Hey everyone, welcome back to the Nintendo Prime podcast season 2 episode 26 we got a jam-packed show today With three big topics to go you can argue a fourth sort of just floats out there because the Pikmin 4 demo drops like Any second so for people excited for that if you played the Pikmin 1 plus 2 HD pick me 3 deluxe I don't know a Pikmin 4 demo Should be dropping here in North America Sometime during this podcast might even be live now. No, I've seen a couple tweets saying it's live I don't know. I couldn't find it. Who knows what's happening there. So yeah, maybe the podcast goes a little bit shorter I got some Pikmin to play That means I was welcome in all of our guests and yes That is correct I'm just restart is using a green screen and it does apparently work with stream yard So now you know bud now you know an address. I Think I'm good, but am I lagging at all? Yeah, I would say yes Maybe you shouldn't use the green screen But it's technically is working, but you are y'all are lagging a bit Can I change it now? Oh? I see that see now you look good. Maybe just needed a second to catch up Maybe yeah, you're looking now. Look. Yeah, let's do now. Maybe you just need a second to process. Yeah, maybe you're good We'll see we'll see how it goes. So what? By the way, you can agree screen. It looks good. It does look good Hopefully it stays looking good because I am in a box So that's why there's a green cardboard box on the side of the road. Yeah. Yeah, this week has been hectic I had to move out had to take my cat to the vet twice and then an internal direct happened So it's just been a mess And so that's why there's a green screen because I'm in a box that internal direct came in a good time for you, huh? Yeah Well welcome glad to see you here glad to see you still pumping out content We also have for the very first time Zach from switch force. How's it going bud? Hey, hey doing good I'll that direct was amazing timing for me since I was on the the 621 train So it worked out worked out quite well. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say when you did the nade drink date I was out there and I'm like hmm and then he came out and he's like mad people ran with it Mm-hmm, and then it was right and it's like well, okay I mean, yeah, but then he said something on Twitter to make it seem like that wasn't it like It's weird Dude, he went he went all on family boards getting pissed that people ran with like just legitimately mad saying bad journalism And then it happened and it's like, okay, well then Either he messed up or it was a leak. I have no idea, but it doesn't matter. We got the direct That's all that really matters. So yeah Maybe he maybe that was a guess he had because he wasn't exactly sure on the date Who knows I think he just doesn't want to get picked up by major websites I don't think he wants everything he says to be analyzed I think he does like leaking but I think it's like he just wants to do it for the the fan of words friends and not Yeah, I think you just like keeping this. I think you like keeping it in like an in family thing Yeah, hey if you watch my podcast. Yes, I'm right. No, but like nobody else follow what I say Well, yeah, and don't don't profit off of my my insider info It's not really the way that that works when you put it out publicly, right?  Just make it a patreon only podcast. No one's gonna pay to watch I shouldn't say that people will pay to watch what it won't be public then it'll take a long a lot longer for the comments to Get out there And then we have Nick with no K filling in for Darren this week who got his wisdom teeth full today So that doesn't sound like fun. It's something I haven't had to do yet And I'm very thankful, but it's probably coming. So have fun. I've had him pull that it's not great I still have mine.  Yeah, that's what I've heard I mean, yeah, the ice cream is cool. We get like after half a day.  Yeah Anyways Let's get into what we start every podcast with nuts. What have we been playing lately? Maybe we have an interesting mix. We'll see maybe it won't just be tears of the kingdom across the panel Let's start with industry star. What are you been playing lately? You're not the moving shenanigans well, I still managed to Play through Pikmin one from beginning to end and I completed it I got all 30 parts. It was a nice level of stress throughout because I was averaging one part per day I was like, well, if I have a bad day where I don't get a part I might not get all the parts, but I had a couple good days. So by day 29, I got everything but I did accidentally Extinguish my entire Pikmin population so I had to reset my save but uh, is that really fun? No, Pikmin one. I'm gonna do Pikmin two maybe this Pikmin two people sometimes you're a little too risky in those caves Next thing you know. Yeah, boom Yeah, and then yeah besides Pikmin, I mean I haven't had time for anything else. So Okay, all right, sounds good. Zach, what are you been playing lately?  Last year I didn't really follow through with it, but they just introduced their conquest mode Which is more of like their tournament mode and so that's been that's been really fun That's one of those games that once it gets you it doesn't like yeah, it gets you good Lot lot of lot of I'm a whale. We'll just we'll just say that yeah Kind of figured you might be one of the whales in that game. Yeah You're so you're the problem with all the monathesis anyways Nick would okay, man. How's it going? What are you been playing lately? Um Shockingly enough, I actually have not been playing tears of the kingdom. I Beat the main story a while ago And I got to the point not where it wasn't fun But I I just felt like I needed to take a break so I didn't get tired and burnt out So I'm going through percent of five strikers to get ready for percent of five tactical coming out in November So giving myself plenty of time to beat that before The new one comes out nice, I Actually lied. I I haven't playing tears of the kingdom again. I started I started yesterday I I still haven't completed all the caves. So I'm working through not the the caves, but also the depth is what I meant Okay, cool. Yeah So I've been playing still playing tears of the kingdom. I am refusing to beat the story. I will do it I'm just it's one of those things where I feel compelled to do it Which means I'm feeling feeling compelled to rush to the ending and I told myself I wouldn't let rush this game. So If I play my cards, right, I will end tears of the kingdom in 2024 Hmm, but unfortunately, I don't know. I'm already working towards the Gerudo area and I already know That's like one of the last story dungeons. I haven't done and I'm like if I beat that Am I really gonna not just go finish it off? But that's okay, but I'm just gonna have fun to go to flame glee act for my first time I'm either a lot better at the game than I was the first time when I was fighting the frost glee acts or Playing glee acts just really easy. I don't know which one it is but It's interesting because depending on who you talk to and when you talk to them people say different things on the different like Bosses and their difficulty because like I seen people say that the I'm not gonna spoil it for you But the boss for the Gerudo dungeon is like a cake walk But for me it was the hardest boss by far And I think it really just comes down to when you decide to Fight those bosses because I was getting one shot by Just like any little touch or graze by this boss But other people are tanking like 10 hits and they can kill it easy. So I think it just depends Sure All I know is I was the one on the bridge of Hylia and I wrecked its face. That's a hard one You don't have a lot of cover. I you don't need cover. This is like it's I'll I'll say this You know, I've got some of the spirit guys walking around sometimes they get a little anxious they also sometimes take the attention away from me which um Makes it a little bit easier sometimes, but Yeah, I don't know. I I never I got knocked off the bridge once But I never hit the bottom I climbed back up and then that was it and I'm like, oh, okay We'll just do not face that direction when he does his gust. I got it. We're cool. Um, I honestly This is one of those things I do in tears of the kingdom I doubt myself because of how bad I was at the beginning And I think all my breath of the wild skill sets coming back And so I go into something and I'm gonna get wrecked and then I'm like, oh actually this was significantly easier than before Cool, uh, but that's not all I've been playing for anyone who has many friends on switch. You'll know I like mario plus rabbit sparks of hope and they drop that dlc during the direct and I have been pounding it out I've been slow going through that too because I know it's only about four hours I know it's about what it takes to be the world, but I'm really enjoying it. It's a music world So I love music and those are some of my favorite things from the first game There's a lot of musical elements going on I can't wait to see what the final boss It's going to be like I hope they put some musical elements with that as well it's uh It's fun and I'm really and I'm reminded of one thing about the game Then I'm always 50 50 on and that is the banter between Bipo and genie Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's cringe And it's totally fits in the rabbit world. So I'm just going to leave it at that Um, but I've been having a lot of fun with that game And it's really nice to revisit it in a way that's not just the tower of doom I feel bad for that game because I know it didn't sell All that great, but I do think it's such a significant improvement over the first one like the free movement To me makes it so much more playable and feel so much more like a mario game Yeah, the first game the biggest thing I liked better about the first game were the boss fights. They were all I think a significant jump up But I also think that in the second game They got a little too addicted to the freedom of movement and that kind of made the boss fights seem a bit easier Uh and not as inventive because you can kind of cheese it Uh a bit more, but That's the thing. Hopefully that means we're getting a third game. I know he said he planned Oh, this will be a decade long game. Which just makes me think okay We're just not going to get another one. That's what I mean You're going to port it over and like cool, but That's that's I'm hoping that we get a third because uh, he said after release he took advice from nintendo You know, he's like, oh, yeah, we probably should just did one per gen And I'm like, yeah, some games are that way and and if you're gonna get advice on that nintendo's the one to go Dude, they'll know. Hey, this is a great game, but it's only good one per gen You'll see it with us notice. We don't have that second 3d mario game We've done that in the past. It never really went well for us. So we're doing one per gen This is just some things are that way Some I mean, you could even look at all the mario spinoff games actually like the First mario party did awesome. The second one that to me is a significantly better game superstars It's not really hitting and had a bigger audience to hit with so which sucks because superstars is the better game It is so much better It's significant. We haven't got dlc for that like no, no, I thought that would be an expansion patch And that's why I was like, oh, we're gonna get another paper mario coming up Then I'm like, no because like origami king dig decent for them and now they're like, yeah We're not going to do a second. We're to save it. We're gonna save it. So but then we get super mario rpg So I'm pretty happy with that. Well, we'll get into that a little bit later Uh, but yeah, so I've been I've just kind of messing around with those two games Uh endabbling a bit more into this boomerang foo game that we played during prime gaming fest I had never heard of it. It is a crazy wacky fun indie game I I'm really bad at it. I tried to play online I'm not very good, but you know what it's fun That being said, let's uh get into our first topic And you know what let's just get this big one out of the way this this topic has been It's the topic that keeps giving starting back, I don't know 2017 when they said like the switch might not be like the actual switch It's like just what they had to rush out the door and there might be something better.  That's cool And now switch to or I guess as it's being referred to legally the next generation switch We now have a legal term for it. They said it once and they Made it small after that. It's just ng switch uh, so Pretty any like really bad engaged flashbacks by the way. Yeah, ng there and some people were like, oh, it's kind of similar to nx I'm like, yeah, but switch wasn't after the words nx. So So that Not a code name Does that Soft confirm that it's just another switch and they're not going super far off the rails Or is that just what they're calling it because that's what nintendo has out now Like if they had a we you would it just be called ng we you I mean, I haven't I haven't like looked at um The verbiage, but does it do they specifically say next gen switch or next gen nintendo console? Nope. They say next generation switch They might I mean you can't say for sure, right, but it does I I I think you might be right, nick that it it at least Strengthens the belief that they're probably gonna Continue in that direction, which I don't think comes as a shock to most of us Yeah, well to fill in everyone on what happened today in case you aren't aware. There's this whole FTC versus microsoft thing going on over the activation lizard merger and normally you guys pay attention to it or not It's actually quite fascinating. I've been watching a lot of uh, I don't know if you guys know who destin is I've been watching some of his recaps out there. He used to he used to work somewhere really big I don't remember but now he's got his own youtube channel doing a good good job over there But uh, what I've learned from this case today is bobby kottick CEO of activation lizard, uh, took the stand Uh, and his microphone was I don't know if it wasn't working or if he put it in his like I don't know. He was the only person to sound bad. Maybe he'd wanted to sound bad on purpose to be honest I would not be surprised. He's not exactly mr. Popular, especially with the government right now uh, that being said, uh, he said that he has had conversations with Shintaro Furukawa. Yeah furukawa was actually mentioned today in court Which is interesting because nintendo is not participating at all in any of this. At least they haven't been asked to um And a lot of it was focused on the call of duty stuff Which is understandable things like he regrets not putting call of duty on switch yada yada yada No disputes with any of that language Uh, because he basically said I had the prototype like nintendo sent me one And I thought it would tank That was his reason for never putting call of duty on switch. Now, obviously he's had many many years to change his mind And he didn't so what are you gonna do? Uh, and so what came up was if call of duty, uh, you know If it would be on switch with the merger without the merger yada yada yada Uh, and he basically said I didn't even know about I didn't even know about this 10-year deal I found out about it when the news articles came out Which is kind of funny but also If the merger goes through he's no longer part of activation blizzard. So He doesn't really have a say either way either way what happens after the company's bought Uh, but anyways the whole conversation led down the train of you know With or without the merger can call of duty go to the next nintendo platform And that that was how the lawyer phrased it And that's when he mentioned I've had conversations with shintera furakawa and