from Cambridge, Massachusetts, extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE, covering the MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium. Now your hosts, Dave Vellante and Paul Gillin. Welcome back to MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, everybody, I'm Dave Vellante, and this is theCUBE. theCUBE goes out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. We've been in partnership with MIT. Now this is our third year at the MIT IQ Chief Data Officer Conference. It's our pleasure now to have Murthy Mathi Prakasam here. He's with Informatica, expert in what's going on in that world of ETL, governance, data transformation. Murthy, welcome to theCUBE, it's good to see you. Thank you for having me. So we just had Michael Stonebreaker on who's basically throwing cold water on it, virtually everything that your industry has done, multi-billion dollar industry, governance, ETL, it's all BS. How do you respond to that? Well, actually I think a lot of what he said makes a lot of sense. I mean, the reality is there are growing data sets, the data sets are more distributed throughout the enterprise. And so this is the reality of where data is going. It's not all about having one single place with super duper amounts of control. What I would say is that there's balance and that's what we're seeing the most successful enterprises do. On one hand, you want to acknowledge that you want to have autonomy and freedom, self-service, these are all movements that I think are inevitable and that all of our data platforms are going to eventually evolve to fulfilling. But the reality is you also don't want data chaos. You don't just want data all over the place. I mean, one of the key themes at this event here is security and governance. So if you're a financial services company or a retail company or any company that's got sensitive data, you don't just want data floating all over the place, it's completely ungoverned and insecure. And so the key is balancing the agility of IT, the autonomy of business analysts with the fundamental enterprise needs of security and governance. And that's what modern data management platforms are starting to do. I think it's right on, I mean, it's always been a balancing act. It's fun to have sort of, you know, just take one side, Republicans and Democrats and just make that argument. But the reality is there are a lot of new projects being spun up. That's right. So-called big data space. And many of them, if not most of them are being funded by lines of business who could care less about governance and security and compliance because it just gets in the way of selling. But then it exposes you down the road. So somebody's got to be responsible for the information asset and liability management. And that's kind of where you guys come in. So how are you helping customers manage that balance? Absolutely. Well, so a very simple way to do this. Things like data masking. So we offer data masking natively in Hadoop. So you can actually, before you hand the data off to those business analysts to go off and do whatever they need to go do, just mask the data just so that they don't have access to the raw sense of information. Simple things like that. And these are very, very agile products. So it's very simple to do. A central IT team can do that. They're not doing this long and complicated process that like I think that was portrayed before. You know, there's these simple processes that can just help ensure some protection. Basic, simple security governance principles. That actually enables greater autonomy because now IT can trust the business to having the right data without any of these, you know, risks of a lawsuit or any other kind of compliance failure. So from a product standpoint, you've got the platform, it's very successful. It's mature. And then the market, all of a sudden Hadoop comes along and everything gets distributed. You're shipping, you know, code, five megabytes of code to petabytes of data. That's right. How do you architecturally evolve that product so that it's not a pure bolt-on so that its performance is maintained so that it's, you know, resiliency and recoverability are still there? Absolutely. Well, so Informatica's platform already runs on Hadoop. So we've, for over three years, we've actually had our entire data integration, data quality, data governance portfolio. A version of that now runs directly in Hadoop. So we can now take advantage of all of those features that you're talking about as far as scalability, performance that Hadoop offers. Now, but the enterprises can still get all the best of breed functionality from Informatica at the same time. So I think this is also one of the trends we're going to see as new platforms come on board. Companies like Informatica can easily evolve their platforms so that we can help our enterprises evolve theirs as well. What do you see customers doing?  What's happened is, when you talk to practitioners, those are the two most important aspects of their big data initiatives. That's right. So what do you see happening? It's not replacing one with the other. It's sort of a coexistence, which many have talked about. Mike Olson has said this all the time. It's not cannibalizing. It's sort of incremental. Maybe there's some price pressure, but what are you seeing in the customer base? No, I think you're exactly right. It's about an evolution of the portfolio and the data integration evolves along with it as well. So because it is inevitable, there is going to be growing data sources and there's a growing need for data by different consumers like the data scientists and new types of automation systems. So it's inevitable that the one size fits all approach doesn't make sense, but that just means that the CDOs out there are going to have a diverse portfolio of different platforms and now they just need a different kind of fabric that ties all of this together and that fabric is way more agile and enables more agility for the enterprise itself. So it's just a matter of evolution. Evolution of the platform layer, evolution of the fabric that kind of ties all of this together and ensures all of that data curation that we've been talking about here as well happens in a way that is very agile, very, very nimble and very quickly. How do you see initiatives like Spark changing what's happening with Hadoop, with the data sources, with the pace of data ingestion and how does that affect what you guys are doing? Well Spark is just another data platform technology and Informatica always, whenever we see innovations at the data layer we just try to take advantage of them and so Spark will be another technology that Informatica can leverage to perform all of the operations that customers look to us to perform. But as far as the enterprise is concerned they won't have to do any Spark coding. We want to shield them from all of that and because this is ultimately what happens and you have all these new technologies that come out, the average enterprise can't go out and retrain their entire staff to leverage that one technology and who's to say that technology will last for a long time, maybe it'll change in six months, a year or two years. So what Informatica tries to do is our development team learns the latest technologies and we embed that within our fabric. So if you're an enterprise that's been using Informatica 10 years ago the same mappings and same processes you built simply poured over and under the hood we've done all the integration for you as far as these new technologies. So whether that's MapReduce, whether it's Yarn, whether it's Spark and I'm sure six months from now or a year from now it'll be something else. That's a really good point. You talk to the people coming out of Google now they say, oh yeah MapReduce, that's ancient. Spark, I have been there, done that. Oh, you should see what's happening now and now Spark just hitting the market. But nonetheless, it does change the way in which data initiatives are going to be utilized with it expands the scope of those data initiatives. So I mean, from your standpoint that's good news, right? Expans your TAM. As I said, the pricing dynamics are interesting, right? There's a lot of people say that ROI and big data has been a reduction on investment. Some people have this idea of okay, it's cheaper, it's open source, I'm using white box technologies but it seems like in this technology industry all that means is people end up buying more. Exactly. They actually do make it up in volume. So what are you seeing just in terms of the business dynamics? Well I think that it'll be interesting to see. I mean it's hard to tell. Pricing and business, it's very hard to predict trends in this space but there's definitely moved toward more subscription pricing. Move away from big lump sum kind of deals, move to smaller deals, try a project out maybe on a small scale and then expand. So this is definitely one of the patterns that we're seeing, where products, where we're seeing people who will start with maybe a smaller deployment of a product. Once they get one project going, they can see the value of it, then they can expand that project and then keep going. And I think the nature of Hadoop and some of these new platforms actually sort of enables that as well.  Now what about this event? What are you guys doing here? What's it been like for you? What's the discussion going on? I think it's a great event for us because a lot of the things that we do are focused on data management issues. It's about data integration, it's about data quality, it's about data governance, it's about security. And these are the issues that I think that keep CDOs up at night. And so a CDO is less interested in the technology of how it's done and more around the business requirements of how do I actually deliver great data to all of the consumers inside of my organization? And that's what Informatica has always been about. We just never had a CDO as a target persona to go actually have that conversation with. So now I think with the emerging role of data in the enterprise and the CDO as the steward of that function, Informatica just has a new person for us to go talk to. What are you seeing in terms of that role and its evolution? I mean two years ago the number was I think single digits, maybe seven, eight, nine percent of organizations had a CDO. Obviously the concentration of financial services, healthcare and government was higher. Are you seeing that take hold now in mainstream as a persona you're going after? Maybe talk about that a little bit. Absolutely, I think it's definitely, it's still early days, it's taking off but I find that it's not consistent across organizations. So in some places it's still an extension of IT. In some areas it's more of an extension of the business. An exact intersection of where does the business side of data management and the technical side of data management come together. I think it's something that every enterprise is still trying to figure out. And maybe there never will be one single model. I think every industry looks at data slightly differently. The heavily governed industries have to put a lot more focus around security, governance and things like that. There's other organizations where agility plays a greater part and so depending on the industry maybe the role will also be slightly different. But it's exciting times because I think ultimately it talks about the value of data and that's what Informatica's always been about and I think there's just more exciting things that can happen here. So what should we be looking for? Let's see Informatica World was the spring. You guys obviously have a cadence. Kind of let's talk roadmap a little bit. What should we be looking for from Informatica over the next, say 12 to 18 months? What are you going to be working on? There's a lot of innovation that kind of goes along this theme of what we call data intelligence. So one of the unique things that we do because we can see all the data that people are processing through our fabric, we can actually look at the data and make inferences about what kind of data it is. And then we can use that to build specific functionality on top of our products. So we have this product called Securit Source which is a fantastic example of this. Securit Source looks at data streams and it identifies where there are potentially sensitive data sets. So if you've got credit card number somewhere or other kind of personally identifiable information, especially in the world of big data where you're just ingesting so much data, you can't have armies of people just sitting there looking at it to figure out, oh, is this bad or good? So we have technology that looks at the data and will surface in just a nice graphical board that says, hey, you've got some data sitting in this area of your environment. It looks kind of sensitive. You might want to go check it out. So it's just like a heat map and it's just a very, very simple way that we can help enterprises actually get better understanding of their data. And I think this theme of leveraging greater understanding in intelligent ways is something you'll continue to see in future products as well. Excellent, well, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great that you could come on in and give us your perspectives on the business in Formatica and really appreciate your time. Absolutely, thank you. All right, keep right there. We'll be back with our next guest right after this. This is theCUBE. We're live from MIT IQ in Cambridge, Massachusetts. We'll be right back.


