Starring Loretta Young in Children This Is Your Father, the story of a veteran's reunion with his wife and family after four years overseas separation. On the cavalcade of America sponsored by the DuPont Company, maker of better things for better living through chemistry. But first here is Gain Whitman. How's the weather in your neighborhood? The forecast is colder soon and that's one thing about the weather. You never know just how soon.  Go to your dealer or service station tomorrow for a checkup. Have rust and scale cleaned up with DuPont cooling system cleanser. Protect the system against leaks by pouring in a bottle of DuPont cooling system sealer. Then add a DuPont antifreeze, ZX, War Emergency Zero or Five Star. Each gives you double protection against freezing and against rust and corrosion. All of these car protection products are examples of DuPont's better things for better living through chemistry. The DuPont Company presents Children This Is Your Father, starring Loretta Young as Peggy Lester on the cavalcade of America. VE Day, BJ Day, Victory. Family men overseas disregarded the exuberant celebrations. To them victory was a big seven letter word that meant home. Home to families they'd left. Families like that of Lieutenant Sam Lester and his wife Peggy. A little cake. You mean may you Karen. Yes you may. Oh, you have another one. You're slim enough you can afford it. Oh thanks. And I can afford it too because I got my allotment checked today. What do you hear from Sam? Oh same old weather reports. My darling is such a lousy letter writer. I haven't the faintest idea what he's doing except that he's still in charge of that supply depot in France. Well, how do the children feel about him? I mean, do they remember him? Oh, Mickey does a teeny bit. But Karen not at all. She was just an infant when he left. No Sam's been away almost four years now. This is my daddy's picture. Yes, Karen, I know. He's very nice looking, isn't he? He's beautiful and he's very tall and very strong. And in the war he killed a thousand Germans all by himself and he got lots and lots of males from General Eisenhower. Karen, darling, imagination is a nice thing to have. But you mustn't let her run away with her, you know. Peg, beautiful room. Where did you ever find a decorator? I didn't. I painted it myself. Peg Lester, you did. I certainly did all by myself. Do you really like it? Why, it's wonderful, positively professional.  Well, as long as you said such very nice things about my paint job and seeing you're my very best friend, I'll let you in on a little secret. What? After wearing myself out, taking the paper off one complete wall, I discovered I could paint right over the paper. Not really. And you can't even tell. Oh, my, my, the wonders of science. Oh, they're guilty. Well, not the one who's barking. That's gorgeous. That's a family mutt. Well, no, gorgeous.  Yes, he is. I mean, isn't she? Mickey picked her up about two months ago and talked me into keeping her as a watchdog. Well, that's a good idea. Without a man in the house, you need one. Ellie, if a burglar came along, that dog would hurl herself at him. And lick his shoelaces and abject adoration.  It's shameless. Hey, mom. Ah, here is the master of the Leicester clan. Hello, Mickey. Hello, mom. You know what Buster Climb just told me about his father? You know what? He got a bullet in his leg in the purple horn in a silver star and it kind of be cleaned out of Nessa Jeffs and made a bunch of other Jeffs surrender. He got a silver star, mom. That's fine, Mickey. Gosh, Buster sure is lucky having a dad like that. Well, for goodness sake, your father's no slouch just because he's modest and doesn't make a lot of fuss about how many Germans surrendered to him or how he wiped out a pillbox. When? When did he write about a pillbox? During a battle? Which battle? Well, the battle of the bulge. That was the turning point of the whole European war. Oh, boy. When do I feel Buster? Oh, no, no. I mean, it's time for your milk, kids.  OK. I'll tell Buster later. Come on, Karen. Can you hear that, Karen? What mom just said about dad? Yeah, it's he. Oh, Peg. And you told Karen not to let her imagination run away with it. Oh, I know, Ellie, but I can't help it. I'm not going to let Mickey feel for a single instant that his father is any less heroic than anybody else's father. For goodness sake, if they'd given Sam combat duty like he wanted, he'd simply be covered with silver stars and oak leaf clusters and kisses from French generals. Well, I think it was very smart of the army not to let his experience in organization and supply go to waste. Oh, so do I. I'm pretty darn grateful, too. It is hard to make the children see that doing a necessary but unexciting job can be heroic, too. They go for the active stuff. And Sam didn't get a chance to kill Germans behind a desk in a supply depot. Well, I have to embroider a little. I know, of course. But Sam may find he has a lot to live up to when he comes home. When he comes home. Them mighty pretty words, Ellie. I suppose you've imagined his homecoming seen a dozen different ways, a hundred different ways. And each one was more dramatic and thrilling than the last. But I know how it'll really happen. One day, Sam will walk in the door and Karen will pipe up with mama. You can't be shooting right alongside of me.   You are not.   Oh, they are not. And besides, having to be a jab all the time, they give her an inferiority complex while you wouldn't want it. The funny smell coming from the laundry room. The laundry room. What about the iron? What did you do to it? Oh, my goodness. It's burned a hole right through the ironing board pad. Mickey, did you plug that iron in? Gosh, mom, I was only making believe I was in the engineers and looking up a dynamite charge. And well, I guess I just forgot to look at what are you trying to do? Mickey, burn the house down over our heads behind our backs.  Now, look at the ironing board. It's ruined and probably the iron, too. Mickey, I just have no choice in the matter. I have got to give you a whipping. Run away, Mickey. Run away and hide. Don't be a Jew. I'm not afraid. Come here, Mickey. Bend over.  It's going to hurt me more than it will you. California, that one's on the California, mama. Aren't you going to say hello? I suppose I'll have to. Well, get up, Mickey. But this is only a temporary reprieve. We'll pick up right where we left off. Hello. Yes, yes, this is Ms. Lester. Oh, telegram. Read it to me, please. Yes. Yes. Oh, I can't believe it. Are you sure that's what it said? Yes. Yes, thank you. Thank you a thousand times. It's not a morning on the 1043. Oh, my darling, this is so wonderful. It's just so wonderful to be true. Why are you crying? I don't know, honey. I guess because I'm so happy. Your father's coming home. And I'll never have to whip you again. Now, say it close to me, kids. We don't want to miss him, you know? Do you see him anywhere, mom? Do you see? No, not yet. There are just too many people in the way. Let me look at your hair's turned gray. Gosh, Pay, you look wonderful. Do I? And these are our kids. Yes, darling. Children, this is your father. Hello, Mickey. Hello. Hello, Karen. Aren't you going to say something to me? You're not as pretty as your picture.  Don't hang back. Sam, this will be the first time you've walked into our house in almost four years. I feel as if I ought to carry you over the threshold of something. That's a good idea. Oh, Sam, here, put me down. Say, who's that? My mom. Her name is Gorgeous. She'll probably cover you with kisses. She's a very affectionate type of animal. Well, hello, Gorgeous. Oh, for goodness sake, I've never seen her act like that before. Maybe she doesn't like me. Don't be silly, darling. And do put me down. Oh, OK, my lady.  Mickey, figure outside. OK, Mom. Come on, Gorgeous. Karen, you go on, too, dear. Yes, Mama. Yeah. Well, darling, what do you think of your children? Oh, you've done a swell job, big. They're wonderful. Oh, they have a wonderful father. I'm not so sure they think so. Oh, darling, they're just shy. Well, in a few hours, I won't be able to pry them off your lap with a crowbar. I hope you're right. Say, the house looked different. Why, you had it done over. Had it done over? Huh, I did it over myself. A little paint, a little chimp, send a lot of elbow grease. Peg, you're terrific. Oh, darling. When I went away, you couldn't park the car without smashing a fender. You couldn't put a nail in the wall without smashing a thumb, and well, now look at it.  Remember that temperamental furnace of ours? Well, I got it tamed and eating right out of my hands. Peg, honest to goodness, I don't think I'm needed here.  A what? A droon. It's a children's favorite word. It means a cross between a drip and a goon. Hmm. I'll have to remember that. No, thanks, Peg. Oh, for heaven's sake, kids, what's the matter? Cat got your tongue? Well, this morning, you had a hundred questions, you were going to ask your dad. Oh, it's all right, Peg. Leave him alone. Uh, dad? Yes, Mickey. Will you please pass the jargon, Maj? Certainly. The what? The derby nage, darling. That's the bread and jam spelled backwards. Mickey has a mania for pronouncing things backwards. Oh, oh, I get it. And here you are, uh, yekim. Pardon? Yekim. Mickey, spelled backwards. Oh, that's cute. Uh... Eh, eh. Something tells me I've just been a groom. Uh, no, darling, it's droon with a D. Mother, can I have some? What comes out with your name? Smoke. Your wish and my wish will never be broke. What in the name of colors? They're making a wish. Touch red, my wish will be stead. Touch green, my wish will be seen. Touch blue, my wish will come true. That, darling, is what happens in this house when two people say the same thing at the same time. Oh, I see. Well, Mickey, uh, what did you wish? I'm not allowed to tell. It won't come true then. I wish that Daddy would give us our souvenir, Karen. Well, honey, I will give them to you just as soon as my bags get here. What have you got for me? Well, let me see now. I think there's a pretty French doll for you. Oh, goodies. And for Mickey, a wristwatch. No German helmet or a bombshell?  