تشرف بل اشتغالي بالعلم ولا تبغي به ما عشت يا دادا دادا وياله من شراف عظيمي هذا حديث بخاري نريت it as well not just Muslim بخاري نريت it in two places he narrated it in Kitab al-Tawheed and he narrated it in Kitab al-Tafseer and what's very powerful is that the fact that Bukhari narrated this particular hadith in Kitab al-Tawheed what does it show you that this matter is a Tawheed related issue it's a Tawheed related issue لأن البخاري رحمه الله he's the Tartibat of his abwab and the Qutub, the way he authored it all of them show the fiqh of Imam al-Bukhari رحمه الله all show the fiqh of Imam al-Bukhari one of the things that we take from this hadith and the reason why this author the author of Imam al-Qutb he actually brought this hadith to prove Allah has a what Allah has a Qadam and that Allah has a Rigel that's why he brought this narration and that the Qadam is a what it's a Sifah that is attached to Allah not a Sifah فعالية because the Sifah فعالية is it is connected to مشيئة الله رادا this Sifah is a Sifah ذاتية it's connected to Allah but also the other thing that we take from this hadith is the people who are going to enter the Hellfire the people who are going to enter the Hellfire that this hadith mentions يدخولوني الجبابرة والمتكبرون the people who are arrogant the people who are arrogant who are self-deluded who are boastful who are proud they will enter the Hellfire and this is the type of people the Hellfire takes and Allah تبارك وتعالى in the Quran he mentions to us that the people were deviated and go against Allah تبارك وتعالى's command and Allah تبارك وتعالى doesn't allow the Haq to enter the heart of the arrogant people الله سلم صورة العراف سأصرف عن آياتية الذين يتكبرون في الأرض بغير الحق I deviate my verses away from الذين يتكبرون في الأرض those who are arrogant on the face of this earth بغير الحق without any rightful reason وزو الله تبارك وتعالى he says فالذين لا يؤمنون بالآخرة قلوبهم منكرة وهم مستكبرون صورة النحل الله تبارك وتعالى he says الله تبارك وتعالى فالذين لا يؤمنون بالآخرة they don't believe in the hereafter قلوبهم منكرة they are heart of the arrogant وهم مستكبرون their heart are rejecting everything that has been put towards it they can't accept the truth even if it comes to them why? وهم مستكبرون is because they are arrogant and then Allah says الله يعلم Allah knows what they are hiding and what they are bringing out in the open then Allah says they are arrogant and you all know today subhan Allah if you look at the atheists one of the سفات which are bariza from the characteristics that are very apparent from them is what arrogance and أهلوا البداعة like that as well they are very arrogant and that is why Allah diversity the verses from entering their hearts also الله تبارك وتعالى he tells us الله تبارك وتعالى from this verse and the point I want is وَلَا تُصَعِلْ خَدَّكَ لِنَّاسْ people who are arrogant who turn their cheek away from the people they kind of look at the people when they are talking to them out of arrogance وَلَا تَبْشِيْ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحَةَ walking on this earth you see how these artists and these rappers nowadays have kind of introduced this way of walking وَلَا تَبْشِيْ فِي الْأَرْضِ مَرَحَةَ he falls under a classic you see it's self-deluding and boastful and also nowadays everybody wants to brag and boast even rapping and everything all of that is a keeper yeah it's a keeper الله says rather Allah tells us in the Quran that the day of judgment and jannah is for the people who are humble and simple you see not for the people who want to be high they want to be arrogant he says in Surah Al-Qasas تلك الدار الآخرة the day of judgment is for the people who do not want high they don't want to be put in a high station in this earth you see they don't want corruption الله says الله says الله يطبع على كل قلبي متكبر جبار and like that الله seals the heart of every متكبر and جبار and this is what it says يدخولون الجبابرات والمتكبرون the tyrant, arrogant person الله seals his heart والله every evidence is given to him every point is mentioned to him and you still see him سبحان الله he still doesn't think because the heart is sealed if we look at the Hadith of the Prophet أحمد أحمد you see أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد أحمد ما يبكيك يا عب عبد الرحمن يا عب عبد الرحمن what's making you cry and then he said why are you crying and then he said and then he said he said he said he says that he heard the messenger who was in his heart who was in his heart who was in his heart who was in his heart who has a musted seed of arrogance in his heart الله will take his put him in the hellfire head first و لذلك there's a narration in Muslim which strengthens this meaning also and Imam would tell me denarrated it on the authority of Abdullah ibn Mas'ud رضي الله تعالى عنه لده بصم عالي سمس لا يدخلوا الجنة من كان في قلب يمثقالوا ذرتي من كبر the person who has a musted seed of arrogance in his heart و لتانت جنة and then a man came up he said فقال رجل إنه رجل يحبوا أن يكون أمان سليار رسول الله أمانك ستس is one who likes his shoes to look good his clothing to look good he likes to a pain nicely and then the prophet said الله is beautiful and Allah loves beauty but then the prophet defined what arrogance is it's the rejection of the truth when it comes to you and it is also belittling the people belittling a person the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم told us on the authority of Abu Huraira رضي الله تعالى عنه قال الله الله سبحانه وتعالى said و العظمة إزاري arrogance is my رداة رداة is what the upper garment of the clothing و العظمة إزاري and majestic is my isar the lower garment فمن أزعني واحد منهم anyone who disputes with me on any of these any of the two قدفته في النار I will throw him into the fire for Hellfire some other rewires they say I'll punish him you see another rewires و ألقيته في النار I will throw him into the Hellfire another narration says ألقيته I will throw him into the Hellfire حضيفة من اليمن و لسه أثر و لسه حديث is in مسلم أحمد all of the rewires in that chain are all rewires صحيح بخاري المسلم except other than him but it's authentic he said we will win the message in a janaza we will win the message in a janaza I will tell you the worst of the creation of Allah and the prophet SAW الفضل المستكبر the harsh arrogant one and the prophet SAW I will tell you the worst of the creation of Allah the weak the weak one the weak one لو أقسم على الله لابر مباشرة is not attractive the way he comes across is not beautiful you see his weak in the eyes of the people he is belittled أما مسلم narrated نساء narrated or the authoritative of Huraira that the prophet SAW لا يكلمهم الله يوم القيامة ولا يزكيهم ولا ينظر إليهم و لهم عذاب و أليم three Allah will not speak to them Allah will not purify them مغلق وحتمجه them is a severe punishment شيخ زانين اي شيخ who commit Zina means an old man who commit Zina there is no need for you to commit Zina وملكن كذب and a king who is a liar you don't need a liar Yeah Why would a shach who is old in age have to commit Zina There is no shach who are pushing him وملكن كذب and also a leader Why he have to lie for لا يوجد شيء ، إنه مجموعة for the people وعائل المستقبر and a poor arrogant person Poor arrogant individual هذه were the ayat and the hadith إذا أردت هذه السلفة وصحابة أردت أن أبو بكر السديق مثل ما قلت وقلت ما قلت إنه لا يحقر أن أحد أحد لا يجب أن أحد منكم أحد فإلا صغير المسلمين كبيرون عند الله لأن المسلم صغير إنه أكثر في العقل محمد ابن الحسن ابن علي ابن أبيض طالب الذي قلت أبو بكره أو أبو بكره أو محمد هو أبو بكره وقلت ما دخل قلبة لا يجب أن يدخل أحد من الشيء شيء أم من الكبري أي أردنس أو أي شيء أنقص من عقلي بقدر ما دخل من ذلك قل or كاتل لا يجب أن يدخل لا يجب أن يدخل أي أردنس إلا أنه يدخل أردنس بسبب كم much أردنس يدخل كما قلت before my beloved brothers and sisters one of the things that are very common now is the concept of ختيال ختيال is self-deluding الله mentions that in the Quran إن الله لا يحب من كان مختالا فخورا مختال الله also says سبحانه وتعالى he said that in Surah Al Nisa in Surah Al Luqman إن الله لا يحب كل مختالا فخورا again and that point I need to bring it which is the concept of how many youngsters and youths walk nowadays that they should remember حديث الصحيحين بخاري المسلم when the Prophet SAW