Hi everybody. Welcome and welcome to our all day movie workshop. Today we're going to be joined by those who are participating in our weekend online retreat. We have a trusting in the present online retreat happening and we also have those who are just here for the movie just for today. So I just like to welcome everybody and I'm Peter.  Thank you Peter and thank you everyone for joining in. Beautiful to see your waves and your smiling faces and it's we're going to have an amazing day today. As some of you know when we have these Saturday segments there'll be a setup for a movie then a movie with commentary and then we'll have after a short break breakout groups in zoom so you can let your emotions up and that's really what a lot of these movies are. They're just a huge opportunity for healing to get in touch with what's in the unconscious mind that needs to come up for release and they're very practical because as most people have a lot of emotions when they watch movies and the movies that Jesus picks for us are their mind watchers, their roto router. He will get your unconscious guilt up in a way that it's hard to even imagine but it's important to express your emotions when you feel them and that's what the breakout rooms are for and also for your miracles and insights because sometimes the insights are like flash bulbs going off and there's so many that when you share them with a group of people it just the blessing just extends and radiates out that your miracle is really everyone's miracle and everyone's miracle is your miracle. So today as Pete said we have a combined audience from around the world from our centers in in Spain and Utah and Mexico. We also have those that are here a part of the retreat trusting the present and so all told we have probably over a hundred people from many many different countries and we're all going to go through this deeply healing experience together and I would say that that the pathway of a course in miracles is through the darkness to the light and so Jesus has told us that this course his course in miracles does not aim at teaching the meaning of love for that is far what can be taught far beyond what can be taught it it just aims at removing the obstacles to the awareness of love's presence and I feel like that's that's a great mindset to have as you authentically go through the healing process as you authentically dive in you realize that there's a lot of uncovering a lot of exposing and a lot of releasing and the philosopher author that we will be in the movie today that the movie is about is Ken Wilbur and and his relationship with Traya or Terry Gilliam and her nickname is Traya and and their relationship will be used as a mechanism for deep deep healing and that is the value of all relationships is to release what is believed in the unconscious mind with a course in miracles it's a fast track so Jesus uses relationships in conjunction with clearing away the unconscious mind so that the light can shine through unobscured uninhibited and this movie today as usual it just it it's the result of prayer um yesterday we were had been praying in the as a community and and there were lots of options and then I happened to click open instagram and this movie came right up and I was like wow is this is this the movie I'm to show maybe I can check there's a trailer what year is it from 2021 what's the release date and I've looked around and I what's the release date ah the yesterday was the release date I was like oh my gosh so it's quite a collaboration for us to bring this movie to you I would say we I will be using it as a teaching device so I will bring uh an edited downsized version of the movie to you for teaching purpose and uh sometimes in our community over many years these have been come to be called uh mini movies and this is where Jesus gives us the you've heard of the director's cut this is the Jesus cut uh and he just this started many years ago after I watched the first matrix movie and was like wow then I watched the second in the trilogy wow and then the third in the trilogy wow and I I thought that's amazing that's over six hours of Hollywood movie footage in a trilogy the matrix trilogy and then Jesus said yeah now download all those onto your hard drive and let me do some editing so Jesus took over six hours of matrix and turned it into an hour and 23 minutes of Jesus Christ version of the matrix we called it matrix redux it was definitely reduced so we'll have a bit of a redux today for teaching purposes and brevity and part of that is because we ask our our global community to to vote on themes and issues and Ken puts it out and basically we look at the the top themes that come in for healing what's on everyone's mind around the world what is it they're going through right now we like these Saturday events and also our retreats to be highly relevant to what's going on in in consciousness so the combined poll of the English and the Spanish came up with these top three uh vote getters in terms of themes and I think it was mentioned last night the first one Eric mentioned the first one which is how to move through deep emotions sadness grief guilt etc this movie is definitely that it addresses the top theme big time and I know for a lot of you that's very important because you have very intense emotions and that's one of the biggest questions how do I move through this how practically do I move through or to allow the darkness to move through my mind and clear away how can my mind be cleaned the second one is personal responsibility versus god dependence the god dependence would be the present moment if you're in the moment you recognize your god dependence and you're not looking to time to solve the problems and the issues you're not looking to the past to solve anything and you're not even looking to the future either to solve anything you are in present trust and that's basically a prayer from a course in miracles let present trust direct the way holy spirit let present trust direct the way and last night Greg and Emily and Eric all talked about letting trust lead the way in their experiences and even talked a bit about how we have changes seemingly happening is part of our community as we go deeper into that deep well of trust of the present moment and and things seem to reconfigure and fall away when you go into it so it's beautiful that we have zoom and we have this digital platform because you can all go with us and at least you can be the observers as we we go through these transformations in our states of mind into just pure joy it's nice to watch the witnesses I saw some comments coming in saying oh so precious watching three calm course of miracles teachers on there very happy to see the presence of peace coming through and the third theme is acting solely from joy and of course that is a very very very advanced state of mind because the holy spirit is the spirit of joy so that to the extent that you hear one voice as Jesus did to the extent that you're consistently aligned with the spirit you're miracle minded you're consistently right minded if you're using course of miracles terminology then that's where you experience the joy and and really the joy doesn't come in in a consistent way until you really have transferred the training the mind training to the great majority of everything that you see you will not start to experience constant joy or even consistent joy until the transfer of training that Jesus talks about in the workbook is mostly complete and also we need to keep in mind that that happiness joy peace of mind uh when we're talking about perception there's always a a relativness tied into that because Jesus comes right out in the course and says a child of God can only know itself in its true environment and you may ask what is the true environment of the child of God heaven nirvana eternity is the natural environment of of a child of God so even when we talk about perception and happy dream and true perception and what Jesus calls the forgiven world that's a mostly consistent state of mind of peace and happiness and joy he does throw a few things in to just say don't you know hold your horses a little bit there don't don't overestimate what the the happy dream is about he says even even the most advanced teachers of God will give into temptation in this world so he's like saying don't think you're home free until you're home free until until you're in eternity that's what it's about God will take the final step God doesn't really take steps but that means that when you remember God when you remember reality in eternity then that is that's not even he says the goal of the course the goal of the course is peace and the goal of the course is forgiveness and atonement but he's not saying that eternity is the goal in fact I put out a little video on our movie watchers guide to enlightenment