Stories and content in Weird Darkness can be disturbing for some listeners and is intended for mature audiences only. Parental discretion is strongly advised. The world of cryptozoology is no stranger to odd footprints found throughout the world, coming in a wide variety of sizes and with their own peculiarities. These tracks often leave bewilderment, bafflement, and spur-on questions after questions to their origins about what sort of creature could have made them. The answers for what caused them are not always completely clear, but they invariably are cause for much debate and speculation. Among these anomalous prints are those that are from far-flung destinations yet seem to share some similar traits, that of some hoofed creature that has left its footprints behind and which have caused debate as to whether they are caused by the same strange creature, a hoax, or just a curious coincidence. By far the most well-known and widely circulated stories of such mysterious footprints is that of the original Devil's Footprints of Devon, England. I'm Darren Marlar, and this is Weird Darkness. Welcome, Weirdos! I'm Darren Marlar, and this is Weird Darkness. Here you'll find stories of the paranormal, supernatural, legends, lore, crime, conspiracy, mysterious, macabre, unsolved, and unexplained. If you're new here, welcome to the show, and if you're listening to the podcast or on YouTube, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. And if you're already a Weirdo, please take a moment and invite somebody else to listen to. Recommending Weird Darkness to others helps make it possible for me to keep doing the show, and while listening, be sure to check out WeirdDarkness.com where you can find all of my social media or drop me an email. Coming up in this episode… Picture this. You're called to the scene of a murder. The victim's shotgun was found in his room. It's been used some time recently and there was an empty cartridge on the floor. There was, however, no blood or any other obvious signs of violence in the house, and something else odd. A pot in the kitchen was discovered to contain large amounts of strychnine. It sounds like one of those murder mystery party games you solved with friends, but this is from a true murder mystery in Australia that still fascinates those who study the case. What do a Jesuit missionary and a former slave have in common? The answer? Bigfoot. The FBI described Israel Keys as one of the most meticulous and vile serial killers in American history. So much so, he even had the FBI scratching their heads. But first, one morning in 1855, citizens of the English town of Devon were surprised to find strange footprints about town in the snow. Not just on the streets and sidewalks, but on their doorways and on the house roofs, haystacks, walking up walls and through pipes. The tracks covered over a hundred miles and there was no explanation of how the prints were made. But many had a theory about who made the prints. They say it was the devil. We began with that story.  One cold winter morning in 1855, the residents of Devon, England woke to a strange sight. The area was blanketed with snow from the night before and it seemed as if everything was frosted in white. Residents were surprised to find a long track of strange, hoof-like prints that seemed as if they must have been freshly made. The individual prints reportedly measured around 4 inches long and 3 inches wide and seemed to have been made in a nearly perfect single file line, with each print spaced between 8 to 16 inches from each other. They looked to be cloven and from something bipedal. In short, like tracks from nothing the locals had ever seen, and they meandered through the snow for between 60 to 100 miles depending on the report. This wasn't the only one of Devon's strange occurrences, but for decades the so-called Devil's Footprints have perplexed both skeptics and believers alike. While Devon is perhaps the most popular instance of Devil's Footprints, similar incidents have occurred throughout history and around the world. The bizarre footprints that appeared on Devon's snowy countryside followed no discernible path, and they appeared in more than 30 different locations all over the town's south and east ends. They meandered across dozens of miles, even leading up to people's doorsteps, frightening the residents. As odd as this all was, what made it all even stranger was the bizarre route that these prints took, going right up over walls, along narrow fencing, overhouse roofs, through barns, haystacks, gardens and courtyards, across frozen lakes, fields and spookily often seeming to come right to people's front doors, as if whatever had made the prints had been intently investigating these homes. Oddly, in some cases, it seemed as if the prints had entered and exited pipes that were only around four inches in diameter, passed through locked gates or seemed to wander straight up trees as well as in totally enclosed or locked off areas and other improbable places. The unexplained tracks shortly acquired the nickname, the Devil's Footprints, or Tracks of Satan, thanks in part to their hoof-like shape. This supernatural implication was aided by the track's unexplainable miles-long path. Devon's Devil's Footprints covered up to 100 miles of land, reaching as far as Topsham, Dollish and Tainmouth. According to some reports, the tracks may also have reached as far south as Totness or Torquay and as far away as Dorset or Lincolnshire. Overall, the strange prints were found spanning an area of anywhere from 40 to 100 miles making most rational explanations seem completely implausible. Without a fresh snowfall, the distinctive marks would have been imperceptible to locals. Moreover, while accounts of the snowfall's heaviness seemed to vary, most agree not only that the previous night was particularly cold, but that a thaw occurred sometime before morning, which may have allowed animal tracks to become distorted. Skeptics often point to this theory to explain the bizarre phenomenon of the Devil's Footprints. Non-paranormal explanations have encompassed everything from hoaxes or the distorted tracks of mice, birds, rabbits, badgers, ponies, horses and even escaped kangaroos. Mike Dash, a Welsh writer and historian, proposed that the tracks were made by several different animals at once, though he conceded at the end of his study that his solutions did not explain all of the tracks' elements and they are still a mystery waiting to be solved. Other theories were things like raindrops falling and creating the depressions, and the even more far-out theory attributed to British novelist Geoffrey Household, who claimed that the tracks were actually made by some sort of experimental balloon accidentally released from the Devonport Dockyard. According to Household, a pair of shackles dangled from the balloon's mooring ropes and their intermittent dragging left the tracks in the snow. Household claimed to have learned of this event from a man whose grandfather had worked at the docks in 1855. While this explanation initially seems feasible, the theory is not entirely sound. The notion of a drifting balloon leaving uniformly spaced tracks seems very implausible, and what's more, no such balloon was ever reported. According to Household's account, however, the event was covered up after the balloon caused some damage and eventually landed near Honiton. People came to believe that the devil walks in Devon, as newspapers would later claim, and took the staying indoors after dark. Some observers even claimed the tracks appeared burned or branded into the snow. This claim was seemingly substantiated 102 years later after the original Devon incident, when in 1957 an anthropologist and psychical researcher reported hoof prints found on a Devon beach that looked as if each mark had been cut out of the sand with a flat iron. These 1957 hoof prints were also spaced six feet apart, implying a much longer stride than those reported in 1855. Also in 1957, Linda Hanson wrote to The Forty in Times detailing tracks she found in her parents' garden. Her description matched the devil's footprints of 1855 almost exactly, and beneath these tracks she claimed to see dry concrete as if the tracks had not just melted the snow but transformed it. According to some accounts, people genuinely came to believe the devil was responsible for the tracks and refused to venture outside after dark. Convinced the devil was still prowling Devon, they claimed he could sniff out their sins. Further fueling their fears was the manner in which the footprints seemed to approach doorways and then stop, as if the creature responsible was keenly interested in the people on the other side. While some sources claim the phenomenon was widely covered in newspapers at the time, firsthand accounts of the devil's footprints were difficult to locate for many years. Not until 1950 did accounts of the event return to the public eye. References to the incident were discovered in records from the former vicar of Kleist St. George. Among these papers were tracings or sketches of the tracks themselves, as well as a letter to the illustrated London News marked Not For Publication. The letter described the tracks as the perfect impression of a donkey's hoof, but instead of progressing as