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Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah thanks for coming on. So over 30 years kind of leading away for the phenomenon which is UFOs. You've been investigating it for like I say over 30 years all around the world, thousands of views. You've done mega podcast, Joe Rogan who's absolutely done. You've been on his show twice. He loves all that stuff as well but this is the kind of stuff that I love these conversations because I'm not an investigator on it. I watch YouTube videos from time to time and it's appealing. There's something sexy about thinking there's other life out there. First and foremost how are you though? I'm doing great you know. We tried to connect last time. I was in Manchester. Was I? No I was in... I think you were in Scotland. I was in the Midlands. I did actually come to Scotland. I went to Edinburgh. That's true. You're totally right. I sit corrected and we didn't manage to quite get there but I did say I'd be back and I'm so glad that we got to connect and I got to do this in person. I think it's much better doing it in person. Yeah it's more personal. You know what I mean? You can connect more to a whole different level instead of Zoom. I don't look like I get asked every day to do Zoom's all around the world but I'd rather do it in person. I feel as if the audience get more from it as well. But these conversations this will do well because people are always intrigued.   The same as myself. It's to stay open-minded for everything and the stuff that you do I love because you're not out there saying believe this and believe that. You're only asking the questions, getting the evidence, getting the pictures, the videos and showing it for people to then make their own assumptions or pass their own judgment and that's the best thing because I think a lot of people can force their agendas or their beliefs on everyone else and that's when people then ended up they'll not hate it but they'll just kind of go against the grain. But it's to stay open-minded to everything even this conversation. It's to stay open-minded. Look into it yourself. Watch your documentaries. You've done what six, seven films and documentaries. Very powerful. All different. So it's just very interesting and for me it's just and a massive appeal to think there's other life out there. I love that stuff. So thank you for that intro. One of the things that I like to make perfectly clear is that I'm intrigued by, I call it the phenomenon because not only do I have a documentary called the phenomenon but I called it the phenomenon because it was referenced in government files in the United States dating back to 1947. If you look up a memorandum, I think it was General Nathan Twining referred to it as the phenomenon. It's something real and not visionary or fictitious and so they don't call it little green man or flying saucers. The government refers to it as the phenomenon because the phenomenon is complex. It's not easily explained away as oh maybe we're having this is a huge universe, right? Clearly I think the consensus is is that it's teeny with life and that we get periodic visitation and for whatever reasons governments tend to cover this up for lack of explanation. But it's not like as someone who's looked into it for 30 years I've met with some of the most intellectual heavyweights in the scientific community that have really put a lot of thinking power into this. What is what are we dealing with here? There's no one easy answer. It's it's a complex complex issue and you know I'd like to build a tell your audience. I've been at it for 30 years and then I have an explanation but I don't. I can say that there are structured craft of unknown origin unequivocally whizzing around with impunity. It's a global phenomenon. They're nuts and bolts. They exhibit a technology that is light years advanced from anything that we have. They can give an example. They don't have any wings. They don't have any tail. They can hover. They don't make any noise. They don't have any exhaust vents. They don't do very little air disturbance. Sometimes witnesses report a slight humming and then they can accelerate from a standstill from a hovering position to at a site in a blink of an eye. They do right angle turns at high speeds and that is that's irrefutable around the globe that we could prove that's happening. The question is who is it? What do they want? Where do they come from? Is it some super secret government you know hidden developed craft? I highly doubt it because it's been going on for so long and it would have to keep a secret for eight years or more. So that's the big question is what are we dealing with? Before we get into everything though I always like to go back to the start with my guests.  Where do you agree on how it all began? Oh well I haven't been back there since but I was born in Exeter England in the southwest. My dad was British. My grandmother on my father's side goes where our lineage goes way back in England and my parents moved from England to Brooklyn in the 70s and then my dad was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and he was dealing with this whole health issue. I think he was given like a year or two to live back when I was just born and my father was just absolutely focused on finding a cure. He was kind of like me like when you go after something you you know you're hell bent on on getting an answer and anyway my parents split up and they both went to California. My father went to Northern. My mother went to Southern and so I I spent a good portion of my life in Northern California. How was that seeing your dad and I will cheer his whole life? So he he was known like when I was really young there's like why does your father walk with a cane you know because he's with multiple sclerosis he started to lose his abilities. His muscles? His muscles and stuff slowly they would start from the legs and then sort of work its way up but the legs don't just go out overnight it's like slowly become your your dexterity or your coordination starts getting worse and worse and you can no longer run and then you're having a hard time walking and then you need a cane and so eventually so I guess I I saw the progression pretty slowly and then it finally to the point where he could no longer walk and so he was in a wheelchair which was hard but when he lost the movement of his arms that was that was really tough because now he can't eat he can't get about he can't go to the bathroom on his own you really can't do anything on your own you know once you lose your arms so that was tough and I'd say he was a quadriplegic and I was telling you this earlier that everyone said oh you just because I became a dad a little later in life you know I was in my 40s mid 40s when I became a father and uh everyone's like oh it's so tough well you just wait and you got to change those nappies and I said I looked after a six foot five quadriplegic and I was his nurse his chauffeur because my father was a journalist his his his physical therapist uh his secretary um so I did it all you know uh growing up and it was tough but it was also we had a very special relationship because we were dependent and in many respects on on each other so we had a very close bond yeah that's you can see that though even when I mean you've got a great presence you've got a great energy you can see you're a a genuine good guy and to do that it's fucking heartbreaking as well to see I love one up my old man was the same he was leukemia and he deteriorated for for two three years the bloods wasn't so as prolonged as ms that can go on for years and years but to see him deteriorating struggle it's my mum who done all that work I don't think I was strong enough to take that role even though looking back I should have as a son that's what you should be doing but does that very tough then toughen you to then okay make you not a better person but it can also make you better because you think why me why did I need to go through that why my dad and like you see you can go both ways when you kind of involved with someone you love see them deteriorate yeah you know for me my father never complained it was never pretty poor me he was always the life of the party to him people would say charlie how do you do it because how do you do it you don't you can't move and yet he would never complain he was had the best sense of humor ever he used to say to me made me a promise in life son and I'd say what's that and he'd say promise me you'll never take your legs for granted and so I walk all the time I go hiking all the time and every morning I wake up and I jump out of bed and I think how fortunate I am that I can like move my arms and my legs and I can get about and that is such a bonus in life so I feel like I'm so ahead of the game and it and quite honestly if I lost if I got some sort of illness and lost that capacity now I would never have any regrets because I really feel so fortunate I feel just really incredibly fortunate yeah and I can that I'm healthy what were you like at school james that we are that kind of guy who is the little UFO came to lunchbox I was not even on your side no no no it's funny actually because when I was 19 I dated this girl uh Rachel Miller and she was 20 she said uh oh my previous boyfriend was really into UFOs and I fuck the why on earth would you date a freak in the UFOs like what are you thinking I just really like she went down a notch for me I'll never forget it when she told me that my next boyfriend was really in the UFOs but why did I have that knee jerk reaction I think I think that it's it's been so hammered into us I mean there was a push in the 50s right after the uh there was a major flap of UFO sightings in 47 and then we had two consecutive weekends in Washington DC of 1952 where the Capitol building was buzzed with these unknowns these UFOs and there were jets scrambled to intercept them they were picked up on radar they were seen visually from the the pilots it was crazy the whole country heard about it anybody out there can just google 1952 UFOs Washington DC they had a big press conference and I'm getting to the relevance of this in a second they had a big press conference this guy uh general john sanford stepped out and addressed the nation and apparently it was the biggest uh address biggest press conference since the ending of world war two and he basically you know they said there's something where is it uh credible people are seeing incredible things something like this uh they convened a panel from the CIA to figure out like how to deal with this problem and it was called the robertson panel and they adopted this policy for the air force in 1953 of ridicule and it was a very effective campaign and that campaign I mean you know what's funny about a pilot reporting something that they're unable to explain in the sky but that stuck and it was very effective and I guess all these years later you know when I heard about UFOs I would just laugh and think it's a joke but yeah do you see I mean it was an intentional it was an intentional tactic and it was very effective do you think that's the deflect to think the people who speak out it to then make them crazy no no question about it that happened in 1953 you can look it up robertson panel because I was uh E.T. was a big one for me yeah E.T. was the one I think was the 80s I was on a young boy but I always stood out and it was always interesting to think there was other life out there that could cure things and with a touch and they could see into the future it's very all intriguing people love the U.F. look like I say you speak out against that people will think you're crazy because we haven't really I've and I always say this but if unless I see it with my own eyes I've got to think okay well it could be hocus pocus but then again you've still got to be just because you haven't seen everything does it mean that it's not real either so it was that moment for you then when you decided the man who used to laugh about people who were intrigued by U.F.O.s to then become one of the biggest investigative journalists in the world I want to get back to E.T. afterwards I'm gonna tell you a funny funny thing with E.T. so uh my father and I my dad was a journalist and he would he was a mainstream journalist and we actually went to Gonville and Keyes and interviewed Stephen Hawking we interviewed race car drivers Stephen Hawking had I think it was Parkinson's was it um Lou Gehrig's or Parkinson's excuse me he had he was a few things yeah yeah he had a few things wrong with him and we went to interview Stephen Hawking's at Gonville and Keyes of course my dad being a well-turned a reporter and Stephen Hawking's being a reporter and his book uh had just the big book had come out within a within a year or two I'll think of the name in a second um but this episode is sponsored by fire away pizza the fastest growing pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores with their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas they will have you coming back for more use code james20 for 20 off that's james20 for 20 off we were supposed to talk to Stephen Hawking's about this revolutionary technology that enabled him to speak you know communicate with the outside world it was a software technology and it was for a magazine called PC computer magazine but but Stephen Hawking's book had just come out we wanted to talk about black holes you know but it was sort of our end to Stephen Hawking so we get in there and uh we said uh my dad we asked him about black holes right and he Stephen Hawking typed with one thumb for so long I thought oh my god this interview is going to go on forever like click click click click click I mean like 20 minutes click click click you know do the response and my dad and I were so excited and he said uh I thought this interview was going to be about computers not god so any case so I would go around with my father on these different magazine reports and I would I would be his chauffeur his secretary his you know his gopher or whatever we were a team and I was very supportive of his work and then when I told my father in my early 20s uh a long time ago that I wanted to do a documentary on UFOs he was beside himself I mean he was he was so supportive of everything else I'd ever done even things he didn't agree with and he used to say to me growing up like son I don't care what it is in life that you end up doing just as long as you're happy there's nothing to it it's a dead end road you're wasting your life like please reconsider he had members of my British side of family writing me letters from the England and saying your father has drawn attention the fact that you're doing this and he's very concerned about the path you're on and that it's nothing to it and I was kind of surprised that I got that response but I got that response from lots of people and I had some I had some people come up to me and they say um what's this on about you know UFO boy they call me UFO boy you know what you want about and I remember jokingly I actually was quite offended on a number of occasions but I in one time in particular I just said I didn't feel like dealing with it I said uh oh I just do it for the money and the guy said oh that's a huge relief thank you of course I was absolutely penniless right but that that's changed that's changed and you asked me about how I got to where I'm at today or how the perception has changed and I'd say that um I was the butt of many jokes uh ridicule not always but for the most part I mean obviously witnesses would be different story we can have a serious conversation but for the most part it was laughter and ridicule for a long time and um