facebook page of of ken wilber and and he was talking about three aspects he was talking about first comes cleaning cleaning the unconscious second comes waking up and third he called growing up and his growing up is a little different than Jesus Jesus is growing up would be when you're moving in the realms of pure creation and coming to in the realms of pure light beyond perception that would be growing up in course miracles terminology growing up is has nothing to do with human development it has nothing to do with time and space in for Jesus and so you might say if you work with the course you know first you you start to open up and have willingness for miracles then you start to have more miracles and more miracles and more consistent miracles and unlike Greg and Emily and Eric were saying we don't even know what's next what's even coming in our lives or in our community and that's the thing with the course of miracles it's so deep that if you just read one line from the course you know that this is an unfathomably unfathomably deep dive toward the light and Eric was saying he was drawn more and more to the light but you know if you want to just pop open and look at one line from the course it can show you how deep it is okay I'm communities good I like my I like my forgiveness lessons I'm clearing I'm cleaning how deep does the rabbit hole go what might be in store for me miracle principle from the beginning of the book you can heal the sick and raise the dead because you made sickness and death and can abolish both are you ready for that this is deep this is Jesus speaking you can heal the sick and raise the dead because you made sickness and death and can abolish them both that just gives you a glimpse of the rabbit hole you know whatever you thought your life was to be whatever you thought you had envisioned for your future I'll guarantee you as you go down the rabbit hole with Jesus you ain't seen nothing yet but baby you ain't you ain't seen nothing yet here's something that you're never going to forget that's God you know that's where that's that's where this is heading is to remembrance of God union with God so this is just a Jesus says in here this course is a beginning and not an end henceforth let the Holy Spirit direct all subsequent learning this is this is the deep stuff a lot of the stuff I mean I I really enjoy philosophy and I enjoy psychology and today we're going to have a treat because this this movie is about an eminent author and and and philosopher Ken Wilbur and his relationship with Treya who comes into his life and it's a love story it's a healing story and it's it's just at the foothills of the mountain we'll call ascension to God this is this is good we need foothills movies because they're very helpful as teaching learning devices so acting solely from joy I would say as as Ken Wilbur and Treya are brought together you can feel the vibrations that they're being called in a in a very deep way to take a very deep dive into into healing and and also I like the fact that with all the different movies that I show on these Saturdays and during these online retreats we come at it from every conceivable angle I mean recently we showed powder you might have seen powder 1995 movie we have shown movies slumdog millionaire was another one that was recent we've shown movies like we call them classics like dark city transcendence the Truman show eternal sunshine of a spotless mind and also from different angles we come at it we showed a William Shakespeare movie what was the name of that one all or nothing something like that and and it was an amazing experience for all of us we so we showed Fatima too that everybody was kind of in a deep mystical state of mind by the end of that movie Fatima spectacular but I I that William Shakespeare movie that I showed it was interesting because William Shakespeare was such an eminent writer many people consider him as far as literature they could in the English language at least we'll say is one of the greatest in the world most people know of Shakespeare he was a channel for spirit and yet the movie begins when the globe theater burns down in London and so this eminent writer Shakespeare with all of his plays and sonnets and directing and working with actors all abruptly comes to a halt when his theater burns down and he goes back to see his wife and daughters which he had not seen in years and it was like Jesus saying hey William you're ready to come out of the textbook and jump into the laboratory and whoa the emotions that came up for William Shakespeare when he went back to his his town and his house and his wife's that he hadn't seen for many many years and his daughters that he hadn't seen it was a plunge into allowing the unconscious mind to come up and probably with all the great writings and plays and sonnets he'd written he would tell you those last years of his life were the that was the the road over he was in with the plumber in his mind down to the depths of the unconscious mind going through healing some of you know how I say that spiritual awakening is one percent principle and 99 practice and Jesus had a message 2000 years ago to the scribes and the Pharisees and the ones that were always talking about the letter of the Jewish law you know he he was wanting to take us to the heart of love to the experience of divine love to to know God directly and that is very different from theology that is very different from religion that is very different from religious traditions even and so today's movie is another example instead of William Shakespeare we have more of a modern day writer philosopher Ken Wilbur Ken's probably not quite as famous as William Shakespeare but William got started earlier you know he had a head start give you just give him a couple couple hundred years and and Ken Wilbur Ken's famous around the world for people that study religion philosophy the perennial wisdom he his books are are spread all around the world he's very famous and in this movie he will have already reached some degree of fame we'll say from spiritual seekers that's his following those are the ones that read his book people that are really into seeking the spirit and he wrote his first book I think it was called like the spectrum of consciousness when he was 23 years old so he was like a prodigy usually people don't begin writing spectacular books that touch that will touch so many people around the world when they're 23 they're usually working at a hamburger joint to pay their their college or university tuition what was I doing at 23 probably cutting grass cutting lawns to get a little extra money Ken's writing spectrum of consciousness and then basically every year he writes another spectacular book usually one a year so by the time he meets Traia in this movie he's he's an eminent writer with Shambhala and his books are are spreading around the world and he has quite a following quite a uh readership and Traia is going to come into his life Traia is very very intuitive Traia is is very we could say in many ways integrated that her her life of her thoughts and her seemingly public life are very much the same she's she's transparent she's to the point or little uh themes she just blew away she's she's transparent she's to the point she's she's direct and I believe that when they're going to first meet she's I think she's 36 years old and he's he's a bit older and they're going to be brought together for an assignment that is very much based on deep healing and actually that is the purpose of all relationships all relationships are for healing the mind all relationships are for clearing the unconscious in a more rapid way why more rapid because people are mirrors of consciousness so the thoughts and the beliefs that you hold on to that you're not even aware of get acted out in the relationships and in the people that you perceive it's a fast track to enlightenment and for Ken and Traia this is going to be a huge acceleration they feel it vibrationally they are stepping into it and and going on this journey and it's it is pretty rapid fire because they will be drawn together get married and then quickly after their marriage the unconscious starts to arise very very rapidly Jesus talks about this in a course of miracles in chapters 15 to 24 and in those early chapters on special relationships and holy relationships he talks about being given an assignment in which it will be very dis disjunctive it's disjunctive to the ego because the purpose when you invite the Holy Spirit in for healing the purpose of the relationship is shifted dramatically from what it once was to what it will now serve healing forgiveness awakening to God the former structure was set up by the ego and it's almost like a rehab project where you have a house that's in need of lots of remodeling and repair and then suddenly you