Hey everybody, tonight we're debating whether or not the Titanic actually sunk and we are starting right now. With Rose's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, Rose, the floor is all yours. Hello everybody, my name is Rose Chippell-Seven and I am here today to debate with Alex Sein about the Titanic hoax. I remember when the Titanic movie came out in 1997 and I saw it 13 times between the winter of the 7th and 8th grade and boy did I have no idea what I would learn as I got older, that we just can't trust anything that we see. All the mainstream narratives are totally incorrect and it makes perfect sense that this would be an insurance scam. Those two boats were totally switched. You can see that there's more portholes than there should be on one of them. Take it away, Alex. Let's demolish the topic and auto-hoax this. I really appreciate that very spirited introduction, Rose.  That's right. What happened in the events in 1911 was the Olympic, which is the actually sister ship of Titanic was hit was in a accident with the Royal British Navy and the White Star Line was found guilty for that accident. And so the Olympic had to be repaired. Guess what? As the time as the Olympic was being repaired, its sister ship with the same exact plans built literally the same exact plans. The only difference being two portholes and they say a Turkish spa, that was different. I said there was only two very small differences. And I think that there actually is, excuse me, there's another difference is different layouts of the VIP suites. Follow me. Just follow me. The Olympic, this is the original ship was in an accident with the Royal British Navy and when it needed to be fixed, it actually took over the place of Titanic as Titanic was being built and they had to use Titanic's propeller, which has Titanic's four hundred point one marking on it. They had to put that on the Olympic, right? So there's parts on the Olympic from Titanic. Now, follow me. They had to put all this steel to fix the Olympic and the Olympic still listed to the port side, a small, I think it was like a point, the degree, I don't know the exact degree, but it listed small, very slightly. So they knew the White Star Line knew their goose was cooked. They couldn't freaking use this boat. It was listing already. They knew their goose was cooked. So what did they do? They planned an insurance scam. They were going to they were going to sink the Olympic under the badge of Titanic and then they were going to continue to sail Titanic under the badge of Olympic, which Olympic after the accident of Titanic went on to sail for 23 years. But follow me. You're like, Alex, this is impossible. Well, it's not because people like J.P. Morgan and there's other people like there's a long list of people. There's a long list of celebrities. I could pull them up real quick. But J.P. Morgan, being the most influential person on there, was said to have had knowledge of the scam before. And that's why he changed his reservation and did not go on it. And actually there's multiple people said that they were sick and they were seen later saying that they were totally fine. There's multiple reasons why very successful, prominent people that were that were not on the Titanic, supposedly an unsinkable ship. And then it goes out and it sinks on its first voyage, which that the changes of that alone makes it absolutely impossible. But then you add the fact that the White Star Line was going to go bankrupt. The Olympic was in an accident. That's a fact that the White Star Line was going to go bankrupt was in an accident and damage the ship so bad that it was totaled, they had no other options. It was do this or go out of business. Now, when you look at the ships that are supposed to save the passengers, you have the SS California. That was a ship that was full of life vest and full of boats, but it never made it to Titanic. Why they say because of a communication error. That doesn't mean that when they do these insurance scams, accidents happen. This amount of people were not supposed to die. But unfortunately, because they did the scam wrong, there was what they call as collateral damage. And a lot of people don't realize there's a lot of insurance scams that happen in the world and people don't like to realize that. That's not something that people know about, but that's a harsh reality in the world. You can look and do a guy like Larry Silverstein who benefited $7.6 billion from the collapse of the World Trade Center. But that's not what this debate is about. This debate is about Titanic. And let me tell you something. When you look at it, it stinks from high heaven. There is no way this ship with the people that were supposed to go on it sinks on its first maiden voyage. And on top of that, I'm not allowed to show the footage because of copyright reasons. But James Cameron went down and shot footage of the ship and the ship did not have a T. They were able to find an M and a P. You guys can look it up. There's a documentary about this. This guy's laughing, but they saw an M and a P. I'm telling you, Titanic did not sink. It actually became the Olympic and sailed for 23 years after the alleged sinking of Titanic. And there's so much proof because another thing is there's another theory about Titanic. People didn't realize in one of the rooms that there is a fire smoldering, that they let smolder because that was the back door insurance scam. They knew that they could cause if they let it smolder long enough that the steel would warp and that the boat would sink on its own anyway. So they had two plans. They had multiple plans to sink the ship. And then when you talk about the Olympic actually had parts from the Titanic, now we have this Frankenstein ship. Okay. So now we have this mixed DNA ship. So what it does is you can say that's not the Titanic yet. Even the official story is that the Titanic was parts of the Titanic or on the Olympic that sailed for 23 years after. So the entire Titanic did not sink. They don't want to tell you this.  It wasn't Jack and Rose, you know, on a boat, taking nudes of each other, sketching nudes, and at 69ing in an old car. They don't realize that people. That's what they think when they think of Titanic. When they realize that it was an insurance scam and people like JP Morgan was supposed to be on that thing. And guess what? He it was a coincidence that he wasn't on it. Just like it was a coincidence that Larry Silverstein who's at the windows of the world restaurant every single day wasn't there on 9 11. These people that happened to just coincidences. They happened to not be victims of their own accidents that killed their pride and joy.  All you got to do is look at the boats. They're identical boats are very different. The same architectural plan and literally the same blueprints. So parts are from both. It doesn't matter what they say. The Titanic didn't sink the Titanic. Titanic, even their official story, is that it parts of it survived on the Olympic in sail for 23 years, which is not true. That was the actual Titanic and the Olympic sunk that dreary night and the captain and the freaking band.  They were singing and hooting and hollering on the Olympic dog because they weren't on the Titanic and that's just the truth. And a lot of people don't want to hear it. But that's not my problem because you know what? This is not for the baby back bitches in the audience. This is not for your grandma. This is the real truth and sometimes the truth hurts. So listen, when you go to that Titanic Museum, you're looking at the Olympic.  You need to figure some stuff out. And I'll put a link on my channel on a documentary that'll give you evidence to everything that I said here. And then some because in this, of course, opening, I can only say so much. I'm not a computer. I can't memorize the entire thing. I'm primetime 99 Alexine. Am I genius? Somewhat. Yeah, I mean, smarter than these two dopes, of course. But what I'm saying is it's not about that. Tonight is about Titanic and the insurance scam that was. Thank you. That's my time. Thank you very much for that, Alex. And folks want to let you know of it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate. We are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from. And don't forget a couple of huge things for tonight, in particular this coming Tuesday. As you can see right over here on this side of the screen, we are thrilled. 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Yeah, I wasn't sure which various conspiracy theories and there are a lot of help, a lot of them about the Titanic. One is the insurance scam model which Rose and Alex have gone with. We'll get to that in a moment. The other one is a little bit more wacky even that JP Morgan, for example, had a vendetta against some of the people on the ship over the Federal Reserve system and connections with Jewish bankers and there's a whole bunch of wackalunary popping along on that. But instead, we're getting Robin Gardner's conspiracy theory that he came up with in the 1990s and pushed all the way down to his death when he died in 2017. And that is what exactly what Alex has repeated. Word for word, the identical ships were flipped over after the hawk had the collision with the Olympic in 1911. The Olympic was brought into the dry dock and it was flopped over for the Titanic and they sank it for insurance purposes. Holy smokes, this can't possibly be true. One, the ships weren't identical. Two, the ships, when they were brought together in 1911, when the Olympic was brought in for its repairs, the Titanic wasn't even finished. It only had one funnel. When exactly was all of this switch over going? Gardner was never able to account for all of that. Three, the insurance money wouldn't work. The ships cost seven and a half million dollars and they were only insured for five million dollars. The company would have in fact not made money off of the deal. It would have been a catastrophe, as it was, for not just the White Star Line, but for the parent company, International Mercantile Marine, which J.P. Morgan had founded, along with U.S. Steel and a bunch of others, it functionally ruined International Mercantile Marine, which had bought up almost every line on the Atlantic Ocean except for Kunard that couldn't be bought up. And the White Star's disaster with the Titanic screwed all of that up. So the idea that any canny businessman, one of the great ruthless financiers of the 20th century, couldn't figure out the numbers on this, his absolute nonsense. About the ships being identical, no they weren't. A and B deck were radically different on Titanic and Olympic. Olympic had a single long promenade deck on A deck without any enclosures. Titanic had a completely enclosed upper section and an open section aft. B deck had completely been refigured where they had expanded all of these first-class passenger capacity out to the deck, eliminating an entire promenade deck. They expanded the restaurant, they put in the Parisian restaurant. That whole deck is different. There were people who served aboard both Olympic and Titanic and for that matter even Britannic, which was identical to the Titanic. And you've got people who had sailed on both ships. The interior appointments were different. The interiors of the smoking compartments, the smoking rooms were decorated differently. We know exactly what Olympic stuff looked like because when the ship was decommissioned in 1930, it was broken up for scrap. And all of the wood paneling on it is labeled 400, not 401. It was Olympic's material. The idea that you could have somehow flipped these ships over, I was trying to find an example of where you could see the two ships side by side. There are not really too many pictures of that. The thing on the top is a postcard from 1912 that actually is labeled Titanic, but it's not. It's the Olympic. And the ship on the bottom is an actual photograph of the Titanic as it was sailing. They look very similar, but anybody can go online to be able to check out the little details on it. They're not in fact identical. That you can see how different the A and B decks are and especially a deck. Absolutely nobody familiar with the Titanic cannot spot Olympic versus Titanic instantly by sight just to see that A deck. Because A deck alone has that characteristic little white spot where that white section of hull has been modified where they enclose the promenade deck up there on A deck. There were other matters in terms of interior construction and all that. Not all the equipment, by the way, had even been installed on Titanic. There was one of the passengers that griped about the fact that they hadn't even put some of the faucets in yet. How could that have been if they had put a ship that had already been functioning? Now, we'll want to discuss what was going on inside of Alex's head. And for that matter rose as to whether or not when they would look at videos or check up on any of this stuff. They did any background research at all, whether any of them could tell anything at all apart from relying on the 1997 movie. That's kind of recent. I've seen the German Titanic conspiracy movie from 1944 that the Nazis made. I've seen the 1951 film that had the Oscar-winning script that was largely fictionalized. Then the classic 1958 and I to remember that was based on Walter Lord's book. There's movies all up and down the yin yang. Even Cameron has had to make some adjustments in his view of the Titanic because of material that was discovered since then that has been a wonderful historical value. But I can guarantee you that absolutely nothing of historical value, nothing that has been accepted by any marine person, naval architect person, people who are familiar with the white star line, with naval architecture, with ship disasters, any of the various writers and experts in the field going back decades, absolutely no one has bought into Gardner's theory except for people online. And I've seen websites that repeat the Gardner claims just as Alex did who say the ships are identical. No, they're not. And that fact will not change. It looks like I probably used about half of that 12-minute time. Let's pump it all over to Atheo. Take it, kid. Yeah. So it's going to be hard to follow up with that. So I've only really heard of briefly this idea that the Olympic and the Titanic switched. I haven't really researched it despite having been obsessed with the Titanic and its crash since I was probably five or six years old. Simply because I never really took it seriously, mainly for the reasons that R.J. has already said that the ship wasn't identical and one of the most... The thing that is most prominent on the ships that shows that as he mentioned is, I believe it's the A-deck, the Promenadeck, where part of it on the Titanic, you'll see is actually covered in there's windows and I believe on the Olympic originally there weren't. And that was a design that was changed because the Olympic was sailing prior to the Titanic which means that as the Titanic was being constructed, they did make some changes to it given that they already had what was essentially in some ways but not every way is an identical ship to the Titanic. They figured, well, if this one's already sailing and we can see any potential flaws when we're just going to change the Titanic. So no, they're not identical. I think that honestly R.J. did enough to outline the reasons why we know they're not identical. I don't need to go into