said بينما رجل يتبخ في بورديني حديث الصحيحين بالحديث أبو هريرا that a man who was wearing he was wearing two burdaini two clothing yeah and he's walking enjoying himself like the way he's walking you know with an arrogant walk to his walk وقد أعجبته نفسه when he's fascinated with himself the way he is and everything خسفت به الأرض فهو يتجل فيها إلى يوم القيامة and he will be dwelling deep into the earth until the day of judgment بخاري المسلم both are narrated the Prophet SAW told us another concept that many people need to understand ولكنت يدخلوني الجبابرة والمتكبرون is the Musbil the one whose government is below is uncool because the Sahih Muslim the Prophet SAW لا ينظر الله لا ينظر الله إلى من جر ثوبه خيلا لا ينظر الله the one who pulls his garment out of arrogance with me so the one who has his garment below is uncool and he's doing this based on arrogance الله will not look at in the day of judgment and he falls يدخلوني الجبابرة والمتكبرون now pay attention can a person wear a garment below his ankles without arrogance we say here لا ينظر الله إلى من جر ثوبه خيلا that I am not doing it out of arrogance we'll say to you if you do it out of arrogance this hadith applies on you that Allah is not going to look at you in the day of judgment but if you say I am not doing it out of arrogance then you have another punishment for you which is what ما أسفل من الكعبيني ففي الله anything that's below the ankles is in the hellfire so that punishment still stands for you so whatever reason you do it if you do it out of arrogance then you get لا ينظر الله إلى من جر ثوبه خيلا if you say no I'm not doing it out of arrogance rather I'm doing it out of what norms fine then we say to you then what your foot is going to be in the hellfire anything below the ankles is going to be in the hellfire also بيهاك is narrated in his سنن that the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم has said من تعظم في نفسي anyone who sees himself to be great and high and up big أو اختال or he's he's self deluding himself في مشيتي in his walking boastful in his walking he's proud in his walking لقي الله we will meet Allah the day of judgment وعليه غضبان Allah is angry with him he's going to be Allah angry the day of judgment عبد الله ابن عمر one day saw a man look at this he saw a man he was pulling his garment out of arrogance عبد الله ابن عمر said and he repeated that three or two or three times رادة مطرف ابن عبد الله ابن الشخير مطرف ابن عبد الله الشخير he saw المله المهلب يسوء المهلب and he was wearing a jubba you see he's wearing a big jubba and he was walking with arrogance and he saw to عبد الله ابن مطرف ابن عبد الله الشخير he saw to him يا عبد الله عبد الله ابن مطرف ابن عبد الله الشخير شخير سوهب and he went up to المهلب and he saw to him يا عبد الله oh slave of Allah هذه مشة يبغضه الله ورسوله this walking مهلب he's a walking الله and he's messing with dislike وهلب he responded to مطرف ابن عبد الله الشخير and he saw to him أمأت عريفه do you know who I am you know who I am right and then he saw to him بل أعرفوك yes I know you أولوك النطفة ومذيراتن when you first started you were a nutfa you started from me نطفة what's a nutfa in English seminal fluid seminal fluid that seminal fluid was what مهلب the man just he jumped from him he just released it nothing to him وآخيرو كجيفة مقذيراتن and when you die you're just going to be a dead flesh that has no value وانت تحملوا العذرة and now you're carrying within within those two stages not your carrying feces inside yourself فمضى المهلب مهلب walked on وترك مشته he left that type of walking from that day onwards and who is مهلب he was a Malican حسن البصري one day saw a young boy walking with a beautiful clothing that he was wearing and he, you know فدعاه حسن البصري called the boy the young boy like our youngsters the way they walk and the way they act so he called this young boy he said to يبنة هدم all the children of Adam معجمون بشبابه amazed with their youth محبوا لشمائله they love their شمائل واسب شمائل actually it's a characteristics كأن القبر قدوا كأن القبر it is like that the grave قدوا رابدنك it's like the grave has already taken you in وكأنك قد لقيت عملك that you've seen your actions that you, masha'Allah you've done everything good ويحاك destruction be with you داوي قلبك cue your heart فإن حاجة الله للعبادي صلاحوا قلوبهم because the need that Allah has for me سليب is the perfection of their hearts والاختيالوا دليلوا فسادها and self-deluding and boastfulness is an evidence of the destruction of your heart عرغنس is two types there's an arrogance which is external and internal إبن القي يمنشنز رحمه الله the internal one is what manifests on the limbs اهلو سنة بليف that what is inside comes out from whatever is inside it comes on to the limbs and that is when the person starts to see himself high and great so a person starts to have this concept in his heart first and then it starts to manifest on his limbs so in other words إبن القي يمنشنز arrogance can't occur unless there's three things in place first is إنسان المتكبر there's a person who's arrogant the second one is something he is arrogant on something there's an object there it's a human being it can be other things but he's arrogant because of towards something and the third one is the reason why he's arrogant let me say that again there has to be the person who's arrogant إنسان المتكبر the person who's arrogant and there's موجود يتكبر الإنسان وعلي something that exists that the slave has to show arrogance too and the third one is سبب لهذا الكبر reason to this arrogance if I give an example of إنسان المتكبر evidence for it it's قوله تعالى الله سبحانه و تعالى statement which is إن الذين يجادلون في آيات الله بغير سلطاني لأتاهم إن في صدورهم إلا كبر ماهم ببالغي فاستعيد بالله إنه هو السميع البصير الله says those who argue in the verses of Allah without any evidence without any proofs أتاهم that comes in في صدورهم إلا كبر in their hearts there's arrogance so there is humans who are arrogant إنسان المتكبر this ayah shows us it's an evidence that are you with me brothers are you there brothers so there's a person who's arrogant الله has stated that no one can say I'm not arrogant or there's no human that can ever be arrogant arrogance is something that is present in a human being it can be a characteristic a person come with what about موجود يتكبر الإنسان وعلي something that exists that the person becomes arrogant on to then the evidence for that إنسورة العام الله says and on the verses of Allah where you arrogant on to so you see there's something that exists that the slave has to show arrogance to so you are arrogant from the verses of Allah the proofs that will be brought to you the arguments that will be put forward to you you were shown arrogance towards that the third one which is a reason for that arrogance is as the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم has said and this is the one I mentioned right now in سنة البيحة قي that the prophet said the person who glorifies and is boastful towards himself and self-deluding in his walking اللقي الله when we meet Allah سبحانه وتعالى the day of judgment while he's angry so the reason why the person will do that is because of what his own self to be seeing it high he sees himself to mean something good the types of arrogance there are or more like the thing that a person can become arrogant to are you with me brothers if you're arrogant then you're going to be arrogant to something الملقيم says الملقيم إلى ثلاثة أقصام is categorized into three types the first one is اتكبر على الله arrogance towards Allah and that is the greatest افحش وعل تكبر it is the most evilest of the types of تكبر there is and the reason why a person would do that is سبب الجهل المحب it is pure ignorance the second one is اتكبر على الرسول so let me give you example of the first one first the first one تكبر على الله is قوله فرعون the statement of فرعون صورة النازعات when he say فقال انا ربكم الأعلى I am supreme lord also when he said ابراهيم عليه السلام when he say انا أحي الموتى I am the one who gives life and I am the one who kills also when the people of قرش وكمان to prostrate to Allah the arrogance they responded by صورة الفرقان what was it وإذا قيل له مسجود للرحمان قالوا ومر رحمان انا سجود لي با تأمرون وزادهم نفورة when it was said to them