Yeah It's it's I don't know that like it's just I don't know either. I love Lead no probably it's it's gonna be Jason eyes Lewis and Clark I'm okay with Jason eyes. Let's try to be eyes a clock. I guess Yeah, I'm just I'm still thinking about that show like, you know, it's a cool show Gone too soon No It's good. I'd like to see it. It's it's really fun. It's got a really cool premise. I almost feel You well Metal and rags and free note the premises and join me whenever I'm just like I almost don't want to tell you what the premise I'll check it out Well, you know It's no rush It's almost sad too because it's only one season then again, then I got canceled That happened a counterpart Which is a good premise that I wouldn't want to spoil for you and then it was gone after two seasons JK Simmons It was fucking brilliant and I heard you talking about it. I can't remember which video it was so stream, but yeah I'm gonna check out. I'm putting in my notes. I am desperate to see something good Well, I mean, but you just got he-man, isn't that Empowering to watch that Well, I was gonna say the judging from the Ron tomatoes people are loving it credits, I mean, I love it. Oh, yeah Anything is upset me more than this he-man reboot out of like though. No, there's one thing Nothing has to set me more since Loki Well, does it upset you to know that you're out of touch with the professional sort of film reviewer people that you don't understand? Well, but they're they're approved though, so that must count for something. Yeah, a thwart of sources I think you can press another button so I should go to the top Unless it you know the top they're all approved. Yeah, but then some were top critics and some weren't top critics Well, I don't know. It sounds like you're a little bit bigoted in the this he-man thing. It sounds pretty neat a little I just I just hate women. That's all. Yeah You're gonna say something about hey, man No All right, because we always Yeah, yeah, we didn't want you that you're eight you're you're hate to go unspoken All I was gonna say was you were saying that it was the he-man show and I was just wanting to correct you on that because it's not Similarly we will be discussing the Loki show At least Loki is about he-man, right?  They stole a name from another Marvel character Sylvie in the comics. Yep. Yeah, whereas female Loki is just lady Loki. That's lady Loki with lady Loki It who is from what I understand is like basically Loki reincarnated as like sif or something like that I thought he overtook lady sif for a little bit there. Yeah, so that's like that's that and then Sylvie is a totally different person So they merged them well, um, I Mean, there's no reason not to get started straight away Because because we were just talking about he-man chat It's a Excellent new show he-man goes on adventures You'll love it goes on adventures. He goes to fight Skeletor Loving relationship with Yes, definitely not pissed everybody I can't even do it. No, no, the sarcasm too much. It's garbage guys.   Yeah Um, I guess I'm not angry. I started rewatching Rick and Morty. That's fun Well, as long as you weren't watching the more recent episodes, I started with season one Oh, we haven't talked about because we we watched that post the last effect. Yeah chat The subsequent episode of Rick and Morty was also not very good Um, it's funny. I saw someone post a comment that got a couple of posts being like how how long do you think before? They'll try and revise history that they never said it was a great show. I was like We we stand by it. It's a great show up to episode three of season five. Yeah, which is yeah That was exactly what was When we weren't wrong the following three episodes with disastrous Yeah, I mean, you know us if you want us to do a full breakdown of all of us Not like we wouldn't be able to We just did we did it in a call without This particular commenter has managed to revise in silence because they don't talk about this stuff like all the time publicly Hey creators are never allowed to have bad takes but the viewers they can have as many as they want Which is funny because we our take was absolutely correct Episodes which came out afterwards were bad, but the ones before that point were excellent Yeah, I'm sure we threw like some kind of boat of like I hope you know I hope they are as good as we've said they are going forward and then we were like Well, yeah, because in terms of close episodes guys or it is like a it's a steep draw the semen episode Semabyte episode and the Yeah, but they ruined coming They ruined come can you believe it? Yeah, absolutely dead. Yeah Yeah, I don't know. It's probably didn't use fresh condor. I'll call it right now Yeah, what do you say right here to get it from the tap, right from the tap? Nothing ages worse than semen Unless that's Lee use that it ages into a refrigerator and then it refrigerated and then it lost forever To freeze it or Yeah, so they didn't do any of those jokes in the Rick and Morty episode Yeah, it was really lame and then the one after that pain that makes me happy lame then pain Being happy is pain and that's pleasure. It's like this is You just don't get them and the best part is that like we've reached a point where Rick and Morty has legitimate plot holes and plot contrivances like they probably Contrivances But like it's harder to not this extent. I don't I don't think they've been that bad.  Yeah, and they know that it won't work if he finds out like a little full apart Yeah, but they do it anyway. That's that's what we call a good old-fashioned plot hole Money doesn't typically have it's not just that it's just like really really really lazy like and I'm just like Yeah, come on. You don't want to whip the writers and be like work harder. This is unacceptable It's a letter. It's such a trope. Isn't it of like the character over here as people talking about how they suck Yeah, you just want to find the worst way put in the bare minimum effort of Creating a scenario where that was possible instead of they walk right up to the person speaker. They go. Oh, no I Have made a mistake So, yeah, you know, well the welcome to you fat one four six, right? That is the one we're on. Yeah We're getting awful close to 150 by the way, which is the three-year anniversary of which all people in this cast You are invited to come hang out with us for the 24-hour streamer at any particular Section you want? Yeah, even me three years of e fappin Everyone's still going along quite healthy because yeah, you're supposed to do that Those couple of those shows and I'm probably gonna be dead in two years, but yeah Well, I think I don't know sitting in the chair like really at the mouth Loki season five Yes, speaking of we've clearly had a huge impact on improving media because we've just you know lately man It's just been fantastic So joining us returning I say returning is funny mr. Mr. Shadavist you've been doing all kinds of stuff with us With some other things that people don't won't see for like 10 years from now, but still The like where is mr. Shaz like here is you talk about some he-man Loki whatever else. How you doing? How was everything down under I'm going great I'm also very tired because I've been up for ages, but anyway, don't expect too much intelligent conversation for me I'll don't try ball. I'll just make you angry. He man was really good. Yes Just just so the chat knows he man was like my childhood hero growing up, okay Like I can still watch the original he-man animation transformation sequence and get goose bumps I love it so much and this new he-man show Is so bad. I can't express how much I hate it It was kind of a funny thing of whenever there's a new property getting butchered It's never like not everybody has seen that one usually there's always some but like with he-man a lot of us Haven't like we're not like passionately involved in like the original show But there's always gonna be at least someone and it's shab this time apparently I won't actually defend I won't defend the original cartoon for being good I re-watched a couple of the original episodes out in our years. Okay, and look it's very much a kids show Okay, but as a kid I loved it and the elements that made it appealing for you know young boys You know he-man is the central character. Okay, and that's the core thing that they've ripped out in this piece of crap Garbage Reaper where it's the teeler show and and he-man is just They've desecrated, but they kill him So now it's bad to disrespect old fan favorite characters. What else you can generate as your crazy rules?   They are they're very friendly.    Thanks for the compliments Yeah Loyal exactly rags gets it well happy Do you guys know it's a film called pig starring Nicholas Cage? Yeah, I haven't really made this video on it. They said it was good as far as I know so Yeah, I guess I'll just trade over to the other side of this panel Heel versus baby face mr. As how you doing welcome? Hi. Hi. I'm good. Thank you. How are you?  It's wonderful.  I think we never actually slayed Loki yet Even though it's been finished for a while ago week and a half. It's like it's time. It's time to go back It's finished after the first episode I think well, see that's the funny thing. I think episode six killed it for Sitch and he's like the only person I know who who was holding out for it to work out That's so episode one pissed all of us off so much that we were just already like well, this is ruined Yeah Gary from did Ross. Hey doing welcome Thanks for having me it's been so long.  Yeah, but We didn't get to talk enough about Loki last night, so I'm ready to go. Oh, yeah It's always this thing. This is our time now. It's ready to just read it I think everybody's just rare into the second I say so Kang Yeah A metal commander, how you doing? How you doing? You look you look upset. I don't know what's going on Is it is it low? I know just just crying as always The floodings are going away, so I have to do some more water now again Do some water? Yeah, do some more water in the German lands. You got a water the Germany. Yeah, what are the German jabs? No, this is all good. I've been chilling today had friend was over yesterday had a lot of drinks So I've just been doing nothing all day watch some Rick and Morty And how I can't wait to look at something awful again and ruin my day. So yeah, I'm ready Yeah, you tell me when you first watched the show you absolutely adored it was only why do you always say that? Do you know is it just what turned me watching four episodes in a row on one day in one day that was Many doctor's experience tell you not to do that. That's very risk I'm actually disappointed that you would encourage others to do that four episodes in one day I did not do that you're being a lie Well, just by doing it alone encourages others to think it's possible Mel.  I'm Frank Lynn. Also. We do talk every day, but that's not necessarily online the people in chat Don't know that we're friends.   Yeah Also, mr. Drinker may just pop in at any moment. Be afraid.  It'd be 10,000. I heard he loves I heard he loves he man So get out all your hate while you can yes You also love low make sure I have to yeah, yeah get it get it out of your system make sure it's all Exercise all of those negative thoughts from your body get that Negative energy out of you.  Oh Do that yeah Yeah Yeah, you got it. Yeah, I'm literally all ready to go So I just like I wasn't lying when I said I'm pretty much gonna kick off the conversation with how Loki begins But actually begins which begins the whole universe of the MCU and this is the thing I'm gonna try to count people in a pack old school Oh, yeah, there's people in chat who wouldn't have watched the show who may have heard some of our talking about it And they're just like I'm not you know, I like the MCU, but I don't think I'm gonna watch the show See this one if you miss this one, you're gonna miss a lot of How everything that yeah that like actually though like this is more a law show in many ways Like it destroys characters show but like at the same time. It's basically just rewritten how the MCU was even perceived So before everything you saw in the MCU even as far back as good old cap Well, I say as far but it's funny because I'm about to jump to the real first Avenger It's a bar back is the past and everything in the future until the end of time. Yeah Was predate well was termined by post Just doing his day-to-day he's a scientism he discovered the multiverse in the was it did they say the year Yes, yeah, and so that's pretty cool, right discovering the multiverse and then he starts to epic and meeting himself From other universes because he cracks the travel between them to and um again, I'm pretty sure this isn't Yeah, I think it was drinkers stream with Gary who sort of mentioning how like Man, you know when you have to you give allowances to sci-fi where someone's like we cracked time travel Okay, but we cracked teleporting you're like, oh, yeah cool, too.  They all have all the all the all the multiverses use the same stick like weapon to Teleport people I guess they all have whatever and for people who are like I just I'm trying to account for those who have no idea they're like sticks You know so the little what they do is they have a little stick and there's orange light on the end of it And if you hit that orange light it vaporize you as we call it it melts you because it's funnier And sends you to the end of time Obviously Where you get there is already like a smoke poodle I Sorry to correct you. It's a purple fart monster.  Gotcha. There you go. I like that. That's good purple purple fart poodle done So with all the things that more was already covered is actually quite a lot to break down because One of my passions in storytelling is world-building because world-building can be I know right and I love it because I am a nerd and One of the great sources for plot is can come be derived from the world-building because is where you can get conflict from and So it could be that there is a dark lord who gains his power From sorry a ring is connected to his soul essence and if the ring is, you know, not destroyed He will survive and so therefore you have to destroy the ring And so we have a whole plot that's actually derived out of the world-building of this wonderful You know fantasy world and stuff and so when you can do it right where you lock down the rules specifics Okay, ring can't destroy it except Mount Doom how to destroy it get it to Mount Doom Those are the rules. We need to try and satisfy that to destroy the ring You're gonna start up because it kind of would have been really Unsatisfying when I don't know Frodo Aragon. There's like they're trying to cross the river or something. Oh, no, don't know No, you make that mistake.  Let me try again Destroy dark lord. It'll be really unsatisfying. They're breaking their freaking rule. And so to you. I hit it with And so the world-building if you're gonna be deriving your plot from the world-building is really important that you set up your rules and you be very consistent with them and Loki is such a dumpster Where the because most of the conflict comes from the world-building and I've already touched on it here because when Kang comes across other Kang's there is a war. In fact, they call it a multiversal war And and the entire plot the existence of the TVA everything that comes in the story is derived from trying of Kang trying to avoid this multiversal war and so I would say it's pretty important to try and make that multiversal war make logical sense We deserve a bit more information on this thing since it's the foundation of the entire universe Because like the first question I think we had was like How did I'm trying to picture a multiversal war like what so did people jump through the telepores and just start attacking the universe? With a sword so they can have an extra an extra universe because the one universe they had wasn't it You know that well this kind of cheapens the term infinity war doesn't it? Yeah, I'm trying to wonder why they need to go to war. I mean a whole universe invading a whole another universe I mean the writers understand how big a universe is and like how many friggin Is in a galaxy little older universe? I'm not saying that couldn't be a motivation for it I just want to know what it was of what happened.  