I'm Dean Perine and on behalf of JSA, thank you for tuning in to our greener data virtual roundtable. Today, I'm joined by a range of specialists in the data center industry who are featured contributors to our upcoming book, greener data volume two that will launch on Earth Day 2024. Today, the group will talk about an important topic featured in the book, building the business case, unlocking the social and financial benefits of going green. We'll begin by going around the virtual table for some quick introductions. Panelists, let us know a little bit about your role, a quick snapshot of your organization and why the topic is so meaningful to you. Michael will let you kick it off. Hi, Dean. My name is Michael Boron. I am a broker and associate vice president at Cushman Wakefield. We are a global real estate services company and I work within the global data center advisory group. It's a global group of real estate and data center professionals focused on servicing the data center industry. My team mostly works on large site selection projects, capital markets and consulting services for both operators and tenants and end-users. Excellent. Thank you, Michael. Raymond? Yeah, Raymond Burrell, senior sales executive for EchoSense. We're based out of Nottingham and I am responsible for the Americas from the sales side of things and we are focused on thermal optimization as well as capacity planning for mission critical end users, data center owners and operators. I'm looking forward to this chat. Excellent. Thank you, Jason. Pete, I'm sorry, Raymond. Jason, you're next. Thanks, Dean. Jason Carlin with Flexcentral, I'm the chief innovation officer, which means I get to do a bunch of fun things and Flexcentral, if you don't know anything about that, is a data center operator, builder, provider with a range of cloud managed services and interconnect products really focused in the United States. 19 markets, 41 data centers across the country. Next one, Jason. Pete, now you. Thank you. Thank you, Dean. Pete, this bit managing part of Eden 7. We're part of the Cambridge Money and Consulting Group of Businesses. Principally, we are a consultancy business that helps organizations decarbonize and helps them with the strategy and really drive change into their organizations and across a number of different industries with particular interest into the data center industry and making sure the organizations are aligned to their customers' needs and making sure that their sustainability strategies and their sustainability plans really do deliver for their client base as well. Very good. Thank you, Pete and Francois. Hi, I'm Francois Serent. I'm a chief operating officer at the Data for Group. Data for Group is a leading co-location provider in Europe with presence in Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid, Milan, and Warsaw, five markets, and we have always been involved in sustainability over the last 20 years of working in data centers and I'm a big proponent of why green make business sense and I'll explain a little bit more. Excellent. Thank you so much, Francois. And thank you to all the speakers. So let's go ahead and jump right in. Innovative thinkers in the business community are coming to view sustainability activities in terms of market opportunity and value creation between ECOS. Economic and environmental progress are no longer seen as competing, but rather as complementary forces. With that question number one, in the data center context, what is some of the low hanging fruit in terms of aligning financial and sustainability benefits? Francois, we will go ahead and kick this one off with you. Yeah, there's many low hanging fruits still. We think we are already good on that, but there's actually many, many things we can do. I'm not going to talk about PUE or user deficiencies that much, but I think there's still very simple thing we can still do where you would both save money and be good for the planet. Let's say for instance in the data groups, you increase temperature a little bit with the latest recommendation from ASHRAE. It doesn't change anything really on operation. It doesn't cost anything. And then you improve your PUE right there and it's good to consume less electricity and it's better. Using renewable energy also is still a lot of people already do it, but it needs to be even more mainstream. Now in many jurisdictions, renewable energy is cheaper than conventional energy.  So you talked about the two echoes, economy and ecology. I mean clearly they are aligned in the data center industry. There are still many areas where you can optimize like I just said. Very good. Jason, your thoughts? Sure. I agree a bunch with Francois. For us I think it starts really very much at the design phase really before even building. So site selection and being able to change the design based on the environmental conditions of the region that we're in. For example, what we do in Oregon is quite different from what we do in Denver versus what we do in Atlanta. So it really starts at kind of a baseline at the design level of understanding what the environmental conditions are within those regions and being able to customize for that and then to also just be focused on helping our customers understand how they're using energy. We have a ton of data just on power utilization and how it's being used on our customer base and being able to help them understand kind of their thermal dynamics and what's going on. Asheray, the Delta T temperatures have changed a lot. It's kind of funny these days they have a customer come into your data center and say it feels hot versus what everybody was very familiar with 10, 20 years ago where it was very chilly. So things have changed a lot. There's I think things that we learn every single day. Liquid cooling is another area that can be much more efficient from the thermal load perspective. It's maybe more complicated from a lack of standards and things like that. But very interesting space to be in and very important with us to look at our impact on the climate and our communities. Thank you, Jason. Raymond? Yeah, I think I'm going to echo slightly a little bit of what Jason and Francoise are saying. I think energy efficiencies in optimization from an energy standpoint is the easiest lowest hanging fruit right now when it comes to the fact that we're very busy building hyperscale data centers. Obviously there's a huge draw from AI and other apps that run that require a lot of compute. But we're really missing the boat on the stranded capacity that's already out there thermally and from an IT perspective. So I think, you know, before we get too far down the road with large capital projects, let's make sure we're using what we already have built the most efficient way possible, right? So optimizing that space, returning that cooling capacity back to you so you can then increase the compute before you decide where you need to build or how you need to expand is probably going to be the lowest hanging fruit. Obviously, selfishly, that's what our software really excels at is the optimization thermally. But it is, frankly, the lowest hanging fruit right now. So let's just make sure we're doing the right things with the energy we already are consuming. Very good point, Raymond. Thank you. Pete, your thoughts? Yeah, I think around the cost of things, it's clear, you know, those optimizations aside is hugely important and you can save on consumption and that's a fantastic thing. I think maybe looking at it from the other side of revenue generating and so making sure your message is strong to your customers. I think there's sometimes quite a mixed message on the strategy that's being delivered and how it's articulated to the client and how it's aligned to the client as well. And sometimes it gets very much important to the technical detail of it but actually really making sure that it can speak to the customer is quite important. So maybe that's more of a revenue generating opportunity rather than the cost saving opportunity. Clearly the cost saving issue is usually important. I think some folks agree with you. I'm seeing a lot of thumbs up coming from the listeners right now. Michael, final thoughts on the question? I'm going to echo mostly what's already been said but coming at this from a sustainability perspective for site selection, the lowest hanging fruit is always locating within a market that already has access to green power. The closer to 100% the better. Challenges are that a lot of those markets are seeing longer timelines to connect but even with that we're seeing groups look at sites with longer and longer timelines with the intention of securing that power. And we really are seeing impact investment decisions between markets. So if you have all things being equal between two markets but one has a cleaner grid, the cleaner grid is going to win most of the time. Very, very good point. Question number two, what new thinking will help position sustainability as a strategic business goal? The question again is what new thinking will help position sustainability as a strategic business goal? And Michael, we're going to stick with you on this one first. Yeah, I'm of the mind just working with our kind of thing. These decisions are largely going to be driven by end users as well as regulation within market. I mean on our end user side, we're doing quite a bit of RFPs and RFIs out to data center operators within market. We have dozens of questions that rank providers based on their sustainability and it does materially impact what our recommendations are. While cost is important right now with the overall economy, we're seeing more and more weight get placed on the sustainability metrics over time and they are seen as a risk over the life of a lease. So if you're approaching it from the tenant's perspective, they're trying to look at and assess a site beyond just even what the initial term of the lease is. So they're looking at the site five to 10 years, what potential regulations are coming down the pipeline, will that affect this site? How will that affect my co-cost of operation? It's a very expensive task to have to move those deployments into new facilities. So it's something that we're seeing more and more of. It goes beyond the initial financial terms of the deal and I mean because of that operators have to look at this. I mean we're already seeing it in most markets in North America and Europe, newer more efficient data centers and greener markets tend to have lower vacancy rates than older facilities that are less efficient. You can go into most markets in North America and you'll find that to be the case. Pretty good Michael, thank you. Pete, your turn. Yeah I think we're seeing it across a number of different industries, not just the data center side of things, but around that a collaboration has took quite a lot. Innovation is really important, so if we're thinking about what new things are being done, I think organizations are coming together and it might be competitive, maybe not so much, but you know within the same supply chain of a major customer. That is something that is talked about quite a lot and innovation forums around that. Also introducing and it isn't consistent across every business case that's ever been put together, but introducing carbon pricing into business cases. So really starting to get the business cases moving on the back of the environmental side of