that. The only thing I need to say is really... I heard something about bankruptcy. I know that the Royal Bank of... It's not the Royal Bank of Scotland. I can't remember what it is. But that went bankrupt in 1867, I think it was. And that is when White Star Line was forced to merge with the Cunard Line. So this would have been 45 years prior to when the Titanic even sailed. So I don't think... No, no, I think you may have got a date backwards on that. White Star was merged with Cunard during the Depression in the 1930s. That's a historical detail on that. And it was because the new hull 633, I think it was called, which eventually became the Queen Mary. The government wouldn't underwrite this with two ocean liner companies. They already had their fingers into Cunard. White Star just became an appendage. So to this day it's known as Cunard White Star Line. I can jump in maybe to give some history about the relationship and why there was a White Star Line to begin with. And largely it was beefed up back in the 19th century as a production arm for the Harlan and Wolf shipping company. There was an arms race in ocean liners during this period in the late 1870s, 80s and 90s all the way into the 20th century. And it kicked into high gear with the development of turbine engines, huge amount of immigrant traffic. And ships went very quickly from ships that were 700 feet long in 1900 to 750 and 800 and 850 and 900 and 950 in the space of about a decade. So little eddy-bitty liners that were once giants like Martinia and Lusitania were now being outclassed by Olympic and Titanic. And I can tell you that Titanic was temporarily the biggest ship in the world because they'd added on tonnage with all those millionaire suites and the extra first class departments. It would have been the biggest ship on the Atlantic for one year and one month had it not sunk because the Balan liners, Bismarck, Butterland, Imperator were coming on steam, 900 plus foot long ships pushing 60,000 tons. They were dwarfing these new liners and that process continued after World War I. So I'm sorry for my interrupting there but the history of the ocean liners has been an interest of mine since long before any of you on this panel who were born. Yeah, that's fine. I didn't know exactly when the merger had happened but it wasn't necessarily that White Star line themselves went bankrupt so much as it was that the bank that had made the investments failed went bankrupt themselves and thus White Star line was left hanging. But again, that event happened 45 years prior to when the Titanic failed. White Star had had one of the few major ship disasters of the 19th century, the New York in the 1870s that was a terrible mishap at sea up off the grand banks. And other than that, everybody had gotten incredibly complacent. There had not been a major ship disaster since that time when ships were way smaller. So everybody got gold into a sense of complacency as they would now had big ships with steel and propellers with turbine engines and wireless telegraphs and it's impossible for any of these things to go. And if you know about the history of why the Titanic was considered practically unsinkable, in their frame it was understandable why they had made such a disastrous mistake. But nobody but an income poop.  Are they going to tell Captain Smith, please sail the ship off, even if it were the Olympic, please sail the ship into the first iceberg you meet and kill as many people as possible. Is this a plausible scenario? No. I haven't answered that. You go down with the ship. Well, can I answer you? One second. Wait, well, I'll answer you. Stop in there. Well, we do it in case Leo had anything. I promise we'll come right back to you. I know you're excited, Alex. And I appreciate your gusto, Leo. You got a minute and 22 seconds to go out and add anything. I was just going to go over just general reasons that we know the Titanic sunk. But honestly, I don't think we need to. I don't think it's that part that there was a ship that struck an iceberg and sunk. I think the debate seems to be over which particular ship it was. So I don't think I need to add anything more. You got it. Well, thank you very much. And we're going to kick it over to Alex and Rose, indeed. But want to let you know, not only are Alex and Rose linked in the description, but also RJ and Leo are linked in the description. And that includes if you're listening via podcast, as all of our debates end up on our podcast the morning after. And by the way, my dear friends, if you haven't clicked already, you've heard all of them, you can click right now to hit that subscribe button to hear more from our guests as we really do appreciate them. And with that, we'll kick it into open discussion. Alex, what's on your mind? Well, I just want to start off by, I know that you guys think because this guy is, like, you know, saying he knows all this stuff about boats and he has all the stuff corrects. But I want to do a share screen. I want to show the difference of the boats. But one thing I do want to start off by saying is, what's really ingenious is that he says that every single boat expert can tell the difference when it is actually a fact. Anybody that's done any research of Titanic because there's so little footage of Titanic in most documentaries, they actually use footage of the Olympic in the documentary and call it Titanic. That's a fact. They're actually used tons of photos of Olympic. And I think you have a book that's actually mislabeled, if that's correct. Yeah, you just said you had a picture that was mislabeled, right? Didn't you just say you had a book that it was mislabeled? I had no. I have a postcard all virtually. Was it mislabeled? I'm just saying was it mislabeled? They had no pictures of the Titanic virtually all the advertising that was put out was of the Olympic. The problem is we do in fact have photographs of the actual Titanic. Very few. Virtual film footage. Let me show you the photographs. Let me show you the photos. Let me show you the photos. These are the best photos that you have. This is the best photo. And this is what they say. They say, like you're talking about, you guys can see this right here. I believe that that's the problem. This is the spot. Yes, I know. You're saying that this is the difference. Because of this, this proves that they're totally different ships when that's absolutely absurd when there's parts from both. And first of all, this picture could be edited by anybody. So this is your only proof. This is just lacking. And how do you know all the evidence that it was Olympic wasn't edited? Please. What I'm saying is you don't have enough evidence. You don't have enough evidence to say you know the difference that anybody that's looked into it for five seconds could just tell with their eye the difference. That's ingenuine, because most of the times, a lot of pictures were actually the Olympic and it was labeled the Titanic. So for a lot of experts, they can't tell the difference. And you're saying this major difference, this, first of all, is saying could have been done when the ships were put in hull or whatever it's called, when they were put in dry dock. That's a fact that they were put in dry dock. You're saying that their parts weren't the same. Will you not admit that there was parts on the Olympic that were originally supposed to be from Titanic, like the propeller? No, I will not. And Gardner never offered any documentation for it. That's a fact. No, it is not. That's a fact. Let me find it. Okay, well, let me find the photo. Let me stop showing off. Find it. The photo. How do you know that's a fact? Because they had it. Because they had to change the propeller multiple times. Because who says they did that? Because it's just like who says so. You said in your books, there's multiple people. Who claims it was Gardner in his book and there's multiple people. All right, folks, hold on a second. Listen, we do have to let each person. Hold on, Alex, I'm still talking. We have to let each person have their time to respond. So if you ask them a question and they give like three words that kind of answers it, but they're still trying to say a few more sentences, we got to give them those few more sentences that goes for both sides. Alex, what have you got? No, I'm saying Gardner says it. Multiple people say that they had to use parts from the Titanic on the Olympic in repairing the Olympic. That's a fact. That's a known theory. And so you're saying that that's not true. What other person, other than Gardner is saying that? RJ, we do have to let a person say that. Mark Chernsdale, there's multiple people that have said it. There's multiple people that have said it. Look at Mark Chernside. There's a bunch of people have said it. I mean, listen, that's a fact. Like, go ahead. So what exactly do you mean that they were taking parts that were already installed on Titanic and then taking them back off and putting them on Olympic? Parts meant for Titanic. We're using the repair of the Olympic because it got an accident. So these were parts that were manufactured for Titanic but hadn't been installed and were put on Olympic is what you're saying. Yes, that is correct. So how do you know that they were for Titanic? Because Titanic, each part has a number. So there's numbers to have either 400 or 401. And so they have these, they went down in the sinking. You can pull all this up.  That's incorrect. When there's stuff at the bottom with the 401 marking that proves that it's the Olympic. That's interesting because I'm pretty sure there's only like, I don't know if all three propellers that the Titanic are showing. I think they are, but it's only like the top third that are showing. And I don't know if you would be really be able to identify any serial numbers down there. Perhaps there are ways that they could, but I don't know if they'd be able to do that unless they actually recovered the propellers because I mean, you're in, you know, almost what 14,000 feet of water or something like that. So I would definitely be skeptical of that. I would need to see some like some serious literature done by oceanic professionals or those that have actually been down to the Titanic in order to consider granting an emeritus statement you just made. Well, here, here, I have an article. Hey, here, I'll show the article. Let me just share screen already. Where do you claim that Tronside agreed with Gardner on the propeller? No, I'm just saying, this is what it says by Milena Esposita, April 15, 1912. You may think you know the story, but do you really, I'm here to present you the greatest conspiracy theory on the greatest ship ever built, the Titanic. I'm here to present you the greatest one. Yeah, I saw that, but that's the one that repeats. Gardner. Like, yes, I know. I'm just saying, so this is another person who backs it up. I mean, have you read Tronside's paper on it? Yes, but what you're saying is, I'm saying this is the damage. This is the damage. This is the damage that the Olympic face. That's not what I asked you. What are you talking about? Yeah, that's starting now. Have you read Tronside's paper on a Gardner theory? Yeah, Tronside tries to debunk it, but Tronside admits that there's parts used from Olympic on Titanic. But that's what I said. Not the relevant one that he talks about does it? He says there's parts from the, I know, but he says there's parts from the, that were meant to go on Titanic on Olympic. That's why I was using Tronside. That's why I was citing Tronside. And there you go. I'm right about that. So quit trying to use it small stuff. Do you have a page number on where he says that? No, I don't have a page number.  You need a page number. Dude, it's a fact. Like you're trying to, this is a debate in front of people. No, I'm fine. It's just annoying. You're trying to cite page numbers. Why are you doing that? I'm just annoyed because I'm showing you the fact. And you're too deaf to know this. But because, because it's going off the rails here, I have to redirect. One is though it is true, RJ is very experienced. He does not want to exploit your youth and inexperience, Alex. So let's leave age out of this. Ronald Reagan. And second of all, we want to go back to the kind of main course here in terms of the topic. So if we can just re-center this, let's have a kind of a quick rebuttal and without any sort of interruptions, we'll give you a chance to respond, RJ. Yeah, the fact of the matter is the insurance argument can't work because the ship was not insured for enough. They were, they would lose money if they lost a ship, not otherwise. And Gardner's argument has never persuaded anybody that it persuades Alex and a website or two. Definitely, we know that, but Alex thinks the earth is flat. Alex doesn't think there were dinosaurs. Alex thinks all sorts of strange things. Could you, could you help me understand that? Yeah, so are you attacking me?  I know, I know, I know. But you're attacking me. I'm just saying, look at you, RJ. Rose, ask your question. In all fairness, RJ, we have to refrain in both ways. Good, if you want to go toe-to-toe with me, grandpa, we can go, we can go, man.  James, can I ask? So what we're going to do is we have not have a live alert button. I hope you don't have any issues. Oh my God, dude, do you stop talking? But let's hear from Rose and Leo as we haven't heard much from you. We're glad you're here. Floor is all yours. Rose, we'll start with you. Well, first of all, I didn't get a chance to compliment you on your opening remarks, which clearly show that you've looked into this and that you're very passionate about the subject and boats. And I obviously have not researched this as much as you. So I'm here for the opportunity to learn as well. And you mentioned about the insurance scam, and I just wanted to know if you could break down the numbers for me so I can help me understand why the insurance scam would not have been profitable. How much do you think the damage would have cost and how much was it insured for? One thing about the insurance scam is that the Olympic was, they had a total in anyway, so it was mitigating losses. So even though they necessarily wouldn't have made money from it, they would have made, they would have lost less money by doing it. Does that make sense? So they can still show that they would have lost money, but they would have lost less money with the insurance money. Because the boat was totaled anyway. So that's, he's going to tell you, oh, they wouldn't have made money because they had to pay the passenger's lives insurance. But that doesn't matter because they're still mitigating. They still got an insurance check. So they, instead of paying the full amount, because they wouldn't have been able to sale the Olympic. How much was it insured for, Alex? It doesn't, it doesn't matter. It's, you can say the numbers, it doesn't matter. That's why it's mitigating losses. So you can say that it wasn't profitable. It was, you can say, you can speak over each other. So this is important that we calm down. And this way we can hear each of you as we give each person a chance to respond. So I'm okay with, if you want to ask a question, RJ, fair enough, but then we do have to give Alex a chance to respond. Sinking a seven and a half million dollar ship. I'm still talking, RJ, for crying out loud. So we do have to give Alex a chance to respond once you do ask him the question. Go ahead, RJ. Yeah. Sinking a seven and a half million dollar ship