and government operations Monday, May 11th and committee I think what we talked about doing today was looking at we're supposed to we had a little explanation this morning from the pro tem Tim and Jenny and I did because he's calling in all chairs to ask what bills right we want to pass and we actually I think are going to be okay with everything we want to do I'll just update you on that before we get started so what bills we have I've asked for finance to take up 233 and 220 and we will go through the remainder of 124 probably on Friday because they were looking at law enforcement that day and that's in appropriations and we'll look at the remainder of that from the house bills that we have that seem to be must passes are that 788 the technical corrections bill 438 which is the medical board and Betsy and Jen are working on some amendments to that that would then allow the dovetailing of 233 and right 438 and 554 which is the Weathersfield charter because they wanted before their next town meeting H793 which is the auditors bill which isn't an emergency but there is no controversy it's just some technical corrections and it really needs to get fixed the statutes are so out of date and the of the last one is H558 which is the exempting the victims compensation board from the open meeting law and we'll hear from that there was some controversy the only controversy was from the press but we'll hear from them and it's a weird situation because they're you they're reviewing victims compensation issues but because it's an open meeting they can't use the people's names and they can't even use their case numbers to refer to so it it's a very odd situation and then when they they're in this really strange setting so when they they have to publicize where they're going to meet and then and keep the doors unlocked and then when they go into executive session to actually talk about the the confidential records the people have to go sit in their cars or in the parking lot so everybody can see who's it's a very bizarre setting we'll hear from Chris Vennell and I'm sure we'll hear from the press but they so they're they were the only ones that opposed it but it really is a pretty sensitive area so we'll hear from them okay so that's hugely sensitive and to discuss the cases frankly and openly with you know the open meeting law was a hindrance of actually making progress on behalf of people right so we will we'll hear from them and we'll hear from the press and figure out what we're going to do with it it did pass the House but the others I think we can just go ahead with them I think they're gonna have a rules committee meeting tomorrow right up right after the floor I or right before the floor one of the two and we'll get permission to vote on them tomorrow okay yes it's after because we have a lessons learned meeting at 8 30 okay whatever they're gonna do it at some point so now speaking of lessons learned I think that Chris correct me if I'm wrong here Chris was in this meeting this morning with the pro tem he had he's calling in three chairs at a time to talk about bills going forward and it happened to be Chris and Ginny and I so actually it was like sitting in our rented house up there with having Tim and Peter joining but where was the crossword where was the crossword puzzle that was the question we weren't doing it so what we talked about was the kind of one group is looking at the at their kind of reopening and how how that's gonna happen and then the other one is on what what were the when this hit what were the things that were so immediately out of whack that we need to address them so I thought that our committee could start talking about those things and today talking about municipalities and OPR those two areas is that what your understanding was that we were gonna do yes okay so what are the things that we learned did you did everybody get Karen horns no I haven't seen but I haven't been here this morning so I didn't get anything for she got it this morning like 10 minutes ago oh great she is oh you were with us okay so why don't we just start the conversation Karen do you want to kind of bring us into the conversation thank you and I'm going to drink my soup thank you for bringing us into the conversation so we sent after I received your email Friday maybe Saturday me I don't know Saturday maybe I sent an email out to some of our folks and just asking them what kinds of thoughts they had and I've received a few responses back so on the first part of this it's just general thoughts things that when and I have been understanding over the last several weeks and then some comments from some of the local officials who who actually were able to get back to me yesterday afternoon for the most part so and and I think there are no surprises for you here we we really think that towns need to have flexibility to respond to these kinds of crises or whatever the next crisis is I'm always reminded that we prepare for the last emergency we were not very good at looking prospectively for what the next emergency might be and then with respect to those lessons learned around this emergency we need to institutionalize remote or mail voting capacity for voters in general we've been in several discussions in the House Education Committee recently about the school districts that have not yet had votes on their budgets and and so that's a significant issue and will sending certainly talked to that at some point everybody agrees that technology to allow for remote work teleconferencing and high-speed internet has to be in place going forward that people are going to be interested in remote working the long-term and and that for personal safety as we learn more about COVID-19 that that's something that really needs the in place and if you hear it raining on the roof my car because I'm in the schoolyard today and another issue that we're understanding and I think the state fiscal issues is making very clear is that you when you have reserves you're in a much better position to address these kinds of unforeseen circumstances and that having some kind of reserve is an important function of municipal fiscal responsibility we are being asked to pivot to providing services on a whole range of issues that we haven't really understood as traditional functions for local government and I think on this point that some of the larger communities are being asked to do more in that regard than smaller communities but like managing volunteers providing helping with providing meals addressing a shelter for appropriate shelter for homeless population all those kinds of things are things that towns have really in some instances had to step up and and provide and then as you've expressed in your in your legislation on the emergency medical service providers that having funding training assistance and protections for the people who we really depend on in a crisis is absolutely key and needs to be sustained sustained and then the education property tax system is broken in case realize that we are going to I've been spending a whole lot of time in the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees on the issue of education property tax funding and what the municipal role is there the town role so those are just some of the issues and then you can see down below that that the folks that we heard from are very interested in making sure that the measures that we put in place and that the governors put in place remain available and in place for the next time this comes around and the next time might be as early as the fall I mean so that's sort of where we are today and I and you please be aware that this is basically thrown together and I maybe just a place to start a conversation I think thank you this is helpful to start the conversation I think this is great Brian thank you madam chair here and I don't mean to get into the weeds quickly but when you say I mean and I don't necessarily disagree with you but when you mentioned the education property tax system being broken are you are you thinking specifically of one or two things there or is that not an appropriate question well the the issue that's come up is that and I could go so far into the weeds so please stop me but the issue there is that um municipalities collect and bill and bill and collect the education property tax um they do so on a under ordinary circumstances on a timeline that's fairly tight um once that they they can't actually bill until they get the homestead declaration information and property tax credit education property tax credit information from the state and that's all dependent on when budgets are adopted it it's just sort of a whole cascade of um events that it seems could be much more simplified and and that's just the scheduling piece of it you know like when the listers file the grand list and what's entailed in that and you know do we do inspection all those kinds of issues okay thank you Allison so just to tag onto Brian's concerns so you don't mean that income sensitivity is necessarily broken you just mean that the the town's role needs to be reviewed and and seen with new eyes as a result of this of what we've gone through in the last 10 weeks the um the most immediate issue for towns is the um the the sort of the methodology of how it all gets built and collected and remitted to the state but the larger issue not necessarily around income sensitivity but the larger issue about how we raise money for the education fund is also a huge issue I mean right now you've got people who are not going to be able to pay their property taxes um and uh you've got you know not just school budgets municipal budgets also but you there's there's not a lot of um flexibility built into the system you know you have to collect the property taxes you have to provide them to the education fund that means that people are still on the hook for them and what's the end result of that the end result is that if people can't pay they lose their um property but but that that is good that's going to be a problem anyway whether it's based on income whether it's based on property I mean people just don't necessarily have the cash at this moment so looking at how we deal with it more flexibly with less punitive measures when we or perhaps is perhaps okay I I think there are a couple things here there's that the immediate thing of how how the process works and how the timing works and that that um can be we can look at that then there's the larger question of how do we fund education right exactly and how do we keep we primarily now we funded through the sales tax and property tax and is the property tax the appropriate way to complete to fund the education tax to such an extent and I think that's a larger conversation but I I do believe that that's a conversation that has to be had and my feeling is that it's probably it never really happens very well because nobody knows exactly where it lives and nobody wants to take it on does it live in the education committee or the finance committee and so but it is a conversation that we have to have but but the immediate lessons learned in terms of flexibility and how can we build in