This week on The Anxious Truth, we're talking about the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder because it kind of matters. We're also going to talk about the term anxiety disorder and how to properly use it, so let's get to it. Hello everybody, welcome back to The Anxious Truth. This is episode number 285 of the podcast. This is episode 5 in our Foundations of Panic series. Today we're going to talk about the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder because it really does kind of matter. I am Drew Linsalata, creator and host of The Anxious Truth. I am a therapist and training here in the state of New York in the U.S. of A, specializing in anxiety and anxiety disorders. I am an author, a podcaster and an educator in this community and a former sufferer because I've lived with panic disorder for many years of my life, off and on. I will talk about that today. Before we get started in this episode, just a quick reminder that The Anxious Truth is more than just this particular podcast episode or this YouTube video. If you go to my website at TheAnxiousTruth.com, you're going to find books and workshops and courses and all the free social media content, 284 other free podcast episodes and YouTube videos that came before this one. So take a minute, check it out, go to TheAnxiousTruth.com. Everything is there, much of it, most of it is free and even the things that carry a price tag, I think are relatively low priced. So I hope you find that all helpful and let's get into today's episode. What is the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder? Well, it's actually relatively simple, but a lot of times people that are dealing with panic attacks or that have panic attacks will say that they have panic disorder.  That's actually not true. Now this is mind blowing for me because as a former sufferer, I cannot imagine how somebody could have panic attacks repeatedly and not develop panic disorder because I developed it. But now that as a recovered person, I can see, oh, yes, I do understand the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder. And of course, as a therapist in training, having learned all these things, there are in fact technical clinical differences that probably matter because when you can conceptualize your struggle, maybe a bit more accurately and have more information, it can only be helpful. So think of it this way, a panic attack is a discrete event. A panic attack starts, it peaks, it ends. We can talk endlessly about how long it takes for that panic attack to run its course. I know many people will say, if I am awake, I am panicking, which is technically not really true and pretty much impossible.  But let's not get ahead of ourselves. We'll get to that. A panic attack, each panic attack you have, does have a start, a peak, a middle and an end. They all end eventually. They really do. And again, we will get to that down the road, you know, the argument that though no, I continuously panic. But a panic attack is an event. It starts and it ends. Panic disorder is what happens when you begin to be excessively worried about the panic attack itself. So for instance, many, many people in the Western world, many adults in the Western world in a given year will experience a panic attack. The prevalence of panic attacks in the West in adult populations is huge. Panic attacks are actually a very common experience. Most adults will have at least one or two in the course of their lifetime. So human beings have panic attacks. It's not a cool thing. Probably a flaw in some way shape or form, but we have them. A panic attack is a human experience that many, many, many people will have at least once or twice over the course of their lifetimes. Other adults have panic attacks on a reasonably regular basis, but they don't develop panic disorder because for them, a panic attack is disruptive. It's inconvenient. It's certainly scary. It certainly leaves them feeling shaken up and, you know, their day is sort of disrupted for sure. But when the panic attack ends, these folks have the ability to sort of move on with their day and continue. They'd be in that shaky state, maybe in that tired state.  Maybe they can recognize that they're feeling very stressed or that they're a bit sleep deprived or that they're under the gun or that there's a lot going on in their lives and it boiled over into a panic attack. And they don't see it as something that necessarily happened to them out of the blue or that was dangerous or that was out of control or that represented any more than this was a very extreme emotional reaction I had given the context of my life at the moment. So they can have a panic attack and simply move on from it. I shouldn't say simply because that minimizes the experience, but they generally will move on from it and they're not really thinking about that panic attack the day after it happened. It's over. It was really inconvenient. They didn't like it. They don't want it to happen again, but they're not fixated on that panic attack. So many, many people in the Western world will have that experience once, twice, multiple times in their lives and they will will not develop panic disorder. Panic disorder is what happens when you have that first panic attack or maybe those first few panic attacks. I will tell you from my own personal experience, really only took three or four panic attacks for me to quickly develop what would have been correctly diagnosed as panic disorder. Usually after that first panic attack or those first few panic attacks, you begin to be so worried about having another one because the state of panic itself felt dangerous. It felt like it was going to harm you. It was interpreted as a catastrophe, a disaster, something horrible that should never happen again. You develop an intense fear of the state of panic itself, regardless of what it was that triggered those first couple of panic attacks. And then you begin to fixate continually and incessantly on those panic attacks and you begin to scan and check and wonder when the next one is going to happen. And then you begin to develop an avoidant lifestyle because you are trying to prevent another panic attack from happening. This tends to backfire. We talked about in the last episode, episode 284 of the podcast, episode four of the foundations of panic series. We talked about why avoiding panic triggers tends to backfire in the long run. But panic disorder is really defined as the fear of panic attacks and the next panic attack, a pervasive and excessive fixation on panic attacks, scanning for them, worrying about them and planning for the next one in an avoidant way. So that's the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder. It kind of matters because as it turns out, just having panic attacks doesn't mean that you have panic disorder. So when somebody just automatically assumes that, oh, I have panic attacks. So that means I have panic disorder. That isn't necessarily true. The disorder is really defined by the impact on one's lifestyle. And that will vary from person to person because everybody's lifestyle is just a little bit different, right? So it's the avoidance. It's the fear of panic attacks. It's the worry about the next panic attack, which brings me to something that we should probably discuss because people who develop panic disorder will tend to be anxious all the time. Even though they might not be in full blown panic, that space between panic attacks is certainly not calm. So people who have, say, generalized anxiety disorder, a state where you might feel an elevated sense of anxiety or just that simmer anxiety all day long will sometimes say, jeez, I wish I had panic attacks because those at least happen and then they're over. But for somebody with panic disorder, it's not necessarily always over. Somebody who develops a severe or a really marked case of panic disorder will often have panic attacks on a regular basis and spends the time in between those panic attacks, really anxious because they're worried about when the next one's going to happen. And you can get caught in loops where you're constantly scanning and checking for signs of panic. What is my body doing now? What am I thinking? Am I afraid? Is my heart rate starting to get elevated? Do I have the dreaded depersonalization or derealization? Do I feel dizzy? Is my stomach starting to rumble or do I feel a little bit nauseous? People with panic disorder will spend all day long in an anxious state because they are in fact worried about the next panic attack, always looking for it and always trying to manage their state and prevent that next panic attack from happening. And sometimes people with panic disorder will then say, well, I must have GAD or generalized anxiety disorder because I'm anxious all the time. But that isn't necessarily true. If you're anxious all the time because you're anxious all the time. If you're anxious all the time because you're constantly checking yourself to see how you're doing to make sure that your anxiety levels aren't rising and elevating toward the level of panic attack, then that wouldn't necessarily indicate that you have generalized anxiety disorder. So you just have panic disorder, if that is in fact what you have been diagnosed with by a qualified in-person clinician, a therapist or a counselor, which by the way, no one on the internet can tell you if you have panic disorder or not. I consider myself pretty well educated on the topic. It's something that I actually do professionally, but I could not diagnose you with panic disorder on the internet. So don't let anybody give you a diagnosis unless they actually know you. That's really important. But people with panic disorder will often get down on themselves because they'll feel like, well, I had panic attacks. Then I have panic disorder because what this guy is saying sounds a lot like me. So maybe I do have panic disorder, but I think I also have GAD because I'm anxious all the time. Not necessarily. It depends on why you're anxious all the time. People with panic disorder will feel an elevated state of anxiety almost all the time just because they're always on the lookout for that next panic attack. And if you're interested in more about panic attacks, one place you can certainly check out would be the Disorder Podcast that I do with my friend, Josh Fletcher. That's at Disorder.fm and we did an episode called panic dot dot dot attack, where we sort of challenged the notion that a panic attack is in fact an attack. So if you want to check out Disorder and listen to that, you can go over to Disorder.fm. Another way to learn more about panic attacks would be to check out my Panic Attacks Explained Workshop, which you will also find on my website at the anxioustru.com. If you want more of a deep dive on mechanics and the mechanics of panic attacks and what they're all about and how they work and what the prevalence is in society and how we should really approach those, then that workshop might be useful to you. So let's talk about the whole diagnosis thing, because again, that can get a little bit sticky because then people will start to feel like they have multiple problems. I