Why there's also no way they all fight each other. It's gonna be so I want to know logistically. Yeah logistically. How does this happen? How does it work? super crazy team ups with Different universes multiverses, but there's like no they all fought each other. They all said all the same weapons To invade other timelines Yeah, like is I mean, that's the question like and what would they want? I mean Do they want to find another version of a loved one that they lost like kingpin in into the spider-verse or something like that? You know, there are things you could find but short of like Things that you cannot get out of any other way apart from going to an entire another reality I'm playing it'd be like you it would be a lot easier to just I don't know if you want resources Well, a lot of the planets in the universe are barren and you could find the resources of barren planets and because the technology that they have Just going also going back on the thing I was saying before more that they developed this technology because it is got three Instantly powerful sci-fi abilities and one is time travel, which is just insane already. Yeah next is Unlimited Universe spanning teleportation you can open up a portal to anywhere in the universe. Oh, that is by unlimited Because obviously it runs on a battery. Just just just letting you know We have no idea what actually these things apparently like they should each be running off of their own mini star or white Warform black hole or something to produce the energy to create portals that could but I say unlimited They seem to be unlimited by distance. You can portal yeah across any length in the universe and suddenly you're there instantly which is Unbelievably powerful and then the cherry on top they can travel between Parallel realities and that is like an insanely big one because you can sometimes understand thematically time traveler care But parallel realities and even just doctor who for instance like yeah Traveling through time. It's easy traveling to parallel realities. That's almost impossible Really really difficult and so even doctor who which has like unlimited time travel and teleporting interest They're like alright We'll even draw the line here with parallel realities in this one They just go all out and they can do anything unlimited and it's like these little you know iPad things that they can do It's a simple charge and done So part of a concern a lot of people had with doctor strange and they still haven't answered this in the MCU It's just like what stops him from opening a portal in someone's chest and just killing them instantly Glory yelling and and yeah, and that's the thing at least it's doctor strange It's like it's that character But now you've introduced a tool that gives that power to literally everyone and if Loki just happens to bring That with him whenever he gets back into the MCU which by the way supposed to be in love and thunder Like so Okay, one of the things we've noticed before with the MCU and lots of stuff is when they introduce an item for utility They almost never consider its weaponization Yeah, which is funny considering how many things that we use something that was weapons Yeah, humans do this all the time Why doesn't Loki just go into the main office and get a hundred thousand infinity stones, which are all there Yeah, you grab that why not honestly white and it's funny universe where conflict is such a fundamental part of like You know, I mean, it's a story conflict is like the central element of storytelling Why are you not thinking about ways that these things can be applied in conflicts?  He's like, oh god We have to form the avengers bubble and then look he's like I have a stick hang on Like I consume Me to the end of time planet where cloud monsters going to devour me The lack of no Galactus could then find his cloud version of himself from the other fantastic for movie Who didn't clouds better it's all the Galactus variants my brothers we must unite I Believe you're getting it wrong. I believe the correct term is purple fart poodle. Just yes. Thank you Continuity just try it's hard Because of we had a cloud monster in lost remember and it's just hard. Oh, yes It's a purple fart poodle for forever. No, I respect it's its choice of You know, it's yeah lost is like a Hershey squirt cloud Purple poot puddle. What? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god Yeah, so so the multiverse all happens and I guess we're just gonna have to this is what happens, right?  So yeah You want to see what the extrapolations or possibilities would be but they're like this this is just it okay Just accept it and it's a sign of such low tier like really amateurish world-building and I mean that seriously and It's just a sign of Sad writing right off the bat where they just have they just oh you can do this this that that when they don't think of their Significant implications of it in any measure and if you want to just think about it even briefly, right? You realize oh the entire premise this show makes no sense. How can I be invested in the hour? The show's ruined basically if you yeah, yeah, so and one of the writers is from Rick and Morty And and the other writer has no experience at all. Oh good. She's well She's a political podcaster Well, I mean the awkward part is that when you you look at a lot of upcoming stuff is Rick and Morty writers Or former Rick and Morty writers she Hulk has been written by the pickle Rick writer Maybe that's something and That's Yeah, it's just not it does seem to be a pattern right now. There's not enough experience for the people that choosing it does because when you look at the the sort of um The the filmography or like the of the current writers. It's small.  It takes a lot of work and practice in effort To be able to write anything that's half decent and I know from personal experience And you see these people who are writing for multi-million dollar properties and it's like what practice? Well, what do they even try and study this at all and there's there's proof or ever So I say I'll say evidence of the writers just basically spinning things out saying hey We should do this wouldn't this be cool the evidences are alligator Loki They didn't think of what could justify it the ramifications the implications They say hey, well wouldn't it be great if we make it one of the Loki variants and alligator Yeah, won't that be cool? And it's like that's been their approach for world building Let's just do something because it's cool and they're not trying to Justify it they're not trying to think of the implications how it could affect the largest story of the MCU anything like we'll just do what we think is cool and They have ruined I Get the point you make in here, but alligator Loki is like the best well Richard E grant Loki is like number one then Alligator The thing is my point is you should try to justify it in a good example Right is the Stormlight archives written by Brandon Sanderson what he wanted He thought it was be really cool by having these giant monsters that are you know Like show creatures like these giant death crab things they have to fight with giant swords, but it was like huh That's really unrealistic. Okay. Let me backtrack and work make create a world specifically that would justify these insanely overly large Creatures and he did that and it's just and then he creates his whole ecologically. Yeah, sorry What's the word up missus ecology? Yeah, yeah ecology around these creatures economically Ergonomically that creates this living world that feels so real and there's so many natural You know reactions and extrapolation by products where everything happens and plays out logically So you get this essential like ridiculous premise, but it is handled and justified So realistically that you're just soaked in into the immersion of this where it feels real And that's that's what you need to do you can Do what are you confused by one thing though? Where does the woman come in?  It's all abomination. Oh look abomination It's like that's it's kind of what's being chased now I don't know that there's much of an interest in like telling stories anymore more so just hey Remember this character from the comics. Hey, look at him on the big screen. Look at all that. Yeah, CGI isn't that cool?  Look at that. Oh this name drop Bethesda. Ooh Galactus. Whoa dr. Doom. Hmm. Like that's that's basically all it's what's happening now.  I was like damn. He's good Yeah, I guess it's interesting to think about in terms of We've got cuz like if you watch that trailer for Shang-Chi and you see abomination and you have a friend go like oh my god I hope they're doing and then you know says X storyline You know because it's so interesting for abomination's character and the fact that since we haven't seen him since an incredible Hulk I imagine there's so much of there that they can explore, you know, if it was that I'll be something but most people just go abomination Right this time. Yeah, he's got his ears this time and that was like that's a Shang-Chi trailer and we're talking about a Hulk villain We haven't seen him isn't it 2010 we saw him lost Geez it was it was that movie yet 2008 it's been nearly 11 years So as the abomination been locked up this I mean he would have been the Ronald Pivotal the logic is he's in the raft I think or at least that's what we presumed The impenetrable raft that everybody breaks out of To actually create the wall behind everything again, okay Don't say that you'd like pantheon where the raft was Wakanda is on the side of the Avengers Well, yeah, that's I mean that's how they knew in Falcon the Soldier, right? But what you worry me when you say that anyone breaks out. It's like I was able to stay in there now Just stay in there. Just stay yeah, you'll be fine. Just stay away from the story Yeah, yeah, don't come out of the closet and do some weird shit Stay right in Oh man, this is When I look close talking about like everything keg says It's such a weird way to review a TV show when we're starting with one of the last scenes in the show Well, that's because Is just like an exposition Lord dumb yeah, yeah, which is weird because a lot of it is the same as the little cartoon in episode one Yeah, they just a couple of names and No, they repeat the plot like four times in the series They thought it made sense the rest of the sense No and made it so much worse when they clear up certain specifics About the exact purpose of what the TV is trying to achieve with what he says in episode six and it's so bad It is so so bad how many times do they repeat how difficult it is for the timekeepers to maintain the sacred time Like it's like seven times. They repeat that. Yeah. Well, we we could talk about I'm trying to think of what's what the next It's it's what Kang just chose to do to try and fix the multiversal wall It's then leads to the creation of the TV a which then will bring Loki in Because at the end of episode two when female Loki set off all the devices and all the fractures happened on the timeline It just magically disappeared So yeah, so for people who in like said there's someone listening who's trying to be like so what happened next So so there's many variants of Kang some of them a little bit more evil And then then they try to take over and then the Kang we see is apparently the one that decided I am going to erase every single universe except the not even my own just the one that I want and the way He does that is like snips No He only allows the single timeline that leads to his own existence and the purpose the TV a is to literally prune Any possible variant that can create a timeline that will result in a different Kang existing than himself That's that's how I understood it. I thought it was just use their powers of space and time to kill the Kang's and that should solve that a lot easier Well, that's this is where I get the big issue It's like because from what it establishes the the whole purpose of the TV a is to avoid any other Kang's coming into existence And so instead of Wiping out and I use the ultimate big punishing. Yeah punishing all these innocent people like Murdering them on a scale that is unfathomable. You could just you know go after the other other Kang's pretty easily You've got the technology Well, yeah, strike them before they get the technology to become evil Look, he's done a lot worse than baby killing Okay So if he wanted if he just wanted to get rid of them while they're babies and remember he's done worse He said what part one of his initial offer with miss minutes was that he would create a world where both loci's could exist And that would be chill so we know that he can change shit to his liking and Surely that means he can just stop any Kang that isn't himself from existing The second they attempt to exist Yeah, yeah, but there's all these steaks with the Kang's right so this is this is like some real like Level shit, and then he's just like I can't be asked it anymore. Yeah. Well This review we jumped from like there's just so many things One of the things I was saying the frustrated me about Sylvia this seat is just like I would have so many questions to ask I've got so much more to do it about what the fuck's happening Yeah, we'll be was told there's only five minutes to the show Trudy's are coming in Male Loki I refuse to call her Sylvie Female Loki it'll piss off a lot of people It's like he's going to say female Thor instead of Jane Foster. It really triggers people just saying. Oh, yeah I just I know where Sylvie literally just for like logistical purposes friend. Yeah, make sure you understand what my criticisms are But I suppose yeah the the thing with Kang Doing that leads to obviously the the events of the show then that's pretty much the foundation The TVA were invented by him Just jump into the timeline whenever there's someone doing something they're not supposed to and leading to a splinter that they then destroy And I don't know like saying that to somebody without the context having seen the show must sound so bizarre It's like such a dumb plan to try and avoid this multi-versal war, which He already won the war he said the war was so bad that I was going to destroy all reality Which is like, okay. Yeah, how you could fill it like because there's no real narrative through line of logical extrapolation That leads us naturally to that conclusion Just seems like you would destroy the universes at war and then all the other infinite universes without a Kang in it Would be perfectly fine But anyway, it's gonna destroy everything and then like they say the fracturing the war that or the damage Created the purple fart poodle and he used the purple fart poodle specifically to win the war destroy all the other Kings and then he isolated the one timeline and then he prunes off any bridges that comes off And so he has the the weapon to just beat all the other Kings already He technically doesn't even need the TVA. He's got the purple fire to do it for him And so already the whole premise of the TVA is contradicted because he doesn't even need it.   He found it? He found it in a Cracker, but where does it exist if it is space time? He bought it from the IE space and time shop.  