اللہ سبحانہ وعطاعالہ رسی درام ہوتا ہے، یہ پہنچ کہہ سلمسوں نے مطالعہ ہوتی ہے لہذا اللہ سبحانہ وعطاعالہ کی بات ہیں لہذا نرے کچھ سامنے کیا ہے ، مجھے ملوک ہی بات کیا ہے۔ نورنا جانے کیسے کہ ہم مسلموں کے Motete ہم مسلم بہت سے دوروں ہی کیا کرنا حیرت جاتا ہے کیونکہ اس لنکی مسلم مجھے بہت سے بہت م straighten ہے لہذا اللہ سبحانہ وعطاعالہ نے ملوک کی حیرت کے لہاں صرف اور یہ روصی ہوتا ہے اسے مسلم ہیں۔ لہذاYou پر نکزomos روصی نفیقت موسلی کرنا ہےChris Sir muerte Film اور ہمارے میں رہی ہے کہ ہمارے ہی خوشت امامی میں ہوں، اور ایہمji امامی ہوتا ہے ، اگر not every single one of us ہمارے ہمارے ہی ہورا ہے ۔کب چیزہ ہمارے ہوتا ہے لہذا اللہ سبحانہ ہوا تعالیہ ، اور ہمارے ہونے ہمارے ہی بجانا ہوتا ہے ، اللہ سبحانہ ہوا دیکھنا ہے ، اور اس جو دیکھا ہے اور اس کے داخل مدرھے طرف اور خودوں کو جب ہمارے ہوتا ہے اور آپ کو دلوں کو معاہی ہمارے ہوتا ہے. today across the globe we find people who sometimes and i spoke about this last night for some of you who might have been with us sometimes what we find is people claim to be muslimin and they claim to be followers of the sunnah of Muhammad صلى اللہ علیہ وسلم but the way they treat others is actually so bad that it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those who interact with them i don't know why i'm saying mouths but perhaps it's because we speak foul language we choose words that are hurtful how then do we expect people to turn to the dean and how do we expect to benefit ourselves and this is why one of the most important aspects that i need to worry about in yourselves is the way we use our tongues if you take a look at the message of اللہ سبحانہ واتعالہ you will find it quite clear where اللہ سبحانہ واتعالہ says and this is سورہ تل حزاب او you who believe be conscious of اللہ سبحانہ واتعالہ and utter that which is upright صدید means that which is upright straight we could also say only utter that which is upright which means stay away from language that is foul from falsehood stay away from anything that is vulgar that which is intentionally hurtful to others remember to other to utter words of goodness remember to apologize to people remember to say that which is straight forward and so on all this is included in that term سدی دن that which is straight we stay away from so many or from all the different types of words that are bad unacceptable and we utter words that are good so much so that even if you were to utter words of kindness and love to your own spouse and children and parents and family members you would find that that would be considered a straight upright speech may Allah protect us and you look at the حدیث of the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he clearly says a true believer is he who is not vulgar he is not bad mouth he does not utter swear words he does not lie these are the narrations of رسول اللہ صلى الله عليه وسلم so to develop character it's not going to just come without an effort i call on you to make a مجر مسف افت to work on your character and conduct so that you can improve yourself as a muslim because many of us sadly think islam is one thing and character and conduct is another yet your character is a reflection of your islam and your e-man and this is why when رسول اللہ صلى الله عليه وسلم was asked by his companions regarding something that i desperately want and you too would probably definitely want what is that جنہ جنہ may Allah grant us جنہ i want جنہ and so do you don't you want جنہ yes you do سبحان اللہ don't you want جنہ you do so the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was asked what are the characteristics of those who will be entering جنہ you know there are so many people who will be entering جنہ what are their characteristics and he made it clear he mentioned two main qualities what are they تقو اللہ و حسن الخلقی the consciousness of اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی the fear of اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی every time you are worried about your link with اللہ and your relation with اللہ i need to ask myself am i really questioning myself what is my link with اللہ how close am i to اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی are we questioning ourselves am i better in my link with اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی today than i was yesterday or than i was earlier on this morning perhaps if that is my concern and that is my worry and that is what i am always asking myself that means by the will of اللہ i'm heading in the right direction but if i'm a person who never ever thinks what's my link with اللہ how can we then ever have that beautiful link with اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی because in order to develop that link we will need to be disciplined we will need to improve ourselves we will need to get up for صلاح not solely because we have to like i say because we want to difference between the two we get up for صلاح at some stage because we have to it's our duty but there's a stage higher than that and that is when you develop your link with اللہ you fulfill your صلاح because you want to over and above that obligation i want to do it so this is why you find yourself dressing appropriately because i want to dress appropriately there is there is obviously the ruling a person would not be sinful if they did it because they have to do it but we would achieve a greater reward if we did it because we want to do it over and above the obligation that اللہ has placed on our shoulders اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی make it easy for us so this is why the same narration says you need تقو اللہ that is one of the characteristics that will earn you the paradise that we all want and for your information the difference between a believer and a non-believer one looks forward to the meeting with his maker whilst the other does not remember this you have people sometimes walking all over the world if they're not believers in اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی if they don't have belief they would not be looking forward to the day they meet with اللہ if you are a true believer you look forward to the day you meet with اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی you look forward to the last day you know that there is a life after death which is far more valuable and far more important and in fact that is the most important thing for us it is more important than whatever is happening around me today whatever i'm being affected by or the profit and loss that i may be experiencing in my own business life or family life or anything else today in this world is not as important as my aakhira this is why we are taught as muslimin do not compromise your hereafter do not compromise your paradise by falling into the traps of the world sometimes people want to do something they want to achieve something that is unacceptable in the eyes of اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی but because it is being marketed so strongly they tend to fall into it not realizing that you know what i'm just doing i have just sold a huge mansion in janna and i've received in return for it a payment and that is something minor that is even the displeasure of اللہ that cannot bring about any goodness so ایک اللہ سبحانہ و تعالیتیDE مبنی پر کے where we were ا trazم انہ yhtے ترہی سیکенных پھر کیا جو سے دen انہوںząd ہوا ایک سف جہاں بہت،겠 empezar اہم دوسری سماح ہen بسامل اہم مولوذاisha éléments legislation اہم ا Hor is اہم اہم اہم مولو دوسری سماح اسم اہم اہم اہم� inside اہم رہن flame بہتو دھی اہم web friend what's do you think who's do what what is my on puppy whatchi و بوائیں نیاد something سوال ہی پہلے ہی سالو ہی کل پہلے ہی سالا ہی سالا ہی بات ہوتا ہوں کہ جو آپ کو یہ سالا ہی بات کرنا پہلے ہی بہت ہی سالا ہی بات کرتے ہیں یہ ایک حیرت ہے۔ if we are not going to be from amongst those who are bothered about the quality of that سالا then how are we going to improve we ask Allah سبحانہ ا ویعاد کا سب کانچا لے to make us more conscious of it so remember this regarding the link with اللہ سبحانہ ا ویعاد کا ہے then when it comes to the issue of character good character and conduct that is your link کہ اسی لئے گوشاری بحد نہیں ہے کہ آپ کو لئے جانتے ہیں آپ کو جتی بہت سوچ جو اپنے ابھی عمکہ کو دعوائے کیا ہے کہ نمائے بہت ساتھ شکر معلومت ہو جاتے ہیں اور اپنا جو اپنے خواتے ہیں کہ ہمیں 5 minute میں 5Momند casa واقعا جاتے ہیں یا یہ ہم 50ام بھی جاتے ہیں اور یہ اس کے مسلم کی کارکترسٹرسٹکاہی saying جنہ گیک knows the fact that I might have like we say found Islam, years after I was born, which means maybe at the age of 20, 30, 40, some of us maybe at the age of 45-50 when we started getting pains in our legs when Allah السلام اِسے طرح ہمارے than ever anyone who is suffering in any way any form of illness. To be honest it took me so many years. Just an example if it took me so many years to find the path and to tread upon اللہ سبحانہ وطالہ ہم جو وہ ایسا جو ایسا ہے۔ لہذا ہمارے دوٹی ہے۔ Our duty is to convey the message. And this is why regarding the messengers, the prophets of Allah اللہ سبحانہ وطالہ سیس The duty of the messenger is not more than conveying the message. He doesn't have the capacity to actually instill the guidance in you. But he can guide you by showing you the path. Whether you tread upon it or not is in the hands of Allah سبحانہ وطالہ. So we need to be patient with one another. One of the sicknesses or ailments of the age is the issue of becoming judgmental very quickly with one another. We become impatient where we look at a brother or we might come across a sister who may not be as practicing as we are perhaps outwardly. And suddenly we find ourselves developing this hatred towards them as a person. Not realizing my brother two years ago you might have been in a worse off position than they ever were throughout their lives. What happened? You have no patience. We are not at all saying we condone that which is wrong. No don't get me wrong. But we need to work patiently with people. We need to realize and understand. My duty and yours is to convey the message not only verbally but through my beautiful character that is enshrined by Islam. Amazing. We say I'm a Muslim. I'm a Muslim but your character and conduct is nowhere near Islam. Why is that the case? So it is important for me to ensure that I am a living Muslim. Where when people look at me they feel Subhan Allah this person is so calm, so content. And let me find out what is the motivation behind this contentment and the calmness that this person has and the goodness. They treat everyone with kindness when they meet a person perhaps who might look like. You know sometimes we see people and you hear a comedy this guy is a drug addict. Just because he looks a little bit like a heavy smoker. Allah protect us. Look I'm just finding an excuse for that. Allah Subhanahu Wa'Ta'Ala grant us goodness. Either way we should be leaving the bad habit. But there are two things. If you develop such a hatred for the individual how are you going to work on the quality?  Let's work on our own qualities and let's help others work on their qualities. The way that will happen is go back to the Sunnah of Muhammadﷺ. Look at him. How he used to engage in Salah at night. So much so that Aishaﷺ used to ask him you're praying and you know your status. You know the status of Muhammadﷺ نبیﷺ. He is a messenger of Allahﷺ. He knows that he is earning paradise by the will of Allahﷺ. By the mercy of Allahﷺ. That was a status given to him. Forgiven completely. We would say نبیﷺ the best of creation or the highest of prophets of Allahﷺ And he is standing in prayer until his feet are swollen. His legs are swelling. And when he's asked why. He says should I not be a thankful servant. Can I not show thankfulness to Allahﷺ. Now I want to pause here and ask a question to myself and yourselves. Look at what he says is thankfulness to Allahﷺ. It did not make him arrogant at all. No did he said you know what I pray to Hajjud. So I'm a big deal. اعود بالله. That is your secret between you and Allahﷺ. But what it did doﷺ. He was the most humble person. He spoke to everyone. He spoke to them calm. And Allahﷺ describes him as حریصٌ علیكم. He was very concerned about the turning of the people towards the goodness. And he always seized every opportunity to express the goodness to the people. You know what here is the path. You will see it not only or you will hear about it. You won't only hear about it. But you will see it also enshrined in the life of Muhammadﷺ. So the same applies to us. If we work on our own qualities at night we are praying. We develop our link with Allahﷺ.  I am concerned about the non-Muslims as well. I am concerned about their well-being in every single way. I need to be. Why? Because I am a Muslim. And this would make me reach out to them in so many different ways. Subhanallah. So many different ways. And I always look at ourselves here. And I say to myselfﷺ the bulk of us may be all of us. In fact I could comfortably say all of us. At some stage our forefathers, somewhere down the line. Our forefathers were not Muslim. Do you know that? They accepted Islam. Even if someone has some of their forefathers out in the Sahabaﷺ. But the Sahabaﷺ also accepted Islam. They were not Muslim in before Islam came obviously. They accepted the Deen. Now what I am saying is because if we were to treat every non-Muslim as a potential Muslim through out our lives, whether they accepted it in our lives or not. And whether they accepted it before they died or not. If we treated them as potential Muslims, we would solve the problems of the globe by the will of Allahﷺ. And we need to make sure we understand. A person dislikes a bad habit. A person dislikes for example that which is wrong. But the individual we always have hope. Subhanallah. There is a distinct difference in the Sharia. Distinct difference in Islam between the individual and the act. We need to understand this. And we need to constantly have hope if I were to make mention for example of a person. Just for example if I were to say a name of someone who has caused a lot of harm to you. Part of your weakness would be to say this man is evil, no hope. We are closing the chapter on him and he is going to help. That's part of our weakness. But the character of a Muslim would always have hope. Look at Muhammadﷺ. If you were to ask yourself who was or give me a name of a person who harmed him the most in the early stages. I am sure you would agree with me the name Abu Jahl. I am sure you