extraordinarily busy schedule. Should I wait? I'm sorry. Just one minute. I don't think we're live. Are we live now? We have just gone live. So we're good. Just one moment. Mr. I'm going to start the meeting. This is a meeting of the Massachusetts gaming commission. And because we hold this virtually, you have to do a vocal. Commissioner O'Brien. Good afternoon. I'm here. Commissioner Hill. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. I'm here. Mr. Skinner. Good afternoon. Good afternoon and commissioner Maynard. Good afternoon. I'm here. Excellent. Thank you so much. And we're calling today at a special public meeting. It's Monday, January 23rd. And we have a round table. We have a round table discussion today. And I just want to give a few setting of the state remarks. So over the past few weeks and months, the Massachusetts gaming commission has been working diligently to implement the change to the charge in Massachusetts general laws chapter 23 and to stand up a new industry to the commonwealth by licensing and regulating legalized sports wagering. We spent a great deal of time meeting in public and revealing applications from prospective sports wagering operators and inquiring how they would bring their business and expertise to this new industry in Massachusetts. We augmented those conversations with a number of roundtables, specifically roundtables to hear from stakeholders involved in responsible gaming and advertising. Today we are thrilled to be joined by representatives from the players association. A collective representing the individual associations representing players in the NFL, NHL, NBA and NLB. Sports wagering to be successful. All of the commissioners agree is essential that the games and events being wagered on maintain their integrity. And that those taking the contest are able to participate in a line of work without added pressure from this new market. We are pleased to hear today from a group of individuals that represents a wide array of professional athletes who will soon have their games and performance wagered on. Consistent with our commitment to transparency, the Massachusetts gaming commission is always interested in a productive dialogue with all stakeholders and those with important insights that will inform our work. We all know that this conversation will be helpful. Myself, my fellow commissioners, and I encourage those with additional input to reach out to our MGC comments, email. And with that, I'd like to now turn over to turn to our sports wagering roundtable discussion. And I think I'll have James Eisenberg and Chris Erickson from Prety Strategies take the lead. Good afternoon gentlemen. Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Pleasure, thank you. And apologize for jumping the gun earlier. Commissioners, thank you again for your time. We very much appreciate. So I'm Jim Eisenberg, Chris Erickson from Prety Strategies. We're based here in Boston and we represent the players association. And just to sort of throw a couple of opening comments out there. We worked with the players associations while the bill was making its way through the legislation. And the folks up on Beacon Hill were very interested in this, in the issues that we brought up specifically around player safety, biometric data and a number of other issues that you're going to hear about today. And as you know, there are provisions in the statute that reflect that. However, there were some issues that we spoke to the legislative leaders about where they, the feedback from the board, was that it was more appropriate to address them in a regulatory setting. And that is why we are here today. We feel that there are a few, a few areas that the statute allows for your, your involvement, your insight and certainly enforcement. And hopefully we'd like to have a product dialogue with you today about those answer questions. Regarding what the, the players associations are seeing across the different states that are implementing. Sports wagering and how we can, we can make improvements to, to how it goes here in Massachusetts. You just mentioned, Madam chair, that with sports wagering, there does come an increase risk and difference in the way things happen. And we are, we're very grateful for the opportunity to, to be here today. So I think with that, do you have anything to. Okay. So I think with that. And with your permission, Madam chair, I'd like to throw it to, to the, to the players associations representatives just to quickly introduce themselves. Maybe start with Steve. I'm Steve fear. I am council for the national hockey league players association, the NHLPA. And I've represented them on a, a wide variety of matters for more than 10 years. And Matt Nussbaum. After that, I'd like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to, I would like to present myself. I'm David Foster. Good afternoon. It's great to be with everybody on the zoom here today. My name is Matt Nussbaum. I am the general council at the major League baseball. Players association. Where I have served as an in house attorney for. Well, a little over 11 years. And before that, I actually worked at the NHLPA, where Steve is now. Thank you for having us. David. Sure. Good afternoon everyone. in the Deputy General Counsel of the National Basketball Players Association. Pleasure to meet everyone. And what do we do? Yeah, why don't we go with Ned? Good afternoon. My name is Ned Ehrlich. I am the Associate General Counsel at the NFL Players Association and have been in that capacity for 11 years previous to that was outside council for the NFLPA in multiple matters. And Madam Chair, I just thought and commissioners just like to note that Major League Soccer is also a member of our coalition, although they weren't able to join us today. Thank you. So, welcome everyone. And I think that the way we've done this in the past is to really allow it to be an iterative and organic discussion among our participants. And you did provide a very helpful letter to us. I wanted to point out that you submitted it on the same day that we were at the State House hearing from the online sports on wagering potential, sports wagering applicants and licensees. And so we want to note that that was in September. And this was a very critical conversation for us to have. But once we got going on our calendar, it was a little bit tough to coordinate a date. So here we are now on January 23rd. So we thank you for your patience, but your issues have come up occasionally in our meetings. I know that there'll be some follow up questions for you today that even as recently as last week, thought of you and thought of this conversation to inform our regulation. So we thank you for that. For that matter. And I think we'll just turn to the two general topics that you raised and then allow for other issues to percolate as they come up. And we're working virtually. So folks can lean in, raise their hand. But in many ways, we wanted to feel like around table if we could have it in person, it would be very conversational in nature. So turning to regulations protecting athletes, the athletes and their families, we would love to hear more about that. And is there somebody who would like to take the lead on that? I think I think Ned for NFLPA is going to take that. And I'd like to just add a general advisory to this. When we submitted these language and regulation, the language for the regulation proposal, I want to make clear that we are not, we're not wed to any of this language as is. We are willing to work with the commission and take your advice as long as it meets the same ends. So I just wanted to make that clear that this is not a, we're very happy to work with you towards whatever language would meet that. And that goes across the board here on all these conversations we're going to have. But with that, I'd ask Ned to kick it off. And I'm sure others will want to chime in as well. Thanks, yeah. I'm the newest guy on the block. So it's ironic that I go first. But the protection of the players and their families, umpires, referees, club officials, other personnel is a paramount concern to us. The likelihood of an adverse incident arising from sports wagering and involving these individuals is going to continue to increase as gambling becomes more prevalent. We hope that you'll take into consideration the safety not only during the games and in restricted areas like parking lots at team events or where the athletes are training, but also where they live their lives in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts outside of their work environment. There's obviously a broad spectrum of potential misconduct, including physical threats, attempted assault, verbal threats, intimidation, harassment. And our members know that they're going to be targeted by potential losing sports better than importantly, obviously their family members as well. There have been incidents already of involving not only players, but in other areas. And there have been some rather public incidents involving unruly fan behavior at events. And there was one at the Boston Garden. There was one on November, I'm sorry, September 8th, where a fan threw a flare on the field at SoFi Stadium during a Bill's Rams game a month later on October 3rd in a game between the Rams and 49ers. Another flare with a fan incident occurred, although unfortunately this time the fan was actually on the field and close enough to the players that one of our players was compelled to stop the fan. There are obviously multiple instances and incidents of things being thrown at our members long before gambling, beer being dumped on opposing players. In fact, there was a rather public one at Foxborough in 2018 with Tyreek Hill when he was playing for the Chiefs. There's a very public incident at the 22 World Series where a fan was out on the field. So our associations are certainly calling on you to outline exactly what safety measures and what the safety measures should look like with the aforementioned incidents in mind and that fans need to be made aware of what constitute a breach in this conduct and what the penalties will be for fans who violate this through some sort of a notice similar to that which already exists through impaired driving and distracted driving campaigns. Other states have considered this an act of definitions and protections in their sports wagering laws, Virginia, Illinois, among others. And the players are hopeful that Massachusetts legislature will recognize the importance of protecting our members through the definitions in the sports wagering legislation. We would hope that there will be language that would incentivize the leagues, the teams, and the sporting arenas to ensure that our members and their families are protected. And that's obviously of paramount importance to us. If I could piggyback and add a little to what Ned said, I think, well, to back up, we've been doing this with a number of state legislatures throughout the country, some places we've had a fair amount of success, some places we haven't. But it is of great concern to us. And I think there is a particular reason why you ought to give serious consideration to what we're asking for. And that is because this industry, the sports betting industry, is built on the backs of the players. Quite