that animal would have done, or indeed as any other animal would have done, feet right and left, it appeared that foot had followed foot in a single line. Furthermore, the letter noted that the tracks were found in multiple perishes and that in every case they were the exact same size, about 4 inches by 2 inches and always the same distance apart. Several courageous individuals attempted to follow the strange tracks and some reported strange findings. A story credited to Reverend J. J. Rowe and R. H. Busk claims the pair tried to follow the trail with hounds, but at last in a wood the hounds came back baying and terrified. Another report tells of a man who followed the prints to their apparent end when he found nothing but a toad. Since the prints in Devon were so numerous and covered such a broad area, multiple sources were likely responsible. This is one of the underlying tenets of skeptics who claim at least some of the hoof prints were likely the work of hoaxers if the marks existed at all. As Brian Dunning points out on the hoof prints episode of the Skeptoid podcast, the very length of the trails discredits the notion that any one source could possibly have seen all the tracks. In 1855 the means didn't really exist in Devon to travel a hundred miles in a single day to verify the length of this track, especially when the ways obstructed by two mile stretches of water, Dunning said. In detailing the various fantastic properties of the footprints, Dunning reaches what he considers a foregone conclusion. Is there really any reason to believe that this happened? Skeptics have attempted to advance a pantheon of reasonable explanations for the devil's footprints. Interestingly, on March 5, 2009 it seems that there was a very similar phenomenon reported from precisely the same area. In this case a resident named Jill Wade of Woolserie, North Devon claimed to have found a strange line of pointed cloven hoof-like footprints in freshly fallen snow in her own backyard. Wade reported that the tracks were five inches long with a stride of between 11 and 17 inches and stretched on for 60 to 70 feet across the garden in an arch-like shape, starting at her window and going out to the other side of the yard where they disappeared. The bizarre tracks were examined by a biologist with the Center for Forty in Zoology, C.F.Z. Graham Inglis, who noticed their striking similarity to the devil's footprints of 1855 from the same vicinity, could not find an easy answer to what made them. However, Inglis did have reservations about jumping straight to a paranormal explanation. Instead of the tracks, this is certainly a first for me. The footprints are peculiar, but they are not the devil's. I don't believe the horned one has been in Woolserie. Personally, I think it belongs to a rabbit or hare, but quite an academic punch-up has started over it. In his book, The Case for the UFO, astronomer Morris K. Jessup mentions the devil's footprints of Devon, hypothesizing that no animal walks by putting one foot directly in front of the other, so these holes in the snow were made with a mechanical precision by something mechanical. Therefore, let's make the broad conclusion that something mechanical passed over Devon in the air. Jessup goes on to theorize that the marks were possibly the result of some type of ray or beam. While the devil's footprints of Devon are rather well-known, more obscure cases of a very similar phenomenon have come in from various places around the world. One such account comes to us from May of 1840 on the remote Kurgulian Islands of the southern Indian Ocean. These windswept rocky swaths of treeless frozen land are surrounded by mercilessly rough gray waters and are located more than 3,300 kilometers or 2,051 miles from the nearest traces of civilization, Madagascar Island, making them one of the most isolated places on earth and earning the islands their nickname, Les de la Desolation, the Desolation Islands. The only plant life to be found here in this chilly uninhabited domain are some lichens, mosses, and grasses, and the only animal life here are a few species of insect, seals, and some seabirds and penguins, as well as feral rabbits, cats, and sheep that have been introduced by passing ships. In May of 1840, Captain Sir James Ross found himself on these shores as part of an expedition to catalog the plant and animal life of the archipelago's main island of Grand Terra. The island was described as being mostly a barren, lifeless wasteland of sparse lichens and moss, with no land animals seen at all. Indeed, at the time there were no introduced large land animals present on the island and the only creatures to be found were insects, seabirds, and seals along the coast. It was for this reason that one discovery would be all the more bizarre. One small detachment led by a lieutenant bird came across a rather odd site as they went about searching the inhospitable snow-swept land for any sign of life. There, in the freshly fallen snow, was a line of horseshoe-shaped hoof-like tracks measuring three inches long and two and a half inches wide, which meandered through the snow for a while before disappearing in a rocky area without snow. Since the island had proven to be devoid of any large land animals and the expedition had no horses or ponies, it was baffling as to what could have possibly made the prince. In the end, Lieutenant Bird speculated that a horse, pony, or donkey must have been left there by a previous expedition or made it to the island from a wrecked ship. But considering that a horse would have died in the Arctic conditions of the island on its own, if it was a castaway, then it must have arrived there fairly recently, and there had been no sign of any other expeditions or shipwrecks in the vicinity at all. Could these prints have possibly been left by a horse or pony that had been left there by someone or had even more improbably escaped a wreck and managed to swim to shore through unforgiving rough waters full of choppy waves and deadly currents? Or was this something else? It also seems improbable that it could have been a hoax, considering no one else was there. It remains a mystery. Yet another unexplained set of Devil's Footprints was found in 1945 near Everberg, Belgium. On January 10th of that year, a curious set of bizarre prints was found etched into the snow on a hill behind a place called the Chateau de Morveaux. The hoof-like prints measured 2.5 inches long by 1.5 inch wide and were composed of a series of a pair of two prints 9 inches apart that then formed a perfect single file line of tracks spaced 12 to 15 inches apart, as if whatever had made them had been hopping along. The tracks wandered for several miles across the hillside, forest, fields, and a stream, and strangely they went right over some deep snow drifts, yet there was no sign of an animal's body sinking within the snow. Only those odd footprints perched atop the frozen white. Locals in the area had never seen anything like it, and one man who investigated the prints, an Eric Frank Russell specifically said that they were reminiscent of the Devil's Footprints of Devon in 1855. Although some have theorized that the tracks were made by a goat, which are common in the area, the Belgian prints have never been satisfactorily explained. Other cases similar to Devon's Devil Footprints have been reported all over the world, but Cathedral in Munich is home to a single tile bearing a footprint said to have been made by a frustrated devil tricked into eating the cathedral's construction. Similarly, a stone in a rock wall in Manchester Main bears marks left behind when a construction worker struck a deal with the Devil to move the large stone. At the Devil's Gate Dam in Pasadena, California, photographers have captured images of claw marks in stone. A comic book series called The Devil's Footprints, written by Scott Alley, received its title and inspiration from a legend Alley remembered from his hometown. The Devil reportedly showed up at the local church in the old town, and the priest chased him up the steeple. The Devil jumped and left one footprint in the stone outside. Are any of these cases of mysterious tracks related? They certainly share some similar traits in their size, appearance, disposition, and the fact that they keep showing up in the strangest of far-flung places. They could be unrelated, but even if they are, we are left with the question of what formed them. Was this the work of known animals, strange weather or atmospheric phenomena, hoaxers, or something else? Whatever the cause may be, one wonders when the next set of these bizarre, clothing tracks will turn up next and what significance they will have. And while there may very well be a mundane explanation at their root, they still manage to incite debate and stir the imagination. Coming up, the victim's shotgun was found in his room, used recently with an empty cartridge on the floor and a large amount of strict nines found in his kitchen. No blood anywhere. Apparently somebody really wanted the man dead, but also wanted it kept a secret. Why? Plus, what do a Jesuit missionary and a former slave have in common? Bigfoot, of course! Those stories and more when Weird Darkness returns. Are you a member of the Darkness Syndicate? The Darkness Syndicate