Good evening. We'd like to call the Durham City Council meeting to order. I'd certainly like to welcome all of you that are with us this evening. If we could just take a moment of silent meditation, please. Thank you. I would ask Councilman Ed Davis. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We have the honor of being led in the Pledge of Allegiance by members of Troop 412 from the Trinity Avenue Presbyterian Church. And upon their signals, we will stand and say the Pledge. To the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you. All right, Madam Clerk, could you call the roll, please? Mayor Bell. President. Mayor Pro Tem Cole McFadden. Councilmember Davis. Here. Councilmember Johnson. Here. Councilmember Moffitt. Here. Councilmember Reese. Here. Councilmember Shull. Here. Councilmember Davis, if you would join me at the rocks. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to read the proclamation in honor of Rodney Ray Rogers, whereas Rodney Rogers was born in Durham, North Carolina in 1971 and spent his formative years in the McDougal Terrace neighborhood and whereas Rodney Rogers attended Hillside High School and played multiple sports before graduating in the class of 1990 and whereas Rodney Rogers was named the 1990 North Carolina High School male basketball player of the year and was recruited by a large number of colleges and universities from across the United States and whereas Rodney Rogers played in the National McDonald's All-Star Game for high school seniors before becoming a student athlete at Wake Forest University where he was coached by former Durham High School coach Dave Odom and whereas Rodney Rogers in a close balloting with Duke's Grant Hill, Mr. Shull, won the honor of being the 1990-1991 Atlantic Coast Conference men's basketball rookie of the year and whereas Rodney Rogers had more than had two more stellar years as a student athlete at Wake Forest and in 1993 was named the ACC player of the year and whereas Rodney Rogers was the ninth overall pick in the 1993 National Basketball Association draft and started his NBA career with the Denver Nuggets and whereas Rodney Rogers played in the NBA from 1993 until he retired in 2005. In addition to playing for the Nuggets Rodney played for the Phoenix Suns, the Los Angeles Clippers, the Boston Celtics, the New Jersey Nets, the New Orleans Hornets on the Philadelphia 76ers. It was during his tenure with Phoenix that he was so effective coming off the bench that he was selected as the NBA sixth man of the year and whereas in one famous 1994 game between the Denver Nuggets and the Utah Jazz Rodney miraculously hit a flurry of three straight three-point shots within an eight-second span and thus scoring nine points in just eight seconds and whereas during the height of his NBA career Wake Forest University held a ceremony in honor of Rodney and retired his famous, his famed number 54 which he wore at Hillside at Wake Forest and for each one of the NBA teams for which he played and whereas Rodney Rogers had been has been inducted into the Wake Forest University Hall of Fame and the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame and whereas Rodney gained a grand reputation for his thunderous dunk shots and since sports writers and broadcasters appreciated his Durham roots he was often and is often referred to as the Durham Bull in sports circles and whereas upon his retirement from professional basketball Rodney returned to his beloved hometown and voluntarily and that was a choice he made not by necessity he decided to work for the city of Durham where he quickly rose to the rank of supervisor within the public works department and whereas in 2008 Rodney was involved in a recreational motorbike accident in rural Vance County his injuries led to a paralyzed condition from his shoulders down however Rodney now however Rodney who lives and works in Person County in the Person County town of Temple Lake continues to travel and speak about his life his accident through the Rodney Rogers Foundation which he operates with his wife Faye who is here with him this evening now therefore I William V Bill Bale Mayor of the City of Durham North Carolina do hear about proclaim October 17th 2017 as Rodney Rogers Day in Durham in appreciation of his basketball career and his service to the City of Durham by the way tomorrow Tuesday October the 17th is the beginning of the NBA season and it is signed witness my hand and the corporate seal of the City of Durham North Carolina this 16th day of October 2017 and is signed by Mayor William V Bill a few words I'm very surprised I did this but it's a great thing and may I be I appreciate that and I appreciate all my friends and family here especially my wife and her sister being here and um it's just a great appreciation you know from your hometown that you know they really you know thought that you did some good things and stuff for them and I really appreciate it thank you so much Rodney thank you for being here before we leave I would like to recognize some of the people from the class of 1990 at Hillside High School who are here could you still could you stand please and and could you still remain standing and could we ask anyone else who is here who is a graduate of Hillside High School to please stand oh yeah and could you remain standing and could we ask if there is anyone from the City of Durham who worked at the City of Durham when Rodney was working with you and finally if there's anyone who graduated from Wake Forest University uh Patrick Baker would have been here but he is away at a conference but he I'm sure uh would want to contact you I think he has said that he's going to give you a call thank you so much Rodney you are our hero Rodney Rodney you uh well you've done it and you make us proud and uh it's our honor to have you here this evening to present this and well we we appreciate you trust me trust me I remember when you do do it well um we have we have two other proclamations to make this evening and again I don't want anyone to feel they have to stay we understand people have busy schedules so feel free to leave as you see fit this next proclamation recognizes let's say certified renovation day and I'd like to ask Miss Lenora Smith if you would join me Miss Lenora how you doing what was that uh Lenora has been involved in this program seems like forever forever and she participates in the TNT reduction poverty effort that we have going on in the city of Durham and northeast central Durham uh the proclamation reads whereas childhood lead poisoning is considered a completely preventable environmental disease among young children where there is no safe blood level blood lead level and children that have been has been identified whereas lead exposure usually occurs with no obvious symptoms it frequently goes unrecognized whereas the state of North Carolina enacted public health laws establishing the lead based paint hazard management program for renovation repair and painting in 2009 to protect children from preventable lead based paint poisoning from renovation activities conducted in housing and child occupied facilities built before 1978 whereas laws require that companies and individuals become certified by the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services Division about public health health hazard and control unit before performing renovation repair and painting activities for compensation whereas the county of Durham recognizes a national lead poisoning prevention week commenced contractors that have received certification to implement the lead safe work practices necessary to protect our most valuable resource in Durham our children whereas in recognition of the national lead poisoning prevention week the county of Durham encourages contractors who have not already done so to become certified and protect our children from lead dust exposure and to avoid fines up to $5,000 today for each violation now therefore William B. Bilbell, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina do hereby proclaim October 24, 2017 is lead safe certified renovators day in Durham and hereby I commend this observance to all of Durham what's my hand called facility of Durham this is the 16th day of October 2017 from representatives to the north for any comments that she may have all right well thank you Mr. Mayor good evening city council members and friends of the community the partnership effort for the advancement of children's health has been here since 1999 I think we received our initial funding at that time and that is actually when I was introduced to lead based paint the hazards associated with it especially to children under the age of six basically lead disrupts every developmental factor associated with children children as they it slows down their learning ability their attention span they have behavior problems and for this reason we're looking at protecting children from unnecessary and preventable 100% preventable exposure to lead based paint hazards and lead dust I would just like to mention that two years ago we received the proclamation from the city and that proclamation basically highlighted the law that stated contractors need to be certified at that time as Effie Steele was here with me she accepted the proclamation with me and we lost Miss Steele earlier this year in August and so I just want to mention her name and recognize the help and the support and the very solid leader she was for the Peach organization I'd like to say thank you to city staff I don't know if Ted knew was here but she's been very instrumental in the work that we do I want to thank council member McFadden and council member Davis for helping us to draft the proclamation I do want to let council know that on Tuesday October 24th from six o'clock to eight o'clock we will host a lead town hall meeting it will be held at Holton community resource the resource career and resource center 401 North Driver Street it will be from six o'clock to eight o'clock we will provide nutritious and hearty dinner and we will also provide child care for members of the community who would like to attend but may have small children and so we just thank you for totally for continually to work with us and for recognizing us at this time and if I may because this is probably my last time to say thank you to the mayor for his service to the community through the city and through the county and through the community development um UDI community development core and I would just say I am a resident that benefited from the housing the initial how housing drive in downtown Durham I rent um office space from UDI in downtown Durham very affordable so I just wanted to mention that um while you're going I wanted to say thank you for your service as well thank you that was not a paid advertisement very good thank you next we have community planning month and would like to ask uh director of planning Patrick young if you would join me worse change is constant and affects all cities towns suburbs counties urban and rural areas worse community planning plans can help manage this change in a way that provides better choices for how people work and live whereas the key component of community planning is the involvement of all of Durham citizens and making choices that determine the future quality of life in Durham whereas the full benefits of planning requires public officials and citizens who understand support and demand excellence in planning and plan implementation whereas the month of october is designated as national community planning month throughout the united states of america and its territory and whereas the american planning association and its professional institute the american institute of certified planners endorse national community planning month as an opportunity to highlight the contributions planning makes to the quality of our community and environment whereas the celebration of national community planning month gives us the opportunity to publicly recognize the participation and dedication the members of durham's appointed and elected boards and commissions and other citizen planners who have contributed their time and expertise to improve the city and county of Durham north carolina whereas we recognize the many valuable contributions made by professional planners the durham city accounting planning department extend our heartfelt thanks for the continued commitment to public service by these professionals that therefore i william v bill bell mayor of the city of durham north carolina do hear about proclaiming the month of october 2017th as community planning month in the city of durham north carolina in conjunction with the celebration of national community planning month wins my hand corporate city of durham north carolina this is 16th of october 2017th i'm going to present this to patrick for in the comments that you might have well thank you so much mr. mayor and on behalf of the planning department staff in the 60 plus citizen planners that you all have appointed to boards and commissions to advise you on planning matters we appreciate the recognition of this honor this with the honor of this resolution community planning is about making community more livable and with your leadership and support we've been able to do that we i think we do more so every year our three top priorities for this year are to engage with the community that mostly means listening but also teaching to give back to the community and to work on programs that ensure that Durham remains accessible for all towards that end we have two exciting events coming up next friday the 27th we have an event called the monster dash which is a fun run council member shul that will be held at the american tobacco trail trailhead at blackwell street at five p.m. and that's co-sponsored with the parks and recreation department and budget management services and all proceeds will go to the independent animal rescue of Durham and on the 30th of october monday one of our rare mondays off we'll have a open house at the planning department from four to six p.m. and that's an opportunity for all in the community to come meet the planners and and see what we do on a day-to-day basis and get any questions they may have answered so thanks again for your support of community planning entertaining in the comments that members of the council may have recognize councilman moffett yes sir um so uh i just want to take a moment and say as i'm sure most people know last tuesday we held a primary here in Durham for three city council in the mayor's seats and the purpose of the primary is to narrow the number of candidates for each race to two for the general election which is november seventh we had eight winners on tuesday and i want to congratulate all eight winners