Yeah We're asking you are the buffet because we're the nerd So we're asking the nerdy questions because this is the stuff which interests us when we're dealing with science fiction and fantasy and Superheroes and all this kind of stuff the writers are thinking How do we make still how do we make female low keys? I apologize Gary. How do we make female low key?  Yeah stuff is important Like severely so if your entire show is built on the foundation of the premise of these World-building elements and they haven't even thought it out of figure out where things come from how they work the implications and So we'll just spit it out like the writing of the world-building and the plot progression everything in Loki feels like they just Vomited out words on a script. I just like this is great and it's so It's oh bad and they I mean not every answer is in the comics But a lot of them are like for the portal thing that Moller brought up.   There's a long I won't say rich history of King King's not the greatest villain He's a purple guy with the green suit and he's like, you know, and he's fine in the comic books but he's I The way they translated him it was it was a mortis so They talked about Nathaniel Richards who's a descendant of Reed Richards Who in the 31st century?  Well, this is the thing.  He's like, yeah, I don't know that he found a smoke monster at each time Meanwhile, it's just like you know guys know that the world building can like facilitate all of your meaningful payoffs, right?  It's literally just they sit down and they talk at you for a while.  I'm done.    I mean the same damn thing They just shoved of the male character aside for the female character It was awful Absolutely awful.    You were we're almost done with the the wheel building that Kang explains at the end of episode six And then we're gonna go to episode one. So oh that make that makes sense. Yeah And that was the same Loki that was just eating bullets at the beginning of Avengers Yeah, the guy who was throwing knives everywhere Blasting people with a scepter and smiling The guy who could catch Hawkeye's arrow out of the air without even looking at it.  Oh, she'd have no you're right She'd have to go really fast to incredibly fast.  Yeah, I'm literally waiting for She's just Way into the Gobi desert and then went back to the portal if you're going slow Your head moves like 10 centimeters. She said everything so you need to slow down You would have to slow down. That's what would have to happen for me. Wasn't it funny when the Yeah, well the item could have been used, you know To come back later that was the setup for something later would know they did it for a cheap joke Oh, yeah, the caller on the little girl Caller by stamping on someone's foot because that's how like that's the level of training these time cops have apparently Well, like low key a demigod essentially wasn't able to get away from them Yeah, you know drinking didn't try to use his magic until he hit the trial that was the first time he tried to use She's the heart of the counts and Having experienced what he's just been through like being captured by the Avengers and bestied by them You'd think it would be kind of wary of humans or human No, I'd be like these guys aren't as weak as I thought they were I should probably be careful It's not well not not even like he watched them walk out of a portal from no way He's never seen that technology before and instead of being like whoa, what's this about? He just goes get out of my way Oh, no, yeah, I'm lucky glorious purpose a line that I didn't write Hey, man They got some mileage out of that life of the show like with our washing red your ledger is dripping just pillaging these great Yeah, to give it to give us some sense of structure, I'm just gonna say we don't we don't how we doing with Kang We is that it for the Just a bit too long didn't read is that Kang he created instrumental travel He met you met other Kang's they tried to kill each other one Kang Decided that he was gonna be the Kang to know me be only one and yeah They can be only one monster that each realities. Yeah, lucky something like that And somehow managed on the way to kill all the Kang it was irrelevant of the other Kang's He still decides what people get up to in the in the day-to-day like he's like yes, you will do this You will do this you will do that I have a little question about the logistics of this monster thing because like it seems like you can escape it with a conventional automobile I Think consumes entire Universities of reality really drive away from it with a car Yeah In the off-season or something is it just Consuming monster versus a wheeled boy Well, here's something that's important to remember we have to assume that 2012 earth Like with where Loki escapes got sent there which means that Thor Captain America Iron Man They got sent there and lost And we so maybe there's somewhere else on the planet fighting Yes Inside a glass jar or something like at one point when the camera pans on the ground Get to his hammer.  It drives me nuts so the Yeah, so understanding right like like Kang wants it so that if ever there's any kind of split they have it has to go and We open up with with an example of it and like I've seen people talk about this with mentioning But it seems like the show is broken from the start and even Loki himself brings this up And the show was a very bad way of trying to get around it. Loki picks up the tesseract Uses it. This is considered a Like a nexus point or whatever that he should not have done that and that has to be solved and it's like We're gonna talk about because I don't lead to another thing I guess Yes, that will create a branching reality that will end up resulting in another King like because King is very specific in episode 6 to establish that the other realities branching off if sole purpose of avoiding any other Kings being created I mean ignoring the fact that he could have just you know used his technology to open up a portal under the feet of these other Kings and get rid of them instead of Punishing innocent people and destroying entire realities are not you know all this horrific next level insanely evil stuff but he's an idiot and so he decides to Make the most convoluted system imaginable to try and solve these variants That would result in you Kang by creating the TVA which is amazing And yeah, and we will talk more about those things But I'm gonna try and this is a really big hole and I'm gonna try my best to paint the picture Oh very clearly, right? Yeah, I know there's so many of them. It's just like which one is this so Loki teleports with the the stone they grab him They drop the grenade and that will reset everyone back to where they're supposed to be sacred timeline wise and they tell us That that is the stone is on the floor not being used by Loki. I guess it's Loki doesn't touch it therefore Tony Stark and Cap never go back to the 70s and you might be thinking like well It's like so when they do that grenade that has to set everyone back which means The 70s thing can't possibly happen. It's my understanding. It only affects things in the immediate vicinity So it takes away the Tesseract and it wipes out the whole timeline back to Yeah, because you only see it having a limited area of effect I kind of assumed it just does whatever is in the vicinity and it doesn't affect so, you know Things another side of the planet where they describe them is reset charges prune the effective radius of a branches timeline allowing time to heal all of its wounds Well in episode 2 they specifically say it's a localized area effect Which is the contradiction to the effect you need Because if it's only a localized effect that means when they reset the desert that you know They took Loki from it wouldn't have affected New York where he disappeared from That would stuff up every end of what localized means does it just mean the planet like galactically What does it mean to be local does it mean like a hundred? You know square kilometers So honestly, I just assume I assume they knock out the branch like that's the idea Yeah, effectively they need to knock out the entire branch and that would also mean You're missing the point massively Where's female Loki come in it's the women On the subject of female Loki because obviously at one point she gets a whole bunch of these that she's collected Yeah, so presumably there's there's some purpose to like having more than one like it has a larger area of effect Or it's more intense or something. Well, she sends them to different time. That's right There's branches that are still because she stole that thing. They didn't destroy the branch, right? So those branches must have kept going Oh, oh, well, I don't remember they just they mine. Wait, are you saying why would they break because she steals them?  Because I agree to a degree like it.  Yeah But she was only do recently killing them. She was like six. Yeah. Yeah, so that well What if they broke one I they probably have to bring an extra one, but I don't know if they thought it would see I guess so. Yeah, the whole the whole point of this is like they didn't get here's your problem We're giving it way more thought than the writer's room ever did just in this last five minutes Oh, yeah, because they just as is right. They're like, how do we get it to female solo female Loki? Female solo will happen I kind of want to On the way too much coffee On the on the on the subject of like them going back in time to the 70s So now shout I know you talked about this because I watched your video when I was working on my endgame script How there are like sort of the the rules of time travel They're basically three rules There's like back to the future rules where the past and the future are like concurrent They sort of run together probably the most flimpy one Yeah, it's the worst Yeah, exactly even though I really like that's the future and then you've got like Terminator rules, which is alternate timeline basically you go back in time That's like a reset and then you just continue from there and then the immutable one where going back in time was like always happened So if you were like in 2010 and you went back to 1970 like chronologically you were already in 1970 Exactly, and you can only redo things that have already happened in the past Yeah, now if you want a good movie that handles that Predestination brilliant movie that does immutable time travel brilliantly So the problem is now endgame Contradicts itself as far as I'm concerned, but Loki makes it even more complicated and by complicated I mean completely dysfunctional because Because what we now realize is that everything is happening on one timeline or Alternatively every time they go back in the past they create a timeline, but that timeline is destroyed So how can they return the stones to the timelines where they got them? 2012 earth doesn't exist. It was destroyed All right Defenders of the show would say this is like the TVA allowed those variant timelines to exist for a long enough for Steve Rogers to return And then they destroyed that's what Well, a lot of questions one what what did Steve Rogers do? No, I know there aren't but but I'm gonna ask them anyway They're really important like the That's talking to the Hulk when she says if you take the time stone away You will doom our reality, right? And she says specifically you will do my reality by taking away our chief weapon against the forces of darkness And so that means it's not that the time so is busy It's just that they don't have it there to be able to fight Dormammu Which she knows is gonna happen in the future But the important takeaway in terms of the world building of a larger MCU is that alternate realities are Real and they are as concerned about their own reality as we would be in our main reality And so these are individuals with their own hope streams lives These are actual people as proven by Loki himself who was a variant You know being in the MCU now and he doesn't want to die And so every single pruning you see the TVA do is an act of unfathomable evil Where they just destroy an entire universe And so that universe let the dark that the ancient one was saying you'll doom our own universe Sorry, it's probably gonna be destroyed anyway even after they return the time stone because now it's a variant one And so the TVA is just gonna come wipe you out anyway So yeah, you were concerned about it, but it's screwed anyway I do like This is a point to talk because we're up to the time trap. We're kind of up to the the time travel rules But I figure it's worth like deep diving into how little sense this show makes at this point So we we have a lot of we have a lot of issues. So when we start with Loki This is what we learn. There is a sacred timeline There's one timeline and it sprawls from like the beginning of time until the end so like it sprawls from Before everything that happens in the MCU to even after stuff that happens like that we've seen at this point And the logic is That there is something called a nexus event which creates an alternate timeline because you did something differently Now, this is super awkward. What is what does that mean? What does it mean to make a different decision to the one that you actually made in the MCU? What does that mean?  It's like correct. Correct. No, correct. I You know A line that people would latch on to as the explanation and she says that The timeline or universe whatever is fighting to break free of the TVA's control And that's what's causing all these Uh different variations and stuff and if people and like they will say time is represented as a circle King shows it and also when they in discount Hogwarts is the timeline circling around them And so every time the timeline replays on itself There's a chance of a a variation happening or a different choice of you know Someone's thing and that Sylvia's saying it's unnatural to be restricted into the singular timeline And so it's always trying to make whatever the word unnatural even means Exactly Yeah, exactly. Well, you know what seems natural Loki picking up the Tesseract when it falls exactly there is There is such a Horrifying moral implication about this because by saying that that is a variation Which is the most obvious action that Loki would do preservation Yeah, exactly shows that that means the main MCU timeline is the result of the TVA Always forcing things to conform to the way they want Not the natural course of events that people would naturally choose if they were given their own free will That is a horrifying reality Like yeah Taken that though would would people not point out that that Kang Planned all of that so that his path would For him to be involved with the TVA and be apprehended as a variant when in reality That's exactly what Kang wants him to do That's probably something we should have mentioned I guess in the the initial wheel building So technically everything up to the point that Sylvia decides to kill Kang was planned by Kang And therefore you cannot say it's a contrivance in any way shape of form or a whole All that it doesn't make sense because he the entire concept is a contriance, but well, and so this is the thing It's like we're not operating on that because I don't want to treat the MCU likes Kang's But it is that's what it is As well, so I'm saying that's that's it then you know stream over we've done it. That's that's all you can say So I would I would rather I would rather talk about the show Not assuming that that Kang literally made every single decision because I just think that well It just makes the whole this is the thing if someone was in chat right now That's the sad reality of the show The show got to the final episode and one said everything's a waste of time True, but the thing is if you said to me Loki should have you know defeated Big big big guard or the people on the train and stuff. I should be like, well, you know Kang didn't want to Mm-hmm. Like we could do Yeah, what I'm saying is that's all true But now we're gonna move to gear two and actually talk about these things as though Kang didn't force them to happen Or that they just don't make sense with what we understand to be the case in this world But hang on, hang on before we move on with the right then you mean essentially well Before we move on to step two if this was Kang's plan his master plan to get Loki and Sylvie Into his discount Hogwarts. That is one of those most stupid friggin plans Like there are so many chances of failure and chance along that entire process where Are there's it? How was there any transfer failure when he controls everything? Yeah Well, it's showing that he can't control people's actions to the extent that if they make something You know contrary to what he wants. He has to prune them. He can't just Force them If Loki did anything that we're because his life was at risk keeps at times He could have been killed multiple occasions, right?  It's like if you get killed you just This is why this is why I feel like if we bring this up It's like it makes the conversation entirely pointless like Kang made everything happen the way that he wanted it to happen Exactly to the point where so Sylvie kills him and now we can talk about things being meaningful in the MCU Which is so fucked Everything up until this point all the decisions that made yeah, I think Friday night tights But like if someone was to talk about like one of their favorite moments being iron man proving to cap that he would Sacrifice himself to save the world when he gets that new through the portal Yeah, well, someone could just be like, why do you find that moment meaningful?   Yeah Because they haven't thought this through remotely. Yep. This is what our stories just never work So infinitely complex that you just can't manage them in a dramatic way that makes sense Well, in the second episode where they base where they actually said so there's no free will yeah, um Not only that but uh miss minutes describes the universe as predetermined to the in the explanation video like yeah They are explicit in this show. There's not many much room worse than determined. It's predetermined. It's worse Yeah, yeah, and so If if i'm like why the fuck wasn't Loki using his magic you can just be like what kang didn't want him to so And the the the horror of this is on multiple levels So not only can you not attribute any good action to anyone because you've no idea if kang was the one who forced to happen But it also means every single horror bad thing murder genocide Most likely is kang forcing it to happen because one he either forced it to happen Or if anyone was going to choose to not actually have that genocide happen That would be a variant and that would be bad and he would need it to happen to have his perfect timeline because the perfect timeline Is predicated upon the fact that all the horrors that have existed in all of the mcu Must happen according to how he prescribes and so he either Forced these genocides to happen or will force them to happen if anything was to cause them not to happen and so He is it is just unbelievably horrified. Yeah, we don't know What is system really amounted to other than stopping variant kang like we don't know when he's deciding say for example Which coffee or tea that frees and drink we have no idea how he does that he just Yeah, he's sort of we never get to find out but he reassures us That it was like it was for it was for reason it was for good reason And you know it all seems just purely arbitrary Like there doesn't seem to be any real reason for it and you might think like oh, you know, maybe there is a regranary It's like I don't believe him. He literally got bored.      How are they gonna go against me? Yeah, like me in this room.  What the fuck's this all about?  Let them fall through into a time loop or a prism done Problem solved and it's already showing you can open up portals under your feet because Loki does it to save himself And um, and lady whatever and teleports them to their death planet You can open um tiny portals too.   He's never been to work.   Great. Oh, this is this is some of the purists Like this and black widow man coming out right next to each other and two characters. I really like of the mcu Are they both been butchered?   No repercussions for her. She's a good person now A woman in Star Trek Picard murdering her boyfriend because someone says Oh, he might make some more robots or something and then they're all going it's fine Don't worry about it.  It's cool.    She's sort of said, sorry, so Did she even though the thing is in Avengers? They make it very clear the and Loki makes this very clear that there is no chance You are cleaning your record and that Hawkeye is no no better than you now if they told me What he's referring to is where she like maybe blew up a building and then there was people in there That she didn't know about because I'd be like, oh, well, that's Hmm. So didn't know about it. That has something, you know, yeah, like this I think it's it makes sense. How we how harshly he condemns her if the the thing we're talking about is This is the thing. I guess I'm making a defense of this. So we'll have to see how this goes The um If you have a history of a woman who has been born and raised to be a soulless killer Under like an indoctrination she manages to sort of vaguely slip out And then she's given a chance to escape by shield But the only way you can do it is if you can prove it by killing drake of And she decides this is this is the one part that's a week to me She decides the best way is to blow up his daughter because she knows that he would be with her Or or that she'll blow it like that shield was completely okay with this Out of infinite ways you can confirm drake off to be in the building she decides to go with the one that's going to kill That's what I was going to say. It's not actually I I don't I don't know that it's out of her wheelhouse to to Uh Decide that a child can be collateral damage for a for a mission when she's that early on in her development Because if you watch the scene obviously she's Immediately regretted the decision and then she treats it as though It's the thing that she has to make up for her entire life And loki uses it to say that you'll never be able to redeem yourself for that Like I think that there's something there that's working instead of it being Because i'm assuming you guys want to reduce her uh his sin, right? You want to make it a little less, uh explicit I guess Well to me because that was the point of her defection that I would have felt that her standards and moralities must have Progress somewhat because she's now wanting to join the good guys and her act for joining the good guys Is an act of going out of her way to murder an innocent girl Oh, that's awful That is awful. That's the thing. I the only thing that I don't like it logistically In terms of like, how is this the best method to kill drake off? I don't really see how that's the case um But i'm not i'm not against the idea that we could contrive a situation where she had to choose um You know completing the mission at the cost of a child's life or letting him escape for possibly forever and losing a chance to Defect to the west But I could go with you there My issue is is how easily avoidable it would be there are a thousand different ways You could confirm him to be in a building Then choosing the one that's gonna kill it.  Sorry. It's hard to wince enough to get a scratch What's even worse is if if you're telling me that shield of that desperate It's like they didn't even want a body.  I'm gonna walk away now There's no way this is gonna fail. Ah dang it Yes, uh marvel seems to be going out of its way to assassinate so many characters and Loki is just another like oh, he is So awful is thoroughly ruined really his character His initial capture wouldn't have happened if he used one illusion, which he always does So it's just like so that sucks and then when he's captured he doesn't try to use his magic for ages Which is like the first thing he would do He doesn't try to hit anyone I'd be using that's it all the time And I think part of the most frustrating thing is sir as I think for you mentioned just like he's cooperating or Shad is it like one of the guys he keeps cooperating with everybody You'd think after being beaten by the avengers, right? He would be in the state of like no effs given you get in my way I'm just gonna kill you.  Who are you?  This is like gags at any cost Yeah, just throw the jokes at the audience don't think about it. Just laugh and move on and see this is the thing When you rewatch the show as much as a lot of defenders of show like to say it was it was when he watched All of the MCU that changed his character. He was different already Before he watched the MCU he was still a Weird vision. Well, it's not himself um So yeah, I think we're gonna have to go for a free for all at this point and everyone can jump in whatever they want Because like it's just so hard to keep track of exactly what to talk about But um, I because I just saw the visual now. I want to mention it What is the point of the trials for the variants? Anything you could say for them to for them to decide.  What does that even mean? What does it mean? Maybe that's what they determine if they're gonna recruit them or prune them Well, but the thing is they don't know that that's a thing, right?  Why is he wiping out every single form of life across the entire body? Because it's because he is it he is an astronomical moron like that's the answer Like his plan the purpose of the tva and how they function to achieve the goal of Not having Kang's come about is unbelievably dumb I cannot pull it's it hurts my brain to think that someone thought this was a logical way to Yeah In that first episode there's that guy from Goldman Sachs like my dad works for Goldman Sachs and they prune him for not taking a ticket But they were going to prune them anyway like what Exactly We're talking about the trial like They already know literally every single action and decision and things you've ever said in your whole life Like they know everything about you there is nothing you can answer or say to them that would change their mind about you being a variant And Loki makes the best argument that they've probably had he says no I'm not a variant the avengers time traveled and fucked everything up for you guys Which by the way, you might be like how does he even know this? It's like he could smell toady stocks cologne twice All right Like wow that's amazing because of course it actually is Because it's essentially saying that Loki has been fully familiar with time travel and that he's aware that it is even possible It's like oh, okay. Where and when did he learn this? Tony start wasn't the joke that Tony Stark had a a tin of axe No, yeah, of course But the thing is Loki was able to smell two of them and conclude from that that the avengers time traveled to stop him Yeah, Loki the axe is actually very popular indeed It's amazing that he concluded that two men smelling of the same flavor is is not actually that uncommon Like a one Eric s brandia. Yeah, that's a surely no one could buy another bottle of that cologne and it must be How else could you explain it? And that's the thing he makes a really great argument and then all they say back to him is no that was supposed to happen You weren't supposed to do what you did and so it's like if you know that why am I here? Like what what is the point of any of this?  Of course. I'm not but by yours. I am so there's just nothing I can do Why would you put a six-year-old girl in front of the court that you've just dragged from Asgard? What are you gonna do? Well, that's the thing that I was like what made her a variant they sentence him to a We don't know The thing is being a Loki get but why did it take six years for them to go? There is a couple of explanations for this Well, why is it that she thought of self-magic? Then we'll tell them It's established in the show that A branching timeline can be created that takes longer for the tv a to Detect and that's shown by old Loki when he says his branching event was when he survived Thanos But then he went onto the planet and lived until old age And it's only when he got lonely and tried to visit Thor that the tv a detected him And so that kind of establishes But he went to like a different planet and purposefully Oh, yeah I'm not saying this is a satisfying explanation Yeah, it's not a satisfying explanation But the answer of how it would have to work according to the rules that they've set up is that I don't know. Uh, whoever conceived this female Loki did a different sex position to cause the uh The the combination of DNA to have the female and then she was bought it He was bought as a female this time and it wasn't pruned until She started playing with the dogs many years later What was the variant leave the heck the husband then when he ejaculated? Yeah, that would be the next point Is the is the variant for um, Loki for dropping the tesseract in front of him But no it was Loki's fault for picking it up and so As to which is truly comparable literally they came after Loki like a couple seconds after he picked it up That's how quickly that splintered and significantly I guess and you know about that Disatisfying explanation, which by the way, it's not your fault. Shout out just the shows. Um, The show is crappy contradicting well when uh, when they tell us that anything that happens in an apocalypse means that It won't be registered because it'll never create a splintering timeline because everything dies there Anyway, we're gonna get to that in a second because that's not true But secondly them holding hands overpowered That makes no The rules they established Loki had sat down and for some unknown reason just turned to To female Loki and said You're amazing Yeah, that is the classic benchmark for like woke writing whereas like you have to constantly lavish praise on your female characters Like literally tell them how great they are Because they can't Through actions or anything you have to like really spell it out to the audience That's quite lucky because they never do anything by their actions Female Loki never did anything by her actions to show that she was Great or amazing all she did was be obnoxious and Tell Loki to shut up and then great Yeah, she basically yeah, she's able to tell him how useless he is like at every possible opportunity Yeah Oh, but she could enchant guys and then and then Loki could enchant because he had the power all along It's within you We're the same also every Loki here is an enchanting thing Just get all of those and you take like half a second to enchant Goliath Not Goliath should have taught ritchity grunt. He could have enchanted like the whole universe and power Yeah, do it.  Yeah, he needed out.    Well, so the I think I don't point You're leading towards because the issue of so the logic of the show is oh if you're an apocalypse everybody dies So like you haven't changed anything.  When you see them monitoring the the sort of positions of the timelines and how close they are to creating a new branch There seems to be a certain amount of of variants. There's a certain amount of play to it that they can accept That doesn't that doesn't create a whole new branch I'm just I'm trying to like I'm trying to work within the logic of whatever the show creates Like the example you gave was a localized It may be slightly positioned different positions that might not be enough to like go out with the tolerance that they've defined They were able to There is a defense Like people Yeah, sorry people defending the show Have tried to propose this that you the tv a can allow Different timelines how long as they don't lead so long as they don't lead to an alternate kang And so at nexus events a nexus event is like this is this is headcanon It isn't confirmed with the show so I I don't accept this But that's what they say is that a nexus event is specifically when a timeline becomes So variant enough or variant enough to the main timeline that a new kang or different kang will result if that timeline continues on if It's it's dumb and it's contradictory because I don't think that I I would argue they have they didn't say that specifically. I mean like no, they did it's not in the show Yeah, the problem is like, but this is the defense that you know people in this show have tripped I don't even think this headcanon can work though because I don't see how the timeline The existence of timelines is based on kang the existence of timelines would be based on just different choices that anybody Yeah, yeah, it would it would but Yeah, yeah, but the timelines that the tv a are only interested in are the ones that would lead to a variant king in the future It wouldn't be one timeline It wouldn't be a matter of you generate a new kang the second You are incompatible with one other time like so they say the sacred timeline the second He puts a footprint in Pompeii that wasn't there before you've now got two timelines Yes, yes, um, and so he he only wants the the timeline that will result in his creation If it leads to a variant kang different to him That's when it's a nexus event needs to be proved according to this Now we've got a brand new problem that the icon except that I can't accept that the existence of kang Would be like it's there nobody else who would also potentially want to create multiverse wars. Is there not another person?  They can't stop it. Why? Yeah, why yeah, good question And it's the the contradictory world building is absolute garbage because in episode two They actually say quite clearly that there's almost a time limit where their variants happens They have a certain amount of time before they can prune it before it hits the next event And they can't reset it But then they show in episode five that old Loki created a variance where he survived Thanos and lived for years Like multiple years on a planet and that timeline existed for ages And then it was pruned and way later on and so not only Are they like Deliver the rules of their world building horribly in bad exposition Then they can't even obey those rules and they end up contradicting them in different episodes It's I don't know how they fucking obey their own rules It's phenomenal May I say that they say that the grenades reduced the prune timeline down to the original sacred one And then they have them generate timelines in a later episode like that is amazing You guys just you established it as x and then it did y. It's like you don't even pay attention They do that I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure there's a way you could reverse the properties of a gun So it heals people when you They have heal guns in uh in killing floor two they file all needles. Yeah pretty good even shotgun variants are great in shotgun heal So constantly when we discuss the show as it goes on um I don't think the writers even like they have no idea what they've done They just write things There's no there's I there doesn't seem to be any recognition As to the gravity of the kind of impact it's had on this world Yeah, totally That each episode was written by a different person So I'm gonna go ahead and guess that when any of us talk about any of our favorites from the mcu Like be whatever movie you choose. Nobody is gonna be like have you thought about this movie in context of kang?   We're doing it with low key.  This is why I find it baffling because even rick and morty Usually try to have fun with their concepts and they recognize the repercussions this show Explicitly hazard wilson say oh, you know it free wills not existed is like an oversimplification And then all we get well in episode in episode six he himself then says we have to give people back free will It's amazing and the only reason he cares is because his life was on the line Yeah, no He says once he saw what was at the end of time He's now decided that like what the tva does is is unacceptable. It's like wow.  Yeah, I'm fine with I'm fine with melting them on the spot But if it turns out they actually go somewhere else to get devoured by a monster Well, that's just that's just not right Yeah, well and apparently the pruning hurts too because every time it happens to someone they go It looks painful Doesn't look pleasant.  Really? Yeah, because we saw the text like, oh, yeah, but what if it's actually bad though? It's like, oh Yeah, I might think about this and then in the same episode Um mobius was like, okay, I will trust you with this one. It's like, why why was that so easy?  I think he says at one point I mean when they went when when mobius and uh I was forget the name row row something that I was Ramon Ramona Yeah, yeah, when they talk about oh, yeah eons of friendship.    Like, oh, yeah. Hmm.   They've been working in the same offices doing the same job for thousands of years Like what would that do to your psyche? Surely you would drive yourself insane from that They don't even know what fish are Yeah, but what jet skis are I guess the desk workers don't know what anything is. Yeah. Yeah, which to me is you don't need people Stones are don't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they know what those are I it's people like that's what those are you hear about this and you're like So the first thing you guys probably should have done is did robots not people because it sounds like these people would go insane Like if they're actually people and then you're like wait, uh, they probably shouldn't have stored everything On fucking paper actually wait, but they don't because miss minutes has a digital file And she can jump into any technology she wants and talk to people as a hologram You're like, but wait, we also see them literally moving boxes of papers in elevators to study But also they have that giant robot that can vaporize clothing as the first step for when you're captured But then they also have a tv that looks like it's literally from the 60s to display the sacred timeline But then they also have these These devices that can help travel through time and space and they have little little pokey sticks that vaporize you But then they also store the footage of the sacred timeline on film. Just like I can't deal with this Yeah, this is goes back to what I was saying earlier if this was some kind of cute nexus continuum type place Where like everything is just kind of symbolic and what you're actually seeing isn't real It's just your brain interpreting it. Okay, fine. Then that works. That'll be great. Yeah, that would be a fun little interpretation But that's never established like the the way the show presents it is straight up Like this is how they actually operate. They are working on these old-fashioned computers Mobius and Loki have to figure out where The the variant is and they spend the whole episode looking through papers All look coffee episode evidence. You know why the only reason it was done because clearly, you know An ultra futuristic where everything was like holograms and stuff would be much more practical for this kind of thing They did it because they wanted that quirky cool 1960s aesthetic That was literally the only thought that they put into that. Yeah, that's how this show was put together That's the thing you I just think that's supposed to separate the the craft from the ideas right because like if so It was just like wouldn't it be cool if it was 60s and then you're just like, oh, how are you going to justify that? And then they look at you confused Yeah Who needs to justify it? It'll be fun. Won't it? It's fun. It's pretty good.  You're like, yeah Isn't that depressing? So many people love this show. So they're just gonna we're gonna keep getting this crap Oh, look if if the mcu can just pick up its history shred it into pieces and pistol over it And then the fans clap they can do anything And I think people loving this show is just bullshit anyway I think the vast majority are probably contrarians for a start Because I doubt very much these people are gonna go back and rewatch this show Over and over and over.  It's just some content They've seen tom holland they've gone. Yay tom holland and not tom holland tom hiddleston Okay, tom hiddleston, uh, oh look fall out and that's it and then they're gone. Yeah, great your show ever now They're waiting for you know Absolutely right the format for the mcu is always the next thing. It's always the next thing It's never an appreciation of the thing that Yeah, yeah, it's just the next thing what's coming next The ultimate test for me would be the the people who are desperate in hype to watch season two Tell me what happened in season one And they'll be like Well, the time travel stuff can't like I remember most of it like it doesn't matter It's like dude, it's 10 out of 10 guys Okay, that series is a 10 out of 10.  Oh Not again And yeah, so this subject we've covered a couple of times But I mean it's probably probably worth time talking about Loki watching the mcu And what does everybody think about this and how what it means to change a character from x to y in a couple of seconds It's still great to see him have a good pant waiting cry. Yes Because again Again, how do you devalue a character just watching breakdown in tears seeing himself See watching himself lose It was so cheap right and what's also annoying if they really wanted the Loki at the end of endgame to come back They actually reveal they have the mechanism in the tva to do it where they can send him into a simulation of his past And just send him back into you know Where is there and relive all the events in the simulation and they could do it in a Like click of a finger and he comes out like he just was dead at Thanos and done All right, you could hand wave it off that easily because they show they have the mechanism there But they're that dumb that they don't realize or extrapolate. Oh, we've done this How could we use it in other ways in other areas? I actually want it said because like this is what I was saying as well as everyone else I think is that they tried to steal Infinity war dead Loki and put him here in an instant. Yes.  He just went destiny fulfilled.  Yeah, how people work. It's not. Yeah Nebula haven't the evil and nebula haven't lived it. Exactly. Exactly.   What you want to do right now is the wrong thing. We'd all be like, hmm I'm not sure like I might do this to If it was coming from an unreliable source like the tva which clearly have their own motives, of course you would be You'd be like That's the thing you all you have to do is Loki because he's Think what what possible reason could they have to show me this and it's like Mobius has already said They want him to work for him and he wants to trust him. So he wants him to prove to him that he's a good guy Like the remember.  Like that's what he said Just one attention, uh, yeah, so annoying because Loki. I'm sorry. Loki's not weak. Like he's weaker than like a Thor Sure, but like he's not weak He's a fracking god and and that's something they were Really hesitant to say at first remember asgar was just Super technology, right? But later on they wanted to amp everybody up.  No, I'm sorry someone with his like physiology would not get drunk on a couple of glasses of champagne Wow Woman it's written by women as a woman.  That's why he's weak That's why he sings and dances Those women Yeah, men do not sit around and talk about what love is Conversations between between Mobius and Loki about Loki's feelings Because it takes so long to arrive at the point. It's just endlessly asking him like what is your motivation? What is you know, what is what what drives you?  They're doing it.  I hate it. So when um, Loki tries to convince them in the um, like the carnival But whatever place that I forget where it was like unfair Yeah, so he tries to convince them that if they step out of the tent they will die Yeah, they kind of and then like, you know, it gets a little bit sinister and he's trying to explain it And then Mobius just goes he's lying everyone can leave and it's just like Oh So I was gonna say that's annoying But then the one-two punch of Mobius sees him later and Loki's hopping around Mobius trying to explain. Hey, I only lied Yeah, he's like I I didn't I didn't really lie.  What have you done?   I'll follow you I'll I'll be right behind you never He's saying you're you're amazing and you're wonderful as well Yeah, I miss the Loki that whenever there is a threat of any kind the first thing he does in reaction to it is smile just like Let's do it And but the point one of the big major point beat points of Loki's um Uh, you know turning turning back was uh, except in Odin as his father, you know, it was always Oh, yeah to Thor your I not Odinson your Odinson and it was like that that and then At the final stages he says to to Thanos. I am Loki Odinson And Thor realizes that they are united together And then in this show, it's just let's talk about my mum. What's the thing that his office complete? I'm sorry. My boy. We can't end stories. His office completed Hang on. Drinko, what were you saying?  Yeah, you'll never be a god.  Yeah, no resurrections Let's just Well that line has already aged like milk. I mean all of them It's age like it's age like semen It's age like semen on a countertop man. It's We It's no good. Also just just on the note of resurrections, right? Because they've introduced this technology and now that there is an infinite multiverse All right, you can bring back anyone you want just hop over to another reality That's certainly slightly different to yours and grabs like how do you come back now? You're like done. They like They could bring back anyone they want from an alternate reality. Oh, yeah, and this this might jump into the Oh, yeah, nothing matters.  Oh, well, there's mutants now because the multiverse Well, no, they already did that. I've already confirmed it. Yeah Well, yeah And plus we already have a lot of examples of it But a lot of the new characters that they introduce our X-Men We're in the comics. They used to be dudes and then they just turn them into girls They're just so swap agendas. So you already have X-Men in the uh, in the MCU. Oh, I get it. I was so lost for a minute that I got you Yeah, no, no Um X ringy It's funny that you say, uh, they'll use this to introduce. It's like you could just stop right there. They'll use this to introduce everything Like there's just there's nothing they can't do now Oh, yeah, because you could just end your entire first season of your new show with a massive ridiculous exposition dump of the entire history of your cinematic universe and That's it. That's all you have to do. It's it's it requires no finesse. No talent Nothing just just explain it at the end and they got away with it The people eat it ate it up. I said it last night They could just have a fantastic four movie where a giant galactus is at a giant desk And he just tells us how he eats planets and they they could just do a whole movie like that My god, oh god My grandmother's house and discovered that I could eat space and time because I saw a blueberry pie And this doesn't make any less sense than anything else.  He's overweight.  And of course, uh, read richards will talk to him. It'll be like, look man I understand. I look all right. It's okay And galactus explains like I'm not evil. I am necessarily evil. I have to eat these planets I'm part of nature, but nobody understands it and then he starts crying That is He was crying the whole scene just lots of it but like increases speed, you know here and there huge giant tears falling down On this purple suit It'll be a woman a black just be a woman Galactress Galactress, yes What's amazing is that by so you have the the last two episodes sort of but I guess sort of maybe two and a half or whatever Um, you introduce hang the the ultimate big bad of everything. I don't know how you can ever possibly top kang Um, no way, uh, it's all nonsense. Anyway, but you also have a lieth Right and those just get dealt with kind just like that Yeah, these these rapid introduction and then dealing with this insanely powerful Being just just like that and it's done and it's over and then we can just move on Well, like you could be forgiven for Like just forgetting that the cloud monster Existed and was doing what it was doing for how long it was doing it and how insanely impactful that is to the universe But I was like nah, I just I can't remember what Well stream it was on but it was like if if captain america 4 is about falcon doing his doing his little do Like he's he's beating some bad guys in some country or whatever for some reason. We just said they're like, dude Kang like in the multi Like yeah, how do we go back?  That's so broken It really is nothing Nothing And it's mostly for jokes like a lot of this show tries to be funny and it's really cringe It's certainly like, oh man, this is not the thing you should joke about you're ruining everything Lull infinity stones in a drawer Watch black widow next guys And we gotta pop the black widow, yeah Do you remember one of those but I guess if y'all want to turn it into a joke, that's fine When uh, when logan's gonna go on his first mission and uh, uh mobius I think it's a second mission. Sorry. It's when he's figured something out. Mobius is like here's your knives And then the the lady is like no, he's not allowed his knives I'm just like since when the if he can conjure a blanky, can he please conjure a knife? Like yeah, he does conjure nice though.  It's like why would the loki's all about pride? Like he's obsessed with this image. Why would he do this?  I'm trying female loki. Come on.  Yes Or a bowl or something. Yeah, you remember in the in the fair the we've shown the scene How how they are all defeated is the most standard action stuff ever she stabs them. You're like, oh That's it Remember she sets them on fire. She pours oil on the floor and lights it when they arrive. So are you kidding me?   The show is incredible. That's amazing That's what it's there for that's exactly what it's there for us. Yeah This is uh What's going on? Well, you know when you um in the episode two when you first grabbed something with telekinesis to defend himself I was like, wait, has he ever had telekinesis? Yes, same I didn't know he had that power Well people have tried to um Justify it when he's in the prison in for the dark world and he learns that the mother is dead And he does this wave of power which pushes everything back But I've always seen that as literally a wave of power of just energy being expelled pushing things back Not actual telekinesis where he's able to grab something and pull it towards it I was about to say those two things aren't the same, right? Like we can't even exactly they're not the same Like Loki has already been presumed that he has some type of energy that he can project and shoot and stuff But uh, what telekinesis and then the fact that he could stop a falling building The amount of force that he can produce with his telekinesis. He could literally rip people into pieces if he wanted to It's unbelievable And people go back and think why would it have been handy for him to have the power to move buildings with his mind or something to the side? It's like, thank you That's gonna hit a ship that they can get on or a hulk. That's yeah, like if a creature Some description was attacking him.  He'll use his telekinesis. He's like, I'm sorry. What? What did sylvie teach him that too? apparently well See that's another thing that was before he had properly met her which happened to be uh Like they figured out where she was at the right time and then they went there and she enacted her plan Like the exact same time they happened to arrive and they only did that Because of the uh, the gum they found with that girl in the in the first scene if you remember where they mentioned the devil um Yeah, what they want us to think in terms of timeline is sylvie went to a place killed some some people Then she gave the gum to a kid just casually because she had the gum on her from when she went to the supermarket Toilet didn't choked in the cause day. Yeah, uh, timeline. Okay, probably Um, and so mobius Mobius cross-referenced the gum with apocalyptic events and that's how they found her.  I just want to eat. They thought I was starving. They were like, I don't want to choose something exactly My saliva glands, which makes me more hungry I think the writers thought that was genius that they were like she would have gone to the supermarket She may have picked up some stuff.  That's g. Yes.  You just sit there like it's called low key I I've got a question as well But these apocalyptic events that you can hide out in right because she mentions at various points that she's Got favorite ones that she goes to like she's been to the same ones multiple times But I always wonder like, well, okay How are you doing that because aren't you going to bump into other versions of yourself because presumably These pocalypsies are time limited like the the convenience store. That's just getting destroyed by like a tornado or something, isn't it? That's like one night basically you can hide there So mega nerd answer right here technically actually right You can't change the past in the mcu like a take that the time travel they established is alternate reality so if you go to the past you create an alternate reality because you're there and And then if you go to the future of that future and you go to the past you could run to yourself But if you return to the future of the future you came from and go to the past You would just enter into another version of the past where you weren't present in and you couldn't create essentially an infinite amount of Variances where you were not present in because you could hop back into the timeline that you came from Which I think is it holds entirely with what they say in this show Which is that if you turn up in the past as long as you don't do anything it'll be fine Which is not true Turning up already changes that you've you started that according to it a little I'm still a little confused on the alternate reality if we're in one sacred timeline So there's alternate realities and there's timelines So that is it all in that one sacred are all the alternate realities within the sacred timeline And are they all going at the same speed? The show is unclear. I actually had a dimension in there as well Yeah I've been having a really long ongoing debate with a mate on game Tacky on if it's multiple timelines or one timeline My best understanding of it going off everything is that there is only one timeline Only one original big bang events from the creation of the sacred timeline kang got rid of all other Dimensions or parallel realities or whatever and then he created his perfect timeline and he says it by saying Yeah, don't even ask. He did it with the Giant dimension heart poodle. Yeah, well We're talking about parallel realities and alternate when I say alternate dimension. That's not a mamu.   That's its own kind of thing with uh different alternate realities yourself They're only Alternate realities that are branching off of this first the sacred timeline thing But as to how many branches it allows to run concurrently for temporary amounts of time to allow Sylvia old Loki. We don't know it's it's very unclear Seems like they just randomly choose that amount depending on what they want at the time That's that'll be my theory Which by the way, yeah, we can talk about that a bit for a bit if you guys want um, I think Uh, we said it before and I really I'm not joking. Richard. He Grant was the best part of this whole show He had a complete storyline Phenomenal acting and he actually had to pay off that my heart was like What what's going on? He was supposed to be a gag. He was supposed to be a gag.   Uh-huh.  Can we have any other Loki? I hate Loki at home I think the scene where all the different loki's get into a big brawl with each other was like the point where It just transitions into full and complete mockery of Loki as a character Yes, it's not even portrayed as this epic clash or anything.  This is so lame Like yeah, it's it's never for any kind of reason or anything Yeah, then And then the locus we get for this uh one episode or the two episodes Oh here you want to come with us?  We like it here. It's like I don't This hellscape. That's a dump. You want it. That's your home. Yeah, wouldn't you rather literally go anywhere anywhere else? Yeah, yeah, no It's fine. We've been here for a while though. He like that doesn't We know what you're doing. Yeah, but you can't do that and have like a better life Where you don't have to run away from the script calls for us to leave We were only paid for one episode. Yeah, we gotta go now You can't afford rickety ground for any more than that. Last thing when he got eaten I was just like, oh, I mean, yeah, all right You know, not just for the sacrifice and everything it worked. It's just that like, oh He's gone. I'm not gonna be able to be entertained by this I got more satisfaction out of rickety grand laughing in the face of death than I had Anything in the whole show I just I just like it was it was a it was building my investment up in a really small way and he's gone already And I was like, no I we all knew he was going to last Because you know, this is the thing if the whole show were about him Just be like, let's never gonna happen.  I'll take it over the drab suit that Loki was through the whole thing Yeah, yeah, I'd wear that over his beige fucking ripped muddy But as he said though as Loki as Loki did say to uh, female Loki at the end I just Want you To be all right Yeah combo that lineup with you know, Loki I don't know that this will work and then he goes if you go I go Are we back to teal or masters of the If someone said if you saw those lines out of context said who said these in the MCU I feel like you you would say Loki like after the 100 other names you said And all the girls looked away from their phone at that scene and went You know, it's the bit as well where they're sitting together Going like oh, it's cold Yeah, yeah, let's talk about What what where does Loki come from No, he's a sun giant from the planet of flames and he's cold, okay Frost giant that got cold. I cover like the first significant use of his illusions is to get himself a blankie. I can't believe Why did you do this to us?  They sat down and said, okay We need to cuck Loki at every turn.  She would complain about being cold But like she would think there was nothing I can do about it And then wouldn't you know he conjures a blanket to keep her warm and that's a Sign that he's doing something nice for her.  She does that I had a Does anyone ever left any of her jokes, sir? Well, Gary's got he plays some of them in his his Loki video he put out yesterday and Christ they all fall flat. There's nothing Nothing funny about her. Yeah Often the fact that she's employed.     It's not like he had to arrive at this point He's already made that realization about who and what he was. Yeah, but it's just like we're in at home again It's a different writer and nobody's reading each other's scripts.  It's the 12 minute mark of the episode.    She was defeated by a child and so she trained her entire life This became like super buff and Like no child's getting the better of me now And I hate the glow sticks in terms of just like it's so hard to lose when you have that because you have to touch them And like they do these ridiculous motions where they easily countered and then hit and then they lose it I imagine if they imagine if they fired a beam or something that pruned people That breaches the multi-universe accord of only allowing sticks to be used in battle Yeah, when when they go find a robot tva guys The actual lizards and they start fighting and they don't use the the melty side.  I suppose it depends on what species you are, but like the stabby side is more lethal potentially You've got a chance to survive if you hit with the The glow stick because you could just have to get into a car and drive away from the dog because we're bored But if the stabby bit gets you no you could die you could hemorrhage and I don't know that's bad shit, man Yeah, you know To bring it back a little bit with the with the variants I find it funny that the most efficient way to control all of this would be to open a little portal drop a Grenade through to every timeline that's splintering Instead they go and try and find the variant of that timeline to bring them in to ask them if they did what they already know They did like I know we went over this kind of it's just it still baffles me that the most efficient way Is to just teleport a grenade in there and that's it Ask if they're guilty when they don't even know that they're playing a game that they could be Guilty of is like but but I just put I just put two lumps of sugar in my coffee That's all I did is like, ah, there he is the admission of guilt He's done it in it. He is a destroyer of worlds You will lead to the rise of the new king What now? Yeah, I'll put one sugar in next time. Just let me go back I'm so sorry I barely woke up. I so don't know if I'm actually A family will miss me not for long Am I still dreaming? This is all a bit weird No, you have all this technology and you have to send people in to prune the timelines Can't you just prune them?  Yeah, apparently. He's just a guy.  I guess it's outside of time and space. Oh, I hate it when they say, you know Aging aging I guess doesn't work there. But yeah, like he must have some concept of the passage of time or events or something The space outside of time and space But there are things and they occur They do yeah, and it's like You know There is the flow of time because objects move and people talk to each other and you know We find out that the the tv is all a part of the timeline too Like it all had to run a particular way according to kang's vision.  It's true. I swear No, yeah, yeah. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. This is real No, it's not kang. Stop it. No, you stop it. I talked about this Stop I do want to make sure we don't forget to mention the uh, loki's very significant concern for the lives of the people on lamentus Yeah, oh, yeah, loki is he's quite the philanthropist The um, because if we had cap going through there and it's like we got to escape and he's like these people They have to get out of here. You know, we have to save them. We're all just sitting like, mm-hmm. Yeah cap Yeah, but loki's saying it. We're like the stop what it's not right now Two days ago you would saying that they've all needed to kneel before you and that they're all beneath you and he killed like what? He killed all the shield pretty much. Yeah Without a second thought because uh, he's their glorious purpose. You know, he's gonna lead them Yeah, because because thorg says he's my brother and then this scarlet scarlet yansen says he killed 80 people in one day He's adopted That's 80 people 80 shield agents in one day You know, you can say that line now People would be offended. You might offend some people who are adopted. So we can't put that in the script anymore Shouldn't have been adopted. They're already on. Yep broken family Unloved You know what e-fap chats adopted we keep them here. We look at them They had to find out sooner or later Chad, it's fine. I got you. Give me a hug. Come on. You're metal biological children. Don't worry We still love you all the same But a little almost a little bit less.  Oh no So We uh, so we have we have a couple choices here. I don't know what what the panel would like to do We could continue going through different topics of Loki or like watching good Media thing. No, um, that was not an option. No, you don't get to have that Well, um, we could watch a video of someone saying why the season is so good Really, I'd leave it up to you guys. We'll have a vote You know, I'm down for that.  I like even in the video you can bring whatever you want. Do not worry chat You go right ahead. You're not allowed.  I'll okay. It'll come to my mind.  He's he did it anyway. He forgot something. Yeah, if you forget something, you're not supposed to forget I guess you also get pruned.  Oh my god So stressful. Oh my god. Yeah, at least people don't know to be stressed about it. That's kind of a blessing in a way They don't live their whole lives in terror that they're going to do something that they weren't supposed to do That was completely pretty much arbitrarily chosen by some Dude from the 31st century. They still are ties and lab coats in the Hypothetical people who got put on trial and they successfully argued their case and they're like, okay We'll put you back in the timeline then but watch what you do. Like imagine the terror you would feel every day for the rest of your life You try and explain to your friends you guys those day, you know what? I'm not gonna try I remember what it was So uh kang in episode 6 he gives them kind of like a choice. It's like you could overtake You know the tv a and rule it for me, right?  It's like hmm. Okay. I have an option of No free will in the entire in all of reality with incredible suffering and genocide murders because that's what the tv a is doing Which is like an unfathomable evil versus A hypothetical multiversal war that kang is saying is going to happen in which We could just let happen have a chance of surviving anyway It's like a no-brainer in the decision of what you need to do Shad the true the true no-brainer is talking about it Wait, he's got a point we should listen to Or you could you could just kill kang and then instruct the tv a They're so focused to be to just let all the branches of the multiverse just happen But go into each and everyone and just kill any kang that pops up Yeah, that can be there. That can be there one person. Also. Yeah, right The reaction is Loki at the end. Is it because he There's a big problem. There's a big because selvi sent him to a shitty timeline for some reason Oh, that's even worse. But before we even get there, right? Loki is legitimately saying hang on. He's kind of got a point the tv a which is like the greatest evil organization entity that like not only in the mcu I might be one of the most evil things that I've seen in media, right with how And then look he's like They kind of got a point and then right when like he gets beaten just so like the climax, right?   That's just been dropped on our heads out of Nowhere We have all the time in the world I've seen people say like well no silvi wanted revenge.    Yeah, why didn't anyone tell me? Oh no, um, I posted the link by the way for anybody who's uh, okay, uh, and the final like ending in episode six has potentially One of the biggest contradictions in like the MCU world building at the moment depending on how they'll show It's been resolved in season two and it's that Loki appears in the tva And it effectively is showing that the timeline within the tva has been changed They don't remember who Loki is which is a huge massive contradiction To the fundamental rule they're establishing endgame is that you can't change the past You just create an alternate and and it really looks like the tva has had its past changed and you know The statue is different now and they don't remember who he is And that's such a big contradiction on the world building. Oh, I was I was having a fit when that happened Or are they in a different mold to it? Is he in a different mold?  So it's like we guess we we don't know exactly what they're saying is I know we don't know yet. I I mean i'm Yeah, the answer the only way that they could fit in with the world building That the rules that that'd be contradicting already and other things but the the golden rule that So far the tva has been operating in was the rule that established in the endgame is that you can't change the past You just create an alternate reality And so the tva that Loki appears in would have to be an alternate reality tva It is so in different timeline where something changed in the past And the out and the actual tva that he came from with owen wilson who remembers him still exists I don't think that's what they're doing. I know I I really think I lived I think a black man eating an apple was uh frightening Terrifying he said terrifying. Sorry terrifying. I don't want to defend them But they did show a scene of owen wilson and body positivity time cop I think that was the previous tva that he was at and then the next thing black He said He said body positivity I said body positivity time cop And uh, yeah, and then the next scene it was the different tva. I think that's what they were trying to do But they weren't specific about it Can I just say keng just seems like some guy He is he looks like he's just like some guy. They pulled off the street to act. I don't know if he has like a He's a clown if he's done other things He's a class.  Just like I don't You know how they call it I he who remains And the next season someone's going to say to Loki in episode one She who remains because it's going to be female Loki who's calling all the shots We will female keng right? We'll get a female keng. Maybe probably I feel I just I feel like Tolkien would have written him a little different Maybe Yeah He would have put more he would have put more I'm looking at his IMDb and he was in that really hot show loved craft country, which was cancelled after season one Is that a point or I guess a lovecraft country was very important.  I kind of liked him I'm kind of interesting seeing what he would do He was quirky I will nah, I'll push back. I think he was I think he was good I I liked it what little I was even though I didn't like what the actual they were talking about I thought it was awful Overdone terrible hated every nanosecond of it I think he was he was trying really hard to be like goofy and and and quirky and stuff But it just felt really forced and awkward. Well, he did say my Training as a classically trained clown Helped me Helped me in that scene and I'm just like What a retard I I didn't hate but I had to burn on the close caption and understand what he was saying It distracts me when thinking about a wider context like if it was just some random guy, I think I'd be fine with it It's it's mainly the fact that I'm supposed to believe the guy who's in charge of everything. Yeah He wasn't malevolent. He wasn't scary. He wasn't particularly interesting There was nothing there that made him think and like, you know thought about any of this either He's not particularly intelligent is where I'm going with that.     How is this interesting to you? No, I think when they killed him He was expecting that all the bad kangs are gonna appear and when he says I'll see you later He's referring to you know because he says my You think I'm bad wait until you see my variants. Well, but so what was implied? So maybe I read too much into this and this isn't the case But what I thought the the problem was was you're generating the same situation We had in the beginning and what ended up happening was one kang took over And erased all the other timelines and ended up being the one we met and that that would be the inevitable conclusion again No I guess similar ideas to him, but it's not going to be that specific No, I don't yeah, I didn't mean I didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean like When he said reincarnated that's kind of what I was assuming is that the kang who ends up on top will be there again Yeah, yeah, no, I think it's gonna be a completely different kang Um, the the kang that he was was the result of the sacred timeline being enforced and the whole purpose behind it Was to maintain only his existence which happened because of the multivisional war though Yeah, this is where the comic head canon comes in So we're assuming because it didn't give us his name. He was mortis, which is the final kang like the boss kang and uh, there's like a rama tut kang and there's kang the conqueror who's the actual villain and there's nathaniel richards Uh, but they weren't specific about any of this. I mean, we don't even know if we're talking about kang Because there is a character you can actually say kang. Everyone's cool. Good kag. The way to go to choice Well, what else can we call him? John I'm pretty confident the kang that's going to appear now is going to be a variant kang that he was warning them would We're obviously leading to an evil kang who's going to be the person they have to defeat in the next phase or this phase, I guess Yeah, he's going to be the new big mcu villain that you know Everyone's going to have to deal with it. I guess at this point it's like unclear who will be the It seems like they're going to have multiple big bads at once That seems like what they want to do blow their load all the time. Yeah, I don't know where you go from here. That's the thing I agree, but I don't think they recognize that that's what's happened. I think that they still think well No, there's still we galactus, right? There's still we like dr. Doom. I think that's what they I miss okay for the villain was just like, you know, a guy who wanted to take over the world's or like A shadowy organization within shield or something like that Guy who wants to take over the world I sure hope spider-man doesn't ruin my plans. Yeah. Yeah Well, yeah, I don't know. I mean like now it's just like you're talking about like people who want to control all of space and time and Yeah, the fate of the cosmos. It's like, uh, what's hawkeye gonna do against that? Like fire an arrow Yeah You're getting into realms where it's so far beyond what any Like I don't even want to say normal, but like what yeah, exactly It's so ludicrously over the top that like there's just nothing to compare to there's no sense of scale now. It's just everything forever Yeah It's plot madness It is nonsense. This is it.   Uh, I'm literally playing with the strings of the universe. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm Yeah, they're pulling in things from the comics where you didn't have to explain I mean it was the time when people were reading and it was just simpler It was they were for kids for 12 to 18 year olds and that's where like a nihilist came because that's one villain You could bring in that most people probably haven't heard of that could probably take on king But yeah, like introducing dr. Doom at this point. It would be anti-chromatic Hmm a nice and what? He died on a nihilist. Okay, a nihilist a nihilist. Yeah He's a marble villain from the negative zone But yeah, it's it's You're right like the the building up now that you have king this guy with godlike powers Who's just a human like galactus is just going to be a pawn of his somebody He could just manipulate or prune whenever the hell he wants and same with dr. Doom Technically those pruning and the teleport portals that they can make That technically gives whoever has that ability to control them the power to beat anyone You you should technically be out of prune galactus with a touch Yeah, they don't forget about these things though like in a couple of years this whole plot will be over And it will be like it was nothing. There'll be no reference to the tba. Oh, yeah, they'll forget about it I won't use the technology. It'll just be a thing that happened and is done That's that's all that's it's not gonna have lasting repercussions only in the sense that it destroyed everything But I don't get a season two And then that's that we saw it Yeah, the next writer who just wants to do their own thing if they don't want to even reference it or care about it They just won't yeah, they just won't exactly and we'll just move along like it never happened. Yeah Yeah, because the story that I want to tell in the mcu whatever that means the story I want to tell is Just doesn't have to involve any of that.  It doesn't matter It wouldn't surprise me if we get another of this sometime down the line like five years from now There's another I could believe an organization that controlled the events of the universe and stuff Because remember they told us in uh, winter soldier And what are they what are they? I've always been around Oh, the Eternals is gonna be that's gonna be tough to explain that's more of this by the way Yeah, it's a lot more of this So um in winter soldier, they explained that like hydra sort of Move move pieces on the board of history when things don't go their way and they've been doing it secretly from Heinz Schiele Okay, and then tins out dracoff's also been doing that this whole time with his black widows He moves pieces on the board to whatever he wants to think oh, okay Tins out neither of them were doing any of that because He knew everything. Yeah, that's what I wouldn't be surprised.     So Oh No, his skull is airtight. His brain doesn't get it Everyone must have mixed that one up It really is common sense I think the the quote word for word was that this script will stand out. This the time traveled mechanics and everything will stand up to scrutiny This is really like just impressively bad like At least looper was like just don't think about it. At least they had a character say that Yeah, at least they just yeah, at least they at least we know they gave up And they just acknowledged it and this is like no no no no no no guys. It totally works. It totally works Just today would stay with me. It totally works Man, no the type like the problems in this including the time travel are offensively bad It's amazing next level and I I really do wonder where these writers how they got their job And then not only are they very bad at doing their job. I bet they got paid a buck at Well, I think it'll work. Well, this makes this makes you happy shad Like a lot of a lot of the people who've worked on these projects are getting new deals to like produce new stuff Including original content which is so depressing and Shad the vest to be happier These the the standard in you know literature like just good old classic novels are so much higher than this crap And I I just would love to see them try and write and publish a novel and then get it right over the coals For the actual, you know standards people hold a lot more. I'm not saying old books, by the way There are some pretty crappy books again, you know Well, so what's what's funny is you'll have a kevin smith type be like, uh, you know I'm going through the same thing that these other things went through where fans are just being belligerent and naughty and ass holy My thing is still good Okay Well, I I think the problem is that the metric for success is very different Um, the metric for success is did like did it make money? Was it successful? Yeah, I put it saying that it was really good And then you you're fine. It doesn't really matter I agree But if the audience and critics school was like 99 or 100 over I feel like they'd be pointing to that and being like, hey look at that But when it goes low, they're like Fine Well, there's also vast difference of the contemporary media quality like In terms of tv shows look at all the crap we've been getting and so when you compare it to all these other crap people think Ah, it's just as good as one division or something else and stuff But if you try and write a novel it's going to be compared against some really top tier writers that are making great stuff Like bread and sadists in a moment or Patrick Roth was like just phenomenal writers Um, and then when people actually compare something that is garbage something that's actually quality Then you really see a big disparity and then that people get called out and then the reviews seem to reflect reality a bit more Wow, so the the the interesting thing what I think about like the current landscape is that we I think that there is an unwillingness to do straightforward simple but effective stories Nobody really wants to do that anymore Everybody wants to do something that's really complicated or really subversive or really Like they want to they want to create something that's multi-layered and of course You know, that's good and a lot of the best stories like do that But it's a lot harder But like if if there is no such thing as good or bad stories Then like it doesn't really matter how hard you work because it doesn't yield any results, right? I think there's a pro I think the problem as well is like when they're talking you're talking about how they want to subvert Storytelling and characters they want to subvert it in all the wrong directions Like they want to take classic characters that people really have always Bonded with and completely deconstruct them into something that's like Completely unrelatable And break down like their heroic qualities or their villainous qualities or any or all of that stuff so that Nothing really means anything anymore in terms of modern storytelling It's all just broken apart into this nihilistic Bleak mess I think the thing is is I would like to say that any that you can make any idea work And that there there is like a world where even deconstructing Luke Skywalker and turning him into like a hermit There's a world where that has to work But like It's really hard It's really difficult and it's really skill You could just do a really simple story where it's just like hey, we got character He has these good traits and then a few bad traits and he goes on a journey and then he his good traits are enhanced It's like that's simple story. There's a reason that the hero's journey has been this like almost timeless Device for telling stories like this because it really works It plays on like basic human psychology, but it's very very effective And I think you by all means you can tweak it and experiment with it and stuff. It's not always going to work Yeah, it seems like it's uh, it's a poison to them right now. They don't want to be touched Well, yeah, it's like now they they treat it as like we can't use it at all We have to just make up something completely different ourselves But you know most of the time they want to scale an experience to do it Also, I think um the mediums uh Allow you to get away with different things because I think with visual media like tv shows or movies and stuff You can try and hide a bad writing behind flashy visual visuals and spectacle land and hanging You know dangling keys in front of people with fan service and stuff to just you know get people hooked in with Hey, you remember this character from this kind of thing You like it now, don't you and so the writing can get hidden behind all this stuff that people don't pick up on how bad it is But when you take something that's a novel where it's literally like only the writing it has to be able to survive on Then it's a much harder to try and hide the bad writing then and get away with substandard quality Definitely write about that because the big issue with the mcu right now is that we've reached a point where it's like They have all the money. They have great actors and actresses and Great set designers and cinematographers and like visual effects and all of that stuff Can be very distracting from the fundamental which is the script which is the narrative Ultimately everything else is built upon that um Yeah, and that and you can't I know you've said this a lot times more but like yeah It seems like you can't buy good writing Because nobody really agrees on what it is Unlike acting unlike cinematography the only metric that going by is did your story make money? Well, yeah, that's the only metric. Well, I think it's just a problem of like Said this a lot as well But like writing is when you look at a drawing and the anatomy is shit and like it's just really unappealing There's some sort of like innate reaction that you have to that we're like, oh Like oh, I don't like that and it's the same with music if it's like out of tune or And it's just complete jumbled mess where it's just like physically kind of like oh, I don't like that but with stories It's more complicated It's not as clear immediately Like I'm actually like paying super close attention Someone said with what you're advocating for why didn't you like Mandalorian then it's like so Mandalorian is pretty simple But like if you look at season two, he didn't even have a journey He just sort of went from cameo to cameo until he gave a baby Yoda And I think that that's kind of an indictment on Mandalorian that it's so simple and yet it's so broken in so many ways Like a lot of the storylines in that are completely fucked as well But like it's not The same as something like a Loki or a Black Widow where it pisses me off Significantly I rather I watch Mandalorian. I'm just like god.  Well, I guess you like that's exactly what they did there You could say they are shitting on the shoulders of giants Yeah, exactly Well, I think I think that's the thing it's like there is we gotta we gotta now the fundamentals first you you You can't expect to like get a gold medal in the 100 meter sprints Like before you even learn to take a couple of steps. You just got to build up from there um I don't know. I feel I feel like there's a there's an unwillingness to just slow it down and try and do stuff That's most or like at least you know establish your basis first and then start building up from there You can do like your super subversive show if you want, but like holy fuck Can we like at least figure out who these characters are and have them behave consistently with what we understand them to be Like let's get that first before we start figuring out free will and everything you watch the mcu. Isn't that good enough for you?  Yeah, so you almost don't allow yourself to think oh wait Maybe they've they've hired the wrong people or they're trying to push stories that don't work Well, that's an interesting point you raised Well, yeah, oh Is like in this instance people think that this stuff is like the best at 17. Yeah Yeah, yeah, it's gotten worse. It's gotten worse. This is a this is a bottom up problem If anything these shows are the symptom. They're not the disease I think I think I think it's on both sides of this like people accepting it Because the writers didn't have to make it so shit But at the same time they try they don't have to because I agree with you that they don't even have to work hard But like Jesus Christ. Do any of you have passions for writing like any of you? You know, it seems like to me that they have a passion for writing But it's like you can I you can have a passion for things you're terrible at That's true. And I think the people who are actually really good at writing Just end up going off and writing their own novel becoming success that way. They're very good at activism someone else They're really good at activism. They're experienced at it. Yeah, that's all they're good at It is interesting to think about the idea of what is it to compel somebody to create their own stuff versus like the people who are more interested in writing for established properties which is well, yeah, because I I'm Definitely the case.  Like what does that mean? exactly and and there's a lot of elements to it as well because Choosing to write for someone else versus writing for your own when you write for yourself You you can write whatever the hell you want you have total freedom skies the limit You have the potential to be far more famous and successful and make a lot more money if you're actually able to write something half decent as well on top of that and Part of me just I have this skeptical kind of Side to me that one is like are these people who just couldn't hack it on their own And but they do like writing and they want to be called themselves a writer And so they just sell themselves to get a job and then But I think you know, there's the activist side as well that they you know Ticking the right checkboxes and that's what marvel has been hiring after as well No marvel has these things pretty much set up kevin feige is writing all this shit by the way He's like he came up with the concept for the sitcoms for wandavision So a lot show which is kind of awkward. I'm guessing though some of these ideas that he's come up with the tva It's like oh Yeah, these are kevin feige Well, I mean and they're pulled from the comic books, but without the context without the well, you know They came up with the tva After five decades of writing thousands of comic books like they're yeah the ideas are running thin So they're just throwing a bunch of shit in there But like pulling it yeah putting it at this point in the mcu, which is that still kind of its infancy You know, we've had a couple of good phases Uh captain america and iron man are now household names when they weren't and now they're dead And you have to plug in some new characters and kevin feige is a fraud.  They don't do that anymore and now we're seeing free kevin feige So, uh, you know, I just hurl mutter under the bus for all kinds of shit I think so the interesting thing is I think that kevin feige just has the ideas for the series And he doesn't particularly care what the stories are as long as people like them Well, I'm not sure they have this stuff Plugged in right and then they hire people that that looks they hire virtue signal hiring They're they hire bisha kaoli because she was a lord winning quote-unquote comedian and feminist And that looks really good to their peers in hollywood. She's barely writing anything She's she's a story editor. This shit's already written and they brought in the rick and morty guy to flesh things out But there's no show runners for these marvel shows, you know that they have no show runners because kevin feige is the showrunner So it is kind of a committee of feige He said what he said about um, the avengers not showing up in black widow and dr. Strange not showing up in wonder vision, right? Yes, yes.  It's just like what? Well, that director who turned down the black widow job because they told her.    Why would you reference that while i'm here? I'm sorry. I'm not sorry Um, also, can I just clarify what I was saying before about because I don't think I was probably fully fair when I said, you know These people who are writing for tv shows are People who couldn't hack it writing on their own because there's been some really good writers and showrunners on great tv shows I think of oh, it's steven. The fat and so and some of the episodes he wrote for dr Hoon he wrote some really good stuff and so Clearly there's been some good and so clearly there have been really good writers in The tv shows and movies and things not recently though where they are now not recently. No, it was like, where did they go? That's a good question because I I think five six years ago tv was great Like there there was like a renaissance happening. I like I couldn't believe it.   They they've come out and said it They're saying things like we're not putting robert down a junior in because we're afraid a man will take away from the female role Do you think are you listening to yourself? I know that's amazing.  I mean, we're afraid a man will share in our female protagonists horrible immoral guilt Why I feel like that's the the only proof that you would need the Story wise it demands that the sorcerer supreme would show up to a town being completely controlled by a magical spell And they need help he would show up and they say he cannot show up because he is white and male You're like, yeah, that is a strange job. That is his effing job to take care of that.  Yeah, I miss it. I kind of hate writing I need to clarify. I said conspiracy theories or I believe all that shit I misspoke so it's theories that I absolutely believe in that's going in that's going on in hollywood right now I just think it's multiple things at the same time because as you said there was a point where tv shows like I was I was right with you. I was like, holy shit tv shows are getting good They became like hyper iterative over a couple of years like in terms of they're relying on all of these It's like they've sank into a sense of we've got to hire the pay enough to the cinematographer guy and have enough shots That look really just so people can cream over make sure we get the actors crying Expert time per episode make sure we have at least two action scenes per episode so people don't get like fall asleep Like um, it really feels like there's a factory list now how tv shows are made and they're all fucking falling into each other Like I can't remember them anymore It's the sheer volume of them as well And it's all I guess the streaming services had a big part to play in that because they really blew up like Five six years ago Netflix really took off and then suddenly You don't just have like a dozen shows on tv that you can pick from or or 40 shows or whatever Now you've got hundreds Just getting churned out over and over again and yeah like the the sheer Breads of the the entertainment industry now. It's just so vast.  Yeah Yeah, well and they were able to do this, you know, I saw somebody on twitter The you know star trek's successful because they're making it. No, there's tons of investor money going Just loads of it right now because of these streaming services and the promise that one of them is going to break away and make you Billions.   Whoa, you need word content keep coming back You need people to keep and you're right. That is the word is content because the problem stories tend to start with an idea but like Marvel content it's like, oh no, these are like the projects and then we'll get the people to make them It's like the idea comes after the the the project It's like, oh, there's like armor wars. They announced that what last year now now there are articles like oh, we're sitting down to figure it out it's like What why would you say they're just doing a meeting right now to figure for the rules for the multiverse. Yeah Like Done it The idea comes after the project and it's like that can't be good results. That can't there's no way That's that's just not how stories come to be like You don't know that these ideas will work.  You need to figure that out They're so big now like Marvel they can produce these tv shows and like if if the third of them flop Because they're absolute garbage It doesn't matter because they're making money hand over fist on everything else. None of them will flop. That's that's the thing Yes, they all made money Too big to fail at this point. Yeah doing an armor war show without tony stark I mean do it and all's it's going to do is deconstruct his character. It's going to be about all of his mistakes He's not going to be there to defend himself because he's dead Yeah, the whole wouldn't be surprised if he was going to come along and start shouting Why nobody told him tony stark was iron man Yeah, man rhodi would be held up as like the the iron man that's actually pure of heart not like Marge by all of his history, which is like well, he might well, he's in the military So you don't know about that. Well, maybe well, they could assassinate him.     So I don't think it's gonna happen like ever For some reason they started calling him black falcon. It's like why Random guy in the show is like black falcon Well I just like the idea that there'