Name another podcast like this. We're gonna bring it to the table boss top.  Yeah, everybody on It's a unique hustle check it. Check it. Check it. It's a unique house. It's your boy You see you and I'm here with the lovely amazing official miss Jamaica. What's going on? No, no, you know my dad man, but y'all need to remember to go ahead and like subscribe follow all our social media platform YouTube Instagram, I mean snapchat tiktok Patreon we just started doing patreon. So you have to have to have to start following our patreon That's the only place you're gonna find our full length interviews after a while Man, thank you man for that introduction. Let me get to be in this door at hand man We got my guy he back on boss all going on one this guy right here don't need no introduction man This guy right here a real one man. I come to H town many short man and show me some love man propane's in the Building salute man man. What's going on my brother man. Happy to be here. You're looking good man Like I say every time I see you man. You're looking good. You poised man. Yo, I'm saying you chill it Man, what you been up to man? Just working man. Just working working like critiquing the album trying to perfect it Man, I've been you know waiting to this movie come out till we drop the album So and the time being just continuing working and doing more songs doing features Do you do you I mean do you I mean you you really uh to these to the younger guys of vet really to the young like the 20 and the 1918 girls like how important is it for you to make sure that you give them an example that they can You know that they can strive to be better, you know, man, it's it's really honestly man It's like a honor to y'all know man this rap game like the life's man is so short You know I'm saying so to even being this as long as I've been in this and still you know Putting my heart and my effort into it and having people looking me like you know somebody who is damn That's somebody that I want to kind of follow in the footsteps. So, you know rock with him or whatever That's it's just a honor. So man, I just I just keep it moving at the same time. I look at myself like But I'm still trying to play my feet You know saying that a certain level that I'm trying to give it So when I look at the the newcomers or the youngsters, I feel like we still in the same fight You know I'm saying so I still give them game. I'm still helping me the way I can and you know My pitfalls and things I did wrong or the things I did right there I feel like you help orders, but at the same time, man, I'm still I'm still I tell them all the time, bro I'm still hustling too So it's so crazy because I didn't realize how many people knew you and love your music Till after we did an interview and we said, oh, yeah, we did propane and man That's what's up. Everybody's like propane.  Man? I'll be listening to him Like dang, really that's what's up, man. You got a lot of fans dedicated fans. Oh, yeah for sure. This is I got a unique Fanbase for show me and Bumbi was telling me that man like they really like they ride for me You know I'm saying so yeah, that's that's dope man And I I just want to continue to build and build with them like that's when I go in and I make my music I'm really talking to the audience that I know is like for me. You know I'm not trying to Stepping nobody else lane or be like nobody else or trying to make no other type of music man I'm talking to the people that Resignate with the shit that I'm talking about I remember I remember on Instagram one time after you know We sent out your interview and stuff like that and I saw where you had flown to do some work with Bumbi Yeah, what was that all about because it was Paul was there to everybody was there so that was actually the second time he did that the first time he did it was in 2019 it's a Popular legendary producer out of New York named static selector and what they do is They create an entire album in one day. You know I'm saying they do it in New York You know, you know born is born so everybody got love for born Iraq were born the first time he did it I mean it's just it was for 24 hours He in the studio Realistically he there for like 12 hours and he creating this whole album right then in there They finish it. They started and they finish it.  That's who me him and styles Pete did a record power came. They had to do who played the Italian Marlbos on The Frank Lucas movie American gangsta So he came through man, he came to my favorite movie man. Yeah, he came through and talked on the outro It was crazy.  It was in my head man.  I don't really say big bro. You know I'm saying cuz my mama had one other son That's my brother. That's my big brother. So but like in the OG since that's my brother though That's like my real brother. That's not my big bro. That's like my brother. You know, I'm saying or like a or some so man for him to even Invite me to that for the second time and to him, you know Boyn got a lot of love for me and you know, he looking me like propane a rapper. I'm doing whatever I'm doing my thing with her, but he still won't be to me.  You know what I'm saying? My daughter's name is Jada Chris. Oh, yeah, you know, I'm saying so Definitely come from Jada. That's that's cute. Yeah. So that's that's like that was just big bro Like to do a song with style speed. What I'm saying. Yeah, we were crazy on that too Because when he posted that picture of how you were so tired Back So I had came in man was if I was but it was just dope like I that's one of them things like I I never want to leave like a lot of the New York rappers. They would come in and you know, you know They were born do they song and they leave but they from there.   It's Wu-Tang.    They did another one. You know, he feels them.  That's what motivation and how I mean you guys get to go ready to go soon Y'all get there y'all know what time it is. I know y'all gotta come on.  So it's like it ain't really time to play around. Isn't it? Gotta knock out a living song. So It's like all right, just a song.    They watching us everybody.  We did they watching you record your verse. I see it crazy So when y'all did this in 2019 did y'all go back and do The videos later on like music video. Yeah, he did. Yeah Yeah, so we did one of the songs we shot the video down here Yeah, he did so the videos is later, but they do the album in one day You I Said when I when I look at you I was looking you just you just had a song did you drop on your page? It was a deal up. What was that guy name? Yeah, that was a so yeah, I just dropped it on my page Yeah, so I was walking as well like yeah, well, how did you guys end up coming together to do that? So Walk he he do this thing called a deal is real and basically what he do for like a few days What he'll do is With this is just strictly with his artist. So if you for instance, like if you get a verse from One of his artists he'll get on the song for free if you pay a certain price Wow, and he does that to you know I'm saying that that brings money to the crew You know I'm saying that shit is genius like and it's it's dope If you being the CEO of your camp you got all these artists You know I'm saying it's a lot of people that probably don't even know them or they may know them and kind of like them And so you telling me for this price. I could get you on the song too, and we don't shoot the video too That video come with it. So walk him in he was like, bro. Why don't we do that? Like me and you and they get the song in the video and D love was one of the dudes who um He got a record he got a record and he got the video and I just liked his hustle, bro You know I'm saying sometimes it just happened like that. I fucked with his hustle I focus what he was trying to do I feel he was serious and he shot the video and I thought he was taking the serious.   Like you know I'm saying I don't know I think that's that's that's genius Man even because you really helping the younger the guys who try so so that's more what what we structured to do Is help the ones that's coming up on us, right? Yeah, yeah, man So when you think about like the the Houston, do you love the way the Houston music is right now? Absolutely love it, bro I love it. Love the whole movement to everything.    I'm one of them ones you know like you would see somebody from a city and They got like all the teams tatted on them on type shit You know I'm saying one of them like they just big about where they from You know I'm saying I ain't got all the teams tatted on me, but I'm like that when it come to Houston You know I'm saying like I just really really love Houston. I really love Texas You know I'm saying like anything coming out of Texas.  You know I'm saying and it's just a movie playing out So I'm really watching from taking myself out of it. Just a fan.  Like I was down in these Texas I don't go home much, but you know when I was down now I thought about you alone view for so and and I was like then because it was a deep birthday Yeah, I was like damn man I wish you would have been there to really to be honest man for so and I Said man then to think about it like like you and you and on that album You both know that I was supposed to be on now man. Hey, I did man if you watching that was my fault, bro I'll tell you but we gonna make up for it though me and I did got some we got some shit coming He definitely wanted me on one of them records man, and I think man he hit me up when he hit me up I was a year and we chopped it up. So I mean you're with me and my partners we Fake it but Addy's just got that energy where you really really rock with him.  We at the beach I'm man. Yeah, bro.   And that's what really made like like for so man like it's it's my my my ties to long view is so like Rude it's it's it's and it's crazy cuz I got all my family from East Texas So, you know, and I didn't live down there before so it's a lot of people down there They are gold to war with if you say I'm not from the you know, it's like not a nigga from long view You know, and I don't mind it, you know, I'll you trip, you know, even though I'm born and raised in Houston I've lived down there before and I love long view like with a passion in my family down there So I rip long view to you know, I said you like them niggas real me I ain't gonna never tell me go nine from now. So you got niggas who will be like no He's from long view.  Come on, man And that's your dope man.  He really is long. You know, David Street Bro any career No When you look at the up-and-coming artists out of the Houston area, you know, like like I know the ones It's on the radar, but is it anybody that's not on the radar that you looking at it may you know How do you formulate your team? Like do you have some guys that you really would like to like, you know, embrace? Yeah, man, and it's a it's a actually a lot of orders. Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of youngsters getting to it man.  