I can't think of a better way to destroy a beloved character or franchise than to treat its fans like garbage, and yet that's exactly what Hollywood has been doing for the last several years, slowly wrecking decades of goodwill in the process. Again and again, major film studios, TV networks, streaming services, and other kinds of publishers make it clear that they have a great deal of contempt for millions of Americans. People who they used to try to appeal to as prospective ticket or subscription purchasers are now looked at with disdain because of who they voted for or what they believe. Their money is no good, and anyone who creates content that appeals to them, even unintentionally, is seen as toxic, radioactive even, a traitor to all that is good and decent in the world. This increasingly extreme mentality has led to the creation of a large number of shows and movies that seem designed primarily, or at least partially, to shame and mock a large percentage of the population, rather than being designed to entertain and enlighten them with good, thoughtful stories. This has become all the more obvious over the course of the last couple years, and unfortunately I think this shift in the way most of Hollywood has treated its audience has had a fairly predictable effect. An awful lot of people are just done. Today, we're going to take a look at how the entertainment industry got taken over by moralizing bullies who arrogantly believe their job is to save the world, and what we might do about it on this episode of Out of Frame. I'll get to where I think this all went wrong in a few minutes, but I have to start with a bit of personal history. Although I spend most of my time making videos and running a creative team now, I actually started my professional life as a film composer, not a producer, and when I was in music school, I noticed a distinct difference between two different types of artists. Some, like me, wanted to create art for other people to enjoy and generally viewed their audience as a primary customer. For this group, art is not just a means of expression that's meant to be shared, understood, and appreciated by everyone. It's a means of making a living, but there was always another group that thought they were better than their audience. It was almost like they viewed them as enemies, uncultured rubes, barely a step above the financiers and benefactors paying for everything, who, of course, are the absolute worst.  I suppose you would too if you thought that exchanging money for your work was gross, but these two viewpoints lead to very different outcomes. The artists who think of their audience as customers tend to be decent entrepreneurs, deliberately crafting new creative works that other people might enjoy enough to be willing to pay for. Not surprisingly, those are usually the ones who have successful careers. On the other hand, my other classmates who scoffed at their audiences mostly became teachers and college professors or dropped out of the arts altogether. I can't think of any who actually found commercial success in their chosen medium. Another thing I've noticed is that the first group tends to be relatively well adjusted, grateful, and open to criticism. If a song or a video doesn't do as well as they'd hoped, they might be disappointed, but they'll also look at what they could have done differently and try again. They understand that it's not the audience that did something wrong. Besides, there's always another good idea, another opportunity, and it's a pretty good life being able to make a living creating art. At least that's my perspective. Conversely, I've often found that the second group blames the audience instead of themselves whenever their work doesn't land. The audience has no taste. They don't understand good art when they see it. They're the problem. In the end, this kind of thinking frequently becomes a clever excuse to justify creating non-commercial art. After all, it's not unpopular. It's pure. Thing is, for years, this attitude seemed to be limited to the most avant-garde artists, people creating the weirdest stuff that was never intended to be commercially successful. What's been surprising to see in the last few years, however, is how many people working in Hollywood seem to have adopted the same mentality, while still expecting to produce massive hits. When Peter Jackson was making The Fellowship of the Ring, he said something you'll rarely hear from a modern filmmaker. He said, We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages, or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyze what was important to Tolkien and to try to honor that. In a way, we were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves. Today, it seems like almost every filmmaker and studio that reboots or adapts a beloved work is desperate to modify it in ways that serve their own political narratives, regardless of whether or not their ideology fits with the story or how much they have to change the characters and plot to make it work. And when fans pan the project and refuse to support it, the creators lash out. It's almost like they revel in antagonizing the very people they need the most. Worse, they often act as if the only reason fans might be disappointed in their work is because they're toxic bigots. I guess if you think everyone who disagrees with your political views is evil, that would make sense. But is it actually true? Probably not. Undoubtedly, the internet can be a rough place, and a lot of fandoms aren't exactly very charitable or forgiving when they don't like something. But then, they're also extremely generous with praise when they love something. As a creator, if you're going to benefit from adoring fans when you make them happy, it's hardly fair for you to get mad at harsh criticism when you don't. But a lot of pros have way thinner skin than they should, and they have more power to frame the narrative in the press than any of their fans. And it's easy to make them look bad. Each time this scenario replays itself, entertainment media hunts down a handful of the worst tweets and social media comments and broadcasts them as if they're the norm, meanwhile ignoring substantive criticisms as if they don't exist. Take the fan reaction to Amazon's Rings of Power or Wheel of Time series, or to Netflix's version of Cowboy Bebop. Look at what people really took issue with versus what got the most attention. Also note what doesn't get much attention, how the creators themselves interact with the fans. When directors like Tycho Atiti, writers like Chuck Wendig, or actors like Brie Larson belittle their fans, they're not exactly doing themselves any favors. Rich, out-of-touch, blue checkmark celebrities punching down against nobodies on Twitter? Taking criticism isn't that hard, and if you're going to have a career in the arts, you should probably get used to it. Of course, when I've looked at these situations with a more cynical eye, I've often wondered whether or not a lot of this is simply a marketing tactic. I talked about this a bit in a previous episode, but increasingly it seems that every time a new movie or show comes out, part of the promotional strategy is to highlight some aspect of the story, characters, or meta-context that will spark controversial opinions online. I get it, buying ads is expensive, and the more anger you can incite on the internet, the more likely some of the earned media surrounding your film will go viral. It's a decent way to get some free publicity and take up space in people's heads, but I don't actually think it's all a matter of strategy. I think what we're seeing reflects a genuine shift in what entertainers believe about their role in society. Prior to the troubles of the last couple years, I often used to attend the South by Southwest Conference in Austin. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a massive multi-week event that brings together some of the top names in film, music, interactive media, and technology. As part of its amazing film festival, the event features panels and speakers from some of the most successful figures in the entertainment industry. Some of these sessions are technical, but the keynotes especially are often more about the individual's ideas and philosophies. Rogue One director Gareth Edwards gave one of my favorite talks, focused mostly on his love of Star Wars and his thoughts on storytelling. That was cool. What's less cool is how many of these keynotes end up being a soapbox for ideological rants. In 2017, transparent creator Jill Soloway gave a keynote that was essentially a lecture on gender identity politics. I was there. At one part of her talk she asked all the men in the room to stand up. We are going to use the power of PowerPoint to do a feeling body experiment, so I'm going to ask all of the men in the audience to stand up. I did. Just kind of getting your body men and just look at the slides and try to feel these things with me as I say them. She proceeded to show us images of boys and men, but narrated these images with statements that were meant to describe the way that women are raised in our society.  And they tell you you can be anything. You can dream about being anything and you wonder why they don't tell the girls they can be anything. Maybe because they already are everything. A little while later she asked the women to stand up and did a similar thing for them, showing them images of young girls and women while describing what she imagined men are told as they grow up. She starts by suggesting that boys and young men are praised for everything they ever do, from their ideas to climbing trees to throwing a football. As she progresses through the story she describes a world where men take up all the space in the world and even though men control everything and own everything, they need even more space in the form of man caves. Again, keep in mind that she's reversed gender roles here. I can't speak for everyone, but one thing I promise you I've never done is stand around with a bunch of dudes complaining about how hard it is to be a man. That would be excruciatingly boring, but okay. You can watch all this on YouTube, but to put it mildly, it was a very bizarre experience. Frankly, none of what she presented as the standard male experience was particularly familiar to me. In fact, most men and women I've shown this video to have said the same thing, but at the end of the talk, Soloway announced that her real mission was to advance what she called the topple principles, as in topple the patriarchy throughout the entertainment industry. The first of these principles is, our revolution must be intersectional. This is a demand that new film and TV projects be politically activist in nature, from an explicitly leftist intersectional feminist point of view. That's a perspective that sees virtually all of human interaction as a power struggle between different, sometimes intersecting identity groups, and which defines those groups by their comparative levels of privilege or oppression. This is deeply illogical, inherently divisive, and leads to severely flawed conclusions about the world, but that's a discussion for another time. It's just important to note that this is what a lot of people in the industry, like Jill Soloway, genuinely believe. Her list concludes with principles over product, meaning that the activist goals are more important than making money. And while it's true that this is all just one person's opinion, South by Southwest generally represents the leading edge of the industry, and there are a ton of sessions like this every year. Plus, there were thousands of other entertainment professionals in that hall with me, and the applause sent a pretty clear signal. Point is, people who have a massive influence on our culture have shifted away from caring about the craft of creating, entertaining, engaging movies and shows towards creating multi-million dollar PSAs, pushing a specific message. Everything from what stories are getting told, to who is allowed to work on the projects, to casting choices, to what's being distributed and promoted on major networks and streaming services is all being filtered through this ideological lens. Unfortunately, this approach has the tendency to absolutely wreck good storytelling, and that's without even getting into problems with tokenizing pre-existing