference between the double fetches and a single fetch. That's not true. But the other experiments, all the other experiments showed me that there is a good five or 10 seconds latency added because of the second fetch. And one more hypothesis, kind of a hypothesis I have, which I have to ask you guys is that maybe I'm seeing here two or three seconds because I am running the operation in a JVM. I'm not running it in a Jenkins instance, but when I'm running it in a Jenkins instance, there might be some overheads which would be added, which the environment is different, basically, that's, but I also, I think I assume that with CLI get, the operation is independent, the instance, instances behavior. So with that possibility that, okay, with the Jenkins instance, the performance might differ, would be considered for JGIT, maybe in the first CLI get, that's something Mark and Fran, and you guys can confirm, I'm not sure about this, but it's something I actually, yes. I would not worry much about that because the bulk of the time spent in these Git operations, either JGIT or command-line Git is done on the agent in a workspace. And therefore the JVM on that agent is probably not heavily loaded doing other things. So I wouldn't be concerned about that specific one you just referenced. It's, yes, it's certainly possible that there are other things going on, but I don't think it's likely to alter one versus the other. Okay, because Mark, when I was profiling the Jenkins instance, the second Fajit was almost taking 10 seconds, the eight seconds, not less than that, but with the benchmarks I have right now, I'm seeing differences of one second or two seconds, not more than five seconds any there, there I can be. So maybe I need to put both of those results forward and we can then analyze. Yeah, I think the data you're gathering is good to report. And if we say, hey, I can't explain why the difference happens here, that I think that's still perfectly reasonable to say, I don't yet have an explanation for this data. Okay, I'll probably say that, I'll do that. Okay, so this was the second deliverable. First was benchmark, the second was the fixing the redundant fetch issue. The third one, yes, so the third one would be implementing performance improvement into the plugin. This is going to be our way forward as well. So the thing we know is that we're going to provide a compatibility switch to the users. I've shown you guys how we can put it in the configuration page. It's by default, we're going to enable performance improvement changes in the plugin. Someone, a user can by choice, revert to the old plugin if they want to. The second is the heuristics we were talking about, the repository estimated class. And with that, I also have, I think we're, the time is over, it's 8.30. So I think I'll probably write that in the channel if it's okay with you guys. Or if you guys are comfortable, I could discuss something. One more thing I wanted to discuss. Actually, I'd propose, go ahead. I've got the time. Others can drop off if they need to drop off. And you're welcome to describe it in Gitter as well if you'd like, Rishabh. So I'll just take, it's probably a minute. So this was the demo, this is the basic framework. Of course I'm going to add the things I have discussed and the graphs and the clear graphs, not the default graphs we get from the visualizer website. So I'm going to do that. And I'll share that as soon as I can. And you guys have the editors access to the slides. So right now it doesn't have too much content to edit but once it does, you guys can modify it and change it. So while I was looking at Git LS remote, so we have the method which is implemented in the Git client is called Git remote references. So I actually, I found a class called Git SEM telescope which basically is an extension point which examines a repository from a distance without requiring a local checkout. And that is exactly something we want to do. The examination might be different but the kind of examination we want to do might be different but it's a huge relief and help for me because there's something I can look up to and I can possibly, now the questions to the first question I would have with this class would be do I add my, the things I want to do in this class because it is, in a general sense it is examining a repository and estimating the size of the repository also can come under examining a repository. The only thing we would have to worry the biggest thing would be to not break the existing cases we have while adding those things. So if my changes or adding them would change the current status of the plugin, then to keep it in a separate class because estimation of the size might be, I don't know, it's not dangerous but I don't know if it could result in any kind of issues we have not thought about I could have a separate class for it but this seems like a great place to add those things. Now, the Git SEM