is a private membership where you receive commercial-free episodes of the Weird Darkness podcast and radio show. Behind the scenes, video updates about future projects and events I'm working on. You can share your own opinions on ideas to help me decide upon Weird Darkness Contests and events. You can hear audiobooks I'm narrating before even the publishers or authors get to hear them. You also receive bonus audio of other projects I'm working on outside of Weird Darkness. You get all of these benefits and more, starting at only $5 per month. Join the Weird Darkness Syndicate at WeirdDarkness.com-Syndicate. That's Weird Darkness.com-Syndicate. True crime historian William Roehead once commented that the setting of a great crime should be properly forbidding. Murder to be fully effective, he said, should be done out of doors and if possible amid surroundings agreeably savage. One in Ghana Station, a cattle ranch located in an isolated valley in Australia's Victoria Alps is to this day a harsh and lonely spot. In the early 20th century, it was as out of doors and agreeably savage a place as any murder fancier could hope to find. So far as I know, the Edinburghian Mr. Roehead had never even heard of the place, but it would have gratified him immensely to know that One in Ghana hosted one of Australia's most notorious murder mysteries. Beginning sometime in 1916, One in Ghana Station was run by a man named James Bargley. He'd been working alone there for some time, but in December 1917, he hired one John Bamford to act as Cook and General Handyman. The two seemed a mismatched couple. Bargley had a good reputation both professionally and personally, but Bamford was widely disliked as he was a quick-tempered, surly sort who was fond of quarreling. There were even rumors that he'd murdered his wife. However, the two men seemed to get on well enough. About a week after Bamford was hired, the pair traveled to the town of Talbotville, about 20 miles from the station, in order to vote on a referendum on introducing the military draft. If any of you are curious, it is recorded that the pair voted the same way, but it's lost to history whether they were for or against the measure. They spent the night at the home of a mutual friend, Albert Stout, and the next morning, December the 21st, the two men began the ride back to One in Ghana, little knowing that their recent votes would prove to be totally irrelevant to either of them. The next time anyone had any reason to visit One in Ghana was on January 22, 1918, when a local man named Harry Smith visited the station to deliver some mail. He was perplexed to find no one there. The only clue to the whereabouts of the men was the message, Home Tonight, written on the door of the kitchen. Assuming that one or both of the men returned up at any moment, Smith decided to wait around for them. When, after two days, there was still no sign of Barclay or Bamford, Smith gave up. Without making any further investigation, he shrugged off the mystery and returned home. On February 14, Smith returned to One in Ghana. When he saw that nothing had been touched since his last visit, the unopened mail was just as he had left it and Barclay's dog Baron was obviously starving, it finally dawned on Smith that something very awful must have happened. He stayed there overnight, doing a fruitless search for some sign of the men, and the next morning traveled to the nearest town, Dargo, to report that Barclay and Bamford had vanished. He also sent telegrams to the ranch's owners, alerting them to what had happened. Police were notified and a search party was quickly assembled. The bedrooms of the two men were disarranged as if they had been ransacked. Some of Bamford's possessions, including his horse, were missing. The horse, which was lacking its saddle and bridle, was later found running wild over the plains. Barclay's shotgun was found in his room. It had been used some time recently and there was an empty cartridge on the floor. There was however no blood or any other obvious signs of violence in the house. Honest of all, a pepper pot in the kitchen was discovered to contain large amounts of strict night. Less than a quarter mile from the house, the search party's worst fears were realized when they discovered a man's skull poking out of a shallow grave. A bit of digging uncovered the rest of the body. The belt and tobacco pouch found with it helped identify the corpse as that of James Barclay. Barclay's autopsy revealed that he had been killed by a single shot through the back. Time of death was estimated as sometime between December 21st and January 4th. Note strict night was found in his system. While no one could say why Barclay was murdered, police had little trouble naming his probable murderer, John Bamford. It seemed obvious that the two had fought after which Bamford shot his employer, grabbed a few belongings and fled. A reward of £200 was offered for any information regarding this dangerous fugitive and a statewide manhunt was on. The hunt for Bamford dragged on without finding the slightest trace of him. It was as if he had somehow managed to vanish from the face of the earth. His whereabouts remained an utter mystery until early November 1918 when the search ended in a most unexpected way. Some men were scouring the Howett Plains, an area about 20 miles from the station and near where Bamford's horse had been recovered. They came across an old abandoned hut. Outside of this hut was a pile of logs. The logs they noticed had a man's boot sticking out from under them. Attached to this boot was what was left of the erstwhile murder suspect John Bamford.  The authorities were disconcerted to realize that they were dealing with not just one bizarre unsolved murder, but two. To this day this is about all we know for certain about the deaths of James Barkley and John Bamford. The police had no success whatsoever in solving the riddle of why the men were killed, let alone by whom. Naturally, many theories have been floated in the century since they died. Perhaps Bamford killed Barkley only to be assassinated by his victim's friends in revenge, or were both men slain by some passing robbers or horse thieves. Was James Barkley, who had a reputation as a ladies man, killed by some jealous rival, who then murdered Bamford in order to silence the only witness to the crime? Could Harry Smith, the first man to alert the world to the mystery, have known more than he ever let on? Who knows? As for that strict nine-filled pepper pot, well, as far as I know, no one has ever even tried to explain that one. The one-and-gottos station murders have remained one of Australia's most solution-defying crimes. Adding to the enigma in a statement made by Barkley's son, James Jr., when he was interviewed about the case in the 1970s, he commented, It was all a long time ago, and both the murderers are long since dead. I can't see that anything can be gained now, it's all best forgotten. Both the murderers? What did the younger Barkley know about the mystery? And why does he obviously wish it to remain a mystery? Some of the strongest sources of anecdotal evidence regarding the existence of the Sasquatch are those that predate the coining of the term Bigfoot in an article about a cat-skinner named Jerry Crew who found massive human-like tracks around his road-building equipment in California's Six Rivers National Forest in August of 1958, and the explosion of the Patterson-Gimlin footage on the world stage in October of 1967. Sightings reported before these two seminal events cannot be dismissed as the work of hoaxers seeking to hop on the Bigfoot bandwagon. The Sasquatch was all but unknown to the Europeans who began flooding the North and South American continents in the 1500s, and to the slaves that they brought with them. Their accounts of bipedal, hair-covered creatures simply cannot be dismissed out of hand. I'd like to discuss here two such historical sightings. The incidents are not well known, but they may well be extremely important when attempting to trace just how far back sightings of wood apes might go. The similarity between these two accounts cannot be denied, and both lend credibility to the opinion of those who believe the animal commonly referred to as Bigfoot was being seen well before the 1950s by people of different cultural backgrounds living many miles apart. The first incident comes directly from the writings of a Jesuit missionary who worked among the people of the province of Sonora, Mexico, a region that stretched up from northwest Mexico to the Sierra Madre near the California coast to Tucson in the 18th century. Father Ignaz Peffercorn, a German Jesuit, lived and worked among the Pima Indians from 1756 to 1767. Details of his work and life among these people can be found in his description de la Provincia de Sonora. The diaries, journals, and logs of missionaries have long been highly valued by anthropologists and historians. Peffercorn's work was no different, and he is considered by academics to have been an extremely reliable and credible observer. His writings continue to be cited by historians to this day. Among Peffercorn's writings were descriptions of the local wildlife. Among the descriptions of what would be considered common animals, the good father wrote