Okay, it is 703 welcome to the Amherst Planning Board Wednesday, February 5th, 2020 we're in the town room town hall and We're gonna start right off with item 1 minutes, which I believe we don't have any minutes No, we do not item 2. This is a time. It's public comment period This is a time for anyone who's here for something besides something on our agenda that they can come forward and make a statement I see no hands. So none this evening We're gonna have a change of schedule. We're gonna change instead of moving on to item 3 We are going to move to item 7 new business number a which is chapter 61 a withdrawal request property of the Set salsa Salsa Zala Zala Zala real realty trust land on Sunderland Road Accessors map to a parcel 7 and we're gonna start with the director of Planning Christine Bestrup who's gonna fill us in on some of the background and then we will have a presentation by the applicant Good evening. I'm Chris Brestrup planning director And I just wanted to give a little bit of context to this request that's going to be made The property that is being requested to come out of chapter 61 a is in the professional research park Zoning district and there are three such zoning districts in town and I just wanted to help you to locate those so I've got three maps and This is all I'm going to do and then I'm going to Take my little thumb drive out and mr. Riedi Tom Riedi is going to use this port to make his presentation on behalf of the owner owner and purchaser of the property so the first PRP zone that I'm going to show you is the one in North Amherst and this is the one that is being considered Tonight the property in question Property in question is along Sunderland Road. It's almost up at the northern end of town It's this northern most property in the PRP zoning district this sort of army green if you would or olive green Color here. That's all professional research park So there are certain uses that are allowed there and certain uses that aren't So that is professional research park in North Amherst the next one will be I'm going to go out of this one. Oh dear. What did I do the next one will be the professional research park on Belcher Town Road So again the area in the olive green is the professional research park in belt along Belcher Town Road Here's Belcher Town Road. This is the log town neighborhood. This is the This is the entry to Echo Hill and here's rolling green So this is all PRP much of this PRP is wet and Some of it has been developed the third PRP we're going to look at is how do I get back to The File I guess this way. Okay. So the third one we're going to look at is on North Hampton Road North Hampton Road is route nine. So here's route nine. Here's the University Drive And here is Snell Street So this area in here, I think this is called Holly Meadows apartment complex this whole area here That is in the olive green is in the PRP zoning district Now most of this is developed for housing currently and housing isn't allowed in the PRP But that was allowed back at the time when this Development was built. So I just wanted to give you a sense that the PRP zoning districts are limited in Amherst There really isn't much PRP. Do you have any questions about these areas before I pull this? thumb drive out and mr. Reedy starts his presentation Yeah, yes, please Chris. Can you just outline and the that PRP zone and and the Street names that form that border, please. So this is North Hampton Road. It's called Russell Street in Hadley It's North Hampton Road in Amherst Here is University Drive There's a Chinese restaurant on the corner here and a real-state office here and a veterinarian's office here and then University Drive branches off into Snell Street, which heads on towards South Pleasant Street eventually So are people oriented to this map? Yes? Yeah The bike path goes through here. Yep So do you have any other questions about the PRP zoning districts? Just on the one that we're discussing tonight The three properties below the one we're discussing. Could you just tell us what's on those properties? And it looks like there's a few little triangle pieces on the west side of Sunderland Is that part of the PRP? That's part of the PRP as well. I think there's a house on one of these properties a Greenhouse dark greenhouse you probably remember it and the other two I don't really remember the other properties here are for the most part open, but there is a solar project and I'm trying to figure out exactly where that is I think This this this one here, okay So there's a big solar Installation solar panel installation right on this property here and the other properties as far as I know are undeveloped undeveloped like farm or Farm forest open space There are a couple of large ponds in that area somewhere Do you know where they are right here? There's a big pond here, and there's a big pond here, which I think is Connected by a little stream two ponds connected by a stream Any other questions? Is that it? Okay, so I'm gonna pull this Come drive out if we need it. We can always get back to it later Thank you Thank you. So now we will have Representation for the applicant to come forward. Please introduce yourself for the minute taker. Sure. Thank you very much Madam chair members of the board for the record Tom Rede an attorney with Bacon Wilson here in Amherst I think it might be useful just to get the GIS map up as well Pictures are good always So this is the parcel the one that it's highlighted in yellow the parcel that we're talking about It is about a 39 acre parcel altogether There is really only potentially nine acres that are developable on the parcel right here in the middle I can pull up an overlay map so you or aerial map so you can see What it looks like? This middle area right here probably about four acres of it. I think it has been farmed or maybe five acres has been farmed In the past. I'm not sure of the crop As far as I know from the Jala family It's called they call it the island because everything else around it is really really wet and I'll show you up we went through a Resource area delineation with the conservation Commission. So I think that will show you exactly how wet that site is Historically and maybe a little bit more than you want to know But I'll probably tell you anyways is all of this land was connected all the way over into Hadley There's a piece of land on the other side of 116 in Hadley that the town has recently acquired It's it's in Amherst, but it's on the other side of Sundarine Road that the town acquired that was owned by the Jala family They owned all of this they own probably 200 some odd acres Sundarine Road Historically went all the way north right in front of this property and then when the state came I think it was in 1958 and put in 116 It somewhat acted as a dam because if you look at some of the historical photographs of this area You're not necessarily going to see The ponds the way they are now. I think I can probably get to Maybe I'm a liar So it looks like there is a pond there, but at least that there was some developability or farming could occur in this area And so there there you see pre 116 where Sundarine Road went and so fast forward to 2004 2005 you'll see What they had for farmland Don't want to make you everybody sick by zooming in and out It was really just this area right here and then when I put this USB and I think you'll be able to see Exactly what you know the extent of the wetlands So to orient to this is Sundarine Road here 116 is right here everything in this Green kind of triangular area. That's all wetlands All of this is wetlands here There is an existing farm road that accesses this area, but that's Even though all of this is wooded over here all that had been farmed is this area here and so the Jala family entered into an agreement with Sundarine Road north To sell the property they had been Somebody wanted to put solar on it. We had been approached by Folks who wanted to connect into the substation and put solar on it, but understanding not having a lot of PRP land and ultimately the Purchases of the property want to put something on this land that is allowed in the PRP I think that that's one of that's one of the ideas I don't know what it'll be, but that's what they're looking to do And so because we're in chapter 61 a which as most of you know is a tax classification that allows for lower taxes As a result of it being agricultural use one of the Keys is when you look to convert it to industrial commercial or residential use you have to give the town a right of first refusal And so the town has that right of first refusal What you do is you send notices to the planning board the Board of Assessors the conservation Commission the decision-makers so town council plus the town manager in this town and then the State Forester to look at it as well And so we've done that the town has 120 days to either exercise or not And so this is just part of the process for your review and whether or not there is a recommendation And I don't want to steal anybody else's thunder, but a recommendation or not To that decision-making authority to wave or not that right of first refusal And so that's that's what we're here for and we're requesting that you wave it But obviously happy to have a discussion. So you're ready for questions Me. Yeah. Oh, yeah, okay I see one Maria What are the parallel lines that run through this to clean yeah, good question. It's an easement. So it's an electric easement So you'll see that The substation is right here. I think they call it the podunk substation Maintain by the utility companies. So that's and they have a utility easement that goes through the property I believe there are utility high tension wires. I think you can see Maybe some of the bases Janet What what crops have been grown on that? I mean there they're in farm use now, right? So When I went out there last fall, I didn't see anything growing out there. It's it's really only in this area I Didn't ask the owner what was growing out there, but I don't think it's There's probably about four or five acres that can be farmed which I mean, I think given Some of the other farmland in in the area Frankly wasn't that meaningful. I mean to these landowners also own the other side of Sunrill and road Which they've recently sold to Kestrel trust And so I think that was a hundred and eighty acres hundred and fifty acres maybe of farmland So this was just there Is the existing farm road the only feasible vehicular access to the Buildable portion of the site it is and following on that question if the property were to be developed That existing farm road would probably not be satisfactory for continued development So we'd have to have a wetland crossing issue and those kinds of things correct You're right on top of it. Mr. Burt Russell. Yes, that's exactly so what we had here was the SWCA is the one that did the SWCA did the delineation and so though we looked at what that impact would be to get that road to a width that would be Meaningful so that you could actually have Construction traffic and vehicular traffic traveling back and forth I think that's either 26 or 28 feet my eyes are failing me a little bit And so that the permanent impact would be 2800 square feet of permanent wetland disturbance There's a there's a beaver pond. There are beavers here that are creating a backup That's I think that's what's causing a lot of the flooding in in the air in this area There is an existing culvert We were out there with Beth Wilson last year to just discuss it because They were they were doing the purchasers were doing due diligence And so this would have to come up to a stream crossing that met the Massachusetts stream crossing standards and one of the question if you could go back to the larger view of the property that Section in the upper right-hand corner that axe head up there. What's that? What is that? Is there anything up there that's buildable or is that all wetland to? It's a good question. I I would be I would bet based upon the topography that there is Something up here that could be used, but I don't know that it is Buildable, you know, I don't know that somebody would access traverse the entire site build a road and go here specifically for Something a standalone lot it might be if this is developed something accessory or tangential or it could be utilized in conjunction with But I think also, you know, you've got Montague Road right here and you've got neighbors and so further you can stay away from them typically the more likely you are to have a successful successfully permitted project so that's Topographically it looks like it's okay. I think the wetlands will end you can kind of see if you follow this hand where it looks like They end you can also see where there is an existing So I can another the existing farm road goes across that wetland as well But again, you're getting into With wetlands if you alter permanently alter more than 5,000 square feet You're dealing with the Army Corps of Engineers And if you're dealing with the Army Corps of Engineers You've got to wait a couple of years for your project to actually be approved and built And so really the key is to stay under 5,000 square feet My guess is you may exceed that if you want it to have something You know accessible to the public if you kept it as a farm road and had it as 12 feet wide and didn't really Weren't really impactful you probably don't cross that 5,000 square foot threshold So I think other than something is like I say accessory or used in Combination with there's really not much Back here. That's useful question for Chris Yes Is this property of any particular value from a conservation or other long-term master plan Point of view This property really isn't Next to any Conservation land it's across the road from conservation land that the Kestrel trust has purchased But it's not really next to or contiguous with any other conservation land and I I Don't see Any particular reason why the town would want to acquire it at this time But you could ask that question of mr. Zomek He might be a little bit better able to answer that question and mr. Zomek is the conservation Director director of conservation and also the director of conservation and development So you may wish to ask him that question And maybe if I could before Dave starts if you look at the utility map in town You'll see that water and sewer service and right here and they don't extend to the site So any development would necessarily include the extension of that water and sewer To this site which does a couple of things it Extends it to these sites the Patterson sites which are currently used for solar solar obviously is a temporary Use I mean after 20 years 25 or 30 years, it's Likely not to exist on our property anymore. So by the extension of that water and sewer I think you are increasing the likelihood or the value of these Properties and them actually being developed for PRP or some other use. So just something to know Thank you very much Dave Zomek director of conservation and development assistant town manager And I think I think Christine and and Tom have covered a lot of it The question about so just a little bit more on context so and Chris can help me out here, but This property has been zoned PRP probably going on 30 years or so if you look back at various plans that the town has put forth Including the open space and recreation plan of which this is probably the I'm going to guess the fourth or fifth update of the open space and recreation plan the area East of Sunderland Road, which is all PRP in this area has never been identified as a high priority for open space preservation Instead what the town through the years has done is prioritized everything west of 116 and as Tom said earlier late in 2019 the town did pick up about 23 acres of the Zala property