Okay, excellent. Good morning. Convenium Massachusetts Gaming Commission. And we're holding this virtually so I'll do a roll call. Good morning, Commissioner Brian. Good morning, I'm here. Good morning, Commissioner Hill. Good morning, I'm here. Commissioner Hill I'm looking for you there you are. I need to pin these up apparently. Before I go on. Hi Katrina. It's great to see you. Thank you. Good morning, Commissioner Skinner. Good morning. And good morning, Commissioner Maynard. Good morning. Okay, so how to order this public meeting number 141 it is March. 15. And we have two sets of minutes this morning. So Commissioner Hill. Yes, before I make my motion, Madam Chair, I just want to point out in the, and I'm pulling it up. So bear with me one second. The February 15 minutes in the very first approval of the minutes for February 1, there was a vote that was taken. The motion passed unanimously for nothing with the meeting adjourned. That should be five nothing. We've already been in contact with legal, and it's already been rectified. We just didn't get them to you in time for today's for this meeting to take place but that has been rectified and that was an error that we have. So I just want to make sure that everybody is aware of that before I made my, my motion, which is now Madam Chair, I move that the commission approve the minutes from the February 15, 2023, and March 1, 2023 agenda setting meetings that are included in the commissioners packet subject to any necessary corrections for typographical errors for other non material matters. Thank you. Any, any edit or question. Okay, Commissioner Brian. Hi. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Mr. Skinner. Hi. Mr. Maynard. Hi. And I vote yes. Excellent. So this is okay. I just want to make sure that we have a legal for its good work on the minutes that really so critical. I know I mentioned that before, but I can't go for stated. So thank you. All right, let's start with our notes for our agenda planning. We do have a meeting this afternoon of one item. I just want to note that with a record and let's stop this afternoon. I think actually it starts right after this meeting, probably around 1130. Correct. Yeah. And then. Our next scheduled meeting is March. 23rd. Okay. I think we have an update. Yeah. So if we could keep that on the agenda. We haven't heard from Burke in a little bit. So do you think there would be something for the update from the field on from the casino? So, or do you want to wait until the following meeting? No, we can, I think we were talking about an update on table numbers. And I think commissioner O'Brien wanted a little update on that one pit by. Okay. Yeah. Do that on the 23rd. Excellent. Okay. Yeah. I think we, we may have. Just at least one new hire to introduce that meeting, but other than that, I don't have anything at this point. Okay. I think you've noted and we love this organization of the minute meetings for October 27th. So that's still the case. That is still the case. Oh, thank you commissioner. Okay. Then we're moving on. I assume no other minutes. We'll move on to regulations and got a slew of them. Yes. The list in the. In the packet is accurate for the 23rd. Any questions commissioners on that. Okay. Caitlin, I have one question. What is the posture of all these? So when I draft up the agenda, is it in the first instance, or what should the language be around each agenda item? Sure. We can absolutely send you sort of the template language, but these are all for a final vote. Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, for instance, I know for sports, weight ring advertising, that's definitely on its last day. But that being noteworthy, Caitlin, for commissioners, is there anything else that you want to bring our attention to? No. Oh, sorry. Okay. All right. We're all set for that. And we've set March 27th as a possible roll over date. Correct. Caitlin. That's, that's right. And when we get to it. We're going to get to it. Okay. So Carrie and I were talking this morning about maybe just out of an abundance of caution, adding them to the 28th as well. And I know that's sort of a different agenda item for that day, but again, just total abundance of caution if we needed it for, for anything else. The 28th we reserve for an entire day for the assessment of category two. So I don't think we'll have time for the 28th. Okay. Does that impact you in terms of days? No, we could. Again, this is just. Okay. Yeah, I think we might have that down for agenda setting, but we could add some time. That's really out of abundance of caution. But we could do that. That could be helpful just because there are so many regs and the advertising reg is so detailed. It might be helpful to just have even a second roll over date just in case. Okay. Okay. So I'm Trudy. If you're on, I assume she is. If you could put a hold on it as much of Wednesday. The 29th. Just for potential carry over issues. I love the color. Trudy. I wish I were there today with you. So you could. I don't know commissioners if how much, I think there might be some conflicts. I don't know. I don't know your schedules well enough on the 29th, whatever we can carve out. Or to save. We could always, if necessary, push on agenda setting up earlier. How's it looking? The 29. Oops. I think I'm on mute. I don't know. No, we can hear you. Okay. I'm. Turning my books pretty good. It looks like there's already a hold. For the agenda setting at 10 to 1130. Right. So, and then after 1130. After 1130. It looks pretty good from 1130 to. One o'clock. Right. And if there's internal meetings, we could push those around. I think that's a good idea. Exactly. Exactly. Anything that's on here is definitely internal. So those could be moved. If you could just put a hold throughout as long as possible, then we'll make sure to get these regs done. So thank you. So that will work. Caitlin. But that would be great. Thank you. Busy first three days for us commissioners. 28th again being. And they'll get to it. All right. Okay. The 28th has been mentioned a couple of times. We haven't, we haven't been, we're back on the 23rd. Just give me a chance. I was just taking care of the regulations for the 23rd Loretta. And we've got a series. So if you could just bear with me, because I don't want to lose track of the 23rd. So 23rd, we're going to start the slew of regs. Continue on the 27th. And we've done some saving of time on the 29th. So now. We have a number of items, which we've been asking for. To. Learn five. Alex. Good morning. These are the, pretty much standard operating procedure. Items that we do every year. They have also asked for that. Number five, the qualifying race. Change. Over, you know, four or five years now. So we'll. We're ready for those two. Okay. They should be fairly quick. two racing, actually there's a third, the Suffolk Downs request. Yeah, Suffolk has a request to approve Draft King's course as an ADW provider. So the pay won't be too long, correct? Right, that shouldn't be very long either. It's, you know, similar to other ones we've done in the past. Okay, so we'll start the, we'll take care of the racing items at the beginning of that meeting, Karen, I think. Hi, Crystal. Okay. I'm not going to ask, is there anything else on the 23rd? I had one quick one, if I could. All right, I'll ask. Hi, Derek. Oh, and Mark is raising his hand. Oh no. I had mine up first. We need to get a clarification on the prohibition on Russian participants for MMA fighters. And just on the exact wording, it should be a real quick item. But we've gotten a lot of requests from the operators. Commissioner, does that sound like a really quick item? Yeah. Is it a request for a clarification or a request to reconsider? No, it's a clarification to exactly whether it's. Sponsored fighters or Russian citizens that fight with not under the Russian flag per se. So it's a clarification as to what that, that exactly means. And legal suggests that we bring it before you to get the clarification. Can we have something in writing that. Yes, you will. Yes. Yeah. That will probably be really helpful for us to. Yes. Think about, thank you. Yep. Okay, Bruce. All right, Mark. Are we. We know we have the framework. Is that we have the research. Yeah. And you know, I was thinking about this. Our goal is to have this approved by the end of April. And this is sort of the kickoff discussion of that. So we can, we could, as long as, I feel like as long as we get this done at March. And then we do need to have a discussion about the G pack meeting. Yeah. And I'm in touch with the G pack individual in the chair. And so I'd let him know that we were a little delayed on this piece. So we'll organize the date of the G pack. On this research agenda.  