One of the coolest fights in the entire Dragon Ball franchise has to go to Bardock vs. Frieza. Bardock never had a chance, spoilers. But this fight has always been really cool in the games. Especially in the older Dragon Ball Z games like Dragon Ball Z Infinite World. To be honest, I think I have a better chance of him in the show, so... Alright, I'm already very worried about this. We're on a broken planet, Frieza has some health, but not a lot, and I have... Oh, we just blocked out. Oh my god, Frieza! Ah, he's done. He's actually cooked. Frieza is so scared. He's worried. He's afraid of the Saiyans! Any side step. Damn! I wonder if he can transform. That would be crazy. If Little Frieza transformed, that would not be canon at all. Oh no. Oh, we dodged those. No way, we just... We just flat out win. If we just flat out win, I am... One try? What was Bardock driven about if it was one try? I didn't transform. Little Frieza got hands. Okay, he blocked it. But I perfect blocked that. For the Saiyans! Damn! Okay, he kind of... Damn! Everything! Damn! Dodged! Crazy clutch. Backdash that. My sternum! Oh, look at this clash! What is happening? This is actually the battle for Planet Vegeta right now. Back it up. All right, I just got hit by every possible key last, but I'll take that. Everything! He keeps side stepping my right. Everything! Everything! Oh, my nose. You broke my nose. All right, I don't know if I want to... I'm restarting. I'm not losing. I'm not losing. I'm not flat out. Just not going to lose. This is for the Saiyans. Oh, but what if I hit him with the Saiyan spirit? But what if I actually hit him with the Saiyan spirit though? For real. Damn! Damn! He's kind of got hands. He's kind of got hands. Okay. I didn't even want to sub that. Oh, I lost the whole health bar. Everything!  He is so fast with those key blasts. My man has the automatic machine gun. Nice. That time I reflect them. Everything! No way he teleports that. Oh, that was great! Finish! Finish! Beat down! Get him out of here! Everything! Oh, he kind of dodged us. Tech that! He's off the merchandise. Okay. All right. No need. One more charge. One more charge. Death beam. Wow, we're taking it mad serious now. Why is he playing for real for it? Okay. I was looking for my cancel combo there. Nice bonus bar lock.  Let him know that we ain't playing around anymore.  We're almost on green though. I don't know why this fight feels difficult. I feel like Frieza hasn't even done anything like. Frieza! He shot me. He shot me.  He got me. I'm going to full. I want to hit my ultimate so bad. Oh, big mistake. This guy didn't know he's like 311. This guy is whipping all of his normals. Dodged to the right. Bunk him on the. Oh, we traded. That was crazy. That was crazy. Oh, how did he turn around that quick? Oh, that was clean. That was intense. Everything. Oh, sit down. Bitch. Sit down again. Bitch. Heat fall nicks. What is the heat fall nicks? What? Are we just making up moves now?  You know what? I'll do it. Why don't I not do it? Heat fall nicks. Everything. Oh, do it, do it, do it. Bop. Oh, my God. It took so much out of the way for him. Can I combo that into my ultimate? That would be nuts. Is heat fall nicks the best move in the game? Ah, well, I wouldn't know because I can't. I keep getting shot. Frieza, stay over there. I blocked it. I blocked it. I didn't perfect block it though. Oh, into the Saiyan spirit. How did defense win?  I need to hit him harder than that. I'm gonna hit you so hard. Drag him off. Drag him off. Drag him off. Oh, Frieza, you're not dodging the Saiyan spirit. Dude, you can try, but you're not dodging it. No. No, no, no, no, no. I can't go outside. I can't go outside. I'm not going outside. I'm not going out sad. No, no. Libit. Libit, Libit. You got a little bit more. Lib, Lib, Lib, Lib, Lib. Yes. Yes. Teleport, teleport. Yes. Yes. Saiyan spirit, Frieza did he win again?  I'm still winning this To think he would win I'm zero. Whoa, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa was drifting All right, Frieza went down nice and easy. He didn't even stand a chance for it What what fight did that unlock do? I get to do another fight maybe Super Saiyan Bardock Oh Versus Bart off do I get to play as Frieza? Oh, no, do I have to actually correct the timeline now? Oh wait, it's a dream. I'm playing as Goku. I get to fight my dad.  Whoa, Bardock is buff. This man has a million health bars It's Bardock secretly the boss. All right, I'm gonna have to practice my cancel combos. It's been a while Damn, okay, so he's actually gonna show me how we're supposed to play Bardock I was able to do it, but I don't know maybe Bardock's got some tricks up his sleeve. Stop. Can I transform? No, I can't I can't transform. Okay, Bardock is actually scrapping. This man is good at the game Okay, Bardock is aggressive. Damn, he found it. Damn, he knocked me out. Damn, he got me again.     Okay, I got it. I was practicing my cancel combos. That's my excuse for the last match. He lucky I was practicing, bro No, no, no, no, no, no Damn it. He's good. He's good. He's good. He knows he knows Okay, can't dodge that. Oh, my temple Why he strike me like I was on punishment for that? All right, his combos are nutty. I get it Bardock combo game is nuts I totally understand that but he ain't as good as me though. I'll tell you that right now He ain't as good as me.  Okay. No, I didn't want to teleport. Oh Damn, oh But I wanted to dash away. It's okay. This is our best start so far He still has a little bit of his first help I left, but we just banished banished banished banished I'll beat down a budge. Oh, I'm not a key. I'm not a key. I was spamming. Oh, I was spamming the key blast button, too He thinks he better than me. He really thinks he better than me. He thinks I got it. No, no Oh, and now I get my full combos Uh-huh, uh-huh, and that's without a cancel too. Oh my god. He's getting at me Oh Bardock, what happened money? What happened? You were so sure that you were going to be able to avenge insane.  Yeah, now who's passed out? Why couldn't I cancel it out? No. Oh, he tried to hit me with his ultimate Okay, we're vanishing we're vanishing hold this Oh Oh nice nice nice. I dodged it. I why I think I could uh, oh nice dodge goku.  We perfect guarded I'm still alive. I'm still alive. I fight these I win these We win these we win these I didn't have enough key.  He was following my foot. Ah Back off bardock. Give me some space. Okay bardock this time. I'm fighting for real enough clowning around I'm the best hope for the sayings now Oh damn bardock didn't even try This is how the defense keeps winning bardock can't even hit this. He might be able to hit the ultimate But I'll block that perfectly watch that perfect guard out That's like what 600 damage.  I come in get up goku. I was down for like 60 any grabbing No, that was a big mistake. Now you just get vanished combo Vanished combo again. You shouldn't have done it. Just not worth the risk bard. I just simply wouldn't do it Am I through the riot javelin doesn't seem like the best move here I did not meet a vanish that many times.  He hit me hard Oh, but I hit him with a mean uppercut Okay, I tried to give him a beam to go home with but he didn't want to Where you running off? Oh, he wasn't running. He was strategically retreating out Damn, okay. Okay. I'll give up. I'll give up. I'll go. I'll go. I'll go. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. Why does he have combo game? Sit over there and think about what you know.  That was crazy Well, I tried to check his defense block that return fire. Yeah I'm at a key. No. Oh, but at least he knocked me out.  Love that for me Oh my god, he hits hard nice. Send him back Perfect guard that. Yep It didn't work uppercut double uppercut into the sliding down the slide knockdown. That's all I needed Don't combo that Don't combo anything else with it Oh, he lucky for he lucky for throat he lasts. I knew he would too. I just don't know and he did it again All right enough enough he lasts Oh, he grabbed me out of my charge attack. This is a really bad run I don't know. I'm still playing probably because I'm nice at the game. Nope. Oh, I passed out No Why was why go to target the camera man? Is there a reason do we not like that guy? Nice Ron the come up or a little low on health, but I think this is going perfectly Okay, okay. He wins. He wins. He was hitting pretty hard Whoa Whoa Not that got him looking because I'm out. I'm out. Oh my god I put his back to the wall.  Look at him kids live in confidence over there. He's getting warmed up. Too bad. I have to embarrass him Too bad.   Oh, he grabbed me. He perfectly timed that grab too. If I would have canceled I would have gotten a whole combo on him like the one I'm about to do now. We oh, I missed it. I missed advantage What I need to stun him He's still not stunned. Okay. We'll stun him next time. I'm gonna go with the dive kick.  Broken guard. Oh, he dodged it. Oh I hope you don't think that's the end of it though. I hope you don't think dodge that I dropped that I can make this come back No, oh my god. I still have one health left Okay, bar doc enough messing around I said this I'm a new a numeral bad at times though.   You know what? I'll just call it early on that one. So long my sweet prince What's up bar doc? Oh my god. This guy thinks it's awesome. Give me that car Oh, he had to dodge that. He knew that was a guard break. The computer actually knows everything.  Oh Oh my god, somebody check this guy for Somebody check this guy's skull. It has to be broken up there Dodge Oh, and he's stunned. I might as well burst Take that what you oh 643, you know, it doesn't get much better than that. He knocked me out. He sent me flying across the whole stage I didn't mean to do this, but How many times are you gonna sit me across this thing?  That would have added like another five minutes to my retry time I'm not doing that Block the keyblast Goku. We just need to reflect them. All we need to do is reflect them and we get so much No, I'm burst mode. Yeah, keep that ultimate to yourself. Yeah, keep it to your Oh, why'd he backhand me? Oh, wait, wait, perfect guard. Why am I not doing any damage? There we go. There's some damage on the board Okay, we got grabbed again bar. I just got combos. I don't know why they gave bar dot combos.  Take a beat. Yeah, I'm looking for He keeps trying to do that ultimate up close. He wants to hit it. I'm not gonna let him.  That's just too good to pass up Okay, he's stunning. He's stunning. Oh, no, he has his ultimate. He didn't want to use it The easiest chance he's ever gonna get he didn't want to use it too proud.  I don't know why me and bar. I just get distance between block that. Okay, dude Oh, we're trading blows. Okay. We're getting cloud this game Oh my god, he's getting He's getting cloud on. Oh my god. Look at the little Saiyan baby over here crying about his planet Oh, why dude? Why I go never heard of him. Am I supposed to care? Not get him out.  Oh No, no, here's what we're not going to do. We're not going to we're not going to fight. We're not going to fight But go go look at where your opponent is my guy was fighting the air. He was pissed Oh, no way. I missed those. Oh, I'm stunned.  This dude is just going for the combo game Okay, well that also hits for a million for some reason so that's really cool Shut up over there. Haha. Yeah, take 200 damage. Why don't you have to be very careful about what I do here?  What's he doing? No, I was I messed up the block. No, no, no. Oh, it doesn't matter. I'm dead anyway This bot is how did he still win? My guy didn't even play the game. He didn't even try I was dead anyway baron. Oh my god. We're throwing in all these style points.  