telescope, I saw that this class is extended by, it's actually used in the abstract Git SEM source and to the basic understanding I have the Git SEM source is the implementation of SEM source the SEM API which is basically created for a single repository we have one SEM source as far as I know and we create a Git SEM object using abstract Git SEM source. This is like, this is the implementation to create Git SEM objects. That is what I've seen as of now the preliminary examination I've had on the class. So I can see here that the telescope is being used by abstract Git SEM source to get the remote references and I'm not sure what it is doing with it right now but it's using it. So I can do the same thing. The heuristics is the first one, the cache thing we could probably, we could have that and then with the APIs I have to first figure out if the information is correct or not and we're going to review since REST APIs are not used in the project you would have to discuss that as well but I can look at this class and make something similar. So I just need to know should I add my functionality to this class or make another extension point? So I am delighted you discovered this. Stephen Connolly will be delighted you discovered this and I think you fit its use model perfectly and I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't point you to this initially. Well done, Rashab. That's why I think it's my job Mark to explain. Well, you did a brilliant job of it so this looks exactly like what you need. I would assume, but again, this is from my inexperience I would assume that you want to provide an implementation of this thing and use it. I use that implementation to do that. You use get SCM telescope but you are welcome to add to it if that will help you. If this is not some, you're not allowed to change it. The person who created this class is in my world a genius. So you need to, he's absolutely fundamentally brilliant and so you should think very carefully before you modify this. My code looks like a mortal wrote it, right? It looks like somebody who is still learning, still struggling. Stephen who wrote this particular code is over the top brilliant in doing things. So absolutely, this is a great place to work and a great place for you to think about should I insert it here or should I create an implementation that uses this abstract class? And I'm not sure I'm the right one to guide you. Fran is probably much better suited or Justin in terms of deciding which layer you put it at. But you've chosen a brilliant class to look at and SCM telescope with its objective of getting information about a repository without a local checkout seems to fit exactly with what you're trying to do with heuristics, right? Yes, we'll take the cash if we got it because that's the most reliable. But if we don't have a cash, SCM telescope gives us a way to go looking at the thing and express that as a concept. Yes, ma'am. So, okay. So Fran and Justin, do you guys have any advice you would like to give me before I explore more SCM telescope? Yeah, I agree with Mark. I think this is a really good path a little bit for this. Like I said, I think also I think Mark I would play around with this and see what you might be missing versus what you already have here. And then I think placement and stuff would probably be a result of what the answers to those questions would be. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. Okay, I'm going to explore this class more and then possibly the easiest thing for me to do would be to add the heuristics here. But we'll discuss that in much later, greater depth once I explore the class more. So, yes, thank you guys for giving your extra time and the time you guys gave usually. So I'm going to refine the presentation and then you guys can review it whenever you guys have the time. Now, how long is that? As I looked at your slides, I thought, wow, this is an hour or more of Rishabh talking. Do you know how long they're allocating to you to do the presentation? Do they give you an hour? Do they give you? I actually wanted to ask that question to you guys because I could not see anywhere where I did look at the demos for the last time but they were taking 20, 30 minutes but it varies with individuals but I'm not sure what is the formal allocated time maybe I'll ask Oleg. Well, I think Oleg just went on vacation today. So Martin, let's just ask the GSOC org administrators. I believe Martin Dianju will host the meeting on Wednesday. So we could ask Martin, hey Martin, I would go a different approach. I would say Martin, I think I should have about 30 minutes. Is it okay if I take 30 minutes? And then if Martin doesn't answer, you just do assume 30 minutes. I wouldn't go much more than 30 minutes just because I assume they've got other people who want to present. There are seven projects that need to present. I agree, I agree. Yes, Mark. I'm going to streamline the