Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. A very good afternoon, almost evening. Good evening. Honorable Minister, Minister of Mosty, yang beromant, Chiang Lee Kang. Tan Sri, not here. Oh, Vice-Chancellor is here. Residen Sibrandes, POPIMA. Prof. Jeffrey Sachs of SDSN Asia. Emma Torres, Vice-President of SDSN Asia in charge of America. Vice-President in charge of Asia. Prof. Datuk Wu Wing Tai. Professors distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to the AWSD, ASEAN Workshop for Sustainable Development. And this particular session is a very important one, plenary session two, mobilizing signs for protection of bio-D and for success of President Lula's OPEC of rainforests. Yeah, very important. We got a call from Embassy of Brazil. But never mind, we shall talk about that later. For this particular plenary session, we shall be listening to four very important speakers, the Honorable Minister of Mousty. You will be given 20 minutes to speak. The other three speakers, because we need to conclude before the sunset, the other three speakers, 13 minutes. And in order, four more speakers. Oh, yeah, the Excellency, Steve Baraklar. Are you here? Oh, Steve. I'm so sorry. You are fellow alumnus with me, University of Queensland. 31. Bapak, Prof. Muhammad 100 Iman Chah also from University of Queensland. Three alumna here. So sorry, Steve. Anyway, it's going to be a very interesting session. But in order so that we finish before sunset, there will be two beautiful ladies who shall be keeping the time. Miss Yara and Wenyi, please stand up. Ya. Even the Minister, we will remind you if there is first the signage will be up is five minutes. Second signage is one minute. Third signage.  But anyway, that's the order for this plenary session two. Next up is before we invite the Honorable Minister, let me introduce him for a bit. The Honorable Minister, Yang Behamat Chang Lee Kang has served the Minister of Science, Technology and Innovation since December 2022. So it's about eight months. Ya, about eight months. And he is a Member of Parliament for Tanjung Malim since May 2018. He served as a Member of the Para-State Legislative Assembly for Teja from March 2008 to May 2018 and has also served as Vice President of the People Justice Party since December 2018. Yang Behamat Lee Kang holds a Bachelor of Engineering in Civil Engineering from University Putra Malaysia, UPM. Well done. And a Masters in Public Administration from the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy National University of Singapore. Yang Behamat Chang Lee Kang The Honorable Minister of Ministry, please. Please welcome Yang Behamat Chang Lee Kang. Thank you very much, Professor. Yang berbagai... Oh, no, Professor Jeffrey Sex, Dr. Rose Mary Yang berbagai Tan Sri Rasman Hashim Fellow Panelist Ladies and gentlemen, Prof. Bu Weng Tai, Prof. Chin Huat, my fellow, my friend and all, all our friends in Sunway University, Salam Sejahtera, Salam Malaysia Madani. In fact, first of all I would like to thank Prof. Wu for having me here for inviting me. And I'm sorry today I have to put on my mask I'm not well today. In fact, I also don't know why I'm here.  In fact, my fellow Khalid, my cabinet Khalid, Wabinik Nasmi, he's the right person. He's in charge of these natural resources, environment and climate change. But anyway, at least in the title, there's something related to science, which is mobilising science for protection of biodiversity and for success of President Lula's Opak of Rainforest. And then I was just informed by Emma that it's not from Lula, it's the Guardian. Later, we will hear from her. Well, just before I start on policy and policy direction of Malaysia on this rainforest, I just want to briefly introduce some of the status of biodiversity in Malaysia. So right now, Malaysia is one of the 12 mega diverse countries in the world, based on the 6th National Report of Malaysia on Convention on Biological Diversity CBD. There are about 15,000 waskilla plant species and 30% endemic, 2,795 vertebrate species and 1,100 endemic, 4,000 km2 of coral reef more than 77% of world-known species and there are sea grass and mangrove ecosystem in Malaysia and some of the most diverse in the world and are important feeding ground for juvenile fishes migratory sea birds and marine mammals. So before coming here, Google What is the Opax of Rainforest I thought it is initiated by President Lula during the COP 27 and the idea muted where Brazil, Indonesia and Democratic Republic of Congo are in talks to form a strategic alliance in coordinating conservation of tropical rainforest which these three countries account for 52% of world total area so agreement signed during COP 26 by these three countries to hot and reverse deforestation by 2030. So Malaysia also we have quite a significant area of rainforest based on NRECC media statement dated 1st of July this year forest cover in Malaysia is 18 million hectare approximately 54.6% of total land area in Malaysia and Malaysia forest conservation has been showing a good improvement with latest report from World Resources Institute Global Forest Watch and University of Maryland ranked Malaysia as fourth country in the world for reduction in primary forest loss as of 2022 that is about 57% reduction comparing 2020 to 2022 period with 2015 to 2017 however Malaysia still rank as number 10 country in the world for total rainforest in 2022 which is about 70,000 hectare so there are much more effort needs to be to be done to bring this number down and I also would like to take this opportunity to introduce my ministry as mentioned by Prof Maslin just now I made a minister barely 8 month about 7 month plus and as I say I'm a rookie in this area but because it's science, technology and innovation I would like to see science and technology can help us solve or at least mitigate some of the pressing issues like food security and climate change so why am I here maybe I think maybe because before this so this ministry was called which is a ministry of energy science, technology, environment and climate change so the portfolio was help by minister Yorbi Yin it was a super ministry but after 2020 after 2020 we have separated the super ministry into two one is MOSTY the other one is NRACC so today mainly I will talk about how to mobilize science to help to solve some of these issues that we are facing right now I'm sure this morning Wai Binig he has shared his insight about safeguarding biodiversity and other things but I think MOSTY has a role to play by being the technology frontier and enabler for such effort so Malaysia has various policy in place for biodiversity protection that is related to SDI and also ultimately contribute to Malaysia plash to achieve the emission reduction target what has Malaysia plashed in the past corp sorry sorry I missed the thing but in the past corp Malaysia plashed by 2050 we will achieve net zero greenhouse gas emission and low emission development strategy by lowering carbon intensity per unit of GDP through an act of energy efficiency and conservation by 2023 which is this year also climate change bill by next year secondly we also plashed that by 2030 100% of government fleet to be non-ice and also 50% at least 50% forest coverage and also Malaysia plashed to adopt nature based solution to reduce long term impact through planting 100 million trees and also utilizing ways to energy concept to move towards zero waste to landfill and increase recycling rate to 40% by 2025 and also renewable energy makes target currently is at 23% so we have really plashed that by 2025 we want to reach 31% by 2035 we want to reach 40% excuse me by 2050 we want to reach 70% of renewable energy mix so in fact we have launched framework called 1010 MySTIE 10 1010 Malaysia Science Technology Innovation and Economy Framework that's why in acronym is 1010 MySTIE so this framework help us to identify 10 socio-economic drivers and with the application of 10 science and technology drivers to help to achieve our goals so example environmental and biodiversity has been identified as one of the 10 socio-economic drivers so we have this two categories where under this MySTIE framework we have divided it into two categories to help to enhance environmental and biodiversity in Malaysia there one category is cash up the other one is a leapfrog so cash up is something currently we are doing or we have the capacity to for instance video monitoring system using 5G and AI model to prevent illegal poaching and deforestation so that is one of the our category under this cash up secondly river robots for automated waste collection and recycling third mangrove forest using drones and sensors for tree planting, land mapping and data collection these are the 3 examples we are using this 10.10 MySTIE framework and also there are other examples but I will only touch on 3 and then I give you another 3 examples what is what it means by leapfrog one of the thing that I can mention here is gene editing and modification of genomes for social economic benefits to help endangered species adapt to environmental change this is one of our one of our approaches secondly we have this DNA bar coding as a global standard for the identification of biological species and assessment of biodiversity then we also have this synthetic biology for protecting threatened species and restoring degraded ecosystem so these are another 3 examples which we use leapfrog approach in this 10.10 STIE framework besides we are looking at achieving net zero greenhouse gas emission by 2050 so from now to 2050 there will be some drastic not very drastic gradual but significant change in the government policy because we can't be doing on one hand net zero emission but on the other hand we keep subsidizing and also generating cheap electricity using coal so there will be changes so one of it we are going to launch this national energy transition roadmap NETR and this policy this policy will secure countries long term energy security with environmental and economic sustainability in mind and we work towards establishing robust environmental laws encouraging the use of alternative renewable energy and adopting environmentally friendly practices as of now Malaysia contribution to global greenhouse gas emission I will say quite low 0.8% but still there are a lot of rooms for improvement then of course secondly besides this national energy transition roadmap so it will involve a lot of we will call that subsidy rationalization so we will talk about it later not during this state election time this is a problem when you have politician on the stage and on man on most this part we also we launched we have already drafted and we are going to launch in the fourth quarter this year the hydrogen economy and technology roadmap 2023 to 2050 so this roadmap we have already already gotten approval from the cabinet and also the national science council definitely we are going to launch and it is complementary to this national energy transition roadmap and basically we have three main goals one is so the hydrogen to be cornerstone of new energy economy and Malaysia to be the leader among region country secondly to achieve sustainable energy mix through usage of hydrogen thirdly investment in hydrogen technologies for entire value chain from excuse me from production delivery and end use so we have done a very thorough study on this on hydrogen economy and i think we are not only looking at the economy but we want to also look at how to reduce carbon emission by reducing fossil fuel so this is another i will say a major move so we