So, for those of you who were at the last talk, thank you for your loyalty. I'm gonna talk about technical onboarding training and mentoring now. It's probably not gonna be quite as funny.  This was originally a joint talk that was given at PyCon. I'm Kate Hedlestone. That's my Twitter handle so you can, you know, tweet thoughts at me. I'm a software engineer at RunScope. We make these sweet shirts that say everything is going to be 200 okay. If you want one of them, you can come find me afterwards. And Nicole Zuckerman was originally my co-presenter. She's a software engineer at Eventbrite. I'll let you figure out which one of these two people is her, but basically Nicole and I came together to create this talk because we had similar experiences at separate companies. Nicole went to Hackbrite Academy and then went to Eventbrite right afterwards. I went to a small startup out of college and at both of our respective companies, there wasn't any onboarding. I've mostly worked at companies that are smaller than 12 people when I joined. So onboarding is not a huge priority. About a year later, I had gained some confidence, many skills, like real world skills. And I looked back and I thought, there's some things that we can do, even as small startups, to make the onboarding experience better, to make it easier for people to get up to speed at your company without having a huge overhead, without having to build these massive onboarding programs that they have at large companies. All right, so what is onboarding? For the purposes of this talk, onboarding, as a definition, is going to be the act of taking someone from outside of the company, the team, whatever group of people it is, and making them a productive, independent, and confident member of your team. And this sounds really nice, right? If all employees are productive and confident and independent, that sounds like a really great engineering environment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case a lot of times. Someone shared a blog post with me the other day with their thoughts on onboarding, and he was like, yeah, our company is trying to change onboarding so that it's not so much about lighting someone on fire and then telling them to find water, and it's a little bit more welcoming. I was like, that's good. So to go through these three things, productivity, independence, and confidence, productivity is pretty simple. It's about creating efficient employees. This has to do with giving them the tools to write code, deploy code, and understand how features get built. Basically get their jobs done. Independence and autonomy is actually huge. Autonomy being an autonomous agent is really important to people. The greatest motivations in fact come through things that we choose for ourselves. The anecdote that I have for this is in prisons. They discovered that autonomy is really important. So when people are in prison environments, a lot of their rights and abilities to do things are removed. This leads to riots, dissatisfaction, many things that you would think would happen. So what they do with prisoners is they give them the right to choose the channel and they give them the right to move their furniture around. And this little bit of autonomy, this ability to choose for themselves what they get to do, even though it's very small, reduced prison riots significantly. So basically you wanna reduce riots at your company by giving people the ability to choose the TV channel. Confidence. Confidence is about creating employees who believe that they are valuable. And the word belief is actually really, really important. So a lot of people think they might think arrogance when they think confidence, they might think a lot of things. But this belief in your value to the company is paramount. And this is very much a human thing. This doesn't really have to do with computers. This just has to do with creating an environment where companies feel as though they can enact change and that they are capable of enacting change. Oh, the belief is really important. Also they did a study. So how many of you have heard of the concept of stereotype effect? The stereotype, no, okay. So the stereotype effect works like this. There are stereotypes in the world. Asians are good at math. Women are bad with computers. And what they found is that before tests, tests on things like physics or math, what they'll do is they reminded one group of this stereotype. Women are bad at math, men are better at math. Asians are better at math than all of those groups. And what they found was when they reminded people of these stereotypes, people performed to the stereotype. If they didn't tell anyone at all, people performed in a control group setting. And then the third group that they did is if they told people that their ability to do well in the test came from these sort of intrinsic motivators, like if you work hard, you'll be good at math. If you think about like your own personal qualities, that's helpful. What happened was they saw that everyone's performance improved and there was actually no difference across these different lines. So the stereotype effect is really important. It's this belief that you are good at something or not. And what's funny is just being told that you are good at this might actually change your performance. Okay, why do you care? You're all already here, so you probably care about technical onboarding and training at your company. Maybe you have to hire a bunch of new engineers out of college.  There's four categories that you should care about when thinking about onboarding. There's the individual, there's the company, there's the team, and then there's also a bonus section on diversity. Onboarding is really important for the individual. The cost of losing an employee can range from tens of thousands of dollars to 1.5 to 2x their salary. If someone gets off to the wrong foot at your company, if they're not happy, if they never get up to speed, if they never feel autonomous, confident and productive at your company, you're probably gonna lose them and that's really expensive. So having good onboarding, just getting everyone off to a good start is really important for individuals.  It builds their skills, their confidence, their happiness. The next one is the company. Onboarding is really important for the collective productivity of the company and the anecdote for this one is at LinkedIn. For a while, LinkedIn was actually losing productivity for every engineer that was added to their team and this was a huge crisis. They actually had to bring in some new executives, some new managers and they were like, we have to stop hiring. Like adding engineers to our team is actually decreasing our productivity. This is a nightmare. What you really want is something more like this. We want every new engineer we add to the team to increase productivity. So LinkedIn had to do this massive reorganization. They had to do a whole bunch of getting rid of some things, adding some things, adding onboarding and training and basically streamlining everything so that new engineers could come in and be productive. So onboarding and having onboarding early is going to stave off some of these problems that you might run into later. Team. So we talk a lot about technical debt. How many people have talked about or heard about the term technical debt?  We have a lot of bugs. This is completely unmaintainable. Nobody knows how to change this system. Well similarly, there's team debt. If you add a lot of engineers really fast and really thoughtlessly, you can get something like this happening. Everyone's running in a different direction. And since people are the most important component for building software, this is really, really detrimental. You want something that's more like this, obviously. This is my favorite equation that I've ever made up. The story behind this equation, and I have a lot of sports anecdotes because I played sports for a long time and I coached for a long time. But in college, when I was done playing, I actually coached JV Girls swimming and water polo. So JV Girls water polo, very new. Most of the girls couldn't swim, they couldn't throw a ball. We're talking very basic skills. Playing a full game with all seven players on the field was, I mean it was like, you know when you watch Pee Wee Soccer and all the kids kind of chase the ball around? It's a little bit like that.  