presentation because right now I was discussing a lot of things as well so of course I'm going to keep it under 30 minutes. That's what I thought as well. Okay. Great. Thank you. I agree with that. I think if I remember right, it was 20, 30 minutes last year. But yeah, that's to confirm. Okay, Justin. Okay. So I think we should, we can end the meeting now. All right, and I apologize in retrospect. I had not started the recording until about 20 minutes into the meeting. So the meeting recording is a flawed record of what we've discussed. Rishabh, you're doing great. Thank you. I'll post the recording, the pieces of the recording that exists shortly. That's okay. All right. And Wednesday, so we will talk whatever the day the presentation is, but we'll also have our usual session or does our usual session collide next week with the presentations? I think they haven't decided the exact timings for the presentation. And they are going to have it in two batches. So not all of the guys are going to present at the same date. They'll have it on July one and for July two they haven't decided the times but three students may be on the first date or three or four more in the second one. That's how it's going to be. All right, so we are currently scheduled the 30 minutes prior to that meeting. So the phase one demos will be 30 minutes, will be exactly after our scheduled time on Wednesday. Do we as a group of mentors want to meet on Wednesday or do we allow you that time to have final preparation without the mentors? We could either cancel Wednesday's meeting in favor of you getting using the time to prepare or we could have the meeting with the entire focus being 10 or 15 minutes of looking one last time at your material before you present. What do you prefer, Rishabh? Do you want to meet Wednesday or not? I think we could meet for 10, 15 minutes before the, it wouldn't harm to get a review before presenting. I'm okay both ways actually, I don't have a problem because you guys will review the presentation, Google slides and I think I've given a fair estimation of what I'm going to say. So if you guys think that it needs a review before the final presentation, then it's okay with me. Okay, let's do the meeting then. Let's do the meeting. You've given us the flexibility, I'm prone to say let's do the meeting, we'll talk one more time and we can always stop it early if we feel a need to stop it early.  Sure, sure, good luck. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Okay. Thanks, Rishabh. Have a great weekend. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you.


Warner Brothers, believe it or not, Fam, at one point was looked at as a studio that knew how to get things done. And they did a bang-up job doing it. That changed about the time Fantastic Beasts 1 hit theaters, and ever since then it's been a string of disappointments on the superhero side with all the DC stuff, to really just kicking themselves in the balls whenever they come out with a property that's a reboot or a remake, a rehash, a requel, a sequel, a sidequel, a fucklo. It doesn't matter. If Warner Brothers is involved, it's surely gonna hit the high caliber that Sony Pictures puts out for itself when it comes to things like Morbius and Madame Webb. They're basically synonymous at this point to me. And once again, our studio has decided, in their infinite wisdom, to take the already lifeless husk of Neo, the chosen one, drag his corpse up to the top of the roof, and put a bullet in his head, saying, Dodge this one last time, fully well-knowing. There's absolutely no way to dodge that bullet. This asshole's going down, just like the Matrix did. A movie back. Let's talk about what's happening. This just in, dipshits. They're making another Matrix movie. Why? Because the last one was so well-received, I suppose. It sits at around 60% in Rotten Tomatoes and 5-point-something on IMDb. You are honestly gonna tell me, in 2024, that 60-some percent of critics thought that Matrix regurgitations was a good film. Resurrections was worthy of a fresh score.  I kid, listen, I know hyperbole is a fun thing on the internet. I know it's fun to say a bunch of wild statements. This is the worst movie ever made. This movie is lower than excrement. The Matrix resurrections is legitimately one of the worst movies I've ever seen in theaters. Competently done? No. I don't think so. I think it's a horseshit film. The movie was so bad that people that defend the film say it was poorly made on purpose.  Warner forced their hands, so they burned the bridge. They burned it down! So that future Matrix movies would be impossible. Oh, really? Because we just got an announcement that they're making another one. So not only did one of the Wachowskis ruin the film franchise they built, they did it all for nothing. Because here we go again. Listen, I know I'm shot out of a cannon on this because the Matrix is near and dear to my heart. 