there was there's one email from him supposedly in the From from furakawa to him uh in the evidence folder But we haven't we haven't seen it yet. It'll probably come out over usually the stuff comes out over nighttime the the stuff in the evidence folder and I guess uh in there, um The conversation between him and furakawa Uh, it is from his understanding was it would be a next generation switch That was bobby kottick's words on what his conversation was So, uh, that's not really surprised doesn't mean it'll be called switch. This is just like Hey, that's how we reference it. It's a new switch coming out at some point So it does kind of feel like that's what's going to happen But the more interesting part in this part's being confuddled one way or another because this is all through a zoom call That's public but it's really hard to join and overloaded because there's so many people trying to listen in Uh, and his microphone problems is did bobby kottick say That this platform is as powerful as a playstation for or xbox one or in that range And he did use those words But he also used very specific language of we do not have dev units and I don't know what the specs are So was he speculating that it'll be around that is this based on conversations? He's had with furakawa None of that's really clear because bobby kottick wasn't clear on anything other than One question in particular because him every Phil Spencer took the stand last week. It said call duty can run on switch We can make it happen. Bobby kottick's like no it can't well He was asked with microsoft's help and money Could call a duty be on switch and he had one word answer yes So what's he gonna say? That mean the deal's already signed Like if switch is still going for three years and they sell it's gotta be on switch. So Well, I don't know what else It was quite interesting that was sort of the update today and that's where you saw the headlines Oh, switch is a powerful as a ps4 will allow or like I I kind of switched up the narrative And went with steam deck because steam deck happens to be as powerful as a ps4 So it's like, oh, you know, I just wanted a different headline than everyone else but it all just means the same thing and If you pay attention to the switch to stuff over the last couple of years It's been speculated the t239 and all this stuff about it Was basically going to be around a ps4 ps4 pro power anyways So it's not really out of the realm of what people were already expecting But people were like, but we've never heard official word. Okay. Well next generation switch is the one thing We can say it seems pretty official because it was repeated over and over and over again This I don't know But what is clear is Nintendo talked about it as well their investors clearly wanted it to come Almost the entire q&a at the shareholders meeting was about the next generation switch There's like 14 questions 11 of them We're trying to get news on on switch 2 Most of it was non answers Just reaffirmation nintendo accounts are coming They're gonna go over there. Well, okay. We already you said that in 2021. Um I don't know and then the direct tap in and then you can kind of look at the games announced there and start thinking Oh, are they transitioning? So That's the recap. I'm gonna throw it out to all of you three What is the deal with switch 2? I just want to ask one thing. Um, did you did you have a specific quote? Because I know you said it was hard to kind of because there's like a call like I saw multiple articles come up today, but I haven't been able to read The specific quote he said every article I said I say it's just like copying pasting another article That's summarizing what was said. Yeah, but I want the exact words. Yeah, I don't have the exact words beyond So I have there is an exact quote from go nintendo But their sources have deleted their tweets and or deleted their articles since then so it's a little difficult But the quote was given closer alignment of gen 8 platforms and our previous offerings on ps4 and xbox one It's reasonable to assume we can make something compelling for ng switch as well Okay Which is a great quote if it's actually a real quote. It's just right. Yeah Yeah, that's the problem is my form was so muffled. So like Tomorrow we'll we'll have some sort of transcript on what was said. So we'll know exactly but That that's the problem is it's all just Summarizing because there's micro like out of all of the stuff in this whole thing. This was The stuff that we care about the most is switch fans and like it's all muffled and yucky and only people in the courtroom Really know exactly what was said assuming That this is correct, right? And I mean as you alluded to earlier like this is kind of what's been rumored, right? And I I found a few discussions with some people Not like inside sources just like, you know people who have a better understanding of like tech stuff And like from what we've heard right publicly My like what I've come to understand is to maybe expect some something in between xbox one and ps4 In terms of like raw power But when you account for the fact that's new more modern hardware and it may also be taking advantage of like an updated form of dlss The ultimate result is going to be something that Is going to impress most nintendo fans like people are going to be like, oh, this is awesome right like imagine like The zealot team using something that compares to ps4 and if you account for dlss upscaling like You could argue it overall looks better Like that that's going to be mind-blowing So, you know, I think most of us should be excited if that's what ends up happening I'm more excited what the nintendo is going to do with that kind of power, right exactly although There was one again. We don't have the official translation of their q&a yet Well, there was that one interesting quote where takahashi called developers greedy when it came to power Like oh people question switches power developers, of course, like greedy. They want all the power. I'm like, well, I mean They just want the power to realize what their vision is. I don't I don't know if I really call that greedy greedy. Are you talking about your own developers third party? I don't know. It's not exactly clear. So hopefully we get the official translation on that So I'm kind of like if your developers are saying that maybe you should listen Um Because like hey, here's the kingdom's great still has some frame rate problems. They're they're hitting the limits What switch can do? So I mean, but again, they already have something in the works That's kind of the thing. So that's why I'm sure you was talking about third party developers of that But it'll it'll be interesting to see what happens Uh with all of this man um, I want to know like do you guys think that this story that's being told that nobody has dev units, you know, Nate Drake says there's no, you know, rumors swirling right now nothing It's all quiet. Do we do we buy that? Do we really think that it's that far away that this stuff isn't out there? Or is there just a great They're playing a great charade here of like, oh, you know, nothing's happening when it really is I mean, I think we I think at this point say to say switch choose not coming out this year, right? Like, you know We'd hear a lot Hey, look Jeff this thing it might be in July You know, listen thought you gave up last time. You said I'm done. I'm on talk 2024 now. Hey Yeah, and then I reevaluated my reevaluation and now I'm back on team 2023. Listen, I'll be on team 2023 until it doesn't happen Sure. I did the same thing with tears of the kingdom I was like it's coming out in 2021 and then it did and do the same thing with 2022 eventually There we go. That's how I am with prime four every directed. This is this is it. This is it. I'm gonna be there. Yeah I think I don't feel like it's outside of the realm of possibility that it could come I I'm at the point where I don't think it's likely But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility yet. I think once we get past July And August especially games come if there's nothing there then I'll say yeah, it's definitely not this year They're not going to announce it in September and put it out in October and so I was with you that maybe you could have some Hopium for this year I've been kind of teetering But then bobby context just straight up said we don't have dev units and I'm like look There's activision blizzard games on switch They would probably have dev units if it was this year I'm just like we were too close to one that would come out for like a major third party partners and not have dev units And he can't lie On stand he might not be able to give him for information on the dev units, but they're already talking about the damn system anyways Uh, but he literally said we just we do not have them. So Uh, I look at it as it's probably 2024 But I do I believe there's no dev units out there? Oh, no, nintendo gets feedback. There's gotta be like it's probably just They're closest of partners So I could see Hey, why did we get four gigabytes of ram on switch capcom won't be shot if capcom's got one Uh, won't be shot to square enix think japanese developers that might possibly have it and we don't get leaks from the japanese developers So so outside of like nintendo directs getting a leak like a day beforehand I feel like whenever we get rumors that prove to be true It's because it has to do with a nintendo project That is outside of japan Yeah, especially like in the what like if it's a western thing We're gonna hear there's a good chance we can hear something about it It's unless it's metroid prime 4 because apparently they're really tight-lipped about that Unless there's higher inks, but that's public information. So Um, you could be right. Maybe like capcom and I don't know Yeah, I I mean I can see if platinum You know if they're working on astro train 2 forward or something if they might have it Yeah, but like these are all japanese developers that nintendo has tight control on what's happening there It's on their home territory and Things just tend not to leak out from them.  You're gonna be one of the last companies to get one unfortunately Um, you know, let's see how the deal for me on 2023 What like the final nail in the coffin was the the luigi's mansion dark moon port I I can't see a world where if they did launch in november that one of your early 2024 games is this 3ds port like that That's so counterintuitive to a new console that has great graphical power And we saw that the trailer doesn't look even as good as luigi's mansion 3. I was like, yeah, they are They are just drawing this out playing their cards. Yeah until you know, whenever they're ready holiday 2024 I mean, I've been team 2023 as well for the longest time until that direct. But yeah, I I have this like Bad feeling that like what if they don't release it holiday 2024? What if they go with metroid prime 4 is the holiday game and three more, you know, like what what if they Could they wait? I listed out, you know 12 games for next year that they could easily put out between peach luigi's mansion Mario baseball fireman 4 remake metroid prime like they have they have enough where they could just have another pretty solid year and I think If tears the kingdom was a holiday game I don't know that we'd even be talking like This way about nintendo and like oh are they on their last legs? I think the fact that they put tears the kingdom in may Created this weird Twisted reality where we think the switch is done whereas if it had launched in november like imagine if here's the kingdom Still coming out. We're like, okay, sony's got spider-man xbox has starfield and nintendo has tears the kingdom and mario Bros wonder we'd be like this is the biggest year since year one, but I think there may release date really just like Yeah, almost like hypnotize the audience into thinking.  We're done now If if tears the kingdom was coming out like say this november, I would still be on the switch to like train I'd be like, yeah, yeah in july, but that's not happening. It's 2d mario like so and for for me, right? Like I've been arguing that switch 2 is coming soon, but soon to me sometime next year, which is a relative it's a relative term, right? um And the 2d mario to me bit that that hard confirms that it's not happening, right? Like I've always thought that they're saving 3d mario for switch 2 And the fact that we're getting 2d mario now that shows okay, too. They're they're waiting at least until next year But the other kind of weird thing because you mentioned prime 4 could potentially like come out Like before switch 2 which I I thought That was gonna happen this year, right? Like I do Especially based off what like Nate the hate was like alluding to the last few weeks Like it felt like they're gonna give prime 4 like the holiday seat And maybe wouldn't even get like a 2d mario like if we did it might have been like more like a spin-off Like that's what I was kind of thinking until obviously we got this direct And now I'm not sure Like I'm not sure how they're gonna handle prime 4. Maybe they do put it down in the first half They don't care about switch 2 But it feels like that kind of game that Would benefit to be in the launch window or at least part of like that that hype cycle um, so I don't know like I wouldn't I wouldn't see prime 4 as Necessarily like just a switch game. It's kind of a toss-up for me um, but then you think about other things right like There's this donkey con game that we've been hearing about for such a long time And we we know the the park is opening relatively soon Like they have to announce that next year. I think I mean I could be wrong Nintendo's done a great job of proving me wrong before but You know like that can't be that far off is my point, right? Like why have the donkey hung expansion if there's not a donkey con game So a fun switch to as well that you brought up andres. Yeah this year the directs have Nintendo switch in the title Why It's not in every region, but it is weird that that they had switched in this recent direct like Well, they haven't like I went back. They weren't doing this last year or the year before why they've only done it in February in june Yeah, the nail in the coffin will be september if they do in in september Then that I think it's they know what's going to be announced within the next year And they want to clarify this is for switch and so when the other one comes if it has switch branding or something They want to put that branding maybe even in the name of the director or something just like a race confusion Am I crazy for thinking that the reason they're doing that is because everything is just going to be Under the switch family name that whatever comes out next will be 100 percent backwards compatible And at least at the start 100 percent's forward compatible So it's just all Whether you have a light and oh let a switch a pro or two whatever like on a playstation It's a family that just keeps me not crazy. No I mean, I think eventually there could be some exclusives but at the start. I really don't think there's going to be Align the sand So the the direct is is interesting because Uh, if you guys remember, I think it was christopher dream earlier this year that came out and said, oh, they're you know Switch is coming to an end. There's like no big games coming out. Okay. Well, you could argue. There's big games coming There's definitely games that will sell well Definitely super mario wonder is gonna sell I mean it it might outsell tears of the kingdom for all we know I mean 2d mario sales Are so hard to predict where you just go back and go go 30 mil 30 mil 30 mil Like that's just 2d mario's insane and we haven't had a new one in you know over a decade So yeah, it could it could absolutely sell really really well Super