Welcome to the Asian Review. I'm your host, Bill Sharp. Our show today, A View from Southern Taiwan. And today, we have a husband and wife team. It's the first time we've ever done anything like this on Asian Review. Joining us via Skype from Gaoshuang is Dr. Qin Chang, as a society for strategic studies, an expert on Taiwan military affairs, who also appears on Taiwan and Chinese talks shows regarding politics and international affairs. And then his wife also joins us. She's chairperson of the Department of International Affairs at Wenjiao Erson Line University of Languages in Gaoshuang. Welcome to Asian Review. It's great to have you with us. We are very glad to join your program. Oh, great. That's great. Great. Well, let's get right into it here, because we've got a lot to cover here. And ladies first, so I'll go to Dr. Qin first. Gaoshuang is known as Taiwan's seat of heavy industry and is also home of Taiwan's first import-export processing zone. But I hear more and more people say that Gaoshuang is a dying city that so many industries have moved to China or to Southeast Asia. And I'm wondering, as an economics expert, I'm wondering what your view is on that. Thank you. I think Gaoshuang is a city with a more heavy industry and also some labor-intensive industries. Therefore, some of the so-called traditional industries originally had a transfer to some other countries in order to get revocative or lower local production factories. So in terms of the import and export, of course, in comparison with a few years ago, probably the figures, the numbers has reduced a little bit. But I won't say Gaoshuang is a dying city, because actually in the most recent years, under the mayor changes of the situation, I would not say a little bad, but it actually has to do some great effort. And also in terms of, I think Gaoshuang is an ocean city, the government has tried to take use of this advantage or, we say, the language to introduce some new industries such as the art building. So in the most recent years, the government has organized some exhibitions for shipyards. So I think Gaoshuang, in the future, will find his own way out. It's interesting that you mentioned yachts, because I can see some of those fancy yachts made in Gaoshuang right here in Honolulu Harbor. Before we go any further, we should tell everybody that Honolulu, where we're broadcasting from, and Gaoshuang are sister cities. So we're doing a little bit of PR work for each city here today. Well, you know, it's also said that the New South policy, one of Tsai Ing-wen's big policies about diversifying Taiwan's economy away from China and towards Southeast Asia, is going to be based in Gaoshuang. And will that really help Gaoshuang? Will that really be a benefit? Do you see any effect of that yet? Of course. The Southbound policy is a new policy. Actually, we are also trying to figure out what will be the advantage for the overall economy development. In the most recent, the lead, the cross-strait economic action are actually intensified after the DPP government taking over the power in Taiwan in 2016. Even the Thai government has expressed its concern for many times. Nevertheless, the mega-chain seems to somehow be reversible. This may put Taiwan in a very embarrassing situation. Many efforts have been paid to control the situation. Yet it is still getting worse and worse to some people. On the other hand, some people may argue otherwise that a strong cross-trade tide may reduce the likelihood of instability. So whether Taiwan may have a close economic relationship with many China can be an advantage or disadvantage. It is still a contending issue in the security community in Taiwan. The Southbound policy is basically a government's new idea to try to transfer the investment from China to Southeast Asia countries. And whether Gaoshuang can take advantage from this, I think it is up to the business person. From my point of view, business person, they can smell. They know where is the business opportunity. Asia country is developing the economy. They can help them to make money. I think the business person will go, of course. And if there's not a business opportunity there, I don't think business will follow government's policy. So I think it is up to the business person. But I have to mention that if Taiwan, the economic interaction with China, we stop the interaction with China. I think we will die. To some extent. If we interact poorly or woesily, then I think we also die. We need to interact economically with China smartly. I think this is a way to survive and the way to develop the economy. That's a very interesting answer. Thank you. Well, you know, I often hear it said that when it comes to signing a trade deal, for example, when Taiwan entered the WTO, that northern Taiwan industries benefited, but southern Taiwan farmers lost out. They were at a disadvantage. And is that true? Is there this big difference between southern Taiwan and northern Taiwan, southern Taiwan outside of Gaosheng and outside of the Tainan Science Park? Is it basically agricultural and northern Taiwan is mostly industrial? Actually, Taiwan is not a big. And of course, according to the place where the race, the agricultural is, of course, is on the middle part of Taiwan and also southern part of Taiwan. Enter the WTO, of course, in WTO there is, we need to open our market to other countries' products, including the agricultural. Actually, from my understanding, of course, they must have some challenge to those farmers, but I will not say it has a huge challenge because for some products, Taiwan's quality is pretty good, but since Taiwan has some typhoon or during some rainy season, during that period, we need to import some vegetables or some products, some agricultural products. But in terms of the overall challenge, I will not say that it has a big, our farmers huge challenge or cause some huge problems for their living. You know, one of the big issues right now between the United States and Taiwan deals with the import of pork. And of course, there are a lot of pork farmers in Taiwan. I wonder if most of those pork farmers are in southern Taiwan. Pork, it should be raising not only in southern Taiwan, but also in northern Taiwan. They have some farms. But I think for the reason why currently we haven't opened our market to some part of the pork from the United States. I think as we all know the reason, I think this is not an answer. I could answer here. Okay. I thought you were going to say the ractopamine. That's the additive to the pork. The US pork raisers are really crazy about. I thought you were going to say that, but maybe you don't want to go there. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about your university and your department of international relations? Okay. Thank you very much to give us this opportunity. Wenzhou Autonomous University of Languages is the only foreign language university in Taiwan. But my department is not teaching language. My department is teaching some international affairs expertise to students, including international politics, international economics, and international cultural studies. We use English as our teaching tool to deliver opportunities to students. So we have not only the bachelor's degrees for students' 34-year programs, but also we have a two-year semester program where we try to train the students to be, here I have some brochures here. Oh, good, good, good. A master's degree program of international affairs. Then we try to train students to be an elite of international affairs with both a global perspective and humanitarian concerns. Because I think in this global globalization era, students not only study what happened in Taiwan, but they need to understand what happened worldwide, but not only know how to make money but also need to have some humanitarian concerns to deliver their concerns to everybody. So I hope if anyone interested in this program can send your email or visit our website. Move it over just a little bit. That has the email there? The email and also actually you can scan the QR code. Okay, good, good. So if there's anybody who would like to study international relations in southern Taiwan, this is your answer to that desire. Yeah, great. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. It's really good to talk to you. Let's move on now to... Well, let's take a break first. Let's do a break. And we'll take a break right now. And when we come back, we'll talk to Dr. Qin Zhang and we'll talk about some military and strategic affairs. You're watching Asian Review. I'm your host Bill Sharp. My guests today are joining us via Skype from southern Taiwan, the city of Gaoshuang, Dr. Chen and Dr. Zhang. And we'll be right back, so don't go away. I am Andrea. I am from Italy. And I've been studying and working here in Hawaii for more than three years for my PhD. Hawaii is home to a truly fantastic community of middle and high school students. And did you know some of them are currently out there, right now, using their free time to invent new quantum computers? And did you know some of them are exploring cybersecurity and the new frontiers of robotics? I am just always amazed, as I talk to them at science fairs. Oh, but there's more. Did you know that these students are coming here on FinTech Hawaii to share their story with us? Come and join the new young talents making way show and discover how these students are shaping our future. Starting on February the 6th, every Tuesday at 11 a.m. Only here at FinTech Hawaii. Mahalo. Welcome back to Asian Review. I'm your host Bill Sharp. Our show today, a view from southern Taiwan. And we're trying to do two things at once here. We're talking about economic issues as they impact southern Taiwan and in particular the city of Gauchung. And now we're going to talk about some military and strategic affairs. Well, there's a lot of concern in the U.S. about Taiwan's military readiness, especially that of the reserve force in Taiwan. There's 3 million reserves. But my understanding is they're not really all that well trained and there's insufficient equipment to provide them with if they were ever mobilized. And I wonder what your view is of that. I would like to say that we are under the military threat that from the million China's is over a half century. After the Civil War, when the nation's government retracted to Taiwan in 1949 and this situation lasted for 30 years until in 1979, when the People's Republic of China in Beijing and watch the United States is stepping a diplomatic relationship. During that time, they do have a promise, a political promise to us. One China, but two system and they were peacefully seeking for unification. But this situation lasted for several years until there's several dramatic turn. The first is happening in 1989. You all know about the Tiananmen Square, which also I mean just changed the U.S. changing the policy. More or less, I never say it clearly. The other one is the end of the Cold War when the U.S. approach to Beijing basically is using China, the Red China as a China card to deal with the Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union collapsed, then the strategic value well from the Red China to U.S. also decreased. And then the other one, well, is that happened in 1994, you know, when the President Clinton allowed the former president to lead the way to the Cornell University. Then there will be a deterioration, dramatic deterioration, but later there's a 1995, 1996 another missile has the crisis. But however, for some years, we have successfully passed the economical miracle or the economical reform, but far from land reform and from the assistance of the U.S. The people changed the attitude. In 1987, when the cross-strait relations with the president, the ban was lifted by the president, Jiang Jinguo. Then the situation cross-strait relationship changed. At that time, all the combat, all operational readiness gradually decreased, and our defense invested a lot of money. You're saying that even while Jiang Jinguo was alive, the combat readiness began to go down, decline? Yes, from the way of doing the President Jiang Jinguo era. The situation is that in 1979, in 1979, until 1987, most years is a long, certain, it takes several years until, you know, finally, in 1987, when you start to cross the strait, exchange, you know, a lot of evidence, they can go back. Okay, but what about today? Is the Taiwan military ready today? If China decides it's going to invade Taiwan, Xi Jinping wants to take back Taiwan so he becomes a very famous person in Chinese history. Is Taiwan ready? Yes, it is. It's more or less can be challenged because till now, even there's several mountains like the situation or the tension, like the happenings in 19, well, 1906, or 1995, and later on near the year 2000, even all those situations, those tensions actually happened. I would like to argue that there's no clear well indication of abandoned, abandoned so-called peaceful unification policy. Till now, the Chinese Communist Party, the National Congress, they keep on the address about is the one China, always some people, they are evocative, and then, well, we live there, we are defective, dependent. Well, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that when John D. Guo was still alive, that there was a forced reduction. But it seems today that... Initial, initial stage. Initial case. It seems today one of the biggest challenges facing the Taiwan military is getting a sufficient number of people to join the military. And I understand that Tsai Ing-Wen is going to phase out conscription. So it's going to be all volunteer, but Taiwan hasn't been able to meet its volunteer goals. So I... Yes. I don't know what's going to happen and how this is going to impact Taiwan's combat readiness. I don't understand how it's going to impact the reserve system. The redness, the grammatically means that we will abolish the conscription system. Let me clarify that point. You oppose the abolition or the doing away of the conscription system. Between the society and the military. All voluntary system now, there are certain kinds of social conditions that you must admit with that. But with that regards, Taiwan has no proper background to support that people. Only the people come from the week, relative to the week, the class that they join the military. So this is the reason why the recruitment and the retention rate is always... The really hard point, I would like to point that, you know, the defense policy, according to the law, according to China, it actually should be formulated defense policy. But unfortunately, everybody put in the burden only on those defense ministries. So who is the future manpower? It should be the ministry, it here is the ministry. But everybody just through that you know, knows the burden to military. So military is the one who buried lonely, you know. You know, I have the impression that the Taiwan population doesn't give very much respect to the military. Why? Why? Because there's a threat. There's a threat called China. There's a definite, clear threat. Physically, exactly I would like to address about the reason why I will... Physically, it's made all the young men in one society, no one can walk away from this danger. First, they like to change that to the all-voluntary service and through the burden to a certain class of pre-sociastics, the political well. Stem on the facts by this. There's an incident that happened called Hong Dongqiu. He's been sent to the discipline camp. But for some accident, he lost his life.  