Welcome to Dare to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger. This show is sponsored by Dr. Dane here and Access Consciousness. They do amazing energy work, healing work out into the world, all over the world. So if you would like to look at their books at their programs or become a facilitator, go to drdanehere.com and accessconsciousness.com. The Dare to Dream podcast has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards, as well as a Webby Award. And it's ranked in the top best podcast in all of USA and self-improvement on Apple podcasts and also ranks in the top podcast in other countries as well. Last week, we broke very high in Italy, which made me thrilled, especially because we're gonna be talking about past lives today with our guest. And I'm pretty sure I've had at least a few in Italy. So thanks, Italy, for checking in with us. I am a certified coach whose expertise is visibility and media. I coach people to write a page, turn a book, take their book to a guaranteed international bestseller, and I pull back the curtain. So clients have the system to be interviewed on media and podcasts and get massive results. I show people how to find and use the podcast to find and use media exposure to locate their tribe, fill workshops, sell books, and gain exposure. You can connect with me at debbie-dot-com, D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R-dot-com. And you can click there as soon as you get on the site and you can receive my gift to you. What's your message out to the world? It's a template to fill in and you'll also get some free tools and templates so that you can increase your visibility out into the world right away. Question, would you like to unleash the wisdom and power of a thousand lifetimes through past life therapy to discover your soul's design and purpose? My guest today is Joanne DiMaggio. She's a respected expert in the field of reincarnation and soul writing, which she describes as a written form of meditation. Joanne has been actively involved with Edgar Casey's Association for Research and Enlightenment since 1987, and she's been the coordinator for the ARE in Charlottesville, Virginia team since August 2008. She earned her master's in transpersonal studies degree and her spiritual mentor certificate through Atlantic University. She's a much thought after lecturer. She's given talks about past life exploration, life between lives and soul writing. Joanne has been professionally pursuing past life research and therapy for over 30 years. She's a graduate of the Eastern Institute of Hypnotherapy with additional training and hypnosis and also studied under Dr. Irene Hickman, who's a pioneer in the field of non-directive hypnotherapy. She's written many, many books and you can look online for them and she is even working on a book yet to come. And today we'll be talking about her latest book called I Did It to Myself Again, new life between lives case studies show how your soul's contract is guiding your life. If you would like to learn more about her books and her services and who she is, go to joanndemagio.com. And Joanne, it is so great to have you on Dear to Dream. Welcome to the show. Thanks Debbie, I'm really glad to be here today. Yeah, so I'm gonna show people your book just to get started here. And I'm excited to deep dive into this and in fact into the entire subject of what you offer. So I wanna start here because when it comes to past lives and reincarnation and reading everything that's in your book, it becomes very clear there are no mistakes, right? There's great purpose why we're here, why we're in this body, why we chose our parents, all of that. And so that said, would you speak to what is happening in a global sense right now in the world that you and I are here right now living today during the COVID pandemic, during the uproar in politics, during a lot of shifts and changes. Is there a reason that we agreed on a soul level now? Well, yeah, I think that everyone should realize that nothing is random. There's nothing random in the universe at all. It's all well planned out. And a lot of people are asking that question why am I here now of all time? Why do I have to go through this? I don't wanna go through this.  So I think that experiences that we're having in this time are enabling our souls to grow, to work on karmic issues from the past we're applying some karma and our karmic attributes in order to work through a lot of the things that are happening. It's really about the present. Past life work is about the present. So it's how are you handling this? Are you becoming a, maybe you're becoming a role model to somebody. So it isn't necessarily what you're doing, volunteering somewhere, doing something like that. It's, even to your own family, how are you responding to this? What are the words you're using? What are the thoughts you're using? What are your actions?  But I think also it's given many, many of us an opportunity to stop in our tracks and to revisit why we're here. What's our purpose? Start to reprioritize things in our lives that maybe we neglected from before. So it's giving us many, many positive opportunities for growth that we would not normally have had we not been faced with this. So spending this concerted amount of time at home has opened a lot of doors. Like I was mentioning to you earlier, for me, it's all about understanding technology and gee, how does Zoom work and all those things that I normally wouldn't have thought of. But all these things are helping me to reach more people and in effect to offer some healing services. It's all about that question of why. And a lot of past life work is surrounds that question. Why? Why is this happening? Why am I here? Why did I pick these parents? Why do I have these problems in relationships? Why do I have financial problems? All those questions that we ask can be answered through this work. And then taking it a step further going into the life between lives, that whole project came about because a lot of people are afraid of death.   If their answers are basically the same, which they were, by the way, then you can safely say to yourself, well, that must be the way it is. That doesn't sound so bad. And that fear becomes less and less and less. And especially now, with so many of our fellow brothers and sisters passing over at this time, having that fear that, well, if it's in your own family or you're afraid for yourself, understanding what the life process is that the continuation of life is and understanding what happens once you are on the other side. I think that's the value of this work. For those who have not yet read your book, but are curious when you say to a person, when you ask the question, what happens after you die, then you'll see consistent feedback on that. What was the feedback that you received? What was the pattern you heard over and over and over again? Surprisingly, they all said basically the same thing. They had no fear of death at all. They were fully conscious of which meant that they knew that they were dying. They had a total sense of freedom and release from this life. They were relieved. And they said it was a very gentle process. There were a few that said that felt like they were, that their soul was either squeezed out of the body or yanked out of the body. But most of them said that it was very peaceful and a great majority said they could move around freely afterwards. They did not necessarily hover over the body that happens a lot in near death experiences, but I didn't find that happening that much in the life between life. I think it's because they knew that that life was definitely ending. They weren't going to pop back into that body. So most of them left immediately. Those that had a traumatic death which I thought was real interesting.  You knew they might have been tortured or something horrendous. They burned at the stake or something like that. Those people said that their soul left their body before the physical body, the body physically died. So they popped out before the body actually was gone. So they did not have to endure that the pain of that death. And I always think of Joan of Arc because I've heard that story over and over again where I've heard that her soul left her body long before her body died. So that was comforting to know that even in the worst of circumstances, we have the ability to pop out at will and just let that go, let the physical part of us go. Yeah, that's very interesting. And it is comforting, I agree, because some of those stories are pretty horrific to hear and imagine. And I know that you're very well respected as an expert reincarnation as well as in soul writing. So I am familiar with reincarnation because, you know, I've done it over and over again. I'm familiar with it, it's a little joke there. But as far as soul writing goes, that is a new term for me. So can you describe what is soul writing? How do we do soul writing? What is the reason for doing it? Sure, well, the reason I got involved with soul writing was it ended up being the thesis for my master's degree. And my first book, soul writing, accessing your inner voice had to do with soul writing, had to do with the process of it, which I learned from Edgar Cayce. I'm a student of Edgar Cayce. Soul writing is a written form of meditation. It is writing in an altered state of consciousness. So it's you going into a meditative state, however you do it, when you do your normal meditations, surround yourself with white light, say prayer protection, and then put the pen in your hand and just allow it to freely let the words reveal themselves. Now, this is not automatic writing. There is a difference