I'd go to a cocktail party and tell people you know my friends please don't tell people what I'm doing like it's just I don't want to spend the night defending my position on anything quite honestly it's my personal journey in that you know and every time I'd finish a documentary on UFOs and it was take me years I mean they're very difficult getting access I didn't have a name behind me I didn't have like a mainstream news they really trusted it mainstream anyway but and so developing that that relationship and that trust with witnesses and government insiders and military insiders that took decades and um every time I'd finish a film I'd say never again I've got other interests in life but inevitably that film would open more doors and I'd get more access and that just keeps happening and now I'm working with government insiders you know in Washington DC like actively in DC you know off the record for the most part not totally but so now I'm in like I'm not going anywhere I'm in this thing and and and um and I I feel like uh as I said to you earlier uh if I can ask your audience to suspend judgment for a moment and imagine that if there was compelling physical evidence to suggest that we're not alone um how can how significant of a story would you give that and I think I would imagine the vast majority of your audience might agree that it could be potentially one of the biggest paradigm shifting stories of our time well I'm convinced that's the case and so how am I going to walk away from a story like that no you're 30 years deep now I'm 30 years deep now exactly how was that yeah I'll be like I'll be with a water beat me up Scotty but it's more about it when your dad is interviewing guys like Stephen Hawking worldwide names and you're going down that listen hawk is hawk is fairy tale kind of route where there's not much concrete evidence back then to suggest that there was even life maybe you'll see it on the news or the newspapers but again how how we all can we trust those people but why did you stick it why did you decide to stick to your path and stick to your guns I stuck to my guns because I went to locations and I met the witnesses first hand first hand it's not something I read out of a book I was that curious and these witnesses I look them in the eyes just like you and I sitting here and and uh and I could see how excited they were that someone would take them seriously they could actually convey what they saw what they experienced without being laughed at and I think that's probably one of the reasons why I've I've been as successful as I have been not that I'm just hugely successful guy but I've had success and I get more doors are opening is because I've provided very early on from my first film in the mid 90s I provided a credible platform to allow witnesses to come forward and testify or claim just tell what share what they saw and I myself don't draw any conclusions I don't say oh John and his wife Mary saw a UFO from Alpha Centauri or you know I never say that I don't know what it was probably tell you what it wasn't but or where it came from anything like that do you see what I mean and so and so people started coming to me and and and here I am all these years later what was the first bit of evidence you got to say okay there's a possibility that there's unidentified flying objects out there what was the first piece of evidence where you thought okay I'm going to give this my full life oof you know every time I finished a documentary I I mean honestly the first couple that I did and in fact the first film I ever did and my father was telling me I was nuts everyone was I sold it I worked on it for about five years I sold this to Discovery Discovery Channel it aired on the learning channels called UFOs 50 years of denial and when I finished that I just I got to interview the sixth man to walk on the moon Edgar Mitchell Palo 14 he was amazing he talked a bit about Roswell talked a bit about some of the evidence of these craft exhibiting this technology um I'm trying to think of a specific case uh Roswell is pretty compelling we could go into that in a bit if you like that was certainly compelling just because of the of the the caliber of of witnesses yeah let's talk about Roswell was that 1946 was 1947 that was I covered that case in my first piece is that the one with the little alien well so what's the connection with that well what I can do is I'll just give you the facts yeah in 1947 there was a who was June of 1947 there was a guy named Kenneth Arnold he was a private pilot he ran for Lieutenant Governor in Idaho I think it was and his name was Kenneth Arnold and he reported I think it was nine objects exhibiting some weird flight technology I mean he was in an airplane and he said that the way they skipped across the mountains they were just completely inexplicable he thought that he might have seen something that was a secret government craft under development wasn't sure I don't think he thought alien and he said the way it flew it's sort of like a saucer skipping across water and the birth of the term flying saucer was born and and there was if you google you know 1947 UFO wave in the United States I mean it was just every single newspaper had headlines about it and so it was getting a lot of attention in July the next the following month there's a rancher just outside of Roswell, New Mexico comes upon a debris field of unexplainable material and he'd seen weather balloons and targets out on his ranch from the local military base forever so this particular material he takes in and everyone was talking about flying saucers at that point he takes into the local military base the 509th bomb squadron and he says I'm Mac brazil I'm a local rancher I got this debris and the debris was completely unusual it was like like there were i-beams with little hieroglyphics purple i-beams that you could not just you couldn't you couldn't damage with the sledgehammer or blow torch this memory-like material that was really light and you could pick it up and according to witnesses you can crumple it up into a really small but it was feather you couldn't feel it in your hands and then when you were releasing it would retake its shape so he brings this material to the local military base and they where did you get this stuff and he explains this there's a whole you know huge debris field of it on my ranch I think it could be from one of those flying saucers that everyone's been talking about so a couple of military officers from the base jump in a jeep and they go with this rancher out to the site yeah it was Mac it was uh Mac brazil it was major Jesse Marcell and another military officer and they go out to the debris field they spent the night out there that night and and they recovered like a truck full of it and they brought it back and it was clearly um the determination was made rather quickly that it was it was off-world so they make a press announcement to the whole world that they recovered a flying saucer and that's just everything i'm telling your audience now is just factual we can look it up they were ordered to take some of the debris put it on a b29 fly it from and the 509th bomb squadron was the most elite hand-select unit in the world exclusively responsible for the deployment of atomic weapons that's the enola gay was parked there back in the 40s so for these guys to mistake a common everyday weather balloon from anything else it's just it's just not going to happen so they announced to the world what they recovered they take some of this debris they put it into b29 and they're going to fly it to right paddison air force base in Dayton Ohio that was what the authorities were done but they're going to stop off in fort worth texas along the way and uh i don't know how many hours had gone by between that you could look it up probably the same day and they load this stuff up they fly to stop off at fort worth right paddison was their ultimate destination and there's a flurry i mean that this story exploded in the headlines as you can imagine even in 1947 and there's a flurry of media activity on the base of the airplane when he's trying to get off the plane and the debris that they collected out of the field was in the b29 and he gets off and there's all these media bombarding him with questions and the general this guy general roger ramey comes up and he says you let me handle this keep your mouth shut and let me handle this and he gets debris they have a press conference inside the building nearby they threw a conventional weather blue on the ground took some photographs you can see those photographs today and they said terribly sorry what we thought was a flying saucer turned out it was just a conventional weather balloon end of story you know so that's what happened however two out of three of the people within the press photograph it was uh it was major jesse marcelle colonel debose came forward on the record it's in my movie the phenomenon to say that that was a cover story for what they did picked up and what they picked up in the desert was not of this earth not of this world and since then i know you could look at a number of researchers that have been probably close to 200 witnesses first-hand witnesses that talk about that account and so that was the first major credible claim of a UFO crash and materials recovered 1947 was that after world war two yes again do you ever think that that could be a deflection to then forget about the war and move on because all the attention then goes on to something as big as that all i could tell you is what the witnesses who were there said how many witnesses again well the most credible that have come forward with colonel debose was uh and jesse marcelle uh jesse marcelle major jesse marcelle his son jesse marcelle jr also handled the debris um the corner uh there are a number of but i would say all in all in the hundreds um there have been memorandums that have come out regarding this there's been little notes i mean kevin randall and um uh stanton freedman they've done extensive research on it and books written but the people that were there the people that the debris field the people that recover the material they are high-level military officials and based on their report what they recovered was not of this earth and it was covered up so that's not my opinion it's just what they said where was the photo of the little alien there's an alien it's got a photo and it's looks if it's got half its leg blowing off oh yeah so that was uh that was sentilly re sentilly i think it was from england who actually in learn how the technology nowadays you can tell if something's really fake yeah but back then you probably couldn't so who can tell who's the credible witness who's not credible who can tell if the photos are real or fake do you look at it or do you cover all those angles now with the technology let's get back to the alien footage for a second yeah that was eric showfield and re sentilly it was in the 90s and they were looking for memorabilia from england sorry i think it was in Tennessee of Elvis Presley they put newspaper ads out and they were trying to like find um because it's quite valuable right so they would go and put out ads and they would pay good money for any video filmed footage of Elvis Presley other famous stars of that time of that period and i guess they got contacted by a guy that said hey you know i don't have any of that but i do have some footage of and they were these guys weren't UFO people they had no idea what they were dealing with that story is kind of a long story but ultimately the vast majority of that footage i'm personally convinced is fake but it's not fake because the event didn't happen it's possibly fake for another reason is that they got the footage it was poorly handled once they opened up the canisters most of the stuff deteriorated because it was 1947 and this was the 90s and so um and they borrowed money to get the footage and i think that they based on the footage that they had originally had and originally seen they they recreated it that's what eric showfield and re sentilly would probably tell you today i talked to eric showfield personally about it what about the rose money the waters the rosewell and brazil yeah yeah roswell brazil what's that one so uh if um i tell people that if you don't know much about the phenomenon do not watch my moving moment of contact because moment of contact deals with the roswell of brazil from in 1996 there was a ufo an alleged ufo crash in virginia brazil let me back up for a moment let's see uh to give an example of how difficult i it was for me to believe this case i was working on my second film on the topic of ufos in the late 90s i just finished that first one and i was uh going over like what i do at the beginning of a of a of a film project is i do broad strokes like i'll say okay wouldn't be fun to cover this case and i partner up with people and yeah we can look into the bent waters ufo incident we can we can look into the phoenix lights or whatever uh and and my buddy who's british uh this guy tim colman we just partnered up to do this film together he goes uh he goes how james mate you know there's this case british guy there's there's this case that happened this ufo crash in in brazil happened in 1996 it was like 99s was like three years later maybe four years later and these live aliens apparently survived the crash and you know they were captured by the military and the local police of they were seen by civilians in fire department and that and i just thought oh my god i must have i think i picked the wrong partner like this guy's lost his bloody mind and uh and i refuse to even read one word about the case when i'd heard about it and i'll remind your audience i was working on a ufo film my second one and i refused to look even look into it and i ended up doing a full movie on it but i'll get to that in a second i get a call fast forward it was 99 probably 2099 i get a call from tim we've been in and out of touch for quite some time and he goes you did bloody well i told you about that case back you know you didn't believe me and i said no i didn't he said and now you made a movie on it i said yeah yeah i did and then i said i'll tell you what i'm gonna give you a credit in the movie a special thanks because it'll be our inside joke that you know you told me about a case back all this time ago i refuse to even look into it mate i wouldn't look into it why because it was like i just missed this yes there's no way that happened no what no no way so i just didn't look into it so then 2000 let's see so then i did out of the blue then i did a second version of out of the blue director's cut it's been a couple years on that then i did this big event at the national press club in washington dc with lesard cane 2007 made a movie about that sold it as a two-hour special to history channel called i know what i saw okay so give you an idea like i've been and i'm going to brazil on a completely unrelated just to give a presentation at a conference probably on i know what i saw and i get a phone call it was 2011 i get a phone call from a guy named jeff sagan ski it was very very influential in the entertainment industry you can google the guy he's big time big time one of the most he's the joe rogan of the entertainment industry in terms of like television and movies and you know and uh he's been a fan of mine and we've been friends and he's helped me over the years and he goes are you going to brazil you got to look into that varzina case that alleged you know ufo crash and i was like oh god not this again and so i i have such respect for jeff he's helped me out he's gotten me like distribution deals and he picks up his phone and things