debates and so forth would always bring up his knowledge and understanding of Hebrew and because he's not as knowledgeable in Greek then I should not bring up Greek. That is patently unfair. I'm going to use Greek because the words were given to us in Greek and so should I ignore that? The fact of the matter is if these words don't mean anything in Greek they don't mean anything in English and so the reason why I wanted to deal with John 1028 because if John 1028 is what I say it is and not just me but I appeal to other Greek scholars but I can do it on my own. I understand the Greek to that much degree to where I know that this is stating the rules of Greek state that an emphatic negation of a subjunctive means it eliminates even the possibility of any act in the future so nothing can cause this person to lose their salvation in the future according to Jesus. If that is the case and then if this other passage, whichever passage you go to says that you can lose your passage well then we have a contradiction. I looked at the excuse me I come in choked up but I looked at the debate just a little bit. I really hadn't even watched the debate. I really didn't although what I did see I saw someone else kind of cover it and I just listened to them just for a little bit. I didn't see the whole thing matter of fact I couldn't see the whole thing. I hadn't even watched the debate myself but I did go back and see one portion of it and this was well actually two portions of it. One the very beginning where and this is where I was wrong and so just right off the right off the out of the gate I need to admit that I was wrong. Well where was I wrong at? Not about one saved always saved absolutely not. Where I was wrong I decided to take on a debate in a format that that's just not me. I said before that I don't do formal debates. Matter of fact now even more so I love formal debates. Why? Because you don't get a chance to set your foundation it's bam bam answer respond and then you can't even kind of engage especially if you enter into a point that worthy of more discussion more fleshing out and so it's just not me now. It's my fault that I did not understand the rules of the debate like I should have and so I think if I'm correct I think four or five times I apologize. Number three I'm a little surprised by references to all the verses he's going to bring up. Those are supposed to be done at the outset so that I can then rebut them in the time rebuttal or raise them in cross-examination so I hope no new material is going to be raised for the rest of the debate because we're supposed to be debating what we presented in our opening statements and there are minutes forfeited so just trying to have an ethical honest debate here. I've been I've told people in the past before that I do I don't do formal debates because I'm not formal and so you have to I have to ask your apologies Dr. Brown if I bring in scriptures that I did not submit earlier without saying anything about earlier but I trust the fact that you have been so learned that none of these would bother you. None of these issues should have or me bringing up obviously not the not the the the correct etiquette and decorum again I should have familiarized myself even more so I knew the time frames but not knowing that you could bring up scriptures and so forth my fault. I kind of handled it I've talked to my wife I really handled it more like a court proceeding in the court proceeding you you're not going to necessarily bring up every issue in your opening statement that you're going to ultimately ultimately disclose. Now he didn't know what scriptures I was going to bring and I know what he was going to bring until I guess the the first five minutes so had I mentioned him five minutes earlier well then he would have been prepared if I'd have mentioned him five minutes earlier which to me that makes it that makes no sense but then again those are the rules and so I can't I'm not crying foul or anything like that so I was wrong in uh the whole understanding of the debate and not being prepared in that regard or not being familiar I live that being stated uh I've got a new a new attitude towards this issue of eternal security a new attitude towards dealing with one saved always save I'm going to be a little bit more aggressive I'm going to be a little bit more forceful I'm going to be a little bit more of what people I think need to hear and that is a truth and not be ashamed about it not being you know differential in some cases because you have to yeah CG I've got a new attitude I've got a new attitude as was the point of sisters that's what I'm because something that I did expect from Dr. Brown that I did not get from Dr. Brown and honestly truth be told I'm not getting it from anyone I'm just not getting this from anyone and so you all forgive me that we're going to be a little bit technical we're going to be a little bit nerdy but we're also going to be a little bit impassioned as well and so I want to deal with something that is a problem amongst people who read the bible who aren't really reading the bible uh people who are making a set was it pay to the bell are you sure you got me thrown off I thought it was a point I said I got a new attitude my point I'm all over the place now now you mess me up but whoever's saying it I've got that I've adopted that because you know you want to be you want to be what's the word you want to be nice you now I'm not saying I'm going to be rude that's not what I'm saying but we'll we'll just hit we'll just hit it straightforward okay so I was wrong twice on this video one about not knowing the the decorum and then also not knowing that paddle the bell saying this song okay I apologize apologize to you paddle the bell as well but she does have a nice sweet potato pie though I'll give her that but that being the case this is important this is important there's something that happens with people who make the make this particular stance that we can lose our salvation they do an awful lot of reading into it and then will accuse us of taking things out of context or not understanding the context I want to look at something I want to look at something uh matter of fact let me let's grady says he says that the problem Cory is that you were trying to keep Dr. Brown to that John Tex in Greek ignoring other passages that may add to the interpretation in English here's why I do so and this is not my problem this is the whole point it's the whole point of it all uh grady if what and I'm going to show it to you if what I'm stating in John 10 28 is true if it is true well then guess what if it's true and the other passages are also true do you know we have grady we have a contradiction in the scriptures if we have a contradiction in the scriptures then none of the Bible should be listened to not Matthew Mark Luke John not none of this none of these things should be listened to if we have a contradiction so my point is help me help me help me understand where I'm wrong if I think that if I think it's saying this well then and I'm wrong well then fine if I if I'm wrong about what I'm understanding well then show it to me show it to me the problem is I'm dealing with a doctor someone who's a PhD who doesn't mind mentioning that he has a PhD who doesn't mind mentioning his accolades which are fine he earned those but that's fine the point is if anybody that I've ever had a discussion with about this topic should be able to handle it it should have been him but he did not well go into that just a second but I want to show you something I'm not trying to make a technical argument I'm trying to make an actual grammatical argument you and I speak English there are rules to it if I say I'm just using this as example great if I say you are a big dumb idiot you would not take that kindly you wouldn't take it kindly because you would recognize that it's an insult because these words have meaning matter of fact how I said it if I said oh and your mama if I just did that you would be insulted and you should be but wait a second that's not what it means though but yet does words and how we use them that especially if we use them in the right set of rules they have meaning so we can't change it just because we're here in America and we or you or he or they don't understand what the original stated how Jesus acts how it left his lips how John wrote it down we can't ignore that we can't ignore that because what about someone who might actually read it in the actual language and they get a totally different understanding it's not supposed to be that someone who reads it in Greek gets a different understanding person who reads it in English and so it's imperative on us who don't read in the original language to figure out what the original was saying that's the whole point now I before I get to that point I want to show you something that Dr. Brown did that was just absolutely wrong see if you pick up on this the statement that's made in the Greek is I'm sure you're probably familiar with this with this double negation uh this emphatic negation of the subjunctive of the subjunctive the Ume Apalontai which means to never ever ever perish and of course as you would know that in using this this means that not only will they perish or the possibility is negated of them perishing but this this double negation also implies the possibility of a future event causing the parish is also negated do you interpret John 10 28 the Greek of John 10 28 to mean that a person can not or I mean that the person can in fact perish if so why would you do so now do you all understand what I'm asking him I'm asking him not about any other passages his complaint was that hey Cory you're bringing in these other passages and so forth and then even the moderators even Marlon said hey Cory ask him a direct question or when I ask him direct questions specifically this I state on this because it's important I never once got him to respond give an answer to this not once now he spoke around it and gave what he thought matter of fact you're going to see him introduce something that is not even in the text so that being the case when I asked him this question I am referring to a specific understanding in Greek it's not even a difficult rule it's not even a difficult rule it's it's it's a it's a it's a commonly understood rule that goes to Greek just like there's certain rules that deal with English we understand even just a regular simple sentence structure where there is a subject there is a verb there's we understand even in the order that we put it in so if I say that I I slapped John well no one can come back and say well why did John slap Cory no I slapped John but yeah but John slapped Cory well no the words have meaning the order the verb and so forth they have meaning same thing in Greek same thing in any other language that's just the rules guys you don't get you don't have the right to ignore the rules even if you don't understand it you cannot ignore the rule because hey I don't understand it and so therefore it's not important hey I speak English so what no one at the cross no one in John's day no one in Matthew's day no one in Paul's day no one in Jesus day actually spoke Greek so that I mean he spoke English so that being the case we've got to listen to the rules because John 1027 identifies the sheep as those who are an ongoing way listen to his voice and follow him so you can be a sheep and then you can cease to be a sheep those who are his sheep and this is a constant theme you know same in John 6 37 to 44 speaking of those who continue in the faith those who persevere in the faith as we saw in Colossians 1 that that you who who have been reconciled and forgiven through the blood of Jesus you will be presented holding blame this if you continue in the faith so those who live as sheep those who continue to follow him absolutely we will now know I don't know if you if you're catching what he's saying I don't know if you're catching what he's saying but what he's saying what he's doing is typical this is typical we're gonna go look at it again but notice what he's doing I'll finish playing this particular portion and see I don't know if you guys caught on what he just did you'll never perish you will absolutely keep us we can walk away the word is constantly telling us we can walk away so those who are his sheep meaning walking in ongoing obedience and fellowship with him yeah you're safe you're good you got nothing to worry about nothing to sing twice about you'll never perish so a couple things one Dr. Brown before I get to the main point that Dr. Brown also impugned me for saying that I'm confident in my being saved are you saved are you yes I believe without a shadow of doubt that I'm going to have it without a shadow of doubt well he impugned me for having that kind of confidence but that but listen to what he just said so I have nothing to worry about unless you're courting he didn't have anything to worry about but I do but that's not my my my greater point my greater point was that he added a condition that is not in the text so what I want to do is I want to where I want to go to you know what let's do it over here on on this passage on this on this screen uh let's just look at what it says let's let's just start in verse 27 he says my sheep now someone help me especially those who understand by the way by the way uh layman's seminary send me your you mentioned you sent me an email send it to me uh again I didn't get it send me email I want to see you I you and I can have a conversation but he says my sheep hear my voice now what I want you all to look for tell me where is the condition if you keep hearing my voice if you keep following me then you'll never perish find the condition oh by the way in Greek there are some words that help us to understand if this next phrase if this next clause is conditional perfect example is John 3 16 John 3 16 says that uh that this is how God loves loves the world how he shows his world that he gave his only begotten son there's this word that's used there henna sometimes you also see the the Greek word hot tea which is because but henna which is this clause to tell us why he gave his only begotten son henna in order that the believing ones in him will not perish so Aaron says the condition is to follow here's the problem that people make with this the problem that people make with this is that that's not what Jesus is saying in all matter of fact I'm going to prove in just a second that Jesus is not bringing in that you have to be in this condition to be a sheep it's not what he's saying I'm going to show you that in just a second and you have to make what you just said fit not just you but others he's not giving um he's not telling us what you have to do to become a sheep he's telling us what sheep are what a sheep is that's what he's doing so let's go back to the passage let's just read it you tell me in verse 27 or 28 you certainly can't make this argument in any of the previous passages of John 10 but just tell me in chapter chapter 10 verse 27 28 where this condition is I'll give you all day I'll give you all week I'll give you all year it's that important show me where the condition is then I'll I'll go with you so let's see says my sheep hear my voice now what is it saying the sheep of mine the voice of moon moon that's my this is saying that they are hearing now we're going to prove that he's demonstrating that this is what sheep do even more so he says and I know them and they follow me same thing and they are following me akalu fe usin same word same same same tense that they are following now here is the question here is the question where so far does it say that a sheep uh in order to be a sheep you must do this we don't have that anywhere we're in order to be a sheep you must do this now about these sheep he makes a statement the statement that he makes is and I give them so by the way following we have this kago which is the end of that passage verse 27 doesn't mean the thought is completed he's continuing we added the verses to give us a better understanding but here he's saying of these sheep they follow me they hear me and I give them eternal life uh so really if you want to make this descriptive I think you should these sheep do what what what can what do we know about sheep now the question might come up when does a person become a sheep that could be it now Aaron asks his question wonderful question Aaron asks let's go back to it he says Cory it does say a sheep will follow would it be reasonable to say if one isn't following Jesus isn't a sheep two things about that one that's absolutely correct if a person isn't following Jesus they aren't a sheep that's the whole point guys as I said in the beginning what tends up tends to happen is we take a description of a person who's not following who is not a christian and make that out to be a person who is a christian but fell away no he's saying that this is what my sheep do so we know a few things about sheep uh matter of fact even more so Aaron uh we're going to look at what what my entire point was on this John 10 28 and there's a reason why I why I stay with this particular passage so much and it's not just this passage by the way but so he says uh what we know about sheep are one sheep follow him not just sheep but his sheep the sheep that belong to Jesus they follow him one two the sheep that the sheep that uh follow him or or his sheep the sheep that are his he says that they hear him they hear and they follow I don't think I don't think we can take away from that from from what we're reading here I don't think there should be any different different disagreement from what we're saying here next of those sheep that are his he says I give them life into the ages I give them life so the sheep that are his Jesus says I give them life into the ages I'm I I'm giving them life into the ages now we can find other passages to help us even also determine when does a person who's believing a sheep when do they actually get that life according to John 6 47 he says truly truly I say to you that whoever is believing if a person is believing then he says present tense they have it right now life into the ages show me other passages that will agree I will but here's the point though Grady and this is what I think you guys you guys miss this you miss it and it's amazing you miss it I think because you want to miss it you want to I'm not I don't care what you I told you guys about the conference I had about a dear Christian brother who said I don't care what you show me I'm not gonna believe you okay let me ask you let me ask you a question Grady or anyone else suppose suppose you lived during the first century or the founding of the church suppose you lived at that time and all you had was John's writing matter of fact somebody might even say hey listen that'd be if I if I could only get one letter Matthew's letter marks Luke's John's whatever Paul in the applause which would I rather have some some will say John so if all you had if all you had was just John's writing would that be enough so let me ask you guys a question in the chats I just want to know if all you had at the first century was John's writing is that enough is that is that enough matter of fact if you had John's writing but someone over in I don't know Corinth only had one letter or someone over here in Asia Minor or someone in Northern Africa or Eastern Africa if all they had if they if they only had a different letter my question is Grady pay attention my question is if all I had was John but you had another letter would those letters contradict would they contradict because by the way guys need to understand in the first century very few people had the entire the entirety of the canon very few did so whatever you had obviously especially as it pertains to the Gospels and going forward obviously it would be enough I don't know if anyone that would say that what I had would not be enough yeah I got John but I need more I need to hear what Paul is some folks didn't know of a Paul so if I had was the letters of the Romans but I didn't have John is my letter is Paul's letters of the Romans that good enough sure it is sure it is again guys remember everybody did you think that because you have the entire the entirety of the Bible laid out that that's enough they didn't have that so whatever they got was still sufficient that's how important that's how powerful God's word is now we can get at it we can have more depth to the scriptures at it as we see more scriptures obviously we want we want all of it but what if you don't have all what if you were in a prison in China all you've got is John or all you have is a book of Matthew or all you have is the book of 1st Corinthians all right because guess what guys there are even places today that don't have the entirety of it but if we can get it that's fine I'm not and we don't reject it what I'm saying is if I discover a truth that's given to us in John it would not contradict I would think any other parts of the book so deal with this passage and I do know this although I'm not fully abreast on all the rules of debate I do know this if I ask you a question deal with that question don't take my question and then go over here with it which he never did so now let's go back to it to the passage I so we sheep here sheep follow sheep he says he gives them life into the ages this word here I give them I give them to them life into the ages I give and what kind of life it's an adjective so it is it is eternal so I'm giving them life forever are you guys with me I give them life into the ages so that's the fourth the fourth thing that he says I'm sorry the third thing he says in the in the in verse 27 28 there's more than he says also like he also says earlier that they won't listen to any other voice he says that they will run away now Grady says and this is the point Grady I wish Grady would listen I wish Grady Grady let me ask question how familiar are you are you with Greek now am I a Greek grammarian no am I a scholar no do I understand it yes Greek will depend on a person's understanding but there are other volumes of scripture that will test if your ex Jesus consists or not uh Grady pay attention again you have nothing but an interest of just saying what you think listen for a second and then come back with a response it's better to hear the matter and then answer it rather than giving an answer before you hear it or know it would you agree sure because God said so now that being the case again my new attitude that being the case so sheep obviously we've already read previously that sheep won't ever hear someone else's voice we also hear we also know that sheep if they hear a stranger's voice what will they do foul they will run away if the sheep is hearing another voice then what did Jesus just say about the sheep what no Jesus you are incorrect Jesus because sometimes sheep will hear another voice Jesus Jesus sometimes sheep will hear another voice and follow that other voice some Jesus you're wrong you're wrong I know what my cousin was saved for 10 years and started listening to some atheist voice I know for a fact you're wrong Jesus because of my experience matter of fact Jesus I was saved in 1972 and from 82 to 2002 I was hearing all kinds of other voices yeah I became a heap riser like and I'm white I became a a Muslim I became Jewish I became all I heard all different voices so Jesus you're wrong you're wrong Jesus stop with that mess Jesus you're wrong you don't know what you're talking about Jesus he says my sheep hear my voice another voice a strength they won't listen to and even more so he says not only will they not listen to they