He did that I'll do it too Oh, he caught me stepping up There we go. I'll take that comment out for the damage. I'm done. I'm so done with this bar. He's done everything But you know what he inspired me actually, you know what? He never gave up even though I was embarrassed I was embarrassing. Oh I embarrassed him that last match, but did he give up? No because his computer designed to fight until his health reaches zero But me I'm a machine. My I retry I'm a machine myself in some way the way I the way I go through the pause menu You would think I've been on there my whole life barug is the most annoying bot with these keyblasts Like he sometimes fires them and other times he just forgets their thing.  No Oh, and I'm right there to catch you Ow I can't believe he didn't knock me out with that. I'm gonna be honest. I am really on the edge Bro, you know you done swinging on things though. All right, good. Oh, he pop He tried to hit his alt of it bro is embarrassing.  I made him sit up. I spun him around I put that guy in the the baby seat Wow, that was childish of him to do all that damage. That was unnecessary. Keyblast No, he's just swinging at the air still. He's pretty pissed And then I run up and duck Okay started with uh five, you know, I'm just gonna retry There's no need for me to there's no need for me to pretend like I didn't I wasn't annoyed by those keyblasts I was only now. I'm a different guy Oh, I I've just got his number. I've got his number now I'm grabbing. All right, but throw a keyblast then throw a keyblast Just what I was waiting for just what I was waiting for you. I had so nice. He did what I exactly what I asked He's just a great dad to be honest He knew I was coming in Oh I sent him into a nearby mound. I got this man to a gill He's studying rocks. I'm gonna take the easier words.  I think but I don't know I had like that was like batman with in in fan fights, but I had like years of prep time to choose a sentence I still couldn't come up with anything smart Oh, why did he hit me that hard?  I'll say it. I'll say what everybody's thinking You don't have to go down in the comments and time stamp it and say that was bullshit I I know I know I'm saying what we're thinking right now. How did this turn into a 40 minute fight? I did not think barok was gonna put up this much of a fight Nice Fundamentals has gotten us this far, but we need some flash. I need flash to get to the finish line It's gonna be close. It's gonna be close. We need to clutch up.  Oh careful careful careful hands off Okay Just need a good start. Come on bar.  That is exactly what I need to see early in the match. That is huge That is great stuff bar. Come in No way. He perfectly dodged that Into what he fell and down to the green Good enough. Good enough. Good enough. We're in the green. We're tied. We're tied. No. Oh, oh, that's huge Combo that. Yes. Now. We have to lead Go for it. Ah, he went for the grab Nothing we could have done just take the damage we can get He's fighting. He wants to make it even. I'm sending him back to where he belongs. I'm sending him back to other world Not okay. I can combo from that He's done He she finishes out of it. That should be it Yes Yeah, you could throw a key blast at me all day, huh bar? But now you're going back to other world The sayings will be forgotten. Just kidding. I'll live on. Whoo We're gonna call it there. I've been fighting bar up for too long I didn't even talk most of the last match. I just wanted them dead. Oh my god. Hopefully you enjoyed this video I wonder what level unlocks next. Let's go ahead and see who we're fighting next in the infinite world series I can't believe we're not done with this game yet. I thought we'd be done like eight years ago Oh, nobody's next. So it looks like we're going back to broley Make sure you subscribe because this this is not gonna get any better from me


Yeah, we on boss talk one-on-one. Yeah, we gonna talk. We're gonna have fun. We'll be on fire. We'll be lately Check it. Check it. Check it. It's a unique house. It's your boy ECO and I'm here with the lovely amazing official miss Jamaica What's going on? None none. You know my day. We're all gone But I want to let y'all know to make sure y'all follow our social media and all social media platform I'm including Facebook Instagram YouTube you name it. We're on it tick tock everything snapchat. You name it We're on it, but The most important place for you to go follow right now is our new patreon channel That's the only place you're gonna find our full length interviews after a while right now We're spoiling you on YouTube, but after a while that won't be on there anymore So for those who love the full length interviews, just go ahead and for a small membership fee You can see all the full length interviews you want on patreon man. Hold up Man, we got a surprise guest here y'all you would never guess who popped up in the town You don't really be just showing up, you know, I ain't know he's gonna be here today I just got a phone call cuz we talked like that matter of fact this guy right here, man I met him over here before boss talk. Let's just say that right now You know some people are genuine then you got people who just fake But then you got my boy Cam God who a real partner of mine, man Y'all just heard it man. Cam God is in the building man. What's going on? That's the damn deal Rusky was good man. It's good to have you man Hey, man, listen man you up in this city, man. I guess you point that camera around I don't know cuz it really be honest with you.    I remember I think it was that that that one with Nipsey hustle wasn't it? Did you do Nipsey one time? I did Nipsey one time. Yeah Three times I'm talking about when he came to Dallas. I remember that's how I would I'm gonna be out I will follow your Instagram just to see what was going on. That's how I went out at night You know, yeah, yeah, he had that by the block Yeah, by the block back out here and then he had the one Event that he had at prom.  It's kicking out there.   Only thing that changed was the change, you know, I mean the muddy change that was it. I mean however everything else It's been the same way. It's the same formula always work hard stay consistent and bring your best day game You know, so you haven't changed your formula, you know as time go along We all try to improve on our craft. So you didn't try to do nothing different within the past three years to make yourself better I mean being around the people that I be around it just I Get better being around because of the the consistency in the motion because it's more motion I would say that's the change because usually you'll see me with a lot of artists and Shooting a lot of music videos now. You see me shooting a lot of comedians or shooting a lot of other people That's doing other Entertain more different people more in the entertainment industry Let me put out. You know saying I got a you know, I got billionaires under my belt, too You know saying we got you know, you shooting those type of the whole type of mindset now changes and now in me working I Put it's it's more of being in tune in what I do and the people that's around and I'm learning more about myself Because when you're around them, you start learning about finances you start, you know I'm around people that's millionaires and billionaires and things like that So I'm seeing how they work and I'm talking about they work, you know, people be like, oh well The artists, you know, they have people that they hire to work on their social media to market their stuff to do that No, they really be doing it themselves the billionaires that I be around, you know I'm saying the card owns or anything. They're actually working putting out They may have people shooting their content, but they're actually on their phone dropping it putting on a page doing everything, you know Themselves, right? Wait a minute. You just said you just said a buzz word the card owns. That's a lot of money You know, this this guy here is a motivational speaker when it comes to financing and entrepreneurship How did you end up linking with them? Oh, that was crazy. Um, I had got a call From Steven Goudau. Okay. He's a fashion designer, you know Out here. He just was out in New York Fashion Week had a whole event out there and me him Never worked before, you know, however, we were good friends through somebody that we know named Cassie and He had called me and say hey, you busy today and I said no so then He's like, well, I'm have somebody reach out and call you so they called me and say hey We have somebody that needs some video work. Are you able to do it today? Yes The camera guy did not show up. So we need you. I'm like bet.  Yeah, yeah, I got you. I ain't doing nothing. I got damn me. Um, get dressed shoot up over there I did not know who I was running to first off. I didn't even know but they sent me the hotel So I see a sprinter. I'm like, okay, it must be somebody got a sprinter van out here I see a white lady walk to it. I said, hey, I'm here to shoot. She's like, oh, they're upstairs So I'm like, okay, this is totally different now. She's like, I'm the nanny Okay, so I get on the elevator as soon as I get on the elevator to get upstairs It was Elena Cardone and Sabrina and Scarlett her daughters soon as we seen each other we instantly was like an instant type of We it's like we knew each other already and it was like a click and we just vibe. It was a vibe right there. So um Got on the sprinter van with them. We started chopping it up. I did not know who she was Like that. I'm known of her husband, but she mentioned us, but I'm like, no, not really and then she said show me a picture I'm like, okay. Yeah, I know him. But as I was knowing getting to learn her it was like crazy It was like she pretty down the earth. She's not how people, you know, would think of billionaires or anything like that She's really really for real down the earth. She's from Louisiana as well. So me and her chopped it up. We get to the event center Still don't know really how what she does or how she fits in. I'm just thinking her daughters because they was doing a Pageant they was taking pictures out here, but they're in Miami, but they was taking pictures out here And so she also had an event at an arena I didn't know it was an arena because we came back, you know from back and I was in the sprinter van So I didn't see the building or anything like that.  They got this big old stage They got all the people sitting outside. I mean sitting in the crowd and everything. So I'm just chilling like, okay, okay, it's a good event Soon as she's about to come out they start saying her credentials She's she's in a helicopter shooting machine guns and shooting shots at different stuff.  They just breaking it down who she is Next thing you know, you got Grant Cardone speaking on her.  So she was like she came out. They had the fireworks So I'm like, oh man, she is somebody like she really doing it and then From there, I mean her already had a connection. Um, and as far as working and everything But we built a relationship based off on that. Um, but I linked up with her through someone named Miss Skittles And Miss Skittles also is a uh entrepreneur millionaire her husband named Mr. Zoda goat. He does Airbnb's He's also an entrepreneur millionaire Yeah So, uh, they she you know, so, um, they was like man, we love your work. We love what you're doing. Um, Can you uh come out to Atlanta? You know, so it was like, you know, that's that's how that situation linked went to Atlanta and then you know start working more with grant because they, um They have a lot of business that they deal with them. So when out there and start working with grant That's crazy. So Okay So that was like your first introduction into that world or into that world? Yes. That was my that's yes Totally different. It's totally different and one thing I realized about a lot of videographers And that's what they've always told me once they start to venture off in that world They usually give up on the music videos. They're like, I do not want to film any music videos ever again Is that how you feel? No, no, no, no, I still I still love to shoot. Um music videos I I I I love to shoot period. It doesn't matter. Whatever it is.  