Hwnaeth annog ddod i ni'n gweithio, dweud iddyn nhw'n unrhyw ymlaen o'r hotel ac mae'n siarad o'r diogel oedd o'r tyg mewn oeddi. Dyma'r amgylch ofyn yn gŵr dyma'n cael ei amgylch, rwy'n yn synod i'r Oedd Stig Muckin Tire. Rydyn ni'n rhoi'r Debyn Ddiol yn gwrs. Rwy'n meddwl i fan hynny. Mae'n gwneud o phobl i dda i wedi gwneudio wedi bod chi ddim yn gwneud yr adnod gynnig yma. ac mae'n bwysig yw'r ystafell hynny yn ei bod y dweud y inflwni Gwyrdranol. Nid yn gwneud ddweud o ddigonol, nid yn ei gwneud i gwneud i ddigonol yr ysgol. Onaf, mae'n gwybodaeth byddwn yn grifiteis o ddod yn Grwp Gwyrddranol. Jaime, lle mae'r ystyried bob o'r llunion yng Nghymru, oedd yn gwybodaeth bod y ddweud o gwybodaeth sy'n gwirio. Mae'n gwybodaeth am yr adnodau. Rwy'n cael y cyfnod i'r brif, rwy'n cael ei ffordd, a'r bwysig i'r arwain i'r ddechrau ymhlach, er oeddwn i'n ddim yn ysgolio'n ei cyfnod i'r rhaid o'r ddefnyddio ar gyfer y dyfodol, ond mae'r pethau yma, mae'r dda'r hynny o'ch ddwyf yn ddim yn dda. Rwy'n cael ei ddwy'n cael ei ddwyf yn ddim yn ddwyf yn ddwyf yn ddwyf yn ddwyf yn oes. Rwy'n cael ei ddwyf yn ystod o'r ddwyf yn ddwyf yn oes. Nowre I don't pretend to know everything and as per normal I will write up a summary of what's discussed here. It will help me immensely if people can take notes on what goes on. I've already got a Gobi document started. So quick update when down on port. O64 is our most recent port, first release for Jessie. It's working really well I think. roedd mynd yn ôl hyfforddiant ysgrifennid o'r cyffredinffredd mor hwnnw. Ringwch rhighod hwnnw'n dylun mor cyffredinffredd hwnnw yn ystod. Tawn o'n ddylun yn gweithio, mae'n dynnu ar ddigon nhw pleg. Rwy'n gŵr i ar yr m64 ac yn gyfwilol cyffredd hwnnw. Rwy'n amgylch gyfatholon hwnnw. Rwy'n krifynu ar gweithio ar y dryd. Roedd hynny'n gwybod iawn o'r amgylch cyffredd yn Debyg. There is one. It will work with either DTB or ACP to tell the kernel about the config of your device. You tend to see that the split is more simple. Small devices will still be using device tree. Bigger server boxes, the standards all say they should be doing ACP and most of them do. Sometimes it even works. Felly, onw HF is a bit older, we first released it with Weezy. The details of the ABI are well understood by now, I hope, but I will mention them again. It's a hard-float ABI, so that means that floating-point registers are passed using hardware floating-point registers. Floating-point arguments are passed. The minimum spec is on V7 using the VFPV3D16 set of registers, which is a lovely bit of alphabet soup, which probably doesn't mean much to most people. It means that it is guaranteed to work on any V7 CPU that has hardware floating-point. The vast majority of them do, some of them don't, we try not to talk about those because I think that went dead. We don't depend on Neon because Neon is optional in a number of V7 CPUs, in fact it's optional in V7. There are not many, but sufficient V7 CPUs don't have Neon that we haven't pushed it. Now, one of the nice thing about this ABI is that it was agreed as a standard across all of the distros doing V7. You can take a binary built on Debian, and you should be able to run it on Fedora, Sousa, Gen2, wherever. And vice versa. We have a couple of kernels available. We have the Onmenpeak and all, and we have an RPAE version. If you have your 32-bit machine with oodles of memory, you can actually use it effectively. Again, this all tends to run with device tree. So, in theory, assuming that your SOC vendor has pushed support for their devices upstream, our kernel could well support your device fully out of the box before we even know about it. Potentially. It depends, obviously. OMSF UEFI is a growing thing. If we want to run VMs sensibly of OMSF running on O64, for example, then UEFI will make it reasonably easy to have a working bootloader inside an image. It's much harder to have any of the other firmware and relations or any of the other bootloaders available. So, this is something I'm going to be playing shortly. OEL is our oldest existing port. First release with Lenny many, many years ago. So, it's Softflow TBI. It used to be V4T. In the last year, the baseline has been moved forward to V5TE. That is still very much supported for most things. We had been talking last year and the year before about maybe dropping it before Buster. I have certainly a lot of interest in working on RBL, but other people have stepped up. That's great. So, I know we have at least Adrian and Adrian and Roger. There are probably plenty of other people, too. Apologies if I haven't mentioned your name.  I'm not trying to miss you out. I have concerns occasionally that, I mean, we've seen in the past, and I'm sure we'll see again, that new people, new language on time for whatever may not care about supporting anything older than V7. This can be worked around, it can be fixed, but it can also be quite a bit of work to do. On going, moving forwards, people are going to have to keep on working at this to keep it running. It is well supported for things like the tool chain, no, sorry, for our core tool chain, CNC++ and for the kernel. Other stuff, we're going to have to manage expectations as to what goes in on the L, I think. So, to build these in hardware, we still have, and again, this slide is awesome. It's almost copied word-for-word from last year's. We still have those nice little orange boxes as our core set of build-ease for LHF. Sponsored by Marvell, the R-Milder XP. They're lovely little machines, except they are still deathboards. So, they don't aerocycle without you pushing a button on them if you've removed power, which is a pain. They support, they're fast, they support 4 gigs of ground, they could take more memory, but they only support a single disk. So, we've had a slate of disk failures. As happens, of course, disks are consumables, we know that. But when a disk on one of these things die, it takes a day or so of messing around and swapping a disk and then we're installing. They also don't support neon, and that is something that people do need to care about in R-MHF. We still have one of our older build-ease available in IOMX 53. That is now, I remember at the time when I installed a mini-wack of those, it felt like the future. They were fast and awesome and it had a whole gigabyte of memory. Now, they don't feel so fast. So, you can debug your problems on that machine. Please don't go building a whole tool chain or something on it, it will take a while. For R-64, we have many wider options. Not all of these are yet in use, but I'm hoping to pick some up. We have the old AMD Seattle, so that was the Optron A1100 family. X-Gene was the applied micro CPU that's now been moved on, so Ampere have taken on what is now X-Gene 3. Cavium were there ThunderX, ThunderX 2. Marvell have another CPU at 64-bit, which is going to be in there. People are going to be using full next generation NAS devices and network things, which is in the Macchiato bin. Qualcomm are in this market trying to sell a really big, high-end powerful server, the Centric, using their fold-core CPU. There's the Sincwesa, which is a 24-core Cortex-A53 machine at a CPU or other form associated in Japan. I've got one of those at home, I'm playing with. We have quite a wide range and fingers crossed, some of them will actually make it commercially and we'll be able to just buy them off the shelf. I keep on having my fingers crossed that that will happen soon. So, I'm assuming most of the people here will have seen the discussion triggered about architecture release qualification, in particular to do with supporting the build-ease. DSA don't want to support deathboards anymore as build-ease. Speaking as the person who ends up having to do a lot of the trained monkey things of copying disks and pushing buttons and whatever, because we hosted some of these in the data centre at ARM, I 100% support these guys. It's getting really tedious. So, we already have, as I mentioned, a range of 64-bit build-ease. Also, in the ARM64 machines that we're using as build-ease, and I don't see that being a problem many times soon. We do, however, need new 32-bit, so RML, RHS build-ease. We've had a look for proper 32-bit server machines. I don't think there are any that are worth looking at. I know there's been suggestions of a few odds and so I'll say like NAS boxes and whatever, which are 32-bit. They're whack-mount, but they come with one gigabyte of RAM, maybe two gigabyte of RAM. I don't think it's even worth looking at those machines, as it stands. We did have, do we have a mic down the front? We did have a company, Calzada, who were doing 32-bit ARM server machines, but unfortunately they've gone away.  Be patient for 10 more seconds. So, let's build a 32-bit ARM instruction set on ARM64. Yay, what could possibly go wrong. Now, well, actually there's a few things. Some ARM64 machines won't run a 32-bit binary natively. This might come as a surprise to people who were used to the Intel world, but of course all the AMD64 machines and the Intel equivalent will of course sell on 32-bit software. Well, the reason for that is that in the Intel world there was already this huge corpus of old 32-bit proprietary binaries that if your new 64-bit chip can't run, nobody will buy it. Nobody's interested. In the ARM world it's slightly different. There's not that much 32-bit binary software out there, but the server vendors actually care about in the slightest. So, many of the server vendors have taken a look at the offerings from ARM, have decided now I could have all of the silicon to do the 32-bit instruction decode and whatever, as well as all the 64-bit instructions onto the CPU. Well, that takes up more space. So, rather than doing that, they say, let's just not bother. So it means maybe instead of fitting 20 cores of both into a single CPU, you might get 30 cores of 64-bit only or 48 or something. If you're trying to sell a dedicated server box, the 32-bit story is actually not all that compelling. So, hence, quite a number of those machines that I mentioned, the Centric and Thunder X in particular, don't run 32-bit ARM binary's natively. They can in emulation, but why would you do that? You might as well do that in AMD64. So, some of the machines we have will support it, and I'm already playing with those. So, what I've already done is, and some people will have noticed, ARM01, which is a ARM machine hosted by ARM in our data centre, hence the naming, is actually now a 64-bit machine. It is a Seattle box, so 8 cores, of course, it's a 57, 16. Lovely to you, Wackmount box, will support multiple disks, it's got 10 gig ethernet on board, it's a nice machine, and it's been building ARM HF. Almost immediately, we found, we did find the first problem here. ARM HF traditionally has had alignment fix up enabled in the kernel of all of our buildings. This is how most people run things. ARM CPUs actually do care about alignment, just like the older Spark CPUs, M68K, and a whole bunch of the bigger older architectures. So, what does that mean?  