So, the storage side of the big client piece, but still you've got that dynamic that I was talking about earlier. So, you know, if you have some kind of a company that's yours, the client is faster than you can pick up. So, you've got that dynamic going on. So, it's a matter of, okay, when does that split? When do you get that split? So, look, in the sense of this, and also not only in terms of the site, but in terms of the field, the passion, the voice-app. I feel I'm in a six-billion-dollar business. Everybody's acting like it's the start-up. And welcome back, everybody. This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE's premier flagship TV broadcast, where we go out to the events, and we basically extract the signal from the noise. We talk to the smartest people at the best technology events, and bring that information to you. I'm Jeff Kelly with Wikibon.org, and I'm joined. Technology specifically, or maybe he'll tell us how it is. So, we have John Myers, senior analyst from EMA, which stands for Enterprise Management Associates, if you want to look it up. John, welcome to theCUBE. Well, thank you very much, gentlemen. It's great to be here. Yeah. So, it's great now. So, we've got kind of a different lens on this information. So, really, big data is a big term. It's thrown around a lot. I don't know if it's got quite to the hype, where the taxi cab drivers in New York are asking about your big data investments. I guess there aren't that many places to play. But from your point of view, kind of what is, how do you kind of organize the big data space, and where does Splunk fit in, and how should people really think about this thing, when I'm sure that there are CIOs sitting in offices right now going, oh my gosh, you know, I need to do something about this big data something. Yep. Where do I go? How do I organize my thoughts? I'm confused. No, no, I agree. And I think anytime that the economist does a special insert on a technology, you know, it's kind of, I don't know if you want to call it jump the shark, but it's definitely lost the line of critical mass when you've got the economist talking about a technology player, a big data definition. But, you know, we at AMA are seeing a lot of development in terms of big data. We've just recently finished up a study where we're currently writing up the result sets. To your point about where do you see organizations going, we see big data being a little bit more about a set of requirements in terms of load, structure, response time, the economics associated with it, then we do say, oh, it's really big data. And we see Splunk fitting in very nicely in terms of being able to acquire the information, analyze from an operational perspective, bring that into an area where you can take a look at it. We found one of our big use cases from our survey research is this concept of online archiving of data because a lot of organizations have tons and tons of data, but before the economics wouldn't allow them to store it for more than, say, three days or X amount of time.  I think that Splunk does a great job of being able to flip that over and saying, we're not just looking at the heartbeat of the organization, we're looking at the trends of, you know, whatever type of health you're talking about. Is it, you know, server performance? Is it, you know, data coming through the system? Is it, what are these different pieces? And when you're able to give it that historical context, then you can start projecting out into the future and saying, this is where we can make our capital investment if we're talking strictly about our environment, or we can go, what is that data in those operational systems say about our business and how do we utilize that as well? Yeah, for me, that's the interesting, really interesting part. When you're taking, when you're moving from strictly IT use case to actually affecting business outcomes. And we're seeing that come one of the trends we're seeing here, of course, among the users are they're often starting with that infrastructure monitoring and management, and now they're moving off to new use cases where they're really solving business problems, not just IT problems. Again, not to downplay the importance of IT, but when you're extending it throughout the organization, it just increases the value of your investment. That's one of the great things when you're able to, you know, an IT department that is able to go from heartbeat to strategic value to the organization, that's when they flip their value to the organization. Instead of being a cost center to be dragged back, their view is a strategic asset to be unleashed. You know, I come from a telecommunications background, and maybe about three to five years ago, the folks at one of the New York City internet providers asked their network team, tell us about the health of the network. And they said, yeah, everything's green, it's fine, you know, it's working okay. Then somebody said, take customer data and tell us the usage. And they found out that 5% of their user base had 50% of their usage. And they were like, okay, so either someone's running in legal ISP or we need to revisit our terms and conditions. That's something similar. That was a one-time use case with Splunk here. You can turn that into an ongoing thing. You can judge your trends. So instead of it being special projects to go find out, you can track and trend and see are we missing revenue opportunities or are we looking at too many costs for our service level agreements? When you go into Mahogany Row and you talk to the C guys that aren't down in the data center, was there an event, was there something loud that kind of got their attention that this data is not just IT data, that it is actually a lot of strategic value in there that we can do something with? I mean, was there a use case that's kind of popular around? I think when you think about it, you know, a lot of these organizations have always talked about our data is our strategic asset. And at that point they kind of walked away and said, okay, we need to do something else. But I think we're seeing organizations, I think the poster children are the Facebooks, the LinkedIn's, etc. These are organizations that are built on using their own data as a strategic asset to move themselves forward. So I think that when you saw Amazon being able to do their recommendation engine and they're using not external data, internal data looking at behaviors, that was kind of the breakthrough. LinkedIn being able to say, no, it's not just a Rolodex, it's the relationships between the people in the Rolodex. Being able to do that. So I think when you had those types of kind of standard bearers that are moving forward, now the key is now for those CIOs that are seeing, hey, how can we act like Google? Now the question is, now how do we actually do that? And you need to be able to get the data, be able to have it wherever you need it to do the analysis, whether that be from an operational perspective for right now, again, that heartbeat, or looking at it in terms of an analytical approach where we're trying to project forward into the future. Of course you've got some organizations, when they look at the Googles and the Facebooks of the world, they come to the opposite conclusion and say, well, that's not us, and maybe that doesn't apply to us. That's starting to change. But we think certainly, there really aren't, if you just look at the customers here, there's really no industry that is not impacted by data. So what are you seeing out there in the field among enterprises starting to get this among the more traditional so-called enterprises? I don't want to give a shout-out to an organization, but if you watch TV you'll see a business-to-consumer insurance organization that says, hey, let's put this little GPS in your car and we'll cut your insurance rates. You won't understand that, but it's the cute redhead with the white outfit. Exactly. She doesn't tell you that if you don't pass when you stick the thing and then maybe they won't be giving you a policy. Exactly. But you see that there's an example of saying, we move from the GPS, which is telling us which way to go to now having a recording device in our automobiles that allows us to do X, Y, and Z. In terms of implementations, I think we're seeing business-to-business, like big fleet trucking, rental cars, things of that nature where you have a B-to-B relationship and you don't have all those, I don't want to call them, you don't have privacy concerns, but since you have that contractor-owner-employee-contractor-contractor relationship, you don't have them the way you do, say, whenever you talk about cell phone tracking and things of that nature. So I see B-to-B sensor-related data being that opening of the floodgate. And as you said, 10 years ago, we wouldn't have thought to use the data from the GPS to do anything, but now we're linking it to traffic, we're linking it to insurance, we're linking it to driver's behavior. And I think one of the big things was to get that adoption into B-to-C. That insurance company, I don't think any of us are really excited about, hey, let me go put this in my car. So, oh, my 16-year-old, I'm all over low-jack my 16-year-old and tracking them. So I think we're seeing a lot of that adoption is going to be from that perspective moving forward as opposed to other things. But I definitely think B-to-B is one of the big strong areas from collecting sensor data, from logistics, transportation, et cetera. And what about kind of from a competitive standpoint? So clearly, say, like in the retail space, Walmart was way out ahead of everybody in terms of really being on top of their data and using it as a strategic advantage long before anyone else was talking about it. So does that continue to be a barrier to execute in terms of size and cost and expense or in today's world with today's technologies, as it may be even flipped because it's easier to implement as a small player than it is a big, because you don't have the barriers to implementation? You know, I was just talking with someone here on the show, from Boulder, Colorado, where we have a lot of government installations about NOAA and MCAR and things of that nature, do atmospheric research, required a Cray computer, a government grant, significant, you know, they basically built buildings to hold those computers. Walmart comes down the pike, they have both their size, their data set, and their strategic ability to analyze that data. You can't set the way back machine to today. There are, you know, grad students, actually undergrads at Stanford that have Hadoop clusters in their dorm rooms, they're analyzing data in much the same way that you might see a Walmart or another organization go. So I would say that barrier to entry in terms of technology, whether it be from a cost or a processing perspective, we've gone a long way from the days of Cray, the days of, you know, when Walmart was the only one who had all that POS data. Now we're into an area where if you can collect the data, you can put it into a particular place, then you can start to operate on it, and it becomes your imagination limiting you, not the size of your IT or the size of your budget. Very interesting. So I wonder if we could talk a little bit more about Splunk, the company. Okay. Obviously they've had, they're on a great run, had a very successful IPO in April, just finished up a great quarter. I think they added about 400 new customers. So what does your take on, why do you think Splunk is hitting kind of such a high note right now? Is there something about the, are they writing the wave of interest around big data, or is it something more in the product and technology that's really crossed a certain point, and now it's even more...  You know, it's not putting roadblocks in what I'm trying to do, so I think that goes right into the quarter, the IPO, you know, all those things. And from the case studies that I've worked on, looking at Splunk, you're talking to the customer base, they've got, again, you get this enthusiasm coming back. It's not about the limitations. It's about this just opens the doors, and in fact, I think one guy said it just kicks the doors down. And then, again, you're into that area where it's like, this is cool. I can go and do things. I can be enabled, not hold back, reined in going, oh, it's going to cost us this, it's going to be like that. You know, everything I've heard from both here on the floor and the people I've talked with in terms of customer base, Splunk just enables them to do the things that they need to do as opposed to being that inhibiting force. Which is the complete opposite of what you hear normally over the years from enterprise software vendors who I won't name.  You've got to realize that data warehouses were designed for telecommunications organizations and they did such a wonderful job at it that nobody uses the ones at telecoms or they have very bad reputations, let me put it that way.  Let's not try to say you've got to do it our way. They're saying, no, let's open the possibilities to see how it can work. And then I think the people at Splunk have done a great job with an adoption path that's not huge barrier to get in. You can get in the way you want to get in and then start building up. We're seeing a lot of organizations with a kind of disruptive land and expand type of methodology. And then you're definitely sensing that energy here where you can get in, start building up that critical mass and then really break out. So yeah, so how are technologies like Splunk, other big data technologies, kind of disrupting the traditional BI and data warehousing world? We've seen, you mentioned it. I mean, the old data warehousing paradigm was you take 18 months, two years to model all your data, get it all in there, make this pristine data temple as my boss, Dave Vellante at Wikibon says. And then if you have any changes you want to make to it, you've got to go through the two-year process again or you just don't do it, it's not worth the time and effort. And in the end you've got this very expensive project that sometimes doesn't even get finished. Well, I think that's one of the things that links both big data to the disruptive technologies. We're looking at, in the example you just put out, you set the structure at the front gate and if you can't meet the structure you can't get in the front gate. And that made a lot of sense back then. Now we've got the ability to set that structure farther and farther back into the process because we now have the power to process through it faster that you could say, okay, let everybody in the gates or all the data into the gates and then when we get closer to decision time then we can start to apply a structure to it or a schema or whatever you'd like to talk about it. And I think that's where big data really, again, that's where people are getting excited about this concept of big data. Everyone calls it unstructured. Everyone's heard somebody say, well unless it's a file with randomly generated bits it's not unstructured, there's some structure to it.  The processing power, the cost, the economics if you will of the platforms really enable that so that you can make that decision closer and closer, that structure point closer and closer to the decision point I think Splunk does a great job of enabling people to do that type of stuff where they're not forced to say make that decision here and wait two years. We have a number we like to quote at EMA is that most data warehouses are 2, 2 and 50. Two million dollars, two years to implement 50% of them fail. So when you start flipping that around and saying how can we get the up and running in four to six weeks or three months in terms of returning positive revenue or positive investment ROI numbers to the organization that's where people are going to see it and when you get to have that speed that speed implementation and that time to value that gets the attention of the CFO the CFO then goes I think this project needs more money as opposed to this one that's two years and doesn't need more money. So how do you see those data warehousing vendors it's an oracles of the world adapting in this new landscape. Do you see some doing better than others? I think that there's a lot to offer still in that traditional EDW. I've got good friends at Oracle, Teradata, IBM, the whole nine yards but they offer a lot of great opportunities to do things. When you need to do counts, sums, et cetera they offer a great opportunity because they are built upon a structured data environment, et cetera when you go to an unstructured environment when you have to do something like a semantic analytic or you don't know what you don't know. I always love the quote, the things you know the things you know you don't know then the things you don't know you don't know big data sits in that the things you don't know you don't know Splunk is right there so that you can decide instead of having that three-day window of data have a billing cycle have a whole year worth of data at your availability the data warehouses are still great about let's see what we know about the things we know and how do we churn through data associated with that if you have a different type of problem then they don't do so great and that's where you get complimentary systems that allow you to have the best of both worlds. I agree, I think they are certainly complimentary now but some of the larger players in that old world are going to have to adapt because as we are seeing these big data platforms are adding more and more capabilities and getting easier and easier to use and before too long they are going to be able to do a lot of the more traditional type of things that you think of in an enterprise data warehouse and that's going to leave some people, some vendors in a position where well if they don't adapt I'm not saying Oracle is going out of business anytime soon I don't think anyone is going to say that but I feel like especially Oracle they are really threatened I think by this movement because it kind of goes contrary to the way their whole business model the kind of scale up in one big machine You make an excellent point and I think a lot of the big traditional players as long as they stick to that apply the schema at the beginning when they can start to pull that application of schema farther back that's when they are going to be successful if they maintain the wall at the edge people are going to move around them and go in different directions and provide great value in terms of the things that they do but when they can apply that schema later on and provide that value rather than say no


The 2024 crypto games is less than three weeks away and hundreds of the region's best young athletes will descend on Grenada, the spice aisle for the 51st staging. Of course that will be live on Sportsmax on that Easter weekend. Some athletes have already gone through their respective trials including host nation Grenada as well as St. Kittson Nevis and Trinidad and Tobago, St. Vincent and the Grenadines and perennial champions Jamaica. Conrad Francis, president of the Grenada Athletic Association and chair of the operations committee joins us now by a zoom to discuss Grenada's readiness to host the games. Conrad, welcome to the Sportsmax zone, haven't spoken to you in a while. Talk to us quickly about the spice aisle and its anticipation of welcoming the region's best athletes for the Carifta games on the Easter weekend. How ready are you? Pleasant good afternoon to you and good old listeners to your station. I would say that we are quite ready and we are just putting the finishing touches on as you know it's just a couple of weeks away so I would say that we are ready. Yeah, I remember your first staging in 2000. I was covering those games for the Caribbean Media Corporation at the time in your brand new stadium. A lot has changed in Grenada since then and you have hosted again since then in 2016. How much would have your experiences hosting in 2000 and 2016 assisted in making sure that things work well again for 2024 because I thought they were pretty good in 2000 and 2016 as well. Are you saying that the last time you were in Grenada it was in 2000? No, I've been there since that but I've not been there. I didn't cover the 2016 Carifta games so I was just mentioning that of the two times that you've hosted it before, I was there for the 2000 hosting. I've been there since then but not for track and field. Because I was about to say that you have really missed a lot because our country has changed a lot since after Ivan in 2004 and we rebuilt our stadium in 2013 and hosted the 2016 Carifta games so again this is the third time around and we are hosting on a brand new surface. We have, through the efforts of the government, the support of the government, we are able to have the track resurface. It's a new surface. It is being on company, the same company that lead the track at Oregon and as you know that track is a fast track and so far we've had like three games on the track and the timings have been pretty fast. So we expect a high standard from the games. We expect some very good performances from our athletes. As a matter of fact, as we speak, our inter-call games is taking place and I don't know if you know that but our inter-call is the mini-version of boys and girls camps in the Southern Carolina so it's the biggest thing that you can never see in track and field. So that is taking place on the track as we speak and we are getting some very fast times so we expect that the Carifta games would be a super one. Yeah well I know some Grenadians who would not suggest that it is the mini-version of the boys and girls camps because they think it is better than boys and girls camps but I get the picture because I know how big the inter-call games are. From a local standpoint though Conrad, how strong is the Grenada track and field age group program at the moment by way of you know making a mark as the host nation because you like to see when nations host the Carifta games that they have athletes that can build up excitement for the fans not that they aren't excited about other star athletes from other countries. Our track and field program has had its highs and lows and I would say at this point in time we probably do not have the hype among the team. We cannot say that we have Anderson Peters or Hezlan Regis or Lyndon Victor in the weekend but what we are promising our fans is that if they come out they will notice and actually see some new stars will be born because our athletes they are working hard and they are eager to satisfy their home fans. The turnout I'll have to ask you how has the response been when it comes to ticket sales and just the word on the street you know are the Grenadians really excited for this event are they you know eager and coming out to support because I always find like a full state I'm not here you can you hear me now just a little better yeah so I was asking you how has the ticket sales been because you know once the turnout is big for an event like this it creates a different atmosphere I'm still not getting the just a question because I'm not hearing properly okay yeah she's just asking about the ticket sales and how is the excitement building for the event for the local fans oh okay yeah but ticket sales has been going very good so far in fact that the main stand is sold out and we have sales are picking up in the secondary provision so the main stand was just over two thousand five hundred five hundred people and then we have the features which can go two thousand and then the secondary pavilion something like two thousand two hundred and seventy three so that is picking up very well the main stand is completely is completely sold out and in the next coming days and weeks we expect that the earths will be sold out or people are a track and field people and and and they love track and field they come out to all our needs and we'll have little practice meets and and people come out and the turnout they support their athletes and we expect the same for the character games and they will not be only coming out to to support our athletes but they look at the Caribbean as the artists of the Caribbean as our athletes also so they will be cheering for for all the athletes of the of the career and career man we see because as we say to them don't miss that opportunity to see these athletes perform because these are the artists that you see in the next couple of years performing at the world level at the Olympic level so we want you to be to be there to see them so that we can see in the future when they achieve that you have been there and you saw them so we believe that they would buy that slow and come out and support our athletes whether they are Canadians Jamaicans Bahamians they will support and one important factor is that lands we have always stage successful games and athletes as well as fans as well as officials they love coming to Guinea and that is reflected in the numbers of athletes that are coming for these games in fact these games will be the biggest character games ever in terms of participants we have registered those for 780 athletes and officials to take part in the games it starts as shown us that that will be the biggest games of the character history so and a lot of fans are coming here a lot of spectators are coming in so we expect lands if you're looking for if you have a book in a hotel you may not get get a room yeah well the sportsmax team has already booked or or and reserved or or spot so there's there's there's no chance I was missing missing out missing out there but but Conrad you said something very important just now and it's the fact that a lot of our world stars and Olympic stars are born out of Carifter competition I remember in 2000 when I was there and Veronica Campbell was a very very impressive winner of the 200 meters Amadea Francis who was at time at the time the NACAC president which made him the IWF vice president it was the IWF at that time and not world athletics he predicted when he saw her running there that she would have been an Olympic champion and that you know is indelibly written in my mind when I look at some of the stars that we saw at the Carifter games and it was so easy based on the quality that you were seeing to predict that they would transition in into world stars right there in in Grenada we know of the history of Kirani James who the stadium is named after and Anderson Peters who both went on to be to be world champions and I agree with you Conrad if you can expand on that that there's no question that when the fans come out to see the Carifter games this coming Easter weekend they will be seeing some athletes in another three or four years that will be world stars we think yes lansom there has been a plethora of of athletes that were born at the Carifter games and you can you can continue to name them I mean you have the the world world medalists from from the British Virgin Islands the the hoodler right all these athletes they were they were born they were made from from from the Carifter games that's kairan master kairan master but yeah in in in fact yeah and in fact mark master started starting his hoodling career in Grenada he attended a huddle's workshop which um which coalman did for us and I think it was in 1998 you mean the Jamaican coach fits Coleman the Jamaican coach fits Coleman yeah fits Coleman and and and he was a participant in that workshop and that where he was founded so and went on to Carifter greatness and now he is a world world medalist so there are many many athletes that were born from a Carifter games and Amadio said it said it right um we can even speak about Lucien Lucien Boat he was a Carifter medalist I'll be probably not in the forward in the 100 but 200 I think and 400 leaders so it is important that our region support our athletes right and as we as we say in our team it's it's one people one region one Carifter games you're 19 you're 19 our region so it is it goes beyond beyond performances and the track you know it has the Carifter games is embedded in the politics in the in the region as as as you know if I wouldn't want to rehearse the history of the games yeah but um we all know that the games was founded by I mean born in the politician turns shaped the character after after the Carifter games you know and it really emphasizes the unity of our Caribbean region and if it's one thing that unites us after power being I don't know if I'm permitted to say that after the West Indies cricket team is is the is the Carifter games you know so I think it's a very very important factor and I think our people and knows that and they will come out and support our athletes and be there to say at least I was there when this athlete this Jamaican athlete won the hundred meters or or this um solution athlete won 100 years yeah and before you go um Conrad I want you to you you touched on it earlier on about Grenada's current strength and you did say that you have you know ups and downs during your your you know during the the the history of the Carifter games but you have 186 medals 54 gold in your history um ahead of bigger countries like Guyana and and Saint Lucia so how satisfied are you then with what Grenada has offered over the years to the Carifter games we know you have some standouts that is that is that is not in dispute but how would you measure the overall input that Grenada has been able to to apply as far as Carifter games track and field is concerned yeah yeah our effort has been tremendous over the years and for a small country just 100,000 in population we believe that that the contribution that we have made for the Carifter games is enormous and and that is exemplified for the more you know success at the at the world level because all of our athletes who will reach elite standard and have won medals at whether it's Olympics or World Championships they were product of of our Carifter team and it speaks to to our structure we have a very good structure in Grenada and it is it is very similar to that of of Jamaica where where all our schools from even preparing these schools they have their track meets and our season is packed is packed with track meets and people come out and support and give these athletes give these athletes support so we have a very defined pathway for all our athletes and and we provide the competition for them can we do more I will say yes there's always room at the top and we are always I'm willing and there to support our athletes and and develop programs so that we can on earth more more talented athletes we have a very rich history at the Carifter games from the very first Carifter games I think it was in 1972 I think only six countries participated the other six or eight countries participated in that games and Grenada was one of those because as you know as we have celebrated our 100th anniversary this year so we have been formed a very very long time and our people have been participating in track and field events and our history will show that right through right of at the very first Carifter games you won six medals at Eros Repia won the Javelin which last it was a record which lasted for over over almost 30 something years right and we had Marish Williams winning the five thousand in 1981 that was only broken by by your Jamaican star star over the Carifter games his name just slipped me now Campbell would it be Campbell Kimora Campbell Kimora Campbell yeah so so we have laid a real foundation at the Carifter games and it has that has put us above most of of our OECS countries and as a matter of fact in in in in the year 2001 we came second behind Jamaica with with 22 medals and then the next year in the Bahamas we were third where we won the most medals ever 22 22 medals so our contribution towards the Carifter games is is well documented and we think that that this year we will we will put on a very good performance at this point I cannot see we're going to we're going to do this or we're going to do that and I leave it for our people to come out share our athletes on give them your support and at the end of the day they will be satisfied with our team performances yeah I think that's a that's a good way to put the lid on this discussion Conrad always a pleasure talking to you and all the best with your local organizing committee and getting things ready for the Carifter games as we said to our viewers sportsmax will have live coverage of the Carifter games so that Easter weekend Saturday through to Monday and we'll be in touch Conrad and all the best to you and your team and hopefully the Carifter games will be as big and as exciting as it has always been thanks yeah thank you Lance and it is a pleasure and and we're looking forward to welcome sportsmax in covering cover the games we are preparing well for you yes and we hope that you you will enjoy we will I'm sure we'll be back with more on the sportsmax zone after this


The story was so that me and my co-founder we met at the university here in Finland And we both had the same experience with music education. He wanted to play guitar I wanted to play piano and neither of us was successful in learning Because the means for me private lessons didn't work out the way I wanted it So I quit after about a year or two and it turns out that happens to most people actually who start to play an instrument They use lose the motivation early and and then they quit playing and we thought well somebody should do something about it And so the first thing that we built was a product for children to motivate them to practice on their instruments It was a very cute game that had animals and so on and we launched at slash in 2011 And we were on the big pitching stage and we did win that competition, which was awesome And so that's how it all got started And now that's not at all kind of what it is the children's game So can you talk a little bit about the process of yeah So what was interesting is that everyone seemed to love the product the media liked it the parents liked it But it didn't really make any money. It was an iPad app only and that is back in the days I think the idea that the parents would pay money for their Kids, I don't know services was not that big So we realized that we probably have to go after a different audience and it actually went back to the original idea Which is me and Mikko back then was like there is quite a lot of people who are actually not children who want to learn to Play an instrument or who had started at some point and given up or who still have a dusty guitar Somewhere in a in a garage and so the next product we built was really much more for an older audience It was still a very much a game. It had a character and so on and there was then the next product that we launched and Over time what we realized is that we had half of our idea wrong and half was right So the idea to use game-like features to motivate people to practice was a really good idea The idea to make a game and tell people hey look there is a game And if you play it you learn to play guitar was actually not a good idea People are genuinely looking to learn to play an instrument And so we at some point with a lot of a B testing and changing the layout and and the messaging We we came to the conclusion. We should actually not have a game that teaches to play an instrument We should have an instrument learning service and use the game like features within that and that's when we rebranded The company name we launched musician As the brand and the product and the company now have the same name and you will not find really the game name Oh, they the word game anywhere in the description. So it really is an online service that teaches people how to play an instrument so you use your real instrument and it listens to what you what you play and We still have game-like features. I mean there is still things in it That you can unlock and next level and which is educationally very important So that we don't allow users to try to play too hard songs too early because that's really frustrating So you have to unlock your way into the harder levels and you can also for example compete with other players on high Scores and see who is the best guitarist out there? And how did you like figure out that you are on to something when you when you change? I'm assuming you didn't just rebrand the company on a whim with no testing Yeah, I mean obviously we did some testing with the previous product and we realized the more we go in this direction The better it is but then of course it was a bit of a leap of faith and what was Interesting is we didn't tell anyone about this like typically would think the first thing a company does What we would try to do and we had a bit of traction and there was a bit of awareness in the market already of us That we would say hey, we are doing a new product But we didn't and the reason for that is we wanted to understand how our marketing actually works With the untracked marketing so when we for example run YouTube ads some of them people click on the ad and they download the app But you never know exactly how many of them because many people see the YouTube ad Then they open a new tab and they search for the word and they find you like this So you cannot attribute to the ad click so we never know how many people Actually find you position through our ads and this was a once-in-a-company history opportunity where nobody knew the brand We haven't told anyone no media. No nobody not even our existing users We just started running ads and so we knew everyone who comes to use issue must have heard about it through our ads So we could finally have a really nice baseline actually where to get started and funny enough the the users We then had on our previous product which was still life at the time We're all complaining to our new products by saying you guys are just copying what this other product is doing Which except that you don't have the game game look and so on Which is of course to some extent also correct and Yeah, it turned out to work really well I think people as I said and they react really positively to it I mean we would never go back. So that's the way to go and you know speaking of marketing you are Obviously in Finland where there are not a ton of consumer-facing startups You've hired about a hundred people right now including like a lot of people were in charge of marketing and promoting You know spreading the word to obviously consumers So what are the challenges? I guess being of a place where there there isn't a lot of other companies doing that Yeah, I think so in that sense I mean and as it was said in the introduction different countries have different challenges and I think in Finland we have an amazing engineering talent There is a lot of experience in B2B And hardware products as well when it comes to consumer software like direct to consumer software Services like musician one is there is very little actually and That also means there is quite little talent. I compare it a bit like if you want to The exception obviously are games So the games community here is amazing and there is a lot of good talent is a really a great cluster But for other things there is actually not that much and I compare it a bit like if you want to start an ice Okay team in Finland. It's pretty good You have like a lot of people who are a play ice, okay, and and there is the network and everything is Available if you want to start a consumer brand like musician, it's actually much harder It's like starting a baseball team So you have to find people who are let's say sporty enough If maybe from another sport and you try to train them in the direction of playing baseball And so that's a bit what we find so in the beginning We really couldn't find pretty much anyone here who has had experience Building a consumer brand a consumer software brand and marketing that consumer product From Finland and in the beginning we essentially went after we just hired very young very hungry very talented people Who didn't have any experience in this but we we trained them or we learned together? Because neither did I have any experience in this know my co-founder Mikko So that was the starting point and I think we got really far But at some point when the when the levels of our marketing reached where they are now So we spend several million dollars a month on marketing spend I mean at some point the scaling a team with young and hungry is gonna be really dangerous to put so much money into the Hands of a person who hasn't had that experience and again, nor did we and that's at least one of the things we now did I mean in the beginning you start importing people So we try to actually find people to move over to Finland who have that experience and that work for some roles And it was harder from other for other roles But now we actually in the beginning of this year we opened an office in New York Specifically for that reason so in New York There is a lot of talent who have actually done and have run marketing campaigns and marketing At this level at this scale and so we have a team of about ten people now in New York Yeah, it's so interesting to hear you talk about your challenges finding marketing people because being based in New York a lot of a long time I often hear a lot about how hard it is to find engineers and how it's just marketing people everywhere Perhaps an exchange program An exchange program, I think it's to be fair I think it's also difficult to find engineers here It's definitely not as difficult as it is probably in Silicon Valley or in New York But I think the speakers just before spoke exactly about this That the lack of people who actually do software engineering now We are in that sense extremely fortunate as a company for one strange reason and that reason is that in my generation And so I'm not from Finland. I'm from Switzerland originally and but in my generation and that actually does include me There is a lot of Finnish people who really love heavy metal and wanted to become heavy metal guitarists And and so at some point probably turned out well, that's not the most safe or feasible career choice So let's do something else and many of them then got into coding So as he turns out there is a lot of people in this country who are really good at coding and really good at guitar And for them we are very nice and very attractive Workplace because many of our teammates or our our engineers they actually do work in such a way that they have to test the program So almost all of us have an instrument standing next to their desk a guitar and you can see people play a lot And that makes it actually really nice For us to recruit people or to hire people because a lot of Finnish engineers are really into tech obviously and really into playing an instrument And that makes musician an interesting place to work at so we have an advantage there But it's still hard and did you ever consider so a lot of times the people of trouble and they in New York hiring engineering talent end up opening Or hiring remote workers from all over the country or anything like that Did you ever consider that as a strategy? Yeah, the the remote team is an interesting one And we have actually had a couple of experiences with this But it didn't work so well for us and one of the reasons for us is it? Or what we found is that what we are doing this digital music education field there is Still I mean it's still a long way to go. I think we have invented something that's That's gonna be somewhat of a standard But there is still a long way to go so the product is not it's not clear what we should do and we still experiment a Lot with the with the what the product actually should be what the service should be how to do certain things the interaction with an instrument and the device and For all these reasons we found it's very meaningful that the team is actually together So it helps us when the audio engineers are together with the music educators with the product managers with the designers and When you separate people from each other these let's say random encounters and these crazy ideas do not happen And that's why for us the remote working hasn't worked so well and then there is another point where I I Just want to make this because I actually really like working I like our company and a lot of us do as well So yes, it can be convenient occasionally to work from home yet that you get a delivery or something else But we actually want the team to come together because it's actually nice to come to a really nice office We have a stage there. We have really cool people. We go for lunch together or bring in lunch so it it also creates this kind of social layer and where I mean music is one of the Wonderful forces that bring people together and that's why I understand why companies make the rationale of doing remote Teams because they can't fire the talent But for us that felt always a bit strange because our goal as a company is actually to bring people together And when we opened the New York office the first thing we wanted to do is actually make sure that we have Quite a few employees so they can start building this thing there as well a sort of community I mean we are not a family We are still a company, but it's actually nice to hang out and as I said before it's not just with the engineers like almost everyone in our team Excluding the founders weirdly enough play very well instruments or not I mean many it are really good and are really into music and that creates something that at least after work a lot of People actually do things together in the Helsinki office. We actually play quite a lot the New York team They more go to concerts or they have DJs there and and that is something that is actually nice to bring people together We do have one person working remotely in Australia so technically we have three offices one in Europe one in the US And one in Australia But that was a weird story because James was one of our most active users and he was super engaged and At some point we asked him to do a song for us then he came over we really love the guy and today He's in charge of the music education program for the guitar and he's doing a phenomenal job and we see him every once in a while But that's the exception I we are not hiring remote people other than in our offices anymore And is that more of a solitary project like shaping the program for guitar? Or is there a reason that that particular position works well? I Think it works well for two reasons one is it is fairly clear what has to be done the feedback mechanisms I mean we we obviously we get all the data based on the learning Experience of the user so you can look at the data and see where are the problems in our syllabus are some songs too hard or some Videos not good to explain what you're supposed to do next so you actually have the data and it's quite clear where the holes are I think that's one of the reasons and then making the music making the exercises coming up with the syllabus ideas and so on It's still a lot of individual work actually so that's the one reason the other reason is James is a very social guy as well So he connects very well with the other educators here And and that's why they can make it work And yeah, it's at some point the team actually wanted to build up some kind of a robot that James bought so we could Actually have him at our office. We try to fly him over every once in a while It's hard to bring somebody from the from the beaches of Australia to Finland at least during this part of the season But he's joining us for the YA to Conference that we organize every year about which we are I think gonna talk about as well yeah, and Kind of this idea of working together you actually take one step further than most companies You just got back from the Caribbean where you spent the month working with your entire team of 100 people Who you brought all of them With you and work together. Yeah, it's at the moment easy to spot the musician team members in the audience because we are the ones with the 10 so yes, that's what we do and I think it actually relates also be to the to the To our philosophy and education company and we also believe very strongly in investing in our team and team education now One way that we have found that works really well is actually connecting our team with experts from different companies They may not be competitors, but they are doing similar things and So yes, we take our whole team for one month abroad We have done this now the fifth time so the first time when we did it we were about 10 people and we Rented the villa in Greece and we flew everyone there and for one month We just worked from Greece all we need for our work is a laptop internet connection and Instruments and that are all things that you can bring so we spent a month there And then it worked so well the team really liked it It was great for the team spirit and getting people together and so we did it every year So after Greece we went to Thailand to Tenerife last year We were in Bali and just like on Sunday I returned from from Kura saw in the in the Caribbean where we were now a hundred people and it's it's I mean It's becoming different challenges and so on but it's actually quite amazing to take the team there and to I mean Obviously we do work there, but the first for three weeks But the first week is a very different week that one we fully Dedicated to professional development of the team. So what we have done is we have invited guest speakers Who join us for a week. So last year we had I mean one of the speakers here at slush This year Casey Winters He was the head of growth at Pinterest and grab up was there somebody from uber was there We invited an active user from our user community to join us this year We had head of growth from Duolingo the language learning service. We had a UX lead UX designer from Netflix and Google and then again one very active user And so the idea is on the first day of that week my whole team essentially sits in a conference room and these people present From their perspective like what they have done at Duolingo or at Netflix Or then what is their experience with users so that our team understands who they are what's their background what they know What they're interested what they're talking about so that's day one and the other four days of the first week We organize workshops where the team can work on different concepts and they can invite these speakers So for example our growth team was off obviously really excited to actually sit down with Gina From Duolingo and talk like okay. What are the commonalities between language learning and music learning? What could we learn from you of course the other way as well? And it's actually really nice that for once you don't have you know a one-hour meeting slot Allocated but you can actually say let's sit down in the morning and go through our marketing and what we do and what you Do at Duolingo. Let's go for lunch. And so that's week number one that is fully dedicated to professional development The developers they are also hacking and they have some hackday projects and things like this And then the remaining three weeks are we do just normal work We just do them from a from a beautiful setting But they are normal work as in the teams get back together and they continue on their roadmap and so taking 100 people to the Caribbean for a month is obviously pretty expensive Yes And so when like your investors say hey Chris like why is this why is this worth it? What are we getting from it? What do you say? Well, I have two answers to them one is I actually do not have to justify this to our investors because we made it from The beginning very clear that we have a clear hierarchy of priorities number one is the user and our company mission Number two is our company culture and our team and only number three is the shareholders value Which is if we find something that we that we want to do and we believe it beneficial for the team and the users We do it anyway, so our investors have never questioned this, but yes, it is true It is quite expensive to do this thing And it is it would be difficult to really put a dollar sign on okay So what though so we invest somewhere between one and a half and two thousand euros it costs per employee to do this including flights and the accommodation and It would be quite hard to actually measure the bottom line But how you can see it is just in the team spirit as we get back how much you know the connections And as a company grows to a hundred people what typically happens and I'm pretty sure that happens in most companies at some point You still cluster the back-end engineers spend time with the back-end engineers and the marketers with the marketers in our case The New York team obviously with the New York team and so on and what is very beautiful obviously when you're in the Caribbean I mean the work days are the work days, but then there is still the evenings and the weekends and some people are really active they go hiking and kiting and diving and All these active activities and they are not correlated to the profession So now suddenly you have completely different groups of people Spending time together getting to know each other and what is really nice and what I can see now being back this week Is that the groups have in a way changed so people go with different people for lunch and hang out with different people and that is something I think as the company grows and the Communication between different departments it becomes very expensive when the one side of the company doesn't know what the other one is isn't Is doing or not doing so I believe there is a lot of value in this one and Then there is still the part where also you have to you have to leave what you preach So we our company's mission is to make musicality as common as literacy and we believe we can bring a lot of Value and joy to people who learn to play an instrument. It's a wonderful thing And when you sometimes see these cheesy images of you know a group of friends hanging out at the beach and playing an instrument That's what we do and that's what we do almost every evening in this month And we had the most epic jam session that I wasn't there for the whole time It started at five in the evening. It was on Friday the last of the first week It started at five and apparently people were still jamming at four in the morning So that was just amazing. So this thing actually happened and I think every once in a while It's actually really nice to recognize of the value that we try to provide to our users. We can experience it ourselves So there is also this part to be fair I think for myself personally and I know for many of my teammates this trip That we take every year is among the highlights of the professional year You get to know your colleagues better. You get out of the weather from Finland You get to spend some good time at the beach and you get to jam a lot and do you think that? And I like that you said that everybody's musically talented except for the co-founders So you got I mean, which is good because you have to test the product Otherwise they wouldn't know because you're supposed to be learning when you use it And I think the irony is this applies to almost everything So I have a funny story about this when we started the company and in the first year We we we tried to raise money because neither of us also couldn't code So we couldn't do that we couldn't do music. We couldn't do that We couldn't teach we didn't have any really relevant experience And so we were trying to find investors and we really couldn't but there was one One meeting with an investor. I still remember very well And it was so we just started it says like also you do music education So you guys are music teachers and we're like no it's like I saw your musicians and we're like Actually, no, I saw your audio engineers and we know and you know It's like in a job interview when all the questions they ask and you're like actually no And it just went on so you have talent business before no no no and then in the end We were really like we felt quite bad like none of the answers we gave to that investor was satisfactory or we felt it was and Then his answer was like that's brilliant This is where innovation comes from when completely new and fresh minds think about an old problem So this is really great and it was actually quite nice to hear that and we asked him like so Are you gonna invest and he said oh no, no, no, that's that's a different topic But I love that you guys are doing it and so the whole company is actually built around the idea that Since we know that we do not know our job is not to try to invent the future Our job is to find the very best people that we can in each area games education software engineering Music and let them do their job get out of their way and for me Actually, it's quite nice to still remain the naive person who is coming and sees this product and says listen guys I know you have studied music for many many years. I haven't I don't understand what you're talking about here If I don't understand it our users won't most likely won't either So let's make this simpler and I think it's actually a nice position to be in Unfortunately, we're out of time, but thank you so much for for talking thank you much for the interview And thanks for having me and have a nice day


Ok, hola. Well, first of all, I just wanted to say thanks for this conference. It's my first time and have been really cool to be here and to share this experience. I don't know if you were in the talk from illustration to animation by Nacho Arjona. He made this joke about Nachos and I made the same joke in my presentation because I'm also called Nacho, actually Ignacio but in Spain is the same name. So yeah, I studied theoretical physics but I never had the chance to actually go into that field because I discovered Blender and that kind of moved me away from that. Well, I have a YouTube channel, kind of, well that's my cat, not my YouTube channel. Well, I also have a cat that is very cute and that's my YouTube channel where I upload some of my stuff. I like to work with procedural stuff. So yeah, I make some nice stuff with geometry notes. It's like a press that I made procedurally. It's a very short video, I'm sorry. And also I make some more disgusting stuff that I like. It's like Seder procedurally. Ok, so today I'm here to talk to you about sea dynamics without fluid simulations. It's not the most interesting topic but yeah, maybe you enjoy it. My Spanish accent might help through it. Ok, why did I get into this? When I was studying my bachelor in physics, I was kind of unmotivated in the last year. So was COVID, lockdown and stuff. And I was seeing all the possible topics that I could choose. And all of them were really, really tough. Like, I don't know, like quantum field theory, bosons, stuff like that. And I was not in the mood to get into dedicating six months of my life of that. And then I found one of the possible thesis that was animating a ship moving in the ocean. And I was like, well that seems a little bit easier, at least I understand what is saying. So yeah, that's how I get into that. And then I have some conversations with my thesis supervisor, all my teachers and stuff. They show me how we were going to face the problem. And yeah, how it was going to be. And then they show me the software that we were going to use to animate. And it would look something like this. So yeah, I was not in like 3D un stuff by them, but I knew that this was looking really bad and I didn't want to have something like this. So I did a little bit of research on which software I could use to improve this. I went to Maya, Cinema 4D, also Houdini. And then I found Blender. And it was free, all this community with all these tutorials that I know that they were going to help. And yeah, also with animation notes by then that could make all these solvers for physics. So yeah, I proposed them to do it in Blender instead and they let me do it. Yeah, now why without fluid simulations? Why did I decided to go through the process without a proper fluid simulation? Well, it's not that I have anything against fluid sims. I think that they are really cool if you know how to do them. They are a little bit time consuming, but anyway. But I feel that if you can find a way to get a similar result in a different way, yeah, maybe it's worth it to give it a try. I don't know if you have seen this procedural river that they have done with geometry notes. Yeah, so I think that if you can get that through geometry notes instead of through like a proper fluid sim with the river that might be a mess to do, well, that's more, that might be better. So now I wanted just to go briefly through what is a fluid sim, what is like the physics behind it. So, yeah, it's kind of like, we can understand what is behind it and why it's so intense. So we have, well, this is mid-journey. I put just some pictures of mid-journey if you feel that they are kind of weird. So we have a fluid and we want to know how it's going to move. Physically we will apply the Navieres-Tox equation that is there. I don't know if you are familiar with these mathematical notations, but basically it's going to tell you how the pressure of the fluid is going to change in space and time. The pressure is this thing that when you dive, it hurts your ears. So yeah, it's going to tell you how it changes. Then when you have that, you have everything that you need. Then you can calculate the force that this fluid would act or exert, I don't know if the word is exert, on any type of object, like a boat. So problems of this way of facing the problem is that these equations are really difficult to solve in paper. So this means exactly. It's actually one of the seven million price problems. So these are like seven mathematical problems that if someone solved them, they would get like a million euros so like I think fame and glory for all your life. Exactly you need to prove either that a smooth globally defined solution exists that meets certain conditions or that they do not always exist and the equations break down. I don't know if I don't really know what is the meaning of this phrase, but you can see that this kind of like a really hard problem. Also for practical, if you are a 3D artist and you want to go through fluid themes, going through the exact solutions is not the best way. So what we do is we discerticize the space. We don't think about the space as an infinite number of points. We just think about like a grid that when you make a fluid theme there is always like a grid that appears there. So yeah, once that you do that you can actually compute this stuff and you can have like a fluid theme working. Then if you want to also calculate how much this fluid is acting on an object so the pressure how is affecting it you can't also think about the object as a real object. Like this means like made by infinite numbers of atoms. Well not infinite but a lot of atoms. So you need to simplify the object. In 3D we always do that right because you need to create an object made of faces. So a face is a simplification of how the reality is. Once that you have this you can really make the computations more efficient. Yeah, and here is like a little preview of what you will have. It's like all these forces on its face of the object by the way this is always perpendicular to the normal. And yeah, then when you have all the forces you can add them and you know how is the global effect on the object. Well, as far as I know Blender doesn't let you do a fluid effect in a rigid body. So if you drop something on a fluid you can make it like a collision so it will like make splashes and stuff on the fluid but the rigid body will go through it without changing anything. But Houdini lets you do it so I imported Susan there and I made a little try and you can see that definitely gets some reaction and it looks good. But yeah, then it wants to come back home. So, okay. Proxen cons of this method well the process obviously having a high resolution fluid working physically based can be super cool. But then, well then also you have the interaction and stuff but yeah, then can be really expensive. I have here like an example from Vinny that is over there of like one of these fluid seams. It's done in Blender so it doesn't have the rigid body stuff. But I think that it took like 12 hours to render to cast 12 hours to render and he send me the file it was like version 5 so he went through this at least 5 times, right? This is like version 37. So, I assume it was not very straight forward process but looks really good if you wanna follow this path. Okay, so now another way of having like a boat reacting to water is cheating it. Here I have like a video of how you can do it. You can just take a point on the ocean then you copy the position of your object there so you will follow it and then you can add some noise and some, yeah, like some noise in the location, in the rotation. So at the end it will look like it's floating. Well, here is me just having a little bit of OCD with how I organize the notes. But yeah, at the end it looks that it's floating. So it kind of works, very easy. There is a nice tutorial about this by Pixel3D. He does it in a different way now with geometry notes. But yeah, you can check it out. So pros and cons of this method, pros is quick and easy. And cons is not physically based. Might need tweaking because yeah, you put some noise so might do something that looks like it can look weird. And there is no interaction between the object and the fluid so there is no splashes and stuff like that. But you can always add some dynamic paint compositing or maybe some meta balls going around it and can look better. Ok, so now my approach was not using this cheating method but just simplifying the fluid simulation. What I mean with this is like, well, there was this guy, I don't know if you recognize him, he is Archimides and he made this principle that is like the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid whether fully or partially is equal to the weight of all the fluid that the body displays. So this means that we can substitute all these forces acting on the surface of the boat and also the fluid seems by just one operation is calculating the volume of the object under the water just calculating the weight of the water that would be there and that's the force that is upwards. So yeah, that's definitely efficient. And pros of this method is physically based, it's quick, it's adaptable, can work in every situation but again there is no interaction of the fluid, there is no splashes and particles. But yeah, as I said can be always fake. Ok, so at this point of my thesis I was feeling really good, I was like, well, I find a way to do it, it's going to work really good and then I was also kind of thinking that I was the only one that thought about this, a little bit nice and then I saw this in GTA V and yeah, definitely this was a simulation, it's physically based and it's working in real time because it's a video game. So yeah, I kind of decided to research how the people in game development would go through that problem and I found this article called Water interaction model for boats in video games that basically explain you how to create a solver for real time in boats in video games. I learned a lot from it and then it kind of changed the perspective of this problem from kind of just doing whatever I could to making a real time solver in blender kind of video game style. Ok, so now I just wanted to introduce you of how the physics behind the method and how to implement them in blender in particular with geometry notes, not everything but almost everything. Ok, so yeah, so if you were bored before, now you are going to be much bored because it's just like rigid body physics. So sorry about that. Ok, so movement of a rigid body. A rigid body is kind of easy, it's not like a soft body because the distance between the points of the object are always constant in a soft body they change, so you need much more variables. You will have translation and rotation. So you can have an object translating then rotating and then the combination of both. You know about this, this is like animation. But for simulation this is nice because we can separate the two problems and treat them as separate pieces. So yeah, let's do that for the translation. An object moves because there are forces acting on them. If there are no forces, things don't move. If you have like a pen, you drop it, it falls because there is the gravity, right? If I push the computer it will move because I'm pushing it. So the force is a vector and if you have the vector you have the movement. Here I have an example, the force is the arrow and yeah, just because of that the object will move and you can solve the equations and it's like a straightforward process. There are three types of forces that can act on a boat. One is the weight of the boat, obviously. The other one is the friction with the water and the other one is the buoyant force, the archimedes one. The first two are straightforward. I'm not going to explain them and I'm just going to go with the archimedes one. So for the archimedes we need the volume under the water. For calculating that we just need to know which part of the object is under the water and these with geometry notes it's kind of easy to do, it's just a Reika's note. There is a part over there with the vector rotate that is just... because if the object is going to be rotating how it's called, the ray direction of the Reika's note needs to kind of balance to be always pointing in the global space upwards. So yeah, once you have that you need to calculate the actual volume of the object under the water. So how I thought that I could do this was just going face by face and calculating the volume of the water that is just on top of that face. So that means that it's kind of like extrusion and then you just have the distance over there from the face to the surface and then how much tilt there is on the face. So if the face would be perpendicular to the water there is no volume there. So you need to take that into account. So yeah, the volume would be the area of the face with the cosine of the tilt and then the distance. And this having can be done in geometry notes. You can see over there the Reika's note that will calculate the distance from the face to the water. That one is easy and the other one you just take... I don't know if you see from there. You just multiply the face area and then you just do like a dot product of the normal with the vertical direction and yeah, you just multiply both then attribute the statistic to add all of them so you have the total volume and you just store the attribute and then you have it there for forever, the volume. Yeah, here I have... Now once you have this you can solve the equations and here I have two examples with different parameters. This is without friction in the water. It's kind of weird, but how it would be if the water doesn't have friction and then a little bit more realistic with friction. It doesn't look still very good, but yeah, you see that it's reacting at least to the water. Ok now for the rotation. The rotation is a little bit more tricky because you need more things. You need the forces, but that's nice because we already have them and you need the point of application of the forces. So if I have here a pen, it's not the same if I apply a force here. It's not going to rotate. If I apply it here, it will rotate. So it's important to know where this force is applied. And that's what in physics we call a torque. You also then need to calculate the inertia of the object. This means it's not the same to rotate this pen like this than like this. This one is less... You need less force, less torque to rotate it. Here there is like a video dedicated teacher explaining it. So when he's with the arms extended, he's rotating slower and then he's with the arms like this, he's rotating slower because there is less inertia. Ok, so how we can calculate first the point of application because the force we already have it. For doing that we need to calculate the center of mass of the part of the boat that is sunken in the water. Well, Bender, if you just right click in the object, you can always set the origin to the center of mass or the surface. So you don't go under these calculations. But what is behind is just like that formula over there that is telling you just like go through all the faces of the object and do an operation. The operation is multiply the position of that face with the area and just add them all and then divide by the total area. And doing that you just have the center of like the point of application or the center of mass. Again this can be done in geometry notes the yellow part is just like you just take the face area and attribute the statistic and you add all of them and you have it. And then for the other part you have the over there the position again you have to rotate it to have like some consistency with the global space you just scale that position with the face area attribute the statistic to add them all and that's all. Then you have the position of the center of mass of the sunken part. Cool. Then for the inertia it's kind of like the same calculation it's the same process but instead of doing the operation of just the position of each area you have to do that it's the same but with different numbers I'm going to put it in geometry notes because it would be kind of like the same. If you have any questions you can ask me and I will show you. Here I have an example of just the rotation how will react to the water Again this depends on some parameters so maybe it's moving a little bit more faster but you can always tweak that. And here is the as I said before the composition of both Ok, so I explained how we how we get all the parameters I didn't explain how we actually get the change of position of the object and the rotation in time That's done with that thing over there that is a differential equation I don't know if you are familiar with that stuff but yeah I wanted to solve this in geometry notes It's not possible because you need to loop and you need to store some variables It would be really cool to have it there maybe in the future but yeah for now you need to write a script to do it It's not very complicated but yeah maybe one day everything is integrated and we can have solvers there Ok Now this last part my presentation is kind of last moment I kind of finish it this morning so it's still working process and it's about well my idea was well by the way I did all these 2 years ago in animation notes and now I did it again in geometry notes so I face this problem 2 times in different ways Anyway the idea was to have a real time solver video game style in blender for boats in water so I was thinking it would be cool with eeve we would have also real time rendering and then they come up with this real time compositor in blender 3.4 so that was also a big thing because then I could have the whole pack there in the viewport in real time so I maybe went a little bit or the line with this but yeah I just wanted to see this like BFX breakdown of black saves it's called the series I don't know if you have seen it I haven't but the BFX looks pretty good and yeah what is behind like a professional simulation of a ship in the water so we will have like a fluid sim I'm not going to have that on eeve because I'm using dark images principle not fluid sims and then you have obviously say there's some rain overlay backgrounds, volumetrics color corrections, less distortion etc so yeah maybe I could try to have something like this on eeve obviously it's not going to look like this but just kind of get inspired by it so yeah now I'm going to go to blender and show you first the simulator with some examples and then the real time eeve thingy now is when blender crashes and everything goes wrong but yeah ok I need to change some stuff with the projector so one second oh I can't see my screen now ok good so here is the simulator I made it like a little bit user friendly there also one thing of how I move on time ok one thing that I hate about proper solvers is that they have so many parameters I don't know you have been working with Houdini but in Houdini you can have like a stiffness, damping but like seven times in the same solver so it's like what is going on so I just made two parameters that are like the ability, that is just how heavy is the object if it is still kind of sunk and if it is one it will bounce away and then the buoyancy that is how much friction there is in the water so how much kind of relax the movement so ok so if I would click simulate well it's not working in real time I think no yeah it is ok so yeah if you can see it the cool thing about this is like I could also now so I could play with it so yeah it's kind of working nice I can also just to the ship to go away and it will fly ok so that's one I'm going to show you some more here is Susan makeship and yeah well now you see that it's sinking so I will need to change the floatability a little bit up so yeah also the buoyancy maybe another example here with this one I wanted to make the donut of the blender guru but I didn't have time well here you can see that maybe it's a little bit more of mass like the and also the buoyancy is too high so maybe going with this down will make it ok so yeah this is like the solver now let's go to the real time easy thingy that I made with blender 3.4 and yeah this is like real time in the viewport I made this a little like very quickly some compositing with some overlays the rain overlay that I used was very crappy so it looks really bad I blew it a lot but yeah here you can see maybe some people here know much more about compositing than me but yeah it's kind of cool that you can now well when blender 3.4 is around that you can just play around in the viewport just composite everything I have your own scene there yeah I still need to there is intersection between the boat and the water so that doesn't look very good but yeah this is how it's working in blender and now I'm going to finish the stand now you are not seeing the presentation maybe a problem well anyway yeah this is it thank you very much