However, um It's it's it's different, but you learn how to market yourself But I I still love to shoot music videos Regarding I wouldn't I wouldn't change it. I still do. I'm out here now. I'm telling people Hey, let's shoot some music videos Let's get it in because I want to also where I'm at in my platform I'm trying to look out for y'all. I'm trying to help you all out too.  Yes, I have um been doing a little small projects being in Atlanta Because you know, it's a lot of people that's filming out there. So, um, that's the black Hollywood Yes, you know, and they have some dope. I'm talking about some dope filmmakers out there I'm talking about they it's a lot of work that's going on out there However, I haven't got fully into it fully fully fully, but that's what I'm gonna be That's where you want to be. Yes, man And I think you need to call me when you get ready because I'm not going to act and I'm gonna do some directing Um, I do have friends phase on shot the phase on love who yeah me and that boy would go hard and yeah Columbus shorts on my show gonna be dope from the jump them do right there I think I'm in the I'm in the building Definitely gotta call phase on man, that's that's that's one under my belt Definitely gotta call phase on Man, so that's that's hard man You know when you start dealing with billionaires and and god start putting you on that level man You start to understand man that the people who got the most going on you look the nicest people I'm serious really chill I said that when I first met uh, Steve Madden and we became partners and I was like man This dude every time I seen him. He was nice as ever, bro So it was like man the more and then you meet the ones who Wanna-bees Who ain't really just they scraping it right? Oh, they aggressively I'm that guy or I'm that girl So you start to see that as you start to elevate in your Because god trying to show that to you so you can change the way you thinking about this thing because when I open this door for you Now you gonna have to be a person who Understand how to help others right because you you you gotta help people. That's the whole game The reason god will open the door for you to be blessed like that That's the only that's the only reason why I see why uh the position that I mean, you know It's for myself and my family as well However, at the same time it's always connected and help another people because when you start helping one person That person gonna help another person.  I always talk about him So I'll put him up on the show, but I gotta meet him But chico bean and that thing carlos miller man, you know, shout out to my boy dunk master for linking me with Oh, yeah, but I'm telling you man when I met this uh carlos, dude Boy, that was funny and I had a great time. I probably hadn't had another That's funny like like but we went hard together like you seen it. Yeah, I was acting up I didn't really I never really I'm one of the dudes who I don't look at I really don't think about nothing that you done I just think about what me and you can do together. Right. So when I meet him I'm tripping because that's just who I am. We had a great time in here. Yeah And uh the dude man just a phenomenal guy when I started to research him more And I started to see him and his whole I really learned more about him after he left I'm being real. I wasn't really on him like that when he was here I would do that because of my son and dunk master and My wife what you really didn't know him either. It was more just my son and all the youngsters my co-host And coop coop love him. Yeah, they love this nigga. So when I'm dealing with him, I'm like damn man, this nigga Really that guy like I found out that day after that, but during the time we're doing the interview I just had a damn good time with him. You gotta tap in, you know, we are um on at the end of the day tour right now Okay, um man this shows is crazy, uh virginia, northfolk, uh crazy We we was in north charleson.  I didn't get to go to that show I talked crazy to him after was on the text. I'm like niggas. Y'all could have told me y'all was doing that down there I had to pull it up. Yeah, and then uh, you know, he had he was the guy, you know, for me But then I met chico man and uh chico chico showed me too much love, bro You know what I'm saying? Like this nigga showed me love pull talk crazy about me while I was in the audience though I don't play that. I don't play that with the niggas. So you know Yeah, that's what he was trying to do I just talked about me talking nice about my wife.   I appreciate that. I saw that I was like, oh hell. Yeah, you know, I had to post that I know it was real though. It's all it's always real. That's um same thing with chico See people whoever you see me with I can be whoever be with whoever I want to be with or Be with this person and that person I kind of I choose the people who I want to be around um carlos being around carlos for like five Yeah, well almost six um since the first time I started with the camera.  Um with chico I was at the verizon. Well, it was the verizon center then but now it's called the texas true center or whatever like that So they wouldn't they was uh Trying to hold their nuts on me at the gate. Like, oh no, you can't get in or whatever like that So I had to call rip michael's or but I couldn't get in touch with him So I was telling chico. Hey man, can you uh get somebody for me? So chico, he didn't know me from nowhere. They all came in it was him conceded dc All them they all walked in up the stairs or whatever But chico hood. I was like man. Hey, can you get somebody for me?  You know what I mean?   I said you real for that I never forget that man and you you can't you don't forget when somebody do something that's 100 like that, you know what I'm saying you don't and and he seemed that way when we met You know, what did you get from me? No chico being I felt the same way that he was real genuine. He loved to meddle though, but he was Well, I mean that's that's that go with this behind this mic. It's some people that I mean, it's not bad It was funny. Yeah, it's real funny. Why cuz you're ranking on me a little bit But you know me if I had the mic, you know how to get with him, don't you? The reason being because I treat this like under the tree I don't treat this like they really on the stage, but we had these same conversations under the tree We were tripping under the tree. So it's the same to me Right, so it don't matter.   Y'all go chill, you know, y'all be by your park cars or whatever like that Because especially out here well in Fort Worth, that's where I'm from, you know That's every time we get off of work And you know, most of the jobs that we got out there is on forklift So we the forklift drivers as soon as we got there and we get off of work We all link up chop it up talk and it'd be some old cats that's be out there We'd be learning to get in the game from them. That's right under the bridge out here too That's another place on the south under the bridge. Yeah, it's places where these conversations been going on It just wasn't no audience Podcasting was going on alone before this It just was called something else because just talking, you know what I'm saying? So I just enjoy conversing with brothers that look like me You know what I mean? And that's why when I got an opportunity I said we got to do cam got a day We can't go out of town without doing my body and I appreciate that and so I just enjoy you So let's talk about it man Let's uh get on into it man because you not only work with them man You you got dope pictures of everybody man Like I when I see your page whether it be mode three whether it be whoever You know, I see dope pictures and dope work man How is it when you go into a place? How do you scope out in a lot a large audience like that? How do you get that captured moment like you do because a lot of people try to do it and they don't do it like you? um, you gotta it's like a It's a field that I have um, I really don't do too much thinking about it soon as I get there.   I didn't plan on being around on celebrities I didn't choose this. I didn't even choose this life at all. I would just shoot rocks and streets and Doing behind the scene music videos. I didn't plan to be nowhere doing this But I just be at the right place at the right time. So that's the only way I could explain it Wow man, you know, I seen you you when I really felt the special moment was when you linked with bubble dub And you see me at the show like that was right there I don't come out. But when I come out with when when when bubble dub never seen I've never seen you I think I was a surprise for me to see both y'all. I don't see you anywhere But bubble dub different for me that's family. So when he when he called or he tell us he coming to town We gotta come, you know, we was in new all ins together. So wherever if he pulled up I'm pulling up. That's the same thing. He was out there at um I seen him at uh, I saw he was at trap city cafe.  I missed it But then I found out that he was gonna do a show there He did he did the show and then I was I pulled up, you know, I mean right up there I'm glad. Yeah. Yeah. I got some shots of him. See that wasn't even planned or anything It wasn't like, oh, yeah, y'all gotta pay me or something like that It was like out of love, you know, I'm saying it's all about building a relationship Your relationship is worth more than money.  This is a gift that I'm giving to you. It's a gift that God gave me So this is what I'm doing it for. Yeah Like I said bubble dub different man that night he killed it that night too. I remember you remember that night He kills it on that stage man. And so how did you and him even link? um That that that that that's a story right there. Um I met bubba It was with dc young fly. Okay, I met him at the uh, what's the theater? What's the um The comedy show in our arlington. What's it called improv improv. So it was at the arlington improv. Um I was up there with dc. We had two sold out shows um, so it was the second show so Somebody came in the back and it was like, hey, um, and I already seen bubba dub I already seen bubba. So Uh, and I'm gonna keep it a buck on here. I'm gonna keep it real. So Uh, it was a dude named ball and you had his manager dj. Wild hair. That was back there. Yeah So me and wild hair. I've been knowing wild hair way back since you had I don't know if y'all know about hard bodies of peeping toms and arlington or whatever like that I got my card at the house on my table right now So, yeah The gold the gold card you get in. I got it at tables a little cracked up. Yeah No, you're not. Yeah, it's right there on the table right now. I'll go back. I'm a real one there. Yeah, I'll be laughing at you That's how long I've been outside. No, you're Yeah, that's why I tell a lot of people I've been outside You know what I mean? So, um He I somebody came to the dressing room. Hey, somebody's uh trying to get back here. Um, you have some people here So dc ain't only was so I'm like, I'm from here. I'm the only person that's from here So I'm gonna go and see who it is. You know what I mean? So I go see my boy ball. Oh ball I ain't see it was bubble, but I see it was wild here now. I mean wild here. We had kind of like friction You know, uh, in a certain situation at a certain time we did so, um, and it was right at the time when I was starting to I'm coming up. I'm doing what I'm doing. So, you know, I got to where I'm at now Then I see him now. So I you know Uh, seeing him he came out. Um Me and him chopped it up about it.     