The kernel on ARM HF is configured to pick up and catch that exception, fix it all up in software, and then hand back to userland, so userland doesn't actually know it's happened. Apart from one problem, instead of it just being dealt with automatically on CPU because it didn't need to do anything extra, if the kernel gets involved, you can see this can take factors of hundreds or thousands times longer. There's huge delays going on, while the kernel has to go on picking things in software to deal with the bugs in the software you're running. This is not great. If we actually have a look on the build days, and I saw this, this is triggered all over the place by lots and lots of our code. Now, if we run this on an ARM64 machine, the ARM64 kernel does not include support for that alignment fix up, and things fail. So, we've had a few build failures that have already come out, and we've started reporting bugs. What I've also seen is, G-Lypti in particular fails to build in ARM HF running on ARM64 because of a mismatch with the size of the alternate signal stack. So, a signal stack size does not match between ARM HF and ARM64 when the kernel gets it wrong. This is a real kernel bug, I've reported it to the ARM kernel guys, a fix is going upstream already, and then we can backport it, but at the moment you can't build your libc in ARM HF on ARM64. I've found as well that our Haskell builds for v7 are really badly mis-targeted. Again, they're causing alignment faults at the wazoo. I believe they're targeting ARMv6 and ARMv7, so that means they're using the wrong CPU instructions for doing barriers. Now, barriers in the ARM architecture have gone through quite a range of changes over the last few versions of the architecture. In v4, v5, there was no support on CPU for doing this directly. If you want to get a barrier, you need kernel help. You can do it in v6. I didn't need to interrupt you in the middle of the slide, but could we not take advantage of reproducible builds in this case? In theory, a build on ARM64 should produce the same result as the same build on a 32-bit native machine. Absolutely it should do, and that's something I'd love to do. At the moment, we're actually getting problems building in the first place, and this is one of the things I'm working out. Haskell is mis-targeted, as I said, it's using the wrong barriers. It will run OK on v7, it won't run on v8. You end up with failures with the legal instruction exceptions. This is one of the few times when I won't complain about Haskell needing to be rebuilt every other day, because it means that when we do this fix-up, it would need to be rebuilt anyway. I'm actually doing a complete build of the archive right now on three machines at home. Three of the machines I've already mentioned, the Macchiato, the Sincuesa, and the Seattle. I've managed to get hold of one of each of those machines, and they're sat in my home office doing a rebuild at the moment. I can actually demonstrate just before I came up here. Yes, we're up to of the 28,000-odd packages. I don't know if you can see that at the back. With the 28,000-odd packages that are in the archive, I'm currently up to 21,800. That's taken about three weeks, so in about a week's time I expect I will be able to give the full results. What I want to see is basically what other problems are there that might come out from building on HF on top of on64. I've already mentioned the first three I've found. If we find that there's maybe a few hundred packages with alignment problems, I'm just going to start filing bugs and patches. If it's a few thousand, we're going to have to rethink this approach. At the moment this is just building in on HF to root, the other solution could be, and this links back to what I was saying earlier, we could run on HF virtual machines on top of on64. That does absolutely work. At that point, the guest kernel would do, for example, the alignment fix-ups. It would hide some of these problems. The only issue we're doing that, of course, is at that point we then end up with binaries that we know will not run properly on on64. I think I would actually rather see the effort going in to fix these binaries properly and fix things up. Fixing alignment bugs? Does that also help M68K and Spark, for example? Yes, absolutely. These are real bugs where people have just made invalid assumptions about structural alignments. We've all seen these before. The only reason that people get a free pass for this is because x86 doesn't care. You might think so. x86 will run these binaries. If you have badly aligned code, it will run slower. You should always think about alignment of your structures when you're programming. But lots and lots, particularly, and I've seen some frameworks. I think it was PyPy. Just throw everything in, and of course, because the machines they're working on don't show any problems. Oh, it must be your problem. No, it's not. So, discussion as well. God, I haven't applied more than I am to. What else should we be talking about? What else should we be doing? Hi, I'm from Ubuntu, and we are doing ArmyJF builds with no fix up all the time. And we experience quite a lot of bugs, as many of those. We would be happy to see something done in Debian as well. That would encourage Debian people to pick up our patches. So, thank you for doing that. I'm wondering if we could just disable fix ups on the builds. Is exactly the next thing I was about to mention. Yes, thank you for bringing it up. As has already been pointed out, Julian Christo for example said, we have at the moment a bad situation where you get inconsistent behaviour depending on which machine you happen to be queued to build on. We should be disabling the alignment fix up on ArmyJF as well. There is support in the kernel. You can actually tell it to fix things up, not fix things up, or specifically report exactly where the problem came from. And that's a really nice thing. I think that will be the white answer. So then we can explicitly start grepping through logs and filing bugs. Again, it comes down to just how many packages are broken. I would love to go through. We still have a few months before Buster freezes. If we have a few hundred packages that are broken, it's not too late to file bugs and get them fixed. I'm also wondering if you plan creating auto package test for ARM64, because we are doing that too and some alignment issues are coming up in auto package test, but not in the builds. Oh, awesome. Yes. That would be a lovely thing. If you can share what you've got already, that would be good. We have auto package running in the Ubuntu infrastructure, but it can't be copied directly to Debian, so it would be in need for a machine, I guess. Oh, yeah, absolutely. One of the things, so I was talking about the build machines, we will need, of course, to find a few more ARM64 machines to make this happen. One of the machines I mentioned, where are we this in Quater, is something I do have a fair amount of experience with. It's a socio-next system-on-chip design that is meant to be a server, so it will support up to 64 gigabytes of RAM, it's got multiple disk interfaces on board, it's got gigabit Ethernet and stuff, and all of that's boring. However, the useful thing is, in Lenovo, which is where I do a lot of my work, we're actually working with socio-next to get these boards out there on sale. You can buy them right now, I'm hoping that we're going to start ramping up soon. I have an outstanding offer of a number of these machines as a donation to Debian, so what I'd like to do is get, say, four or five of the machines at BuildDs. Quaterex-A53 is not very fast, but when you've got 24 of them in parallel, oh, they really, really win at building a kernel in parallel, they're a really nice machine. What I also want to do is get one or two of these to help us with auto-package tests, to help with Debian CI and whatever as well, so we can help improve our coverage across the project, I'd like to say. I was just curious if you think it would be feasible to get one of these boards for the reproducible builds project, or two of these boards, actually ideally, because right now we have mostly ARM32 hardware, and then we had the ARM64 hardware we have is not enough to systematically build one way or the other. I've asked for ten of these. It's wonderful. The guy in charge of Lenovo's Enterprise Group, sorry, I think it's just changed name, Martin, is very much a fan of Debian. The Lenovo Enterprise reference platform that they ship is basically Debian with a new kernel and a few updates. He's a fan of Debian, he runs it at home, he really wants to help contribute back. So when I asked for a number of machines, he said, how many do you want? I said ten, assuming he would laugh at me and say, no, I've got two for you. And he said, we can probably do that. I said, OK, no, we'll pay for them. And he said, no, no, no, don't offend me. I want to give these to Debian. I haven't got them in my hand yet. I said I have one at home. I am hoping when I get back to get these organised and I want to get these spread out so that we some going hopefully to Vancouver to go into UBC whacking. We have Debian machines. We'll get some of these maybe at Byte Mark or somewhere in the UK. And we will definitely have others that we can just send out. So wherever you need them for reproducible builds or for auto package test or whatever, I want to get these all working and help improve. Of course, I've now gone on camera talking about Martin. He's probably embarrassed and I'm going to get shouted at Tuesday when I'm back in the office. Yes. We've been teased with rumours of these fast, powerful, 24 core ARM servers for several years now. But I still never actually got my hands on one. Why have they never made it mainstream and then become cheaper or widely used by hosting companies and so on? It's depressing. There's lots and lots of companies are trying to make it in the ARM 64 server world. My take on it and other people would disagree, I know, is that lots of these companies, each of them are trying to do the next big deal that would get them selling 100,000 of these current systems. The first thing that each of them needs to do possibly at least a couple of them is to help prove the market is go and sell the first 1000 of them or even better maybe give away the first 1000 to people like us. Because obviously that would be good. And