characters, or making radical changes to serve the message. None of this is particularly surprising to me, by the way. Even back before 2010, when I lived in Los Angeles, you could see where a lot of the business was headed, and every friend I still have in the industry has dealt with these issues personally. Cancel culture and brutal enforcement of this new ideological orthodoxy has made everyone afraid. In a recent article, Peter Kiefer and Peter Savodnik wrote, We spoke to more than 25 writers, directors and producers, all of whom identify as liberal, and all of whom described a pervasive fear of running afoul of the new dogma. This was the case not just among the high command at companies like Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu, but at every level of production. How to survive the revolution? By becoming its most ardent supporter. Best way to defend yourself against the woke is to outwoke everyone, including the woke, one writer said. The article goes on to quote writer and director Mike White as saying, Everyone has gone so underground with their true feelings about things. White notes that any indication you're not on board can really have negative repercussions for you. For an industry that still has a complex about McCarthyism, they've created the same chilling environment, and it's had a pretty depressing effect on the quality of their output. But the question is, what can we do about it? One option is just to accept that this is the way things are now, and try to enjoy what you can and ignore everything else. But I suspect a lot of you aren't going to be happy with that. Another option is to take the same approach that people like Jill Soloway, who is now Joey Soloway, by the way, have pushed for the film industry. Just demand that all the content you consume supports your ideology, and treat all other perspectives with contempt. With the rise of alternate social media platforms like Gab, Parler, and Rumble, that's pretty easy to do. It already seems like a parallel economy is emerging, with people on the left and the right watching completely different shows, using different social networks, watching their own news, and cutting themselves off from interaction with anyone who has a different viewpoint. And while I think it's fair to say that this is a direct consequence of the activists in control of the entertainment industry and censorship on the major social media networks, I don't think this is a good thing. It's not healthy for a society to have huge sections of its population that don't share the same culture, information, values, and experiences. The less we have in common with each other, the easier it gets to dehumanize people in the other tribe. Friends become enemies, families, and relationships dissolve, and we end up with a world where people aren't even allowed to do business with the heretics who don't toe the line. Roger Ebert once said, We all are born with a certain package. We are who we are. Wherever we were born, who we were born as, how we were raised.  And the purpose of civilization and growth is to be able to reach out and empathize a little bit with other people. And for me, the movies are like a machine that generates empathy. This is what I love most about movies. But empathy isn't actually possible if truth is subjective and reality varies based on a person's intersectional identity. Empathy requires an objective shared reality.  We will never understand each other. And that leaves us with a cold, dark world that can't tolerate nuance or differences of opinion. But while I don't want to see every aspect of our society and economy split along political lines, it is true that the only thing that will ultimately make a difference is competition. More people need to break free from Hollywood's stranglehold on the production of new movies and TV shows and start making their own outside of that system. And ideally, they should do that by focusing less on lecturing their audience and more on telling engaging stories that are appealing to a wider range of people. Fortunately, the market will reward whoever figures out how to do that well. One of the most important and practical lessons I've learned after a lot of years working with economists and entrepreneurs is that the key to success in business is shockingly simple. You ready? Here it is. Find a way to create something a lot of other people want and figure out how to get it to them at a price they're willing to pay. Easier said than done, obviously, but that's really all there is to it. And it's just as true for artists as it is for plumbers and electricians. If you want to earn a great living or create a profitable business, your first priority has to be your customer. For most of its existence, the entertainment industry understood this. It was the best in the world at creating movies, TV shows, music, comics, and all kinds of content that hundreds of millions of people loved. The major studios and publishers dominated their competition because they were laser focused on making audiences happy by telling interesting stories. Somewhere along the way, the industry stopped caring about that, becoming more about promoting a political agenda than producing great content. And now, with so many great scripts and talented creators being boxed in by this restrictive ideology, there's enormous room for new entrepreneurs to take over. I have no idea who will get there first, but after decades of monolithic control by the gatekeepers in Hollywood, it's pretty exciting to see people making legitimate content outside that system. In a market economy, competition drives a tremendous amount of growth and change. And I think in this case, change is long overdue. And a special shout out goes to our associate producers. To Connor McGowan, Dan Rich, Matt Tabor, and Richard Lawrence, thank you. For everyone else, be sure to leave a comment, like this video, and subscribe to the channel. Join the continuing conversation on Discord, and follow us on all the social media. I'll see you next time.


I am going to call this meeting of the Montpelier Development Review Board to order. It is Monday, September 21st. And welcome. Thank you for being here wherever here is, Zimland. What I would like to do is start by going around and having DRB members introduce themselves. My name is Kate McCarthy. I chair the DRB. And I'll just say your name and you can introduce yourself. Please unmute before you do. Starting with Jean. Hello. Jean Leon, DRB. And Roger. Roger Kranz, DRB. Abby. Hi, everyone. Abby White, the newest member of the DRB. Welcome. Joe. Joe Cannon, DRB member. Rob. Rob Goodwin, DRB member. Hi, Rob. And Michael. Yeah, Michael. DRB. Hi, Kate. Hi, Michael. Welcome. And we are also joined and assisted by Meredith Crandall, who is our zoning administrator. We are being filmed by Orca Media and Tammy Furry is the recording secretary who makes this all into minutes that we can understand, which we appreciate very much. Alright, so with introductions, we'll get to the next item on the agenda here, which is staff review of procedures in the zoom format. So I'll turn it over to Meredith. There we go. So I am sharing this document. It's mostly for people who are viewing on Orca at home who if they decide they want to then join the DRB meeting, they may. So those viewing or media, you can participate in this development review board meeting. If you so choose, you can log in to the zoom meeting using this link here directly. You can also call into the meeting with this phone number. Using the meeting ID and password. You can download the complete meeting packet or even just specific application materials through this link here that links you to the agenda and all those meeting materials. If you're trying to get in and you're having problems, please email me here at M Crandall full email address is right there. I will leave this up while I finish the other participation and procedures information. So this new meeting is being recorded as well as streamed live via Orca media. Turning on your video is optional. Public testimony will be taken verbally. The chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. You can chat with me directly if you have any issues with how to use different functions. And the chat will be added to the public record if it's used. Please keep your microphone on mute when you are not speaking to reduce background noise. And for those participating by phone star six will allow you to mute or unmute as a host. I can also usually mute or unmute people, but it kind of depends on your brand features. So I may, you need to do a little thing that's asking me to be asking you to unmute. If you're interested in speaking on a particular matter and you didn't say that you'd like to speak on that when you first logged in or you're an applicant for one thing, but it turns out you haven't interested in something else. Please raise your hand either physically or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. For those of you on the phone, you can press star nine to raise your hand. Or you can just state your name if you're unmuted, if you need to do it that way. And then once the chair has recognized you to participate, please unmute your microphone, confirm that you can be heard and provide your full name and address for the record. This is mostly for people who are commenting, not necessarily applicants. We have your information in the application file. For those commenting on applications, once you've been recognized by the chair, you're free to provide your questions or comments, aiming to keep them to two minutes. If you have questions or comments, please raise your hand. If you have questions, please raise your hand. And those of the board will then have the opportunity to respond or ask questions of you. And the applicant may have an opportunity to respond, but please everyone address the board, not each other. The chair can grant additional time for speakers who have follow-up questions or comments. After you have finished your microphone will be. Sorry. Somebody waiting. Microphone should be muted again. And then the chair will move on to the next person who wants to speak. For people who do have comments. If you decide you want to talk again, you can speak again. You're not limited just those two minutes, but please make sure that it's with, you've been recognized again by the chair. In the event the public is unable to access this meeting. If we are getting comments, if I'm getting emails and people just can't get in, we'll have to continue this to a time and place certain. I already mentioned connectivity issues. If you're having trouble seeing the documents and screen share mode. Like I said, all files are uploaded to the agendas and minutes page for this meeting on the city website. You can email me if you're having issues getting them. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting will be done by roll call vote. On that hand, the meeting back over to. The chair, Kate. Thank you. Thanks for that overview, Meredith. We appreciate it. All right. So the next item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda, which we will do by roll call. Are there any modifications to the agenda from board members? All right. In that case, do I have a motion to approve? I don't know. I don't know. Okay. That is something that we can update for the record. Thanks for noticing that, Rob. All right. With that in mind, is there a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Motion by Roger second. Second. Second from Jean. I'll call the roll. Jean. Roger. Yes. Abby. Yes. Joe. Yes. Rob. Yes. Michael. Yes. And I also vote. Yes, we've approved the agenda. Thank you very much. All right. The next item on our agenda is comments from the chair. And the first thing I would like to do is extend a welcome to new board member Abby white. Abby, thank you so much for stepping up and being part of this board. Thank you for your interest. And for what you're going to bring to it. We're really looking forward to working with you and getting to know you as a board member. So thank you. The other comment that I want to share is that I want to let folks know about a temporary shift in the way that we're going to be doing things. We've been doing zoom hearing since about May. We've all been on that ride together. And you won't be surprised to know that one of the things that's been very challenging. Is running meetings as efficiently on zoom as they would be run in person. And in addition, we lack the same sort of interpersonal clues and clues for interacting with each other with applicants. And that can make having a smooth discussion a little bit difficult. Out of respect for the public's time. And to ensure that board members are fully able to deliberate on each application to come up with the best conditions possible. And to do that without feeling rushed. We have decided to pilot a closed deliberative session. To make decisions on each application. But the sessions will be closed. We will still be issuing a written decision. And we're going to pilot this approach for about three months. We're going to see if it works for board members and for the public. We're going to be revisiting this as an agenda item on our late December or early December. Meeting. So I'll have a chance to talk about it and hear from people about what worked and what didn't. If anybody has feedback on this approach in the meantime, board members, members of the public, applicants, anyone at all, please contact Meredith and let her know your thoughts. We do want to hear from you. So thank you for being willing to try this. Thank you for bearing with us. This is very much in the spirit of making sure that we have solid fair decisions for applicants. And I think we're going to be able to do that. I think we're going to be able to do that. I think we're going to be able to do that. I think we're going to be in the spirit of making sure that we have solid fair decisions for applicants. And we're doing it for all applications because we want to avoid singling out individual applications for the deliberative session. We're just going to do it uniformly and predictively. So that is something the board has discussed previously, but I wanted to make this public statement about this shift. Temporary shift pilot shift. In this approach. So do, do any board members have any questions about that? I think we're going to be able to do that. I think we're going to be able to do that. And then the next agenda item then, which is meeting minutes, voting on the meeting minutes of August 3rd, 2020. Does anyone have any edits to those minutes? I have just one on page two at some point. It says amphibious migration. And I think we want to say amphibian migration since that's what we've been, we were talking about. And that's what the condition pertains to. So that way it'll just be consistent. Okay. So, um, I will accept a motion to approve the minutes. Okay. Do I, who made the motion? I'll make the motion. This is Joe. Motion by Joe. Thank you. A second by Jean. Is that correct, Jean? Great. Thank you. And I will call the role of those eligible to vote. Um, Rob. Yes. Joe. Yes. Michael. Yes. Roger. Yes. Jean. Thank you. And I also vote yes, we have adopted the minutes of August 3rd. Very good. All right. So we're going to shift to our first application, which is for 11 Baldwin street. And I will be recusing myself from this application because it is my employer. And our vice chair is unable to be here this evening. So I would like to invite a nomination to have Roger as vice chair for the 11 Baldwin street application. I would make that motion, I guess. Joe. I would second the motion for Roger. I would second the motion. Roger. Roger. Roger. Roger. Roger. Roger. Roger has said that he is willing to serve that role for this application. And so I would like to invite a nomination to have Roger as vice chair. To be the vice chair of this. Thank you. Second from Jean. And now we'll call the roll on that motion. Jean. Yes. Roger. You're muted. Abstain. Okay. I thought that's what you said. Thanks. Abby. Yes. Joe. Yes. Rob. Yes. Michael. Yes. And I also vote yes. I am going to hand the reins of the meeting over to Roger and put them in Roger's very capable hands. I'm going to go off camera until the conclusion of this. And I'll be back for the next application. Someone can send me a text message. That'd be great. But I'll be nearby. Thank you. Over to you, Roger. Thank you, Kate. This is the application for conditional use review and minor site plan at 11 Baldwin street. And that is represented by Mr. Schup. Is that correct? Mr. Schup. Yes, that's correct. And I'll swear you in in a moment. Are there other people here to testify to this? Application. Yes. Asher Nelson from Vermont integrated architecture. Is here. Doing probably a book of the talking and Kate Stevenson from helm construction management is also here and may provide some input. Anyone else. For this application. Well, will you please those that will be tested? Yes. Meredith. Sorry. I just, I want to make find out there's a Peter's iPad. Whoever that is, if you could just tell me who you are so we can figure out what you're here for. Hey there. Peter Ricker. I'm a joining landowner of Mary Hill. The next project. Thank you, Peter. I appreciate it. Sorry for the interruption. Roger. I just wanted to make sure that we knew who everybody was. That's, that's great. Thank you. Please are those who are going to testify, please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth? The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes. Great. Thank you. Okay. So let's get on with this application. Meredith, would you give us a, this is kind of an update. Would you please give us an update? Yes. So as you said, this is an application by the Vermont natural resources council for conditional use. It's to expand a conditional office use that the board approved last year by converting an additional 1,295 square feet of a former residential building into office space. This expanded use also increases the minimum number of parking spaces required under section 3,011 by one space. So when it was approved by the board last year, it only needed five spaces as a minimum. Now it needs six. So when it was approved last year, the board actually granted VNRC the application. To have fewer than the minimum required parking spaces. And so the VNRC is asking for a similar allowance here. A reminder to the board members that you can only evaluate those factors that are actually changing between this application and the prior permit. So even though they haven't actually, constructed, say the, the parking second parking area off of Terra street, the board already approved it. So we have to, or you have to look at that as almost as already having been built. So they're just changing what they're asking for from that to spot parking space up top to a one spot parking space with some different design features. And that's, you know, same with changes to the site plan. So they previously had additional parking spaces down by the main building off of Baldwin. They're reconfiguring those and adding an additional one. So you're looking at the changes between the previously approved site plan. And this new proposed site plan. Great. Thank you, Meredith. Mr. shoot. Would you like to. Speak. Sure. I will briefly think, I want to thank the board for your time. So as I represented to the board, I think there's a lot of new faces since last August or September. The NRC was in a kind of a. Surprisingly good position to be able to acquire this parcel and convert the former Gibson residents to our office space. At the time of my application, we hadn't hired a design team yet. I just wanted to make sure that before we went ahead with the purchase that we were able to use the, the property for the intended purposes. So we really weren't sure about some of the site design features that we were going to be designing. Also at that time, there was, we didn't anticipate using a portion of the entire, the, of the building. There's an unheated currently unheated room above the garage. And there's two rooms on the third floor that we felt like we were going to be able to use. And not use for office space and hold that for future expansion. But as we went through the design process with our design team, we decided that we really, it was in our best interest now to go ahead with the full upgrade of the building. So that expanded the amount of office space that we hope you use. We also had a very rudimentary site design plan last time. It didn't adequately address, it didn't adequately address, it didn't adequately address, it didn't adequately address storm water management in my mind. So we made some significant changes to the site design for better water quality management. And we weren't sure how to deal with some minor kind of ledge removal that's adjacent to the driveway. And as we've got in and did some site exploration, we decided that there was more opportunities to improve the function of the area next to the driveway up, up by the back of the building. So that's, that's kind of what brought us here today. We have a more complete design. For my integrated architectures can answer any questions or present an overview of what has changed since. Last September. And I guess I don't. And maybe when we get into parking, I'll have some more to add to that. But I think that's pretty much where we are. Asher, could I. Yeah. I guess, Mr. Chair, how would you like to proceed? Would you like a more background on what has changed and what we're proposing? Or would you rather have the board. In choir. I would like to move fairly briskly through. Chapter 300 general standards to get right to the issue of parking and loading. That seems to be the major change. If that's agreeable with you, Mr. Schupin with, with, with board members. Does that sound agreeable board members? You can shake your head at one way or the other. Okay. Well, let's, is that okay? That sounds great. I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Well, let's, well, I, I have the staff report here. So I'm going to. Move through. The. The general standards. I'm looking at dimensional. I'm looking at section 3002 and 3003 dimensional standards. And I'm going to skip right on page five to the staff finding. The staff finding says the subject parcel and proposed site plan changes meet the minimum lot size frontage and coverage requirements for the MUR district. Further proposed office use complies with the MUR. The MUR district's density requirements. I'm going to go to section 3004 demolition, not applicable. Repairing and rights, not applicable. Wetlands and vernal pools, not applicable. Steep slopes. The staff finding is that 3007 steep slopes does not apply. 3008. I'm going to go to section 3004. I'm going to go to section 3004. Erosion control. Staff findings are applicants expansion of the driveway will need to comply with the best practices listed in 3008. D. But a professionally prepared erosion control plan is not required given the small amount of land impact. Section 3009. The public works has not asked for additional stormwater plans. The nearby municipal stormwater storage infrastructure. And applicants proposal to increase on five consign infiltration of stormwater flow. Staff suggested the board concludes the, sorry. Staff suggests that the board conclude that this proposal complies with section 3009. Now we come to 310 access and circulation. And I would like to correct me if I'm wrong here, Meredith. I would like to move to section 3011 parking and loading. That seems to be the major issue before us on this application. Really. Okay. 3010 is really there's, it's a minute point that's flagged just because technically the changed upper parking area, but ultimately if the board decides that they're going to grant. Applicant, they're reduced parking numbers. And don't worry about that. Parking area that it doesn't even matter. Okay. Well, let's, let's, let's, let's move to 311 section 311, which is on page 10 of the. Because of the expanded use in the buildings. Now six spaces are required. And the applicant has. And his application and their application has. Proposed another one. Which moves it to five. On the property. And we have the authority to wave. That the requirement of six and leave it at five, if, if we wish. And so, so let, let, let's look at that. Let's look at that question. If that, if that's all right with, with you and Mr. Schupen with your colleagues. Absolutely. Do you want to talk more about those requirements? I think the short story is that. When we increase the amount of conditional office use requested, we're. That, that drives the increase one to one more parking spot. In this case. We are also increasing the amount of area. We're also increasing the number of parking spaces. And so. Brian mentioned the removal of some ledge. So we've actually expanded the flat area. Basically what we're calling the upper level. It's it's maybe eight or 10 feet above the street level. To the northeast of the building. And that allows us to add one more. Parking space at that level. In the last hearing, last summer. We were able to do that. We were able to do that. We were able to do that. We were able to do that on the terrace street level that were waived. In this go around, we're proposing five on that level. With our expanded area. And that allowed us to reduce the one on terrace, just to one on terrace street. But we're also requesting that to be waived for similar reasons. If you try to fit. Two parking spaces on terrace street. Nose in you will need to build retaining walls to create that much flat space. We were proposing to burn a single space because we have more with this point. In the findings that the. Department of public works actually suggested a parallel parking spot there, which I am like kicking myself. I was basically working from. Where we were before with two nos in parking spaces. So I narrowed it to one and made that work, but a parallel space there would be much less impact. You know, I think we'll still request a waiver, but I think there's an easier way to do it than what was drawn. And that came through with the public works comments you've seen probably. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm good. Okay. Would you in your application and in the staff report, we do have the reasons for granting a waiver. And your responses to those. Could you, could you go over those for the board, please? Sure. I think to start at the highest level, which probably isn't listed in the staff report. And that's something that we're really looking at. We are actually working on an organization that is trying to work actively to reduce transportation. A single car use and reduce our environmental impacts of our transportation choices. So. Any encouragement of. Public transit or alternative means of transportation. That's right. In with this organization. That said, we are providing a covered in. storage and showers. So people who do want to walk, jog, or bike to work have a place to store their bike. It means to get clean and change before work. We also are proximal to multiple public transit options. So I think there are many of the same reasons that were presented in Alaska around. So making sense at an organizational level down to the options that are available and also seasonal parking on Baldwin Street. I think it's the last one. If I could just add to that, those are the basis of our request for a waiver. And that's what you need to rest your decision on. We do encourage carpooling and walking and biking to work. Several of our employees live in Montpelier and currently walk. And we are in conversations that are promising folks at the Christian Science Church. This is not a commitment on either part that this will result in offsite parking. But they use their spaces on a very limited basis. And the lot that's part of the Union Mutual Insurance Company. So we are exploring a variety of different ways to minimize on-site parking. But the most important one, as Asher said, is trying to minimize the use of automobiles coming to and from the building. All right. OK, great. Thanks. So 3011.C3 has the criteria of board members. It's on the page 10 of the staff report. I think Mr. Schupin and his colleagues have addressed each of those criteria. Now let me ask board members, do you have questions for the applicants about this question of waiving one of the requirement for six and waiving one of those parking spaces based on our authority to do that? I'm just wondering, do you have a design visual available that you could pop up on the screen of the area space? Asher, let me know if you don't have the share screen option for some reason. And I can always pull it up from the application package. That'd be great, Meredith. And are you referring to the terrace street lot or the main parking area down by the building? The main parking area. Oh, there we go. That's the former one. Yep. There, can you all see that? Yeah. Now one, two, three, which is the ADA, four, and five. And just to be clear, the terrace street spot is not shown on this. This is only the lower portion of the site. Can I make one additional comment? Yes, certainly. Yeah. And this is just for background to understand how the regulations apply to different uses along Baldwin Street. My initial plan had been to widen the driveway all the way down the Baldwin to be able to use parallel parking up the driveway. That's a practice on Baldwin Street. A couple of the state office buildings allow that. And the only residential property owned by Down Street on the corner of Bailey and Baldwin also allow that. Because we're a non-residential building that subjects a meanest view, unlike the state buildings, we're prohibited from doing that. But that is a common practice on Baldwin. I just wanted to point that out as far as how parking is considered by the city's bylaws. Great, thank you very much. I would like to move to, are there other questions from board members about this waiver request? OK, I'd like to move to page 12 of the staff report. And the staff has said on page 12 that we have three options regarding this waiver request. The first is to deny it, require all six parking spaces. The second is to approve the waiver with just the five lower parking space spaces. And an option to construct the sixth, that would be on terrace, we have presumed. And three, approving the application with just the five lower parking spaces but disallowing the redesigned Territory Parking Area. Under option three, applicants 2019 permit that authorizes a two-space parking area off Territory would still be active until 2021. I'm not sure how to proceed. I would ask the applicant, which of those would you like? Certainly you don't want number one, where we disapprove the waiver. Between two and three, do you have any place, any preference? Ryan, I'll have to defer to you on that because basically, do you want the future until 2021, the ability to construct the two on the upper, on terrace? But not the requirement, but the option to? Right. Yes, I think that would be better. I don't anticipate it, but I like keeping options open in case we find renovating houses way cheaper than we thought we would. And we have extra resources. Maybe we would decide to do that. I don't anticipate that though. But so I guess I should be more clear, option two allows you to construct that at any point in the future. Am I correct on that, Meredith? So all zoning permits are good for two years. But if the board approves your reduced single space up there, it really overrides your old option to build two spots up there. But what that does mean is if you come back and you're like, no, no, no, we really want to be designed to just do this one parallel parking space instead of the two that you already have permitted, you'll have to come back for an amendment to the permit or a whole new permit. If it's if your old one from last year expired, there's a little bit of strategic thinking about this. A amendment to go from the two that were authorized last year to a single parallel parking space might just be an administrative amendment. You have some options on how you want things to look at here. It's just it's a little things evolved a little bit in this application so that we didn't really have a chance to have this conversation before tonight. So I understand. That would allow us to go ahead with one space? I'm confused. Sorry. We'd allow you to go ahead with one space. I think option two would be the preference because that would allow us to construct one space in the next two years. And it's two years from now, not two years from the prior permit. Right. And a year on it. And if we decided we did want to do two spaces, we could come back for an amendment, whether by the board or administrative amendment. That would be our preference, yeah. So option two. Option two. Thank you for taking the time to have that discussion. OK, great. Then I think the operative question for the board, which we will take up in our deliberative session, is should we allow the waiver and should we agree to option two? Does that make sense? OK, we'll save that for then. Any questions from the board about that? Pace forward. OK, let's move to chapter 320 site plan standards. We're now getting into this is a minor site plan. And I'm going to move briskly through this, if that's OK with everyone, because it's not very tough. Access and circulation, staff finding is pedestrian facilities are fully developed with sufficient sidewalks and internal walkways, as well as a nearby bus stop. Further bicycle storage will be provided. Therefore, this application complies with the requirements of 3202, access and circulation. The next is landscape and screening. The staff finds this parcel complies with the total landscaping minimums in the proposed site plan. Changes do not appear to require additional screening, given the plans to retain screening vegetation around the revised parking spaces. Section 3204 outdoor lighting, not applicable. Section 330 conditional use standards. So now we're moving to conditional use. And the first part of that is 3302, capacity of community facilities and utilities. The staff finds that applicants requested expansion of the total square footage being used for office space at 11 Baldwin will not cause a disproportionate or unreasonable burden on the city's ability to override community facilities and utilities. Board members, if you have any questions as I'm going through these things, just raise your hand. It's pretty pro forma. I think applicants request for expansion of the total footage. OK, I did that. Traffic staff findings said staff suggested the board determined that the proposed change complies with 3302 requirements, even with only five parking spaces, given that the expanded office use will be unlikely to have an adverse effect on traffic in the neighborhood. That's a good suggestion. Character of the neighborhood, 3304, staff finds that the proposed changes of use to an office does not have additional undue adverse effects on the character of the redstone neighborhood as the impact of additional landscaping on the front of the parcel would act to enhance the neighborhood character. Conditions of approval, performance standards, staff finds that given the other uses in the immediate neighborhood and that the expanded office use will not be concentrated in the daytime and therefore less likely to conflict with the residential uses within the greater redstone neighborhood. Staff finds the proposal does not require additional performance standards as conditions of approval. So we've gone through the entire application. And I would like to see if staff have any questions, final questions about this. If our applicants have any final comments. And then I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing and move to deliberative session in due time. Are there final questions or comments from board members? I have a question. I'm not sure if the applicant can answer right now, but I'd like to get a sense of how many people, maybe a minimum or maximum number of cars you think would be driving to the office on any given day is an estimate. With the five spaces, we're going to be limited. To be very honest with you, we have occupied nine Bailey for over 35 years. And we have a slightly larger staff than we did. Probably the larger than we did when we first occupied nine Bailey. But it would be comparable to what we've been experiencing. I'm hoping that a more concerted effort to get people out of their cars and onto public transit or parking at the Department of Health building and taking the shuttle over during the legislative session will reduce the number of people that we're experiencing driving into our office now. We now have six spaces in the back of our building and two along Bailey that are sometimes filled, not always filled. Sometimes they're filled beyond capacity. One of the reasons we expanded the additional space is I believe in the