OK, good morning, everyone. So thanks for joining my session today. So I'm Kevin Zhao from Leonardo. And this presentation was being previously called Speaker by me and Xinliang. But due to some reason, he cannot be here. So I will take this presentation today. So I want to elaborate some HPC storage status on the ARM 64 environment, so especially on the ARM 64 servers. And first, yes, I want to do a simple introduction about Leonardo. So Leonardo is an open source organization who works with the business and open source community to develop the software on the ARM-based technology. So from us, we are a collaboration organizations by with ARM and its another some semiconductor vendors. Generally, the ARM and its customers. Because unlike the X86, the CPU was being manufactured by Intel or AMD themselves. So for ARM, ARM offered the IP model, and the different CPU vendors will offer CPUs. So there will be a very potential opportunity for the collaborations between the ARM and other ARM 64 CPU and semiconductor companies. We have some low-level software collaborations. So that we have founded this. We have actually, ARM and its partners has founded this company from 2010. And now we are actually in the last Linux upstream. The 6.2, we are the top one Linux contributions. So today, so my talk is generally very simple. And I want to give some brief update on our work on the HPC file system support on the ARM server side. So I will briefly introduce why we do this and what we have planned and also give some update for the other three projects for the Luster, Dels, and BGFS. So we can see that in the HPC world, there are generally two famous ranking lists. So the top 500 and the IO 500. So for top 500, we can see that it is really to see the ARM servers. Even though that the Fujitsu Fukaku has been ranking in the top one for maybe one or two years, but we can really to see more. And in the IO 500, the problem is even worse. So we can see that in the top 100, there is no ARM environment. So that's why. The problem we observe that is one big problem is the backend file system, the backend storage support on ARM has not been well supported. Because in the HPC area, it is a generally dedicated area. And it has been dominated by some open source project, but that one has not been well supported. So that way, why we address this problem? So we can see. So we choose why Luster, Dels, and BGFS. Because in the top 100, we observe that around half of the top 100 in the IO 500, they are using the open source solution, Luster, Dels, and BGFS as their backend file system. And to address, to fill this gap, so we have set up an open project. It is a collaboration project. We have collaboration with ARM and Hi-Silicon. So here I listed a project page. You can see more details, project information here. And in this project, we are doing the engineer work, the open source enablement, and the optimizations for a dedicated area. So the first one is HPC file system. I will elaborate today. And the other two is a traditional storage file system. So mostly, we are co-working with the CIF upstream to support the CIF ARM 64. And also the cloud native storage, yeah. So we have done some cloud native storage ones. For example, the mass store, and also the Rook to support the, to enrich the ARM ecosystem. So and also, if you have some more questions in the storage status on ARM, please feel free to post the information on the open discussion list. So yeah, so first one, Luster. Generally introduced Luster is a framework with the client and server. So the background for Luster is, so Luster client on ARM was being already supported several years ago. So that it means that you can use the Luster client to connect it with a remote Luster cluster, which can be offered by the X86 backend storage. And those one has already been adopted into the AWS service. So now the AWS has offered the Luster client to ARM 64 services now. But the server side, they support are just finished by Linaro and the Luster community. So I will give more discussions, give more upgrade here. So in the server side, it's generally running the metadata service, the management service, and the object store service. So the first is ARM 64 support and CI. So that one has been actually already finished by Linaro and Luster upstream. So if you want to try the ARM 64 Luster server and also the Luster client, we have already offered the ARM support. And you can go to the Luster download. And the main page will redirect it to the Linaro repo. And we will also set up the Luster ARM 64 builder and the CI. It is a daily running CI, which has been maintained but in our data center. And I will introduce more in the CI side. So the CI side, this is a very simple precise. So I just go through simply. So just grab on building every day and upload the RPMs to the right repo. And the other one is a follow-up for the builder CI. It's a testing CI. So for testing CI, the process you're already using the three-phrase. And we use the Terraform and OpenStack to provision the cluster every day, install configuration, and running the Luster testing. And then after that, so we will post the testing data to the model DB. The model DB is maintained by Luster upstream. So this is a panel for the different developers to see the CI status. So that would be very nice for the developers and users to see the current status and address different problem. And this is the test suite. So I just leave some information here for test suite because Luster has been already into production for maybe more than 15 years. And it has developed a lot of the test suite to cover different scenario. So the top four was a basic function test suite. And for the regressions, the multi-client and the concurrency, and the failure regal race, and also there are configuration and deployment test suite. This one, actually, before we have fixed a lot of the bugs for test suite to make sure that the Luster server can work well. And actually, this work has to still work in progress. And we still need to identify more issues in the test suite because there are usually more than 2,000 test suite for a simple testing run every day so that this work has to still work in progress. And so Luster, it has a style that previously it was developed a lot of the sanity-related testing for the beta function. And also, in the following years, Luster want to address the new storage class. For example, the SSD, the NVME, so that it has also support some new features. For example, I see here, at least here, is a hierarchical storage management, the failure redundancy, and also the persistent client cache. So that one also, for the dedicated new feature, Luster community also write a new class, a new suite, to cover these different features so that in this, we call it advanced features. We can also observe some 64 failures. But fortunately, we have fixed almost all of them, but still need to address more. So I live here about the remaining issue. And yeah, so this is a critical bug fix for a critical one here that is a crash or cluster hon. We can obviously very easily to see that the Knobs or the testing hon for the generally running in the Luster server on the M64. So we have sort of the priorities here. And also, the top three of the crash are generally related with maybe the data structure alignment, which is different with ARM64 and X86. So the other one is a 64K page related. Because this one, the 60K page size is, I don't know if it's clear, is that this is only introduced in the ARM architecture. And usually in the X86, the 4K page is quite popular. And previously, in the ARM ecosystem, the CentOS 8 has using the 64K page as a badie for it so that some of the software need to doing some of the upper layer software need to doing some cold change to adjust this. So that in Luster, it is a kernel mode file system. So it also has tried to support the 64K page size. And also, Luster introduced a page size translation between the 4K page server in the X86 and the 64K page client on the ARM client side. So it has actually introduced some new problem. I live here for the strapped directory and also the red stock. So that we have also fixed this. But from our point of view, we don't know to advise the user to use the 64K page in the future. Because currently now, most of the operation system in ARM architecture side, so the CentOS 9. So the 1, 2, and so in China, there is another one called OpenULA. So they have changed back to 4K page size now. And the last one is OpenZFS. The OpenZFS is back in the file system, which has been leveraged by Luster in the server side for the metadata service and also the OSS. We found that the OpenZFS checksum algorithm, this is a body-forted open features here, it'd be a hot point. And the performance is not very better for their previously neon support, so that we have doing all optimizations to increase the performance about 30%. Yeah, after the enablement, the new problem here is IL-500 test. So we have using the traditional configuration for 10 node, so the file server and the file client. So after we increase the high concurrency for Luster, we observe some new problem. It's still the critical one, which induces the kernel of OSS. So I left it here. Those one were actually dedicated with the ARM architecture, so if you have more information, you can come to this link to see more information. And the Luster 3 ones was related with the configurations. For the OpenZFS backend, we observe the OMQ. And also for the testing, we have also testing the environment for when you run an MDT test and then using Control C to destroy the cluster. And we observe, obviously, CPU software lockup. And after that, we have solved this problem by changing the RPC. And we found that the