Hey guys, how are you? I'm still getting ready in case you didn't realize that Hey Lisa So I have out my small jelly plate squal small square one. I Want to say it's a six by six does it say on you? I don't even know anymore. I think oh, I know a way to tell you Yes, it's six by six. It's the same size as my stencil so we are going to Cool Cindy. Hey Cindy. Hey, Mary. So I was recently watching a Video by jelly arts where they water did water coloring water color printing on the jelly plate I thought that was interesting. So I thought we would try I was talking about it yesterday and I we kind of agreed that we would try it today I'm going to use a couple different kinds of paper I've got some fluid cold pressed watercolor paper A few sheets left on this eight by eight block that I thought we would try I Have this piece of paper Which I have to start playing with these sheets before my daughter takes them all for me This paper is by tattered angels. It's pure mistable papers. This is the one called suede, which is blank They do have it printed on both sides with different kinds of designs that you can water color on this paper You can actually dump the whole sheet of paper in water get it soaking wet and It doesn't rip it will flatten back out. It's amazing paper I have links in the description for this paper And actually now that I'm thinking about it. I probably have Give me one second Maybe I can find them. Of course, maybe not Somewhere around here. I have little samples of the paper. Oh here there Found it That was easier than it. I thought it would be so you can get black and white prints on the paper that are perfect for water coloring and the designs in or Printing on them and how come my picture is suddenly blurry. Oh There I am. Oh, you know why because I put the auto Hold on. I gotta unclick the auto focus. Okay All right, so you can get the pure mistables paper which is what this is blank Which is called suede the link for that's in the description. This is the printed version I put the just the link for that in the description to these are just little squares of it And so what you can do with this paper, I'm going to move all this out of the way for a second Grab my water, okay, these are my clean water I'm gonna dunk the whole little piece of paper in there. It is soaking wet, right? It's soaking wet now. I Know like some of you are like, what are you doing? So Can you see it what it's doing it? It's it starts to flatten out by itself Hey, Lindy It and this is still wet, but it'll flatten back out again and look and I'm not I'm pulling kind of hard And it's not It's amazing paper I've got to tell you I don't know what it's made out of I do think it has a high cotton content But it's interesting paper. So this is the again. These are samples of the printed. We're gonna play with the plain white today Which is called suede? Again the links in the description below. These are 12 by 12 sheets My daughter who's recently discovered a love of illustration and watercolor Has decided she loves this paper and every time she comes over and she steals a few more sheets for me So I need to go buy some more All right, so we're gonna cut this a big 12 by 12 sheet up into six by six inch squares It feels really thick like a really high quality high cotton content paper We've got our jelly plate again, this is the six by six inch one I've got some clear soap dish soap I've got my watercolors. I think to start with I want to play with the neons We're gonna get them wet here It's almost time to refill my water bottle. It's getting a little low If I sound funny today, it's because I'm having a lot of problems with my asthma and allergies this week So I apologize in advance If you are hey Bella If you are following me on social media, which I think most of you are you've been seeing my posts this today, especially But also the last few days I have a surplus of finished artwork Some of it is nice artwork. We're gonna leave these may remain for a minute Some of it's you know Some of it needs help, but I just have a lot of it and I I'm old, you know It needs to go so it could be anything like this Or this I Don't know when these were painted 2012 It could be our set of nudes that you've seen before They all need to go some of them are already listed on Etsy some of them are not I'm going to get some like large priority mail flat rate boxes and some medium ones And I'm going to just fill them with canvases. Maybe a few prints. I have portfolios full of prints and Actually not prints. I'm sorry Paintings on paper and I just need to purge some of it Some of it I'm going to keep to paint over but a lot of it's just got to go away. So if you're interested Private message me email me if there's a particular painting that you've seen that you want to ask about Then again private message me I do also have of course the new stencils are available in Etsy as are my stamps and my Sign copy of my book which is also available over at Amazon. So Check out all of that stuff and to see if there's anything that you would like to have I Can arrange that This is a Princeton Neptune Half inch. I don't even know what this is called It looks like a filbert brush because it's it's flat, but it's rounded at the end That's probably some kind of wash brush Now this is a jelly plate. It has nothing on it Just plain Now that we got the business stuff out of the way, we're going to just take some of our watercolor. I Would not object to the prints being used in your art I wouldn't object to you buying some of the canvases and painting over them I wouldn't object to you can do whatever you want to them after you get the box You can take the canvas off the stretcher bars and do and cut it up There are just there. They're yours to do whatever you want with them Yeah, I would love a guillotine paper cutter. I don't have one So I just and you can see how the watercolor it just beads up on the jelly plate Because the jelly plate's a non-porous surface. So it beads up on it, right? I have loads of like paintings done on paper. Oops Stuck my hand in something. I have I have tons of them And if I'm not going to be reprinting them and selling them which a lot of them are not then I'm going to Let them go So look at that. That's just that's interesting, right? So let's do one more of those without anything on the jelly plate Yeah, I might want to put some more on that So I never would have thought of doing this until I saw the jelly arts video Where they were showing using watercolors on the jelly plate, which I was like da Why why didn't I think of that?  I do have a lot of the artwork photographed and scanned Some of that is available as digital copies in the Etsy shop Some of it's not though. So if you would like a digital copy of something you just let me know There's a little bit of paint left on here. And so I'm going to grab this one Now with acrylic paint if you were using acrylic paint on the jelly plate, of course, you would prayer it on and cover it Well, I like the sort of unknown of using watercolor on here. I like the lack of control those of you who've been watching me are Not going to be surprised I know, right? So Kathy, I agree. I never would have thought I never would have occurred to me Not in a million years. Okay, let's try Let's try the yellow. Oops. I just got a bunch of orange in my yellow. That's okay Trying to pick up some of the orange. I just contaminated the yellow with Yeah, got it. Most of it out. Okay. Oh, yeah, we're gonna do some layers Cindy. Definitely. We're gonna do some layers I just saw a notification come up on the top of the screen here. I don't know what it is. I can't answer things right now Look at that. I'm telling you guys. This is fabulous. Now. We're gonna next we're gonna clean off the jelly plate And we're gonna put some soap on here So the soap breaks the surface tension And allows some of the paint to spread out and stick to the jelly plate I love that. So we need to get the rest of that up there. Okay. I love look at this one. I love that Let's do one more because I want to put one more layer on this one This is a suede paper from canvas corp brands This is a manganese blue. This is daniel smith It's not technically a neon, but this is my neon and brights palette They do have a um, also have a video Using something about using inks on the jelly plate, which I haven't watched yet All right, so now we're going to take just a drop a drop Of soap And a baby wipe. I have not tried this.  Who's out my door? Okay, this would be why that we're not going to do live broadcast during construction That was one of the contractors. Okay, we put soap on the jelly plate, which will break the surface tension and should allow for The paint to do different things See how it doesn't beat up. Can you see that? It sits more on top of the on top of the jelly plate rather than beat up and being resistant It does still resist a little bit, but you get a different look That's with one One drop of dish soap I didn't make sure to get just a clear dish soap with nothing in it I didn't want something with tons of stuff in it So this is paul maul of pure and clear Hey ronda Hey tamari Very different look So you can see that the you'll get a different look on the jelly plate whether you put the soap on there or not So right now we're going to just do some backgrounds, which is what I wanted to do first So here's the orange one. I should hold it up. So cool So do you have to have acrylic paint? To do mono printing the answer to that would be uh, no Hey eve So I can see that the more you use The jelly plate after you put the soap on the more it's sort of washing away the soap and it's starting to beat up more So you're going to want to put more soap on there We're not going to write the second ronda. Yeah, right? So it So cool. So, um So but jelly plate and watercolors who would have thunk it This might be a mistake, but this is because this is a dark red, but I'm going to just put a little bit We'll see No mistakes in art, right only happy accidents So cool. I'm going to take a dark color from my other palette Let's do the indigo Which is dark blue I'm gonna get that wet and while it's Getting all nice and juicy. Let's get some neon yellow in here Because he doesn't love a good bright color, right? I forgot to turn my phone off. Everything is digging Dinging why does the doorbell ring things ding? As soon as I'm busy with something when I'm not busy nothing happens So nothing is going to make the jelly plate react in a way Um that watercolor does on paper It's always going to beat up to a certain extent But if you break the surface tension with the soap it beads up less. All right, so I want to um I need a different brush We're going to take some of that indigo color the dark blue Which I just splattered everywhere because you know My middle name is not grace I should put some more soap on here Because that's not going to work without the soap on there. So let's wipe this off another drop of soap There we go Yeah, they've got to be made of some sort of