mario rpg's got millions of views online people really excited about that coming back There's gonna be a lot of new players to that game as well And that one could sell really really well too Who knows the original didn't actually sell extremely well relative to other than mario games, but That was a long time ago That I mean a whole lifetime ago when this game originally came out I don't know. I'm getting mario's growing a lot So it's 5 million plus vibes with this one. Yeah. Yeah, it's possible Because you're coming on the heels is the trailers getting you're coming on the heels of a billion dollar movie a massive theme park We hadn't had a mario since then mario will matter of account for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I will say and this is where I'm like, you know, maybe Chris Sturgeon wasn't too crazy Out of all the things announced we technically don't really have besides a Metroid Prime 4 which technically was announced in 2017 a big Triple a nintendo game that we're looking forward to right now No, we know what they said earlier in the year about there being no big switch titles It depends on how you're interpreted in terms of sales potential 2d mario was absolutely big the big of bigs, right? But in terms of big budget titles None of these games are big like I know some people will hate for me to say because it's not I was I said this in my video last week saying that the direct suggest which she was around the corner Because my ultimate argument is that you look at the games None of them look like big budget titles it to me it feels kind of like Wherever we were at at towards the end of the 3ds his lifespan like 2016 2019 that turned those transitional years They were still good nintendo published house coming out during that time But the point was is that they were kind of putting out titles It didn't require as much of as much development resources So they could slowly move over to switch And that's kind of the vibe i'm getting With what we're seeing here. None of it is like a big big budget title But still things we're going to want to play and buy like i'm gonna 100 mario pg I'm gonna 100 mario wonder like for sure But also it's weird that we didn't get a game for august or september or december They don't normally do like maybe there's a month or two that's missing But to have three months out of the six in the second half of the year to not have a nintendo published title after summer direct I don't think we've been we've had that happen throughout the entire switch era Now to be clear We still potentially have a september direct coming and we know nintendo ain't afraid to shadow drop So they could shadow drop something then they could announce a december game still I mean, you know, they have some third party games coming as well And then we have the week of mario wonder that everything seems to be coming on Um, that's a rough week for gamers if you're a multi-platform gamer. That's a rough week um But it's interesting because I kind of felt like coming out of that direct. I'm like, this is this is a really solid lineup And I'm glad they're not abandoning switch also We're obviously getting a new platform next year because these are the kind of titles you drop at the end of life But but are are they though? Because I thought the same thing but I went back and I looked at 2021. I just pulled it up just now No more heroes 3 skyward sword hd game builder garage warrior get it together metroid dread mario party and pokemon Pokemon brilliant and diamond and shiny pro was the holiday game. Yep So they've they've had some rough. They've had some quote-unquote rough years Uh, but also think about that year. They announced pokemon legends rc. So we had to look forward to right that was January We had tears of the kingdom was already announced. We had that to look forward to metroid prime 4 technically as well Except they actually were still talking old zelda. They weren't really talking about metroid anymore If zelda was coming out in november, though, what would you say? Would you say this is these are the kind of games that they released towards the end of a of a console or no? I would say That if they had zelda at the end of the year I would probably be an oh, maybe we can go another year And I'll basically hold off till the september director. They didn't announce a big game for next year that direct and I'd be like Hmm a peach game I think I think you're right though I think that's a temper direct will be sort of like the tell-all right because Obviously, they'll talk about mario wonder. Obviously, they'll talk about mario RPG and Maybe we see the future move it. But yeah, but what do what do they do beyond that? Because the whole the whole year thus far has been why are they being secretive? Why aren't they telling us anything and then they not only told us 2023, but they did dip into 2024 a bit so in september What we have at least three games that can that we know about that could be um 2024 games So right so what do they show and assuming they have that september presentation? What's there and I think that then maybe Is a lot better piece of information Yeah, well to me it's all about What is the big triple a game to look forward to and at the moment you could argue it's metroid prime 4 if people want and that's fine but um, I mean look but I think I don't think that's the game they're going to use to build hype for the new system Now I think it's going to be on the new system. I think it's going to be a cross gen title at this point, but I I think it's one of those The reason and this maybe it's hopium for 2024 But my reason is we don't know any big triple a ones because they're waiting to announce the system And then they'll be like here's 3d mario. Here's this and I think I hope they do a cross gen for a bit I'll a playstation. I think it's a very smart if there's any gen. I think it's just switch games Yeah, we get I I understand you say that but at some point they're going to stop making the games for the inferior hardware Like it's just gonna happen, but this isn't that much Superior right like especially using DLSS or some sort like We have halo infinite releasing across a ton of systems. Why can't they just do that for another seven eight years? Have the low medium quality version on switch and the high the high quality graphics on on switch to switch pro I think at some point you have to phase off the old people though because otherwise if we're if we're assuming that this new switch Is ps4 xbox one equivalent At some point they'll be handicapped by the fact that the switch right now is not that powerful regardless of whatever upscaling you put on it. It just isn't that powerful and Yeah, I think at some point they have to Wean those people off and get them to buy the new thing and that's where you say hey We have a brand new 3d mario. That's only on the new one.  You can play it on the new one. It's a Next-gen exclusive from a third party Not to say they won't keep putting out switch games. They definitely will they did that Um for the 3ds going into the switch. They still were putting stuff out on the 3ds But eventually they said hey you want to keep playing our games you have to buy a switch and you have to move on so I think They'll do that here and it might be a year or two But eventually they'll say no, you just you got to buy the new thing. We can't I mean it's just a playstation does I mean playstation cross gen for a couple years and now finally they're starting to get things that are exclusive Just to the platform because I mean that is sort of what you want you want to your When you have something that's not a move on and it's just you're just going to keep living off off what's already there You're limiting the sales potential of what that new thing is if you don't eventually have this point where it goes Hey, there's just things we can do with this We can't do with that and we need to eventually get you off of that to here because that's the base to buy the new thing um I think eventually I think a great Example of that will be whatever monolith soft does next just the way they seem to Feel like they need power switch hardware. Yeah, they that'll be I mean that's who he was referencing with the greed comment That'll be a next Xenoblade 4 whatever ip they're working on that new ip and working on for half a decade right like I don't know if it's ever going to come out at this point. It's been so I mean Maybe they'll just turn it into a xenoblade. I wonder if they're if it's such an ambitious game that they all They are the ones inside and sounds like now we need more power. We can't put this on switch like we tried I won't believe what it is. I do want to just throw out there that I think there's a slight chance that this is not the generation point. This is the pro and it would be the two three four more years down the line follow up that You know splits splits from the switch. I think it's interesting you say that zack. Um Because I was just kind of looking at like You know like the release dates for like the longest like generations we've had from nintendo Right. So if we look at the famicom, right? So like the the the japan nes They're released in 83 and the super famicom released in 90, right? So that's a seven and a half. It came it was like an april release to a november release So seven and a half years with switch right now We're by next year. It's going to be at that point, right? So You know the switch is going to probably end up being the longest home console generation But if you look at game boy right game boy released in 89 and technically its next generation didn't start with the advance until 2004 Which is insane. But yeah, but it had the game boy color Which is arguably a mid gen refresh or next gen because like it's like kind of like pocket, right? Well, that's a whole other thing, right? Like they had multiple iterations So the game boy color was weird because like like it clearly had exclusives like yeah, right So, I mean, maybe maybe we do have like a game boy color situation for switch Um, and what's weird about that? I mean, maybe it's not weird because you look at switch It's clearly not on the same sort of like trajectory as Microsoft and sony, right? So they could get away with doing something unconventional like, uh, you know a switch plus or something And it's not a true next gen leap, but it kind of is where it's kind of in that that middle ground It does push things for another four to five years I like that game boy color comparison. I think, you know, especially if you think about like accessories with this I feel like in a way they back themselves into a corner Uh, maybe this is reductive, but one thing about a true generational Step is a new controller and I don't know that nintendo can do that I mean, maybe they can throw a d-pad on there, but if we want our accessories to work We're stuck So is xbox series x not a new generation because it's the same controller And you can even use your old controllers on it I just feel like every company is pushing towards this apple model where every two to three years We're gonna get a Refresh and it's like, oh, it's the new I get what you're saying in terms of wanting to bring them over And I think that's a very good point and I don't know how you expand once you're at 130 million 140 mil like a certain point. You can't go any further but So to go over the self an analogy apple somehow manages to convert people to a little bit better a little bit better every You know year every two years and there's no, you know definitive line in the sand with ios or anything of that sort Apples is insane. They have four different like versions of the phone or sometimes more come out per year. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, it's a little weird too because like the game boy color analogy is great But a lot of people were shocked that nintendo said that that was in the same generation as The game boy when they brought up the official sales numbers oh 118 million combined. Look they grew the base No, it's game boy people buying game boy color. That's That's what happened like how many did game boy color actually sell because Game boy color has quite the expanse of exclusive library like it felt like a next generation, which is weird to say the added colors That's a new generation. Oh, well, look we were looking at green and gray like it's it felt like a pretty big leap at the time But that's how nintendo categorized it and that's and that's and that's fine My thing is That unlike the game boy color. We're not just talking about a coat of paint We're talking about a leap in power that if it's ps4 That's like twice as powerful three times as powerful as a switch That's a generational leap in power And then we're talking about this dls s and we were talking about 4k with switch pro and dl It's us years ago So let's just dream that there are some games that run at dls s and 4k even if they're just indie Like that's that that's not just going to be like a new 3ds situation Where it is a bump in power, but it wasn't twice as powerful as the original 3ds It wasn't a generational leap. This would be a generational. I think we're When we go, oh, we're getting ps4 games on switches stuff like that I think we're understanding the switch isn't close to a ps4 guys like it's not even It's it's it's just not close. Um, it's just newer architecture Which enabled some things the ps4 couldn't do because as much as people thought oh, it's 2015 tech Yeah, the 2015 tech is newer than ps4 So we had we had some dev tools we could use that we couldn't use back then, you know switch two games I think most of you maybe all of you will agree but switch two games are going to look better than ps4 games Like not across the board because it's a game by game basis. Oh, I think so in general But the most people are going to be like, oh, yeah switch two is more powerful than ps4 People are going to think that it might not be objectively true But when you account for dlss and newer tech and just more advanced techniques for this era And then just nintendo magic people are going to compare to an x y series s Sure, that's what it's going to be compared to sure. I feel like that'll be the price point for it too I can't see i'm going over 400 I they hit 300. I mean No, they're they're about to go gangbusters that they have a ball or 3d mario that's exclusive at launch and plus this Then you have metroid pride 4 cross-gen I don't know how they pull it off at 300, but that'd be insane I think everything gets knocked down a peg switch. Oh, it goes down to 350 This new one comes in or it gets knocked down to 300 new one comes in at 350 because that I mean That's a pretty solid price. I like the price. I just don't probably do it. I think it's gotta be 400 I mean how many people are it's how it's it's I just feel like they won't sell That much if they do 400 Maybe maybe they price drop quickly But do they want to price drop quickly? Nintendo does not sell things on a loss at launch. They just don't so I mean The other thing is the longer they wait the easier it is for them to have a more competitive price point Yeah, so, you know that may be one of the reasons why they're extending this generation as long as they can because The longer they wait 2025 let's go. Well, and I also think about one other thing is like They have made some comments about they really are nervous about the transition They really want to handle the transition well, and I'm not trying to compare the generations But we saw how we momentum quickly fizzled into we you disaster and I do wonder if Maybe their calculations and cautiousness around that transition Is including this family where we just continue on and they don't leave Massive success industry-wide popularity, you know behind and and they could do a cross gen But I don't know I I firmly