problem is RPC configurations. So we have changed and recommended the information here. And also another one is using MPIL to access the IL-500 test to try to achieve more regular testing and better performance. Also, so we have fixed some more testing suite issues. Much of them are related with the hard-coded or page size issues in the Luster testing suite, because previously, that one was dedicated and designed for the X86. So there are still some more testing suite issues for the recovery, the persistent client cache, and something else we are still working on. And the last part is open EULA support. So the reason why I listed here for open EULA is it is another operation systems, which is quite popular now in China. And now it's a 35% margins in the Chinese market this year. And for Luster upstream, previously, we offered packages for the CentOS-8 stream. And we want to have a more stable operation system. And we want to make the Luster to be available with so-called can support operation system seek. So that we have collaboration with the open EULA SDS seek and offer in the package and maintain the package. We will also pass the Luster testing according to the open EULA release schedule. So now we've finished the Luster client support in open EULA and continue to finish the server support on the EULA. By supporting this side, because of open EULA LTS-20.03 are offered the 5.10 kernel in its kernel, which is quite different with CentOS-8, so that we've also backported the Luster LDCFS patches on the LDCFS so that to support the 5.10 kernels. And also, this work was being finished by Linaro and the Luster upstream. Also, the dependencies, yeah. Because previously, we are testing the Luster on CentOS. So on CentOS side, they open the ZFS and also the E2 file system progs. So E2FS progs, those one was already being supported on the CentOS, but that's one has not been supported on open EULA. So even though open EULA is an RPM-based file system, sorry, even though the open EULA is an RPM-based operation system, so that we've done the build support for open ZFS and also the E2FS system progs in the open EULA to make sure that the Luster server and client support can be addressed in the open EULA. And this one will be released on January 13, if I remember right, in the open EULA 20.03 LTS-SP2. Here is the engineering work. So I don't want to go through very, very detail, but our target to move to open EULA is the Luster version 2.15.x stable release. And next one is the first top priority for us is switch the Luster CI to 4K. Because when we are work previously, it was based on CentOS 8 on running the daily test. We found more issues, which would be introduced more complex to support the Luster on open to support Luster on our 64 servers. And we'll talk with different community and upstream. And also the customer side, much of them does not have quite interest on 64K page so that we will move to 4K page to solve the problem. And the other one is continue to fill in the Luster on 64 test suite. So there are still less than 15 test issues we're trying to fix. And then DELS is a so-called distributed asynchronous object storage. So this one was previously supported by Intel. So Intel has promotes these solutions basically for their non-volatile memory, not only the NVMe, but also the SCM, the storage class memory. But so unfortunately, we know that Intel has dropped the bin list of opt-in. But the DELS upstream, currently now, is still there. And also it is a popular priorities for the Intel HPC war because the common server in the HPC market, Intel also want to propose the solutions for their server with NVMe and the future of their server with, for example, the UCI-based memory. DELS now previously was designed to have very good APIs and data structures with AI workflow and also the big data workflow. Here, I listed the DELS public community roadmap because some of our community members also have this problem is if the DELS will continue to live, even though the Intel has dropped the opt-in bin list. And we can see that from the DELS two down four, the upstream has plan to move their metadata management service from their persistent memory to the NVMEs first. Because Intel had dropped the opt-in, the storage class memory, but they still want to make sure that those projects are not be bounding with the opt-in memories. And those work will be finished maybe one year around the two DELS versions. And in the future, we can see that the upstream has a tension on the CCHI or UCI-based memories. Because this one was quite popular technologies in the future for the storage. So what have we have done for the DELS on ARM64? So first one is a build. So that was an Intel-based, Intel-controlled community. But they are open to support more architectures. So that we will cover with them to fix the data structure check issue, the SPDK build, and also a dependency for the IPM control. So this tools is, the IPM control is a persistent memory control libraries. So those are only running on Intel side. And other simple supported and other DOP packages and the telemetry. So after that, the DELS has supported build on ARM64. So since the DELS 2.3 version. And also we've set up the DELS CI. The DELS CI now has been included the two builders for IPM1, for Open Susy Leap, and the ARM Linux one. The DB builder is running for the Ubuntu 20.0, 22.04. And also we've set up the node local test CI to doing the landing testing after each patch merge. So in the red picture, it's a landing test build. We can see that it will be running after each of the PR merges. And if you have more informations, we have read a wiki in the DELS wiki side to record more informations. And yeah, so the IL-500. So those one will be even tricky for the DELS ARM64 because we don't have the persistent memory on ARM. And all we have is the first is the NVMN. The NVMN is the memory with a disk with a battery. So this one cannot be a very big capabilities. And also for the testing convenient, we're using the real memory to emulate the ICM. That mechanism has been officially supported to make sure that testing will be simple. So that has introduced a problem I listed in the last part. So the first one and the other one is a remaining issue is a 64K page size crash. So we have now fixed this. And after some debugging, we found that it will be a tricky issue and also somehow, and much of the customers now does not have the 64K page interest so that we will just live there. So yeah. But for a 4K page, it's supported well. And the IL-500, exception exists, is much about the capabilities of our emulation because the memory-emulated ICM's capability is very small. And for DELS, it has previously supported. And suited for the big-size storage class memory. And usually it will store the small block less than 4K and to the ICM by default. And also it will also, for each target, it will also allocate the memory, the 2G memory ICM and the 10G NVMe. But it will be very easy to consume all the ICM so that we can very easily observe the IL-500 exists. So after changing those two, we can get a validated result after changing this. So after changing this, we can get comparative performance on some unassisted full servers compared with X86. But now, at least, it's a BGFS. As a BGFS one, we've done something. The first is address the very critical issues on the AMV9.2 version, CPUs, and the copy from copy to user. So that one is bound to be related with two-arm features called PAN and UAO. So the time is limited. So I don't want to brief where a detailed introduction, but all the information has been recorded in the BGFS 7.3 release note. So now from the BGFS 7.3, the ARM supported has been officially announced. And we've covered with Heslican and SimpleQ to doing the performance evolutions to run the IL-500 test on ARM with NVMe and InfiniBand. And also, we can get some better performance with the parameters changing and the Neuma tunings. So all data information, we've published performance evolution by papers. So yeah, it would be very easy to gather more information if you have more interest. Yes. Yeah, so that is all my presentation for today. So any questions? Any questions? OK, thank you all for joining us today. Yeah, have a good day. Thank you.


I love these electric vans. They're so quick, so clean, so quiet, and they're lovely to drive. And I'm using way less energy so I can tell the grandkids I'm helping to save the planet.


Kuntrimen and women as the nation comes together in mourning, comes together in remembrance and celebration of the life of our dearly departed founding father of our nation, Dr. Kenneth David Kaunda. It is agreed and therefore directed that the United Party for National Development, UPND and all our alliance partners suspend active mobilization activities across the country for a couple of days until you advise otherwise. It is also agreed and therefore directed that all our people out there who are engaging in some active mobilization ought to seize for a while as the nation comes together in unity as we pay our last respects to our nation's founding father, Dr. Kaunda. We age all of our citizens across the country and I believe across the world to remain peaceful and united as we continue to reflect on the life of Dr. Kaunda and the immense sense of duty, service, sacrifice which he made as he led and saved our country over a number of years. I want to thank all of our citizens for the respect that they've accorded Dr. Kaunda over the years. I ask God to guide us during this difficult time and I also want to offer our sincere condolences once more to the family of Dr. Kaunda, the citizens of Zambia and the global village citizens as it were. I thank you, God bless us, God bless Zambia. Thank you.