things. Now you know all business cases have to stand up on their own feet from a financial point of view, but sometimes they do get pushed back in the short term because they may not stand up to something that needs to be delivered in the next six months. So I think if we're seeing that more and more and it comes in different flavors to be fair, especially for your global business and how you keep your consistency in carbon pricing, but that may well be an element of stuff coming to you as it's part of organizations thinking. Excellent Pete, thank you. Jason, what new thinking will help position sustainability as a strategic business goal? Yeah, we talked a bit about data and since it's interesting right now just the impact of AI on our industry. I think I saw a stat yesterday that envidia ship 900 tons of H100 GPUs last quarter. They require a ton of power and space and cooling to go make that happen and don't see that slowing down anytime soon, which really means the impact of AI is from a consumption basis and the data center space is massive. So I think the opportunity to take AI and sort of apply it against some of the challenges that we're having and we're talking about here is also quite substantial. And so I think being able to use the utilization data, power data, consumption data and start to automate ways to be more sustainable and more cost effective and efficient is the right way. We've got a customer that is a massive SaaS customer that uses automation to really change their workload dynamics from a power consumption and cooling consumption capacity on demand without any human interaction all year long based on their seasonal dynamics and what their use cases might be during tax time or during holidays or whatever it might be. So I think there's really some great technological advances that are just right around the corner with the improvements around AI, the accessibility and IoT. Very good, Jason. Thank you, Raymond. Yeah, I think there have been some good answers so far. I'm going to take a slightly different tact. I believe that from the beginning of sustainability when the lead was brought out originally and we started to think about how do we be more sustainable when it comes to infrastructure. I believe life cycle costs need to be prioritized over first costs. So the first cost mentality right now is driving a lot of monthly, quarterly and annual decisions from all businesses and sustainability really drives home the value in a life cycle perspective. So if you're going to envision that iceberg showing the tip of the iceberg outside of the water, the bulk of the cost or life cycle costs are underneath the water and that's where you can crash and run into that and it can cause major issues for you later in your business's future without having those costs under control. So I think if we move to a life cycle perspective when making these types of decisions sustainably then obviously green wins every single day of the week. There's never going to be a scenario where you're going to regret all the trees that you saved or the amount of energy and the carbon emissions that you've reduced 10, 15 years down the road especially if you start to brand and associate your brand with this investment. So maybe construction costs go up 10% but then you're seeing realizing a savings over many years later 50, 60%. So at the end of the day I think having the courage to spend a little more upfront to design and build and manage and operate sustainably is going to deliver all the end results on the back end when it comes to your brand, your partnerships and the growth of your business, the stable cost structure. So if not even improving that by having these efficient technologies. So I'm thinking that's where the shift needs to happen. We need to stop watching the stock ticker and start thinking about our long-term impact of our decisions. I think some of our viewers agree with you based on the heart emojis and thumbs up coming around but Francois, your final thoughts on the question. Yeah and your question is around what new thinking I would answer actually what new context will position sustainability as strategic even more than it was before. I think the context is I think Jason mentioned a little bit about it is like the acceleration of demand with the AI coming in. We're seeing every single day of an announcement and we did ours this weekend of like billions of financing to build new data centers, gigawatts and super massive facilities. And the thing is data center used to be the super desired investments so communities were doing all what they had to do to attract investment. I think now I'm seeing the reverse happening is like now data center needs to convince community to welcome this huge facility and there is an increasing challenge of acceptability of the data center like community accepting to actually also data centers. And how do they accept? They accept if you're sustainable. So my bottom line is like sustainability is period like your license to operate if we want to continue to grow as an industry. We have no choice but actually to be sustainable. It's not just financial. We discuss about the financial aspect of it but it's a financial from an aspect of if you want to continue to grow and to serve your customers has to be sustainable and not just like using renewable energy being energy efficient but also look at more dimension of sustainability like use of resources, water is an increasing area of attention, biodiversity, land usage. In Europe land usage is a big deal and so reusing existing building rather than building Greenfield for instance. And so all those things are by default strategic right and they're you know right there like a front and center of any decision. And so clearly for me the era is now you have no there it's a good thing right you have to be have a sustainable credential very well established otherwise you're not just going to be able to build. Excellent thank you very much Francois and a great great answer is gentlemen. I'm going to go ahead and move on to the next question. Sustainability risk management SRM is a growing field that aims to balance potential to balance potential to balance the potential to address ESG risk against a business's profit objectives. How is your business working to address sustainability risk and what principles guide your mitigation strategies? I love this question I'm sorry that I put you're asking it but Jason let's go ahead and start with you. Sure we just published our first ESG report this year or 2022 but have had a very strong ESG program for the last probably you know three or four years specifically. I run our customer advisory council as well so I get to engage with a lot of our big clients to understand you know where their heads are at in terms of climate and sustainability initiatives and I I will definitely say it's you know it is top of mind we're actually holding another workshop here in a month to understand you know changing requirements and changing needs that they have and as you you may know the SEC has a new climate reporting standard that is hitting public companies here in 2024 so making sure that they can at least report out their energy you know consumption and sort of clean energy capabilities is super important to them you know we've been part of the science-based SBTI science-based initiatives as well as IMAISIN's climate accord you know it's really trying to set standards and understand standards on Francois mentioned PUE it still seems like it's the lowest common denominator that most of us can get our heads around but it's it's got to go beyond that to being able to you know really provide you know almost a blockchain of electrons and where they're coming from and where they're going to to really track you know the the usage and really being able to prove to our customers where power comes from I've spent way way more time and I'm a technology guy talking to power companies in the last you know a couple years and I thought I ever would and it's the whole supply chain of of you know transmission and generation and you know where their renewables and and you know low emission or no emission capabilities are coming from and you know they've been sort of dealing with the supply chain issues just like anybody else which is why we have you know conditions in California and Virginia and others where it's just impossible to even you know get power from a traditional energy source so lots of dynamics and really you know spending more and more time as a company and I would say as an industry understanding what those dynamics are and planning for the future and getting ahead of it very good thank you Jason Michael your thoughts yeah so we're approaching this from from both the operator and the tenant perspective on the operator side for site selection we're trying to get ahead of what our clients are looking for they are looking for sustainable sustainable developments and platforms to to grow the scale has never been bigger so it's also probably the most challenging time to find those solutions but we're getting ahead we're finding sites where like we believe you could build a platform for one of the most sustainable data centers in the world in multiple markets but the timelines are often challenging for them right you have to work with the community you have to work with municipalities local governments you have to find partnerships you find that a lot with especially trying to try to fit data centers into for example district energy systems right in North America we don't have quite as robust a platform of district energy systems as maybe Europe but it's getting there there's a lot of interest and quite frankly there's a lot of value in that waste heat and reusing it for other uses but it does take time to put those partnerships together so we're trying to get ahead and and put those programs in place for our clients ahead of time and that ties back into what I was saying and RFIs and RFPs for our end user tenants as well I mean they see this as a risk the data center is it's been a lofty industry and there's been a lot of growth but at the same time like there are groups that have been left in the wayside there's been some bankruptcies over the last few years so like our tenants were educating our clients of the financial health of the operators that are providing their services as well as the sustainability metrics that are being reported on because these are seen as long-term risks if you wait for the regulations to kick in and all of a sudden big capital costs are required to stay competitive or stay within a regulation what does that mean for the operator does that mean it goes into a separate fund and it's going to get sold like these these are all questions that end users and tenants are looking at when assessing sites and again it goes beyond the initial term of the service agreement or the lease they're looking they're trying to look 10 15 years and beyond what's going to happen so really getting ahead of these trends I think is it is how we're trying to help our clients mitigate these risks excellent thank you very much Michael Pete how is your organization working to address sustainability risk and what principles guide your mitigation strategies well I mean I think I think the the important thing about this is it's about making sure that you've got strong governance in place and that organization I mean it's