Well, no, no. Gosh, did Gordon's dad brought him a German helmet? Unfortunately, I didn't come in contact with any armed Germans, so I could be... You didn't? Well, what about the time you wiped out that pillbox? I wiped out a pillbox? Sure, in the battle of the both.  Lunch was over, children. Go outside and play now. But, Mom, didn't you say that at once? Outside. Take gorgeous and lunch and run along now. Both of you. Come on. All right. But what good do wristwatches? You can get them here. Peg, just what did you tell them about me and a German pillbox? Nothing. Nothing at all, darling. Peg, I want to know. Oh, for goodness sake, dear. It was just a little bedtime story I made up. Well, you know you were the hero of all of our stories. But, Peg, that sort of thing is dangerous. Suppose a story like that got around?  I just told it to the children. Couldn't possibly go any further. I'll get it. Hello? Well, hello, Mr. Whitefield. Yes, it's true. He's back. Oh, it's just wonderful. Yes, of course. Hold on. Good morning, dear old boss. Oh, thanks. Hello, Mr. Whitefield. Just this morning. Great thing. What? Just a second, please. So the story couldn't possibly go any further. What do you mean? Whitefield wants me to come down to the office to show off my medals. He says it's all over town about me capturing a whole German regiment single-handed. You were listening to Loretta Young in the dramatic story, and this is your father. On the capital of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company, maker of better things for better living through chemistry. As the second half of our play opens, Lieutenant Sam Lester has returned home. He's having a little trouble explaining to the community about his pre-homecoming buildup. Now, listen, Mayor, I appreciate your phoning me. The sentiment is wonderful, but I tell you, I'm not a hero. No, no, I'm not being modest. All I did in this war was sit behind a desk in a supply depot in France. The only Germans I saw were prisoners. Oh, it's all an embarrassing figment of my son's imagination. Yes, I'm sorry, Mayor. Good day, sir. Daddy. In here, Karen. Daddy. Yes, dear. I think you're awful nice. You do? I like you very much. Well, that's just swell, honey. Can I have a nickel for ice cream? Sure, sure thing, baby. Here you are. Oh, thank you, Daddy. Sam, was that Karen who just went out? Yep, I gave her a nickel for ice cream. Oh, Sam, you shouldn't have. She only asked you because I refused. She's not allowed to have ice cream before supper. Oh, well, maybe you're too hot. Well, don't you be too easy. Children need discipline. And that reminds me, make it in the kitchen. And I want you to give him a good talking to. What about? He's been tinkering with the electrical appliances again. Oh, Sam, he's just got to stop behaving like a young Tom Edison II. I'll talk to him. Thank you, darling. And remember, be firm. I talked to Mickey. I heard you. Sam, you were about as firm as melted ice cream. Only a day before you came back, he burned out the iron, and I was all set to give him a whipping. Reasening with him is a much better way, Peg. He's given me his word that he won't go anywhere near those electrical gadgets again. Sam, darling, you're going to have to be so much more severe with the children. Well, I happen to think that kindness gets you first. Karen, what is it, darling? Poor baby, come here. Daddy will fix it for you.  That's how it is, Ellie. My kids don't like me. No, Sam. Peg's ashamed of me. Why, Sam? Well, why else did she make up stories about how I captured Germans and pillboxes and make a fool of me all over town? Sam, I know all about that. I was there when it happened. But Peg only made... I know, I know, for the kids. Why didn't you tell them the truth? There's nothing to hide.  How can I help it? Ever since I've been home, I felt as if I were outside looking in. Oh, if you could have seen the way they talked about you and missed you, and the way they carried on when they heard you were coming back... Well, the fact remains that everything seemed to go on very well without me. Apparently, much better. Sam Lester, you're talking through your hat. Why, the conversion that Peg had to make when you left was as painful as the reconversion is for you now. Oh, just be patient, Sam. Everything will fall into its right place again. I certainly hope so. Anybody home?  Well, somebody in the kitchen anyway. Oh, it's you, Mickey. Yeah! Mickey, what were you doing with that waffle iron? I was just making a little experiment. Mickey, you gave me your word that you wouldn't fiddle with the electrical gadgets. Well, I just wanted to see who'd make those same square dimples on cardboard. I didn't mean to break it.  Well, there's only one way left. No! I'm sorry, Mickey, but you asked for it. No! Let me go! It's almost eight o'clock. Mickey's never stayed out this late before. Not without telling me first. Oh, I can't imagine what's happened. Peg, I suppose I may as well tell you. When I came home this afternoon, I found Mickey fiddling with the waffle iron. Why is practically the most precious possession I... Oh, honestly, Sam, once and for all, that boy ought to be whipped. That's what I thought too. So I did it. You...  Yes. Oh, Sam, how could you? How could you lay a finger on him, your own flesh and blood? Oh, Sam, you never should have done it. But Peg, you yourself just said it. It doesn't matter what I just said. You never should have done it. Why, he hardly knows you. He doesn't like being whipped by a... by a stranger. Thank you. I'm glad to know how you feel about me. Oh, Sam, you don't know Mickey the way I do.  Where did you whip him? In the kitchen. Oh, my poor baby. His pride must be smarting all over. No, only on the proper place. He's run away. That's what's happened. He's run away from home. Sam, you got to call the police. Peg, for heaven's sake, do you want to wait, Karen? Well, we've got to do something. We can't just sit here while Mickey is running away in some dirty old bug scar. Sam, if you don't call the police, I will. If you do, I'm walking out of this house for good. Sam! I mean it, Peg. Either I'm the head of this house or you are.  Sam! It's up to you, Peg. Oh, all the police, but you'll be sorry when they bring home our eldest child, our only son. When they bring him here in a stretcher all limp and white and maybe... maybe even... Oh, my darling, I've been so worried about you. Oh, darling, I know why you did it. You can tell your mother everything. Mickey, dearest, where did you go? To the movies with Buster Klein. Didn't Mrs. Klein tell you? To the movies. It was a double horror film. Oh, Mickey. And I've been sitting here wearing myself into a pink fit. Peg, I told you there was nothing to worry about. Oh, gosh, then... Were you talking to me? Uh-huh. I said, are women silly? Oh. Well, uh, maybe they are. But next time you go away to the movies, you'd better get permission first. Okay, then. I don't want no more licking. Gosh, you certainly pack a mean while.  Oh, does it hurt, dear? Nah, I'm no buddy cop. Oh, what's the matter? Oh, it's all the noise.  Everything's all right, Karen, dear. Come on, honey. Mommy'll carry you back upstairs. No. I want Daddy to carry me. You do? I mean, few things, honey. Here we go. Well, what do you know? Hey, what comes out of the chimney? Smoke. Your wish and my wish will never be broke. Touch green. My wish will be seen. Touch green. My wish will be seen. Touch red. My wish will be said. Touch blue. My wish will come true. Touch blue? What the heck? My wish has come true. Oh, my God. Where Loretta Young will return in just a moment to our cavalcade microphone. Now, here is Gain Whitman. You climb into the old bus, load in the family, tell the man at the gasoline pump, fill her up, please, with a blissful sigh, and then the open road again. There were many times during the war when you wondered if that open road was still there. Well, there it is. Good gasoline, too. The motor purrs. You roll smoothly along. Paul is in the air. There are those leaves over there on the hill beginning to turn. If it isn't the leaves that are red and gold, it's the soft sunshine of fall, golden with just a little chill in the air. Just rolling along is wonderful. Just feeling the car respond to your touch is a thrill you've not had for a long time. Wait a minute, though. Two or three months ago, you weren't using your car so much, were you? Can you be sure it's in the best condition? How about the pre-war tire? How about that retread with the old tube and the forgotten patch? Too much speed or one bad bump can mean a blowout and tragedy. How about you, the driver? Maybe you're out of practice. Maybe you're judgment of speed and distance aren't as keen as they used to be. It takes time to learn to drive again in traffic. Now that you can roll into a service station and say, fill her up, it's a temptation to ride just for the fun of it. Everybody's doing it, but not everybody is driving carefully. Accidents are increasing. The man who forgets the painted line in the middle of the highway who passes on curves, who speeds and cuts in is a public