have panic disorder and now I think I have GAD because I'm always anxious, which isn't necessarily true. We talked about that, but people will start to get down on that because they feel like the diagnosis of two anxiety disorders and see how we're sort of leading into today's subtopic, which is the term anxiety disorder, that two anxiety disorders are certainly worse than one. But that isn't really necessarily true too. So while we're talking about panic disorder today, I want to at least acknowledge that the term anxiety disorder is a is a categorical term. So in diagnostic circles, we use the term anxiety disorder to describe a group of particular mental health issues that all share similar ideology and development and symptoms and they're related, right? So we use the term anxiety disorder, not as a diagnosis. So nobody watching this has anxiety disorder. People watching this may have an anxiety disorder or maybe multiple diagnosis, but diagnosable anxiety disorders, but it's not necessarily correct. It's just semantics. It doesn't matter. But again, the more information you have, the better equipped you can be to advocate for yourself. It wouldn't necessarily be clinically proper to say, I have anxiety disorder. You know, we talk all the time on disorder, the other podcasts and on this on this podcast about a disordered state of anxiety. That is true. But there is no clinical diagnosis called anxiety disorder. I have anxiety disorder. You may have an anxiety disorder, one of which may be panic disorder or phobia is in their social anxiety disorder is in there. There's a bunch of them in the category. OCD is actually not officially in the anxiety disorder category anymore. It has its own categories. But the point here when we talked about the term anxiety disorder is that they're also closely related. Yet there's actually a huge amount of overlap between them. Anybody with one anxiety disorder probably has a reasonably high probability of at least at some point being able to be diagnosed with a second or even third anxiety disorder. But don't get too down on yourself there because that doesn't necessarily mean anything. They're so closely related that the presentations begin to overlap. That's why I specifically talked about the relationship between panic disorder and GAD because people will just think, well, I'm anxious all the time. So that means I have GAD, but that isn't clinically correct. And it doesn't matter anyway, because if you develop panic disorder, there's a chance that you may begin to exhibit signs and symptoms of things like OCD or social anxiety disorder. You may develop agoraphobia from there. It doesn't mean that you have these multiple problems like, oh, I have a broken leg and now I have a broken arm and now I have a concussion. That isn't the way this works. If you have what anxiety disorder, like panic disorder, for instance, there's a good chance that you will exhibit the symptomology of other anxiety disorders too. But that's because they are in a category called anxiety disorders. It's not a diagnosis called anxiety disorder. Again, it's just semantics. Is that going to change anybody's life? No, but it can be helpful because, again, the more well informed you are, I think the better off you are in terms of seeking treatment and advocating for yourself and making decisions. So I just sort of wanted to pass that along. So if you are having recurring panic attacks, do you have panic disorder? Well, again, on the internet, I can't possibly tell you that because they don't really know you. But the things to look for would be beginning to be obsessed or always fixated on the next panic attack, continually analyzing, thinking about and replaying the last panic attack, continually checking how your body is doing, how you're feeling. Am I anxious more? Am I afraid? Are my seeing any of those dreaded symptoms that start to indicate that my anxiety level is rising? I must stop that because I cannot possibly have allow another panic attack to ever happen again. Am I beginning to avoid things in my life because I think that those are panic triggers? And again, if you go back to episode 284 of this podcast, talked about that triggers and avoiding triggers and why that's a bad idea. If you are very fixated on the state of panic itself, trying to frantically find ways to manage it and micromanage your body and your mind and biological processes that you may have no control over, because you just want desperately to never panic again, because you are terrified of having that experience, then you may in fact meet the clinical requirements or you may meet those clinical criteria for being diagnosed with panic disorder. But know that you can in fact have multiple panic attacks and not develop panic disorder that is possible. And I will wrap this one up by telling you about what the experience of a recovered person is, because I 100% absolutely had panic disorder throughout the 25-year period in my life for sure. There were three or four periods that were much worse than others, but I would have met that clinical definition for a very long time in my life. Now it is possible for me to have a panic attack now and then. It's been about a year since I had one. There's a lot going on in my life right now. There was a death in my family a couple of weeks ago. I did experience what I think may have been a panic attack about two weeks ago, but it's contextual. And guess what? When it was over, it doesn't matter to me. I didn't think about it an hour later. I was often about with my day and I understand the context that it's in. It wasn't a mystery and it didn't present a threat or a challenge to me in any way. It was disruptive. It's certainly scary when it happens. I don't want them to happen, but it's also possible for somebody who does have a diagnosis of panic disorder or any anxiety disorder or related condition to get to the point where they still may develop periods of elevated anxiety and panic, but do not qualify for the diagnosis anymore. Why? Because as I said earlier, it doesn't impact your lifestyle anymore. Panic attacks literally have zero impact on my life as a recovered person at this point. And I'll speak for other recovered person people because that would be the way we would define that recovered state.  And no longer had restrictions in your life because of that panic or you didn't spend any amount of time considering it or having it weigh in as an option in the decisions you make as a factor in the decisions you make in your life. Then you would no longer qualify to be diagnosed as with panic disorder and we'd probably be done and when you wouldn't need therapy anymore for that particular problem. So not only is it possible for people to have panic attacks and never develop panic disorder, but it is possible to have panic disorder and then overcome that and achieve a fully recovered state where it is possible that you might panic once in a while, but not have panic disorder because those panic attacks no longer create restrictions or avoidances in your life. And it's simply a non issue or non factor. Why? Because now you see the panic attack as a discrete event. It's tie it back to the beginning of this little talk where it has a beginning, it peaks, it has an end and it's over. And one panic attack is just simply not connected to the next for me as a recovered person for other recovered people and for people in the world who do have recurring panic attacks but never develop the disorder. So as you can see, it's not as simple as saying that panic attacks equal panic disorder. There is no such thing as being diagnosed as anxiety disorder. You may have an anxiety disorder. You may have multiple anxiety disorders. That sort of doesn't matter because they all start to blend together anyway. So don't look at anxiety disorder diagnoses as additive. Now I have multiple different problems to solve. That's not necessarily true. They're all related. That's why we grouped them together in a diagnostic classification or category. And even if you do get diagnosed with panic disorder or another anxiety disorder or disorders, it is in fact possible to recover from those things and get back to the point where panic attack has a beginning, middle, and they don't get connected and they don't impact your life anymore. So what do we got here? That's about 17 or 18 minutes on the difference between panic attacks and panic disorder. The proper way to use the term anxiety disorder. This probably won't change anybody's life significantly, but I think all the as much good information as you can have. That's correct. That's actionable that you can rely on. That isn't based on just what people sort of think. This is the way we actually use these terms in the clinical world. I think can be helpful as you work on your recovery and as you begin to conceptualize this, especially if you're new to this. If you're not sure what's going on, definitely go back and watch episode one through four of the foundations of panic series here on this podcast of this YouTube channel. And yeah, that's that's pretty much the end of this one. You know, it's over because you can hear the music. That's the way I end all these podcast episodes. And I will also end with the usual little closing, which is if you're watching this as a YouTube video, and you kind of dig it, then hit the subscribe button and the notification bell so you know when I upload new content. I definitely like the video. If you like it, I mean, if you don't like it, I like it. That's okay. I understand you're entitled to your opinion. If you have a question or a comment by all means, leave it below and I will be happy to interact with you as soon as I possibly can. I can't get to the comments always right away, but I do go back and read all the comments and I try to respond to as many as I possibly can. If you're listening as a podcast episode, especially an Apple podcast or Spotify, then if you dig the podcast, leave a five star rating or even take a second and maybe write a little review because it helps other people find the podcast and other people can help if they want. If you are looking for more information, again, check my website at the anxioustruth.com for all of the goodies that I have on offer there, free or otherwise. And also check out the disordered podcast that I do with Josh Fletcher. That's a really good podcast. That's at disordered.fm. And as always, I'll remind you that no matter how hard you may be struggling today and how difficult it may seem and how it may seem like you're never going to get better, any little tiny step that you can take in the direction of recovery and away from your fear. I don't mean avoiding or stopping your fear, but facing that fear and learning a little bit more today how to move through it a little bit more productively than you did yesterday. That step counts. They all add up over time. Suddenly you see that things are different. You cannot have imagined that they could have been different for you. I believe that you can do it. And I just want to leave you with that little bit of encouragement. So thanks for hanging out. We'll see you again in the next episode. Take care.


