What's up, everyone? I'm Giovanni. Welcome back to another Coin Telegraph live stream show Today I have the pleasure to be joined by Ian Martins, CEO of Atoll Labs and Alex Nassimiento, a member of the blockchain faculty at the University of California and founder of SevenCC Blockchain Investment How are you doing guys today? Excellent. Pleasure to be talking to you again also with Professor Alex and all the audience Yeah, no, it's a pleasure. Thanks Giovanni for having us Great to be here and fantastic to chat with the with everyone around the world listening to us Yeah, that's a pleasure. So Just to introduce you guys so for those who don't know in a nutshell Hathor is an open source blockchain architecture on which users can create their own token and Basically today Hathor is launching a new initiative called called Atoll Green an initiative to encourage the usage of renewable energy practices for Bitcoin mining So before we start the conversation I would like to remind our audience that this is an interactive live stream show So please write your comments in the chat and I will ask our guests Especially considering that this is a very important topic because we we are talking a lot about this Bitcoin Renewable energy issue that Hathor is going to tackle and is explaining how today So let's get let's get into it Jan, maybe you would like to just go a little bit more in details about what Hathor Network is Sure, thank you Giovanni As I said, we are an easy to use blockchain that the moment it's pretty easy to issue your own token We are based on the PhD work of our CTO of Dr. Marcello he proposed back 2018 a new architecture for distributed ledger technologies Where there's a combination of a dag of transactions and the traditional blockchain So we do have blocks and we also do have mining It's very important for us. We also use proof of work as consensus Magnus the same as a Bitcoin Which is why we're here to talk about a bit about mining and green mining So yeah, I think in a nutshell, that's it Great. So now that people understand what After network is now we can go into the actual initiative that you are launching today, which is a Hathor green So, can you tell us a little bit about this initiative? How did you come up with it? And what is the goal of this initiative? Sure. Yeah, as much as I'd like to take credit for it. I cannot because this is an idea of one of our closest advisors rods, so he's very much into mining and with all this debate that's been going on with the energy use and the the origin of the energy used He proposed that so we incentivize the miners that use renewable energy because I mean, I think we can go a bit into the debate of Energy use in Bitcoin, but I think everyone can agree That's using renewable energies for that is a good thing despite if we think that The energy consumption is too high or not, but I think everyone can agree that green Energy being used is a good thing so he proposed that so we incentivize miners for doing that and What's the best way to do that? If not, you can then extra incentive So that's the basic idea of catering that we're launching today. It's let's say for these first couple months It's a pilot. We also want to see what we're gonna get in terms of adoption and Know understanding with the miners if this is an important thing so basically any miner that use renewable energy to Minehatter and at the same time since we support merged mining, they're gonna be mining Bitcoin or Bitcoin cash or Bitcoin as we He'll be able to receive extra rewards in HDR or native token So he's in a sense incentivize to a good behavior to using renewable energy Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then we're gonna get deeper into this concept of Merge mining a little bit later because this is a crucial to make people understand What is the point of this initiative? Yeah, but first I would like to ask Alex What do you think of this idea of incentivizing miners to use renewable energy? Is it? Is it like the most? Viable option to solve bitcoins environmental problem according to you Very good question Giovanni. Thanks. I think that there is two things we're facing now in the world, right? We're we're coming to a global understanding that climate change is a major problem and it should be at the front Row seat of any kind of major government Agency investor corporation. It's definitely a problem. We're all humanity should be tackling as Bitcoin and other and other cryptocurrencies are becoming more popular and Certainly having a wider global adoption that those two Those two topics are converging right and then now We're trying to figure it out. How do we minimize the footprint of? cryptocurrency mining and Processing and it's not only cryptocurrencies. It's kind of like any kind of a data center or any kind of large consumption of energy so Just a few data points. I don't know if you guys had a chance to read the recent Bank of America Report on on climate change and and cryptocurrencies We're getting an increase of about 40 million tons of carbon emissions in the last two years. That's about Almost 9 million cars on the road equivalent to right if you would look at Bitcoin mining That that energy consumes more than the countries of Greece, Chile or Czech Republic So that's that's a problem. We as an industry and are trying to tackle and The program of a Hathor green is one of the greatest initiatives in the space that I have seen so far as an investment Firm we're taking a very close look on how we can work with ESG funds to allocate funds into the space and ESG is projected to go to over 50 trillion dollars in the next four years So a lot of money a lot of incentives are looking at the space and I think hathor green as a good good bridge To bridge that kind of interest that kind of incentive into our industry Mm-hmm Yeah, and those those are all very good points. I am just seeing that I have a we have a question from the audience It's not exactly right directly related to the after after green initiative. It's more about the future plans of after network so What are the next plans for other network Ian? Maybe you can just quickly remind our your audience about the next milestones that your project hope to achieve Yeah, sure. I mean we do have our roadmap and then we have a new post detail it Also, we are coming to around on Q2. So we probably update Updated and all the community about the next steps I think one of the most sought after features and I also see there's a question about it. It's in a contract Which is coming up? also since there's been a lot of interest in NFTs it's it's one of the things that we kind of fast-tracked and Yesterday we did announce a major partnership for NFTs here in Brazil Which is also an interesting topic for us to talk about because one of the first questions that this artist Which is like a really well-known a global influencer with over 40 million YouTube subscribers one of the first topics he asked was what about energy use, you know, so I believe all the All the projects of companies looking to build on top of networks Any blockchain they're gonna be mindful of that. So I think that's that makes it even more interesting and Pressing for us to address all these these issues as a professor Alex just outlined Mm-hmm Awesome, so I think now we are ready to get a bit more understanding of what to merge mining means so the other network offers this feature which is Merge mining which in a nutshell as far as I understand allows Bitcoin miners to mine both two different coins one Bitcoin and the Hattwork network coin so can you explain Ian? What is the point? What is the advantage for for miners to practice this merge mining? activity and How that is key in order to make this other green initiative function Yeah, sure Merge mining is an interesting concept if I believe it was Satoshi himself who won the Bitcoin top? post back in 2010 Talked about the possibility of chains sharing the hashrate. So as you said, it's pretty spot on It allows Bitcoin miners actually miners of any coin that uses in our case a shot you five six To mine at the same time Bitcoin or or maybe Bitcoin cash or Bitcoin is me and also a CR Which is our coin so they're gonna be using the same work To to mine both points. They don't have any extra costs This is already something important to understand in the green perspective because in a sense for Mining a CR you are not using extra energy. So it's already a very green chain If you take this perspective because there's no extra energy used So on top of that we want to have this Program they have to bring programs to incentivize the miners as well but in India in the very basis of it is already a very green in ESG compliance network itself by user Mm-hmm, and I'm actually curious Is it possible to do this merge mining with more than just two coins? Is it possible like for example to merge simultaneously three four five different coins or It just it just works with two No, it does it's possible to mine multiple points at the same time I mean as long as One of the coins supported. So in our case We we support merge mining. So you can merge mine a CR with let's say Bitcoin But if you have other other points that also support merge mining so you could mine Bitcoin HTR and these other points So it's really good because the same work is being used to secure all this all this network, right? and for proof-of-work Change that's the most important thing that this work is being used to secure secure this change and also to answer your first questions about What's the the benefit for us for using it? It allows us to to gain a very high hash rate Very quickly because we are kind of tapping each of the Into the hash rate of the Bitcoin network, which is the most secure one So I mean that that was the the main idea that we wanted to achieve when we When we decided to move forward with merge mine Since we are proof-of-work chain security and the hash rate is it's fundamental So achieving a high hash rate is is super important Okay So for the audience, I think that it's worth to Simplify this this system as far as I understand basically if you are a Bitcoin miner You might want to Tap into your project start mining the hot or network token as well with this merge mining procedure Prove you that as a Bitcoin miner. I'm using renewable energies And once I prove it to you I get rewards with the net with the hot or network token And that's basically the incentive that you're providing Yeah, that that's correct. I mean on top of the ACR that you're gonna be mining You know, we also gonna provide extra ACR for those who can prove to use renewable energy green energy And I saw there was a one question here about if you do merge mining you would return On BTC or HR would be any less. No, you don't have any performance impact I use merge mine. So your BTC Rewards would be the same and these here also would be the same as if you're doing a solo mining Yeah, awesome. That was a good that was a good point. That's that was a good question to ask So maybe Alex, what do you think about this system of incentives for miners? Do you think that it's it can be a viable solution to tackle this environmental problem of Bitcoin? Oh, I think he Know I think it's it's essential, right? There's a lot of press negative press. There's a lot of noise against Bitcoin mining If we look from an economical perspective Bitcoin averages half of The entire industry as market cap I think that a lot of people although they don't realize it I'm think that Bitcoin is is dirty or dirt energy Majority of Bitcoin is mined with Hydro, which is already renewable. There. There's a lot of Efforts of mining Bitcoin with natural gas and other forms of solar energy wind and so forth So I think that naturally there's a lot of bad press around mining Bitcoin With Hertz the industry devalues the value of the currency and if you have projects like the Hathor green that incentivize