The other day. So I'm teasing him about, oh no, Mark. We have to have. I almost feel like we should have a. A, a, a, a short meeting to accommodate it, which we could, that could be a solution to commissioners. But otherwise we were pretty much booked for the 23rd. And then 27. Yeah. And I have a couple more potential items for the 23rd. Madam chair. We could. Sorry. So. Caitlin. Caitlin, I am. See. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. But we may be able to put these off. So. I need to do another short. Another meeting, but we can think about that. Okay. Yeah. It does get, it would be helpful to try and. A number of meetings, but let me go through these and see what everyone thinks. So. Number one is the. Point spent withdrawal. So we did confer with the legal department about whether there needs to be any official action. In addition to that, the commission has already been notified by the commission on their withdrawal. We did get the notice. They have, we have been in touch with them. They have submitted something in writing for the commission's consideration. If the 23rd is, is booked, we could bump that to another meeting. I don't think there's any urgency since the commission has already been notified of that. And there's no issue with respect to the public. So we could bump that to the April 6th meeting. As well. So that may be the, the best solution. I'll just defer to how you want to. Okay. Yeah. Alrighty. Okay. The other one, the other issue is better. I don't know, Bruce, if you heard back from them about. Not yet. Not yet. I hope to hear today. I'm going to reach out and call them. So they had indicated maybe two or three week. For the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the postponement of their launch. So if that is the case, they may be looking to launch as early as the 24th, would have been two weeks. So the outstanding matters are the house rules approval and the obstetrics. For better. So what we could do is. Just put that to the side and see what we hear back from them, but we're not sure how it's going to go. So that's why we're going to put the house rules and the obstetrics. But what it's worth, Karen, I, I saw something. I don't know if it's social media, where I saw it, but it seemed as I was better was saying they were rolling out. The beginning of April. We just need to make sure we have that on the radar screen and we're not caught off guard.  It sounds like commissioners. business. That's okay. We can figure it out. I mean, Judy, as you're looking right now, our schedule over through the end of March, next week and through the end of March, if there's any couple of hour period to take care of some of this work, including Mark's research agenda, that might be helpful. Okay. Madam Chair, I also wanted to point from my notes that we had initially agreed to a 9am start on the 23rd, but it's showing up as 10 on the, I just bought us an extra hour to go there. I have a hard stop. That's why we were moving it early, because I actually have a hard stop at about 2.30, 2.45 on that date. Right, I'm sorry. And maybe that just didn't get moved. And I'm sorry for not noting it. Trudy, I think we're starting then on 9am. Which day though? The 23rd. Oh, yeah, we've got it down as 9am. Maybe it's just not showing as a calendar. Trudy, can you just back that up an hour, please? This is evidence of when promotions happen, there's just a few little things that takes at least two people for Trudy. Up Trudy, you are on mute. Oh, good. So 9am on the 23rd, if you could back that up and then it's a hard stop at what time? 2.30? I'm about 2.45. I don't know what Jordan's is. I may have to check onto the phone a little earlier, but I'll make sure. Yeah, it looks like the hard stops at 2.30. I might take away my promise to Alex to start and put you near the end because Commissioner Maynard may want to deal with the maybe easier for him to deal with the regs in front of a computer than by phone for racing. You're missing it is time sensitive, correct, Alex? Yeah, correct. And we had discussed at the last agenda setting that we might put the racing items at the end so that you all could do the regs early. Thank you. I did notify the tracks involved that racing was probably going to be at the end of the day. So they're prepared for that. I wasn't going to bring it up because the day is so full. Bring it up. I didn't mean to intimidate everyone. Bring it up, everyone. We'll figure it out. Sevo tool is ready to put in his request for reimbursement of the two promo handicapping contest that they had last year. And that's also a pretty quick item. You know, Chad would present that one. And he's got all the backup documents and everything already. So if we are going to push racing to the end of the meeting, if it would be possible to add that on? Yeah, I mean, we wouldn't push it past the date, the time that the two commissioners have to leave. But I'm just trying to accommodate a commissioner may not be in mobile mode a little bit. I don't want to upset the apple card. And I can also start a 30 if that helps or age or whatever kind anybody wants to start. I'm always happy to do early. Yeah, it's a forum without me. Obviously, you know, the racing stuff needs to be dealt with. So if I need to disappear, and you're still going, obviously. Okay, same on mine. Okay. Which I know I see you're speaking. Are you talking to someone else? I am actually working on an issue as you guys are talking this out. So I was talking to somebody else. Okay, thank you. Sorry. And I want you to know it is it is work related gaming commission related. Alex, could you please shoot me over the language for that reimbursement for the promos? Okay, now back to Karen because she has I know more. Yeah, so that and then Crystal and I have been chatting and she's with groups and legal into this. There are some requests for clarification with respect to advertising and marketing that looking through it, it seems to make sense. We may want to have commission input on these. It is the kind of these are, for example, you know, disclaimer language where they have, you know, one of these banners at a sporting event, or problem gaming language. So as we're talking, we're trying to figure out the best way to do this. As we're talking, I'm realizing you have the advertising reg in this list of regs. So I'm wondering if it's appropriate to, as we're going through the reg at the agendas at the public meeting, we can bring up some of these questions and get clarification. Crystal does have a memo and pictures and you know, has done a nice job on this, I could send that to the commissioners so that when we get to the reg, we may just add an agenda item and also some points of clarification. It may just help in that, you know, for the future. Karen, I'm going to I'm going to jump in because I can see Caitlin getting terribly uncomfortable because this is the final day for advertising. And anything that we kind of do on the fly, we've learned is not probably really helpful. With respect to advertising and media, we've had to go back and make a couple of corrections. So when you say, we'll address it the day of the reg. I'm wondering, is that something I think it would take many steps before the 23rd, for you to work with legal, make sure to work with A&K, get proposed language, and see if that really still works for Caitlin and team. I just don't know how involved the request is, Karen, because it is the final day for the advertising reg. And I don't want to. Yeah, and Crystal jump in, if you have any thoughts, but the the questions are more not, I don't anticipate it's necessarily changing the reg, but under the reg, how does, you know, there's things about size and font spec. There's, if the logo is used, what else do they have to have for language? There was another question, you know, we wanted to confirm we can utilize the term free bet in conjunction with a promotion that awards the offer upon registration where there is no deposit or wages are acquired. This is similar to the pre-launch campaign the company offered in Ohio. The font issue is actually one that because we did it too fast, it exploded and we had to fix. So it's not necessarily as simple as we might