are still at the very initial stage for our hydrogen economy as of now even mobility also we are still looking at EV instead of hydrogen but i see much potential in hydrogen because according according to what according to study that we have done hydrogen especially on green hydrogen production there will be a huge market in 2050 it will involve US$1.89 million by 2050 and about 2% will be from Malaysia about $3.1 billion for green hydrogen generation and we have the competitive advantage especially we have hydro we have solar and those green electrons are important for us to produce green hydrogen so this is what we are looking at and in fact coming starting from well hopefully by end of this year we can have another hydrogen plant well experimental it's a pilot plant will be built in penasaran Malaysia because the first one is in Sarawak and in fact Sarawak we just got hydrogen tram from China so Sarawak is quite advanced in terms of hydrogen and we are catching up well i think that's all but also there are some concrete examples where most is funding some of the companies that will help us reduce carbon emission and we are looking at that i give you an example there is this company called next green park paper and we have already sponsored 2.8 million ringgit and they are using they are producing sustainable food packaging material from oil pump empty fruit branch so this is one of the companies that we are mostly is funding the other one task block they are producing this green industry building system utilizing like weight kenaf kenaf base composite material so this is another company we have already funded about 500 thousand and the other one free the seed we have funded 2.1 million ringgit we we have already set pilot plan for pre-commercialization of rice straw fiber pop for packaging products so they use rice straw to produce packaging product okay i know i know don't worry i can see coming to an end so this are some of the effort that mosti is putting in well although climate change is not part of the portfolio of mosti but we are still looking at it because we need collaboration from all ministries and also all countries because we know in climate change we can't work in silo so that's all thank you very much once again and thank you for bearing with me terima kasih yang berhomad Cang Lee Kang terima kasih kepada minister Cang Lee Kang next up is welcome Emma Torres the coordinating strategic coordinator of the amazon we want whoever has read the report the amazon we want 34 chapters 1000 pages i think i'm at page number 18 anyway let me introduce Emma Torres she is vice president for the americas for the un sustainable development solutions network SDSN a global network of more than 1800 universities today research centers and other knowledge institution and all this are committed to sustainable development goals Emma Torres serve as strategic coordinator at the science panel of the amazon she enjoys a long working experience in the united nations on program development and negotiation to promote sustainable development initiatives globally at UNDP she coordinated 3 reports Latin America and the Caribbean a biodiversity superpower then our own agenda and the third one Amazonia without myth Emma Torres holds an MA in economics from university that Complutense Madrid Spain i hope i pronounce it correctly i think i've been to this university certificates in environmental economics and climate change from IIED University Please welcome Emma Torres Vice president Thank you very much for this warm introduction wonderful to follow the ministers that have been with us today It's a pleasure to be here in Kuala Lumpur it's been a long time I was working with UNDP and the global environment facility when i came and i really enjoyed very much but i have been to Sanway so this is great to me to see Sanway it's a magnificent transformation that Sanway had and also i learned from my co-vice president that Malaysia competed fuzely with my country bolivia on teen so i said you have to come to bolivia and visit the teen minds in bolivia well thank you very much it's a great pleasure to be with you so this is i'm gonna just very briefly walk with you through the amazon basin this is the largest rainforest that in the world is spanning over eight countries and one national territory which is french cayana is the largest is the largest river discharged on earth 16 to 22% of the world's total river input to the oceans we heard today about the importance of oceans of one of the panellists and this is a very critical contributor to the oceans it stores over between 150 and 200 million tons of carbon in the soils and vegetation but it's also home to 47 million people 47 million which includes 2 about 2.2 million indigenous people among more than 410 groups and some of them still living in voluntary isolation and they speak 300 languages so it's very rich in biodiversity but it's also very rich in culture and it's important for our continent when i coordinated amazonia without meets, gabriel garcía marquez wrote the foreword of that report and he said that all this ceramic in the continent was found in the amazon so it is a very millennial culture but it's also highly threatened by expansion of pastures, croplands new roads, construction of hydrological dams and oil exploitation and more and more illegal activities so there is a risk of crossing a tipping point and this is exactly why the science panel of the amazon was constituted dance here so the amazon panel was established in september 2019 officially was launched in july 2020 in 2019 there were amazing fires in the amazon and a group of scientists that came to new york for the climate summit convened by the secretary general approach sustainable development solutions network specifically professor sacks saying we need to do something about it and we convened 30-40 scientists at that moment at the UN and discussed what was the situation and at that moment the decision was made to constitute a panel of the science panel for the amazon to really learn what is the state of the amazon basis the scientific assessment of the state of the amazon basis this panel is composed of more than 250 scientists 2 thirds are from the amazon countries this was exactly the purpose to have really scientists from the region 40% are female scientists and we also have indigenous people scientists in the panel we have they launched their first report which was the first assessment report of the state of the basin and there's a lot to be known about the amazon a lot is known but never had been a panel that made assessment of the whole basin and that was quite amazing because when you think it's one of the most important basins in the world there was a lot of research at the country level research in various disciplines but never a complete assessment and this morning we heard a lot about the need of connectivity and I would like to say that this effort that the scientists got together provided an enormous connection of work and creativity among them because it was the first time that as a group could make that assessment it was highly peer reviewed and we had a lot of workshops and stakeholders and public consultations as Ali was saying and the report is almost 2,000 pages so I don't expect that you're going to read the whole report some scientists are doing the whole report but we also have some chapters in brief that summarize exactly what each of the chapters are working but I would like to highlight the major messages that came from that report which is number one immediate deforestation moratorium in areas that are reaching the tipping point there are areas that already identify that are reaching a tipping point second, achieve zero deforestation and forest degradation in the Amazon region before 2030 scale up teritorial and aquatic restoration and I think this is critical because there's a lot of degraded areas and there's a lot of potential of hectares that you can rebuild, restore and continue producing food agriculture because if you restore those areas and support the indigenous land rights through titling and recognition provides support to guarantee implementation of the territorial management and protection by indigenous people this is a very important message because worldwide it's already very well documented that the indigenous peoples have been amazing in terms of protecting the forest and I think in the case of the Amazon they have played a critical role today the minister was saying I don't know why I'm here but the minister said you're here because it's critical that we have investment in vibrant bioeconomy we need to invest in a vibrant economy which means that we have to invest in science, technology and innovation and this is one of the key messages of the panel and it's going to the presidential summit that they have to allocate more resources on science, technology and innovation in order to protect the forest because if we have income to the countries they're not going to destroy the forest and I think this is critical so minister, you're very important in this equation we also produce the panel produce already several policy briefs three very critical for Sherma Shek at the COP and I think this was very interesting because it was kind of very well received it was two related one to restoration and somebody here today was saying why the scientists are so academic and you know when they should be doing practical things the scientists should be scientists and they should produce science but what is important that that science could inform policymaking and also business to do business in the case of our science panel of the Amazon the issue of restoration came like a critical area and now a number of companies are doing restoration and I think that's what is good and the science give the message and others pick up the ball from there and there's obviously a dialogue in that process and I think in this case we produce that restoration report also the amazing work that territories have the indigenous territories in preserving the forest and carbon sequestration it was very well received by the media we have quotes from who said that you know they should do the opaque of the forest which is not the forest of the president Lula but it was the aspiration is to coordinate with the major tropical forest and we had engagement with all stakeholders financial sector, investment banks academies of science and the consortium of governors so the whole process is being after the report is really to engage in a dialogue, active dialogue with the major stakeholders and tremendous political momentum right now for the Amazon I think both presidents of Colombia and presidents of Brazil have committed themselves already to zero deforestation by 2030 and the Brazilian development banks are already engaged also in this dialogue how to finance and support those commitments and of course we have including the president macro new financial global financial fact also address the issue of forest and other financial groups I think the most critical moment is now is the president summit of the eight Amazonian countries on the on the Amazon and what is the conservation they can do together this is going to happen now in August and how to mobilize financial resources for that this is a critical moment and president Lula has invited also the president of the democratic republic of Congo and Indonesia to join after the summit and I am excited to continue discussing about the global forest alliance I will not, I think I have very few more minutes so I will just