will run away what about that is difficult somebody get Dr. Brown on the phone so we get so he and I just have a conversation because what Dr. Brown will do is he he's quick to matter of fact he did a couple times in the debate to bring up Hebrew and bring up other things but that's fine that's fine his lack of understanding of Greek means that I can't understand it go get another scholar which will bring that up but so verse 27 28 we know we know a couple things apart from sheep not hearing their voice we know that they hear they follow that's what she'd do three he says in verse 28 I that's God Jesus gives them eternal life the fourth thing that he says the fourth thing that he says he says that they will never perish never ever and we're gonna get back to that that that calls be in a second the fifth thing he says neither will anyone snatch them out of my hand now let's just go to verse 29 because it's also important he brings up something else important about sheep which we don't talk about enough but verse 29 what's the sixth thing that he tells us about sheep he says my father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of my father's hand so what does he say the sixth thing is that these sheep that belong to Jesus God gave us to him I think part of the foolishness that we have as Christians that we look at it from our standpoint because I feel a certain way that means it's important know what did God say God is clear the Bible is clear that God gives like the father gives to the to the bride groom the bride God gives us sheep us bride the bride a sheep he gives us to the son which is why Jesus said that I will never lose any of them no he didn't and so that's the point that's that's that's really the greater look at look if we look at things from his standpoint could you imagine could you imagine Jesus looking around we're in the world did I father I don't know what I did with those sheep you gave them to me I knew I would never lose in I was told that as a matter of fact I was so secure that I would never ever ever lose any of these sheep that you gave to me that I put in a book I made that statement I Jesus made the statement that I will never lose any of what you gave to me but I did I'm sorry wouldn't let's think about that for a second Jesus literally misplay some sheep or let some sheep go away or some sheep won it off and he's the great shepherd because what did Jesus just talk about in John 10 Jesus just talked about how much he's not like a hireling Jesus ain't he's a good shepherd he's not like the other shepherds DJ DJ whatever I'm sorry let me just deal with you this way I'll bring you back later God gives the believer he is the shepherd of these that he has given to Jesus he is the shepherd he talks about earlier in John 10 that these shepherds matter of fact I tell you what I'll bring you back to DJ because if you actually watch the show the station channel you'll realize I deal with a lot of passages dealing with salvation but again I made a statement before that this passage seems to be undefeated guess what left undefeated that night that same passage same passage because he never dealt with it now I thought he could be goofy and say doesn't apply I thought but he did he just but Jesus if he sees a sheep leaving this very same Jesus who said that he would go and bring back that one left he sees a Jesus I mean he sees a sheep walking away and him being the good shepherd says so him being the good shepherd says I don't care him being the good not a hireling but him being the good shepherd doesn't do anything for that sheep that he sees wandering away that God gave did the sheep leave without him seeing it which would impugn the fact that he is God huh this she this shepherd who has got himself sees all knows all sees a sheep leaving well no wait a minute Cory there was just too many sheep leaving and so he didn't have time to go after all of these different sheep think about that for a second think about the accusation not about us think about the accusation that we unintentionally hurl at God when we say that he can't keep the ones that he said he's going to keep that he lied when he says that he won't lose any when he lied he was been hypocrite the hireling when they see the wolf come will just leave when they see a sheep being snatched away they'll leave and then what we say now is so would Jesus but according to the text according to the text we see six things about being a sheep six things about being a sheep but let's just disregard it because there are these folks especially the charismatic but especially more and more so the charismatic by the way this will be the dominant thing the dominant understanding when it comes to Christianity or those that profess to be Christians the dominant thing going forward I can promise you guys the next 10 years 20 years 40 years 50 years more Christians are going to be believers that you can lose your salvation that God does not have a grip you make the the the assessment the belief that you're holding on you with your desire to want to go sin the desire to want to go fornicate the desire to want to do all these different things you make the distinction the statement that is you actually holding on okay God God has never trusted you God has never trusted you so again if you can refute this passage if it's only if it's only one passage that I run to if all I ever do was run to one passes well dog on it refute it then do like how God told Joe be a man step up and refute it now I don't expect some some some folks who don't understand Greek too I don't I really don't but I expected the great doctor but he puts a condition in there his condition was if if if you do these things show me in here where the where the condition is show me the condition show me in John 10 27 28 29 there's a condition by the way how do we know he's not saying if you continue doing these if you keep following if you keep hearing how do we know remember Jesus isn't just saying this Jesus is having a conversation is he not who is he having a conversation with well who he's having a conversation with are people who are not his sheep how do I know what he says uh Jesus hasn't said to them I told you and you do not believe the works that I do in my father's name these testify of me look what Jesus says he says but you do not believe because you are not my sheep why wouldn't Jesus just simply say you don't believe but you can believe you can if you start believing you become my sheep why didn't Jesus give Jesus didn't give him the gospel what's up Jesus you could have just told them that if you believe you'll be my sheep by the way by the way by the way in English or Greek Jesus never never once mentions sheep with the word if that doesn't doesn't show up doesn't show now he impunes them with if uh the Jews no I'm sorry the Jews ask him that if you are they do but Jesus doesn't well if you believe you'll be my sheep if you follow me you'll be my sheep wait a minute Cory though are you saying that if a person is a sheep he can go and do what he wants to do live how he wants to and it doesn't matter it's not what I'm saying at all it's not what I'm saying at all as a matter of fact if a person is not following I think Aaron I think it was Aaron that asked the question which I said was a good question just like Aaron asked if a person is not following I mean living a life that way if a person is listening to other voices if a person is following after other gods if a person is following after it themselves which is a god to the overall if if they're doing that what are you not it's like me saying that yeah I can I'm a piano player well here's a piano Cory play the piano I can't but I'm a piano player well no piano players can do what play the piano I'm a chef well what is it chef tell me what a chef is tell me what a chef is then by natural naturally I can tell you what a chef is not I can't cook I can you know what I take that back I can boss I can make a mean hot link matter of fact I've gotten so good at making hot links and hot dogs I don't even need a pan of water nope microwave put that bad boy on well what I have to do is I have to put it on 50 and then just kind of watch it if it kind of bubbles up a little bit on that hot link it's ready it's ready I'm a chef right can't cook much but I'm a chef no implicit in knowing what a chef is is what a chef does now Jesus is telling us what a what a sheep is he is telling us what a sheep will good question Kevin Day says yes his sheep will believe but where does it say only his sheep will ever believe even temporarily temporarily that is a good that Kevin dear brother that is the I'm glad you asked a question that is the whole point of what I'm getting ready to get into that is the whole point what because someone asked before their sheep now but can they ever stop being sheep can they ever stop following can they ever stop well first of all implicit in what Jesus says that they will follow they will hear but this is the whole reason why I bring up John 1028 but it's not just John 1028 there's other passages as well that I bring up also but what I get here I want someone to deal with this and I have searched and searched and searched he brings up two names one one of those ends he brings up I know for a fact doesn't I didn't deal with John 1028 degree there's nothing I'm I'm ordering his book and so I'm gonna look it up and see if he in fact does deal with it there are people who are Greek scholars but aren't grammarians there's a difference I'm talking about the guys that actually that they're translate their own translation committees these are guys that understand textual criticism that can read the the manuscripts as scribble scrabbly as they look they can look at that and tell us what it's saying they take it when we look at when you look on the screen and you see the Greek written this way the Greek in the manuscripts that we have the exit manuscripts of one that are surviving that Greek doesn't look like that that Greek is not that nice looking you give me a Greek manuscript a real one it's gonna take me a minute Corey I gave you the manuscript it was just all of John one well so far on John one in the middle of verse one because it takes that it's a training to it and you'll hear me reference this gentleman right here not that he's the be order you know that not that everything that he says is as true and accurate that he's Jesus and no but there's a lot of people that listen to this guy like yeah and now those that disagree they have they have all of his writings armed with themselves to say this is why I disagree so we're gonna look into what he says about this and not just what he says about this particular rule but others that being said I want to go and get to I'm not discrediting Dr. Brown at all oh someone else is okay he says one of his well uh I will say this though great that does that you know listen hanging out with the Sid Ross of the world that that's a problem that that's that's a problem that's a problem but that being the case I won't go there so I want to get into this little back and forth that he and I had I'll try to speed it up but I want to I want to go into this but then the Greek of this and you find a scholar such as Dr. Stevens Dr. Mounds Dr. Fanning or Dr. Wallace and find and they will tell you that implicit in this double negation this emphatic negation of subjunctive means that the sheet cannot stop following the now why did I say that here's why I want to go ahead guys here's where the nerd alert comes in I'm gonna try to go quickly with this but I want you all to see this and oh by the way it's not just Dr. Wallace but let me just let me just pull Dr. Wallace and him I've I pulled this up before matter of fact let me make it a little bit bigger so I want you guys to see this I've covered this before is this big enough for you guys if you all want to read along we're not going to read the whole thing but this is out of this book and he this book is a bit burdensome it really is I gotta pull it this way this book is a bit burdensome it's a lot it's there are people that are even saying that you shouldn't even offer this book to seminary students in learning Greek because it's just too it's just too daunting it's too there's a lot 30-something examples of the genitives of how it can be used so even to the seminary students it's a lot but that being the case you could at least see his arguments and so I want to put it on here without you having to buy the book I'll just put them on on the stage on the on the screen this umatic I mean this emphatic negation is indicated by Ume plus the air subjunctive or less frequently Ume plus the future indicative I also made another mistake I'm gonna show you that in in Revelation 3 5 where I call it the subjunctive but it's not it's the second example it's actually the future indicative well what is without reading all this what is an emphatic negation what does it mean the Ume plus the subjunctive Ume is how you say no not never that's how you say that in Greek both of those words U and the May a subjunctive in this case an error subjunctive is a past tense verb that conveys potentiality that's what eras means past tense but then the subjunctive is which which by the way this is the English word as well it means probably might potential I might run I might I might might not could be could be not maybe maybe not that's what a subjunctive brings about so if it's talking about possibility then with a negation you negate you might not but if you double negate it if you give a double negation you foreclose the possibility so if there was a way to say that it is impossible if there's a way to say it's impossible to lose your salvation if there's a way to say it in the Greek this is exactly how you would say it guys matter of fact not this is how you would say this is saying that this is saying it is impossible that's what you would use how do I know here's a couple examples this has nothing to do with salvation but mark 3635 this particular passage Jesus says and he says to Peter uh y'all y'all recall this matter of fact let me put let me just go to the screen uh so so you so you guys can see it with me mark 3635 oops which passage was that hold on 2635 there is no mark 36 what I just do I did something wrong I did something wrong mark 2635 what what am I typing in wrong it's duh you goofball I keep saying mark is Matthew all right here it is so let's put on screen Peter said even if I have to die with you Peter is saying it's impossible for me to deny you that's what Peter is saying well well this is Peter Peter's all Peter's lying but what about when Jesus makes a statement in mark third that's why I kept having mark on my mind when when when mark when Jesus makes a statement in mark with what he says now you tell me if there's a possibility that's happening mark 13 look what Jesus says Jesus says heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away what Jesus says here he uses he uses the emphatic negation he says ooh and then may which is what we see in John 10 who made and then he says uh Paralusante which is yeah you're right layman he thought he was telling the truth Peter was sure he was telling truth I Peter said it's impossible well yeah you're Peter but when Jesus makes a statement Jesus says it is impossible uh Paralusante which is will never ever ever pass away Jesus makes a statement it is impossible for this to pass away I'm sorry my words I'm sorry my words pass away that's what Jesus says now we believe that as it relates to Jesus talking about his words never ever ever passing away that's literally what it said Jesus says it's impossible for my words to pass away if there's ever a way to say in Greek it's impossible here it is now there's something that goes along with that guys Grady and everyone else that would disagree with listen to this and if and if a person disagrees with it that's fine if you disagree with not what I'm saying but with Dr. Wallace is saying like I would ask another person with a PhD how would you disagree with this this emphatic negation he said this is the strongest way to negate something in the greek did you hear that this is the strongest way to negate something that's why I highlight the strongest way to negate something in the greek let me say it again this is the strongest way to negate something in the greek does anyone disagree with that does anyone out there in tv land or youtube land or facebook land or anyone else does anyone disagree does anyone think no Cory there's another way more more forceful way to negate something in Greek. Matter of fact or Cory this is not how you negate something in the Greek. Does anyone disagree with this statement? You can't. Now look what he says. One might think that the negative with the subjunctive could not be as strong as the negative with the indicative. However while OO plus indicative denies a certainty, look what he says. Look what he says. OO may plus a subjunctive denies a potentiality. In other words, denying the possibility. Is it possible for me to flap my hands and fly to the moon? I think so. So if someone want to put that in Greek you would use OO may and the subjunctive of me possibly flying to the moon by flapping my hands. Now look what he says though. The negative is not weaker rather the affirmation that is being negatived is less firm with the subjunctive. OO may look what he says rules out even the idea as being a possibility. Grady or anyone else are you following me? Please if you're not raise your hand and say hey I'm not following you. I don't get it. Now OO may is the most decisive way. Follow this passage. Tell me if you disagree. Is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future? Did you ever just say it? Grady? Anyone else? Dr. Brown. This negatives the possibility of it happening in the future. So now let's go back to air. By the way does anyone disagree? Does anyone disagree with what Dr. Wallace just said? Now it's not just Dr. Wallace. Bill Mounce in his book who has spoken of it by or is referenced by we spanning these are Greek scholars and grammarians. One of the standard books that you might find in reading a to learn Greek would be Bill Mounce's basis of biblical Greek. He's not the only one I referenced this children before or Matt Gerald Stevens same thing he ish the same statement but guess what it's not it's not just them it's not just them how about other Greek grammars here's one going deeper with Greek New Testament doctors Andreas Kossenberger Benjamin Merkel Robert Plummer they they said oops I didn't do that they say the exact what's wrong here it is they say the exact same thing they say the same thing the emphatic negation of the subjunctive is expressed by the double negation says then it says that about nine percent of occurring I won't read into all this though then there's another group of scholars who wrote a book this is intermediate Greek grammar syntax for students of the Greek New Testament same thing Matthew Matthew Dr. David Matheson and Lody Ballantyne again scholar after scholar and I don't mean I don't mean just Greek scholar somebody can be a Greek scholar and then disagree with the concept the question is if I gave you this example you know you've been given passages where you say yeah it's a difficult one okay this is difficult if you are a Greek remarried a scholar deal with this text this text not any other text this text now this goes back to Aaron's question Aaron's question was about it basically if someone were to walk away or does it mean that someone will walk away or anything like that because it's implied because it says let's go back to John let's put back on the screen because in John 1028 we have this emphatic negation we as and I give to them life into the ages and here it is who made up a long time negation negation subjunctive so it negates the possibility of what it says guys this according to this rule great year anyone else or dr. Brown whoever else hey look at that small world Rick says under his custom burger was my teaching pastor doctoral advisor he does a good work amen amen so now according to this passage according to this passage Jesus not Corey not even dr. Walsh or anyone else Jesus is saying according to the rules of Greek that they will never perish and the possibility of them perishing cannot happen even in the future so if a sheep is following today then if a sheep stops following tomorrow then what was that sheep never sheep the rule negatives the possibility of it happening in the future that's literally what the rule is guys that's literally what it says the possibility of it are you with me the possibility and it's one of the reasons why I also brought this up with dr. Brown that way so we got other passages also that talk about what he's gonna do him putting his spirit in us and then causing us to walk but let's go back to him she cannot walk away the sheep cannot stop being sheep because of this who may up alone type how does a person get around this grammatical construct of the Greek and say that now all of a sudden the Greek rules don't matter well that's that's the interpretation of some scholars surely you know other scholar I would hope you've researched enough that you know other scholars who don't read it like that I haven't found one text to say that but I have a professor Robert Gagnon and Robert Gagnon doesn't do that as far as I can tell as far as I can tell Robert gag now Robert Gagnon is a Greek scholar he's most known known for dealing with homosexuality in the Bible and so forth yeah I do have that layman's I do have that I don't have it on this I don't have my on my cordon software I have it on my on my logos but they don't I can't I can't I've been looking in possibly there's one out there I'm looking to find one but he hit the disappointing part of what he just said the disappointing part was I don't have those scholars there with me I've got you I'm asking you to deal with it not one of them I'm asking you to deal with it sir start there okay professor Robert Gagnon and what he has to say about once saved always say he's a highly highly respected can you test my scholar I've heard other scholars say so but I've never heard and now and I'm still waiting for one Greek scholar or one Greek grammarian to refute what I'm saying in John 10 that's not me saying it but I'm answering you there are other Greek scholars who differ but go back and watch the video and find out if he ever answers me he never right layman he never ever answers this question now you complained about me bring you know bring him quit you never answer the question all you ever did was say go find another scholar who disagrees with whatever you never answer the question but but they're not here scholar but there are other Greek you're not a Greek scholar either so you're relying on these others and there are other suggestions no no no is your trunk you're not a Greek scholar so I'm not a big scuffle wait a second wait a second wait a second wait a second okay fine so do I have to be a Greek scholar to understand the text I understand the rules of Greek I understand the rules agree I understand this one now he is he is Mount is I don't mean sky I mean I don't mean scholars I mean grammarians I mean textual critics I mean those that can go and look at it and that's what it means this is what it's saying yeah he was kind of doing that which is fine which is fine but since you're a scholar sir I'm asking you sir ask the question sir I'm getting with all respect sir I quoted verse after verse after verse after verse which anyone reading English can understand let alone reading in the Greek which only reinforce it you're trying to nuance a