have big years. So what do you recommend, Karen and Caitlin? Then commissioners chime in because maybe I'm anticipating unfairly complexities. I would actually want to see Crystal's memo because I feel like that would inform the timing of it. I mean, right now it's all, I don't know exactly the parameters of the question. I do think a couple are probably going to be very simple clarifications and I've included some of the guidance we've given or how we've reacted based on the regs. But, you know, the one that Karen is mentioning that would probably is probably already under Caitlin's consideration is that fonts and specs. The others are just more clarifications based on how they're reading it and ensuring our interpretation is in line with yours. I would say I would not be inclined to sort of mix going through reg comments and evaluating the reg for final vote with sort of clarification questions. I think that could just lead to some confusion. But what I'd be happy to do like we did previously is, you know, work with Karen and Crystal. And last time this sort of issue came up and there were questions on sort of reg interpretation, we put that document together for the commission that had what the questions were and what, you know, the questions, the proposed interpretation and then the commission could evaluate that and do it separately. So, Caitlin, could we do the regs on the 23rd? And then I know we have the meeting on the hold on the 27th. Would we have a separate agenda item after that? Or what makes sense? Because I do recognize we have operators asking questions if we're saying we don't have the answer. I would say I think that the 20th, if you put it as a separate agenda item on the 27th, that could work. If we get through the advertising reg. And I'm also thinking in my mind, you know, to the extent the advertising reg is going to change at all, that could change the answers too. So I think some of these are happening at the same time. Sorry, Caitlin. I was going to say we can, I'm certainly amenable to whatever you want. But the 27th is kind of a long time when we're talking about marketing that's going out right now. So some of these clarifications where I think I'm just looking for a way to make sure they're in line with what we're talking about and not necessarily adjusting the regs. So I'll let Karen handle that. But it just seemed like as we're pushing these off, they've been asking these for weeks already and we're waiting and waiting. So what I'm hearing is not what I first heard from Karen was astounded as though it would be changed to the regulatory framework, which as I said, as I said, who could cause problems, right? But what I'm hearing now is that our operators are looking for clarification and not necessarily change. So we didn't add that to today's agenda. That would be my delay given I was out the last couple of weeks. So we don't have another meeting scheduled until the 23rd. 23rd is Thursday. We've got commitment to regulations. How do you want to handle clarifications to operators Karen? I hear that legal says that we need our input. So the regulation isn't clear? So I'm not sure that I'm speaking for myself. I don't know what the particular issues are outside of what I've just heard. So maybe we can knock some things off the list that are more straightforward. Sorry. I don't know if anyone else from legal knows what's going on with the average. I'm wondering if some of this is preference like the request of well it says X and Y but if I do X is it okay if I don't do Y? If it's stuff like that it's more sort of a preference request as opposed to a confusion request. So again, I'd love to see what the actual memo says. Well, and I'd love to have the team address as many of these operational issues as possible, unless there really is lack of clarity in our regulation. So I think sharing the memo is fine, but to the extent that team and maybe it means you all need to sit down together, you know, and and and think about what they're asking for and find out if you really need a clarification. Our intentions I think are pretty clear. We've spent an awful lot of time on advertising. What do you think Commissioner? Is anything you want to add? No? No, I would agree with that. So that actually is very helpful because that's sort of also kind of the question, you know, if we have a sense this is the direction of the Commission, can we go forward and give this guidance?  That may be the most efficient way to go forward. Commissioner is also without knowing anything about what Karen mentioned with respect to free bats. I have no, I don't know about that, but I think all of us agree that if it says free, it better be free. Yeah. Free, a risk, free, free, free, free, free. Yeah. Right. Okay. So why don't, so Madam Chair, why don't we do this? I can circle back with Crystal and the legal department and person, his team, come up with, okay, are there solid interpretations that we can go forward with?  Does that make sense? No, Commissioner, is there anything you want to add? I see. We'll send the memos so you know what's going on. Yeah, that would be great. I need anything that you want to add? I was, it was actually a totally different issue that I wanted to run, that I'd forgotten. Let's just see if the other Commissioners have anything to add on advertising. Are you all set? I'm all set. Thank you. Okay, I'll set Brad and Jordan already. Thanks. Great. Thanks. Good work. Sorry, that's helpful. Okay. That's all that I had at this point, Madam Chair, for the 20th. And then the research agenda, which I know is on your list too. Yeah. So I've gotten the outstanding items that we either would add to the 23rd, but it would probably be, it might be tricky, would be the points that the better they're going to find out about their timing and the research agenda.  So if that won't allow me folks, because it's a shorter day, is there, we may look for also another date to maybe address some of these items? And was somebody going to just jump in? I was just going to say that you forgot Bruce's item. Oh. Yeah, I definitely got him on for the 20th. Yeah. Well, I thought that that was one that was definitely, I've got that. I wanted to circle back to the ad that was, I think, disseminated the better online where, you know, play on their free, and then they convert to value after they launch that ad. I wanted to know if that was going to be coming in front of us sooner rather than later. I have, I don't know about this item. This is the one that I had asked if they could forward off to the other commissioners at the last meeting because it had been brought to my attention and sent to IB and sports wagering team. I think I know what you mean. I'm not sure. I need to understand why it would come before us, Eileen. It's a question I had about advertising in terms there were a couple of different aspects to it. It changed over time. I think Crystal got a screenshot of it, sort of the middle iteration that I've seen. The premise of it is getting people to do KYC, get on and play for free right now, and then their winnings would be converted to value after, and whether that was something that basically ran afoul of them not having their opt certificate and their house rules approved yet, and some of the language about the triggering event being the go live date, which is a little vague right now and whether there was any sort of problem with that. I think we're still looking at that. Eileen, at this point, would come before you when we're all done looking at it. Yeah, I'm just wondering if you might be able, because there's still confusion amongst the five of us, whether you could even give a high profile view of what I just expressed. Yeah, not at this time. No, I mean for the next meeting, or if we're doing something on the 22nd, queue it up for the 22nd, if we're doing it day early to get everything in.  All right, if I may, I would just add that we're presently refining the protocol to make sure that all of those types of issues get uniformly reviewed and brought to the commission as appropriate. We're going to talk about one momentarily at our next meeting, so I think it's helpful for them all at the moment to go to Bruce and, you know, he will review them with the team and then we'll make sure the commission is surprised and makes all decisions that are necessary as we move forward. But it's still a bit of a work in progress, but that's, I think that would be a helpful approach at this point. Okay. So again, Nekisha, thank you for the Bruce's reminder, but I think the Russian question about the catalog will definitely put that on and the racing items will have on for the 23rd. I want to give the research agenda proper due in Mark's team the time it needs to go through that really important exercise that we need to do annually. And then we've got the points bet and better. House rules and certificate of operations is still there. How some valleys are they going to be about at the same time? And can we do both at the same time, Karen? I thought they were a little later Bruce, but we could possibly do it at the same time. I think we'll probably be ready for it first. Just a question. That betters house rules are a lot shorter. So we'll be able to do them at the same time. Yes. About balance. Pardon me. We'll go about it. We'll go about it. Ballies. I don't, Starle, do you have ballies yet? All all in? No. Alice hasn't sent us anything. Well, some time after May is what I have in my notes. We just do better first. No. And better did publicly say, I noted, I think it was first week of April. Yeah. And nothing on from fanatics. Okay. Just trying to double up. All right. So, Mark, can you stay tuned a bit and let me see if we can find a date for you? Is that okay? Yeah, that's fine. Madam Chair, just that as long as we can get it in March, it would be great. Oh, yeah. I'm hearing. Yeah. Okay. It would definitely be March. The Gaming Recruit Advisory Committee at the beginning of beginning middle of April before it goes back to the Commission for a final of the information. Right. Right. So I'm planning looking at both sets of dates. Okay. Thank you. All right. So now we're moving to March 27th. We'd roll over the regs and you'll make sure to prioritize any that are going to be on their final date for the 23rd at the top of the 23rd meeting. And then adding to the 20th, the racing items, Steve O'Toole's request. Okay. Okay. On the promo. All right. So 27th, the 28th. Good morning, Director Lillios. Hi, Kathy. Good morning. Yeah, I was a little over eager to discuss the 28th. It was very strategic, Loretta. It's strategic. So a reminder that as part of the IED's review for preliminary suitability of this applicant, we are reviewing their agreement with Caesars. This, you know, we've talked before that this Category 2 applicant, it's a different animal than our Category 1 applicants who were already licensed by us in operating gaming establishments. So this review of the agreement is an important part of the preliminary suitability review. We are preparing a memo now highlighting various provisions of that agreement. That agreement itself is available for you. It's in your in your saved documents with the application. So if you wanted to look at it, it's been there, but we will be distilling the terms in a memo for you. And, you know, that we envisioned as being a topic that you would want to tackle at the beginning of the meeting, you know, the suggestion would be that you get into that at the early part of the meeting on the 28th. Yeah, I've got to think about that because of the way we've done our assessments of the applications. You know, they usually start with a presentation, commissioners. I just wonder if the contract can just be integrated into discussion. Does it need to be a separate or I know that's what you're envisioning. But what do you think commissioners and Lorena? I agree. I don't see it as a separate item. But I think there are terms of it that may be different enough from what you've seen that you would want to be able to give it full attention. Certainly hearing from the applicant first on their presentation, you know, that I don't have a strong feeling about that. Maybe we will have them set the stage for their presentation in their demonstration. And then that's going to organically introduce the arrangement that they have with Caesars as their operating vendor. And then the particulars we could ask about and perhaps have when we have our experts, right, weigh in RSM. We need to make sure RSM is available. I haven't arranged for that, Karen, but RSM. They know about it. Okay, good. And GLI and then IEB. Commissioners, maybe we have IEB walk us through the contract at that time so that we understand the elements and we've already gotten kind of that high level introduction from the applicants themselves to explain it and then go delve into the details after we've gotten that high level. What do you think about that format? It is a different element and I appreciate you're ready wanting to make sure that the contract is clear to us. And then go into your IEB report after that. Looking for input, guys. It made sense to me if Loretta is okay with it. I don't see why we can't just incorporate the discussion of the agreement into the licensed application discussion. I'm okay with that. Okay. Commissioners, what do you think? I would defer to Loretta and legal I mean they've seen the contract so unless they say this is something that needs to be dealt with in advance of the application review it sounds fine unless oh I guess maybe I wasn't hearing you that were you saying because I thought you were still staying on the 28th which really is the same day right? Do you want it to be heard earlier on a different date Loretta? Or do you like originally we originally we had talked about having a date to discuss the contract, the agreement as sort of a threshold review for the commission to understand what the arrangement is. You know I don't comfortable having it be part of their application because honestly if we have a separate I guess it's just to to train us is that what it is it's not to react right? Well I think it's the setup is so different from the others that we've seen that so much of the underground responsibility will be on Caesars compared to the other brick and mortars. I understand. Yeah just to distill kind of I think in Loretta please jump in if I'm off on this the ultimate question will be how Caesars is treated are they treated as a vendor or are they treated as a qualifier? I think you've already made that determination. We you know we decided in you know discussions with with the chair is over in her oversight capacity that we would go with the highest level of review for Caesars the qualifier level rather than the vendor level which also frees us up to treat Caesars vendors the way we treat other operator vendors. So we are giving the higher level peelback into the Caesars group of qualifiers. And Loretta you really made that determination based on the issue of control. I'm sorry based on what? I made an issue of control because just as absolutely yeah so does that help at all or do we need do we need to go through the contract with the terms of the contract with Loretta? I think you're going to want to see the terms of the contract. I think they're different enough from what you've seen with the other operators that you're going to want to see them and feel comfortable with the terms of the contract. Okay so now the question is can we do it in the midst of the assessment? Commissioner Maynard? I think I'm very comfortable just doing it as a part A part B of the same day but actually making a part of the same same day and same conversation but I'm happy to make it a part A part B. Do you mean at start in the morning with Loretta first and then go into the presentation second? That would work with me. Okay. So we need to push back at the presentation. Maybe we start earlier nine with IEP going through the contract. Commissioner Skinner what do you think about that? Commissioner Hill what do you think about that? I'm okay with that. I'm good with that as long as Loretta's good with that. I think Loretta's saying she's good with it. That makes sense. Commissioner Bryan you're good with that. The nine o'clock start might be a little tricky for me that day but I guess I could start on the phone if Loretta's gonna hop on at nine. That's a look for everybody else Trudy. I'm worried that we will house everybody's full day. Maybe I should ask it that way. Or the 28th? Yeah does anybody have an end of the day stop? So I just have we have another family member that we have to take care of post surgery so it's unclear to me whether I'm gonna have stuff in the afternoon. So I just may need to go on the phone at some point later in the afternoon that day. So right now the hold is nine thirty to four which I can make work. Anything around that I'd probably be on the phone for anything beyond