believe that we're going to have a switch to that is at least initially positioned as like It's a better switch I if you think about the game book color is a great example because this new The new feature of this gen would be power, right? Every other nintendo generation has had some other gimmick. So unless you think they're gonna you think they're going to introduce a new gimmick Yeah I don't I just don't last process Dude, dude. We got an ir camera that isn't even used. What are they gonna do two screens? Like what what? I mean you get to have a virtual console, but we're getting to the point where like phones have They'll bring back an old gimmick. It'll bring back an old friend. They'll put a camera on the back And we'll have augmented reality again Stick those tiny little I feel like furikawa is a different Person a different leader and I feel like this is going to be a much more calculated nintendo Transition than a creative nintendo transition, which is what we've seen in the past Yeah, yeah Something that that's interesting that they kind of have a huge advantage over this time compared to prior generations Is that they just have so many games that they're just sitting on Like nintendo isn't like in a rush to like oh, we gotta finish this game on time for the holiday No, they're just sitting on games. I don't know how long mario bros wonder has been done for But i'm pretty sure it's been done for a long time Right and there are some games, you know for a fact have been done for a long time Like primary master was done for a year and a half before they released it And it's it's interesting because we recently heard about them the the ubisoft thing right where um What should we call it like nintendo was recommending that sparks of hope would be held for the next system It's like the nintendo's perspective right now is just so different from what were they used to be like they they're they're coming from a position of Just save your game. Just wait wait until it's a better time I would not be shocked if the if the next 3d mario has just been done And they're like we're just waiting for the next system like bro. We heard a prime 4 They're done with it They're just sitting on it. They might be polishing it the same way Like, you know how we just recently heard the tears of the kingdom has been done for like a year They're just polishing it. I bet you that's what's going on with prime 4 right now It's such an interesting contrast to microsoft and sony who are like We hope we can have one exclusive for the holiday season like hopefully we can get one game out there. It's very very nintendo's output is insane. Yeah, it's just it's it's so strange how they They make mar third party partnerships. That just makes sense. Like it just It doesn't feel people don't feel like they're strangle holding the industry the biggest controversy they had was Oh bayonetta is going to be exclusive. Yeah, because nobody wanted it Like they tried it was going to stay multi-platform. No, I wanted to pay for it So the antennas are well if no one wants the damn thing, we'll take it Uh, so it's kind of that was the biggest controversy. Oh, nintendo's withholding the industry I'm like, well the industry had a lot of time to To do something about it. I don't think the nintendo was the first offer. They were just maybe the only um api had said I do think it's rather interesting thinking about You know what zaks talking about with the the gameboy color and this whole Family thing because that if you remember under so that when old podcast I was I kind of said this will be what nintendo does like every few years it's a new thing And you know, once you get to that next new thing they transition out the two gen old thing or whatever you if you don't work Our generation just it's kind of like what iphone does right like right? Hey, they're still selling the old iphone the new iphone comes on like no one not everyone has to buy it They just drop the price a bit. You have the same apps. Everything just kind of works Um, you don't really feel a generational leap iphone iphone usually until it's been like I don't know from iphone 12 to the 14 now. It's been a few gens so then then you kind of feel like a jump um But I also think there's this thing where There's one company that's consistently not had this problem of transitioning. It's playstation PlayStation 1 2 3 4 and 5 um And what does it do most of the time? It's just a more powerful PlayStation now this gen they did do some rather interesting things with the controller And they haven't done that with the controller in quite some time They've been carrying mostly the same design controller since The dual shot came out basically if they pretty much been using the exact same controller Just with a slight little slight little tweaks to how it holds in your hand Until the the dual sense controller and that that's that's how you know that mark. Hey, we're doing something new with the controller It's called the dual sense controller at this time But playstation has never had a problem keeping its brand recognition never had a problem transitioning in their audience I understand ps2 was a monster. I get it like that dvds had a lot to do with that and cds and stuff Back then but the worst selling home console of all time for them sold 80 million That would have been nintendo's best before we so like We need to keep in perspective and upside just home consoles not handhelds. Nintendo's always obviously had a bigger handheld audience That they've always consistently you don't hear playstation fans worried about what's next They'll get it They know what it's going to be because they're stupid consistent with it You're getting more of what you got this generation On a bigger better box And we're happy with that and we're going to keep doing it We don't have to worry if our playstation accounts going to be there because they're not like nintendo Where they did this we u nintendo thing and they just nuked that whole thing and started all over again You don't have to worry about buying your Classic games on virtual console that having to rebuy them again when the next system comes out everything just sort of Goes forward it's compatible and i'm not saying sony's been perfect. They've had their issues for a while They wouldn't even confirm backwards compatibility with playstation 5 and 4 but The way they handle their transitions is a way that nintendo never has they always end the generation strong Even though the new systems announced making people still excited and then they've always sort of done this cross generational with a few games It's been more this has been the longest gen they've they've done it for the longest this time with cross gen and I kind of just feel like playstation's really given the roadmap that I don't know xbox has never really been able to garner the audience to do Because they just don't have they don't have the faith in the games like they own a lot of studios right now But nothing's really delivered besides the normal delivery or to the delivers lights and delivers Is there anything else people widely praise every time maybe gears? They haven't really had a big game to now Maybe starfield's going to be it and that's going to drive excitement for the next big Bethesda game after that Which will probably be elder scrolls which won't come out for a decade Um But the point is is that microsoft hasn't had the consistency with the software sony developed that consistently over time They relied on third parties early over time have built up a nice little software library Where now you get all the third parties and you get our stuff um nintendo obviously This is the first generation Really almost ever that all their development studios are on one system And because of that we've actually had a pretty consistent cadence of software releases Compared to any other system they've had so part of me goes Shintura Furukawa always worries about the transition. He doesn't want the cliff to fall off He even said in the recent shareholders mean it's really hard to maintain switch sales I don't know if we're gonna hit our targets, but Look at the software We we're doing record software sales every every time we drop a game like There's a fervor here, and I think he might be looking at it as we need to keep that fervor going I mean Yet reinvigorate with hardware eventually and that leads to your point of well, you can just do a mid-gen refresh You can just do your switch pro But your switch old ad again, but this time it actually has more power in it And that could work It could also work where they look at what play stations and say hey We're just going to keep releasing games that sell until the next thing comes out And then we'll still do cross gen for a year Well, we're going to have our exclusive because I don't even play station five at launch had an exclusive They had the dark the dark souls remaster demon souls or demon souls. Yeah. Yeah remaster at launch So they had one and I would argue. I don't know that that's a system seller but Russia They're at launch for that was cross gen um, so I think nintendo is still more of a they believe games sell hardware So I kind of think like a 3d mario Probably would still be exclusive because I'm really hate we need a reason for people to buy this box But look what they did with tears or breath of the wild Doesn't that sort of paint the picture of But they made the mistake with breath of the wild announcing it. Yeah In like a couple years into the wii u generation and you're just like, oh But it was almost like the year after they announced that they realized.  No one's buying wii u Yeah, that's a big difference right like people most people didn't want breath of the wild in the wii They didn't care for it right like if if they announced 3d mario Like, you know, if they announced it for switch A lot of people are just going to get it for switch Yeah, it's a different situation than wii u people and I think that's why we don't know just didn't care about That's why I said like what is that big triple a game? Well, I think it's because the next one they announced Is going to be that launch game that we anticipate But they're still going to give us software along the way like playstation does To keep us interested in playing games up until it comes out and the biggest thing obviously To drive faith and people buying the new games that so come on. Why would you buy the new game wait for the new system? Oh, if they say the new system has the backwards compatibility way playstation does it gives you full confidence I can buy switch games today because I will be playing it when I day one pre-order this new system I guess there's also the thought of like Because software is so successful That's got to be very alluring to execs to say we can just keep that going we can we can you know Pokemon uh scarlet violet When mario wonder if you want software dies, yeah, but but maybe it doesn't if they just keep the install base if we have You know everything's consistent then every release is going to be you know mario 3d instead of selling 3 million at launch will sell 25 million because they already have or 35 million because they have the switch and the switch too. I don't know I just I wonder if I wonder if they're clinging to their success of like we don't want to risk Screwing this up again like we but eventually if they but it's kind of like a Catch 22 almost because if they're too cautious They will screw it up. Yeah. Yeah, because there there is a point where they have to transition Also, we have to remember there are certain ip they drop that are completely evergreen mario is one of them It could sell 3 million at launch because it might sell 30 million over the lifetime of the platform Like look look at what mario card mario card ate the lux, you know It only sold like three four million at launch and it came out on switch And I mean come on So like you have to have the games there to drive people to the platform and you can argue those are the system sellers And nintendo knows that their games drive sales. They just know it's only very particular games So maybe it's not 3d. Maybe it's mario card Do you think that the the nature of selling multiple switches per household factors into them Wanting compatibility though because we don't really see that with PlayStation or xbox as much.  Yeah, you can Here's your joy come it's compatible with my switch. No, yeah, but I'm talking about like the system to the system, right like can Can my switch to play again if I have mario credit deluxe new mario credit deluxe, but I upgrade to a fancy new switch too. Can we still? Yeah, it's backwards compatible. I think you can't you come with ps5 and ps4. So why can't you do that? That's fair, okay? Yeah, so they can get back with compatibility It'd only be the exclusive game that it'd be like, oh, maybe you couldn't do that They did that with um the 3ds They did the 3ds and then they had the new 3ds and they were exclusive on the new 3ds, but it was backwards compatible So mario kart and you could still play. Yeah, mario kart 7 you could play. Yeah, mario kart 7 is a ds game No mario kart 7 is a 3ds. Okay. No. So yes, you're right mario kart ds You could put mario kart ds in your 3ds. Yes online With people on ds playing mario kart ds I'm not a hundred percent sure about online. I know for sure Yeah, all of us pretty bad. Yes online, I don't know for a fact, but I feel like maybe with the dsi I think the new 3ds is another fascinating point because What failed there that they could improve on to not have that happen here? Because they made what like three or four exclusive games and then we're like, yeah, this is not Not I think the 3ds had just Reached its saturation point by the time that came out. It was too little too late I also think it wasn't powerful enough that people cared It because didn't they also The leap forward wasn't big enough that developers were like, oh, we're gonna leave the the old people behind for the new one Like So so then you make me think maybe metroid prime 4 really is a show piece for the next thing because Are you going to be able to like is capy going to really be able to show off like the fact that Hey, this is really great graph. Look, we were we were impressed with mario odyssey back in the day when it first popped up On a little switch commercial. So you don't look good now Hear me out. Yeah, you want a game? That is going to make money and it's going to sell earthbound And But also showcases the power of this new console Don't say it I'm gonna Twilight princess and or wind waker. No In 4k not 4k, but like severely upscaled you mean That's like a summer game after it comes out. That's like a summer game after hey Listen, you drop those especially on the heels of selling 10 million On tiers of the kingdom this year So what does the tender usually launch a system with Mario or or mario? Yeah Well, they tried they tried to be mario 2d mario just wasn't impressive I mean to the next one like can a 3d mario impress I don't know if it'll visually impress outside of them being able to slap 4k on the box But 3d mario people buy systems to play and that could be that could be it enough right there, right? Just saying this is nintendo and 4k like maybe that's Yeah, like whether you can actually tell the difference or not they're gonna make you think like this is that would be crazy This is like if they put 4k on the box and then actually you put it on your 4k tv And it actually does look halfway decent and you're just coming like wait a second. This is a I get what is this thing? I have a I got a giant ps5. What is this thing doing in 4k? I mean it may really be that simple like we're worrying about all these like complications It really ultimately just came to come down to the game So if nintendo brings the heat people are gonna want it