for the work they've done the campaigns they ran and the passion to serve each of the four races comes with one vote on city council as we all know and they are each important i hope that people will take the time to study the eight candidates and make their own decisions based on the candidate's merits when people decide to form a city they do so in order to provide services like water and sewer streets trash and recycling and public safety Durham does a great job of providing these services efficiently such a good job in fact that they are not issues doing this campaign that is a credit to this council to the council members who served in the recent past and to our administration we should not take it for granted doing the work of the city takes all of us together it's been an honor and a privilege to serve the people of Durham for these past five years and to the four people who prevail in november i wish great success for their tenure and for our beloved bull city also want to welcome the scouts tonight i got a little nostalgic i spent a lot of years in scouting um as a through the different ranks um as a patrol leader a senior patrol leader order the arrow and even eagle scout i'm still very proud that i'm an eagle scout today so welcome everybody thank you mr mayor dawn we appreciate your remarks more importantly we appreciate your service we've done a pleasure and the privilege to serve you and of course we got a few more weeks to go but right i know you worked that out as we move forward i appreciate it thank you any other comments if not we'll move with the agenda let me ask are there prior times about a city manager thank you mr mayor good evening members of council this evening i would request that the conclusion of the council meeting that council go into a brief closed session to consider the performance of an individual public officer or employee pursuant to north glen general statutes 143 318 dot 11 a eight excuse me six pardon me it's been properly moved in second madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes seven to zero that's it mr thank you recognize deputy city attorney uh just the city attorney uh the acting for now i'm fred lemar thank you mr mayor there are no priority items uh from the city attorney's office likewise recognize city clerk no items mr mayor uh we're perceived with the agenda uh first item being the consent agenda and as you know consent agenda can be approved single vote if a member of the council or member of the audience removes a consent agenda item we will discuss that item later in the agenda i'll just read the heading of each one of the consent agenda items uh on the Durham city county insurance commission appointment item three is street and infrastructure acceptances item five is the resolution granting consent to wait electric membership corporation to serve as the exclusive provider of electric services to area assigned to wake electric membership corporation by the north glennon utilities commission item six is the establishment of permit process and fees for dockless bike share operation item seven is the contract with midwest bus corporation to repel up to 25 hybrid buses item eight is the grant agreement for duke belt line trail item nine is fyi 2018 agreement with north glennon state university for support of the triangle regional model development enhancement and maintenance item 10 is the contract for reconditioning of biosolids dewatering equipment north Durham water reclamation facility item 11 is on call professional services master service agreements item 12 is west safety services telephone contract extension item 13 is the resolution authorizing city auction on october 21st 2017 item 14 is august 2017 bid report item 15 is state contract purchase for replacement vehicles for the Durham police department item 16 is corporate purchase group purchase for three fire trucks for the Durham fire department item 17 is annual use department of housing and urban development fair housing case processing grant item 18 is 2018 financial crimes task force grant project ordinance item 19 is 2018 police athletic league program grant project ordinance item 20 is the 2018 blue benevolence grant project ordinance item 21 is 2017 halloween grant project ordinance item 22 is second quarter 17 technology innovation for public safety program grant item 23 is an ordinance revision to city coach sections 70-95 70-96 70-129 item 23 is an item that can be found on the general business agenda five that's item 25 oh 25 i'm sorry it says 26 it's 26 to 28 items that can be found on the general business agenda public hearings entertaining a motion for the approval of consent agenda i recognize the council market yes sir before before i just had one question about item 23 which was revisions the city code sections giving authority to the city manager for utility extension agreements there was one change that i had requested having to do with use of property having come back to council if the use changed then it would come to council for further approval did that get included in the item yes sir that change has been made and it will also be included in each and every agreement thank you i'll move the consent agenda second it's been proper to move in second madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes 70 we move to the general business agenda uh item 25 is proposed jackson pettigrew street development update mayor bell members of city council uh reginald johnson director of the department of community development the item before you uh number 25 the proposed jackson pettigrew street development update is actually a joint item from the community development department as well as the office of economic and workforce development uh we did have extensive discussion at the work session i would call your attention to the questions that you council asked that were provided a written response to the you that were was in your included in your packet i would emphasize for tonight that the most important thing is that uh the city council provide the administration with direction uh in terms of which option we want to pursue and that is important because uh because of the time they timely nature of preparing the application and the detailed work that needs to go into that we need to have a decision tonight uh if at all possible so that we can move forward uh how we will proceed tonight uh brickel echelon miss brickel echelon from self-help will briefly share the uh how the options were developed and mr michael rogers of dh ic will provide uh some discussion on the financial aspects and then we'll prepare to answer any questions before you begin are there any questions by members of the council if not council members brickel echelon director of real estate at self-help quickly to overview just to remind the council and the members of the public where we were at at work session uh the development team is self-help ventures fund in partnership with dh ic uh very well known and renowned affordable housing developer out of raleigh and over the last three months since we received our last direction from city council in early june we've been working with a number of partners to be able to bring to you several design concepts for direction to move forward tonight and again the uh the goal here is to have your preferred development concept so that we can move forward with much more detail analysis to summarize we're bringing four concepts to you tonight and they're really broken up into two scenarios each of which have two options the first is scenario a which has two options a one and a two we viewed this as the our response to the council's request for your rfq that was released in october of last year and which self-help ventures fund and dh ic were awarded at the beginning of this year we were asked to bring a residential affordable housing component that would have some market rate units structured parking and retail and so we'll be presenting two options for that to you one of which has approximately 101 units which has 80 affordable units to individuals at 60 percent of area median income and below as well as around 21 market rate units we also have another concept that is just the affordable units themselves at 80 units we'll also bring to you two concepts under what we're calling scenario b which is both the affordable housing and market rate components as well as building out the rest of the site with what we are proposing as a class a office space three-story office building both scenario all four scenarios have structured parking either one level or two levels depending on the density of the site as well as commercial space retail space which again also grows with the build out of the full site so to walk through the four components for you the first concept is a one this is a design that the design team has been working on with client design out of Raleigh and to just draw your attention to the orange building this is the residential component in this design the building is a little larger it would be 101 units again 80 of which would be affordable lie tech here it refers to the low-income housing tax credit which is the mechanism we propose to work through this this process and having approximately 21 market rate units this design does not have office what's marked as future development is more so of an unused portion this is approximately half an acre we'd have to work through the the specific details on this but we are proposing that this if this concept went forward that would remain a vacant parcel for future use we would have to have at least one-to-one parking spaces one unit each unit would need a parking space and that would be unstructured parking underneath the residential building the residential building would also have retail on the first floor as well as a retail building that would sit up on West Chapel Hill Street closer to the existing Durham transit station the second concept is very similar it's just a smaller residential building similar structured parking similar retail space but we're proposing in this one that we would only use only have affordable units again at 60 percent of area meaning income and below but the general design of the built of the entire approximately two acre site would remain the same moving to the the second overall concept which again also has two options this is the one that the design team proposes to take up the entire site for reasons that michael rogers will talk more about we really see only approximately 80 units maybe a few more appropriate for this site and so building out the entire site with affordable housing becomes difficult under state and financing challenges so in order to fully maximize the entire site and the density of the site in our second concept we're proposing building a three-story class a office building on the southeastern portion of the site and just for reference this is at the intersection towards the north deck for american tobacco and the university ford ford property the concept here is that both buildings we'd be on top of a two-story structured parking structure also with retail space on the first floor providing great connectivity and urban design meeting udo requirements for the city and again fully building out the site here we would have approximately 54 000 square feet of office space rented at market rates and we'd be looking at closer to 260 parking spaces that we believe we would be able to fill used to fill this entire site the second concept is again the smaller residential building strictly affordable housing this is concept b2 this would allow us to have a larger office building approximately 62 000 square feet of office space that we would again rent at market rates and would allow us to to build out the site with even greater density on that that portion of the property so unless if anyone has questions on concepts otherwise i'll hand it over to michael rogers to walk through the numbers mr mayor i had a couple of quick questions um first of all thank you appreciate you laying that out and very clearly denoting the differences in the scenarios i had a question that a member of the public addressed to me over social media last week having to do with the location of the playground and is it are we required by some kind of city regulation or code to to have the edge of the building match up with the lines of the street or could we flip the location of the playground to get it on the other side of the building and the reason i ask is this resident was concerned about having the playground so close to the area of the bus terminal where buses are idling and so i wonder if you could talk a little bit about that yeah i'll answer the the piece on where it's currently located and then if if there is a member of planning who would want to speak about the the street frontage just make sure i don't misspeak um the the just so everyone is aware that plaza is actually an elevated plaza um if you think that the buildings have to be on top of two stories of podium parking and so if this points but there are there would be steps going up above the two levels of podium parking and this would actually be an elevated plaza and it would actually be an elevated playground so you still would have the overlook onto Durham transit but in terms of any sort of safety concerns i think we're looking at approximately 30 ish feet above grade um that that plaza would be elevated and so we there would be screenage around landscaping and pieces like that but it would not be an at-grade connection to the transit station i think the resident was less concerned about the uh the possibility that a child might be interact with a bus in some dangerous way but that the fumes from the idling buses would would come into the play area and was wondering why the playground couldn't be flipped to the other side to put the building in between pat young with the planning department um the part of the design intent of the downtown design district is to activate the street by having the buildings close to the street so the majority of the frontage would have to be along Jackson street but it is at least conceptually possible that um a portion of of the there could be a portion of the frontage that was set back to accommodate essentially which are suggesting flip-flopping um the location of the park or the plaza and in the building of course that may have other knock-on impacts as i think printed just described in terms of cost and feasibility but but over 60 of the frontage has to be within 15 feet of the of the right away great thank you i appreciate it um that was all i had mr. mayor thank you thank you thank you good evening mr. mayor members of council uh thank you for the time this evening for the opportunity to walk you through some of