I want to give a very, very big and special shout out to Akina, the people up there doing what they do, the magic that they do. Thank you Brenda, thank you Ndavo. Ndavo ni meskia lokasi kifika Westa ni kenya mnendakufanya. It's okay. Piyano e matutu mekwona and on that note I see a Sherry, somebody and I want to say hi. Thank you for watching Why The Morning and if. Uu na uko Erembo, muna sumuluwa na lokastu. Istu rea lokastu na ni nice. Wei na jena street floods. Istea mwa says, here who is being called by good night. Ki ebu itika raka raka siya tukfajia po. Minhu alatwa itwa for Facebook, itwa itwa for channel auditor. Hashtag is why in the morning. So you know it's about that time we're going to have a discussion with the kings and one queen. And the topic I think is important. Twanze mwaka vizuri, twa ce kupigana, twanze kupishana. Let us just understand each other or attempt to sendio. And if all else fails, I hope we can arouse some compassion in your heart. Fanevi, come to salimi wa tu. Hi, how are you? Ah, what's wrong? Is it because it's cold? Good morning. Yeah, I like that one. Let's try individually. Good morning. Mi, mi, mi, inaya kwa? Good morning. Yeah, okay, now we're good. Would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah, my name is Felix Weire. I'm a student of the University of Nairobi. What do you study? I study Utikulcha, 4th year. Thank you. Hi ma, how are you? I'm Kafika and Queen. How are you doing? I'm Kafiri. Now that is it. Aha. So, how are you doing? I'm Max Raya Joshu. Aha. I'm Mesa Benge. I study political science at Mount Kenya University. Karibusana and the very well known and very well missed. We have missed you. Missed you too, guys. My name is Zulu Benjamin. A lot of things, but for now, clinical psychologists. You added some more things when we were finishing the year. I was building on them. Now they are right. Wow, okay. What do you think? Who do you think rather is an empowered woman? Can I start with the lady of the group? Who do you think is an empowered lady? Kuna, very many schools of thought. Kuna niya na se ma empowered lady ni monya kuna do, monya kuna gari, monya niya na zadis pamiya. Kunengini na se matu empowerment ni ma ringo, haizi submit. So what do you think an empowered lady is? I think at this point we have for first differentiate empowerment or women empowerment for feminism. Because there are two different things. So inasmuch as it has a very small difference, but there are two different things. You know feminists can be empowered women, but not all empowered women can be feminists. We find like you get educated, you can provide for yourself. You are empowered. Educationally, financially you are okay, but somewhere in your mind there is a problem. And that pushes you to being a feminist. Now you lack what I might just call common sense. It gets to a point. I mean being empowered requires more of, once you are empowered you need common sense to drive each and every step you make. Because being empowered doesn't mean you start behaving like that's the end of the world. Like you start behaving like a feminist. I take it you don't like feminists. Not that I don't like them, it's just that I'm not one. Okay. What do you think about the empowered lady? I think an empowered lady is ideally a lady who knows about her rights. A lady who we can say she can be independent. And a lady who knows how to live without people. Because as she said, this is a confusion. Between feminists and empowered ladies. What do you think of feminists? It's just out of curiosity. We are not talking about feminists today, but out of curiosity. First of all, there are two types of feminists according to me. There's a feminist and there's a toxic one. So the toxic one is the one who tries to do how to do a man. What a man can do? Yeah, in fact wherever they are, two people she tries to perform better than the man at all costs. Even if it's with muscles she is. But a feminist just a general one is this lady who is trying to fight for women and who is trying to empower women. Dr. Zulu, what do you think? Let me ask ladies to avoid that term calling them just, I'm an empowered woman. We don't like it. Yes, you don't like it. We don't. Why now? Because power is a taboo in many society. It should say I'm looking for power who will mark this one and reject you. Because it contains no hard power, avoid it. I'll give you what to say. Say I'm a woman of value. I'm a woman of strength. I am mentally enlightened and I am not independent and I am not dependent. I am interdependent. I need you and you need me. I bring something to the table but I also need what you're bringing. Okay, so let me say today we're talking about women of value. Women of strength. Okay, because as we have said remember today quietly we all need power everywhere we go but we must keep it hidden. When you go to a place you need you need to get a position of advantage position of what serves your interest we always but we must do it under the carpet. You don't say that's what you're angling for. So don't call yourself empowered. Say I'm just a woman of value. I'm bringing value to the table. Hold it before you continue. I just want us to read that slide that's next because it has the definition according to Oxford. This has nothing to do with John. Oh, yeah, personal opinion. No, this is just according to Oxford. So empowerment is a noun and it's the process of becoming stronger and more confident especially in controlling one's own life and claiming one's rights. Again, the process of becoming stronger and more confident especially in controlling one's life and claiming one's rights. So where exactly does the fear stem from? Is it the confidence or the rights? I studied law and in law school we used to tell our colleagues who are ladies you know we are the best guys to marry you because we understand you but if you continue being this combative nobody wants to marry an activist. So we told them one guy they were joking they said if I know my wife who come from this class let me wear sack cloth early. She would be given insane. That's what we are saying. Anyway, it's because things like claiming your rights, being assertive is associated with being an activist and yet we associate a wife material with a home builder submissive is going co-operative naturally welcoming home. Talk to me now mamma because It's not about rebellion being an African woman and maybe a Christian lady we were taught of being submissive from the very first day of creation. You know when men were created before we made that show some sort of supremacy so in the society however much empowered you are they are superior that's one thing I really acknowledge they are superior and this is not to please boy child feel yourself you're superior in some way but it reaches a point where they are supremacy especially now this is an argument of the mind it is not physical power they have this issue of toxic masculinity one will say in the society in the patriarchal society it is a tabu to hit a man it's a tabu an empowered woman we look for ways a woman of value as Dr Benjamin said we look for a better way of solving issues than getting physical and the same way a man who is out to empower a woman we also look for better ways not only of solving issues but preventing issues from happening so in handling an empowered woman I mean it just needs some good brain and I'll repeat this use of common sense you be human you be kind you know you be human use common sense and respect them on that same note before even we go further na choumen na mada sana Felix but it's because they keep giving point that compliment each other that's why I like that you said you know your place yes so wajal nika matuli tolewa and yeah if you're christian you will believe certain things and maybe I don't know supiri is a big word let me not use that one but you came first so yes yata kuna first bone na kuna last bone yeah so I understand what you're trying to say but I also understand that you're confident I can see wezi and bebebo bebo too far less isn't you and that's something that he said that they are afraid of why are you afraid of the confidence of the woman who will say na takai naendeai ni ni ni the problem is when they do it they do it in a manner such that they want to engross geni kuna mada rao yeah kuna mada rao this is what I wanted guys now we are getting somewhere yeah uh huh kuna kama darao I'm uh I come from the village I was born and raised there and there are things I see happening there there is a lot of empowerment in the village women empowerment and luckily I don't see men empowerment I don't know where it is I don't know where it happens I don't know where it is koleni sana sas indotuna sa idea nasasa so at home we have things like table banking we have very many women groups they invest they get money at the end of it all and you know these women is enlightened she's been taught how to do everything and everything but the man maybe the man hasn't got through the education system we've been going through so the man is an African a typical one now it's coming to life the woman goes back at home with money the man is a drunkard so to say that the woman is enlightened and now she's been told that when you go home with this money you need to do this and this and this and this