then actually seed the market and demonstrate that they're good and useful and make things work. Instead what people have been focusing on. I understand it might look more attractive commercially. Each of them has been talking to the big cloud renders for example, where they know that if they can convince them, they will be able to say, here are 50,000 machines delivered on the back of a few trucks to the same data centre. That's wonderful for your bottom line, but unfortunately it does nothing to advance the architecture, it does nothing to advance your own sales. The ARM ecosystem is special in many ways. We've had a habit over the years of most of the SOCs of course have been in mobile phones recently, where people do expect to sell half a million of the same thing, and then next year that will be phoned away and you do half a million of the next thing, which is slightly more features, slightly more powerful. Servers are different, what we actually need is someone who's got the staying power, someone who's got the consistency, a to stay in the market, a number of people have tried and have abandoned or have even failed and have gone bust. So we want people to stay in the market, we want people to give us things where we can continue to buy essentially the same machine three years from now. And I know that's not just us, lots and lots of enterprise customers of course will want exactly the same thing. It's a difficult sell at the moment, it's a difficult conversation to have and I've had it with a number of execs from various of these vendors. I hope one of them understands and actually makes it work, we'll see. So what else should we be doing? What else can we be doing? Is everybody happy with where we are? Is anybody awake? So okay, I'll carry on with Ling as nobody else is. We do have, to go with Arm64, we now have open stack images. In fact we've had them for a while ever since we did the first stretch release. There are more server based things that can be supported on Arm and they are being supported. There's been recent announcements by various of the big, for example, ICD people like Travis and my memory is failing. There was another one announcement earlier this week where people are now starting to support their central cloud based services on Arm64, just the same as on my AMD64. Those are really great things that hopefully will help people to find some of their bugs, like alignment problems and all of the other things that we're trying to track down. It will be nice if we're not the only ones. I can only hope it continues, so of course there's lots of efforts going on to convince more people to make their services portable to more architectures. We seem to have a habit in the computer industry of every five to ten years there's always the phrase of like all the worlds are facts, all the world is a sum, all the worlds are 68k, now it's all the world's intel. It would be nice if we could learn from one mistake in the past and actually keep portable and keep spreading, you know, not putting all the legs in one basket every time. But it works out to be cheaper and cheaper always wins. As the UBoot maintainer I've been experimenting a lot with the EFI implementation in UBoot which will open a lot of opportunities for mostly Arm64 although I've seen some recent commits where maybe even in general Arm32 might start working. The thing I have been noticing however is depending on how the device trees in UBoot then get passed on to the through EFI and you don't end up using the device tree from the kernel and if they're sufficiently out of sync you tend to get some weird behaviors. Sometimes there are good behaviors like devices just work that weren't working. So that and then UBoot just pulls in the device tree from the kernel so you get these weird issues where the device tree is out of sync with the kernel and I know you probably have a few rants about this. I've got to say can I interrupt you and rant about device tree. So device tree is an awesome idea. Hands up anyone who doesn't know what device tree is. Okay I'll explain. So back in the awful dark ages it used to be that you would need to build your kernel almost for each different Arm device individually. You couldn't have a common kernel because you had to configure things specifically with a kernel config. Device tree is very similar to open firmware or whatever from the PowerPC world. It's a way of describing your hardware in a reasonably portable way so that you can have the firmware pass on information about the hardware. So it's where your memory is connected. It's where your serial port is. It's how to talk to your network devices. It's where PCI is. It can be a whole range of things. Well basically it's how to describe your machine such that a generic kernel can then work out how to talk to things. It's lovely as a concept. Unfortunately we've ended up with a chicken and egg situation and we've never really gone beyond it. The whole point of device tree was meant to be that your firmware would know how to describe things and it would then pass this information on in a fixed clean portable way. Unfortunately the way device tree has been interpreted by the kernel over the years has been a moving target. So because none of the devices we started with had working device tree built in we had to supply a device tree blob with the kernel. So that then means that the kernel will have to actually know what your device is even though the whole point is is not meant to. So you then have to say at installation time hopefully the kernel could work it out or in some cases you would have to tell it which device you're running on and then install that device tree. That's okay. The plan was always that wouldn't be a permanent thing. But we're now multiple years on and guess what? No-one trusts the device tree that ships with a firmware to be up-to-date because it might not be as Ray Grant says. The kernel might have differing ideas about how to drive things so you then end up forever having to keep chasing against the kernel. There might be a difference from say 416 to 417 that means you have to use a different device tree specific to that kernel version. This is broken. Unfortunately because of the vagaries of the market and the time taken to get things fixed it may never get fixed and that's a problem. The move to go to ACP, ACPI, did I mention? Yes. For OM64 is indirectly as a consequence of this. ACP and device tree are actually equivalent mostly. They both do the same job. They both describe the hardware. At least part of ACP does, there's more to it. For this discussion those are irrelevant. The point of ACPI is you can't supply it later so you have to trust what comes in firmware. Because of that the vendors have to supply a working ACPI tree or the device just won't work. That unfortunately is possibly where we should have started with device tree all those years ago to say we will not support your devices until you give us firmware that works. Once we have critical mass the next vendor coming in knows what they have to do and will probably do it right. They'll need help and encouragement to do it right so they're not beating up. But they will do it right because they know if they don't. For example the Red Hat kernel, the Debian kernel will boot on their hardware and say I can't drive anything, the customers will go away. The mobile targeted SOCs unfortunately are all the other way round. They're quite happy to continue doing whatever broken things they've been doing for many years and it's our problem to chase them. It's the other way round. This is why many people are pushing for ACPI.  So there's the EBBR which is the enterprise-based boot requirement if I remember correctly and there's a whole bunch of standard-ish documents that are coming out to describe how things should work. But we're still chasing after a bunch of SOCs that are already out there and nobody's interested in reverse engineering things. Nobody's interested in going back rather than we doing how they work. That's where we are. The right answer should be that the kernel stops changing the device trees and we should just be using what's available. So my friend Leif, who's back in the UK, could rant even more about this and get really, really frustrated. He's a UEFI maintainer and his job has been made so much harder by people not doing it right. So we are down to about two minutes left. Sorry, I spoke far too much last. It seems I'm the only one that care about RVL in this room. Possibly. I want to ask. So the most concern to let RVL go to Buster is the DSA concern, right? So if we can find some device to qualify the build D then RVL is okay for the Buster room. I think so. That's where it was. The thing I wasn't clear about is I'm currently doing a rebuild with RMHF. The moment I've finished analysing those results I'm going to reuse the same machines and do a rebuild with RMHL. We don't want to just switch over to new RMHL or RMHF devices as build Ds unless they are proper server machines with sufficient memory, storage and CPU. What is much more like to convince DSA would be to have essentially more of the R64 server machines also building on RMHL. That's where I want to get to. So while I'm not spending much of my effort on RMHL, I'm more than happy to do another rebuild and provide other logs. Okay, so if I understand correctly, so RMHL shares the same status with RMHF, right? Almost. Very close, yes. Exactly, so the old RMHL boxes that we're using for both architectures at the moment are not considered acceptable for much longer. Again, I understand DSA, I agree with them totally on that. We do want to move on to better supportable machines for building. I agree with DSA too. I got a few emails from the building minister privately that they want to donate hardware or donate some money to support RMHL and RMHF, but they want to know what kind of hardware is more qualified for the building. Exactly, so that's why I'm doing this rebuild. So the machines I mentioned at the bottom of this slide, the Seattle, the X-Gene, the Machiato, the Sincuesa will all build 32-bit and 64-bit software. The Thunder X, the Centric and some of the other machines coming will only do 64. So we're looking at having quite a large set of R64 machines to cover both needs. And I think we're probably just about out of time. Very last thing I'm going to say is obviously you know where to find us. If you do have more questions or comments or you want to join in, hash Debbie in arm, Debbie in arm list, and thanks to everyone, we're out of time obviously, I'm still going to be around the rest of the day. Please accost me if you want to talk about this and we'll discuss on the list as well. Thanks very much, folks.