future, we're going to, at least in the foreseeable future, we're going to have fewer shared offices. So we just need more rooms for people because of COVID. And I also am pretty sure that we're going to have a lot more people working at home permanently because it's turned out to be very effective for us. So I don't think there's going to be any more traffic than we currently generate. And I expect a reduction in traffic. And that maybe doesn't answer your questions because I'm not really as hard to come up with a number. No, that was good. Thank you. Great. Any other questions from board members? Final comments from applicants? Meredith, do you have a final comment? Asher, it looked like you were going to say something. I was just going to say thank you for taking the time to consider our application. So I'm good. I'd like to make a motion to close the public hearing and move to a deliberate session. Talk to you in the motion. Motion by Rob, second by Jean. Yes, Meredith. Just discussion mode since we've had the second. Make maybe a little friendly minute by somebody to make sure that we're moving to the deliberative session after the close of the full public meeting. Rob, do you have a procedural question? Listening to what Kate said when she opened the meeting, do you close all hearings, deliberate privately, and issue a written decision after tonight? Yes. Great. OK, thank you. A motion by Rob, second by Jean. I will call the roll. Jean? Yes. Abby? Yes. Rob? Yes. Joe? Yes. Michael? Yes. And I vote yes. The motion carries. I think that is it. Great, thank you all for your time. I want to thank Meredith for the excellent staff support. Good job. Excellent. You're welcome. If Roger is ready, I will assume chairship of the meeting. I would great pleasure to turn it over to you, Kate. Thank you, Roger. Thanks for doing such a great job and for stepping in to help out. All right, so next we will move on to our next application of the evening, which is for 420 Murray Hill Drive. And folks who are here to testify on this application, if you could join us. There we are visually. If you choose, though, that is optional. Very good. So the first thing I'm going to do is swear in the witnesses. So if anyone wishing to be heard on this could take the oath. If you're on camera, you can raise your right hand. And do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury? I do. OK, I heard Jim Tringe and Stan Welch, both sworn in as witnesses. Was there anyone else who was wishing to be heard on this matter? I believe I see. Peter. Are you someone who would like to be heard on this? Yeah, I'm just observing. OK, that's fine too. Thank you. All right, great. So this application 420 Murray Hill Drive is an application for a second access to a parcel within Murray Hill. And I would like to start by asking Meredith to please give us an overview of the project. Happy to. So first of all, the staff report for anybody looking on at home on this begins on page 47 of the meeting packet. The applicant is seeking to add a second driveway on a privately owned parcel that currently contains a single family home and some water infrastructure that serves the Murray Hill planned unit development. And this privately owned parcel is part of that PUD. And the second driveway would be part of a transfer of the Murray Hill water system to the city of Montpelier. And the second driver would provide a separate municipal access to what will become a municipal water pump station. That pump station is currently there, but the city's taking it over. There's really two big issues here. Is the pump station a water supply-related facility? And if so, is it a previously existing non-conforming use that has been enlarged, extended, expanded, or intensified? And then we'll approve the requested second driveway. And that's under section 3010 on the packet. OK, great. Thank you, Meredith. What we typically do next is turn it over to the applicants to speak about the project and give a brief overview and share anything that you want to make sure we know. And then as we go through the staff report, you'll also have an opportunity to speak then as well. But for starters, please go ahead and tell us about the project. I think that would be you, Jim, right? Yes, good evening. My name is Jim Tringe. I'm a Murray Hill resident and board member. I've lived in Murray Hill development for about 14 years. And I'm currently serving as the secretary of the Homeowners Association Board and also as the liaison between the board and the association and our other stakeholders in this project. I'm going to give a brief background just to expand a little bit on Meredith's comments. But I also want to point out that we also have Stan Welch, who's a professional engineer with the brain group who has done the engineering for this project. So the Murray Hill Homeowners Association represents 85 homes and condominiums since 1983. The water system, which is privately owned, has been supplied by two bedrock wells. And it's provided reliable, high quality water for drinking and domestic purposes during that time. Several years after the Murray Hill neighborhood was established, the city of Montcullier invested in additional water supply infrastructure that made it possible to serve higher elevation areas northeast of the city, such as the Murray Hill neighborhood. So our challenge has been that, going back to 2018, when there was a pretty severe drought, the Murray Hill well yields declined. And the well level observations seemed to be historically low. We were able to restore well performance with some unplanned maintenance. But this experience in 2018 underscored our need to investigate alternatives. So with the uncertainty of the reliability of the bedrock wells and higher costs associated with operating and maintaining the wells over the long term, the Board of Directors contracted with the Dufresne Group to explore water supply options, ranging from drilling new wells and alternative routes for connecting Murray Hill to the Montcullier public water municipal system. Additional stakeholders in this project have included the Montcullier Department of Public Works, Hoffer Consulting, hydrogeologists, the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources, Department of Environmental Conservation, Drinking Water, State Revolving Loan Fund. So after reviewing all of the options based on the monetary and non-monetary factors and with the long term stability of our homes in mind, the Board entered the association into a water system conveyance and water supply agreement with the City of Montcullier in October of 2019. So fast forward to this summer, once again a very dry summer and some sort of an anxious time for the residents here. But we have proceeded forward with the final design of the system and the improvements. And you're tonight reviewing the portion of the proposed improvement that would provide an access drive from the cul-de-sac on the upper end of the Murray Hill development to an existing structure and plumbing that supports the water supply for the existing wells and water distribution system. As part of the agreement with the city, the association included an improvement of the access drive to that structure. And that's what's being considered. I will say that we have a number of permits that are in progress. And we recently received our permit to construct. So we are eager to continue to move this process forward with the hope of starting construction before the end of the 2020 construction year. So I'll pause there. I hope that was helpful background. But I'd appreciate the Board's consideration of this request. Thank you, Jim. Before we get into the staff report, do board members have any questions about what they just heard? OK. Jim, I think I heard you say that, just to help me get my bearings, I heard you say that the agreement with the city includes the improvement of the access drive. Does that mean that there is an existing access drive to the water supply to the station? The original, excuse me, yes. So the easement that exists when the property was developed referred to an access drive. However, there's no visible drive there now. So what we're, you can probably see from the drawings that we're looking to make some great changes as well as some structural changes that will support a vehicle getting access to that structure. OK, thank you. All right. What I'd like to do then is move into the staff report and discuss the threshold questions, if you will, that Meredith raised at the beginning. So we're going to start on page four of the staff report. I'm sorry. I don't have the page number within the big packet. I'm looking at the standalone staff report. But page 50, all right. Once you're there, you'll be able to know where to go from there. All right. So page 50 of the big packet, page four of the standalone. And our threshold question is regarding water supply facilities. They are defined as water supply, pump stations, dams, water tanks, wells, water treatment and purification facilities, and reservoirs in our zone. And these are not an allowed use in Res 9, the zoning district where this is located. However, we know that nonconforming uses can only, it can be a preexisting nonconforming use so long as it is not enlarged, extended, expanded, or intensified. So our threshold question is regarding whether this is a water supply related facility. I believe it is. Do others have, do others see it differently? Because it is a pump station, right? Sorry, was that question directed in? Oh, I guess it was. That wasn't clear, though. Thank you. Yes. It's a, so there is a booster pump station there that takes the pressure in the existing supply line and increases the pressure to serve 12 homes at the upper elevation of the system. OK. And there's also a storage reservoir there as well. OK. So it meets the definition of the thing that today would not be allowed there. However, it's a preexisting nonconformity. So we have ways to deal with that. It is our, we need to make the determination about whether it's being enlarged, extended, expanded, or intensified. So I'll ask you, Jim, is this being made bigger so that it can serve more houses? It's not, the size is not changing. It's going to be serving the existing homes that are there. OK. And there's going to be the addition of some monitoring infrastructure. Is, could you describe what that is and how big an impact it has on the area, if any? Yeah, that was, that was another requirement of the city to tie it into their existing wire. Sorry, radio communication system so that they can do remote monitoring of the system without actually having to drive a vehicle back there to have an understanding of if water is flowing or if there's any, any components that are in an alarm state. OK. We don't have that, we don't have that type of monitoring now. OK. And is that like a three foot by three foot cube? Or is that a little box like a CB radio?  