point which number one would negate all the other scriptures so I'm not gonna do that and number two is say that some Greek scholars hold to this but not not all Greek scholars do surely you're waiting you may not accept their arguments but since you're not a Greek scholar either you have to do someone as what makes one a scholar it's debatable it's to be it can't be it can't only be higher education now that tends to be the litmus test in most cases that tends to be it nowadays but we didn't have seminaries all the time and so what about what about a fourth century scholar so but I don't have a problem with saying a person who is as learned and has has degrees and so forth which is which is fine but but obviously we none of us think that you have to be a scholar to understand English or a scholar understand Greek and so that being the case I'll let anyone else determine who a scholar is at least to them but a scholar seems to me someone who studies it so we can whether we're scholars or not we can we can at least be scholarly do that with humility and say okay they're Greek scholars who read it this way and others who don't but doctor and my point still was find me one that doesn't find me one not that that comes with different inclusion there's a lot of Greek scholars that come to different conclusions and when we say and by the way by the way by the way when we say when when we say Greek scholars again that was the word fungible that a guy has a degree from let's say let's say he has a master's from Southwestern Baptist Elijah seminary fine seminary but his his degree was I don't know preaching whatever New Testament studies his degree was in New Testament studies from Southwestern Baptist Elijah seminary well what I know about Southwestern Baptist Elijah seminary is they don't push a heavy emphasis on the Greek New Testament scholar you got your master's in this New Testament studies but a lot of it wasn't in the Greek are you see what I'm saying so it depends on who we're talking about Dr. Brown we don't have them here I have you here I'm asking you if because if we have this if the Greek is clear and you just but it's not clear it's not clear I disagree that's clear as do other Greek scholars yeah so tell me as you read the John 1028 in the Greek as you read that passage how do you get past the Ume Apollon tie ace time only on how do you get past that how do you take that not to me very what I just said it very simply let's try it again so you you explain what you want to explain layman says do your next debate on standing for the truth child I'm not doing another form of debate again now I'll have a conversation with someone back and forth about love because we're grown men we're we're adults we're Christian adults at that and so we should be able to go back and forth so for even someone's kind of moderate the discussion that's fine but I'm no you got five minutes you got 30 second no no nope nope nope and can I say can I can I doubly can I doubly negate this emphatically no I'm not I'm not going to do it not gonna do it not gonna do it anyway going back to this those who are continuing to walk as sheep will never perish just those who are continuing to walk as sheep when the scripture says the sheep will continue see we need to understand there's a big difference there's a big difference saying that you have to do this to be a sheep versus a sheep will do this do you all understand that and by the way CH is CH is on one in the check which is fine listen you are more than entitled go back and watch the video that I did immediately after that in the video Dr. Brown asked about being sanctified I tried to explain it but again we have these different limitations and I so what I did was you go back and look at that and look at listen my explanation as I go over Hebrews 10 because Hebrews 10 he brings it about a person being sanctified I'm saying this is not necessarily applying to a believer so go listen what I said in in the I forgot what it's called once saved forever I forgot what the title of it but it's immediately after that debate listen to what what he says in John I mean Hebrews 10 all of 10 and 9 as a matter of fact because he did the writer did just write that verse he wrote all of that and listen what he says about a person who sanctified how long they've been sanctified what are they sanctified for what's happened to the person that's been sanctified so that being the case and so CH I get your point but deal with my point because the problem is I do a lot of dealing with everyone else's point you no one can ever say Corey you never deal with these other topics these other passages that they bring I've dealt with all of them but deal with this one if that's if it's the only one that I deal with that it should be easy right but anyway let's continue justice it's translated in English that's very simple not how those who choose to walk away alright so Corey here's the deal first you didn't present this at the outset which is the whole reason for opening statements and rebuttals okay forgive second I'm answering you now in the cross-examination and saying with all respect this is what it means this is what I understand it to me this is what other Greek scholars understand it to me now you may say you reject my view of the Greek and the you reject the view of other scholars that's fine I'm answering you in terms of how I understand the Greek question did he ever answer me on how he understood the Greek he never dealt with the I don't even know who may up a lot I even came out of his mouth I don't know if it even came out of his mouth I'm done I'm focused on guys three words three words in the Greek three who may apple on time three words three words he never answered though he those three words never came out of his mouth I think though what he did was he asked me to read verse 27 in the Greek because maybe thought that I that I couldn't so I'm left to believe that though neither one of us were scholars someone has a better grasp of the Greek than the other that that's all like it's all I go conclude I don't know but Dr. Brown this was this was this should have been a layup for you there should have been a dump for you there should have been alley but you net just three words we have a long we both agree that it's talking about those who are ongoingly walking with the Lord right from what I understand that it no but where and then you were saying that a true sheep will never walk away I'm saying there they're warnings throughout scripture about she where does it say in John 10 that if you continually are walking you're adding you're adding words that the pastor doesn't say John 10 27 my sheep hear my voice I know them they follow me and what does it say in verse 27 in the Greek in verse 27 27 in the Greek top robot tie tie a man and which is the sheep of mine takes phone is the voice of my of my a move I could soon I could send which is what is that Cousin can you parse that for me they are hearing this is the this is the plural present active indicative which means they are here exactly that's my point exactly that's my point you never I'm gonna depart from this point and just for now because he has his tendency of putting things there that aren't there he has a tendency of putting things there that aren't there but I'll leave that there for a second I'll come back to a particular passage and just a little bit but I want to play this other clip from him now you would probably take this as a physical healing I take this by the way I jumped in or broached James 519 and then he mentioned that because the similar rendering is also early in 513 and I'm saying that I don't think that he's speaking about salvation here I mean about physical healing here because if you were then that would mean that every time that someone prayed for someone who is sick physically then they're gonna be healed every time but then also he talks about other things in it that doesn't necessarily apply to physical healing but but his response his response is interesting this is more spiritual the reason why because if it's physical then this doesn't work 100% because we know of people that have we prayed for and didn't get and didn't get healed so the prayer of the righteous faith the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person it's explicit I wrote my doctorate dissertation on healing if you want to fight me on healing that's a whole other debate but I would not recommend but all respect buddy I wouldn't recommend you go there and I'm going to say that all right guy hey Corey let's go ahead get some questions to dr. Dr. Brown yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't work and you mean you go there buddy Carl but I'm going there I want to go there but then he says Corey let's ask some questions I've been asking questions but anyway some some direct questions to him okay I'm sorry here's a direct question if Jesus not Jesus but if God says that when he places his spirit in you in Ezekiel 36 that he will cause you to walk in his statues is that a true statement does it mean that what does that mean to you yeah that's what happens in the new birth we don't have the fullness of the new covenant yet that will come with the Messiah's return when we will never sin again in our resurrected state and that's ultimately what Jeremiah 31 versus 31 to 34 and Ezekiel 36 we're looking forward to but absolutely the new birth were changed 100% we now live differently so we will walk in his statutes yes so he says and this is where this was confusion is so we'll walk in his statutes but then we don't see my issue is I bring this up I didn't well I've got it somewhere else now I don't want to pull this other passage this other uh yeah I don't want to go there because it's gonna just just out of a second time but my confusion with that was I addressed it with him was that well if we will walk in his statutes well then how do we lose it he makes a statement that he's going to put his spirit in us now yes he's speaking to the Jews in Jeremiah 32 and Ezekiel 11 and Ezekiel 36 and Deuteronomy 30 as well as other passages he speaks all throughout the Old Testament that he is going to put his spirit in us he's gonna do that by the way let me just say this I think sometimes there is and layman you tell me if you agree with this there is a a big big big I think a big gray area where they kind of come together with the lordship salvation people and the free grace people uh there are people that have been accused of being free graces and they're not they're people that have been accused of being lordship salvation and they're not and there's like a kind of a blur that there's a there's a there's a group that are not free grace and not lords that are lordship and that are free grace and then there's a group of images like you can't tell the difference because here's the reason why the spirit in a person is going to work this is the spirit in a person is going the holy spirit in a person is going to work and so uh maybe this might now I've heard some some free graces they'll say this is the point that the spirit in you is going to cause you to be this way not that you're going to that you could because the question is you mean to me you can be a Christian just do what you want to do well no no one's who says that no I take it back I shouldn't say who says that there are some that believe that there are some that do believe that but no you can't just live how you want to live do what you want to do or as the as little rascals said go where you want to go do which one to be you want to be I don't care no that's not the case the issue is what is god doing putting his spirit in you um you mean put it you you mean put it more on slow mode what does he do he's please putting he's putting his spirit even more in you uh okay I'll make it I'll make it 60 then there we