always kind of been there for organizations over time and it will really kind of drive them drive them forward and make them a more agile business as they as they move forward so I think getting as much information as you can and really kind of thinking about your landscape is is really important so I think the the organizations really need to kind of think about that and they need to really think about how they're positioning themselves and also position themselves against their customers needs and kind of reduce some volatility to their customers as well so we've seen that with the energy prices that we've had in Europe recently where prices have been very high and I think that from a business point of view both from a risk and an alignment to the customers needs is is crucial so organizations can make sure that they are aligned to to give their customers less volatility around that around that and also allow them to have the the relevant kind of security of supply as well so all of those risks are really nicely aligned to meeting what the customers are looking for in the future and and I think that aligns to also the customers kind of net zero aspirations as well as well very good thank you Pete Francois your thoughts yeah so on how is it a risk management or an opportunity management I mean we can debate for a long time but we take it more from a positive side that with the way we've organized is we call the data for good program where we have zero stream with the environment side of thing it's it's a fairly standard CSR program with like also the social responsibility and and the committee but more recently what we added is definitely a more detailed stream on governance and reinforcing the governance and measurement and the reporting we talked about some public disclosure that I think in Jason mentioned in in the US that is coming coming also in Europe with what we call the CSR directive coming into play where people will have to report anyway publicly and so we we also part of the climate neutral data center fact in Europe we are certified that we have certified our carbon trajectory with SBTI as well so there's definitely a huge stream on on this part of I would say not governance from a human perspective but from a data and from a measurement perspective and frankly some days I I feel I'm just doing reporting right between our customers our investors and our and the the public authority we are reporting a lot of of data on on that so but we see this reporting as an opportunity also to to drive into to be more efficient in the day-to-day business so it's not just important to to improve right so that's how that's how we we do it and we will continue to do this but clearly this this is this principle and we also added a stream on very recently more like local territories and how we contribute to the community I think that's important back to my first comment on the new context about getting the permit to to grow actually and if you don't address the local communities you're not going to get that permit so doing specific outreach to local communities to explain what is the digital economy I mean pretty basic you know like kids in college they they don't always understand that when they play tick tock there is actually physical infrastructure and a server somewhere right it's not in the cloud it's actually in a very hard you know existing facility just around the corner so when you start like okay and that's kind of I think it's also important to to build that knowledge in that understanding thank you Francois and Raymond your final thoughts on the question yeah so lots of good answers Francois gave me up for a few different things there so I appreciate that I do believe and agree with you that the risks are opportunities at EchoSense we've we've released recently our compliance package for ESG so obviously being based in Europe we have a different response and a different preparedness for this for these directives that are coming online that have teeth and that are financially risks obviously for the company so those compliance and reporting we don't want guys like Francois spending all day making reports right we want to be able to streamline that process for him so that he can get back to doing what he does best so I think compliance and reporting are what we are leaning into to support obviously the company itself is founded on getting to net zero so you know we we're very in alignment very much in alignment with this I look at it financially obviously there would be penalties we want to future proof the Americas with what's going on in Europe and prepare us over in the States to be ready when we do have teeth when anything if something can't get through our Congress and it has teeth we're going to need to be ready for it and so ultimately I think that's a big risk the other risks I think are are coming from a branding perspective as well as a perspective of you know how conscious are you and how where are you of the community impact right so Francois is mentioning earlier what is the community impact and how vested are you in the local community so if you're not branding yourself with being forward thinking thinking about the planet and our resources right we've talked about the utility grid and what type of power you're getting how clean is this power how sustainable is this power source so you know all these things are a bit overlap a little bit but they're all risked to our way of life and our professional ways of life right so I think it's important to save the money it's important to be aligned properly with the community and with the future where we want to go but ultimately I think the the greatest risk is to the fact that you know we only have one planet one home that provides us all of this all the blessings that we have so ultimately the biggest risk is we are not we're not going to hand over a sustainable healthy planet to our next generation I think you know aligning with that as your your your tent pole that holds up your tent is very very positive way to address this and mitigate your risk and and I think financially is the easiest way is to to be compliant gather the data make sure that you're in in in compliance and that'll be the best way to mitigate it short term excellent Raymond thank you very much any other thoughts on this question before we move on all right then I am going to move on next question how do you see risk analysis from a sustainability perspective playing out in your conversations with your clients let me go ahead and read that one more time how do you see risk analysis from a sustainability perspective playing out in your conversations with your clients Pete let's go ahead and start with you yeah I think I think the whole kind of risk analysis sustainability discussion is a different discussion that's probably been had before across once again multiple industries um historically it can be very transactional um and just very much a um you know a deal by deal basis and I think there is a both a the risk side of things and an opportunity also um by having this dialogue with organizations and your customers just clearly shows where you are as an organization and I think it's uh you know been discussed already that you know sustainability will become a ticket to the game rather than just a selling point but also the risk management of what you're doing and the huge requirement of energy the right type of energy coming into data centers how it's sourced and what you're doing and also looking at various other elements you know price volatility as we talk about security of supply yeah there's a lot of work that's being done and requests that we see around adaptation so actually managing climate changing living with climate change as well so having those discussions with your customers and saying what you're actually doing and what your forward plans are are hugely beneficial and so that's taking those risks and showing that you're actually concentrating on those and turning it into an opportunity because organizations and especially you know some of the bigger organizations that are taking data and long-term contracts from data centers will want to know that they're within an established business that's got a plan in place so I think by having those discussions and highlighting the risk and how you're managing them could turn into a longer term opportunity amazing answer there uh Francois your thought yeah I think I mean I'd like to add a slightly different approach to this which is risk analysis and time to market actually in the ideal world if there was no time to market you would go to the best site with the best grid connection 100% renewable energy you would spend a lot of time in designing and etc etc but then you would deliver capacity in 2035 and today I think what we're seeing the demand most of the selection is driven by availability more than actually the perfection of the the sustainable side it's a bit of a I would prefer not to but that's the real life and there is a race for data center capacity right now we're seeing that there is a you know more demand than real supply given we talked about AI and everything and so it's a bit of a it will normalize obviously and over the course of three to five years it will be a bit more I would say yeah I try to really optimize the sustainability part but for today I think I see our client just taking capacity where they can actually and it's a bit of a bitty but that's that's a reality and and up to us also as operator to to catch up real quick on the next generation of data centers and be able to propose this on real real quick and I think we are serving like a large corporate and hyper scalars they all have pretty ambitious sustainability goals so the risk I mean for us we have to use 100% renewable energy be efficient on the on the energy etc etc so that is not even a risk analysis it's just you're in the game or you're not right so from their perspective and but then with the mitigation of availability right and time to market I'm seeing a lot of shaking I'm nodding of the the other panelists Jason that includes you what are your thoughts yeah I mean it is a little bit of a interesting time right now just if you have capacity somewhere somebody will take it and it probably doesn't matter which I think is a bubble of that you know latency is a AI killer at the end of the day so ultimately stringing out you know capacity across different regions and states and countries you know limits some of the use cases that you can do there so I think it will eventually come back together but you know what I'm seeing with with our customers it really started maybe with with COVID which was an interesting time of just disruption you know kind of in our in our industry in the world right so thinking about risk and having more conversations about it and then you know talking about ESG and DEI kind of during that time because it was a very sensitive time in terms of just you know people worrying about their families and their health and and then sort of shifting a couple years forward and talking about sustainability and environmental goals there's a little bit of you know we're going to kind of roll into a recession and we're really worried about optimization and we spent a lot of extra money during COVID so how do we how do we make sure we're balanced the cost to you know our sustainability and ESG goals and then I would say now it's very