between the two. Automatic writing, and I list in my book and also on my website, not on my website, but in my book, the difference between the two. So the people understand that it's not the same as automatic writing, which the ARE listed automatic writing, I think is the number one or two, no, no. If you want to develop your psychic abilities, I think the Ouija board was right up there with it. And that's because with automatic writing and you're skipping some steps, you're not doing the white light protection, the prayer and it can let some lower level influences kind of get in and take over your hands. So they were a little worried about possession. And I can attest to that. If you take shortcuts sometimes, and I was doing that in the beginning of my exploring all of this, and I knew that something else was working in my hand. I could feel the difference. You could feel it. But the thing about the soul writing, which is so beautiful. I changed the name. I think your case, he called it inspirational writing. But if you look up inspirational writing now, it's all Christian genre books. If you look up automatic writing, it's all occult. So I thought neither one of those was the right definition. This is information coming from above, coming through you into your soul and out again. I think of it as a 24 seven phone home card. You can ask any question of spirit that you want at any time that you want, and you'll always get an answer. So for a lot of people that they've talked to their friends about their problems, they've talked to their ministers or priests about their problems. They've gone to therapists, they've talked to family members, and they're still struggling with something. Well, you can get answers through soul writing, which will answer those questions for you. So you can either, I do it with my regression work. Some people, when we're done with the regression, I'll say to them, do you wanna have the soul writing? Because the soul writing will get to an even deeper level. It'll give them the backstory of what they just saw. It'll answer any questions that didn't get answered. And it may give them some guidance on, well, we'll say, what am I supposed to do with this information, Joanne? Well, okay, let's ask spirit. And so you get some information that way. So there's all kinds of ways of applying it to your life. It's just got this incredible long list of applications for whether you're mainstream or whether you're deeply involved in esoteric studies. And it doesn't matter what age you are either. I think this is a good thing for children to learn, but I haven't really, I haven't explored that. I'm gonna wait till my grandchildren are a little bit older because they're too young yet to know how to write. So, but I think it's something that, and everybody can do it. And the more left brain you are, you know, a very analytical kind of person, the more profound and surprise that you, I've had lawyers in the audience when I was doing live programs and they were getting, and they were like stunned, stunned at the level of the depth of the information that was coming through. It's a very emotional experience. You know, I've had people cry, but many people, most people get an aha moment from it. Especially if you're at it. If you ask me for an example, so, so I'm just trying to think of what I might wanna write about. Okay, perfect. I'm gonna come up with an example. I'm just gonna throw something out there. So let's say it's gonna be Thanksgiving. We're in the middle of a pandemic. I have been invited to someone's home and, you know, science tells me, do not be around other people. This is extremely dangerous. And in fact, the cases of COVID are coming up. That would resent one thing. Another thing may be this longing. I don't wanna be separate anymore. I really wanna engage with people. So let's say I'm gonna sit down and do some soul writing. Would I use D for Debbie and S for spirit or soul or how would that start? I usually get a greeting from when I start writing. It's my dear child, we are with you in love and in light. And then the writing starts. You know, I told people that are new at it to just start to do what you're grippy loose and make ovals or elves or ease because out of that a word will come or a phrase will come. And to just allow the message to appear. It's like an Oreo cookie, Debbie. The beginning part of it is like, hello, we're glad you're here. You know, it's generic. They get to the meat of the matter right in the middle of the message. And then it flows back out again. So it isn't like you're putting Debbie, this is my question, spirit, this is there. You could do that. But it's really an unbroken stream of consciousness writing. So it'll come to you. For some people, I'll just get words. Some people will get phrases. Other people will get whole sentences. But it gets to the heart of the matter. It's the more profound the question you ask, the more profound the answer you'll receive. So it's a very valuable tool. I use it for past life work as well. You can actually, if you don't wanna do regression you can do it through soul writing because I got an entire diary of one of my past life aspects.  Your subconscious comes forward. And I was doing the writing once and all of a sudden I was getting dates 1792, 1804. And I'm like, what is this? And then the content was sounded like a historic romance novel. And I thought, I don't write like this, what is this? Well, that's what it turned out to be. It was my previous self writing her life story. And then Frank DeMarco, who's also a very prolific writer, wrote a book called Chasing Smallwood. And he did that as well, where his past life aspect of Joseph Smallwood, who lived, was a Civil War Confederate soldier, wrote all about his life. And from a historic point of view, it's fascinating to do that because that aspect of you that lived in another time period is telling you exactly what was going on in that time. So to talk about revisionist history, you learn a lot from yourself and it's all in there. It's all stored in your soul. You can access that information anytime you want. What about a future self? Have you ever been regressing somebody when in fact a future aspect of themselves came through and started relating, this is who you're gonna be at some point in a continuum? Then doesn't happen very often. It's happened, I think twice, but that's when people have asked me to do a progression rather than a regression. And you have to remember we have free will. So whatever you're gonna see of yourself in the future at any point in time can change depending on choices that you're making in this life. So I tend not to go there. I really want people to understand the past life that's impacting them now. So when I do a regression, that's what I ask a soul to do is to go to the past life that's most impacting them now because you're only working on three or four issues. And the lifetime that you're working on could have happened a thousand years ago and you've only decided now that you're gonna work on. And that's throughout my book if you'll recall, a lot of people were remembering lifetimes that happened thousands of years ago, Egypt, Rome, Atlantis even, there was one. And their soul decided, even though they've had many lifetimes in between, their soul decided, it's gonna be in this 20th century, 21st century life that we're gonna work on your issue of abandonment or your issue of responsibility or your issue of acceptance and approval. So it's really fascinating because when you go back and you see the root cause of what you're dealing with now, it makes perfect sense unlike anything else. It's like, you get these aha moments all the time, like, oh no, what the, and then you can deal with it. And once you deal with it, resolve it, forgive. We do a lot of forgiveness work and put it behind you. And then you're free to move on. You know, I'm such a believer, I love this idea of a soul contract, and the way you describe it in the book, I don't know, I guess I have a picture in my mind of what it looks like.  I'm gonna go experience XYZ and everybody's, you know, when it has off, I'm doing agreement and into the next life they go. And so, you know, mad believer, and I actually love this concept because I think when, if somebody has not had a good childhood or experienced trauma, or there's so many things you could fill in a blank, when you suddenly realize, no, I actually made an agreement to do this for great purpose. It sort of takes the onus and the victimhood off of it. So I like that very much. I have many friends who have done this work, who have come back and reported just incredible experiences during regression. So my question is really, like I have an oddity about me and I'm wondering if you experienced this with anyone else and if you might speak to it a little. So for someone like me, I'm an open-minded skeptic and I'm extremely spiritual and metaphysical. Always have been since I was little. And yet, if anybody tried to aggress me, this panic has always risen up in me. And I remember the first time someone was trying to do it in hypnosis and said, look down at your feet. What do you see? And this panic came up of having to produce something. And I was so torn between my fear of imagining and not being able to do it. And I can't tell you how free I am in every other aspect. Yeah. Right? Right. And it's continued. It's actually become a thing for me. I think one person has success with a lot of shamanistic lifetimes that I've had and that felt really right, like very profound. And he used a timeline method. But in general, somebody who might be an extremely open-minded about something like this, could there be, and I didn't think about this till I read your book and I suddenly went, oh, I wonder if this is part of like my very quirky soul design, that all this stuff is like, yep. But when it comes to the past life regression, there's something that's like the soul went, not this time. Yeah, something, there may be an obstacle in there and it may be that your soul, you're not ready to see that. Or it may be that you might be wanting to be going to a lifetime that's not very pleasant. And so you don't wanna put yourself through that. Because if you say, take me to the lifetime that's most impacting me now, and that was a very difficult, painful lifetime, you're not gonna wanna read this or that.  