literally, the revenue is generated entirely by the performance of the players. And yet we are not here today with our handout asking for money. All we are asking for today in this process is that you consider some things that will make things safer and make sports betting better and more fair. Our requests are pretty straightforward and set forth in the letter on September 22 as you have in front of you. Yes, just one more thing I'd like to add just to piggyback on what Ned said earlier. I know oftentimes when myself, my colleagues in the past have addressed some of these concerns across the country, that there's always a thought that the leagues or the teams are best suited to handle some of these issues, for example, when it comes to safety. And I think we're in a unique position to explain that oftentimes they actually are not and need a gentle or forceful nudge from government bodies. Because as you can imagine, in the arena situations where you have a fan throwing something on a player or fans are heckling the family members of players because people figure out where the family sit. And when you have more betting, you have increased tension, increased anxiety, increased anger. Oftentimes, the teams in the leagues, they struggle a little bit when it comes to enforcing discipline on fans because fans are the ones that are driving the revenue. And oftentimes, there's a relationship between the fans who've been sitting in the same seats for years and the security guards that have been working in that section for years. And so you can imagine there's a certain level of comfort. And then as a result, sometimes there's a sacrifice when it comes to the personal safety of those fans and the players. So I just want to add that unique perspective to that issue, particularly when it comes to player discipline, fan discipline and conduct in the arenas. And also as Ned intimated earlier, the concerns we have were there are there merely because of the fans' interest and passion in who wins the game. When you add to it now, they may have bet on certain aspects of the game, and the performance of a certain player may excite or disappoint the fans. The concern is even more heightened. I could just add one quick note to that. These concerns are very much real and not theoretical. We encountered a situation in 2019 where a what I'll call professional sports better, a high volume sports better located in California who had placed wagers on a baseball game involving the Tampa Rays and Chicago White Sox. Things must not have gone well because he made death threats to four players on the Tampa Rays, a player on the Chicago White Sox. He ended up being arrested and pled guilty to a number of charges in 2021. And so some of this began as theoretical, but we're already seeing these safety concerns both in the ballpark and away from the ballpark and in things like social media are indeed very real. I'm sure as I want you to interject if you'd like with any questions, Mr. Eisenberger, are you leaning in? No, no, please. We're happy to answer any questions here. Madam Chair? Commissioner Hill? Yes. So as I understand the discussion and the language through the letter that was sent to us, you would like us to ensure that in our regulations that there is language that should there be a threat to the player, should there be a threat to the family member, that that better would no longer be allowed to bet on sports in Massachusetts. That an accurate statement? Well, Commissioner, I think it's that's not explicitly stated, but that's certainly something that we would be interested in forcing. I think in addition to that would be, as I understand both the statute and the regulations that you've been promulgating so far, your sort of ultimate enforcement mechanism is to exclude an event, a sporting event from betting. And so we think it's important that it be made clear that that threat, for lack of a better word, exists in extreme cases where the commission determines it's just not safe for the players to be playing because of threats, intimidation and the like that are related to sports wager. You know, again, as Chris said earlier, we're not wedded to the specific language we've submitted, but I do believe that's the intent. And I think if we want to put a more positive light on it, we were trying to drive incentivizing the leagues and the teams and the arenas to provide no question security for the players and their families.  But excluding the better is also, I think, something that you guys will be looking at in separate issues and separate regulations, but we're very much would support that as well.  And again, we keep hammering that home because it's hard to remember, but a lot of these family members are sitting in these arenas and stadiums watching and people know who they are now because of social media. And that just puts a heavier risk burden on them. So we really want the teams, leagues and arenas to step up their enforcement because these incidences are going to escalate. And Madam Chair, if I could direct a question to Med. I think you, I think you brought up two other jurisdictions who had definitions language that was adopted. I heard that Virginia, I didn't hear the first one. I think Illinois is the other one. And do you folks, could you forward, well, we certainly can call them as well. But to see that language would be very helpful to us. If you could get us that way. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you. Thank you for clarification. So just a clarification for me when you say in proposed language that there's commission determines that there's reports of violence threats or other acts of intimidation on players, coaches, officials or their families to be credible or other prohibited conduct. And then you give us that definition. Said determination shall constitute sufficient cause for exclusion of a sporting event. You mean, because are you, are you assuming that there's sufficient noise chatter, you know, the idea of threats being made in advance of the sporting event that that event itself, let's say it's a Super Bowl gets pulled? Or are you talking about events, meaning all NHL, hockey games for a while until things settle down? I guess I'd like to understand what event means from your perspective. Well, I think the place that the if the general councils on on the line from the place association want to flush this out. But yes, I think it's all of the above. We think it's we think this is going to be a very hope this would be a very rare occurrence. But the ability, we believe based on the statute that the commission has the ability to exclude a specific event from sports wagering under certain circumstances. And we just want to make it explicit in the regulations that that includes threats, say threats against the safety of players, families and staff and coaches and referees. Obviously, none of us wanted to get to that point. When we do say events, we do mean any and all sporting events that would be sanctioned for the purposes of placing a sports sports wager. Mr. Questions. I have a question, Madam Chair. Okay, Commissioner Skinner, then Commissioner Brian. Thank you. And I'm happy to defer to Commissioner Brian. Chris is going to go right ahead. I think you're going to go after you. That's fine. Okay. So taking the action that you are suggesting or that you have suggested in your letter, obviously impacts folks beyond the bad actors. And the examples you gave, unruly behavior, intimidating players and the like. How do you justify that? Because if the commission decided to exclude an entire event, entire sports from participants, residents of Massachusetts being allowed to wager, that's the entirety of Massachusetts. And so just looking for your justification there. And if you could speak a little bit more about why you think it's this commission that's in the best position to sort of manage incidents that occur in the arenas. Sure. I think that I, again, I go back to the possibility of doing it as having a very strong effect on the overall market rather than actually executing something like this. But we would see this as a very extreme example where there were imminent threats that for whatever reason, law enforcement was very concerned about. Other regulatory agencies were very concerned about. And sports wagering was playing a major part in that. As I understand it, your main mechanism of enforcement is the licensing of specific events and vendors for the purposes of sports wagering. So this we're trying to utilize that power that you have to effectuate better relations between the leagues, the teams and the arenas, and also other law enforcement agencies to make sure that there's adequate communication of potential threats and that they're dealt with correctly. Again, I'll defer to the councils online from the various associations, but we are hopeful that it would be a very rare event. And in fact, most of the enforcement would be on an individualized basis, as Commissioner Hill suggested, that threats from a specific better might be addressed individually more often than not. So it looks like Mr. Foster has a... Sure. I just want to chime in. And I just want to agree that I think the first mechanism probably would be addressing the individual better and whatever his or her actions were. But I think it's important that this body does have the ultimate ability that if things have gotten so out of hand, and there's enough evidence to suggest a major unfortunate event might occur, that you have the ability to prevent betting from occurring. I think once again, there would have to be a lot of information and a serious threat, but I do think that this body should have the authority. And quite frankly, I can't think of a body that's better positioned because you would... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that one of your missions is to protect the safety of your residents and the functioning of the business overall. I think ourselves and the leagues, we wouldn't be in the best position, right? We would be focused on our players. The league might be focused on the game and the difficulty if they wanted to reschedule or this or that. And I think you guys do have a pretty much a clear mission. I do want to emphasize I do think it would be rare, but I can certainly see situations where individual bettors are not allowed to bet. I can quite honestly see that happening pretty quickly because some people get out of control and then maybe it expands to that. I don't know if people bet in groups or memberships or whatever, but I just think the overall ability to regulate how the betting is occurring and who gets the bet should definitely be in your purview. Thank you. And just to clarify, my question leaned more toward the suggestion that entire categories of sports be excluded from wagering. And so I appreciate your response. Thank you. Michelle Bryan? Sure. So just going back to your letter in September, looking again at what you brought forward to us, you at the bottom of the first page, you talk about the fact that a number of the things that you asked for from the legislature were in fact included in the statute. And then you have some bulleted points and then you sort of move on to other areas where they maybe clearly said go ask the commission and their regulatory authority. I guess I have a follow-up. The third bullet in says prohibition of in-game bets and demeaning bets. And the statute does eliminate and prohibit certain things like betting on if someone is going to get injured, that sort of thing. I'm just curious if there was something beyond what was in the statute that you had been hoping to get in terms of in-game betting beyond what is specifically laid out in the statute. The position we took on that before any of the general councils went away in, what we had two mechanisms. One was a specific bet, prohibitive bets of demeaning injuries and other things. But the second thing that we were able to get in the legislation is specifically for this group, the players association representatives to be able to petition the MGC as is warranted potentially in the future of other kinds of bets. So to my understanding right now, I don't think we have any of those to petition you, but we did fight very hard to make sure originally it was only going to be the leagues that had that ability, but now the players associations have that ability to come back to you to be able to have a discussion with you about potentially prohibiting other kinds of bets. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, any of our general councils, but I don't believe we have any of those currently to bring before you. I think that's right, but I think that provision, the right to petition is very important for the simple fact that, hey, it's a brand new world out there. It's going to be widespread and easy access to sports betting all over the country, whereas it was very, very limited just a couple of short years ago. I don't think any of us are smart enough to envision any of the problems or situations that are going to arise. So nothing today that you would want to get in front of us beyond what's in the statute, but just reminding us that you may in the future. Correct. Yes. And then the language in Virginia and Illinois statute, is that language proposed by the Players Association? So from Jim and Ari's perspective, we did look at some of the other different legislation that was passing out throughout the country when we were going through this, and we did pull different pieces together from that. I think the prohibited conduct language that's at the bottom of page two of our letter is from the, I believe that's from the Illinois statute, just that put a finer point on actually defining what that prohibited conduct is. And that, I believe, came directly out of there. But to Commissioner Hill's point, Jim and I will take the assignment of getting you exactly what each of those language provisions were in Illinois and Virginia. So that's, so that's very clear. We will get that to you this week. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for everyone who's participating in this. These have been extremely helpful. So I understand the point about the events at large, but I wanted to kind of drill down on the individuals who could be causing trouble for the players, the families, the referees. We do have a provision 205CMR 152 on the gaming side that allows us to exclude individuals from participating in gaming. And I'm not sure if the regs come before us or not, or if it's coming before us or not. But if we have a robust regulation dealing with excluded individuals, both at the brick and mortar locations in the category one, but also, I imagine more importantly, in a category three situation, where someone could actually be sitting in the actual arena or venue with their gaming device in their hand, I'm assuming that would go a long way for the Players Association, correct? Having an ability for the Commission to exclude some of these individuals and do so in a pretty quick manner. So yeah, so Commissioner, I think that's absolutely right. I think that will go a long way. The language that we propose, I think deals with another scenario that we are concerned about, which is potential and we have no evidence that this is occurring at the present time. But in the future, there may be a potential breakdown of communication between the leagues, the team, and specific arenas around Massachusetts, boarding event locations, where physical safety has become in danger of becoming a problem. And we see this as a defining one potential enforcement mechanism that the Commission could have, but really also about keeping everyone on their toes and in communication and where that this is an issue that the Commission takes very seriously. So again, I'd reiterate the chances of you having, I would hope, the chances of you having to shut down a basketball game at the garden are very small. However, there needs to be an ongoing dialogue between the teams, Players Associations, and the event arena owners in order to ensure player safety as sports wagering, mobile sports wagering especially spins off. I think, Mr. Nosbom, you are leading in, maybe? I was, thank you very much. The one thing I wanted to add to that is just a short yes, the answer is yes, Commissioner Maynard. If I could, and if my colleagues could go in front of our players and say that there is a way through the regulations in Massachusetts and hopefully in other states that if you're being threatened, if your family members are being threatened, if that's in the ballpark, if it's in the arena, if it's on social media, we can get them disqualified from being able to bet. I think that that is going to encourage players to come forward. We, under our collective bargaining agreement, have a hotline for players and their families to bring their concerns to us because there are things that we can do. The answer to your question, I think, is it would go a tremendous way toward getting where we need to be if we could target it toward the individual betters and their eligibility to bet. Thank you. Madam Chair, I would ask for our legal team if we're going to have something like this in front of us, or if it's coming, or if we have the authority to do this, because I think that what I'm hearing is we need a robust mechanism for exclusion. Council Grossman, the Commissioner Maynard referenced we have, is there a possibility of enhancement here in light of the discussion? I think we'll have to take a close look at that. Certainly, Chapter 23N has provisions that talk about voluntary self-exclusion. I'd have to look at it a little bit more closely to see whether it addresses involuntary exclusion, like Chapter 23K does. Offhand, I'm not aware of any such language, but it may certainly exist. Then the question would become if it does not exist, whether the Commission has authority to adopt such language in the regulations. But I think we're certainly aware of this issue now, and perhaps we have been, but we will take a close look at that. Thank you. Okay. Madam Chair, another question, please. Yes. This one I think is for Mr. Erickson and Mr. Eisenberg. I understand you've spent a lot of time here in Massachusetts before the legislature, as the bill was being contemplated and negotiated, wondering if, and I'm just curious, you've had the opportunity to reach out directly to the sports wagering operators, either the ones who have recently been granted a temporary license or in any other jurisdiction, to make your concerns known and to try to understand what their processes might be relative to a response to an unruly sports wager or someone who is attending an event and sort of acts up. I will say, Commissioner, that's a very interesting question. It's one we had not contemplated. We, through the legislative process, worked with the legislators drafting the law, which is now law. And then we turn to the regulatory body to do that, who's going to promulgate the regulation. So very interesting point. The answer is no, we have not, but that is something that we can go back and talk to our general councils and see if there might be some mirror in doing that to understanding their exclusion processes, if you will. So it's a very good question. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I want to be respectful of time. Can we visit this and raise any questions that we have, Commissioner, but perhaps we should just turn to the second item, that was written in the letter of credit strategies on the collective bargaining agreements. Does this make sense? No, it's not, it's pretty. Yep. And I think that's, apologies. After these calls, can I take the lead on that one? Thank you so much. Thank you. And I think that the reason I have the honor of taking the lead here is that of all the players' associations, I think that we are probably the furthest along when it comes to putting in place a collectively bargained regulatory framework of our own to govern sports betting. And for anybody who follows baseball, you'll know that we had a close to 100-day lockout in 2021 into 2022. We were able to play a full season in 2022, but we were very close to losing some games. It was a very difficult negotiation as collective bargaining often is, anybody who has had familiarity with the process. So we went 15 rounds with the league on a whole host of issues. I can tell you though, if there was a silver lining to that process, it was in the area of sports betting. And really, since the world changed, so to speak, with the Supreme Court decision, what seems like sometimes 10 minutes ago, sometimes 100 years ago, this is one issue where we've actually worked fairly well, at least in baseball with the commissioner's office. We now have a collectively bargained policy that has not yet been published, because we're still drafting our full document. But I'm happy to make a copy of our sports betting policy available to the commissioners as soon as this meeting is over. There are a number of safety measures that I won't get into, because I think that we've covered the landscape there. There are a number of important education pieces where every single player, and by the way, we used to just represent major league baseball players, about 1200 members. We have now organized minor league players, so we have over 6,000 members. And these issues may actually be more important at the minor league level, because the salaries that they make, their career length, their career stability, is not nearly what the major leaders have. And arguably, they're more susceptible to malign behavior in this area. But every single player goes through, because of our collectively bargain process, a series of educational pieces about what they need to be aware of, what resources are available to them in this area and available to their families. In terms of deference to collective bargaining agreements, because on the one hand, we're asking U.S. regulators to take an active role in certain areas, but we're also asking for a certain amount of deference in other areas, and specifically in the area of investigations, disciplinary matters. I can tell you that the office of the commissioner of baseball, and I don't believe that baseball is unique in this respect, but they have an entire investigations department that's full of former assistant U.S. attorneys, federal prosecutors, state prosecutors, and they investigate any allegations of improper betting by players, improper betting by fans, very thoroughly. Now, we represent the player, so to the extent a player is subject to potential