and Validate this these miners to prove to the world That they're doing the right thing that they are using renewable energy that only Validates the thesis of Bitcoin being this decentralized form of Improving Access to to financial freedom to the wider audience in the world. So so I think it's a it's a very clever and elegant solution To minimize this bad PR We're getting that not necessarily has has been proven wrong in the global media Sure for sure. I think a lot of that Bad press coverage comes specifically for the reason that a lot of people don't see the value of Bitcoin and therefore They just see the energy consumption of it We have an interesting question from the audience now So if our mining Greeks are not yet set up, can we still participate in the other green project? That's for you, yeah Yeah, sure. I'll also talk a bit more about the process. So So far, it's pretty straightforward. You can go to our website after that green And check out the project and also there is an application form that you can fill out So a pretty straightforward application process as it says is kind of like a pilot for us We're also gonna learn a lot about it and improve the This project in the next few months. So this is This is the the way that miners can apply and to answer the other questions You definitely can apply as as soon as your mine rigs are set up, you know We envision to have the first batch of applications open until July But if you're gonna be mining and you do use renewable energies, you can just get in touch with us and We'll make sure that you are properly rewarded because in the end that that's what we want, right? So even though we're kind of expecting to close applications in July You can you can get in touch with us and we'll make sure to to include you in the program Mm-hmm Yeah, that was actually going to be my next question. So exactly like how people could could apply to this program Yeah, it's it's it's pretty straightforward, you know, just a simple form on the website In the future as we learn from this first experience, so we might improve it change it a bit Depending on the number of locations. We need to might need to make things more automated, but Right now it's just a simple form. They should have to fill out. We will be also Getting somehow from our friends in actual to do some of the processing and well, yeah pretty straightforward Yeah Interesting what yon is doing because just wanted to point this out We've been looking at investing in green Bitcoin mining for a long time. We've got a few products in the pipeline It is one of the major challenges in this industry is the methodology behind Validating a green or renewable Or or Bitcoin that was mined with renewable energy So so that's one of the reasons we're very interested as an investment firm in the Hathor green project because of the Methodology that they're putting together Mm-hmm So we have another question from the audience Al Milan is new in the conversation. She's asking. What is that or green? Have I missed something? So maybe Yon can just in a nutshell resume. What other green is about just some up. Yeah Sure, let's just recap a bit just this initiative from the Hathor network to incentivize Miners who are using green renewable energy For mining Hathor and also, you know, since we use merge mining, they're gonna likely be also mining Bitcoin or other coins So any miners who use renewables, they can apply to the program. We're gonna validate their application and if they are using renewable energy sources They're gonna get an extra reward and in a CR every month Kind of a trying to incentivize a good behavior in the mining industry Mm-hmm Thanks, Ian. So yeah, if anyone in the chat is actually a miner can just check out Hathor's website and see how this initiative works and If you care about making your mining sources Cleaner that could be a solution So, yeah, the website is happy that green, right So we have another question from the audience regarding the mining basically Source of energy. So with most of the mining hash power still coming from China how How do we see the transition to the green initiative look like and how long might that take I guess that's more a question For you Alex Sure, I can try to tackle that question. So It's important to understand that Yes, a good portion of Bitcoin is being mined in China Every day that's becoming less and less. There is a current trend of Chinese miners looking for other solutions or other places to mine around the world And then within China if you if you do your research You will understand that the top tier miners are already mining with hydro, right? And that's a lot of the associations that we're now in China in the rainy season There's a good portion of them, which is not the majority that still mines with coal and other forms of non renewable energies but China as a government is is Really coming down on on that kind of use of energy for Bitcoin, which which probably is one of the reasons Why we've been seeing this bad press surrounding Chinese Bitcoin miners If you go around the world and you look at renewable energies, they're very competitive on the pricing You talk about gas you talk about hydro Mixes of renewables they're becoming very very competitive with the kilowatt walk kilowatt hour costs of running a competitive mining rig So if the question is how do we see the transition from green initiatives and how long it might take? I think we're going to see a very a large portion of the Bitcoin network being mined with renewable energies in the next three to four years and and that's one of our key focuses is an investment firm Mm-hmm Cool and that's that's a funny Sorry and what did you say? Yeah, if I could add something yeah, I also think think there's a lot of The mission that has to come also from the market side. So, you know, if people and institutions they They make this a priority and you know, they put a premium on it. It's definitely gonna Make this transition faster So, you know, if we have like a premium on Bitcoin being mined on, you know, renewable energy Definitely, we're gonna see more miners switching to To this energy sources.  So I think there's a lot of the market demand that's gonna push this this position Yeah, and yeah, that's completely right, right? You have like about 50 trillion dollars coming into the ESG market a lot of that is pushed by the Biden administration and That money is looking to allocate in green chains That money is looking to allocate to miners that can offset their carbon emissions It's just a demand and supply condition of the current market Okay, so now we have another question from the audience which is regarding the token that is available on Formining on ATOR network. So are the tokens available for purchase? Ask the source Maybe Yeah, sure. We are available now multiple exchanges calling Assyndex coin metro Q3 I also see there are some some questions about extra listings, of course This is something that we're always looking for but can't comment a lot on it. Okay, cool So now I think that it's time to welcome another guest to the conversation Hi, Daniel, how are you? good So for those who don't know this is Daniel Huang a representative of F2 pool and steakfish mining pool service provider Who is going to give us some perspective from the point of view of mining pool service provider how? The system offered by Hathor can actually be implemented So Daniel as far as I understand the the mining pool You work for is the first one that actually Implement the other green initiative. Is it correct? Yeah, I believe so and I guess yon can confirm that as well Yeah, that's correct. We will be working with after polls to get more information and validate everything So we can determine the the origin sources and where the miners are located and you know kind of a cross-check a lot of this information to Determine the energy being used Okay, so if I will understand the miners working for your mining pool Daniel are already Providing yon and his company some proof that they are actually using renewable energies I don't believe so yet, but I think that audit process should be Be rolling out with with the Hathor team Yeah, I said we are starting the applications today So any miner can go to our website have to that green and start this process And then we're gonna be working with F2 pool to get more insights into it kind of a validate the application that cross-check it with Let's say most both sources of information to make sure we can kind of You know be sure that the the miner is actually you know where he is and using the the energy sources He claims so yeah, this process is gonna be starting today And we are happy to have the support from F2 pool to help us I Do want to say that it is completely Voluntary on behalf of the miners and mining mining farms Who do elect to kind of prove their? Renewable energy sourcing Yeah, actually, I'm I'm very curious to know your perspective Daniel like how do How do miners that are working for your mining pools? View this initiative that launched by Ian so what what's your thoughts on what's your thoughts on this system of incentives? Yeah, I I can't speak for miners or mining farms and and just just to quickly clarify like the miners and mining farms don't work for us They're just clients of ours as F2 pool is a a service provider that just kind of provides Hash rate aggregation to find blocks together with with the miners, but I think in general the the value of sort of The ethos that Hathor has proposed with their Hathor green program is quite important In in incentivizing this type of good behavior where good behavior is The reliance and and perhaps even transition or switch to to renewable energy I think a good and that analogy is kind of how we've seen the Bitcoin networks and it's and right the the values and the properties of decentralized consensus be secured by Miners and node operators, right? It's it's essentially a side effect that Of the the main main motivator that miners have for profit And so in this case since Hathor green is providing Incentivization for miners, right? That's additional additional profit in their pockets to to go about perhaps a testing that they are using renewable energy and if the if the Profit is is high enough that you know, there may be potential switching from Alternate non renewable energy sources to renewable energy sources and that I think is in that a good net benefit and and I think that At least from the perspective of F2 pool and and other blockchain infrastructure Sir service providers Right, that's something that we can we can back, right? It's a win-win scenario where right everyone Kind of eats and then the outcomes are are positive in terms of the Climate stewardship and ESG goals and motivations. So Yeah, I think that that's very important to achieve as a goal and I see that our audience is very excited about this topic We have a lot of involvement a lot of questions Next question is the following We have a quest very interesting question here So is after green for large mining companies or is it also for let's say an individual whose mining but can prove It run off of solar panels. They have installed on their house Yeah, definitely. I mean It's I mean for us as long as you're using green energy You can you are eligible for for disinitiative. So It's it's really nice to see you have individuals who are mining and especially using green energy on their house. So, yeah, definitely Hmm. Okay, cool. So you don't need to be Plugged into one of these large pools to participate. That's That's great So now I would like to ask you, uh, I would like to ask Alex, uh question regarding The usage of renewable energies for mining bitcoin a lot of critics say That one negative aspect of renewable energies is that is not as constant as Non renewables and that is a major point why it's so difficult to convince miners to switch to renewables because