happen that guy you know so i didn't want to like laugh and dismiss him so i just said sure jeff i'll look into it yeah 100 yeah i'll do that click no intention of looking into it so zero so i flew to brazil and i'm staying in a place called pedo eb and it was to the south probably like i think it was like three or four hours south of south palo on the coast and it just so happens stanton freedman who's uh synonymous with like waswell he's a nuclear physicist ufo researcher one of the brightest minds in the field rip stanton he died a couple years ago and loved him he was one of the most credible scientific pragmatic guys in the entire uap or ufo field and um and he's speaking at this event as well and i remember uh this funny little side note there was an island off the coast of pedo eb and there was a very uh it was a snake that only it's only one place on earth was this little island rug and you could see the island from sitting at a cafe on the water and um stan freedman and i would joke about it and uh apparently this snake on the island is venomous so deadly one bite and you're dead but it's very valuable so poachers would go to this island and they would you know these snakes would drop out of trees and bite them and they'd die and so stanton and i were talking about this these snakes and this island and and um we're yeah big uh you know big uh lunch parties with other witnesses and stuff and somehow the topic of virginia came up and i have tremendous respect for stanton really i mean look at the guy up and he said uh something like um oh yeah james you don't know about virginia i said i was like uh he's like uh i think that happened it's like really so that sort of planted the seed in my mind and then i started to meet additional witnesses and then i started really looking into it then i went to virginia countless times month each time every time i dug further i thought wow i think this did happen and then uh i i was i was putting together the phenomenon that's the film i think you might have watched yeah the watch tour phenomenon and yeah moment of touch moment of contact moment of contact out of contact out of touch no i'm kidding that and uh so the phenomenon i'm very proud of it took me about eight years to make and uh i know it's insane it's i know it's crazy and i was going to what what i wanted to do is i wanted to include cases from all around the world demonstrate the global nature of the phenomenon right and like go to these locations not just report on them from a book or from archival footage but go to africa and go to australia really good cases like landing cases and alleged contact cases and so i was putting this whole film together again i was telling you i went to china and uh i was going to put virginia in there as well so i was going to i was going to brazil and then um i just couldn't squeeze it in i couldn't squeeze virginia in i didn't have enough i i wasn't quite there yet on the research there were still some some witnesses missing and so the phenomenon came out without virginia this the roswell of brazil and i contacted my counterparts in brazil and they were devastated like what happened we worked on this for a decade like what's what's wrong with you i said ah guys i tried to squeeze it in i only had like 12 minutes and there's so many such a complex case and there's so many moving parts and there's witnesses that have yet to come forward that we need to still find sorry but you know maybe we'll just have to do a film on it on its own so the phenomenon comes out and the and the thing about the phenomenon that i'm particularly proud of is that it's one of the first documentaries that really transcended the UFO community it really did branch out into a much broader audience and and the reason being for that is we got some um very well known household names in the politicians the former senate majority leader harry reid he's huge he's the one that got obama to run for president i'd had a very lengthy uh face-to-face on camera interview with him the new york times it just exploded that story on the front page about this secret pentagon ufo program they were the dod was admitting that ufos were real they couldn't explain them the videos that were snuck out of the pentagon and onto the front page of the new york times that was like getting traction and the whole world was kind of like geez maybe this maybe this is real and i was getting getting on the inside i was working with some government insiders and it was you know people in the new york times i mean it was it was amazing i've never in my entire career anticipated being in that position and having that level of access and and credibility and all of that stuff right so um naturally the the next film would be kind of the phenomenon too but i had some unsettled business i had to get farzinha done i had to get the the roswell of of brazil done now i'll remind your audience i have to report on what could be alleged live aliens walking through this town and being captured okay that's a tall order that's a pretty crazy claim okay i'm aware of that and it's pretty risky for my reputation i've just worked with some government insiders i covered some close encounters of the third kind which i really felt i was pushing the envelope i mean we deal with a landing case in africa with all those school children at aerial school yeah you know just outside harrari yeah so i report on that i went to africa i worked with this guy randall nickerson on it and he's got his own film on just that case aerial school phenomenon but my film was touching on many cases around the world but i'm dealing with a case first of all i'll remind your audience i've got the former senate majority leader harry reid he's very very famous i mean he's very influential and famous in the united states well what i didn't tell him oh and by the way uh the documentary that i'm featuring you in deals with a you know a ufo landing at a school in africa and the occupants getting out and talking face to face or communicating face to face with aliens like he would be like taking me out of the mood i was having nightmares like taking me out of the movie immediately right um but i did it in a way where i just allowed the children to sort of say what they say well they think they gave on camera statements right after it happened to a harvard psychiatrist by the name of dr john mac and that archive footage is is amazing but the point i'm getting at is here is that when i finished that movie and i pushed the envelope to the to the extreme limit is that it really did cross over into a more mainstream i mean i did interviews on every talk show and i mean not just platforms like rogan but i was on fox and cnn and all these different platforms and it was it was a huge risk i thought because i dealt with close encounters of the third kind i reported on alleged close encounters of the third kind and that's when witnesses claim to see occupants right aliens whatever you want to call them so i know i'm getting going about this in a roundabout fashion this is taking forever but i wanted to talk about the relevance of yeah but take your time it's good to explain it okay good yeah because i'm okay good okay the relevance of the virginia case because i had people that i'd worked with on the phenomenon pull me aside and say are you sure you want to do this look at what you're sitting right now you've got this incredible unprecedented position uh you know access dealing with government officials and and now you want to report on a UFO crash and live aliens walking through the town and getting picked up i mean are you sure that's what you want your name associated with and i know what they were talking about i mean it was a it was a it was a risk but i said yes i stand behind this case i really believe that something truly extraordinary took place and so i went back to uh i went back to brazil for a fifth time and and i was there for a little over a month and tracked down additional witnesses and put together this film which was really the culmination of over 10 years of work and i gave credit to so many other researchers that had come before me in in brazil um and i worked with people that had boots on the ground and and put out this film moment of contact people say what's it about it's like you should just watch it it's like you know because when you say what it's about people look at you sideways and they had this sort of incredulous look in their face but when you excuse me that's why joe rogan didn't have me on his show at first because it took like three or four people to tell him and you need to watch this movie because i'm telling you i know it sounds crazy but i think this happened like you can't watch it and think that didn't happen so i'm drinking my tea here okay but i'm surprised you even dismissed it though because normally the crazier the story is more likely to happen i'm surprised you just totally dismissed it at the start especially the work that you were doing because it was so out there why were you so scared was was it your career extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence i did not have extraordinary evidence i do not have a photograph of that alien was any photographs we know that yes we know of multiple well we know of one photograph and we know of three different video sources which i'm convinced at some point and it could happen any day or it could happen next month or next year that will be coming out we're in touch with the people that that that have it that's the thing with me because there's so much camera footage now and there's so much technology yeah there's never any clear cut footage of someone walking or someone flying it's all like old photos of the 80s and 90s it's never concrete to go there's definitely something here do you think people who maybe have that concrete evidence we talk about guys like the men in black is that a possibility of people in suits coming and taking things off people is that ever occurred well that's okay so let's back up about the evidence for a second i can give a couple quick examples of photographic evidence that uh people say oh there's never any good photographs and i i i do admit that we would love to have more however let's go back to 1950 you got mc minville organ you've got two witnesses excuse me you've got broad daylight photographs multiple photographs taken by uh paul trendt and a second witness was was avalan trendt and you can look up the trend photos of 1950 mc minville organ fantastic 60s you can look up santa anna rex heflin there's i think four photographs of a disc shape craft three at least three possibly four a deck sorry would you say a deck a deck with what a shape craft i thought you see a disc i thought you see that flying down though i thought you see that oh my god i thought what a fucking what kind of earrings is that yeah that's the kind of craft i want to be on but but so uh and there have been good photographs i feature some of them some of my pieces out of the blue i know what i saw there's been photographic evidence every decade good ones yeah every decade um i give an example can we talk about the 1990 calvine ufo case yep that happened now calvine is in scotland it's about two hours north of edinburgh but i it's it's in the region of and it starts with a p and i can't remember that exactly but it's the calvine people's sorry p pass it's a particular region it's a highly sought it's a beautiful countryside i just went up there so let's go let's talk about that for a second because we're talking about some photographic evidence we could talk about you know men in black and are these men that show up i report on that for the first time after 25 years just because i could no longer ignore that that's probably going on but um i could can you bring this photograph up or or yeah you'll this is the guy you met in scotland this guy will show the photo now of the clear there was a clear footage of something flying in there yeah so when i i interviewed a gentleman named nick pope multiple times over the decades nick pope investigated ufo reports in an official capacity for the ministry of defense from i think 91 to 94 something like that and he was quite outspoken on the phenomenon that hey we're dealing with something that's truly extraordinary i think it was go as far as like there doesn't appear to be a prosaic explanation in some cases we might be dealing with you know off world or something but he was very conservative about how he went about it but he said that we're dealing with something real so i said to him years ago well you invested cases for the British government like what are your top cases and he said rentals from forest 1980 december was a landing of an object that the officers came up and touched crazy case and calvine which happened in 1990 and he said i said tell me about this calvine he said well there were two hikers and they uh it was august 1990 and they were hiking up on the hills in a little town called calvine cal vine and apparently they were illegally poaching but that's another story altogether they came upon a sort of disc or diamond shaped object that was hovering about 200 feet which would be what 70 meters something like that off the ground totally silent large and they were they didn't know what they were looking at i mean they they got some cover under a tree they were kind of hiding out freaked what is what is this thing they really didn't make any sound didn't have any air disturbance and then a one or two harrier jets came in and flew around it at which point the guy one of the witnesses had a camera and he took a film camera and he took six shots of this object as the harrier jet went around it moments later the object according to the two witnesses accelerated from here and went straight up into the sky at an unearthly speed and it never made any noise or caused any air disturbance and the jets were gone though they arranged to have the photographs taken to the local newspaper the local newspaper was going to run the story with the six photographs they reached out to the mod and the raf for comment hey we're going to run the story on this these guys that claim to see this thing and and um which could you give us a comment and was this guy was the royal air force press officer by the name of craig lindsey and the reason why we know this is because this guy david clark is an extensive research on this case thank you david david lindsey says well how can i make a comment i haven't seen the photograph i haven't seen them and the local paper says we'll we'll send you one of the prints so they did send him this print and it was august 1990 sends the print off to this guy craig lindsey and he says wow okay this is interesting this is not your typical ufo report every time you hear a ufo report you're always expecting like a little blobby a little a little white blob off of the you know uh uh this is a structured craft broad daylight points of reference a military jet flying around it i mean this is exceptional so he somehow the mo so the raf so he starts to look into it he contacts the ministry of defense the ministry of defense steps in tells craig lindsey at the raf hey we got this you can step down and so at which point craig lindsey had already met with at least one of the witnesses and possibly both of the witnesses and interviewed them okay so he got their account he's got a photograph so craig lindsey is now out okay now the mod steps in and they get all the photographs the story never goes to print and the witnesses vanish so i'd heard about that to me it seemed like a clear cut story that it was covered up and i said to nick pope wear the photographs he says well we had one of them blown up in this huge poster on the inside of