I had a client the other day who she would not get into the body, she would not get into her past life body. She was like next to him and she would have to ask him, like if I said to her, look down at your feet, these are the feet that you had, are they bare or are they covered? She couldn't answer it on her own. She had to turn to him to ask him if it was okay. And he only gave her so much information she could share with me. But even so, we were able to get enough that she saw the parallel between her current life and the past life. That's the goal, we wanna tie the two together. One should understand that the things that you're dealing with now had their origin in a life that may have happened many, many, many, many years ago. Okay, and you're just decided as a soul, you're so brave when you're in spirit, when you're in the afterlife, you know, I'm gonna work on that in my next lifetime. Then you get here and you go, oh no, I don't wanna work on that, you know. What is I thinking? What am I thinking? That's why I also too, like I ask people, what are your final thoughts as your soul leaves your body? Because many times that reveals the issue and what you're gonna be working on in the next lifetime. So I had a woman who had head-to-toe psoriasis. Because I do a lot with physical karma as well. I have another book that just deals with physical karma called, Karma Can Be a Real Pain. But she came to me with head-toe psoriasis and she wanted to know its source. So we went back to a lifetime in the old West where she was a called girl. And when I asked her upon her death what were her last thoughts, she said I don't wanna be touched anymore. So she manifests a skin condition in this life in which nobody wants to touch her. So that's why that was a really important element of my research project as well, asking people what were your last thoughts? Because like I said, many times that is what they're working on. If they said, I should have loved more. I should have been kinder. You know, I didn't take advantage of opportunities. There's all kinds of, or I didn't do enough for my family. In this lifetime, you could see that they're doing, they're loving more. They're being kinder. They're just to balance that out. So it's really quite fascinating when we work together to see those parallels. And as far as making it up, that's like my number one question when I get, when somebody comes to me, I'm afraid I'm gonna make it up. So you know what I say to them? Look, if you think you're gonna make it up, this implies that you've given us a lot of thought.  And so now very many people do that. And I do ask them at the end, I said, would you have made up that story? And they all say, absolutely not. So I think you could be fairly confident that this is not a figment of your imagination. But then we have to go into, well, where does imagination even come from? So, you know, so there's all kinds of elements of it.  Especially if it was emotional because I've had people, they'll cry, they'll laugh. And I can't make you do that in hypnosis. That's something that I can't force that. That's a natural thing. That just shows it's a real memory. So yeah, so it's fascinating. It is fascinating. When you were starting out in this, you're getting your degrees, you're getting your certification, you're working with some of these pretty high-end mentors. Did you have any idea that you would end up here being a multi-multi-hyphenated author with a lot of books out there speaking on stage, becoming an expert, doing these research projects. Did you have any sense that this was your calling? No, as a matter of fact, I resisted it for the longest time because I'm a writer-break professional. And when I think of what my mission in life is, which is one of the questions I ask when I do these life-between-life sessions, what's your soul's purpose? We get to that. My soul's purpose is to be a reporter for the universe. That's how I see myself, which means that I love to do research. I love to listen to everybody, read books on different subjects, put it all together, sandwich it together, and then give it to you. And so I thought, you know, I know that there's something sacred going on between the client and the therapist when they're doing this work. But unless you're in the room with them, you're never gonna know what that is. So my goal was to tell people what that was. So I had a very dear friend, Henry Leo Bouldock, who was a very prolific writer and speaker with the Edgar Cayce's ARE. He's since passed, Henry has. And so I confided in him about my own past lives and I had started a past life research organization when I lived outside of Chicago. So I would bring him in and he would do talks for us.  Why aren't you doing this work? I said, no, no, no, I'm a writer. I'm an observer and he goes, no, no, no, you should be doing this work. So he badgered me for years. And finally I gave in and I got my certification and then I went out and got my master's degree and all of that. But, you know, for me it was all about credibility. I really wanted, this wasn't a hobby for me. This was a sacred, very sacred work. And so I didn't wanna be the kind that took a weekend course, put a shingle out and then I got clients that way. So I took it very seriously. And through my work with the ARE, you know, I started to do talks, which was difficult for me in the beginning because my throat would close up. The moment I would get up to talk, it was, and I found out it was because I had a lot of throat chakras, karma from previous lives where I either had my throat slid or my tongue ripped out or I was honked or something because I was speaking my truth at that time about guess what subject, this whole subject. So naturally that memory would kick in when I would get in front of a group of people. If I didn't have a script in front of me, I was lost. So I had to work through that and then I had to work through my, getting these books published, doing the research behind the book first. So developing a research project, which I loved to do and then putting it together. And I think that by doing that, I hope that because there's all this research behind the things that I'm writing about, it's not just Joanne pontificating about something, that it lends a little bit more credibility to the projects and people can feel a little bit more confident about it if they choose to do it themselves. And I think it's interesting your connection to Edgar Cayce and A.R.E. You know, when I first started in metaphysics, I read so many of his books and I, but it's not something you hear about a lot anymore. I think is this area arena of metaphysics has become more and more populated. Why do you think you were drawn to Cayce's work or compel? Do you think it has to do with a past life? Yeah, definitely. I know that I had been in multiple past lives with him because we traveled together as a pod. We traveled together as a soul family and you can either be on the periphery of it or you can be right in the center on it. But when I first started out, I was like a little sponge. You know, this was like 1987. And Shirley McClain's book, Out on a Limb, became a miniseries in January of that year. They aired it on ABC. To me, that was my big wake-up call. I think there were a lot of sleeping metaphysicians at the time that woke up after Shirley went out on a limb and invited us to join her. And we did. And then I thought, well, where do I go now? Where do I go to get this information? And I knew about the ARE. I didn't know anything about Edgar Cayce so much. And I found such a comfort in being there and their library is to die for. I mean, it is just, I think it's the second largest next to the Vatican of metaphysical books. And it was spectacular in the classes of the conferences that they held and the newsletters and the magazines and all that. And I thought, hey, these are my people. Matter of fact, my kids used to say when I would go to an ARE conference, all mom's going to be with her people, you know? Because it was true. You could be with them and you don't have to edit what you say. So the Cayce, Cayce did 14,000 readings in his life. 12,000 of those were health readings. They were not past life readings. They were health readings. And his remedies are still way ahead of traditional medicine, I believe. But the 2000 that were life readings, he would give people their past lives and he would tell them who they had been in a previous life and why they were dealing with what happened then and then what's going on now. And actually one of the readings he gave for a little two-day-old baby boy who ended up living in the Cayce household for nine years, he said this little boy was the reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson and Alexander the Great. Now imagine being two days old and having that put on you, right? That's like the Dalai Lama, right? Some people come into the little child's house and say, you're the one, come with