about the different bears differentiated by their color found in the region. He wrote, of the Sonora bears some have black hair, others dark gray, and the smallest number are a reddish color. These last are the most cruel and harmful, according to the statements of herdsmen. Only two species of bear are known to have ever lived in the province of Sonora during the 18th century, the black bear and the grizzly. They both made Sonora part of their home range during the time in question. While black bears can be black, blonde, or reddish, it is likely the cinnamon colored bears that were the most cruel and harmful, the grizzlies. While these grizzlies were likely the animals most often responsible for the killing of livestock in the region, some of the other activities attributed to them may well have been the work of something else. Peffercorn, while documenting bear activity related to him by the indigenous tribesmen, in some cases may have actually been recording accounts of Bigfoot interacting with humans. If so, his accounts are some of the earliest ever written down in North America. Here's one intriguing passage. Bears are a special menace to stock-raising, for they eat many a calf, and if no smaller prey falls into their clutches, they will attack even horses, cows, and oxen. They delight especially in eating maize as long as it is still tender and soft. Woe to the field if a hungry bear breaks into it at night. He eats as much as he can and makes off with as much as he can grasp and carry in his mighty arms. In so doing, he ruins even more of the field by breaking it down and treading upon it. The inhabitants assert that a bear defends himself by throwing stones when one attempts to chase him away, and that a stone hurled from his paws comes with much greater force than one thrown from the hand of the strongest man.  Hefferkorn was familiar with bears. He had traveled across the region for many years and had seen many ruins. Hefferkorn even witnessed a grisly kill his Indian guide on one trip across Sonora. The guide had attempted to kill the bear, succeeding only in wounding it and paid the ultimate price when the animal turned on its tormentor. This being the case, it's strange that Hefferkorn would attribute rock throwing and the ability to carry large amounts of corn away while walking on two legs to grislies. I think it's entirely possible that the stone hurling, corn-stealing, bipedal bears of Sonora might have actually been wood apes. A strikingly similar account comes from another historical source, a former Arkansas slave. Doc Quinn was one of the oldest living residents of Miller County, Arkansas, yes, the same Miller County that would become known as the home of the folk monster of the legendary Bogey Creek fame when he was interviewed by Cecil Copeland at his home in Texarkana in the 1930s. Doc recalled when he was first brought to the plantation of one Colonel Ogburn between Index and Fulton on the Red River that there was a section of the property dominated by an immense cane break. This cane break was a favorite retreat of bears and other wild animals. It was all but impossible to go in after problem bears that would steal out of the thicket at night and take livestock, so the plantation owner had the slaves round up the hogs and animals and place them in pens at the end of the day. Several slaves were charged with standing guard at night over the domesticated animals. The efforts of the slaves helped somewhat but bears were still seen often and some of their actions were almost human. The following is a passage taken from the book Bearing Witness, Memories of Arkansas Slavery Narratives from the 1930s WPA Collection in which Doc Quinn describes to Cecil Copeland the odd behavior of a bear he came across in a cornfield one day. The bear picked off an ear of corn and put it in his bended arm. He repeated this action until he had an armful and then waddled over to the fence. Standing by the fence, he carefully threw the corn on the other side, ear by ear. The bear then climbed the fence much in the same manner of a human being, retrieved the corn and went on his way. Sounds familiar, does it not? The simple truth is that bears cannot stroll around in a bipedal fashion while plucking ears of corn from stalks in the field with one front paw and placed them into the crook of their other front arm. The description of how Quinn witnessed this animal climb a fence in the same manner of a human being is fascinating. The entire incident simply does not describe bear behavior in any form or fashion. Quinn provides another interesting anecdote in the same interview. I thought long and hard about including it here but not because it is interesting but because Doc Quinn's words are transcribed in such a way that his dialect is evident. Some hot button words, including the N-word, are used. After wrestling with it for a while, I decided to include the account here with only one minor edit. I decided not to use the N-word. I fear in today's climate I'd be accused of approving of it or some such thing. Again, I would remind you that these are not my words. These are the words spoken by former Arkansas slave Doc Quinn and transcribed by his interviewer Cecil Copeland. The text comes straight from the book previously mentioned. To try to focus on the story Doc Quinn is telling, not the language and terminology he uses. The account is as follows. Late one evening, me and another named Jerry was coming home from fishing, rounding the bend in the trail. What did we meet almost face-to-face? The great big old bar. Being young and blessed with swift feet, I make a photo nearest the tree and hastily scrambles to safety. Not so with my fat friend. Peering out and through the branches over the tree, I seized the bar making for Jerry and I says to myself, Jerry, your sins are showcatched up with you this time. But Jerry, honest being mean, must have had to double by his side, pulling out in his bowing knife that jumps to one side as the bar comes charging past and stab it into the side, near the shoulder. As the bar started toning around to make another lunge at him, he noticed the blood spurting from the shoulder. What do you think happened? That old bar forgets all about Jerry, hastily scrambling around. He begins to pick up leaves and trash and clamps them on the wound, trying to keep from bleeding to death. You acted to bar dive? Well, so I don't wait to see the result. Jerry, he done left them parts and not wanting to stay up in that tree all night by myself. I scrambles down and run for a mile home in double quick time. I ask you, what kind of bear notices it is bleeding, stops in the middle of an altercation, begins gathering leaves and then packs its own wound? I'll tell you the answer. None. No bear behaves in this manner. If Doc Quinn is not spinning a yarn to his interviewer, the creature his fishing partner Jerry tangled with was certainly no bear. Was it an aggressive Sasquatch? Certainly the location was right, as the aggressive nature of the folk monster would be well documented some years later. There's a real shortage of viable alternatives if the creature in question was not a bear. The parallels between these two accounts, accounts separated by more than a century and approximately 1,400 miles, are uncanny. Bears cannot and do not gather up corn in their arms and walk away with it in a bipedal fashion. Yet a Jesuit missionary and a former Arkansas slave described observing this same behavior. Doc Quinn's account of how his fishing partner Jerry tangled with an animal that packed its own wound after being stabbed lends credence to the theory that something other than a bear was roaming about Miller County, Arkansas and his youth. Is it possible that these two men from very different worlds, Father Ignos Fevricorn and former slave Doc Quinn, described the same type of animal? An animal they had no name for? An animal that just might have been a wood ape? Sasquatch? Bigfoot? Food for thought. When Weird Darkness returns, the FBI described Israel Keys as one of the most meticulous and vile serial killers in American history. So much so, he even had the FBI scratching their heads. That story is up next. I'm a man of habits. Okay, truth be told, my bride says I'm boring. I like the same stuff and that's what I stick with. And that includes what I eat. Even for breakfast, I used to opt for a leftover pizza, hot dogs, hamburgers. Did I mention pizza? Anyway, now that I'm trying to lose weight and cut back on the carbs, I've had to make changes for breakfast. Now, instead of a big heavy breakfast, I just grabbed one of my built bars, the best-tasting protein bar on the planet. Built bars satisfy my hunger with up to 19 grams of protein and also satisfy my sugar craving, despite being less than 3 grams of sugar. And at only about 150 calories per bar, if I'm really hungry in the morning, I can grab two of them and still feel good about it. Try replacing your dessert or even a meal like breakfast with a built bar. You won't even know it's not really a candy bar. Visit WeirdDarkness.com slash built and build a box of your own.  