on Monday, June 1st. Berlin Select Board, we're just going to be meeting to order. With us tonight is Justin Lawrence, Flo Smith, John Quinn. Thank you, John Quinn. Sorry, John. And myself, Brad Town, also is Dana Hadley, our town administrator, and Diane Isabel, our town treasurer. Let's see here, additions or changes to the agenda, Dana? Yes, please. I'd like to add a short discussion on the letter to support Central Vermont Fiber's mission to apply for a grant. And I'd also like to add a discussion on tapping trees in the town for us. OK, treasurer's report, I mean, public comment. Hearing none, treasurer's report. Each year, when we talked about the fact that we do have credit card payments, people can make credit card payments to pay their taxes and utilities and birth certificates. Last year, in 2018, it was probably about $85,000. And this year, in 2019, it was $109,400 that people paid through credit cards or e-checks. The majority of them made the e-checks of $1.95 each. So $71,000 of the e-checks. I have more and more businesses that are using credit card and the e-checks especially. So that's just interesting news, because every year, it's just been going up and up and up. And now that more and more people are aware of it and able to go online, I think that it's just a really good, it's good for us, I think, because it works really well. And we don't pay the fees, they pay the fees. Is the e-check the same as like the A, is it AHC payment? Or it's just they put in their bank account and routing number and it transfers them? That's what it is, yeah. The fee for that's the $1.95. That is the most effective to me and the least amount of fees you're going to pay. Economic, yeah. Yes, wonderful. Oh, yeah. But it's mostly businesses that do that, which is interesting. More and more of the personal property taxes are paid through that, which is really, really good. That's all I've got for now. Well, we're going to need that again. Auditor's confirmation of understanding the letter. This is the boilerplate letter that we signed over here about the understanding of how the audit is going to occur. We are in the second year of a three-year contract with Father Gil Seagallian Valley. The cost of the audit this year is $14,000. This would be to audit FY20. We do not need a single audit this year and there's nothing unusual about this letter. It's what we do every year. It's $14,000, right? I did I say $14,000. It's $14,000, I'm sorry. It was $14,000 last year. I think it's like, thank you. What will be next year? I think it was. $115,000. I can tell you in one second. Well, have you seen this yet? No, not that one. No, I had to stop and think for a second. Thank you very much, John. It's worth $500 a year. Yeah. Next year, we probably will need a single audit in FY21 because of the. It has to be $750,000. It has to be grants at this point in time. Oh, it may not be then because I don't think the sewer efficient is getting any grants. OK. Not at this point. Well, not that we know of yet. Justin, did you see this year? We did. Thank you. Thank you. We need bread signature and beer signature. So this needs to be signed by Brad and myself. So this is the third year we have? This is the second year. Well, actually, we have them for three years. Yes. So this is the second year of the latest contract. So actually, it's our fifth year with them. Do we go up to RFP for that? Yes. OK. Yes. Do we usually do it for a three-year? Yeah. Still? Yeah. You have probably a motion to sign that. So I guess what I was looking for is if you could just have a motion to approve it. Yeah, but we approve probably go to the valley and have been on Brad's sign for the board. Can I second that motion? Can you put a little discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Those for carries. This is Kathleen coming in now. Hello. Hi, how are you? We're trying to social distance as best we can. So either you or Matt can be on either side about that. I'll just be back here. OK. All right. So I just wanted to go over here. You know Matt, who is our representative to the Central Vermont Solid Waste District. This is Kathleen, who you've met before as well. Kathleen Jen. It's been a little time. And it's been a little while. And I understand Kathleen is executive director? General manager. General manager. Thank you. And so they've come to discuss some things with you. You did have their material that Kathleen provided. And what is new in the wide world of the cycle? Well, our district is poised to construct or find a property for a household mattress lease facility. We got a $500,000 grant from the state of Vermont that we've been looking for quite some time in planning and setting aside funds so that we could do this type of facility. Having a year-round household hazardous waste facility has been something that resonates in businesses for years but then encouraging us to seek out and make happen. And so with this $500,000 grant and our own board's commitment of over $500,000 of our own funds, reserve funds, $594,000 actually, that gets us very close to having enough funds to actually make it happen. We know we have a little more grant writing and grants to receive. And we do intend to go forward with looking at properties, including in the areas of Bury, Montpelier, Berlin, East Montpelier, or just the right site for our facility. We expect this whole project will take a couple of years and we're hoping to open the facility in the spring of 2022. So we wanted to just meet with you, see what questions you might have, and just do a general check in about our activities and services and just talk about this and a few other things. For the people listening to us, can you take in the describe household houses, wastes? Sure. It's really any material that is considered dangerous. The things that you do not want to have end up in the water system, in our streams and water resources, or are dangerous to people, that's et cetera. So it can be automotive types of products, cleaning products, really anything that has poison, toxic, any of those types of labels on the material. But primarily things that you find in your household for occasional or everyday use that are difficult to get rid of because they are considered dangerous. Does that mean anything from pesticides to batteries? Batteries would not be considered household hazardous waste. We have other programs for batteries, but certainly pesticides are a major type of household hazardous waste. Now, is this facility also going to take medicines? We might be positioned to do that. Right now, we just coordinate with police collection efforts. It could be. We really haven't talked about that. But it's possible that this will be located in an area where we can expand to do other kinds of programming beyond household hazardous waste, but that's what our focus is now. I think, Brad, the impetus for doing this is the household hazardous waste. But once you contemplate building a facility, then you can look at what other activities you can add to the footprint without weighing it down too much or without causing problems for flow of people or trucks or other things. So the core of it, the motivation of it, is the hazardous waste. And then we're going to look at our programming to see what can make sense to add to the footprint in a way that doesn't overcomplicate things or cause concerns for the various constituencies that we work with. What type of facility is it? Is it a hub? Is it storing stuff there and then relocating it somewhere else? How does that work? That's right. We will accept materials, store them there, and then work with a hauling contractor to take the materials and then safely handle and dispose of them. This is something that we do several times over the course of summer in a mobile fashion. But that means that we don't have any place to service people's needs throughout the year. So this is something that the district has a lot of experience with. We know how to do this in terms of gathering and getting it safely to the right people. So we wouldn't have to necessarily learn how to do that. But by having our own facility, we can then learn a lot more about how to service the community and how to continue to do it safely. I did want to mention also that this year, because of COVID-19, at one point we had put a hold on all of our seasonal events. We have five each year. And I'm happy to report that we only had to reschedule one. But the other five, we're going to be able to take place in different parts of our district in the coming months. So we definitely want to let you know that Berrytown, which was one that was postponed from April, is now going to be held August 1, which is, I know, a popular location for folks from Berlin. And also in Montpelier, the last event of our season is September 26, at the Department of Labor. So those are the two that are closest for you folks. And I hope that you'll continue to attend those. It's possible when we have our facility in a couple of years that we would no longer offer one or both of those. And we're looking at, because of the proximity of the permanent facility, we're not sure that we would need to have all the seasonal events. So if they'd want to just let you know. And if you have thoughts about that, we'd certainly want to hear from you about those. How do you measure your program? Is it by the number of people that you're in, is it by pounds, is it by liquid gallons? How do you know if we're getting more and more every year? Are we getting less and less every year? Is it staying consistent? Well, we look at numbers of participants in events. And then also, usually it's liquid. So we're looking at volumes in terms of weight.  Well, it comes in two parts really. One, have you expanded the number of events that you hold? And two, have you seen an increase over the years in the number of gallons and the number of participants? Or has it kind of gone down as you hold more and more above the numbers? We've steadily, or at least the past eight or nine years, had five events. So that hasn't increased. The numbers have gone up and down. Last year, we had more participation in higher volumes at every event. So it really is something that is important to the public and that people want to have in place. We have a lot of numbers about what it looks like here over a year in terms of the number. But you keep very careful track of the number of people who come and where they're coming from and how much comes in. And the contractor who falls away has all those numbers. And what we see is sort of ups and downs, as Kathleen's saying, because the law may change when there may be something going on and or maybe, I think, when we didn't have an event. And so then you could see it starts pent up demand. It definitely happens and flows in a way that makes it different than, it's not like a marketplace.  