say that we also in SDSN are supporting the establishment of a panel in the Congo basin we are at the beginning of the panel consulting with the scientists but I think we also benefiting from the support of the scientists of the panel of the Amazon in order to sort of leapfrog and get a momentum in Congo to make the second largest important basin Southeast Asia I think I had a very good lesson today from all the interventions of what are you doing in terms of the establishment of the panel is very exciting I would like obviously to discuss a little more about you know what is this how are you going to do the borders how are you going to do the work I ask some of the scientists here why Southeast Asia what is the borders what is the scientific reason to this all these islands that are in this ocean so it's very interesting but I think it's a very interesting discussion to see how the panel be constituent different from the Amazon panel which is primarily driven by forest and here I think the critical initiative of the three rainforest I think this is a wonderful initiative of President Lula to really invite a dialogue that should have happened long time ago but is happening and there is a momentum there so the three important global forests could join and work on conserving the forests on learning how to sustainably invest on those forests and also to mobilize financing these rainforests are critical to achieve 1.5 if we want to do that if we don't want to exceed that these forests are absolutely critical they are critical also to the biodiversity framework adopted in Cuning Montreal and I think what I would like to highlight what I would like to say here is critical cooperation and it's very wonderful that one of the critical things that the science panel for the Amazon is coordinate a regional approach to the Amazon and this could be served as a basis for policy making therefore is a very important input for the presidential summit and the science panel of the Amazon has been invited to address the presidential summit and I think it's a very difficult moment in the world a lot of you have said this morning including the problems with climate change but there's also opportunity and I think here we have a tremendous political momentum to support the tropical forests in the years to come and in the next conventions of biodiversity and climate change Thank you very much Thank you very much Vice President of the Americas Thank you for presenting about the Amazon and the Congo Basin that report really inspired us to now look at the science panel for Southeast Asia and when we were discussing how where should we begin so we look at some of the existing initiatives which are happening in our region one is the Heart of Bono which was launched in 2007 February 2007 by Brunei Darussalam Indonesia, Malaysia the other one is the Coral Triangle Initiative 2009 so when we look at Heart of Bono three countries first yes very good so we look at the more active ones Malaysia, Indonesia and in Malaysia Sabah Heart of Bono program had been very systematic in producing SPA science panel of Amazon is SPA but this SPA is strategic plan of action SPA 1 2 and 3 so about every 5 years Sabah Heart of Bono produce a strategic plan of action and the latest one was launched 2nd December 2022 2, 1, 2 2, 2 I don't know why Datuk Frederick chose this maybe we'll ask him that question later but let me introduce the third speaker is the Chief Conservator of Forest of Sabah who is leading in terms of the Sabah Heart of Bono sit down first let me introduce Rick Kogan is a Forester by Profession having graduated from University Pertanyan Malaysia UPM Yam Bromad Minister you have alumni like me and Steve and from New Brunswick University Canada in 1991 he has been with Sabah Forestry department since 1987 and had served in various position in the planning division and district forest office for 30 years he is currently the Chief Conservator of Forest and Datuk Frederick Kogan was the project director of the recently completed EUREDD Plus the project entitled tackling climate change through sustainable forest management and community development this is one of the things we admire about the Sabah Forestry Department in addition he was also involved in the facilitation and implementation of several conservation initiatives such as the Heart of Bono initiative the Forest Plantation Transformation Plan and the upcoming food systems land use and restoration impact program short name is FOLIR F-O-L-U-R in Sabah Datuk Frederick Kogan is also the co-chair of Jurisdictional Certification Steering Committee a multi stakeholders Steering Committee that spearheads the implementation of the Sabah Jurisdictional Certified Sustainable Palm Oil Initiative There you go ladies and gentlemen to hear more Let's welcome and give a special hand to Datuk Frederick Kogan Chief Conservator Thank you very much Prof Maslin for the very kind introduction I was chatting down there that I need the time short introduction, I need more time here and of course Wai Bichang and of course distinguished fellow professors I think it is very honoured to be here to be standing in front of you what Sabah has what Sabah has done and so forth and what I plan to present to tell all of you what is our plan as far as conservation is concerned and what shape what determinant what are the events that have shaped forestry, the forests in Sabah and conservation is set so basically I will just run through these points looking at the forest today and earlier probably you have heard from many several other sessions they have heard quite a number from Sabah I see very family faces here and Sabah is so small as compared to others I think we got our neighbouring country like Kalimantan they are so big they are big brothers as far as the part of the morning is concerned and before I dive into the subject matter because my title is here it is about forest conservation in Sabah the need for holistic approach for each protection and the way forward so I will look at how Sabah shape from there and basically as maybe some of you for the benefit of some of the participants here Sabah it is in the island of Borneo we are just slightly about 7.3 million hectares small as compared to the whole Borneo island but we are at the top and despite small I think 7.4 million hectares in size I think 64% or about 4.7 million hectares are still forested and that's the situation and out of which our 3.8 million hectares or 52% of the state landmass can legally gazeted as permanent forest reserve I think it is very important to state here that all the reserve forest reserve 52% has been legally gazeted by law so it is not as simple as such that one can just take out or degazet or excise an area for any other purpose it has to go through the state legislative assembly so it has been there for ever since the forest reserve has been established and I think one of the important aspect one of the important milestone that the Sabah has met is in terms of pledging I think we have pledged in 19 2013 that in forest policy that to increase the protected areas to 2.2 million hectares at least 30% of the state landmass by 2025 so this is something additional whatever goals that we have heard SDG goals these are additional goals that the state set for itself in order to achieve and I think that plays Sabah with a very comfortable margin Proof margin that in fulfilling malicious pledge at the Rio summit in terms of maintaining 50% of the country landmass under forest so a very important aspect where we achieve that's why is the forest enactment I think that plays a very important role in terms of institutionalising the forest management system the protection of it and of course in 1984 it was further reinforced with classification by 7 classes looking at various economic objectives and the forest policy has been revised in 2018 whereby it has been further strengthened whereby forest reserve system requiring replacement of any excision like what I mentioned earlier so this contributes towards safeguarding the establishment of performance of forest reserve in the state of Sabah and as I've mentioned earlier about 1.9 million hectares or 2.26% of the landmass has been designated and we're looking for 300,000 hectares yet yet to be identified within the next 3 years by 2025 so where would these 300,000 hectares will come from so this will come from 34% forested areas in the state Sabah so it could be from the protected system whereby changing from production to protection or maybe looking at other areas other state land other forested is beyond the protected areas and besides that I think the other important key milestone this is the target that I mentioned earlier the other important aspect milestone events that have shaped the conservation Sabah particularly is the introduction of the sustainable forest management system in 1997 so this is sustainable forest management basically based on multiple use so it fits very well I think it was aligned very much the SDG goals as such as far as the 3 pillars of sustainable development is concerned and this 1997 is where the long term licensed soldiers especially on the 1.3 million production forest entered what happened in 1987 was we entered in the long term sustainable forest management for about 100 years that's a long period and entering with private sectors why we enter with private sectors then because implementing SFM is not cheap it involves cost so based on lessons learned, I think based on management plan that we have had is that I think we need 28 billion every year in order to implement to invest into this forest management so that is a very important event in the state of Sabah whereby initially we entered about 10 long term licensed soldiers but that grew to about 38 where we that has been improved to about 38 licenses of support in terms of license in terms of implementation and contrary to many beliefs we believe that the adoption of this SFM sustainable has indeed brought about a lot of positive changes and I think that one thing is that we are having FMU system forest management system where proper management plan is concerned so this is where all the sciences are so everything is built on science we are based on it is not just based on the timber mentality it is actually based on proper planning looking at and a long term license that is one of the positive changes multiple use because when we talk about forestry landscape it is not only for timber but it is also for for other purpose recreation etc etc and if you talk about reducing impact logging when we talk about production forestry we talk about certification the requirement of third party auditing it's a must and certification is something which is very crucial as far as forestry is concerned and as of today about 825,000 hectares only certified you can ask me question later why not all are certified today and of course we are dealing with forest that has been disturbed due to past practices we do have ugly side before we have the bad ugly side but now we are trying to make amends looking at good and what we are doing now for the last decade or maybe future we will be dealing with a lot of forest restoration looking at on how to improve the forest ecosystem and so forth and we did mention forest plantation why we do forest plantation is an important aspect i think we have already launched action plan also last year we need to establish 400,000 hectares of industry plantation in order to divert from forest to forest and to in order to divert for example the dependence on natural