menace. Drive wisely. Have your car checked for any mechanical weakness. Careful drivers generally take good care of the appearance of their cars, too. Scratches and dents in fenders mean not only bad appearance, but rust. Rust destroys metal. Take your car to the DuPont authorized refinisher near you. He's an expert in the use of DuCo and other DuPont finishes made especially to protect and beautify your car. And he has DuCo, which exactly matches the color of your automobile. Use DuPont number seven polish to remove traffic film quickly and easily and restore luster. Or use DuPont DuCo cleaner and then apply DuCo wax, which protects the finish from dirt, moisture, and the ultraviolet rays of the sun. It gives a clear, brilliant luster which lasts for months. And of course, protect your car against a freeze-up this winter with the DuPont antifreeze. All of these products for the protection of your car are DuPont better things for better living through chemistry. And now, here is the star of tonight's DuPont cavalcade, Loretta Young. With victory one, the National War Fund campaign needs our help no less. The need is just as great. Every dollar we contribute will do a three-way job, helping our armed forces, aiding our friends and allies overseas, and assisting neighbors in distress here at home. Now, many servicemen will not be so fortunate as Lieutenant Sam Lester in our story. Others will require financial assistance, hospital care, or vocational guidance. Our dimes and dollars will help many servicemen bridge the gap between GI and civilian life. The War Fund drive needs your contribution to carry on its worthy work in your own community.  Readjustment for Johnny is complicated by many problems, including the girl he left behind. Next week you will hear the sometimes tender, sometimes humorous story of a typical young American, and his future. When cavalcade presents, Johnny comes home. Our stars will be Robert Walker and Susan Peters. Don't forget to tune in next Monday at the same time to hear Robert Walker and Susan Peters in Johnny Comes Home. The music for tonight's DuPont cavalcade was composed and conducted by Robert Armbruster. Our play was written by Priscilla Kent. Loretta Young may currently be seen in the international picture production. Along came Jones. And tonight's cavalcade were Gail Gordon as Lieutenant Sam. Marlene Ames as Karen, and Tommy Bernard as Mickey. This is Tom Collins inviting you to listen next week to Robert Walker and Susan Peters in Johnny Comes Home on the cavalcade of America brought to you by the DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware. This is the National Broadcasting Company.


Roibos, or red tea, is anecdotally reported to aid stress-related symptoms. But has none of the mood-altering phytonutrients thought responsible for the increased calm and decreased stress after drinking green tea? So why do some people feel less stressed drinking red tea? Well, researchers recently found human adrenal gland cells in a Petri dish produce about four times fewer steroid hormones in the presence of red tea. Yes, this could quite possibly contribute to the alleviation of negative effects arising from elevated stress hormone levels, if it actually damped down adrenal function that much in real life. But the effect was so dramatic they became concerned. It might adversely affect the production of sex hormones as well, but that's not what they found when they tested it in human test subjects. The same may not be true, however, of nettle tea. The nettle is used to relieve symptoms of prostate enlargement by boosting estrogen levels, but men drinking too much may grow breasts, and women may start lactating. Nettles are often picked wild, so there's always a risk of someone might accidentally pick something like this instead of this and come down with atropine poisoning, because the nettle tea you thought you were drinking had some belladonna, deadly nightshade. Also, not a good idea to put the leaves in your mouth fresh. They don't call them stinging nettles for nothing. This is a close-up of the impalement of a nettle spicule in the skin, not something you want in your tongue. Nettle tea is touted for its high mineral content, which always seemed kind of strange to me. I mean, yes, if you boil dark green leafy vegetables long enough, dark green leafy leaves, you do lose minerals into the cooking water. But how many minerals could we be getting if we just steep some tea? We never knew, because they hadn't been tested until now. They compared the mineral content of nettle tea to chamomile tea, mint tea, St. John's wort, and sage. Nettle tea didn't seem to have much more than any of the others, but maybe they're all really high. Well, one cup of nettle tea does have the iron of a dried apricot. That's more than I expected. The zinc found in one pumpkin seed, one twentieth of a mushroom's worth of copper, but four peanuts worth of magnesium, and an entire fig's worth of calcium. I agree with the researchers that a cup of herbal tea may not be an important source of minerals, but it's not negligible. Greens are so packed with nutrition. They can benefit from just drinking some hot water they've been soaking in for a few minutes.


At some point, good. And welcome to the First Unitarian Society. My name is Kelly Crocker, and I'm one of the ministers here. Today, I'm joined by my colleague and our guest minister, the Reverend Jim Foddy. Thanks, Jim. And the worship team of Linda. What's up? Sure, Jim Foddy. Right? Yeah. And the worship team of Linda Warren, Drew Collins, Daniel Carnes, and Stephen Gregorius. At First Unitarian Society, we question boldly, listen humbly, grow spiritually, act courageously, and love unapologetically. If you're visiting us today, welcome. We're so very glad that you are with us. If you would like more information about First Unitarian Society, please stop by the welcome table located in the commons to your right next to the elevator. Karen Rose will be there and will look forward to greeting you. We also hope that you'll stay and join us for coffee hour immediately after service, also held in the commons. For those of you joining us virtually, welcome to you as well. We are glad that you are with us. We hope that you will take a moment to watch the announcement slides shown immediately after today's service to learn more about our upcoming programs and activities. And we have one special announcement this morning from Rudy Moore to share with you. I love you. I'm Rudy Moore, and this is Rosmore. And I've been teaching at FUS in the RE program since 1991. I took a 10-year hiatus, came back in 2004, and have been teaching every year since. I really enjoy it. I've been oscillating mostly between the coming of age class and exploring our origins. This coming year, I'll be teaching building bridges. What I get out of it is I love seeing the kids grow over the course of the year. I've always been amazed by the amount of material that they soak up, and this material is good. They've been working on the curriculum all the time that I've been involved, and it's not static. It changes year to year, but we are provided with a very simple to follow book that makes it easy for us to teach from it. The kids are great. The material is great. The co-teachers are excellent too, and it's fun to really discuss all of this stuff with your co-teachers and really kind of get a handle on some of the issues that we're teaching these kids. It's age-appropriate, so you're approaching like the exploring our origins from the point of view of a fourth grader. So for example, I get to be the first person that teaches them about fusion. And when they discuss the toolbox of faith part of exploring our origin, it's tools that fourth graders can use to address their current lives, not necessarily something that is esoteric. Finally, the staff. The staff are great. Leslie, Xan, they are wonderful at taking care of everything that you need in the classroom and being there when you need them. So I highly recommend it. If you're on the fence, come talk to me in person. I would love to convince you because teaching in these classes is really, really wonderful. Thank you. Oh, thank you to Rudy and Roz. And if you were motivated to find out more about teaching, both Leslie and Xan are here this morning. Most likely they will be either in the far end of the commons or out on the playground after service. And now I invite you to join me in a moment of silence as we center ourselves and bring ourselves fully into this time, joining together once again in community. Although there remains too much evidence of the world breaking apart at coastlines, congressional hearings and kitchen tables, inside the quiet places of your heart and mine, there resides still the seeds, the longing to return to this knowing that we belong to each other, this earth, this life. To remember ourselves and all of our lost pieces, beloved in ways that cannot be undone. To dwell here in this healing, this hope, this wholeness is our practice of resistance. Even in rage, we refuse to relinquish gratitude or joy. Come, let us worship together. And we invite you now to rise in all the ways we do, joining together in our words of affirmation as we light our chalice. We light our flaming chalice each week with a simple spark to make holy our time together. With this flame, may our highest intentions be refreshed. With this flame, may we remember who we are and whose we are. With this flame, may our faith be renewed and reignited to guide our journey. And now let us join in singing together hymn number 108 in the great hymnal, my life flows on an endless song.  