It's more like you can see that the service is needed because people come back in different ways and different times and different configurations, but they keep coming. And clearly there's a need for the service. I mean, one of the problems a few years ago was that the lines were too long. And so we needed to figure out how to make it so that people wouldn't get frustrated or turned away or clogging up the logistics of it. So it's a constantly evolving sort of situation. From my position on the board, it's seeing staff deal with it. It's something that we have to keep adjusting year over year. Last year, in particular, there were a lot of pesticides that people brought to the events. And the state of Vermont and solid waste districts were really helping to educate people about the dangers of pesticides. And we think that that has had a role in people trying to bring those to events and maybe find alternatives to using pesticides. One last thing I'd add. So this is something that the district has been working up to or not working up to, but thinking about for a while. So one of the reasons why we have funds on reserve is because we've known that this is something that the state was going to want us to do, that our various towns. How many towns do we serve? 19? The 19 different towns are strung out through the central region. They've asked us to do this. So we've been saving up knowing that there was going to be something like this that really had to happen, whether it was this or the combination of the need to respond to the not so new recycling and waste reduction guidelines that are really coming into effect now. All these things, we knew that we were going to have to build something at some point because there was just no way around it. And so we've been circling around and coming to it. And now the state's provided some significant funding that helps us over the financial hump and other things are happening. It just seems like it's a good time to do this. So we weren't to do to figure out exactly where and how, but staff is working on it. And we'll have more for you in the next three to six months once more of these things get worked out. The question, not so much with the hazardous waste or anything, but was it going to require composting? What is happening with that? Well, right now we're poised for a state law, the last part of Act 138 to go into effect July 1st, which is to ban food scraps and other compostables from the landfill. And that law is scheduled to go into effect. There have been various discussions and testimony and different committees, but all indications are that that will be happening. And our solid waste district along with the state of Vermont and lots of other folks are trying to help people understand what that means and then educate people. I don't think the state has any intention of going right to enforcement, but really just helping people to understand, yes, this is in place now. And there are different ways that you can keep your food scraps out of the landfill and helping people take that term to make that happen. I did want to talk just for a couple more minutes if we have that time about the arc, with additional recyclables collection center in Berry City. I don't know if folks have been there, but we take a lot of materials that cannot be recycled in other ways. So it's not those materials you put in your blue bin container, but other types of materials. We closed for a couple months with COVID-19, but we are now open again. We are taking paint, batteries, bulbs, computer and TV electronics and food scraps there. And we hope by the middle of the summer that we'll be taking a lot more of the materials that people come on us to take it to heart. So, good one to let you know about that. What about the film plastic? We aren't, I'm not taking that now, but I expect we will be taking that again as we have them in the middle of the summer when we open up more fully. Who's asking about what kind of sausage bags? Plastic sausage bags. Yeah, we should be able to take those. They have to be clean. Yeah. And then we are doing curbside sales of compost equipment because our office, our main office in Montpelier is still closed to the public, but we've been doing weekly curbside compost sales at our location in various cities at the art. And we have another one of those scheduled next week. Our website has all the information about it at cbswmv.org. And we will continue to have these curbside sales as long as people are interested in buying the compost equipment. So that really was, just wanted to let you know, we also have quite a variety of seminars and videos on our website. We usually have on-site workshops, but those are on hold right now. So staff have been busy doing all kinds of webinars that you can get right at our website. So I just want to let you know about that. That's the, one of the only upsides is that so over the last couple of years, the district staff have done a huge amount of work to set up workshops and get things out in the community, whether it's in schools or with senior senators and with clubs and master gardener programs, all these different things. So they've been really out there in the community and they've been so busy they haven't had time to do the online version of these things. Well, so now they've had a chance to do more of the online stuff. And once things open up again, I think next summer, we're going to have a really, really robust program that's both in-person and online because it's been a really strong point of the district over the last couple of years. And so we're like all the other organizations we're making the best of it and trying to do what we can and move things into virtual and online. And then we'll have both when we can do both. Okay. Any questions for Kathleen or Matt? Thank you very much. I'm interested to know how COVID has affected your budget. Well, right now, we have seen maybe a slight decrease in our revenues and we're taking a very hard look at our expenses for FY 21 and really trying to do everything that we can to pair those back so that we'll be ready with as balanced a budget as we can once we get into next year. So we're ready if our income does decrease. So what percentage comes from tipping fees or income? Well, tipping fees or other kinds of fees about 80%. Right, so the vast majority of the district's income comes from how much garbage is tipped. So when the construction goes up and down, when home improvement goes up and down, we can see these things in our budget and people don't really know there's actually been some increases in some construction work, but it's kind of a mixed bag. So we're gonna approve our budget at our next meeting and the board is making sure that we've got good measures in place to make sure that we have a conservative budget and we're ready for what may come. But the district has done a good job of keeping our financial sheet really clean over the last few years and I think we're in a good position to handle whatever the upper down might be in the next 9, 12 months. Thank you. You're up and down, is that cyclical or is it just weather or? Well, certainly it's seasonal. We definitely have months where those revenues are lower in the colder months and to some extent it is based on the larger economy. Our theory at one time was that because more and more things were going to be recycled that our income would be increasing over time but that hasn't really proven to be the case. People are still purchasing and using all kinds of products and doing all kinds of shopping. I think maybe COVID-19 might change our pattern right now. So that's the sort of unanticipated alteration that I think we will also be seeing. At the end of the briefing here it says that the preliminary budget is set at 1.2 million. Is that up or down from last year? That's down from last year and actually since preparing this and working on the budget with one of our committees we've actually reduced our budget since that. But we're really, we're really doing everything we can to have a budget that is sustainable is coming in. On the other hand we also get grants often from national sources to do work on recycling and composting and community relations. Our district, we should be really proud. We're a leader in a lot of these issues and we don't do it because we want to be a leader. We do it because it's the right thing to do and because the communities want it. And so we get recognized for that and so we apply for grants to do more and we've been very successful in getting grants. So the budget, so to answer your question can go up and down because we got a $200,000 grant from the federal government to do an outreach project that has one and a half staff or something like that. So we have a short and we have a year where we have a bump because of that and then when the grant is up, everyone understands it's only for the grant. When it goes away, it goes away. And so then, so the budget has some ups and downs because of our funding stream partially coming from some of these pretty large grants that we've gotten over the last few years. But overall, the budget is held very, very much in check and again, it's getting smaller in the core budget at this time. The other question, sir? Matthew, you're mad? Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having us on the stage tonight and Matt said we'll be back when we have more news about our facility. Appreciate you both. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Josh Walker, Black Road dinner. Yeah, I think all of there's Josh. Yeah, come on up here, Josh. Hi, Josh. This side, please. Hi. So I don't know if you get the email with the information I had from the fire department in the state fire code about with my need for access to my property for my home and my rental property that I have at Black Road. And I was looking to up my maintenance agreement that the town put me at 16 feet and the fire department requires a two-vehicle width down through when the state fire code is 20 feet clear. And I actually called Keith today. Okay. And because I was revealing this letter. Did you all, I hope you all got that letter. Did you all get the letter in the stuff from the fire, the state fire code? Yeah. The stuff that I dropped for Dana. That's it. Okay. Yeah, I called Keith and asked him what this letter actually meant because it left some clear width of 20 feet. He said the trucks are the minimum of seven and a half feet wide. So to get them by what he has up there now is. What I have up there now is a 12 feet of gravel surface and two feet on each side for snow banks and for maintenance. So the 20 feet would need to be kept clear. So I was looking to get a minimum of 25 feet. So I would have maintenance area and place for snow. Where, where are we at? I mean, I think I know where we're at with our road policies as well. What's the towns right of way through there? 449. 