forest so any future production industry would will come from this 400,000 hectares and also today it's only about 230,000 hectares 230,000 hectares established and more to come so one important aspect in SFM is concept of community forestry community compartment so these are the aspect component in forest management which have not been in the in the previous practices so this is by default it is a requirement on any management of forest there must be community compartment identified so there will be social baseline survey identified, conducted identified where they are so there is a lot of sciences there is a lot of studies has been used as a basis to manage the forest in Sabah and beside SFM Hardo Bonio was introduced this is a very important initiative to Sabah as well in 2007 rightly said but Sabah only contributes about 4 million hectares that's only about 20% of the state the whole Hardo Bonio and it has been implemented since 2007 thanks to the ministry that has contributed the funding ever since but one of the important outcome from Sabah is that if you look at the past 2007 totally protected areas is only about 865,000 hectares and over the years because of Hardo Bonio because of the brand name itself it has increased to 1.9 million hectares so this is looking at addressing connectivity one putting in sustainable practices within that landscape and then this also looking at for example, promoting cooperation with member states or member countries so there is still a lot more to be done if you look at the dark green these are the dark green protected areas it is rather fragmented but better than before in 2007 so there is a lot of work we do not simply just share it this is actually based on sciences based on 30 years of royal society involvement in that area for example, based on it so there is a lot of input from high learning and so on and that contributes to it and I think this is a very important outcome and when Hardo Bonio was initiated implemented we only focus on the protected forests but now the third strategic plan of action is actually looking at areas outside we look beyond and I would just like to sum up for example, we look at beyond landscape so we are going for landscape approach and these are many other conservation initiatives so we try to link them up we have some of us very generous with NGOs we collaborate with as many partners I think it is very important that we work with as many partners in order to create success stories because with success stories I think it is very difficult for any politician if they to for example, disband whatever initiative or whatever I think Hardo Bonio has to stand so many political changes 2007 and so forth because of its success stories it is very important when we talk about stakeholder consultation so there is a lot more that I would like to say about what is our conservation next approach I think there is a lot hinges on moving out conservation next landscape approach and then dealing with the community that is a very important aspect and trying to link up forests to many forest-based economies there is a lot of sciences that need to be clarified I think this is very important they see that we don't know for example protecting forests that reduce revenue to the state but in fact it contributes a lot even to agriculture for example so that's why even I think Prof Maslin mention about the Jewish certificate sustainable palm oil so we are looking at other sectors agriculture and how can we contribute to what's that and also not only that but also to the built environment the highways and so forth and I think the conservation next is to move beyond our jazz forest but looking at this but more important is that I think the local communities I think it is very important that we need to adequate not only local but the public itself I think what have been mentioned by by our distinguished speakers I think it is very important that to everybody to save our forests not only the forests department or the government it's actually everybody's responsibility and even the community can play a huge role but then again I think it is very important that we unlock this potential and then make them realize only when they realize then we can conservation more effective so I think I will just stop there and there's a lot more that I would like to say but then again thank you for your attention and sorry for taking up a few more minutes sir banyak terima kasih kepada Datuk Fred Kugan thank you very much yang berbagi Datuk Fred Kugan chief conservator of Sabah about one month from today there will be an important meeting in Kota Kinabalu it's called the Heart of Bonyo International Conference August 23rd and 24th the title is Heart of Bonyo an ecosystem that provides if you google this and you try to register and you cannot enter, don't worry contact Datuk Fred Kugan for all the participants today he will give consideration today especially so Datuk Kugan also mention there are two senior professors who had come and shared about Sabah today one is Dr. Elia, stand up please Elia from University Malaysia Sabah she is the director of the Centre for Sustainable Society Engagement you see collaboration, engagement that is the kind of language that we need to do Prof. Jun, are you still here? Ya, eh, oh no she has gone Jun, stand up please Prof. Jun Naena Director of Institute of Bonyo Studies University College Sabah Foundation she prepared a wonderful 10 minute video about what her university had done but anyway I have to speak about Sabah 8 years I spent my time as an early career researcher in Sabah, wonderful place anyway we have to move on nearly sunset Dr. Wahyu Pratomo Dr. Wahyu Pratomo is the head executive director for the coordinator office of Kalimantan region based in Banjar Masin he is from the central bank Tunisia Thank you for coming over Dr. Wahyu Pratomo is having an advisory role to the government he is also responsible for guiding the economic transformation of Kalimantan into a greener region Good luck Dr but we are behind you his previous roles at the bank include as director and group head of institutional transformation they give you all all the difficult task where he drove strategic initiatives and director and group head of international policy where he shape international finance policies Dr. Pratomo's academic journey began at Erasmus University Rotterdam in 1994 you are seated next to the Dutch Professor so everybody is pay up like that just coincidence he then achieve an MA in international and development economics at Yale University in 1999 followed by master of science in economics from UNC at Chapel Hill North Carolina Chapel Hill 2005 he culminated his academic pursuit with a doctorate in economics from Universitas Indonesia 2013 his rich blend of practical expertise and academic rigor fuels his transformative economic leadership Dr. W. Pratomo silakan naik atas dan sampaikan please welcome him Dr. W. Pratomo Thank you Professor Maslin Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh very good afternoon Excellency Minister Chang Excellency Professors speakers and ladies and gentlemen I feel very honored to speak before this very educated audience when I got invitation from Professor Wu to speak in this workshop I actually don't realize that this forum is very educated and elite group so I hope that you can participate Professor Wu Today I will share with you our perspective on how to protect the Calimadan Forest from the economic policy perspective Minister, I'm a rookie also in this area I'm not the forest guy I'm trained economics so I will talk about this in the economic policy perspective Let me start with the story of Kayaulin Kayaulin is highly priced hardwood in Calimantan native to the forest of Southeast Asia particularly in Indonesia It is well known for its incredible strength and resistant to pest and water damage but it is not threatened by over exploitation lack of regeneration and difficulties in cultivation in my view the story of Kayaulin is representative of the story of Calimantan It is an island with a massive size strong rich with natural resources including rainforest but its future is under risk if we don't manage it resources sustainably and I must say that the current situation and condition of Calimantan we have a lot of challenges let me show you the structure of economy of Calimantan as a start despite the fact that the forest play a key role in Calimantan its economic value is often underestimated underestimated or even ignore traditional economic measurement such as the current GDP measurement typically focus on the direct forest resources extraction such as lodging which can be easily quantified and traded in the market for the more if we look at the structure of economy of Calimantan is largely dominated by coal mining and palm oil industries it has a consequences the economy of Calimantan is very vulnerable to community price fluctuation so if you see two graphs on the left side the GDP growth of Calimantan very much influence by the fluctuation of both coal and CPO price and if you look at the right side graphs after decades of subtraction we must say that the economy of Calimantan remain until now less inclusive represented by the poverty level and the generation indicators that is why we in Calimantan believe that we need a greener development framework that not only address the economic development but also includes environmental sustainability and social development in particular in Calimantan we advocate a green integrated economic approach it is a holistic strategy and to simultaneously tackle the complexity of environmental social and economic sustainability this framework this approach has to main pillars the first one is how to find the new source of growth of the economy of Calimantan we find that this new source of growth must be as attractive or even more attractive than the extractive activities that cause damage today this policy include the don't streaming policy policy on SME and green SME ecotourism and we believe also digital based economy on the second pillars we find that we have to design economic incentive to protect the Calimantan forest this incentive can ensure that it is in the interest of the individuals communities and companies to protect and sustainably manage forest rather than exploit them and this incentive may include indigenous people and the right economic incentive for the industry and also call for industrial responsibility in the context of the theme of the 2 day plenary about how to mobilize science we find that universities can contribute to the research and development of new technologies methodologies and system then can enable a green integrated economic process I mentioned before this university support may include research and development education and training policy advice innovation and entrepreneurship public awareness and advocacy as well as interdisciplinary collaboration ladies and gentlemen let's we go into first pillar in more details the first pillar encompass the economic transformation of new Calimantan as a matter of fact the economic transformation is pursued nationally by the current government we believe to become a developed country Indonesia has to undergo economic transformation to strengthen its economic structure moreover the economic transformation need to be done in Indonesia not only in Calimantan next the challenges when we have a framework how to implement the framework we in Calimantan today advocate the new framework to the various stakeholders in five provinces in Calimantan we find