o this is actually a very, very interesting topic. Ruheel does a very good job with curating in a gender. And I think the kind of topics he has been giving me. He is also quite well suited for a television thing that like he can he has this potential of creating very provocative topics to discuss. So today's discussion is that you know when and how is something I would want to know, but who brought down the level of media discourse? Now he is not questioned. He's written this as a statement of fact that it has come down and a day before we had our first edition of top 50 rankings for political spokesperson. And we had several discussions perhaps almost everyone, you know, Univoke Lee said that blamed it on the anchors and that is why we got this idea of, you know, bringing anchors and spokesperson together to understand who exactly is responsible. I think Mr. Rana has also stepped out. I'm the only one right now on the panel. Ms. Chaurup Raikea is just joining us. I think she is there. She's just switching on her camera. Okay. So Rana Ji, if you can give me some idea of, you know, so that most of these spokesperson's blamed it on you, because our anchors keep the same topics. They don't want to talk about infrastructure. They don't want to talk about health. They don't want to talk about education. They only want to talk about very provocative topics. So why do you blame us? So if I can have your first view on that. Sir, your audio offer. It is viewed. Now, you have a big foundation and there is no new in the country. For the last few years, the question keeps rolling. And if you go to many people, then it comes to you and stands that the debate in the television channels, why is the standard of the basic questions removed? And why is that in the fight, in the fight, in the garland, in the garland, in the garland, in the garland? I think there are two or four reasons for this. The first reason is the race of TRP. And the viewer in that race is the biggest income. The viewer of this country, in any news, in any debate, in any conversation, shows a lot of interest. The channel's focus is on those news or on those subjects.  With the panelists, the debate is intense. And it is viewed for a long time through the students. We start calling those panelists again. So, you will see a group that stands on all the TV channels. Some people are sitting here at 5, they will be seen somewhere else at 6, they will be seen somewhere else at 7. So, these are the Pujaris who make the Yajna. So, you will see that they have made the Yajna in the morning, made the Yajna in the morning, and made the Yajna in the evening. Because they know how to make it. And that good Pujari is considered Yajna. So, Mahajan is good, that is why I have called him. So, in the TV channels, some anchors have been prepared. And they have been prepared as well. Because of that, there are some others as well. Not just these. But they have connected themselves with some issues. They have established their identity there. Because they are the anchors of this type of Rujhan. Or the reporters of this type of Rujhan. And the panelists of the same type of Rujhan have also met. So, there will be a community. So, you will see that two types of communities will be seen on TV channels. In terms of the anchors and the panelists as well. So, one anchor... I am asking this to you. I understood this. I mean, three years ago, once, Shahrukh Khan asked someone, why do you make such movies? He said, I do it. But there is a difference. Journalism is also about responsibility. It is about having, taking a moral stand. Acting is not the fourth pillar of democracy. Media is, right? So, we can't get away by saying, this is the environment, this is the difference. So, we are seeing this. With journalism, ethics and morals are also coming. We have to give people certain things that we... We feel that we are also... We should be taken seriously. Otherwise, it has literally become that there are very few thin lines. Who is acting in films? And who is acting in news channels? After listening to you, I was coming to your question.  What do you say to the audience? My phone came in between.  What do you keep looking for? What is the matter? Why don't you go home on time? There are two questions in your mind. They are in all newspapers. As soon as you leave, I am not leaving. I was just showing you a page with which the audience of this country is prepared to say, no, this is TV journalism. This is TV journalism. It is a part of it. You have prepared one opinion with this part. But whatever TV journalism has done or is doing, you simply leave. First of all, there is a crisis in the country today. And with this electricity crisis, there is a discussion on all channels. And this discussion is not just a small issue. There is a problem for 2, 4, 5, 10 years. In front of this country, there is a big problem of natural resource, which is caused by electricity. It is of water and coal. If the future generations want to live without water and coal, then there is an alternative source of water and coal. And where will it come from? So, the discussion is long and goes far. The question is, what is your opinion? What is your opinion? How much does the society think of the Indian society? If I argue according to you, then you think it is right. But when I argue according to the country and society, then it has its own opinions, it has its own context. So, the society and the country have their rights. But the discussion between 2 or 3 times is a fight of TRP. But according to that, if you have started giving the same rights to the community journalists who work in TV channels or TV channels, then you have started giving the same rights. You have started giving the same rights. You have started giving the same rights. You have started giving the same rights. Mr. Charu also said there were other spokespersons also. They also said that they called us because they want to have conversations like that. Otherwise, they also have this urge to engage in much more meaningful conversations which are more about infrastructure or education or issues that we as citizens would want the government to address. So we thought we will have you now speak directly with Mr. Yashwan. Where is it that the problem lies? Thank you, Nazia. It's wonderful to see you again. And thanks for conveying that, Yashwan Ji Namaste. So, when we were together on a panel and we were sitting at different parties, I was also on that panel. It happened that there was so much extreme discussion on TV these days. And if someone wants to talk calmly and talk on the issue, we do not get the to talk about agendas which we feel are more important. So, when your topic will be Hanuman Chalisa, you will not be able to tell the list of people in the country. And that becomes a concern. And obviously, in this panel I also said that where does the fault lie? We need to analyze it now. Is it that people want to see the issue because of TRP? Channels pick these issues. Anchors pick these issues. And then they come to discuss. If you leave business channels or niche channels their issues are like this. And then it is said that this political party spokesperson does not talk about work. He discusses these issues. But people forget that if you look at the topic of the debate, the topic is one sided or the topic is in which there are two political spectrums in our country these days. Whether the parties are fighting each other and on principle they disagree with each other whether something universal will be the truth. Just for the sake of disagreement disagreements start and fights start. And as a result as a viewer I don't really walk out with any kind of new information. I don't get much from this. That is my complaint. I am sitting for an hour and everyone these days has a very busy schedule. I will take an hour and I will go to any entertainment channel. If this is what I want to see. So now come Rohil do we have other panelists or we only have Charu and Rana for now? I will answer Charu's question. Yes of course. Actually in this country there are 135 crore people and they also watch TV channels. The content and deciding unit of channels how does it work? It is very important to understand. It works with politics. The arguments that are against power and power they talk a lot and gradually it is believed that it is interesting whether or not. If people do not see that kind of discussion then the news slowly goes out. But I want to know that in this country is there an economic issue? Is there a non-economic issue in this country? Is there a Karoli issue in this country? But BJP and Congress these two arguments are very serious. We are doing something or there are such arguments that the government has done and it is very important. On the other hand, the government has never given a long speech against the government. But Rana, you call us on these issues. I will tell you the truth is when you call BJP and Congress today we will discuss on the price. So BJP will ask his audience not to go to Congress when you go to a topic that suits BJP and not Congress. The truth is I want to come to you on that. The problem in this country is that before when we were much younger than now there was a point when this suddenly became a decline. We used to have these issues because religion, sensationalism are important to Indians people. But even now if it becomes 2 times then it works. It happens 8 times and sometimes 2 times so is there also somewhere there is a lack of political will. There is an agenda that comes through you or what he is saying that there are channels where people don't send because those channels want to talk about issues that perhaps the government is not comfortable talking about. Respectfully there is only one channel where BJP does not send spokesperson and that is because it is on a question of respect. No other reason and we are stuck to that. That doesn't mean there are no other channels which discuss difficult issues. There are also alternative programs where complicated issues are discussed. It is possible that the people who speak on those issues are less because there is a need to study them. There is a need for preparation which is the extremist issue which is the issue of the Hindu-Muslim type.  Whereas if you want to discuss things like that, you will have to study a lot more and you will have to get some statistics and data. Learn that and put that out on television for people to understand in an easy way. What I have started thinking is that an image has been made of news channels and even today there are news channels. I am not generalizing but I am saying that the mainstream news that has been seen has become very loud. There are few channels where there are fights and there is no news on news. I want to come back to what Rana Ji said that when we contact you on difficult issues, you don't come. So they have to immediately keep these issues. No, not at all. I am not agree with Rana Ji because all the complicated issues we go to them, whether it is legal issues, economic issues, or taxation issues. But as I said, Nazia, to discuss these issues, there is a lot of research and planning. You have to study a lot. You have to study a lot. You have to see these issues. This is a work. This is a work. I want to say that you note one more thing. If you are discussing with peace, how many channels will be left in today's day? Mostly, there will be a big panel. There won't be a big panel. Even then, you will be encouraged to speak with force. So that whole idea of a decent debate is lost.  If a viewer is watching that debate, there is very little take-off when you are not able to debate with peace. When you are not able to speak with peace and not wait for peace to speak with each other. I think we are losing the essence of news. We are losing the essence of debates on news channels. Rana ji, you have a supporter now. Because there are four sensible spokesperson parties. We like to come here and talk to each other. Because there are some people whose language has been improved and their understanding is very clear. And they come with preparation. If you look at the Indian news, I have repeatedly tried to pick up the important and fundamental issues and prepare a opinion between people. And that is a clear opinion. I am probably telling you what I am saying. Okay. This is what we are discussing in relative terms. That we have become worse and worse. This means that the first one was better and better. What was the first one today? When we relate, we believe that we are good or bad. Life is always like this. The TV channel from 2008 was such a time that nobody wants to talk about it. Because Raki, Raju, Naag, Nagin were trapped. And in 2008, when we took the terrorist attack in Mumbai, the country changed its image. People's preferences changed. Their priorities changed. And there was a big change in the world of news. Even today, I say that the channel or content that keeps a relationship with people is made by their life and their government. So, whenever you argue about it, people like it. I am telling you that I have never seen a lot of people praising it. It always happens. I will start this power crisis again tomorrow. But you will see that sensibly designed, what Charu was saying, that you have to read the principles of this country to talk about important things. And you want to see that you have so much understanding that you can correlate it with other things. First, I am talking about a small thing. The Prime Minister of this country is sitting with all the prime ministers and judges. People in this country are trying to be strong and better.  So, what is going on today is the opposite of what he is trying to do. Now, in his right because I have believed that I am Narendra Modi. So, I have decided that whatever he does, I will go against him. And people claim that they are actually standing against the system and calling out to the public to do what they are doing. But it is not like that. If they have to stand against the BJP, or if they go to the Maharashtra and stand against the Congress and call out to the BJP, that is not what happens. That is, you have caught a hitler and the rest of the people have caught the hitler and they call out to the government. And when you put yourself under the control of a hitler in some way, I feel that it is important for you to have a promise and then you do not have your wife.  