Good evening and welcome to the special board study session for Wednesday, February 29, 2024 for the Pajaro Valley Unified School District Board of Governing Board of Directors. I'm going to now call the meeting to order at 6.05 p.m. And I would like to move to item 1.2 and I'm going to ask Trustee Dr. Holm if she could leave us in the Court of Allegiance. Thank you, Trustee Dr. Holm. Our next item, I'm going to move to our approval of the agenda. Can I have a motion to approve the agenda? I move to approve. Second. I have a first. I have a second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. The motion carries four. One, two, three, three, zero. Okay. Moving on to item 3.1, a Brown Act Unconditional Commitment. This report will be presented by our superintendent, Murray Shackman. Thank you. And I will turn it over to you. Thank you, President Costa and Board. Here we are again. Many of us were here last night. This is an add on tonight. Your microphone. Excuse me. Thank you. So in accordance with the procedures set forth in the Brown Act in order to avoid unnecessary litigation and without admitting a violation of the Brown Act, we recommend that the Board take action to adopt the proposed unconditional commitment, commitment to the Brown Act as described in the agenda item. And it's very clear in the agenda item and I know our Board has read it. So that's my report. I encourage the Board to take action and approve to entertain a motion and approve. Thank you, Superintendent Shackman. Do we have any public speakers to this item? We do not. All right. See none. I'll bring it back to the Board. Is there any discussion or questions from the Board? I'll move to approve. I have a motion by Trustee Dr. Holm to approve. Second. No, that's fine. I have a first and second. Are there any comments or questions or anything from the Board? No. See none. Then I'm going to call for the vote. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. No. Okay. So that motion will carry for zero three. Now we will move to our item number four, our report and discussion item on declining enrollment. I would also like to remind the public that as this is a special study session, we need all cards, public speaker cards turned into Eva before the action items begin. And so if you would like to speak to this topic and we will only be taking public comment on this topic this evening, please get those speaker cards into Eva now before we start on that item. So now we will begin item 4.1, declining enrollment and Superintendent Shackman is going to start with an introduction and then turn it over to one of our consultant firms. Thank you. I have a big mouth so I'm not used to a microphone but it is important that we are heard and I know we're on TV and this is important. So I'm going to do an introduction. Their biographies are on the Board agenda so you can see their rich backgrounds. What I want to highlight is the balance that we have tonight with human resources. We have Danielle Connelly, the associate vice president of school service of California. Her background is all HR and she expressed that to me with great pride. And Lynette Hudson is the person who represents our chief business officers but also other jobs in the world of K-12. But she's our money person so if you think about whatever it is related to declining enrollment, human resources, personnel, dramatically affected when a district grows or when a district shrinks, and the money dramatically affected also whether a district grows or whether a district shrinks. So I'm delighted to have such expertise in front of us. I'm not sure who I turn it over to but we turn it over to Danielle. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. How about now? Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the introduction and I appreciate you not reading our bios or else it would have made me sweaty and embarrassed. So good evening President Acosta, governing board, Mr. Scheckman, administration and school community. As was noted earlier, I'm Danielle and I'm here tonight for this session regarding a very complicated topic, declining enrollment. And we're going to walk through how to operationalize a response. In addition to what Mr. Scheckman shared earlier, our experiences Lynette and I, we have worked in districts that were also experiencing less students and also fiscal difficulties. And so we have a depth of experience in terms of addressing these challenges as it relates to the budget and then staffing adjustments. So what I want to do before we start the presentation is provide the board with an overview and plan for tonight's discussion. So first and foremost, we all know why we're here. The district has experienced less students in terms of trends within the last 10 years. And we're not going to focus too much on that because you already know that. We're going to focus more on what the implications of that factor is to the budget and then discuss industry standards and best practices for addressing those implications. We're going to start by focusing on the fiscal aspects. And through all of this we have included in our presentation tonight state certified data. In addition to data that we've collected from district staff, and we've noted that throughout the presentation. After Lynette overviews the fiscal implications, I'm going to take over and talk about staffing control. Talk about how to address making reductions in staff. Or how to address right sizing and aligning your workforce with your student population. We're also going to discuss facility considerations and specifically student enrollment at some of your school sites and how to come up with a plan to address any concerns in that area. And then if I still have your attention by the end of tonight, we're going to talk about a plan. How to prepare what your role as a board is in this plan and how to organize and prepare for the future. In addition, we have slides at the end of each section for discussion and questions. And if the board would like to signal and ask a question about any particular slide, just let us know. I would also like to take a break somewhere in the middle of this, somewhere around maybe 7.30 or so, so we can get a leg stretch and maybe a drink of water throughout the night. All right, so as far as what is happening throughout the state, our state has experienced a decline in enrollment over the last 20 years. Our state population is on a downward trend and as a result, our public schools have experienced less students. Now, the historic formula to respond to less students has always been less students, less money, less staff. It was always a pretty straightforward formula. However, the pandemic came and went and during that time it really took that formula and put it on its head. And what I mean by that is we had significant drops in enrollment and student attendance throughout the state, but we had access to more money than we ever have historically with access to emergency funding resources. And then we are also coming off of a hiring frenzy where as a state, public schools have hired more staff than we ever have. And so what this has resulted in overall is a misalignment between the student levels that we currently have now and our staffing needs. So there's a great surge in terms of level of urgency in addressing this misalignment as the access to our temporary funding sources is starting to come to an end. And I'm going to cover some of that later. Too fast. There it is. Okay, I think I include this slide just to confuse us all. But in terms of this particular slide, the takeaway here is our California demographics, our population is getting older. And why that matters to us in public schools is overall our population is aging, which means that we are having less kids enter public schools. As we look into the out years, by 2030, we see our population growth is dropped to an extremely low level while the average age in California is in its 40s. We know that our California families are having children later and this is causing gaps between where we are now and the number of children who are of age to enter our schools. And so what is the takeaway from this slide? The takeaway is that we are in for the long haul as it relates to the student trends that we're seeing in enrollment. In terms of the district, this is the slide. This is the reason really why we're here. We see that the district over the last 10 years has lost around 3,000 kids or 15%. So there's been a significant loss from 13, 14 through 22, 23. Now recall that point I made earlier about the misalignment in number of students and staffing that we've seen throughout the state. The district is not unique in that it has also experienced a misalignment between students and staff. So you see here on this graph that we've got our downward steps. Now, this particular slide, this is your staffing and this information comes from your position control reports. And we see in this graph on the right hand side here between 1920 and 23, 24, we've had an upswing and staffing. 2021 was our COVID year and that's pretty typical in terms of it's kind of a year of loss where we didn't do a lot of hiring and we're almost at a stop gap with staffing. But you do see here that you've added 85.54 FTE over the last five years. The majority of that FTE is classified staffing. You've stayed rather flat within your teacher staffing. However, this particular data point is something that is consistent with what we've seen throughout the state in staffing trends. So this is a point that will keep in mind as we walk through the presentation and especially as we get to the staffing section and we talk about how to right size and align our staffing needs. And so with that Lynette, I think I'm ready to pass it to you. Thank you, Danielle. Hopefully can you hear me?  So we'll go into this. A lot of this data is data you've seen. It's the data that came out of your first interim and I know that you looked at it extensively and were provided information. In this presentation I'm going to talk to you about how to take the information that you've already seen and use it as data points to consider as you make a plan for moving forward. So this is how money comes to the district. As you can see, 65% of your dollars comes from the state in the form of LCFF. That is a calculation of a per student amount that is determined by the state. And it is calculated based on the ADA, your student in attendance, not just enrollment, but how many students are attending and the unduplicated count. So that's where the majority of your dollars come from. And it's the majority of your unrestricted dollars, which is important. You can see that federal revenue is 14%. Federal revenue actually comes to the district by census data. So it isn't always some of it is by ADA, but most of it is actually by census data. So that isn't a direct correlation of your ADA. It's the population in your entire area, but it's not as impacted by attendance. Other state revenue is, again, impacted by your attendance because it is usually sent to districts by ADA as well. And many of the state dollars are actually taken into consideration, the unduplicated student count, which is, I'll remind you, is the students that are socioeconomically disadvantaged, the English learners, and foster youth. So the other state revenue is impacted by your enrollment as well. You have other local revenue. And then you also, for this fiscal year, are intending to transfer dollars from another fund into the general fund. So I always want to make sure that that stands out because that's one-time dollars. This is how the LCFF is calculated, and I believe you probably have already seen this, but I want to make sure that you have an opportunity to ask any questions. You can see that they are, it is calculated by grade level. Transitional kindergarten through third grade has one base level. Fourth through sixth grade has a different base level, seventh through eighth and ninth through twelfth. That is important because your collective bargaining agreement also includes class sizes that are correlated with the same grade levels. So being able to know how to staff at each grade level is important and knowing how much each student calculates or generates at that grade level. You can see the 8.22% COLA for this fiscal year, and you can see what the 23-24 base grant is. Then you can see in the next column the grade span adjustment for TK-3 for keeping the class sizes below 24-1 as an average. In your collective bargaining agreement, you have it as a hard cap. So that is something that you have to consider locally that other boards maybe don't have to consider. So I point those things out because those are all data points that you have to look at. So your collective bargaining agreement has a hard cap for those grade levels. And then for ninth through twelfth, you get a grade span adjustment for career technical education. So being able to offer additional programs for the high school. That's why the high school is higher. So you can see what the adjusted base grant for this fiscal year is. They're on the right. And here are the funding factors for the supplemental and concentration. You get an additional 20% off of the base for anything above any of the unduplicated students is 20%. And that's a flat out whatever your percentage of unduplicated is. And then if you have above 55%, you get an additional 65% for each of those students that is above the 55%. So that's not as easy of a calculation. So it really is based on a complicated formula, but you can see how much you receive. Again, we're going to talk a lot about ADA because ADA is the primary driving force. When you look at those LCFF calculations, knowing that it's 65% of your budget, ultimately the board has very little control over how much money you receive. And I use the word control because it really is driven by the state and the state formula. Do you have influence? Absolutely. There's influence and we'll talk some as we go through this. But for you, the control is this is what we get per student and it's based on ADA. So there's a result of the pandemic. There is actually some relief for declining enrollment districts prior to the pandemic. LCFF funding was based on either the current year or the prior year, whichever was highest. And so districts in declining enrollment got a one year relief. So that wasn't much time, but it was a little bit of time for a reaction. Now, after the pandemic, the education code has been updated. So you can actually compute it over an average of the most recent three years.  