Item number SCP-674 Object Class Safe Special Containment Procedures When not being tested, SCP-674 is to remain in a locked plastic case in Stored Site-23. SCP-674's cord is not required for its operation and is to remain coiled and tied. SCP-674 poses no existential threat to anyone other than its user. However, it has already demonstrated itself to be a potential security risk for the Foundation. Therefore, in the event that security around SCP-674 is compromised, on-site personnel are authorized to destroy it at their discretion. Testing is ongoing to determine the risks and possibilities. In using SCP-674 as an information-gathering device. Description SCP-674 is a Zapper light-gun peripheral for the Nintendo Entertainment System, consistent with other models that were bundled with the NES in North America after 1985. SCP-674 displays typical wear and tear, and some indication that previous owners tried to pry the casing open unsuccessfully. The device is not indestructible and has responded to stress tests as expected. Disassembling and reassembling the device has revealed no anomalous parts or internal tampering. Cleaning and maintenance of its parts appear to have improved its accuracy, but has not removed a blind spot that begins on the extreme right side of any screen it is aimed at. When SCP-674 is aimed and fired at any video screen, the user perceives that he or she has fired a shot into the displayed scene. Any physical object within the scene, whether live or previously recorded, will react appropriately in the context.  It must be noted that this will not correspond with reality outside of the video, and beyond the user of SCP-674 will perceive the change. Results will vary depending on the context of the video. Fictional characters in a television show will react consistently within the established parameters of their setting, while firing into news reports or documentaries will produce a realistic reaction. Therefore, shooting at an actor in an interview will produce a different result than shooting at the same actor, who is currently portraying an invincible cyborg in a science fiction movie. Animated cartoons can also be affected, although cartoon logic produces wildly unpredictable results, ranging from causing a character to momentarily be obscured by a puff of smoke and be covered with soot afterward to data-expunged. The most notable result of use of SCP-674 is that it is permanent and can lead to very unusual experiences for the viewer. If a subject uses the device to shoot a character in a television series, they will forever perceive that they have changed the continuity of the series. A character will remain wounded or dead, and other characters will respond in context. This will continue even if SCP-674 is only used once, and the viewer is never exposed to it again. At a certain threshold, fictional characters will begin to make broadly expositional statements to each other, or through the fourth wall regarding the actions of the viewer, potentially divulging sensitive information. See Addendum for Details Addendum SCP-674 was recovered from the home of MS, a reclusive 33-year-old Caucasian male. Mr. S came to the attention of the SCP Foundation through posts on his fringe political blog, in which he had claimed to have assassinated then-president and then-vice-president along with half of Congress, four members of the Supreme Court, and a wide range of news anchors, talk show hosts, and political commentators. Questioning of the subject revealed that he never left the house, and honestly believed the news reports he was watching and using SCP-674 upon were real. Mr. S claimed that he was using SCP-674 to stave off a military police state. However, using the device to assassinate so many high-profile figures had the opposite effect on the video reality he was experiencing. His final blog posts described an increasingly unstable global order, martial law, and detailed descriptions of catastrophes consistent with the hypothetical release of SCP- and SCP-among others. Mr. S claimed prior knowledge of the Foundation and was laying in wait for agents, attempting to ambush them by firing SCP-674 into monitors attached to his home security system upon their approach. This, of course, had absolutely no effect on the agents, who immediately took him into custody and seized SCP-674. Under questioning, Mr. S said he had discovered the properties of SCP-674 when he idly aimed and fired it at an episode of the cartoon, when one of the main characters was wearing a graduate's cap and singing about geography. He claims that after the character recovered, it wagged a finger at him, and specifically warned that the SCP Foundation was going to get him if he continued to fire the device before returning to its song. Mr. S perished while held in confinement. Security tapes show he had been alone and engaged in a heated one-sided argument with the security camera in his cell before being struck down by 3.38-caliber handgun bullets. Testing Log, SCP-674-1 Note, this text log was retrieved from the hard drive of Dr. P***** partially melted laptop in his private quarters. Dr. P***** checked SCP-674 out for testing, and it was also recovered from his quarters. Dr. P*****'s whereabouts are unknown. Data Corrupted Extending to approximately 13% of the length of the screen itself. Widescreen televisions therefore have a larger blind spot than smaller screens. Data Corrupted Yelling at me from the corner of the screen where I could not shoot her. Data Corrupted Erk would not go down no matter how many shots were fired. They always hit his shoulder when of the nearby red shirt. Data Corrupted Gotti is pressed against wall to his left, safe and blind spot. Data Corrupted Bach claims he has reversed the polarity on a phase. Data Corrupted Lesson complete. If you missed the previous orientation, go watch SCP-673, Tissues, right now. Or for the complete course, watch this playlist.


Well hello, I am at the townhouse, the favorite mother is here, but she hasn't been here all day, she was here for a little bit of the day, but she got to go home, imagine that! Things are different, the flooring is kind of happening, the flooring company came in and they mudded so like all that dark stuff you see is still wet, so they are gonna have that set up overnight and then they're gonna come back and then start actually laying down some flooring tomorrow which will be awesome and they're hoping to be done by the end of the week and they obviously have to put on all the floorboards and stuff too which the head guy said it's just that's kind of a tedious process but it should go pretty fast because I've got some pretty long runs so it shouldn't be too horrible, there's not a ton of turns, I mean there's turns but there's not a ton of turns, but my uncle is going to be coming at some point today because we need to remove that toilet and then my brother should be coming here at some point as well because we got to film a video, that's balloon day 27 so far, yeah I will uh show you around the floor so this section is where the carpet used to be and then there was kind of like this little like kitty wampus thing, but yeah there's a lot of leveling, I'm on a cement pad, I don't have a basement so but um but yeah they did a whole bunch of leveling so that actually works out pretty slick and then um they did some leveling over here too but this is totally level over here except for like the door jams those kind of like dipped in a little bit so those have some mud on them as well but everything over here is pretty good so that's nice, I also got a delivery from bedbath and beyond today which is the comforter for the guest room which it's just a comforter it's not like you know a pattern or anything it's gonna go in the duvet cover that I'm actually gonna show in today's video like my normal sit-down video it's a target home hall so after that video is up this video right here will go up so you guys will be able to kind of see that but um next step for the guest room is actually getting a box spring mattress and the little like rails in a full so I just need to go to like the furniture store or whatever and get that but really that completes the room right now um but of course I have moving to do so I'm gonna do that first before I actually like mess with completing that room so yeah that's that's what's going on I don't really have anything interesting to talk about right now because I'm not doing oh I was supposed to be doing whoop right here that little landing you see but because the floor is still wet I can't do it because I need to get my ladder in here and the lavert ladder will create divots because not totally dry yet so I think tomorrow I'm actually gonna do all the painting I do have my painting clothes here but um it's just this small little spot but I don't want to screw up the floor for these guys and have them you know come back another day and then it's like this whole long issue so whoop there comes mom with a big white stick matches your pants you know be like a javelin thrower is that big no are you putting that up no oh okay all right well I guess I'm just gonna hang out here and um I'll check in with you guys in a little bit so my uncle just removed the toilet from this room the toilet is out in the garage but he's like resealing it so the smell doesn't get bad in the next few days but I'll show you you guys in a second this is kind of like a one-person bathroom situation in here it's quite small but my friend knows how to do it all right I say take the hinges or pop the can be easier to put in and out of here with the door okay well when we when we reinstall it let's we can do that well for them doing the flooring they're they're probably gonna remove that I don't like it it was off well they already removed a bunch of doors so okay yeah I'm just suggesting well they can they can do that all right so let's let's take a look at the inside here all right it's sealed up really tight all right so my friend didn't spill a drop a very thing so there's no toilet in here anymore and um I got a piece of tile that was like a dollar at the hardware store so um we kept the wax seal on there for right this moment because we don't want like not septic but you know like the coming up so anyways um but yeah this is what it looks like in here for right now um there is no event great on there either so it's a work in progress you guys it's a work in progress and let's be here let me go upstairs real quick mom was playing with my new shop vac I was playing with it and then my uncle came over and she's like hey my rent's here I'll play with that so there's my little tiny shop vac I do need an extension cord though because the extension on that cord is real real short but I got the smallest one I possibly could because you know I'm on a budget you guys but I'll go get an extension cord at some point um when I'm in my hardware store adventures but I think that is all I have to report at the moment I'm gonna see my brother in a couple of hours we're gonna film that video and then yeah that's what's gonna