discipline, those players have to sit for investigatory interviews. They often have to respond to information requests and turn over documents and text messages and emails and things of that nature. But the most important point I want to make here is that we have collectively bargain very important confidentiality provisions that govern all of these investigatory mechanisms that are in place, and that's very, very important to us because I can tell you from years of experience, while there are investigations that often lead to violations and players are disciplined in one form or fashion, we have also seen many, many allegations that quite frankly just boiled down to extortion attempts against players. And they're thoroughly investigated by the league, and at the end of the day the facts aren't there, the case is closed, and no action is taken, but most importantly, there's nothing that becomes public about that. Our players are unique in the sense that they live their lives in the public limelight. And allegations, even if they prove out not to be true. There are certain players where after having been entirely cleared of certain charges, if you Google their name, there's still a certain amount of taint because there were allegations made. So to the extent that anything in the regulatory framework that you were considering could afford deference to our process in terms of investigations, in terms of discipline, and in terms of appeal through arbitration or grievance arbitration process, I just think that that would be tremendously important for our players so that they have the types of due process rights that we have spent many, many weeks and months collectively bargain. So that I think with that is I'll defer to any of the other folks from the players' associations and of course, happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Well, I could add in with the NHL and the NHLPA, we do not have a detailed specific investigative procedure in regard to gambling, but we do have in the CBA a detailed provision as to how investigations are commenced, what the players' rights are, what the players' association's rights are, and ultimate access to an impartial arbitrator if discipline is assessed. So it would be very important if possible to allow us to use that process and not interfere with it. And we also have had circumstances and they're going to come up more and more frequently where investigations are commenced based upon an anonymous social media post and you investigate it and in all likelihood or sometimes in any event there's no there there. So with that, I would echo everything Matt said. Yeah, I would join with what Matt said. The NFLPA, we do have an investigatory process. It is also confidential. I personally have been involved in a number of allegations against our members involved in gambling. Involvement surprised at the level of information that the former FBI and other investigators for the league are able to generate, both which implicate and also exculpate our members. So I would also join in the ask for the deference to our process. Pressures. I guess I'm going to turn to Councilor Grossman and Director Lilios. I believe if there were suspicious activity and it involved a professional athlete, that would probably trigger some degree of investigation on our part. But it sounds as though we probably have, we can coordinate with the league, with the players association and their collective bargaining agreements to protect that confidential information under believing the public record small and perhaps the statute. But I turn to Director Lilios and Councilor Grossman on that. Well, on the public disclosure piece, our ability to withhold information is somewhat limited. We did enjoy the ability to protect certain information provided to us in the course of the application process. But that seems to be the limit of the commission's authority there specific to sports wagering. Otherwise, the public records law of course affords us an ability to protect certain information to the extent it falls in one of the exemptions that exist in the law. Unfortunately, I'd have to take a closer look at it, but the the investigatory exemption for example applies to our own investigations, not to other people's investigations generally. So to the extent we are investigating something and that disclosure of any piece of information would inhibit our ability to effectively investigate it, we can certainly withhold information. But I don't believe we would have the ability to withhold investigative information that was just provided to us from someone else so we don't compromise their investigation. So it's complicated, but we were only given limited tools to navigate some of these sensitive information areas. But it is something for us to look into again. I don't want to kind of opine conclusively that we have no ability to do any of this. It's just Director Lillios. Chair, I don't really have too much to add to what General Counsel Grossman just explained other than that the Investigations and Enforcement Bureau is well aware of the importance of confidentiality in maintaining the integrity of any investigation. And you would typically press the exemptions under the open meeting law, I'm sorry, under the public records law, both under the investigations exception and under the general personal privacy exception to the fullest extent possible. Thank you. We did trust you with the Legislature for more tools on that front. But as General Counsel Grossman said, we have what we have with the public records law. I think Mr. Eisenberg and Mr. Erickson, you're real familiar with it. So I think there would be our ability to comply fully with that law. And of course, we have to be fully committed to the transparency of the other meeting that we're required to operate then. But as Director Lillios and General Counsel Grossman pointed out, there are the public records law certainly contemplates investigations and the need for confidentiality. Other questions, commissioners, on the collective bargaining case? Are there other elements of the collective bargaining that you wanted to raise as well besides the confidentiality? Excuse me, confidentiality, please. I might add one more. I guess I'd file this under the umbrella of due process. I believe that there's been discussion about a notice procedure or putting the players' associations or individual athletes on par with the leagues or any league investigators with regard to the notice of an athlete investigation. I think that that would be incredibly important to making sure that players, if they're going to be investigated, have prompt notice. And so that either their individual attorneys, because sometimes they're represented by their own counsel or counsel from the players association who you have a number of on the Zoom here today, can ensure that their due process rights are protected. So notice parity would be the one other thing that I would like to put in a plug for. So real quick in my apologies, I lost my connection. And so I caught the tail end. Yes, yes, yes. It's funny because of course you guys are talking about some of the stuff that's even more near and dear to my heart. As many of my colleagues know, I was a prosecutor for 11 years. So due process investigations are really something I've specialized in for many years. And to piggyback on what Matt said about the information sharing, it is critical to us and our players that we're able to receive information as close in time as possible to when the leagues receive it and that we're not solely relied, we're not solely relying upon them. This is an ongoing issue I have in our league and it's been said to me in response to when I bring this up that in response to my request, they've said, this is not a criminal matter. You don't have those same rights to access information at the same time. So when I when in some hand, we do like to defer to our collective bargaining agreements, but there's certain things as my colleagues know you have to fight for and there gives and takes and sometimes you have to give certain things up. And this one's of particular importance that players should be able to have access to all the information that potentially is being used against them. And it shouldn't be, they shouldn't have to wait for it. They should in their respective council should have access. And to piggyback on that, should not have to wait and rely on the league to determine what they want to share that they have received from other authorities and filter it because that becomes a problem. And as David said, due process can be impacted if we don't get the same information that the leagues get. So it is of paramount importance to us as well. My shares follow up with questions. To our team, I think we want to be looking back at what we've passed and think about how we can address these questions. I'm leaning in Mr. Eisenberg, are you I'm leaning in to see are you leaning in? No, no, no, we appreciate it. And if they're, you know, again, if there are if there are issues where we can facilitate follow up, obviously, we spoke a couple of other ones, but on this particular issue with respect to the CPAs, we're happy to get you any information that you might require. I don't want to I want to be able to return to the two topics, but I also want to be respectful back that we discussed a matter last week concerning endorsements and concerning your younger professional players, not those who are under 18, but between 18 and up to 21. And we did adopt a regulation that would allow those younger professional players to still be able to participate in endorsements by sports betting companies. There was a very, very good conversation among all of us because we are of course concerned about not just we're concerned about the welfare of the players, but we're also concerned about whether those kinds of endorsements could inadvertently or, you know, purposefully be directed toward a targeted population that we, you know, want to protect. And that's those younger those those who are 18 to younger people who are not able to that yet. We wanted to raise them commissioners. If you want to add to that, we wondered if the players association would have any thoughts on it. You know, I think we came down to kind of a thought that well, they can be bet on perhaps they should be allowed to have the the benefit of the financial income that comes from those endorsements, but it was a healthy debate, Mr. Brian. Brian, do you want to just add in? No, so I think it was somewhat of a compromise, as you recall, there were some of us that didn't feel it anybody that shouldn't bet should actually be in any way marketing the product. And then there was the thought that if you're going to be having someone make money off of your conduct, and you're over the age of 18, that maybe that's a carve out. I would be interested in hearing from the players association thoughts on that 18, 19, 20 year old potential grouping that would fall into that category. I'm happy to speak to this issue. If for no other reason that we're actually collectively bargaining it right now as we speak, as I mentioned, we recently organized minor league baseball players who aren't exclusively between the ages of 18 and 21, but certainly there's a larger percentage