and this and this now man the man feeling that I'm the head of this home he must have had money when he came home later he got happy he got happy now that is when next chapter when we speak about all the things so what if when you are going to empower the woman tag along the man when you are saying these things the man will at least come out he would have a very good idea but he will not come out so after this time if the man comes out and tells you you are going to tell the man where that man is tell him who he is and if he comes out you will come out and tell him and when you come out and tell him who he is he will come out so in the process of precondition just to balance but I like that there is no there is no regrets that we have empowered the lady there is no result it's just there is no result We should empower the other one. In fact, I support the other one. You see, empowerment. I have been trying to tell you ladies and gentlemen, immense confluence, I hear mnema nesoto, just pick at least five ladies. Five! Five! I will just take all the countries, pick one lady from each of the countries that will be represented. We were to go to Seashells. See, let's go to Denam. No, we were to go to Seashells. Wakagundwa, venue, wakachom. Ya, so nelesoto. Just pick, that's even five eh. Uksha pikao five. They will just come back and give us information on how to treat you better. Mama, you see points nani? We're better as soon as kids they are. We are to treat you better. We are to fight for your rights.  Mama, I'm not going. Let me warn boys eh. Because you say, you should tag along the man. Men is because they are very independent and you got this too. Akinvaitu on mama hata kuja. Oh yeah, yes. Akinvaitu for those kinds of things ata kuja. Let me ask Ayam men that as long as we are talking as a group, we may need to be, that will never help you. Take it individually. Instead of starting dating the first time you land, come first, first year. Don't hunt for what you cannot hunt. Take your time to grow first. Men were born to be leaders. To lead a group, a family. To lead somewhere. And for you to lead, you need to be followable. You need to be inspiring enough. To have enough vision. To inspire girls to say, I think this guy is going somewhere. And let me tell guys that we are looking for strong women, the women you are talking about today. And all strong women, they are so supportive. They can't and they believe in your potential. But you must be a dreamer. Because a woman who believes needs a dreamer to match up with. If they realize they came here to support you, they are burning with energy. What do you think can do together? They are seeing potential in you. But you are here scattered. You are just worried who she talked to yesterday. Who is that you are chatting with? Who I saw you online? You do not respond to my chat. Who is this where we are wearing? Who are you meeting? I saw you online. Who was that you are talking to? So most of these guys, because they are weak when they find a strong man, they become insecure. And instead of letting her fly, they tie her down. And you girls stop beginning so low. I keep talking to girls who they are so worthy, you know? And I tell them, good men are rare but they are there. And they are looking for you.  This difference between a grown man and a boy who grew beards. When you see beards, we have guys who have beards but they don't have brains. They are old, they talk like 17-year-olds. You know, they need to behave that way. Remove that dress. Remove that shoe. You can't go out like that. And the fact that you pay in your house, I don't think I can pay. Instead of being happy that somebody lifted the weight and a teta that you lifted the weight. Those are boys. Again, the size of men is determined by their brain, by their thoughts, not their pocket and the car. Be careful of Subaru. Somebody said you see a Subaru. When you see a Subaru racing, when you see a Subaru in a guy in a suit, Subaru racing on Tuesday, he's going for court case for child support. Ah! Anyway. Ah, yeah, yeah, my choice. It was on a light note to say. This is 20 years. It was on a light note to say. Girls, if you continue dating cars, if you continue dating the pizza we can buy you, men who are dreamers, men who are dreamers are looking for a woman who has strength to support. Not a girl looking for a party, just a party, a person who can fund you for another.  What? In some ways, we're recording this. We're looking for a break. And if you... Where are we? One number volume, we'll put it on.  Like a pishori. Not ready to eat, but very valuable. And be done by the family. But if you're ready to eat, tutakula to pambuza, we don't want a 20. And men know the difference, only that we don't tell you. Put yourself there like a woman who we are looking for. Men, why do they pretend to be saved and go to church to look for girls? Because they know good girls are there. And they do it for you. We go to club to enjoy, but we want to marry, go to church. Hoi, hoi, hoi. It's an open secret among men. So when you talk about strong women, you should take your time to be strong in terms of build your values. Imagine being a home builder. Imagine that. That's what the man is looking for. You know, when you start, when we are partying, we get party gals. When you want to marry, we calm down. Ha guy, I think now I'm serious. Oh, are you feeling something? Are you feeling a vibe? Are we being educated? Because of the boy child? I also feel, I also feel attacked. Talk to me, why do you feel attacked? Why? No, on a late night. That's okay, but some is... This guy, someone was beard-centred and I just fell. Yes, there's two. Sorry, sorry. Yeah. We're okay? This guy is tall, dark-handsome. Is there a deal? I guess yes. And you know, it's the deal. Both guys are too young. I don't get it. Akonadi dimples. Guys, dimples. Zoom, zima homo, zoom. Okay, so I got a couple of scenarios of what the empowered woman is viewed as in society, maybe if we continue. But as we are doing that, Ustistahao, we are going to contribute at WI-Five on Facebook, at WI-Five for a channel, Twitter and Instagram. So, empowered or not. These are just scenarios. You tell me if she's empowered or not. She pays her own bills on time. Is this being empowered or not? You should not marry a girl from my mother's house. This is a statement. Ustimutuwa kwao. Ngojia stwaguna rent kwanza. What do you mean? Dili sikutili pa rent appreciate. Ah, that is a need. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. I would agree with you. Accept. Nimeskia mutuwa kisema. Ati una... Yani anafaku kaapo. Akituwa kwa mama kia enimkora. Mm-mm. That was the inskwa many were talking about. You need a girl who has learned how to look for money and pay bills. Who can appreciate the simple things you did because ame oi lipa kasensiyo pinch. Na ame ono me lipa kasensiyo. Ah, you have done something useful today. Bakimi kama odi katoa kwao. Akajel lipa emiti. Umikika miya presa imesia rent. So you are not contributing your budget. You need to learn how to do this. Why did you bring me here? Where's my yoga? I want to buy outing. Wait. Is that a woman or a girl? Girl and woman is about mentality.  You can be certain you're a girl. Which one? The first or the second? The pizza girl or the wife's material? Girl. There you are talking about a girl. Here we are talking about women. Yes, so I'm saying this one, she pays her bills on time. That's now the strong woman we are talking about. Okay. All right, next. We have a... Hey, doctors, little people have missed you. I'm here even following up our Facebook. Hey, it's been missed, eh? Okay, all right. She feels she cannot date a man who is beneath her status. These are the cup people. They see the picture, the other girl is. The power don't know. We say we stand by that woman and she pays her. Maybe he inherited. And you mean you also inherited. Some guys have reached now, but they are on their way down. They are manas, but they are squandering the money. They got fortunes, but they are growing bankrupt day by day. Other guys are down. I told people when you find a broke guy, before you date him, investigate whether he is also lazy. Because some guys are broke, but they are lazy. Others are broke, but they are hardworking. They climb being. You can see they are restless.  They are not a kazi, but they are not humanish.  