prostrate to Allah قالوا they responded ومر رحمان who is this رحمان that you are referring to انا سجود لي با تأمرون وزادهم نفورة arrogance came to them the second one is arrogance towards the messengers you see arrogance towards the messengers and that is again example of فرعون towards mousa and those who are with him ودي they say انا اؤمنوا لبشرين مثلنا وقومهم ألنا عابدون انا اؤمنوا are we going to believe in two human beings like us and their people were slaves for us before is to slave them وقومهم ألنا عابدون also the statement of كفار عرب yeah when it came to the phase of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم ودي they say if only angels were sent to us are you going to send us يمشون في الأسواق just walking in the market like us they belittled him عليه سلم are you going to come tell us that Allah sent you okay what did they also say the argument was what وقالوا لولا نزيل هذا القرآن وعلى رجل من القريتين عظيم if only this Quran was sent down to what the two قرية that were big that were great if only that Quran was sent down on it why does it have to be sent down a new Muhammad as arrogance towards the messenger عليه سلم the other one is arrogance towards the people arrogance towards the people and that is which one was that the one Iblis came with he saw that he was greater that he was greater than the creation of نبي الله you see so he believed that he's better than human beings because they're created from طين and he's created from fire this exactly is what tribalism is like a nationalism that we're better than youth Indians are better than Pakistanis Pakistanis are better than Indians Bangladeshis are better then Somalis are better than these people these people are better than these people all of that I mean this tribe is better than this tribe all of that it falls and that تكبر على الناس it is arrogance over the people I am better than you and you are lower than us it would have been a falls under it's falls under تكبر and arrogance إن شاء الله فتاعة we're going to conclude there for this class بإذن الله الكريم anything which I have said that was wrong فإنه مني و من الشيطان والله و رسوله برياني منه سبحانك اللهم و الحمدك ان شهدوا اللي الله اصتغفروا كوانتوبوا إلي


Alright, so now that we've actually visualized what the problems are and we understand what the problem is, let's take a look at actually creating a more advanced version of the follow camera that resolves these issues and maintains the distance behind the character. Okay, so let's get over into Unity and get started. All right, here we are back in Unity and we are going to create a more advanced follow camera. You know, advance is all relative when we start talking about these things, but what we want to try to solve is that issue of the distance between the character and the camera not remaining constant as the character is rotating around. So what we're going to do is we're actually going to create a new script first. So let's do that. Let's go and create a new C sharp script and I'm going to call it IP advanced. Next, follow camera. Okay, and again, I'm going to sign a little icon to it just because I like to do that with my scripts and it's a good practice to get into. Again, like I said before, in the previous video, it helps you identify which scripts are yours. If you're building a framework and it just separates it from other scripts that you would pull in from other asset packs. So let's go and actually launch this script in mono develop. Okay. Awesome. And let's get a few things set up. So first thing is getting the namespace in place. All right. Any pixel dot cameras. All right. And again, that just keeps the code secure from clashing with other classes that might have the same name from other assets that you import from asset packs like from the asset store. And let's put in our variables. And actually, we don't need these guys remember because we are going to base this from the base camera script so that by basing your scripts like this or inheriting from base classes, right, you can save yourself a lot of time and give yourself the ability to create a lot of code really quickly. It does take a little more upfront time to design how you want all your components to work and how your inheritance works, but it's highly recommended. So in this case, what all I'm going to do is actually just copy all these because it's basically the same thing. We're just going to handle the way the math works in a bit different way. Okay. And this allows us this will this technique will allow you to maintain that distance between the camera and the character and still have a smoothing property to the position of the camera. So and that's what we're looking for. Okay. So I don't need this debug distance anymore. What we want to do is actually take we want to actually figure out the rotation angle in the y axis of the character. Okay, so we need a couple more variables to be able to store these particular values. Okay, so the first one I want is a vector three. So vector three, and this is going to be called the wanted back. And I'll explain these as we go along. I just want to get these stubbed in. Then the next one that we want is a private float wanted y angle. Okay. And that basically is going to store the y rotation. Okay, because we're going to capture the current y rotation of the character and use that value to drive the position of where the camera should be. Okay. All right. So let's actually see this in action. Okay. So the first thing that we want to do is we want to say that the wanted y angle. So actually what I'm going to do first is just comment these guys out so we can go through this step by step here. Okay. So we're going to do wanted y angle is equal to math f dot lerp. Okay. All right. And remember lerp basically is just a linear interpolation. Okay. So it's the cheapest version really that we can use to smooth things out. So what we want to do is take the current y rotation. Okay. And make the target or make this y rotation, try to get to the target dot Euler angles dot y. So we want to try to get to that y rotation. And we're going to do time dot delta time times that smooth rotation speed or smooth speed. Okay. All right. So then the next step we need to store the world back direction. This is really easy. So we're just going to do back is equal to vector three dot back. Okay. So previously you saw that we captured the forward vector from the character. All right. This time we're actually just going to use the world position. So to make that more clear, the world position is this little gizmo up here. Okay. That's the best way I can visually show you. So it's always the pointing in the world position. And because we're using vector three dot back, we're getting this guy. Okay. So we're pointing backwards because it's different from the character because the characters forward and back is now local. Basically, it's local to this character. All right. So what we're going to do is we're going to start with the world position. Okay. And what we want to do is we actually want to rotate this world position to the current rotation of the character. I know this might sound confusing at first, but in order to do that in order to take a vector and rotate it, we have to multiply it by a quaternion. Okay. And you need to give us these really awesome quaternion methods that are pre that are built in. Okay. And the one that we are going to use is the angle axis. So what I want to do is put in the wanted y angle and then the vector three. Yeah. So basically what's happening here, okay, is it's building a quaternion rotation for us based off of the angle that we captured from the target from the character. All right. And we're smoothing out just that float value. Okay. So we're going back and forth between that float value and we're putting that into this angle axis. And then we're going to multiply that by the back vector. Okay. And that rotates the back vector. And to prove that what we're going to do is we're going to do a debug draw array. Okay. And we are going to draw that ray from the target's position. Okay. To the back. And we're going to give that a color of green just so we can see it. All right. Perfect. So let's actually take a look at that. Let's take