And I actually am happy to be standing in front of you at a time when you have that extra time. And this is your we're considering it because as was alluded to, I actually worked in a district that didn't react in time. I wasn't there when they did not make the choices early on. And I had to help them make those choices after the fact and it was hard. So I commend you guys for making some of the choices that you've already been making. I know based on the budget report that you've been considering this over time. So I just wanted to make sure that you guys understand how that calculation happens and that there has been a recent change to smooth things out for districts that are in declining enrollment. Any questions about that? I'm going to just reserve to our protocol, normal protocol on this and being compliance with our agenda, how it's set, as well as Brown Act. So we're going to have you all go through your presentation and then we're going to open it for public comment and then bring it back to the board. So I just would encourage everyone take your notes and we'll bring them back up for discussion from the board. Okay. That's good to know. So here are the enrollment trends and you can actually see before the pandemic, about a 94% attendance rate and this district, just like all the rest of the districts, had a significant decline in enrollment and attendance rates after the pandemic and you can see it's dropped at 87.17 in 21-22 and then has risen a little bit. So hopefully you're still seeing some of the increases in that and this is where I say you don't necessarily have control but schools have influence about the ADA and about attendance and if you have actions at school sites happening to encourage attendance, this is how you have some influence. Creating programs to get kids excited about coming to school, those type of things is the influence. And this slide actually is really about that influence versus control. LCFF, you have influence about the attendance. You have some influence about the unduplicated pupil tracking. Are you encouraging parents to fill out the free and reduced applications because now with the two free meals a day for every student across the state, we've seen a decrease in districts collecting the forms. So again, you don't necessarily have control over that but if you can get some influence and get people to start filling those out because we are seeing actually a decline in the unduplicated student count but we don't believe that that's probably accurate. We probably believe it's more just because people aren't filling out the forms anymore. So again, that's an area of influence for the board and for the schools. Federal revenues, there are ways to influence that by applications for programs and grants but those are, again, those are considerations. You're not going to automatically get additional dollars from the federal government. It would be something you'd have to go after. Other state revenues, again, that's applications for grants, looking at parcel taxes or collecting fees for transportation or athletic things. So those are ways that you could influence additional funds but not necessarily have control over them. This is where boards and the community have great control over how dollars are allocated. You get the dollars that the state allocates or the federal government allocates but you have program decisions. How are the programs designed? The number of programs you offer? The location of those offerings. What curriculum and materials, curriculum and instructional materials are you using? And what are the range of programs offered? Are the programs being offered the ones that get kids to come to school? Those are the local decisions you make. Staffing decisions, the organization of the administrative staff, class sizes. I mentioned that. You have some collective bargaining agreement that includes some hard caps and those are considerations and choices that you make. The staffing levels for pupil support positions. During the pandemic, we had dollars to offer additional social-emotional support that was desperately needed. At a local level, you decide what of those supports you are able to maintain moving forward. Staffing levels to support facilities and district operations. We'll talk about the facilities and the need to maintain those facilities. Salary and benefits. Of course that's a local decision. The community services, the use of facilities agreements and how much is charged for the use of facilities agreements or if they're not charged. I will tell you that that's very difficult in a community where you're trying to build relationships. I know that you want to be able to open up the school facilities for those things but there is a cost for those. You have to balance that out. Is the district covering costs for organizations that maybe they should be able to help and support? Again, those are local conversations to have. The recreational use agreements. Sharing park facilities before and after school supervision. Those are all local decisions that you have control over. This is where the money goes for this district. Again, this comes right from your first interim. You can see the certificated salaries, classified salaries and benefits. That's 73% of your budget. That's where you have to really look at things. Capital outlay is 7%. You're spending money on purchasing equipment and refreshing it. That was one of the things that many districts are doing now, especially with the one-time dollars. We are seeing an increase in the capital outlay across the state. The summary of the problem is really balancing the staffing and expenditures to the student enrollment, making sure that you can afford what you have in the budget. During the last economic depression, student achievement actually improved because school boards actually had these conversations. They were forced, unfortunately, to set back and say, what is it that we really want to do as a district? What is our priority? We don't have the money to do everything we want to do. So let's prioritize and make sure that we do what's the most important to us. This is an interesting slide to me when I think about that from a program standpoint, because you think, oh, during a time when we have more money, that would mean that we have better success with students. But it actually lends me to believe that it's like, oh, we kind of lose our focus when we can do those kind of things. So this is an opportunity to say, this is what's important to us. So this is a chart that we use, and again, this is a data point, and it's using some of your data points. So if you lose 120 students, this particular chart is written thinking about kindergarten or kindergarten through third grade students. So if from one year to the next, you lost 120 students, the decline for ADA would be 110, give or take. So the income lost over in that left box is for your district, approximately $14,721 per K3 student. Remember when I showed you the different amounts. So this is actually really specific to K3. So you lose revenue of $1.6 million for losing those 120 students. Based on your trends, that's not out of the realm of possibility for you. So if you staff at 24 to 1, and those kids come in in perfect little packages across schools, and you're able to reduce five teachers, you have a savings of $485,000. Because the average salary of a novice teacher for you is $97,000, and that includes the benefits as well. So you can see the savings, and then if you gave $400 per student for materials and supplies, it's $48,000. So the proportional savings is really only $533,000, but you lost $1.6 million. So being able to look at this as a data point and where are the additional cuts going to come from is really critical. So some of the local considerations, this again is a data point I want to share, because in that calculation, the health and welfare benefits is part of that. You have really healthy health and welfare benefits for your employees, which is good. It's higher than the statewide average, and it's higher than the Region 5, but it is part of the local decision that you've made to retain staff. So you have to be able to step back and look at that and be aware of what those decisions are. And it creates pressure. This is your special education numbers. You can see that as enrollment decreased over the past 10 years, your students with disabilities has stayed pretty consistent. Therefore, the percentage of students with disabilities has gone up. The statewide average for students with disabilities is about 13.5%. And I will say, I was the special education director for 12 years. This is one of my places that pulls at my heart strings, but looking at that and saying, are we over identifying students? Do they need to be in the more restrictive, more expensive placements, or are there things that we should be doing inside the general education classroom to support kids? That's a data point and a conversation because special education programs are more costly to run. And we have problems staffing them. So you have that dual problem happening. So is this a data point that we need to consider and look at in the whole complex situation? So you can see the special education revenue has gone up in the past five years and the special education expense has gone up slightly, but not considerably. So you can see the local contribution and you can see that the percentage of your total contribution for special education out of general education is 10.17%. This was in 21-22 based on statewide data. And for consideration, I'm going to go back to that other slide. Maybe. You can see that you are educating 17.93% of your kids in special education and that contribution is 10.17%. So you have to look at that in correlation with one another. But it is a data point that has to, that you have to take into consideration. The impact on the multi-year projections, multi-year projections are your planning tool. What is happening? Revenues are flattening out and expenses continue to rise. Step in column is going up. The inflation makes other goods and services going up. Utilities are increasing. So as the revenues are flattening or even declining, you have cost pressures that are increasing. So looking at it and being very transparent and honest is important. I'm going to look at your first interim by your projection and talk through some of that. So you can see, this was what the board adopted at first interim. And you can see the revenues across the top are projected even with the COLA of 3.94% to go down in both 24, 25, and 25, 26. You can actually see the total expenditures is projected to go down for next year. I assume that's because of the attrition in staffing and probably some loss or some reductions in that capital outlay that I pointed out because you use some of the one-time dollars to purchase materials and supplies. So those cost savings are there, but you can see that there are not projected to be additional cost savings between 24, 25, and 25, 26. You can see the beginning fund balance going down. That's your savings account. And you see on this slide that transfer in that I mentioned. You only have the money to transfer that in one fiscal year. So you can see the ending fund balance decreases. It goes from a 20% reserve in 2324 down to 19.6 and then down to 14.11. However, and I believe that this is a chart that you also saw at first interim, the COLA is actually projected to come in less for 24, 25, and I assume that this is going to look more like what second interim is going to look like. But again, this is from your first interim and I think that you saw it. You can see the revenues decreasing in 24, 25. You can see the expenditures are staying the same in this projection. And you can see that the available reserves in 24, 25 goes down to 17.5%. So you're using more reserves. And that actually re-benches the total revenue for 25, 26. So the lower COLA in 24, 25 also impacts 25, 26 because it re-benches what the cost or the revenue for a child is going to be. So you can see that the revenues in 25, 26 go down even more and the available revenues goes down to 9.6. So conservative or aggressive enrollment projections. If you have a demographic study and you've been watching the projections, it's like how do we decide whether we're using aggressive enrollment or conservative? So the conservative tends to be on the low end of the actual enrollment. So it's projecting fewer kids. If you're conservative, when you're looking at the conservative numbers, you want to actually budget conservatively. These are the number of kids we think that we're going to have and we want to budget on the low side, right? Looking at staffing, we want to budget for fewer kids and give yourself some wiggle room. Aggressive enrollment projections are how you want to look at your facilities planning. You want to make sure that if you have more kids next year, then your conservative approach was that you have space for