The Taiyuan, the president Taiyuan, at that time she personally joined that movement. And the two, well, tarnished the image and to now become a very embarrassing, what I say. During our condition, we don't have the social condition which is barbaric enough to accept the all-voluntary system. We still need a conspiracy. That's a very interesting point. I have to interject here. I've just been told that we have a minute and a half left, which is, as I told you, really fast. But I think you're making some really good points here. You know, and I would agree with you, based on my knowledge of Taiyuan issues, is Taiyuan needs a conscript system? And it's... Everybody is sensitive. Everybody should do their share for their country. I agree with you. I agree with you quite wholeheartedly. And I'm sorry that it seems like we're running out of time, but as I mentioned, the time goes by so very fast. But you brought out some really good points as did Dr. Chen, and I think our audience will really quite benefit from those. And maybe we'll have to do this again some time. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm sorry we had some technical issues in the beginning, but you know, that kind of stuff happens. And it's really good to visit with you for a half an hour or so this afternoon. Thank you for watching today. Asian Review will be right back here next week at the same time. My guest at that time will be retired Republic of China Admiral Lawrence Dunn. He also served as Taiyuan's naval attaché in Washington. And we'll see you then.


Hi, I'm Rusty Komori and this is Beyond the Lines. We are broadcasting live from the beautiful Think Tech Hawaii TV studio in the Pioneer Plaza in downtown Honolulu. This show is based on my book, also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence and finding greatness. My special guest today is an incredible woman who has accomplished many things in her life already. And I have no doubt that she will accomplish much more in her future. She is the champion of change, Kim Koko Iwamoto. And today we are going beyond bravery, Kim Koko. Thank you, Rusty. Great having you on the show today. Thank you so much. Congratulations on your 60th episode. Thank you for being here on my 60th episode. No, it's so great. I love talking with you earlier and you got a law degree. Yes. From where? From the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. And it was one of the most affordable law schools in the country. And it allowed me to pursue a public interest career without paying overwhelming student loan debt. Wow. Now, we have so much to talk about today, and I'm so excited to have you here. What is your connection to Robert's Hawaii? My grandfather is Robert, my father's Robert, so it's been a family company. I worked for the company since I was 12. Every weekend, every holiday, I washed cars because they were a rental car division. I poured beer and Mai Tai's on the Leakai catamaran when we had that. I was a reservationist for Robert Silverknighters. And today, actually, the company is 100% employee-owned. The company went through an employee stock option purchase. So it's a model of basically democratic socialism. For a family company to go, then, to be transferred to the employees, it's an honor to have been part of that legacy. Yeah. Now, Kim Coco, what other significant jobs have you had? My first job after graduating from law school, I was managing attorney of volunteer legal services, Hawaii. And we did legal clinics all across the state, including in homeless shelters and elder care centers. That was a great job. And then, yeah, so that was one of the most... And then later on, I served on the board of education. And I felt like that was a job for me. I put in at least 40 hours a week there. In fact, I had to hire some people to help me with my... Running my company so that I can focus on that. And Governor Abercrombie appointed you as for another position? Yeah. So after I left the board of education, I was elected to two terms. And then after that ended, I went, Abercrombie appointed me to the Civil Rights Commission. Fantastic. Yeah. Kim Coco. Yes. Who is Kim Coco Iwamoto? I am a settler, Aloha Aina, that's been an interesting moniker for me right now, given what's going on on the Mauna Kea. And I've been involved with Hawaii Alliance for Progressive Action, and we have been working on environmental issues, such as banning pesticide use or restriction use pesticides, being sprayed near schools. And I think I'm not sure if your viewers realize that the DOE just kind of affirmed not spraying glycophate on school campuses to protect the kids and the workers. So I've been working on a lot of environmental issues, that's Aloha Aina. And a settler referring to my family's history here in Hawaii as part of the whole colonizing experience of Hawaii, where in every instance of colonization, they bring oftentimes people to work in the land in order to displace the locals. And so that was my historical experience. And so for me, that awareness allows me this sense of humility and a sense of responsibility to give back to both the land and the whole sculpture here. I love it. Now, you're also a foster parent. I have been a foster parent. Currently I did adopt a three-year-old, she's now six. But when I was foster parenting, yeah, I was a licensed therapeutic foster parent. I was licensed by the state of Hawaii. And I had several teenagers, actually, they were all, I got licensed specifically. So when I was living in New York City, I was volunteering at a community center working with LGBT youth. And I knew that a lot of them were homeless because their parents came out. And I wanted to get licensed as a therapeutic foster parent here in Hawaii when I returned so that I could provide a loving home, a supportive home for an LGBT person who's in the foster care system. And so I had five actually during that time I was licensed. And today they're all adults. Wow. That's fantastic. Yeah. I love hearing that. And you've been really supporting a lot of students over the years. Tell me how you've been helping students. Well, just in general, just working on the board of education, my main focus was of course, uplifting student potential. And that's something I think you write about in your book. But making sure that people could have opportunities and access to the tools they need to achieve their goals and what they have envisioned for themselves. But yeah, so part of being an ally, as an adult, part of being an ally to young people today, it's really important that we show up when they convene, when they hold, when they hold demonstrations and when they lead protests. It's important that adults show up and support their leadership. And so I think the photo you have is taken from that experience when they protested gun violence. And again, it's important for adults to show up and not take the floor, but just be there supporting. Now in 2013, the Obama White House honored you as a champion of change for your advocacy for bullying in schools. Were you ever bullied? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think most people have experienced some form of bullying, including bullies. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's the thing that we, I think we need to kind of recognize is that within a school setting, it's an opportunity to intervene in an educational way. I don't believe in just punishing kids and putting them into their school to prison pipeline. I believe in treating the whole person and the whole community. When there's bullying that happens in a school, obviously there's a victim, there's a bully in those bystanders, and the whole community is traumatized. But back to my experience with bullying. Yeah. Yeah, of course. So being in a very out person, attending St. Louis High School, yeah, people actually felt persons, I guess, by what they weren't familiar with or what they didn't know, what they were assuming about me. Yeah. So I would have to like stand my ground. Bullies are, they just, they're just jealous. Well, you know, one of the things I realized, so when I was in, so going into St. Louis High School and I really stood out there among the, all the boys there. So our school counselor actually said to me, you're kind of different than the other kids. Do you think you can be transsexual? So the school actually brought this idea that I was differently gendered and so they actually then contacted my parents and they got me to go to some kind of therapy around this issue. No way. Which was really actually helpful because the therapist was really knowledgeable and very helpful to my family, to my parents. And I remember one day my father picked me up from school, which was unusual because he was a working businessman and my mother was the one who would pick us up from school, but wanted to keep it to me up from school and he said, you know, I know you're having a really challenging time right now. We're going to therapy and I just want you to know that we love you and no matter what you choose to be, whether it's a bus driver, a teacher, a lawyer, doctor, a man or a woman, he's like, he told me that we will love you and support you no matter what. And that was when I was like 12 or 13 and it was really something that I could put on to and I was able to internalize that message so that when bullies did bring it to me or when people said disparaging things about me, I can tap into that sort that will spring of feeling valued and loved by my familial unit and so regarding your comment about bullies being traumatized themselves, I was able to actually hear what they're saying and know that that was their problem, that they were struggling with something and I was able to be sympathetic with them in that way. Very true. Yeah. So, but the most important thing for myself or for anyone who's bullied is to not internalize it, but in order to get to that place of knowing that that's somebody else's thing and not your own thing, you need to start with a good self-esteem, which oftentimes comes from our parents. Yeah, or some very influential adult. The inside. Yeah, that's really important.  Well, you know, so I when I was younger, I taught myself how to sew. I wanted to go into fashion. Yeah. I learned how I went to powder making school and by the time I was a senior in high school, I was producing my own fashion shows. I applied to one college and that one college was the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York City. I was so like clear clear about what I wanted to do. And so I got there. I got my degree in fashion. I was working in the fashion industry. Suddenly, and this is in the early 90s in New York City, again, in the fashion industry, I had no idea that I would be discriminated against for being trans. I didn't think I guess growing up in Hawaii, I just didn't think that was an issue for people. Again, I worked in my father's company, Roberts Hawaii, and I worked alongside transgender, other transgender people. In fact, one was even a supervisor. So I never saw that as being a as being a disadvantage or some kind of obstacle for me achieving my dreams or what I wanted to do. So suddenly, you know, in the moment that I thought that I was going to be launching my career, I felt myself catapulted into a wall of discrimination. And I learned that I went to a legal clinic, much like the ones that I would later run in New York City, I mean in Hawaii. But I went to a legal clinic in New York City and I found out from the attorney there that there were no protections. There were no protections for lesbian, gay employees, that there were no protections for trans people. And in fact, the law protected the employer's right to discriminate. And it was then that I realized that I need to do a courtship and go into law. Like I wanted to go to law school at that point. I'm like, this isn't right. If this is going to be an obstacle, I need to see what I can do to change the laws. And so I went to law school and I eventually was able to participate in changing civil rights laws here in Hawaii. Fantastic.   This happened to us and opportunities to present themselves. Right? Yeah. Now, in this passive, a few months ago, you won the 2019 LGBT visionary award.  And I was there at the Sheraton when you got honored. And you spoke about vision without limits. Right. Tell me more about that. Well, that was the title of the award. And so I kind of use that as a reference. Yeah. And basically at this point, you know, most civil rights most civil rights issues have relied upon our allies, whether it's the African American civil rights issues with women's civil rights, LGBT civil rights, we've, whenever you're in a minority position, whether it's because of numbers or power and access, we rely on our allies. So the LGBT movement, and my experience of it here in Hawaii, it was clear that we relied on our allies, our cisgender, heterosexual friends and family to stand with us in all of our work that we've done. So we were able to achieve quality or at least move towards achieving equality with the help of so many people. And so my speech was really about, was really about honoring our allies. How do we honor the people who stood next to us and with us? And one of the things I've been speaking about, I've been speaking at Hilo Pride, Kauai Pride, and I'll be able to, I've been invited to participate in Honolulu Pride in October, but one of the things I've been speaking about right now is the fact that native Hawaiian cultural practitioners stood with us, the LGBT community when we were going for civil unions and then marriage. They stood with us, they talked about how the Hawaii culture, the sense of place was always welcoming of us and our relationships, our sacred relationships and, you know, advocates like Vicki Takamini Holt, Shizu Komuhula, and to Vicki, so how she put herself out there in front of her community and in front of the public at large and said, this is the right thing to do to support LGBT people in this recognition of their sacred relationships. Today, and to Vicki, along with our other allies are asking the people of Hawaii, including LGBT people, to stand with them and honor their sacred relationships with the Aina, with the Mauna, with Mauna Kea, with the land, with each other, with their culture and their practice, Hawaii became the birthplace of same gender marriage across the world, partly because of where we are, the culture, the host culture that established itself here, that we as settlers have arrived to and we benefited from as a community. So how do we now at this point, do we not, do we abandon them when they were there for us, when, when the culture was respectful and inclusive of us? And I challenge all of my LGBT community members, brothers and sisters, to stand with the Aina protectors right now, to say they stood with us and recognize our sacred relationships. We must stand with our allies and stand with them in honoring their relationship with the Aina. Well said. I love, I love hearing your insights. I love talking with you. We're going to take a quick break. And then when we come back, we're going to continue going beyond bravery. You are watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii with my special guest, Kim Koko Iwamoto. We will be back in one minute. Aloha. I'm Mellie James, host of Let's Mauna Up. Tuesdays, every other Tuesday from 11 to 1130. This show is meant to dive into stories of local product entrepreneurs and how they're growing their companies from right here in Hawaii. I'm so thrilled to have our show kicked off. And so please join us on Tuesdays at 11 o'clock as we talk to local entrepreneurs and hear their stories. Aloha. I'm Keisha King, host of At the Crossroads, where we have conversations that are real and relevant. We have spoken with community leaders from right here locally in Hawaii and all around the world. Won't you join us on thinktechhawaii.com or on YouTube on the Think Tech Hawaii channel.  