a look and see what we're getting now. All right. So let me turn off the ground here and let's just hit play. All right. And we get nothing because I did not assign the script to this particular camera. So I'm going to assign that and turn off our basic follow that we did previously. Now let's hit play. And it looks like we don't have something assigned. Right. Which means we need to give the target variable an assignment. There we go. All right. So now if I were to rotate the character, you can see that we are rotating. But what's going on here? So when we're capturing that angle, you'll notice that it's working when we just slightly move. It's, oh, we got, there we go. There it is. Whenever we change from positive to negative, we're getting this flipping. All right. And this is just because the nature of rotations and the fact that we go from zero to 360. And what's happening when you'll notice up here when we rotate, we're actually going from zero to negative. And so it's wrapping all the way around to try to catch up to that value. And that's not what we want. We need to wrap the rotations. And in earlier versions of Unity, that was actually kind of difficult to do. But now Unity has provided us an awesome version of the Lerp called Lerp Angle. Boom. And you'll notice that if you hover over this, it says, same as Lerp, but make sure the values interpolate correctly when they wrap around the 360 degrees. And that's exactly what I want to do. And that's why we were getting that weird jumping. Okay. So let's test this out again now. All righty. Hit play. And there we go. Boom. There it is. And you'll notice that it is maintaining its distance all the time. So now we're not getting that weird camera motion where it's just trying to catch up to the latest position in a linear fashion. We're actually rotating properly around it. Okay. So the last step to get the camera to move is quite simple. Let's uncomment this, these actual pieces of code here. Okay. And what we want to do now is we want to say that the wanted position is equal to the back vector, right? Because the back vector is the vector that we're rotating times the distance variable that we've given it, plus our vector three dot up. So we get the height for our camera position. So m height. All right. And that's exactly all that we really need to do. The last step, we don't need this slurp anymore, right? We can actually just use that wanted position now. Okay. Because we're already smoothing it out right here. So we're already going to get a nice smoothing. Okay. So let's take a look now and see what we get. All right. So now I can turn the ground back on. Cool. There's our camera. Let's go and to snap over there. Beautiful. And let's actually make it a little closer. So let's do something like five, maybe three for the height. And that's good. Let's, let's try that out now. So now if I were to move around, you can see that we're not necessarily following, but we are rotating. And you'll notice that we're not getting a weird rotation where the cameras is trying to find the new position in the linear fashion. We're actually maintaining our distance behind the camera or the character. Perfect. So now when we move forward, you notice that we're still watching the character. So all we need to do is add on. So we're going to say plus the target position. You can add that to any one of these steps. You could add that actually to, well, let's just try that first. That should work just fine. But I'll switch back once we compile here. So now we're following the character and you could smooth that out as well if you wanted to. Right. But you could just put this up over here. That's what I was going to say to keep your code clean. So we know that we're doing all the math right here basically. And then we're just adding the position on like so. All right. And that is really all I wanted to show. In the next video, we're just going to wrap this all up and add to our camera menu. So we actually have two new cameras that we can produce. Okay. So let's do that in the next video. Thanks so much.


A variable is a container that you can store a value in. When you use that variable in an algorithm, it opens up the container and looks at the value inside. This lets you write smarter algorithms that behave differently depending on the value stored in the variable. Now you're going to try a play lab where you are given different games and you can change the values of variables like speed, height, score in order to change the game. You won't have to change the algorithm of the game to change how it plays, just the variable. In my work for Kindle and on X-Ray for Books, we apply variables in many different ways. One way that you can use a variable is to store page numbers of a book. A user can increase and decrease the size of the font in the page. Based on the font size, the number of pages in the book can change. We can adjust it by storing the page numbers in a variable.


The theme is Science and Innovation for Climate Action and it is part and parcel of the World Food Forum where the theme for this year is Agri-Food System Transformation for Climate Action. The forum is to discuss what do we know, what we don't know, where we are in terms of science and innovation toward transformation of Agri-Food System and for that we are bringing in policy makers, we are bringing in practitioners, we are bringing in scientists, we are bringing in farmers, indigenous people, young people and we want all these stakeholders to get to know what happens in the different areas and how could they work better together. What we want to do in this forum is talk about how the agriculture is both a contributor to the climate crisis but also is the only sector that can help us get out of the crisis. Science, technology and innovation can help us really switch from the bad boy to the saver because agriculture right now, yes it does emit 30% of the greenhouse gas but it's the only sector that's also sequester which we haven't yet grasped our head how much is sequestering but what we know is that if we transform towards better approaches we can increase our sequestration capacity. In the old days plant breeding or animal breeding or fish breeding used to take a long time. For the plant it used to take about 15 years to have a new variety and it used to take about $100 million to develop one variety. Today with new technologies and particularly gene editing technologies that 15 years could be reduced about 5 years or even 4 and that $100 million could be reduced to $5 million. So for the agri-food system transformation, right now there are many, many technologies that can make a difference and most of them are needed in the global south. So the global north has taken up many of those science and innovation but in the south they're not yet adaptable and they're not available. But looking forward if we wanna project ourselves in 10, 20, 30 years what we need really is speed up that process of adoption of technologies. In the science and innovation forum we have about 20 sessions that's gonna look in details on what are the science and technologies and innovation in soil and water management. We have a session on four sides where we're looking at the 20 utmost technologies that gonna change the future of agri-food systems. At FAO when we talk about science and innovation strategy we are meaning all kind of knowledges from the indigenous knowledge, the local knowledge, the ancestral knowledge and the small scale producer knowledge. The different system in different indigenous people across the world from the indigenous communities in Cameroon, the indigenous communities in the Andes, the indigenous communities in the Himalayas, in the Amazon all of these have their own ways of producing food and conserving their ecosystem and that's really what we need to look at. So at the science and innovation forum we have a session dedicated to understand better the indigenous knowledge, the local knowledge, the small scale producer knowledge and we have a session called two-eyed seeing to really dive into this kind of knowledges and discuss how could we bring it to be known, to be respected and to be used as a peer-to-peer learning across the globe.