You know what I mean? I appreciate everyone has been in my life. Yeah, you know, he just he's moving fast, man The way that the the sports world has embraced him The way that the people have have really respected him in in his craft the word trash the way he Man, he blew that through the whole system.  And if you look at it that way you can kind of understand why this dude might not even understand Or know who he is because I I've been in those situations where you might not know him, but I know I'm just I got love for him You know what I'm saying because I already know it. We we still moving Everybody's still moving like you moving everybody moving man. So what's what's the next next thing for you that that you want to You know accomplish be I mean when we was talking about the movies, of course the movies the movies that's that's that's definitely um, I kind of start learning Different it's still certain ways that you know, I'm looking at that But I really really really as I'm because you know, I'm I'm on damn there. I'm on two tours right now What about skits? You don't you never did think about those? I've always thought about skits, but it's just the timing timing. It's the timing it because once I do it Or it's not even that it's just having the right people Because me I'm consistent. See I'ma tell you this me being in Dallas and this is the reason why I tell people This is why I'm in Atlanta as well. Um I'll be wanting to work. It's a lot of people do not that they're they're lazy, you know, I mean in in in this game You can't be Oh, I'm not gonna do it because you know my rent ain't paid or Uh, I can't find no babysitter or I got this going on or um, you know, um, man I just don't feel like it today. I'm pissed off today. I'm feeling no It don't matter you got to get it in at all costs You know, um, the one thing that makes me be where I'm at and give me a little edge is that regardless not foot hurt back hurt Um, then eat got to use a restaurant. I'ma be there. I'ma work It's all about grinding and putting in the work and I see that with everyone. It does not matter There's no excuse, you know, I mean things come up things always going to happen You got them with photographers and videographers. I say we are great. Um, uh, was it scenario handlers or um, we handle situations very well because we have to improvise on a lot of Things the lights may not be there. The person may not show up what you're going to do I mean, it's nothing else that you Can do but wait or figure it out and get the shot because if you don't get the shot then hey That's money. That's another day that you got to go and uh shoot again. That's that's time It's just too much. So you have to always we're great problem solvers. That's my head. Um, so You know, we have to figure it out right there and then and be the people that I'll be around dealing with the companies being on tour Um, things don't go right on there. You still have to get the job done regardless or not So it's really no excuses Let me ask you about uh, ti man for me. Let's go back to him because we didn't really we just scraped the surface on Like how did you and him even? Gain a relationship. I met tip when I was in Atlanta. Um, I was out there shooting uh Charleston white and uh, we just left the 85 South show and You know, I'm always Want to be consistent in working then I also have friends that are in the industry You had Tony Roberts and Sir Lance Woods. They had a show at the Atlanta comedy theater So I was like, hey, I'm gonna pop up. So it was like, yeah, come through I ain't asking how much it cost or hey, bro. This I'm a charge. I'm like, I'm pop up and show love to my boy So came and show love. I'm back. Uh, I'm shooting. Um, it was Sir Lance on stage Uh, I think I think it was Tony, but I think it was Lance too, but um, I'm sitting down Tiny comes and sit down. So I'm like, oh tiny up in here. That's what's up. Um, I said I maybe tip being here, but he He would be sitting down because this was tip when he was Before he really even just did the comedy. This is his first night You know what I mean? So No We go to the um, I go backstage. I'm like, you know, I'm just move because I'm always moving around So I go backstage. I open up the door ti open it up. I'm like, oh Rubber band man That's right, man, I've been grew. I'm a big big Rubber band man. I've been rocking with ti since I'm serious. You know what I mean? Did you see me in boba dough? We shot that nigga out the other day? Why we went in on that whole situation, man? We show love to the nigga though, because it was just me and me and boba dough real one But I just thought when you said rubber band man, that's what he said I mean rubber band man Yeah, that's them.  I used to have my hat to the side Man when I was in jail, they used to be like bad.  But no tip. I'll be pricey watching now, but tip.  So I'm he's so I asked him about that.   So it's not like I'm Good, you know, I'm saying so he trying to want to get better and better and better Which now if you watch him from then I'm genuine. I'm genuinely being honest. That's your boy though. He no not listen I keep I keep 100 with tip. Shoot. I'm over there in Atlanta.  He said, hey, I heard you was out here in Atlanta, you know, if I could be an assistant Um, assist, uh, what do you say?  Do you want to talk into you? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I didn't know if you just do it for the camera So if you just do it when he's talking, right? No, mm-hmm. Okay. He actually, um I ain't never he meant him talk where every time you see him a million times on that wall Every time I see him we just chopping it up Like hey, man, let's get this picture whatever it was no no conversation at all really like I just bought a lot of day I'm a coup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they owe me money for buying all the day. I'm a coup man I don't know if he's still even selling hustle game. I don't know Uh, they did it rough them still getting to it. They're my people man. They're always gonna hustle. Yeah But anyway, but he yeah, but he um, he was like man if I could be an assistant Anyway to you why you out here, you know, I mean accessible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah to you. Why you out here? You know, let me know or whatever like that. And I was like bet. So, um, right when he just Opened up trap city cafe Uh, I hit him up. He was like, hey man come through. I was like bet came through show love and everything like that Um, I'm talking about traps trap city cafe I hadn't been we hadn't been down there since he opened that we gonna go by there You know, I always I'm always supportive brother. They look like me it don't matter That's why I did a coup all them years because I feel like him and Ralph and at least at the time That was working with rp 55 Being that they look like me, you know, I always try to show love and and that was the whole game for me Jerry shout out Jerry like like all the people that rock with with with him even jeta Jason jeta all them dudes man. They're all them people dope, bro So but for you to be able to link with him and really get a relationship with him being That the niggas don't let too many niggas get close to him like that. I'm gonna tell you that right now He ain't really rocking like that. But at the who he rock with he rock with right? So that's the dope man. You know, I think that's hard. I really do No, that's that's that's I mean she that's a blessing.  I mean that's that's a big big big blessing The niggas who got a relationship with him like quick trip the one quick trip my partner down there Like I answer the phone I pick up and call the man. He rock with him a lot Like it's certain local dudes I rock with Because a shout, you know Certain dudes and I like the red the shine. Yeah, I'll be down there a certain dude. I rock the reds I just see him that big boogie Album release party. Yeah, they they rock with certain And if you in that group you might mess around there and you may see me because I'm I'm I'm linked with these guys Oh, yeah, we already know that we see the wall We know the wall Yeah, I'm just saying I've been doing these years. You know I've been doing this. I ain't even got no beard That would be four balls. So But you know, I just like I said all the young young dudes out here getting to it, man Like I said, again My biggest thing is the dudes that look like me man brothers Who didn't really when you go back so far and where we come from Entrepreneurship looked different. There was a lot of people that didn't look like us So I understand that I see now more people looking like us that's able to understand Entrepreneurial true entrepreneurship and I think that's live So when I see dudes like tip when I see dudes like you when I see dudes like carlos miller bubba dub Country wane, you know I'm saying the the younger dudes, you know, that's getting to this bag like y'all doing It ain't something that's been happening all the time And I think we need to really really just focus and understand us a blessing to be in positions That we're in but just let's shine the light on this too as well Even even though you being in those situations or having those relationships Sometimes your motherfucking finances may not be in order all the way up there.    Everybody has a special talent. It's not just people. I'm like Me even being there. I'm the newbie, you know people been there for like nine ten 13 years You know, even if it's the two years or whatever they've been there and they put their dues in They put their work in every single person there has a special ability and quality that's there And they're their own person But you know guys just apply all your needs according these riches and glory I'm gonna take you to church right quick. All I'm gonna tell you is when you plan to see they're gonna be a harvest, bro Is you if you try if you take one step He'll take two all this stuff is really you think it's cliche But it's really real like you you doing all of this stuff But god not gonna let you do this and do that and there not be something there a reaction to it He that universe will bless you, bro So as you keep making those ventures if you keep jumping and doing the things you do to keep on pushing It's gonna always I can always make a way, bro. Always always It don't matter. It could be I'm talking about boy. I had though. I'm talking about probably $14 $30 in their account or something and it's always something that I'm talking about that that always Happens to where I'll let you know you good.  Yeah, you didn't know it was happening.  Hey C-Ray Hey, man, this one of the real ones right here. Hey, you know, you know, I've been knowing us seeing us Let me see hold that up Let me see what we got here because this might not disa-replicate. I think he didn't draw I tend to catalyze Oh, they're real strokes, baby Yeah, he done it, man Yeah, he done it Yeah, he done it. He done it. That's the official. That's my signature. They yes, sir. Yes, sir If you know, um, C-Ray, I mean when I first met C-Ray and seen C-Ray is when he also He did nipsey hustle, um the um the vision the vid the vid uh, what was it called? Uh, the catalyze vision The catalyze visual and was baby. I'm tomorrow. He had a dope eyes picture. I'm tomorrow of nipsey hustle everybody was out there I mean that it went global that whole video the whole picture and that's when I really started knowing about C-Ray But C-Ray been putting in stuff the 85 South show. Shoot. His stuff is on the fence. His stuff is I mean, he got uh, Who else you have? Um, shoot. I done did faze. I love all those Shoot from Lebron Dallas.  I'm tomorrow.  Don't forget super tight. You did You Pimp see jay's prince Eric about do I seen all that man?   That's hard man real talk man. He didn't make me immortal now No, no, no, he did your thing you did your thing on that man.  