I really don't even want to start name because I know somebody gonna get mad And it's a lot of these It's a lot of young niggas and they really hard like yeah, man GGO Kurt one that I want to really just speak on GGO Kurt and he he he not from here, but he here though. He from He from Lovekin is he? Yeah, I need the interview here. Yeah, love Little chat was he from the little chat was from down there, too. Yeah, like they got some people that's coming from No, man, that's a Spanish rapper. He hard as hell Jeremy feels. Yeah, it's man It's a lot of things. It's it's man the city got got some niggas really really really really doing that thing Then that's what that's what's up. Like we got like like Houston is like the third or fourth biggest in the United States, bro Yeah, it's a lot of people show a lot of stuff going on man show and I ain't gonna lie to you When is this when is this next project supposed to come out like so man? We we trying to this this was the plan I was trying to line it up With the 33rd next generation movie that's coming out and it was supposed to come out next It was supposed to come out last month, but they had some some big plays that came with the movie So that's actually a good thing. It's gonna be even bigger So what I was basically doing I just want to wait till the movie drop and we'll have a day for it And maybe like a week or two and my I'm gonna come out the following week of the movie Okay, okay, I'm really excited about that shit man I know like my friends be hit me up.  I feel like everything I drop a classic, but you know I'm saying that's just me But at the same time I feel like it keep getting better and it keep getting better My following keep getting better like I got kind of what you call like a co-fan base You know, yeah, and I feel like we growing and we growing and we growing like you they go I watched them online all day going to war for me You can't tell them shit like propane the goat propane underrated He better than this and it's like I think the the more it's time progresses in a bigger that I get and more platforms that I reach It's like I'm doing all that so they can have Emma when they be going to war with me cuz I watch it all the time You type my name and they just go and you know and we did some major shit with the last hour We are independently was number one. Oh, yeah, we can drop number one ammo.  So that's more than anything Of course, I want to drop it because I don't put my blood, sweat and tears in this But I really want this shit for my fans because we just we growing and we growing and we growing when you think about Big crit and that Mississippi sound and how they adapted to you know, cuz he I heard him say it on the interview that He loved it, you know the Houston, you know sound like like how big is that man?   I ended up was supposed to leave I had something to do my I'm had just came out The day after we did the song the next day my arm came out So I had other shit to do but the vibe was so crazy man. I stayed I was like man I want to continue doing this and we did more records. We did like three more records You know I'm saying he produced them like the first one we did he was on the after that He just thought producing out like this nigga called his foot and he a genius You know I'm saying so I think from there. Oh, we kind of built the bond like Man creep I already told him before even before we even liked the end of the music I was like a fan of yours.     What about zero man zero? Yeah, I know you and him y'all I mean when you talk about Houston you talking about I mean I could name a bunch of them But zero is one that sticks out when it come to the way that he you know the way his he got like a coke following Like definitely it's like a lot of you can't really you it would be hard to cancel a zero because his people Just gravitate to him all over the place. So yeah with thing with zero zero is like um, it's it's a it's a select few of rappers Because man, I mean this game is smoking mirrors, bro, and we just we just being under slight a lot of these shit Is is is is fake relationships and that's cool That's because it's not just like that in the music industry is like that in any industry if you go to the corporate America like These people not best friends, you know I'm saying they do this together They get money together whatever so it just so happens that the rap game is have a lot of ties to the streets So niggas try to bring both of them in but it's not you know I'm saying so that's what I was saying like the Rap game is a bunch a lot of fake relationships. It's a lot of what can you do for me relationships? You know I'm saying they cool with you when you hot. They're not cool with you when you're not great Zero is one it ain't that with me. You know, it's a select few of people. I probably can count on one hand You know, I'm like sauce Walker Bumbie slumped up. It ain't it ain't that with them They're my partners. You know saying yeah got a lot of love for them a lot of respect especially zero was like one of the ones probably Outside of school face zero was the one that probably I wanted that's why I wanted to rap I want to be like zero. Yeah growing up You know I'm saying listen to him I should be fake depression. She listen. That's what you should make Yeah, I ain't no depression.  Oh, you know life cool. Yeah, man.  I hate this You know something, but yeah, so like that and that's that's one of the ones man We got mutual respect for each other as artists like the talent there we both got and we do a lot of music And that's that's one of the artists every time I do something with him. That's it It go crazy my his fans love it my fans love it like me and row we rock I like that like I say I like to see you know the way that you guys come together And I think baby I was unity in Houston We're all of some people what they think all it I think the sound that y'all found the unity that y'all display a lot Of times when y'all jump on each other's album, I think that helps it y'all apart. Oh, yeah for sure Everybody don't do that man. Yeah, I go to a lot of cities where people don't rock with each other Yeah, I mean and I'm just being real with you for y'all to come together like y'all doing to come down to the music Yeah, for sure Because people don't point that out most time they be like people don't get along this is it But no when I see the music from Houston, you'll see a lot of love being displayed Man so like I said The few rappers that I'm like partners with so like South Walker.     That's anyway Yeah, no, I get it man So I like I said and just like I said you hear the little Germans You hear all the different people that they speak on down here in Houston and stuff And then you see the dirty third movie that you just was in and you see the the Kirk O'Bain's the killer Colleons and it's just like I said, it's a different feel when you come down here for me That's why I love coming down here. And I you know my thing is to just always, you know Just just show love to the city Especially the culture. I'm a Texas cat like you said earlier I love the Texas sound man the way that you guys get down. It's just it ain't nothing like it man That's why when I do the show that's why I probably been out here more than I've been anywhere Like cuz I'm like I'm gonna do Dallas in Houston and that's who the platform got to have a good foundation So I just appreciate you for giving us the love and showing this time in the city like you've been doing man Oh, man, what you know what I'm saying when this is when this genuine is genuine You know what I'm saying? We don't even think twice about it. Like me.  You keep keep hold to them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think that's real man Just I like I love the way that That like I said when when I reach out to a lot of people man, I know it's favored from God that, you know boss How one of what we just got the hundred thousand subscriber plus Man, that was big man You know the second we had been doing this long and then you got like different, you know the guys who basically then helped us build this platform All right, and and we we just basically came from the hip We didn't we didn't know what we're gonna happen man COVID, you know when you come to Dallas, you'll see we own stores that we've been at for many many years and we just never was a type that Not change the hustle right entrepreneurship is something different. You know, I'm saying you gotta be entrepreneurial Like like if you don't move with the time to change fast, you'll get lost in the sauce for sure Right. So man, like like what was what's like? What's the who's the person that you would love to work with like like if you could pick anybody? I saw people you already know cuz you already got a lit more people We're talking about like anybody anybody You don't even have they could be like you could be putting something together You're like who would be that person if you like man, I can't pick the people I already work with I gotta be somebody else. So who would they who would that be? Lauren Hill like Lauren Hill like that.  This. Ah, let's go do something.   Okay, I've learned that now every I mean my closest friends We every year we go to Europe, you know, I'm saying that we're gonna go to different parts. He's your last year. We went to We went to Marbella was in Spain. You know I'm saying we done been to like Can we know the South of France we every every year we go But we're always in Sweden, so we're gonna do these places and then we're gonna go to Sweden whether it be Mika knows and then sweet but what I've learned is like People are people man. The first time I went like I think like three four years ago She changed my whole world changed my life because you know, I'm saying for the most part man We I'm Sweden. We said sweetness. That's why if you notice why I just said we end in Sweden Every time I don't care what we're going. We're going to Stockholm. We're going to Sweden.  Hmm.   You know what I'm saying? I was we was in a we was in on Spain was in Marbella. We was in the club.  They posted up They smoking looking whatever they probably the whatever type of niggas You got the chicks over here who try to get in the sixes with me I'm just like in your mind.  I was like damn bro like Man, and I think I think that's something that I try to come home and relate to all my niggas who like Still in the hood that you know I'm saying to think It's not more to the world in the block we from you know I'm saying. Yeah.  You know I'm saying and to them.  I hear my nigga. You know I'm saying it's it's Billions of people roll that go through the same type of emotion you go It's bigger out here, bro.   That's your name No, you need to be worried about you know something like I don't I know I didn't got all suited with that shit But that's what that's what Europe did to me.  It's like a lot. It's a lot of I think that's the most important thing though cuz when you change your mind setting You go see these different things it opened up open you up to a lot of new things Oh, and I think that's what people got us in that's what the that's a big thing Like when you get to travel special at a young age, too Yeah, as you start to see thing it helps you develop more on a whole broader scale You know what I mean?  