I'll see you at the Crossroads. Aloha. Welcome back to Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. My special guest today is an amazing woman who wants equality and fairness for all people in society. She is the champion of change, Kim Koko Iwamoto. And today we are going beyond bravery. Kim Koko, you were featured on the cover of the Advocate magazine with other elected officials who have broken through glass ceilings. Right. Tell me how you felt being honored, you know, on the cover. Well, it was an honor to be to have that that exposure and the recognition. But for me, it really feels a recognition of Hawaii and the people who elected me in 2006 and then reelected me in 2010, the fact that they were able to see beyond somebody just being transgender and actually see my qualifications and my passion and my advocacy for students in our public school system.  But it was an honor and actually it was not even. So when I originally won my first election in 2006, most candidates on election night, you host something at some place publicly accessible where the media can come and like celebrate with you if they want to. So I rented out a restaurant and I made sure the media knew where we were going to be and no media showed up.  So but it was really funny because the next day when the national when the national networks when they were alerted to the fact that Hawaii elected an openly trans person to a statewide office like the Board of Education, it was a big deal on national scene. So suddenly all of the local affiliates were like trying to chase me down in the street. It was kind of like a little bit absurd, actually. And so it was funny that I mean, and so I talk about this with other people when I when I when I speak to other national people who are interviewing on a national scale that Hawaii is so blasé and in a way in a good way about, you know, that somebody's trans like so what big deal. And so it wasn't a big deal to a lot of the local networks. And then the fact that the national networks made it a big deal and then they had to flip and go, OK, well, it should like it's big deal. So I kind of like that. I like the fact that it wasn't so noteworthy on one hand. And then obviously when I during all the years that I served, it was never an issue either. Yeah. Now, Kim Coco, let's talk about my book Beyond the Line.  And one of the things I talk about in the book is courage. And the most successful leaders, they have courage to do and fight for what's right. Tell me your thoughts about courage and bravery. Yeah, you know, that's not really I don't think about being motivated by courage, I guess. For me, it's about living. Everything I think I do is about living my gratitude, feeling this connectedness to knowing that I am grateful for the access I've had and the resources and the community and even having supportive parents. Not everyone has that. You know, so I feel like for me, it's it's really important in the sense of giving back. And then also standing again, I mentioned this before about being an ally to others. So for me, just standing in solidarity with others, whether it's young people, whether it's Kanaq Amali, whether it's other LGBT people who are struggling. I think it's really our immigrants right now are dealing with a crisis at the border at the border of the United States with Mexico, you know, they're caging young children in the squalid conditions. They're quite inhumane. It reminded me of and it's been reminding me of the experience my mother had. She was born in California and of Japanese parents. And so her and her eight siblings and her parents were all put into these concentration camps that the America started calling internment camps, but really, truly the concentration camps, 120,000 immigrants and American citizens of Japanese ancestry were put into these camps. Eighteen hundred died during those years. So for them, it was a death camp. You know, when you think about it that way, one of my uncles was part of the 1800 people who died because there wasn't poor health conditions, lack of medical supplies, lack of medical care. Yeah, so for those 1800s, it was a death camp for the others. It was just a concentration camp. But, you know, the idea that the United States Congress apologized and the president in the 80s apologized for that Congress came up with a report that cited the hysteria, the racism, the poor political leadership, all of these things that went into place in order for so many Americans and immigrants to be put in concentration camps in the 1940s. And then today we're using that same playbook to to cage migrant children today. So, yeah, standing up, speaking out about that, I was just speaking at the Lights for Liberty. I was a vigil held at the Capitol on Friday, being able to give that kind of perspective on our history, the United States history of racism, this idea that we can put children in cages and in captivity, starting with Native Americans. So there's actually one army base in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, that first incarcerated Apache children and their families. Then they put Japanese Americans there. And today they're planning on housing 1,400 migrant unaccompanied migrant children in the army base. So this history in this one place is kind of amazing and very telling. So, yes, being able to speak out. So all of these things that I do and try to speak on and advocate for, you know, having a moral compass on, I do because yeah, I've just I can. Yeah. So what do you what do you what does one do and how does one fulfill the responsibility when you have access, when you can articulate complex issues? Yeah, when all of these things come together, I feel like there's a responsibility and almost an obligation. I think in certain cultures, this feeling of obligation is we're always always present. And so for me, that's also true. Makes sense to me. Yeah, that makes sense.  