our development numbers here uh before we go through the individual scenarios just to mention a few features that apply oh i'm sorry michael roders dh ic um first of all this applies to all all of the all the scenarios in each one we've included 80 units of affordable housing bricca mentioned that that is not set in stone but that was done based on the current first draft of the north carolina housing finance agencies qualified allocation plan for how they determine the competitiveness of the tax credits so in determining that they use a ratio referred to as the credits per unit that's weighed very closely and oftentimes as was the case in 2017 is often the determining factor for which applications in a very competitive program are actually awarded tax credits so in looking at what the available tax credits were in the first draft of the qualified allocation plan we determined based on that maximum of 900 000 as a project specific max that 80 units would be the most competitive uh range of affordable units we could provide as we move forward and the housing finance agency refines that qualified allocation plan excuse me that's my story that's a question mike's i'm sorry to interrupt you no problem um just want to understand a little bit i read the memo uh the second memo y'all provided thank you i just want to make sure i understand this first of all is the 900 000 credits is that's a project specific maximum that you is that what you said yes sir and is that is that for any project is that like the most you can get yes sir okay and so the what i'm trying to understand is the is the credit per unit average and kind of how you back into that so to speak you know how do you compute that i know that there's a the other metros are all putting in what they think their their the credit per unit average is going to be as well as we are is that right that's correct and so to what extent do we know you know so it's to some extent we're just estimating we're doing our best guess that that's very uh that's very accurate and last year was the first year that they used the range to determine it instead of a lowest credits per unit so this it really was you know for all intents and purposes a black box and a guessing game of of which was going to be the average and so is the range going to be what is being used this year or is it going to be the lowest it will not be the lowest they are they are proposing a change to how that would work and so we'll be in the same predicament in 2018 that we were in 2017 of making our best effort to determine what that average is going to be can you explain me what the rational basis for that is i mean i don't understand why that's the system in other words why should there be a system where each of the metros is essentially trying to have to guess the credits per unit average i i cannot purport to explain the rationale of the north carolina housing finance agency on that okay so there do they have do they purport to explain their own rational basis or there's not a strong defense of that rationale and i think it's a continually evolving system to find what is both a transparent process and rewards the most competitive applications and so but our our your your experience and from DHIC your experience at let's just say guessing or estimating what this average the ability to come close to the average is really important for our ability to get the project done no matter which of these scenarios which is yes sir and you're you have experience at DHIC and being able to make these estimates and do them pretty well with with reasonable accuracy okay all right thank you well it was a mystery to me even if i read after i read the memo a couple times so i appreciate that it's somewhat a mystery to you too thank you it's it's a moving target if you will and just to give you an example that average credits per unit in 2016 was 7900 and in 2017 was 10900 so it's a guessing game that we're all playing and doing our best to uh with a reasonable degree of certainty what caused that variation uh part of it was the change in how that rule was done in the qap the qualified allocation plan part of it was a recognition from the housing finance agency of the rising cost of construction and the feasibility of building these projects the way that they're being represented at the application stage is there any talk of the metros getting together and saying ahead of time hey here's what our average is going to be here's what your average is going to be i mean you know isn't isn't there some rationale for that in the sense that that way the just the the decisions about the tax credit allocation will be made on other than on a basis other than who has the best guess as to what the average might end up being that would be a conceivable thing to do with the 2017 rule the proposed draft rule for 2018 i think is an attempt to circumvent that uh we have not really wrapped our heads yet around how exactly to approach that as it just was released um going forward that's something that i think everybody will look at and i would encourage uh the members of the council to contact the housing finance agency with any feedback that you have on the system i think they are always looking for comments uh from members of the public from developers from representatives of city government to help determine what is going to be the most effective system for fairly and transparently allocating these credits across the state thank you mr mayor thank you for letting me travel down that rabbit hole a little bit but uh it i appreciate your answers my very deep rabbit hole thank you very much so if i if i may um the other factors that apply to all scenarios beyond the 80 units as i said that was based on the first draft of the qualified allocation plan and we will be continually refining our development plan as the agency is closer to releasing their final tax credit allocation plan um along the same lines as we move forward with design and have more certainty as to site plans unit plans architectural treatments for the facade we are continually refining costs and we'll be able to get more and more accurate as we move forward with uh what what is going to apply and be a reasonably accurate estimation of a final costs with those uh kind of all encompassing points i'll move on to go through the nuts and bolts of concept a one concept a one is what we understood as our best representation of the specifications of the request for qualifications that was released in 2016 it includes mixed income with 80 affordable units structured parking and retail space wrapping that parking compliant with the udo standards we worked with the planning department in doing that to make sure that what we were designing both fit their standards and fit with what we understood our charge to be um i'll note in looking at this where you see retail that we are only including the costs from the retail shell we're not included full tenant upfit costs reason for this is a nuance of of affordable housing tax credits in that the traditional lenders and investors of these deals will not allow you to show income on retail space without assigned pre lease agreement so without that agreement in place we've represented only the costs that would take to build out that space with any for tenant upfit costs being done in the future to accommodate any tenants that would lease that space looking at the details of this chart and this applies to all charts going forward what we've done is laid out at the top the total sources for the residential and the total development cost for the residential which produces that first dark blue line that's our residential only gap below that we've added in yes mr. mayor i'm just because you're presenting this to us but general public is seeing it also so i think it would be helpful even takes a little time as you go through the line items and the columns to maybe give a little more detail when you talk about total sources what does that include when you talk about total development cost what does that include sir so as far as total sources go there are really two conventional sources on a affordable project the first comes from the low income housing tax credits that we've discussed those tax credits are essentially purchased by a tax credit syndicator so we get from that purchase of tax credits equity upfront to use to build the project the second that's the 900 000 excuse me that's the 900 000 on this project yes it would be the 900 000 over 10 years for a total of 9 million in credits you then apply a tax credit price to that which on this project with our current assumptions results in a little over eight million dollars in tax credit equity beyond that the other main source would be a conventional debt that would be used to build a residential project this can come in a few different forms whether it's directly from a bank or done through freddy mac fanny may or fha we've used all different manners of loan programs on these projects and as we move forward we'd be looking to see what was the best fit with the requirements and the nature of this project to deliver the best terms for the deal beyond that there are a number of soft sources that are often provided from cities counties or other grant programs that may be available and we've worked with any number of different sources and structures to really build out and cover the gap in the projects that we've worked on turning to development costs well i guess what i want to emphasize what you're showing are strictly the cost for developing the project you aren't showing the resultant rents that you will get from the affordable units and etc to make it sustainable those costs are not in here they're not represented i have i have that material but i'm saying they are not a part of the 12 million dollars do we talk about we strictly talk about the cost of developing the building okay at some point in time you're going to tell us what rents you need to sustain this project if you don't do it now i'd like to see it yes i'd be happy to provide that information i know city staff has reviewed some of that information as well so whenever convenient i'd be more than happy to provide and review that with anybody that would like to see it on the actual development costs for the project we're really looking at a wide range of costs the simplest are the site work and the actual bricks and sticks the the costs of building the project beyond that we have a number of costs the land cost is not in this number is the land cost is no it's not in there right in our assumptions the land cost was provided okay beyond beyond the actual cost of building we look at a number of different things obviously the architectural fees and engineering fees that go into building out and providing the feasibility and design services for a project like this there are also a number of financing costs that go along with the permanent mortgage and the construction financing both origination fees interest during construction and legal fees that go along with the closing and recording of those types of documents the tax credit program also carries a few costs that are based on percentages of the total eligible basis or depreciable basis and as well as percentages of the units and the total tax credit amount so a number of those change depending on the amount of tax credits that you request in this particular instance those are the same across almost all scenarios due to the nature of the similarity of these projects um below that residential only gap which is the balance of our development costs and sources we have the the costs that we consider unique to this project that you would not see as a part of a typical low-income housing tax credit project for that we're looking at the cost of building out the structured parking the plaza space that's on top of that podium and the retail shell that's wrapping it with a little bit of additional contingency that would be required by lenders and investors to provide some certainty that there were not going to be significant cost overruns on this concept a1 we're looking as i said at the retail shell and we're looking at providing parking on a one-to-one basis for all units looking at the overall numbers you'll see that this is the largest financing gap of all four scenarios we're looking at a financing gap of roughly 8.1 million or 80 thousand dollars per unit there's a large difference in the sources as you look at this and to the right of the uh of the table you'll see that there's a breakout of the affordable versus the market rate costs the the large difference in sources here is because while the market rate units support a larger share of conventional debt they are not eligible for any low-income housing tax credits so that eight plus million dollars in equity is borne entirely by the affordable units so that feeds into the gap that you see um at on those dark blue lines a significant difference between what the gap is attributable to the affordable units versus attributable to the market rate as we move down and we look beyond those costs that are unique to this project we have two lines the gap without vouchers and then the gap with vouchers as we've worked through this we've been working with the Durham Housing Authority to provide project-based vouchers a conversion of section eight vouchers for this project the in this instance there are 26 we are assuming 26 project-based vouchers the reason it's 26 is because we have those we've assumed that those are assigned to the units that would be reserved for people making 30 percent or less of the area median income we've included 25 percent and this applies to all scenarios 25 percent of all affordable units will be reserved for people making 30 percent of the area median income or less we do that for two reasons one as mission-based nonprofits we're dedicated to providing that deeper targeting and we want to have units that are affordable to those people two that's we're aiming for the to achieve the maximum scoring in the qualified allocation plan and are providing the deepest level of targeting to achieve that score can I ask yes sir it's just just a minor point but when you when I read the document you said 25 percent of the units were reserved for people making 30 percent one fourth of 80 is 20 units not 26 so what what am I missing it's it's 25 percent of the total units in the tax credit application well I thought at the total units we were talking about was 80 it's 20 25 percent of the 101 of 101 yes sir that's why on the following on a two we are assuming 20 vouchers because it's just the 80 units the 25 percent of the 101 is what we're calling 26 here so even though the additional 21 are market rate units as far as the total project is you're looking at as 