Yeah, you know, yeah, all right everybody do that That's cool. That's some b-shit.    Yeah, it's fear of stepping out and getting away from something that you come to Yeah, and you know I'm saying that'd be the main thing like it's I don't know that shit's like a plague on us You know I'm saying I think I think that's something that uh a Lot of people need to experience bro, you know I'm trying to travel even if even if you can't even if you can't afford to go to a Europe or Tokyo or that's cool. Like if you from Texas or something I think go try to go like DC or something just see some different culture, bro You know I'm saying see that it's bigger than where we from man J-Dog man. Let's go back to the music a little bit I'm gonna pull you back in let's do it J-Dog man. Like I said that that's another cat I want to interview but everybody talking about how hard it is to get him How did you end up getting him with you like that to be able to work with him like like and and calling him up and You know just get the job done cuz I when I ask people body like man I don't know if you're gonna be able to get him. How do you how do you link with it? How do y'all how did you make that case it's strange because a lot of people say that like they always ask me Well, how do you get J-Dog like like a bigger all right, right? Yeah a bigger artist even asked me this You know I'm saying and it's like I don't know like I don't know it ain't no it ain't no taste with me like that's somebody did I Mean we rock with each other. He took me a fair.  I put him to the projects. You know I'm saying shot it right there in projects Like yeah, like no man.  You can't sit and wait for it to come to you Yeah, and I've been had telling him that been said I'm like I was like we got a show together. He was all y'all come here.  I told J-Dog.  Just a little clip.    Sometimes you got to take it You got to take life You know I'm saying instead of waiting because he had been trying to shoot that video for months And it ain't the J-Dog don't want to do it.  Just gotta make it happen, bro, you know I'm saying no, that's like that We anything like I just know that I talked to him a few times because I when I come down, you know I mean Yeah, and I just know that this would be a good platform for I actually remind me of each other bro, why you say that with the Random calls and the jump straight in the conversation.  Don't even warm it up Yeah, man, and you know He the same but a few times on the phone we tell them I gotta get you over the show man So yeah, you like we go we go get it.  That's right He got the ties so that makes the difference like I go hard for the people who I seen come up And I watched it at early time, and I knew they people so it's like damn like really like that's hard Bro like so I tell him all the time, and I'm pretty sure he'd all the time I'd be like, bro you have a It's something that's unique, bro Like the music that you put out just everything about you is unique and it's it's not really music, bro It's like only a few artists to my knowledge Have that Whatever it is and I think like Tupac got it Tupac We don't even care if you rhyming or not It's like that nigga talking to us and Tupac can make a nigga cry Yeah, yeah, the only rapper has ever made me cry. Yeah, you know I'm saying so and I think is and And I'm not even even just talking about like the deep part I'm like they just these certain type of artists have something that can move masses I think another artist who had it was jeezy and when I when I say that about jeezy because you got a thing bro when jeezy came out Jeesie had a nigga thinking they can sell dope. Yeah. Yeah, everybody like it was that influential You know I'm saying the shit he was saying the way he was talking to niggas.  He just hit your soul different. You know I'm saying and I tell them that all the time I'll be like bro.  Wow, you know I'm saying I don't watch niggas cry it clubs I'll J dog performing. Wow, that's not normal.  You got a obligation, bro. You owe us. You owe the people. You owe the people to Put out something bro. We need something from me. It's been damn near I think Jay dog last album was 2010.  I want to ask you about and J dog definitely a dope dude and like I said I'm always never forget behind 5% 10, you know, I'm saying I'm never gonna forget some of them song to got me through man But when you I was just you know, you you link me up with my boys man GMB man. Yeah, just how how How special is that man to see y'all where y'all came from together and even how you throw down in Houston in there You know I'm saying but to be out be from the same place and and come up like you guys did Did you guys ever see they come in when y'all was younger? Oh? And them guys talk like they've been in this forever They have bro.    So that's okay. That's somebody who me and him Back in the day when niggas had fake record labels.  This is back in a day, bro.  We really still like Trying to get to another level like GMB is continuously working with newer artists They could seriously making new hits Dunny Houston his platform is continuously starting to grow.  I'm doing what I'm doing so I think on It's just dope bro.  They all branched out. They doing a thing Q was doing this thing Drake doing this thing, you know, I'm saying it like easy was doing this thing at the time and it just made me think like damn like We all kind of came up under the same roof. We all got But for y'all to do it and do it together like you guys show the time period like like To be from the same place the same neighborhood that says something in itself, you know, I'm saying Man, like I said, it's a lot of people that want to do what you guys have accomplished And I'll never do it in a life, bro And I think that's something to come in because you really just don't know man until you you know They don't know the workout put in either though Yeah, I put a lot of work in a lot of studio time a lot of a lot of stuff a lot of shows But mostly a lot of just you know believe it in God that it's gonna work out You know faith walk about faith, you know what I'm saying and then look at y'all today being in movies You know what I'm saying done. He got his own podcast, you know And he's doing this thing over there when I look at Houston and I see what he doing down here man It's crazy. So I always love to you know, just commend those guys That's that's really out here working man. It didn't like I said, I didn't even know man with GMB I ain't gonna lie to you.   That's hard. That's hard. They got foe Yeah, man, I can't wait to this album come out man. I'm gonna be waiting. It's pressure man I can't I can't wait to it to it come out to man like a like I say like my my fan base they pretty much know What's going down when the album drop but I think every time I drop some like I said the number one on out some shit Like that's just some that's just a notch. That's how hard this gonna keep it just growing though It just keep growing cuz like I ain't take the elevator type career.  That's crazy You know a lot of times our minds are we just we want to keep going we want to keep going so we're not even It's taking the time to enjoy myself on the back or understand like damn, bro. Really this like think about this You know how many people Start podcasts.  They tired like they yeah put out These episodes. Yeah, I got a hundred thousand subscribers That's crazy what you don't we don't know to the magnitude till we actually talk to people and people telling us And when and even then it blow our mind because we're like we just doing us You're putting in work cuz that's who we are so but we just don't know how we're affecting everybody until people just bring it back Yeah, so I mean like I said Congratulations on the on the hundred thousand man. We had a hundred and five thousand now hundred and five Soon to be a million, you know, yeah, it's still it moving because soon to be a million We just think we know it's the favor God, you know, we just be real we we Love the people that we deal with we love the guys that sit in front of us man And and I think that the genuineness and the realness of the show is what people are adapting to and if we don't do nothing else We just thank God for meeting them good people that he put in our life You know and I just appreciate you man Like how can people get a hold to you if they're trying to rock out man propane 713? That's all your thing Like that's P. R. O. P. A. I in 713 that's Instagram as YouTube as Twitter as Facebook That's everything And y'all get ready cuz you're gonna be co-hosting for me down there in Dallas Oh, man, I'm gonna get some big shows together and we're gonna run we're gonna run him down through there I'm gonna be the Dallas meet Houston type deal or whatever Let's do it I'm gonna put some artists together that people wouldn't never thought they'd see together man. Let's do it That gonna be hard.  I don't try to take my idea Don't try to take you can't do it anyway, cuz you don't know what I know, right stop playing man Right check it man. Hey man. Say man. Thank you. We love you and a little y'all too It's been another great segment or boss talk one-on-one when the bosses talk man


Hello everyone. I am Osama Ilysi, the Secretary of the International Plan Protection Convention, IPPC. I have the pleasure to speak with you today about the importance of sea containers relative to international trade and potential ways of avoiding unnecessary delays while at the same time mitigating economic losses resulting from planned pests associated with the international movement of sea containers. Clearly, sea containers play a pivotal role in the global movement of cargo and international trade. We certainly see the value of avoiding unnecessary interruptions with the international movement of sea containers. The IPPC community, however, believes that sea containers represent a significant pathway for planned pests as they move large volumes of internationally traded cargoes. The introduction and spread of pests to new areas result in significant control and eradication costs, losses in e-ails and access to international markets, and threatened food security, agriculture, as well as the environment. According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, planned pests are responsible for the loss of up to 40% of global agricultural crops each year. They also cause trade losses exceeding $220 billion annually. There is international consensus among competent authorities that sea containers and their cargoes can potentially carry and facilitate the introduction and spread of planned pests that pose a serious risk to agriculture, forestry and natural resources. Some of the most common examples of contamination from pests include capra beetle, invasive ants, the mantria moth, brown marmorated sting bug, spotted lanternfly, grained storage pest, snails, plant debris, soil, among others. A newly established IPPC focus group on sea containers has been working closely with industry representatives to develop a practical and effective approach