of players in that age grouping then at the major league level. And what we and I don't want to get into too much of the bargaining, because we try to keep that out of the public sphere, but for purposes certainly of this discussion, I think it would be helpful to share where we're at at the big league level and where we hope to get at the minor league level, because it goes right to this question. And basically where we ended up at the big league level under our policy is that players are allowed to use their names, images and likenesses to sponsor or to market legal sports gaming operations. Now there are certain lines that we've drawn. So for example, if you are Kike Hernandez of the Boston Red Sox, you can do a deal with MGM or with FanDuel, but you can't do a deal where you say when I bet on baseball, I bet with FanDuel. So we've tried to take a nuanced and hopefully elegant approach to allowing players partake in what is a rapidly expanding and very lucrative business market, while at the same time not crossing any lines, they're going to call into question the integrity of actual games being played. So that's the big league level. We negotiated that and we got to yes on that. We have proposed to take the same approach at the minor league level as well. We're still in the middle of collective bargaining. We're not quite sure where it's going to end up. But we certainly, at least from the players associations perspective, believe that it can be done in a responsible way. There are lines that can be drawn. So that if you are an 18 to 21 year old, as he said, people can bet on you if they're especially for these players who are making, at least until we negotiate something better below poverty wages, better for them to monetize their name, image and likeness rights. So maybe they're not quite as susceptible to the, as we mentioned before, the malign actors who may try and get involved with, you know, tainting the outcome of games. So that's a very long winded way of saying that we would be in favor of in a responsible fashion, enabling that age group young, though they may be to partake in sponsorship or marketing or other legitimate business activities in the sphere. So at least from our standpoint for the moment, our members are prohibited from endorsing gambling products that may or may not change, but at least at the moment, that's not an area where our members are permitted to participate. So I guess I have a follow-up question. But when you're saying they're allowed to do endorsements that fall sort of within the legal sphere, would not being able to actually partake in betting in a jurisdiction mean they're outside the sphere? I understood your definition of that agreement? So if I understand the question correctly, it's, so if you were a 19-year-old in a jurisdiction where you have to be 21 as opposed to a jurisdiction where you're 18 and up is okay. Yeah, I think in our view, I think we would be open to enabling, even if a player himself were not permitted to legally bet to be involved in certain types of endorsement activities. Again, it's a fluid situation. We do not yet have a minor league policy like we do a major league policy, but I would not rule it out now. Thanks for the clarification. Mr. Foster, I think you were leaving it. Yes, I just I'm just going to quickly add that from the basketball players perspective that we agree with Matt and his and their analysis, we think that there are going to be some players that actually their entire career might be between the ages of 18 and 21. And our players are well aware of the fact that there's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars made by the betting companies and a lot of other people off of their labor and to prohibit them even at that young age from having the opportunity to share in some of that revenue. We just think that it's a little bit unnecessary. And also, I think it'll be interesting from the gaming company's perspective. I mean, look, I'm not in marketing, but I just the upside of actually using a 19 year old to advertise your betting, I think that some of them might very well shy away from it because it does seem a little unseemly. However, if it tastesly done, maybe it can happen. And if so, we definitely want to support our players, you know, take advantage of that. Mr. Erickson, Mr. Oh, OK, you're right. Mr. Erickson, can I just make it just to clarify with respect to the NFL, those types of endorsements, not necessarily endorsement of a betting product, like a particular bet, but you're saying endorsement of a sports wagering operator business is prohibited across the line regardless of age for all players? That's correct. At the moment, the NFL's gambling policy prohibits that. OK, it does create an issue for our members who are and who may have thought their careers were over and have moved into that sphere. And now are suddenly thinking that I want to come back. It has created an issue for those who want to come back. So at the moment, endorsement of gambling products or gambling entities is prohibited. OK. Hi, Jeff. Yes, sure. Matt, could you elaborate a little bit? I think I heard you say that at the MLB level, the majors, that the 18 to 20 would be allowed to have this endorsement, but with restrictions on what they could say and what they could do in that advertising. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? And if possible, publicly, because I know it's collective bargaining. Some of that language might be very helpful to us in our regulations, actually. Can I just clarify an instrument on that one? Were your remarks limited to the 18 to 21 or was it with respect to all players? Well, we don't have any age limitations in our Major League Sports betting policy. We do have not a lot, but we do have some players who were younger than 21. So this applies to everyone equally, regardless of age. I will send a copy and maybe I'll rely on the folks from Freddie to forward along, but I'm happy to share the language. It will be part of our collective bargaining agreement that is published widely to the public as soon as lawyers like me can get all of the language finalized today. We're working on it, but the one area that is final and ready to go is our sports betting policy. We'll get that to you. To answer the question is where we've drawn the line, and I won't get into the nitty gritty of the language, but let me maybe use an example here. Players are not able to do, let's say commercials, a commercial that would run on television that advertises or promotes betting on baseball. So to the extent that Fox Woods Casino, for example, you're able to bet on baseball games there. If a Boston Red Sox player wanted to promote Fox Woods Casino and they have a sports book, he can do that, but it has to be the sort of general either hotel or it can't be specific to baseball, and there can't be any suggestion whatsoever that the player himself bets on baseball games. So that's really, we've tried to wall off anything relating to baseball, but understanding that a lot of these sports betting entities are really parts of much broader, whether it's MGM, much broader corporations, that's what's still fair game, is if it's divorced from baseball, it's more in the context of the overall enterprise, baseball players are allowed to do it. I'm probably not doing the best job explaining here. Hopefully, when you have the language, it'll make it a little more okay, good, good. Very helpful. Madam Chair. And so when we were having this robust debate the other day on this issue, Matt, you know, my assumption, and maybe I was assuming too much, was that agreements like that exist, and that there would be guardrails amongst what could be said or done. Obviously, nowhere in my brain did I envision that a player can say, oh, you know, come bet on my sport or my game. I grew up too close to Cincinnati to know better than that. But I think that it's important to me, and I, you know, it's something that I discussed the other day, that I don't stand in the way of a contract and a revenue generating ability for a young player when you have a situation where there's no question about 21 and up, right? So if, you know, if our regulations are going to allow 21 and up, I feel like we have to capture that 18 to 21. So that's where I was coming from. Your statement was very, very helpful in helping me understand kind of the parameters of what exists right now. The one, I appreciate that. The one thing I'll add to that is, in some ways, with respect to 18 to 21 year olds, we're already there because you really these days cannot turn on a professional baseball game or basketball game or football game without seeing what seems like sometimes a never ending stream of advertisements for sports betting entities or even broadcasters who are folding in spreads and lines and over unders into their televised or streaming products. And those are all happening alongside the names, image and likenesses of players who are playing in those games, many of whom are 18 to 21. So in some ways, I think that the the horse is out of the barn on this. And that's not to say that we just throw our hands up and say that it shouldn't be looked at at all. But as I said before, to the extent that it can be responsibly done, and these players in the younger age groups can can take advantage of their publicity rights, we certainly want to protect that ability. Commissioner, do you want to go back to either the two topics or we have another topic? I know we're running a little bit long, but I feel it's helpful for us to have this information in real time. Christopher Hill. Madam Chair, I just want to add one more thing. Matt, we keep coming to you because you're the last person that we talked to. But this is this is for everybody.  