1999's film was revolutionary. So there's a reason why they called the third one revolutions. It really was a revolutionary time in cinema. It really upped the ante in terms of fighting, in terms of action, in terms of spectacle in a sci-fi action film. And there would be countless flicks that would keep repeating this process for years to come.  There's an entire roast on my channel that's like 30 minutes long. You are more than welcome to treat yourself to that and subscribe to the channel if you like my content. For this though, I'm gonna give you both my negative, my jaded cynical perspective, and my positive, optimistic fan perspective. Let's start with the negative. I think this is a horrible idea, because Warner Brothers has proven that it doesn't give two shits about the fans, or about movie lovers. They're willing to greenlight any dumb idea that's possible. Just look at the, the fantastic Bees are a thing. That's a terrible idea on paper. It's horrible and they didn't even finish it was so bad. They continuously make these terrible choices, these awful decisions with their properties. And here we are again with the Matrix 5, tentatively titled that. That's not what it's gonna be called. I have some ideas myself, because again, there's an optimistic part of me here. I freaking love the Matrix. I've forgiven the route that it went with Reload and Revolutions. I actually really like Reloaded. Sorry I said Reload before, that's a Metallica album. I celebrate their entire catalog. Well, everything up until St. Anger I would say. Reloaded is just a balls to the walls awesome action film with an occasional stopoff into metaphor land, but that's fine. Revolutions, definitely the worst, easily the worst and kind of a hot mess, but I have forgiven it and the trilogy as a whole, it works for me. I really enjoy it.  So five has a very high hill to climb. I do not think that Warner Brothers will pull it off, although the Wachowskis are not back in any sort of major capacity.  All that's known right now is Drew Goddard's on board for writing. He previously worked on The Martian, which I freaking love that movie, very tight script, really just an intense film all around, feel good movie, and he wrote World War Z. So not great on the second one, but that movie went through tons of reshoots and rewrites and who knows. Bottom line is literally anyone could have been picked as long as it's not a Wachowski and I would be better. I'd be more comfortable because it's clear they hate their own child at this point. Putting all that aside, what do I want to see from a new Matrix film? Well, for starters, let's call it The Matrix Rebooted. This is the only franchise in the history, as far as I know, that can get away with rebooting itself and having it make sense inside the movie. So just call it Matrix Rebooted. Let's have a new cast. Let's have a completely new story. Don't do the one. We don't need a one storyline that's been done three times, four times over. Let's have a new lore. Let's put it inside of a Matrix and that'll be the connection and that's all we need. Will they do that? Of course not, because Hollywood's all about soft reboots. They got to do nostalgia. They got to get buckets in the seats. So my prediction, and this is the jaded part coming out again. We get Keanu back, maybe Carrie Ann Moss comes back, Fishburn's back. We love our fish. We love our Lawrence Fishburn. We bring Morpheus back. And we just have these very small limited roles for them. It's going to be a soft reboot. You have to have the old dogs come back for one last ride, but they're going to pass off the torch. We're thinking Ghostbusters afterlife, Creed, The Force Awakens, Jurassic World in a capacity in a sense. They would later on keep adding more of the legacy characters as the films got worse. They kind of did it opposite. I guess just rebooting the park itself was the same thing. This works very well in the horror department too. You have Scream passing the torch with the old legacy characters who again might now be taking their own torch back because of all the disasters behind that scenes. Then you have Halloween. It just, it just, this is what we do. So I do not believe for a second that Warner Brothers will go outside of that norm, outside of that trend and just try to make a good film. I think they're going to say, we got to have Neo back. We got to have Fish in this one. Morpheus, we don't though, okay? It was a product of its time. It was amazing. It still holds up incredibly well. I've watched the trilogy just recently. I still freaking love it. My kids love it. So it has lasting power.   