would agree Abu Jahl. What was he? He was one of the most outspoken, most hard core, hard line enemies of Islam. Who actually went out of his way to cause bodily harm. A physical harm to Muhammadﷺ. After that Muhammadﷺ says Allahumma عز الإسلام بئے احد العمرائین. Oh Allah! Grant strength to Islam through the acceptance of Islam of one of these two. Who are those two? The two main enemies. Allahu Akbar. The reason why I make mention of this is where is the character of Muhammadﷺ. And where is our character and conduct yet we call ourselves good Muslims. I am a good Muslimﷺ. I am really a good Muslim. And the way you look at others is actually the sign of a person who does not know the sunnah or the lifestyle of Muhammadﷺ. We have a bad habit of picking that which suits us. We have a bad habit of taking that which suits us. And if everyone takes that which suits them, then we have a whole lot of people collectively. We might come up with good character and conduct as a collective group but individually each one is lacking in something or another. May Allahﷺ help us to grasp what is being said. And may He help us to strengthen ourselves. And may He help us to help one another. My brothers and sisters, this is why if you want paradise you need to develop your link with Allah.  If you take a look at these two terms that I made mention of in the hadith whereﷺ is being asked of the qualities of those getting into paradise. He makes mention of حقوق اللہی the rights of Allahﷺ on one hand. That which you owe Allah, your link with Allahﷺ. And حقوق العباد the right of the worshippers of Allahﷺ over you. You need to be conscious of it. Make life easy for others. We have sometimes a stressful life solely because I am a man who is not faithful. Solely because I am a man not faithful to Allahﷺ not faithful to those around me. Or a woman who perhaps has a tongue. May Allahﷺ protect us. That is a sharp tongue. Sometimes it happens to the men, sometimes women. It's not particular or peculiar to any gender in particular. But it happens to anyone and everyone. We need to become conscious. How do I talk to people? What is my treatment of my family members? My spouse? How much time do I spend with my spouse and family members? Remember. Rasulullahﷺ always showed that he was the best to his wives and family members. And he actually says خیروکم لئے آہلی خیروکم لئے آہلی. The best from amongst you those who are best to your family members. Your spouses, your children and so on. Your parents have time for them. Make the time. Many of us think for a moment that we are brilliant Muslims. When last did you speak to your mother? Oh that hag. اسطغفر اللہ. دا حولہ والا قوتن. Did you hear that? اعوذو بلہ. اللہ never make us utter those dirty words. No matter what. Even if you have a difference of opinion with her. Remember be respectful. Because that is the help of Allah سبحانہ وتعالہ comes to those who are kind to their parents. So much so even if they are not Muslim. The Quran invites you and instructs you to be kind to them. We may not want to obey an instruction that contradicts the law of Allah سبحانہ وتعالہ. In fact we are not supposed to do that. Anything else? Be kind. Remember fulfill your parent non-Muslim. They ask you please can you help me. I've got a doctor's appointment. Can you take me to the hospital? You don't say that's a non-Muslim man. I'm not supposed to take them to the hospital. Why? Why should I do? No it is your duty, your obligation. In fact you are sinful if you don't reach out to them in that way. اللہ سبحانہ وتعالہ grant us an understanding. So sometimes the warped understanding that we seem to be getting. Of the deen.  When it comes to the treatment of those who don't follow the thin line that I may be upon. We should know we are not upon any line. We should know that. We are actually doing something that is far away from the teachings of the deen. Because my concern should be how best can I reach out to the rest of my brothers and sisters in humanity. You know one day I was seated and probably I may end with this story. I was seated not a long time ago with some people and a waiter passed at a restaurant. And I said brother can you please get me some water. And the man went and MashaAllah he brought back water and whatever happened. And the brother sitting with me told me how could you call him brother. How could you call him brother.  I don't want to get into big debates. It depends what you are referring to when you say a brother. What if he's your blood brother and he's not a Muslim. He's still your brother. But he's your blood brother. So it depends what you're meaning. There are people who are my brothers and sisters in faith. And there are people who are my brothers and sisters in humanity. We cannot deny that. The Quran acknowledges it. Listen to what Allah says regarding the prophets of Allah. Take a look at one example. اِذ قَالَ لَهُمْ اَخُوْهُمْ صَالِحٌ اَلَا تَتَّقُونْ اِذ قَالَ لَهُمْ اَخُوْهُمْ لُوطٌ اَلَا تَتَّقُونْ اللہ سپیقس of the messengers when they told their people. Who are these people. They were people who rejected the message of these messengers. But Allah says their brother Saleh told them. Why don't you fear Allah. Are you not going to be conscious of Allah. Their brother Lut told them. May peace be upon the messengers. And may Allah's peace and blessings be upon us all. Their brother told them. Their brother in what. These people rejected the message. Brother in humanity. They were part of the same community. They may have even had links of blood. Subhan Allah. So let's not have this notion that everyone else who perhaps doesn't tread on the hairline that I am treading upon is not even fit to be called my brother or my sister. Because it all depends what you mean by that. If they are not your brother in faith. They may be your brother in humanity or your sister. May Allah سبحانہ وتعالہ help us to reach out to others. Reach out to yourselves. I don't have much time today. But by the will of Allah سبحانہ وتعالہ I hope that the little bit that I have said would actually be of help to us. My brothers and sisters to quickly recap. May we work and I call on yourselves and myself. May we work as hard as we can on our tongues. And on our behavior. Our link with Allah. Develop it for the sake of Allah. It's your link with your maker. Develop it. You need to. It's about time you did. Improve yourself and develop your link with others. With human beings at large. I know of so many people that I've interacted with that have had nothing to do with Islam. Sometimes they've disliked Islam. And yet after interacting with them they've changed their attitude. A call that we got from a certain woman a lady and I don't know exactly who she was. But she contacted us at the office and said you know what I always believed Islam was barbaric. And it was preached hate and it did this and it did that. But after having seen what you do and after having seen the articles in the paper. You know we have certain articles we put in the paper every week back at home. And after having seen this and that I just want you to know that through the effort that you guys have made. I now acknowledge that this is a heavenly religion. That's all. So she did not accept the faith of Islam. But the minimum is the enmity she had was actually decreased through knowledge. And this is why I firmly believe that a lot of the times people have this notion through ignorance. Which is wrong about others. May Allah ﷻ help us cure it through knowledge and through knowledge. May Allah ﷻ open every door of ours. My 25 minutes up Habibi. We thank Allah ﷻ.