those times. But through four you're okay Commissioner Bryan? I should be okay through four. Yes okay. Alrighty and I'm okay as well on that date. Okay works for me. It works for me I have a hard stop however at five o'clock. Well we've got one that it's that trumps you we've got a four. So I want to I want to definitely look right in on that. Trudy do we have a let's look for another day to try to get this contract reviewed in advance of the 28th. We deserve an hour and a half if we can find time and commissioners we'll just schedule a separate public meeting on it. So I apologize I thought when we were talking about a part A and part B we were talking about starting the part A on the 28th. Right my concern is I'm looking for an alternative because I don't want to run out of time for the actual assessment. I'm just not sure that our team can have that memo prepared. We've been working with the date of the 28th to have the memo prepared we do you know have a draft of it but it's only an initial draft. I'm sorry are we not talking about the 20 days. Well I just I thought we were talking about yes you know what I was trying to do commissioner Skinner was I was just trying to find another day in advance of the 28th so that we would have a little bit more flexibility and not feel cramped on the 28th. I mean now and I'm from director lilios that she's not she can't do anything else on but the 28th. So we're going to do Commissioner O'Brien has a 930 start if we could even get a half an hour is that hard for you to know. So right now it's 930 which which is fine. I could start a nine I'd just be on the phone for that. Let's do 930 we'll catch that half an hour wherever we can and we'll go to four. All right commissioner Skinner how are you going to help here. I'm not sure what is happening here on it. Okay I'll make it very clear but 28th it's a 930 to four on the 28th. Director lilios will start with a review of par a thank you commissioner Maynard with the review of the contract. After she's complete we are going to launch right into the assessment of the application the category two application from Rainer and they'll start with their presentation. And they'll we'll have the background. I don't think we can change the terms of the contract. I think director lilios just feels it would be helpful for us to go through the contract and then we'll go right into four o'clock. We don't have to worry about the five o'clock hard stop because I'm hearing commissioner Brian that she really needs to finish up life before that day. Should we need another time we'll have to find more different. Is that helpful commissioner Skinner. It is helpful. We're talking about the 28th not the 27th. The 27th is a day for the regs that we have held. I understand that when we went through the scheduling earlier I assumed we were talking about the 28th as others did. So commissioner O'Brien you have a hard stop at four on the 28th. So I would have to go on the phone probably after four o'clock. Okay. So I have a hard stop if you are going to participate by phone on the 28th. I have a hard stop at five. We've noted it but we're not going to I think I'd like to not have her have to go on the phone unnecessarily because she has a medical issue. So I would like to unless commissioner O'Brien said you know what that's taken care of then we won't finish it for and I acknowledge that you have a five hard stop. We will never go beyond five o'clock ever. Okay. You have in the past which is why I need to know. No no for you I won't go past five o'clock for you because I noted it that we all know that you have a five o'clock hard stop. We've got it. Great. That's why I shared it chair. Yes. Okay. All right. So let's continue. We've got the 28th done for Raynam. We have April 6 next Karen. All set. And Judy I know that you are making notes on all of the all of the scheduling. Thank you very much. Anything in between the 28th and the six Karen that you and I missed. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So on April 6 right now we have an administrative review. We've got minute meetings. We have regulations but no particular ones. Caitlin you think we'll have any on that day? We are not anticipating any regulations on April 6. Okay. Do we have we'll have the that I know that when you're waiting for Mr. Umbrella is he going to be prepared for April 6 because we would like to hand to that if that works for him. Yes. Yeah. He'll be ready and I'm just need to check with Todd and see if that still works for the legal department. Yes. I think we should plan on moving forward that day. Okay. So we'll keep it on for the six until unless we hear otherwise from Mr. Umbrella.  How are you doing on that? That's fine. So I didn't reach out to and she sent me the form. I'll have that done. Is there a due date? The commissioner would like to give me for that. I'll have it done by that day. It will take us a little bit of time. Go ahead. Commissioner Skinner. I'm not available on the sixth so I'm prepared to have that meeting proceed without me if you have a forum. However, I would like that particular item to be postponed. Yeah. So I was supposed to be not available at all. Now I have something I can join the meeting probably a little bit late. But I was actually just wondering if that was enough time to give it the consideration it was due given what we're facing on the 28th for review and going in. I just don't want to give short trip to Karen's. And now I'm here commissioner Skinner's request too. So I'm wondering if we should bump that out a week. Okay, we'll put it on for April 11th. Does that work for everyone? That works for me. Thank you. That's probably about it. I mean April 11th is the meeting. I don't know if you wanted that. It should be noted as an adjudicatory. That is not that we just didn't happen to change that can sign. I think that's so that's not a good date. So it would be April 6th. It's the April 13th one week later. Yeah. Karen in terms of answer in the answer to your question in terms in terms of the due date. What worked for you? And what is today? Karen, I think that's going to work for you. Fine, right? Because you're going to do the review and then submit it to us for the executive. I think Commissioner Skinner is concerned that you won't be ready for the annual review. I'm trying to assist her with an answer to your question. She's looking for a date from us as to when our portion would be due. So that's four weeks away. Why don't I get him done by the 29th and that gives me two weeks and you all do it. That's and that's my memory we had about that last year because then we can get it back at least a week prior so that if Karen wants to have one-on-ones with any of us, she has the opportunity to do that before we discuss publicly. That was the process last time. So the commissioners would submit the their oh, Karen would submit her self assessment to me. Then I would distribute it to the commissioners. You'll have a chance to review it and then you'll respond back to me and then set up the one-on-ones. Karen, does that work for you? Yeah. Okay. Great. Loretta, did we miss something that needs to come up earlier on the 23rd? That's right, Chair. Thank you. We do have to update the commission on a civil administrative penalty matter. I'd be looking to put that on the calendar on the agenda for, you know, 10, 15 minutes. Yep. Okay. Commissioners, do you have any questions for Loretta on that or are we all set to move on? Okay. April, we're taking item April 6th off. I'm wondering if we should, that's too late for the research agenda. We need to add another date to Karen. We've got to find another meeting date. I know that you don't really like the idea of another meeting, but we're going to have to, in order to get some of that stuff done. So, Trudy, I'm going to ask that you find some time for us before the 31st and we'll need it for the agenda setting. I'm wondering, right now, I'm going to ask about what other matters need to be ready for April 6th because it would be very light. Otherwise, maybe we reclaim April 6th and get a March date. So, Trudy, we'll continue if you could just see if there's any time you can find. Before March 31st. Yeah, thank you. So, and I'm just going to keep on going about Trudy's looks at our schedule. April 11th, as mentioned, is really not a public meeting. It will be a public meeting publicly held, a judicatory hearing, that we have no problem putting that on our agenda setting notes, but we'll just make sure to always mark it as a judicatory so everyone understands. And I'm assuming Director Lillios and Todd, you're all set for that, for the 11th. Hearing notice to the commissioners. As soon as we can, so you can take a look at that. Madam Chair, I was looking at at my calendar for an open date in March 30th, seems to be. That's what I wonder. Thank you, Brad. I appreciate it very, very much. Very, I don't know how that is for everybody else. I'm open on the 30th. Very helpful, Brad. Thank you. Judy, how's that look? 22nd. No, the 30th. The 30th. The 30th. Sorry. Oh, the 30th. Looks good. Let's put a hold on whatever time we can get for the 30th and take care of. I want to give Director Vandalinen proper time. And then we've got these other matters. For my sake, it's open pretty much all day. Commissioner, it's how's that look for you? Do you have any conflicts? I'm good. Excellent. So, Trudy, just look it and then we can carve it out. Hopefully make it a shorter meeting ultimately, but let's right now reserve that time. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. April 13th. We'll go back to April 6th. Team, do you have any items that need to be heard on April 6th? And Dr. Lightbaum, when is the date that we have to put in our calendars for opening day? April 10th. Yeah, that's right. Monday, April 10th, four o'clock post time for opening day of racing at Plain Ridge. Yeah. Thank you. Trudy, you can note that too. If you need, if you could maybe send that information to Trudy, that would be really helpful to balance. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Yeah, okay. I'm sure it's like to go to that. Trudy and team members too. So, besides our update, the possible minutes, I don't know, Trudy, if she has the date now, that's okay. Penny, we don't think we'll have regs, the escrow that are possibly. Otherwise, we wouldn't have items unless the team has something. Okay. We'll keep it on our calendars in the case. I know that Commissioner Skinner is not available that day. Okay. April 11th. All right, the reach will make sure everybody gets the information necessary on that. And then April 13th. We have right now the only additional item we have besides Karen's evaluation to be the racing application reg review. I don't know how you are in terms of that. That's with respect to that one element that Commissioner Bryan's brought up. Oh, there we go. Director Van, will we be ready for that racing, you think? Are you going to try to be Commissioner Bryan? I'm 13. Our plan is to be ready for the 13th for that item. Okay, great. Mark. Yes. So I think that we will be prepared to add public safety study the Encore Boston Harbor Public Safety Report for planning, tentatively planning, meeting with Everett in surrounding community police chiefs and their staff for the first week of April to share the report with them. So this seems like it would be good time. Okay. And you're okay with that Commissioner Bryan? You're in coordination with her. Okay, excellent. Commissioner Bryan, we haven't set the exact date. That first week of April I'm in communication with Chief Maisie staff that will certainly make sure that we're coordinate that with your calendar. Team, we'll start going through under review. Is there any item before we go to under review for April 13th? Joe, I've been waiting to hear from you all day. I said to Karen, we haven't heard about the community irrigation calendar. And I know you've got Encore Boston Harbor in your mind too. Yeah, nothing for the 13th though at this point. Okay. So I'll turn to you next then. And then we'll go through under review. Do you have anything that? Yeah, I just have under review items at this point. Okay. So the category two sports wagering application review we're going to take number 24 off because that's now on our calendar. 25 Encore Broadway expansion. So I sent you all a memo yesterday on sort of the next steps that we need to go through. And I think we've talked about this at some length about doing a public hearing and then a public meeting. But what I am hoping to do is set up some two by two meetings with the commissioners to get some input on what we want that public meeting to look like and schedule and so on. I'm thinking a public hearing maybe sometime in the first couple of weeks in April and then a public meeting towards the end of the month would probably work. I don't I know there's still an awful lot going on with regulations and so on. We do have some time to deal with this. So but I think we probably want to have the public hearing as a separate and distinct meeting because it's we want to give people a time certain that they can come in and give their opinions and so on. And I think that's the way we did it previously. You know, so I guess I'll check with Trudy and see what kind what a schedule looks like and we need to then discuss who we want to invite to this. And there's a whole bunch of logistics that we need to deal with. But I think that's where we are at this point. Can you work with Trudy to find a good date that will work for stakeholders and commissioners of the public hearing, please? Commissioners, do you agree with that approach? Okay, I'm seeing no nose. Madam Chair, just clarification with the hearing be out there. You never. We hadn't really discussed that. I mean, I think the thought was that we would do it virtually like we did the last one. You know, a year ago when we looked at the project, we certainly could do it in person if we wanted to. I think it's probably more convenient for a lot of the surrounding communities and folks to actually do it virtually than to come over to Everett. But you know, commissioners choice on how you want to do that. I think this is an important issue and I think it should be in person at the City Hall or something like that. But that's just one person's opinion Well, Commissioner Hill, I think I'm hearing you because of course we did get some input some of the neighbors that they didn't feel heard. Yeah. So is that what you've got on your mind? It is. Michelle Bryan. So the last time we were going to do this, I believe you and Commissioner Hill were going to be live and in person out in Western Mass. Is it Palmer, Crystal? And then there was also a remote option. So my only concern would be people that are so used to remote expecting to have that option as well. Is there a way to do both or do we do two separate meetings? One in person and another for people that come in remote. Can you tell me about Palmer? Do you remember it? Was it Sturbert's Palmer, Crystal? Was it? You're correct. It was out. It was out in It didn't end up happening but yeah. We were preparing for it. It was all set up and then it ended up not needing to happen. The town meeting didn't get the two-third vote it needed. Right. That's what it was for. But we did have of course the live one in Hardwick and that was well attended. Yes. So we've got that model in mind. I think what I would recommend is you could reach out to the City of Everett because I believe they I think they do their meetings live but I think it is also virtual. So they may have a something early set up for us. And I would assume that if if we wanted to do something in person that it would probably be a night meeting. That's what we did in Hardwick. It was an evening meeting. You know because if we have just you know interested citizens you know trying to pull them out during the middle of the day doesn't seem like a reasonable type of thing to do. And Joe that's what I think probably I don't want to speak for you former representative tell but I think that's what you have in mind is that the community members who may not be able to get to a Zoom meeting in the middle of the day might want a live meetings that we're thinking Brad. Yeah and I think when we were in Hardwick didn't we start like at five o'clock or four thirty. Was it that I can't remember to tell you the truth it feels like it might have been. And it went for about three hours or more. That part I remember. I don't remember the start date was a start time. Yeah I think we'd want a book at least sort of two to three hours. I would think. Yeah. So I hear that the value of live. I hear the value of virtual. What do we want to do. Commissioner Hill has made a recommendation. I think Joe you would. You know also appreciate the ease of Zoom. Commissioner O'Brien. Commissioner Boehner. Commissioner Skinner. Yeah I would just want there to also be a virtual option. So