For today I thought let's look at kind of the pre-history of old Chinese. So what was old Chinese like, you know, from the perspective of comparative data? So that's what we'll be looking at and that's why I've called it before old Chinese, the lecture. So to start with there are ambiguities in old Chinese that kind of cannot be easily resolved because of subsequent sound change and this creates slightly a methodological question of like when do we draw a line between old Chinese and something that comes before old Chinese? And methodologically that you would say well if we use Chinese internal data then it's old Chinese and if we use comparative data then it's something before old Chinese. But it has to be recognized that that can be a little artificial, right? Like maybe there was some merger kind of that can only be recovered from comparative data but that for let's say structural reasons it would make more sense to imagine that that distinction that was later collapsed in the history of Chinese was there at the same synchronic stage as old Chinese. I hope it's clear what I'm saying but in any case this presentation is about the contribution of comparative data. So I include some sound changes here that back strength cigar treat as within the history of old Chinese. And then this I just want to make the point that it just so happens that all of the changes that I found from what I'm calling transient land same thing as sign or to them to old Chinese are mergers and they're mergers that don't interact with each other. Which is to say it's not easy to figure out their relative chronology because there's not a feeding bleeding relationship between them. Now I still have to organize them in some way so I sort of have my intuition about you know which ones seem like they happened earlier and which ones seem like they happened later. So which I mean I don't know that mostly has to do with how general the changes. So I sort of treat kind of finicky changes as later and more general changes as earlier but I just want to kind of point out that the relative chronology is hard to figure out and I haven't done it. So now into the details something we mentioned I think yesterday was the merger of velars and dentals after a very difficult to distinguish in in old Chinese. But with comparative data it's I don't know there's there's good reason to see that there's a merger going on here. So on this slide I have I have examples that end with like year and firewood and long and kindness. So just to look at one you know to kind of draw your attention to it let's look at wood. So middle Chinese is sin and actually Baxter and cigar reconstruct sin but I wonder whether it was sing because Tibetan has shing as the word for wood but there are also cases where the Tibetan cognates suggest a dental final in particular these two. So the comparison of love or pity in Chinese with kindness in Tibetan and then pungent or painful with liver that may seem like a like a stretch semantically but there's there it's very common for words for liver to mean like bitter things like that around the world. So in these cases the Tibetan points to a dental final. Okay the next one is a labial neutralization. Old Chinese it's very difficult to distinguish among up up and up on the one hand and um um and um on the other hand and that's because there was very early on a sound change where um where rounded vowels sort of de-rounded in um before labial finals. If we look at comparative evidence we can see some reason to tease this part. So noop in Chinese means enter and noop in Tibetan means sink or set of the of the sun. So that looks like it's one that can be reconstructed as up whereas uh to stand or something like to stamp in in in Tibetan we have a we have an ah in Tibetan and and Tibetan doesn't distinguish shua and ah it seems like they had a kind of across the board merger between the two. So we can propose that the the Chinese here had a shua. Yeah so there you go. Now uh same kind of contrast with u so we have um really clear evidence that three should have an u vowel from a comparative perspective. And then in this uh in this example hold in the mouth uh there's there's uh the Tibetan has an ah so probably all Chinese had a shua vowel. It's also hard to distinguish u and shua before a cutes but here we we're not so we forget about oh right this doesn't have to do with labials it has to do with the cutes uh so it kind of pair wise if you like uh un is hard to tell from un or from ur and a from ui. Okay so now I just want to point to evidence of the contrast from a comparative perspective. So we have move which back from cigar reconstruct with a shua vowel uh in all Chinese compared to uh this word gul which means to move in Chinese so that suggests an u and similarly in the word for eyebrow the the Burmese uh suggest an u and and you know I will get into this in the in the talk about Burmese but this way you see in written Burmese is quite late and in old Burmese uh all the all the ways are us but um I just happened not to have found the word body hair attested in old Burmese probably because of my failings as a old Burmese philologist um but in any case there you go which is to say the Burmese does support uh an u. Now on to our next case of ambiguity which is uh again because of mergers in the history of old Chinese it can be very hard to tell where there's a medial r so so this is just a notational thing but I'm going to use k for vealers uvealers labial vealers and labial uvealers p for labials and c for any consonant uh in type a syllables it's very hard to tell whether old Chinese had an r in in this circumstance which is basically before oval and in type b syllables there's a lot of circumstances in which it's hard to tell whether old Chinese had a medial r so now I'll look at comparative data and say like well it seems like maybe there was an r in this case and maybe there wasn't an r in this case okay so some comparisons that suggest no medial r in old Chinese uh there's this word geek which can geek which can reconstruct to guk or gruk which is the highest point on a roof compared to the Tibetan word for sky which has no r and similarly this this word who which means behind uh if we compared to Tibetan hok which means under and maybe it didn't have an r and uh might as well just talk with you the the last two the word for uncle ku in Tibetan doesn't have an r so probably maybe it was gu in old Chinese and not gru and b like a b the buzzes yeah is uh bungwa in uh Tibetan and maybe it was pong rather than prong in old Chinese comparisons but there are other comparisons that uh suggest that old Chinese does have the r so sticking with insects we've got gukmo in in Tibetan so probably this uh Chinese was gukro you know gukro sorry I have trouble pronouncing you dealers and in the case of feather we have gukro which probably comes from where we have sorry that was me pronouncing it in a kind of modern Tibetan way so sgro in old Tibetan uh would be from something like sgurah we'll get to that later which is the Tibetan uh changes uh auto all after levy dealers so maybe there was an r in in in the chinese word for feather as well you get the idea which is that we can uh distinguish maybe uh where to reconstruct an r partly based on comparative data there's a couple different ways I could sort of comment the question just to say that here the point is that we can't tell in old chinese whether or not the r was there that's what the brackets mean right so on this slide I'm saying we have no idea whether chinese had an r or not but if we look at comparative data we think probably it didn't and in this case we have no idea whether chinese had an r or not but when we look at comparative data we think it probably did but what I will say is that uh old chinese has reconstructed by baxter and cigar has a lot of medial r's and that's a consequence of the r hypothesis which we heard about in the discussion of the six-file theory which is that all uh division two syllables had some medial r so um maybe that should bother you maybe it shouldn't in terms of you know this is often the difficulty with kind of reconstructing a vocabulary is like how many you know it let's say in the 90s there was a feeling that uh chinese had too many j's in it so we or uh you know medial ya so the reconstructions were altered to get rid of all the medial yas but you know what point is it too many is a matter of taste basically right so um what you can say is that if uh the r hypothesis leads you to reconstruct a medial r in old chinese that can be confirmed in tibetan and vermice no problem right but if it's if you can stand up reconstructing based on the r hypothesis a medial r in old chinese that is not confirmed in the tibetan and vermice you need to somehow explain it and it might be an innovation in tibetan and vermice or uh which would say a loss of medial r in some circumstance or it means that an r has appeared in chinese now if the r's appeared in chinese then one reason it may have appeared is because of morphology and baxter and sagar for a long time have had the idea of an infix r which they use in those circumstances um i feel very skeptical about it um so i i think it would be better to to have another way to get rid of these r's old chinese okay so first we're going to look at this uh proposal of um and coblins which i have written as capital t lowercase r comes from lowercase r capital t which looks like some kind of metathesis but i don't think we have to understand it that way instead we can just understand it as that one of the sources of division two syllables and uh and um retroflex initials is not the medial r but is a pre-initial r so there are these things in chinese which we call demediated clusters i always have trouble saying that word but there's there's various kinds of um two character words that seem like they're somehow derived from a single morpheme and in many cases it's reduplication so there are you know you can say bang bang in chinese or something like that uh but we're looking at at that subset of these pairs where the second one starts with in middle chinese and l i think you can think of it this way that if you're going to reduplicate something that has a medial r in it one way to do that is to sort of break the cluster up so if you have a word like krang and you want to sort of expressively reduplicated you could say kangrang yeah whereas if you had a syllable like bang you would just say bang bang yeah and then we notice that uh we have pairs where you have an initial velar in the first syllable and then an l in the second one like this kang long and we also have ones uh where there's a labial in the first one uh and uh and an l in middle chinese in the second one like mung mung um but there there are no examples where uh one starts with a dental noticing this pattern uh zev handle says it looks like maybe uh this is evidence that there were no clusters like tra in old chinese so instead those cases which is actually kind of uh all of the retroflex initials uh where we have uh so far been reconstructing a t followed by an r maybe we should be reconstructing an r followed by a t and if we look at tibetan evidence we see some uh reason for accepting this conjecture in my old chinese reconstructions on this slide the middle reconstruction is the actual back through cigar reconstruction with the medial r and then the one on on the right so one step further back in time if you like is how the reconstruction would look if we accepted coven's suggestion so just to talk through a couple of them we have something like drang meaning strike so they would take