that to be effective to implement this framework we need to be innovative but also collaborate with different parties so we talk about this approach to local governments to banks to other authorities operating in Calimantan but also to universities in North Calimantan East Calimantan West Calimantan Central Calimantan and South Calimantan we find that the collaboration is unnecessary especially when we talk about today key message from this morning plenary the key issue is one of the key issue is to tell the story so the challenge is how to tell the story to transform economy of Calimantan to the new generation of people in Calimantan in this context I find that university will play a key role to disseminate the concept of the new framework the concept of sustainable development to the new generation especially student at the universities the next pillar relate to economic incentive to protect the forest we find that this must include how to incorporate indigenous people in forest protection in essence we partnering with them to leverage the unique knowledge and practice foster respect from their rights and ensure the sustainable management of forest second we have to find the right economic incentive for industry the right incentive for industry actually transform industry from being the part of the problem to becoming a part of the solution in forest conservation the third we call industrial responsibility meaning how to involve industry such as mining and manufacturing in forest protection that is a pragmatic approach that leverage the resources the technology and influence on the next slide I will show you some success story related to the second pillar first is a cutting mentaya project this is the world largest redd plus project it is run by rimba makmur utama company which hold concession for restoration and conservation of pit forest covering 30,000 hektar in central kalimantan it is in fact a carbon emission reduction program this program is capable of catalyzing 3 things first climate change mitigation the carbon credit that can be produced about 7 million tons per year making this project carbon credit project in the world the second it is addressing the eco-terrorism of biodiversity because the program is crucial for due to the presence of population of Borneo orangutan certain Borneo gibbons and also Borneo proboscis monkeys the program is of course contributing to the attainment of the HGC target in Indonesia the second success story is in East Kalimantan this is the first region in East Kalimantan to receive payment through the work bank forest carbon partnership facility or FCPF it involve 20 million ton carbon reduction and the amount of the fund can be reached as much as 100 million US dollars and we find that this model has the potential to be replicated in other part of Kalimantan the last one I will share you the success story of indigenous people in western Kalimantan Bandi Apel Janggut Janggut is born receive a government price for humanity recently Bandi Apel Janggut is an elder custom leader of the indigenous group of Daya Iban Sungai Uti Longhouse in the rainforest of western Kalimantan Bandi is known as the Sungai Uti Forest Guardian for his decades long defense of the environment from illegal lodging palm oil production and corporate interest he has led his community in fighting for recognition of their traditional land rights for over 40 years in 2020 Dari perlukan, Iban Community Legal dan owner seat 9500 taktas land He is the joint winner with Cecil Jebet of Cameroon and Leila Salgado Brasilo Ladies and gentlemen with this Apel Janggut story, I stop my presentation Thank you very much for your attention Dr. Wahyu Pratomo Terima kasih banyak untuk mengambil kejutan ketika SDSN mempunyai area Kalimantan untuk memberi pengalaman SDSN untuk menghargai Kalimantan dan juga untuk bekerja dengan anda Terima kasih 6 p.m. Terima kasih untuk pesan anda, Steve Dr. Steve Baraklav Dr. Steve Baraklav Excellency Dr. Steven Baraklav Tolong minta maaf currently serves as the senior official assisting Australian High Commission in Kuala Lumpur He has served in Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and trade for over 20 years His diplomatic postings have included Afghanistan Jakarta and Brussels In that order Afghanistan Dr. Baraklav was awarded PHD by the ANU Australian National University for research on responses to satellite television in Pakistan, Iran and Egypt and this is special He obtained postgraduate diploma in education of Queensland, 1992 and first class Honours in History University of Queensland awarded the Devahuti Prize by the Indian Government Congratulations Dr. Steven and now please welcome His Excellency Dr. Steven Baraklav Terima kasih Prof. Maslin and distinguished colleagues I'd like to also thank Sunway, SDSN and the Geoffrey Chair Foundation It's great to be here to speak at a university context so we can speak in more depth about issues that are really important I'd like to address two questions in my presentation The first one is fundamentally how we should understand the relationship between biodiversity and climate change The two issues have been brought up a lot today and blended and the second question I want to address is the respective roles of government and private sector and I want to particularly focus on that because I believe the private sector's role is often underestimated and I'll be doing that from an Australian perspective So let's go first to biodiversity It's been a good couple of years for biodiversity at least in terms of international commitments So in Glasgow 26, the Glasgow Alliance on Forests and Land Use was concluded, Malaysia and Australia both signed up to it and I was interested to read and picked my curiosity in looking at the lead up in leading up to this presentation that in the 10 years leading up to Glasgow Australia rear forested or increased its forest stock by 4.4 million hectares That's the equivalent of about one third of Peninsula Malaysia and for me that raised the questions how did we do that and where did the funding come from and I'll come back to that at the Egypt COP COP 2027 in 2022 there's another step forward with the Mangro Alliance for Climate Change I'm not going to repeat to this audience things you've heard about how important mangroves are both in storing carbon and in diversity but this group also made a commitment which was to increase mangrove area by 20% by 2030 so Gwen, for me that how are you going to do that and where are you going to get the funding from but anyway in terms of sustainability and biodiversity I'm honoured that we've heard so much already from distinguished colleagues about the situation in Sabah and in Kalimantan so I'm not going to dwell too much on that since we've heard already so much of rich input I will just mention one initiative that Australian Government is funding which is on working with Malaysian counterparts on how to handle marine plastics and how to reduce marine plastics as a policy area and that's being carried out by Australia's best university University of Queensland so I'd now like to just pivot and look at this relationship then between biodiversity and climate change Biodiversity is complementary to climate change in the sense that where you preserve ecosystems that will help preserve or reduce or prevent carbon emissions it's complementary but if you look at it from the other way climate change or addressing climate change is essential to protecting biodiversity because if we fail to turn back climate change then our efforts to preserve this or that ecosystem are ultimately going to be either severely limited or completely failing climate change is an unfolding and worsening calamity for the human race and the planet we live in and it will not be dealt with unless we deal with carbon emissions in particular human production of carbon emissions if we're talking about carbon emissions and reducing them to zero then we also need to be talking about the replacement the green energy economy and the green energy value change and I'd like to focus on that before we go into that normally at this point you'd expect someone to talk about government commitments first, this summit this announcement, this government plan I'm actually going to speak about the private sector first because I think we need to get into the private sector view of this to tackle it better so let's look at those green energy value change from a private sector perspective but before we do that imagine we suddenly were brought back in time 100 years and we asked ourselves the question back in 1923 or what energy is going to be crucial for the next 100 years for the human race or the answer would be oil it's really impossible to understand the 20th century either economically or politically without oil and Malaysia knows this well but if we're here today in 1923 ask ourselves that question which energy sector is going to be the most critical in the next 100 years the answer is the green energy sector so we need to understand its components we need to understand how it works how it's shaping up who are the actors who's on the dance floor who's holding back I can't give you a comprehensive picture talk about energy the green energy transition without talking about the mineral components that are essential for it this means rare earth it means lithium I love talking about lithium 43% of the lithium that is currently extracted today is from Australia almost all of that we shipped to China to be processed because China is the world's largest processor of lithium Australia has the second largest lithium, copper and cobalt reserves in the world although lithium I must say estimates vary because some would put Bolivia right up there and it also means for all those countries that's going to be massive Australia does have the largest nickel and zinc reserves in the world Australia in a couple of years ago reached 29% objective of its renewable energy so total energy usage in Australia 29% of it is from renewables and we've set ourselves a target in 2030 of reaching 82% how are we going to do that it's a bit like those other questions and like those other questions I'm going to come back to it Australia's not just endowed with these vital minerals rare earths and energies that are absolutely essential for the green energy transition we also have lots of space and that positions us very well for green hydrogen particularly the provision of massive scale solar energy which can create green hydrogen at scale and at a reasonable price so people might have noticed a couple of weeks ago the president of Indonesia visiting Australia and the main discussion was about guess what minerals that Indonesia would like to have to help develop its ambitions for electronic vehicles and president Widota was the only one obviously we have already a strong relationship with Chinese companies but also other countries that have ambitions for electric vehicles but I'd like to make one point here it isn't the Australian government that sells any of this it's Australian companies this is actually a business decision to sell to another business so we need to support businesses and create a favorable environment in this sector it's not surprising then that Australia also attracts investment from countries that want to get into this growing renewable energy sector and also pick up knowledge so I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you the green energy wing of Petronas, GenTari for its $1 billion investment in purchasing Weasol an Australian solar energy and energy storage company