plastic or polymer, you know something I'm sure Shall we see how that turns out? Now you want a jelly plate. This is the small six by six one You don't need a big one to do interesting prints Why couldn't you ronda try blowing soap bubbles on the um Um on the jelly plate to get prints. Why couldn't you? Okay, so who doesn't love that That is so cool. I should just leave the soap open Right. I I I thought right away. I thought okay. Let's see if we can do a face now on the jelly arts video They did some flowers Which were interesting Which I'm gonna I'm going to keep kind of loose like they did I'm barely barely barely touching the brush to the jelly plate Because whatever you put on here is gonna like spread out and get smushy That's a word right smushy And these little six by six cards can be put into your journals. You could cut them up And use them as embellishments. You could use them as pages in a journal. You could send them out as happy mail So cool You could embellish that once you have these like this and they're dry Then you can go over this and embellish it with you know your gel pens and your markers and stuff too to just keep going on it Let's do another face. I think there's probably a lot of soap on there. So we're gonna Let's try it and see what happens I'm right-handed. I need to turn it a little bit And you have no control You know, I have very little control over what the paint does where it goes And you know what you guys know me well enough to know. I love that. I love it I think that's fabulous You get the most interesting art that way Smushy's a word. Okay, good So I I suspected there was some mineral oil in it Um, I do rub mineral oil on my jelly plate when I'm done with it I'll clean it off really well with baby wipes And then rub it down with some mineral oil before I put it away I don't worry too much about the jelly plate staining because they do stain But that's all right I'm not actually that concerned. Some of it will come off when you're cleaning it Um, I don't know should we find it out? Um, I have this palette handy This is a daniel smith metallic palette Let's put this purple maybe the blue So i'm gonna activate the Um do a chrome mauve and the um inner iridescent electric blue daniel smith So let's find out what would happen. Oh, I just swapped all the soap off I need some soap on there So if you do like the backgrounds without the soap it beads up and it you get an interesting texture But then when you want to go put a design on the jelly plate to print If you put the soap you'll be you'll get happier results And you notice i'm using paints that are dry. They're not like fresh out of the tube or anything Should we see what happens? This is Gerta's idea if you guys don't like it. It's her fault Oh, that didn't show up at all See that didn't show up at all That's interesting Let's put that aside. Let's try that again with like the regular watercolors Um, I have some dioxazine purple That's a pretty dark color. I can't imagine that that wouldn't show up at all Oops Okay, let's see what happens to it now We'll find out The fate I love how I a classy broad. I agree with you. Hi patricia Um, I love the organic lines you get in the face and it really gives you an interesting Interesting look see there you go So the metallics aren't like quite they're not opaque enough to really show up in layers When you're doing layers So that's the suede paper which I love the way at watercolors, but it just jelly print really well too. This is um An eight by eight pad That I evidently was doing swatches on I think those are the down daniel smith metallics. I don't remember now Let's make some more backgrounds. I am loving this I think this is fabulous. This is going to be a new way to get your jelly prints done Now the piece I did last week where I painted the face over a brightly colored neon background This would be one of the ways to get the neon background It would amy. It would probably make a nice shimmery background We could try one without anything else on it and just the metallics See, I mean this is just really interesting And I could see some doodles and other artwork over the top of that Let's activate the metallic palette and see what happens My asthma is just making me crazy you guys Yeah, the drop of soap and that was not my tip that was from jelly arts So go over and if you're not subscribed to the jelly arts website I do recommend it and um show them some love Like share and subscribe. I'd appreciate it. Of course if you did that here too There is a little bit of the neon still on here. We're going to leave it And both my waters are dirty now Because I'm so excited about what we're doing. I forgot to like make sure I leave a clean water Why would I do that? Okay, oh the metallics show up really well on dark paper But see when you do them here like this on just the white look at that There's a little bit of ghosting of the neons, but mostly that's the metallics That's a nice start on the background. I need some more paper. This is what happens when you jelly print But you use up all the paper. So that's not a bad thing. I've got a lot of paper Let's do another one This is the duo chrome aqua I don't have any black paper handy or I would try it. At least I don't think I do Oh, I might have a four by a little card Hold on Trying to you unintentionally Hey miriel No worries miriel these recordings of these broadcasts always stay up on my channel Today's will be interesting Because my doorbell rang have you know a few minutes in let's get some black Okay, this is just black scrapbooking cardstock. This is nothing fancy Um, and it's very inexpensive stuff from hobby lobby We'll see if we can do like a wipe up ghost print Yep Look at that You seeing that and again these are good like just backgrounds for you know starting some um Doodles or you know other you know a journal page or Okay, let's do some more of that So I like that So this this iridescent palette of mine is all daniel smith and it has gold iridescent gold Aztec gold bronze copper ruby electric blue and blue silver and then it has duochrome violet fantasy ocean aqua Cabo blue hibiscus mauvin violet Just fyi It's probably a youtube thing cindy It's not by my choice Okay, so now let's do some more printing That is so cool This is just from a stack of the you know four by six precut pieces of You know scrapbooking cardstock You know, you could take these um ones on the black paper. They'd be a good start to like galaxy doodles I think Yeah, I I don't know what youtube is doing and I just got a email today cindy I don't know if any of the rest of you who have channels got it, but they're changing the look of youtube Coming up soon. I don't know what that's about Kind of scares me no I don't know I'm not even able to reply to all the comments because you know, some of them either are just not there or You know, they're in spam, but I can't open them. I don't know So i'm just layering some of these metallics on the black paper. It's turning out really cool I mean look at that. That's really cool. Whether you use it for an embellishment or you doodle on it or Make a tag out of it Why not? Why wouldn't it work on deli paper? Uh, let's give it a try I've got a sheet right here Let's try the deli paper with something more pigmented like the neons Oh, my water's dirty. I said that already. All right Yeah, so especially if you have a watercolor palette that you don't maybe you just don't even like watercolor right, um Maybe you have a palette of watercolors that you don't care for the consistency or quality of them You definitely uh, a little creative could do this with them. How great would that be? Yes, it works on deli paper And that would be great because I love when you collage with deli paper The deli paper almost disappears and you're just left with the marks And who doesn't love that? And I do the same thing Kathy if it's someone I sub to then I just let the ads run Yeah, Eve Cindy blank. That's not good. Mine sometimes says there's no connection even when there is a connection So I don't know it's youtube of you guys.  Excuse me I did say my asthma is bad today, didn't I? I've taken all my medicine. It's still gross. How fun would that be to use on your um channel? On your channel on your art Oh patricia. Yeah, I have backups of everything on a external hard drive Now you wait till they go on sale and then you get the biggest one you can afford And then you back things up Let's print on this one The muted muted palette Who's muted palette because I have one I've put together Myself a little creative um Are they is it a particular company or I have a muted palette I put together with daniel smith and Uh m grand paints and I do really love it I made boobs. Oh, I did make boobs figures um let's see Yeah external hard drive pat patricia. So I have everything on there And really important things are stored on a flash drive that that's then taken to the bank and put in my safety deposit box Thank you for loving the spirals So yeah, so what I would do is I would just make sure that if you're using gel medium, you don't get the top wet Or put it through your xyron and make it into a sticker But you could definitely do it. You just the trick is to put your Gel medium or mod podge on the page then stick this down and then use a dry flat something to squish it into your glue Without getting the glue on and then this isn't going to go anywhere as long as you don't get the top wet And that does look like boobs didn't even think about it It's a gonzi. Okay. Yeah, I don't have that one But I have a muted palette by daniel smith that I put together of daniel smith colors and I do really love it Of course amy shoot And this has soap on it. So when I do this it's getting a little soap on the on the surface of the paper Let's see. I'm going to grab some turquoise because of course. I am why wouldn't I At least I think that's turquoise. It's either turquoise or indian blue No, it's turquoise Yeah, send me a comment um with the link because I would love to see it Cindy I've always got something stuck to my finger. So Everybody I know is usually they're used to it by now my my I'm frequently going out somewhere with blue fingers or Paint on my clothes. I don't know is there Happens all the time Yeah, I don't know about the gum Arabic gum Arabic is a binder generally, but it might do something try it So colored pencil storage amy. Um, there is a really great Line of pencil cases that you can get online or you can get a hobby lobby that hold I think it's 24 48 and like 120 um Pencils and I know from experience to 120 you can fit like 140 and Um, I would look into that. There are some big zipper cases for holding your colored pencils I don't even like that one better. See look at that People are are messaging me Because you know live So it's time for them to all bug me I love when you guys bug me. It's all right. Let's see Okay, Cindy. Yeah, let us all know Yeah, and there are roll-up cases. Kathy is right You can also Kipling makes a um large hundred pen case That is