Yeah, man. I think that's I think I know how to kiss some Shout to them boys 85 South man. I mean, hey, that's a blessing even being there Say man, so, uh, man, just uh, man, just like I said, keep doing what you're doing man. Um, so, um I know that you've been moving in a different avenue. So What else do we you can we expect coming from you in the next? I want to say by the end of 2023 What all can we look forward to because I know I heard you telling him some news I don't know if you wanted to put that news out or not Which was about I have a lot of news Was it had to do with a gallery or something Right now it's too early. It's too early. It's it's it's you know what I'm saying but hey That's a big idea. I've been holding on to that one. I'm just waiting for everything to Come to fruition come to fruition on that one. Okay, man. Because I don't want to put it out there and people chatting and seeing Okay, man, that's big. That's gonna be that's gonna be that's gonna be huge news. That's gonna be huge huge huge That's gonna be that's gonna be that's gonna be but you know when I drop that News it got to be it got to be done at boss talk I gotta let boss talk because no because when I want to when we do it. I want to have it to where it's Okay, we got it already set up. Can we expect that this year or is it for next year? I hopefully this year hopefully this year. Okay, because I didn't know exactly Man y'all the text is man. I keep saying I want y'all to feel that. Yeah But um, also also the way how things are going um, uh The way I'm gonna be doing more directing and I'm gonna be working more with uh, you know I'm doing more with vehicles, especially you see carlos vehicles dunk master You know all the old school cars that carlos have and don't master. Yeah, I mean sage thomas my guy Yeah, I'm learning a lot being around a lot being around them. You know what I mean? Maybe A lot by cars He'll be here in april big dog. So yeah, we got a date and he's going down You're buying your car when you get in your old school old school.  I told them if he can't drive all them cars all leaks every work He's like no, they ain't not if they said they're gonna leave. Hell nah You got to practice cars. I'm talking about going up. You know what I mean? You got your you got yard working on them. You know what I mean? You got you know Shout out dunk master. You also have in and out customs.  It's huge.  Like we seen that somewhere You cam god be shooting with the cars with carlos, right? I was like, yeah, they were like dunk master It was a female that said that and I she was gonna know it She was like dunk master and I was like, dang they really looking hard to see your tattoos and all that They see it. I mean, yeah, that's what he got them for. So if you're trying to, you know, let everybody see what it is You know, you Man, no, thank you for coming on the show man. Hey man, how can people get a hold to if they try to reach out?   Maker Y'all got to say why go on first why Man, it's been another great segment a boss talk one on one with a boss's talk and way out big boss


Hello, everyone, and welcome to a new episode of People's Health Dispatch. Today, we are here to talk a bit more about the recently concluded International Day of Safe Abortion and to focus especially on Argentina. So in 2020, as many will know, the feminist movement in Argentina had a landmark victory because abortion was legalized by the National Congress then. And so thanks to this piece of legislation, hundreds of women in Argentina were granted access to safe care, which they didn't have before. And compared to decades when about half a million abortions were carried out in clandestine conditions per year. So today, we are joined by Pablo Ralf, who is a family physician at primary health care level. And we are going to talk to him a bit more about what the 2020 victory meant in practice and what lies ahead. So hi, Pablo, and welcome to People's Health Dispatch. Hi there, hi to everyone. So just to come back to go back a step, a couple of days ago, so on 28 of September, we marked the International Day of Safe Abortion. And so feminists in Argentina also took part in these global actions. Can you maybe tell me a bit more what happened around that day and especially why is participating in the global movement important for Argentinian feminists and health activists? Well, first of all, I have to clarify that I'll be speaking on behalf of health care workers. Obviously, I can't speak on behalf of the feminist movement. So I apologize for that. The 28th of September is an important day for Argentina. It has been so since the 1990s since it came about. It commemorates a very special date for both Latin America and Argentina. It's allowed civil society at large and the feminist movement as a flag bearer for the right for abortion to be able to try and put abortion on the public agenda, which it finally was able to do so. And ever since abortion's legalization, it serves as a date to it serves as a time reminder that even though abortion is legal, access to abortion is a different situation. The fact that it has been legalized doesn't necessarily mean that widespread access is available. So it serves as a date to be able to come up with a balance in terms of the goals that have been achieved and the challenges that lie ahead. And in that sense, both are very present in Argentina. A lot has been achieved since abortion has been legalized. Access has improved significantly in many provinces, but still there are many obstacles that lie ahead. A lot of challenges that still need to be addressed. So it serves in that sense. This year in particular, the 28th of September was also very important because it allowed the abortion movement at large to be able to celebrate that a doctor in the province of Salta, who had been legally processed for providing a legal abortion, was finally acquitted. Her case was dismissed in what was a clear case of persecution from conservative sectors from the judicial sector and the health sector. So that was a big victory for the abortion movement and for the feminist movement specifically. And in terms of how the 20th of September fits into the global context, I think Argentina's abortion movement and the feminist movement in the country has grown a lot thanks to the global abortion movement, the regional abortion movement. So it's always been an important source of inspiration, of information, of experiences, et cetera, for the feminist movement. And since Argentina has become one of the few countries in Latin America to fully legalize abortion, our experience has in turn helped to improve and to strengthen and to bolster the demand for legal abortion and the rest of the world. And of course, so you mentioned that you will be speaking as a health worker primarily. So I was wondering, we did receive the 2020 in Argentina as a very big victory for women and for the feminist movement. So I was wondering, from the perspective of physicians and of other health workers, what has changed since 2020? So what have been the biggest changes that you have seen in your work? And did it actually lead to an improvement in practice? To answer the question, we need to put things into context. I speak as a health worker in the city of Buenos Aires, which is the richest city in the country. I speak as a worker in the public health sector. And in terms of guaranteeing rights and in terms of challenging and trying to improve access barriers for patients in general and for women specifically, the public health sector in Argentina is a lot stronger than the other health sectors. So I'm very privileged in that sense. So whatever I can tell as my experience is not necessarily is definitely not the experience that someone in the province of Hukui could tell you about or the province of Andorza, for example, which are very conservative, Catholic provinces where all of these issues, religion, conservatism, et cetera intersect with the right to health and with the right to access to abortion practices and services. So in my day to day, what has changed is that not necessarily for myself, because I have been working towards guaranteeing abortion access before abortion was fully legalized. Abortion was legal in certain circumstances. And me and the team that I work with work to help women have access to abortion via those legal permissions. But on a day to day basis, it's become a lot more simple. A lot of women who previously hadn't approached the clinic for abortion services now do so because friends have told them about it because of word of the mouth to mouth, basically. And because women, thanks to social media and thanks to the campaigning of the abortion movement, have realized that the problem, which is an unwanted pregnancy, now has a solution. And it's their right to be able to solve it via the health sector. So that's improved drastically. I think a very important issue for Argentina was that, as I say, abortion wasn't fully illegal. There were a lot of not loopholes, but ways in which health care professionals could help women to access abortion services via a comprehensive understanding of the legal framework, which was restrictive, but which allowed women to access abortion. But it was very tiresome. It was very difficult. One had to spend a lot of time to be able to justify why a woman had a right to an abortion in that situation. And that's not the case anymore. The focus is now strictly on a woman's desire to solve a health issue irrespective of what's happening in her life. And it's no longer the onus isn't on us to be able to justify before the law where the woman has a right to access abortion or not. So that's changed a lot. Abortion becoming legal has improved access also because a lot of health care professionals who previously were reluctant to offer services because they were worried about the possible repercussions professionally and legally aren't worried about that anymore. So a lot of professionals have started offering services who previously weren't offering it. And a very important aspect of the law is that it applies to the entire health system. So a lot of women who didn't have access to the public health sector because they had other health coverages, women who speak to the majority of the population and more so in Buenos Aires, which is a rich city. So I would say around 60, 70% of the women in a reproductive period of their lives, if they had that problem, very few would access the public health sector and would generally access health care abortion but in a clandestine manner. And now the health insurance plans have the obligation to be able to offer other services. And that has been slow, but it's been progressive. And as far as we can see, it's definitely taking form. So that access that road towards abortion access is definitely material life, which is very interesting to see. But then on the other hand, it's probably not perfect. That's my educated guess. So can we maybe spend some time talking about the obstacles that are still in the way in which you face or that women can face when they try to access abortion? Argentina is a federal country. So much like, for example, the United States, a federal law isn't necessarily applicable in each state or province in the case of Argentina. We have 24 different provinces. And it's a very different scenario here in the city of Buenos Aires, which is a lot more progressive, cosmopolitan, which has a long tradition of health care workers fighting for the rights of patients and the feminist movement fighting for the right for abortion, compared to other provinces, which are more conservative, which have a much stronger Catholic population, which have a much weaker public health sector, and where all of those things intertwine and intersect, and they create a scenario where, even though you have a law which states that abortion is