e largely within budget and on time, subject to the caveat that the pandemic did complicate things, because resources had to be diverted away from its development to things like the hybrid working of the Parliament, for which we had no advance notice or provision or additional staffing that we could deploy other than that, which was currently working on the website. I think that I would take issue with the idea that the corporate body isn't being advised of all of these things, but Michelle? Yes, on your point about governance, I want to just reiterate that there was clear governance in place. The governance that we would normally follow in terms of projects and the various strata of that that I've outlined, I'm happy to provide a note with my colleagues on what that entails. Clear delegations, two group heads for their operational areas of accountability for budget performance and administration of that. Clear checks in our financial systems. Audit with an external audit board with Audit Scotland on it. We have a risk register, which the leadership group regularly review in terms of a risk. We have quarterly performance reporting against delivery of our delivery plan and our strategic plan, using the RAG status that Jackson has noted, so that we are constantly reprioritising tackling issues, addressing risk, seeking to mitigate risk, and also ensure proper financial and performance management of the organisation. Everything you've said I'm entirely familiar with, and I've no doubt it's happening, but it's clear that, given that we've got this session today, and what's come out of the concerns of the finance committee, there's clearly been a mismatch, and it's that mismatch that I am pulling out. There's clearly been a mismatch, and if it were me, I'd be looking carefully to avoid that mismatch happening again. I want to move on, though, because I know that every colleague wants to come in. Again, just picking up a comment that Daniel's made. I wouldn't necessarily agree about the methodology used for projects. We know that the world has moved on from waterfall projects, but, in the figures where we've got an agile methodology, which, of course, is sold by the IT consultants as much more flexible, what it often can mean is that you have increased costs where you're developing multiple prototypes and costs can mount in that area, and it's sold as a benefit that you don't do this huge, big analysis project upfront that then is out of date. I do notice looking at the figures, and I'm not entirely sure what's fitting in where, but my thing has just died, and I have to log in again, so I may be able to quote the figures in a minute. Between the alpha and beta phases, there clearly was quite a number of prototypes going on, which looked to me disproportionately high, and could even suggest that different personnel were coming in and going out. A whole point of agile is that you're developing a prototype, you're testing it, and it's iterative as compared to the old water flow approach, so perhaps Alan, you'd like to give us more context about that? Yes, certainly. I mean, what I would say about the approach very quickly, just to show people, and this is the approach that is used now by the Government Digital Services down in the UK Government and by the Scottish Government for the digital projects. I mean, waterfall is still used, but the terminology that they use is almost a bi-modal approach, depending on what the project is, so it's quite a familiar approach. In terms of the iteration, I think that the iterations that we delivered were lots of different additions to the initial prototype, so we were adding more services as we went. We did do user testing as part of those and refined some of those. In fact, some of the feedback that we received from the corporate body around things like the postcode search and these sort of things meant that we changed the order of presentation of things like that, so it wasn't just that we were polishing a particular set of functionality, we're continuing to add functionality, moving towards that goal of actually moving across to what was the beta site to be our actual website and then let the old site wither on the vine at that point. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, I'm just saying that based on my experience, this is an area in using methodologies where costs can incur, because you've got a multi-layering effect, and again, from a risk perspective, that's something I'm very much aware of as a former IT project manager many years ago, I have to concede. My last question, though, is in terms of the typical project continuum, you always have this trade-off between cost, time and quality. I'd like an honest reflection, perhaps from all of you, is in those areas, what did you trade in terms of time, cost or quality, and knowing what you know now, what you would trade, and if anyone says time, cost and quality was all of equally high standards, all the evidence tells it that that is never the case for IT projects. I'll start with you, Jackson, although I appreciate you'll need to bring your staff in. Time, cost or quality? I don't know that I came to those value judgments in the development or any more than I do over whether it's time, quality or cost on the lift refurbishment programme either. Clearly, I think the key thing I would say in all of this is that the corporate body is acutely aware that this is public money, that's what we start from in our examination, and that what we have to have is a product that matches the quality and expectation of the Parliament, but we defer and delegate to those people charged with that responsibility to take it forward. We don't interfere in an executive way in the operational decisions that you've just asked about, so I will invite— But knowing what you know now, you'll certainly be asking in the future about what is being traded in time, cost and quality, Michelle. The Finance Committee has its variable interests from one year to the next. It very often used to be the commissioners that I was interrogated at, excruciating length about, but the interest of the Finance Committee can shift in any given year given the priorities of the public understanding of the work of the Parliament. The question that you put has to go to those people who are charged with the delivery. You rightly recognise the difficult balance that we face with any project really around the time, cost and quality. We were very conscious of the fact that if we gave on too long in developing our staff and getting that up to speed, the cost would increase because of the model that we chose to use in terms of using the contractors. We always thought that it was going to take about three years, and we put a large push on despite Covid, to make sure that we were finishing roughly on time for that one. The time and the cost element was there. At that point, we had the capability then, built in house, to improve the quality. If anything, we gave a little bit on the quality. We are trying to serve multiple masters on the quality in terms of the different users of our website. There are quite a variety of users, members, staff and the public for our engagement needs and those sort of things. Also, political commentators and journalists, they all use our websites. I guess a little bit on the quality of anything that we gave on. There is always delicate balance. You are moving those things and judging those things around on a function-by-function basis. Perhaps my last little question off the back of that. I perhaps take a different view to some of the people in the committee in that I was surprised that this work hadn't been started in a period of 10 years when it was known that the operating system had become obsolete. I.T. and provisioning for I.T. is invariably expensive and only goes one way in any organisation. My question is that it seems to me to have been quite a long time to have started the project. I would appreciate your reflections, Alan. I suppose that that goes back to my comment about maybe everyone needs to understand that this is an on-going, risky, built-in cost to the Parliament all the time, because that is the nature of I.T. and digital. I would just like to understand what took so long. I think that we would have liked to have started it a little bit earlier, to be honest. I have been able to maintain it. When we put the previous website in place, it was done by a contractor who basically completed that task and then moved on. We were left looking to support it. We went through quite a lot of resourcing issues within the I.T. team. We still struggle to recruit and to retain people to actually get things going on the project. There were also changes at the senior management level in terms of ownership of the website and the services around that, with Susan Lattley taking on halfway through the project, or quite late on in the project as well. In an ideal world, we would have moved a little bit faster, but in terms of resourcing and finance available and those sort of things, this is about the time that the Parliament waited to do. We were getting by, I think, for quite a few years, and we were quite content with that at that point in time, but it just got to the point where we were worried about a catastrophic failure. We had been notified by the National Cyber Security Centre that, because it is no longer getting updated and improved, it was presenting a cyber risk. It identified that someone had had an attack on it, part of a Government attack against the UK Government, but it also probed our website