the mod office where we investigated ufo reports i said well what happened to that kind of like shrugged his shoulders i don't know you know and i harassed nick for quite some time probably the better part of two decades and then again thank you david clark the research of david clark finds the raf officer craig lindsey this was just last year craig lindsey happened to have kept that print for 33 years and out it came in a roundabout way so now we have one of the six copies of the film footage but we're looking for the witnesses to come forward again today which is it was august 1990 and what do we know uh august fair two years ago yeah august 2023 right are we so so i have something if by chance any of these people are watching or they've told maybe their sons yes by chance they know this story how can they contact you or how do you go about that there's a very specific thing i'd like to read if i may because it's it's really important that i get this right and this came in from well you know i might have to keep them anonymous so let me let me read this um okay here's what we know and this is we don't know this to be factual everything i'm going to say here but it's just we we think kevin russell it says care of kevin russell on the back of the photograph i sent you one of the videos you can play out see it on the back of the photograph we don't think it was the original of the two witnesses he was most likely a friend who acted as a middleman and took the images to the scottish daily record the two witnesses were illegally poaching and had taken pictures of their kill immediately before seeing the object source stated that the film reel showed their kill before the six images defense intelligence visited the two witnesses and colleagues stated that they were visibly shooken one left the area to live with his mother on the west coast of scotland there were two harrier jets caught in the six photographs were led to believe that one was re f and the other was u.s marines again we don't know for sure no trace of these jets has been successful certainly in the public eye i brought this up with nick pope at the ministry of defense he's still restricted on what he can say but this is just a couple of days ago and nick said to me perhaps there's data missing in the official ministry of defense files that even himself was unable to get access to in other words they could have found those pilots they could have given their testimony and that could have been all classified we don't know source intelligence found a very clever way to cover up the entire case of the md covered up the entire case some people say that it could be some super secret matter or radar reflector craig linsey nick pope don't believe that explanation but we don't know for sure so if anyone is out there please pretty please with sugar on top even if you want to do it somewhat anonymously you can find me on twitter at at james c as in charlie fox at james c fox my feed is open i'm tempted to give my email address out as well because if they don't want to go on to twitter but i'd have to say they can message me on instagram they can well but james english too they can mess me on twitter facebook and i've got an email there where the team watches well people can just click the email okay just thinking for other options for yourself i would turn myself into a pretzel to be able to meet those witnesses um so please if you're listening to this please come forward if anyone has any information on this case please pretty please with sugar on top come forward it's a possibility it could happen though you don't know who's watching or who's listening yeah i know to be here today in scotland as well as a possibility how do you how do you also separate who's a scam artist who's getting mental health and who's possibly telling the truth great question great question so i'll give an example with moment of contact there wasn't one single witness in that entire film that came to us we tracked them down and the better the witness the more compelling the case the less likely they'll ever want to talk about it what it took and that's one of the reasons why it took as long as it did what it took to get those witnesses to come forward a moment of contact was ridiculous like go back to the phenomenon like the the case that happened in um in africa right those children hadn't even told their husbands i remember talking to one of them um just use her first name emma and um with the help of of randall nickerson we tracked them down this is in 2013 from all different corners in the world because the case happened in aerial school in 1994 and again i said that there was a harvard psychiatrist by the name of dr john mac who flew in within a couple of weeks he filmed all the children on camera and um and that archive material we had but finding the witnesses 20 years later bringing them all out and one of them arrived actually a couple of them had said this i haven't even told my husband i said you had that incredible encounter and you didn't tell your husband that you have two kids with no i said why because i'm tired of defending it so most of the cases that i have focused on there's not people just come to me oh i've got this great you know uh uh it's us learning about a specific case tracking down the witnesses and then doing everything we can to convince them that we are not going to ridicule you we're not going to make fun of you we're going to provide you this credible platform it might encourage other witnesses to come forward so that's one of the biggest um misconceptions and a lot of what what i do is that that i just like all these people are coming forward for their five minutes in the limelight that's not the case we're jumping doing hands look what we're doing with calvine we're just trying to find the witness trying to find them because we want to hear what they saw coupled with the photographic evidence i want to talk to the raf guy who talked to the witnesses i want to talk to you know nick pope who investigated at limited limited capacity so a lot of the cases that we cover it's not easy just to get these people to come forward it takes a lot of work do you believe a lot of people out there's got a lot of information but too scared to come forward because of the ridicule or potentially we talk about men in black coming and taking them well we were talking earlier about um we were talking earlier about you know ufo crash roswell brazil roswell new mexico right so it's like we covered roswell in the phenomenon and i remember working with this guy who's a scientist shock valet and he would he was like are you sure you want to cover that case just just just the facts in other words just the people who were there what did they see right because you're dealing with something potentially the biggest story ever of ufo crashes and bodies were covered you know and then i deal with it again in in in virginia a crash and bodies recovered i'm sure there are lots of other cases obviously and uh i could never have predicted that they would have congressional hearings people testifying under oath in front of a congressional committee that we have programs within the united states government to crash retrieval of of non-human intelligence objects and bodies that just happened in the united states of america under oath the highest level intelligence officers ever i don't even know how many people even are aware of that that is a big deal so yes we're making these claims witnesses have been making these claims people have written books there have been stuff including documentaries well now we have we have legislation we have a push in the united states government for transparency on this topic unlike we've ever seen before and we have witnesses coming forward saying yes these government programs exist special access programs that are free from oversight of of elected officials and that have been operating from dating back 80 plus years and it gives you the possibility well that's nice right now i mean for they've got that own team too much trouble he would get in if if you're going to testify under oath to members of congress and look these guys aren't just saying you know hey yeah there's programs exist and we've got this materials they're saying this is the name of the program this is the name of the location of the program the lab that it's in these are the names of the individuals involved with the program and quite honestly if you get me the clearance i'll walk you in the door that's happening right now see about the thousands of people you've interviewed there are a lot of people who say they've been abducted have you ever came across anyone like that who say they've been abducted and they've seen things in the white term memory and they've seen the future because you'll see these cheap magazines you'll see these people at the front with a statue of an alien and say they've beat me up scottie have you ever came across anyone who's been abducted so i generally avoid okay so the first uh 20 years i covered just reports of strange objects uh in our skies and reports from pilots reports from f a officials reports from officials on military people on the ground civilians and i'm talking either they're lying or you know they're reporting some how do i say this it's not like you know yeah i saw this like uh blurry light off in the distance and it was moving you know no i don't report on that i report on yeah i was sitting there with my entire family and this object that had a wingspan of over two miles shaped like a big v over two miles across flew right over our house very slowly it took five minutes to pass over and we could see metal compartments and everything in the fat and it didn't make any sound and had we not looked up we wouldn't even know it was there those are the kind of reports that i follow that i follow on uh report on um do you ever feel you could be missing a trick just like roswell brazil you were late to the party and somebody could actually have been abducted where they've got all this information well in the process of doing all these like i can't not meet i mean i meet witnesses all the time but i come across like i'll give an example i okay so the reason why i was getting at this is because what i wanted to say was i covered just the reports of the ufo's that do not appear to have a prosaic conventional explanation okay then i moved to uh close encounters of the third kind close encounters of the third kind is a as a coin sorry it's a phrase coined by the united states air force this guy he was a scientific advisor to project blue book uh named dr jalen heineck and he categorized these sightings into first kind second kind and third kind first kind is when someone sees the ufo up close second kind is when somebody sees the ufo up close and uh it affects the environment around them maybe burn someone's face or leaves marks on the ground or it's photographed or radar close encounter the third kind is when the witnesses report beans associated to the craft right so then i for the first time ever in my career i reported on uh close encounters of the third kind people were saying not just saw the craft i saw beans associated with the craft you can make up your own mind about that now take it to another new level then of course you've got the crashes right but then on top of that now you've got these reports of people saying they're abducted i've never reported on those cases however i have met with a couple of witnesses that i found very credible one of which is uh travis wolton fire in the sky i think it was 1975 and there were like six or seven witnesses to a disc shapecraft you could look it up but that's i consider travis walton to be extremely credible who came in direct contact with with aliens i believe that case you could look your audience who looked that one up travis walton fire in the sky there's another case that happened that i just happened to be sitting at a dinner table with it was called the alagash four and that happened in the 70s on the east coast that credible multiple eyewitnesses but that's pretty credible then of course you got betty and barney hill i think that was in the early 60s in new hampshire um that's you know thought to be pretty credible and then you know you've got all these researchers like dr john mac and uh and uh who's that guy that wrote i'll think of his name in a second but um who have done serious investigation into that but i have not so i can't speak intelligently on on these abduction cases and i think that some quite honestly seem credible and some seem uh uh too out there for me that's the ones i'd be right just too out there but you know so like what about the man in black jamesy like is this a thing as a myth because a lot of these movies they seem far-fetched but i believe a lot of them are actually telling the truth on a lot of things a lot of these movies that get created now 10 20 years ago i believe it's not telling you what's happening in the future but i believe it's what's happening now and i believe it like you say it puts people off of the thing too far-fetched but how do people come up with those ideas you go back 3000 years 5000 years egyptian times and you'll see little flying saucers and in the tombs and just how those drawings are there so there's definitely something in it but the man in black is that a thing crash like you spoke earlier there's they're picking up spaceships and covering that up and is that a thing with people try to cover it up somebody's got information they'll shut them up or shut them down maybe i can give you a couple of cases please i didn't report on why did i not report on them while i was covering i was a part of the films that i was making i came upon i came across witnesses that talked about either they shot a photograph or a video or they were a major witness to an incident and uh these men showed up at their house and they were in dark suits and they were quite intimidating then they wanted to either take the evidence or they wanted to get them to to say they they didn't see what they saw that kind of thing uh it just seemed too far-fetched to me and i and had a lot of baggage i mean one of the reasons why i think they use the word the term unidentified aerial phenomena or unidentified anomalous phenomenon a the word UFOs got baggage right you got the giggle factor and b i think it was probably a more correct um description of the phenomenon because it's not just structured craft there's other things associated with the phenomenon so i think it was a more but anyway there but when you say men in black people get the giggle factor right it's like oh yeah they think of will smith and yeah and so i avoided that i had cases in in in the 90s i had cases to shoot i had cases some respect in the 50s um there was a do you want to go into a couple of them of course yeah okay cool sometimes i think i'm in a hurry and i'm just like are you sure you guys want to go into all this your spaceship's waiting outside so uh i was investigating a little bit the 1950 mcminville or mcminville organ case that was with eval and Trent and russman paul and uh this gentleman reached out to me after i had made an announcement about it on some tv thing i was doing and he said hey i interviewed eval and Trent and i've got the interview if you like it you can have it you know and he sent me some weird format and i had to get it converted which i happily do and i did and on that interview was done in the 80s so her sighting was 1950 they had a couple of photographs great photographs and her husband and her and her self were interviewed in the 80s it might have been like 86 so whatever that been 36 years after the fact and uh she talked about these men this man that showed