legal, that doesn't necessarily mean that a woman can easily access a primary care level or a professional or any health care worker who not only knows about the fact that abortion is now legal, but also knows how to offer that service, who has the medication available, who, if they have to refer women to the second or tertiary level, has those networks available. And this is talking about putting the focus on the health care system, obviously, from a cultural perspective. A lot more conservative societies in these provinces tend to make a general understanding of society that abortion is now legal, and producing those transformations in terms of how people perceive abortion as a right and no longer a very big social taboo are a lot slower than in the city of Buenos Aires or in other provinces, the province of Santa Fe or the province of Buenos Aires, which are, by and large, big urban provinces. So the big disparities in terms of access to abortion still, they are being addressed, but they still exist. And we can't talk about obstacles and challenges without talking about the counter movement, which, like in the rest of the world, is definitely present in Argentina. It's very strong. It lobbies in different sectors of society, in the judiciary, in the health sector, in the media, and its effects are there to see. The cultural debate is still well and alive. We have achieved a big victory in terms of the abortion movement, thanks to the feminist movement definitely, but the debate hasn't been closed. It's still there. And I would say that's the biggest issue, because that permeates towards how the judiciary reacts to abortion demands, that permeates towards how a nurse receives the demand for an abortion from someone in a small clinic in a conservative province. The day that changes, things are going to change, but that's still a big challenge. OK, and finally, of course, the success of the feminist movement in Argentina was quite an inspiration for many other movements in the world. And I was wondering from your point of view, what do you think is the biggest lesson or the takeaway that we can take from the experience of the struggle for abortion care in Argentina? I think that what the feminist movement has achieved here in Argentina, although it has become a progressively circular and more democratic society, is still a Catholic country and has deep rooted conservative beliefs in the majority of society. I would say that there are two things. One has been the way that the feminist movement has achieved converting a very specific demand, which originally was of the feminist movement, in a public demand, society at large demanding access to abortion as part of the democratic platform. If we consider ourselves to be a democratic society, a just society, then just like women should have access to divorce, men should have access to different rights, social and economic rights, then women should have access to decide over their own bodies, not from an individual perspective, but from a more collective perspective. I think that's definitely be put on the agenda by the feminist movement. And we've seen that transformation. I've seen it as a white male health care professional and hats off to the feminist movement for that. That's one of the main things that's happened in Argentina, which doesn't necessarily happen in other countries, so that's one of the takeaways. And then the other thing that has happened in Argentina, which has inspired many other countries in the region, and I would dare to say many other countries in the world, has been the way that the feminist movement has been able to not only foster, but also embrace a generational change. The new generations, which don't bring the same demands that second and third wave feminism had, but they bring new feminist demands.  They incorporate all sorts of other demands that weren't on the feminist agenda 10 or 15 years back. And the feminist movement has been able to transform itself. It has been able to refresh its agenda and be more in tune with what society needs. And that generational change, which are seen in the Nounamenos movement, which started in 2015, which was one of the main starting points for the turning points for when one can see when abortion finally got on the public agenda and when one could see that the tide had turned in terms of whether abortion was going to be legalized or not. That was definitely one of the turning points for Argentine society at large. And that was definitely thanks to the feminist movement. And I would say that's one of the most specific takeaways from Argentina. Thank you so much, Pablo. Thanks to you.


So welcome back, we're here with Gus Selig from VHCB on age 232 and this is, while it says it's an act relating to promoting land and home ownership and economic opportunity. Gus this bill very much affects the board makeup of VHCB and also asks that VHCB enlarge their scope of mission beyond what's already in statute. So I just wanted to have you address it from this perspective for all the years that I've done housing in this building. I've not really been asked to look at the board makeup of VHCB and it's kind of a, it's not unique but VHCB is a creation of the government and it's not totally independent of the government. So I just, if you could just give us a little bit of history background and your thoughts on, on what's in this bill and what it means to VHCB that would be great. Okay, well, I will do that so for the record I'm Gus Selig I'm the director for the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board. And I'm long in the tooth I was, I've been, I was the first employee hired. And it is a pleasure always to be with this committee and to talk about our work. And I think what this bill. Let me just start by saying I want to thank Representative Sims and Dolan and Blumly, who've been engaged with us talking about the drafts before they were introduced and we really appreciate the back and forth and the opportunity to exchange ideas. Very briefly, let me start by saying that we support the goals of age 232 we have some questions and concerns will have suggestions and clarifications there are a couple of pieces of the bill that I think from our perspective maybe problematic. And let me also say that we are supportive we know that we're past crossover. So whether the bill passes this year or next, we will as the board, as the bill asks report to you in the in our next annual report on how we are doing. As that section of the bill requires, we have annual note, Mr Chairman, that when we submitted our annual report this year there was a letter inside the back cover that spoke to the deaths of Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd that we issued and that our board passed a resolution about. I'd like to talk before I dive into the specifics of the bill about the role of the board. And the work that our partners are doing in this area which has been going on for some time. And, but also why these issues are for me really important at a personal level. And, and, and from my perspective, you know, we have always talked in this committee about the work of the board being about transformation and this, the language is posed. I think just asks us to think about and enhance what transformation means. And I would also say to you and I'm sure you're dealing with this in many other ways with other legislation that that this is an issue that is ripe for Vermont to address on many fronts the governor has been challenging all of us. And, and really from the point he became governor and spoke with the housing and conservation coalition been clear about the need to change our demographics and to welcome people to the state, and, and I'll talk about that a bit. If I were in my office and just to start with a personal, and I ask you to indulge me for a minute, and I hope I don't get emotional about this. If I were in my office in Montpelier and I'm not today, and not most days above my desk sits the inner frame, the program from the 1963 March on Washington. And the program doesn't say that this is just a march for freedom it said, it was a march for jobs and freedom. And I think that Dr. King understood that without economic equality, voting rights, other rights were not going to be enough to bring people into the full promise of being Americans.  I'm not that old, though I know I look old. The movement was really at the center of our home life. My stepmother's dad was an associate of Roy Wilkins and actually served as the National Secretary of the NAACP my dad's work was as a labor organizer with the Union you now know as SEIU and he organized primarily African American and Hispanic people who did what we all know to be essential work today and call essential work as the people who worked as nurses aides and orderlies and cleaning staff and janitorial staff and food workers in hospitals and nursing homes and I think when I was 12 across New York City they want a major strike. And those the headline was that their salaries went from $80 a week to $100 a week. It was a very young age in an auto accident and and just really filled the Riverside church a large church in New York was overflowing that day with the folks that he had worked with my summer camp. Excuse me for this but music's important part of our lives. I'm sure representative Blumlee and maybe some of you know the music of Bernie Sreagan Johnson she took several summers away from the civil rights movement to, she's the founder of a group called sweet hunting in the rock to be the music counselor camp so our Passover saders were filled with the songs that she taught us at camp. I note that while we're in the midst of the trial dealing with George Floyd's death, I opened the Times Argus today to see that it's Holocaust Remembrance Day. And I know you've been working on the eugenics issue. My mom is a Hungarian immigrant who arrived here in August of 1939 as a six year old. I've only been to the Holocaust Museum. Once in my life I was in DC. It's a pretty heavy experience to go in there but there is this bin and in my memory, I was only there for a couple hours. It had been probably 10 by 15 feet just filled with shoes and they are the shoes of people who did not survive and you walk by it and you wonder were some of those shoes of cousins or aunts or uncles. And I would not be here today had she not gotten to this country that August and probably if it had been December or January three, four months later perhaps she would not have been here at all. The work that I've done at VHC before that at the organization that's known as Capstone has been at the center of and the follow up to what I think of as the civil rights movement expanding economic opportunity and access and fighting for inclusion for all folks. So, while this does expand our mission. Some years ago, you expanded our mission by David Dean when he was chair of Fish and Wildlife called me up one day and said, Can we make water quality part of your mission and I said to him, Gee, I always thought that it was. And he said, Well, can we make it explicit and I said of course. So, I see the need to do this as fundamental to not just our board but I think many boards and many organizations across the state. To just to add a little bit more perspective for me, my. When I first started a community action representative walls probably remembers a fellow named Ben Collins who was then the executive director he had been part of the Hoff administration. He was the secretary of civil and military affairs and when he left Governor Hoff's work as an direct employee became the director of the New York Vermont youth project. Those of you who know the history of that time know how controversial that project was a partnership between the governor and Mayor Lindsay and bringing inner city youth to Vermont. And some years later, I was working with the