449. Yeah, I mean, there's a town right away in there. We did winter maintenance on it this year. Yeah, I didn't know. Some old roads aren't necessarily three rods. So I wasn't sure. Yeah, that one is. And I want to thank you for the road maintenance this year. It worked out fine for me. I was hoping that it would continue. I don't know what I need to do to have that continue. If that falls into the reclassification of the road to a class three or what that entails. Another year of trial or what the board thinks we should do about that. It was nice not having anybody stuck in my, in the access on the town road to get to my property this winter. Never happened one time this year. So that was great. Can't say for the same for the last month or so people have been parking and not being able to get into my driveway. Who's been parking there? I did see that picture. Who was parking there? I'm not sure. There was a car there. I don't know if it was a friend of my neighbors. Or who it was. I know my neighbors are there. House after sale. If it was someone looking at the property and they just put their car in park and left it there. Okay. But it's also happened just a few days ago where there was some, they have a lawn crew, which thought that they would leave their vehicle right in the middle of that road and where I couldn't get through either. And then when I went around the vehicle staying in the town right of way and a little while later the Berlin Police Department shows up in my house. Saying I was doing malicious behavior or that the neighbors reported me saying I was doing malicious behavior when I went around the vehicle that was parked. And nobody around, trailer there, gate down and I have pictures in my phone. If you need to say them that, I'll be bleeding. And that was one of three times that actually it's happened this spring where there's been a vehicle left unattended so I couldn't get through. Somebody who probably walking black road. That's kind of something I probably don't know. Dana, do we have an estimate on what it cost to walk wide in the road? To bring it up to 49 feet, I don't have that, no. No, we had had Tim in here before and he said it really wouldn't cost anything that the road's grandfathered, the bases there. It's an existing road. I had originally, I've lived there for 22 years. I originally had an agreement for maintaining the whole road tax as my property and a few years ago, that's a problem my neighbors and they came and complained and the town dropped me down to 12 feet. But I don't have a reason and I never got a reason. I didn't know if there were trees growing up on one side. There was actually a big line of maple trees growing down one side but those are barely still in the right of way. Most of the right of way when you're going down is on the right hand side and the existing road base is there other than after the town stopped me from maintaining and just left me with 12 feet it all got seeded and topsoiled and made into lawn. Tell me, what do you remember about these conversations of the expense to as far as?  You fixed it up for your old access. And that's the agreement I had when I originally got the permit from the town to do it. I was gonna bring it up and I was gonna maintain it right through. And then when it got listed on a GPS for people getting directions to Northfield the river is starting to send in traffic down that road. And so then it's when the issue came up that people were getting stuck and get out of there. So that's when that was, that's when, you know took a while but the town ended up starting to maintain it so that would cease. But we always had a maintaining it here, what? Last year? Last year was the first year that you had maintained it, yeah. That was just for the winter. Just for the winter. So if this were to be widened out to what we were looking for, 25 feet? 25 feet, yeah. So 20 feet of surface what the fire department recommends in the state fire code is would be 20 feet of surface gravel surface. And then couple feet each side for snow banks and for drainage, you know, for so that the water doesn't have to be directed right down the road. I mean, my concern with this is just the fact that we, it seems like in general the zoning, if we're gonna allow somebody to have a permit for a second residence or to add an additional dwelling unit, I feel as though these things should be taken into consideration prior as well. And so this should have been almost something we discussed before with the approval of that permit because it's a recommendation from the fire department. That's something that had come up in the past meetings and it was gonna wait until you get a permit or then wait until you get a signed lease and then wait until it was this and wait until that. So now there's somebody living there so it's time to take care of it. And I don't see the town having to have a big expense to do it. I would gladly help do what it takes to get that done. That's what my agreement was with the town originally. Well, I would, I mean, for me, this is one way or the other, either you've got to 20 feet and you maintain it or the town maintains it to the 20 feet. What I see here is a liability issue. If it's a cooperative effort between you and the town, then I can see bad things happen. Okay? You know, it just, it's nothing against your judge. Just the way it is. Yeah. So other than that, just to decide who would be maintaining the road. If you want to stay with the old agreement, that would be you to maintain the road. Well, the thing is with the old agreement and me maintaining the road, now that there's a dead-end road sign right at the end of it, now that it's on a GPS, which wasn't in something that was around back four years ago. And I'm telling you, it's every day now. It's every day now that I'm seeing someone come down and turn around down there, a minimum of one. And I don't know if that could be because of the neighbors have their property for sale right now and it's attracting more people to come down. I don't know what it is, but definitely a lot of traffic coming down there. And it could be because of the walking around the pond. I see a lot of people walking up and down that road now, biking, you know, if it is a class four road. You're not seeing any people parking down there or walk. Do you know parking down there or walk? Nope. When I see the shotgun come out on my horse, I'm just seeing that. No, I just can't take it. Well, what's the pleasure of the board? I would like to see it. I mean, I think that's why we have this policy in place. I just want to make sure we have the procedure down to do it. So I don't think that we've been looking at building out a policy for the class four roads in the area, even upgrade, downgrade, class three, class four. I think this is a topic that I mean, there's a lot of little class four roads around here that have potential for a huge development. And if somebody was going to put a development on one of these back roads that we can use the grandfather ability to bring it up to class three in the proper widths, minimal expense. I think that's something we should absolutely consider. I don't think that we should have permitted it, without having accessibility on the town highway to get fire trucks in there for a rental property. So, that's just my thought. Well, the thing here is the agreement we had with Josh was that he was to fix it, originally it was to fix it up and maintain it. Do we want to take in, do we have Josh do the work or should we just have the town build it? That's a great question. Tim. It's a really good question, because I was actually going to refer back to the 2017 when the topic, and that was before my time on the board, but the topic at that point in time was class four and ownership. So, it was before my time, when the ownership portion of it was discussed. And then I was looking at the documentation that we've had to review. And, you know, I think the ownership aspect, as well as who's going to maintain it is really what it boils down to, in my mind. It's different property owners that own, so there would be three different butters on that road that would be ownership of the road. Okay. Yeah. We'll technically, four parcels, right? Well, it's four parcels, but I own two of the parcels. So, what it is, it comes down into a T. I have a property on the left hand on the right. Okay. So, in. And then the road continues, but it's unimproved. Tim would be able to answer your question, so what the expense would be to get that road to get a road to a 20-foot width clear pass. Road width. Huh? Road width. 20-foot wide? Yeah. Well, it's not going to take a whole lot. The only problem is we got a little bit of ledge in one place there, but other than that, it's just going to have to strip it back and. And the ledge is just in one spot? Well, it's the only place I've ever seen. Okay. It is at one spot, Tim, and I think they did that with an excavator, with a hammering end of it. You know, because I was thinking that. Well, yeah, we're at one of them because we don't have one. Yeah, or I might be able to get one to have that, at least that part of the work done. That's the only problem of putting a ditch down through there so that you got a good drainage. Is that ledge? Yeah. And I had some of the trees cut last year. Yeah. I personally think the town should probably do the work if we are going to widen it. If there's different property owners there that sounds like there's some different perspectives on road width and driving around each other. And it would be, it may be a headache for one landowner to widen the road past another landowner's property may cause some issue. It would be more proper, in my view, if the town did that. I'm elaborate. Any thoughts, Tim? What you guys want? I mean, it's not like it's two or three miles long, either. It's not very far. And the first part of it is pretty good as a start. Like I said, one place is the ledge. Yeah, and I think there'd be like maybe one tree maybe that would need to come down on the same side, right by that ledge. Yeah. Ledges on the left as you go down through. On the right, right going down through. Right going down. Right on the end of the lawn. Yeah. Move back in the room. Right where the story went, what is it right now, right? Hope that we're by on lawn. Maybe while Tim's here, what should we do about maybe getting another year of winter maintenance? Or is this going to change if this approves, this would automatically change that, that the town is taking that section of road back over and I won't have to get approval for winter maintenance again for this coming winter? I think what we need to do with that is look at our class four to three road policy because I really don't think we should get it finalized. Yeah, I don't think we should be talking about that right now. Oh, I think you're separate. Yeah. Okay. And I think winter. I thought that Tim was here, but he didn't get an opportunity to. Sure. You're going to be here once in a while, so. Huh? I would make a motion that we wind in the road to 20 feet. I'll second that motion. Any further discussion? So with a 20 feet, that gives me a 20 foot width and then if anything arises that I would call the town for maintenance along the edge of the road about drainage, you know, about the way the water runs down the road. So I think where your motion was, 20 feet of clear road. Clear road. And then a couple feet each side further to put snow. And the town will maintain the. Yeah, I'm talking about, you know, following the spec here to make sure two cars can get by each other. Yep. Safely. My second still stands. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Any date? Any kind of idea when this may. We'll have to leave it at the table and then he's got to do the work. Right? Before he goes down there. All right. I don't think it can happen before I get done. As I got other projects going that I'd like to see to get done. Well, let's just leave it before October. What is construction season stop? And not here? Over North. Normally. Normally. And the ground freeze is really, it's pretty much weather related. Yeah, it's weather related. And if you're talking about paving or not, well, I'll have to pave you. Probably. Probably the next week. Yeah. Probably have to take a seat about we'll have to take a seat. Move it back to probably November 1st. Have it done before November 1st is possible. Okay, anything else? I think that's good. Oh, one other thing. I hope I can get bothered about this is a whole different subject. It was the Stoneville Trail. Again, back down Black Road and Brookfield Road. Remember the last year we came and we tried to get approval in the town. It proved us all the way up to Black Road up to my property. And we were wondering, we're still trying to get it to go up over Downing Road up over the mountain over to Northfield. And the conservation committee needs the bridge redone up there. And I have talked with Bass and as a matter of fact, they had called me back today and said that they would donate the steel beams that they need to go across that stream there. And they were really hoping that maybe you would reconsider letting the Stoneville Trail go down this section of Black Road which we were going to really try to get off the road and onto the side where the logging has been. It's all cleared down through and I don't know where the right of way of the town is there. And if we can stay in the town right of way about off the road and then just go for that little short section of Brookfield Road. It's just something to chew on maybe for a while. I know it wasn't something on the agenda but since the guy called me today I said I was going to be at a meeting tonight and I would bring up that the Snowmobile Club would do a lot of the work to have that bridge readown. Josh, the section of Brookfield Road that you're talking about is to the trailhead to Black Road? To the trailhead to Black Road. Yeah. And if there's any other way we can get around there I've been trying and trying with the landowners and it's quite an issue with the City of Montpelier because the City of Montpelier owns both sides for a ways there and they really pretty much slammed the door in my face about getting on to their property. Would they be willing to come to maybe one of the next meeting or a meeting after? I can try. What I'll do is I'll go and speak with the city administrator or whatever it would be that I need to talk to for the City of Montpelier because I'm a leader. I'm not talking about the people from Bass. Oh, they absolutely would. Yeah. But they don't want to, I mean they were even saying you know whether or not we can get the trial we just assume and help the conservation committee and we would donate the beams. I was there when they said they would help. They said that they would help and get the beams as long as like someone else would pay for the trucking to get them up there. But they would donate the beams and then through the other you know committees you know through VAST the local snowmobile clubs the conservation committee I'm sure we could come up with a few thousand dollars to deck it and you know build the bridge and there's plenty of volunteers out there would do do it all the labor for free. When we went up I don't know where it gets off a little bit but when we went up and put the decking on temporarily on that Phil was there and Tom and Josh Oh, the first one to look at it and the gentleman from Bass and he brought up a good point actually regardless of whether or not snowmobile traffic can go through there with that trail head pretty good idea to be able to get a tractor through if you need to do any repairs or anything up there. Maybe a little mini excavator up there to do the water virus water virus and brush odds to do that because I know they've tried to brush out of the fields and they have a hard time getting Jim Chandler has brought his up through the woods and back ways and you know to just get up there to try to brush out some of this stuff and he's getting kind of old and I don't know if he's going to be able to continue doing that. Well let's see if we can get it on the agenda for one of the upcoming meetings and have that be here as well and maybe the conservation committee at the same time would be good to invite. I agree. I want to thank you for helping with fix the bridge at least temporarily. Don't know what trouble there's been. I've been up there going up there for years and I'd like to see that stay open and I'd like to have access myself. That's what we've got to do. Okay. Can I come down? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Josh. Yeah. Speak to that for sometime in July. Okay. That gives enough notice for landowners and residents if they want to attend. Okay. Discussion of the road grayer. Did the did caterpillars say why they thought there was a spike in copper? It's not caterpillar. It's an oil copper. Yeah. And did they give you any idea why would you just just copper? That's what killed me was you would take a look. He said that a lot of your rings are copper now. Well a lot of those are banjo fitting and they use copper compression rings to hold the pressure. But I was wondering if I mean the only thing that was high was copper. Everything else was well within spec and I was thinking maybe even the oil cooler. If that was a copper oil cooler. It's true. They just called me that a lot of the a lot of it they feel is stress on the on the cylinders. So I don't know if he's talking about bearings and sleeves. The only thing I'm confused about is that copper was way out of way out of lack. The rest of the oil was falling. Resolutely speaking. So I was just wondering why it would give such a high reading in copper. I don't know much about it but I just grabbed a copper and it had the equipment met and it said sometimes it was just natural wear in the cooler. You see like bearings the bearings you have copper tin there's a lot of different metals in the bearing. You know there's basically a glorified bad bit bearing as all they are and you'd have a lot of different metals that should be high too. But all you have is copper. I guess you'd have to talk to a mechanic that works on if I've never torn more in part. So you sent the oil sample in got it tested that's their feedback there that you didn't speak to. Well I have talked to a mechanic who opened Southworth he's a mechanic for the city of Barry now but he used to work at Hillmountain for years and he said that those engines may get up around between 55 and 7,000 hours you're going to start having trouble with the bearings and end up rebuilding the motor. He said that's just common and all of them not just cap because Norfield's greater must have been double. I think when I was there when I left there it was about 1000 hours on it and shortly after I left later they had put a new motor on it. How much would it cost to proactively rebuild the motor? I don't know. Before something major happens do it have it have a fresh rebuild it? The only thing is is that you've got other problems with it too and we've already we've already got an estimate from Caterpillar there and that was over $50,000. For all the other things wrong with it? Yeah. That includes tires? More is real bad when I was telling Dana the other day when I was grading with it you can see it it just goes like this all the time and then people wonder why your roads are choppy it's just it's just I mean there's shims and everything else in there and we've been really good about putting new ones in and keeping it shimmed up but it's going on out I mean it's going that works hard and it's in the dirt all the time later and you we've had one front wheel replaced already the quite old planetary thing in the front wheel and that was almost $5,000 and the other one's getting really noisy when I ran it today grading here in our hill it was quite a bit of halloween when we purchased that when we purchased it used correct I think it was a rental Gary Markham told me that he thought it was a rental did he have that many hours on it? 63 on result was 63 hours on it oh no 63 I don't know how many hours on it when they got it what did that be I don't care though that's why I figured it probably was a rental because it didn't have a whole lot of hours on it how much is the new grader? well he gave us a rough estimate it was 300 and something thousand what was the trading on this one? he just gave me a budget thing he didn't get right down to give it told what he'd give us for it but it was 65,000 trading but you're not going to get that from data pillar because they know what's wrong with it do we owe anything left on it? did we owe anything on it? yeah we don't we've had that it's been paid off a couple of years now so we've got I think it's been paid off about five years it was in that group that we had all the time I mean I'm leaving but it's bad need Tim's a $50,000 that he told you the guy gave you a figure of $50,000 it was a little over it was over 50,000 and what was his do I understand right when he said what would $50,000 do? well that was new tires which was 10 grand so there's 10 left rebuild them on board pull the transmission because there's no parking brake and right now the parking brake is flashing all the time but it hasn't come on but I don't know what's going to happen you shut it off sometimes and it'll go away and don't come back on the next time you put it back in gear to fix the front wheels fix the articulating pistons and bearings and stuff and he said that he asked me if we'd had any trouble with the the planetary's and the rear ends which we haven't I mean we haven't had nothing there but who's to say I mean I only told him what I knew was wrong with that so when they pulled you all sampled they just did it for the motor they didn't do it for the transmission no well the reason the transmission's got to come out because the parking brake's inside of it yeah and he said the only way they can fix it is to pull the transmission you have to take it right down now to fix it so after they do all that there's no warranty and we can still have issues right probably 6 months if that 60 days maybe they aren't too generous with their warranties and I didn't get a price from Kat when Dana asked me to get a price so that we could have a ballpark figure for budget John Geerich Salesman stopped a couple days after him and I talked so I had him look at it and everything and then he got back to me with the what they give us and what a new one is but he's new the salesman's new and I don't think that he probably really knows because municipality gets a wicked discount and the service guy Kat told me that too he said you know so it could be even cheaper than but he pulled us for a price what's the savings well we put $250,000 in for FY21 but we hadn't exactly said what we're going to put it but it's not like I've got the cash to pay for that even in July we're going to have to have at least one payment come in from the taxpayers for me to have that coming cash you mean to pay for it cash to pay with cash correct right now we've got $80,000 with the payment and other equipment if we end up borrowing money for that one we're going to weigh over 100,000 for them what would that do to us to pay the entire thing in cash as far as the fall I mean I'd have to fight you know you'd have to have the money bought obviously nothing to have that for a while so what I'm hearing you say is that we wouldn't have the money to buy a new grader anyways until after September I agree and depending on how we collect money with this COVID thing that's another big big issue that's the big dip for me but you're correct because what happens with the first payment that we have normally in the past is a lot of people pay for the entire year so I have you know usually a good amount of cash by September but I don't dare say I'm going to have that because I don't know right and the trouble is if they pay I mean we appreciate it all at once but they're not going to be paying it in the installments on the go forward so so it kind of sounds like just based on what Tim told us two weeks ago when we were here we need those tires now right I mean those tires aren't going to last this December well I have a spare over there so that's better safe than what's on the front but right now but that's only one I mean we might be able to make it through the only thing is the front ones are just moving us can we get away with this the front end of it does more big in than the back end because the back is so much heavier I mean you can't grade these roads not in this town anyways in two wheel or just the rear wheels you just can't do it they're so hard what just doing the front tires right now makes sense if we're considering our options oh we could do just two front tires and I mean like I said I got a spare over there that's way better than the ones that are on it right now because they they have a brand new spare there and when I bought tires last time I only bought five and I put that new spare on so save us buying another tire and then I saved one of the better ones as a spare Diane would we have $50,000 or $60,000 that we could potentially I mean right now I'm doing okay with cash I know what we need to have to get me through July and probably you know what we'd like to think I would have that available what about I know the truck dealerships are doing it and I think the equipment dealers are doing the same thing is leasing it for a year and then