That's WeirdDarkness.com slash built promo code WeirdDarkness. For 16 years and maybe even longer, serial killer Israel Keys traveled the country, robbing banks, burglarizing homes, burying kill kits in Home Depot buckets, and preying upon victims who seemed to share nothing in common. He was an investigator's worst nightmare, a serial killer with no apparent pattern or type. By the time he died by his own hand while awaiting trial for the abduction, rape, and brutal murder of Samantha Koenig, he had been linked to at least 11 deaths and disappearances, and his true number of victims may never be known. He's died in his jail cell on December 2, 2012 as a result of self-inflicted cuts on his wrist and strangulation. He left behind a blood-smeared four-page suicide note that's been called an ode to murder. Dr. Stephen Montgomery, a forensic psychiatrist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, described Keys' chilling note written partially in loosely rhyming meter as showing no remorse, no regard for human life. It's certainly not an ordinary suicide note, Dr. Phil Resnick, director of forensic psychiatry at University Hospital's Case Medical Center in Cleveland said after reading the haunting note. He doesn't talk much about his own dilemmas of being in prison or why he's taking his own life. It's more of a final statement of contempt for the American style of life, Dr. Resnick went on to say. I think the other thing he emphasizes is his own superiority, that he has guile and can take advantage of people who are naive and trusting of him. In his suicide note, Keys, who was raised in a cultish survivalist family, keeps disdain upon what he perceives as the normal American way of life and refers to one of his victims as, quote, my pretty captive butterfly, unquote. The skills that Keys' survivalist upbringing had instilled in him, along with a three-year stint in the military, proved helpful as Keys committed his crimes while evading authorities. He had zero victim profile, Marine Callahan told A&E. Callahan is the author of American Predator, a recently released book about the life and crimes of Israel Keys. I think of him as an analog killer in a digital world. All he did was buy a one-way plane ticket to a major city, rent a car, drive thousands of miles.  The kits were home depot buckets that he filled with guns, ammo, rope, cash, and drain-o which he used to accelerate human decomposition. The locations were only in his mind, never documented. He's partly funded his murderous hobby by committing strings of robberies and burglaries across the country. He'd been connected to several bank robberies, and he suspected of having burglarized 2230 homes. If he could, Callahan said, describing Keys' modus operandi, he'd take the bodies to another location and dispose of them so expertly that he left no trace of them or his DNA behind. This seems to have been what happened to Bill and Lorraine Courier, the Essex Vermont couple who vanished suddenly in 2011.  More than merely a methodical killer, he's actually studied criminal profiling in order to learn what not to do. In fact, according to CBS, the FBI has described Keys as one of the most meticulous serial killers in American history. He claimed to have first read John Douglas' book, Mindhunter, inside the FBI's elite Serial Crime Unit, the basis for the Netflix series of the same name, when he was a teenager. According to Callahan, Keys stated that he suddenly realized he wasn't alone, after reading Douglas' descriptions of violent defenders and their pathological urges. Keys was finally arrested in March of 2012. More than a month earlier, he had abducted 18-year-old Samantha Koenig by gunpoint from the coffee booth where she worked in Anchorage, Alaska. Weeks later, her dismembered body would be found at the bottom of Matanuska Lake. In the meantime, however, Keys went on a pre-booked two-week cruise with his family in the Gulf of Mexico, while Koenig's brutalized body lay in a shed back in Alaska. When he returned, he posed her body to look like it was still alive and took a photo of it alongside a days-old copy of the Anchorage Daily News, demanding a $30,000 ransom from her family. It was this ransom demand that eventually led to Keys' arrest. The money was deposited into Koenig's account, and Keys used her debit card to withdraw funds across the Southwest United States. Authorities were able to track the withdrawals and ultimately arrested Keys at the Cotton Patch Cafe in Lufkin, Texas. Once he was in custody, Keys began confessing to crimes but was never as forthcoming as investigators would have hoped. Even the top criminal profilers at the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit were terrified of him and flummoxed by him, according to Callahan. I can tell you right now there is no one who knows me or who has ever known me who knows anything about me, really, Keys himself told authorities. I'm two different people, basically. As an example of this duality, on the same day that Keys dismembered Samantha Koenig's body and sank it in the frigid waters of Matanuska Lake, he attended a parent-teacher conference for his own daughter. American Predator is dedicated to the victims and their families, known and unknown. While Keys admitted to several murders, rapes and other crimes while he was awaiting trial, his suicide left the total tally of his victims unknown, probably forever. One of my hopes, Callahan said of why she had written the book, is that some potentially Keys-related missing persons cases are reopened to find more victims. Unfortunately, Keys' strange suicide note, written in a combination of pencil and ink on a blood-stained legal pad, provided no investigative clues or leads as to the identity of other possible victims, according to the FBI. In 2020, the FBI released a series of crude paintings discovered underneath Keys' jail cell bed. The paintings depicted 11 skulls and a pentagram, and the FBI believes that the 11 skulls signify Keys' victims. Still, the mystery endures, and the messages provide one last cryptic look into the mind of a sick and monstrous man. Forget the lady called Luck, Keys wrote in his bloody final communication with the world, she does not abide near me, for her powers don't extend to those who are dead. Weird Darkness Weirdo's Facebook group on the contact page of the website. If you're listening to the show via podcast or on YouTube, be sure to subscribe if you haven't already done so and leave a review of the show in the podcast app you listen from. And if you're already a weirdo, please take a moment today and share Weird Darkness with somebody you know who loves paranormal or strange stories, true crime, monsters or mysteries like you do. Do you have a dark tale to tell of your own? Fact or fiction, click on tell your story on the website and I might use it in a future episode. All stories in Weird Darkness are purported to be true unless stated otherwise, and you can find source links or links to the authors in the show notes. The Devil Came to Devon is by Orrin Gray at Ranker and Brent Swancer at Mysterious Universe. The One and God of Murders is by Undyne for Strange Company. The missionary, the slave, and Bigfoot is from Michael Mays for Texas Cryptid Hunter. And a meticulous serial killer is by Orrin Gray for the lineup. And now that we're coming out of the dark, I'll leave you with a little light.  And a final thought, I don't need a perfect life, I just want to be happy, surrounded by good friends who love me for who I am. I'm Darren Marlar. Thanks for joining me in the Weird Darkness.


at creative economy. How can youths make something out of themselves from the opportunities that are there? And for this, we have a very interesting panel, if I may put it like that. They are the grassroot nest for innovation and change. In abbreviation, it's Greek. So they're creating original movement of youthful grassroot champions of education. And I'll start with, I guess that's right here beside me. That is Samoa Mouai. He's the senior programs officer at Greek. On my far right, the gentleman is Joseph Kisemei. He's an Greek alumni and a Greek youth leadership program. Also, Catherine, Catherine who? Sirveta. Yes, Catherine Sirveta is also an alumni of the Greek alumni and the Greek youth leadership program. Karebouni Sana? Thank you so much. Glad to have you with us. Thank you. So I'll just get a little bit of what you guys do on individual capacities. So let me start with you Sirveta. Thank you so much. Good morning everyone. My name is Catherine Sirveta and I'm an alumnus of the Greek youth leadership program. In fact, I was in the first cohort which took us like a program of one year. So we got to learn a lot through that. I'm also a student currently pursuing my master's in the University of Nairobi in project planning and management. Okay, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on to Joseph. Yes, thank you. My name is Joseph Kisemei. I hail from Kajado Central. Apparently, I'm a student at the Kenya School of Law waiting for my admission to the bar. But at least I do something. I work in the farm of Mary and company advocates. That farm is based in Kajado Town. Okay. So that is what I do as of now. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Now to you Samuel. You're also the senior programs officer at Greek. So you'll tell us a little bit about Greek as you introduce yourself. Thank you and thank you for having us. My name is Samuel Muai, the senior programs officer at Greek. Greek is an abbreviation of your rightfully put it. Grasusness, Renovations and Change. What we do is we're a regional non-profit organization working across Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania, but headquartered here in Nairobi. Working under three pillars are girls' education and women empowerment, youth leadership and education, a children learning pillar. So that is who we are in a broad sense. But we have a special, we have a liking and a special focus on youth and how the youth interplay across all other programming areas. Okay. Wonderful. And today, good thing we are talking about the youth and creative economy. So with the youth program that you have, the youth leadership program, we're going to focus on that a little bit. How does that promote creative economy? Instead, let me just ask for someone who's watching and doesn't understand what creative economy is. How would you explain creative economy? Let me go with you, Sireta. For me, I think creative economy is a civic environment for youth. On a personal basis, I think it's all intertwined to culture. Coming from the culture aspect, our ways of living, our values, even the food that we eat. But now, in this 21st century, we get now to be much more innovative. We become more creative and also putting the aspect of technology into it. So for me, I think you have to mix the two, your culture, and now be innovative and put the technology aspect of it. Okay. So it's culture, innovation, and technology. Yeah. That's how I put it myself. Okay. Interesting, right? Look at it. How would you look at it the same way? My understanding of creative economy goes with the aspect of creativity, innovations, to do with intellectual property, the mindset, what someone can actually think can support the economy, like what you can invent in your own ways, what you can create on your own and convert it to be a means of income for that matter. Okay. And maybe you will give us examples as we go on so that we get a clear, even a better understanding of it. To use some more, how is your program promoting creative economy? Thank you. We see the young people as a resource that is readily available but overly underutilized and very creative. I think in the discourse, in the discourse, in the economic discourse, political discourse and so on, young people are eliminated from the processes yet they are very creative. So to answer you is we have a six-month utilization program that seeks to harness the creativity of young people. And for us, creativity plays out in three ways. How can they get upper social mobility? How can they acquire jobs or start entrepreneurship activities? But there's an aspect of creativity that is innate at this in the community. A young person in a community has a lot of what they can do to support their communities. But then they need creativity to identify what it is and then how to address it. So the great utilization program works to help them get upper social mobility but also to identify opportunities within their communities that they can creatively solve using tech or using just basic ingenuity. Okay. Interesting. How does tech, how does tech come in or why does tech need to come in? I think we cannot run away from tech. As fast as we may be, I'll give an example. In our children learning program, for a long time we were not engaging tech. But realize that for education to happen and happen effectively, you must embrace tech. Learning can happen on the phone, you know? Learning can happen using speakers and videos and so on and so forth. So I think if you want to be, you know, a creative, you can never run away from tech. Sure. I agree with that. We're in a tech revolution now. To you, sir. How have you benefited? How would you say the youth leadership program enabled you to be creative? How did you apply the lessons you took? So for us, it was because we were the first cohort, we didn't take the six months training, we did it for one year. So of course, there was a note that recovered from resource mobilization to project planning and management to even work ethics. But now you get to work with your community on that. So by the end of the fellowship, you are required to come up with a project. And it's a must for you to do that. To come up with a project, wherever you are, you need to see a problem and do yourself, create a solution to that problem. So on my side, I come from Kajada West, very much a part of it. It's called a Wasun Kidoni Award. And education there, most of the kids don't do their homework. This is because there is no electricity on that side of the world. We are still like very much interior into it. And then also, some of the parents, poverty is still like devastation. So most of the parents can't afford like buying solar panels for lighting up their houses. So I became innovative. I thought, how can these kids do their homework? So I came up with an initiative. It was called Adapter Lamp Initiative, where I fundraised and bought solar lamps for kids who mostly stayed at the manyata. So I donated these solar lamps, we tested the solar lamp. In fact, if you put it in the manyata, it would light up the whole manyata. So the kid would do the homework. The mother would cook. As in it was, you killed two birds with one stone. So I thought, yeah, this is like really, I have to be innovative because sunlight, of course, it's clean energy. There is no effect, but a bad effect to your health, to anything bad. So, and then also, the kids, in fact, we did a survey or we monitored.  So that was the one thing that it really made me know that indeed I can be innovative and I can address a problem in my community. Wow, amazing. Very interesting. When we think about solving problems, we think of crazy things out of this world. We need to come up with something like Elon Musk, something. But it's the little things, a problem that we see, and then we come up with a solution and it creates a big impact and you have seen results in that. Amazing. And the fact that you went green and the theme for this year is green skills for international youth data. And for you, Joseph, what's your story? Okay. My story is, I can say I am better and visionary from the Greek program. I am an alumina of God too, of Greek leadership program. And our program took approximately six months. And after that program, I was actually made to understand the world that around me. My leadership skills were so sharpened, at least I could actually understand my position and my space back in my community.  And sometimes maybe you can tap the skills from school, but you don't have the exposure on how you can employ your skills to help the community that you're coming from. So from this program, I've actually been in a position to understand myself first and discover the capabilities and the potential that are within me. And then I was able to actually actualize my understanding and my skills back to the community as a means of doing mobilization, improving and teaching other people, mentoring other young people. So I even have a lot of young people who are actually looking upon me, confining with what I do because of what I've actually learned from the leadership program from Greek and then I transform it back to the community. So I can say, as of now, I am a bit better than how I was before I got into this opportunity. And also I'm very much visionary going forward because I'm much passionate about leadership and this program has actually sharpened my leadership skills. So I can be in a position now at least to prove and also to show a way to our community and also to our people whenever an opportunity presents itself. Wow, amazing. If I started to be a leader and you're leading now. Wow, amazing. So now to you, Samuel, when he speaks about leadership skills, they got sharpened. How do you ensure that this happens when someone gets into the program or our leaders just, you know, some people, I am not a leader. So how do you get the leader out of them? First, to make you very uncomfortable because people tend operating in their comfort zones. Kiseme went to law school, but we took him to teach. Wow. So we make you a very different area and make you very uncomfortable and in the discomfort that you are in, the power in you starts coming out. If you didn't know how to manage a class and now you have 40, 50 children in an after school program, you have to figure out how to maintain them. You see Kiseme is a very calm guy, but now he's with these 30 children in grade three jumping up and down. So the first thing is we do make you very uncomfortable and then that's when we start seeing, you know, the potential that you have. Then now the whole aspect of mentorship comes in because young people lack mentors. They lack people who have walked the path before them. So we align every young person who comes into the program with mentors and this is a person who is trained, blazed in the path you're walking in. So we make you uncomfortable, we train you the theory, but most importantly, we thoroughly mentor you into the space, and let me tell you it could be very small things. It could be as simple as public speaking. It is those small spaces that we now see that this is where you have gaps and then now the mentor comes in and works with you the journey. And for six months, it's transformative. You've seen great results like this year. Absolutely great results and across East Africa. Sereta spoke about innovation. I was speaking to one of them, one of the young people in Arusha, work around Arusha region in Tanzania.  