So, welcome to this session workshop about Debian ISE support and localized ISE support. My name is Michel Bank, I'm one of the hash Debian channel operators.  So a couple of people, Tim, Mibid. So I hope this is mostly like a discussion. I'd like to present first, shortly, generally, what we are doing in hash Debian and then present some ideas on how we can maybe converge or something for some other channels or, well, whatever comes out of this. So generally, we have to say that most of the Debian development channels are now on IRC Debian Arc, but on the other hand, the support is amazingly still distributed on both Free Note and OFTC. For example, the main hash Debian channel has twice the amount of people on Free Note than it has on OFTC. So not everybody has migrated and also a lot of the non-English channels that we're talking about are still on Free Note or on both. Back in the days, like a couple of years ago, sometimes there used to be objections to hash Debian and how people were treated or how people treated themselves or behaved themselves. I think it's much improved these days to the point of where we get several times a day people from hash Ubuntu who try to sneak up on support because they don't get as good support in Ubuntu. Well, we can't help them that much, but the thing is that we, as the people from the hash Debian channel, we don't really know what happens to people that we have to send off to other support channels because they don't speak English. So I'd like to present first a bit about my personal story. I've been on hash Debian for some time since I started being involved in Debian, mostly just for a couple of hours or days asking a question or trying to help a bit but then got overpowered by the traffic, several hundred people that makes a lot of traffic. But I mean, I was always a bit worried or say personally interested that DiRSC support that Debian does should be high quality and then people should actually get help. So at some point, when there was another discussion on the Debian devil mailing list, I think, about somebody getting kicked out of hash Debian, in the end it turned out that it was their fault. But I decided, okay, if I want to make a difference, I should actually get on the channel and then help. Just because I'm a Debian developer doesn't mean I can tell the regulars there immediately how they should behave. So I decided to just go there and to support myself. And after a couple of days or maybe weeks, I started getting like respect from the regulars and they noticed me and then I was becoming a regular myself. And after a couple of more months maybe, Don asked me whether I want to become a channel operator. So and that's been like, I don't know, three or maybe three years ago, I don't remember. And I tried to be, yeah, I tried to be involved and sometimes I'm more involved, sometimes less doing support and helping with moderating the channel. So basically if you're interested in doing it and if you're a Debian developer or if you're not a Debian developer, you're welcome to help during user support on hash Debian. So that's an important issue for Debian. A lot of people are requesting support. It's actually a pretty high quality thing, at least for regular questions. Of course we can't help if somebody has a very specific question, but maybe even then we can help. Yeah. So now, general, what sort of like guidelines have involved? I mean, that's more like my personal take on it, right? So, I mean, some other operators or regulars might have other opinions. But generally, we decided or it's been decided, like, certainly you can interrupt me if I'm wrong or so, if you think otherwise, that hash Debian is a support channel. It's not a social channel. So that means if, I mean, certainly saying hi and so it's okay and saying, hey, how are you doing? But if people start discussing what they did last night for more than a couple of minutes and we tell them, like, please go elsewhere, even if they're regulars, it's exclusively English language. So we don't tolerate people discussing things in Spanish, at least, well, if somebody has to be told, like, how to get to some other channel with Spanish language people, that might be okay. But if they start answering questions about Spanish stuff, then we also say, please go elsewhere. Yeah, as I said, being off topic is only tolerated for so much. Certainly we don't kick immediately people who are off topic, but if this goes on for a couple of minutes or lines, we ask them to please go elsewhere. There's the, I think there used to be the hash-hash-debian channel at some point on Freenote, and there's the hash-debian-ot channel. So it has to be said that a couple of regulars who were annoyed by being off topic wasn't supported, started to hang out there and not in hash-debian anymore. But I think that in the end, it's better for a channel. You have to make a clear cut. If you tolerate, like, off-topicness only from regulars, then it's really unfair, and it doesn't really help. Casting is allowed compared to other channels, like, if you say, like, for example, if you go in a hash-debian-to channel and you say, shit, why doesn't this work? You're immediately told to please drop that. So if somebody says, like, shit, it's not a problem on the channel unless they do it repeatedly for 100 times.   We try to help them, and we also say, if regulars get annoyed at them and say, like, you're so stupid, read the documentation, we say, like, please, back off, so we try to help the users, even if they're not the brightest or having trouble understanding. And we don't require real names. So if there's trouble, what are we doing? Basically, if there's an obvious spammer, they get removed pretty quickly. So if people just spamming the channel, we have an extra bot who kicks off people who paste more than three lines. And that usually also involves spammers, so they get told, please use a paste bin, that's for regular people.  So it's automatically kicked, but not kick banned, of course, so they can come back, but spammers are immediately also kicked.  We generally have this ops command thing, which is the bang factored thing. So we have this deep package bot on Hashtabin, which is pretty useful. It has a lot of knowledge about random stuff, like how to install NVIDIA, binary drivers on Debian, or which kernel version, or whatever. I mean, you name it. It's probably there. There's also a lot of weird stuff in there, but, okay, we try to clean it up if it's really offensive. Everybody can add factors there. And for example, the ops factored, like, highlights every channel operator who is in that list and with a reason, so they can draw attention to the channel and act if there's a problem. Yeah, in general, I think if people are really disruptive, we hope that, well, let's say, like, low-level spammers or trolls. We hope that the regulars can reason with them. So for example, they don't feed the troll. They just say, well, if you have a Debian question, please ask it. If not, either stay quiet or leave. And I think we're rather successful. For example, the Patty Frank troll is rather low-level on Hashtabin compared to HashtabinDE or HashtabinDevil. So that works for some amount. So if people are still disruptive, as I said, we have the ops command. We then, at least I do, still request those people to please behave properly. And only if they continue to be disruptive, they get a 10-minute timeout, which also, in my opinion, works really well. That means they're not kicked. They're just muted. So for 10 minutes, they can't talk to the channel. And a lot of trolls are really into getting kick-banned and then trying to prevent bans and stuff. So if you just mute them, that takes off their steam. And they might just leave. They might also insult you in private. But OK, that's part of the job. If that doesn't work after 10 minutes, they get kick-banned. But even then, there's two ways to get around that. Basically, what we're doing is don't irregularly clean up the ban list every couple of weeks. Or if it's a regular who gets kick-banned for whatever reason, or somebody who is thinking that they should genuinely be on the channel, then they can talk to us and then operate a channel. And usually, we ask them, why were you banned? Do you think that it was reasonable? What's the problem? And if they are reasonably considerate about their actions, then we just remove the ban. So that's about how Hash Debian works. So the question is now, what happens to people who cannot write English? Like, I don't know. Probably you can't really read that now. Sorry. It's just, yeah, sorry. So basically, it's a guy coming up called Coolmena. And he says, hola, el guien en español. And then, well, somebody invokes the E.S. factoid called Snae. And then they package says, well, I'm not a Spanish speaker. So he's bano a plantes. Por favor, join the BNES, ali obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish, and then in English again. Spanish speakers, please join Hash Debian dash E.S. There you will get much more help. So basically, we have a factoid for a couple of, or most, languages in the native language and in English telling them to go there instead of being on Hash Debian talking non-English. So they get invoked. Couple of times, maybe, if the people don't react.  