I think I'm going to ask Stan to comment on the footprint of the, of the communication infrastructure if, if Stan can chime in on that with Dufresne Group. Or Stan will Dufresne Group, I'll prepare the design. So the monitoring infrastructure in terms of footprint applies is relatively small. It's basically the size of a small electric panel, something you'd have in like your garage or something that mounts to the wall. And then the pieces that tie into that are sensors, pressure transmitters. So there's an intrusion alarm that's like a magnet that would be kind of like what you'd have on your window for your home security system, a temperature monitoring alarm that's basically the size of a thermostat, some pressure monitoring infrastructure, which is going to go on some plumbing modifications. And another point to note here when we're talking about the size of the water system infrastructure being at larger extended is that that 34,000 gallon reservoir that's currently acting as the source or the storage for the water in Murray Hill is going to be abandoned and is no longer going to be part of the water system. I would just like to note that that's kind of actually reducing impact in terms of water system infrastructure on this individual parcel. Okay. Thanks, Stan, for that good description to help us picture it. I appreciate that. So it sounds like the staff recommendation is that we find that this proposal is not for all intents and purposes, enlarging, expanding, expanding or intensifying the existing water supply-related facility use. And I am comfortable with that recommendation and allowing the non-conforming use to continue. How do other board members feel? I'm seeing some nodding indicating comfort. Okay. I have a question. Yeah, go ahead, Gene. Is there a, so does the site have a water systems operator? Is that the city? Yes, we currently have a Class 3 licensed water system operator. It's the original developer of the neighborhood, Ken Seneca. Okay, great. So I think as a board, we've collected the information we need to make this determination about the use of the non-conformity. And we can, we see this as a non-conforming use that can continue because of very minimal changes to that use. So with that, I'd like to move on section 3002 and 3003, which is dimensional standards. So the question here, or what we have here is, no, it meets the setback and the coverage requirements. And the question is regarding, I believe, sorry, I'm just gonna look at something here. Staff determination is regarding impervious surface is that less than 2000 square feet are being added. But it mentions porous pavement that will allow for the growth of grass and therefore be permanent. Are we talking about kind of lattice-like concrete pavers that have dirt and grass growing through them? Is that what you're using? Yes, that's what's been specified on the plants. Okay, great. For the portion that's most visible from the roadside, the portion that's closer to the structure will be for typical crushed stone. Great, thanks. So I believe that staff finding is that dimensional standards, accessory structures and uses are met. Any questions from board members about those sections? Okay. I'm going to not spend time on the things that don't apply, but if there are questions, of course, we can ask them and have them addressed. So the next parts up, sections 3004 demolition, 3005 riparian areas, 3006 wetlands and vernal pools and 3007 steep slopes. They don't apply because those things are not present on the site. Section 3008 is erosion control. There is no erosion control plan required due to the slopes present. Are there any questions or concerns from the board about that? All right, 3009 stormwater management. Staff are suggesting is suggesting compliance because the standard is that it must be in accordance with plans approved by the director of public works. And this whole project is coordinated with the director of public works. So I think that stands as evidence that DPW is okay with it. Okay, so we believe confined that that is that is met. All right, so we're going to move on to section 3010, access and circulation. And you got warmed up on this one in the previous application. So, and most applications that we see in fact. So this is where the criteria for evaluating the appropriateness of a second driveway live. It's where those criteria are. And this is about adequate access and circulation. Shared access between parcels is strongly encouraged. A lot may be served by only one access point, except that the board may approve more than access, more than one access on a lot when necessary to accommodate unique physical conditions on the property to provide adequate emergency access or to provide adequate circulation within the site. So those are oars. So could you speak a little bit to how those are required in terms of any unique physical conditions on the property that require the second driveway or the necessity of emergency access through a separate driveway, those criteria. Sure. So the intent of the second driveway is to not disturb the traffic of the owner of the residents. There is a large bedrock outcropping, sort of separating the existing driveway access to the residents, to the proposed driveway. And that large outcropping of ledge pretty much divides the two, would divide the two. There's some other landscaping that exists between the proposed access drive and the existing drive that would be disturbed if this access alternative wasn't allowed. So those are a couple of the features that went into the decision to seek a second access drive. How frequently do you suppose the pump station will be accessed by a vehicle? My sense is it may be as frequently as quarterly. You know, that's one of the things that we don't typically access it by vehicle currently. It's really accessed by foot traffic right now, but with ownership transferring to the city and no longer being accessed by the resident water system operator without this accommodation, it was appropriate. Okay. Are there questions from board members about the access or anything related to the criteria we need to find in order to grant a second driveway? In previous times when you said to you during the drought did you have to have some water taken out there to the storage tank? Thankfully, no. We have not had to have water trucked in to the storage tank, knock on wood. But that's certainly been weighing heavily on our minds over the last couple of years is the need to haul water in from offsite. But no, fortunately we've not been in that situation yet. So you would, so this driveway would be essential in case that ever there was an emergency of sorts. As Stan mentioned, the actual water storage reservoir is going to be taken out of service after the municipal connection is complete and the reservoir will no longer be used for water storage at all. So any sort of water supply would be the responsibility of the city via the existing distribution lines that are in place now. So after interconnection, there would be no more need for reservoir or water hauling. Thank you. Other questions from board members? Abby and then Rob. Go ahead. Thanks. I'm just wondering if any growth in this area has anticipated any additional problem and how that may affect the water infrastructure needs going forward. So the 12 homes that are served by the booster pump station, those lots are built out with homes. And so there's no more developable lots that would be served by the booster pump station. The lower areas of the development are currently, we have one lot that is undeveloped. But that would be supplied by the residual system pressure and would not be using the booster pump to supply the pressure. So there's also three homes in the lower area that have their own well system. That's completely independent from our existing system. And that's completely outside the scope of the project to connect with them. But once again, they wouldn't be served by the booster pump. They would get residual city water system pressure. Thanks, Abby. Rob. We have a quick observation here to get to the heart of our driveway spacing which seems to be kind of the crux of this application. And that this is a proposed additional access on the cul-de-sac, which the regs don't appear to be written with a cul-de-sac in mind, especially with the reference to an intersection. So with that regard, I think that it's very appropriate as for reviewing the spacing. And I don't think there should be an issue. Thanks, Rob. That's a nice segue to the next part. You did my work for me. So do others have questions or comments about the fact that the minimum driveway spacing is not met? Typically it's 45 feet between other driveways. We're looking at plus or minus 10 feet and plus or minus 35 feet between the 420 Murray Hill and this new driveway as well as 399 Murray Hill. But it's on a cul-de-sac as noted. Any questions or anything more that you'd like to know about that? I think we have what we need to know for that portion, 310 access and circulation. So I'll just tie a bow on it. The last two items in the staff reporter, 3rd, 3,011 parking and loading and 3,012 signs, neither of which are applicable, but are there any questions? All right, any final questions from the board about the project? Okay, and any last comments from folks presenting about the project? Appreciate your consideration. And we appreciate the support of the City of Montclair. They've been very supportive in this process. It's a great, having access to municipal water supplies is a great option for our neighborhood and we really support their engagement in this project from the first time we approached them back in 2018. Great, all right, thank you, Jim. All right, since I believe we've collected all the evidence that we feel is necessary and so I will entertain a motion to enter deliberative session at the conclusion of the public portion of tonight's meeting. I second the motion to go into deliberate session. I'll take a... So moved. So moved, thank you, Joe, and a second from Jean. I made it sound like I was making the motion but I was actually just making a suggestion so thanks, Jean and Joe, for covering it. Very good, we have a motion and a second and what I will do now is I will call the roll. Jean? Yeah. Roger? Yes. Abby? Yes. Joe? Yes. Rob? Yeah. Michael? Yes. And I vote yes as well. We will consider this in our deliberative session and get you a written decision as soon as we can. Thank you very much for your participation. Thank you guys very much and thank you, Meredith, for all your help in any of the applications. Appreciate it. You're welcome, Stan. All right, and now I am... Okay, back to our agenda. So the next item on our agenda, sorry for the angle, is other business. Our next meeting will be October 5th. Is there any other business that people wish to announce? Okay, in that case, I think, Meredith, what we do is we adjourn to deliberative session, correct? Correct, and I present all of you an email that has the login information for the deliberative session of this completely separate student session. Sounds good. So what we'll do is after we close this meeting, we'll take five minutes so people can stretch their lights and then we'll come back and we will deliberate. So is there a motion to adjourn to deliberative session? Wait, it's not quite adjourned. Close the public hearing and move to deliberative. That's what I meant. Sorry, we don't want to use the adjourn. Thank you, we don't want to do that. Is that all right? Okay, a motion to close the public meeting and move to a deliberative session. Thank you, a motion from Joe? Second. Second from Abby. We'll take the vote, Jean? Yes. Roger? Yes. Abby? Yes. Joe? Yes. Rob? Yes. Michael? Yes. And I vote yes as well. Let's return using the link provided by Meredith in our emails at 818. See you then. Thank you all very much.


Assalamu alaikum. Welcome to virtual university. Today, we are going to have our fifth lesson and this is a lesson about link words. In our last lesson, you were introduced to these two terms references and connectives and if you remember just to recap what we did last time, sentences and paragraphs are not mere words put together. They express ideas which are connected to each other. In today's lesson, we will practice to recognize these references and connectives that is words and phrases that link ideas in sentences. These words, these references and connectives, they make the text smoother to read and a skilled reader is able to recognize these words and make the connection within sentences and between sentences. References are sometimes pronouns, sometimes demonstrative pronouns and at times they are adverbs and sometimes they are even substitutes for words that will either come later or have already appeared in the text. We will look at a number of sentences and we will look at the references within a text. You will find seven sentences on your screen. Some of the words in those sentences are in italics and some are underlined. You will have to make the connections between the italicized words and the underlined words. Which underlined word goes with which italicized word? Five of these sentences have been done for you. I shall go through them with you and show you, point out to you where the connection is. You can do the last two on your own. Read the text, text number one. The first sentence, Mr. Salman bought a new car. His children have not seen it yet. Now in this sentence, you find the word Mr. Salman in italics and the word a new car in italics. In the second sentence, it is his that is underlined and the word it that is underlined. Now in a good sentence you do not, the writer does not repeat. He could have written Mr. Salman bought a new car, Mr. Salman's children have not seen