Fancy meeting you here. It's called When Desmond Gets Free. And this is a new one for me. Reverend Jim suggested it for our service today. And on the front page, it says that this book is dedicated to all those who are working to build a new world of justice, equity, and compassion. So before we hear the story, I am wondering if any of you have an idea about how we do that. How do we build a world of justice, equity, and compassion? Any ideas? Grown-ups, please participate. Yeah, Reverend Suzelle, who is with us this morning and I'm just gonna name it because I'm excited. You know how helpful it is to have a UU minister plant in the congregation on Sunday morning? Like, it's the best, right, Jim? Like, yes, did you all hear, Suzelle? One of the ways is to make friends with people. Thanks, Thea, people who seem like us and people who do not. Any other, yeah, Michael. Pay attention for opportunities. To do the right thing, you will find them. Thank you. All right, let's see what happens with Desmond here. Desmond the mouse lived in the most beautiful meadow in all the land. Every morning, Desmond woke with the sunrise and would spend the day playing in the meadow. And every evening, Desmond would go to sleep in the middle of that meadow under the beautiful starry sky. One night though, Desmond awoke when it was still dark. He tried to roll over to a more comfortable spot, but something wasn't right. Can you see what's not right? What's wrong with Desmond, hmm? Yeah, what's happening with his tail? Something big and heavy was right on top of his tail and it was beginning to throb with pain. He felt behind him and there was this huge boulder that seemed to have somehow fallen in the middle of the meadow right on his tail. So Desmond pushed on the boulder and tugged on his tail. He pushed harder on the boulder and tugged harder on his tail, pushed and tugged and pushed and tugged, but it was no use. When he was out of breath and had just about given up, he saw a giraffe nearby in the grass. Oh, good news, he thought. Oh, giraffe, he cried. Could you please push this boulder a few inches in the other direction so that I can go free? The giraffe looked at Desmond and laughed the way giraffes do. How do you think that is? I have no, how do you laugh the way giraffes do? Did you hear Mike? Oh, it needs to be lower, Mike. Can you? Ah! That's great. The giraffe laughed and said, you silly mouse, that's no boulder. That is an elephant that has fallen asleep on your tail. You could maybe wake the elephant and ask him to roll over a couple of inches? I could go free. Well, replied the giraffe, you know what they say about letting sleeping elephants lie. I find it's best to not get involved in other animals' business. I find it best to remain neutral in times like this. Desmond quietly replied, well, I do not appreciate your neutrality. The giraffe wandered off and Desmond tried calling out to the elephant to wake him up, but those giant ears were really far away on the other side of that giant elephant body. So again, Desmond pushed on the elephant and tugged on his tail, pushed and tugged and pushed and tugged, but it was no use. When he was out of breath and had just about given up again, a gazelle wandered by. Oh, gazelle! It seems that an elephant has fallen asleep on my tail in the middle of this meadow. I am stuck and it hurts. I wonder if you could gently wake him up and ask him to roll over just a few inches so I might go free? Well, said the gazelle. What do you think the gazelle said? No, it is an elephant, but that's a good guess. The gazelle said, I see your problem. You know what they say about letting sleeping elephants lie. I find it's best not to get involved in another animal's business. I think I'll remain neutral. Desmond replied, but almost to himself this time, I do not appreciate your neutrality. So Desmond tried again to call out to the elephant. He tried again to push the giant animal away. He tried it again and again to get his little tail free, but it was no use. When he was out of breath and just about given up for the last time, he saw another mouse wandering through the meadow. My name is Nelson. Hi, Nelson. This giant elephant has fallen asleep just on my tail. I wonder if you might run over to the front of the elephant and call out into his giant ear and ask him to roll over a few inches in the other direction? Desmond asked. Of course, said Nelson. So Nelson ran all the way up to the other end of that giant elephant body. He called up to those giant elephant ears at the top of that giant elephant head, but the elephant didn't budge. The elephant heard a small voice really far away, but he was really comfortable. He didn't want to move. So Nelson ran back to Desmond a little out of breath and he said, I have an idea. Don't move, stay right here. Okay, said Desmond. And a little while later, here comes Nelson through the tall grass and he wasn't alone. Nelson found three other mouse friends to help him and each one of them brought another three friends. And the whole group of them ran over to the giant head of that giant elephant. One mouse scrambled up onto the shoulders of another and another mouse scrambled up on her shoulders and then another after another. They climbed up until the whole group of them formed a mouse ladder right up the side of the elephant. And at last, Nelson climbed up the shoulders of his mouse friends one on top of the other until he was way up on top of that giant elephant head right next to the giant elephant ear. Excuse me. He called right out into the ear. It seems that you've fallen asleep on my friend's tail in the middle of this meadow. Could you just roll over a few inches in the other direction so he could go free? The giant elephant made a low groan. Can you groan like an elephant? I am comfortable right where I am. Go away. So Nelson asked more of his mouse friends to climb up and one by one they helped each other up the side of the elephant and one by one they all called out into that giant elephant ear on top of that giant elephant head. And again, the giant elephant made a low groan. Grrr, I am comfortable. Go away. Then Nelson had an idea. He whispered to the mice and all at once they yelled together, excuse us. It seems that you've fallen asleep on our friend's tail in the middle of this meadow. Roll over. And this time all those voices together right next to the elephant's ear were too loud to ignore. I was comfortable where I was, but I will move over if you just agree to stop making such a racket, the elephant cried. And then the elephant rolled over just a few inches in the other direction. Nelson and the other mice helped each other climb back down and Desmond was finally free. Desmond and Nelson and all their mouse friends spent the rest of that beautiful day playing in the middle of that beautiful meadow. So what do you think? Now what do you think about justice, equity, and compassion? Did you learn anything from what would you say? Who acted with compassion in the story? The mouse, right? Nelson and all the friends and what did they do? They helped collect it. OK, here's Mike's really big words of the day. Collective action. Did it work when one mouse was yelling alone? No. Did it work when all the mice yelled together? Yes. That's what will do it. And that's one of the beautiful things about what we do here. We all come together to do more than we could alone. All right, you all, thanks for help with this story. We are going to sing you out to go have some fun. World's so bright, and you can turn the day from and share your gifts. I invite you into this time of giving and receiving, where we give freely and generously to this offering, which supports the ongoing work of our community. You'll see on your screen that you can donate directly from our website, fussmedicine.org. You'll see the text to give information there as well. And baskets are being passed for those of us here in the room. We thank you for your generosity and for your faith in this life we create together. So before I start, here's something I just wanted to mention. I served for eight years at the First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis. I just finished a short-term gig at the First Unitarian Society of Milwaukee. And I want to apologize in advance if I get your last name wrong this morning. I also want to give a big thank you to Kelly A.J. and Kelly C. for inviting me to speak here today. As some of you may have seen in my bio, I got my undergrad at UW-Madison. But I had never been in this building until about an hour ago. So it's pretty exciting to finally be here in this beautiful space in this city that has had a huge role in shaping the story of my life. I'm also thankful to you because whenever I give a talk about something like death or grief or authoritarianism, I feel deeply grateful toward anyone who knows the title in advance and still shows up. Cheer any on a beautiful day. Why not, right? I'm truly glad that you are here. I've been giving presentations and Sunday reflections about rising authoritarianism since the summer of 2016. And I've been surprised how thankful people have been to me for bringing the topic up, for naming what was and still is going on, for affirming their sense that our democracy and civic institutions are at risk. Seven years on, things are still not well, but the picture is less dire and more mixed than many of us were expecting. And awareness of what's happening is much broader than it was when all this started. And talking about it has value. It can help those who have been paying attention to feel a bit less alone in their concerns. And talking about it can help us figure out together what we can do. And a congregation is a good place to have this conversation.  