If no questions, then it means that you didn't hear me, okay? so Now this thing doesn't work Right, this thing doesn't work. So I will have to use something else Okay, my name is Anton and I'm big fan of open source and big fan of oh, yeah You see we fixed printers with big sliders. What else? Excellent So still my name is I'm Anton Bobenka and I'm not from warm place as previous speaker So I get used to snow I live in Norway for the last 13 years and less than that I try to stay active with open source and for the last three years I'm actively contributing and having fun with Terraform AWS organizing different events like devils days in Oslo different user groups travel around and try to Make people aware about this acknowledges and how to use them properly so Some of you probably familiar with Terraform. So I just like to hear Faces and hands who know what is Terraform and who use it daily Right. Okay. Good. So it's about half of people and I Think some of you actually use code which I wrote or which I Contribute to or which I maintain for the last three years Terraform AWS module is one of the most popular one which was downloaded two millions of times and the last year and a few other projects related to Terraform I actively Stay in the community and listening in what kind of questions people constantly asking like how to structure my projects How to solve this thing how to do that better and so on so three months ago, I started writing Terraform best practices and It has not been finished yet because things are constantly constantly changing and I have to earn money and I have to Find some customers. I'm not employed by Hashi corp as you may think but Nevertheless, I write a lot about different things So if you have questions after this talk or about Terraform feel free to find me by my nickname This nickname is everywhere and if you are thinking what is this module CF? Yes, I have logo for this as well and I have stickers so more about this later Terraform AWS module is the project to which is collection of reusable components for traditional things like VPC security groups RDS and many many more it started More than a year ago, but a year ago as well as Release of Terraform registry This became verified and now they are used by lots of lots of different people. So Why Terraform right this talk is about Terraform and something about it. So Terraform was created in about 2014 And the only purpose of it was to be able to write plan and manage infrastructure as code This talk is Maybe a little bit more advanced and I assume that you know a lot of these things already So I will not go in details and I expect you to actually read the commendation in addition to this talk Documentation is excellent. So Nevertheless It works almost So this is how main TF file looks in Terraform you describe some variables you describe some resources you have some some dependencies between different resources and So you define some Information about AWS region where infrastructure is going to be created. You define what kind of resources like a bucket Run some comments Yeah No, but that's that's how it is Unfortunately, the projector is not so great, but yeah, I can read what is on the slide so you're uncommon Terraform in it to download dependencies and After that you're uncommon to To create these resources like Terraform apply and it will show you what exactly is going to be created and You confirm it and then you have these resources created Right. So now slide on white background illustrate that different cloud providers over time come up with different Solutions to Terraform like before Terraform for example, AWS cloud formation was created by AWS With similar purpose Google Cloud has come up with its own solution to deploy resources and Azure eventually came up with something similar But you may think why Terraform existed in first place Right. The main reason why Terraform exist is that there are much more than This there are more than 100 different Providers which allows to configure different resources on different systems And this is one of the biggest sales points why people should use Terraform sources Whether I have to stick with cloud formation if I'm not going to leave AWS, no, you should not use cloud formation So Terraform is universal tool for everything where we have an API an API believe it or not Exists even for Dropbox files even Gira issue can be created with Terraform There are many different use cases when you want to be able to configure your resources like data dog metrics or Control permissions to different objects. So everything what is available through API can be controlled So now let's begin with More or less real projects where at the beginning everything was fine everything fit into single main TF file And it was just fine, right? So we have I cannot rely on this That's a good idea So many geeks in the room we fixed Excellent, but we have not fixed the clicker yet. So I will stay here. No problem So on this slide we see how Terraform configuration looks when we just need to create basic virtual private clouds within AWS So it's simple nothing special But eventually your project will grow and you add different things into it And you may think what exactly you're going to add and you are going to add resources regions providers Whatever else you can figure out you integrate everything with everything. So it should remind you That you will continue editing main TF file and now you just add the internet gateway, right? Because you want to access internet good idea then a little bit later you figure out that you need some subnet and Then you probably need something else So you will add a lot of different Things and by the time when you figure out that you actually need to access Internet from private subnet you need to configure routes and routing table and all of this together Your network configuration in Terraform will end up in about 300 lines at least it can be much more So you may think what exactly is going on with main TF of course It's growing and it's growing Approximately 10 20 kilobytes for just networking stack with more than 300 lines of code Dependences eventually will get worse and worse. That's Natural solution why we're here is a terraform come up with terraform module. So terraform modules is just a I don't know So yeah, actually speaking about modules magic modules is a reserved name by Google You can go to it so Okay Right so modules. It's really important to understand from Terraform documentation are just self-contained packages of Terraform configurations That are managed as a group. That's the only thing which you have to understand about modules from Terraform documentation There are several types of modules like the first one which is the easiest one more Very reusable one because it's possible to open source and it's hard to invent something there It is resource module where just the resources can be created in different configuration nothing else There as in this example there is a way of using security group module of Which is hosted on Terraform registry and we specify that we need to use version to zero zero and we provide bunch of Arguments to this module. So that's all what we have We We have information Yeah, you may think what exactly the purpose of resource module and the main answer is it Such resource modules can be versioned while individual resource block cannot be versioned But if this is not convincing then think about security group module and this is a real code within the security group module It is creating it is creation of easy to Security group module in different different configuration Believe me, you don't want to write this code for your project because I hope this is not your business I mean, you probably don't earn on creation code in Terraform and selling So the code itself is about 600 lines and it can be very powerful way of abstraction next slide second type of module is infrastructure module, which is just a High high level because it consists of resource modules and it often enforce something What is related for the company like tagging naming and so on and that's exactly where where it makes sense to reuse Existing tools like json that or cookie cutter or different preprocessor make file whatever else to fulfill missing beats of Terraform 011 And infrastructure module in vacation looks pretty similar. So we have module hosted on the registry and we specify a bunch of different values which we pass as arguments to the module Inside of this module. We are just in walking resource module for VPC application law balancer and many other things So just to summarize There are two types of module resource and infrastructure and resource is very reusable one So let's look into how to write modules So the first tip which I'd like to give is to not write resource module, but just check what is existing there There are more than 600 modules published in the registry Many of them are very good quality. So don't be creative unless you really need people So if you actually decide to write some modules then try to Hide all this complexity as I showed for security group somewhere inside of this module as in this example People who are using the module they don't really know difference between Implementation of time zone in a massive scale versus my seat So they're just calling this module and then inside of the module. We are using we are creating resource based on Certain criteria like in this case if name was a skill server then create MS SQL Otherwise create my sequel and use time zone only for MS SQL As an output of the module we are outputting The only result which is available there So user doesn't have to know that we are actually creating one type of database or another Different implementation details are totally hidden second thing is size of the infrastructure modules if you think that It's okay to just host all of your infrastructure modules in the repository and just use part of it It's often gonna to be cloned every time when you are invoking all of this So your module will be just several kilobytes of code while the whole The whole repository is several megabytes then you will have to clone every time the whole repository Which is just an efficient especially if you're making lots of small resources like I am MBT is your solution to split one One big gift repository into several and you can do this Few things which I'd like to point which you have to avoid so first of all is never use providers in modules and The only exception is that you may use logical providers like template random local HTTP external But not in cloud providers or any other state providers You may think why it's actually bad because I did this and it works Yes, exactly. It works for you, but it will not work for Peter or vice because the way how the terraform is invoking providers configuration is Not possible to override So if you put this code inside your module and you want and you ask why people are not using my module That's because of this Partially another thing is that provisioner itself pretty pretty bad idea to use in all resources I know that a lot of people are using them, but I just try to show why this is good Even if you are thinking that What what can go wrong here? Or I'm just going to use it in EC2 resources because it makes sense like my instance is greater than I'm calling Ansible playbook which will just connect to the safe address. Yes, it's probably fine for some time and What can possibly go wrong? So the good solution here is that if you can use Things like user data on AWS inferences then use that one if you can use Autoscaling group then use that one as well The benefit here is that if you start using Provisioners you will have very hard time migrated into other project or into other Yeah, into just other Project or if you want to distribute it somehow So the way when you actually you say that no, I absolutely must use my local dependencies and I want to use it Use my local machine when something is created then use no resource for that No resource doesn't create any physical resources. So that's exactly the place where such things can be implemented and And few trades about to do terraform I was working with terraform modules for pretty long time and then I discovered that it actually makes sense to look around and think what are Common mistakes which people are making and why they're actually mistakes and I ordered this in the order of Importance the first the most important thing in terraform model is the commutation as an example and The least important thing is actually test If you disagree with me, you're welcome to be or F which will be tomorrow slide later Fissure rich is important feature off of good terraform module because it means that I Can use your module and use it for my subset of things and someone else can use and everything should be fine so that's really one of the One of the core feature because some people think that it works for me. I don't care. I wouldn't improve it That's fine But if you want it to be actually good and reusable then it has to cover as much as possible different situations and never hard-code values like Some some things which are related to just your company or your project things like environment name or company name Or even tax everything should should should be customized or at least all the reason and Make sure that your code is actually readable even by you after a couple months It's good suggestion because believe me, you will you will be using the plane to figure out that that you wrote this code Okay, so let's I Don't know someone says that I have very few minutes left. I think I have plenty of time So, yeah Just summarize We looked into how to write modules. So first of all check out registry dot or a form dot IO and point something there It's it's likely to be excellent starting point at least if you're not going to use it entirely and Avoid things like providers and provisioners at all in modules use it somewhere else outside and let's look how to call more Okay, as we understand the amount of resources Still keeps growing we figure out that we just Made our module we put something there. We somehow have to orchestrate this invocation We somehow have to call one module and pass dependencies to another one and so on. So let's look into different patterns here So the first pattern is all in ones where you have to declare variables and outputs in fewer places, but The last radios is pretty big You may use some things like minus target as an argument and specify that you just want to take care of this specific subset of resources it will work for some time, but it's not the idea and Everything is blocked at once means that if I'd like to cooperate with some of my colleagues on this project When they run it, I cannot run it. I cannot run plan or cannot apply it. I will have to wait and if we are talking about Resources like cloud thrones or if we're talking about Azure provider things can take minutes Sometimes hours. So this can be very strange that you have to wait So Another pattern is one in one Where things are getting much more isolated and it is possible to work in an isolated set We have different Responsibilities, for example, if we're working with VPC, it's unlikely that we're gonna have to change VPC every day, but it's probably a good idea that we or it's going to be quite possible that we're going to work with application configuration code quite often because we'll use VTOPs and we'll change all of our TFRs file from CI server. So then it's a good idea to separate and make much smaller less ratings But the only downside here as I understand is that we have to copy paste a lot of variables and outputs if we want to use this pattern So now let's I don't see so many hands obviously, but the question is What kind of ways do you prefer where things are organized like this? Can you raise your hands? Okay, at least one I see no too. Okay. Yeah, but not so many. Okay. Let's Who's using this pattern one and one right so much much more I can see this even now That's really good so There are a few people's raised hands all in one but Significant amount of people raised one in one so and MFA is most frequent answer Actually is somewhere in between because it's very often when you start using something You are not thinking like oh my god, this is going to be my ideal project I will make everything correct from first day, right? It's it just not gonna happen So it makes perfect sense to start with something small and then iterate to the and then when you figure out that now I have I start to have some mess then it's time So how I can actually Invoke different modules What can I do from there and? The question is what kind of orchestration tools do you use I can give you him that you can use minus target Terraform apply minus target and then specify some module or you can use make file to chain Different invocation of Terraform in it apply in it apply outputs and many different crazy things What what exactly? Are you using? Like just randomly Who's using things like target or make file and happy with it? Right, so it's pretty funny that I have so many questions and I don't see answers, but I guess it's five ten people Okay, so I have some good good news for you. You can use Terraform for that as well Right, you can use no resource to involve Terraform from Terraform. Isn't it cool? No Just don't do this. Okay, there are better solutions for versioning, but calling Terraform from Terraform is Is doable I did it But I did it just for fun to figure out that you have to treat Terraform a little bit different It's not it's not made for that Terraform was designed to run just things linearly where you change while you run plan run apply You see output and you can continue running the same things to verify that infrastructure has not changed But if you're actually thinking about orchestration in Terraform the best tool out there right now is terra-grant Terra-grant is tool is open source. It's written by grunt work People and lots of users worldwide Are using it to exactly involve and change different invocation of infrastructure modules So how it looks the Terraform TF vars file has configuration block Where it's specifying where and also what kind of dependencies this module has in this example We are calling easy to instance module, which means that network stack has to dependencies and Also, we just specify what This So that's the only thing which is, it was very easy to, to make it, and it works quite nicely. Because everyone has configuration, not like poops, before poops and after poops. So before running plan or apply, I just wanted to make sure that I actually engaged information about some of the VCA here, or bunch of other things which don't really have to be combined and put it into the TFR file. If you want it, you can use it on your TFR. So we're just going to do about the core models, and now let's look into how to actually write or how to work with code. If we have new features that are on the configuration, it's easy. I'll separate the folder. The pattern here is that we use data source and we use resource together. Data source will pick up if ID was present, and resource will be created if it is not present. And again, the output of this value will be the first node empty value which is there. So we're working with list. The problem with telephone 011 is that lists in telephone have order, which means that if we have a list of IM users, user 1, 2, 3, 4, and then we want to remove user 2, then it means that user 3 and 4 will have to be recreated because their IDs or their placement has changed. For some resources, it's totally fine. But what if we actually create IM users and IM access keys which are stateful? I mean, when someone whose name is after my name, leaving the company, or before my leaving the company, I don't want to have new IM access secret key generated for me. It will be very strange. When person with last name starting with Z will have new IM key every day. That's not going to help you. So the solution here is that if you need to work with stateful list, you may use tools like jsonnet. jsonnet is open source and it's available as CLI where a template for it looks like this. Where you configure... No, this is actually not template. This is an output. It's a template. So the template here is written in jsonnet format. And as we probably know, json and htl are compatible. We can use json file as well as htl and Terraform will recognize that. That's why generating of json is usually easier than generating of htl. So if we run common like this, then the output will be a collection of modules for each individual user. And if we run Terraform in it and apply, it will just take care of this user. It will not remove anyone from anyone in the list who's after. Another thing is related to integration. It may think that Terraform has everything that I need, but there is no way to do, let's say, a specific feature. Because Terraform is not always up to date with recent announcements by AWS. And if AWS announced something, it's likely that it will be supported in the near future, but probably not right now. So there is still need to use some things like AWS CLI where we can just use output from one resource and execute it in shell. If we need to use outer integration, then we again may use no resource for that. There are a bunch of bunch of edge cases, which I'd like to talk tomorrow during BOF about infrastructure testing, but just a small subset of these problems and edge cases is that different AWS regions as well as different AWS accounts have different things, like version of S3 signature, whether EC2 classic link was enabled in this account or in this region before, whether IPv6 is available here or maybe it's not going to be available, or maybe IPv6 was there all the time, all of this will have different effects on how you write Terraform. So be very careful and think carefully where this specific code will be executed. So what is the top limit of resources in AWS, like you may think that it works in dev environment because I'm using something very small, but it will break in production because you have the limit amount of IP addresses, for example. So just be careful about that.  If you are willing to use Terraform in a way that you remember the comment which you wrote last time when you worked on this project, then the best comment is actually no arguments at all, so that you run just Terraform apply or just Terraform init and don't specify any arguments, especially if it is not secret. I mean, if it is not secret, then you put it into TFR's file. If it is secret, then you use it as an environment variable and it will be loaded or picked up by Terraform. But it's a pretty bad idea to remember that you have to run Terraform apply and then specify two variables and remember order of work files which you have to write. It is very easy to break and you will just make problems for yourself. And also you think that using target and parli-business is a good idea because I have big infrastructure and I just want to work on this specific area and it works very fast so I will just keep running with minus target and don't care about the rest. It will be probably fine for some time or for really small edge cases. But if you keep doing the same things over and over, you will simply not be able to answer question what kind of configurations I have on this environment or in production or in depth with this target so you didn't find it for everything. And Terraform workspace is evil for majority of cases. I've been in this discussion many times and I'm glad that Terraform documentation was updated not very long time ago where they actually explained quite nicely why and what exactly workspaces were designed for because there was huge amount of confusion where people thought that I can just use workspaces for depth staging codes and everything will be fine. No, it's not going to be fine. And the reason why it's not going to be fine is that very soon you will have differences between your environments and something will not be as equal in depth while it should be equal and huge amount of complications you are just bringing to yourself as well as dependency howling modules. Terraform does not have a good pattern of using or specifying dependencies between modules so there is no magical requirements TXT or package JSON whatever else we get used to in other languages. There are some attempts by community to write a Terraform file where modules will be configured in one place and we can sync them together but it's good just for the highest level. Don't try to use module in module in module in module simply because your file system supports sendings. It's not a good idea. It's just one or two levels maximum isn't it? So, for the time, as another type of summary I'd like to highlight that I think the best thing or the best advice which I can give is to proceed Terraform easily. Even if it has CLI of 20 or 30 different arguments and you think that you will need all of them at once try to not use all of them. And you may think why it is so because somebody wrote them so I have to use it and if you're even curious why it says for the future in the title because there will be 012 eventually. There are some core contributors to Terraform in this room somewhere there so you may ask questions later and they will be able to answer and hope. But the point of 012 is that you may think, you may be very excited that HCL 2, wow, simplified syntax. Cool, so I have to start using 012. The loops are going to have to be there so I can use all countless core loops core each for dynamic loads and finally left and right part will not be executed simultaneously in conditional and I can use conditional operation properly and many, many other things which you think you need but what I've just tried to figure out from the community is that a lot of people think that 012 is what they need just because I have these problems with my code for some time and 012 has all of these features so I will just start using it and it will somehow make my code easy. I personally don't think that it matters so much 011 had lots of things which people were happy with we created lots of things using it it was fine but with the amount of features which 012 is bringing into developers I'm afraid that a lot of developers will try to use much more of these features in TerraPoint codes and it will be just very easy for them to make another sort of spaghetti code. The way how TerraPoint 012 has to be used and where it's particularly beneficial is just for writing TerraPoint modules itself so that when you're thinking about I need to make a module for F3 buckets by the way this is one of the modules which I couldn't write for the last two years because there are 225 permutations and I don't want to make 225 modules so if I'm using 012 in order to use dynamic blocks and four loops and so on inside of module then it's great but I don't want developers who fall in love with HCL with easy syntaxes and they say that omega-json is bad but HCL is excellent and now I have to tell them that oh by the way you can use loops and don't forget that you can use this and this and this it will be just another level of complexity for them if you really like 012 then put all of your knowledge into writing modules and not let your developers who are just starting especially TerraPoint learning the overwhelm with amount of features and I really encourage to use existing modules and utilities provided by the community I'm sure there are some people in this room who wrote some utilities so thanks personally for all of you because I use a lot of those tools I have some bonus I can see who was sleeping so not many who was sleeping so that's good so some of you may saw this before so this is a tool called Cloudcraft where you can visualize your diagrams of your AWS infrastructure and you can make different boxes together you can think about what kind of properties or attributes all of this has to have and about a year ago I was thinking like yeah but we have TerraPoint we have infrastructure code we have AWS console which people should never have access to because there is code already so why you should be able to manage something there so it's kind of not exactly the point and a year ago I was thinking like it would be probably good idea to make generation from this visual diagram from Cloudcraft into TerraPoint AWS modules so using TerraPoint AWS modules as building blocks for AWS infrastructure and use TerraPoint as a tool to actually call all of this so that's why approximately two months ago so I open sourced this and it is infrastructure as code generator which gets your visual diagrams with your cloud architect love and draw and give you some information as TerraPoint code you can try it like this but some of you may think like yeah but we've already saw different bootstrappers which could just not bootstrap but boilerplate code which we just create in hello world but it's not actually practical and we just believe it immediately that's why I paid lots of attention to how to how to write it to be as close ready to use as possible take a lot of amount of attention to all details, connections and actually enforce TerraPoint best practices by installing and configuring different tools like pre-commit hooks TerraPoint it is open source and if you like AWS Lambda and Python you may try to open an issue there and yeah that's it so there will be some we still have some time speak loudly please don't get up and start moving because that will disturb the question round and we have a little bit of time so thank you very much for the talk in all of the time that you spent with Terraform what is your preferred state management and state locking system I know it's kind of off topic but yeah and locking how do you make sure that it's locked yeah so the question is about state management I hear this question pretty often from not AWS users because it doesn't have any block storage which is used now I mean block storage I mean if you say that you don't want to lose this file and then you delete this file you actually lose it that's not state management in Azure so a lot of people are happy with whatever they have easily available if they already have console installed in their infrastructure then they keep using console but if it's just a new project which started from zero then F3 will satisfy your needs for a very long time and I personally have not heard almost anyone who is using something else I mean of course on Google you can use whatever Google provides but there are no I have not met anyone who is saying that oh we are using just solution so console F3 and for locking and for answering questions about locking it's also whatever you have in place most of people will never will never meet any challenges with DynamoDB it works just fine alright any more questions one more time I asked if you could please not start moving because it's really disturbing for everyone who is interested in the question well thanks for the speech I would like to ask I don't know if your experience have seen something like that but I I don't know if you have seen in your telephone life something about like changing from current modules that you are using to cloud formation stacks as far as I know there's no tool for that right now and I don't know if you have yeah so it's pretty interesting question because once people start using telephone they are almost never looking into anything else and there are some competitors but it's not cloud formation so even if people are with AWS and they say that we are not going to leave AWS we are quite happy with cloud formation it's unlikely that they will suddenly stop using telephone and continue using cloud formation there are no tools as far as I know but there are some quite easy ways how you can do this since most are pretty well documented you may have some yes there are tools like telephone to generate telephone configuration based on your exit to infrastructure so that you run telephone and it will give you HCL snippet for this specific resource which is what it is and it will be able to adopt existing resources into telephone state as well but there is no need because I have not heard as you mentioned my telephone wife I think that on this topic where we've seen it is that every once in a while you see these cloud formation stacks that are fully developed and to convert something like that to telephone is not always easy for instance AWS landing zone stuff is like a huge cloud formation stack and so I haven't seen a proper terraform landing zone answering or adding information about migration from existing resources is not an interest or AWS to let you go so they clearly have something internally they pay attention but clearly what's going on in the market but it's not something what they're interested in doing that's why you don't have even access to state you cannot do anything with state so you have to literally kill this resource and start it in another place in many situations all right thank you very much now you can move


Use us and don't replace us Ya'Allah. Ameen, Ameen, Ameen Ya'Allah. And Ya'Allah we ask you, we ask you Ya'Allah for everything good and beautiful that our dear Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad ﷺ asked you for. And we seek protection from every harm that our dear Prophet Sayyidina Muhammad ﷺ saw protection from. And Ya'Allah our colleges and institutions and our messages and communities. Ya'Allah beautify them Ya'Allah. Protect them Ya'Allah. Give them oqaf and endowment funds Ya'Allah. So they're not begging Ya'Allah and they have dignity and integrity. Ya'Allah protect our Muslim students, our young men Ya'Allah. Protect our young men. Protect their eyes Ya'Allah. Protect their ears Ya'Allah. Protect their character so they don't have inferiority complexes and trying to please all of this nonsense culture Ya'Allah. Give them dignity to be proud Muslims Ya'Allah. To be proud Muslims Ya'Allah. To be proud Muslims. To be proud followers of the best of creation Sayyidina Muhammad ﷺ. And protect our sisters and our daughters and our nieces Ya'Allah. Let them walk like queens Ya'Allah. Let them be proud to be Muslims Ya'Allah. And protect our elders Ya'Allah. Give them dignity Ya'Allah. Ameen. Ameen. Ameen. Ameen. Ameen. Subhan Rabbika Rabbil Azzati amma yasifoon As-salatu wa s-salamu alaika yaa khatamal nabiyeen. As-salatu wa s-salamu alaika yaa man arsalak Allah wa rahmatal lil'alameen. Wa-Radhi Allah wa ta'ala an ashabi Rasulillah yaa juma'een. Al-Fatiha. Allah. Ameen. Ameen. Ameen.


Hey? Oh, that does not work. Mmm. Okay, I'll just hunch. Hi. Oh, all right, I'm very like sweaty and red-faced because I just took Doyle on a walk and yeah, I also just got home. So I'm a little distracted today. Work was better than yesterday. I know I was super vague, but I have to be super vague. But the majority of the staff that was in today, we went out to lunch and it got some tacos. We went to like a Mexican, like a local Mexican restaurant, which was really good and the queso was delicious and the conversation was good and all that good stuff. So yeah, the majority of us went out, which was kind of fun for a Friday.  So anyways, we did that, so that was good. I did a little bit of grocery shopping. I have a friend coming over tomorrow and we're going to be doing a little bit of cooking and we're going to film it and I'm really excited about it, but I had to pick up a couple of last minute supplies for that. So I stopped at Target on my way home and then I also stopped at a local place called Coburn's as well because Target didn't have everything I was looking for. It's fine. I didn't expect them to have everything.  Let's see what kind of food they have because the Target near me isn't a super Target, but like one kind on my way home is a super Target. So they have like way more grocery selection than I have here locally. So also kind of a sad thing that happened today is my mom had to take my dad to the ER. He has kidney stones and has struggled with them for quite a while. He sees a urologist in Florida and they've been kind of like working together to, you know, figure out, you know, how to deal with this and the closest hospital slash ER that's closer to my parent as close as can be to my parents. Unfortunately, due to the holiday weekend or like coming up on a holiday, they don't have any urology people all weekend long. So they had him ambulanced over to a different hospital that has, you know, urology staff on staff for the weekend. So his pain is really bad, unfortunately, and that just kind of happens.  So they are keeping him overnight. So he's being admitted to the hospital. My mom has been with him all day. This started at like 10.30 this morning and she's been with him all day. At 6 o'clock he was finally transported like via ambulance over to the other hospital and I got to, I think there was, there was some sort of health care provider with him to like manage his pain in case something happened. So anyways, he is gonna be staying overnight there and then I will probably talk to my mom tomorrow morning and, you know, see how things are going. I just told her keep me in the loop. You know, clearly this is not like a life-threatening thing. Thank goodness.   But yeah, I'm a little distracted. So yeah, I wasn't gonna do my laundry day Q&A today but I feel like I wouldn't answer the questions very well. I don't know, do you guys feel that way when you're like kind of distracted about things? I'm actually gonna do my laundry, I think on Sunday. Like I said, I have somebody coming over tomorrow. So either I'll do it like Saturday night or Sunday, which Sunday is the last day of Loon. Oh my gosh. Um, it's like July almost, that's kind of nuts. So anyway, but I will get that video done and I think, I think it's gonna be on Sunday. I'm pretty sure it'll be the last vlog because why not go out with a bang? So anyways, if you guys still have questions, because I'm gonna post this tomorrow morning. If you guys still have questions, feel free to go onto my Instagram or my Facebook page and there's gonna be like an image that says like this is for the laundry day Q&A post your questions below. So just post your questions there. So anyways, I am going to jet for the moment. I'm gonna answer some emails and do some stuff online and then I'm gonna have a little bit of dinner and just like try to chill out. This has been an interesting week. Like a very interesting week and to boot. Then now my dad is in the hospital so. But yeah, I will see you guys in just a little bit. Peace. Oh hey, I'm back. It looks like nothing has changed, but it has, I promise you. I have had some dinner, a couple hours have passed, so I am almost ready for bed, but I wanted to share with you guys what I was doing. So I was jamming on the planner. This is this week currently. So what I've been doing is I've been using these like sets from Wonton and a Million. They are from Michaels. I will put the haul that I hauled these in and the wherever up in a card for you guys. What I like to do is I'm a fan of back planning but I do put in my work. So what I like to do is, hold on, I'll show you a little bit more. During like my work day usually starts in between anywhere from 7 to like 8 30 at the very latest. So usually like 7 to 8. So I don't mind if like it's not perfect right here, but I do like kind of put in the time when I leave and then anything that has to happen. So like I paid a medical bill in the middle of the day. It's very exciting. And then like after work I went to Petco and then I also went to Aldi, Target and Cub. And then my mom was here to deal with the AC person. That's a whole another debacle. And then I had to talk with my neighbors about this whole thing. Anyway, and then like Wednesday I had a migraine. So I did work from home during this time only. I did take two hours of PTO and then at the end of the day I was feeling so much better. But it was take the trash out night because it's like in the morning. And then I had to remember to break down boxes. And then yesterday was a crazy day at the office, but it was like actually storming outside. And then I put this little guy in there to be like, what the heck? And I went out to Zupa's, which is like a soup sandwich and salad restaurant. I got like the pick two. It was like a soup and a salad. I should only do like the pick one because I can never eat all of it. But Zupa's I had a salad and soup and it was delish. And then I don't think it did anything last night. I don't know whatever. And then this is today. So my dad was in the ER in the morning. I went to El Rodeo for lunch with the co-workers. And then I stopped at Target and Coverns.  So hopefully he doesn't have to stay another night. But I don't know. And then tomorrow morning I'm just going to tidy up a little bit. And then my friend Jamie is coming over. And I have this like cute little chick right there because we are going to make the cheesy carbs. So I'm pretty excited about that. And then I'm going to do laundry on Sunday. And then I'm going to do also my laundry day Q&A for you guys for the last day of VLOON. So anyway I just wanted to come up here and like jam on my planner for a little bit. And like not think about anything. You know what I mean? Like sometimes you just got to like zone out. And then after this week is over, the week that we're in, I'm moving into a new planner guys. I will be sharing because I've gotten lots of requests for this. I will be sharing like all of this. Like the first you know months, six months of the year. So I will show you guys every single page. I'm not gonna go through and take things out. Actually I think I'm gonna walk through it by myself quick just to make sure there's like no personal information. I don't think that there is. But I'll just flip through real quick before I start filming. And I probably will film on Sunday film this weekend. So anyways but I hopefully will have that up for you guys very soon. I have my Simply Gilded box coming. I think it's coming tomorrow. So I want to film that video. And okay so I want to talk to you guys about the Simply Gilded boxes. So as many of you know I am not a bow fan. Like I just am not. And I will leave the Simply Gilded website down below if you are like interested in checking it out. But she's got beautiful washi. She does this subscription box which is really cool. And there's lots of different things in the subscription box every single month. It's kind of a mystery. Like you don't know what's coming. I mean you get the same boxes everybody else for that specific month. She does like sneak peeks and stuff like on her Instagram and the Facebook group and stuff like that as well. But I know myself and I would rather just keep all the washi and all the things that I absolutely love and then if there's anything that's just not my style I want to do like giveaways in all those videos. If I want to give something away. I mean I might just keep the whole darn thing. But I feel like if someone's watching that video they're probably into Simply Gilded stuff or they want to check it out. So you know would give them like an opportunity to do that. And I won't do it on YouTube. It's it's too difficult like logistically to do giveaways on YouTube. I know there's a lot of like bigger YouTubers that do it. I just can't. So I will either do a Facebook or an Instagram giveaway on those. So make sure to just be following me because I will make announcements there. I'll also make an announcement in the video as well. But I'll just like leave a link to where it is. But yeah because I had like a huge stash of washi. I actually did a swap with somebody. So she's sending me some washi that she doesn't you know need or want from Simply Gilded and I sent her like all my bows. All my Simply Gilded bow washi because it's just like not for me. But I wanted them to go to like a good home. You know what I mean? So yes I think moving forward I'm just gonna make a decision and give stuff away. And I don't know if I'm gonna actually make the decision in the video or if I'm just gonna like post a picture on my social media sharing what I'm getting rid of or you know and what I would do a giveaway with and then you guys can decide from there. I'm not really sure how that's gonna play out because I might like need a minute to think about it because clearly you know those videos are like my first reaction like I don't know what's in the box. I mean I do kind of know what's in the box but I haven't seen it in person. So sometimes you see it in person and the colors are more vibrant or you know things don't always look same as they do on the internet because the internet never dies. So yeah but that's just something I was thinking about. So I hope you guys would be into that. I mean I seem like you guys are always into a giveaway you know. So anyways yeah I think I'm gonna say goodbye for today because I have yammered on way too much and I'm very excited for tomorrow's situation which is all the cheesy carbs that is going to happen. So yeah that's that's what's happening in the planner this week so far. All right it is time to go to bed. Phil is back there hold on I'll show you guys Doyle because Doyle challenge. Hey bud whoa that's pretty this yeah. Hey dude did you want to go to a party? Sayyama I've been wanting to go for a while. She's never paid a tantrum to me.  All right you gonna say bye to your friends? Oh look you can get a sit. All right you gonna say bye to your friends? Yeah? Whoa look at those ears. Look at those ears. He's so cute. All right well we're gonna say goodbye. So goodbye and I will see you guys in tomorrow's video. Bye guys. Well folks it's time to kick it old school.


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So we did a survey and the survey was, you know, the results of the survey just came out recently. And what the survey showed to us was that more and more people are leading hybrid lives. The survey was conducted in eight countries including India. And interestingly one of the statistics that came out was that 50% of the people lead hybrid lives. That is where work-life integration is something that is happening. And interestingly, 66% that is two out of three respondents to the survey said that that makes them lead a better life. So what we have tried to do is through this survey we have said that American Express would want to provide powerful backing to our customers in whether it's in their personal lives or whether it's in their, you know, at work because given that, two are highly interconnected. Tagline just talks to that which is don't live life without it and that is talking about the personal aspect of it and don't do business without it which talks to the business aspect of it. And these two we believe, like I said, are highly interconnected and that is the work-life integration. This is what is the new phenomenon that we are seeing not only in our global markets but closer home in India also. So today we've just unveiled the campaign and we are very excited about it. We are leveraging all the mediums and, you know, it will play out over the next few months but we are very excited about the campaign. It would be a lot of focus again given technology is, you know, in a country like India where people have, you know, smartphones and especially the target audience that we are looking at. So a lot of it would be digital content and, you know, online videos, that would be a lot of it. I'm not saying for a moment that we will not have print or outdoor but, yes, there would be a heavy preponderance and dependency on digital. American Express is there and, you know, a key message is powerful backing. Our brand stands for security, integrity and trust. Those are the tenants of the brand and that is what this campaign looks like.


talk is 5G and net neutrality and the statues of the net neutrality reform in Europe and the presenter is Thomas Lohninger from APRICENTERWORKS and I'm very happy he's here today with us and so please give a big applause to Thomas Lohninger. Thank you. Hello. Here we go again. Yeah. Hello and welcome everybody. I'm going to talk a little bit about net neutrality. This is not my first talk about this issue here at Congress and I really joined the net neutrality debate because I really found it to be an important issue. I liked it as a philosophical concept of the Internet serving the edges and also because it was back then was still a very young debate. You could still read up on all the legislation around the world because there was so little about it and a decade later there is more legislation. The debate has moved on a lot of course in the US. It has been first and foremost after Trump repealed the Obama era rules and in Europe we feel like we're a little bit stuck in time and I also want to explain where we currently are and where we are heading. So it is an update but it's also an update with a little bit of a perspective and might even have a civil lining. But before we do that we first have to go back to the beginning and explain what net neutrality is. If you are in the US and you ask anybody serving coffee in the train they will know it but in Europe it's still something that maybe needs to be explained. In general net neutrality means that all bits should be created equal. That the network should not make distinctions about our data packages how important they are if the checksum is correct. Of course if the checksum is correct but also a lot like is this a valid feature for this application. Is this a legal transmission. All of these decisions should not be made in the network because they should be made by their endpoints by the applications on either side. And the easiest way to understand net neutrality is if you compare it with previous global telecommunication networks in the television system. You also have a global communication network but it takes a lot of money to actually have a voice there to start a television channel. So you're just consuming it is not a bidirectional network. Telephony allows that it's a global network system but you have a central entity that decides if you're allowed to make that call and what the cost of that call per duration will be. That's all not the case with the internet in a way net neutrality is just trying to protect these inherent principles that the internet was born with from under discrimination of network operators of telecom companies or ISPs. And telecom companies can discriminate or interfere with our traffic more or less in two ways. The first is technical by prioritizing or throttling certain data packages also modifying them or blocking them completely. And the second way to influence them is by so called zero rating by making certain data more or less expensive cheaper or more expensive or as exempting certain applications from your monthly data cap at all. And that all creates a system where certain big players have it easier to get reach to grow to innovate and others have a harder time to even being noticed or growing. And it can also be summarized by the principle of innovation without permission so that you can just start a new service. You don't need a license to start an app. You don't need the network to support your new functionality. The open layered architecture of the Internet is protecting this innovative capacity. And that even allowed this young man 2004 to create the Facebook dot com in his college dorm and the total cost of operating the server in the beginning was eighty five dollars per month. And you would ask yourself OK but isn't Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook really a horrible person company. Yes they are. That's also why they are against net neutrality these days. Facebook is one of the most violating companies around the world because their program Free Basic is really the opposite of net neutrality. What they're doing there is basically creating a walled garden for the global south. The most vulnerable people on this planet that do not get to fall into that axis. But what they get is a way of being marketed to via the Facebook services of course without any privacy. And similarly also Netflix was once a company strongly on our side supporting net neutrality. And then when it was clear that Trump would repeal the Obama era net neutrality rules the Netflix CEO said to the shareholders don't worry we are now big enough that we can survive without net neutrality. So inherently this principle protects the underrepresented voices and the small players the ones that still need to grow. And it is not the silver stick that will solve all of the problems from the previous talk. The problems we have with the big platforms. But if we lose net neutrality we more or less freeze the current dominant players forever because it will be really hard for anybody else to ever become as big. And so it's all about that right column here. Where are we in Europe. In Europe we started the discussion around the neutrality in 2011 12. They were the first non binding resolutions of the parliament calling for net neutrality protections. And it all culminated in 2013 when the Commission released their proposal for really an anti net neutrality bill. So we had to turn the ship 180 degrees around to get it back on track. And we did that with the safety internet dot you campaign which was hosted by a big coalition of NGOs all around Europe. And we followed the legislative process for two and a half years with seven iteration of that campaign always changing our means from faxing to the parliament to making phone calls to just must bombarding the embassies to send in comments to the regulators in the consultation period. We also demonstrated Enriga in Barcelona in Bonn in Brussels in Vienna. And at the end we got a net neutrality law. The open internet regulation was adopted in 2015. And it was further than implemented by the barric guidelines that are kind of the handbook for the guys who actually have to enforce the law. Telecom regulators and telecom regulators will be important in the rest of the talk because that's where the action currently lies. And so this was in 2016. And in January of 2019 we released this report which was really more academic exercise of summarizing everything that has happened since. So it's really the one thing you should read if you want to know how a net neutrality has played out over the past two and a half years. That's the table of content and there's a lot of it in there from analyzing 800 pages of annual reporting going through case law and looking ahead about 5G. But the most important thing was the chapter about zero rating because that's where the debate currently is focused on in Europe. And in order to bring this debate back to a factual basis we actually did a lot of work with doing a complete survey of all zero rating offers in the European economic area. I don't think that anything like this was ever done before also because yeah it wasn't easy. We went through 32 countries so all of the European economic area that this law applies to including Switzerland because we have German speakers in our team so it was not that hard. That might in total going through the websites of 225 mobile operators both those that have their own network as well as the virtual ones. And we collected data with in total five people that spoke six languages and worked for over four months on this. We found 186 net neutrality violations in the form of zero rating programs. And all of the data is openly accessible. It's linked in a report. It's all online in a free format and used under a CC by SA license. So share a like. I've given that talk in front of many regulators. You're the first ones to applaud. I really liked it. And the SA of course because we think this data should remain free. We can always disagree on the interpretation but at least the fact the data itself should be openly accessible to everybody and scrutinized by everybody as well. And I've seen other people actually using that data for commercial purposes which we would even allow but not sharing it back which is a sad thing. Yeah. So what is in that data set. You could see the zero rating is really a big problem all but two European countries. You have these problems. Finland doesn't have that problem because they don't have data caps anymore. If you buy a SIM card in Finland you'll get a flat rate. The only distinction there is the speed the bandwidth that is available to you. But you know I have no data caps at all and Bulgaria also doesn't have zero rating. If we look at the application site and that's actually the very interesting takeaway for you. These are the applications that most profit from zero rating. So WhatsApp leads before 50 zero rating deals in Europe and the second to follow is Facebook. And there's a Facebook messenger in there. In total many of these companies that profit are from the U.S. only three European applications are actually in the top 20 of zero rating. And that is the overall number. And then we just looked at the geographical home of the applications in the classical zero rating programs. You know the ones where you have a youth tariff in Portugal and you can pick either WhatsApp or Telegram or you have YouTube is for free. Some ISPs actually do that. And if you just look at these close programs which only have hand selected applications the majority of the apps are from the U.S. Of course the big incumbents. But there is also around a third of applications which are of zero rating programs which are open. Open programs allow other applications to join. Think of Streamon here in Germany or Vodafone Pass or SmartNet in Portugal. These programs are actually trying to balance the scale a little bit. They are actually trying to learn from our critique and allow other applications to join. And then if we add those to the statistics we see that the majority of apps are suddenly from the same country where the Internet service is offered. All of these local radio stations in Germany that for some reason join Streamon in order to be exempt from the data volume, the ridiculously low data volume from Digitail.com. And then in the second place you still have the U.S. And most interestingly in the European economic areas, so apps from other EU countries, are really down below. So one could easily make the interpretation of that data that we actually create new barriers for cross-border provisioning of services in the European digital single market. And if you then just count how many of these zero rating programs doesn't app usually join. You have a stark peak for one to three and then it drastically goes down until you have to get to the 31 to 52 column at the right, which is the top 20. So there is an inherent difficulty to actually sign up to these so-called open, non-discriminatory zero rating programs. What Europe has created here is actually another reason why it will be difficult for the European Internet industry to be competitive, because these are all new entry barriers into markets in other EU countries. And we really have to explain this to the regulators and if you just go take the perspective of an application, you want to join a zero rating program, what do you have to do? First you have to find out that it even exists. We did that mapping because we didn't know. And there is no agency that also sells that data, so obtaining knowledge about the programs that you might want to join, because you might want to offer a competitive service to people in that country with that ISP, is the first step. And then secondly, you have to request the documents, sign an NDA even to even find out how the open Internet works with this mobile operators. Third, you have to read that contract for which for many startups is already a problem, sign it and prepare for the liability, because you are liable for wrongfully built data volume, which can be really problematic if your app is producing a lot of data or widely used by certain people. And the technical aspect that comes into play here is that, of course, you are then responsible with providing identification criteria. If suddenly your data packages need to be counted differently, go against not the general data volume, but an application specific volume per month, or completely exempt from the data cap, then you in order to make that assessment need to identify those data packages, which of course only works with the packet inspection in most cases. In some cases, you also have to modify your service in order to even enter into that deal. Spotify in Germany with Streamon only wanted their premium customers to benefit from the zero rating. And they tried to separate the ad-based free version of the Spotify program from the premium customers that are paying. They tried for four months, then they gave up. So the business decision of that app provider was directly affected by the zero rating programs. Next, whenever you make a change to your own service or infrastructure, you change the CDM provider or whatever, you have to give 30 days prior notice to the ISP so that they can change their DPI equipment to adopt this change, which of course is a big hindrance for innovation. And in some contracts that we've analyzed, it also includes giving access to beta versions of your own app. And lastly, in the case of Vodafone, you also have to sign in execute a marketing agreement so they want to advertise with your app. So there is a lot of hoops to jump through in order to be admitted into one of these zero rating programs. So you'd think at least they do a lot of effort on the telco side to make it easier for you. So for this survey, we actually created a fake application and we tried to apply to zero rating programs. We said, hello, we are the student group, we are working out of a garage, we have that cool app, we want to join your program, and we just counted the duration until we got a response. In two cases, we got a response within a day. In five cases, we got a response within a week. In one case, within a month. And in half of the cases, we never got a response at all. So not after three months, they ever got back to us. So that truly shows that there is a big problem with these open programs. And I'm going to show you how the regulators have reacted to this report in their reform. But another more general thing is speed testing. Because in Europe, net neutrality also brought us the right to contractually agreed speeds for our internet access. In no other area in the economy, you would buy up to eight apples for five euros. But in the internet, for some reason, that's the case. And so the European Parliament was keen to adopt rules that were giving each and every consumer in their contract a minimum, an average, and a maximum speed that the ISP has to deliver. But how do you then measure the speed? Speedtest.net is really not a good site if you look at their business model. So regulators are often the ones that should offer these speed tools. And Barak recently released also open source and open source speed test measurement tool. And that hopefully will also change another problem that I'm going to show you. In Norway, the telecom regulator NCOM is actually really good at showing how the internet is improving year by year in their country. And of course, fiber is hitting through the roof and it's really good. And in general, we see that the internet is improving healthily and the supply is increasing to meet the demand. Austria, similar picture, regulators reporting the numbers every year. So we know how the internet is actually developing in these countries. You would assume that in Western countries, this is a given. It is also an obligation under the law. You really have to do that. But sadly, only eight countries are actually reporting figures if the internet supply is actually increasing. 23 countries release no numbers at all about whether the internet capacity is actually constantly meeting the increasing demand, which we see as a big problem, particularly with 5G, because that will mean that the last mile will suddenly be very fast. But the rest of the network, the core, the backhaul, this is where the next bottleneck will lie. And if we don't invest there soon enough, we'll really have a big infrastructure problem in the foreseeable future. So coming to the reform, so what is on the table? First, this is not a legislative reform. Contrary to the previous talk that I've given, this is not about engaging with the commission, the parliament or the council. This is all about the regulatory community. Like with the GDPR, the privacy law, it's great when we as activists proud our head and shoulders that we actually managed to get the law approved. And then the sad awakening comes, okay, but the guys who are in charge with enforcing the law are really not particularly motivated to do so. And then you are stuck in Ireland with the data protection authority for years. And your biggest problem is that they are not doing their job. Similarly in telecom regulation, what we have found is the biggest problem is to get the regulator to do their job. And that leads a lot of name calling and submissions and talks with them, which is really frustrating because it should not be the jobs of activists to enforce legislation. It should be the task of well funded regulators. So in that reform, we are kind of in the middle. The scope was released in 2018. In May, we had official stakeholder workshop, which went for five hours and was a bit gadiated debate. And October, November, the draft guidelines were released and publicly consulted around 50 stakeholders participated. We were one of them. And now BEREC has all of the input on their draft guidelines. And most likely in Q1 2020, we'll see an interim report summarizing that consultation, which, again, will be consulted. We would like that to happen because it would allow us to respond to comments from the telecom industry and to kind of have a more ping-pong debate. And finally, that all should come to a close in June 2020, when the new rules are adopted. And so now I'm going to go into what is actually in that draft and what to expect content wise from the topic. As you have seen in the title, what we are mostly talking about these days is 5G, the next mobile network generation. You must have heard about it. The telecom industry really has spent millions and millions in advertisement to make people interested in 5G. We have that whole trade war between Trump and who are we going on? And there are people talking about health risk, which is mostly overblown, but still 5G is really portrayed as the revolutionary new technology. Sadly, that's quite far away from the truth. 5G is an evolution. If you listen to the talk yesterday morning in German about the path from 4G to 5G, you will know that technology wise, 5G is a very interesting technology. And as a nerd, I find it interesting, but the only thing that's a given is that internet will become faster. All of the other promises you should take with a grain of salt. There are two particular technology aspects of 5G that I want to talk about in more detail. The first is network slicing. The title already gives it a way. Network slicing means you slice the network and every slice, every layer has different quality characteristics. So it's basically QS on the radio access layer. So it's basically allowing you to have one SIM card with several internet accesses to it. So you could have one that is very high bandwidth, super fast for Netflix, one for very low latency for gaming, one for very low energy consumption. So when your battery goes below 20% or you have solar powered IoT sensors, then you might want to use that because you actually don't care about bandwidth, you don't care that much about reliability, but you only have tiny battery or solar power. And it actually is good that we'll have that technology. But the question is then who gets which slice? And that's where the regulators in the business models get back into gear. The one scenario in which we could see network slices being marketed to us is on a per subscriber basis. So you have that one SIM card and it allows you to have several independent internet access services that are also separated from each other. And you as a user are in control which app gets which slice. You should not assume that all of these slices will be flat rate. It could be that you have a normal internet access, but a very high bandwidth or low latency slice is kept with two gigabytes per month. And so it actually is important that we as subscribers have a say in that the second way in which network slices could hit us is a specialized services. So there the access service to pipe is the same thing as the application that runs over it. So it's no longer universal access. It is no longer something that connects you to the whole internet. But it's basically just not a power plug but a Facebook plug. And we have a few safeguards five in total in the regulation that are kind of for protecting us against specialized services becoming too widespread. But this is where we'll see a lot of innovation hold on quote from the telecom industry to vertically integrate to either have Facebook as a separate dissolved product or maybe Facebook Oculus Rift VR or maybe some IoT vertical integration with some smart home shit. So stuff like that will most likely happen and 5G gives them more argumentation basis for these types of vertically integrated products. But that's something for enforcement. And lastly, which was our original fear is that network slices would be applied on a per application basis. So Google could make a deal and suddenly they are on the high reliability slice always. And this is thankfully not the case in the current draft. So we could already prevent with the work in the previous years this scenario from being a likely result of that reform, which is good because as I'll show you later these rules in Europe will have repercussions. The second technology aspect of 5G that merits some discussion is edge computing. And it's kind of breaking the principle of end to end. You no longer have desktops or mobile devices that are connected to one internet, whereas you have suddenly some computational power on the cell tower, on a very close data center connected with fiber lines. So that whole purpose here is very low latency and the industry is marketing this as something really great, something that will be heavily needed. Actually, there is very little real use cases out there that I think are realistic. The only one that we could find in that merits discussion is local dynamic maps. So it's basically if you think of a future in which self-driving cars all have their own sensory data and that sensory data is then cached in this edge cloud. So you have a 3D model that knows from the car that has gone around the same curve a minute ago that there is a traffic jam over there. And so your car, you would know before you even pass that curve. It is telling that even the European Commission backed a Wi-Fi based mesh network standard and not 5G, which means even that very weak example of edge computing is kind of discredited in Europe. So we have good cases for the global reform. And when we talk about 5G, it's important to stress that this is a global standard. 3JPP, an international body is standardizing the technology for 5G and now it's being rolled out step by step in the rest of the world. The US, of course, will not be helpful with that because they are heavily investing in 5G, but they are no longer net neutrality standards to test this new technology against. Canada, great neutrality law, but not taking a front seat approach to 5G. So they are not actively engaging with it. India, great net neutrality again, not interested in 5G yet. And South Korea, actually, our colleagues there could prevent a repeal of the net neutrality legislation in South Korea, but they tried. They tried to regularly send box net neutrality from 5G to just let the net neutrality rules that are already weak in South Korea to begin with not apply to that technology. So Europe is kind of the first world region that tries to square these two things together, and that's why our approach here might be quite influential. Also, if you think of the whole ecosystem, because what does it mean if we have user-controlled network slices? That means that on my mobile device I need to somehow also decide which application gets which slices at which time. And so Google and Android, Google and Apple, Freud, come into play here as well. Another issue that we did not at all expect to fight about is parental control filters. So when we thought about this law in the parliament and in the council in the trial look, we always had that looming danger of parental controls, like in the UK.  We could kill this in trial look, and so parental controls were struck out of the law books, and for some weird reason I would call it lobby pressure. The regulators wanted to allow this in this reform, and we shot heavily against it. We got even support from the consumer protection organizations from Bayouk, and we hope that we can actually prevent this. Because what would it mean? It would mean that suddenly in the terms of services you can circumvent net neutrality. Usually an ISP is of course not allowed to just randomly block websites, but parental controls are exactly that. If you want to do parental control filtering, do it on the device, but not in the network. Blocking should always happen on the edge, at the application, not on the network side. The picture is more interesting when we talk about zero rating, because they actually took many of our ideas and also from our report into consideration. The draft that was released in October actually contains even the same language of open zero rating programs, and it says they have to be fair, everyone needs to get a response. They have to be reasonable, so all documentation should be made public. They have to be transparent, so if WhatsApp calls or Spotify ads are actually counting towards your data cap and are not zero rating, you should at least tell the customer, and they have to be non-discriminatory. So Vimeo gets the same response time as YouTube. These are all our critical points.  So they have not drawn a red line. They have not said clearly we have these types of zero rating programs, which are okay, and then we have all of these others that you have to follow these rules for. And that is just, yeah, a level of lack of opportunity and the missed opportunity for the regulators, because whenever the rules are fuzzy and unclear, that only creates problems further down the road in enforcement. The last issue was also kind of unexpected in the beginning, because I thought we've solved that, deep packet inspection. So deep packet inspection means when an ISP is looking into your data packages.  Usually that should be prohibited. Everything that's payload of transport layer four should be off limit for an ISP. That's the general definition of deep packet inspection. And actually we thought that we've won that. But then there were rumors that deep packet inspection, they want to open it up and allow it again. So we launched that open letter, which was signed by 45 NGOs, academics and privacy experts. But we still felt like this is a hard push. We knew the regulators on the other side, Germany is one of them, that were just because of lobby pressure, really asking for exposed allowing deep packet inspection. And in that moment, Gandalf came. And we really got support from an unexpected friend. The highest data protection body in the European Union, the EDBB, issued a letter to Barrick and saying that the board considers the processing of data such as domain names and URLs by internet access service providers for traffic management and billing purposes, it's unlawful unless consent of all users is obtained. And that is interesting because of course all users means that it will never work. Because I as a customer of my telco can maybe consent to that, but not the rest of the internet that might send a data package down my way. So and they're not just saying this for the net neutrality law, they are also saying it for the interpretation of e-privacy of the GDPR, all of the other laws. So this is actually giving us even more sticks to go after the packet inspection in the future with that legal opinion. And lastly, completely unrelated reform that still plays into this whole thing. In Germany you can pick your own router. It doesn't matter which ISP you have, you have the right to buy a router from anywhere, even open source or Libre one, and it needs to be able to connect to your internet access service. That is not the case in many European countries because it is often unclear where does the network actually end and where does my home network begin. And that network termination point is one of the things that the same body barrack, the telecom regulators will decide for us. And again it looks like we will win. Winning in this sense means that you will have the freedom to choose your own router, you will have device freedom also in the customer premise equipment and the network ends at the socket at the wall, at the antenna, so it's actually quite good for user choice. The only car that I have to give here of course when the network ends, net neutrality ends.  And that's it for the neutrality thing and I think we still have some time for Q&A. Thanks. Yeah, thank you so much. And don't, don't leave yet. I wanted to say support every center work, support every, we need support, we need people who believe in this and who fight for this. And thank you. Okay, so do we have questions? We have questions from the internet maybe, not really. Number two please. Yes, have you seen any requirements in digital media playback for recording location information and identifying users? So especially the location information of media playback. I'm not sure I followed the question. So like, you mean like YouTube reporting the playback position of video? No, not the playback position, the position or the location of the user that is playing back to media? I'm not sure that that would relate to this. So the ISP of course knows in most cases where the user is, you know in all cases actually, and the content provider, if it is not localizing the user on the app with the location, then the ISP at least would not share that location information. I also wouldn't know by which API or on which legal basis they could do that. I hope that answers the question, but I'm not sure. Thank you. Okay, we have another question. Microphone for please. Hi. Will users have the same rights if they are not in the home country like if they are roaming? Yeah, it's actually an interesting question. So the net neutrality regulation is also the roaming regulation in the EU. Those two things are legally mixed together, but they actually they can be seen completely separate. So when you are roaming in another country, so my Austrian SIM card here in Germany, it is actually then the German provider that is physically providing me the internet access service which has to apply by the same European regulation for net neutrality. So and in most cases that would not mean that there is even a technical or legal connection to the customer, to the ISP in Austria that I have a contract with. Of course it gets then interesting because that's mostly about the technical aspect when we look about zero rating. And for most cases the zero rating would just not be possible. So if you have Strymon in Germany, you are a customer of T-Mobile, you are going to Austria and you are in the network of some ISP, then the zero rating would just not be possible and you would just have additional data volume given to you. There was actually a court case about that out of Germany and there is still ongoing litigation from the consumer protection NGO Fazit Bifal in Germany against Vodafone around that same question. It might be differently if you are a German T-Mobile customer in Austria and roaming in the T-Mobile network there. Because technically at least I think it would be possible to then apply the zero rating but I'm not sure if they actually do that. I think it would not be easy and then send if usually would also not be there because these are very few edge cases that even to configure and maintain those wouldn't make a lot of sense. Okay so next we'll have a question from the internet. So there was a question about DPI. Are data protection authorities doing anything about this and are there any enforcements in the European country? Sadly no and no but I think there is definitely an opportunity there for enforcement action and I know many of the people that work around strategic litigation and enforcement of the GDPR and they have their hands full because similar to net neutrality the great law that we've written in the in the last year is not taken very seriously by the regulators and I think it will again depend on activists or other entities bringing cases bringing complaints to data protection authorities around DPI before we see actual movement there. Legally I think particularly with that statement from the EDBB it would be an easy win so if somebody wants to earn spores or help with that I think it's a quite doable case to bring a complaint against DPI based on that legal opinion. So you're all part of it again. Number two please. I want to ask why the hell should the ISP mess around on layer four as you described it before? That is the current definition that we have like the regulation says no monitoring of specific content and Berek interpreted that in 2016 at meaning pay a load of transport layer four should be of limit that is the interpretation that the regulators have come up with and that of course was also a political compromise like where do you draw the line and so my slide there was really based on on the 2016 text of the guidelines. Okay number one please. So currently an app developer has to apply for an ISP to get zero rated what's to stop an ISP to just zero rate an app on its own to gain some market advantage? They can and there's nothing stopping it and what's up for example is easily just saying okay here's how you zero rate us and we don't even want to interact with you and so it does not need to be a bilateral agreement of course the ISP then has the problem if the app provider changes their service or infrastructure and the identification criteria should also change that the ISP needs to implement that change before it happens and so that's the reason for the 30-day period but again that problem might not even exist for big providers that have dedicated IP addresses if your service is coming out of a CDN then you would rely on SNI or other technologies to actually be identifiable. So we have one more minute and I'm sorry to say it's number four thank you others and yeah probably you can go to episode networks and contact Thomas there thank you. Hi I'm very touched by your argument about regulation not being enforced right now in the EU and in France it has been the case about video surveillance where the state has stated that KNIL the regulators are a consultative authority you know they shouldn't enforce that's what quadrature the association that is doing most of the work about that said so I don't know where we go from there you know I'm very scared it's nice that you're doing laws. What is the question please we just have two more seconds. Sorry my question is what do you think we can do to help enforce regulation in the EU. Big question yes there are many things there like one of the things that that is a positive development to look at the bright side is that more more digital rights NGOs are warming up to strategic litigation so ultimately why are regulators not acting because on the one side they have fundamental rights the law consumer protection and on the other side you have a big big company that will not accept their decision that will bring them to court no matter what and so if you're a small regulator with a limited budget you can either take the uncomfortable decision that you know you will be sued for or just stuck away and then the thing might be over so that the risk assessment and the cost calculation is currently not in our favor and that's why we need to bring more cases we have to make regulators really bear a certain risk on both sides of the decision and only then will the decision actually move more to the factual basis and and i mean i know there are many problems in france but at least knill was one of the few and or and dpa's that actually issued a few million penalties so there's at least some civil lining there okay so complain support edry support epicenter works thank you for being here and give another applause to thomas loeninger thank you so much