right like breath of the wild brought the heat And people like it's just come maintain that momentum. It's just don't let it go nintendo always lets it go Don't please to your point andre's like They are sitting on so much It feels like they have brewed the perfect storm where they're like we'll do these uh, you know waves of mario kart We'll save metro prime 4 we'll put out a 2d like they really it seems like could have in the oven The gauntlet right like they could have the killer lineup In a way that maybe even more successfully than you're one of switch where they could Come out with a brand new system. No no cross gen and just say we got 3d mario metro prime 4 and mario kart 9 boom Like forget it. That's and then the next year announcing new smash brothers Yeah, I mean then you're done. Then you don't like so I'm I'm now all full circle. I don't know. I don't know what they're gonna do Hypotheticals can be tender to work out right, but I guess the good news is we're gonna have great games So whatever they decide to do. Yeah at the end of the day, we get to play these great games And we'll be okay. I mean to me. That's the biggest thing that xbox and playstation are struggling with xbox more What do you play you spend $500 and what do you play? We know that will not be an issue We know whatever might be raising the price as well. Yeah, well, they are in the uk and other, you know, other european It's hitting hard worldwide right now lots of uh Financial hard times out there. I hope all you guys out there watching are are taking care of yourselves and Not being crazy like me and buying things you don't need like every video game that comes out See if I regret that at some point this year or sometimes just look at the e shop I'm like, you know what? I want to buy something. I don't know what it is But there's probably something here that would there's probably something if I could actually navigate this thing without that I want to Yeah, I'm gonna throw this out there Do we think nintendo gets crazy and announces the new system this year for like early next year like if they really Don't think they're gonna sell systems this year. I will say if system sales are tanking After tears of the kingdom and nothing seems to be getting momentum back and they're projected holiday sales are low But they would already made this decision anyways before that happened That's the thing so because that would be something they would drop in like September or october that was one spring. Yeah um And then they would still wouldn't have to worry about holiday sales overall if they only care about software sales Because the software would sell so I don't know Weird calendar Go ahead. It feels weird. Oh, you go. I was gonna say a weird calendar thing is the switch trailer dropped october 20 2016 mario wonder comes out october 28th I don't know that they cannibalize mario wonder with a switch I don't but would it if it's backwards compatible and it's announced with it It wouldn't actually cannibalize but but in terms of well, yeah, I guess it depends how much do they want to hit that 15? Million yeah, how much do they care? Well, there's like there's a consideration If and I understand that At the same time that's you took the words out of my mouth Sorry, that just popped in my mind. I was like wait a second. They announced the new thing and they dropped the price of switch That's the only way that that could actually work because if that would that would sell a lot You can get a start getting a switch light for like 100 150 Do we all agree switch is probably gonna be getting some gains for at least the next two to three years? Like yes, yes, there'll be something. Yeah, so yeah, they still want to sell and push that right So they drop the price so they can still push those sales. But like hey, look, there's a premiere model coming out Early next year Here's prime four and 3d mar to get excited about that like, you know, they could do something like that But only if there's a price drop otherwise I think they have to wait till early next year to even announce it So next just not gonna let go of it even being announced this year I don't know. I'm sitting here listening all this stuff like oh Well, if they really only care about software sales and the next system is backwards compatible Then it wouldn't matter if they announced it this year or not because you can say hey little timmy wants mario wonder But I don't want to buy it now because it's not going to be on the next thing Nintendo says oh, well, it will be playable on the next thing day one. You're like, oh I keep buying switch games till that console comes out and then they're still making their software money It's literally the playstation strategy No one stops buying the ps playstation games because they're always playable on the next thing Yeah, I want them to really just screw our entire conversation up by september announcing metro prime four for december Then we'd be like what is going on? What would be team 2024? I just be like, all right, cool. Now you have zero Yeah, like games in the cannon anymore. Nothing. I would just I would just think okay fine.  I have one question Okay, this isn't necessarily switch two related. It might it might tie it a little bit Nintendo seems to be experimenting with this drop digital versions release physical later. Oh, yeah Is this going to start to be a regular thing as you're getting almost a pattern In the september it's happening with the game community. Would they dare attempt this would say hey the next career game, you know what? Oh, you mean it's not it's not a it's not a 15 million seller. Let's let's drop digital first and make more money on that You know what I think the reason for that is this is just total hypothesis But I think nintendo hates the idea of putting a 40 dollar title And advertising that I think nintendo does not want to have 60 dollar games and 40 dollar games So if you do it a month and a half later, it's like whatever. Okay, people already bought it I don't think they like having their ip with 39 99 on walmart end caps The other the other scary thing is just saying well, hey, um, there are recent financial reports So they're actually selling more digital than physical right now. So Is this just a sign we're going all digital? I don't want to have that conversation yet I do think that is like their Evil genius plan to like just oh you can get the digital version now The people who want it now will can't wait and some people will double-diffing by physically Right. Yeah. So you still have that option right for those who want it, but most people who can't wait or just Because I had this thing where maybe they started doing it with more games, but just not the big ones For a bit until I don't know unless digital I'll wait until he starts doing it before I start speculating. I know it's only I mean it's a new thing that they've done The other thing is it's a great way to impulse people into paying More for the game cube games and they probably should be paying Because nobody nobody thinks about it. Is this game actually worth 40? No, it's there. Boom. Let's go And they lulled us with metro primary master. I mean you could buy both for 50 So they're 25 then but primary master is a full remaster and that's 40 And I think they kind of use that as their like Gateway drug to like okay now you want these and so when they do f0 gx and they do prime 2 and they do prime 3 Corruption they can be like oh Because I was looking at the math of mario 3d all-stars And the game cube games aren't supposed to be 25 bucks or 30 bucks. That's not how that's not how Like they didn't that's not how it initially worked, but I feel like they leveraged metro primary mastered first to Get us into this weird bad habit. I have a question. Maybe Okay And this let me I got look at the topic list. That's why it should be a great a great transition Um, yes, this is a great transition to the mario games Um so We're talking about the price points of this stuff. They announced super mario rpg Um, it's coming in hd and everything that is calling it super mario rpg I don't know if they think it's a full remaster or they're Think well, I don't know what they're not using remaster remake. They're just calling it super mario rpg It's in widescreen. It's an hd It looks pretty the animations look the same Everything looks the same. They didn't really do anything That crazy with it. And I know I see hundreds we start putting like yes I understand compared to the original but when I've seen the side-by-side comparisons It's just a visual enhancement, which is fine. What about the chain attacks? Yeah, the chain attacks. Yeah, but it's a visual enhancement and they're charging. They're charging Sure, sure, but they're charging 60 Holy or the music's like totally redone. Yeah, the music's redone. I'll give you that but I'm saying You were really impressive much for a primary master Okay And that was 40 bucks I don't know that this looks any more impressive than that for the work they did And they're charging full 60 I'm just kind of curious like on that because no one's really talked about the fact That it's just an old game coming back and they're charging 60 again I mean I've we we've very I know you and I have disagreed on this, right? But developers think primary master is the best looking game on switch, right? So like I Yeah, that in terms of like perceived value you could argue primary master. It should be higher I mean, Super Mario RPG is not a new game Are we tossing out the idea that there couldn't be new content? Like could there be Yeah, we don't might be yeah I wish they would have teased it, but yeah Well, I mean look at Because people thought I've never came back. Oh, they'll cut out the screen is kind of no There's Gino and I'm like I get we're getting excited about the same thing that the game used to be Like can we get excited about the new thing? Like I'm watching all the hype and I'm like you guys it looks gorgeous Okay. Yes. It looks decent. Sure. I'm not like blown away We've seen hd2d and other things like I mean it looks better. I don't really I don't want to buy into I don't want to buy into some sort of fake hope But your point about the naming convention is interesting because like Kirby deluxe Metroid primary mastered. Why why isn't this? Why doesn't this have one of those Bylines on it treating and they and they have $60 which is that full price? I don't know because not only do 70 dollar games, but um, it's like They're acting like it's a new game, but it's but I'm not dumb. It's not a new game So why is it being charged the same price as brand new games? I don't know. It's very tricky, man Like people are so excited. They're gonna get away with it but to be clear. It doesn't really matter it's it I mentioned the one thing about this game when they announced it was The game is ancient Okay, like literally entire lifetimes have passed since the since it came out. So for many people it is new And maybe that's what they're thinking like here's the price things where they think it'll sell Look at the millions of views on youtube. It's clearly gonna sell at this price. So it's a new game for me And I'm gonna buy it. Maybe not day one, but I'm definitely gonna buy it before the end of the year. All right I was gonna say like it depending on how you compare it you could argue its value, right? But because firstly most nintendo I want to be careful with my wording here. Um, let's just say a lot of nintendo re-workings As an all-encompassing term for ports remasters did did deluxe editions and all that Have new content a lot of them do So We don't know and the jury's still out on this right just because I haven't shown it yet. It doesn't mean it won't be there a great example Uh curvy's return to dreamland deluxe We didn't have any inkling of new content at first But shortly before release they confirmed the an entire epilogue story, right? So they could that could be there We got months into a release But the other thing I want to throw out there right like you compared to prime remaster Sure, you can argue it seems like lesser value even though we don't know about potentially extra content But y'all compared to links awakening remake I mean those are maybe more comparable, right? They're both 60 dollars Um While links wicked remake had some new content in there It didn't have a whole bunch of CGI cutscenes Like this does and that also animations and also had dungeon making the naming convention. It's just links away getting I mean no remake. I I think the distance between matters like this isn't spider-man remaster. This isn't demon soul Like this isn't oh donkey on country tropical freeze. This is A massive gap and so I think they should get a little credit for it being They're not remaking a Wii U game, right? They're it's not last of us coming out for the sixth time They are taking something that is currently unplayable and is current, you know Unplayable not that it sucks, but unplayable like you don't have access to it and that it It's being brought forward. Whatever you want to say about the graphics. I agree. They got cg cutscenes Everything looks substand. This isn't just they put a a stroke or uncurvy. This isn't just oh, they, you know tweak the visuals on spider like it is a Big enough bleep that they probably can get away with just saying mario rpg and I think that opens them up to Hopefully more yes, hopefully more that's that's the big hope is that this is just the beginning Of not just more like even thousand-year-door, but like hey, maybe we have Maybe we actually revisit super mario rpg and start making sequels and I mean if it sells really well Why wouldn't you do that? Uh, so I understand so here's the thing I get the hype around it As someone who never played it back then I'm buying it day one And I'm gonna play the hell out of it and probably at least beat the game if not 100 we'll see I don't know how difficult it's gonna be to 100 because I didn't play the original Um, and to my credit. Hey, I didn't play it as a kid and then they never brought it back. So Unlike most other mario games. They've been brought back or at least have had like sequels This is like one of those things where it's kind of like no they just kind of left this and it died And a lot of the excitement is that oh my gosh They're actually bringing it back Like when I watched player essence blow out his lungs and now admit that he heard himself doing it Because he was that excited because it literally has not been around since he was a little taught Uh, it is one of those things that it's like, yeah, I get the excitement But I also I don't know if someone that's been watching the industry do this over and over again Look, they're gonna get away with the pricing and I say get away with Values in the eye of the beholder Lots of people are gonna value this they would have paid 70 for this damn thing So the way people are acting and what they're acting like this is the greatest mario announcement They've ever seen in their lives some of the people excited and I think That Nintendo knew that would be the reaction and that's why they they're charging what they charge because they're like Hey, this game hasn't been around for most people. It's a brand new game And we're just we're just gonna do it. It's like links awakening hasn't been around in a long time We know we can charge what we're gonna charge for and people are gonna pay it and they did now links awakening I think you know didn't sell I mean we didn't sell what they expected. It's sold right around what the original sold Uh, which is probably not what they expected with the success of switch But with this one it's already got more views than that on their trailer than what links awakening sold So I think and they since the big holiday title, right 1117 The other small note that I'll just throw