As Trevor indicated, my comments here are very brief. I'm mostly here just to introduce the panel. I will say thank you all again for coming. Proxy advisory services kind of have a rapid and very niche issue, sometimes one of the wonkier topics. So we're happy to provide what I think is a really impressive panel here today to kind of unravel the mysterious nature of it for those of you that may not be quite familiar with what the proxy advisory industry of light or why it matters to you all as a policymaker. And also for those of you who work more closely in the corporate governance space, as is also an opportunity, particularly with the question and answer space, to get a little bit more in depth about what policymakers can do to respond to the system and some more of the details about how we got where we are. So I'll introduce the speakers from my immediate left to the right. Many of you are familiar with former SEC Commissioner Daniel Gallagher, who's confirmed by the Senate as Commissioner of the SEC in October 2011 and just recently stepped down from that position. Commissioner Gallagher has had the honor and privilege of serving in the agency in several capacities throughout his professional career, first joining the commission as an intern, and later serving as counsel to Paul S. Atkins, and later Chairman Christopher Crock, working on matters involving the Division of Enforcement, Division of Trading and Markets. Commissioner Gallagher is J.D. Magnatron-Loudy from the Catholic University of America, and also graduated Georgetown University with a degree in English. Next, James Glassman served between 2007 and 2009 as the U.S. Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Affairs as Chairman of the Broadcasting Board of Governors. In April 2012, he was appointed to the Investor Advisory Committee in the U.S. Security Exchange Commission, and he has a long career as a journalist and publisher serving as President of the Atlantic Monthly Publisher of the New Republic, Executive Vice President of U.S. News and World Report, Editor and Co-Owner of Roll Call, and Moderator of two weekly public affairs television programs on CBS and one on CNN. And J.W. Verrett, on the far left, is a senior scholar at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. From May 2013 through April 2015, many of you may have worked with J.W. other than as he was the Chief Economist here at the House of Angel Services Committee. As a member of the Mercatus Center's group, J.W. regularly briefs congressional staff, members of Congress, SEC commissioners, and other financial regulatory agencies on financial regulations topics. Assistant Professor of Law, George Mason University School of Law. His primary research interests are corporate governance and securities regulation and executive compensation. All three of these gentlemen have much longer bios I've given you in the abridged version, but we're happy to provide more information on all of their backgrounds, as well as some of the work that they've done in this field and the issues come up. So with that, I'll turn the presentation over to our panelists. They will each give a brief preparative mark section, after which I'll come back to the podium and we'll have a moderated Q&A session. So what are you thinking as they go through their comments, what you're interested in, what you'd like to hear more about? And then when I return to the podium, you can prepare for some of those questions. And I'll have some for the panelists as well. Is that it? Well, thanks. I'm going to start. I just want to thank Mercadis for the wonderful work that Mercadis does. And I had the privilege of doing two papers with Mercadis scholars with J.W. and then with Hester Pearce, who's sitting over there and who has a further honor, which is that she's been nominated as a commissioner on the FCC. So that's why she's being very quiet right now. Even though I guess this is the house and not the Senate, but still, right? News travels. So I want to provide a little bit of background and the two other panelists who are much more expert than I am on this subject will give you a lot of the details. But most Americans don't know what proxy advisory firms are. But the fact is they have more influence on corporate governance in America than any other institution. Except perhaps the SEC and I'm not even sure about that. Dan can tell us. Today enormous power over decisions about how businesses are organized, how they run, including policies on the environment, political contributions and executive pay is exercised by two firms that control by some estimates 90% of a single important market. One of those firms, ISS, controls more than half the market. The rise of these firms is a cautionary tale about the unintended consequences of regulation. So I hope we're going to be telling a story here that not only is directly about proxy advisors, but about regulation in general. So it started innocently enough when the Republican appointed chairman of the SEC, Harvey Pitt, proposed two rules whose purpose was quite limited. He was concerned that large institutions such as mutual funds and I'm going to use the term mutual funds throughout but understand there are other institutions involved here could have conflicts of interest when it came to proxy votes and proxy votes of course are voting shares that you own in this case on the behalf of the investors who are shareholders in the mutual fund itself on questions such as board membership and many others now. So the conflict comes when let's say a company like Fidelity might manage the pension funds of employees of say general electric and if a vote comes up that G's management thinks is important then Fidelity might feel like it might want to lean toward management to keep its pension contract. So that's the sort of conflict of interest that Harvey Pitt was worried about and the rule that was proposed and passed required mutual funds to declare specific guidelines for voting. It was very straightforward and it was backed by the free market members of the SEC including Paul Ackins, Dan's old boss and Cindy Glassman who may have the same last name as I do but is not related although she's a friend and Paul Ackins in fact stressed after this rule was passed that it quote did not impose a one size fits all requirement for written proxy voting procedures instead we left advisors that is to say the mutual funds and other institutions with a flexibility to craft suitable procedures well it didn't work out that way the SEC staff later interpreted the rule in such a way that led the mutual funds to assume less and not more responsibility for their votes in effect mutual funds outsourced their proxy decisions to ISS and another large firm Glass Lewis as a way of meeting the staff interpretation of the regulatory requirement and the key document which I think the other speakers will elaborate on but I just want to just introduce it anyway was a letter from the staff in response to a request from Egan Jones which is a small proxy advisory firm in May of 2004 and the staff told the firm that a mutual fund could meet its obligations by having a third party make its decisions in essence said the ruling the recommendations of a third party that is in fact independent of the mutual fund may cleanse the vote of the advisors conflict and I'm sure JW will tell you much more about that in addition mutual funds got the clear message that they had to vote on every one of the tens of thousands in some cases hundreds of thousands of proxy votes that they faced each year so here was a simple solution for the mutual funds pay the proxy advisors to tell us how to vote both the funds in the proxy firms were free from liability they seemed to be for bad choices except in the most extreme circumstance so it was a win-win for everybody except of course the companies or issuers as they're called and their shareholders and I would argue also for the US economy and the reason is that these proxy advisory firms which wield so much power make their decisions based on some vague sense of how they think businesses should be run a kind of moral sense of how businesses should conduct their business some would say that's ideological or political but it certainly is not the standard that they should make these decisions on which is increasing shareholder value and I would just point to one outrageous example which has now become quite famous of how the firms operate came when ISS recommended a no vote on re-electing Warren Buffett as a director of Coca-Cola because he had a conflict of interest. Berkshire Hathaway which is Warren Buffett's holding company owned Dairy Queen which was a customer of Coke never mind the fact that Buffett a man of great integrity I think we all would agree is probably the best investor of the last years and never mind the fact that Berkshire owned 10% of Coke and therefore had its interest closely aligned the problem was that these proxy advisory services make one size fits all kinds of decisions and just as a little bit more background the problem has been compounded as institutions like mutual funds account for more and more of total stock ownership in the United States and as the government has required companies to make proxy votes on more and more governance matters most conspicuously on executive pay the main culprit here is Dodd Frank as Stephen Bainbridge who writes a great blog and is professor of law at UCLA some of you may know him it seems fair to say that Dodd Frank did more to empower ISS than it does shareholders so I'm just going to I'm just going to wrap up here by just making a comment about economics the economy so there are studies which the JW and Dan I'm sure will talk about that examine this question of whether the recommendations of ISS and Glass Lewis actually enhance shareholder value and these studies show many of them show that they have not so if that is true then this single regulatory change with its unintended consequences is not merely concentrating power in the hands of these two firms but it's also harming the US economy so the real issue here is how can an institution make and I'm sorry let me just explain that so when shareholder value declines because advisory firms force one size fits all decisions on companies companies that are really in the best position to determine those decisions themselves who better is in a position than the Board of Directors to decide how much money a CEO should get I mean the Board of Directors wants to enhance the value of the company it's not going to overpay as a CEO or certainly not on purpose but what's happening is more and more these decisions are being made by these proxy advisory firms so when these one size fits all decisions are imposed on companies and necessarily and value declines and necessarily overall output or GDP of the nation declines and people are worse off so the real issue here is how can an institution make thousands of informed decisions on proxy matters that's a real important question and the solution however that the SEC staff is imposed is the wrong one the companies that have to pass on proxies of 30,000 or more companies literally hundreds of thousands of decisions simply shifts the problem in the wrong direction one conflict