to safeguard against the accidental introductions of pests via sea containers. We believe that everyone across the international sea container supply chain has a role to play in mitigating fire sanitary risks associated with sea containers. The number of diversified global stakeholders involved in the global logistics require a coordinated approach to ensure effective engagement and communication of all parties to provide the necessary safeguarding continuum for sea containers. The safeguarding continuum concept includes the application of transparent and practical solutions coupled with advanced technological innovations can effectively mitigate planned health risks related to the movement of sea containers while at the same time avoid unnecessary interruption to the supply chain of global trade. The safeguarding continuum calls on all parties in the international container supply chain to implement measures to reduce the risk of pest contamination while the container is in their respective control. The systematic approach of the safeguarding continuum includes four phases. The first phase starts at the port of departure or storage facilities and encompasses the mandatory cleaning and inspection of empty containers. It begins with containers being washed, vacuumed or simply swept to ensure freedom from pests or contaminants. Container depots have a particularly important role to play as they often act as the end and start points of container movement. The second phase includes the loading of cargo into the container. The receiving party should verify that the containers have been adequately cleaned before loading them with a cargo. The loading of the cargo should also be done in such a way to prevent the accidental introduction of pests into the containers. The third phase of the safeguarding continuum includes the operation of transfer and placing the containers onto the vessels. This includes the external visual examination to verify freedom from pests that may be attached on the outside of the container. The fourth and final phase in the safeguarding continuum occurs when the containers reach the port of arrival. Each container resulting from the preceding three phases would listen the need for extensive inspection at the port of arrival which could facilitate for an expedited and safe release of the sea container at the port of entry. The IPPC encourages all parties involved in container supply chain including container depots, co-signers, shippers, packers, transportation service providers, co-signee and terminals to exercise due diligence in the form of custodial responsibility for verifying that containers are free from visible contamination before they are transferred to the next responsible party. The use of technological solutions such as digital monitoring systems could offer the world all necessary to aid industry and agencies in fulfilling the clean sea container objective throughout the supply chain. Also, the IPPC focus group welcomes input from stakeholders on practical measures and is particularly interested in any proposals for industry-led approaches. Keeping containers and cargoes clean can reduce the spread of invasive plant pests. A coordinated approach of the safeguarding continuum and communication is critical. It is essential to continue to raise awareness to broader audiences including national and regional plant protection organizations, international organizations and industry stakeholders such as container owners, shipping lines, container manufacturers, freight forwarders, packers, port authorities, marine terminal operators, shippers, importers, exporters as well as stakeholders that are not involved in trade of plant and plant products. By taking the recommended actions at the critical interchange points, each party can contribute to keeping containers and their cargoes clean while moving without unnecessary interruptions through ports and onto their destination to ensure that supply chains and national and global economy function effectively. Thank you.


All right, so ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce Mr. Mel Lindauer. He was dubbed the Prince of the Bogleheads by Jack Bogle. He is one of the forums, the Boglehead forums founders along with Taylor Larremore and he has contributed thousands of posts. He's been helping investors learn the Boglehead way. He's the author of the Boglehead's Guide to Investing, one of the authors in 2010, and Mel helped create the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy and has been the president or was the president from 2012 to 2019. He's also an elected official, vice mayor, I believe, in Daytona Beach Shores and was reelected in 2018 and 2020. So with no further ado, let me introduce Mr. Mel Lindauer. I'm sorry that because of my white health issues, I can't be with this person this year. However, it's still great to be with you in the video. This will be the first of our 20 conferences that I haven't attended in person. I understand that my good friend at Partner in Crime, Taylor Larremore, the king of the Boglehead, will also be appearing in my video immediately following me. I'm sure that's going to be an exciting present. Taylor and I go back a long way from the start of the Boglehead on Martin's Star every 25 years ago. Initially, there were no Boglehead forums at Martin's Star. Many Bogleheads were posting on the Martin's Star Neutral Fund forum. Back then, Bogleheads was a derogatory term that others used to make fun of our group. My thunder. Because other huge Bogleheads is a derogatory term, when Martin's Star eventually agreed to give us our own forum, they were hesitant to call it the Boglehead forum. So they named it the Vemingor-Thomas forum and added a less noticeable sub-title over the page tonight to talk about your favorite Spanish forums and their fun companies. Even though we didn't personally know each other, a small group of Bogleheads still felt like families. In their family spirit, I made a post on the forum at Thanksgiving time in 1999 and expressed to see my thanks for all the good things I had in my life. Others chugged in saying that was what they were thankful for. In addition to posting how thankful he was for his wife and family, Taylor stated that he was also thankful for his beautiful condo overlooking this gay bae that he called the house. Okay, Taylor. Okay, Mel, you're just taking all my thunder here. That's her collar. I'd like to figure out how we can take Jack up on his generous offer. At that time, I was with the snowbirds and sending my winners to Florida. Knowing that, Taylor comes back to me, letting me know that Jim Hock was going to be the keynote speaker, along with none other than Jim Crankler at the Pioneer and Making Money seminar in January, and wondering if we should try to see if we can get together with Jim then. I agreed as the planning started. I contacted the Miami Herald folks asking us to take him around through the time that the planning started in the seminar where we could have a private lunch with Jack.  Jack called Jack's office and told them what they said and Jack's response was, I'll go anywhere you'd like. So we made plans to get together with Jack and her brothers where Taylor is loving Miami Hot Wheels. We hired some staff to help with the dinner. Phil and I hosted Jack's event, and about 20-something go-ins at an immediately taco that none of us will ever forget. I should point out that once the Miami Herald folks found out that Jack would be joining us go-ins off-site, they came hat in hand and asked if they could send a photographer and a reporter to cover our evening with Jack. Instead of being jerks by refusing to commentate them as they had done to us, we allowed them to join us and ended up with a great story with pictures of our evening with Jack on the front page of the Sunday business section of the Miami Herald. After that lovely dinner, we all sat around in the living room and chatted with Jack as he answered everyone's questions and chatted about whatever anyone inquired about. It was truly a magical evening. Jack then said that he wanted to make a post on the Morning Star Forum telling all the Bogleheads who couldn't attend what a great night he had that evening with his Bogleheads in Florida. When making that Morning Star Forum post, Jack named Taylor the King of the Bogleheads and made the Prince of the Bogleheads. So Taylor countless times that this is one Prince who has no desire to be King, so he's going to have to stick around as long as I do. So far at age 98, Taylor's doing a great job of living up to his part of our bargain. Taylor and I had figured that the Miami Get Together with Jack was a one-time event, but then other Bogleheads who weren't able to attend the Miami Get Together with Jack started asking when and where the next event would be held. A Boglehead named Dave owned a farm near Vanguard and offered to host our second event. Sadly, Dave died before the scheduled event, but his family insisted on holding the event in Dave's honor. Jack Bogle served as our guide as we turned nearby Vanguard and Jason's wife, who was with Money Magazine at that time, spoke at the event and ended up writing a very nice story with lots of photos for Money Magazine, titled Here Come the Bogleheads. Future events were planned around events where Jack was speaking. Morningstar hosted us for our third event at their big event in Chicago, where Jack was speaking, and other groups such as the CFA Institute did the same in future years. Eventually, Dave, we ran out of invitation to hold our events in coordination with an event where Jack was speaking. In 2005, when Taylor and I were busy writing our first book, Jack asked me when the next event was going to be held. I told him that we couldn't coordinate it with anywhere where he was speaking, and that's when Jack told me not to worry about where he was speaking, that he'd go wherever we wanted him. That's when we went out on our own using local Boglehead chapters to help with the coordination and the subsequent conferences around the country. At this time, I need to give a big shout out to my former Bogle Center board and conference team members who made the previous events such a great success. They included Patton, Eddie Rager, and Paul and Linda Globerson. And several other members of my team are volunteering right here at the conference again today, Mel and Kathy Turner and Gail Cox. I called them my green team and that title was well-deserted. They made me look good, for which I'm eternally grateful. And now, with the passing of the torch to the new Boglehead Center board members, the Boglehead conferences are going to live on bigger and better than ever. Enjoy your conference experience. Hopefully, I'll see you next year. Thank you, Mel. Wait, wait, wait. One more time for Mel. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much, Mel, for taking the time today. I know how busy you are. And we hope that everything goes well for you and for Marlene. So take care and we'll see you at the conference next year. Sounds good, Rick. You take care. Semper Fi, brother.