the new car yet. Now that would have sounded very monotonous. So instead of repeating Mr. Salman and a new car again and again, the writer chose to use a pronoun, the word his, the word it. Now Mr. Salman, the pronoun his refers back to Mr. Salman and the word it refers back to the word a new car and by using these two words, these two references, it makes the text easier to read. Mr. Salman bought a new car. His children have not seen it yet. Now you as a skillful reader know what it refers to and who his is referring to. Now shall we look at the next sentence? Our neighbors old car did not work but the new one is fine. The same thing is repeated in this sentence. Our neighbors is in italics and the word car is also in italics. The word there and the word one are underlined. Now our neighbors is referring to the word there. It is in plural. Our neighbors, so there is also in the plural form. Car refers to one. Instead of saying their new car, the writer has used the word their new one and one is referring to car. Let us look at sentence three. Sentence three, everyone seems to think the chairman is guilty. If so, he will probably resign. If not, we should apologize to him. These are three sentences. The first one has the word the chairman and guilty in italics and in the second half we have the three words so, not and him underlined. Him refers to the chairman and the word guilty has two words in the second and the third sentences. So if so, so refers to guilty and if not, not also refers to guilty. Now just for a minute substitute the word guilty for the underlined words. Everyone seems to think the chairman is guilty. If he is guilty, he will probably resign. If he is not guilty, we should apologize to him. Now that would make the reading of this sentence very clumsy. If it was to be read aloud, even then it would be clumsy and if it was just read silently, it would again be confusing. So I hope you understood the use of references. It makes the text smoother to read and quicker to comprehend. Everyone seems to think the chairman is guilty. If so, he will probably resign. If not, we should apologize to him. Sentence 4 Mrs. Mahmood thought the new curtains were a waste of money and Saima, her daughter in law, thought the same. Now here, the new curtains were a waste of money. These are in italics and the word the same is underlined. Instead of using the phrase, the new curtains were a waste of money, the writer has substituted the word the same, the phrase the same instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 8 words, instead of using those 8 words, the words that are underlined, 2 words have been substituted. Mrs. Mahmood thought the new curtains were a waste of money and Saima, her daughter in law, thought the same. That is, she also thought the new curtains were a waste of money. Sentence 5 Although the new hostile warden does not seem to trust the guard, everyone else did. The word did in the second half of the sentence refers back to trusting the guard. I hope you have been able to make the connections between the italicized words and the underlined words. Let us look at sentence 6 and 7. Saima liked the brown sofa, but her husband Salman preferred the red. Number 7 The chair was so well made that Mrs. Gul decided to buy 2 and the word 2 and chair, you have to make the connections between the two. Now, we were looking at references. Now, we shall look at connectives. This is another kind of link. This is a link which is made by conjunctions that join ideas into some kind of relationship within the text. Now, these words or phrases are also known as transitional markers, transitional that is something that comes between two points, something that links this with this point. And these markers, they indicate seven things. The first is result, second is contrast, third is comparison, fourth is illustration or example, fifth cause and effect, sixth a series of stages or series of events, time sequence. And number 7 is addition. Let us look at signals that show result. On your screen you will see six words for our phrases and if you look at them carefully you will notice that they are markers that signal results. When you are reading a text whether it is two sentences or three sentences or a whole paragraph, these words will tell you that one part of the sentence and this other part of the sentence they are connected and the connection is a connection of results. You look at the examples given there and the example is the first example. There were no reasons for Mavish to stay, so she returned to her home. The word so tells you the result because there were no reasons for her to stay, so she returned to her home. The second example, the people objected to the new taxes, therefore they were angry when the government passed the tax bill. Now the word therefore tells you the result, the result of their objection, they were angry. In the same way you will find that the other words in that little word bank given on your screen, all those words also signal result. The word thus, the word hence, the word accordingly, the word consequently, the phrase as a consequence. These are all signals telling the reader that one part of the sentence is connected to the other part and it shows the connection of result. Now we will look at another example and that is words that signal contrast, contrast between two things, may be more than two things and the words are you are all familiar with them with their very common words, words like but, however, yet although on the contrary in contrast instead still despite conversely nevertheless even though on the other hand in spite of the first example says although he works late at night, yet he appears fresh in the morning. There are two signals over there although and yet the second one the second example despite the fierce snowstorm the caravan of Afghan refugees kept moving on and the word despite signals to you the contrast the difference although there was a fierce storm snowstorm and the caravan kept moving and in the same way all the other words in that word bank can be used to show contrast. Let us look at a third one, a third connective which shows comparison and the words are very familiar, very familiar common words the word like likewise as well just as just like similarly in a similar fashion equally in like manner as in the same way. Take the first example driving a motor car is a skill we learn through practice similarly cooking is a skill we learn through hands on experience here two things in this sentence two things are being talked about one is the driving a motor car and the other is cooking and you are told that both are skills and the word similarly tells you that just like driving a notice that in the second sentence we do not have the word driving a motor car the word similarly tells you that it relates to driving a motor car just as driving a motor car is a skill cooking is also a skill which we learn through experience through practice and the word similarly compares the two skills. The second example when family members communicate they are more likely to solve their problems in a similar fashion countries can best solve their problems through communication and you find that two situations are being compared a family and countries and the phrase in a similar fashion connects the two ideas the two family and countries their problems are put together they are compared and the word the phrase that tells you that they are being compared is in a similar fashion the fourth connective or the link word or words are words that show illustration or example words that are used to illustrate what is being said and the words are for example in a sentence for instance sorry to illustrate once such as including and the examples are our history treacher is very absent minded last week for instance he went to work on Sunday now the word the two the phrase for instance he is illustrating what he said in the first part of the sentence in the first part of the sentence it is our history teacher is very absent minded alright he is absent minded how do we know to illustrate the point that is made in the first part he says for last week for instance for instance means example last week for example he went to work on Sunday and that illustrates what is said in the first part of the sentence look at the second example very illustrative the second example is my grandmother does not hear very well for example whenever I say salam nani she answers alamdulillah and the word for example is the same as for instance you can substitute these words you can use one for the other not much difference but it means the same having said my grandmother is does not hear very well to illustrate what was said in the first part he gives you an example for example he illustrates what was said in the first half right now let us look at another link word the link words in number five they all show cause and effect these are words like thus consequently therefore if dash dash dash then because since accordingly so because of result as a result if it gets too humid then our wooden doors swell up and become hard to operate the word if and then tell you that there is a cause and there is an effect if it gets too humid that is the cause part the cause of humidity it has an effect humidity has an effect and what is the effect that the wooden doors swell up and become hard to operate a good reader one glance the word if and then he knows that in this sentence the writer is talking about cause and effect and these are the two link words these are the clues if and then look at the second example because the varnish of the table fungus has begun to grow on it again the word because signals cause an effect the cause is that the varnish has worn off the cause for the growth of fungus is the varnish wearing off the table number six and these are words that show a series of events or a process or time very familiar words words like one two three since first second third lastly then while at last next before after soon afterward soon often during as now until previously finally immediately frequently these are all words that show some connection the first example first I skim the newspaper to see what films are on then I circle the ones I want to record on my VCR now the words first and the word then show you the sequence of time the sequence of events first you pick up the newspaper and you skim through it you flip through the pages and then the next thing you do is that you circle the names of films you want to video on your cassette recorder so the words first then first second next afterwards and then finally these are all words that show the link in time or a link in a series of things that you are doing first you did this then you did that afterwards you did that and a good reader does not waste much time over these things he he he is practiced enough to know that alright these are signals these are signals that tell me first this is done then next then next then next look at the second example previously the two countries got along now previously sorry the two countries didn't get along now they have resumed diplomatic relations and now are two words that show time sometime in the past they were not friendly the two countries didn't get along now they have resumed diplomatic relations and previously and now are signals showing passage of time now the last category is of words that show addition something is being added on and the words are and besides first of all second secondly third thirdly and also being also another and two further more next as well as in addition secondly finally and moreover all these words are used to show that something else is being added on to what has been said previously the two examples Kamran Ali smokes too much furthermore he drops ash all over the floor Kamran Ali does two things he smokes a lot not only that he is dropping ash all over the floor the word furthermore is adding on to the act of smoking in the same way if you look at example two my mother can read and write Pashto as well as speak and understand Cindy a real linguist as well as the phrase as well as is adding on to my mother's ability of reading and writing Pashto and instead of saying my mother can read and write Pashto as well as just adds on I mean you can also use the word and my mother can read and write Pashto and speak and