go sorry guys moderator wants it on more slow mode so it's gonna be more slower so the Holy Spirit in you works the Holy Spirit in you works by the way I've got the best moderators on the planet it ain't it's not even close not even close and so when they say Corey put it on slow mode or or uh yeah we yeah layman send me an email or if they ban you or block you you banned or blocked sorry it's your you did something wrong it's on you I'm not going back in and and and there's one time I did there's one time I did where the lady had bad eyesight and so she has to put hers in all caps but she's the only one the rest of you guys and they say no caps no caps so but the Holy Spirit is going to do something in you slow mode is a thorn in my side oh that's fine but um what does the Holy Spirit do nothing what do you mean the Holy Spirit doesn't do anything Corey does nothing nothing doesn't do anything doesn't do anything it's all on me I don't know Holy Spirit okay fine so my question to him was because he'd add these these times where he adds something to the text I won't go back and play it but we covered this issue in Revelation 3.5 Revelation 3.5 he says even if you just read an evening yeah it was a little bit kind of sending that even in English okay so let's read this in English and let's see if um and what'd you say causing you to walk in his statutes um is sanctification not justification you're right you you missed the point though Kevin if he says he's going to cause us to walk now yeah he's talking to Israel but he then tells us brings the same thing up in in John 3 and we're told that all of us who are born again John 1 12 tells us that it also applies to us Gentiles 1st John tells us that all of us who believe are the same ones who've been born again so this so this does apply to Jew and Gentile who actually has a Holy Spirit and you say that you said that it is sanctification not justification fine no problem no problem with that if the Holy Spirit is going to cause you to walk in his teachings does that does that doesn't that mean that you won't be a sinner doesn't that mean that you won't be sending I know it's not proper English but you won't be sending you won't be living a life of sinning if the Holy Spirit is going to cause you to walk in his teachings in his commands then what will you be doing your what was the issue that God has always had with us sinning that's been the issue sinning sinning sinning what takes us out of right standing according to them sinning so guess what I'll guess what God will do I'll put the kibosh on the sinning how about this passage how about this passage sir I think this is a pretty cool passage he says he says he says and I will give them one heart same thing give them one heart and one way that they may fear me always for their own good and for the good of their own should now this by the way he speaks of them putting the spirit in them and I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not look what he says though guys in this I will not turn away from them God says not me but God says I will not turn away from them to do them good and I will put the fear of me in their heart so that they will not turn away from me what in the world does that mean it means literally what it says in the English now if we ask for it in the Hebrew same thing I will put my spirit in them put it in my heart put in their heart and I will not turn away from them and they will not turn away from me well if we won't turn away from him and he won't turn away from us well then who's left to turn away it's not it yeah so but his point in John I mean not John in Revelation 3 he says God makes his promise but he says that if you you have to overcome if let's let's just read it Revelation 3 5 he who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments and I will not erase his name from the book of life well his take is that you can have your name erased he's adding an if he's adding a condition the condition is that if you you must overcome you must keep overcoming but that's what the text says the text literally promises not to happen he who overcomes well how's it what's it written hotnikon the overcoming one the ones overcoming by the way guys who are the ones that are overcoming who are the ones that it does this does anyone can anyone type in the chat who are those that are overcoming who are the hotnikon who honeycone honeycone who are the hotnikon who are the ones that are overcoming what makes a person someone who's overcoming I would love, that'd be a good question. Who are the ones that are overcoming? How interesting of a question would that be? Can someone, I don't want to get it right, Corey. Who are the ones, it's vitally important that we understand who are the ones that are overcoming. Where am I at? Yeah, it's us, but how do we get to be overcomers? First Johns, there you go, there you go. There you go, Carol. I'm sorry, not Carol. Perfect, perfectly imperfect. And we missed you, by the way. It just didn't run right. It just didn't run right without you. We got 10 good moderators and one is one wedding there. Anyway, yeah. John, don't go on it, chow young cat. This is why we have smart Christians. Let's put the passes on there because we can't just trust one of these smart Christians. We gotta trust the text itself. Let's go to the verse. I've covered this before, guys, so. Is it four? Where's it at? Don't go on it. Why is my, hold on. We fixed this dog on computer. First John, five. All right, here we go. And don't wanna start in, yeah, let's start in verse one. Whoever believes, by the way, the word is the believing ones, high pistol on. I think it's important because that's, again, is how God describes Christians as believers. Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ, the believing ones. So who are the overcomers? Well, those, well, let's find out. Whoever believes, so the believing ones, that's the one who has been born. That person has been born of God. The one who loves the father, loves the child born. Now, let's drop down to verse four. For whatever, or all the ones, ha-ti-pan, ta-gege-nemenon, which is, all the ones that are born of God. Nika, those are the ones that overcome the world. So the overcomers, the ones that are overcoming, are the ones that are born of God. Who's the ones that are born of God? The ones that are believing. Let's go to this passage. Where did this believing come from? How do we get to become born of God? Well, let's go ask our good friend Peter. He would know. First Peter 1-3, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy, has caused us to be born again. I think that's pretty good. He's caused us. So when we get to Revelation 3-5, and he talks about those that are overcomers, these overcomers were the ones that are born again, or the ones that were caused to be born again, and those that are born again, they believe. That's kind of what Jesus says. A sheep is a sheep. We are believing. We're overcomers. We're born again, born of the Spirit. We've been given the Spirit. For how long have we been given the Spirit? Which is why they can make these statements. We've been given the Spirit, I mean the Spirit, until when? Until we get to have it. Until we meet again. So, the promise is, those overcomers will be clothed. This is a middle, this is in the middle voice. I'm sorry, the middle tense, not middle tense, I mean the middle voice, but it's a future tense. So they will be clothed. God will clothe us in white. We will. And then also, we will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be erased from the book. Never, there's no example of it happening in the Bible. Which, by the way, I may ask a statement. I don't know if y'all caught this as well. I asked this question. He said it was an argument of silence. I said there's not a person, not an example of anyone that you can point to that we know definitively that was born. I mean that's a believer. And that died definitively that we know an unbeliever. You don't have an example of it. But then again, they also say, well, we don't need to have an example. Just like we don't need to have an example of someone being slain in the spirit. Don't have to have an example. We don't need examples. We don't need scriptures to back up what we're saying. Now, the whole point of me saying what I'm saying, guys, any of you guys can get bent out of shape and guess what, at this moment, it's just on you. It's, because what's the old saying, you can lead a horse to water? I believe that a person must remain. I believe that a Christian must bear fruit. I believe that a Christian must keep following. I believe that a Christian must keep hearing, believing, having faith. I believe a Christian must do all those things. But guess what? I believe that a Christian will, an actual Christian will. Why? Because Jesus gave us the description of a sheep. Jesus gave the description of a sheep. There are many who left the faith. No, there are many who left from believing the faith or from holding to the faith. But there are none who have left from having faith. There are many who have left the noun, but never one who's left the verb. There's a huge difference. Oh, by the way, words do matter. Words do matter. Nouns and verbs are different. Would you all, Grady, would you agree? Would you agree, Grady, that nouns and verbs are different? Not in the Greek or the Hebrew or Spanish or Swahili, but do you agree that nouns and verbs are different in English? Sure. Now, it's incumbent upon you when you read the scriptures and find out if it's a noun or a verb. In the last times, many will depart the faith. You can keep, listen, this is the foolishness of what you're saying. Not calling you foolish, but your argument is. It's a technical argument. What do you mean technical argument? I'm using words. Don't use the words. The only reason why you have any faith, if you do, in the scriptures is because of these words. I'm examining these words, being like a barin, going back and researching. How about you do the same thing, Grady? My question is, do nouns and our nouns and verbs different? Sure they are. So if you're leaving the noun, that's not the same as the person who's leaving a verb or being part of that verbal from having faith, from believing, are you with me? It's a big difference. And I'm not gonna be bothered if a person can't catch on to this. If a person's so dead set and fine.  Hope you don't. So all I can say, hope you don't. Now what we will do, we'll have more, because guess what? We are going to drill deep into this. There's a huge implication to believing what Dr. Brown believes. There's a huge implication to believing what some of the folks in the chat might believe. Huge implication. Now I recommend that you guys do this. You disagree, make a video. Make a video. See this is why, you know what you need to do. I would recommend Grady, you sign up for the Saturday morning Bible study classes. You don't have to sign up, just click it. Just come on and watch it. You know why?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you are bad with hermeneutics. You're hermeneutics. I think that your hermeneutics is horrible. Sorry, forgive me, brother. But this is just, have I become your enemy because I'm telling you the truth? Your hermeneutics is horrible. You asked this question, did the children of Israel leave the faith? Faith in what? Did the children of Israel have the Holy Spirit in them? Because what we're talking about now is post-cross, after the cross. After Jesus' death, barren resurrection, what saves us? Faith in that. What was Israel's problem? What was Israel's problem? What does God promise to do about that problem? But does he promise all of Israel? Because he's having a conversation with Jews. The problem is that, yeah, he gives them the oracles and they're commanded to follow them, but they can't. They never do. So what is his remedy? To give them a brand new heart, a new disposition to one to keep following. That's what it means to be regenerated, to be born again, born of the Spirit, born from above. That's literally what it means. So a person in Israel who does not believe did that person, matter of fact, here's my question, let's just do it real quick. Let's do this real quick. Let's type in eternal. Let's just type it in.  