What's up y'all it's your girl Kenzie here from Layton Sports Guards and I'm ripping 2022 Panina Contenders football hobby six box half case break number 40 pick your team got Armando B Chargers Chris S We've got a couple Chris's again Chris S T E with the Bears Chris Christopher S T R with the Packers Christopher C Saints Daniel V Giants David R Bankles David V Texans Patriots Dean I Lyons Esuke M Panthers Glenn W Bills Greg L Steelers Harper B Washington Jeremy S Vikings Kevin B Jags Kyle M Niners Noah B with the Cardinals Rams Rick E Seahawks Rodney H Jets Ryan D Brown Scott A with the Broncos Colts Eagles and Bucks thank you Scott for closing us out Viviana V Falcons Will L Titans Will S the Ravens Cowboys Chiefs Raiders and William D with the Dolphins all rights good luck just a reminder y'all that know that they ship out of this they are donated you'll get your uh autos as well as any inserts and numbered cards good luck force will be live here in about an hour and a half with some group breaks tonight again he starts at 5 p.m. Eastern I was some hockey soccer wwe uh leaf metal universe got a mark Andrews cracked ice to start us off six out of 201 here you go Ravens that's sick power players Roquan Smith what's up Rodney how's it going Ricky Ticket Auto for the Broncos of Damare Mathis winning ticket Mahomes yeah cracked ice is definitely probably my favorite parallel touchdown tandem equals awesome good to hear a couple of cup contenders variation of Lewis sign Ricky Ticket Auto Vikings supernatural Mahomes the authentic nice awesome glad it got there safely gonna roll the dice here one two three left four five six right so that'll go for the remainder of the break unless it's a one of that is a four a four oh come on jazzy good my god four so going right on uh these ones so Deon Sanders on that what's up Andrew how's it going glad he here's Riggins of a ticket stop Jake Ferguson 24 of 87 Cowboys I like Pierce rookie of the year great glad everyone's doing well I'm our Jackson game day ticket Drake London Ricky Ticket on card second one of this case there you go Falcons gonna roll the dice here one two three top four five six bottom go for the rest of the break unless it's a one of one or an autograph for this set one gonna go top so uh pickings on that one so it pickings and sky more it hurts contenders touchdown tandems Vikings Brady legendary gladiators mean joe room demand Pierce rookie of the year oh the Niners rookie ticket auto Jordan Mason I think we just pulled one last break did we yeah power players AJ Dylan yeah I'm pretty sure Andrew pretty sure last last break variation for the uh Texans is going to be Christian Harris Sean white rookie of the year Tom Brady uh game day ticket gonna go right Charles Woodson Ravens rookie ticket auto David Ajabo touchdown tandems chiefs MVP Nick Chubb TJ Watt supernatural variation of Eric Esucanma aka easy here you go dolphins legendary Joe Montana got Tony Gonzalez that is 41 of 99 on the game day ticket chiefs my home's game they take it right behind it got Josh Allen winning ticket power players Devin White Derek Henry MVP's clutch on tandem chargers gonna go right Miles Garrett got Eagles rookie ticket auto Mario Goodrich we know jasmine Ritter rookie of the year D Swift gladiators Ray Lewis let's see a silver ticket and Kenneth Walker the third rookie on card auto there you go uh Seahawks some canine Kenny Pickett rookie of the year Christian Watson rookie of the year legendary Herschel Walker power players Brian Burns MVP Derek Carr Joe Montana game day ticket round numbers going top let's go around salts Fred Warner gladiators Dick Buckus got Packers uh rookie ticket on card Christian Watson nice one there good green bag rookie of the year Pacheco power players Harrison Smith 15 of 25 Vikings game day ticket cup supernatural rookie Garrett Wilson that's variation rookie ticket auto Christian Harris Texans legendary Jim Kelly game day ticket Travis Kelsey rookie of the year trailing Berks have Steelers on the showcase ticket Connor Hayward Steelers power players sequel MVP contenders Tyreek Hill touchdown tandems uh Ravens yeah Andrew for sure we've got variation uh rookie auto of Isaiah likely Ravens winning ticket to Travis Kelsey so first half just a number of dollars come on and y'all more group breaks tonight with Forrest starts at 5 p.m hockey then soccer then skybox metal universe then wwe and we've got a Garrett Wilson showcase ticket rookie auto there you go uh Jets on that one very nice that one's going to Rodney H there you go Rodney congrats on that one very nice rookie of the year that is on card too look at that one in a mag for you Derek Henry MVP there you go our players Wagner no crazy hits for the Jets and the last last uh break we have Justin Jefferson championship ticket to 99 nice j jettus p gino smith try try my best Rodney Garrett Wilson supernatural rookie to go with that auto there you go got uh Raiders championship ticket to 49 of Thayer Munford this is going top Garrett Wilson oh Wilson around here gladiators tj watt oh yeah that's right in one break i think were you talking with me that day or Sean white i pulled him a cracked ice river and uh to 10 drake london from contenders yeah yeah i was crazy cracked ice rookie ticket auto quintar riano for the texans two of 22 there texans with quite a few uh autos coming here why are they have a Malcolm rodriguez rookie ticket auto alliance winning ticket allen let's see we get dina hutch trill davis rookie of the year kenny pickett got vikings playoff ticket of evans to 99 63 of evan 63 of evan 63 of 99 uh joe montana oh was it uh i think it was off the contenders office not yeah texan tandems uh dolphin got giants rookie ticket auto of jason corvin chub power players cam chancellor and going to the right charles woodson matt's currently live still over on the lsc baseball channel if you're gonna watch some baseball breaks we've got blue showcase tickets sky more for the chiefs gonna go right jaylen ramsey playoff ticket to 199 amon rossine brown nvp contenders josh allen ronathan taylor power players got commanders rookie ticket auto fadrian mathis legendary michael vick in a ticket ricky williams rookie of the year garret wilson a britain covey rookie ticket auto eagles power players tj won got a lamar jackson winning ticket supernatural rookie drake london variation rookie ticket auto of kairan williams ramps mvp divo gladiators jj watt let's see a sauce he's a hard even harder pull on this tj watt stealers on the right there did did we did we just do it oh i saw the green we've got a nakobi dean one-of-one printing plate auto eagles scott a wow this is an eagles case the one-of-one carson strong super bowl ticket out of the last one and now a nakobi dean printing plate one-of-one congrats on that one eagles look at that one mad for you too dm marino james cook rookie of the year um we've got power players nick bosa i know i thought that was an eagle i thought that was an eagle for you we've got chiefs rookie ticket auto of george carol aftus gonna go top james cook last touch here we've got touchdown tandems bangles of the d time breaks y'all right there were a lot of more touchdown tandems bills oh what do we have here we've got the pennant short print terry mclauren for the commanders i've never seen that no that's a short print that's sick there you go washington scary terry on the pennant short print is a see-through no it's like a die cut cool one there that's very nice erin rogers on the mvp contenders yeah they are i've only pulled a handful of those i can't remember everyone who's on the checklist we've got rookie ticket auto nick muse biking it's different supernatural josh allen chase garbors rookie ticket auto raiders steve young legendary power players say corn jonathan taylor commanders raiders rookie ticket auto of charlie colar that's on tandems ravens i'm gonna go right callil mac a avery williams rookie ticket auto vacance chrysalovay rookie of the year then with a banger travis kelsie god bronco's rookie ticket auto of demari mathis winning ticket erin rogers commanders playoff ticket to 99 samuel wolmack round number is gonna go top with kenny pickett our players nick bolton issan hat skins rookie ticket on card auto you got titans last pack here and then we'll do a recap it feels like i have like two cards in it that does uh 61 of 99 charles woodson raiders hand a josh allen game bay ticket it's a weird way to end it the base is not a ship inserts do all right quick recap here our autos and some lower numbered in short prints we had the pennant short print of scary terry for the commanders harrison smith to 25 vikings cracked ice to 21 mark andrews ravens our autos now demari mathis broncos avery williams falcons charlie colar ravens chase garbors raiders nick mues vikings variation george carol aftus chiefs karen williams ramps a brenton kovie eagles spadrian mathis commanders j shon corbin giants malkin redriguez lions mario goodrich eagles david a javo ravens jordan mason niners demari mathis broncos variation christian harris texans christian harris texans isaia likely uh ravens lose sign for the uh vikings easy e on the on-card variation for the dolphins connor hayward stealers for the showcase ticket and sky more chiefs on-card autos kenneth walker the third seahawks christian watson greenbay hasan haskins titans drake london uh falcons our numbered card playoff ticket of uh evans for the vikings sam joe wolmack playoff ticket niners jake furchison on the ticket stub cowboys championship tickets of 49 they are monfort raiders cracked ice rookie ticket auto of quintal riano for the texans and our mad cards we had the variation showcase ticket on-card garret wilson jets and the one-of-one printing plate auto of nicobe dean for the eagles that'll do it for the day time y'all we've got more group breaks tonight with forest


