We're not actually properly qualified to give, I mean, but we have lots of experience in football, like she's played in the FA Youth Cup, she's had multiple years of being a goalkeeper, obviously she's played at multiple high levels as well, and saying it's not anything with me, I lived in Poland for a few years, so I've worked with a goalkeeper coach for one of the best teams in the first division in Poland, so he's given me a lot of insight and knowledge about that as well. So I feel like I'm not sure whether that'll be a problem of whether we need a proof, a physical piece of qualification, whether just our experience on our portfolios on a website will be enough. That's a good question. I think the FA do have courses for goalkeeping, I believe. Yeah, I've seen, yeah, they do, yeah. So, I mean, there's not really a specific qualification that you need in terms to do personal training in goalkeeping, right? Yeah. If you want to have and gain extra qualifications, that's obviously always good because not only does it look good for parents, right, that you work with or clients, customers, but also helps you to keep up to date with all the latest coaching trends in the industry, okay? Okay. That's a good question. There's no specific qualification you need. Now, what I would recommend, though, is get as much of experience as you can. Yeah. So, before I started my business, I already had 10 plus years of experience working with youth players of all levels and I've worked in different countries as well. Once I went through that whole entire stage, then I felt like, you know what, I've done that now, what's the next bit? And the next bit for me personally was to start my own thing because I wanted to train players in the way that I felt could, you know, using my philosophy or training. So, that would be my only piece of advice for you is just get as much as experience as possible. Yeah. Work in with goalkeepers from different ages and then once you work with goalkeepers of different ages, you'll figure out, right, this is the age group I want to specialise in. Okay. And then that's how pretty much you can start to build your business around. Okay. You might find out, right, I like to work with goalkeepers between the ages of nine to 12. Yeah. Or I don't like to work with our age group, I want to work with older kids. Yeah. But you're not going to know that until you've got that experience coaching. So number of things you can do, you can volunteer at clubs. If you have any coaching qualifications like level one, you can go and do some paid work. There are companies out there that hire coaches with level ones. Okay. So there's a number of ways to do that you can do to get that experience, but I would recommend get as much experience as possible, especially as at the age you're currently at. Yeah. And then once you've done it on, you've worked with all the age groups, then you can sit down and say, right, okay, what age groups do I enjoy most? Yeah. Because at the end of the day, a business is the way I see it. A business is for you to enjoy. You've got to enjoy working with your customers. Yeah. So if you're building a business around an age group that you hate working with, then you're not going to be in business for very long. Yeah, definitely.


Hi, my name is Megan O'Reilly and I am a new student starting in the fall of 2021 at San Jose State University's iSchool for a Master's in Library and Information Science. I am thrilled and relieved and excited to and validated to receive one of the scholarships through the special sessions awards committee and I would like to express my gratitude for them for helping me in the next coming semester being able to possibly take a extra class instead of the one class I was planning on and also for validating me because I'm a new and returning student it's been a while since I've been in school and I'm creating the presentation to apply for this scholarship was a little nerve-wracking because it's been a while since I've done something formal like this in an academic setting so being chosen for this feels validating it feels like I'll be able to do the work and that I will be successful and I don't have to hustle as hard next semester to make ends meet so thank you so much


What's up everybody, Jason here from jazbyzcasebrakes.com. We're giving away 10 Cup Hockey spots here in a 1920 Uberdeck Allure Hockey Pack, one-pack break, round of teams number 11. So the way this works guys is first we will randomize the customer names and teams to distribute the hits out of the one pack of allure. And at the end of the break we'll randomize all 31 customer names again in a separate dash with a randomizer and the top 10 out of 31 get a spot in the Cup Hockey Round of Team. Break. And the next one, number 12, is already up. That'll sell out the break. So let's do the break first. Let's roll it and we got ourselves a two to two four times. One, two, three, and four. Mike, tower down to Sean. Alright, one, two, three. Florida Panthers out of the Arizona Coyotes. And there you go. Just a quick glance at what you got. Just a quick pack break. Alphabetize it. With the lower pack, Gobble Gocco Rookie, Jack Hughes, top 50. And a John Carlson, white rainbow. Phil Castel and Jake Kensel. There you go. Now let's see who's gonna get into the break itself. And we're in top ten, get in. Let's roll it again. And if they four and they three this time for six times. Or seven times, sorry, four and three seven times. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Boom. So Jason, you're in. Nick, Sean, Mike, Ryan, Sean, Sean, Nick, Sean, and Barry. There you go. Seven times, top ten, get in. Boom. One more way to win is on the website, guys, and already down to 27. So let's get it going, guys.


Welcome to the Valley Advocate Podcast, featuring interviews that take us deeper into the people and happenings on the local scene. For more podcasts and a closer look at what's going on in the valley, visit us at valleyadvocate.com. Hi, my name is Dave Eisenstader. I am the editor of the Valley Advocate. This is the Valley Advocate Podcast, our collaboration with Amherst Media. I'm here with arts and culture editor Gina Beavers. And we are here with Barb Haddon, a phenomenal artist who now lives in Greenfield, a transplant of a few years, but welcome. It's great to be here. You have a show at the Oxbow Gallery in here in Northampton. And I got the pleasure of visiting you at the gallery as you were setting up. So first, you know, I mean, I love talking about people's art. So I mean, it's like, I love it. And what I really, really, really, really liked about talking to you about it yesterday was that you are honest. You're an honest, organic person and your work is honest and organic as well. Wow. I mean, that's, that was my very first, first thought about it. And you have a really, for this show, you start out as a photographer. Yeah. But these shows, but you moved into painting and of course this show of painting, but how did you move from being a photographer, a black and white photographer to a person who paints in full color? That's a pretty good question. I think partly about being a black and white photographer and being in a dark room in the old days, you know, is you have emulsion, like on the film itself, there's a silver emulsion and on the paper, because I was always using paper, paper they call it, the plastic resin coated. So it has a certain kind of white, it has a lot of gray and a lot of black. So when you're working with it as, I guess an artist who's also kind of technically dealing with it because I didn't send my stuff out to a lab and I also worked at a lab. So I was, I was actually really well trained in a, in a lab that did headshots for actors. So we were always trying to get the exact right skin tones and there were a lot of tricks to, to exposure and timing and, and things. So I kind of feel like it's a, it's a similar thing as painting. It's like a surface and in photography, the way I was doing it before there, it was an emulsion, which is like a coating of silver and a bunch of other chemistry that moves around in, as it light hits it, it's, it's like a, well, maybe that word organic applies in a way, even though it's chemistry, science kind of, but it's also like cooking a little bit. So painting, for me, I kind of came into it. It was like, I like, I like the surface of things. I like to move around stuff and emulsion moves around, paint moves around. Paint is a kind of emulsion, like especially oil paint. Yeah. It's slippery. And you work in oil. Yeah. Yeah. And watercolor. Okay. So there's, there's so many different parallels, like the, the white coming through in the water, called luminosity in a painting can, can be about the, the white of the panel coming through it. Right. And a photographer, in photography, you're looking at a print and you want to see what you missed when you made the print, you hold it up on a window and the light comes through and you can see all the gray. Right. So I think that's sort of where it is. So you got tired of being in a dark room, too? I did. I wanted to get outside, you know, just to be outside. So your paintings, I was looking back at your older paintings when you first started to paint. Um, it was interesting because you kind of fluctuated between some color. And then there was a period of not a lot of color, a lot of whites and, and. Well, white. Yeah. All right. Because you don't have to paint as much. Right.  Right.  But so there's a physical connection with the material that I don't lose touch with just because I can't paint that day or that week or that month. I'm in the, I have that, that stuff in my hands. That's amazing.  It's a different mindset. Yeah. You know, it's a lot scarier to, um, make a painting. Really? Then someone's like house that might be there for generations or something. I felt her fear. I felt a lot more experienced painting houses than paintings. Okay. You know, unfortunately. No, no, no, not, not, but, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, I don't mind house painting. I mean, it's, I'm getting older. It's going to get harder to, to be hired and to do the work. Yeah. But, uh, I'm going to go as long as I can. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's awesome. So then at a certain point in your work, you went from this kind of monochromatic white and, and then you left right in the color, like greens and blues, greens in the woods. Yeah. A lot of greens, but, um, even the show now, the, the, the, one of the big differences in your show now too, is that you were landscape. You're doing a lot of landscape, a lot of trees and this show is figures. Yeah. People, women. Yeah. So this is something brand new. Well, people, women too, because when I was in art school, did a lot of drawing. Right. So we're always working with the figure and I was much more comfortable working with the male figure. Okay. You know, why? I just thought it was more of a common thing. No, but, but I don't know. Maybe it's like, uh, who I am. You know, I have a lot of brothers, blah, blah, blah. Um, I'm also a lesbian. So I always was sort of uncomfortable with how I felt myself. Like, why do I love this form so much? And maybe it worked too, cause I could separate, you know, desire from, uh, form, right, right, right in a sense. Um, but now it's kind of like, Oh, there's a lot out there.  