happen so I'm videoing you doing this I put my little remnants in there too so you see that in case mom gets abducted later we know where she was all right so we're at people's cafe and I got myself a ham and cheese sandwich oh I've got a rogue piece here anyway got a pickle because I asked for one and then coleslaw my mom doesn't like coleslaw I actually don't mind it and then my mom got a california burger because you know went in california just kidding we're in minnesota so I'm back at my parents place uh just went out to dinner with the favorite mother haven't heard from my brother yet so I don't know what the heck is going on with him he said over two hours ago that he would be home in two hours but he would call me and now the phone's going off so we're supposed to film a video tonight that I need to get edited and uploaded like ASAP I don't know if that's gonna happen it's already seven o'clock so I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna end up the vlog here anyways because I won't end up like actually showing what we film about because obviously it's gonna be a surprise when it comes out but let me show you the Doyle dog because Doyle challenges you know what I mean the Doyle's back oh hello what have you been doing all day what have you been doing all day long yeah you've been doing nothing just been sitting sitting and being a fluffy monster Doyle and I are gonna hang out here I'm gonna wait for my brother he's on the phone with my dad right now so we'll see if we get to film that video tonight so anyway I'm gonna jet thanks so much for watching and I will see you guys in the next say bye Doyle okay all right good night well I'll see you when you get home


Hey guys, what's going on? It's Andy Elliott. In this video I'm going to be teaching you a common objection that a lot of sales pros are getting the interest rates too high. Watch this video, I'll show you how to overcome it every single time. Check it out. All right guys, so in this video I'm going to talk to you about the interest rate objections. Now right now if you're in any sales industry, I don't care, like let's say real estate right now. The interest rates are up, the feds have raised the rates, so what is going on?  Listen, that's just, that's a smoke fog, that's a stall, that's nothing. I'm going to show you how to overcome it. That's a smoke screen. It doesn't exist, that's fake, and there's always going to be an objection that people are going to want to lean into. If you're in the automotive space, I bet we could go back together eight months ago, okay? It'll always change in times, there'll always be different objections, but about eight months ago from the time I'm making this video, customers, consumers had to pay addendums. They had to pay market adjustments. They had to pay in some cases 10,000 up to 50,000 or 100,000 even more for a car than what it was worth because of supply and demand and market, right? So what happens is the interest rates were super low, it was almost like free money, but they had to pay all the dough for the car. Right now it's quite the opposite. It's the best time for a consumer to make a deal, inventory's coming back in, but the interest rates are up. So a lot of people are getting, yeah, I think I'm going to hold off right now. The interest rates are too high and salespeople are like, eh, I don't know what to do. Mr. Manager, can you come help me? Forget all that. I'm going to show you how to handle it, okay? So are you ready? So here's the objection. By the way, grab a pen, grab a piece of paper, get ready to take notes and learn. This is how this is going to go down. So you're bringing in a pencil to the customer. You're obviously going over all the numbers. You're ready to sign them up and they see the interest rate and they say, oh, I'm not paying that rate. The interest rates are too high. I'm just going to wait somewhere along the line that the interest rates too high. That's the objection. Hey guys, what's going on? It's Andy. A lot of you leave comments telling me that you need help. Do me a favor. I'm going to tell you the best way to get a hold of me. Shoot me a text message right now,<PHONE_NUMBER>.<PHONE_NUMBER>. I'll help you with whatever you need.  Let's get back to the video. You're going to say, hey, number one, I totally understand. However, six to eight months ago, if you were to purchase a vehicle at a dealership, you'd spend anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 more. Why? Because you could land a 747 airplane on most car dealership slots because they didn't have any cars. It wasn't a great time for consumers to make a great deal on a car, but the interest rates were super low. Can I ask you a question? On the financing part, right, you date the rate but you marry the payoff. Let me explain what I mean. If the payoff, if you had bought a car six months ago and you had paid an additional $10,000 because of supply and demand, if that's your payoff and that's what you owe, can you refinance that? No. The payoff is the payoff. You have to pay it down as time goes. But today, if you get a great deal on a car, which you are getting a great deal on a car right now, Mr. or Mrs. Customer, it is the best consumer deal on the market. Even though you're paying a little higher on a rate, you date the rate and not marry it. When they get a better rate on the market and the feds come back down on the rates, you're just going to refinance it. You've got a great payoff on your car. You've got a great price on your car. You're getting a great deal as a consumer. Imagine if you had to buy 10 months ago. Would you have paid $10,000 more? Probably not. But guess what? Everybody did because the rates were low. It was like free money. But now you actually get a good deal, which means your payoff is going to be less. But guess what? Even though the interest rate is a little more, you only date the rate. You see that rate that's on your contract? You're going to pay that rate until the interest rates come down and then you're going to refinance it. It's that simple. Any bank in the world would love to give that customer a great rate as rates come back down and they go up and down all the time. So right now they can have the ability to have a great deal on their car, which is they came in for. And then because the feds have raised the rates, guess what? They're just going to date the rate for a while until they go back down. And guess what? They got a great deal on a car. They can refinance the rate whenever they go down. Abracadabra, everybody wins. It's the best time in the world to make a deal. That's it. And that's what I love about interest rates. Interest rates go up and down all the time. Also, inventory does. So what I would also do is put a little scarcity back into them too and say, hey, right now I'm going to tell you, with supply and demand, since interest rates are up, but the prices are great on a car, man, buy the car, date the rate, when the rates go down, refinance it. Because a little birdie told me in the next, you know, three, four months, vehicle prices are going to go back up again. Inflation's always going to go back up. And then guess what?  Securing your best deal. Write that down. Securing your best deal, Mr. and Mrs. Customer, is signing on the dotted line right now. Let's do this. By the way, I'll be happy to tell you about some good financing companies around town that offer great rates as things change. Like credit unions. You can point them in a direction of any credit union that'll be happy to refinance loans for anybody at any point in time whenever somebody sees a better rate on the market, okay? So your goal right now, as an interest rate objection, is to not get caught up in the stall. Don't get caught up in what they're saying. There's always going to be a high price. There's always going to be a higher interest rate. There's going to be times when they're not going to get enough for their trade-in, right? What's the objection today? The objection today, at this point in time when I'm making this video, is the interest rates too high. So write down some key notes. Number one, date the rate. Okay, really easy. Date the rate. Super simple. Hey, Mr. and Mrs. Customer, obviously there is a rate on your contract that is the rate for the full term of the loan. It's that simple. But as interest rates go down, interest rates can be refinanced. So you're physically going to date the rate. It's that simple. Secondly, this is super important. The price on the vehicle, the one that you're buying right now, consumers want a great deal. You're getting a great deal. So you're getting everything you want. Six months ago, you'd have paid an additional 10 to 15 grand for the same car. Okay? Remember this.  Okay? But you can refinance what? The rate. Okay? So payoffs are forever. Interest rates are temporary, right? Especially if you got good credit like you guys do. Everybody in the world would be fighting to give you the best rate on the market, especially as things change, which could be any day, any time, any month. So with that being said, what are we going to do? Number one, I want you to write this down. We're going to speak, okay? With confidence. We're going to speak with what? Certainty. And lastly, we are going to take control, the three C's that will change your life. Certainty, control, and confidence. And if you can say the word tracks that I've just taught you, and you can have the posture of a closer and you can believe in yourself, let your words flow like water. Practice saying this a thousand times. Believe it because it's the truth. You know what? These three C's match with this objection handling technique. Well, you'd be the best in the world. So I love you guys. By the way, if you're not training with me, and I don't mean on YouTube, right? I mean on the big daddy stuff, my best stuff. If you're not training with me on my elite training cells or your academy, which is called Project 500, which is how to make a half a million a year selling. If you're not with me on it, I would highly recommend right now you stop whatever you're doing and you shoot me a text message, and I'll send you some information on it. I'm going to give you my personal cell phone number. It's<PHONE_NUMBER>.<PHONE_NUMBER>. Shoot me a text, say, Andy, my name's Josh. Give me some information on Project 500 and how to make a half a million a year selling. I'd love to share that with you. Lastly, if you love the video, like, comment, subscribe, share it with the buddy that could help you some training to kind of get their day going, help get their months started, right? Pull them out of a slump or take them to another level. I love you guys.  Shoot me a text. I'll see you guys soon. Hey guys, I just want to tell you the true one percenters you made it till the end of the video. Do me a favor, share it with the friend that wants to go to another level. Make sure you like the video, comment below so I know who you are. Set your notifications and then subscribe to the channel. We got daily cells training videos dropping. I'll see you soon.


From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Accelerate 19, brought to you by Fortinet. Hey, welcome back to theCUBE live from Fortinet Accelerate 2019. I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burris. You can hear all of the folks behind us on the show floor. There's about 4,000 people here in Orlando from 40 different countries. We're pleased to welcome to theCUBE for the first time. Warren Small, the Senior Vice President of Transformation and Security at Dimension Data. Warren, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on theCUBE. Thank you for having me guys, it's a great pleasure. Lots of energy behind us. Let's go ahead and start out so our viewers get a view of Dimension Data, who you guys are, what you do, where you're headquartered. Yeah, absolutely. So first and foremost, thank you again for having me. Dimension Data, we're part of NTT, headquartered out of London. Today we are a global organization with presence in every major country. As an organization, we have $8 billion in revenue and employ about 30,000 people. I'm from group security. I'm responsible for transforming our business to be more solutions and outcome focused to help our clients with their digital aspirations. You're a channel partner in the operational technology space with Fortinet. Tell us a little bit about the history of your partnership. Yeah, fantastic. So that's a new focus area for us, absolutely. But Dimension Data has been a longtime partner with Fortinet across the entire security portfolio. We've made a significant investment today and being very intentional around partnering with Fortinet for operational technology, because we believe their fabric approach has a good ecosystem as articulated by Ken and by Patrice this morning around the partners that they've sought to help clients address this operational technology risk. So one of the things, I think it was Ken talked about this morning, is this notion of how the edge is going to be distinguished by different levels of trust. A little bit of background. So at Wikibon, we talk about how digital transformation is the process by which a business institutionalizes and operationalizes the role that data as an asset plays in its business. So we talk about data zones. Having a zone of data, proximate to whatever event is going to take place. Ken talked about almost a zone of trust, proximate to where an event's going to take place in OT. You're talking to an enormous number of customers about outcomes and then trying to match technology to those outcomes. How does that notion of trust being one of the primary determinants and design elements for thinking about OT? Yeah, so I think an incredible question. Thank you so much. So I think there are two ways to answer the question. So we have a philosophy around being secure by design and by nature being secure by design, there is inherent trust because we understand the client's business outcome. Today, we faced with an incredible amount of innovation. I think we all want innovation. Everything that we do, one of the things I keep talking to my family about is how easy my job has become through innovation. Whether that's booking an airline ticket and downloading a ticket. But now we talk about the credibility of that airline. We talk about the credibility of the airline industry. We talk about the credibility of the transportation industry. It's not just the ticket. So when we're talking about the service and we talk about the integrity of the airline, it's all those pieces that are integrated. Nobody talks to you today about an OT outage when your bags are delayed. Nobody's talking to you today about an airline delay because there's been some water leak and an IoT sensor has detected the water leak and now they're trying to get emergency services to come and investigate the problem. So I think that's the challenge that you're faced with and inherent in the secure by design being a philosophy with all business stakeholders. Business now have an appreciation that security is no longer that fear factor. It's now an enabler of the business outcome that we want to deliver to our clients who are crying out for services. I might say it's even part of the brand, right? Absolutely. So you go back to systems theory and you talk about a competent interface and a competent interface is performance, it's trustworthy, it behaves as design, it's monitorable, it's audible, all those other things. And in many respects as we move to a digital business, the fundamental tenet of competency is tied into how well the network retains a security profile so that the business can take on new options but serve customers the way it's expected to. Absolutely. So one of the things that I like telling my colleagues is when we see some of our clients that are either in the oil and gas industry or critical infrastructure, when you go to a plant, they always talk about fatalities. They always talk about how many incidents they have. It's that real. In cybersecurity today, in this digital attacks, you don't see it, but once you automate a system or you automate part of a plant, there could be some fatalities. I read an article recently about how you can manipulate data that says to a patient that they aren't really sick. Now I'm a bit torn because if I go to a doctor, I want to be told there's something wrong with me. Maybe I don't want to know, but in reality, I do want to know so I can take action. And that's the challenge that we face with today is that there's this uncertainty of manipulation. This uncertainty today is because as we connect these two worlds to create better efficiencies or to provide that better service to the patient, all of a sudden, is you creating more risks. You know, there are many stories I can share with you that are told to me or either our clients share with us of real life problems if an IoT device is not protected. And at most times, there's a device that's connected that nobody knows about. So how do you leave that conversation about security away from fear and more to this is how we can help you stop being reactive and actually be proactive? So today, we as a team, we talk about innovation. Today, we talk about what if. We talk about the value of the way I do my job today. I'm collaborating, the other day I did a count of just a number of apps that I use to make a phone call to have a meeting with somebody. I probably have about seven and you could count the same whether it's vendor X or OEM Y. But I haven't had an innate level of trust that that vendor, that OEM that's provided that application to me is trustworthy. So I download it and I get on my meeting. It's very much the same with the way that I communicate and collaborate with my peers whether it's internally or externally. I no longer live with the fear that someone may steal my data because I know that there's a process in place and that we put a mechanism in place to make sure that critical data cannot be shared. Much the same with other aspects of technology. If we have the conversation of the value that can be derived if there is integrity. You know, I look around me and it was interesting I got into the elevator here and pretty old elevator, right? But there's a level of trust that it was certified and that it is certified and it's validated and that it works, right? So that's the only trust that I have because for those that know me I'm pretty scared of elevators. Clostrophobic, right? Well, so but I want to try to using you as a proxy for a lot of users because dimension data is deep into a number of global 500 companies and global 2000 companies. Do you think executives really understand that crucial relationship between their digital business, their brand and the role that security networking specifically security will help network and security, secure networking will impact their brand and their business? I think they starting to appreciate the impact. I think it's much in the face now, you know, the numerous attacks that are out there. In fact, I was saying to some of my colleagues and some of my peers on Friday morning I was on a conference call and it was completely, it was the first time that I was meeting an individual and about three months before that I had spoken to his CIO, the employee's CIO and I'd spoken to him about his challenges and I was articulating the value of his brand because they make critical components of motor vehicles and we were talking about what if that is a malfunction so it then got down to this individual and we had a conversation and I said to him, I said, you know, it was interesting what you shared with me because it almost sounded like I was having a conversation with you but you were talking to me so that your CIO asked you to take this action, it wasn't, it's just become a business problem that's being discussed at the boardroom level. You know, I think, you know, if you live in the US and you know, like myself, you know, I've now become a user of this thing called Amazon my wife's a more frequent user myself but we rely that apostle is delivered at a certain time and we rely on the fact that if Amazon tells us it's going to be shipped and we will receive it, you know, my nine-year-old, he wants to have his Pokemon cards arrive on Friday, not on Saturday so we have to rely that there is integrity in what they are sharing with us and that they have to rely that their partners have integrity in their systems and they're going to have to start demonstrating that these are secure systems, these are secure manufacturing plants, these are secure supply chain plants. But what is that, C-suite? And I'm glad that you brought that question up, Peter, because I'm very, I'm always curious, this can't be a conversation anymore at the network security level because it's so- Or just at the network security level. Exactly, it's so pervasive, right? From a C-suite's perspective, what are the outcomes that that CIO has to deliver back to the business? I mean, you mentioned healthcare a minute ago and obviously that's an industry that affects every single person, whether the data is true or not, it affects all of us, but that CIO has to deliver outcomes so that that business, whether it's a hospital or an e-commerce vendor like an Amazon has to deliver to meet their customer's needs. So how is Dimensionator and Fortinet helping that CIO meet her or his business level objective so that business is competitive, is successful, et cetera? Absolutely, so a little bit about Dimensionator, so you know, we go to market with practices, so we have a digital business solutions practice and we partner very heavily with our digital business solutions practice who work with clients around ideation, who work with clients around how they're going to transform their business. So when we talk about smart healthcare, what does that really mean to a user? You know, from a pharmaceutical perspective, from a hospital perspective, how does that really help? You know, we've got a number of use cases where we demonstrate to clients, you know, what's the value of providing better service to someone when they are first impacted or first injured? We can diagnose, we can detect, and we can communicate back to be it the hospital or a healthcare provider, that's the service that has high integrity. And I'm going to subscribe to a healthcare provider or a healthcare practitioner that subscribes to a smart healthcare philosophy. You know, I'm a traveling father, I'm a traveling husband, but the value for me is knowing that I'm always connected and the services that I subscribe to by providers have integrity. And that my wife doesn't have to provide, you know, the details on a continuous basis to multiple providers. You know, I had a very emotional conversation once to an individual who shared, you know, the impact of sharing data on multiple instances with multiple providers. It wasn't that they had to share, but it was the delayed cause by having to share the information on multiple instances and then the associated risk.  So be cautious what you share, right? So I got one quick question for you. We're talking increasingly about critical infrastructure. We're having more conversations in theCUBE, but it's not broadly diffusing into the general population. And a lot of that is, one of the reasons for that is people think it's going to be unbelievably expensive. But it seems to me, and this is what I'm testing, that an investment in updating critical infrastructure so that you got better security, you got more network ability, you are using technology more appropriately, will also have the benefit that you can increase the optimization of the resources that are associated with that infrastructure. Is there, do you see that kind of, as you work with clients, do you see that kind of ameliorating trade-off where, yes, we have to invest in these things, but there is a derivative benefit that we're going to increase the optimization of them? Absolutely. So, you know, I'll answer that in a number of different ways, right? But the first one is, it's efficiency. And that's what everybody's driving towards. Can we get greater efficiency by integrating these two worlds? But as you said, what they don't realize is, you can't just connect these two worlds without making sure that they are capable of being integrated. And that's the first stance that we take with a number of clients, irrespective of the industry that they're in is, you know, what do you know? And what do you think you know? Because if you have an understanding and you have a design of what needs to be enabled or what needs to be remediated and what needs to be changed, you can move a lot faster. And you know who to engage in terms of partnerships. You know, I was talking about that example earlier. There was absolutely, you know, a case where the client knew immediately that if we connect these two worlds, the devices that facilitate the connection need to be replaced. Another example was, you know, a client was implementing a software-defined network for all their plants. What they didn't realize was that technology would not enable that software-defined networking. So without a plan, which we've been extremely intentional in building what we call a cybersecurity advisory for operational technology networks, is to help our clients with that design and that plan and methodology to go and execute. Last question in about 30 seconds. No pressure. Yeah. A lot of growth, a lot of potential in the market that Kenzie, Patrice, Parsh talked about this morning during the keynote. What excites you about this momentum that their business growth is carrying into 2019? So I think, you know, a number of ways to answer, but 30 seconds, what I'm grateful for is how is Kenzie and Patrice articulated. It's all about education. If we have the right people, we can move faster. Second is that there's immense value in the integration of their fabric network. You know, we see a lot of value in the client conversations that we have today. What do we have that we can leverage? How can we make it better as opposed to replace? That will give us the ability. You know, Patrice mentioned a stat of 50% of organizations have unful roles. And I think sometimes it may be greater because it depends on who we're measuring, right? And what roles in these organizations. But the potential for us is incredible as a managed security service provider and a platform organization that we have the teamwork in Fortinet that allows us to co-invest in the platform that we are building to deliver better outcomes to our clients. Well, Warren, it's been a pleasure to have you on theCUBE with me this afternoon. Thank you, it's been a great pleasure to have you. We look forward to hearing more great news from Dimension Data and Fortinet over the next year and years to come. Thank you so much. Love you to be here. Our pleasure. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE.


My name is Jan and I'm with the Moodle team of the University of Minster. And recently we've had quite an interesting development project that is on integrating own cloud and next cloud with Moodle and this is what I'm going to talk about. Let me do a quick show of hands first. Two of you has ever heard about own cloud or next cloud. It has a general idea of what it is. Okay, quite a lot of you who is already using it at the institution or personally. All right, not so many but I hope there will be more. Just for everyone who didn't hear about it yet, probably you know Dropbox. It's a cloud file sharing service where you can put all your files and basically they are wherever you are because you have a mobile app to access them. You can have clients on every computer that you have. And next cloud and own cloud do the same thing but in that sense they are more like Moodle because own cloud and next cloud are open source projects that you can host on premise which means that you can put all your files into your own kind of Dropbox and have it everywhere and take the files with you. But you retain all control about the files which is pretty great. Which is something that especially in Germany is very demanded by many people and by many institutions. Yeah, so this is something that we've tackled in the past months. And well, a little pluck at first to say where we're coming from. Our Moodle installation is called LearnWeb and it's established since 2007 and basically is a thing in everyday life of all our teachers and students right now. Yeah, because we have to use it, oh we are using it for our courses and it's really convenient. And then three years ago, we have a new offering at our university that is called SkiBo, well actually Cybo because it's the science box which is an own cloud installation for the University of Münster but that is also offered for all universities in the states of North and Westphalia. So right now we have, I think actually 28, sorry for the mistake here, 28 institutions that are connected to this own cloud installation that they can use. And I guess there will be more in the next couple of months. Yes, and this is basically what we're trying to do in terms of data protection, in terms of having our files within the institution or at least within the same state of North and Westphalia. And we have a setup that allows for five petabyte of storage capacity and basically every user, every student and teacher is granted 30 gigabytes for free. So that's already more than Dropbox here. And now what we wanted to have because both services are expected to play a key aspect in everyday life of all our staff and students is to have a tight integration between both of them. So that it's easy to use the own cloud service from Moodle. Just to clarify a bit, basically whenever I say own cloud or next cloud, this means that both products from a Moodle perspective are pretty much the same from a technical perspective, of course they aren't anymore, but both basically you share the same histories. So next cloud has started two years ago, but with the same roots as own cloud. And we are using interfaces of own cloud and next cloud that are still the same. So everything that I say will apply to own cloud as well as next cloud anyway. All right, and in order to have an integration here, let me do a quick motivation. You have the problem or maybe the convenience that all your files are probably in own cloud or in next cloud, like when you're a student, you're working on assignments together with other people then the final product might already be in own cloud. And when you want to upload this assignment, the end result to Moodle, then right now the thing you have to do is you have to download the file from own cloud to your own computer or to your mobile phone and then re-upload it again in Moodle. And that is basically unnecessary steps. Instead we could connect Moodle directly to own cloud in order to let Moodle draw the files right from own cloud onto the Moodle server without this intermediate step. There is a plugin in Moodle that can be used in order to achieve this. And this is called the Web Dove plugin. You can actually use it because Web Dove is the file protocol that is used by own cloud and next cloud. However, this plugin has a few downsides because first of all, you have to configure it as an administrator in order for your users. But if you do this, then there's no private storage. So everyone has access to the same files and that's not really what you want. As an administrator, you can let your users configure it themselves, but then they can basically connect to any kind of service that uses Web Dove. So I don't know if you want that. And now the major technical problem is that it actually stores your own cloud password in the Moodle database in order to be able to access this repository. And this is not really something that you want because whenever something might happen to you at a database, then the user's passwords of own cloud and next cloud are basically in the hands of others. So for me personally, this is a no go. We didn't want to deploy this. We rather wanted a solution that can access own cloud files without having to store the user's password in Moodle, right? And there are approaches for this. The approach that we took is the OAuth protocol. That is something you might already know when you were surfing the web. You have buttons for login with Google or login with Facebook, and what happens in the background is basically an OAuth process where you sign up to Facebook at Facebook. So only Facebook knows your Facebook password and that's the way to go. And the password is then replaced by a randomly generated token that serves as a replacement for the password for any further communication between the two servers. So this is something that we wanted to implement for own cloud and next cloud. Actually, this wasn't possible before, but we basically developed a plugin for own cloud so that own cloud can act as a OAuth server in order to be able to handle this authentication process. And we developed a set of plugins for Moodle that use this OAuth process in order to authenticate with next cloud and own cloud in order to then exchange files. Yeah, so the result that we have are two plugins that I want to show you. First of all, there is an activity module. This is not yet released to plugin directory because it's still work in progress. I'd like to say that first. But we think it's very useful and we will release it in the next couple of months. So consider the following situation. Imagine you are a teacher of a course with like 40 students. And you want to divide these students into groups. Okay, so 40 is bad. Let's say 36 students. You want to divide them into groups of six. They have to work on assignments. They have to collaborate on this. They will maybe have to write a couple of documents, maybe exchange pictures. And you want to provide them with a means of exchanging these files without them having to decide on what service to use and how they will go about this. So what you would probably do now is you would create Dropbox folders for each of the six groups. I say Dropbox because that would be the story skill situation that was also used at our university. You would create Dropbox folders for each of the groups and then you would have to collect the email addresses or the usernames of the students at Dropbox. So maybe you would pass around a sheet of paper. Everyone fills in their email address. And then when you are back at home you will have to invite every member of each group to their respective folder using this email address. And if you've ever typed in a set of handwritten email addresses then you know that it is tedious. There will be a typo somewhere. Maybe you will invite the wrong person because of a typo or something like this. And that is actually something that can be automated very well, right? So what our plugin does as an activity module is it connects to your own cloud. It creates one folder for each group individually and then invites all the members of the group to the own cloud folder. Yeah, so that is what happens automatically and you will be relieved of the manual task of having to invite every single person of this group. This is presented as an activity module which means that it will be integrated very good in your course pages. And basically the process is that the teachers create this activity module in order to offer this as a service to students. And so the students can decide to use it by clicking on this activity module in their course, then logging into own cloud. And in that instant this folder will be shared with them. So basically every student member has to click on this activity, every group member has to click on this activity once. Then they all have this folder within their own cloud and they can work with the applications that they're using on a day to day basis in their own cloud. So this is work in progress right now. I will share the link at the latest slide if you're interested in the code. And maybe you can watch out there when for the release of this plugin if you're interested in this. The other thing is actually ready and has been published since October if I'm not mistaken to the plugin directory. This is a very simple means of integrating Moodle and own cloud because it allows this aspect of directly accessing own cloud files from within Moodle without this intermediate step of copying things to your computer. As I said this is a password less authentication strategy so if you have the Moodle file picker the first thing you will be presented with is a log into your account button. And you click on that and this takes you in a separate window to your next cloud installation. You will have to type in your next cloud username and password there so this is shared only with next cloud and not with Moodle. And then next cloud asks you whether you want to grant access to Moodle accessing your files as a server-sided application. As a user you would click on grant access and then the next thing you see is the file picker with all the files that you have in your next cloud and you can select from these files and directly upload them into Moodle. So this is just for comparison on the lower right you can see your next cloud folder with all the files that you have uploaded there and there's one file that is actually been shared with another person probably and on Moodle you see the exact same files showing up. All right. Yeah so when you select one of these files here you are presented with two options right now. One option is just as you would regularly interact with the file you can upload it which means that Moodle will download a copy from this file from your next cloud and then put this into the file here that we talked about in the last presentation and create basically an entire copy of the file within Moodle. That is quite useful for example if you want to make sure that the file isn't tampered with later on. For example in assignments then it's very important that this is a hard copy of the file that cannot be changed after submission by students. And the alternative option is you can also create a link to this file which might be nice when you are a teacher and you want to upload your presentation to the Moodle course and whenever you make changes to your presentation you want them to be reflected in Moodle as well. So that is what happens when you create a link to the file because whenever changes are made to the file the file doesn't need to be changed in Moodle. It's just the same link to the same kind of file and the changes will appear in Moodle right away. Yes, plugins have the option of prohibiting this linking mode and for example Mod Assign is doing exactly that in order to prevent students from uploading files that they can change later on. In the back end it works like this. We are also using the webtof protocol in order to communicate with the file system of OnCloud. And the webtof protocol is used in order to download the files into Moodle. And when we are talking about linking then what happens in the background is we use a programming interface that is offered by OnCloud and NextCloud which is called the OCS API. And what happens in the background is it creates a share in NextCloud. So a public share, you might know this from Dropbox as well. Basically it creates a link, a URL that is randomly generated that is hard to guess. And this link is then copied into Moodle. Okay, so the actual file isn't really reflected only by this link. You have to know of course this is always a public URL. There's no listing of public URLs in an OnCloud directory but it's always possible to guess this URL or the first student who accesses this file through Moodle will also know the URL then and can maybe pass it on to others. So this is strictly not intended for something that needs to remain private within your course but that could still be a very useful feature, right? All right, so here are some useful links. First of all, this repository is available on the plugin directory. You can look for OnCloud or for NextCloud and actually we've published several versions and we will continue to publish several versions of this in order to provide you with a proper branding. So if you're using an OnCloud installation you would probably download the OnCloud version and if you have a NextCloud installation you would want to download the NextCloud version. The only thing that's really different is the icon that is presented in the file picker so that your users will have something that can reflect your actual installation that they recognize, right? Then there's the collaborative folders activity just if you're curious about the code or if you want to maybe contribute to this but we will hope to publish this in the next couple of months and in case you have like problems with installing any of these we've started to assemble a wiki in the Moodle docs with a few hurdles that you might come across and that we hope will help you solve installation issues if you have any. All right, then I want to give credit to the ones who have actually initially developed this because we at the University of Münster we have now taken over maintenance and we will continue to develop and maintain these plugins but initially this was actually made by a student group so we had five students from the University of Münster who did this as part of the classes in information systems bachelor program where for a semester they had to work on a project and in this case the project where the Moodle own cloud integration plugins. So this is actually us at the University at the technically University of Berlin where the own cloud conference happened and we got together with the own cloud developer guys who helped us a lot in implementing this and there's us sitting in the lecture hall, but anyway. All right, that's it from me. If you have any questions feel free to ask right now or maybe later at the conference and here are my details if you want to reach me. Thank you. Thank you. Questions? There's one up there. What? One question up there. Hi, a question about the security aspect you were mentioning about it creating the public folders. Is that going to be the same on the new plug-in that's coming out where you're allowing an area for five or six students to collaborate within a course? Will that be a public folder as well? Pardon, I don't think I got the question, sorry. I was, it's a question about the security aspects where you're saying that I think the second plug, the plug-in that's available already effectively creates a public folder and so it's not somewhere to, a way of sharing, a way of sharing confidential documents. Do you mean the collaborative folders part or this linking to a repository? The linking to repository, yeah. Okay, well you're linking only to individual files, but my question is if the collaborative folders one where you create within, you're the new plug-in that hasn't been published yet, but from what I understand, you're creating folders within Moodle for a group of students to access. Will those, is that secure? Or are there ways that people could get into it by either guessing the URL or if somebody shared the URL? No, other people won't have a chance to access them. The collaborative folder shares, creates folders in own cloud or next cloud and shares them with all the students who are involved in a group privately. So there's no way to access them if you aren't in this group in Moodle. So this is really tightly coupled into this Moodle group system and then there are only private shares. All right, okay, thanks. Any further questions? Martin. Thank you, Jan. I just wanted to say this is a really cool initiative. We've been, I've been meeting with the next cloud CEO and team and we're working on, we both want to work a lot closer together and we have intention to over the coming year or two. I think next cloud is the best option, next cloud, own cloud. So there was a fork, if you don't know, I would put all my money on next cloud. But that is the best option going forward. If you want to get off Google Drive or Office 365, those repositories and get into an open thing, next cloud is the thing that's leading the pack. So Jan, who stepped up with University of Munster too, to do this integration is super helpful and very important. And I would love to see if anyone's interested in making that integration super awesome. That talk to this guy and help, because I think it'd be a great project to have. Let's see, a Moodle and next cloud together are a quite dynamite combination. Thanks for the encouraging remark. Just carrying on from Martin's point a bit. Do you think, because next cloud, known cloud support apps within that side of the platform as well, do you see any scope for creating a Moodle plugin within next cloud to provide any sort of functionality there? You mean for this functionality? Well, just