Okay, get started. Okay. All right. Hello. I'm David Salomonoff. I'm the president of the Internet Society of New York, and I'm here today with our panel on what every grid owner needs to know about virtual currencies. And, okay, right, right. And we have, as our panelists, we have Alex Kodachnikov, who is an attorney licensed in New York and New Jersey, specializing in bankruptcy, immigration, health care, and regulatory compliance. Also, we have Timothy Rogers, who is the CEO of ZetaMEX, which is a virtual service network. And he describes himself as a big supporter of OpenSimulator as a platform for people to build and create worlds of their own dreams. Also, a big open source advocate striving to keep closed source software to a minimum in this platform where the ideal is for the community to develop and make it a better product. Okay. Okay, so basically, the, let me talk briefly a little bit about the Internet Society here and what we're doing. The Internet Society was formed by Internet Pioneers, Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn, to develop open standards for the Internet. And the organization has gone to advocate more generally for Internet freedom and open access and having a broader mission, as I say, and big interest in policy issues, including economic and legal ones. I'm having a heavy echo problem here that I need to address here. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. Sorry, let's see what this does for us. Okay. Not helping here. I'm sorry about this. We're having a delay issue here. Let's see here. Okay. Now I'm not hearing myself. That's good. Okay. Can other people hear me? Excellent. Okay. Great. I'm sorry about this. So we have some audio issues. Okay. So basically, the, I'll be really quick here and then get to the panelists and the good stuff. But basically, the Internet and cyberspace presents a real challenge to traditional political institutions. And of course, currency is, and controlling the economy, economic activity is an essential part of the modern nation state. So this creates some real interesting issues and conflicts in terms of economic activity in virtual worlds. And there have been some changes recently as the virtual currencies gain traction. So that, for example, there's a lot of concern about issues that happen to do with money laundering, illegal transactions. There's a online marketplace called Silk Road that uses bitcoins and specializes in illegal products and services, particularly illegal drugs. These types of activities are really attracting a lot of attention by governments and law enforcement. So naturally, that impacts other kinds of economic activities in virtual worlds as well. And we've recently seen some developments there in terms of restrictions, in terms of virtual currency, so that Second Life is restricting the resale of their lending dollars. And there are other kinds of issues there. So first, I'm going to throw this open over to Alex and ask him to give us an overview on what's going on with these new rules and restrictions. Again, Second Life changing rules for third-party exchanges, Kitely moving towards a fictional or closed-loop type of currency. And the final question is, how does this affect grid owners? What should they know about the changing rules? And also, how are international grids affected? So, Alex, give us your viewpoint on all this. Thank you, Dave. Thanks, everybody, for having me and hearing me out. Like Dave mentioned, I'm going to give you a brief overview of where regulations stand right now with virtual currency. In March of this year, the Financial Industry Regulating Agency, they are basically the enforcer of financial institutions. They issued a guidance statement for people who deal with virtual currencies. A guidance statement is not exactly a rule. It's not really law yet. It's something that lets them apply existing laws to a new issue. So in this instance, they apply the laws that apply to money services businesses and money transmitters to people who deal with virtual currency. In this guidance, they made a... Well, they tried to make a distinction between the users of virtual currency in exchanges and administrators. They're saying that users are basically anybody who uses virtual currency just like real currency. For example, you buy goods and services with it. At the same time, administrators and exchanges are people who accept virtual currency and sell it for living or otherwise. If you can imagine, the definition is kind of convoluted. Well, that's partly because it's so new. The whole issue of virtual currency is so new to them. Since I'm being a regulating agency, they don't really like to stay in the darkness. So that's why they came up with this guidance. It's more or less a way for them to gather information. One of the things that I personally didn't like about the guidance is that they made the currency laws apply to people who deal with virtual currency through the definition of a money transmitter. The reason I didn't like it is because there were... If people who were dealing with virtual currencies were dealt with as dealers in foreign exchange, this would have been a lot better. But the reason they came out with the money transmitter definition as opposed to the dealer in foreign exchange is because of the enforcement capabilities. If a person doesn't register with the state authority as a money transmitter, there's possible criminal penalties. There were a few reactions to FinCEN guidance. One of the first ones who reacted officially to US government dealing with virtual currencies was Second Life. The first in Second Life did was ban the third-party resellers. That lasted about 10 days because I guess people got up in arms about that. And 10 days later, the Second Life changed its stand and said that now third-party resellers, they can't cash out. All they can do is sell the Linden Dollar. I don't think that changes anything for the third-party resellers. They would still have to be registered with FinCEN, but I think it makes things a little easier for the user. So some of the latest developments in this area of virtual currency is that in the United States, the state regulators have started jumping on the bandwagon of regulating. For example, New York came out with its own guidance of how it thinks virtual currencies should be regulated. The good thing about it is that in its guidance, it hinted that it'll come up with a whole new set of guidance for virtual currencies because if current money transmitter rules are applied to virtual currency dealers, it'll cost them a whole lot of money.  As you can imagine, that's pretty expensive for somebody who doesn't have a large income from what they're doing. How does all the virtual currency gotten supplies to international people who deal with virtual currency internationally, for example, who own grids internationally, it's confusing to say the least. Right now, there's a statute on the books that says everybody who's a money transmitter, no matter where they are, they have to register with FinCEN and the state regulators. Can I interrupt? That would be in the United States, that would mean potentially every state you would have to be registered with. Am I getting that correct? Yeah, every state where you're dealing with virtual currencies, where you sell a real currency, that would be right. So that's very, very difficult for a small grid owner, rather a small currency exchange, when the actual amount of transactions is still fairly small. It's a very big barrier to entry at all. Am I understanding that right? Yeah, you got it right. Like I said, the silver lining is that New York is not doing anything right now as far as making people who deal with virtual currency put up a half a million dollar bond. They are kind of taking the wait-and-see approach and they are saying that we'll get the reactions, we'll see the comments from the industry and we'll play it by ear, we'll make more concrete rules in regards to virtual currency when we get some reaction to all of this. That's what the gist of all of this is. Okay, great. Okay, right. So let's go over to Tim now and can you give us kind of an overview of the options that are available to grid owners, kind of the pros and cons of different ways of having financial transactions in your world? Oh, yes. Actually, I was going to share a couple of these and briefly go over your different options and the things that you should consider before choosing one of the options. So, things you need to consider is do you want control over the currency? Because there's a couple of different options out there for grids to choose whether that they want to have full control over their currency or rather have another company such as Verox, which is a long well-standing company, or First Meta, which is also another long-standing currency exchange. The next one is what are your payment options your business and or country can accept? This is something I've run into a lot being in my line of work. There's a lot of customers who come to me and they say, I can't do PayPal because I live in such and such country and PayPal does not work in my country. So that is another thing you have taken to consideration when you're choosing to do a currency. And then lastly, I'm interested in having a live or play currency. The control and oh, go ahead. Yeah, do you want to clarify the difference between the live and the play currency there? Yeah, I've actually got a couple slides here that I'm going to answer all these questions. That was just a brief overview of what I'm going to cover in these upcoming slides. Just a couple short slides here. All right, so with the control and currency, PayPal is amazing, but as I said already with my past experiences that it only works in so many countries. I have had the lovely chance of speaking with a company of Verox and First Meta exchange, which used to be very popular working with Second Life. However, with the new changes, they were no longer allowed to stay within Second Life some system. But that being said, that they are willing to work with open sim grids as spoken with them and they're more than happy to work with anyone who's willing to work with them. The advantages of working with them is one, you don't have to worry about too much of the on you burden, whereas they handle all your money. And I'll explain some advantages and disadvantages of that here in a moment.  