and now the stupid recording now who is recording Brian took over I think good morning oh that's why it's not working thanks Brian it's like why can't I play most all right I've got over yes thanks thanks for pointing that out Gary totally utterly failed this morning all right I got minutes I got minutes so if you guys want to get going go for it are you going to display the agenda but at least we can see that Ry is a critical resource if I have been prepped if I have been prepped everything would have been just fine that's just me trying to scramble it you know because I have things I do he has things he does cross training is good yeah well it's just I'm quite entertained by this whole process this is very sad Gary Brian Brian can you stop the recording and restart because I don't think anybody's going to care to listen to any of these I think they might are now this banter is might be more exciting than the rest of the everybody will be as easily entertained as you Gary sorry it's okay we'll all fix it in post yeah we can do that I think I think you're passing judgments on the on the general population and underestimating them all right Gary one of those speakers to keep them occupied yeah Gary you must be really born in quarantine who is sharing looks like a rune is sharing a rune I don't know that this is intentional Dave can you share if not I'll share okay I'm trying to get back into the meeting six seven oh my goodness and I will I didn't okay share screen desktop I should hide my chat where I'm like talking about how you guys are terrible we're not seeing it can you share just the agenda there you go yep thank you but just the right I got you don't don't don't don't overwhelm Dave he's you can only handle one second of time right now it's too small Christmas available how's that oh yeah here we go small for Chris I can guarantee yes please thank you about Gary he's got old eyes no Gary oh don't just real you are okay enough guys let's be serious it's 10 minutes let's get started how's that we get everyone this is the weekly TSC call this is a public call everybody is welcome to join this name or contribute there are two requirements though you should be aware of the antitrust policy the notice of which is display and this is the hyperledger call of conduct which basically requires that you behave decently and participate in a positive manner so with that being taken care of we can move on to the agenda I don't have any announcement but I wanted to give everybody an opportunity to announce anything that would be relevant is there any announcement okay hearing none we'll just move on there were three quality reports submitted thank you for this looking through them I didn't see any questions or issues that the projects wanted to raise so I will just broadly ask if there's anything that TSC members or the people who have actually submitted the reports want to raise now if not we can just move on thank you there's one thing that I will point out is you know related to the discussion that we just started regarding the maintainers and the status of the implementation of the repo structure that we have agreed to we might want to add that to the quality reports and try to see if we should have some kind of like I don't call that like monitoring activity with regard to the compliance level of the project with the policies that we set forth but let's not get more into the detail of that now let's move on we have one major agenda item for today's call we have received officially a proposal for a new project it's actually graduation from a lab that has been existence for a while I was told by Fujitsu and Accenture and so hot are you the one who's going to present this I think we have a bunch of people that are going to present okay I'll take I'll let you take the lead and then you can you guys can figure out how you want to proceed sure well I think we have we have some slides that we can share if people want to see sort of an overview and summary of the project does that sound like a reasonable way to go awesome all right let me share my screen if that's okay thank you just to make sure we have everything we have everybody on yeah all yours are great Peter and Fujimoto son and Takuchi son are you guys all there yeah looks like we all know I think you're right okay can everybody see my screen yeah yes we can so so we'll start by offering some sort of background and motivation and solution details of what we're trying to do I think Dan O'Prey first put it this way at least to me that that we sort of live in it was briefly distorted but I could hear him up until you stopped him yeah hard can you repeat the last 10 15 seconds yes sure sorry and please feel free to interrupt with questions or comments or you know if my zoom has gone out and I'm just talking to myself in the room so today we live in a world of many networks and I believe it was Dan O'Prey who first coined this term at least when I heard it and this this has a lot of implications so here's an example of some sort of financial network today that you might see it's very simplified but the key point is all of these networks need to communicate with each other right everybody needs to share information my database needs to talk to your database and so forth well what happens when we throw blockchain in here as the HGF participants heard you know we might replace a lot of these databases with blockchain what happens then well now we replace these sort of networks with blockchains but you know we can't just run everything on one blockchain you know different blockchains are going to have different requirements so some blockchains might need you know a plug-in for distributed identity others might need scalability some you know blockchains or functionality is going to need you know extra cryptography some blockchains are going to need very high transaction speeds legacy compatibility is a big and unfortunate thing that I think a lot of people you're all distorted yes now I think we can I don't know what the issue is I'm sorry it sounds like you're swallowing your microphone sometimes that's unfortunate good it sounds good no great so anyway all of these blockchains making up all of these networks are going to have different requirements and so sometimes sort of conflicting requirements even so we've come to the conclusion that there is going to be no sort of one blockchain to rule them all and we can't just sort of dump everything on a single blockchain so with this in mind sort of a key facet of this diagram of how our networks are going to have to work together are these connections between blockchains and this is where we get into the motivation for the biff so the blockchain integration framework intends to define I guess a communication model to enable blockchain ecosystems to exchange any