which operates on the east coast of Australia by being there it profits economically but also gains the knowledge of this fast moving regulatory environment and the technology that's being used and can bring it back here to Malaysia China is the world's largest processor of lithium and rare earth in fact all the centres of excellence of rare earth are in China except one that one is correct is in Malaysia and it's been established courtesy of the cooperation between Malaysia and the Australian company Linus Linus has been also a long standing partner for Malaysia it's invested $1 billion in Malaysia since it was invited to come here and there is potential more for more if the conditions are right the company employs around 1,000 people 99% of them are Malaysians it's been proven safe by four scientific reviews including one carried out by the international atomic energy agency I could go on and on and the value change the products, the industries that are going to make this work but I hope I've given you enough sense that it is moving it's moving fast and all the big economies are onto it I'll now talk about government second and deliberately so well both Australia and Malaysia signed up to 2050 carbon neutrality at Paris I'm pleased to say that through our comprehensive strategic partnership there are fundamental administrative steps you need to reach that target so we are helping Malaysia establish a national greenhouse gas inventory so that Malaysia can measure in an accurate way its greenhouse emissions why is this so important yes for setting policy but more importantly it's a fundamental building block if you are to attract carbon credits investment to bring in carbon offsets I'd like to say a couple more things about carbon offsets while I'm here Australia's market for carbon offsets that is Australia's business's desire to invest in carbon projects has massively increased in the last five years more than half of the money that is in the Australian Stock Exchange is with companies that are looking to invest in carbon offsets why we could say that the companies are becoming nicer I'd like to say so but also they're driven by their shareholders they're driven by the consumers and they're driven by the momentum of the international community where it makes sense to move into this space first second thing I'd like to say about carbon credits is that in the Australian system you don't get them just for having an asset but you don't get them if you take an action that reduces carbon credits that reduces carbon such as building green energy so that's the answer to my previous questions how did Australia plant 4.4 million hectares of forest in 10 years how is it possible the world can get 10% more 20% more mangrove forest by 2030 how is that possible that Australia can expect to get 82% of our energy to renewables by 2030 because we have got our private sector lined up with government regulation also for carbon credits and we are sharing that with Malaysia there's a number of projects I could share in particular I won't because people are waving the sign at me and it is the end of the day but I just would mention one and that is that we're funding a feasibility study in Johor for a bunkering hub for zero emissions fuels such as methanol and hydrogen on that last practical note and with the red sign flashing I'll say thank you for your attention bye that's what Australia used to say thank you very much Dr. Steve Baraklaw ladies and gentlemen I know that there are some burning questions you'd like to ask the panellists and it's late it's been a long day if you have any questions please do email to the circuit area we shall direct them to the speakers and I'm sure the speakers will be more than happy to respond to your questions and we pray that all the power points presentations could be shared with the public we're not sure yet but we'll check with the speaker another reason why we should stop early is because tomorrow there's another session tomorrow we begin at nine o'clock in the morning with two parallel session on stewardship of Southeast Asia soil and geostrategic trends for the future of ASEAN let's put our hands together for all the brilliant speakers thank you


Yeah, we're playing a little tag today. This is ongoing every day right here. The white pony. We're shedding the boots off now. Now we've got summer mountain up, going to go play tag and get all moose and Sydney ponies off. She's got a pretty good lead on her right now. Cut her off right there. She's got her now. Oh, she took the fake. Oh, she's got you now. Oh, she had her right there. Let a little bit of feel out right there.


Okay, so good morning everybody. Good morning. Good morning to all the online students as well as to those who've joined us on the e-learning portal. I hope you're following through and able to, you know, just continue on with what we're doing and able to follow the flow with which we're taking these chapters and these lessons. So let's just start with the word of prayer and we'll dive right in. Heavenly Father, we thank you God for this new day. Thank you, Lord, that you have connected each one of us from different places to learn more about your institution. God, even as we delve into bits and pieces of marriage, Father, we pray that your wisdom would be supreme. Lord, your understanding, Lord, would be great over our lives. Lord, for those of us who are in the institution of marriage, may we conduct ourselves, Lord, in a way that is pleasing to you. Lord, that will give you glory. A marriage is Lord that are testaments to you. And Father, we pray for young people who are listening in. God, who desire Lord to be married. Father, I pray that you will build these truths into their hearts and prepare their hearts, God, for what you have instituted. I pray with us, I pray for all those who are here, all those who are yet to come. God, thank you that your grace is over each one of us. We ask this in your precious name. Amen. Okay. All right. So over the last couple of weeks, we have been looking at different elements of marriage. We started off with looking at communication. Then we did conflict resolution. The last week we did becoming a good team. We're still on that same topic of different elements in marriage. And today we're going to cover two aspects of it. One is very practical in itself of managing a home. And the second one is about sex and sexuality, another important aspect of marriage. So if you would have looked through the books, I'm not going through a chronological order, but you can be sure everything will be covered by the end of this course. So I've just gone a little bit here and there, taken a lot more of the heavy chapters earlier, maybe the lighter ones later depending on the topic in itself. Okay. So if you have a book with you, we're on page 83. And if you have a soft copy with you, we are on page 81. Yeah. Page 89. Page 80. Okay. So we're on page 80. So if you'd like to follow through, please do so. Okay. So in this first hour, we're just going to be looking and discussing about simple tips on how family can manage their home. Simple practical tips that's needed for our everyday life. And we have, we've read this earlier in Proverbs 24, 3 and 4 that a house, a home is built on the foundation of wisdom and understanding. Right. So in all that we do, even managing a home, how we manage it, it takes understanding, it takes wisdom to do so. Okay. And this, a lot of these tips may be things that you've probably learned from your own homes. And these are things that can help you. Nevertheless, whenever you see maybe some aspects of the way that you manage your home needs a change, it's always good to rework something so that there is maximum efficacy and maximum utility of your time and your resources and whatever that that's required. Okay. So like we like it, like the chapter says, it may be just knowledge, maybe something that's common sense to most of us. But nevertheless, it's important to address these areas because there are times that even these issues could cause conflicts in couples. Okay. So the more the better way of doing it is always the best. Right. And it gives you, it actually helps you to succeed much better in your relationship. So we will look at a few of this, it may not or may not be everything per se, but then maybe the most important aspects of how do you manage home. So the first important part of managing home is knowing where to stay. Okay. Learning where to stay. So it's definitely necessary and important for a couple who are considering marriage to really discuss about where they are going to make their home. Okay. And it's something that should be discussed prior to marriage and maybe at the preparation or premarital preparation. I know sometimes in cultures, depending on the culture that we all come from, there is a certain tradition that one may follow, which is probably staying in the husband's home. And I know that there are different cultures that are matriarchal and so then they stay in the wives' home. Okay. I think among the northeastern states, it's very matriarchal. So you have the groom actually going and staying in the bride's home. So nevertheless, I mean, I think there are a lot of cultures that may have it very differently. But a recommendation is that it's always good for a young married couple to live by themselves, which means to separate from their immediate family or their place of stay, so that there is greater freedom to really focus on their marriage relationship. And also in a way to learn how to work together, adjust together, do things together, divide probably common work that needs to be done at home. So it's a recommendation that it's good for couples to live by themselves away from their parents so that they learn on how to manage marriage and how to manage the family. And this is definitely something which is encouraged in the early years of marriage when there's a lot more focus that you can keep on each other rather than later when there are much more responsibilities that come your way. Nevertheless, there can be times and there could be situations or maybe decisions that a couple could make or plan to live in either side of the family, either the husbands or the wives. But this should come with a mutual understanding and an agreement to do so because it shouldn't come in as a surprise or it shouldn't be something that's not discussed because then it can lead to a lot of conflict later. There should be an agreement, I think especially if there is an understanding that the couple is going to live with either side of the parents. There should be an agreement that the interference, the way that we had spoken about the inner sanctum, that there shouldn't be an interference in that relationship. And because a lot of problems can occur simply because parents are involved and interfere in a couple's life by making their decisions or by controlling what they do, how they do things or even interfering in certain patterns right of the new member that comes in or even interfering later at the time the way children are bought up. So there should be an agreement that or there should be an expectation of the other members not interfering in this husband wife relationship. So it is like we said there could be different reasons why a newly married couple may need to stay with one of the parents home. This could be because of maybe financial constraints or probably practical issues or maybe there is a relocation. However, the recommendation is to keep these times short and for the newly married couple to set