that back to but if we uh believe that there were no trs in old chinese and instead they should be rt's then we would instead get rtong or maybe rtong i don't know but anyhow uh the tibetan rtong compares very nicely right yeah let's look at the the next one so dust they're in in middle chinese drun in old chinese but maybe not maybe it's rtun in in old chinese um and that compares quite nicely with tibetan the dual which means dust you see that this is our our kind of first pass at removing those old chinese medial rs where we don't want them um and if we left them we would probably have to explain them as some kind of uh morphological innovation but coven's conjecture doesn't get rid of everything we want to get rid of many examples of medial r in old chinese have no r in them in the corresponding tibetan or bermes word and let's look at these three examples specifically so laos in uh chinese is srik and it's shik in tibetan with no r yeah kill in old chinese is srat and the root is sat in tibetan and sat in bermes so no r and three is um srum in old chinese but it's gusum in um or gusum maybe in old tibetan and sum in bermes and it's particularly in these cases uh and in particular in kill and three that baxter and cigar propose this medial r in fix and they say like oh well three you know is like a it's like a it's like three things is a few things it's maybe some kind of repetition or uh something and then and then they make a similar argument or a kill it i i haven't been able to follow it it feels a little bit kind of deus ex machine to me but luckily we have a way to solve this problem as well which is a conjecture of uh pulley blanks and i want to be clear here that that um pulley blank is not proposing that it's a pre-initial r that caused this it's some kind of pre-initial so that's why i write it with a capital r whereas here in in in koblin's conjecture the proposal really is that you know uh that old chinese had no medial rs after dentals so those should be rs before the dental whereas in in pulley blanks uh conjecture we can instead say that some of the uh division two syllables come from some kind of pre-initial and we would have to think more about you know well which pre-initials do we need to reconstruct a different pre-initial than baxter and cigar reconstruct so i just sort of mechanically want to index it with this capital r which can mean you know a pre-initial source of division two whatever it may be and we see that that uh this attack is oftentimes let's say buttressed by evidence from tibetan uh where the tibetan does not necessarily have a pre-initial r but it does have some kind of pre-initial so looking at a few examples hollow uh is croc in old chinese so maybe you know we we can think the r actually comes from some kind of pre-initial and tibetan has a pre-initial s so skok yeah silver which frankly probably isn't cognate it's probably some kind of vandervoort you know is is i can't say in all chinese so maybe that's a pre-initial that r and in tibetan there is a pre-initial d so and then i'll just dump jump down to kill and three where you see that um tibetan in all tense forms except the imperative has a pre-initial so in the present it's a pre-initial g so maybe that's some kind of evidence of a cognate to whatever caused division two in all chinese and similarly for the word three tibetan has this g pre-initial so maybe it wasn't surum in all chinese but something sum you know maybe g sum maybe r sum can't be sure okay so that's polybank blanks conjecture and clearly you know more work needs to be done in this area but i think it's a promising conjecture in my book there were i think two counter examples but now one of them has been solved which i will get to in just a moment but there's only one real counter example then which is this word for sand compared to earth where tibetan you know we want we want to have some kind of pre-initial if if polyblank's proposal is correct but it it doesn't in this case so maybe the words just aren't cognate or maybe it's an innovation in tibetan who knows but i just want to draw your attention to that counter evidence to the proposal there is some you know breaking news since since my book came out that i think pushes very much in the direction of polyblank's conjecture which is comparisons between giao rong and olchonese in an article by giam zhuk lai yun fun i think and gong shun so let's look at the word for ice so the giao rong languages you know clearly have something like rpam whereas backstroke cigar would have reconstructed this prang in this paper the author has reconstructed rpam let me just reassure you that reconstructing a final m instead of a final nga here is okay even in backstroke cigar system now moving on to the next one um the giao rong languages i think jopuk is the most helpful here have a rm initial in their word for body hair compares very nicely to bermes muy where there's no medial r right so um um so backstroke cigar reconstruct for eyebrow but these authors suggest reconstructing it so basically it's very solid comparative evidence that polyblank's conjecture is on to something which is that uh pre-initial in this case pre-initial r which is sort of the easiest in a way in explaining division two is one of the origins of division two so some of these medial rs should instead be pre-initial rs um it's not a point that uh that the authors in this particular paper draw attention to so yeah so i can't i can't really say anything more about it i think the the way i feel most comfortable phrasing polyblank's conjecture is some pre-initial has caused division two retroflex initials and chongyu division three in some cases you know that we're saying that let's say i think it was yachun toff who came up with the r hypothesis and the r hypothesis very mechanically says in those three circumstances reconstruct a medial r so so polyblank saying that's that's treating those three circumstances as if they only have one origin whereas in fact we're trying to say they have uh at least two origins one medial r and one some kind of pre-initial i think that suggests that um we're only talking about medial r so we're we're replacing the analysis the proposal to reconstruct medial r in all chinese in some cases with an alternative proposal which is to to reconstruct a pre-initial which is to say you're right that uh we should really look at uh this word for ice more closely because uh baxter and cigar are not reconstructing a medial r they're reconstructing an initial r in the same paper they point out cases uh two of them where um the giao rong evidence sort of conflicts with polyblanks conjecture so in the first case uh to fry or roast there's no evidence for for an r of any kind in in in chinese but giao rong has a pre-initial r now i i just want to point out that in this case the giao rong evidence uh this is not mentioned in the paper uh is supported by tibetan cognate who from a sort of sino-tibetan perspective the edamon for roast did have a pre-initial r in in proto-sino-tibetan and then we need to figure out why evidence for it is not there in chinese maybe there's some very specific uh sound change in chinese having to do with i don't know type a vealer initial syllables or something like that you know it needs more thought and it is a chinese problem that's the point that i want to make whereas when we look at the word for name uh giao rong has a pre-initial r and there's no evidence for an r in chinese but if we look at tibetan there's there's also no r in tibetan so maybe this we don't need to worry about maybe this we don't we can just say is kind of well we'll worry about that let let the let the giao rong insists worry about that one uh it's not maybe relevant to uh the history of chinese whereas the first one because it's confirmed by tibetan clearly is a real sign of tibetan phenomena that then needs to be handled in terms of the history of chinese just to sum up in some phonotactic environments it's very unclear whether or not two reconstruct r in old chinese for that we can maybe supplement by a peak at uh comparative data in some cases chinese seems to have a medial r where we don't want one but we can get rid of those in two ways one is koblin's conjecture which is basically a phonotactic analysis of old chinese where we say that there were no medial rs after dentals they were only pre-initial r before dentals which is how it works in in tibetan instantly yeah so so maybe it makes a certain amount of sense and then polyblanks conjecture which is that some of these apparent medial rs in fact come from pre-initials not just pre-initial r before dentals but maybe pre-initial r in other circumstances and maybe pre-initials other than r you know you can look at a giao rong grammar to see kind of what they are but i would say um for our purposes the ka has something to do with the verbal system and the ta has something to do with the nominal system cautiously ever so cautiously ignore these giao rong prefixes for for a while but uh potentially they actually hold you know the keys to the kingdom the initial correspondences across signative and languages are a total mess so it's really like um you know generally we can work out the finals but the initials are a mess and um some people who are who aren't neo-grammarians say well you know this is just what happens languages change in crazy ways that that are not governed by rules whereas those of us who are neo-grammarians would say it's a sign that there used to be a lot of morphology at the beginning of words and languages like the giao rong languages show you a lot of morphology at the beginning of words so if we look really at a case by case basis we might be able to come up with morphological explanations for the irregular onset patterns um that are reconstructible to prophesior which is to say uh in short I think you know the giao rong languages can can kind of serve the role that Sanskrit served in Indo-European of um you know a language with quite transparent morphology that's quite systematic that they can serve as a sort of um template or model for how the prologue language you know might have been and um you know inevitably uh the discipline should move beyond that uh in the way that Indo-European you know went through a kind of 50-year phase of uh treat Latin and Greek as if they're just sort of funny Sanskrit and then eventually move beyond that and realize that that Sanskrit is not a perfect replica of the Indo-European morphologically speaking but I think in in um Sino-Tibetan it would do us very well to kind of go through that phase and pretend that all Sino-Tibetan languages are secretly giao rong and once then we've understood the morphology of Sino-Tibetan better we can discover those ways in which all Sino-Tibetan languages are different than giao rong or to put it differently those ways that giao rong itself innovated uh giao rong languages have a distinction between an alienable between alienable nouns and inalienable nouns and inalienable nouns have to have a possession prefix so in citation form we use the third person singular possessive prefix like so uh so which is to say I think these words for name actually mean his name but you cannot use the lexim without some kind of possession prefix but there would be a different word for my name or your name or something it would be overplaying our hands to kind of say wherever giao rong has one of these tuz or tuz we're going to throw it right back into proto sido tibetan right that would clearly be unjustified but it is probably worth keeping them and similar kinds of stuff in other languages in mind when we have