here Which is really sandwiched between Poteh conservation area here and Catherine Cole sanctuary there. I just switch this over So just to give you a little context This is a very sensitive mouse There we go. So this gives you a little sense here is the 39 acre parcel And so over here to the west of 116 is in green conservation area Green conservation area. This is actually coded incorrectly This is an APR an agricultural preservation restriction now So preserve farmland and we haven't quite coded this but this is all protected land as well So in short the town has prioritized the farmland the higher quality farmland to the west of 116 and Really from a conservation standpoint stayed away from the PRP I Will note also and Tom can correct me on this, but I believe that this area is also not Listed as an area of priority or estimated habitat for rare or endangered species. So that's another Reason why it is not listed as a high priority in the open space and recreation plan. So So I have a couple of questions First of all, why would the lands of west of 116 be like I did as priority lands versus the ones east For a couple of reasons one is that the soils are better west of 116 and that area Historically, I mean some of these preservation projects go back long before Most of us were volunteering or working for the town but 25 or 30 years and so from a contiguous Parcel standpoint the town really said how can we preserve as many parcels that are contiguous farmland as possible? And that's why my predecessor Pete Westover began to build on that Going back to the 80s. So protecting land west and not focusing on this area Here and again, I was not privy to those conversations 20 30 years ago But I think earlier planning boards earlier conservation Commission staff Decided that really this was an area that was to be zoned PRP and that it was not to be prioritized as important for conservation or agricultural preservation the soils on the Zala property the Patterson property and the Mitchell properties By in large or not as good as proper as soils to the west of 116 and then over into Hadley so the for the properties that are east have they been assessed in some kind of formal way in terms of like The soils are delineated the wetlands have values they've been assessed for endangered species or you know Like has there been like a formal evaluation process? Well typically there's no Formal process, but through the years Various concoms planning boards staff members have looked at a lot of those factors Scenic values rare and endangered species habitat is mapped by the state So we can turn on those layers and you see that those areas in the PRP do not contain any rare and endangered species that we know of There are intermittent streams, but not perennial streams So there's a number of layers of factors that go into whether an area is prioritized or not and so Through the years that was really the conclusion and to be honest the town taking a proactive step to say this is one of the Again, this was 30 years ago. This is one area that we would like to direct Development to if some time in the future the time is right to do that as Tom said Water and sewer has not been extended all the way up Sunderland Road yet, and that's something that the town has considered through the years Do you think it has any scenic value or value is farmland that that whole section? We've looked at the soils the soils are not of the highest quality that we would typically Prioritize in in ways that we have other farmland There's a lot of places honestly that have scenic value I grew up in North Amher So clearly there's a lot of areas that have scenic value in North Amherst That typically isn't it is one of many factors that we consider when we Look at open space preservation I have to say that during my tenure as in this position We've really tried to drill down and say what are the true priorities and I think looking on the East side of Sunderland Road in the west side the Zala property to the west Was surrounded by protected open space it made sense and we're when we're putting together a puzzle and the west is Mostly preserved land it makes sense to fill in this is these this 23 acres here Was one of the last puzzle pieces on the western side. This is actually already protected as an APR So we're finishing the puzzle over here By and large we're not likely to go here Because it has been zoned PRP for 30 years and it makes sense to have some areas to direct Development that the town might want so You so do you think it has scenic value because I mean it's kind of a beautiful stretch as far as I'm concerned And the other question is have you checked with the concom and the farm Commission the The conservation Commission will be taking this up a week from today The chapter 61 and the Farm Commission the Agricultural Commission. Thank you Would they consult it? We typically don't directly consult with the Agricultural Commission There's nothing statutorily that says they need to sign off on a chapter 61. It's really a recommendation Review and recommendation from the Planning Board and a review and recommendation from the Conservation Commission Could you do that? I will say we didn't talk about dates, but in fact the 120 days for this expires on March 6th so There may not be time, but if they meet during February happy to take that to them I don't know when they meet off the top of my head Chris I Just want to note that there is a purchase and sale agreement on this property So if the town were to decide to purchase the property The the cost of it would be four hundred thousand dollars. So that would have to be appropriated Is it true of chapter 61 property that when it's Returned to or taken out of that category that there's some Portion of back taxes that are due and if so what what is that quantity of money? Yeah, so You're correct There is a either a conveyance tax or a rollback tax Depending upon when the property is being conveyed out and when it was put into chapter classification And so in this case it would be rollback taxes and what the assessor does is looks at the past five years What it would have been assessed at at its highest and best value and then what it paid for taxes over the past five years I I think that totals maybe 13 thousand dollars over the past five years according to that was according to Dave Burgess Before he left and I guess maybe one point on the the scenic nature of it If you've been out to the site, you'll see that along 116 there's a bunch of trees a row of trees and then there's Wetlands and then more trees and you're not going to be able to take down any of those trees because of their existence in the wetlands So it's not like you can you know if you're thinking about scenic views to the west And I don't know if that's what you're thinking about here You're not going to be able to get those you would have to actually go internal to the site and then you would be dealing with You know you're surrounded by Wetlands trees and a beaver pond to the west so just something to consider if you're thinking about the Westerly views which is a little different than say The Mitchell property here, which you know slopes topographically from the east to the west but also has More views because there's less if not many trees on this side So you don't think a building would be seen kind of thing or I think it would be I think it would be tucked away. I mean it's I Wouldn't suggest actually driving in there because it's pretty mucky now But I mean that that building would be tucked away Which is part of the attractiveness of this site is that it's nestled in a way that Hopefully is out of the eyesight of the Montague road folks and then is tucked far enough back where if you're traveling on 116 your your eye isn't immediately drawn to it if you're familiar with How to get into the site it really is off of this kind of elbow Right here of Sun Drill and Road And then like I said, there are all those they'll put the arrow map again. There's all those trees Right along here and then another buffer right along here And then all of this is wetlands that'll just continue to to grow up. I Live near there. I drive by all the time and It's I've never even noticed that that field is in there because of the way the topography is It goes down to the wetlands, but then it sort of comes up and and then it rises up behind Which is sort of a fist up there. You can't see many of the homes, but Analyzing the numbers you gave it sounds like you're saying that it would it would impact less than 25% Like the maximum if you said the max is buildable nine acres So it could be potentially 20% or less is actually developed so it's still leaving a lot of the green and scenic beauty Yes, okay And just one for it's so much So are you say like so this is basically like weighing the value for the town? So of course, there's the Important green, you know saving green space element and that's a value, but we have limited PRP land so It sounds like the town is not taking an active Role and trying to obtain this property because when you put it on the scale Yeah, so in short Consulting with Chris consulting with other staff My recommendation to the conservation Commission next week will be that we not acquire this property for agricultural preservation or conservation purposes as I said before You know during my tenure we have really tried to focus our attention on the highest priority parcels remaining that are unprotected in Amherst and Yes, there are some trade-offs There's some scenic value here. There's there's some some wildlife habitat Is there a there's wildlife habitat on every piece of property, you know, including where we all live But as Tom said Only about nine percent or excuse me nine acres of 39 will be developed So the remaining land for the most part will be left to grow. It's protected wetland much of it so the conservation Commission through their powers will Make sure that if somebody develops this that that land Remains in roughly its natural state. So this is not a recommendation that I would make For preservation to you or to the conservation Commission now again I don't speak for the Commission so they may have a different opinion next week and they They will write an independent recommendation to the council as well, but I will make Answer questions and make a similar statement to them. I'll go with David I would propose a motion, but so if there are other questions or discussion so I so Um Does the planning board normally wait until they hear from the concom for what about their thing is because you know Because I was thinking I'd like to hear from the conservation Commission And then the farm Commission the agricultural committee to see what they say because I don't feel quite equipped to make a decision Since we're kind of a broad-based Board and we're supposed to be looking at farmland protection and scenic and developable land and all those kind of things I'd like to hear from those committees first. Is that normal? So in my long tenure of four years here This has never come up before but I saw a nod no from Chris that I am not aware of any time that the planning board has waited to hear from the conservation Commission about a request for release of Chapter 61 a property And I've been here 15 years. I agree. I think there's different agendas and different roles and charges for each border commission David I had two questions At the moment I can only remember the first The question that I have is are the priorities for open space and undeveloped land development preservation known or is that like you say this is low on the Priority list is the list publicly available or Do we do we hold that because we don't really want to Tip our hand go ahead So we We publish an open space and recreation plan We're obligated by the state to require by the state to update that every five to seven years We did an update in 2017-18 It's our most recent update. It is online. It is available to anyone and There you will see because I refresh my my own memory on it there is a very large circle around that land to the west of 116 and Really nothing identified in that area. So we identify High priority areas for wildlife habitat forestry intact forests River river corridors Estimated in priority habitat and of course Priority blocks of farmland all in that document I remembered the second one which is just sort of a process question if we had a hundred On this and it's now there's 30 days Before the end of that period has the the planning board's agenda been so busy that this wouldn't have come up before I Can definitely say yes David so my understanding is that it's actually the town council's role to Is authorized by statute to make this decision and the decision is whether to exercise the right to purchase the the right of first refusal right to purchase the property instead of the Mr.. Readies client And so it's just it's the planning board's recommendation just like it's any of these other bodies Commissions, I'd like to make a I would make a motion that the planning board Recommend to the town council that it not exercise its right To purchase this property that it allows this purchase to go through Second we'll have some discussion does anyone have some comments or questions I don't The following up on Mr. Marshall's question. So do we normally get this very early in the process and this is coming late Why are some is there a process? I mean just so So it came in in early November What we do is we send it off to town council and town council Evaluates it and then gets back to us and lets us know whether it has followed all the right Processes to get to us which includes various types of mailings and Format and has to have all its parts and pieces. So our town attorney did get back to us and say yes It is in the right format then we had What did we have a planning board meeting after Thanksgiving? I think or no we had one before Thanksgiving or more She was the 20th. So we probably hadn't heard by the 20th. We had two very Very full meetings in December. Yeah, so far. We had one meeting in January and then a kind of a lightweight meeting in January So this is the first meeting in February that we've had an opportunity to review this and Do I have any other questions? I see none Should I have do we have to have a public comment on it? Okay. Is there anyone here who would like to speak on this? Yeah, I don't see anyone. Okay. Oh Oh Come on up, please Thank you, and if you could please just introduce yourself for the minute taker Dorothy Pam town counselor. Is this anything to do with a rupture? Are you in your here in your capacity as town counselor or are you in here as your capacity as a citizen, I think it's a question that I would want to know as a town counselor and a citizen so We were told there was a possibility of some land somewhere in this area, but I had no idea where so I was just wondering if this was a spot where it might go. I Don't know. I don't know if mr. Reedy has any information on that Do I go back? The erupt it's they're talking about building. It's like a not think tank. Oh, yeah, sure. So maybe unveiling a little bit it's a Research in development with kind of proof of concept light manufacturing Facility that has been Rumblings of which has been in the works for I think a couple of years at this point and they are looking to be cited in North Amherst in this general area, but that is not the intent of Whether it be what I'll say is whether it becomes it. I don't know but that is not what the purchaser has in mind Thank you Anyone else have a question? I See none. So at this point we can take a vote But the motion we have an emotion written down All in favor show of hands. I see I'm like we're missing at one two three four five against and abstain Okay, so we have Five zero one Thank you so much for coming Good luck. Thank you. And I think we see you next yeah, you're just gonna stay there So we will move backwards on our agenda Back to item three And I do have a preamble to read So it is 745 in Accordance with the provisions of MGL 40 a this public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been Hosted this hearing is being held for the purpose of providing an opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding SPR 2020-05 dash 462 Main Street LLC Center East commons 462 Main Street continued from January 15th So requests to modify previously issued site plan review approval SPR 2020-01 To change the unit configuration of the mixed-use building to add More one-bedroom and studio apartments to increase the number of units from 16 to 24 To increase the building footprint by approximately 800 square feet Excuse me and the building size by a total of approximately 2700 square feet to adjust the location of certain site improvements to rebuild the back section of the existing office building and to request waivers waivers of the parking requirements modifications requested so as to be in compliance with conditions one and seven of the decision for SPR 2020-01 be and zoning district map 14b parcel 68 and So and in opening the public hearing for SPP 2020-02-462 Main Street LLC Center East commons 462 Main Street to run concurrently with SPR 2020-05 public hearing in accordance with the provisions of MGL 40 chapter 40 a this public hearing has been duly advertised and Notice thereof has been posted this hearing is being held for the purpose of providing an opportunity For interested citizens to be heard regarding SPP 2020-02-462 Main Street LLC Center East commons 462 Main Street SPP 2020-02-462 Main Street LLC 462 Main Street Center East commons request to alter enlarge or construct a portion of a pre-existing non-conforming structure be and zoning district map 14b parcel 68 Okay, sorry everyone awake are there any board disclosures I see none We are going to have a presentation by the applicant welcome back if you could both introduce yourselves for the minute take our Chris I just wanted to note that these two public hearings are running concurrently the special permit application came in after the site plan review application, but They're running concurrently now, so you can discuss them both together, but you will have to make separate decisions and Separate votes. Yeah, that's separate votes and findings and the whole findings. Thank you Okay, great. Thank you very much madam chair members of the board for the record Tom Reedy attorney with Bacon Wilson here in Amherst Here on behalf of 462 Main and with me this evening is the manager and member of 462 Main John Robleski So last we were here a little shy of a month ago January 15th We had a I thought it was very productive discussion. We went away with some homework and now we're back Hopefully to provide you with the results of that homework. I think you should have in your packet The letter from Jason Skeels, I think you also have a clean letter I would say from Jason Skeels a clean letter from the fire department relative to the propane tanks You have an updated management plan and updated Additional information to the management plan and then you have a parking management plan as well And I think what we would like to do this evening is talk through the special permit piece of it and Really just explain what we're asking for here and I we would suggest that it's more of a technicality than anything else and that you can make the finding and then We'll have Christine Royal the architect talk through those changes after the discussion that we had last time And then we can show you some of the updates we made to the plan specifically relative to the landscaping In front of those parking spaces if you'll recall and so maybe turning first to the special permit which Hopefully is the hopefully it's all simple, but hopefully it's a nice simple piece of it What we're looking to do is there is an existing structure on the side of zero all aware It's shown on the screen here for 62 Main Street. It currently Located in the BN zoning district side yard setback is 10 feet There is in your dimensional table a waiver under footnote a however, and I think it's 6.132 There is a provision that says it has to be 10 feet away from the side lot line and so this structure is not 10 feet away and It existed closer to that sideline before the zoning was changed and therefore is pre-existing non-conforming It's a pre-existing non-conforming structure and so what Mr. Roblesky is looking to do is to take down this piece and To rebuild it and to go no closer to the lot line that it currently is essentially take it down Put it right back up, but it will be new And I think there's a few good reasons to do that and so Your finding needs to be that Him doing that is not substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing Location off of the sideline and we would suggest that it's not so that's that's what's existing and then I'll scroll down I can show you it as well after and so that's what's proposed so it's this portion Right here that is coming down and effectively being repurposed, but not going any closer to the lot line So I've got for more visuals Here is that area that's going to come down You can see on the back here what's coming down and then where it's going back up in and what is going back up in its place So I think we discussed this last time But this is just the technical means to get to where we need to get to and so we would suggest that you could make the finding that it's Not substantially more. It's not just more detrimental at all let alone substantially more detrimental So I don't know if you want to take the special permit now and discuss it or how you want to do it But just I think it's probably the low-hanging fruit here. Do people have questions on this? Michael I do What does the Repurposed edition whatever we want to call that little section look like from the side of the butters Are there any windows on the backside And there will continue will it look the same as it does now Trailer as part if you remember people that went out to the site visit that portion of the building is just set on stone And loose brick and that's why it's sagged that much So it'll be rebuilt in that same spot with one window on the back. So yes, I'm looking at the Butter side. It's not going to look any different Other than the extension of the roof for the bike cover Which will also be closer to the light lot that is currently allowed That where the bike cover is actually it's it's going to be pretty close to the 10 feet the front of the Front of the existing house is four point nine feet almost five feet in the south end of the house As you go back to the previous map right there and then a back the back corners nine and a half feet So nine feet six inches so the farther it goes back those lines spread So it's pretty close to the 10 feet at that point But it's it's parallel with this that side of the building correct, right? But not parallel to the property line is what you're saying, right? so So that covered bike shelter if where it begins is nine point five I see what you're saying by the time you get to the northern edge of it You're at ten feet. So it's a little triangle You're saying a sliver of that covered bike shelters in this within the tenfold buffer Maria That perspective you showed kind of shows how the lower left one will that basically is the view from the butters sort of mirrored in The way because it looks like it's You know, you see the shed you see the little gable roof The only issue and I agree you're not really going that much closer to you're not making it more non-conforming in other words I guess the only thing is if there's lighting for those bikes under this sort of open area Is there I don't remember this the light sort of map But is there gonna be spillage to the butters or I mean, I'm sure it's downcast but before you know It was just the structure, but now you have a covered bike storage area, which you know actually Yeah, there is gonna be in a lighting plan shows that just recess lights or you know lights on the ceiling They're just pointing down Currently there's a spotlight on that back door there Which is you know kind of shine so actually the lighting to the neighbors will be improved And is that a six foot fence? About six and a half six and a half Janet I mean a little trouble. So in the top picture on the left, what's that thing in the corner? Is that like a trailer or something? It is a trailer it just belongs to them that photo was used Because it kind of gave the right angle to superimpose the new addition on it's not there It hasn't been there for like two years It was a trailer for the Crossman properties And so when we go to the new picture right below it is that trailer still there? Yeah, just only because it the way they superimpose it and I don't know maybe Chris knows how photoshop works or something That's why it looks kind of yeah out of place where it's set But there's no other way I guess to show the roof line And how it needs used it as the base and so the rendering on it So if you took the trailer away, could the person in the next door backyard see the bikes? No, okay, so there's like there's like a wall Fence there Okay, and then the other question I have just partly for the visual confusion is does the So there's a roof line for the little little house and then for the bike shelter It doesn't go the bill. It's not any long bigger than it is now No, it follows the same roof line At the new the new structure will the only difference is the new structure is going to be a little bit higher Like a foot and a half higher because those walls on the existing I can stand on my forehead touches that gutter in the front there So so it's it's not any bigger in terms of a roof. Okay, it's just a little proper. It's hard to see Any other questions on this part? I See none Do you want to move to the SPR Sure, there any They can take them out right they can take it now or After but he was just asking about public comment If you want to take it now for the special permit or if you're in it for the special Does anyone here have questions on the special permit the part I see none So maybe What we can do is talk about architecture and then turn around and talk about maybe management and parking after that if that's okay, and so I don't know if Christine You want to talk through some of the changes that you made and maybe What I will do would you rather as a board see All three what was originally approved what was proposed last time. Yeah, the flippers here flipper. Yeah What was approved proposed and If there's if that's a genuine question, I just go with what's current What's the latest and the greatest perfect and if we need perspective we know that you can flip well I agree with that. It's on my resume after the last Good evening. My name is Christine Royal. I'm an architect working with Maple Street Architects out of Northampton I am a town resident as well So based on the committee's feedback from our last meeting we have adjusted the way that the Front facade looks facing though Yeah, the way the front facade looks at the street We did add a window as suggested which really does help Reduce the size of that wall the green wall that faces the street gives it some context and We added the low planting Shrevery at the parking spaces that you can see up front We also had a discussion about the existing uplighting on the sign So our proposal is to relocate the existing pole light that you can see back by the porch and the stairs to the front To the front by the low shrubbery in the Basically to about right here so that it'll light both the sign and the entry and the parking And remove the existing uplight that shines on the signage There was also a discussion about the bracket detailing on the existing building and while it's not shown in this Rendering we have gone through and and pulled some bracket detailing and reviewed it with the owner to To use as detailing on the wood trim porch of the new proposed which would be here. Oh Yes, and then you also were wondering about the Million details on the windows which we've included in the rendering which was the intention originally but as you had noted Wasn't really visually represented in this So the the view from the West looking at the West facade has not changed very much But I don't I don't think that there was really a lot of Comment on the way that this had been broken down by proportion and by massing Oh the window on the West on unit four This one my other right I Think some of the comment was Previously there was nothing here and it was just a lot of massing and so there's obviously the addition of that window Could you just do one flip back so we can just have one? memory of Do you want to see what you what we looked at last time? Okay without the with the massing You know without the extra detail just so we can really go. Oh, yeah Now did you change the windows? I think there were bathroom windows in the back They still you know small, but they look more robust. Did you put wider trim on them or something? I think when we went through and defined the million details on those front bottom windows Mm-hmm. I need to switch when we redefined these and the rendering We did the same thing to redefine these as discussed. Yeah, they pop a little more. Mm-hmm So should I open? Are you ready for questions? Does the board have any questions on this? New rendering Maria I don't have questions. I just you know, thank you for that Burton making you know the changes I like the project last week and I think you've actually approved it just putting a little more scale sort of things and tweaking it And I think that the scale of it fits the adjacent properties and the language So, but yeah, thank you for you know making that extra effort It's not really a question Thank you. We appreciate the dialogue and the feedback that we've received Any other questions or comments on this part? Michael I'll have to echo Maria's I think it looks much better. It's amazing what one little change can make My point of view anyway What it does for me is it separates The front section of the building from the back section of the building So it again looks like it used to in the original rendering Which was almost like two separate buildings and now it looks like that again and thank you Thank you So we will move on to the other Documents it could be asked questions. Yeah, if you've got general questions We're happy to answer them if you want us to explain the Parking plan. I know parking came up last time. We're happy to do that That's exactly what I was thinking. I Noticed you have an addendum to those were the just the two you have the parking management plan And then you had an addendum just I wasn't sure you know is that an addendum to your That was no, it's an addendum to the management plan So what the bylaw requires is some additional information and so the last time we had the previous number of units The total number of dwelling units and now that has changed so in the same thing with the number of bedrooms So Ms. Brestra Suggested that and recommended that we update that to reflect what's actually in front of you So that's all we've done is is to update that Are there any questions from the board on Any of this additional information provided? Parking spaces or the management plan I'll go with Michael and then John it I still I'm concerned about the parking spaces the number of them and First of all the Got my notes here. Excuse me. Forgive me Yeah, I'm Page seven of the development application report The applicant is proposing 32 parking spaces overall including 16 compact spaces As I read those the zoning bylaw it says 50% of the standard parking spaces can be Of a cup for compact spaces but that's if you take 50% of 29 parking spaces, sorry Where am I gotta get my math correct here? There are there are not 16 Full parking spaces if you don't you take out the Handicap spaces am I am I correct in that they're all together 32 spaces correct? So yes, if you 16 of them track the ADA compliant spaces Which I but those are not standard parking spaces. I've never I don't think right I mean, I think we have interpreted it as and in previous projects have interpreted as if there's a different interpretation It's somewhat news to me that the Standard parking spaces are inclusive of the ADA spaces because they are standard standard ADA They're still standard. It is not that I think the distinction is Standard and compact not necessarily standard standard ADA and and compact and so the ADA spaces are Considered standard with 32 total Standard spaces half of those would be the 16 which were at that 50% threshold Well, that's one way of reading the bylaw. I'm not sure that's the only way or the correct way in addition Holding that in advance I With with 35 bedrooms and 25 spaces for residents That seems significantly less than even one space per unit per bedroom When the bylaw calls for two spaces per unit so I think we're asking for a Very large waiver here And I'm not comfortable with that size of a waiver given the nature of the Building and the proposed Occupancy of the building which still as I understand it excludes undergraduates Although I'm confused about that sometimes it says there will be undergraduates It's available for undergraduates and sometimes say it's not so I don't know where we stand on that issue but either way It seems to be designed for graduate students and young professionals and Some of the One-bedroom units and studio units and presumably most if not all of the two-bedroom units Will have more than one person living in them presumably and The likelihood of of more than one person living in a unit having Only one car is You know, it's likely that that will happen It's also likely that it may not happen in certain certain instances two people living in one space frequently have different jobs Go to different places have different lifestyles in terms of their Working relationships and may in fact need two different cars So there's a certain logic to having two cars required for a for a unit On the one hand, I can understand the notion that well the market will take care of this if people want to live here and You know, they know that they can't they can only have one car and That's it. So the the market the buyer beware on the other hand and there's a certain logic to that I can understand that but on the other hand it's Part of the board's responsibility. It seems to me protect potential tenants and To provide them with reasonable Facilities to ensure that they have reasonable facilities at their disposal and I am I question whether less than one Parking space per unit purpose are per bedroom is a reasonable provision of parking under the circuit under this conditions that Exist in that particular part of town. I understand there's a good bus service there And I understand you're providing bicycle facilities and and many of your residents will take advantage of those on the other hand Amherst is still a town and it's not a city. The buses don't go everywhere You know, the bike will go everywhere if you have enough time and energy to ride it anywhere but buses and bikes and walking Are important in this area, but they are not the end all and Unfortunately for us in this day and age Maybe not 20 years from now, but now We are in an area in era and an area where the automobile is important to most people and And I I question whether we have enough parking here. That's sort of the end of my statement Well, you are next in the queue so I Have my Section of the bylaw 7.9 on waivers and I think at the last we met I asked you for Information and data that would meet the waivers requirement and so my question is what is your Give me if you can give me some information on what you expect People what kind of your tenants to need in terms of cars and so I can give you a bunch of the stats from the master plan and then from the transportation plan and then So a few from the PVTA. They're all very discouraging about non-car use and so we you know that the I assume you're going under you're trying to waiver Provision are you going under when you seek your waiver? I think we're looking at 7.9 1 0 where You've got two complimentary uses. So we've got the Office the commercial spaces during the day and then we have residential at night. So I think Not the double count is important and Then we're also providing a parking management plan and so when you ask what do we think we need? I think what mr. Roblesky is providing is is what he thinks he needs and it's it is based upon What he's seen at his Bruce Ridge project what he's seen at 70 University Drive And in that project and Also looking at just parking utilization and typically what you're seeing is about and I think John's got some data He went out I think this morning at 430 to to take a look at a bunch of different Housing projects in the surrounding area and to count the number of cars and he's come up with similar to what you find out of Boston or Cambridge or Arlington that there's a 36 percent. I think is the number Non-utilization rate so or put another way of 64 percent utilization rate and When we're looking at what John's providing here, I think the market does help dictate I think there are a significant number of Existing and proposed housing For folks who want cars want to vehicles Or don't want any vehicles. I know there are folks who say I'm not going to have a car and that's why I live in Amherst And if you look at the the bed to parking Space ratio you're at 71 percent so that's even above what the utilization rate is and that's building in You know the ADA spaces the EV spaces and I Think you've got the guest parking as well And so I think from not to speak for John but to speak for John from his perspective He's got sufficient parking and I think Appropriately managed because I think to a certain extent I don't respectfully know if it is the planning board's job to look out for the tenants I think there is a tenant obligation to look I think if you're looking out for someone It's probably for the neighbors of the neighborhood to make sure that folks aren't sneaking cars on and parking in the street Or parking somewhere where they're not supposed to and then you've got a hazard for pedestrians and the butters and all of that And so I think that comes down to management of it and appropriate management to make sure that folks aren't parking where they're not supposed to That the lease is restrictive enough and penal enough where if somebody is doing something they're not supposed to You let them know and then there there's potentially an eviction after that And so I think to answer your question a long-windedly, but as directly as I think I know how it's the seven point nine point one Seven point nine point one zero and seven point nine one two with the parking management and then the two complimentary uses So I mean we're happy to get into some of that those numbers if you'd like to But I think that's it's John's sense and position that Given everything he knows and given the way it's going to be managed. This is sufficient So you have data so and it's based on one morning Going around to different. Yeah, I I went this morning at 4 30 in the morning and drove around You know kind of the perimeter of where center East Commons will be and you're unfamiliar with what's here as far as other apartments and so forth So I mean 13 and 15 high Street is right across the tracks Six new units were built there probably four or five years ago So they have 16 spaces there, but they're not marked out its gravel parking There was eight cars parked there. So that's 50% utilization My property at 22 high Street. I got 34 spaces and there was 20 cars parked there about 4 30 this morning 70 University Drive I drove down there. There's 47 spaces and there was 25 cars, I'm sorry, there was 34 spaces and 24 being used 20 and there's how many apartments are in that complex 12 So in that complex I have 2.33 spaces per unit and And they've been empty like I went there this afternoon replace them parking lot lights post lights There were seven cars in a parking lot. So and there's other data. I've been researching this the past couple of weeks There's all kinds of information out there as far as Parking utilization is being overbuilt in past years and how different areas of including Massachusetts are looking at parking for new development Excuse me. I'm sorry. You got interrupted.  You were going through your list. Yeah, 70 University Drive. You're familiar with that. There's 47 parking space. There's 60 bedrooms there 36 apartments 25 cars were parked there this morning So that's 46% that's not being used 622 and 630 Main Street. It's on a corner of Spalding in Maine. There's 12 units there Again, it's not marked out. There was I figured up enough for like 30 cars there. There's 15 part there My property I have another house 734 Main Street. I have 10 bedrooms there three units. I had six cars there Sale on place now sale in place is probably a good thing like Mr. Burt was so you're referring to student rentals I think there's a lot of undergrads there from my past experiences on a police department and so forth There's 82 parking spaces there and There was 20 that were empty. So that's you know a lot more cars were parked there So that's still left 24% that weren't being used Aspen Chase, which is between College Street and Main Street There's 67 bedrooms there 82 spaces There were 16 empty there. So that's more student rentals there, too. They're smaller one bedroom One or two bedrooms there very small 683 Main Street, which is Watson Farms. It's actually a town project there. I Don't know if it's a subsidized project or what? But there's some small units there one bedrooms, and there's some three and four bedroom units there There's 52 bedrooms there 46 parking spaces. There's only 19 cars part there So it's 58% unused again the Spalding Street there's Eight condos or they're basically rental units there 24 spaces they had 14 cars 35 High Street, which is right across from Spruce Ridge on High Street. There's 11 units there 18 spaces had 11 cars Park there and then 285 Main Street is the building down here that burned a few years a couple years ago And they rebuilt it six units in there 16 parking spaces. There is nine cars So overall it's there was 403 parking spaces available in 146 were empty and this goes with a lot of data I've been reading Boston did a 20 Surrounding Metro Boston they did 20 communities there, and they found 36% of parking spaces and Condos and multi-families were going unused And I think cities in towns are starting to look at this and say that space that can be used to create More housing and more return to the cities and towns as far as tax dollars provide Close proximity to transit is a big thing Governor Baker just signed a thing last month, you know about It's the transportation and global initiative or something and part of that is smart parking and this is what they talk about Creating a less parking and some other studies that are out there said if you build more parking You're gonna entice people to get a car you build less the idea. I guess is to build the amount of parking that Is going to be used So I mean looking at these figures even from this morning. I think what we're asking for Will work You know based on next door based on these other properties And I think the way we're designing this Part of it goes along with the master plan by the way to Chapter 9 of transportation and circulation Objective T4 says Amherst should revise its owning and subdivision regulations to promote infill and direct new development toward Appropriate locations and to allow density sufficient to support a viable public transit And I think this is why this particular parcel was included in the BN rezoning back in 2011 somewhere in there So it kind of fits and then the other option if you look long term is are we gonna have You know rail service here at some point in the future Is it gonna come back probably not but I mean tracks are right there. It just it fits the scenario of providing housing more dense housing In an area on the outskirts of downtown where public transit is available And I've got data from the PVT a that'll back a lot of things up to in Bikable area walkable area in nine minutes here right here I spoke with the Alex for us from the PVT a planning department And he's aware I told him there's gonna be possibly 35 more veterans here in East Yeah, that's root is already overloaded Remember the last meeting I said one of my tennis was coming over and they wouldn't let him on a bus because it was full And he gets a skateboard to go to your mass But in September of 2019 that stopped they call it a gracedy gray street stop the average daily boards was 202 people So I mean the whole neighborhood there uses that and That's I think just it makes sense for this Project to go there For a lot of good reasons. I think in the way. I've got it laid out Center East Commons this creates a nice walkable attractive and efficient Building there and it's gonna serve the tenants well well gonna serve the businesses that will be located there. Well and it creates the infill that I think was part of the mentioning in the Master plan and it's a nice balance of residential business and green space You know on this part of the redesign you'll have more green space between the buildings there instead of parking The bike rack and everything and it's it's right next to the PVT a and I just think it makes sense and I feel myself that the parking is it gonna work and As far as you know more than one person per bedroom. I've always had a rule one one person per bedroom Mary couples obviously you're gonna run into that But I've got a married couple of next next door there and they've got one car I've got a married couple at 734 Main Street. They've got one car and a bike So I really feel it's it's very doable and it's gonna work. I Just want to make one quick comment that the study you were referring to was sent to the planning board this week. It's the Met Metropolitan Boston perfect fit parking initiative from the MAPC. They just came out in July 2019. So it's very current Yeah, and you were very good about restating most of what I found what I found interesting is when I added these spaces up Later today and divided them into the total available 36% come on use the same as Boston area. I noticed that when you read it, but yeah So I saw Janet's hand and and then Michael. No one Can I just say one more thing? I'm regarding come the issue of the two parking space or the 50% compact I'm pretty sure we got an interpretation from Rob on that that it was a total parking So it's not you know the standard that mr. Burt was so brought up It's it's the 50% of the total parking including handicapped EV station, etc And it makes sense because the cars are much smaller And that you'll be with the sabers, you know of years ago So I appreciate that you did that because I did that one morning to the High Street thing and most of the spaces were used on a Sunday morning and so morning. Yeah a lot of you know Sometimes you'll have a guest Stay overnight or something out of weekends. Yes, there were only six empty spaces So I think that This is actually where I was sort of heading which is that we need more information about parking use and what are people going to do So that was like a snapshot at I appreciate that you were up at 430 doing that and the transportation plan calls for the town to do studies of actual use and need and After doing those kind of studies to change the zoning bylaw to adjust because different parts of town will have different needs The master plan like you just said, you know, do basically revise your zoning regulations And so I think that this issue that you're raising is very critical but and We just don't have the data and so, you know, that is a great snapshot. I'd love to see more So I collected some data From some of it's from the master plans some transportation plans some from the American community survey Some from the PVTA and some from the assessor's office in Amherst only 10% of people use the bus Only 3% bike overall In Amherst center 30% walk to work. This is this is the percentages for people who are commuting 30% walk, but that area called Amherst center includes UMass And the whole campus the ridership on PVTA is going is down. It's down to 4% They've removed they've reduced some of their bus service. There's 2,000 more cars that pay excise tax in Amherst In 2019 and then 2009 and we know we have at least two or three thousand more students here there are more cars and Fewer bus drivers overall. I don't have the numbers of the PVTA use in Amherst I couldn't pull that out of the document and so 32% of commuters work outside of Amherst. There's not a lot of information about Individuals car use because I think this is a really hard place to live without a car and most people I know who in families or couples have two cars at least and so that's that would be really interesting to me about How many cars per person, you know in Somerville where I used to live which is the most dense Community city in New England There's one car for every like one point one five six of a person Which is sort of startling because it's very dense and has a lot of mass transit We're not that well served by mass transit unless you're going to UMass or Hadley or Northampton when the schools are in session and after that it really drops down and so I think that I would look I want I want to I would love information on the way Like these are not going to be undergraduate students that you're keeping out. They're gonna be grad students. They're gonna be adults They're gonna be people with jobs And I'm not I need to be convinced that Going to that amount of cars is gonna use them. The other question I really have is you know If I had two people over for the Super Bowl That would kill the guest spaces in this thing And so I think when you say that people have people over for the weekend people have guests they visit There's just not a lot of space here for people and so We've gone from 48 spaces down to 32 some of those are handicapped spaces and so it's really you know Really compressing the site and what happened will need a car The management plan for that and how does your plan reduce the use of you're expecting from people? I Still think taking I'm sorry I think taking away saying telling tenants you can't park doesn't reduce the need for parking. It just reduces the parking so The management plan is supposed to reduce the need for parking and then provide I mean so when I look at management plans I see you know car pools van pools in Somerville. There's like a guaranteed ride So if you need a ride you get a guaranteed ride. There's ways of helping people who need a car Had to get there some other way so that's Well, that's you know part of you know a lot of the data that you can look up That's what they're saying, you know the millennial groups age 16 and 34 Because of uber and Lyft and everything else and the cost of owning a car They're just not doing it. They're not buying houses. They're not buying cars That's a new generation and I think that's where we're looking You know to provide housing for to a certain extent anyway and It's not all you know, I don't know what the mix is going to be. I mean, that's our hope you know as far as tenants but In a new management plan, I say well qualify an undergraduate. So It's it's a way to manage a property to be straightforward about it And I've always been pretty tight on Managing and tomming cars if I need to but I've never went into that problem to be honest, you know Super Bowl parties or whatever You park on the street for that night like anybody does, you know, if you had a party at your house You don't have another woman in the driveway. That's where they park. It's only for a few hours But I got to look at you know from a management standpoint the owner of the property How am I going to enforce that is it going to be enough and Based on my experience with the two other properties in town since 1981 I think this is very to a point and very controllable Maria so We keep saying we need a lot of data a lot of data and I don't think this project is the project to solve our Distance between what's in our zoning bylaw for parking and what this project is providing I think we should look at this project through the lens of site plan review and what this Owner has done with the space that They had available. They very respectfully scale the project to the neighborhood You can see from the site plan They maybe can add one or more spaces, but then they lose the green space So based on the space they have at the site The number of actual beds is 35 beds and there's 32 spaces So again, right some of those spaces are handicapped or electric charging spaces. So it's not Too far off and I really appreciate the data you collected that was really eye-opening And I hope that was all captured in the minutes because I'd love to keep that data And so also hearing how you will be really respectfully managing this property as you do your other properties I feel like we shouldn't be punitive to this project and this client this owner this developer this Because this project has done very well as far as being respectful of the site maximizing the number of units that you know, they think the market can handle or is is asking for and Space in these high-density areas near downtown is so valuable to give that space to a car Seems so backwards to me, but again, that's a bigger discussion we we should be looking at this project for itself what it's providing and based on What it is providing as far as the number of housing the amount of Office space and the parking they're not it's not like there's this huge reach of a You know greedy sort of I'm gonna put 200 units and provide eight spaces, you know, it's pretty close and I think to Have the parking be the reason this project doesn't go forward is a real shame I think it's gonna bring a lot to this area And Yeah, I don't think it's a big ass. I don't think it's a big take that they're taking from the community by Not reaching the two per unit parking requirement. That's currently in our zoning by-law And I think we should just focus on this project and not about the bigger issues of what ifs, you know What if this person has one car or two cars or what if you know, I think Just looking at this project. It's done very well For the space it has and for giving a good balance between residents office users and so I Guess I just I would I would hate to see this project go under Because of a bigger discussion where we've been constantly having on many projects about parking count. So Yeah, that's my two cents. Could I make them one comment? Well two comments, you know this if you look at the project you approved Last July the number of bedrooms is 16.6 percent more So it's not all that much more as far as a better account I Forgot what the other point I was gonna make It'll come Doug I Just wanted to confirm. It's my understanding. I am not voting on this because I was not part of the earlier hearing I Was gonna bring that up next that I was gonna finish with the questions on this but then remind everyone that if we are going to take a vote on this that Both the SP and the SP are need five votes to For a super majority of seven members of the planning board We have one member that is sick today, and we have a new member, which I was gonna Introduce you at the end, but we have Doug here and due to the way it works. It has been decided That he is unable to vote today. So there's only yes So there's only five of us here and we will need a unanimous vote. So We need to come to some kind of Agreement on the parking because that seems to be the issue I just want to put Know a lot about parking probably too much But I just want to bring up one other element that hadn't come up that you know transportation is is Quickly evolving and preferences are changing the data shows that that's what these parking studies are showing that the generations that are behind us are changing their driving habits and a lot of that has to do with climate change and Amherst is a place that really believes in sustainability and green issues and this is one way Maybe we can justify why we would okay a project like this Today in the Gazette senator Heinz had an editorial About you know the green initiatives that are being Taken up by governor Baker and there was just one stat It's at Massachusetts has five million cars and light trucks and they contribute to 40 percent of our carbon emissions Every day. So if nothing else, I know as a parking semi professional that this ratio is okay You build your parking for it to be 80 to 90 percent. You don't build it to be 30 or 40 and for event parking That's not what you do So you want to find that that sweet spot and do we know if this is the sweet spot? We do not but I'm willing to take a risk because this building is being built for more than a 30-year life span And I know that five years from now. We will be a hundred percent sure on this sweet spot And as we have looked at the studies the number is far below one I mean that that 18 Municipalities they looked at the number ended up being closer to point five five. So that's my two cents David Well, I'm sympathetic to the request for the waiver of the parking requirements The study that that a number of people have cited and that you cited to mr. Roblesby did ties the reduced parking with also an increased opportunity for affordable housing and And it seems that this is an opportunity here for to you know one way to I think Perhaps persuade be more present of a more persuasive case Perhaps for the reduced parking is that according to the get in the Metro Boston perfect fit parking initiative Providing affordable units reduces the demand for parking even more in the according to the study and intuitively that makes sense to me And because of the location of it this site seems like it's an opportunity Would that be something that you would be willing to consider? I'm not sure. I'm not really familiar. I've heard stories about if you do providing an affordable unit that the town Manages it or something and I guess it would be have to be something. I would look at there one more information on I'm really not familiar with dealing with that. I know I know how to deal with my properties and sure I'm really not familiar with dealing with that I know I know how to deal with my properties and sure Well, it does involve a process maybe Chris can elaborate on that What it entails like the monitoring yes support, I think mr. Riedi is probably a really good resource for this right now because he has a client who recently Built a building on University Drive and he included for affordable units there And he's building another building on University Drive and including I believe five affordable units, but in any event it requires It's a it's a fairly complicated process. You have to Unless you're very well schooled at it. You need to hire somebody to help you hire somebody to Do a lottery to choose tenants and then once the tenants are chosen you have to sort of monitor their eligibility to remain where they are and you have to you know do reporting and You have to put your property Under a deed restriction in order to make sure that those units are maintained as affordable so You know, there is there is some more to it than Just charging lower rents Maybe just to buttress that a little bit and what Chris mentioned with the deed restriction So there's a regulatory agreement that is required to be signed to qualify The unit or the units on what's called the subsidized housing inventory, which is monitored and managed by the Department of Housing and Community Development One of the provisions of that regulatory agreement requires that if the property is ever transferred The town and the DHCD Effectively get to disqualify anybody that would want to buy the property if it doesn't meet certain requirements And so when we're talking about, you know, mr. Roblesky and if there was a regulatory agreement associated with it Then if you were ever to sell it to transfer it He would have to first go to the town and say here's who I'm transferring with who what do you think? I can tell you just from some transactional experience time is the friend of no deal And then if somebody who is also not well versed in the subsidized housing inventory or what it entails because there are Costs associated with lottery their cost associated with the monitoring and maintenance and then there's also a Less rent so for a one or for one bedroom Let's say with the utility allowance. You're probably less than seven hundred dollars a month and for Maybe that's a studio and for one bedroom We're probably at seven hundred and ninety dollars a month for a two-bedroom or probably at a thousand dollars a month Which is if you know what market rate rents are here in Amherst. There's a few hundred dollar per month Difference and so that is borne entirely by the developer at that point They have to construct it the same way that they do every other unit And so but they're getting less rent for that unit or those units, but it's that Whole of that aside, I think it's that regulatory agreement in that the additional hurdles to jump through for a transfer of the property That that can cause some concern, especially If someone were to come and look to buy it you also if you're gonna get a mortgage You have to get the bank to be on board with having this regulatory agreement as well. And so it's While it is I mean good intentions and we understand I think maybe miss robust who have to think about it offline a little bit I mean, I don't know Part of this is contextualizing where we are right now And so he has an approved project with 30 beds and he's coming back to ask for five more beds And it feels like there's And I agree with the planning board member who says let's look at what we're doing here with the infill development and What this is in the scope of it and understanding that there are larger issues in town I mean, I think you know that I'm involved in a lot of the different projects and know of the parking of the affordable of all these issues But I would agree that this isn't Respectively the project To have hung up for those things. I think there has to be a zoning by-law change I think the planning board understands that and they're gonna get data and actually effectuate that and I think that That is both parking and with affordable units. I think there's a lot that Should and can be changed I think that there are waivers You know when there are folks that may say you're not working in accordance with the by-law and in my response would be no This is exactly what the by-law provides because it builds in that section 7.9 Waiverability if if you wanted it to be in accordance with the by-law you wouldn't provide an out through a waiver You would require somebody to go through a variance, which is a very specific process under state law With a zoning board of appeals that requires soil shape or topography Right, I mean you get it if we won't have to talk about other towns that you can get it in but I Just I want to suggest that this is an appropriately designed site Based upon the data that John has looked at based upon personal experience And I think based upon best practices So I will we'll look at the the affordable Pieces a little bit of horse trading Frankly, I don't know that I could recommend that he Says it's worth the five bedrooms to go through it because I can tell you that with Amherst housing authority is as far as marketing goes you're talking about you know for the four units on University Drive was $25,000 just to go through the market the lottery to get to that point and that's not the annual Monitoring it's not the maintenance and it's not the difference between fair market and what you're getting and so There's a lot and I think as you're thinking about zoning changes. Maybe I don't think developers mind doing it If there's some incentive if you get more market rate units And so that subsidy is kind of spread out a little bit more evenly instead of all affecting the developer so Well, but you aren't getting more units. You're requesting five more units Five more beds five more beds Right, you know to talk about that a little bit in my years of dealing with people I mean, I understand people We're all people and there's situations that have come up through the years where the rent is considerably lower Because I recognize that they have family issues or whatever. They're trying to raise three kids or whatever So, you know in a way on dealing with subsidies I'm taking money out of my pocket and my voice pocket my grandchildren's pocket so to speak But I understand people have different things going on in their life we all do and I guess I managed from the heart Not only from the pocketbook so this issue for me is Important because I think that if we go from the by-law which requires two parking spaces per unit And then we're going down, you know one space per bed or whatever I think we're starting using this waiver the planning board is starting to amend the by-law by waiver and My question is how do you meet the standards of this waiver and it's not to me? It's very specific It is important to me what it says and I think the impact is It it does land on the tenants that can land on the neighbors and so I'm not You know and you do have a project that came to us before and I was I was so I really like that project the first one I thought what there's enough parking. There's enough space, you know It's it's right size for the lot and everything like that So I don't think we're gonna kill that project if we say no to this project and I Just think that we can't you know every time we talk about the perfect fixed report Which is based on the Boston metro area. I don't know why we're talking about it because we don't live in a city You know that we don't live in a major metropolitan area and I would be very interested in knowing What the parking needs are in Amherst and that's what the transportation plan identifies specifically, you know The downtown is when well studied, but even in you know, we have a no parking district where there's one people are looking We you know in those two buildings They're using more than one permit or parking permit or space per per unit and so That isn't quite working And so you know I would recommend the planning board look at that and say, you know we need to have enough parking for people in the building and So I just think I think we need to do the studies before we do amend the by-law And I'm not willing to amend the by-law by just waving and waving and waving Oh, we you know believe about Millennials or we think is going to be in there, you know, I just Don't have the data and I would actually love to I'd love that you went out and did that because I sort of do that, too Okay, so at this point Let's just move on to some other issues that were left hanging at the last meeting. I Had a question about the landscaping At the last discussion a member had brought up concern about the parking spots in front of the existing building And we talked about how they were going to be there eat the electric Charging station spots and why they had to be there because they're near the connection and all that But there was talk about how you know it You know, everybody doesn't think Electric cars are beautiful, but not that beautiful So you talked about putting a bed and I saw that there were some plants, but I was still a little concerned if they're you know 365 year round plants or could it be a fatter bed? Could it tie into where the sign? Is you know, actually create a larger bed with some actual bushes and greenery so what we've got On the screen is what we're proposing, but I think we can take a look at Making it more robust. So you this is the spot This is the spot that you're talking about right here. Yes, exactly We there was nothing there before right there was nothing there before and so it got brought up So the architect had added she mentioned that during her talk that she did put some Greenery there. I'm just saying I in my mind had something a little bit more robust I think it was Maria who brought up she can if you There's there's gonna be some thought obviously those aren't to size But there's gonna be some taller shrubs around the transformer there in the back. So you're gonna have the parking space Barrier so to speak the sign and some bigger bushes behind there also I think it's Shielding the cars from the roadway to so you don't notice the cars of the parking lot so much like a You know, it's a bit of a raised bed around the sign if maybe you just had a little bit like continued that And come around and then just put some add some more robust Yeah, stuff that's sort of green You know some some of it to be more green or evergreeny or something that you know We can yeah, we can look at that and whether it's like a spruce or something that's yeah We can some low are you know, but I'm not Okay, I agree two things there. Absolutely. Maybe not literally connected, but visually connected would make us would make good sense Ask a quick question Can can I be reminded why the transformer has to be there or is it just there already where it connects if you move them to behind the building it's Far away is that more expensive or oh, yeah, okay? And so I didn't realize that shrubs have been put in I would recommend Them high enough to screen the view to cover the car because you know when you go up Main Street You basically see lawns and lawns and lawns and so this would sort of jump out as cars looking like they're parked on the lawn Yeah, high shrubs would be great cuz if you remember the the topography rises. Yes, and if you put Even if it's a foot raised bed, and then you have a four-foot bush I think you're lower on the street so you can see I think Even bushes would make a big difference. We can come back with that It's probably gonna be similar to what that university drives about six feet 60. Yeah, I've got a Electricity But those bushes in front of the existing porch are like seven and a half feet tall And most some of them are evergreen as you see there Think of the Holly on a corner in the road of dendron and then during the summertime. It's Burning bush or something that's in between there So as you're looking up uphill plus that for the transformers going we're lower in that Section about a foot to a foot and a half Okay, but that that transformers placement is between the road of dendrons in the street Correct, right? Yes. So you wouldn't need to plan something else in front of the transfer right? Yes Which I do remember that being talked about you talked about Bushes five feet or something. Yeah, there's three bushes that we talked about this in the hokey Cyprus that they're fairly growing there and Possibility one the landscape or so we can transplant those over to there Those are like six and a half feet. That's what I remember from last time and there was talk I'm looking up the driveway and I Do see some like our varieties or bushes as you go up the driveway on the right in front of the new building Further up. We had talked about thinking about a tree or something because there was some green space there I don't know what well, that's if you remember the the comment That I said we can't put much in the front between the railroad tracks to the right side of the driveway because that's where the storm water Underground tanks right So we can't have roots growing into the air. I think we were talking about Between where you're gonna put that new rebuilt shed area and your front door of your existing There was just like green space Right there The architect was gonna look at that Propane is there well propane? Yeah, that's about the only spot right there. Okay, that's a good pain tank Okay, very there and the cover for the propane tank is gonna stick up. I think like six or eight inches But it's 16 feet long But I'm thinking you know, maybe a sitting bench in that area Like that That's what I have next door I use some of the stone in fact from where we took a barn down that was dilapidated on the high street property Built stone walls in front of the house use it for sitting benches use it for you know landscape highlights of stones That came from the site And if you could remind me of how many bike spots you had on the outside and in the Well that bike rack area is gonna be like 14 feet long Okay, so it's basically attached to the What you see now that's there it's 14 by 14 Then we're just adding that little area to the left for more trash and recycling I think there's like 14 you can pull a 14 or 15 bikes, you know with the loop style Plus what's inside in the back of the trash building there probably another Probably put 15 20 bikes there. Okay, great. Wonderful. It's a good place to bike And the other point I thought of To answer a question this you know, it says seven office spaces in the existing building Now keep in mind one of them is the section that we're going to rebuild Okay, so that's one office. So now we end up with six Now the way it's been run over the years when we bought it is it's six individual rooms basically and they share a conference room and a waiting room So what I'm envisioning is to separate that into three office Offices like two-room offices within that existing building So that's going to be you know less traffic and I think the upstairs will probably be like therapists Something like that to have people come in for an hour or something and leave and downstairs. Maybe some small office Accountants lawyers, you know some service something like that whatever is allowed under. Yeah, you won't move there Whatever's allowed under the bylaw anyway in the BN zone So it's not going to be seven offices. So to speak it'd be like three office suites Plus the new office in a new building Good to know. Thank you. Any other questions from the board Regarding other issues that we talked about the last time Madam chair just one thing an architect just wants to clarify something about the Planting in front of the park Christine Royal again I just want to say that we try to go very lightly in the renderings with how the vegetation looks so that we're not You know obscuring the way that the architecture looks But that what we've called out in the landscape plan is three Inkberry bushes in front of the parking the south side of the parking at the front that we were just discussing Inkberry isn't evergreen and it's a shrub that matures at five to eight feet So it's a little misleading the way it's rendered But we didn't want to hide the parking because we all know it's there. Yeah You had mentioned the propane tank that was one of the items that Was hanging from the last time where it was going to be put I see we have fire departments as it's fine Maybe you can just point it was in that. Yeah, right. Okay, great Yeah, we ran into an issue. I was hoping to put her on the back of the building, but the Setback for placing the propane tank. It has to be 10 feet from a building and 10 feet from an adjoining property line So with the 20 feet setback and behind the building There's your 20 feet so you can't put the tank anywhere I thought about the reason the fire department sent that last comment prior to this one I was thinking about maybe putting it on my adjoining property You can give it an easement for that too Not gonna work But this fits all the requirements and again, it's just that little cover that sticks up and Landscape around it Think of a fit Sounds good So at this point we Chris could we do the special permit? With the board feel comfortable with moving ahead on the special permit we could make a motion and First I'll just open it up if that if that's a go out I still have to do public comment to see if anyone would want to speak on the special permit Yeah, yeah, and this is really a question for mr. Reedy or mr. Roblesky If the special permit were approved with the rest of the plan were not approved would they still go ahead with the New building that is allowed by the special permit would that fit into the old plan? To serve the residents. Yeah, I think it I think it makes sense to go forward to give Mr.. Roblesky the option of If this I think we'll hear some conversation later about where this next one is going, but I think to have that Be able to come down I think whether it's with this new proposed based upon what we hear some revision thereof or the original I think this is gonna come down either way and we also The historical commission has been out there and I've had the meeting with them and they are okay with you know Rebuilding that section Yeah, I want to ask go back to a Something statement you made a moment ago about mr. Marshall not being able to vote It seems to me when we last took this up. It was SPR 2020-01 and this is SPR 2020-05 seems like this is a different SPR and So this is all the only hearing we've had on this SPR and I think you should be able to vote on this because it's The only one we've had on this actually. This is continued from January 15th. The special permit is new, but I don't I stand I stand correct. I'm sorry Chris So I think mr. Marshall would be able to vote on the special permit application, but not on the stipend review Which you've already had a hearing on It's my opinion and that would of course be his decision. No pressure as a first day on planning board Are there any other questions or issues? Either on the special permit or on how we proceed tonight Well, then I propose a motion on the special permit and just the special permit We could do that. I just have to check with public comment Oh, yes, if we're gonna move forward on this Is there anyone here to speak on the special permit part of this public hearing on 462 Main Street? I see no hands So Chris do we have to go over anything or can we just have a motion for the special permit? Yeah You'd have to make a finding that it is not Substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood to allow this to her. Can that be in the motion? And that can be in the motion so we would close the public hearing for the part of the special permit and Ex and accept that finding and then you can make a motion if you so wish, okay So I'll move that that we consider this application for a special permit and that the it's not Substantially that's more detrimental to the neighborhood or the appropriate Language, but that was the gist of it To permit the special permit going forward Is there any more discussion questions comments at this time? I See none, so we'll take a vote all in favor of the special permit. I See unanimous Okay, thank you. Thank you. That's good Is there anything outstanding on this right now like I I Mean only that do we have a land so we don't have a current landscape plan? You do have a current landscape Sounds like it may need to be updated And also what I'm hearing is I'm not sure that I have the votes on parking so I mean I Let us I guess we would request a continuation to the March 4th hearing and let us Think about Either providing more data and trying to convince some folks that there's enough or considering the affordable piece or Looking to add more parking and seeing where that Leads us, you know if there's a Way to do it. I don't know that there is and we may come back and say This is what it is Frankly take it or leave it or that's it and I mean I don't like to give ultimatums But that might just be what it turns out to be But at least let us go back and investigate and if if we can come back and make it work for everybody then great And if not, then I think we're gonna have to have a conversation that Sounds like a good option I would also love if you could submit the data you collected on the parking Even if it's a photocopy of the data you took or something and then Department could organize it or something to an Excel spreadsheet and then because I think it's useful Just generally for everything in the room So could you just know the time and the place when you did that smart mm-hmm and also if it could be per bedroom? Because you emphasize when you're going through it you emphasize the empty spaces and that's less important than how many bedrooms and how many cars Mm-hmm, and you can probably fill some of that out Janet So I'm just also going to offer the idea of sort of overflow parking maybe with the VFW across the street I know that involves a special permit But if that was the commitment and you thought that that could work out by talking to them informally Just Would you Mean and maybe some other business because there's a lot of businesses along there that probably have empty parking about Me using my parking that I have excess parking next door Yeah, so that I was just going to add you could look at that again. I and You also mentioned Possible because you're an experienced landlord you obviously care you want to run a good business That's obvious and you don't want to cause a problem And if there was a problem that evolved in your parking situation You would find ways to Right I read in your plan that you say that you would you know if it came to that you would offer rent discounts to people Who only had one car or no car? You know that could also You could look at that a little harder and actually have that as a starter for some of your sites I'm just saying just you know to consider and maybe you will have some of your apartments that a Few of them that don't have parking or only have one or whatever. I'm just saying you know look a little harder There's been some other developments around that we're it's this trying to find that sweet spot I See Michael Another thing you might think about Quoted the master plan which I appreciate One of the principles of the master plan Relative to affordable housing is that incentives be found that the the planning board the town council we find incentives to create affordable housing possibly the Going way down on the parking requirement is an incentive And if it were thought about in that way and if you came up with the one or two affordable units that might be convincing To the board might be to me anyway Janet so it just just going up the street like the red barn the Amtrak station. There's a lot of you know Businesses that at night that parking lot is almost empty. So there's spaces and you know the transportation plan talks about shared parking I know it's a little tricky getting a special permit But that might be something we should look at on the zoning subcommittee about loosening those requirements So they're a little easier for people to do shared parking can be a good thing Any other Suggestions for them to look at Chris I Just wanted to make sure that everybody knows that as Janet said the screwing on said it is a requirement to change the Permit for the property to which the parking goals So if it were to go to mr. Robert Lesky's property on high street He would have to change his prop his permit for that property if it were to go to the You know area near the train station that permit would have to change so there are kind of you know cascading Consequences for that type of arrangement Great. Thank you for reminding us of that So if we continue this SPR The 19th looks Bananas for us so it would be the next meeting. There's some space Would that be agreeable to you? I think is that oh good Lord? Is that March for fourth? Wow Okay, might be So What else I don't remember what we have on the fourth. I know mr. Mora is coming. Yes, Chris So what I remember that you have on the fourth is Rob Mora is coming change. We're changing him from the 19th of February because it's too too overloaded and also you have Jeff and Jack Brown coming about a driveway on Bay Road and I think buck go that and that's Bucky sparkle. That's right, and I think that's it's so far Bucky sparkle is an engineer. Yeah he's been here before and Depending on what happens with Amherst Hills how much we can get done between now and the 19th Perhaps that one will go on the fourth as well. Not sure but anyway We know we're having Rob Mora. Yeah, and the Browns to come about their driveway So is there a time could we set them first at that point? It's 705 on March 4th. We'll continue this hearing till then madam chair. Do we want to have any public comment on the SPR? I just in case there's a good point. Um, is anyone here to speak on the SPR? Oh Oh Great, come on up They'll make room for you No, no, that's we want you to come up sit down and Tom her her mic's on is that see you're like the flicker and the yeah, thank I just say your state your name and Just read address for the minute take her and welcome. Hi. I'm Katie right my husband And I own 513 and 531 Main Street across the street so we've just had an interest in this development and Certainly, you know, we have an eye on parking, but I think even more important than parking is just congestion in general I know the the idea is infill of available land area in the you know in the center of Amherst, but we already Mentioned that a lot of times especially certain times of the year the PVTA is Overloaded and people are, you know missing classes and late to work at things because the bus service is not available The school if you've ever tried to actually drive anywhere near the high school in the morning It's kind of a nightmare and you know So this that might be a bigger consideration, but is it Feasible to contact the PVTA and ask them to add another bus to that route Anyone can always That's a great idea and the truth is they do track the numbers very closely and demand means The more usage right, but I mean it's been that way for years. I've lived there for 20 years The other problem is they balance money, of course, so But no Everyone right right, you know and right to your the politicians and your Local representatives and all that because the more voices the more buses right so that would just well in my conversation with Alex Forrest they are aware of this particular route in particular starts at old Belcher town road out by the old landfill Gets, you know gatehouse road colonial village 31 Yeah, 31 and 30 is a 30 and there's like a 34 there's two But you know even you know like that time my tenant couldn't get on a bus You know it goes up and stops here at Churchill Street It picks up additional people goes through the center of town then the UMass and stops it through UMass and Pumptown Village But he is aware of that route is overloaded and he's gonna They're working on you know adding the tandem buses or something like that great to get more capacity So they are very aware of it and they want to work on that So it is a active work in progress. So to speak at rush hour. How many how often does the bus stop there at rush hour 15 minutes? 30 is pretty and that dad. I mentioned the 202 people I got on on Wednesdays in September and 19 60% of one were before Noon time and 50% of that was before 10 a.m So they're gonna try to you know overload the route So to speak and get more capacity to accommodate everybody to get them to UMass or wherever they're going So they are working on it. Good and put those calls and emails in Thank you for would you mind stating your last name again? Thank you Thanks All right. So at this point will I do I need a motion to continue the so somebody? Yeah, I moved to continue the meeting till March 5th at March 4th at 705 Second that someone Anyone Okay a discussion now all in favor Unanimous great. All right. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much Okay, I would like to take a little break if that's all right everyone a five minute break just So we are going to continue We will move to item for master plan update This actually ties in a lot to the Planning and zoning item 5 the zoning subcommittee report Chris maybe it's appropriate if you start and Then maybe Maria you can give a little summary of what happened at the zoning subcommittee and Reference documents that we have Start by saying that you all have two packets You received one packet in the mail and then you received another packet on your desk and most of what you received on your desk has to do with the master plan update and the agenda says revised February 3rd and We revised it because we dropped an item If I can go through the packet and tell you what's in here, and then we can start to discuss it So I guess the first two pages don't have to do with Master plan, but they there is a memo from Janet McGowan about Conversation that she and I had with someone from Pioneer Valley. No, excuse me metropolitan Boston Planning Commission MAPC on Master plan process There's a memo from Michael Burt whistle in response to the CRC memo and It talks about the difference between the words approve and adopt and then make some conclusions at the end There's a memo also from Michael Burt whistle On the master plan process in which he sort of whittles down the process that was described in the CRC memo There is a memo from well, it's the same memo from Michael Burt whistle, but it has read Highlights from Janet McGowan who? made responses to Michael's comments, and there's a Document that is it looks a little bit like a Diagram for a computer our computer works, but anyway because it kind of is yes, it's Instead of CPU it's got MPU, but anyway it describes how our website could work to Improve the communication With the planning board and others and planning staff During the master plan update process, and that's what this is all about this is about updating the master plan I didn't give a good introduction, but we've been talking about updating the master plan the Community Resources Committee has proposed a process for updating the master plan And now the planning board is trying to refine that process and come up with something that will really work for the planning board There is a document in here from That was drafted by Christine gray mullen at the top it says draft 2010 master plan update process, so this has been through a couple of iterations and last night at the zoning subcommittee Decisions were made about how the process might work better and mr. Gray mullen adapted that Document based on what she heard last night Yeah There is a schedule Look, there's an Excel spreadsheet in here that Makes a proposition about how the planning board can manage all of the things that it's working on So the planning board is working on master plan updates blood insurance maps Zoning bylaw rewrite They're going to have something to say about the 132 Northampton Road probably at two different points during the next six months reviewing South University Drive Probably reviewing an application from Amherst media Kendrick art playground and a number of other things So this is really an attempt to get a handle on how all these things can be balanced without, you know Feeling really overwhelmed and then there's I think the last thing in the packet is a chart prepared by Maria chow and that chart Seeks to make it more simple to describe how this master plan process will work So I think it would probably be a good idea if each person described his or her own document and then We could have a discussion about it. So I don't know miss gray mullen. Where would you like to start? Do you want to start with I think Maria's flow chart is probably just the easiest way to get everyone on the page of just What's going to happen because we've heard we heard from CRC? And how they're trying to get their memo and flow chart together So we're somewhat familiar with that You mean we heard from CRC based on the memo we got yeah back right but this if well Maria will get it But a lot of that oh, you know We don't get into their details, but it is mentioned on this I just want to make sure we hadn't had another communication from May I state that I have not seen the CRC memo so whenever you are talking about that I am ignorant of that document It has had a few revisions and I do think this week new like final draft Memo is coming out along with a flow chart which they have not had to this point. So you'll get it Fresh hopefully tomorrow, but we can also send you the previous one, but don't study that one is hard Okay, Maria sure so I can run through this flow chart and again This was sort of born from the feedback we were getting about the confusion and frustration with you know The process that was presented from CRC and then we don't have a process. Let's make a process And so last night I'm just going to combine this with the zoning subcommittee Report real quick in that all I'm going to say about that is that it was a really great meeting We had a lot of differing opinions different perspectives and we ended up with a really great end result I think that could only come from that dynamic and I really like that aspect of the zoning subcommittee meetings where it really feels more like a work session and If we can bring more of that to the planning board During this master plan update process. That would be really fantastic. So Anyway, so this flow chart basically starts The idea is that I'm trying to show what we have to do And what we have to do based on town charter so that it's not that these things are pulled out of the air. We actually So starting January 15th planning board agreed to the master plan update and then the next step We think is really just having Chris talk to the planning staff the town staff the various people I'm just taking a chapter and just going for it and taking a first stab at it And this yellow arrow is sort of the part that Christine Graham all and we'll go through in her memo about The back-and-forth the working section sessions the actual meat of the work the place where all of the great stuff is going to happen So assuming that goes back and forth back and forth finally we get to the planning department just Compiles all of the about nine months worth of work into a draft It goes to the planning board and we vote to approve the final draft of this master plan update And if it's a yes You can see where it goes if it's a no we go back to just working on it some more and ideally the nine months Incorporates that sort of cyclical sort of work So say it's yes. We go we present that to the CRC and at this point they have 45 days and They're getting feedback from town council and the hope is that this is definitely not the first time town council has seen it They've seen it when we were in that sort of yellow zone where we go back and forth We also have had a lot of public comment in that yellow zone, so it's it's Ideally what the the green blue path is is almost administrative after the CRC such that We should not be going back and forth And through many iterations at this point once the CRC has it That's what the hope of this process is going to bring After the CRC has it we the planning board review the feedback and we work with again with the planning department on the actual revisions And then if it all looks good the planning board votes to approve and by mass state law that planning board approves this master plan update it is our master plan and Christine will go into this Idea of this MPIC that was part of the original master plan the 2010 master plan That mentions this committee that should have been formed but never was and last night We had a great discussion about various types of subcommittees and this one sounded like The perfects that especially after the sole update process and so this last bar at the bottom is based on how the town charter was written and So the town manager gets this master plan update town council per the Charter has to hold a public hearing and And then they'll vote to adopt the master plan and the idea here is also that this public hearing is not the first and only Opportunity that the public can give comment then that sort of earlier yellow area Though Christine will go through there's so many opportunities for the public to have their voices heard this this public hearing is just sort of Because of the way the town charter was written. It's just there so So that's the gist of this flow chart. It's just trying to show We don't want to make this a round round iterative process We want to make sure we get a lot of good work a lot of good input from all the right people early on so that by the Time it goes to CRC and town council. It's almost just sort of moving through a series of steps. So Yeah, that's basically the flow chart Thank you for that overview I just want to say if we pull up the memo, I know some of you have seen What was yesterday a few things are different I just moved a few paragraphs around and What we came out of zoning subcommittee sort of simplifying the process that has all been implemented in this to The memo the memo for the proposed process I won't get into really the first page. That's more of just about how How a MPIC master plan implementation committee Well, it doesn't exist right now and that was part of the master plan when you update it So we're still gonna update it but part of the key is and this was talked about a lot yesterday is Different words float around but keeping this as simple as possible Doing a you know an update light And part of this is if you go to page 2 And there's a list reasons for keeping the update simple and limiting to necessary and obvious Those are a bunch of reasons why we're doing this and it's everything from this is our first attempt You know 2010 was the first master plan that Amherst Created and this will be their first update attempt and then you know, it's about time and workload and resources yet it needs to be done because it is part of our charge and You know town council and other committees are eager for it because so much is sort of based off off the master plan but the thing to remember is the basic blueprint or Framework of the master plan is not going to change So we talk a lot about wanting to keep CRC and town council updated, but really Even more ahead of them is we want as much public input and ways for the public to give feedback in this process Even if it is a simple or light update You know a lot of people will be bringing up comments or have concerns about more complex issues that won't be addressed now But all this will be collected very formally and it will be presented to the master plan Implementation committee. I'll call that mp. I see It will be helpful for them. It will be helpful for the next update if there's another update in five years And it will be helpful for the creation of the 2030 master plan effort that could start I mean, it could be six years now But maybe it will be determined not to do another update and instead go right for start working on the master plan But either way we will have this group That will be collecting data. So if we just go to the page If we go to page four Trying to save us time here I just want to point out what I created is planning goal I said planning board has set goals on completing this MPU master plan update and you know, this is what I came up with. I hope you agree, you know This is a lot to digest and you all have homework. So when we come back, you know, if there's You know a goal that I forgot or we want to add to these But this is what I'm hoping will keep us focused. I want this to be a win for the planning board This is kind of our baby and it's our opportunity to shine and goodness knows sometimes we need some good publicity So as I wrote this, I was listening to all of the comments and the memos that were sent I listened to town staff and I'm really I'm striving for balance. I'm It's doable. I don't want to over stretch us and I don't want to bite off too much and yet I don't want to not have it quality work so You know, take note of those goals and and think about them So if you just flip back to page three briefly the Like where there's a list towards the bottom of the page Public outreach and participation is a required and vital part of this MPU this will be addressed in numerous ways and I mentioned a website and then of course all the updates and committee other committees and public feedback and Potential meetings and forums and all that good stuff, which then takes you to My highly professional little scribble here about our proposed website. I did talk to The IT marketing Coordinator director Brianna Whether this was possible and she said it was this is we can develop a beta and get this up and running She says it's pretty simple. We just have to define our database fields. I Can bring that here or maybe is a working group the zoning subcommittee could just play with the beta to And help define the database fields because I do think if we if this works This will be very helpful for our future zoning bylaw changes And kind of doing the same process we can you know use it on this and tweak it To use it in the future and then the last thing I'm trying to talk fast here is the Evolving schedule so this has gone through a few changes because of course is Chris best of can tell us You know give it ten minutes and this probably changes again But what I was trying to show is building in the top line where sections Section or two or sometimes I see it as a new section and maybe one that's already you know gotten comments from us coming back again Just in the next six months different Dates that we could sort of make that there is like a solid like hour that we talk about and review this And I think as it evolves, you know, this is not a It's a fluid system. It's a guideline and you know, I think we'll learn a lot as we sort of work through the process But it also I thought this would be helpful just adding the other projects and I'm going to try to keep keep this fairly updated because It just gives us perspective on what we're working on and things that are coming up and all that So at this point, I'll just ask does anyone Have I think if you read the memo and look at the flow chart, you know It will make a lot of sense, but of course if there's questions, you know Make a note of it and we'll talk about it at the next time probably not on the 19th, but the fourth Chris and then I just wanted to note that this chart really just includes the more high-profile Larger projects that the planning board is going to be working on Of course the planning board will continue to work on all the smaller applications that you have But I don't see any reason to have these on the schedule I was trying the one-hit wonders I was more trying to focus on things that are especially sometimes go to two or more meetings or take a significant part of one night But yeah, but if you want to add to it, you can Michael First of all, I think this is really excellent work all this stuff. Thank you Christine and the Maria Week or so ago Christine Brestrup asked us to Suggest dates when we might not be available over the summer and I think if those were on this chart That would be helpful might be helpful to you guys and hugely Yes, so I'll reiterate it again, especially for Doug is your sort of evaluating You have we have a list. They're sort of on here, too I we have a list of all the planning board dates is you're determining your summer vacation if you're going to be away Just want to ask Chris something we've never done this, but can't people call in We've never done it, but no as long as we have a quorum here People can call in and participate. Yeah, and various boards and committees are figuring out how to do that Yeah, so it can be by Skype. It can be by phone It can be by various mechanisms because I would be willing if you all I thought the master plan is one of those issues that we Could kind of try that on I think with SPRs and special permits. It would be a little bit harder Yeah, but something like this the other part I was going to say is if people are away They can still get the section and do write-up and make their corrections feedback or whatever and send it in to us so Because it's just last summer a lot of people's vacations didn't overlap. So we missed a lot of meetings and it made a Pretty intense fall. So We're trying to avoid that a little bit this year So if people know when they're going to go away this summer or even are sort of like thinking Send it to Chris and then we'll try to update it on this and then If you're a maybe by seeing this maybe it will make you be like, oh, I could slide it that week or whatever Or I also plead if you could try to avoid, you know Planning board meetings if you can And Chris, how would we go about finding out like doing a test drive like for someone calling in and trying to do something? Yeah, okay Or we could know but we could get someone to call and I was thinking have you but like have someone call in and like Pretend to be and we could just we wouldn't do this test during a real planning board meeting But do you know any committees who are actually doing this? I have seen I have heard of committees and boards doing it I just I'm not sure which ones so I can explore that and find out about it and it requires a person who's So maybe you can talk to them upstairs and people have to ask permission from the Chair or tell the chair that they're going to do this and sort of get permission from the chair to go ahead with it So, okay Any other Questions or issues right now? so I think If one of the seven or of us aren't here for a master plan discussion I don't think that will be Problematic particularly if we have a chance to comment and writing before or leave it after because even after we discuss it Here that will still be open for public comment or questions it through the website Absolutely, I agree. I mean part of it last summer was even getting a quorum That's where we couldn't get the four So that's a good idea. We'll start Yes, so you're hoping we stagger Rather than we all take the same week off and don't mean we would rather have Well, it depends. That's what we have to see in some ways if it's only like one or two meetings It's better to stack everybody the same and miss it The worst is when everybody ends up and it's too many That's what happened and we couldn't hit the four So it's sort of a balancing act. So we'll see what people have planned. I know there's at least one member who does take Some time off to go to these somewhere else. Sorry So anyways, we'll just see how bad it is. Hopefully, you know, maybe it's not as bad this year But we also want the master plan update to keep, you know moving forward through the summer Janet so do you want Michael to talk about his memo next or if he wants to sure I don't have a lot to say Don't have a lot to say about it. I wrote it three weeks ago or perhaps two weeks ago And it's sort of gone past things at this point, but basically it was in response. I can't even find it now It was in response to The It was in it was in response to this the CRC's letter How they wanted to work things and I thought that was too complicated and I tried to propose something that was less complicated and Would do the job Because less complicated better and that was that was this memo and then It Basically called for the For us the planning board to appoint a subcommittee Which we are able to do give I looked at check that our our bylaw our Rules and regulations we can appoint committees And it's not a list there. They don't have to be just members of the planning board They can be anybody apparently because it doesn't specify that they have to be members of the planning board In any event, we would have a subcommittee of the planning board charged with Implement with Implementing this revision this late revision of the master plan and then Work with it work with staff essentially the same way that the flowchart that we were just talking about does But then after working with it with the With staff then bring it as a full thing to the planning board Keeping the planning board in the loop The pretty much the way the planning board in this iteration tries to keep the CRC and the council in the loop I Think now that we're talking about the planning having Ms. Brester bring revisions directly to the planning board for discussions on this Nine-month chart that we've been looking at I think that's a much more satisfactory and simpler Although it may be complex in terms of the individual comments around the board On those days, but I think that'll be a simpler way to do it Particularly if we can as Maria said a minute ago Treat these sessions more like working sessions and less like formal presentations The microphone thing is difficult And if we could figure out a way to have all the microphones on at the same time that might be helpful Yeah, but I don't want you all talking. That's the problem Kristine. I know you don't and that's all I'm suggesting that we do that In any event, I think if we can have if we can have a cordial and Busy working session around the table with people in the audience because that's one of the things we want How this is have Feedback in that of that kind and input not feedback just but input And I think that will be a much more satisfactory process than the one I had originally proposed So having said that I kind of basically withdraw my original proposal Thank you Janet I assume you want to talk about your memo So, um, you know after the meeting like at the zoning subcommittee meeting We were really digging into some stuff and so I was very I felt really strongly the zoning subcommittee wasn't the place for the master plan Planning kind of update to take place and that we should just focus on zoning Which is complicated enough and we have a lot on our plate I really like the idea of the starting the master plan implementation committee because you write that when you look at the implementation chapter You know, that's the first thing they say you should do and then when you look at the like You know we the town has done a lot of the implement implementing But a lot of really important things didn't get done or it makes sense You need a committee to kind of really focus on that and so I was very psyched about that for me the big issue is like what's the depth of the master plan update and so Um, if it's a master plan light, I Think that this proposal of you know just working with the planning department and the planning board makes sense If it's gonna go deeper And without revising it and doing a whole new one That was the phone call with Ralph Wilmer of the MAPC and so I don't know if people want to just sit and read You know skip everything in the beginning of this memo and just read the update steps Which is really like a page a page of stuff But the idea was to set up a steering committee of three planning board members like Michael suggested I thought we should everybody should grab three chapters They have a background in work with the planning department on that and the public and you know people from attack and all the different boar