It's like, what is it like to be a woman in this world? There's a lot, a lot more going on right now, you know, with what you were saying, or you were saying the me too, the women's march, you know, all these things. And so, and there's more material out, there's more information out. And, um, so I think it kind of accumulated, you know, like painting is also about accumulating, not so much photography because when you're making a painting, you're just keep trying to figure it out.  So like the information has been building up about like education for, for girls, women, daughter, she was talking about it too. Yeah. Um, the kids, you know, the role models thing. So I think it kind of just accumulated to a point where I was like, okay, this is what I'm thinking about.  I'm connecting more with, with myself and, and feeling more confident.  The way people, you know, didn't get to be literate 200 years ago. And it was a big threat and people were, were murdered for, for being able to read or, or, or studying or, or something like that. And how does that reflect these days?  You know, and that's, and that's title nine. That's all title nine is, I believe is started out in the seventies around that Billie Jean King tennis match. Um, so they wanted to have sort of equal access to the sports programs and public schools and colleges. And then Barack Obama added a lot of stuff about, um, protection from sexual harassment for, you know, men also boys and men also. And for differently abled, you know, access to sports. Um, so it's kind of a, it's kind of an important thing. And I, I believe I looked it up when I was writing the statement for the show to see, you know, cause a lot of the images come from, or some of them anyway, come from the title nine. So it has like a dual meeting. Yeah. So, so yeah. So when I first saw those cows, I was like, wow, I could do a whole series of this is kind of, there's like a lot of angles you could come at this information in this catalog from, you know, not, I'm not going to go buy the clothes because they're really expensive. And title, title night for, for anybody who doesn't know title nine as a catalog for women, it's clothing. And it's, it's, it's, I was describing to Davis, but it's a little cruel because, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's so fake. Yeah. It's kind of like these beautifully formed women and these wonderful clothing and doing these amazing things that most of us will never get to do.  So I cut off coconut. And it's just kind of, it's kind of mean, but it's, it's alluring. It's alluring.  Right. You can be in sports too. You can be sold. You can be like, oh, like you can do, you could do this, even though you probably will not and cannot, but, but you could because of, you know, title nine and, right, you know, like all inclusion. Right. Yeah. So the, it's sort of sporting wear kind of, you know, and support bras. Yeah. And so you took those images and you, that's your, some of your inspirations. I was like, I could really make paintings out of these images because they're so iconic. Is that the word? Oh, in a way they are. In a way they are. The striking photography is beautiful photography. And I, and I, and I have always wanted to be doing things outdoors. Like the J. Paintings kind of was like, it's great to be out in the woods all day. I mean, it's amazing the kind of meditation that happens being on site and looking and painting and looking at paint. Nothing else is coming into your mind. That's like plain air. Yeah. Yeah. I was living on a farm in Conway and there were acres of woods and I was able just to go up in there and be there all day and not, and just by myself, you know, work. But one of the things we talked about yesterday was that you, having loved the outdoors, one of the things you used to do on the Appalachian Trail and you felt that you had to stop. I had to stop. Yeah. Because I felt threatened, you know, it was, it was hard. It was, it could, there was only one time there was a really creepy guys following me and I would see notes, you know, around in the, in the huts and the, the outhouses. I don't forget the latrines, you know. And it was like, oh, have you seen this person? And I just got really creeped out.  She's so courageous. She's fearless.   I didn't hike the Appalachian Trail. But you know, sections and I like to hike. I like to be by myself, you know, that's courageous though. It is, but I didn't have enough to like, just say, oh, I'll be fine. That's because you were sane. Because, you know, that there have been dangerous people 2000 miles and I had an experience and I didn't like say, oh, I'm prepared. I wasn't prepared. And that was a while ago too. Like it was a long time ago. I was like in my very, I think I was still in, in, you know, like 20, maybe. Do you, do you think that the trail is safer now or like, I don't know, like, I think there's just a whole lot more people. I haven't actually, I went with my nephew and my brother, I think two falls ago, we went in Vermont near his house and it was really interesting actually because I was with them and then we arrived at the hut and it was raining and there were like 10 guys and they all assumed that I was a guy first. So I, I heard all this really awful, sexual, explicit talk that they were having around this fire because they assumed that I was a guy and then when they heard my voice, they assumed that my brother was my husband and my nephew was my son, you know, so we went through, you know, went through all this stuff.  Yeah, so you're kind of out there and it can be scary, I suppose. Yeah, I suppose it can be scary, you know, so you've kind of filtered that into your paintings. Yeah, so it's kind of like, that's another aspect of I want to, you know, I want, I have wanted to be out and doing those things and and when I was in high school, we did rock climbing and that was so fun and caving because I was in Washington, DC and West Virginia and Virginia and those parts that it's near, there's a lot of that kind of stuff that you can go do and it's all really, it was really beautiful, you know, 40 years ago, right. And I don't know what it's like now. Yeah, so I always wanted to be involved in those things, but it's sort of, you know, being going to art school and stuff, that's where it goes, different, there weren't really climbers at art school, right, so much. Maybe there aren't now, because now it's because they have the indoor stuff and you can really, you know, you don't have to go to West Virginia to go find some rocks. Yeah, but it's almost like you're experiencing these things through your painting.  I think that all artists live vicariously through their paintings a little bit, you know, whether or not you're creating something that you want or creating or trying to encapsulate a moment or, you know, I think that we all do that. And so at the Oxbow, the gallery, at the gallery, your show starts on, start April 5th. Yes, today. Yep, and goes to, it goes, I believe, to the 29th, which is a Sunday.  You're a member of the Oxbow, this will be your last show at the Oxbow. Yep, I've been a member for probably 10 or 11, maybe 12 years. Yeah. And it's a great gallery. It's the room itself, the bigger room. There's two rooms. There's a back room and a front room. They're both really great rooms. The front room particularly, it's just, it's not a really big space, but it's for, for what an artist would want in a gallery here in this, in this area in the valley. I think it's, it's kind of unique because it has, like, just, it's just plain. It's just these great walls. It's set up nice. It has pretty good lighting, you know, and you can, you can put on a really professional show if you want to. You know, if you put the energy into it. It's a co-op, so everybody is doing their own. Nice. Mostly, there are, there is committees and things that help with publicity and, and stuff like that, but it's kind of your show and you, you make it what it is. And the potential to make something really good is, is pretty high in there, I think. Yeah, I was just reading about, sort of, the cooperative model for a different business.  Well, it's kind of, I think as I get older, it's harder to connect because I want to stay in it night. Yeah. It's like, I, it's like, oh, I don't know how to go all the way down. Something starts at nine o'clock. He's tamping, you know. You gotta get on, or you gotta get on fire depending on your preference. I used to have a studio over at the arts and industry building and I sort of met some people that way. And that's how I got connected to the gallery where somebody came to open studios there and said, oh, you should apply to be in this co-op. So that was a connection. And then I also was part of a critique group at UMass. I can't remember the name of the gallery right now, but there's a couple of galleries there that are pretty good too. I think it's some. Anyway, I can't remember right now. And that ended up being a lot of women my age. And once I settled down and kind of like, OK, that's my job. And I've been doing that for like four or five years. I have a job I have to do Sundays now. It was always Sunday. So I can't go to that group anymore. But that was another way. So critique groups, there's some of those around. So that's how you would connect aside just from going to openings and stuff. So when somebody goes to the Oxbow to see your show, what can they expect? I know what to expect because I've seen it. Well, what can I expect? There's not a lot of paintings in the show. A friend of mine helped me hang it. And I think because I had a very short amount of time to do this work in, it's really important. I think one thing about painting is it's a group effort. It seems like it's like one person, you know, by themselves up in the attic. But it's actually the whole thing about connecting, making connections, and that word networking, which I hate, is really important. And like, for instance, having a statement to help people kind of connect with it is really important. I think that's kind of how I got here was somewhat that statement because for the first time I wrote something that wasn't just about painting itself. Like I wrote something that I was thinking about because of a book I read and how I got the name for the show, which is Thoughts on the Education of Daughters. So