Language fair happening in letter Kenny this coming Saturday, it's in Clashia Alley and it's a chance to find out about education through Irish all the way from preschool up to university level and about the benefits of bilingualism and the employment opportunities that are there for people who are fluent in Irish. And from Lina Itcher-Cannon, and Barb and Yakel joins us in the studio now to have a wee chat about this Barbara. Thanks for coming in. It's it's gonna be a busy day on Saturday hopefully because there's plenty happening. There's lots happening John yeah so we're hoping to get plenty of people out for it. We have information stands from a lot of different groups. We have Connoone Gaelga there who are going to be talking about all the university opportunities, the employment opportunities. We have Changa T there who are talking about you know the family supports that are there if you want to use more Irish at home or if you want to raise your kids with Irish entirely. Somebody's going to be there from our own library to talk about the resources that they have there. Lina Itcher-Cannon will be there, events, classes, the supports that are there that we provide. Collish to Alley, Gil Skelownan, Garm School, Hualu will all be there as well. So that if people are interested in finding out well what would it mean to take on education through Irish for the kids. What are the benefits? And now they're very clear you know benefits that research has proven in terms of being bilingual. So be able to explore that. Have a look around Collish to Alley. It's a gorgeous school, great facilities. But also if you do all that, what are the benefits whenever it comes to even looking for a job? OK OK all outlined on the day. Yeah so really it's for people who are thinking about or maybe not themselves maybe their children and about starting on the education path or maybe making a wee change. As well as those who already are fluent or well down the road and want to find out more. Lina Exactly. So it's really for everybody. I mean even just if you'd quite like a nosy and have a look at the school. You know if you've always wondered about that beautiful strange building. It's a good opportunity to come in and have a look and have a chat with people. But yes if maybe if you are yourself or if you have a child who is coming up to pick in subjects for leave insert or maybe to fill in their CAO form. Well what are the possibilities that are there? What doors are opened simply because somebody has a level of fluency in Irish?  Maybe you have a child in an English speaking primary school who has a flair for languages and who wants to go to College to Alley. Is it possible to make that transition from an English speaking primary school to a Gail College to? Well the answer is yes. You know if you have a child who has a facility for languages who enjoys the challenge then yes absolutely come along and find out about that. So really right across the spectrum of age even just people who have a passion for the Irish language who want to see what is happening. This is a celebration of what is happening with Irish around letter Kenny. So any questions you might have hopefully they will be answered on Saturday if you're there. And I know that Lena is making great strides in letter Kenny to introduce the language into our everyday vocabulary and it's a tricky one to carry off because you want to have as much Irish as possible but you don't want to intimidate people who can't speak it. And that's it absolutely. It's it's about engaging with people, encouraging people to use whatever they have. And I mean we would put a lot of emphasis on doing things that just happen to be through Irish. So I mean we recently had a weekend in the geltacht and people were doing Shanno Stanton. We went out to Gola Island. People went up crook in the new people went to the distillery in Crawley. And all of those things were happening through Irish. On Saturday there are workshops in music and art, science and computer coding for kids that are all just through Irish. So it's not that we're saying to them you have to go in here and speak Irish. But they're provided through Irish. We have Daddy and the knowledge is decided that he would like to come to Bali Holy Farm. Okay, and he's going to speak Irish to all the kids who come. So it's really about giving people opportunities to use whatever they have. And encouraging people to do that. You know, we have a book club. We have a Kirkle Cora. I find more and more around the town. I mean, I was in Aldi the other day. And I said, God am I get whenever I'd finished, you know, packing up all my groceries. And the fella at the checkout said that Walter Roth. Yeah, so people delight in being able to respond. It's lovely. And it's simple things like that.  And that's easy done. Yeah, absolutely. And you see people. I mean, I just it really delights me to see how chuffed people are how happy they are to be able to use even if it's just a bit. And then sometimes people say, you know, I'd love to be able to speak more. I'd love to be more confident. And that's where I get to say, well, call in to number seven Castle Street where our office is, find out about the classes, find out about the opportunities to grow your confidence to learn more Irish, come in and borrow a book from our library and, you know, build your fluency and your vocabulary that way. Have a look at the resources we have. So people are very open. I rarely encounter anybody who's really negative about the language. I think there's a great buzz and energy about the Irish. There was a time when there was a lot of kickback on back a few years. There's a lot of kickback. And it was kind of seen as almost elitist. But, you know, it's come full circle again. And now there there is, as you say, a real energy and an appetite for learning the language, because I don't think it's seen as, you know, being something that's forced on us. And I think more and more people now see that the pathways are there. Should you wish to engage? It's entirely up to you. Having said that, it must be frustrating for someone who is fluent in Irish, who would like to use it more because just in everyday situations, because, you know, everything unless you live in a gilded area, pretty much everything is done through Irish or done through English. That is, that is the case. That is the case. Now, I would have to say, if I look at my social media, about 80% of my my own social media is all in Irish. So I get to engage there through Irish on a daily basis. I, I think I'm very lucky because of the work that I do. I speak an awful lot of Irish all the time. And so I'm very lucky to have the opportunity to do that. But yes, I think, and that's why we would put a real focus on creating opportunities, so that people who want to speak Irish know that they can drop in on a Tuesday morning at 10 o'clock, and there'll be a group of people there that they can just sit and chat Irish to. Or if, you know, we have people who'll come along and they'll do more listening than chatting, because they're just not quite confident enough yet. And that's grand. That'll grow. And soon they'll be right in there. So yes, it is frustrating for people who want to be able to speak more Irish. Now, obviously, you know, there's TG Carr, there's Radio and the Geltic to, we have a couple of pages in letter, Kenny live newspaper about every six weeks. There's a piece in the Donegal News, I think once a month, you know, a double page spread. So it is there, but you kind of have to go looking for it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, it's all about opportunities and there will be plenty of opportunities on Saturday. It's in it in the Gaelica and it's in Clastria Alley in letter Kenny from one o'clock. Yes, from one o'clock to half past four, workshops going throughout the afternoon for kids, tea, coffee, nice buns and stuff like that. And you can just stroll in, you don't have to register. Just drop in. Just drop in. Come in, have a chat, have a dander around the information stands. If you've kids with you, they can go along to the various workshops that are there. Um, I find something to do. Absolutely. Okay. Barbara, Girmaiagud. Girmaiagud, Hain.


This study examined the adherence of older adults to exercise programs. It found that the most common measure of adherence was dropout rate, which ranged from 65% to 86%. Supervised programs had higher adherence rates than unsupervised ones. Factors such as age, gender, socioeconomic status, health status, physical abilities, cognition, and depression were also associated with adherence. This article was authored by Alexandra Miranda Assumpcao Piccarelli, Leni Souza Maximo Pereira, Danielle Surinu Pereira, and others.


The purpose of the Platoon Live Fires is to get these guys trained up through their progression, eventually leading on to the troop Cal-Fex, combined armed by fire. Right now they've trained as teams and as squads, and right now they're being validated as platoons. Platoon Live Fires is nice because you've really got every echelon is really being tested. You're working really hard to organize yourself as a team. Individual soldiers have a really specific task that they're trying to make sure that they are an absolute expert on. We're validating the fact that they work well together. Now, all together, dismounted in-mounted operations can effectively engage and destroy targets. So this is absolutely huge for its excessive 2CR, 5th Corps and of the US Army out here. What we're going to be trying to do is making sure that we have our systems ready to go here, that our soldiers are trained, that our leaders are trained, that our systems are tested and prepared, and that we're then able to execute with our multinational partners, that we can be lethal, that we can work with them, and that we can execute that mission of readiness, interoperability and regional security.


