This is our last episode for the month of June where we explored the topic of first impressions. We started out with a toolbox episode, we delved deeply into body language, and we had a fantastic interview with author, coach, and ultra athlete Jesse Itzler. And today we're going to answer your questions as well as share some secrets from two style experts. To help us navigate through the questions our audience has submitted as those we received during our boot camp weeks, where first impressions is the first topic I teach is Melissa Chantaine. Melissa is based here in LA, where she's a style expert among many other things. It's great to meet you, Melissa, and have you in studio. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started in style? Oh, wow. I actually started my career in corporate healthcare marketing, which seems so far from style, but I really wasn't happy. And being in the corporate environment, I always felt there was a pressure to appear a certain way, and my passion was always style. So while I was working full time, I made a transition by shadowing stylists and assisting them while I had this full time job in California and eventually transitioned to be a stylist. And I worked with celebrities, worked in TV, worked on movies, and really just found my passion was helping people, and this arose after my sister unfortunately committed suicide about eight years ago. And with that happening, I realized that there was such a commitment for women to find confidence through style and self-love. And working with talent, that really being an image maker and projecting this body image and image that really wasn't authentic to who they really were, there was such a disconnect, and that's where Melissa Chitain style was formed. I felt that there needed to be alignment where everyone could feel confident through style and love themselves. Well, I'm sure our women, our female audience is going to love hearing your perspective today, and I also know that the guys are going to love to hear your perspective of least how they can straighten up that first impression and make sure that they stick out a bit and get noticed. So we're excited to have you with us today. Thank you. And with that being said, I just don't only work with women, but that's where my style styling started. And then now I work with men, women do a lot of bridal and on-camera work and really just want to empower people through style, confidence and wellness. Right on. I know a lot of our audience is in that point in their career where they're thinking about a transition, thinking about leaving the corporate world. And obviously you made quite the jump outside of the corporate environment. So I'd love to delve into that a little bit more in terms of what that transition was like for you. Were you able to get both things in the air and started or did you really need to just dedicate to one and make the switch to style? Well, I think the way that I did it was slowly, but surely I knew that I needed to have money coming in. So really I had the flexibility of having a sales and marketing job where I can make my hours, but then have this evening weekends of dedicating myself. But it really takes commitment. They're all hours of the day, weekends and nights and just really putting in the time and hours. You say you need to do like 10,000 hours or something to be perfect at it. I mean, I really did put in the work, but when you want something hard enough, you will do it and creating a block, building a brand. And that's what really first impressions is about. It's building a brand and name for yourself. That I really stepped away from people knowing me as Melissa Corporate Girl and really creating myself as a stylist and putting that out there into the world and consulting on the side if I needed to for extra income. But really just building that brand of styling and empowerment has just been my focus for the last over 10 years. And we're going to have a great question a little bit later today about that digital first impression and how important it is to present yourself well online, not just in real life. And I love that idea. I know it's something that Johnny and I talk a lot about that commitment and pushing things aside to get that side hustle off the ground. You know, it's not about having this amazing lifestyle brand and working four hours a week and keeping all these things moving. If you want to start something, if you're thinking about making that shift, then you're going to have to commit time outside of your full time job to do that and sacrifice friendships and sacrifice some of these other trips and things that your buddies are going on. You nailed it on the head. It's when people are, you know, you see on Instagram is the FOMO. It's when people are like going to Malibu wines and hanging out and doing the day drinking and stuff. I'm home working and when you're working for yourself, it's not as glamorous as you don't have that PTO. You're charging a little bit more. Clients are not banging on your door every day. You have to hustle really. And it's it's even, for example, this Memorial Day weekend. It's like I don't get off. I worked. So it's every day. It's a new opportunity. But then when people are sad that I'm taking a three week vacation to Europe, that's my that's my vacation. So you really have to balance the ebbs and flows, but I would not have it any other way. I've created a lifestyle and dream that I've always wanted. It's always about the the willingness to allow it or to make it happen, to will it to happen if you're willing to put in that work. And I loved your your anecdote of, you know, people hanging out in Malibu and being able to drink the wine. You know, exactly what you're saying. And as we've created the art of charming and the more successful we got, the more work we wanted to put into it because we're seeing we're being we're able to start seeing growth. And when you start to see that growth, it's like, well, how much more can we make that happen? Yeah, I don't live for the weekend. I live for the life. Oh, absolutely. But it takes time to cultivate that growth. It sacrifices and we get asked that question. And it's the same thing. We sacrifice, you know, and we were laughing about this. I can't remember the last time we took a memorial day off to just relax. Yeah, work through holidays in building a business. And that's what you do when you're getting started and pushing through to get things moving. Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And everyone, like the first impressions, the brand, like I am my brand and a lot of I often find a lot of influencers.  Well, it makes me nauseous. But they have this persona online and they have this persona in person. I'm the same person. What you see is what you get. Authenticity. Authenticity is key. And your followers, quote, unquote, air followers, the followers and your customers will see right through that. Yeah. OK. You like, who are you speaking to each day? Like that's that's the authenticity. That's the real bread and butter of what you're doing. And I know we touched on this a little bit earlier for guys, especially it can be a little daunting or scary when we talk about wardrobe, when we talk about style and when us as men think about stylists, we're like, oh, that's celebrity stuff, you know, that's what red carpet is. But how do I focus on my style? I don't get it. So I love to delve into that idea around. I understand that I don't have style. Where do I begin in building this wardrobe? Or maybe I've got some feedback from coworkers. I got to step up my style. How do I do it? I really think it's about sticking to basics and finding what's authentic to you. I don't think style has to be complicated. Simplicity is key. So finding things that resonate with you, looking at magazines, GQ, looking at those magazines that like that you like, and then going to Norton Rack and finding something that is in that realm.  So knowing your space and dressing for your work environment, that those are classics. So I really encourage my clients to just stick within capsule wardrobe, really, per se, and then really stick to maybe 80 percent, 80 percent capsule and then maybe 20 percent sprinkle in a trend here or there. But really not varying too much from that. I am investing in quality. I really don't encourage fast fashion. Number one, it's horrible for the environment. It's not the goal. But just sticking within quality basics and what works for you. It doesn't have to be crazy in what celebrities are wearing all the time. Number one, that's mostly unattainable and off the runway. But really classics and classic styles and cuts never go out of style. And then you can build off of that, right? That's where the 20 percent comes from. Now we can let our personality shine once we have a tennis shoes or something and go bold with that one crazy shirt that you save for that weekend in Vegas. But really, just sticking with what's comfortable for you never really goes out of style. And coming from the corporate space, you don't think of style and corporate life, right? You think of more office space, stuffy. You don't have much really room to showcase your personality. So in that environment, how can we still be stylish if our work demands that we dress a certain way? That's where you have fun with accessories for gentlemen adding in that pocket square or finding personality with your socks or adding your watch. Maybe adding a bracelet. There's little ways here and there are shoes you can play with your style through with your ties. That's how you show your personality. That's the conversation piece that someone will catch in the meeting. That's going to make you stand out and that's the pieces that you can invest in. OK, so that's how you show your personality coming into a meeting. So especially I was just working with a client in San Francisco and he is in the tech space and he's applying for a couple jobs. OK, he's a VP right now and playing in the tech space. So he's applying for a bunch of positions and he had an interview and he was bored with what he's going to wear. So he's like, all right, I'm going to just go into the interview white shirt. No jacket. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what it is in San Fran in the tech space. No, you at least need a suit. OK, invest in a nice suit.  He wasn't going to do a pocket square. So what are you going to do to stand out? OK, nice lace up Oxford, at least the colored pocket square. So that's the conversation piece is going to make a pop. They don't do ties up there for interviews, which I still think I was like pushing for the tie. We said that. So that's his conversation. That's the pop that's going to make him stand out. So he's remembered and then an excellent briefcase. Invest in the bag. Those are the details. So when you walk into a room, that's what someone's going to look at. What is your shoe like? Is it polished?  Believe it or not, people look at you from the ground up. So it's the shoe, the sock, the nice bag, the pocket square, the watch. Those are the details. You go out to shake the hand. That's what someone's looking at. So that's how we stood out. And then guess what? He got the job. But it's that. So each interview. So it was that the next time we switched up the jacket. OK, the next interview was like, OK, then he had drinks with this individual. So it's like he had denim, but then he had a printed blazer with a little bit of the plaid pattern. So it's like each time he had a little bit of something that was different, that made him stand out. And he got a compliment of how well put together he was. Yeah. So each step, besides going into an interview, just like simple plain white shirt, next time it was the light blue shirt with slight texture. So it's the tiny little details that in the effort that he put into his wardrobe that made him stand out and feel a bit more confident. It's the confidence. Yeah, style has that ability. And when we talk about first impressions, right, it's very visual for us when we're seeing someone for the first time and those little details they stand out and we love to say how you do anything is how you do everything. So if you're being thoughtful with your wardrobe, you're going to be thoughtful in the work environment. You're going to be a thoughtful employee. You're going to be paying attention to detail. So that's the message we want to send on that job interview. I'd love some advice for our female listeners who are also in that corporate environment and want to stand out. And they're pretty much in the same boat, right? They don't have much room to work with. Yes. Well, I think women get stuck. Also, for example, when I had my first corporate job, my dad took me to Marshall Fields. I don't know. This is defunct. It's like a nicer Macy's bought them out. It was a really elegant shop in Chicago. OK, that's where I'm from. Yeah, we're Detroit Pittsburgh. Oh, so you understand. OK. So then I had this really square suit and they had a skirt option, so boxy, so uncomfortable. So that's something that's form fitting.  That's a little bit more elegant in a chiffon and then a pencil skirt. And if you can't do a peep toe heel, but a sling back or a dorset pump, which is different than a basic black pump, right? Pop of color some way. But the details, what instead of doing like the classic French manicure, definitely have your nails painted. But don't do red. Avoid red lipstick, neutral colors on the face. Avoid a heavy perfume and then keep your hair simple. Standard. Don't don't do a hoop earring. But I always say a signature diamond stud goes a long way. Even if you can't afford the diamonds, go with the cubic zirconium. But simplicity and classic always goes a long way. Think like a channel Audrey Hepburn.  But if even if you are doing a button down shirt, add a silk scarf that that with a print, it's a little Parisian, a little fashion forward, but it makes you stand out. So that's the way you can like dress up something super basic. But it's like standing out with your personal style, which will give you a little bit more confidence. Yeah. And I know that job interview can be very stressful when we're thinking about what to wear and how to make that first impression with the person interviewing us. But the most important thing is to pick out, pick and plan your outfits before your interview.  Like there's a spray that I love called Preheels that prevents blisters and rubbing, use that, you know, add any like shoe padding and stuff before your interview. So you feel comfortable.  Gosh, my feet hurt. Oh, gosh, my bra is digging into my shirt or oh, gosh, I wore the wrong boxers today.  Right.  That is how I believe that first impressions to be implemented. I wish I had that advice when I was applying to grad school because I remember I had five interviews in a row and I just bought new shoes with my suit. No, worse than you ever. I put them on and raced out the door and I get there and my feet were killing me. And by the afternoon, my feet were bleeding and it was all I could think about. So understanding that if you're going to wear this to an interview, you want to have worn it before the interview. So you do that preparation. Break them in.  And I want to talk about that idea of style building confidence because a lot of our listeners, they found the art of charm because they're trying to build that social confidence and they want to stand out in a networking environment. They also want to stand out socially for the right reasons. I'd love to hear some of the transformations that your clients have undergone to build that confidence through their wardrobe. Ah, well, but I believe that style should be for everyone despite your size, shape, color. And one of my favorite transformations is this mother of three that I worked with last year. And she just never put herself first. And she reached out to me on Facebook and said, I want to give myself a makeover. Okay. I want to work with you. So I thought it was just going to be about style. But it ended up being more about her putting on makeup and she never wore makeup. This woman has like the most immaculate skin I've ever seen. OK. Never knew how to put a color like makeup on her face ever. Would wear these really baggy jeans. She worked for her brother's construction company. Like really wore baggy jeans, never form-fitting clothes.  Her oldest is or was, I think, 22 at the time, but just never put herself first and wanted to get back out dating. And the before and after I will show you guys, I'll email you a pic of her wearing boxy baggy clothes and then a form-fitting dress. You would not believe it was the same person. And just to show it like she just was really insecure about like her legs and didn't think she had pretty legs. And I'm like, if I had this body, I would be walking around naked. Like, you don't understand how hot she is. I'm like, she just had this fear.  You popped up is like super confident. And I love how you work with clients and I just knew you were the person for me. And it was just so flattered. But just the thought that she just didn't deserve to be happy and didn't deserve to love herself and didn't deserve to be confident was just it hurt my heart. And it was I wanted her to feel confident. I didn't want to put her in something that it was a costume. And then she just would never wear it again. So it was a small transition of how do you feel good for yourself on a daily basis? Right. So it wasn't like now you're going to go from zero makeup to 100 but like finding a little lip gloss and taking a moment to do a little self care for herself and daily affirmations because working with me is not just about transitioning from wearing clothing and just feeling great. It's it's really about the mental state, mindfulness and appreciating your self worth and then cracking into the style because style without confidence is just a costume. So it's those little steps that really got her to where she is now. That's phenomenal. And I know a lot of our audience is sitting there saying, you know, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about my style or taking care of myself. Sometimes they're givers and that they're taking care of their family members. They're taking care of their significant others. And they don't have that time to really dedicate to improving their look.  Yeah, the thing that I've realized is mothers and fathers themselves take care of their kids and they all about they're all about their children. And their cup is half full. But their children are watching this is saying, mom and dad don't take care of themselves, but that's what they're giving their kids and their kids are going to repeat that. You have to fill your cup before you fill anyone else's cup. Well, it can go the other way as well. My my dad was one of those people who as growing up, I've never ever seen him own a real pair of shoes like for him outside of work, going into the factory and having the shoes he wore to go to work. His recreation shoes were the cheapest flip flops he could get from Kmart because he had felt because he didn't want to take away from what he could give to the kids. And so but of course, me growing up was like, I will never ever own those pair of flip flops. That's kind of like my mom. My parents are from Haiti and they're just really modest and she just never would like be frivolous because everything was for us to like put us through the best school and like private school, you know, 18 years of ballet and like all the sacrifice, which I certainly appreciate. But yeah, self care. I mean, oh, she was always presentable. And gosh, she was gorgeous.  But like my dad had come out to visit me in November. And we went for a hike and had to give him ten of shoes and things like this.   So we got them from my closet. It's about time he's like moving on up, finally gets the shoes. But see, but like that's the thing. Like I just I guess it can go both ways. Yes, but like there's that thing where like people don't want to take care of themselves. But going back to like the first impressions and in giving, it's all about how do I ask my question, my clients this, how do you want to feel? That is really what it is. Right. How do you want to feel? Empowered, strong, confident, gorgeous, sexy men? Do you want to feel powerful in control? Like what is that feeling that's in you? And when you work with me, like what would be the outcome that you would be successful? Like how would you if this was the end, like what would be the success point? What is that? What does that look like? And then when you're thinking about your goals, because that should align with your first impressions, like especially with the art of charm, when you're when they're done, like what would be the aha moment? Right. What does that look like? And that should be everyone's every day. Like when I get up and I'm manifesting after my meditation and I'm writing down my, you know, in a year, this is what my life will look like. That's really a practice of mine. And I encourage my clients to do this. What does that look like? You should be able to taste it. You smell it, feel it. That is the manifestation of style, confidence, mindfulness. If you believe it, you will achieve it. I know this sounds like woohooey, you know, secret. It doesn't. It's not religious. It's just. Well, the power of visualization is incredibly important. If you don't know where you want to go, then it's very hard for you to take steps in the right direction. Exactly. And it's hard for me to work with a client. And it's like, I just want to look hot. Right. Not going to happen. That can be that. So that's that's going to be missing the point. Exactly. So what what does that look like? Right. What does that first impression look like? So understanding the message we want to send. And this is a great moment for the audience to pause for a second and think about what is the message that you're looking to send with the clothes that you're currently wearing and is it in alignment? I know for us, you know, when we first moved from New York to LA, we were wearing very New York driven clothes. And a lot of people looked at us as like they're out of town or as they're not LA. Now when we travel, we look so LA, they could spot us from a mile away. So there are the local trends and setting the message of also what tribe do you want to belong to? And I know Johnny's a big believer in this, that your clothes allow people to know what tribe you identify with based on the message you're sending.  I find this especially since online dating is such a hot point. When I was single, I really when I was really looking, not looking, but ready, really ready to find a partner. I wasn't looking anymore. I was just ready for the next step. I stopped the online BS. OK, I think Tinder was out for like two months. And I was like, OK, this is a hot mess. Because all these guys were like, I want to meet your hot. And then I'd be like, OK, let's meet. And then they were like shade. They like disappeared. I was like, what is this thing? Like, I don't understand this app. But like when I was really ready to just be like, OK, I'm ready to find my person and my partner, I decided to be the person I wanted to be with. Because what did that look like? And I was like, OK, well, I want someone who is mindful, that loves yoga, that is kind, that gives back, that's involved in the community. Like I just wanted to be the person I want to be with. And I started doing those things and stop thinking about the swipe or start thinking about like when I was being when I was at the bar going out, I stopped looking around for someone else and just became present. And then I just walked into a dinner party that was like a set up. And then I was set up. And then I was with my husband from that day forward. And that's almost five years. So but I think that once people stop looking, it's just that mindfulness. Like that is being present. So what does that look like? So I encourage people, especially gentlemen that are looking for their partners, especially in LA, maybe you're not looking. Because it seems like no guys are looking. It says my single girlfriend, but you know, think about that. That's my two cents. So I want to thank everyone who sent in questions. We've got a lot of great questions here. I got one in my email from John Shell. He says, Hey, AJ, I'm a long time listener. Love, love, love your podcast. My question is I find myself in a lot more networking events. I know this is a prime way to meet a future collaborator or boss or even employee. And a lot of times it's me walking into an established circle and introducing myself. Any tips regarding approach, body language, what to and not to say. And I know there's a few things we got to unpack here. But that approach, as we talked about earlier this month, that is your first impression. So the health going into it, that foundation. Do you feel really confident in your body? Then the body language component that we delved into deeply in a previous episode, looking at, are you wearing a smile? Are you present? Are you engaged in that situation, especially when you're entering established circles where you're sort of an outsider and you want to make a great first impression, along with that introduction of yourself, people are looking at your body language. They're judging the way you're standing. Are you closed off? Are you crossing your arms?  These are signals that people are using to judge your openness and your ability to be engaging in that situation. So that's the body language stuff that we focus on. And then when it comes to what to say and not to say, our clothes are saying something as well and taking some time to be thoughtful about your clothes. And for your clients who are in that networking situation, what are some things that you tell them to focus on with their outfits and what they're wearing? Well, I would definitely know your audience. If it's a event for attorneys, dressed more on the conservative side. It's an event for creatives. You have a little bit more wiggle room. So know your audience just for your audience. But like I said before, plan your outfit ahead of time. Have a repertoire, like have a go to that you feel comfortable in. I always have a go to for a fashion event. Or so I know what I'm exactly I'm going to wear. And say go that route more than anything else. So if it's if it's I'm assuming if it's more for him, if it's a more business business event, you can't go wrong with a blazer. I was it's always better to be overdressed than underdressed. It's so cliche, but it is so true. And I know for us, we finally got some custom suits and we've been wearing him in LA and LA is not a very suit town, but I feel great. We feel great being overdressed. It's not as intimidating as it sounds. No, you'll look like the best person in the room and you'll shine. So yeah, definitely say suit overdressed and underdressed and stand tall. Postures, everything. So you know, shoulders back, chest up, walk in with a smile and read the room for body language of people, the mimicking way of looking at things. Like if some mimic the room, if the house, someone's moving mimic their way because that makes people feel more at ease, that's the way to approach them too. So not being jarring with your actions, like during to stick your arm out, but just feel the way that their their intention is and mimic them. I want to add that this was a tip that I picked up online a number of years ago now trying to gear up for my own networking opportunities. And the tip was approach to people who are already in conversation. And it sounds counterintuitive, but in a networking event, everyone's trying to meet everyone. So if they're in a conversation, that's a great segue for them, one of them to exit the conversation versus walking up to someone who's not talking to anyone, that's a more intimidating approach. So entering a conversation that's already started, standing open there, making great eye contact with everyone and eye contact is very important for getting people's attention and then allowing that graceful exit for one person and now you're in a great conversation can be an excellent strategy when we're networking. He talks about what to say and what not to say. Are there any ideas that you have here, Johnny, on where he should take his conversation? Well, before we get to the conversation, I mean, if he knows that he has a networking event coming up, we all know how great we feel and the smile that we're going to put on when we get a new, a new cut, when we get some new clothes. So to, if you know it's coming up, treat yourself so you're feeling as good as you want to be showing that you're feeling. And then also for guys, I think the most difficult thing is to understand how a fitted or a more expensive brand that it's nice fabric can allow you to fill for guys like a shirt's a shirt. It's a very easy mindset to get into. But if you end up spending a little bit more money for something that's more fitted or that has nicer material, it's going to have you feeling a different way.  If you're feeling important, if you're feeling good. Absolutely. And I know that we have a standing appointment with our hairstylist to make sure that we're looking and feeling our best. And obviously we're going on camera a lot. We're doing a lot of the videos at the company and then also teaching in front of the room where people are looking at us. And that's one thing that a lot of us going back to that self-care point, right? We'll let our hair cut slide. We'll let our nails grow a little long. We don't pay close attention to the grooming and that sends the signal. Right? The most well-groomed, you're going to stand out for the right reasons versus letting yourself go. And it's, it's interesting to me because he's like, what to say and what not to say. And to your point, Johnny, of taking a step back, I also want to think about how to be a better listener and being present, because a lot of times when we queue up what to say, oh, I want to go in, I want to lead the conversation here. I want to direct it on these topics and avoid these topics. We can get so in our heads, overthink it and not be present enough to actually listen to the conversation. Well, and for the guys out there who are very analytical and have processes for anything, you start thinking about, what can I say? And it's, it automatically leads to, then what do I say next? Then what do I say after that? And what if they say this, what then where do I lead us? And then before you know it, you're so in your head of all these different things going on, you can't fully be present in the scenario, in the event, in and in itself.  Then you get awkward. Absolutely nailed it. Yeah. And allowing the conversation to happen instead of trying to mold it ahead of time, definitely an understanding, you know, I go to a lot of networking events and I can't tell you how many people are just walking around and having a one way conversation. They're just blasting their pitch at you. They're not listening to you at all. They don't care if you're the right person for the pitch or not, they just got to get it out. And that is why people hate networking. They hate this idea of glad handing and exchanging business cards. And then at the end of the day, it's like, well, what am I going to do with all these people who just pitched me? So understanding that, and we have an episode on this elevator pitch. We'll link it in the notes on the show here. Definitely having a short pitch about what do you do and what you're about is important. But not looking to just go in there and blast it out to everyone, allowing that opportunity to listen to other people's pitch. And that's how we're going to find those points of engagement. And most importantly, I mean, if you take your mind off of the things of what to say or how to get this out and all those other things and you focus on what really matters and making a good connection, smiling, being positive, enjoying where you're at, people are going to remember that. They're going to remember how you allow them to feel. So they're going to take interest so that you will have another opportunity to give a full press pitch that is more calculated and more thoughtful and more thought through, rather than you just trying to slam everybody with some sort of quick thing that you've put together all night. I think you nailed it on the head about it's how you make people feel. No one remembers the pitch. It's about how you made them feel. And that's the most important thing in any first impression. It's that how you'll meet them, that ending reaction. It's the most beautiful part. And don't word vomit them. Right. And the last thing I want to leave John with here, which is really important, is understand that one good connection from a networking event is the goal. It's not getting 30 phone numbers. It's not wowing everyone. One solid connection, one great conversation, and you've had a wonderful networking experience. I know that sounds like, AJ, that's not enough for me. I'm a perfectionist. I want more. Listen, these networking events, and he says multiple, it's a small room. You're going to run into these people again. So focusing on one great connection instead of trying to wow everyone is actually a strategy for success. Well, and how many times as we go through our classes, guys will come through and they have this idea that when they go home, and it's usually the younger guys, because they just want to go after everything and just knock it out of the park, they find themselves going home and putting this pressure on themselves to run the room, to meet everyone at the bar, to be that guy. And that's great. And sometimes when you work really hard, these things, those nights will happen where it seems magic, and you've met everyone and you've been super social and had the spotlight.  And here in the networking events is the same thing. And then, of course, if you've just focused on one or two connections, you're in. We received a call from Ryan who asked an interesting question about online first impressions. Let's listen to Ryan and Melissa, please give us your thoughts. Hey, AJ and Johnny, this is Ryan. I had a question about first impressions. My question is, I know people form first impressions really early on, like once they just see you. But I also saw a study that people will form a first impression if they see a picture of you. So with social media and the interconnectedness of technology and stuff nowadays, we need to think about our social media profile like that. What tips do you have for someone, especially someone who doesn't use social media very much to have a great first impression online? Thanks, bye. Such a great question. Right now, social media is so powerful. Employers are looking at it as a means to hire you. Potential clients are viewing your social media profile to see if they want to work with you. So yeah, your social media profile is incredibly important. So what I say is what I said before, view everything that you put online as a reflection of your personal brand. Is it a reflection of you? So your profile picture, your headline, that's you. So yes, first impressions are important. So is that profile picture a reflection of what you're doing? Do you have a beer in your hand? Do you have a hot girl in that profile? Is that what you want to put out into the world? Be mindful of it. I don't necessarily suggest unless that's part of your brand to have a professional profile and then you look completely different in person, maybe not. But be confident and be authentic. Right now, even for me, it's a little different than what I normally have.  But my natural hair cut and natural hair is like a bob. And so it was a little different for me to step out of my comfort zone, but I'm actually doing this as a social experiment to see how we treat it differently as a woman of color to have a completely more ethnic look when I normally have straight hair. So it's been interesting for me to have a different play with it. But also see how I'm treated differently being the social tones as a woman of color. So this is an experiment, really. But all of my profile, all my branding is I look different because I have a different hairstyle. But to take that step further, normally my brand is different online is what I look like. You see me normally have short hair. So but reflect who you are online with who you are in person and with your social media profile. It's not just your picture, it's your content. Does it match on all profiles? Is your Twitter, your LinkedIn, your Facebook is an alignment. So viewing yourself as a brand outside of work, you are your work. People are looking as your resume is not just the paper that you sent. No one's getting jobs like that anymore. I think Gary V said it best in his book, crushing it that you are your brand. And you should be building a brand from the start. Yes. Like from the start of your profile on social media online. So yes, the question is first impressions are everything of how you look but reflection of the copy on your profile. Well one thing you mentioned earlier that we didn't that you left out in that one which was even dating. So if you're doing Tinder, the first thing is like to go on that person's Instagram or get their Facebook so you can go through their profile to see if they're negative what they have going on. I know for myself, if I go through some of these social media and it's negative or nasty or it just seems that they're in drama all the time, like that's a skip over. I'm not inquiring in that any further. So and some of us had obviously the freak out with Cambridge Analytica and privacy.  Some of you right now might be doing that but those party photos with the beer in hand with you on the boat, they might be great for your friends but future employers are looking at these things. Interviewers are looking at these things and if it's easily accessible to see party AJ then is that what you want associated with your personal brand? Yes. And a lot of us don't realize that.  I don't want my parents to see this but future employers are looking at this. They're not just engaging with your LinkedIn and if you have a strong online brand you set yourself apart from other job candidates. Well, they're gonna be investing in you. They wanna make sure that what they're investing is has got it together and it's gonna be well worth it. And we have clients much like this guy who essentially have no online persona whatsoever and they're like, oh, I just don't touch it. It's like, you still need something. Even if you don't engage with it, put up a couple photos, put up a little bit of self image online so that you're not just that blank Facebook photo. You're not just that anonymous person because that is also leery for people. I have to be honest with you. Absolutely.  He comes from the old school of I hate online. Why do I have to have this profile? This is my business. I don't like how I have to have my personal life on there. Why is it any of anyone's business? What I do, and I made his Facebook profile when we were dating and he was like, this is the only reason I have a Facebook. And then he's an entrepreneur and he owned a store for a long time and now he's consulting and I said to him, you have to build an online profile.  That is something for everyone out there who's like an entrepreneur, air quotes or that wants to have a business or brand, you are as good as your last project. People are gonna look and see what have you done lately? So I encouraged him and pushed him to build an online brand, to put pictures up, to build a presence because that really matters. People are looking, what clients have you worked with? Who are you connected with? Because now it was funny, even to me, millennials and I hate that because I'm not a millennial but I just hate that because they're interesting to me.  And I was like, well, here's my card. No, your Insta is everything. That's where it is. Even that. And I thought it was so absurd to me because my Insta is a brand but I do empowerment and everything. I don't keep all of my portfolio and my Instagram, my portfolio's on my website but that's where it's turning.  I've tried to resist every social media invention from the beginning of these things but they drag you into them before you know it. It's like, you're only going to be able to work in certain areas if you have these things. I remember even dreading my space and of course dreading then it was Facebook. I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it, okay, I'm doing it. And then it was Twitter. I'm not doing it, I'm not, okay. And now of course I think the last one was Instagram. I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it. Here's my Instagram. You can find him. AOC Johnny. I'm gonna follow you. Instagram. Yeah, I have a hard time doing Insta stories because I like my private time. I don't like to show everything. I think I showed my Insta story on Saturday when I was working with my client but then I went dark because I just wanted my private time this weekend and to have the balance between my husband and I and our private life and still be there for my followers and the gram. I just like, I need that balance.  So I find it difficult to be out there but it's part of the beast. Yeah, well I've had to get comfortable with, you know, posting this picture and now I'm just, so now I just, I've gotten used to it so I just do it and if anyone says anything about like, and what are they gonna say?  Oh, you're posting another picture of your food. Oh, you're posting another picture of you on stage. Oh yeah, they're the things I love. They're the things I like. But that's, but a talk forever where the younger generation, your favorites, the millennials are, they're accustomed to it out of the gate. There is no getting used to it. That's just what they do. They live their lives online and it's even for myself, I'm at 44, it's mind-blowing to me to see how comfortable they are with it and it's, and I have to work to just put some of these things on just so that I feel like I'm participating in the whole thing. No, my husband's 40 sexy, 46, 40 sexy. I will remember that when that comes up for myself.  He just refuses or is super resistant so I like have to remind him to post or like create the grid for him if things need to be. But it's okay to be that way. I think it's better to be that way but as long as it's authentic to you, like it is to post what it is, is that's how you create a beautiful brand that speaks to your audience. Well, you know, I'm very, I choose when I'm posting, I'm very methodical about it and plot it all out. I'm like, okay, I think this will send the right message. I think this was definitely not send the right message. I find it interesting how millennials will throw everything about their lives. The good, the bad, the complain. Well, now there's RINSTAS, which are real Instagram. So everyone has their fake Instagram where it's curated and it looks amazing and then they're RINSTAS, they only share, they make private and they share with their friends. So I can see Johnny's biohacking photos and I can see the sillier stuff but it's walled off from those potential employers. So understanding that your online first impression is just as important as your in real life first impression. And do you have the right first impression online? And being thoughtful, much like we're talking about with your wardrobe, being thoughtful with the photos and what you post online so that you can make that right first impression. Now here's an interesting question that we got. As a guy, I feel like I take more care to make a first impression with women than I do with men. Do you think men respond to body language like smiling and openness the same way that women do? Do you think women are more sensitive to some of these cues or are all people the same? That's an interesting question. I feel like I need to know more. Like what is he trying to get out of women? Like why is he being more mindful with women than men? I think as a young man, this is how the show started for us 11 years ago, we put a lot of emphasis on impressing the opposite sex. We don't really think about impressing our guy friends.  But as we hit adulthood, and we start losing some of our friends to marriage, kids, their real lives and their focuses, and we start trying to make new friends, well, we're not making great first impressions with other men. We're focused solely on getting that girlfriend or impressing the women that we don't realize that some of the body language signals that we're sending to the room, especially a room full of men, is that discomfort? Is that I don't wanna be here or even abrasiveness? And we see this in our video work section in class where a lot of times we're not paying attention to our nonverbal signals of crossing our arms, furrowing our brow and not wearing a smile that signifies openness. And it can be very off-putting as a guy. And we've talked about this hosting people, having events at the house. And when we have a charity event at the house and we're looking around the room, we're trying to talk to people, well, there are certainly guys giving off a closed-minded, closed-body language, a discomfort that makes me as a host not wanna approach them or engage them. Well, I will say that men and women, as they get older, usually don't make friends with each other. I think that's across the board. It's harder and harder to make friends as you get older unless you have something in common or a reason to. I find that unless a group of friends are couples, that's when the couples, the men, usually end up making friends because there's a reason for them to talk, but people aren't usually making friends anymore. We're trying to change that. I think insecurity, they feel like there's a reason that they just don't think that people are interested. There's a lack of time. No one wants to be my friend. But, and there's the emphasis of trying to impress the opposite sex, really. I think women are definitely more mindful of a male's attention. Shivery is not dead. Women certainly appreciate that. I notice it instantly. And I notice when it doesn't happen. I'm very attentive. I'll give an example. I was in an elevator two weeks ago after a yoga class. There was a small group of us in class. When I approached the elevator, gentleman was behind me. I pressed the button. Usually I would expect the gentleman too because I think it's more polite. I stepped into the elevator first because I was in front of him. Again, he pressed the button, but he cut in front of me to exit, which I find the most rude thing ever because a gentleman always lets a lady go first. So if he let me go first after you, that would be more mindful. So these things are noticed. So I think with first impressions and if that gentleman is being more kind to women, well done, sir. You will be married very soon. Well, we see that though, where these guys have that one track of mind where they're just focused on impressing women. They could care less about the guys in the room and it is off-putting. It is off-putting, but I think you should still pay attention and focus on being open to both sexes. Absolutely. Well, I wanna address the question here. Do you think men respond to body language smiling and open is the same way that women do? Well, I'm sure there's specifics that are different, but I know of the guys in the room who are enjoying themselves, who are content, who are looking to offer value in that room, who are excited to be there and who is looking to get the hell out of there. It's a very easy thing to see and we see it all the time. In fact, the body language and the stuff that we address on Wednesday and on Tuesday in your class is to allow everyone in that room to see you as a positive blip on the radar to where you are somebody that you want to interact with that people are comfortable because if you put yourself in that hole that you have to climb out of, it's gonna be hard for you to get out, which is going to them. Have you paint the event that you're in as one of negativity that you don't wanna be at because of how everyone is treating you because of the attitude that you brought in the very beginning? And I can't tell you how many times I'm in a situation where I'm out with Amy, my girlfriend, and she has some single friends and the guy will come over to interact with the girls and just straight up ignore me. And as a guy, right? As a guy, he's not paying attention to his first impression of me much like this listener. He's like, why do I care about impressing other guys? Well, listen, the guys can be the gatekeeper, right? If the girl's boyfriends don't like you, well, you're not gonna be able to hang out with the single friends. So you definitely wanna be conscious of your first impression with both men and women. It is not a one-way street and it is a pretty twisted mindset that I only have to walk around impressing women, right? It's like that one-track mindset can lose opportunities to make male friends, can lose business opportunities, being closed off towards men when we see this at events, we tend to shy away from those guys.  I think it all comes back down to confidence. These men are in your classes because they lack confidence. It all comes back down to confidence. That's really it. Building that confidence is important. Building that confidence in themselves so they can feel confident to talk to other people. When women are mean to me, which happens often, especially being a stylist and going to these fashion events with other bloggers and stylists and they're very off-putting to me, it's all because they're insecure within themselves. It really has nothing to do with me and I know that. So I'm always nice and serve them with a smile, but it really is, that's what it is, it's the nature of the business, but it's really the unhappiness, so confidence. And what are guys from boot camp who graduate find that wearing that smile, having that open body language with everyone opens up so many other doors that they didn't realize were closed before that week. They didn't realize that they get a free cup of coffee because they were giving value to the barista and being a warm, friendly person. They didn't realize that the door guy at their office has a story and he's a great guy because now they're wearing a smile coming in, being more open to these opportunities. So definitely pay close attention to your body language. Men and women respond well to smiling and openness. Ooh, I have a quick question for you both, which is interesting to me. Do you think, because the three of us are from the Midwest, that we have the success with confidence and charm because we are Midwesterners? Because I find that it's been, we talk to everyone from the door guy to the barista. I mean, that's just how we are. Is that something you found successful here? You know, I think it's just depending on how you're raised.  You need to make sure that you're open and who will force you to go talk to the other kids that were there? It's a- Ding, ding, ding, ding. I feel like you just, I'm just sitting here realizing that we all have very similar backgrounds and our paths are very much aligned, which is very funny. Well, I do feel like a lot of that mindset leads to a career that's built around helping and coaching other people, right? If you're thoughtful and you're giving and you're considerate of other people, well, you'll make a great coach. You'll make a great person to help other people grow and change and that's exactly what we're about and those lessons I feel can be instilled anywhere in the world. I don't think the Midwest is special in that regard and we have a number of clients from the Midwest who struggle in these areas and don't understand necessarily the value of paying attention to everyone, trying to look after other people and give value first instead of running around trying to take from others. To answer your question a little bit further in this last part here, he asked, do you think women are more sensitive to these cues or are all people the same? And the thing about it is, if you work on yourself to make a better presentation, so I wanna make sure that I will always have open body language, or I wanna make sure that if I go into this event that I'm always smiling, because you're working on yourself and these things are so aware on a conscious level for you, you're gonna see them in other people. So if you've grown up in such a situation where your father or your mother always made you to be completely aware of what you're saying to the other people in these social events, then you're gonna see another kid. So once you start working on yourself, you're gonna be, everyone will be more sensitive to these. So if you're talking about going into a room with hyper-aware people who are working on themselves to make a great first impression, you better believe they're a sense of to those cues because they've done the work on themselves. I wish we were toast in Champaign right now instead of Lacroix. This is a question sent in from Tim. We know or haven't told that most, if not all people, are more worried about themselves than they are about others. If people were wrapped up in their own drama, how much do we control the first impression we make and how much of it is just a reflection of the other person's personal issues at the moment? Are there any clues that indicate we've hit it off badly because of how we were presenting ourselves versus because that person is just in a bad mood or we've picked the wrong color to wear, et cetera? So thinking about, just as we were talking earlier, being thoughtful with that first impression, Tim's wondering, is it really necessary that there's a lot of this first impression just based off of the receiver and not necessarily the signals that I'm sending? Well, I think this goes back to the toolbox episode that we had done in that study that you had read how that a lot of people's first impressions are going to be wrong because of whatever they have going on. But you certainly don't wanna be adding to that or reinforcing it and you wanna make sure that you feel good about it so you're not left worrying about it. And we talk about this all the time. Put focus, emphasis on what you can control and you can control your own presentation. You can control the message that you're sending to the room. You're not gonna be able to control or manipulate their thoughts or feelings about it but if we focus on what we can control then being thoughtful in this area to make sure we make a good first impression will overwhelm that person who's in a bad mood or will overwhelm that person who happens to not like purple. Yeah, or racial bias. You can't worry about those things. There are just things that ultimately we can't control them but it doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on our own presentation.    It's really energy conquers everything but being mindful of how they're being how they're perceiving you a lot of times people with autism don't respond and read the room. If someone is a little bit more resistant to energy they come off really loud and enthusiastic and they don't see that maybe someone is scared or not feeling them. So reading their energy if their arms are crossed maybe crossing your arms too. If their arms are open having your arms down too. So it's reading their body language and mirroring that is a great way to help gauge their energy and reflect their attention. So that's a great way to help with first impressions besides just what you're wearing.  So that's just another button to help with the first impressions and then don't worry about it. You can't help but you can't change. Well the other thing going with that just imagine if you really hadn't done the work on yourself to make sure that you are making a good first impression and to rate yourself you would say well probably a six or a seven on a scale one to 10 I make a good first impression. That's probably what a lot of people would say if they haven't really done any work. So you'd go to a networking event and a place where you need to make a good impression a place that you've been looking forward to all week and you go in there with your idea that you can make a decent six or a seven out of a 10. Good first impression. What are you going to think when you get home? What kind of sleep are you gonna get when you get home? How long before you have peace of mind that you've done as well as you could do? I mean I certainly never wanted to have those thoughts again of what does that person thinking of me? How did I come off? What happened? Why did they say this? Did I do something wrong? Well if you haven't done the work on yourself you're gonna leave all those questions open and you are gonna drive yourself bad. And the question are there clues that indicate we've hit it off badly because of how we present ourselves versus because the other person is in a bad mood or we've picked the wrong thing. Again it's putting focus on the other person and getting hung up on reading these things that really are very difficult to read. When we talk about reading body language and we had this study earlier this month people and their body language is not necessarily their intent. So understanding that crossed arms could mean closed it could mean they're cold, right? So we can get so wrapped up in oh well they crossed their arms that must mean they don't like me and now we start having self-defeating thoughts. And you're being reactive in the situation rather than proactive. So let's think about this. What is a better thought for Tim to have at the end of the day if he gave his best opportunity to connect with people in an event? Should he be thinking that it was his fault or should he be thinking that the person was in a bad mood? I argue he should choose well the person's in a bad mood and write it off then taking the blame and shouldering the blame for everything that's going on in this situation. If you start to assume the positive and think things are working in your favor you're coming from a stronger place than assuming constantly that you're the one who's at fault, you're the one who's wrong. Yes, I tend to go sometimes negative space and I work really hard about changing my mindset and so what I like to do is be proactive and do a follow up. Take it into your own hands. If you have their contact email them hey it was great meeting you. We connected on this point, this point and this point. Hopefully we can connect again soon. I'm available for coffee this date because then you take control and then you take it from there. Because that's putting the ball in their court and saying that you follow up and follow up quickly within 24 hours because most people say it was great meeting you and then they never follow up. So taking the initiative into your own hands and following up and then making a purpose to call and connect and then you can see if you did make a great first impression because then they'll follow up and maybe they get busy and then you follow up again because that's creating authentic connection and taking the relationship a step further. And that's a