and looked for spaces in there as well. I think that those were the final straw that really got us moving on that. I am not surprised to hear that. Susan, I would like to bring you in here at this point, because I think that this is my final question. There have been a few areas where we have talked about what is in effect, intracom, in terms of the various Government bodies and also to the committee. Is there anything that you would like to add to the record that you would perhaps consider doing differently? I think that the point that you make about the continuous improvement is a very good one, because you were asking earlier on about the balance, and Alan was also talking about when we have to make that judgment. We judged that in March 2021 that the technical platform was in place, and at that point we would be able to hand that over internally. We knew at that point that there were still aspects that we wanted to look at immediately to try to improve further. We will always have a rolling programme of continuous improvement as things evolve and as we get more feedback. At that time, we took the decision that we wanted to move across at that point, because we felt that we were in a position where we could take this forward. We wanted not to incur any further costs through keeping external contractors on for longer than we needed to. Also, because that was the end of the parliamentary session, we also wanted to have the new website in place for the new parliamentary session. It is not quite the question that I asked, but I will let it go to let other people come in. Thank you. Thank you. Douglas, we are followed by John. Thanks, convener. Questions are not around the functionality of the website, but it is back to the whole project initiation process and governance. Some questions are, was it an agreed project and who signed it off? Was the overall cost of the project budget approved and by who? Was the scope of the project agreed and by who? Was the timescales of the project agreed and by who? I think that the answer to that is largely yes and by the corporate body, but on the advice that we received. Yes, so the digital strategy board is the board that puts together its various projects, more than just this project or other projects, which then goes up to the strategic resources board. I chair that board currently. What we do there is look at the entire Parliament budget to advise the corporate body on what is going to be taken to run the Parliament, keep the lights on and improve the Parliament or address risk where we have things that are going to fall over or provide a cybersecurity risk. At that board, we have an additional challenge function based on all the challenges that have gone on before in the business areas to look at the nature and shape of the different pots that make up the Parliament budget but also within that the different pots that make up the project spend. When we are satisfied with that, we advise the corporate body at a number of different meetings on what the Parliament's overall budget is. The SPCB is the ultimate body that signs off the bid that goes forward to scrutiny by this committee. Would the corporate body know that overall cost of this website project being over three million, or would they just be presented with, this year it's going to cost 100K and next year it's going to cost a couple hundred more K? Usually the corporate body look at, we're working on an annual obviously budget and cycle, so the corporate body look at that. As I said a while ago, what we've been doing over the last four years is trying to improve the project pipeline, which looks ahead, obviously, to where we might have multiple years of spend on delivering something like the lefts or the web or other things like that. We've improved that, so the corporate body now is starting to get that overview. At this time, the corporate body wouldn't have been aware of the overall cost of the project. The finance committee wouldn't have been aware of the overall cost of the project. It's like me going out to buy a car. I don't buy the wheels one year and the engine the next. I need to know how much a car is on the cost. The corporate body would have known that the cost was within the indicative budget that was going up for each financial year, but looking back, there wouldn't have been a total cost of that spend that the finance committee would have seen. That's the thing. That's a complete failing then. A project has been approved without people knowing the overall cost of the project. It almost seems that there's frame agreements being in place, which has almost been handled by, it's almost like a maintenance project of a website, just adding a bit more on every year. It didn't go out to tender, so you don't know what the total cost is going to be, or maybe somebody did. You don't know what the scope is going to be because you haven't drawn that up because there's no tender process, or maybe I'm wrong. The tender process that Alan addressed was using existing frameworks that had been tendered on behalf of the public sector, so there was a tender process. We were using a framework. There was a tender process for the resource that was going to be doing this project. There wasn't a tender process for the overall project, so nobody could know what the overall project was going to cost, or maybe somebody did. No, there was an estimate for the overall cost, which the digital strategy board had for the overall cost, based on estimates in each of the financial years, which I think we'd set out in our response to you, and there was the number of years. Then, when the committee took evidence, we obviously also talked about the fact in that evidence, in one of the two evidence sessions about the fact that it was a multi-year project, but spend was within each indicative budget level for each of the financial years. The spend was contained within the annual budgeting cycle. There wasn't additional spend, if you like. No, but no elected members were ever told of the complete overall project cost of this project. So, in 2016, when we put up our evidence, we set out a number of things in the project schedule, some of which would be contained as projects within an annual year, some of which were going to be things that we flagged at the time might be across financial years, which we did with the website. But what we didn't have was that this was going to cost £2.9 million in totality. Now, that is the thing. I think that now that we have the project pipeline, we can go back and start to address for you in terms of saying, this is what we are going to spend our time on in the current financial year when you are scrutinising our budget, but we expect it to run to be a feature in quite a few of our budgets. So, I guess from Michelle's point, then that is a sort of lesson that has been learned that there is an overall project cost in house. We've matured our project pipeline approach over the last few years, and we can start to then bring more of that to the table whenever we are coming in front of you. In terms of the scope of the project, was that agreed at the outset, or is that just something that has been added to over the multiple years? I'll let Alan come in, because he was involved in the scope. I undertook a discovery phase within the first year, and we outlined what we were going to do in terms of the scope. At the same time, we further identified the cost of the project. Who was that then agreed with? Was that back to the corporate body? The scope did not come up to the corporate body, as far as I am aware. There was an update to the corporate body after that, outlining what we were going to be doing, but it was a high-level update that was presented in the May of that year, March of that year, before we kicked off the financial year of 2018-19. It was presented to the digital strategy board prior to that. The project board would have taken that information. It did not seem like the corporate body had any real... They were not presented with the facts, either, of what the project was actually going to do and what the overall cost was. Maybe they seemed to have been as much in the dark as the finance committee at that time. Can I just come in on that? Obviously, we have gone back and looked over the various documentation over the years. The delegation to officials is to develop and do all of the rigour around business cases being approved, challenged and assurance that those can be delivered, and doing the budgeting and putting that advice up, where the strategic resources board then looks like the strategic shape of the overall Parliament budget juxtaposing the various elements that we need to balance. The business case would be something that would sit at senior level with officials to improve the detail of the business cases. We have various checks and balances on that as well, but the corporate body would not be signing off detailed business cases for projects of which there are, as Jackson has alluded to, many in different areas of run in the Parliament in any given year. The corporate body is putting forward a budget that has been then approved by the finance committee without us knowing what the overall cost is. We do talk to the corporate body about the key areas of project spend, what they are going to deliver strategically for the Parliament, be that address, risk, etc. We put forward the budget saying that this is what is accommodated in our project schedule, but what you are talking about is forward look. Exactly, because they were not given the complete project spend, so it is difficult for them not to approve it, because they do not know how how much it is going to be in total over a number of years. What we were saying to them was that it is affordable in each annual budget, and it was affordable in each annual budget, so that is our assurance to the corporate body. However, I take on board your point that we can set out that forward look and report it on that a bit more to both you and the corporate body. There are a few things that I can afford, but it does not mean that we necessarily have to buy them. John, to be followed by Liz. Just a couple of points. To be fair, I am slightly more sympathetic towards yourself than some of my colleagues have been. This has come in roughly on time and roughly on budget, which I think is a good result, given that we have much experience of other IT projects that have not. First of all, I will just mention something that I find a little bit difficult about the new website and for searching for things. I do not use the website that much, but sometimes I am looking for a motion, and I was looking for a motion. I knew that I had written a motion on councillor pay, and I searched councillor pay and it gave me no results. Then I thought, well, maybe it was something else, so I thought councillors pay and it gave me one result, which was my motion. I just wonder if the public might struggle with that kind of thing, because unless they know therefore the exact words that have been used in a motion, they would struggle to find it. I will leave that with you, because you have said that the site will be developed. My other point is probably to reiterate what others have said, because I do not think that I was on the finance committee at that point when this started. Ms Haggerty, you have already said that you are going to present information slightly differently in the future, but I just like a re-emphasis and acceptance that it is very important for the finance committee to know if a project is going to run on to several years. That did actually happen with some of the security enhancements that went over more than one year. I remember being on the committee and we did ask and we did get the information that it would go over more than one year, because the risk, as others have just pointed out presumably, is that if you came back to the finance committee in year 2 and money was tight, there is a risk that they could have said no to the budget in year 2, and that would presumably have meant that all the money in year 1 had been wasted. I think that it is very important for the finance committee, whoever is on it, to know what they are committing to. Effectively—correct me if I am wrong—the finance committee is committing to a five-year project when normally we only commit budgets one year at a time. There is a risk to the corporate body that your second, third, fourth and fifth year budgets might get knocked back if the finance committee does not understand that they are making a commitment for five years. Am I understanding that correctly? The finance committee is scrutinising the overall Parliament budget in terms of the totality of the Parliament budget and all the various bits that make it up. Project spend is only four and a half to £5 million out of £112 million. Considering other organisations, we maintain it at that kind of level over many years at that level. That involves choices. Officials have to scrutinise different projects. We have to take a risk-based decision back to the convener's point about affordability. That is one of the considerations. We eek out the life of things in order to push out where we say that we can do that without catastrophic risk for the organisation. For example, the last time we replaced all the consoles, microphones and chamber, we harvested a lot of that equipment so that it could eek out the life of what you have in the committee room, so that we were looking at affordability in the round in terms of how we use our project spend. That is because we have to make choices. We have to make priority decisions every year. On top of that, as we have had for the past couple of years, we get a bit of a crisis situation, which means that we are having to peddle quite furiously to be able to address the increased resourcing costs to the organisation, such as enhancing cleaning and new service deliveries so that we can operate during the pandemic additional equipment for people to work at home, so that we can manage that. Those projects, like the website, are within our project budget without asking for more money, which is what we manage to do. We constantly reprioritise within our project budget in-year, and we seek to also look at spend across the years when we look at our medium-term financial planning, which is what we will be speaking to you about when we come back in December again. I am convinced that you are trying to keep costs down and not spend. There is a balance between preventative maintenance and reactive and so on. I stress that it is very important that the Finance Committee understands if a project is going to be lasting longer because, effectively, the Finance Committee is pre-approving what would normally just be a year-by-year budget. Can I just follow on that point? Can I draw the panel's attention to the letter that the committee received from the Presiding Officer, in which she says just towards the end that, as I quote, officials have recognised the need to provide increased detail on multi-year project costs as part of the annual budgeting process, and that this committee should note that, because it is one of the Parliament's larger investments, the project is scheduled to be reviewed as part of the internal audit programme. Can I just ask when that audit is due, and secondly, can I just seek confirmation that the results of that would be passed to this committee? It will be within the current financial year. I will get back to you on specifically when we anticipate that in the audit programme to happen, but it will be scheduled for the current financial year. I believe that it is a matter of public record, so those documents are available. I will follow on Mr Mason's point that, when it comes to multi-year projects, it is very important that we can scrutinise that. Obviously, we have to look at things on a yearly basis, but just the forecasting for projections is important to the scrutiny of this committee, so any information that we could have at that time of that internal audit would be immensely helpful to us, if that was possible. The second thing that I want to ask, which again is in the Presiding Officer's letter, where she says that the investment that has been made has achieved certain things. She says that it is more resilient, stable, flexible and a robust website. We have obviously heard varying views on that, but she secondly says that it has reduced the possibility of a really awful cyber attack, which we all have to accept as public bodies, sadly, these days can happen. We saw recently what happened to SEPA and how that problem made life very difficult for at least two of the committees in this Parliament, the Environment Committee and also the Rural Affairs Committee in the last Parliament. Obviously, that had implications for the work that the Parliament could do. Without giving away any state secrets, can I just ask about why we are confident that the possibility of a cyber attack has been addressed by this new system? It is a very important point that, if we were to have a cyber attack, it could cause us huge problems. I begin by acknowledging and thanking the officials who have tirelessly worked to ensure that the sustained efforts that the corporate body has been advised of external parties who have sought to break into and corrupt our network have been frustrated and defeated on each occasion. It is something that the corporate body has taken quite seriously. We received briefings, I seem to remember, from GCHQ, which was obviously very exciting, but there has been a genuine and sustained effort. We have worked, and I know that the team has worked incredibly hard to frustrate that and have succeeded. I know that in developing the new website, as Alan will now explain, the understanding that that is an on-going issue is very much to the fore of our thinking. We have built in good cyber practices from the off in this project for the design, which is one of the major risks of the old site. There are two things that we are really doing to reduce the risk. I am not going to be complacent and say that we have eliminated the risk, but we never can eliminate it. We are always, hopefully, going to be one step ahead of the bad people who will do this, but you cannot guarantee that you will always stay ahead. Two things that we are really putting in place. With the new website, with the team that we have on board now, we are able to update that and maintain that and keep that up to date. Just as you would do on your mobile phone, you would get app updates and those sorts of things. We get that for the actual system that runs it, so we make sure that it is applied in timely fashion as fast as possible, so that that helps us to prevent known faults becoming an issue for us in terms of cyber attack. The other thing that we undertake regularly with the website is what is called the penetration test. We will test it to see if there are any faults and we will address those faults or weaknesses that are identified within that. We are coming at it from two perspectives. One is the preventative side and the other is trying to tackle