weird correspondences so I'll just mention one that will come up I think in a forthcoming article of lion funds which is door for elbow where old Chinese seems to have the crew and old Tibetan has grew so elbow is one of the words unsurprisingly that is regarded as an inalienable possession in giao rong languages so you could say proto sino-tibetan had a system of inalienable possession prefixes the his elbow word was something like tukru and then in uh chinese they they lost the system but they kept the the word his elbow as the word elbow which is perfectly understandable that's an analogy right an analogical extension whereas in tibetan they sort of turned the bound morpheme into a free morpheme when the system of inalienable prefixes went defunct everything I've discussed until now are places where we think probably old chinese as actually spoken had one thing or another thing you know so either had the oval or the oval either had an r or didn't have an r but it's very hard to tell because of sound changes that happened later that that merged those origins so we are sort of looking to comparative data just to guide us in the interpretation of the chinese data but the the changes that we're about to look at can more easily be thought of as mergers on the way from sino-tibetan to old chinese so the first one is old chinese k has two correspondences let's put it that way has two correspondences with tibetan bermes so in the first one all three languages have a k and in the second one uh tibetan sometimes has this kind of velar final velar fricte final sometimes has nothing uh and bermes always has nothing so in my book I reconstruct that as k followed by a schwa I make a phonetic argument for that the reviews have been quite skeptical for reasons that I think are foreseeable which is you know this is kind of the only place that we reconstruct I don't know what to say a certain kind of disyllabic word so we have a schwa after k but we don't have a schwa after n or p or whatnot and fair enough it's a very mechanical reconstruction on my part but you know the correspondence is real so here are examples of k so you have night k in all three languages one k in all three languages uh torch or flame k in all three languages poison and poison has to be one of the clearest sino-tibetan cognates there is it's it's really dok in all three languages yeah pretty straightforward but here are examples where uh chinese has a k and the other languages don't so we have something like to pass arrow actually and the semantics is small semantic shift here where tibetan and bermes have arrow whereas chinese has hit with a bow and arrow um let's look at 100 that's a nice one you really expect the word for 100 to probably be cognate and it goes back to um prak in in chinese but uh something like bria in tibetan and bria in bermes so uh so where did this k go in in the other two languages have to somehow reconstruct a different correspondence so that's one merger you know maybe I don't have a good solution for it but it's a real merger uh now another merger which is kind of uh kind of the friend the kind of sister to the one we've just looked at which is a glottal stop final in chinese can either correspond to velars in the other two languages or to nothing in the other two languages and to index this correspondence and this I think is an idea of of cigars I reconstruct a q final would make sense right we have to have we've already reconstructed loads of velars sorry u velar initials why not use a u velar final and a u velar final changing into a glottal stop and a velar in different languages is perfectly normal uh and uh uh we just leave a glottal stop because you know the two languages lose glottal stop anyhow I think this is a less problematic uh proposal and in favor of it um cigar points out that there's an austronesian word of punuk uh brain and now you know he thinks austronesian is related to to chinese let's not worry about that now but I do think that punuk looks an awful lot like the word for brain in uh chinese and bermes so it's nuke in um in bermes and it's nu in chinese so it's punuk in austronesian so I think that's yeah that helps us say well maybe there is a u velar final in this word now we can extend it to the correspondence in general I won't go through all these but let's look at friend yeah so we have something like um yeah I I want to look at friend because I think it shows you that we're starting to achieve something akin to progress because if you look at the middle chinese for example you you look at you in chinese and grokks in tibetan they don't look anything alike you would never compare them but um we can get back to things that look quite similar using proposals that we already had to make for other reasons um yeah so I think that's a sign that oh look we're making progress I think I mean one of the struggles with any language family where uh where where we're at a fairly early stage of research is that you have you know um the let's call them the conservatives who just want to talk about again and again the really clear cognates like you know oh look tibetan has the word lock for hand the bermes has the word lock for hand yeah fine they're cognate but it doesn't help you go anywhere right uh and then you have other people who who are happy to make really wild comparisons that uh the phonology doesn't work the semantics doesn't work and it it's about finding that productive space between the two where you can make kind of bold conjectures and then you can pin them down with um with uh rigorous historical phonology and I think we're starting to see that you know we're getting in that direction with this example of friend so now moving on here are examples that I reconstruct with a glale stop so these ones are pretty straightforward you know let's look at five yeah so you have nga in all three languages there's a glale stop in chinese it's not there in tibetan and bermes so we can reconstruct the glale stop why not okay there are some problematic examples uh so let's look at them and actually i'll start with uh skin because it's the easiest the tibetan correspond the cognate would make you expect a glale stop final in chinese and it's not there so that's a problem you know I don't know how to deal with it if we look at uh you we have a velar nasal final in bermes and a glale stop in chinese so this is an interesting uh correspondence right because it's uh it's the kind of let's say it's the kind of word we expect irregularities in terms of very frequent very old word so I think it's promising for example for figuring out lost morphology and then last we look at tiger which I think is is uh worrisome probably a vondervoort right like I I don't think it goes without saying that there were tigers in the sign of tibetan homeland chris beckwith points out that the I would put it this way that the tibetan and the japanese are unlikely to be coincidences I mean you might not agree tora and stock are pretty different but you know they both have a t and having some kind of you know it makes perfect sense the final you don't need to worry about because japanese didn't didn't permit the cvc structure very easily and uh he says that's uh beckwith says look if if if tibetan and japanese have similar looking words like in the numbers for instance basically the only uh proposal that can be valid is that uh chinese was an intermediary you know either chinese was the donor language to both or it's a sign of tibetan cognate that then ended up in in japanese as a loan but the reconstruction that baxter and cigar have for tiger does not you know look anything like uh the the tibetan or japanese word um but there are t initials elsewhere in the shesham series so for details you can you can look at my book to basically say tiger is a mess and and is an interesting problem that i think more work needs to be done on but actually it's a um a fine example just in terms of sound laws if you wanted to reconstruct a q final right because you have a velar final in tibetan and a glow stop in chinese okay so we're moving now from the from the velar final questions to uh to resonance so it looks like chinese final yaw has two sources uh one we can reconstruct yaw so bermes also has a final yaw and it's lost in tibetan you have um yeah so slanting and be descended excellent and overdue slanting being inclined you see i'm i'm favoring the bermes cognates because it also preserves the final y so here cases you know look bermes has y chinese has y so we reconstruct y but there's also a correspondence uh of chinese y to tibetan l and generally speaking bermes has no final uh in these cases but it it keeps the final in question as a yaw after the vowel ooh that's a kind of bermes problem don't worry about it but we have to reconstruct something in in sign of tibetan and there's a merger going to all chinese so why not l because we need it for tibetan yeah so uh let's look at uh some examples so chinese uh to carry gay and uh tibetan let me load or or be loaded something like uh gal river in chinese guy and cross a river or gal in in tibetan and then maybe skip to the end of the slide sing or song in chinese cai and dance in bermes so that's just to prove that bermes loses the the l so let's reconstruct this corresponds l and then we have a a tricky one where again uh people aren't very happy with my solution i'm not very happy with my solution but it is another um correspondence so it has to be dealt with which is all chinese has an r tibetan has an r fine we can reconstruct r but all chinese has an r tibetan has an l what to do with that so i just reconstructed r l mechanically and you know we do have like like it's a possible sequence of sounds and human language so i'm not too bothered and just a point to remember are in sorry and in brackets in vexer and cigars uh system allows for r as an interpretation so you'll see some of those in the next uh couple slides so here are examples to be reconstructed r uh actually kind of uncannily good uh correspondence between chinese and tibetan score to wrap in chinese and score to go around in tibetan uh let's look at this next one ser fresh in chinese sar new in tibetan car polar rod in chinese car stick or staff in tibetan so fine nice correspondences right nice correspondence nice cognates uh they can be reconstructed r but here are the ones where it's not so nice maybe um you have ken for send away and it could be care right uh in chinese and then scowl in in tibetan so rl correspondence move uh guar in chinese gull in tibetan and so on so it's a different correspondence it needs a different reconstruction i propose rl it's not very attractive because we don't have those we don't have rn clusters we don't have those other kind of final clusters in general but it needs needs to be dealt with right okay and then just to point out that there are cases where um we can't tell whether it's r or rl in sign of tibetan um to look at neck so neck in chinese cun which could be cutter right uh but tibetan has mogul and mogul i don't know why mogul has ended up there twice that's some kind of mistake and then um uh and the other case to look at is uh sar bright and white uh which compares nicely in tibetan with matar which means fair or beautiful or bright but it also uh compares pretty nicely with sal why you can reconstruct sts al as the root in tibetan i'm not going to get into here but you can and that means clear or bright uh so you see it's just unclear which which tibetan correspondence uh or which tibetan cognate to pick so then it's unclear which um correspondence pattern uh exists and maybe these suggest that actually