at the end of the year you purchase it well I think probably the first thing the dealers get a first price I can check into what a lease is in a lot of towns just lease them they don't purchase they just they just lease them five years with the workings of the swap one is this a lease that at the end of the term you buy it for a certain amount or yeah I think the lease the lease for the the first year goes towards the purchase and then for that year if you want to buy it I'll just let it go back it's a good way to try it out we are in a financial situation there's only there's only there's only two two graders now Bobo is no longer making a grater they had so much trouble with theirs they stopped building them and there's just Cat and John Deere there's Case too but Cases and there's they're not that big of a machine so you you only have the two to take it give you estimates that's Cat and John Deere yeah there's quite a few Roxbury just got a new John Deere and Wienstown just got a new Cat last year there's something around here that I could go look at after you know Roxbury likes to John Deere and I guess Cat Wienstown likes to Cat well I still think probably the first they do is just get a firm price we do what we're talking about so we can see if you want me to ask him about the lease part I mean the lease is going go towards the purchase towards the purchase if you purchase it would that be any different than if we borrowed the money and had a down payment you'd have to pay well do we buy a truck where we didn't make the payment till after we got the truck that we took it but we paid for it later on you bought trucks where the first payment would come a year later we've done that a few times that's right so potentially I mean if we could work something like that however it's you're going to you're going to feel it in the next budget year well you know if you are going to convert it at some point then you are going to be obligated to pay for it I guess I'm just trying to say the whole amount of your lease is a lease really obviously they lease to make money and I've got it but you know are we in the same situation if we're paying the lease or if we're paying the down payment I'm just you know not all of the lease would go towards the down payment office no how much of the cost of the greater did we borrow last time that was before my time but I think what they did was they borrowed I think all of it at that point in time and then they rolled it over into another loan later I made about three pieces of equipment on one loan I think they took about five years to pay off anyways what year is that greater 2007 so it's a bit greater it's lasted yeah I mean we've had to spend a little money in the last couple of years it sounds like it's been paid off for a while well maybe what you need to start with like you said is to get a firm price so you know what you're talking about firm price and probably probably the financing options too for comparison is there any merit to following up any further with this estimated $50,000 repair and I don't realize it's nothing guaranteed in that people they said to take and run it for a service and then retest yes yeah I just serviced it well how often do you service it every 300 hours huh how often do you service every 300 hours does that 250 250 that's six weeks six weeks I think 100 hours on it since they serviced we have $80,000 a year in loans for highway equipment is that right right now well 10,000 of it has to do with this building okay I'm sorry alright 70,000 so if we paid say with $250,000 for the last one took us five years to pay off so we're paying $50,000 a year we fix it we can get a couple of years out of it but it's a little bit of a gamble but not knowing I mean we're we're you know if this was last year it seems like we'd say you know let's let's do it you know let's let's buy a new one but I think there's a bunch of you know unpredictable things going on that are a little scary financially for everyone right well as you know so many of our costs are fixed well they're not though right well if you borrow money they are right you told me they were all fixed and when I look they're not necessarily fixed but many costs are fixed and I hear what you're saying I'm not arguing with you but we've got $70,000 in loan obligation now uneasy about having it at $120,000 I'd be really uneasy about having $370,000 well I would do and we need this piece of equipment it's very important I agree I agree with him you know so why is this one breaks down what happens the the least one you'd have to you'd have to rent one I guess rent one and how accessible are those so if we do the last time we had troubles we'd rent uh Du Bois they don't even have them they sold theirs they sold theirs yeah they Jeff Newton talked when he heard that we were talking if he saw it from the flight he didn't want but about buying hours he said that he'd like to he'd be interesting in buying hours great $200,000 I think I think this reinforces my point a little bit you know private business versus town is private business is going to put another 6 or 7 thousand hours on that thing put a little bit of money into it but they're not going out you know they don't use it though I ran Du Bois this greater for the last 2 years in the summertime forum I did parking lots and driveways and roads and stuff on weekends and our days off on Fridays and they had somebody that really wanted it in the Hampshire so they sold it and replaced it yet but I mean I was the only one that used it I haven't I don't remember seeing the repair estimate for the 50,000 was that before I haven't seen it either Tim we've got that did you email you that or anything I thought I gave it to you Dana no you told me that it was $50,000 that might be something we should have him we should do it because he said he was going to email it to me but I don't know that's what you said to me yeah I want to take a look at that well I take and have the testing company retest the oil change the oil and then retest it well run it run it till for another 100 hours 150 hours and then take and retest it I mean that was their recommendation wasn't it yeah it just seems odd to me that it was just copper you know bearing materials so many metals true well it does suggest in there to redo it yeah great well it doesn't it also doesn't hurt to take a look at what a get a firm price on a new one too absolutely so we know what we're talking about right yeah so and what it would entail some very specific information exactly yeah because if the oil if the oil comes back and it's it is bad and the motor is showing signs of wear then be nice to be able to have that option to get you know see what it's going to cost keep it doing exactly because what happens if the greater breaks down the roads go to hell I don't want to be the one taking the fall golf but I mean this happens in towns right I mean greater breakdown yeah equipment breaks down I'm not saying that you know we want that to happen or we should allow it to happen but I'd be interested in you know what it would cost to rebuild the motor is it you know a $10,000 job or a $20,000 great job a lot of that depends on what if you have what they do an in chassis or if you have to take it out and remand mm-hmm they've done they've done the top part of it got all new injectors and new injector pump that cost us I don't know it was $8,000 when was that done Tim? last year well then no wasn't that long ago no two years ago two years because if you have an in chassis done basically what they're doing is they're putting your rods main bearings and popping the pistons out changing them and your cylinders and doing the head work with valves and whatnot maybe have it remand completely then they pull it out and they test all the metal work for fatigue and everything else mm-hmm truck motors they'll take and remand they'll do an in chassis on those things three or four times and pull it out to be completely done but I would say I mean my point of view would be just take and have the go another to the recommendations on the oil testing company and then take and just get a price on a new grader and so we have an idea of what we're looking at mm-hmm so I don't know if you need a vote on that or if you just want to have the Tim get the numbers I don't think you need to vote right now I think we can go forward we're not going to take and be doing any any big expenditure you might be annoyed if we had a new grader in the garage and then we could mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm okay anything else on this temp thank you Tim mm-hmm okay thank you Tim uh signatures of uh approved all hazard mitigation plans yes you approve the all hazards plan I think it was the May 18th meeting and I did not have you sign the signature card the signature so if you would do that for me did we move the um warrants and payroll to a different part of the agenda uh no it's it's just you haven't done it yeah it's so I'll change the oil this week uh when the recommendation was just running to the for the for the usual time right it says uh change oil and filters if not already done re-sample at the normal into interval sort of there 130 hours or 150 hours I believe I have an old there I'm using one I put one on like that on the warrants do it oh you do okay do it is there is there any way you want it is there any way they tell do they pass transmission to the two thank you I don't I don't think there's anything longer because uh it's just yeah it's in the transmission and then your box is getting a little sloppy it just kind of it just kind of flops around you don't know what year you're in and the dash all burned out so you just fill in the number of clicks you go in the gear yeah oh yeah you're in I've had cars like that okay so let's see here um the cb fiber yes um cb fiber has asked for a letter of support and they gave a sample which I'm going to find very shortly um flow had suggested a revision on the last sentence which I went ahead and did so I'm going to get myself organized here there we go sorry um so um you've all read the letter and basically the change was at the end the last sentence says and this was the final suggestion this grant is essential to enable cb cb fiber to advance their concerted efforts to fill the evident need for high speed broadband to our entire community and um they are asking for the board to send this letter Dana for the people on tv can you tell us who the recommendation is going to is going to the um for a grant this is cb fiber is the um entity that is working on bringing internet throughout Berlin and the area the central Vermont area that are unserved by broadband and it's going to the office of the federal co-chair northern border regional commission in conquered New Hampshire with a copy to the deputy of commerce and community development and the letter if it helps I'll read the letter bear with me this is a letter of support for cb fibers grant application for their northern border regional commission application for an economic and infrastructure development investment program grant for the construction of a pilot high speed internet project of their recently completed feasibility study the town of Berlin is a member of the cb fiber communications union district we are in urgent need of high speed broadband for the future vitality of our community the current COVID-19 pandemic has greatly increased the urgency for this project the current services if offered at all are totally inadequate the need is urgent we have local businesses who need high speed internet to stay competitive many students and teachers are at a huge disadvantage trying to stay up with class work it is essential to support telehealth the new norm is high speed internet at every premises the project would increase the accessibility of high speed internet which we contend is necessary for all Vermonters including rural areas development investment program to construct phase one pilot project the grant is essential to enable cb fiber to advance their concert efforts to fill the evident need for high speed broadband to our entire community very truly yours select board of