You know, it's about me for now. You know, don't do that. That's a pest. That's a project. It's not a partner. You are not taking a project. So, women are. Projects that you and your partner are. Partner needs to know. Projects that you and your partner are. Next time bring a topic called empaths and the narcissists. Why they find each other. Empaths are those guys who are so massive. Guys are so massive for the NGO rescuing. And the narcissists are so self-absorbed. They want you to commit to just help them. So, you girls sometimes are so massive. You feel you want to be needed, especially first borns, to bring up their siblings. They find siblings everywhere. Even after they have grown up, they continue growing us. Why? The narcissists are looking for that. Be careful when you are the first daughter or the first born. You are cultured to take care of us. That's a direct chart. Okay, are you first born? Sorry. Nakumiza mahalima. Sorry. Let's reward this. But remember the ones we married first. I was looking for. We always know that she's a natural leader. No first born is neutral. Either she's very compliant or very defiant because there was a lot of influence and control from Muzazi. We were a lot of discipline. We had siblings and we were very good at kutiawa. We were very good at kutiawa. We were very good at kutiawa. We were very good at kutiawa. Someone clap for Dr. Benji. She was brought up to be a leader. Thank you. She was brought up to be a leader. Tuki said that the status of her is a mental thinking. Are we together? Yeah. Remember, character is what is constant. We call ABCD characters because they are characters 24-7. Character is what is not changing. Money changes. Wealth changes. Status changes. Don't go for these boys who are after social media status and following and they are flirting with the girls and you see them online. When will he... He's always online. When is he on earth? You need a person who has something going on on earth. You know. Up on ground. So the thing is... You never need to make a difference. You need many times a guy who you can think on the same label. So I encourage guys. After you see a lady who impresses you physically and you enjoy... Don't stop there. Go on to... Can we have conversations about other things? Do you have a passion? Do you have a fire within you? What do you long for?  Do you like children? Do you like the poor? Do you like business? Do you like... What do you like? A girl who is busy is easier to love. Zababaidoa. Who remembers these 45 minutes you texted me and you remember what I called 10? I called 10 and I called 4. I called 10 and I called 4. I said, a girl who is busy is better to love. I said, do you need your stories to talk? Something was going on in her life. But didn't you see that there are counting moment times that are not called and there are a list of mistakes? No other men don't come home they go to the club. Why? You remember me, I saw you were back here. So you are back here. You don't meet me in the morning. I saw you were going to eat. You can't even eat. I saw you were going to eat. Simba has a lot of things that she has to cook. Yeah. Demo, if you say no. Yes. You can't even say no. But talk out. We gotta go to another one. Another case, yes. Here we go. Empowered or not? Remember you can be part of the conversation too. WhiteFive for Facebook at Y254 channel on Twitter. Hashtag is one in the morning. So she fights for equal rights of the genders. Empowered or not? Woo! But Twanza na Felix. Jaya me yama la sana. That is we come there. Take this definition of an importer. Aha. She fights for equal rights. She fights for equal rights of the genders. That is 50-50. Kama una lipoi, yata mi lipoi. Yeah. Kama mi nenda kichenku pika tawo wenda ut kichenku pika.  No, no, no, no. I'm waiting for his last word. Unfortunateli must have empowered. Empowered.  We took around that. Yeah. All of you can agree. They are very different. An empowered man ignores this. She wants that kama watu ana lipoi 50. Yeah, payway 51. No, no. Na hata pika kelelai 51, it's okay. Do you look at me? She is empowered. She can speak. No, no. But this is a clear definition. That's why, in fact, I'm an advocate of the idea that people should be empowered equally. People should... Be careful what you are saying. It's a minute, pure. Because the next thing is when do you change the power of the tamkayo 3? I have no problem. No problem. In fact, up to date, up to date, up to date, I stay with the brother. I have no problem with cooking. I have no problem with doing dishes. Yeah, fast one. Was chana angusheni CV and as a pika. Okay. I'm alive. So, you know, for me, if you get each other, if you can understand each other, it's like you are your companions. There's nobody above the other. There's no rivaling. Yeah, there shouldn't be someone above the other. Okay. It's an agreement. Okay. Do this, I do this. But some kids, sawe mwenyo na chakau kweju, umikakwa coach, you are watching Maria and I'm there cooking. There's a problem. Not possible. There's a problem. We should be doing it. Talk to me. I think, ladies, that is where we usually go on. Equality. Equality is where you are. Equal. And being equal means what I say is the same thing you should be saying even if you have a different opinion that can even be better than mine. Wow. Your opinion could be better. But now since we are equal, once you give an opinion, we can't argue about it. Because I feel I also have the power to give my opinion and since you have accepted that we are equal, that remains it. Now handling an empowered woman, let's talk of dating an empowered woman where I have, okay, I have male friends. Most of the time, actually, most of my friends are male as a person. So I always tell myself I can't fit where they are because what they talk about now it's not new to me, it's common. But when dating, they won't see you as a potential wife or maybe as a potential girlfriend. You become their buddy. I mean, they should see some difference from you and them. But once you share so much in common, just because you think you are so empowered, so you can argue with them I want someone that is now me talking out of my knowledge, not as a man. I'm talking now. Because we don't know what men are because we are not men. Maybe. If you don't know. Natuazi fanaana. Yeah, so, okay. A man wants someone when he can listen.  We can't be equal. Maybe I'm better in something, you're better in something else. You love financially, I'm okay. Labdew lianda, ishule sana punishinda mimimimu anyi kwa nyumba. We can't be equal. But if it gets to getting equal, sometimes ladies tuna kwa seya. Because there are things, even, I mean, being masculinity, wuna kwa tamu nomen na zafanya kitu something you cannot do. But being now that, kia rehae re. I know it's kia rehae re by the way. Apokwa kia rehae re ni point. Mekubale yo. Tuna kwa atu, like, we can do this, we can do this, bla bla bla. And in real sense, you sit down and say, tule kwa kwa grupi na kinana, nia kwa nende na zafanya kitu. And then you'll sit here. I know, you can't just do it. Wuna wana kwa visa, this is impossible. Na utaibu shindoa. Ana utaibu shindoa. Fanya evi. Now that we know how us, we are feeling, we want to know how you're feeling, okay? Kido goto because I, the time is running away from us. We have a sherry pause. Kala miwa, hi. Aki embo akuna lokas. Akuna hamkuli lokas. Naske kwanzo kizi roast. Benja isalutiu, imagine. Benja, I love your thinking capacity. Nia ni, unongia sense. Baka una nifanya ni stockenje. Just to listen to your words. He's coming by the way next Monday. Sia ti. Sia ti niyo. Misifah Godia says, men should just sit down and wait for miss, what? Just wait to be mistreated. Empawad women wakuna kiburi. Men have to hustle pamoja wa pate upona doza ho. Oi. Rozi, baby, they should handle them just like any other lady who he loves. I think the man saw the lady first, not his success. And again, being successful as a lady does not make you the man. Volium apu utongezha. Again, yeah? Being a successful lady does not make you a man. The girlfriend thing will just remain. Ataku, we... I mean how it doesn't make you a man. Good morning, savior maestro. Good morning, savior. Understanding each other is key to any successful relationship. Like any... Aki mea pende mobilize. A-a. Honorable surga. I see you. Ati stop asking. Strategize. Organize. Mobilize. Because... A-a. She said it. Vogma de afrikana. Good morning. Ati pema demo na faku jovilewa na umewa ako. A-a. Ii video ikueni the secrets to a man's heart. So, Lewis Moril. Okay, wajiru. Good morning. Fasni kudra what has empowered her, for example, ati a BMW driver can't be treated the same way as a Mercedes and a Porsche driver. Ah, futzuki sisi wada tukosem. So... Charles Ireri, following from Sharmata, Nyandaro County, Brian Mukaba. Good morning. Watching from Rironi, Kiambo County, Dominiki Nga. Good morning, Kabati. Kafati. Keno. Well represented. Tuned as usual. Woh. Okay. Fomili kwaivi. I ask specifically, in particular, that we have a two-part series for this. So this was part one. We will continue with part two. Is that okay? And then to public demand side, please just make time for this on Monday. I will come. We are together. I can't wait. You see, he loves it just as much as we do. Faniwi, you have an amazing day. Keshoni, entrepreneurial Tuesday. You do not want to meet. Zulu Benjamin Page. Zulu Benjamin Page on social media. Zulu Benjamin at Gmail. Namba, in case you want more consultation, canceling and all that, 0101 360 060. 0101 360 060. Thank you. Your number more in a kawaii adevo. 0101. It's a simple, come 0101. That's the current trend. Wow. 0101 360 060. Okay. Do you have a very cool number you want to give us also? Am I social media at all? Social media. Tell us. Ryan will bring you all social media. I ask you a smile to pay. Van, should I scream? I'm not cut to smile. I'm not cut to smile. I'm not cut to smile. Like that, please. Ryan will bring you all social media platforms. Thank you. Alex? Social media platforms. Felix will bring him all platforms. Neme me naitua wa itua faifu on Facebook, atua itua faifu on Twitter, and the hashtag remains to be random money. Have an amazing day. Bye. We will. Bye. Bye.