to get a five million dollar check on top of which all of the lawsuits and the loss of reputation, which we know objectively, the white star line suffered. It was a public relations cataclysm to do this. Plus, how exactly was the scam conducted? Who do you think arranged to bump into the iceberg specifically on board the Titanic? Name some names. Well, I said that, I said that there's actually two ways they're going to sink it. So the captain of the Titanic was the original captain of the Olympics. So he could have been in on it because he felt so guilty for actually getting in an accident with the Royal British Navy. So I believe that the captain was in on it because he felt bad. And then on top of that, they had two ways they're going to sink it. You know that there was a fire in one of the furnaces on Titanic that that was, you know, smoldering that they didn't put out that they left going. So that like I said in my opening statement, they were going to leave that smoldering. Eventually the the steel was going to warp and the boat was going to sink. Anyway, so they had a backup plan for their insurance scam. That's true. So how did he actually arrange them to hit the iceberg? You have you have communicated. This is how this is how they arranged it. I'll let me finish my question. JP Morgan sends a memo to in secret to Captain Smith and says, please slam into an iceberg and sink the ship. Do you think he was giving any warnings as to how to save as many people or other to make sure that you were like in a handy spot so that a ship could rescue you or something like that? And when exactly did Captain Smith go to bed compared to when the ship hit the iceberg? Okay. First of all, you're trying to answer questions that nobody knows. I mean, you're trying to ask you're asking these like my new questions you're telling me. But first of all, Captain Smith is the one that wrecked the Olympics. So he felt guilty. He felt obligated to be part of it. And I don't believe that the chain of command was JP Morgan. How do you know that? How do I know that he felt guilty about wrecking a ship? I don't know that. Well, because I don't know. I've I've gotten a car accident. I felt guilty. I've been an extent to the wreck. Well, he was the ship. He was the ship captain when the Olympic crash. Are you saying? And they found him. Listen, Captain, listen. Captain, is it possible for you to give him a chance to respond? And then we'll just say the captain. The captain of the Captain Smith was the captain of the Olympic that ran into the Royal British Navy. And the Royal British Navy found that Captain Smith was at fault. That's a fact. That's a fact. Yeah. I mean, can you dispute that? Is that a fact? You do know that there are masses of official testimony from all of the surviving officers on board the Titanic. Do you not? Yes. But the main guy that have you read any of them? Yeah, I've read some of them. And it doesn't matter because I'm you're asking me who did it. I'm telling you Captain Smith, the guy that was guilty for a wrecking. What time? What time did Captain Smith go to bed that night? I have no idea what time Captain Smith was going to bed. It doesn't matter before they enter the ice field. So then that answers my question perfectly. That answers my question. I know exactly how they because that's why they overloaded the engines on purpose. That's why before he went to bed. Yes, they over they did. That's that is a fact. They overloaded the engine so they wouldn't be able to stop. How do you how do you overload the engines on a steam ship? Whatever. I don't know the machinations of how a steam engine works. Well, then how can you but I know that they overloaded the engine so that it doesn't even know how. This is fact. He knows. Just watch. Watch. RJ is going to tell you the engines. Ask him a question. Alex, calm down. So but we do have to give people a chance to respond. More than just three words. This is an impulse control type of thing that everybody, Alex, Leo, RJ, especially Rose. Everybody has to use. OK, so we're going to with that. We can restart it. However, we haven't heard from Rose for a while. Rose, do you have any thoughts on what's been said? I don't really have any thoughts on what's been said so far. I don't want to change the topic too quickly if they're not done discussing that part of it because I wanted to ask about the MP that was found on the side of the wreckage. And then I also wanted to ask about I know that you guys are saying that they are different. And so how can you prove that it was actually which one actually sank is that that the underground footage of it, you can clearly see that the a deck is there and not the other one. How can if we could agree that they are different, how do we know which one actually sunk based on the footage underground? What I saw was there was like an engraving of an M and P which there's no P or M in Titanic. So if you could respond to that and enlighten me about that. Yeah. So when they went down to the Titanic, unfortunately, where the lettering would have been on the ship would not have been legible, even with the world's greatest technology in 1985 when it was initially discovered. Secondly, on the bow section, you can actually see the promenade deck and you can see how it is covered where the Olympic, I believe even at that time was still not. So how could it have been the ship that didn't have it covered if this ship has that part covered? No, it's more than that. The shape of the bridge is different. The Olympics Bridge was crewed and Titanic's is straight. They have actual photographs of that aspect of it. There's just oodles and oodles of stuff. Plus, many, you'd have to... There's not oodles and oodles, Alex. I'll let them respond. I'll ask another question about that engine bit. Who exactly in the chain of command, how did it come to be that the Titanic's boilers were being revved up and the ship was traveling faster? Who was doing that and why? Captain Smith did that because he was guilty for the Olympic crash. Can I respond to that quickly? Can I respond to that quickly? That's my answer. The crash of the Olympic actually had nothing to do with the captain of the Olympic because it didn't have anything to do with the Olympic other than the Olympics propellers. Because these at the time were such massive ships, they needed such massive propellers that could move massive amounts of water. One of the eight tugboats that was helping the ship navigate got caught in that draft and collided with the Olympic. So, in fact, it had absolutely nothing to do with the navigation. They found him. Excuse me. Hold on. They found him. I haven't finished, sir. It's very rude to over-talk. Yes. Well, their first RJ started to over-talk. You then, Alex, did. You guys, impulse control here, okay?  So, this accident that happened had nothing to do with any of the navigation involving the Olympic. It had to do, it was literally a no-blame incident. It was a tugboat got caught in the draft of the propellers of the Olympic and struck the ship. It accidents happen. And as far as I know, Captain Edward John Smith didn't have any marks on his record when he was named Captain of the Titanic. So, if somebody found him guilty of this, it certainly wasn't an event that was worthy of marking his record. Yeah, and the person responsible for goosing up the ship speed was Jay Bruce Ismay, the chairman. Well, can I answer his question? Can I answer his question? Let's give RJ just a bit to respond. No, no, no. Let Alex go on. Let Alex jump in. No, well, he's saying that it was a fact. They went to court and they were found financially liable. This is all a fact. Leo Philius, whatever name is. This is a fact. You're saying they found the white star line liable for the accident. I'm just saying they were found liable. The company being found liable is not anywhere even remotely close to the individual. If you're the CEO of this company, you're the CEO of each other again. So, okay, go answer. What do you not understand about this, you guys? Hey, I don't understand my dynamic point. What do you not understand about it? Is that he doesn't think that the captain is responsible for the accident. I'm saying when you're the top of the company, when you're the captain of the boat, even if somebody is responsible that's beneath you, you are technically responsible as the top dog. That's how it works. He doesn't understand that. That's a very simple concept. And the fact that he can't understand that blows my mind. Now, we're going to go over to Leo now and give him a chance to respond. So, to finish the point that I was initially making, the company being held liable has nothing to do about any of its employees. So, it seems that what you're saying, I don't even know if it's true, but let's grant that it is. You're telling me that the company that owned the ship was held liable. That is not the same thing as saying that the captain who is in charge of the ship is liable. So, I have no idea what your argument even is at this point. So, you're telling me if a captain of American Airlines crashes a plane, so you're telling me the plane pilot is not liable? They don't sue the pilot's family, they sue the airline, dude. What are you talking about? He's a representative of the company, and that's why. I don't understand how that's a very simple concept you can't understand. Can I ask you a question? He's an employee of the company that was found liable, dude. That's very simple. Yeah, go ahead. So, if say this captain of American Airlines is flying his plane and doing everything the way he's supposed to, and another plane did something wrong and struck his plane, took half the wing off, and his plane crashes. Is the pilot at fault for that event? Well, in this event, the pilot was found liable, so it would have been the other way. It would have been he ran into a... That's not the hypothetical I presented you. Yeah, I know, but that's not the hypothetical that happened, the hypotheticals that he did. No, you can't answer anyway. No, because that's not the hypothetical that happened. You're talking about a unit comparing a wrong hypothetical. This hypothetical, he was the pilot of the airplane and he did crash into the Royal British Navy. And yes, that's what happened here on the Titanic, is that he was the captain and they had the accident and they were found liable. So that would be like the pilot of the plane, he flying it, and he ran into an American jetliner, or whatever, a US military plane, and American Airlines being sound liable. That's the comparison, Dutcher. Your comparison is not the hypothetical. You're bringing out of the oranges. I don't even know where we're at because... Alex, after R.J. says he wants to say, I want to jump in. Yeah, the thing I was making about Leo is he was bringing up exactly the problem that occurred when the Titanic left on its final voyage. There was a near collision with the New York, one of the other white starliners that was off commission because they'd taken all the coal out of it because of the coal strike. That's another little side issue of interest. And Cameron, who knew all about this, didn't put that in his famous movie because he wanted a grandiose departure scene from Southampton. But in fact, they came with a Nats eyelash. They had to alert the captain that the suction of the ship was pulling the New York out of its moorings and was going to collide with it. This was one of the difficulties with these extremely large vessels that all the captains of the period, the ships were getting so big, so fast, especially older captains of the Olympic era who had no experience running these monster liners. Everything about them was a new technology. So in much the same way that there was air disasters with the common airliner in the 1960s and we have problems with the Concorde and so forth and so on, things have difficulties without there being a conspiracy involved. Gardner's argument rests upon a series of circumstantial claims that he failed to document properly. I know for a fact he misrepresents direct material. But the millionaire suites, for example, which he had to claim were put on fake on board the Olympic and then weren't on the Titanic or removed from the Titanic were some complicated measure there. He doesn't really want to go into that. He insists that those two suites were occupied by company employees and that's just false. We know who was in one of them, a New York couple who had bought a passage. By the way, it was $4,000 for the millionaire suite. That's about $100,000 in modern day money. That's pricey. The other one was empty. Ismay didn't even settle in the thing. He was still stuck in his regular first class suite. He wasn't a very busy person in that respect. He was busy looking at the ship things and he was the one who insisted on getting the boilers up. Why? Because the two people he needed to impress for paying for these monstrously expensive liners that had taken, they had to dredge harbors in New York to accommodate all of this. International Mercantile Marine that was J.P. Morgan's company had shelled out a gigantic fortune for this. Harlan and Wolf had shelled out a gigantic fortune to build these new piers to be able to build these new ships.   This would be like Jeff Bezos deciding to blow up his rocket ship while he's on it. This is dumb. The ship was already damaged because it got in an accident with the Royal British Navy and it was mooring to the right. So guard your claims and it isn't true. So they couldn't do it off to give them a chance to respond. That's a fact that it got in an accident. So you're telling me, you think about it. Yes, it got in an accident. So have you ever heard of a car? Listen, I'm just saying. Listen to me clearly, Alex. No, but let me just tell you something. When a car gets in, hold on. Let me ask a question. Because you guys aren't giving each other a chance to respond, I'm going to give Alex a couple of minutes. But remember, Alex, when you ask a question, you're basically handing the mic to somebody else. And so when they start to answer, you've got to let them answer. So go ahead, Alex. I got it. I got it, James. I'm just saying the boat was damaged. The Olympic was damaged by Captain Smith and that boat was never going to be as good as it was new. It's like when they're cutting the car business. If a car gets wrecked bad enough, it gets a salvaged title. That boat would get a salvaged title. So you're telling me that it's not worth it financially. Yet the boat is worth nothing because the boat was listing slightly to the right. That list was only going to get worse because the boat was in a major accident that changed the entire structure of the thing. They said that they actually, if to repair it right, they would have needed to cut it in half and not just repair to the side. So they didn't choose to have this accident. They didn't choose to get in a wreck with the Olympics.  