I mean, we have a considerable amount of people just seeming to randomly say something and not really interested in going elsewhere. But okay, we try to be reasonable and then we remind them that the channel is English only. We try to tell them, like, join Hash Debian E.S. And if that doesn't work, we have to mute them for a while because as I said, we don't troll await non-English. And at some point, well, we kick-band them or whatever. Hope that they go to the other place. Is there any questions so far? Sometimes too, we'll drop in a band forwarding for somebody who, it doesn't seem to be able to go to the proper channel. A band forward. Yes, so. Okay, yeah, right. So when they try to rejoin again, they'll get forwarded to what the channel that we assume is the appropriate channel for them to be in. It just depends on who's doing it and what they're doing. Well, yeah, that's pretty useful except I don't know how to do it. You should teach me about it next time. It may be, but we get Portuguese, German, Italian, French, Russian. Yeah, certainly, yes, yes. I mean, I think Portuguese or Brazilian, Portuguese and Spanish are probably the most because let's say most German speakers, for example, seem to be able to understand it in English. There seem to be more problems or like more occurrences of Spanish or Portuguese people who apparently don't understand English at all. And so yeah, probably, it's a bit hard to say. I mean, but certainly, well, actually I think, yeah, right. So, damn, well, I had to fit on, well, I can summarize it. So I did some research on all the different channels so I checked the D-Package database. So in the first column, you see the factoid that we are invoking. In the second one is appropriately the language. And the third one is a channel that we're telling them to go. And the crosses there is whether the factoid says that they should go on ISC, ISCOFTC.NET or ISCFreeNOTE.NET because as I said, support is in both networks. And then you have the people actually in those channels in OFTC and FreeNOTE. And then some remarks. So the first line is English, Hashtabian. And as you can see, there's right now, there's 900 people in Hashtabian on FreeNOTE whereas there's only like 380 in OFTC. And okay, so the second one is German which is the most abundant. And actually there, the factoid says go either OFTC or FreeNOTE. And it's about 140 each. That's the biggest non-English language channel I could find so far. I could have easily missed some. And the next ones are French, Spanish and Italian with about roughly like 6,200. If there's a parenthesis, well, I'll put up the slides later on if you want so you can check it out. But if there's a parenthesis, that means it's especially on FreeNOTE, it means that if you go to that channel like Hashtabian-FR, you get auto-forwarded to another channel. I think in this case it's HashtabianFR and there's 110 people in there. So more than on OFTC, even though the factoid talks about OFTC for example. So there's a couple of things. I mean, I didn't just wind there and gather the statistics so I haven't fixed up stuff yet. But there's certainly a couple of things where there's glaring omissions like, well, Russian seems to be okay. But for example, there's some channels which are really much more on FreeNOTE than on OFTC. So the factoid should probably say, well, you should go to FreeNOTE. Because, oh yeah, I forgot. So the factoid database is for both networks. It's the same database. So we can't just invoke one factoid on FreeNOTE and the other one on OFTC. So that's why I'm saying it might be a problem. Somebody on OFTC asked about Italian support and they just get told to get to Hashtabian-IT. So there's only like 18 people on OFTC, whereas there's about like 60 on FreeNOTE. So, and we don't specifically say to go to FreeNOTE. And actually what also is what surprised me a bit is that apart from those major languages, maybe Russian as well, everything else is rather low level. So even Danish, Polish, Portuguese, even I was surprised that there's so few, and Hashtabian-BRS, so few people. Maybe there's another one somewhere, which we don't know about. But from the amount of people who are speaking Brazilian coming on our channel, I assume that the Brazilian IRC community would be much bigger, there's only 20 people on both networks. So that was a bit surprising. Of course, there's also Portuguese, but there's only two people. And there's a lot of channels which are like virtually empty. So that's also a bit of a problem. If you tell them that go to the Greek channel, there's some Greek speaking person and they tell, well, go to the Greek channel and it turns out there's only like five people there. It might take hours to actually get their issue addressed and usually users give up after a couple of minutes because they're not like regular users, they're not adjusted to hanging around in a channel for hours waiting for an answer. I mean, I know it, having been on IRC for quite a couple of years, if you go to some low level channel, you have to hang around for a couple of hours. But of course, the users might not figure that out and they just leave after 10 minutes. So the probability of them getting any support in hash, Debbie and GR, for example, is rather low, I guess. So yeah, and then at the bottom, also a bit surprising is that, for example, for Norway and Belgium, there's no people at all. And maybe that's also a bit of a problem because actually the factoid is not a two-letter factoid. So if people asking about Norwegian, we wouldn't, there is no NO factoid, I think. As far as I can tell, it's like Debbie and NO or something, somebody who set it up. And the regulars wouldn't figure it out. I mean, they would just say, well, sorry, no NO factoid, bad luck, and can't tell them anything. So maybe that's also why people don't get forward there. I don't know, but anyway, it's no people in there. So there's a couple of channels also, which we forward to, which there's no people, like Debbie and Czech, Bulgarian, virtually nothing in Indonesia. There's three people in India, one of them being Bubule. So it's, actually I was really surprised that there's, in some areas, there's so few people. Okay, and just to summarize that a bit, now the question is, can we sort of like make this a bit more useful? Because as I said, we don't really know. If we send people to Bulgaria, to the Bulgarian channel, do they actually get help? Even if we send them to the French channel, do they actually get help?  They used to be, for example, singling out the French a bit, or I can also sing out maybe the Germans a bit, because that's the two channels I know in the French channel, and I don't remember which one it was, but there was a French support channel which had a bot, which automatically kicked people who said lol, they got kicked banned for saying lol. And that's really something which I'm not so comfortable with if I'm sending people there who want Debian support. So that's also something which we don't do in Hashtabian. So if somebody speaks really childish or really leads speak, well, we accept it to some degree. We might say, well, you know, it's not so great, but we accept it if they need help. So yeah, what could we do? I mean, maybe, I don't know whether a single coordinator or something is useful. Maybe I would like to, at this point, get some feedback, whether people of you think that it's an issue at all, or whether we should just keep on doing this, or what do people think? Is there any opinions yet? Is there any opinions on IRC maybe? There were two people. Raise your hands again, please, because, okay. Okay, so, do you hear me? Yeah. Okay. I have some ideas about IRC non-English support. So the first one is you have told about some Spanish people asking for, there is someone that is Spanish speaking, okay, that speaks Spanish.  So, I don't know if it can be done, but there could be an IRC bot that tracks IEP addresses from people, detect from which country they are, and they send private message to them, so that they say, you seem to be Spanish, please go to Debian-es, or whatever. This bot should have a way to communicate to it so that you can register yourself as an English user so that the next time you log in to Free Note or OFT, you are not asked once more again, you are not asked again to look into Debian-es. That's the first idea. So, the second idea is about, it's not quite related to IRC support, but it is related somehow. So, last year or two years ago, I met some Spanish KDE developers, so I asked them how did they develop, and what I learned is that they used English KDE, so they were using English KDE, and because they said that it was easier to them to report bugs, because everyone works with the English development version of KDE. So, in my opinion, this fact implies that they are less likely to be found, these Spanish developers, they are less likely to be found on a specific Spanish KDE channel. That might not be true, but I think it matters. Well, can I say something to that? Just a remark. So, one thing also you have to always keep in mind is that, as I said, Hash Debian is supposed to be a genuinely support channel, whereas we have a separate development channel and we have a separate social channel for developers or users, for English language. But on the other hand, I guess for a lot of these, even, I mean, I know for German, there's a development channel, but Hash Debian DE is also sort of a social channel, and maybe Hash Debian ES is like a support developer and a social channel, one in all. So, that's also something I have to keep in mind, that not every language specific channel is just a support channel, there might also be developers on it, or people talking socially. And certainly, it's a problem that... I mean, of course, even if developers are not there, I mean, support, you don't really need to be a developer. You can just be an advanced user to do support or just a regular user. Just saying that, yeah. Okay, so go on, please. So, finally, my first idea or whatever, in my own experience as a Spanish user, I know how to speak English quite well or well, and I sometimes try to make the question in the Spanish channel so that it is alive. And the most of the times, you don't get a quick answer, or if it's a very complicated, a very complex problem, you don't get an answer. So, then you try to answer the same question in English, in the English channel, English RBC channel, and you get a quite great answer. So, I'm not saying anything, it's just my experience in this field. So, as you... there's some work to be done to improve this non-English RBC support, indeed. So, that's it. Okay, thanks. Okay, I am a regular from Hashtabian.es in Freenote, also an off-TC network, and I can talk about the both channels. The channel Freenote has a lot of users, I think they never migrated to off-TC, and it's mostly a social channel, and there is technical related question, but the channel is more social than technical. I see that because I keep hanging up on that channel for a long time. And there is a problem with the other channel on off-TC network, there's not so much users, right now there's 27 people joining on the channels, and mostly of them, as I always do, are inactive, just been sitting there. Then when you guys from Hashtabian redirect users to the ES, they never get an answer, because there's nobody able to help there. Right, and actually I think that's one of the things that I'd like to address and so far as maybe it would be possible to have one person from the Spanish community being in contact and telling us, well, it doesn't make sense to send people to Freenote, you should update that factoid or so, or hey, we all moved somewhere else, and also maybe, or just really go to Freenote, and even if they don't really get help from Freenote, it's not a problem maybe to use a forum or a mailing list or something, because right now it's really like a black hole, right? So we send people like, okay, there's an English Spanish channel, let's send people there, but as I said, it might be just a social channel, it might be a development channel, and the questions might not be answered, so we should think, that's a good idea, thinking also non-ISC stuff, if they're not able to, I guess it's always the best if they're able to speak that channel, and if they understand the answer, that's probably best for them, but if they don't speak English, yeah. Yeah, maybe too, I mean the best thing would be for people who know exactly what the state is in each language to just take control of that factoid, I mean I know all these factoids, the actual bit in Spanish or in French or in Tagalog or whatever is actually written by somebody who knows what's going on, or new at some point in time, so it'd be best if somebody who is aware of what the support options were in each different community could fix it so that it's most appropriate for getting support for that community. Another idea that could be easy is to add in the factoid that you use to point the people to the right channel, add an Wiki site, you are pointing to a Wiki site, and every community has to go there and point if there is the IRC supports kind of that, they should point to a forum or mailing list or whatever. Okay, that's also a good idea. And also the Wiki will have mailing list pointers for the community for that language. Right, yeah. Another idea is make a notice in the mailing list, for example in Spanish there's a lot of people in the Debian Spanish Leash often make a lot of questions and try to get the same question, the same question, the same question. Maybe in the IRC channel in Spanish the question is very solved very fast. Maybe another idea is get in the bottom of each message and try to get help in the IRC Debian Spanish channel. If you actually get help in the IRC Spanish channel for that area. I mean something also we could think about is I think this deep package. I mean also of course I understand there is like at least for example there is a policy of no bots which is agreed upon by the regulars, but I think having like a semi-official bot which has this kind of knowledge because for example this deep package bot really has great knowledge. I mean it's getting regularly maintained by the regulars and there are experts in that so if you ever ask like how do I enable PHP on an Apache tool and you get help by that. Maybe we could also have language specific bots for that if somebody asks like a frequently asked question in Spanish and then maybe some people who know don't answer because it's just so much like they rather talk about other stuff but if it's just like three letters in a bot message and then the bot answers actually that might be lower the barrier to answering the questions. It could be something we could think about or it must be something that the particular community thinks about because of course building that knowledge for a while. And also what I thought about is whether it makes sense to have the deep package bot on non-English channels and sort of answer or like only have the English factoids but maybe that also makes sense for some Spanish people and then if they don't understand somebody can translate it maybe, I don't know whether that makes sense or not. Well hello, okay. Well this is one of the channel operators in Debian.es Debian.es in OFTC and well I don't want to focus this talk just on the Spanish channel because I think this is more general talk but well having I have some opinion on the status of the channel I could share with you all now or a little later but regarding the deep package topic I don't know what's the policy on bots in OFTC I suppose it's supported since the Dash Debian channel already has one the deep package and works quite well. I would like to have one of those in Debian.es because I think it's quite useful. We could talk about the implementation slowly The problem is actually the content I guess. There's several years of knowledge in the English Spanish speaking version so I see that reproducing everything in German or Spanish even if that's a major probably doesn't make sense for Greek at all. So the solution which is I think we can find some volunteers and start translating all those factoids giving them rights to do so and that as a start. One problem is if you look at the database there's like thousands of factoids like people made up because everybody it's not restricted so everybody can add a factoid and you can do it in private and you can do some auditing of those factoids. So just to tell somebody like translated there's so much noise say in a factoid that it's a bit difficult to just go that way. Maybe it's possible just to sort by a frequency of getting it addressed because obviously there is a couple of factoids which are like invoked all the time and if it's not something non-related to support then you can just translate those at the beginning or start from the top then it's maybe easier. It will take time surely but as a start we need one vote. So I think I don't want to focus the conversation on just this topic we can talk later but well another point is that what's I have a little more clear what's the issue with the free-node channels I don't consider them official and my point of view is that all those people who actually want support should move to OFTC Well I think every community has to decide for themselves so at least the hashtag and the regulars we decided to support both we understand that the official Debian network but we still think that hash Debian on free-node is also an official Debian channel so if people are talking at misbehaving or like disruptive I still think it's Debian's like not maybe reputation but it's sort of like reflex on Debian so I think at least hash Debian is official every community has to make up their minds for that and for example I haven't been in hash Debian DE on free-node for years so I don't know whether you have anything to say so I don't know there's certainly the same amount of people in hash Debian DE on free-node as on OFTC for the german speaking channel so I'm german but yeah it's unclear how the german community is doing but if you pay attention to the amount of people on each channel you can see that there's a big step from Debian from hash Debian to the rest of the channel so this implies that we have surely lack of resources so I don't feel that we could support both networks we could see on each language but I think on OFTC it's the best thing to do because from my point of view there's a lot of noise in the free-node channel especially on the Debian Spanish channel and well I don't mean those people to go the house and leave the channel but I think that we could control better or help better in the OFTC channel because it's still noise but it's nothing compared to the other and that's one of the points that I would like to start working on I started with the channel not much time ago maybe some months but we are not still covering all the time sounds because from the Spanish channel we have a problem because we have Spain the most of America so it's difficult focusing on both time sounds there's an Argentinian channel but I think it's much smaller than the Spanish one I don't know if there's any other I didn't find any other Latin American specific channels maybe there's one from Mexico for example just to point out that we saw it in my opinion for example we saw that once we shut down Hashtab in devil and everybody moved to OFTC I thought that the noise was also going up it was much better signal to noise ratio before I don't want to concentrate on that it's a whole other issue but you always have to keep in mind if you shut down one channel it could be that a lot of people want to see and then it's really hard to police or not to police but to moderate so what you could maybe do is just keep the free note channel as a really social channel and tell every user even those who ask in Hashtab that support is only done in OFTC and split it up a bit like that and people who are interested in social issues or socializing I guess they are able enough to join a free note for that and use both networks if they want to and I think that's a good question about the development status I think as you have told before that those channels are specifically focused for user support and maybe we could have some links with developers and if we come across with some development question we could forward them the issue but well they should stay user support in my humble opinion and well surely there may be difficult questions and we are not able to address them well that's life so there's always questions in Hashtab that you can answer sure it's the best effort thing if you really need an answer you should pay for support somewhere I guess because for example Hashtab is both a development and a social channel at this point and for example I just talked to Jordy yesterday so the Catalan channel there's only five people on it but they have a development social and user support if any users are actually there so that's a bit of a problem well so I just want to go through some of these ideas that I had and maybe we can discuss them then so as I said maybe a single coordinator for all this stuff is a bit overblown I don't know if people think it's something we could do I think I feel sort of responsible a bit as a Hashtab channel operator that user support in non-English channels is like functional or at least people are get redirected to the proper forum something which I haven't actually thought about so I said if there's no Greek ISC channel then they should maybe ask the Greek user support list if there's any or at least the Greek maybe there's a web forum or something where they can ask for help in Greek what we could have as I said what would be really nice is have maybe a Debian developer or like a regular and a well-known person of that language who feels responsible as a contact to the Hashtabian operators not to blame or feel responsible but just as a contact if there's trouble so we can work it out because the other thing of course is if somebody says well I don't get help in Hashtabian FR or something or in Hashtabian DE I can't just go there and say hey hey I'm from Hashtabian so please report or something it would be much better if somebody we know somebody who obviously speaks English we could have as a contact for maybe some of the channel operators for example I already speak but maybe for sake of neutrality it makes sense to have somebody else from Hashtabian DE being that contact person we have to figure that out so that would be one possibility that they are a contact person in case of problems or they also maintain update the factoid I thought about having maybe a Hashtabian internationalization support or localization but I'm always confused so whatever is more appropriate channel for some coordination I don't know what that makes a lot of sense because it might be really low traffic but maybe it's a good thing I mean people don't like to join another channel but we could try maybe whether it works out as I said maintain a wiki there was already the idea of having a wiki list for every language area that makes also a lot of sense maybe there is already some sort of something that I don't know whether Debian has really addressed as a project like local support I know that Ubuntu did it pretty early on having local teams but Debian hasn't so much stepped up maybe I don't know maybe I'm just missing it I haven't really checked before I have to admit and also something which we should do like what I did now is periodically check for defunct channels so there is I think this Indonesian channel I remember a couple of months ago a person who seemed to be really active or really enthusiastic about Indonesian support and then they put the factoid in and made it aware but it's empty there's nobody there maybe now it's somebody these numbers there from like 36 hours ago and I haven't really updated them yet so certainly there's some amount but if there's nobody there 36 hours ago that means that at least at some point it's just empty so it doesn't make sense to have a factoid for that channel I guess yeah and the other thing that I like to suggest but which is a bit more of a controversial thing is having like shared guidelines shared guidelines sort of like what I said before like if it's a support channel it should be just support and no social stuff figuring out what is off topic actually I haven't talked about that before so what is off topic and hashtag being is anything which is non-debian distribution like even Knopix is mostly off topic Ubuntu is off topic so if people from Hash Ubuntu come to us because they don't get help in Hash Ubuntu we just can't I mean we figured out with the regulars that Hash Debian only does Debian support it's I mean they're doing it on their free time and it's not our responsibility and it's just so to say we said okay we don't do Ubuntu support and it also makes a lot of sense because the Ubuntu packages are frequently different they are using different libraries and the kernel is totally different so we can't really support it because I mean of course and always people say well it's the same thing like Apache is the same but we just say okay we can't support that so that is off topic and yeah also programming questions are off topic special weird hardware questions are off topic and we just tell people to go to the appropriate channel and I don't know whether it makes sense to have like some shared guidelines or at least baseline that says okay Debian is not doing any Ubuntu support in all the channels or so people can have some expectations because also I mean if people go to Hash Debian and they get helped or they get then or say we support people who seem to be a bit slow or not even if they didn't read the documentation yet or didn't Google it we try to help them in Hash Debian but if we refer them to say Hash Debian whatever and there they say well fucking Google it and get a kick ban or something then it's not very consistent so I'm not sure I mean I agree that it's different it's a heavy issue or something well maybe we could talk to these areas or these localized channels and then agree on some basic guidelines like not kick banning people immediately or trying to be reasonable with these or having also like a policy of first muting them or something like that yeah that's what I also want to talk I don't know whether there's any opinion about that mostly Spanish people no oh yes please I have some sort of idea it has nothing to do with what you have just talked about but you know when we request for Debian for people to help Debian we say you don't have to to know programming skills to be a computer geek in order to help you can translate you know menu strings you can design new images for Debian logo whatever what about IRC support translators so that if a question does not get answered in Spanish channel in 20 minutes someone offers the guy who asked the question so that he translates the question and asks it at oh that's an interesting idea I am I haven't been I do not frequent so much Debian dash so I do not know if this happens right now or if it does not happen yeah right it's also a bit difficult for me because hash Debian DE is rather big and usually people get I mean there's a lot of knowledgeable people in there so they get help so that's certainly something that we could think about of course then again it needs somebody who in a reasonable amount of time reacts to that question forward to it and certainly I also think that it's one of the things that we could as I guess yesterday a couple of talks about how you can help Debian and even if you don't program or do packaging you can still help Debian a lot by doing user support okay I believe I think that there might be some Spanish talking people in the Spanish channel and maybe from the other support channel in our language that might see this on video later so they should actually join to the channels and just sit there because I try to promote the channel every time I have the opportunity sorry the hash Debian ES which one? hash Debian ES and I believe that will work for another people for another language because I once sat for a while trying to learn Portuguese in Debian VR but there was no talking so I didn't learn anything and the other thing is that maybe we should talk with the people from the of the network because at least in hash Debian ES channel there are frequently but some people that are just behavior badly and we don't have any channel operators at this not active the question is that on Debian ES they are channel operators but well thank you most of the time we are not paying attention so just an invocation I'm also working towards that because the people who's already channel operators or master they don't have time to take care of the channel and as I told before I started organizing that there's still a lot of work to do because we are not much of us and most of the time we're working we're doing whatever and also there's a time zone so we're not paying attention to people who's talking on the American time zones so I can't do anything and well there are volunteers who will get in operator rights I hope soon and I expect that they will