Normally it does capture all this by the way. I did go back and edit it out last week, but we'll see what happens Good Yeah, so right now. It's just it's just waiting We'll see if it if it comes up Said you we just went live Hey, there it is. All right, we're good Hello, everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always. He's on vacation, but there's no vacations from Warhammer. It's my my constant companion Tom How you doing, buddy? Hello friends Also joining us this week very happy to have him back on the show the man still waiting for a book We've got almost every almost every army touched, but his remains. It's Hey, whoa, Twitch. What's up, brother? So That's right. Make stone skeleton great again. We all can support that I think as I said to to you Hey, well before we went live, this is all gonna work in your favor the fact that you've had to wait this long just means that When it actually comes out, it's gonna be awesome, right? So there you go Yeah, they've only been getting more interesting and better at writing rules. I Yeah Couple couple there's some wobbly bits in there as they say but you know for the most part we're good Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's you know, there was there was two books that were questionable There's one book that's fine that everybody hates and everything else is great. So that's fine No issues there at all Fight me Rob. All right. So at any rate Tonight we're gonna talk about We're gonna talk about cities of Sigmar. We're gonna deep dive on it. I am very excited about this I'm super excited about this book more excited than I thought I was gonna be this has just been a great week of like reading through this and the Orc book I've been so excited Got the new gaming book to did not realize it was that small I opened like cuz I I ordered it and then I opened the box that Alice in it and I was like Oh, it's a little baby book. That's fine. It's still good has everything I wanted in it So I'm I'm more than happy like if I'm willing to buy limited edition generals handbooks every year Money on the gaming book fine with me. You got me. You got me GW good. Good. Go. Good. Go Okay All right. So Tom what do we got for news? Room wrenching yeah, we're not doing that Tom Walton sculpted I know that cuz he shared the picture today and he only shares the room wrenching pictures of stuff He sculpted that doesn't mean anything. I'm just saying like he sculpts a lot more 40k stuff than fantasy But he does plenty of fantasy stuff too that being said it's a 40k thing It's not ko it's a 40k thing There you go So, yeah, it's it's sad It's it looks it's way too put together and and you know, so whatever there you go Oh, well What else we got? What are you drinking? Uh a pina colada like my wife made and I probably have more on the way. So this is what happens on vacation Sure, what I would like to be without a pina colada. Sure. I mean, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. It's just delightful That's all I'm saying. It's really addictive actually I think last time you were on vacation.  Yes Which was the pina colada strawberry daiquiri mix But the reality is is that like my kids are out running around and so I like lock them out of their bedroom And i'm doing the show from their bedroom. Good. Good. Good choice. Good choice. Yeah, well done Thanks. Thanks. All right. So yeah, what else we got? Uh, I don't know. Um, we got the article from warhammer, uh community, which was the Um the two new mounted characters. Yeah, you look really nice for the bone daddies. Yes I love the call out that the that it's actually like a dark reflection of the bone daddy, right the drake off the lord on drake off Like I love that call out.  They're meant to be Nagash's reflection of that like he's manufactured his own elite soldiers by sticking together He if he can't get one really good soul, he's just shoved together four You know decent ones, right? Like totally four average people can take down one pretty good person That's that's just the rules right there. So well, I'm just saying if you want these things Like and you want to do a conversion army like death cast internals super easy to do sure You know like and getting a hold of those models is not hard So something to think about hey, well, what'd you think of the uh of the the two characters that we saw them now in more detail I continue to really like the uh, the bone boys I continue to not remember what their actual name is because I called them the bone boys immediately and it got locked inside my brain never to be extricated but Um, yeah, I just I like these a lot. I like the napoleon kind of Sure, you know the one guy's mount. I like how very much is like a kind of a vandus hammer hand except facing the other direction I thought that was a cool little reference If it was on purpose, I think it was And the non here are like the non named version. I assume the the first one in the other The liege cavodals or whatever they're called. Yeah, which is a great name By the way, I like I like the naming schemes so far of this man that horse is like extra thick. Look at that So much so much armor and bone and then armor stuff over the bone reminds me of uh Reminds me of his oh what do you call him more tart or not more tarks? Blinking the more gas. Yeah, the more gas very similar to that. Yep And yeah, this is just I'm like residually excited for my friends that are in death That always wanted, you know, big cool stuff. Yeah, I gotta say time has soured me on this army Like I just I'm not interested anymore I'm glad people are like our our our our mutual buddy. Mr. Meff is obviously like beyond excited And I'm thrilled for him because he's over the moon and I I love that I'm excited, but just like As more time has gone on I've had more time to really see them up close I'm just like, yeah, there's little things that that at first we're just like, maybe that's not so bad But now it's actually bothered me more and more just like little aesthetic details The thing that does not bother me is their smiling faces I don't know why that bothers everybody. That actually makes them look great and creepy smiling skeletons Yeah, are great I think that's one of the good parts about it I feel like these people never watched army of darkness and learned how skeletons are supposed to have, you know, expressive faces That's awesome. Oh, they're just like big kabuto masks made out of bones with right super huge chins and smiley faces It's it's nice. I like it Yep But I'm uh, I'm excited to see that uh that people love it. So good I it'll be a cool addition to death and frankly Great and it hopefully forever seals that tomb kings never come back take that. All right, so Man, I hope those I hope those catapults are good They don't have a great track record with big artillery like that. I hope they managed to Swim through the currents and manage to be good. All right. Here we go. Let it ready. Let's do this real quick What what are the rules? What are the rules for the catapult go? It's obviously giant right because it's unlike the night titan base It's a major artillery piece So let's sketch out some rules. Hey, well take a shot. Where would you where would you like to begin? um Uh, well they removed see they removed the not needing line of sight from some artillery spoilers ahead in cities of sigmar And I was going to say that If that's just a phased out rule or what but if it belongs anywhere it belongs in a massive catapult that Gives a big arc. I agree. This should not need line of sight with that 100 hoping for that It's got all sorts of little like wiggly bone legs and stuff on the bottom of it. Yeah Assuming they can move pretty decently Yeah, I'm hoping it can move pretty decently not just like a four You know something some really slow, you know ponderous cavalry or artillery like that It looks like it throws one thing Agreed. Yep. It's definitely not a rapid fire weapon, right? Yeah, and you you and I both know the man fed tom the mathematical Challenge like it could be twos and twos and that's still a tough call It could be twos and twos a rend two, you know d6 damage. It's still no good man. Like, uh I hope it's really expensive and And can throw either multiple things or just like has rules to deal damage, you know kind of like You know the lightning The scaven lightning shooter Yep But yeah, I'm like a hurricane Concerned because it looks like it shoots one thing and stuff that looks like it shoots one thing tends to just Rolls wise do it like zygore. Sure and It's never a good avenue to go down All right, doom. That is terrible rules you just put in the chat. That is awful On forces we rose against units of ten or more wounds on two That better be like 60 points if that's what you're talking about. That is awful. That is god awful That thing is so iron blaster turtle. Yeah That thing is so big. That's almost as bad as the uh as the pestilence catapult. Yeah, sure. All right. Here we go Here's my shot. I believe him. It's believable that those would be the rules. I would just be very disappointed. That's all Here's my ideal rule set.  Let's get into this. Okay A lot of artillery we've seen has gotten pretty cheap.  Let's go to 250. All right. Now, what are we gonna get for 250 points? Here's my answer Doesn't need line of sight rule one rule two Okay, let's bring back the old trebuchet rules from burtonia You roll a die when you instead of making a hit roller before you make the hit roll You roll a die if the number you roll is less than the number of models in the unit less than not less than or equal to less than You hit automatically Okay, that was the old burtonian trebuchet rule. Okay in a os great rule May it highly incentivize you to go after big big groups, right? Which is what giant catapults like this should be doing not trying to drop a rock on your one character This should be like this is their their anti infantry clearing, right? Okay, so there it's that rule, right?  It's time to go 2d6. Let me go farther. Okay. Let me go a step farther All right. You're ready Okay, uh, if you roll an unmodified six to wounds 12 It's just you just max the dice. It just deals max damage not mortal wounds You just treat the dice roll as 12 your 2d6 is 12 Okay, okay, right. I was I was thinking 2d6 if it's a double extra d6 or something like that Oh, there you go. That could be another way. Yeah, the point is make it unbelievably deadly to big giant hordes, right? And that's sort of their anti horde option So it is so we've seen it with two different Loadouts on the model. Yeah Um, so it may have two different types of ammunition or there may be two buildouts of this thing um, one of them I would speculate is a um, ignore line of sight but pick a point on the battlefield Um, and then everything with an x number of inches does why? Oh, sure. That could be another way to go. Yeah, the old like actually like you're actually dropping the rock Yeah, equating the pipe late. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and so I could imagine a world where it does something like that and um And you roll a dice for every unit on a like so maybe this is the magical version not the like rock version um every unit within uh, you roll dice uh on a four plus every unit within the uh each roll dice for each unit Four plus, you know does like a d3 or 2d3 mortals or something Somebody in chat mentioned that it has to have minus two bravely bravery for anything it hits Well, then it would be a bravery bomb, wouldn't it indeed? Yes. No, no, that's not the right rule doom It wasn't minus two bravery for anything it hits if we're really going to knock off the tomb king's rule All I had to do was shoot at the thing and it they that unit got neg two bravery It didn't require the hit or the wound. It was just like Then you could do that for my mortal wounds idea on the four plus You could do that and you could say that anything that is in the area gets naked bravery flat Sure, sure and then the chance it also does mortals or whatever like if ghosts comes You know spewing out of the tomb rocks or whatever sure my most favorite rule in the universe remembering negatives to bravery The most impactful thing that no one ever remembers Another interesting way that they could twist it is instead of doing that It could it could immediately force a battle shock test In the shooting phase. Oh, yeah, like the ear booster can like the ear booster. Sure. Yeah, right And they could do that where like maybe the so maybe one of them is like just straight damage Like a big rock or whatever like you guys are taking it and the other is like a magical one where Like it does mortals and forces a battle shock check Sure. Oh, yeah, and it forces it during the shooting phase.  It's like this big ghostly skull Golden axe, you know it comes down and it's Oh, and then since it's death you could have some clever like rules templating and say like You know hit in wound rolls from this model have ethereal And then intuitively the person just knows. Oh, okay. So there, you know It knows look out sir. I can't get minus one and stuff like that. Right. It's an interesting flip around on that Uh, nice. All right. So yes, we got those two. That was a long fun. That was a long fun tangent. All right, so, uh So, yeah, we got that we got those characters. I think they look good I'm not interested. I might just because the more I've looked at them like I don't like them But I'm glad that people do and those look cool I do those two characters are I think the coolest looking dudes out of the army Other than lord krakatoa himself who is like the ballerest of ballers I know I will pick up and paint that thing because come on now. Come on. Oh, yeah Come on now bone chat is really something special. He is He's given you a diorama already. Yeah He thought ahead.  I'm gonna put myself on a diorama for you exactly The number of like diorama entries and painting competitions like in the diorama category that will just be him right Just like stock Is going to be very funny. Yes Uh hot tip. Is he a model or is he a diorama? I guess that's whatever the person thinks the weaker competition is when they're submitting it Well, it's going to be an interesting problem at golden demon because like traditionally single like single figure is that that's the name of the category Hey, it was a single figure like he's one guy and sure sometimes like even in single figure You'll see people have like other dead Figures in the on you know as part of the base or a nirgling jumping around or you know, whatever, right? But like there's one central figure This is really pushing it if you put this guy in single figure Like now there's seven other people hanging out on this dios. What are you talking about? There's a party up in here When you're paint judging it you have to judge all his routine you first before you can judge him Just like his rules. That's a good point. Exactly. Yeah, if you if you fail You could just get you get to the samurai guy and be like up and they could be like Well, I did a really good job on on uh, you know lord krakatoa there and I'll be like well I'm sorry. I couldn't beat the samurai you failed on him. So Yeah, that shacks that tracks All right, uh, what else we got tom? What's next on the news? Uh next month's white dwarf, uh, host uh Of uh, celeski. Yeah and four new battalions That's right. Not that Not that you can actually you can't like use it in events or anything, but you could at least like play it I mean, you don't know that that's not going to be pointed and perfectly fine And it doesn't matter like they even they even said on the faq anything that's not um in the general Oh, get out of here tom get out of here You can't you can't do the fire slayer stuff. It's set it in the faq So nobody else gets to have fun dole is either Uh, one no two I'm sure many toos would allow it three. I don't care. I would use it in my basement game anyways Again, there is a difference between matched play and competitive play Sure. Uh, so whatever Um as as gw themselves have recently discussed by decided by talking about how they're going to add points into legends as they should have And just said it's not for competitive play. It's just for matched play. Well done. Sure Uh, that that is a valid distinction that like yeah of the greater universe of games played as matched play Probably 90 plus are not competitive games in that in that sense of the word, right? They are just matched play games you are playing amongst two people at a store or in your basement or whatever They might be played in a competitive fashion, but they aren't tournament style competitive games anyway, uh so Cool. I mean, I'm excited about that. Seleska is like my favorite romantic couple of the mortal realms And uh, they're a great model and I've always used Seleska in my army. Uh, she has to stay home for holy havoc Uh next uh next month sadly, uh just because I couldn't fit that many characters in Uh, you know, I most of my list is characters. Let's not lie here. Even at a thousand points I'm shoving in every character I can But Seleska sadly had to sit by the sidelines so Darn but I'm excited I I think if there's anything we as a community need it's more support for slanesh I really feel like we've been underserved, you know, yeah Yeah Just really that book came out and then frankly no one's even been talking about it And that just really hurts me because it feels like it's not uh, it needed more attention It was such a great moment of celebration after so many years of non-attention So I'm glad this will bring it back into the back into the consciousness You're a terrible person And no one agrees with you I don't know on their web store for a week like when you tried to click on stormcast It would actually just link you right to the slanesh thing. I found it strange. It seems that seems like absolutely correct Yes, I think all links should just redirect or at the very least There should be a pop-up when you go to anything else and select it. We're just like boop. Did you really want to go to slanesh instead? Yeah, like the paperclip. Let me help you out here. It seems like you're trying to leave slanesh behind It's like a theme that Prince does for you. Yes Exactly the dark prince has plans for you. Come on over here where all the good stuff is it's fun Uh It's good stuff. All right. So anyway, yeah, I'm excited about that Uh, do we have anything else? I don't think we have anything else. It was a slow news week Which is good. Good. I want to get right into the cities as quick as possible. Next up next thing Pick of the week Joe, what would you like to share with everybody? You got anything exciting you want to share? Uh, well, I've been in radio silence and 110 busy the last two and a half weeks. Yes, so Uh, my uh, my pick of the week is what it would have been two and a half weeks ago so if you've heard this Apologies, but uh My friend mr. Mofisto has started randcast and by started. I guess I mean been doing it for almost a month now and um Please do check it out. It's on twitch Although it's everywhere else too because he learned how to put his podcasts up on places people use, you know Like apple store. I think or just stuff, you know, I have yet to figure this out because I'm still new at this I just do youtube But um, yeah, it's a good time He has a whole bunch of guests on and it's pretty much just hot takes top to bottom Which can be a lot of fun and there's a lot of chat interaction Always reading and responding to chat and stuff which is a little different than Uh, youtube in that regard But yeah, it's it's fun and I recommend you should watch it Friends it is and plus he has a corgi that will sometimes make an appearance.  Yeah, that's uh, that's a shame. I don't think I've never had that and never will And people don't read words, but they will read pictures of words 2019 So, wow. Yeah, there it is Okay, all right. See this is why my this is why my thumbnails always fail because I've just I'm very utilitarian I'm just like, nah, it's good. So thank you all loyal viewers for people who just maybe you clicked on this for the first time Welcome. I'm excited that you decided to to click on this weird thing Good stuff You're awesome. Uh, all right, tom. What's your pick of the week? Oh We lost tom. He's gone. We lost him. That's fine. I'm sure I'll be back in a minute That's one way to handle not being prepared for a pick of the week. I should have done that He was like, I've got nothing He pulls the it pulls the ripcord. I'm gonna pick of the week. Oh, I'm lagging. I don't uh Exactly, I'll go with my pick. Uh, so my pick was actually sent to me by uh, our buddy domus Domus who yes to of midwest meltdown and all around one of the most awesome people in the world Sent me a link to a new battle report channel called partners at war Which is like a husband and wife playing warhammer and and battle reporting it Uh, and so I'll link down below in the show notes. The episode is like corn versus uh Gets so it's a lot of fun Uh, as there's a bunch of bloodthirsters getting in fights with trolls and troll hags. They both play very fun armies That's a great. Yeah. It's so it's it's real cool and they they like They're both clearly like not being hyper competitive So which would be very strange with your partner, I assume Oh, but it's a competitive game it but it's just it's a fun game is my point and they go back and forth So, uh, it's it's good. Check it out. I'll link that down below Hopefully tom will come back here in the next minute, but we'll but nonetheless. He can share his pick then if he wants to Until then. Oh, hey, there he is. See just like that. I was just about To go away from you tom tom. What's your pick of the week? Tom are you back? Yeah, there you go. What's your pick of the week tom? I don't have one fair enough Tom's pick of the week is he's on vacation and he hasn't even like I've been lucky to get two words in with him This week. I swear to god. He has been he has just been checked out and you've had a rough week. So that's okay Yeah, uh I I I bought a new car today and on vacation thousands of miles from your home because your car broke down Not because you're living that like I'll just randomly buy a new car lifestyle. You want to catch cash that my friend My car blew up. That's the kind of week that I'm having Um, but I got to go to galaxy's edge at disney world and it was fantastic There you go. That's your pick of the week. So galaxy's edge. It was cool. Yes Hey, there was a video vince you talked about a video that uh, if you want to see a cool breakdown of galaxy's edge Not that jenny nicolson needs me talking about her. She has Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subs and thousands hundreds of thousands people watch every video But she does an awesome breakdown of galaxy's edge. Yeah, yes Go check it out. There you go. There's my pick of the week Cool fair enough see we got there tom teamwork makes the dream work my friend All right, so let's talk about some hobby time. Hey, well, you're back home for this long trip. You're back at your desk Uh, have you started working on anything yet and or what are you going to be working on? Oh, yeah, um, since I have a little bit of free time now that i'm back I've spent all of it working on my next show Because people have been waiting a long time But what I did do was I spent money and stuff was brought to me which is like hobby And that's tom's favorite hobby. Yeah, I was gonna say um, and so I've got some ogre things that have only just arrived Some uh iron guts which i'm going to use the top halves of and some other stuff that i'm Long story short. I'm frankensteining some together a lot of beast claw stuff In preparation for the book that's surely coming out tomorrow and will be amazing I have no doubt that any day now could be this sunday They make the announcement that next saturday it goes on uh on pre-order. Good. I'm thinking january 2020. It's in us But you know what I like surprises I think it'll drop pretty fast when it drops because as I said, I really don't drop the phone boys, right? You know, yeah around the same time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah And I mean, I think it's a plastic butcher and plastic Uh Other tiring tyrant. Yeah, I think we'll get a box, right? We're like you think we're gonna get a combo box bones versus guts Yep, something there could be a new getting started They just showed that they're willing to do getting started with book drops as a way to supplement product True, but I mean you think they would do the new hero in that I mean the higher price point would be just to do them in like single plastic Can can I stop stop us real quick and just highlight the fact that Arch region still aren't out yet in single single model Take a right. Let me help you out ready. Here you go. You scourge wings. You can get them anywhere There's lots of them or any other tiny wing or vargulf wings or whatever, right? You you got a gulking, right? Staple a little tiny wings on him Ta-da arch region. Like guys. Look, you know, I made two more bombardiers I took extra hellstorm rocket batteries Like for the rockets that you get extra and I put them on warlocks guys. It's not hard Okay, but like how are we this far out? That's what I'm saying. Like we're what seven months later eight months later I don't know, but I know I paid like zero dollars for my additional warlock bombardiers And I'd be paying like many I'd be paying more dollars than that if they released the clamp pack So zero dollars was better than note or was better than more dollars I'm just saying it's not hard if you're playing flesh eaters. You already have extra gulkings I guarantee it Because they're all basically any gul can be a gulking.  That's the only difference Yeah, same side put a rock under and put some wings on his back Easiest conversion ever. You're not having to like scratch build a an iron clad here. Okay. Like get get out of here So so actually with that, let me let me do a related Acknowledgement slash news slash thing that just dawned on me Hey, let's let's have some speculation a short speculation moment And talk about what we think the four armies boxes are going to be Oh, okay. Because so we're very soon now. We're gonna they're going to announce the the brand new You know battle force boxes for um Christmas Yep So what are they? Battle force box is one army Normally it's it's about 300 dollars worth of product normally Um, and it and it runs 180 170 to 180 retail like that's normally the discount that you're getting on most of those boxes Um, I don't know the raw point points. I just know that like what the retail discount normally is because sure I'm a nerd No problem Are they usually new armies or old armies or they're normally armies that got released that year Well, there's it's a mix. It's often a little bit of a mix. It'll be like two and two or three and one They'll often right have an older force in there, too Well, a lot of armies are getting released. Yeah, sure from even if it's just this year Right, right. And that's that's the point is that normally like it kind of wrote itself like last year it wrote itself Because we got like daughters doc Slaves the darkness, which is the really weird one Which is whatever I thought we had a new army coming with them So slaves the darkness because normally they do like three old ones and then one new forthcoming army Like two years ago.  I know that one daughters. Ida neth Slaves and then something else. I don't remember what the the fourth one was But okay, so what do you guys think so we have a lot of armies picked from this year sure Gets a many people in the comments have said gets I agree with that completely Yeah, um that one just I think it'll be it'll be heavy. I think it'll be heavy, uh squigs, too Like it'll be bodies and squigs like it'll have a mix of all of it Sure, sure. Well, I mean it'd be mostly the newer plastic stuff Which means it's going to be squig heavy in some way right because a lot of the new like Hoppers and bounders and stuff, you know, uh Uh, how about uh a slanesh box seems excessive. I think that's appropriate um, it seems excessive. Yeah, uh Worklands just got souped together and so they each had like individual boxes from a long time ago Maybe it's time for uh start collecting work lands where it's, you know, some bone splitters mind jaws. Maybe Be a thing sure.  Yes agree. Yeah, that's that's a slam dunk Like it's got it's got gourd rack. It's got a whole bunch of arrow boys. It's got, you know, some art boys No, no, it probably wouldn't have a mall crusher because they don't generally include those models Oh, wait. Yeah, that would be too huge for a box, wouldn't it it would be but But I think but nonetheless, I think you're Drycha drycha was in the silver silver enough a couple years ago. So I mean like the $80 models not the $130 models All right, there's so like you can put manfred or whatever, you know that build in there But you're not going to put in a gosh in there. That's the point, right? Right. So because there's like a point. But anyways, yes, there will be a big wall box. That just makes sense I disagree. So I think that we'll get one from each grand alliance. I think we'll get gets as our destruction I think that we will because normally it's not the it's not the armies normally that have released in the fall Like normally it's the early year stuff So I'm I'm actually going to go with gets I I agree on slanash I think it'll be slanash And it'll probably maybe be celeski to line up with the Oh, that that that's why they're putting in the october thing. Sure. Yeah, so celeski would be the primary hero in there um I think it'll be uh I think flesh eater courts as death Um, that seems like low-hanging fruit. That's easy for them to do that. They haven't done yet um, and I think that will probably I would actually say that the fourth one would be uh a city's sigmar box Not because they've already done sylvaneth before they could do sylvaneth again But I think with cities they can clear out a bunch of inventory and mix up a bunch of kits that they haven't done But like they haven't put in a box together before so have some elves dwarves and humans sure All kind of special Yes, they've probably got plenty of those models lying around so sure Right like so it just makes sense kind of like I could see them do like the dwarf uh iron drake kit the Like a demi griffs a griffin And uh shadow warriors or something, you know, it's like some mix of all of that. Um, yeah That's all fine I hope they blow us away and do like a couple battle forces for two different cities again Like they did with those city boxes, but like they didn't cover all the cities Give us some of the other cities they didn't do that'd be cool Like I have a tempest I box and I love it like I still last time they did what hammer hall tempest I an anvil guard Yeah, and I keep my like I have that box on my shelf like because it's a beautiful box Like I love the design of that box.  Sure Yep, there you go. All right cool Uh, we'll know in a couple weeks when they announce them.  We're all at holy havoc Of course it will it's that it's that uh saturday there or friday friday night. It's that friday night. Yeah, nice Nice. So there you go Uh, cool All right, so at any rate tom hobby time What are you working on back at home still ghosts them ghosts gonna be ready Uh, yeah, I mean I have the finishing touches on my three heroes to do like they need to be finished Like I'm almost done with my base coats and then I'll do some highlights and stuff like that I'm not going too crazy and then I have to do my chariot and then some endless spells, but I'm having more fun with the endless spells anything so cool Yeah, uh, so I've had a I've had a semi frustrating week in hoppy time to be completely honest Um, I finished up my warlord for holy havoc and I'm real happy with her Um, she's So I used the one of the verringard Like, you know, because I wanted to use the very I've been I've had been sitting on a verringard box that I'm going to convert over to Be slaneshi verringard and then they'll also stand in as like the appropriate 75 mil Based characters like cavalry characters. So I can use it as like a demonic Uh, a chaos lord on demonic mounts Or of slanesh or this warlord or whatever or or verringard when you put all three together It can just be the verringard And so I I did her up and I was real happy with her and that's fine But like there was no great love for it halfway through the project. I was about right to throw her against a wall Uh, and then I finished her and I put together the other Uh, this girl. Oh, they also announced it doesn't have anything to do with aos But they put to the I don't know if I can see that or not. It's the it's the sister's a battle special character The or not special character. I'm sorry. The sister's a battle. Um Uh Sister superior or whatever they that's going to be in the box set that they gave us at at nova And I put her together and I've got her all punk rocked out in the way I want and then I sat down to paint her and was like I have no idea What I actually want this to look like and realized I have no paint scheme For this sister's army like it's one of those cases where be careful what you wish for like I've wanted to This army for so long and now I have no idea how to paint it and I I've tried a hundred different, uh 100 different schemes and Could not for the life of me Come up with a paint scheme or a color. I like I hate all of the stock orders I think they're all garbo.   They're just all so flat They're just flat And I Just cannot figure out exactly what I wanted to paint it. So I was like fine.  Thank you dumb Yeah, I'm working on it. Thanks. It is a, um It's a gorgon converted to be a Uh beast of chaos keeper of secrets. It's got the keeper's claws on top and then like the whip and the A different weapon and stuff and so, you know, it's can you turn a gorgon into a keeper of secrets? And the answer is most certainly yes Uh, so this will be my male beastie keeper of secrets for the depraved drove because why not? I guess I said I was done with slanesh But it's just it's time to be excessive. I can't I can't stop myself And I've just been painting this thing and not enjoying it because whatever, but it's fine I'm going to get through it. Sometimes we just power through And uh, I find myself in a bit of a like I'm just like I want to work on a golden demon thing Like I've got 20 things I want to work on and zero things I want to work on. That's the problem I don't have anything that's really hit in that sweet spot Uh, but I have a question that I want the audience to start thinking about now Which is and it's going to come up later in our city's discussion Which is if you wanted to use some gyrocopters But you didn't want to use gyrocopters Like let's say you wanted to use gyrocopters, but you really hated the existing model But I mean You've already asked yourself and you asked me to choose, right? Yes. I did I tech. What's that? I'm sorry. Go ahead anyone.  I did it. It was actually really easy. All right, carry on. All right, great So you've pretended that way because we all do because it's a not very attractive model. They're just silly Copter and bomber by the way Like I don't like dwarfy things and I don't like the look of those things But I like the idea of the thing So I need some kind of proxy or stand-in or thing I can convert or whatever And I have no idea the oh, this is the closest I can come up with You two won't be able to see that's what I'm gonna. So I've had I had this image queued up for this discussion Uh bow Is this thing? Oh, it's kind of blocked here. I'll pull it out There you go is these are the reavers from the jukari. So it's a single person jet bike okay, yep and uh I like the look of these and you get three in a box which is cool because you can take three gyrocopters in a unit You can get three of these for cheaper and they're about the right size Um, that is to say like they're on gyrocopters and stuff are on like and bombers are on like a 50 mil round Or whatever and these guys are on a like about the same size base um So like I think this would be a cool Thing. I just don't know if it's too techie. I don't know. I don't know. Let me let me bring our people back here Like I'm not down with it Like I get what you're doing But Somebody said fight obamas from aeronautica imperialis. Yeah the the little mini full size 40k planes I think they're a little too small. I did look at that Let me say it this way. I it depends on what you're making. Okay, so if you want to do something like um Not ambilver if you wanted to do something like this is a tempest eye army Oh, it's a tempest eye army. Hmm a tempest eye army. I would definitely do some type of modified endring thing I would go spend the eight or ten bucks on For the smaller endrings from the frigate. Yeah Um and do like little mini endrings so that they're bigger than the endring rigor endrings But they're smaller than the full ship endrings And so I would do or the uh the smaller endring from the ironclad that would also work Uh because and then it with it being tempest eye. It's like obviously in theme with ko If you were doing something like living city, I would do hawk riders Like dropping. Yeah boring No, I like I like I want it to be technical in some way. I don't want it to be Not just your magical wings. Yeah, I would do any end rings are the right way to go boring I'm not doing entrance. I thought about that. He could just cannibalize a bunch of those But no, I don't like the globes that much Uh And like the steam tank with ko balloon somebody Anthony said that in the chat like that's what ben did for his flying steam tank I have no problem with that like I was originally thinking about that same thing But I was like no I want to go different than that like I want to hold different I want to unify the aesthetic of an army here and so that's what I've been trying to think about Uh shout out to autumn lotus who said have you seen the disney atlanus movie make them like those kind of jet bikes And that is a hot pick That is a hot pick Like I dig that All right, you could use zeppelins Get the balloons the smaller zeppelin balloons from titan forge And you could do zeppelins.  That's cool. That's that's very rocketeer Right and so I'm down with that and I think that's kind of the aesthetic That I like like that that sort of art deco type of thing I think would be a cool aesthetic for an army I just don't know how I would I don't know how I would pull that off but it's you know But that those jet bikes aren't you could turn them into that they have those hard clean lines, right? Which is what that art deco needs um Yeah, at any rate, uh, so speaking of uh Let's talk about some cities guys We've finished all this other stuff. Let's get into the cities All right, all right uh so Gentlemen, let's start with a 40 000 foot view as usual to begin with the overview Hey, well kick us off. What do you think overall the city's a sigmar book after after looking at over? What's your what's your initial Take on it I like it I think it's It's very interesting what they did um Without you know jumping too far ahead A lot of the jobs The things could have The war scrolls have kind of moved towards each other in a way so you have like fast cavalry from this race fast cavalry from this race fast calvary from this race was shooting fast cavalry from this race was shooting and then like You know elven sword master style humans elven sword master style dwarves elven sword master style elves or something and They've kind of homogenized it a little bit But there's key differences and generally the hero Of whatever race that is is kind of giving them a bonus or two or just some different thing So friends some don't like the points are different by you know 10 20 30 sometimes, but for the most part you have all these you have races that generally have a unit per job that you would want an army to have and reasonably equivalent with some wiggle room Units in every other race that kind of do those things And then you have all these cities that these people can be from with Some sort of rule that Is going to oblige you to move your list building in some direction like whatever your play style happens to be for the most part And so you're like You can at at the same time Be a hammerhall army and so is your friend And all of your hammerhall guys are dwarves And all of his are elves and a quarter storm cast right each of the ones If you're building them similarly, it's like okay. Here's my fast unit. Here's my anvil stuff. Here's my hero on a thing but it allows you to Use the play style you want And for the most part pick up your your old stuff from the race that you liked and kind of plop it in whatever city you want and Be reasonably okay like our our hammers That much worse than greats orders not really If you're using their heroes and their synergies and everything you zoom out a little bit and You know, they didn't go too far with the Maginization which is always a danger because then everything's the same and nothing's interesting But did it just enough? I think that You can take your old race or your old faction that you like and plop it in A play style that you also like and Not suffer too greatly for it Obviously there's just going to be like because Usually, you know, it's pretty much a numbers game. There's just going to be a best right grindy foot hero There's just going to be a best cavalry in the book And so yeah, you can just choose that but You know, if you're like, you know what I just like wildwood rangers, man And I know such and such the thing is is better, but I like them and I'm going living city And it's all the wood elves working together again a larryl forgave them in the lore and now they're their buddies and you know It's still cool and there's so much customization you can do with it. It's like infinite. It's so great Yeah, I will say I think I agree and I think that that answer of like, what is the appropriate thing can oftentimes change Based on the city and the exact synergies that you're trying to necessarily go with like yes in the void I think oftentimes there can be like a mathematical one But when you're playing certain synergies or playing to the strengths of certain cities that answer might change sometimes Not every time but sometimes and I think that's nice and I agree with you It's not like if you want to do this other racist thing you're going to be that far off in a lot of cases um and in fact You might then be better served depending on what's going on depending on what your overall kind of plan is Uh, yeah, right on totally totally good. Good take. Tommy. What about you? You're thinking tom that doesn't make for great tv I know Um, I don't have to hurt any feelings here I mean You all know what you're in for um, no, I mean the reality is that like I like the book a lot I really do Um, I think that they did uh, gw did an excellent job with the book um, I think that they're um I think that there are Some weaknesses to the book and I think we'll get to that. That's what I'll say Okay, fair enough Uh, for my money, uh, my 40 000 foot view is I am I am greatly impressed that for the most part they made Five to six of the cities Be feel like they are interesting choices that all have potential play And armies that can work with everything in here that I see like lots of different potential builds And I only spot one city that's like Below the curve and one city that's above the curve and like really that's pretty good by the standards of most of these books and like You know Even then they're not as bad Potentially depending on a particular FAQ answer. We'll get to that when we get there We'll get there folks. We're gonna get there. Okay. It's coming. The discussion is coming, but we'll get we'll get there Yeah, and the ones that aren't above or below the curve, which is only two of them. I think yeah, I agree Are good like there's nothing usually wrong with most of them Nope In fact, most of the armies I've been building has been in let's call it the the fat middle of the cities of this book This is the truly fat middle. We got we got five of them hitting in that middle space We got one punch in above and one punch in below, right? Yeah when when I started going over cities, which was recently because I was away Uh, I'm still in like melvin mode when I'm looking through this and so I'm just like Oh, this could be fun. This is a neat interaction. Oh, what if I wanted to build an army themed around this like I'm not quite In okay, what's the best thing mode? You don't want to jump in that too quick. I don't think Especially with a review You know Although it's very fun to talk about Yeah, it's funny because I like I keep I somebody there's some silly stuff in here. We'll just put it that way There is I'm sure everybody knows about it, but there's some other silly stuff as well But you know shout out to cinderfall who said that like This book is usually best when it's played with sort of a mix of races and factions and different things They're all kind of working together in different I'm adding some words to him here But that are acting in different power pairs and like that's what I keep finding too is like I want a little bit of This synergy over here and this energy over here and this engine over here And like I can I can very easily create like three little power pairs That are going to shoot the game plan of what I want to do in this particular city And I tend to have this mix of different races like it actually does feel like most of the armies I've built I've been building cities Armies Right. Yeah, which is yeah such a success rules wise from war because they're melting thoughts Yeah, like it's funny It feels when I'm building armies here Very familiar. It feels like I'm building my dwarf book, right? He's my entire or my dwarf army my entire dwarf army was built on three sets of power port power pairs From three different like racial divisions of dwarfs And it feels uh right is what I would say And I would agree with the events that like that They they divided up those very well Yeah Yeah, so I think the way we want to structure this discussion like many people have done a full breakdown of like everything in the book uh Honest war game or rob did one and and paul has done a breakdown and and doom But he has doomed on his city's win yet. No, he did. I don't remember he did his orc one and that was really good Orc lands. He was still rendering it or something right? Yeah. Yeah, I he'll I'm sure you'll have his city's thing coming But the orc one was great at any rate Uh, the point is that lots of people have gone blow by blow And I'm not really keen to do that, but I do want to structure Our discussion under the the auspice of the city's right because I think that's important to that that is the governing force Uh, by the way I'll predict the thing predictions update Uh, right now Uh on the current predictions, uh, I am in the lead tom is in second and Eric is way way behind poor poor Eric Uh, yeah, oh for what predictions for what? So we did a prediction show two weeks back where we said where we made we each had to make three predictions About the cities of sigmar the orc war clans and the maw tribes the three current upcoming books We each had to make three predictions about what was going to be in them and how they were going to work And and then we had to put money where our mouth is basically 20 bucks a piece So like we all then whoever wins the other everybody buys them a kit is what happens, right? Like the other you're buying a kid That's how it gets cashed out So so are you so yeah, we'll talk about that. That's fine. So how so how far are you in the lead by one? You're right behind me by one I haven't updated it yet. I still need to go continue going through the orc war clans to update it The cities is the funniest what the funniest breakdown tom because you and I went three for three on cities And Eric was you and I went three for three on cities and eric went zero for three Oh poor stone monk He he went he he went uh, he went big though and he went the reason I say this is because he went for the free city generator Right and said like that there would be a way to generate your own cities Oh, yeah for your dudes. Yeah and uh And and tom got the big score because he took a swing and said we will only have the cities from firestorm And you will have to choose to be from one of those cities There's no create your own city and you can't take a generic city which is correct You must which is what I say to transition into governing this discussion Because you must choose a city so real quickly. Let's just lay down the generic stuff uh When you choose a city to sigmar army, you must give it a city keyword from the list below Now, of course, we should say there's no reason you can't do quote-unquote successor cities Which I know many people have already done right like you can you can be You know harrow heart the death version of hollow heart or whatever, you know, I don't know Hey, that's mine. Don't don't Don't take mine. Yes. Yes the horrible generic thing. I just said is in fact your idea tom. That's right Oh, hollow heart not harrow heart. Oh, sorry And it's the living city or You know breathing city or coma city, right gray water fastness is like gray model slowness, right? Yeah, evil guard is is like hammer guard. I guess everything's just a little a little less Yes so Anyway, tempest knows tempest years. Yeah. Yeah for the tempest ears army. Yes Or you could switch the other side. We're the we're the hurricane. I I don't kind of works Army knows typhoon I yeah, exactly Yes, you must choose one of those all of your cities to sigmar wizards Empower endless spells. We did a whole show on that Last week and talked about, you know, the various endless spells and how they get better If your general is six wounds or less He can have a retinue basically The unit has to be between five and 20 models of one wound Or no, sorry not one would do it. This is not the one that cares about that Just you just must have between five and 20 models and then basically if the retinue is near him They can take wounds from the general on a four up And then as well the general can have an adjutant When you choose the general if your general has a wounds characteristic of six or less You can pick one friendly hero to be your adjutant who also Must be six wounds or less and cannot be your general he can't be his own adjutant and he can then if you do so basically Every round on a four up you get a bonus command point And then with all cities one in four of your units can be storm cast So those are our generic rules Yeah, and importantly the storm cast are not allies and they gain the relevant keywords So you're getting you're getting everything with that. No No need to worry. It is also not points limited So like your one and four could be a star drake and that would be fine Yes, I love that. It could be a larry. Oh, it's like what it's just units. That's it. Yep. It's just units So you could have a very easily have a living cities army that has like I'm trying to think of the most expensive potential ally Uh, is one of the is one of the eye is one of the idolons less the air 400 points or less Gotrick's 520 and he breaks the rule. So that would be the most there you go That's fine I was trying to pick something from idk because I thought it'd be funny to have like Because they can be an ally. So like yeah, I love the 420 So like the other 400 so you could do it There you go. So like whichever one of the idolons is 400 and a star drake and a larry all In the living city and it's just like three battle line units of living city people Right we're jumping ahead, but that was exactly what I went to with living city Yeah Because since one in four can be silvaneth and one in four can be stormcast and you have allies How few actual cities units can you include in an army? And how minor can their role be just for extra hilarity? Mm-hmm, and I actually made a list with 300 points of cities units and 1700 points of allarial salston prime concussers a necromancer and skeleton mercenaries For those listening home, please build some really lopsided living city lists and tweet about it You can do the same thing with temp aside by the way. Yeah Yeah, yeah Because you can start throwing in the roll out the ironclad That's fine. Yep I made a a temp aside list with uh an alpha striking star drake Uh nine engine rigors Hold on. I want real quick. I want to answer a comment because I just want to I want to get this out there because I think it's going to be Our future discussion So Dave asked in the in the in the comments Do you think you could get away with playing your dispossessed thunderers as free guild handgunners? The answer is yes. So let me let me I just want to make a very brief blanket statement on this Yet not only can you you should many uh Many like I don't mean you should like if you're not doing that you're doing it wrong What I mean is like many of those Handful of units that got cut are duplicates for things that are still there Archers and infantry with big swords and dudes with guns and stuff like that, right? And these cities are supposed to be a cosmopolitan heterogeneous Mix of the races a la most cities in like d&d Right like this is actually how d&d has been for most of its history Where like you would go into big cities like waterdeep and you would see dwarves and elves and humans and everybody just living side by side And you'd go to the when you saw the city guard. It's not just like all humans And well, they're building in power pairs not exactly side by side. Sure fair enough But the the point is is that yeah a hundred percent like I would love to see Mixed units, you know have some human handgunners and some dwarven thunderers and and whatever like have archer units be mixes of Elf archers and and human archers and whatever. Yes. I put those glade guard to good use after Absolutely You know a six glade guard and then some high elf archers and whatever just same bases it really uh It would look really cool on the table. I think yes. It not only is not only is it fine It's fantastic because it may it's just a great opportunity to build The city how they're supposed to feel so you should not feel bad for a moment I mean, obviously the only rule you need to be mindful of is the basing rule, right?  So okay Reasonable what you see is what you get. Yeah, they should probably have guns, right or whatever Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But like in this case where it's thunders for handgunners. I mean man, that's like That's a that's a dead match. You know what?  Oh, yeah, great cover too. It really is we'll cover It really is a fantastic sigma are a little better, but this one's still pretty good. Mm-hmm Yeah All right, uh, so okay. I'm sorry tom. You were in the middle of something I probably broke your light your your train of thought But it was just like it was so important that I wanted to really like just it hit a button And I wanted to make sure we answered it real quick tom are you That's okay. We were talking about ko and these crazy mixed armies and you said something about Oh Yeah, uh tempest I list with a Alpha striking star drake in rune riggers and And then mercenaries having uh 10 hearthguard berserkers deep striking Sure, sure, why not why not all the best alpha strikers one list? Yeah uh But Tristan said did you all see the dwarves on stilts with extra big axes for great swords? Uh, no, but I think that sounds fantastic On stilts, great. Yeah, the stilts is what really makes that Okay Yeah, yeah uh, all right So gentlemen, I thought we'd go through the cities in order talk about some of like the synergies perhaps the Obvious or not so obvious builds kind of what we see as the potential of it Uh, that sort of thing sound like an okay framework Sounds great. All right I'm just gonna do them in the order in the book So if people have the book they can just float along with us here So let's start with the city that is generally the most well known I actually you two can't see it But I have a picture of it up right now that the people have been looking at for the entire show Which is the city of hammerhall. There's a beautiful piece of art they did with like the uh the With like the portal where there it's on the oxy side and you're looking through the portal at gairan Floating through on the other side. Just like it's one of my favorite pieces of art. They've done for for that Um, so hammerhall Uh, yeah, I mean in general the relevant rules we should mention real fast I'm not going to read through like all the artifacts and stuff like that But I will at the start of all these I'll give a quick breakdown of the city It can be from oxy or gairan and it should be noted that all of these have their realm set In meaning it sets your realm artifacts Uh hammer all has banners held high start of your hero phase you roll a die For each friendly hammer hall unit that has any standard bearers for each six You receive an extra command point not for every standard for every unit that has any standards Uh, if your army includes standard units here. Yeah, no, no us use probably is what they Is what you're kind of push towards there. Yep If your army includes eventus fire strike and he is your general at the start of your first hero phase You get an extra command point Nice try No, it's a it's pretty cool.  Yeah, here's here's a rebate It's like it's like a it is it is truly a mail in rebate offer like we used to offer when I worked at Cop All right You don't take battle shock tests for friendly hammer hall units while they're wholly within your territory Which can be interesting in many games because your territory could be you know Is often not always but often half the board And then they have what I think is a pretty interesting command ability You can use this command ability at the end of the phase Sorry at the end of the combat phase if you do so pick one friendly hammer hall unit wholly within enemy territory Uh and wholly within 12 inches of a friendly hammer hall hero And within three inches of an enemy unit in other words one that's still fighting That friendly unit can fight So kind of neat you can basically if they failed to clean up At the end of combat that they can try to uh, they can swing in and try to clean up And by the way autumn I didn't I'm not going out of order. I'm going in the order They are in this in in this book. I'm not skipping. I'm not like I'm not going out of They don't go alphabetical. So neither did I I don't know why they went in the order They did they don't even go alphabetical in the back with the units listed for points Right and they don't go by race because some races there's like three units of this race here and then like three over here It's it's nonsense. Yes. It's the same reason that hammers of sigmar is the first foremost Right. It's just like this is they it's just it's in whatever order they imagined was appropriate in their mind So at any rate. Yeah, I'm not not going alphabetical Okay, uh at any rate. So that's hammer hall Uh Hey, well, what's your what's your take on on hammer full on hammer hammer hull? Sorry So Their abilities are kind of push pulling you in a in a few different directions. So we have you know, you world ice try to get command points Uh I did the math a little bit if you have three units with banners chance for one or more Command points is like 42 percent if you have five units with it It's about 60 and 20 of that is getting two. So like it's a it's a real It's a real amount of command points reasonably For your army and so you kind of want msu because of that But if you're msu, then you're probably getting wiped out and you don't benefit from the battle shock thing, right? and so It's not that it's pulling you in two different directions.   Yep Yeah, it's egregious though in things like knife to the heart um in some scenarios that are just set up to not like To not do the things you want to do where you're doing them. Yeah um And so like you really need to defend that spot and so you often will need punch to like help clear Clear bodies for the enemy and you actually don't have the punch to where you need it But you do have it on their side assuming you can get things across the table. So it's just I don't know I'm I I have written zero hammer haul lists Well, it's the most here's here's my call on it. I think hammer haul is the most mixed Sort of forces list like what by that what I mean is I don't necessarily mean mixed arms in the traditional sense Although that's fine I mean like mixed forces in that it supports having like one or two decent sized blocks Lots of different chaff and smaller units and like gunners behind and you know things like that where you've got You've got lots of little units that might have banners. So you're just you're not like you're not banking on that strategy It's just a way to get some extra command points, right? Sort of like combined arms. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly And all your choices are just like the best at what they do and then All right, I've taken the best of everything and then here's the thing that just rewards you for being on their side of the table Living through a fight or something right and I would point that like I would also point out that like what's fascinating about this about hammer haul when you dig into things like the You know the traits the artifacts and the spells is that it is an extremely buffing city So what I mean by that is like in the command traits in the in the command traits alone You have a 12 inch bubble re-roll ones to wound and you have a 12 inch bubble Plus one to hit on the charge Right And then in the artifacts You have like the tool up your guy both offensively and defensively right the traditional like plus one to save Or so like you can get your you know your if you want like the the free gill general on griffin at the two up save Great, you know, you can do that or whatever, right? um Or you can tool up his offense with like picking in one of his weapons and uh and increasing the rend by one And damage by one if he's close to an objective, which is cool. Or you can take the twin stone, which is actually really cool right, uh And the twin stone is so it's a cool idea It really is so like use this artifact in each of your hero phases If you do so you pick it's one of its aspects, right? And so the oxy aspect is add one to hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly hammer haul units Holy within 12 of the bearer I would point out that you could stack that with command rate and suddenly everybody around that Dude is plus two to hit on the charge like that's quite a bit of offense, right? Uh, and then or you can pick the guy ran aspect which is roll one die for each friendly hammer haul unit Holy within 12 of the bearer on a four plus you can heal up to d3 wounds Allocated to that unit which is actually like Again could be quite a heal depending on if you've got a couple floating units to sit around behind there Right like if you get in range of let's say five units You proc two or three of those two two or three three two or three d three Healing is not too bad, right? Yeah, and you don't have to choose the realm you're in Right, right, right when you choose the artifact which you would think and then also Choose whichever one every turn. Ah, I would like plus one the attack now Oh next turn. Oh, I got hit. I would like to be healed Kind of like the army of hits on twos almost You're playing free guild. Yep and wings of fire is like Hey, let's make demigrafs into actual Morse our guard now Yeah, absolutely. That's that's what I was going to say too like you look at their spells and it's an interesting mix of like buff debuff damage, right like it's just hit all the Place yes, they're the most even city like that's nothing here is just like blowing the doors off But you have a good selection at kind of all the different angles You got a good solid six out of ten in most different choices It's like the good vanilla city like it's like hammers a stigma Like I think that's why they they launch with this is it's a least specialized The most generalist and just the most kind of middle of the road and that's okay Agreed Yeah, it's not bad to just you know You buff your dudes if you're over there you can fight twice you can make your stuff fly Oh, I need a debuff. I have it I need some damage. I have it. It's It's just all this stuff As far as like the vanilla choice, which it clearly is and supposed to be It's uh more interesting than I thought the vanilla choice would be I'll put it that way Yeah, and I mean like look I'm not gonna lie and say I don't love the idea Of like giving my general the re-roll ones to wound in a radius around And the plus one to hit on the charge and like getting him basically in the middle Of a whole lot of great swords and putting them all on you know Putting them all on like twos to hit and threes re-rolling ones to wound and just like Putting them all on basically ones to hit because they they get another plus one on their own Like making them neck one proof. You know what? I mean like these guys are just It's it's just really strong like these those dudes are gonna go do some work And like that's my big block like that's a big block of relatively efficiently costed Uh potential mortal wound causing dudes who get a bonus to charge And are hitting on ones Been wounding on threes re-rolling ones right like yep seems like a solid unit So yeah, the the beast claw player in me wants to go free guild general and griffin Nine demi griffs cast wings of fire up just leap over the line and sure You know land on top of geminids and still hit on twos and stuff just like whatever let's let's go. I'll tack again Yeah, it uh Even though it's even though it's the default choice. Maybe uh doesn't mean it's not fun Absolutely or couldn't be fun Yeah, so I mean it's just I I think there's a lot of I don't think this one Like I don't think this more than many More than a lot of the rest of the cities it doesn't dictate a particular Force or like build or anything like that like to me hammerhaul truly works with Almost anything that you would want to take out of here, right? Like if you tend to favor dwarves and want to do some dwarven infantry You can make them rock with the various things that are in here If you like like you mentioned demis or if you like the Dark elf infantry or blahs of blahs of blahs of blahs of blah, right? Like almost anybody's going to be tooled up by the bonuses in here and do well As an aside, um, I find there a battalion to also be middle of the road Um, and what I mean by that is that's a good call. We should talk about the battalions in each one Yeah, because every battalion is key to a city And so you only ever get the option of one battalion with any city only one Um, and this battalion I would say is usable. It's a concept battalion So you get basically like a general on griffin and then a bunch of demographs Yep, uh, three to six units of demographs. Um, and it's like doing what's on the label Right. It's like it's doing what it should be. It's making the demographs more usable um, and it's Uh, like I think it's I think it's a good battalion There are some of these battalions that are just non starters Um, but this one is like, yeah, I think it's I think it's doable And I think I think it would it makes the list like it gives strong options. Let me say it that way Yeah, it's it's no order to conus of old, you know alpha strike kind of Oh, right, uh, and did man, it's a lot of demographs. It has you get it's like a thousand points Yeah, yeah minimum everything Yeah, but uh, I'm beast bomb used to 10 50 for your minimum, you know I think actually just casting I was just taking twinstone is probably just better than the battalion period unless you really care about drops, but It's not just bad It's like you could take it and have fun and it'd be decent and it's got a game plan and it can do it so No, and I mean I would point out most road battalion. That's not like a A non-starter like you said, right, but it's not like clearly great I would also point out that like pretty easily with this battalion and any Any sort of combination of the items or traits we just talked about You could very easily have those demographs on basically ones and twos re-rolling ones So like for their entire profile Yeah, and and with the item on the on the on the uh general on griffin Like you're healing in a radius now that can heal those demographs that have are multi wound and Like there are lots of good options. Yeah. Yeah, and that's a good call tom I had forgot we we should discuss the battalion because that absolutely Yeah, what are the valkyries a Is a is a song you should play when playing that list It's good as long as the spell casts, you know, otherwise you're not flying but That gets fell. Yes. Uh, yeah, yeah harder for some cities than others Uh, well, they have it like also by the way their damage spell is really solid We kind of just mentioned they have a damage spell, but that's d6 to big units right and d3 otherwise Yeah, that's good.  I dig that Yeah, center cloud is an inside out hit penalty Spell what you really really like. Yes a lot of times I don't like hit spells Even though they're of course great It's because almost all of them are 18 inches and stuff charges you from outside of 18 inches all the time And when you're just like no, actually it's it's this guy that I don't want you to hit, please And then it's just whatever it's that guy gets hit like minus one I like yeah, yeah, it's a bubble neg one around with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's good Uh, okay Uh, cool. So yes, I don't think there's anything that leads I mean other than the battalion want you to play a bunch of demigryfs and you're right This is like a pretty expensive it I haven't really looked but I don't think there's any reason Hold on. Let me look again here Uh Where my where my demi's at Where are they at in this list? There they are Uh There is yeah, there's no reason you couldn't have your whole army be this battalion Like you can one drop with this if you wanted to I had to go I had to go look and make sure I was right I would really want a wizard to cast that one spell. Sure. It's good. Sure But you could definitely one drop and just be a million demigryfs and a griffin Sure the general on griffin all the demigryfs and one battle mage. There you go. Yep Yep, you could two drop and still basically out drop the entire field Sure. Sure. Almost certainly. Yeah. Yeah So that is it is not all of them really have that potential in any real way But yes, you can do this one Uh, all right, cool. Anything else we want to say about hammerhole? I mean I overall I think it's fun I don't think it's the most striking because it is the most middle of the road But I think you you know People will make some hammerhall armies and be happy with them. I think it's the answer and they will be Performing me to if you forced me to make a hammerhall army. I would not be upset. Right. It's fine. It's cool. Right I like bonuses like sure spells are good, man. It's not that I like stacking things. Yes Yes, not the one that trips my trigger, but we'll get to that and we got a few cities to go all right So next up we've got the living city a laurels A home a city entangled in trees and living crap Gross, can you imagine how moldy this city is by the way? This city smells.  Yeah Sure, if you live in the nice part of town, it smells like flowers and like like like walking across the irish countryside If you live in the lower If you live in the lower parts of town with like we're all the standing water gathers and there's just mosquitoes Everywhere just clouds of them and they're like what's not even mentioned the pollen district. Oh god Just a cloud Every kid has asthma. Yeah All right, anyway looking city. Yes the living city obviously must be from guy ran Uh, you can include sylvaneth. So as we mentioned before one in every four units Can be sylvaneth in addition to one in every four being storm cast in addition to allies or mercenaries Yeah, yada, okay Hunters of the hidden paths is sort of their main thing Instead of setting up a unit on the battlefield you can place it to one side and say that it's set up in the hidden paths You can set up one reserve unit for every put unit you put on the battlefield at the end of your movement phase You can set up one or more of these units on the battlefield Holy within six inches of the edge of the battlefield and more than nine inches from any enemy units Any reserve units in the hidden paths that aren't set up before the start of the fourth battle round are destroyed So pretty standard language for how we see this kind of stuff working now Um a tune to nature at the start of your hero phase You can heal one wound allocated to each friendly living city unit So most importantly that does sort of behoove multi wound things because it doesn't return models It only heals wounds Right, uh, so, you know, you'll heal your living city steam tank where you're living city demigrafy if he's wounded All over the yeah, exactly.  They just uh, they just probably Like solar power There's solar power Like coal was plants Yeah, there you go. Fair enough Uh, okay, and then their command ability strike then melt away. This is actually a bad name Yeah, because it's strike and then strike get closer.  Strike and then move side then move laterally to claim an objective or whatever you know, like, yeah Okay Here we go You can use this command ability at the end of your shooting phase end Of your shooting phase very very important timing Mm-hmm If you do so pick one friendly living city unit that shot in that phase So they had to have made a ranged attack That is more than nine inches from any enemy units and holy within 18 of a friendly living city hero That unit can make a normal move It cannot run and a unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per phase Oh boy, howdy What's that? Oh my god 18 is big It is that is a big big big range Especially if you've got a general with any kind of decent ish sized base, right? Which there are plenty of generals that could Uh, yeah, so obviously well we can we can incorporate uh hold on hold on Forget general. This is any of your heroes. Sure that you can trigger this. All right. I'm sorry.  Yep In fact, you can deep strike a lariel shoot her spear And then summon because they're both at the end of movement and you can order however you wish. Yep She's so good. She like I still don't think it's probably worth doing but um It's I think the best that a lariel can do in the game right now. Maybe is in living city As opposed to in sylvanas. Sure.  It doesn't matter if it hits just if you attack right Um, and then where'd she go? I just had her up here and then end of movement she moved and Or not end of movement you summon Yeah, so that's all right.   Her base is is full pipe plate. It's it's the big It is so technically it's uh her her base technically doesn't fit in the six inches Uh, because I believe it's a 160 millimeter round and 150 is your six inches Which I guess we're using war cry, right? So her base hangs off the edge of this $130 model with her Well, yeah, and so there's like one of the questions that's out right now for clarification is like Can your base hang off the back of the board? I hope not Yeah, I mean what happens when you just like the edge of the base at the edge of the table I don't know why that isn't the The solution to both the war cry question and this one right right because technically yes, you're right She is like six and one third inches. That's what the pipe plate base is right. Yeah Um, yeah So the question is can she even actually fit within their thing like it's an FAQ question that needs to be answered What happens if you try to get her out there? Uh, this has this comes up in a couple different interesting ways Um, because because it's entirely possible. They might answer that like no She's just too big and hence can't fit and can't be summoned Um, which okay, that's fine. Then all the people that happened to own it We're bringing it a little bit off the shelf Okay, yeah, they went to reach for it and they're like, oh, I guess I don't Still nope never mind never mind get out of here get out of here lady Uh, I mean that being said she is quite fast and so like the reality is Um, what what's her move? Isn't she like a 16 inch line? Yeah So like she can just run off the line Okay, like not literally run, but just like I don't necessarily need to summon her She could just move 16 forward shoot her spear, which has a pretty decent range and then go 16 again It's not like 32 inches didn't take her within three of an enemy. Hey, where are they set up jupiter? Don't ruin this for us. We want a deep striker then move her up I want to summon her in the back field. Don't ruin this Yeah, I mean, well, they'll have to answer the FAQ question Um, I would point out that if you can use her it would actually be funny to summon a Uh, tree lord if you actually had two command points because it has a 12 inch shooting attack and it can shoot as well And then it could move in Ag team champions of guy ran 2019. Exactly like the only time a tree lord's ever been at all interesting Yeah, so, you know just just a funny thing there But yes, obviously you could do this with dirthu, you know, he can certainly fit on there Like dirthu could walk in from the hidden paths. He has like a 15 inch shooting attack Uh, and then, you know, he could scoot up and be in there. So just like There are tons of good options for this, right? It's like On the list of units you can possibly use that have a ranged attack almost as an afterthought, right? And because you just need to have shot to use this It's probably not the greatest just because I mean he's gonna sweep a unit of 10 chaff off the table into the trash But it's probably gonna die to counter attack for the most part, right? But you can like load him up with a two plus save and plus on the wood and all this Um, but he's not going to be near a wildwood. He's only got three attacks I don't know. It's probably better in my head than than on the table. Well, no, that's not true You could still summon a wildwood Um, because you could put a tree lord agent in there Yeah, if you do, yeah, if you do other stuff, you could summon one Mm-hmm Yeah, dry dry just in the night's nice solution. Yeah, it's interesting. Uh, there's some storm calves.  Yeah Oh, yeah, I have a bow.  Yeah.  He came in from the hidden paths They're they're sneaky Obviously the honor roll engine here is also the steam tank, which is super stealthy I Was this thing driving through just like running over trees and branches Yeah But it was it it was hidden paths Yeah, there you go Regardless, uh, it'll be interesting to see if this faq or if this commandability survives the errata Um, because I could see them adding a line to this which says you may not move closer to to in any enemy model You can still scoot on to an objective, so I think it would still be good. It just obviously hurts its alpha plan Right. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like you'd have to be much more careful with that But yes, it would move the offensive capabilities, which it seems to be the intent So I say all this to say I would not surprise be surprised for us to see an errata to this Well, gee, I hope not I like this interaction Why I guess I do I do as well. This actually ties me for number two city Like of my favorite cities like living city because of this ability because of the deep strike all about those interactions This is my this this ties For me with tempest I for my number two favorite Yeah, I was looking through some other units.  They can live reasonably well. They all have a decent amount of wounds. They're on three ups They have the bonus against shooting. They're healing one wound because of the thing You could deep strike them. I guess it wouldn't work as well But let's say you could deep strike them with like a castellan as well And as soon as that castellan comes on his grip hounds comes on as well Um, yeah, when he he sets up he'd set one up with him And so it'd be a really interesting like flank because you could also make them super hard as well Yeah, because you'd give him a two up after the castellan could do his thing I was almost thinking I tell her on foot But you gotta be within three inches of enemies for his command ability to go off and ain't no way you do that Well It's a shooting attack. I don't think sure. There's a couple, you know, obviously I mentioned already that you could you could you know tap this a couple times Right. So like every command point you've got like, you know, you start with one on your turn Maybe you bought one for 50. I don't necessarily think you've got the battalion, but I don't know maybe, you know, the point is Is it like Oh, yeah, you can like you could be bringing like three different units In there, I would also point out that like just to kind of branch this out Yeah, see All right, so into the into the rest of the items and stuff that they have Um, it should be noted that like Their command traits gives you a run in charge Uh ability built in which is always nice so you can make your your general run in charge Um, or you can take like the incredible iron oak artisan, which is plus one to saves and plus one to wound Right, which is just like bonkers good Uh, but in within their magic items You have stuff like like you mentioned the templar tom Right like the drakes warren templar Um, you can give that guy like because those storm cast are just units in your army They can take magic items and everything so like you could give him the spear of the hunt Where he suddenly uh increases the rend of one of his weapons by one and now fights at the start of the combat phase Yeah, and so yeah, exactly if you charge he becomes like a gristle gore general, right? Um, so like that's why Yeah, or directly exactly. Yep. So like there's there's just some I'm I'm fascinated by the idea of like just having a couple command points and yeah, like Just the threat of that like having that souped templar and like a soup. I I imagine like um I imagine like a spirit of derthu or something as the general With iron oak and like a drakes warren templar with the spear of the hunt And they're both off board and just like what your opponent is now thinking about like the just raw power You can bring into his line like if you don't set up perfectly I'm going to have three inch charges with these two models and they're gonna do Hurt Right, they're gonna do terrible things to your models. They're both gonna fight before you fight Yeah, right. Yeah, because this start the templar is going to fight at the start And then we'll go to normal and I'll choose and it'll be my guy Or it doesn't have to be about the big heroes either Sure You'd have some little wander hero on either side or Something and then have like a bunch of iron drakes or you know, whoever Come in from ambush pincer and then just like alpha shoot From the board edge except with good shooting instead of like reavers or something Oh, sure. Uh, if you've Beased heard, you know with like 60 on graders on either side and just like fire Let's say as well as a different option Yeah, let's say for example along that line Hey, well, let's just let's just let's just throw out a crazy thought. Okay. Sure Like here's a here's a fun thing you could do Like this just seems fun So a lumen arc of heish, you know Yeah, we're drawing the lines. I think I'm understand It's time to it's time to play 8th edition warhammer fantasy battles. You're lying here. Yeah, you got it All right, so the lumen arc now the way it works I'm trying to actually flip to it But this book is organized in a way that that makes my head hurt sometimes Uh, the lumen arc the way its gun works now is it just shoots a big giant line line And uh, you know assuming you can get enough units into your army, which let's just assume for the moment I can so I can get three I can get three lumen arcs in this list. Okay, which are not that expensive. I don't need the battle mage on top Like 200 points. Yeah, they're there. Yeah, exactly Uh, so what I'm gonna do with this line that the searing beam of light is a 30 inch range It draws a 30 inch lines, right? And you don't use an attack sequence instead you pick up one point on the battlefield within range 30 inches away It is visible to this model and draw an imaginary straight line one millimeter wide between that point and the closest part of this model's base Roll a die for each unit that has models passed across by this line For each roll that is equal to or greater than the searing beam of light value shown on this model's damage table Which by the way is two plus to start and they're going to be because they just rolled on the battlefields.  Like this is called the akira strategy. Okay, just like Income the laser beams So there you go. You should cross his dreams. I guess indeed Uh, yeah, there you go. That was just a funny one for me. Okay. The point is living city has lots of potential That's I think And we haven't even gotten Oh, were you just sorry? No, go ahead.  Yeah, cage. I'm sick Okay, it's a seven but 18 inch caster visible have the movement characteristic Of target unit So we're already good. I like it. I would take the spell but yet But wait, there's more in addition until the start of your next hero phase the first time the unit moves suffers d6 mortal wounds And pylons are moves and not everybody knows that so you want to be really angle shooting You can cast it on somebody already in combat and get them, but that's not how we play uh Yeah, this is this is amazing having movement characteristic is a spell that I would generally take if I have access to it like all the time already and then also it's going to pendulum you Great or you just don't move which is actually worse than a d6 mortal wounds because moving so important in this game Love it I like all their spells. I think I think their spell lore is pretty great top to bottom They have like the biggest heal because they actually have a d6 wound heal, which is bonkers, right? Yeah, um They have exactly like that is so because that hits them on a move On a charge or on a pylon if they do any of those three things that does the d6 mortal wounds, right? Because it's a move Uh, and then they have the iron oak skin, which I actually really love because it's a buff on your unit That gives units attacking it neg one to wound that is a debuff. Yep It's a like when you have an anvil that just needs to live on a point It's going to get smashed by multiple units So like just debuffing one enemy unit with neg one to wound is not as effective as just saying all comers Neg one to wound So like yeah, yeah, and can we acknowledge that like having a d6 heal sitting on a unit is pretty good Yeah, the cast Yeah, that like It's like they wanted this to like to feel like silvaneth Yeah, yeah to feel living Like yeah, so it's like it becomes your hero phase you heal one And then I'll take an extra d6, please I like it Yeah, because they said They didn't want to stop people from having a tree lore agent and not being able for it to self heal all the way up every turn Right Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely Like I know we said a lariel it's hard to get her healed back up because her healing isn't quite up to par anymore. Well Here you go. Look, she's got three spells.   Yeah and and like Yeah, or like you could do it with other things too. Uh, here's uh, here's a hint Like I could see a combo You know how you talked about vint about having threat and being able to like pop things off, you know from off-table on the board and then charge Um, like you were talking about the example of the like the templar with a bow and all that um as neat as that is, uh For your second storm cast in your army because what I'll say is this having built a bunch of lists in these armies The one in four means on average you're going to get two units of one of the specialty things Yeah, yeah Like you're gonna get two units one of those is going to be your templar, right? We talked about that um for your storm cast the other one you could grab feasibly is a uh Um, is it the herald or no the vexler? Um, so that at any point in time you can just pick them up and redeploy them anywhere on the board.  Yeah We have a rules question from the chat, uh Uh Deadly terrain says if a unit finishes its move within one inch roll a die does pylon count It does not and i'm gonna tie this into cities of sigmar, which is why this is relevant Deadly says finishes a normal move And normal moves are defined as happening during the movement phase and pylon doesn't pylon is a move Counts is a move, but it's not a normal move and the way this is relevant to city sigmar is there's a lot of Abilities in this book generally on free guild guys that give you some bonus if you haven't moved All right eternal guard have them a lot of the command abilities Uh, most of the shooters of free guild tend to like be good if they're if they haven't moved So like specifically with eternal guard if you pile them in you don't get that bonus because that's a move It doesn't say the normal move, right? Right and uh, that's probably going to be asked a lot as people play The book originally or early on I should say Yep, and so that's the it's the distinctions setups aren't moves. That's another thing A setup is not a move So all 30 of your iron drakes can just blaze away literally blaze away because it's the name of the rule After they ambush in with living city. Yes. Yep Or get bridged or that's good.  So living city. Let's just mention, uh, by the way that, uh, the battalion's pretty worthless. It is. Yes Yeah, uh brilliant pathfinders like so the nomad prince is fantastic. I love them to death Uh, but the wildwood rangers are just like they're they're okay, but three units of them I hate it's locked like that Um, I mean what I'll say is this, um I think the battalions in general in this book were a real missed opportunity Like it's dramatic part of the book It's the because Because they could have went to one of two other ways and I'll talk. I was going to be critical about this later I'll do this now. They could have went one of two other ways. They could have either said Three units from this list of units For viridian pathfinders so they could have said like wildwood rangers sisters of the Whatever and yeah, yeah, and just given like three of any selection to let you like choose a suite of units But they didn't they locked you into a set number of units The other thing they could have done is to open up all the battalions like they could have kept it this hyper locked Opened up all the battalions to all the cities But then added benefits to some battalions with some cities. So instead of using like a rigid, uh A rigid rigid structure they can create an incentive structure To encourage people to play certain battalions with certain armies. Sure Yeah, I mean I would have rather had I would have rather the battalions been built around more like almost a force work Within the mixed arms group like what they were functionally doing And so then you you with kind of a suite of different units available So like let me make this very real, uh, it could be like the the center line Right or something like yeah, and so it would be like one, you know two to three units of Uh free guild guard or wildwood rangers or blah or blah or blah or you know what I mean like all the just Be all the bad one, you know exactly all like the battle line infantry or whatever And they go to head like the flanking assault, right? And it could have been one unit of outriders or pistoliers or wild riders or you know dark riders And so on and so forth you get what i'm saying here Yeah, I do point is those would have been those would have really nicely seated into all of the cities And so you would have actually had this cool crisscross Of how they played differently in your force or in in your final army Yep Yep, I agree with that completely they So tom you and I have talked a lot in the past about the concept in game design of 45 degree development Right how linear versus horizontal are you so like horizontal design says Uh pick anything you want from a from amongst a bunch of stuff find the best and breed and put it all together So things that are very open. This is an old magic the gathering thing by the way. So right like horizontal design is like Uh What's it? What's an easy horizontal design choice? I'm trying to think of a deck that's just that's a good horizontal design Like the classic the deck from the nineties where you were just like picking literally your power by dual ends And you just had like all the best cards in the game your power nine and everything else That's that is as horizontal as it gets that is the zero degree line, right? Whereas linear design is where every by choosing a the second you say i'm going to select a b You're strong incentivized to pick b once you pick a and b C is almost a lock and then from there you're just literally filling everything. It's a linear build Once you start with a goblin lackey, right?  Yeah, I think the third edition feet structures towards whirlwind attack Sure, or like any tribal build in magic. Well that one you don't want to take the first step I think because the I agree three feet suck. That's like nobility Over the horizon and you're like I want that so I have to climb this awful ladder to get there Right, and obviously the better thing was to take the improved trip cyclone trip. Whatever nonsense crap Anyways, that was the better move Whatever that was I don't all I know is you could build people with super long arms and spike chains and trip everybody in like a 50 mile radius They tried to explain what it looks like couldn't picture it right at any rate Uh So, uh, yeah, they went too linear, right? They were too much building on just the city as the central concept Right, so yeah, it's just it's disappointing. But anyways, so we're stuck with a battalion that you'll probably never see on the table Right. Yep All right, uh, cool We're ready to move on to the next one I some people are asking what we think about units We'll hit units as we move through here because some the units will sort of naturally evolve and at the end By the way, we'll do a wrap up of just like hey Is there any unit you like that we haven't mentioned yet or something like that? We'll do a couple units All right next city gray water fastness Oh, baby Now we're now we're getting to the places I like Forget all that nature crap industry Bring in the power of industry I want air choked with just the the black clouds of forges. That's what i'm looking for All right So, uh, gray water fastest armies are from gairan, which I hate I hate that this city is built in gairan Like I get it. I get that that's part of the story But I hate that for reasons i'm going to discuss in a moment Or if ever there was a city that Aesthetically if you didn't know anything about anything you'd be like, oh towering smokestacks You know Forges glowing with the heat of magma right and you have two realms it could be in the realm of fire or the realm of life You guessed it. It's life You got it. Yeah, exactly Anyway, oh by the way, so what we're really talking about here By the by in in true ironic fashion is a city of smoke and fire and magma and forges built in the realm of life By a human engineer From chamon inspired by zinch Oh, he was the one inspired by zinch of the secret plans. Yeah, yeah, exactly So I just I this this city has a it has a lot of stuff going on Uh, yes chamon. Sorry. Okay. Uh, anyway rune lore in your hero phase one friendly graywater fastest rune lord Can use a new prayer If they do so make a roll on a one It's not answered on a two plus because rune lords are the best prayers in the game Now like the only ones you are all just two plus. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to point it out if you didn't They're the prayer. They're the most pious priests in the entire world all the realms. Indeed. There are Yep, whenever I would explain that to my opponents and be like, okay, this is on a two up It only fails on a one. They look at me like I had four heads Like are you sure? I'm like, no, I am and you can go check it if you really don't don't believe me. Yes Uh, so they can do the rune of unfaltering aim, which is actually nice because the rune lords basic Uh prayers only work on dispossessed and I have a feeling this is like the patch To make its own rune lords now work with all the iron-swelled arsenal guns. Yeah, this is This is how they didn't want them to just be engineer keyword. Right. So like what do we do? Right They can pray to the To the machine gods of aos. Exactly So if this prayer was answered pick one friendly iron-swelled arsenal war machine Uh, which basically, you know is going to boil down often to your hellstorm rocket batteries or your hell blaster volley guns Uh Within three inches model until the start of your next hero phase add one to hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons By that unit. Um, I should state it can also be steam tanks. Um Okay, this hell star blisters They're not iron-swelled arsenals They're not it's not gray water fastness It's it's that original keyword Yeah, yep I think those are three models Yeah Uh, and then home of the great iron weld guilds increase the range characteristic of missile weapons used by friendly gray water fastness iron-swelled arsenal units by three inches That would work on your The thing you just mentioned the ballasty No, it's still Well, there's no No, great. Oh, no, you're right. No, wouldn't yeah gray water fastness iron-swelled arsenal no one's no Yep, still just Uh, yep, still just iron well arsenal. Sorry. Thank you very much This is not the weapons minimum range if it has one in addition if you are fighting in a pitch battle You can include one additional iron-swelled arsenal artillery unit, which my god How much do we need to guild the lily on that one like four hellstorm rocket batteries wasn't enough? No, I've got to have five Uh, and then finally command ability salvo fire Uh, you can use this command ability in your shooting phase if you do so pick one friendly gray water fat fastness free guild handgunners unit Or gray water fastness iron drakes unit Holy within 12 of an of a friendly gray water fastness hero I had one to hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons by that unit until the end of the phase And it's handgunners because even they know no one's gonna use crossbows anymore So, uh, obviously this is one of the shooty cities Yes, it wants you to make the boom booms and What I Love about This pretty I hate I hate that salvo fire only works on those two units. I wish you just had like I wish it was more open, right? Like I understand they only wanted like They're trying to get at things that are black powder weapons But there's a lot more black powder weapons that would make sense to uh Steam tanks Yeah, sure sure sure Seems like a good option. Yes We're talking batteries Sure, but I mean, I know you're already adding one. Okay. Look if I want to freaking guild the lily on this get off me You know that let me do it fine. You got to get it to a two somehow, right? Right exactly um So and yes, you can you can pray for the steam tanks I think that was a question you cannot salvo fire the steam tanks because they're not handgunners or the other thing um It does increase the range characteristic of the steam tanks guns by three inches Which is cool for their machine gun, which is a pretty good weapon, but only an eight inch range This does push it out to 11, which is better all right, uh Yeah, I mean this one wants to run a bunch of shooting stuff. I mean that's what it boils down to I will say I like Gray water enough, but here's the problem. It's if you want to run a shooting army It's actually the not as good city to run a shooting army from yes Yeah, and that's sad There are things I quite like about this just to call it a few things I do quite like about gray water though This is this is one of my cities. So I'm happy to take this one uh The drill master command trait Uh, you can re-roll hit rolls of one for a tax made with missile weapons by friendly gray water fastness units Holy within 12 Pretty good as we just mentioned there are several hit bonuses around this calls This closes the other end of that loop off Right, so like you can get a lot of units just basically on twos re-rolling ones Like that is a real potential in this thing all your rocket batteries Right, you could push them to like basically threes re-rolling ones around this dude without too much work Just you know that kind of thing um So yeah, there's that Uh, I like the steam piston plate males fun. It's plus one to save and plus one to move I love it because of the modeling opportunities of putting a guy in power armor. You know, it's just like that's kind of cool um And then the master of aviddy's magnificent Macroscope at the start of the first battle around you get an extra command point and you get plus one to hit rolls for Uh for a tax made with uh missile weapons by the bear Cool thing and their spells are all okay they have uh They have a decent ish horde attacker spell decent ish Right, uh, it's five up. Yeah, it's a five up. Yep, which is not bad. It's you know, it's fine Um, they have a good neg one to hit from an ash cloud, of course as you would expect and they have um You're reading it You've already read the living city one and then you read this one and you can help feel like there's my d6 damage out of nowhere Right, right exactly Uh, I do like and they also have a fun one that attacks a terrain feature, which I think is pretty fun They can basically like a shell a terrain feature to with a spell to like do damage to everybody in it And and also cause the terrain to be deadly, which is kind of fun. So It's cool Uh, and the the deadly is just You know until you're next to your face. So it lasts quite a while. That's cool They're cool I think what they suffer from is being the second best shooting thing because too much of their special abilities are way Way way too limited in who they apply to right Uh, I should also state that the thing we all want to do which is make steam tanks battle line Uh, yes the club battalion. Yeah, isn't even contingent on being in this city Right, it's just general. It's just your general. So like All incentive to run this city Is is gone because just like Yep, nope Don't need it Uh, I can't take any of my ko stuff in here or you know, ko stuff I would want and by the way, you might think ko were bad Uh, yo dog ko is going to get a new book in a few months And if you don't think that's going to be a scary book now that shooting's okay again Yeah, like it's by stock now in tempest I because that ko that ko value is going to be horizon, son In tempest I was And this is okay for ko but ask me again in two months or whenever And I'll give you a very different answer. I think yeah, yeah, I mean the thunders They're going to be good folks. Yeah That's what I'm saying cool not to be good And also we'll finally get the battle line gun hauler probably because we're just handing out battle line to all sorts of weird things now There is no universe where gun haulers don't become battle line in that book. It's just impossible Okay No, it's true. It's true. And like I think we could get our our our our ship captains as well You know how I talked about having like Like with the steam tank captains Like I think that was the that was the step that was the permission Yeah, now we could have like the frigate hero or whatever. Yeah Yeah, I'm so happy with the steam captain. I love that Now he can finally be the meme except in age of sigmar. Absolutely Wonderful, I would point out that ironically this city, which I consider to be like, okay at best But still in the fat middle it's still good.  Yay. We're all happy Crew can't be picked off anymore. Hell storms are good again. Let us all celebrate the age of shooting missiles at people Uh, they do have like pretty much the exact battalion you would want It's like one cogsmith and two to four either hellstorm rocket batteries or hellblaster volley guns Yep, perfect And it has an awesome ability in your shooting phase in the first battle round friendly war machines from this battalion Can shoot twice if they are within six inches of a friendly hero. Yep. Great. Good That's exactly what you wanted to do. Yep.  So like if you're really if you want to be that guy this city does allow you to take like five Hellstorm rocket batteries Rune lords to bonus them and stand around a cogsmith in the middle. So you're re-rolling ones I think that just lets you re-roll ones automatically if the cogsmith is near in the middle of them and just fire off 10 rounds of hellstorm power basically like hitting on threes re-rolling ones Doing at neg, uh, is it neg one or neg two rend d3 damage like it's It is in either pistol leaders or tanks for battling. Yeah, I mean it is an artillery Barrage yeah neg two rend d3 damage like that is If anybody played the old what I think it was one of the command and conquer games Yeah, that's what it was where like I think it was one where you could play like america or china or like terrorists basically and And the usa could like set strategies and one of the strategies was just bombardment That was how it said it when you turned it on and all your like shooting weapons became amazing So yes, that's what I hear in my head every time I click to gray water fastness is just bombardment, you know I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole on this one Which was probably truly a waste of time, but I'll welcome everyone into it about Man if you were taking the battalion and you got all the relevant bonuses from your various stuff and got the prayer Do you want rocket battery or do you want? chain gun And then like kind of compared each to each and it was actually very difficult Because of how the chain gun thing works. Yeah Right the long and short of it is you're talking like 20 damage after saves versus a four up with the rockets and A giant question mark of probabilities for the chain gun because on a double it can jam And you can re-roll any of the three dice Because you have an engineer So it may or may not jam after that and if it jams on your first shot Then it can't shoot for the rest of the turn so it won't get to shoot the second time But long story short if you're a gambler and your gun doesn't jam You're going to shoot like 84 times And do like 31 damage if you're within 12 inches and like 25 ish damage If you're not and that 25 damage you're probably rolling dice and picking stuff out and re-rolling stuff for a good like Three real solid minutes of real time or more If you're if you like bone splitters consider this one I like a million dice and then like A way smaller amount of things happen, right? Uh, yeah, I'm all about I I agree by the way AOS coach had said in there Cogsmith plus lord plus the lordinator plus rocket batteries equals making no friends And yeah, I mean that's the answer You've just got like five rocket batteries a cog smith the ruin lord and uh, uh And a and a lordinator all there in a pile Right and like one of your rocket batteries is hitting on twos shooting twice the other ones are hitting on three Shootin twice they're all re-rolling ones and you just put like it is just unleashing hellfire into them Just like well if you had any big monsters No, you don't like anything that I can see and like low to definitely dead What are them who like do living city where they're like nah, I'm cool Yeah, like I'll stay I'll stay off board right all your fast chaff units are dead top of one All your big monsters are dead top of one like that's That's that's the end of that like selenit keeper of secrets the gray water fastest does not fear a keeper of secrets That lady is gone. She ceases existing Top of the turn like my place for up save and What is there's worse than that? Is it a five? Keepers are just a standard four up and no after save yet. So I mean like they're on six You'll kill two two keepers very easily. Oh, yeah, and possibly three If you get lucky, yeah, bye-bye Yeah, but but then like 10 day minutes get into there.  It's fine. That's not why you're playing you're playing for that first part not that second part Yeah, that's what you like Absolutely. All right Okay, anything else you want to say about gray water Pass good. All right, tom your turn finisium Let's talk about these dumb birds Uh, I'll I'll I'll go through the abilities Pack pack. You don't need to. All right.  Sure Yeah, exactly. All right, we'll get into it because I agree with both of those points. Here we go A finisium city is from guy ran cool Vengeful revenants add one to hit and wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly finisium units If any any friendly finisium units have been destroyed in the same phase Well, that won't happen move on I disagree you just you're just thinking about it wrong. But anyway, we'll we'll keep going Yeah, okay Add one to the wounds characteristic of your all your phoenixes. So that's cool. Your phoenix is having additional wound. Great Those guys were just they were so easy to kill. They really needed the extra wound And then your command ability living idols you can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase If you so pick one friendly finisium hero flames fire phoenix or finisium hero frost art phoenix until the end of that phase If a friendly finisium model is slain while it is within 12 inches of that hero that model can fight before it's removed from play Effectively, it gives everybody around the phoenix's death frenzy great okay, so The what what you're obviously the phoenixes themselves are unbelieve the phoenixes in the phoenix guard are unbelievably tough, right? Because you've got a decent save now. We should mention that they did remove the stacking save nonsense, right? From either of them, right? They're base fours and they'll gain plus one So they'll go to the base functionally threes the problem here though Let me point this out and they will have the witness if the anointed is on top Meaning they'll still be up the salva four up after save. So there'll be a three up four up Yep, right and they in like they were base five previously so technically like You're not losing as much as you think you are correct Yeah, it was kind of tricky to keep castors around them after that initial rush often Uh, I do like the change though because it means we won't be seeing frost phoenixes in halloward with a negative 18 save Sure, which might be uh, which might have been even worse. Sure Uh We have a combo here unless you want to continue talking about so well, I just had one quick thing I want to state sure that the And then obviously the the phoenix's abilities themselves if they have the anointed on top give a real wound bubble around themselves Right, right and obviously your phoenix guard your main elf dudes have the witness to destiny ability as well Meaning that you know, they're all going to be four up four up now Tom's point and and I should state that like all of these guys Uh are on like Threes and threes or I guess like I guess the flaming challenge from the frost phoenix around fours and threes But still the point being is that like All these guys if they if that if that ability triggers the plus one to hit plus one to wound thing It's putting any of this army on like twos if you're if you're talking about the actual phoenix units, right now I agree those dudes don't tend to die however We don't have to use phoenix stuff only in this But I don't have to activate against the traction units first So i'm gonna activate against your aether your your aether wings as the last unit So that plus one to hit and damage you never get or plus one to hit when you never get to see I understand what you're saying Joe go ahead without your combo Oh, it's not good, but boy is it funny. Okay Probably other people have thought about this because I read the book late, but uh Oh, I should say seekers of vengeance. It's a pretty cool command trade because it adds one to attack characteristics You're up and if something died and three if Five models have been slain on the same turn. Yep. So this buffs your phoenix even so it's like what are our command abilities? Uh hit and wound for everything if something died Uh pilot an attack if something died extra attacks if something died But then all your guys are like super hard to kill. Well, not really because anything can have the phoenixium keyword What about guys who secretly want to die?   I think oh, yeah, is it good? Absolutely not but it is quite hilarious and I think it would make for a funny theme I agree now. Let me talk about how you use this rule. I think I think here's my trick. You ready? The lord arcanum on foot Okay, yep What we need Is somebody who's gonna die in the combat phase that I get to make sure dies first Yes, the lord arcanum on foot. I will read you the following rule Oh suicide Priest that's right. All right. So lord arcanum on foot spirit flasks once per battle at the start of the combat phase You can say that this model will shatter one two or three spirit flasks If you do so each unit within three inch this model suffers one mortal wound for each spirit flask that was shattered Units within three inches of ten or more models suffer d three mortal wounds for each spirit flask that was shattered instead uh allocate the mortal wounds to this model last of all after allocating them to any other units that are affected So Our you do a lord arcanum and you do a um You do a lord arcanum and you do a knight in cantor. They both pop their flasks Because the cantor gets it and then the arcanum keeps the incantor a little Oh Like prevents the last wound there you go. Yeah, so they don't have to join each other in death No, no, no, you only pop five you pop five flasks. So the incantor dies and both of them say well, there you go. Okay, sure Yep, yeah, uh, and then they heal up full or no, that's is that in the hero or the that's in the Dice of the unit death trigger, but you don't want two of them to die because it's for any no And you want enough of dudes for at least a five Oh, yeah, I guess if he dies and then the last wound is prevented. He's technically considered not dying. Yeah, that's fair Then you let the you let the knight herald or die And then if you get the double turn the knight lord arcanum will heal back up to full if he's near the phoenixes in the battalion right So or or you could just not make make him not near that because he still got what the one dude still has one flask left Okay, and so he just drops his last flask and then you get it two turns in a row Like he's just like no boom I will kill myself and he takes his last wound off and boom two turns of army wide plus one to hit and wound There it is so Yeah death rocks in a can and then you're and then you're two units of 40 flagellants and frost phoenixes or fire phoenixes Do you like a hundred damage a turn? Not bad Yep uh And by the way, uh You don't have to somebody asked like wouldn't both arcanums keep both themselves alive because you can put people They have that ability to prevent the last wound No, you don't have to do that. You just can do that. I believe it says can which is a may Is it that is exactly what it says? Yep. That's correct. It says can which is a may. You're not forced to That's right So, uh, yeah The museum is definitely the city that at first glance looked like the most boring even more boring than hammer hall and then I started to try to like Come up with ridiculous rules interactions that wouldn't make a good army at all and it became a lot more fun Yeah, this is this is the johnny city for sure. Uh, by the way, richard rossman who asked wouldn't what about a sorceress and a one man under Like an under unit of bleak swords Yeah, no because it's only in here Correct. That's what I was going to say. It has to happen in phase. I was going to answer the question Yes, you didn't let me get there tom Yes, it only the the bonus is only for the phase where it happens Hence you have to die in the combat phase and like the reason the Arcanum or the or whatever the other dude is who also has a spear flasks the two of them standing next to each other The reason that dual death is so good is because it's at the start of the phase So it happens before, you know anything except go firsters strike firsters Enemies turn and they don't actually need enemies around to do it It's just like they can just commit suicide if they want Which is why I love this combo like that when I saw that combo I was like, oh, I'm in for this city now They're all high on phoenix flames and they're like, yes, take me Uh, I'm gonna go back to my statement. Uh, I'll just pass like there's like anything I want to do with phoenix temple I will do better in other Other cities, I mean fair enough. I will say I do like a lot of what? Just of a lot of the little things going on in here as well Um, for example, they've got an artifact that's like a pseudo ironclad where it reduces rend of one to nothing Which I think is very strong They have a they have an artifact that's both fly and run in charge Which is good. Um You know, it's stuff that I like Um, they have another half move characteristic spell doesn't have the d6 mortal wound kicker But it is still a half move characteristic spell. So there you go Yeah I'll go ahead I should say the reducing like rend by one Or you can just take an artifact that increases armor save by one which has the same mechanical effect And like you get that in hammer hall or the like run in charge you can get that in other cities Yeah, I understand. Also the plus one armor one is just legit better because amber armor is reduced the Rend characters if I want is if it's one reduce it to dash to dash. Yeah, it's not if it's two You just take the two so the armor one is just better. Absolutely I understand why they didn't put the plus one in here though given that it is the phoenix city, but still um In any event I like I do think the ability of this army to go Like that seeker of vengeance thing like if a unit of five or more dies gaining plus three attacks That shouldn't be underestimated. That's a that could like on the right model That's a hell of a lot of extra attacks. It could it could be triggering quite often Because like with the right units in this mix things with five models will just die in the combat phase like or you know, that'll just happen right It makes little msu chop them up units for 10, you know for 100 points. Yeah seem okay. Absolutely. Yeah, but what are you putting that on? Any Command point, right? So maybe like you isn't who who do you want carrying that? Who do I want carrying this thing carrying the command point or the uh, or the other no that command trait the seeker of Engines who carries that? The star because if you put it on Okay, so You lose you lose phoenix guard. You lose phoenix guard because you're in a longer battle line Right You have to have an anointed and that anointed has to be the one that has seeker of engines with his with his shitty one name attacks Oh, that's right because the only way you get the phoenix guard is battle line is if you have him as a general I don't yeah, I don't care. Yeah, there's plenty of decent battle line I can choose like this city is not or this this book is not hurt for battle line. Who cares?   I mean I get it.  I don't think that's actually bad I think you're construing it too narrowly. I really do I think you have to choose one Avenue it's like either I really want myself to die or I really want my stuff to live And if you really want your stuff to live you get like Random minor bonuses sometimes and if you really want your stuff to die Then all your stuff dies and it's kind of silly and maybe not the right way to go But yeah, I'm yeah, you know unless you're doing really interesting you know Comboy stuff with finisium that ends up being more interesting than it is good I You know, it's it's clearly not like the greatest city. I don't think yeah I mean what I'd say is this like when I look at finisia, like I'm like, okay. I want units that don't die I like looking at the numbers. I I think I'd rather go living city most of the time Like everything's healing. I have a healing spell. I can make one of my generals a wizard Like I can ambush now with phoenixes. Like, you know, like you can do a bunch of interesting things You can actually like deep strike with blocks of fiends card, which becomes really flip and scary Because they're normally low movement high defense and suddenly you can threaten points with with these guys like I don't know. I just I I look at finisium and I'm just uncompelled by by what they have fine enough I think finisium is actually makes is that is a good foundation for a counter to a lot of stuff That's in the meta right now. That's quite powerful That 50 50 army I talked about is actually and especially their command ability is a really powerful counter to stuff like slanesh And to stuff like scaven with death frenzy. Yeah, go ahead.  I'm not putting a keeper of secrets into a bunch of phoenix guard She's gonna lose that fight Okay, like they're an excellent counter to her and by the way the concept that there's even like a The concept that there's a phoenix then sitting behind them Activating that command ability makes it even worse because now she's definitely dead Like yeah, I hear that I just see all this and I was like I would rather have always strikes first in living city on a phoenix or something like Yeah, I mean that's not going to win you anything against the stuff I just talked about Enjoy your always strikes first death frenzy still wipes you that unit right off the table if you go into it hard Right and keepers still push you back to normal things and then splat you off the table If that's if that's what they were going to do anyways Right right Like you didn't counter anything in the strong meta right now with that move What I'm suggesting is phoenixium is actually a strong counter current meta play regardless of its perhaps objective strength against everything Yeah, I don't know I I would have to see some builds to see it work But I just I think that there are other better stronger counters in the cities than phoenixium Fair enough. Well, that's probably That's probably true just because the dirt or the not dirt. I'm sorry the the massive shooting Yeah, right like sure But like not everybody wants to run shooting armies some people like actually having choppy choppy people Just saying all right So now it's time It's time we got there we got to our first outlier Is it the good outlier or the bad outlier? Oh, it's the bad one. All right anvil guard So Okay anvil guard. Here we go. It's from oxy Illicit dealings. We all saw it. It was like the first one they revealed. So you get to choose one of these things You either get an additional artifact You get an addition it is uh, you get an additional, uh Drake blood curse Or you get d3 extra command points I will just point out now that there is a command trait called black friend black fang crime lord That is a lot of weird consonants to say together Where you get two benefits of this but they must be different So like you could have the extra artifact and the d3 command points because shut up. That's what you're taking If you're not taking the extra drake blood. All right Uh drake blood curses themselves go on dragons, criptuses and war hydras Uh, you get one automatically you get an additional one if you picked that thing I just mentioned and you get an additional one From the from every battalion you take And you can't choose the same one twice. Absolutely Something you see both in this book and oryx Luckily that doesn't matter because none of them are good. Uh, disagree It ruined one of my strats that I couldn't take the same one twice. I was so excited I actually had a strat for the city and they ruined it because I was going to go suicide hydra Okay, yeah Just yeah, just tons of them out there with acidic blood Just throwing them forward to die as my just bully chaff units that would explode on the people that killed them But no, I can't do that and it would have been my battle line pay too, right? Actually pretty cheap battle line at 170 a piece or whatever Battle line water balloons filled with acid. Correct. That's what my plan was. Yeah, but unfortunately you can't do that Uh, he was gonna do 17 of them I'm sorry. He's gonna do sorry 10 of them and then a dragon, uh dreadlord. Yeah I don't see any problem with this. Where's the issue? All right, and then command ability Uh, you can use this command ability at the start of the battle shock phase If you do so pick one friendly and will guard unit holy within 12 inches of a friendly and will guard hero One model in that unit is slain and then you don't take other then you don't take battle shock tests For friendly and will guard units holy within 18 of that unit. So it is an interesting leap ability It's basically a modification of the old, uh, darkling covens ability This command ability makes me furious I hate it. Okay. I don't just think it's not good. Although I do think it's not good I actively hate it. Okay. Why so? This is a command ability that doesn't know that there are default command abilities And that they do basically the same thing. Well, it is a bubble of battle for your city Like it does affect multiple units make all your guys mean the battle shock If they're on one side of the table for free just all the time, right?  It's usually killed about right for the most part Yep, like how many of your guys are in combat at the same time and all about to run away So that this is worth it As a command trait, I wouldn't take it Yet it's the command ability for the whole city. It's so I understand I don't disagree And if the city of any like interesting flavor it could have had because usually the command abilities are the main driving forces For what makes the play style of each of the cities interesting in some way and this one is The default one basically Except slightly better Even though something has to die the thing it has needed a downside. I guess. I don't know like Yeah, I'm I'm really disappointed in that and then everything else Just kind of It doesn't lift my spirits. I like an additional artifact because the artifacts are good. I like Hidden like an extra d3 command points. That's cool The drake blood curses are what aren't very good They have one they h