data or assets independent of the platform and without a middleman if needed and this is kind of the overall mission so before we go further some sort of basic core principles about this we want maximum possible plugability and generality so we've designed everything to be plug-and-play as much as possible this is incredibly important for something like interoperability when you know you're going to your whole point is to work with everything we don't want to have to go through a trust and intermediate blockchain or middleman if we don't have to there are some cases where we might absolutely have to but when we can avoid it we don't want to we don't want users to have to use tokens for transactions so many many public solutions in the interoperability space or token faced we found that users and customers we lost you again you swallowed your mic it almost sounds like there's some interference or something yeah are they using a wireless mic no can you guys hear me yeah we can hear you now said i was muted by the host i'm using a wired mic i don't know what the issue is okay i i muted you briefly the non-muted yeah sorry about that i guess my internet's just flaky i think everybody out here in california is on zoom no it's weird like crossover from another like like it sounds like when you're like driving between two radio zones and like you get over interference from a different radio station that's that's weird i'm sorry all right we'll keep going so i was just going through some core principles so i said we don't want to have users to have to use tokens and we don't want to have sort of a mandatory toll booth so we don't want to require operators to make money by taking a cut of transactions so you know you should be able to build a solution where sort of the incentives uh ensure that transactions will be handled appropriately so there are a lot of existing solutions in the interoperability space but sort of no existing solution really satisfies the the core principles we mentioned earlier so we needed a new way of essentially doing interoperability and so this you know we we talked from my perspective you know we came to this conclusion and then we we talked to some extension people and you know they had also come to a similar conclusion so once we realized that we both wanted to open source our solutions we decided it would be more efficient in the long run to work together so we currently have two working code bases one from each company and we're in the process of merging the code to build sort of a best of both world solution that gives us all of the use cases of both code bases so now i'm going to turn the presentation over to peter peter are you there do you want to uh do you want to take over from this slide yeah i can well i would ask does jimoto approach this on one team present peter you're super quiet all right well i guess i will stop sharing them and let you take over from here peter as well second i'll probably switch your microphone okay apparently the the first thing we all need to do is get new microphones let me know when you're ready peter did i cut out again no peter is on mute no we're just not quite tired of listening to you yet heart that's a surprise what if you multicast out your packets to all of us and then we'll randomly decide one of us will order those packets and then send them out oh that would be interesting does peter know he's on mute i don't know can you hear me better now yeah that's much better all right i'm gonna stop sharing peter and let you take over the slides from here okay go ahead okay we can see your screen can you see the slide yes yep go ahead all right so i'll start off with our short list design principles there's a much longer list in the white paper that we'll have a link for at the end or link to you so white support we wanted to support all the ledgers possible because that's pretty much the bad rock of the interoperability solution everybody will ask us the support is the support that and we want the answer to be either yes of course or well yes but we definitely or no but we definitely could this also leads to the plug in architecture that we are designing which i'll talk about much more in detail in the later slides so here i'll just mention that it's all about flexibility prevent double spending very applicable it's very important to say very applicable because we've concluded that there are edge cases that are simply out of scope not just for us but pretty much for anybody or anything who tries to prevent double spending when integrating different ledgers there's a little longer essay about this in the questions answers that we have produced as part of the feedback i believe that was already published by heart earlier now the gist of it is that everything's fine with prevent double spending if you have two permissioned ledgers for example but if you have one permission ledger and one permission less ledger with let's say proof of work as the consensus then you can never really be sure if there's going to be let's say a 51 percent attack on that ledger that completely erases all transaction history now you know people can always argue what's the probability of this happening or why would someone actually just completely erase the ledger but nevertheless it's possible so that's why it's important to say that we aim to prevent double spending very applicable preserving ledger features is about making sure that we don't just or we don't constrain the end users to this stripped down bare bones feature set that is the common denominator between the ledgers that they are transacting with because integration is nice but you also probably want to enjoy some of the higher level features uh and obviously sometimes these features we conflict with each other in you know ledger a and ledger p that you're transacting with but there can be a good enough abstraction on outside that allows the use of as many features as possible we just have to work on it and i will again invoke the plugin architecture here which we are going to depend on a lot to actually deliver on this design principle and then last but not least low impact we do not want some really heavy-handed solution as heart mentioned as well we do not want to be a middleman we want to be as easy to set up as possible and you do not want to have any unintended side effects so one of our main components in the system architecture is validators these are essentially validator nodes similar to uh normal nodes of a ledger or peers however you call them but uh they have the extra added capabilities uh injected from the framework which allow for signature validation so the validator nodes have a responsibility of being able to communicate with a specific ledger that the framework is connecting and i already mentioned the services that it provides we call them foreign validators uh from the perspective that a validator is able to give you an attestation of a certain state record of a given ledger and another question that came up was about corda so i wanted to stop here and and also mention here what i answered there which was that uh we tried to make very few assumptions about what a given ledger is and we try to keep the abstraction very