up from an unknown government agency he was in a suit but not like a uniform he ransacked her house he was asking all these questions she said pulled the drawer this is coming from her on camera and um so i heard about that i thought god did they have this this unknown government agency back in 1950 and then i mentioned earlier the rex halfland photographs that rex halfland it was a road worker for uh orange county in california it was like i think it was like 60 65 would be my guess on that case and he talked about these men that came from some unknown agency and they actually took his photographs and they vanished for decades um but he talks about these men in suits that were intimidating and there was just something odd very odd about them so i'd heard about it then didn't report on it that i heard about uh the u.s had an amazing case in england in the uk uh bendelstrom forest rentals from forest bentwaters happened in december 1980 and i interviewed the deputy base commander this guy colonel trolls halt and he described a plane that flew in i think from germany united states uh air force plane that flew in from germany within a day or two and uh some unknown government agency and they subjected the witnesses to sodium penthol and took the photographs that that jim penison had allegedly taken and basically this came in and kind of sanitized the whole situation so i heard about you know that didn't report on it um i was investigating the uh the alleged uh well the the case that happened in 89 90 91 over belgium i interviewed dr uh general wilfred debrauer who uh said that an unknown u.s government agent agency came in these guy in suits and they they wanted copies of the radar tapes from the from the intercepts with the uh jets to intercept this huge platform shaped craft that was the size of a football field that was hovering quietly throughout the night sky and shooting beams of light down they intercepted f-16s i think it was and debrauer told me well these men i don't know what agency they were from in the u.s but they wanted copies of the radar tapes and i said well sure you can have them but i need an official request and they wouldn't do that so they laughed i'm so i'm in i'm just like i'm hearing all these right i interviewed a general from um parviz jafari from tehran iran 1976 incredible encounter fascinating counter visual confirmation radar confirmation and um he's you can look it up your it's a it's a amazing case where they he did had a lock on this thing and then he thought he was gonna try to shoot it and parviz jafari said that his whole cockpit froze and almost like the the object that he was going to shoot anticipated that move and but he said there were men from the u.s government the next morning down in their office in tehran this is 1976 it's like really didn't report on that um 1997 phoenix arizona i'm working with a woman named francis barwood who was councilwoman uh that was quite outspoken there was a if your audience wants to google january third sorry uh march 13th 1997 there's what's commonly called the phoenix lights but it's actually a massive there were a number of ufo's but one in particular was a massive boomerang shaped object that even the governor that i interviewed five simonton said it was two miles across i mean the thing and it just very slowly floated over the city it went from north the north of arizona to the south from like seven to nine nine thirty at night um and i was investigating that case i did investigate that case for a number of different films i worked on and in the middle of the investigation probably in the late nineties probably in the late nineties um francis barwood myself she put her neck out and said hey we should launch an investigation she was getting lampooned in the press and um uh she was in touch with a witness that was a vietnam vet and he contacted her office and he said hey i've seen your you know you've said that we should launch an investigation uh i'm a vietnam vet uh at the time there was a comet called the hellbob comet that was out under the night sky and people were out there going to see so a lot more people witnessed this because they were trying to see hellbob comet and this guy was on his roof with a camera and a tripod and he was going to film the hellbob comet coming over his house or up in the sky from his house sorry and um he said that he had a uh a scanner like a cb scanner so you could hear what the truckers were talking about and there was an interstate interstate 10 that went between two sawn and phoenix and he heard the truckers talking about a huge that boomerang massive ufo that i was talking about and it was headed right his way so he filmed it with his tripod as it went right over the top of great footage according to him so he calls and i'm in fact i'm working on this whole case i did two films with it he calls francis and he says uh hey um i understand you want to investigate this case i shot footage would you like to see it she said well yeah sure and so um it made arrangements to drop it off at her office the next day well that very same day two men in black suits showed up at this guy's house and said he said they were quite intimidating and at that point i think it was a couple months later so it would have been march april could have been may or june and it's very hot in phoenix at that time of year and he said that they were wearing dark suits which was odd and he said they were quite intimidating and they said they're from francis barwood's office and we're here to pick up the footage he said he was actually quite relieved that's all they wanted and so the only question they asked him is did you make copies he said no they took the footage and left so he waits to hear from francis and he doesn't hear from her so he calls her like a week later and i'm in touch with francis about this and uh he says well what'd you think she said well i thought you're going to drop it off at my my office he's what i didn't need to you had two people from your office show up and pick it up she said i didn't say anybody around so i heard about i heard about it then and i didn't report on it okay because i was like this is just too nuts and i could just go on i could go on till tomorrow morning with these cases that i've heard okay but when i got to brazil and i met with the mother of the two daughters that came within eight to ten feet according to them of a live being creature alien whatever you want to call it i mean eight to ten feet in broad daylight three girls the mother said to me on camera these men in dark suits showed up from there were foreigners i think she used the word foreigner and they tried to bribe her and the daughters and say that i thought okay okay all right these guys exist these this is real this is real and i said i'm gonna report on this screw it and so i did so i for the first time i went all in and i reported on these men because i just couldn't ignore it anymore i was like okay i've heard so many of these that this this organization exists in fact when the secret pentagon ufo program was on the front page of the new york times called a tip advanced aerospace threat identification program leslie kane helene cooper and raff blumenthal reported on this it was a big story the do d eventually admitted the tapes were real that was a big story so the secret pentagon ufo program was revealed on the front page of the new york times and everyone's like oh my gosh the government's been investigating ufo's this whole time i said to myself yeah they have and i know they have because i've been investigating and everywhere i go they're there so they never stopped investigating ufo's sorry i lost my train of thought but you know so i knew that there was an ongoing thing oh sure i never have different names or whatever but there's some unknown and i bet you in fact i'm sure of it that that that a tip was just you know up here but the real stuff's going on way down here i guarantee you and they're taking evidence they're they're influencing witnesses um this is ongoing and i'm sure that the same organization the absurd they're still going about it today why are they keeping it hush hush now why would it be a big top secret of other beings outside of fyd feels after they need to keep everybody silent so i remember i had i've met with a number of generals from different countries but this one in particular stood out because he looked at me like because i said it was like why would any like governing body why would anybody cover up what could be the biggest discovery of our time the question that we've all wanted to know come on look look up at the stars at night and like are we alone you know nobody believes that we're alone anymore the question is is it coming here that's the question right because people go oh when they find out what i do they go oh my gosh yeah i've never thought we're alone you know it's obviously there's life and i said well yeah i think that's the consensus now i think everyone will say there's no way any statistician will tell you the odds of life is a hundred percent the question is is it coming here and i'm asking this general because i was like why would anybody cover that up it's such a great it'd be such an amazing thing to learn maybe that's why they're covered in the up well all right so here's what he said to me kind of sat there kind of shaking his head like kind of almost like you know you naive young man that don't have a clue on the lens that the military looks at this okay i'll say well what's that okay so imagine what we pay the air force to do okay we pay the air force to protect our skies we pay the air force to secure our airspace to keep us safe right excuse me if you have these objects that fly rings around our fastest jets exhibiting a technology light years advanced in anything we have they're not flying around flying around on jet a fuel excuse me you don't know where they come from what they want like what their agenda is they fly rings around our fastest jets how do you disclose that to the general public you just say like hey uh it's come to our attention that there are structured craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity they're taking people out of their beds at night not to say that's definitively happening they're flying rings around our fastest jets they're shutting our nukes off they're all around and we have no visible means of defense against them shall they turn to be hostile we don't know who they are where they come from what they want so if you think about it through that if you look at it through that lens you know it's justifiably you could kind of say okay well i see why the military would probably want to keep this quiet i mean if you look at the united states air force the united states right now they're being awfully awfully quiet um i guess it could give you some inkling as to a justification for secrecy it's got to be more to it than that because if you go back to egyptian times like we spoke earlier three thousand five thousand years ago if they're light years ahead with their technology and got crafts that can fly through the air with no sound then if they wanted to take anybody out they'd have done it years ago oh i agree that you know i agree with that years ago so i agree with that it's just but if you don't know who it is think about it you're going to open up the floodgates with inquiries imagine if they came forward and said all right this is what we know they're going to have to reveal all the things that they don't know it's going to expose all their vulnerabilities and all the things they don't understand about it like that's kind of a big deal are you going to answer some questions let's say they have the hardware okay how do you share that hardware with your friends without sharing it with your enemies think about if they've learned things from that hardware think maybe they have i don't know if they have or not i would imagine they've learned something i mean if you could somehow harness that hardware and turn it into again like military might that could be the upper hand and you know power control influence all that kind of stuff yeah so people who already control the world they could have more influence of making the world world wicked do they want it maybe i would love to thank you if those are here to give people knowledge and insight of how to have a better place do they want that technology in the hands of someone like putin or you know some of our adversary who knows so while i totally disagree with it i can i have to say i see some reasons for the secrecy i don't agree with it and everything that i've done has been pushing for transparency and answers maybe some of the answers are a little scary maybe they have maybe the phenomenon has something to do with our existence i'm not saying that's the case but maybe it is is that a little scary would it impact organized religions would it affect our financial institutions i mean i remember meeting with bigelow this guy robert bigelow he said a lot of like government contracts with the with um with with with our government on investigating UFOs um i think it was it was like aww sap that it went to atyp and there was something before that i can't remember the name of it but anyway you could look him up robert bigelow and um he's probably as an individual he's had think tanks uh scientific you know intellectual heavyweights that nids i mean the guy's been he's put more money into research into the phenomenon than any other probably any other civilian alive today and he's had government contracts so he's worked with government insiders as well so i guess what i'm trying to say is the guy is clearly in a position to know what he's talking about okay and i met with him about 10 or 11 12 years ago and he kind of like again like the naive researcher that you know because what do i know he's like james do you understand the impact this story would have on society well okay we're not alone isn't that great i think it would have a very unifying effect on all culture religions and i think it would unify us i think it'd be amazing and he just kind of laughed a little bit and he looked at me and he's like we've done some research i don't know if they researched that yeah i think on the impact of disclosure and he said that take every scandal in the history of scandals multiply that by a million and he said that's the impact it would have the truth came out talked about organized religion and financial institutions and all these things now i'm not saying that i totally what i haven't looked into it to that level that i agree with it but i can't ignore it or just completely dismiss it because of who he is he also said to me something that i've shared once or twice on a podcast and again i have to say this to your audience because people are going to go james foxes are walking among us and i'm not saying that why jose feels if you needed to defend yourself because i i have a level of access to intel folks inside and i don't want to jeopardize that yeah of course no i've asked not to tell me if i start making like wild accusations and claims that could really jeopardize the 30 years that i've worked so hard but you've came that's far i have and even if i take it back i'm not saying that they're not i'm just not saying that they are i'm saying that he told me i said what do you mean they're walking among us and he said i mean just that i mean if that's true if i'm just saying if that's true that's a big deal then oh well i'll give you another example and talk about the cover up you don't just look at what the phenomenon does you you look at what it doesn't do all they have to do is hover over you know glas go for an hour or two game over hover over the macy's