101 units and you're looking at 25 percent of that number yes sir okay so what what the project based vouchers would allow us to do is to achieve a higher rental income with the tenants paying excuse me a lower and the voucher making up the difference that translates to a much much greater first mortgage on the project and on the concepts with 101 units would equate to roughly a hundred a 1.2 million dollar reduction in that gap so looking looking at our total gaps on concept a1 without the vouchers we're at 8.1 million with those vouchers you're a little over 6.9 million or around 68 and a half thousand per unit recognize councilor shill just to this question relates to something that the mayor was asking about earlier so I think of the vouchers as supporting the people's income as they're renting right yes so why is that a reduction of capital costs so that would say and I'll just use hypothetical numbers here if the Durham Housing Authority decided that the cap for a project based voucher rent was eight hundred dollars but the rent for a 30 percent area median income unit was three hundred dollars that voucher would provide the difference that five hundred dollar difference so when we underwrite the deal and apply for our tax credits and for our mortgages we'd be able to show an income from that unit of 800 even though the tenants responsibility for that would only be 300 I see so you it's because you know that you have the vouchers that changes that what you're unable to get underwritten yes sir and it's because they're project based versus tenant based okay thank you so if I could I'd move on to a2 which is essentially if you remember the site plan the same concept as a1 but with a smaller residential building without the 21 market rate units this is our second highest financial gap owing to some of the principles that we just went through the reason obviously that a2 is a smaller gap is because with a one-to-one parking ratio our parking costs are lower and the podium is a little bit smaller accordingly the retail shell that is wrapping the parking is also smaller due to the decreased podium size the same principles apply to the logic of this table say for the fact that you don't see the affordable versus market breakout to the right owing to that it's 100 affordable the total gap is reduced from a1 by about 1.75 million before those vouchers the total gap before the vouchers in a2 is 6.4 million or roughly 80 thousand per unit with 20 project based vouchers on this which would lead to about a 920 thousand dollar reduction of that gap our total gap after those vouchers is 5.5 million or roughly 68 thousand per unit can I ask a question about the sir the retail shell and the in each of the scenarios it talks about um or at least in the first couple that if you had the pre-lease of the retail shell that that would you're you're you're assuming that there would no be no pre-lease of the retail shell and hence the cost that you have of a million dollars or whatever it is for for that construction that's correct and so but you're putting it in there in a way to say that I mean the expected it would have to be fully leased to to read to recapture that and would it recapture all of that it would it would depend on what rents were agreed to in any sort of lease agreement if there was a strong lease agreement that lasted for a significant amount of time and that amount of time would have to be approved by the agency as well as any investors and lenders that were going to underwrite the deal conceivably you would be able to show some amount of income that would offset some of those costs now if we were to do that we would also carry tenant upfit costs that we do not have represented in here so I'd offhand don't have a number of what that amount of offset would be but yes theoretically there would there would be a reduction in that let me Steve had you finish yes sir uh the bottom line of this is chart and all the charts you're going to show us that you have a gap of four million whatever it is and my question is given the timeframe of construction and your overall plan for this project when would you need the gap money is this something neat right up front or something you need over a period of time what what what has that show so as as we move forward the first major deadline for the team would be the preliminary tax credit application which is due in mid-January prior to that we would like to have a tentative commitment with an up to amount so that we would be confident moving into that with a full commitment with terms full terms for how that subsidy would work prior to the may 2018 full application date let me ask it another way I think I can so beyond that if we were to receive an award we would receive that in August and we begin setting everything in place funding in from the city as subsidy would not be required until the full construction financing and equity closing that would happen probably at the beginning or early in 2019 so I guess I'm trying to determine even given that is there any ways payments could be made over a certain period of time in other words it's one thing to say you need four point five million dollars four point three million dollars from the city does the city have to come up with that in one lump sum at a certain period of time is that four million it can be stretched over five ten years or something like that it would be needed during the period of construction so that it was available at the point where the construction loan was taken out and we converted to a permanent debt okay so it's almost like a construction loan that you're talking about you would need from us okay yes sir mr mayor asked that exact same question at the work session okay because I was I was hoping for the same okay okay I love the work session but thank you go ahead well if I if I may I'll move on to b1 so concept b1 as Bricka laid out is our 101 units mixed income with retail and the smaller office building this is our third highest gap and the office piece is helpful in a number of different ways so the first and foremost I mentioned the difficulty of underwriting that retail cost that's a difficulty for low-income housing tax credit projects but it is not the same difficulty for a conventional office or commercial project like you you've bored the Boy Scouts thank you gentlemen just trying to make sure they're prepared so as I mentioned the the office would be able to absorb the cost of the the retail and in fact when we've put this scenario together as well as b2 we've also assumed those tenant up-fit costs because they're able to show that income second having the office share the site allows the office to also share in some of the costs of the transaction these can range from a number of different things looking at construction costs they can clearly share in the site costs that go into the site development the cost of constructing the working structure third party fees like geotechnical and environmental analysis as well as some other costs that apply to the deal so that that's a big help in absorbing some of the costs that in concept a are born solely by the residential it also serves as a reduction of the residential development costs by absorbing some of the other fees the total what we've looked at in that residential cost line is roughly 615,000 and then when you look below at the absorption of the retail costs that's an additional reduction of the burden on the residential of about 1.4 million so you can see that that's it's clearly a benefit in cost allocations additionally the office in the underwriting of it produces a surplus of funds you can see that in the line entitled office retail contribution in this table below gap including parking that surplus of funds could be provided as an additional subsidy or as absorption of additional costs by the office and retail use looking at the difference from our previous scenarios the total gap has decreased from scenario a1 by roughly 2.6 million the residential only gap here after the parking and transfer slab and the additional contingency is roughly 6.1 million or 60,000 per unit moving beyond that and incorporating what's been estimated as a potential contribution from the office in retail we're looking at a total gap before vouchers of about 5.6 million or 55,000 per unit and after the vouchers and in this scenario we're looking at the 26 project-based vouchers that gap further decreases to 4.4 million or around $44,000 per unit we've also taken a look at current millage rates and what an estimated value of that office in retail use would be to show that roughly 5.1 million in tax revenues would be created over 15 years the reason we used 15 years is because that's the standard compliance period for an affordable housing deal like the office retail contribution how's that calculated so the way that was calculated is putting together a development model using the office and retail rents to determine what the net operating income of that project would be and then using that to size the debt that would be payable and the equity that would be paid by the office and retail project in an ability the project would have the ability to build it with a smaller permanent loan but using the debt sizing produced by the operating income assumptions that we've made would allow it to take on a larger share of debt and use and that would create essentially a surplus of funds moving on finally to concept b2 this is the 80 unit portable only with retail and a larger office so this is our lowest overall subsidy amount the gap here has been reduced by up to 4.1 million including contribution from office and that voucher number the residential gap in this scenario is about 4.6 million or 57 000 per unit looking at without vouchers we're down to about 3.7 million or 47 000 per unit and the total gap assuming 20 profit vouchers here is roughly 2.8 million or 35 000 per unit and looking at the total tax value over 15 years that's estimated to be around 5.7 million obviously the reason that this is different not only is the a deletion of the market rate units and the cost burden that comes with them but by having a larger office building we're able to further shift the the cost allocations that go with some of the parking assumptions as well as providing a larger contribution from that office and retail due to additional income being produced by it so understandably that's quite a lot of information digest but i'd like to you know make myself available or anybody else on the team available go through any questions well let me sort of lead it off I think we are in a much better position today with these proposals than what we started with and I appreciate the council and administration and you guys being supportive of taking a second look at it because I think we have much much better options when I came into this I probably was one of the strongest advocates for mixed income and I still am but I'm also a realist also in terms of what was doable and where the funding comes from and I guess what has persuaded me in terms of looking at well let me tell you why I'm talking about the I guess it's B2 80 low income house credits no 80 low income house tax credits trust retail plus the office that's that's the piece I'm speaking to in terms of not being even have market rate units in this development it's apparent that the cost is extremely high in terms of the benefits that we get out of it the other piece that I guess I'm looking at is when I look at how we define affordable units in terms of income 60 percent 30 percent and etc it appears to me that if we talk about 60 units you're up at the family income of 30 40 plus thousand dollars depending on what size your family which to me could appeal to some of the office workers teachers and etc and in our workforce it would have an opportunity when I look at 80 units you're talking about 20 of those units 25 percent of those units at 30 percent or whatever and the rest are up at the higher higher higher income which to me approaches the market rate piece additionally I think for me we've always got a bill for the future and I've always felt that we ought to try to get the most out of that property that we can in terms of not only an opportunity for affordable housing but what else can come along with it and by bringing in you had retail initial but by bringing in office units I think I think we get that and I would say that for persons who are talking about not invested in downtown anymore this is an investment in downtown it's a different type of investment but it's an investment in downtown which I continue to support so I end up with the scenario which gives us 80 low income housing tax credits the retail space and the maximum office space and the gap obviously is the lowest gap that we've got in terms of the scenarios you've got and how we get that feel that gap that's up to the council administration to figure out but that's that's where I'm on the side right sir and I recognize councilman Reese and councilman Schultz thank you mr. mayor I appreciated your words for the staff and our non-profit developer partners for bringing these scenarios forward I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that I don't think they would have come forward with these scenarios without your leadership and putting that on the table is something that you wanted to see and I think the result of that has been we've got a scenario in concept B2 that I think really does tend to maximize the what all the different things we can do with this oddly shaped piece of property in a way that I think will really benefit the city and I think I just wanted to acknowledge that I had a question about parking and you might not be the right person to talk about parking so let me ask you my other question first and that is this during the meeting just now we got a I got a message from someone who is watching this particular meeting and I'm not clear if they're in the room or online but what it doesn't matter and the the question had to do with uncertainty and you've talked compellingly about the uncertainty of renting the market rate apartment units the stronger certainty about the affordable units especially those with vouchers associated with them but you've talked a little bit less about uncertainty around the retail and the office space can you talk a little bit about kind of your perspective on that and whether how it affects the various scenarios we're facing here yeah I might let Tucker Bartlett from self-help field those questions thank you good evening council Tucker Bartlett with self-help uh yeah that's it's a great question councilman Reese we uh if when we make if we make it through tonight and we have a direction that the council gives us one of the first things