simple so that as many of the ledgers as possible can be really fit in that definition because obviously if some ledger is so different from our abstraction then we just won't be able to work with it and so pretty much the only thing that we assume about a ledger is that it is a database with read write capabilities and with uh the capabilities they execute custom code uh you know aka the contracts and their custom code can also read and write the data so as long as you bring us a ledger that is capable of doing these things which is pretty much every ledger uh then our design the core of the design should allow us to write a so-called connector plugin for that ledger and uh all the higher level features that you may have are something that the other types of plugins that we have or will have in the future will be able to work with but the core functionality to be able to produce signatures for attestations of the states of the ledgers and to submit transactions to the ledgers ledgers so those core functionalities will operate as long as your ledger is a read write database with custom code execution capabilities some technical info about a project we use java scripts more specifically type script we type script we transpile from try to type script to java script and run it on Node.js but also planning on having a client-side SDK uh which actually should be universal in the sense that it runs on Node.js and the browser as well the plugin interface should is not constrained to java script only eventually it will be able to accept calls from any language without you actually having to write bindings for that language and a good idea we've seen elsewhere for this type of support is the go plugin which allows you to start your main application and then launch a grpc client and launch a binary which is the plugin which will host a grpc server and communication will be established between the two over http or more specifically grpc and this way your plugin can implement a well-defined interface api interface that is callable by the main code base and it does not matter what your language is what your choice language is for the plugin this is just for reference this is one of the many uh use cases that we've documented in the whitepaper i'll keep mentioning the whitepaper because that's our biggest uh most standalone document we have so i recommend that if you want to have a read then that's where to go basically what you see here is uh the biff api standing between the end users and the ledgers and giving you this common abstraction layer for those users to interact with the ledgers through this shows an idea of how the layers of the architecture are and this should give you an idea of what it is that you need to implement yourself if you are let's say in a an enterprise environment where you are an application developer who is tasked with writing an application against biff that uh makes some business case reality so the idea is that you deploy biff as a software and you either use the plugins that are already there or if you have some ledger that is not supported you can write your own plugin but the happy path is that you just clone biff from github you deploy it and then you start writing your own application where our SDK is a dependency and uh you just point that to your own biff deployment wherever that server cluster of servers is running and then you're good to go so under the hood this is uh going back to what the validator node is there's uh on chain logic which means that that's uh code that runs in smart contracts that we deploy through the chain this is uh why i mentioned in the beginning that the abstraction of ours needs custom code execution basically we put the public keys onto your smart contract as part of its state and then we use that to validate signatures so that uh the attestations can be created about the ledger's state and then on the off chain logic that's where it's really just a REST API with some endpoints on the validator node itself it's just a web application basically which is what you use or leverage to to build your business application that talks to it exporting requests means that you can send the REST API request to the server saying that you want uh let's say a block worth of data or some kind of state data on your ledger or export it to another ledger and then it gets copied over and you will have cryptographic proof from the original ledger that this was indeed the state on that ledger and now it has been copied over to the other ledger the plugin architecture so this is the backbone of it or because uh always the biggest question is well how do you know that this design is actually going to be worth anybody's time how do you know this will work in a few years and new ledgers come out with different ideas so my or our answer to that is nobody really knows the future but uh we are doing our best to prepare for it we really ask everyone to chime in on especially this because we believe in this particular sense we are doing the best we can to prepare for that unknown future and so the line is we want software that bends not breaks then major technological shifts occur and so far for this uh we have plugins or plans for plugins I should say with identity certificate authority ledger connector and storage now the storage is a little bit different from the ledger connector because you may want to store um certain metadata that you don't actually want to put on the ledger because maybe it's expensive to store data on your ledger or maybe it would be a performance bottleneck um you know maybe you're running a financial institution and there's some metadata about metadata about each transaction that you want saved and you want it in a database but you don't want it on the ledger so for that we also want a storage plugin separate from the ledger connector which at first sight it may look like they are kind of redundant of each other and the plugins are loaded at one time so that there's complete flexibility about how to uh compose your deployment meaning that before you deploy or before you actually start your deployment you have to provide the list of plugin IDs that you want loaded for the different purposes that are available and uh now I'm going into the open source ideas that we have the important thing to mention here is that if you want something supported by BEF you don't necessarily have to even come and talk to us like ever because with the previously mentioned mechanism what you can do is really just start your own GitHub repository uh have a look at our interface definition for that set plugin and start writing code and publish it put it on npm as a package for example and then the next thing you can do is just install that package specified to be loaded and used and as long as it doesn't actually crash your code that is then it should just work that's the idea and we really hope that this will make it easier to spring up a community of developers who look at this and say oh that's great because if I need something urgently I can just write it myself and I know from experience personal experience that there are people like that it's just not the majority but there are always people like that in the