To look at big questions together about life and power and oppression. To examine questions through the lens of our most deeply held values. And to seek and hold the answers in community where we can find support and figure out actions to take to bring about the world we wish to see. And Wisconsin is a good place to have this kind of conversation. You all have been involuntary participants in a 13 year experiment to permanently establish authoritarian rule across all three branches of government with increasing restrictions on voting and a not at all representative legislature. The people of Wisconsin are a complicated mix, as many of us know from our own families. There are those who adhere to the conspiracy theories about stolen elections and woke takeovers. And these folks might actually welcome an autocratic ruler. They would rather be ruled than led. At the same time, there are so many of us who believe in secular government and fair electoral maps, the rainbow of human diversity, women's bodily autonomy, and the common good. It's a complicated mix here in Wisconsin. And throughout this trying time with authoritarian maneuvers finding some success at the state and local levels, daily life has gone on as normal for most people. Offering a veneer of normalcy is while the foundations of democracy are being eroded is a tactic straight out of the authoritarian playbook. There are of course countless crises a minister could choose to focus on, but to my mind, very little else will matter if we become more of an authoritarian country. Every one of our UU principles has been under siege from the inherent dignity of all people, to the use of the democratic process, to the interdependent web of life that sustains us. And the values highlighted in the proposed revisions of our UU bylaws, values such as pluralism, equity, and justice, these would be difficult to live out in a less free society. Before I go on, let's go over a few definitions. I know some of these phrases are increasingly familiar in everyday language, and I suspect this congregation has a higher than average percentage of polypsi majors, who will correct me afterwards, I'm sure, but let me just do a quick review. The first word I'd like to define is authoritarianism itself. Put simply, authoritarianism is a system in which the authority, the power in a nation, lies with an individual leader, one person, rather than any constitution or laws. The rules exist within the ruler's mind and can change at the ruler's whim. There are no checks and balances in authoritarianism. The courts and the legislative branch are neutralized to be in lockstep with the leader, or they are eliminated altogether. The executive role does not adhere to boundaries and its power is constantly expanded until the leader becomes a dictator or an autocrat. Nationalism is another word we're hearing a lot lately, and I have found this definition from Ronald Tiersky of Amherst College to be helpful. Nationalism is patriotism transformed into a sentiment of superiority and aggression toward other countries. Nationalism is the poisonous idea that one's country is superior to someone else's. Nationalism is intrinsically a cause of war and imperialism. Then there's white Christian nationalism, which adds another couple of layers to all this. White Christian nationalism is the idea that this country, our country, was created by and exists to benefit a certain class of white Christians who not only believe themselves superior, but also believe that God finds them superior. They're the supreme group in a supreme country with all the disregard and danger that comes with such attitudes. Another term that's in the news is fascism. And fascism is authoritarian nationalism. Under fascism you have an autocrat who believes in the cultural superiority and the political supremacy of the country he leads. You'll notice I'm using he because it's a he usually, right? And he believes in the use of his concentrated power and in unlimited violence, unlimited violence to uphold the country's supremacy and to uphold its purity against perceived internal and external threats. In 1930s Germany, the made up internal threat was the Jewish community. Right now in our own country, trans folk are the made up threat of choice. It is no accident that the percentage of Jews in Germany in 1933 and the percentage of trans identified adults in the US right now is identical, nearly identical. The strategy of demonizing a tiny, often misunderstood minority and using religion to do so is another tactic right out of the authoritarian playbook. Tyrants always punch down for political gain. One more term to add to the pile of long words and phrases, authoritarian capitalism. I mentioned this because for a long time there seemed to be an American belief that the arrival of capitalism in a nation would lead to more democratic societies. As it turns out, many Western based corporations love authoritarian countries like China with its huge, extremely unfree workforce who work at low cost. From slavery to sweatshops, captive labor is a tradition that some kinds of capitalism just can't quit. So history has generally not been kind to congregations and ministers and everyday people who have faced authoritarianism and fascism. First there tends to be complacency, then looking away, then desensitization and then voluntary or forced collaboration. All these things have tended to happen in reliable succession in countries that have gone authoritarian. But the present day United States has some advantages that may have made authoritarianism less of a slam dunk here. We have a diverse population. We don't have one dominant church. We have still independent struggling but still independent journalism. And we have strong civil institutions. So with autocratic and theocratic leaders taking brutal aim at these strengths every day, it's still important for each of us to remain vigilant. The rapid flow of news events can make us forget that a lot of what we are actually seeing isn't new. In the words of Adrian Marie Brown, the African American author and activist, things are not getting worse. They are getting uncovered. We must hold each other tight and continue to pull back the veil. The underlying American values that are allowing current events to go on as they are going are the same values that have existed for a very long time. The storyline of domination, of the powerful taking what and who they want is a main storyline of how our country was founded, built and expanded. And that storyline continues to this day. So it's both painful and beneficial that things are getting uncovered. Americans with authoritarian tendencies have always been with us and are likely to always be with us. Globally and nationally, authoritarian citizens can be found across the political spectrum. Autocracy might seem to lean right as it has in recent years in Hungary and India and Brazil, but there are also left-leaning people who would welcome and have welcomed a dictator who thinks like they do. Maybe some of you've heard of this, but there's actually a simple test that can predict whether an individual is likely to favor authoritarianism. This test was developed in the early 1990s by a professor named Stanley Feldman. It's four short either or questions about parenting. Parenting, not politics, because researchers discovered that authoritarianism is actually more related to personality than to political preferences. I will read these and you can take the quiz yourself if you like, and then in coffee hour we can find out who's an authoritarian. Please tell me which one of the two choices you think is more important for a child. To have independence or to have respect for elders. To have obedience or self-reliance. To be considerate or to be well-behaved. To have curiosity or good manners. These simple questions have turned out to be remarkably good at predicting authoritarian tendencies, and they've been used in research ever since. The respondents who choose the more hierarchical rule-oriented answers, obedience over self-reliance, good manners over curiosity, these people are more likely to be authoritarian. And because parenting perspectives are passed down in families for generations starting at birth, you can see why this kind of thinking might be challenging to dislodge. And it might be immune to political arguments entirely. It's a primal way of knowing the world. An estimated 30 to 40% of Americans have authoritarian tendencies. And as is obvious from current events from small town school board meetings to the United States Supreme Court, the presence of those tendencies is going to be with us for a while.  But I know that realization, that change for me is a sign of the privilege I have enjoyed prior to the events of the past several years. I will never forget the sentiment, the words of welcome if you will, that a black social media commentator who now goes by the handle absurdist words offered to white people late in 2016. I didn't find these words absurd at all. That feeling you have right now, amazement that the country could be so short-sighted that it could embrace hate so tightly, welcome. This despair, this dread you feel, the indignation, the bewilderment, the hurt, the powerlessness, the fear for family and livelihood, welcome. That knot in your stomach, the feeling of heartache, that uncertainty about your safety, the deep sense of fundamental injustice, welcome. He goes on to say, I do not say this to diminish what you feel today. What you feel is real and valid. I'm giving you the opportunity to truly empathize, for it is the lack of empathy that allowed America to shrug as the marginalized shouted warnings. I've read similar thoughts from other African Americans and from Native Americans.  