They should be able to look however they want, right? So I don't think Lawrence Fishburn would perceive himself as an aged up old guy, you know, that's a little bit heavy. No, that's ridiculous. Let's move on to new characters in a new storyline. What is it going to be? Well, I'm not the writer in this case and I probably would need more than the time it's taking me to record to come up with something. But I know that there's got to be more to the Matrix than just the chosen one white savior shtick and they're tentatively titling at Matrix five, which makes me think they're not going to do a prequel where it's the fall of the human race and the rise of the machines. That could be very interesting. We really never see it in sci-fi. We always get glimpses and teases and like the terminator and whatnot, but we don't ever get to see the full crash and burn and then the rise from the ashes. That would be cool, especially with the animatrix providing a lot of that story already. We can take from that. We can use that. For me, though, the Matrix was just a feeling. It was all about the slick presentation.  That was just, that was just the Wachowski's doing their thing. Like, oh, it's a metaphor for trans rights or it's a Jesus thing. Look at Neo's doing the cross in the third film. It's all just an allegory at the end of the day. Fine, do whatever you want over there. What I'm looking for, what I'm more interested in is a cool dude with shades, a leather jacket, double machine guns, bullet time, slow motion going through a window. Things whipping around, whizzing, punching guys are like spinning through the air. Trinity, help. Not trying to do that. We'll use different characters. This is a new movie. Not a soft reboot. I think of the most iconic villain in movie history, Agent Smith. Mr. Anderson. So good. It's about the style. It's about the awesome choreographed action. It's about the energy these movies have, the feel these films have. And then your pepper and some mystery, some commentary. You got the Oracle in there. You got Seraph in there. You got the kid with the spoon, spoon kid. It's all there. It's layered. That's what made it so smart and edgy at the time. We got to find a way to modernize that without losing what made it so good to begin with. It's a very hard pill to swallow, pun intended. But let's see if these assholes can take the red pill and see how deep this rabbit hole can go. The Matrix to me is endless opportunity, much like Star Wars can be because it's galaxy far far away. There's so many different stories and ways you can take it. The same can be said for Middle Earth, comic book films set within a universe. There's just so many options for rich storylines and in unique characters and settings. Oftentimes though, these companies just fall back on lazy what works opportunistic ideas and they never really put themselves out there because it's all about financial gain at the end of the day. They have shareholders that they have to appeal to. They have books. They got a hit certain targets. It's the game is just it's become too manufactured at this point. It's all about money and there's not even a sliver. There's not even a little tiny bit of that anymore that feels like it's about the art and making something truly special. And so all that said, am I excited for the Matrix 5? Hell no, I'm not because I saw what they did in my baby last time and it put me in a very bad place. But on the other hand, this little tiny part that's still alive somewhere where the crust it over shape of a heart used to be, he's out there yelling. He's saying, yes, let's do it. Let's try again. Let's try again. We got new voices here. We got a new writer. We'll get a new director. We'll get new characters, hopefully. And why not give him a shot? And I hope that little guy continues to have a voice and it gets louder as we hear more about this film. Okay, now I want to hear your voice. What do you think about this news? Are you excited somehow?  We got that out of our system. We learn from our mistakes. We're going to go a completely different direction closer to the vision of the original Matrix. I'm here for it. Let me know. Or are you thinking, no, screw this. These movies are all dead in the water. They're products of their time. I'm sick of all the remakes and the reboots in the sequels. Get away from the Indiana Jones, the Ghostbusters, the Star Wars. Start doing new things and leave the past in the past. Let me know, though. Please subscribe to the channel if you're new here. I post tons of movie reviews, rants, commentary every single week. It's all movies all the time. We'd love to have you stick around. There's also a second channel I just started. Adam does rants. That's everything non-movie related and it's all very loose and fun. It's just me bitching typically for 15 or so minutes about something trivial that we all can kind of agree to at a point where maybe people are being rude on their phones in public or public bathrooms are disgusting beyond all means now in 2024 or baristas are a lot more rude now with the stores. There's a lot of things, a lot of things to cover over there. I'm keeping it loose in light and I hope to have you there. All right. That's all I got. Hopefully I'll see you next time.