And Allah SWT all religions except Islam during that time this has already started all of these other religions are gradually becoming phased out and there are two reasons for this number one the authorities of these religions are selling out to secular liberalism because they're afraid of being offensive and number two higher academic criticism of these religions are causing people to apostatize which is a sign that they're not the true religion they're not dean and hawk just recently according to a consensus according to the first time ever less than half of the uk identifies christian first time ever


Hi friends, welcome back to my channel and a very special welcome. If you're new here, my name is Jen. I'm a certified weight loss and nutrition coach and it is Friday. So that means that we're gonna talk about my week, my weigh-in and the Weight Watchers workshop topic.  Don't forget to check out the description box down below for nutrition coaching. I do offer personalized to you macros and calories. Highly, highly recommend. This is how I myself have lost and maintain my 140 pound weight loss as well as one-on-one coaching. If you would like to chat with me directly, ask questions or if you just need some additional support. Links and discounts to my favorite things and my Facebook group, come join us there. We would love to have you are all down in that description box. So let's talk about my week, my weigh-in and the Weight Watchers workshop topic. Friends, I hope you had an amazing, amazing week. I had a pretty stellar week, a very busy, very active week, but a fantastic week overall. If you're in my Facebook group, which if you're not, come join us. We'd love to have you. It's free, it's supportive. I shared a big post about last weekend. Let me tell you about last weekend. It was the most active weekend I've had literally in my life. I did boot camp on Friday, played pickleball for two hours on Saturday. Then I went to my first ever Zumba class on Saturday. Zumba's not my thing. I did have a good time at the class. It was a really, really good workout, but it's not something that I see myself doing regularly. And I always say that whatever you do for activity, you have to enjoy it or you're not gonna stick with it. So for me, Zumba's probably not something I'll continue doing. However pickleball is, I'm obsessed with pickleball. It is so, so much fun and literally I love it so much. And then Sunday I hiked Tumamoc Mountain with my friend Lisa. So I was extremely, extremely active this last weekend. And I paid for it a little bit. I paid for it a little bit. I was sore on Monday, sore on Tuesday. Luckily Tuesday's my rest day so I didn't do anything Tuesday. It's my filming and editing day. Speaking of Tuesday, a little miss Lola right back there sleeping on the dog bed currently snoring went back to her oncologist on Tuesday for blood work to make sure that she was still in remission that everything looked really good. And she got a clean bill of health. They were so excited to see her there. They really, truly just love her at her oncology office. And I am just, my dog mom heart is so happy that she's doing well and that she continues to be healthy and happy which is everything I could ask for. Every penny of the thousands and thousands of dollars for chemo has been well worth it if her quality of life is as fantastic as it is. And I just need my baby around as much as possible. She's my best friend in the whole world and I just want her to be happy and healthy. So we had a really good report from the oncologist. I played pickleball this week. I went to the gym, I went to boot camp and then tomorrow I'm actually doing a 5K with my boot camp group in the pecan field. So we have quite a few pecan fields in my area. This is a big pecan growing area. So we're doing a 5K through the pecan field. So I'm really excited for that. Of course, I'll post pictures in my Facebook group and on Instagram. So make sure you follow me there. But overall, I had a really, really fantastic week. In Wednesdays, what I eat in a day, if you missed it, I'll link it down below for you. I talked about some changes that are not only happening here in my channel, kind of what I'm doing with Weight Watchers, but I also talked about how I'm changing up my food a little bit, how I'm going to be a little bit more whole food focused to just help me reach my goals. I'm not gonna go into detail here because I went into detail in Wednesday's video. So like I said, if you missed it, I'll link it down below, definitely check it out. But my food choices this week really helped propel me through all of this activity and really I'm feeling really, really good. My body's feeling really good. My gut is feeling really good. My digestive health has improved and I'm definitely feeling more full and satisfied and I guess overall healthy with the changes that I've made. So I'm happy to make those changes. I'm happy to continue with those changes and see if they help me reach my goals. Another thing I've been really focusing on the last few weeks is my sleep quality. Because I've been so active and because I'm getting up pretty much every day at 4 a.m., I really need good quality sleep. I need to fall asleep. I need to stay asleep. And that's an area that I've struggled with almost all of my life. When I was extremely overweight, even at my healthiest, I still struggle with sleep. I can fall asleep, but I can't stay asleep. I'll wake up to use the bathroom, to use the restroom or I'll just randomly wake up and then I lay there. Well, for what feels like hours trying to fall back asleep until I started using SELACE. Now a lot of you have asked me for an update on this. I've gotten several comments here on YouTube. Do you still use it? What do you think of it after using it for months and months? I love this. This has changed my life in so many ways. This helps me fall asleep, stay asleep, and I wake up more refreshed than ever. If I don't take this, I don't wake up nearly as refreshed and ready for the day is when I take this. This, like I said, has changed my life, has been a big, big game changer in sleep. And I talk a lot about sleep, especially on my nutrition channel. Sleep can really make it so you don't lose any weight. Sleep can make it so you choose the wrong foods. Sleep is a requirement for a healthy body and for weight loss. SELACE has bioactive herbs and minerals that engage you in a sustainable sleep cycle. It's vegan and it has nice clean ingredients so it aligns really well. My desire to really put good things in my body. Some of the main things about SELACE is it has valerian root and hops. Studies actually indicate that this can bind with the usage of valerian and hops flowers accounted for about a 50% decrease in the number of nighttime awakenings in participants. It also contains melatonin and we know how important melatonin is for sleep. I appreciate it's all natural ingredients. It's nice clean ingredients. I take two capsules about 45 minutes before I go to bed so when I'm kind of winding down for the night and then I sleep like a baby. If I do wake up in the night, I go right back to sleep. And like I said, I wake up more refreshed than I ever have in my entire life. That's what the capsules look like. This bottle is just about gone. So again, two of these about 45 minutes before I go to bed every single night. So yes, I still take SELACE. I love everything about SELACE. It's completely changed my life. So I will link it down below with a discount and thank you guys for asking for an update. It reminds me to let you know what I'm still utilizing supplement wise and what has become a staple for me. So now let's jump into this week's Weight Watchers Workshop topic and this is the secret to making activity more interesting. I mean, this comes at a perfect time after trying out my first ever Zumba class and realizing that maybe just maybe that's not for me. But you know, I love boot camp. I love my pickleball. I love lifting weights. I love hiking. Those are activities for me that I enjoy. So those are activities that are sustainable. Have you ever looked at a piece of artwork or nature in general and thought, wow, that is absolutely extraordinary. You know that feeling of wonderment and amazement. We want that from our exercise, from our activity. Again, so we find joy in it so that we'll continue to do it. So we have some tips and tricks from Weight Watchers on how to make our activity a little bit more exciting. Try this, scout out a spot, choose a place you haven't been before or paid much attention to in the past. Then unplug fully. Silence or turn off your phone so you can tune into your surroundings undisturbed. Then move mindfully. Notice your breathing, how you connect with the ground and the sights and sounds. And lastly, find inspiration. What around you feels energizing and intriguing? What color, shape, spaces, sense or other details are you drawn to? I talk a lot about on my Instagram, especially in my stories, how when I take my walks, I typically don't listen to anything. I don't have music on. I don't, I have my phone with me but it's typically in my pocket because I just want to embrace the surroundings. I also do that a lot when I hike the Tumamoc Mountain in Tucson. I just want to experience everything around me, taking the sights, the sounds, the smells. That's really important to really get the most out of your activity. If you're bored with what you've been doing, try something different. Again, find something you enjoy and utilize these tips and tricks to make it more exciting and sustainable for you. Appreciate what's around you. Feel inspired. Feel mesmerized by your surroundings. That's going to make whatever activity you're doing much more enjoyable. Find joy in movement. Just like you find joy in your weight loss journey, you find joy in the foods that you eat. Find joy in the movement you're doing as well. As always, I do want to share three fast facts from Weight Watchers with you. Number one, experiencing awe can increase wellbeing and life satisfaction. Number two, the more you intentionally look for awe, the more likely you are to notice it in your everyday life. And number three, feelings of awe can make being active more enjoyable and make it more likely that you'll do it. I 100% agree with this. You have to enjoy what you're doing. And even if you don't enjoy it the first time, kind of like the Zumba class, find something about it that you do enjoy so that you can finish that workout and determine whether or not it's something that you want to continue doing. Is it something that you want to implement into your activity? Just really finding awe in life in general can just make us more balanced, more peaceful, and just make us a more happy human in general, especially when it comes to exercise. Being happy is a must for us to continue doing it. Let me know down below what are your go-to activities or what are the things that you really find enjoyment and awe in. Let's end with my weigh-in for the week. Last week I actually lost one pound of the 1.4 that I had gained the previous week. I talked a lot about maintenance and maintaining my weight. I actually talked about that as well in Wednesdays what I eat in a day. Don't forget to check that out down below if you missed it for updates on my food, updates on Weight Watchers, updates on my goal weight. All of that is in Wednesday's video. I'm really just trying to basically maintain my weight and see what happens with my body as I continue healing from surgery. I'm three months post-op and it takes about six months to see full results and also what happens with changing up my activity, increasing my activity, how does my body change and respond to that? So I'm kind of in this limbo mode when it comes to my weight and just focusing on maintenance is really where I'm at right now, especially with all of the travel that I have coming up. I have two trips in September, a trip in October and a trip in November and then it's the holidays, right? It's the part of the year that's the hardest to not only maintain our weight, but not gain weight. Just keep doing what I'm doing, moving my body, choosing good whole food that nourishes my body, drinking my water, taking my supplements that help me with my weight loss and health journey and just focusing on being a healthy, happy version of myself. So when I stepped on the scale today, I am actually exactly the same weight as I was last week, two, the ounce. So technically I'm still up about 0.4 pounds. We don't care about 0.4. To me, that's a weight fluctuation. I consider this a maintenance. I'm really happy with where I am weight-wise. If you missed me talking about this in previous videos, maintenance is not a number. Maintenance is a range and I have given myself a five pound weight range that I wanna stay in. Between 185 and 190 pounds is my weight range. I'm at the bottom of that right now, so I'm happy. I'm continuing to lean out my body, turn whatever excess fat I have into lean muscle and just focus on overall my health goals and my fitness goals so I couldn't be happier with a maintain. Now I wanna hear from you guys. Let me know how was your weigh-in, how was your week? Was it what you expected? And of course, let me know what is your favorite activity. Let us know because there could be an activity that you do that may inspire someone else to try that out and may quickly become a favorite for them. So let us know everything down below. And if you enjoy another weigh-in video, don't forget to give it a thumbs up. Subscribe if you're not. Turn your bell on because we do this weigh-in thing every single Friday. Check out the description box down below for Wednesdays, what I eat in a day video if you missed it. Nutrition coaching, links and discounts to my favorite things. And don't forget, come join my Facebook group. That's how you can keep up with me a little bit more day to day. Thank you for watching. Happy Friday, friends. And I'll see you in tomorrow's grocery haul. Bye.