whether it's distinct and there's a live and then we do some you know short where somebody who couldn't make it to that does virtual. If we can do it all at once that's great. But I would think we'd want to make the virtual option available for people given the climate. I'd go the same way. I always love them person but that's the beauty of hybrid. And we've made hybrid work. Commissioner O'Brien's gone multiple times already and it is 2023. So I would now I think. Well I'll reach out to the mayor's chief of staff and see what you know what arrangements they have there and what what we could possibly do. And I'll work with Trudy to find out you know a good time you know if we're doing it in the evening. I'm assuming that schedules are quite as tight as they are right currently during the daytime. But well unfortunately for me because of my kids that's not always the case. So let me look at the spring calendar. And I can I can because practices kick in in April. So let me get you the dates that are the the better ones for me. Obviously if I can't make it I can't make it. I can aren't those kids you are driving yet. I will rule the day probably but thank you madam chair. All right. And commissioners just help Trudy and and Chief Delaney on that. And so what I think it it would not be if if a in a live opportunity is available. I think I'm I'm here I'm in agreement with Commissioner Hill and to the extent that that can include those individuals who said you don't feel heard my encore. And so we would want to get that messaging out really clearly. I think that was in connection with some research. Mark so we can look back about think about how we can reach out to the community and make sure that they are heard already. So we'll go down the list on review and community mitigation on my mind. The island you still want under review or still under review on that. Yeah. Okay. And then we've got Mark's item number 27 scheduled. 28 Patron license and survey before. Yes, we'll keep that one under review right now. I should be in the next meeting or so able to give you a date. I'll be very interesting. Okay. A different item. Joe. Your VHTA compliance update. Yeah. So I talked with Commissioner Skinner about this at some length. And I think what we want to do initially is you know this goes back to some of the issues that came up back I think in late December with MGM Springfield. And I think what we would like to do is get an update from them at their next quarterly report which we're getting close to the end of the month. So you know we'll be having them in some time during April and I can give them you know a briefing on what it is that we'd like to see. But this does go a bit beyond that and I have some meetings that are set up with in fact all of our licensees to you know to look at not just host community agreements and surrounded community agreements but also section 61 findings and a bunch of other things that have been you know affected by COVID and other things and you know trying to get everybody sort of back on track to where they were pre-pandemic and you know keep all of that moving forward. I've also asked if we could take a look Karen sort of compliance in the past that would be I know that's on your list to do to the extent we can look back at the statute at least the very least the statutorily required diversity numbers kind of an internal audit. Yeah we're working on that process as well. Thanks. I'll connect it. Thank you so much. Another research project Mark this one also very interesting. Springfield community. I'm thinking let's keep it on review. It's it is in its last round of review. I think I would be comfortable assigning it at date in April but I want to check with Bonnie and our review team to make sure we're set. Right okay. And the same of the diversity study. Right you know this this one I would be fine if we wanted to remove it until the summer of this you will see it will be presented as part of our FY 24 research agenda. Yeah and the plan has always been that we wouldn't launch this study until after the sports wagering industry had a chance to settle a settle a Okay. We'll take that out for now then. 80 W regs. Keep it under review. Keep it under review for now. Yeah. But I would think end of April or May we can probably know whether this is a proposed reg issue or more an audit issue. Well, there's band and team and Dr. Lightman I'm interested in this one number 33. How are we doing on that? So we have a meeting scheduled later this afternoon so a lot more information up to that. But you think that we're going to be able to address that? I'm wondering what meeting we can get it into. Maybe it's on that 30th that we just added you know we found time for those other I think we should plan on the 30th for points the research agenda better any other racing items that might be in the sense I don't think Alex has got any but it is another opportunity. Something that's similar to this request but it's not identical. Fanduel has asked to be able to have a direct link from Fanduel racing which is already an account wagering provider through Suffolk as a vendor to have a direct link with a Fanduel racing within the Fanduel sports book. Yeah that's why yeah these interconnectivity here between racing and sports racing surprising Karen I think we need to get some clarity about what our statute allows and doesn't allow. So could we have the item that's on number 33 and the Fanduel item address to put that on the 30th? Yeah everything before we know it okay all right independent monitor I guess we're just keeping that under review I mean it's not time for them to do their report I don't even know if I really like it under under review I might just take it off me. Compliance committee and the succession of officers and positions that's been something that you've kept on under your watch Michelle? Yes I'm wondering we probably have a meeting that last week in April so I think putting succession of officers and positions in a discussion of compliance committee on for maybe that last stage in April would be timely because I think the votes come up in May I want to show everybody understands there is a committee that is that is sort of a subcommittee that's organized by us there are implications in the open meeting not so probably Todd you'll want to be thinking about that in coordination that I'm right and it could be that that's tabled ultimately for not but I do think probably end of April for 36 just because I think we have the elections coming up in May so that okay so it would be for the last meeting is in April on an office I don't think we have a date yet but well the last the 8th the 27th is there one on the 27th yeah that would be the last yeah that'd be the last date I think because the week before school vacation week so I assume the 27th would be the date but when we probably should put lease update Karen it's feeling like we need to do that yep so sometime in in April when it works for Mary Ann and you and then 38 we just noted that Karen and I because yesterday we did have two of Judicatory hearings and deliberations and I have I think it's probably helpful as we have more and more Judicatory hearings to include them in our notes but we'll just make it very clear that they're different in public meetings okay other items for under review and then any questions for commissioners that from commissioners Dr. Leica I'd like to put under review the recognition of the jockey guild as the group that represents the jockeys that will set in motion the ability to pay the $65,000 to them that's part of the statute if the commission chooses to and I can send that wording on to Karen and Trudy for the thanks Alex Denda which date for that I'm sorry I'll just send the wording on to them right now I don't have a date the jockey guild has to look over the requirements and make sure that the requirements still fit the their needs is there a deadline but I just wanted to get it on the agenda planning but okay and then you'll just keep turns anything else for under review or any of the meetings including the commissioners Carrie will you no that's what I saw her anything else okay commissioners do you have anything else that you need to add you just want to acknowledge that last Friday I want to commend Mark and and Mills for your immediate action we did have an incident at work and it was because of your good hearts and good minds that we were able to address the emergency in a way that I know Karen and I are terribly thankful we want to just express our gratitude you showed phenomenal leadership and and we thank you very very much okay with that I need a motion to adjourn thank you thank you any discussion okay we're going to reconvene we're scheduled for 1130 commissioners do you need more time it's five minutes do you want to just start at 10 are you okay with starting right at 1130 sharp 1130 1130 is fine okay let's start 1130 um Mr. O'Brien hi Mr. Hill hi Mr. Skinner hi Mr. Maynard and I vote yes thanks for everyone I appreciate everyone's efforts nice to see you Katrina