us. Yeah, yeah. And the Cayce said to him, this soul can do for the world what Jefferson did for this country. My book is all about why that didn't happen. That's your next book, yeah? Edgar Cayce and the Unfulfilled Destiny of Thomas Jefferson to be Born. Yeah, that's it. So I was able to go into the archives. They've got extensive archives at the ARE in Virginia Beach, that's where they're headquartered. And I was in heaven. I was just in absolute heaven to be doing all that research. But, you know, working with the ARE and then at the time listening, going to listen to people that were on the cutting edge of this work, because I had the past life research organization, I contacted the leading authors and practitioners in the field and or else they came in through the ARE because we had a big ARE file in Chicago and I was on that core team as well. And so I got to meet a lot of extraordinary people and I invited them to speak at my organization and we became friends. So they became my peer group after a while and I learned a lot from them. And so it's just been a wonderful journey and the years that I spent at Atlantic University getting my masters in, well they call it Transpersonal Psychology now. Those were fabulous years. And I hear so many people say, you know, I have your Casey saved my life because it seems so many people have stories where they're really so depressed and so they have no hope for the future. And then suddenly a Casey book will literally fall at their feet and they'll pick it up and read it. And after that the whole trajectory of their life changes. So he is my spiritual mentor and I would have given anything to have had a reading from him, but unfortunately he died before I was even born. Me too, I'm with you, John. What I would like you. Yeah, yeah.  Like that would, yeah, a gift. Are you, by the way, any relation at all to baseball player Joe DiMaggio? No, unfortunately. I know, you know, I used to sell people when they would ask me that I'd say, yes, and you should have seen my Aunt Marilyn. But no, no, I'm not. Joe and Joanne DiMaggio. Okay, and so some contracts and some of your work also includes something called the Council of Elders. Yes. So how does the Council of Elders help assist us in mapping out our next life? Well, if you think of Earth as a school, so we're all here in school, we're taking classes. So whatever you signed up for, that's your class, that's your curriculum, right? And you're here taking that class and hopefully you're gonna pass that class. The Council of Elders are made up of wise beings, they're ascended masters, they're actually are the authority in the spirit world. You can think of them, if you're gonna use the analogy of Earth as a school, think of them as your guidance counselors. So when you are in your between life time, you work with the council, you'll go before this Council of Elders. And it isn't a judgmental council, they're not there to go.  They're not, they are a very loving, non-judgmental, compassionate group of people. Their whole goal is, you know, they keep their eye on the bigger picture and that is you completing your soul's journey so that, you know, you don't need to come back anymore. So they, they're there to counsel you and they will help you look at the karmic issues that you had in this past life that you're working on now. We make a list of those issues. They'll also help you define the karmic attributes, the good, the characteristics, the things that you've worked through already and you don't need to work through them again because you've already accomplished that and what your soul's purpose is. So they, I ask everybody in my group, what do they look like? And most of them appear to be male or female typical, but I had a lot who said that they were biblical characters. They were seeing Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Moses. They were seeing Mary, Mother of God. They were seeing Archangel Michael, Archangel Raphael and this is different from the work that Dr. Michael Newton did. Now he's the expert in the field of life between lives. He's written many books on the subject and in his research, none of his people, none of his clients saw biblical characters. So I don't really know why in my group that was plenty, but they also saw kind of, they had animal totems there. They had, so some people, one person had a whale, which I thought was, some people had trees and it was kind of all over the board. And some of them were whimsical, like somebody said, oh, I have one that looks like Tinkerbell or one that looks like that boy that's got his thumb in the, in the dike, you know, holding back the water.  And then they would also work with them to define what their soul's mission is going to be. So that's where the contract is written with the Council of Elders help and their assistance.  And then members of your soul family.   This is the role that I'm gonna play in your life so that I can help you.  Other times they're just very supportive and loving. So if you remember that these souls came into your life out of love for your soul to help your soul grow, then forgiveness, if they do something to you that's hurtful is a lot easier because I've had to work through that as well. So it's an interesting process, you know, but it's all encompassing and it answers almost every question you could possibly have.  What is that recognition that takes place? How would we determine that?  You've heard that before. I think that's a Shakespeare statement. You could feel a person out.  You have to remember too that we change sexes. So you could be female in this life but you could have been male in the previous life or vice versa.  But there's something about them, if you zero in on it, just the essence of who they are, they have a familiarity about them. You know, I think people go through their whole life a lot of thinking about any of this, you know? And so, but I've always thought to me, this is normal to thinking about, you know, do I know you? I sense that I know you or I don't know you. I don't think you necessarily have to know because you've had, you've got hundreds of souls, you know, in your soul family. They don't all come in with you at the same time. That's why in this process that we do together, I asked them who's stepping forward and saying, I'm gonna volunteer and come in with you. And this is why I'm gonna come in with you.  Really? I mean, it sounds bizarre. I mean, it's just funny that you would say that of all the issues, because that has been the core wound I had to deal with.  Now this is gonna show up to make sure you got it. So it's funny you would bring up abandonment because there is no doubt that I had some pretty brave souls. And I was brave too to say, I'm gonna take that on. Yeah. Not pleasant. No, no. But, you know, some lifetimes aren't pleasant though. Some lifetimes, you know, if you go into a past life thinking, oh, I'm gonna have this terrible trauma I'm gonna have to deal with, you don't necessarily, karma is not bad. Right. And I also wanna say like just because, you know, my childhood was predicated. There was a lot of neglect and abandonment, but I still feel like I have an amazing life. Like I'm so grateful I got through. I'm so grateful. The contrary choices I've made about who I've become. Yeah. And I, you know, I love my life and I love who's in my life and I love the potency that I feel like I am. And even the fact sort of concurrently with the abandonment, fascinating enough as a little creature, I was always fascinated by the things you're talking about. So even as a little girl, we get like tarot books and astrology books. I kind of feel like it saved me, you know, to have a higher understanding of things. Yeah. And our childhood has, there are a lot of clues to past lives in our childhood. And if you start to look at different aspects of your childhood, you could put together a fairly comprehensive puzzle, you know, what costume did you always want to wear a Halloween? What books did you go and pick out at the library? What games did you like to play? You know, did your parents take you on trips and did certain locations speak to you? I always loved the 18th century for me. And that's where these memory triggers come in by the way, which I mentioned at the end of the book. So the memory triggers are, you get those before you come in. And they're like deja vu experiences. So they're implanted in you. So when something comes up, when you have one of those feelings, it's intended to remind you of that past life or of the people in that life with you. So when I was a child, I loved anything to do with 18th century American history. And I would wear my hair and ringlets and I would write with a feather pen and I would listen to Baroque music. I was a very, very strange child because I grew up in a South Side of Chicago, blue collar neighborhood, people did not do those sort of things. So I was just kind of on my own with that. Dolly Madison, Abigail Adams, those are my heroes. And then when I got into college, I majored in what else, history. And I had a professor call me in once and he said, you have the most uncanny feel for the 18th century of any student I've ever had. And I thought, you know, I do, but I didn't know why at the time. Well, I made a lot of sense later on, you know, when I found out that I in fact had this 18th century life. So a lot of the essays that I was writing were based more on memory than they were on listening to his lecture. So I still love history. And I think that being a past life researcher and therapist has kept me connected to that aspect of myself that loves history. And I think other people, you could find