day parade a football game i mean they've done that a little bit in idylline bath but nowadays it would be game over they don't do that and you have to ask yourself why don't they do that how come they haven't overtly announced their presence they've done some pretty like bold moves you know i could go into some cases where they've done some like whoa okay that's pretty pretty bold oh like landing on a joint u.s british military base um you know this thing came down and landed and was sat on the ground for like 45 minutes how do we also know that with the technology now and things looking kind of spaceship a cars tesla you know things are changing materials are changing how do you know that the government haven't created something as such as a ufo because people now talking about ufo invasions coming soon and to try and bring a one world order like you've got to stay open minded to everything even if ufo's do exist can you imagine them looking down the earth seeing the destruction religions divide and conquer people killing each other we can't even lose the homelessness we can't even get along destruction you'd actually if the world was millions of galaxies and other planets out there and we're doing it all wrong down here it makes you sad to think that why are people hurting each other why would we get money that people are full of greed and full of hate and full of pain suicide addictions so many much destruction that they must come down here and think they're off their fucking head maybe that's why they come down float around and go fuck this i'm back out of here do you know because if people actually seen the bigger scale of the universe or what actually out there it would make them realize what we're fighting for down here everybody bleeds the same there's no matter what religion you are there's no matter what color you are what age you are what human you strip all that shit back what are we we're a good human beings that humans are good when bad shit happens we tend to want to go forward and help and that's the beauty of it but there's just so much divide and we always talk about it divide and conquer people are divided they're easier to control and it's mad to think that what could be be i'd love to share with your audience a moment that i had with uh edger mitchell who was a poll of 14 and he said something so profound to me it was just first of all i said to him i've i've shared this once or twice before i said what was it like you know we're in the middle of an interview about roswell and ufos and i said i'm really sorry dr mitchell i know you've been asked this many times what was it like to go to the moon and uh he said well james he's very measured and calm and well james if you really like to know i'd be happy to tell you i said yes i would so he said that uh when they when they left earth they had to do what's called a trans lunar injection they'd go around the earth and then they had to fire the rockets and then shut the rocket get the trajectory just perfect and then shut the rockets off and then coasts for three days i think it was if they got the trajectory off they'd hit the moon and explode and die or they would ricochet off the moon and bounce off into space and gone forever right so it had to be absolutely perfect apparently but he said you might as well have been in a simulator because he was so focused on the task at hand he literally said they didn't have time to reflect on what i was actually doing and then when they got to the moon they had to detach from the lunar orbiter michael callans was in and and and go down in land and he said my job was to land the lunar module and get it right you know and land he landed and he said he shut everything all the systems off and everything he said that you you never heard a quiet like this you could hear these like macromedia rights pelting the skin of that fine paper like you know craft and nasa wanted them all to go to sleep because they'd basically been up for three straight days so they tried they jumped in their hammocks and they're trying to go to sleep but they were so excited they said we can't sleep let's go and let's go walk on the moon so they put their suits on and they go out there and he said he's bouncing around on this on this surface of the moon and he sees this oh god purple uh sorry blue white like this marble just elevate up above the lunar surface and it was this beautiful marble object that came up and he said it was just it was an earth rise and it was he said it was like an oasis and a vast darkness like he said you don't understand darkness until you've been to space like the the the vacuum of space and like the void of space and he said there was this oasis this beautiful blue marble coming up and he said it was the most magical beautiful moment of his life and he put out one glove and he held it out like that and he blocked the entire earth with one hand he said all the human race all the cultures all the like everything that he always learned in his whole life he there were no lines there were no borders it was one race one species and it had just just like to go to space to see that this deeply profound moving effect on his on his life from that moment onwards and I always think about that when I look at the moon I think about how fortunate I was to be able to talk to somebody who walked on the moon and had that epiphany had that vision to saw it and felt it I mean it's one to talk about it but you see it you know what year did he go to the moon 1972 I believe it was ain't it mad though because the footage from the footage from like 1967 or 68 with Buzz Aldrin near Armstrong 1969 July 1969 the footage looks so fake though that's the only thing that's my concern of why is people not at the moon now with better footage better cameras you know because it's talk about the boot as well with the the mat's under the boot was different and the flag moving and when the spaceship was going up who was how was the camera moving up a lot of there's it's mad to think people think the world's round flat the moon landers reveal the moon landers are fake because you've actually spoke to the person I can get why you believe yeah wow blown away yeah I was also friends with fey and Potter and was that she's the sister of of buzz Aldrin who landed on the moon with Neil Armstrong and I was really good friends with her what were you like she shared photographs of the mission with me that personal photographs that hadn't been released with NASA she had them on her wall in her house in Marksburg California and I met buzz Aldrin on a number of occasions and what I say to people because people go oh we didn't go to the moon my next door neighbor I was really good friends with we didn't go to the moon that's bullshit and I say show me one astronaut one astronaut who came forward and said it was all hoax you won't find that show me one legitimate official NASA employee there were thousands not one will come forward and tell you it was a hoax so you mean to tell me that tens of thousands of people were in on that hoax now I did bring this up with Edgar Mitchell about some of this shadows and shit of that nature he said James it wouldn't surprise me he didn't say this happened it wouldn't surprise me if some things were shot he said it was the most expensive effort in the history of mankind we had hazelblad cameras no viewfinders and we had gardening gloves on and we're supposed to get the best footage that the entire world is going to be working on do you think that we are going to come home empty handed he goes it wouldn't be surprised it wouldn't surprise me if they had backup shots or something that they did not to say that that happened but it wouldn't surprise me why you still have to be back out when it came to Apollo 13 people didn't give a shit anymore they didn't even pay attention to it the only reason why Apollo 13 got any notoriety at all because they almost perished out there they were literally relaying like they'd done with Apollo 11 back to earth people had lost interest public support for the program that was incredibly expensive waned significantly we beat the Russians we've done it mission accomplished it's a we have other resources that we could you know we money that we need to focus on other terrestrial issues and public support just waned what about Elon Musk trying to get to Mars do you think that's a possibility I do but he says that they have to figure out the the radiation exposure that's the biggest issue on how they're going to do that it's weight propulsion fuel food but the radiation exposure I'm not a specialist so I'm not the guy to talk to yeah I'm not a specialist I can only watch a few videos and make my own assumptions like it's just when they're outside this space the camera never seems to do a 360 it's always looking down and I think it's just I don't have the answers I'm not a scientist I don't know I can only watch videos you go ah it makes sense because the human mind we're so busy and caught up my own struggles in life we forget to think what's out there is that true is that fake yeah as there are other people out there and it's a beautiful thing to think there's better life out there somewhere did you ever see uh who's boy a kasha uh by Ali G Ali G goes to interview Buzz Aldrin so funny and he goes he's like he's like yo yo so it's like you know when we go and go to the sun and he's like well actually the uh sun is extremely hot and he would burn up and we'll go during the winter yeah he's like well no actually he'll well we'll just go around the backside it's like how do we know the moon is really he was expected to say how do we you know how do we how do we know we really went to the moon and he said how do we know the moon's really even there anyway he was so funny Ali G is funny Ali G was so funny oh my god Ali G and then Bora and thank you don't have your as well as David Beckham and huge yeah massive was he huge here too oh he's massive oh yeah he's funny I don't think his films he's been about shit lately but back then it was it's the the point of this but Ali G couldn't fool anybody anymore because you know everybody knows who Ali G is right but he was so funny but also I talked to some NASA officials about it because I brought it up I'm always curious to call it to be yeah always got to keep an open mind to everything and I brought it up and they're like well we have uh you can see things that we left with high-powered telescopes apparently on the moon there was a number of arguments counter arguments that NASA officials had brought up to me because I brought it up I mean it was people were really questioned like I said my one of my best friends my next door neighbor my one of my best friends like we didn't go to the moon that's bullshit you know and so I brought it up or give me the 10 strongest points and I remember these NASA officials were like because I was on a tv show called uh it was a stupid tv show I did for national geographic I'm terribly embarrassed to admit that I did it but I did it my mistake uh it was called chasing UFOs and uh but I went I got to go to uh um the original room at NASA where the headquarters for the landing operations I think it was Fort Lauderdale or was it Tex I'm sorry it might have been Texas well I should know this I should know this stuff Houston anyway um and so I talked to NASA officials and and they gave me some pretty irrefutable evidence as though we went we went to the moon yeah what about the pyramids now it's the pyramids and Egypt we talk about millions of these big fucking bits of cement just all aligned and there's little rooms and they're all two of the centimeter yeah but there's people talk about that it's from yeah other life out here who's then created that because it's in the same under some certain stars at the north star their understanding of astronomy apparently was just unbelievable and the level of precision with the construction and due north and all this stuff like I'm learning about it I've had a fascinating with Sphinx and pyramids at Giza I remember watching a documentary by John Anthony West back in the 90s called mystery of the Sphinx excuse me and I just relic weird artifacts that don't belong cave art um petroglyphs things of that nature that clearly depict what a modern day signing would be what a camera would take my picture of do you know what I mean like when I was I think there's an historical aspect to the phenomenon I think it's been going on for forever I think that I could be totally wrong and I don't know this it's not my air of expertise but I have seen extremely I mean I've I've interviewed I mean I've researched the modern day phenomenon right so I have lots of comparisons and when I see ancient cave art from 5000 years ago depicting the one Gina from the aboriginals in in in Australia or different petroglyphs or carvings of objects like wow that's very quite similar to you know Dr. Jacques fillet wrote a book called wonders in the sky I recommend looking it up it's just all photographs of all the inexplainable connections with the ancient civilizations that have talked about this and the I'm watching this documentary series right now called an ancient apocalypse by a guy named um what's what's uh he's uh he's not like he's he calls himself a journalist he's been on he works with John Anthony West I'm so sorry I can't remember his name right now he was on Joe Rogan he's a big deal but he put together this whole piece and he talks about exactly like how did they do this look how big this was these 50 50 ton or 200 ton stone blocks elevated with super high off the ground with laser like precision and the due north aspect of it all they had a profound you know understanding of of of the of astronomy back way back then and the nature of erosion they talked about this is fascinating stuff but the nature of erosion was like let's say water as opposed to wind and sand that would indicate that it wasn't built by the pharaohs it was built you know so all these little things put together a very compelling story in my opinion that you know perhaps somebody else built these things I'm not saying it wasn't us or it was us I don't know but it's quite fascinating and I've been looking into it but that's not my area of expertise what do you think of NASA they think they're here for a good purpose or a bad purpose because they've got a lot of information a lot of people they get whistle blows from time to time yeah they don't seem as if they seem to cover up a lot more than they should yeah I think I think that they've been on the cover up too I mean I interviewed that very Gary Gary McKinnon Gary McKinnon you guys can look them up it was the biggest hack in I think it was US history at the time I want to say late 90s early 2000s Gary McKinnon went on to I mean he went to a number DOD NSA and he went into a NASA site based on some testimony from a whistleblower regarding optics of of satellite imagery of UFOs things of that nature and he was on NASA and he came upon incredible he was using the process of downloading a photograph on NASA's sites but hidden from the general public of a cylindrical shape metallic cigar shaped metallic object with a little bubble on the top that was clearly taken from a satellite in space that he said it was just absolutely jaw dropping and then he got caught and he had men in suits show up at his house in England and then he was facing 70 years do you remember hearing about this yeah yeah Gary McKinnon you can look them up yeah it's it's crazy story I just interviewed him because I've always wanted to get sent to prison anyway did not not exactly it was really tough he's got limited extreme limitations on where he can travel but he faced 70 years in prison Scottish there was