This polarization that we are talking about is so much that either you are for or against. Yes. You know, even 10 years ago you felt that you have had a long career in journalism. Can I make an observation? Can I speak in between please? Quickly. Yes. I am very new in the world of news. I am not very new in the world of politics. But because I am not a career politician, I practiced law before I came into politics, I say this very objectively. Nowadays, of course there will be a political leaning. But this political leaning cannot mean that the other party is doing 100 of 100 wrong things. I say that I am a supporter of Modi Ji but the supporter of Modi Ji cannot say that Modi Ji has done all the wrong things. Nowadays, because of your political allegiance you oppose everything in a blanket way which I think is not the right thing. We are a democracy. We should be appreciating the things done by a politician. And criticizing. Yeah. Nobody can be 100% right or 100% wrong whatever your ideology. And I think we have lost that thing. That is how our system has been for many years. I mean that is how we have created this largest democracy. So I am online. Now we will move to another question. Yes Nazia. I will be involved in your discussion. Hello everyone. We were actually waiting then we will switch to the next question. Yeah, thank you. Which I want to understand from you Rana Ji. There is one more point. I will join you people after sometime. Excuse me for that. Just give me 5-10 minutes. Sure. But I am listening to you all. Thank you. You know these discourses discussions we do they are a cheaper option. Versus going out in the field creating content. So it suits the business of the news as well. You 4-5 well-to-do politicians sit in the studio and sit in the anchor and talk to each other for an hour and a half. Versus you send 4 OB vans looking for 10-10 stories and your expenses increase a lot. This is cheap and more sensational content. So is this true to some extent? Nazia, it is true that the reporting of the ground has been reduced and the studio has taken the whole channel in its part. These are all on the ground. Because of the zero of the ground there are expenses because your revenue and expenses should be between these two. Because you are in the news business. But the understanding of the ground and whenever there is a need on the ground your reporters go and do the stories and file the story. The problem is that the big problems are the unemployment and the cost. There are different problems of different states. If you go to different states you have to deal with the fields. People who come from the fields understand this. People who are in the city may not understand the problem that the people who live in the villages are killed. After that, they are forced to leave their homes and live with them. A big population in our country lives this way. The question is about the serious system. You have to work hard to file the stories. You have to put in the reporters. The cost is involved. You try to pick up a few stories and discuss it and prepare a solution in the country. But what has happened in the history is that in the country you try a lot to make a sensible debate and make a good show through the counter-report. You will not get a number. There are 4 panelists and an anchor who will pick up more than 2 and then you will leave in the race of TRP. This is a big concern because in honesty everyone is saying that there is a fight in the news business and there is a fight so you cannot focus on the things that are more important to you. This is the first and basic of the fight and this is going on. Do you think the TRP was shut down and there were no ratings for the last 1.5 years? Was there any improvement at all? Do you think in the phase of COVID there are 4 or 5 doctors from far away from Delhi, Mumbai and you have opened an open OPD and any Indian can call and take their advice when doctors were in hospitals and they were not available to give advice and they were very sick and they needed a doctor at that time you opened an OPD for 24 hours but today I am opening an OPD and some drama is going on and some talk is going on so you have to believe that there will be less people to take advice of OPD and the people who are dying will also be able to see the situation and this is a problem and the people who are in a society and have a good relationship with the society the society is ready for that and they like it sometimes they used to like Raju, Rakhi, Saan, Vichu Baluram today they are discussing something else fundamental questions have come in these 2 years and people have tried to do better work and they were 2 years old and you will see on TV channel they are not in terms of numbers but in terms of content in terms of people's interest and people's concern and their likes do you think it should be in TRP or not? look there is a fight in this country there should be a monarchy and that monarchy is TRP and we have the consumer it is not like the West so now when there is a consumer I will also make one observation when there was a controversy where some senior people were involved in ratings and many brands openly stand and they had stopped advertising on certain news channels and you think maybe we should have people from brands also that we all together can improve things so what if advertisers start choosing for more meaningful content and perhaps you will have that liberty to create better content because your advertisers will invest in you only if you do some possible content if you do this kind of content we will not advertise and it did happen because we are in the business of brands I know several brands who backed out they stopped spending on many channels so unfortunately some of our panelists have not joined so this is more or less a fire side with Rana and they have to answer accountability lies on everyone you can't get away by saying they say when we ask sensible questions politicians don't come to talk to us then there is this entire revenue game so do you feel that we all you know if we can talk more of solutions how can we there is only thing common in what I am saying and Rana is saying quality is bad we are only discussing why it is bad we are trying to put blame on each one maybe if we show better quality people will see so what political initiatives can we take this is only my opinion I could be wrong when we produce quantity then quality gets compromised somewhere or the other and we have discussed this also previously there are so many news channels today 24-hour news channels which is trying to churn out content every single minute and of course the life of content has become very short today you will talk to any journalist the life of the content that was done before I think because of that pressure news channels things become difficult to manage and like you said it is very easy to put people in boxes on a screen on television and have them talk to each other but when there are going to be so many news channels each news channel doing so many shows a day trying to fill up a whole day with information there is this war to see which channel is better than the other which anchor is better than the other your content is so good I cannot even say that the number of channels should be reduced because of course that is not going to be a solution but the struggle for everybody in this space today needs to become more about bringing out quality over quantity so instead of saying that we do 06 shows a day why is it not possible for people to focus on 3 fantastic shows and I know this seems very idealistic I wish I could say the same for political parties that you participate in one debate and get ready for it see it has become an ecosystem so for somebody like me I am assigned a debate from my party I will have to go for the debate which is given to me I will have to prepare the subject which has been assigned to me sometimes it is something that I am more aware of I am a lawyer so I would be happier to talk about legal issues or court things or even you know women's issues things like that but it also becomes a question of what is available on television on a particular day so even if it is something which is not up my alley I am supposed to study I am supposed to understand what is happening and speak about it and basically I am not speaking for myself everything that I am saying today is on behalf of my party it is to carry the message of my party's policies thoughts to the people of my country I am only a medium I am supposed to only say what my party wants to convey the solution can be to very consciously have anchors say that I don't want to fight what has happened on my show successful show has become equivalent to a loud show I think it should be the opposite you also say that I don't want to fight we don't do it I know Rana Ji is going to back me up on this I will never be on a show where I will be shouting I will tell others politely that you didn't speak for me but if that person persists to interrupt my debate then I am forced to do the same see I don't want to be on television with say 30 minutes of screen time and not get a word out at the end of the day this is no charu talking at the end of the day this is bhajpa ka who is on air and I am supposed to convey my party's message so if the person in front of me is going to ensure that everything is interrupted it just becomes a matter of giving it back that is something that I would like to do in the normal course so there are many people who agree but there are many channels who feel that until you are not in a good mood you are not attacking each other the show is not successful so I think the success of a show needs to be measured with how much we are giving to the public how cordially we are able to talk to people we don't agree with rather than it becoming a measure of success how much noise be created so Rana Ji what are the big solutions how can we better our debates how can we better our ecosystem our dependence revenue is so much on advertisers our dependence is on the government these factors were there before I don't know how much you agree but there is the overall respect for our profession even politicians it's gone down because of the kind of work the kind of content we are giving to the viewers so all these constraints existed before but our seniors were managing the way out where have we faltered I would like to explain a little bit what Charu has said from what Charu said I remember Mr. Rahat that the question is not at home but at the foundation the soil of our feet actually the things that are better that you can connect they are kept on TV they are not kept what Charu was saying it takes effort for that you have to read but the content is in people's liking it is liked and the debates that we are discussing are going on for 18 hours from 6 in the morning to 12 in the evening and in that 2 hours or 2 and a half hours but the rest of the 15 hours are news it is not like that it is a debate so after taking 2 and a half hours we are deciding on the whole world we are not talking about this but I say that in the whole 15 hours there is an Indian an ordinary person who lives in India yes the things that are there they can be done better there is a lot of knowledge it is possible to get out of this the reason for that is that there are some anchors some reporters who have their own understanding and they feel that if you do that then you will be fine and there will be a discussion about you because in that show there is a lot of noise and that debate is seen so this is your mental problem this problem has brought you here that you can't get out of it you are helpless but there are people who debate better they come with better content and the channel is better I think there needs to be felt between the earning earning is a big factor to decide the channel and to educate the team that anchors reporter lives in the network he can explain he can change the mode of debate he can change the context of the content he can change the context of the content earning is very important for the anchors and reporters there is a problem that how do you see India do you want to take advantage of it or do you want to give yourself some opinion if I get out of here then if I look back then I did some meaningful work staying in this space for the country and the society or if I stay happy then I will do something better but I have to do my job and keep the number then I will stay in the fight of TRP and I will keep the entire team in the same network this is a fundamental thing that should be discussed everywhere and this should be understood I think we should make a big debate between the earning Anurag ji is here finally Anurag ji can you hear me hello Anurag ji I don't think he can hear us Anurag ji Anurag ji your voice is coming my voice is coming to you yes now it is coming yes now it is coming Anurag ji you are listening to our debate absolutely so you tell me maybe you are a little late in joining we talked about a lot of things that day we were talking you and Charu ji were saying it is not our fault Rana ji and Saeed ji will join us in a few minutes if they ask us questions then we have to answer them now you tell us what will you say to Rana ji the question is not about this I had already said today when there is a debate they ask me questions but when we get the answer of the question they don't listen to my answer they feel that this answer is correct and the message will be correct if they want to ask they are not talking to him then we have to answer they don't want to reach to the public they start talking half the time what you are saying how many answers will you give because we all can't paint the same brush today you can understand when you start talking they start talking to you then you know that this is a rule when you start talking and you start talking you have to make a loud voice when you make a loud voice then he also tries to make a loud voice the anchor also feels that how should I read less because the other people these days the anchor is trying to make the political party happy the anchor is trying to fix the system I think this is wrong as I say it is not true but I feel that I have to make a loud voice and I have to make a loud voice which I don't like but every day I feel that the other party will be given full time they will take the same what you are talking about that is eligible to talk in the TV debate not the other party I feel I have to show their faces and listen to them I mean we will say something we will start shouting last time I understood how to find the solutions now they say when we want to talk about issues then the government leaves the spokesperson the third point is that there is a problem of revenue when PRP comes then revenue comes without me going too much into blame game and we look for solutions how can we fix this in our little ways you have to change your mind you have to say what you want you have to say your issues but I keep quiet till the public for this the other party are a little disturbed because their agenda is not working but I keep saying even if they keep shouting I don't listen to them I keep shouting I don't listen to the audience but I keep saying what I want to say and I keep quiet even after sending a message your PRP will come or not but you are being called so there is some sense of fairness no that is their big problem that they call me but this is my responsibility towards the public I keep quiet by saying what I want Charu you wanted to say something yes I did so actually I don't think oppositions for persons are as much of a victim as they pretend to be because frankly every time I am on a debate I think I am outnumbered so if we talk about Uttar Pradesh Anurag ji comes from UP last big elections were in Uttar Pradesh and other countries so there will be a debate there will be a debate there will be a debate there will be a debate so at the end of the day BJP people are isolated and it is very wrong to say we are cornered I disagree the second thing is it is also very unfair to say that all news channels are out to get you I don't think that's the case at all at the end of the day I understand every Patrakar will also have a political leaning or every news channel also might have a political leaning but trust me most of them don't want to be branded and they will want to give equal space and I say this I have some very dear friends in the media and the journalism fraternity so I have seen that most of them try to keep their personal opinions out of the debate most of them do that and the last point I want to make is Anurag ji himself admits that neither I listen to anchor nor do I listen to other people I just keep saying and let me tell you he is not the only one there are a lot of people who follow this but that only adds to noise, not news that's noise, never news let me tell you how can I stop you you can tell me that you are not the only one I will answer you Anurag ji answer me then I will go look Charu ji said that I have so many thoughts that I get isolated there is no one to question them listen listen listen listen listen listen I just want to come into this and tell you that we are not debating now I want you to meet