You know what I never find? I never find it associated with salvation before Jesus. You know what I never find? I never find eternal salvation or life forever into the ages. I never find that before the cross. Why? Why, friends? Because the issue that we have is God is not, they had to adhere to this over and over and over. You can be offended, I'm sorry. Listen, brother, I'm not offended that you're offended. I'm not offended that you're offended.  Don't run to another passage. I've covered all of your passages before. Deal with mine. Deal with the one passage that I say is undefeated. And I was just hoping that Mr. Brown would defeat it. I brought another Greek scholar who backed it up. He said the same thing. Yeah, Corey, that's what it means. That's what that passage means.  That's the issue. That's why you have all of these warning passages all throughout the scripture. And so the disheartening part is that we take passages that are to warn, to make sure that you do, and if a person is not acting in accordance to what a Christian is, then we say that that person is a Christian but they walked away, they lost their salvation. That's a problem. Just like we add words to the text what the passage doesn't say. He didn't say in Revelation 3.5 that you could, it's possible to lose yourself. I mean, it's possible to have your name blotted out. He didn't say that. And so my whole point is, my whole point is if I am correct, now I'm sorry, not me, not if I'm correct, but if the Greek grammarians, the Greek textual critics, the Greek scholars who actually make it a point to understand Greek inside and out, if their understanding of John 10, 28 is correct, if their understanding of John 10, 28 is correct. If, now follow me guys, if what they say about John 10, 28 is correct, and if what Dr. Brown says about another text is correct, then we literally have a contradiction. We literally have a contradiction and we need to fix that. So deal with this text. We can't have all the, it can't be that all these other passages are right or all these other passages say this and this passage says that, that we have a contradiction. All right, let me deal with this. Grady, I apologize if you were offended. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I think it's uncalled for to call my hermeneutic terrible. I didn't call you tear. I said you're, the way you read the passages is not good. Sorry. There is a reason why there are differing views even among Greek scholars. I just like some of scripture brother. How do you take that to be a heavy headed insult? I'm sorry, I apologize if that, I do care about you. I do care about you. I think you're, I, but still, I'm gonna be honest. I think your hermeneutics is bad. What do you want me to say about that? I think your hermeneutics is bad. You think my understanding of the, of Texas bad. So your hermeneutics is wrong. It's inconsistent. It's not keeping in what's going on. That's why I say so. Sorry that bothers you, but fix it, fix it.  As a matter of fact, defend yourself, defend what you're saying. I'm sorry, but again, new attitude, new attitude. Let me see something real quick. I have to, hold on. Let's, let's get this. And it is by Patty LaBelle. All right. All of this doesn't, doesn't apply to me. All of this doesn't, doesn't apply. I've tidied up my point of view. I've got a new attitude. I'm feeling good from my hat to my shoes, knowing where I'm going and I know what to do. Preach Patty. I've tidied up my point of view. I've got a new attitude. Somebody's picking tongues for me because that's what. Adam, Adam, I mean, Adam Brown. Thank you for the soup. I can't understand how a believer does feel their eternal security in Christ. Doesn't feel, I'm sorry. If you don't feel that you are no longer of this world, no matter what happens, check yourself out. Amen. Amen. Thank y'all also others who have given in the Super Chat as well. I appreciate that as well. But the warning passages, let's switch. The warning passages are pointless if there's no way for you to affect the outcome whatsoever. If God ordained for you to be a false Christian, then you will fall away. Why bother warning? Okay, well, first of all, there's no passage that tells us that God ordained anyone to be a false Christian. So I don't know where. Now, maybe you're impugning me with someone else's teachings. I'm not sure that happens, folks. I think someone, I saw someone, one of the moderates saying, the court is not a Calvinist. I'm not a Calvinist. Are there some things that I hold to that Calvinist hold to? Sure, just like you do. Just like Baptists do. Just like Methodists do. Just so that being said, Paul is clear that he has not ordained us to punishment. But that being the case, here's my question, and then we'll get ready to close. If a person says they're a Christian, Kevin, Grady, anyone else? Matter of fact, all of those, even those that agree with me, David A., least of these, true salvation, Josiah, Janae, Devonte, Lovely, Layla, Raab, Cephas, anyone else? Marvelous, chess champ.  Now, I need you guys to hurry up so we can go ahead and move on. How should I address you?   Real easy. There you go, as a brother. I should address you as a brother. I should address you as a Christian. Now, here's the question. I think you all should, I think you all will be in agreement. I should address you as a Christian. I should treat you that way. Expect you to be that way, right? Now, next part of that. Matter of fact, I like how you put that. I like how you put that. Doggone, that's good. I like how you put that, as sheep assist. That's how I should treat you. I expect you to be that way. Now, what happens if I begin Bernard or anyone else? If I begin to suspect, then you might not be a sheep assist. You might not be a sheep.  You were sorrowful of it. Okay, okay. That was on Monday. Tuesday, you did it again. Thursday, you did it. A different woman. Next week.  I got to address you as a sheep. And you're wondering, you're asking it loud. You're asking questions out loud about, is Jesus really God? Is he really God? I'll still address you as a brother. I will still address you as a brother. I'm starting to wonder some things though, but I'll address you as a brother. Yeah, he's wild. I'll address you as a brother. But if I address you as a brother, I should still call you brother. Should I ever warn you? That's my third question. Should I ever warn, maybe a second one. Should I ever warn you? Do you all think that it's a good idea that a person that I think is a brother or that at least has told us that he's a brother, she's a brother, she's a sister? Do you think it's a good idea to warn them? That's my question. Oh, Carl, I'm coming. Listen, that's a whole another video, Carl. By the way, that's a whole other video. But do you think I should warn my brother about what they're doing? Should I ever? Because if I don't warn them, am I, one of my brother, do I love them? Grady sent me an email, I'll have you on. Should I warn them?  Or have your parents warned you?    I don't know, there's no way for me to know for a fact. I'm not betting my inheritance on it. I'm not betting my retirement on it. I'm not even, you know what, I might bet the cat on that. No, I'm not, I wouldn't even bet our cat on that. No, sorry, I don't know. You know.  I don't know. What should I do? I should warn you.  Do you all believe that 70% of Americans are Christian? No, we don't believe that. So what do we do? What we do is, we say brother, sister, examine yourself, make sure, brother and sister, that you do have Christ. Cause if you don't, then everything is void. How do you know you have Christ? Well, here's how you can know you have Christ, because if you have Christ, you'll be following Him. If you have Christ, brother, sister, you'll be hearing Him, you'll be listening to Him. If you have Christ, brother and sister, you won't listen to anything else, even when the enemy tells you not to follow another God, but to follow after your own sexual desires, or to follow after your own financial desires. Yeah, that's another game. You won't listen to that voice. Matter of fact, if you are, you'll turn the other way, you'll run away.   And now only you can tell. You can look at the mirror and see, well, do I check off these boxes? Or maybe it's a struggle, fine, but still. So how should I address brothers who aren't really brothers? But I don't know that they're brothers. I'm gonna call them brothers and I'll say, eat guys, and now this is to you who are saved, who know somebody like who I'm describing. Brother, if any among you were to turn away from the faith, the belief, the noun, then let him know any one of you, by the way, it's a noun, any one of you who goes back and brings him back will turn a sinner, cause he didn't call believers, he didn't call brothers and sisters, he didn't call us sinners. Return him, let you know that you have turned a sinner. You've saved his soul from death. That's why guys, that's why we have these warning passages. Examine yourself.  Examine yourself. Anything wrong with that? You better. I think I'm pregnant. I think I'm pregnant. Nowadays, men can be pregnant. Nowadays, people with XY chromosome make up, people with the pipes and tools and constructions or whatever God made, yeah, with the plumbing and so forth, yeah. Those people nowadays can be pregnant according to society. So guy goes in and he looks like a man. He looks like a man, beautiful ball head like mine, got some, got a beard, got some traps and some pecs and some delts. And he walks into the hospital and he's got a stomach pain, like nothing's like, look here, I think I'm pregnant. I might be having a miscarriage. Yeah, Dutch. What do we do? Matter of fact, you call in to one of those care now places. I think I'm having a miscarriage. You have a deep, you have a very white voice. Think I'm having a miscarriage. You know what the nurse would probably say? Why don't you check yourself, examine. Well, have you, when was the last time you had a, when was the last time you had a cycle? The guy replies, I haven't had a cycle in, I haven't had a cycle in, it's been a while, it's been months. It's been a long time. Nurse responds, when was your last cycle? Never had one. What do you mean never had one? Well, just wasn't born with that. But I think I'm pregnant. You think I'm, I think I'm pregnant and they'll say, no, no, sir, no. Cause if you don't want to examine, so I'll examine you.  Let me just help you out. 70 year old woman. She didn't pass through menopause and had seven hysterectomy. She ain't, yeah. I think I'm pregnant. I think I might be losing a baby. Why don't you examine, okay. God tells us to examine ourselves to make sure that you do have Christ. And there are ways to know that we have Christ. If you have Christ, John even says, you'll love your brothers. You'll love the Lord. You'll hate sin. It will bother you.  So guys, the issue is that text. He literally says, if there's ever a way to say it's, I'm saying in English, it's literally impossible to lose your salvation. Jesus said it in the Greek. You want to ignore what he said in the Greek.  