All right, the difference between lab and play. Well, if you're wanting to have a fictitious currency, best examples of grids that want to do a fictitious currency are those who want to, you know, if you're an educational grid, give currency to people for doing tasks, training exercises with rewards, or if you're just going a little gaming grid or currencies that have absolutely no real world cash value. These are common examples of wanting to do a more play like currency, which means the money has no real world value. Whereas then with a live currency, you have currency exchange, you have the supply and demand, some grids of which I see a lot with open sim grids, they have a fixed exchange where one US dollar would equal anywhere between 250 whatever their credit currency is called, or 300 other credit currency. Some grids have a buy-in only such as Kitely, which is the one that's most known right now where you can just buy in, but they don't have the ability to cash out. A lot of these other grids still offer that. Getting into the top three, I put some bitly addresses in here. I try to make them super simple. If you want to find out more information about them, you can see them up on the slide show. It's right underneath the screenshot of that site. But the first one that is most popular is Mod Paypal. This is by, I hope I do not butcher her name or his name, Snoopy Pepper. This is the owner of Dreamland Metaverse, also 3D World Hosting Company, one of the largest three. I judge the setup of this one for anybody. It used to be intermediate. The tutorial is right on the GitHub, which you can get to right from here. The interface works directly with PayPal, meaning when you perform a transaction, the grid owner doesn't have any ability to directly earn from it. When somebody buys something or tries to sell something, it goes straight through PayPal by passing any chance for a grid owner to make a profit from it. When I say a grid owner doesn't have the ability to just make a direct profit from it, I mean in the sense of in OS, well not OS, but in Second Life, when you buy Lendon's or you cash out Lendon's, you have this exchange rate and then you have a fee. Second Life will charge you a fee and this is how grids can make some extra money based on the fees they charge for the buying and selling of currency. With the Mod PayPal function, you can't do that because the currency is handled directly by PayPal. Then your next biggest option, the one that is the second largest that I see so many grids use and want to want to run with is ONC, Open Metaverse Currency. This is maintained mostly by Grand's University of Technology. However, Burrocks is the people who handle the money transactions, but all the development is handled by Grand's University of Technology. This is the most simple one to implement. However, it does require you to send a couple emails to Grand's University of Technology in order to make sure you can get the setup and they can move you from the test system to the live system. It's super simple to install. You drop in a couple lines into your configuration file, drop in the two DLL files and start up your simulator like normal. Super simple. They are the largest. They accept Bitcoin, PaySafe card, Skrill, PayPal. This one, one of the biggest things people have always said though with OMC is you have to confirm every transaction on a web page. Now, this is something that a lot of people don't know and I want to bring this up is they have a new feature that's been around for a while. So it's not really new, but at the time that OMC came available, no one, they didn't have that feature, but they're not really good at advertising that they have this feature, but they have something called pocket money. What pocket money is, if you do use OMC in your grid, to avoid your residents actually having to go and confirm every transaction on a web page, everyone in your grid can go log into their web account and say, I want to move so much of my currency to my pocket. What your pocket is is a set amount of money you're willing to have on hand in the world before it actually requires you to start confirming transactions again. It's a great way for users to not have to complain about the annoyance of I just want to pay this person one L, but I have to go through the whole click, confirm, confirm again on the web page, enter my password. Yes, I do want to send it. It's a bypass for that. But again, with this currency, you don't, the grid owner has no ability to directly earn from it because again, this is going straight through Verox's money exchange and not the grant owner. Yeah. Can I just ask to clarify there? So the pocket money, the grid owner cannot take a piece of or have a commission or a service fee for that, but transactions that are not pocket money, they can. Did I understand that correctly? Actually, any transactions that happen with the OMC, the grid owner has no access to it all, not with the pocket money, the not pocket money. The only advantage of pocket money is for users to avoid having to confirm every single transaction on a web page.  Having that confirm on a web page was their advantage to bypassing people doing malicious scripts and opens them. But it's very annoying for people to have to confirm every transaction on a web page so they introduce pocket money, which is where you can set aside money to be accessed without a web page needed. Okay. All right. And then my last one, which is the largest is DTL NSL money server. Granted, I don't know what the NSL stands for, but the DTL is for decentralized. It's a money server system that runs parallel to the open sim process. This is the only one where you are directly in control, and it is the most popular. Now noting what we've just heard from our legal advice here. A lot of grids might want to double take about using this now. I know a lot of them have built off of this currency, but you can also use this currency as a play currency or a live currency. Essentially, this currency, maybe a little bit of back history really quick, is maintained by Tokyo University of Information Sciences in Japan. The web page looks a little scary when you get there, but they have a button in the top left that says English, and they do have an English version of the entire site. So don't freak out too much, and they have a forum. They do speak English. They're very kind. They were very helpful to me. They are very awesome. The setup is intermediate because you do have to download a bunch of files. You have to do a lot of configuration, but this gives you full control of your currency. You have every ability that you want. You can do it as a play currency, set it up where you only give people money when the task is explained earlier, or you can set it up to do live currency. Now, there is no built-in system that says PayPal. If somebody pays this PayPal so much, it generates that money, but they have scripts with detailed tutorials teaching people how to set those things up. The reason they don't have those connected is mainly because of what you just heard from Alex over here. If they do that, then they can risk that ability of being held slightly liable just for offering it all bundled together. So that really concludes what I was presenting today, and I hope if y'all have any questions this last slide, there are tutorials on this at the Zadara website. It's the news section, and if you have any more questions, you can contact me at my email address up there. I'd be happy to help anyone to do the best I can with currency, but I can't make any promises because you never know what's going to happen with OpenSim technology. It's always changing. I'll hand it back to you. Okay. Basically, I'm going to throw this out to both of you here. What we're really seeing now is a situation where what you would call live currencies are much more looking like they're going to be much more heavily regulated, and grid owners really need to be very aware of that in a way that wasn't the case before. Basically, a situation where offloading some of the management and the administration has a much more valuable now of a service than it was in the past. I'll throw that out to both of you to respond. Yeah, I think I'll try. Well, I think that actually registering with FinCEN and complying with their regulations is not that hard. I mean, if you look at all of the, like for example, in the real world, the check cash in places, they're all registered with both the federal regulators and the state regulators.  They don't have law departments doing that. So it's really not that hard. Right now, to use the example of, you know, I work at a poor, my day job, a poor part of Brooklyn where there are a lot of check cash in places. But of course, there you physically go to the check cash in place and cash your payroll check, let's say. And that all happens in Brooklyn, although, you know, the check might be from someplace else. That's a lot more localized than transactions in virtual worlds. So there are more complexities there in terms of the fact that people, the partake of a transaction could be any part of the anywhere on the planet. And that creates a lot more complexities there. Am I right about that? Yes and no. Okay. In a way, in a way, what the rules that both people in the virtual worlds and in the real world, the rules that they have to comply with, they're essentially the same. So what it does is if there's a, if an owner of a check cash in place sees a suspicious check and the way the rules classify as a suspicious check is anything over $10,000, I believe some something in that amount. That same amount would apply in a virtual world as well. So it doesn't really matter where the check is coming from. It's more, it's more the amounts that they're dealing with and other things that that may seem off about a transaction. I do understand that in the virtual, in the virtual world, it may be a little harder to distinguish what will be off about the transaction, but yes. Right. It's still a work in progress, even for the regulators. Right. To use that example, in a virtual world or in cyberspace, it's very easy to automate things where your large illicit transaction could be broken down into a number of smaller transactions that could be quickly handled for actively the same effect there. Whereas in the real world to go to, you know, many different caching, check caching places, you know, with different checks that physically would be very difficult. But again, in cyberspace, you can do that much more easily, which creates different challenges in terms of illicit or fraudulent transactions. Yeah, I can't argue with that. Right. Okay. Tim, you want to give us your perspective here? As I said, I don't, well, as I said before, the conversation just started. I'm really not able to comment too much on the legal side of things. It's really outside of my realm. But I do want to say that in the earlier question that you proposed, I do think this does scare a lot of more people who are up and coming off grids that they're probably going to rely on services such as First Meta Exchange or OMC just because that fear of needing that money backing. I mean, I didn't even know about that till today. And it's kind of a scary thought of needing so much money when your grid would probably never even come close to that for your first, maybe two or three years, even if that. Right. Right. Right. Well, somebody proposed a question for questions from the audience. I don't know if you can see that all the way back there. Or if you can see the questions from the audience, I can see them in the local chat here. I do want to address one from address. I kind of addressed it in local while y'all are talking. But to answer you in more detail address, I can offer you some tutorials and guides on how to actually install it. But as far as actually getting it set up and working for OMC, you'll need to actually contact Ranch University as they are the ones who can activate it. All I can help is guide you through the actual setup procedure. Okay. Other questions? So far, if you'll have questions, post them in local. And I'm sure one of two of us, if it's a more techy question, maybe I'll probably be able to answer it if it's a more legal question. I'm sure Alex would be more than happy to. Right. Okay. Who has a question? The question is, will grids eventually go closed loop non-refundable currencies? I personally don't think so. Like I said earlier, it's really not that difficult to register.  