you know there's some kind of morphological thing uh that would explain these doublets in tibetan but these are the only two so um you know it's pretty marginal if if that is the answer okay um yeah so now we're moving on to the vowels so we looked at um mergers that all chinese did in the finals now we're looking at mergers all chinese did in the bow in the vowels so uh particularly all chinese oh corresponding to tibetan you well this is a little bit of a problem because we have an oh or correspondence and if you know uh sort of textbook case in historical linguistics right oh oh how do you reconstruct it how about oh oh we have oh how do you reconstruct it how about oh but then we have oh corresponding to oh how to reconstruct it i go with schwa followed by a w so oh yeah don't feel particularly committed to this solution uh but here are its advantages it fills a gap in all chinese so all chinese has a w but it doesn't have schwa w it has e w but it doesn't have schwa w and it doesn't have u w either but you wouldn't expect it to because they're both rounded yeah so it fills the gap in all chinese and it's only called for like which is a the the cognates where the correspondence occurs uh all are either open syllable or have velar coders which are exactly the environments where all chinese has a w so it has a w nothing and it has a w k so i think that's also an advantage but there are problems with it as well as a proposal one is that the the number of cognates that you would reconstruct schwa w is higher than the number of cognates where you could reconstruct oh you know kind of maybe it's not a problem because maybe we just need to find more cognates that are sitting around waiting to be discovered uh that have the oh oh correspondence but it it bothers me right like i would expect there to be more o's in uh pro-design or Tibetan than schwa w's and a w and e w merge has o in Tibetan with a lot of other stuff there there o has a lot of points of origin uh in Tibetan or that is to say Tibetan o has lots of points of origin in Sino-Tibet so as a kind of parallelism we would maybe expect schwa w to become o in Tibetan but it doesn't it becomes u by definition right so that's maybe an inelegance of this proposal as well so you you tell me those are the advantages those are the disadvantages uh is it a good reconstruction so here are examples where both languages have ooh this first one i think it's quite quite nice so pru womb in chinese at pruma after birth in Tibetan gu we've discussed before we don't need the r there right gu maternal uncle and uh ku paternal uncle ku nine gu nine yeah very nice comparisons and then here's the o examples so we have something like uh cut or break off be sharp pluck all chop basically zot chop something like that peel or or release lot in all three languages so o and o and o and then here is the problematic correspondence so we have steel is uh maybe kos or cross or maybe even rkos as we discussed in all chinese and it's orku in uh Tibetan we have uh kok for for bent in chinese and guk in in Tibetan so o and o corresponding right seems like enough examples in good enough you know that are overall good enough that we can't ignore them okay so um so that was uh it that was my survey of let's say ambiguities in old chinese uh that can be resolved with uh comparisons to other languages as well as those mergers that look like uh they took place on the way from sino-tibetan to um old chinese and now i will just review them in something like uh chronological order but you know as i said we don't know because they're all mergers and they don't interact uh so schwa w changes into o r and whatever this beast is that i reconstruct rl merge as r in chinese yu and l merge as yu glottal stop and final q merge as glottal stop k and this thing whatever it was that i reconstruct as k followed by schwa merge as final k and then we have pulley blanks conjecture which is that let's say r pre-initial and other pre-initials are one of the sources of um let's say rotic-like phenomena in middle chinese and we can write that as cr although it may never have actually passed through that stage and koblin's conjecture uh which i similarly write as a sound change but it's actually maybe more accurately put as a as a phonotactic theory which is that um these rotic phenomena in middle chinese uh never should be reconstructed as a medial when the initial is a dental instead they should be reconstructed as a pre-initial that's koblin's conjecture and then getting down to the the ambiguities that are left we're sort of we've already arrived at old chinese if you like but it just so happens that later changes obscure uh what old chinese looked like at that moment we're unable to recognize r in certain uh kinds of uh syllables it's difficult to distinguish ooh and uh before acutes and also uh uh so let's say rounded vowels merge with unrounded vowels before labials and i think that's it no there's one more uh yeah which is that uh in and in merge and this happened let's say just on the cusp of history is maybe the right way to put it so i think some shi sheng series distinguish them but they they the change seems to have already happened in the odes so um yeah so so i feel okay if you like presenting this as a chronological story even though um as most of them all of them are mergers that don't interact we can't really tell i want to just draw your attention and this is something that those of you looked at my book i do all the time is like you know you you find a story to tell and then focus in on all of the the the misbehaving words so um this this word for you uh it has a really strange correspondence but i think it's unlikely to be uh unrelated uh so that is something that needs work also the word for skin is irregularly missing on the last stop in chinese and this word for sand is an exception to polyblank's uh conjecture uh but in this case i you know i'm not totally i don't know just my intuition says maybe the word for sand in chinese and the word for earth in tibetan are just not cognates um so those are the exceptions and that's the end of this presentation yeah i think so um the the the issue is that we're going to have a lot of stuff it's not cvc right all these pre-initials and the the final glottal in some cases many cases of final s um so the question is kind of can we let's say redo uh cigars 1999 book uh with um updated old chinese and updated uh comparative evidence and arrive at a a root theory that would explain all of these pre-initials and let's call them post-finals i'm not sure that's a that's that's a word either uh as morphological your gloss as differently i i think pardon so you you glossed the final s with a different marker so i guess you mean it's like a post-finals yeah i i mean um there's actually a very nice and this is something that maybe i should actually go into in detail but um those of you who who actually know some chinese and some classical chinese will know that um uh let's say apart from the the the voicing alternation between transitive and intransitive verbs in middle chinese that we saw yesterday the clearest example of morphology in chinese is suffixation with s which from a kind of chinese perspective is understood as a a changing a character's reading from uh not chuxiang to chuxiang and the difficulty is that it seems like it can have you know a million different meanings uh and actually let's say i don't know i i i feel like it's almost rude uh to to um to say he said this but he did say in print uh harps mire in uh his long review of baxter and cigar's book uh says he thinks that um the the function of chuxiang derivation is just to say this character is not being used in its normal usage and to indicate that we are asking you to read it in a different tone so i i think this is the kind of proposal that can really only be made by a a sinologist who has not studied enough linguistics right because like how how is information like that passed on from mother to child you know like sonia that is just to say that um you know uh the the s suffix has clearly has many morphological functions in chinese so much so that uh you know uh faced with that confusion you end up with quite um let's say uh laughable suggestions like that one of harps mire's it's not that he who came up with it it's a kind of idea that's been sort of circulating in sinological circles um geom zhuck recently like two years ago has a nice article where he sort of looks at the different functions of uh chuxiang in middle chinese and compares them with different uh suffixes in gyarong and in some cases different segmentally like oh this one's actually just s this one's si that kind of thing so it um i think it's perfectly possible possible we have a good theory now if you like which is that uh a whole bunch of different suffix sole phenomena uh kind of all collapsed into final s kind of right around the time that uh chinese writing became widespread so that's why we have this you know morphological like it like it looks like an s can be used for 10 different things it's not that it can be you know from a historical perspective that's not the case and that situation only lasted very briefly but long enough to to be the evidence that we have that's the argument that geom zhuck makes and it will be followed up soon by a similar paper by jung shuyang so i think that's a very promising direction returning back to your question that's to say i think we can deal with a lot of these uh final s's and you know maybe we can deal with these pre-initials which is to say i think a a root theory for sino-tibetan of cvc uh where everything else is uh explained as affix sole uh is a good thing to try uh but uh it would be you know a huge undertaking i'm just going to paraphrase the question to make sure everyone understands it you've been looking at middle chinese and seeing these capital h's and these capital x's right and then you probably already noticed that in old chinese the the capital h goes back to an s and the capital x goes back to a global stop well i just explained that that s suffixation is a very widespread um morphological phenomenon in um in chinese so asking about the glottal stop which is to say the capital x and if it only occurred after what would otherwise be open syllables it you kind of no problem right you would just say like oh you know there's k finals and n finals and glottal stop finals but there are many uh well many it may be overstating it there are limited cases where you reconstruct things like m glottal stop and n glottal stop as finals in old chinese and so the question is does the that glottal stop suffixation have a morphological role i don't know and i think it's one of the real kind of uh holy grails uh i'll tell you that personally i find uh you know i know the the the the phonetics people tell me ah there's nothing wrong with you know ending a word m glottal stop but in terms of the i don't know the phonotactics of old chinese in terms of what's normal in in in east asia it bugs me and you know i i realize that's you know just my problem and i need to put my finger on exactly what bugs me if i'm going to complain about it so that's why i've never complained about it um uh but it's uh there let's say this is something that a little bit of work has been done on i think in in sagars 1999 book but it's it's uh tricky yeah and i also think this is something that beckwith really emphasizes is there's something a little fishy about this little glottal stop like one thing is it it seems to have stayed put exactly as is for like 2000 years which is just something glottal stops rarely do yeah glottal stops 10 10 the final glottal stops tend to be quite you know unstable um and like suffocation with a glottal stop to a word that ends with a nasal it just seems a little weird but you know again sort of saying oh that seems a little weird that's not science so so i feel like i should shut my mouth about it what i would say is and you know maybe i should have emphasized this more than i did at the very beginning is i'm a neogramarian so i think all sound change is only conditioned by phonetic position as a method like as a basic methodological principle which is uh to say what's her name the frequency person um by eb yeah so joanne by eb and let's say the sociolinguists talk a lot about oh high frequency words change different than low frequency words i don't want to say that you know all of that empirical work is nonsense i don't think that uh but as a methodological commitment historical linguistics do not allow themselves that move you know and i i like to think of think of it as like you know like when you do geometry as as an ancient greek you have two things an unmarked straight edge and a compass and you do all of your geometry with an unmarked straight edge and a compass and yeah you could do geometry with a let's say for instance a ruler where you could measure things but we don't allow it we don't call it geometry if you do that so i feel the same way about historical linguistics in historical linguistics we have totally exceptionalist regular phonology it as as one tool and and analogy as the other tool and anything you try and do without these two tools i don't call historical linguistics so i don't accept any kind of arguments about frequency