One of the reasons that this last issue came up is something we call responsible gaming. Which is very near and dear to every one of us on this commission. So I would look to you that when you're doing your collective bargaining, or at the very least, when you're discussing these issues, that you understand the responsible gaming piece of why we're discussing this. It's very important, not just here in Massachusetts, but nationwide, and every single jurisdiction is dealing with responsible gaming. So as you're having your discussions internally or externally, we would ask that you remember the responsible gaming piece of what we're trying to do as we will understand and remember what you're asking us to do today. Thank you, Madam Chair. So I just want to turn, did you want to respond, Mr. Nosmo? Please do. No, I just understood in point well taken. I have to turn back to item number one. We do have wide discretion in our regulatory powers, and I would imagine that as long as there is a channel for us to hear about threats, and that's something I want assurances from our IEV team, that somehow we have the proper channels to hear of any threats that are being made to players, their families, officials, or anyone else who is making up this form of entertainment of sports, never mind sports betting. If it's sports betting related, we will assess that and take it seriously. I have a hard time imagining that the players, never mind their family members, are subject to this kind of harassment or threatening language, physical harm. So we need to make sure, commissioners, I believe, I think you can probably join me in this, making sure that the channels for this information are connected. And looking at Director Wells, you're on camera, but I'm sure you're thinking the same thing. You were the former director of IEV. I understand that the leagues get information, players association get information, they should be able to get to us, correct? Yes, yes. And we, you know, the IEV already has contacts within law enforcement and also things like this, where we're making contacts with people in the leagues and we're making contacts with people in the players associations and then other associations. So the information network is very important because we do care about what happens to the players and their families and referees and everyone involved in sports. So we are certainly open to any information that pertains to someone's health and well-being to see what if anything is appropriate for us to do. And we will look to the licensees. So we're going to work on the regulation language to make sure that we can address the safety and well-being of the players. And I think, commissioners, we're going to at least want to have that information clear and then we assess our next steps. But from my perspective, that's going to be a paramount, that we ensure that in Massachusetts no one can intimidate officials, family members, and the athletes themselves, they're being bet on to provide entertainment, entertainment for the residents of Massachusetts. And the licensees are being awarded the opportunity to operate in Massachusetts and soon they're going to join us in that effort. So that's just my thought. I'm very pleased that you brought this matter to my attention and we will continue to figure out the best way to manage it in a regulatory fashion. Commissioners, I'm speaking for myself now. I turn to you if you want to add in or in some way direct me in any way. I would just echo what you said, Madam Chair, the conundrum of an industry making its money off of the actions and the hard work of other individuals. The primary responsibility would rest with the companies making that money. And then also with the other companies that make the money in the first instance off the work of the athletes. So I do believe we can play a role in making sure that it's equitable and protect where we can. There is a limit. Obviously our statutory limit only goes so far. But I am glad we had this conversation. I absolutely think that we need to be as aggressive as we can in our regulations to make sure we make as much of an impact as we're capable of making. Let's just get here. Player safety is something that I think this commission should absolutely prioritize. Not only the players, but their families, officials. And I will await our legal advice from Attorney Grossman as to whether or not we do have the authority. I believe that we do to some extent. But how far we extend that authority I think is an open discussion. And so I'm looking forward to having that discussion with my fellow commissioners. And I appreciate you coming before us today to share your thoughts around how the commission might be able to help protect the industry, the most valuable players in the industry. I forgot you now thinking it. So your life like that. I just wanted to say thank you to our commissioners and to all the commissioners and to you, Madam Chair, for this opportunity. It really has been an amazing dialogue. And we're just very appreciative that you have been able to hear the concerns that we've outlined. And we look forward to working with you going forward. Feel free to reach out to us at any time. And on the last point raised, I would say I understand why you would say responsibility for safety should rest primarily with the people running the business. That is the gaming company. But keep in mind the gaming company has no relationship whatsoever with the players. So we have to rely on you and ourselves to do the best things we can. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification, Mr. Fair. They're very helpful. Thank you. Other other dialogue can continue. I want to make sure everyone has their last word that they want to share on any topic, including the one that we just addressed. Hand out anybody? Okay. Commissioner Hill, Commissioner Maynard, are you all set? I have nothing further to add except thank you for being here today. We appreciate the dialogue. And I've been looking forward to it for quite some time. So thank you. It was very, very good conversation. Well, Commissioner Maynard. I appreciate everyone coming today, taking time to educate us and listening to all your concerns. And as Commissioner Skinner pointed out, we're going to weigh everything. We're going to look at everything. We're going to see what we can do and can't do. And I think that, you know, player safety is paramount. Excellent. I'll set then to our guests. Thank you. And then as we noted, we'll keep the dialogue going. If there's anything that you'd like to submit to us, I know we're going to get some information from you already, but anything we welcome that very, very much. To all of your players, we wish them the very best. And the same to their families and to the officials. So thank you. And we've just commented. We were all busy watching a lot of professional sports over the weekend. So thank you for all that we do to entertain so many of us. Thank you. And so, commissioners. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Chair, I would move to adjourn. Thank you, Commissioner. Second. Any further discussion or edits? Okay, Commissioner O'Brien? Aye. Commissioner Hill? Aye. Commissioner Skinner? Aye. Commissioner Maynard? Aye. And I vote yes. Thanks so much. 5-0. Thank you. Thank you.


Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Stepping Up, I'm your host, Daniel Dubois. This week we do a highlight and reflect on the Ministry of Education's year and for Linkup, I chat with Dancer and creative Shatoya Jababtees. This year was an interestingly challenging year for the education sector. Parents, students, teachers and administration all had to adjust to the new normal that COVID-19 has brought on, from classrooms to e-books, from the chalkboard to online learning platforms. This year was unprecedented and saw major growth, flexibility and innovation from everyone involved. Everyone basically had to step up and do what had to be done to ensure that learning continues taking into consideration health and safety. As Stepping Up winds down for the year, we wanted to chat with the PS of the Department of Education, Innovation and Generations, Michelle Charles, to get some more insight on the vision for St. Lucia's education sector and how they continue to adapt and move on with their mandate. We spoke about TVET and opportunities for persons to continue their education, the sporting academy among other initiatives by the Ministry of Education. Let's take a look at the interview. To end our season is Ms. Charles, the PS of the Department, Ms. Charles. Thank you very much, Daniel, for agreeing to feature Ministry of Education on the program, especially now is a good time because though it's the end of the program for you at least this season, it's a very good time to feature education. Yes, I think so because I was just curious. It has been an interesting year and I don't want to use bad because everybody know the year has been tumultuous. I would allow you, let's start with, let's reflect on the year. You know a lot has happened from school closing and opening, trying again and the closure so as PS let's just talk about that. For this year for us at the Ministry of Education, it has been a year that has shown us our levels of flexibility, agility, and our levels of responsiveness as a Ministry. It has also been given as the opportunity where we got to see the best in people, but of course they are the challenging times, but I'm happy to say that as a Ministry that we're not battling all of this all by ourselves and we have, I'm surrounded by a team of persons who help us make the best decisions for the Ministry of Education, trying as the circumstances may be, but we've been managing and I expect it to get better. What would you say are some of the highlights of the year? One of the major highlights for us this year was us being able to push forward our ICT agenda. I know we have gotten a lot of bashing as it relates to Ministry of Education and devices and persons not having access, but for us at the Ministry it has been a priority integrating ICT into education and we were well on the path to doing so. However, with the impact of COVID, this has really pushed us to get us to do this quicker than we anticipated and so that was one of the challenges, but it's also a highlight for us because currently we are providing our teachers and students with devices and this has helped accelerate our ICT into education integration. Now I know before COVID that ICT, that education agenda, if ICT and the blended aspect and bring it in within the classrooms for assessment etc, has been there before COVID and we know that because of COVID now it had to basically push you all to do it a lot faster. So since we know that the ICT program has always been a part of education, what would you say is the general vision of education now for St. Lucia? What is it that you guys are looking to achieve in the next year? For us we are really about ensuring that first no child is left behind and also to be able to graduate citizens who are able to compete globally and that means providing them with all of the necessary skills and that they would require to be able to compete in this global environment. We know that our world at the moment is very technical, technology drives things and ICT integration is the key component for us as it relates to having those featured, those subject areas featured in our curriculum. So we want to ensure that our students are able to graduate with the skills that would allow them to function effectively and be competitive on a global scale. We know that recently e-books were, how many e-books were distributed island-wide? That's a major project for us at the Ministry of Education. We initially thought we could have started off with a pilot of 3000 devices. We said we would have distributed those at 13 of our secondary schools where those students would have chosen their subjects at the end of form 2 and would have allowed us to monitor the effectiveness of this system or of this project over a three-year basis. So we rolled out that pilot in February at 13 of our schools and then come March there was COVID and students were home and we realized that many of our students did not have the necessary devices. The students who had gotten the initial set of e-books were privileged in that it allowed them to continue their education online and the duty of this is that it already has content aligned to the CSEC syllabus and so we decided that we were going to go full-fledged now in ensuring that we are able to bridge that gap. So we rolled out the second part of our e-books initiative in September with some the same 13 schools but now we are going to be rolling it out into the other nine secondary schools on Ireland so by the end of December moving