of interest is substituted for another and I'm sure that JW and Dan will talk about the conflicts of interest that these proxy advisory firms have so this problem has persisted for 11 years JW and I have offered solutions in our papers and I'm sure you're going to as Dan Gallacher as an SEC commissioner so you're going to now hear from I think JW next sorry JW next thank you very much I want to build on Jim's introduction to the proxy advisory industry and the regulation of that industry and just sort of provide a little bit go up a few thousand feet to an overview of the place of corporate voting in ISS and Glass Lewis's role in corporate voting to a broader mix of factors that help shareholders to constrain excesses by management and there's certainly plenty of excess by management that needs to be constrained by the market but I want to put shareholder voting in the context of the price system in the securities markets that helps to constrain managerial excess and I want to put it into the context of a concept called market for corporate control so first why so much emphasis in the last decade or so on shareholder voting Jim alluded to the fact that there's an increasing percentage of institutional ownership in publicly traded companies in the United States and those institutions are more active in voting than individual retail investors are and to understand why if you interview own stock think about the last time stock probably you have not taken the time to write out a proxy card but the institutional investors are more likely to particularly in the wake of the O3 regulations but there's a second reason and it's a more conflicted and a more politically motivated one and around the late 90s union investors union pension funds own a significant percentage of publicly traded shares sort of to realize that they could coordinate the broader goals of their organization in the same thinking that led Donald Trump to say in one of the first Republican debates hey when I have leverage I use it I think union pension funds understood that the leverage they obtained through their interests in publicly traded companies would allow them to press agendas that were part of the broader concern of their organizations and they did so in tandem with an increasing use of shareholder voting power by other institutional investors like state pension funds and who runs state pension funds elected officials and it tends to be that the elected officials of one party are more active in this process than others and so you can see in the agendas of these institutions a number of items that might run fairly parallel with items that would be important to disciplining managerial excess and related to financial performance but you also see a much broader set of issues that appear to me at least to be motivated by more political and more welfare ends that that are run completely counter to the shareholder wealth maximization focus of securities law 1933 and 1934 and this starts with a book called Working Capital that unions funded back in around 1999 and you can see in reference in a recent speech from Commissioner Pivovar where they laid out a number of different ideas one of them which made its way some 12 years later into the Don Frank Act the so-called CEO pay ratio voting democracy sound like great things they sound like very American things like apple pie but I would say that that analogy from democracy in the political sphere to democracy in the shareholder voting sphere is a severely constrained one what's the difference well the difference is shareholder voting is just a contractual item that shareholders are looking for in the charter of the corporation and so taking all the democratic values from the political system and trying to analogize them into the shareholder voting system has a number of unintended consequences and I think that's what we saw from the O3 rules out of the SEC much more powerful constraints I think on managerial excess would be the market for corporate control a free and open market for corporate control that I think is constrained by a law called the Williams Act in the 1960s and a more free and open market for information which is constrained I think by something called regulation FD that we can talk about I think right now the SEC which prides itself on the theory that sunshine is the best disinfectant that phrase is often repeated among securities professionals in fact in some ways inhibits natural market processes that would allow for more sunshine of malicious nefarious activity but to zero in particularly on the proxy access case those are a little bit of taste of the ideas that I think would be better I'm happy to talk to them toward the end but let me zero back in to the specifics about proxy advisors and the things that Jim was talking about one of the problems I have specifically with the guidance that tends to come out of proxy advisors and judging them not only structurally by how they're set up how their market is created by regulation which I think is a problem a letter from the department of labor issued actually the Reagan administration with the help of an assistant secretary of labor who went on to found ISS to sort of build on the market that he created by regulation is an issue I think that structural creation of a market through government regulation is a problem but I think you can also judge these institutions by the quality of the product that they put out I think a fair and apt description that Commissioner Gallagher has used and a lot of folks use is one size fits all a lot of the advice that comes out of ISS and Glass Lewis the two dominant proxy advisors is one size fits all guidance and they will certainly tell you if you have a chance to speak with them in the future that no that's not true it's not one size fits all it's uniquely tailored we tailor it to the 20,000 companies that we provide advice about our 200 people tailor it to the 20,000 companies which they must be the hardest working securities analyst and show business if they're able to do that but let me talk about a couple of specific examples where I think that's not true there are a number of items corporate governance reforms that are hotly contested in the empirical finance literature I say hotly contested it's not like WWF I mean it's you know numbers and very wonky academics fairly non-partisan academics I mean people who are publishing in Journal of Finance peer-reviewed journals and local buyers one way or the other like those of us who worked on the house might have for a political party but very hotly contested empirical questions in which I think ISS and Glass Lewis' recommendation lean only in one direction proxy access they almost universally recommend proposals to institute proxy access making it easier for shareholders many of whom are conflicted to put their nominees under the company proxy for free rather than having to pay their own way destaggering the board so some boards of directors are kind of like the senate a third of the members go up every year rather than the whole board some are like the house being the house guy I think the house model is probably pretty good but companies tend to disagree sort of 50-50 on which model works best but ISS and Glass Lewis take a pretty clear one size fits all solution that leans toward board destaggering they want all the directors up every year the empirical literature is mixed at best on this question and they mandate an annual say-on-pay vote rather than a try-annual say-on-pay vote sort of pretend advisory vote on shareholder pay that the Dodd-Frank Act requires so it allows you to choose as a board one, two, or three year terms of of revoting and the the proxy advisors say it has to be one year now there's literally no evidence suggesting any benefit to a one year annual requirement but that's the way they work another piece of the securities law architecture you have to think about when you think about proxy advisors is a system called 14A8 the 14A8 shareholder proposal process what is that well it's a process whereby currently before this rule previously shareholders could put an idea up for a vote of the other shareholders and say you know what I want to change the charter of the company I want to change the structure of the board and they could send out the shareholder voting cards to the shareholders and they could win but they had to pay for it themselves 14A8 says the company should subsidize individual shareholders putting ideas onto the company proxy and it can take a very low threshold of ownership you only have to own about $2,000 worth of the company shares to do this $2,000 worth of shares a very small percentage of the company shares so what is the quality of these proposals well a few of them are high quality but I would say the overwhelming majority of them represent the kind of quality that you see in public comments on blogs on the internet I mean think about the worst examples of comments you've seen in blogs on the internet that's the kind of stuff companies often get on their proxy statements and these are things that ISS and Glass Lewis will often provide voting recommendations about you see a second way in which an artificial market is created by the government an artificial market that this duopoly enjoys access to Jim mentioned conflicts of interest there's a very important conflict of interest in this space that I would urge your consideration of ISS the dominant player in this space provides advice to investors and says vote this way vote that way on this proposal but they do a second line business that actually represents a small percentage of the revenue I understand represents a large percentage of their profits because it's low expense business which is they'll go to companies the targets of these votes and they'll say we have some advice for you about what you should do to change your company structure now they will say the part of our operation that advises companies about how to get a better recommendation from us is separate and apart from the part of our organization that advises investors about how they should vote in these company elections and proxy contests they say that I'm sure they try but the institutional investor community has been very skeptical of conflicts of interest in a lot of other areas auditors used to do the same thing with a lot of consulting services and the pension funds and the organizations of institutional investors all said no we don't believe that they can police those conflicts conflicts prohibited by law in Sorbet and Zoxley when these conflicts became apparent with respect to investment analysts the institutional investor community said we don't trust them we need some clear rules out of an AG settlement to police these conflicts but here where institutional investors and the union pension funds in that community see and recognize a clear conflict of interest with their ally their position is we don't really see that as a problem I think that inconsistency points to to further examination of those conflicts of interest I think they're very serious and I wouldn't be as concerned about them if the market for these services wasn't created by regulation but the fact is that it is in the Avon letter and in the 14A process I want