But the other half was kind of the emotional team building part. And I told them this. I was like, look, your ability to win games and your ability to do well at this sport, even at this very introductory level, is the sum of your talent multiplied by your ability to work together as a team. Some of the people on the team didn't have a lot of natural talent. They were gonna have to work really hard to build their skills, but that's fine. Because if they focused a lot on working together, if they focused a lot on getting things done as a cohesive unit, they could actually beat teams that had more collective talent but didn't work together quite as well. And we've actually seen this in software engineering. A lot of the most popular tools out there were built by teams of less than 10. Gmail, for example, was built by a team, I think of like five to seven people. It's maintained by like a team of over 400 engineers. So you can get a lot done collectively as a small group in terms of productivity, in terms of building really cool products without having super talented engineers. If they all work really well together, a lot of mediocre engineers can do more than a few talented engineers who are kind of assholes. All right, the bonus section, diversity. So to illustrate diversity, I have Sneeches. The story of Sneeches, it's a Dr. Seuss book. There's the star-bellied Sneeches and the non-star-bellied Sneeches. And it's this story about the rift that's caused in the community of Sneeches based on those who had star bellies and those who did not have star bellies. And I use it to represent diversity because diversity can mean a lot of things. There's the classic ones, there's gender and racial diversity. There's also things like introverts versus extroverts, communication styles, I don't know, philosophical backgrounds, cultural backgrounds that don't have to do with race but have to do with how you were brought up. So diversity can mean a lot of things at companies. And why is diversity critical and why is onboarding a really useful tool for increasing diversity? Well basically what happens is this, if you have no onboarding, people coming into the company are going to rely on the existing social structures to get up to speed. So that means whatever the original group of people is, they probably have a way that they talk about things. They probably have certain social events that they do. They probably look fairly similar. And if someone comes onboard who is like them, who's able to communicate, who's able to go out with them, who's able to connect with this core group based on these existing social structures, they're gonna do better than someone who's not like the original group. Because what you have when you have no onboarding is not no onboarding, you have onboarding that relies on the social structures that you have in place. So creating an onboarding program that's slightly more structured, slightly more explicit, will benefit people who are different, people who don't naturally speak the way that people at your company already speak, that don't naturally wanna do the types of activities that people at your company wanna do. Because not everyone wants to go out drinking at 10 p.m. on a Tuesday night if you have a really young, party-oriented company. So you wanna give everyone a fair chance because they're very talented people who look very different from each other. Who can onboard? Anyone can onboard. This is a team of people carrying a canoe. This is not a group of ants carrying a taco just to let you know. I drew all these myself, by the way. Not a very good artist. Anyone can onboard.  This distributes the load. One person alone trying to onboard everyone is gonna burn them out. Similarly, I was talking to someone about mentorship and someone was saying, oh, you have to have a lot of experience to mentor. And depending on the type of mentoring you're doing, that's true. But going from junior engineer to senior engineer is not a one-step process. It involves going from junior engineer to less junior engineer, to less junior engineer, to maybe mid-level engineer, to slightly more mid-level engineer, to, hey, oh, I kind of think I get this now. And so having someone who's very experienced, who can guide the overall path is important, but some of the best people to mentor and train your new junior engineers are gonna be the ones who just did it. They're gonna still have empathy for what it's like to take that step. They're gonna understand the problems that they're running into. They're going to actually care about what this person is doing. And the more senior you get and the further away from that you get, the less empathy that you have for people. And in fact, we all know this. Senior engineers are total curmudgeons.   I'm so excited about what I'm doing. When? Okay. On-boarding starts as soon as the offer is accepted. Basically, on-boarding is not just about teaching someone the skills that they need to be successful at your company. It's about bringing another human being into a group of human beings. So making someone feel welcome, figuring out how to integrate them into the team. That's gonna start as soon as they've decided to come on board. On-boarding roughly ends when someone is reliably independent. And this can mean different things to different companies and I left it kind of vague on purpose. But the idea for a junior engineer at least is that we bring them into the company and they're kind of like, our on-boarding program is done when they're reliably independent. We can give them tasks and trust that they're going to come up with a semi-reasonable solution and a semi-reasonable amount of time and we can manage that effectively. So the house section that we're gonna go through now is a little bit philosophically about how to do this, but we're also gonna go through some concrete examples and ideas for how you can build your on-boarding program at your company. The first thing to think about when on-boarding people is to maximize your return on investment. And this might seem somewhat callous, but at the end of the day, why wouldn't you wanna maximize your return on investment? Like you don't wanna put a ton of resources into something and get less out of it than you put in. That just doesn't even make sense. It's a really, really common pitfall for mentors, especially first-time mentors. So if you have people on-boarding junior engineers at your company and they've never on-boarded someone, what you essentially have is you have a junior mentor mentoring a junior engineer. Like you have someone who's never done this before. They don't know what's going on. I love talking to people who are first-time mentors. They're like, I'm going to be the best on-boarding mentor ever. We're gonna do everything together. We're gonna take these courses. By the time they're done with these three months, they're gonna know everything I know. And that's highly unrealistic because people only absorb information at certain rates. Also, your expertise has to do with the number of issues that you've seen. And it just takes time.   You can help make that better and you can help focus their path, but you're not gonna make them into a senior engineer overnight. This tends to burn out mentors. So people do this. They burn themselves out in three months because it's exhausting teaching someone, and then they're like, I can't mentor again for another year. And your company's like, well, okay, I guess we can't hire any more junior engineers. We don't have anyone to train them. Instead, I like to think of it as bumper-bowling. One of the tenets of expertise is that you're able to set boundaries. You know the landscape. You know everything about this arena. So you can set boundaries. You can scope problems. You can figure out exactly what needs to be done and exactly what doesn't need to be done. Junior engineers, by definition, are not good at scoping. They don't know what the boundaries are. So what you need to do is set them for the junior engineers. Bumper-bowling is a great example. You set up the bumpers. It's fine if they just hit the bumper on each side going down. They're still going in that direction and that's where we want them to go. You don't have to handhold them through the process. You don't have to spend tons of time with them. Instead, you can just create an environment where they can kind of mess up and learn on their own and you can come in and help them grow when that needs to happen. So the onboarding plan, there's three major categories. There's technical knowledge, company knowledge and process, and personal development. These are about equal thirds for someone. We tend to think that the technical knowledge is the most important thing and people think it's like 80% of what engineers do. It's probably about a third. Like, another third is the domain knowledge of that company. How do I build a feature at this company? How do I ship code at this company? How do I deploy, given our deployment system? And then personal development, like the confidence, the autonomy, all of those different things, that's another third. People tend to think that skills or that confidence follows skills. In fact, it's usually the reverse. People who are confident will gain skills at a much more rapid rate than people who lack confidence. Okay, week one. Week one should be pretty simple for new engineers. Dev environment setup is really important. The thing that you can do to help new engineers is just automate as many tools as possible. The more automation, the better. The more maintainability, the better. As engineers, that is one of the best things we can do for people process is make sure that a lot of these things are automated. So shipping code is well. If shipping code is really well automated and it's super easy for you to ship code, it's gonna be easy to bring someone, even someone who's junior on board and get them to a place where they can ship code. So for Dev environments, again, automation, have the last person who set up the Dev environment help the new person. They know all the pitfalls, they just did it. They just had to go through setting up the development environment. You don't need a senior engineer. You don't need someone who knows a lot about, I don't know, some other random thing. This is just the Dev environment