community and if you enable them they can contribute greatly yeah but you really have to give them the opportunity to do that and that's what we're trying to do okay so if you ask me what about supporting xyz this is always the workflow that my head or my mind will execute if there's a plugin already then good then you just use the plugin that's what I will say I will point you to the plugin if there isn't one then I will ask myself okay is this an aspect that's already pluginified such as the connectors storage or or is it something completely new but if it's an aspect that we already support via plugins then I'll just say well go implement your plugin and then use that plugin and you don't have to wait for my approval ever just do it and then there's the edge case which hopefully will happen rarely if we get the initial core design right uh so the edge case is that you asked for something that has no plugin to it and it's also just hard-coded in our core design instead of being pluggable so that's going to launch a review process on our side saying should we allow this to be pluginified and then you can submit a pull request to the actual biff repository and in this case you will have to go through you know the usual mundane review cycles everybody chiming in saying this is not right that's not right how about that but if you persist and everybody's happy and we approve it then we merge that in and then you can implement your plugin based on the interface that you just contributed to biff and then use that plugin but hopefully this is uh you know less than one percent of the cases that's what we are aiming to do yes I think I already talked about the storage plugin uh yes I'm just supposed to mention here that again it's a really really simple interface and I just wanted to show this as an example that this is how this is a plugin definition so when I say go and implement the plugin I really just mean go and write maybe a few lines of code or maybe a few hundred lines of code that implements an interface similar to this of course it's going it may be a different interface depending on what is it what plugin are you implementing and uh yeah so the storage plugin again I kind of already said this I just forgot that we had this slide here uh it's important to mention you know that we have two code bases and the fugeetzy code base called connection chain that's what already supports uh escrow moving of assets so the storage plugin idea actually came when we looked at each other's code base and I also wanted to emphasize that we are not running our own ledger we focus on integration not being a ledger of ledgers and yes this is the other design principle about preserving the ledger features and a great example is for example if you are doing a transaction between base even fabric and both of them have some sort of support for uh private transactions you know fabric has those uh private channels and uh basically have something as well I just forgot the name but the point is technically they are different features you know you cannot just put together a fabric and a basic ledger and they won't just be able to talk to each other but since functionally on a higher level of abstraction it's they are doing the same thing with private transactions uh that means that we could come up with the right uh interface definitions for that and allow a transaction to be private on both sides leveraging the different features that these ledgers offer now this is uh obviously much more complicated behind the scenes as I sounded it make it sound in my example uh but this is just the idea I'm not saying that we always support this just that this is how we are planning to implement it in the future and we'll just fix the gimmicks that come up in the meantime as we go hopefully and another important thing is uh the transaction proposal protocol that we have it we really wanted to be upfront about certain risks so that there's no unintended side effects this also goes back to double spending if uh you are on a permission ledger and someone proposes a transaction to you and they are on a permission less ledger with proof of work then we want you to see this right at the beginning when they propose a transaction so that you don't get uh duped into doing a transaction that you thought was safe in the sense that there is no double spending because we guarantee it but then there actually was no guarantee like that and then uh bad things happen so we want the protocol to do its best to push this out to the edge to the person who's making the decision to transact or not and uh the same can be said about private transactions as well just to get back to my example if only one side supports private transactions then there is absolutely no reasonable expectation of that transaction actually being private because you know that on the other side everything will be visible Peter I'm sorry I mean we are getting close to the end of the call and I'd like to keep some times at least the beginning for conversation so oh oh I'm sorry I kind of I kind of get lost in time though then uh I think I can just stop because most of it I already said performance yes performance I just want to say we don't want to be the bottleneck so if there's two ledgers and they're both very fast we want to be the fastest among those two ledgers so that they both can run at maximum speed uh this is our proposed position of the greenhouse as a project but we are absolutely open to feedback on that because uh we could explain it away in any direction really we have a road map that is strongly subject to change and we have some links and open source communities that's and ordinary questions all right thank you so do you see members in equations yeah this is Angelano um so would I would I actually personally would I also expecting from uh such a presentation was maybe I'm just biased and I might be totally wrong um I was expecting something so what is a blockchain is a system to build trust so bitcoin is the clear example here so it starts from the starting from minimal assumptions so in bitcoin what happens that you trust the crypto and on top of crypto you are building a payment system so trust in a payment system so now you are telling you you describe the system and you never talked about trust so and so if I want to combine multiple blockchain with their view of trust what it means to build a new level of trust this I was expecting actually like something like this from an interoperability project because there was what we are talking about yeah with the rest dpi gpi grpc these are all beautiful aspects I don't want to judge on this on this part but looking at blockchain maybe you had in the slide and we didn't have time to to see that part but I really would like to see what it means to build trust in this setting well my feedback to that or answer to that is that we intentionally did not speak that much of trust because in a sense you have to trust the organization that runs all biff so it doesn't matter if you individually trust the ledgers it's not going to be enough to transact between them you will have to trust this third party whoever that may be who runs the software that in that performs the