So there are plenty of people in America who have felt powerlessness, who have had to learn resilience and resistance, who have planted a garden in the backyard when it wasn't safe to sit on the front porch, who have had to acessously work for their freedom. What has been happening to America as a whole has always been happening to some of its people. American authoritarianism wasn't invented a few years ago. It was revealed anew. So what do we do with this chronic illness our country has? How do we deal with the flare ups and the uncertain outlook? How do we live lives of resistance? There may not be a cure for America's authoritarian streak, but there are tactics and strategies and resources and plenty of evidence of what works. One piece of advice I've already demonstrated is to listen to people of color. This is something that is happening across Unitarian Universalism by forming social justice partnerships in our local communities, by centering stories of the marginalized, and by following the leadership of our BIPOC members. Outside our UU movement, we can see around our country how people of color, often younger people of color, are making bold statements resisting the forces of authoritarianism. I think of the two Justins in Tennessee who became instantly famous this past spring, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson. Both under 30, they helped to lead protests against the needless carnage of gun violence, and then they were expelled from their seats in the Tennessee legislature. As you probably know, they were propelled right back in office to keep fighting the tyranny of their gerrymandered one-party state. And shortly after on a Sunday morning, Mr. Pearson, the son of a pastor, was the featured speaker at the Church of the River, Memphis's main UU congregation, in a profoundly moving and raucous two-hour service that I recommend listening to on the internet. This was a great example of a more privileged church making space for and amplifying voices that are frequently marginalized. Good things happen when people unite across religions to resist tyranny. And an important message that's been underscored the past few months is that it's not too late. It is not too late to resist tyranny. It's not too late for the people of Tennessee to fight for laws that reflect their values. It's not too late to protect your local school board or library board from a white Christian nationalist agenda. This is when my mom's full-time job lately, by the way, saving my hometown from wackos.  It is not too late. And there's a role for everyone. Some people may not think of themselves as activists, but being a citizen, being a human, comes with obligations to fellow humans and to the whole world. Your neutrality will not be appreciated. There are macro things you can do like participate in electoral campaigns that speak to your values or work as a poll worker or an election judge to keep the machinery of democracy moving. As frustrating and constraining as they can be, elections still have huge consequences as this state knows. You can also take part in protests, particularly well-organized tactical ones that are led by marginalized groups and have specific goals around turnout and visibility. Another option for resistance is what Adrienne Marie Brown describes as a small resistance. She writes this, when those with power are doing inhumane or anti-planet things, our choice is to be disruptive. Our choice is to be impolite and it's one of the ways we rage small resistance that can become mass resistance and large-scale cultural and political transformation. She says, we have learned this from ancestors in our lineages who helped expose and break massive systems like chattel slavery or Holocaust genocide. She says this, small resistance these days looks like turning people who are supporting and promoting racist, transphobic, and inhumane policies away from our door. It looks like stopping next to police cars that have pulled people over and watching or filming them until the person's stopped is allowed to leave. It looks like naming isms and phobias in real time and learning together. It looks like local and local direct actions at the homes of Congress people who make decisions that harm humans or the planet. In addition to Adrienne Marie Brown's advice, there are even smaller forms of resistance that involve only yourself, like being well-informed about current events and about the history of oppressions and authoritarianism. If you haven't already watched it, I highly recommend the Reverend Cecilia Kingman's Barry Street essay about fascism which was delivered last month at the beginning of this year's UU General Assembly. Just Google Cecilia and Fascism, you'll probably find it. Another important form of resistance is to make sure that you do not accept the normalization of anything that diminishes human flourishing such as mass shootings or laws against trans people or laws against women. Followers of the authoritarian playbook love this kind of normalization. They want you to feel confused, bombarded, and hopeless that things just have to be this way. It's actually a strategy they employ, wearing people out. Your internal resistance is important so they don't succeed.  So be sure to take breaks from the news and from the work of justice. This can be hard for some people to do given the scope of the challenges. And it can be especially hard to do if you like to help with campaigns here in Wisconsin where you all seem to have a new election cycle every 10 minutes. So take the advice of Trisha Hersey, the self-appointed nap bishop who literally wrote a book on this topic called Rest is Resistance, a manifesto. Saying no and holding boundaries is important, she says, adding to me, that's justice, that's liberation, that is freedom. So budget your time and energy for the long haul. Before I close, I wanna talk a bit about hope because when we're talking about the long haul work of resisting tyranny, it can be helpful to remember the work of Joanna Macy who wrote a book that some of you may have read called Active Hope. She defines hope not as something you feel but as something you do. Active Hope is a practice, she writes, like Tai Chi or gardening, it is something we do rather than have. She advises us to de-center our feelings and center our intent. Since Active Hope doesn't require our optimism, she says, we can apply it even in areas where we feel hopeless. The guiding impetus is intention. We choose what we aim to bring about, act for or express. Rather than weighing our chances and proceeding only when we feel hopeful, we focus on our intention and let it be our guide. So as we continue our work to resist authoritarianism for the good of our country and everyone in it, may our intentions be our guide. May love be our guide. May we stay at each other's sides, take care of the vulnerable and listen to the wisdom that is all around us. Together, forward is the way. May it be so and amen. We gather each week carrying with us the joys, the losses, the celebrations and the sorrows of our days. We bring them here knowing they are held in love and in support. We light a candle of joy and celebration for Janet Swanson and Rob Gerke on the birth of their granddaughter, Madeline Elizabeth Nordenberg, born June 23rd to parents Peter and Lindsay. Welcome to the world, Maddie. We're so glad you are here. And we light a candle of continued healing and gratitude for Pat Egan, who is home from rehab. We're thrilled to hear that news, thrilled to have Pat here with us this morning and we continue to send our love and support to Pat and Lloyd. We light a candle of ongoing care and prayers for healing for Andy Combs, brother-in-law of Mary Kessler. We send our love and strength to Mary, her sister Cindy and to Andy as he continues to recover from multiple brain surgeries. And we light a candle to mourn the violence in our world, here in our own nation and around the globe. We know there are never enough candles to symbolize the pain, hold the anger and cradle the tears. May this light fuel our passion for change and our hunger for justice. And I invite you now to join me in a moment of prayer and meditation with these words from Edward Atkinson. In this time of quiet, may we find a stillness. May we seek to know more deeply what it means to love one another. We know so well our own needs. We know that we ourselves need understanding, affection, recognition. Why is it then that so often we hesitate to extend these precious gifts to another? The cost of a kind word is small. The moment that it takes to listen could hardly be better used. A gesture of forgiveness can mark a new beginning. An embrace or a word of appreciation can convey crucial encouragement and comfort. And yet so often we fail to live by the sacred command that we should love one another. Oh, spirit of life and of love. Strengthen our faith. Increase our resolve to give more generously of ourselves. We pray for the courage to take the risk of love. We pray for the insight to see ourselves and others in perspective. We pray for humility and understanding that we may always stand ready to forgive and begin anew. Blessed be and amen. Spirit to sing together our closing hymn and the great hymn number 151, excuse me, 159. This is my song. Water's dry souls, men's broken hearts, refuses to be terrorized, seeks this world's beauty and carries us through its storms. Blessed be, go in peace and please be seated for the postlude.