What's what do you think is your strongest character trait and why? OK, so I guess it's a combination maybe of both. And I and I fight this. I fight this tendency to be. I guess like funny or make I make people feel comfortable. They find me somewhat entertaining. I don't know. There's this aspect of me that I don't want it to be mistaken as I'm not trying to socially seduce somebody in terms of like like me. I don't want it comes across sometimes like I want you to like me. But part of me, I don't care if people like me. I just want them to hear the message whatever I'm talking about, whether it's, you know, migrant incarcerating migrant children, whether it's standing with the eye and the protectors, all of these issues are are more important than me. But I feel like there's this kind of aspect of people will hear things are open to hear it if they like, I guess, the messenger. Yeah. So I struggle with that. Yeah, I get it. But that but I think that's an important combination, too, is that you be able to connect with whoever you're speaking to, whether it's somebody across the table from you or across through a camera. Yeah. That there's some kind of connection and then hopefully that the message can be heard. I'm just having awareness about all of that. That's fantastic. Yeah, but it's a struggle because I don't want to have to. I hope people. Yeah, it's a struggle because I don't really want people to like. I don't want them to like me. I just want them to hear the message. Yeah, got it. Now, Kim Coco, what are what are some of your most biggest accomplishments so far? I think that sense of accomplishment comes from the sense of like, what were my biggest challenges and being able to meet them or to find yourself in in meeting those challenges. So when I was 26, my mom had a massive stroke and they removed one third of her brain and, you know, she was basically a vegetable and, you know, so we, you know, we she was a ferociously or she was a strong woman and we knew that she wouldn't want to love like that. So we, our family agreed to just let her go.  Oh, wow. No, it was amazing. It was truly amazing. It was an amazing experience. And so suddenly it's like, now what? Now because she was very, she was incapacitated. They removed one third of her brain so she couldn't like, you know, she needs somebody to take care of her. So I actually deferred going to law school for a year. So I'm like, OK, all the doctors said that the first year of rehabilitation is the most crucial. So coming back and doing that at 26 when actually I didn't have the greatest relationship with her as an adult, it was kind of a, you know, we were kind of a little bit of strange. So taking care of this woman was trapped in the history of my mother's body. And that's kind of how I felt about her at the time because she wasn't the same person. She was so like I said, mentioned she was very strong and now she was super sweet and giggly and she laughed at my jokes and it was really so that one year of being with her twenty four seven was really challenging. But also I felt like it helped me know my potential as a caregiver. And then later on it allowed me to feel strong enough to be a single foster parent and then later on to adopt my daughter.  And I really found it to be such a gift to myself. Yeah. Wow. Kim Coco, I could talk to you for the entire day. You know, I just I, you know, I really want to thank you for being on the show today and really sharing your insights.  I want to talk with you for a long time. Oh yeah, let's do that. But thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much, Rusty. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. For more information, please visit RustyKamori.com and my book is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I hope that Kim Coco and I will inspire you to have a culture of equality and fairness for every person in our society and to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Aloha.


Hey Co-Friends, I'm Bianca Renee and you're watching Bianca Renee Today, and today I just have one question for you guys. Um, are we over natural hair? Is the natural hair community like, y'all still there? You still out there? Because according to my timeline, my algorithm, it seems like a lot of people are over it. I feel like a lot of people are like giving up and don't want to deal with natural hair anymore. And I'm just like, how did we get here? I've been doing videos, making videos, having my channel for almost 10 years now. And I feel like we made so much progress and like, we were like gung-ho natural hair and like love yourself, love your hair. You can't tell me to straighten it. You can't tell me that only straight hair is beautiful. And then like, something happened in the mix. And now we're at a point where people are just like, I don't want to do it anymore. I just want to go back to my straight hair. And I'm just like, I don't know. I'm torn. I understand a lot of perspectives on the other side of wanting to give up. I totally get it, but it's kind of like, but we've worked so hard. I could just easily see this being another reoccurring cycle of everyone's origin stories of, I used to straighten my hair every day and now it's so damaged and it's not healthy and it's falling out. And I feel like everyone is starting to like forget how bad it was when their hair was chemically damaged or very heat damaged because they've been natural for so long that they almost like forgot the struggle on which they came out of.  I just don't want to see you upset again. I just don't want you to feel like, oh, and I have to big chop and start all over again because that's a lot. It's a long process. So yes, it's a lot in itself, but trying to get it back is probably harder. So I thought we would just open up the conversation today, talk about some things I've been hearing online as I attempt two different curly hairstyles today. As some of you may know, this year I'm doing a curly hair challenge. I think I technically skipped two weeks. My last two videos, I don't think I did a hairstyle because I was trying new products and I like to see my hair down when I try new things. So let's try two hairstyles that I found on Instagram while we talk about this. The first hairstyle I'm going to do is a ponytail hack. Let me show you how a normal ponytail would look. And then we'll see if we like it better this new way. I'm using my Outchless Scrunchies, which are the greatest scrunchies of all time that have never popped on me. This is how a normal ponytail would look. What do we think? But now let's try the ponytail hack. This involves me pretending like I'm going to do a half up, half down, but then I'm going to bring the bottom layer and bring it on top of my ponytail. But okay, back to the topic at hand. Let's talk about the pros and cons of natural hair. Reasons why you may want to give up that I understand. One, it takes a lot of education. A lot of you have come a long way and you had to literally learn how to take care of your hair because there wasn't that much information out there or maybe your parents didn't know what to do. So you just were lost. So you're like, I'm over being in school. I'm an adult. I graduated. I'm tired of learning. Some of you are upset about the prices of curly hair products. It can get expensive. Yes. But at the same time, we are choosing the products that we want to pick. And if you keep buying high end products, then that's what you like. There are great affordable products out there too, but they might not work as well. And a lot of us are product junkies. So we don't even need any more hair products, but we still buy them because we feel like we do. And then you have like very persuasive influencers showing you new products every week. And I understand I am tempting you and I'm feeding into your urge of addiction.  