flexibility when we need it quickly how can we pivot uh in times of need is I think an immediate question in terms of lessons learned well we're not learning very quickly right now since S344 hasn't even gone to the governor yet right and and here we made an emergency measure designed to pivot quickly that is still not law yeah very frustrated very frustrating but so do you have suggestions about how that should be changed or just um allowing more flexibility or well um this is Karen Hornigan we are working with the um houseways and means committee on some of these issues and they are putting a proposal in one of their bills and I think it may be the miscellaneous tax bill I have to circle around on that again that would direct the department of taxes to look at what it would take to um transition to them collecting the the education property tax and in committee um the commissioner of the department of taxes said well if we're going to have this conversation now is a good time because we're just starting to work with the new grand list software vendor I know um so I think that that is a conversation that likely will be had in the next year so may I ask so yeah I mean are they actually get their two systems now are they getting rid of both those systems and trying to go to one the um department of taxes has um they have a new vendor for grand list software and um if I can send you some information that came from the director of property valuation review on that but you if if you want to delve into this more you may want to have Jill Remick in to talk about it to you right I guess I guess you can have the overall conversation at the same time or later because there will always be some dependence on the property tax for education but so whatever system they design um could be applied whether the uh reliance of the property taxes 90 percent or 10 percent right and we've just and we had the blue ribbon tax commission uh several years ago and now we have a tax review the the group of three that are still actively working on their recommendation so I this is uh current in that those three are still working I I never can remember the name of that commit that that tax commission but the tax structure yeah yeah they are actively looking at this so I you know our conversations now should be able to be fed into their thinking now um by guess I'd like to ask you Karen uh I think that we've learned a huge about about building in flexibilities just even for snow storms and stuff for for people to be able to again flexibly use remote meeting opportunities you know when you have a crippling ice storm or snow storm and you have a select board meeting you can you cannot have to cancel it necessarily unless there's no power but it would be great to be able to provide some flexibility for towns to be able to decide when they want to want to exercise and use these opportunities yeah I I think that's that's excellent and and as I said earlier I mean I think we're going to be in this particular crisis with remote meetings for quite some time and um so people will get accustomed to these ways of working I don't think we're going back entirely to where we were in February I it'll be curious I think people people miss each other and if if communication 99% of communication is nonverbal uh we're missing out on a huge amount of what's being conveyed quite frankly when you're so I have the feeling that people when they have the opportunity to meet in person again will be there but I think you're right the flexibility I think we need to allow for more flexibility and for towns to be able to call that when they need so in terms of that one issue do we um I'm not sure the process here and how this is going to work but um being prepared what we learned to be prepared for the next one not necessarily even what we learned for forever but to be prepared for the next one do we need to do something that some kind of legislation that does specifically that that allows the towns to make those decisions on their own instead of having um us have to get together every single time there's something that they can't meet is that what I think that's what I hear Karen suggesting Anthony did you have your hand up I was just gonna say I think that is what she's suggesting maybe what we do is we give towns instead of saying the town shall do it this way you would say the towns may do it this way or that way depending on what they choose it seems like we're giving a lot of latitude to the towns in that case but it's probably the right thing to do yeah I agree tonight the other day I mentioned do we want to keep doing what we're doing in terms of not designating a physical space and all that which some people would say undermines the public the openness of it on the other hand people are saying it's more open now than it was before because everybody can go online and watch so I'm just I'm sort of just mulling that over my brain as we talk through this Brian so I just would suggest that another option would be given the work that we did with whatever it is not picking a physical location or changing the open meeting law situation and all the other things that we did to allow some flexibility for municipalities we could just look at those bills and in essence change the dates to whatever the situation was at the time in other words rather than go full tilt let's change it for keeps this would allow us to each time the declaration is made for instance we're still under a stay at home order I think till the 15th once the 16th happens if the governor hasn't done anything else that goes away but if it's reinstituted at a future date I don't see that there's a big problem getting together as a committee again and taking a look at all the bills that we did and just reinstituting them by using the same exact language what changing the date I think you could even be more flexible than that probably by just um saying that the in whatever we want to call it in normal times that there has to be a physical location because I do think that that is an important thing to maintain but that um as much as possible people should continue doing it this way because as Anthony said there are more people that can actually watch and follow it and that in when there's give the town some flexibility in determining when there's an emergency that might need to um have them make the switch so that they don't have to have a physical location because it might be um I mean this one is statewide Irene I don't think was statewide it was focused there was an emergency declared in certain areas and I'm thinking of the ice storm whenever that was the huge ice storm up north we didn't have it but it was terrible up there so let the towns have some flexibility to determine when when they see that there's an emergency that would um preclude them from having a physical location meeting and some of that might be too hard to do I mean if you have a meeting set for tonight and suddenly there's an ice storm it's a little hard to but if you have um it already set up to do it remotely also you could just plug into that I would think I don't know how you would work that Allison well obviously I I agree having chatted about that that because those ice storm you know that kind of thing to be able to to shift uh with with a day or two's notice I think is is would be great um but I also think one doesn't preclude the other I mean right a physical location and still have zoom participants look at the governor's press conferences they have a physical location they're there and some of them are there in real time some of them are there remotely and all the reporters all over the state are are far more present and able to ask questions so it strikes me that in some ways this expands on both possibilities you know and and doesn't need to mitigate either one I mean you both well I think we have Tucker with us someplace I thought I saw him and um yes there you are and I think that um um we might be able to to craft it in a way that um does give flexibility so that if if there is a statewide declared emergency that precludes people from coming to a physical location it can just automatically happen and then if if it's um a local emergency it can be decided by the by the select board I think that's that possible to craft Tucker yes that would be possible to craft and as uh senator column or indicated earlier you already have language it would allow that to be triggered it would just be a question of whether that's going to be a permanent provision or as you've been discussing whether it would be something that would be temporary and dependent on your future action um the conversation for the last two minutes it sounds like you're considering having this be a permanent provision that would be triggered by the declaration of a state of emergency you could certainly do that and you could have a division between local emergencies which you would likely have to define and the statewide emergencies yeah or not only not just statewide but um area wide if if the governor for example declares an emergency in three counties which which he did as you point out and I read that very uh county specific but but also if we're going to be allowed for flexibilities for towns the select board needs to be able to say we're getting a crippling ice storm in two days we are going to do our select board meeting two days from now we're going to do that remotely it yeah I think that's what Tucker said well he could do that we could do that we could allow for the the it could either be an an declared emergency statewide or region wide by the governor or that the select board itself has the flexibility to declare the emergency is that right Tucker you could certainly do something like that yes right all right so let's is there other other than open meetings I mean we know that in order to really do this well and this my guess is going to come from every single committee is that we need to have better infrastructure you mean on it yes yes I because we have school kids who can't access their lessons and their teachers we have Karen sitting in the parking lot at the school we have so I mean poster child so we need and I think that's going to come from every committee that suggestion that we need to improve that yes and I believe finance has taken it on I mean I I believe finance is because in our conversations in senate economic development it's been obviously a top priority to add this to our our COVID money from the feds and but I believe from my understanding is that the three members who are on both committees that finance is going to take the lead on that okay so Karen I have a question about reserves yes currently you can have a we used to call it when I was on the select board a sinking fund yeah for our new plow truck and our new whatever we had to buy yes but are you not allowed to have just a general reserve well um it's one of another one of those issues where some towns do it and other towns don't see the specific authority for it so it might be something to look at a little bit more okay so it isn't necessarily that they don't want to do it but they don't see that they actually have the authority to have a a reserve fund and feel that if you have a because I do know there are some towns that feel if you have a reserve fund you have to put it back into the you know pay back the taxpayers yes yes so yeah so there is some there's a discussion that would be good to have there around the issue okay all right other things I'm looking at well if you go all the way down to the bottom there uh this is something that the town of that ferd has raised and 19 bsa section 312 says that you have to keep your highway funds in a separate account like you cannot um you can't use them in the same way you would other general funds where like the select board or the state for that matter sometimes moves money around to balance out different line items and then moves it back um you can't do that with highway funds apparently and this is an archaic statute um and so that uh we we do think it makes sense to get rid of 19 bsa section 312 I would be happy to come back and talk about that when you all um uh have had a chance to read it and and also Nick Clark who's one of the select men I think he's the chair of the select board in Thetford right now um he would be happy to come talk about that issue as well okay Karen doesn't the Department of Public Works have more than just the highway I mean it isn't it sewer and or water conceivably or any public work the it's actually the the the particular statute is specific to the highway budget oh is it even though it has a general name yeah well he said DP DPW but he oh we don't know it's we don't know what the statute says so I think Brian thank you is that's for the only town that's ever mentioned this I don't when it was put in a statute there was probably a good reason I don't know what that was but I'm just get I'm just the point I want to make is if it's just one town suggesting that I don't know that it's that critical an issue can I also I find I think I'm sorry Chris had his hand up and then Anthony um is it related to this question yeah right I mean the same thing I just so we'll have to learn more happy to learn more um one thing that it's unusual is that there's a state allocation to road projects right so I I can imagine the state being a little more fussy about where those funds land or something like that well um if I may just to that point um we would if it should be very clear that you're only talking about locally voted highway funds not not anything that comes from the state or any other level of government yeah Anthony I could be wrong but I think Nick or someone told me that some towns have dealt with this through their charters so there are there are other towns that have dealt with it or had not either dealt with it or didn't need to deal with it because it was in their charters allowing them to do this is that right Karen is that true all right I believe so but I'd have to go back and and pull out that language you know find that language in the charters okay I mean it really didn't have anything to do with the COVID situation it's just while we're doing it why don't we take a look at this kind of right well I think it might have been related to COVID because they can't if they have fun if they have funds in their highway budget and now are finding that they can't because of COVID-19 can't do some of the projects that they had anticipated doing they can't use those funds for any other purpose yeah it did it is something that came up as a result of COVID where towns were looking again for a little flexibility in how to spend their funds on issues that are you know that they have to address now because of COVID and other things that are not going to be dealt with immediately because the circumstances aren't there right now okay thank you Alison did you have a comment yeah well I mean you know having just talked about education property tax that's also required to be kept quite separate I mean there are other funds that we require to be handled distinctly and separately I think that's not a municipal budget though oh I see what you mean this is okay even though it's and management you pass a municipal budget of a hundred dollars and 35 of that dollars was for the highway fund and you find now that you can't do the projects you can only do 10 dollars worth of projects that other 25 dollars is just sitting there you can't use that to to do whatever you need to do because to put in a new computer system in your office or whatever even though it's your the money that was raised through your municipal tax got it so it's not it's not coming with state transportation dollars no right which is okay right which is what somebody said earlier Brian or so I've heard from a couple other towns about this it reminds me of the Alison you should remember this Woodstock cannot use any of its parking meter money for anything except to buy new parking meters well I know and we dealt with that yeah for yeah but anyway the um so we could we can we can take care of that we can hear some more testimony on that and take care of that right Tucker Tucker is Tucker's thinking about it yeah no he's not he put his thumbs up okay what other issues there was the issue of equipment and supplies is that right so the the comment from some of the towns swan was one of them is that they need supplies um that's not necessarily just a municipal issue every everybody needs supplies that's why there aren't any um but uh so so I think they're just sort of flagging that in general that and and not there was another comment in here that that Vermont um would do well to be a little more self-reliant in terms of those kinds of supplies but yeah and you are those are budget items of course that that towns as everybody else are are incurring now that they didn't necessarily expect to be incurring well that's yeah that's a slightly different issue in terms of helping to solve that in an ongoing capacity this is interesting from um swanson who said that they found that trustees meetings were really hard to hold so they chose not to hold them in because they have town manager form of government they just went ahead and did stuff yeah that was a little well that is manager does have specific responsibilities in the statute so yeah yeah so if we are the town manager yeah you can continue to do some things but there are still some things you that you would need our approval to do anyway unless you had it in your charter so may I ask a question about that uh karen uh every town that has a town manager falls under those statutory um town manager you know manager not just swanton yeah so if you uh have a town manager form of government which is something that you voted that the voters voted at some point in time then you are subject to the statute in title 24 on town managers and anything that's different from that would be in your governance charter having said that if you have a town administrator or something like that that person does not fall under the town manager statute it's the select board hires that person and writes the job description and and it's outside of the town manager statute but aren't most town managers hired that way i mean i don't i mean you have mayors who are elected but town managers tend to be hired by the select board yeah tell me yeah they are hired by the select right so what it makes them different from an administrator they are administrators no right well you have two different things you have to think in terms of um legal terms so town manager is uh is a term in the statute and if you're hired as a town manager you're subject to the statute the town administrator position kind of grew up in other municipalities that don't have town managers and they perform a number of the same functions not always all the same functions but they're not subject to the town manager statute that it's vermont what can i say but you and they don't have the same level of authority as right now managers have town managers have a great deal of authority and town administrators do not and and i have to say that having been involved with lots of towns and their select boards there are towns that where the select board and the town manager are always at odds and then there are towns that treat their town manager like a town administrator and the select board retains most of the authority and the town manager and some of them have a good relationship that way and some of them don't and i care and you might think i'm all wet here but and and some town administrators do more than they probably should be doing so it's it's all over the place but if you have a town manager form of government they have certain they have a a lot more authority but you had to have voted to have a town manager for right right yeah and that was that clearly my neck of the ones was a while ago um karen when you are able i'd love to know how many of our 251 towns how many have town managers how many of mayors how many of mayors and managers how many have administrators i mean it would just be interesting to see who's governed by what yeah we definitely have those numbers there there are eight mayors that's easy there are nine cities and eight mayors and uh there are at least four of those cities that also have managers but i will get you the list it is kind of interesting yeah just if i may just say with respect to this um comment from swanton swanton has an electric department so it's the the village trustees in swanton do mostly electric department stuff so um oh so anyway you might put that in that context a little bit okay yep they're all everybody so different it's so interesting yeah and um and it works for some like what um i know there were a couple towns down here at one point who really wanted to have a town manager but neither town could justify having a town manager but so they talked about sharing a town manager um and sometimes that might work and sometimes not but um my you know you know my thoughts on local government and and towns and shires and so i won't even go there so may i just ask the chair speaking of our priorities i can't remember the name of our our town liberation bill but what 106 is 106 right so where is that as a priority in the house has anyone talked about that as a priority because actually it's very relevant now in these conversations it is very relevant and no they have not talked about it so we might want to have that conversation just because actually lessons learn supports a lot of the work in that bill they do yes that's why i'm thinking about it as we're having this conversation i feel like wow this would be a great time to have those pilots because it's you know in some ways this covid challenge is a launching pad for that conversation yep well we'll we can we can push them to see if they can we'll take it up i seem like i don't know if if they're on the floor today or not john gannon um a lot watches a lot i don't know that he is right now but if you are john if you are john we would like to revisit this because i think it does address exactly i mean many of these issues so would you expand just a little bit karen on um the municipalities being asked to pivot to provide services that aren't traditionally seen as i mean we've seen that in our schools a lot now i guess we're seeing it in our municipalities can you just expand on that a little bit and how we might go forward with that yeah so um and i apologize my computer just ran out of power so um i don't have my list in front of me anymore but but um that for instance the city of burlington which i realize is the biggest city but they set up a resource recovery center and they're doing everything from um providing you know managing the volunteers who are sewing face masks to um helping people with meals to um to uh they're just doing a huge i'll send you the link for their website okay the city of rutherland is likewise engaged with um a lot of the non-profits in the area to um assure that people get that those kinds of services when they need them the town of johnson which is a smaller community actually it does it has a village in a town also um and they put in place some measures to to help manage volunteers so um so those are all kinds of things that towns haven't done very much of in the past at this at the same time on the on the other side a lot of towns i'll just mention this but a lot of towns that traditionally have summer recreation programs are really wondering whether that's going to be a possibility this year and um some have already canceled their summer recreation programs so then the question is like what do you do instead you know because it's child care and summer for a lot of people for a ton yeah so they're and and and the recreation departments as services is are are mostly embedded in towns in town municipal government yeah yeah okay i don't know how we if there are things that we learn that we can apply but what what what is the issue that comes up i mean i don't i don't know but yeah i don't i don't know what how we that we would solve or not solve i mean to me i'm not clear on that well part of this is i'm sorry part of this is just sort of flagging things as they're arising and some of these discussions might not be quite ripe yet but and we'll and we'll see what happens as the um as the summer moves along but um they are what what's happening in some of those communities is they're spending resources where they never did before and they're not spending resources where they did got it so which certainly is a reason to do the transportation funding whether there are other um yeah so um if i may i i do think that the mayor of barry is on this call lucas herrings on this call i don't know if you might have anything to add to this conversation oh thank you i am on the call i'm only listening peripherally at this moment though so um i guess if there's anything specific you'd like to have for answers um i'll answer any specific questions you might have well if you have any suggestions around um both kind of transitioning back to where we might have been before and on the issues that we've talked about and any other issues that you can think of that we really need to be addressing as we move forward please go ahead and throw them out sure uh some of the concerns we've had um of course we've been implementing more bill payment online as much as possible um our restart is probably going to slowly follow what the state does because of all our deficits that have been incurred we have a loss of revenue from the meter sales our alumni hall and auditorium that are rentals of course we are not generating any revenues from that and we've had to take actions on uh the bill that will be coming out for our fourth quarter payment on may 15th we're looking to abate any of the late fees that are associated with that payment so those that have not yet received a unemployment check for example they are held harmless during this last quarter of the year so we're just we're looking at trying to find ways that either revenue can be reimbursed back to the municipality we're looking at you know a large deficit not only this year but next fiscal year as well as we try to restart ourselves um for the other examples we do have a number of restaurants there's a process going on right now by I can't remember the organization's name that has formed but they they call themselves don't 86 that's just the restaurants that they're not able to transition to curbside or delivery service and when they are looking to have 10 or more people in their establishment that's not something that's going to happen June 1st when other businesses are starting back up so the reason why I bring that up on the municipal side is we gain a local options tax based on the rooms meals and alcohol tax on some of those establishments and any money that they're not raising again we're not creating a revenue stream from them that comes into our municipality those funds are mainly geared for our streets and sidewalks projects so again it's just another revenue stream that we're not able to receive so those are all things that we're trying to think of as we try to restart we will be having a budget conversation in June related to what we forecast for revenues in FY 21 because it will be a downgrade and we will need to make sure that we're changing our expense patterns to match that unless there's any other support that the state or federal government will be providing so may I ask given that we were just coming off that conversation about lost revenue we're clear on because that's been an issue right through but the additional expenditure of services that municipalities have taken on as additional services have you seen an increase in in those and your choice to become you've chosen to be a generous municipality in terms of what of revenue you've chosen to give up but what about the additional expenditures you've had in terms of services so for services since a number of those items have gone online the people that manage the online payments are individuals like the city clerk who she is a salaried position many of the positions are salaried so even if it came to reimbursement for overtime hours it's not something that we're realizing we've implemented a furlough program for many of our support staff for example because in order for us to try to keep down that deficit some of the services are just not being provided what we have seen though in our area are groups like downstream and capstone and other social service groups there's a large group called thrive which is 40 plus organizations that provide services to the most needy here in the central from our area they've actually come together and form their own group in order to provide those services so that's not something that the city has taken on for expenses although we have had our deputy fire chief be a member of that group and their conversations so that we do remain in contact again that's a salaried position so there's not additional expenses being incurred in that fashion and then we are documenting anything that is an expense for say it's PPE or training or other items that staff have to have but those are minimal compared to you know what the federal declaration of a disaster area are uh so mainly what we've been trying to do is is cut back on the face-to-face interactions you know and if we were to spend more I think it would be in those areas where we build out our online capability if there was changes with public records for example and we could digitize all of our records that way there if someone wanted to come into view records within the vault well if it's already online and digital then we would not have to have them come in unless they needed to make a copy for some reason of something that we can't digitize but according to our current public records laws those need to be kept in that area so I mean there's areas for improvement that could be done that could help us in the long run but as far as the fees on our side or expenses that we're incurring we're trying to keep those as a minimum as much as possible thank you so okay if I can ask one another question here um the just for your information committee and everybody else the digitizing letter did go out although I didn't call it digitizing I called it bringing Vermont land bringing Vermont records into the 21st century that's that's what we called it good um so that letter has gail just send me a note that that letter has gone to all of those people and um we hopefully um it would be great if they came up with um some kind of a an initial budget that might be needed that could come out of CARES money um whether they can do that that quickly or not I don't know but it would be great if they could come up with just a rough initial budget to get started anyway so Karen one of the other things in here the general thoughts was um training assistance yes and I know we've talked about it for the EMS people but are there other other training things that like um I think that the state we abandoned our health officers at one point and um well we stopped funding them at the state and yet expect them I don't think we've ever reversed that or solved that one but anyway are there other training um needs here that that we learned about that would be needed well one of the training needs that you were talking about before actually but is even more relevant now is around cyber security okay um so so that's a big one we are um we've been having training around the new grand list software um with Jill Remick from the department of taxes because uh clerks, treasurers, listers, everybody's going to have to get up to speed on that and um then we've also well the department of emergency management has done some trainings on FEMA and the disaster declaration and how you um keep track for reimbursables as the mayor mentioned that a couple minutes ago and then we're um at the league we're um trying to put together a list of trainings that would that will be helpful to local officials as they sort of navigate the new remote working workplace um unemployment issues everything that's coming down in terms of compliance with the CARES Act and whatever might come after that so I I could get you a more complete sort of landscape from our municipal assistance center they've been talking a lot about what our training needs okay that would be great so are there other Brian thank you madam chair Lucas I just had a quick question the bill that would authorize the local legislative body to uh change the due dates for the property tax uh and also excuse me uh take away if they so choose the penalties or not paying on time if that bill were to get signed by Thursday of this week I understand you said your date right now is Friday of this week correct the 15th correct our uh fourth quarter tax bill is due on May 15th as is Rutland cities by the way um would that if it were to become law on Thursday would that allow you enough time for that local legislative body to meet and change that date if they so desire so what we've been doing in the meantime is uh it's not just the property tax but we also have our water and sewer bills that we're abating and the process is to have our board of abatement review these every two weeks as we meet as a city council so we have a warned meeting at 7 15 when council starts at 7 the board of abatement is our city council plus the city clerk and the assessor so when that body meets we make sure that those other individuals are also at the meeting we call the meeting to order and of course there's other people too actually a representative anthony from berry city is the chair and what he'll do is ask for us to abate the taxes and fees associated with or I shouldn't say taxes fees and late penalties associated with any of the water and sewer bills and it would be the same thing for the tax bill for that period so every two weeks we're making sure that that is removed and what will happen is on our meeting on May 19th anything that did not come in on May 15 it'll be a part of that conversation of abating the penalties that were associated with that tax bill so if the bill is signed it just means that we don't have to have that joint meeting anymore city council would be able to have the authority to sign off on this for the duration that we've already set in motion and it means that the board of abatement just doesn't need to meet along with us during that time period does that mean that you really didn't need the bill I think it is better to have the bill to make sure that we can act quicker as necessary but we were trying to find a way to still have this occur if the bill were not to pass for some reason I applaud your creativity Lucas thank you you're welcome and I just for your information I sent a note to the powers that be asking them why the hold up and I got a response saying that all these things have to happen and then there has to be a signature by the lieutenant governor and the speaker and they don't know what their accessibility is to come and so I just sent a note back and said why can't they sign electronically and in the case of an emergency I mean we're doing everything remotely and you'd think that because I mean what if the the speaker doesn't live that far away but what if the speaker lived in Bennington or the lieutenant governor lived in Bennington but the speaker's mother has been in the hospital and has been very ill the speaker has been also working remotely yeah I I just I mean it's crazy it is crazy so anyway maybe that's one lesson learned huh yep all of us should have our own our own processes yeah it has to be a way of somehow encrypting the message so that it can't be so that they can sign it remotely anyway okay so what I would suggest is that we continue this conversation think a little bit more about it have some more people come in we've got right now a couple things though that I think that and Anthony are you on the you're on the transitions one and Brian you're on the lessons learned and now Brian and now yeah Alison you're on what lessons learned okay so we've got these things here and you we're feeding them to you and then you can feed them back to us oh yeah ironically I'm on the committee that's looking at education okay all right it's an imperfect system but Tucker could we could we have maybe have for the next time we meet some kind of sense of what we might do in terms of like the ability for the municipalities to be a little more not not just municipalities but also like regional entities like the planning commissions and stuff to be able to have a little more flexibility around eliminating the need for a physical location if there's some kind of a declared emergency or if they think there's an emergency and they have to be some parameters around it and then I guess the tax department is working on a timeline around trends around the property tax bills and then specific authority to allow them to have reserves and then the highway funds right and that's what I've got so far yes and what date would you like all of this by I don't know maybe maybe sometime next week okay if that can work we can make that work I know you're I know you are really busy and you're trying to be smiling though that's good you know at least you didn't say 530 today and we'll get it done did you see the new 251 club thing that they're doing thank you for sending them Tucker how many have you gotten to how many have I gone to and recorded in my journal or how many of the 251 have I driven and toured around aimlessly with my wife those are two different questions you're supposed to record them they're supposed to record them the whole point of our presence was to record them you're the lawyer do you know you visit them remotely given a situation right yeah we we operate a drone from a distance and tour the municipalities not answering the question no he's not but that's okay we should not be putting him on this spot so thank you mayor for joining us and Karen and you're certainly welcome I'm gonna shift here a little bit to the OPR transitions and lessons learned if that's okay with everybody this is the mayor I was just uh you do not need me any further I can sign off you are welcome to stay however okay I will sign off just because I I do need to get back to my day work and I'll note that I finished the 251 club last year luckily before it happened so how many years did it take you it just took us one year and we scheduled a quite a few trips a lot of weekend trips where you can travel part of the towns and then stay like halfway in between home and there and then that way there we were able to hit you know sometimes 11 in one day well um but you know if you think about it there's some areas like in the northeast kingdom where there's not there's a lot of distance between locations so oh really yeah but I can give tips to anyone who is on it or wants to be on it anytime so feel free to reach out great thank you did you take a selfie in every town uh we did we actually uh had a schedule where we had to do something in each location so some places where there was not much to do because there wasn't much there uh if there was a local church or a waterfall we'd also take our picture along with that location right good for you so that's right that's one of those the the gore the dual score right a very poor dual score you know if you're in um Athens Athens Vermont it's hard to I don't know what maybe the town you take the town clerks they're Athens Vermont is bigger than you might think I said there's more there than you might think I've been there so am I because it's one of Vermont's four dry towns that's right it is which you can take your picture in front of the non-bar that's right okay thank you mayor thank you all right lauren what do we know from you hi lauren hi guys for the record lauren hibbert director of the office of professional regulation it's great to see all of you thank you it's great we miss you oh I miss you all uh very much although I I don't know if you guys have the pleasure of it's almost the same as testifying and before you I all your personalities remain the same remotely and I greatly appreciate it I miss OPR so much I've started licensing my neighbors on in the streets how are you licensing them hopefully not tattooist because that actually gives you we're working it out but well we had worked so hard on so many bills right there before the end beginning of COVID so I'm thankful to the chair for her advocacy for those bills and I do think there's some key pieces in those bills that would help us in the future so I I'm grateful for for the advocacy and I do have a couple of things that your buckets under way the first bucket being how do we go from crisis to normal I think the big overarching thing that OPR needs and I suspect most agencies need is a clear end to the state of emergency so that it doesn't just end with short notice there's a lot of things that are baked in to the state of emergency being in effect and it will take some time to unwind what we really put together in quick order in act 91 that I you know like all of the temporary licenses and all the telehealth provisions the expansion of pharmacy scope if those just went away tomorrow we'd have a communications problem so I understand this may not be the legislature's role to define when the ended emergency is but to those who are listening you know some notice of when that's going to end and it sounds like the governor's already planning this but if the state of emergency continues and we you know open and close the spigot as we go along that's a better place for the regulated community to be in as opposed to lifting and then putting the emergency order back together lauren do you not may ask a question yes lauren how much when you say you you need a clear end how much time do you anticipate needing to in order to effectively mold temporary you know how much time do you need to make it you know not you know a master a mess I think not a mess would be you know three or four days but organized and predictable maybe 15 days or 30 days just so that we understand what's happening and the hospitals who are using out of state licensees for telehealth have time to to get them off of their payroll or get them appropriately licensed we have retired people who are working in the suit of vermont on on temporary licenses and they need to know when that authority is going to end there's there's just a lot that's wrapped up into act 91 a lot of changes that were really important and really effective quite candidly I think I think the team that worked on that bill was had a lot of great ideas that have been you know at the time we weren't sure how it was all going to be used some of us some pieces and it's really come together in a very cohesive manner so have you been able to keep track of those temporary licenses so that we will know you know how effective it was you know the act 91 actually enabled 85 doctors or you know whatever you have all that yeah there's there's a group of licensees group of people whose information we are not collecting and that is people who are licensed in another state who are only providing telehealth in this state and that seemed logistically most feasible at the time of act 91 going forward if we were going to continue that type of activity on a sustained basis which I know that there's lots of discussions about telehealth and I'm certainly you know I'm just in the licensing end of telehealth I'm not that the end user of the telehealth you know professionals but so I wouldn't want to speak for facilities but what I I would love to be able to collect who's providing telehealth in the state but that didn't seem logistically feasible at the time that we were crafting 91 that fell into my next bucket which is in place for the next crisis that ability to do that to collect that information for people providing telehealth and it may be something that really needs to be in the telehealth section but yes I mean there's just there's people working in the state and people working in a telehealth capacity out of state that will mean to cease practicing when the state of emergency ends so just logistically we have everybody's email the facilities know who is providing telehealth I think if somebody is providing telehealth like mental health tele mental health teletherapy to say a kid who we've seen a lot of people providing telehealth to college students who have returned home and it has enabled their counselor back where their college was to