great point to another question we get a lot is what action can I take if I think I had a bad first impression? Following up, being persistent, letting the person know that you are someone of value and you have been engaged in listening and paying attention to these things. That follow up is essential for you to overcome that bad first impression. And I love that 24 hour window because when we think about these networking events and we think about just the rapid pace at which people are connecting if you wait 48 hours, 72 hours, you email me a week later, I'm in a different place. I don't remember that interaction we had. So capitalized on any momentum that you've been able to build and if there's some negative momentum following up can overcome that. And if it was negative or something happened or you spilled a drink, offered to pay for their dry cleaning. Talk about how you stepped on her toe and how awkward it was. Hopefully your toe healed. Whatever, make fun of whatever happened in that you're taking ownership of what happened. That's the confidence in being boss in your failures and using your pain as fuel. I wanted to add to that if you're not quite sure but you err on the self-critical side, which happens all the time, we're programmed to do that. Try not to read into on assumptions of why it didn't go well because you could sit there for days assuming all sorts of things, move on. In fact, if you're worried about it, then there's work to do on yourself to make sure that doesn't happen again and that you do a better job next time. Couldn't agree more. So lastly, we have a question for Mike and this sort of goes with the last one about perhaps not making that best first impression. But Mike says, I have a tendency to be conservative in my rigid in my thinking, which causes me to judge people very harshly. I know that I'm doing this. So what steps can I take so I'm not so judgmental? So understanding that you're judgmental is a great place to start. This is a great place. Because a lot of people don't even realize that until some life event happens. Maybe they get some negative feedback from work, a relationship ends, but a lot of people don't even realize that they're rigid in their thinking and very judgmental and write people off easily. So that's a great first step, at least understanding that we have an issue. And to go along with that, it's being judgmental has evolutionary purposes to keep us safe, to see other people, to ward off so they do not get us in danger. So that is gonna put us on a place to easily be judgmental. That's why we do it. So if you can understand that it's a natural programming in me and I'm going to do that, then if you bring those thoughts to a conscious level, you can realize it and stop yourself. Oh, that's me being judgmental again. I should give this person more of an opportunity. And what's funny about this is, it's not only that conservative people can be rigid in their thinking and judgmental, so could very liberal people be rigid and judgmental and their thinking as well. I have tons of rocker friends who are like, look at that guy, he's a square. Well, have you ever talked to that person? Do you know anything about that person? Well, no, I could just tell you can't tell anything. You're being judgmental. And the other thing I want to talk about here, which is important when we start thinking about being judgmental is forced openness, going out and seeking new experiences and new challenges that give you an opportunity to interact with more people. You've raised awareness that you have an issue, so now let's force openness by taking on a new challenge, chasing a new hobby, learning something. And through that process, you're gonna be meeting new people because you're seeking help from someone else to get better at something, whether it's taking a class, going to a meetup event, trying to learn. So when you force that openness, you force these interactions, you're gonna start, as Johnny said, to realize that a lot of those first thoughts you had, those assumptions were coming from a negative place and you can work through them. And I know I've become more open just working with the diverse backgrounds of the guys who've come through the boot camp. Absolutely. You know, in the living room where we teach the class, sitting on the couch, we have such a wide diversity in religious backgrounds, the way they were raised, mindsets, their career choices, education, and through that diversity and interacting with people, I've opened more. And then Johnny would laugh and go, well, you went to a liberal school and you're pretty open, but I know that I've opened even more through interacting with that diversity in our clients. So forcing that openness to change that point of view, putting yourself in new experiences is one of the ways to break out of that rigidity and start creating some openness in your life. I would say when you are thinking of those thoughts, writing them down and then actively pursuing something related to those thoughts. So if it's a particular person, then reaching out to that group of individuals to find something related to that person. That's what I would be more specific about. Yeah, I think when you, understanding that all of us have our good tendencies and our bad tendencies, and I think the people who are able to make the most change are the people who get comfortable and really get to know the worst parts of themselves so that they're able to identify them, know when they're thinking in that way. You know, it's funny because recently, we just had Jesse Itzler on the show and he has named his bully, right? His bully is named Billy. And anytime that he is being mean to himself or beating himself up, that's Billy who's doing that. And somebody who's come to know really well so that he can stop Billy from doing those terrible things. And I think it's important to get in touch with the worst parts of yourself so that you can acknowledge them and move forward and push them aside or deal with them as necessary. And I know you're a huge fan of mindfulness and this is where it comes in, right? The process of journaling, writing these thoughts down, allowing you to actually just get them out of your system and realize that, you know, these are just thoughts I have. I don't need to give them as much value as I have been giving them by holding on to them. And then trying some meditation practices where you really focus on being more mindful, being more aware of your thoughts and the emotions tied to those thoughts and how they can be steering you in this negative direction when you don't want them to. I think a lot of people when they hear meditation, we're gonna get into this in a future episode, it's a scary thought of being mindful, I don't wanna confront these thoughts. This listener has obviously realized that there's an issue, so working through these thoughts, mindfulness is a great way to do that. Yeah, just really writing it down and acknowledging it and to work through it is the best way. It's hard for somebody to think of themselves in a certain way and have these negative or self-defeating thoughts and then why am I doing this? Why am I thinking this way? Don't, listen, it's just part of being a human being. So learn ways of dealing with it and working through it rather than trying to beat yourself up because you have them. And as I said, the better you get to know the worst parts of yourself, the easier it is to deal with it, work through it, whatever you need to do. I actually like this listener for even being honest and saying it, putting it out there into the world is acknowledging it in itself. And being vulnerable, I know it's not easy to own that. A lot of people like to walk through this world and ignore it with blinders. Absolutely. That's the first step. We support you, buddy. Thank you to everyone who sent in emails, voicemails, and messages on social media at The Art of Charm. And thank you to our in-studio guest, Melissa Chatain, who is promoting her own 21-day style and confidence challenge. Where can the listeners find more about you, Melissa? Ah, you can follow me on Instagram at ChatainStyle spelled C-H-A-T-L-I-G-N-E style, and you can follow more about me on my blog, ChatainStyle.com, and my website, MelissaShatain.com. And you can work with me virtually as well for all the listeners that are overseas at MelissaShatain.com. And learn more about my services there. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.