we start doing and working on is trying to locate office so we have not started that process yet until we knew if we were doing an office component or not to it and the key really would be so uh Michael went through the process before and really it's it's the main deadline the full application where you have to have your financing packages together so the key for us will be identifying you know a and I'm you know you usually when you go to financing they want to see a certain amount of pre-leasing depending on market strength so the the banks will be looking at it saying okay downtown Durham what's going on with the office market how much of it would we'd like to see pre-leased so we'll have to determine in conjunction with our financing sources debt equity what amount of pre-leasing we'll need but we will need some pre-leasing so that is a question going forward and one you know a thing we'll be working on diligently starting tomorrow and this is obviously something that you guys have some experience working on correct tenants and properties yeah self-help as a developer I think many of you are familiar with our office buildings downtown but we have about 25 properties across the state about 1.3 million square feet and that is primarily office space in retail on ground floor sort of the typical thing that we do so we do have a lot of experience in working these types of projects thanks Tucker I appreciate you addressing that concern who's the best person to talk to me about parking it might be me what's the question awesome let's do it I noticed that in by the way that person is in the back row here you want to raise your hand thank you for that question appreciate it I noticed that in concept B1 and in B2 those are the only renderings that specifically identified I know they're not the only ones in A1 and A2 at least one-to-one parking spaces were identified as needed for the project so I'm guessing in A1 that was 101 and in A2 that's 80 or their bounce am I right so far yes on the residential side awesome because in A1 and A2 that's all the residential right awesome I'm glad I when I figure stuff out B1 and B2 I noticed didn't have a difference they both they were both pegged at 260 parking spaces right and is that because in the concept B1 the office space is smaller but there are more residential units and in B2 there are fewer residential units but the office space is slightly larger am I on the right track there yeah in both of the B scenarios you basically have a two-story we have a two-story parking deck and there's a certain number of spaces in there estimated to be 260 so if the residential is fixed at one per one you basically have whatever is left over to do office so the the reason that lets you build the office bigger it lets you build the off that's what so the office the size of the office is dictated by the number of parking spaces oh you guys are smart man can you eventually I will get there so what is the what is the calculation on office square is there a mathematical formula square foot to spaces yeah there there is so you'll hear different office users required different amounts of parking and as you know we're in the CBD so there's no government required amount of parking that we're we're providing this is really all market driven and there's not you know public decks around so we're trying to provide parking at an adequate rate and so you know you'll hear numbers thrown around about how many parking spaces per thousand square feet of office and what we're assuming for this one is approximately three per thousand which is honestly pretty light for often you'll hear people talk often about four per thousand but leases being signed downtown by some of the major downtown office users these days are around three per thousand with the understanding at a site like this that's right next to the transit center some people will take alternative forms of transportation or they'll lease spaces and other public decks and walk and walk there so yeah so there'll be a combination of there'll probably some workers coming to this site that will not drive a car and park it at this deck that's what the market is requiring these days is three per thousand downtown believe it or not my last question was why the office building was bigger b2 so now i'm i'm sad thanks recognize count yes i'm let me go recognize the mayor pro tem and then councilman shill and then councilman marford you talker i have a question about the i certainly uh i'm supportive of the affordable housing space but i'm also concerned that we need to have affordable retail as you know there has been an exodus of black owned businesses from the downtown area right and what do we need to do to increase the likelihood of black businesses coming back and being a part of this space yes i think that is a a great question and an important issue to highlight and one that self-help is looking at across its portfolio of buildings of trying to convert some of you know more retail space and try to get it as affordable as possible for locally owned businesses to be able to locate there so the reality of of of new construction is new construction costs more than converting some of our older spaces downtown to retail so the the assumptions that we used in this model um for the numbers that you're seeing today assume 20 per square foot for retail space i would call that more affordable than some of the other new construction that's happening but maybe slightly less affordable than being able to convert an existing retail space downtown and just bringing a new tenant in so if we just you know if the council decided that another one of the public policy benefits it wanted was lower retail rent that could be something we could we could talk about it would just increase the gap we're happy to run sensitivity scenarios about different office i'd say where we are now is below market if you if you consider the market you know some of the new construction around downtown and what they're leasing retail space for we're we're below that but we're above i'd say what self-help could lease space if you think of some of our retail tenants uh on you know on the plaza uh we're able to do less than that in our existing buildings so it depends on what where we're trying to get i agree that's an important issue or perhaps council will be open to providing some sort of incentive uh to businesses to do it that way too yeah recognize councilman shul thank you mr mayor i just uh first of all i want to second what charlie mentioned earlier about the your role in this mr mayor and i'd uh at least refer to it a little bit in the work session which i think that we are on a much better path than we were uh thanks to your intervention and getting people back together and suggesting that we take a broader look at this so thank you for that i think that really is really really helped us uh i also uh want to uh endorse uh concept b2 for all the reasons that the mayor uh said i think that the the um we don't want to concentrate poverty but i don't think that's what we're doing here uh with the the memo i think did a good job of laying out what the uh Durham housing authority um average income was i believe less than $13,000 per house home and we're certainly not talking about that the situation we're talking about a much wider mix of incomes and um and so i think that i think this will work uh and i think that having the office building is just a tremendous addition uh this is this is a really good proposal and i want to thank the staff reginald and company for working to get this get these scenarios together and uh this helping the forward this much more kind of flexible way of looking at it and uh all of you all who've worked on it i think it's a great proposal i'm looking forward to it and if we can figure out the qap maybe we can get the tax credits so thank you recognize comes from marvin thank you mr mayor i am i miss some things i want to be sure you're favoring b2 yes mr mayor okay thank you um so then i'll just i have two questions then because i want everything to be on the table what's the appraised value of the land 2.8 and what's the value that's included in the project cost for the land yes zero thank you thank you mr mayor are there other recognize councilman johnson thank you mr mayor um i just wanted to reiterate the thanks that my colleagues have already expressed for our mayor our staff and our consultants on this project and um i think i'm i think that we would not be doing this without the foresight and leadership of all of the people who have come together um to make this to make this project happen i'm really excited about us making this significant invest investment in affordable housing especially in downtown where we have seen you know the market has not been able to create affordable housing the only way that it's going to happen is if is if we step in i also want to thank the community advocates and residents who have been advocating for affordable housing in our community for a number of years and really pushing us on council to be accountable to the community and to um and to put projects on the ground to put our money where our mouths are and actually produce the produce the the things that our community needs and right now we know that what our community needs um is is affordable places to live um and i also wanted to say that this um development is really close to my house it's in my neighborhood also talk to your neighborhood um and i think that it's really going to um it's really going to improve the circumstances for folks who live where we live um we regularly see emails going across our neighborhood listeners are folks looking for housing um that really want you know to live near downtown and can't afford it and so i'm really excited that um that we're going to be putting this on the ground and and that i'll have some some new neighbors thank you thank you we're going to ask councilman i'm sorry i do want to make a couple of the comments i do try to oftentimes hold my comments but i do on this case i do want to say that um it was i when we heard this is the work session i favored b2 but i didn't want to take a public stand at that time because i wanted to hear the comments of the rest of my colleagues particularly mr. mayor so i'm delighted that we're all on the same page because it looks like we are i want to thank self-help and all the partners that are involved in this because i think the creative approach to this with the retail not just the creative combination of retail office and i mean some of that is part of the rfp and some of it is dictated by the udo but the way that it's all put together and the way that it all knits together as a as a complete whole is really great and finally i also want to thank derm can i think um the can deserves a lot of credit because i really pushed um for this project uh and um so i i don't want it to go and said that community advocates specific community advocates like derm can have stood up and made a difference here so thank you well i appreciate that don and uh members of can were part of this new focus so as you know all i approach the idea i did spend time with them trying to explain what what we're trying to do and be something at least it was supportive of but i haven't said that are there any more comments on this item i think the staff is looking for some direction um it i'll make a yes i offer uh that we uh move for concept b2 as the preferred design as a preferred design i'll second that it's been probably moved to the second madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes seven to zero thank you so we can get my tablet back up again what's the next sign 28 consolidated item for r.a commercial item 28 26 so it's going to be 26 a six jacob good evening i'm jacob wiggins with the planning department um requests for a future land use map amendment and zoning map change have been received for a 27 acre parcel located at 4343 gara road on the subject site is currently designated as medium density residential on the future land use map and as residential role on the zoning alice um the applicant is requesting to change these designations to commercial on the future land use map and to commercial general the development plan on the zoning map the associated development plan with this request commits to a maximum of 200 000 square feet of floor space for self storage um some key commitments shown on the associated development plan include um points of access to the site uh number we are 26 my apologies i'm sorry what i thought you were trying to trick us there jake did i read that yeah all right let me try that again thank you draw that map um jacob wiggins with the planning department so this is a future land use map and and zoning map change request um for property located at 7130 north carolina highway 751 i mean i would also like to state for the record that this item as well as the other two planning items this evening have been noticed in accordance with state law and applicable ordinances um for this particular request um the site is currently designated as office on the future land use map and is zoned um office and institutional with a development plan and residential suburban 20 the applicant is requesting to change these designations to commercial on the future land use map and commercial general with a development plan on the zoning atlas the applicant is committing to a maximum of 30 000 square feet of floor area for commercial uses um the associated development plan includes commitments such as the building and parking envelope project boundary buffers and right-of-way dedication along in c 751 i'm on july 11th the planning commission heard both of these requests and recommended approval unanimously by vote of 12 to 0 there'll be two votes to approve this item the first is a motion to adopt a resolution regarding the comprehensive plan amendment and also to adopt a consistency statement the second motion is to adopt a zoning ordinance um staff finds that these two items are consistent with the comprehensive plan applicable policies and ordinances and i'm happy to answer any questions that the council may have uh this is the public hearing the public hearing is open i would ask for the questions first by one of the council i recognize councilman schul thank you mr mayor jacoob there were recommendations of uh in the tia are they committed to in this rezoning request there are tia commitments on the development plan for this were there were there were there commitments did they were there ones that did they cover all of the tia recommendations in this study sure yes uh bill judge transportation the applicant is proffering all the roadway recommended roadway improvements from the tia okay thank you very much