continue telehealth of course that's important I think those folks are probably paying attention to what Vermont's state of emergency is and what the authorization is but it's it's a communication outreach issue and I do think we would need some time to have a orderly wind down and have you have you had that conversation with the administration in a yes a little bit we have yes and I I believe that in a meeting that we had this morning that Chris and Jenny Lyons and I were in that she talked a lot about this about trying to figure out what it means what the transition will mean in terms of those temporary licenses and how we how we do it in an orderly manner so big questions yeah so quick question just so I understand yep telehealth when the the licensing provisions that were flexed in order to help get through this if the physicians out of state it was to allow out of state physicians licensed out of state to be able to call Vermonters in Vermont is that what we're talking about there's um several different yes there's several different categories within Act 91 if you were somebody who was licensed in another state and only providing telehealth then you did not have to do anything with the state of Vermont you could just you could just provide telehealth and we were really thinking of scenarios like Dartmouth where people may not have had a pre-existing patient-client relationship but someone in Vermont wanted to call a Dartmouth provider who was not licensed in Vermont and triage their health concern before going over the state border into New Hampshire because that's their closest hospital and I do think there's a lot of that going on and I I know that that Vermont's approach to this has been very well received by New Hampshire because new Hampshire providers a lot of clarity about what they can do to Vermont patient for Vermont patients via telehealth and just one quick follow-up so you mentioned students who have gone home from Vermont colleges and stuff like that and so if they were seeing a counselor here are those who are not licensed like a psychotherapist allowed to call them ordinarily if they're back in Connecticut for instance or specifically about somebody who was out of state college student who then came home to Vermont during the COVID crisis because we don't control what Connecticut expects of somebody practicing in Connecticut we can only control what Vermont expects for somebody practicing in Vermont which providing therapy or any type of telehealth is by definition practicing in Vermont. I see okay so and just the last flavor of all this is it is a Vermont licensed psychotherapist allowed to talk to a patient when they're out of state or are they are they by virtue of talking to a client out of state practicing medicine in that other state. Generally it is the latter some debris if you are continuing services in another state you're practicing in the other state and many states do what Vermont says which is if you have a pre-existing relationship then it may continue but if you do not then it is not allowed. So Lauren the some of the issues like the pharmacy and I think some of the licensing issues if we were to pass 220 and 233 and get those in place that would there will probably be a gap between when they become effective even if they get and when the emergency ends my guess is are they effective upon passage or on in July those two. The way they're currently written and please correct me if I'm wrong is July 1st of 2020 but I'm thinking that those will be modified if that if that if those bills move I would be asking that that date change because I think it would happen after that date for one thing that I also would be looking to have that effective faster than waiting until July of 2021. So um no wait a minute I now I'm confused if their the effective date on them all except for the massage therapy part is July 2020 and that the massage one is 2021 is that right so I my concern was I did I just hear you say you wanted to move that effective date out farther or I was thinking that to make it effective upon passage right that you could have so there wouldn't be potentially a month or a two months gap between when the emergency was over and those kicked in because some of like the pharmacy things. I think the miscommunication is you are more optimistic and definitely have more information than I do on how quickly those bills would move I thought they would not be adopted until after July of 2020. Oh no no I'm I'm pushing to have them adopted within the next week. Okay so um I mean not they probably won't get to the governor then but I'm pushing to have them through the senate by then. Okay um with that clarity um yes I believe that them I would have to go through um all of the specifics of 220 specifically but I would need to make sure that we could operationalize those upon passage but I think we could um I just would need to go through each section and make sure that you know my team could could do that. I think that would be helpful because some of them um I it dawned on me when you talked about the pharmacy things because if there's a gap and then the bill itself does a lot of the same things that the emergency bill does for the pharmacy so we don't want to see it stop and then have to start again so if you did that and made whatever can be effective upon passage that would be great. I can commit to doing that work and get that to um Betsy by the end of today. Thank you. Sure I'm sorry for my density that. No no no no no I I wasn't very clear about that and just just so so that you know that just because I'm pushing doesn't mean it'll happen. Right but also I can be very pushy but some times people don't listen to me anyway which is always a surprise to me. Well it's a surprise to me too but even so then it would have to go to the house and you know that'll take some time. Right. We would be pushing for the house to take it up as a priority also. Right. I am pushing for that. But I know that. Madam Chair is that your your advocacy is effective I'm testifying on many of these bills um so thank you. Yeah. Okay what do you want next Lauren? Be careful. So in place for the next um crisis um part of what has been very effective with Act 91 is the regulatory orders that we can that I can issue um when somebody is failing to comply with you know public health standards or doing a practice that is not safe or in conflict with the governor's order has been specifically how we've been issuing these orders. I think we've ordered a handful of them and they're primarily have been when people are failing to comply with the stay home stay safe order and continuing to practice. Um the pharmacy expansion um we've already talked a little bit about it's gone very smooth seamlessly it's been smooth it's been without any wrinkles um and um it has proven to be very important particularly with the drug shortages uh that we are currently experiencing and anticipating um given our our retail drug supply that comes from China and India um it has been greatly impacted by COVID and pharmacists have needed to do substitutions within therapeutic class. I think that there's something to be said about um the larger concepts in 220 with the pharmacy expansion um both um for um the bill itself but um the ability for the commissioner very expressly to issue guidance on what pharmacists can do um will be helpful particularly as we look at two pharmacists for um testing COVID-19 testing which I know is um being contemplated it also is um something that um if there's antibody testing it's possible that pharmacists could be part of the group to do that work so um that that those sections into 2020 um sort of create a pathway for the commission to be issuing um more um I'm blanking on the word but more um sort of like the naloxone standing order a standing order for COVID testing whatever the next thing that could happen um the other piece that has been pretty effective although um perhaps underutilized at this point because we haven't seen the surge as much as we were originally anticipating was the re the retiree renewal retirees can renew healthcare retirees can renew if they've been out of practice for up to three years um I would love to see on the entire OPR would team would love to see that added permanently to title three um emergency um statues um it would I think it'd be important to not make it specific to healthcare but any licensee type that is relevant to the emergency because we could have another hurricane um or tropical storm like tropical storm Irene where what we did during that um state of emergency issue a lot of engineering licenses right it could be not tied to healthcare but could be um have a wider scope than is what is currently in act 91 I think that would be helpful um um and the um piece that 91 added permanently to title three about um allowing for emergency licensure of graduates who are unable to take their exam because of a state of emergency has been um I don't have the numbers I could I could get them to this committee but we've issued I think in at least maybe 100 of those licenses um that's great nationally the the exam landscape is um greatly disrupted um nurses are unable to take the m-clacks um engineers are unable to take their exams I mean it's just it's a hard time to graduate um from college or a master's or doctoral program having spent your entire um last several years dedicated to profession and that exam is usually the last piece that's required um and uh exam providers are following CDC guidelines and then can only have um that sometimes it would you know 10 people together in a room and so you think of the exam proctor the person who admits that you're then at you're at eight people um and an entire graduating force um of students who are anxious to get into the workplace so that emergency grad licensing um it was added permanently to title three but it has been really really important was it permanently added for more than nurses yes it's it's all licensees and that was okay okay um and we've been issuing it for non-healthcare licenses as well okay um the open meeting laws um we haven't yet um had really an open meeting since uh we've been remote um I've been using there's a power in um act 91 that I can act on behalf of the board if necessary if it's on if we're unable to convene a meeting and I have been using that power both for disciplinary orders and some regulatory decisions um but we are about to start using some open meetings for boards we're having a dental board meeting tomorrow um that ability to have a remote open meeting is really crucial to us um we do rely on our boards for professional expertise even in a stigma emergency I don't want to be making um all of the decisions in a silo without them and I don't want to violate open meetings so that ability to have a remote meeting is crucial um and I I think that remote meetings um people are going to be expecting them just as an access to information to not have to travel um I'm I'm anticipating tomorrow we're going to have quite a few people participating in our remote dental meeting um and I I truly anticipate that for our boards um remote