Okay, so It's seven o'clock in the call the meeting to order we have two other minutes that we can do tonight Meeting minutes for December 12th 2017 we have a forum of the folks that were here at that meeting so it's your emotion Move the minutes be accepted subject to modification second second and second page one Likewise as of last week on members present Ted's first name is spelled wrong. It's not 10. That's Ted Hey, I kind of like 10 I should ring to it Identified as red Kenny in a sports thing Red skeleton, you know, that's a good solid page two One thing on page two under number five the first paragraph the first sentence talks about You know the Champlain housing trust explained the grant application for the seven point eight million dollar project And then in the second sentence it says Williston will be asked to be a sponsor for the grant application So my only concern is I'm a little worried that The grant application might be confused with the seven point eight million dollar project So I'm wondering if that should be clarified. Does that make sense? Yeah So the grant application is for less than right total amount right and and I wondered if maybe instead of that I should say for it one one applicant and So the new Competitive talent plan does encourage us to have energy coordinator. I guess my first question is is I am Still a little bit confused isn't meant to mean I'm against it, please, but I'm still a little bit confused about how the energy coordinator position which is an appointed position will interact With what the role will be and how it will interact with either town staff or Other boards or commissions or the town comprehensive plan Does that make sense? I Had the same question Personally what I would be doing is I guess I'd be partly guided by Whoever is appointed assuming it's mr. Forrest and mr. Forrest on his various initiatives that he wants to pursue and Then I would assign a staff person most likely Eric Wells to work with him if he has a proposal to Develop it and bring it to the board for the board's consideration and I Guess that's how I would envision it, but it's new territory And it's a it's a little bit different than working with a full board, but there are some similarities as well okay So the concept might or part of the concept might be he would identify potential projects potential things the town should be looking at or Investigating maybe even doing some of the investigation him or herself For example, he might say well, you know, I think the town should adopt some regulations that tighten up on building code or something We don't have a building code, but Something like that that has certain requirements for energy Efficiency and so they may say, you know, we want to pursue this and he may do a little bit of the homework So I'm I may turn over to Eric and say okay work with them to develop this a little bit more And then we'll take it to the select board to see if they want to consider it as a regulation And if they do then we go through the normal process like we do with an ordinance for example my last question is is do you see there being Any do you see there being problems if there is Differences in opinion between what the energy quarter might be advocating for for instance the reduction of use of fossil fuels Which makes sense, but where the town plan might encourage the use of natural gas as a relatively clean inexpensive But it nonetheless is a fossil fuel. Do you think that would be an issue? I Can't speak to that one particular matter But there certainly is potential for disagreements or differences of opinion between the energy coordinator and staff and possibly the energy coordinator and the select board Or it's possible all three may have different views on things. That's true so more than likely actually when you add a new person into the mix that you know, that's just Okay part of the process so But what I get from your answer is yeah, there might be disagreements. That's part of the process part of the game and Inherently no, that's not necessarily a bad thing or a problem And it may you know a new person in the mix also brings new ideas and may push initiatives that You know we're kind of either on the back burner for the staff or maybe not even our radar for staff at this point in time and You know It's up to the board to make a decision on whether or not wants to proceed with some of these things But these issues wouldn't necessarily even be coming to the board unless you had someone like that So, you know, that's the other side of the coin But they are an island unto themselves pretty much because they're not really working. I mean they're They are working with but they're not like you have a team of people. They're looking for guidance, right? That's correct. And they're just simply advisory in nature The board can ignore everything He or she has to say as energy coordinator or Implement everything ask you from a very practical standpoint. How much time does Eric have? To be taking on yet another project at the moment Well, it's very early in his tenure here So it's it's a little hard to say but I would say that there is some room right this point and which is why we have this this position is to Provide the ability to take on some additional project and affordable housing is another one that we haven't touched yet but That one at least there's a task force and people working with it and don't please don't get me wrong I think energy is very important. I'm just concerned about one person. That's pretty much all on their own coming up with ideas versus someone that's working with a team of people so This is just meant as an observation You we mentioned the whole concept of the energy coordinator if there were one might Have difference of opinion than the select board and orst town staff and that gets to the issue of the energy coordinator is going to come with You know, there are not agendas. It may be the right word, but you know, their philosophy what they're advocating for that type of thing and certainly Brian did a good job explaining sort of Where he's coming from I Guess my observation is we could have somebody also in the same position who might advocate from a totally different position might be more No, you know just using this as a hypothetical example We really ought to be maximizing the amount of natural gas we use because it's relatively clean burning and it's Relatively inexpensive So that just meant as an observation, I don't really know where that's going, but I guess my point is is if we were to appoint somebody When we do point somebody is to recognize we are appointing somebody who comes with that advocacy or that opinion or philosophy Whatever the right words are there something I Think they're noticed too as a potential man. It's an issue, but Something that's on the radar, you know, I think I'd be inclined to do a one-year term to see how it goes for a couple of different reasons It's it is in the It is in the town plan That we have this there is a statute Advocacy for things The ones who are elected by choice to accept that or not accept it I don't think it's gonna hurt too badly to have one more pair of eyes and hands on the issue If there is, you know, I mean they're Democracy is messy So we've we've survived how we survived this we survived the roundabout controversy Okay I make a suggestion that if the board is inclined to do one-year term It might make sense to do it one year, but through June 30th, 2019 Just because June 30 2018 is just a few months away and Okay. Oh ice. Okay. I Get you I would indeed I'd move to a point Mr. Forrest, Mr. Brian Forrest as energy coordinator for a one-year term ending June 30 Second into our discussion on motion. I like the idea There's no more discussion and all those in favor of the motion say I am I be opposed So we're taking care of that. We'll move on to the Green Mountain transit update. We have Mark Susa I hope that's how the pronunciation a general manager of Green Mountain transit and Sheep and Keener who's our representative to the Green Mountain transit board Good evening My name is Mark Susai and the general manager of Green Mountain transit I was appointed the general manager position last end of last February And I was been in the organization As you remember that was a big event in our organization So I what I'd like to do tonight is just go I have a very brief presentation just to give you kind of an idea of What's going on in Green Mountain transit some of the things I was doing And then we have another Sheet that I can hand out which will be the annual report Over that if you'd like and discuss some of the items on that I think they sent them This first slide is basically telling you pretty much what Green Mountain transit is is currently charted to do through the Vermont legislature There has been a there was a merge 2011 where Green Mountain transit Association down in Berlin and Washington County merged with Chittenden County transportation authority, which is the former name Ccta and that merge happened Again in 2011 We at the current state we have changed the name of the organization to Green Mountain transit There is a bill in the House of Representatives right now to formally change the name to Green Mountain transit authority Which will then Puts us in five counties in the state with the largest transit authority in the state with the most riders and Vehicles and I would staff We have seventy four Full-time operators excuse me seventy full-time operators and four part-time operators up in Chittenden County, and we have another 35 in the two rural areas Franklin Grand Isle and Washington County We provide Fixed route service in Chittenden County we provide demand response in Franklin Grand Isle and Washington Counties and We also provide the Medicaid in the two rural locations, but our contractor ssta A lot of Colchester provides our Medicaid transportation and END transportation here in Chittenden County Lot of acronyms So I wanted to just kind of highlight this slide One thing that I did when I came in a real whole reorganization of the GMT and Previously we had eight directors across the board and and what I try to do is I tried to streamline it to four executive leaders That I've worked that are work direct reports to me work with my staff work with me And then underneath them they is the rest of the organization with finance operations maintenance and Human resources yes human resources is kind of a IT human resources DTCs is kind of a collaboration, but it's it's under the human resources brand The other thing I do have is I have a direct report our marketing manager is a direct report to me as well When we rebranded what's important to our organization is is how we look and how when you see a Business card letterhead It's all going to be the same So one thing I really emphasize is is image and that goes along with the way our uniforms are Designed et cetera goes down right down the line So presentation professionalism is a big thing Communication have some benefit for locals for the locals that we we the communities we live in and the communities that we serve so one thing I did is I brought in and bringing in a nonprofit partner Where and and the first one we did was was the Chittenden County Canal Street Veterans Housing, which is Cots what we did is we partnered actually with channel 44 and channel 22 and kind of parked with them and Staff brought in all sorts of home goods and things like that that they could utilize within their programs They gave us a list of them our staff and then anybody else who who contributed and then the day that we did the event Anybody who bought the tickets we doubled and actually Gave Cots double the amount of tickets we sold that day for them to get the veterans to try and get transportation around the county So we did that for you. That was that was our contribution Second one we did was the Washington County Family Center. We did a diaper drive, which was kind of cool Down in Washington County was one of the things that they needed and they came to us And you know, we said what are you looking for and they said diapers just give us diapers for the kids and so staff had a really good time with that and we did again partnered with a media partner down there and Kind of gave back kind of again giving back to the community that we serve and that we that we that we live in and the last one We did was the Franklin County community Action we did a winter clothing drive and this one was kind of neat because our partner We've had labor release some problems in 2014 because the strike But we've really become real close and tight with the Union and working together And so they actually donated $500 worth of winter clothing the Teamsters did to this organization We all kind of pitched in and it was a really very successful event We we plan on doing that continually every year. We're going to hit the three areas that we serve and And that's the community partners and we do media partners and things like that So we we take our marketing money and we kind of utilize it a way that really highlights the organization Some of the organizational highlights. I started a staff volunteer program Once a quarter staff is allowed to take eight hours of time and go volunteer at a nonprofit that is approved by the organization and That no charge to their time or anything. They get to take like I said eight hours a quarter And they just take the day and go spend it helping out whichever nonprofit that's either in the community They live in but one of the communities we serve there's no there's really no restrictions on where that is So they can do it wherever they feel comfortable with so it's kind of a neat program Another thing I started was communication as I said earlier is a very Important piece to what we do as an organization as long as we're communicating with our staff and people are aware of what's going on It's probably one of the most vital I think things that we could do so we started a intranet a local intranet Which is just internal to the organization called bloom fire everybody in the organization gets an account They sign on they could look at all the documents that either HR or Any maintenance or operations that they can load up there and they can look at that from home from what their phone It's it's it's but it's local. It's an internet. It's not on internet So it's an account that they they log into and that they manage and that we have communities in there and So that's kind of one of the things that we kind of go online Look at the information that this organization puts together and and not you know have to be on the internet to do it Another thing I started was a quarterly staff meetings calm calm town hall meetings where Quarterly I get up in front of the organization and we have satellite five locations within the Five counties during the during the season of the winter season and I basically go over Something that is important to the organization or we do some type of a training But I kind of let staff know what's going on because sometimes the communication doesn't make it all the way to say our seasonal service down And so we're sugar bush. So that's on that's that's live It's a live town hall meeting and we're doing that quarterly. So everybody can log on and kind of see what's going on Now the fun stuff the funding streams This is just educational. It's quick federal grant state grants local contributions, which are the assessment passenger revenue advertising revenue and any other revenue that comes in this pie chart just gives you a breakdown of kind of Where most of our funding comes from? and the amounts and You'll see that the federal grants obviously Are a very high percentage we get different funding from the Fed federal government. We're direct recipient here in As an in the urban system in the rural system It's a it's funding through VTrans. So this gives you just a basic kind of percentage of what we get per our funding Three sources that like I told you said that we've said the CCRPC is the other planning piece of it and they provide funding for us for planning purposes Local contributions. This is basically part per our charter local contributions assessments by member communities I did actually see one of the major questions that always comes in is 88 paratransit funding and You know, what where is that number and I'll kind of show you at the end Where that is but this basically gives you the idea what the charter is is pretty much been Developed I think and I want to say 1973, but I think that's correct. I think it is. Yeah So 88 paratransit is mandated per the federal government. It's basically three quarters of a mile from the fixed route It's as the crow flies. So it's basically putting a bubble around our fixed route and basically three quarters mile We have to provide service to eligible ADA Clients It's complimentary and the origins like I said are three quarters of a mile requirements They do not apply to our commuter route. So that's always kind of a gray area for people to understand and We can either do it ourselves internally where my previous Position it was in the Hampshire and we did it internally that here in Greenmont transit SST is our is our Provider as I said earlier. So we can do it either way It might be worth noting that through the luck of the draw not because of anything the town has done our ADA Our paratransit use has gone down the last two years, which has compensated for the modest about 3% increase In the in our budget and so the assessment to Williston is flatter declining But it's we could get somebody live in Wilson who needs those services more next year and it would become part of the assessment Yeah, the again mandated service so federal government pretty much mandates We have to go through a whole process of application process to make sure people are eligible. We've done that in house now We've taken that in house It's another thing we've done where the assessments are done in house. So the So we have a little bit more of a control We we pretty much taken all the steps that we possibly can right now to you know Do the best we can to make people eligible for ADA that make sure they're eligible for ADA and any conditional service Which means they can have conditions where in the winter time there's there's no sidewalks So we have to pick them up in the winter time But in the summertime they can walk to the closest fixed route which could be right down the street so those are some of the conditional and and we we have an appeal process and and if somebody doesn't like that what their ruling was they can appeal it and we've had that and So we have everything kind of in place to make sure that we're doing our job to make sure the ADA assessments for the communities Or you know stay stay where they are and at the best of our ability The elderly and disabled program it's E&D program. They'll call it. It's through the 5310 funds applied for at 80% Care partners some of the partners that we have Barry project independence SSTA it improves mobility basically for seniors and individuals with this disabilities So it's it's a program that's funded Through the 5310 federal funds and VTrans is the one who kind of controls the funding for each E&D That Resolution before July 1st the funds are going to run out before the end of the fiscal year and we don't know what the solution is going to be Can you say we you mean Williston or the whole region the whole the whole state actually but SSTA it it does this service as Subcontracting for Green Mountain transit Green Mountain transit does the same thing in the rural areas So it's a little bit complex But that grant is being drawn down statewide at a rate faster than the funds will last And so the question is what what's going to happen and that's an open question still it hasn't it wasn't really fully funded through the state this year Some of the budges that came down from from Montpellier actually took away some funds from VTrans and Capital funding has has kind of gone away It's there, but it's nowhere near what What was projected? So a lot of decisions that are made there So that some of the some of the funds that in Chittenden County E&D program Was no it's not near what it was last year and Washington County as well So the funding came in a little bit less than anticipated so as took shape in this point Williston is a big user of that program You know, we're though. I think one of the municipalities that receives the most amount of money Maybe there's another one that receives a little bit more of it. Willston's up there being a high utilization rate and Jennifer's our representative on the committee. I don't know if you have anything to add on that Mark and his staff are working with Murray Benner and SSTA and the state to address it And we're halfway through the fiscal year. So, you know, we're trying to it right now It's projecting that we'll run out of funds. So What's the next steps after that has to be presented to the E&D committee? I think this month and then the conversation starts from the state level We've met with the state already and have kind of made them aware of this So they said go through the committee first and then we'll go from there So that's where it kind of stands and then the slide here with the ADA ridership going down I think the total assessment for Williston went down $5,400 in fiscal year 19 Paratransit as you see the ridership and one thing I want to mention about the paratransit is Where Williston's I think the paratransit went down South Burlington's could go up and and the reason to me is somebody moves from Williston to South Burlington is now utilizing the services and kind of a kind of a story about that is that We had two nuns move from one community to South Burlington utilize the service every day and If you and they're more than qualified to do that and so when they started adding those trips their percentages went up and You know that could be as simple as two people Moving to another community and so it's kind of one of these things where you know, it's You know could affect Williston if those two nuns came into town here So that's kind of why I'm just trying to make it you know the point and again mandated Depending on where they live So it's really all I had for the presentation. I know it was fairly quick But I just thought maybe I'd get you up to speed and where we are and what we're up to Any questions I Nobody on it and Frequently do we how do you keep track of your passengers on each route? Every day and for the year So we several things we are currently doing a comprehensive service analysis of our whole system. We haven't done Since 73 we've we've added service, but we've never quite looked at it as a whole In all five counties rural and urban so we're doing that at this. It's going into its Over a year now in the process. It's been a lot of data And it all the information is on our websites called the next gen And that actually we have all the ridership data. We have all the information And they they've pretty much reviewed every scenario analysis of each stop each route times fair analysis Pretty comprehensive if you go online, you'll see all the all the route Scenarios and there's has not been a final recommendation We're currently still doing some ride checks to verify. So we're actually putting staff on these buses for several days to kind of Manually add in the ride checks because some of the ride checks came through a little bit off So we're actually doing that now. We're meeting with municipalities as well So we're getting the mission the municipalities from their planning departments public works Etc. So we can get their perspective. That's what we are right now. We're in a municipal outreach So we'll be in touch to talk to who you would like for us to sit down with and kind of go through and some suggestions from them and we also have Fairbox counts so that the boardings are recorded that Disembarking is not recorded. So all we know is boardings, but you can assume an equal number of returns You The other thing too is to answer your question You do see so every now and then you'll see a bus that seems like there's nobody on it and What our system is is, you know In one route we could be doing a six and Shelburne and then the next route We could be doing the North Avenue So the buses could be going into another route that will be fairly busy. So they do the first route Which seems light and then they go to the next one Which is usually the reason we kind of move them to another the bigger buses to some of the more heavily populated And and have the higher ridership So there are times when you look and see there's nobody on there and you'll say well It doesn't make sense as a 35-foot ghillie driving on the road But then that bus either previously had gone to a very heavy route is going to a heavy route They just needed to kind of connect the two So there's a lot of that that we do in our system and overall our numbers track very well in terms of like the state Benchmarks for what is a successful route we are our urban system is in very good rates well two and a half two point four million Boardings last year system-wide the number one between Burlington here is the second most ridden and it's about 440,000 boardings last year now. That's the whole route. We don't know how many of those were in Williston or ending in Williston And I can say too as I used to commute on the bus since it came to the village There are two buses in the afternoon and the second one is often very empty But if that second bus were not there I wouldn't have been on the first one because I wouldn't have had a safety net to know if I got out of work late that I still could get home and so that second bus served a function even when it wasn't getting many passengers but we do look at all of that and Can I segue into a couple of things sure? Absolutely, so my name is Chapin caner. I'm your commissioner on the GMT board of commissioners I'm actually the chair for the second year ending in June 30th And I'm last year. I gave you a general update about GMT I'm really glad you got to meet Mark and sort of hear his style and how he manages We are basically a municipality by all the regulations and laws and and have to deal with I'd like to just highlight the Amy Brewer is my alternate since last year when you appointed her and She has been coming to most of our board meetings Which I'm the only commissioner has the alternate there as well most of the time which has been wonderful And so you have good representation, and she's also participated in the finance committee And to highlight the thing about the improved relationship with labor We have a five-year contract now that at the request of the Of the dry operators to go from a three-year to a five-year contract because they're so positive about the relationship with management and Mark is a big part of that Revenue however as tight as you know both our federal funds and our state funds have been shrinking and have become tighter The comprehensive system analysis that we are in the middle of also called the next-gen study Has some pretty harsh news for our 1v the village run. It does not have the numbers that would support maintaining that route and It's not to say it will be dropped But it is in the recommendations for that route that it not be continued I'm interested in finding alternative ways to keep service for people in the village and So I'm going to be reaching out on social media and perhaps writing an op-ed to try to stimulate some more conversation Things like what if it just ran from taff corners to the park and ride in Richmond Which we don't serve now how many people if they could get to the park and ride would make use of it And if it didn't have to go into Burlington, it would have time to do more If it stopped at half corners, and you had to transfer the number one which Wouldn't be as nice for those of us who would are commuting but might be in a compromise I also wanted to highlight that it's in your Town plan now that you recently adopted to work towards having a transit center in the taff corners area I see that as a real Significant need right now the parking lot at Walmart serves as our transfer point if you're going between the number 10 and the number 2 We may have more buses in the future. We're going to when the park and ride just build an exit 12 We'll probably pick that up And to me the parking lot at Walmart Walmart should be served But it's not the right place for a transfer and it also would be more efficient for most riders to transfer at taff corners I was Disappointed that the one piece of land that the town owns right there opposite the pond from Friendly's was leased to the Purchaser of maple tree place taking that out of being a possible place for two buses to be able to pull up But we I would really like us to keep searching for somewhere within walking distance of the majestic 10 and Taff corners in general Further to be a trans some kind of a trance on transit center I also want to highlight that we did purchase new buses this year in spite of funds being tight Which was a very important and with the cold weather we just had it was a lifesaver because several of the older buses had to be taken off the road Due to problems with the temperature We also have a low-no grant and within the next year should be getting four electric battery electric buses which at least for us sort of a pilot in Understanding the additional the different maintenance and operational procedures and Aspects to that to know how to view that in the future And that it took away my thunder. Oh no Now I was going to bring it up I was going to bring up the electric buses because one thing that we We did is we we got approved for a low-no grant Which is low emission no emission grants through the federal government and we were approved for two buses with that We have a collaboration between Burlington electric department veic Burlington electric another sustainability division V light when all of these Came together we put them in our application. We thought we had a very compelling Argument that say hey, we're coordinating with our electric there our utility company That's going to help us kind of bridge the gap between Traditional diesel price and a electric bus which is about 200,000 more And v trans has agreed had agreed to pay for the original price of the original diesel price So we had to go out and try to figure out a way to do it and honestly through the Through the creativity of funding with our staff and all the other partners We were able to draw down more federal funds to get four buses So those four buses the that will be on the street hopefully within I would I would love to have them in the spring, but it looks like we're going to push that back To get them on the road and then there's really a lot of data that we're going to collect and we're going to We're going to take the diesel buses. We just received We're going to take the electric buses We're going to do comparisons as much as you can And try to figure out what that number looks like and what your return on investment is and all of those factors So in the future, if the vw settlement comes through which I just read somebody just told me that it's going to the legislature to Through the Vermont digger. I was advised of that today But if that comes through and we are able to buy more electric buses We will then have enough information and data to kind of justify And and and kind of show that that makes sense to do it a lot of things we have to worry about Is how many hours going to be on the road? How many you know, how much of the battery life? How long would it last there's all a lot of there's a lot of questions And the the the technology has taken off in three years. I would have said if you asked me three years ago I would have said 10 years But now just looking at how many agencies are utilizing them now And even in cold weather. So so we're pretty excited about that So that will be something that will be really monitoring I guess in the next 2019 and next year We're we're able to we'll be able to secure about 20 new buses the 12 that are coming in Or 19 the four that feel electric and then we'll have another three That have v-chance has committed to In 19 2019 through that 2020 So that would be very helpful for us But the electric bus is pretty exciting for us to really figure we will be the first in Vermont to have These are fully a hundred percent Electric the agreement has to be to have to be charged at Off-peak time from 10 o'clock at night to four in the morning in our facility in Burlington And it gives us the rate of half the rate that if it was 16 kilowatts and I would get charged eight So that's an agreement we made with Burlington Electric. So it's pretty exciting. So Questions from the board First full this full disclosure I am a frequent rider of the 86 link bus from the park and ride to Montpelier Terry your question or comment about empty buses rarely is an 86 bus empty except maybe on a friday night the last bus leaving Leaving well, I work at the national life complex leaving national life But I want a very much second Chapin's comment about The concept of that backup, whatever the right word is bus Somebody who's worked quite often means I don't know if I can catch an earlier bus having that bus is a godsend My one constructive Absolutely comment criticism. If you don't mind is the route shout 2.0 I think I can speak for multiple riders on the 86 bus is the lack of the 86 bus being on that app Is is frustrated The other night, well, maybe a week or two now ago when we had some bad weather the bus was quite late That's totally understandable. Let me get that But what would have been really nice is if the app worked Because that hour and a half that we all sat sat around wondering when the heck is the bus going to be here? And we don't want to miss it because we're pretty sure it's going to be the last one If if the app had worked we all would have headed back to our offices and did something productive Just when you needed it. Yes. Where what we ended up doing was having some great conversations Some of them frustrations about the app not working, but It just would be great if that app worked I appreciate the feedback and that's what we're getting It's it is a little inconsistent right now. We have been on the phone with route match constantly There's not only that but we also have the beacon issue that's down at the DTC Which we're told by friday of this week will be taken care of But the app itself is definitely a conversation that we've been having consistently and 86 has come up on several occasions So thank you. I appreciate that and when it works. It's wonderful. People are using it a lot. Yeah All right. Good. Thank you Other questions That's it Thank you very much. Well, thank you. I appreciate it and spend the time rick. I'll be in touch about the staff We'll move on then to the catamount community forest study committee report looks like melinda Is when they do that somebody else too? Oh good, okay all three would just introduce yourselves and Do us your status report, please okay, how you doing I'm ben norris and I'm the as they stated before the catamount community forest planning committee chair Oh, that's a lot of words And uh, so i'm just going to give a I kind of have a little list here of all the stuff I wanted to to talk about so the So far the committee has gotten together and met Six times We've We've received some presentations from From some some experts Some of which are on they're part of the forest committee, but Some outside as well. We heard from Ethan Tapper who is the chitland county Forester who kind of gave a overview of community forestry in general And discussed some very specific examples of other projects that have occurred and how those things have worked well and how they How maybe they have not worked well and kind of gave an overview Of how some examples of how to to put the thing together We heard from Andrea short sleeve On wildlife management and sort of like how to manage this land how to how do we How do we handle this land so that you know, we considered wildlife management? She's the private land's habitat biologist And so we heard from her on her recommendations Kate Warner from the trust for republic land or for public land Gave a review of aquavocal restrictions That sort of are going to come along with the grants That we're going to that are going to use to partially fund the project So all the rules that we'd have to be following Once once they put their money in We heard from court long and buck And we gave us kind of an overview of how the catamount outdoor family center currently runs And particularly at the understanding What are the things that they need to to continue to function? We heard from lia davison from the little bellows program And who is who their program utilizes The catamount outdoor family center currently and we kind of got an understanding of what kind of Environment that in the different facilities that they would need to to continue to function there We heard from a couple members of the autobahn society who You know kind of they a lot of people are using that that location for birding And they kind of gave an overview of what kind of bird habitat is there and What are some of the things that we could do to sort of Keep that going to make sure that the birds are protected there We've had sort of Two public outreach meetings Since we started there was a In august there was a walk-and-talk meeting at catamount and we had Over 15 people attend Kind of getting a view of the land and A lot of questions and answers In december there was an open house where we had over 30 people come to You know hear about the status of things and also to to give input to us We had Um We've we started basically, you know Reviewing the catamount community forest plan The community forest management plan We've started to really kind of go through each line of that and make sure that it's um It's it's kind of what we would We would recommend that the select board would would would do Um I think that you know that's really going to be the uh focus Of the committee and over the next few months is really um is looking at that we We've made a couple of attempts to vote on some key issues and then actually decided that we weren't quite ready I think that um As we kind of we tried to uh say okay. Well, how do we all feel about Key issues and then we realized that we needed some more time to keep keep talking about it. So yeah, I mean specifically related to incorporating multiple recreational uses on the property Just based on some of the public input the committee has gotten um that around um allowing dogs You know potentially permitting hunting Um Some people were interested in a disc golf course. Some other people were interested in ice skating on the pond um and just You know sort of also hashing out um policies around pedestrian use and how best to accommodate um the Free pedestrian access that will be required um from our grant sources And making sure that it's compatible with the other uses on the property Like mountain biking and skiing and whatnot But some of those decisions are going to be harder to make than others and the committee has has done well in sort of um Getting making decisions on the low-hanging fruit. Um, some the somewhat easier decisions, but is is uh Having a little more Need for discussion on some of the more I don't know complicated issues But overall making very good progress. It's um The committee is very engaged. Um At I would say at all the meetings we've had 15 to 17 people in the room Including um some members of the public have come to meetings. Um, so No, I think I don't I'm good. Did we did we give this uh the Uh the committee um took a first look at the um license agreement which is still um under negotiation Uh, and when that is edamore um I don't know ready state From your completion We will be asking um you to look at that as well Looks likely that'll be sometime next month. Yeah early next month. Hopefully It was one of the questions for the committee members I might have a couple um So maybe I'll ask um I have in front of me the uh four study committee, you know the charge that was put together And I always felt you have a very uh aggressive Time schedule time frame to get this completed with and I'm looking at Final revisions to plan dated june 30 of 2018 Like five months from now Do you think you'll be able to um Meet that deadline? I think so. Um, I think that there may be some Decisions on which the group can't reach reach consensus and in that case Will have to make a statement that basically says, you know, this will not be allowed until such a time As uh, you know a plan has been thoroughly vetted and You know discussed and In the same way that that would happen Okay, and then as you're going through your your discussion You mentioned the concept of the I'm going to call them the free You know the public access the walking the birding Maybe you know things like um Dogs or whatever and then the um Activities that would be on a fee basis. I assume Through the non-profit which I you know, whoever that non-profit is And I guess my question is is is there a Prioritization over the public access to the land type uses versus the for free specialized Let's say recreation activities like mountain biking and um on Nordic skiing um I I guess I'm I I don't really I don't really understand. It's just Is it could I um, I think that uh What we're Like say for example, like some somebody wants to ride a horse, right? And uh, and so The question is it's like well, do we allow access for people to ride a horse and then What what what the group is kind of grappling with is whether or not um, well if a riding if if like six people riding a horse The whole year it's that going to is that going to be a problem for everybody that was riding a bike um, so it's kind of trying to find that balance and then in terms of like public use versus like Whether you have to pay to use it then I think that you'll be coming into whether or not the Like so if the license agreement kind of gives charge to the to the catamount outdoor family center to have um to to make enough money to stay solvent Then like every time we allow access to it For for free then we have to look at where it where is the revenue stream coming to support say some other activities that We would want to keep there. So um and just to clarify I mean So we're required to provide free public access and what that means is um It had pedestrians have to be allowed on the property at no charge And so the what the committee is trying to Hash out is where can those can that type of activity take place and You know not conflict with other types of activities like a mountain biking race or something like that So those are the decisions that they're looking at and um You know, I think the committee feels that The pedestrian in general the free pedestrian use is is not Really going to conflict with other uses. Um, I mean as long as There's some common sense policies like, you know, if a race is going on be aware of where that's happening and and walk on other trails um If you know if there are camps going on just be aware of your surroundings and you know be aware that those activities are taking place and Use common sense. Okay. So a way to answer my question is it I don't know if there's really there's no right or wrong answer I'm just trying to figure out where the The committee might be going Is one of the ways to deal with, you know, who has priority for lack of better words Maybe that's not even the right way to think of it is by there'll be some segregation mountain biking won't be allowed over here Because that's primarily viewed as a that's viewed as a hiking area or walking area Where over here it's mixed use where you will run into those conflicts But then the common sense aspect of it kicks in On a night where there's the weekly mountain bike training race series Expect there to be mountain bikes and you will probably have a conflict of with a mountain But not conflict. Maybe not the best word you will see you will encounter a mountain bike if you choose to walk there um, it really was what I was more aimed at is Because it's a it will be a public land owned by the town It's kind of that question of will the For fee type activities that would be done by let's say that Whoever the nonprofit ends up being have to take sort of a secondary role because of that public ownership But it's not sounding like that's the case at least how far it's gone This committee is going um, I guess the committee is I mean We still have a lot of discussions ahead, but um right now, um I mean, I guess partially based on some of the Experience that the catamount outdoor family has had with just with people walking on the land um, you know whether I mean, I'm assuming they pay a fee to walk on the land But that that there hasn't really been a conflict or any problems with people walking and other people who are biking or skiing So I guess, you know, we're not we're not really seeing it as a a zero like We're not really, you know, we're not really, um seeing uh seeing it as you know Want the four fee gains there for the the free pedestrian public access loses kind of Dang, I think that I think I understand and again, there's it's not like there's a right wrong answer I'm just trying to you know get a sense The the forestry aspect it do you see there being A role for there being active forestry On the property And not that I think that's necessarily bad at all. I'll believe me. I'm not going there. I'm actually kind of hoping there is But I don't want to get influenced you but I'm Hoping there is can you talk about the forestry potential? I mean So we have heard from the The chinton county forester on the subject and um, I think you know, he's he's encouraging us to Come up with like a plan and you know, so the um, isn't that part of his role is to help you develop that plan? well, or I think it's like Generally to come up with one like it, you know, like so like one one example of a plan might be to You know make that let's make as much money Forestry as we can and then on the other on the other side is like let's let's never let forestry get in the way of Anything else that we want to do so somewhere in between You know we in the end. I think we want to uh put put together a plan that that makes sense for uh You know, I think that's what the you know, ultimately we're you know Going to try to figure out is what what is that? Balance there somewhere there's a in in between there's the the right place Yeah, where there will be some I imagine something to make sure that You know, it stays as it like it is or maybe better in some ways and um, right now the property is um has a forest management plan. Um that will be That ethan tapper is going to help revise that plan and develop a plan that that um kind of fits with the Mission of the community forest Thank you The next on our agenda is the keeping of chicken's regulation. We have draft ordinance, but before we do that Um, would you have two people from the department of health here tonight? Dr. Natalie quit and Caleb donahue so if you'd move to the table give us a A little bit of a briefing about Yourselves introduce yourselves, um and Something some information on health concerns on racing chickens Uh, yes, I'm natalie quit. Uh, thanks for inviting me And I just wanted to uh, well, I'm the state public health veterinarian So trained in veterinary medicine, but I've worked in public health for several several years most recently with cdc on vector-borne diseases and I've been with the Vermont department of health for a few months now working on zoonotic diseases so diseases that Uh can transmit to humans from Animals, so this is my colleague. Caleb donahue. Hi. I'm Caleb donahue. I'm completing a post-grad fellowship right now at the Vermont department of health and infectious diseases as an epidemiologist so basically I just wanted to give a quick spiel of um Overview of the main diseases we might be concerned about Uh transmitting from poultry to people um four main ones I guess from most List them from most Biggest concern to lowest concern biggest concern being salmonellosis Infection with salmonella bacteria second being campylobacteriosis infection with Campylobacter de juni. It's another enteric pathogen or gi pathogen Next being avian influenza As you probably all know what that is and then I'm sure you've heard of west Nile virus as well so I'll let Actually, let me give it. I guess a little spiel on the others, but I'm going to let Kayla go into more depth on salmonellosis Because she investigated and did study on that in Vermont specifically But campylobacteriosis is another gi pathogen that mainly humans get infected by Handling undercooked or eating undercooked poultry so By having back backyard poultry Less of a risk unless there's plans to slaughter and handle, you know And process and cook that meat and maybe improper handling in the kitchen that kind of thing Um, you know the bacteria comes from their gi tract and so It's not cooked properly that bacteria will stay alive and then infect humans. So that's the main Way that we get infected. It's also present in other things like raw milk um avian influenza is A very low concern. It's more of a theoretical concern. There are sporadic outbreaks in poultry Chickens particularly in the u.s. In general These strains don't typically infect humans though, but they have the potential to Mutate and cause Illness in humans. So most human illnesses and sporadic outbreaks occur in southern south asia But um, I guess the only human infection Interestingly enough that was confirmed in the u.s. Was In a veterinarian in new york city that had close prolonged contact with a cat There was a cat outbreak actually in a shelter there recently I think last year So low risk, but Theoretical risks so and then the last one I mentioned west nile virus. There's no direct risk to humans from back here poultry Because it is a vector-borne mosquito-borne disease But poultry can be infected with that virus And have other mosquitoes then be infected by them having it in their blood, but they're not typically Affected by it. They don't get sick from it. So But I will the main concern is Salmonellosis and I'll let kala give a little Background on that. Hi. Um, I printed out some of these Slides if anyone's interested. I don't know. There's not a ton of copies, but Um So salmonellosis is an infection caused by the salmonella bacteria There's a ton of strains of this bacteria So you can get many different types of salmonella The cdc reports that there are 1.2 million cases and approximately 450 deaths annually in the u.s The annual incidence in the u.s. Is 15.2 illnesses per 100 000 individuals Signs and symptoms are some acute gi stuff ranging from mild to severe Diarrhea abdominal cramps fever nausea vomiting headache And in some cases it can Transmit into the bloodstream and cause more severe infection outside of the gi tract and Those can lead to life-threatening complications. This happens in about 8% of Salmonella cases And yeah, as I said the bloodstream bones joints brain nervous system. Um, but that's one of the more rare outcomes Um, so the way it's spread uh through animals This is kind of the general way a lot of gi pathogens are spread through animals Is that the animal shed the pathogens? Any young animals so the baby chicks and baby ducklings Are more likely to shed these pathogens So the pathogens contaminate the environment around the animals people get exposed to the pathogens by coming in contact with the animals themselves Or that environment um, many of these pathogens including salmonella have Uh, very low infectious dose So it does not take a lot of salmonella contact for you to get sick And then people get sick after being exposed to them and children are at the most risk for serious illness as well as elderly adults over 65 And those who are immunocompromised people who have uh other conditions like cancer or hiv So salmonella lives in the intestinal tract of humans and animals And eating a contaminated food or drinking contaminated water can lead to Infection and then as I talked about before touching the animals or their environments can expose you to the germs Um, so here are just some life poultry trends Uh, or excuse me salmonella associated with life poultry trends in the u.s. And in vermont So those uh dark red bars are the number of cases in the u.s. And the um Case count for those obtained um, so again next slide This is just highlighting um Children cases we have into 2017 and then the orange bars are the ones associated with poultry So you can really see the uh big proportion of the children under age 10 Who are affected with salmonella are affected due to contact with life poultry as opposed to other methods of getting salmonella um, so some other risk factors, so the top is uh data that was collected from 2011 to 2017 So 42 of those cases were in children under the age of 10 95 of the people who had salmonella reported owning less than 25 chicks So we're talking like low numbers backyard flocks versus agricultural For most cases and then 77 reported keeping the chicks inside their homes They're associated with getting salmonella is having the birds in close proximity to your living quarters and then in 2017 I have a little bit more data because this was the outbreak that I did most of my research on um 92 percent were purchased within um this poultry season. So that was within the year 2017 Um 77 percent said that they were aware of the connection between poultry and uh salmonella So a lot of these people had the knowledge. They just weren't necessarily using the right techniques To protect themselves from salmonella So you can see that 62 percent said that they always which was defined in the questionnaire By 95 to 100 percent of the time washed their hands directly after handling the live poultry So reportedly pretty high. Um, but still if you have almost 40 percent not washing their hands after touching poultry That's another big risk factor And then 77 percent said that they had um direct contact with the poultry themselves or their cages and enclosures There were two cases actually both in children that had no contact with the poultry at all They got sick um from contact with other people in their household So it is possible to get salmonella without uh directly touching the poultry as well With it just being in the environment or coming from the hands of another person Um, and then just some general recommendations based on some of the risk factors that we've seen in vermont And around the country After you touch a bird or anything in the area where it lives are realms always wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water If you do not have soap and water available hand sanitizer is um a second best Where you prepare food cook or eat um like the kitchen and then Set aside a pair of shoes to wear while taking care of birds.  Um, so we don't typically test eggs Uh for salmonella If there's like a single case um In situations where I would anticipate us testing Food items would be in like a large scale outbreak that was linked back to a specific restaurant or a specific food item um I have not had any personal experience with that. So I'm not sure Um, but the eggs that come from your chickens in your backyard can be contaminated with salmonella Um, mostly because of the fecal matter in the environment So there are separate set of guidelines from cdc about the handling of eggs in your home You should remove them from the Poultry environment quickly the longer they sit there the more likely they are to come in contact with fecal matter Um, and then you should wash them thoroughly at home. There are some epa approved products to do that And those are the best recommended. Um, or using one of those scrubber brushes if you don't want to put any Uh chemicals on your eggs and then refrigerating them. Um, if they're going to be kept out for, you know, more than 24 hours or so Or not consumed quickly after collecting them But yeah, I don't know what the incidence of like, you know, how many eggs you come in contact with that have salmonella Years ago there was a Was well known that chicken eggs Harbored salmonella within Within the egg if they weren't cooked thoroughly people could get sick from eating improperly cooked eggs That's probably still true Yeah, and the way we would hear about it like Kayla said is if there were human illnesses that we could link to you know eating Probably improperly cooked eggs, but um, that's how we would measure that So you probably have some good questions I'm getting the thank you so much for all the wonderful information and it was really helpful, but I'm kind of getting the impression that Or it's probably come out wrong. This isn't necessarily for the faint part I mean you want to know what you're doing and you want to have some good guidelines in place for how to care for chickens It's not Like going and getting your goldfish at the fair because it sounded like a great idea It's a lot more to it than Am I correct with that statement? Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, you need to sort of do your homework. I would imagine I don't have personal experience caring for chicken. Well, I do as in a zoo keeping setting so We were really good about biosecurity and you know training in those sort of instances, but In general a lot, you know these Especially salmonella and campylobacter. It's a lot of personal behave protective behaviors that are going to prevent illness Salmonella and campylobacter are both commensal organisms. So the Poultry are infected with them. They don't have illness from it So they can intermittently shed it that bacteria in their feces Uh, you know all the time and so there has to be a constant level of awareness and protection personal protection that people are Partaking in Yes, absolutely And parents being Vigilant enough to make sure that they're watching these children so that you don't end up with a much bigger problem Yeah, and children are at higher risk, you know, not only because well, you know I'm not fully developed immune system, but because uh, you know, they don't Have it as good of hand hygiene as adults do, you know, and they are, you know drawn to the probably the younger Animals like chicks and ducklings and they're they're more handheld and you know, of course want to kiss them and that kind of thing And you know, I think you may have said this to those younger animals are the ones who actually are shedding more bacteria Also because you know They're usually coming through mail order Stressful sort of situations that can make them shed more bacteria I mean your further questions So do you do you actually have an opinion as to whether we should allow chickens? Let me put you on the spot I'm for it. I mean, I think I mean You can't it's it's tough to put any sort of policy in place that will make someone Take personal protective measures all the time um I think the benefits are there. Um as far as main reasons people are moving to backyard chickens is, you know Organic movements local, you know food movements Wanting to make sure they're you know, they know where the food is coming from And that animals are treated humanely Um And they're really I guess they're really nice animals. You can even handle them. I know so But yeah, they're those risks are always there as they can be with any animal you raise You know, there's campylobacteriosis that other bacteria mentioned is also been linked to pet store puppies So and they're feces salmonella has been linked to dog feces as well You know, especially those that are fed raw diets or in that kind of thing. So You know hygiene in general, um is good practice It's just making sure that yeah people are aware of it giving them proper information Do you how long does the chicken live and how long does it lay eggs? They rarely live a natural lifetime I mean Yeah, it depends on what you're using for if it's strictly eggs. Yeah, they I I don't have any personal experience, but I had some friends in North Carolina that had some chickens and I think they were good layers for Four years, maybe or so, but People get attached and they want to you know, that's what I'm getting So assuming you you've gotten attached to Bessie and she's in a lovely comfortable house and all of these things But she's no longer laying eggs I'm looking at 10 years 12 years 20 years. I don't know the answer. Yeah I didn't come from here with that, but I just I was just curious um, what I will say too about uh, like salmonella specifically and campybacteris some of those things is it's Really the new chicks that you find have the highest Bacterioloads because they are coming from stressful environments and they're in really close proximity with tons of other chicks Either at the hatchery in the mail or at Whatever store you purchase them from So once you get those chicks home the risk isn't Gone, you know that for years after you have them, but the risk does decrease over time When they're out of those kind of really high risk situations for them to be shedding So there's always still a risk of getting Salmonella from your chickens in the backyard But kind of the majority of cases come from those new chicks that you're Like, you know recently purchasing It's similar to that More cases are associated with in persons who have had Poultry for less than a year because they're they're new to the practice And so they might have not gotten their biosecurity practices Completely down so that also improves as you have chickens longer That's the question I want to ask Is following up on something you started to talk about is Compared to other animals that a residential home might have dogs cats rabbits birds Ferrets, I you know, I don't know what else maybe even swine or Where where do where do chickens how do chickens in terms of the public health risk? Are chickens more risky less risky about the same you can't really answer that Fairly, I would say more risky compared to the domestic pets that we you know allow in our homes I would say Probably in the same level as other agriculture animals, you know, we've we've had seminalysis leaked to other you know goats and Equal life from you know cattle and that kind of thing so Um, the difference is I I think these agriculture animals are now being raised in a sort of more home environment On a smaller scale and so that cross contamination is easier between the home environment, you know where you're preparing food The other children are Versus on a farm Commercial farm practices that have very strict biosecurity practices. So That's it. I was like, I don't think they're inherently more risky But people aren't keeping, you know Horses in their kitchens the way they are with chickens sometimes So it's just you know, kind of the practices surrounding raising chicks is different That makes it more risky. Yeah, and there can be some Misconceptions on like, you know, chicks need to be kept warm. And so there's you know, people will take them inside You know when they're being sold more around the springtime when it's still kind of cold where It just puts themselves at more risk The other question I have, I know it's going to be hard for you to maybe critique An ordinance or so so only burned you with one question and that has to do with the number Is there any guidance that you can help with in terms of what is a What is an appropriate number for a Residential property that's let's say on on the smaller side in terms of you know zoning how many homes are allowed per acre type thing That's something I would have to in terms of an animal health perspective to like avoid sort of crowding. That's something I would have to consult with our agriculture um colleagues on I would say You don't want them crowded as far as But being healthy and not shedding, you know more bacteria because of that but Chickens don't need friends for example. I mean Like do you need to have three of them? Do you need to actually you need to have 10 of them? They do like having each other. Yeah I mean, I think that's the question we're trying to find out. Okay All right I mean to give to be more specific the ordinance that's that's in front of us for you know as a first cut to take a look At has six and I didn't want to bring up a specific number if I didn't have to but now I did is You know is six kind of on the smaller side. It would it seem reasonable to you does it allow more than six It seems reasonable. You could maybe allow more but what was interesting to us about it. Kayla brought this up. Is that Vermont state statute does not allow you to purchase any fewer than six birds if you buy them At Yeah at a store in vermont if you order them online through a mail service and have them directly shipped to your house You can get less But it's technically not legal Um, so When you say six, that's kind of uh, people don't have a choice to get Any fewer than six. So I I wouldn't go lower than that because you'll conflict with some other Rules, um, but I guess like the anticipated issues I could see with that is um this year For example, I heard when I was interviewing a lot of these cases Um that there was a high mortality rate among chicks For I think a couple of reasons but one that was mentioned was our really cold spring um So In a situation like this there was a lot of folks who you know lost quite a few of their chicks and went back and tried to Purchase more. So I guess if you lose, you know all about one And you want to get more and you can only buy six that might be an issue. Uh, I don't know You know from a public health standpoint Um, I will say for that reason six or seven is going to make a difference Yeah So I will say the end sort of flock number might not be up to the person ordering for that reason is that there is a High chick sort of mortality, you know being sent through the mail and um, sort of that crowding Practices and so you really don't know what you're gonna who who is going to survive to adulthood? and so that end number I think is hard to entirely um predict when you're ordering or Since then of what size of a structure you need to accommodate comfortably six chickens No, I didn't yeah From a public health standpoint, we don't really know that but that's again something we could Check with our agriculture colleagues I don't know if you realize this but i'm an expert on chickens At least as far as the internet helps The average lifespan to answer the question is in the range of seven to eight years Although there have been one or two that exceeded um, 11 years and I think one might even made it to 16 years According to the Guinness book of world records but um as far as laying eggs The internet tells me that They don't stop at a certain age. They just gradually Lay less and less until the end of their life in which case There are questions ceases So I think that Answers that one question So there's folks in the audience who are interested in this subject. Do you have any questions for our experts tonight? Even with your concerns that's the proper Precautions that it would that you support that Um, and even though I do not want to have the mind house. I support the idea that I think it would be I should reiterate that that's my personal Not the opinion of the Vermont Department of Health But I will say CDC also doesn't discourage People from having you know, they just they really just make sure you have those protective measures in place and that you're aware of the risks I just I grew up as a forager with poultry and other things And I was wondering if I wanted chickens in retirement And so when front porch forum had a somebody looking for someone to take care of their chickens when they went on vacation Chicken sitting so to speak I responded just because I wanted to see what it was like and through that wound up Sitting for chickens from several people At different times when they're going on vacation and it's 20 below And what I can just say is the flocking behaviors there sort of need to be a minimum of three And um, when you get more than eight or 10, you're sort of out of the realm of the backyard chickens in my view I have sat for someone who had nine or 10 and it just seemed like that was More of a production. Whereas the three to six to eight was Felt like a backyard chicken thing such as personal anecdotal thing and I do have experience within the last couple years So you have a job when you retire Yes, I did try to find like a definition of backyard flock When I was doing research just to kind of I think I said that most of the people had less than 25 birds Which was just in the questionnaire. It was kind of sectioned out. It was um, I think one to six or one to five six to 11 and then like 11 to 25 or like 25 and more is how it was Questioned out. So that's kind of why I picked 25 because of the questionnaire Um, but there is like no real good definition of backyard Flock or like a number that constitutes that per acreage or things. So And I should say if you're raising them for meat and not for eggs You want more and you probably would slaughter them after four to six months. So it that's Two different things if you did just for eggs enough for a family four or five is plenty Um But I I think the Town has already looked at the ordinance is of burlington and south burlington as really good standards That I don't know if we've had an opportunity to look at or have People come and speak about the success of those in those communities, but it seems to me they've had them for a while They're, you know had six hands certain amount of space and I believe the acreage there is any parcel And here it's an acre that we're talking about you have to have an acre in order to have a flock Um, which I think in williston is also, you know, there for instance, my house is half an acre But I'm on a corner and it's um, you know Undeveloped land on two sides, right? So you have to sort of the rural nature Even if you maybe don't have a full acre of land something to be considered here There's like a lot of neighborhoods like that as well thank you Are there any other questions for Our experts something you don't mind one more One of the other aspect of our ordinance is that it limits it to female Chickens only and I was wondering if there's any issues or thoughts about female only versus Having I understand the issue with male chickens roosters, but is there any public health aspect of having a soul sex sex flock Not that I know of but I will say that and there should be a plan for If you do get a rooster because sometimes they can sex Incorrectly um when they can be sexed incorrectly when they're very young chicks And so you can it's there's a possibility you still might end up with a rooster and so there should be a contingency Plan, I don't know if this needs to be an ordinance, but that person should have a plan for what might Need to happen might have to happen. Yeah, the town will take the rooster But it it's about an 80 success rate Sexing the chickens when they're juveniles are younger Yeah, so about 80 of the time they get it right So there is a 20 chance that you'll end up with a rooster when you thought you got a chick I hope you're not asking me to be impressed by that No, it's that's not great I did ask a co-worker who has a more experience raising Poultry to review the ordinance and she had really positive things to say she thought it looked really good But that was one of the things she brought up because she has personal experience with said unwanted rooster And cannot find a place to re-home him currently So it is something to consider If there's no more questions. Thank you very much for coming tonight. We really appreciate it Did you take the place of bob johnson? I did. Yeah. Yep Learning the ropes, but it's been fun. Thank you. So I think in For time's sake, we'll put this on hold until another meeting to discuss the The pose one quick question. Yeah, it came up the issue of one acre. Is that in our ordinance? That's in the current Yeah, that's the whole idea of Making it more permissive But then also if we're going to do that adding some requirements and regulations the one acre part will go away Under the change will change. Okay. I wonder what's proposed here Yeah, and it would be any Sounds like any residential partial partial And the one acre is tied to also a bylaw amendment that the plan should be part of the general Bylaw update that they look to potentially bring the floor layer this winter the bylaw right now states any livestock inclusive of Chickens it can only be held on a parcel an acre or above So the draft language lowers that threshold to under an acre. So but that's kind of the enabling factor of that regulation As I understand it would not apply to I mean south, which for an example, which specifically prohibits right If you're living in a pod that otherwise prohibits that that still is going to prohibit that regardless of right The homeowners associations bylaws would supersede this and that makes sense to me But I also noticed in here talks about condominiums, which Um, it would be allowed on a condominium type property whatever it was ownership Yeah, and I believe that clause I um, I brought it from south philipton s6 what they noticed All right. Good. Thank you Thanks. We'll move on then to Sidewalk winter maintenance requests and boost horror we had when you were here before we had two requests and Looks good different. I only have one. Pardon me And I only have one. Well, maybe you could explain what happened to that What'd you do to humbers? I made a mistake Um, the one section we're already plowing So so we did do an update Uh, and in the update There really is only one Um request and it's a uh repeat request and that's what chris snider was here for Last week was the last week I was here last week. Yeah, not too long ago um And that's about the finish the finning project and the fact that he's planning on Well, first of all back in 15. I think it was he asked us to start plowing those walks and paths and We declined and recommendation from me from public works was not to be doing it because we didn't even own them yet He is saying and I believe him that he's going to have at least zephyr road The top put on this season and then ask us to Take over that road And a couple other roads in that development And he's just trying to make sure that uh, he's asking that we start plowing That path along zephyr Right now he's doing zephyr. He does all the sidewalks in there, although the associations are the ones that are doing some of the sidewalks So my recommendation in this request is that if he truly does get it done and turns it over to us That we should at least do the path along zephyr road Uh next winter and then we can do that without Um adding very much to our workload But once again it's contingent on Him getting that done and I'm only recommending the path along zephyr not the all the sidewalks through the development They'll have to go through the same process that any other Sidewalk goes through in developments Which is really none. We don't really do any right now. So Consistent with that thought is um We're recommending this be tabled until such time as we know whether or not they're going to have it done in time for When I say done the paving done And and ready to turn over to town prior to the Plowing season next year And what gives us the ability to do that is you don't anticipate it will affect the public works department's fiscal year 2019 budget if we do include it Or not significantly impacted. Maybe that's no that's right. It'll be uh, if we do what I'm suggesting is in just the bike path The paid section then that'll be truck work. Anyway, our pickup truck will do it And it won't add You know it might add 15 minutes dependent upon the storm obviously And whether we're using blowers or trucks if we go to snow blowers all bets are off anyway, so I took us uh Till today just to get the sidewalks blown over from the weekend because we had to use snowblower the snowblower Further questions for bruce. There is a motion motion suggested Move to table the sidewalk maintenance request for fiscal year 2019 Motion has been made in seconded is your discussion on the motion Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye Aye We opposed So we've done that. Oh chaven. Yes We don't we don't want to start by our policy. We don't want to start Sidewalk plowing till we're done doing all the roads the guys didn't even get them plowing until saturday They were out on sunday doing the sidewalks Great thanks Good So you're on for next the next item which is the motor vehicle and traffic ordinance amendment Yes, this is a request from uh residents that live on the What I call upper old stage road northern section North and mountain view to the dead end The speed limit up there right now. It's 35 miles an hour And there was a request from some of the residents to see about reducing it to 25 miles per hour So I had the uh requested regional planning commission to take a look at that and uh They came back with a recommendation that uh it meets the criteria to to lower that speed limit from 35 to 25 Based on the 85th percentile speed in other words people aren't driving 35 miles an hour up there anyway So we can lower it to 25 without Being detrimental to anything and the data supports it So that's our recommendation so if We'd like to do something like this. We need to schedule a public hearing on this subject So that would be the appropriate motions tonight if we're considering it So this is this is the old stage road christmas tree farms That's correct who the adams apple orchard just just a section north of mountain view road I moved to schedule a public hearing to receive comment on a proposed amendment to the town's traffic ordinance That would lower the speed limit on old stage road northern section Motion has been made in seconded this your discussion on the motion The study was pretty conclusive that that's They're driving pretty nice Actually to see that it works out to what people would like to see I was surprised, but it was good. It was my surprise I mean the fact that it's a relatively short dead-end road.  I mean I don't know why I was ever put at 35 miles and just because of the rest of old stage road I'm assuming why it was posted so Yeah If there's no more discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Aye opposed. All right. Can we take in care of that? or on through the budget review and So we have a number of questions that to resolve tonight hopefully and jeff has put out a proposal by email Earlier than probably everybody saw that maybe you'd like to explain your rationale and we can Go on to other things as well this this I guess in a sense comes up every year, you know, what what metrics or parameter do you use when you're trying to figure out if you think the The budget or the impact of the budget and the impact of the budget the one that I primarily would measure it is You know the impact on the tax rate What parameter metrics do you use and I think one of the easiest easiest in terms is it's easiest to make the connection to me is Is it consistent consistent how much more money people are making might be a you know Simple way to do it. How much are their salaries going up? There's no there's no answer to that question of how much are their salaries going up You don't know that for well-established, but my sense is is you know with things like you know, how much of a raise do You know town employees get I know what you know the the state entity. I work for you know, what our annual salary increases are it's built into you know, our negotiated Agreement with the state, you know, and it's it's more than likely At least until somebody tells me I'm wrong in the one to two percent range So that that's a key parameter for me If in terms of what is it somebody can afford Um So it it's I don't know what else to add to it other than you know, it When we go above that we we I feel like I really have to have a strong reason to do that And um, so my goal is is that the uh tax the impact on the tax rate is no more than You know one to two percent and you know, which you can Read, you know, if it goes above two percent or around two percent That's when I'm going to start saying, you know, wait a second. This just doesn't feel right I need I need to feel more comfortable with why it's above two percent Needs to be above two percent That's the best way I can explain it So the budget that was presented to us was a little bit more than two about 3.4 percent So we would need to know how much we would need to cut the budget in order to do what you're suggesting My calculation, it's around two hundred thousand dollars I mean Maybe I'm wrong One penny one penny is uh close to two hundred thousand dollars, right but Okay, so I don't think you're talking about cutting a whole penny No, I'm not right now I didn't do the math in terms of what is two percent added on to the current tax rate Jennifer knows Jennifer has thank you And you'd be asking the board to cut 80 000 from the managers. I'm glad I miscalculated that And I would suggest if if we're going to go this route that we look at the fact that last year Costs the living for employees went up one percent and the tax rate stayed flat So if we're going to look at that then I think we should be going closer to three percent To catch up from last year of not doing a one percent increase There's there's another thing too. I mean whatever the board whatever Target the board wants is fine And we'll work with whatever direction the board gives us but there's a a little bit of a Problem with the numbers you're using Jeff because you're when you're taking a percent of a tax rate That's very different than When you're talking about the actual numbers. So for example, someone's earning $50,000 just to say can they get a two percent increase That's a thousand dollar. They earn thousand dollars more over what they earned the previous year But if you do the tax rate a penny is Ten dollars per hundred thousand so let's say it's a four hundred thousand dollar home That's forty dollars more versus You know if you just pick that one fifty thousand dollar number It's they've earned a thousand dollars more and they're only having to pay forty dollars more taxes So you see the numbers aren't quite Adding up the way you you think They are And I get that but in my defense if you will Our impact on on residents in terms of their cost is one of many, you know There's fuel. There's car insurance. There's blah blah blah a gazillion things that Everybody pays and and those are also going up. So That analogy of yes, you know compared to their salary our tax increase is a small bit of what Of that piece of what their salary went up When you aggregate it all together, I think we all should have that goal whether we're we're an insurance company Whether we're selling fuel oil or telephone service or Repairs to homes. We should all aim for that one to two percent If that's what people's salaries are going of course, the world doesn't work that way. We know that we For whatever reasons and I mean, I don't mean to pick on Champlain Water District But they were recently in telling us they're going up was it some 3.5 percent There's probably a very solid reason why they have to do that and there's some people on fixed income that may not get any increase at all. Yeah, so To me that's that's the parameter. I use as as good or Not as it is 2% yeah What um I don't know what the appropriate time to share this But I guess we'll throw it in the mix I you know, I keep doing these sheets and I I did another one today that I distributed So I want to quickly go through that to help you understand some of the numbers And I'll just highlight some of the changes Item number four is new. It's um, we looked at our Money that we have in our highway large highway truck rotational fund And we've actually been earning least this year anyway more money in this truck old trucks We sell than what we had budgeted for So we feel comfortable that we can reduce that amount at least for next fiscal year by 25,000 Unfortunately That doesn't affect the tax rate because that 20 the money That we're going to pay for that was being paid for out of the fund balance So on the revenue side, you'll find Your line item number four I've reduced the Amount we're going to take out a fund balance by 25,000 So it's a net wash as far as The tax rate goes, but it is an important piece because it's a little bit less That we be applying to fund balance because I know some board members are a little concerned about over using that Which is a good, I mean, it's a legitimate concern. So that's number one number two. I did Put under the recommended column for staff the Positions that were requested by the chief And I Took out From our staff recommendation the custodian the full-time custodian We've been getting by with part-time custodian for a number of years It is a harder position those are harder positions to fill We just did fill that Open full of part-time position we had we're hoping that that person will last Our record isn't good, but you know, we can continue to limp by and and So that's why I deducted that Or at least recommended deduction on the fire side One of the board members that I don't recall who asked why I did had not included in the budget And I mentioned a couple things but one thing I forgot to mention is one of the primary reasons I Didn't include it was well, I one of the things I did mention was The impact on the budget and but the other piece of it was at the time I was preparing the budget I didn't feel comfortable with the numbers And so since between then when I you know, they were talking about the end of november early december And now Jennifer spent a fair amount of time hours probably going through the budget and all the numbers with the the fire chief And we feel comfortable now with these numbers So I that that was kind of a major factor in my decision making when I presented the budget Um outside services were recommending five thousand. That's because I think we budgeted 25,000 and lake erhoi is asking for The association is asking for 20,000. So that was an easy one And Let's see I guess those are the oh one other important change On the revenue picture If you look under the tax calculation block Uh the grand list number The number we had been using was I think 190,000 194 194 Um We that did not include any increase at all in the grand list And of course we do know that the grand list is increasing So we have um taken a conservative number And added as far as a potential increase and added that to the grand list Um, so that Is a higher grand list value and therefore the tax impact will be slightly less than If you look at one of the earliest sheets you can see I think it was The budget was around 27 and a half cents and now it's 27.3 Which is closer to 3% that's a 3% increase from our current tax rate But can we talk a little Talk a little bit not a little bit. Can we talk about the environmental reserve fund? Yes, and is that does that fall under the same category as the um The highway truck rotational because it was proposed to be funded through the fund balance You're talking about the 200,000 Yes, yeah, if you take that out, then there's no it doesn't affect the tax rate I mean eventually it does but you know for nexus fear it would not I would say that the Jennifer can correct me. We have 20,000 in there that Is in addition to what We authorized for the we authorized for the current year, which is 40,000 And so the proposals up at the 60,000. So if you take that 20,000 out that is um a tax impact item But of course the reason we did that is That we're going to be short in the the um, in fact, we're going to zero out the environmental reserve fund as it stands now Without that, uh, even with the adding that 20,000 in there The point I would make about that and first of all, don't read this as I take this lightly zeroing out the environmental reserve fund on the other hand we are Trying to adequately Fund the purchase of a major piece of conservation land Um, I assume the most expensive one at least in terms of town Dollars that are being spent on one So the concept that We are zeroing it out And we'll have I don't you know Years we have the future to build it back up whatever you wanted to find the future in a couple years or maybe many years Does it the word I mean I get the concern But it doesn't worry me because we are we're making such an investment in this one piece of land that From what I can tell it doesn't have universal or complete Um support, but I would say it has widespread community support Maybe I wasn't clear With without adding the 20,000 we won't have enough money Even to buy this land. We'll be short 20,000 So the 60,000 that's more the annual contribution Versus the 200 that's more associated with hopefully we'll get a grant right now positive We will get a grant amount We need that 60 thousand dollars to make up the 400 thousand dollars that the town has already committed Okay, I was under I guess I misunderstood where we were in the Okay Let's talk about the 200 thousand dollars and the risk of not fully Funding that on the other hand In a sense, it's the wash because it's coming out of the fund balance. I personally I it seems like An easy decision because it doesn't have immediate impact on the tax rate It's an insurance policy that if we don't get the grant we have it And you know what what would happen if we don't get the grant Well, first of all, we need the money anyway Even if we do get the grant we need it Initially for the purchase The timing so I don't see where there's a lot of choice if you're if you're assuming we're going to buy the land And you're advocating for buying the land right now after let's say the money comes in And goes into environmental reserve fund And then we get the grant and so That we that money will stay in environmental reserve fund then you know next fiscal year You can decide well, do we not fund the environmental reserve fund anymore? You know there's we've got the land We have time to build the fund back up. There's 200,000 in it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly This is always the trouble. I mean this happens every year where Everything we look at there's a liability. There's none of this is fluff so I guess one question we need to talk about anyway is the far department request for the three positions And whether there's support for that I asked Jennifer to give us some information on what would happen to the tax rate with that And also if we just decided to do it for a half a year Did you Did respond to that Did I send it to you directly rick? Yes I don't have my notes in front of me up back so if you can Oh, you have it. Okay. Yes I did those those calculations, but I don't remember them off the top of my head of what they were so if you could share them Share that with her Jennifer this is great for me. You're making me feel like how many times somebody says well, I sent you that email and I'm like, yeah, but There's been a lot of numbers flying around the past few days coming up with creative ways Um Here's so it says So adding three full-time fire to firefighter paramedics less the reduction in call fire Empty hours Plus the increase in ambulance revenue. So those things are all tied together So one doesn't happen without the other we don't say we're funding three full-time firefighters and keeping call staff where it is All of these are together So that is approximately $40,000 So the estimated tax rate would be 27 sent 0.2767 I don't know how to say that or $2 a year for each hundred thousand of assessed value Um, so doing this for half a year. I made some assumptions in there of That because we'd be doing it for a half year There'd be some lag time In that so we wouldn't you can't just take that 40,000 and cut it in half It's going to be more like a $30,000 impact if we do it for half a year Because it's going to take a while for that revenue to catch up and just be fully staffed in that sort of thing So doing that would be an estimated tax rate of 0.2762 Or a dollar fifty a year per hundred thousand dollar And then the last one on here was just the part-time custodian Changing a part-time custodian to a full-time custodian for half a year Instead of the full year That one is an easy one where we can just cut that in half. So instead of the 27,000 it'd be 13,500 And so that is 70 cents a year less or Yes So or a tax rate of 0.2740 or 70 cents per hundred thousand dollar of assessed value for those different those are Just some different suggestions that terry said of like what would be the tax impact of doing all this Of course, all these numbers have changed since our new estimated grand list value That we just got this afternoon But similar Similarly If you want to mention that Teresa was unable to be here this evening She really planned to be here and something came up if she couldn't be She had sent an email with some her thoughts on it And so I let me go ahead, please The first thing she's recommending cutting the are removing 15,000 from the housing trust fund She feels we should Look at inclusionary zoning first and She doesn't feel the need to fix the housing problem on the backs of other homeowners She also recommends removing 25,000 dollars for the church steeple. She's not in favor of that She feels that saying the town owns the clocks Is kind of A way to keep the town responsible for the building And the clock is part of the church and she feels it's inappropriate for the town to pay for the Towards a replacement of the steeple and she feels that She suspects they can raise the money Even if the town doesn't contribute She also questions the vna funding Wondering why we do this is this typical for towns to spend People should donate to charities not use tax dollars for that Um, she thinks it's a great organization, but questions the town's contribution Um, she also Wonders whether we should remove the 200,000 for the catamount property. She assumes that we're going to get the grant But you know, I've already kind of presented the arguments. Um, that that presents the problems that presents Um, she also wonders about the monieski valley park district, but that that's not a factor that affects next year's budget at this point So I think that kind of quickly summarizes which she says did she provide any comment about the fire department? Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, she did Um, she said she was on the fence. Um, she felt that because I had not included in the budget Um, she was kind of leaning maybe Towards not supporting it But, um, she's not 100 clear on How she feels on that at this point Where can I ask one question? Um, hypothetically If we were to say, um, to eliminate the 200,000 for the urf for the grant, you know, to cover the grant The the grant aspect of the of the urf Contribution from the budget. I realize it would have, you know, a net zero impact because of the source of revenue for that But let's just say we did that and Six months from now seven months from now we find out We were not getting the grant So we've cut it from the budget. It's not in the urf And we learned that we're not getting the grant. So we're 200 000 short on on purchasing the catamount Community forest What would be our options at that point? Well, first of all the the Timings of the law, um, I think they're hoping to close on that before the end of this fiscal year Okay, and we won't have the money to close on it because we need that 200 000 the grant wouldn't come until after we buy it so But but that 200 000 that we vote on in march and let's say it's approved That still wouldn't be available would it until after Yes, it would it would it would we there's a 30-day waiting period if someone can appeal or What's what's the word I want before? You can once the budget's approved people have 30 days to file reconsideration or whatever it is But once that passes then that money is available for our use Learn something new every every day I mean the operating expenses generally wouldn't be available but Because we haven't gotten to that part of the year. We haven't reached that point in time at which yeah, okay. All right Okay So the problem is even even if we get the grant we still need approval for the money because we don't have enough cash So we would be in a real bind Well, the bind is we wouldn't be able to buy the land Good. Thank you for the fourth rate Blunt answer Actually, those are usually better The church steeple. I'll just add a comment about that is I've given some thought I asked the question about the separation of church and state My feeling is is How long has that clock been in there for 100 thank you 113 years If we were not to you know So The structure that holds our clock. I feel we have some responsibility to help maintain we the town If we were not to provide money I'm being a little bit facetious But they probably have a right to package that clock up put it in a box and keep that box of stones and bring it here to us and say Here's your clock. Um I'm being facetious. I hope everybody realizes this but it's it You know, I'm I'm of the opinion that it is an asset to the town. It is worth protecting and $25,000 is Anticipating it's going to be there for another hundred and 13 years is a worthwhile investment Um, what else did terry uh the fire department? Um I I'm in favor of of it. Um chief can chief morton made a uh, he convinced me the He convinced me that we are not adequately using the equipment That the town has supported the ambulance equipment in the fire department equipment by not having sufficient full-time sufficient staff On duty to utilize that equipment his example of two people are driving somebody to the Hospital we may not be able to respond to another ambulance or fire call and and and and that that's That's an issue that's a problem and I think uh I I trust Your analysis the the impact over the other piece we need to add in is the unfortunate And when you use the word demise, maybe that's not the best word I apologize if it isn't but demise or decrease in the on call Staff but that from all indications. That's the reality of of our fire ambulance People's ability to serve And which just puts more emphasis on why the full-time staff Needs to be needs to be added and now is is the right time to do that and the cost the 63 000 Again seems like a worthwhile investment to me So I guess I'll just dominate the conversation Oh, no, I completely agree with you on that one having done first responder work and also I mean young it's tough I I had to leave because there's no way to be at a closing table and I got to run When you get toned out, so Okay So I guess we need a straw vote tonight as to whether we want to include Ask these town owners to include that in the Proposal that he'll come back with next week include the fire department three positions. Okay. I'm in favor of it Yes, I think we have unanimous unanimous agreement on that unanimous of those here Well, even even if Teresa said no, right four people that are carrying it, right So, um Rick will come back with a Proposal to us next week with the proposed tax rate. Um, but what What target that this is target is right and kind of thing because I mean really you've done a remarkable job I appreciate you guys being willing to give up your full-time custodian and limp along in terms of trying to keep the taxpayers going if there is Any other possible savings anywhere and I know that everybody has worked brutally hard To get it to where it is The only comment I would make was that while I so appreciate what we did last year and especially what you folks did with keeping it pretty much level I don't Like the comment of we should be able to raise it by that Percentage up this year if that makes sense. That's not an attack. It's just a we were able to save it last year I don't think that means that we get to add that to what we're adding to this year that come out, right? I don't know what else I can add beside the 2% is my My guideline Is the rate of inflation right now 2% 2% I would say let's try that as a target if it's right now How much money would it would take from the proposed budget 80,000 we'd have to cut is that And we just added 63,280 dollars with the fire department So how It might it might not be you know, I I'll I'll say I I'm not Opposed to voting for a budget that is above a 2% Increase to keep up with the rate of inflation, but I'm I don't want to do it I guess I'd need to see you know, we'll we'll have our favorites. Um, I I look at the uh, I don't know what to think about the church I mean, I doubt it I doubt Jeff's Parade of horribles would actually happen Presented with the public comment moment of a select board meeting with a with a clock And a box of rocks Maybe a bicycle too I don't want to say political but maybe a public outreach Component to all of this and I think if we can keep it close to the rate of inflation that we should One of the problems that I've seen over the years as a select board member though is that In this was particularly the time as the Great Recession was hitting And is that you know, we have we've all these deferred Things that should be happening Good government good nuts and bolts stuff and then it doesn't happen because Because we don't have the money And that's you know, that's just the way it is. I mean, that's the way it is with families is the way it is with businesses and My law practice, you know, it's just We're not all made out of money But that being said, uh, when there is a you know, when we're talking about the different unit 2% to keep up with the rate of inflation and a 3% because You know, these other things are unavoidable. I'm I'm not going to feel that I didn't do my job if it's Somewhere in between there, but it's a do what you can to get it close to 2% and And I don't think it would be the full 80 because I think when we did the $80,000 calculation, it was based on the the other The grand list as it stands right now not the estimated 60 I think Anyway, whatever it is We'll come back with a laundry list of Ideas and well the large highway truck rotational Expenditure is that that doesn't help right There may be other items that and there we may end up giving a long list of small items too But yeah, we'll we'll come up with if that's what the board wants. I mean I hear two members but I Have concerns to stick to around 2% as best we can Okay, we'll come up with this Thank you The start of it is here, but yes, we'll be adding to it So next week we'll be Wonder the gun to make the final decision We may Have some things next week the last week we're meeting every week Yes, we're we're we're giving you one week break in january So I think we're going to the manager's report All right All right, um Bruce just left um That I guess I can give his report on river cove road Interesting. I don't know if well, I have some photographs That I'll share with you later, but there these are gigantic trunks of ice that got Washed up onto the bridge and onto the road And uh, it's going to take a little doing to get them removed And once we get them removed then we're going to have to make sure the integrity of the bridge is still on Okay If it is then we can reopen the bridge Um, we're or hope to get it down and and get the ice removed Over the next day or two But there's no guarantees because once we get in there and look at it Um, if the bridge is There's a compromised and the bridge is going to stay closed I have an extra hair dryer if you I don't think it's going to take it's going to be um heavy equipment. It's going to the size of these things There's a water line on one pole. It's like High feet off the ground or so maybe even a little higher. Um, that's It's kind of amazing North wilson road bridge was also closed for a short time, but that's um, that's fairly normal and I don't know of any It reopened pretty quickly, so The other um Little problem, of course was with the library and the good news is um, we're going to be reopening it tomorrow morning at 10 a.m The new carpeting is in And um, the the damage was um, well the carpeting But of course we were replacing that anyway um, if the carpeting the reason the carpeting had to be replaced originally was because the um glue Was failing and of course when you add water to it, it may even worse But if the glue had been fine, you might have been able to salvage the carpeting But in this case it didn't matter there was some, uh A little bit of damage to some drywall But it was pretty minor The the biggest cost is the expense of dewatering the building That was about $20,000 There's some damage to the phone system That's I don't know. We don't know the full extent. We're gonna we we know at the very least we have to replace some of the phones Some of the wiring was Let's the conduit where the although the wires run through. Well, it was a water conduit for water In addition to the wires But as it dries out some of the stuff is coming back We have problems with the fire alarm system But I you know, I think they'll be able to work through that Some of the wiring That goes underneath the slab Into certain little conduit boxes. Um, they have we have made problems with that too, but You know, we'll work through those issues but the good news is um, it's going to be open tomorrow and the Marty Fisk her staff and a host of volunteers deserve a lot of credit for The all their hard work and the historical society played a role too They had to move a bunch of stuff around in in their room. It wasn't affected at all by the flooding But as part of the putting in new rugs They had to do a lot of work and they had a good crew there from what I understand So let's see other items Finance report I'll let Jennifer do that a minute The quarterly report I do not have for this evening I will have for your Stormwater maintenance You I just wanted to highlight this point. You may recall back in July. We had a big discussion with the school About who's going to maintain the storm water system. They agreed they were going to fix it But then they wanted to turn over the town and we said, well, you know, I'm not so fast and anyway We shared with them information that we had about how much we pay to the school each year for the use of their buildings license agreements and it's hundreds of thousands of dollars and We of course asked the question. Well, what are other towns paying and So in any case they decided that they would drop this issue and so because we had talked about forming a committee and all that and In conversations with gene jensen I questioned the the value of creating a broad based committee I thought well, you know, at least we can work on at the staff level But she was able to work it through the numbers herself and decide that it was Fair for them to keep maintaining that system. So That's a non issue at this point and On the select board meeting in December 19th. There were some questions about the north wilson road study I believe you have an excerpt of that study I think there's also I made available link online To the full study and there's a memo from eric wells in your packet as well The at this point staff is recommending we wait for the other study To be completed and then see if there's any Work that needs to be done on north wilson road that the board wants to pursue We do have money in the budget already to do some of the design work on that So there's no decision the board would have to make now When I say in the budget, I mean that had been previously approved for the capital project It's not something that's part of the operating budget for next fiscal year So that is um That is there any on that particular issue? Are there any questions? Okay, and I guess that's it so finance report Just a couple items to highlight here Expeditors are trending as they should for this time of year We haven't had any significant budgeted expenses um water and sewer the Waterline break on route 2a that we thought could possibly be covered under insurance Is we're not able to cover it under their insurance Um due to um the status of the pipe at the time when they took it out it was The damage wasn't necessarily caused by the construction Um, and then it was the condition of the pipe that pipe was deteriorated. Yes There's a question about how much Did the construction work really impacted in because it was deteriorated so much it would have failed anyway I mean you can argue that both ways And also part of our agreement of doing the project is we had to Sign off that we wouldn't file claims against anything that happened. Oh, okay. Oh interesting. Yes And then each quarter I do report on the special revenue investment in capital funds The one fund that's changed quite a bit this quarter is um the storm water loan and grant fund So we have received the two grants from the state for both south ridge neighborhood in brennan woods neighborhood Right now we hold those funds in that account Waiting for the projects to be completed as those projects are completed Then those funds will go back out to the neighborhoods. So they're sitting in there now And then we are getting some great interest rates deb is moving money around as she can For better interest rates. So a question on the The carpet replacement in the library. Are we going to get any money back? Yes So we will pay our deductible, which is a thousand dollar a thousand dollars Um, and then the other expenses for this will be covered under Our insurance The piece I don't know is if it'll change the capital dollars that we are paying for our current Carpet project because they did remove some of the carpet for us So I think marty was getting in a a new quote from Um, I believe it's lacy's carpet that was doing that work So that may actually go down the capital cost Probably it'll go down at least to cover our deductible So the uh historical society has put aside monies to pay for some of the carpet So it would be nice if we got a break on that as well, but uh, okay If possible and just let me know so We can write a check for the proper amount when it comes time to do that That carpeting wasn't affected by the it was not at all I just wondered over totally. Well, yeah, we went that That's true. It wasn't Okay Any other questions Just one quick one. So I tried to be brief under this special revenue investments in capital funds I understand the concept of we've gotten these grants. Um, what is it the um Creamwater initiative grants the grants go into the special fund And The funds are payable to neighborhoods And my question is is is that all the 17 neighborhoods that have expired permits? Or is it just to the ones for which the grants were received? Um, it's done based on the grant allocation policy So it's all of those neighborhoods And so right now I have a As each one of those grants come in we allocated out to the different neighborhoods and as Like say Brennan Woods finishes their project. They will get any grant funds That are allocated according to the percentages that are in the policy. Okay. Good that I understand The the I guess the only question I have is from the state's perspective that provided the grants When they provided it for a specific project Do they have any concerns that that money is allocated across all the neighborhoods versus that specific neighborhood? Does that make sense? It does we we had a quite a debate on that issue um at the staff level and the the answer is that It in in in some respects a different thing Because we got the grant And this other distribution thing is a whole separate thing. Okay And so It's because we got the grant to do the project. We did the project. We completed this successfully and so So from the grant Milestones or performance measurements you've met all of those. Yeah, exactly. Okay, exactly. I think I get it Yeah, great. Thank you. Thanks And you're done with it. It's all I have Other business Rick sent us out the report dedication list Today, what do we need to make a decision on that? I'll buy tuesday of next next week So um instead of by name if you would Respond with your top choice by number Um by email to rick as soon as you can me to do that again I had sent an email to you already. Do you need it again by a number? Oh, um, no, I know I know that you're one That I only um, I don't know if other board members Anyway, you'll find out. Yeah Um, there was the one person I added. Yes Yeah It's not easy talking about these. Yeah, yeah, right without revealing and I was just about to reveal more than I needed to or I wanted to um Yeah, I'll I'll I'll deal with it separately. I'll Sorry um I just sent out the uh, the draft select board report. They got response from one person so far We have until tomorrow right until tomorrow, but you know drop dead date is friday. So in case you don't get to it Thank you. Uh, any other business that we need to talk about tonight Okay, then we are adjourned Thank you