But Corey, we all know when we are saved. So why should we examine? I didn't say we all know when we are. That there are some that do, some that don't, some that think they do. There are, would you agree that there are some believers who are more mature than others? Yeah, I'm sure you would agree with that. So, but Jesus makes a statement. It's impossible. See, again, what you don't do, C-H, is the same thing. Is the same thing that Grady didn't want, matter of fact, Grady refused, Grady just asked, well, let's have a conversation, but not deal with the Greek. Sorry, sorry. I'm not trying to subject Grady.  So, anyway, sorry. My only issue is this Greek. I didn't enter into a formal debate with you. I did with Dr. Brown who did not cover his point. So, that being the case, guys, love you so much. I will see you all later on, but if someone can find me, if someone can find me, yes, salvation is a gift. Salvation is a gift, C-H, so is according to Paul. According to Paul, so is the faith that we have. Gave us the faith, gave us salvation, and gave us a deposit, our bond, a money, a good money deposit on this until we get to him. So, yeah, you're not forfeiting it because it's not up to you. You didn't put the deposit down. God puts the deposit down. God puts the down payment on us until he receives us fully, until the sun, until the groom presents the bride fully. Now, I've got some more arguments. I told you, but let me read before I leave. Let me read Paddy LaBelle again. Prophetess, Paddy LaBelle. I'm feeling good from my, not hat, from my ball head to my shoes. Know where I'm going, heaven. And I know what to do. I've tidied up my point of view. As Paddy says, I've got a new attitude. And so I'm gonna make you earn your points. I'm gonna make you earn your points. I'll cover all the passages, throw passage, type in the comments, what passages you want me to cover. I'll cover them again. I promise you, type in the passage. I mean, in the comments, what passage you want me to cover. I'll cover them, every last one of them. But could you also make me promise you'll deal with this, just one passage? John 10, 28, in the Greek. You don't know what to go find somebody that does. Go ask Dr. Brown to deal with it. I'm sorry, he won't deal with it. Find somebody. Otherwise, we've got a contradiction. But you don't believe we've got a contradiction, so maybe this is true. Anyway, guys, whether you believe you can lose it or not, you can't, whether you believe you can lose it or not, you can't. Make sure that you have Christ, as Paul says, examine yourself to make sure that you have Christ. Place your faith in Him.  But that being said, if you feel it's up to you, well then place your faith in Christ. Amen.


Live from London, England, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit London 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. Hello and welcome to the AWS Summit here in London's Excel Center. This is theCUBE. Here's my co-host Dave Vellante. Also, now we're joined by Prashantra Sikha, who is the Senior Vice President and General Manager at Rackspace. Now Prashantra, you're here to talk about really the next generation of cloud services. What are they and what are you communicating to your partners here at the conference? Absolutely. Thank you, Susanna and Dave for having me back on the show. Big fan of theCUBE. So really I think Rackspace, next generation cloud services are absolutely foundational to what we do for our customers. And so ultimately what we're trying to deliver is a very utility based model of services. Very similar to how Amazon thinks about the cloud and what they've effectively led over the past many years. So I think that the world, we believe the world of traditional IT services of large monolithic contracts where you've got traditional SIs that are going and working with companies to say let us transform you with digital transformation and kind of outsource services. I think those days are effectively gone and they're dead. So from our perspective, customers are on this journey from one platform to another. They're moving from traditional IT workloads to the public cloud. There's that hybrid journey that's underway and we've talked about how Amazon has really acknowledged that through its work and outposts, et cetera. But the idea is for us to say, listen, customers are on a very bespoke journey. Everyone's on a different journey, individual journey. Let's meet them exactly where they are in that journey, whether that's right now moving traditional IT workloads to the public cloud. So let's go and architect and deploy them and migrate them based on best practices that we've gained from thousands of these engagements. Or if they're further along and they're actually the need to manage and operate these in a very container centric or Kubernetes centric world, we can help them there too. Or if they're already several years in and they see their costs getting hard to control because they've got sprawl within the organization, we can help them with cost optimization and governance. And all this is enabled through what we call a service blocks model at Rackspace, which really stitches together various of these piece parts, if you will, of services across the infrastructure, security, applications across the full stack. And so that's the idea. So how would you categorize for us not the Rackspace strategy? People remember, of course, you guys catalyzed and incubated the open stack movement, which was kind of a Hail Mary against AWS. And then others chimed in. And then you realized, wow, we're going to step away. It was a great open source project, amazing. And now you're partnering with Amazon. What's the strategy? How would you describe that? Yes, I think if you've learned anything over the past 10, 20 years, and Rackspace has been around for now 21 years, that it's an extremely dynamic market and it's driven by customers ultimately and their pace of change and so on. So when we started as a company 20 years ago, we started the managed hosting business and services is the foundational element of what we do and support and expertise for customers enabled by technology. And so that really helped us take us to the first 10 years of our journey. And then the cloud movement, enabled a lot by Amazon, really took off and where it was really a mainstream consideration or an early consideration, I have to say, it's more mainstream now, obviously. But back then, so we competed with the OpenStack public cloud business and then very soon we realized our customers were all also operating in Amazon. And so that really said, listen, we've always historically said, let's go where our customers want to go. And we've always been a services, technology services company at heart. So it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to move away from that DNA and that ethos. So it's no different from customers saying at a high level, windows or Linux, we can't have a very kind of dogmatic view about one or the other. We just have to say, listen, what do customers want to work on based on what their various factors that they take into consideration? So no different here. Platforms are just platforms. They're choices that customers have. And so we started with saying, you know what, if customers want help on Amazon, they're still asking us for it, let's go and partner with Amazon to do exactly that. So that's exactly what we did in 2015 to partner with Amazon. So where do you fit in that value chain? How do you help customers and where does Rackspace add unique value? Yeah, so I think ultimately, there's various elements of value along the way. And I sort of described the service blocks model as the way in which we really bring it together. So customers are either looking for help to get to the cloud and they're asking us, what is the best way for me to get there given my current state? And so there's a deep assessment that's done from a kind of, we have a lot of expertise at Rackspace, over a thousand AWS certified experts and certifications. So we bring those experts to the customer, talk about why they're trying to go, hey, you're trying to really reduce your meantime to recovery, you're trying to increase your release cycles on a kind of a per, at a certain rate, that's very aggressive, operate with a DevOps principle and mindset. All those things are the objectives the customers have. And then we then enable them to go and say, okay, given all that, here are the workloads we would enable you to kind of like move or to kind of like build from scratch, bring our entire set of services with our infrastructure, security or application services, start with a value added set of workloads and then build from there, effectively prove the case and then move on. Do you think the very fact that Amazon web services growth has been so rapid and there are so many new services coming online every month, that's actually helping you because people need help to navigate. Indeed, that's a phenomenal point. I mean, ultimately, part of the reason why customers in our install base were reaching out to us and saying, hey Rackspace, you've done a phenomenal job helping us in our first evolution of our journey, can you help us now in this new world where it's actually quite complicated? The 1600 features on average or 1400 features on average are being launched by Amazon on a yearly basis and that's just, despite what we hear in the headlines where Cloud First companies and us, the startups of today, are absolutely leveraging Lambda out of the gate or containers out of the gate, but there's a whole host of companies that are going through this massive digital disruption, trying to compete with these startups that need a lot of help to rescale their workforce, to change the way they think about process within their organizations between their business, development and technology and operations teams. And then ultimately, how do they actually build out a much more agile way of responding to customers? So that work requires a company like Rackspace to come and help them navigate through that really, really large set of features. I suppose there's a space that you certainly didn't foresee 10 years ago. Oh, absolutely, no, that's what's so dynamic about the space, right? I think that nobody would have predicted. Even today, we're seeing just a ton of momentum with concepts that were very nascent not only a few years ago. So Kubernetes as a concept, almost every one of our AWS customers at Rackspace, what we call fanatical AWS, is absolutely looking for help on Kubernetes. And so when we think about Docker a few years ago and Docker Enterprise and we think about Kubernetes and there was that battle, today, the battle has been won. Kubernetes is pretty much the de facto orchestration engine, so nobody would have predicted that a couple of years ago. It's tomorrow that we're something else. Exactly, so it's fascinating and that's why customers need help navigating all those specialties. And you guys are the experts. You carry people through the journey. Indeed. You've mentioned hybrid before, customers want choice, even though Amazon wants everybody to put their data in their cloud, customers sometimes have multi-clouds. Absolutely, yeah, so hybrid and multi, I think is becoming a lot more, I think even Amazon is very much acknowledging that the big opportunity is in hybrid cloud because if you think about where we are in the technology adoption curve and the trillion dollars of spend that are ultimately going to move, there's no doubt that it's a cloud first world or destination is the cloud, but the vast majority of the workloads exist in traditional IT. And so how do we take that hybrid moment and outposts, it's a great acknowledgement of that. And so they're very aggressively investing, we're investing with them and helping our customers along that journey effectively. Okay, Prashant Shantra Sekar, thank you very much for talking to us. My pleasure. Prashant is there from Iraq Space and my co-host, Dave Vellante has been helping us navigate what's happening here at the AWS Web Summit. I'm Susanna Streeter, thanks for watching theCUBE.