I'm Jay Fiedel. It's a Monday morning. We are joined by Dean Neubauer and he is emeritus at political science at UH but has at many years in education as well as political science and spent a lot of time in the in the Orient in Asia. I wish I'd spent as much time as he has there. So you take those two things and he's a perfect guest for today's show. Today's show is all about how education maybe could fix some of the problems we have seen in democracy over the past few years. Welcome to the show, Dean. Thank you. Pleased to be here. You must have thought about this as you see, you know, on our democracy unravel.  You know, you make certain assumptions about the quality of our democracy and how important it is for, you know, for the quality of civic life, if you will. And we have lost that in so many ways over the past few years. And I wonder if you could comment on, you know, the state of our democracy for one thing. From the eyes of a political science professor, educator, how does it look? Well, you know, as I started to think about this, I wish we had a semester. True. I started a couple of days ago an exercise after you asked me to do this, an exercise, which I made some notes about the subject matter as you had laid it out. And every one of those terms exploded on me. Higher education, better democracy, etc. And that is part of the issue and part of the reality here, because it is not as if democracy is a thing. It both is and isn't. It is an extraordinarily complex process in which, and by now, in this case, millions of people participate with vastly different understandings of what it is that the thing is what their role is, what they're doing, etc., etc. Similarly, with the way you phrase this about better education, I got into a bit of a thought pattern about what constitutes better education and is better education that which we do at the most expensive schools. Some would have you believe that. But is better education what comes out when we test people and those who test the highest say they have the better education, etc., etc. And then flip around once again to let me share just a very brief part of my background. When I was getting my doctoral degree, I went to study under a person who was then very famous in American political science, Robert Dahl. And I chose as my dissertation subject, essentially, can you measure democracy? And I invented some scales for that and then later wrote some some articles that I published. And they were very, very interesting from several perspectives. One is that I was astonished at what you could see if you got the right indicators. And then when I published, I was really impressed with the people who wrote back to me with critiques about what I was doing. And the critiques essentially said, as we say in much of social life, what you see is where you look. So that's the way it is with democracy. What you see is where you look. Just one more thing as a pre-factory remark, and then we'll turn this around a little bit. As you indicate, I've been working in higher education for the last several years, particularly in Asia. And one of the phenomena that has occurred over the last 15 years is the passion throughout the world, but especially in Asia, to do with higher education, what I was doing with democracy, which is in essence to create a scale, to create a ranking, to be able to say this thing is more democratic than that thing. Only now we're doing it with higher education. And so who's got the highest, who's got the best rankings? And the presumption is because the notion is that the scales are good, that the highest ranking means you're the best. Well, it is a signal and important that this was an informal process run in the United States and in Britain largely for about 35 years and didn't really have much effect. It took off in Asia at the shortly after the turn of the century, went into a university in Shanghai, created rankings for Asian universities. And then that phenomenon came to have a life of its own. And part of the life is that you, it's like a recipe, a ranking is like a recipe. The recipe tells you what ingredients you need. The rankings are all about what the indicators are. So in this instance, it turns out that the indicators are vastly biased in the direction of research. And that works for these Asian societies largely because that's where they are. They are trying to gain status in the world. They're trying to infuse their social economic systems, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But what does that say about the goodness as it were of the education? And we're back into this business now about what the indicators are. So they're essentially saying that the more better research you do, the better university you are. And then we see how circular that becomes. So as I was thinking about the subject matter, you've chosen for today, once again, every single one of those terms has this capability. Does better education tell us how to improve democracy? What do we mean by better education? What do we mean by by democracy? And by all means, what do we mean by better? So I wish there were, for me at least, a more simple way to think about this. But I think in reality, there is not. And let me just put one more frame on this and then we can open the discussion. I think what democracies have become throughout the world in all the different forms that they have are inseparable from their institutional manifestations. Now that sounds like political science talk. But what I mean by that is that the the institutions by which a democratic society expresses itself is what it means in the world. And those historically, as we know, have been legislatures and executives and judiciaries. And then as the world became increasingly complex, particularly with the Industrial Revolution and the end of the 19th century, we saw that the administrative component, the bureaucracies, as you were, become equally or even more important because that's where the stuff gets done. And then, etc. And then the most recent revolution and the one that we've only begun to talk about, although we all, when we talk about it, report to be experts about it, is the incredible extent to which social media has changed the world in which we live. So if one wanted to have a serious conversation in the way that you've laid it out in the topic, a better education for our social outcomes as it were, one would have to put first and foremost in that this thing about which we know so much and yet so little. And that's the degree to which social media is changing the world that the way we see the world experience the world. And here's the important part, make judgments about the world. And certainly we saw that in the election. We've seen that in the post-election shenanigans, etc. So I'm afraid, for me, the way that you phrase the question doesn't admit to any easy answers, although goodness only knows it certainly creates the basis for a political science course at any level. Okay, I'll give you my reactions on sort of Gestalt reactions on that. Number one, my reaction is that education in this country anyway has changed and the goals of it, the mechanics of it, the institution of it, the business of it has changed and not for the better, not when you're talking about building citizens. And I imagine if you looked at the classroom in Illinois, when Abe Lincoln went to school, a lot of it was dedicated to building citizens. It was civics. It was how to relate to the government and the people in the social compact to make them useful citizens. And I think somewhere along the line, we forgot about that probably because the world got much more complex. And we forgot our standards and our original mission in American education. So now what you have is that you described it. It's a business. It's very expensive. It's measured on things perhaps that really don't count if you're trying to keep the country together, those civics things, those citizenship things. And it's nobody's fault except we really weren't watching the story. We weren't realizing the implications of losing our ability to relate to the government, to understand the government, to be part of the government. That's one thing. And then the other side of it is, of course, the political science side. And it goes to the same point, I think, namely that we have forgotten about being part of the government. There's a disconnect between the citizen such as he is or she is and the government. The citizen may pay taxes, but he may try to gain the system. The citizen has no particular loyalty to trying to make it a better country for everyone. And although there are some people that feel that way, an enormous number of people don't feel that way. Furthermore, a lot of people take the assumption that the government will get along even if they don't participate. And somehow it's a bottomless pit of money. Somehow it's a bottomless pit of resources. And somehow it'll take care of us when they're going to get stuff. None of those assumptions are really good. And we've seen that in Trump's draining the swamp, his own swamp is what it is. And so what we have now is a real disconnect between the government, which is damaged. And I want to ask you about that. And the citizenry, which is not educated about how that works and what his relationship or her relationship is to that government. So these are all the marks of huge impending failure. So I guess it's clear, it's easy to conclude that the educational system isn't teaching the relationship of the citizen and the government. But the other part is how badly damaged from a political science point of view is our government. When we look at Congress, it's dysfunctional, non-functional even. We're going to have another crisis over funding the government here in a week or two. Our current policy is completely out of whack. All our policies, immigration policy, our climate change, economics policies are all out of whack. The government is not functioning. The courts are being stacked to the point where you can't rely on them for justice. People are losing confidence, have already lost confidence in the government's ability. And thanks to Trump, there's no jurisdiction that's exempt from that loss of confidence. So it seems to me that from a political science point of view, it must pain you greatly to see these great institutions of American democracy not only deteriorate but willfully, maliciously deteriorate right in front of our eyes when there's no immediate solution. And I guess the other point is how badly damaged are we in the face of the need to correct those things? Is it correctable and how long will it take? That's a question that deserves a one semester discussion. But let's see if we can get to it. What do you think about that? How badly damaged is our democracy right now? Significant. Significant.  Many of whom are former students of mine who have developed careers in one kind or another here in this group of all of us live in Hawaii. And so we have what we call the double whammy. And one part of the whammy is looking at this constituted four-year American government as something which is so fundamentally different from anything we've seen before that the notion that even when we started talking about this a couple years ago, we were still in this notion that there are partisan extremes within the phenomena that are happening. Well, then you go back into that and say, well, what does partisan mean, et cetera, et cetera. And increasingly over the four years, we came to the conclusion that many others have that what we're looking at is a group of people who are willing and prepared for their own reasons and own purposes. And dear me, I do not wish to go a second further without talking as we always do about how this country like the global economy has slid to the direction of the 1%, who increasingly control more and more the wealth that not only of this society but of the world and who buy political systems as a consequence. And there's no gain saying that, although we try and we try mightily to overlook the damage and the shenanigans that people like the Koch brothers and Sheldon Edison and those folks can do within a system which we have to recognize is enormously vulnerable to that sort of thing as we saw in the election and as we've seen before. So if I can just slide this over a few degrees and say, if we say the perspective is more the political economic perspective on democracy, then what you have to say is we need a broader perspective. We need to look at what the last 30-40 years of globalization did to the organization of wealth in the world, how that affected political institutions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So now to slip back another couple of degrees to the right, we see all of this stuff happening with Trump and we look at the silence of the Republican Party in its institutional manifestations