So when I find something new, I get excited and I share it with you. But I'm going to tell you right now, and this is not what brands want me to say. You don't have to buy every single product I ever recommend. I mean, that's just the truth. I like to give you guys options so you can try them so you don't waste your money on things that don't work. I'm your guinea pig. But as long as you find something that works for you, you don't have to keep buying the new one. Alright, now I'm going to take, so now I have my top ponytail. And now I'm going to take this bottom half, split it, and go on top. Then I'm flipping the hair back, putting it on top, like this. And then I think I'm putting them all together. This doesn't seem right. Where's the video? Okay, yeah, we're creating a second ponytail on top of the ponytail. It also is easier with some of these girls that have longer hair. Yes, my hair is long, but it's still not even as long as theirs. Alright, the ponytail out. I'm so bad at sections. Okay, hold on. Let's hide you. You stay there. I can get all the hair here and here. Okay, now I'm making another ponytail up here. Let's see what this does. Well, I don't think my hair is long enough. It just looks like a weird ponytail. I mean, I guess it's giving more height. It's kind of like a reverse double ponytail hack. Some of us may know you could do one ponytail up top and do a second ponytail underneath it to make it look longer. But I haven't tried this above ponytail situation. What do we think? Regular ponytail or above ponytail? I don't think this is it. Let me do the original ponytail hack where you make your ponytail look longer. Okay, more cons. Washingo's, whoever named Washingo's, Washingo's really just set up the whole natural hair community because you're starting off with unrealistic expectations. No one has ever washed their hair and went anywhere except went to their diffuser, their dryer, then they sat for an hour until their hair was dry. I understand. Wash day can be a long process, especially because naturally curly hair tends to be dryer. So we have to do things like deep condition and that can take a whole 20 to 30 minutes. People are doing hot oil treatments. There can easily be a lot of steps. I try to make my curly hair videos as simplified as possible. I recently added more products to my routine, but you still know I'm a one and done type of girl. If I can use one gel and no other product, cool. See now that looks even better, the elongated ponytail. That's the real hack for us with not as long hair as some of these Instagram videos. So you do one ponytail there, one ponytail there and then you just hide it. And now my ponytail looks so much longer. You can only do that above ponytail if your curls are super, super long. Now I'm going to try one more hairstyle. I really think we also got mixed up around like the diva curl phase because once you lose trust with people, it's really hard to get it back. And not only did that just affect the trust with diva curl, it kind of affected the trust with brands. Like some people get mad at me for working with curl smith and they're like, man, curl smith just feels like they're doing the same like diva curl marketing where everyone's talking about them. It's like, why are you mad at a brand for marketing correctly? Like you're saying you see them everywhere. That's literally what every brand should be doing. If no one's talking about your product, that's not a good marketing strategy. You want it to be in everybody's face.  It's just good marketing. But everyone's like on edge. They're like, oh, I've seen it too much. It must, it's probably going to make my hair fall out. Like what is that correlation? There's none. And as we are now becoming more educated on the products that we use, now everyone's learning about ingredients and then you have half the community trying to understand the ingredients, trying to avoid certain ingredients that will dry out their hair or create buildup or whatever maybe. Then there's the other half of the natural community. This is like, I use what I want. I don't care. I don't read my hair is fine. I don't know. I just feel like lately it's been more trendy to be like anti. Anti of the good. Like at one point we were like pro natural hair, loving our hair, loving our curls. And now it's like more cool to be like, I ain't got time for curly hair. I must straighten it every day. And then like I just see people posted videos and like all the comments are just people like praising them for giving up and being over it. And that's like the cool thing. I also get people try to send me posts like silicone's not that bad, soul face not that bad, yada yada yada, parabens. There's no hard facts about cancer. So then they're like pro bad ingredients. I don't know. I just feel like you can't win anymore. Like you try to do your research to help people find products with good ingredients and then people get mad. But then if I would promote something with bad ingredients that actually did give you build up or did try out your hair, you also be mad at me. So I just, I just don't know what you guys want from me anymore. And I just feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Speaking of hard place, shout out to her. Today's actually her birthday. All right. This next hairstyle involves two braids in the front. I need some long pieces. Okay. Let's take this piece that long enough. Let's take this much. And then this piece right here. I also understand that there is some hesitance about caring about your curls and just going back to straight because sometimes people think that having their hair straight is just easier. Like, but people also say that about protective styles. I almost don't even care if your argument is like, I don't have time for curls. I'm just going to be in protective styles and braids forever. That's understandable. And I don't really, you know, that's fine at all. I just don't want you to go back to destroying your hair and then having to start over when you're over this new phase of wanting your straight hair back. That's all I want. So I'd much rather you have your hair and braids forever or maybe even weaves and like wigs and we never see your curls because you want to switch it up because your hair is not getting damaged in the meantime. But it's just really, really, really hard for me to like switch gears and encourage you to go back to one relaxers. I don't think I can ever endorse relaxers. The chemicals alone shouldn't should make you not want to do that again. It's just it's just intense straightening. You can get away with it. If you use a heat protector, if you do it correctly, you don't apply too much heat, but not every day. Just be careful. I just feel like we've worked so hard to go backwards. And even like this week, the Crown Day is coming and that is based off of a whole actual legislative act that was made to help people not be discriminated by their natural hair and protective styles. Like people are getting fired because they came to work with their hair curly or an Afro or in braids or in dreads or locks. Because that's how much discrimination is still left in America that we need a law that allows us to wear our hair the way it grows out of our head. Like that's crazy. We have things like this going on where we're still fighting to have curly hair. It's just hard to hear the people are like giving up when we're really trying to make some progress. And at the end of the day, the whole point is, yes, it's your hair. You should be able to do what you want with it. And if what makes you happiest is never seeing your curls again. I'm not telling you to be miserable. You know, I just want you to be safe. I don't really have the same experience as a lot of people. I understand that some people consider my hair the more desirable curly hair type. I totally understand that type four hair is a whole different beast compared to maybe looser curls like mine. But it's just like, I also think that type four hair in its natural state is also beautiful. I think that nobody can rock a like a legit twist out or band two knots like type four hair. But that is the hair texture that I feel like I hear the most complaints about. Or like it's just like the most hard. It's the hardest to maintain. So that's why you're like, I'm just over