Hello and welcome to discovery conversations about the power of the arts to connect us to each other into place. I'm Victoria Rogers vice president of arts at the night foundation. During me today is Henry Tim's author public speaker, creator of giving Tuesday and president and CEO of Lincoln Center for the performing arts, preeminent performing arts complex here in the US, and home to 12 performing arts companies and educational institutions, dedicated to music, dance and drama. Lincoln Center for the performing arts, the Met, the New York field, Juilliard, New York City Ballet, the film Society of Lincoln Center, the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center, jazz at Lincoln Center, Lincoln Center Theater at the Vivian Beaumont Theater and the School of American Ballet. If you have questions and we hope that you do today please submit them through the show. If you're using zoom, use the Q&A button at the bottom of your screen through Twitter use the hashtag night live and in the comments section of Facebook live stream. We'll get to as many of them as we can throughout the conversation. Now Henry, welcome to discovery. I'm very pleased to be with you thank you for the invitation. Oh, you're so welcome. Hold on a minute I've got a chat message here and I want to see what it is. So last night you tweeted Tuesday, 10s of millions of people did amazing and generous things in every country on earth, with over 2.4 billion generated in the US alone. For those who don't know, tell us about the creation and ongoing evolution of giving Tuesday, what enabled it to literally transform giving around the world. Well, let me start by thanking I know many of the people who will be joining us today will have participated yesterday and giving Tuesday, and it's, I have to I had an experience yesterday which is I think in a year when they after the day are experiences of social media have been negative. Right. It's been bad news. It's been awful things. It's been worrying things. Yesterday was the first day I've had this year where actually my social media and it's largely to do with the algorithm they feed me but my social media was actually pretty joyful. Right. It was actually a whole bunch of stuff from around the world of people doing interesting things of helping each other of being generous to each other and supporting each other. One of the reasons giving Tuesday I think has had such resonance in previous years is it tells a different story than the one we often tell about people, and actually especially the one we've told in some ways this year which is, you know, it's a world where people are being driven apart from each other is a world in which people don't trust each other is a world where people can't be kind to each other. One of those themes, giving Tuesday was designed to counteract right it was always when we first thought of this product it was always this idea which was like this Black Friday and Cyber Monday and you remember those images of kind of people lined up in front of stores fighting over televisions right you remember those kinds of images we always thought well what's the kind of philanthropic counterpoint to that, which is which is what you know where we're giving Tuesday kind of began its life. And it's just been amazing to watch it to grow around the world and it's truly a project which has only grown because of the generosity of people who take it and make it bigger, right they grab it and they take they take it somewhere you would never expect I was learning yesterday about a campaign in Sierra Leone this year they did a special campaign around masking as a sign of generosity, but actually the act of masking is something which is an act of giving to your society and your community and, you know, it was a reminder, much needed for me a reminder I think of the essential goodness in all of us. I agree with you and you, you really created that when you were at the 92nd straight why right. Yeah, we were. So we were thinking a lot interesting and you know something which you know a big topic today really is like how do you. How do you reimagine these great institutions. Right if you think about the, you know, the, the 90 second three why 144 years old as an institution how do you reimagine what it does and how it does it. So what I was trying to think about then was the, the, one of the great challenges of any institution is your mission becomes your model. And what I mean by that is, at some point you try and solve the problem and the way you solve the problem is a certain kind of model which exists at the time, and then a lot of time passes and you can't get off that idea and so the 90 seconds are all right. In decades gone past if you wanted to engage around philanthropy, you would have organized a lecture about philanthropy you've had a philanthropy class you would have gathered people and got them to the building to engage in a topic of philanthropy but there wasn't really a way of distributing the message of the 90 seconds three why. And so giving Tuesday was an experiment say okay how do you take one of the values of the why, and you know the why is a Jewish organization serving people with all backgrounds but was very focused on the idea of about being charitable and philanthropy, how would you scale that beyond the four walls of the why and so giving Tuesday was was born in that spirit. And I remember that the great conversation at the beginning, one of the big decisions we made out giving Tuesday was not to brand it right not to not to call it the 90 seconds street wise giving Tuesday right and anyone on this call who's in the public sector can probably imagine the conversation which was like, we're going to do this thing called giving Tuesday, but we're not going to say credit for it we're not going to make it the 90 seconds free wise giving Tuesday I remember I was talking to one of our board members at the time, who said this is great I love this just explains me where the wise logo is going to be, will it be between giving and Tuesday and I was like no no no we're not going to, we're not going to, we're going to put our logo on it because we make it about asking it won't ever be owned by anybody else, no one else will be able to take it somewhere new. And I think that decision was was pretty bold back then, and actually has really proven proven proven the right one, our current CEO of giving Tuesday, she talks about the importance of unbranding this idea that we as institutions actually have to be less focused on putting our stamp on things and more focused on actually how you can be a part of something and not eat up all the space. And I think that's a very resonant idea today. I think so as well. So, you know, less than a year into your position as the new president and CEO of Lincoln Center coven 19 basically shuttered in in person interactions. You know, the landscape for artists and for organizations over across our country we've seen at least a $14.6 billion negative impact today. That's just with not for profit organizations if you look at the entire creative economy. It's $150 billion and almost 3 million jobs that currently don't exist. You know what we're getting a couple of questions about that. But as you look back at the almost 10 months, what stood out to you. Where did you find grace. And how did you galvanize your team to really change your programming as you pivoted a lot to digital during that period. Yeah, I think, I mean, look, I think once we've seen you think back now. I remember the there was a video of the first lockdown in Italy in Siena where they remember this video right this is yeah singing from the balconies and it was a chorus chorus as a way of showing solidarity and it was such a kind of meaningful metaphor for the for the coronavirus and then I think I think we saw in New York and I know I saw it. I know you see it across the country too was was this moment at seven o'clock each night when everyone would come out their windows and they would they would clap and we remember we in New York. We would see so many amazing moments where you would recognize that actually there was this moment at seven o'clock at a time when everyone was so fearful we were all being kept apart. There was a moment I always saw this in artistic terms there was a moment this kind of like the community orchestra came to life right everyone go out their windows bang pots of pans and there was a clarinetist down look down the road from me and like you have this sense that it showed us what the arts do so well which is they help us connect with other human beings in a meaningful way and so important this year, and I think there's a kind of metaphor for the work of the arts not just Lincoln Center but the artistic community everywhere. What everyone did was they didn't stop music they didn't stop creating they didn't stop connecting they just found new ways, often unsatisfying ways actually but found new ways to meet their mission. So I think the thing that I've been inspired by this year is you just look across the country at the organizations and individuals who have found new ways to meet their mission, even though their models have changed you know the acts of service of everyone in New York Philharmonic driving around in a pickup truck to take parts to people. You've seen countless performers performing for free seen people doing concerts for medical workers, you know the artistic community as a whole. I think has just excelled at a time that it's been so badly damaged. It is excel and actually creating service for for the country and I think one of the reasons there's such a great need for greater support for the arts in general and of course from the new administration is because the arts have served so fully this year at a time of such a challenge, and we're going to need a huge amount of help to get back on our feet. Didn't you also turn Lincoln Center into a place for people to come and get food I know you did voting. Yeah. It's not just a place for arts talk talk a little bit more about how you are really involving the community and because you're serving the community. Hey look I think we think of ourselves as a cultural center and to some degree is community center right and that hasn't always been true right that isn't always the case and so I think thinking about. We've got a lot of work to do to reimagine our relationship with our local community, which is from the very beginning was was controversial and in some cases tragic is very difficult and uncomfortable beginning of Lincoln Center story. And over the years, we've got to distant from people closest to us, and so there's a lot of work that we have to do to start to rebuild that and so we've been very focused on work around the census for example we became a polling place for the first time. We've been, we've become a food distribution bank for the first time on campus providing the food insecure in our own community with with some support. We've always had music that that was the you know we for all of, I think it's fair to say of a kind of a more civic focus to our work. We never forget the fact we're a cultural center. So it was wonderful to watch the musicians of the Philharmonic playing for those clients who were lining up for the food bank. So you have that kind of combination of the two and I don't think for what it's worth. This was not for me a reaction to the coronavirus. I think we were very much pre coronavirus. We were very much recognizing I think that we as an institution have a lot of work to do as many cultural organizations do to reconnect with people who have felt too far from us and and and in some cases we've kept too far. So I think that work had begun I think it's intensified this year and that no question. And you must have seen that across the field Victoria I mean you like as you look across the the country alongside the great damage which has been caused. I think there is kind of a story you can see about resilience and optimism. I totally agree with you in in some really unexpected ways I've been excited to see some of these new hybrid formats that are coming out. One here in Miami that the Miami City Ballet did where they commissioned a choreographer he worked with the dancers over zoom. Then they went in and filmed following guidelines and created duets that weren't there. But I found it really moving as I did one of the concerts that I watched on you know Lincoln Center's feed where they were they were playing to to frontline hospital workers and the man is sitting there and the woman with tears in their eyes and you know they're socially distanced or safely distanced from the violinist but that connection that experience that was offered to them. I mean having a musician playing for you like that or some of the others that I've seen both at Lincoln Center and other places where artists are just making themselves totally available as they do and conveying their sorrow sorrow their laughter their feelings through their own artistic genre and I think that's what artists do best they give us a different lens on the world through their artistry and for that I am eternally grateful and makes me both on an individual level and certainly as a grantmaker to want to support this creation, you know the artistic creation and what that means for us so we've got a question here from Peter to this do you believe that the previous business models for the arts are still valid. Yes, or is coven forcing arts administrators to rethink how to deliver against mission. I think a bit of both so I think I mean the previous business models. You know I think there's going to be a world in which we're selling tickets and lots of them. I think especially once we get to a point where the pent up demand for congregation will be so significant.  I mean it really you know there will be a point of which given the opportunity I think the demand for people to be people is going to be pretty significant Henry we have we have no, we don't know what you're saying with that. So, so I do think that's going to be so I think they'll be a real I think they'll be a, they'll be a big demand when the time comes, I do think what will happen I think one of the. You know that there are two, there are two bits of the story for the performing arts right one is the kind of tragedy and the trauma as you point out at the start, especially to many individual artists. And another part of this is there has been a transformation that there has been more experiment in the digital space by necessity, right, not by intention. I remember in them, we used to do this thing at Lincoln Center every summer which is we would bring in arts educators from around the country for a summer forum. It's a great thing right so we have 100 hundreds people will come to Lincoln Center, they would fly in and they'd have you know three or four weeks together and it would be a life changing experience the people who came. Before coronavirus we were having conversation internally and saying it was an intellectual question at the time. Would we be better off doing that every year, or trying to build a digital network of 10,000 arts educators right who never met in person but you would create a digital network to share best practice and ideas and solidarity and all the rest of it. And we had an interesting conversation amongst the team which is which would you prefer and some people want the in person 300 and some people like the 10,000. But that became not an academic exercise for us because we couldn't convene anymore so we had to think about okay how do you scale this in some interesting ways. And so I think what what I my great hope is is that what will end up happening is people will hang on to the best parts of the old model, and then build alongside it what we've learned from this new world and how we start to connect around that. And my optimistic optimistic optimistic prediction is that we'll end up with people getting the best of both worlds that will be able to actually add to our existing model with more digital. And I think it's also better saying look you know night foundation has done some really interesting and useful work in preparedness for this. The fact has got a lot long way to go to kind of catch up with digital, you know we have unnecessarily resisted it in many ways, with the argument that somehow it's lightweight and trivial and an unimportant. And that can often be true of the digital world, but it isn't always true right there is. There's absolutely meaning and substance to be found in digital lives. And so I think our job going forward is is as artistic organizations is, is how do we identify the same quality that we put on our stages online, and how do we meld those worlds together in a meaningful way and that certainly bring big priority for Lincoln Center. Yeah, and I've, you know I've said this before in some of these conversations, because I'm, I'm enjoying arts, experiencing artists is sort of this role for me. And because I'm not a digital native, I'm a learner but I'm not a digital native, it's, can we create experiences that evoke that same kind of response in people because for me live performance is just something to behold. But I wanted wanted to say here that we actually have somebody joining us from India. Today, I think that's the somebody that the furthest away that I've had yet in one of these but we've got a couple of questions, you know. I wanted to get back to because it's going to relate to a question that I asked you later in our conversations but it's, you know, how do you think institutions like Lincoln Center can better engage with Native American communities and artists. For example, with Linnafe on whose land Lincoln Center was was built upon and I know that we you and I have talked some about this as well so you don't mind taking that one on. I think all of our, I think we all need to go through a period of kind of read of reinstitution, right, which is by which I mean how do we think about reconnecting with the land that we live on the world that we inhabit the communities that we represent and those that we don't right that's a voyage of discovery and so we've, we put together a project called the mirror project, which is all about how we do two things one how do we as an institution better reflect the world that we live in, and the city we live in. And to also how do we look in the mirror, how do we as an institution look back and look back on the parts of our history that we aren't proud of and reckon with them in a meaningful way. So that that's exactly the kind of way I think that we are going to start to reset a relationship with a number of groups of people who have felt too distant from Lincoln Center and too disconnected from Lincoln Center and our job I think as administrators is to do whatever we can to bring down some barriers and to do whatever we can to make some connections, and that's been a priority for us from from the start and anyone who has come through this year I think feels that that responsibility to even more significant degree. Another one related to this is, you know, have you explored how you develop partnerships with smaller and midsize organizations, and will post COVID 19 world and the arts be smaller with mergers between like organizations in order to survive. That last question I get a lot. Yeah, I think the answers. We've certainly thinking a lot about partnership, although I don't think historically we've been as good at this as we need to get right I think one of the dangers of becoming a big institution is you kind of start to believe your own press a little bit and you get. You lose the capacity to be a good partner to lots of people. So we've done some projects I like a lot there was a project we did with cultural innovation fund, which was a project which connected us to small arts organizations throughout the five boroughs, which was a really powerful way actually of us thinking about how you innovate at scale, and a way for us to learn from, from all sorts of arts organizations who really weren't on kind of the Lincoln Center radar. So our work going forward is actually to is is by necessity we're all going to be hyper hyper local organizations for a while right it's going to be a long time since we have lots of people flooding in from around the world. So I do think it's a good opportunity for us to kind of reconnect to how we engage with the city and we've certainly been trying to do that Lincoln Center the, the, the, the work we've begun, and I want to underscore begun because it's many years of work ahead the work we've begun I think is to kind of reset our relationship, particularly with community groups, and to re engage with with people and parts of the city who have, who have not been part of Lincoln Center as well in the way that they need to be. Here's another question that relates to this conversation. You know our institutions like Lincoln Center turning to internet artists to create unconventional intersections when rethinking the public stage to the personalized computer, and that comes from Jillian. Yes, I think this is a really interesting, I'm actually, I think this is to the something very interesting, we've seen two things happen last year, particularly right, one has been a kind of repurposing of work. So one has been, let's find a way of putting that thing we've always done in halls onto the internet. So that's the digital live stream as a console those kinds of things which essentially is let's just try and replicate the in person experience and put it on the internet. What we've seen is things which are designed