act soon but the main problem on Debian ES sorry oh that's it sorry and the main problem on the channel is most people are silent most of the time there's not much people and that implies that there's not much people knowing the answer so I think the channel is useful but it is still low I think it is it used to be but it's still low but we can compare in any way with the main Das Debian because the knowledge and the people I just want to suggest something because certainly I just want to say that it's really this bang ops command in hash Debian is really helpful because for example I have a secondary C client when I'm working and it's just ignoring everything in hash Debian except messages to myself which is usually when somebody invokes the ops command and then I just go on the channel and review and operate it but I'm not having to follow it all the time because if you have to follow a channel all the time so in order to step in if there's trouble that's really difficult but if you're able to just act on somebody saying well this is wrong then you have like a shared attention to it and then not all the operators have to think about it all the time except if there's really trouble if they have anything else to do I mean of course if they have time it's nice if they can follow a channel but sometimes they can so this special ops command is rather useful and the other thing I wanted to say is that also when we moved IRC Debian orc it has to be said that hash Debian before was very much empty as well before IRC Debian pointed to it and there was sort of like an issue what to do about the channel operators and we sort of said ok people who are operators and free nodes should also be operators and OVTC but maybe also Debian should have a I mean I haven't addresses at all but like how to become a channel operator who decides if there's some trouble on some language channel about there's some operators who go AWOL or who go thinking that they should enforce their own policies which might not be in line with what the project wants as support if we want anything then who is going to arbitrate that as the DPL is there somebody responsible for IRC channel operators or something we have to think about maybe and I don't really have a good answer to that but that's also something I wanted to say right so it's is there any please you mentioned to translate the factoids that would be very useful for people that speak other languages different to English package or somebody package the data somebody would translate or put that in a repost I think if we do that we have to preprocess everything I mean right now it's a SQL database or something right so we can certainly get the data out but we should present it somewhere in a way that's appropriate as I said maybe in terms of the fact that being invoked so then we should filter out the ops factor for example or the DE factor all the language specific stuff but then maybe NVIDIA as a factor would be number one and you can translate at first and then something like quote of the day 317 can be left out it's not invoked all the time as I said there's a lot of noise but if we go from there and then have some translation framework maybe and put it back in I don't know we should that's certainly something we should think about just the question is how to discuss it afterwards there is no real maybe we can discuss it on debian project maybe I should write it up after debconf or something and invite people to work with Don or people who are doing it to set it up and then announce it and stuff and then maybe also like there were certainly a couple of really good ideas how to improve stuff and trying to converge on something so it gets a bit better for everybody I mean also it could be that it's just working well and there's no big problems I mean yeah so is there any more questions anything else to discuss any input nothing from ISC I think no except for lunch well I think thanks everybody for participating and yeah we try to keep in touch and figuring out how we can do it a bit better thanks a lot


It is the continuation of our previous relationship to the price indexes. So, consumer preference for price indexes way we have measured with the help of partial index and now the second is the less pure index. So, less pure index is again it was developed by a German economist and its name was given on the name of that German economist and in this index mostly we are going to utilize the quantity of the commodity from the base period. And when it is developed from the quantity index that the previously developed now what we are going to take that in the quantity index these quantities were explained and these all quantities are now substituted with the particular commodities quantity at the base period. So, in less pure index when we take this all the commodities quantities they will be expressed with the notation of B means base period and as we have explained in the form of partial index that consumer is not only utilizing two commodities rather he is utilizing a series of commodity. So, when there is a basket of goods might be consumer is having 10 commodities or the 15 and he want to compare over various time periods. So, then he will be able to compare when we take that in numerator we will take the sum of all the commodities that are at base period and we will multiply with all these quantities with their respective prices of current time. So, in summation I can say that it is the summation of all the commodities prices of time period t with their commodities quantity at time period B. So, divided by all the sum of the prices at time period B multiplied by their respective commodities quantity at the time period B. So, the numerator will be the expenditure on all the items at the current time period t as compared to their respective base period. So, when less pure index is greater than one or it is less than one what does it mean to the consumer we will explain in the next slide. Here we are going to say that this index is also having certain merits and demerits when we say the advantages we say that this is very easy to calculate and it is cheap because in this all the factors that we are going to construct the quantities of base period are here and that quantities data have already been collected over the years and quantities for the future they are not needed to be calculated here. So, here its calculation it gives us a very meaningful comparison of the index that is attributable only with the change in the prices. But the certain disadvantages that it have that over the time from the base period to the current there is a possibility that due to the utilization of technology various features have been added in the same commodity or there may be the change in the quality of that parameter or at the same time there can be possibility that the consumer from the base period to the current period has changed its preferences or he is able to substitute certain commodities of with relatively cheaper features but now that commodity that he has substituted is having more features. We can take this example as such that when a mobile phone came in the market 20 years ago, it had very few added features but its value if we look at it today then it was somewhere more over the time of 5 years and again 10 years like this we can say now that one mobile is having many added features so the same mobile which is 20 years ago at that time was 3000, if we compare it to today then that cannot be compared because today's mobile has a lot of added features and we get the same added features cheaper today. When we want to utilize this index in real life it is not possible to explain because in numerator or denominator the prices that are being used are being used at different levels. So that difference of prices is not possible for us to make it easy for us to include expenditure index in one of these and in expenditure index in numerator all the commodities of which the price and quantity will be of all the current time and the denominator in which the price and quantity is all the time will be of base period. So we will utilize this in our calculations so if less than one we will say less than index is less than our expenditure index and keeping in view this equation we will now cross multiply our this equation and when we cross multiply our this part of denominator it moves here and this part of denominator it moves here and this upper left side numerator it is going to be cancelled out with the other side and we see that now on the left side we are having all the expenditure of the commodities at the base period and on the right side we are having the all the commodities quantity of the current but in the prices of the base period and we can say that the consumer he is better off in time period t than in the year b. Now if we do these two examples then in front of us we can see that in partial and in last period there is some deficiency in some one and some plus over the time we have now come to know that the partial index and the last period index they are having certain advantages and at the same time certain it is the advantage to overcome this scenario economists have developed a new price index that is called Fisher price index and this Fisher price index incorporates the effect of both indexes in the form that it is the weighted average of the partial price index and the last period price or we can say that the consumer is having the 50% effect from this and this so economists utilize both price indexes and then take the weighted average of these two indexes and explain them in the weighted average form in the shape of Fisher pricing. Thank you.


June 13th, everybody, happy, happy day from sunny Florida. Yes, it's beautiful out here, as you can see. All right, cool. So more importantly, what's even more beautiful is ASEA has just launched their Radiance College and Product. What is that you're asking? Well, guess what? That's why Danielle's here, to help explain that to us about what college it is, why it's important, why it's vital to us, and what's gonna make the Radiance that ASEA created different than any other college out in the market and also the promotional bundles that are gonna be available to you when you log into your account too.  So Danielle, how are you? I'm fantastic. I'm really excited. We just had an event in Orlando, Florida and we got first access to information on this product over the weekend and I got to, the taste is amazing. Of all the self-performance products, hands down, everybody said this one tastes incredible. It's like a dragon fruit flavor. So yeah, do you want me to jump in? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was gonna say, because I know that it's made such a, I mean, because of you, is about a year and a half ago, I started rubbing the gel on my hair and they were new. So I'm so excited to use this in addition to my loves and my best friends there. You know what I mean? I rub this there, but in addition to that, I know this has a big impact on that. But yeah, if you can get us up to speed with those of us who really don't really understand exactly what collagen means, if you can take us through that brief journey. Yeah, I'll give you just some basics, guys. So if you know anything about collagen, this is probably pretty basic, but here we go. So collagen is basically a structural protein. It's throughout your entire body. If we were to take all the proteins in your body, it makes up about a third of the total protein. And it's found throughout. And traditionally, I think collagen support is something a lot of people do on a daily basis. And traditionally, they take animal collagen. And what happens is that your body has to then break that down. It has to break it down into gelatin, into peptides, into these amino acids, which our human body then knows how to use as the building blocks, fill it up into the peptides, gelatin, and ultimately the human collagen. Well, Asiya said, this is silly. Let's cut this process in half. Let's just give the body the building blocks that it needs to make the exact collagen that we're looking for. And so that's what they've done with Redox Radiance. They go straight to the amino acid complex. And what's nice about this is that it is plant-based. So a lot of people I know are unable to do a lot of traditional collagens because traditionally, collagen is formulated from the hooves, bones, and hides of animals.  The other thing traditionally is that these collagens are harder to process. A lot of people end up with stomach upset because of it. And I don't know, Jay, if you've ever done any of these other collagens, but you need like heaps of it. I mean, you're taking like eight to nine grams of it, and it's a lot if you're putting it in a smoothie or whatever else. And with what Asiya has done because they've cut out, you know, all this extra stuff and they've just given us the exact building blocks that we need, it's a lower dosage. You only need a gram of it. And this specific complex that they've made is targeted to help our skin, our hair, and our nails. So I can't wait to see what else happens with your hair. And I know you and I both work with and know Dr. David Silverman really well. And he was given kind of a sneak preview of this product back in November. He got to play around with it for a couple of months. And I wanna show you what it did for him. So this is David's November 11th photo. And then two months later, this is January 12th. He took several. So this is again in November and then come January. And this last one, how many people do with crow's feet? Okay, so this is November. And then now in January, his photo. So yeah, it's so exciting to see that. Knowing that like David has been using the blue and the white for about 12 years. And then this has just taken it to the next level. So Redox Radiance is what they've called the product. If you're familiar with their cell performance line, it comes in a similar like little packet that you just pour into water. And it tastes like dragon fruit and tastes delicious. So, Jay, I know they're offering out bundles for everybody. Did you wanna get into the basics of the bundles? Yeah, I wanted to, when you log into your account, everybody, it's important to know that Asiya, just like they did with the clay mask, for those of you who got that, it's starting in the United States. So be patient everywhere else in the world if you're watching this. It'll get to you, I'm sure. I'm sure that's there in 10, but right now it's available in the United States. But as you can see, when you log into your account, you're gonna see something like that, okay? It's gonna be broken down very easy. It's gonna show your beauty basics here, which is the Radiance, the clay mask and also that Redox Serum. Okay, for those of you don't have that, you can also get this. This is like the Renew 28 times two. It's amazing, right? It's my favorite. I love this thing. I love this thing. Get this if you don't have this, everybody, for real. You gotta get this one too. All right, so then here you go. Then you got more of an enhanced bundle that has everything we just spoke about, but it also has the Cell Variety Pack in there. Okay, that's got for mind, mood and energy. And then there's also beauty inside and out, which has the Omega-3 and the Life Max in there too. So again, when you go to the site, you'll be able to take a look and read up on these different items and see what fits into your plans. But I will tell you this. When this came out about maybe two months ago, I think it was in the first day or two. One of these packages sold out right away. So make sure your collagen is on your radar. And like Danielle says, if it feels really, like, what am I taking? Or gives you some, upsets you whatever reason or anywhere you're not connecting with it. Load up is what I always say. Load up, get what you can. You know what you can do there. So that is gonna be available to you. Just log into your account. If you have any trouble logging into your account, don't worry about it, the number below, you can text that number. Someone will be happy to help you get access to the account and help you place your order. So either you can do it yourself or contact one of us to get that for you. No worries. Yeah, absolutely. And the last thing just so you know, if you wanna stay on this, so grab the bundle, because they're great deals. I mean, it's tons of savings. If you're looking at this and saying, hey, I wanna do this for a couple of months, get the results that Dr. Thurman got. If you put in a subscription before the end of June, you're actually going to be able to save $5 on your first three months of subscription. So I wanna make sure everybody knows that. And I'm really excited about this, Jay. I'm totally excited about it too. It's like, I know, like, you know, it's just we're all in the search to have some really good health and wellness stuff that we can take. Again, the blessing of ACIA has already been so evident to so many people. Again, I'm so excited about the college. I really am. I mean, like I said, I know that baseline of what they offer, what it's done for me. You know, I just can't wait to see what else is there. And I think everybody else that knows what I'm talking about because there's tons of you at this point in time that are feeling the same way. So get excited about it. This is all about getting us to live younger, longer, given us a better existence. Look better, perform better. I mean, whatever better, but they've got it nailed down. So jump on this. Again, with everything 30 day money back guarantee. So try it. Also, hey, makes great gifts too. Just don't forget that also too. So Danielle, thanks as always for helping explain this and shed some light from your professionalism. Dr. David, thanks for letting us pin out your picture and we will see you. Much love to everybody. Thanks. Bye everybody.


Today is Friday the 11th of December. It's nearly 5 p.m. in the afternoon. According to the original schedule of COP 21, we should have been finishing right now. But unfortunately things are dragging over, even though the French presidency did their very best to finish on time. They weren't able to do that. They went on with the ministers all last night into this morning. So there has been some progress, but there is still a few things that have not been resolved. Ministers continue to consult. The French presidency continues to consult. I would imagine that at this point in time, President Hollande of France would have been called in to try and talk to ministers and get an agreement. Perhaps even if necessary, call a few capitals, President Obama and Washington and President Xi and Beijing. Prime Minister Modi and Delhi and a few others to finally get an agreement on the sticking points that are still left. We're not quite sure exactly which ones those are. We're hoping that whatever we get at the end is the high ambition and respect of the options that we have and not the low end of the options that we still have on the table. We will find out tomorrow morning. The text will be given to us. And this will be my last vlog from pre-end of Congress. I will do the next one whenever it ends, after it ends.


Welcome back. The question in front of us quite often is that for the laws of thermodynamics, if there is a proof, the simple answer to this is that there is no proof because these are generalizations. If we were to have proof that means we would have derived these laws using deductive logic but we use generalization and hence we are in the domain of inductive logic. A large number of observations have been made and we have generalized. So why do we believe in these laws of thermodynamics? Well one can say that the belief is because of our faith in the laws of thermodynamics. But the fact is that these generalizations are so good that we have not yet discovered in control. We have not discovered a situation which violates these laws of thermodynamics. And over the years now although thermodynamics has been very properly formulated only in the last century, ideas of thermodynamics have existed for quite a few centuries. And in spite of a large number of observations we have not come across a situation which on the face of it violates any of the laws of thermodynamics. In fact our faith in those laws it is so great that if someone come across an apparent violation of any of these laws we do not conclude that there is something wrong in the laws of thermodynamics. We say that look in the observation in our deduction there must have been some error. So we repeat that experiment with great care with proper measurements and then we realize that yes we were wrong and that apparent contradiction is not really right. And more such things happen more our faith increases and hence we continue to believe in the laws of thermodynamics. Thank you.


First content cryptography for the read track, and we'll start with the first talk, so we have two talks, the first talk is a type of an existential and forgeable signature scheme based on multivariate quality equations by Kuhn, Chin, Choe, Min Park and Nam Hoon Koo, and Nam Hoon Koo is giving the talk. Thank you for introducing me. Thank you for introducing me. Today I present about a new existential and forgeable signature scheme based on multivariate order system. This is the contents of my presentation. First, I briefly mentioned about post-contact cryptography, especially quality cryptography based on multivariate quality system. And I summarized our contributions, and I explained about our new proposed MQ signature scheme named ASA, and explained about security analysis of ASA against known attacks of MQ signature scheme. And I explained about the implementation results of ASA, and compare with post-contact cryptosignature schemes. Finally, I concluded my presentation. As mentioned in invite talk this morning, if short-scan term algorithm is implemented, then public cryptography based on integer factorization problem and discrete logarithm problem are broken. There are several well-known classes of cryptography primitives that are believed to remain secure in the presence of a counter-crupter. Especially, MQPKC is based on the hardness of solving large system of multivariate quality equation called MQ problem in short. Public is a system of multivariate quality polynomial, and a tractor is hidden in secret opined layers using the opined substitution, opined structure. Its security relies on the hardness of the isomorphism of polynomial problem. Most of the MQ problem schemes have been broken due to the uncertainty of the IQ problem. A scheme based in MQ plus IQ paradigm is not only based on the MQ problem, but also some variance of IQ problem. There are only two exceptions from the MQ-IP paradigm, HFVV minus variance and UOV variance. MQ signature schemes are superior to other competitors in terms of performance and signature size, but they have relatively larger key sizes and no security reduction to the hardness of the MQ problem. This is a summary of our contributions. We proposed a new MQ-based signature scheme based on a hidden layer of quality equations. This method makes it possible to remove the use of Gaussian illumination. Our scheme is the best public signature scheme for both signing and verification among the state-of-the-art signature scheme, including classic ones and post-counter ones. Compared to other MQ signature schemes, our scheme has shorter key sizes, with the essential compatibility of our scheme. In most of MQ signature schemes, a central map app is a system of N-quality polynomials in N variables, which can be easily inverted. S&P are to apply all linear maps to hide the structure of the central map app. Public key is P equals to S sub-labs of P to be hardly distinguishable from a random system and therefore to be difficult to invert. And the secret key is a tuple, S, F, T. How to construct the central map app is the most important part of the construction of MQ signature scheme. So I still play about how to construct the central map in our scheme. There are four in this set, LKRU, and this expression means the tuple of all variables in this set in the sub-script. And M and N are determined like this, where M is the number of equations and N is the number of variables in public map and central map. Then the central map is determined like this. In the first layer, there are KL sub-j times R sub-ij for j from 1 to R and a quadratic polynomial. Each polynomial in the second layer is a sum of S sub-j times R sub-ij prime for j from 1 to R. And a quadratic polynomial psi-i and a linear polynomial S sub-j in these variables satisfy this relation in the hidden layer where L is a linear polynomial in these variables and constant psi-i. We call this relation in a hidden layer by the relation L throughout this presentation. Then lambda is this coefficient matrix of these linear polynomials and lambda sub-R is this R by R importable sum matrix of lambda. So ij in the first layer is a linear polynomial in these variables. This relation comes from these equations where the last equality is from the relation L in hidden layer.  Each entry of this matrix is a linear polynomial so we can write this matrix as this coefficient matrix form. Theta is this coefficient matrix and Theta sub-k is k by k importable sum matrix of Theta. And each pi sub-i in the first layer is a quadratic polynomial in these variables and psi sub-i in the second layer is a sparse quadratic polynomial in these variables of this form. Each r sub-ij prime in the second layer is a linear polynomial in these variables. Similar to the first layer we get this relation L to Theta and Theta sub-k, Theta is this coefficient matrix and Theta sub-u is this U by U importable sum matrix of Theta. And S sub-i prime is a linear polynomial in these variables. From these constructions we store only these ones instead of all the coefficients of F. I explain how to invert the central of F or to solve the f of x equals to r for given gamma, for F of x equals gamma to given gamma. In the first layer, multiply L of x of L on both side of equation equations. This multiplied system by relation L in the hidden layer. Choose a random new vector s of L, plug it into the system to get a new linear system of k equations with k variables. New linear system can be solved by this matrix multiplication. In the hidden layer, plug s of L plus k into a quadratic system L, linear system of r equations with r variables. This linear system can be solved by this matrix multiplication. In the second layer, it is similar with the first layer. Multiply L of x of L on both side of equations in the second layer. This multiplied system. And plug this vector into the system to get a new linear system of u equations with u variables. This new linear system can be solved by this matrix multiplication. The solution of F of x equals to gamma by performing only three matrix multiplications and computation of quadratic terms without Gaussian elimination. Next, we propose a new and two signature scheme named ELSA. For this generation, choose randomly two or five maps as tilde and t tilde until they are invertible. Here tilde means the inverse of each map throughout this presentation. And choose randomly these maps that define all the positions described before. These maps need to be invertible. Finally, compute the public p. To generate a signature for the message m, compute apply s tilde f inverse t tilde for the message hm in turn. To verify a signature, creation holds one knot. I explain about the security analysis of our scheme against the known attests of MQ schemes. These attests are divided into two classes. Direct attack is to solve the multivariate system from public p. Key recovery attack is an attempt to find equivalent keys of security. Key recovery attack using Bukki is a generalization of rainbow-band separation attack. And there are seven key recovery attacks. For direct attacks, we consider regular basis algorithm like F4, F4, F5 for solving the MQ problem. Complexity of the MQ problem is determined by the HEM5 algorithm, which gets some of the variables to create over-determined system before applying M5 algorithm. The complexity of HEM5 algorithm can be estimated by this formula, where it is the index of the first positive correction in this polynomial expression. And omega is in replacement attack, one can replace a linear polynomial by a monomial. So one can get f bar of this form. Because we set t sub r like this, and let f bar equal to f sub r, we can assume that the central map is f bar, when we consider the other attests on our scheme. Key recovery attack using Bukki is such one example. We consider this attack for central map f and f bar. This is the symmetric version of coefficient matrix of central map and f bar. Here, great parts are arbitrary values, and five parts are zero coefficients. This attack starts from this relation. We get these equations of this form. Since we have already known that some coefficients are zero by the construction of central map. So we get a new multivariate system. But this system has too many variables and equations. So we consider equivalent key and Bukki. If there are two invertible linear maps, sigma and omega, satisfying these equations, and f prime and f have the same structure, then this is an equivalent key or a secret key. Here, the same structure means the same five parts in a coefficient matrix. So we can find this equivalent key for f is for f bar.  Then we can find this equivalent key with high probability. Equivalent key is still complicated. So we use the concept of Bukki to find it more efficiently. For this equivalent key, there are two invertible linear maps, sigma prime and omega prime, satisfying this equation. And if two prime has the same structure with f in heart, then we call this a Bukki. For central map f, this Bukki. And we get the same Bukki for central map f and f bar. So there are a replacement attack on Bukki finding attack. The main complexity of this attack is determined by solving n-1 by homogeneous equations and n-coded equations with n variables. By our estimation, complexities of our schemes against all the known attack can be determined like this. For existential prohibitability, please report a paper because of time limit. Based on our secretive analysis, we choose this parameter at 125 with security level. And we summarize complexities of our parameter against all known attacks in this table. We implement our scheme with selected parameter on this hardware and this environment. It takes 6 microseconds for signing and about 13 microseconds for verification. Compared to other NQ signature schemes, our scheme has much better in terms of key sizes and performance for signing and verification. This is a comparison result. You can see that our scheme is the fastest in both signing and verification. Signing and verification among the post quantum ones and classical ones. Our scheme has relatively large public size. So we are eternity in reducing it. And optimal implementations and preventing size channel attacks are the part of our future research topics. This is the end of my talk. Thank you for your attention. Is there any question? We have many open source. Is there any limitation of open source? Thank you for your question. Did I understand the essential trick correctly? So you pre-compute the inverse, which is why you don't need God's elimination during signing? Is that kind of a good one sent to summary? Or did I miss another essential trick? So you said you reduce the sign time from NQ to N squared. And it seems the trick that you're using is that you pre-compute the inverse so you don't have to do God's elimination. Did I understand that correctly, or did I misunderstand that? Maybe you were correct. Yes. What's your question? I have one. So is there one of the 82 submissions that we have sent this morning? Maybe yes. Maybe. We've got one. Any other questions? I think existential anguishability with the applicable to other signature schemes is the difference of the schemes and other schemes. But, for example, I think the labor scheme is also an existential anguishability. Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think that rainbow schemes is also an existential anguishability. Is that not the one? Yes. Similar to our idea, rainbow schemes has also this this anguishability. So our proof is not such a street of existential anguishability. No more questions? So let's have the speaker again.


So, today's talk or lecture is basically going to showcase something that we have done as part of our project on a program on airship design and development. This presentation of this slide I have already shown you before. Many of you are aware of this PADD, its aim was to establish the feasibility of operating designing and developing airships in India and also we were mandated to go around the country and talk to people and promote the usage of airships plus develop the technological base already available in the country for aerostats, parachutes, for airships and to explore the avenues for joint development. But the question that arises is that when you go and talk to somebody for joint development, then they should also have some respect for you. You should know something and you can get a good bargain or a good deal in joint development only if you can show that you can do it yourself but you are doing it jointly to save money and time for both the parties. So, therefore before we actually went and talked to people, we first wanted to develop our own skills and knowledge base in this area. Remember, none of the team members at that time in this project including me had any formal education about airships because a course like this was not available to us. So, we had to learn all the things virtually on our own. So, the task to be completed in PADD was essentially to deliver the project definition report for the development of two airships, a demo airship which was essentially for demonstration purposes and a PAX cargo airship which was a kind of replacement for a mini truck of 1.5 tons by an airship. So, the first one was 100 kg payload and the second one was 1500 kg payload but both were expected to operate under what are called as hot and high conditions. Hot ISA plus 15, high is 12,000 feet and above operating altitude and then of course we had to look at leasing which was a separate task. Now, while doing this task, we the team members felt that there was a need for a formal methodology for carrying out conceptual design and sizing of an airship. The problem was created because in open literature at that time, there was no scheme available for assessing the capability of existing airships. So, if someone says we have an airship, this is the operating manual or the technical manual, we have no way of assessing it, we have to go by what they said. Suppose someone says here are the specifications of the airship designed one or do a conceptual sizing, we had no methodology available. If during our discussion we wanted to investigate whether it should be diesel engine or petrol engine or any other configurational issues, we had no way of doing it and very important point is we had no way of figuring it out the sensitivity of various parameters like purity of the helium gas. I am saying helium because this is a manned airship and manned airship by law cannot carry hydrogen. So, it is assumed that we will talk of only helium and what we had available to us, now this work was done more than a decade ago in the year 2002, 2001 too. So, at that time, we did not have anything other than some thumb rules like 7 percent loss in payload with every 1000 feet altitude and some operating manuals given by a few manufacturers who showed interest in collaborating with us or leasing airships to us. So, with this information, we undertook this task of developing a methodology. So, today I am going to simply showcase the methodology. I do not have the time here to derive each and every expression but what we have done is we have done all that documentation in the form of two papers, one which was presented in the conference and then an enhanced version which was presented in a journal. So, those two are available online. I can put them on model page. I will show you the key features of the methodology which will help you in understanding the methodology. So, please understand this is basically a trailer. The movie is actually in the papers. So, you are only going to get an overview and it is expected that you are going to read those papers, follow the procedure given there, maybe write your own simple code for it and then. So, this is what I plan to give you as the next assignment. The next assignment will be developing a methodology for airship sizing and what you could do is you could use the same formulations as what I have given but it will be nice if you can upgrade by making some improvements. So, those improvements and upgrades are what are going to be looked at special additions in your submissions. Now, I must first of immediately inform you that this methodology was not developed by me. I was only a part in the discussions. The creator of this methodology is Professor S.D. Gohti. Unfortunately, he passed away in 2010. He was a faculty member of our department teaching aircraft design like me and he took early retirement in 1999. We hired him as a consultant and he along with a team of 4 or 5 interns, students, etc. did this work which I am going to showcase to you.