setup. So the last person who joined does Dev environment setup. Have them ship small changes as soon as possible. If you can have someone deploy on the first day, that's awesome. That means you have really good automation tools. Third, journaling and note-taking. Have them start taking notes. Three things that they learned this week. For junior engineers, this is gonna be really important. They're probably not gonna know a lot of things and you're gonna be surprised at what they do and don't know. So having them take notes that you can talk about once a week is really great. And then finally, a social event. And a social event is actually a really good activity even for people who are not junior. A social event is just, we're gonna hang out. I'm gonna learn everyone on my immediate team's name because if I wanna ask a question, it's really nice to know that person's name. And I'm gonna feel more comfortable talking to the other people on my team. Because a huge amount of what you need when you're new, regardless of level, is just the ability to go talk to someone else on your team. All right, week two. Week two, you can start throwing more information at your new engineer. The first week is so overwhelming a lot of times that things just go in one ear and out the other. So I recommend doing history of the company and team map second week. So history of the company, where did the company come from? Why was it started? Who are the founders? What was the reason that it got here? What's some of the pitfalls that have happened along the way? Why do we target the markets that we target? And a team map, which seems really simple, but just giving them a map. Like this is Bob. Bob sits over there. Bob is really good at Redis. He deals with all of our asynchronous task queues. So go talk to him about that. Or like so and so is really good at building fully fledged feature products. They have a great design sense, but they're also good at building front end features. So knowing those things is super helpful to new engineers. Shadowing and code labs are good activities to get started the second or third week. Shadowing is what it sounds like. Have them sit down with someone who's more senior, either mid-level or senior, whatever you wanna do, and watch what that other person does. What kind of keyboard shortcuts do they use? What type of bash commands do they use? What does that bash command do? Why are they doing all of the things that they're doing? They can learn and absorb a lot of information just by watching other people for an hour, either once a week or every day if you wanna be really aggressive. Code labs are something that was started at Eventbrite. Basically it's kind of like a new engineer AMA. So it's this safe space, emphasis on the word safe, no judgment.  It's totally fine if they wanna ask concepts that might seem really beginner, but they can just ask one of the engineers at your company anything. So you can rotate the engineers, people with different expertise can come in, but really what you want for the person running a code lab is someone who makes people feel safe. Again, if people are terrified of asking questions, they're not going to ask questions. Week three, now we start to get into some of the higher level stuff. One on ones, goal setting, feedback, presentations. One on ones, most companies have totally gotten into the idea that you need to do these now, but weekly one on ones are really important. Emphasis on weekly. Having channels for feedback for easy communication is so important. If someone runs into an issue, the overhead, for telling someone who's more senior about this problem that they've run into is really high. Having to schedule a meeting to give someone bad news is one of the worst things that anyone has to do. So creating these channels for constant feedback is really important. Even if every week they're like, I'm doing great. I really have nothing to talk about. That's totally fine. This is still a really good thing to do. Goal setting and feedback. It might seem really silly and simple and kind of like second grade. What are your goals for this? But people are goal oriented and they do really well if they set goals. In the next three months, I would like to learn more about how to build features in JavaScript. In the next six months, I'd really like to learn how to build the API layer for the features that I built in JavaScript. Presentations. The best way to learn something is to teach it. This has been proven over and over again. So force your new engineers to do five minute presentations on topics. I want you to present on regular expressions. Tell us everything that you can figure out about regular expressions. Do a short presentation on them. Teach us regular expressions. And by the end of that presentation, they'll know how to use regular expressions. By the way, I give this talk at RailsConf, which is Ruby. And I totally didn't even think about what I'd written on this slide here. But multiple people at the end came up and they were like, you do know that that was in Python, right? I was like, I'm like, yeah, Python is awesome. They noticed. All right, week four. Week four is review concepts, check in regularly, elective shadowing, and start co-pilating a larger project. So basically now you're just kind of getting set into like a rhythm. You wanna be able to check in with them. You want them to feel as though they can talk to you. Shadowing can become elective. Hopefully they have enough confidence now to say, oh, I wanna shadow that person and learn that thing and go set it up themselves. Co-pilating a larger project is a little bit like Driver's Ed. They can do this with someone who's much more senior, but the senior person really has an emergency break on their side. So they can give them tasks. Actually, the way I like to do it is if you put them with someone who's more senior, they do all of the grunt tasks. The senior person doesn't wanna do all of these, I don't know, grunt tasks that are too trivial for them, but just work that has to get done. But that is really valuable learning for someone who's junior. They've never seen any of it before, so it's exciting. So, you get these really great pairings of someone who's very senior and someone who's very junior and the junior person's running around doing all the grunt work and super excited about it and the senior person is thrilled that they don't have to do the grunt work anymore. All right, beyond, if onboarding has gone well, hopefully this comes and it's really easy. You just check in on progress. You tailor projects and code labs to their needs. You start doing informal apprenticeships and you start doing assessments and hopefully those assessments are positive. Apprenticeships, that has to do a little bit with what I talked about, just being taken under someone's wing. The best way to learn is from imitating someone who's really good at something. In fact, they find that that's true with athletes. Athletes who are put under someone who's really good and much more experienced at the sport will learn it at a faster rate. So, just put them around people who are good at this that they can watch and imitate and follow. If you put them with someone who has bad practices, and I've seen this happen and it's a pet peeve of mine, if you put them with someone who's senior but who has really bad practices and that junior person picks up those bad practices and you punish that junior person for the bad practices that they picked up from the person that you paired them with, that is a really bad experience. So, a lot of times we let senior engineers get away with behavior that we wouldn't let junior engineers get away with, be cognizant of that. So, know what bad practices some of your engineers might be passing on to junior engineers and don't punish them for it, just explain to them why that's bad or put them with someone who has a really good practice in that area. Assessment is really important. People's trajectories are gonna be wildly different.  Some people are gonna plateau, some people are gonna be really up and down. So, having a plan for assessment is important. As we said before, technical ability is not the only category to assess. There's confidence, there's code quality, communication, judgment, and technical knowledge. Judgment is one of the bigger ones. It's slightly more difficult to assess, but if you can hire people who have great judgment, you can trust them to do things, even if they're really junior, that are going to be good. And the example of this is one of my friends at Hersey Social, the last company I was at, she worked in support for a long time and she taught herself engineering on the side. So, when she first started engineering, by every definition, she was very junior at engineering, but she knew the product inside and out. She knew the customers inside and out and she knew exactly what needed to be built in any given situation. In other words, she had excellent judgment. So I could give her tasks, tasks that, I mean, they were pretty simple, but she might take a little bit longer on, but when she came back to me with the feature that she had built, I was like, yes, this exactly solves the problem that we wanted to solve. This is awesome, you've saved us all time. Conversely, engineers with bad judgment will build terrible things very quickly for your site and then you're like, no, no, please don't merge that and you're like taking code out. So, judgment is something that's really, really great if you can find it in someone and it's hard to assess, but I recommend that as something to look for in junior engineers. All right, the main takeaways. Onboarding aims to make new team members confident, productive and independent. If you focus on these three things and you really try to get people to that place, you're gonna have successful engineers most of the time. It benefits everyone in the long run. The individual gains skills, the company is more productive, the team is more productive, and diversity is better at your company. And finally, anyone can be involved in onboarding, so you don't have to be super senior. Getting everyone involved will spread out the load, it'll make it easier to onboard new engineers and for startups who don't have resources, it's gonna make it possible to hire junior engineers. And since there's two ways to get great engineers at your company, stealing them or making them, it's good to have channels for making engineers. And that's it.