it's kind of a provocative. That's the name of the book? And I stole it from my show. And the book is called Romantic Outlaws. And I forget the author's name, but it's Mary Wollstonecraft and Mary Shelley, the mother and the daughter. And their lives 200 years ago in England, and it was just mind blowing to me, like what was happening with them. And they were really those courageous kind of people that expect violence against them and a lot of judgmental and shaming from the culture of the community and they could deal with it. And Mary Shelley, of course, went on to write Frankenstein. Right, Frankenstein, yeah, yeah. And Mary Wollstonecraft, her mom, who died when Mary Shelley was born, she died giving birth to her daughter, was, oh, I don't know what they are called, but she was a women's rights person from the get-go and she wrote that book, Thoughts on the Education of Daughters and many others. And she was, had these really unusual sort of things at the time, like open marriage and literacy, which was like, oh, literacy? Literacy, you know what, for women? No, so it was interesting to me anyway, to be looking backwards more, because I'm a certain age and I'm looking at what's the issues are now and I sometimes think to myself selfishly. I wish people would ask the older people more, what it was like, because, yeah, we knew. But then when I read that book, I was like, I did not ask anybody who came before me what it was like for them. So it was great to hit that book and then sort of open my mind to more different points of view and what's going on now, without having this kind of like, wish somebody would ask me, you know? Right. What happened? But we're asking you? Yeah, we're asking you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  Well, the me too thing, I think is really good stuff, but I really think the answers are gonna be in like how you set up worksites, like for instance, co-ops, like having cooperatively run businesses takes care of the boss. There isn't someone that has all the power sitting there that then everyone else is afraid of. So it's like an automatically kind of set up situation for bad stuff to happen. You know, and it's not just sexual harassment either, I'm sure that happens. So that's one thing I think, if they ask me, I'd say, you know, let's look at how to set up work environments that don't involve bosses. That's interesting.  Well, but it's happening in a few places. Yeah, there are people that are working hard to structure those, how do you do that? You know, how do you do that well? You know, for a corporation or whatever, or how does capitalism deal with co-ops? So that's that. And I still have a lot of things I need to learn about the sort of the gender stuff. That's a pretty interesting place to be kind of coming into as an older person, as someone who, me personally, I never felt like I was a man, but I got a lot of feedback out there like people would treat me like I was before they would speak. It happens a lot less now than I'm older, but, and I wasn't purposely making myself look a certain way.  To be authentic. To be okay, you know, like I don't, I can't do that. I can't, you know, it's like, I can't put a dress on, sorry. You know, I can't. So there's that kind of stuff, and I'm sure that there's many young women or girls or whatever, and boys too, their side of it, that have that kind of like clothing. What would be the word, like dysplasia or like clothing? That's so funny, I heard a dis in my mind. I was like, what would it be? It's not, it's something that's wrong, you know. It's something that people are looking at you and they're judging you, and it can be scary, you know. And I'm sure people that like, especially men who are more like women, it's very threatening to be different gendered or whatever, or gender neutral, or one, identify as the opposite, like gender. I don't have all the language, I haven't done my training, you know, my research. And it is a lot of research. Yeah, and it's a really interesting place, but I do wish that there was already not so strict rules. I wish that the culture was a little looser so that people wouldn't feel like they had to like make those kind of choices. Does it seem like we're going that way or not? It doesn't.  And then everyone that's like making these choices and changing over, that's really scary stuff. And it's also kind of dangerous, you know, health-wise.  So now that you're kind of retiring from the Oxbow, and you have these thoughts, and it sounds like you're, you are very interested in educating yourself in various things as a life student in a way. Do you think that's going to inform your future pieces of art? Because one of the other things that I really liked about you too is that you were really honest about, I started this piece in 2013. Yeah, and I said, I had to make this work because I had this show coming up and I have to make this work somehow, because I've done the same thing. So I just, you know, it's hard to know as an artist what your next big thing is going to be, but it seems like there are things that are percolating in your mind, particularly since you're going to be moving from the Oxbow, because that's taken up some time. Yeah. Yeah, as I age, I need to earn more money and I'm less able to earn more money, so I got to figure this out, you know. So that was based only on income and what I was capable of investing in the Oxbow money-wise and time-wise, because now I have an extra job on Sundays, so I used to gallery sit on Sundays, so I had to switch with someone, which is fine, but now it's on Friday and that's a potential day to make income, and you know. So for me personally, it wasn't going to work anymore, but it worked for a long time when I was able to do it. So you think you'll paint more?  I'm kind of done, you know. But then like I got your email and the paintings did come together and the friend of mine that helped me hang and also came in a couple of times and was like, hey, you know, that was the extra set of eyes that I didn't get to have because I couldn't get away from the work. I started feeling a little better that maybe I could continue, you know. With it somehow or other, and maybe by opening, you know, letting go of the oxbow or something else will kind of like. Do you ever think about teaching? I have been a teacher in my youth. Yeah. Did you move on? Or what's that? There's no going back. It was, I think what happened with the teaching profession is it got really administrative. And I kind of left before that got really hard and I have people, I know people that are still teaching and it's unbelievable. Like the rubrics, you know, and the accountability and the intense pressure from parents, some people think that it's just a lot of pressure from the parents that the administration kind of like they're on that team and teachers don't always get. And I'm sure this is like very general, I'm generalizing a lot, but for instance, I have a friend that when the last president election, you know, happened and I think she did something like when he was gonna like the thing with immigration.  She's an art teacher. Let's start the class off with like five minutes of like where you're from, you know, where's your family from? And somebody in her class reported her and she was, you know, over one weekend, she thought she was gonna lose her job for doing that, you know. So there's that too, like in this kind of climate, political climate that we're in, it's pretty hard to be a teacher. So I'm pretty okay about being out of it, but if I'd stayed, I'd be like, okay, I can retire now. Yeah, right, right, right. Which is why I kind of got to do it in the first place. I was like, I gotta take care of myself better, but I never did, so. Well, something always presents itself. Yeah, yeah, I've been kind of lucky. Yeah, so. Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, thanks for coming in. Thanks so much. Well, thank you very much for happening. I mean, happening. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. We're all happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's your website if people want you to try? Oh, yeah, right, right. Just my name, www.barbrahadn, H-A-D-D-E-N, dot com. And I'll warn you, though, I haven't updated it in a while, but you can see all the old paintings. Yes, you can. Right. Yes, you can. Thank you so much, Barbara. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening, and don't forget to visit us at valleyadvocate.com.


The division method for base conversion forms the complement to the multiplication method. So whereas the multiplication method has you performing your arithmetic in the destination base, the division method will have you do it in the source base. And again, we're going to have a whole lot of arithmetic to do, but it's going to involve relatively straightforward numbers to work with. We won't have to memorize anything. As the complement of the multiplication method, the division method basically works in reverse. So we're going to start by taking our number, and we're going to do a whole lot of division. Each step, we're going to take the remainder out and just use that as the next digit in our solution. So we'll gradually build up our solution one digit at a time. If we start with a number like 85 and base 10, and we want to convert this to base two, I'm going to start by dividing by two. So this will give me 42 remainder one. So I'll take this one and I'll write it down. That is now my most significant bit. Of course, I don't have any other bits, so it's also my least significant bit. Now I'll go back over here and I'll divide by two again. So 42 divided by two gives me 21 remainder zero. So I'll copy down the zero and I'll divide again. So 21 divided by two gives me 10 remainder one. I'll copy down the remainder again. So 10 divided by two gives me five remainder zero. I'll copy down the remainder. Five divided by two gives me two remainder one. So I'll copy over the one, two divided by two gives me one, remainder zero, and one divided by two gives me zero, remainder one. Now I can continue doing this division as much as I'd like, but my results are never going to change. Zero divided by anything is always going to give me zero remainder zero. So I just get an infinite number of zeros. So this is my same number in binary as 85 in base 10. While this turns out to be a palindrome, we can also look at this as saying, here's the beginning of my number, here's the end of it. So I can actually just read down this list of remainders and say that this is my number in base two. So one zero, one zero, one zero, one. If we had a more complicated number, this would be a little more obvious. If we had something that wasn't symmetrical, in this case it's not clear. But you certainly can do that. That would do exactly the same thing as writing this out one bit at a time.