walk in the house and then you go needs a lot of work Holy Spirit please I invite you into Mikasa Tsukasa my mind is your mind please invite I invite you come in and then all hell breaks loose after you make that invitation because it is a mind overhaul that happens the everything that once was the ego and the ego believed it was its territory and its domain in fact consciousness is the domain of the ego Jesus tells us so when you invite the Holy Spirit into your relationship you're basically saying clean me out that's that's that's what you're saying to the to the Holy Spirit God's representative clean me out make me know my wholeness bring me to the light bring me joy I want joy I want lasting joy and happiness and and the Holy Spirit of course answers immediately to that prayer so in the context of of the movie we'll be watching the Traya and Ken will be invited by their their good friends Roger Walsh and Francis Vaughn this touches my heart because when I first came in touch with A Course in Miracles in 1986 it was at a conference in La Jolla California and Francis Vaughn and Roger Walsh were at that conference I got my Course in Miracles book exposure at the same conference and these two are married were married Francis has passed away but they are we're at the time and remained eminent trans personal psychologist they are really at the top of their field and they also lived in up in near Marin and northern California and I would say A Course in Miracles had and still has a huge focus in that area that's where Eric's from homegrown from northern California and that's where Judy Skutch our friends Judy Skutch Eric knows Judy very well actually worked and helped Judy on some projects and we've known each other for years Judy is based up there and her daughter Tamara Robert Bob Rosenthal the daughter Tamara and Bob are the co-co presidents of the Foundation for Inner Peace the publishers of A Course in Miracles and you may have heard of some of their friends Jerry Jampolsky who passed away not too long ago and there's so many great psychologists and trans personal psychologists Willis Harmon I mean there there are so many and they were the group of psychologists that were many of them open to exposure to A Course in Miracles which is saying something for a psychologist the course is from the master psychologist Jesus Christ and not every psychologist is so quick to jump on into that curriculum because it's it's really trans personal it's it's transcending the personal in every sense of of the word so I was happy to be at the conference and and really interact at this conference with Carl Rogers you know one of the the founders along with Abraham Maslow of humanistic psychology and then of course Abraham Maslow took it beyond humanistic psychology kind of was a force and the fourth force of psychology the trans personal psychology I that's dear in my heart I have some friends that I met that are kind of into psychedelics in ayahuasca and they say that's that warms my heart David psychedelics I'm not into psychedelics but I was into transpersonal psychology and and actually transpersonal psychology I think gave me the same experience as the psychedelics without medicine or drugs being around these people I was like lit up and transported even to stand next to Francis Vaughn Ken Wilbur one time he said oh yeah we all we all pretty much call Francis the wisest of wise women when your nickname is the wisest of wise women that's that's good I think we have our own Francis is the is the wisest of wise women so there's a lot of connections going on here and so Francis and Roger are friends with with Treya and they're friends with Ken Wilbur Judy scotch you know lots of connections out there in northern California and as the story goes this is not in the movie but I'll give you I know you love backstories too don't you know I you could talk to me for till the cows come home I know all the backstories of of course the miracles I've met almost all the characters not Helen or Bill but the rest everything I've met them all many times I know them very well they're very dear friends of mine so I have spent quite a bit of time with a lots of them but as a backstory Francis and Roger are married they're living in Francis Francis thought I had a beautiful house out in northern California and they're they're living there and they're working through their relationship stuff yes even transpersonal psychologists have relationship issues and they're working through their issues and they know Treya and they know Ken Wilbur so as Ken Wilbur says in his book Grace and grit which is the name of this movie you can buy the book you can read all the backstories if you want it's Shambhala you can buy the book and read the whole thing but as Ken Wilbur would say he was good friends with Francis and Roger and they were always trying to set him up with a relationship because he was single and they were married and some of you know that dynamic they the married couple always is talking to the single one saying I've got someone for you so Ken is an eminent writer and eminent philosopher and he goes over there and first it's Roger says I've got one for you now Roger he says always is setting him up with beautiful women every time Roger recommends somebody it's some gorgeous beautiful woman and so Roger says to Ken Wilbur I've got I've got the perfect one for you you really need to meet her her name is Treya or her official name is Terry Gilliam and and you really need to meet her and and as Ken tells the story Ken Wilbur says thank you but no thanks you know please would you I'm not please stop doing this you know I really don't like to be set up like this all the time and so some short time passes and then he he's talking to Francis Francis Vaughn and she always tries to set him up with the the woman that would be best for his soul so Roger's trying to set him up with the most gorgeous women and Francis is trying to set up she's the woman who's called the wisest of wise women she's trying to set him up with the one that will be best for his soul and so he's talking to Francis sometime after Roger gave this recommendation of Treya and then Francis says you really need to meet Treya and this is the first time that they've ever recommended the same woman and they have they come from different perspectives so as soon as she said you need to meet Treya then basically the words the three words that came out of Ken's mouth was I'll marry her that was his reaction when his two dear friends were trying to set himself up with the same woman he he really respected them he adored them you know please please stop it but they came with the same name and his first reaction was I'll marry her so there's lots of synchronicities and backstories to how the Holy Spirit works to bring up the unconscious for healing and this is a this is a beautiful love story it's also a a good example of of the Holy Spirit using time and space to bring the unconscious mind up to really flush the ego up from the unconscious into the surface and then the up we always have the choice whether to stuff it back down in the unconscious or we choose to release it to the light release it to the Holy Spirit and free our mind to come to know the will of God to come to have a direct experience of ourself as the Christ at one with God so that's a bit of the the backstory and I think the phrase that they use sometimes you hear of the phrase love at first sight they Ken Wilbur and Treya use the phrase love at first touch because that's how we'll see them meet is invited over for dinner with Roger Walsh and Francis Vaughn so they are invited to have dinner and the four of them will sit down at the table to have dinner and that's when it's felt by I think everyone there at the meal and particularly by Ken Wilbur and and Treya it's just this huge energy this huge sense of a feeling that they never have experienced before and if I had to put it in the Course in Miracle terms it's like oh good now I'm going to send you into the laboratory of a very deep use of relationship for healing and that's really what this this movie is about can we benefit from watching this movie yes Jesus says you don't have to go through everything physically because in Jesus's awareness nothing is physical that he's teaching us that this world is a mental construct and the world has not left the mind of the thinker so what is perceived to be the external world is still in the mind and that's why he tells us all illness is mental illness that's why he tells us there's there are no problems apart from the mind even in lesson 132 Jesus eases us in by saying there is no world apart from what you think you see he's telling us that the world is just thought and that we can release egoic thought and then come to experience a happy dream in a forgiven world with the Holy Spirit but