that in anyone's life. Yeah, for sure. I know what you're saying. I felt that before I took a trip to Italy, I was actually obsessed with just the idea of Italy. And when I went, it did not disappoint. And in fact, not only that, but after almost three weeks there, and what an extraordinary trip that was for my soul, I still to this day, I could have a house there and be very, very happy. There was this incredible resonance with that country and those people. And I love the language. And when I brought it up, you know, it's funny you talked about COVID and some of the things we're doing. I've been doing so much in my life before COVID that there wasn't very much to add. I will say one of the things that's come up for me that's awesome. I used to be a professional actress and singer. When I got into radio 13 years ago, I released the singing. I had to tell the band I was with and the jazz band and the big band, I have to make priorities. And it's not that I don't love singing, but for today it's, this is the path, it's books and radio. And it popped for me in the last three months, like, oh, my voice, hmm. So I started singing and I began doing that again and it's been amazing. And I will say like with Italy and things like that, I've said to people if there's one language I would learn, it's Italian and people like, you live in California, like, why would you do that? Why would you not learn Spanish? Spanish makes more sense. It's true. It's a thousand percent more logical and much easier to travel the world. But man, I love to speak Italian. I have to say probably again. I grew up in a, I'm a hundred percent Sicilian. So I grew up in, my parents were born in this country, but when they didn't want my brother and I understand what they were saying, they would talk in Italian to each other. But they would not allow us to learn, which I really regret. But that's how I stumbled onto the soul writing because one day I got really disgusted. I thought, gee, this is a right that you're talking Italian and not sharing that with us. So I remember going into the bathroom and sitting under the sink with a pen and a paper. And I asked, I prayed, good Catholic girl that I was. I said, Jesus, can you please give me a code that I can have, that I can write things and leave them around the house and mom won't know what they are because she won't be able to read them. And then maybe she'll know what it feels like. You know, so I got a code. I had this code down. And so I did that and my mother didn't care. So I forgot about it. But then 20 something years later, I'm in a calligraphy class and the teacher is talking about the history of calligraphy of handwriting, not calligraphy of handwriting. And she pulls down a chart and there is my code. And I looked at it and I thought, what is that? And it was the Phoenician alphabet. So somehow as a child, you know, when I talk about soul writing, it's like ask anything you want, you're gonna get it, right? So this little child was asking Jesus, send me this code. Hello, I'm ready. And these letters for the Phoenician alphabet. And so there it sort of tied it into the whole idea of getting past life information through the soul writing as well. So yeah, that's how I started to do it. I didn't realize I was doing it. I just stumbled on it like that. So yeah, I would love to go to, I've never been to Italy. I would love, it's on my bucket list. But places that you resonate to are a sign of a past life. I grew up in Chicago, South side of Chicago. And I never felt like that was home. I kept thinking, who are you people and why am I here?  I remember flowers and here I am in this little South side neighborhood and I hated it there. I absolutely did. But I didn't know where I belonged until I graduated from college. And I decided to go to all those places that my professor said I had this uncanny feel for. So I started in Virginia and worked my way up to Boston. When I got to Virginia, it was all over. I mean, my soul felt this sigh of relief like I'm home. And it took me 25 years to get here permanently, but here I am now. So yeah, that's one of the things I tell people, pay attention to the places that you long to go to that are when you're there, you have these deja vu feelings. Like, you know, some of the historic homes that I visited here in Virginia, I already knew where everything was or what. So, you know, there's a sense of home. There's a sense of belonging. And you know, when you can tie it together like that. So that is one of the many clues. I also teach us a resonance method of past life recall. That's for people who don't, who are a little concerned about using hypnosis. And with that, you can just make a list of all the things in your life that you resonate to, the cultures, the languages, the foods, religions. There's a long list, but there's so many ways of accessing past life information. I think the one-on-one in a regression is the best because you've got somebody guiding you and helping you along, but there's other ways besides that. Yeah. Oh, that's, I thank you for sharing that story. That's so incredible. And I know what you're saying.  And, you know, he loves Persian music and Armenian music and eats the food all the time. And he makes like, he makes exquisite homeless and other things. And then here I am, I was raised Jewish, although I don't claim that. I really just claim spirituality today, but I'm in Italy and I'm walking around and I see these churches so many hundreds of years old and I walk in them thinking, I'm just gonna walk in and take a look and something profound happened to me. And I was on my knees praying and going, who is this? What's, like, and I stayed there easily just by myself. No one else was there in these ancient, ancient churches for hours. It was like I needed this. And I stayed once in this city called Assisi, which is beautiful, beautiful. At the very top, right before the mountains began in Assisi, I had such an awesome hotel room. And I remember sitting on the bed and looking up and there was a picture in the room of St. Francis of Assisi. And again, I'm like, I know this person, I know this experience, I know this town, I know this, like, and I was sitting there going, what is going on with me? Because I hadn't felt any of these things before. But there is, I'm quite sure it's been many, many, many Italian lifetimes. Yeah, and I feel like even the face, right? The façade. Like, what is this? It's so funny in this life that I would have, I think a very Italian looking face. And nobody in my family, certainly. If anything, it's like Russian, Polish, Austrian, you know, sort of everywhere else. So this stuff is very fascinating. I like how you put that, but you know, look at your proclivities, look at what you're drawn to and compelled and fascinated by. And so that leads me, Joanne, to ask you about the body, because that's kind of like, hmm.  Was that so important that we decided that? Well, again, it wasn't random.  We all have layers of male and female. So remember I had said that you're not always female in the lifetime you have had male lifetimes and vice versa. But 75% of the time you are the same sex. So if you lean toward being feminine, being female, then you'll find most of your lifetimes were like that. Which is interesting because when I do a regression on somebody, the women do not have any problem if a male lifetime comes up, they are fine with it. The men fight, I don't wanna be a woman, I don't wanna be in this body. And I know why, because they're not used to feeling so, they feel powerless, you know, they feel weaker, physically weaker now, you know. So yeah, so Edgar Casey said that gender is based on what you wanna accomplish. So a lot of the people in my study who are female in this life, they said they wanted to become female because they wanted to feel, they wanted to give birth. They wanted to have that experience of childbirth. They wanted to be more nurturing. You select a body for its challenges too.  The reason I mentioned earlier about picking your parents is because when you select those two souls as your parents, you know ahead of time what is gonna be the socioeconomic environment that you're gonna be born into. Okay, so you know already like, oh, if I pick those two people, I'm gonna be in India or I'm gonna be in Italy or whatever, you know. So, you know, a lot of the people in my study picked a body that was like the body they had in their past life because they really liked it and they wanted to do that again. Others, women who were exceptionally beautiful in a previous life often would pick a planer body in this life because they perceived that that beauty had gotten them into trouble somehow or that it had blocked them or they were taken seriously or whatever, it depends on the time period that we're talking about. So, and they're almost never genetically lined up with our biological family from, in other words, we don't reincarnate in our biological family. Now there are some cultures that'll say that, oh, I recognize that child recognizes his grandfather or that woman was my wife. They'll say that as Dr. Ian Stevenson who worked here in Charlottesville at the University of Virginia had done a lot of studies with children and that's what he found. Most all of Edgar Cayce and I know that Dr. Newton and others have said that we don't necessarily, reincarnate in our same biological family. So the next lifetime you're gonna have, you may not be a direct descendant of who you are now. The people in your family may be with you again in different roles, but they may not be genetically related to you. So all these people are fascinated with getting these DNA tests