a Scottish guy who'd done the same Scott he was a Scottish guy yeah because I told him I'm here I told him I'm here I think it was his YouTube channel a couple of years ago to get him on I told him I'm here and he said I thought this was so beautiful oh my gosh he said please kiss the ground for me because he misses Scotland so much and he can't come here anymore for now but he he risked everything and and I I believe him I absolutely believe him and he said that there were they came upon photographs one in particular that NASA was hiding from the people so you asked me what I think about NASA NASA the head of NASA right now it was a former senator he was in Senate Intel Nelson he has made some very compelling statements regarding UAP or UFOs and the last cup very compelling but their investigation that that they got started roughly a little over a year ago they're supposed to make some announcements we'll see what happens I'm not holding my breath so for anybody that's maybe watching and it's sitting on the fence of all this what's the best thing they can watch a look up on to see okay maybe there is or anybody that's skeptical so I would say that I spent pretty much my whole adult life trying to put together the best evidence to make a case that we're dealing with something that defies a conventional explanation and I did a pretty good job putting that together for the phenomenon um because um I mean I spent well I tried it I wanted to create a body of evidence that could be uh I imagine being in a courtroom and you're presenting your case to a jury so I thought about that when I put together the phenomenon like okay let me put together some of the best archival cases some of the best archival footage some of the best archival photographic evidence government documentation and and and tell the story put the pieces of the puzzle together tell the story in a compelling and comprehensive way and it took me probably four previous films to get there but I think with the phenomenon we finally have a documentary that puts the pieces of the puzzle together in a way that you know allows the audience to to really make an informed decision on what they think is going on I guess it's the best way I could say it do you know what I mean I'm not trying to ram down anyone's throat hey et's here they've landed I don't know could it be interdimensional could it be us coming back in the future hey my my mind is open I I don't know I don't have all the answers the more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know still and I'm extremely curious the one thing I try to say is myself included as I suspend judgment listen to the eyewitness test the money and then draw your own conclusions because how big are these aircraft supposed to be because you see so many different footages so many different shapes and sizes what how big are they normally and how many people could fit in them I think there's no normally in this field but the biggest one I ever heard and I remind your audience I actually interviewed the governor that's the president of a state the governor of arizona five simonson who was also a witness he saw it with his own eyes he said the sheer size of this thing and the way it flew slowly and quietly it floated straight a mile to two miles across think about that one to two miles across I had eyewitnesses said they would lie down on their front lawn in front of their homes and watch it on their backs float over them they could see all these little compartments and metal this and like a floating city some of them described it as so that's one of the biggest UFOs I've heard of I interviewed some a police department in Dublin Texas and the officers said they shot video footage of it course the local Air Force base got their hands on that they'll be coming out with that story as soon as they leave the Dublin to police department they're gonna come the witnesses are gonna come forward but he said that he said James this object was so big it was like a floating department store I mean it was absolutely colossal and it was floating there I took my gun my sorry I had a dash cam and he said he rotated the dash cam up and filmed it and simultaneously there all the police cars were stopped in the middle of the industry parked he pulled out his radar gun and he pointed his radar gun at it and it was doing 22 miles an hour he said it was like a floating city and he had footage of it that was the Dublin police department so that's those are two examples of some of the bigger cases some of the bigger craft witnessed by very credible people and then I've got some people that see things like little orbs that are the size of a golf ball the Foo Fighters back in World War II those were little Foo Foo is fire right for French Foo and little balls of light that would fly around and obviously under intelligent control so all shapes all sizes cigar shape the case with the film I did moment of contact the alleged crash in Virginia Brazil that object was the shape funny enough it was very similar to what Gary McKinnon described a cylindrical shaped metallic cigar shaped cylindrical shaped metallic object about the size of a school bus a big school bus which I guess would be about the size of a small house but cylindrical so even you see like airplanes going missing with no wreckage do you ever think possibly it could have been one case someone's beat me up kind of one case when they talk about the what's that pyramid valentech look it up what's the pyramid when people things go missing yeah yeah but Bermuda Triangle yeah you ever think will possibly it could be something that's took it there's one case that is extremely alarming and I I said this once before and somebody but I think it's out I'm not going to say where but I heard valentech it's uh it was in Australia flying I think it was early evening out of Australia and they were flying over to is it popping again no sorry my geometry I'm trying to think but in any case you can look it up 1970s valentech it was a young pilot in his 20s and the the transmissions between him and the tower were recorded and he describes an unknown object getting closer getting closer getting it's right over the top of me getting closer then you hear a big metal clang and he was never seen ever again it's a pretty crazy case it happened in Australia in the 70s valentech you look it up and one of your documentaries there was a aircraft apparently hovering in Australia what's that one oh it's a great case 1966 Westall primary school of april 1966 and it was a landing and it was witnessed by over 300 people including the teachers and I interviewed the science teacher sky greenwood and a bunch of the um yeah that that happened broad daylight yeah and there was a gentleman a couple days earlier by the name of james kibble he was an engineer and he took a photograph of what could very likely be the object that landed at school that we one can't say definitively but it was very close like just a few miles away two days earlier a lot of times when you have a sighting like a mass sighting there'll be uh there'll be sightings in the air in and around the area for up to a week so good case yeah you want you want to speak about icig so i don't want to miss that what is that yes okay so i have a statement this your audience should would like to hear i mean some of your audience you have a more mainstream audience your audience probably doesn't really know a lot about the phenomenon about UFOs or maybe you guys are interested or not but this this event that happened last month in the united states where you had open congressional hearings of intel official david grush under oath testifying that we have crashed materials in our possession some people uh have criticized him said well he's not a first-hand witness he just came upon these programs during his investigation he was doing his job he gave all the the the details you know that couldn't be revealed publicly uh in a skiff which is an environment that's closed off from the outside and he could give the names the locations the names of the programs and all the explanations one could want but there is an individual that is on the verge of of going public and i thought that your audience might like to hear from this okay here we go hello james is the first-hand intel guy witness hello james it's been a while since we collaborated collaborated on a public statement as you know i'm working to get private industry in congress to collaborate on the uap materials and biologics yes both are part of the legacy program i know we had a few oddball comments from folks who haven't been in the program but as someone with first-hand knowledge and knowing other first-hand experiencers we have been asked to formalize our testimony through the same icig its intelligence community inspector general process that david grush went through unlike david i personally have not experienced any attacks from the government nor do d my reason for coming forward is purely to provide factual information concerning the people locations private laboratories and research facilities that exist around the world in an effort to help the investigative process it's always my hope that the do d pentagon and the legacy program people are allowed to get out from under the heavy-handed weaponization of the exotic technologies they have i believe there's a solid path for everyone to come forward without reprisal and to help mankind by making the non classified aspects more transparent and available for the sectors of our societies that involve medicine energy production and the enlightenment of our collective mindset as human beings i'm encouraged by all the hard work that many unsung heroes are doing behind the scenes and i can tell you there's a lot um as well as in the public domain i will be coming forward when the time is right i wish you and everyone you read this letter to all the blessings and goodwill they deserve the truth is now being revealed and i promise to continue doing my part anyway that's someone who not in a position to go public just yet but it's going through the process uh there's a there's a particular process that they have to go through before they can become i guess whistleblower right so that was a message from one of those individuals that we'll be hearing from probably as early as this year what would happen if you actually seen an alien or a ufo was that would that be your work complete or is that a case of i'm only just beginning what's the whole end product for you if as one but what would you do if you actually seen it with your own eyes would that make sense then well and you've not wasted 30 years 40 years um well you've not wasted it anyways yeah but you know what i mean yeah well i already know the phenomenon is real so it's not a question of do i need personal validation most people i know that claim most are very credible to have come face to face with the being from another world it doesn't really help them along in life too well you know your laugh at ready cool nobody believes you um it doesn't it's not it's not a career enhancing story so i don't think that anyone that i know and i've met quite a few who uh have had this type of experience and benefited in any way i'll give you an example i one of the most well documented close encounters of the third kind and i remind your audience that's when a witness reports an alien basically is uh in the united states uh is a case that happened in 1964 uh and the in a securo new mexico and the and the witness was a police officer on duty by the name of lani zamora and lani reported this the military got involved within an hour there's it's a super long story but the aspect of the craft was details were revealed but the alleged encounter with the beans that was something that the united states air force desperately pleaded with him i know because i talked to his family and his co-workers they wanted to downplay that aspect of the encounter because it's one thing to have um an unknown object in the sky right it's another thing to have beans on the ground talking about i mean that's very difficult to give a prosaq explanation when you're looking into the eyes of an alien right and lani's wife said to me the witness the police officer who's on duty she said uh lani was never the same after that she's like i don't know exactly what he saw but he was never the same he lost his job he became worked at a at a at a garbage uh recycle or garbage site he uh he was ridiculed and laughed at uh it was it was a horrible experience for him he didn't benefit in any way in fact he he he wanted to completely isolate himself he never went on speaking tour he never he gave if he did give an interview a handful of interviews in an entire lifetime he said don't ask me about the aliens that i saw that don't keep that apart separate he almost never talked about it so when you asked me like uh if i saw an alien um with that sort of put the whole thing to rest uh i would say based on the people that i've interviewed and met with and in cases that i've investigated it's actually had a deleterious effect on their lives made that worse you know it made it worse yeah because who's going to believe you yeah you know i mean first of all you're just going to get laughed at no one's going to believe you you know anything to question i like because i remember when we interviewed military x in moment of contact and i'm looking in this guy's eyes and i'm thinking to myself this guy probably drove an alien around probably and i was telling joe rogan about it said uh did did you i said well it wasn't it didn't it's been horrible for him i was like why has he been horrible the guy like got to see an alien that's been horrible so yeah the guy's been having to look over his shoulder the secrecy around it like you know all the speculation about the case and everything that's going on and this guy's walking around with the biggest secret he's harboring the weight of that on his shoulders can't talk about it with his family can't talk about with his friends he's been threatened his life he gets calls from the military base to remind him of his oath and not talk about you know how you doing are you still living here how your kids you know like keep your mouth shut you know kind of thing and i could see that in the movie you're we're filming him from the back but i'm looking him dead square in the eyes i could see the toll that that has taken on this gentleman's life he hasn't benefited in any way shape or form in fact quite the contrary so um i get people like i went to this expo uh last week and i i couldn't believe like how many people came up to me and gave me a hug and shook my hand i was like so touched like what they said you're you're the one person you're one of very few people that we can come to and talk to and tell what we experience and we know that you're not going to laugh at us you know and so it's it's not uh i don't think that anybody benefits really that i can think of yeah from from seeing that unless it you know i guess it came out and was officially acknowledged by by governments around the world and um if you want we can talk about the the politics of disclosure a bit because that's something i'm going to be covering in my new movie because i i used to think it's something super simple sorry if i'm like okay excuse me um let me get a glass of water i used to think like it would be simple like the government like the president of the united states we have literally a section in our upcoming movie called the politics of disclosure and i used to think for decades that the president of the united states would come forward and step at the podium and say my fellow americans it's been brought to my attention that this is going on