First question is from land three Emma. What are the physical and mental signs of overtraining?  It's like oh good I'm just gonna push harder. I'm gonna keep going just got a barrel through it And so it's important to identify these signs and signals because what you don't want to do Here's what overtraining can do it can actually not only halt progress, but actually start to you start to go backwards I've done this to myself many times where I keep going keep going keep going not only did I stop progressing But I started to go backwards in my strength and in my stamina and once you get to that point It's hard to come out of it. So some of it here's some of the easiest signs for me. Okay Lingering achiness and stiffness in my joints. That's a big one Yeah, so where you feel like strain muscle strain like the insertion point of my pack or my you know My break your ready Alice muscle or you know areas like that where you know They kind of just they don't seem to get better They're just kind of always lingering and then I got to warm up more and stretch them more before my workouts So that's a big one the other one is and this one is this one is pretty consistent with for me at least and for For a lot of clients have trained. I start to get crappy sleep I start to I'm exhausted and tired But I get that restless sleep where you you wake up a lot throughout the night or you toss and turn And you can't just get into that deep sleep and then you wake up even more fatigue That was a clear one for me. Sometimes I think this is actually Harder for the advanced lifter Sometimes I think that like to your point of you know, you've been you've you've trained through soreness You've trained through a tired day You've trained through a day where you didn't get very much sleep and then you felt better after you trained And so you've been conditioned to you know push through no days off, right? I mean, that's a you know popular hashtag and you see it on social media all the time And so I think it's actually harder for somebody who's advanced sometimes to read some of these signals Because of that I think you know a subtle one that is hard to really catch for a lot of people is like a real hard Plateau in your training where you you're not progressing anymore Or you may even see like you go to the gym and you were weaker this week than you were the week before and Some people just kind of chalked that up as oh, it's I'm off today or wasn't a good day or whatever But that could also be a sign that you probably need to rest a little bit more or feed a little bit more or pay Attention to what your sleep is or pay attention to the volume of your training The other though the one for me that I the that I the two that I like kind of watched the most Is like you when I'm I because I do it a lot still is overreaching. I did it a little bit today I'm like I'm my low back is sore way more sore than it should be why'd you push too hard Did you work out with someone? I worked out with Doug dude You worked out with the Beast don't be fooled by that guy. Yeah, he's the ever-living. Yeah I just you know, I made the mistake of like Doug's like are you gonna use the dog the platform or I say Doug I'll just do whatever you're doing.  I can after I come in I can't back out and be like oh good.  Yeah, you're the trainer Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah, so yeah, I know so I'm paying but that's just it right a big classic example Of I over trained I did not need to either lift as much weight as as Doug was doing for that Or as many reps as I was doing I've could have done maybe, you know Half of that and probably got just as good of a workout for myself So those are the that's the first one and then the other one is you said is the achy joints when I was Training heavy and hard and and consistent like, you know, five to seven days a week every week The first thing that would always let me know that I was trained over training was my joints My knees my elbows, you know battling that stuff all the time I felt like I was beginning to spend as much time trying to recover from that You know, doing deep-tissue massage doing all these mobility drills and stuff because everything was aching putting myself back together Just so I could go hammer to get in the gym and really if I just scale back a bit on the volume or the intensity I could really solve that and a lot of times for advanced lifters It's because you're staying in a phase too long, you know You could be you could be over training that way of training for too long of a period of time And one of the best things you do is just transition out of that and give your body a different signal Well, also to tie in kind of what you guys both are saying like all those factors for sure But energy and motivation Uh, sort of like ties that all in together for me and I pay attention to that in terms of what I'm bringing Into each workout and and I never used to really care so much about that going into workouts because I was in that mentality of like I'm going to do this by hell or high water regardless of like how my body feels or You know, whatever it is. It's like a mental discipline thing more than anything And that would mask a lot of these signals that my body was telling me you didn't get enough sleep You overreach your two sore Uh, you know all these factors you have joint pain, uh, you know that all plays into Uh, really realizing that um, you you can you can get to a place where you charge up You get more energy after you work out Going into the next day and I didn't really know that was a thing until I started to pull back The intensity and really scale that to find what the appropriate amount was specifically for me, uh, and and that just changed the game That changed the whole environment for me in terms of like, uh, you know Getting gains but also like breaking through plateaus and then going, you know, even further than I've ever been before


Hello, everyone. I am here with an expert. This is Dr. Katelyn Jadalina, who is an epidemiologist and a biostatistician, and she is here today to answer all of our burning questions about COVID-19, the Delta variant vaccinations, and more. Dr. Jadalina, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. So for anyone who's unfamiliar with Dr. Jadalina's work, I just want to share it with you because it's excellent. So she has a sub-stack. It's called Your Local Epidemiologist, and basically everything that I have questions about, she answers it. The blog does a really great job at explaining the complexities of science and how it's constantly changing. Like, science is not static. It's dynamic, and that's the beauty of it. So you're kind of giving up the up-to-date news, and so I really appreciate that. So the first question that I wanted to ask is about the new booster shots that we're hearing quite a bit about. I know that the White House just has announced that as of September 3rd, Americans will be able to receive a booster shot after eight months of getting vaccinated, pending FDA and CDC approval. What do you know about the booster shots? Yeah, it's been a really confusing ride. I'll say that in the past two months. So what do we know about the booster shots? Well, first of all, what do we know about the vaccines right now with Delta? One, vaccines continue to work really well against hospitalization and death. I think we're actually really lucky that it is. The real question what's really up for debate right now is how well do the vaccines work against mild and moderate disease? And we unfortunately in the United States don't have real-time data. We actually don't have a great surveillance system in the United States because of a chronically underfunded public health system that's decentralized. I mean, I could go on for hours about that, but so we don't have the data in the United States. So what we look at is the UK and Israel. And what they're showing us is that after time, about six months, our vaccines start to wane a little like the efficacy, the effectiveness of those vaccines aren't as good. For example, if you got vaccinated in January compared to if you got vaccinated in April or May or June or July. And that is really what drove the White House COVID task force yesterday to really push the need for a booster shot. And so it was very clear that this is a proactive approach, which I actually applaud them for. We've been playing a very reactive game in this pandemic in the United States. So I like the proactive approach. I think it's stirred up a lot of debate, though, among scientists. If we do even need a booster shot, you know, antibodies isn't the only protection we have in our human body. We also have an adaptive system like T cells and memory B cells that are a lot harder to measure. So we don't even know if those are working. We assume that they are. So why would he even need a booster shot? There's also the whole global equity. You know, why are we taking three booster shots if only 30% of the world has a vaccine? You know, if a variant pops up in Peru, it's going to affect us directly anyways. And so it's stirred up a lot of debate. But what it looks like is we'll be getting booster shots starting September 20th, but only if or especially if you have the mRNA series, so Pfizer or Moderna shot. We don't know yet what's happening with Johnson and Johnson. We're waiting on that data. I'm glad that you brought up the global vaccine efficacy because that's something that I've been talking about quite a bit on this program. And there's a lot of countries that haven't been able to vaccinate large portions of their population. So this does definitely raise some questions about whether or not those of us in, you know, the developed world should be doing this. Having said that though, you know, when the public health officials say get your booster shot, I'm going to be the first in line to make sure I do everything I can. Honestly, that's right. You know, I rather my vaccine go to someone else, but the reality is it's way beyond my control. And the reality also is we're throwing away millions of shots a day in the United States just because no one's getting even their first dose. And so, yeah, I mean, it eventually helps also stop transmission with this third booster. So it's necessary in the long run. Is it necessary now? That's up for debate, but it is a proactive approach. So I wanted to ask about the necessity of boosters and this might not necessarily be something that you can answer at this point in time. Are the boosters needed because just in general the mRNA, the efficacy of those vaccines decrease over time? Or do you think that the Delta variant is what is decreasing the efficacy? So we actually don't know that answer yet. We don't know if it's because of Delta or it's because of the waning immunity or more likely, which I think it's going to be a combination of the both. We are still trying to sort through the data. And again, we just can't sort through the data in the United States because we're not collecting it, which continues to baffle me. And so we don't know. What we do know is that the coronavirus is mutating every two weeks, really high transmission in the globe. We are worried that the next variant or the next two variants or three variants will eventually escape our vaccines altogether. And so what our goal right now is, which the booster shot will help is to decrease transmission as much as possible. Right. That is really important. From my understanding, every single time the virus spreads, that's another opportunity for it to mutate. And so if it's mutating at this rate of every two weeks, I know that you don't have a crystal ball. But how long do you think it would take for a new variant of concern to emerge that actually does bypass the vaccines? I know that the Lambda variant that emerges out of Peru is a variant of concern and there's not much information yet. But I mean, do you think it would be unreasonable to predict that in a year, a new variant could go straight through to the vaccines? It's a really good question and one that's actually really