And I am live apparently I Was just noticing something's behind me. I moved a chair and I was that little Right about there a little chair in the background, you know, I try to remove distractions But I don't know should I get up and move the distraction will it bother somebody who knows? Let's see here Get all I didn't have my mouse moved over some in front of this screen my really big screen is just off-screen here And I have a normal 1080 screen over here, so Let's see boy people are from all over the place Hello, hello lots of people saying hello Yes very much remember a few live streams go people saying where they're from it's truly a global audience I always find this interesting because there are so many people, you know, Northwest, Arkansas Canada Toronto specifically UK Drumroll, let's see Germany CA Memphis NYC Carnival Freedom cruise operating over a satellite connection Neat Sweden all over the place. This is always so cool and Z Riverside It's funny the more the closer people are the the more detail they give me like specifically not just Michigan or the United States but Sterling Heights, Michigan, which is about 30 minutes or so north of me, so that's relatively close Could you please detail things replicate your studio setup? I actually have a studio tour and within that studio tour is a link But I can drop the link in here while I'm at it But I have a link in it and it has all of my It has not just my studio gear. It's got some of my I'm drop this link right here Now share it over here But yeah, I try to make sure people anyone who's interested in any of the stuff I have Chrome tab I Have a kit link that's in all of my links It just brings you to my kit.co and then from kit.co There's a lot of things like these are just all the details for lenses I'm using and things I'm using within the studio here So yeah, there's just there's a lot of stuff in there and honestly I use it to help keep track of all those things It's just a long list of parts that I have in here So I'm trying to think I'm not really using this anymore The Behringer I Don't use that much. That's actually my friends. It actually wasn't mine anyways But when people ask I've given the same link in old videos and like these are the different things you've seen me using Currently right now. I'm using this Sony camera and I also still have in This link right here works. This is the Canon C100. It's my studio camera when you see things from the other angle It's an old camera But people ask like hey, it looks good. I'm like, yeah, you can this is What what's his name? He's reviewed them recently Some of these older studio cameras because you can get them used and they work great. So yeah You're a dentist and you just pull the tooth Very cool It is amazing that you can watch to the live stream from the middle of a cruise ship.  So Yeah, so that's um She could she could come down here if she was bored and wanted to come visit Just have to be all the way upstairs. But yeah, I let's go actually to the kit link just in general and for those that are wondering now the It has some of the project builds we've done. I need to do this more But this is like all the network here we use and where can you find it? We talked a little bit about 3d printers. So we threw links up here for people wondering about it This is an old video and unfortunately this project's abandoned, but you know what the cameras are cool Hot sauces we try to keep this up to date some of the cameras we like for Surveillance this question comes up a lot because I was just talking about Synology 9 and people are like, well, what do you use? I'm like right here These are some of the cameras that we have like these Amcrest ones were recently featured in my video on Synology, so you know these questions come up all the time. Oh Yes, don't take too long. It's beautiful outside. Hey, we can actually show that right now This is a feature. Where did they go? It is super nice out here and my Synology surveillance station version 9 We can we can see just how nice it is you can see the plants We can see that the birds are Bombing my truck So that's a that's a thing Let's see But we're actually here to talk a little bit more about things like True nas and Actually true nas and something else here. Let me pull this up first I haven't got to switch it yet to this I mean log in Put it back in the stream here Some of you may have seen that there's some new features in PF sense Actually, we make this bigger so it's a little easier for people to read but this is the 2205 beta of PF sense and I'm doing gonna be doing some demos I'm really excited about what we're doing in PF sense including Really really integrating ZFS as part of it. They're gonna have entire boot environments Right in the snapshot. So that's gonna be really cool Definitely something I'm excited about because it's going to allow recovery in really clever ways for doing things remotely And I'll be doing a video soon on the scenarios as soon as I get the system reformatted for that I keep seeing people push the Amcrest for in the Doha seems better now I'm almost confused by that statement because the night performance I showed how good it is especially the low light color and There's also a few people. I don't know this because I don't have a Doha camera handy A few people told me Amcrest and Doha are different firmware for some of the same hardware I don't know that to be true. I just get that in the comments I've we like the Amcrest ones in the low light performance is actually really good on them And I did some comparisons of looking at different things online I Every time I looked at some of the Doha ones I didn't see them in stock when I was doing my testing and we tested Amcrest and I think some of the real link ones the Amcrest really did beat them out for low light performance But I guess it really depends on the model camera use That's why I'm always implicitly specific of what model with my kit links for which ones I'm using Recently decommissioned old juniper and put in a unified switch best decision I take Unify has nothing that can replace my pfSense. No, the Unify is not caught up with pfSense in terms of firewall features Yes, this is a problem the birds the birds It's nice having trees. It's less nice having birds sometimes. I actually like the birds when they chirp I don't like when they poop Uh people start going to share a screen when they ask for help and here you are sharing screen studio and outside Yeah, I can just jump between all these things Amcrest for sure beats real ink. Yes My wife with the emojis Looking to build a new server how a support coming for 12th generation intel and free nas I don't know Um, there is a forum There's a section of the forum over at IX systems the true nas forums Where it's called will it true nas and people discuss in depth some of the hardware things on there so There's uh forums for that but I need to reload this so I can get the boot environments Uh set up on here because this is going to be the really cool feature in pfSense and the new beta that they're talking about Is these new boot environments? Um, this is going to use zfs snapshots to create boot environments One for fast recovery two So there's always a snapshot available of the previous boot environment before the change and they're really easy to make That way before you start making changes you can choose the boot environment and that's uh gonna be a pretty cool feature So that's something. Um, it's gonna be pretty exciting with the new pfSense The other thing that they're coming out with and I don't think it's I haven't looked at it at all in here But it's going to be basically so you have Um, you know, let me pull up the blog post because it'll be easier to do from that But this is the exciting feature that they've got going on You gotta find the link to pull it up. So let's go here Switch it back over to this It's called dco for open vpn data channel offload The data channel offload into free bsd in the upcoming release of pfSense Open vpn dco allows for huge performance games And let me find a graphic that I can throw in here to give you an idea of how much faster Uh, this is Let's see. Where is it here? These are some of the uh test speeds with