They cannot keep for example Mining rigs that work on solar power Switched on all day long because there is no solar power available all day long. So How do you see this problematic? Alex, that's a very good question Giovanni because for example, we We're creating a fund to invest in Bitcoins that are mined Via renewable energy or that are offset By carbon credits, right and we're rolling that out in the next couple of months So we've been looking very closely to that and that's one of the reasons why we're very excited With the hathor green project But one thing is important to note, right That that is part of the back press that it's being generated and it's part about the the noise that it's being generated You're right and the general press is right to point out that if you're running your bitcoin farm only on solar Solar naturally or on average has a 20 percent efficiency So if you have 100 megawatts of solar power You're going to get about 20 megawatts on average via the via the course of time Right, but what people forget about is that other forms of renewable energy Are not in that category of a 20 percent Efficiency rate one of them, which is the major source of mining bitcoin is hydro Another one that has very efficiency very high efficiency rates Is natural gas? so Yes, you can do a mix you can you can mine with with solar you can mine with wind And if you can and if you can baseline that with other renewable energy sources That are more constant at their production rate such as natural gas or hydro You will be able to achieve 100 capacity or 100 output Of of your energy input over the course of time So so just wanted to point out that there there's a lot of negative press in the space And that's why it's important for the audience and for esg investors To investigate research and and do their own due diligence to understand That mining cryptocurrencies via renewable energy is a very viable solution And and I agree with yan. I think it's a solution that deserves a premium Yeah, for sure. That's actually the information that we are trying to To convey to our audience so We have a question from the audience about this premium. So how how do you structure that premium? Would it be carbon credits? That's uh, that's a question for for you yan about how this premium is going to be structured Uh, in our case what we're going to do is, uh, whatever Uh, you uh, you mine on on our network by using renewable energies You're going to get a percentage extra at the end of each month. So In the beginning we're going to start with 10. So let's say if mine 10 000 coins a month In the end of the month, we're going to Reward you with an extra 10. So a thousand coins in that sense So, uh, but I think uh in the premium also in the sense that we're talking about bitcoin and also professor Alex was talking about the thing. It's kind of the market forces, right? The markets and to say how much extra people are gonna Are gonna pay for for a Green bitcoin that's called mm-hmm Thanks And uh, now we have another question which is uh more related to the partnership between athor and The f2 pool. So maybe that's something that uh daniel can can answer So what is the nature of the partnership between your two guys? Yeah, a partnership collaboration. I think um, we're we're definitely excited to support Any initiatives that it is promoting this sort of climate stewardship? So hathor hathor has already you know for some time been providing merge mining for For f2 pool. So our miners at my bitcoin Do you get merge mining rewards through hathor tokens? But also in addition to this hathor green program You you'll get the additional bonus rewards as well. So It's definitely we we right so f2 pool And steakfish has has been part of like the blockchain infrastructure Carbon working group that has been investigating and designing better solutions to climate stewardship And so right it's it's just our support. I think the the method by which this type of Switch to renewables or reliance of renewables or Or benefit from renewables is is the right approach. So Okay Now Omar s y is asking what are the benefits of the hathor network for and better than other Chain besides the aspect of using green energy UBD, where do you see the price? Um, I guess the main point here is what's the benefit of hathor network? Besides the aspect of using green energy. So what are the other strong point of the network? Yeah Yeah, sure. I mean, uh, I believe we do have an architecture that enables us to scale Uh on layer one Level more than the traditional blockchains in the space. That's kind of how we started And also one of the main aspects that we're looking to achieve Is making it a easy to use blockchain. So you don't need to be a specialist Anyone that knows a bit of coding can can use us There's no security. There's no gas fees. We have fast and free transactions So this is this is for us the way we envision that we're gonna make Blockchain technology is available to the broader public and companies So, uh, it's it's easy to use. I mean a lot of A lot of our advisors and and people use the analogy of Doing what like WordPress did for for the web, you know, uh, it enabled a larger Amount of people to come into and create their own websites and you know, just experience and have a lot online presence Uh, we cannot we also want to do the same thing. We uh, want to be easy to use at the level that Most companies and people can create their own, uh, blockchain based projects Mm-hmm Yeah, and actually I have a question now regarding the At or green initiative because this is of course a very admirable initiative that has a very admirable goal But what I was wondering is the scalability of these initiatives. So Can this at or green model be kind of Used as imitated or taken as a model by other blockchains In order to maximize its impact on this environmental problem of bitcoin And maybe young can can give you you can give us your thought about this scalability of the initiative Yeah, I mean, I sure hope so as I said, this is kind of like a pilot program We're gonna learn a lot from it improve it so And I think there's kind of a inspiration Pain that you said is important. So I do hope that we see other other projects also adopting more This these initiatives and I think that depends a lot on the market response to it So if we do get a lot of miners interested and then people see there's value in it Definitely, we're going to see more more of this In this space Mm-hmm Alex, what's what are your thoughts about the scalability of this Merged mining solution that author is providing to tackle the bitcoins environmental problem Do you see it? Yeah For sure, and I think it's an add-on right So if you look at bitcoin over the recent years It went from its original purpose of being a peer-to-peer payment system to being a store of value and There's a lot of discussions of like how bitcoin Has become this very innovative approach on how you can store you Your your inputs of energy or or your investments and energy right because like michael sailor says if if I generate 100 megawatts Of energy via my very expensive capex hydro plant and I don't utilize that 100 megawatts It's gone right. There is no way for me to get it back But if you can store the value of it in a bitcoin That has become one of the greatest innovations in the energy space in the last couple of years But as we all know bitcoin Is not a protocol that it's suited for high transaction output You can't you can't compare visa and mastercard and amax And all these other forms of transaction cashless payments with bitcoin is just just not there right So we need solutions like hathor that are going to provide that additional layer to make very fast Troop with transactions And and being it on a green chain on a chain that requires less energy I think it's a benefit for both sides of the industry Not only for the people that are bitcoin maximists and want to use bitcoin as the store of value But also as users who want to use the bitcoin network for daily transactions of payments and cash transactions smart contracts and other innovative Forms of a blockchain technology So I think it's an add-on in a good pair Okay, thanks alex So now I would like to ask I would like to to ask if it's if there is any risk Involved in this merged mining practice, maybe daniel since he's the representative of mining pool provider Can answer this question then maybe yan can also tell us what's in his view. Is there any risk? involved in this practice Maybe if you could clarify where where risk on whose behalf Because as far as I heard There is a small there is some sort of risk when you assume things the mine to separate coins because there is Higher risk of 51 percent attacks since the miners don't have to I mean Miners are somehow Facilitated in a possible 51 percent attack on on on on the network So, yeah, I think with with maybe Maybe the answer isn't much simpler than we we might expect but right Obviously a network would would benefit from having its own set of uh Node operators and miners that doesn't have to be merge merge mine. So It's it's probably just as simple as that Hmm Jan, uh, have you uh, do you have any thoughts on that because I read that part on your on your website? Uh, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, uh, since the uh, the miners are getting the uh, The rewards extra at the same time as they're mining bitcoin. Uh, definitely there are some incentives You know and uh less penalties for them. Let's say let's put it like that Uh, but I mean from from our perspective the goal is always increasing the hash rates having been distributed um So, uh, the more miners we get the the harder it's going to become for for people to do this kind of attack and I mean so far Even on larger uh merge mine merge mine coins We haven't seen any kind of behavior like that from the miners, especially uh, when we partner with institutions such as after pool We see that this risk increases a lot because they would be the ones that have to uh, to conduct this sort of attack in the sense of Trying to do a 51 percent. So I think that the the risk is greatly reduced By doing this kind of a high level partnerships and you know having good relationships with with the mine Okay, uh now I have other questions from the audience. So, um This is about the latest news that we we hear a couple of days ago So with El Salvador's news that came out yesterday about mining using geothermal energy to mine bitcoin Have you guys thought about approaching them about merged mining hatter? Definitely, it's uh, it's a good idea. You know, uh We're always looking for more miners. Uh But in the end it's it's a decision that the miners have to have to take but uh, yeah The more miners that we have as I just said the better for for the network and the security So, uh, we are going to try and talk to uh, you know, all miners possible and And get them to uh to also merge mine hatter Okay, cool. So we have uh, we have a lot of questions from the audience I'm very I'm very pleased to see so much participation guys. Don't hesitate to Uh to ask some more questions. We have some more time to ask them. So This is uh, this is something about the structure the organization of hatter. So Omar s y is asking how Are you planning to decentralize the hatter network from other labs? If that's sure Yeah, sure. I mean like uh, as of today the network is 100 percent, uh open and decentralized. So Uh for us, we always love the bitcoin philosophy that anyone can run a note and validate the transactions You know, this is also something important that The miners can can do and try and reverse transactions But as long as kind of you have like your own phone, no that's following the rules You could not Not follow what the miners Are trying to do So for us having this Uh decentralization of being able To run a phone note yourself, you know, I could run a phone note anyone. You