They just did this. No, they had a boat that was total. That was worth nothing. So that's why they sunk it under the Titanic's insurance policy. So they would get the money so they wouldn't lose out totally. They still are going to lose in the deal. They're still going to lose millions of dollars. But instead of losing $10 million, they're going to lose $3 million, which in business makes sense. I can tell you're not a businessman, but that is how business works. Go ahead, RJ. Yeah. We get back to a critical source methods issue with you. Okay, we get that you accept all the claims Gardner makes about how damaged the ship was. Tell us how you verified that Gardner's claims were in fact reliable and accurate. I don't need to use Gardner's research because there's multiple people that admit there was an accident and that the boat was repaired. So I can just go out their testimony. You're missing the point. If the accident... I don't need to use Gardner's. I know that the boat was damaged. Hold on. All right, let's hear it from RJ and then we'll go back to the... Let me phrase this carefully as a question. Gardner doesn't merely claim that there was an accident. No one disputes that the hawk had a collision with the Olympic. What people are disputing is Gardner's assertion that the accident was as severe, so severe that the ship was total. He makes a great deal about the list saying all of that depends entirely on one person's long ago memory about supposedly seeing the Titanic listing at one point. That was a passenger's testimony though. One passenger. Passengers on that night were really busy. Oh, that's not enough. I'm just saying you admit though there's one passenger that says that the boat was listing. So there you go. And you think you know more than that passenger that was on the boat. Just think about that.  Listen, I'm just saying. Just think how smart you are, though. You think your testimony... What you're going to do is I'm going to... You think your testimony is smart? When I'm talking, I'm trying to restore order. It doesn't mean keep going. So... Good luck, James. Let's see Al. Let's see. Rose is going to be back in just a moment. She just checked out because she had a robotic effect. So I see in chat she let me know that she's going to be back in a moment. But... Leo's head palming. What we're going to do here is happy to give you a response, Alex. But want to keep it orderly and take a chill pill. Everything's fine. We'll give you a chance to respond and then we'll come back to RJ. So go ahead, Alex. Well, I think RJ was responding to me, I think. No, no, go right ahead, Alex.  No, well, I'm just saying. You admit that you're saying your evidence is better than somebody that was on the boat. Like, that just doesn't make any sense. That shows how absurd you are, that you're going to go against the guy that was on the boat. You're saying that there's not... No, you're saying there's not enough evidence. Yet a person that rode on the boat, you have testimony from the actual person and you're trying to discredit that person's testimony and saying yours is better. That's absurd.  You have no idea. I'm saying you have no idea. You have no idea. So I'm just saying, you're saying I'm wrong. I'm using actual testimony from people that were on the boat. Alex, I've already mentioned this. Not going to talk about people's age or other peripheral issues in order to attack them. Okay, okay, that's fine. That's fine. I'm just saying it's just absurd that you're not going to actually... You're going to go against actual testimony from somebody that was on the boat and says that yours is more accurate. That is wrong. I mean, that's absurd. And the fact that you can't see that just blows my mind. Can I jump in here, James? Go ahead.  Yeah, jump in, Cleo. Well, so what... Wait, well, hold on. What were you talking about, Alex? I'm sorry. He says that Beasley's testimony trumps everybody else. Okay, yeah. Only his testimony is valuable. Nobody else matters. So you're... I'm saying his testimony is better than yours. Oh, I thought it was my turn to talk. You don't even know what you're talking about. I'm sorry, Alex. You asked me... You have a chance to respond to my sentence. He asked me a question. What was the question, Alex? I'm going to go get a Pepsi. What was the question, Alex? No, he asked me a question. What was the question, Alex, that he asked you? I don't even remember. I don't even remember. He asked me what I said. He asked me what I said. And what I'm saying is that there is testimony from somebody that was on the Olympic that said, after the accident, that the Olympic had a slight list to the port side. So it was a little tilted. And RJ says that that guy's testimony is not enough to admit that the ship was totaled and that the ship had damage. So that was somebody that actually wrote on the ship. I just don't think that he knows better than somebody that was on the ship that gave actual testimony. So now I have two questions. And this one is for Alex. And it's a very, very simple question. Which side of a ship is the port side? The right side. The right side? I guess. I don't know. Dude, I'm not a captain of a ship. Is it the front or the back? And anyway, it doesn't matter. So you're saying that the testimony of one and only one person is more convincing than the fact that there are on any documented reports of the ship having a list? He's the guy that documented the report, the person that wrote on it. Yes, he's better than somebody. The company didn't. The ship's crew didn't. Why did they not document that there was a list if there was a list? There was actually. There was actually. Hold on. There actually was people. Let him finish the sentence. Do you know how reporting works on a ship documenting that inspection? Even back then, do you know how that works? I have no idea how the documentation of a ship works, but I know that a passenger's testimony said that the boat was listing after a major accident. So that's the evidence that I need. I know that's not enough evidence for you, but companies would lie. I just don't understand. For profit businesses don't tell the truth. It's like. And people do? In Volkswagen, the guy, he has nothing to lose. He doesn't have a dog in the fight. So I believe that he is the most unbiased testimony. You're laughing at that, but I'm just saying that's an actual testimony from somebody that wrote on the boat that said the list. That's fine. The only thing I wanted to say is the right side is the starboard side. Whatever. I don't I don't go on boats that much. I mean, I'm not. It's obvious he wants to say. Yeah, I mean, I mean. Go at RJ. Yeah, yeah. Let us pick Alex's memory on this regarding the Beasley testimony. At what point in the voyage was Beasley saying that there had been a list in the ship? I have no idea. If it was early when it's leaving port, could he not have been observing the time when the ship is bending because it's being sucked towards the New York because of the suction generated in a tights frame where the docks are? I see what you're doing. You're trying to say that he could be wrong, that he didn't that he didn't. Of course. Somebody could be perfectly right. He observed something, but he didn't understand the context because there's more to it than that. I will. I'm just going to believe him more than you. That's all I'm going to say. You're saying I don't have to. You don't have to disbelieve him. You need to see the context. I'm a lot. I believe Alex. I'm claiming that he said it was possible for him to have observed the tilting of the ship when it left port because of that suction issue. Is it physically impossible for a boat to feel like it's tilting when it's leaving port? No, that's not physically impossible. What I'm saying is his testimony is that it had a slight list. So I'm going by his testimony. What could have caused that? What do you think could have caused what he interpreted as the list? Because the boat was damaged. It was in an accident with the Royal British Navy in the Hawk boat. And then it couldn't be fixed to how its original order. So that's why it had a list. That's why I've been here the whole time. Are you that? Do you not know what's going on, bud? I mean, that's been the whole thing. Jesus, do you ever stop? It's interesting because the images that you showed us, the damage seemed to be above the waterline. At least most of the damage seemed to be above the waterline. Very much so. It hit second-class compartments. And fortunately, there were no losses of life because there was nobody in them. Hold on. So you're telling me that you admit that it got in a major accident and that could have made a list? Are you guys saying that the boat could have had a list? You asked him a question. You asked him if he was saying some particular idea, and so we'll give him a chance to respond. Argie, what have you got? Alex keeps repeating this canard that somehow or other Leo and I are denying there was a collision. Nobody in this denies the collision. I've been reading about this matter. It's been a matter of public record since the time in question. It's not a matter of in dispute where poor Alex gets off the boat is that he accepts the argument that no other marine engineer has accepted that Gardner alone, single person made, cherry picking information has been criticized up the yin yang on all of that, that this is a lone wolf critic. By the way, Gardner is not here to defend himself because he died in 2017. So he's out of the picture, but he's written a variety of books on the subject. Alex simply copies that argument very slavishly repeating the points, but hasn't refused to answer my question or apparently never did conduct any investigation to see whether Gardner's claims about the severity of the hawk damage was in fact true. How can I prove the severity of the damage? Well, I would think that even a small accident on a boat that you even said that this is new technology that a lot of these captains didn't even know how to engineer that all these boats were brand new. And we're talking about 1911. We're talking about technology. We don't even have it close to the same technology that we have now. So when you have a boat that was built in, I guess what, 1909 is when it was built and then it gets in an accident in 1911, that yeah, I believe that it could have permanent damage even if it's a small accident because even a small accident can cause frame damage. But you don't want to admit that. You want to say that it got in an accident and that the Olympics too. No, listen, let me finish. Keep going. You're going to say you said that the Olympic got in a small accident and everything was fine and then it was just able to cruise for 23 years without ever having a list again. Yet a guy that wrote on it, the Titanic wrote on both, no, no, his own testimony is that the boat listed. Yet you want to say that some engineers after the Titanic wrote on the Titanic. No, better than him. No, I'm saying he wrote on, I believe he wrote on both boats, didn't he? I believe that's Titanic. Titanic and the Olympic? The guy that you're saying? Yes. Which city, which one did he write on first? He wrote on the Olympic first. Did he, and then he wrote on the Titanic? I believe. How do we know that he survived? I don't know. I don't know the Cunningham guy. I don't know his back story. You don't even know if this guy survived? I'm saying I know his testimony. I don't know this. Wait, you know his testimony. I know that his testimony, because I know his testimony is that the boat listed. I know that he survived, but I don't know everything about this guy's testimony other than he said that the boat was listing and that he, that he knew, that he actually wrote on the boat. So, so the fact that I don't know his back story, I apologize. I'm just telling you, I just read testimony from the, you know, his side and that's what he said. So I'm going to believe him because I'm going to, exactly, we don't know any of this because this stuff in 1910. Wait, so you don't know that it's from this guy. I do know that it's, it's presented as known from him. I can't prove this. You're asking me to prove stuff that's impossible, dude.  Does a time machine exist? So does a time machine exist? How can I prove that he said it, but talked about the fact that we don't want you to interrupt, even if it's the little like, oh, but how do you know that? So we do want to actually give people a chance to respond.  This guy is like, Alex, both you and everybody else who maybe needs to practice on their self-control, impulse control type stuff need to actually let the other person respond. Looks like RJ has something to say. Yeah, yeah. Remember, we have a lot of testimony and of course I don't think it's going to do any good to ask Alex like, where did he get the testimony that he read from secondary websites or whatever? There were commissions that were condoned. The Smith's Commission that was conducted in 1912 on all of this, the British more or less a whitewash commission to make white star look good. But the point is that you add a whole mass of passengers and crew who were raked over the coals on this. And as far as I am aware, absolutely nobody other than that one person makes any reference to any listing on the ship. In fact, one of the things about the Titanic voyage all the way up to the time it hit the iceberg was how bloody smooth everything was that absolutely nobody noticed that anything was going a little bit like that. No one noticed a glass sliding. No one noticed the water sloshing in the other two rooms. Someone did notice. Hold on, someone did notice. Like RJ or I should say Alex, we do have to let RJ. He has one case that is fielded by the Gardner camp. That's the one example of somebody who recollected that he had seen at one point a listing of the ship. And we offer a perfectly rational explanation. If that was taking place early in the voyage when they were just leaving Southampton, that was entirely understandable. And the point is that is, let me finish, that there's no corroboration for that. Now we wish you, you clearly want to make this testimony which I don't believe you've studied firsthand but you've just gotten from a secondary source that you prefer, that you want to raise that up to an absolute oracle. Why? Because Gardner does it for you. But those of us outside your conspiracy bubble are not obliged to presume that your inability to even teleport from starboard, you have no engineering degree. I don't have a marine engineering degree. So you have no personal way of assessing, just as I don't have a personal way of assessing on our own, how much structural damage was done to the Olympic. You weren't there, I wasn't there, but decades of people who were involved with the shipping industry, including investigators after the fact that none of this pops up as a scenario until Gardner pops it out of his hat in 1998, long after the fact, after many of the participants are conveniently did, so they can't sue it. All right, we'll give a chance. Alex, you've got several minutes to respond because there's a lot of points there. Well, I don't even think there are a lot of points here. The fact that you can admit that a boat, a cruise liner in 1911, taking even minor damage could mess it up entirely. The fact that you won't admit that is just absurd. So listen, I can say here, we can go back and forth. Cunningham, his testimony is that the boat listed.  