into the second term all of our students at least from form 2 to form 4 within our secondary schools are going to be provided with e-book devices. And what makes the e-book devices that what makes that program stand out from other programs that were attempted in the past? In the case of our current project what I really like about it is that there is content already there's the content already aligned to the CSEC syllabus but it also allows for our students to do carry out simulations and labs especially for the science students because we know that the labs components of the sciences can be very expensive at the schools because you need to buy all of the the chemicals and the various agents required and if students are able to do that on their own within a virtual setting it means a child who may not have grasped the concept in class can still go home and do the lab a million times until you figure it and get it right. So I like the interactive nature of that device. Nice so and we know that COVID-19 has really shine a light on a lot of our inadequacies and our weaknesses as a system. What do you have to say to teachers now who there's a lot of talk talking about fatigue and you know with new problems and new solutions you have you still have new problems? Well for me I'm very optimistic and I would like to our teachers to see this as an opportunity for them to develop themselves further. There's opportunity in diversity I always see and of course our teachers are very challenged at this time especially in some cases where they have no devices some persons I like to say are kind of e-averse in terms of using the electronic media for teaching but this is an opportunity that we the teachers get to embrace and learn for themselves and I must say to that many of our teachers are embracing what we refer to now as the new normal. Initially when we started off in March into the third term there was this hesitation and the learning curve was kind of steep but now we notice that there is a reduction in the in the learning curve it's not as steep as it used to be that means our teachers are embracing the technology and I would like to encourage them to do so. The ministry is also providing has provided and will continue to provide a number of training opportunities for our teachers and I would like them to get on board because this is only going to enhance their skill sets moving forward. As you mentioned training opportunities what are some of the other exciting things that the ministry is still ensuring to to send out and to provide for our our citizens? Ministry of Education our some of our strategic priorities of course the first one everybody knows is ICT in education but what I have always referred to as sometimes the best kept secret within the ministry is our TVET policy in terms of how we are going to get the nation industry people to recognize that TVET is as equally of importance as other academic areas to say and so we're focusing heavily on the components of technical and vocational education and training so this is another strategic priority for us at the Ministry of Education and to that end we are moving heavily towards increasing our pool of assessors and verifiers within the ministry within the community the society at large ensuring that we have a number of our CVQs developed so we could allow our secondary school children they can they too can graduate not only with CSEC subjects but also with CVQs we need to we're in the process of promoting CVQs in a big way especially to industry and to tertiary level educated institutions because you want a child who would have graduated say with in plumbing somebody who has a capacity or passion for say plumbing electrical tiling that you can graduate with some portable qualification and that you may decide okay I have my level two or three CVQ certificates that should be able to grant me admittance into the South Elwiss Community College so we are promoting that and also for our employers in terms of ensuring that they can recognize and accept a student who has a CVQ qualification be it level one two three four recognize there must be proper qualifications to accept them into the world of work the world of work um t vet and you know we you're very big on getting opportunities available for persons what and do you guys have opportunities for persons who probably did not complete secondary school I know that t vet is something that's accessible what about the repeating of secondary school years like the last from four from five you know I think a lot of people right now are interested in returning to school like those who probably dropped out or for whatever reason wasn't able to complete their formal education what are the other opportunities besides t vet that they can access for us we recognize that there is need to always have interventions for our citizens our students you mentioned the dropouts we have an increasing dropout rate that we really want to work on and curb so for us we're working closely with k and k has a program called the adolescent development program and we recently got them to adopt the jlp which is the junior life program and these provide pathways for other students who would not have been able to maybe successfully navigate through secondary school as you know talking to the group of persons who went to trinidad to get yes so we had yes we had teachers who were trained in the junior life program and the adolescent development program so we have trained the teachers within our school setting we have also augmented the staff at care and we have a group we have a memorandum of understanding with care which allows us to be able to you know dive with our students those who are interested in following that program the beauty of this thing with care is that after those students have started these students have started the junior life program after they have met you know the competencies required these students can now reintegrate into a secondary school or they could continue with the care program which allows them to graduate with cvqs at the end of this so you know there are various pathways for our students that we were looking to you know to make a creative awareness of so if they were interested in doing that i guess they just contact the ministry or yes you can leave because of the ministry of education or you can go directly to care because the facility is there it's available and it's open to to persons all right um the grizzly sporting academy let's talk about that of course that's another baby for us at the ministry of education the st lucas sports academy you know initially we were thinking of centers of excellence and we were looking at two facilities and we've been able to make much progress with the former grizzly secondary school which has now been re-established as the st lucas sports academy currently we have over a hundred students in house there's been great uptake this year because we had about 40 42 new students enrolled into the program this year this is new it's different it has never happened in st lucas where you have students come into school and live in on doors it's almost like a boarding school kind of thing yes so our students are there they it's a combination of both academic and sporting programs that have been offered to the students the feedback from parents and students very positive for us the little glitch in the system has to do with maybe some of our infrastructural works that we were hoping to be completed by now but we're making some progress and i'm expecting that by the end of this school year the sports academy should be well equipped to be able to provide the kind of facility that we expect a sports academy to look like but i'm i can also say with pride that we've get we've been getting a lot of interest from regional and now scientists to pick up on it yes not only local but the number of regional and international and that's an option as well yes it is eventually let us just let us just consolidate what we have make it into a real sound program and the principal and the team who work at the sports academy they are very competent i have a good group of guys and girls ladies at the academy and the boys themselves are very excited that was very excited when school reopened so it's any boys now we have girls we initially started last year with only boys but we have we have a few girls in the program and they started it was like a small number like 20 or something like that yes we probably had just about 30 students initially but that number has grown yes that number has grown and we are focusing on those three sporting components of cricket athletics and football a lot of successes for the ministry of education this year and how old are they as a year pastors yet yes they're just a little over a year we started in in september of 2019 yes so it's just about that time i would have if it wasn't for covid then we would have had great opportunity to really evaluate the program but so far it's been very successful our students are they're very happy with where they're at even their parents to commend the ministry in terms of give it of developing that pathway for our students because the real vision of the sports academy is to ensure our students have a different pathway those who wish to pursue a current sport they could become you know professional athletes whether it in their field but also open up other gateways for them so if you want to become a sports therapist whatever it is event manager in terms of sports then that avenue is open to you and it's clear that the the the mandate of the ministry is to diversify learning options definitely through ict through tvet through the special through the sports etc so in hopefully by the next year two years we really see this this momentum start to pick up with the ministry there's so much scope for a lot of things to happen within the ministry of education we have been doing a lot there is a lot going on and maybe that's why you don't hear all what we're doing because we're so busy ensuring that we get things out but there's a lot going on within the ministry of education and we'd be happy to sit with you at any other time to discuss our various initiatives well ps child's congratulations on all the work spending and being the team lead behind all of this that the ministry has been able to achieve this year and the previous years final words from you and anything you'd like to to touch on yes i would definitely want to extend all of the the congratulations that you just the extended to me to my team because by myself i'm just the administrative head the the accounting officer within the ministry however i have some very competent technical persons who i work with and i really have to extend my gratitude to them for being as supportive especially in these trying times while other persons or departments can probably sometimes work from home or be on rotation my team has been here for the most part just about every day so i really need to thank them i also want to thank our teachers our parents and our students our ancillary staff within our schools for being patients with us we know it's a difficult time but the ministry really has the best interest of our stakeholders at heart and so we're looking as we move forward we're all going through this