now, right? Yes, yes. They wanna do their genealogical studies, but I say you've gotta do a lot more than swap your cheek to find your soul's identity, believe me. I fully agree with you, boy. Especially when you take into account other universes and things, that to me is also a big fascination with other lives. So yeah, that's way deeper than a swab. And so tell me, first of all, how can people find you? How can they work with you or how can they find out more about you? Please visit my website. It was just revamped and I'm really proud of it. It's joanndemange.com. It's J-O-A-N-N-E-D-I-M-A-G-G-I-O.com. It lists all of the different types of regressions that I do, because I'll do the traditional past life regression, but you can also do one with soul writing. I've got one that's specific for physical karma. So if you've got a chronic condition and you don't know the source of it, you've maybe exhausted traditional medicine, you can have a physical karma session and then the life between live session. And if you also want to learn how to do the soul writing, you could book that as well. So all the details on what's covered in each session, I do them all on Zoom. And you can book it right on my website. There's a calendar there. And then all of my books are on, they're listed on the website, but they're also through Amazon. Beautiful. And this is Dare to Dream, Joann. What are you next, Dare to Dream? What are your future dreams and goals? Oh, gosh. I think I would like to open people's hearts and minds to the understanding that we're all one and that the soul doesn't die. It just continues. And to make it more of a household understanding, the percentage of people who believe in reincarnation in the West is very low compared to the Eastern part of the world. So, but mostly I just really want to be in service to people to help them understand better their soul's journey and just kind of assist them on the way. And so I plug away at it every day and hope that, and I know that it's made a difference in a lot of people's lives. So I just want to continue to do that and praying that God gives me the time to do. The creation universe gives me the time to get all those goals accomplished. Well, I look forward to your next book and I have to say this whole Phoenician thing is still in my brain. Like pretty amazing what poured through you with zero blocks or obstacles as a child. Very, very, very fascinating. So thank you for coming on and creating way more illumination around the subject. Again, her book, if you want to go to YouTube to watch us do this interview, youtube.com slash Debbie Daschinger. Thank you always for subscribing and for leaving your comments. I do read all of them and I write back to most of you by the way. So thank you. I love reading what you have to say and how the shows impact you. And I end today's show with this quote from Dr. Bruce Goldberg. My hope is that you keep your mind open. It is not hypnotherapists who heal. It is you who have the ultimate responsibility, past life regression and progression into future lives allow you to expand and explore your awareness and eliminate fear, anxiety, depression and other negative tendencies as well as the fear of death. Hypnotherapy is neither magic nor a panacea. It is a way to help shape the future. By creating your own reality with the knowledge from your subconscious and super conscious minds you can positively affect your present and future lives. Subscribe to the Dare to Dream podcast to hear this number one weekly transformation conversation. My guest next week is Dr. Gabriel Cousins. He's a bestselling author, holistic physician, homeopath, psychiatrist, family therapist, are you Vedic practitioner and a Chinese herbalist? He is considered to be one of the leading live food vegan medical doctors, holistic physicians and the world expert on spiritual nutrition. And he also is going to be discussing a cure for diabetes. You'll absolutely want to tune in. And I thank you as always for daring to dream and daring to create all your dreams into your reality.


So, in January this year, I traveled in Orissa, which is in East India, and Orissa is known for having a very rich collection of temples from different eras, and the, okay, and these, did I get that? Okay. And there are deities and rakshasas, demons, and animals, all in very colorful poses, and with excellent posture. Now tribal, Orissa is also known for being, having a great deal of tribal culture intact. The hinterland is quite inaccessible. You don't see many tourists there. And so, the tribal people, there are 62 registered tribes, these are the bondas, they're one of the oldest known tribes in Orissa, and they're still wearing their traditional garb. This is the only tribe where the women cut their hair short, and it has a really cool story that goes with it. But you see their traditional jewelry and the beads, they don't wear shirts at all, they just have a draped cloth, and you can visit almost any day of the week, within 100 miles, there'll be some market going, and this is a place where the villagers and the tribal people come, and they sell fruits and vegetables, and you see a lot of squatting, more about that later. You can identify the more traditional tribal people, because they don't wear the traditional choli, the short, sleeved, short, waisted shirt that is part of modern, kind of modern Indian garb. But you can see they don't have, you'll see people who don't have those shirts, and you can identify people from different tribes, often by their jewelry, how many nose rings, the placement of the nose rings, three or two, the earrings, the jewelry around the neck. And so I took to visiting these markets every day, sometimes on very rickety roads, but you can see that there isn't a tourist around. And by doing some very basic human interaction things, people were comfortable with me, and I was able to sit and talk and share bananas and ask stories. Now, unfortunately, though I speak Hindi and Marathi since I grew up in India, and my father's Indian, those languages don't carry very far in Orissa, and the next time I go, which I'm planning will be soon, I will have a translator who speaks Aurya, and maybe some of the tribal languages. So here I am sitting, and after a while I can photograph and film to my heart's content. I choose an iPhone because it's less intrusive, it draws less attention. They have seen tourists, and you look like just another tourist, and with a big camera I find that it draws a lot of attention. I got to have closer connections with the tribal people who were working in the hotel where we stayed. There is a hotel, it's out in the middle of nowhere, and so she is sweeping the area. That's done daily. My husband, Brian, there in the background, you can see. You see how her shoulders are rested behind her. And that's a very common thing with ancestral populations, indigenous populations, arms are heavy, and it's quite common to rest them someplace, be it on the hips or the back or the pockets or the belt, or even in the front, though I discourage my students from doing it this way because it easily becomes this, but it is very natural to rest the arms someplace. And you can see how she's doing a small hip hinge, more about that later. So with these particular people, I even got to use my little, the new posture device, posture reading device that my company has been inventing over the last four years, and it is now very useful, both as a teaching tool and as a research tool. So these are placed on the back, and they give you a real-time read of the back shape. So I'll show you what that looks like. You see it here. So I have the device on my back, you can see. And it's giving me a real-time read of the shape of my back. And for research purposes with these people, it's really handy to record what sort of shape they actually have. For teaching purposes, we set ideals like I have set an ideal for myself a little earlier, and then it gives me a chance to work with my body to match that ideal. So you can imagine for students, after they've been placed on one placement, it's sometimes hard to recall where that was, and it gives them a chance to practice. And it also makes it very vivid why you want to do that, because when you arch your back, that's what happens on the inside. When you round your back, you're loading your desks and damaging them. And this is the reason. You don't want those kind of positions to be your baseline positions. Just a little detour for those of you who don't know my work. So what one of the, I think some of you, most of you, know that in the Galkley method we teach a J-spine rather than the conventional wisdom S-spine. So on the right, on the left, you see a picture from a modern anatomy book with the usual S-spine, you know, we're supposed to have curve in the lumbar spine. This is all in my book, and this lumbar curve here is the reason why all ergonomic chairs are designed with lumbar support, and your car seat has lumbar staff, and you're given lumbar rolls, because the thinking is that you're supposed to have a curve there. If you go back in time, as you can see from this illustration taken from an anatomy book published in 1911, there's not a lot of curve in the lumbar area. And I argue in multiple ways that that makes a heck of a lot more sense than does this. And so we, and I can, you know, this is what you find in populations that don't have back problems, that's one line of argument. This really reflects the average of the population today, and when you have an 85% incidence of back pain, you don't really want to copy the average. That's one line of argument. Second line is just anatomical. All