actually really um cool and you can I think fit a little bit more than that in there So I'm just going to take some water This is watercolor remember so I'm gonna turn my paper. I love these. These are great. I agree with you, Cindy These are really, you know interesting starts on something else um Of course, they could be you know prints on their own. I'm gonna leave this one alone because I like that one Let's add something to this one And again, I'm not I'm not putting any more paint on here. I'm just putting water on here now You could actually spritz it. Where's our spritzer? Because there's watercolor on here And you just do like cleanup prints like you do with acrylic paint So Amy, I would go to hobby lobby use a 40 off coupon go to the pen and pencil aisle And they do have some pen cases there Some nice ones. They have a few different kinds. So I would go look there I might I might need to leave that one because I kind of like where that one is going Get a little more soap on there Yeah, check them out always try the places, you know, have a coupon first For at least 40 off like michaels and hobby lobby If you have one of those nearby or another store that you know that's near you that has That sort of thing um Before you go spend full price on something I have no plan Other than I knew I wanted to play with this today. It's just that way, you know, it's normal for me. No plan So I hope this gives you guys some ideas of just something new and fun and interesting So um that you can try With your watercolor paints Yeah, I'm a big couponer. I used to be a bigger couponer than I am now. I love a good coupon. I love a good deal Yeah, this is really a great technique and you could really have a lot of fun with it. It makes something really unique I did want to show you um really quick. I'm going to put this aside for a minute. So this is the um Printed paper I'm going to zoom in just a little bit I'm going to be moving the camera around so if it's making you all dizzy. I'm sorry So these are the printed. This is the same kind of paper. This is just printed already With a design on it. So if you don't you know know how to draw you just want something you can color in um, this is the paper for you And it's the same as the other paper And you can just color it in and it comes these come in 12 by 12 sheets. This is just little like sample squares But it comes in big 12 by 12 sheets And there's all sorts of designs, you know butterflies and there's all kinds of things It's nice to have these little squares. You can cut up the 12 by 12 sheets just in like random squares And then you have something like this that you can um Just play with a few of your watercolors. Maybe try some different colors Try a new palette And have these little tiny they become small embellishments that you can then use in your Mixed media in other places Oh, I'd appreciate that that thumbs up And if you're not a subscriber thinking about think about subscribing Don't be afraid to leave a comment if you would like to support my channel by shopping in my Etsy shop um, or joining one of my facebook groups um, or um, you can tip me there's ways to tip me over on my website um You want to email me send me happy mail. There's all kinds of information in the description This is the same Paper a little creative. This is the same paper Only this instead of being a big blank sheet. This is printed Uh on both sides So the links for both of these papers whether it's blank or printed are in the description And this is the one that we got soaking wet At the beginning It's almost completely dry now and I just did a little bit of coloring on it Hang on one second, and I'll show you I've got to find them hold on I don't know where I put them They should be technically speaking in here because I don't have tons of 12 by 12 sheets of paper Since I don't really scrapbook anymore. Oh, that's not it. I did put it somewhere else Yep, I did so the it comes plain or it comes like this. Look at this So these are just a few of the prints And again, you can color these in with your watercolor Or you can cut them in up into little squares Be printed with stuff on them So if you don't know how to draw but you want to play with your watercolors, this is the great This is the product for you because it's already got a drawing on it. It's done in this really great. Um Paper that takes watercolor amazingly And so it's a little bit better than your standard adult coloring book Which usually is printed on paper that you can't really watercolor on Um So go check out these papers. You want to get the papers that say Painty whatever it is I put in the video description because I don't remember now I don't know These are some of the ones I got because I helped them out at cha so So, yeah, I would I would go to the canvas corp website I don't know what stores these are available in But I know you can order from the canvas corp website along with the blank, which is the suede paper And definitely you can use your jelly plate to watercolor. I mean how cool are some of these? This right here, you could this could be just the way it is You could add a little bit of pen work or journaling to this How cool would this be in fact? Let's do that really quick because we have a few minutes Can't There's no room to put stuff Okay, my desk was a mess before I got started today Okay, so I'm just going to grab the pen that's easy for me to grab which is the pilot varsity disposable fountain pen So this is what I would do with this piece I would keep it loose and sketchy suggestive just the way the Print is coming off the jelly plate Make if you're using a pen like this pilot varsity Then you want to make sure it's dry Because this pilot varsity is not waterproof So I would do that How cute is that? A little bit of jelly printing and a little bit of doodling There is a michael's coupon. That's like a 50 off coupon. I just got it Oh, that's that sounds interesting muriel with the rolling ink. You'll have to show us one of these days Does anybody have any questions? It's called suede paper. Yeah, the blank one is called suede paper This one that we did that was that I cut it up It's called suede paper And this is the printed one which is the second link the links are both in the description And it the suede paper one should take you right to the suede paper listing The second one should take you to the listing where they have a bunch of the different designs for this printed one This was a lot of fun quick easy a new way to use your jelly plate and your watercolors So don't forget to like share and subscribe Feel free to leave a comment on the video if you have a question comment or concern Um If you need my one of my the link for one of my facebook groups or my etsy shop or anything Um my email address my happy mail address all that stuff's in the video description You're welcome. Go out and have a great day and do something nice for yourself because you deserve it. Sorry about the interruption Uh, I'm going to go out and see what if anything is going on with my fence All right, I will talk to you later the owl paper the owl paper. Okay, so these printed ones They are printed on the same as the paper. I got started with the this blank one. It's just printed on both sides So they're the same paper one is just blank and one is printed the links for both of them are in the video description All right All right, I will talk to you all later if you have any more questions about the paper or the listings Pme or leave a comment on the video or catch me over on facebook All right, I'll talk to you all later. Bye guys


Let me introduce myself. I joined Toradex in 2011 so more than 10 years ago I spearheaded there the embedded Linux adoption. I introduced an upstream-first policy and at times I was top-10 U-boot and kernel-arm-sock contributor and our latest embedded Linux platform. It's an industrial platform called Toryzen and it's fully built based on mainline technology with mainline kernel, mainline U-boot, with Distro-boot, with KMS DRM graphics, with Ednavif or Nouveau and we also have ODIR update with OS3 and we are using Docker respectively Podman who run the application stuff in the containers. What I'm talking about today, I will give a quick introduction to DSA. Then I'll look a little bit at the history, what has been there before, what's happening with DSA. Then we're gonna look a little bit at how a commercial switch even looks like and then of course also how one can run mainline Linux on those. Then another topic I want to cover is Power Over Ethernet. That's basically one reason that you can run, you know, open-source stuff on it, then you have full control over things like Power Over Ethernet, you can control how many watts you want to give on a port and all these kind of stuff. I give an overview of that and I also show how we can run that with OpenWRT, what kind of, you know, platform we have there and at the end I conclude with a live demo. I have a little Netgear switch here where I can run today's Linux next stuff on it. Very good. Let's look at DSA. So this is booted switch architecture. It's basically a protocol for managing switch chips. So if you look at the graphics, I mean a regular PC or also an embedded board usually has like an Ethernet controller, but as soon as you have more than one port, usually there is not separate controllers involved in that sense, but rather some kind of a switch fabric or an Ethernet switch chip and that is basically what DSA helps us to manage. One basically differentiates between data plane and control plane. So the data plane, that's basically where the regular data stuff, you know, flows through your switch. So usually you have like a CPU port that basically allows the control processor or your regular SOC to actually get some of the data to, you know, for certain protocols, you might want to analyze those packets and then depending on the content of the packet, you might want to do certain things with the switch fabric. That's basically the CPU port and that goes to the SOC and that is also referred to as the master interface. And then of course you have also the regular switch ports, those are called the slave interfaces. So in this case here it's an eight port switch and basically from zero to seven, the regular slave ports and the port eight is towards the management SOC. And the whole idea of DSA is basically that the obstruction in Linux really also covers all these slave ports. So you basically have, every port really shows up if you do, you know, IP commands and stuff like that, they all show up there. And then to actually manage the switch, there is also a control plane involved and that's the orange stuff here that, you know, can be regular MDIO stuff or it can be memory managed or memory mapped basically inside an SOC even. So from an obstruction level, these blocks can be all in one chip or it can be a separate SOC, a separate ethernet controller or that can be in one that there are different combinations really possible. And therefore also various of