out there also is like For developers depending on who's on this it can also be used as a practice project And I'm not saying like oh, it's just that but there isn't an importance to that There there is an importance to getting people used to the engine or used to whatever and and so used to what this game is Yeah, there could be some element of that to it as well Yeah, I mean it's kind of like with the zelda team, you know They did wouldn't make a hg originally buy the zelda team because they wanted to get used to making games in hg And that helped them form their development moving forward So it could be one of those and that's the exciting part Is they did this not because they cared to bring it back, but because they're like hey That could be a game that we need to seek before because we can't release a billion mario games every generation We are now learning we it's only one per type of mario game one per type of this So we're going to release this now you're going to get a full sequel on the next platform But in order to do that we want to get this out now. So our development team who hasn't They didn't even make this game can look at it and go This is what made it work And so now we know what to do for the next one because a big thing is obviously when something has my work time And so you kind of don't really know From development standpoint why this game worked why people love it so much Uh, that they you can see that with paper mario and all the changes it's gone through They sort of forgot what people loved about the the beginning of the series versus now And I don't think it's in a bad spot now. It's just fundamentally a completely different type of experience so And if mario and luigi had to be sacrificed for mario rpg to live like all I'm okay with that Yeah, probably gonna put luigi's mansion on the next system like I need them to bring back the mario and luigi franchise. Please. I don't care if it's a remaster or a port or whatever That's what a lot of people say. Oh, they brought this back. You can play it on nintendo switch online But I don't want to play it on nintendo switch online I want to play dream team specifically, but I don't want to play it on the 3ds because I just wanted the series to continue I just wanted there to be more that long Not not compared to mar super mario rpg, but also the studio that made it no longer exists Yeah, that's what everyone tells me a studio who made it doesn't exist. Okay Like nintendo can just make it themselves. You got you got paul gale network charming in to make a big bet The super mario rpg was 11 million plus cool that would be Yeah, they're making a sequel You want to guarantee a sequel that's that's sequel is that trailer getting more views than the luigi's mansion 3 trailer That is a very good question. It's hard to tell because obviously the luigi man trailer is so long going out But right, but if it's already eclipsed it, that's a good sign. I don't know The luigi's mansion thing is a standalone Yeah, no, I just mean that the luigi's mansion 3, you know when that came to 2019 Right, like if that had to say 4 million views and obviously there's different trailers everywhere But if that game sold 10 plus million And the mar rpg trailer is getting even more views and the luigi's mansion suggests doesn't always quite Doesn't always but you know we've seen somewhere we thought there would be big sales But then the trailer has more views than sales I think they should have flipped the release dates because I think Mario bros is gonna cannibalize That's what I say Impulse by people the moms who want to get their kid the mario thing like I feel like they should have flipped them So rpg came out first and could have been more of the the impulse purchase but I don't know maybe they thought mar rpg from like a casual perspective like you just see like The the box here like oh that looks like a more epic adventure. Let me get that for my kid Because I remember I just remember like as a kid, right like I got an n64 But I think that like the marketing of super nintendo n64 where there was some crossover around the time when n64 came out because I still remember seeing Mario rpg like posters and stuff in the stores and I was like, oh, what is that mario game like mar 64 looks cool But what is that? You know, um, I didn't find out till years later. So you got bowser on the company. I'm like, yeah, that's cool It does feel very interesting that they're doing two mario games back to back Very different mario games. Oh, yeah, I know they're very different. I just have they ever done something like that before? um Where they put two like substantially sized mario games back to back It's just it's strange because beforehand nintendo had worth outputting software for two different systems and now they output for one so Super mar rpg has 2.4 million views Um on its trailer nintendo america's nintendo america's trailer Yeah, whereas mario wonder is 5.7 million which is almost ahead of the luigi's mansion 3 mario wonder mario mario wonder Has as 5.7 million. Okay. So mario wonder is is the most Yeah, it's the most viewed trailer out of the direct by a lot. No one. I mean, we're not surprised, right? Like yeah, but mario rpg is the second at 2.4 and it's like, okay, that's gonna sell well Can it hit 10 to 11? I don't know but it's gonna sell well I predict at least five Maybe a lifetime if it's backwards. Yeah five. I would say at least five for sure But that's what makes so weird like we know mario wonders do gonna do numbers like it's already doing numbers on youtube It's gonna do number like it's kind of weird that that wasn't the holiday title You know what we see another tweet from nintendo After the weekend of october 20th or whatever it comes out This is hey, we sold 10 million copies over the weekend again. They might yeah I probably I would not be surprised to be honest. I think rpg sells in the sports range And what is that range? Like we're looking at like yeah, like five fish five eight million. Yeah, yeah Which is more than my favorite series like xeno blade and fire momentary which get to three Yeah, it's a pretty significant bump over. Yes xeno blade struggles to get to two and that's so sad Yeah, I mean well zeno blade three is close, right? I was in a way three overall to become the best selling so it means there's growth Because i'm worried that the series isn't growing the thing is zeno blade two while most fans a lot of people hate it has Elements that attract a larger audience Zeno blade two was so divisive that people are just like they think that is zeno blade like it was it was different Compared to zeno blade one and then zeno blade three comes out and everyone just thinks that oh You know blade three is going to have the anime antics and trying to look at Trailer numbers to determine sales figures can also be a little hard like Animal crossing new horizons was 4.8 million and I mean I think so 30 million plus so If mario party superstars is up to 10 million Maybe rpg could get there If if the if the lower performing mario party yeah And it's it's hotly anticipated It's all the old people all the old fans are going to buy it And bunching new people and it's not multi player. What if it reviews? Well, what if what if it's a 90 plus review game? I don't know that or It depends that I think that I think the jury's still out on it right like because it's not multiplayer So that's that's like a negative For sales. Yes. So tears of the kingdom can't sell. It's not multiplayer. I imagine if it was multiplayer I Hot take I don't want any zelda game to be multiplayer. I don't I I feel I feel like that's not what I go to remember a triforce heroes and I just think when I think 3d zelda game if they want to do a spin-off like triforce heroes that is multiplayer Like bring back four stores its own thing and make it its own thing. Great. I'm totally down for that But when I think of mainline 3d zelda game Metroid prime 4 but it's multiplayer now. Nope Now if metroid prime 4 pulled a starfield and I'm trying to I'm trying to say single player games can sell is what I'm trying to I mean for sure right like for sure, but The best selling games tend to be multiplayer I think the longest lasting games tend to be multiplayer Which I mean we're on the same page if it lasts longer it has more opportunity to sell Sure, the it's not the be all end all right because single player games can have long lives Yeah, we see multiplayer games not too well too. Yeah, I mean it goes both ways But I'm just like looking like for example mario bros wonder has multiplayer, right? But it's also like a single player adventure mario part of superstars He's an online multiplayer, right? Was that Websites the webs. Well, I'm gonna say no because I've been burned enough by this point the website Player when they say local multiplayer to me that means no player or like wireless in the same room They've done that before with local too. Yeah, if they did that on switch, that'd be great I swear if there's no online multiplayer in it. That is very weird Especially since mario world Had online multiplayer added when they brought that to switch and mario maker 2 also has online Yeah, that would be odd. Yeah, but technically I looked at the website There technically is no confirmation anywhere yet that it has online multiplayer You know, I think the biggest indicator is that mario pg won't sell incredibly well that nintendo is releasing them both back to back I think if they thought mario pg was going to be a 20 million seller they would space that that stuff out Yeah, September August boom, let's go. No, no Can I just get you guys a hot take is there an august, september or december game any of them not all but any of them Well, yes, there's been one and two physical release That's not not game keep stuff not Well, so we don't count much or prime to remaster If it's a remaster, I'll count it, but if it's just So my this is my take, right? I think that there will not be an august thing So there they'll be maybe like a I don't know. There might be some dlc something But otherwise, no, I think august is when they drop the mario kart dlc because that's when they dropped it last year Then that's probably it. Yeah September if they were doing it in july, they would I know I know They just said summer Right, they haven't even given us a release date yet They only show off two tracks with the characters, but september. I think though we'll get at least prime two Maybe prime three shallow drop. Maybe that's when we get the prime four trailer. I might be wrong. We'll see And keep the hope alive and then december I think there's a little bit of a history of them like announcing like something small very casual centric for december So we might get something then, but I think that's pretty much it. Okay all right Maybe it'll be like we fit boxing outside dlc for everybody's one two switch which comes out I can't understand why they didn't put the xeno blade three dlc in august or september I can't understand right there. There's there's such a an onslaught or or why is wario aware november third Move that back to september like that doesn't need to be November third. I just don't know why they skip that those two months.  There we go This ain't that could be why jeff rubber murmurings There's murmurs. I've been watching his his show sense on tune. He's just never brought it up again And I'm just like I wonder if he's like I I was wrong I wonder if the murmurs were for this direct and then they just bumped it up To the end of june instead of doing it in july for some reason whatever reason just to screw with him Just like they did metro primary master. I want to know why nintendo is going to gamescom Like mario mario mario games really? Yeah, a lot of when you have a game that's going to sell like 20 30 mil.  You know, I wonder if everybody want to switch at the gamescom I wonder mario wonder stage show like just dance at e3 I wonder if mario wonder will have a Like you can play it at their nintendo live whatever in september. Yeah, I bet No, or if they're just gonna hard to be playable there make you wait. I don't think there's going to be a single unreleased game there Oh, man, you don't think they'll like try to tease people with mario wonder and get like Word of mouth from people who have actually The only game I think they would have there if I think the separate the strange separation from packs Is like targeting different audience But yet if you talk to packs you can get your badge and potentially still get go there Potentially Well, it's on nintendo's own nintendo live website like they're the ones saying it So it's kind of like they haven't ironed out the details, but nintendo is the one saying it So like why no it's also strange They um They're released timing for the the bad and kaitos remakes and they gave the trailer for everybody want to switch the day before um The direct but then during the direct they have as they're one of their big final announcements nintendo live just Stuff and zelda amiibo That those are their their third and second to last I will say this at nintendo live I can see them having a case with the amiibo and to look at the zelda amiibo They like to have little trinkets and little Yeah, I mean and that would be nice But it's also like why was that in a direct and why was that the second and third last announcements of the direct Yeah, why don't you get that out of the way at the beginning? Well, or just I might have a theory now sit on twitter and before I do before we jump to the zelda topic What are you guys's thoughts on mario wonder I'm in love 10 out of 10 gave me the idea. I was blown away. I I think I just sit there in my picture the young developers at nintendo trying to convince the older developers like we want to go wild We want to go crazy and to me that's just like so Exciting and there's so much passion clearly behind this project and for nintendo to Allow them to be weird with a major mainline 2d mario. I think it's so impressive and I've seen a lot of people say like oh, it's 2d mario but like I don't think I don't think the average person realizes how Routine and within a box 2d mario has been for a very long time and so to jump outside that box to me was like Like I almost teared up. I thought it was just like such a great not only a great game trailer But such a great moment to show that nintendo like They still have some cool creativity and innovation within That box was made with the ds guys just one It's a long time that box was perpetuated on the we and that's the reason i'm in high school I'm old enough to be in high school again Just saying uh, that was a long time ago Uh, that they've actually done something truly innovated with science rolling mario. So I mario wonder man At first I was like, well, this looks a little strange then it kept going. I'm like, wait a second. He did what?  What is that? Wait, why is the world doing this? What is that voice actor tonight? Wait, is that your voice acting? What?  