these discs, the upper lumbar discs, are cylindrical, so it makes sense that they would have a cylindrical home, that's a good fit. The lowest disc in our spine, L5S1, is a wedge-shaped disc, and it makes sense that it would have a wedge-shaped house in the baseline. So when we're told to tuck our pelvises and stand up straight, we're actually doing damage, because that repeated, repeated wears the fibrous external layers of the disc and results in the kind of dysfunction we have in the discs. Also the bones, like if you keep jamming the edges of the bones, stressing them against each other, the result is arthritic change. And just because everybody has it, osteoarthritis, doesn't make it normal. And just because everybody has degenerated discs by the time they're 50, does not make it normal. And just because everybody has back pain, just about everyone, does not make it normal. So we want to go back to an earlier time when a better description of normal is available. So that's the broad brush, and I actually have an MRI of my spine from 1987. This was a less happy time where I had a huge L5S1 herniation. This is not fun. This is, I speak in your butt, can't do a thing, can't carry your baby, can't even carry a cooking pot, your mother-in-law has to come and bail you out, can't sleep at night for more than two hours without a huge amount of back spasm, and then you have to kind of walk and kind of work it out, and then you can go back to sleep.   Don't wish it on anybody. And in the end, because nothing was working, it was a huge herniation, I ended up with surgery. And then a year after that surgery, they wanted to do another surgery because I had re-herniated the same desk. But now, with my current wisdom, looking at that back, I'm saying, wait a minute, Esther, from 87, you are swaying your back quite a bit. And wearing the discs and so on. So if I take you back to my little app, exit here, technology works beautifully if you hit the right buttons. So I was, right now, you can see that I have a pretty nice J-spine, yes? But back then, this is what I was doing systematically. From my gymnastics days, from my yoga practice, I was very flexible. I used to be the model for all the visiting swamis. And I would do, in this particular group that my parents were involved with. And I would do back bends and grab my ankles and everyone would clap and sign up for the yoga classes. And I used to lie on my belly and put my feet on the floor. And no one realized that that's, I was not bending from the right place. There was a way to do that, but not the way I was doing it. And so I was just practicing like a lot of the gymnasts, female gymnasts, usually arching my back and it became a habitual sway, with short, tight muscles and a big problem. So that's what I was doing and, happily, I don't do that anymore. So let's go here. How does this work? So we've, so, you know, we teach people how to change the shape of their back. We actually, and we don't do it in the very, in the conventional ways of giving a whole bunch of exercises. But we do it by changing the, changing what they're doing in how they're doing their everyday life. You know? So the way you sit can change the length of your erector spinae muscles. And I can show that to somebody. Like, sitting has gotten a very, very bad name and I think it's much maligned. I agree that nobody should be sitting for eight hours straight like a lump on a log. That's no good.  But I actually think sitting is an excellent position. It's restful. It's, you can actually, there's studies showing you can have deeper, certain kinds of thought. Like my husband is a mathematician. I'm sure his theorems wouldn't be as good if he was never allowed to sit.  I think it's how you sit and what sort of support and furniture you use. It needs to be half decent and you need to change it up. You can't just sit. But if you just stand, that's also no good. There's lots of research showing that you have increased risk of varicose, hospitalization due to varicose veins, higher rates of atherosclerosis. Your fine motor skills are not as good. Standing is when you sit. Lots of things and people need rest as well. Yeah. So I think that all positions are good, done in moderation. And here's a biggie, done with good form.  And that bodes very, very differently for the discs, right? So if I'm standing like that, that's not a great way to stand. Yeah. If I jay it out, then I'm, I think it's a fine position. Yeah. But if I had to do that all day, if I had to, I want to be able to. But I don't want that to be the only, you know, I don't want to not be able to do it. Neither do I want to do that all the time. OK, so back to, I'm going to do it this way. And we are going to look at some of the studies that we've been doing. And you can see, OK, let's play good. So we've been conscientious in the last year and done surveys. We have a six-lesson course. And we've been serving people using a standardized questionnaire, the Roland Morris pain questionnaire, at the beginning of our courses, at the end of the six lessons, and then four weeks out. And I wasn't sure what would happen four weeks out. I was pretty sure that it's going to show improvement based on anecdotal evidence. You know, people rave. It's like, wow, got rid of 10 years of back problems here. Like, she's dying. She just did it with reading the book. That's unusual, by the way. Most people, when they read the book, it's like reading a book to play golf. Or you read a book to play the piano. Usually you need a coach. There are a few exceptions who can do it. But usually you need someone to say, no, no, no, no, a little more on the left. Or when you're doing this, I see your rib cage is flaring up or so on. But we were very gratified to find that people keep improving beyond the course. You know, a lot of these techniques that we teach. And maybe I'll use you as a volunteer if that's OK. So I'll show you how simple they are. We start very, very simple. So for example, when people sit, we teach them to get rid of their excessive sways. Or if they've been slumping all along, they need extra length. Or if, like with older people who have lost two or three or five inches somewhere along the way, melted into themselves, kind of they have an eye spine. So whether you have a C spine for slumping or an S spine from being told to sit up straight, stand up straight all the time, and you've internalized that to some degree.  You could use some length. That's always a starting point for us. It's like preparing the clay. You wanna remodel, prepare the clay first. Make it soft, don't leave it brittle and with discs kind of bulging and then you're gonna remodel and something could get pinched off. Not a good starting point. So we have a little implement here. Something I designed, which is a stretch sit cushion, could be a towel. Could be something simple in a pinch. It could be your shoe that you stick back there. Something that's sticky that you can hook to, okay. I used to pride myself in not having products but then people, my students would get annoyed. Like come on, it slips, it slides, design something. This was our first project. Now we even have a chair with this built in. So here, and I'm just gonna, because this chair is particularly badly designed, notice how it doesn't have room for your butt. You're supposed to not have a butt somehow. That's a lot of chairs. There's no place for your bum to go back. So using the back rest becomes unpleasant, yeah. So to make up for that, we're gonna bring this support out a bit.  So there's a little bit of a extra curve there and we're gonna take it out by curving forward and you're going to use your hands on the sides and while still curving forward, so it's the back that's lengthening, not the front. We're not interested in the front so much but the back, you can push the back, the top of you away from the butt. No, don't stick the chest out. See, this is the thing. Like beginners will, like we're so ingrained to think of this as good posture. It's hard to break people out of that habit and you actually wanna stay curved forward, yeah. And then gently push the back tall, that's it. You wanna climb the back, up against the back rest, hook yourself and now relax. See, and I know she succeeded because there's a pinch of skin above the point of contact. That means the skin is stretched, which stretches the flesh, which eases apart the vertebrae and then we like to finish with the little shoulder roll, which by the way is my favorite way to reposition the shoulders. You don't wanna pull back, it doesn't last and it's not healthy anyway and you certainly don't wanna do the sit up straight, stand up straight thing and now you just relax. You've done your due diligence, now your job is to do nothing.  You can all do that, just little forward, up, back, totally relax and now it stays as opposed to when you yank it back and you let go, it doesn't stay, right?  