the cyber attack ourselves to see if we can break that. We have also taken advice and guidance from the Scottish Government Resilience Centre and the National Cyber Security Centre around our security for this. It is a key thing to us. That is very helpful and very encouraging. My final point, which again comes back to what the Presiding Officer was saying, which you have alluded to this morning, is that one of the reasons for the redesign is to ensure that it is more accessible and user-friendly for members of the public and people who are outside of the building. What are we doing to measure the responses of those stakeholders so that we know that what we have done is helping people to understand the place a bit better and to contribute to it? Throughout the course of putting the website in place, we tried to do a lot of consultation with a number of stakeholders and, going forward, we want to continue with this. On what you are asking about people who are external to the Parliament, on the website, we have constantly something at the top that we ask people to give us feedback in terms of what they think about the website. As part of the programme of continuous improvement, we take the results of that feedback together with feedback that we get from internal users, specifically members. We held a drop-in session back in March for members and their staff, and we will be holding another one in June. We want to hold that on a quarterly basis because, whether it is really important that we try to capture feedback from all the different users and that we use that to make improvements to the website. We are aware that we have a number of different users, and it can be a complex process trying to build something that will meet the needs of all those users. From an engagement perspective, what was key for us was making sure that people who did not know how the Parliament was structured and how it was operated would be able more easily to find things out, but we will continue to act on that feedback. Is that feedback relatively positive just now from people out with the building? As with most feedback, we can have a mixed bag. There are people who very much like the way that the website is structured. Some people have perhaps given us constructive suggestions, so I would not pretend that it is overwhelmingly positive, nor is it overwhelmingly negative. It is probably, as would be expected, a mixed bag. There have been a number of ways in which we have responded already to feedback, and there are a number of initiatives that are already planned. It is not just the range of users—one of the most significant things that the team had to accommodate—was the different ways in which people are now seeking to access the website, with a huge shift to mobile digital technology seeking to access it, which simply was not something that the previous system was capable of sustaining. Thank you very much. That concludes the question from other members of the committee. I have just got one or two to round up with. One, for example, on the issue of cost is the annual licensing support cost that has not come up, but I noticed that that has increased from £54,000 to £86,000, so I will have an explanation as to why we have that significant jump in cost. I think that I know that, but I think that you probably should ask that question. It is a different product that we are using. The platform for the website now costs more, but it is a better product. It gives us a lot more functionality for our engagement side. There is a lot more to it. It is a more fulsome product that we are using, and therefore it costs more on an annual basis. Having covered cost and scrutiny, I want to cover one other issue, which is quality. It is in response to a comment that Alan made earlier on. We had the referendum in September 1970 to set up this Parliament. 20 months later, the Parliament was established with a functioning website, which served us for many years. I recall that there were many IT problems. For example, we only had a capacity of 50 megabytes that are in-box and there were constant issues. I do not remember many difficulties with the website, I have to say, but I think that we would all accept that, nevertheless, we have to evolve. It is more than 20 years of elapsed, obviously, and there have been some upgrades, but this was a mega one. In response to Michelle, when Michelle Thompson talked about the trade of sweet and quality, Alan said that we had to give a little in-quality, but surely, if you are taking more than three years to develop a project, more than £3 million has been spent, you should not have to concede anything in quality. Where have we conceded that quality? I think that we were conceded a little bit in quality to make sure that we did not keep the project running, as you rightly highlighted. The project was costing us money every day, basically, for the contractor costs that you have talked about. We wanted to finish that as quickly as we could, so we could move that on to our own team. In doing so, we accepted that not everything was perfect. We could have kept polishing this for many years, but we really did not want to continue on with that cost. We knew that we had changed our whole model across the organisation to a continuous improvement, continuous development model for the website, and that is exactly what we are going to do, is to continue to improve that, seeking feedback from different people on that. A basic thing that I referred to earlier on is the fact that you have to go on the old website to look at the official report. Surely, that is a nonsense. I do not think that it is just a coincidence that, since this new website came up, we now, for the first time more than 20 years, get sent the official report every day so that we do not really have to go on to it. That is my fault, I have to say, because I have become increasingly concerned since we stopped producing paper copies of the official report that parliamentarians have not been bothering to access the official report and potentially have less familiarity with the general business within the Parliament than was the case before. I specifically, for no reason other than that, would be of enormous value to me, requested that the official report be taken out of the general, kind of go and find it category to one that would be proactively sent to all members on a daily basis, as the old paper copy used to be. Okay, but surely if it was more accessible online, most people would just access it online and wouldn't have to have it actually sent to them on a daily basis. I mean surely, but I mean we'll leave that, we'll leave that then. We'll leave it at that, but just one final thing, and it was just basically from Susan, she talked about it, we have to eke out the life of equipment, and yet this very day IT people are in my office, both constituency and upstairs, telling me that they have to replace laptops, which I think some of the staff have only had for less than a year, et cetera, and all sorts of other technology. We had some discussions about retaining some of it because we didn't want to lose any of it. All works pretty well, as far as we're concerned, certainly a lot better than it used to work a few years back. What is the necessity of that project and what's the cost going to be? It's the overall cost, because we'll obviously maybe want to scrutinise that further later in the year. We're refreshing the technology used by return members now, we've done it obviously after the election. We refreshed the technology, it will give out technology to the new members. What we are doing with that is we're making sure that you have the latest version of Windows installed on that. This is key for us to maintain our estate. We need to be working on the latest version so that it's compatible with other applications, but also maintaining our cyber security stance so that there are no known issues with that. It would be fine if everyone worked in Hollywood and was hidden behind a hard shell, but that's not the way things have worked out over the last two years, so we are refreshing those. The easiest way for us to do that is to replace all of the equipment at that time. That equipment, if it's not in more than four years, will then be reused elsewhere further down the line, so it will actually bubble down as we go about. We've got a fighting stock, if you like, that we put together so that we can actually replace equipment for members, and then we'll actually reuse the equipment that still has good value to us. We do try and eik out. We're very conscious of the tension, I guess, between the sustainability angle and the speed of equipment and the longevity of the lifespan of the equipment sitting in there. It's easier for us to upgrade the whole thing at once. It's more a cost-effective way for us to do that, and then use that equipment that we've taken back from you if it's still serviceable to pass on to somebody else, but again, it would be fully updated before passing on to them. Thank you very much for your evidence today. The committee will consider any next steps arising from today's session at a future meeting, and we also look forward to considering the SPCB's budget bid for 2023-24 towards the end of the year as part of our wider budget scrutiny process. That concludes the public part of today's meeting. Next item on the agenda will be to discuss private paper and consideration of work paper. We'll now move into private sessions. We also have a two-minute recess while we allow the official report and witnesses to leave.