them. So you actually need to, in this complex situation, look at both conservative enrollment and aggressive enrollment because you want to make sure that you have space for kids and you want to make sure that you have books for kids. So that's the hard part. In a budget, the revenue side is actually probably going to be that conservative lower number. But when I have to staff or have school facilities and have materials and supplies, I have to have that ready on the aggressive side. So being conservative on the staffing side means you're going to start classes higher. It means you're going to wait until the kids are sitting in the seats before you hire another teacher, those type of things. And those are hard practices to have from a program standpoint, from a principal standpoint, from a teacher standpoint. And so that's why having these conversations and as a board and as an administrative team looking at this data and being clear about it is critical. So also you can actually put together a declining enrollment reserve in your budget. So looking at and projecting the enrollment what you expect to lose and then calculating that lowest likely enrollment loss and creating a reserve in your budget. You can actually do that and that would be a good practice and recommendation and calculating that is important. So this is how you calculate that. We think we're going to lose 500 kids. That's what that top line is. The lowest likely is okay, maybe we only lose 220. So the number of students and staffing in reserve is that 280. It's that middle ground between the conservative and the aggressive. If this is 4th through 6th grade, it's 28 to 1. Again, I used math that was pretty easy, but they never come in in these easy, pretty packages. I just got to say that. But in this scenario, you have 10 FTE and you keep that amount reserved in your budget. So in this case, with the 97,000 per teacher it would be $970,000 reserve. These numbers are not unrealistic for your district and the numbers that are happening. So although I made them nice round numbers, they aren't completely unreasonable. So the budget considerations, you could actually have this in a separate line item in your personnel budget. That increases your routine restricted maintenance contribution. The other option is to have it in the assigned fund balance. And the difference with that is, up in the personnel line, it's very clear for most part. And if it's down in the assigned balance, sometimes it looks like it's hidden, but it's not being hidden. You could actually identify it in the SACS document that that's what it's for.  And so then, once school starts and you look at the staffing reserve and whether or not you need to add staff, then you actually have budget line that you can start releasing the salaries for additional staff. So that is one way you can help in the budget to have a reserve. So let's look at, and Danielle already kind of talked about this, but let's look at what's happening realistically from 2018-19 to 22-23 for your staffing. In 2018-19, certificated non-management staff, you had 1,666 and a half FTE with 19,088. So your student to staff ratio was 17.91. In 22-23, you can see that your FTE went up and your ADA went down and the ratio of students to staff is now at 14.32. And again, this is not classified, this is just certificated non-management. So you have seven more FTE, yet you have 3,681 fewer ADA, not students, that's ADA. And so you have went from 17.91 class sizes ratio to 14.32. And again, you probably have certificated staff that's doing something other than non-classroom instruction. So this is just a data point that I'm looking at. It does not tell the whole story, but this is how you could look at some of the data points. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Danielle to talk about staffing. Take a break, Lynette, that was a lot. Okay, no discussion. So we are going to keep it moving. All right, we're going to go to slide 30 and shift gears and talk about staffing and the HR operation side of this story. In terms of making any adjustments in your staffing levels, in schools we are governed by very restrictive, unflexible, unforgiving laws that force us into positions where we have to make very important decisions regarding our staff before we have all the information we need regarding our budget. In terms of addressing any staffing adjustments if the district decides to do that, I want to emphasize here and we'll emphasize throughout, it's really important that we focus on services and programs and not people. This is such a difficult topic to discuss, and when it becomes upsetting and emotional, it's easy just to start focusing on people and to say that person should be laid off and not me. But it is also important to emphasize that every position is here in place in this district for a reason and serves a really important purpose. And the people who are in those positions have value and they matter. And so that's why this discussion becomes very difficult. When we talk about staffing and personnel expenditures, we're not just talking about your staff that are contract positions, your temporary staffing, your short-term staffing, your institute staffing, contractors, vendors, coaches, any sort of personnel expenditure that results in a payroll transaction is encompassed in your staffing. In addition to personnel, we also consider our supplies, our professional learning opportunities, our certain resources. Again, all of it is so critically important to the district staff being able to do their jobs and do them well and to serve students. But when you are in a critical moment to make decisions, there are moments where you sometimes have to make a choice regarding certain programs and services, whether you'll be able to sustain them long-term, make reductions, or eliminate them. It starts with really just determining what do you offer, what are your services, and what are your programs. In the process of just simply identifying that, you'll discover there's probably some programs and services that maybe everybody wasn't aware that were being offered. Once you determine what your programs and services are, categorizing them in terms of a level is very helpful. There's some services that you are required to offer. They may be in your LCAP, maybe they are required by law, might be related to student safety and health matters, and so those are your level one legal required services that you must offer. Then there's level two, again, not less important, but they're not legally required. They're critically important, they enhance student experiences and also for employees additional support, but those are level two and not legally required. And then level three functions, support student learning operations, but these may be substitute services, vendor contracts, different areas and supports that may be in place that are not part of that core level one area. It's also important to emphasize that reductions do not exist in isolation. If you were to reduce your FTE for some classroom support services, that is going to impact your remaining classroom teachers. I'll share an example with you. We, in one of the districts I worked in, we were going through a difficult reduction phase and we had an enrollment center at the district office. And as part of our reductions, we eliminated the enrollment center and staff were laid off and we distributed enrollment services to the school sites. Well, nobody paid attention to the detail except the school sites were part-time. So they were working 10 to 2, right? And we know parents don't show up exactly between 10 to 2, they need services and support throughout the day. And so we had to make some adjustments to our school site personnel and I share that because we had a projected savings from that reduction but we didn't actually capture that because we had to fill in those support services. So that's just an example that I share really taking a comprehensive look at the framework you have in place to ensure that you are aware of all the impacts of any reductions made. In terms of monitoring your staffing levels, this is something that you can do now to lessen the impact later. I mentioned that we've been in a hiring frenzy and everybody has. The staffing needs are through the roofs that it's magnifying the teacher shortage. We are having a lot of difficulties and problems in our classified ranks in some ways more than our teacher ranks and we really had a knee-jerk reaction with staffing and what I mean by that is we have a problem, we need to solve it, add 10 positions and solve it. This person left replaced them right away without really taking a step back and looking at do we really truly need the staffing resource and by the way I don't know what's happening here, I'm just a visitor I'm just saying this is a trend that has happened throughout the state that is fueling the staffing frenzy. Looking at your enrollment and Lynette talked a lot about enrollment earlier looking truly at your enrollment and your class size requirements and your collective bargaining agreement can be a very useful tool. If you are filling your classrooms closer to those limitations that is going to drive down your FTE needs and what you can do now is you can reorganize and restructure and maybe transfer and reassign within the staffing that you already have versus just replacing a teacher when they leave and I mentioned this factor because what this will do will lessen impacts down the road should you need to reduce staffing the less staff that you hire now the less impacts you'll have as you move forward in addition take a look at your temporary contracts a lot of temporary contracts were issued in the last couple of years based on our temporary emergency resources because they're finite they have a beginning and an end date and so we've had contracts to reflect that take a look at those temporary contracts that are ending and employees whose employment is terminating reconsider whether you need to replace them in addition to looking at your classified positions and your temporary funding resources which are coming to an end soon and I think that's on the next slide you've got to really watch those timelines and look at the positions that are funded with those resources because once those resources expire you've got to find another funding source for them and here they are okay so as I've been mentioning this slide it just has the major buckets not every bucket of temporary funding resources the big one was SR3 the intention of SR3 was for districts to hire and retain staff and that's what everybody did right that's what was in this hiring frenzy that was the intent of this money the problem here and the difficulty is that it's expiring September 3rd, 2024 and as I mentioned earlier these expiration dates do not align with the legal timelines to reduce staff it's off so the challenge really is starting with identifying the positions that are funded with these resources identifying what those timelines are and then making the adjustments as necessary because one of three things will need to happen because when it expires that means you will no longer have access to this money so you either need to identify another resource for these positions you'll either need to eliminate the position or the temp contract will end one of those three things will happen you'll have to find another resource you may be wondering well how many of these positions do we have funded with this temporary funding you have about 6% 6.6% in 21-22 of positions in this district are funded with temporary funding resources I don't know if it's the one that is expiring in September but they've got expiration dates so this is an important data point as you think about your staffing moving forward and devising a plan to help you identify what you're going to do with these particular positions in terms of looking at reductions by employee group we typically look at the overall cost and I think Lynette had a slide like this very similar earlier I'll go through the pieces of the pie we have our blue certificated non-management our classified non-management total administration the mustard yellow there those are your classified and certificated manager salaries your health and welfare benefits for everybody are in the red everything else are your employer obligations so your STRS, CalSTRS CalPERS, retirement all of your other obligations that are employer paid for the district so if you look at that pie there you see that your salaries are going to equal a certain percentage of that pie and if you think about how are we going to make these reductions if you do move forward in that direction you want to take a balanced approach sometimes we might say let's just reduce these positions that's how we're going to tackle this if you were to pick one of those little pieces of the pie you see that that won't be very impactful in terms of making an overall improvement in the budget so it's just something to think about I don't have any recommendations either way it's just a consideration as you consider your programs your services and your staffing that support those services this timeline I'm going to park us on this timeline for just a second these are those restrictive and unflexible rules that I talked about these are the layoff timelines for classified and certificated which are now running on the same timeline and then the state budget timeline what makes me crazy about this timeline is that you see that the budget timeline does not align with the state budget timeline so you need to make decisions in January before your state budget is adopted by July 1st it puts you at a real disposition because you're really having to forecast and plan when you don't have all the information that you need I didn't make this up so I can't do anything about it but this is where you are so as far as this particular timeline you see that in January the governor's budget comes out but those districts who are thinking about implementing layoffs and are planning are typically doing that well before looking at their programs looking at their services talking as a board and a school community about it if administration is showing up March 12th with a board resolution and you don't know anything about it it will go very well if you were to look at the articles this week alone I think there's three or four districts where the boards did not approve layoff resolutions 80 positions 30 positions I don't know what's going to happen but I think to myself well it's done now so now you have to wait till next year because once you miss this window no later than March 15th for the preliminary layoff notices the window is shut that's it so keeping in mind that certificate and classified layoffs run at the same time you're typically staggering that for operational reasons and just to work with all of the nuances of the layoff the other thing that I want to emphasize here is that we're really focused on positions in March not people don't be afraid of this slide I'm not going to read the whole thing to you but in terms of the mechanics of the layoff these are the documents that the board will typically see we hear PKS resolution frequently and it is a particular kinds of services PKS and that March resolution is focused on services and programs those are the areas that are listed in that document for board consideration in addition there are tie breaking and skipping criteria which may be included on that resolution or separated ok employees are not listed on that resolution and the reason why is because there's a lot of bumping and displacement that happens during layoffs so if you see a particular position or program listed on that resolution you might identify oh it's this person that I know but come May when the layoff resolution is finalized somebody else's name may be on there because that person may be senior and displacing so again focused on positions and program at that time there's also other criteria that the board can establish and I think I have a slide coming up here but it's called skipping criteria and you can protect and skip certain programs the typical common program that is protected is usually special education we don't want people bumping around with our credentialed special ed teachers emergent programs bilingual there's many areas that are really set within the unique LEA in terms of vacancies that you have listed in position control those positions that don't impact anybody but they do impact the budget should be included on those resolutions right you should include even your vacant positions to capture savings in terms of the process there was a hearing and then the final resolution comes in May it must be notices must be received prior to May 15th if HR is absent or something on May 15th that means that your layoff is inoperable so like I said very restrictive timelines matter some other considerations the ed code requires for classified that any reductions in time any reduction in work hours reduction in work year requires negotiations so the decision to eliminate a position in totality for classified is not negotiable if you were to reduce work years work year or work hours that is subject to negotiations so if that is something that may occur then you certainly want to start planning and working with your labor partners ahead of time in addition for certificated the rehiring process is also negotiable and so working and communicating with labor partners is critically important in all of this to ease the pain of the process now I did talk about this earlier there is planning involved with certificated staffing reductions where it is important to consider your programs your special certifications your special skills that you don't want employees who hold those certifications or licenses or skill sets in certain assignments that are bumped from their assignment so that is something that is typically presented within that PKS resolution I'll mention this with a big old slab of caution but I have to tell you about it there is something called the summer layoff window which many in this room may have never heard of before and that's because it hasn't happened too often in the last 20 or 30 years the summer layoff window has opened about five times and three of those times it's been deemed inoperable by the legislature but I have to tell you about it because of the funding threshold that we are in fact meeting this year and that is very specific so the local control funding formula LCFF you've heard that throughout our presentation per average daily attendance has not increased by at least 30% from the prior year once that funding threshold is met then the code that you see here on this slide provide for a different layoff window which begins five days after the budget is enacted July 1st which is usually July 5th or 6th through August 15th so it's basically a stacked layoff this has only been open twice in history it was unfortunate enough to be in a district where we did implement this layoff and it was terrible I can attest to that and it is currently still operable but I would say I'm applying caution to it because I say don't count on it it's not well tested and it shouldn't be something that well we don't want to make these decisions now so we'll rely on this but I just wanted to share it is there in law positively assured attrition which I think the district is currently engaging in to save money and to adjust staffing means that you are documenting your known terminations your known retirements your known resignations and you are either not hiring or you're saving jobs through those positively assured attrition notices it's also helpful to talk with laborer about early notice of retirement or resignation like in January to incentivize early notification to help mitigate some of those impacts if you know if people know they're retiring if they know they're resigning that can save jobs some of the reductions that you may need to make if you know some folks are leaving no discussion and Lynette I think we're back to you do we want to take a break or we're going to keep trucking we're going to keep moving through we're moving yeah we're going no leg stretch we're going to talk about district facilities right now the impact on facilities on homes vacated due to declining enrollment rarely stay vacant staff members expand into those spaces I understand why sometimes it's your counselors the psychologists the resource specialist special education supplemental services storage needs sometimes moving into that empty space is necessary for student services so again I'm going to protect my special education people in some districts they don't have space to provide services confidentially they're in a closet or something like this so although this is listed as expanding into space you want to make sure that that's done in a very conscious way because if a service provider needs to have space now you have space to provide that and that's important for your students making sure that you say okay if this space is going to be used it's used with a purpose and it's used with intent not just added storage we had places where the PTA had three or four rooms on the campuses we had three or four staff lounges where lunch was eaten so they had to be cleaned every single day so I know that everybody wants a private office and it's really tempted to be there but when the room is vacant it really needs to be vacant so the custodial staff doesn't have to clean it daily or even weekly it doesn't have to be maintained you aren't paying for air conditioning or utilities so really knowing whether or not the space is to be used or not so when we're talking about that that's really as we're talking about because I know that there's a lot of go should we be talking about closing a campus how to repurpose a campus that type of thing going to tell you the most important thing to do is actually to close classrooms and to really shut them and lock them so they don't have to be maintained anymore so that's one of the first things you can do to help in looking at the impact for facilities and we had classes we had middle school teachers who had plenty of space on their middle school and they each had three classrooms that they used every single day because when they went from one class to another they actually switched rooms and they had their lab set up it made sense from a teacher standpoint but that was three classrooms that the custodian had to clean so looking at that impact on facilities and saying vacated classrooms still vacated or not is really critical in this piece looking at the facilities opportunities I talked about that influence so how can you repurpose some of these vacant facilities can you look at expanding a pre-k program can you look at expanding the extended learning opportunities the before and after school programs could it be a dual immersion program a STEM Academy can you use it for technology or robotics art spaces music spaces if it doesn't have a purpose can you repurpose it to use it to influence what is happening and getting kids in attendance so I encourage you to look at it from that standpoint and again if the classroom is to be vacated that's one thing but if you are as a district looking at the facilities as opportunities to grow programs then you have that chance this is the time and other alternatives to underused or unused facilities is a parent adult education program partnering with the community college the dual enrollment programs looking at the community school programs I know Danielle talked about closing an enrollment center but would it actually increase your student participation by having a community center or a wellness center that you could use some of that space community partnerships bringing in someone community activity that you really can make your schools the center of the community looking at a school site that is empty and isn't being maintained isn't really good for the district or for the community so being able to repurpose them is really critical right now school closures may be needed but it shouldn't necessarily be your first consideration and we'll look at some of the data so you have that honest conversation but the first conversation really ought to be about can we repurpose this site and be a center for our community and offer services there and some of the services offered sometimes come with grants so the federal government states, counties have grants so looking at that so this is the data points or conversations I want you to think about when you think about closing classrooms or facilities what is the maximum savings for closing a facility what are the enrollment trends say what's the size of the campus is the campus close to another location can the kids easily get from one location to another what's the condition and type of that facility what's access to traffic and safety and is there equity issues by closing one campus so really looking at that and saying what what does this look like and knowing before you have that conversation what your criteria is so I can't emphasize that enough you don't want to go in like Danielle said about the reduction in force you don't want to just go and think about people in this same case you don't want to start talking about campuses until you identify what your criteria is what is our importance and what are we going to say is the criteria we're looking at so I'm going to tell you that this slide is really critical and I'll refer back to it in a couple slides use of facilities you want to actually go through a master plan process and determine which schools are needed to serve your demographic future if you're thinking about it you want to engage legal counsel early because there is a process to close schools there's hoops eventually you actually have to pay for unused campuses there's a fee after the fifth year of paying a little over one percent the assessed value that you actually have to pay to close a campus so you want to take that into consideration when you're thinking what are the real savings for closing a campus don't overestimate the ongoing savings of a closing campus so you might save on the clerical staff but those teachers because you're going to move those kids somewhere else so the teachers need to go somewhere else the custodian is going to still have to clean those classrooms that just move to another campus so you're probably not going to have savings of custodial staff those kids are going to be eating in the cafeteria so you're probably not going to be having savings of cafeteria staff because you're still going to have to feed those kids at their new campus so be really realistic about what is the savings of closing a campus there's a lot of a lot to be determined if you're going to make that decision but I don't want you to overestimate what the savings are certainly you'll save the cost of the site administrator unless it makes the other campus so big that you need to add administrative staff again clerical staff you only have one secretary maybe but if you move all of those kids to a second campus you may actually need to add more clerical support so being very very realistic about what those cost savings would be also if it increases your transportation costs or if you don't have the ability to transport the kids will you be actually reducing your ADA because the kids can't get there and I actually work very closely with the school site right now and that is the real issue for that particular school site the local school that they were closest