the world is thought there is no world apart from what you think and then he goes on to really he says there is no world exclamation point he doesn't hold back okay get you in the waiting pool and there you go in the deep end my friend rest I remember she used to listen to my talks back in the 1990s and she would go to a nearby cemetery cemetery that's interesting seminary cemetery both but both are really they let you really examine your mind she would go through the cemetery was the second largest in the world and she would put on her remember the the first ones that came out this the Walkman yeah the first Walkman's account they weren't like wireless but you know the little earbuds and the Sony was it Sony or Apple Sony Sony Walkman yeah well we're going down through memory lane you know some of the younger of you are going what Sony Walkman what the heck is that what she would go through the cemetery Sony Walkman listening to my talks and then she would come to this little house I had called the peace house and she would come in sit down and she would have a cup of tea with me and she would ask me all these deep questions until one day she I think she was reading or listening to a talk of mine about lesson 132 in which Jesus says there is no world exclamation point and she came in and she sat down I got her a cup of tea and then she just she said he's done it now I said who Jesus what did he do he's done it now he's gone too far oh what what did Jesus do how did he go too far he he says there is no world he said now that is just that's just too far that's just how is that helpful she said how is that helpful for Jesus to say that and I said well he's he's just telling you that you need to live as if there is no world she said what does that even mean I said just live 100% intuitively live inside your heart live with in the core of your being live with the Holy Spirit that's what Jesus wants us to do is just live with Jesus in our hearts and then the world just seems to be there but then you are you're flowing from an intuitive heart experience you're not trying to judge the world or interact with the world and respond to an external world you're just living from the core of your being so she's she's finally after maybe an hour of that she said okay okay all right thank you and then she went into the bathroom and usually when she would go to the bathroom she would get these downloads from the angels and of course that's the song that they gave her that day was called as if and that was basically the whole message from the angels was matching with her experience of what we talked about as if there is no world as if there is no world a cosmic dream a made-up scheme where figures dance and swirl and nothing means a thing except the truth within that I am mined by God designed he's calling me to live as if there is no world if you want the whole song you can go downloaded for free at musicofchrist.net enjoy there's about 267 songs from the angels and if you happen to like music then this could be a pathway to God if you're a music lover just listen to 267 songs from the angels over and over and find out if your mind doesn't spring into expansion they're all from the angels they're all in line with the teachings of Jesus and of course in miracles so as we look at this movie this is an opportunity for us to really take in the symbols of the spirit orchestrating time and space using the symbol of relationship to uncover the ego to uncover the unconscious mind I will work with I would say the first hour or so of the movie and I will use commentary along with this movie to really point out the key points of spiritual awakening with relationships because this is the pathway of a course of miracles and then we will move forward toward the end of their relationship in physical form and and I'll give some comments toward the end of that as well because that will launch us into the breakout rooms today so I'm so grateful that you're with me and we can go through this together because oftentimes people tell me I wish I had more examples of how this pathway works in terms of relationships number one nothing is at random number two everything that you perceive in the relationship the perception of yourself and the perception of the the other are basically just past thoughts that are still believed to be real that are that are coming up for release so whenever you meet anyone Jesus says remember it's a holy encounter as you see him you will see yourself as you treat him you will treat yourself as you think of him you will think of yourself and then he says never forget this for in him you will find yourself or lose yourself if you allow the Holy Spirit to use the relationship it will release the mind from the past you will discover that the past is is gone if you let the ego use the relationship it will try to use the bodies for its own game to reinforce guilt and that's why in typically in human relationships there there can be a lot of darkness coming up a lot of arguments conflicts disagreements and what this is is the mind basically saying I want the past to be real and I'm going to play a skit to make sure that I reinforce that it's real meanwhile Jesus and the Holy Spirit are it's gone you're just reviewing mentally what's already gone it's already long gone it's it's already been answered by the Holy Spirit you can accept the the correction at any moment you want but when you are trying to hold on to a grievance you are wanting the past to be real you're just using the power of the mind to try to keep the past alive in awareness and Jesus is saying let it go let it go let it go don't hold back anymore let it go let it go the past is in the past you know here I stand it's the holy instant here is here I am now I'm free I'm free now and that's what I really need to experience that's what trusting in the present is all about you you let the Holy Spirit guide you in this moment instead of relying on past learning past programming past conditioning and that is our purpose so for all of you that are here for this experience from all over the world I'm again I'm so grateful we're all together here in this and I think this is a I think this is a good movie this is really a healing movie especially since I I enjoy philosophy enjoy enjoy someone like Ken Wilbur and then enjoy seeing the spirit bring in a a direct transparent female character with an eminent philosopher and writer oh you see how Jesus loves it he's like let's see where the rubber meets the road let's let's really get into the laboratory stop reading the textbook and really come together for a forgiveness practice let's really empty the mind through relationships not just through meditation not just through contemplation but let's actually use the mirroring of relationship to to free the mind and to remember the Christ and ultimately to obviously remember God if you remember the Christ then you remember the Creator so enjoy the movie and I will pop in during the movie for commentary and then wow we're off to the races today you know this is we're taking off with Jesus in a big way and I'm really honored that you cannot be here with me very good


Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. In fact, as Aditya spoke about my brief introduction, I'm Nenad. I'm vice-president sales for Gupture. And I'm here to talk about delivering OTT experience directly to the subscribers messaging app, right? So out here, I'm pretty excited to be in this particular forum. Thanks for the organizers to give this particular opportunity to talk about the clear conversational messaging experience for the OTT platform with consumers in mind. I'll talk about some of the critical aspects today as to why conversational messaging and engagement is so very important to deliver a better consumer experience for OTT customers. What lies in future in terms of conversational messaging and why consumers are wanting to or rather prefer to interact with OTT brands on the messaging platform. And typically what lies in future for some of the OTT players which they can leverage upon these messaging platform to converse, engage and give better experience to the consumer right in the messaging inbox of the user. Yeah, so there are in last five years or so, there are like four critical events which have happened which are large in nature. One, the mobile smartphone penetration which has gone up crazily. It has witnessed almost like 700 million users in the country that we stay in. The other thing which has happened is the data which has gone more affordable thanks to GEO. The third thing which has typically has happened which all of us we have gone through it is the pandemic which has expedited the entire digital adoption not only from businesses but also from the users dramatically within three years time that we have witnessed. It has expedited