complex to answer. I'll kind of give you like a higher level. So we know the coronavirus isn't mutating as quickly as the flu. So that's why we need a new vaccine every year, just because the flu changes so quickly. On the other spectrum, coronavirus is mutating faster than, for example, the measles, which hasn't changed since the 60s. So coronavirus is somewhere in between. We think that our hypothesis is that we'll need a shot every couple of years. The reason we need lots of shots right now is because this thing is mutating so fast. Transmission is so high. Once we get transmission down and keep it down, the rate in which this thing changes will also decrease over time. It'll decelerate. So we don't know. Honestly, it could be tomorrow that this thing mutates. It could be never that it mutates to escape our vaccines. It's just not a game that we're wanting to play. You mentioned Lambda. There's actually really good news that came out this week that Lambda is actually fizzling out. So it may have been more dangerous, but it's not more transmissible than Delta. So it can't push Delta out of the way, which is fantastic news. The other thing we're paying attention to right now is Delta Plus, which is the Delta variant with another mutation on the spike protein. We're keeping a close eye on that. Very low rates in the United States right now. So the threat right now is Delta. That's good news about Lambda actually. I was trying to follow that as much as I could, but that's really encouraging to hear. Getting a little bit more doomer, however, is I've noticed that there is a correlation between increased COVID-19 cases among children and the prevalence of the Delta variant. Now, from what I understand, there's not necessarily proof that there is a causal relationship, but what do you know about the Delta variant's effect on kids? Because I know that there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that hospitals are filling up. PICUs are reaching full capacity in some places and it's really, really concerning. So what do you know about the Delta variant as it relates to children? Yeah, it is. The numbers are concerning. In the South, when it's really concerning right now, our PICUs are full. We don't know whether Delta is more severe than previous variants. We have a little bit of evidence from Scotland and Canada that Delta is more severe for adults. And so we're kind of making the assumption that it's maybe a little more severe for kids as well compared to past variants. The good news is though, honestly, we're very lucky because the rate of severe disease among kids compared to adults is so low. And this is really weird. Typically in viruses like H1N1, kids are the most vulnerable and elderly are the most vulnerable because of their weak immune systems. And that's just not the case with coronavirus. And I think we got really lucky. With that said, though, if hospitalization is around one to two percent with COVID, we have 50 million kids in the United States that are unvaccinated. One to two percent of 50 million is a lot of people. And so on an individual level, right, the risk is low. The problem is you start looking at a population level and then we start talking about needing to flatten the curve again. We are going to overwhelm our health care systems. We're already seeing that in the South. And that is what truly the concern is for epidemiologists or public health officials. The other thing that's really important, which I actually think gets kind of pushed to the side a lot, is the risk of severe disease is lower among kids. The problem is that it is clear that kids have a very important role in the transmission chain. They are able to spread the virus very efficiently and effectively and sometimes even better than adults. And so that's why it's even important when we start talking about schools, right? Yes, we're very concerned about the kids health, the teachers health, but also their role in keeping transmission down won't work because they keep spreading it too. And so that is a really important key into ending this thing, is ending transmission among kids as well. Yeah, and you talk about the proactive versus the reactive response when it comes to policy. And we're seeing some kids resume schooling and they're having to go into quarantine because there's hundreds of cases in some instance. What do you think is the good policy prescription as an expert in this field? I mean, should distance learning be resumed? I know that there's a lot of COVID fatigue and people are just kind of over it. But having said that, though, it's still really serious. And as you said, kids are transmitting it. So what do you think would be the best thing for parents to do as they make their decisions in the Pacific Northwest? School is resuming in a couple of weeks. What do you think is the best decision if you had like a magic wand and you can institute the correct policy like that? Yeah, so I've always been a big proponent that we need schools open. There's a lot of value of instruction learning. There's a lot of value, especially with when we start talking about equity. People, kids rely on schools for food, for safety, for, I mean, there's so many reasons beyond just school. And so I've always been a big proponent of that. But there's a big if though. And that's if and when we implement public health mitigation measures. We can open schools safely in the middle of the pandemic. We saw this study after study after study last year that a lot of schools opened up and with masks with this layered approach of testing of distancing of good ventilation and schools and classrooms. Transmission was really low and even low among a community with the background of community transmissions very high. So we have the tools to do it. And the problem is, and I think this is what you kind of hinted at is the ability, at least in the South to implement those without getting clients without going to jail. And so that that's the challenge right now is convincing people to follow the science to open school safely. And, you know, there's there's been certain states such as Florida where mask mandates at the school level have been banned by the governor. And this is something that doesn't really make any sense from a scientific standpoint and part of it is misinformation. But we're seeing increasingly more anti mask rhetoric disproportionately from conservative news outlets. This is one of the most popular box news Tucker Carlson, one of the most prominent news hosts in the world or in the country, I should say. Why, why are people suddenly against masks in your opinion? You know, I've seen countless videos about the way that they are very effective. It's a very simple thing that you can do to stop the spread of the disease. What is, do you think it's just fatigue? Like, how is this misinformation spreading again after I feel like we kind of put a cap on it? Yeah, I think it has to do with with multiple things. I think one, there was a huge mistake that CDC dropped the mask mandate in May. I mean, I can talk for hours about that. It was a really big mistake. And so you lose the social you lose the the the social pressure to wear masks, right? Even from vaccinated to there's always been never maskers.  Wow. And so there's always been that rhetoric. I think the other thing that has Delta's changed the game. And we are having we as in who have public health officials are having a really hard time telling that story that this isn't last fall. But this is actually a whole nother ball game we're playing with. And I think people look at last fall and schools were open, maybe half capacity, kids did fine. You know, the hospitals didn't over whatever surge, but this is a different landscape. And people have a hard time one following the science and then to understanding why it's a different landscape and things just won't work the same as it did last year. Yeah. Can you talk through the the threats that you receive from anti maskers? That's really interesting because you have a very popular Facebook page. And I think that what you're doing is so incredibly valuable. It's nice that you have a big following because what I've seen from my personal experience is that Facebook is one of the biggest sources of for the spread of misinformation.  After not being there for a while, I see like my past coworkers, some family members spreading anti mask anti vaccine misinformation. And to me, it really feels real when it reaches like the normie community and my personal life. What is the response on Facebook because that's where you see so much of this. So how has it been for you as an individual?  Do you feel comfortable kind of elaborating on that? Yeah. I mean, I think it's the reality of any public facing figure. And it is what it is.  They come in waves. They come from different groups. Like I said, and Nevermaskers was last summer. Now it's the anti-vaxxers, especially when the kids stuff starts coming out with vaccines. And so it's it's the reality of the game. And honestly, I've gotten very jaded about it.  Now I was actually doxxed. So my work information was published on a pretty brutal site. And so people started calling my work phone and leaving harassing messages. And so to me, that wondered me closer is a lot more scary than what someone says online to me. And and so, you know, I it's and why is it happening? I think it's happening for a lot of reasons and a lot of really big reasons, right? Beyond the pandemic of politics of anti science aggression of people are very stressed and confused. And there's an overload of information and frustrated and whatever. And and so you just kind of get the brunt of that. But yeah, it's it's the reality. And I'm not the only public health official that's gone through this or is going through it. And many have received threats at their homes. I have a girlfriend in scientific communication. She had to move her house because they started showing up at her house. And so it's it's so there's some crazy people out there. And it's a weird time for scientists to be targeted. Yeah, it's just it's so sad to hear this because hearing your story. I've also seen interviews with a lot of nurses who are talking about compassion fatigue because they treat COVID-19 patients. And many people actually believe, depending on the area in more vaccine hesitant areas, like Little Rock Arkansas, for example, that like they're part of some conspiracy and that the nurses and doctors are lying. And it's real like it's really like it's got to be draining on public health officials on experts.  And, you know, it's it's so sad to hear that. But unfortunately, we're at the point of the pandemic where nothing really surprises me. But it still is. I'm not numb to it yet, even if I'm not necessarily surprised on another note. So I wanted to share a video with you. Give me one second here because while you're sharing it while you're sharing it, I wanted to highlight, you know, it's important to also recognize it's a very small minority of people.  But the majority of them are amazing and find it super useful and send me wine and, you know, whatever. And so that it's important to keep that perspective as well. That's true. That's true. Some folks who are the most vocal and the most like outrageous, they're always the loudest, but that is that is a good thing to keep in mind. So this is Dowd Winslow tweets this out. So this is anti mask, anti vax protesters protesting in a COVID testing clinic. So I have not watched this yet, but I just wanted to get your reaction after seeing some of this. So I mean, you pretty much you get the point. It's it's a COVID testing facility. There are people who are very anti vax as it relates to children and I understand the sensitivity for children and being concerned about their health. But with increased COVID cases, pediatric hospitals getting filled up. It's I don't know how you reach this people. So as an expert, what would you say? Like if you if you have a family member who's very conspiratorial anti vaccine anti mask, what do you think is the best approach in your experience? Yeah, it's a great question. I think first people need to recognize that we're not going to build boards in the ivory towers aren't going to change these people's minds. It's going to be family and friends. And so when you approach someone like that, one, you have to know the landscape, right? You have to know where they're coming from, which means you have to listen and it's really hard to do. You have to listen and you have to be a bidirectional relationship communication. Two, once you listen, you start understanding what their concerns are, then you can start combating that misinformation. You know, a lot of misinformation is budded from a kernel of truth.  