much the conversation is okay ESG your goals prove it to me that you know you put your money where your your mouth is and I think that's we're seeing that more and more with our customer conversations you know which is why we've you know really focused on our reporting but also you know things like our green bonds that we did you know two years ago I think was the largest you know data center asset back security deal focused using you know green bond which you know ultimately requires us to make sure we're conforming to those requirements so I think you know customers want to make sure that you are you're able to prove it essentially today which I think is different from three or four years ago in the conversations very good Jason thank you Raymond your thoughts yeah you know I think um what's interesting I'll take a slightly different tack those are all great answers and uh I kind of covered it is I think from the perspective of working with your customer to mitigate risk you need to be willing to have the uncomfortable conversation you also need to be willing to help hold their hand through the process of understanding how how do you become more sustainable and how does that measure up with your financials and your your vision and your plan for your business I mean this is throwing a monkey wrench into a lot of people's goals and ambitions right to race out as they said find capacity and build and build if they have to take a step back and look at their business holistically and figure out what do I want to measure how am I going to report it and what am I going after when it comes to a sustainability perspective most clients are uneducated frankly at this point they're used to you know day-to-day doing what they have to do to get the job done they're not spending all their days becoming experts on sustainability so our job is to obviously hold their hand through this process and then and be able to ask the tough questions but also have solutions ready right if I uncover the pain and I put them in a state of of disrepair and they're a little concerned I need to have some solutions for them as well that will help them to address this but I think that is to me or the rubber meets the road is is having uncomfortable conversations get used you know get comfortable being uncomfortable and helping them to have the tough calls like I want to build I have capacity and I you know I want to spend this X amount of dollars in this perspective but if I don't tackle and I don't put money towards reporting I don't put this process together maybe that ends up impacting me in a way that I that I really can't handle in the next you know a couple few quarters etc so I just think that is important right making sure that you are able to work through these things hand in hand with your customer and that's really going to I think build and strengthen your relationship in the long run and at the end of the day hopefully get a sustainable metrics and you know installed and integrated thank you Raymond and Michael yeah number one completely agree with both Jason and France was point on this here vacancy rates are certainly a challenge especially when we're representing tenants like it when when your options are limited by what's available on the market I mean you can wait sustainability all you want and all of those metrics but if it comes down to two options there's not too much that you're ranking and that has led to a rush to market for operators as well focusing on what's available now what can they what can they get to market as quick as possible and like some of those some of those sites are in are being selected in less than sustainable grits but you know what I mean there's unprecedented demand right now and those sites will perform well hopefully there's as many other strategies as they can to increase the efficiency and and reduce the overall impact I mean that's really that's really a challenge that we're seeing right now and I would just add on to the the tenant perspective in speaking with our clients and really trying to understand like what's driving these decisions to focus on sustainability one thing that has come up over and over again is it's not just them and your client that you should be focused on it's your clients clients and your clients clients clients they all have these goals they all have these metrics that they're that they're pursuing when they're pitching on business they're including ESG and how their organization pairs up with their competitors right so again it goes it goes beyond just the pure financials of of the projects and the deals that we're currently working on and goes into I mean really the the overall operation of of their company sometimes it has to do with their financing sometimes it has to do with winning new business right but I mean the more you look at it there's there's a significant network effect to these requirements when one company when one company implements these the sustainability goals it can drive many other companies to adopt those same strategies excellent Michael thank you very much and gentlemen I'll bet you didn't know that we've already talked for 42 minutes so we're gonna we're gonna move through the next two questions a little quicker but I definitely want to get to those excuse me and we may end up going a little bit over and that's okay so next question when it comes to business case development how can operators link it back to overall customer need net zero ambitions and carbon reporting I'm gonna start with Pete on this one yeah I'll be I'll try to be as brief as possible but it's a good good question nonetheless um I think he's um it's really about knowing your customer and really understanding what they really require um we've worked with a data center provider who's who's really trying to link up with their larger customers who are for a long-term sustainable sourcing of renewable energy for example so it's looking into that I think there's a lot of talk about scope one scope two and scope three and everybody is scope three of somebody at some stage and so it's making sure you are aligned to to your to your customers and ultimately that's how that then filters into the business case but ultimately if you get your business case right and you can show there's a customer demand for it and a customer requirement for it and you can identify that and show that and then that should be able to you know create a really good solid structure to any business case because there's a need and I think it's a line into those needs but understanding and identifying those needs and being able to articulate that awesome thank you Pete Raymond yeah um you know I'm thinking my mind immediately jumped to when you said operations uh acceptance of new technology new directives and new goals and training of those folks on the on the ground level is something I've been focusing on a lot more lately as I find the higher ups and and the business may make decisions on how to embrace sustainability and ESG but then getting it to water down to the local level and actually getting those gentlemen to embrace it and to see the value and to do it on a day-to-day basis I think is actually an important conversation to have so not exactly answering your question but I think from an operational level on the on the local level at the bottom level we need to spend time educating and empowering those guys because they're the ones that I actually have to make the changes in their day-to-day routines and lines to impact and to integrate these these sustainability metrics right so whether that's running new reports or doing new activities or new methods of procedure etc so I think that's important to to get the low level the the I would say low level but the boots on the ground bought into this and trained up very good Raymond thank you to Francois yeah I mean when you when you look at the data center operators and the way they sell to the customer on the large basis it's rental plus energy right the rental market the rental piece is fairly I would say consolidated and mature the energy piece is more interesting because it's always a pass through back to back to the customers and with what happened in the energy market especially here in Europe where conventional energy has gone up to 100 and 100 of euro per megawatt hours it has created an interesting dynamic on the energy side because you make the business case for specific solution for on-site energy or renewable energy a lot more interesting to customer actually and so where the he didn't used to be such a differentiator it is starting to be and it will be more and more and especially now that also with a grid infrastructure being a bit constrained you seeing site with no guarantee of supply 100% of the time so what do you do then and then you can start having interesting a solution on the energy side so I could spend hours on that but really I see the future where you can work a lot on the energy part of the equation I feel like we probably should spend hours on that at some point but unfortunately we're going to move along Michael your thoughts yeah so I mean for the business cases sustainability can't you can't stress enough how important it is right now I think there's a little bit more weight that's put on financial decisions because of what's going on in the overall economy there are challenges there but at the same time when operators are implementing business cases now you're not talking about the next six months the next 12 months you're talking about the next five years if you wait for us to get through the current economic turmoil quite frankly it will be too late to start implementing those strategies these things take time there's a lot of capital involved so I mean those those that will succeed here and and really start creating some competitive advantages are already working on it and they've been working on it for years so it's it's not so much it's not it's not a want it's a need it's a question of how how quickly are you going to lean into sustainability as an argument for your business case very good and Jason to put a button on this question no I think ultimately you know not having these capabilities as part of the business case really just as a non starter right so it's it's got to be there otherwise the opportunity cost you're not going to have any customers left right because ultimately I think it will you know be a requirement but I think to Michael's point as well it's you know the the power capabilities and just the demand cycle is in this weird state where you know right now if you can go work with the with the local or state government that has you know good power capacity and has a good road map it's just easier to get things done and easier to move faster and we're starting to see you know a lot of shifting workloads out of traditional tier one locations in the US to you know these tertiary secondary markets that continue to be you know some of the fastest growing markets in the world now so you know things are definitely changing but the focus has to be on these or you just can't you won't be able to compete in the market excellent Jason thank you very much for that all right guys we're gonna we're gonna jump to the speed dating round of the round table today I'll give you each 30 seconds to answer this question let's look at some fun here um what will sustainability sustainability's role be in the competitive landscape