to talk real quick about the guidance that Commissioner Gallagher was such an ardent fighter for I mean I think when Jim when we did our first paper on proxy advisors and the problems in that space I would have thought it was a you know it was a quixotic quest we weren't going to get anywhere I just thought it's be fun to write a paper with Jim Glassman so I'll do that and it turned out I mean because of Commissioner Gallagher's work we got guidance out of the SEC that took a big hit in the right direction and so I want to commend that I think that's terrific some particular things out of that guidance the SEC did and I think the house I want to credit the House Financial Services Committee too Chairman Garrett did a lot of work in oversight of this issue first the guidance says that companies can conduct sampling to make sure that there there's compliance with the prior rules from O3 I think that's good that's certainly the lower cost for institutional investors and sampling methodology so well accepted in you know econometrics there's a recognition in that guidance of the right of mutual funds to decide to just vote with management if they feel like there are no red flags indicating a problem I think that was very important and we mentioned that Jim and I mentioned that in our papers I'm glad that made its way into the SEC's guidance and there's some requirements about disclosure of the conflict of interest that Jim and I were talking about I think that's all terrific that's all to the good concerns I have about how we just haven't gone far enough first of all it's staff level guidance I'd feel a lot better if it was an SEC level commission level interpretive release I'd feel even better if it was statutory but I'd prefer it to be at least an interpretive release at the full commission level I'm concerned about the fact that it only applies to entities regulated by the SEC and not those regulated by the Department of Labor I'm concerned about the fact that the Avon letter is still out there requiring ERISA fiduciaries to vote even if it doesn't make sense to them for them to vote and I'm concerned about the 14A8 process that creates this artificial market a few other concerns and ideas about things we should do again the Williams Act and Reg FD and 14A8 are all problems I'd like to see some specific recognition that the Egan Jones letter is no longer a good law I would have hoped I've seen that in the guidance it didn't make its way in there let me just stop there turn it over to Commissioner Gallagher and looking forward to talking to all of you in the Q&A former Commissioner Gallagher I meant to note never to follow Professor Barrett and all again I'm sorry how ineligible I am or how at the point you are I'm suffering a little cold here so I'm going to try to get it short it's a real honor first of all to be here thanks to Mercatus for inviting me thanks for you guys showing up this is a really important issue and I wanted to pivot off the first two sets of remarks to kind of figure how I would add value here the value I can add for you is to explain to you why you need to care about this issue because it really does sound so picky and so discreet compared to all of the other things that you have to deal with in your day-to-day job than your bosses have to deal with and I will tell you coming into the SEC in November of 2011 right a year or so after Dodd-Frank the last thing in the world I thought I would be focusing on in fact I didn't even know what a proxy advisory firm was when I came back as a commissioner so to think that I would come in and need to focus so much of my attention and time and energies on this issue really was surprising to me and let me tell you why this is the same conversation I'll tell you about a little conversation I had with the CEO of one of the proxy advisory firms after about three or four speeches I gave on the same subject and most of you who read or followed my speeches over my four year term know that I rarely ever gave the same speech or talked about the same issue twice and there are a couple exceptions one of them being proxy advisory firms and that prompted the CEO to ask for a meeting with me come in very polite but he started the meeting by asking me why in the world can I ask you are you so intensely focused on this issue and my response to him was because because I've gotten more complaints about you and your industry as an SEC commissioner than anything else since I've walked in this door and that is really think about it post Dodd Frank post financial crisis the stream of complaints I was getting from the issuer community from the advisor community from trade groups I had CEOs fly in to Washington to meet with me one on one after they saw my remarks in this space it was an open and obvious issue for the commission to address I still believe it's an open and obvious issue for you and your bosses to address I don't believe despite some of the politics that surround this issue given some of the voting recommendations and as professor Varret mentioned how partisan sometimes they may seem to the other party I don't think this is a partisan issue this is about good government this is about an industry that was as professor Varret said created by regulation if you go back to the Avalon letter of 88 which said if you advise on Orissa assets you have to vote so every vote you have to to be consistent with your fiduciary duty that was a big deal that was a shot heard around the world and in 2003 when the SEC came out and talked about it was a really simple rule and I think commissioner Atkins got it right in his remarks at the time on its face was a free market solution have policies and procedures to deal with the conflict surrounding voting but a lot of folks in this community especially the proxy advisory firms who wanted it to be so thought this was the SEC's version of the Avalon letter now the SEC is mandating that you vote and that was actually incorrect that was one of the main issues we took on in SLB 20 which is the guidance that came out of June last year from the staff that professor Varret mentioned and so this notion coming from Avalon put into the 2003 rule that you need to vote every vote every share was huge but also within that rule text itself putting aside the no action letters that were mentioned to ISS and Egan Jones the rule text itself said if there is a conflict the advisor can prove to the SEC that the vote was un-conflicted by the use of an independent third party that magic language is actually in the rule so when we had our own proxy advisory round table in December of 2013 there was a healthy amount of debate about whether the no action letters were the original sin or the rule the truth is it doesn't really matter you had a rule that basically implied the use of an independent third party would cleanse you of a conflict that otherwise would put you in really deep trouble both under Orissa I would say and the federal securities laws and then you followed it with two new action letters one to ISS itself saying don't worry if you use a proxy advisory firm that is the independent third party we were talking about if you have a conflict as an advisor this is going to cleanse your hands I think is the phrase they used and then a second letter to Sean Egan's firm Egan Jones saying oh yeah and if you're the proxy advisory firm and you're providing advice and you're also if you have ancillary business lines right so if you actually do corporate consulting work for the issuer that you're rating and that advisors are relying on your recommendation for that's not a conflict horrifying horrifying right so that's 2003 and 2004 2006 you have the SEC compensation rules come out which of course brings up a whole lot more data and votes for the advisors you have Dodd-Frank with say on pay say on frequency you have as Professor Varrette said the 14-a-8 process which by the way I just issued a paper at WLF saying the SEC should get out of the business of running 14-a-8 and I mean it sincerely all of these numbers the number of votes is going up dramatically a thousand plus percent in the last 10-15 years using rough numbers and you know at the same time the proxy advisory firms have become more and more entrenched the numbers are up the number of retail investors are down these advisors need to rely on somebody to do some of the work unless of course they can do it themselves and that's why we needed in 2014 a staff legal bulletin 20 and that's why for years four years I focused intently on this proxy advisory firm issue it goes to the very core of corporate governance in the United States which is unfortunate in many ways because as you guys all know those of you who went to law school if not you know corporate governance is a creature of state law in the United States it's not a federal system nor should it be but the use of these rules that I just mentioned Professor Varrette mentioned plus the role of the proxy advisory firms means that the federal government has gotten further and further entrenched into corporate governance and of course the proxy advisory firm being the key component of this new structure is completely unregulated right now I'm not one for needless regulation but when I look at the analogy the main analogy between the proxy advisory firm and the credit rating agencies the credit rating agencies had exactly the same privileged perch within the federal securities laws as the proxy advisory firms they basically were inserted by legislation by rule into so many places the NRSRO the nationally recognized statistical rating organization that their opinions became the law and that didn't work out so well in 2008 Congress though in 2006 some people forget actually had a very bipartisan statute the credit rating agency reform act of 2006 to get at this very issue they said we can't have in the case of credit rating agencies three firms controlling 98% of the market they're not registered they're not examined they have conflicts they're all these problems and they have this privileged perch so let's get at it by requiring them to register prohibiting conflicts mandating disclosure of conflicts it was actually in many ways a very light-touch piece of legislation but very intrusive into the rating agency industry so there Congress took note I'll point out to you of a very similar issue and acted now in Dodd-Frank of course in Title IX the Congress acted a whole lot more with respect to rating agencies and we could debate that separately I think a lot of that stuff was silly but here you have the same thing you have two firms controlling 90 plus percent of the industry they can control it because they've been baked in through SEC rules through the Avon letter through these no action letters the staff guidance that came out in 2014 first I'll point out I totally agree that it should have been commission level or even statutory would be great I will also caution you though in this day and age sometimes staff guidance is better than commission guidance beware what you ask for having lost 16, 3, 2 votes in 4 years at the commission you might not want that 3, 2 vote for proxy advisor guidance that's fair enough that would be fine with me but the staff guidance was as good as we could get it took