other questions council um we have um one person to sign up to speak for the site him tim cybers cybers cybers i guess is there anyone else that wants to speak on this item who has a sign up i'm not here for three minutes thank you sir tim cybers uh yes he's cybers i appreciate that whore vat associates 16 consultant place stern north carolina uh thank you jaco for the uh for the report um i'll just briefly go over a few items tonight uh we did hold a neighborhood meeting for this project um unfortunately only the the property owners came out to the site there were no neighbors that reached out to me no neighbors attended the meeting as well i did check with uh staff today and as of this morning there were no uh no negative feedback from any of the jason property owners the parcel is a total of three parcels totaling 2.7 acres the site's comprised of one vacant commercial parcel and two single family residential parcels the vacant the vacant commercial parcel was rezoned in 2003 and a site plan was approved in 2009 for a 10 000 square foot office space that was never constructed due to the economy at that time the request in front of you tonight is to change commercial change office to commercial land use and rezone the parcel to general commercial the uh the proposed commercial land use is consistent with the adjacent land use patterns in the area it's consistent with policy 2.2 2.2 2.3 1 a 2 3 1 e by extending the existing commercial node promotes orderly develop development and provides vehicular and pedestrian connections to the existing commercial center policy 2 3 1 d does state the office can be used as a transition but this parcel is better served as a commercial site for the reasons i've mentioned and in addition standalone office is currently minimal demand for a parcel of this size as stated in the staff report this proposal is not out of character for the area the proposal also includes to rezone the parcel from oid and rs 20 to cg committing to right away dedication road improvements 30 000 square foot maximum building area 70 maximum impervious area as well as an interconnection to the existing shopping center and building design commitments i'm available if you have any questions thank you the plan is to construct storage space on this property i'm sorry sorry can you repeat that it's it's i'm sorry i should ask you is the plan to construct storage space on this on this property no that is not the current plan sir 30 000 square feet uh there's been a lot of self storage brought in front of this board in the past majority of those are in the 100 000 square feet and above 30 000 square feet is very small for self storage and if if necessary to to prove that sir i'm willing to commit that we will not permit self storage on this on the site i have no problem proffering that if that is it helps i'd like to see that you will be prompted that consider it on sir yes sir mr mayor i'll just point out that directly adjacent to these properties to the whatever direction that is north that's not north that's east is a large self storage base that's currently under construction so i'd but thank you for asking that question thank you are there other questions or comments on this item just briefly mr mayor brooknads council mary's these are i haven't closed the public hearing so i'm still on awesome thank you i just wanted to briefly mention that i drive past this location most days it's very close to my home and the persistence of these small residential properties has always been a little odd to me it seems very out of keeping with the way that the particular area has developed over time i know there are apartments to the south on both sides of 751 apartment apartments but i think that given the how successful this particular commercial area has been that's just to the north and east of this proposed rezoning i think the the proposed zoning is appropriate and i intend to vote for the matter thank you mr mayor thank you any other comments before i close the public hearing all right is there anyone else that wants to speak on this item that has not had an opportunity to speak either for or against if not let the record reflect and no one else asked to speak i would have carried pub can be closed as a matter of fact for the council mr mayor so shall we vote in here who did who made the motion who made the motion i don't know i like to i'll move it it was there second i recognize council marford for comments i have just some concern about um commercial node creep but given the apartment complex to the south in this particular case i think that that's probably limited so i'll support the motion but i just think that's a concern council needs to keep in mind all right uh there are no further questions called question madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes seven zero leave the consistency statement it's been probably moved in second madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes seven zero thank you next item is item 27 consolidated item for ample storage sand and create a 16 000 014 z 16 000 030 thank you jake if we could it's the planning apartment so this case is for a 27 acre parcel located at 43 43 garret road this site is currently designated as medium density residential on the future land use map and as residential royal on the zoning atlas the applicant for this property is requesting to change these destinations to commercial and commercial general with a development plan respectively the development plan commits to a maximum of 200 000 square feet a floor area for self-storage purposes some other key commitments noted on the associated development plan include the side access points the building a parking envelope right away dedication as well as preservation of environmental features the planning commission heard this item at their august eighth hearing and recommended approval by a vote of 11 to 0 there would be two motions required for this item the first regarding the resolution for the comprehensive plan amendment as well as a consistency statement the second motion is to adopt a zoning ordinance and staff finds that these requests are consistent with the company's plan and i'm happy to answer any questions that the council may have thank you this is the public hearing the public hearing is open to her to staff report i would ask for the questions first by members of the council uh here and non-recognize patrick biker as one who signed up as a proponent before you speak pat is anyone else who wants to speak on the side uh if not uh you have three minutes yes sir good evening mayor bell mayor pro tem colin fad members of the city council my name is patrick biker i'm with morning star law group i live at 2614 stewart drive along with mr terry weddington of ample storage we represent the applicant for this project and we very much appreciate the staff's presentation and recommendation by way of introduction ample storage has been offering quality storage solutions in durham and across the triangle for many years i would be remiss if i did not brag on ample storage a little bit since their current facility on gear road has been there for almost 20 years and it is in pristine practically brand new condition today which is a testament to how well ample operates their facilities this project before you tonight essentially will be an extension of ample's existing facility on gear road with the growth our city is experiencing there has been a steady increase in the demand for self storage ample's existing facility is consistently rented out at more than 90 percent of its capacity similar to ample's other locations in durham there are plenty of existing neighborhoods near this location with families that will continue to have increasing storage needs there are many benefits to ample's development plan that is before you tonight self storage is one of the least traffic producing use as there is you're probably familiar with the traffic conditions in this area daily traffic volumes on gear road are around 12 000 and the capacity of this three lane section on gear it is 16 000 cars per day accordingly this proposal preserves that traffic capacity for future development or redevelopment along gear road since this project will not result in any appreciable increase in traffic you also probably notice that approximately half of the site acreage on this development plan is preserved generally speaking the area closest to the stream which runs through the property will be left undisturbed this feature the development plan further demonstrates why self storage makes sense is its location it is doubtful there are many uses that could be established here with this level of preservation and that will benefit in preserving the natural features that exist on this parcel finally I want to touch on the text commitments that relate to transit you will notice that text commitment number two is a proffer to dedicate right of way for the future light rail as you know these plans are not set in concrete which made proffering this commitment very difficult also if it is determined by go Durham and go triangle that additional bus stop is needed along this corridor ample has offered to provide that on its property not even 1000 feet north of this site on the same side of gear road live stop 5570 known as gear road at ample storage stop nothing in the udo nor the comprehensive plan would require ample to dedicate yet another bus stop in such close proximity but ample is willing to work with the city to improve our transit options based on all these advantages the planning commission recommended approval unanimously for all these reasons we respectfully ask for your approval and we'll be happy to try and answer any answer any questions you may have thank you thank you other pardon my other questions of the developer on this item let me this makes some comments and the comments are relative to the amount of storage that we build in this in this community and where it's been concentrated and I'm sort of torn on this because I do know the reputation that ample has I know the facility that they've constructed on carrot road which if you didn't know any better you might not know it was a storage facility so I don't have any question in terms of what they're capable and I should also say I know what they built in the industrial park UDI has and they didn't do a good job on UDI's they did on carrot road but that's another point but having said that I wonder if has any thought been given by the planning staff in terms of where we are and building storage units a lot of storage units to be built in the community and in particular areas mr. mayor pat young with the planning department a number of communities have begun to look at this issue in detail with particular concern about the fact that relative to other commercial or light industrial uses this type of use does not have a high amount of permanent employment associated with it is relatively low on tax value relative to other commercial and light industrial uses so what a lot some of our peer communities have done is put in separation requirements similar to what we have for group homes have required that the first floor uses be some other non-residential use to help activate the street and to reduce the impacts on character of the neighborhood so that's a long-winded way of saying we are looking and evaluating a potential options to bring to you all first we'll go to the joint city county planning committee in December with kind of a white paper that looks at what some of our peer cities have done and allow you all to consider that further but we certainly are going to look at it and bring you all some options at this time however there is not anything that speaks directly to this in the conference of plan okay i asked the developer questions are you just give me a sense as to what type of proposal are you very similar to what's on gear road right now that that level of building height it would be in my comments i said it's an extension of the existing facility on gear road that's exactly what it is mayor bell same building heights same appearance same everything really is what's already there so relatively low buildings and again you all know gear road well it's it's important i think to put this this type of use at this location because it's a very low traffic generator relative to other uses there in gear road so it's really an extension of what's been there for almost 20 years in terms of it won't be one of the higher higher multi-story multi-story is that somehow built into any of these comments that you have here in terms of where's the section on when you speak about the type of material and height and all that stuff is that in here which what's what's take it begins with the plane department um attachment seven we'll talk about the by summary of the commitments the plans do not currently have a commitment for maximum height can can you all speak to that come in the mic yeah except for the architectural feature at the entryway that'd be about 22 feet everything would be below that mayor so really you're looking at structures that'd be only about 20 feet in height is there any way you can reference not to exceed what you have already existing um not to exceed what's already there can can you speak to the planning yes certainly uh we can word Smith with the plane department tomorrow morning that we won't have any buildings that exist at exceed the existing building heights on Garrett road and what about I think what's attractive about what you have is the landscaping along along Garrett road do you speak to any of that in here no we can accept that proffer I'm sorry was there that's what I'm trying to get to you know we can accept that proffer what proffer that that there would uh building height would not exceed any of the existing buildings at the adjacent site I'm sorry I'm landscaping what about the landscaping I mean I think you've got a pretty good idea of what you're going to build I'm trying yeah it's very similar okay I mean that would be very similar to the ordinance requirements that are in place currently at that location just want to make sure that when I'm working with director young in the morning that we don't we're just making sure that we don't exceed anything that's already there on Garrett road right got it what about the landscaping um we could figure that out I mean obviously we'd meet the UDO requirements I I'm not sure that what's already there goes above and beyond that but in regards to street trees and landscaping that that's already a pretty strong requirement the UDO given that's a CG zone what what are you saying yeah I I not directly familiar with what's out there it's been as the applicant indicated it's been out there for quite a while so a lot