you three ask anchor how do you accept that we are talking that's not going to happen let me tell you I have a lot of thoughts I can't say Charu ji said that I get isolated from BJP I forget that there are BJP Anchor and the BJP their new a new a new a new a new a new and sometimes comes let's move to solutions how can we fix this now Shazia has joined us I mean you joined us when we are about to wrap up we just left it 10 minutes to go I just want to add one thing I have been hearing everything I want to say something about Anurag ji Anurag ji as you are saying there are political analysts there are also CSDS people there are journalists who are less they are more supporters of congress so it happens on both sides you are also saying it is happening on both sides but the end result is that it is noisy we are talking about how to control that noise and how to make our debates meaningful we have to make an hour for that I can't do it no now Anurag san we will try to answer some questions and not just do the blame thing one point that we believe is TRP and Revenues that these things are necessary for TRP revenue comes from TRP so maybe we should have another debate where we will bring in more advertisers brands into it when we say we will not sponsor the noise shows we will only sponsor when there is more meaningful content and we have seen some brands were old enough to take that stand last year when a particular channel was stuck in TRP controversy they did stop advertising they went out and hopefully said they will not advertise with this channel because of all the controversies around it and one thing that I want to ask Shazia see there are all things but is there also lack of political will because there is a lot that government can also control if the government says that you are not doing such debates means they cannot speak directly but you know there has to be there was an advisory issue recently but advisory is too soft to think advisory is that I have done it you are free to go ahead I asked to save myself but we have issued an advisory issue but advisory not really means anything in a country like India until you impose a fine until there is some kind of a punishment nobody moves so Shazia on the government side where are we lacking is what I want to ask if the same government go to do anything more there is no government advisory this would be this is the same country where the press would get together clamour and say that you know there is an imposition on us we are being muzzled I am just saying that you don't actually do these debates don't do provocative debates but if you do provocative debates means that communal clashes can happen in the country you have seen there is a sudden explosion of communal clashes in the last few years and they have been covered with very bare minimum journalistic ethics even when we used to read in journalism we used to say that if the rights are given we won't tell the name of the community now we will focus on it how many X, how many Y, how many Z there is a clear thing where there is scope for if there is a political will things can get better I mean I as a citizen do believe it and that is why the government is in power they have control they have their own ways of controlling things do you know when that incident happened when everybody was talking about the Maulana's and that particular incident when the COVID incident happened it was the government that intervened and said stop doing this and in fact it was Ajit Doval who had to actually go and meet Maulana said or whoever it was and say that you know you safely go back because every channel went up a few channels went up so you know to control every channel every channel passed yeah but the government cannot control every channel's agenda definitely not this is past what going forward you think can be done to improve this thing I don't think our government is ever interested in being like the congress will impose emergency and the channels themselves NPA themselves have said that we are perfectly capable of regulating ourselves so I don't think the government ever will interfere with the editorial policies of the channels and I think it will Rana Ji, you are listening very late you tell me Shazia is saying the government will never interfere with the editorial policies and the government will allow a free media to run so this means generally you are driving the government in general the government has its own media has its own and we never want the government to regulate the media we have been fighting this for a very long time our own media in which we decide things I will take only 2-3 minutes just like in this country every citizen has the right to make his own opinion and speak against it you have kept your party Mawlana has kept her party one leader is in another party tomorrow in another party Anurag is sitting here in the 2 leaders of their party in another party now I am going to speak against them they feel I am against against a party so they believe less against I believe more of a party but I think for the journalist you have decided you keep saying do not keep your opinion as per your own way but when time, situation and conditions change and challenges change then you have to change today's journalist talks about a better development then he becomes a leader I say for this country, for a society 2-3 developments are given by their own thinking and understanding this is better I am not saying that it is less or less than that but if I try to explain my opinion in this country then I become a leader of a party but the journalist of this country is speaking against a party or in the right of a party on the basis of his own understanding he is preparing a opinion and he wants to give it to his country because he thinks it is better so the previous conditions as you say we will make the rest of the decision, in India there are a lot of ways to come there are a lot of sources there are a lot of obstacles and a lot of people in India can study but they do not have knowledge people are not there if I have understood what you are saying right opinions are mixed with the news and context is mixed with content now we have 2 minutes left but I want to take a closing remark Charu if you are still there I think Charu because she was one of the first person to join I think she is now left Anurag sir tell us your closing remark I think we have not reached any conclusion but I don't know how the debate is that is why I like the channel see atleast I walked out with a clear heart that I tried my best to keep it not in anybody's favor if I complete your point then you said try with honesty remove honesty these days it is just an effort and everyone knows how the efforts are in that effort we also need to reach to the public we also need to try but we need to try with honesty other people have lost the word honesty what efforts do you have people know honesty is also subjective I am sure they are doing it Anurag is also a very subjective thing how do we want to conclude we have one minute to close everyone has their own opinion Anurag has his own opinion this is their opinion everyone's opinion is different I think the government even if it talks about freedom of press freedom of press and true freedom with editorial policy and freedom of people with editorial policy no matter whether they are opponents or supporters people should not talk to them or should not interfere as a guideline as a overall as a mark as a vision they can say but when when there is too much with the security of the country there should be a strict step but we have there has been an increase in sedition cases that have been filed and I think Because when it comes to security of the country, when there should be an incitement and abetment that, you know, let's go against the country and divisiveness because that is hate, that is disavowment, that is promotion of enmity. So I think that should be done with it because it is necessary. And you won't believe that the American embassy was there yesterday. There was an incitement there and I was talking about it. And they were in shock because there were some people there and there were many senior people there. And they were talking about Umar Khalid. You won't believe that. And I told them what Umar Khalid said about Afzal Guru and the senior people there. They were in shock that some people were pointing to Umar Khalid in India. That Afzal Guru was trying to save someone who was attacked in the parliament. They can't even think about it. I mean, whether they are Democrats or Republicans, I said that India is a country where we have discussed it.  So we have done something too much in our opposition that we are not ready to leave Supreme Court. I think it is best for the people to decide that they have come because we feel that some television channels news channels have also crossed that line of where you don't really know what is provocative and what is just a statement being. I don't think it is... Nazia, I am sorry. I am not able to... Nazia, you can take 10 minutes. I am trying to rectify this. My battery, my laptop... Shazia, please continue. Shazia, please continue. I am not able to stretch it beyond maybe 5 minutes or if it... Okay, then I will take the question. In case it's... Yes, yes, please. See, I can see you all but I am not able to hear you people. So I told my IT people to rectify it, please. Give me some time. Nazia, you can ask one more question. Actually, the time is something that we have run out of and I don't know if other panelists can stay back. I could have stayed back. It's just that my laptop battery is about to... Okay, I will ask one question after that. I will ask one question after that. I am just left with 10%. Before I log off, I really hope that we were able to find some answers through this debate today. Rana Ji, thank you so much for joining. You covered up for so many panelists to join late. Your views were very honest, very... You answered all of the questions which is something very rare these days. Anurad sir, thanks to you also. But you were the one who was telling me what you told me personally. Next time when we have a debate, I would want more solutions from you and beyond BJP bashing. Thank you, Nazia. Thank you, Erin. Rohil will continue because my laptop can actually shut down. No worries. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you, Nazia. My last question. We have another, say, four minutes, six minutes exactly. One by one. Starting with you, Nazia. Sometimes people say it's a fixed match between anchors and spokespersons. First of all, answer me. The TV debate that people are talking about has gone down to the level of anchors because of the spokespersons. No, it's not like that. And it can't be like that. One can be between anchors and one can be between spokespersons. But as Sudhanshu Bhai told you yesterday, different spokespersons come. Obviously, they decide a party. So it can't be like that. And let me tell you that in one channel, there are different anchors. There are different views of anchors. And there is something going on between them. There is a different party. There are different spokespersons. Sometimes in some people, there is something going on a different level. There is a different battle. So it's not so easy and easy to do it. So it's not like that. And there are a lot of... And there is a personality of anchors. There are some anchors who seriously talk about themselves.  There are some spokespersons and some anchors. And there are some spokespersons who are very... Their personality is like that. They get happy on TV. They never stay in life. So they make a lot of noise. So there are a lot of factors. Simplify it so much. I can't keep anything. Okay. Anuraj Ji, your views. I think when there is a debate, everyone's own style. Everyone's own style. Everyone's own style. Everyone's own style. Everyone's own style. If I talk to the government, if it doesn't seem right to his policy, I try to talk to the public. But my friends will be my friends. If I don't like something, they will want to talk to the public about their style. Because they will have their own style. Our style is very simple. Both of us are very simple. If we are very simple, we can be very simple. If we are very simple, we can be very simple. We can be very simple. So that's our style. Okay, okay, okay, got it. Rana Ji, your thoughts? Well, my opinion is that the anchor and the panelists, if the debate is good, then the debate can be interesting. We are going to one side where the debate standard is falling. But I say that the topic of the debate, whatever it is, if you have prepared your content, then the debate can be interesting. Let me put it in an example. Today, the US President speaks directly to the Prime Minister of India. He has a virtual meeting and sends his own messenger. And that person is a deputy NSR. The world's most powerful country is that country. The fact is that India is standing in the present state of Russia and Ukraine. The direction of India will be the same as it will be in the world. But when we start discussing this, we forget that there was a time when Nixon had waited for Indira Gandhi for 45 minutes. And he went to talk to Bangladesh. Many people from Bangladesh are coming to our country. And there is a problem in the text. The President calls and says that you will not come out of Pakistan. My army does not follow Lahore. So we will stop giving tax. So we had a time when America's eyes were visible. Today is a date when we sit properly and we are in the thoughts of it. So now when the debate will be on what is the foreign policy of India or how the image of India has been created after Modi came. So if we cut the context and see India, then you can keep many things in different ways. But we will see the old context. Then you will see things that are better. The question is that the topic of the discussion, the debate of the debate, the debate about how beautiful you are and how ready you are. The heart can be any discussion, any discussion. The question comes to you that how you prepare yourself. Alright. Okay. Thank you so much for taking our time and hopefully the big event is in the evening. Many of you will be there. But thank you so much for joining us today on news next conference. Thank you. Robin, over to you. Thank you. Thank you so much to all the panelists here for taking their valuable time out. We truly appreciate you. Once again, Shazia Ji, Baudbhai Shukria, Anurag Ji, Baud Shukria. Rana was here. Thank you. Once again, Charu, Nazia, what a wonderful moderation. So to conclude the session, see, responsibility does not lie with just the anchors, the media houses or the spokesperson. I think that the responsibility comes with ownership. Whether it's advertisers, whether it's brands, whether it's media or political parties. At the end, it's all about the people. So whoever you think out of those 10 people, if eight people are working with an agenda or two are working on the right. So I think we support them as people, we support them as brands. We give them the voice and try to make their voice as strong as possible. And that could be the reason and that could be the answer to uplift the discourse in the media. So thank you so much once again for that wonderful session to the panel. And with this, we'll be moving on to our next session. This is going to be a keynote session and we are truly happy to invite on screen Supriya Prasad, News Director, Arts Turk, India Today and GNT. Mr. Prasad, thank you very much. He is joining us in two minutes. In the meantime, that's happening. Let me quickly thank once again, Adfactors PR for bringing to you exchange for media news next 2022, powered by Media Mantra. And we have some amazing sessions lined up for you. You will be joined with us till five o'clock and then we have the awards, the much anticipated and much awaited ENBA happening in the evening. I'm sure it's going to be a fantastic awards segment. So do join for that in the evening later on. And we're talking about a lot of interesting stuff today. We've had some fantastic sessions and continuing on that trend we have Mr. Prasad. He is well known for his candid conversations and of course, the wisdom that this man carries is known to all of us. So while he's setting up his screen and looking like he's ready for a vacation in Goa, I will hand over the screen to Mr. Prasad. Sir, thank you very much. Mr. Prasad, we've just returned from Switzerland. Maybe we'll go to Goa. Which is such a... I'm not going to Goa. This is a simple set. Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Prasad. Our conversation is about the issues that are often said about journalists. So we'll take their answers from you directly from here. First of all, it is said that there is a huge pressure system in the newsroom. Sometimes people say that they are more political than journalist. What do you want to say about this when people talk like that? No, nothing like that. In the newsroom, it is only about the news. And whatever the news is about, it is about the discussion. It is about the focus. It is about the work. And political... Since our entire society is political, political issues are discussed. Political news is also discussed. But there is nothing like that in the newsroom. It is only about politicians. If there is a war environment, it is also about the war. Now, Russia is talking about the war in the newsroom. There are a lot of things like that in the newsroom. There is no such thing as politics in the newsroom. But what is right about having political pressure in the newsroom?  As far as it is so far, there are two things to do. One is to balance a sensitive subject, to see it, to practice it again and again. That is a different thing. The newsroom does not have any balance. There is no balance in the newsroom. I have heard that it is right and I have seen that it is 100% pure. We do not see in the news that how to balance it. But it is about both parties. It is about how to balance it. It is about how to balance it. This is what we are trying to do. One thing is to keep it in front of people in the right way. I do not think about pressure. Especially when I work in the current system, I do not believe in the pressure of the government, the agency or the people. There is no pressure of anyone. This is a situation. People think that there is a lot of pressure on the media. I do not know about the rest. But there is no pressure of anyone in the current system. As far as it is so far, it works. It gives news from the beginning. As soon as the news is read, it is a channel of trust of ordinary people. So, every news of ordinary people's trust rises. For this, we do not have to practice or balance. We do not have to listen to anyone. One more thing is said that there is no news. There are views everywhere. Look, there is a format. You present views instead of news. What is your... If you look at the current system, we have only 2 hours of debate. We only give news. We have 22 hours of news. And the news is kept as news. We do not have any views. Obviously, there is a line of news. We show news on the line of news. But we do not give news by looking at the angle or by adding editorial material to the news. We do not give news by adding material. We only give news by adding news. We have only 2 debates here. And in those 2, which are called political parties, they are more connected. In that, we do not have such a role that we have any thoughts. Or we have to talk to people. Right. One more thing is said that there is a cherry picking of facts. You narrate the story. Only the dramatic parts of it, sensationalized parts are shown. But there is one more thing. There is a lot of negativity. There is a lot of focus. Some people say that good things are happening. Other things are also happening. I know you have a channel on that. But I have a question on the other 2 channels. Is there a focus on negative because it gets more dramatized? Is there something like that? No. This is also what people are thinking. Television is a visual medium. In that, people have to present such things. There is a negative positive in the society. There is no positive in the negative. There is news. There is news. And where there is good news, we show it. You said that our channel is on this. Good news today. We show it in that. But the thing is that what is happening in the society, whatever good news is happening, whatever bad news is happening, we will show the news. But some people are thinking that why did you show this, why didn't you show this, why didn't you show this, why didn't you show this. All these things are far away. I often say that the media should realize these things. Some people will keep on thinking about what you are thinking. They will keep on telling you what you are thinking. But the real issue is that as much news has been broken on all the channels, as much news I have revealed, all the TV channels have not done it. It is not like anything else, whatever big news is there, whatever big news is there, all the big news has not been broken on all the TV channels. And all the TV channels have been given it. So on the TV channels, whatever big news is there, whatever big news is there, all the TV channels have to be shown. Why do you see it as a negative positive news? Or do you want to dramatize something? People say that they have shown this, that they have shown this. This is a television medium. People can present something through visuals. And the visuals are good, what is shown, what is the question in people's mind is it not possible that you have shown this. I sometimes laugh at people saying that this is only being done for TRP while the last 1.5 years were not being done for TRP. People still say that it is being done for TRP. This is happening for TRP. Everything is not done for TRP. The most important news in the TV is related to common people. Common people are aware of common people. If you look at the past then the past whether it is a matter of demand or any issue, whether it is a matter of pollution or a matter of power cut then no news is left behind. And the past keeps everything free. But in this, all the TV channels have to present things in that way. This is the real medium. You have to tell the news that this is happening and this is happening. I don't think that this is wrong. Every place is polluted. Some people are like this in every field, in every profession some are bad people, some are bad people, some are bad people, they cannot be an example. Some people show the news and some don't. If you don't show the news then I agree. Right. I have a colleague who is my relative and he is also here but I will ask a question and then I will go to him. There is one more thing whenever you present news like BBC, CNN, there is so much of some people are saying that this is entertainment news. Anything is happening and the headlines are breaking I mean where is the entertainment news? I mean BBC and CNN are wrong. Their lifestyle is different and their attitude is different. In fact we are different from people here there is no such thing and the song is not like there is so much going on here If you see the news then the news is going on but I mean I am telling you I am not happy with all these things you can see at least 5-10% of entertainment and especially I have shown a lot of channels like we have TV channels and I am telling why should not be shown the program should be shown people are interested see how fast the OTT is people should know who is our star why should not be shown it is a visual medium there is a good picture good visuals are coming with your star Ranveer is coming it should be shown although it is in this time I believe it should be shown why should not be shown people used to read in the newspaper newspapers always published such news there was a photo if you want to see people it should be shown people can see from their eyes what is wrong in that I don't think Mr. Pankaj would you like to ask something Good afternoon sir my friend we have been using fake news for a long time all these ways we have made PIV fact check and many other places but despite this we are not able to use fake news so what do you think how can we use it another question as you have seen after a long time TRP has started but every new channel has its own differences some say it should be some say it should not be but Vivaad is not stopping till long time so let's see there is no doubt in India we have made an anti-fake news we do fact check it is difficult to authorize in the world but this is a problem and especially through social media many things are spread in this way that is why we have talked about this in India especially before spreading the news we should properly check that the news is going well we have seen many times in war many people are showing any news but we have taken care that it should not be spread we should take care of this on this we should be prepared and alert people that anything can come any fake video any fake picture so we try we can guarantee 100% then we try that 99.9% we are left with it your second question about TRP I think TRP should be and TRP is a system when you live in a system TRP is a system what you are doing so you should be good with TRP any system there are loopholes there are some problems there are some changes there are some changes these things are going on and this process will continue but for this we should not I don't believe this I believe that TRP should be a system 100% accurate system should be created whatever loopholes changes or changes should be done we believe this thank you yes yes one more thing there is a culture in newsroom there is a culture for becoming number one it's not that you become number one or whatever the ranking is just because maybe you present it in a certain way this is a successful culture if I ask you how do you make that culture in newsroom how do you ensure that the newsroom stays ahead what are the elements there is no formula I will tell you there is a formula but till today there is no number one there is a lot of effort and a lot of changes I believe that if you keep changing yourself with time this is the most important factor that you don't change yourself with time so when you change according to the time you will understand things and keep that and for that credibility is very important as I said if we are still fighting with fake news then you need credibility is very important no matter what you do no matter what you do for that I believe people these are two very important things and we try to make sure that our news is good people have faith in our news people have come here to see the news in the right way right right one more thing how do you ensure when there is an election or when there are sensitive things at that time whether it is going in someone's favour or not so how do you handle such situations editorially situations look this situation is still going on when everyone wants to have elections people don't want to listen to their own opinion someone feels bad but when it comes to our work we have to show it we don't care whether elections are going on or who will benefit from our news we don't worry about these things we think this is news and people should know this is important news and without any agenda the purpose is we don't work for anyone our motive is to show this news we try to show it we try to show it we don't care who will benefit who will be affected and people still have faith in this because it is important for people what is news no one has gone there nothing happens some people we have some system people who work for foreign these things as I told you before they are exceptional but in any form I have been working since last 25 years since today I am working in this system I have seen it as it used to be and all parties they have so many requests that they are rallying me show it to them they don't put pressure on them I have written that it is natural if they want to do it it is different but the system there is no pressure on you there is no pressure on you I can say this with guarantee I have never said you do this I have never said I have never said people think that it is our rally show it to them show it to them it is also a guarantee it is a natural request that they do it but no one has ever said why you have done this why you have not done this yes it is important that you do such stories sometimes you have to accept some people do this but I don't think there is any pressure there is no pressure for any system I don't think there is any pressure on media I will ask a question after that journalism with impact that is the mission that is what we all strive to be in the last 4-5 months in the last 6 months what stories or news stories will you tell and what impact will you tell no we have every day every month we do 4-5 stories which is the impact which is the government which is the government when we saw the story after that the government told us about the news we saw the news of Rajasthan we saw the news of Rajasthan we saw it in UP people were not getting salary people were not getting salary there are many such news the government we show the news we see the impact of our news the government I saw I saw this it is the impact Mr. Pankaj, do you have any question for sir? no sir I was asking the new generation will they get any message that you have achieved so the new generation wants to move forward what do you want to say for them? I always say I feel that people should work hard and there shouldn't be any short cut we are continuing this session till 30th no short cut short cut I will tell you for anyone any wrong way any form any person no short cut you can't make it permanent that's why you should work hard journalism is a revolution revolution you have responsibility think about it think about it if you are a businessman then you should become a reporter channel head you shouldn't think like that you will get everything and I can guarantee that you are my pride no one can stop you for this you don't need any short cut you don't need any short cut you don't need any chanchagali you don't need any brother or sister nothing comes from here everything is on the market everything is visible in the television if you have talent then it will be visible that's why you should work hard you have your goals how you want to move forward what you want to do you will definitely be successful we are continuing our debate that's what I wanted to say we have another 15-20 minutes then we will wrap it up yes Pankaj ji there is a small question there are many channels in the market and every channel claims to be number one there are many there are many channels but till date there has been a number one there are three reasons there is a number one and they claim to be number one no no there is no claim there are two types of claims number one when the TRP is coming then the number one is on the basis of TRP and whenever that TRP comes then it is on the basis of TRP whatever channel is number one then channel number one claims to be number one in that some people by removing some things we are number one in this we call ourselves number one in this one but those things do not matter they matter the trust of the public and who do you think is the number one the real number one is the trust of the people and I think in this matter there is no channel that's why there is a number one even now it is on the basis of TRP you can go to any system for the news the meaning of the news is the basis if you want to see the news then it is on the basis of TRP that's why the basis of TRP