Yeah, we on boss talk one-on-one. That's the way they use the one-way.   These niggas by 6-11. Oh, the little short ones is the worst. Got a complex and everything. Oh, man. You gotta fight these niggas all night. They come just give it all. You lost, man. You lost. Man, speaking of that, uh, Cat Williams, man. We gotta talk about Cat, man. Speaking of short niggas. Speaking of short and fighting and all this good stuff. Yeah. So what's the deal with you and Cat Williams? I mean, uh, Aunt Davies. Oh, no. Um, Cat. Y'all work well together. Um, listen, I'm from a, uh, uh, I'm a dinosaur. Okay. So where are we from? I think he said that he exists. He better be that. Okay.  We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't sniff it out. Like, oh, that didn't, that didn't make sense. Cat, um, won't just be a comedian. He wants to be a gangster. He wants to be a pimp. He wants to be a pimp. He wants to be a pimp. You got three jokes, nigga. This is going with that bush.  Make sure you get it.  And, um, him, him thinking that I was not going to be funny.  But I've been doing this before you. Okay. Yeah. I can tell you, I was on stage, Robin Harris, Damien Waynes, we had to bring it. And what happened was I was smashing him. You know what I'm saying? He couldn't follow me. For sure. So that's where it really came from.  I'm like, no, you're not going to do that either. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. You're not going to. You're not going to do that. And then he joked you a little bit.  He couldn't have a little boy. It was, it was rough. It was going down. We're going down. The little boy took that hit the nigga, really? Really? The boy looked at him like, huh? Huh? That was viral moment for sure. And you know, it's so funny when. He could give you the shirt off his back. He could give you the shirt off his back. I mean, we're in, I think we're in LA. I said, I think I'm buying me some shoes. So I'm at the counter and I want to go get some shoes. No man, I got these. I was like, I can't let you buy me those shoes. I got these. They said, I got these. So he takes his shoes and buys his shoes. I'm like, man, I can't wear them shoes.  But that's the kind of deal he is. He means well, but there's something other gets in the way.  Even when he pulled the gun on me, we was like, wow. Do you know how these niggas will shoot you for real? What are you doing? So I remember that now that you say it. What are you doing? Then he got sugar involved and she was like, he don't know. I don't know, he don't know. You think he'll beat me up?  I had no, you know what I'm saying? It's just that one incident where he pulled a strap out of me, I was gonna, it was, it got bad. Cause I was like, don't you ever do that? That's something real serious. That's serious. Don't you ever do that? You're really endangering your life for real. No, no, it's going for what you know at that point. But I don't understand why people would even do that because one thing my daddy used to always say, if you go and pull it, you better use it. So, you know, pull in straps and try to frighten somebody or try to intimidate somebody like why?   What do you mean? What are you doing? Yeah, we on Boss Talk 101.


bring in Simon Michelle now for big securities for more global bond yields just interested in your view I guess off the back of that Bank of Japan meeting what sort of movements have we seen? Well it's interesting actually we've had significant downward movements in yields obviously we've seen the Bank of Japan provide more action for the market earlier this year so I don't think most market was expecting any further moves by the Bank of Japan. Look it continues to put pressure on the RBI and we've certainly seen that emerge with that lower inflation number you know the rest of the globe is continuing to throw money at their economies and yet the RBA sort of holding firm I think this could be the final nail in the coffin for an RBA cut. What are we seeing in terms of market pricing and the yields moves on that RBA on that RBA I guess increase in in view that we will see a cut? Well it's interesting I mean the two-year rate if you have a bit of a look at that it has been down in 2016 as well as 1.75 but it was up at 2.06 and it's now falling back 20 basis points to 1.86 so market's certainly now starting to build in but you know the challenge that the RBA has is that their next meeting is on budget day the Tuesday slightly the federal government will then call a double dissolution election that's certainly what they've indicated and so they've been in election mode so if the RBA doesn't move in May then they can't really move until July and it'd be sort of three days after the election so you know some real issues there and you know will that you know force the RBA to move in May or will they hold off and keep quiet through the election cycle that's the big unknown I think in this stage but I think the market's really building in a further cut at this point. It will be very interesting thanks so much Simon for that update. Thank you. So I'm Michelle there from FIGIT security.


Here's what happened for those that are I remember I was 12 years old, and I was kind of puzzled by it I'm 59 and I'm puzzled by it now. So on this date in 1973 I Think this was the first spring training That's what I'm on the team. Well 73 right had to be the but I don't know if he bought it It might have been yeah, it might have been his first spring training. So imagine what he thought There they're two Yankee teammates two pitchers, and they're pretty good pitchers First Peterson and Mike Keckich Now for the younger listeners that we have we a lot of our audience is young they might not have ever heard this You'll be flawed you your your jaws are gonna open up right now Both Peterson and Keckich publicly announced That they traded families they've traded families Including their wives the kids and the dogs and there's a great Twitter follow Baseball by Beast smile that reminded me that this is the date that had happened and It actually worked out for Fritz Peterson Don He and Mike Keckich's wife and kids they stayed together Keckich and Peterson's wife ended up breaking up and it ruined families sure, but this would be considered I mean imagine take any two players you want oh And they announced today that they've traded their wives and their kids and their families and their dogs Rageous well, what does that mean trade kids though? Fritz Peters and there's just switched houses. They switch houses So they what about their own children though? They didn't they still I'm sure had to care for their own children Yeah, but their children like Fritz Peterson's wife and kids were now living with Mike Keckich and Mike Keckich's wife and kids were now living with Fritz Peterson and they announced it publicly and I as a 12-year-old kid I was what and even as a 59 year old ago what and why did they announce it publicly? I guess because people would have found out yeah, because I guess they were gonna be just out publicly with new wives and a different They were like wait a minute. That's not how people talking about my good no no before it happened Oh, I don't know because it was it wasn't that sort of media then and these players are not particularly popular Oh, they were they were Fritz Peterson and Mike Keckich were part of the Yankee starting rotation Now it'd be like if you said a Tanaka and Garrett Cole, okay now neither was Garrett Cole What but no one there was Garrett Cole? No, nobody was that great But Fritz Peterson was a really good pitch. It'd be like Jay Hap and Tanaka But the 73 Yankees weren't weren't very good So, you know your one-two starters aren't gonna be the one-two starters of the 2020 Yankees But how old were the kids? I don't know But they were just infants then they maybe they wouldn't know any better now I don't know why to this day in 2020 that this has not been made a major motion picture Oh, because I it is almost unbelievable. Like it just doesn't make any sense now um Who um What's the show that you were on it's on channel 7 peter a 10 o'clock Why is her name escaping me you were on to talk about the grammar tamer hall And I like the show and I watch it occasionally good for you She did a spot on how like it's it's making a comeback Like wife swapping is become or you know bringing in somebody else to the relationship or But that came across yet it happens as like an experience like for a night right not not training live But what makes this so unique and I've never heard another example of it Where you're just trading families not it's not just for the You know experience or for the night. It's like I'm changing my life.  We're going to go about our business I honestly Michael, I've never heard peter. Have you ever heard it ever happen in music or in in hollywood? I've never Listen, you hear of people leaving someone for someone else that the person knew in some of course But this was a swap and having an open marriage. This is beyond open marriage teammates It wasn't like from other teams because I've heard stories like way back when teams in the same city That the wives would hook up with the players when because when you have teams in the same city and you could figure out what I'm talking about One team's out of town right and the wife stay home And the the husbands of the other team would go And be with the you know the what they would they would cheat on their families with the wives of the other players But but that's open marriage and I think that happens a lot in professional sports Right, but the fact that it would be like players from the same city teams from the same city I guess it was just convenience, but you don't know what's worked out I mean you said cheating. Maybe it wasn't cheating. Maybe this was just the way that it was an open marriage But this is beyond open marriage. It's swapping families. How is this cheating? How is this not like a book? I mean the whole thing is a book to me. It's great. It's that's insane truly insane Well, has there ever ever been like a a doc about it I don't I don't even know if there was a doc at least a 30 for 30 Now I know these aren't huge names Even for yankee fans, michael, even though they were good pitchers at the time Even yankee nation those names do not resonate beyond the store I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you why you should like fritz peterson even more Okay Fritz peterson John sterling used to do play-by-play before he did the onlanders. There was another team going island ducks, right? No, no, uh, the new york. Did he do the new york raiders in the wha? Okay You know who his color announcer was oh fritz peterson really? Yeah Why I don't know he loved hockey and I guess he knew it, but that was john's color announcer It's hockey man. Both these guys are still with us. I believe so so let's get them on Why are we waiting for everybody else to tell the story? We should tell the story It's don best point you've ever been and it would make for a great 30 for 30 It really would I I think that the last I heard fritz peterson is not doing that great But a couple years ago. He was at yankee old timers day. So I know he's still with us 78 years old now And kek it just 74 so that's old enough to run for president steve bernie, right? Yeah Who does such a great job booking the guests on center stage? He just texted me said it's called the trade And it has been in development with ben afleck and matt daemon to star in the roles of peterson and kek itch Well, there you go But we need a doc. That's what peter's saying. That's just a movie. No, I want to I want to know how far along in development this is I I guess it's been in development a while, but it hasn't gotten the proper funding Anyway, think about that everybody will get back to you and it calls, but then 47 years ago today Something that's the thing that I find amazing is that The time frame of 47 years has not dimmed the outrageous. There's an article about the the trade, right? And afleck Daemon and a director in 2014 So that's a long development may not be happening That's what it's I think you step in and make this happen. Yeah, you restart a story. This could be the first thing when your new production company That's a good idea. Yeah mage productions The trade imagine a trade between one man and another Sleeping with the other's wife Sleeping in another man's bed sex Using another man's bar of soap the nudes are back smelling that man Being near that man giving cheer Cheerios to that man's children. This is the story of kekic and fritz It's all I got. How do you bring in a lawyer? Is there something that's to get worked out? I don't know. There's so many. Well. Yeah, there's a lot that's to get worked out the You have to I assume there were actual divorces and remarriages, correct The great caron veenstra asked a very good question. How were those kids not traumatized for life? Didn't they miss their dads? I don't understand. The only way I think it would work is if they were infants If they were like three months old, I guess they would be none the wiser, right? Can you get on that? Please Andrew, can you find out how old the kids were at the time of the the trade? I'm sure wikipedia has all the answers. All right, so we'll be back. We're investing


in Schumacher with Citadel Defense.  Just a quick short story. I went into Chipotle the other day, my way home from work, to buy some delicious burritos and when I got in there I put my phone in my pocket and I just decided I wanted to be, I wanted to pay attention not just to my surroundings but I wanted to see who else was actually paying attention and I was probably in a store with 20-ish people not counting the workers in the back just kind of counting people in line and sitting down and everybody I mean everybody standing in line was either ordering you know going through that line or they were doing this right so I think it's interesting that the vast majority of people don't even pay attention. I could have been like casing the place to rob it no one would have had any idea. Most people don't pick their head up so when you are out in public when you're pumping your gas or when you're in line for your food and your board and you're frustrated and taken forever and you're starving and whatever put your phone in your pocket and just just observe even even if you only do once about yes you should have situational awareness all the time however I'm just saying next time just pay attention to who else is paying attention because you're gonna find it's nobody. See you soon.


