everyone and welcome to Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. I'm Kaley Iakina, your host and president of the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. Well, Hawaii is no paradise if you are in critical need of medical care. That was the title of my article, at least close to it. Hawaii is no paradise if you need medical care in the weekend's edition of Wall Street Journal on December 3rd. There I mentioned that even before the pandemic, Hawaii needed 800 additional doctors and about 2,200 non-physician personnel. That was just to meet the needs at that time. But our high taxes and high regulations have driven medical workers from the state and have limited our health care policy and so have some regulatory practices that we're going to talk a little bit about today. However, I want to introduce to you now somebody who knows this work because she's actively involved in advocating for health care for the residents of Hawaii and in particular Hawaii Island. Today we've got again on our program Lisa Rantz, the executive director of the Hilo Medical Center Foundation. And according to Lisa, residents of Hawaii Island are voicing their concerns now about the shortage in health care. Maybe you've known people from the neighbor islands and the big island in particular who've had to wait months in order to see a specialist and then have had to fly to Oahu to do so or sometimes even less availability to them. Well, Lisa is currently conducting a very important survey of residents about access to health care on the Hawaii Island. And so I'm just very pleased today that we can dive a little deeper into this issue with Lisa. Welcome to the program. Lisa, you've been executive director over there at Hilo Medical Center Foundation since 2014, I believe, and I want to welcome you back. Glad to have you back on the program today. Thank you so much, Kalihi. I'm always a pleasure to be on your show and spread the word about what we need to do to make things better. Well, you're doing very important work and as you and I were chatting just before the program, I have to confess that five to ten years ago, very rarely did I hear people talk about the shortage of medical need in Hawaii. I knew of it somewhat statistically. I knew of certain issues and concerns, but living on the island of Oahu, where we seem to have all the medical care that we need, we weren't aware of how acutely the problem existed for our neighbor island friends. And now that I'm thinking about it, the many, many stories that I've heard through the years of neighbor islanders having to wait and wait and wait to get medical care, it seems as though the problem is getting worse. Would you say that there has been a lack of awareness of this problem and now we're starting to learn more about it? Yeah, I think that there's been efforts like the annual Hawaii Physician Workforce Assessment that's been bringing this drum for the last 11 years and really trying to highlight the shortages that are taking place on the neighbor islands, but out of sight, out of mind. So with your population based on Oahu and not having shortages on Oahu, you don't know what that's like. You don't know what it feels like. You don't want to know what it's like to have to receive cancer care, but be told that you can't get it on island and you have to travel either to Oahu or the mainland to get care and then not feel very good and then have to travel back home. And that takes you away from your support base, your family, your comfort of your own home. I think as we've seen more neighbor island folks getting care on Oahu as our shortages increase across the neighbor islands, we're starting to feel that on Oahu and when you call your doctor and they're like, oh, you can't get in for two weeks or we can't see you for three weeks because we have appointments from neighbor island community members, then all of a sudden it hits home. And I think as the shortage increases, we're starting to see more of the impact on Oahu. Lisa, I would agree with you that on Oahu, we're becoming more aware of the plight of our neighbor island neighbors with respect to health care availability. But we're also starting to realize now that this is not just a rural or neighbor island problem. It is a statewide shortage of medical personnel and facilities that we have. In fact, in my opening comments, I mentioned that we had a clear cut shortage even before the pandemic and going into it. And during the pandemic, we've become all the more aware of how critical our shortage is here in Hawaii. But before we continue, I just want to take a moment and ask you to share a little bit about your background in terms of being what you call yourself today and what I observe you to be a health care advocate and educator. Absolutely. So I was actually a teacher before I joined Hilo Medical Center Foundation. And my first task was to build out the community arm of the foundation, which involved support for the Hawaii Island Family Medicine Residency Program, the only residency program located outside of Oahu. And it became very clear that we had to work on the infrastructure to make it possible to hire physicians in the community with getting a health profession shortage area designation or a HIPSA, which allows for loan repayment, which if you want younger providers to take over existing practices of aging providers, you need that loan repayment because education is very expensive now. And then that also provided a 10% bonus payment to our physicians in practice for all of the direct billed Medicare services, which is intended to help increase that Medicare rate, which we have the lowest in the nation here in Hawaii. But Hawaii's done a great job of getting everybody health insurance, but having health insurance does not equate to having access to health care. Well, I appreciate all of the advocacy you are doing in that regard. You mentioned to me that you had seen my article in Wall Street Journal this weekend, the one entitled Hawaii is no paradise if you need medical care. Any thoughts on that? Did we dovetail on some of the observations you've made over the last few years? Absolutely. You reported on the nursing study that showed that Hawaii County has the third largest shortage in our nation, followed by Maui County at number five and Kauai at number 13. But if you look at number one and number two, they're in areas that are very close to metropolis areas or populated areas where you can drive. In Hawaii, we're rural and remote and we cannot drive. We have to fly to get health care. And so really talking with our congressional delegation, as well as our state legislators on working on efforts where we can actually move the needle, right? It's one thing to report that we have these shortages and they go up. So even from your article, it's gone up to a thousand and eight from 820 is what our current shortages for the state. So that's pretty significant. Well, the fact that we have a medical capacity shortage is something that figured prominently in the rationale by our government leaders forced many of the lockdowns and some of the restrictions that we experienced and are continuing to experience in the pandemic. In fact, there has been the specter described of overrunning our medical facilities. So in terms as clearly as possible for us to understand, what is the medical shortage here in Hawaii and how severe is it? Well, as I just stated, just for physicians, we're short over a thousand providers. We have the most acute primary care shortage in the nation. And we also have a nursing shortage. And so when you couple that, we have legislators that have told us, hey, if we don't have primary care providers, we can have nurse practitioners or physician assistants come in and provide primary care and preventative care. But the bottom line is we have a shortage on all of those things. And it's very hard to fill those positions, especially specialty positions, which we found during COVID. You don't have respiratory therapists. We don't have the critical infrastructure that we need in our healthcare system. We have the least amount of beds in our hospital system per capita in the nation. And that's why we had to lock down because there just wasn't the capacity to deal with a surge because we're already on a regular day-to-day basis running a very high census, especially since so many folks paused their care during COVID. And now they're going in because they're sicker and they need more acute attention than they did ahead of the pandemic. So it's just a difficult situation. Well, we've talked about what the problem is, but why does it exist? How did this happen here in the state of Hawaii? And what are the factors that have contributed to the shortage? We like to refer to that as the perfect storm. We have a high cost of living. Our students, when they go into medical careers, come out with an absorbent amount of debt and to look at the housing costs as well. So that goes into the cost of living, but electricity is higher, food prices are higher, and then the reimbursements are the lowest