So the guy came up with a very simple, innovative, but very creative solution. Just put a light on. Yeah, just have a light on. I saw a light similar to what Sereta was doing. The animals will not come into it. The domestic animals, the economic life will go up and then most importantly, the children have a space to learn. So creative economy can be as simple as you want it to be or as complicated as you want it to be. Yeah, so it's actually simple.  There's something that they usually say about when you want to to be great, you look for a problem and then you create a solution to it and it makes the world a better place. What would you say? What would I say? Sereta, what would you say? How is creative economy impacting economic and social development? If I can just move away a little bit from education and go into, let's say, arts, design, music. I believe that that too is part of the creative economy. And if I can just give an example with musicians, I can go to my favorite band, these people have created a very good business model for themselves. They go to concerts, not only in Kenya but abroad and everywhere else. And the concerts are usually booked and full. So how does our economy gain from this? Of course money is put into it and this money also comes back to the economy of Kenya. So I believe that even for fashion, a lot of designers, our Kenyan designers, they sell these outfits for a lot of cash and back to our economy, it comes back. So I believe that creative economy, given a chance, it would really go a long way in empowering our economic Kenya. So we need to have, what do we, let me ask you, Joseph, what do we need to have? Do we need to have more programs like this that are centered around youth? Today in the morning, one of my co-hosts was showing me a statistic that half of the population in the world are youth. I'm not sure if it's half, I think so. Yet there's still some problems, a lot of problems, still an employment. So what really needs to be done? Do we need to have more programs centered around the youth? How do we empower youths in this area? Okay, thank you. First of all, we need to understand that there's so much power in the young people. And in most cases, this power is actually not utilized in the sense that it was to be. You find young generations are not fully up to their potentials because maybe they lack space, they are not well-natured, they are no good platforms for them maybe to showcase their potentials. For me, I think much has to be done, especially providing young generation with mentorship programs, for example, for them to be well-mended, for them to be showed the way. Because you see now young people are the most learned people, just to say to maybe to mention, because just as you said, the largest population in the world is actually the youth. So if all the youth, for example, maybe a larger percentage of them are learned, these are people who have just gone to schools, they've acquired different skills, they're very innovative, they have the desire and the courage. Because another thing that you need to know, a young generation, they are very brave, they are very bold and that is why you even see them on the social media, they can tackle issues without fear, they can talk on a point of their interest without fear because they are very bold and they have that capability to speak up for the issues. And what needs to be done actually is we need to support them because there are so many ways they are lucky, there are so many things they need to be supported with. First of all, financial, because you see now someone is creative but they lack the capital, they lack the financial support in order to put their ideas into a reality. Another thing is space. You see now back in the communities, we have very many young talented young girls, very many young talented boys, but they are not well exposed. Their talents are just well kept in the villages because they don't have the space to go and to explore, they don't have the works, and once you have an idea and you've not actualized that idea, then that eventually will be so much fruitful to you and to the community around you. So I think what needs to be done is providing them a space, supporting them and also bringing more programs such as these programs, especially that and build their own economy. Okay, wonderful. You've spoken about the finance bit of it, to be creative, you have an idea, but now you need money to implement it. How do you guys go about it in your own area? How did you get money? Because it's a problem that most innovators usually have, they complain about funding. So do we have another option or what's what avenues are there? Sarah, you can answer that. Personally what I did, I wrote a very good proposal of which proposal was one of the topics that we handled at the youth leadership program. So I wrote a very good proposal, but it did not go through and then now I had to come and fundraise through my family and friends and I was happy that they held my hand, they supported me and yeah, I bought the lamps and I gave them to the kids. Wow. So you went out of your way? Yeah, I had to go in and tell my family and friends now you guys and they came through. I'm happy they came through. So someone is this the gap that we are seeing? Is that where we can do something about it? Because I think it's the only thing that usually limits people who are creative out here and there's also something that I read from the writing you sent us. You said that youths are skilled and energetic, full of energy, of creativity, yet they're disengaged in national and regional discourses and processes. So how should they be engaged and how can we solve this problem of funding? One is to do 12 more similar programs, you know, that brings them together and exposes them to a case that they can use. That is, I think, should be very intentional both at government and on profit space to build skills within the youth. Young people will have the technical skills around design, around IT, but how do they turn their skills into money? I think we really need to be intentional as the government at that level and then understand profit space. So that is one thing I think we need to do. I still believe in the power of mentorship, mentoring young people is a way of helping them walk through some of these gaps that are there because I mentor us so many things to a young person. Let me be proud of myself. Kisemei was my mentor. Now he's wearing a suit, I'm not. Oh, he was your mentor, you're the mentor. Now he's wearing a suit. Okay. When I go to meet Kisemei in Kajedo, I feel very intimidated. So I think having people trailblazed to really, you know, very intentionally not hold young people. You'll have programs, but then what is the end goal of the programs? Will they graduate after six months or whichever months then go and hang in the space? What do you do with them in the entirety of the process? So we have program years, but then what is the entirety of the process looking like? How do you unhaul them? How do you help them navigate the spaces that you know, probably as a mentor, you know how to do? Okay. So you make, you ease in the process for them. Sure. For this program, how do people get into it? Give us the details and what are the modules like? Yeah. It's an application process. We just closed on the 28th of last month and we had eight, 94 applications. Wow, that's a lot. A lot of applications. And this is for the second court. For the first court, we had a thousand and three and sixty-four applicants. So what that tells us is we have to be planning for these opportunities. Yes. Yeah. People are looking for such. Yeah. So after you apply, we take you through a thorough interview process because as we interview, we're also training you to tackle interviews and become creative and ask interview questions for your own, you know, spaces. So after three prognetic days, the first one where you write towards, I mean, there's a questionnaire issue, then we call you for an unknown interview, then there's another type of interview with leadership. So it is a very rigorous process to get in. So it's an application process. What do you look for in an interview just to give our viewers a leakage over the next summer? I think it's creativity. Creativity. Creativity is at the score the highest points. And it doesn't really matter much, you know, the degree or whatever, but how creative are you as a young person? That's where the most marks lie. Are you creative to use what you have, what is in your space to then solve challenges in your space?  