Good morning, welcome back to theCUBE's day three coverage of Snowflake Summit, live from Caesars Forum in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante, as I mentioned. This is our third day of covering Snowflake, the whole ecosystem of Snowflake, customers, partners, executives, leaders. We're going to be talking with Snowflake and Snowplownex. They're providing together a competitive solution for modeling and analyzing conversion journeys in near real time. Dave, that's something that we as consumers expect to have a seamless conversion journey, but it's hard for organizations to achieve that. Yeah, a lot of snow going on here. Snowplow, Snowflake, a lot of Snowteams, bring it on. Ironically, it's like 100 degrees outside, but we're talking all snow. We have two guests here with us, Mike Robbins, the head of engineering at Snowplow is here and Patrick Crosby, senior manager of technology alliance at that Snowflake. Great to have you guys. Thanks for having us. Great to be here, thank you. The one funny thing is, this whole thing is on brand, this whole expo hall is on brand very, very much the whole snow theme and it's ironically freezing in here, so we don't know it's 100 degrees outside. Mike, talk to us a little bit about Snowplow. I see 1.9 million sites and apps use Snowplow to generate and model first party customer data from across their digital interfaces, capture descriptive customer journeys. Talk to us about Snowplow, what you guys do. Yeah, so a lot of it's really around behavioral data collection, as you mentioned. So looking at users and customers on websites and apps and server side and IoT and all that sort of good stuff and really trying to get a better understanding of what consumer behavior is effectively happening and increasingly now a lot of importance and focus on doing that in a first party way. So a couple of years ago, it didn't really matter as much. You could get away with a lot of third party stuff but particularly now in this emergent market and sort of post all these privacy breaches, there's this increasing consideration of how to do that in your own environment and capture that in a first party way rather than rely on some external vendor. So we've seen a really big uptake of lots of people considering that more and more and as a result we've seen a lot of uptake on a lot of those sites. I'm sure you get this question all the time. I was like, why don't I just use Google Analytics and you kind of addressed it but maybe you could address it more directly. I think it's part of it which is there's some people that just can't use Google Analytics now, right? There's a lot of legal rulings particularly in the EU where they just go like, well, no, you can't go and do that because it's being processed in a way that fundamentally from a European perspective infringes on human rights basically. So some people just can't use it and the people that can are going, well, look, it's a good option but there's a change now. There's a big change between Google Analytics 3 and Google Analytics 4 and it's giving people the chance to re-evaluate and go, well, actually, is this what we want to take into the future for the next 10 years, 15 years? And that's a lot of how long GA's has been around. So people kind of that decision point now of going, like, is this going to be right for us in the future? And a lot of people are going, no, maybe not, maybe not. Maybe we want to consider sort of other different options. So there's compliance and there's functionality. Compliance and functionality I think is a big one and just transparency as well, right? A lot of people are advertising on Google or run ads through Google or buy ads through Google and they go, well, actually, I want to be able to measure the effectiveness of my campaigns. I want to be able to measure that without some player that kind of potentially may have a vested interest in favoring towards themselves over, say, Facebook or another advertising network. So a lot of transparency in going, well, if the data is in my environment, if it's sitting in my Snowflake account, if it's sitting in the data cloud there, I have the ability to kind of audit that and for a lot of people that's a really important thing. It's fundamentally about trust. Yeah, and that transparency one is really important and something that we at Snowflake have seen in a variety of different industries and use cases and particularly in this case, like the ability to be able to have first party data collection to actually as a brand to own all of that data about your customers and your own and operated infrastructure is very powerful and so we're working with a ton of amazing partners like SnowCloud and so they're able to bring all of that in and pull it into that customer Snowflake instance and then they're able to combine that and unify that with a variety of other pieces of information and so the transparency, the breaking down of data silos is really powerful. It's critical for organizations that it's no longer nice to have. It's really critical to drive revenue, to prevent churn, net customer retention rate and these are things that businesses across every industry have to do these days to stay competitive, to stay in business. Yeah, and it's customer expectations that you own that customer data, right? Like why are you going and sending it somewhere else? Why are you going and storing it in these other systems and we've all probably been subject to a lot of emails going, okay, you've had this account leak or this account leak but really I think organizations are starting to understand that sometimes using all those different things can be a liability and really you want to have control over that environment yourself. So we're seeing lots of that, we're seeing lots of increases in sort of data sharing with a lot of this Snowflake stuff as well. So rather than sending the data to some other kind of third party vendor, we're seeing more of these relationships directly between brands and companies and brands and vendors and customers which is opening up a lot more sort of collaboration and transparency behind how a lot of those partnerships work. Now you're doing this inside of Snowpark? We do a bit inside of Snowpark. So we do a lot of attribution inside of Snowpark. We'd love to move it over to container services. So that's something that we're looking at at the moment but a lot of the multi-touch attribution we do. So in terms of how people are converting on the platform it could be e-commerce, it could be a media site where you're logging in and paying through a paywall. What are the channels that get you to that conversion? What is the marketing team spending money on that is effective? And that's a really challenging thing to measure particularly in a Google style ecosystem where effectively you've got a black box and they'll tell you what's effective but really doing that in Snowflake and Snowpark means you get to see the innards of that working machine, right? It's not a black box that tells you this number and this number and doesn't explain it. And I think a lot of stuff is around that explainability component at the moment which is why is that channel effective or why should we spend more on this or less on this? And particularly in the economic climate that we're at at the moment is that's a really critical factor to explain the impact of those economic decisions on product and users and acquisition as well. And those features like Snowpark and streaming are really what's unlocking a lot of the value here. So being able to combine the power of Snowflake with Snowplow and drive those analytics and actually get some of that real-time perspective and then giving you the flexibility to do the modeling and the visualization, that's all sort of, that's what's really I think coming to fruition here with a lot of the new capabilities that we're releasing and that Snowplow has released and so it's really amazing to see this and actually give brands a really amazing opportunity as they're being forced to shift over to a new version of Google so they can really sort of step back and evaluate are there other options where I could actually get a more powerful solution? Time to switch. But so the journey started with using Snowflake at the back end, right? And I saw, I'm seeing Snowplow and then now you're increasingly investigating Snowpark container services and actually being native inside. Yeah, and I think it's kind of, we're tracking the evolution of the product, right? It really started as this data warehouse and now as emerging as all these other sort of services as part of that data cloud. So particularly for a lot of our customers is that data warehouse is the core of everything but then you go and add on the compute layer and then you can start to run your personalization or your recommendation engines and that sort of thing. And then increasingly we've got, as is the nature of things, people asking more about AI. So a lot of the LLM stuff and the Nvidia keynote and people sort of interested in all this new stuff they can do. So it's been a really massive problem with data historically as your data is sitting in one place and your compute and all the interesting things have sat in another and we're kind of increasingly finding this convergence of well, your data shouldn't be over here and your compute over here. It really makes sense for them both to be in the same place and I think a lot of the data cloud announcements are kind of continuing with the idea of well, everything is in the same place and there's this concept of sort of data gravity which is the more data you're adding into something it pulls in everything else and that's both from a data perspective but also an organizational perspective as well. And it unlocks a ton of flexibility as well and I think it's another dynamic when you're using a single monolithic solution, right? Like you are, you're waiting on innovation and sort of the pace and the choices and decisions that they have to make but as an organization is a brand if your customer data, it is a critical asset to many of these businesses. It is their differentiating asset is the reason that they're able to compete and grow and be successful in these increasingly competitive markets and so you want to own that asset and you want to have the flexibility to leverage that asset in a variety of ways and so this gives them that ability so they're able to unify that, they're able to leverage amazing solutions that are there but they're also able to do things in-house, to do modeling in-house to extend those capabilities in any way that they'd like and so that's another I think critical part of this. Mike, you must have a favorite customer story that you think really articulates the value prop of what Snowplow and Snowflake are doing together that helps maybe even like a, where you came in and replaced Google Analytics? Yeah, I mean we've done that a lot of times. I think one of the big customers for us was folks called Digital Virgo who run a mobile payments platform so effectively they've got something like two billion users worldwide and effectively it's paying for something on your mobile so you could be in a sports stadium buying a ticket or a drink or you could be in a train station getting a promotion or a discount or something like that but effectively pay on your phone which is a massive, massive thing it's kind of prevalent everywhere and one of the big issues they were on Google and one of the big issues they had was just this latency between when they were getting the data and then when they could actually