Berlin who would be sounding it Brad I've got it so since you're all here make the motion that we approve the cb fiber letter of support and each of us decided here a second I'm just curious I don't have a pose to it necessarily but I just want to know what is the phase one and will it be completed if they get this grant or what can we expect as a result this was I guess it was the liaison our representative as you know is Jeremy Hansen to cb fiber and the alternate is Jerry Diamanties and Jerry is on this committee working on the this grant aspect of it so I correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the end result is to get broadband service in Berlin right now phase one I can't tell you the phase I do not I'm just saying will it be completed or will I know I'm just curious I this I think in order to do it properly we need a second to kind of keep discussing it's okay that would be here a second I'll second so sorry I'll just say that you know I think there's 17 towns maybe that have joined this consortium so to speak or this CUD they call it which is a union district communication union district and so it doesn't necessarily Berlin's going to go first or in phase one we could be three years from now potentially they look at the towns with the most need the towns that are most excited about build up the towns that have the most people and square mile where they can serve and start to build revenue back to fund other projects that's a lot like the EV fiber down in I call it southern Vermont but it's really central southern and it's been a pretty good project and they're a pretty good business model they've brought fiber to a lot of homes really added service to an area that just completely lacked service so I think it has a lot of merit to the project doesn't cost the Berlin taxpayers anything from the Berlin tax rolls these grants are through the agency commerce and community state budget and through federal grants me as a member of the cabinet I will be abstaining just so there's no appearance of any conflict but it's something I certainly support even if Berlin doesn't go right away it will serve from honors that desperately do need it Are you for the discussion? All those in favor? Aye Aye Aye Motion carries a little abstention Locate data Tapping of the town forest Yes Well some time ago Justin had given me I guess an email regarding Northfield Taps sells taps for trees Lease taps for trees for the maple sugaring season and coincidentally enough this week I received a telephone call Joe Mangum who happens to also be our vendor for the cemeteries saying that he's the guy that rents the taps from Northfield and he would like to rent taps from us I told him I would have to talk to the board about it and the same day I heard from J.C. Earl from the conservation commission who was telling me that he believes that tapping trees harms them and takes away from their value This is obviously maple syrup season isn't tomorrow but it's something I think we need to talk about a little further if you're going to give Mr. Mangum an answer Well when you do tap trees it enlarges the heart wood which the people who are vine logs for lumber are looking for the sap wood which is the white wood That's probably what he's telling me Yeah So there are friends with an individual that is he works for with UBM and so they'll have a different forestry division that's actually looking at it from non-lumber and actually how to improve your forest or how to improve your sugar woods to optimize your sap production So that's what sparked me I thought it was I think it's a revenue possible revenue stream for the entire state And I know Northfield did it from when I was actually up on one of the trails one day I couldn't believe I saw lines on Northfield town forest So I don't know who this gentleman is that approach Well I know the gentleman I mean he's done what I don't know I haven't calculated what the revenue would be Right And also I would like to go up there and see where we're talking about I mean you know just because Absolutely I think we should wane or wade rather he would be good he works with UBM he would probably he won't have a discussion with the board about pros and cons of it as well Well I think you'd want to keep the conservation commission involved The only nice thing about tapping is you get income every year whereas logging you get it every 15 Right Right And there's one offset the other Who knows You know what I mean though If it devalues the wood to a certain extent are you making that up with the revenue over here in the annual revenue I don't know that much about When are we going to log it I actually We're selling the set Right We're selling the serve Yeah Because you got all your other added into the into the process Right So I think Norsefield leases for a dollar or a dollar 50 a tap I mean caps the idea a lot Yeah It's sizable It's huge Dana could you get a copy of the Norfield contract Yeah So we could see what they're getting and look through it I would love to get a good report Thanks You almost have to have a force or cruise the cruise the area and get an estimate on the number of taps that could support Yeah Or UVM Yeah Because different sized trees can hold a different number of taps Yeah Where is the town's force up on your shelf It's up next to the Norfield town force up near the tower Yeah So actually Berlin hit Norsefield Yeah It's already right there so he would obviously be hasn't he just for someone to pick up I believe that was his intent Yes So I think you would just want to make sure that it was Well I I know I saw Bud Matheson which he lives in Berlin and he had tapped it into part of Berlin I think by accident and he took him down and I saw that on Norfield Swinton's meeting How long ago was that Oh Years or months Yeah I think it's given the uncertainty as a time you know it's another thing that should look at additional ways to generate I mean Well look into that Nathan I will ask Norfield for the air Anything else on this? No not really Okay Approval of licenses, permits, vouchers, applications I make the motion to approve general funds account payable warrant number 20G22 with checks 20 229 222 46 and the amount of $49,501 warrant 20-24 for payroll from May 10, 2020 to May 23, 2020 paid on May 27, 2020 in the amount of $40,288 and 53 cents Second by the motion Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor? Aye Motion carries Approval of Berlin's of the cents of 504 2020 If the motion is approved to approve the select board minutes from May 4 and May 18, 2020 Second? Yup Doing them both at same time? Okay Do I hear a second? Yeah I second Okay Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye Aye Those opposed? Motion carries Does everybody hear for the use? Do we also need to approve the May 12? I don't see that listed I didn't list it but there is May 12 in there I make the motion that we approve the special meeting Tuesday May 12, 2020 as well Second Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye Motion carries See your town minister has reported it Yes I've got a couple things I want to talk to you about and one is earlier on this town road policy last time we talked about it it was in a Zoom meeting and quite frankly it was very difficult for me to understand what was being said I got two things that the board had thought about at that time and that was how many residents would generate the town taking over a road and we're trying to tie that in with the zoning code so I talked to Tom about it at length and said how many what happens and so as far as what the zoning code he says is that after so many residents it has to be brought up to the standards that the town the town standards and that way it would be ready if the town were to accept it but that's not necessarily the case he cautioned about us putting a number in our policy because it would necessitate us to accept a road and I could see that fear bringing it up to town standards is different than upgrade of an already existing class board road we're talking about going from private to public right I am now yeah yeah so that was that was the answer on that and so I put on public to public but the number of long units is a recommendation on upgrade of an existing class board road he did not because that is not in the zoning code so we have a driveway standard so I mean I think we're so what I'm saying to you is I think it's going to be this board that's going to decide if it comes down to a number and if it comes down for number we're obligated by the agreement that the town has to bring roads up to the state standards that we agreed to live by for our new roads when the board had the funding but that didn't mean that all our roads had to be at the standards and of course they're not but new ones do need to be from the go forward well new roads for the most part the only new roads you're going to see is a development right and that is covered here that's yeah the problem comes with when Hiroshima builds a house out in the pasture and then his son builds one next to it it's going to have a sub divider and slowly you start to you develop a community out there but there's no private to public on the road on the access now we had one up on Byte Street which one was that road Berlin Heights that was put in years and years ago it finally the residents finally took it and wanted us to take it over which was in the contract when they built the development and then they took in we went up there and boarded the road and met the standards I wasn't here then they had just taken it over before I came met the standards so we took it over well Jeff came to me right after you hired me here and wanted me to go down and look at it when I went down there the road was way lower than the lawns so I told them I said they're going to have to do something about that I tried to agree with that so they put on six inches more gravel and got the road up so it was up above the lawns a little because it was just going to be a problem of what it was going to be but I mean what I envisioned being the problem would be the the people who build out on a private road with no thought to having the road up to a standard right but that's not a class four to a class three road that's a different we already know the road that's I'm talking specifically like I thought this discussion was on class four to class three upgrade I think we have I guess that's what I'm asking you know you know how do you how do you want to handle that I think we have some of these class four roads in town that people could develop on where if we're going to allow them to develop we they're I just I was thinking what I would do and I need some help with this that I would send you is in the V-Trans Orange Book on which I think is quite helpful and but there are some decisions that you as a board would need to make well I think it's important that going from class four to class three is that the zoning people make it clear to the people building on those roads that it'll be up to them to bring it up to a standard and I think that's great the liaison now to that committee I mean that would be a big help so but to me that's the important thing is so that the town doesn't you don't have these build-outs that the town gets hit with a bill on the road and that's why I was thinking of it the specific reason for dwelling units before a distance would be an example would be like a black road where it's really minimal but if somebody were to build four or five six houses out there it would probably make financial sense for the revenue you generate from the taxes and as a builder it makes those properties more valuable you know just being on the class three road you'll solve a quick area of the road or that's all I was thinking just for using I mean obviously that's why I was thinking of a distance obviously if it's a mile of class four road yeah with three dwelling units at the very end it doesn't make sense and that's why I wanted a specific number in there or I thought well a certain density yeah that's what I thought made sense I think they do use density here three lots or six dwelling units something like that yeah so