of that vegetation is mature I think it would be unlikely to be planted at that level of the size but but in terms of the design um we can work with the applicant to identify equivalent landscaping to the adjacent site but I do believe that's very similar to what the current minimum ordinance standards are and I guess another feature that I think is attractive and could you introduce yourself please area webbington I work for ample storage the difference in this site in the existing Garrett road site the parking existing parking that's on this site is up closer to the road so we would not be able to maintain the same type of landscaping that we have at the existing Garrett road we will put nice landscaping across the front but the difference parking lot is up in front of the road that's already there it's an existing parking facility so we can landscape you have you have a lot of brick on your existing facility do you plan to continue that the brick is all the way across the front and everything will be brick so you plan to continue that then yes sir sorry I don't hear well yes sir all right this is the plan of stuff picking this up I'm not trying to design it but I know it's there and yeah just brick facade along it's a brick facade across the front years yeah we can work with the planning staff to make sure it's it's essentially a brick facade across the street frontage similar to what's there now so mr. mayor another feature of the adjacent site that the current ample storage site which is not required by the ordinance is that there's a rot iron fence with brick columns and that that's not an ordinance requirement so I'm just that's a just a point of information but if they want to put that in committed they couldn't do that right they they could that's why I haven't heard that it would be impossible to do the brick fencing light you cannot at the existing right because the parking is all because of parking right you can't put that fence in across that existing parking lot you can do it on both sides of it but you can't do it across that parking lot on what was the golf driving range office yeah if you remember that okay well again the positive is I know what you can do and what you have done and those types of sales and I would not want you to do anything any less than you already have existing if in fact it's going to be built and I just like some kind of assurance is that that will happen and Patrick you because you won't become before me too much longer but if you are committed to it I think that's important for this council to know the future councils and I sure recognize councilman shoe thank you mr. mayor um so this is Patrick I'm now going to be a kind of row of self-storage out here um and you know the the planning staff has spoken to the fact that this will not be I guess the current parlance is activating the the uh street uh street front um and I just want to say that this concerns me a lot I'm glad to hear Patrick that you all are looking at at this when would we hear from you all in terms of you said a white paper will be coming to I guess JCCPC in in December so it would be January February it'll be say again if we get direct adequate direction from joint city county planning committee it would be early next year that you could bring to us yes okay um so I I'm interested in in hearing from the developer Patrick either you or the representative here example building storage facilities that have you know in other places that have retail involved or you know other kind of other kinds of facilities such as Patrick not to my knowledge so well wait a minute let's you have a certain level of retail and you have a certain level of retail out in the u d i part oh sure but that's associated with the storage it wouldn't be independent of that I meant that's what I meant oh I'm sorry I meant associated with the storage right right you do you do that I think my question is do you have retail associated with storage you know say on the first floor of your storage or on the frontage of your storage in other places that's my question so for some boxes and things we do have some some we're talking about it and silver uses at storage business like selling boxes or separate commercial entities separate commercial entities will not be at this sale do you do it anywhere we do have them at some facilities but they were designed for that I understand so that's something do you do that currently I'm what I'm trying to get at is you know what is the future here of you know so you know Patrick you're here and what Pat Young is saying it depends on the location that you go in some facilities do warrant some and I wouldn't call it so much retail as I would I guess it could it could be retail you could consider retail it's other business type normally it's service business for example in UDIS part they have some office space they have an insurance agent there they might have a I don't know if you got a Uber service there I see a lot of limousines out there they have they are they're on the same property and they aren't attached to the storage facility but they're sort of set off they've done good taste I'm not knocking it but that's they do have that so would that work here well that's an interesting question because when you're looking at Garrett Road as I referenced in my comments you've got a road that's at 12,000 cars per day with a capacity of 16,000 cars per day and there's certainly other opportunities for redevelopment along the Garrett Road corridor so it would to a certain extent be robbing Peter to pay Paul if we use that type if we incorporated those types of services it would by by necessity increase the traffic numbers that are reflected in your staff report but there again that would diminish capacity for existing redevelopment existing redevelopment opportunities on Garrett Road that I think are going to be looked at in the I would assume be looked at in the months and years ahead we do already operate what you would call retail facilities at the Gold Center which is just on the other side of the there is a strip center very in front of that that we operate so the okay well and all right did you all have any other storage facilities planned to bring to Durham in the near future other storage facilities in Durham oh yeah besides 55 that you're planning no no we don't see it we have the one on 55 that council approved unanimously is underway is going forward but other than this one no we have nothing else in the pipeline but we want to be clear that we are also building one on highway 55 that's council approved six months ago maybe yeah okay well so you know I'm reluctant especially given the fact that we have this new you know potential policy coming to us which I think it could really improve what we're getting with these facilities you know especially in a location like this Garrett Road which as you said Patrick is you know really ripe for development and we want it to be a street where they're you know an attractive you know activated street and so I have I have concerns about it I do want do want to reiterate for the council that my understanding is city ncdot is moving forward with great separation of your road in 15501 so just keep in mind there is certainly going to be a large uh trapping improvement happening there at least that's my understanding from the folks at DOT yeah so this is not going to be a what you might call a pedestrian oriented area thank you other staff has some comments mr. mayor of my yeah I would ask the applicant to repeat the additional commitments and and as a point of information before you all do that the existing site that you refer to on Garrett Road the ample storage site has got a quantity of shrubs and hedges that exceed the ordinance minimums and it also has a wrought iron fence with with brick columns none none of that is required by ordinance standards the applicant referred to the fact that the subject site in front of you is a former driving golf driving range there is a parking lot there but it's my professional opinion that if there's not additional right of way dedicated at that location that could be that appears that it could be fit the shrub the shrubs and hedges and fence could be fit in between the parking lot in the right of way I can't say that for sure without a survey or some other assessment of site conditions that's just information and then I would need to get a clarification on the commitment from you please certainly also any other questions from the council no I'd like you to respond to that yes thank you certainly as additional commitments we will not exceed the the proposal for the council tonight will not exceed the building existing and the adjacent ample storage facility located to the north obviously with the we have to make sure that the entry feature that I refer to fits with that but I believe it does secondly the landscaping that mr. Young referred to we will match the existing landscaping that's to the facility that's existing on the facility to the north and the last commitment that I understood that was desired mayor bell is a brick facade along Garrett road for the yeah brick facade along Garrett road right well I'm comfortable with that and again primarily because I I know what the developers capable of doing what they have done in this community yes sir and I was saying the fact that I still have some issues with so many storage facilities recognize councilman marvin yeah one of the things that young mentioned that you did not was fencing is there any intention to fence this facility behind the parking lot it's it's built in what we refer to as a fortress style the buildings on the interior are built around the outside there will be fencing between those buildings and what kind of fencing do you anticipate having between those buildings we'll have areas like around the detention pond in the back of the facility that aren't visible from the street they would be with some sort of hurricane fence when I I assumed that if I rent a unit here I'm going to access that unit off of Garrett road correct and then when I drive onto the property in order to secure it I'm going to have to drive through a gate correct that will be visible from Garrett road and what do you anticipate that fencing to be though the gate itself is a decorative it's made of aluminum but it's a one inch square tubing black rail top rail bottom rail and it has an ornamental fitting at the top of each of the the pickets so all of the fencing between the buildings and gate visible from Garrett road that or on closest to Garrett road will be this one inch tubing it would be the gate only the rest of it would be brick brick yes sir okay all right the gate is the only the only barrier that could it might be visible through and it's very obscure right so the so I have a I have a concern that's been raised raised first by the mayor and then also brought up by councilmember shul which is that the flip side to the not using any of the capacity of the road is it's not adding anything to the to the to activating the road to bringing I'm bringing life to it to bringing activity to the road and no very few jobs and you know actually very few very it's sorry it's hard for me to really picture in my mind what's how this makes the rest of that area more appealing for commercial development one thing that the storage business does bring where it may not bring a retail space like he mentioned before there's a tremendous amount of startup business that operates out of a storage unit itself landscaping companies any startup company that can't maybe can't afford a brick and mortar store front a lot of them get their start at a high security upscale facility like we provide we have special gate hours for commercial tenants and some of our facilities have as much as 30% commercial tenants they don't have commerce out the front of their unit they'll come there and pick up your equipment at the beginning of the day go out and do their day's work and come back in that facility and safely store their equipment and or materials so it's it does have a certain commercial value to the community I thank you I do think that the issues have been raised really important I'm glad to hear that the staff is proceeding with a study on concentration of a self storage units what might be reasonable and I hope that the new council takes that up this will be the project that inspired additional at least additional look at that I truthfully I accept that ample will do a professional job of designing and building landscaping and fencing but I'm still struggling with the concentration of of storage in this area so I'm I'm I'm still at this moment contemplating how I'm going to vote on this thank you recognize councilman Davis thank you miss ma'am I'm also towing with this I wrote down Garrett road today and I also looked at the last attached here and it looks like there are plenty of storage spaces available however I am moved by the idea that according to mr young there will be a study made to see about the proliferation of these types of units along the way with that said I think you've met all of the requesting qualifications along the way and looks like the planning commission supported it so I'd be supportive of this particular please but looking forward to where we will go down a few under looking forward how the council will go down the road thank you mr ma'am well recognize councilman Reese share what appears to be a universal concern about how these storage facilities are appear to be concentrated in the southwestern part of our city where I happen to live I also I'm a little bit disconcerted by the fact that the that this would more than double the existing ample storage at that location is that right phases one two and three total somewhere around 150 or 60 000 square feet this would be about 200 000 square feet so I share all the concerns that my colleagues have raised and the project does give me pause for that reason having said that I did want to bring into the conversation some of the comments at the planning commission by a commissioner Tom Miller who identified an additional consideration that hasn't mentioned tonight and that is that of all the uses that this particular piece of property could be put to this is likely the least intense from an ecological perspective there is a waterway that runs near the back of this particular property 200 000 square feet of storage space is a pretty thin usage for the portion of the property that the applicant has committed to building upon and that still leaves the a significant portion of it as not impacted directly by the development I think you know in a perfect world I think each of us could sit here and try to consider a better use for it but none that has this little impact