understand Cindy so these words phrases like as well as in addition to moreover these are all words that writers use now I must point out something to you that writers do not like to repeat the same words again and again in every word bank that you saw for every category you notice that there were a number of words and writers when they are writing like to vary their sentences otherwise it would become very very dull to read a piece of writing which repeats the same words so sometimes you will find writers using the word moreover and sometimes you will find them using the word furthermore and sometimes you will find the writers using in addition they all mean the same it is just that the writer it is up to him he likes to use a variety of words the writer likes to play with words and I hope you have learnt link words how link words are used how references are used these are all ways to make your writing smoother your reading smoother now we will look at two more paragraphs two sample paragraphs look at sample one very interesting some few of course still believe that Shakespeare could not have written the plays attributed to him but they have difficulty explaining the fact that many contemporaries of Shakespeare who knew and worked with him considered him first as the actual author and second a very fine author indeed Ben Johnson for example never doubted the authenticity of the plays William Green also referred to Shakespeare as a very fine playwright these are only two of the many contemporary references that leave little doubt that Shakespeare wrote the plays that Shakespeare wrote the plays of William Shakespeare now if you look at the paragraph you will notice there are certain words that are in rectangular boxes and there are certain words that are circled now I shall go through this paragraph with you and point out to you how they are connected look at the word the word him the first circled word what does him refer to who does him refer to you will notice if you read carefully the word him refers back to Shakespeare and the word they the next circled word who does they refer to but they have difficulty explaining the fact who are they if you read go back and read some few so the second word that is circled that is they they refers to those some few look at the word who who does the word who refers to who knew who are these the contemporaries of Shakespeare and worked with him him again of course refers to Shakespeare said it him first and let us look at the next circled word and that is these in the last sentence these are only two of the many contemporary references now who do you think these refers to these refer to Ben Johnson and William green these are only two of the many contemporary references and the two contemporary references are one is Ben Johnson and the other is William green now we will look at the words that were in boxes these are the connectives and there are six connectives in this passage and you will notice that these connectives belong to different categories the first one the first box phrase is of course and you will notice that this is an example of illustration the past the words of course illustrate or let us say confirm that some believe that Shakespeare could not have written those place the second connective is butch and it is a connective showing contrast it shows the contrast between in those people who on the one hand they believe and on the other hand they have difficulty in explaining why Shakespeare's contemporaries considered him a good playwright and the third and fourth connectives are for the word first and the word second notice the word first and the word second are boxed they are both connectives of addition they are adding on to what has been said earlier and what has been said earlier what has been said earlier is that these people have difficulties the people who believe that Shakespeare could not have written those place they have two difficulties difficulties first to explain why he was as an author and second as a fine playwright the fifth connective is the word is the phrase for example now for example you know is an illustration the author illustrates what he has said before he gives an example and the example is of Ben Johnson Ben Johnson is an example of a contemporary of Shakespeare right and the last one is the word also the word also is again an addition it is a word that adds on to what has been said earlier and the example of another contemporary of Shakespeare's that is William Green the first was Ben Johnson and then he uses the word also also refers to William Green now this was an exercise to show you a sample to show you how a paragraph is made up of connectives and references now we will show we will look at another example and this is an example drawn from computers an area that you are studying an area that should be familiar to you read the passage in fact I will read it for you a computer like any other machine is used because it does certain jobs better and more efficiently than humans it can receive more information and process it faster than any human the speed at which a computer works can replace weeks or even months of pencil and paper work therefore computers are used when the time saved offsets their cost which is one of the many reasons they are used so much in business industry and research now you will notice that in this paragraph again there are certain words that are boxed and certain words that are in that have been circled now notice the first it what does it refer to it refers to the word computer the second it it refers to the phrase like any other machine is used because the second it refused to the goes back and refers to the word to the phrase like any other machine now the third it refers to the word information the word there it refers to computers the fixed the fifth word which is circled is which and which refers to the time saved offsets their cost and the last circle word is they and they refers back to computers now I want you to notice it is very easy wherever the word it it referred to a computer and the word they it is in the plural it refers to the word computers in the last sentence a very easy hint for you where it is computer it is hit it it and where it is computers the word is they now you will do an exercise I shall read out three paragraphs after every paragraph you will draw a box round the word you will find in this paragraph in the paragraphs that I read there are there will be certain words that are circled you have to draw a box round the word that the circled words refer to do you understand in the paragraphs that I am going to read there will be certain words that are circled you have to draw a box round the word that the circled word refers to I shall read the first paragraph computers are electronic machines that process information they are capable of communicating with the user of doing different kinds of arithmetic operations and of making three kinds of decisions however they are incapable of thinking they accept data and instructions as input and after processing it they output the results now the words that have been circled over here in this paragraph are that they the beginning of the second sentence and then the word they in the third sentence and they in the last sentence there is another word it in the last sentence so total there are five words that are circled that they they it and they take a minute and think which words are being referred to computers are electronic machines that process information now the word that what does that refer to it refers to machines so you put a box make a little rectangle around the word machine now do you realize that the word that it is a connective it is you it is referring back to the word machine next and next word they they what is they refer to it is talking about computers and then in the third sentence they however they are incapable of thinking now here again the word they refers to computers and in the last sentence the word it what is it referring to they accept data instructions as input and after processing it that is input the word it is referring to the word input it is referring back to the word input and in the last word they it is computers all the words that were circled the days referred to the word computers now the second paragraph when talking about computers both hardware and software need to be considered the former refers to the actual machinery whereas the latter refers to the programs which control and coordinate the activities of the hardware while processing the data in this paragraph two words have been circled and the words are former and the word which now the word former what does former refer to you go back to the first sentence and it refers to the word hardware the word which what does the word which refer to it refers to the word programs paragraph three the first computer was built in 1930 but since then computer technology has evolved a great deal there are three kinds of computers in use today the main frame the mini computer and the micro computer these all have one thing in common they operate quickly and accurately in solving problems two words have been circled in this paragraph and those words are these and they the word these refers to this to the phrase in the second sentence the phrase the main frame the mini computer and the micro micro computer these all have one thing in common what does these refer to these is talking about the main frame the mini computer and the micro computer they operate quickly and accurately in solving problems what does they refer to again they refers to the same phrase the main frame the mini computer and the micro computer now we shall look at another exercise this is an exercise in which you have to choose the correct connectives a small word bank is given you there are five or six words in a box you have to choose one of those words you may repeat you will find that some of these words can be used more than once I shall read out the sentences and I shall give you some time to fill in the correct connective floppies are very cheap dash the gap you have to fill in this gap I shall use the word dash floppies are very cheap dash they are slow and have a limited capacity now out of those five or six words in the word bank you have to choose the right one which one which connective do you think would be suitable over here it is the word but because we are contrasting two things that floppies are very cheap but they are slow and have a limited capacity hard disks are fast and can store large amounts of data dash they are fixed inside the computer dash you cannot use them to transfer data what words would be suitable over here the words that would be suitable would be however and so hard disks are fast and can store large amounts of data however they are fixed inside the computer so so you cannot use them to transfer data you can transfer data with removable hard disks but they are expensive CD ROM disks can hold quite large amounts of data dash they are usually read only dash you cannot change the information on them CD ROM disks can hold quite large amounts of data however they are usually read only for this reason you cannot change the information on them in the last sentence magneto optical disks are like CD ROMs dash you can write data onto them magneto optical disks are like CD ROMs but you can write data onto them they are removable and have large capacities dash they are expensive and do not conform to a standard they are removable and have large capacities however they are expensive and do not conform to a standard dash they are not very common the suitable word would be therefore they are not very common magnetic tape is cheap and has a large capacity dash it does not allow random access and drives are slow dash it is only suitable for backups now the first dash I have already supplied you with the word the word is because because it does not allow a random access and drives are slow dash it is only suitable for backups the correct word would be therefore it is only suitable for backups now with that we come to the end of today's lesson in today's lesson we had practice in recognizing link words connectives references these were skills that you practiced for improving your reading speed and comprehension if you can do all this your reading speed will definitely increase so till next time Allah Hafiz