up their own space, their own place so that they can focus on their marriage and building their lives together. So that's the first one to be able to stay independently. The second one is how do you manage schedules, daily and weekly schedules. So at this point of time, in the current time that we are living in, both the husband and the wife may be working people. So what happens is there can be differences in the way that each of them have their work schedules. So for example, if the husband is working a night job, the wife is working a day job, then the schedules kind of are not matching. And so what happens that is over time that they get to be a disconnect because there's so little time they have together and that could definitely impact the marriage. So it's important to address these situations and look at why priority needs to be given to the marriage and family. Just especially after a couple is married. Yes, career and opportunities and growth in maybe personal career is good, is important. Nevertheless, the priority of a marriage and family, you're living together in your initial years just yourself happens only once. So it is important to schedule that. So if there are challenges like this, it needs to be planned. You need to plan ahead to work those schedules. And it's also with wisdom we do say that if it is viable, if it is financially possible, it would be good to make any changes in the way that the work timings or work investment that happens. So making those changes is also important. So it could be like a change of a job or reducing hours or maybe probably taking a break also can be recommended till a time the focus is on the marriage and that priority is made. The next thing are certain household chores and these household chores are many. Nevertheless, there are a couple of ones that are written in the book of cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, paying bills and I'm sure there is a whole lot more. Nevertheless, it is important for both the husband and the wife to share the responsibility of managing the home. Because managing a home is not a one time job. It's something that needs to be done on a regular consistent daily basis. Some tasks are done daily. Some tasks are done maybe weekly. Nevertheless, there is a routine that needs to take place. So it's always helpful that the tasks for the home are shared between the husband and wife and wherever it is not possible getting the support of outside help. So it can be unfair, especially when both the husband and the wife are working for one of the members or for the wife to be carrying the entire load of the household tasks herself. So it's important to, you know, pitch in, work alongside with the responsibilities, these responsibilities because as time goes by, when the responsibilities become more, when the children come into the picture, when there is aged parents that one needs to look after or when there is other things like for the career or maybe ministry. It puts in a lot of strain on that one person. So all of this is one part of working together as a team where each one is doing their part to help each other and stepping in when there is a need for the other to come in. The next that we look at is how we engage with technology, the use of technology. And now with our current, the way that we currently see and process things, everything is through something with technology, right? And that's become so much a part of our lives, even connecting with others, doing our work, even administration, anything that you see would probably need some form of technology or some form of device that you use. So it's, yes, in a way it's a blessing, it's important to work through that. However, it's important to know and understand the balance of its use because most of the time they connected on maybe a phone or a device for our work, we feel a sense of pressure to keep being connected on it with matter of work, right? And so that in itself takes away time from the home or there could be recreational activities like the television or any kind of social media that could again take up the free time. Often that's looked at as leisure, right, or a time of entertainment or a time of switching off. So it is important to have disciplines across this on the way that we use our phone, the television, maybe connecting with others through messaging, through emails, through calls. All of this needs to have some boundary. So it's good that every member of the family, not just the children, keep their gadgets or distractions away at certain points, at certain times of the day, like maybe a meal time, or when everyone's connecting together or maybe on a drive, or when everyone's sitting together probably at prayer. So it's important to schedule to important to limit and place some of those boundaries so that it doesn't seep in to the family time. Okay, there could be certain situations where there are emergencies and that of course can be attended. But what we're looking at is as a general practice to keep certain boundaries in the way technology and gadgets all are used. Are we all here? Are we all in? Okay, all right. Okay, thank you. Yes. The next part of it is what we look at is what is important for families to do together is to have times together of recreation, okay, or times of a vacation. Now, each family may have different ways of doing this, and it could be, you know, some families do it probably much more frequently, but then it's just probably going out, or maybe it's shopping together, or it's just doing a picnic together, or going for a movie, or attending a sport, or attending a literary activity. It can be anything, some kind of a recreation time will be helpful to connect and also because it builds in the interest of others, right? So maybe it's one week or one month, it's following the interest of one of the members and then the next week it's someone else's. So it is your sharing with each other's interest and each other's company. And as you're doing this, there is relaxation, there is a recreation. So it's good to identify what you can do together or what are the activities that you can do with each other. So this is something that again has to be done intentionally, planning, knowing the place you're going to go to, what is the budget that you're using for, and nevertheless, you know, you attempt to keep it going either for some families. Like I said, it may be regular, it may be one every month, it's just probably a day off, or it may be once or twice a year with an extended time. Whatever it is, however you're able to manage it, that should be good. The next one we're going to look at is how do we deal with money and budgeting or basically understanding finances in family? How do we work through finances? We know that often money becomes a problem generally in most marriages. That is one of the areas of significant conflict because we all have a different view or a different understanding of how money should be saved, money should be used, money should be invested. And this also speaks probably of the kind of values or the ideas we have about money. And sometimes it is how we were raised, what our lifestyles were, what we have been used to, what we've seen in our own family, what have been the experiences as a result of money matters in our own homes. So first and foremost it's important to understand each other in this area and come to some place of an agreement. So the first and foremost understanding is what does money mean to people? What does money represent to each person? So for some it could be like a sense of security, for some it could be a sense of independence, for some it could be just a means, for others it could be something that you get so that you can bless others with. So there could be many other things or on the other side of it for some it could be a sense of fearlessness, the fact that okay I have money and that in itself keeps me safe. So there may be different things of the way that we see money and it's important to identify those values. So in the book you have a small table that helps you understand what your values are about money and your assets and your possessions. It's a good thing to actually go through this and understand where you are when it comes to material possessions and money because it really helps to know yourself as well as know what your partner's understanding of money is. So it's just a reflection about what money really means to you, what does it represent to you. When we're looking at financial finance and financial planning, one of the first things that we like to highlight as believers is giving to God's kingdom, agreeing to type in giving to God's kingdom. As we read in Proverbs 3 9 to 10, it says, honour the Lord with your possessions and with the first fruits of all your increase. So we are agreeing to give to God, whatever he has blessed us with, we are giving to God. There is also the verse in Malachi chapter 3 verses 8 to 10. So it says, will a man rob God yet you have robbed me but you say in what way have you robbed me, robbed in tithes and offerings. So it is to being agreeable to give together to the Lord or his work and that's something that you can come in agreement to. It's important also to learn how to live with money, to learn how to handle your finances and also to learn to live with contentment with what you have without a sense of greed or a sense of comparison. Or even the sense of a feeling that you should be better off than others. So it's important to live with simplicity and also to be generous and also serve God's purposes with money. Now as part of money, apart from tithing, one of the key important things that a couple needs to formulate is to be able to develop a budget. Deciding together what are the expenses that could come for the family. It's a good practice to do because it helps both the couple, both the husband and the wife to really formulate what means, within what means they should be living. And it's important to do that because this is what we call as wisdom. To come together to understand what is the income and what is the expenses so that you're living through each month well rather than falling short or being in absolute debt or even the other way, living very miserly and stringently. So much so that you don't even have three meals a day. So it's important to develop and come together to form that budget. And this happens only if both the husband and wife are open about their earnings are able to share information about their income and develop a plan. So before we just and we'll be looking at some of this in the next part of it in saving and investing. When you're developing a budget, it's good to have a mental breakup of a percentage. So if you work it backwards, we're saying that when you're tithing, you're tithing a minimum of 10%. Now it can even go more than that depending on how much you're able to give. So let's say 10 to 20%. So when that gets cut off, you have maybe a 90% or an 80%. Out of that, there is maybe a 20% that you are investing. 