I just hope there's a billion worlds and this game is just You know bonus worlds that are super hard. I just I I want to it all looks good There's not a single I don't have a single criticism of this game at the moment That is crazy. I usually can pick out like something and I'm like, no, I can't Yo, I'm sorry. Here's the criticism. Is it charles martin? Well, that's that's what the internet was going crazy about the criticism is it's gonna be no There's gonna be no online multiplayer. Yeah. Yeah, because it's not it's not on the website or anything Yeah, I mean it's just because on the website it says it says local multiplayer And I feel like whenever they do that whenever they specify it has local multiplayer. It also means No online which shouldn't be that way But that's just kind of like the precedent that nintendo has created with a lot of their games And I hope I'm wrong because I wanted to have online multiplayer But you know, it's really interesting just kind of looking at mario bros wonder and then also mario pg Because both games Kind of bring me back to the 90s Like for mario bros wonder it reminds me of super mario world Like the yoshi design for example, like it throws me back, right? And then obviously mario rpg literally You know, it's a remake of a 90s game. So like so for me it's kind of crazy Like it's hitting me in nostalgia like and it's also interesting because these are games are you know, they're they're the kind of games that Aren't necessarily what people might want is like their big holiday game, but like it's not like a giant open world adventure or something but When I see these games, I'm getting excited for the adventure Because it looks like they're gonna do the best that that medium can can be at adventure games Which is what mario rpg. I mean, obviously an rpg But it was also an adventure and what mario world wore for their day and that's gonna be really exciting Like I think they're gonna be stellar stellar games and it's gonna be a good holiday even if it is weird pacing To have two mario games back to back and to skip august and september But you know, I think you're spot on I think if anybody can justify a 2d game being like their holiday game It's it's nintendo. It's mario. I'm managing playstation doing that And I love I love that donkey on country tropical freeze Despite not having amazing sales did have so much of an influence like you can tell they clearly That team brought a ton of their inspiration over and I mean I couldn't I couldn't be happier at that I'm curious then what's the donkey on game look like because it feels like this is This is the donkey. Yeah, they're going crazy with this and like what new inventive thing that they do to separate it from Country now and do something crazy. I'm Can't wait you remember that the rumor about the how the cancelled project right that we talked about earlier in the year All the cancelled the right decisions, right? So like the fact that that was a thing Like that gives me hope That what they're doing with donkey kong well, I don't expect it to be like the the can't like that project The fact that that was something that they at one point were willing to green light green light and go for I think that suggests that they are willing to be experimental with donkey kong And I don't think it's going to just be another straight up Standard side scroller like I'm not saying it won't be but if it is they might do something to mix it up Or maybe they do go in it like well we heard From me a mode. Well, it wasn't from me a moto, but I thought it was Somebody want one of these insiders said something about because why why is donkey kong the next thing they were adding to the theme park or whatever Why does donkey kong being heavily featured in the mario movie? It was someone stated that me a moto really wants to make donkey kong almost as big as mario Better get working on that game then and like and like the games have never really sold outside of like the og Dk, you know rk game back in the day They've never really gotten donkey on games to sell even close to mario or be as considered as important And I I do wonder and yeah, it feels we're bringing it up on me about as old And maybe like because dk was one of his first creations And he's like hey before I before I'm done I want I want donkey kong to have the same sort of limelight mario gets And so we need to find a way with this next donkey kong game To have it's I hate saying breath of the wild moment doesn't need to be open world crazy stuff like that But like a way to attract an audience donkey kong is never attracted before And by us doing the theme park us doing him being heavily featured in a thing people are now know who donkey kong is Now we need to hit with some inventive game that's going to drive a big audience I think I that's what I think they're doing. I don't know what the answer is to draw that audience in That's up to the nintendo to figure out because I can have all the ideas in the world But that's what it feels to me and I already like knocking so that I'm not I'm not the audience They're trying to get because I'm going to buy donkey kong anyways So And I just want to point out. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here. I think this is just a matter of I love when people say that and then they do it. Oh, okay It may sound like that But I'm just trying to say I think just sometimes people come up with good ideas And then because it's a good idea the actual developers come up with that same idea because it's a good idea Right, so I remember I mean first off during the whole smash hype cycle Right that there's a lot of discussion about maybe there could be a mario rpg remake and I was one of those people It's now happening right granted didn't come with a playable gino in smash But you know it happened and then I also remember kind of speculating about a donkey kong game And it being a 3d donkey kong game And before any of the rumors I'm talking about years ago I remember talking about how like it would be really cool If they were to make a donkey kong game and it would be platforming But like tarzan Where he can like glide along the tree branches and the vines And then there is this cancelled project where supposedly that's what they were kind of working on right because they probably also saw tarzan That disney movie thought it was amazing. They're like, wow, this would be a really good idea for donkey kong So imagine, you know the actual eventual game What if they did do something like that where they make it look amazing and it plays like tarzan I was just showing take the four demos up. I just had to show it. Oh nice. It's not that's all I saw a lot of people like schedule their live stream for For today to play it to play. Yeah Anyway, all I'm saying is like, you know, what if that's what a donkey kong game is right? Like it's like this epic like tarzan like platformer Yeah, who knows um idea So the last topic is one that I don't think we're to spend a ton of time on but we'll we'll see how the conversation goes Because they did announce those zelda amiibo, right? the zelda and ganondorf amiibos I mean, they look great. They really do but Also, this isn't the first time we've gotten amiibo after a game has come out for zelda, especially We've gotten the champion amiibo who ended up being heavily featured in dlc So They didn't announce any dlc for the game For breath of the wild we knew because you could pre buy dlc before we didn't know what the dlc was Be it beyond I think they said master mode. I think that was one thing that he's Uh, because I remember criticizing that before it came out. Why are we charging extra for master mode? What is up with this? We just got this for free in other zelda games. Uh, but We knew there was dlc coming before breath of the wild so we could pre buy it There's no dlc announced now. We got to the next direct. There's no dlc We have probably at least one more direct this year because bare minimum They're at least going to remark at the games. They already announced Is there going to be dlc for tears of the kingdom? What kind of dlc is it going to be if there is? Well, and will the amiibo have anything to do with it? And if you don't think there'll be dlc, why not? I think there's definitely going to be dlc I don't know if we'll see it at a september direct. I feel like they're gonna save it for the game awards especially if those amiibo are coming out Holiday the game awards might be a little late. Well, maybe not. They're it's usually first week of december I think if they Feel like they have Game of the year Or even just a bare minimum. They'll know go on and if they won already they'll say hey We just we're gonna win game of the year. We won some other award this year for tears of the kingdom Here's dlc. Here's amiibo. They come out next week And they just we don't have a release date for them. Yeah, that's true. Just this holiday It would be a nightmare with the amiibo for Like physical retails just because that's a really short turnaround for a physical product, but Okay, whenever they're available to order, they're gonna be sold out anyways. Yeah They're gonna sell it. I mean, I know the link one actually stayed available for a while But that was before the game came out and 10 plus million people have played it and now like they might want the new yeah Now that they know who's out there again, I don't know far in this game Who knows could be wrong. Maybe maybe maybe the time of the amiibo demand is is done now and it's just I feel like it's not because the pyramid for amiibo that come out next month Are still sold out Also, I mean, yep Okay And we're getting noa and mio amiibo for xeno blade three. Yes, and they'll sell out That's almost two years after the game. I get your excitement. Um, how much did the games those those amiibo Were based on came from I mean, I'll smash I don't smash bros, but like I'm just saying they're sold out. I'm just saying I'm thinking that was a pretty small run is what I think and that's probably why they're sold out Like I don't think I think the zeal the amiibo get a much Bigger run. Oh, yeah, and they're still reprinting zelda mibo like they randomly restocked I just know I walked into I was bored link walmart the other day and I saw I saw twos looking on link amiibo on the shelf. It was only one So I mean, I don't know if that really means anything but There was one So just a couple things I was looking up Champions ballad amiibo drop before champions ballad. Yep I I don't think there's any well, I don't want to say any way nintendo has been weird But I don't under if dlc is not announced by september direct I don't I don't know they they haven't been ones to really go back to the well like they they didn't do odyssey dlc well after I don't know why they wouldn't do it to me. It seems foolish not cashing on money But these are the same people that stopped releasing animal crossing content when they could have printed hundreds of millions of dollars easily um I'll just be a contrarian and say no dlc That's all right, because I mean there's nothing announced. There's nothing announced. So yeah unless here's my only scenario Switch to is next spring and they want a time Here's the kingdom dlc So you can say hey get the 4k texture pad. Yeah, it'll be included in you know, you know, whatever march 20th 2024 And then that's they're using that as leverage otherwise Scarlet and violet was three months between release and dlc announcement We're at well like a month and a half right now. September would be three would be about the time Yeah, I mean something else to point out. Um, is that With here's the kingdom. They've been very very quiet about it Like as quiet as they can be without you know, until they absolutely have to start getting this information, right and like They've only been starting. They're still releasing art for characters in the game you learn about in the first few hours Like they're they're treating so much Like that was great Raru like we still haven't even really gotten zelda art. Well, I can understand why don't you? Yeah, but I can understand why they held back some of that for story reasons Sure, but I guess the the point I'm trying to make though is that they're being so cautious about Telling us about what's to come with this game Like I I think that that just kind of suggests that if there is dlc plans, they're also going to be Quiet about it until closer to release with breath of the wild They told us about it right but like in february before it came out, right? So I can see why It might think it's not going to come because by this point compared to breath of wood already known about it And obviously came as a bigger game. I mean, you know, 70 dollars like I can see why people might doubt it But also just considering how they market tears of the kingdom It makes sense that they haven't announced it yet. And as you brought up zack, there's a great chance They may want to save the dlc at least a part of that that dlc for switch to Especially if the next zelda is going to take another six or seven years They may want to think of ways to kind of space out their zelda content And having an epic dlc adventure Expansion to come out next year or the next year and a half that's going to help And I have to imagine the pokemon dlc timing factors in as well Because I don't think they'd want zelda and pokemon dlc kind of not that they necessarily eat each other's lunch but overlapping each other So maybe it is hey get the pokemon stuff out of the way this fall and winter and then You know then we'll kick off tears of the kingdom dlc So it has so they can treat it as a separate release effectively Sure, and actually i'm glad you brought up the pokemon thing again because The timing for that dlc like its life cycle is longer than sword and shields Yes, because like what was sword and shield there was two big waves one came out the summer after Its holiday release and then the next holiday So it was like it was seven months between release and dlc and this is going to be like 12 Right, I mean, we don't even know when the second wave is coming Yeah, that I mean we know it's by spring right, but it's it's it's looking like Well, well well over a year for the entire like maybe closer to a year and a half for the entire Series of it so it's it's they're just taking longer with it Where two pokemon dlc 4k all the here's the kingdom wave one dlc 4k there was that There was that rumor with that Chinese That said like oh the pokemon dlc is gonna have the you know the 4k update or whatever So I know listening to all of this Here here here's what I think is happening There will be dlc Uh, they will announce it this september They'll they'll say it is a three-part dlc And the first part you'll be able to get in december for free so you can pre order now you can pre order the whole thing Or you can just buy them individually because they've been doing that fine Uh, the first one will be the least exciting one. It'll it'll add some new remember when we got like hero's path Or when we got like it'll be master It could be master murder game because we don't have it in this game. Maybe it'll be master quest Maybe so It'll be it'll be a smaller thing It won't be like story dlc or anything It'll just be another small thing that you can get in december and then people go Uh, we're kind of disappointed But we want to know what these other two with these other two ones are and they go And and and they go, you know, they there will be story dlc and in either part two or part three But we're just we're going to kind of leave that to a talk about later But we have two more parts to this dlc coming Then december comes and they drop that dlc say they drop it even around the time the game awards happens At the game awards You know because they know they're gonna win even if they don't win game of the year Which I think at this point we'll have to see how starfield and stuff does Um right now no way they're gonna knock it off, but we'll see. Hey, I'm not gonna Hey, hey, they've had games in the 90s. Believe it or not Bethesda has had games in the 90s and this could be one of them I get it. I am not trying to I I mean, I guess I am Yeah, it sounds like you're knocking starfield over there.  