some of the linux servers So here's that dco speed versus your Uh standard client server tunnel speed. So you're seeing some pretty substantial speed gains Uh more than double Granted, this is the testing still but this is where it's going to be exciting this whole dco feature They're building into it It's going to be that's going to be a pretty big jump because you're talking about bringing open vpn into The wire guard speed realm and open vpn is obviously really well supported when it comes to user management and integrations So this is going to be a big upgrade path. That's uh, definitely pretty exciting Any chance to video on ninja policies the way you configure them? Uh They have all kinds of Like contact them their support people will help you configure all of those things So they they have like his best practices this kind of comes down to the way you manage your environment um I will talk to them too because I am friends with the media creation people there if you didn't know I was just on one of the ninja one Vents along with a lot of other great people sharing some knowledge, but uh, yeah Something it's not really good or specific to my channel But maybe i'll work with them to suggest they create some more content around that but they go through their knowledge library They have a lot of stuff written up in there already How can I back up my acme search so I can reload pf sense with zfs more easily? The search to get backed up with your uh backup file. So there's nothing you really have to do there Is when you create the backup file out of pf sense the certificates are in there as well Oh, let's see Can I email someone who has an external email address if my email address is internal? I I don't know the context of that question Not sure I can answer it. I thought true nas used to have beam repository built You know if that plugin went away or if it never existed um You know, I don't use beam so I don't know but let's log into my true nas and maybe we can answer that Is there a plugin for beam? Pulling it up. I should probably just share the screen, right? Let's see I guess I still don't know why they took away my feature. I used to be able to switch and share this tab instead I don't know why that feature is gone I liked it before when I could just share that particular one. So let's go ahead and share this tab So I don't see beam in here Is beam in this list Nope, I don't see it I'm not a beam user. So I don't know much about how you set up beam So does beam need a plugin? I thought you just pointed it towards The storage. So I don't know I know they're beam certified But can't you just point beam towards the storage mount or am I wrong about how beam works? At least I'm not a beam user. So Should there be any issues swapping neckate hardware between pf sense and linux? I don't understand that question because pf sense runs on bsd. So I don't understand your question Uh, I don't remember where I found this image and it's I actually I think this image might be just built into stream Yard the background I have in here Um, I'm not exactly sure I'd offer to you if I knew a way to send it, but I don't know. I think it's built into stream yard It's just some I uploaded some of the backgrounds, uh, because we can you can actually change them in here But yeah, should there be any issues swapping pf sense linux in the back. Um, hmm Has any experience video is restricted message from edge chrome watching vlog Thursday I have not seen that but I've had someone ask me before so I know the problem exists, but I don't know why Someone said that before and I don't have any restrictions on mine. So I purposely when you're setting it I there are ways you could restrict videos like I could say like over 18 only but I don't even check any of those things All right, someone says there was no beam plugin. It's just a supported repo target When you organize, how did you find initial? Clients, this is the biggest question. Um, me and brett have a new video. We're going to be uploading to business technicalities Uh soon we already recorded it. It's got to get edited and uploaded. Um, I did hire an editor today So I have I have someone finally for the first time someone's going to help me editing some things So I can hopefully get sucked on faster But it's all about getting out there and networking with people meeting going to business associations going to Whatever the business associations are in your area, whether that's chambers of commerce and things like that That's that's the biggest legion When I started that's still the big legion today Um 20 years almost of having my business and It's still the way we get leads technically I started my company in 2003. So next year is going to be 20 years. So yeah I point my beam to an smb share on my p. Well, yeah on your true nas. Yes That's how I would have envisioned it working. I don't know what Beam needs is a plugin. I always thought you just told beam like you loaded the software and you told us a storage target Is a Mobotix a known camera. I have not heard of it So I but I'm not an expert on all things camera. So I can at least say I haven't heard of it So maybe it's not popular I actually learned from another youtube friend that there's Some of the cases that are made in germany pc cases that are unique to there, which I thought was cool. So What's the best network protocol to network with people? Ah It's a handshake protocol. I'll say that, you know that I'm not I'm not really partial on the handshake You know, I'm more of a fist bump, but I Some people really insist on a handshake. So carry hand sanitizer. I really prefer the fist bump. So Fun tip that when you're Believe it or not people who meet me in person figure this out really quick.  What interesting things do you do? And if you start the conversation like that, it's better. So yes How do you back up windows server with ads rolls? We take entire images of windows servers generally When it you know depending on the situation if we have the server virtualized awesome Well, we're gonna do you know entire virtualization backups If not, uh, we'll have backup softwares to create full images of the server The backup button downloads a file that can extract seven of one of our I think last time I ran a manual backup It is download config file uh You mean are you talking about pf sense still in pf sense So back back You just go to diagnostics backup restore So So you go to diagnostics backup restore see eventually I'll have someone who can jump between screens That's what I know. I'm fancy is when I have someone who can work the screens behind the scenes for me, right? Anyways, I have a whole video. I'm back up and restoring pf sense so As I'm going to be a problem with db and sent to ace on neck gate hardware than putting pf sense fix some testing I have I don't see any problem with that at all load them with whatever you want. Um, if it's You can go back and forth just format the drive How old was I I started my business? I will pull up a calculator because I don't have that answer, but I know how to calculate it Since I figure out what my calculator open two three minus Are you just trying to figure out when I was born? I was I was 27 when I started my business Good afternoon So a great pickup line now it's an icebreaker line not really a pickup line More people saying oh you're catching up yet beam doesn't need a plug in Hardware recommendations building a firewall to match my 10 gig of internet speeds um That's a little tougher Look at what net gate offers and either a buy a net gate appliance or b buy a server with similar specs that they have Um to get 10 gig internet. The there's some challenges routing at 10 gig Per stream you can do multiple streams and get 10 gig no problem But single stream speed over 10 gig is a little bit more challenging So that hopefully makes sense What else did we have if you don't make sure I miss any questions? All right tomato potato yes Uh pf sense. Yeah, I'm excited about all the um Things that are coming in here. What is there anything else that I wanted to mention inside of here? I bounced back and forth between things. I also want to mention um I guess I got to log back into this Log in and out of too many things This is my production one. This is live. This is where all of my uh video editing is being done But I'm on that the new I'm there's doing back in here Chunas 13 release I did the video on this the other day A couple good things though is I also joined the live stream with the chris more and the team from IX systems And uh, there's a few more good things coming. They they wouldn't you know engineers, right? They wouldn't commit to a date when a couple features are going to be added But there's definitely more speed enhancements to smb coming Later this year and they're working on optimizations for true nas scale. So that's another thing you know true nas scale is uh awesome because It's all going to be based on what it is based on linux is based on debian But they're also doing a lot of speed enhancements on there too So that's definitely um exciting things to come This is actually another thing that's um people run into There's speed tests when you're doing raw speed But when you start writing to the drives If your internet connection is fast enough You could exceed the speed of your drive downloading at 10 gig if you have an older hard drive That is a potential thing Other thing worth noting is There's hops in between that may restrict and not allow you to have as much bandwidth that either, you know, they As people get these faster home connections. There's going to be more Things happening in between at each one of the hops where they may restrict a single stream speed To conserve bandwidth. So I heard that you're using pf sense and windows servers that best have windows server to the dns Uh Is this true if you're running windows inside a hypervisor? It's true if you want Um active directory to work properly that you will have active directory Uh hand and windows handling all the dns So if you're using ad and you want it to work properly have windows be the dns server I don't care if windows is virtual. I don't care if windows is running on bare metal hardware You want to have those things together or you will have problems Windows active directory is going to want dns inside of itself. Yes Can someone Talk about a way to do it. You'll find somebody in a form go, but there's this way you can do it. Yes There's hacky workarounds for it. But if you want to do things properly Um, then that's the whole thing Oh, yeah, go ahead and smash the like button. Um I got 170 viewers 35 likes. So if you guys can smash that like button, that'd be great You're leaving dead or I remember for ninja one, uh, how are you and the team liking ninja one? Now they've been on it for about half a year. We still love it. We haven't had any problems. Uh, well, we did Um, they were minor and it was some confusion. So when you're using the backups Ask them about the trim option, which I think all the documentation is updated now If you don't have the there's something about and I'm not the expert on this particular thing But my staff is uh, there was something about the trim option of how it truncates things And it's just a checkbox in the backups. That's all so when you're setting them up Make sure they're set up properly. If not, you'll end up with a bunch of inflated storage. That's all there was some inflated storage problem I believe they've updated their documentation Uh, to make sure it's a little bit more clear for setting things up But that's a really minor complaint because it wasn't at all a risk of data loss It was just too much data being not trimmed some of the old uh backups So yes, I'm still really happy with ninja one I'm gonna process the second tp linkomata network. All right tp linkomata Can I use pf sense instead of the edge router? Yes, you can uh It would be the appliance that decides my vlanes and ip address So you still have what you end up with if you're not using the tp link routing You have to define the vlanes in pf sense and then you have to define them in omata It's the same way you define them in unify you define them in pf sense you define them in the omata done It's as simple as that I have older getting started with true dance server videos I have lots of incremental videos that show you how to do specific functions I'm working on newer ones of getting started with true nas so that can be covered as well bash like button Yes, the guys that I asked in a two step around your questions Little bit I gotta put a good forum post together on there They have to know about the gl problem because if you search the forum There's a lot of people without answers on it So i'm gonna do a couple network card tests one with chelsea and one with ix systems and show some of the network issues That are created by certain jails and maybe there's i'm doing it wrong But i'm doing it the default way so if the default way is wrong it should be updated After true nas 13 upgraded the pool in production. Did you Do you know what is missing if you don't know right away? I did upgrade the pool and I don't know what's missing So every everything seems to work. So I don't see anything missing in it So as far as I know, it's all working. Looks like it's working. So I don't have any I don't have any errors The tasks are still working right here I have a backup task that keeps kicking off and it keeps doing what it's supposed to do Is that taking provision po n or is it di a? If it's po a because you're sharing that tingy with everyone on your fiber segment Yeah Can we vote on you said but he only is pepperoni. So there's no voting on pizza toppings Have you noticed that zero trust securities as great as this requires a lot more technical knowledge and time to troubleshoot Billion customers is difficult with increasing knowledge required uh Everything is requiring more and more technical knowledge. That was that's been a real challenge. Like, you know The technical debt is real the technical knowledge it takes to run an it company is increasing The barrier of entry to start a proper managed services company is higher now than it was before Just due to the number of things you need to know So there's there's going to be a lot of changes that keep coming into market From all of this but yeah, this is a this is an issue. So There's no way to pull from windows machines as backup and true nas There's no native good. Well, there's different software out there But there's no amazing good software that ships with true nas I mean, there's tools like beam that you can use or just beam. I think a cigar backup there's a lot of paid commercial software And you could then, you know load that backup software and use true nas as a storage target That's frequently what our clients do when they use true nas that you just use it as a storage target I have our tfm But I can't find the answers the way p of sense is that separate dns for separate networks I want to route the guests through open dns for added filtering So you don't set it inside a pf sense You in the dns you set it in pf sense under dhcp And what you do is for each segment and actually I can pull it up. It's actually pretty easy to do 9 2 and 6 8 3 dots for Sign back into it Nope, that is not the right one. I think it's the Where's it at? What IP? Oh, what do you see is look at these IP addresses less mixed up There we go So if you go in a dhcp server For each network you have a separate dhcp server And you just specify the dns server there So You can do it on a per dhcp server. So the clients on that network get a different uh dhcp I'll get a different dns via dhcp. So that's the solution to that problem Um Beyond meat has pepperoni, you know, if I didn't tell him maybe but I tell you what there. I can't remember the name of it. There's a um, there's a beef jerky A vegan beef jerky that I think is better than almost any other beef jerky I've had. I absolutely love it Um, and my son loves it too. So I don't care You know, actually a few of my employees like it one of my employees made a statement He goes I'm just pretending this is real meat because it tastes so good He goes because some people can't believe how good some of these meat substitutes are and I'm like, yeah I can't tell so I don't have any problem with it as long as you get the pepperoni flavor I am fine. Like is if it tastes like pepperoni, I don't care if it's real pepperoni Actually the impossible whoppers nailed it man salt sugar fat grilled. That's all you really need I don't care where it came from. Hell. I think it's probably better than whatever was in some of that So right about tech knowledge, uh, mostly cloud related spending a large part of my day Just keeping up and separating the good the bad the ugly. Yeah, there's it's um You're chasing a lot of knowledge all the time in this and I I try to you know work with other people and we try to remember That these are communities that we're trying to build me jay and many of my friends that are on youtube and then outside of youtube in the It services communities When we do these events like the one that was at chicago or when I participated with ninja on an event Follow me on twitter if you're wondering where I post about these events They're all about knowledge sharing and trying to bring everyone's knowledge up and we do these in live streams There was 700 people on that live stream.  