to closed and so they were assigned another school site that's within walking distance so transportation was not an increased cost but those kids if you look at the heat map of their attendance it's significantly impacted because when it's cold when it's really hot they don't walk they can't get there so looking at it from that realistic standpoint and doing those considerations are really important if you have a vacant campus charter schools can request those facilities from the district again that might have an impact on your enrollment in ADA prepare for educational partner engagement if you're going to do that involve the community in the planning again if there's somebody in the community that can come in an organization and say oh maybe we could rent these facilities and repurpose them that's the importance of engaging your community reviewing the alternatives which programs will be eliminated if the school isn't closed looking at it from honest standpoint if we keep all of these schools open does that mean that we have to eliminate this program and be honest as a group about it how many staff members is equal to the savings of keeping all the schools open looking at that get agreement that closing schools retains programs for the children study all the options make sure that you are all in agreement and you engage early about it early action is more effective and less drastic just like if you wait too long to reduce staff the longer you wait to reduce staff the more drastic it is that's the same case with if you're going to close a school it just gets more drastic as you push it down before I talk about these data points I'm going to actually go back to this slide as a reminder because I'm going to talk about these data points but again it is only one data point in this whole spectrum of what you should consider considering the savings the enrollment trends the size proximity to other locations the condition and type of facility access and equity I'm going to use this data point without knowing any of that information so I'm going to pick the first school on the top because I don't know the condition of the school I don't know any of the dynamics of the school we'll just talk about the elementary MSD MSD am I saying that right MSD it has 34 classrooms the enrollment capacity of those 34 classrooms is 704 kids the enrollment projection is for 2425 is 377 so that elementary for 2425 potentially is at 54% okay so if you go back and you look at all of those other considerations let's talk about those 377 kids because those are the kids that would be impacted by closing it is there a place where they can easily go as a group is that what you would be looking at is sending them as a cohesive group would you be splitting them up is there two or three school sites that you could split them up because 377 kids if I look at the capacity at your other school sites there's not really a place for them to easily go in a happy little package so it would be splitting them up and I talk about happy little packages because that's really what you it's like can we just move them and the likelihood that you could just move all 377 kids is unlikely so it's going to impact one, two, three other school sites and do you have capacity at those schools that are within a reasonable distance for those kids to go so that's how you look at this data and I wanted you just to be able to see the data and think about it but again it is only one piece of the data that's the enrollment capacity and what that looks like and this is the enrollment capacity and again these are projections this is probably not 100% accurate these are looking at what it might look like for 24, 25 so taking that into consideration these are the middle schools what grade levels are there can you change the grade at the grades that are there and does that change anything we actually closed our middle school and sent all of the kids to K8 we closed the middle school sent the kids back to the K8 it was disruptive we repurposed the middle school and made it a different program so we did that I also was in a district that we sent the 6th graders back to the middle school so it increased the attendance at our elementary schools so looking at either one of those were perfect they both had their own set of issues that went along with it but looking at it from that standpoint and saying how do we make this work instead of closing a school if that really is a consideration so you can see the high schools there so again these are just we see that we still have our room with us for the communication and where do we go from here section including some students in the room which I'm very impressed they've been engaged in listening I'm sure we haven't inspired them into our career and education but stay with it alright so where do we go from here what do we do there's just so much information in this presentation and I know it's 7.30 at night and it's a little bit overwhelming the timing is everything and just even starting this conversation is so impactful wherever your journey takes you whatever decisions are made they're going to be your decisions that you locally have made to address your unique challenges working together is critically important and each educational partner within the district holds a role superintendent is communicating engaging with the community organizing surveying staff communicating with the board updating the board really the center central communicator of this work business services they are our fiscal experts they're letting us know what the fiscal implications are the fiscal conditions of the district what we need to save and constantly communicating about those factors educational services drives all decisions regarding programs and instruction and then HR is going to ensure that we're maintaining accurate position control and personnel records we have systems in place to maintain accurate and appropriate staffing and we are also we have any termination in accordance with the statutory timelines and requirements and sometimes in these situations we may notice one person in the room being the person or the voice saying we need to do this or we need to do that and it's not really this cohesive conversation that happens sometimes it is better and more effective if it is a cohesive and collaborative engaged conversation in terms of actions and collaboration again business is going to tell us how much and when what are what is the do we have money that we need to save and when do we need to do it by this year next year two years three years what are our timelines educational services cabinet they're going to work together to look at instructional and operational areas that may be able to tolerate or sustain reductions or elimination HR again we're going to carry out any process in HR and business the operational side of the house should be working together consistently and constantly in this work to make sure that we're communicating about position control position control is not something that I talked a lot about tonight because it's really an operational technical term but quite frankly that is where all of your personnel expenditures for any district this district included our house and if you don't have accurate data in that system all of these determinations are going to be incredibly difficult to make in terms of the governing board you saw earlier in the statutory requirements for making decisions about staffing you have a role in taking action on any recommendations that are made by the district team and administration in terms of what administration should be bringing forward for your consideration it should be accurate it should be meticulous and you should be able to trust that information that you're receiving from your team if you are receiving information that is erroneous then that makes it very difficult for a board to make some of these hard decisions developing staff surveys is a way to really get some input from your school community and from staff I indicated earlier in the beginning of this presentation I've been unfortunate in that I have implemented numerous layoffs I've been involved in layoff procedures that did not go well and were very difficult for all and then I was I have been involved in layoff procedures that were not easy but were not as difficult and when it was less difficult there was strong communication we had a common understanding of the work that we needed to do and we gathered staff input about the impacts of reductions and staffing resources and how that would impact staff that were not laid off would be impacted by that reduction and so these are just some practices that we suggest this is a framework for you to think about and consider as you plan for the future some closing thoughts here like I said we covered a lot of ground tonight and a couple of things that I just want to emphasize reductions in staff equal reductions in services and support for students and operations the less staff that you have the less that you're providing if we reduce staffing and expect the same level of service then there's going to be great difficulty and that's part of that communication piece there's a lot of budgetary information that was shared here tonight regarding the state budget control but what is within your control is local decisions that you make that do impact your district budget communication is critically important and this discussion right here is a good start to that communication and if you don't plan and get in front of this problem those outcomes can be catastrophic if the fiscal implications are not addressed and so with that is the plan President Acosta to take a break or launch into the questions are you both done with your presentation yes thank you then I'm going to call on Vice President Soto or do we have any public speakers to this agenda item good evening everybody yes we do we have six tonight and we'll do our usual roll call of groups of three to come up and speak tonight this is Friday on 4.1 as noted on the comment cards so the first three will be M. Duffy Lisa please help me if I mispronounce this it's Acres Acres how is it pronounced I just want to be correct Achilles okay thank you and Raddy Kirkman and going into comment I'm just going to remind the public that we can only be on this item and each public speaker has two minutes thank you hello just a I revel in absurdism so I just like to just start out first of all your fine law abiding citizens and I appreciate that but we literally just talked about how we don't have enough money and we should eliminate level three functions of which this presentation was one so we spent money having people tell us that we don't have enough money to do exactly what they're telling us we have an HR department we have a finance department that could have told us everything they did but more specific because we focused on statewide information rather than what's going on locally I'm a Giants fan I don't care about what the Dodgers are doing the loss of population in California is Southern California not what's happening here please don't make a decision until we look at local information and local trends because it turns out the largest population group we have according to the last census is in between 19 and 25 which means those people are going to have more little people which are going to eventually need our schools so where's the long-term information I'm not saying we don't have a problem we do but when we come to a solution let's make it a long-term solution all right I want to challenge the statement that this is just about demographics and the easiest example of this would be how are our private schools doing in South County North County they're not doing so good we just lost our private school in North County because they didn't have enough attendance but here there's a waiting list for all our private schools why because parents don't want to send their kids here if parents wanted to send their kids to our school our private schools would be going out of business instead of the opposite all right we just started Watsonville Prep which is taking an additional 30 kids out of our schools every year like where are the kids going our populations increasing not decreasing you said it it's going up 5% addressing health benefits I get it they cost a lot but the reason why they cost a lot is because we don't pay our teachers all right and so the benefit is we are going to pay our teachers as much as the other districts but we're going to give them really good health benefits all right one more thing the last depression was 1929 I'm a history teacher so if we're going to say grades went up in the last depression that would have been 1929 thank you Duffy good evening in the interest of time I'm just going to thank you all for what you're offering tonight especially the transparency the districts attempting to provide to the community members I stand here as a concerned parent a taxpayer an educator and a voting citizen I've stood before you in the past I would like to restate that a school all schools should be a sanctuary they are the cornerstone of our community that has chosen to come to public school while we are looking at data I need to remind the board and others that we are not just numbers we're people again I would like to take a moment to also be a voice for our children with special needs and exceptional needs some of them do not have a voice of their own please know that when we look at the money we spend on our students we cannot place a judgment on the value of the services we provide I understand that the presentations tonight are a response plan but I do need to also echo the previous community member and teacher I would like to know more about causation for declining enrollment