don't need specialized hardware Uh, this in itself is a regular centralized network. Uh, obviously, I understand that at this moment Uh hatter labs is the main developer of the protocol and uh has a large impact on the decisions But this is something that gradually, uh, we're looking forward to more companies building on it and also contributing to the protocol So our code is on github. It's open source. Anyone can create a request there The team is going to analyze it And the more companies doing it the better, you know, I'd love to see like five 10 20 companies developing products Solutions and also contributing to the to the protocol development, you know, it's I think it's kind of our dream The moment that we actually don't need the hatter labs to be kind of the the steward of of the Of the protocol to have it kind of Completely decentralized as as it happens with Bitcoin Yeah, I think that a lot of our viewers are looking forward for to a version um to a world where We have this decentralized Open source protocols that are also environmentally friendly Uh, so that's that's a great goal to have But now I would like to ask you Um, we saw not long ago that I'm a mining initiative was launched by Elon Musk and Michael sailor It's an initiative aimed at making bitcoin more environmentally friendly and it was called it's called the bitcoin mining council I was curious to know if you have any plans Or you have yeah, if you have any plans to kind of collaborate with this initiative Uh, I think any initiative in this area is very good. Um In regards to collaboration, I don't know maybe in the future Being very honest in the short term I'm not sure, but it would be a good thing. You know, it's not like we're close to it and or we have any objections, but Maybe it's gonna happen. I don't know Maybe alex can give us a couple of uh of his views on this initiative If he thinks that is something that can be somehow Compatible with uh with what uh ian is trying to accomplish Yeah, I think that In general, there It's driven by market demands, right and market dynamics Like I was mentioning, we're projected to see like a 10 fold increase on esg investments in the next three to five years And obviously elan musk micro sailor And some of the other whales in the space are looking to capture that And not only to capture that but to try to solve Our global climate change problem is a win-win scenario for everyone Not only in the blockchain industry, but just in the planet So we I I foresee that we're going to see more and more initiatives Like the bitcoin mining council And I welcome projects like yan's projects and other projects out there to join forces and and try to Come together into innovative solutions that address those two key points, right One is the demand for cleaner energy solutions And the other one is how do we supply that demand and projects like hathor green are trying to solve that supply question, so My forecast is that we're going to continue to see a growth in efforts coming from Investors and and other organizations like the bitcoin mining council and most likely we're going to see a growth And and solutions like hathor green Okay, great. So I think that's now we can start wrapping things up We we have one more we can ask one more question from the audience and then some final remarks so We have emperor me tensify who is asking what are your q2 2021 targets and are you on track to accomplish them? yen sure, um I have to remember now all the uh what we had on the roadmap for for q2 I believe as I said before and then the conflicts are our the most awaited feature That we are working on then right now um Also, as I mentioned before we decided to fast-track a bit the nft features uh in supports because it's just such a I saw after topic or for this so it was in q3 or q4. I'm not sure but We already have some initiatives in this area popping up um, also if I'm mistaken the Explorer redesign that we had It's already underway starting with extra functionality I'd say that a new redesigning the ui it's going to take a bit longer But we're already adding new features and improving the service um and Those are the the main ones. Well, I also on the business side partnerships with Consultancies and software houses that could be what I have from that work. It's it's in track. We're ready in touch with with several of them Yeah, I believe these are The main ones that I can remember in the top of my head Awesome will be closely Monitoring the progress of your project throughout this year. So now I would like to Give you the opportunity to make some final remarks if you think The audience needs to know something more maybe start starting from daniel if you want to make some final remarks Yeah, I I just want to say that Like the fact that hathor is is promoting and is at the network level supporting esg goals I think is wonderful. And I think that's why we at f2pull definitely wanted to share and support this this initiative Okay, alex Some final thoughts. Yeah, sure to to add to daniel's point as a firm We're looking very closely like I mentioned to opportunities to share with our investors Funds and other investment vehicles that invest And and opportunities like hathor grain and another bitcoin Investment vehicles that mitigate the footprint of carbon emissions So we're very glad to continue Partnering and supporting hathor grain And this effort because like I mentioned, I think it's a win-win not only for the blockchain industry, but for humanity in general great Yan, do you want to add something else? Yeah, I just want to say that well first. Thank you alex daniel and you for for hosting us But also that's a really do you hope that this project Well, not only is successful in the sense that we do get a lot of miners applying and Hopefully someday we can have, you know 100 percent of ACR mining based on renewable energies But also this could kind of spark some some sort of inspiration in other projects who also adopt Some initiatives like this Definitely, there's demand as professor alex said It's something that it's going to benefit everyone. So hopefully this can be kind of an inspiration for for more projects you can like this Yeah, I actually really hope that a lot of other projects will follow your example because this is a very important Target to achieve getting bitcoin completely on renewables So for those who are watching Don't forget to check out the website of hathor green which is green dot hathor dot network And check out the very interesting system of any of incentives That yan has prepared for incentivizing miners to Use your renewable energies So thanks a lot for watching everyone. It was a great conversation. I'm Giovanni your host


Okay, we are now live Veben, do you want to get it started or I want us to just introduce the First if you can introduce yourself and then we can continue and in the last weekend. Yeah, and I'll just give a quick quick overview of the project and the idea concept behind it and then I'll let everyone introduce Let everyone here introduce themselves. So the idea behind the project is that Telecom roaming agreements are digital Sorry legal agreements usually they are bilateral agreements and Usually it's it's lots of Legal terms, but there's also a technical side of it as well a commercial and And the concept here is we are trying to tackle This at the early stage of building the telecom roaming agreements, which is at the stage of drafting and negotiation and We came across the concept from other From other domains actually in financial markets. There is this Over the counter derivatives agreements, which is look to us something similar And there's already something similar in the financial market that that hand is something In the domain of how to draft and negotiate a kind of master agreement so the concept is to use both natural language processing and DLT In this case, it's high religious fabric the natural language processing is to analyze the text of different legal agreement documents and try to classify the text into Different different parts and Santiago will will go through this and then the the DLT is to manage the automation Bees and ensure the trust and the auditing and the traceability Myself is my self is Ahmad Sawyer. I work in blockchain Industry for the last three to four years. I build blockchain solutions and I ask it both Nurdine and Muhammad to join me because they they can bring the other The other side of the project, which is the natural language processing, which is their their specialty and Santiago is the mentee in this in this mentorship project And he was the one Performing all this this work while we provided him with guidance throughout the project So I leave it to Nurdine and Muhammad and then leave Santiago as the last one since he's going to be doing the entire presentation so Nurdine Thank you, Ahmed. Hello everyone and welcome to this meeting. My name is Nurdine Sadawi. I'm from Libya based in London, UK I'm a senior lecturer at the University of London and instructor with O'Reilly and Pearson I Specialized in machine deep learning and in those areas. So that's why I was invited to co-supervised this project I'd like to thank Ahmed and Hyperledger and Direct Foundation for facilitating this. It's been a really good project Santiago has done a Fantastic job as he will present to us today I'm grateful also to Muhammad for his contribution. It's been a really nice and useful project. We've learned a lot along the way And yeah, thanks everyone again for joining us over to you Muhammad Hi everyone, this is Muhammad El-Sharif. I'm a software engineer at Qatar Center for Artificial Intelligence Like I'm like mainly work in applied machine learning and deep learning under like spectrum of applications And I'm involved in many projects with local and international entities Like we have like collaboration projects with Boeing in predictive maintenance in detecting small objects And also we have a collaboration project with MIT about urban computing and with Qatar Airways in local entities So like yeah, so that's why Ahmed he like Asked me to join this project like because I'm like kind of working in machine learning and deep learning, you know During my career for the past like five years So thank you Ahmed and it's over to you Santiago Okay. Thank you very much Let's start it. Okay. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening for everyone. My name is Santiago I recently finished my PhD I am currently working in data analysis and information management group Of faith that is a research center in basket country that is part of the University of Nevada First of all, I would like to send to the special telecom group for the invitation to the present the war the use of an LTV DLT to enable the digitalization of telecom running agreement as part of the hyper legend mentorship 2021 project Additionally, I would like to to to well to to introduce to to to know to my to my mentors projects, Ahmed, Norebin and Mohammed Who were present in the call and talk a bit Before me so you can see the minted project presentation on the link place it you know in the slide footer And now I will start with one overview of their running agreement concept Running agreement operation ensures business continuity on the victim service Access to the end customer across various technologies stack including for instance new technologies like 5G IOT technologies and IOT The running agreement address the technical and commercial components necessary to enable the service to a running customer so that it constitute an essential part of the business Managing issues such as you know the interoperational search Thinking that running agreement are mainly you know a bilateral agreement with an established template provided by Yissi main Therefore, conducting a dynamic and transparent running agreement drafting process ensure advantage for telco companies in terms for instance of monetization The necessity of the project comes from problems detected in the running agreement drafting process, which includes first of all, the running agreement negotiation is manual, slow and untrace worthy And second is that the Yissi main approach for the wholesale running initiative is like a generalist in terms of negotiation and drafting of the running agreement so it's lacks of standardization So there is a necessity to establish a framework that provide capabilities such as you know a fine-grained methodology that digitalize the running agreement drafting process And in addition the promotion of a transparent negotiation process between two mobiles networks operator And in addition to ensure trustability in the running agreement drafting process In this way blockchain integrated with other technologies such as natural language processing can cover these capabilities You know an overview of the project can be found in the first medium article that we published as part of our project and the URL is included in the in the footer of this slide For this reason the two main project objectives are first of all to build a library that will capture the different variations and variables that construct a telecom running agreement And in addition to build a proof of concept based on a set of smart contracts that will automate the process of drafting and negotiation In general terms we can think in this project that looks very early phases of the running agreement and specifically the drafting and negotiation process Our solution can facilitate the process of drafting and agreement and turning into digital format can help in establish a route of truth of the agreement For this reason we first collect a few agreements including you know the GCMA template and build a simple NLP model to extract the main feature of the text that we classify as standard class variables, variation and custom text This model then is used in the drafting of any agreement to build each article where the action of user are managed through the same code in terms of article proposal, article change until the entire agreement is finalized At background level we want to analyze on the one hand the NLP technology and the Amazon Comprehension tool, but a quick concept In this term natural language processing is you know it's a soup field, it's a soup field sorry, of linguists and computer science and artificial intelligence Concern with the interaction between computer and human language At the same time you know Amazon Comprehension is a natural language processing service, it's like a tool that uses machine learning to uncover variables inside and connection in text To understand what are variables, variation and standard class sorry and custom text, a snapshot of two documents are used On the left side you can see the 8-8-12 GCMA template and on the right side you can see one sample of the mobile network operator proxies running agreement In this way a standard class implies to leave an article or sub-article as found in the template Variables represent the value of certain attributes that are found in a certain text such as for instance dates, name of entities, amounts and others In addition, variation represents changing variables for instance you know mobile networks operator, dates, penalty, currency and so on Concerning the original text, I mean the GCMA template in the article or sub-article Finally, customized text introduce completely new you know article of sub-article that respond to particular interests The reference architectures includes not only participant entity but also the functionalities that they perform throughout the application lifecycle First the entities participant in the running agreement are composed by you know two mobile network operators and the GCMA as administrator There are functions that they perform in common such as you know the maintenance of the hyper-layer fabric network and participation in the network consensus But particularly mobile network operators negotiate and draft the running agreement among themselves Maintaining the privacy of the information and using the NLB engine to create a template which will be used as part of the drafting process In addition, the GCMA is in charge of the registration of the mobile network operator, the network monitor, the auditing, the accountability of the running agreement conducting between the two mobile network operators The application lifecycle is composed by four stages The first one is enabled the running agreement principle, the second one is the registration of both the mobile network operator and the running agreement In addition, the third stage is the running agreement drafting process and finally is the phase of to reach the agreement The third phase starts when two mobile network operators enable the running agreement principle Throw out you know a document that could be shared with the GCMA as a central authority At this point GCMA is able to create the running agreement output template using the NLB engine execution The second phase is that one is produced when the GCMA loads the running agreement output template to the platform to manage the running agreement It must enable the mobile network operator who will be able to register themselves on the hyper-layer file instruction platform before starting the negotiation and drafting of the running agreement The third stage contains the running agreement drafting process, although in this image, three processes are represented Any combination that includes, for instance, an article, accept article, propose change in the article and forget the article can be performed Finally, the fourth stage consists of the proposal to reach an agreement as well as the acceptance of the running agreement by two mobile network operators The two main components of the project are first of all the NLB engine and the second one the shame code, which are discussed below The overall architecture of the NLB engine is built over a doctor infrastructure, establishing as input the running agreement draft as well as the GCMA template The processing layer is a logic identified as the NLB engine, which includes as output the classification of the article in standard class, in variation, in customised text and variables A very important component in the NLB engine is the Amazon Comprehensive Service This service, as we mentioned, used machine learning to uncover variables inside and connection in text Throughout Amazon Comprehensive Tool, running agreement text is processive to extract, for instance, key phrases, entities, sentiments for further analysis Details of the NLB engine can be found in the second immediate article published as part of this project And again, the URL is included in the footer of the presentation of this slide, sorry This image of this slide illustrates the part of the set of methods that can make up the shame code lifecycle The invocation of this method established the transition between the different states of the shame code This transition takes place at three application levels, the first one is the running agreement level, the second one is the articles level, and the third one is that article level Details of the shame code design can be found in the third immediate article published as part of this project and the URL is included in the in the footer To illustrate the operation of the shame code, the following figure or slide show the sequence given of the proposed agreement initiation method Thus, you know, the proxy module enable the interaction with other modules The identity modules allow verifying the Mobile Networks Operator Identity The organization module verify whether the Mobile Network Operator exceeds and has been previously registered The agreement modules perform the following functionalities First, the generation of unique identifier for the list of articles, second one the generation of another unique identifier for the running agreement The third one is that the status of the running agreement negotiation is set as a started running agreement The status of the article negotiation is set at meet And the started running agreement event is submitted Again, detail of the shame code implementation can be found in the fourth immediate article published as part of the project Again, the URL is included in the footer of this slide The product implementation is based on a set of microservices using, you know, using vector infrastructure It should be noted how this email is the administrator and the maintainer of a set of services including, you know, the front-end, NLBNG, the Kibana, Grafana, Prometheus and Swagger In addition, the two Mobile Networks Operator include the functionalities to maintain and monitoring the ledger One of the most remarkable points of this project is, you know, if the integration with other open source projects that belong to the hyperlayer mentoring or mentorship program Specifically, the project analyzing hyperlayer-fabric ledger transaction and logs using elastic search and Kibana We include this project as part of, you know, of our project And in the demo it's possible to see how this integration, sorry Now it's time to have a demo time First one, you can see the transaction committed into the ledger once the shame code is installed and instantiated The attempt to access for the user failed because GSMAs need to register it before Now GSMAs register admins a user of the Mobile Networks Operator The user one now is able to register, for instance, one Mobile Network Operator Now you can see how the transaction is committed into the ledger Again, the user two is able to register the second Mobile Network Operator Again, when the information is provided, now can be verified how the transaction is committed into the ledger Now the roaming agreement, let me stop here the video As you can see here, you know, the Mobile Network Operator number two proposed a roaming agreement registration As you can see here, this thing represents the roaming agreement output template that was provided by the NLD engine As you can see here, the roaming agreement is proposed And here you can see how the pipeline created can show the roaming agreement is available between the two Mobile Networks Operator Now, the other user in this case, the user one with the Mobile Network Operator one need to confirm the roaming agreement Again, the transaction is committed into the ledger And now this Mobile Network Operator is able to propose an article based again on the roaming agreement output template from the NLD engine Here, as you can see a standard clause is defined, variables are introduced and in addition, variations are defined Again, transaction is committed into the ledger And now as you can see, as you can see here, you know, the article is added into the pipeline One important thing here is that the Mobile Network Operator that propose the change cannot be able to accept it So now the second Mobile Network Operator is able to, for instance, to propose a new changes Now the variables are changing But accept the same variations Okay, here it should be possible to see that how the standard is updated And now the Mobile Network Operator number one is able to accept the proposition Again, the transaction is committed into the ledger And then new articles are added into the pipeline This is a new article And another article should be added into the pipeline But again, one important thing The Mobile Network Operator number one cannot accept its own changes So Mobile Network Operator two, accept the proposed change Here, transaction committed into the ledger The next article is accepted The status change And now this Mobile Network Operator is able to propose To propose that the roaming arrival be accepted Just three articles into the pipeline, in this case, is enough And now the Mobile Network Operator number one can accept the proposal As part of the project, the developers include a series of medium articles Explaining the main project vision, the main concept, and the proposal design approach The NLP model that extracts the main feature of the telecom agreement Agreement template as a set of variables and variation In addition, a chain code that automates and map the business process of the agreement, drafting, and negotiation In addition, the architectural design document of the system Also, we create a simple user interface as a group of concepts That will show the steps of the agreement drafting And finally, we publish an academic conference paper with the main finding of the project For the future works, we have included to build a model based on one open source library Such as Spacy, because right now we are using the Amazon conference tool In addition, to create a drafting library in JavaScript and publish it as MPM package We also plan to ensure information privacy between two mobile networks Operator through the Prevail Data Collection In addition, we want to contextualize the traceability of the robbing agreement negotiation Between two mobile networks operator through the visualization tool In addition, the definition and establishment of an audit and accountability layer for the system Another future work is the full API for monitoring based on Prometheus and Rafa And the last one needs to submit a manuscript to the IEEE International Conference on Blockchain in 2022 At this point, I want to thank my mentors, the knowledge and still gain around this project Thank you very much Thank you Santiago, thanks a lot It was really an honor to work with you during this project Me and I think even my colleagues, Mohamed and Nurdin, we learned a lot from you through this project And the most important thing, we also got this from a concept written in one Bezier into an actual proof of concept During the mentorship project, which was really good And also it's worth noting that when we developed this, we looked at what GSMA is trying to achieve At GSMA, they have their BWR initiative, which they are trying to build a framework for telecom roaming agreements using blockchain But they are focusing more into the actionable pieces of the telecom roaming agreement in terms of settlement dispute resolution And the good thing is that what we found is that our work can be complementary to theirs So we come at the very early stage where we try to digitize the agreement text and extract it into those features through the NLB model And then use the chain code to build the actual digital version of the roaming agreement and make it actionable The text phases in terms of settlement, dispute resolution can benefit from having this digitized version of the roaming agreement text Which I think that's the point where Santiago mentioned that right now it's more of a generalist approach so it's like relying on BDF files exchanged or something like that where you add digital signature But it's not like at a very granular level where you can identify exactly, this is the amount of the credits used or this is the operator name or this is the date of start of agreement or whatever So any of those variables or the different variations used so just wanted to put that into the context and I think also it's good to mention that next week we are meeting with GSMA to try to find out some synergy between what we've worked on and the BWR group at the GSMA And see if how we can maybe contribute with our work that Santiago built into the GSMA BWR initiative so yeah Thanks for sharing everything and I want to know like is it like open source like because it's a part of I think Hyperledger mentorship program or what frame if you can tell us more about this framework like is it you what do you use like is it fabric or some other platform Yeah it's open source all the links to the repos etc are available I think in the different medium articles and yeah it's all based on Hyperledger fabric with the different tools that Santiago highlighted in terms of monitoring tools or other tools We are also that's something maybe I would like to mention to you Vivian and David, we are building a more detailed solution design document, we can share that document with you and maybe we can maybe have it sort of as a solution brief or I don't know what exactly the best name to call it, we're calling it solution design document but maybe we can get some editing from you David and the Hyperledger fabric team and if okay we can we would like to publish it under the Hyperledger umbrella Sure, I mean that would be a good discussion to have it a future telecom call we've done two other solution briefs from the group and talk are talking about other ones yeah we can certainly sort through that and get it published And we have one question in the chat box like thank you sir, could you share with us your API monitoring tools Yes, yes for sure, maybe I share my email and then I can share all Docker created for monitoring proposal, yeah sure There is a question also from you David Yeah, and the question is, do the wireless carriers have to agree to participate on the Hyperledger platform applications Yes, definitely yes and there's also the role of the GSMA to enable registration of those MNOs into the platform so of course And also because anyhow we are not means as interoperability is not part of this and I for example, let's say if someone some carrier is using Hyperledger or someone is using Ethereum so interoperability is in your vision It's Hyperledger fabric right now on the chain code is deployed differently on Hyperledger fabric so it has to be Hyperledger fabric And the next question is from Anis, is it possible to build a generalized agreement negotiation system on Hyperledger And the second is what is the need to develop a specific system for mobile operators Yeah, I think yeah that could be but in terms I think one of the issues that we faced we we we didn't have anyone who's a legal person in our team And just as I said, we borrowed this concept from financial markets and I know how they built it in financial markets it was legal team that they were analyzing text, not using NLB but People analyzing text and identifying variables variations etc. So to build a generalized agreement that means, for example, SLA agreement or any other types of agreements, it could be done but it would require a more sophisticated model and branching in that model, if it's the best word to use for this. So, yeah, that's my answer to this I don't know if the other guys has any comment on this And also one more like what is the need to develop a specific system for mobile operators like this is one basic question like means why you started to develop a specific system for mobile operator. I don't know what, if, if Anna scan elaborate more, we could maybe understand exactly what's a complementary question to the first part. Basically, if we can build a generalized negotiation agreement agreement negotiation system on hyper ledger fabric that can be working dropped in like the template of the contract and then the negotiation process in terms of as presented in this scenario, each party kind of suggests changes and then the process moves on and everybody agrees and then have at the final stage you have a contract that everybody agrees on. To me that sounds like the process that can be applied to any type of or any type of contract like that. Yeah, I totally agree that it could be a generalized approach, but what's the need to develop is that, as I said, there could be different types of legal agreements for mobile operators. And it is one thing SLAs is another thing and definitely there are others. One of the objectives was of this project that we actually didn't, didn't complete was to build a library a package. We targeted JavaScript, like an NBM package that will enable transforming that NLB model into a library that will allow easily to pick article two, and then once you pick article two, that will populate what are the variables what are the different variations. And this is actually was done by Santiago but not as a library but he coded that into the front end. So our work maybe is to extract that into a library. So if we would like to build that generalized model, what will happen, you will take different different SLA agreements, you will take different roaming agreements with and then you will build an NLB model for each one of these and then build some packages that once you select what type of agreement it will select it will. It will grab the specific model for that type of agreement and then you start executing the next steps of selecting an article, specifying what are the values for each variable, which variations you would like to include do you want to include some custom text, things like that so Yeah, I mean, I see huge potential like if such a model can be generalized and you can expand your customer base and like in healthcare, like real estate, people like Exactly. A lot of people can benefit from like the basically hyper leather, the immutability of the contract and the whole process is transparent. This just opens up a lot of potential. Yeah, in that case, I totally agree. So that would be like the chain code will be the most generalized system here that will handle just the process of adding articles specifying the ins and outs of each article and then handle the negotiation of the release which is if you accept it if you propose change if you want to delete it, reject it, whatever. But again, it would have to start with building the different models for the different use cases that you would like this system to handle so without that model, you don't know how the text is interpreted because definitely there are specific things that you can capture maybe in roaming agreements but one if you go to a real state brokering agreement that would be maybe different kind of variables and text that you need to analyze to come up with the exact model. And the other thing is which we mentioned already that we borrowed the concept from another industry so definitely a generalized model can be built and that is just you need to do that batch processing at the beginning by building your NLP model. So if you built that generalized chain code, then you would start every now and then to go into a specific domain, analyze lots of legal text and come up with the model that can be used Fair to say is that telecom roaming agreements are not that complicated. So that's what made our life easy. We don't know about other applications. Great. Great. Okay, Jason was to ask some questions. Jason, could you unmute yourself? Yeah, thank you. I've been and thanks a lot in Santiago for the presentations very helpful. So thank you for that. So I know this is a proof of concept project so it's not a production environment but it's a good starting point to carry over to production. So my question is when we move up to production and governance question. So there is a roaming agreement that that comes into existence right in the example in the presentations between orange and telephonica so who would have ownership of this document because it's a roaming agreement between two operators. So that document obviously it's off chain. But do you see that being a repository held by a third party or is it one of the operators or where does that go? One of the things that we are looking at is to look into private data collections. And in that case, that will be something where the roaming agreement is just built inside the chain code actually. And you kind of, let me try to find the best word to describe this. You generate the actual text based on what's inside the chain code and since it's a private data collection so that means it's only the two operators that they have access to this agreement. Okay, so it's a private data repository? Yeah, yeah. Currently it's not there. Currently like GSMA is the authority that handles or manages the entire network and everything is plain