Comfy? You can stay or go or please yourself. So these, so it's a string of small techniques that are nuanced, increasingly nuanced, especially when it comes to walking and then you ask this Roland Morris pain question and asks all kinds of questions like, do you go slowly down the stairs? Does it take you a while to get going in the morning? Is your sleep disturbed by pain and so on? So because of the name of the book, I mean this could have been called, in fact the name of the book originally was this, remember when it didn't hurt, which I thought was so charming, right? Fits this theme, remember from your childhood, remember from your ancestors, remember from your genetic endowment and my distributor in there, infinite wisdom, said, do you want to sell books? Do you want to have a poetic title? And so it became, eight steps to a pain-free back and here's a tip for anyone who writes a book, you will notice that the subtitle is jammed, natural posture solutions for pain in the back neck, shoulder, hip, knee and foot. It could have been any of those. It's about restructuring the body, really. And so it's how to use your nuts and bolts in a wise way, in a natural way. So we do attract a lot of people with pain and we've gone in that vein and we have even had third party research done on the effectiveness of our methods so we're very, very proud of our ratings on this website, healthoutcome.org, this is a good one to know about. This guy ran into major trouble with his leg in the 70s and being a statistician he tried to look for solutions for information and couldn't find good information and then he succumbed to the insistence of his surgeon that oh, he would be like just get the surgery done, you'll be marathoning in two weeks. Well, what happened was that he couldn't bend his knee for six years, he couldn't drive in a car, he couldn't do all his usual things and he vowed that he would reach people better information than he had. And so he's done this and he puts little Facebook ads and he's got it down to a science that only costs him $3 per participant now because he's gotten good at converting. And so this is actually up, the number of reviews on lower back pain are now up at 75,000 above that. And interestingly, a lot of the conventional methods are at the bottom of the list. You know, and it's 5,000 ratings and like physical therapy gets 1.9 or something. And surgery looks really one point, that's at the bottom of the list, very bottom. So Stanford did a study on this and it was called, it's recently published, it's called crowd sourcing, is this the new face of medical research? And their findings were that all the ratings here coincide with what the randomized control trials show, but it's heck of a lot cheaper and they have huge numbers. And there are some unexpected discoveries like posture and for back pain. And here you can see Gokle-Meta, we're very proud of this. We're way head and shoulders above all the interventions for effectiveness and lower back pain. Okay, back to the village in Orissa. I was right next door to Pottery village and see how she's got her shoulders back while she's weight bearing. Look at the way he's using his wrists, unbroken wrists while working. These are lessons you wanna learn. This is putting the slip on the pots just before the Sunday baking. Whole village gathers all their pots. Look at the hip hinge, gorgeous. That's how the men carry there and that's how the women carry. And so they have to put all these pots together, they walk about two miles and then they sell them, unpack them in the marketplace to sell. And here you can see these women hip hinging and they stay there for a long time. They're checking their pots, bargaining. It's pretty cool.  This is not just one or two people, this is the way the professional benders in the world bend. And you wanna learn this and it's nuanced. They also squat, say something about that later, but look at those hip hinges and it is just beautiful. You know, they sell other things too. This is a Bonda woman with a huge wicker basket and they carry on their heads.  And then you wanna imagine you're carrying a heavy load and push up against it. And now you're using longest cola. And for me, my voice always drops when I do this which tells me I had some tension in my neck before I did this. So even after all these decades, it's hard to know what's going on in your neck. And this is a very primal carrying on your head. We've been doing this for millions of years. And so the moment you put weight there, all your little stabilizer muscles, they know what this is about. They kick in, they know their job and it sets things well. So I actually made a little cushion because it's easy when I do emails and things, I put it on my head and I push up. And then when I take it off, I still feel a trace of it. So it reminds me like right now I feel my nail on my head and it's still there in some sense. And then with time you can develop your muscle strength and carry heavier loads. People carry amazing amounts of loads and it's beautiful to watch the elegance and the function, high level of function that you see here. The way they carry their babies, there's a lot to learn here. See how there's a little lift in the back and the bum is allowed to settle. And she's settling the baby behind her midline as much as possible. Like certain, not in front because it's closer to the spine, less torque. Her shoulders are open, makes a lot of sense. And there are all kinds of lessons about this. I could go on for hours, the feet, they have a shape. And this is something like we walk around barefoot willy-nilly sometimes. And you really wanna accompany that with good weight-bearing wisdom and good gait because otherwise ligaments are not elastic tissue and you can overstretch ligaments and make your feet grow, grow, grow. Two sizes with pregnancy is typical. With barefoot, without knowing what you, if you're gonna stand like that, I don't think barefoot's a great idea, actually. Because then you're putting a lot of load in the ligaments, then you want the shoe to at least give you some support. But if you know what you're doing, then it's great. If your feet know what to do and they're due, look at the muscular strength there, right? This is another thing. Squatting, this is how the professional squatters do it. Notice that their back is really quite straight and they do this for hours. If you grew up going to the toilet, squatting, and eating cross-legged on the ground, and then you have this form. When you're born, this is not bone, this is cartilage. And if you grew up sitting on a Western-style toilet and eating at the dining table, I believe that the way this all ossifies is different from if you were doing this all along. I don't see many Westerners, modern Westerners, who can do this. It's usually this with a lot of load on the discs and then the feet pronate and that's hard on the ligaments in the foot. So my feeling is, B-squat, semi-squat, partial-squat, but full-squat is rarely available and forcing it does sometimes more harm than good. This is a lesson to me in, you know, you can say it's posture, it's so many things, but we are mimics, we copy each other and we've arranged our lives historically to watch each other. So everybody's in a row and it's like a dorm. We do it right in the dorms, you know, where you have a hallway and very accessible. Now the moment you start to have gated communities and it's way recessed there and somewhere back there, there's someone maybe, you lose that, you know, but the thing of being able to observe and bounce off each other in multiple ways is I think a very natural thing. You see it in their planning. There was a talk on a question about music, whether it's natural and missing and it's just so evident that this is part of their lives. Beautiful. I'm gonna end with the sound is missing, but check out their J-spines, all of them. See the pelvis antiverted, see that groin crease, see their shoulders. This is really enchanting and then when you see it we are missing the music, but that's okay. So that's something I think is really cool, important and missing in our culture. You know, their culture has suffered a lot. They are put to, they have deforested lands, they're put to work that is not natural, longer hours, heavier loads and things start to fall apart. But this is something that can help a culture stay intact and to me this picture says a lot.  She doesn't wear a choli. She is very old school, tribal. Her daughter is wearing something much more modern. She has slippers, but look what she's managed to pass on. Look at that sense of self, look at that stance, look at that carriage, it's gorgeous. She's a self-possessed young lady, a teenager at that. Yeah, and so it's not all and nothing and the pieces that we can conserve and preserve are priceless and you don't have to have pristine cultures to learn these things.  Thank you. Okay, I think we have time for one quick question. Can you come down over here? Yeah.  I haven't speak, I'm loud enough. I haven't followed you for a year, so I'm a fan. And I try to explain some of this to my clients and I laugh and queues all the traditional ones like how can you tell what your power is? You have a few hours or days. I wrote a book and that's just to learn in your own body the beginning. This we use as a textbook in our course. It's a six lesson course. I put a huge amount of effort into doing this well. So I train people to a very high level and it's not trivial. When people read the book and then come to our course they're usually shocked at how nuanced it is. And then when those people show up for teacher training they're once again shocked. And I'm talking about PTs and physicians and chiropractors, people who are very used to fitness trainers used to working with the body, but they come and they're whoa, this is really different and nuanced. So I don't know a shortcut to do what you're asking, I leave alone a shortcut to explain to other folks here how to do it in their body just like that. It's nuanced and once you've lost it it needs like you're here, you wanna go there and you need some help charting a healthy, safe trajectory because for example like sticking your bum back would be a really bad idea. Yeah, you can pinch discs and stuff. So come and learn. And then you will automatically change some things over time. Okay, thank you Esther. Very welcome.