So you need to find that and then start redirecting them of that's a better way of thinking of it.  And that's not an effective way to do it. And it's really, really hard to do. I'm not going to lie. I'm very guilty of the dumb work. Yeah, because, you know, to us, it's a no duh. But we have to recognize that and have to come with empathy that there are legitimate concerns out there. There's a ton of confusion out there.  But I do do you still think there's a movable middle in there somewhere that we can start approaching this. And if you they don't if you don't know the answer, say you don't know the answer. Don't, you know, BS them, but then what you need to do is then drive them or show them the way to find that answer. Because if you don't fill that void, they will fill that void with misinformation. And then, and then you can do the best you can do and you move on honestly. But I think we all have a role to play in this and having those tough conversations and swallowing your pride and trying to be patient is is really the only way we're going to change minds. Yeah, that's really important. On that same note of combating misinformation and disinformation, you did a really great write up of a doctor. I believe his name was Dr. Stock, who is spreading both miss and disinformation. And one thing that I wanted to ask you about just as individuals who who don't have expertise in this field. So I've come into contact with people online who they're, you know, share anti vaccine misinformation. And, you know, looking at some of these websites, they look very professional if you read them, the language that they used. I mean, if I don't know any better, it seems medically competent. It's very technical. How do we look out for misinformation? Because somebody who isn't necessarily prone to conspiratorial thinking after seeing it myself. I think people can easily be misled because a lot of the misinformation, it isn't just like this foaming at the mouth screaming like a lot of it sounds really legitimate. So what do we look out for? It does sound legitimate and it's, it's weaved into very technical jargon that some people are like, oh, yeah, that sounds, that sounds right. And then even more dangerously, like with Dr. Stock, it's a physician, right? We're trained to be trusting these people. There's a lot of other misinformation coming from a physician from Pfizer. He used to work at Pfizer.  They have the credentials. And so the, you know, the thing I tell everyone is stick to solid news sources. Don't go down a lot of YouTube channels. Don't go down opinion pieces and Washington Post. Stick to like five news sources, right? And yeah, they're going to be boring. It's going to be NPR, New York Times, whatever Washington Post. But, and they'll tell you when there's actually something serious going on that we need to worry about, like the myokite artists, right? Or like the blood clots after vaccines, those are very serious safety signals that they talked about. And so that's what I, I try and tell people it's very difficult to tell misinformation from true information. If you don't have the training. And that's why I think it's really important for us scientists. And that's why I put so much frickin time into these types of misinformation posts because there's nowhere else people can go. And, you know, that Dr. Stock video got watched what five million times in the first hour. I don't even know what the stats are, but it's, it, it sounds correct. And it is confusing. Yeah, you know, I try to teach media literacy to a small extent on my YouTube channel because, you know, YouTube has been a huge problem in the spread of misinformation. But as someone who's on the platform, what I try to teach people is listen, question the resources that people present to you. Question me, understand where we're getting our information from what our motivations may be. And one thing that really is difficult to overcome is this veil of legitimacy, like with Dr. Stock, people who are doctors who don't necessarily have expertise as it relates to epidemiology or COVID-19. But they know enough to do a lot of people. So it's, it's a really tricky thing to try to teach people what to look out for. And when it comes to, you know, medical jargon, it's tough because I don't know. So I get all of my information from resources such as yourself, people who I know are doing very, very hard work to try to get us the accurate information. But the problem with public health messaging, and I see this from a policy side as well, is this is all so complex and you can't distill something that complex into a really easily digestible message from the governmental level. But also, the issue is that things change so rapidly with science. So that is in and of itself somewhat worrying for people who don't know any better.  So it's so hard to keep up. So I really appreciate folks like you who put in so much time and effort to like prepare graphs and explain things to people and explain that the change is part of the process. You know, it's this is what we expect as scientists, and we try to equip ourselves with the capability of adapting, speaking of adapting. I wanted to move on to the future of COVID-19 impossible to predict at the moment. But a lot of epidemiologists that I've heard say that they believe COVID-19 will ultimately be endemic. It'll kind of be like this annual phenomenon. And on top of that, one epidemiologist, I'm blinking on his name. He says that he thinks after this latest Delta surge, that's when he thinks it's going to reach the endemic status. Talk through what that's going to look like for normal people who might not necessarily know what that means. Yeah. So I think there's a general consensus among epidemiologists that if when and if we get out of the fall and winter, we should be pretty good to go in this spring. And that's what that said, without a variant that's, you know, escaping our vaccines. But what does that look like? It'll probably look very seasonal, like the flu, right? It popping up at different time, you know, in the winter. What it'll also look like is we're going to have pockets of outbreaks. So, for example, we're going to have an outbreak at a nursing facility or a school. These outbreaks aren't going to be statewide, like they are right now. They're not going to be nationwide, but they will be pockets. And that's what it's going to look like. And we are going to be living with this thing. Hopefully we don't need a booster shot every year, maybe every couple of years, maybe just this third one and we're done. But it will be part of our lives. We've only eradicated one of their disease in our lifetime or in the human race and that's smallpox. And so this is going to be with us. We just need to figure out how to live with it and not have 650,000 people die in one year. And, you know, with that, we are creating treatments, too. So, you know, like we have Tama Flu for the flu. They're working on a lot of treatments for like COVID viral treatments. And so this will get better. It's just we're in the weeds. We're in the thick of it right now. And it's hard to imagine life just with living with coronavirus. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing. It's, you know, it seemed like for a while in spring, once vaccinations became available, when I got vaccinated, it kind of felt like the light was right there at the end of the tunnel. And then Delta variant, you know, came along and then it's like, OK, how long are we going to be living with this? And I think the way that you described that makes sense. It's just a matter of like how intrusive it is in our lives.  You know, we were not going to eradicate it in my lifetime, in your lifetime, possibly. But it's not going to be a thing that's constantly on our minds. It's not going to be as big of a threat. I keep that, you know, at the back of my mind, because, you know, it's really frustrating. I felt like I've been one of those people who tried to flatten the curve. I didn't go anywhere. It helps that, you know, I'm relatively agoraphobic as it is. But, you know, it'd be nice to not have this like fear in the back of your mind, not necessarily for myself because I'm vaccinated, but for my nieces and nephews who, you know, are under the age of 12. And I think, wow, this is something that I want to get rid of so they can have a normal future. So one last thing I wanted to ask you. Now, this is a seemingly really straightforward question, but I've heard so many different explanations. And so for viewers, when they hear, you know, this vaccine is 95% effective or efficacy is decreased to 85%. What exactly does that mean? Like, does this mean that if I encounter someone with COVID-19, I have an 85% statistical likelihood of not getting it? What does that actually mean in practice? Because we hear this all the time and I think that mainstream media isn't doing a great job at informing people about what these numbers are. Yeah, efficacy is not that. It's not like how effective is the vaccine if you come in contact with someone and you're right. Everyone's getting this wrong. What efficacy is is risk reduction. And so if there's 100 people that got COVID, right, if the vaccine is 90% efficacious, 90 of those people could have been prevented. And so it's a risk reduction. And what we currently, we constantly figure out trying to find is that the vaccines continue to reduce our risk of COVID compared to the unvaccinated. When the vaccinated or if the risk of COVID among vaccinated equals the same as the risk among the unvaccinated, that just means the vaccines aren't working anymore and it's not efficacious at all. So we just need to make sure that really the efficacy is about over 50%. Once it starts getting under 50%, like we've started seeing in Israel, we start getting nervous and that's what's really informed the booster. Right. I don't know if that helps at all. Probably not. No, it's complicated, but it's nice to just have you here to set the record straight because I've heard a lot. And people, I think that we were a society where we read headlines and we don't necessarily look at the articles. So the headline is going to be usually sensationalist to grab the most eyeballs. And that's not great at informing people if we don't actually dig a little bit deeper. So just to have you clarify, that is very helpful. So I appreciate that. So before we go, can you please tell everyone what you do where we can find you and how we can support your great work? Yeah, of course. So I write a blog called Your Local Epidemiologist. I do it. I have a day job as an epidemiologist. I have little kids, so I actually do it at night. And I also have a face. So the blog is on Substack and you can subscribe to it for free. Science should always be free, but you can also donate. And then I also have a Facebook page where I literally just copy and paste my Substack to the Facebook page because there's so much information on Facebook. And I'm also on Instagram, sometimes on Twitter. So yeah, you can really just Google me. You'll find me. Well, Doctor, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. This has been really illuminating. Hopefully we can touch bases in a couple of months because by then things might look completely different, hopefully for the better. But yeah, it was really great talking to you. Thank you so much, Doctor. Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.