20% you're saving and the rest 50% is expenses. Now these percentages can change. The 50, 20, 20 can change. I was just giving you the least, the most minimum basic one that is useful and that's wise to do. 50% of expenses, 20% of saving, 20% of investing and 10% of type. So when you're actually able to understand this, it really helps in allocating maybe for something in the future. Like when you're saving at 20%, you're probably saving maybe for a set that you want to gather. Maybe it's a house or a land. I'm sorry, when you're investing, you're moving into something like that probably at a later point. Or you could be saving for that or saving for buying a car or buying a house or something that you may need to make life a bit more comfortable. All of this actually helps and it's a way of planning in able to budget. With this, alongside with this, it's also important for the couple to come to certain goals, certain financial goals. Agreeing on some financial goals, maybe certain short term goals about what you would like to see. What do you have? What are the goals that's there? So as we were saying, there may be some smaller goals that you may have probably it's moving into another house or buying a vehicle. Or it can be a long term financial goal, which is building a greater set on to something or getting into a business or any of that. But it's important to discuss this and come to a plan that two people can work together because we need to use money wisely, especially if you are looking at developing or having some big goals in mind. It is important to use that money carefully. As part of financial management, like I said, is also saving and investing. Now, they are saving and investing is a wise thing to do and it's good planning. What is saving and investing doing is it's actually making money for you and it is important to save systematically. So there are very many ways that you can invest money and allow it to grow. And the book actually talks about many different systems or plans that are there that you can use. And so if you do find yourself lacking on understanding this, it's also good to consult a good financial advisor who can help you with this. I'm just going to stop here for a couple of minutes. Is there any question? Any question that anyone has still where we covered right now? No one? No question? So we'll go to the last two, which is the relationship with the extended family. It may be parents, it may be in-laws, it may be the extended family. So we had made an emphasis and if you look through that entire space, there are many verses that talks about how you preserve and protect your one, your marriage, and also in the same time the way that you honour your parents and how you treat them. So there is a balance in all of this. Now as we did emphasise that there is the husband and wife living independently without the interference of the parents or the family members. Now this does not mean that you disconnect or keep them away from you. As you've read in scripture and there are many verses over here, it talks of Proverbs 18-19, just quickly read them. Help your relatives and they will protect you like a strong city wall, but if you quarrel with them, they will close their doors to you.  Proverbs 20-20, whoever curses his father or his mother, his lamp will be put out in deep darkness. Ephesians 2 and 3, honour your father and mother, it's the first commandment and so it will go well with you and you will have a long life. So if you look at scripture, it really talks of how you need to hold parents in honour, hold them in respect and honour and bless them. So it is important to maintain cordial loving relationships with your parents and your in-laws and continue to just bless them and have good relationships with them. Maintain that healthy relationship with them and it is important also to be able to show your love to them. So we're not advocating that you disconnect or you distance, maintain good cordial loving relationships. However, being careful of not allowing them to influence your marriage or impact or interfere with your marriage. Sometimes there can be younger couples who may need financial assistance from their parents and they need help. So this is something that you do with mutual understanding. You need to come in agreement to do this. Again, it's also not to treat one set of parents partially, it is to treat both of them equally and with love. The last one here is being able to care for the elderly or the widowed or often in your family. So there can be times because of the challenges that life brings that may be a need or as parents become older, there may be a need for the young couple or a couple to take care of elderly family members. It's not something, scripture talks about it, it says in Proverbs, James 127, it says, what God the Father considers to be pure and genuine religion is this, to take care of orphans and widows and their suffering and to keep oneself from being corrupted by the world. So it is our responsibility to take care of their needs. So this is where agreement needs to take place as a husband and wife coming together in agreement to address the needs of the extended family or the elderly family and to be able to do this with support and your complete understanding and wholeheartedness as you are taking care of the family. So doing it out of your reverence and your love for God so that they're all supported. So there are some of these areas that we've spoken about, generally those that needs to be managed at every home. Are there any reflections or any thoughts, any questions? You don't have to have any questions, you could also have some reflections. So if there's someone who likes to unmute and speak, that would be good, that would be helpful. No one has any thoughts, any questions? You know actually this is, you would find that a lot of marriages, they have conflicts because of some of these areas. We may think it is a simple but these could be the sources of the conflict like money. Money becomes a huge issue or the use of technology where both people are really busy at work or busy at entertainment. So that could be it or even this inequality about how you take care of the home, there's a whole lot of burden on one person. So all of this actually causes a lot of conflict and strife. So there should be, I believe that there should be a lot more discussion on this. Okay, I think Rin has spotted a message about how to treat our family members when married is something new that I learned. Okay, all right, okay, thank you, thanks Rin. Yeah, I think it's, maybe I'd like to probably put in a thought over here or maybe an observation of what are some of the things that I've come across. You know, at times when I help marriages is the ability of, this could be generally the husband, but this is not always true. I have seen even wives not being able to cut off emotional connection with the parents. And so for every small thing, there is a huge dependence that, for example, that cooking doesn't happen in the home. Food is always bought from home's house, right?  They don't learn it because there's always parents bringing things to comfort the children. But in actuality, when a young husband and a young wife are learning to do things on their own, there's a lot of things that are, a lot of learning, a lot of dynamics that's building up behind. It's not just about bringing food on the table, but there is coming to a place of agreement. There is being patient with one another. There is supporting one another. There is encouraging one another after something is made. There is cleaning up together. All of this adds in value and skill, right? So often I think parents themselves make the mistake of hoping to make things very comfortable for a young bride and groom. So much so that, you know, everything, when a home is set up and the fridge is there, the things in the kitchen is there, the car is there, everything, they just have to start living. That in itself, and I remember, I think, you know, my parents telling me when they were married, they had nothing. They had to really build on everything right from scratch because one is they were not living with my father's parents. They had to move away from their state and move to another state because of job issues. But that's when a lot about life and each other gets learned. And that's really, really significant, you know. So if you can weather through, in family therapy, we say if a couple can weather through the first year of marriage, the significant changes happen in the first year and then it happens in the next 10 years, so that if that first year is something that a couple can actually weather through, you know, you see that there's a lot more of success. The success rate is a lot more in marriages. Okay? Yeah. All right, yeah, I just wanted to share that. Anybody else? Very quiet class today. Yeah, something that I would also like to share for my parents. The struggle was, you know, like my dad had to get all his sisters married.  It was a little bit difficult because the entire financial strain was on my father because he had gone to Saudi. So they, my grandparents were looking out for my father to stand and take care of everything. So as I was listening to this also, you know, like we learned a lot from our parents, things, mistakes and things like how we should not do certain things. So it's like, always I felt that, you know, we keep on learning in a marriage. It's new every, and each marriage is so unique. And as you mentioned very rightly that small financial things can become big conflicts. It might be a small thing of very, it is not even, maybe we won't even use that thing afterwards, but it might be a small thing, but that just to buy that, you know, like buying a pet or, you know, these can become major conflicts and which is actually unnecessary. And I think we should all, I felt that as I was listening today, like these are things that we should submit to the Lord every day and ask his guidance and put things, the financial things, give it to his hand first so that everything else will fall in place. But God is the one who teaches us, right? So each time we learn something and I'm so thankful that even now I'm, God is teaching me and I'm grateful for all that I'm learning. Thank you. Thank you, Jack. Thank you so much. That is, yeah, I think we're, I'm sure a lot of us have, maybe especially those of us who are married or we've seen our parents. We have a lot of stories in this, in this part. I think one more thing that maybe I'd like to share is coming from, you know, a southern state in India, Kerala. One of the things that I've seen across a lot of homes in Kerala is the way that the woman is the one who actually bears the entire brunt of the home. And it can, it actually can be extremely taxing. In fact, a lot of times men marry just so that they have, they have another helper at home for the mother, right? Because in some of the homes, I'm talking about traditional homes in Kerala, maybe it's changing right now. Right now I think the issue is that all the children have left and they go abroad and the elderly parents are stuck back in Kerala. So that's the new problem that's coming. But I'm talking about maybe a couple of decades earlier, is that marriage happens because they need a woman, an extra hand of help in the house to take care of things. And so the burden just, you know, that culture just keeps passing on where the manager goes out for work and there's no other contribution that he brings into the home and it's the woman who slogs and everything. And so you build another generation thinking that it's a normal practice. It's okay to do that, you know. And we still see that being infiltrated within our community. I know I have some people from Kerala here. I don't know if you'll agree with my observation or you may have a different observation. Anybody? Okay. All right. We'll close our, so we've just completed the managing home. What we can do with the next hour, we will be looking at sex and sexuality. So let's take a break. We will come back at 11 o'clock after our break.