and so um by by talking about sustainability as a key differentiator what will sustainability's role be in the competitive landscape and Jason will just kick it back over to you I mean you're already seeing it it's it's the you know what's the magic quadrant now of your sustainability capabilities as a data center operator so it's already starting to happen and and you know the transparency is rising for sure which I think is a great thing to help the competitive dynamics and making sure that we can continue to stay relevant but also the competitive dynamics help to make sure that we you know continue to innovate and stay relevant with our customer base awesome Jason thank you Raymond yeah I mean I think Jason nailed it on the head here you can't be competitive if you're not already frankly and I think Michael hit it on the head if you haven't been working on this and you're already not actively doing projects and taking steps you're going to lose uh outmarket share pretty quick so obviously I think at this stage of the game you need to be uh promoting your plans and your visions for how sustainability is going to be integrated and you need to be very transparent about the challenges right and then I think at that at the end of the day it's a lot easier conversation when you're promoting where you want to go being transparent about the challenges and then you can have more of a collaborative connection with your customers hopefully aligning with all the the larger the logos out there that are our clients clients right and what they want excellent thank you Raymond Michael yeah I'm gonna reiterate a couple points I made earlier like vacancy rate is already higher and in older facilities that are less efficient that will continue to be this the case I mean if we if we see energy costs continue to increase like they have the benefits of locating it in a more sustainable site will only become more pronounced so I know this is a trend it's it's going to continue and it's it's it's really a need for operators to stay relevant and competitive thank you very much Francois yeah I'll repeat myself from the beginning I think sustainability is a license to operate and is a license to grow I mean you won't be able to and I'm repeating what you a lot of just said is you're not going to be able to to expand your business without sustainability and the bar will be rising the legislation and the jurisdiction and the customer expectation and the citizen expectation will always continue to rise look at the latest at german law where you need to use pu etc there's just a start it will get stricter and stricter and so you better start early and be the first mover very good and Pete final word yeah I think he's been said it's a it's a ticket to the game if it's if it's done right and well in the future it will be definitely a ticket to the game it's done right now it might give you some some advantage and but ultimately if you're not on top of it and you're not doing it right and you you know the word greenwashing is there's not been used too much but it should be used a lot you know if you cut a corner here and there you will be found out because your competitors are going to be doing a better job than you and then to the point in front of us so you know regulation will come and get you because you get tighter and tighter as the years go on so uh so yeah you better be doing it right and it will uh because ultimately it will be a uh a norm over time very good Pete thank you very much and thank you to all of our speakers for your insights on this very important topic today I was tuning in if you enjoyed today's roundtable please keep an eye out for greener data volume two one day 2024 and in the meantime visit greener data dot net for sustainability content and resources for our next roundtable on december 7th at 1 p.m eastern we will be joined by telecom ramblings editor rob powell we love rob over here uh to moderate a panel on the topic new year predictions for infrastructure and sustainability and that my friends is a wrap a look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon to jc tv and jc podcast on youtube itunes i heart spotify and more in the meantime please join the panelist and i back in the networking lounge and happy networking


Good afternoon, everybody. It's Wednesday afternoon and just wanted to give you another update on the work here at the Burlington Emergency Operations Center. Thanks to Lowdown a little bit today. This is our first day in this new posture of as many city employees as possible working from home. Seems like that went pretty smoothly. We haven't had a lot of reports or problems. We're also starting to work out the logistics of how in this new posture where we're trying to keep people from coming into the public buildings as little as possible, how we're going to have a city council meeting next Monday. We haven't worked out all the details on that yet, but we think through technology, we're going to be able to find a way where both the counselors and participants who want to participate in the public forum can call in online. And there will be an in-person option as well. We think we're still working out the details. Stay tuned for that if that's something you're interested in. Because we have kind of gotten through that big push to get into this new phase, we have started turning really felt like today we started to turn our attention to the next phase of work. Here's a few examples of that. So this was the first day of the schools. Of course, we're also closed today and there were meals distributed in many locations around the city, both by the schools team and then our own parks recreational waterfront team had six locations set up in different housing sites. And for everything we've heard, a lot of meals got delivered and that system seems to be remarkably quickly often really working. We were starting to run out of hand sanitizer for cleaning of various city buildings and equipment that need to be used and we found a good solution to that. There's a local distillery that has repurposed some of its alcohol into hand sanitizer. And so we've been able to restock that. There are other resupply issues that we're working through. Good news today from the federal government is a big push is going into creating a lot of new masks quickly, which if that gets going well that will head off any future problem about that kind of equipment. The child care plan that was announced by the governor this morning, a bunch of people working on that, that could be an important part of the whole emergency response is making sure that people who are needed for the health public health response are able to have care of their children. That is a longer term project and there's work happening on that still. We had a call today with a lot of Burlington businesses at one o'clock, many of whom are facing this sudden really major economic change that is a problem for the business and there's of course a problem for many of their employees who they are no longer able to pay. There have been layoffs. There could be more layoffs in the days ahead. The city is putting a major effort led by Luke McGowan at the Community Economic Development Office to figure out all of the assistance that is going to be marshaled to try to help the impacted businesses through and their employees, their workers through this and there will be much more on this in the days to come. We did see that the U.S. Senate passed a big package today so things are getting help is coming and it's getting a lot clearer and we'll be pushing out information on that as soon as we can. Last thing I wanted to just I just want to close again with a note about social distancing. It is such a key part of this effort and how we're going to keep this virus from spreading out of control. The Surgeon General said something today that was interesting.  You should and I thought that was sort of an interesting way to think about it that you should actually kind of internalize that and think about if you were carrying the virus which you may be because we have not tested. There are many people we believe have the virus that haven't been tested for and people don't know. If you have that in your mind as you're going about your day and thinking about you yourself not spreading it, if all of us do that, that will have a positive impact in slowing this thing down. If we can really make a push for that for the next two weeks that really could have an impact on the trajectory of this thing and an impact on how long we need to be in this really unaccustomed posture of trying to stay six feet apart and slowing down so much of the way our society works. That's what I got for you today. I hope everyone's doing well and staying healthy out there. We'll check in again with you soon. Thanks.


My fellow Americans, ever since our Commission on Excellence in Education came forth with its findings, you, the tax-paying citizens of this country, have been treated to a noisy debate about what to do. First, the Commission report made the point that, on the average, educational quality had deteriorated in recent years. Now make sure you remember that term on the average. Admittedly, there are schools, school districts, and even some parts of individual schools that have managed to maintain a high level of quality. Even the Commission pointed out a number of remedies which, if employed, would bring the average level up to the standard our children are entitled to. Many of the remedies would call for no increase in spending. Some admittedly would shift funding from less important things to things of greater educational value, and here and there there might be a need for more money. Basically, however, the Commission's thrust was one of making better use of resources we already have. All of what I've just pointed out was lost, however, in an explosion of voices. There were special interest voices that saw a chance to get more money for their particular cause. There were political voices that saw a campaign horse to ride. And there was demagoguery to help raise the noise level. In making the report public and discussing the matter of education cost, I was accused of being, quote, grotesquely inaccurate and outrageous, unquote. This seems to have been prompted by a statement that more was being spent on education than on national defense. I can only explain their hysteria by assuming that they were comparing federal spending on education to federal spending on defense.  