blah blah blah right and then i started thinking about it the president of any country it's probably hated by half the population right so then it's like this politicized thing so then the president's going to make this huge announcement and then the president what is he going to like have access to are they going to if you if you make that kind of statement you better have proof to back it up of the intel folks going to produce everything they've got um is it it's not a job for congress it's not a job for people in the senate or or the house in the united states certainly it's not their job right so is it a job for the united nations is it a panel of international scientists well if that's the case then they're going to have to produce definitive proof right let's see the craft let's see the bodies what do you got you better show me more than a photograph so now suddenly these intel folks are going to have to produce the evidence they've got they've got means and ways as well right you got killer satellite photography over iraq and you've got you know whatever or wherever you are you're going to reveal the the means and ways but now they're going to have to share how you're going to announce that you have it not show it and how you're going to show it to your friends without sharing it with your enemies we're going to keep that from the rest of the world i know it seems like this easy thing but honestly it's very it's a it's almost impossible like i'm interviewing this guy talking with this with this guy right now who uh who said to me that the bush jr administration president bush the one that took us to war in iraq that administration not his father and uh apparently he convened a panel to disclose this whole story i don't know how long this panel was convened for whether it was a year or whether it was two but he said that they they came back and realized it couldn't be done i said well what do you mean it couldn't be done they were like well think about it if you start going down the different avenues of all right let's try this that doesn't really work you try going down how does it how do you do it and then you got america which represents such a small percentage of the world population we're going to tell the rest of the world that we're not alone hey guess what world to the other 97 of you we you know what i mean like do you get in touch with other world leaders what do they know like what does russia have what does china have like i i don't know man i don't know how they i don't know how they're gonna do it i really don't but it's not easy what about in tartica i know now that i've heard about it i know linda moulton how is is deeply into that uh i personally have never met any witnesses from i never heard any credible testimony of underground bases there it would certainly be a great spot if there were but um i i just could open my mouth and i wouldn't have anything intelligent to say but i but i will say this i was doing this uh you know after after the phenomenon came out in uh 20 shoot it was the end of 2020 so there was almost 2021 it was like kind of the film of 2021 during the pandemic it was like aliens UFOs you know it's probably one of the reasons why it was as successful as it was everyone's locked up in their houses watching aliens right but uh um i was putting together this uh thing called the uap transparency uh act or something basically what it was was hey let's get everybody to sign a petition we're gonna talk about what we now know what's happening behind the scenes and see if we can get people to sign on and and and encourage our government uh affect officials to uh support transparency on the topic and i was working with this intel guy and he goes hold on a second now to change that language i said why well uh maybe they might be living in our oceans i say excuse me he's like well just change it because you know because then it's just if you if you leave it this way then then all the possibilities are still on the table i said wait i'm hanging on a second do you know something that i don't and that was the end of it but this individual was pretty you know it was just me and him and i thought you know and then you have reports from david fravour and other people of these things coming in and out i don't know so you asked me about antartica i knew nothing you asked me about oceans i've heard credible reports from people in submarines people in the navy saying there are things in our oceans that we cannot explain no question because before before when that was 80 percent or something huge i've never yeah i've never seen i've never even did yeah and they come apparently they come out of the water almost as quickly as they go in it's almost like it's almost like the two different atmospheres or something don't don't affect the propulsion of the craft or something they go in and out like it's nothing what i'm not a witness but that's what i've heard so if someone sees an unknown object surely there's there's radars surely there's people in towers who can track to see if there's been objects in that area there must be something logged in to say okay there's an object here we don't really know what it was but it's went away and this speed or is the unknown objects UFOs fly under the radar how does it work is anybody have a so there's a very faint spoke to pilots and stuff yeah come on the radar that there's some objects there so i'll give an example that i know about and that's the nimix nimitz case and it happened in 2004 off the coast of san diego about 200 miles off the coast uh david fravor there was that one uh female pilot kit kiln rich i'd have to look over name and um they said that they had radar data there are the people in the on the ships were picking up objects that were going from 80 000 feet and 80 000 feet is basically space i guess and it would go from 80 000 feet down to sea level in the blink of an eye and this was going on for if days if not weeks and finally i guess they got enough they got a report of some things on the radar and that's when the now infamous encounter with the tic tac with david fravor the pilot with the navy and david fravor is is asked to go and intercept go and investigate this whole thing and this dramatic encounter with this tic tac shaped object you know lasts for several minutes and um i i i guess they go and uh david fravor has this incredible cat and mouse with this thing it's all out there and then he lands and then somebody else goes up and he manages to film this object i guess with fleer forward uh infrared where's the fleer stand for it but it's basically uh heat signatures right so it's picking up this like tic tac and that's the now infamous tic tac shaped white object that shoots off to the side well those tapes uh that footage of the tic tac was walked out of the panagon and onto the front page of the new york times and that's probably why you and i are even having this conversation right now but apparently the logs and the radar the radar tapes of all of this during that window are all gone and nobody knows what happened to those so the logbooks and the radar could give us so much more information right but they're all it's all gone so there's you know there's there's there's unfortunately an effort to to cover this stuff up just like calvin calvine ufo photograph disappeared six of them and the witnesses because that case is incredibly compelling you've got six photographs broad daylight with a harrier jet and two witnesses and points of reference that's rare and it's on film so you can study the you know you can do the analysis from from the negatives does your life ever become and danger you know i think the only time in my opinion the only time i mean look there's no question that i've been i at the very least monitoring what i'm up to i'm no question about that um but the only time i would be concerned is if let's just say i went to brazil again which i'll probably be doing at some point and i did manage to get my hands on the videotaped evidence of the creature that was in captivity at humanitas hospital or maybe at the military base or campinas um i would be legitimately concerned for my for my safety until i could get and i've thought about that like what would i do let's say i make the deal and i've been in negotiations with a number of different people for about a year now um how do i actually execute that do i bring cash what you're going to give me the footage before you get the cash do i give you the cash first then i get the footage now i've got the footage you've got the cash i'm in the depths of of of brazil and now i gotta get out of brazil well what happens if the government gets win i mean the government i mean the military base was already making phone calls to people that we had just met with who we were about to meet with so they're hip to what i'm doing i'm not hiding it i'm down there interviewing people in the streets i'm interviewing the mayor right it's no secret i'm down there doing what i'm doing but let's just say that i did have that footage okay i have whether whatever put suspend judgment for a moment if i had video of flip an alien okay in my position it was shot by military that i'm bought off a military witness and i'm trying to sneak that out of the country i would be legitimately concerned for my safety absolutely yes now i thought about like when that day comes and i think it will how do i do it it's probably going to be on an older format right unless i get them to digitize it it'll be on an old format from the 90s right do i upload it to a server can i upload it from a server do i need to go to someplace like how do i physically get that out of the state out of the country of brazil and back to the united states that's that's something that you know that worries me a little bit yeah it seems easy right i just go meet with but people don't realize that the witnesses are terrified witnesses that just want to talk about what they saw are terrified now imagine if you got video evidence of of that creature that alien that bean whatever you want to call it you know that would be reason for concern no question about it no question about it could aliens be living among us now yes it could be and human form just another disguise and i've met i've met a number of very credible people that have told me that's the case i don't just believe it because somebody told me i haven't seen one that i know of and uh but if it were true that's that would that be pretty crazy but i have brought it up i've heard it firsthand from military folks military folks say that again military folks deep on the inside have told me this not one not two but probably more than that three or four and then i've met with some people that i trust and i've said hey i've heard this account and i've heard that account do you believe that could be true and it's kind of like a little nod like like they barely even want to say to think kind of like yeah it could be so i have not like you said i have to keep an open mind and i can't just dismiss something because i find it to be outrageously unbelievable and that does sound that way and i could imagine that your audience say this guy james fox just lost me because he's saying now that they're aliens walking among us i'm not saying that i'm saying that i've heard very compelling accounts from credible witnesses some in the military that have seen them and came face to face with them and they've told me that i can't just like my men in black it took me like 20 years to come around i'm in the coming round process on that i think you'd be surprised that the amount of people actually think like that that there is people among us if you actually look up to the sky you just if you're not asking that question there's something else out there then you're fucking to a place with life you've just got to be very different from asking the question are we alone in the universe through are they walking among us yeah but i feel as if we're at that stage now where something's not quite right hopefully they're here if they are for a good reason and it's to try and guide and help and make life better but right now the world seems a bit in turmoil seems a bit messy definitely seems like a turning point that's for sure i mean it's interesting that all these things coming to a head on on on planet earth right now and yet paralleling all that is this unprecedented push for transparency and end transparency on a story that could possibly change the course of history that could possibly be a paradigm shifting story it's like i've said this countless times on this podcast if any of this is true it's the biggest story of modern history i personally feel and i and i know that a lot of people would agree with me on this that it would have that similar effect that edger mitchell felt on the moon when he looked back at planet earth as this little blue marble suspended in a vacuum of deep space and this oasis of life all one race one species you know no borders no um no differences just you know one people just equal and i really i really believe that that that this story would have that similar effect on us i really do and i've said that for decades why do you think we're here humans i have no idea we're not here to fight and kill each other i'll tell you that much yeah definitely not where do you go forward for the future then james a boy well so uh it's interesting i'm so i'm doing a documentary right now i'm about 80 percent of it's shot i say shot but it's captured on camera i'm going back to dc in about a week and i want to put a laser-like focus on where the evidence is and who has the authority to release it i want to talk about the politics of disclosure i want to talk about what's gone down between 2017 and today because there's a lot of stuff that's gone down and and yeah the politics of disclosure and then um you know hopefully i can like focus on other things that i have interested life i'm not just interested ufo's i'm raising a kid i have i have a nine-year-old that i love him dearly and uh i live out in the country and on the east coast of america and and uh i love hiking and biking and swimming and you know all the things and i love doing those with my son uh so uh but i have to strike while the iron's hot so i'm staying focus on this topic it's it's never been more i think relevant and and um point of focus like something something's happening something big is happening and anyone who's paying attention could tell you that this is this is unprecedented what's happening and um i think sit tight because you look at babies and kids it's the most precious thing on the planet oh my gosh so why do we stay so focused on work our business but really should we be focused on the kids to then because nothing else matters who gives a fuck if somebody was on the moon or there's aliens or whatever when you're with your your child that's life that's complete nothing else matters oh yeah i know i i think about why do you do it then well i just think about well no question about it i'll give an example this is the most beautiful moment in the last 10 years of my life i was riding my son so uh lived in a small town i've moved since then but at the time and it was you know like a couple miles to my son's school and it would be a great way for me in the morning to get some exercise so i would throw my son in this little seat that i had on the front handlebars you know and you put his little how it on and he was young and we'd ride the bicycle together no electric it was just all manual right now get a nice workout and um and i'm i'm wrapping up the phenomenon you know which was a colossal like the last 10 percent of getting a film across the finishing line actually is extremely challenging there's so