Because there's a lot of drawbacks to closed loop currencies as opposed to open loop. Essentially, virtual currency gives the grid owner ability to control the economy, whereas a closed loop is basically a gift card. So I don't think second life or any grid owner will want to deprive themselves of that ability, but that's a business decision. Yeah. I gotta step in and just point out that a live currency means that basically that you can sell something in a virtual world and take the proceeds and go and buy something in the physical world. And that is a huge advantage. That's where the virtual and the traditional nation-state economies start to merge, which is a very interesting and challenging thing, but it has tremendous opportunities for grid owners. If they have a popular grid and there are a lot of transactions there, they can take that and directly use that wealth in the real world. So yeah. Okay. Well, to answer that question, Dirk, I think if what you're asking is, is it possible to put it in one place and put it out elsewhere, I don't know if you're talking about a specific module or if you're talking, because I know in the sentences, let's say, for example, OMC, OMC actually works over the hypergrid. So essentially, if you were, say you hypergrided here and one of these regions had OMC enabled and you had so many OMC in your wallet and say you bought something from one of the stores here, that money would then transfer to a grid owner here, then you would, that person who's selling the object here would go into the site and cash it out. This is like a vendor selling something. I put currency in getting something from the vendor and takes out my dinner. Well, yeah. I mean that, I guess essentially what he was saying in a closed currency is something like a gift card. I guess, I know Kitely, it seems like Kitely's gone towards that area, whereas you buy in their currency, but you can't cash it out. I've heard them speak a couple times. I don't know if they've actually got anyone to do it yet, but where you, they're going to eventually have another company offer caching out, but it will not be through them. But as far as I know now, they don't ever play on doing it themselves. Dirk, also to answer your question, one currency that I can think of that does that is Bitcoin. And that was, I think, really why the regulators decided to step in, because it's so easy to move it around. I mean, the reason business owners or even merchants who now accept people, the reason some of them love it is because the cost of transaction is so negligible. It's like it's in the fraction of a cent. But it certainly does what you are saying. You can put it in one place, take it out at the other end of the world, and it's really easy. That's what it was designed to do. Well, I want to answer this and then talk about the Alex, but Second Life didn't make third party exchanges illegal. They just changed how it works, just to reiterate what he was telling us, because this was something I actually investigated myself. Third parties can no longer exchange your money other than to purchase lindons. They can no longer cash out your lindons. It's more of a reseller program in a sense for them now. For example, if you were to buy lindons from Verox, you would end up purchasing, let's say you purchase a pay safe card from your local store in your country, and then you go to verox.com and you use that to purchase. You no longer have that ability to go in world and say, I have a thousand lindon, I want to cash it out to my PayPal. You can't do that anymore, but you can still purchase, but you can no longer export. That's the only thing that they changed. They didn't make it illegal. They just changed the rules for third party currency exchanges. I mean, Alex can add more to that if he wants. Yeah, I think the reason they did that was that they tried to limit the amount of third party exchanges that they had. They had a lot more third party exchanges before they made the rule change. The reason they want to limit it is probably it makes compliance a little easier. That's why, I mean, they are a big company, so they have to keep track of what they do in light of the recent changes. Right. I also want to point out just so people are aware, just as when Maria pointed this out before, in the event of World's Inc., when the patent was made for virtual worlds, there is also a patent for microcurrencies such as the lindon exchange and whatnot, and I have looked back in their work cases where the labs did have to pay royalties for that patent. That is another thing to look out for. If you get big and somebody decides that company who owns the patent decides to do something and make you pay that royalty to use it, just a heads up in that location. Okay. In what situations would somebody have to pay royalties on the patents to clarify that a little bit? To clarify, well, I think Alex can probably clarify what a patent is better than I can. No, I really can't. Oh, okay.  And I really think they have good intentions, but I think they're broken. Yeah. Actually, what a patent is supposed to do is say, I have an idea. I want it protected from anyone else using it. And then it grants you the right to say, well, that was my idea. I've had to, now you have to pay me royalties, but you don't have to pay those royalties unless that person decides to say you're using it. That's my idea. If they don't, in a sense, catch you doing it. And I know that's not the right words, but in a sense, they don't catch you doing it. You really, you're fine. And they normally only go after big people that they know they're going to win money from. Yeah, they normally go off the deep pockets, basically. Because if they're going to do some small grid owner, they know they're like, well, probably the best I'm going to get out of them is like 100 or so bucks. And that's not really a lot for them. So it's not worth their time. Court fees would be higher. Yeah, that's what it pays to be judgment-proof.  Yeah, there are ways that patent rules, that is companies and individuals that specifically, rather than developing technology, just strictly use litigation regarding patents as their business model will go after, they have a way of going after the easiest targets to set a precedent and then shaking down people with more money. But this is really in violation of really the original belief or the original intention of the framework of our Constitution in terms of patents. The idea was there are things like patents and copyrights being a way to incentivize innovation for a period of time before things went back into the public domain or what we might call now open source. And a lot of people feel that there's a real major kind of patent reform is necessary to continue to foster innovation, rather than inhibit it. But that's probably a topic for another conversation. I do want to, oh, sorry. We just got another question and I don't know if you see it in local Alex. Yeah, I see it. I can answer that. Yeah, Chris, the answer to your question is if you're making virtual items, you don't need to register with any US agency. It's just, it's a product just like anything else. If you are selling those same virtual items for virtual currency and then you're cashing it out or rather using it to pay somebody else, then it's a murky area so far. I would say yes on the safe side, but it's kind of a gray area at this point since you're in Canada. I'm sorry for interrupting you there. It was just that question. I don't want to make sure we got whoever. Okay, we're kind of coming down the home stretch now. So what I'd like to do is ask both Tim and Alex in either order to kind of wind it up with their final thoughts and we'll go from there. Tim? Okay, well, I was the first one. My final thoughts on this whole thing, I learned a lot. I mean, me coming here today, I knew there was a lot of different changes, but I didn't realize a lot until I heard it from Alex. I even learned something attending today. I do think it adds to the scare factor, but I think it's not a huge deal. I think it's a huge deal, yes. I'm thinking for a lot of these smaller grids, I see them migrating to using these tools that I've shown today in the presentation like OMC and Monpaypal, because it keeps the money out of their hands. It makes them feel a little more secure about dealing with having a virtual currency in their world. I think that we're not really going to see a change so much in our worlds, because I think we might see some people operating illegally now, just because they probably don't know these wallet changes and whatnot, and hopefully they get the knowledge and they can get the resources they need. I'm definitely going to inform clients who end up ordering services from me with currencies that are out of my control that they might want to consider these laws and make sure they're in compliance before they go through it, but I don't think we're going to see too much of it affecting the open sim world, just because at the moment the open sim world seems to still remain more free as to oppose a paid place as Second Life and In-World, but that's just from my perspective. Okay, Alex? Yeah, first of all, thanks everybody for being here. Thank you to Tim and Dave for what I learned a lot from you guys today. I think the legal side of this issue, it's still developing. It'll likely be developing for the next few years.  I mean, for a small grid owner to register with FinCEN, it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot of time and it takes almost no money.  Okay, great. Okay, thanks everybody for a fantastic presentation on a breaking topic here. As a reminder to our audience, you can see what's coming up on the conference schedule at conference.opensimulator.org. And I believe in this room, the next session will be viewers and open simulator. We'll be the topic of the panel with Justin Clark Casey, Cinder Biskas, and LaRue Fares. And thanks again to our speakers and the audience, and we'll soon have another session. Thanks a lot. Bye.


My name is William Moko Putranto. I am from Indonesia. I'm studying at the University of South Australia. I'm studying a Masters of Library and Information Management. The University of South Australia is always proclaimed herself as a University of Enterprise. So it doesn't only give you a kind of theoretical foundation, but it also combines them with some practical experience such as training, internships, and volunteering. So it's like you get a very good balance of experience as well as theoretical knowledge. I would encourage people to apply for Australia's scholarship because it provides us with a very, very experience which is both, which are both personally and professionally rewarding. Basically, I would like to make a contribution in the field of conservation of library materials because to the best of my knowledge, there is still few people who do it back home in my country, Indonesia.