The federal government bears overwhelming responsibility for national defense. But it provides less than 10% of all education costs, which are and always have been a responsibility of the state and local governments. Since this hassle won't die down in 15 minutes, I thought you might like some real figures from the U.S. Department of Education. In the 82-83 school year, government at all levels spent $215.3 billion on education. The 1983 defense spending is $214.8 billion. Actually, that $215 billion for education doesn't include Department of Defense spending for remedial education or private corporation spending on employee education, all of which is estimated to be about $30 billion or more, nor does it include what parents spend on books, et cetera. One of the noisemakers wants the federal government to add $11 billion to federal education spending. Another demands $14 billion, and most of them accuses of whacking the budget down to a starvation level. The facts are the federal budget for education in 1980 was $14.1 billion. In 1981, which was still not our budget, it was $14.8 billion. Our first appropriation, the one for 1982, held the level for education at $14.8 billion, the same as in 1981. This year, we'll spend about $15.3 billion. Now, these are a lot of figures to absorb when you can only hear them and not see them. Let me see if I can simplify things. The cost per pupil has nearly doubled of 183.2 percent in 10 years. In the same 10 years, the number of pupils has dropped by 14 percent. Some distinguished members of Congress, I'll be kind and not name them, took me on for pointing out that the decline in educational quality seems to have begun shortly after the federal government started providing that less than 10 percent of the funding. What I had in mind was that the federal government began regulating and kibitzing a lot more than 10 percent, and maybe that contributed to the decline. Now, hang on, I have to resort to some numbers again. The federal funding boom began in 1960. The teacher-pupil ratio went from one teacher to 26 pupils, then to one teacher to 19 pupils in 1980. But the scholastic aptitude test scores of college-bound high school graduates dropped in that same period from 975 to 890. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but at least it raises a question as to whether more money is the, well, dare I use the term, quick fix for poor quality education. Already a great many educators and school boards and governors and state legislators who've read the commission's report are enthusiastically moving to implement it. The commission urged that we return to basics as requirements for a high school diploma. Four years of required English increased the number of years of required mathematics and science. Eliminate some of the frill, the snap courses so tempting to students when there are few, if any, compulsory courses. Make history a required course and the same for languages for the college-bound. Require more homework. These were a few of the commission's recommendations. Yes, they talked of something that could translate into more money, better pay for better teachers to attract the brightest and the best to choose teaching as a career. Do what is done in every other profession and business. Offer merit pay raises for those who earn and deserve them. The commission gave us a course to follow. It leads to better education for our sons and daughters. Let's ignore the noisemakers and set sail. Thanks for listening and God bless you. Saturday, June 25th is a special day for Germany and America. In the city of Krefeld on the shore of the Rhine, Vice President Bush represented all Americans at an historic celebration. It was from Krefeld that 300 years ago, the first German immigrants left for America. Those 13 Mennonite families came in search of religious freedom. They landed in Philadelphia and founded Germantown, Pennsylvania. From that moment on, Germany has contributed much to our way of life. Today, about one in four Americans or some 50 million of us claim at least partial German ancestry. What is this meant to America? The Conestoga Wagon, the Kentucky Rifle, Blue Jeans, the Brooklyn Bridge, and Snoopy. The first airtight tin can and many of our favorite beers. Dwight David Eisenhower and Werner von Braun, Chrysler Automobiles and Boeing Aircraft. German farmers introduced winter wheat to our Middle West and no Americans should forget that at Valley Forge, General von Stuben, a German volunteer turned George Washington's demoralized troops into a disciplined fighting force capable of winning our struggle for independence. Some of our most brilliant writers, like John Steinbeck and H. L. Menken, athletes such as Babe Ruth and Johnny Weismiller, inventors like Charles Steinmetz and George Westinghouse, statesmen such as Carl Scherz and George Schultz, our current Secretary of State, share German descent. For 300 years, Germans have helped to build America, but America has given as well as received. After the Second World War, when Germany lay defeated, America gave material help through the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift. Just as significant, if not more, we provided the inspiration to develop free institutions from the ruins of totalitarianism. Today, the Federal Republic is a bulwark of democracy in the heart of a divided Europe. It enjoys prosperity undreamt of in 1945 and its political system is stable and strong. West Germans and Americans are rightfully proud of our common values as well as our shared heritage. Today, we stand shoulder to shoulder in the NATO Alliance, defending freedom and preserving the peace. For three decades, the German-American partnership has been a linchpin of the Alliance. Thanks to it, a whole generation has grown up in Western Europe, free from the ravages of war and spared from the repression suffered by Europeans to the East. But with freedom comes responsibility, not least the responsibility to look beyond simplistic slogans to the truth on vital matters like security and arms reductions. I hope the younger generation, both in Germany and in America, will honestly consider all that we're doing to deter and to reduce the risks of war. In the face of a large Soviet military buildup of both conventional and nuclear weapons, the United States, the Federal Republic of Germany and our European allies have agreed to modernize our aging forces to assure an effective deterrent. At the same time, in hopes of averting the large expenditure to modernize weapons, we're making a serious effort to negotiate major and effectively verifiable reductions of Soviet and American nuclear forces to lower and more stable levels. In Geneva, we've made far-reaching proposals to reduce nuclear arsenals and to build trust. We have proposed the global elimination of the entire class of intermediate-range land-based missiles and expressed our willingness to agree to any proposal, equalizing the number of warheads on such U.S. and Soviet missiles. In the Strategic Arms Reduction Talks, which we call START, I have within the last two weeks issued new instructions incorporating the recommendations of the Bipartisan Scowcroft Commission and giving our negotiators greater flexibility in their task. The young people of Germany and the United States should not doubt our dedication to maintaining the peace. We share with them the dream that someday the time will come when no nuclear weapons will exist anywhere on Earth. The ideals shared by our peoples, the desire for freedom and peace, bind the United States and the Federal Republic of Germany in so many ways. Building on this, we've launched a joint effort to provide more contacts between our nations and generations. In our country, 22 federal departments and agencies are participating in this effort. Plans range from traditional exchanges to an airlift program, which will bring German heart patients to one of our outstanding hospitals for bypass surgery and train more German doctors to perform these life-saving operations. This fall, a German will fly in NASA's Space Shuttle, the first foreigner to do so. Together, Germans and Americans will watch the flight's progress on their television screens, all praying for a successful mission and safe landing. Germans and Americans of German descent can take special pride in their ancestry, but all Americans have benefited from the contributions which German Americans have made to our country, and we should all participate in honoring this heritage. Thank you and God bless you.


Dear student, the experiment which we are going to perform today is regarding the extractions of lipids. So before we start our experiment, I would like to give you a brief introduction regarding this experiment. So if we look at our food, so we come to know that our food is basically divided into three major components. One is carbohydrate, second one is protein and third one is lipids. Carbohydrate is a quick source of energy and the metabolism of carbohydrate is quite fast. And in almost every food, there is the major component carbohydrate is present. As far as the protein is concerned, the major source of protein is meat. Most of the time we get protein from meat. And the third major component of our food is lipids. As far as the metabolism of lipids are concerned, they are very slow. Before I start our experiment, let me introduce with the apparatus and chemical which we will use in this experiment.  So let's begin with the experiment. In the very first step of this experiment, we will take cashew nuts and with the help of pestle and mortar, we will grind them well. Keep in mind that the cashew nuts should be grinded very well. Once they are grinded, then we will transfer the powder form of these nuts into 250 ml flasks. Now the nuts has been grinded quite well. Now we will transfer these nuts into the flask. Now we will add with the help of glass pipette 20 ml of methanol in this flask and 10 ml of chloroform, 20 ml of methanol. Now we will add 10 ml of chloroform in the same flask. Now after adding chloroform and methanol, we will shake the flask for at least 30 seconds so that the mixture becomes completely homogenized. After shaking it well for 30 seconds, we will place this flask for 30 minutes for the proper mixing and breakdown of nuts. Now we will wait for 30 minutes for the proper homogenization of solution. As the 30 minutes time has been over, now we will add 5 ml of NaCl solution and again 10 ml of methanol into the flask. Here we are taking 5 ml of NaCl solution. Now in the same flask, we will add 10 ml of methanol. Again we will shake the whole material for at least 30 seconds and again put it for 30 minutes for the proper homogenization and breakdown of the cashew nuts. So students as we have added NaCl and methanol once again, again we will shake the flask for 30 seconds and incubate it on room temperature for 30 minutes. After shaking it well, now we will put this flask for 30 minute room temperature incubation. So students now we will filter this whole solution with the help of a filter paper. We have settled the assembly already. We will put a beaker under the key so that we can collect the filtrate. Now very gently we will add the whole solution in this filter paper. Now we will wait for the completion of filtration process. So students as the filtration process has been completed, now we will shift our filtrate into 100 ml glass mering cylinder. Now we will simply put the cylinder for at least one hour and we will wait for the formation of two different layers. So after an hour you can see the formation of two different layers. We will collect the upper layer of the solution and will pour into different petri plates with the help of glass pipette. Half of the solvent we will pour in petri plate 1. Avoid mixing of these layers while pipetting out the upper layer from the cylinder. After pouring the upper layer into different petri plates now we will incubate these petri plates at 40 degree centigrade for one hour in incubator. Now we will incubate our petri plates at 40 degree centigrade for one hour. Incubation time has been over so now we will take our petri plates out of the incubator and will observe the results. So here students you can see a transparent gel like material which is our extracted lipids. So students this is how you can extract lipids from a food source. Thank you.