Well, it was when they got saved by the SS California, supposedly when they were brought ashore, there's a bunch of military people telling them not to say anything because supposedly, the military could have been in on it because they were the ones that originally caused the accident with the White Star Line. So I believe that the military could have been in on it because the backing of the entire country, White Star Line was a very important thing for the country. So it was basically like a socialized cruise line in a way. So it was basically subsidized by the government. So what they did was when the crew came off, there's even testimony that the crew was not allowed to say anything. They were not allowed to be interviewed. They're not allowed to do any press. And they said that this was by military people that told them to do this because I believe that the military is involved in this. He wants to know that the chain of command, but I believe the chain of command is very simple. A boat taking even small damage in 1910 would cause irreparable damages. Testimony from somebody that wrote on the Titanic said that the boat was listing. So we have testimony from people that were actually there that were not working or under threat of the government. So you just have to look at who benefits from this. The UK wanted the White Star Line to be a flagship brand for their entire country. It'd be like United States saving Ford. It would be like one of these places, you want to keep it afloat. So that's the same reason why they're involved. I know that's hard for these guys. I don't believe there's any sort of conspiracy, but I get it. You guys don't want to say there's any conspiracy, but you won't even admit that a small damage to a huge cruise liner could have irreparable harm to it is just absolutely absurd. So can I ask you a quick question? Is it possible to damage a boat, even an extremely large boat in a way that has absolutely no effect on its buoyancy in the water? No. You're so, if I damaged a part of a ship that is above water and is only above water, you're saying that's going to affect the ship's buoyancy in the water? It will never be as good as new. And that's how that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking. So would it affect it? Yes. It's buoyancy. No, no, no, no. It's buoyancy. How the boat floats. Yeah, it could because it could be weakened right there and on tough water. Yeah, but this is above the water. This is above the water. So how would it affect its ability to fly? Yeah, but the boat, the entire boat, the entire boat gets wet, but so you're telling me, even if it's top part above. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? What are you talking about? No, you said the entire boat gets wet. I mean, like if it rains, yeah, but like, wait, do you think that like ocean line? So you're telling me that you're telling me damage above the water line. That doesn't affect the boat. Alex, we have to let. Well, what's he saying James mid sentence? That's why you can't tell what he's saying as you're interrupting a mid sentence. Thank you. So yeah, if you damage, like if say even like a small explosion happened in like the kitchen of an ocean liner, the ship is going to be able to sail just fine. It will be able to sail itself to a port. I'm not, I'm not asking you if any aspect of the ship will change. I'm asking you if it's ability to float. It's ability to sail. It's ability to retain its balance in the water.  It's buoyancy in the water. Excuse me. I'm not finished. Did you ask me a question? You asked me, do I know what the word buoyancy means? You just asked me, do I know what the word buoyancy is? I know what the word buoyancy is. That's the answer. Yes. It's something that you just asked me that question. Did he ask me that question, James or not? Leo, you're snarky asking of whether or not he knows what buoyancy means is a question. So to be fair, I do actually have to say to be consistent because there are a lot of snarky questions tonight and I've tried to defer to those questions, taking them seriously because you guys really like being sassy and very sad. We'll give Alex a chance to respond. It's not really just sassy. It's just, I'm curious. If I'm asking you a basic question, go ahead, Alex, to answer the question. Oh, I mean, I am, but still. A boat taking damage anywhere, even in a kitchen could cause, I mean, will it float the same? It could, but it could have weakened. It could. I mean, just depends on how much damage it takes. I mean, that's all. I mean, that's very simple. I don't know why that's important. I don't know how that has to do with it. Well, you didn't let me get to a good point. You don't understand the complex of this debate.  Sure, yeah, whatever. I mean, I was going to get to a point. You asked your point.  I actually didn't get to a point, but yeah. First, you don't have a point. You haven't had to follow this whole thing. Seriously, go ahead, RJ. Your memory is very bad and your understanding of this issue is very superficial. You mentioned the Californian rescuing people off the Titanic. No, they didn't. Not a single time. They were supposed to. I know they were supposed to. They were supposed to. It was the Carpathia. Captain Rustin of rival Carpathia. Yeah, I should definitely mention that. Which was in the ocean at the time, which you are claiming was actually the Titanic, was steaming towards the ship. In fact, one of the reasons why there was such a delay on it getting back into service was precisely because of that point. I, you also falsely claim, not a thin air. You just pull this out of nowhere that the White Star Company was like subsidized by the government and all that. No, it wasn't. Cunard was getting some subsidies from the government. They made a deal with the British government in not, excuse me, Buckaroo. Cunard and White Star aren't the same company. You claim the White Star company was like this. No. Now you just kind of mush things together in like this big bouya base of ignorance that's going on. Coming from a lack of experience because you're a young guy.  But if you can't tell Port from Starbird, if you seriously think the White Star Company was being subsidized by the British government when it wasn't, that somehow you could talk, hallucinate this anxiety-ridden Captain Smith who was heading for his nice retirement home. This was his last voyage. He was happy to go out. They were having a party on board the ship. He was in good spirits. Everything was delightful until the boom came down when they slammed into the boat while he was asleep and that somehow or other he left like a memo to Murdoch or somebody to ram into the nearest iceberg. The moment you try to think through how this supposed conspiracy was conducted and documented at factual level, it disappears in a fog. And all you can point to are your non-understanding of the supposed damage on the Titanic or Olympic that you, by your own admission, have no technical expertise to determine. So please respond to that although it's going to be the same spin. Yeah, because you've been wrong. Everything you said makes... Listen, I've debunked everything you've said. You're saying that the White Star wasn't subsidized by the government that they didn't want the White Star line? Yeah, but you're telling me they wouldn't want the White Star line to stay in business.  So you're telling me how to prove that. I don't know the financial machinations of these companies in the government, but I believe the government has interest in keeping the White Star line afloat. But that's just what I'm saying. I mean, listen, we can go back and forth. I know my argument. I have my evidence. You don't want to believe it, James. I think we just go to the open questions now because... Can I ask Alex a couple of questions? Yeah, I think I agree. What have you got, Leo? I would like to ask him. So, Alex, number one, if you don't know the inner machinations of the financial issues of these companies and what they were doing, then why are you making so many claims about that same subject? You don't either, because I can't prove it, because I can't go and look at the bookkeeping. I know how a company works, but I don't know how they would subsidize the White Star. You're asking me for proof that I can't show you. You're asking me for testimony that, oh, here, let me find a YouTube video of him saying it. This is 1911. You don't understand time.  I know you say it there and laugh, but, like, you know, it's just very sad that a young man like you... All right, give us one more question. It's real. I mean... Just for one more question. Q&A. Let's go to the Q&A. Yeah, let's go to the Q&A. Get some... Get some... Yeah.  All right. That's going to be the most important question. Buckaroo, it's likely I'll outlive you. Rose, what have you got? Go ahead. Look, I'll just give you a minute. Hold on. I'm going to try and get my camera to work just a second. I think Alex has, or Rose may have questions. We'll give you a chance to ask him because we know that you had a tech issue. We're glad to have you back, Rose. Glad you're still here. And so any questions that you have, let them rip. Folks want to let you know, if you haven't had any questions, 100% of tonight's super chats are indeed going to the Domestic Violence Action Center. So, very good cause... May I say, James, even if they're crap questions, ask questions because that makes money for the charity. Okay. Super chat questions will make money for the charity, no matter what they are. Right. So, yes. So as I was saying, please do, folks, ask your questions, whatever you've got, let it rip in the old super chats as we are doing a charity stream tonight. And it's for a very good cause. That's linked in the description. Go ahead, Rose. What other questions do you have? Well, earlier at the beginning, sorry, this thing is not working. Earlier at the beginning, I was asking RJ to explain to me what it is about the footage that we have, because that's all we have. We can't go down there ourselves. So there is a finite amount of available visual that we can see about whatever it is that's sunk down there. Your role of life is counterfeit. You can't make all your sayings go with... The boilers have the numbers on them which they've been able to check against the material. So you would have had to switch the whole bunch of stuff out, plus all the little details of the millionaire suites, the fireplace that pops up in the millionaire suite that's physically on there. That was not on Olympic. So you have to imagine that they make a perfectly detailed replica of it that they put on the Olympic and that people who sailed on that had that was on the Olympic they removed the stuff from the Titanic, all of that material. No, gardeners made no effort to explain all of that. It's just nonsense. Can I ask Alex just one more really, really quick question? I promise James, it's super quick. I've been itching to ask him the whole time. I ask it, what? So if they switched the Olympic and the Titanic, obviously they renamed the ships, right? What are you talking about? So if they switched the Olympic and the Titanic, then they would have switched the names too, so nobody knew, right? Yes. Okay, so then wouldn't that mean that it was technically the Titanic that sunk since that was the name of the ship? All right. That's my answer. Well, this is to that point, I'm saying. Okay. Well, you could say the Titanic didn't sink because there was parts that were supposed to go on the Titanic. I'm saying even if you believe the official story, saying even if you believe your official story, there was parts that were supposed to go on the Titanic that went on the Olympic and the Olympic was supposedly in service for 23 years after. So you could say there's parts of Titanic that are still floated on after. So then you could say that it didn't sink. You could say that, even your official story. So I'm all good, James. Thank you. You got it. So we will jump into those questions, folks. Excited about these questions. We appreciate it. And especially that, my dear friends, it's true. We come from different walks of life. Some of us are Christians. Some of us are atheists, Republicans, Democrats. You name it. But we all agree on some things. Keep that in mind. One of them is a good cause, such as what all of the Super Chats are going to tonight as we together, regardless of what our views are or background, are joining to make this donation to, you could say, the prevention of domestic violence. So thanks so much for your questions. This one coming in from Ron Neckadness says, James, draw me like one of your French girls. Such a nasty woman. And then Howard Morris says, what about the two survivors slash witnesses? Which one? They had an awful lot of witnesses that survived the Titanic. Well, I mean, with what the argument that Alex is running, he would just say the witnesses saw what was actually the Olympic sink, not the Titanic. But I'd still maintain if they renamed the ships, then obviously, technically, it was the Titanic that sunk. Yeah. Can I say a thing about eyewitness issues? That you have something like that. It would be the Olympic that sunk. That's the whole debate. Did you not get that under that Titanic badge? Do you not get that? On the matter of eyewitnesses, someone like Lightoller, who was the second officer who had been upgraded and served on the Titanic, had not been on one of these big stupor liners before. It was very, very busy trying to get the collapsible boat overturned so that they could save some people. And that was a message that he was very focused. He swore up and down that there was no indication that the ship broke when, in fact, one of the passengers quietly sitting on one of the boats vividly remembers the ship breaking in half. We know from the forensic information as to how the ship actually landed on the bottom of the ocean that the little lady watching riveting as the whole thing went out actually got the testimony more accurately than somebody who was busy doing something else at the time and therefore easily could look away and then look back and not get all that little picture. So assembling all the eyewitness testimony and trying to regard a single piece of eyewitness testimony as absolutely paramount without connecting up all the additional dots is a very bad way of doing history. I also wanted to say the break was confirmed when we found the Titanic in two separate parts on the bottom of the ocean a mile and a half down. At exactly the point where there was a potential stress problem on that size of ship as they were dealing with that size of material. In fact, the... That's identical, sure. That's a very similar way to in World War I. Well, that would make sense. Coming in from, Dan Scheyer appreciate it, says, if true, what is the motivation for continuing the lie a century later? Who is currently benefiting from hiding the truth about the Titanic? Can I answer that one? I think it was more for Rose and Alex. Who is benefiting from the live Titanic? I guess you have to say like James Cameron, people that have made all these Titanic museums just the whole Titanic thing. I mean, it's a huge cottage industry in Titanic. It's like these two guys, they've grown up like just worshiping Titanic, like just reading all about Titanic. So it's a whole cottage industry and that's... I mean, it's literally... That's who benefits. A lot of people benefit from the singing of that Titanic. Now, can I go back to the insurance scam of it? Yeah. I mean, that shows you. Are they going to admit this? No, 100 years later, there's nobody that's still alive that was involved in the scam to admit it anyway. Who initially found the Titanic? How would I know who found the Titanic? Robert Ballard for the audience. Any thoughts on this one, Rose? Can you hear me? Because you guys are Titanic, there's doesn't prove that it wasn't an insurance scam. And the fact that you guys are Titanic, there's shows says a lot about you guys. Rose. Wait, first of all, did you hear my original question asking about how we know it was the Titanic that sank? It was hard. It was breaking up. Yeah, you dropped it out quite a bit. I'm still talking. RJ, when other people are talking, it's good to just wait until they finish. So, RJ, it was cutting... Or Rose, it was cutting in and out. Go ahead. I'm so sorry about that. And I apologize that I wasn't here to hear your response. I did hear you start to respond and I wasn't sure if you heard. But I was just asking what for you, the most definitive proof that whatever is down there is absolutely the Titanic, the whole insurance scam and the fact that all these financial people died and maybe JP Morgan would have benefited from everything that happened once over here in America. But just what we can see down there, what about the thing that is there makes it absolutely definitely the Titanic for you, RJ? Oh, the discovery of the specific boilers that were... It wasn't merely... This wasn't something with the 401 stamp. This was the boiler made by Harlan and Wolfe that was brought in, these monstrous boilers so that they're not easy to fake. And even down to the little fixture details, the interior appointments, because remember, the ships were not the same. They were not identical vessels. The whole deck plan zone, a bee deck, is different on the two ships. And it's impossible to... So how do the boilers on one ship differ than the other? And what's the difference? Oh, no, no, no, that the identification number of the boiler... Serial number. It's like the VIN number on your car. So they were able to get the VIN number off of the wreck? When they found it? Yes, yes. That they'd actually... They're going to identify the number of the boiler. And it's the one that is marked in as going on to the Titanic. They were like... She had a whole bunch of boilers, by the way.  