and we say, goodness gracious, what can that be about? And ultimately it is about the fundamental notion of staying in power period. To gain and regain office is one of the principal aspects of politics and it has been and we can follow this throughout the history of the country. From one era to another, different strategies emerged as to how to do that and sometimes post hoc, we call that corrupt. If we were to post hoc this and say what possibly can explain the behavior and forgive me in putting in these partisan terms, but that's the way of thinking about it, what possibly can explain the behavior of the Republican Party in the Congress in the face of this behavior on the part of Donald Trump. And it's about a lot of things, but for me, number one on that list is we need to stay in power and we'll do anything to do that. Well, slide your terms over and once again, that's what autocracy is about, staying in power irrespective of what the institutional norms are. But it is in the United States, autocracy is not a familiar conversation. We are not accustomed to using that with respect to our own government. Even when we went through period after period, sometimes in the South, but not fully in the South where we had totally corrupt legislatures and governors who were organizing their political power largely for the purpose of promoting racist racial agendas. We did not call that autocracy. We called it something else. And Trump has opened up new dimensions of behavior, which the Republican Party at the highest levels has bought into. I confess that I spend a fair amount of time, I'm going to say this. Let me jump in and ask you the Charles Dickens question, which is, what about the ghost of Christmas future? Because we have a problem. And the problem is the government is not functional right now. It is an autocracy right now. He somehow early on created this by nullifying the bureaucracy, by nullifying Congress, by nullifying the courts. He's taken away all the major institutions by which we practice government. And then on top of that, he has made tremendous strides in undoing our voting system. There was an article in The Times this morning about how, yeah, he's losing all these cases, but he's creating a stream of culture and precedent in the courts. Very damaging in future elections. It's a new brand of federalism, if you will, and it doesn't work well. So my ghost of Christmas future is, if we keep on doing this, if Mitch McConnell stays recalcitrant in the Senate, and we can't get anything done with Biden, assuming he is timely sworn in, then what happens to the country? First of all, I would make a guess and ask for your response. First of all, we decline. We decline worldwide. We decline economically. Obviously, we are declining in healthcare, vaccine or no vaccine. We have declined. And then the second question is, it can't stay this way. It can't, you know, autocracies in the modern era do not last. There will have to be a change of regime. There will have to be a change of regime either peacefully or violently. This country cannot, if that's the case, this country cannot continue to exist under the mantle of an ostensible democracy. It simply won't be a democracy and it will suffer. What are your thoughts about that? Yeah, we've got three minutes. Yes, I'm going to go to answering that question, but I want us to slide back a little bit and realize the degree to which we've been complicit with this behavior for such a long time. This has been a dysfunctional institutional arrangement for a long time. So during those hard periods, which go back at least to the Reagan era and certainly with Clinton and the senior Bush, when the politics of the institutions essentially made it impossible to govern, and so we got accustomed to governing by executive orders. And it wasn't until Trump that we'd looked on the other side of the executive orders and saw, oh my goodness, all of that stuff that we did by executive order, guess what, can be undone by executive order. And that's largely where Trump has done most of the damage. Plus, and I'll say this and then again, slide by it so we can get to what you're concerned about. But boy, we should have known something was up in those first six months of the Trump administration when we saw those people that he appointed to government. And I'll leave it at that. But goodness, was there ever an era in contemporary American politics where the national government was led by so much ineptitude and confusion as during the Trump administration. So go pass that then to the questions that you're raising, which I interpret as how do we create within this mishmash an understanding of what our national purposes might be and the role that education could conceivably play in this. And here I think and slide over to another function of analyzing politics and that is to say what are the discourses, who creates them, who promotes them, how are they conducted, etc. So we have lived in the last four years with the reality show discourse. And that is the subject unto itself, how that has unmade politics. What I see Biden trying to do and the appointments that he is trying to make is to create a new discursive structure for government. Some of what you read is that this will be based upon regarding people with dignity, etc, etc, etc. But beyond that, I think it is the people that I see and listen to when they show up on the TV talking about their appointments. What I see common amongst them is that we have to create once again a discourse, which is not first and foremost about blame. Second is not about the Bette Noir, the secret force which has made everything bad, but which seeks to return the notions of rationality and purpose to the governmental process. That I see as really the beginning of re-establishing what I would call civil discourse in the society. Now what education has to do with this at all levels is moving us away in bits and pieces from the damage which has been done by a culture of name calling, of once again all the BS that goes on on a television made up show, as opposed to efforts in the real world to try to get real stuff done. That's going to be a long process, Jay. I'm not entirely success optimistic that it can succeed, but once again I see that the basic structure of what Biden is trying to do is to re-establish the legitimacy of civil discourse, allowing us to speak to each other again about our differences, our legitimate differences, without demonizing the other in the process, and that I think is at the end of the day the significant damage that the Trump administration has done is to demonize the other, and that's what autocrats do throughout the world, that they need the target. They're trying to control the information, of course lies. They're trying to control the press.  But I see two practical problems here. One is the education system has in fact been profoundly damaged. It is profoundly damaged. It's pointing in the wrong direction. We may have some very talented teachers and faculty, but it has generated 70 million people, plus who don't want to engage in civil discourse, who are into name calling, and who follow him around like Jim Jones in Guyana. Some of them would die for him. It's hard to argue. It's hard to reason with somebody who is in that place. We have a problem in terms of the educational system as it is. We've had some really bad bureaucracy on education in recent years under Trump anyway, and now the first thing we have to do is fix it, so at least it can teach reason and collaboration and social compact. Then we have the problem of how long does that take, Dean? How long does it take to educate or re-educate a country of 70 million of which are off the side? Clearly by the vote. You can see it happening. The third question I suppose is, this goes back to Charles Dickens and the Ghost of Christmas Future. Do we have enough time in the useful life of our democracy, in the remaining life of our democracy, to undertake this task? In order to teach a country different things, you have to start early. You have to teach a lot of people a lot of things and have them change their way of thinking. I think that's really necessary. Do we have the time for that? Can we do that? With that I knew. The way that you have framed the issue makes me want to underscore, again, the idea that exists within our heads as parents, as citizens, as people with occupations, about what education is for. Now, we started ruining education long before Trump because we allowed ourselves throughout the 70s and the 80s, particularly within the Reagan transformation of political economy, although we didn't talk about it that way, into a world in which we thought that the purpose of education is to get a job. Without having the capacity or the willingness to raise the question, what the heck are the jobs that we're supposed to be educating for? You and I have had a bit of this conversation about what it means to take 14 million people and stick them in the biddy economy and then say, well, we're taking care of that. What we did was to take job security as a goal and allow that to be just trashed by the incursion, particularly of high tech, but high tech within the global economy. You and I have had conversations previously about the other part of that before the pandemic and before Trump that was going to make this a dilemma. That's the incursion of artificial intelligence upon the world that we're creating. We put all of these bundles together and boy, it's going to be an interesting time in the next couple of years. I think that the conversations that are going on within higher education oddly as a result of the enormous discontinuities that the virus has provoked in them, has forced them in a way that nothing else has to raise the question, what are we here for and what are we going to do and how are we going to do it? The data that I look at indicate that as much as 25 percent four-year institutions in the United States may not survive this financially. Well, that's one part of the equation. The other part of the equation is, what are the other 75 going to learn as a lesson from that? I picked up a book the other day. I got to tell it to you and I got to tell it to everyone who might be listening and watching to this, Barbara Tuckman's A Distant Mirror. Of course, one of my favorites. Fantastic book. We need to ask herself in the way that she raises the question, what is the century about? And as a century of extraordinary transformation, it leads us inevitably to the question of what do we want to be? So the ghost of Christmas pass, yes, do we have enough time? But in addition to that, do we have enough time for what? And this is precisely the time in our history where all of these events have led us to a reconsideration of the what? And in a democracy, in a functioning democracy, that question is never an innocent question. And it's never an easy question. So even in the best of circumstances, we would find ourselves debating at the most fundamental level the values that we want to promote in a radically changing world. And then you put into the equation the toxic elements that we've been talking about. And it's unprecedented. Perhaps it's unprecedented until we go back to the 14th century. But we have to, you know, my takeaway from that is that we have to ask ourselves the question in these new terms of discourse. What can we consider and how can we consider them in a way that is not usual and conventional? The other thing I'm reading is our friend from Plenipot's book, Mr. Obama's 700 page first, first book. Just that. Oh, the old one. Okay. Right, right. And he talks into Alia again and again in there about what he discovered about himself in writing the book. What was that inner discourse that he was overlooking even when he was, as it were, in the midst of the action? And that's what I think we started this by talking about what creates a better education. And in part of my understanding of a better education is asking the people who exit on the other side to have learned the humility to say to themselves on a regular basis, what don't I know? And what do I need to know? And what do I know? That may simply not be true. And I got to get rid of it whether I know it or not. Well, you know, that's the ultimate problem to get people to think about that. There's going to be resistance. And that's the first step. The first step is to have people consider what they need to consider. Anyway, you know, there's so much to talk about here, Dean. And I would like to rejoin with you in a few weeks. And we'll see how things spill over in terms of the political science side of things, the social science side of things. And maybe we can find new. I'm sure we can find new topics to discuss. Thank you so much, Dean Neubauer. Appreciate it. Thanks for asking me, Dave. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Dean. Aloha.