They're one of the best developers in the industry I am personally excited for starfield But They don't always come out as extremely polished Products, sure. That's just how that is a that is a reputation they have So I just have a hard time believing Regardless of how epic it may be It's going to be able to beat tears of the kingdom Which was delayed a whole year. Well, that was actually was polished. I'll ask you this How often do they release what they consider to be the big dogs? When's the last time an elder scrolls dropped? I think even starfield has a 99 metacritic I don't think it wins game of the year. I don't think there's any way to compete with the Nostalgic whimsy that tears the kingdom If it has a 99 it's winning game of the year I don't think so I don't think techno punk space man can hold a candle. I like I'm super excited for the game I think it's going to be happy for xbox. Holy crud xbox pulled off a game of the year I don't I just I agree with you. I also want to throw out a chance And we we have to wait till starfield comes out. Yeah, I'm a reserving judgment officer, but I don't see actual game developers talking about other games the same way they talked about tears of the kingdom That's all I'm saying. Yeah, but that was after it came out. Good point. Was it after or was it like they talked about it a little bit after that Gameplay showcase and then they really started talking about it First time on starfield on twitter Some of the things they're doing with it that they're like man if they do this if they pull the But it's all if and why is it if because they do have that reputation that sometimes it doesn't quite hit What's being promised and this has happened a lot in the industry a cyberpunk Watch dogs there was a lot of chatter from developers like man if they pull this off the way they've presented This is and then they didn't Actually do that a lot of games get really hyped up Based off the premise But the actual execution Never amounts to and I think it's why the developer chatter really spiked after tears of the kingdom came out It's like no they actually did it You know, we know that it won't be starfield They didn't even show starfield at jeff kealy's fakie three He had elden ring. He had breath of the wild He'll make sure that it's it's tears of the kingdom because like you said, it'll probably have some dlc or some I mean, it's a shoot It's one of those things you see coming like we knew when that the year death stranding came out It was gonna be game of the year We knew pretty much all last year elden ring was gonna win. It was gonna be elden ringer god of war Yeah, yeah, and elden and elden ring. I mean god of war We pretty much drew from the beginning to be elden ring, right? Like it's like elden ring came out early It did it did the zelda thing it had the high rating Nothing really came close, but then that god of war came out late and you're just like, you know what? And that was that's what could happen here. Oh, you know what but really zelda had it the whole time and it really I mean tears of the kingdom the thing is with the game words. We know it's not totally objective Right, we know it's a voting. It's voting like there's no objectivity in the votes Sure, but it I I do also believe they don't always vote for the Best game right like it is in large part of popularity contest favorite game is what it should be called. Yeah Yeah, but tears of the kingdom is going to win that popularity contest. It's one of the fastest selling games of all time. So, you know Oh, I think more more people will have reviewed tears of the kingdom then Starfield by the time the game words comes and so I think there's gonna just inherently be more people that have played it So they'll vote for it. Also tears of the kingdom is the highest rated game of the year on medic That's why I said it was a 99. I'm like, I don't know man 99 is transcendent like that's I mean, sure, sure, but then also I'm on open critic, right? So like it's not going to be a 99 though. Anyway, you have convinced me about dlc though Like I good good points. You brought me around because I With side order coming out and pokemon you're right like I think they're just holding it because They don't they don't need it like they needed it. You're one to keep the switch momentum going They don't they don't need it right now So do we great side orders coming out next year or is that going to maybe be like a surprise august september release? I think that could be that could be september, right? Yeah, that could it could be like the drop It that was another weird thing about the direct though like they gave us they announced the ice cream Splatfest but didn't mention the glc. I thought about side order. What I yeah, and then they had the gall To just show it off like oh, yeah, we had to tune in the direct. That's part of our lineup Ice cream splatfest. Here you go. We know there's dlc. What do you Maybe I'll drop it already. You've already shown Why can't okay? I just I just don't know why they would not show it off in direct if it's coming out this year technically the estimated release dates like early 2024 or something So I'm trying to think it could it could be it could be more of a early next year winter drop um, but what the reason I was getting to the game awards is because I think this would and I don't know what the hell this would do to my mindset when it comes to like the next system because I I put too much stock in Zelda sometimes But like if they had that first part that's just sort of a smaller thing It's not it's not a dlc that would take away from pokemon or anything. It's not story dlc. It's not major content It's just that first little master mode and whatever clever thing They want to add in that they see after the fact players might want like multiplayer But then after it wins some sort of award at the game awards because I won't be game there because there's no announcements after game of the year So whatever award it wins say it wins best rpg or or whatever category it ends up in um Then they drop a story dlc trailer at the game awards Now it wouldn't come out till summer and this is the key thing that I'm thinking at this point They'd have a really long drawn-out release of the dlc because they'll have two story dlc's one for summer one for winter And they'll tease the summer one There being like oh, this wasn't the dlc you wanted because this is what you wanted And we just needed more time to work on it. Maybe we get to play through the imprisoning war I don't know the dlc. I think there's also an argument. There's a lot of corrections that can go I won't spoil anything, but they could potentially do post game dlc Maybe if they wanted to go that direction that I don't know how that would work I I don't want to spoil anything. I don't know. I haven't beat it yet either something. I know you guys have but I'm just like I Just I mean not yet. I know that there can be just let me get there I will say that I I think we're talking about If I haven't if I haven't beat the story yet and they announced the story dlc. I'm all right Well, I'm beating the story now. Maybe that's why they haven't announced story dlc is because they're worried It's going to spoil something in the main game Yeah, and they like December that would be a little different And it'd be just a tease Like it wouldn't be some long drawn out five minute trailer It would just be like a tease of something sort of like they they like teasing with Zelda They'll tease some sort of maybe it'll have like tangles face and you won't even know like oh Is it story dlc and then they then they say story dlc one dropping summer 2024 and you're like dlc want to wait story dlc one already letting you know that last one's also story dlc You don't you ask this with what we would want to see for dlc like Like what I want the most are new areas to explore like I want I want there to be a story dlc Which is like islands like like an ocean like one. Yeah, one would be like more skylands But another could be like like maybe like ocean exploration and like a massive mini continent to explore like to the side, you know Like maybe it's like I want to please all the province That's that's a whole other crazy idea I saw people throwing around the idea of doing another Hyrule Warriors game But based on the imprisonment age of the imprisoning war. I think there'll be a new one. There'll be there'll be a new Hyrule Warriors someday Tears are the kingdom sold so well. They got a push in it. Yeah, it's like the best-selling warriors game ever Like their age of calamity and see so I understand why you feel that way But the first thing I asked myself is But can they really just get away with doing another Warriors game with basically the same map. I mean they were missing some stuff And not that many new characters, but but but I also counter my own argument by saying They made a lot of random characters characters playable and also they can make this game This could be the imprisoning war Would be this game that could be the only thing the only thing that I feel Doesn't work is you don't have link Unless they do some weird like time travel stuff like they did in age of calamity and bring link to the past He's not there.  I mean there's Yeah, this I feel like I know what you're talking about I don't want to go too far. I get it. I get it. Um Anyways, so I think they'll be the lc I don't know when are they gonna time it with have anything to do with the new system Like that was my sort of thing if they're spreading it out over the next year And the final one drops next, you know holiday 2024. Could that be with the launch of a new system? um Don't know it's sort of a I don't know why I keep tying zelda to new systems But I blame nintendo historically twilight princess breath of the wild Then you did that then I'll we you you even gave me the one waker in twilight princess hd I just So an interesting point this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier though, right? Like so whenever zelda comes out if it's not a launch title the next system is usually about a year away so You know what if switch to is a summer release I mean the the other thought there is why wasn't tears that came delayed till holiday and so that kind of Because if there wasn't a new console around the corner, I don't know why you don't just say flip mario wonder in six months It's interesting I'm very curious on because because if mario wonder was done It makes me Wonder if there's some sort of business strategy on why they didn't put zelda at holiday that they know will sell systems And they did it here and then wonder then maybe maybe they don't think wonder is going to sell systems I think it's the price drop theory. Maybe they wanted to use zelda to pick up full price and I don't I mean there's there's there's so many angles right because like so for example with skyward sword While I do think it was a dumb move They wore they did release skyward sword a year before we you right like would it have been better to like just like Save it make it hd or something maybe or maybe skyward sword should have been out and out and out out an hour a year beforehand right before the we just died but like Nintendo does weird things that we kind of scratch our heads at right like maybe they have they're each game big game They release every six months is meant to kind of do something So the materials of the kingdom one it is kind of meant to be maybe that last big Triple a effort from Nintendo for switch that's just for switch It's like a that dedicated zelda for switch And it also kind of starts to raise the expectation of how they can price their games because it was a $70 game And then mario bros wonder, you know, it's It's kind of like that stop gap before we can move on to the next big mario game Right like they give us mario bros wonder and I don't think that many people will complain if say 3d mario comes out Next holiday and it's exclusive So and so like there's these different things especially if there is like a price cop Price cut for switch to this holiday, which obviously is highly speculative. It may be not So and then maybe next summer right they have something else is big And I don't know what that is. Maybe that's prime for I doubt I could sell 20 million copies, but you know, maybe it's still like Maybe it's that cross-gen game, right? And then 3d mario is just it's the big game that everyone's going to buy a switch to for I think I think we can also consider like The oled situation and the whole cova situation possibly just through their timing off so bad That maybe some of these things just the reason they don't line up is because they They don't line up like maybe zelda was supposed to come out last fall because they were supposed to have the switch to You know, I mean like maybe things are just so shifted that we are in kind of a weird Zone where okay, it's reactive instead of plan like okay zelda came out in may because They didn't want to sit on it for too full. You know, whatever the reason is It seems pretty clear that the oled was a or at least to me that it was a like audible Like that was not necessarily maybe supposed to feel like an audible Right. So so maybe a lot of this Maybe mario wonder was supposed to be on the new the new system like, you know, new super mario rose. We are I don't know I just I wonder if there are games that have been Either pushed forward or held like, you know, maybe nintendo was planning a release and switched you this year And that's why they told eaves at ubisoft like hold sparks of hope because I can't see them telling him sit on the game for two years Yeah, so go ahead and just sit on that thing for two three. There's no way you tell someone to sit, right? So so there has to have been some At some point. Yeah, it had to be this year at some point I feel like especially when that conversation happened like it had to be like, oh, yeah This year would have been better if you waited Yeah, because I don't think they had they don't expect that company to sit on those that money for two Which is weird. Plus there's also a heavy suggestion nintendo would have given them dev units if they wanted by the way Which means we'd know everything We would know everything about the stamping they announced the uh, they announced sparks of hope in 2021 So if they had that conversation, well the conversation happened after the game When ubisoft announced the sales run good um, that's when apparently furukawa talked to him and said hey Our advice is that you should have waited. It's too late to wait now, but it's like one of those that like in extra nothing Yeah, I was like, why didn't yeah, that's probably what he's thinking. Like, why didn't you tell me this? Oh, yeah, this would have been nice to know two years ago Why didn't you tell me this when we were telling you we wanted to announce it? You announced it in 2021. Maybe we thought it was common in 2021 but then like Wasn't sparks of hope delayed to 2022? Or was it always supposed to come out in 2022? I don't remember that could have been it too. Maybe maybe it's supposed to come out sooner I don't know. Well, uh not to belabor this point, but apparently Eves did say we ignored them and that led to poor sales implying that he was told beforehand Yeah, that's that was my impression that otherwise I didn't know about the ignore part. Okay, so All right. Yeah, no did tell him cool. Well, hey Um, you're maybe it was maybe it is maybe it is this year. Also, you'd have to have units So you could also argue maybe Ubisoft didn't make a bad decision because Maybe they were left with the impression it might come out You know in 2022 or 2023, but Ubisoft was like, well, it might also not so let's just put it out now and not risk waiting for no reason And now in hindsight he brings it up because he's probably like Damn it. Even if it doesn't come till next year, we should have listened like clearly That was the move Well, we're gonna try to make this a 10-year game now and try to repackage and resell on the next system and Hey, it works for Mario Kart. Can't work like it could work I don't think it will for this particular game, but it could work My my fear is that this will be it. I hope not. I hope they're gonna make one more at least and try it on the new