Vermont land trust when they received a gift of a farm in Reading and they turned it into they found a proposal and somebody wanted to operate it again for inner city youth. And in the early 90s, the same controversies and ugliness hit them. Those of you who saw the civil unions debate in our State House know how hard to debate that was. In 2007 or 2008, I recall reading a column just before the Barack Obama's election by Frank rich who was at one time the drama critic for the New York Times and it become an op-ed writer and he was talking about the song. South Pacific the musical and the song about the knee about how we need to be taught to hate. And we don't we're not born hating people. We are we are taught it and and so it's clear to me from all the events of the last year and from the reality that that we still have difficulty in Vermont that we have work to do on a policy level we have work to do to create better understanding of the challenges to open people's hearts and if we don't do that work, we won't be the welcoming state that we want to be and need to be for any number of reasons. So our work today I think has always we've always described our work as I said a moment ago about as being about transformation. The sponsor this bill of this bill are asking us to think about transformation in a broader and larger sense. I just want to note one other thing which I meant to say a moment ago one of the books I'm reading right now is a Isabel Wilkerson's book on cast. And you've probably discussed it I didn't listen to discussions about eugenics but I am just 8090 pages into it. I'm not surprised but of course horrified to read that two years after the Hitler was elected in Nazi Germany there was a he pulled together 17 bureaucrats to figure out how they were going to pass racial laws and where did they look but to So I know for some people that the question of these issues is a hard one to deal with but it is so ingrained in our culture that we have a lot of work to do to overcome a long legacy here to speak to the board's mission for a moment and to move away from the personal I view our work as about being about inclusion and about access you give us funding every year to provide access to housing and to land and and you ask us to focus on the people who are economically at at the bottom of the ladder and in fact some years ago Senator Lucy actually added to our statute asking us to focus on areas of the state that are of high unemployment and low per capita income And we know that people of color indigenous peoples have suffered economically so certainly that that is there as part of our statute in terms of our mission we are clearly a funder of projects and that's what we do with most of the funding you provide us We also provide technical assistance to our community partners we function we do research about various topics related to the mission so we are just getting a report on farm labor housing again a sector of our housing that is housing people of modest means and probably of much higher percentage of people of color we've we've and we function as a convener and we have for a number of years been bringing people our partners the nonprofits we work with regularly but others as well together around issues of power and privilege and diversity and equity and inclusion And there are a number of projects we've funded that that I think speak very much to these issues and they include fun having funded the Daisy Turner homestead in southern Vermont. They include supporting the Clemens farm working with the Vermont land trust on the Pine Island farm. I'm pleased to tell you that the Champlain housing trust has been hard at work on these issues for a number of years and I think they report what are their residents are persons of color. We're about we just funded what will be a new development in downtown when new ski home ownership development for 21 homeowners and they're working with the Association of Africans living in Vermont will do extensive outreach and work to have people of color from some of the homeowners there. So there's a lot of work going on we are convening both our housing and conservation partners on issues of diversity equity and inclusion we we are putting together three different sets of activities one will be workshops on issues like that we think block inclusion like using credit scoring to determine who gets into housing criminal background checks and I think CHT would tell you that as they have looked at who gets into their housing despite their good work despite the fact that 15% of their staff or people of color. They are reviewing their policies around using criminal background checks and using credit scoring because they turned down more people of color than they turned down people who are not. And so they know that they still have work to do despite their success. So there's a lot of good work going on on this issue, but we're at the beginning of a journey we are spending time with our own staff on these issues that are staff meetings representative Colston spoke to our board and our board retreat and we've done some follow up work there. So the time is absolutely right for for our statute. To get into the statute in particular, I guess what I would say to you that is that the two most important parts of the statute from my perspective is the is in section 322 the allocation system, where you ask us to expand access to low to land and home ownership to owners who've historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services including black indigenous and people of color. I think that that's very powerful and really important and then second in you in the annual report section of our legislation. You ask us specifically the or the proponents due to identity. Section five in the report is to identify and evaluate. Provide identification and evaluation of structural barriers that are contributing to racial at ethnic and economic disparities in housing and home ownership. And access to publicly supported open spaces actions that the board is taking to remove barriers and to increase equity and access to board supported programs and metrics to monitor progress in removing those disparities. I think, just as adding a few words that made explicit. That we should protect the surface waters of the state those things will have an enormous impact on us and by translation to our partners who will ask for more information. We've already in our annual grants asked everybody to report on these issues. No surprise the organizations that have the most resources, the largest organizations are way ahead and working hard on this. And it's very small organizations with staffs of two or three, you know report that they're doing all they can to obey the fair housing laws, and they need help. And that's why we're doing the convening and the workshops that we will be doing, but we're anticipating a speaker series. We've been talking with the Community Foundation, the Federal Home Loan Bank of Boston to financially help support that work. We will, we will get that kind of support along with a national affiliate we work with NeighborWorks America. And we're planning a leadership series where we will bring leaders together to talk about how this work can be done effectively so those are our short term plans for how to be involved in this. And we have some questions or issues about, I guess, you should hear from our conservation partners on section 325, which suggests that all of these events should provide for gathering for indigenous people. We, we are open to that as a suggestion, I think will be that there are already use agreements in place. It is better to put those things in something we call management plans rather than conservation easements themselves. And so that's something we should certainly take up and discuss in a future time. We also have a question in the definitions section and how the language proposed would play out. And what it says is what it does is creates a new category of housing projects eligible for funding and it says housing that serves for monitors who've historically suffered discrimination or unequal access to benefits and services including black indigenous and people of color. And our questions on that section go to the question of whether it is the proponents intent to make that housing available to such households, regardless of their income. Because at this point, only people who are below 100% of median as rental housing or 120% of median for homeowners are eligible for the housing so it's just, it's one of those things that is unclear. It's also unclear how we will define how this will be defined. So if you imagine a household applying for an apartment or someone trying to determine and document if they fall into this category. What does discrimination mean through history with certain nationalities those with disabilities are all just, we need to discuss that. So our most significant concern about the bill. Well, let me before I get into significant concern let me just also say to you. In terms of our, our board I should I should talk about the work that our board does. So you have a clear picture of it. And before I do that I just do want to tell you and you may have seen because there was a public announcement. We had an opening on the board and he has appointed Clarence Davis of Shelburne to the board. Those of you who know Clarence know that he has served on the Burlington City Council in a past life. He's worked in housing. And when Martha Maxim was ill, Governor Scott appointed him as the interim deputy secretary at the agency of human services. So we had a board that had a majority of women on it. And now we'll have a person of color also serving with us assuming the Senate confirms him. So that's the good news to give you a sense of the work of our board. And we are our board is currently 11 members we had been nine originally. We have four ex officios on our board and seven citizens. Three of the ex officios are members of the administration. They are the secretary of agriculture, secretary of natural resources and the secretary of human services. The fourth is the director of the housing finance agency. So three members of the governor's cabinet. There is a value to having any governor's cabinet, even if it's a governor that we're where we are not the favorite favorite program having that that interaction on our board for a variety of reasons. And one of them, I think is embedded in the great work from Anna's done around smart growth. So we have historically had people across agencies talking to each other and having to figure out what their differences are, and had a blend policy. We would build proposals that the secretary of human services no longer be on the board. I don't think we can support that. And I think at this particular moment in our history, as we try to get more than 2000 for monitors out of motels and into housing, and knowing that a large number of those people need services, the connection with the human services agency and having them at the table is is really important. The board is a working board. We meet usually six to seven times a year and have a board retreat as well. The board meetings because we try to move those that take place, not during the legislative session around the state usually take a full day. There's usually something in the order of a half day or more of prep time. There's also committee work. We deal with the issue of all boards and commissions and not which goes beyond the scope of age 232. One of the things I will tell you about getting more people who are represented on boards, whether it's our board, the housing finance agency, perhaps boards like the health care board or the human services board are different. Well, the health care board actually pays a salary the human services board I think pays just stipend in 1987 when I began this