on the on the water course that runs through the property and has less of an environmental and ecological impact I'll be honest with you I find myself in the same situation as my colleague Don Moffat I really don't know which way I'm going to go on this yet so but I just wanted to put that bring that into the room as something I thought that our planning commissioner adequately described for us as a consideration as well thank you mr. mayor welcome recognize councilman johnson thank you and the mayor pro tem johnson thank you mr. mayor I wanted to ask you a couple questions about walkability of the area my usually when we're talking about wanting folks to activate a street so that people can walk around my impression of this area is that it's not particularly walkable but I have just recently learned that there is a sidewalk that runs right in front of your building but looking at a map it looks like it doesn't go very far in other direction in either direction do y'all have a sense of like how whether that sidewalk is actually being actively used to access the the commercial like commercial establishments on Garrett road to access do people use the sidewalk do people use that sidewalk like is that is there pedestrian traffic in front of existing some there I've made several trips out there working towards this and there is some pedestrian traffic can I can I offer a little intelligence yeah until this fall this was the route that I took our girls to school every morning so I would often travel I would see lots of folks I think where you get the most sidewalk traffic is between the apartment complex on the north near the northwestern corner of Garrett and 15501 and walking from there down south on 751 I'm sorry on Garrett excuse me toward the bus stop that's very close to there and you also see some foot traffic over to the to the I forget what store that is there's a discount it's like a like a goodwill but not really goodwill can't remember what that's called but there is a goodwill is that it's the goodwill okay goodwill and and so you do see some traffic through there as well but I've never seen anyone trying to cross the street to get to that little mini commercial area that's right across the street I think there's it's right in front of the phase one of the self-storage and there's like a uniform store and I don't even know what else is in there a couple of stores I've never seen anyone walk over there to get as far as moving south on Garrett from there there's only like the pet store the pet shop where they do the pet care and grooming and whatnot I've probably talked more than you need I'm done thank you no that was yeah that was super helpful I mean I I share what appears to be a universal uncertainty about this project I feel like there are yeah I mean I share a concern that we are packing a lot of self-storage into this area I also think that the ecological concerns are important and that I'm not sure if if we're going to prioritize activating streets I'm not sure this is a street that necessarily warrants more attention given the low amount of pedestrian traffic in the existing land use pattern which is very which looks to me significantly suburban car oriented development that I don't think is going to shift but yeah I feel like a lot of us don't really know where to land on this so I'm not really sure I'm not sure where to go with that maybe maybe someone could offer a suggestion I'm going to recognize the mayor pro tem so she was next now well you'd be offering space for small businesses in this location we like I said we already have them at the existing yeah I know there's just there's a strip there across the road frontage here it would just be storage units but it would it does lend itself to startup businesses there's a tremendous amount of small commercial people trying to get trying to get up off the ground so this is in essence more economical for them that's correct well you have my kind of call it to borrow a phrase and it's a good place for somebody to get get started yeah I've noticed in areas throughout the city that our businesses are able to house equipment there that they can't take to their neighborhoods and so that's a good thing and they know it it will be safe okay thank you well again I I too read the planning commission report and Tom wrote a rather extensive justification for why you supported it now a standard fact that whole planning commission supported it my concerns were along the lines that I just talked about more the aesthetics of the facilities going to be constructed there and I guess I'm driven more about the fact that I do know the history of what the development has done and I think they built one if you want to have a storage unit I think they built one more quality storage units and in our community and the fact that they are expanding on an existing facility still going to try to maintain the attributes of what they have of is is enough for me to to support the the unit but I if there aren't any further questions I'm going to recognize council market yeah I just wanted to comment on intensive use I'm not sure what Mr. Miller based his opinion on but um self-storage units tend to be when I think about impacts on on ecological ecological impacts I think about impervious surface and self-storage units tend to be a lot of impervious surface I recognize that the site itself doesn't lend itself to being completely built out but that would be true of any use and so I'm not saying that self-storage in this case is a more intense use but I I fail to see how it's a less intense use unless we want to say whether fewer cars idling or parking because we don't have the same traffic so I I don't I want to disparage Mr. Miller's not here to make his case I'm just not understanding exactly what his case is so um anyways I I do also care about the environment I'm just not clear on how this is less impactful if I may councilmember moffat what what I believe council commissioner Miller was was looking at is let's say we follow the future land use map and develop this as garden style apartments the development plan before you this is about a 28 acre site 14 acres are left undisturbed 50 with the plan that's before you tonight if we were coming if I were coming before you with a garden style apartments it'd be way more than 14 acres that we would need to develop in order to make the project work you would have okay let me print maybe just a few acres left undisturbed only the minimum buffering requirements would be uh left undisturbed if we were to move uh in accordance with the future land use map okay that may be true let me just check here real quick sure of the I heard 28 acres about half of it being developed all part yes sir so the question I have is it's four are the 14 undisturbed acres developable some of it is because I saw a lot of steep slopes on uh uh creek and steep slopes some of that acreage and I'll get mr. wiggins to help break this down for us in more detail but some of that acreage is um the stream buffer area some of it is steep slopes some of the other areas that would be highly constrained for development but some of it is being voluntarily set aside above and beyond the ordinance requirements by the applicant okay that is that good can we get an estimate on how much is being set aside a little bit uh reduction in impact is you can get really really really rough um Jacob Wiggins with the planning department um there's an area I'm going to say approximately about six acres in size probably be developed okay it might be tricky but it is feasible I think okay thanks any other questions or comments uh if not I'm going to close the public hearing and bring the matter back before the council for entertaining motion in one direction or another move the resolution I think is the right is that the right move amending the comprehensive plan the resolution to amend the comprehensive plan second as directed in the agenda item it's been properly moved and second madam clerk will you open the vote and close the vote it passes six to one would council member moffitt voting no I will uh move the consistency statement second and properly moving second madam clerk will you open the vote and close the vote it passes six to one would council member moffitt voting no I'm sorry would you check that's a consistency statement would you change mine to yes please it passes seven to zero thank you that point of order and did you move just the plan amendment or did you move both the plan amendment and the zone case and then the first motion the first motion I made was as directed in the agenda it's it reads to adopt a resolution amending comprehensive plan to establish commercial as the site's designation of the future land use map the second item as directed in the agenda was adopt a consistency statement is there do I need to do a third thing yes Jacob Williams little planning department the first motion has two components being the future land use map amendment and the consistency statement the second motion is technically the zoning map change thank you ordinance thank you council member moffitt and I'll make that motion second and that's to include the zoning yeah that's the actual first change it's been a proper move in second madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes six to one would council member moffitt voting no thank you thank you very much we appreciate your time Mr. Mayor before you move I'd like to thank our staff for providing the hearing and enhancement uh for our applicant um talks about the shows the technology that the clerk's office has put forth in terms of our um devices yeah in compliance with ADA yes thank you Mr. Mayor I can ask council member moffitt I need to check something out with the staff um based on the conversation just happened which was not my understanding is that the first motion on the REA case the case that we already heard should have been the plan amendment and the consistency statement but the motion that was made was to move the item and the second motion was the consistency statement therefore the zoning case in the REA case I do not believe was approved so I would move if it's if we can do so I will move approval for item 26 of the zoning part of that case Jacob Wiggins the planning department um council member moffitt is correct and I apologize that I haven't heard um during that item but yeah I just make sure everything is correct with the record I would recommend that the council move to approve the zoning ordinance for item number 26 I just seconded Moffitt moved and McFadden seconded Madam Clerk will you open the vote open the vote close the vote it passes seven to zero thank you thank you council member moffitt Mr. Mayor can I just recognize council Maurice thank you Jacob can you help me understand how this is structured I we've we've changed how we've done this at least once while I've been on the council I thought we changed it such that we were doing the consistency statement first and then the zoning but these agenda items have something else first and specifically list second motion to adopt the consistency statement I realized now there's an and at the end of that and so the second motion should be both the consistency statement and adopting the amendment to the UDO I'm just looking at item 26 now um so in a perfect world if we were to do exactly do this exactly the way you think it ought to be done would it have been on item 26 the first motion would be to adopt a resolution amending the future land use map as as indicated in the agenda and then that is second and then moved and then the second motion I moved to adopt a consistency statement and an ordinance amending the UDO as directed in the agenda item is that the appropriate way to structure it um Jacob Wiggins upon apartment yes I agree and I think going forward you'll see them worded that way okay I'll try to pay more attention to ands and so what not councilman shul so just to further confuse the issue yes I heard my usual way to just to try to further confuse the issue so what would I think would be helpful Jacob is if it said that where it's a second motion to adopt a consistency that the next line be up there as part of that is that what you're thinking of doing okay if I might Pat you know with plan department I just there I think you all are well aware there have been a number of changes to state law over the last two sessions that have modified the order in which we need to do these very honestly we've been struggling through the most logical and intuitive way to structure these and we're still struggling but we will work with the manager's office in the clerk to make sure that we refine this so that it's more consistent and and more intuitive thank you thanks appreciate it y'all thank you okay the final item is item 28 initial zoning initial zoning for 4618 hopson rule these 17 000 388 thank you Jacob Wiggins with the planning department I'm sure the council is aware in June of this year the North Carolina General Assembly annexed 56 donut holes into the city's jurisdiction on July 31st of this year there was a technical corrections bill applied to that and part of those technical corrections annexed the property located at 4618 hopson road into the city's jurisdiction as it was inadvertently left out of the original bill so now that that parcel is in the city limits proper his only designation must be established staff is recommending a exact translation of the county designated zoning of residential rule given that this action for the annexation has already taken place there was no fiscal analysis nor extension agreement required once again there are two motions to approve this item the first one is to just a consistency statement the second motion would be to adopt an initial zoning ordinance I mean I'm happy to answer any questions that the council may have regarding this item you've heard the staff report the public hearing the public hearing is open questions by members of the staff hearing nine is there anyone in the audience that wants to speak on this item the one that signed up to speak let the record reflect the one sign up speak on this item and clear to put me close the matter for the council I moved the consistency statement and proud to move the second madam clerk we open the vote open the vote close the vote it passes seven zero and I'll move the initial zoning ordinance I'll second that as well we open the vote close the vote it passes seven zero any other items to come before the council close session means adjourn going to close session per a request about a city manager where do we do this when we just go up to our conference room I think we can get quite quicker than by the time we get all the already did that we did that when we except as part