by five years so far. And fourth which is not many people out here in this particular room would know that UPI transactions have reached and crossed like 5.5 billion mark in a month right. So the last month's numbers are close to 5.6 billion transactions which have happened on the platform. So all of this put together has taken a magical transformation of digital platform adoption by the users to the growth level which we underestimated earlier. All the media platforms are growing at a rapid space. The users or viewers are spending more time out there on digital platforms. But the thing which is out here is there which is being witnessed dramatically differently is there for OTT platforms. It is outpacing the entire growth journey which is there on the adoption side of the users. It is being looked at that OTT industry is going to cross 5.5 billion mark in next four years time. And study says that more than 27% viewers or users or customers they feel that what they have seen during that pandemic period in terms of going back to the digital native experiences it is not going to turn back right. So it is a change which has gone irreversible so far. With these kind of massive adoption in terms of digital platforms the overall interaction of the consumers on any of the digital platform has gone 52% overboard right. And the consumers are interacting with digital platform even more. So on the overall interaction of the consumers 52% of interactions are digital natures today. With this kind of massive growth there is lot of pressure which has come in on digital platforms like OTT players to extend a fantastic experience for the users by interacting with them on the channel of choice which they are currently operating on. But overall if you look at the experience or communication between the user and OTT platforms is broken. If you talk about the marketing or commerce or support journeys out here it is completely broken in terms of the user wanting to cross multiple barriers in terms of every journey which they get on to while interacting with OTT players. The current scheme of things in terms of standard stack of communication is send one way notification and alerts to the user on say SMS or email or voice for that matter. But here the audiences of OTT channel are there on multiple communication channels right. They are spread across IP messaging channels like WhatsApp or Instagram or Telegram or Facebook Messenger and so on and so forth. It has become very difficult for OTT players to gauge the user, segment them appropriately and reach out to them on the channel of choice of preference which the user is having. At the same time there are multiple language barriers which the OTT platform is supposed to cross right. While the content is there in the language of preference but the communication to the user hasn't been great in the language of preference the user is wanting to have. So this is creating a lot of pressure for OTT brands in terms of making sure that they are able to communicate with the user in a manner it is required. If you look at the user's preference today right, they're flocking on to messaging apps like crazy. The growth in terms of their interaction on messaging app with their peers, family and friends is massive out there. What they are expecting that the customers are expecting that the communication with the brands needs to be very interactive, it needs to be personalized in nature and it needs to be responsive all the while. 64% of the consumers they feel that the communication with the brand which they interact it needs to be far more interactive in nature. 57% consumers feel that responsiveness is the major factor in terms of getting a support query resolved by the brand at any one point in time. And 91% users they prefer that the consumer communication which is being led to them needs to be personalized in nature. So as things are moving at a very fast pace if you look at the kind of growth WhatsApp has had in the country like India we are number one country for WhatsApp with more than 500 million active users on monthly basis which WhatsApp has witnessed. There are 2 billion users active across the world of which there are 175 million users which are interacting with brands business account on WhatsApp on daily basis. And it is growing exponentially every day as we speak. 91% or 90% of the users which are there on Instagram they follow at least one brand which they are loyal to. And these are staggering gas stats out here which brands they need to know they need to follow the users where they are right. 85% of the consumers they feel that if at all they are interacting with the users interacting with the brand the brand needs to interact with them in a personalized manner right. And they feel that well while they are interacting with the brand on a IP messaging channel that there is a strong possibility of building relationship. So there is a strong need for every brand OTT brand to communicate with the users in a personalized manner whether it is going to be discovery of the content which is required to be pushed across to them through promotional messaging or it could be eliminating the fatigue which is there in terms of identifying which show or which movie I need to watch it right. That needs to be pretty much made available with the user instantly on the channel of preference which they have. Communication in the language of preference is something which is of urgent need today because users are wanting to get communicated with the way they would want to have in the language of preference they need to. There are multiple facets which the OTT player needs to look at it while they are leveraging upon the messaging channel. They should be there on the channel of preference which the consumers are. Like what we talked about just now is WhatsApp or Instagram growth or similarly there are IP messaging channels like Telegram or RCS where the consumers are flocking to they need to be there. They need to converse with the brand with the users in the language of preference which we spoke about but most importantly they need to be available with the user 24 by 7 addressing their queries and giving them support on an ongoing basis and make their lives simpler. Sorry about this remote it's not working the way I would want to but yeah I'll take it forward. Yeah so OTT brand needs to reach out to all the users across the lifecycle of the user be it a commerce journey or it could be a pre-purchase journey or it could be a support journey by sending right kind of communication to the users in timely manner which could be contextual in nature. Out here it's of utmost importance for the brand to engage with the user throughout the journey in a manner which is required but achieving it at a scale is a challenge. Out here talking to a user with a human effort or human in the loop is going to be a very urgent task for every brand to get on to. That's why intelligent chatbots are helping building conversations and building engagement on the communication channel on behalf of the brand in the manner it is required. Gone are the days that someone needs to call on an IVR and press 1, 2, 3, 2, 2, choose a language and then talk to someone with an identified problem and get that particular query resolved. Today the bots are doing a fantastic job in terms of understanding the user providing the right kind of contextual aspect to the user then in itself and making sure the user's queries are resolved and pushing the right and relevant kind of content to the user as and when it is required. Futurized with these intelligent chatbots with artificial intelligence capabilities there is a lot of personalization which could be achieved at a scale with customized content which is being pushed across the user in a timely manner. The payments reminders or repayment which is required for renewals it could be done in a very seamless manner. So, future lies with AI chatbots which will help brands to really scale up their communication and engagement in a manner it is required. At Gapshap what we believe is helping the brands, OTT brands in an ideal stack with the tech platform which is designed to have is what we have built so far. We have pre-integrated with the more than 30 plus IP based messaging channels which the brand can leverage to engage with the consumers by leveraging upon the single API which is Omnichannel in nature. And on top of it what we have built is a artificial intelligence stack which leads to a conversational layer for the brands to engage with the user in a manner it is required. So, the out-of-box plug-and-play aspect of AI which are pre-built templates that we have the bot journey builder that we have built in which is far more robust in nature and obviously there are pre-trained AI models that we help the brand leverage upon to build consumer journeys across commerce or support or even marketing for that matter. Gapshap is the leading conversational engagement platform we are the number one conversational platform in India. We work with more than 45,000 enterprises out here we enable more than 9 billion messages through our platform every month and this we achieve through a single Omnichannel API. This has helped us to work with some of the leading brands across industry whether it is BFSI or it could be e-commerce and retail more importantly in media industry with some of the large OTT players which are working with us leveraging our platform and building some of the interesting journeys for their customer. Some of the use cases which I will talk about in terms of the pre-purchase journeys which could be quickly built on by the OTT players to engage make consumers discover new things on messaging apps like WhatsApp or Instagram or Telegram or RCS they should be able to make the user get to know about new offers or deals which are there they will be able to get notifications done in a customized manner to push across the content which is desired to have. In terms of the purchase aspect of the journey which is there for every user to engage with the brand it's pretty rudimentary as of today right what we have innovated more is in terms of making sure the user buys the product or services of OTT brand on the fly, on the move within real time as such the kind of innovation that we have done is via one click bill pay which is an award winning solution that we have built for many of the BFSI and utility and subscription led companies which is helping them reduce the overall customer acquisition cost by can you help me with this remote please this has helped most of these utility companies and subscription led platforms to acquire the new users get their payments very quickly what it does is typically with a small text message which goes out as a reminder to the user on the fly underneath there is a artificial intelligence stack that we have built which converts this message into pure text plus an embedded link which covers with a call to action button which is paid now it gets sent out on WhatsApp as a message the user is simply supposed to tap on pay now button and his default UPI app on his device gets launched and he simply needs to put in his pin to make the payment which is pre-embedded within the app itself this has helped all these companies to reduce the overall cat from 120 rupees in terms of payment collection to 8 rupees now there is a massive amount of conversion which has happened earlier it used to be less than one suboptimal 1% today all this messaging conversion is beyond 10% so far this is helping all the brands to A. acquire customers seamlessly by making them give an experience of payments which is seamless in nature B. it is able to help the brands to retain the consumers on the fly our out-of-box customer support journeys are pretty much available for brands to pick it up we support multi-agent dashboard for the brand to interact and engage with the customer fulfilling the queries and complaints on an ongoing basis and it can work 24 by 7 through the chatbot that we have built which is far more customized in nature this could be leveraged by the OTT players in a manner it is required for the consumers to get the queries resolved in the language of preference they have and in the time of urgency this works in a fantastic manner where the users are wanting to engage with the brand on the messaging channel of their choice then send there are many brands which are already using a lot of communication channel through the chatbot which Gapshap has built out and let them engage with the consumers some of the other use cases that we have been experimenting with some of the movie production houses and OTT players is talking billboards which essentially is QR code enabled billboards where the user could scan the QR code and the entire offline transaction offline conversation could be taken to an online medium on IP based messaging channel like say WhatsApp or Instagram where the user would be able to discover the movie through the trailer the movie shows which are running in the nearest theater of that particular user's location or it could be engaging with the users engaging with the brand and the celebrity which could be the actor or filmmaker of that particular movie on the messaging channel itself this is like giving high engagement aspect for the user to build loyalty for the brand which they are just getting engaged to as I said there are many OTT players which are already consuming two-way conversation journey we are here to help you out I'm here to answer any of your questions or queries or in the interest of time it's showing times up on the screen for me but in the interest of time we have a booth out here you can drop in at the booth we have representatives including me we will be able to catch up with you and discuss it thank you so much


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from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hello everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California at theCUBE Studio. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE. We're at Sylvan Chop, who's the head of solution architecture at Open Systems, securing SD Win and a variety of other cloud 2.0-like capabilities, very successful 20 plus years operation. Sylvan was one of the first folks coming over to the U.S. to expand their operation from Europe into New York now here in Silicon Valley. Welcome to the CUBE Conversation. Thank you, John. So, institution trivia, you were part of the original team of three to move to the U.S. from Switzerland. You guys had phenomenal success in Europe. You've come to the U.S., having phenomenal success in the U.S. Now you move in West out here to California, you're on that team.  It's been a chance, like things kind of presented themselves step by step, and I jumped on the trains and it's been a good ride. Awesome, you guys have had great success. We interviewed your CEO and a variety of your top people. One of the things that's interesting story is that you guys have been around for a long time, been there, done that, riding this next wave of digital transformation, what we call cloud 2.0, but it really is about enterprise, about full cloud scale, securing it. You have a lot of organic growth with customers, great word of mouth, so that's not a lot of big marketing budgets, real success there. You guys now are in the U.S. doing the same thing here. What's been the key to success for Open Systems? Why such good customers? Why the success formula? Is it you guys are on the right wave? Is it the product, all the above? What's the secret formula? So, multiple things I'd say. And we started as a privately owned company, like brought banks to the internet, email, and so on back in the 90s. And yeah, we started to grow organically, as you said, word by mouth. And in the end, we put heavy focus on operations. So we wanted to make our customers happy and successful. And yeah, that's how we got there. Like, it was slow organic growth, but we always kind of kept the core. And we tried to be unconventional. We tried to do things differently than others do. And that's what it brought us to where we are today. And now, new capabilities being here in the valley opens up a lot of more doors. You guys got a nice office in Ribbon Sea. I saw the video. So props for that, congratulations. But the real, to me, the meat on the bone and the story is that, and I've been really ranting on this whole SD-WAN is changing. SD-WAN used to be around for a long, long time. It's a known industry. It's known market. It's got a total addressable market. But really what it really talks to is the cloud. The cloud is a wide area network. Wide area networks used to be locked down. You had the old way, premier based security. Now, everything is a wide area. It's a multi-cloud and hybrid cloud. This is essentially networking. It's a networking paradigm. So it's not literally rocket science, technically. But the cloud 2.0 shift is about data. It's about applications, different architectures. You have everything kind of coming together which creates a security problem and an opportunity for new people to come in. That's what you guys are one of them. This is the big wave. Explain the new SD-WAN, the old way and the new way. What should people know about the new SD-WAN marketplace? Yeah, so let me start where the WAN has come from and how digital transformation has impacted that. So typically corporate wide area networks are centered around, typically a data center where all applications were hosted, storage and everything and all traffic was backhauled into the data center. Typically you have one single provider that brought you MPLS links and it was all good. You had a central location where you could manage it. You had all visibility. Security stack was there.  