and the basis of TRP is number one from the last 22 years it is not a matter of one or two weeks it is successful I have told you trust and trust there is no rocket science it is a very simple thing if you do it in the right way and in the right way then you will be 100% successful without any of it any channel to see the news if you give it in the right way then you will be 100% successful Thank you Mr. Pankaj, Mr. Vikas wants to join us please help him until then I want to ask Mr. Supyaj you told us that you are a stringer journalist this is your role if I am right this is how you have grown in this field and when journalists take on management roles what is the first thing that a journalist has a conflicted role can he keep his journalism alive besides being a manager at the same time no I don't see any conflict in this this is not right our role is our editorial role I am an editorial head so my role is an editorial role there is no conflict our work to show the news there is no conflict for that I don't have any management there is no system to interfere there are no other things that are part of our system there is no system that is independent we decide what is right we decide there is no conflict we are managers we have a certain team that needs to be led we need to manage this team this is our job we need to manage this team we need to see if everyone is getting a chance or not we need to deliver things this is our job I want to ask you this is my personal favourite the pressure of newsroom is different when you have news break and television news there is another level instant number one the fastest in this you look so calm and composed are there moments when you are so high that it becomes very tough in such situations how do you handle a question about your leadership how will you define your leadership I have never thought of anything like this I work with other producers I also work with the system neither do I consider myself as a boss nor do I work separately I work with the team and when I was a producer I used to work like this I am a new director I work with the team that is why I never understood myself how I became different presser is important sometimes you get news sometimes you get visual sometimes you break other news you get irritation you get pressure you create pressure on the team what happened sometimes it happens but it happens that we work in a peaceful environment we work in a peaceful environment people work and deliver because when the team delivers you don't need a lot of money when you are doing well it is good our 40 under 40 in which you were in the jury we identify new journalists promising journalists there are two things one is that some people who leave the journalism school in an ideal setup they have an ideal concept and the practice they see on TV it is completely different to such students they don't know what they read and what they see they feel they are very different what would you like to say to such people if they want to take up journalism also it is high pressure it is not as like a startup they can burn the money what do you have to tell to people who are looking at journalism as I said before you should not think that you got an award it is fine you should not get awards you should not let them think that you got an award I have done a great job no one should think television or any medium that you have done before it has no value in today's time as I have done 20 years ago and 5 years ago it doesn't matter you have to deliver daily on TV or on TV you have to perform daily Birat Kohli made a century it doesn't mean that you can't make a century you have to leave the captaincy when you are in journalism you won't get an award you have become a great journalist and you think that you got an award it is fine it motivates you you get a kick you should think better you should work harder you should set the goal of your life which direction do you want to go you can't do everything you can't be an anchor you can't be a reporter you can't be a producer you can decide what you want to do what direction do you want to go and since the beginning I never wanted to be an anchor I never wanted to be a reporter I used to work on the desk I used to work on the desk I used to work on the desk so it is not like there is no big or small work I have done everything do your work do whatever you want if you can do it you should decide what work you can do what is your interest another question that is good news that you have taken a step you have taken a step please accept our audience what are your responses what are the new things on that channel. What all has been planned on that channel? The biggest challenge of that channel was to give confidence to our team. To give confidence to our team that we can do something like this. I mean, the team was like, I don't know what will happen, if we are able to do good or not. If we are able to see good news or not, if people like bad news, then it is a challenge for us. But we then prepared a team and forced the team. Because we are used to being in news, that it is 5.30 in the morning, show it to the world, it is done, it is done. The new generation of us, whatever I have prepared for journalism, whatever work I have done in the TV channel, there is a framework in his mind, he thinks what is the news, he has made it in his mind that this is news, this is news. So now it was a big challenge to leave that news and show it to the world. For example, let's assume that there was an accident in Ropey, people said that what will we do in this, now the channels are showing Ropey. Now we are doing good news in this. We were in relief work, those who saved people, we did a story on that. So now our team is ready in that way, which takes out good from it. The good that comes out of it, it takes out that yes, this is good news. So first it was very difficult to prepare the team. The biggest challenge was to prepare the team, to bring the framework in the team's mind, to tell that yes, good news is today. And after that, now I will say, it has been more than 6 months since the channel started. And now I feel that we got a better response than expected. People have come a lot, people have liked it. And the most important thing is that we show the news in it. We have fast news as well. People are watching our news. And we show a lot of programs in it. We show programs on religion. And by showing positive news, people liked it a lot. This is a different kind of experiment, where in the time of Corona, when people had a lot of negativity, and when all kinds of negative news were coming, all kinds of news were coming to die from Corona, and at that time, when we did a clip of this channel, how to make this channel different, so that when people sit at home and watch it with the whole family, without any stress, they will feel that it is very good. It is a really good channel. Mr. Pankaj, do you want to ask anything? I have two more questions, then we will wrap up. Sir, as you said, we took a good news studio for good news. And we tell our friends that we show all the good news. So, only for good news, people will see it differently. The person who wants to see good news, will watch the good news studio. And the person who wants to see all the good news, will watch the other channel. Absolutely. Good news today is a channel based on a concept. In the good news channel, there is a good and different way of doing things. What is important is that until today, the biggest news of the country, can't be different from the news of the past. I mean, if there is no big news, then it is a matter of the past. It is a desire of people from the past to see the news of the past, to see the future of the past. So, we have started a good news studio because there is a different way of showing positive news. There are many good things in the society that we can show in the past. We will try to show the good news in the GNT. We will show the good news to those people in the future. There are many good people in the society. We saw the stories in such a way and the programme, we thought, you know, there are so many good people who are doing good work. It is a good start for society. So, I feel that the good news is working in this matter. Yes. Right. One more thing is about Trolls, it's a reality nowadays. How do you handle criticism? What kind of criticism? People point out that they have done something wrong. We all do, this party, this party, this party, that party, this party, that party. Left, right, centre, all of them do our Aluchna. I think we are doing the right thing. That is why I am the strength of Aluchna, I have the strength to live and to live. There should be Aluchna, Aluchna is bad, you should listen to it. Right, right, right. One more thing is about Aluchna. Sometimes you feel that what they are saying is right, not that Aluchna is just a fake Aluchna. Sometimes Aluchna will learn what they said is right. One more thing, Supriya Ji. I want to bring in one more question from another person who is here. I am sorry, Abhijit Ji. Okay, he is not one to pass. Okay, final two questions I have Supriya Ji for you. One is digital integration. Digital has a lot of influence on TV, news is coming from Twitter, a lot of sources are coming. There is a compulsion on journalists to show their speed or facts at the same time. How do you make sure that the speed of the news is also about the credibility of the news? We have told that we have made that system. We have told that every news should be reported in 5-5 minutes. But until it is verified, we try not to run it. And that is why we will see the current record. So 99.9% accuracy is there. 0.1% we have also made a mistake. We have also run a news like this. But we also try to check the news completely. This is our assignment team. The input team is a trend for this. And the whole process is the same. There are all the filters. After 3-4 filters, the news is broadcasted here. So we ensure that the news comes in the right way. One small question from me. Like how much has the newsroom changed since Corona last year? And the other news collecting procedure. Like the first person used to go to the reporter. He used to sit, bring 2-4 covers. And now that the cable is going, he is talking from far away in Corona. He is trying to get more information on the phone. So now the news is not available in that experience. Is there any effect on it? Look, Corona has definitely affected the society. So it has affected the newsroom as well. But the most important thing about our time is that our reporters, they put their lives on the brink of their lives. As you can see, our 10-12 teams have always been working outside. They were working outside. They were all in the field. And we never let our viewers see that we are not able to show this news because of Corona. Our reporters are not able to go there. Our reporters are working outside. All of us. Every kind of Corona coverage, whether it is going to be in ISU or outside, they have shown all the news. So yes, it is necessary that when the time came in our newsroom, 40-50% of the people were COVID-19, all of them were ill.  I tried to do it so that the viewers don't have to worry about it. And our attempt is that no matter what happens from behind, but when we work, when we go there, the viewers don't realize it. They don't know it. And let me give you an example. Today is the 30th of November. And a year ago, our friend, Roy Sardana, left us and went away. And you can understand, in his sorrow, in his sorrow, we were very angry with him. We were very sad. We were very sad. The old newsroom was sad. We couldn't work. But after that, everyone delivered the news and presented the news in the same way, kept the news in the same way. Because after my life, after my retirement, the SPC said, we thought about the news. So that the viewers, okay, our sorrow, our pain, and the viewers, we had to influence the viewers. There was a small thing, the one who was talking about the print, then the TV came, then the digital came. Now, how do you think in the future, how will it be? The presence of digital is more than that. From the media, people can watch the news at different times, at different places, in any corner of the world. People can watch the news on TV, in any corner of the world. This is their plus point. This is the power of digital. And that's why in the near future, the digital will be more important. I think. But everyone is in their place. The TV will be in their place. When the TV is coming, the news will be over. The news is not over. People watch TV and watch digital. This is a good thing. The TV will continue to be made. The TV will be over and the digital will come. People will watch the TV and the news will be there. The media will change. The sector boss can watch the news on his mobile. But it won't happen that people won't watch the TV or stop watching the news. Next speaker is already here. Thank you. Supriyaji, thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful conversation on news next or evening. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you once again to all the gentlemen on the screen and I can see another distinguished gentleman joining us just now. Shashi Sinha is with us. CEO, IPG, Media Brands, Indian Chairman at Park India. Thank you very much for joining EPRM 2022 news next edition. And of course we'd also like to invite on screen Mr. Navel Ahuja co-founder. Navel is going to join us at 340 exactly. Till then I'm going to have a conversation because he just landed from Mumbai and started and I'll take it from him. Thank you. Shashi sir, thank you so much for joining us. This is news next. We call it the festival of news. We have the ecosystem here. It's been going on for the last three days at least and we have done a lot of conversations and today we have one more with you which is very critical. I want to begin by asking you it's been a month being the chairman of Park and dealing with the news industry some thoughts how has this month been and very early days for a variety of reasons since I was in Park I was not too keen to get on because I thought others should do it but when people in the ecosystem are board members I also had thoughts for the long haul which probably would affect news also reasonably well. One was what we are doing with 45,000 homes and there were 4 to 5 individuals per home which is 2 lakh people but we thought that there is a large ecosystem in terms of the DTH operators and there are lakhs and lakhs of people there and it's easy to get the data so if we work towards the DTH operators to get a return path which is a possibility and therefore their data will enhance and add to what Park is doing so of course there are lots of challenges in terms of technology and stuff like that that was one thought which I thought if we work in the next 6 to 8 months we can make that happen with everyone's support the DTH operators, the Park team then I think not only will data become a lot more robust it already is pretty good but it will become a lot more robust and also we get all segments of society because just now the way the button pressing behaviour is you need particular segments to also join in so I thought that was one big initiative which you could do. The second one which I thought is that today digital has become very important TV of course is very relevant but I thought digital has become important and while I know the parts are different the CPMs are different for both the medium but Park has worked on the back end for a long time on putting out TV plus digital data so that I think is not a technology issue Park I don't know most people may or may not know is already running a digital panel a TV plus digital panel for 12,000 homes but digital is very small and segmented so digital cannot be measured