make a decision on it and you think about it, so they were big into a lot of inventory and campaigns as part of FIFA but also the NBA finals recently as well is the performance of that campaign is happening in real time, right? Like people are on their phones it's not a you're buying a car and you go and buy it in three months time they wanna know how that spend is influencing and how users are interacting with that and then basically personalize effectively in real time so they really connect those telecommunications providers with the brands directly as a proxy but they couldn't do that with something like Google Analytics they just didn't have the quality of the data and the latency was too high so a lot of stuff in Snowflake where we can get that data in there in seconds and increasingly things like Snowpipe streaming they can then go and make those decisions go back to brands and go okay we're going to optimize this in real time look at this acquisition we're going to stop running this campaign we're going to switch campaigns we're going to increase the impressions so for them that was a really powerful thing because it's effectively an audience of two billion people, right? Is even a tiny optimized changes has a massive, massive impact. Yeah and I think what's really powerful about the partnership that we have here is that on the front end of that like we want to make sure that customers are having all that critical data within Snowflake but the collection of it is a really challenging problem to be able to actually know how to get the data from the point of activation if it's your phone, if it's a site and then being able to do the validation and all of the important some cases you actually need to retry those events so there's a lot of actually nuance and complexity to achieving the landing of that data accurately and completely in Snowflake and Snowplow is a really amazing solution on that side and that's what's able to give customers the granularity and the accuracy that they need to have these sorts of campaigns. Explain Snowpipe streaming, what does that do for you? So basically, so historically you've had to kind of batch load data into Snowflake which basically means you're not going to insert one event at a time or one user at a time you're going to group them all together and you're going to do it as one big batch which has historically been the fastest way to do it and generally you can do that every couple of minutes which is pretty good for a lot of folks is generally they're not reacting much faster than that but Snowpipe streaming gives us this new capability of essentially having a fire hose where we can put in as much or as little as we want and it goes into Snowflake effectively immediately so within a couple of seconds. So particularly for real-time use cases where you want to look at what's happening now compared to six months ago or three months ago historically that could have been quite difficult to do because you would get it at minute intervals but you wouldn't be able to sort of predict beyond that whereas this sort of second to sub-second latency really unlocks a lot of those real-time use cases that previously would have needed a lot of engineering effort to build whereas now it all runs basically effectively within the same cloud. So you're essentially working on live data. You're working on very close to live data. Very close to live data and then when there's a change do you use some kind of like change data capture or something similar to that? Yeah, so a lot of people doing CDC with a lot of event stuff it's kind of effectively a change in state or an action for a lot of customers and that just opens the door to very quick personalization which is if someone is abandoning a heart, sending them an email 30 minutes later an hour later they've forgotten they're watching TV they're not going to tune back in whereas if you can do that in far, far closer to real-time and that's kind of what people expect is you don't want to go and open up your Netflix or whatever your video player is and see recommendations for stuff that really isn't relevant to you because actually you only cared about that thing at a point in time. You've just watched something, here's something that's going to be far more relevant to you. So, and that's just kind of becoming what everyone is expecting and if you don't get that experience you're kind of a little bit befuddled as to like, okay, why, why? It doesn't really make a huge amount of sense. Why don't we just add dollars? Yeah, yeah. Next best action is to your point, we all expect it. We expect it to be personalized and relevant like we were talking yesterday.  You don't want to be served more ads after that transaction is complete for more dishwashers. You want, what would go with that? Or if I want to buy a tent, if I bought a tent, I don't want to be having more ads for tents. I want things that would go with it. We just have that expectation that wherever we're doing a transaction, that next best action is going to be relevant. Absolutely. And we've just seen an explosion of customers and partners that are actually using Snowflake to drive these types of marketing and advertising outcomes and a lot of them are built on these types of real time and near real time use cases. So you really need to incorporate that. And I think Snowflake Streaming is unlocking that for a lot of our partners and it's allowing them to really drive those outcomes. You got the user experience, which you're describing as it's annoying. But the other end of it is you're just wasting money as the advertiser, throwing it away to an individual that has no longer has intent to buy. Yeah, absolutely zero intent. It is zero intent. Yeah, I've been told that Amazon does it because a lot of people will then go and return those things and actually it works quite well. So they'll buy a vacuum cleaner and then maybe it won't work out. So they'll still recommend vacuum cleaners, but it feels like a diminishing return sort of thing. Which is like, it doesn't make sense, like particularly dishwasher, like, do I really need another? But I mean, maybe they know best.  I think it got back to our earlier point. But you experienced that actually with these days. You say, do I want to buy that on Amazon? Do I trust that from Amazon or is that? Yeah, but I think I get back to our earlier point about transparency and having the data in Snowflake and having it explainable. Which is like, if you are going and serving, you bought a dishwasher and you're serving inventory of dishwasher to that user again, what is the data? What is the behavior that you're capturing on those users? And how do you go and explain that sort of thing? And in a lot of these black box systems, you don't get that explainability. You're trusting the algorithm. So a lot of this stuff on data cloud is you're building it yourself. It's within your environment. You can explain it to your stakeholders, but you can also explain it to your customers as well. Or you could actually do the analytics to design that campaign such that you could ship the initial vacuum cleaner and then have the ads for the next one that you're going to have to ship after the return ready. So what does AI do for all this? Because now we're entering this new era. We're in the before, we're kind of in the middle. What's the after going to look like? I think what this is doing is it's really building that data foundation that allows you to unlock those AI capabilities. So we've talked a lot about how we're getting that real time data landing directly in snowflake. We're getting that to be valid. We have transparency. You've got all of that data unified. So now you actually have the critical data asset that's needed to run those use cases. And you can unlock that in a variety of ways. Like you could leverage capabilities that you are building in-house. You may have a data team that's doing that. You can leverage some of the amazing solutions that are driving that and building directly on snowflake. So this is building the data foundation that is unified, it's secured, it's easy to collaborate, and it's easy to make that extensible across all of those use cases. So that's what's I think also really powerful about this partnership. Mike, the name, Snowplow Snowflake Coincidence? Yeah, it is. You guys are about 10 years old, right? Yeah, about 10 years old. 10 or 11 years old, I think. And you guys are probably similar because there was a couple of years in stealth mode. Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, Snowplow is six months or a year older. Okay. But I think there's similar origins of the name. You know, they are both related to the cloud and things like that. I think the partnership was meant to be. Yeah, it kind of writes itself. There's a little bit of confusion, but there's also a lot of complimentary stuff there. We're going, oh, that makes sense. Like it's a solution. Yeah, and you still every once in a while have to tell a snowflake employee that Snowplow is in fact not a feature, but another organization. Well, that first thought that I thought it was. And I'm like, oh, they're just, they're so good with the naming. So Mike, you talked about what you guys are doing in terms of helping customers with campaign performance, conversion, next best action. What does the future hold for Snowplow, especially in terms of your Snowflake partnership? Look, I think taking more advantage of a lot of these new services is, you know, the more and more it grows, you know, we started very focused on the data warehouse because that's what it was early on. And we had a lot of early customers going, hey, look, we're looking to migrate off these legacy platforms to something new. Let's try this. And that's kind of where our partnership started. And I think now is looking at these new services at it. So now for a lot of customers we're getting asked about LLMs and, you know, what can you do with GPUs in Snowflake and how do we do ML and AI? So a lot of it's these more advanced use cases, a lot of it's infrastructure as well. So now, you know, with containers, how do we go and move these workloads that we have potentially in other areas closer to the data? And that's both from a security perspective but also a cost perspective as well, right? You're not shipping all this compute and data around between completely different regions. You're really being able to centralize a lot of that. So I think a lot of it for us is figuring out what are those services as sort of complimentary and how can we kind of enhance the Snowflake experience from a user perspective and a customer perspective, make it cheaper, make it easier to run, make it more holistic. So take advantage of those services and migrate some of those things into sort of what is increasingly become this larger platform. Yeah, absolutely. Guys, thank you so much for joining Dave and me on the program talking about Snowplow on Snowflake, what you're able to enable customers to do. I had to really think about that to make sure I got it right. We appreciate your time and we wish you continued success. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Our pleasure. For our guest and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. Up next, do you want to be a query boss for your company? Well, we're going to be talking to the CEO and co-founder of Sundack who's going to tell your data engineers how to achieve just that. Miss any of our content? Thecube.net is where you go, saleclenangle.com for analysis and editorial. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage.