And we're live, welcome to 21 Live, the Red Pill Edition. Today I'm live here from Orlando, Florida, and remotely we have Carl from Black Labelogic, Donovan Sharp at the first time. Eliminable man, or I am, we're gonna call him. Rolla Tomasi from the Rational Mail, Ryan Stone from Married Red Pill, and myself, of course, founder of 21 Studios. As a follow-up to last week's discussion on Jordan B, or two weeks ago now, the discussion with Jordan B. Peterson, the Red Pill and the Blue Pill, we're gonna dive into the recent events in Florida with the mass shooting down in Parkland. We're gonna look at it from a intersexual dynamics perspective and red poke perspective. So not from the kind of mainstream points right now, focusing on guns, things like that. But the actual issues in terms of like the individual himself, all the events that went into it. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having us again. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Cool, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Well, with that said, let's talk about mass shootings and how that is affected by the Red Pill feminism and everything related to that. Rolla, do you wanna kick it off? Well, I have a, I've got a post that I put up right after this. And it kind of was a, I don't know, the kind of like the brainchild, I guess, of another post that I've done called casualties. And I put that out, gosh, I think back in 2013 or something. I think it was right around the time of the shooting that happened in Colorado, the Aurora Theater shooting. And all the specifics that were going in there. And really that post was just sort of a revelation that I had is that whenever I hear about a mass shooting today, I only think of two things.  Or I mean, I'm actually kind of surprised that this kid didn't off himself before they got to him. There's a lot to sort of unpack with this, but I think one of the main things that the mainstream media is intentionally avoiding right now is this kid's history with his ex-girlfriend. And sure enough, I was right about that. My first impression is this kid is probably depressed.  And he decided that he wanted to go and show the world that he was capable of killing everybody. And really what was the spark that lit that off? And if you go on Google right now and you put in the search term, Nicholas Cruz ex-girlfriend, you'll see what I mean. And I told you, before we came on, I told you guys to go check that out. And sure as shit, it's exactly what I talked about when I talked about it in the last post that I've done. And then also on casualties, which was like from almost like six years ago now. And I think that the longer that we have this lost voice generation, the less able those young men and boys are going to be in accepting this rejection and accepting, I don't know, defeat, I guess. And in a sense, I was on with Pat Campbell right after the shooting. I think it was like a couple of days after the shooting. And this was before I even knew about the girlfriend incident. And what had happened, I guess, just in a nutshell, his ex-girlfriend had broke up with him and then got together with another guy. And there's a series, like this just really almost incoherent screed of this guy saying he was gonna kill him. And he was, even after the girlfriend had broke up with the new boyfriend, he was still gonna kill her because he was the instigator of all of his misery. And really, I mean, if the kid was on edge and he wasn't gonna shoot, this is what pushed him to that edge to go and shoot. And like I said, I was talking with Pat Campbell about this and I told him, I said, this is the results of this lost voice generation that we were talking about last time when we were talking about Jordan Peterson. And we're looking at a generation of kids or boys who don't know how to deal with defeat. They haven't had that, first of all, they don't have a red pill awakening. And then second of all, they don't have any men to teach them how to come back from that and how to learn from their defeat and how to learn from their rejection. And like I've always said, as a rejection is better than regret.  We go out there and we want everybody to feel good about themselves and we're all winners. And we don't teach our boys how to come back from defeat. We don't teach them how to fight back and to be a better person because of their losses because they're never allowed to lose. They always have this, we're like I said, participation trophy generation. It's always this atmosphere of coddling our boys but then in the same instance, we're treating them like girls. We're treating them like, we're teaching them like defective girls. And I think it was Camille Paglia or something who was talking about how we've come to a point where we are teaching our boys as if they are defective girls. Rola, would you say that this kid, Nicholas Cruz, would you say it's an extreme case of kill the beta before it kills you? Or in this case, it kills other people? Well, that's what I meant by terminal beta. I mean, this is the guy that's very socially, and I'm gonna say this word, he's very socially retarded, but I mean that in the clinical sense, okay?  And 19, so from the time he's five years old to the time he's 19 years old, he's had this, what I call what is blue pill? Well, this is part of blue pill. This is results of blue pill conditioning. Let's get Ryan in on this, I think you had a point and I am as well. Yeah, Rola brought up a really good point. Think about this, this guy was screaming for help essentially for God knows how long all those things were going on for.  Now think about how many failures have to happen along the way to get a guy to go 17 years plus planning a murder spree without one guy in his life having the aptitude or the accessibility to pretty much walk him off the edge. Now that's a huge failure of everybody. Now I know we always say it's fathers but it's not necessarily fathers. I'm kind of one of these lost boys. My parents divorced when I was five. I saw my dad annually for like two weeks.   It's trailer trash or just something. Now it's that thing that I wish more people would wonder about an uncle, a dad and the mom is, I mean it's plausible that she'll never get culpability from it but at some point during that she never thought that he maybe needed a man to help guide him through this stuff.  How did she isolate her son for so long from so many, from any adult male that would intercede or something like this like you're saying and walk him off the edge? Yeah and I'm speculating, I see tons of girls that weaponize their kids so dad can't see them because she wants to get back at them. So I don't know if that's this but I've seen it before. A little man did you have some comments with IQ related to this you wanted to get in? Not particularly IQ but what Ryan, how do you pronounce that? Is it Ryan or Ryan or how do you pronounce that? It's Ryan, I don't know why it was spelled different but I asked my mom. That's all right, I'll ask you. Okay, so what Ryan was saying about how he doesn't doesn't know how there could be like no man or like no strong male figure in a young boy's life.  And by soy, I mean a guy who is genetically a man but basically in terms of personality and characteristics just acts like a woman, you know, like basically the guy who is married to a woman but she wears the trousers and everything she says goes and nobody respects this guy, right? So you have a whole generation of guys at least one generation of guys who either grew up in a household where the woman ran everything or there was just no man, any man would have a respectable or a non-respectable man in their life whatsoever.  It was really not good. And obviously, you know, a lot of guys who have not been adequately guided and educated and and teach in life so don't go and shoot up schools, right?  And you see this in polygamous societies as well.  Well, exactly, defective girls, right? So the behavioral standard is comply to authority, be obedient, be high in agreeableness and this makes you a good person, right? And these things are more in line with the fault feminine behavior.  Let's get Donovan in on this. He had a point he wanted to make about common denominators among mass shooters. Yeah, absolutely. I think we all, we're all well aware of the, I mean, there's school shootings all the time, but we all remember the Elliot Roger situation down there in San Bernardino a few years back.  Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hooks elementary school shooter. Song We Show, the Virginia Tech shooter, Andreas Lubitz, the German Wings pilot who killed himself and 150 other passengers. I think it was on flight 95-25. The common denominator in terms of all male mass shooters, mass murderers, is that they are not good with women. It's, and just like, just like Rolo said, it's the term that he coined terminal beta. That's how this works. And I know it seems simple, but you take the average man, if the average man is pretty good with women, right?   He doesn't have suicidal or homicidal ideation. It just doesn't work that way. I said all that to say that game saves lives. We catch all kinds of heat for feminists and white knights and beta bitch boys.  You wanna know something? Exploiting women, exploiting women is what we do. They have put themselves in that position. Again, men who are really, really good with women, even halfway decent with women, aren't trying to hurt anybody. They're just not trying to do that. Another point I wanted to make is that the media almost never points out the role. They never point out the woman's role in the demise of a man. No, this doesn't mean that Nicholas Cruz's ex-girlfriend is indirectly responsible for his mass murder. But when they go back and they take a look at this, just like Rolo had pointed out earlier, when he was telling people to Google Nicholas Cruz ex-girlfriend, we were talking about this off the air, guys. Scott Peterson, right? Scott Peterson, he's as guilty as sin. But men don't abuse or hit or kill women for just no reason. There are, listen, there are exceptions to the rule and those guys are the Machiavellian, psychologically disturbed, they're sadistic. They just like to abuse women because that's just what they do.  You understand what I'm saying? It doesn't work that way with regards to a man just snapping. Now, Nicholas Cruz was a ticking time bomb. Listen, his dad died when he was younger. He was diagnosed with autism and then he lost his girl. And it would seem that guys like us would say, well, hey, you know what, the lack of a father figure is the least of his worries, but that's just it. The media just glosses over the fact that there was no strong male role model in this kid's life. What else? Listen, in a feminist, in a feminist and trench society, what else did you think was gonna happen? We, and I forget who said it, it might've been I am a role or even Roosh, but the basic premise of feminism is removing all restraints from female sexuality while limiting male sexuality. At some point it's gonna reach critical mass, right? And listen, mass shootings have been going on for a while but almost seemingly overnight, they're happening every other month. Some kid or some guy is just unhappy with himself, unhappy with his life because he's not good with women. And again, the media just glosses over it, but then they say things like, well, he was raised by a single mom as a sympathy poi. So as far as Nicholas Cruz is concerned, yeah, he's gonna burn, I think they have the death penalty down there in Florida or whatever. I don't know, whatever's gonna happen to him, but I think it's worth noting that, that again, game saves lives. You have to learn how to deal with women. You have to learn how to sleep with women. And this all might seem very superficial, but that's the truth. Nicholas Cruz was not good with women. This kid had one itis for a woman who then broke up with him. So what did he do to deal with it?  Yeah, I'm gonna cut in there too because that's exactly what we ended the Peterson podcast on when we were showing him talking to Kathy Newman and he was using games. Exactly. It was the same thing. He's doing pressure flips, all a Muse mastery, that kind of thing. Like it's not about picking up women. It's a life scale. It's, I guess you can almost call it, what do they call that, EQ or social aptitude? Yeah, something like that. Game is just the way that we've all framed it, but these things are running in parallel and you're right. You're just kind of showing that the stakes can go as high as you want to take them. Before we go any further, let's get to Carlin on this. So they get something you wanted to add earlier on Ryan's point. Call you there. Well, I've added two to that point now. So, well, the first thing is we're dealing with the first generation after the destruction of the nuclear family. So you have men raised by women and they usually either turn out as complete soy or extreme characters of masculinity like you see in gang culture. Then you have women who are raised by men who end up as tomboy, epic slots or both. Now, historically, men would be raised by not just their father, they would have uncles, they would have grandfathers and everyone around them historically, but as we become totally cut off from our family, there's no tribe anymore. So people are left to their own devices and we see people either formulating their own tribe, which is gang culture and inner cities or motorcycle gangs or joining the military. You find the tribe that suits you and that can go either way, good or bad. And then you have these guys like Harrison Klebold are the best example because they attack their own tribe. They're basically telling them, we should have a higher position within the tribe and they usually tried for years to get that position. And when their idea of their own value is not justified by the group, they decide, okay, I'm gonna destroy the tribe and I'm gonna make my own. Carl, would you say that the collapse or the fall of the nuclear family has also, it sounds like what you're saying is the fall of the nuclear family has happened in parallel with the collapse of local communities, whether it's extended family or other like Ryan was talking about earlier too, like a male influence. Are those two occurring, have they occurred at the same time you think? Well, I think it's coincidental. I think one leads to the other that you start from, once you go from an agrarian society to an industrial society, people move apart, they no longer live in close family groups. And then you get cities where you can live for your entire life and not know who lives next door to you.   Well, I think it's so easy to, you know bring in mental illness because if you read through the logs of mass shooters it's like reading a diagnostic statistics manual that everyone has something but I think the rates at which we're diagnosing mental illness is just off the top. 21.8% of American women can be diagnosed with mental problems within a year.  And that's excluding alcoholism and substance abuse, right? Yeah, that's just, you know the, and that's just the people who can be diagnosed. I mean there are a lot of people who are diagnosed and that is just an excuse for poor socialization too. That's the other point. It could just be societies.  It's just that if you can't teach somebody how to be social, they're gonna be anti-social. I agree with you, Ryan. I think feminism specifically feminism has almost turned boys into social retards. Like when we're kids, when we're little boys we have this natural instinct. We just do what we want. We have all this energy. We wanna talk to anyone and everyone but as soon as a kid shows a little extra energy and I'm using air quotes for those of you guys who are listening and not watching just like I am said earlier then they wanna pump you, they wanna pump them up full of Ritalin and tap down as natural instinct to be a man. They don't know how to exist in the masculine and then when they go undiagnosed and unmedicated I guess correctly medicated and then you catch oneitis and then your oneitis ends up dating somebody else you've got a gun. Of course this was gonna happen. Getting them up for failure and then being surprised when they fail. That's what I'm saying. Believing them for it. Like there are all sorts of women and men out here saying, oh, how could this happen? Are you kidding me? Like the writing has been on the wall for the last 50 something years. Eventually it was gonna come to this. It's an inevitable conclusion. Let's just pause on a minute. Let's just pause on a minute. This has been the writing, I agree with you.  Yes. Can you just kind of reiterate that for a second? Yeah, since the advent of feminism and I said it before and I'll say it again. Among other things, feminism frees women and it imprisons men.  So basically, if you've worked in an office for the last 30 years and said hello to the secretary you are subject to a sexual harassment lawsuit. Like men are now afraid to even talk to women. Men have to talk to women. This is what we are designed to do. And what feminism does with both men and women it has a more adverse side effect with men than women because men we have testosterone more deadly consequences but feminism literally programs women to do and be what they are not programmed to do and be. It's the same thing with men.  So we got men trying to be women and women trying to be men. Like I said before, this is five decades in the making. This again, when I heard about this whole Nicholas crew shooting like you don't even, I think we're numb to it at this point. Like we don't even say, oh my God, like we remember Columbine that was, I mean that was life altering but now it happens every other week and it's because of feminism. Yeah, I agree. It's interesting too that everything other than these issues gets to blame. So it's like guns get the blame. But gun ownership has gone down in recent decades percentage wise in the US. So it's like, why is all this, what is going on? Like what was different in the 1960s versus now? Even at every home in America owned a gun, this was going to happen. Exactly. The only difference is the scale. How big of a body count is attached because guns are more effective than knives cause you get tired of stabbing after a couple of minutes. In China, hey, in China, I think there was a... I don't mean to make light of it but yeah. Well in China, I think there was a recent of like mass stabbing where like a couple dozen people died or something. That's like 20% of people, I remember that. Yeah, this is recent though. That's happened before as well. So it's like, or you can run over someone with a truck.  Oh yeah, that's the thing. That's your side of the bond isn't there? I mean, imagine if all these guys had bags to talk them how to shoot, the body count would be much higher.  What I was gonna say is, hold on, I think a lot of what gets blamed, you know, when it comes to shootings like this, the first thing we want to talk about is guns. The next thing we want to talk about is the mental state of that kid. And then the next thing that we go on to now is we talk about masculinity and we talk about the state of masculinity and how this came to be. And I think that since the Las Vegas shooting, I'm seeing this a lot more and I've even wrote a post about this, how the narrative has shifted now. The narrative is no longer toxic masculinity or qualifying a particular type of masculinity. Now it is all masculinity is toxic. And I was the first thing I predicted would happen after this. And sure enough, if you look at the tweets for, I guess he's a comedian, Michael Ian Black. Yeah, yeah, the New York Times post. Yeah, so yeah, and he had a spot in there and I think it's actually, it's ridiculous what this guy's talking about because he's believing in this, a social convention and these feminist tropes that have been going on for at least the 50 years that Donovan was just talking about. And we want to think that a shooting like this happens because we're teaching our boys toxic masculinity. We're teaching our boys to grab a gun and solve a problem with the gun. And it's the complete opposite of what we're talking about right here where it's suddenly it's men's fault. It's men's fault because there's not enough strong men to teach the kid what's right and what's wrong.  It's no longer boys will be boys, boys will be good humans and that's what we saw during the women's march. That's a race masculinity and a race of the man, right? Yeah, exactly, it's remove the man. And so now that we've removed the man and we have this incident or these shootings now, now we wanna go back and say it's men's fault. So fathers are superfluous up until the point where we need somebody to blame for the actions of some kid who is really the product of an acculturation that has been completely feminine primary. It's been- Yeah, exactly, that is the monster that feminism and this feminine primary social order has created. That's, yeah, exactly. That's the monster that they built.    Nobody else is handling it. So that's basically like the lead Gen Xers in that. Like we'll handle it from here, guys, just sit down. I didn't know this was- Carl, did you wanna add on to this real quick and then Donovan, what do you next? Yeah, I was just thinking about masculine role models because who does the current generation have really? I mean, their idea of the masculine men are the guys from action movies or the guys they play in Gears of War and what do those guys do? They solve all their problems by firing huge guns at different people. I mean, look at Rambo back in the 80s. You have a guy shooting down Soviet attack helicopters without a shirt on, using a bow and arrow. I mean, you don't get more masculine caricature than that. And fun fact, he was working with Al-Qaeda in that movie. That's a mind blow. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, who's that Dean fighting those? Who do you think? Yeah, those are Al-Qaeda, man. Jesus.   Rambo's a terrorist.   Donovan, did you wanna add in something here? I think you had something in the chat you wanna get on. Yeah, yeah. What I was gonna talk about, just to add to Rolla's point quickly, is that boys are taught that they're inherently flawed. From birth, we're taught that if we, we're taught that we have to serve women, right? And if they don't fall in line with the feminist imperative, that's when they're inherent, that's I guess when they're in essence punished. But the point I wanted to make out that I wanted to make was that it was something I talked about earlier. The media never points out the role in the demise of a man. They always, the role of a woman. They always point out, just like you guys said, oh, it's toxic masculinity and boys this and no, we need to look further. And there's no better case than Aaron Hernandez. We all remember him, Titan for the New England Patriots, killed Odin Lloyd and probably killed a couple of people in Boston, but he got off on that. What a lot of people don't realize is when you go to the sports, I forget what website this is on. It's called the gangster and the huddle, okay? And it talks about the life and times of Aaron Hernandez. Well, Aaron Hernandez's mother started cheating on their father with someone else. Not only that, she was running an illegal gambling ring in their house. Then when Aaron Hernandez's father died on the operating table, she then went and married the man that she was cheating on the father with. And in that article, it points out that Aaron was broken at that point. So when Aaron, so when Hernandez gets in trouble at the University of Florida, he kills Odin Lloyd probably killed a couple of other people and killed himself. We all think to ourselves, oh my God, what happened? Where did he go wrong?  Sure, there were other factors at place, but again, the media never points out the female responsibility in these particular situations. They even tried to glorify the fact that Nicholas Cruz was raised by a single mother.   Yeah, it's from my understanding, single motherhood is the number one all-cause factor or influence for like a lifetime of poverty, crime, violence, prison time, all that stuff.  No, Hunter, yeah, you're right, 100%. And what's a corollary? We don't know for sure it's the cause, but it's definitely correlated, so. Yeah, it's the highest, yeah, single motherhood. In that situation, yeah, set up for failure like I was saying before. Yeah, absolutely. Hey guys, I wanna pause real quick. We got our first Super Chat money today, whole $5 from Rob Cruz. He says supporting as a military law enforcement member, this topic is crucial. I also wanna point out that, like we mentioned briefly before the show started, any and all Super Chats that come in live today on this show, I'm gonna donate after the show ends to Jack Murphy with everything he has going on right now. I don't know if anyone could speak to what exactly he's going through better than I could, maybe roll him, but 100%, whatever comes in today, I'm just gonna send to his fund. Yeah, he's going through it. He's going through a real tough time right now, and I wasn't even really made aware of the gravity of his situation up until like yesterday or the day before. I knew he was in some tough shit, but I didn't realize that he was being ostracized from his little league, you know. Yeah, I saw that, yeah. His stuff and his kids and everything. I think it's very important.  I think one of the big, I think he put out a post or something that was very similar to what Ruch put out, sort of a thought experiment about, like I don't know if you know about Ruch, but Ruch was talking about how rape ought to be made legal on private property to dissuade women from going home with men that they don't know. And it was really basically a thought experiment and pretty much that's what Jack, they're quoting Jack for completely out of context. And it's a group of SJWs right now who are just basically running him up a flagpole, get trying to get him fired, trying to basically destroy his life. Do they will do anything they can to basically kill the man? He's basically, he's also on the school board, I think where he's got to, right? Yeah, they're suspended from that right now too. Yeah, and they're totally trying to make him out to look like he's this alt-right white supremacist, you know, neo-Nazi, and because he was a soft target, he was, I will say this, he was easy to hit and they saw that and they went after that. And right now he's got a legal defense fund of some sort and I think he's trying to put together some money to fight actually to, I think he's gonna get a defamation lawsuit or a libel lawsuit, something like that. Okay, we got another Super Chat form now too, another one someone else pitched in. Thank you. What we should do is tap into Hulk Hogan because he is fighting a boxer, is what Jack needs to do right now and leg drop them. There you go, DDT, Hulk of media brother. Donovan, you wanna hop in? I know you had something you wanted to add. Yeah, real quick, Rolla said something about the alt-right. The red pill is now being blended in by the media as the alt-right, okay? So a lot of times when people say the red pill, they think that we're all alt-right extremists, this and that and the other. And I'll tell you what, there was a TV show on called American Horror Story Cult and I actually tweeted this out, I think I tagged Rolla in it, definitely tagged IM in it. And it's about this kid who, he starts this cult and he's this alt-right extremist. Well on his laptop computer in his past, they were doing like a past dialogue section, he had up the red pill reddit, okay?  And so now what the media is trying to do is they're trying to marginalize what we're trying to do here by putting us in with the alt-right. Do we have some alt-right beliefs in the red pill? I'm sure we probably do. But what they are doing is they're trying to marginalize us by saying the red pill and the alt-right are one and the same and I think that's dangerous. Yeah. Well, it comes back to the redefining of what is, you know, red pill and what is not. To me, it's always been, you can watch my 21 convention talks about this, but to me, red pill has always been about intersexual dynamics. And if it's something else that comes along with that, like I said, I only ever do politics or religion or social issues on my site if they have a crossover into intersexual dynamics.  I love them to death when it comes to their intersexual dynamics, but I always have to grit my teeth whenever they go into race or they go into politics or whatever, because that's never been what I've been about. And I think it's also to say that from my perspective, the red pill is a praxology, not an ideology. And there's a distinction that needs to be made between those two because I've been locking horns with guys about this recently, you know, praxology.  Yeah, which, yeah, exactly. How do you put together an engine? Well, you're this and this. I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, you know, guys don't have an ideology when it comes to the red pill, but I'm saying a red pill in a form that I have always been familiar with is always about intersexual dynamics. And so when you get people like the, when you get mig-tows or you get, God forbid, the MRAs or cutesy little cat CJ and, you know, red pill movies. And I mean, everybody wants to be called the red pill right now because all they're saying is that it's the truth that you are realizing now that you've been cut away from the blue pill. The blue pill is whatever they disagreed with and the red pill is whatever they happen to agree with. And I'm of the opinion that it needs to be, you know, a moral, a religious, a political. I mean, it needs to be as an objective as it can possibly, you know, as we can possibly muster so that we can keep. I don't wanna say that we're gonna keep this as pure as it possibly can. No, ideology is gonna find its way into the red pill, you know, in certain ways. But I think that we need to strive to keep it as objective, a loose science or objective praxisologies we can possibly make. And focus, focus on its origins. Right. Ryan, let's get you in next. You had something you wanted to hop in here with the Vox Day. Yeah, just to lead in with that. Like you're right, it's praxisology. It's auto mechanics. How do you put together an engine? How do you pick up a girl? How do you hand yourself socially? And it's funny tying this into the Jack Murphy incident is that Vox Day, who is a hardcore alt writer, as far as I know, has noticed that this happened so often that he was actually able to write a book called Social Justice Warriors, Always Lie. I'm not sure if I'm plugging or not, but I think it's a fascinating read. And it's exactly what's happening to Jack Murphy is almost step by step brought up. The same thing with, what was that scientist name? The one who wore the anime shirt when he landed a comic. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that he had to apologize and all that. He was basically the equivalent of a scientist shooting a bullet with another bullet and then he had to cry on TV because she had a bikini on his t-shirt. Unbelievable, man, unbelievable. People wanted me to sound extra Canadian, so here's a Canadian thing I can tell you, but just get fucked, bud. Yeah, but it's the same thing. And it's a great book for it because it shows, I think it was a Tim Hunt, the guy who said girls weren't cut out for science as a joke and they did the same thing to him, same thing to this guy, it's Robert Fisher, the guy who started the red pill. I think it's such, it's almost a script. And it's something that I would suggest if anybody has any amount of, and I'll use the two pseudo anonymous people we have in this chat, anybody who has any amount of privacy concerns with discussing intramural dynamics, I think it's, it behooves you to read and prepare yourself for these kinds of situations. And final point, Hulk Hogan is actually the fix to it too. The, what he did with Gawker I think is a great roadmap and Jack Murphy should follow his masculine role model of Hulkamania. Yeah, complete with the shirt. Let's get a IM in next, a little woman, you want to hop in? Yeah, shit's crazy, man. That's all I've got to say. We live in a time of chaos. Like why do you, I'm going to take this way out of the immediate and obvious theme and context level theme that's being said.  Like, why do you think that is?  Why are you telling me to tidy my room? Or if he's soy, he'll be like, my room's already tidy. You know, like, you're not going to make a lot of money telling deeds to tidy the room, right?  But like, that's like his main slogan and his secondary slogan is an elaborate metaphor that... The lobster shirt. Yeah, the lobster, yeah, the lobster is it's to do with the bio, the serotonin of lobsters and how we are like evolutionary path diverse from lobsters, like hundreds of millions of years ago or something.  Because like most people can get behind that. Whether your room's tidy or not, you can get behind the slogan, tidy your room. Now, why is this, why is the slogan so... And by extension, Peterson, so popular because people have too much chaos in their life, too much chaos, right?    So why is this so appealing?  Now, I know I've gone on a massive digression, but I think this is important. And I was totally in the field, man, 100%. And I can link it back.  Do you like, you know, they don't have male role models of any kind, whether it's a decent male teacher, a father, an uncle, or even a friend who is like four or five years older than them, right? Like it's not unnatural for like a 14 year old guy to be friends with an 18 year old guy.     That shit's normal. That's happened all throughout history.  So they're not a child, they're like teenagers, like 14 or 15, right?    But that's, there's a rapport there. There's a rapport there.  Everybody knows this, but I feel it must be stipulated. Corporations, like the thing I like about mom and pop businesses, even though they're less economically efficient and do not obey the market, is that they love their employees more. They love them, they treat them like human beings.  You're not like super detached from them. You're not like five degrees attached from them. There's not like them, a supervisor, a department manager, a regional manager, an area manager, a CEO, and then you. You don't have all these like degrees of separation via hierarchy between that person and you. You're the owner and you're more in touch with the people you employ, which means you humanize them more. The more degrees of separation there are between the owner slash CEO and the employees, the more you dehumanize them and just see them as conduits of profit generation. And I'm not trying to sound communist or Bolshevik or socialist, by the way.   And this happened in the Soviet Union as well.    I know I'm digressing, but I'm making an appointment. We're gonna take your land and we're gonna give it to people who are less capable than you because that's more egalitarian and more ethical. And what happened to the USSR? Used to be a superpower. He's not a superpower anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. But you know Ukraine, right? That, what we think of as Ukraine now was the USSR and if you think of the USSR, what was it synonymous with? Russia, right? Russia's current borders are not as extensive as its previous borders when it was the superpower, when it was known as the Soviet Union. When it was known as the Soviet Union, basically everywhere, including Poland and East of Poland, all those geographical regions were basically all Russia. They were all the Soviet Union. And this includes Ukraine. In Ukraine, now they make an estimate. They don't have extruding accurate numbers, but somewhere between 2.5 and 12.5 million people. And they don't have an accurate number and 2.5 million is the floor. 2.5 to 12.5 million people in Eastern Europe died, died because of famine, because of genocide. And do you know how that was caused? Under communism and let me be more specific. And do you know why this happened under communism? Because the highly effective farmers who had more money than everyone else and were too privileged. I am, let's pause for a second and let's get Paola Carlin on this for, he had a point he wanted out on yours. Carly there? Yeah, I just wanted to add that there are certain things men are just kind of supposed to know and this is one of the things we have served with game. Women want a man who just gets it. Right. And other men expect a man to just behave in a certain way.   Because these guys have been pushed towards being cogs in a big machine that just wants them, teaches them the bare minimum of what they need to know. Show up at work, do your job, go home, get drunk, watch sports, get up the next morning and go back to work. And no one's told them to how to be men. And this is where we get a market for the man-a-sphere. I mean, the six of us are sitting here. Would you say that men are basically given the skills today and taught how to be good slaves? And that's it? Because that seems to be what you're kind of putting out. Yeah. Yeah, we're told exactly what you need to do to work a nine to five and barely that. We're not told, well, think about the tribe again.  Because if you have one weak dude who only knows how to gather berries, he's not gonna be much help when the other guys show up with spears. Now we don't really, we want men to have the minimum amount of knowledge they need to do their job, but not so much knowledge that they realize that, hey, we're gonna work for 45 years, then we're gonna retire, then we're gonna be miserable until we're dead, we're gonna be married to the same woman, we're gonna be get divorced, we're gonna not never see our kids, we're gonna pay child support and alimony and not have any money left, and then we're gonna die. And that's just a cognitive machine. It's not a real life that has value. Before we continue on, I did want to point out we got another super chat from SPI Latino. Said just cause the law says that these men are guilty, like Jack Murphy doesn't mean, well, not the law in that case, but I think this is what he's referring to. Doesn't mean it's right or actually true. Everyone forgets to add agency to the equation. With that said, is someone else gonna hop in here? I think Donovan looks like he wanted to hop in. Yeah, I just wanted to make a quick point about what I am was talking about. I read a book a while back called Outliers. It's by Malcolm Gladwell. And there's a concept in there that he talks about. It's called the power. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I would highly recommend reading it. It's unbelievable. Anyway, there's a concept in there he talks about called the power distance index. And I think that's what I am was, I think that's what I am was referring to when he was comparing mom and shop businesses to the big corporations.  I just wanted to jump in there and maybe give a name to what he was talking about. You do not want to live in Cuba. Cubans don't want to live in Cuba. Why do you think Miami is Cuban? Cubans don't want to live in Cuba much. Dude, listen, listen, man, I see this all the time. When we talk about illegal immigration and this and that and the other, whatever your stances are, that's fine. But listen, if I'm a Mexican and I'm living in Mexico, right? Dude, I'm sneaking across that border every goddamn chance I get, bro.  Let's perform a thought experiment for a second here. No. I'm not going to get too complex. All I will say is if I'm a Mexican, I will do everything, everything I can to enter America. Hell yeah. And why would I do that? For a start, you're taunting me because you have a state called New Mexico and I live in Mexico. Wow. Right? So everyone thinks New is better, right? So I'm just in the normal place and you have the new place literally on the other side of the border. There you go. Are you moving to New York then or? Well. Is old New York. Good, good, good.  Dude, seriously, they make it easier for Mexicans to move into your country than me. Like if I wanna move to the US and I'm not gonna get, I'm either A, not going to marry an American woman and I know you all have opinions on that already as I say it, but it looks like he's gonna be implode. Don't get me started dude, don't get me started. It is kind of astonishing that as a Brit, it's not easy for you to move to America. Like our country literally came from your country and now there's supposed to be some special relationship.  Why can't you come here? I mean historically there is and if you look, if you analyze the United States, the more like the northeast, the northeast United States where the Brits are mutually colonized and the Americans rebelled. I mean, this is the funny thing.  A very small tax too. Sure it was. Exactly.   We want our own thing.  No, honestly, I respect the revolutionary spirit. I do respect it, but even with a bearing in mind even if you look at it now like genetically, demographically, it's mostly constrained to the northeast region of the United States. Like if you look at the northeast region of the United States, it's mostly European. It's mostly white. If you look at the southeast, like Atlanta and Georgia and all around there, it's more black. If you look at Florida, it's kind of Latino. If you look at the Southwest, it's Latino. Why is Florida Latino? Well, because of... Yeah, because they're 90 miles away from Cuba. Yeah, Miami. Right, so Florida is basically because of the Cubans, right? And there's an immigration policy in place that said you can come here. Like if you arrive in the US, you can stay here.   We need more people who are gonna vote for us because we give them free stuff. So if the Mexicans come here, we will invent the concept of sanctuary cities and just let them... Like, look, that is... You know, that's... Well, they consider themselves in those sanctuary states. But I am nothing against Mexicans, right? That's completely traitorous. That's literally traitorous.  It is nothing like what's going on in California. In Mexico... It's hardcore. Yeah, it would do. It's something for like Panama or Guatemala or Bolivia or whatever, wants to move to Mexico. They are worse than ICE. If they find you in Mexico, they will like, you're not Mexican.    And the Democrats, what's happened with the United States is it's become more and more Republican over time. And the Democrats realize they're gonna lose power if they do not import people from Latin America. And the only reason people from Latin America vote for the Democrats isn't because they're soy. It's because they want free stuff. Yes, there is a vested interest. Yeah. Yeah, and the Democrats will give them free stuff. And the lower IQ people in society, right?   Yes, you are. It's okay. I'm not saying I'm not an asshole, but it doesn't mean... You're in good company. It doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't true. The lowest IQ people in society, right? That I like to say someone you would employ to, let's say, clean your house. Obviously, you want to trust them if you don't want to distill your stuff, right? But those kind of people, those people you would employ, they are having a harder time in the United States finding employment, gainful employment and not claiming welfare because people over a similar IQ level to them who are willing to work for less are coming in from another. But here's the thing. Smart people like me, and I'm not the smartest person, by the way, I'm not trying to big myself up there. Way many people are smarter than me. But someone of at least my intelligence level is not adversely affected by third-world immigration. They're not displacing what I do because they cannot do what I do. But the poorest people in your society, just think of Americans that you love and care for, right? They either work in a factory or they do cleaning or they clean cars or they work in a fast food place or whatever they do, whatever they do, they're Americans, right? They will lose their jobs to people from the third world who, to be more specific, I mean, for the US, it's Latin America, predominantly Mexico. We do have non-Mexicans, right? They will lose their jobs to these people because they are not... So you have a minimum wage. So they will take the minimum wage but then they will work off the record. So they will do additional hours that aren't charged.  Okay, let's kind of back up and let's focus on some, actually, some audience questions. We had one I posted in here. There's a few more in the chat as well. Rolo, if you want to start with this one, this was from Bar Bears Ferry. It was the name that came by. Do feminists want to kill young men? Is there a conscious effort against men or is it a byproduct of something else? I get a lot. I actually get this question quite a bit. Is do they want to kill men? I don't think that that's necessarily their end goal but I mean, really, when we look at the suicide rates of men right now, five times the amount of women, no woman in her right mind is going to say, yes, I want to kill men. I do think that feminism has a vested interest in disenfranchising men and making them as weak as possible. I think that feminism has transitioned, really, from being a one message, I guess, and people keep saying is first way of feminism or second way of feminism, those were the good feminisms and now we're in the new third or fourth way of feminism where it's bad. And I'm like, no, there's a guy I follow, I can't remember his name right now, but he was making a case, making the argument that feminism has always been the same feminism as it was today, as it was back in the day.  And I'll let you guys debate as to whether that is a good idea or not. However, you also have to understand that it is men's complicity in that movement that has got women to where they are today. However, it's my opinion, and I think yours as well, Anthony, is that feminism today is a hate movement and it is no longer feminism, it is now female supremacism. And we can see that in black and white, whenever we see the next women's march, we're gonna see an anti-gun march pretty soon, I believe on the second weekend of March. And you'll also see a Earth Day, global warming march in April. And we just recently saw the kids walk out of school for gun law reform. And if you look at all of these marches, these organized marches, they're all organized by the same people, the same organization. And really, it's the women's march, it's the future is female people. And do I think that they're trying to kill guys? No, but I think men's deaths are sometimes the byproduct of that.  We don't have a special month dedicated to male suicide like we do for breast cancer. But yeah, we not only don't have marches, we don't have almost anything for that. We barely even have awareness of this fact. Right, because- I mean, what I'm talking about on the show is rare. Yeah, well, it goes back to, once again, is that men are disposable and people accept that. They accept that men are supposed to sacrifice. And we were talking about this last time and we were talking about Peterson. He gets off on this, you know, life is suffering and men need to sacrifice and we can get to a better place of men just sacrifice more. And that's one of the biggest problems I think I have with Peterson is that it's all about men being disposable and not empowering themselves and not building themselves up and not pushing back on this. You know, this morning I was talking to, I think it was talking about how, you know, we need to push back on this. I don't know how you're gonna do that. Like I said, I'm a praxology guy, but how are you gonna do that? What was that? Like the answer is no, if we, queen in country, you wanna fight for the queen, like World War I, World War II, you can get disposable men and they'll be all for it, but the end result has to be something that's somewhat beneficial for at least a majority of us. I think that's where your problem is, is not that we're supposed to be disposable, but we're disposable for something that's not even, not only not in our best interest, it's completely the opposite of that. It's actually against us. Yeah, well, I'm gonna be disposable as a 17-year-old kid. So some girl can affirm of action, get a position in my company to show diversity, and then I have to sit on welfare, or I can't get welfare because I should be working, but you get what I mean though, right? Right, well, it's that's, men being disposable, men killing themselves, men killing their families, men grabbing an AR-15 and killing 17 people, we're seeing a byproduct of this. And that's the thing that pisses me off the most when it comes to Michael Ian Black or these people who rely on this old, old social contract narrative. It's all about how men are chauvinist and men are hitting boys and bullying boys into being tough guys instead of embracing their femininity and embracing their sensitive sides and being more feminized.   I just put out an infographic about how few men are in education these days. Now they'll turn that around and say, well, it's men not stepping up and not men not manning up and being the teachers. Well, yeah, but the thing is is here's the other, why would they do that when they can be accused very easily of sexual harassment for anything, for anything whatsoever, for reprimanding a kid? Can you imagine a male teacher reprimanding a girl, a young girl for a dress code violation or something like that? Imagine that. The people in the room door wide open, maybe. It's not that men aren't manning up and this is in general, it's not that they're not manning up. It's that the incentives are gone. What, why would you do that? The risks are too high for them to step into that. You look at even Jack Murphy's situation right now, it is dangerous as a man to speak. It's dangerous for all of us to be on this channel right now talking about what we're talking about because you could lose, I mean, I see why Carl and I am are anonymous and I was very much anonymous for a very long time because I had to be and now I'm in a little bit more anti-fragile position right now but I still gotta be careful because even though I don't have to worry about somebody firing me, I do have to worry about somebody making threats towards my daughter or my wife or God knows, anybody in my family. So I gotta be very careful. Even if you just got docks, your house could just get wrecked with like 500 pizza deliveries. Exactly. So it's not, yeah, or it can get swatted. I was gonna say, listen, the pizza delivery is not quite so bad. I just wanted to add that up. Well, I was just gonna say is that it is far more dangerous for men to quote unquote, man up and to get into, push back against this kind of stuff than, but it's an easy out. It's easy to say, well, they're just gonna make an appeal to men's honor. We're gonna say, well, if you were a real man, you would do X, Y and Z. Well, X, Y and Z serves your interests. So why am I gonna listen to you and why am I gonna go in and get into that? But maybe I'm going off track a little bit here, but I think that it's dangerous. I'll chip in here. Yeah, it is dangerous. I mean, I'm 29 years old and I'm effectively unemployable at this point. I'm now, I'm anti-fragile and I've been that way in my entire life, thankfully, but I'm 29 and I couldn't get a job at a real corporation of any kind if my life depended on it. For what? For speaking the truth and finding speakers who care to speak on these issues in public in whatever way you can.   And I'm pretty well accomplished in my age and can't get a job or couldn't get one if they wanted to. When we were doing the 21 convention, first thing I told you is that I was concerned about security above everything at the 21 convention because I was worried that it was gonna be from the outside. I was concerned that we were gonna have protesters. I was concerned also that it was gonna come from the inside. So you look at it, it's your anonymity is great to an extent. And that's one of the things I really hate when guys say, well, how come you don't show your real face? How come you don't put your real name on it?  That's why. No, no, no, but hold on. Let me cut you off there. The reason they say why don't you show your face? They know why you're not showing your face, but it's almost like they're taunting you. They're asking you a loaded question.  It's almost like someone, and I have a little bit of an anger problem. I can't stand it when people honk their horns at me within the safety of their cars. Dude, I am 6'1", I'm 230 pounds, and I got a temper problem. Dude, if you were not in your car, you would not be honking your horn at me. So when people say from afar, well, why don't you show your face? No, you know exactly why I don't show my face. Don't ask me loaded questions.   They know why you're not showing your face. Carl, did you want to hop in on this? You had something you wanted to speak to a minute ago? Yeah, I just wanted to kind of go through a little bit on the history of feminism. It was sold to men as a non-zero sum game. Like, oh, if we get the vote, if we get to work, that's better for us and it's better for you. But when you see it that way, a non-zero sum game is where we both win. A zero sum game is if I win, you lose or vice versa. So if you start to look at it, okay, so custody. Women get custody, men don't get to see their kids. Who ends up paying out the alimony? Who loses most of their assets in a divorce?  So we have a situation where after 50, 60 years of being sold that, hey, we both win if we do this, women are more miserable than ever and men are killing themselves at a higher rate than ever or going on shooting rampages. So at one point- The top end men are winning like a motherfucker. Yeah, but the top end men aren't going around killing people either. Don Avenger, wanna hop in on the question we had as well from the live audience? First, feminism is- We haven't, hang on a second, the audience doesn't know what it is, let me read it off.  So this guy named Shanks asked, I have a question, if the bottom part of the male hierarchy is always going to lash out, how do we prevent that from turning into mass shootings given that we can't do away with the hierarchy? Wow, okay, well, I guess I'll briefly answer that question and then talk about feminism.  And I think I am spoke to this, when we was talking about a polygamous society, the reason why a polygamous society wouldn't work is because there would be more men without wives, without love than men who have those wives. There is nothing more dangerous than a frustrated, within a sexually frustrated beta male, right?  Sagan? Arab Spring. I mean, that's what started that too. Even though Vegas shoot or two though, I mean, we've probably been talking about that when it's tweeting about it, when it's happening, yeah.   Feminism is indirectly survival of the fittest.  Feminism, women think that this is what they want, but just like Carlos said earlier, nobody wins with feminism.  Listen, as far as our society is concerned, the feminists have won. They literally have absolute power. They can get everything up along the way.  And just like Carlos said earlier, they're getting custody 85% of the time.  And the reason why women wanna get married and men don't is because women have nothing to lose in a marriage. Men have everything to lose.   This is why men are not getting married. To one more point here, feminism, they want all of the benefits of masculine agency without any of the costs. They want our help. They want our muscles. They want our ingenuity. They want everything that we have to offer without giving up the pussy. And it don't work that way. You're gonna get all of the masculine agency from all the beta males, but that's not what women really want. They want the alpha males to help them out.  And when the beta's finally get winning, you know what? What I'm doing is not really working.  I wanna get into another question here we got from a super chat, donation to Jack Murphy's legal fund. This is from Is Why Not? His question was, what do you guys think about herbivore men and low birth rate phenomenon like in Japan? There's no feminism there, but also no masculinity either. Open to anyone, Rollo. I think Japan is a very interesting society because it's based on working, like people that work 24 seven, they actually have their own word. I think it's Karashi, which is a word for dying of a sudden heart attack or stroke while at work. Oh my God. And what happens there is, it used to be that you worked 24 seven so that you could get to the top of the dominance hierarchy, you'd be rewarded with wife, family, et cetera.  Who wants to spend 24 hours a day working? Nobody. It's incentives is what it is. You gotta understand, they look at the culture of Japan as insular. So they're very stuck in their ways or very insular is the best way I can say is they're an insular society. Now, is feminism there? I would also argue that feminism in some way, shape or form is in Japan.  Hikoromori or something like that, I can't remember.   But I mean, they've got a word for that as well too. But I think really what it is is, I mean, we're talking about a culture that has gone from the age of the samurai and the Bushido Code to boys dressing up like girls where we have waifu now or they've got a little pillow that they pretend is their waifu, which is, I mean, you look at just how sad it is, but there is still that want, there's that want and that desire, that natural want for have that connection with the woman. But again, what Carl was just saying is that the incentives are gone. So it's like the society, the herbivorous men of Japan, it's like the society of mig-taus, but if they didn't go mig-tau because they were pissed off at women like everybody likes to say they are, they did it because it was just simply the most pragmatic, practical way to solve a problem for them. And dealing with women, that the juice wasn't worth a squeeze for them.  Like it's literally something that's supposed to be, you know, a substitute for a wife. Like that movie, like that movie, her starring a walking, exactly, exactly. And so when you look at that, the desire's still there, but the incentives aren't. And it's like the reward is like, it's more worth it for them to check out than it is for them to check in. So it's not like here where we have, I mean, I'm sure that there's some pushback and I'm sure there's some de-masculinization that's going on, but I think that if you were to ask most of the women in Japan, would they like a positive, strong, masculine, dominant male, they'd probably love it. But those guys don't exist because those guys don't see it a payoff. They don't see a cost to, you know, a risk to cost benefit there. So I think that that's probably the difference from those guys, you know, the guys who qualify as MiGTOW in Japan are not the same guys that would qualify as MiGTOW here in the United States or in Europe or wherever else. That's interesting. I never thought of it that way. Donovan, hang on, let's switch to Ryan. He's got some important points on this that he was tweeting about the other day about Japan. Yeah, so funny thing about Japan. Japan was a very masculine warrior, homogenous culture. It was at the point, if I remember correctly, my story is like YouTube research level, but at the end when they were starting the fire bombings, it was at the point where every man, woman and child. Now, not just the guys, the women and the children, the elderly were all mobilized for war to the point where they were ready to fight the American army with like bamboo sticks sharpened up. It essentially took a fire bombing of 80% of the country and two nuclear bombs to, I can't think of a better word, but sterilize the population. So I don't think it's not feminism created her before men, but it's essentially a neutering by a different mechanism. And so it took all that. Eventually had to say the emperor was no longer godlike and all the plans, the Marshall plan and that. And so you put people in this situation where something essentially robs them of their masculinity.  Hedonism, I want to say nihilism, but not in the sense that as Nishi put it, where nihilism is killing your God so you can make your own God in your own image, but not get in that second half of that. So it's essentially just like despair or, so I would say that. So not, so Japan didn't have feminism and this goes back to that guy's question. They didn't have feminism, but they did have a giant neutering of the average male. I guess if that's a good way of putting it, does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Carl, did you want to add on this too or back to Rola's point? Yeah, I just wanted to kind of work my way back because both the urban women and the MiG-Tau are coming to the same conclusion. They're saying women are not worth it because the risks of it outweigh the benefits. And if we go back to it, I think that comes down to the fact that Rolo covers in saving the best and Betis in waiting, which are two of my favorite essays of his, recovers the fact that a beta male spends 20 to 30, maybe 40 years of his life building himself into the man society tells him he needs to be, he needs to get his degree, stable job, house, car, income, et cetera.  And every guy has seen this play out in his social circle for at least 10, 15, 20 years. Now maybe with their dads, their uncles, their friends.  Right. Well, I was going to add onto this real quick is that when we're talking about MiG-Tau's, we're talking about guys who think that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Yeah, I think what you're right is it's the incentives that back that up right now. So I think what we're seeing right now with the MiG-Tau movement and the Time's Up movement, we're looking at an even further polarization between men and women.  Oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was Arianna Huffington. And it's like, we're going, hey, oops, sorry, we don't want you to be so afraid of working with us.    And so what it is, is now this is shame, there's this masculine shame that says, if you don't mentor her, then you're not a man. Then it's making that appeal to that masculine sense of duty.  And so now we're going to make it appeal to that fear. Yeah, we're going to ask you. Rolla, I want to ask you, you mentioned gender relations a second ago, gender relations, do you think we're seeing kind of the culmination of a collapse in gender relations between men and women at every age? Oh, without a, oh, my bad. Well, I think we're approaching that. I don't necessarily think that we've reached that point right now. I think there's going to be even further polarization. And I think a lot of that goes back to what we started out talking about here, which is masculinity is no longer toxic masculinity, it's masculinity is toxic. And that right there is one more manifestation of this polarization that happens between men and women. So we talk about polarization between political factions and we understand that. We talk about, you know, the distance between red and blue.  And we say that we are more politically divided than we ever have been before. And also what we don't really acknowledge right now is we don't acknowledge that there's a divide between men and women. And the reason for that is because of the last 40 or 50 years of feminizing men and masculinizing women and putting women into a position of entitlement and expectations of an old social contract from men, but then also expectations that they're going to also abide by the new rules, which is female empowerment. And so the guys who aren't familiar with your work, Rolo, when you say men and women, you mean that across every age demographic, every religious demographic, every, everything across the board. Well, yeah, a lot of guys will tell me, well, that's not the way it is in my country.  I would challenge guys to, you know, to show me where those women are so oppressed that they're not getting education, that there's not some manifestation of the feminine imperative in those cultures. Yeah, it's not, it's certainly not going to be like it is here in the good old USA, but I will guarantee you that even in those countries where women are classically oppressed or even in Latin countries where men are expected to be men, I could show you left or example of how the feminine imperative still uses those. That's the thing about the feminine imperative. It is fluid in being able to redefine itself to work its own purposes in. People think that the feminine imperative and feminism are just some new, you know, new social movement that we've come into in the last, like, say a hundred years. I would argue the feminine imperative has been, you can trace the feminine imperative all the way back to chivalry, all the way back even before that, where like, if you ever read, if you ever read the Artist Seduction by Robert Greene, he goes into how women actually, you know, I think the quote was, men conquer worlds and women conquer men. And so the power behind the throne is always a woman. Behind every successful man, there's a woman. That's the trope, that's the, you know, the meme that we always are taught. But yet when it comes to oppression, when it comes to women, you know, not feeling like they have all the rights and all the equality that they want, that's when they'll fall back on that rather than saying that, you know, rather than recognizing that women are an underlying authority for men. So when I talk about the church, for instance, people say, well, isn't the church completely run by men? Isn't it always been a patriarchy within the church? Yeah, but not up until now. I'll tell you right now it's women who are running the show because women are the primary consumers. So they're the primary people who are gonna show up and go to church and drag their husbands along and use his income as a tithe check. So who are pastors going to, you know, a pand or two? It's gonna be the women in the congregation. So progressively we have seen this feminization and this assimilation of feminist, feminine imperative social values creeping into the church on, you know, in so many different ways right now that we're getting to the point where our faith and our doctrines are beginning to become defined by those feminine principles or those feminized principles. So that's just one example. But like we're getting back to the point here is that there is going to be even further and further polarization. So there's gonna be guys who are gonna see it and they're gonna get it and they're gonna push back against it. And then there's gonna be the guys who are the allies who are going to go along with that because they think that that's their key to getting laid. That's their key to reproduction. That's their key to getting married. The Vichy male. So things go along. Exactly, so you're seeing this polarization right now. And I think that that is part of our social condition right now. Okay, Donovan, did you wanna hop in on this real quick? Yeah, just a couple of quick points. First of all, to Rollo's point, listen, women have no religion. Women don't really believe in anything. Women believe they follow whatever the strongest men believe.   That's been proven over time.  Mike Pence, I think now has an open door policy where he will not meet with a woman in a closed room at any time without someone else there. The only female that he will be alone with in one room is his wife. They've pushed it way too far. But the bottom line in terms of, the bottom line of feminism, and it's sort of manifested itself into this hashtag me too movement, they want it both ways. They wanna be able to use masculinity when it's convenient for them, but then turn it off when it's convenient for them. You cannot regulate masculinity. This is what feminism is trying to do.   This is what they want. My third point, somebody said in here, I think Rollo Echoed him, said the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Well, that's what this ridiculous Daka Makura, the pillows that the Japanese men are marrying. Guys, it's not worth it anymore.  I can tell you, man, it was great and it was fun and this and that and the other, but it's just not worth it.  It's not worth the cost, the time, the energy, the everything that you have to learn and be just to sleep with women these days, it's not worth it. And this is why we now have this debate regarding sex dolls.  But the reason, women, the world over asking, well, why didn't men, why all of a sudden do men have to have sex dolls? Well, the reason they have to have sex dolls is because it's not worth it to pursue you guys anymore. Beta males who are in cells, right, in voluntary celibates, they have realized that, okay, it is way too much trouble getting pussy from real women. Like, they've tried everything.     At least she's not fat.  She's not gonna complain. I'll do that.  That's what I'm saying. This is why more guys are going towards sex dolls because it's just women are not worth it anymore. Sex dolls don't gain weight. No, they don't gain weight, right? You don't, listen, you don't have to feed them. She doesn't complain.  I mean, dude, like, what's not to like, right? 100% loyal, 100% loyal. 100% loyal, and no, hold on. I don't want anybody on here talking about Donovan has a sex doll. No, no, no, no. I do not own a sex doll. I don't listen, man. But I under, what I'm saying is that I understand why men are now going the way of sex dolls and we can rationalize it and laugh about it, but this is what the guys who are buying this stuff, this is what they're thinking.  Oh my God, yes. I got one thing to drop in here and then it kind of comes back to what we were talking about last week and I saw this video. I had no idea that it was such a controversy, but it was Jordan Peterson in one of his classroom situations where he was talking about the Weasley MiG-Tow guys and how MiG-Tow guys were trying to convince young men not to get married and to just swear them off of having to deal with women in any way, shape, or form.  But he, I think one of the, one of the, I guess it's the results or the reactions to this is that he is trying to get guys to not listen to MiG-Tow and to get back on the plantation and to get back into marriage and it's like the complete role reversal because if we don't, then all of Western civilization is going to collapse. So I think it's interesting when you look at the MiG-Tow side of things and what we've been talking about and just even just verbalizing the fact that maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore. And this is coming from a guy who has, I've been married for 21 and a half years. I have a great marriage. I love my wife very much. And some of you guys have met her but I'm going to tell you right now the juice is not worth the squeeze not by today's standards and not by the institution that marriage has become today. Black Labelogic, Carl, you're up next. Yeah, the first is to flip and comment I was originally going to make on MiG-Tow because they actually asked the Russian foreign minister I believe what he thought of MiG-Tow and his comment was, well, it's men's job to sexually harass women and it's women's job to resist which is possibly one of the reasons why Russia is doing slightly better. And on the Jordan B. Peterson thing Rala was touching on, I think it's very interesting that a man who's so much into the Bible is actually taking the role of the pharaoh in Genesis. I'm just waiting until the wave hits the Tragicons. Brian, when you want to hop in, go ahead. Yeah, do you remember last podcast when I said I'm pretty sure that Jordan studied game?  Somebody sent me a link and he was talking about pickup artists. He called them pocket psychopaths or training psychopaths. Something like that.  So he does know those skills and when he was using those there I can tell either psychology took from him or he took from psychology. And to tie back to your way original point about the school shootings and the guys having no outlet and eventually just lashing out. I would hate to say it but the mystery method is probably the best way to stop a school shooting when you think about it. I mean, if you think about it it's like a problem solution standpoint. Mystery is essentially able to stop school shootings. The same way that Hulk Hogan is able to stop vicious stalking. Well, the real question I wanted to talk about. So what you're saying, Ryan, is Venusian arts, not AR-15s. It's like if you go into a gun store and ask for an AR-15 to give you a three week boot camp with mystery instead. I guarantee you had that kid learn some game and somebody had told him, don't worry about it.  She's not worth it.  It sounds flippant, but you know I'm right. Yeah, I think you're right. Like it's so far outside the mainstream to say that but I think this is a very simple truth, yeah. Yeah, and we can even make it super personal. Like Anthony, we all know your story, the Medusa, that divorce and private marriage thing like that. Had you not learned game?  There's a lot of, yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of guys that would have been in a position with a BPD or with someone with a disorder that would go that route. I have no doubt. David Tien was one of the guys who now went public in a video. One of her, he was a speaker who also had a cluster B experience. He nearly killed himself. And given his purple pill status, I'm not surprised he almost killed himself. Yeah, and so a small point, a lot of the guys at the married red pill, they wanna know like I have sons, what do I do with this? Oh yeah. So I don't have kids myself so I can't say to that. But I will say this, as a dad, I would say one of the best skills you can teach your kids is to have game, frame and boundaries.  Granted, if she takes your kids, you can't see them, but two weeks, that's still a two-week window that you can work with them.  You can teach them. Yeah. That's the situation that you're in. There's nothing you can do about it. You can't change it. You make the best out of it. But yeah. Broly, do you wanna comment? Oh, go ahead. Broly, I was gonna say, as a father, do you have any comments on the shooting or the recent shooting in Parkland, just from that perspective? Kind of like if you and Hunter were on the show right now. It's funny you should say that. Hunter and I actually just did a show over on Craig James's podcast about two, three weeks ago. As a father, it's hard for me to really relate with this kid because I have a daughter and she's been raised by a red pill. I mean, she's been raised by a roll of Tomassi, okay? So for me to say that, my nephew has been an alpha male since the day he was born.  So my nephew is really solid when it comes to that. So he's the only other kid that I know who I've raised from, helped raise anyways from a child to adulthood. But I think that what scares me the most is just the degree of, or the combination I should say, of autism or Asperger syndrome. And even as mildly as that is, or however we wanna, if we wanna diagnose that as a problem or just a social retardation as a problem, you combine that with blue pill conditioning.  It takes a village to raise a kid, the village raising a boy to be a girl. It's a point where we're at with a transsexual boys wanting to become girls in much, much higher numbers than girls wanting to become boys. We're at a point where we're going to introduce hormone blockers so that they don't have to actually become a boy. We also teach them now the complete opposite of what Michael Ian Black was talking about, where it's like raising a boy is just tantamount to bullying him until he's 18 years old. I think that when we think of the reverse of that, where we're teaching our boys to out-emote each other and to out-feel each other and to out-identify with women against each other. And you take all of that and you mix that together and you put it into a generation where these kids, these boys have never known defeat and women and girls are always better. It's there the correct ones. If you do it like a girl, you're doing it the correct way. And we're to the point where we're going to sedate our boys for ADHD because they're not acting enough like sweet little innocent girls and we're expecting our boys to be just as mature as girls because girls mature quicker than boys, right? And so you take all of this and you mix it all together and you put it in a guy who is part of the trophy, the participation trophy generation and he just gets hammered flat by a girl. Yeah, how is he going to react to that? He's got access to social media that I'm pretty sure nobody in this chat has had since they were born. This kid's what, 17, 18 years old? So he was born into the communication era, the internet era. And we're expecting him to have some self-control and to have learned something that men should have been teaching him and we can always blame it off on men. But it's a cocktail, basically, of conditions and circumstances that are going to lead to a mass shooting like this. But we don't want to call it that. We don't want to draw any attention to that. We want to say it's gun control or we want to say it's toxic masculinity or we're going to try or it's because he was on antidepressants or there and maybe that has something to do with it but we're going to say he's crazy. So it's gun control, he's crazy and toxic masculinity. Those are the three go-tos and I guarantee you after the next one of these that happens and there will be another one. That's going to be the progress. It'll go from he was crazy, gun control, toxic masculinity. I think that's the end game is toxic masculinity. Eventually toxic masculinity is going to be the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in our society. Well, let's hit on this point too. There's something I actually brought down before we even started the call today that I want to ask all of you. Roller, you can go first if you want. So from my understanding with this mass shooting, there was a long-term massive failure of government on every level from the public school he went to with the administrators being tipped off about screw behavior and stuff like that. That was potentially violent. Local law enforcement visited his house multiple times, multiple calls over the years. The state of Florida, Child Protection Services, they got involved somehow, failed. The FBI failed, they were tipped off twice, multiple times, or a couple of times with reliable tips that included his real name and then they came back and said they couldn't identify Like he said, I'm going to be a professional school shooter. And it said Nicholas Cruz.  