challenge together that at the end of it we all come out better for it yes so thank you for this opportunity for sharing with st lucia to what happens within the ministry of education well i want to say thank you and we heard it from the lady herself thank you very much you're most welcome daniel tired of battling large numbers of mosquitoes in the comfort of your home the more you fight the more defeated you feel how about taking on a longer lasting solution ensure that drums or buckets are properly covered after each use drain and dispose of any unwanted containers to reduce potential breeding grounds for mosquitoes do not allow tires to collect water on your property fill them with soil to make your own vegetable gardens or plant flowers polydispose garbage can collect water use secure bins when disposing of garbage in order to reduce mosquito breeding keep vegetation low to allow daylight in and remove hiding places for mosquitoes and other pests check your roof gutters regularly to prevent mosquito breeding regularly inspect your property for signs of mosquitoes following these tips once a week can reduce the population of mosquitoes in and around your home for more information visit or call the environmental health division in Wadawash Grosely at 468-3700 or 468-3737 thank you miss jals for sitting down to chat with us we wish you and the ministry all the best as you guys continue moving forward now it's time for link up with more than 10 years experience in the performing arts industry should turn it about teased training extents from dance styles such as african soca traditional folk dance all contemporary and modern to educating and directing she has represented Saint Lucia at numerous regional and international cultural dance exchanges and dance exposés currently she's a senior student at Towson University where she studies theater arts theater design and production with a focus in scenic design to date she has designed sets for the university and started sure 758 let's take a look at our link-up interview how are you shatoya and thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview thank you so much for having me i'm doing good how are you i'm doing all right i'm doing all right and how has COVID-19 touched you this year i know it's it's you know as a creative it hasn't been easy but how are things it hasn't been easy my classes are all on standby school is online which is kind of a good thing i'm in Saint Lucia which is also a good thing but i'm not creating as much as i want to yeah i mean it has to go in the bad yeah nice so just give um our Saint Lucia audience you know give us a little background on you we know that you're studying overseas let's us let us know what exactly you're studying and we're going to take it back from there okay no problem so i moved to the states like probably three years ago and i started um my bachelor's in theater arts when you get into like your last two years you have to select your major and there was acting dance stage management light and design and scenic design so i selected scenic design and the reason being is my mom is a decorator so i've always been around like like i wasn't raised normally like in my house you had a rich life experience that you know molded you into this type of field okay my mom will match the curtains with the cushions and the rug like my mom wasn't simple so growing up in that atmosphere of always like being handsy being into the into craft it was easy for me to go into scenic design so scenic design is basically like the architect of what the architect is to reality is what scenic design is to theater so basically we design and create the space that the play is going going into or um the dance production has to be in so it's everything except the props and the actors right nice and you chose a very interesting field because you know in St. Lucia we now have uh i would like to say that our theater field is now starting to reemerge and you know COVID-19 it wasn't really a good year for all the actors but i'm sure you know as a stage designer it's not only for theater it's for events it's for for concerts it's everything it's for film everything so let us know a little bit about sure seven five eight you know you have your balm um i don't have the audience know but you've you're an avid member you were an avid member of silver shadows and now you've actually created your own thing so let's talk about sure seven five eight all right no problem so sure actually began i don't want to say accidentally but where i am now was not where i thought i'd be when i started which is a good thing um sure emerged from the fact that when i went to the state i had no avenue for dance i had no um place that i could go to to express myself so i had to create my own um and with that i started dance classes curvy and dance classes in Baltimore like what are you charging for your classes nice yeah and i'm sure because of what's sold out eventually i only had two classes when i had people out of like 15 classes majority of my classes were empty so instead of like saying okay i'll go home um since there's no one at class no i took that time to practice on myself so that's what should actually emerge so right now sure is a choreographer singing designer and dancer so sure is me and i yeah and i live and breathe the arts yeah and i think it's nice that you say sure is you because sometimes we like to compartmentalize the things that you can do as an artist but then i think it's nice when you start to brand yourself and you're able to to offer all of these different services it really helps you grow and it really gets people to start to see and understand what the walk of a creative artist is so we know that when you came down your your classes were packed in st lucha though you understand so let's talk about that my first set of classes i was really nervous to do it because you know like when you come up with a new idea in st lucha people are like would i do things she is why i don't want to do that all kind of questions so i was i questioned myself a lot but i said you know what i'll just buy the bullets and i'll go ahead so i went ahead i had my first class um my first class was free and then i started charging after that and after the buddhoom class like it just it just grew it just took away like sure is bigger than myself as much as i am sure it stands for a lot more than i even could imagine yeah yeah and i know that show um you continued to um be a champion for denry segments and you carried it with you every way you go um and you know it was nice seeing that growth and development from doing your classes and getting the hype from the buddhoom and then you know what it's like you start to realize yourself as this ambassador to music and dance and get st lucha icon so how was it what was probably your most memorable moment or memory of you know letting people who've never heard denry segment before actually experience the music wow that's a really tough one um wow i would say the most memorable was buddhoom by kuya and the reason i'd say that is i created that choreography i don't want to say very simply but it just came really natural as compared to my other choreographies and i just never expected it to go like that and the way everyone just took it and everyone was having fun like me seeing my movement on kpop and the way that they just have fun with it is what i love so in that moment when it was recognized and people were sharing it and it got so many views i was like wow i'm actually i'm doing the right thing like i'm on the right path like yeah it was like a validation for me yeah yeah yeah that's that's that's really interesting to know so sure that's as we wrap up what message do you have for st luchans you know and if if they didn't know you have your the owner managing director show seven five eight you also decorate spaces you choreograph um choreograph pieces for anybody who wants to have a creative piece with dance let them know what that experience is like and what advice do you have for anyone who might want to i call these things creative vibes you know because it's not it's not you know so let us know so my experience as a creative um there's so much to say on it but i'm going to be very short it has changed my life um theater and dance have changed me and molded me into the individual that i am and there are so many benefits of it and to the public i want to say let me change that to the parents of individuals who are artists i'll be very specific allow them to grow allow them to create there are so many times um i see students who say i want to study acting i want to do this but my parents but my parents yeah parents allow these creatives to grow because we are what the parents are doing they're quieting the next generation of creatives and if you look at semen we are based on arts and culture like just let them grow give them a chance listen to them encourage them and that's an important point and i haven't thought about that in a while and that's something that really used to hook me um especially when i used to teach theater arts like you would see just the i don't want to say ignorance but just um thinking towards oh my god theater arts what's that you know and um why why you know and a lot of people but i i hope like you know people like you and you know people like me in different spheres as well are the ambassadors to groom that next generation of actors and dancers and creatives and i know that's probably part of your plan because you've brought in so many people into the free with your videography with your your your designs and even other clothing line as well with the same show 758 so yeah i mean um and another point i would say to the artists this time is i know what we are doing a lot of people see as strange or people see it as um like if you ask someone if someone asks you what are you what's your job and you say i'm an artist they're like oh what's your backup plan like we need to normalize that it's okay to be an artist and i'm not going to say creating the clothing line um collaborating with different dancers and videographers is easy but it has made me grow into the person that i am and it has made i learn from each video and each video after has been better than first so just keep growing as an artist that's what and as we and as you continue your your your work shatoya i want to see keep stepping up i know that you still try to do little things in terms of bringing out different themes i saw your video and trying to highlight depression and mental illness you know and that's form of artistic expression using the form of dance so just just continue doing what you're doing yeah so i don't know if you have anything else to say but you know i think we've come to the end of our little interview shatoya thank you thanks for having me if this was fun i enjoyed it all right thank you honey all right looks like we are the end of our show for now and for the season i want to thank you so much for joining us as we followed so many stories and journeys of singlutions hey and abroad doing amazing things flying our flag high making us proud and surely inspiring someone i'm your host daniel dubois seasons greetings and all the best for the new year see you soon be safe and don't forget to keep stepping up