Hi, this is Dave Vellante. We're back. We're here at SAP Week at EMC, 42 Cell Street in Hoppington, Massachusetts. This is theCUBE where we try to extract the signal from the noise, bring you the best guests that we can find. Andy Citizen is here. I've known Andy for several years now.  Andy, you're very well connected and this is really your event. You're running a series of these SAP events. You must be thrilled that you can get 200 customers in collaborating, talking about SAP, talking about virtualization, EMC, business value. How do you feel? Yeah, I mean, it's been a great week. Let me give you a little history. We started about five years ago out west coast, you know, Palo Alto, Santa Clara, where Cisco was, VMware was, VC, SAP were, we were all out there. And how we started was virtualization and no one was doing it yet. So we started a little lab, put some things together in the executive briefing center out there and my group said, hey, let's start bringing customers around, let's do some collaboration around this. And before you know it, we got things like VBlock coming out. We've got, you know, thousands of customers virtualizing now. We're into the private cloud. We're into, you know, all sorts of hybrid cloud opportunities. Hannah's shown up on the footprint. So this thing has grown over the years. Our event in Santa Clara just a few months ago was our biggest event yet, except this week is actually our biggest SAP week by about two X. And it's not only the biggest SAP week, it's actually the biggest EBC event in history of EMC. You guys have been tweeting all week. I've seen how many tweets around the record there. Yeah, yeah, well, we're making a big deal out of it. It's good. You know, when you have this many customers coming, right around 200, they'll walk through the door in three days, it's not about any individual presentation or any expert. It's about having 15 or 20 experts. It's about having so many customers sharing in the experience. And one thing we do is we don't allow presentations to overrule the activity. And the genders are owned by the customer. The whiteboards have to be used. And our speakers come in and talk about their business. They don't talk about the marketing slides. They come in and talk about their business, how they're engaging with the customers. So what's the conversation like inside the amphitheater? Well, you know what, it's as much for us as anybody. Because if I can sit down with SAP and Cisco in the same room with a customer, and they tell us to do three things, six months from now, that might be our best offering, our best product, our best solution for a customer. So a lot of this is really taking guys that have had 20 years experience, some from Waldorf, some from Palo Alto, sitting with a customer. This worked a couple deployments themselves in getting around that and talking about, okay, what's next? How's things evolving? Do I do this now? Do I do that now? And taking their requirements and applying the generalities. What are the things they're telling you that would... So they're obviously happy. You have 200 customers here. I mean, that's impressive. SAP's here, you got a lot of your executives here. What do they want to see next? What's on your to-do list that customers are telling you? Well, there's the boring in the new, right? The boring is, customers still want to virtualize. They want to talk about private cloud. I say it's boring because we've gotten there. We've gotten over that wave. I was saying a minute ago, riding our own wave internally. We've got a great story at EMC IT. We have a lot of customers that have done it. So many of these customers are allowing them to say, hey, I want my benefits too, right? So they're trying to figure out how do you do that? And in different flavors and different dosing, we have one customer came in, and I'm going to public cloud my whole new Greenfield deployment. Because we don't want to be in the IT business. So it's every range in that. The more interesting provocative is the whole Han area, right? And what part of that do I do now? Do I build my use cases? Do I build out my production environments? And some customers are in the, how do I use it? And some of the customers are in, I'm ready to go to the data center. How do I make sure it runs? How do I deal with the risk associated with this new platform? So you mentioned one customer putting their Greenfield apps in the public cloud. You're seeing that a lot more. We've got a number of clients in the Wikibon community, mid-sized customers that are doing that, and small customers, still selective on large, particularly with Amazon's big push into the enterprise, and you're seeing a lot of test and dev with Amazon. You're obviously seeing them come into your space, guns ablaze, and what are you seeing with that trend, with the Amazon effect, and how are your clients and how is EMC responding? That's a great point, and I would tell you, this one customer is not using Amazon, but a similar partner for their, what I'll call Sandbox and Test Dev. And what we took them through was our velocity program. They want to run it in Germany. They want to have platinum service. They want to possibly run as a service or possibly host part of it. We took them through all our partners that do run in Germany, have platinum programs with us that run SAP, that have it as a service, have it in different flavors. And we have 120 customer partners in that velocity program now. Many of them run SAP. So we have offerings to provide them. Now I will tell you, we have many customers that choose for agility to provision on various clouds today, but when it comes to going time to go to production, most of those companies come back and say, look, okay, now I got to get serious about this. And not only is it a risk thing, but you look at some of those cloud offerings, they're pretty doggone expensive when you put a lot of terabytes on them. So sometimes self-provisioning and working with the traditional providers, service providers and such, actually comes up with a better economical model for our customers. Well, renting is often more and most typically more expensive than owning, but there's a flexibility aspect. So you're saying you're competing with Amazon, essentially through an ecosystem approach. You mentioned your velocity partners. Can they move as fast as Amazon? Can you move as fast as Amazon? That's a great question. So I won't go through all the names, but we have all the change agents, the SIs that we work with, and we have all the SAP partners. And yes, some of these customers, these partners have developed programs that they can roll it out in three, five, 10 weeks for our customers. And what's interesting here is it's not just that we're selling together. It's that we're at the whiteboard. We're at the engineering rooms and labs together and we're building run books. We're making sure that they have better, more flexible and more consumable offerings, which is ultimately about agility. But we go back to a traditional model of helping customers. You think about anybody in the business that's done more to reduce the cost of storage for our customers, it's us. We've spent 20 years doing that. Every year we're getting a better price for them. Obviously, data grows. It works in our favor. We're going to keep hammering you though. They're never satisfied. But we spent a lot of time, think about deduplication, think about all that EMC does to create technology to reduce storage. We're bringing that to the table in the new economy. Yeah, the storage business has a pretty good track record of keeping prices down. But as I say, it's never-ending. Andy, citizen, thanks very much for coming on. I appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you for coming. All right, everybody, this is Dave Vellante. Keep it right there. We'll be right back from 42 South Street in Hopkinson, Massachusetts.