it cannot just be about declining birth rate could we help to solve a problem rather than just responding to it speaking as an increasingly involved community member I will say that factors to consider which have not been addressed tonight may be cost of living access to affordable housing for both families and our essential employees and safety on campus I have heard firsthand from families that these are all factors that lead to choosing other avenues of education outside of PVUSD I would also really quickly like to mention the immense value that my children and many others have taken from our district enrichment program including mental health services, art and music and physical education through the supports at Marvis to elementary kindergartener five years old has gone from being a child who comes home from school because of incidents at school saying he wants to die to thriving and perhaps being overconfident thank you for your time good evening everybody I am not specifically speaking to the presentation but to the slide that was also attached to it where it provided a whole lot of data about our schools usable acres number of classrooms enrollment capacity current enrollment and projected enrollment who gathered this data what factors are you using to predict this enrollment for the future do these numbers account for certain things like our migrant students who are not enrolled currently but will be returning next month I am asking all these questions because I seriously have issue with the validity of the data that is being presented to the board and to the public right now on this list Watsonville high school has 41 additional classrooms compared to PV high yet their capacity for students is listed as 300 students less than PV high Alianza is showing that it has a capacity of 746 students whereas in their charter that actually would be limited to 620 when speaking with the McQuitty staff they actually have 28 classrooms one of which has been condemned due to mold so they won't even count that that's really 27 if you look at the sites Minty white and Anseldo they show that they have an identical capacity for the number of students yet one of them has 27 classrooms and one of them have one site has 27 and one site has 31 where are these students going if not in a classroom so I just as was said in our presentation you need to have accurate data in order to make these difficult decisions this is not accurate data this math is not mapping I hope you're looking at that alright next three speakers Bill, Beatrice you're up look at a Boggs and Chris Webb in 1960's we saw a surge of immigration and over the next 10 years the number of students in our system increased by 50% that's because that first generation had a much higher birth rate that second and third generation is now showing up in the statistics that for the last six years we have been losing 2.5% per year in the number of births it will continue to go down now 46% of the births were attributed to Hispanics which was that immigration group they are switching from first to second and third generation at a much lower birth rate we can expect to see that here why because 85% of our population is Hispanic it's a real problem I would use a 4% decline for our district and that tells me we will have in the next five years we will be down below 10,000 students that's real so what to do what to do you heard a terrific presentation by these two ladies they're professionals they know what they're doing they have experience they've been there we have it listen to them but you've got certain conditions you're going to have to consider regional and political if you tried to close Aptos Junior or Aptos High Aptos would pull out of this district so you can't touch them what about Pajaro Middle Monterey County would reconsider what we're doing so there are tough decisions now you're going to have to close one high school at some point it can't be Aptos so it's either Watsonville or PV High Watsonville is old high maintenance it also has a large campus that if you sold the land for housing development you could arrange that you have to put in student housing and teacher housing thank you good evening board I'll start off with some quotes don't invest in things that eat that's the motto of the school services don't get emotional we heard that tonight we're acknowledging that we're only cogs in a system this is business another point to diminish the value of education austerity measures on the educational careers of our students is wrong we know that families with the means will be able to have the resources they'll have the resources to accommodate and enhance the learning needs of their child in their household 33% unduplicated pupil count students that we have in our district living in poverty they're not going to have that they have our schools we already had a community member speak to that our schools are safe places those are the homes that we create the communities we create outside of their home and if you're having a conversation right now to discuss potential layoffs of people that don't get upset that it's people because just look at them as this FTE they're just a data point I don't want to go into what Roddy already said because that was been like our conversation today which is the data you guys have been presented with is wrong you can look at the sacks report I looked at every single sacks report not sacks sark report and that's where you're going to get actual numbers so it is surprising that this district that has already spent over a million dollars as a first interim on consultants just in consultants that they're willing to invest in these other things but not the people they need for their students for the students that we are going to have as our leaders in the future I think one way that we can refine for efficiency and still preserve the utmost service to the students would be to modify our system principal positions so that they teach one class I feel like that would get them more in tune with what it is to be a teacher and make sure we're serving everyone to the highest degree I think largely we need to focus on how do we attract students that that should be the main focus here and I think we do that by enhancing our programming valuing the relationships including the relationships students have with teachers I've heard about some students who have left renaissance in light of some changes this year or have stopped coming other the other thing I think we can do is be responsive as a district and make people like know that when they come here that the powers that be will serve them I nearly brought my own kids here the reason I wound up not going that route or the reason I was even considering it was because of the program and because of the teachers and I wound up not doing it because my kid's birthday was the wrong month so I was going to be charged like a thousand a month to bring him the other thing I'm thinking about when we serve students I think about like measure L funding right at renaissance that's the survey on that it overwhelmingly came out they wanted program enhancements auto shop, latent resource there's a dark room that's not being used it could be a Spanish classroom so they could have an actual teacher instead of just the computer the other big thing safety concerns like we need to make sure we're dealing with that and the overwhelming thing in that survey was they wanted doors in the bathroom stalls simple things we can do to make sure people come if we don't do these things like the VA's been down look at the data for renaissance look at when people were attending we had a model continuation program re-implement that student progress monitoring system and watch how the culture changes and more people will come also if money is an issue we cannot afford to spend money fighting for hostile actions with this P&A business we should drop that case right now thank you do we have any other public speakers thank you I just want to take a moment and pause and thank all of those who spoke tonight those who are here tonight it has been an extremely long 10 months for this community for the school district and for you as community members and for this governing board so I do want to acknowledge all of you and thank you for being here tonight this governing board of directors has had five months five meetings as of tonight this month and happy leap year to everyone so with that said I'll bring it back to the governing board of director for discussions and this is not an action item tonight I want to reiterate so this is just a time for the report that we received the public community input and now from discussion from the governing board of directors so I'll bring it back to the board Trustee Dr. Holm would you like to lead us all thank you so I had a question about slide 18 I can't remember if that was Lynette or Danielle it was about the special education yes please this one so when we're talking about like with the state average identification being 13% we're talking about our average being that 17.93% correct and I'm hearing about over identification the possibility of it the possibility of it and what data do we use what criteria do we use for determining that I will admit I have a bias in this regard I have two children with ADHD one who was diagnosed and got services in school and then one who didn't get diagnosed until in adulthood and seeing the difference in their school experience and it's like are we at that 17.93% because we're better at identifying students who need services you know it's like how do we determine which and our services could the services be provided in the general education classroom before students are identified and have a service that's available to all students so I will tell you I spent 13 years as the director of special education before I was in the business office so I look at this as like you have to really look at it and sometimes we wait until students are identified to provide them services that maybe we could have provided and those numbers look different so it really is looking at it locally and saying what does this number mean our parents moving to the district because of the special education program so are we getting kids that move here with an IEP so it's a lot of different factors this is an example if you can't just look at this slide and say oh this tells me one thing it's like okay this causes me to ask some questions or the questions it causes me to ask because I know I know that all of us care but I just want us to be very cautious of is to not think it's like oh well we're over identifying and then we just need to be very cautious of making sure that our students who need services are getting the services that they need thank you and I think that Danielle when she started the conversation this is complex and so you can't take one slide or one data point itself and take it out of context that's one of the things that I always caution it's like how does all of this data look together and as a whole group and not take any one slide or one piece of a slide and say oh this is what I heard it's like these are all data points to consider and to look at from a local standpoint so that's a perfect example of it's like okay if you take it in its of itself does it tell the whole story these slides never tell the whole story the data never tells the whole story it leads you to ask questions thank you Tristita Surfa thank you and maybe these are probably questions too for our own staff so to the extent that I know Cam your interim but maybe to the extent that we could have some of these answers are you ready Murray okay so like right now in the I was actually a little surprised to see that we had added 80 FTEs in the past few years and some of those I know were like monitors for COVID they were COVID related it was through resignation and retirement and this year we're looking at at a reduction of 15 and we know we're going to have many more than that in terms of retirement so I want one of my questions is along the lines of Ms. DeSerpas this is a district that uses categorical funds to hire certificated and so I'm wondering you know like we have a grant that just came in to help us with our chronic absenteeism we're going to hire a certificated person to be part of that home visits yada yada yada are those some of the positions that we've added it's quite possible now in terms of where this data came from this was generated within the district correct I know that so I just want to be clear with that I got that from district staff this is just overall in general full-time employment means FTE it's not number of staff so I just want to be clear on that because that may look different you could have 50 employees but if they're all part time then that's 25 FTE so this may feel a little different but the way that we think about personnel is within full-time employment or FTE now remember the slide that somewhere later about the temporary funding and the 6% of your staff are funded with temporary funding so the district did exactly what was intended during the pandemic with those funds you added staffing so that's not necessarily a misstep because we know that the pandemic created severe instructional and support there's so many needs now and it doesn't mean that those needs are going away with that funding and that's the difficulty of all of this so I'll take a wild guess but a lot of those classified positions are probably paraprofessional staffing because that's where we see a large influx of staffing the other thing that we didn't dig into in the data is the district's use of contractors or vendors especially within your special education program which is another common thread now if you're using a contractor to fulfill a staffing need you're paying that through a different funding code that's for a contract but you might have that FTE housed in position control still so that could be a double count so I'm not exactly surprised that you added FTE from 1920 to 23-24 and that was most likely due to the increase in intense needs that have transpired over the past couple years yeah if I may two things to be considered a lot of these data points we got this presentation about two or three days ago it gives our office and our staff items to look at ourselves and many of the things that were brought up tonight are things that we want to look at one is the capacity I found out I called the company that provides us with that data on different sites and I said well how old is this data because I haven't been here that long and we wanted to find out well it was six years old the data was six years old so one of the first things that I'm going to have our facilities people do is verify the data we're going to go to each site we're going to walk through with the principles or whoever they want to assign to us and we will verify this data these were just very important centers this is a way to point out the questions we need to start asking ourselves and so the second question that we're going to be asking ourselves is why does it look like all of these classified positions haven't added when we know they have not been because Jenny has done a wonderful job especially at first interim where she has identified all of the one-time funds all the positions that have been funded through them and all of the programs we have plans for continuation and if they're going to be planned or paid for out of other funds we've identified those or we're going to be stopping that position the programs or whatever they may be so I have a feeling that we need to look into our position control and so we need to find out if there's positions in position and control that haven't been stopped properly or whatever so this has been a wonderful process for us and it may sound like we paid an expense we have the expertise but we don't have the time to figure these things out that these are the questions that need to be had so this process has helped us identify the areas that we need to look into more closely I'm going to ask Miss Im if you'd like to come up and add anything to that as our director of finance thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you and in the next come my name is Jenny Im and I'm the Director of fiscal services here one of the reasons we added FDE program. So we've added about 55 FTE just for yellow P. So we get special restricted program funding that's not part of our unrestricted dollars. Additionally, add a sum of our one-time funding such as SR and ELOG to address some of the learning loss that we've experienced. We also added general IAs and additional intervention teachers as well as social emotional counselors and mental health clinicians. So at first and term, we identified all of the staffing from the one time and we also identified where we're moving those into for the next few years. So we do have a plan for those FTE out of the one time. Thank you. Just to disturb you. Yeah, Jenny, stay where you are. I knew she was going to let you go. I was looking around thinking, okay, Murray and we've got an interim like who can answer these questions? It's Jenny. Thank you. Where's Clint? When do we need him? So one of the things, so I'm glad to know that 55 of the FTEs are in our after-school program, which is money that we will continue to get. Yes. Yeah, and we're doing a great job with that and it's super beneficial to the to our community, to parents and enriching for kids. Absolutely. Really, really good about that. Okay. What about, sorry, I lost my thought. Maybe come back to me in a minute. I was just going to ask you. Oh, I know what I was going to say. Consultants. Somebody said we have had a million dollars of consultants and I know that we've really tried to limit consultant fees over the years, the past few years. Have we had really a million dollars in consultants and are those like facilities things or what are we looking at? So consultant fees really encompass a lot of programmatic and support services that we offer to our students. So that can include, for example, out of our unrestricted, we have our referee and arbiter fees for our sports for all of our high school and middle school athletics. It's we've seen an expansion also because of all of the after school ELOP funding that we've received. Jen Bruno, our director of expanded learning has done an incredible job for a community of really reaching out to all the community partners she could. So we have an amazing after school program. So a lot of that is also through consultants. So our spectra, I'm sorry, is that so that money comes out of our ELOP monies? Okay, so that's part of consultants. And then also things like our spectra service contracts for the arts that's also coming out of our consultant fees. And we're calling that consultant fees, even though it's really a service. Okay. And then, sorry, my final comment is about community schools. And I know we've identified multiple schools, like how many like 33 or something, or something like 33 schools that are eligible. And our plan, I believe, as a district is to go after those grants for every single one of those schools. And it'll bring in about $34 million. Yes. And that's the hope. So we had multiple people on our district staff, Chrissy McLean, Andrea Wiley, Lisa Aguaria. So we submitted the application recently. So we're hoping to hear back by Mayor June about the status of that funding. And it would be a substantial amount upwards of, I believe, $35 million. $35 million. So will that help to close some of the budget gap that we're facing if we were to get that money? So each grant has different conditions if you can supplement or supplant existing programs. So some of the grant will cover brand new positions, such as community liaisons. But some services we would be able to move into possibly. Okay. I think that's it for now for my questions. Thanks. That was very helpful. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, trustee. Trustee Flores, do you have questions?  You could have. I wanted to say thank you for this presentation. I understand some of the frustration that we could have from some of our community members. However, I do feel this is an important discussion for us to have. And as a governing board, we have to have this in public. And it's a discussion that we've all been, you know, we all have been wanting to have for quite some time now. I was able to attend a couple declining enrollment sessions at the convention that I went to. And so a lot of this information, you know, I had already seen. But it's still it's important for us to get this and to see this and to remember this. One of the sessions that I listened to was one of a district in the LA area that dropped from about $20,000 down to $9,000. And so hearing, you know, what the process they went through. And he was very forthcoming about closing schools and how it's not always the right decision. So that was really, you know, good for me to hear. I also, what I took away from that one of my big takeaways was there's birth rates, not much we can do about that. There's people moving out of California, not much we can do about that. People leaving our district, that's something we can do. Those are numbers we can get back. And so as a district, that's where we could focus. Like, why are they leaving? What can we provide that they are seeking? So that's going to be, I think a huge, you know, job for us to look at as a district. And I'm sorry, I have a note here. Trustee Boulana-Skow had to leave. He had a class he had to teach. So he wanted me to let you guys know that he thanks you for coming and to let you know that he had to leave for that. And then also, I do want to also, you know, that the slide regarding our specific sites, I saw a slide similar to that when I got my, when I was in San Francisco. And I asked for that slide for our district. But to hear that the information is not correct is very disappointing. And to hear that, it's because it's old information that we couldn't, you know, we should know our facilities.  So I just feel like that, that we need to get that hopefully very quickly, you know, corrected and back to us. Because that's important information that we need to know going forward. And I'm just, thank you for allowing us to this time to start this conversation. Thank you, Trustee Flores. Vice President Soto. All right. I'd like to pose this question to our consultants here tonight. I actually agreed with tonight's speakers, all 60. You've had a valid point. I'm a pretty black and white answer kind of guy. Pretty straightforward. And I guess I'm just letting my hair down. So yeah, I mean, it's true.  I think his question is directed to the consultant specifically. Yeah. And then whoever's able to answer it. It seems Ms. M. has a response as well. So we'll go with the consultants and then ask Ms. M. to come up if you don't mind. So I don't know that I know the answer to that because we are not in schools currently. So I know that as soon as in schools, as soon as the pandemic, we can't be out of the pandemic. And we had kids that were used to not coming to school. We actually encouraged them not to come to school when they were sick. And so I do think that that has, and you can see that in the data charts across the state is where you had kids that were used to coming to school all the time, even if they had colds, if they had sniffles, we encouraged them not to. And so changing that is something that you have to consider.  Currently there are additional options that are being considered at a legislative level for more independent study options and stuff. So I don't know that we know in each community really is different about what's impacting their attendance rates. So high school kids have different reasons for not attending than kindergartners do. So I don't know that I know a good answer, unfortunately. All right. I think that kind of covered my question. But now I just want to put my perspective based on our community, what I think I see based on my years of living in this area. So I remember in the mid-70s, late-70s, going out to the strawberries with my parents. And if you wanted to work, there was work available, the canneries, everything in this area was agriculturally driven. In the last five years, I have never seen advertisement in our local fields for labor. So buscan piscadores. I've never seen that. There was never any question.  That's just a direct representation of the lack of labor in this area. And in all industries across the board, police, fire, even professional blue collar, white collar. What's affecting that? I don't know. But to me, the biggest thing that stands out is the advertisement for farm labor. I've never seen that since I was a kid, growing up since way back when. Now, another thing that I think I see is the homeschool aspect of it. You know, parents are kind of dissatisfied with what their kids are being taught in our system to where they're taking them out and they're teaching them at home. And that's a national trend. You can read about it in papers and different articles, you know, across the country. Me as a parent, my family, my wife and I, we made a conscious decision to pull our kids out of Pajaro Valley and enroll them in private school, from elementary to high school. And multiple members of our family did the same thing, because they felt that what our kids and their kids needed wasn't quite what was being provided here, that we felt that Notre Dame, St. Francis, Santa Clara, Loyola Mara Mount, St. Mary's, you know, I'm just arbitrarily putting those names out because we have family members that are there now and have been through those schools. That the public system hasn't been able to provide what we think our kids needed. And I think that goes over to other families as well to think the same way. Now that's affecting, you know, the student population in the public sector. You know, inflation is another thing, cost of living, salaries.  You know, somebody's asking for something.  Whatever you're doing right now, you're paying a lot more. So, you know, in that aspect, you need to look at who's causing that and what's causing that and what are you going to do to make a change to slow that down and stop it. Once that's under control, then people can probably afford to live here and function normally and bring back the population that we need to support the school system. Bill, this is one time you and I are going to agree is your perspective on the student population for power over reducing, I mean, I don't think it's as drastic as you pointed out, but it's valid because it will, because this is a farm community and it goes back to what I was saying about the labor shortage. You know, we're educating our kids out of the area, which is a good thing. You know, they need to go to college. They should learn. My dad did the same thing for me. He told me, you know, he took me to the fields and he said, I don't want you here.  