for in general, for Moodle integration. That would always be possible, of course. On cloud and next cloud are both very extendable through this app system. So what we call plugins are apps in on cloud and next cloud. And you can always think of very interesting integration scenarios. So for example, one app they have developed is live editing features for documents. So like Google Drive document editing, but in next cloud and on cloud. And I would very much like to see a plugin that would support this, for example. But I think we would need to discuss on where to integrate this in Moodle exactly and how this would bring any benefits to make this perfect. Definitely. Question, could this be integrated into the group assignment? To create assignments for groups? Could that be, I could say, a part as an option? I would consider this a part, but I would basically separate the functionality into two different things. But you could always very well use a combination of both collaborative folders and a group assignment like right next to each other, right? So you have the collaborative folders in order to collaboratively create documents that will later be submitted as part of the group assignment. Yes, definitely. You mentioned that it's possible to disable linking to the files. Is it possible to disable copying of the files? I think, if somebody wants to link to a few gigabyte file, I would like to disable just offer next cloud as an option to share big files to keep them off the Moodle. That would be an interesting addition to this plugin. So it's not possible as of now, especially not on a per file basis, but of course it would be great to disable uploading for every file that's larger than your upload limit and just linking them. I think effectively, I've never tried this, but effectively I guess uploading a file that is larger than the limit will fail, but probably only after it has been uploaded. So actually it would be too late. But you can find out how large this file is from on cloud. It will create an error and then a problem. It's a good idea for an extension of this plugin. Thanks. I have a question, also. So have you tried with the mobile app that this file linking with next cloud works? No, we haven't tried this so far because we aren't using the Moodle mobile app yet. But that would be very interesting to try out. I don't know, do you have support for repositories in general in the mobile app? Yeah, you know that in Moodle 3.3, we include support for OneDrive and Google Drive. And we did some enhancements in the mobile app to support file linking and offline files. So right now, if you implement repository plugin like this one, like next cloud, you can serve files in different ways. You can serve an offline version of the file that will be, so for example, if you are doing linking, instead doing a redirection, because this is not going to work offline, you will generate an offline version of this document. So you will be able to use it offline in the mobile app. Okay, so I would follow this link and download the contents from the link. Yeah, so if, yeah, if you are, so we have a special parameter in the mobile app. So if we are offline, so if you are downloading a course for offline, we pass a special parameter to the repository, sorry, the alarm of this. We should finish. There is a special parameter that is called offline. So instead doing the redirection, in that case, you should generate, create an offline version of the document. So for example, in Google Drive, instead of redirecting to a PDF file, you return a PDF path that we download in the app. So if when you are using the app, if you are offline, we display the offline version of the document, but if you are connected, we follow the redirection. So this is how it works for supporting offline documents in the mobile app, but we can talk later. I would assume this would work, but I think we should check it out together and maybe we can talk about it. It would be really great to see support for this repository in the mobile app as well, of course, because that's where it's most helpful, I guess. Thanks. Thank you.


Today, I'm gonna share with you the story of my greatest failure, or at least what I had considered up until this point to be my greatest failure. But in order to get to that part of the story, I need to begin at the beginning. I was 18 years old, enrolled in university, and I was just like so eager to get out of university. From the time I got in there, I was under this mentality that I was there to expand my horizons to see if, okay, am I gonna do something with this degree? Am I gonna pursue a particular area? I considered becoming a counselor, but at that point, I was still confused about what I wanted to do. But by the end of my first semester, I was convinced that I was going to drop out. So I went to my parents and, because I really respect their opinion on a lot of things and just generally wanted their input on this, I had said, I really wanna drop out.  And I agree with that. And so I said, okay, you know what? I'll go back for one more. At the end of the second semester, I was committed to dropping out.  If it doesn't, I'll figure something out. I just know that this is not the thing for me. So over those next few months, I began to focus more attention on my YouTube channel, put it on more videos. I would get so excited when they got over like 50 views because I'm like, yeah, people are watching them other than my friends. This is awesome. But we also got some news during that time that was really, they really kind of transformed a few years in my life and the life of my family.  And this, it's not understatement to say that this was life altering in a lot of ways because you don't expect this to happen to your mom. You hear about other people, other people's moms, other people's parents getting cancer and you think that would never happen to my mom. And it did. And so my mom was undergoing treatment. And meanwhile I was homeschooled growing up and my siblings, younger siblings were still being homeschooled at the time. And so my mom undergoing treatment, me and my older sister said we'd step in and help homeschool my younger siblings. And during that time, I really sensed the Lord's leading to begin to write a book about father-son relationships. And I know this seems kind of out of pocket, like that seems kind of random. Why would you just want to start writing a book on that? Up until this point, my dad had been such an important influence in my life. He had been so instrumental in my pursuit of what I believe God was calling me to do and just my spiritual development in general and starting daily disciple in a big way and him encouraging me to pursue that. And so it seemed only natural to me that I want to talk about father-son relationships and honestly talk about the things that young men don't tell their dads. You know, for a long time, it was hard for me to bring up certain things to him. But as we grew closer and closer, I just began to understand the benefits of opening up to him in this way and us having this more close relationship. And I wanted that for other sons. I wanted that for other fathers to be able to grow together. So I began to write this book throughout my mom's cancer treatment and homeschooling my younger siblings as well. Thankfully, by God's grace, my mom's healed. Amazing, cancer-free. It's such an amazing, exciting. I could shoot multiple videos on that whole journey as well. I finished my book and I was so excited about it. I run kind of a self-publishing Kickstarter to help raise money so I could actually self-publish the thing. And in October of 2019, I believe it was, I published it. And not too long after that, we all kind of know what happened to our world and things shut down. Before that, I had been to one conference and I sold my book there and it was very fun.  But then that world event happened and that kind of shook things up. There was also some discouragement around my book. And I began to kind of just bury it. I was like, you know what? I'm not able to sell this in person to people and I don't know, it's been a long time. So I just kind of let it die. And for a long time, I felt like that was my greatest failure that I had wrote this book that I was so excited about and am so excited about. And I had told so many stories in it that I'd never shared before and pulled so many lessons about just what I had been learning in my faith and my relationship with my dad and equipping fathers and sons to grow together and what that looks like in their relationship. And yet I had just kind of pushed it to the side because why? Well, I think some of those insecurities of old came back up. I began to question, is this book even good? You know, is this even worth getting out there? And so I just sat on a bunch of boxes of books for a long, long time. But then I got a message. I got a few emails from people that said, hey, Isaac, I've read your book and I thought it was really good. And it's helped me in my relationship with my son and I was like, dang, okay, that's cool. And then I went back to that same conference that I first sold my book at and people came up to me and they said, Isaac, hey, this has really been a healing journey in my relationship with my dad. And I was like, wow, okay, that's awesome. And a couple of moms came up to me and they said, Isaac, I read your book and I think I understand my son better and I'm able to connect with him in a deeper way. And so now it's kind of led me to this point where I've really, haven't really promoted it at all just because it was something that I kind of pushed away and I was like, okay, I guess the time has passed. The big world event happened and that kind of crushed my dreams of really getting it out there. But no, I'm actually gonna take this back. And I think this is, I really do believe that this is what God wants me to do with this is, hey, I've written this book, I've spent so much energy and time on this and I really do believe it's gonna help you in your relationship with your son and your relationship with your dad. If you have a husband, if you give this to him, I'm sure this will be a blessing in his life. And so here's what I'm doing. Okay, here's what I'm doing. You can go to the link in my description and you can buy the book and I'm offering free shipping right now for anybody in North America. So all you need to do is just pay the price of the book and I will send it to you personally. I will sign it for you. I might even put a little letter in there for you and you can have the book. And I think this is the step in the right direction. This is getting out what I haven't shared a lot of this stuff, you know. A lot of these stories are really personal and I just don't feel comfortable sharing them on YouTube.  So there you go. If you wanna pick it up, it'd be an amazing blessing to me and I hope it'll be an amazing blessing to you as well as you read it and just know this, okay? The thing that you think is your greatest failure in this moment, it actually might not be. It actually might not be. You might be building up maybe based on your own expectations or how you thought things were gonna work out. God can completely turn it around. He can totally turn it around. Until next time, God bless.