just to have a sample because of the fragmentation you need sensors so Park has almost been ready the back end is just a matter of getting it in place and getting on with the measurement so that's another challenge but that requires industry support there are lots of other challenges like how to ensure there is no parts coming in all that is an issue so I think these are the two big initiatives that I thought of it but what happened was Rohail that sorry to take some time so those are the long term thoughts that I decided but there is something called the year and now fortunately or unfortunately my technique over coincided with the new ratings coming out the rolling out after almost the 14-15 month gap they came out so obviously there were lots of challenges with that lots of questions because you suddenly found ranking changing so people had lots of questions and therefore we have been putting the data under stress to figure out with it all as well and all so that is happening parallel so I think like any business there is a year and now which in the news case is the news getting coming up because we are doing rolling out which is for the first time so there are lots of details being worked out is the rolling right and all that and obviously what is the result of that and of course there was a European war all the ratings have gone up all the news ratings have gone up across channels so I think these are the two broad strokes one is in the here and now but there is a lot of happened in the last 30 days or 20 days there was this happening this conversation always about the future of TV in a world where digital is becoming a bigger voice and a bigger conversation I mean of course you have spoken about in the past but for our viewers today who have joined us what would you say what is the future of TV for advertising in a digital in a world that is like going largely digital so I will say this to you and that is see today firstly the larger point being made is because of the structure in this country you know because of government reasons and even otherwise competitive reasons subscribers don't pay for content 80% of the revenue which comes with the TV or digital comes in from advertising advertising is paying for the content so any growth of the system whether it is with your TV or digital will come from the fact if subscribers start paying substantial amount as in the world for example sports I have been talking about it but sports primarily subscription or at least 50% subscription in many markets in India it is all advertising so my thinking is that follows because of this always the burden will be on advertising and the burden is advertising then always the existing medium is supported therefore TV CPMs are very high because TVMs still remain a mass medium and in many markets in the world where digital is overtaken TV still plays a strong role so there will be always if I say lack of monetization of digital so CPMs will always be low and that will never make it profitable so in that context I think TV has a lot of juice left in it is my submission lot of juice left in TV I want to touch back on the bath part the concerns that were raised earlier to make it more holistic to make sure that it reflects every conversation in the new the new the new in the new setup that we have now what were the bigger challenges that you saw have been addressed I have seen I have seen a fair deal of data and because my nature is I get hands on if I am not convinced I have seen a lot of stuff in the last three weeks or so I have been there probably every Friday I land up and I see some stuff obviously I do only with the process of the rating that is not my carry but I see postfactor a lot of stuff so there are two things I want to call out one is the news is sensitive the data is sensitive for example without giving too much data away of course elections it will be obvious but even as recent as the problem in Delhi, Thiraj and Delhi the data pictured up so you could see Sunday a spike coming up in news and ask not to question whether what content is the role that you see and you have seen across the board the data picture it up the second thing was the instability of the data that you know the data so to that extent the 4 week rolling average is suppressing the instability I think it has become a lot more stable the downside is that this is the first time 4 week rolling average is coming out so first but clusters could analyze very well they could see their data they could see competition data now the rolling has taken away they will take some time to build that capability so the downside is there are a lot of acts in the market but there are a lot of doubts in the market they are not able to see the benefit they could see the clarity and the train were trained everyone is trained to see the data in a particular way so I think those are the problems where we come from I am seeing the unrolled and the rolled I do a spot check and I see to a great extent of course there is a separate matter of channel tracking changing that is a separate discussion happening it is a parallel track but how can this tracking change that is a separate thing that is for us not to discuss so I think yes people have to get used to the idea of rolling then they bid up the learning girls when we start giving out some high point unrolled data then they will compare and then come to the conclusions so that will happen so this is a national journey I mean the journey just started but at the same time all the rough edges will get to the doubt I will leave these questions to Mr. Ahuja who is joining us in the next 5 minutes but I want to ask you another question which is about media spends how it has after Covid of course a lot has come back and things have improved things are very different well how do you read that shift and what is the kind of growth from here on in your view so two things one is spends have been under pressure so I am not sure whether it will be still back in 2019 because it may not affect news but on overall TV news is about 8-10% of the total TV ads but if you look at if you look at total media spends because of this whole problem started in November December just accelerated it but the whole problem which was due to commodity prices going up all prices problem in transport there is huge cost of one-up and transportation across the world so all this led to big problem in pricing and SMCG is which are mainstream of our they started pulling back reducing advertising so I see it is a tough time to answer your question TV versus digital that is what you alluded to is digital spends digital in performance because in covid times people move focus on performance as on brand building so that would have gone up but just if you look at pure brand building spends and TV plus digital I don't think in my personal opinion digital still not passed TV yet so people say that overall digital but that is mainly because of performance and performance is very difficult to measure and we do have a lot of performance but for us tough means not as bad as covid was but it is going to be careful and watchful but after that we have a strong growth story so finally we are a part of the GDP so growth will come we will gain great on that note Mr. Ahuja is here and thank you for joining us and over to you thank you Rohil Mr. Sinha good to see you thanks for doing this for us today and you know it's been almost a month since you took over as bar chairman I'll get right into it and my first question to you is what is this one month what Rohil asked me so I just quickly repeat so I said you know I had come in with plans this in the long run so I just paraphrased what I just said so you know bar is something which is well as much as you want to plan for the future you also looking at today every Thursday rather so the plan was to look at RPD to spend on the data in the next 6 months the plan was to look at TVPRO these are two part issues I thought but I think just now we have subsumed on what's happening on a week to week basis on ratings news ratings just started so with the rolling average people have to get used to the rolling averages so there are some actually changes on the rolling average side so that is taking a lot of the bar teams time and therefore naturally mine and also we are totally behaving what is the the you know IPL as you know is different from where it was last year so some big things which are here and now with the teams examining obviously with the examining I have a role to play since today is you know more about news as you know we have our news broadcasting awards in the evening the day conferences news next which is about the news television industry your role in bar is you know it's not about the news industry alone it's a lot many more a lot of people you know remind us that the news genre is you know one part a 10% part of the overall you know viewership but I'll focus most of the conversation on the news part of bar let me ask you for you know at the peril of reiteration last you know two years almost one and a half years news ratings were off they have now restarted tell us in just two three points perhaps what are the new things that bar has done in these one and a half years while you know the ratings were off and you know systems were being recalibrated and things were being reset so there are three four things one on the back end and one on the front end so the back end you see because of covid you know bar has a mandate that they have to churn the planet 25% for variety of reasons you know for example with panel fatigue comes in and but yet you have to maintain a consistency also you can't have a perfect churn so what really 25% so bar now and that's a you know covid times churning a panel is not that easy that becomes more difficult how do you go into home and how do you get them to allow you to explain to them what meter is all about so I think we have started the process we also have to be mindful that they can't be too dramatic a change if you churn the page too rapidly then they will run the risk of having too much fluctuation so I think on the back end that's been the biggest challenge is they've done I mean it's also say since I've got this platform that you know bar has not spoken and probably is right for Nakul and Teri to speak about it but there are a lot of technology initiatives they've taken in this pandemic and I think they will talk about it but there's some great stuff especially on the motor parking side which I've seen coming on the front end I think the biggest thing on the front end where people don't realize you see you know when the tech coincidentally I decided to run the tech on that time and now I'm seeing the effort put in my back so when you do the rolling averages rolling average is not too difficult but to do rolling averages along with the data on the same software which is not unrolled for example all the GEC is unrolled like star and ZN this thing that is very tough all the people in the world who normally do a software design from this company in Portugal now data but all of them refuse so for the bar team to pull this up you know to put it out and pull it out I think it's a wonderful achievement I mean people don't give credit because we're so caught up with the here and now and now ratings but it's a remarkable achievement to ensure that on one platform because one of the big demands of the news broadcasters was that we shouldn't be treated in isolation we should be just secondary citizens we should be in the rain software so that planners can see everything together so that's a remarkable achievement no one else in the world has done this there you have some channels so I think that's a big achievement and that's what just come out so I think this is what I want to call out I will also now come to some of the contentious issues the ratings have restarted and a lot of industry constituents have been looking forward to that but exchange for media itself reported few weeks back about some of the concerns one of the the largest industry body which is the NBDA has raised bar with regards to a lot of pointers in the ratings we haven't seen any formal response from bar but if you have some views on the concerns they've raised what is the response there are 3-4 things the broad concerns are in the area of broad concerns in the area of you know what they were used to seeing unrolled data and in the rolling process are things changing and is there a scope for any statistical error coming in that's one so that's the broad area and putting under a box and the other ranking change some rankings have changed third is there's a dramatic increase in reach in the beginning so our whole thing is that so let me answer the last one first the easiest to answer when we launched the ratings the overall genre went up because so much happening outside the war and stuff like that but overall GRBs went up in the news reach went up and that happened for 3-4 weeks and now started dropping because that was the war so that was stabilized so those fears of people that you know why is reach going up so dramatically and you know what we do whenever you see such kind of events our teams don't apply we have an outlier logic we don't apply the outlier which is told to the constituents but problem no one knows in detail so now we have started applying the outliers the regions are coming in so there's a lot more standard and stability on that front that's one the second chapter is that you know which actually even when I took on I was concerned was the gap between unrolled and rolled are there any loopholes there so and I don't want to go into too much of a study so there may be minor issues but broadly speaking I've seen a lot of unrolled data and rolled data the team has shown to me and I think Barkh is pretty consistent there's no problem there the third thing is that channel rankings channel rankings is something you know we are not a content exporter so why have channel rankings changed though channel rankings can change for 2-3 reasons are there is some kind of you know content strategy or something in place which is what we will or there's some infiltration now my point is and which I said and the team Nakul has said and so why and where this forum and to everyone in any broadcaster whether it's a video or anyone listen we open any query which comes to us any hypothesis we are testing and whatever we will test we will respond to we will come back to you now suffice it to say not too much of detail some some trends we are seeing and which we are rectifying you know whatever so I just want to show you when you're the audience through your thing forum that so far we have not seen anything which is in terms of our whole we do a lot of back checks we do a lot of stuff we are doing I won't go into too much detail it's not fair to go into too much detail but the key constituents of variance bodies know what we are doing so the one thing is we have been absolutely transparent with the key constituents we are engaging them a lot of the bulk team's time is going in that information so even mine so the dialogue is on everything we are sharing with me absolutely transparent as possible so and whatever we are finding or not finding we are sharing and reporting so obviously you know if I am known to be candid their public positions and postures people take and they know what the reality is so I think we will be very direct what I can promise you see that we will and the bulk team also double the same to everyone that we will be absolutely transparent it doesn't change from you know on role to role data for moving out which is so everything you throw at us we will answer but throw a logic to us throw something which you see in hypothesis you know so that's what we are doing so I have purposely answered the question I can assure you