Now, new requirements from digital transformation brought is users are on the road. They're on their phones, iPads, on the in restaurants and hotels, Starbucks, wherever. We have applications moved to the cloud. So they're accessed directly. You want to have or be as close as possible. Unify communications, IOT, it's all things that pose different requirements now in the network. And the traditional architecture didn't or wasn't able to respond to that. It's just that the links, they were filled up.  You lost visibility because users were on the road. You lost control and that's where new architectures had to be found. That's where SD-WAN stepped in and say, hey, look, now we're not centered around the headquarter anymore. We're centered around where the applications are. We're centered around where the data is and we need to find means to connect to that data as quickly as possible. And so you can use the internet. Internet has become commodity. It's become more performant, more stable. So we can leverage that. We can route traffic according to our policies. We can include the cloud. And that's where SD-WAN actually benefits from the cloud as much as the cloud benefits from SD-WAN because they go hand in hand. And that's also what we really drive to say, hey, look now the cloud can be directly brought into your network, no matter where data and where applications are. Yeah, and this is the thing. I mean, although I've been critical of SD-WAN, I still see it as the path of the future because it's networking. At the end of the day, networking is networking. You're moving packets from point A to point B and you're moving somebody to store it, you move it from point A to store it to point C. It's hard, and you brought this up about MPLS, it's hard to like rip and replace. You can't just do a wholesale change on the network because the networks are running businesses. So this is where the trick is, in my opinion. So I want to get your thoughts on how companies are dealing with this because I mean, if you want to move, change something in the network, it takes a huge task. How did you guys discover this new opportunity? How did you implement it? What was the, and how should customers think about not disrupting their operations at the same time, bringing in the new capabilities of this SD-WAN 2.0? Yeah, that's a perfect sweet spot because in the end, nobody starts at a green field. If you could start with a green field, it's easy. You just take on the new technology and you're happy. But customers that we look up, large enterprises, they have a brown field, they have an existing network, they have business critical applications running 24-7. And if you look at what options large enterprises have to implement and manage in SD-WAN is typically three approaches. They either do it themselves, meaning they need a major investment in onboarding people, having the talent, evaluating technology and making the project work. Or they look at a conventional managed service provider. In the end, that is just the same as do it yourself. It's just done by somebody else. And you have the challenge that those providers typically have a lot of portfolio that they manage and they do not have enough expertise in SD-WAN. And so you just end up with the same problems and a lot of service chaining. So even then, you do not get the expertise that you need. I think what's interesting about what you guys have done, I want to get your reaction to this is that the managed service piece of it makes it easier to get in without a lot of tinkering with existing infrastructure. And that's been one of the tailwinds for you guys and success-wise. Talk about that dynamic of why the managed service is a good approach. Because you put your toe in the water, so to speak, and you can kind of get involved, get as much as you need to go and go further. Talk about that dynamic and why that's important. Yeah, technology chain is very quickly. So you need people that are able to manage that. And Open Systems as a pure play provider, we purposely build our platform for SD-WAN. So we integrate feature sets, we know how to monitor it, how to configure it, how to manage it, life cycle management, technology risk, technology management, all this is purposely built into it. So we strongly believe that to be successful, you need people that are experts in what they do to help you so that you and your IT people can focus in enabling the business. And that's kind of our sweet spot where we then say we have experts, our experts operating the network for you as a customer. And therefore, our experts are your experts. And that's kind of where we believe that a managed service done the right way ends up in, yeah, the best customers. And I think the human capital piece is interesting and people can level up faster when you're not just deploying here, here's the software, load it. It's a little collaboration support in there. You guys done good there. All right, while you're on this topic, I want to get your thoughts since you're an expert. We've been really evaluating this Cloud 2.0 for lack of a better description. Cloud 2.0 implying that the Cloud 1.0 was Amazon. Amazon, the success of Amazon web services really shows DevOps in action, agility, the lean startup, all that stuff we've been reading about for the past 10 plus years. Great, compute, storage, at scale, amazing use of data. Like you said, Greenfield, why not use the cloud? Great. Now all the talk about hybrid cloud, even going back to 2013, we were at VMworld at that time, it's our 10th year there. Hybrid cloud was just introduced. Now it's mainstream, now multi-cloud is around the corner. This teases out Cloud 2.0. Enterprise cloud, enterprise scale, enterprise security, cloud security, monitoring 2.0 is observability, you got Kubernetes, all these new things are coming on. This is the new Cloud 2.0. What is your definition of Cloud 2.0 if you had to describe it to a customer or a friend? It is really a sum of hybrid cloud or multi-cloud as you wanna name it, because in the end, probably nobody can say, I just select one cloud and that's gonna make me successful. Because in the end, cloud is, it's not everywhere as we kind of used to believe in the beginning, but in the end, it's somebody else's computer in somebody else's data center. So the cloud is, you selectively pick the location where you wanna deploy your cloud instances and as the cloud service providers open up more locations that are closer to your users and your data, you actually can leverage more possibilities. So what we see emerging now is that while for a long time, everything has moved to the cloud, the cloud is again coming back to us at the edge. So a lot of compute stuff is done close to where data is generated. It's where the users are. I mean, data is generated with us, yeah, phones and touch and feel and vision and everything. So we can leverage these technologies to really compute closer to the data, but everything controlled out of central cloud instances. So this brings up a good point. You essentially kind of agreeing with cloud one, dot O being moved to the cloud. But now you're mentioning something that's really interesting around cloud 2.0, which is moving, having cloud, certainly public clouds, great, but now moving technology to the edge, edge being a data center, edge being industrial IoT and other things, wind farms, whatever, users running around, remote, as you mentioned. So the edge is now becomes a critical component of this cloud 2.0. Okay, so I got to ask the question, how does the networking and what's the complexity? And I'm just imagining massive complexity from this. What are some of the complexities and challenges and opportunities that will arise out of this new dynamic of cloud 2.0? So the traditional approaches just don't work anymore. So we need new ways to not only on the networking side, but obviously also on the security side. So we need to make sure that not only the network follows in the footsteps of the business of what it needs, but actually the network can drive business innovation and that the network is ready to handle those new leaps in technologies. And that's what we see is kind of being able to tightly integrate whatever pops up, being able to quickly connect to a SaaS provider, quickly integrate a new cloud location into your network and have the strong security posture there directly integrated is what you need. Because if you always have to think about wait, if I add this, it's going to break something else and I have to do changes here, then you lose all the speed that your business needs. I mean the ripple effect of, it's like throwing the stone in the lake and seeing the ripple effect with cloud 2.0, you mentioned a few of them, network and security, I want to get to that in a second. But doesn't it change every aspect of computing categories, backup, monitoring, I mean all the sectors that were traditional siloed on-premise that moved to the cloud are now being disrupted again for the third time. You agree with that? It's true, yeah, and I mean your cloud point 1.0, you say a lot of things will be seen as lift and shift and that still works, like there is a lot of workloads where it's not worth it to refactor everything. But then for your core applications, the business where the business makes money, you want to leverage the latest set of technologies to really drive your business there. I got to get your take on this, because you're the head of architecture solutions at Open Systems. There's a marketing tagline that I saw that you guys promote, which I want to get your thoughts on. It says, stop treating your network like a network. Little marketing, I love it, but it's kind of like stop treating your network like a network, implying that the network's changing, maybe inadequate, antiquated, needs to modernize, I'm kind of feeling the vibe there on that. What do you mean by that slogan?  