for the internet as a stage. Now that's been happening for a long time but you've obviously seen it intensify this year. So there's been a really interesting I think trends in what you, you know that kind of digital arts which is work which is designed, not for a theater and then repositioned but actually designed for the internet. And I think that's been some of the stuff that I've been very struck by this year we did a bunch of stuff with the, the works and process program at the Guggenheim we did a collaboration with them. And it led to some really interesting work which was done which was actually done outside at Lincoln Center on the plaza, which was designed essentially for an internet stage it wasn't designed for an in person audience. And I think that is a very promising direction and we're certainly going to do some more work to learn and to understand some of the work in that field and see what part Lincoln Center might play. I'll go on to my next question. For you, Henry is this one is from Hadassah. Are you focused on keeping new audiences that have developed the assume and have your contributions from remote audiences been significant. Yes and no, in that order. I think I wondered about that. So I think we've I think that there's definitely been a world of people we've opened up to like if you to the mall right now that they've had 15 million people watch their free live stream in the evenings. Yeah, amazing service throughout this year to people which is providing free opera to people in the world. You know that's that's had a financial positive but by no means a very significant one right so I think part of the challenges we've other industries went through this to there was a point in all industries in which there was you know very little money to be had on the digital and then that shifted pretty quick.  We just set up a like an R&D lab at Lincoln Center, specifically for that kind of question which is okay how do we think about what the kind of revenue opportunities might be down the line in in some more of those worlds. I think digital diversity in general was on our mind before coronavirus which is one of the good if spooky things about the platforms we have access to now as you can target audiences and where you couldn't before. So, if you're, you know, interested in reaching a demographic between 20 and 35 of people in Brooklyn who love jazz you can target those people pretty accurately. One of the things is you then actually can think more intentionally about curating audiences so who is it you're actually trying to reach and who are you trying to bring to Lincoln Center and how are you trying to make those kinds of connections. So I think there's going to be some really interesting work in the kind of digital diversity space in the sense of actually us thinking about our marketing as a function of our DEI strategy. I think I think that's direction you're going to be really interesting and our teams done some really, really interesting work in that space. I think that you sort of alluded to the program, but sort of the people that you, you're bringing in to do these collaborations are really interesting. You know these these connections between artists and looking at issues, you know with them being able to decide, you know what really what is the project that they want to create. You know, bringing in a phenomenal opportunity to sort of address some of the issues that we've been seeing but you know you and Jeremy Hyman's wrote a book new power that really looks at old and new new ways of looking at power and in that you are too positive that for every business every organization and every political activity, mobilization of networks is the key, if you want to get ahead, and you added to that. You need to do that you need to be committed in a strategic way prepared to think about how you can engage more people, more meaningfully, meaningfully in your work. So how is that playing out at Lincoln Center and then maybe give people we did. There's a link that is posted in the chat, folks for, for those of you I can tell you it's a great read and has given me a lot to think about is I look at you know how we evaluate what's happening in our country and where we can target dollars and have even greater impact so how's how's this playing out at Lincoln Center. So part of the, if you think about kind of the old power world and the new power world, the old power world, which Lincoln Center but certainly has grown up in was one where you know a small number of individuals and organizations had a lot of power that they could kind of store up and spend down on their terms. And there'll be those who see hints about in the grant making world as well right so you can see that there's, there's that sense of a set of institutions that are very important to our world right but benefited from an old power world and what's beginning to shift now is this kind of wave of participation that is defining all of our world right this kind of people's capacity to be engaged is such an interesting and important thing. So thanks for organizations is going to be how organizations who thrive in the old power world start to meet the new power world in interesting ways. And so, I'll give you one example from Lincoln Center we did a thing called Memorial for us all. So it was more typically if you want to have a memorial concert Lincoln Center someone very significant or someone of means would would pass away and they would have a concert at Lincoln Center Memorial for us all was something we did with local faith groups who you know during the height of the coronavirus were all challenged by the same problem which is that they couldn't have services they couldn't have burials they couldn't have funeral services. So Memorial for us all was a weekly concert where we would have in an old power way the best musicians in the world performance that we had you know yo yo Ma and Norm Lewis and people. But New Yorkers all around the city could submit names of people they wanted to have recognized so that the concert would be a tribute to people they had lost. And so thousands of New Yorkers would submit names each week and we would scroll across the screen as these works were being played. And that's just a small example of I think the kind of direction, which is right for Lincoln Center which is, we're not something a crowdsource Lincoln Center right what we're going to try and do is look for meaningful ways to blend old and new power and bring more participation into our model. And if you want a striking example as to the opportunity. Think about tick tock, which I'm sure many of you are thinking about all the time, and just think about the huge enthusiasm for choreography and dance that is playing out now across tick tock think about the generations of people are thinking of themselves as dancers and performers in ways they never have done before. And there are two perspectives the whole power organizations might take on this. One is, you know this is trivial and it's not good enough and it's not disciplined enough and you know and this is amateur right posture one posture is, there's this glorious opportunity of participation so the question for institutions is how can we add value to those worlds that the question isn't how can we make sure those worlds do what want them to do. The question is what is the the contribution we can provide we can add to that world. So we've done a bunch of stuff this year which has been kind of some fun dance videos which have been kind of providing some expert dancers to teach dance steps and scale those. But I think that the kind of the one extraordinary thing for all of us in the arts right now is there has never been more art, just from a volume perspective right and that sounds like a weird thing to say but actually the creation of our, we've never had more artworks we've never had more audiences. We've never had more people of different backgrounds presenting their arts to a market in a way that that was actually pretty narrowly prescribed in the old power world. So there's going to be a very interesting shift in how institutions are ours, you know, chief amongst them, how we reimagine our work to not ignore that world or minimize it but to connect with it. I think that's a really good question. Yeah, and one last question I told you our 30 minutes would go by in a blink and it has. This is from Carlos here with a Miami lighthouse for the blind. And he says how is your projection to have normal activities after the majority of people get the vaccine, you know with live arts performances normalized. I don't think I have an expert view on that. We have a medical council we put together an income center of who in leading experts in the medical world and kind of the line we're getting from them was, you know, you next summer looking, looking, you know, viable, not definite but there's definitely a good chance I think that vaccination is going to be the key question. And I think just as a closing thought, I think one thing which is going to be a big challenge in general next year is, is vaccination campaigns. And I think the arts community is going to have a real role to play, particularly in communities who historically have distrusted the medical professions. The arts world have a really interesting role to play in connecting with groups across the country in the same way actually the arts community did with the census really did a good job I think in that. So I think as we think about the kind of the great, the great irony is not going to the great irony of the coronavirus is going to be that we end up that we get the miracle which is a vaccine exists, and yet people won't take it. So I think that's going to be a really interesting and challenging and important civic question for 2021 and we're with some others we're doing some thinking around how the arts might play a role there. So I lied. One more question here. But any prospect of a digital performance and art constituent being added in the foreseeable future, just as jazz at Lincoln Center was added in 96 and met live in HD was launched in 2006. Yeah, on the radar. I don't think I think that it's definitely the case that we ought to be we are Lincoln Center. We're in the center for performing arts, which is all of them. And there's lots of areas we've actually historically either ignored or not paid much attention to. So I think one of the things for the years ahead is, how do we better engage with some disciplines we've overlooked. And I would think of digital arts as one of the more exciting ones of those. I wouldn't agree with you more and that you know that that is an interest of night so let's see what collaborations come up. Our time is up today I'd like to thank all of you for joining and for submitting your questions it always makes the conversations even better when we know exactly what's on your mind. A special thanks to Henry. It's, it's just been fun, and that that makes for a great day. And I want to thank the night production crew Justin Raul and Natalia for making this all happen. Remind you that the beats at the top of the show were designed and created by Chris bar our director of art and technology here at night, and the music that will play us out is composed and performed by the amazing jazz pianist and Akron zone City's Theron Brown, and to ask you to tune in on December 10 for an episode of informed and engaged, hosted by our journalism colleagues, what to expect after the unexpected 2021 predictions for journalism and informed communities. Thanks so much for being with us again Henry, thank you so much for the conversation. Bye.


The PXG 0211Z driver is designed to be the most user-friendly on the market. Maximum forgiveness, low and deep CG for effortless high launch. This driver is part of a new range of clubs aimed at a very specific category of golfer. That category of golfer could be bigger than they think. Oh, we just about find that right hand side. One of the toughest holes here at Cardin Park in terms of driver. And no matter what level of the game you play at, driving can be the most difficult part of the game, but it can also be the most rewarding. We all love to get that big dog out, but it's tough and there's reasons why it's tough and this driver addresses quite a few of them. Right, so what are those issues I refer to that make driver quite so difficult to use? Well, one of them is generally a lack of loft. The second factor can be the length of shaft, which means it's very difficult for us average golfers to control that clubhead. So what they've done with this driver, they've addressed at least two of those issues, but also looked at those three important letters, MOI.  They've also put a shorter length shaft in at 44 inches as standard and the standard loft on the product is 16 degrees. So I'm thinking all those put together could provide with a real interesting option for beginner drivers, someone with slow swing speeds or general average golfers who are struggling with driver. Right, so what have PXU managed to achieve in terms of looks on this product and also in terms of technology? What I'm interested in is how it looks from the outside and in particularly at address. And when it sits down, I've got to say, I really like the crown. I think they've done a great job in this sort of step down at the back and it elongates and not in a way it's probably looking it from a side on angle. It looks almost stretched out, but from above, I don't mind the look of it at all and it's in no way off putting that I thought it might be when I first seen the images of it from underneath. Like I said, it's been simplified. There's just a one standard 10 gram weight that's placed right at the very back. And again, this sort of stretched out crown and the elongated shape of it is very much there to introduce that low CG and promote the high ball shots that we've, ball flights rather, that we've seen already on camera. One other interesting factor for me is there's a standard driver and it comes at 16 degrees. There are no other options, but you have got an adjustable hosel which takes that up one and a half degrees or down one and a half degrees. So that's interesting. There's a bit of offset to say the least on the club. And again, that's to promote a sort of draw bias and help, which the majority of beginner golfers and the majority of golfers in general suffer from, which is a bit of a slice of that will certainly help there. And in terms of MOI, which we ultimately know as forgiveness, it's 9% greater than that of the 0 to 11 range that exists right now. So overall, in terms of that package, it takes the box in terms of how it looks visibly. There's some tech packed in there. I love the idea of the 16 degrees loft, which is certainly a massive help to the majority of golfers out there who are trying to use driver for the very first time. And to be honest with you, probably for a lot of us who've used the driver plenty enough and struggle, that extra loft is a massive help. Once again, look at that ball flight. I'm hoping that's picking that up on the camera.  It's gone that high. Again, the thing that we know is going to happen is that this thing is going to spin a lot. Ultimately, that again can be a massive help in terms of control. Eliminate slice again, which you've seen that anti sort of or the draw bias face, closed face, if you like. I haven't really anything outright whatsoever. And again, that's something I can certainly do. But you've seen a really straight ball flight, a really high ball flight. And I've got to admit, I mean, so far in, I've played with this a few holes yesterday. And again, we started off today and I've been really impressed with what it does. That thing about it does exactly what it says on the tin. It couldn't be more true in the case of what this does. And you know what? Again, just before I pack up this bit is that it almost always when I do a review like this, it questions why I make the game so difficult in the sense that I've got a 90 degree drive ahead, whatever it is, 60 gram stiff shaft. And we're now in a sort of reg 5.5. We've got 16 degrees worth of loft. We haven't missed a fairway all day. We might give up a couple of yards in terms of distance, but ultimately it's been so enjoyable to play this club. Right. So one point to mention, and you may have seen this if you watched last night's video on the hybrid irons. And that's that these are very much put together as a box set option. Pretty much an upmarket box set, but that's how they're being sold. So you can either buy the hybrid irons. I think the six of those, then you've got the fairway wood hybrid and driver put together, or you can buy the full set of the 10 clubs. And that's all fantastic in a great way. Like I said last night of beginners getting into golf and getting themselves a real good set put together. And you've got the options of mixing it out in terms of what budget suits, but also what suits your requirements right now. My question in this video to you is how many of you having seen how I've performed with this driver, the kind of feedback that I've given, how many of you would consider this as being a viable option for you as a driver to put in the bag? Because seriously, I know this is aimed at a specific market. I know that PXG probably don't want to drive customers away from their existing range, but as a driver in its own right, I think there's lots of average golfers out there that could make good use of this and what it does, which is effectively get the ball up and out there very easily. High ball flight. I've found a lot of fairways with it, and it's made the game just incredibly, just good fun, just made it easier. And ultimately, surely we're all after that, whether you're a beginner and average golfer, it maybe doesn't sit in the hands of that experienced pro end, but certainly I reckon a lot of us will be worth giving this a go, you know. So comments down below, what are your thoughts and what general interest have you got in this product range? Might have found a bunker there, but again, have we just, just perhaps avoided it, but again, another towering ball flight. 18th here at Cardin Park, always a nice finish from this elevated T position, and generally you don't need to get that ball any higher, but that's gone into orbit yet again. And I think that's me done in terms of the review of this O211Z or Z driver. The driver that we've looked at today, but obviously the whole range really, and like I said, I'd urge you to go back and look at last night's video in terms of the hybrid irons, because my sort of finishing summary would be they've just created a real interesting product range, and like I said, it's aimed at a specific market, it's priced up, like I said, it's a box set, it's all put together for you to buy and want to simplify that whole process, I suppose, and get people involved in golf, but I have genuinely enjoyed playing these, and I said again to Hannah, I've referenced Hannah a few times because we've had a lot of conversations off camera. I think my performance in terms of the driver has been as good as I've hit anything on camera. We found fairway after fairway, yet there's no doubt you know it's not the longest driver in the world, it's not intended to be, because it's going to definitely, if we were on dry ball data, I can see that this is a little bit spinny. Yes, it's going too high in terms of your ideal scenarios, but the ideal scenario in golf as well sometimes is just to find that fairway to get that ball up and out there, which I keep referencing, and for the marketplaces it's aimed at, it's a massive help to get people into golf, to enjoy what like I said at the beginning of this video, everybody loves it in a big dog, we love hitting the ball as far as we possibly can, even though sometimes it's to our detriment, that's all of us are dragged into is extra yards as long as we can. So to begin a golfer, being able to use driver early on in their involvement in golf has got to be a real plus point for me, but like I said, forgetting all the beginners bit on an overall performance of, I won't think I've not mentioned that to you and I'll finish off with it is the sound of it, the sound is extremely loud and I noticed it on the first coupler shots, and then when we carried on it wasn't so much an issue, but that was one thing that I did reference, it's a really loud sounding driver, but yet again for a beginner golfer the idea that all of a sudden something's fired off the face may give that extra bit of an encouragement as well, so no real negatives to report back whatsoever. The only thing I don't know yet is the price point and I'm sure in the next day or two or maybe this has been released already how much of these are all being sold for and that'll be another kind of indicator as to whether or not how good this product is going to be and whether or not it's realistically priced for outside for that beginner's marketplace. Anyway I'm all done, what a great way to finish 18th tier at Cardin Park on a Cheshire course, sun has been shining all afternoon, we'd have had a fantastic afternoon so as I said comments down below, give me your feedback as ever and I'll see you all very soon.


Ayudhini hitmaker Mluñeci Buttelezzi is living in hunger. Ayudhini hitmaker Mankanko, real name Mluñeci Buttelezzi, is claiming to be dying of hunger because he has been apparently ripped off by music giants. Remember the hit song Ayudhini which kept us up all night in 2018? Those were the better days. Now, the museo behind the single says he is now struggling to make ends meet as he has fallen on hard times. Speaking to Ayudhini, Mankanko said he only received a penny worth of royalties, leaving him to worry about where the rest of the funds went. The museo who broke into the music scene in 2018 said his hit song only made him r4000. At the time of releasing the song, Mankanko says he had no contract signed with any company. It was only after releasing the song, which topped charts where he was apparently approached by a record company called UJU Records. Currently, because of the pandemic, he is struggling to get bookings and perform at events. I do not know where the rest of the money went. I do believe there are people who are feeding off of my hard work, he told the paper. He further added that he suspects the company of ripping him off but he is not certain. In an email sent to the publication, the Southern African Rights Organization, SAMRO, clear off any error on their part. The company claims Ayudhini royalties were paid off in 2018 but according to their records, Mankanko is not the owner of the song. They then advised him to talk with the owners of the song. This story is just one of many and several artists have always been vocal about being ripped off by music giants. This takes us back to the ongoing feud between rap life former artists, Questa, Makwa, Noda, and many others. Makwa went on Instagram Live and exposed the people who owe him money. A fight broke off between him and Noda who then took shots at Questa. They all point fingers at Questa but the rapper clarified everything but admitted to his mistake. As success came, through everyone's efforts, difference of ideas, mismanagement of funds and many other things led to distrust. I'm guilty of some of these things and so are Noda and Leroy. He said, he also added, Leroy handled the finances, Noda was the music executive and I, as Questa, was the catalyst to source funds through performances, endorsements, etc. Yeah


Hi, my name is Mark Roemnack. I just got the suit dodged here. I had an issue with my other dodge. They were asking me here at Mountain View to give me a new one. So yeah, I would definitely recommend them. Yeah, that's it.


You know doesn't ship here the keto pro we're gonna talk a little bit about something that just came to me So I'm on a little road trip recently, and I'm traveling on a lot and a lot people are like Well, my diet's not perfect. So I stopped drinking my ketones, right? I don't drink much regularly. Hey, I just want to be clear here Drinking ketones is not the ketogenic diet.  It's just that it's hard for me because like the reason the product exists is so you don't have to Do the ketogenic diet? It's exactly the opposite of what you're thinking it is. I did a ketogenic diet for 15 years I didn't want to drinking the product makes me though.   So you're more prone to gaining weight. You're more prone to being tired You're more trying to be in fatigue.  My diet isn't perfect Drink an extra serving of ketones do the exact opposite of what you think you need to do and you're gonna get better results than ever Y'all so listen. This is not a diet This is drinking ketones and then you can support you with any diet you choose But don't stop drinking ketones because you don't follow a perfect diet drink more ketones if you don't follow a perfect diet Cheers y'all