participation will start to become a standard request so um Betsy what Betsy Ann when um you've tuckered draft something up for flexibility for municipalities maybe this can be um tagged onto that and so is the suggestion to just add it as a permanent um authority to do open meetings by all remote participation I think in the same were you with us when we were talking about it for municipalities with um so that if there is a declared state of emergency um that you don't have to have the physical location if there if there isn't then um my preference would be that you would still have the physical location that it wouldn't be all all um remote but that in the specific instances there could be more flexibility by the municipality or by the particular board to to say I mean if the secretary of state's offices get washed away when the river floods maybe there isn't a physical location and so in that state of emergency they have the ability to to the flexibility to say um it's going to be all remote but the fallback would be to have a physical location and a remote meeting where possible and I think Tucker has some language but I was just thinking we might be able to add this does that make sense committee brian it does I meant to mention this earlier when we were speaking only of municipalities I would not be in favor of giving authority if there's a snowstorm to not meet it has to be a real I like the declared state of emergency clause period but I could also understand where the local municipality could in very very rare circumstances also employ that method I mean Allison mentioned an ice storm well if it was as bad as it it was going to be then I would have assumed that the governor or would have you know made some sort of declaration I don't know I think it's I think we need to tap the brakes a little bit on that and not just say oh well it's snowing we're going to meet no no I don't mean to say that we did yeah I agree with you brian I think that it needs to be set within some strict parameters because I don't want to see the um select board say oh my god there's going to be 10 inches tomorrow night and so we're we're not going to have a physical meeting if it's going to be that bad maybe they just need to cancel the meeting yep agreed thank you but give them a little bit of flexibility and then see what happens and if people start abusing it then we yank it back well may I uh it I wasn't just envisioning um whether related challenges or but also you know with many of our towns still have only three select board members it's possible there could be all sorts of health reasons why they could if the three people are sick then they shouldn't have the meeting I I think that we if we make it too broad we're going to end up really limiting people's ability to participate because you can watch them but you can't participate well but but we can as we watch the governor's press congress and people are able to ask questions in a way they can never do when they're just watching the select board meeting after the fact on access television but but if you if you if we have a select board meeting and it's a zoom meeting only the people that can participate that are invited can participate so when there's a physical location I can walk down to the town hall and go to the meeting I didn't have to be asked to invite I didn't have to ask to be invited but on a zoom meeting if I wanted to participate I would have to ask to be invited and then they would have to invite me no I don't participate I don't actually believe that's the case you can have an open zoom meeting where everyone could conceivably participate if they had a system raising their hand and stuff I mean I just I just had one like that and and I had members of the public who were able to participate who were not on the agenda or anything okay Chris I still think we have to have a pretty tight parameters Chris yeah well that right I shared the chair's concern because if you want to have security in a meeting as in have it under your control the way you normally could if you're running a select board meeting not getting zoom bomb for instance you have to have that you have to have people invited and then let them in and that means people who aren't uh they basically will have a limited ability to participate uh you know we're talking about having meeting other meetings in the state house like a public hearing for instance and it gets a little the IT is still sorting out how to have a broad public meeting uh but not lose control of that meeting which right they concern that they they have we don't really have a very good version of um you know 200 people showing up in the state house and 80 of them getting on a witness list at the moment although they're sorting it out yeah I think we're going to have answers and and methods for doing that sooner than we think well that might be but I still if we're going to do some legislation around this I want it to be pretty tight that that giving the flexibility to select boards within some constraints I agree Betsy Betsy what is it to be determined on what those constraints would be when I pass this info on yeah okay should I just say it might be during a declared state of emergency or some other standard that Senegal Vops will discuss yeah well it so it could be during a state of emergency that precludes you from meeting in person I mean there could be a state of emergency that has nothing to do with your ability to get together and um and and then some parameters some flexibility for the the municipalities but I don't think we've discussed it what those parameters are yet so Allison so in this conversation you know it might make some sense to have Kevin Moore talk with us about what is possible as we look at some of this flexibility and and and technological but and the flexibility that technology enables so I think it would be helpful maybe during the course of our lessons learn we should you know loop in uh Janet or Kevin because they've done a ton of this work preparing and thinking about uh and preparing us for all sorts of different types of emergencies Chris well and the other so I think you're right I mean to me I agree the whole idea of fighting careful constraints the the technology is changing so fast I don't I don't want us to sort of get sucked in to right too much about what zoom does now or doesn't because only uh 10 days ago was the first time I saw the oh well you can have a webinar in zoom and they just they keep changing stuff so I think plain old statutory language that is protective of meeting this is going to be important no matter what the technology is that's used to deliver okay so we we can discuss those parameters later and I don't think the parameters have to do with the technology in my mind the parameters have to do with when when they can actually say we're not going to have a physical location and I don't want them to say we're going to not going to have a physical location just because my road hasn't been plowed yet and I'm on the select board I mean so so we're just it's just the first thing we're thinking about this so I mean I think right we just get to yes we are going to have this yes we are going to have this conversation more okay so Lauren and and I didn't mean to get into all of those weeds what I was just if we could have open meetings meeting remotely when there's a state of emergency that would be very helpful if it means that we can't connect physically and the other piece that I think we all are going to have to adjust to is that the public is becoming adept and used to being able to log in virtually to meeting and so there's a there's a minute issue there there's a record issue there I think that our professional boards are members of the the licensees are going to want to be able to participate in more meetings remotely once we start um and I fully anticipate that when we get back to normal however that looks OPR will have a physical meeting and it will also be broadcast virtually yeah and it will become part of our standard practice because the amount of people that are in this virtual room I assume are far greater than could fit into your committee room on any given day so in some ways the virtual world is more expansive too and I think folks are going to get used to that so that's the only piece that I'm sort of anticipating for the future is how do we do we store these meetings so there's always a record of it we've never recorded our public meetings before um we've just kept minutes so those sorts of things that I'm sort of thinking about in the future in terms of public opening and then the the third bucket is what have we learned and the big pieces are when appropriate expanded scope really helps everybody in a state of emergency um pharmacy expanded scope there was not a lot of controversy over when we enacted Act 91 it was an appropriate expansion another piece of that um that I don't want to lose track of is the collaborative practice um requirements for APRNs those are waived in Act 91 I'm not advocating to this committee that you add that into permanent legislation today I think that will would need a lot more discussion and um and you know stakeholder engagement but that there was very little discussion over that and that previously I would have said would have been something very political but it clearly there was consensus that that was needed in the state of emergency so um I'm just bookmarking that for a future conversation telehealth telehealth telehealth is so important um that's been a big lesson learned I think not only for OPR we've all had to at OPR we've had to become much more competent talking about telehealth trying to figure out exactly what people what the question is that people have been asking us and responding to it based on the Act 91 guidance but um it's just been um telehealth has been the theme of OPR the last eight weeks um so for may I just ask a question yes okay for those of us who aren't on healthcare uh give me an example of how you other than allowing it and and relaxing the regulation on it how is it consumed you for the last eight weeks I don't get how why it's been so what is your ongoing yeah all that can do it how do you document it um how essentially has been the large um pieces and so far have you so far it's all been good yes I think telehealth um has been we've been able to answer the questions we've been able to provide guidance um whenever we can um and yes I think that people have not had adverse experiences from telehealth that we've heard from yet and the billing also I mean that's not your department so much but has the I mean it's wrapped up in it is the billing worked well too I think so I would want you to probably hear not from me on billing because it's really outside of what um we focus on we have referred people um to other departments on billing questions but I have not gotten very involved in billing I know that there's there's different billing structures for telehealth and um and some of that is within act 91 thanks that the the telehealth crew was looking at that the other the other piece is just um interagency communication um I don't know how much