Just looking ahead, what are some of the things you want to do to what was your view of the synchronization with the passing part of the offense? Running game, we saw that, passing game, saw some of that too, but are there some things there that you saw that we might want to look out for moving on down the road?  But there's always, you know, critical lessons learned whether you win the game or you lose the game, and that's certainly our approach. That's pretty much the best way I can answer that for you. What do you think Santina is going to potentially have three new starters on the offensive line? Does that change anything in how you guys approach things defensively? Well, I mean, every week there's matchups, you know, you're looking at it, both teams, you know, they spend a lot of time studying and where you think you can get advantage in our vice versa.  I've spoken a couple of times over the course of the last, early part of this week, about this team having the right mindset. That was something that you said a couple of times. How can this team indicate that to you this week, showing you that right mindset? Yeah, it's how you approach every day, you know, and so you come in there and you talk about learning from mistakes, and I think you're always going to have the right mindset. Obviously, when you need to take the emotion out of it clearly, and then you look at it and you try to look at it very objectively as best you can, and you've got to be very critical of yourself. I don't know, I've always said it a million times and it's not to be a martyr or some, you know, line you're supposed to say, but that's what you're supposed to do as a head coach. And so you look at every game and the whole climb is can we improve? Can you adapt and understand some issues? Again, you can get away with certain things. It may not cost you then, but if you're not being critical and objective, it'll come back to you at some point. So that's kind of how you approach your approach every day. You need to be consistent and taking that. And not all of a sudden, think you got all the answers if you if you win and certainly not act like a victim if you lose and that, you know, you're hopeless. And that kind of carries over to life, too. Is it fair to say that, like, kind of the first couple weeks of the season feel more like preseason just for you guys, since the whole team doesn't really play? And then maybe it's better week four? No, I don't necessarily look at it like that. I mean, you can make a great argument for certain teams and this or that. But I don't think that's look at it as a preseason. I think there's a lot. There's an evolution that happens. It's 17 games, the long season, 16 long, you know, people used to famously say four quarters and whatever. I mean, things can change in a heartbeat for you. Adapt injuries that can have a ripple effect on the personnel and where you got to play guys. As long as I'm in this and you really study the teams have been very successful, the ones that keep improving and climbing as the year goes on. So sometimes in September, things may be working for you this way, but if you don't stay top and evolve, they'll catch up to you because you'll get stale. I want to go back to Sunday for a minute, like a lot of the two back stuff you bring. How much of that was altered because Damien was hurt when you're using Keith and Parker maybe in certain situations? Were those maybe situations you would have used Cordero and Damien together? Yeah, I don't mind you asking. I appreciate the questions, like I said, but I'm not going to get into the scheme. In the second half, does that come down to play calling? What is that kind of mental lapses? There's a lot of variables. You go through the game and what will never change is if you've got to take advantage of situational football. There's a reason it's four quarters. It's NFL. The reason most of these games come down to one possession, one way or another. There's a lot of good players, a lot of good coaches. You've got opportunities, nobody's making a mistake on purpose, but you don't capitalize on the red zone. It usually comes back. You look at red zone, certainly you can look at third down into half in the games. That's why you've got to stay dialed in. If you want to go back to look at Sunday, like you said, the easy narrative is to blame one play that's never played a ghost. There's a cause and effect to everything that can lead to these situations. You go back and you need to make sure you win situational football. That being said, when you do roll back the team on Sunday, what are things that you see specifically, whether it's stuff that you can do better, the players executing on the field better, what are those things that you guys want to do better, late games? Well, it's the whole game. That's essentially where it can catch up to you.  That can hurt you. I thought we did a decent job at the end of the half. We're able to handle that situation, and then you get a... They're going to change only quick. You get down in the third quarter. Again, you got a chance down there. More so, we turn the ball over. We get down there again. We don't capitalize. We settle for three. Those usually add up. Now you get into the fourth quarter. It comes down to play here or there.  You got to give an Orleans credit, too. I got good players over there. Someone came down to one-on-one, they made a play.  We still got issues and details you got to clean up, regardless of the outcome of the game. And that's the hardest thing, and then where you got to stay disciplined to look at that, to be objective, excuse me. So that's really what it comes down to. You know, the sensationalist, again, emotional things. You want to blame one call, you want to blame one play. There's always things that we can do to improve. And if you take hard lessons that can be painful and you learn from them and improve, it will be much better for it. And that's what you've got to, that's the challenge every day. The worst thing you can do is to feel like you're a victim and blame somebody, blame this circumstance, blame that. We're not going to do that. We always look objectively and see what we can improve to get better. And that's why you kind of love the cycle of the week, because now here and there we need to get ready to play the Rams who are a great football team, football coach, and they've got a lot of good players. Kind of a thoughtful question. When it comes to coaching, is it easier to coach, when you have a decent lead, or is it easier to coach when you're coming from behind? There's challenges, either way.  It's the most competitive league to me and all professional sports. And it's a fun game to dissect, because I've got all the answers or, you know, you think you've got something figured out, even as a coach. And the other side, as I say, adapt. And as you look through it, that's what makes it fun. But again, we'll go back to being objective whether we want or lose. I don't think there's... I don't ever look at something easy or hard. It's a... I said this the other day, like I do, and I wake up and it's a privilege to be able to coach in the national football league and to be able to go out and compete against the best. Not to keep carving on Saturday, but when you go back to New York offensively, you're talking about it now with the red zone issues and then step on third down. Is there one thing that particularly bothered you? It bothers you. I don't think there's issues. I mean, things happen, right? Nobody intentionally wants to turn the ball over. Nobody, you know, whatever misses something here or there. Like I said, a lot of things that the other team has to say on it, right? There's things we can improve and you've got to be objective on the other side, too. They have a say and they give credit to them. There's always things that you look at. The situation, if you've done this or that, yeah, I think that's normal regardless of the outcome. So there's not one particular thing that bothered me.   You don't want to sit there and make excuses and that's why I'm trying to be careful because you don't want to sound like, oh, you're patting yourself because we don't know what the end result was, but there was. I thought we were pretty effective moving the football. I thought he made some really good decisions for us. So it was good to see. You know, we hadn't started a game. I started one game, I think in the last two and a half years, give or take. He was dialed in and he was ready to go. Made some big time throws when we needed him and certainly made some plays with his legs and there's a lot of things we ask him to do with the line of scrimmage. Arthur, you hear a lot about coaching trees in the NFL. You have a few degrees removed from Sean McBae. What is it like? Do you see similarities first of all and you watch what they're doing for those of us that can't identify steam right away between what you guys are trying to do and what they didn't know? I think it's like when people settle in certain places and kind of migrate. In other words, you start to evolve and you kind of create your own culture and it happens all over the league. And I mean, you look at the history of this game where people were coaching with Paul Brown and they broke off. You know, you trace it back to Paul Brown and Bill Walsh and everybody from there said, Gilman, you know, you can go a lot of different ways with it but a lot of coaches, I mean, once you're in the NFL and if you have success, you're going to cross paths with people. I've got a ton of respect for Sean. I've never worked with him, know him decently well but that is kind of easy when people say, oh, this is like that. It's usually not the case. Like everybody in the league has some kind of zone run.  Most coaches I've been with, they use every experience and what they like, they don't and that's kind of how it naturally just kind of migrates. That makes sense. Yeah, no, definitely. But just a follow-up, I think, you were on his podcast or you were on the same podcast last year and he said he'd been copying your plays in Tennessee for years. One, have you ever seen that happen? Like, hey, that's one of mine. What do you do? Is he somebody that you watch for ideas that his, you know, the system they have out there, is that something that you do try to draw from what other coaches are doing? Yeah, I did that one, the podcast with him and Peter Schrager. Yeah. I think a lot of people, I mean, it's just so much easier to watch, to access film. I think back in, not to get you too nostalgic here, but, you know, one of the eight millimeter films or, you know, you have the stories of people cutting things out of films. The owner couldn't see it and then you had the, you know, the tape was delivered Sunday morning and you didn't even add all the tapes and now everything, I mean, you can subscribe online and watch everybody's tape. We all have access to it from a library. So I think it's, and then there's so much data that's poured into it now. When the original aquatic controls, like that was a very time-consuming, you know, you're taking the sheet and you're typing in first and 10 because I'm glad I did all that because it does teach as you slow down and you break it down. Now they have all these other secondary outsources and they can pour data in and you can search for certain things and the one thing about football, you always got to take it with a grain of salt because unless you're in those meeting rooms, you may see a play that's similar, but you may teach it differently. You may teach the read differently. Well, yeah, you run this play, I run it, but I may have evolved to teach it so it's so much easier to watch it. A lot of people, they get the, let me get the touchdowns around the league. I can go in my office right now and it'll take me about three seconds to pull up all the touchdowns from week one. That used to be a way more of a challenge. You may try to see a highlight you see on the old news, sports center, whatever it was, try to get copy of the tape, how it's all right at your fingertip. So I think you see a lot of people, they do see more plays that come across your desk. Good idea