What's the purpose behind that? Yeah, in the end, it should be a little thought provoking. But I mean, even SDVAN in its pure forms where you have a software controller that steers your traffic along different path, already for me as an engineer, I kind of lose my mind because I want to know where routing is going. I want to deterministically define my policy so I always have things under control. But now it's a software agent that takes care of it for me. So that already, I lose control in favor of more capabilities. And I think that's, cloud just kind of accelerates this. So you guys really put security kind of in between the network and application. Is that the way you're thinking about it? It used to be, network was at the bottom, you built the application, had security, now you're thinking differently. Explain the architectural thinking around this because this is a modern approach that you guys are taking and I want to get this on the record. Applications are serving users and machines, network delivers packets, and then you're saying securities wrapping up between them, explain. So when we go back again to the traditional model, central data center, you had a security stack, full rack of appliances that took care of your security, it was easy to manage. Now, if you want to go SDVAN, connect every branch side to the internet, you cannot replicate such an infrastructure to every branch location, it just doesn't scale. So what do you do? Either you say, I cannot benefit of this, or I use new methods. And that's where we say we integrate security directly into our networking stack. So to be able to not rely on the service chaining, but have everything compiled into one platform and be able to leverage that data is passing through our network device, but then why not apply the same security functions that we used to do in our headquarter directly at the edge. And therefore, every branch benefits of the same security posture that I typically or traditionally only had in my data center. You guys also win as a strategic infrastructure, critical infrastructure opponent, I would agree with that, that's obvious. But as we get into hybrid cloud and multi-cloud infrastructure as a service support, seamless integration is critical. This has become a topic that we'll certainly be talking about for the rest of the year at VMworld and re-invent and other conferences like Microsoft Ignite as well. This is the big challenge for customers. Do I invest in Azure, AWS, Google, and then another cloud? Who knows how many clouds are coming? That'd be another cloud potentially around the corner. I don't want to fork my development team. I don't want to create different code bases. This has become kind of like the challenge. How do you see this playing out? Because again, the applications want to run on the best cloud possible. I'm a big believer in that. I think that the cloud should dictate, the app should dictate which cloud runs. And that's why I'm a believer in the single cloud for the workload, not the single cloud for all workloads. So your thoughts? I think from an application point of view, as you say, the application guys have to determine what cloud is best for them. I think from a networking point of view as a network architect, we need to, we cannot work against this, but enable them and be able to find ways that the network can seamlessly connect to whatever cloud the business wants to use. And there is plenty of opportunity to do that today and to integrate or partner with other providers that actually have partnered with dozens of cloud providers. And as we now can architect, we have solutions to directly bring you as a customer within milliseconds to each cloud premise is a huge advantage. It takes a few clicks in a portal, you have a new cloud instance up and running and now you're connected. And the good thing is we have different ways to do that, either we spin up our virtual instance, virtual SD-WAN appliance in cloud environments so we can leverage the internet to go there, still all secured, all encrypted, or then we again use different cloud interconnections to access the clouds depending on the business requirements. You guys have been very successful with a lot of companies from financial services, the UN with NGOs, a variety of industries. So I want to get your thoughts on this. I've been, we've been covering the department of defenses joining, Jedi joint enterprise initiative, defense initiative where the debate was sole single purpose cloud. Now the reality is, and we've covered this on Silicon Angle that DOD is going multi-cloud as an organization because they're going to have Microsoft cloud for collaboration and other contracts that they're going to win an $8 billion account. So there's a variety of cloud opportunities but for the particular workload for the military, they have unique requirements. Their workload has chosen one cloud. That was the controversy. So I want to get your thoughts on this. Should the workloads dictate the cloud? And is that okay? And certainly multi-cloud is preferred in Arata instances, but is it okay to have a single cloud for a workload? Yeah, again, if the business is okay with that, that's fine. From our side of view, we see a lot of, a lot of business that have global presence. So they are spread across the globe. So for them, it's beneficial to then distribute workloads again across different regions. And it could still be the same provider but across different regions. And then already question is, how do you now route traffic between those workloads? Do you leverage your SD-WAN infrastructure or do you actually use, for example, the backbone that the cloud provider provides you?  So it gives us whole new opportunities to leverage a large provider's backbone. And this is an interesting nuance point because multi-cloud doesn't have to be this workload spreading the workload across three different clouds. It's this workload works on, say, the Amazon, this workload works on Azure, this workload works on another cloud. That's multi-cloud from a reality standpoint today. So that implies that most every company will be multi-cloud. Yeah, for sure. But workloads might have a single cloud for either the routing and the transit security with the data stored, and that's okay too. Yeah, and keep in mind cloud is not only infrastructure or platform as a service, it's also software as a service. So as soon as we have Salesforce, Workday, Office 365, Dropbox or Box, then we are multi-cloud. So basically the clouds are fighting it out by the applications that they support and the infrastructure behind it. Exactly. All right, well, what's next for you? You're on the road. You guys doing a lot of customer activity. What's the coolest thing that you're seeing in the customer base from open system standpoint that you like to share with the audience? So again, it's just cool to see that customers realize that there's plenty of opportunities and just to see how we go through that evolution with our customers where initially they were a little concerned, but then eventually we see that actually the network change drives new business projects and customers are happy that they launch or collaborate with us. That's what makes me happy and makes me kind of continue on down the path. And securing it is a key win in this market, having security. Absolutely, yeah, have a peace of mind and not wake up at 2 a.m. full sweat because you're... Well, managed service is a preferred format. People like to consume and procure product in. So congratulations and congratulations on your Silicon Valley office. Looking forward to chatting more. I'm John Furrier here in the CUBE studios for CUBE Conversation. Thanks for watching.