um control this committee has but over that or how much anybody has over that but um any opportunity that we can communicate better interagency um and I think I think it does speak a little bit to some of the consolidation issues that um sometimes we talk about in this committee you know um David Harley and I have been in closer communication during this state of emergency than we have previously but um it is great um but there's um sometimes it's unclear which licensing agency folks need to communicate with um and people have registered on our site that need to register with health and vice versa um there's been a lot of questions on reopening um and um and how that's being done um that's just a big area of conversation right now of how we safely and responsibly get these um help these professions back into the workforce and how we communicate with them so um there's been some great times and some hard times but we're working through them but it's um it's a it's a struggle to to figure out how to communicate effectively as one government front so maybe we need to continue to look at um the bringing um licensing into the same place I mean that that we need to kind of this shows us that we need to continue that conversation I think it does um and I think it does because um then when people think of licensing they think of one spot right um and that would be really helpful whether it's health for all health care licensing or whether it's OPR for all licensing but it has led to some some confusion and um I think it would be helpful so we'll have that come yes I mean I just remind uh Lauren would you be kind of to remind us how many licenses we still don't you still don't oversee we don't oversee um the doctors the MDs the physicians assistants the podiatrists and the anesthesia assistants and plumbers and electricians and teachers I think there's still some outstanding bills of registration obviously massage being one of them I think that uh and home contractors being the other one both professions that had the government been able to communicate with easily in the state of emergency it would have been helpful um that bill no one's making that a priority in the house unfortunately we're we're right you're you're speaking about home contractors yeah I don't believe it is a priority in the house and I don't know if it's appropriate to be but it is an interesting point I think is that when there's guidance being issued from the governor or from eccd and it's related to one of our professions we can email them all within 20 minutes and we have a list we can prep it and we can email the guidance and that is something that we do not have the ability to do with home contractors right thanks okay Brian thank you madam chair Lauren can I ask you and I'm not sure how much of what you just gave us falls into the lessons learned pot or the going forward pot whatever that other group was called but it would be helpful um if you could yeah because I saw you were reading notes you must have written it down if you can just put that into an email and ship it off one of us is going to have to be responsible for telling another group of people where you are in terms of what you learned and what you hope to see uh change going forward and I don't know whether that's going to be senator Polina or myself or senator Clarkson but it would it would be helpful to at least have the information thank you I would be happy to do that I was absolutely looking at notes you were right and that's okay the line between in place and I'll just show you these are my notes they're pretty we like but I'll I'll make them better and I'll find out they don't have to be particularly fancy well they'll be in a word document not chicken scrawling but the line between in place for the next crisis and what we've learned is very gray to me because what we've learned we need to put in place for the next crisis I'm hoping so thank you anything else committee from Lauren well also if we get and when we get I should say 233 to the finish line in the Senate I will still need your help because a lot of what I left is still up at the state house and I don't have a printer here so I'm going to literally be looking at two different screens to try it out and I'll need Betsy's help too obviously with floor notes which are not like the same type of floor notes as before but we'll get it done I will absolutely help you thank you and then you'll look at the effective dates with Betsy on both 233 and 220 you got it I think 233 well on both of them yeah if there are if we need to make some different effective dates and then okay so we there's some some things in here that I think a lot of this will go into what health and welfare is working on but there are some things in here that might we might put in to some more permanent statutes like regulatory orders that you can issue and things like that and standing orders for COVID equipment so anything else that so we'll continue this discussion and we're going to wait for this other group to send us some words of wisdom and we'll put them all together and who knows where we'll go okay sounds great thank you so much for thank you lauren thanks it's great to see you all right thanks so committee I just got a note from secretary bloomer and he said that the LG is signing the 344 tomorrow and he has a meeting he's meeting the speaker at 245 tomorrow to sign for her to sign so that'll then they'll go to the governor tomorrow here's another immediate thing that could be a letter from us which is we need to have everyone to have an ability to do electronic signatures well I think that's that could be a letter that's I think that's something that we should take up with the pro tem and around and I think that's probably a joint rules and issue I'm not sure but it probably is one of the procedural rules of the of the general assembly so I am sure it is but it is clearly identified as something if we want to do something fast and in a time that affects thousands of reminders like this that bill did uh it it would have been great for us to be able to move that in a timely fashion yeah I think we should I'll I will send my next letter yes one of those white missives you heard of white papers these are white missives yeah chris um and what's our schedule on 788 are we gonna take that up for a 788 is um they're gonna have a rules committee meeting tomorrow right after the floor I believe and um isn't that what Tim said this morning they will get permission to vote on that and 438 and 554 and um 558 if we but we need to hear the testimony on 558 first but on those three so are we gonna vote on those tomorrow then well we'll get permission to vote on no we're not meeting tomorrow we have a floor session but the committee's not meeting tonight the committee isn't meeting tomorrow oh I thought we were I thought no work we oh Monday and Friday Monday Tuesday and Friday it was Wednesday we can't we we are meeting tomorrow I believe yeah if we we can we can vote on 788 if we get permission and if 438 if Betsy and Jen have the amendments we can vote on that and we could um I'll we'll have Karen um or somebody from Weathersfield perhaps their senator might speak to us about the Weathersfield charter change yeah and and we could also get the rep who's been very involved maybe we could get Ann Marie Christiansen to testify yeah usually we have somebody from the the House of Ops who reported it but whatever just so that we um I don't think it wasn't controversial or anything but just so that we have some testimony and that so we could have permission to vote on those three tomorrow once you get the permission will you inform me so I can add it to the agenda yes I will and I won't I won't get the permission until after the floor session okay tomorrow but um and 788 I don't think most people care about that at all that should take us about four minutes if that we care about it because Jen and Betsy and I was I was planning on a full report on that yeah exactly the one I was planning on a full report on was 438 the medical board 90 minutes was what I thought is that right that's what I thought too I watched Senator Mazza on the floor and when he starts putting his palm against his head I know the report's getting a little I figure that 788 should take about four minutes to report and it's that introductory thing that Jen gave us about why they're doing it and if it's published we don't have to go through every vote and I believe that let's see who who who all who all volunteered to report that oh we haven't voted on yet so no we haven't discussed it yet yeah 788 yeah 788 that's yours no yeah that's Christmas yeah I'll do 438 yeah I'll do weather's I'll do weather's field oh boy good I don't always okay so anyway we can do that we'll do that tomorrow we'll look at those tomorrow and we do have the charter the weather's field charter actually on the agenda we don't have the other elections in military right yeah we're gonna look at lessons learned around elections and around the military okay and who should we invite tomorrow is there anything anybody who's not on the current agenda that we need to bring in I didn't look at who's on there um wait did we ask Ann Marie Christensen or the whoever whoever reported the the weather's field thing the charter nope we could invite whoever reported it from gov yeah it was probably Jim Harrison doesn't he do all their charters many many of them yes yeah and general night wow good whose dog was that that was mine she's this tiny sweet little thing that has this bark that scares the heck out of everybody you must be saying it's time to go oh it's the opposite of my friend who when she sneezed this is the way she sneezed anyway there are many days many days that we don't get mailed because of this dog all right so do we have are there other things that we need to talk about today no that all sounds good okay I have I am meeting um at 330 with um the pro tem and the speaker to talk about elections he mentioned uh the governor mentioned it at the end of his uh it was brought up today I tuned in at the end of his press conference and I didn't hear it Brian did you we were we were here oh no we were in agriculture it yeah you it was like a like quarter of one between 1230 and quarter of one I was listening to it in the car and he was deferring to the secretary state pretty much completely well I think that's what his letter said when I read his letter what it seemed to me to say is get everything all ready and the only thing that doesn't happen until and it wouldn't happen until September anyway is to mail them but everything has to be ready just like the field hospitals were ready right so did that come from Kendall today I haven't seen it no I didn't get anything from Kendall so where do you know this where is this letter I missed the go oh I I thought um the secretary of state sent it to me I thought I forwarded it to everybody oh today I know I haven't seen it last week I'll I'll re-forward it I'm sorry I I seem to have moved I'll re-forward it right I don't think we got that okay thank you Anthony for I have to go I'm on with the speaker okay right now bye