this control path kind of passes SPI also or I2C, all kinds of stuff is possible. And that basically allows the CPU to actually configure the switch so it can, you know, access registers just like it does that just with files, but in this case, you have more registers that also allow you to really configure the switch fabric stuff. And especially in the embedded space, often basically you also have integrated ethernet files or even some kind of abstracted internal such MDIO bus. And an alternative is of course also you can have external files and there or even SFP as SFP plus cages that usually there they actually communicate with those with I2C. And then why is it called distributed? Of course, we can basically continue that concept and it can even be cascaded the whole switch fabric. So there can be multiple switch chips that you chain them. And if you chain them, that's just then the concept of basically you have one CPU port going to the kind of the management processor or the CPU and you then have also special DSA ports that are basically then the ones that are chained. So basically when traffic from switch to here needs to travel to the CPU, it basically needs to go through switch one and switch zero through this special kind of DSA port. Yeah and then basically it's about switching network packets between all those ports and providing kind of you know higher level services like bridging or you know some spanning tree protocols or you can do like Mac filtering, IGMP snooping and of course the whole VLAN tagging and tagging stuff usually in hardware in those switches. And there is also another framework besides DSA which is called switch def and that is basically the framework that allows you to really offload into hardware such functionality. That's what switch def is used for. Okay then let's look a little bit at the history of DSA and I start kind of what was before or what was there before. So in Linux before DSA there was no common framework or subsystem handling switches, network switches and a lot of commercial switches. I mean even like this one that I will use in the demo. While they actually run Linux on them it's totally proprietary driver user space, it is nothing, no common subsystem or anything. Then how about open WRT? I mean most Wi-Fi routers for example have couple of ports usually like up to five ports, it's kind of common. And of course real switches like this one that I use here later that wasn't really something that was supported in open WRT until like very recently. So open WRT basically adopted switch def SW config not to be confused with that later switch def that I talked about before that is basically nowadays in mainline the framework to offload stuff. And the way this SW config stuff works is basically they use a VLAN to differentiate what the traffic, how it's going to be routed not the segregation of the traffic. So basically usually you have a VAM port for your internet connection and that is usually on one VLAN and then you have all the other ports are usually kind of LAN ports where you hook up your computer or stuff like that and they are in another VLAN and that is how that was done. And one disadvantage of that is that to the actual system that the actual ports weren't even abstract that Linux didn't know or open WRT didn't really know that there is how many ports there are. Well it's also not true that of course it knew it through this SW config thing but it's not a standardized solution basically and you can also not use any standardized commands then. If you do IP or route and stuff with those commands don't know nothing about that. So it really required special user space to do that. And there of course was also an attempt made to actually upstream that but in the discussions that happened at the time it kind of was clear that this is not doesn't seem to be the best solution. And actually that discussion later led to the development of the later switch dev which is now in mainline. But of course it was better than nothing for a long time we just carried kind of out of three patches in open WRT for the longest time and only now with the just released the 2102 version at least partially it's now migrated to to using the USA. It actually depends kind of on the target certain target architectures were migrated certain others not yet. Okay but that's basically a work in progress and I expect like you know the next kind of stable open WRT I expect that everything will be migrated over. Okay but then how about DSA itself it basically is not enough something new in that sense it actually started in 2008 and back then I actually that graphics here is from the original kind of commit message from back then it was basically an attempt primary design to support the Marvel you know the kind of the Soho switches the Link Street product line and yeah of course the abstraction wasn't fully there yet at the beginning it was more or less a little bit targeted to that but it then yeah since evolved but at the beginning for the longest time it was rather dormant nothing no development happened and until like mid-end 2014 where there was more push towards you know supporting switches and especially it was about the hardware offloading more people were you know getting interested how can we offload that we don't you know want to use some CPU cycles to to route packets and stuff that need to be a more intelligent way to do that and then basically one of the first drivers outside of the Marvel Soho stuff was then the Procom added support for the Starfighter two switches then there was some infrastructure around it added for example a lot of switches also allow to have a kind of a configuration year prom that that you know at power up it has some kind of a default configuration that it reads from there and the regular kind of year prom subsystem in Linux kernel was basically used and allows now to go through the switch also to read and even write that year prom then another thing in a similar sense is for example temperature sensors a lot of this you know switch fabric stuff of course they get warm as well you want to make sure you know the terminals are right and that was integrated with regular hwmon then other things that were added was energy efficient isn't it support then also like wake on land support that you know you can use any of these ports to also do wake on land functionality then there was better filip integration and of course the also the marvel there were further switches in further families basically supported and then also the device tree binding was basically crafted remember back when basically the arm architecture basically transition because a lot of switches or well a lot of switches meaning the device they use some kind of an arm processor as the control processor or like I mentioned earlier there are even switch socs that basically combine an arm core or multiple arm cores plus the switch fabric in just one chip and then of course also support for doing the bridging really in hardware I mean it doesn't make sense if you have a switch fabric but but every packet need to travel to the CPU to actually do the bridging and then travels out again so that was one of the first thing that was supported kind of to offload the bridging stuff then also more work happened on the whole control plane side of things at the beginning it was limited to mdio that was just what most of the marvel so stuff used but that got refactored to allow also i2c or spi or also memory mapped stuff to be used then procom added the b53 driver qualcomm qca 8k switches support then further marvel families the second generation of the procom starfighter and then also support for the media tech switches that basically in some of the of the quite popular media tech chips that are used in in for example wi-fi routers and then also more acceleration support got added features like port mirroring that is quite common in switches when you want to do some kind of analysis network analysis stuff you want to basically mirror all the traffic on another port support for that or some other tco floating and further family support here then something unique that i'm actually also using on this switch later is is that support for external mdio bus so basically what that is is you have an mdio bus from the soc to the switch but the switch is basically also master again on another mdio bus where you can have further files or switch chips and this support was integrated as well i will show that at the demo as well then further families got supported the further media tech support then microchip as some of you know they were on a shopping spread so they acquired s m sc so also their land 9303 port then microchips or that i think came from microl which they also acquired the ksc kind of families then further qualcom families further procom support i think this one is also one with integrated switch fabric then also with this got acquired basically by micro semi and later by microchip so their vsc 73x or some 5x lines got supported then the real tech kind of switches then broadcom omega that is also an soc with internal switch support further microl ksc stuff and also the max linear stuff that is actually what started as lantic later got acquired by intel and lately then it's now max linear so the vrx 200 quite common in dsl routers actually so that also has a dsa driver nowadays further families then for the marvel one the whole series support got an overhaul that basically means that if you have external files or also cages sfp sfp plus that usually you you know use the service stuff then further support for those ksc ones also including that you can hook them up by isker c not just the mdi then further my vsc family the so called bellix from the ocelot family that's basically uh uh yeah it's ip that microchip has which is then used for example in certain nxp uh chips some of the nxp chips use that ip inside then the hirschman hellcreek support arrow speed chips and last but not least the further ksc the 88xx family so it's yeah pretty lot going on lots of important stuff nowadays i try to summarize here the dsa drivers that are that are available now the r o speed chips pro com b 53 and of course the starfighter the hellcreek this max linear actually take that ip they call it gsw ip then of course the the original marvel stuff that got extended to many more families a medic media tech then microchip like i said they they were on a shopping spree so that there are the kind of the micro ksc types once then the smsc former once the line and the vsc with this one and some of those exist as standalone switches or switch chips as well as there are a kind of soc integrated ones then another contender is the nxp sja 1105 that is kind of very common in the automotive automotive and of course qualcomm qca 8k then the real tech switches which basically got reverse engineered from some leak data sheets how about commercial switches of course there are many a household brand not i'm not going to you know count all that here of course there are