So I want to ask you guys, how has feminism over the past 50 to 80 hundred years affected the bureaucracy in government or how do you think it relates to this? Because this is like, this is an incredible failure of government on every level from like super local in the school, local state, federal, how has feminism affected or increased bureaucracy in government through voting or anything else? Can you guys speak to that or does that question make sense? No, that makes all that, I've got a short, quick answer. Feminism has affected government in that women are taken care of around every corner. If a woman is a victim of domestic violence, there's a safe place. If she needs mental help, there's a safe place. There, the government is, the government does not seem interested in helping men or boys. Nicholas Cruz didn't fall, listen, they say Nicholas Cruz fell through the cracks. There were no cracks for him to fall through.  That's what this comes down to. All the girl has to do with say, at six years old, I'm not happy. And all of a sudden now she's in therapy, she's in counseling.  So, but with boys, right? If a boy says he has a problem in school or if there's something emotional that he's going through, whatever the case may be, it doesn't matter. There's no place for men to turn to. This is why the red pill is created because there's no other place for men to turn to. If Nicholas Cruz had Googled, why do girls get over break up so easily? Or how do I sleep with beautiful women? I can promise you, the school shooting wouldn't have happened because he would have found the red pill at that point. But the main reason, the main influence that feminism has had that could have prevented this particular incident from happening is that the government at the state and the local level are so focused on women and what they can do to help them. And there are problems that men get left behind. And Nicholas Cruz, to me, is the physical manifestation of that failure. Rolo, yeah. That's part of the, you know, now we're talking about mental health issues. We're talking like, I think that's also one of the, you know, like we say, oh, well, he's crazy. Well, I think that, you know, there's been a push recently to, you know, to emphasize mental health issues for these guys. But what they're not gonna talk about is they're not gonna talk about men being zeroed out. They're not gonna talk about men having five times the rate of suicides as women. They're not gonna talk about that. They're not gonna talk about anything that will reflect as unflattering to the feminine imperative. Right. They're just not gonna do that because, you know, that's why we're talking about guns. That's why we're talking, you know, I should also point out here that for all of the miscommunication and for all of the warning signs that were there, for, you know, they had now what it was, four cops were on the scene and all of them just waited until it was over to before they would go in guns blazing at all because they didn't wanna get shot. They held out. We have, we had warning after warning. We had, you know, visits to the kid's house. We had all of this stuff going on with, you know, with these threats to the ex-girlfriend and the new boyfriend of the ex-girlfriend. We had all of this going on, but what happened after that? And if you look at this, I don't, I'm not buying it, but when you look at how quickly they, you know, this, I don't wanna call it the left, but these people who are at, you know, who are the organizers of the march, who are organizing the women's march, who are organizing, going to be organizing the future marches here. Look how quickly they were ready to capitalize on this. It's almost, and I don't wanna put on my tinfoil hat here, but I'm gonna say if I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say that they had this in mind and they knew something like this was going to happen. And I'm not saying they engineered this, but they were sure as shit ready for it when it happened. And they knew that it was going to happen. And so what did they do? Suddenly CNN has a town hall meeting about this where they're feeding these kids, you know, prescripted questions and responses. Well, fortunately, CNN's not known for feeding questions. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's no way they would do that. There's no way. Of real news, yeah. Listen to your point, Rolo, and I'll let you get back to it. Is it not amazing how quickly they were on the ground out there having these discussions with these kids in a room about the shooting? It's less than 24 hours later and you've got, and you've got David Muir sitting in a room full of teenagers talking about the experience. And I didn't even know about the scene. The bodies are so warm. That's what I'm saying. And it's like, and I don't know if this is true because I'm just speculating here, but from what I've read, they've got a couple of kid actors who are like what are called crisis actors. And I don't know if that's been debunked yet or not, but I will say this, those kids were ready with talking points from the word go. That's right. And they knew this kid. Everybody on campus said we knew this kid was dangerous. We knew if it was going to be anybody, it was going to be him. They said that literally. And what did they want to do?  And we're just simply not going to talk about that because that would mean we would have to take some responsibility for the feminine imperative. We have to do that. But as we all know, our society has no interest in placing any kind of responsibility or accountability on any person walking around with a vagina. That's right. And ultimately this kid is a child of feminism. Right. I think is at the end of the day what the hard core truth is, yeah. That's single mom. Oh my God. He did this despite being raised by single mom. No. I don't just mean that. I mean just past 50 years, like you were saying before, Donovan. Sure. He's in an environment where these other factors happen, took place and coalesced into actions. But at the end of the day, American living, I live in Florida. I grew up in Florida.  Right, great. It was a few hours from that kid was. No one from my high school shot up and shot the school up. Like, it's getting worse. But then we all had like worse of bars. Yeah. Carl, did you want to help that? Yeah, I wanted to go back to your original question about feminism and governments. Because if you look at democracy as a governing mechanism, the way we have it now, it's like the ultimate female way of doing things. Everything has to be decided and everyone has to agree in a group. But there's also no one who has to stand for the decision.  And that got me thinking about accountability because if you look at it, there's no accountability in the public sector. You have the Rotherham case where they covered up for years that hundreds of girls were being groomed and raped.   The cops let him take the guy back to his house and kills him. And I'm just asking, why is nobody getting fired here? Isn't there some kind of incompetency or problem here? Yeah. Sorry, I'm tuning in like 15 different things, guys. Someone will hop on that. Yeah, there's not.  And it makes sense. I don't wanna say it's because of women coming into the workplace.  People have worked hard to make the systems that they're in lack the accountability because they want safety, they want security and the byproduct of that is when these kinds of situations happen, nobody gets blamed in the situations where we need accountability. So if feminism is sugar, this is the molasses, the school shooter, the lack of accountability, the whole thing. And I wanna call it, I think it's a conservative talking point, the unintended consequences. So I don't think it's a purposeful thing, but it is there and it is a consequence. Let me just chime in here real quick. There's this great quote that I always quote from Dalrock and it's what I call the roller coaster quote. And it goes like this. He says, these women don't want just to build a better beta. They want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way that they're trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit. They want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip all the danger signals even better if he's a stranger from a strange land. They want this all to happen without giving up their freedom. They want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy. So they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose control to a string of strangers who have all the hallmarks of very dangerous men and they want a promise that this will always end well. Or they want to know that this will be safe without it losing its excitement or feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing while knowing that just behind the scenes are grownups are there and actually in charge and are responsible for them feeling safe. One more. A contract and 50 seats agree. Exactly. Well, one more thing. Is as I mentioned above, they don't want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actual amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimic would appear. They want to be driving the car on the freeway one instant and then the next experience the fear of careening out of control. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. Roll over. All they ask is that you're guaranteed that all of this will be safe. These are almost exactly literal scenes out of the new 50 Shades of Grey movie, the final one of the trilogy.  Like, yeah, I mean 100%. I think that this goes to what I was talking about earlier, women want all of the benefits of alpha males without any of the costs.  Listen, you can't have it both ways. If a man knows he can get pussy, guess what?  There's no such thing as a monogamous alpha male. It can't be done.  And a lot of times even then he slips up. You cannot have one without the other. Just like you said earlier, or like I was talking about earlier, they want to be able to regulate masculinity and you can't do it. And the reason you can't do it is let's say that there was this mythical Christian Grey out there. If Christian Grey really existed, whatever the bitch's name is that, I don't even know. I've never read the books. I've never seen the movies or anything, but whatever the chick's name is, she wouldn't really be attracted to Christian Grey as soon as she married him. Why? Because a tamed man, a kept man is an unattractive man. He has lost his edge. He has lost his feralness. He's lost his freedom. Women want all of the benefits without any of the cost. And it just doesn't work that way. I am. Can you comment? I think I saw you tweet about this recently and maybe Rolo as well. The disappearance of the noble patriarch kind of disappearing over time in American culture, the Western culture for that matter. Cause it's kind of like what you're saying, Don. I've been like, yeah, alpha men are not inherently monogamous. And if they can get pussy, they're gonna get it. But they still have some control over their own actions and behaviors. And then they might still slip up. Oh, sure. But that guy is disappearing now. That guy who's like, all right, I can do this, but let me not do that.  When you, it's just, it's not worth it anymore.  It's just not worth it anymore. So that's why alpha males say, you know what?  I am hoppin. You got something put in?   Right. Like it would be terrible.  Like we would not live in a civil, because there's no women here, we are capable of logic and we know that this does not lead to sanity and order and a healthy and correct society. And I know correct is a subjective term.  Right? Like there's a degree of order to it.   I understand why they think and feel like this and I like expand on this more. It's that prior to feminism, most women were virgins when they got married, right? So they weren't promiscuous.   You know, there'll probably be some doubt in your mind why is she really a virgin? But prior to feminism, it was the opposite way around. Most women were actually virgins before marriage. Most women were not promiscuous before marriage. Most women actually, you know, they had, I mean, most feminist women do not have fathers in their lives and if they do have fathers in their lives, their fathers are soy, right? So if you have no father, and it's the same for boys and girls. If your father is soy or you have no father, you may as well have no father because you do not have the, it's about, it's like ying and yang, right? Masculine feminine. If you have no father in your life or you have a guy who is basically embodied and adopted the feminine in his life, then as a, as you say, like the offspring or like the student of that individual, you do not have that masculine energy. So you suffer because of that. So most women, the reason most women are not adequately feminine these days is due to a lack of masculinity in their lives. And it's the same reason why, and that there is an extra, sorry, I have too many thoughts linking at the same time. But basically, it's the same reason why a lot of guys are soy. They don't have masculine father figures in their lives. However, there is an additional factor for boys that does not include girls, which is that the, due to the chemical revolution, we have endocrine disruptors, chemicals in our environments. Well, let me put a Cathy Newman on you. So what you're saying is the presence of a male is not the most important point. The most important point is the presence of masculinity, which the soy fathers are not going to bring. Okay, so one would think that the, yeah, exactly, exactly precisely. And one would think that a father is synonymous with masculinity and it should be synonymous with masculinity. And throughout most of history, it has been synonymous with masculinity. But at this current moment in time, it is the least synonymous and synonymous by synonymous. I mean, equivalent to, it's the least equivalent.  Having an older man in your life, he has an XY chromosome is insufficient because, and I'm sure Rolo would agree with this. That man has internalized the feminine imperative and he agrees with feminists and his primary viewpoint is that of what is good for women and how can he be good to boys and how can he have a boy's primary interest because he sacrificed his own masculinity interest. And I'm not trying to be divisive or polarizing whilst I'm saying this. Masculine and feminine are both legitimate energies within all people. Men embody a smaller degree of femininity and like healthy men, they have a degree, like if you can't empathize with your woman, if your woman is sad and you cannot sympathize with her and you cannot relate to her in any way, then you don't have any feminine energy.  