doing a lot I have answered in a more macro general manner I think the specifics but I can assure you if you talk individually to some of the members you alluded to the letters which came to us they will also say the same thing they will reiterate that we are being transparent and discussing everything possible I think transparency is one very big refreshing change and we hope to see more and more of that as we move along especially big change from the some of the you know going on in the with bark I want to pick you up on a couple of things which are slightly technical in nature I think this outlier thing has been a very big bone of contention not just now but even you know earlier three four years back ever since bark has been operating and you know you as you mentioned you were also head of the techcom of bark for many years before you took on the role of the chairman give us a sense for our viewers to understand you know how does this outlier system work and you know what is the kind of fine tuning that has been done to make sure that there is no kind of skewed absolute there was there were processes in put in place after the problems happened in 2017 discovered in 2019 and now it's completely automated it's not manual to the extent that all of us are scared to say you know so it's a completely process we have been trained you know and you know your audience is very smart they will understand what I will say see the current issues which are rising are not outlier what is outlier there outlier primarily picks up overstated view of behavior someone has left his TV on and gone away from the room and is watching the news for over to any channel for two hours or whatever when you know it's not possible so the outlier picks it so what in bark term is called the ATS the time spent you know that's what it picks up and that is not now the ratings are stable after the first two three weeks the time spent on ATS is not really the problem the whole problem is coming the reach has gone up and some channels reach is you know historically when some channels are seen as strong in reach and others are not and now that's flipped or other cut up on the reach that's the thing and I will suffice it to say that's a large scale thing so you know and I'm saying it as directly as possible it's also as you see this is a small genre not to take away anything from the genre but it is 8 to 10% genre in Hindi news within that is 6 to 7% so a lot of stuff happens in distribution strategies today India is a semi-organized market on distribution and a lot of distribution strategies don't play you know and that so we are the messengers of bark so I'm not saying that we will not examine like I said to you anything within bark we are happy to examine and we will do the speed but I also feel there's a lot happening on the distribution front which smart people understand you know distribution is something for a genre like this for any genre but especially for this genre is something different and that's what probably my personal summary not in bark genre but that's what is happening that's what is playing out one of the associated issues with this has been you know again a long-standing issue of landing pages and we've had you know PRAI intervention in the matter party is going to court there's a supreme court order which is as of date which is still operational as far as landing pages is concerned from bark with regards to landing pages oh thank you for asking this question thank you for asking this question so firstly at this point in time there is a guidance from TRI on landing pages the court is not already at is what I'm told still there's a stay on that time it's an interim order so that's the first point so therefore broadcasters from both sides of the spectrum come to us say you must do something about landing pages and you know others say why should you do the court in the middle let me tell you our stance and this is for the TV industry it affects newsletters more but landing pages affect I mean they're a problem we're looking at the larger industry so the first thing is and I say this on record and if you have faith in believing me one day if you present that bark is created by the landing page algorithm the algorithm is created and I see it's a very very well designed algorithm it's a fabulous algorithm the logic is that I'm sure any anywhere presented in the world as a research paper hands down I was involved in it you're back it's fabulous and I really believe it's fabulous you know having said that the algorithm is designed in a particular way the algorithm is on two chapters it has two inputs one input it is designed not to hurt it is to it is to take away the sampling of little landing pages it is not to take away the viewership from the landing pages and this is a fine restriction people don't make out let me give you a contest a lot of advertisers said listen it's like doing window display in shop if you're doing window display for unfollowing is fine but if you need to purchase we have a what's the problem so the same thing is applied here that if that landing page is needing to sustain viewership so for example I'm not watching IPI but I see a landing page of IPI suddenly says wow cricket is all about fashion and I'm not looking for whatever period 2 hours or 3 hours there's nothing wrong with that genuine viewership but if landing page is you know you're flicking channels you're going from one channel to another and you see a landing page and then you pause and that's caught that may be not that's may not be studied viewership so the algorithm is designed to capture landing pages and there's a time set and which is like with the board's permission the board has decided that this is what pursues and I will not mention on screen my spend is but there's a figure to it so we are capturing that the second thing is you know there's also a formula which we apply and if someone does landing page in some small town beyond the point that we cannot say if someone does massive landing page there will be an impact because if that translates into regular viewership it will be sold out so it's for the board to decide you just cannot you have to knock off all viewership of landing pages that's not what is happening so I'm using this to clarify that the sampling the incident part of the landing page is being caught the regular viewing is happening so it's in two parts and that there's a formula with the board is approved this is where it is so you think the formula is enough to assuage the you know concerns of so I'll tell you so now this is something the board is and I'm saying to strong people I was involved nothing because those who are doing landing pages they say why are you applying a formula if the board has not ruled on it here I have said but here is not the thing that is important so why are you applying a formula in the first place those who are doing and you know those who are not doing landing pages are saying you know even that limit even that thing the people are catching more we are in the middle that we try to protect the TV industry because at one level TV viewership is going down to ensure that whatever viewership is generally it's like like in my field example if you know I did two channels and I saw a landing page on YPL and I came on to YPL and I watched the three hours that genuine viewership so this is the contentious issue that you know you will never swatch people because people are polarized on both sides of the spectrum yeah and it's a as you rightly said if there is a landing page and a viewer ends up being there and then ends up watching that program for a long period of time it is genuine viewership you cannot just you know discount it and you know count it as an outlier so landing page in that sense is a tricky issue the only thing that you know skews the entire equation is that landing pages require investment of money and money muscle then plays a very big part in you know sort of picking that viewership let me come to can I take that on that point because you know large advertisers said listen Hindustani were said and Romantic Indians when the board that they come you know they said listen we have built a infuency and we've gone so big when we do short displays come to some other place you can't do short displays you can't do run schemes you can't do this this is a great practice so you are two ways of looking at the same thing not that I am defending it but I am saying we are here two sides of the coin at any point in time yes absolutely I mean HUL has an X budget and another pair has lesser budget then HUL of course naturally has an advantage and that advantage is earned in the one in the marketplace there is nothing wrong about that absolutely right let me now come to another you know part of the entire equation and there are 2-3 aspects that I will discuss with you you know Barg Chairman being part of Barg is a sort of honorary job that you do for the industry it's a human service you do for the industry you run a large advertising business you are the head of IPG in India one of the top advertising businesses you do a lot of conversations with clients about you know investment across various media vehicles and news is also an important thing now if you were to trace back what's happened in the news domain especially with regards to rating in the last 2 years and where we are today what are the kind of conversations you are having with clients what are the kind of conversations clients are having with you with regards to investment in the news domain especially television news as the viewpoint change as compared to how it was 2 years back and I will qualify this question why I ask this is that a lot of view around is about news being a function of you know 3 sort of pillars one is obviously ratings the other 2 are importantly perception and content right ratings is not the be all and all unlike you know many other media properties news is slightly different so what are the kind of conversations you had with clients which throw some light on you know what's happened in this domain. Thank you for asking this question it's a very important question and I will use this opportunity through your platform to talk about this you know a very wonderful question the first part is as ratings go ratings are important you know let us not get you know be real by the last 20 months or 18 months there because there there was collective commitment to you know start out to move into loading averages and all of us from the agency side to the other side the bodies had turned around and supported this call and say the technology involved and the government coming to say that you know we must allow this to happen but on a long haul you know I would always say that ratings help take advertising decision that's one point having said that there are enough advertisers who also look at content you know so large companies or whatever large companies go by ratings and purely ratings but there are seniors I won't name clients but some of my own senior clients also and I sit on those sessions I started asking questions on you know is the content polarizing or not and what is the content you know they do not necessarily go by this okay put a factor on how the ratings put a factor on that you know and I think that is gaining acceptance I won't use the currency but that is you know and the third thing which is actually an appeal I want to make you know you'd be surprised when I say this now but today unfortunately this whole new space and you know I am not going to say this space has become polarized it's all about share it's all about number one I'm number one and number four between four to five in the morning you know and this is lost to a lot of credibility amongst us and our clients you know and I do various cuts now in the back role I see various cuts because for content on one position to position you know one of the things and one of the things is this genre is not grown think about it the genre is not grown at all in terms of GRPs it is where it is you know in terms of share of these or whatever and you know if I say something to you and I said this to a couple of broadcasts when I met privately CEO's just four or five days after taking over and then listen you know you're so caught up in pulling each other down you don't realize you're pulling the whole industry down I am number one he's not number one or someone cursing someone else you know in the news room it's not you know we are one we are one ecosystem the advertising ecosystem the media is one ecosystem we compete by day we win just now as we speak they are four or five large which is happening but we are friends we take industry decisions together just to this morning just this afternoon I don't mind saying it probably Vikram P.K. M.H.J. Corona call discussing some industry issues you know all the time together so common interests are common interests we're not you know what is happening you know and I'll throw one surprise fact that no one knows today the reach for news is as much as the reach for the agency think about it in HSM so if you take the news genre and today you know a lot of clients cannot reach today news reaches maybe same and maybe more audiences than news that's a big story to tell that's a big story to tell from ensuring you're competing with the I'm not actually the GC guys they are the ones who fund path but that's a story to tell the industry got together and saying this is my story instead of being caught up in you know who's number one this is everyone's number one my client says okay I'll show you some of the big broadcasters I met from my largest clients auto clients I had done a cut for news and who's number one there in that because the client is not credibility and all the details all the mailers coming at him all the things we made it doesn't matter to me so I think somewhere if I could appeal you know I said this personally to many broadcasters this is the time for the news thing to get over the divide of these two associations and you know then fighting with each other and all getting into a share game and say listen what is happening news thing and that's how the question which you ask I'm not confident on the content I'm not confident on content but I say this lands are asking questions that is this the content we want to see you know so so so thank you for asking this but I think yes ratings is the base but beyond the base a lot to be done perception matters and the battle will be lost and people will be to blame with the perception with the news guys themselves and most importantly like you said content is important there won't be any brands who would want to talk who would want to be on content which is negative in nature which is poisonous or vitriolic and I think that concern also plays very importantly in the mind and adding to that ratings is also a function of many things like you rightly said reach is one of very important aspect that news broadcasting industry can talk about you know it is not just time spent reach plays a very big part and for a lot of legacy established players reach is a very very important aspect they are still very ahead on reach I'm making a slightly different point my point is that you know the fight today is on channel shares that you know I'm number one I'm number two I'm not number one you know the game is that how to expand how to grow this business if I was suppose the CEO or whatever association both I would get both of these two guys fighting amongst yourselves see how can you grow the business finally you know how do you grow profitability is a very the country's interest if news become sustainable the country will grow not only from an economic point of view but also from a social cultural point of view and for that it's not about fighting starting a room and saying I've done this to