Uh, I think there was 16 or 17 of us sharing knowledge We broke it all down into sessions a couple of us per session. So yeah, it's a lot You set the dhc to hand out to set our dns to the clients in each scope. Yes You also can do outbound net rules to force all 53 to a certain destination See cori knows how to do it the advanced way as well technically on a per network basis You could create rules that redirect their dns requests somewhere else That way even if they don't take your dns servers, they can be redirected provided they go out port 53. That's a caveat But there's more than one way to do it And uh, yeah travis was on the um, Tuesday conference. So yes Uh me me and uh jason slagal gets some bragging rights We did we did our talk and not by a big margin by 1 percent We beat we had the we got voted the best talk so we can we were a lot We told we were told we can publicly brag about that I'm having issues of windows discovery over a wire guard vpn any insights. Uh, what windows discovery? Maybe i am not the best windows person by the way. I have people Several of them that work for me that do the windows troubleshooting. I am more disconnected from windows. Um than ever so I I don't know the answer to that Oh, I think we need an update if the mrs. Got her way with sushi after that we shamed. Yes, uh, she got sushi Have you done a video on configuring pf since with a public ip and a block of five ip's? um Yes, it's just i have a multi wan ip video You just assign them all as virtual ip addresses on the wan and then from there you can assign them to whatever you want ha proxy or Different things you don't really need to use use nat. Don't use one-to-one unless you really have to Um, that's the better way and there's good write-ups or documentation covers this quite well dns filtering really doesn't do much since changing the dns So it's setting a trivial on all os and if you don't block out going 53 Then it'll stop anything even with dns on tls. Yeah, and more things are used like dns over hdbs Uh, and as things use that you're now You know bypassing more things I have storage server on friends network and want to use it as an off-site backup location with vm with that Be a way to connect to them Uh, I would do it over a vpn not over public network. So yeah, just use a vpn So vpn is the way to go quit publicly exposing things Yeah, bloomeria, uh bloom bloom era their local company in an arbor and arbor is local to me and travis We we are both michigan people I saw you read insurance. My free nest is not directly connected to the net. Do I need to upgrade to free nest I mean It's up to you. I always like running the latest version But if you want to stay in the old version, I mean, there's definitely a whole lot of flaws because there were flaws in 12 Uh, a lot of them around smb. So It it comes down to your risk risk tolerance You know, are you worried about something getting in your network and then laterally? uh escalating a privilege um Escalation problem because it was something, you know a flaw within samba those have been patched Over the time and it depends if you're worried about those. So that's that's more of a question for you I mean, is the risk there? Yeah, so it comes down to your risk tolerance You can manually load it. Uh, it's not There's not any major security fixes in version 13. So they're forcing it right now They just released it like yesterday or the day before so it's it's all of two days old So it it won't show up just yet, but you can manually load it You can download the manual update file and switch to it. There's there's instructions under download for that So it's not implicitly required that you update to it. Um But it is the future version Yeah, if you're not using smb and you have the service turned off you've reduced your threat surface on that Um, so I don't remember I you'd have to go through the details. I don't recall any major bugs in nfs But I'm not saying I don't there isn't any I'm saying I don't recall them That's that's a distinction in case you do find one. Uh, most of the problems though that I remember more distinctly are going to be flaws in smb Yeah, the the there's been a whole lot of stuff found in samba lately. That's been kind of broken Um, you know, it's one of those things you find a little problem turns out there's a few more and uh bugs are hard to You think you got them and then you find a few more again. So there's been a few updates around samba You know, we're all tried to forget that freeness correll version 10 That was the version we don't talk about for people wondering how things went from 9 to 11 Um, yeah 10 just didn't happen. We're just gonna say it didn't happen It did happen. It there's there's a big uh crater where that that version kind of is but Yeah Wire guard versus open vn. What's your fur? So it really it depends on the use case There's not an answer that is one or the other for site to site vpn between two firewalls wire guards great For my phone connecting home wire guards great for my users That I need to have logs of when they got here when they logged in and um, Transactional data related to that open vpn all the way because it's got a user manager. So, uh user management Is an important thing you have to track and log the users That's a little bit harder in in wire guard the way the authentication works This is a different methodology because you're managing everything with keys not users So for user based vpn, I use open vpn Can pf sense work? In ha with ce yes Yeah, nobody misses that whole v10 There's a story behind there and I don't know all of it I really don't and um, it just it came out and everything was broken and everyone's like don't go there and it didn't migrate you to 11 it took you off the path Uh, there because there wasn't any you could go from 9 to 11, but you couldn't go from 10 to 11. I think there was some bug Um, it's been a while. So that's that was a number of years ago I just wanted a few videos I took I don't take I take some old videos down because of your relevance Um, but I did take that one down I didn't want anybody looking for the links to that because I didn't want anyone to try after I realized how bad it was I'm like back up Back up. We don't want that. We don't want that version but none the less People are still I'm looking sometimes because people are still guessing and I I'm gonna pull up the twitter post as well because this is fun And this is the this is the picture for uh today So we'll drop this over here It's over here And share this over here So there's there's a lot going on in this photo and uh more people are commenting I just got a message from my friend trying to I'm having them guess where I'm at so That's uh Lots of fun stuff there. It's I'm waiting on a legal department I was looking to see if I got a reply to that because I could I talk about it now if the legal department says yes We did a project for uh client so Nope, nothing from legal yet We always ask permission not forgiveness. Um, you know, I've joked and hey everyone likes saying let's ask for Uh forgiveness not for permission But when you have clients who are paying you to do a project Well, they're not you can film certain things inside projects uh and talk about it So, uh, I I was able to take a picture. I got permission for this picture And it there's a lot going on here, but I want to talk about the project itself We did a bunch of uh the work for an event So the event is not live yet So they have a lot of privacy around it until the event goes live And I may have to wait till after the event goes live before I can talk about it. So Oddly yes mac pros Mac pros for sure. Yes the infamous trash can boxes I don't use kubernetes or open shift not really part of my daily workload Did have some bad timing today doing uh aggregation between two fibers and a usw us to a pro need to do this with no production. Yeah Not everything in production goes well Yeah, those mac pros were just weird Uh, they were like who thought the trash can mac was a good idea Pull up an old image of it actually Where's a try to find um I like this particular image There we go Yeah, I think when it first came out. I had I had posted some pictures like of garbage cans that look like this they were just so Yeah Was informed that I need to implement a captive portal that requires you to enter an email address check that email address Under code checked wi-fies any ideas for unify There's a bunch of third-party companies that offer that. Um I don't know I I don't none of them I don't love any of them and I always hate captive portals, especially ones that uh require that the harder you make a uh captive portal or your internet connection the less people use it unless they absolutely have to use it because there's no other option so Who thought any mac was a good idea? Yeah This week you've been shifts migrating all the data from main synology to our gw cloud And comcast is running connection. So it's taking forever. Yeah, that's a problem Read the details. This is going to be a big thing all these companies are going to come out with faster and faster interconnections But they're all going to end up being throttled so It's the thing It's a problem Hey Good to see true nas on here the uh their live stream was good for those of you that didn't uh participate in it Um, I went I went in there and had a couple questions for them So I need to do a forum post about the jail problem But my overall like, you know, I said in my video yesterday about true nas 13 is it's gone really really well We actually built some more true nas servers. We have a lot of them at my office now We got some projects we're working on because I want to do a whole getting started with true nas So I gathered up random things to build true nas and Some of the training I do actually starts with my staff. I go over things with them having them build it The questions they ask are helpful when I'm when setting it up because then it's more Information I know I need to add to my video. So yes We're excited about all the features coming at true nas and uh true nas scale Um, that's we have some true nas scale systems we built so I can do more testing Is I need to get started on the videos on them because they're a little different So now I have two product lines. I got to cover which is fun Mkbhd uses them as planners. That's funny. You have the facebook thing. There's another option I never work on max. That's not really my thing Morning from the land down under Actually, that was my consulting was this morning Uh, my first consulting gig was with a really cool media company in australia. So They're um, they have some