Like if you understand the yin-yang symbol, you know that yang, and I'm probably getting too abstract, but yang has yin with it, within it, yang has yin within it and yin has yang within it. So the masculine has a little bit of feminine energy and a feminine has a little bit of masculine energy. But what we have these days is supposed symbols of masculinity who are just saturated, completely saturated with femininity and they claim to be masculine. And that's what I think. Does the average guy have joco white as his father? He doesn't, like a suit, like a lot of modern boys do not have a father at all. If they do have a father and you have to- He's nothing like Jacob. And you have to rate that father, like that father's masculinity on a rank of one to 10, like he would rank a woman's attractiveness. Like, where do you think the average father ranks on a one to 10 level of masculinity? Like, dude, I'm telling you. I'm telling you.  Yeah, that's true.  Dude, and their hero is Milo Yiannopoulos. Just buttoning it up there. Well, you know what, let me just- Hold on, just one second. I was just gonna say is that when, what you're talking about right now sort of goes back to what I got into in positive masculinity, in that we teach our boys at the earliest possible ages right now to take themselves off the pedestal and put women kind or woman kind on the pedestal, meaning that I'm always a big proponent of mental point of origin. And I think that one of the key factors in guys unplugging and really becoming red pill aware is putting themselves as their primary mental point of origin. But what I don't really get into too much, actually, I probably should write a post about this, is that we teach our boys these days to put women as their mental point of origin and we're constantly making, and so you've got these kids, these poor boys who want to be girls desperately. I mean, that's one of the reasons why we have transsexual boys wanting to be girls. It's more advantageous to be a girl. Exactly, if you, I mean, I haven't looked at this and I'm taking a very wild guess here right now, but if you look at transsexuals, if you look at the statistics, like the comparison between males to females and females to males. Males to females. Yeah, exactly, that's what I was going to say. I assume males to females is far higher and you know why? In your life, great social acceptance. Yeah, here's a, here's a.   You will probably, you will probably do it. Well, here's, this gets to that point too. Just recently there's, there's been this kid that's in the news, he's in my Twitter feeds and he is this 10 year old boy who has been encouraged and groomed to be the heir apparent to RuPaul. He's supposed to be this transsexual drag queen kid who is, he's got his own, he's got his own dance show. He's got his own dating service there. And all they're doing with this kid is having him on the back and telling him, you go, you go, you go.    We will say that that's the worst thing in the world and I can't believe men are all about this and they'll just say this is abhorrent but a kid, a boy that does that will praise him for that.   If we get some guys who served in the US military here and have done it through in Afghanistan, they would tell you in Afghanistan and a lot of, this is the thing. Men who serve in the US military do not have freedom of speech but we don't even have a first amendment in Britain, right?   US soldiers, US soldiers who have served a tour in Afghanistan have seen- Canada is the same thing. It's balanced against the balance against the needs of the public or some wording, some soft language like that but same thing in your military, you lose that.  Like if you went back 500 years, right? Like a priest all the time.  Like in this society, and I don't mean this as a fight against Canada. I mean this as like a full experiment, right? We can pretend we're talking about Britain, right? Cause I'm not even, I'm not trying to get in a nationalist angle about this, right?  What is it, Trudeau? Yeah. Oh God. Captain Soy. Yeah, Lacoste Galli. But he doesn't, you know, he's not Trump. He's not Putin. He does not, you know, he doesn't want to stand up for your country and like defend your land, does he?  And you think, no. He does not represent the electorate, which is the single job of the executive branch. Dude, the current leader, the current leader of the UK is a fucking, some chicken are like fifties, all right? I like that. And the leader of the UK. The leader of the UK is fine, the leader of the UK is fine. I mean, your leader's a guy, but I mean, he's not really. Gentlemen, before we begin winding this down, I wanted to ask open to anyone, but starting with Rolo. Rolo, this is based on a link that we shared earlier. I don't think we hit on this in the call yet. How will the feminine imperative and feminism spin a mass shooting that happens by a teenage girl? As almost recently happened, there was a link on it in ABC News. Girl's father turned her in because she was prepping physically and planning things out, shooting up her school. How do you, eventually, that's probably gonna happen. How do you think, do you have any thoughts on like how the, you know, mainstream media will respond to that? What if you- I think that the feminine, Amy, you're talking about that girl who shot up the schools? She almost did, her father. She almost did, yeah, yeah, there was that. There was that, you know, it's funny, you showed me that story, and then I, now that you mentioned it, it was another story where a girl had actually shot up a school. Okay. And I think it's interesting how they sweep that kind of under the carpet, but I think that if that were to be the case, if it were to be more girl, like say a few more girls decided that they were gonna go and shoot up the school, I will guarantee you that they will spin that story to make it sound as if the girl had been bullied or the girl had been driven over the edge, you know, how cyber bullied. It'll be a cyber bullying kind of thing. And then it will be girls have to deal with so much these days and it'll be this plea for understanding and acknowledgement. It won't be anything about femininity. It won't be anything about a toxic femininity or anything like that. It'll be like, you know, one more, it'll be one more victim for the victimhood, no. That's what it'll be. Okay. Anyone else wanna chime in on that? Yeah, I think it's gonna be film on Louise. Yeah. Dude, you watch that. Remember it was at Monster was the one and she was like this horrible, was like a female serial killer. I can't remember. It's been a while now. Do you guys remember the movie I'm talking about, right?  Just gonna be ignored. They made her an ugly chick and that was the focus that a pretty girl would play somebody not pretty because she was that good of an actor. So it's gonna be completely ignored and it's gonna be used for some other girl to make her bones guaranteed. Or it's just gonna be ignored and nothing will come of it.  I know, I think Bob Gildoff's probably gonna write another hit about it. For those who doesn't don't get the reference of the Cleveland elementary school shooting was perpetrated by what's her name? Brenda Ann Spencer. And Bob Gildoff wrote a song about it called, I don't like Mondays.  Are you looking that up right now? I am, I'm like. No, I, turns it into a barfield.  Well, I think that one of the things you always have to consider when there's anything that's ever unflattering towards women, the spin is always to cast women in a victimhood role. So it's not a woman who, and we've talked about this in several different blog posts. And it's, do women have a moral agency? Do they have a rational agency? Because, and I've written like I said, a couple of posts about this, but there's a difference between agency and hypo agency. Now are women just these beings that things happen to? And that would be hypo agency, or do they actually have an agency? Should they be held responsible for their own actions? Do they have any kind of conscious choice in what it is that they're doing? Because generally when something bad happens or something unflattering happens to the feminine, it's always because horrible evil men put them into that position. And they had no other choice, but to do with the things that they have done. Now the counter to this, and I butted heads with a lot of trad cons about this, is that it is men's fault and they're taking that side. It's men's fault that we're in this position that we're in today. And from a certain respect, I understand that, but I don't think that it is entirely men's fault for the social conditions that we find ourselves in today. Because what that does is it makes women just these ambiguous hypo agents that things just, well, it's all but our fault for the victimhood of women. I don't see that at all. I think that once the sexual revolution hit and once we unfettered hypergamy, we had a rise in abortions. We had a rise in divorce rate. We had a rise in... Sing a motherhood. Yeah, sing a motherhood, divorce laws. Everything that I can point out legislatively because of that, you name pretty much any issue that MRAs or McTows have, that's when that started. Now, is it men's fault? Or is it the nature of women that's prompting them to that? And I think that it's probably a little bit of both. I do understand that men need to at least, they need to be the most dominant voice in the room, but most men won't do that for a lot of variety of reasons.  And then a guy comes around, such as myself or us or anybody in here, and we want to say, hey, look, that's not the way it is. Those guys get shouted down. And so is that because men didn't man up and they didn't take responsibility for women because they need to have their responsibility taken care of? I've got a post that's called Our Sister's Keeper. And if you wanna dig in more to that, it comes back to personal responsibility and Tradcons love personal responsibility with anything, they love personal responsibility. So, but the personal responsibility, even for those guys, is not on the women, it's still on the men. And feminine imperative will be happy to exploit that and will be happy to use that. Rola, how does what you're talking about now tie into equalism and the absolute parody that a lot of equalism, equal parody, that a lot of purple pillars and Tradcons will also cling to if they don't just go that route. I honestly think that feminism today is really just the religion of equalism or it's meant to be. Equalism is sort of a farce. It's sort of the cover story for, it's feminism and equalism are the cover story for a feminine supremacism right now or female supremacism right now. We want everything to be equal. And women, particularly in the hemisphere, on that side of the margin, want to say that they're not responsible for things but then they still want to enjoy the idea that they are strong independent women. So, what is it? But mentor me too, mentor me, mentor her. Yeah, mentor me as well. And it comes back again to, they want an equality of outcome, but they don't want, they want both an equality of outcome and an equality of opportunity. I can understand an equality of opportunity, fine. But with that comes the responsibility of accepting your losses and accepting the damage that comes from those decisions that you've made. Women don't want that, they want an equality of outcome. That's why we say, well, only like 5% of 4 to 500 companies have a female CEO. Well, is that a problem between, is that a problem of opportunity or is that a problem of outcome? And I will tell you right now, more and more when we look at women getting into positions of power, we look at them going and serving in a political capacity or women going to school more than men right now, women graduating more than men right now. And there's a lot of details and a lot of nuances to that, of course, you know, what are they majoring in and everything else. When you look at that, you look at the opportunity, the opportunity is there. When you look at Title IX, when you look at all these advantages and all these concessions that we make for women and we actively disadvantage men, you cannot claim that it's any more about sexism or any more about, you know, a lack of opportunity. But now what they want is they want an equality of outcome and that one does not stem from the other. And so I've got another post called, you know, with a lie of equality and that sort of comes back to that is like we're assuming that equality exists in the first place. We're presuming that equality is in a vacuum and that environment and challenges and everything else that would affect and equal footing from one to another are fair, okay? And that's simply life isn't fair. Environment's not fair. So how can you really have any sort of, you know, equality? I can't play professional basketball. I'm only, you know, six foot. If I was seven, well, am I gonna say it's not fair? Please lower the baskets for me so I can dunk. Well, that changes the nature of the game then. It changes it so I can compete. And, you know, but is it really the same game? No, it's not. And that is exactly what women right now. They want to have the baskets lowered. They want to have everything accommodate their own personal strengths. The military is a great example of that too. Exactly. Yeah, they do that. There's all kinds of standards that are being lowered and stuff. Oh, in Canada, we have a fitness test. Now it was the old fitness test that was there before I left. But the female standard, and it's a shuttle run, stop some beep test. I won't bore you with the details, but the female standard was so laughably low that it was almost like the, it was laughably low. It was very hard to fail. And even then the failure rate was higher than it should have been. Mind you, we were Navy. So we're the fattest element. So much more equality. Yeah, well, and they've already done that in the United States now too. They have like completely changed the requirements. And there's one requirement for men and there's one requirement for women. But the ultimate test is how are they gonna serve in a combat capacity? Oh yeah, you guys hit that beat.  But they're changing those standards. And I'm sure that our enemies aren't changing their standards. Of course. Yeah, and do you remember that trad thought that had the argument with Rouge back in the day? It was something like, if the alt-right wants women, you have to accommodate that. You remember that whole thing that started his little rant about that, right? Well, there was a Marine officer who did the same thing saying, if you want more female Marine officers, you got to be more accommodating. And it was weird how in that Tradcon Rouge thing, as well as the Marine artillery officer thing, they had the exact same argument that, do you want women here? Well, then make it more accommodating, make it work for us. As opposed to a mission focus, it's a person focus. Which for the military, it's something that just does not work. Because you can't not focus on the objective and expect to be effective.  They will get killed. We're ignoring a reality so that women can participate. And again, once more, it goes back to that roller coaster quote that I quoted from Dalrock. They want to live the danger. They wanna be out there, but they want to know that behind the scenes, somebody's gonna make sure the parachute opens and then they're gonna be okay and they're gonna be safe. And now they are taking that to the extreme of, dropping or wanting to change the game of military combat. And the irony is it's late sexism. Yeah, that too. It's a buffer because our technology is good enough. I'll give you a question of the thing there. About what? Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, the question of the thing is the fact that I don't think 50 caliber machine guns got the feminine mystique. I'm not sure it was aware that they're not supposed to hit women. Yeah, that's the thing though. 50 cows on a Toyota truck, that's the enemy. We have, the West has way higher technology. So we have a buffer there that you can essentially be less effective as a combat unit because fighter jet will be to pick up truck any day. But at some point, like if you're getting to like an Iraq insurgency or that situation, that's where the issue kind of matters. And that's why I'm worried that this frontline female troop thing that the Americans just passed, I think you guys passed it last year. I think the next occupation that happens, God forbid it doesn't, I think that's where you're gonna see the consequences of these decisions coming in. And it's not gonna be pretty. And the problem is like everything, men are gonna be blamed. That's right. I was gonna actually ask you. And it is that fault. Every guy that's in a decision-making capacity said, yes, we want women there. So it is technically their fault, technically. Speaking of war, before we close this out, I wanna ask all of you guys, how much longer until we get revisionist history being mainstream to blame masculinity for like every war ever, or at least all the wars in the past 100 years, both world wars at this point. We're still, like it seems like it's already happened. We're seeing the beginnings of that. So can anyone, Rollo, Black Labelogic, can you speak to that? There I am. Nobody reads history anyway. They'll just watch it on a 10 minute YouTube video. So whatever gender studies guy wants to make a YouTube video with some cartoons, that's what's gonna work. It just comes to mind. Like, you know, Rollo talking about toxic masculinity becoming masculinity itself is toxic. It's like, you know, any war that's gonna happen in the future, for example, I'm sure masculinity is gonna get the blame from day one, day one. It's already getting the blame. It's got the blame for everything. Yeah, go ahead, Carl. Go ahead, Carl. I'll come in later. No, I'm just gonna say it's gonna be interesting to see how the story of the Trojan War is going to change, because that was essentially a story about how masculine virtue versus masculine vice. You have a guy who kidnaps his one-itis and you have her alpha coming to rescue him. And it's going to be interesting to see how that changes from a historical perspective because those are historical events. Oh, I mean, we already wanna, we wanna change those events. We wanna change those to be a little more PC, to be a little bit more publicly palatable right now. But I think that when it comes to, a lot of people say, well, what we need is a new war. We need another war so men can be men and women can finally understand the reality of their situation and the wake-up call is gonna be when we get into another war. And I'm not of the opinion that we need to get into another war, okay? I think that we can find ways right now to push ourselves back up into a positive masculine role. I think a war would certainly facilitate that, but I don't wish for a war.  Exactly, and everybody wants to say, well, you're just all about to enjoy the decline. No, no, I've never been about to enjoy the decline. I am. Objective, when you say war, people are thinking of physical dimension. They think of men in trenches, getting muddy and getting bullets fired at them. War isn't one dimension. War used to be one dimension. Now it's multi-dimensional, right? So what does war consist of? It's one religion trying to displace your religion. It's an ethnicity trying to displace your ethnicity. It's another strong ideology of another nation, let's say communism, trying to displace capitalism. It is across all dimensions and all aspects. It isn't simply masculinity versus femininity.  So it isn't simply masculinity versus femininity, although that is an important dimension. It's multifactorial, right? So there are many aspects to this. So in a hundred years, I mean, I don't like the us versus them and I would like a world where everyone is rational and logical and considers things and tries to tolerate one another. But in a hundred years from now, honestly, what do I think people will look back at history? They will see who was most successful a hundred years ago. So that's predominantly Western European and the North American powers, not really Canada, mostly the United States. And they will say, yeah, those guys were assholes and what were they genetically comprised of?  That's what they will say. And they won't look into it anymore. They won't look into it anymore. That's how they will discriminate. And they will not be feminine in that because if they are feminine, they will not replace you because femininity does not have the energy for conquering. Femininity obeys and it gives and surrenders to anything that is strong enough to dominate it. Yeah, to dominate it, to conquer it, right. So even though masculinity and femininity is a very important dimension, it's not the only dimension. And honestly, I wish it was the only dimension because then we could just basically make TRT mandatory for them and we would just dominate everything. But unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. Well, you know what I was gonna say is that, hold on a second. I was gonna say is that whenever you talk to women and it comes down to issues of say like the draft, how men have only been the ones who've been conscripted. I mean, in this country anyways, I'm gonna talk about Israel or anything like that. We look at that, women always say, well, if women were in charge, then there would be no wars. Then there would be no conflict because women would come together in peace and understanding in some rational way. And they would wanna say that all the wars in the past have been the direct result of men and masculinity and talking and if men would just give us the reins of power, we would show you that, of course, and you can't prove the negative, right? But if you think of the British Empire, do you know who led the British Empire of women? Name is Queen Victoria. She hated the feminists and she hated lesbians. And you can find, you can Google this, right? The leader of the British Empire was a woman who hated feminists and lesbians. She thought all feminists should be whipped. You can Google quotes on this. I'm not making this up. If a guy says, if a guy in 2018 says, all feminists should be whipped, right? That guy is probably gonna lose his job and lose all integrity and credibility. And yet the British monarch 100 years ago, there was a woman who was saying, all feminists should be whipped. They don't know their role and they're innocent. I'm not joking.  Google this, right? Queen Victoria did not like feminists and she advocated domestic violence against feminists. I'm not making this up.  That's probably gonna happen, right? The other thing that they ignore about this whole thing is they ignore the fact that, we have certain countries that are more egalitarian. We have countries that have feminist government. So we look at Sweden. We look at the state of Sweden. Look at the state of Germany. Look at the state of, and I will just say this. You look at the state of, sorry, but Canada. Make me the press roller. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you look at the more feminized, look at the feminized countries right now and look what's happening to those countries. They're being overrun by, they're being overrun by more dominant Muslim refugees right now.  You don't like Islam, whatever. You know what, it is a relevant factor, but let's just disregard that for a second to get around people's prejudices and a philosophically correct condition. It doesn't have to be Muslims. It can literally be any culture or any religion or any force that is more masculine than your culture, right? It's policy actually in Canada. Have you guys not seen this? It's called the Century Initiative. Look it up, centuryinitiative.ca, I think. The, there's a Canadian think tank whose plan is to triple Canadians population by 2100. Yeah, I've heard of those. So three generations to triple our population. I guarantee you they will not achieve this aim by encouraging the reproduction of British. No, it's all immigration. It's flat, it is not. Right. You can read it yourself. I believe in you. The problem with this is they do not take IQ into the equation. People who do not take IQ and just think, oh, we have a low population and we have a low reproduction. Yeah, people are all interchangeable. Yeah.  Why is it there's a few places in the world where there's all this success in money and other places where there isn't success in money? And you've said, Well, I can't tell you to be taller because I'm eating better. That's the same argument. Well, obviously it's masculinity's fault for all these people.  Do they invest them well? Do they profit from them? Do they have a compounding effect in that? But all right, if I take, if I steal $100 from you, all right, and I make it into $1,000, then I've probably done something quite well, right?  What you're looking at is that I got my star, I got my base from exploiting you, right? Now, if a dumb person, right, let me put it another way. If a very, if you think of lottery winners, right? Lottery, when most smart people are speaking to do not play the lottery, they don't. They invest and they work hard. They do not play the lottery. They don't, they don't really gamble much. They don't play the lottery. They don't do scratch cards. They do not do any of these things. That tends to be a lower IQ phenomenon, right? So, and if you listen to the stories of people who have won the lottery, they win a lot of money and they're poor within about five years, right? They don't invest it. They don't use it to create a business. They have all this money that they didn't earn. They won it. They got lucky and they spent it all and now they're miserable, right?   This is nonsense. This is completely not, I guarantee you, give any human, any group, whatever on the planet, $100 million right now, right?  And this is what Western civilization, as it is right now, is constantly berated with.  If you invade someone, if you conquer someone, I'm trying to go off topic too much, but if you invade... Yeah, we gotta start winding down in a minute. Okay, besides, Black Pat, they're totally rebuts that. Hey gentlemen, we've been going for two and a half hours. I think it's time we start winding down. First of all, thanks to all of you for coming on and Donovan as well, who's here for most of it. As far as websites and links, guys, they will be underneath the video for all these speakers. You can check it out right after the show. I'll update the video. Same link, you guys can watch it. Before we get going, Karl, Rollo, Ryan, do any of you have projects you guys kind of want to announce right now? Upcoming blog posts, project, anything like that? By the way, with Rollo, we just published his first ever 21 convention talk yesterday. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm just gonna say that that's up for free now, so if anybody wants to have a look at that, I'm probably gonna put a post of it either today or tomorrow. Link is already in my Twitter feed, so if anybody wants to go see that, it's about an hour long, something like that, and then my next one's coming up in the membership, the membership side of things, and then that'll go free as well, so that's coming up too. And right now, I'm just working on the fourth book. I'm doing research for the fourth book, and it's gonna be a little bit more targeted towards the religious guy, the spiritual guy, and I'm trying to reach out to the guys who I think have been really sort of misled by religion and being raised in a very purple, and purple pill would be nice, but in a very blue pill perspective, and I'm gonna be taking that to task. A lot of people know that I comment quite a bit on Dalrock, and if Dalrock and I were to write a book, this would be it. I asked him to co-author with me on three occasions, and he's not into it. It's probably because he just does not want to be, he doesn't want to lose his anonymity, and I can understand that particular in this day and age. So I'm going it alone, but I'm not going it alone. I've got a lot of other guys helping me out from sort of the Christo red pill, and I shouldn't say that it's gonna be entirely about Christians, it'll be about religion in general. So that's coming up, probably not till next year. Count me in for promoting it. I think it'll be in the promotion scene. Speaking of Rolo's books, this is third book, The Rational Male Positive Masculinity, the most recent one published last year. This is also what his second talk at the 2021 convention focuses on. I joined Rolo on stage myself, and he focuses on these issues about the entire talk. That second speech is coming soon to 21university at 21university.com. You can watch it there for free with a 30 day trial, or it'll be on YouTube in a few months after that. Ryan, did you want to hop in on this? Anything else? Yeah, you were asking that people let things to plug. I want to plug how Rolo was saying praxeology. I don't have projects. To me, this was the hobby, it's life hobby. There's 10,000 guys on married red pill, 250,000 on the red pill. We're like an ad hoc think tank. And so I just want to articulate that. This is how guys will build knowledge. By just talking with each other, swapping notes. And I'm kind of, and I like to think that's why Rolo had me on the 21 convention, and you guys invited me was just, I'm kind of the example of how that articulates in the world. Guys talk with each other, guys spread notes, and this is just a collection and it goes out. So, yeah, no, I'm in it. I'm not in it for the money. I'm in it for the end result. Yeah. I mean, that's how all convention started. It wasn't supposed to be a conference. It's supposed to be a meetup where we basically swap notes and ideas. So, 100% then. Yep.  I'll put links as well to the MRP and the red pill underneath the video. As for Carl, guys, this is his book, Gender Nomics. My personal copy.  It's on Amazon, just like Rolo's book, Amazon.com. So you can get both books on Amazon. This book Carl could speak to. He put it out last year if he wants to. I've read almost all of it, 90%. I do need to finish up the last bit. Carl, do you want to speak to your book a little bit before we roll out? Yeah, speaking of all the offense you've probably been causing, I'm personally offended you haven't finished it. Yeah, no excuse, man.  It's gonna get done though, 100%. Just like memo, right? You get at least a memo, 100%. Yep. I should also say that Donovan has his own YouTube channel. And he's had me on there before. He's had Elimitable Man on there before. He gets a lot of good interviews. Definitely worth the subscription. So if you want to go check him out, I think you can just find him at, what is it, DonovanSharp on YouTube? And you'll find him. There'll be a link as well in the video guys. All the YouTube channels, Twitter accounts, all that stuff, we're gonna load it up. So with that said, thanks so much for tuning in live. Everybody watching, everybody joining in live. Also thanks for the super chats. I think we got over 20, 25 dollars in that. I'm gonna send all that to Jack Murphy for his legal funds. And that's it guys. Thanks for tuning in. Tune in next time. I've had about two weeks from now. And appreciate it guys. All right, thanks a lot. We'll do it again. Yeah, stay on live, stay on your guys. I'm gonna end the live broadcast.