managed as well as anime managed switches but for our talk here i mean only to manage stuff is interesting not the others don't really run any uh you know any linux or anything on it then often of course those vendors just kind of copy some reference platform so that also means that often even different brand of switches might more or less have the exact same inside so the same chips the same way hooked up everything that's just because they kind of well just engineers copy stuff if it works so a lot of these reference platforms can be basically recognized again in the actual real commercial switches then like i mentioned before there are dedicated management socs or also with the standalone switch chips as well as fully integrated ones where you have it all in one chip then of course from the storage for the for the program stuff there is nand versus nor usually they have at least like 64 meg of ram so plenty to run linux on it and uh yeah often as it is with this kind of embedded stuff it's a big question is what and how flexible open is the bootloader because if you don't have a kind of a decent bootloader then you really have to start a level earlier and you would have to do a bring up even of some kind of a bootloader like uboot or so and that requires quite more skills and and like jtag access or at least some kind of way to how to write that that nand or nor flash and things like that but to replace bootloader is of course a much more tricky kind of topic okay now we look at some basically some uh mainline available uh switch drivers and what kind of switches actually make use of such platform so i start with the pro com b 53 one there is actually used what is used in the sysco meraki mx 64 or mx 65 i have a picture here and you kind of can see quite nicely how that actually is kind of done you see the the fat chip up there with some memory chips that's basically the soc and then lower you actually see two more chips and those are actually the switch chips so in this case uh this the soc is actually a pro command this strata gx and that one already has a five port switch integrated which uses this b 53 driver and then at least on mx 65 which is the one with i think 10 or 12 ports that that one basically has an additional two qualcom switch chips so this is a really nicely basically a the distributed cascaded kind of way of how to do a switch not and yeah there is a some guy who worked on that there is a merge request pending in open wrt so if you have such a switcher would like to run you know linux on that one you can find it with the merge requests there another platform which actually uses the same soc uh or basically the same switch from b 53 family is the lambo r1 it's kind of a banana pie you know kind of one of these clones and it has the that same switch chips but mdi are connected basically and i have a here actually the device three where you can see so it has two of these qualcom switch chips and they basically are connected through different mdi buses basically so that control plane uh this is goes through different bus basically then another one which i also will talk a little bit more because that is the one that i also use for the demo is is the marvel kind of the original driver basically uh there are kind of there is the solid run clear fog which is basically a nice kind of development platform which is you can buy and that is fully mainline kernel and open wrt supported so that was kind of why i picked that one it's kind of really nice you have like a reference and you can see how they did it and then try to tweak it that it actually runs on your one and then the actual target i picked here is a netgear gs 110 e mx that one actually uses an armada a 381 so this 88 f 68 11 so c and it combines it with an 88 e 6 3 90 x switch so there is also one without the x the x just means that's kind of for the 10 gigabit stuff not so it has really support uh yeah it has there those ports which are then hooked up to two further uh 10 gig files in this case the 88 x 33 10p so basically the two 10 gig ports here are regular rj 45 but they go through a separate buy chip this one basically so it's an eight port gigabit switch so the those eight ports come from the switch chip and on the third s you have two ports 10 multi gig or basically usually for uplink purpose not so you can have your nas or something like that on this one yet and when i got that one of course you kind of take it apart have a look and you see some kind of headers amazingly mostly they usually are even assembled so you have you know some pins you hook some ftdi to it like like i have it here not and then you start to see whether you can actually get some output in this case here it's an ancient downstream marvel you put running on it luckily it's it's not kind of locked down or anything and it even has support for ethernet right in the boot loader which is of course very convenient if you want to tinker with it so you don't have to kind of uh you know use some flash program or something to even get some code on it then the stock switch actually runs linux kernels 3 10 70 so some you know really ancient stuff of course with lots of vulnerabilities and things like that i mean netgear has has been in the media with with you know millions of devices exposed to whatever vulnerabilities basically horrible luckily netgear is kind of a at least from a gpl point of view they're a very compliant company you can just download all the gpl kind of source stuff however like i mentioned initially the whole interesting part about the switching is not really open source they use some proprietary stuff so you don't know what exactly they're doing basically it's not handled in kernel or anything they don't need to give you any driver you don't know here is actually that board and you can also see the header it's kind of on the in the middle on the left side and you can also kind of see how that is done there is in the middle kind of the switch chip and on the left side there is some ram and that so c basically they're armada so c and you also see those kind of separate two ports on the lower right which are the 10 gig ones which basically have a little uh yeah their own magnetics of course and on further up you see the two five 10 gig five chips yeah first when i played with that one i struggled a little bit with the ur pinout i mean i don't really remember why that just didn't want to work at the beginning somehow i was able to stop it from booting but i didn't get any output once i settled that i got the u boot prompt and i was also able to verify that ethernet was actually operational so you know it basically had even tftp commanded stuff working one problem was that with my regular setup it it just always you know returned with this unsupported option error and i googled a little bit and tried a few things with my regular setup but i couldn't get that to work and then i found this kind of python based pt fdp thing which has a special dash dash rfc 1350 switch which seems to make it happy so that made me happy as well so it actually accepted code and like i said because it's very similar to that clear fork thing it just kind of started off with that one you know build a kernel with that and tried to kind of load that in but it didn't really work out because from the addressing it didn't match and then i compared kind of a little bit output from that with the configuration that the clear fork guys use and i found out okay it looks like the load address is kind of different for whatever reason that downstream marvel u boot thing uses some weird other way how they mapped out the memory basically so i modified that and i got a little bit further of course there were also various kernel configuration options that i needed to enable like of course the dsa one and because i used some init rd based stuff i had to enable that kind of stuff and of course i also saw that for the 10 gfi there is a separate driver i enabled that and just the whole squash fs and friends stuff and with that i basically got the first mainline kernel output but it was hanging at the ahci driver but it i mean that port doesn't even use it so it just disabled it then i stripped that device tree down to a bare minimum and with that i was able to get the first prompt and it then is basically just a matter of distilling the proper device tree not and yeah with try and error i figured out the whole mdi configuration you know all the addresses there and which bus is now connected how and like i mentioned i then found out that the those external 10 gfi they they go through the actual switch chip mdi or bus so that the switch chip is the master on those buses again and of course need a little fiddling with that until you have that all in the device tree that is really accepted then another thing that you need to be aware of if you play with with dsa stuff is that of course if you just run like mainline and kind of a very naked user space you also need some level of configuration user space configuration so basically at the beginning none of these ports will actually really do anything so you you actually need to configure that and the most common thing of course is to kind of do a bridge so to basically tell the switch ship well all these ports are just you know in the same network and just you know bridge all the packages between each other not and that is basically the setup i'm showing here luckily in open wrt basically it already knows how to do that of course if you kind of set it to set that up properly but that for example if you just copy the clear folk stuff they already have that in there i just for this one i of course extended it even it's kind of intelligently done they have kind of a loop so you just say okay i have land one two ten and and then it will add all that stuff then to debug whether for example you know if you plug something in whether you get all these notifications things like that i actually use the mii tool and mdi tools i will also quickly show that in the demo then basically reverse engineering the the gpios the soc has some gpios this switch doesn't really have much it it has like a reset button so i just kind of hooked up you know gpio keys to all the the gpios that that the soc and theory has and just kind of press that button and then i saw ah this one is actually that button and then the last thing i'm still kind of tweaking is is the this tank g files they now actually get detected and it looks very good just somehow i haven't seen any traffic really going through and one thing is that those files actually run some kind of a firmware which maybe also even can be updated somehow it's not so fully clear so they they for sure have an e-prom as well on on the board where where they right now they load that thing from there and when i google for that i see that most people have much newer firmware but that switch seems to have a very old firmware and and i'm now a little bit concerned maybe there is something in the driver that kind of works a little different in this older firmware that this one seems to be running so i'm i'm still investigating there okay but let's look a little bit further so on this marvel family there are also further commercial switches there are the syscos the sg 2v 250 line they also use this kind of a marvel pristera switches there are for example the d-link dgs 1210 family actually only the a1 and b1 hardware revisions the later revisions actually run the real tech stuff i also have one of those which runs beautifully i will come to that and i have kind of the bigger brother of this one the netgear ms 5 10 tx tx pp that is also one that i'm playing with but unfortunately that one has a locked down bootloader kind of the same u-boot but but it's kind of locked down so i'm trying to figure out how to kind of unlock that that one will be a true multi gig switch so it has several ports with several different 10 g 5 g 2 and a half g and whatever port then the the microchip vsc 74 xx unfortunately that one doesn't really have mainline support yet so that could be interesting to figure out because the 73 xx or the 75 xx are supported so i'm hoping that maybe that could be tweaked to to also make this family work those are used in quite a few you know popular switches like the maraki ms 220 line like the older hb 1810 planet or this zyxel gs 1910 or xgs 1910 unfortunately by default they run some kind of a red boot and that doesn't have vsnet support so also there it's rather inconvenient to to really play with it let's see then like i said that vsc 75 xx family unfortunately here i really tried hard but so far i could not find out any commercial switch that actually uses that i mean micro semi now microchip they have this development platform which of course costs a fortune and it's actually what bootlin upstream support for that so that would have beautiful driver support but i just haven't found any commercial switch that uses it then the real tech ones like i said lots of older or current model of commercial switches uses that there is kind of a lower end 500 megahertz mips and the higher end 700 megahertz and their code named maple or cypress and those are actually the first switches that are officially supported in open wrt then there is also a later line the real tech rtl 93 xx that's basically real for for also for 10 10 cheese switches and there is work going on there to also support that there is the zyxel xgs 1210 a 12 port multi gigs which kind of the similar thing like like this one here that that is basically also supported but also there they they struggle with the the 10 gsv plus support it's not fully clear how exactly that that all works i think it also needs some kind of a firmware and and it's all not so fully clear but basic support is also experimental support in open wrt is there now i quickly want to talk about power or reason net basically it allows passing electric power along with the data there are various standards i'm not going to go in in much detail here and one talks basically about either power sourcing equipment or power device so those are the two sides not and usually of course the switch actually could be both so it would allow to have a smaller switch that could be powered by a bigger switch or of course the switch can power than other devices like cameras or wi-fi access points and stuff like that then yeah that that's basically that so power over is net switches that is kind of an interesting topic there are various of the switch controllers that that are used to to actually provide that kind of functionality it's it's basically about you know switching some fate which will put the power on the on those lines and then usually they also have some kind of chance which allow to actually measure how much power now the device really uses oftentimes they have some kind of mc use that runs on proprietary power over isn't it firmware and usually those connect and via just uart and it's kind of a fairly easy protocol then in open wrt for the real tech switches somebody actually worked on that and there is a kind of a experimental package available that that would allow you to do that i also list here you can then you boost call call basically poi info and it will show you you know port so-and-so how much consumption and things like that that's fairly nice that's basically in see written a little demon right now and there is also a proof of concept of of a tiny demon just a draft for now so you're welcome to join the discussion you know how we could evolve this and maybe of course one of the question is user space versus kernel space does it even make sense to integrate something like that with a kernel driver or or is that the right way to go just to have some kind of a user space thing for it there are also other such controllers that talk i square c rather than uart things like that so maybe we could do it a little bit modular that we could switch the communication thing something like that okay then i get to the demo let's have a look basically that's the picture here a little bit that you see this is just an f d d i thing by usb connects to my pc here of course i have an isn't a cable and and i have a power cable and this kind of diagram here shows kind of how that switches yeah what it contains it has on the left it starts with the so c or with the ram and flash and then the so c then there is the switch chip which has these eight ports and the two lowest one are basically serdes which have another five and then the other rj45 ports let me switch over here i have kind of just you know terminal to the turn that off i hope you can read it so that's basically the bootloader i can even start over again so you can see the full output that's basically what you get when you power it on and i need to have my cheat sheet so we can actually yeah in in one terminal i'm running this the tfdp server thing and i can now for example you know set an ip address set the server ip address and i can then kind of load some code here first i load the the full kind of init rd open wrd thing uh that is actually kind of master from i don't know 10 days or two weeks ago master open wrd right now is 510 kernel based and that is basically running the the full thing and and there so this like i said it's 510 61 based that's a little bit old to september 6 and you see now it actually did this user space configuration i talked about of course it takes a couple seconds until all the demon everything is kind of running and one can see all the ports here that's basically how they're called uh the lan x so 1 to 10 and at eth0 that's just the convention that is used because that is basically the actual real easernet control behind it and one interesting thing that i can show you here is i can run the mdi oposs command and that one now lists really all the mdi oposses that are there and you see here that i have basically well we can even start there is a fixed one as well so that is basically how the the sock one is just basically hard connected to the switch that is this one and then i basically also i have this uh that is basically the mdi o one that goes to the switch which then has these eight ports and as you can see one of the ports is up the first one and the others are down and then like i said the other the 10 gig ports are on another mdi oposs that is basically this mdi o external so that basically routes through the switch chips goes out again and then do the vise out there that is basically this then i can reboot it and i can also show you how we can even run basically the same user space but i can really run cutting edge uh mainline on it let me set the ip address stuff again and then i have some more i can then load the z image basically separately of course i also sometimes it locks up i don't know that's this old u boot has some kind of a flow control problem i assume not uncommon but not much well maybe one time i try mainline u boot as well but for now i'm happy that it kind of works so i separately load also the squash fs stuff and i also loaded the uis tree up there as you can see and then i can give it some boot arguments and then we can go ahead and start the whole thing up actually there is some kind of a crash as well i haven't even looked but that is with you know live demo cutting edge two days next well i mean what can happen mainline it should just work not so let's see how that works actually it's still kind of starting up but whatever so we can see this is from today who now 2021 oh 9 29 yeah dirty because i had to kind of hack something well and here we can see also it also this one talks eth 0 that one has the neck out the neck disabled not that's the one that is fixed then i can also do that with with some port here not and we can see so the first line one is connected gigabit flow control link okay if i for example take the second one it will say okay no link makes sense and i can also take like nine or ten that goes towards actually there it seems strange it also seems to have some uh i yet have to investigate what what exactly goes wrong it seems that it's not fully happy with it but yeah no link right now okay that's about it what i wanted to show here let me go back to the slide i don't know whether anybody has uh i have some references here uh questions answers anybody has a question yeah go ahead sure yeah yeah i think it uses the regular exactly yeah sure yeah yeah i haven't really played much with it but if you're interested in the best is in the open wrt that those real tech guys like i said that that those are really supported already in in regular open wrt and there is a lot of discussion about this kind of stuff going on so i would suggest you can chime in there i can i'm also usually watching it a little bit but i don't know the full detail to be honest okay any other questions otherwise thank you very much having you here today thank you guys


I'm going to go with actually is the role of nature-based solutions in negative emissions portfolios kind of like gets at some of the work we've been doing lately and the work we have some funding from CERC for, so. Just briefly, some of the key people involved, yeah, my name is Connor Nolan. I'm a postdoc with Chris. I've been here at Stanford for about three years. I got my Ph.D. at University of Arizona doing paleo climate, paleo ecology. Now I've been doing a lot of cool stuff here with Chris. You guys all know, don't really need an introduction, but. And then Katherine Mock is a, she was a research scientist with Chris for years and now as a professor at University of Miami doing lots of climate adaptation, decision making under deep uncertainty, a lot of cool stuff. And then some other postdocs and students. So Kyle Hems was a postdoc here with Chris and he and I worked on this grant proposal that we got funded from CERC. Anela Arifi is a current Ph.D. student with Chris. And then a couple of really great undergrads, Cecilia of Vampassion and Jevin U. So, yeah, I'm going to jump in. Much more kind of like big picture and conceptual than some of the awesome deeply informed, deeply modeled energy systems and other cool stuff we've been hearing about today. But talk about forests and negative emissions. So, negative emissions, we know we've been slow to decarbonize and in order to meet ambitious warming goals to limit warming to two degrees or 1.5 degrees, we pretty much surely need some amount of negative emissions. Negative emissions are intentional human efforts to remove CO2 from the atmosphere. And we're going to need them from a portfolio of different technologies. So, ranging from things like natural climate solutions like aphorization, reforestation and soil carbon sequestration to more technological like bioenergy, direct air capture, weathering, ocean fertilization and so on. Let's see, this portfolio, we were really inspired by this really good report by Livermore National Lab about getting to neutral and negative emissions in California that came out in 2020. And in this report, they found that California likely needs around 125 million tons of negative emissions to get to net zero but on the state's kind of climate timeline. And about 20% of that, 25 million tons can come from natural and working lands. Some 84 million tons can come from biomass energy with carbon capture and storage from waste biomass. And the balance comes from implementing direct air capture and with carbon capture and storage. So, we're interested in the, wait, what like these kind of portfolio approaches and what they look like. And we're interested in what they look like on the ground at the local scale and like scaled up to the earth system impact in terms of what are the kind of global feedbacks and accounting challenges and how do you make sure that you're actually removing CO2 and lowering the atmospheric CO2 in order to make progress on climate goals. Not just kind of creating a market that might not do anything. And then how do you like avoid burdens on local communities and how do you make sure you're doing good beyond carbon and having co-benefits and not having bad costs. So, we started with a bunch of like a couple of years ago with a grant from Climate and Leisure Alliance to do some scoping work about realistic potential from nature. So, there's all these different, you know, estimates out there in the literature, some really high numbers for the potential role of nature. But we wanted to kind of go through a little bit more systematically and that's, I'm going to talk a little about that paper which is out in Nature Reviews, Earth and Environment. And then we also let a report for a science assessment report about forests and climate for the Climate and Land Use Alliance that kind of gets at this kind of how forests are simultaneously impacted by climate change and part of climate change mitigation and adaptation. And so, that's here. So, forests are at risk from climate change because heat and drought stress from fires and other insects and other disturbances, they're a part of the problem from climate change in terms of deforestation and forest degradation contributing major carbon emissions in the atmosphere. But they can also be a part of the solution to climate change contributing significant mitigation and adaptation benefits. So, some of those climate change mitigation benefits come from these kind of categories of protect, manage and restore, avoiding deforestation, can have significant positive impact on the climate and it can really maintain biodiversity and another important role of intact forests. Changing forest management, like by reducing harvest times and lengthening rotations can have a lot of potential globally on the scale of a billion tons a year. We see a lot of these kinds of projects in the California compliance market. And then reforestation, deforestation is maybe a very large technical potential, a much smaller cost effective potential and it can really have contribute negative emissions. So, talking through some of these more often, aren't any new ideas like when going through some of this work we found, you know, papers going back to early 90s saying tropical forestry response options to global climate change. And so, this has been in the literature for a long time. It hasn't been implemented at any large scale. It's still on the order of a million tons a year or something like that right now. But there's a lot of recent interest and trillion trees and other big kind of funding and press interest in the role of nature to solve climate change. And so, we want to come up and think about a realistic role for nature that kind of recognizes the full range of constraints. And so, we gathered a bunch of different estimates that we could find from the literature. We did a big meta-analysis where we gathered 42 natural climate solutions estimates from the literature. Things like papers we've seen like vasten at all the global tree restoration potential with that really big maximal estimates and other things about soil carbon and kind of summary papers and some of these old reports and new reports. So, we kind of searched far and wide for what we could find. And we converted them all to carbon gain potential over the 21st century. We found the total CO2 sequestration from these papers kind of estimates range from well over 1,000 billion tons of CO2 removed by natural climate solutions to, you know, under 100 depending on the kind of regions and the types of activities considered. But this orange shading in the middle is the IPCC AR5 estimates for negative emissions needed to limit warming to 1.5 degrees C and really only the maximal estimates for natural climate solutions potential anywhere near that. And we think a lot of those maximal estimates aren't possible because of a lot of these constraints. Like there's near term constraints around financing and governance and then there's longer term constraints about what's actually biogeochemically possible in terms of sequestering additional CO2 and ecosystems and then maintaining other ecosystem services, maintaining social political support, local indigenous access, all these things. So, we think near term governance and financing constraints are a big limiter and in the longer term biogeochemical constraints kind of set the long term potential. And so, doing a lot of these analysis looking at what papers consider what kinds of constraints, looking at a lot of the detail that you can all find in the paper, we come to this estimate that natural climate solutions can contribute something like 100 to 200 billion tons of CO2 removal over the next century. So, it's a significant amount and it's way bigger than any implementation that's out there right now. It's become a gigantic industry of natural climate solutions but it's nowhere near kind of like solving the climate crisis on its own. So, we need like a portfolio approach of negative emissions. And another big piece of this is that the kind of ability for net nature to contribute climate change mitigation is contingent on the overall climate trajectory that we're on. So, under high emissions scenarios, where we fail to limit warming, I mean getting this kind of three to four degrees C world, there's severe impacts on climate on forests and the opportunities become much more limited versus in a Paris consistent path, there's, you know, still significant to moderate impacts on forests but there's really big potential for forests to contribute. So, there's this kind of like contingency on overall climate actually because forests are like a solution that's at risk to the problem that they're trying to solve. And just showing this another way like so in a continued high emission scenario, you could actually have a situation where ambitious forestry interventions actually end up failing and worsening climate change impacts and, you know, maybe more moderate modest interventions can have limited and like limited positive benefits in any scenario. One interesting paper that came out recently showed that even if all nature based solutions are temporary, in this case they like implement like a hundred gigatons of reforestation and then they say it all reverses after 50 years. If you're on a SSP1 kind of scenario where you limit warming, even if all of the nature based solutions are temporary, they still significantly decrease the peak warming and can have a real effect. But obviously the decrease long-term warming is only like, only happens if the storage is permanent. So, there's benefits to doing nature based solutions even if you're not sure they're going to be permanent on thousand year timescales. So, yeah, that's kind of the summary of some of the stuff we were working on before. And now I'm going to jump into a few other pieces that kind of expand out to those other kind of our system impacts and portfolio approaches. And so, at the air system impacts one thing that's important to consider with nature based solutions is they have to be distinct from the already existing background sync. So, the background sync comprises natural and indirect effects, so natural effects like the CO2 uptake by photosynthesis and emissions from respiration and disturbance that kind of in equilibrium balances out to zero. And then with carbon with CO2 fertilization, nitrogen phosphorus fertilization, growing season length increases, we see this indirect background sync that does a lot of climate change mitigation in the background for us alone but isn't a natural climate solution in the way of negative emissions. And then there's direct management interventions like decreasing harvest rates or reforestation that can actually result in increases in carbon storage uptake. So, like this, these big bars that kind of balance each other out right now have this sync, are the environmental change background sync. This middle bar is the management and deforestation sync. And we really want to avoid natural climate solutions just being moving things from this small bar to like, or this environmental change and background bar to this managed bar and saying we did something when in reality that actually isn't doing anything and from the atmospheric perspective. We don't want to do that. So, this is a big problem for natural climate solutions. It's also a problem for things like enhanced weathering potentially and other kind of things that are taking advantage of ongoing earth system processes that create carbon sinks. So, one way that people have talked about doing this is adjusting the, adjusting integrated assessment models to match naturally determined contributions. So, integrated assessment models have this very clear distinction between managed and unmanaged land. These managed lands are the direct impacts that we want to capture in terms of natural climate solutions. Whereas nationally determined contributions have a significant land sink component that is on managed lands, but that's using a accounting quirk called the managed land proxy where you don't actually have to do anything.  So, this is not like, this kind of works and you can do this, you can do a Rosetta Stone approach for translating between these in the nationally determined contribution context, but it really doesn't work in a carbon market kind of context.  So, there needs to be a way to actually ensure that carbon market projects aren't taking credit for the background sink in a way that they shouldn't be. So, let's see. So, like, yeah, the background sink, it's super important. We want to maintain it, but we, it's not what we're talking about when we're talking about negative emissions from land. So, we have to really carefully distinguish between indirect and natural effects and then direct effects, the managed, that we really want to care about. One thing that would help to align these things is if countries would start reporting their nationally determined contributions with and without the contributions of the land sector. And, like, additional carbon uptake relative to the existing background sink has to be proven for carbon market forestry projects. So, one thing that is, you know, we are always keeping an eye on is that avoided deforestation projects can't take credit for something like a foregone sink or a foregone foregone sink if you get into the double negatives of it. So, yeah, that's some, the earth system accounting that's kind of in the weeds, but it's important to make sure as these things scale up. One thing that we're also working on in terms of negative emissions portfolios is these corporate climate plans as a big kind of proving ground for climate action and what these negative emissions portfolios can look like. So, Microsoft is a big leader in this space. They have a carbon negative by 2030 goal and remove all historical carbon emissions by 2050. They've, last year they purchased a million tons of CO2 removal and wrote a nice comment in nature about their lessons from that. And we're working with the Microsoft sustainability team to think about the role of nature in their portfolios. A kind of different approach is the Stripe Climate or the recently announced Frontier Climate, a partnership of Stripe and Alphabet Meta Shopify where these companies are just committing a big chunk of money, not necessarily trying to be carbon negative or net zero or anything like these, but they're committing a chunk of money towards expensive carbon removal. And so these, the two different approaches for corporate climate actions lead to different approaches on nature. So the Microsoft approach success is based on tons of CO2 removal versus the climate company approach. These are based on just levels of investment. The Microsoft approach because it requires them to get to a certain number of tons to meet their net zero goals, they have to have more widely available now and cheaper carbon dioxide removal versus these Frontier Climate approach. They are willing to spend any amount of money and they're spending in the kind of hundreds of dollars a ton range in some cases. And then, so the Microsoft approach just leads to a large role for nature-based carbon dioxide removal in their portfolio versus the Stripe and others approaches almost completely excludes nature because they're interested in these truly, for sure, permanent solutions. So it leads to a really challenging question of how do you compare nature-based carbon removal that's on this cheaper and widely available to these really expensive direct air capture and other things that are more permanent? So just to walk through some of the things that are in the market right now, you have these low quality carbon forest offsets that everyone agrees are not good. But these have comprised a large part of the voluntary carbon market as it currently exists. They're very cheap. They have a very low likelihood of limiting CO2 in the atmosphere and they have moderate to minimal co-benefits because they maybe are contributing to some amount of protection of land but they're not doing that much. On the other hand, some technological CO2 like bio-oil injection or biochar you have direct air capture. These are much more expensive, over $100 a ton in many cases. They're very likely to limit atmospheric, they're very likely to result in lowering atmospheric CO2. And their co-benefits, I don't know, questionable. We'll talk a little bit about that, not that much. That's not a focus of them. The focus is doing what, of lowering atmospheric CO2 and they're pretty good at doing that, it seems. And then, so what we wanna think about is what is a next generation nature for climate offset that might be more comparable in terms of price and have big co-benefits, have a good likelihood of lowering atmospheric CO2. And then we can start to say like this is actually comparable and we can start to make value judgments about what direction you wanna push your investment into. So nature-based, nature for climate next generation looks like nature-based climate solutions need to under-promise and over-deliver. This is a big change from how nature-based solutions are being sold right now. Nature can do a lot, but we don't have to oversell it. It doesn't have to provide billions of tons of additional CO2. It doesn't have to solve everything with all the co-benefits you can imagine and be at low cost. It can be, we want to under-promise and over-deliver. So one solution that we're thinking about is this kind of like over-buying approach where you, right now there's in the markets there's like a buffer pool that are 10 to 20% of the credits are saved out for reversals. We're thinking, what happens if you flip that? What if 50% or 80% of the credits are in the buffer pool and you only get credit for a small amount of the work that projects, the carbon that projects are measuring to do but you're much more light, much more confident that you're getting what you're paying for. You're getting some real carbon removal from nature. It's gonna make nature-based carbon dioxide removal more expensive, but it's also makes it more likely to deliver real benefits. And then the other piece is, how do you value the co-benefits that come with this? There's many reasons to invest in force beyond their carbon capacity. We want to not make carbon the main metric, but these have largely been external to carbon markets. It may be possible to try to internalize some of these co-benefits or take a different approach, like saying we do these really strong carbon focus and then we say you've graded on some co-benefits around your biodiversity protection and your sustainable development contributions and other issues that goes on top of the like more rock solid carbon numbers that you're getting by our over buying kind of reverse buffer pool approach. So this is really important because nature's high leverage. That this is kind of my starting to wrap up here. It's an investment in nature, has a potential for these big win-wins across climate and conservation and sustainable development. But if it's done poorly, there are risk of big lose-lose outcomes across all these things we care about in terms of climate, conservation, sustainable development. So we want to make sure to get nature right. And right now there's a big risk in the market of getting nature wrong. So some of our future work is to keep going on all these and start to think about what are these portfolios really look like on the ground? We're working with, like I said, some of these corporate partners and they have real money that they're spending and they're doing to try to implement these projects and figure out the standards that work for across the buyers and the providers of assets across the verifiers and all these things. And then I think one thing that like we've been thinking about is like extending some of these concepts you see in nature-based solutions and talks about what are the co-benefits of direct air capture and other of these things? Like there's how do you value things like jobs and rural economies and just transition for fossil fuel workers and things like that? How do you weigh something like that which has real value against something like the biodiversity protection? It's not necessarily straightforward but there's real opportunities to kind of lay out the options and make decisions based on data and based on like what we actually want to do to get climate right. So just wrap up with this. Negative emissions are necessary, are likely to be necessary. We want to make sure there's quality and there's a real constituency for quality that's emerged. Nature's got a role to play but it's only one piece of the puzzle and carbon essential but it's not everything. So thanks everybody for listening. Happy to be able to be here and talk about some of our work. There's my email down at the bottom. Thanks Conor. We have a couple of minutes if anyone wants to ask any questions. Hi, yeah, thanks. Thank you Conor, that was great. I just want to make sure I understand something and also a question. So it seems very complicated the direct and indirect, you know, like those categories. And I noticed in the indirect you had extended growing season and all that. I'm just wondering where like modified crops or that would potentially fit into this assessment. And correct me, are you just looking at trees like reforestation? Are you looking at other crops or plants? Is there a way to have these natural climate solutions and carbon benefits? We are literature research was looking at mainly it was a lot of mostly forest and some soil carbon sequestrations like summaries. We didn't look a lot about like the individual like some of the kind of technological plant type stuff that's really cool. And I think has the benefits. I think those things would be very clearly in the kind of direct managed aspect of this because they're, you know, doing a implementing a project that with a specific goal of carbon in mind. So, and that you could, you know, see how they're doing compared to standard plants and make a clear assessment of what the additional carbon storage was from that. And that would be like, you know, very much worthy of carbon crediting under standard. Yeah. And is there much of that going on anywhere in the world right now? I don't think so. I think like with a lot of things we see like there's a lot of talk about natural climate solutions and things but there's very little on the ground when you try to dig into these things happening right now. So with the teaser of your next work how would you compare biodiversity benefits versus job benefits? Do you have initial thoughts on that? That sounds tricky. Yeah, it sounds, it's definitely tricky.  But I think one thing we're thinking about is that projects should have some co-benefits and like they should be doing good beyond carbon. And so like that might look like some kind of standards body that evaluates the co-benefits, the suite of co-benefits for a project. And that could be biodiversity or it could be water or it could be jobs and just transition. So like, I think there's gonna be a lot of like qualitative judgments involved. And but it's just, we wanna make sure that project developers are thinking about these things and thinking about how they're doing good beyond carbon.