legends of the industry saying this is what has happened and you know what I'm trying to say it is important to be in it together that's the point absolutely we kind of you know work together we join hands together the industry grows we keep fighting each other we pull everybody down let me now come to since we're talking about content let me now come to a recent development last week we all saw the government issue that sort of dictated the government issue advisory regarding content of news channels I know content is not the purview of part but as an industry captain as an as Bach chairman as well as you know head of IPG in India what's your view on you know that government dictates and the observation or the so I'm speaking this in my personal capacity because I'm very mindful that what I say is Bach Bach has no view on content you know Bach is a measurement body just puts out data what happens you know in fact Nakul and me having a discussion I said to him Nakul we should not even hear hypothesis that because of this or that it's just a thing you know my personal view is that it is a sad day that the government has to step in to talk about content you know in a way and I'm not a this is not my area of expertise but I'm sure they're very very senior and smart people here in our competitive pressures we have worked into this whole thing you know today I don't know why but I've not understood today we recommend to our clients that listen you're taking a news channel because reach is there but thanks for this let's take a book it no one takes one news channel every client takes a book here of 5, 6, 7 news channels you know so where is the fight you are getting your rates which you are getting you are getting your pay this why this fight why this fight in ratings to say I'm not number one why this fight in content you know looking at it larger so I personally feel that's the point I was making to you earlier that it's not really rating and advertising driven it is you know a larger cause news has to be particular quality and that's what matters finally we will lose the product so it's very sad that government has to put out a structure saying that this kind of stuff should not happen okay let me now come to the last question I see other panelists have already joined for the next session in the government instituted a committee 2 years back for kind of overhauling the bar ecosystem it was chaired by the Prasad Bharti Chairman Shashi Vempati and a lot of recommendations are made is there any light you can throw for our thank you for calling it all right for what in the middle of this old news my entry to bark with the rolling news coming back everything got subsumed but we are moving the speed on that firstly we have to change the articles all that is with the government but I think there are 3-4 key things on the call out first is independent directors of the board we are the most finalizing we are talking to people once the articles are approved by the government we have the names ready we will get four independent directors in place then Techcom we already decided we have restructured the Techcom to ensure there is fair participation and independent people in Techcom named and finalized they will be coming on board so these are two broad recommendations there are many other recommendations but in all fairness we are moving the speed on so a lot of those recommendations we are moving the speed because they were generally good for the organization so I think fair degree of a lot of those protocols in terms of you asked our question our class being process driven rather than subjective so some of them already in place and hopefully is so lucky to be in the tenure at this point in time and this is happening so you see the next couple of months all this in place fantastic that's so good to hear before I go Mr. Shinaz today is about news newspapers also play a very important part in the entire news ecosystem they sort of the newspapers are still very relevant 20% of the advertising pie still goes there do you think anything is happening on the measurement as far as newspapers are although it's not Barks you know domain but you are an industry leader unfortunately or fortunately both Vikram and me and the same committee at account chair so both of us involved we were trying to do a common currency you know saying because and there were two things we were saying one we were saying that this will be a common currency between you know the baseline of Barks or MRBCI or whatever to create that and there we are pushing very strongly which we are doing carefully in the case of TV but we are pushing strongly for TV again that we are down there because I think a lot of definitely gone online but TV it has but I think the shift is more in print and therefore we are saying those you know instead of it aggregating with all the big aggregation groups if it goes to that newspaper itself so that is a bit of a slow one I mean I'm disappointed that it's running slow the vision is big but it's not there but I would again appeal to those guys to say listen the faster we get measurement of the ground and again it will be wonderful for them fantastic thank you Mr. Sinha thank you for doing hopefully we will be back on ground next year and the session will be face to face with you thank you back to you Ravind thank you Mr. Rahul he was in conversation with Mr. Sashi Sinha and what a conversation that was thank you gentlemen once again for your valuable time and truly adding much more value to this wonderful 11th edition as well thank you thank you and now ladies and gentlemen we are moving towards the last session for the day that we have and this is one of the most interesting sessions that I have been personally waiting for now we are talking about the perils of reporting from a war zone and it's truly an honour to introduce the panel to you these are the faces that have given us the news that really and truly matters in the moments that are the most difficult to do so and with that I would like to introduce the panel to you we have Shweta Singh with us senior executive editor special programming at Aaj Tak we have Manit Malhotra consulting editor News X Mr. Karan Bhatia joining in strategic business consultant at exchange for media Gaurav C. Sawant senior executive editor India Today and Aaj Tak Meghna Sharma assistant executive editor at News X Abhijeet Aayir Mitra well known author and media expert it's an honour to have him and of course the moderator the lovely face synonymous with the exchange for media Mr. Rohil Amin senior editor at exchange for media so that's your panel and I'm absolutely thrilled to introduce this to you Rohil Thank you so much not so lovely but thank you so much for these kind words well we have a very interesting topic which we don't often talk about in media and we have here who have covered news went all the way and seen the real danger face the real danger brought the news to us so we have with us you know I mean I want to start with you Gaurav since you are here and I will bring in Shweta after that then Abhijeet Gaurav give me a sense of when it comes to reporting a war Indian channels versus the global media where do we stand in this because is it just an eyeball game for us still I would really or is it something which is you know humane more driven by bringing out the real facts and agony of the people Thank you very much Rohil for having me on this very lovely panel for us it's not about eyeballs for us and I can't talk about the India Today group because whether it's this conflict in Ukraine or the situation in Ladakh counter terror operations for us it's not about eyeballs it's telling a country about what's happening on ground and reporting it as factually as accurately as possible in the fog of war and that's exactly what Shweta and I have done in Ukraine in Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir that's been our effort throughout and you know whether we are reporting from Libya or from Egypt or from Lebanon or from Iraq the effort was always to get to the heart of the story get to the bottom of the story get your ground realities get our viewers and get our cameras up close you know so our camera persons they would film we weren't shooting from if I may like some other instances with some journalists you know from hotel balconies or receptions or lawns we would get to Kharkiv we would get to Mariupol you know we would be in Boucha and Irpin while those bodies were still there while that Shelling was still on to get to that story and nobody thinks of eyeballs at that time you only want to bring the story to your viewers Rohil Shweta your thoughts on this if you heard my question so sorry we can hear you we can't hear you is it okay now? so I would just say that the Indian media was much more bold than all of the international media number one I would say we did not have bulletproof jackets because like Gaurav went there when the war hadn't started when I went there we had to walk on foot so I already had a 30 kg load on my back walking for 4 km till I could get a taxi to move around in Ukraine so bulletproof was the last of our priorities so we were without bulletproof and yet we ventured into areas where there was active firing and Shelling so unlike the international media which was mostly in Lviv the area where all the embassies were so I would say that yes the Ukraine war was the first time when you saw I would often joke that it's almost like the Vijaychok for Indian media like all of Indian media is there at Vijaychok and all of Indian media was there in Ukraine and I think all of us at least 99.99% of us knew that we were representing our country and when we were venturing into these areas India being neutral our stand as a journalist if whether we were covering it from Ukraine or we were doing it from Russia was completely neutral and we were the bravest journalists I think all across the world every single Indian journalist was the bravest I mean not caring about bulletproof jackets tells the story itself if I had it we would definitely wear it that was just because you have to choose what you've got to put your batteries, your tapes, your cameras and bulletproof can wait we got it later we were issued bulletproof jackets in Kiev before I bring in Vijaychok I do at the end because I have wanted you to sum up what they say I will have also Mr Karan Bhatia asking you a couple of questions you my co-moderator Megha at this point your thoughts of Indian journalists covering war internationally how evolved have we become in your view Absolutely I definitely agree with Gaurav and Shweta and while I was covering from studios and my reporters were out there covering the entire conflict zone there were a lot of challenges there were a lot of problems that these people had to face I would definitely have to say that we, the Indian journalists the Indian reporters were at the top of our game and like Shweta said it was a neutral ground on which we were actually covering that entire it continues to go on even now and it has been more than a month and then the big question about the conflict that the western media portrays when a Ukraine-Russia conflict happens versus what Russia continues to say or the Russian allies continue to say it was important for the Indian media to put up its stance which was a neutral stance and that gave us a lot of commendability from international media as well and I think perhaps the first time around there have been international news channels international media houses that have been looking at Indian media and Indian journalists who have been getting into the trenches figuring it out by themselves and giving us neutral coverage of what actually happened it was a scary situation I had my reporters I had my executive editors who were travelling over there and they were bombing and shelling that would take place behind their back and they would just have to hurry up and that's a scary situation and like Shweta and Gaurav said that you would not have those life jackets to save yourself from the bombings that took place and that's an extremely dangerous situation to be at so kudos to us kudos to Indian media to have evolved to a stage where international media is now looking at us and even gaining some sort of perspective as to how to look and I also feel that we have come of age in terms of not looking at foreign media any longer and already raising a bar and saying that this is us this is what we are reporting and as much as you would like to talk about you being neutral and you being unbiased that's not the situation and here's what the new world order is and here's what our stance is really I think you're muted sorry Vinith I want to bring in sorry yeah can you hear me? hi everyone yes please your thoughts on this how we cover war where have we arrived in terms of experience coverage in terms of insights I saw Gaurav and Shweta go to Ukraine and cover this and when I saw them that's when I think every journalist realizes that that's what you signed up for there could be a situation in your life where you will have to do that unfortunately for me and Megha we could not go but I grew up in Russia my father was a diplomat so I've been to Ukraine, I've been to Russia I know how cold it can get how nasty it can get and how difficult the terrain is the language problem and the way our journalists were able to handle all of that and not even make break a sweat about it it was a very humbling moment for all of us you can sit in the studios and opinionate about a number of things but I think the action is where the war is and this time around what happened in Ukraine I think Indian media was very intrepid it was very bold I think there were wars in the past as well when we did not go all out we did not in fact consider it too important so we did not send as many journalists as we would have liked to but this time I saw everybody did it and it was not for the TRPs I think it was basically to tell the people the truth and I think that was a defining moment in Indian media it's very important to understand that a journalist he could be an important person in the studio but when he goes to a war zone he's vulnerable, he's volatile he's reporting facts we attacked, we have lost a few journalists as well in Afghanistan if you remember when the Americans were leaving we did lose a couple of guys who were risking their life so I think it lent a lot of perspective to people like me as well I have reported in the past but I have never been in a situation where I had to think about my life at the same time figure out what's going on it was a very dynamic situation and I think it was like a Rubicon was crossed we covered it Abhijit here your perspective will be different so as Shweta said it was like a Vijay Chowk where every new channel was seen one Indian news channels have suddenly found not suddenly, they have become now they go out, they report not just India, beyond that how do you see this transition what are your views on it is it happening the right way your observation on that sorry okay is this better so see there's two aspects to this first is when you actually go report on the ground during a war it's different when you're posted out there as a correspondent see getting posted out there being there for 2-3 years at least minimum would give you a lot of ground context as to what's happening whereas when you land up there during the war it's extremely tactical you're covering what you're seeing now one of the problems that I realized was when I landed up in Afghanistan a lot of our trips to interview Taliban and things like that used to get blocked by shelling or fighting or whatever was happening and the problem there was you'd only see what the Taliban wanted you to see when you get embedded like for example on this side Ukraine was very open to having