it. And I just rather press my hair every day. I don't know what to say. That's just what you want to do. But overall, this is this is what I think I just really want to get across is it's fine to want to switch up your hair because you want to switch up your hair and you're just over being natural because you've been natural for years now. But as long as you still don't believe that you are more beautiful or people will accept you more if you go back to a simulating to the more common look of straight hair, you can never convince me that curly hair isn't like the most unique hair type. We can have curls. We can make it bigger. We can shrink it. We can straighten it. So I understand why you'd want to explore all the versatility that your hair can do. But I just don't want us to fall back into the trap of thinking that you are not beautiful with your curly hair. And it's funny that a lot of the girls that are like over their natural hair are girls that literally have the word curly in their like screen name. And a lot of girls are like trying to drop the curl part in their name because one it's a very limiting brand thing. But it's like some of the most gung ho pro curly people are just done and maybe because they have done it for so long. If this is their new journey, I just hope it works out. And I hope it's like you can have your straight hair. And if you want to go back to curls, your curls are still there waiting for you at the door and still love you. I just don't want to see everybody walk around with damaged hair in a couple years because they got over it. That's all I'm saying. So main cons, the cost of products, the work it takes to understand the ingredients, the time it takes to detangle for wash and go to style. But for me, being someone that's always been natural and kind of skipped the whole relaxer phase and one to straighten my hair everyday phase, it's easier for me to do my curls. And if I want a straight look, it's just so much easier to buy a straight wig. I rather invest in a straight wig and pop that on in 10 seconds than have to blow dry my hair and then straighten it for two hours and then try to avoid sweating, humidity and rain all week long. Okay, now let me show you what I would do with these braids. So in this video I saw from Lana Summer, if you don't follow her, she is killing the hairstyle challenge. She's not even doing the hairstyle challenge but she is posting really cool styles everyday. But she got her two braids in the front. Then she put in the back and she crisscrossed it. And then she went underneath all of her curls. And then I think she tied these together, probably with a smaller scrunchie. And then ponytail look like this. Oh wow, that's really pretty. I did it. Look at that. The braid and like a little crisscrossed ponytail. Wow. I'm here for this look. I definitely should have done a middle part. That way this would look the same as this. But the braid part, that was really cute and really easy. Definitely try this one in Tag Band Instagram. But speaking of Instagram, I did go on my stories and I mentioned this topic of people just being over natural hair now. And I wonder if this is like the new move, the new trend where we're going. And I was like, okay, where does that leave me? Because I'm someone who's very team pro natural hair and that's the kind of content that I make. So like, do you guys don't want me to even talk about natural hair anymore? Or not. And then I recently got some comments and DMs of people saying like, they used to always have to straighten their hair because their parents told them to. They felt like they had to for school. They felt like they had to for work. They just never felt comfortable or beautiful in their curls. But then they found my channel and I was able to educate them on what to do. And now they like love their hair. It's the longest it's ever been. It's flourishing. They're so happy. So I like really needed those messages just to even encourage myself to keep going. Cause I felt like everybody was like giving up. So I had to just remember remind myself that there are those of you out there that still love your curly hair. Still want to learn about your curly hair or maybe your parent that really wants their kids to know how to take care of their hair and love their hair. Know that they don't have to change it to fit in to society. So thank you for those comments and those of you that tell me those types of stories. But let me know where you guys stand. Are you someone that's like over it because it takes too long. It's too expensive. It's just too much work.  Or are you someone that still loves their curls and they want to continue on this journey despite how long our wash days may be. But I'm also open to suggestions. If there's something that I can do to better help you guys to make you not want to give up on your natural hair. Let me know. One thing that I do think that I can do is even be more mindful of trying to promote more affordable products. I see that comment all the time. I hear you. I'm going to be trying some new brands to give you guys some different price ranges so that way you won't be as discouraged. And I also want to work on my word choices when I say curly hair rules or do's and don'ts because that could be taken the wrong way. But even if I do say that, that doesn't mean that you have to do that. There are no real rules to curls. They're just suggestions. And they're things that I have done that have definitely helped my hair and have helped other people watching. So I just know that your hair will thrive more if you do certain things or avoid certain things. So that's what I like to share. But just know that I am just a curly girl on YouTube. I am not in charge of your hair. You could take the information that I have or not. It's your hair. I just want to help. That's all I want to do. I'm just honestly really nervous right now. I'm nervous that we are going to start being anti-curly hair again. And everyone's going to love rocking their straight hair for maybe a couple years. And then you guys are going to realize how we got to this point. And your hair is not going to be as shiny or as long or as healthy as it is now before you give up.  And I wish you the best on your journey. But I want to hear from you guys. Let's blow up the comments below. Let me know where you stand. Are you over your natural hair? Do you want to keep going over your natural hair? What do you want me to do to continue to encourage you to stay team curly before you switch sides? What's your opinion on some of these other big curly influencers not wanting to deal with curly hair at all? Leave all your thoughts below. If you enjoyed this curl talk, make sure you give me a thumbs up and subscribe. I post new videos every week. Well, before I say that, we are currently at the end of June. I'm going to try to give you guys maybe two more videos and then I think I'm going to pop. To be honest, right now I'm wearing a t-shirt because this is the only thing that fits me because I am now five weeks away from giving birth. Here's a little belly shot. This is how big I am. So I am getting to the point where I just want to nap and nest. I'm going to try to give you guys some more content, but this is a pretty farewell until post-postpartum. And then we will continue with more curly hair videos. Make sure you follow me on Instagram at MsBeyondGrenet to stay up to date on what I'm doing in my everyday life. You all can follow our family channel at rmbfam if you want to keep up with the baby when the baby arrives and all the new fun baby mommy stuff. I'll see you guys next time. Thanks for watching BeyondGrenet today.