and I'll be totally candid with you guys I took my entire focus in 2014 it took me telling the chairman of the SEC that this was one of two issues this and reg a under the jobs act that were important to me in the year of 2014 and I think she got it there was no running and no hiding on this issue we were going to have to do something and I appreciate that she did prioritize it and I appreciate the substance that came out as I said in my WLF paper on this very topic though I'm not convinced that SLB 20 is the answer I think there's some really important things that were done in the staff guidance you know clarifying that you don't have to vote every vote every share that you can prearrange with your clients clarifying that these conflicts that proxy advisory firms have have to be disclosed hugely important and I think it'll take a little bit of time for the changes under this staff guidance to take control but I don't think that means that you here can just forget about this issue I think it's an issue of national priority to this day if I were you I'd want to know from the SEC how did the guidance work what are they finding the office of compliance inspections and examinations at the SEC put out a notice this year saying they were going to examine investment advisors for how they're using this guidance SLB 20 because the advisors were put on notice you're a fiduciary you can't remotely rely you have to do more than rely on ISS or Glass Lewis so the examiners are going to be in there looking to see what is being done and if you're a smaller medium size advisor I have to tell you at some point you've got to weigh the costs and benefits you're running a little index fund who really cares about the votes my clients don't care about the vote why don't I just put in my prospectus a notice to them that says I'm just going to vote with management if you come and invest in my fund we're voting with management you have some sort of inclination in another direction why don't you just say we're voting with cowpers right pick whatever you want you can even say you're not going to vote and I don't think a lot of people would do that because there's been so much made about the fiduciary duty for voting but I think as a small medium size advisor that's eventually going to have to be the way it works because they're facing otherwise a breach of their fiduciary duty that's been made clear by the staff guidance and so it might take some time but I think policymakers here more than the SEC should be inclined right now to continue to be vigilant on this and determine is it time to think again potentially about a statute like the credit agency reform act of 2006 with that I'll turn it back I guess for some questions thanks


. But just since it's a fresh box, here's the list right there. That's the NT case. We're gonna do that in a different video. Let's see what we got in here. Auto? I don't think so. It's hoping for an auto. And we've got a rookie Darwin Thompson, 16 out of 99. Joanne Winfrey and Amigo Harbin Jr. The rookie card. Chief's edition, going to John. And so will that Darwin Thompson. Cracked ice.  Let's gather everybody's names one through 32 and everyone in between. New dice, new list, and fingers crossed, everybody's just the top three. That's it. Top three after two and a four, six times. One, two, three, four, five, and fingers crossed six in the final time. So after six, so from four on down, four through 32 is sad times. The saddest spot of all, I think, spot four, just because Brian, very close, but just not quite. But I appreciate you giving it a go. Appreciate everybody giving it a go. But only the top three can go into the next randomizer after six and that's gonna be John Jackson. Conrad Michael P. Congrats to the top three after six. We'll see you in the next randomizer video. Jaspy'scasebrace.com, bye-bye. Put prism 83 next to your names when we run the next randomizer. I would have felt bad if there was zero, but at least there was one, John. One better than none. For Jaspy'scasebrace.com, coming at you with a giant random number block randomizer for 2022 National Treasures Football, pick your team at nine. Featuring 17 teams, a little over half the league. All right there, that's how it works. I think everyone here should be familiar with it, right? Matthew, Ron, Ken, John, Michael, Conrad, John again. They know. Remember, zero gets any and all redemptions, even if it's a one of one redemption, any non. I think every card's numbered, so we don't have to worry about that part. All right, well thank you. Thanks to the people who bought their spots straight up, and congrats again to the people who bought their spots in the filler for this filler. There are the numbers right there. Let's roll it, randomize names and numbers, six and a one, seven times each. One, two, three, four, five, six, and seventh and final time. Matthew, down to John, six and a one, seven times for the numbers. One, two, three, four, five, six, and seventh and final time. After seven, we've got nine, down to two. All right, Matthew with nine, Michael with one, Conrad with seven, Kenneth with five, Ron with four, John with three, Matthew with eight, John with six, zero and two. Let's order this numerically here. And remember, this random number block is gonna feature this giant group of teams right there. Let's also put that on the spreadsheet. All right, there you have it. I'm Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com. We'll see you in the next video for that NT break. Bye-bye. All right, done and done. All right, so give me a minute to put all this stuff away here, and we'll get that NT break going shortly. I gotta put away this pack break. I'm gonna set up the team list. I'm gonna pull up a checklist. I need that. Really quick and then we'll get this going. Let's see what we can do here. There's always redemptions. Always redemptions, John. Or who knows, every card on that list could be 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 out of whatever, 110 out of whatever. All right, good luck. Here we go. Hi everyone, Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com coming at you with 2022 Panini National Treasures Football. Pick your team and number nine. Number nine, number nine, number nine. All right, big thanks to the people who bought their spots straight up. Appreciate you. Ed, you ended up with last spot, Mojo, with the Cowboys. Thanks everyone who got their team straight up. Appreciate you. We also pulled the remainder of the teams and turned them into a serial number break, what we call a random number block randomizer. So you get a block of numbers for those teams and pick your team nine. So I'm gonna get a whole block of numbers across all these teams. So it's just a different level of risk. We've kind of mixed it up a little bit there. All right, now here is the case of NT football. It's the last one we have in the store. I don't think I saw any more. We may get some more, but I can't assure you that they'll be at the same price. Love this stuff. Good luck everybody. Thank you for getting in, appreciate you. We'll also use this Jaspie's branded blank card right here to put right on top there and slow play the hits. And you can see on the top camera the whole stack of cards up there. All right, first out of the gate, 50 out of 50. It's Jalen Hertz, modern masters card. That will be for the Eagles. That's the Eagles number block. So that goes to, if you're not familiar with it, that goes by that digit right there. That'll go to zero. That's gonna be for John Jackson at a number zero. Philadelphia zero. All right, next up is Davis Mills, 17 out of 49. That's gonna be for the Texans. That's gonna go to Steve Locke in Houston. Grab two cards here. He's a Darren Waller Raiders edition 79 out of 99. That's Ryan Gamsby and my Raiders. Really like Darren Waller, but some injury issues. But I hope he does well. 58 out of 99, just kidding. Dobbins, Sunday Treasures dual rally. J.K. Dobbins is a number block team. So that's gonna go to Baltimore eight, Matthew Sharap. Here comes McBride, two color, dual rally. For the Cardinals, that's a number block team. And that is 42, kind of hard to see the number, but it's 42 out of 49. Arizona two will be for John Jackson. Travis Kelsey, eight out of 49. Nice patch there. Chiefs are also a number block team. So that goes to Kansas City eight, it'll be for Matthew. We got 22 out of 25, Malcolm Rodriguez. Emrod, that's how he signs it. Detroit, random number block. Detroit two, John. 18 out of 25, Antonio Freeman. Hans, got the Packers straight up. And we got Zemir White, RPA 53 out of 99.  Lakers, Raiders. Ryan Gansy with my Raiders. And back here is, oh, Nike Swoosh, Brock Purdy. It's a Brock party, ladies and gentlemen. Who has the Niners? Are the Niners a number block team? No, the Niners are picked up straight up by Sean Matic. Sean. All aboard the Big Hit Express. Welcome, Sean. It's a good time to get this. Looks like he's healthy. Nothing wrong with that elbow. Surgery went fine. It's QB1. Sam Darnold's his backup. Season around the corner. And it's nice. All right, next box.  Let's keep going. Ooh, it looks like we got a printing plate. Ryan, there you can see the rounded corners. You see the shadow right there. The printing plate, a book on the bottom. All right, we got Jim Otto. All right, he's 51 out of 99 for the Raiders. Ryan with my Raiders. Old school Raider. If your name's all, you gotta rock the double zero, right? I feel like you have to. Oh, another Raider. Derek Carr, 16 out of 36. 36? 35. I think he's gonna do well in the Saints Union. It looks weird in the Saints Union form, but I think he's gonna do well down there. 22 out of 49, Kirk Cousins. You like that? That's gonna be for In Koo. In Koo in Minnesota. Excuse me, I still need to watch that quarterbacks show on Netflix, on the flicks. 14 out of 25, the opera singer, Justin Tucker, going to the Raiders. Purplebirds, number four, Ferran. Well, who's the jury's out on who? We got in return of the Mac, 45 out of 99, Mac Jones. At riots, it's gonna go to Hyderic. Oh, on Derek Carr? Well, he's gonna be on a better team than he was before. There's Randall Cobb, one of one. Two-color jersey, plate. Randall, corn on the cob. I think Hans got the packer straight up, he did. Hans, all aboard, the bigot Express. Woo-hoo. Three out of 35, Christian Harris. That's gonna go to Steve and the Teh Huns. We got some Cowboys, 25 out of 25, Charles Haley, a little last fought mojo, action for Ed. 70% of the time, last fought mojo hits 100% of the time. We got another Xamir White RPA, Silver and Black Patch on card autograph, 12 out of 35, Ryan Gamsey with my greatest. Xamir White's time to shine. The book is, is, Malik Willis. Nice, 85 out of 99, rookie first edition signatures. Woo, nice patch, nice auto. What's his future gonna be here? That goes to Tennessee Five. Tennessee Five, Kenneth with Tennessee Five. All right, two boxes to go. Yeah, Eric said we wanna see him as a starter. That's what Eric Houston's saying. Yeah, I mean, I could see, I could see, you know, Tannehill finishing out whatever contract he has, and then what, it's Will Leviss and Malik Willis to just battle it out and see who, who number one's gonna be. Lights, Camara, action, 52 out of 99. Matthew with the Saints. More Saints, Drew Brees, one out of 10. I think Drew Brees is in the booth now, right? Is he doing some broadcasting work? I feel like he was saying, he was on, I was listening to him on a preseason game. Remember that famous picture after the Super Bowl or he's holding his little baby headphones on or anything? Yeah, that baby is now in high school. So think about that, how weird is that? Framed fabric, 44 out of 49. Adrian Amos for Hans and the Packers. Devonta Smith, 41 out of 49. Nice patch there. That's gonna go to the Fly Eagles Fly. That'll be for Eagles Philadelphia one. That'll be for Michael. Well, I mean, if you're comparing Drew Brees to Derek Carr, that's folly. And then if you're comparing Derek Carr to James Winston or whatever quarterback you guys had last year, the Saints had last year, that's a different story. 51 out of 99, Michael Pittman Jr. Colts, Colts one, Michael P with Michael Pittman. 29 out of 35, Brees Hall. Jets, Jets are a number block team. Jets nine, that's for Matthew, Matthew S. Jerome Ford, five out of 49. Cleveland, this is for you. Cleveland five, Kenneth with Cleveland five. There you go, MH, what's going on? And we got Randall Cunningham, eight out of 10. They should bring that old eagle, Kelly Green back. What do you think Eagles fans? That's their main uniform. Philadelphia eight is gonna be four for Matthew S. We got a cowboy, one out of 49. Jalen Tolver, another one for last spot Mojo for Ed. Kinda see the purple foil there against that Cowboys Navy blue. All right, the final one here is, ooh, an RPA, dual relic, NFL gear dual relic and autograph George Pickens. Meet George Pickens. That's gonna be for Sean Maddock. Picked up the Steelers straight up. Final box, good luck. Fingers crossed everybody, thanks for getting in. Appreciate you. All right, 96 out of 99, Austin Eckler. Chargers are a number block team. So that goes to Chargers six, it'll be for John. This is Ozzie Newsom, 44 out of 49. Cleveland four, Ron with the number four. Got Cooper Cup, 99 out of 99. Aaron with the Rams. Five out of 10, Carl Mecklenburg, heirlooms. It's for Denver, that's gonna go to Hans and the Denver Broncos. There's some Mack Jones, 62 out of 99. Return of the Mack, hi there with that one.  Here's Nick Chubb, 45 out of 49, treasured patches. Cleveland five is gonna be for Kenneth. Cleveland, this is for you. Next up, we're getting near the end. Notable nicknames, John Riggins, Diesel. 12 out of 49, Diesel. Commanders are a number block team. So Commanders two will be for John. Here's still the Redskins in his day. All right, we got two more and then a book. We got Devin McCourtney, 29 out of 99 for the Patriots. Hi there, with that one. Next one is a Cooper Cup autograph for Aaron, nine out of 10. All right, nice. And the book, good luck everybody. There's gonna be another one of those, the Millic Willis ones. Yeah, it's a mod. You know who that is. Saus, Gardner, one out of two. Jets are a random number block team. That goes to Jets one. That's for you, Michael P. Another Nike swoosh auto. Your defensive rookie of the year. Michael, all aboard, the big hit express. Woo-hoo. Man, what a break. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks everybody for getting this going, for filling this break up. We had that with the Brock Purdy earlier, among other nice hits in this one. Appreciate everybody getting into this NT. Keep your eye for more on Jaspy's casewrakes.com and I'll see you next time for the next break. Bye-bye. Wow, thanks everybody. Let me snap some pictures of those. Those two hits. I don't know how to shorten this even more than this. There you go. Got to clickbait that Brock. Saus, Nike swoosh auto. People don't think it's a dual auto, but they'll figure it out. Real nice. No worries, Michael. Thanks for getting in. Appreciate you. Careful with this, snap a picture of this. Before I tuck this away. NT has national treasures, flawless, those sorts of breaks, really have a knack for, really have a knack for breaking hearts. Making hearts, breaking hearts. But hey, listen, we'll get them next time. Thank you for trying. Yeah, we'll try to make it up to you in a while. Listen, I'll be honest with you, I'm pretty sure Shawn Matic, if it makes you feel any better, John, I'm sure Shawn Matic has gone through and purchased the Niners multiple times with, at what, $13, $1400 five and got nothing and finally stumbled into something. A really nice something, so. Well, I have to check this microphone here, hang on a second, I'm gonna mute really quick. All right, I'm back. And Michael P, who's a, masquerading as a lawyer tonight, gets the last pot mojo and I think that's gonna be the last break of the night. I know Jason's gotta do some, Jason's gotta do some label printing and some recapping, September, unless it gets pushed back. Jason Jassy will be breaking here tomorrow, pretty sure. So we're actually meeting with some fanatics engineers tomorrow to talk to them about some stuff. And I mean, they're working on it, but I will reiterate to them that we do, we do want some sort of Android version available as soon as possible. Yeah, well, I think we're lucky that we're lucky to have the fanatics offices and the fanatics live offices or one of their offices. I think they have an East New York one and then they have one in LA. And they've been planning this for a little while. So we've been talking with them for a while. I've been talking to everybody, but just out of sheer convenience, they've been able to poke their heads in and hang out and see how we stream and how we do things and blah, blah, blah, blah. So we're in a unique position to have them right in our backyards, which is nice. And my guess is that most of the stuff that we want is probably most of stuff other group breakers want as well. And they obviously talk to the other people on fanatics live and they're still on a beta version, of the fanatics live app, but they're working on it. The Panini MBA situation, are you talking about the, did you mean NFL? Is there an MBA situation now? Let me actually grab a container to put all the hits and then we'll get this break going. I think we're ready to go here. All right, good luck everybody. Are you talking about the licensing contract? With this final break in here, maybe. I'll find out. Hi everyone, Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com coming at you with a full case break of the brand new 2023 Tops Pristine Baseball, eight box. Pick your team number two from jaspyscasebreaks.com, all card ship. You remember the pristine with the packs on, packs on packs, that's what we got going on here. Big thanks to this group for making it happen. Appreciate it. Thanks for getting in. No fillers ever. We just did this straight up, which I appreciate. And it was Michael with Last Bottom Mojo with the Rates. All right, this kind of unwieldy, awkward size case is over here. This we're gonna do tomorrow. That's the luminance. This is our last break of the night, boys and girls. This does take a little bit of time. And Jason is gonna leave this for recaps from the other stream. I think everyone can see this case happening on my face camera right here. It's eight. There's just some extra packaging paper right there. Thanks everybody. So we were talking a little bit about licensing before this. Obviously can't avoid that topic around the hobby. Yeah, what are the implications of it? Well, there are already in some kind of lawsuit. Fanatics and Panini are battling in courts already. Probably a Delaware court, yeah. So there's already that. And I'm sure there's some public information there. It seems to me that Fanatics had somehow convinced the NFL Players Association, the union, to terminate their licensing agreement with the early. A few years, couple years early, few years early, something like that. What are the implications of that? I don't know. Obviously we can only speculate. I suppose something would have to do with whether the money was paid up front or not. I doubt the money was paid up front. So I would imagine that I guess Panini just doesn't have to pay the remainder of the licensing fee, whatever it was, divided by however many years it was, however that was negotiated. I guess something in the contract must have also, a stipulator suggested that the NFLPA could do that without legal ramifications, otherwise they probably wouldn't do it. So they must have had an out, or maybe there was like, someone made this joke last night, like a mobile carrier, maybe there was an early termination fee. Perhaps there was something in the language there, so it wouldn't be interesting to see how this world works. Like what's the secret world of bidding for a license, a license for anything? I don't know if there's like a legal requirement to make bids public, so there could be a bidding war or whatever. I suppose it's like a company that can accept whatever contractor they wanna work with, are they required to, some companies are required to get multiple bids, but maybe the NFLPA was just like, nah, we'd like to see it. We'll go with it. Maybe they're not subject to those requirements. Ooh, nice Mike Trout, oh snap! Die cut. Goes to Kenneth and the Angels. There's a chance that those can be autographed too. I think I might have seen one down there. I don't know if it's autographed or not, we'll find out. So we'll see what happens. Right now it's all just what we're doing, just speculating, guessing what's gonna happen. We don't know what, there's a nice 18 out of 25 swings of summer. Fernando Dates Jr., that goes to Walter and the Padres. So yeah, the licensing world is interesting. Well, how do the bids for TV licenses work?  You know, is it in the NFL's best interest to put a bidding, like put an auction out there somehow? There's David Bedner for the Pirates 99. Teosca Hernandez for the Mariners, that's to 75. Brendan Crawford to 50. And then behind Jonathan India is Jersey and Otto Corbin Burns around the Diamond Jersey and Otto. Nice one for the Brew Crew, Brian Kay. Brian with the Brewers, breaking news, John saying Elon Musk just bought Panini. And then renamed it Panini X. 50 out of 50, Corey Seeger for the Rangers. We got Framber Valdez for the Astros, that'll be for Howard. We got Kyle Stowers, rookie autograph for Tristan and the Orioles, 72 out of 75, Tristan. We got another blue, Nestor Cortez to 75 for the Yankees. It's gonna be for Russell. We got, this is also for you Russ, Mariano Rivera. And a Ronald Aconia Jr., oh snap! Die-Cut Autograph, Matt Lieber with that one. Box one, box two. Eric Houston always thought Under Armour would get NFL for uniforms. Who is it now? Do they do each team, does each team negotiate their Jersey licenses, or is it League-wide, or did Nike buy like the League-wide rights to design all the jerseys for all the teams? There aren't more cards. So sometimes the card can slip down here and then the crimping machine will come and crimp that and catch some cards in there. I'm surprised by that. It's only my second case, but maybe it had to happen. Breaking news, Elon Musk just bought an Under Armour. Local remain unseen. They'll just be Under X, Twitter X, SpaceX, Under X, Tesla X, Aaron Judge, oh snap! Die-Cut for the Yankees. That'll be for us three homers tonight. I don't know what's going on with this, but Elon was supposed to build what he called, I don't know if people remember this, what he called hyper-towns here in Los Angeles. I think he got, I think it's kind of happening. This DL Hall, Purple, Byron Bucks and Gold, and Hideki Matsui, Blue for Russell, and that's the 75. Bucks and for the Twins will go to Nestor, DL Hall to 99. Well, I think there's, I think a mile of tunnel has been built. I don't think it goes anywhere though. I think it's just for testing. And around the diamond jersey, an auto berry larkin. Nice one for Michael and the Reds, Michael S. Right, it's calling right. It's a clever name, a boring company. But it was supposed to, he had a number, yeah, I think he had an idea for one underneath the strip in Vegas to move people around. His idea for LA was to have a hyper-loop to like Dodger Stadium to downtown LA to get people there. Corbin Burns to 75, which I thought was actually a very interesting idea, but I don't know where it's at right now. Juan Gonzalez, George Kirby. Nice autograph for the Mariners, Matt Lieber. And we got Tony Gonslund for my Dodgers, three out of 15, rough season for Tony, just been battling injuries all year long. Ed Pete with my Dodgers. We got Jock Peterson, former Dodger for the Giants that's gonna go to Aida and for the fish, Sandy Alcantara. That's right, Eric, you got it. It's a play on words. The one in Vegas was functioning, I thought. No, none of those are functioning. They buried the business plan, nice one. They got bored. Elon got bored with a boring company. No, I think as far as, I think they'd have some, but they haven't even figured out how they want to do.  That was maybe magnetized. Then I think they found that it was too expensive. And so now it's only Teslas on a, following a predetermined path, electronically or magnetically or whatever, that'll shoot the car through this loop to your final destination or something like that. Which obviously, was it autonomous Teslas? Maybe it was autonomous ones that'll let you shoot through there, but ultimately that kind of defeats the purpose of some sort of public transportation because it's not, it's only for Teslas. Not for the public. So, I'm not sure. Oh boy, Duncan, it is way too early for come on Rockies. Give me something here. We are one, two, three, four, five, seven boxes away. We're only, we got a ways to go. We got 45 minutes, 45 more minutes left. Now to play to the whistle. You can start worrying when we're around here. Oh, you're saying you got a feelings or something like that. There's a link. Well, you can't drop links in the chat. I mean, I don't think it's, I don't think the public can use it though. I think there are many videos, even of the loop in LA which has, which they've been testing, but no one from the public can actually use it. I think that should go for the same in the one in Vegas. They do need a train from Vegas that they are building one, a company called Brightline, I want to say, that built a high speed rail that's connecting places in Florida and somewhere along the eastern seaboard, but they are building it.  You're all right, for now. But the Vegas to LA train technically won't start in LA, but you could get to it by public transportation. There's Michael Harris to 25. Basically, you can take the metro link to wherever this high speed rail station is gonna be in San Bernardino.  All the way to, I think I found out that the station is supposed to be the terminus on the Vegas side will be in some empty lot across the street from the mall near the airport. I think like the South outlets or something like that. I go to the movie theaters there when I'm out there. Yeah, the Las Vegas South premium outlets to the West of Las Vegas Boulevard, there's just a bunch of empty, just tons of empty space there. I think that's where they're building the terminus. It's Matthew Libertor, Kyle Tucker, blue to 75. I think if all goes according to plan should be done by 2027, 2028 around there. It's Ezekiel Tovar 25, Duncan of the Rockies. And there's Oswald Paraza. I'm pretty sure, was it him? I think he got called up recently. He's one of their highly-tied prospects. They got an Oswald and an Oswaldo or a Oswald, some two guys with similar names. Out of 50, that goes to Russ and the Yankees. Tyler O'Neill, Cardinals, it's gonna be for Frank. We got Jordon Alvarez, going, going, gone autograph. 35 out of 75. Did he, did I overhear on MLB network that he went going, going, gone? Or no, I think it was Adam DeVall maybe who went going, going, gone. Anyway, and we got Francisco Alvarez to 15. Nice, that goes to Howard and the Metz. Juan Soto for the Padres, that's for Walter. Nice Corey Seater for Texas. That'll be for Jeremy, Jeremy Olson with that one. And we got Jose Ramirez Orange to 25, nice. You do a recap a little bit later but I'm gonna take a build myself a little bit there. Duncan is the farm system in baseball like your second string player in rookies, no. It's more think of it as an academy in soccer terms. Matt Lieber has the braids. So you can consider the farm system in America it is like an academy or developmental league or something like that, yeah. Although sometimes they'll use it like some if a regular gets injured and they need, they need him to get some starts. Yeah, I got to, I got to Google my brain right here, Duncan, but yeah, sometimes they'll send guys who are injured that they'd need a couple rehab starts or something like that. I guess sometimes they'll do that with first team players in soccer, right? So they'll have them play with like the under 21s or something like that for a match just to get some match fitness. That happens every once in a while. But yeah, mostly developmental league.  Nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. But instead of going by that, I mean, you can be whatever age and be at a number of different levels. But yeah, like I said, the succinct version is, it's the academy system. Yeah, the Padres have moved that Ethan Salah on their top cross so it's up to double A already. So it's like this cards in these packs are usually just non numbered with some inserts. I guess I could breeze through these a little bit more quickly. These where we have, this is where we have numbered cards. It's just in Verlander to 99 for the Mets. Frank Thomas to 75, that is for Nestor. And Nestor, she'll like it too. That particular card. Martin Perez, eight out of 25. Also for the Rangers. All right, behind Aaron Nola, we've got around the diamond, relic and autograph, Scott Rowland. Piece of the lumber and the autograph. And that is for, that is Cardinals, Scott Rowland. And that is also Hall of Famer, Scott Rowland. This here is Hall of Famer. Hall of Famer this year. Sixth ballot, 76.3% of the vote. Is he a Hall of Famer? I mean, he is, should he be? We got Bubba Thomas for the Rangers. I think these are like unstirculated cards or something like that that end up in here, something like that. We got Steve Garvey. Bubba Thompson goes to Texas. That'll be Jeremy Olson. Steve Garvey goes to my Dodgers. That'll be for Ed P. We got a Levon Soto for the Halos. That'll be for Kenneth. Kenneth P. We got a Jackie Robinson blue, little color match there, 26 out of 75 for Ed and the Dodgers. We got an Alec Minoa. Blue James, D.Y. With the blue birds. And then Barry Larkin orange, 19 out of 25 for Michael Stapleton and the red legs. All right, next box. That was box four, halfway through. All right, now Eric Houston needs the Bednar Superfractor. That'd be nice. I don't think I pulled a train whistle out of here, right? So Scott Rowland has a lifetime 281 batting average, 2,077 hits, 316 home runs, almost 1,300 runs batted in, seven time all-star. World Series Champion in 06, did win the rookie of the year. I guess the eight gold gloves held. It's a pretty good fielder and a silver slugger. Now in pristine, I don't think I've got a train whistle out of five and under in pristine. Not yet anyway. Yeah, it's John's thinking, maybe Rowland's a tier four Hall of Famer, but gets invited to the dinner table next to the door in the ladies room. Right, he's not near the dais, right? He's not near the main wedding party. He's not being seated with the parents or anything like that. He's definitely invited. You're maybe getting five minutes with a couple maybe. You're probably not invited to the after party. Oh, redemption. That's kind of where Scott Rowland is, I think. Okay, fair enough. There's a movie. Scott Rowland doesn't get a plus one, right? You can come, Scott, but you don't get a plus one. Sorry. I thought I saw like a redemption there, but there's no redemptions in that post-tax. Poor Pete Rose. All right, you got Joe Maurer, Orange, 12 out of 25 twins. That'll be for Nester. For the brew crew, we've got Brian Kay and Cody Clements. Sean Gola and the Fightin' Fills to 75. And from an upside down Pete Alonzo, congrats to someone you are due to receive a popular demand auto relic pink parallel. Maybe to 15? The base cards are parallels number to 15. We got N. There can only be two teams with a city N. New York Met, New York Yankees. It's new M. R-I-N, Rivera. Woo. Russell Thompson, dangerous. Nice one. What, James?  Who's reporting this? Have they even done an MRI yet? Wow, ESPN and MLB Network just reported it. Victor Robles for Nester and the Nationals. Geez. There's Christopher Morel for Rex's Cubs. Jeff has the Cubs to 50. Wow. There's Vlad Guerrero Jr. 28 out of 50. Ozzy Albies for the Braves. That'll be for Matt. Alex Bregman to 75 for the Stroes. And that's for Howard. And Gabriel Moreno, Diamondbacks 75. Geez. That's crazy. Angels just can't get a break, right? They just got trout back. Now, you can still probably, you could probably still hit, though, right? Right, Harper still hits. I think he could still hit. So if he was just a pitcher, if he was any other mortal, just a pitcher, then that would be, he would be out for a year and that would, that would crush his free agency. Well, I think Harper had carried a, I think Harper carried a UCL and still hit. I don't know if, I don't, depending on the severity, I don't know if it'll actually hurt. Worse than whatever damage is already there. Obviously, hitting a baseball is far less torqued and strained on your elbow than throwing a baseball 100 miles per hour. All right, so as a hitter, and a potential pitcher, so instead of a $600 million, instead of a $600 million paycheck, fine, Otani's like $500 million now. That's what I've always said. I've always said that either Otani at some point in his career is going to have to choose one side or the other, or, yeah, move to, move to closer.   Go ahead on the top of the ninth and then closing it out in the bottom of the ninth. Yeah, how would that work? Warm enough? You'd have to work around his at-bats, I guess. Or maybe you pinch it for him. If he's batting in the eighth and you know... Yeah, I guess that would be weird. Maybe he's an opener then. Maybe he just does the first two innings. I don't know. That's terrible news, though. But at least we'll still be able to see him play. I would imagine they'll still... They'll still let him hit. Right, maybe Elon can build a tunnel underneath whatever team he signs for and he can just run underneath there. Yeah, I've always kind... I didn't think it would happen this year, but I always said that whatever team he signs a long-term deal with, you know, I think that team was probably going to be like, hey, listen, we have to also, before you sign this deal, we have to be clear about maybe an exit strategy on, you know, as you get older, how many, you know, you might have to pick one or you might have to have a serious conversation about picking just pitching or just hitting or changing how many innings you pitch. Oh, sorry. Corbin Carroll, rookie card, not numbered. Zander Bogus, a 99 for the Padres and Walter and Luis Robert, a 75. That's for the White Sox. Yeah, and Eric Hughes just got pushed on.  Nice, Frank Castle. But I think, you know, I think the Dodgers are probably happy that the price tag's a little bit lower. All right, nice one, Cardinals. Frank Castle, Goldie. And we got Matt Libertor as well for Frank. And we got Cody Clements to 99. That's for the Phillies. That'll be for Sean G. We got Luis Robert Gold to Nester in the White Sox, 12 out of 50. For the Rocks, Brian Servin, rookie card for Duncan. And we got Caleb Achillian, rookie order for the Cubbies, Jeff. And then for the O's, D.L. Hall, 26 out of 75. Starting pitchers are generally on a, generally on a four day rest rotation. They pitch four days rest and they pitch on the next fifth day. With Ohtani, they gave him an extra rest day, so he generally pitches every six days. He had some arm fatigue a couple weeks ago, so they skipped a starter. He hits pretty much every day. So they rested him and they skipped a start, maybe even two or maybe one. And he had a starter earlier today and then he left after less than 30 pitches. Arm fatigue was the original, you know, report, the early report. Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how the free agent dominoes fall now. Maybe, you know, maybe a lot of people are stepping out of the Ohtani race. Although, you know, people have to wait to see what the medicals turn out to be.  You know what I mean? And it might be even more valuable. I mean, think about the numbers now, how he's hitting. You know, so if he just focused on hitting, that could be kind of a, maybe he can get him out in the field too. He's played a little outfield. I think he's a good fielder. He's really fast. So he could make, he could probably end up being a good outfielder if his pitching load becomes very, you know, restricted. At first base, maybe? Yeah, I agree, James. He's about to be 30 next year. This will be a big risk wherever he goes.  Right, which is, which is why, well, whenever this discussion crops up, here's Osvaldo Parazzo 75. I always talk about like, hey, so, you know, a team that's signing into a 10-year deal leading up to his year 40 season, I feel like there's got to be some, some thing in the contract and some mutual agreement that, hey, buy like age 35, we got to start talking about maybe you just sticking with one thing, pitching or just hitting, preferably just hitting. It's Matthew Libertura purple to 99. Michael, with the Tigers, Michael P. With the Tigers, you also get this Miguel Cabrera to 25 as well, Al Kalin and Mickey. And we got Torrey Hunter twins around the diamond, Jersey and autograph. That will be for Nester and the twins. Nice, 64 out of 99. There's Ty France, 19 out of 50. That will be for Seattle, that's going to go to Matt. Pudge, it's Florida Marlins edition, that'll go to Miami, D.Y. We got Josh Young, nice. Rookie Auto for Texas, that's going to go to Jeremy Olson. We got Matthew Libertura, 44 out of 75. That will be for Frank and the Cardinals. Justin Mernot twins, that's going to be Nester in Minnesota and Michael Stefanik, Rookie Auto for the Angels. That'll be for Kenneth P. David thinking, does Otani make Hall of Fame? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe he's in that Scott Rollin tier maybe. Yeah, I think so. Duncan, I mean, when you're talking about possibly a record, even now, you know, even with this UCL injury for Otani, if they're talking, you know, if he intends to continue to pitch, yeah, I think they're going to have to be a lot of conditions that are involved. I mean, as a hitter, just purely as a hitter, he's going to get paid a lot of money. Maybe not the crazy numbers that people were throwing around, but maybe this is a reality check. You know, maybe this is a reality check for Otani that it's like, listen, what you did for a couple years is really special.  You know, maybe for Otani was turning 20, instead of 30, this might be something different, but yeah, maybe teams that are approaching will be like, listen, we're going to put a cap on new pitching. We want you to do it. But each year that goes by, we're probably thinking less and less, you know? I mean, you can do unique things, right? With Otani, you can get creative. You can be like, hey, you only pitched the second half of the year in playoffs. That's it. Maybe you only pitched during the playoffs. You know, you can keep his arm kind of picture-ready throughout the season, throw in bullpen, side sessions, and maybe build enough in September, and then maybe you just pitch playoffs. So I think you can still get creative with Otani. I think Otani is going to still probably command a record-breaking contract, especially if a team can get creative with how they're going to use him. And maybe that's what Otani is going to want to hear in the off-season.  Right, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying if he does bullpen session, he just keeps the arm picture-ready throughout the year, even though you're not pitching competitively. Almost like a four-month spring training like that. Just so you don't ramp it up from zero to a hundred, you know?  But like I said, maybe that does sort of, because people are throwing out numbers like $600 million, $650 million, but that's with the assumption that he was going to do exactly this for the next 10 years or something like that. You know, it had to be one or the other at some point. Kyle Stowers to 25. He does get Tommy John to be out at least two years. I don't know anyone who's had Tommy John that has been out two years, Rex. It's usually a 12 month from surgery to rehab to coming back. It's about 12 months. Less if you're just hitting. It's Hideki Matsui to 75. So because, yeah, Walker Bueller had his second Tommy John. It depends on what happens when they open up the elbow too. When Walker Bueller went down with his second Tommy John, they opened up his elbow and they realized it wasn't as severe as they thought. They just need to clean out some bone dust and stuff like that. And Walker Bueller may come back September. They originally thought he wouldn't be ready to throw baseball until until like September, October. But he's been throwing bullpen sessions for like the last month. He's like months ahead of schedule. There's Eddie Murray and Joe Musgrove around the Diamond Jersey and autograph. And the other thing is that you can still hit. So he won't, he really won't be out, you know, per se. You can still get him on the field in different ways. There's Devin Williams for the Brew Crew. That'll be Brian Kay. It'll be Vlad Guerrero in Going Gone Blue Jays. One out of 25. We got Nick Prado, Royals. That'll be for Jerry Bennington, 34 out of 50. We got Michael Harris, 29 out of 75. Lana Braves, Matt. We got Mookie Betts, nice for the Dodgers. That'll be for Ed P. And last but not least is Levon Soto for the Halos, 3 out of 99. That's going to go to Kenneth. And there you go, ladies and gentlemen. Let's do a quick little recap here. So pretty nice break. This pristine, sort of a longer break from all these packs involved, but but ultimately a lot of nice little eye candy. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.  Not the Corbin Burns. Vlad Guerrero Jr. Going Going Gone to 25. I went to D Y and Blue Jays. It's a lot of fun. Insert autographs must grow. Torrey Hunter, some old school guys. Cody Clemens Goldie Bregman Vlad Guerrero Sr. Morrell Mariano Sign Your Cards. That was nice. And Scott Rowland early on.  Pristine Baseball. Pick your team 2 in the books. I'm Joe for jaspeaskacebrakes.com. Thanks for watching. Thanks for breaking with us. Out of 5's and under. Got the train whistle, Duncan. Not out of 25's. That'd be way too many. I'm Joe for jaspeaskacebrakes.com. I'll see you next time for the next break. Bye bye. No, no, no. That would just be way too many train whistles.   When's the last time? Bueller pitch? I think last July. Last July, I want to say. It's generally about a calendar year from surgery to throwing off a mound or something like that. Maybe an extra month or two. It's definitely not two years. And again, like I said, as a as a hitter, you can come back way you can come back from that way sooner and just start hitting right away. You can keep hitting this season if they want him to. I don't think the Dodgers had too much trouble making the playoffs. Someone ironically though with everyone just assuming that Otani is going to go to the Dodgers. I think the Dodgers kind of needed Otani more as a pitcher rather than a hitter. They got plenty of hitters. Not worried about that. So I don't know what the what the what the new calculation is for the Dodgers now. You know. Dodgers like to get creative though. I could see them you know, I could definitely see them going like four, three, three years, three or four years and give him like and give him like 60 million dollars a year or something like that. You know, really short but high average annual value. They're one of the teams that like that kind of math. Whether Otani takes it or not. I don't know but their Dodgers are banking on the fact, hey here you are for three years. We'll let you hit. We'll let you pitch and you get another bite at the free agent Apple if you end up killing it. Maybe the Dodgers will still re-sign them then and there but but the Dodgers are confident enough team to do something like that. All right, that's it for me ladies and gentlemen. I got to get out of here so Jason can start doing his recap videos for the Fanatics Live.  Jason's been working solo all day long. Trout's back on the IL now too? Geez I wonder if Trout's fine but if they're just like, you know what let's just shut everybody down. Let's give everybody a break. Let's call some guys up. Yeah, he just did but I almost want to say I wonder if that's really an injury though. I think they're secretly just shutting everybody down maybe. All right gang, well listen we'll talk more about this tomorrow I'm sure. I'll be on the Fanatics Live stream tomorrow and then I think Jason will be doing you two tomorrow here so you'll hang out with him or is it Chris? No, I think it's Jason. Oh, it's Jason. I'll be back with him tomorrow on the Fanatics Live stream. All right gang, thank you very much for hanging out. We had a really solid day. We did a lot of soccer. We had a couple pristine breaks down. We finally got that NT done which was really awesome. So we had a really good night and some really good conversations today as well. Appreciate you Duncan. Thanks for hanging out. Appreciate you John. Always a pleasure as well. I'll be back on YouTube next Tuesday and Wednesday but I'll be on Fanatics Live Thursday and then Fanatics Live Sunday Monday three out of my five days of Fanatics Live Tuesdays and Wednesdays right here where you're watching now. So Rex, have a good night. Duncan, John, James, Eric Houston, David Tommy John should be in the Hall of Fame by the way and anyone else who's lurking and listening in the background appreciate you hanging out with us. Join us on YouTube tomorrow and join me on Fanatics Live tomorrow as well. Thanks everybody.


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According to Samantha Power, all advocacy at its core is an exercise in empathy. Welcome to the Advocate, five panelists, five thought-provoking topics discussed in a no-holds-barred manner. In other words, we call a spade by its name. Provoking my thought today is whether in the slightest way the government has any responsibility in looking after the mental health of its citizens. Shalakuti is telling us today that the biggest problem in Nigeria stems from poverty and not corruption. Joining us for the first time, Enno Edoh, is here to debunk talks about youths being the sole solution to Nigeria's problem in what she terms old wine in new skin. Another debutante on the show today is Enito Ibiroke, and she's pointing her spotlight to the dangers of irregular migration. Last but not least, my intelligent friend, Kunde Lawal, educates us on the importance of the third tier of government. It's a ray of topical issues spiced with seriousness and laughter. Don't go anywhere, we will be right back after this break. Sour grapes and more. The recent Twitter guard decree by the Nigerian federal government is one in the plethora of occurrences that have left millions of young Nigerians with feelings of absolute disgust, annoyance, and deep-seathed frustration. Now, more than ever before, the focus on mental health has taken the front burner, and a look at popular means on the internet and social media showcases a general sense of apathy between government and the governed, as government is perceived at every turn of deliberately promulgating policies and instituting decisions that have negative bearing on the mental health of citizens. Which brings me to the crux of my advocacy today. To what extent is it the duty of national, state, and local leadership to protect the sanity and mental zen of the people? Does this even fall within the direct or indirect spectrum of government's responsibility? Or is it simply sour grapes, where every citizen takes responsibility for their own mental health, turning lemons into lemonade, and working to entrench internal equilibrium for themselves? As a 15-year-old SS3 student in boarding school, a housemate once said to me, Why do you have a permanent frown on your face? You always look so unhappy. Now, on the knowns to him, myself and others, who may surreptitiously have had the same thoughts about my facial construct, at the time, during my teenage years, I was battling depression and daily suicidal thoughts. Yet, I was the most talented, the most cheerful, the most creative, and arguably one of the most brilliant students at the University International School, comprising a student body of about 600 adolescents. My teenage years, as with virtually everybody's, were particularly difficult. The challenges of a boy child who did not conform to the stereotypes of his male-dominated patriarchal society are humongous. These took such a severe toll on me, in ways I could neither then imagine or now tell. Being an adolescent in itself is tough. Add that to being different from your peers, in mannerism, thinking, and approach to life. I've often said that the singular reason I did not go through with ending things was because from time, my threshold for physical pain has always been very small, and I could not find a painless way to die. What is more, even if I did find a painless escape, having been raised Pentecostal Christian, the realities of a painful hell where people who committed acts such as suicide go to for an eternity of torment left me feeling mortally terrified. My immediate family, that's my parents and my siblings, played a major role in keeping my zen. Not for a second in my 39 years of life have they made me feel different in a negative way. Thank God I'm here today to tell the story. Now looking back at how external factors, even at that level, was a supreme deciding factor in determining my mental health and well-being. How much more do the actions or inaction of governments impact on the mental health of her citizens? I have always said that suicide should not be the great wake-up call to mental health issues, sadly it is. I am however left wondering and hoping that unlike observed in other clients, Nigerian citizens do not have to resort to suicide before our leaders rise to the challenge of our mental health needs. Wow, a lot about mental health. The thing is, I don't even think the Nigerian constitution is set up in a way that mental health of citizens or even mental health of those in power is even considered. I of course know that Nigeria is a funny place. Right, and of course I mean the laws and the responsibility of government talk about health. Most times we limit it to physical health when we talk about issues like malaria, cholera, time point. But the truth is the prevailing environment, government policies, decrees, things that government institutes have a direct bearing on the mindset and the mental health of citizens. So I mean the question is, does government even realize or recognize that fact? I think that in my opinion I may have a slightly differing opinion and that is that while there's a role of government in society, we know the ground norm, but I have always come to believe that the individual has a personal responsibility for their lives and their actions regardless of the situation they find themselves in. Case in point, you spoke about your adolescent years and how difficult and traumatic it was for you. But then regardless of what it was, somehow I don't know why or how, you found a way to be here today and we're very thankful for you. Correct, exactly. So I am convinced that we personally as people have a role to play in how we preserve our mental health and every other thing. I think that when we start to take knowledge and cognizance of that, we may start to have a better society. Things may just start to shift in our society because obviously the government isn't going to do anything.  They didn't bring people from any other place. It's the same people from the same society who went into government. So what is the problem? It's weak people. Well, of course, you can see the people have to do more. But you know, it's kind of a little, to be a little better if the government could actually be part of it. So, Kermak, over to you. Correct, because you want to ask questions like to what end really are some of the things that we see coming out of our leadership in Nigeria? Because you can't separate the mental well-being of our people from government policies and all of that. OK, Shola, is there anything you'd like to say? Yeah, I just think that, you know, that to say that basically the people that in government come from society, essentially we should ask ourselves the question, how do people in our society regard mental health? Did they take it seriously? Kermak is lucky because nobody was going on, he supported his family. Most people don't take mental health care. I mean, my growing up, my idea of mental health was essentially someone who was crazy. I didn't think someone was depressed or who was sad or who was struggling to accept certain things about themselves was considered to be struggling with mental health. I think the society needs to take clear and active role in being able to get government to change policy. Thanks, Shola. Thanks, Shola, but it's actually right, I always assume that mental health was strictly someone that is crazy. I know, right? No, you say, yeah, I agree and I'm sure Enor would also agree. So, when we say government to change policies, the first thing is in our society, if you're sad, they beat the sadness out of you. It's a cultural thing. It's a cultural thing, but I also believe that if we're saying government needs to take a role, do we realize that these people who are in government were raised in a cultural society that does not allow you to show emotions or express emotions? Correct. So, when I look at government, I think maybe what we need to look at is that how do we go back to our health care system? Because mental health is, every time we grow up, we had yaba left. We saw psychiatric hospitals. Yeah, that was a stigma. It was a stigma transition. So, I think we need to go back and say, when you say government, sometimes we push things to people without telling them what direction they're supposed to take. People in government were raised in the same society, in the same cultural spaces as we all have been raised. And so, what we might need to say is, can the government and those in authority look at how they're going to improve the health sector and actually bring to the fore issues around emotional things. Because mental health is, we're talking about our emotions. How do we react to things? And above all, because a lot of my work has been done around people's skills, especially etiquette, there's a part that we never talk about which is empathy. How do I feel? How do I relate to something? You know, I'm happy you're mentioning empathy. Let's take, for instance, the Twitter gang. Thank you. Right, how does that affect the mental health of the average Nigerian that lives his life on social media, has his businesses on Twitter, is an influencer, whose life is built around Twitter? Look, Edmonton, I'm telling you, I know lots of young people who felt like life was literally snuffed out of it. In our popular parlance, it choked. Like, it really choked. I must say, as much as they acted and really acted, they actually, as the executives, they didn't have the exact power by the constitution to actually move on to that kind of act because the truth is 39 subsection 2 allows any Nigerian to operate or disseminate information which is what Twitter and social media do. So for what president does take such an action? You need ratification from National Assembly. Right. Well, actually, I think to add to that, there's a part where we are kind of, we all, to answer Kimba's question first about people that live on social media, it's time to actually look at the resilience that we're building in this generation. So you find that there was a particular article or reset that I saw on TV and it said that we are dealing with a generation of people that have been pampered through life. So when you're in school, you are given an award for every activity. Competition is missing. And so there's a lot more that we need to do. And I also think that the last, the other realms of government, CSOs, that civil society and the media have a lot to do in influencing and shaping the narrative beyond just government as authority leaders as we think. All right. So moving and hoping and, I know, believing and taking responsibility for our own mental health as individuals and as a community of people. Shalak Houthi is next after this break. Stay with us.