This is a cultural event from the British Library. Welcome to the Norwich Centre Theatre at the British Library and a very, very warm welcome to our very special guest, Dr. Carla Hayden. I'm Roli Keating, Chief Exec of the British Library. Carla, as I'm sure you know, is the 14th Librarian of Congress. I think you know, but the first woman, the first African-American, to hold the office in 217 years. So, you are a librarian by profession, by training, from early days at Chicago Public Library. And you returned there, I think, in the early 90s, is that right? Yes. It's around the Chicago system, but you've done stints at the Museum of Science and Industry there, University of Pittsburgh. Then probably best known in the States as a hugely successful Chief Exec at the Pratt Free Library in Baltimore, which underwent an astonishing transformation under Carla's leadership. Then, last year, came the moment when the then President of the United States made the nomination and noted at the time her enduring commitment to innovation and participation in libraries. And that's a theme, I think, we would love to explore. But let's begin first with, and I do want to then track back a little bit, through previous experience, but let's talk about the job you've taken on. So, the Library of Congress, it's known, I'm sure, by reputation to many people here, but it's a somewhat different kind of beast from the British Library. It's also, and I'm going to say this now, and then I'm going to say it on the record, it is the biggest library in the world. But I think between us, can we confidently say we run the two biggest libraries in the world? I think so. But for a British audience, maybe you haven't made it to Washington, maybe can you just paint a little picture of the scale of the Library of Congress? Well, the Library of Congress holds 162 million items, and I just converted from miles to kilometers because I knew my audience, because it's 832 miles, but that's 1,400 kilometers from here to Vienna. It is the first federal cultural institution in Washington, D.C. It started in 1800, and there was something that happened in 1814. Oh yeah, there was some invading power, is that right? Some group that didn't, there was some unpleasantness. Those who are laughing know what we're talking about here. Those who are looking quizzical, this was in 1814, and it was the British Expeditionary Force into Washington who appear to have set a few things on fire, including the White House and Congress containing all pretty much the whole collection of the first generation of the Library of Congress, because the Library of Congress was established in 1800, and it was established to serve that legislative body. So here, for instance, you have parliamentary libraries. Here it's separate. It's separate from the National Library, but that's how the Library of Congress started. So the Library was established 1800 in the Capitol Building, and there were several thousand volumes that were there for Congress people to refer to. And as I was told, when I was visiting a legislator during my nomination process, I went into this wonderful office and the gentleman showed me the fireplace. I said, oh, that's wonderful. He said, well, that's where the British put the books from the library to start the fire. That didn't end well. And so Thomas Jefferson at the time had the most extensive library in the country. And you may know a little bit, he's a president that was part of forming the nation. And he's offered to sell his collection to Congress. I guess I can say that this is public knowledge. He had an opportunity to sell his wine collection as well. He said that he had an extensive collection that included religion and books and other languages. And he said there is no subject that a member of Congress should not have to refer. And over time, the Library grew and then in 1870, the Library of Congress was charged with administering the copyright process for the United States. And part of that process included adding copies of books to be registered for copyright. And then the collection grew and grew. And it grew astonishingly. And it's really been the foundation. And now, about 162 million, the archives of 23 presidents from George Washington all the way up to Coolidge. So it's quite an extensive. And as ever, because people always say that to us, it is not just book collections, but just reminders of the... Manuscript collections, prints, photographs, even items that you wouldn't expect that are almost museum quality, the contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets. The night he was assassinated, these types of items. Charles Dickens' cane. We're not giving it back. But several, several items. So there's a full range in going back to at least 1200 AD and all of that. And diversity of language? It's not just... 470 languages. And half of the collection is actually not in English. And so people don't know like that. America's a very multilingual country, anyway. And so the collection is not only about the United States, but all nations. And in fact, we just repatriated materials from Afghanistan back to the country because some of the things have been destroyed. So it's really a worldwide collection, just like here. Just like here? And I mean, through a different historical process here in Britain, yes, we've ended up, we think with all the great language groups of the world, all the different content types. And we can talk maybe about the role of great libraries in the current age, in actually finding ways through digitization, for instance, to share content. So for me, it raises the question about the role and identity of Library of Congress. We call ourselves the National Library of the UK. You have the Congressional role, but to what extent will you also the National Library of America? We say that we are the Library of Congress America's library because it is a public library. People can get a reader's card just at the age of 16 and to do research, anyone can walk in. And that's something that we're working on to let more people know that this is their library. This is their national library. We also are, and that's why we're here, to learn from the British Library that, and you didn't pay me to say this, but in terms of large national libraries that have extended themselves to communities that have made the people of the country and everywhere else feel welcome and to use their resources, the British Library is the model for all of us. And so we're here learning and that. So the Library of Congress, in its name, it sounds like it's not for anyone else. And that's something that we're working on. So Library of Congress America's Library. How do we reach out to other types of libraries? How do we make sure that people see the Library of Congress as a resource for them, whether they're doing serious research or just wanting to find out about things? And so that's our challenge now. And that's the challenge you've, so that's a challenge that will, I guess, connect you with the public library sector. And that was where you began your career in Chicago, or maybe not the very beginning, but early on in Chicago. But maybe even before, thinking back before that, at what point in your life did it begin to feel natural to you that that was a career aspiration or a sector that you could work in? Well, I had an interesting experience as a child. I spent summers in the state capital of Illinois, that sort of looks. And I didn't realize at the time that my grandparents were taking me to the state library. It was grand, it was wonderful. And the person that they went to church with, Miss Pindigrasse. You could, I do this when I say Miss Pindigrasse because she was Miss Pindigrasse. But she attended the church and she worked at the state library. And so I had full reign of the state library and the governor's office, the company with grandfather, and all that, I had that experience. And then I had experience in New York when we moved there when it was about five or six of going to a storefront branch. And so I've been involved with libraries for quite a while. So your very earliest library is a pretty grand library experience.  You don't know, you think all libraries look like that, that's pretty. And they're pretty neat. Yeah. But a storefront library. Tell us about that storefront library. That storefront library was right across the street from Public School 96 in Queens, New York. And after school, you would go into the... This was where you were... Right, right, that we were in New York. And I would go there and spend the magic hours from three to six that a lot of children still do in libraries. And one day, someone gave me a book called Bright April. And I'll never know who actually did it because I love that book. It was a little brown girl with pigtails and she was a brownie. And it was the first time I'd seen myself reflected in a book. And that connection, I love that book. I learned about library finds with that book. Yeah, because I just took it out and everything. But that was the power. And then later in life... And just again, for a pretty short, I don't think we know the book. Is it a story? Oh, it's called Bright April. It's about a little brown girl. That was by an author, Marguerite D'Angeli. And she was writing books for kind of what were then considered outsider children. Children of color or a Quaker girl, a Jewish child. So all of these groups. And she had a series of books. So that was that. But I always love books. My parents were musicians. I am a librarian. That tells you something. Just like they could read notes. And hear music. And I realized I could look at text and hear words. So it was a different connection. But later in life, when I was looking for a job after graduating from college, and I wasn't finding one, I had no experience in anything. Except going to school. I would go between job interviews, trying to figure out what I was doing. And in the library. In Chicago, the public library. And one of my colleagues who had just graduated with me said, hey, Carla, you're here for the library job. They're hiring anybody. At any degree. It's the library associate program. Which we still have in library programs. So I went up. That person didn't get the job. I did. That's a life lesson somewhere. There is something. And then they put me in another storefront branch. On the south side of Chicago. With this lady who was going to graduate library school. And she was on the floor, giving story time to children with autism. She had on jeans. And she had frizzy hair. And she wasn't black. And so I mean, she was really there in that community and connecting with those children. And I said, wow, this is something that might be interesting. And then I found out about graduate life and that it's a profession. And it just married the things that I love the most with trying to help people too. Interesting, the storefront library. I bet even tracking back to New York actually, you talk about the magic hour. Yes. Three to five in the evening or whatever it may be. Were you one of the lone kids making that trip across the road? A lot of kids doing that, yeah. Everybody pretty much was. Quite a few were going. And I would stop after that and go to the candy store. And then it was like, wow, I had your books. And that, so that's played out. As tracking back, thinking to that childhood self, what was the meaning of that library? Was it about a place you could think or feel safe or what? It's funny, we talk about the library as a safe place so much now. At that time, and I'm a little older now, but at that time it was like going into a treasure chest. Nobody was telling you what you had to read. You could go and pick out anything. You could look at it. It just was like, wow. And then I could take them out for free. It's a freedom, it was fun. Well, it was freedom. And that was the first card you ever had with your name on it, right? And you had a transaction with adults. You'd go to the checkout desk. And you were responsible. Those fines though I didn't, I won't tell you about. Well, you take responsibility, you clearly feel responsible.  But that's that sense of here's something that you're doing and that they're not trying to tell you what to read. That you have the freedom to pick what you want. You made that professional decision. You discovered there was a profession. Right, I didn't even know. It's like magic, this stuff appears. And then, back now from what you're doing now, what were then the things you began to learn as you became a manager and the leader and began to actually take charge? Because at that point it became serious and real responsibility. And it didn't start out like that. I was perfectly happy doing story time and working with children. Because you were involved in the community side. And then I started working with the young adults, the teenagers. And most people, everybody loves the three and five year olds. They're cute, they do what you want, they mind. But when they get about 12, they're a little more difficult. And they were looking for people who wanted to work with young adults. And I got into that. Did the 12 year olds even want to come into the library? Well, they would come in, but they were noisy and they were teenagers. And that is fun. And so they were starting serving young adults. And then they asked me, would I coordinate some of those librarians? And so that was my first foray into managing and working with adults. And then that started to evolve into more responsibility like that. And I had to really think, do I want to work directly with the client or the person? Or help others do it? So that was a mentor. And that was a judgment point. That was a key element. And then it just kept going in terms of management and that. And so you really, that's not unusual for people in different professions. And that's right. Yeah, do you step away from the front line? Do you start thinking more? Can you still help people by not helping them directly? And that was a turning point. And Baltimore, a great city library, a huge, big system. But a lot, I think, changed in the time there. So what did you inherit? And what drew you there? And what was the challenge you confronted? What was interesting about the Enoch Pratt Free Library, we studied it in library school. It was the first library system in the United States, the first library to have branches in different communities. It was the first library. Endowed by an original day. You're not proud of it? Mr. Enoch Pratt, who was a Yankee from Massachusetts who made his fortune selling nails and then went into banking and didn't have any children.  So he was very thrifty, very thrifty, and became quite prominent. And he was part of a group of gentlemen in that time in the 1870s in that city. That was the third largest city in the United States at the time, Baltimore, that set up, one set up a university, one set up the art museum. So he was, and he did the public library. So we knew about it was the first library to have public relations. A lot of things came out of the library, but it had fallen on hard times. The city had changed. And the fate of the city reflected, the library reflected that. And so I was getting ready to head the Chicago Public Library, where I had been the chief librarian and commissioner. So it sounds very high, but it was the chief librarian. And I don't know if many know that Chicago, Illinois, has a pretty political heritage. Baltimore, that system, Mr. Pratt, set it up as he said to be free of politics and religion. And they had a separate board and a separate endowment. And so they contacted me and said, would you help make this library come back and be that? Could you do it? And it came at a good time. I think Chicago, I was leaving home and all of that. But the idea of that. And then I thought, OK, it's 35 miles from Washington DC. I love Washington DC, right? So I thought, I'll learn about the city. And that's when I realized that when I got there, that city was 35 miles, but 30 million miles away in terms of the communities, what they faced. And I was hooked. Yeah, I was hooked by the challenge. And because in that city, the library was more than a place to get bestsellers. It was more than anything. It was a lifeline to those communities, literal lifeline. In what way? Tell me. People were, the school system had been challenged. So it was that those magic hours, three to six, what I had when I was growing up, it was really homework help. Children that hadn't had anything to wouldn't face any food when they got home, that didn't have people who could help them with just trying to figure out the world, much less school, extreme poverty. So the library, for instance, developed a virtual supermarket program with the grocery store. I mean, it was really basic life safety, plus things like when you think of an area that doesn't have opportunities, how could people apply for a job if 95% of all jobs now require you to file online? So people were coming in to actually apply for a job, use the library computers, but they needed help with the applications, so the library staff. So you really knew that you were helping people. Wow. And that was the situation you inherited. And is that right? Yes. And the fortunes of the city went up and down over the years until the most recent unrest and actual, that was really. And the library retained that, which of course we heard about here and followed. And through that time, the library's aura or significance right at the heart of the community grew, is that right? Yes. We stayed open. So this was during the unrest. Yeah, the one library was right there in the corner that was shown worldwide with the burning cars and everything. It was right there. And we decided to open the next day. Tell me about the decision-making. The decision-making was something like that. The telephone goes. The telephone goes. We knew it was brewing. And so there were two or three days where there were minor incidents. Remind us what the flashpoint was. The flashpoint was the death of a young man in police custody. And the city had had racial tensions for a number of years, starting from 1968. There were race riots that they still talked about. And houses were still boarded up from 1968 from that riot. So that community had, I'd have to say, festered and was boiling with all types of issues. And the police relationship, the relationship with the police had grown even more contentious over time. So when this young man was in a coma first, he weren't sure how he received his injuries after he was arrested and put into a paddy wagon, as they called it, that. And he was paralyzed, and then he died. And so there was just this. And the police officers weren't charged with any crime. So it just was just a lot. And this library had been that lifeline right in that community on the corner. And so when I got the call from the librarian who had sheltered the staff and the public in the library, she said, I closed the doors. And then she let them in. She said, but they need us so much, I want to open tomorrow. And I said, well, OK. And I said, but I'll be there, too. Because you can't ask staff members to do something you wouldn't do. So as I mentioned, my mom is here. So she worked in social work and had a good role model. But I knew that I couldn't tell her I was going until like 15 minutes before. So she wouldn't tell me no, or I wouldn't.  So I waited. And all she said was take some water and some napkins. And then by that, two days later, she was at the front desk giving out fruit and greeting people in the community. And it became the lighter. Oh, they were there. They were lined up that morning. They had protected the library and stood in front of it and to keep people from vandalizing it. But they said, people didn't even try. And then it became the Food Distribution Center. It was the only facility open to the public. There were no grocery stores, drug stores. Nothing was open in that area but the library. And so we became that place. It's fascinating how under acute pressure the values of what libraries are for really reveal themselves. They do. And even back to Pratt talking about the independence from politics or religion or whatever it may be, that was kind of understood. People knew that in that role you were not a political role. You were a civic. It's a civic duty. And I noticed that right here in the lobby of the British Library where you have that sofa and that community engagement and what you're doing really speaks to that public commitment of a library. That I'd love to see the values and the essence of a public library combined with the rich research library. And that's what we're here to see how you've done that. You're listening to the British Library. For more, follow us on YouTube and SoundCloud. So let's bring back to the present then. You're there in Washington, DC in the magnificent office overlooking the capital. And yet your thoughts, I think, about how you connect widely across a huge, much larger, even more diversification than we are. And how do you begin to think with how do you simultaneously stay in the mighty citadel of Washington and connect with public libraries or take on that national role that you're talking about? And I think when you say stay in Washington, that's what I'm not going to do. Very good. And that's what the library is not going to do. And I had to think about this when I was really honored to be asked to serve as the 14th librarian. And that was the word to serve because I thought, how could I go from really knowing, standing on a street corner in Baltimore and opening the door for people and having them come in and knowing to my just bottom of my soul, that this was something that was important to do, that you really were helping people to the world's largest library that's known for its scholarship. What could I bring to that? And how can I help people and serve people, all types of people? And the turning point was when the then president told me about his experience seeing the contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets and all of the treasures that he was able to see. And he said, but I think some of that was because I'm the president of who I am. What can you do and what would you do to make sure that everyone had that opportunity in some form? And I was hooked again. And that's the challenge. How do we make everyone the serious researcher and the scholar that's here looking at your Ethiopian manuscripts from 1600, feel just as welcome as the young people that were in the workshop that I attended this afternoon learning about dialect. That's why I know about the word like because he explained it. But they were so engaged. And you had one of your senior curators, I mean top-notch researcher, engaging these kids from Corden, think it was, Corden. And he presented his research to them in such an interesting way that they were making that connection. So that's what we are looking at. How can we take that expertise and present it in various ways, traveling exhibits, trucks that are going to go into all areas of the country, and we're going to have the Library of Congress come to you and your area. And I think, to my knowledge, that's the first time Library of Congress will have been. Well, they did it several years ago. Tell us a little bit about it, yeah. They did it several years ago. It was very successful. However, it was privately funded and the funds ran out. And so I have the mock-up of the truck in my office now to give me inspiration because that idea of taking the Library of Congress on the road is very welcome to a lot of communities. And I've talked to public libraries. So making that reach to public libraries and saying, we are a resource for you. We had a booth at the American Library Association conference last week. And we rolled out all of the things that we could do, but also asked, what do you think we could do for you, too? And so just reaching out. And they gave feedback. You have messages back, yeah? They signed up. They wanted to. But they also are saying you can. And we've experimented with it. Say we have a wonderful author in Washington to live stream the author out to communities to be able to have that. So all types of ways to reach out, not just to the public libraries, school libraries, as well. The interesting part about the survival of public libraries in the United States is that when economic times happen, the use of the libraries increases because people are using public libraries even more, even when they're financially strapped or their communities are. The federal funding for public libraries has decreased over time. And most of them have had to do public private partnerships and private fundraisers now. Quite a few, even the college and university libraries are doing more fundraising as part of that. And with national libraries, we are in an interesting situation because of the perception that the government should entirely fund the institution. And so that's where the public private. Yeah, yeah. And again, we probably have a similar perception there. And obviously in comparison with some of the local public libraries, these are richly funded organizations, but there's always more that can be done and should be done. But eight months in, I'm sensing, even if we haven't met for six months, but even in that time, the magic of social media, I'm seeing things happening at Library of Congress that I don't think I'd have necessarily expected before whole festivals have voted to disco music, Gloria Bibliodisco Tech. There was a research component. It really was. There's always a research component, yeah. And we make sure that we do that. But there is a series because that comes from the collections. Collections and things that the library already does. Every year, the Library of Congress selects 25 films and 25 recordings to be put into a national registry for all time. It's like a stamp of approval. And several years ago, the library selected a song by a very popular lady, Ms. Gloria Gaynor. And the song was, I Will Survive. And it's become an anthem for anything, products. Well, when she was put on the registry, her sales revived. She just became quite the thing. And she wanted to help the Library of Congress because she was so grateful. And so she said she would do a free concert. And then we said, well, we have to tie this into what we do. So we exhibit. We had a workshop, Tim Gunn, who's a fashion expert on a show, came and talked about fashion of the disco era. And we brought out all of it. So we really made it. And then we had 1,200 people who would have had more. But that's the capacity. All shapes, sizes, colors, backgrounds, everything. Dancing to I Will Survive in the Central Hall. And it was quite something. Very good. I've heard rumors that the Librarian of Congress participated in it. Well, I did. I had a little moment. And what it showed, though, and we had all of the information about our services. And almost to a person, people were saying, I didn't know we could even come in here. I didn't know we could get a reader's card. I'll be back. And so we got all of their information, of course. And we started sending them information about our programming. So we followed it up with, there was Pride Week in DC. And we brought up our items from our collection. And you'll have seen our display here. Very similar that people hadn't seen it. And then there was a comic conference, comic books. And you have quite a few. We had the world's largest. We do have the world's largest collection of comic books. And we had displayed those wonderful items and had Ms. Linda Carter, who was the original Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman, who lives in a Washington area, a wonderful advocate for libraries and literacy. And she came and did a workshop. And it was really something. So there's a little buzz now about the Library Congress. And we're tweeting. We found actually those media feel very natural for organizations like that. And I think it is truthful to the collections because unlike some of the Grand Art museums, our collections touch on every conceivable aspect of human life, every bit of society, every voice. And it's about bringing that creativity and curatorial magic to make things happen. And we're seeing that happening now in your institution more and more. And one of my most rewarding moments in this kind of quick overview of the library and eight months and things came when a young staff member came up to me and said, you know, I use social media a lot. And I felt so proud when some of my friends and colleagues said, hey, the Library Congress is getting pretty cool. We're following you on Twitter. And I started that, though, because even though I'm a career librarian, I've known the Library Congress for years, I don't know everything in the Library Congress. And so after I walked off the stage from being sworn in in September, that's when the Twitter started. Because I said, I'm going on an adventure. I don't know all the 162 million items, but I'm going to try to find out. And that's when it started. So every day or so when I get to go and visit this department or that department or something happens, that's what we put up and then elated. And that's been a wonderful thing. And we believe, I don't want to make a detail here, but there's much debate about these new media formats as things you can collect themselves. And so I think Twitter itself is something that's now finding its way into the servers of the Library Congress. Several years ago, the Library of Congress, when it was apparent that this new form of communication was being used, I think it was the Arab Spring, that Twitter was used for communication and that the Library identified that as a potential area of research for scholars later, that how did this new medium inform and contribute to this social movement and what happened? And so there's now an archive of about 10 years in those early years that the Library is working with Twitter on to see how can you make it accessible to researchers and do that. So that's an ongoing project. And on the list of 300 things we should have been talking about, this is of great interest to us here as we begin to think about the challenge of preserving and collecting at least a fraction of this digital ocean that we live in. And one of the concerns that I know I'm hearing from historians and scholars and researchers is their concern that a lot of the things that researchers use to show progression, drafts of things, are not going to be available in this digital world. People are not preserving like we have the draft of the Declaration of Independence. Annotated by John Adams, the president that you have a building he was a ambassador here and Benjamin Franklin. But that draft is important because you can see where they took out the paragraph about slavery. And when you see the actual declaration, they took it out because they knew that the declaration would not have been passed if the slavery was too good. Then they said, we'll deal with that later, literally, and took it out. That's the concern of historians now. What is going to be the historical record now in the digital age as things are erased and refreshed and everything? How are we going to know how things develop? And it is a profound question. And that question around the digital age comes up sometimes from a different dimension. I was very surprised taking on this role. How many pretty educated people would say to me, oh, that's interesting you're doing that, really. But it's not really needed anymore, is it? Because we all have what was a library on our mobile phone now. So why on earth do you need these institutions and collections? Anyone you ever get that? Oh, all the time. And especially during budget hearings. Why are we investing, especially in libraries as physical places? Why are you putting on $100 million extension or renovating a library? Aren't libraries going out of business? I had one gentleman I was on a panel with. I was the only librarian. And so you know how they give the nice introduction. And this person in that. And they said, and she has this PhD in library science. And the guy leaned over to me and said, oh, here's my card. Libraries are going out of business. You might need this. Well, that's a good way to start a panel. But there is that public perception that library as place isn't going to be needed. We try and refute that on a daily basis. And just by the evidence, as we've invested more in digital, the more people seem to queue up to come through the door here. And I'll be interested to get your sense of that. We're certainly in times of need. And actually this very screen-based age is a collective time of need. There's something that libraries seem to answer to more strongly rather than less. But you need to, there's an art to making that work, I think. And seeing that play out right here. People are sitting next to each other. They aren't interacting. They each have their device. But there's something about being in a place with others, doing work, and what you have that we've had, we call it envy moments so many since we've been here. So we just, the one that really got us was how you have King George's library and this wonderful historic, these bindings and everything. And surrounding that are all of these people on devices and doing work and doing research. That's the epitome of it. Bus, coffee and doing, and just... No, we, I mean, this is... We feel that's something happening in real time that we're trying to enable and understand at the same time. And it is... And I think that this is where actually the seriousness and meaning encoded into institutions and buildings like yours as well actually comes back to life in a different way because when people feel very unrooted, they're drawn, I think, to communal public spaces that feel where you're designed for concentration. Communal, you can be sit side by side. They may not be interacting with each other, but I think they're quite powerfully recognizing each other's presence and the seriousness of their individual endeavor, if that makes sense. And that's where the safety and the comfort and being... And also the sense of continuity that when you say people, things are uncertain, but here you're surround, you're part of a longer human journey.  And people seem to find that comfort in that, they want that. And that's what we're all looking at and saying, as we develop spaces, different spaces in libraries that we accommodate that. Yes. And they're responding. And what about other people say that digital is weakening or loosening people's ability to concentrate or have extended study and attention span and so on? What's your observation as a librarian around that? A lot of it depends on the content of what they're looking at on the screen. Some of the researchers, for instance, a lady with the Ethiopian manuscripts, she had these 16th century manuscripts, beautiful illuminated manuscripts, and her laptop right there looking at the catalog of the materials and being able to bring up through the digital image close-ups of things. So that's where for researchers having the digitized aspect, they can examine it in a way that they couldn't and do that and manipulate. So sometimes it depends on that. Now, when you're reading novels, e-books on a plane, one, it's more convenient. You can go back, you can make the type bigger, which I like. You can do that. So different types of materials, you are having choices of which, so print materials, paperback books, are doing quite well. Yeah, I was with a publishing friend today and the whole book publishing industry 10 years ago thought they were looking into this, and it's not quite like that. History, we're all learning never to make too many predictions about any of this stuff, but at the moment, e-books we think are pretty much plateaued, very popular, but at a certain level. And I think others publishing experts here may know, but I think the last statistics I've seen is if you combine a somewhat declined print sales with digital sales on top, there are more books in fact being sold than ever before. And you have a choice now. You can take a paperback book on a beach or somewhere like that. You can give it to others. Book baskets, this is speaking from experience. You have a guest room or something. You have a lot of paperbacks that people can take. They have all kinds of exchanges or you could put something that you need for work on your iPad and you have a lot of modes of reading now. Underlying everything we've talked about is a principle about free access to information from a trustworthy source. And whether a library is a tiny street front or Library of Congress, there's a golden thread there. And I guess it's such a natural thought. We maybe take it for granted, but maybe in the age of free swirling digital media, I think it's dawned on us recently that it needs protecting and arguing for. Does that feel true to you? Yes, and it's one of the bedrock values in libraries that you are not making judgments about a person's information needs or what they're asking for. Though there are times we would love to know what you want the information for, especially some of the more interesting questions. But in library school... That is the cardinal rule that you only ask a person about why they want the information enough to help them get what they need. Just enough to satisfy their need. And the other part is that access and protecting a person's right to know is the phrase. You have a right to know. You have a right to also ask for information and not be judged by your interest because someone thinks you intend to do something just because you've asked for that information. And in these times, that's become a balance that we've had to work on. So, final question. On that point of principle, free information, are you feeling for this next generation of Library of Congress in America, people understand it, Congress understand the purpose? Because we sometimes feel we have to even explain the purpose of a national library here. Same sometimes in the States. Oh, yes. And especially when you think of the fact that some legislators, their only contact with a national library or parliamentary library is to serve in Library of Congress. That's one of our core missions. So, we're right there. So, we've been really working on making the connections to their communities and inviting them to be there when we livestream in that. So, they can see the impact in their local communities. And that has really been very helpful. And hence back to Full Circle, it's an American Library for them. We serve your legislators and they serve you. And it comes Full Circle. I think we're going to say you've been very generous with your time and thought, knowledge and experience. So, finally, could everyone please put together, hands together. Thanks. You've been listening to the British Library.


So, we're living as hypocrites. Let's say we're all living as hypocrites. We come here and we dress up and we're church people and we're Baptist. Look at my tie and my suit. I'm a Baptist and we preach the Bible and then we go and we practice none of it. And we practice none of it. So you say, why are the kids the ones that suffer from this? And I'm gonna explain it to you. I'm gonna give you an analogy. Imagine a guy who goes to work every day and he sells Chevrolets. This guy goes to work every day and all he does and he's the best salesman in the whole company. He goes and he can sell a Chevrolet like nobody else can sell a Chevrolet. He's got the look of an upright, upstanding salesman. He looks like someone who's trustworthy. He goes and he meets a customer and he tells you, he tells this customer from the core of his very being that this is the best vehicle made. It was designed by the best designers. It was, you know, don't chuckle, all right? But it was designed by the best designers. It was built by the best factories and the best people in the world. This is the best machine that can be purchased as far as an automobile goes. And he believes it from the core of his very being. I mean, somebody meets this guy and they're like, wow. This guy has sold me on this and he's the best salesman in the whole company. And then after work, he gets in his Ford and he drives home. He gets in a Ford and he drives home. Now, who would see the whole picture? He's the best salesman in the company. He's selling Chevys like nobody else has ever sold a Chevy before. But guess what? His family sees the whole picture. His family sees everything. That customer that comes to him, they just see that this guy like, this is amazing. This is the best vehicle ever because the guy believes it, he looks the part, he's doing it, but his family sees him get out of the Ford and sees him get in the Ford every single day. And they think, you know, look, the person he's selling to, it works. That's what I'm getting at. He sounds good, he's passionate, but his family sees the whole thing. His family sees the whole thing. They know who he really is, they know what he really believes. Are you following me? They see him need a new car. They see him need a new car because his old car is worn out and they see him go to the Ford dealership and get a new car. And then he goes and he sells Chevy's every day. They know at that sales job that he's just acting. Now this is a harmless example. Just now take the job and replace that with spiritual life.  They will think that this spiritual life is just acting, is a joke, is not real. I mean, what a terrible, because they see everything. Look, these kids, these kids are living with us.  And they also hear what's being preached at church three times a week. And if those two things, or if those two sides don't match up, you're gonna have problems.


You're welcome back. President Mohamed Abouhari laid concerns over the central bank of Nigeria, Kashwap and the Naira redesign project, promising Nigerians that the Apex Bank was doing everything necessary to ensure that their businesses are not hurt. Despite the unprecedented pressure being put on the president by some state governors, politicians and lawmakers, including the Speaker of the House of Representatives, who threatened to arrest the CBN governor, Godwin Mephile, the president promised Nigerians that the central bank, commercial banks and other stakeholders were doing everything necessary to ensure that the entire supply chain does not experience disruption arising from the currency swap policy. President Bouhari on Sunday in Daurak had seen a state approved a 10-day extension of the deadline for the swapping of the currency to new nodes. Now, we're being joined by Muiwa Dixon, who will be talking extensively about this. Good morning and welcome to the program, Muiwa. Good morning. Okay, we're just wondering, if Mephile has said that there's enough currency to go around, we are hearing this same thing just like it happened in the fuel, that there's enough fuel we are still having scarcity. And we're wondering, in the central bank of Nigeria, having printed all the money that we will need to swap, why do you think there's still a shortage of these new Naira nodes? I think one thing is very particular about Nigeria from time is the distance between policy making and fulfillment of manifestation of those policies. So most times when we talk about, when we do things in Nigeria, we talk more of records. So the CBMI said there are printed resources and so there should be that money everywhere. But when we look at, where does this money goes? Is it going to the bank or going to those people that are concerned? Because even as at this morning, I was at the bank with one of my workers and depositors don't know. So we're not able to even get the new nodes from the bank. Even the ATMs were not dispensing that it should be. So I believe it's between government policies making and the execution of those policies. There's always a very big gap when we look at it. What is the unique thing that we need to understand about this CBN's cashless policy by the way? Because some people are not even seeing the cashless policy. They are seeing politics inside whatever policy they have brought. Some people are thinking that it is a witch hunt on some politicians that might want to flaunt money at this election time. But the main thing, the main reason that was given to us was that CBN wants to implement a cashless policy and mop up the whole money that is in the hands of people and not in the banking bank vaults, so to speak. So help us understand some of the things that we need to know about this cashless policy of the CBN. Muyua, are you there? We seem to have lost connection with Muyua. As soon as he returns, we are going to continue with this topic. We're talking about CBN's cashless policy. But as we wait for the CBN's cashless policy discussion with Muyua, Bayo, you're still there, right? Maybe we'll just have a small revisit on what we discussed with Tunji earlier on about the BVAS. And he asked a critical question, which I'm also wondering now. Bayo, are you there? Yes, I'm here. This BVAS, okay, let me just give you a funny experience. At what point I lost about a 1,500 Naira on my BRT card, Kauri card. And when I asked them how that could happen, the only explanation they gave to me was that maybe at some point I was tapping the card and BRT was giving me opportunity to take a ride when there was no money in my card. And I couldn't wrap my head around it. I didn't understand it. But what I saw was that the people themselves did not even understand it in the first place. Now, a lot of questions come to mind when we talk about BVAS and the fact that there was overvoting. But let's leave the matter now. I understand that Muiwa is back. Muiwa, we're asking to understand what that unique thing about this CBN cashless policy is that we may not be understanding right now. Because a lot of people, like I said earlier, are just tying the money, the redesigning of the Naira nodes to politics. So help us understand what this cashless policy is. Yeah, the cashless one of the CBN is quite different from the political view of it. People are just thinking the redesigning of the Naira is the world's general election. But I believe it's something that should have been done even before now. Oftentimes cashless policy makes transactions easy. What I mean easy is that you don't have the fact of moving cash. And even from the time we've been doing cashless policies for a lot of things, let's look at major transactions. But we have to bring it to the market to human level, to the informal sector level. And I think that's what CBN is trying to achieve. Because in the formal sector, a lot of cashless transaction has been going on. But it is at the same time, the CBN wants us to take it down to the informal sector, which has been left out of the cashless policy for a long time. And this has been happening in a lot of countries. Let's take Kenya, for example. They've been achieving a lot when it comes to the era of cashless policy. So it's something that we need to do. It will be a good thing on the part of the government and even on the part of the citizens. So it's something that should go around. So I guess the CBN is trying to focus more on the informal sector to see how they can now bring them on board on the cashless policy affairs. Well, Bio, over to you. Yeah. The, the, this point you raised, we were very interesting because the central bank governor did mention that over a trillion Naira has now been brought into the banking system. And that there's still 900 billion outside of the system in their own estimation. And at the extension to the period within which we needed to exchange of your own Naira notes is actually to try to capture a part of all of the 900 billion that is still outside of the system. But what, what, what is interesting about this statement is that he mentioned that as an aside, he didn't really focus on that. He didn't really dwell on the achievements so far of this policy. Okay. We tonight might now make people to continue to think that it is rather targeted at politicians. You know, there's also the question of terrorism financing and those who have been kidnapping people and asking for ransom to be paid. And somebody was actually remarking to me yesterday that within this period, it did, it did appear as if kidnapping had reduced within this period of this exchange of your Naira for new notes. Do you think the CBN has articulated its message clearly to Nigerians? Has it been able to explain clearly why this policy has been done? And what does it need to do more within this period that is left to explain properly to people for if you think it doesn't explain properly. And if you think it has, I mean, it would be nice to have your perspective. I believe the CBN cashless policy is really working in the, especially in the area of insecurity, the kidnapping as well as we do. Though we still have even recently over the weekend, we still have some cases everywhere. And that will help a lot because if we look at what the CBN is doing in the area of bringing in the old notes, people are scared of taking their money from sources that are not genuine as scared of taking those monies to the bank. So I guess that has reduced a lot. And even Mamrebe and other sort of crimes that we used radically within the last two months, I agree with you quite on that. So the areas I think the CBN needs to do is in the area of network, the networking part of it needs to be improved. Like on Sunday, that was yesterday when everybody was going to bank and people were trying to do different forms of transaction. We noticed that the network was a bit jam-packed and we could not have, we just have jamming of network everyone there. Even the bank apps were not working as it should be. So that is where we need to prepare well for the cashless transaction because we are talking about a bulk of money, you are bringing in a lot of people on board. I'll tell you the cashless policy, this old notes we're designing has made a lot of people. You even look at some of our women, I believe when the CBN said we still have over 90 billion or so outside our year to be captured because we saw people bringing in cash, even some old women around because I deal with some informal services, the way they were bringing their cash to the bank, all they just want to do is please get this money to the bank. And a lot of people, you see people that are on bank. So that's why you even know that in this generation, there are some people selling and they are making good turnover, but they are yet to be banked. So those are areas that I think we need to improve on the network part of it. So that's one. Then other things we need to do is we also look at what are the fears of these people? Why are they not bringing their money to the bank? I think CBN also need to consider that apart from those that are getting their money from engineer news sources, but there are some people that are doing legitimate business that also want to bank. But let's look at what is happening all around us now. The inflation has affected a lot of goods. So those in the buyer and selling part, they get less than the profit they were getting before. So if you ask these people to bring their money to the bank, what they are complaining more is transaction charges. So okay, let me give you a scenario. In a shop where somebody sells a good for 10,000 Naira and it makes a profit of maybe 150 or 200 Naira. And when they make a transfer to that person, the bank deducts 15 Naira for stand duty, then even some other transaction, even when you are withdrawing the money you pay charges, at the end of the day, it's called a 200 Naira profit that has been reduced to 19 Naira, which can no longer fund the business. It goes on and on like that. So if we want everybody to join in this cashless for you, we have to look at the transaction charges. After networking, we have to look at this transaction charges. What does it cost these people? So a lot of people do not want to deal with the bank because they believe the bank is just out there to keep deducting their money. So those are the things we need to also share. So the issue of the network is a very good point. I mean all the points you made are very good points. I'm just wondering whether our network providers or the internet service providers, ISPs, whether they are on board on this because they are the ones actually who really have to now ensure that there's sufficient bandwidth that can accommodate all these new people that are coming into the network. If you remember during COVID, when we started having meetings online, many of the traditional online platforms for holding meetings were not sufficiently capable at the beginning. I don't want to mention names. They were not sufficiently capable because suddenly we had so many people coming into the network, so many meetings all over the world, but then later on this was corrected. But for the CBN cashless policy, it does not look like the internet service providers and other providers of network bandwidth have been carried along and I really don't know what can be done within this window that is left before it closes. We have maybe two weeks more, right, before it closes. Is that period sufficient to improve the bandwidth, the internet bandwidth, to be able to cope with this huge number of potential bankers, sorry, bank customers that are joining the system? The window is actually what the bank needs to improve is the banks themselves, they are not prepared for what is coming. The internet itself is ready, they have the bandwidth, especially where they have forges around to work, but you know, when you let's look at the capacity of the system itself, what can the bank hold onto like, okay, normally they have about let's say 20 million customers by their own average, they believe, okay, maybe every day you have about one million transactions on a half, so they are just prepared for that. So, but by the time a lot of people start logging in, trying to get information from the last site, it becomes a problem for them to handle. So they also, the banks, the banks also need to be prepared. And when we look at it, if for big transactions, you can look at the bank, I think that is the area where the banks are, this is a small concept, it's an internal system within the bank, they need to work more on it, then work more, okay, also with the network providers and how they can improve on the U.S.S.D., because it's easier, the people that does smaller transactions, the numbers, they are more than those that does bulk transactions. So for bulk transactions, they can which. So let's look at how can, okay, let's look at current, why we have so much attention on the new design, the new design is because even when we look at the current swell hike that is happening all around the country, you see that the cost of transportation and smaller units have gone up. So for example, a bus stop that has been maybe for example 100 nera has not gone to 200, 500, and that means you have to pay with denominations like 200, 500, and 1000. So there's more tension, there's more pressure on the notes that are higher than 100 nera. So imagine if I have to pay, possibly we have bus stops now that are about 1000, 1500. So if I have to pay now, then that means I have to use the notes that are equivalent in that to not make sense for me, even for the conductor that you are paying with 50, 50 nera, you want to pay about 1000 nera, like about 20 passengers to attend to at the same time, that's going to create a problem. So the current increase in swell hike is also part of those things that have contributed to it. So we should design a system, okay, how can we use VSSG to pay for buses? So when we start thinking like that, then we know we are approaching the cashless, because even transportation is things, if you look at the cash transaction that goes around transportation in a day, it's mushed. So we have to start thinking in that regard. So everybody concerned, even the CBN needs to look at how can the simplest process of this be brought into the cashless policy efficient that they are making. So let's look at, let's begin work towards how can we make people pay for bus fare using the cashless. If we start thinking that way, I think we have more idea of what is coming. Okay. All right. Mu Yua would like to say thank you to you for coming. Mu Yua Dixon is the GM, a key investment hub. Thank you so much for being a part of our program this morning. Thank you very much. It's a privilege for being part of the program this morning. Okay. Well, Bayo, we have a lot of things to discuss after the news, but right now let's just take that news break. And when we return, we'll look at some of the points that both Mu Yua and Tunji had made in the course of the show. Stay with us.