in the nation. So you make less money and have higher bills. It's difficult to recruit young folks here. And then you've got parents that have lived here, maybe families for generations, and every generation wants the next generation to do better than the one before. And I think we're facing the first generation who's going to do worse than their parents did. And so I think parents recognize that and they're actually telling their kids to stay on the mainland, get their loans paid off, buy a nice big house, raise your kids. And then as the parents get older, then you can move back home and you can help take care of me. But what we're actually seeing is that these folks are moving and they want to be closer to their grandkids. We're losing population in the state of Hawaii and healthcare is one of the largest reasons why. When you talk about the exodus of people out from the state of Hawaii, you mentioned many of the factors such as the cost of living, which includes, of course, the cost of housing and so forth. And not only that, the difficulty of carrying the kinds of educational loans that are needed to go into the medical profession. What do you think the solution would be to this? And let's start at a more ground level point of view in terms of the future practitioners of the medical arts here in Hawaii, future doctors, future nurses, and so forth. Is there anything we can be doing now to help encourage them and empower them to stay in the state of Hawaii? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think community members are exceedingly grateful for healthcare. When we recruited a cardiologist two years ago, he said that he was thanked more in the first two weeks of being at Hilo Medical Center than he was in 10 years of practice on the mainland. And, you know, I think that gratitude goes a long way, but we can only work for pleases and thank yous for so long. Many of our providers, because the Medicare rate is so low, lose money on Medicare patients. So they need that commercial payer mix. One way to fix that is working through the congressional delegation to try to get an increase in the Medicare rates, something on par with Alaska. If we are successful in doing that, what I've been told is then our commercial rates will go up because the commercial rates are based off of that Medicare rate. And that's bad for business and that's bad for individuals adding to the cost of living. Another option is something that the state can control and that would be relief from the general excise tax. The general excise tax is a gross receipts tax and the hospitals don't pay it. Non-profits don't pay it, which means our federally qualified health centers providing care to some of the most vulnerable are not burdened with that. But our community physicians that are at the front lines of caring for our Medicare patients, for our MedQuest patients, TriCare are veterans, right? They're not allowed, or they're not able, they can't afford to take on those patients because they have to pay that tax. They can't pass that tax on to those populations. Now, Lisa, that may be a little bit difficult for the average person to understand because first of all, the GET that you're talking about, general excise tax, doesn't sound like it's all that much. It's a tack on four to five percent in most of our eyes, something we do when we pay groceries. So I've met a lot of people who find it very difficult to believe that this can be a make or break issue for medical doctors. But as I've listened to doctors, those that are not employed by big corporations who have their own practices and have to maintain their own businesses, the GET along with the rate of reimbursement for Medicare combine in a very big way. Apparently they have a very small margin they make. And so the GET and Medicare rate take a huge bite out of that. Is that how that works? It is. And so being a grocery seats tax, it doesn't equate to 4.5 percent. It's more like 15 to 20 percent of a practice cost. And when you're looking at a margin, typical practice, 70 percent overhead, 30 percent is what they make on the margin, but they have to pay at least half of that in the general excise tax from what we've read on the research and looking at the analysis. It just makes it very difficult to be a viable practice with the higher cost of living. We actually just lost three providers here in East Hawaii on Hawaii Island that are closing up their doors and moving to the mainland because they can't make the numbers work. They just can't do it. That's fascinating and also tragic because I think very few people have any idea as to how hard it is for somebody trying to make a living in the medical profession to do so. And so what you've provided to us is information that's very insightful. When we come back from a quick break, I'd like to ask you to tell us a little bit about the survey that you are conducting that will give us some insights into the problems that our people are facing. So I'm going to come back in just a moment with Lisa Rantz, Executive Director of the Medical, Hilo Medical Center Foundation. And you'll be with us on Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together. Don't go away. I'm Christine Lenders, physical therapist and board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist. And I am the host of Movement Matters, a show that is designed to bring you the best physical therapy tips and exercises so that you can have your best body and do all the things that you love. You can watch my show every other Tuesday at 11 a.m. on ThinkTechHawaii.com where I show you instructional videos from the top of your head to the bottom of your toes to get your body feeling its best. Remember, life is better when you listen to your physical therapist. I'll see you on Tuesday. Welcome back to Hawaii Together on the ThinkTech Hawaii Broadcast Network. I'm here with Lisa Rantz. We're discussing a very important issue, the shortage of health care in Hawaii. And she's done a marvelous job of advocating for that, not only on Hawaii Island, but statewide. She's the Executive Director of the Hilo Medical Center Foundation. Lisa, you've got a project going on now, which is a survey to determine the access to health care in Hawaii, what people's perceptions of that is, and what the reality is about that. It'll be very important. I understand it began on the Big Island, but it's actually turned into a statewide project. Would you tell us a bit about that? Yeah, I would be happy to. So it's a comprehensive community health needs assessment. And it was always intended to be a statewide project. We wanted to start it on Hawaii Island because that's where the most acute shortages are. We have a 53% shortage of providers or 287, according to the Hawaii Physician Workforce Assessment. And plus, I'm President for Hawaii State Rural Health Association and our office is on Hawaii Island. And so it just made sense to start here since the nursing shortage also indicated that Hawaii County is number three in the nation. So what this is, is we actually just wrapped up the survey. We did a community survey asking community members if they can get care when they need it.  Do they have to fly to Oahu or do they have to go to the mainland to get that care? And then HMSA is also sharing their data with us as far as what's being flown off island by procedure code. So we'll be able to start triangulating this data to show exactly what our shortages are and what we need to recruit for. And the other thing, which is sort of unprecedented in these kind of assessments, is we've pulled providers together, physicians and nurses, etc., and asked them, what do they need to continue to be able to provide care in our rural communities? What's working well? What supports could maybe be insurance companies or policymakers and community members provide to them so that we can continue to have access to care close to home. And so there was also a provider survey that went along with that. And what we're seeing in the initial results out of Hawaii Island is patients are having a hard time getting care. And the providers are saying that, you know, some patients, especially new patients, are at least a month out from getting any sort of appointment. And if it's something acute, they refer them to the emergency room to get that service. So in the other piece that we're seeing is the cost of care. Community members are postponing care because they get the bill that has the tax that's being passed on from the providers. And they're unsure as far as the co-pays and what that tax is. And it prevents our most vulnerable populations from going and getting that scan that can diagnose their cancer early. It's very unfortunate. The survey is sponsored by what organization and who's paying for it to get done. So this came out of monies from the Biden administration. So this was a CDC, a Center for Disease Control grant that went to the Department of Health. And so we worked very closely with the Office of Primary Care and Rural Health. And so we're doing all of the islands. We're starting in Hawaii Island. And then in the first quarter of 2022, we'll be launching simultaneously on the other islands with the focus groups and the surveys. We are working very closely with Hawaii State Rural Health Association, the Pacific Basin Telehealth Resource Center, the County of Hawaii. We'll loop in the other counties in the first quarter and Community First, which was started by Barry Taniguchi in 2015 to address some of these issues that we've been talking about today. And so we contracted with Community First as the lead organization to help push this forward. Because obviously, Heel Medical Center Foundation is very Hawaii Island centric, and we really couldn't take the lead on that. But Community First is a wonderful organization doing great work. They have the Arculiana project that was started just ahead of the pandemic to get folks to take responsibility, wear masks, do the hand washing, etc. So this is an important partnership that's been moved across the state. Well, obviously, one of the aims of the study will be to generate a greater awareness of the need for increasing healthcare resources in Hawaii. And hopefully that will result in more funding needed to be in that regard. Exactly. So I'm sorry to interrupt you. This is just the first step. So this assessment is just phase one. And then we're going to be able to report it out and then bring it back to the key stakeholders so that we can create that action plan. Where are the low hanging fruits? Are there policy changes that can be made that can, you know, start moving this needle forward? Because we can't just keep reporting. We need to take action and the time for action is now. We've seen it during the pandemic and we need to move this forward. There's just no way around it. And so we actually have a commitment of some small funding from some donors. The Department of Health has a little bit of money to start helping move this forward. So this is going to hopefully help our state legislators as they go into this session to know what to do with the monies that they've received from the federal government. Well, that's good. Lisa, we get questions from time to time from viewers. And the following question just came in and it indicates that those who may suffer from a shortage of healthcare services and resources are not just our local residents. Here's the question. What do you think will happen to Hawaii tourism if the legislature does not address the provider shortage crisis in the immediate future? Interesting question. Yeah. And I think that if people knew how dangerous it was to be here, if you suffer a trauma hiking, there's no trauma helicopters on Hawaii Island. You know, we have people that come to visit and they think that they're going to have a great time, but we see people drown. We have visitors that suffer cardiac arrest. There's just, I think the big push to say that, you know, Hawaii is the safest place to travel is a misnomer, right? We don't have the services to support the tourism industry. We need to be looking at other industries to step up to be able to fill in that gap. And perhaps instead of putting the burden of the general excise tax on our private practice folks, we look at reverting that back to, you know, 1931, the reason why they started the sales tax, they didn't have a big enough base. And so we have a tourism base that comes in. We should be able to do something with that. I'm not an expert in that, but... Well, you're thinking is in the right direction, however. At the Grassroot Institute, we have been advocating for removing the GET from medical and food as well. And that's the direction most states are heading. So we've got some catching up to do, to say the least. Very briefly, there are some regulations in our state that also impact the availability of health care. One of them is a certificate of need requirement. Any quick thoughts on that? And if you could define that for our viewers? Yeah. So I don't deal directly with the certificate of need or the SHIPDA organizations. We're actually working a little bit on the Hawaii county organization that does the certificate of needs to help with some videos to help our community members navigate the health care system. And that was kind of my first foray into the certificate of need, but then listening to their process of how they sort of decide whether we have the economies of scale or the population to add services was interesting to me. I don't know enough about it to really make a large comment on the certificate of need process. But what I've read is it's a little bit antiquated and the federal government doesn't fund it. So this was a little bit from your article. And yeah, it just seems like another layer of bureaucracy that may not be in the best interest of our community members getting access to the high quality care close to home that they deserve. Well, Lisa, I want to thank you so much for being on the program with us today. The things you've shared are very important. We need to be talking about them. And I really appreciate the work that you're doing and looking forward to the results of the survey. Absolutely. We're looking forward to sharing the results. Well, thank you very much. Lisa Rantz has been my guest today. She is the executive director of the Hilo Medical Center Foundation. And we thank her so much for her insights. I'm Kili Iakina with Hawaii Today, I mean Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks. Aloha.


So if you watched my last video, you're probably wondering, Chris, why would I ever, ever do that? Why would I ever convert an image into text and back again? And although I did give some examples in there, today we're going to do it again in another very inefficient way to do something. We are going to use that command. We're going to use image magic to convert an image into text. And then we're going to use some command line tools to take that and convert that text into a Python script, which we can then paste into Blender to generate an object. Very completely inefficient way to do this. What I'm doing could probably be done with Python alone in Blender. But I'm using my knowledge on what I know how to do to accomplish something. Now, if you go way back in my videos, a long time ago, I made a video where I basically took an image of Mario from the Super Mario Brothers, old 8-bit pixels. And I made a cube for each pixel. And I by hand lined them up and colored them. So then I had a grid, if you will, of cubes that shaped Mario and their colors. And I did that by hand. I'll probably have, if I can find it, the video up on screen right now, which was fun. But why do that when I can automate it? Or at least mostly automate it. I should be able to fully automate it again with Python in Blender. But I am going to use Bash, because that's what I'm most familiar with, to generate Python script that I'm going to paste into Blender. Completely very inefficient. But it works. It works. And again, it's just for fun. I'm going to show you how it runs. And basically, yeah, I'll just show you. OK, here we are. I'm in a directory where I have a couple of sprites and my script. And then I also have Blender open here. Let's get Blender ready to go. I'm running Blender 3.64 right now. But this should work with pretty much every version of Blender that's out currently. I'm going to split the screen horizontally here. I'm going to change this top box, this top view, into a Python console. Now, in here, you can type in Python code. Anything you can think of doing in Blender, you can do by typing code. So if you want to create objects, manipulate objects, create materials, apply those materials, change the materials, you can do all that. Just whatever you can imagine, you can write Python scripts. And you can actually import Python scripts. And you can make modules and plugins with Python scripts. We're just going to paste code directly into here. And when my shell script does, again, it's going to take the image, convert the image into text where each line has a coordinate and a color value for that pixel. And it's going to then create Python code that will create a cube or a box. Based on that, it's going to create it and place it in its location. Then it's going to create a material of the proper color and then apply that color. Again, it's not very efficient because it's going to create a new material for each one of these pixels in the image, even if that color already exists as a material. But again, this is just for fun. I'm sure there's going to be some issues. I can already predict one because when you use image magic to convert an image to text, it gives you a RGB value. But if it's a perfect black or white, it's just going to say black or white. And my code has already converted. If it's a pure black or pure white, it will convert it to the proper RGB values. But if you have a color that is a perfect red or a perfect blue or a perfect green, it will say red, blue or green. And my code currently doesn't adjust that because it's got to be pixel perfect of that color. If it's one value off, it won't say that. So it's not that big of a deal. But let's go ahead. I'm going to delete everything in this director or in this view. I am going to go back to my shell here. I am going to run my command. Now, if I just run my script, which again will be linked in the description of this video, it's going to start printing all the Python code to the screen. And I don't want that. What I want to do is I want to put it into my clipboard. I'm going to use X clip. X clip may not be installed by default. There's also X selection. There's other ways to get into a clipboard. You can always put in a file and then copy that file. Here we go. I just put it in there. So just install X clip if you haven't. And I am then going to go back to blender. I'm going to make sure I'm in my mouse cursor is over this console window. And I'm going to hit control V and enter. And I'm going to wait. Cause it's going to paste again, three lines for every pixel. So it takes a moment. And there we go. I have my Mario here. Let's go ahead and go to a rendered preview. And that's what he looks like. Now you may notice if we go back to here, he's actually flipped the reverse way as he is in the image. If that's an issue for you, what you can do is control A to select them all, R to rotate, Y 90, or actually 180 is what we want. And now he's facing the other way. So again, each one of these is its own little cube for every single pixel. So again, you do not want to use large images. This Mario is 16 pixels tall and I think like 12 wide. In fact, let's go into GIMP now where I have a couple of these images open. This one's rather large. I wanna say it's, let's see. It's, I think it's about 58 pixels tall or no. I think it's 64 pixels tall and then 70 some wide. So that's a rather large image. Now, a few things to take note. Again, resize it down. Make sure it's not a large image.  I'm using little images here. Cropped away all the excess stuff. Now, also make sure, so look at this Mario. If I go up to image and I go to mode, you can see this one's indexed. You wanna set that to RGB before you export it as a PNG. And you do want it to be a PNG because you want this, well, in most cases, want this transparent background, which my script does take into account. Now, if you don't do that, if you leave it as indexed, it will generate Mario, but its colors will be all weird because index, it's using this palette and we don't have that palette when we're converting it over into Blender. But let's go ahead and try this with a few other examples here. I will now go with, we'll do my Goomba here. Again, just wait a second for that to all be pasted into the clipboard there. I will go into Blender. I'm going to move Mario over here. Go over there, Mario. Again, make sure that your cursor is over your console here. Control V and hit Enter and then wait. Again, it's running three lines of code for each pixel. So we're talking easily 1,000 lines of code here. I hope it pasted it. Oh, there we go, just took a second. There we go. So now we've got our Goomba. I'm going to select all, whoop, not hide. Let's, can we unhide? Oh well, I'd forget what key unhide stuff. Anyway, those are hidden now. Can I unhide? No, it doesn't work like that. Anyway, not a big deal. We'll run it again. Again, we will do it with one of our turtles. Turtle 1 PNG. And I will paste that into here. While that's pasting, I will then do Bowser PNG. Back to, where's, oh, it's not showing up because it's locked until it's done pasting. Let's go ahead and just pause the recording here for a second. There we go. Took a moment. There's our turtle. It almost looks like he's got transparency there, but that's just the white looking like gray and the other lighting. So this is a texture preview. This is rendered and I have no lighting. Let's go ahead and paste in our Bowser. And oh, I should have moved this turtle first. They're going to overlap. I will pause for a moment. Again, it doesn't take too long. Bowser's a little bit bigger. So I'm going to assume maybe 30 seconds or so and he'll be done. And your mileage may vary based on your computer. My computer is not the fastest in the world. And again, I'm pasting into here. Theoretically, you could put this into a Python file and import that and it probably would run faster. And also my screen recorder tends to bog down my machine. I did do test runs of this when I wasn't recording and it did go a whole lot faster while that's still working on that. Let's go ahead and run that again. But instead of copying it to our clipboard, let's go ahead and count the number of lines. And so we can see exactly how many lines of code we are pasting into Blender. Even this has taken a moment. So yeah, we're pasting 3,186 lines of code into Blender right now. Here we go, he's in there. And again, I forgot to move the turtle before we did that. So they're kind of overlapped. And since every cube is an individual object, separating them is not gonna happen. It's kind of like what happens in time cop when the same material occupies the same space at the same time, if you know what I mean. Anyway, yeah, so I will link to my script that you get this from. If you can improve upon it, that'd be great. If you could run a Python straight code, even better for Blender. Real quick, I can even show you my script. Again, it is not beautiful. And this is just for fun. And let's go ahead and make this full screen. So yeah, it's checking for input. If not, it's gonna exit. Then it's gonna check, does that file exist? If not, it's gonna exit. Then we're gonna use the convert command from image magic to take the image that was passed, convert it to text. Then we're going to remove, basically I could just remove the top line by removing any line that starts with a pound symbol, because that's the top line's comment. And then we're going to print the first and fourth column. And then I am going to remove where it says s-r-g-b-a forward slash, and I'm gonna just replace that with a comma. And then I'm going to remove the final parentheses there. That will give us most of what we need. But then again, if it's a pure black or pure white, it's going to say black or white. What I'm doing here is replacing black with 0, 0, 0 as a value, white with 255, 255, 255. Blender does not want a value from 0 to 255. It wants a value from 0 to 1. So then I'm going to use b-c here to convert that. I'm gonna divide this number by 255, which will give me that decimal number we need. We want at least six decimal points long. So that's what the scale six is. We're also saying if the line says none, that would be a transparent pixel. We're just going to skip that. So at that point, after we do all this conversion, we will get the color, which is r-g-b. I am then gonna create a material with a random name, I do random twice, just to make sure I don't accidentally create the same material twice. And then I will echo the command to create and position a block that is 0.5 in scale. And then I am going to create a new material with the name we generated up here. And oh, I said three lines. It's actually five lines of code for each pixel. Then we're gonna set that material to use nodes. Then we're going to set that material's color to the color value that we've created up here. And then we're going to apply that to the active object, which is the cube we just created. All that comes in, it's gonna have this white space at the beginning. So here I'm saying remove all leading white space because Python is white space sensitive, which is one of the main things I don't like about Python, although a lot of people will praise it for that. And yeah, and that will give us our five lines of code for each pixel that then I can copy and paste into Blender.  Anyway, that's it.  And it might seem very inefficient and you saw it takes a while to paste in and could definitely be improved. It was just something I did while I was bored. This is a lot more efficient than the way I did it years ago where I manually placed blocks and colored them over an image. And yeah, they're each individual block so then you can add physics to it and make them fall and crash or whatever you wanna do just for fun, just to work on my skills both in Blender and in Bash. So thank you for watching. Visit filmsbychrist.com. That's Chris of the K. As always, there's a link in the description. There'll be a link in the description to this code. If you wanna improve upon it, I would love to see your changes. If you do come up with a script in Blender, which is very, very possible to take the image and have Blender just create the image in cubes without the need for the Bash script would be a much more efficient way to do it. But again, sometimes you can look at the right way to do it and then sometimes you can just do it in with the skills you know or you know. So that's it. Filmsbychrist.com. That's Chris of the K. There's a link in the description as always. I hope that you have a great day. Be sure to support me, Patreon, Libre Pay. You can buy me a coffee, I guess, even though I don't drink coffee. Thanks for watching and again, have a great day.


Diddy can I'm back today with another video shots you between the name if you're not subscribed do me a favor and smash the Scriban the goal is a hundred thousand subscribers by December 31st 2023 and I need your help so we get busy we get the cheese baby So make sure you smash the Scriban and give me a thumbs up in today's video. We're gonna do some DL I be our DV mother pull it right now so we can get this to deliver We're gonna do an order on delivered and delivered that I also have announces to make for you guys So make sure you stay tuned through the full video first by the pull up to nap nap grill when we keep it real We keep the steel this one is on delivered the order cost is $699 and 50 cents We are gonna drive 14 miles and receive a payment of 42 bucks if you hate so what let's go Guess where we are at? We are here at nap nap grill and this joint is closed And that joint cooking right now this one is closed. Maybe I go to this door Try this dough No, it's gonna do it like me. No It's doing still close. They're gonna let me in so we can get these dividends and we're in No, yeah, I got this deal. This one's still locked. What's going on ball? Oh, I have a pickup. It says 1020. That's why I'm here. Yeah Hello I'm doing ready yourself Yes, ma'am Um, the number is right here. Yeah, WTG. Yep. All right All right, thank you very much Yeah, well, I got I have a I got a bag I have bags so I could just put it in the bag Man just like that. We got everything bungee it up now. It's time for us. Go get these bucks. Let's go Just like that. We are here at the drop-off location. I ain't been here in a long time Maybe I used to come here all the time to deliver that. I feel like I won't need no line The lady used to be right here Hello, how you doing sir? I'm here with you guys. It's easy catering order. Oh, okay. It's usually she usually in here I usually see her but we got yes sir today Okay, thank you very much sir I'm a bragging about the quality of the wagon get so much money our pants sag. I'm gonna move this out the way Nice and slow. This joint super heavy Put it in here pop up. Oh Y'all see how heavy they're doing is almost slide almost slid on me, baby.  I ain't seen you in a while I'm doing great. I can't complain Yeah, this car saved lives Yeah, so You guys got a lot of food today. Oh really? Hello I'm gonna step back into the photo of your noodles We gone, let's go. So guess what as I told you guys before I had a meeting with D. L. R. B. R. D. We bought the photo right now so we can get this cheese delivered at I had a meeting with the people at deliver them And guess what I actually spoke with the CEO the owner of delivery and he has come to Chicago, baby I'm gonna tell you guys a little bit more, but guess what we had to do with some more dough So we can scroll we have an order on deliver that if you like I won't leave Be in the back and give it give it give it deliver that the pickup place is McAllister delis We're gonna drive 18.8 miles 21 minutes of drive time. The order cost is $206 and 27 cent and we'll receive a minimum payment of 2786 we have to go ahead and get in the mix. Let's go just like that We are here at McAllister delis said please use the other dough. Guess what you gotta read baby read is fundamental So let's see if they got this joint ready So we'll get in and out like a bank robbery, baby How you doing? I have an easy catering order to pick up for Amazon Okay Thank you This is it Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. No, I'm okay. Thank you guys have a good one. Thank you, sir You guys have a great day. Thank you very much. I appreciate it boss Alrighty, you have a good one Now I'm gonna step back here with the photo you already know It's time to hit the road. Guess what getting to this money is the goal. Let's go Just like that. We are here at amazon, baby To draw up this order so we can go out here and get we are here getting order, baby That's what we're doing. Hopefully we can get some more orders so we keep on getting busy Because yesterday was critical I just want y'all to know It was critical Oh No, this the card is mine.  I'll just wait for you. No, okay Close the door. There's a lot more. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So thank you very much. You have a great day. Okay So guess what for that order? We actually receive 42 dollars and 40 cent enough money to pay the rent Look, it's crazy, right? One order was 699 dollars and 50 cents And the other order was 206 thousand 27 cents And we got pretty much the same payout, baby And the mileage went that far apart one was uh the one that we got uh 42 44 Was actually four mile 4.8 miles more than the other one. That's it. That's all baby We're out there to ball and now start now Let's get into what you guys been waiting for what you need to know Guess what my guy chris hefferman. I think that's how you say it If I might be wrong chris if I did if I said it wrong. I don't hey, I messed up a player's messed up Now he will be in Chicago, Illinois on Wednesday So we will be doing a well two orders with him with the ceo, baby We're doing two orders with him and we're also want to have some questions to ask him So I need you guys to come up below. I'm gonna do a community post Tell me what you guys want to know from the ceo of the lyric. Come up below and let me know, baby So I'm gonna go up there. Let's go. We get to poppa like chris called honestly to be completely honest with you guys Out of all of the orders we do I think that the catering orders are the easiest orders and they have great payouts, baby It literally take from start to finish most of the time probably 30 minutes all together, baby I'm somehow going in there getting the food jumping to the drop off location and dropping it off, baby You seeing how sweet it was for us to do the two orders Well, I didn't even have to go in all I had to do is put put the George on the cart Then on the second order handing lady those bags. We might think that's just a bag Don't be hating.  I don't know come up below and let me know What are you guys favorite apps and favorite types of orders that you go out there and do, baby? But I hope you guys enjoyed this video again If you are not subscribed make sure you subscribe But give me a thumbs up and do not skip those ads and lock us tomorrow if that's as bad Why we can make this bad the 233 is a big bad season. We'll keep on getting my reason I see you guys on the next one. We're gonna be going refueling. You already know in the dk and i'm on my way


Good morning everybody. And while people are popping in and joining us, I'm going to just let everybody know that this is an OpenShift Commons briefing and I'm really pleased at the number of participants that are jumping in and joining us this morning. So it's a tribute to Veer's popularity and as well as to his expertise. So Veer Mukchandi is our, you see, platform architect and an evangelist for us at Red Hat, but he's also much, much more. He's done lots of work on client deployments and helping customers and folks get all the efficiencies they cannot have OpenShift. And today he's going to talk to us a little bit about implementing blue, green and AB deployments, which I think is near and dear to a lot of our hearts. So I'm going to let Veer introduce himself and give us a little bit about his background and then just kick this off. And we're going to talk for about a half an hour and then we'll do some Q&A. If you want to enter questions and answers through the chat, please do so. I'll read them off and then we can have a conversation afterwards about whatever feedback you want to give him or any other questions you want to ask here. We've got him for a full hour. We take it away, Veer. Thanks. Thanks, Ryan. Hello, everyone. My name is Veer Mukchandi. I am a platform as a service architect or an evangelist. I am also called a middleware specialist. My job is to work with our potential Red Hat customers who are interested in platform as a service, OpenShift, right? And then help them adopt OpenShift in their enterprises. So I go in stages where OpenShift is new for them. They are trying it out, getting their hands wet. I help them set up OpenShift in their enterprises and then coach them on how to use OpenShift kind of things. So in that process, I also come across a lot of situations where I am from Red Hat's perspective. I come to know about what customer situations are or what they're asking for or what the expectations from past are firsthand. So there's a good part of my job that I am exposed to what customers are wanting from a tool like OpenShift. So that's about me. So the topic for today is blue-green and A-B deployments. So what are these and where are they coming from? Let's talk a little bit about that before we get into how to do this, right? Now, blue-green, when it comes to deployments using OpenShift, application deployments using OpenShift, one of the questions that comes up from the customers whom I meet is how do I achieve efficiencies in terms of deploying newer versions of applications? My team is always changing applications, right? And as the applications change, they have their handover from development to QA, QA to production, right? When it comes to especially to production, the operations teams have traditionally they have been like working over the weekends or taking some time in the nights where the application can be taken down and a newer version has to be deployed. And that's painful as well as time consuming and if things fail, then they have to roll back. All these issues would be there, right? So how do we reduce the downtime of applications number one or how do we probably achieve zero downtime deployments, right? And that's the kind of question comes up and there are patterns that have come up in the industry in the past few years and which enable this minimal downtime or sometimes zero downtime deployments. And these are those patterns, the blue green deployments and AB deployments are kind of those patterns. They are more or less the same, but there are some minor tweaks, minor differences. So we are going to discuss what these patterns are and how OpenShift enables these patterns with the kind of flexible architecture OpenShift has, how those patterns can be achieved using OpenShift or I do have a couple of applications that are already deployed for these patterns. I pre-deployed them for the sake of time because this is just a half hour and if I try to build and deploy during this call, it's going to take a lot of time. So I have these examples ready and I'll show you how to achieve these patterns, but let's talk about what these patterns are. First we'll address the blue-green deployments. So in case of blue-green, right, what does blue and green represent? Blue is the version of application that is running right now. Let's say it is version one of your application, right? It's think of it as blue color, blue is version one. And let's say blue has some problems and green is version two, which is with the changes. So the newer version of application, let's think about it as green, right? So you want to move from blue to green. So if you look at how the blue version of application is running today, you have the app running and there could be one or more than one instance of app, which is of blue version, right? So in terms of OpenShift, I'm making an assumption here that people who are on this call have no little bit about OpenShift already. They know what a pod is, what a service is, and all that. So I don't want to explain all those things at this point. I'm just directly jumping into how to do blue-green without assuming, by assuming that you know all the basic stuff about OpenShift, right? So let's say if you have multiple instances of your application running, you may have multiple pods which are the running instance of your application, right? And all these pods or all these instances of your application are frontended by a router. And the router is the one that is load balancing and distributing the traffic across all these instances of your app, right? So there is a blue version of app running, and when your client, which is probably a browser, right, is hitting your application's URL, then it gets resolved to the router, and from router, the router will take it to the blue version of application on one of those pods that is running, right? Now, when you want to introduce a newer version of application, which is the green version, right? How do we make a quick switch from blue to green without incurring a lot of downtime, right? So in that case, what you would do is rather than tearing down the blue version of application, in case of OpenShift, since applications run as pods, you can spin up a new app, right? Perhaps within the same project, spin up a new app with the green version of application. That means a green pod gets spun up. So now both blue and green are running. You can also test your green app in advance and make sure it is running. And after that, you can disconnect the route from the router to the blue version of application and at the same time enable the route to the green version of application. I'll show you exactly how it is done, right? Now, what happens in case where your green version is bad? Since your blue version is already running, you can quickly switch over or roll back to the older version if you have to, right? That's blue-green. How do we switch instantly between the blue version and green version? Now, having said this, let me quickly switch over to the demo. As I said, I have a pre-deployed application. Let me pull it up. So what you will see here, I have a project with name blue-green demo, right? And in this project, I have two applications running or two different versions of application running, right? I have a blue application, right? And this is running with just one pod here. And there is a green application that's running with another pod. And both these applications have their... If you know OpenShift every pod, you cannot talk to pod directly. There's a service front-ending the pod. So blue application has a blue service and green application has a green service front-ending it, right? Now, also, you'll see a difference here that there is a URL for this application, right? And this URL is associated with blue right now, which means that your route is pointing to the blue version of application. So let's see what it looks like. So it's showing a blue rose, right? Now, let's say we want to switch over from this route from the blue version to green version. Let's see how easy it is to do this, right? I'll bring up... Let me switch over to the project first. So I'm getting into the blue-green project. If I look at the routes, I have this route, which is this URL, right? And this route is pointing to the service blue, this service. Now, all I have to do is edit this route. This name is blue-green. Get down here. You'll see that the host name is the URL and it is pointing to the service with name blue. I'll change this to green, right? This is the green service. And I'll just save this file. Instantly, you have seen that this URL now moved from blue to green, right? Now, let's go back and see what happened to the application itself. There's a green rose, right? So that's a quick switch over of app from blue to green. So when you want the newer version of application to be deployed, all you have to do is just switch over. So this can be done at any point of time. You don't have to be in the night to do it, right? So think of the amount of ease with which operations can handle this kind of task, right? That's the advantage of blue-green. Now, there is another pattern. I'll move this away and we'll go to the next kind of deployment pattern. There is another pattern that keeps getting discussed, which is the AB deployments pattern. Now, one more thing I forgot to talk about. If you wanted to switch from green to blue, again, you would make the same exact change. Like if something was wrong with the blue green version and if I wanted to change to blue, all I do is this change and then my app gets back to the older version, right? Now, the next pattern is AB deployments. And AB deployments is more, although it is very similar to blue-green. This is a little different model in the sense that a lot of people ask, like, I have a newer version, but I don't want to switch over completely from the older version to newer version. I want to test it out slowly and slowly move my deployments from the old version to newer version, right? Now, by default, let's say you have n number of parts of your application running in production. Let's say you have your app and in this case, since we are calling AB, let's call the first version as app A. Now, your app version A has, let's say, 100 parts or 100 instances running, right? If you are doing a deployment with OpenShift, by default, OpenShift does a rolling deployment, which means that each part will be taken down when you change the version from A version to B version. A part is taken down and the new part is put in its place and it repeats for all 100. You can also change it to update by certain percentage, which means you can say that I have 100 parts. I want to take down or change 10% at a time, which means 10 parts are taken out. They are replaced by newer version of your application, which means out of 100, 10 will be new, 90 will be old, and then it keeps repeating that until it reaches 100. That functionality is there automatically. You have the rolling deployments configured automatically when you try to do deployments with OpenShift. You can change the strategy at any point of time, but it's configured by default. Some of the customers ask for, yeah, you will do automatic rolling deployments, but I don't want it that way. I want that to be controlled. I have 10 instances of my app running, 10 parts running, but I want to decide when I want to increase the number of instances of app B, which is the new version, and reduce the number of instances of app A, the old version. So they want to have a complete control on increasing the number of instances and reducing the number of instances. Let's look at what it looks like. You have the same model, you have a router, your client is reaching the router by using a URL, and there are n number of instances of your app version 1 running, which is app A. Now, let's say you had a change, you made a change, it's tested, and then it's being driven into production as an deployment, right? You spin up a new part of version 2, which is app B, right? Now, you don't have to take down the version 1, you just introduce one instance of app B, and you have four instances of app A in this case, right? And then if you are, some of the load is getting directed to app B while the rest of the load is going to app A. So both the versions of application are running at the same time, right? And then as you go along, if you are happy with the performance of app B, you start increasing the number of instances of app B and reduce the number of instances of app A, right? And this continues until the app A version is completely taken off, you don't run any instances of app A, you only run instances of app B, right? So this kind of a model where you gradually shift your workload from app A to app B is called AB deployments. Now, how do we achieve this using OpenShift? In OpenShift again, we have the route, right? And we define a service that frontends the parts, right? In this case, what we would do is, we define a label for the application, like for example, you can call this label anything, but let's say we say all these parts are AB members. AB deployment members, right? So I set a flag called AB member equal to true and it applies to all the parts here. And then I also define a service that frontends any parts that have this label called AB member equal to true, right? Which means whether it is the blue application or green or red or whatever it is, right? Any part that has AB member equal to true will be frontended by this service.  So when I hit my app.mydomain.com, it goes to the router and it is, since this route is frontending this particular service, the router will load balance across any parts with this particular label, right? Now, as we move along, we add app B with the same label. So now the route, the load that is coming in gets distributed across blue as well as green at the same time, right? This is what we do in order to achieve the AB process. And then over a period of time, the blues will go away and our application A will go away and our application B will remain, right? Now, let's see, going back to the example, right? I have another, let me close this. I have another pre-deployed application. And my project, I call it AB demo. And if you see here, I have an app A and there are six parts of app A running here. And I also have an app B and there are currently, there are no parts for this. And both app A and app B are frontended by a service. This service is not relevant because we are not going to use it. However, there are six parts here for app A and there are zero parts for app B right now. You'll also see that there is a service AB, which is the same as what I was showing here. And this has this AB member equal to true kind of a label set, which means that any parts with that label will be frontended by this service and in turn this route is going to load balance across all this, right? Now let's pull up and show what I'll do now is, you see this URL if I what is getting displayed here. It just says I'm version one and my product IPs so and so right now. Let's see and you'll see that there are six parts running and all these six parts belong to app A and just have a look at this IP addresses, right? These are IP addresses of each of these parts. Now let me run a loop here. The reason I am doing it from command line is because if I do it from the browser, there will be enough. There will be session affinity to a particular part. So every request will end up going to the same part. So that's the reason why I'm doing it from command line. If I learn run this for loop and call this URL. It's going to say the same thing. I am version one but look at the part IPs here. 162 63 226 227 247 246 and then again 162 163, right? So the six of them are round robin and then they repeat again and those are the six of these right and these all the six are version one which is app A. Now what we'll do is we'll scale up app B and we'll scale down app A. So so I'm scaling app B down up and I'm right now that a zero. I'm making it one and I am reducing the number of instances of app A to five once I make this change. Let's come and have a look at it. It's creating a new version of app B. We'll see that there was zero here and now it's spinning up a new part. It's already done and also the number of parts of app A have been reduced from 6 to 5 right now under this service a B now you'll see that there were one two three four five parts of app A and one part of app B got added here because this guy is servicing both app A and at B at the same time now. Let's have a look at whatever loop does for us. You see that there are five parts of app A and there is one of app B so five of them are five of the requests are coming back with version one and one of them is coming back with version two. So you just introduced version two of the application just with one part and that's being hit and then it's around Robin right now. Let's go further and make them equal right. So three of happy and three of happy now you'll see that app B scaling up and app A has already scaled down. Let's wait for it to come up. Yep, all the three are up right now. Let's go back and check what the results are. Oops now the load is distributed right between one and two now let's say I completely scaled on scale up app B to six and scaled on app A to zero app is completely gone now. We are happy with app B. So all six are at B. So now everything is version two. So this is how the gradual increase of your newer version of application and gradual reduction of the older version of application can be done now. Remember that there are two versions of applications available at any point of time if I'm not happy with if with the newer version for any reason I can always scale back the old version to zero and switch over to the new version to zero and switch over to the old version right. So that's that's the power of being able to do things on time that that's what that was about the AB. So I'm done with what I wanted to show. Now I'm ready for questions. So there are a couple of questions have come in Vera and thanks for that it was it was pretty pretty good enlightening for me in the blue green. What happens when someone's got an already open connection and you disconnect to do the to the blue? What happens to that connection? Does it keep is it complete? If someone's running. So there is a yes there is a setting that you can do in terms of once when you are scaling down your parts right or when you're trying to shut down your part. There is some responsibility from the application developer side on how they take the termination signal. So OpenShift will send a termination signal and your app once it receives the termination signal can say that I don't want to accept any more new connections from now on. But I'll service my existing connections and complete it before moving on to the before shutting down. If the app can be coded like that, then there will be graceful termination of the of that part. It's the all OpenShift is doing is sending a termination signal to your part which in turn ends up on the app. So the app should respond to that in order to achieve that effect of a graceful termination. Okay. And yes, the session is being recorded Palmer. That's one of the questions that just pop. I know where you set the labels and selector in the AB and the app AB service. Sure. I run OC get service. There are three services. One is for just app A alone. And the other is for app B alone. And the third is app AB. I created a new service and I set the selector as a big group member equal to true. Let me open this and show. See the selector here. I set it as app AB group member equal to true. Now, how did I do that? Let me it was by when I created both two versions of applications using a template. For example, this app a service was created and ab service was created. But this app AB service I had to create myself. So I used this command to create the service. I said expose DC app a for example that at the time only app was there and name I gave it as app AB and I said use this selector. So this is the key here. So I'm defining a new service. Generator equal to service, right? I'm defining a new service and I'm defining that service with this selector. Right and then it created this additional service for me. Any other questions? Mateus has a question. I'm going to let him unmute himself and ask directly. He can figure out how to unmute himself. No, not quite yet. He's figuring out he's muted himself. Can you talk a little bit more about session affinity? I think that was something you glossed over pretty quick. Not doing it in the console versus doing it in the terminal. And what's happening with that? If I, for example, if I I refresh it, right? And now it is like 3.252. If I continue to refresh my screen, I'm still hitting the 3.252. It's not going to a different part. That's due to session affinity configured in the router. If I if the request is coming from the same client. It's getting directed to the same part due to the session affinity. And that's the reason why I had to do it from as a curl from the command line so that I can see the list of parts that I can show that on Robin stuff. It's hard to do it from the browser because I have to completely clear the cache and do it again if I have to show a different part here. But by default, the session affinity is already there. And that's the reason why you are always hitting the same part. Okay. So I think Matthias may have. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can thank you. Hi. Go ahead. First of all, it's an honor to be here watching this working technology. We have a couple of customers that often they do a deploy that breaks everything. And I guess the program deployment is it the best way for them to go. So what is your recommendation recommendation when the new deployment would let's say bring some compact BTR or manage with the database. What was the best way to move when change will break. So there was a code so I could not hear it clearly but let me reiterate what I understood. What is the recommended approach when there are application dependencies on let's say the data with the back end database. Is that the question? It's close. I think what Matthias is concerned with and I apologize for the echo if you're getting it too is that if you have a customer who deploying in blue-green that it breaks the application and maybe a database dependency or something else but it's what's the best you know what he's asking is what's the best way to go when a new deploy breaks the current deploy. Must be some interdependency between the applications. So when you're doing blue-green the first type that we discussed about right you have the blue version that is currently running let's say and when you're introducing the green version it's a flip between blue and green at one instance right so either the blue is active or green is active not not both at the same time now in such a case if the blue was running okay and it was it was fine you have as long as the blue is running you have you can take your own time to test the green version as long as you want before doing the flip or right so now in spite of like after the deployment of the blue after switching over to the green version if you don't like it you can always switch back to blue. I didn't understand the one version affecting the other version that that part I didn't understand maybe perhaps you are saying that once I switch over to the green version if if the green version involves some changes to the database and I have to switch over to the blue version that didn't have those database changes right is that is that the kind of question yes I think so okay if that is the case I mean this which pattern that you would apply depends on what the changes can I can I do a blue-green in case where there is a database change is something that you have to think through and then apply so if you are when you are moving from blue to green if there is you can you can still move from blue to green by using this pattern but the being able to roll back from green to blue will depend on what kind of change you made so you need to tell your operations in advance on this kind of a change you cannot flip back because of because of the kind of change it is because the the database is completely different and if I try to switch back there are dependencies that will not allow me to do it so better trust that application fully before before you switch over kind of thing so the the the rollback is still possible by using the procedures that you already use if but the ability of this this kind of pattern only goes only up to a certain extent you cannot it's not a these are not silver bullets that apply in every situations you mean you have to decide on what works and what doesn't for your particular situation. So Mateus is saying that blue-green is is like an atomic switch. You have to go all the way there's one other question there's a couple other questions that are coming in in the chat and Peter is asking or saying in the situation where the app is stateful he's still missing how open shift determines there are no more sessions on a and now a can be stopped. He's a little right. So the as I said before right the open shift will send a termination signal to a part when you are asking it to shut the pod down and the termination signal is can be listened to by the application. Now if you want a graceful termination your application should not accept any new connections but service the or the existing connections before it it shuts down. So there is it's it's not a complete open shifts responsibility it's like open shift will enable you to like there is a termination signal and there is a kill signal and there is a gap in between those two and you can I believe you can configure that but between this time before the kill comes in there is a chance for your application to gracefully shut down. So I think I have to probably go back and research more on the topic and probably come out with an example at some point of time in the future but that yeah I don't have a example as an answer to that question but we need to work on it more to come back with an example for future that I think that'll be another little video blog post shortly I can I can see that one coming the distinction between termination and kill yeah how to handle that gracefully Randy is asking what exactly needs to be done to an application to enable the servicing of existing systems but not allow new sessions new sessions are you suggesting that application should now completely control session management and I think this is more to the same topic yeah it's the same topic yeah I think I'll I'll get into more details and probably answer this question as a blog post or yeah yeah so I think that's that's definitely a topic for the next one yeah and that people are going back and forth giving each other suggestions now on how to do this gracefully but some of the burden here is on the application to be built gracefully so that it shuts down gracefully I think that's it's pretty clear to everyone in the chat as well would be nice if we could do everything on open shift for everyone but there's a little bit that you have to architect into your applications as well I'm looking and there we go are there any other questions at the moment that people have or anything else that you'd like to share? No I'm I'm done with what I wanted to say but thanks for thanks for attending though yeah I thank you all for all for joining us today I'm really pleased to have gotten this topic aired and you'll well Mateus is asking one more question and I'm not sure Vera knows the answer to this one but will we see this on the console? See what? You could clarify that yeah maybe it has I have to read the other things before that question to understand the AB deployment blue green deployments or something or you know adding this kind of feature that onto the console web console itself like a button or something to AB deploy my app okay yeah yeah I don't know that answer to that question I'll have to check with the powers that you on the road yeah the road map and the Trello board I haven't seen that request come in but there you go so there's a couple of things the link will be on for this recording will be on the briefings page on the commons.openshift.org site should be up probably tomorrow sometime and you can also if you've logged in through Bleachings you can log back in the same way and you'll be able to see the video as soon as I it gets compiled and reposted back up to Bleachings today but if you look back tomorrow it will be on the briefings page so there you go thank you again Vera I'm sure we'll have you back again soon always informative and thank you everybody for joining us today thank you Diane thanks everyone