Fun fact, when you look at the four funnels of the Titanic, only three of them were functional. The fourth one was just a dummy funnel, because ocean liners at that time were obsessed with four funnel arrangements. And even if they didn't need them, ships often put extra funnels on. As they moved on, three funnels became popular. And the Normandy had three funnels in the 1930s, but only two of them were functional. They still maintain the thing. And so there was a whole bunch of flap duels about that stuff. Rose, Rose. And it's just known that there are parts that were supposed to go on Titanic that were on the Olympics. So there were parts that were switched. And so, you know, it'd be very easy to put the... There's been listings where it would be looked like an Olympic parts down there too. So he can say that there's... It's all Titanic parts. There's actually evidence for Olympic parts down there. And we know that they used parts after the Olympic crash that they used parts that were supposed to go on Titanic to fix the Olympics. So we... And Alex, isn't it so interesting?  Well, because as RJ already pointed out, there would be no profit made in this because what they were insured for was less than the cost of the ships. So sinking the ships would have resulted in them losing roughly two and a half million dollars. Why would they do that? Because the Olympic was totaled, it was listing. So it wouldn't have been able to sail for 23 years. So they were going to lose it anyway. So it was called mitigating losses. Instead of losing 10 million... So why would they not just lose that ship and collect the same amount of insurance they would have collected by swapping because you haven't done your research. Because you haven't done your research. You haven't done your research. Let me answer that question. Let me answer that question. Because no, let me answer this question because you didn't do your research and they went to court and they were found liable. White Star is found liable so that the insurance company wouldn't pay for it. Yes, that's a fact of the Olympics. So you didn't do your research. They found the Olympic was liable before the accident with the hawk and the Olympic didn't add... It wasn't covered by their insurance. That's why they sunk it, bud. You don't even know that simple complex. It's not even we're talking to you anymore. Go ahead. Next one. And there are a lot of big families on that ship. Like the... Didn't the Aster... An Aster person from the Aster family died? Think about how successful JP Morgan is in this country now and how much more successful he may be today if some of the... Or he may not be if some of those people on the Titanic had survived. Maybe it would have been more competition. Maybe this is the long game we're looking at. Just like the Twin Towers were built to... No, no, no. First of all, John Jacob Aster almost got RJ on the ship. RJ, when Rose is still talking when we talked about this, right? I'm sorry. It's okay. I want to hear what RJ wants to say. Aster almost got off on the ship. He was offered a place on the boat but he decided to stay.  Isidore Strauss and his wife, they were old people. They were the ones that were the head of Macy's department store. They decided to stay on board and let other people take it. Guggenheim, he was traveling by himself. The guy who's drowning in the Titanic movie sitting there. He decided to stay on board the ship because he was a man and he didn't feel that he was to do that. There were varying circumstances of why people went off on the ships and there's a whole side issue of why there weren't enough lifeboats and all these other things. The essence of it is conspiracy-minded people really like the idea that bad things happen because evil people plot them rather than human beings making mistakes and a pile up of mistakes end up with something fabulously tragic happening. And that's the sort of thing that we get in. It's a loss of control. We want to feel controlled that there's a reason for all of this rather than cascading things that the seas were calm and there weren't enough binoculars and they were paying attention to the ice warnings and some of them got shunted onto the side and one thing steps up to another and they're scraping the side of an iceberg rather than if they'd slam straight in to the damned iceberg they would have crumpled the bow and it would never have sunk. It was almost by the chin of their skinny skin skins that they managed to go down because it meant the ship scraping the side of the bottom of the iceberg tens of feet below the waterline for hundreds of feet making a gash as we now know from looking at the ship only about a square yard of actual opening was ever put on the ship. But water at that pressure was cascading in through a 300 foot gash along the side of the ship or not a gash but broken where the rivets had broken. It wasn't bad steel, it was weak rivets and that's why when Andrews who you would also have to imagine was he in on this evil plot or not the moment he discovered that five compartments were flooding that's when he went up to tell the captain and the chairman of the line we have about two and a half hours left and they were all like going shit what we can't sink that fast that's impossible. If a ship had hit us at the juncture of two compartments that would have been the worst case scenario and we could stay afloat with four and he says no five, five, five it was just like an ice cube tray water spilling over spilling over spilling over spilling over bringing the ship down waiting it down waiting it down pulling it down pulling it down and there was nothing that could stop it. The bulkheads weren't sealed at the top. We just stopped to mention how freaking terrifying this all is oh my gosh but also I wanted to ask you about did you have an explanation about why the emergency boats didn't come that was another thing I learned about about how emergency boats that should have been able to come didn't show up? Really quickly Rose can I answer to your last question? It's a super quick answer no no it's fine it's a super quick answer so 1912 this would have been about the time that J.P. Morgan was developing not necessarily him as a person though he would be involved in this very heavily but him and his companies were involved because I believe he was the one originally invested in General Electric if I remember correctly he would have had so much damn money in fact the U.S. government had to borrow money from J.P. Morgan at one point in 1907 yeah I mean I was gonna say it wasn't shortly before it was it was shortly before this he it wouldn't have matter who came to the United States they would not have been able to compete with J.P. Morgan he had a monopoly on the industry that he owned yeah can I answer people that were gonna stop yeah but it was the Federal Reserve Rose was involved they were gonna stop the formation of the Federal Reserve that's why that's another myth that's another myth anyway can I say something about the the rescue ships um the Titanic the nearest ship available was the Californian is it turns out now they pieced together enough of the forensic there there was an ice field in between the Californian and the Titanic so even half had they kept their damn mic a wireless telegraph telegraphy system on they probably couldn't even have made it even though they were so bloody close the other ship was the Olympic which was going the opposite direction it was would immediately change course but it took four hours to reach the site the only one of the transatlantic ships that was near enough to deal with it was the Carpathia that was one of those fast Kunard liners and they were able to get there just about a half hour too late and that's what that that's what was the ashen face reaction of captain Smith when he realized when they were told about how many ships were planning on coming to rescue them that none of them could get there fast enough no one had any experience with the idea of a ship that big going down that fast it turns out that was slow as potatoes compared to the Lusitania that went down in 18 minutes but that was in wartime yeah and the thing about the Titanic is the reason it went down so fast is because of its poor bulkhead designs the bulkhead I think there were 16 bulkheads along the ship which were the watertight chambers if you've heard of those then they were not sealed at the top yeah they were not sealed all the way up at the top and so like RJ said the water spilled over that pulled the ship into the water that's why it sunk so fast this was part of the reason of that marketing is getting interrupted we're gonna jump to the next question okay thank you very much for this Barry Barry appreciate your donation for the good cause says okay google play jaw rule thank you for that Mitchell says question for all can they say iceberg straight ahead in an english accent iceberg straight ahead iceberg dead ahead i'll go different nice Ozzie and thanks so much says if the olympic was totaled and not usable how did it go on a cruise with so many people alex the argument defeats itself because it was the titanic he's missing the question he's missing the question i'm right what do you mean what is the question you're saying olympic was so i'll read it again so they said how did it go on for 23 years because it was actually the titanic the mirror ship so they said that's not the question he was asking if the olympic was totaled and not usable how did it go on a cruise with so many people alex the argument defeats itself no i said that i had a slight list i said that it had a slight list and because of the slight list the list would only get worse so yeah it was totaled that's it wasn't perfect and there's testimony there's testimony that the titanic had the list that was supposedly you know we've been around it already try to remember if a titanic was in perfect condition and it kept working for 23 years the olympic was damaged and then it went on this one trip and was sunk because it wouldn't have lasted anyway because it was already damaged wait so how was it sunk well there's two ways so so other than the iceberg they actually you have to admit that there was a fire in the boiler room that they wouldn't put out for some reason they let it smolder and so the plan was that that it would get so hot that it would the rivets would melt or they would warp and then the boat would be able to sink that way so of the wherever the boiler room was that's where it should get so hot so that's the thing whereas there's multiple ways they're gonna sink the boilers weren't against the hull the ship how would they just look into the boil just look just look into the fire okay but you're trying to tell me the machinations of the boat there was a fire that they didn't put out in the boiler room and eventually it would get so hot with the boiler rooms but how would it do that i don't know which part of the boat it would warp i don't know which part of the okay i don't know which part of the boat boat that it would warp but it would warp the part of the boat that would get really hot next to it i don't know the exact part of the boat how is it gonna weaken the hull to damage ship because the boilers worked up against the hull for that exact reason they had a fire on purpose in the boiler that they could have put out they didn't put out the reason why they didn't put it out on that can you back that up yeah okay would you admit that let's see if rj will be genuine rj will you admit that there is a fire on the titanic in the boiler there was a fire in the coal bunker the coal bunker i'm sorry excuse me the coal bunker no it's just so annoying no no no it's just annoying because i know let me say this one thing let me say this one thing james let me say this one thing it's annoying i'm not insane it's annoying i hate to do this alex the only reason i'm doing it is because seriously no it's just stupid james it's stupid alex doffins teach you how to unmute yourself alex i'll give you a chance to respond but i'm just trying to restore order here give me a second this is my problem so i'm willing to give you a chance to respond alex but why why is it just why do you like want to over talk me i'm trying to give you because i have a big problem i haven't been trying to just give a little bit of order to this debate so what we're going to do is alex will give you a chance to respond calmly and then we can go back to rj looks like he has something to say he asked me the difference in a boiler room in the coal room i think they're the same i don't know the exact same we're not arguing i'm not see i don't know the exact parts of the boat i just know that there's a fire that they didn't put out where there was in the cold room or the boiler room doesn't make a difference you're missing the point is that there was a fire that they didn't put out and it's just annoying because you're oh it was actually the cold room another boiler room it's just it's absurd because you're missing the point that there was a fire that they didn't put out and eventually that would have caused the boat to sink i don't know this but i know it's a conspiracy i know that that's it i know that there's a fire that they didn't put out that's just a fact was it in the was it in the cold room excuse me it was in the cold room at the boiler room but they didn't put out the fire as an eventually that would have got so hot and i would have made the the boat sinking bunker cold bunker. Next up. Thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from C4. Hey says Alex. I'm a huge fan and then RJ. What have you got? Yeah, the point I was trying to get to cold bunker fires in the old days when coal was used to power ships was not an uncommon occurrence. This was not. Oh my God, the coals on fire, a burn, a substance that burns inside of a hot environment down in the bottom of the steamy ships has got some smolders to it. Let's immediately drop everything and do this to get this fire out when it's a pointless operation. No, that's not how ships were operating in that circumstances. So you're telling me to call them so that you may not understand how coal ships operated versus how oil ships started to operate when they switched the way of propelling things.  