is I see them in college too. When you get in the spring, I think that's, most coaches, I know it's a very long answer, but there's a lot of context to it. You end up seeing a lot of crossover, more than you really would have, certainly 20 years ago. What challenges that ran as defense with Aaron Domino for you guys on Sunday? You just kind of said it. He's a great player, probably one of the most dominant players in the last decade in this league. We got a ton of respect for him, but there's a challenge every week. It's what makes it fun. Our guys are excited about the challenge. I was going to ask about the offensive line and that challenge obviously is a big one, but what did you like from them on Sunday? They kind of took a leap forward, at least from an outsider's perspective. What did you like about that? There's a lot to like. Again, perspective, it was one game and challenges, can we get better and can we have more success or do it again? It's a different scheme that we'll see on Sunday, different players. So, yeah, there was a lot that you liked out of it. In the day, we got to make one more play. That's what it came down to, but there's a lot of positives there. What could look so difficult, I guess, for our opposing defense to deal with? I think what he does a pretty good job of is he knows how to feel the voids in the zones and what they ask him to do. Some guys, they got that feel called choice routes where he's got three options on a route, drop back, and he's going to go where you're not. By the man, he knows how to get open, knows how to very crafty leverage, and so that can make him difficult. So, when you get players like that, guys historically can work in the slot, they can take advantage, but it's as simple as they're going to be where you're not. He knows enough, he's very smart, that's what you can tell about instinct and he knows where to find those voids and understanding the coverages. And that happens over time. There's been some really good players in that kind of role. You think of Heinz Ward and what he did in Pittsburgh in the 2000s and those kind of inside the numbers routes, West Welker, certainly. Been a lot of good players. I could keep going on and on, but Cup certainly has that feel. And that's a credit to him. A receiver or an offense to have when you have a guy that, like you said, you figure out where the defense isn't because not every receiver can. A lot of times you won't ask guys to do that. There's guys you do and you do and that's what makes those guys special. It doesn't mean there's not other great players that may not run those routes, but there's certainly a lot of ways to be productive in this league, but that's one that just jumps out at you. The different veteran plan that y'all had him on over the course of the offseason and preseason and then for him to come out what does that say about, I guess, his conviction to do the work on his own instead of being, like, constantly having to perform in training camp in the preseason. Does that make sense? Well, he preps really hard in preseason. It's like a lot of players. They all got to get ready to go. It's a tough game and you got to put the work in. You can't get the steps. So when you kind of modify things to certain players because of where they're working again, and we try to make sure where as diligent as possible, we got a plan for everybody. Nobody's sitting around in a bucket hat with a script pretending to be a coach. They're working. When their team is working, they're working. And you can modify things and that's a credit to our sports performance staff and everybody as we go through it and we try to do what's best for the player. But like all our guys, we're working into that program. I wonder if Bobby Wagner had to their defense. Yeah, he's got intelligence, obviously instinct. They're a very productive player. Similar to DeMario, you know, they're not the first time they've seen most of the stuff we throw at him. Got great experience, tough. Makes plays all over the tape. Got a lot of respect for him as well. How unusual is it for you? You've been around a lot of football. You seem to be looking better as he ages, especially at his age now. I mean it looked like he was like 21 out there on Saturday. A bottle of hope is one. Is that what you're saying? It's a challenge, right? Maybe I can find some of that myself. So when I age, I can look younger. Certainly that's trending around society. No, it's just, you know, you try to it's a credit to C.P. and the work he's put in. We just got to keep trying to push and put our players in the right spots to have success.


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to be that I mask the most when I meet people on the instance. You know, just maybe the first five, ten minutes of talking. If it goes further than that, I tend to drop the mask a little bit. I tend to talk about autism. I tend to stim a little bit more. You know, it's all about my own personal way of masking socially.


I think this is a chance for one thing to get out of that damn congressional win that they will win. So that's all on the two sides at the moment. There are two or three other subjects that they're going into. They're going into things like the chain of command, whether we have too many commitments. None's article this morning that we have too many commitments. And we should trim our strategy to fit our resources, which is of course quite impossible. We've got to set our strategy to fit the threat, not our resources. But all of them... I think we're going to get our portrayal on that. Thank you Mr. President. This is the first meeting, as you mentioned. And we're looking forward to this council handling a wide range of policy initiatives. One of the things that will characterize the work of the council is its versatility, since we deal with everything from federalism to management and administration, energy, environment, natural resources, health, education, public assistance, privatization, regulatory reform, legal issues. So there will be a lot of things that will be coming our way for this council. Today, our specific topic that we're dealing with is a management and administration issue. And it has to do with the follow-on. If you remember, we had a meeting of the Cabinet Council on Management and Administration with you in which we talked about a number of management initiatives. Today, legislative purposes. And Joe Wright has a presentation to make which will describe the legislation we proposed to be set up. This was probably the most massive management legislative package that's been developed, at least since the Hoover Commission in 1950. So I'll turn it over to Joe. Okay, go ahead. Okay Mr. President, this is a follow-up on the discussion that we had. If you remember the first part of the year, and at the front of the briefing books that we handed out, we stated that what you've done is ask the, at that time, the Cabinet Council on Management and Administration to go and come back and flush out what those legislative initiatives were, and come up with something that during the second term could be a very positive, disciplined approach that is institutionalized on improving management in the federal government.  It's something that you can relax. It's nice to have good news for a while at one of these sessions. This is a good news presentation, and I want to show you what the focus came up with. We're going to need the lights down a little bit. Thank you very much. Mr. President, just thanking the gentlemen for their support of the tax reform proposal, and some of them have already tested by this morning as we discussed in the leadership meeting. I've just gotten to the point that I was going to tell them that we were, as we discussed in the meeting with the Republican Congressional leadership this morning, we're pleased with the initial response we received to the proposal. We're pleased with the launch. We're particularly pleased with the fact that we think we've got pretty strong bipartisan support, and without it, we're not going to have tax reform. I don't think that we're naive in the sense of underestimating the magnitude of the job ahead, because it's going to be substantial, particularly as people isolate a particular provision and zero in on it, and we anticipate that there'll be a lot of that. Unlike some of the other initiatives that the President has undertaken, this isn't something that's going to move in a space of 30 to 60 days. Because of the magnitude of the job, there's going to be an extended period here where we go into a hearing process. The President's already been out on the road supporting the proposal, back out on the road this week, and we have a period there where there's a great deal of visibility and attention, and then we'll go into the hearing process. And then as we move out of the hearings and into Markup in September and October, we fully expect to see a substantial increase then in the visibility of the proposal. I think it's also a commentator, critics of planning. If you've got a provision you want to change, come on in and let us hear from you. Let's hear from you during the course of the legislative process. We're interested in keeping the maximum rate of an open and seeing that rise no higher than 35 percent, and we're interested in revenue and challenge. So if you're not going to add to what Jim has just said, I know that you've been up on a hill testifying, and I'd like to add my thanks for your coming down here. You know, it's probably time that maybe you haven't had time to study our tax reform proposal, but I'm sure you have familiarized yourself quite an extent with it. It isn't perfect, as Jim has said, but we believe that it'll work and that we can surpass it. And we also, I add to that having been out on the road for a few days in addition to the polls that we have seen, and the people obviously do support this, and I'll be on my way again tomorrow morning. We all know the shortcomings of the present system. It's unfair. It's a hindered technological investment. It impedes economic growth. It does all the things that we've been blaming it for. You supported our efforts in 81 when we reduced taxes, and while we didn't reverse the spending increase of government, at least we cut back on the rate of increase in spending, and certainly we reduced considerably the paperwork and the regulations that government was imposing on everyone. The results speak for themselves. Over 30 months now we've had the unprecedented growth in the economy. We've had more people, a higher percentage of the working pool employed than at any time in our previous history. Low inflation rates, interest rates falling, and all our trading partners and our allies, and even some of our unfriendly types out there are kind of envious of what we've done. And now thanks to your efforts, maybe we'll have an opportunity to finish the job of providing and securing economic good health for America. But there's an army of lobbyists. Maybe you saw some of them up there on the hill and special interests that are dug in and they're firing every weapon they own. But I think maybe you've shown them that there are loyal soldiers on the right side who can fire a few cellbos themselves. Together we can brighten the future for our children and our grandchildren. And I'm glad and proud that the American business community has statesmen like yourselves who are willing to come up here and do what you've done in support of this. And now, as I said, I'm supposed to leave you and turn you back over to Jim and to Don Reagan and discuss some other specific provisions that directly concern you. And again, I'll say thanks to you for coming down here. Thank you. Mr. President, some of the 1981 tax proposals which you just talked about are repealed in this new proposal. How do you justify that? Well, I think that that would simply mean that we did what we could in that particular time knowing that there was more really that should be done and this just shows that we're continuing to improve. How are you going to say, sir, that you must answer the problem? I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes I answer, sometimes I...