data problems and I'm hoping to solve them with true nas. This they're going to be they they create I forget if it's 20 terabytes for each project It was something incredible that they have to process So I have to wrap my head around all the data problems they have and put together a true nas solution for them. So yeah Very cool. I like working with them the the time difference is the problem sometimes like it's early morning for you Um for them because it was the first thing this morning. They like were staying up really late to meet with me If I have a strategy with eight different drives to store movies tv shows and files, it's better to make one drive or four two drive pools I would um, probably build it all in one pool True nas hardware if I have a raid z1 with five spinning drives ssd log ssd cache sd vinter meta SMB seems to be stuck at 520 over 10 gig of net Yeah, there's gonna You know spinning drives have limitations on how fast you can move data SMB has some processor. Look at the processor usage This is one of the questions I had for the true nas team and there's um, you know More and more efficiencies are slowly being built into smb But there's still the processor plays a role in how fast that can be transferred so look at the processor and Start do some calculations with how fast the hard drives can stream data That's another factor in there too That's why a little bit of a source gather up some stuff and build not like you can do that Uh and get a muraki going. No not really one muraki I'm gonna give the stream 10 more minutes. Um Before I wander off. Let's see any more questions before I wander off in 10 minutes There's me and the wife are going to go enjoy that Wonderful outside Sometimes I leave the basement.  I have not tested melanox ones But head over to their true nas forums and they have that whole forum where people discuss hardware Is it a bad thing to get a stornator for my home lab? I mean, why not? If you need more sure need more of it What's the best tv show to watch? You know, I really liked that. Um What was it uh Severance severance was really good that I think apple produced it Um where they have a dual life in the office severance I watched that series and I liked it a lot more than I expected. So Do you need a dedicated dedu drive if you have 512 gigs ram from my understanding Your story is she a palm boot loaded into memory anyways um It it could be helpful. Um It kind of depends on how much deduping you're doing So Do I drive any atvs? I have motorcycles off-road motorcycles How to bypass someone's dns bill while using ad as a dns server? um I don't know. I don't know if I have an easy answer for that one Do you uh, do you know if the ui yfa also raps are in production? Oh, do you have any of my input? Yes, I am using them. That's what I'm actually running for my own What is the is rsync the preferred way to back up a linux computer to churnass? Yes, uh, there's also There's a tool called it's in um It's the backup utility inside of The uh, it's booted into event two I can't remember the name of it. It's the backup utility built into event two Um, that's another option as well. You can use that one or you can just use rsync The it's it's got a name that I can't remember because I just open it up and it's open and I don't see its name It's just called like backup. Does it have a name somewhere? I don't know There's a backup utility inside of windows, but yes rsync is great I use syncing myself because I like all my backups in real time Is there some device out there that can use ethernet cables to trace them Uh, without cutting into the cable if that makes sense. Yes, uh, the toners a lot of times will work through the cable Have you had to work on projects where the cuspers have fairly large multicast environments? No, it doesn't come up much not multicast Cloud versus nas the next five years It's so expensive to save things in the cloud Um, when it comes to storage, I don't really see that as going down. I I Think there's just always going to be a parallel for different use cases Um, the company I did consulting with this morning They have egress fees for one project one project is a thousand dollars in egress fees to download at a client They're looking at other options because of that There's it's when you're in the movie and film production business the projects are so big They have to build their own data centers for some of this because storing in the clouds unreasonable for home users Oh, yeah cloud stuff most of the time is fine for the advanced home lab users. It's always going to be a nas I think starting at a q30 would be slick. I'll start a youtube channel and get them to sponsor it Yes, just make a few hundred videos and maybe you can get their attention and maybe they'll sponsor it Go for 13 release for production. Absolutely. Yeah 13 is good for production. It's it's went through its release candidate and everything It's in production mode now Oh, let's see I uh our clone I use it as a function built into true nas, but I'm not really used on linux I think deja dupe. That's the one that's uh comes with there There's also time shift. That's another one on there You are backup exists So the new real links didn't work with the ai stuff interesting It took weeks to get two terabyte photos in the cloud nas isn't going anywhere. Yeah mint has time shift uh Back up and backup tool for home $15 a terabyte no egress Yeah, there's gonna be um some wars going on of how the pricing goes back and forth between the Cloud providers and how they compete. There's no doubt about that so there's I mean, there's great convenience keeping things in the cloud but There's uh, not much there. It's my wife doing Oh, she's planting I was like who's in the camera who's in my front yard I gotta fix my backyard still this is part of a remodel we're gonna remodel the whole backyard So it's not my to-do list We're working on the front yard first because that's what people see when they first get up here Yes, we only got 90 likes and 180 people here. So bash that like button Well, and this is the nuances of it. They had it in the list of cameras But one of the things that's important is not just what's in the list of cameras, but what supports certain things. So it's um You know, whether or not you have The advanced functions in here. So if we do this and we look at where's my driveway camera There we go event detection You know, whether or not these functions are supported is why when I did my video On using the AI detection, I specifically said it works this way with these cameras. These are testing we did Because that information is a little bit more detailed. So I want to make sure I covered that when I was talking about it So would you recommend a 10 gig sfp and an intel x5 50? nick for Or the you know, I haven't compared the um I mean I like sfp cages because they're they're lower wattage and therefore less heat. So I'd probably go sfp I think I have the 520 not the 550s, but I'm sure the 550s are fine It's probably the same driver for both But yeah the um I do like the uh intel card. So these just seem to work quite well But back to this question now. Yeah, make sure you just have to do a little reading and make sure it actually works Oh, this works too. I wonder if I can turn it on while I'm live here This is a cool thing. I've been playing with them. I want to get make sure all the Synology things can be done So we can then I think I just do this And now we should be able to say this There now you can see what things look like from the other side there me looking at me So this is another feature. Um That this has too so you can see around my office now we're I don't know Go around this way. I guess There's all the things around my office But yeah, that's a cool feature that you can tie cameras to it people have asked me about this before It's a way you can take your uh phone and tie it to your Synology as one of the cameras In case anyone's wondering why it says there's a pixel 6 pro in my Synology list TP link are ubiquity. Oh, definitely ubiquity Yeah, SFPs are just great They're cheap. They're easy to connect. You get a DAC cable Um, you don't have to not fiber but the DAC direct attached copper cables work really well I've got a whole video on some of those Oh, let's see I think that's all the questions If I reached the end I got like two more minutes because I added I'm waiting. I was going to go an entire hour So well, I guess it is at an hour So no more questions. So I will I'm going to go outside and do things and enjoy the day a bit I've been working since early DAC works well if it's not on aruba no DAC works well when you're on a system that's uh good compatibility So that's an important aspect of it. But nonetheless, thank you all for joining the live stream awesome, and uh, if I feel real inspired, maybe I'll do a saturday morning one But uh, definitely more videos on the way I have in the link down below go like and subscribe my uh business technicalities channel for all you looking for the business video. So Um, I'm posting more and more on that channel the business technicalities You can connect me on linkedin. I've been building up my linkedin network say hi to me on twitter Join my forums. That's where we have more in-depth discussion on things and I answer a lot more questions So thanks everyone for joining and have a great day