we should we should try to at least keep a uniform with that I would think yeah because I mean the road I'm thinking of is we had a discussion a little while ago it was West Hill over to where Benji is yep over through because there was somebody was putting in the camp and somebody was putting in a really nice camp and you know on West Hill on West Hill yeah just beyond well who was it it was a last house Wilcox yeah Wilcox well he's not the last house now but but we we did have that discussion about that up there yeah because they they came and asked me if it was a trail or a class four yeah is it still a class four or is it a trail I think it's a trail yeah they downgraded it and blocked the walk because they didn't want people out right so the trail even so there was somebody to build a camp out there I believe he wants to yeah he came and talked to me yeah okay he wanted to know what he'd have to do to get it so that the town would maintain it and I said well that's something you're going to have to talk to you see there's yeah so that's I mean I think we need to work on one you know there's very different policies you must have been here when they built the house on the other and build them by venues is that there's a house up in there yeah and there's another end of that yeah trail I don't know I didn't really they built a house with that in there oh yeah yeah put in a wicked culvert but you see you see there's where you know if another house goes on that road out there a little bit further then we're going to start having you know then we'd have to look at it as whether the town should take it over but who should take it bring it up to some minimal standard and that's but that's again I think that's more in line that's a thrown up road it's not even an existing road anymore so that would fall into the new developments it's a trail right the trail is still the town right away still the town right away but it's no longer it's not the class 4 roads can be upgraded to a class 3 road according to the state standards by saying you won't be upgraded to class 3 where it's a lot different with the trail or under development I don't know I think you can upgrade a trail fairly easy because it didn't take as much to downgrade it well I don't know well I think the place you discuss it is in when someone comes in for a permit yes you know and to get it so so I just I am working on that and so well has that been given to the planning commission or development that's almost my next that's my next place to have you know I have talked to them but I haven't given there's another there's another road on West Hill that I gotta call on a couple weeks ago it's you know where Armand Bushard lived after he sold the farm that road that goes out through there that was a town road at one time a long time ago I guess is that the way that goes over to the Lone property well it used to go right over and come out on Coxbrook and they called and wanted to know why we're not maintaining the culvert in that road well it's been a long road since I've been here so good well class 4 fortunately is we don't have to worry about it too much because Fitzhugh's got all that land up here for sale yeah and I think that's what they're that's why they called to find out that that's the town's gonna maintain that culvert goes across that road but I don't know if they've downgraded it to a trail but I can remember when I was a kid my father and us would come from Coxbrook over through on the West Hill the one where where you used to live on Coxbrook whatever the name of that road is Mike Donnie lives up there now is that called Wheeler Road no it's my cousin in Aurora on that road too yeah well anyways yeah so I just thought I don't know because they might be somebody might be interested in buying some of that land from Fitzhugh up there or something and they want to know if the town's gonna maintain that culvert that goes across there we have a map that shows that V-Trans provides and we can look yeah see what's that the status is yeah so I've got a few I'd like to just kind of go over the items that I've had pending and COVID-19 hasn't helped them much so and this one Raul Hill Road I was always under the impression that both of the ends were Class 3 and the middle section from wells down to the bottom of the hill I guess was a Class 4 and we opened it up during the summer I heard from the state this year saying that they've been giving us credit for a Class 3 road right through well when I was here before we never maintained it yeah and then when I came back this time they told me that they only maintained it once a year and it's closed during the wintertime so there is a process to fix that the reclassification hey good night was it something I said there is a to re-fix that so that the records are right unless we make it a Class 3 and I'm sure there's some provision that we can close part of a Class 3 like we're doing co-hosts on trail so that's that the town center designation is going forward I must be on I'm going to roll I'm not going to clean out a room anyway in the town center designation you're aware that the consultant's been working on it and has been soliciting people to give input on the on her web page so that's going forward that is a grant to pay for her that's coming through the state and we do have $22,000 in our budget toward that Lovers Lane Bridge I have not done anything further since the beginning of COVID on Lovers Lane Bridge so if we're going to do something I mean obviously it takes money and so forth and I can get we just really really need a new deck on Lovers Lane Bridge it's not the stringers are fine so I thought maybe I would just go ahead and I've said I'd do this before but then everyone wasn't available to give me prices I will do that tax stabilization I think it was Justin had expressed an interest that maybe we should look into that to upgrade it and work with the Economic Development Committee to review I don't know that the policy really fits the need of the town I think that's what you said yeah okay so I will go forward and approach them sure the wall clerk's office that was the wall maybe that's where Tim left Tim packed into and we had an estimate from a contractor that we called in of 28,000 the insurance company sent their adjuster and their figure was 21,000 I mean 23,000 and with the deductible etc etc it was they were going to pay us 1,500 and the insurance company says you should put that out for a bit which I agree I haven't because it was no sense to it but should I go forward with that we got to take the building structure which had I mean it was it was inspected that the building is safe so I mean that's I'm not worried that the building's going to fall down because of that short piece of wall right so we had talked a little bit about maybe doing some things but I think for now I'll put out an RFP for the work Colby Cemetery the lot line adjustment Mr. Satan Satan Slayton Slayton had offered to give the town the land needed to straighten out the property line and so it would acquire more we had gotten an estimate for the survey which was quite a bit and we were going to put that out for bid and shall we continue with that again that's that's not a cemetery that people are dying to get in anymore I mean it's it's not well I'm crucial at this point is it I was just going to ask that same thing in the fact that the only crucial thing about it is and I don't know how to word this nicely but Mr. Slayton's an older gentleman and you know you don't know well the other on the other side of that is you stop and look at it and if you donate that land to the town it comes out to tactuals right I don't yeah I'm not saying it's a lot of I see what you're saying yeah so shall I just let that one slide for a while okay Richardson Road since it's my understanding that we're not doing any adjustment to the FY21 budget we should go forward on Richardson Road well I think that's important that we get that culvert fixed I agree we've got residents out there that depend on it look at what happened to Fisher Road and finally you did approve the paving on Fisher Road they haven't done it yet so we're I'm waiting with bated breath for them to do it a lot of people are starting to angst over it and well see the signs are out the the signs are out they're being closed that would be Payne Turnpike North they've put signs they are effective July 8th they're going to close the road during the day for the sewer project and Tom has done a pretty good job he will continue to do so so that everyone emergency services especially it will be closed from the school to Fisher Road now people that live down on Richardson or in on Payne Turnpike they can get in or not they won't but it just says they're going to do the paving SD is supposed to do the paving it was as soon as possible and they were going to do it immediately when you approve it today they told me that they were going to be immobilizing any minute now okay but I mean has anything been put out about closing Fisher Road no because I didn't know when they were going to do it which I told them I had to know so I can you know the SD must have the light board I'm sure they do I mean I like to put it on front porch forum and you know even just give me a chance to get it out there especially since the hospital and you know well I mean if SD can if SD paving can give you a heads up if you do this a day right we can we can make an effort to let people know and again they should be done in a day but we have to contend with traffic if they I mean they're going to put up detour signs and everything else anyway yes so I guess worrisome though is ambulance access well and again I mean last time that when the road failed we notified everyone and I called especially the Montpelier ambulance you know advise them that they'd have to go around or and and that was fine as long as I knew yeah that's all I had thank you okay take it with us is there anything else of okay well do you trust us I'm just curious when we put out an RMP for roadside mowing that's usually done um we're coming out soon middle of June so that should be I'll talk to Tim about that okay well nothing so um I've noticed here in Berliner we we tend to add a lot of agenda items at the beginning of the meeting some of them I think we probably know about on Friday I think it'd be a good idea to try to get them updated at least into the draft agenda on Friday and that way someone has particular thoughts or wants to join the meeting they'll see on the agenda over the weekend I agree and I'll do an I like the CV fiber thing for just well I tell you the CV fiber thing was interesting because if you remember um when that came they had only suggested that Brad sign it and I was thinking they wanted it back by Friday so I wasn't going to put it on the agenda I emailed select board members and asked them if they had a consensus to do it um I knew that you were in favor of it and I Flo had sent me an email on it I talked to Brad when you sent me the email on Friday I thought that you were saying to me I'd rather have it on the agenda so that's kind of maybe that's my fault John but that's what happened with that that was just an example and it wasn't that I was in favor of it it was that I wanted it on the agenda and it was just on the whether or not we wanted to sign it and the tree tapping I guess sometimes I hear from people and and maybe you know I'll try to do a better job and make sure I keep track of the time but there are times sometimes on Thursday I've already done the agenda and even though I haven't sent until Friday um so I'm not I can't remember when he called me but I wanted to ask you about it I think that people who have interests of course would like to know be able to know sure that's it I have nothing underneath the executive session I have no executive session I am waiting for signatures from you on the letter which is on your desk on the on the toward me Dan we have a meeting on and we do have a meeting on Wednesday at 5.30 and that's here yes motion to adjourn second all in favor make sure you sign the warrants before we leave thank you hi hi hi all in favor hi hi