All you've got is just the stuff that you've seen off of the videos. So it doesn't matter because you can't admit that a coal bank's not supposed to be on fire. That's not his place. It's meant to be on fire. It's not supposed to be on fire. A coal bank's not supposed to be on fire. And that they they they document whatever the coal part is, they wasn't supposed to be on fire.  It wasn't supposed to be on fire. Rose, do you have anything to say?  Oh, he can't hear on mute. I'm I am really listening right now. I don't have anything to add at the moment. Juicy, to say the least. Vec, Vecaro, thank you for your question said, Alex, why would Captain Smith feel so guilty about the Hawk collision in parentheses, zero casualties that he would sink the Olympic and let 1500 people die? I don't believe it was necessarily his choice. I believe he was in on it, but he probably didn't want to do it necessarily. He felt obligated. So it's not something you want to do. It's like saving himself to save his family or something. How did they coerce him? They threaten either his family. They can threaten. There's a lot of ways to encourage documentation of this. Oh yeah, let me go get it here. Here's the here's a blackmail they're going to give him.   Let's just get a little stanchion. No, I wanted to ask about the MP. I never got a response to that about the MP on the side of the thing. I'm not even aware of what the MP argument refers to. What is the claim about that? Alex sent me a video that shows underground that there's a part of the boat where you see an M and a P and it was like under where there would have been a Titanic over it to suggest that maybe there were pieces of the Titanic like Alex was saying that there were pieces made for the Titanic that could have been put on top of the Olympic. So under those letters, if they had fallen off, there were like these engravings. I can send you the link that he sent me after the Olympic. Did the Olympic have an MP? No, MP is the word elliptic. The casing. So it so it so it just showed that it could have been a piece of the word Olympic. It's not proof of anything. I'm just asking you if you know why or where on a boat you would see the letters MP because we know that's something I saw with my own eyes. There's an MP on the boat. So what would that be? I just want to respond to that. They haven't been able to confirm the name on the side of the ship because we don't it's too heroded. It was sitting at the bottom of the ocean for I mean what almost 70 years a little over 70 years before we found it, there was there would be no way to read it. So yeah, I would simply have to examine which are not in the word Titanic. Yeah, I would I would have to examine that because it's quite curious because the only pictures that I have seen convincing of the of the big label. There's only three main places where you would have had Titanic on the bow of the ship on the stern of the ship and on life belts, things like that. This one clip and just discussed it. Let's look at this one clip together and then talk about it. That would be fun. I don't even want to discuss this clip. I want to get this over. Let's just start. Really really quick point because RJ brought it up that Titanic would have been imprinted on like life belts and everything like that on a ship and we I mean there were people wearing those when they were rescued by the Carpathia and they all said Titanic on them. So are you telling me they went through and replaced literally every single life belt that was on that ship? You're like this is the whole thing with conspiracy series is that they have to go so deep and there has to be so many minute details that nobody would honestly really spend the time to fix or to change that you're arguing that they did. So you're telling me they literally went through this vessel and went and got every single life, including the only thing that would happen. Let me answer this. Let me answer this because the only thing they'd have to transfer are the lifeboats in the life vest, which they did would say could have done easily in one weekend. You're telling me it's impossible to take the boats off the Olympic and put it on the Titanic. You're right, dude. You guys are just I don't even argue that it's very possible. So that's why they put they put those boats on it. It's just so simple.  Let me say it's the white star line. It's the white star line to his identical parts on the interior is the same silverware same plates. It was the same freaking brand of boats. Well, number one, we're going to give Rose a chance to say something Rose, anything on your mind? Never mind. Well, I know you've spoken a lot and I do want Rose had plenty of chances to speak especially because it's been very fast and oftentimes very loud and many people including yourself have cut people off a lot. And so I want to be sure that Rose gets a chance to speak though. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure what you have to say is important to. I just wanted to say that I put the link to the MP in the chat and I'm also going to put it in the chat for this Zoom meeting so that RJ and sorry, I'm just going to call you Leo if you want to if you want to contact me about that. I would just love an explanation for that one thing. Gotcha. Anybody else? I'm happy to have other people speak. I just wanted to be sure Rose got a chance to get in. I didn't want to comment what Alex said. I can't. So Alex, can you just remind me really quickly what your last point was? Dude, I'm not answering any more of your questions. Well, I didn't ask. I just wanted you just asking what my point is. I'm not answering any more. Yeah, it sounds like you're scared for me to respond to it. That's what I'm not scared of anything. I'm just not talking to you because you're not. You can't understand give up. We can give you a chance to respond Leo and then we got to go to the next question. Yeah, I just I can't remember what the last because you're not very smart. You can't remember. You actually let him speak. I don't know James. If you remember what the last point that Alex was making, I just it slipped my mind and I had had just a real quick response to it, but I can't remember exactly the point that is making us at this point. Nice. You remember. I had a point to make on it. Wait RJ, can you can you remind me what the point was? It was all they had to do was just to flip the boats and things like that. That was an easy thing to do. Yeah, so explain to me Alex how they managed to get the four hundreds on the backs of every single piece of woodwork that was salvaged from the Olympic, which you claim was actually the Titanic when it was cut up for salvage in 1930. Well, the question I wanted to ask was with the lifeboats because I didn't even initially mention lifeboats. I mentioned life belts, which were like life life vases. That's what they call them. But pulling out lifeboats is actually I mean, it can be done. Nobody said it was impossible. It is actually quite difficult because you have all of the blocks and tackles that are involved in the lowering of it and you have to thread all of the ropes through that and when you take the boats off, all of that has to be unthreaded and it can take quite some time. So it would have been it's not impossible. It could be done, but it would be quite a task to do and I just don't see anybody doing it. It just makes more sense with all of the evidence that we have that the Titanic on its maiden voyage struck an iceberg because is may wanted the ship to arrive in New York to make the headlines or he wanted to arrive early to make the headlines and they struck an iceberg and assault. All right, you got it. Thank you very much. And the next question, Hannah Anderson says, Oh, that's right. Amanda, thank you very much sent via Venmo. Appreciate it. We do have Venmo folks in Amanda Foster says thanks for all you do James. Thank you very much Amanda seriously. That means a lot and Hannah Anderson said spirited debate. My ears are still ringing love our modern day debate. Thank you Hannah for that and I couldn't agree more. It's been a juicy one. It's been a lively one. I never expected this particular topic would be so lively raw neck and this says I didn't really hear a good response to the fact that the insurance carried on the Titanic didn't cover her loss making the whole endeavor. Moot Alex. This is such a simple concept that people don't understand is the Olympic wasn't an accident that they were going to lose the money for the Olympic anyway. So then they sunk it as a Titanic to mitigate their losses instead of losing 10 million. They got the settlement because they were able to collect it on the Titanic because that actually had insurance. They did not have insurance on the Olympic because it wasn't an accident with the Royal British Navy and they the White Star line was found liable. So the insurance company didn't pay for it. So people can't realize this Olympic boat wouldn't have lasted. They're going to lose that anyway. So they were going to go out of business. They were going to lose a $5 million ship anyway. So what they do is they sink it knowing that they might lose $10 million but at least they're going to get $7 million in insurance mitigating their losses instead of losing 10 million. They only lose 3 million. Now people don't understand how an insurance scam works because when you ask that question you say it was an insurance scam just by asking that question. You don't understand what my point is. Juicy and thank you very much for this question coming in from Sudan him gives a skeptical face and Sunflower a.k.a. big helium thumper says RJ most conspiracy theories may be wrong but sometimes there is a reason for all of this MK ultra happened. We're not here to talk about some other conspiracy. We're here to talk about the Titanic and it doesn't matter. There could be a million conspiracy to say they're actually true. A conspiracy did actually work to assassinate Abraham Lincoln back in 1865. There was a conspiracy to assassinate Caesar in the forum. That doesn't rescue the Titanic scenario which stands or falls on the evidence and Alex is not nearly accurate enough to be able to offer a convincing case except to somebody who thinks as badly as he does. I disagree. I have more evidence in you. I have extra testimony from somebody that was on a boat that was listing that was totaled so you don't have any actual testimony. So next up you can attack me but I have evidence says can I represent Alex as agent and launch his impersonation career. We start with Trump. Tucker. Hannity. Is it Corbair. Corbett. Bob Costas and more. Alex do you think that you resemble these people? I don't know probably because I had the suit on that song. That's all next up. Ozzie and says stop yelling Alex. Thanks. I am sending my hearing protection bill to you. I have to deal with these guys have hearing aids. They're hearing on nakedness strikes again says how do you explain that the Olympic remained in service from November of 1911 through February of 1912 without distress and P.S. I'm a beta. It was because of the Titanic. I mean they're the ships are switched so somebody that was on the Olympic and said it was fine is because there's actually the Titanic. I comment. What do you got the Titanic was not finished in November 1911. What's the question? What is the answer? We have physical pictures of the place at the time we have pictures from December 1911 the Titanic still isn't finished. You would have had to have imagined that a fully completed ship had to be brought in several of its funnels removed decking removed so that it looked like the unfinished Titanic from November. I don't think you've ever studied any of that when I have said it when I'm confused in the question. You're saying before the way what is it say the question again. I'm confused with the question. I thought they're saying the Titanic. Why would the the Olympic so fine answer to that supposedly made. Well before the Titanic sunken in between 1911 and between 1911 and 1912. I wasn't there was it done when they were they when they put it was ship was it was August I don't know the month I know after the action. No I do know I do know when they put when they put after the accident. That's why the Titanic wasn't finished. That's why they're using those parts from the Titanic.  Yes. You know what I'm saying they wasn't. I wasn't grandpa. That's your life Lord but listen gentlemen. All right. Look at this guy's guys got two weeks to live. He's calling me. You have to relax. Come on Alex. That was a little fun. You know Alex. Yeah. May I make the comment. All right. Give you what I'm a good guy. Okay. This is a man. Yeah. I'm sorry. Okay. We do have to have order here. So I do want to give RJ a chance to respond. This would be friendly. It'll be polite. Alex. Don't even think about interrupting. The window is October November 1911 when the Olympic we know was in the dry dock and the unfinished Titanic was sitting over in the other pier initially with only one bloody funnel installed number two totally incomplete as a ship. It was still incomplete in December 1911 which you would have to imagine somehow magically without anybody noticing at the time the 40,000 workers that worked all over the line that nobody spotted the fact that they were dismantling the Olympic to turn it into that picture. Well and magically finishing the Titanic and replacing it for the Olympic all in what a month. Okay. You're trying to tell me the timeline you admit that they're both dried out together and you're saying it's impossible for them to do a switch or for them reconstruction on a boat. You're trying to say that's impossible to reconstruction like they can't make that boat look different in order to make the insurance scam work. You admit I'm saying you admit I'm just saying that they were dried out. Do you admit that they were dried out together? Do you admit that they're dried out together? I just said that. Okay, then that's all you need to know. That's when they do everything. Are you admitting that you have never looked at a picture of the Titanic from December 1911? I showed a picture earlier. I showed a picture. I'm just saying in the dry dock is when they did the switch. Do I know the exact month? No, I wasn't there but I know that's when they were in dry dock together and I know that's when they did it. Was the Titanic finished in December 1911? It didn't need to be finished. It didn't need to be finished for them to switch it. I don't know why that matter switch and incomplete ship for a complete one. What are you talking about? Because that when they said that all they needed was the complete ship that they were going to sale that they were all they needed the ship they're going to see. But no, all they needed that all the only ship that needed to be complete was the one they were going to sink RJ. That's the thing. You can't realize that so the Olympic was complete. So that's when they're going to sink. So it doesn't matter. That's when they switched it. Are you claiming that the Olympic which you now claim was the Titanic did not sail on shipping service after that November 11 refit? It did. But as Titanic and when did they finish the Titanic to when they were in dry dock together? So I don't know the exact time but when I just told you when they were together. You said that's when they did it. That's what you guys are trying to say when they're trying to say that it's impossible for them to switch. It didn't need to be the only the only both that needed to be finished was the one that was possible. Nobody because these guys were not arguing the point. You're not seeing that that's when they did the switch. You can't understand that. So but I had a question. You're telling me that they had a fully assembled ship next to a completely not assembled ship or like like it was like maybe part of the whole section and nobody went. Nobody took pictures of this. Nobody. There's no record. It's 1910. Oh yeah. They whipped out their iPhone and just a picture of I don't even want to answer. I'm not going to answer any more questions because you need picture evidence. No.  Yourselves. So what we're going to do is we'll give you a chance to respond Leo. Yeah, just go. This is a no. Yeah, this is annoying. It's annoying to you guys. You guys are just we're going to the next one. Thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from the freak says can I Oh, we got that one. Raw Nick and this says we got that one. Anthony beyondy says James rocks. Thank you. Bless your heart question. Was it lifeboats or life jackets? I could see a lifeboat switch but a ton of life jackets. That's a far stretch to pull off. Well, honestly, life boats would be harder because of how they're I mean, if you know what a block and tackle is you have these ropes going through so that a human being can pull a string and let the box that weighs 900 pounds. This is how they unloaded and loaded things loaded things on ships back in those days when they didn't have hydraulics. So a lifeboat switch would have been sick. I don't I don't know where Alex is getting a possible. Nobody. It's it's certainly possible to you. You can do it. It's just why? Why would you do that? It would be just as an eye. That's the only word I can think of would just be absolutely bonkers just to make a lifeboat switch. Life jackets would probably be a little bit easier because it would just be going to all the various places that they're stored and replacing them with ones that say another and this is the thing and then RJ brought up all these other things. You know, when did they make the switch? Did why did they completely disassemble this ship to then reassemble it with different parts? There's so much that would have had to been done and you can't justify it being done because it would ultimately doing all of that and then paying the people to do it is going to result in significantly more cost into this entire fiasco than what they're supposedly getting out of it and it's already been demonstrated they wouldn't they'd get 2.5 million less than what the ship cost if they wrecked it for insurance and if they were going to do that then why not just wrecked the Olympic?  Why not just get rid of them? Why not just scrap it? It'd probably be worth more in scrap to be completely honest. I'm done. I'm sorry. That's the whole point. I have to answer it. That's the whole point of the argument. They didn't have insurance on the Olympic. That's why they had to sink it as the Titanic because they only had Titanic. That was the only thing that was insured. The fact you can't understand that simple argument. I'm done with this argument. Let's just keep going, James, because they don't understand this simple thing. This one coming in from Shikarigo says, in place of a question of mine, I'd like Rose to ask RJ a question without the other two cutting in. Rose and RJ should do a one on one. Go ahead, Rose. If you got a question, let it rip. I think that a lot of my questions have been addressed tonight. I didn't really feel like I got a solid answer about the MP, but they didn't get to see the footage that I did. So I've put the link into the chat and I would love to connect with RJ later on on a different topic, or if I look into this topic more, we can readdress this. And also I am going to go on Dapper Dinos after this as well so that I could possibly ask more questions to get more answers for a little bit more. Yeah, for the light of the aftershow set on that, if it's a relatively short video, we may end up watching it there. That might be kind of handy. Gotcha. Anne, thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from Endo XD says, Alex, how strong do you think one anecdote is? Alex, how strong is one anecdote? Right. Less strong than two anecdotes. Very clever. And next one coming in from Ozzie and says, do you have any idea how much work it would take to swap around those two ships in dry dock? I lived on Navy carriers. It would be noticed. There are people that said that they worked on both. I mean, there's supposed to testimony of people that said they knew the insurance scam was going to happen. And so, I mean, there's testimony of people saying that. So, there are people that said they knew that they were doing the switch. Gotcha. Let's see. May I make a comment on that? For sure. Yeah. I was just looking up a thing that Gardner falsely claimed that the damage to the Olympic was 125,000 from the Hawk collision. It was actually only 75,000. That was in a year when White Star made a million dollars. So, they had a ton of money to go around. What the liability was that because they the Olympic was deemed to be at fault. The government didn't have to reimburse for any of that repair. It was all done at the expense of the White Star line. And as you can see, they had a ton of money to play with that. All of this bankruptcy thing is pigeon. Well, that's not true. The boat was the boat was listing. So the boat wouldn't have been able to be in service. So that's why they sunk it as the Titanic. You guys can't get that. Still haven't demonstrated that it was listing like you're just resting on premises. I have evidence from testimony from somebody that was on the Titanic that said it was listing. That's all the evidence I can give you. Is first hand testimony. That's all the evidence you can give us. Yeah, exactly. First hand testimony and it's not enough for you. That shows you how smart you guys are. But you can't be verified. I mean, if somebody comes to me and said I saw a unicorn.  Oh, so you're comparing unicorns to a guy that wrote on the boat.  I just wanted to make a really quick point. All I wanted to say is it's like, okay, so he's dead. So somebody comes to me and they told me they saw a unicorn or actually no better yet. Somebody goes to my my grandma and tells her that they saw a unicorn and then she tells me that some person once told her she saw a unicorn. Well, that's first hand testimony guys. I hate to tell you. You might not believe it. The unicorns 100% they're real because I have this this one person this one time that told this one person that it's never been corroborated. Nobody else has made any statements like this. The crew didn't notice this. The captain didn't notice this and any of the other 2,221 people on board the ship didn't notice this. There was nothing going on that would have indicated this but this one person this one time said that it was doing this so it must be true. So guys unicorns exist. This one coming in from do appreciate it. Raw neck and this says the surviving pieces of the Olympic and Titanic still bear their original yard numbers. They were stamped into almost every piece of the ship. Yeah, 400 versus 401. Well, there was parts of both. There's there's parts of that said 401 on both ships because there were parts they use from Titanic on Olympic even the official story. So even the official stories that there's parts from Titanic that were still in play for the 23 years. So so you can be numbers on Titanic that aren't there were numbers there were numbers on both. There were numbers on both and they they disprove your so you admit that there could be numbers on the Titanic that wouldn't match up with any of the other numbers but might not necessarily indicate that it is in fact the Olympic sense. I mean if you think about it if they're using parts that were supposed to go on to Titanic and then they put those on the Olympic they're going to have to make new parts for the Titanic and quite frankly there's a probably going to bear slightly different serial numbers because that's just I've worked in foundries and if you're like manufacturing breast propellers because you said one of the propellers went on the Olympic I've worked in foundries they're going to have a different serial number on that propeller it might not indicate anything about the ship but it will indicate about the date the time the place that the that the propeller was made and we don't have any data indicating that such as the case so I don't how you there is data there is data that substantiates my colleague you haven't shared it this one coming in from Tiktalic thank you for your kind super chat donation for the cause says everyone compliment James please don't it's super embarrassing but I think that is it for our our questions I do appreciate that Tiktalic as well as everybody else your donations for the good cause as always we will post the receipt or at least a link to the Google Drive or we have the receipt in the Google Drive folder and then people can see the receipt that we get via email once we make this donation so I want to say thanks everybody for your super chats that we can put toward this most important cause we are excited folks that again it's true we disagree on a lot of things Christianity atheism politics the Titanic and whether it sank however we all agree on this that giving to a good cause is a good thing no matter what walk of life we were from and fairly moderated debates is a good thing and so thank you for joining us as we fulfill that vision pursue that vision and with that I want to say thanks so much to our guest Alex R. J. Leo Philius and Rose it has been a huge pleasure to have you and thanks again thanks again for also making this a reality in terms of the charity fundraiser tonight as well thanks as always you beautiful man that's kind of that will be the positive benefit of this debate is the money that goes to charity it was a pleasure thank you it's been amazing and Nephilim Free is in the chat RJ he's talking smack he says he's going to take you down so I just I tremble in fear I'm this old poor little man and my little heart's about ready to go fall apart you do have a tink it does seem like you're going to have a stroke soon you're going to have a stroke very soon Alex you were you don't have any back to your teeth that rose I said nobody should have a stroke perish the thought but he is and now we want to say thanks everybody I will be back in just a moment with updates on upcoming debates so stick around for that and thanks everybody for being with us will be like in just a moment keep sifting 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say hello to you in the old chat though before I let you know about other upcoming debates Neflin free good to see you talking smack to RJ says I took RJ down long ago that's funny and then I'll hold in all farther thanks for dropping in as well as Michael Howard and CD as well as de bash sish Google we're glad you're here and archangel three thanks for dropping in second horizon glad you made it and tick-tock good to see you again be bitwise 79 glad you're with us and to XD thanks for coming by and then raw nakedness glad you dropped by as well as Michael Howard thanks for being here tyrant of Albion my eyes I've got these boomer eyes I can barely see I think it says Albion we're glad you're here as well as let's see Neflin free says no James is making fun I didn't say that it's true I made that up at the last part when I said that Neflin free was talking smack he wasn't he was just minding his own business sorry enough but I just I couldn't help myself there are some people that I just love to tease or needle a little bit I mean Neflin free is one of them once in a while I teased that what is it like stupid whore nakedness or nakedness I can't remember but you get the idea we really do appreciate getting to tease all of you in the chat it's fun as well as many others including iron horse who I don't know if you recognize folks that is flat earth Aussie I mean Aussie they always correct me on that very embarrassing but as for a cool thanks for Oh as for cool I'm so sorry that I didn't read your super chat so sorry about that I'm dead serious as for cool what you should do and I'm sorry that you have to do this because I it is my mistake I should have read your super chat so it is purely an intention error on my my part I'm sorry sometimes I just as I'm scrolling through let me know in the next debate if you have a super chat question don't put it as a super chat tag me with at modern a debate and say Hey James this is my I OU that I'm turning in because I'll remember that I owe you a super chat in fact I'm going to write your name down right now that way I for sure remember and that way I can be like Oh yeah your name is in the list for people that I owe a super chat and so you could say that we'll just pay it forward so I'm putting people I owe a super chat and I'm I'm really sorry about that seriously because it's nothing personal it's just that sometimes I miss it as I'm scrolling through and Jack the giant Slayer glad you made it as well as Joseph Turcott good to see you again and Chikarigo we're glad you were with us it's George man thanks for dropping in let's see Archangel 3 says I have to say well done I'm not as tight lipped thank you for your kind words Archangel 3 and question the answers good to see you again Reservada Gorsed you could chast Alex very much nasty guy always have your head in the gutter almost as much as raw nakedness and row 777 says cheers and love to all I hope everyone has a wonderful night be good to each other thanks for that rose we appreciate that and Cassian thanks for dropping in and then it's George man thanks for dropping by Rod naked this talking snack to Nephla free says Nephla free your delusial sassy she's very sassy I don't know what are we going to do with her Utehube said good to see you Utehube and Mark read good to see you as always the triangular triangulator we are glad you are with us as well as total caca and let's see madam mozell thanks for dropping in K.N. thanks for dropping in as well as King 101 says all amazing thanks for being here and I almost caught up let's see YouTube search general good to see he says if we get you little where's Waldo doll will you hide it in the background pede predivate all that be so fun seriously I if you do I would definitely do that that'd be a fun game Jason lingo good to see you thanks for coming by says how about a debate on the cause of the American Civil War I'm open to it for real I am no joke Sunday worship says thanks for the entertainment homie hope your day today was better than yesterday thanks it was better today I appreciate that and and a huge