Is that really creative? So we look, creativity is a very important element and resilience because we'll put you through fire. So you need to know that they're prepared for that, they can stand it. You need to withstand it and then just, you know, the service to the community is very important for us. And when, imagine out of the eight ninety-four applications, we can only take seventy-five. Oh my. So we keep asking ourselves what happened to the eight hundred plus and we left another close to nine hundred plus in the last call. The past one, yeah. So speaking of what Kisemiah was saying, we need more such programs. Young people are coming out, are yearning for them, but who is willing to unhaul them? Greek and itself cannot hold the entire East African space. How can other players come into this space? And for the seventy-five, it's all of them from Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda. Imagine. Wow. I feel you need to see at most places. Because only, you know, Kenya's a lot of jobs. Kenya's over five hundred and some people, you know, Kenya's a lot of dressing. And imagine out of the five hundred applications, Kenya could only take, I think, fifty or forty, forty-five. Because they have to go to their peers. So we do two courts of seventy-five, seventy-five, making it one fifty a year. But we get applications close to maybe over two thousand. So it keeps us awake at night. What do we do with these other young people? It's very hard to reject them. And let me tell you, they're very creative and they're very resilient, but you can only accommodate one fifty per year for now. Okay. What about the modules? So we start, we call it in-out. We start with a topic that people are very, you know, sensitive about. And that's mental health. So the first topic is mental health, because young people, and people generally have issues. So we start mental health. Then as you do your mental health first module, we align with this. There are standby psychiatrists who, if you need more, they'll be with you through the program. These are available on call to work with you. So we start with mental health, then self-awareness, then project planning and management, entrepreneurship, an issue that we are finding young people are struggling with these issues around networking. You know, how do you go into a space and get to know you, and get your number, and then use this as a network to build on? There'll be spaces and there'll be no sub. And there's a minister there. And opportunity. Just by there. So networking is a key element of that. And then career preparedness and growth, because we realized somebody can have a degree, but they don't know how to write a CV. They can have a degree and they come to an interview 45 minutes late and no topologies. And I work with them at times, you know, they come and they can take tea and leave it on the table and feel nothing. And that was an interview. They just take the table and leave it for you to figure it out. So it's trying to make it very practical for them. But one thing I need to mention is that all of them are assigned to grassroots organizations. So that it's just, it's not just a theological training. As I was doing a program, she was attached to an organization in Kajedo West, right? Then Kisemei was in Kajedo Central. So all of them across South Africa, we give them a space to expressly acquire a case and then we'll help them. All right. So the next cohort will be next year? Yes, the next cohort, there's a cohort which is starting on 1st September. We have a graduation on the 30th of August, then the next cohort kicks in all the way to February next year. So anybody who's interested, look out Greek Africa on social media and on our website, we'll put up the applications around November. Please apply early. It's on a rolling basis. Greek Africa. Z-R-I-C, Space Africa. Okay. That's where you get all the details. All right. As we come to a close of this, I want to know, you take, why youths need to, okay, not really get to the program, they know why they need to get in the program, why they need to get into the creative economy space now. Let me start with you. Okay. I can say the youths need actually to engage themselves meaningfully to this creative economy. And the reason is as to why you see, for example, 5% of the 5.3, in fact, 5.3% of the Kenyan GDP is actually contributed by creativeness and all the other issues around creativeness. You see now, there are no job opportunities for all of us and we are talented and we are educated and God has given us different talents as well as gifts and skills that we can use to at least to provide better and better. So I think the reason why youths need to engage themselves is because there are more opportunities in the creative industry. You find maybe someone now, like, for example, Kenya, Kenya actually sends maybe Kenya engages in a transaction of selling things like corporates, trademarks, patents, to other jurisdiction. And then, in that regard, Kenya earns money as a way of a transaction with other jurisdiction. So now, if we have more innovative people, more creative people, actually, into this industry, then it will create another space for employment for another very big percentage of people who are not employed. So we will not be in a position only to look for jobs in the county government. Neither will we actually trust things so much the national government for job opportunities because we will actually be in getting food through our own innovations, creativeness, and we will actually even support the government in coming up with other ways of solving other issues. Amazing. For you, Catherine, how would you advise the youth to leverage on technology? I think right now technology is, I think I can say everything. You can do a lot with your phone. You can do a lot with your laptop. Instead of video gaming, maybe for example, your young girl or young man at the, anyway, maybe at the village setup or at a town setup, at the city setup. There's a lot to just come. I think what we need to do as youths, become creative, and now just think, how can I put, for example, my talent into a business idea, have a clear vision of what you want. And also, you need to know who is supposed to help me, who can I partner with. You know, have that clearly. And I think when you think, when you do, so just think, have a business idea, work towards it, create a very good business model. And I think your talent, your art, your fashion design, a lot of youths, I think what we are lacking or we are missing a point as youths is, we just want to work at an office. You don't want to hands on deck, you know. You just want to be there with a computer, go at an office, eight to five, and then you're good. But now I know for a fact that many fashion designers, they really do a lot. They wake up very early in the morning, they go sleep late at night. But by the end of it, when they see something that they have created, that they have innovated, they feel fulfillment. And to even top it all, you get to get good money. So our youths, let's think harder. Let's try put these ideas into business models. And I think by the end of it, we'll create job opportunities for ourselves. Okay, I love it. You have an idea, put it as a business model and then implement it. Amazing. Finally, some more as we close up. The program is centered towards giving back to the community. Why is this important for a youth out there? I mean, I can create something for myself and make money. Why do I need to give back to the community? And what would you want to say as a final word as you close? Thank you so much. That's a question I get a lot. Why should I? And ask what should you not? This is your community. I mean, it builds a lot in you beyond giving back. It teaches you the value of citizenship. It teaches you resilience. So look at it as a way of also acquiring skills. So please give back. It's a question I get a lot. Why should I? I think for us to change a lot of things, we have to do that. And my final word would be, come out young people. Be aggressive. Some of the applicants we have have applied for five times and now they're getting in. Don't give up on the first failure. And I always say when you have to fail, please fail forward. Dust yourself up. These appointments will be there, but you have to soldier on other young people. We cannot, I mean young people cannot give up and say it's over for us. Then what? You have to keep moving. We have to keep moving. Okay. Thank you. What's your social media handle once again? So it's at Greek Africa for the organization, across all platforms on Twitter and Facebook. We are still having the young people set for up as an Instagram page. So it's still in this home. And TikTok too. The teaching allowed to dance. So forgive us for the dance tells you to see on that. We're on a learning journey. Forgive you. We are very understanding people. Thank you very much guys for coming on board and sharing with us, you know, experience and great insights. I'm sure our youth out there is motivated and it's bad to do something because you have done it and you have seen it through. So this has been sport and tech discussion on creative economy with Samuel Minor, a senior programs officer at Greek. Greek is grassrootsness for innovation and change. You can get them on social media at Greek Africa. Greek is G R I C space and then Africa. We also had Catherine Saretta and Joseph Kiseme. They're both alumni of Greek youth leadership program. I hope you've taken something from this interesting conversation. We're going to take a short break and then we'll be back with youth and lifestyle. Stay with us.