accessible to everyone but our concept is to advance this and build it on top of private data collections where data will become only accessible to the two operators that they are. So the roaming agreement would reside in operator one and if operator two needs to access that roaming agreement they have to go into operator one's repository to retrieve it. Yeah, as I said, it's actually coded inside the chain code. So when you define the variables, when you define what are the variations, we do not include the actual text inside the chain code but we include references. So let's say article two, there are three variations, two A, two B, two C and when operator one proposed the article, he included two A and two B and then operator two approved it. So right now, inside the chain code, article two is defined as whatever the standard clause, so standard clause is always there, plus it's identified by two variations, two A, two B. When the other operator would like to construct the agreement, the engine maps, do some indexes into the actual text and generate the BDF for that one. But the main thing here is that variables are identified by their actual values inside the chain code, variations are identified by their indexes, which as I explained right now. The only thing is custom text, custom text is the only thing that's stored as is inside the chain code. Right, so if whenever they want to retrieve the document, they can, they can reference the ledger generate on the clock to generate the document. Okay, got it. Okay. Thank you very much. Thanks guys really great presentation. Thank you for sharing. So, Amit, are you planning to host this PUC code on Hyperledger Labs as well or it's just an individual project that means how you will, what are your next steps on this? Yeah, we would love to do that. Yeah. Honestly, that was something on my side, but I didn't do my job. So, yeah, we would love to do that and probably we can ask for help on how to set up that on the literature. That will be good because in that case this mean this will increase the outreach as well and then because if if Hyperledger Labs can be used by let's say GSMA or other operators as a as a standard or something so that like it will help for other operators to start with something. Yeah, yeah, we can discuss that. I see David putting a link here, but we can discuss offline and see how to. Yeah, feel free to reach out and you may have already taken a look at the process, but it's fairly straightforward. So if you have questions or something, you know, yeah, sure. Hi guys, sorry to just to jump in quickly. I'm sure David and the VPN have spotted already from Santiago Slides that he's actually reused some of the existing components from previous project, which is really good. Yeah, yeah, just the Hyperledger Lab nerdy and just to, but maybe webbing can provide further there but it's like costing this solution or proof of concept there. So allow my point is a little different. What I'm saying is, because we've been mentioned that it's good for outreach we have done actually some of that to prove that the previous work can be quite useful. So Santiago has used already existing stuff and hopefully for this project, it can take different branches. So a couple of suggestions, for example, where we're really good already sorry I forgot names and I think I forgot sorry for the other person's name. So these are quite useful suggestions. Some of the stuff here I must say is basically future work. Okay, so please do bear in mind that this is just a proof of concept project. So it's not really a large scale project. So it can go into different directions. One of them, for example, sorry, it was Jason. Yeah, Jason, John. One of them, one of them could be for example, this project can be the basis or the foundation for another project so somebody can maybe extend it to something else, like for example, interoperability for example between different providers of blockchain technology such as Ethereum and so on. Also, of course, packaging is stuff I'm putting into libraries and reusable modules. That's also really good. Yeah, so this is just one point I wanted to highlight. Also regarding the material and the existing stuff that already is there, we do have already a couple of medium articles written and also a GitHub repository where the code is. So I think Santiago if you're still around then you perhaps can copy and paste the link here and then people can find it really useful. And I also want to add a very important point is like once like GSMA will be involved in this thing. So that's what GSMA is doing with the like with other foundations or other projects is like they are building some reference architectures and reference implementations. So if we can work on that part like as a separate project or something that's what they do in different foundations, for example, CNTT. This is with Linux Foundation Networking and GSMA for what telco cloud should be like in the implementation part. So if we can do something like this that what we can propose to GSMA regarding we are interested in building some reference architecture implementations and models so that it will be like a reference point for other operators as well. That's what GSMA can push into. So Ahmed, that's just a suggestion that you can ask them like if they are interested in. Yeah, let's see. I think they already work with two or three operators and two vendors I think. I think you already hosted Shamit and someone from Cineverse they delivered a presentation to the group in the past few months. Yeah, yeah, we'll discuss that with them and see if they would like maybe to set up a small group that can bring synergies what they are doing and what the group might be able to add. And Santiago already shared one link like those participants who are interested in this blog they can see. Yes, we will. Yeah. Yeah, I share the link of the project. Here is the whole information of the demonstration, the medium articles. I think that is a good entry point to the rest. In this we also included the repository link, the repository URL. So always concentrated in this space. And so Santiago feel free to share that on the group's list. You know not everybody in the group was able to join to the call today so there's over 200 people in the list so if you want to have a conversation there you're certainly welcome to and anybody who is not on the group's list but would like to take part in discussions it's an open list and you're certainly welcome to subscribe. Okay. And the link is shared in the chat as well. Okay, do we have more questions. Anyone. Okay, so thanks Emma then everyone for joining today. And we have bi-weekly calls every Thursday like in second week of Thursday so if you're interested in like delivering more talks or attending sessions please feel free to join these calls. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks everyone. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Take care. Thank you everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you. See you next time.


Extracellular vesicles, EVs, are small particles released by cells into bodily fluids such as blood or urine. They contain important biological information which can be used to diagnose diseases. EVs have been shown to be effective biomarkers for disease diagnosis because they are easy to collect and analyze. This review discusses the various methods for isolating EVs from bodily fluids and the techniques for analyzing them. It also examines the advantages, challenges, and potential applications of EV based in vitro diagnosis. This article was authored by Xu Yisong, Ling Zou, Chen Wang and others.


I'm Rick. What are you eating? Yogurt man Some season finale yogurt Some season finale yogurt that is alive I Culture and I am so excited and sad. It's always sad. It's like it's always exciting Especially if the last episode is a good episode But it's also it's also sad because obviously you don't know how long you're gonna have to wait for another season You don't know who's gonna die especially in this show. You don't know like which of your favorite characters You're never ever gonna see again Because last time we lost, you know, we had the red wedding the last time when we lost a bunch of good main characters And I think we're gonna lose even bigger main characters this time around but This is the season finale of season dose What I Think actually people do show up for the season finale episodes those always have the most views because people just like to see those so Just if you're new I can only use even the season finale five minutes of each episode in our YouTube Reactions, it's a copyright thing. I can only use five minutes of the each of the episodes I can do like part of our reactions without the screen and that doesn't count towards the five minutes But I can only do that if you'd like to see the full uncut version of this episode the finale and the rest of them All of them including season one are on patreon the full uncut hour-long Reactions to each episode so go check those out This one is called What is this one called Rick? I can't see it King of Merzeper. Ah, we should look that up to see what that means Yeah, I Think I think the king of Merzeper Gonna be a one Well, that's that would be the going rate for this season I mean all the all the women are the ones that are taking over basically all the groups As it should be I feel like men have ruled the world for for enough time now I think it's I think I agree it's time for the ladies I think we should give all like every president or every prime minister of every country should just be stand like Step down and let whatever woman take charge. I think the men have had enough centuries of in power Nominate for America Beyonce. Yes the queen bee queen bee. She could be our first queen. Yep Anyways, let's just get into this episode. All right, let's get ready for some death three Two what I said, he's not gonna do it right now one. He shouldn't kill him. I was wrong. No, not you McBool Come it bull. She's supposed to do that.   I'm more gruesome death.  I guess I guess it's a little too graphic. I suppose but This is this he's gonna think all of this is 100% moon is fault We have yet to see trippity lose it.  I do too. It's amazing how the ones that are really powerful are the ones that are the quietest Yes, and they don't lose their cool Yes, I think empathy of a mother.   Yeah, and we'll know because he's left-handed Juniors, juniors, right-handed help it. Yeah juniors, right-handed. No, yeah Junior is right-handed.  I don't think trippity's dead Something's gonna happen. Yeah, it's too quiet now. Yeah, he's not dead. No, he's definitely not dead picked up trippity Yeah, the smart the smart guy And I heard there's a post credit scene so we're obviously gonna stick stick here for that pool Yeah, where isn't it cool? I don't feel like he's just done after after he killed him bro. I think she should probably be sitting in the throne Yeah Nice Hold on. Hold on. I think there's more No, no, no if there's more I turned it off. I turned it completely off. I thought we were done go go to uh one hour three minutes 17 seconds That's where I'm at Okay, here we go. Yep He's not left-handed. Nope. Yep Yeah, that's it. Yeah, okay very nice Nice little touch. That was a nice little touch.  I just I like to watch.  I didn't want to lose that Yeah Selfishly, uh, but yeah, it was it was I actually thought gudu was gonna die. It was I did too. I thought I thought it was gonna be like a He was complacent there and he did what he needed to do And now Hey, like somebody just surprise kills him. Um, yeah, but I they they shocked me. They didn't they didn't kill him yeah That surprise along with a lot of other ones that that make the show sometimes you can predict what happens sometimes you absolutely cannot writing writing writing Everything about storytelling, whether it's in television or it's in cinema always the foundation is first and foremost the writing And the gift of great writing to directors and actors is what propels in my opinion The best of all of the shows and the movies that you'll ever see and this show is incredibly well written Yeah, it is It's insanely good everybody like R. A. B. Damuna Uh, I thought he did a great job. Yeah, that actor did a great job.  I mean, I think it was actually like a a fan favorite like a lot of people like Absolutely. He was he was he was probably their favorite character and I'm sure they're devastated um I would have liked the grandfather's death to be worse Me too. I think if it was an american cinema, it probably would have Uh, if it was Tarantino, it definitely would have been Yeah, because obviously even though this show definitely pushes the boundaries for india cinema and and ot platforms It's still not like they still don't do it the way some people in in american cinema do Like gamethrones, I think gamethrones would have chopped his dick off Absolutely Um, and so they were a little tame there Even though it was it was a nice shot all that blood coming out of his back Yeah, but but this this this again underscores what we already knew and every interview we've ever done with anybody The freedom of artistic expression that they get on the ot platforms compared to the things that they do in cinema that have the censorship Uh, that that add the believability that add the shock factor that add the interest levels Uh, and I think also, um, um Um, Ali did a really good job when we interviewed him of doing of withholding But also, you know, he told us you'll see a different guru in this season Oh, it's a completely different guru and Very very very different guru and what they did is they satisfied some things like the death of even though he didn't have his dick cut off We got the we got the fact that She got to do it. Yeah, exactly and we still have enough to hold us It it's very game of thronish and that you lose characters you love But there's still enough going on that you're like, okay Next season next season. What's gonna happen now? And who are they gonna add? Obviously, they added vj, which is I think a great character to add I think they they added a lot with adding him and obviously him and senior Both of the characters and then that father I think is gonna come a lot more into play now Um, yeah, I do too. I think lala is gonna come a lot more into play as well Like what's gonna happen next season Now there's a lot now obviously you have trippity, but he's he doesn't have power anymore And he very well may get mcbool back in his corner because all of that's been settled He obviously felt that mcbool was right in what he did because it was enacting something off of moona's mistake Yeah, they didn't they didn't they didn't touch on where mcbool is right now No for all we know uh trippity Sent him off the hide to protect him for moona because moona said i'm gonna kill that guy. Um Yeah, I feel like we don't know where he could easily take moona. I feel like I thought I thought mcbool was just gonna pop up and be the one to kill moona Uh, yeah, I think mcbool will definitely be back Yeah, I'm hope I hope so. I hope it's not like the the faceless men that they just kind of forgot about in game of thrones Right There's a lot of bitterness towards the last season of game of thrones This is written originally for the screen. This isn't from other material like a book or or am I wrong? I don't believe so but often I think in in indian cinema and and just indian otd platforms they derive from like, uh hindu folklore or I don't know what it's called or whatever that's all different religious that's all fine Like they didn't from sacred games sacred games. Yeah, that that's all fine and dandy all I care about is The mistake that game of thrones did is they went and finished a show before the man finished writing his books Yeah Big mistake your source material that made the show what it was that you wrote your scripts from You get to the end of your series. You're like, all right. I guess we'll just make up our own ending It's gonna be really sad This should get Emmy nominations this show 100 remember I told you early on I don't know when it was not foreign Emmy nominations This should get no no no no no I absolutely agree and that's where I was saying is early on We were talking about like of the series we've seen do we have a favorite and I told you that at that time I did have one but I wanted to wait a little bit and see what happened I assumed it was this one, right? Yeah, it is this one. Uh, there isn't one of them. I just like I like every single one of them and obviously family man is still, you know We've got another season coming. So it's not really An equal Yeah, you need to you really do need to compare when it's all said and done But right now as it stands, I think the most well written The most fully formed and high artistry cinematically directing music production design Everything this show ought to be One of the leading shows in in television right now, including like at the Emmys This thing should be nominated for multiple Emmys. Yeah, it should be a nominee for acting writing directing And yeah, I agree. This is probably my favorite and I I had paced them out After the first season, I said this is probably the most watchable one. I could I could watch this one over and over again um But then I said Patata Locke probably had the best writing But I think great, but I think with this season this is kind of Because the it's such a different season than it was last season because last season obviously was great writing But it was it was it was a lot about just The they didn't go as in depth as they did this season And I think that they did they did a service to the To the series by and some people because I've seen some critique of it They like some people think it was boring And I don't want I don't understand how you can think that at all I didn't feel bored one little bit, but not one moment if you were just expecting a bunch more violence I'd one I don't like I don't know why you can't enjoy both I don't right, but I think using the game of thrones using the game of thrones analogy It's like there was less sex as the seasons went on that bothered you You didn't like the development of the stories and the new characters Yeah, I I feel like with this season's writing it's I think this and put the lock have the best writing to me. Agreed. Agreed. Um Just in terms of how how well it was written, but this is I mean overall everything This is probably my favorite. I mean sacred games as well. I mean, you can't see sacred games. It wasn't written amazing Yeah, no, that's that's for me where the tug of war has been the whole time in this season was because Up until this point sacred games would be my favorite. Yeah But we also got two seasons of sacred games And now this is the other one We've gotten two seasons of we don't have a second season yet a family man We don't have a second season of batala and also another thing they did because I thought family man was probably the funniest of all the ones We had watched not that far. It's not not that it was a comedy, but I would say for originality originality family man is Is the one that gets the greatest originality, but this one also has added a ton of humor this season Uh in in uh in amazapur, but I think uh Guto Guto Uh, I think she's gonna be the one to rule I think she's good.  It's not not gonna stay alive. Um And it's beena is beena's still in play here. Yeah, and then obviously um that the intelligent one who's I'm sorry. We are terrible at names, but um the guy who took trippity in the end is obviously going to be the adversary now to gudu and and and I can't is it gudu and gulu gulu and gulu Um, yeah, that's gonna be the big right fair and they rarely ever say his name. Yeah um, but they also They're gonna I feel like they'll add a bunch of characters just like they did this season next season Because yeah, if their intention is to take this thing to seven eight or nine seasons They will have to add a lot of new people in season three And it's it's great because every person they've added has been a Has been a great actor. I would love to see v a vj. Raz. Come on Uh, a lot of people they get out in there And but now that you have all the massive stars going to ott platforms like Shahid Kapoor I mean Technically you can if you have the the hit series that's still going on in mizapur You can add anybody you want now I don't know if they want to add as long as I don't know if they want to add huge names Or if they just want to add these like the people that aren't like Shahid Kapoor Ranveer Obviously, I don't know if they want to add those level of of stars if they're just want to Like the uh Go ahead as long as The writers and the producers don't fall prey to the ridiculousness of Ooh, we can get this star now Stay on story and writing like you have been no matter what Happens. I don't think they would add somebody just to add somebody because they did the creators of this clearly care about quality actors But it's an easy temptation when your show starts to become big and you can afford to get whoever you want now But I would love to see vj. Raz. I would love to see nea rosh join this show I think he would fit this show fairly really well, and he's already in the amazon family Mm-hmm Abhishek I think would be a good addition. I I'd love to see I'd love to see Radhika come back in and around she hasn't been in enough television for me No, she's she's she's she's owned by netflix I think I think she does everything netflix. I don't know if she's a contract. I don't I don't know But yeah, she would fit this word and obviously they're adding powerful women and powerful roles For the women and that was that was a conscious huge decision. They made this season Was to consciously put the women in the forefront now Yeah, yeah beautifully beautifully written great great Yeah, it did to me it lived up to the hype. I think I think I think it was Just as good if not sometimes better than the first season in in some ways Especially in terms of character development You had much more character development of so many characters In in the second season that you didn't have in the first season And so I I can't wait for the third season and I hope it doesn't take two more years to come out but Yeah, that was great Let us let us know If you'd like once again if you'd like to see a full on cut version of our reactions You can check those out on patreon Let us know what's the next series which I'm hearing a lot of great things about scam 1992 Lot like you're hearing it's like the best series ever in india Uh, and that's after musiper and sacred games have already come out Uh By the director though that makes sense. He's a he's a phenomenal director Um, but also we got family man coming out in december So we have a lot of good, uh Stuff to choose from and then you also still have to watch, uh made in heaven And there was the deli crimes and there's there's we have a lot to get to obviously What what's what's unfortunate is that when we do series it takes it's a lot of work to To do series it takes a lot of time on top of the normal reactions We already have to put out to make everybody happy Uh But it actually it does more than double the work for you It doesn't it you you actually take Doing the series actually takes twice what you would typically do plus you still have to typically do what you typically do It's a lot of work So stupid babies give give give lots of love and appreciation to korban because when we do a series he's working his rear end I'm happy to do it because obviously, I mean it's it's not technically hard work. Obviously, there's I'm what I'm what I'm watching a show But yeah, whatever, uh, but yeah, let us know what we should watch and review next down below and Don't make series