And we're trying to do the same thing for our kids, but at the same time, we're taking them out of the system that supports this area. And so that's just my two cents on what I think I see here. I mean, hopefully we can get things under control and like Trustee Flores said, is make the district more popular as to what can we provide to them that kids want to come here? You know, what is Clovis School District doing that they're making them so popular? What is Bellarmine High School doing that makes them so popular? You know, all the schools where people want to go because they feel that they're getting that quality education, which is why we went to St. Francis, which is why we went to Notre Dame. They offered something that we liked and we need to do that here with Paw Patrol Valley as well. So thanks. Thank you, Vice President Soto. Any other comments from the board? Trustee Dusserpa. Jenny, this is for you. And I don't think you were with us when this maybe was happening, but we to recapture some of our lost ADA, we used to have something called Saturday School. Is that still operating? And we used to then give incentives to to to the school site if they could get kids to come on Saturday. Yes, we are still operating Saturday schools and Dr. Yvonne Alcarez has actually been expanding Saturday School offerings. He recently received a grant actually to expand that out and then also to start looking and doing a little bit more research into loss of attendance as well. So maybe if you make a budget presentation, maybe in the next time you could talk about anticipated revenue from there, maybe some projections. Yes, definitely. Okay, because in the past we've had very good revenue and it was a really good way to recapture some lost ADA. But then I haven't heard about it in a couple of years, so I wasn't sure if we were still doing it. Trustee Dusserpa, I think you might have another question, but I think our CBO might want to add to what the Chair said if you don't mind. Hi, Kim. Just really quickly, I know we were, it was really late last night when the LCAP presentation happened, but if you refer to one of Lisa's slides, it talks about the pre-pandemic ratio between ADA and enrollment and it was like I forget 94, 95 percent or something and then it dropped down during COVID because as was mentioned earlier, kids didn't go to school, but we are creeping up back up to it. So a lot of that is due to Saturday School and the diligence that's happening at the sites getting kids to want to come back to school. Oh, okay, that's great. Good news. We will have Ivan follow up with Marvista. That's a great idea, Lisa. No, it should be at every school site and in the past we've given incentives to the schools for operating a program, so it's really great. So we also have something coming up that we're, this county and all counties in California are being required to build affordable and market rate housing and in the unincorporated areas and in Watson, at least in the unincorporated areas. I know it well that we have to put in more than 4,500 units of housing, much of it for families. So I'm hopeful. I don't know. Sometimes I've seen school services do projections on those numbers and potentially attracting families to our area that then would have babies or use schools. The last thing I just want to say is that people like housing is super, super, super unaffordable. So hopefully by putting in more affordable housing more people will be able to live in our area and join our workforce. Definitely. And I mentioned this a little bit at first syndrome. When we do our enrollment projections, it's based on past history. So what COVID really did and especially the historic floods at our region experience is it really took us out of the norm. So it made it very, very difficult to do more after projections going into our multi-year. So we do have information that we get from our demographer that we are incorporating things like birth rates. The affordable housing, I think it's really, really promising. I wasn't here at the time, but I know PV about maybe five years ago was expecting an enrollment jump because of some affordable housing that was coming in. But the interesting thing is what happened was it wasn't new families moving into the area, it was existing families being able to spread out a little bit more. So the enrollment jump that was projected at that time didn't materialize. So things like that, I think it's very, very promising, but it can be a touch and go. What we see in Santa Cruz city limits actually is they were projecting declining enrollment and their housing that they've been expanding has actually kind of stabilized their enrollment. So we will definitely keep the board and the community updated as those numbers start coming in. That's great. The other thing I'll mention, oh I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Another one wants to interrupt. Just real quick. Oh yeah. The discussion about the bond in a few weeks will include discussion about workforce housing for our employees. So we're hoping to build workforce housing I think in the, oh I can't remember. I think it was 75 units for teachers, but you know I'd like to see that actually go up if we could. Okay and I think that's it for me. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? No I just want to, as thinking about what I said, I want to just make sure I show my appreciation to M&O that wasn't a dig at them at that. I just, we have an amazing M&O department and I know we are capable of getting those numbers correct very quickly because we have the staff to do that. We don't need to go outside the staff. Trustee D'Sirpa. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation. I think what I'd like to say is that my views differ a little bit from Oscars in that I feel like so much progress, so much progress has been achieved in the Pajaro Valley Unified School District over the past six or seven years. We have so much to offer. We have unbelievable after-school programs that are so enriching. We have music, art, counseling. We have the biggest sports programs in the entire county right here where we have coaches and assistant coaches. We have something for all kids and it's free of charge. So to all the parents that are out there who might be viewing this, I feel really proud of our district, the teachers, our staff. They're unbelievable and so I think that this district has a lot to offer our community. Thank you. Vice President Soto. Thank you Trustee D'Sirpa. I appreciate your point of view Kim and my comments were intended in any way in knocking down the district. You're right, we do have some incredible people here that do some incredible things, especially with the number of students that we have with our student population and the community as a whole. We're pretty diverse if you think about it from north to south. So if you're out there in TV land, don't misconstrue my comments as to being one-sided. Like I said, I'm a black and white kind of guy and I see both sides of the coin. I do support Trustee D'Sirpa's comments in regards to the district as a whole that we're doing some incredible stuff but we're capable of so much more. Thank you Vice President Soto. Trustee Flores. Just to kind of tag on to that, I think what I was hearing. She's literally in the middle. Well what I was hearing from Trustee Soto is kind of what I had also said is I don't think we're knocking down our district. I just think like you said we have these amazing services that we're offering for free. Why are parents willing to pay $10,000 a year to send them to private? That's what we need to figure out and so there's something there. It might not be something that we want to you know know but it's there and we have to think about that so. Thank you Trustee Flores. Trustee Dr. Holm do you have anything you'd like to add? Sure it's like a set of good and soon knives but wait there's more. I'll just add you know it's I've had kids in the district since 2003 you know I've got two years and four more months and it's like you know I'm I'm proud to have kids in this district and I we do have stuff to work on right you know it's and as we go through these challenging times it's like all right there's a do we have an opportunity you know it's you know is there an opportunity to kind of refine is there an opportunity to strengthen our programs to prioritize in a way that strengthens you know how we deliver our services for our personnel for our students so that we come through it stronger and if you look up the parable of the farmer and the horse and maybe look it up google it maybe I'll leave you with that. Thank you Trustee Dr. Holm anyone else all right and then there was one um so again I I just want to start with and my comments reiterating what I've said it has been an extremely long 10 months for this community this school district the staff the faculty our classified employees our administrators the governing board of directors um noting right just um today on leap year we've whirlwind five meetings in one month um so and it's a promising new day right um initially I was against having this meeting today on leap year um because we do we do have so many interim positions and it's not anything against our wonderful interims that are here I just want to note that um I just more of a person that in the long-term planning and long-term thinking I believe that falls under long-term administration but in hindsight I can recognize myself um I'm not going to go as far as to say an air of my ways but just to reflect and see that this was good tonight as tired as I am and it has been an extremely emotionally exhausting week for myself personally my family um I am appreciative of it um and and that everyone what staff has done to help the consultants to prepare this and put this forward to those of you who've come tonight to listen and to endure um but nonetheless this is going into this district's leadership which is the governing board of directors it's long-term planning with the district's long-term administration and they're going to be difficult conversations tough conversations they're going to be conversations to have I'm appreciative that now again in hindsight that we did start this conversation tonight so it gives us as a body and you as a community food for thought to think on and for us to mull over as we move in to the new long-term leadership of the district's administration um lots of good things were said um I could comment on I you know there are I believe a whole vast variety of reasons of why families and ultimately their children our students are leaving our district leaving the community leave the district whether they go to private or to charter um whether they leave the area whether they leave the meaning just the region or if they leave the state and um I I want a caution that we shouldn't have a faulty and there's a variety of reasons that could happen whether they're personal philosophical religious and I don't think that those members of our community deserve to be for for light of a better word wish I wasn't so tired I could think of a better one but so to speak bagged on I mean that that it's a shame that we lose them right it really is and and you all have said wonderful things here tonight what are the things that we could do better to hopefully re-attract that and bring that back um I am again I I believe it was like in around the slides 55 56 57 um that talked about the governing board's responsibilities and I again that's why I'm going to echo I'm appreciative we have this conversation tonight and we've started that so it gives us as a body of leadership um direction to start to think and mull over as we move in to the district's new permanent leadership administration to have those conversations and to figure out because there are we are already seen it with one school district in this county there are some very hard decisions that are going to be coming forward there's some that are not going to be received well and you know at the end of the day I hope that the community is entrusting those that they have elected the seven of us to be the trustees to entrust that we have the very best interest at heart I do not deny that about any one of the seven of us that sit up here I think every single one of us that sit up here have the very best interest at heart for our own individual trustee areas but beyond that we know when we're up here making decisions we're making it for this district as a whole in a community and I really hope that you all in the community recognize that as we move forward um I don't think I have much left to say I just want to bring it back to the the governing board are there any last comments reflections thoughts anything anyone wants to add I want to honor that I'll just say that as somebody who's had to go through this process in 2010 2011 2012 we started kind of crawling out of a horrible budget time but I had to make cuts and it's just a very uncomfortable feeling and we'll we'll have a new superintendent hopefully soon and she'll help guide this process and we'll start out by making cuts in areas that will hurt the least and then we'll go from there we'll see how deep we'll have to go but my hope is we'll get the wonderful grant opportunity of the community schools and um that'll ease some of it some of the hurt thank you everybody for being here tonight anyone else want to close with a thought trustee thank you trustee to serve the trustee floris I want to thank also uh trustee to serve us specifically because this client enrollment not a fun discussion to have but I do want to thank you for bringing up you know community schools and um the affordable housing that's coming in to boss the gardens you know is going to open up soon that's going to bring us families and so I do like that you are trying to stay optimistic with it and you know hoping that it's you know not going to impact as much so I thank you for that bringing in thank you trustee floris trustee doctor home would you like to close with any closing thoughts or thank yous thank you trustee by sota with that I thank you all again with a grateful heart that you were here tonight and welcoming your input I would now adjourn this meeting for the special board meeting for Wednesday excuse me Thursday except February my gosh let me get my year February 29th leap year at 8 27 thank you