work, the stipend for somebody serving on a state board was $50. It is $50 3334 years later. That is a barrier for working people. It is a barrier for people of modest means so it's something I just suggest to you you need to consider. Our board is is a hard working board and one of the great things about it right now is that it is unusual for us to have less than nine or 10 members at a board meeting. They're very engaged. They're very active. My experience and in the training I've had about board development, the larger a board gets sometimes the less participation you get in a board. Not only do they review and approve most of the grants and loans that the board makes there. They are the keepers of policy. They're the keepers of the balance sheet. They have responsibility for supervising hiring and firing an executive director. They aid us greatly in strategic thinking, and they're a bridge because of the combination of citizen members and members of the cabinet. They are a bridge bridges for partnership. So, and they have helped us resolve, and I think we have helped them resolve conflicts among state agencies, just because that that dialogue goes on. I would also say to you that citizens end up being the backbone of the board in the early years, the ex officios all attended themselves in more recent years we get designees. And that's a little different when you have a staff person rather than a secretary or a commissioner. So the citizen members are really important to us. We need board members in general, who both bring expertise, but have an interest in things beyond their area of expertise. So if we get somebody who is only interested in natural resources. And we have a lot of discussion about housing. And we've put out of their minds and feel like they're wasting their time. And we've had that experience. We have had, and it would be true the other way around to if we have so. And it is what we need and what we've had most of the time have been really good problem solvers, good thinkers, broad perspectives. David Marvin, who some of you may know, he's the principal at Butternut Mountain Farm. Great forestry background. They bottle about half the maple syrup that's made in Vermont. He's a consulting forester, and he's a great community person and problem solver. And he gets our housing mission, as well as any housing expert, you are ever going to come across, and has a sensitivity from a Memorial County perspective. So, so that's, I think, what we need in a board. And I guess, so I would suggest to you that that our biggest problem with this with what's been proposed is losing the secretary human services as a member of the board. And I know we had a discussion with the proponents of the bill about expanding the board. I think the statute, the amendments as proposed. I think intentionally at a 12th member. We don't. We were happy to talk more about it, but I think just growing the board is not. We'll end up producing less engagement. We. The speaker of the house points to members of the board. President of the Senate, along with a committee of committees also appoints members and I think it's incumbent upon all of the appointing authorities and I think this should be in the bill. To consider people who will represent communities of color, represent people who've been marginalized on the board. And we will work with them on that.  Because I've been, I feel like I've been talking a long time is that we have to show up in your committee every year and in the appropriations committee and we will submit annual reports on the progress we make on these issues. And our statute has been amended sometimes in the appropriations bill. And so this is not the last discussion we'll have about how we should be accountable on this or any other set of issues with you. And, and we look forward to continuing to work with you to advance these issues, but, but those are our quick reactions, maybe not too quick to the bill as proposed. I'm happy to answer your questions. Representative clacky. Thank you chair and thank you guys. For all the great work you do. I wonder, Gus, if you have any aggregated baseline demographics of the loans, the money you've given out to the agencies, who, who has been served by that.  And we know that something like 25% of their rental residents are people of color. You know, if we have that data for all of our partners, we know that across the state, we're at about outside of Berlin at outside of the Champlain Housing Trust which with whom we've done half of our home ownership deals were at about 3% for persons of color. And that's why we've been engaged in this dialogue and education and learning. You know, on the farm side, one of the things are we are doing right now is working with a new group, the New England Farmers of Color Land Trust, as a service provider in our farm and forest viability program and in our farm land access work. And in the same way, you know, the Champlain Housing Trust has reached out and worked with the Alliance of Africans living in Vermont. We will need and I think our housing partners will need help. I don't know that we have built that kind of infrastructure in parts of the state outside of Chittenden County, and I can try to get you a more precise answer to your question about who's being served. But what I can tell you as a matter of income as opposed to as opposed to ethnicity or race is that in tax credit housing, something like 58% of the residents of tax credit housing, which we are a funder of, are people who are extremely low income and the that's like second or third highest in the country, maybe highest the last time we checked and way higher than most other states. So if if low income, extremely low income is a is one barometer of whether people have a background in that suggests that they are from a marginalized community we're probably doing pretty well but I do not have more precise numbers than that for you today and obviously when we report to you. In our next annual report we will try to give you more precise information. Do you have statistics on people with disabilities that have also been serviced through all of the money. I believe that we do. We've also done about what we call service supported housing. And so of the 13,000 homes and apartments that we have funded about 1400 arts. We are disabled people absolutely in all of our regular housing but so in addition to that. We have done projects all over the state. We help with the closing of the brand and training school. One example there are, there's, but they're all kinds of in your neck of the woods. There's one project that we did that is for people for adults with very significant mobility impairments and there. There's another project we did that's a partnership with the Howard Center for people struggling with persistent male illness. Lots of housing for frail elders. We've worked with most of the organizations that serve battered women in the state. So there is a long history of working with the disabled community. And as a matter of our standards, all of our housing needs to be accessible. We also run a program through the Vermont center of independent living that's that provides accessibility improvements to people who need ramps bathroom or kitchen modifications. Thank you. You know, I think that statistics of everything will help me to understand who has been left out. And as we, as we look into this bill the framework of, of who needs to be let in when we had our walk through with our legal council David hall he said that he urged us to be consistent with a number of individuals we are working on in terms of the kind of framework of, you know, who is this, what can you what impact of communities that we're trying to reach here. And so, you know, I just, I think that the more statistics as we have it'll be helpful to understand. Right. And that's why I said it. I know this bill is being considered after crossover and my first commitment is, though it likely won't pass this year that in our annual report, we will try to get you information more quickly than that. But we will utilize the proposed language for our annual report as a lever to say, when you come in next January will give you an extensive report on how we're working on all these issues but I'll try to get you more data sooner than that. Thank you so much. Thank you chair Stevens, you did touch on this Gus that there are certain criminal convictions that eliminate the possibility of section eight vouchers for housing. Now, I wasn't sure the context in which you presented it. Are we working to change that I mean for instance an assault conviction can eliminate you from a section eight housing voucher. It seemed unfair to me and in my work I had to work hard on a number of cases to try and get something done so that that would not happen to individual well I heavily on it obviously on a section eight voucher. I can't speak to and Jen may be able to help me about the rules around section eight vouchers we do a lot of housing that does not involve section eight and I'm just saying that most property management companies most property management. When you're screening tenants they use both credit scoring and criminal background as an issue and what I am telling you is that they don't necessarily have to eliminate somebody from consideration because of that but I think that those are issues. We have one organization that actually does not use credit scoring to qualify people for their housing down in southern Vermont. And I think there's more to be learned about that. And by the whole network about when do you put aside a low credit score and say we're going to take you in anyway and I think a similar question around criminal background is you know that we have a whole program across Vermont. Not in my expertise there's probably somebody on the committee that's more familiar about restorative justice. And so the fact that somebody once made a mistake shouldn't mean you can't ever rent an apartment again. I do want to say as we examine the issue of structural barriers, you know, and particularly as it pertains to home ownership. There are problems that go well beyond what the board can do. And so, you know, if a bank will not accept somebody for a mortgage, it doesn't matter if we're going to provide a subsidy. It just will not get through. So there are going to be structural barriers that we're going to uncover that go beyond what the board can do. But I do think that looking at those issues as two examples of why people do not get housed or what makes it harder or really important. Further questions for Gus or Jen. No, Gus, I thank you for coming in and thank you for sharing your, you have never come into our committee to share personal stories and I want to just acknowledge that you did and appreciate it. And that was, I was struck in the Holocaust Museum by the same, the same thing you saw the Holocaust Museum is so full of replicas. But when I turn the corner into the room where the shoes where you could smell them. And that was really that's that sense memory of, of was was just just just rocketed through my system so thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you. Committee will stop right here this is some as with most of our work this is not a simple little bill. No matter what the intent is behind it so we will pick up testimony on this next week as well. Some of the people mentioned where we have invitations out so we'll we'll follow up on this bill. Okay, and we will offer some language in a few places. If we can if that would be okay Mr Chairman. Absolutely. Yep. Committee let's let's finish here. And we are. I'm just trying to see what what our schedule is for this afternoon. We are back this afternoon to time permitting to walk through age 273. Which is a different take on some of the issues that we've talked about this morning. Thank you very much.