integration between those so trust in that sense is sort of implied but it's a very long topic and I also want to and I also want to allow the other team members to chime in if they want to yeah sure I'll chime in so basically the idea here is that is that the trust is whatever you want it to be you know we want this to be as configurable as possible so I mean our basic philosophy is that we cannot say what your trust requirements are whether you know you're on this ledger are you going to trust someone on this other ledger you're exactly right that angelo that we probably should have given some examples but we wanted this to be sort of as up to the user as possible as part of the biff we don't want to dictate trust relationships between people we want them to be able to configure biff to whatever trust relationships already exist did they answer your question but definitely I would I would appreciate a lot if you can put also examples of this thing because you know why every time you see oh we'll we will like to I understand the point of seeing we want to be as general as possible but you know these are very complex system and if you leave the freedom at the such a freedom in the wrong hands this can be used I mean the problem people might believe that they are combining the pieces in the right way and that can be a total failure so sometimes maybe less generality more application scoping and say oh you know what if you have a if you have a a chain with this trust assumption another chain with this trust assumption or out of this you can build that is a new level of trust assumption that can provide an application on this level again the example of bitcoin is beautiful you start from trust in ecdSA and hash functions and on top of this you build a decentralized payment system on internet I mean which is a it's a great actually it's a massive achievement the guy who designed this would deserve at least a touring award so you see the you see the point that would give more confidence also in the fact that the framework can really deliver something useful but I really appreciate it really if I can no help also I would never definitely look at the document I think it's a very it's a very very interesting topic and we definitely have to as a TSC member I would like to to push for it as well so following up on this I wanted to get back to a little bit what Dan brought up in the on the mailing list which has to do with okay you have a lab today you guys brought both you know a bunch of code and so what is the status and I understand the idea of you know heart was quite frank about saying well the idea of part of the idea of bringing it up at a project level would be to have more exposure and bring more people in but beyond that I mean what has been basically achieved in the lab can you tell us that Can I talk a little from the Fujitsu? My name is Shinro Fujimato and to be honest I would like to have more resources for the collaboration since that we are certain the environment like we are restricted to the habit of opportunity to meet each other more closely so the at least we need to the mailing list to exchange the information or discussions nowadays we are doing the same things on the chat but it is very difficult to develop the or merging the code so the we need to do some the well openness for the development but that is more easier when we authorize other official project so that is my personal hope to be an official project thank you all right thank you I'm not sure I understood though you're saying as a project you'll be able to cooperate more easily I don't see that so I mean I think one of the things was we're doing a big refactoring of the architecture right to sort of merge everything together and one of the reasons we did this was to sort of get everybody's attention we know there are other people in hyper ledger that are interested in interoperability and we want to sort of bring everybody to the table and get feedback on our architecture and and everything like that and make sure it's make make sure it potentially works you know for everybody that might be interested rather than having sort of participants trickle in where we have to do major refactorings every time somebody comes in so that was a big motivation and so I had a question actually is the is the idea that if I have a beef in place my application will interact with all the networks only through this beef or is that something that I add to my application to interact with other networks so basically I could be a fabric application but at times I want to go talk to a Bezu network and then I have beef that I can rely on leverage to go talk to Bezu more in a more standard way or does beef become my kind of like higher level in which I interact with all the networks I want to use can I speak yeah well I think that we can develop your own application for the particular purposes right this is a kind of the template for the each use cases so if you are building to the shopping cart type of the application that you will use to the this integration framework as the infrastructure but if you need to do some other use case like a supply chain management they need to be you need to the another system using to the same integration framework but that service will be the running independently so the this is kind of rivalry type of the project so the we can minimize the such a building cost for the each application as a secure that is that is my assumption for the use of the project to resolve the derivatives is that answering your questions yeah I think so thanks we only have two minutes left I wanted to check that you know if there's any other members who have burning questions and maybe you know obviously we don't have time to close this today we'll follow up next week if it's possible but if there's anything people want to get that the the requesters could work on you know along the lines of what Angela asked for he wants more information than the trust assumptions and so is there anything else yeah we'd be happy to answer any questions via email or rocket chat or or whatever you like I know a lot of people have been asking in chat and I've sort of fallen behind on answering questions but if if you have questions please please follow up all right thanks heart and thanks to the team I mean for helping out and everybody to join in unfortunately we're out of time so I'm going to close the call on this but we'll continue next week as heart suggests it'd be best if we could make some progress on the mailing list in the meantime so let's keep the conversation going thank you all for joining talk to you next week


And welcome to the 21 Report being held at 21 Summit in Orlando, Florida. I'm Anthony Dream Johnson, your host today, special guest host of the 21 Report, president of the Manisphere, founder of 21 Studios, the 21 Convention, the 22 Convention, the Red Man Group, and many other things. Today with me on the show is the one and only, basically the host of the show itself usually, Mr. George Bruno. Thanks, George. Thanks for coming out. Pleasure. This is my first time hosting the show. I'm really looking forward to it, to be in a different scene, got you in the hot seat. So let's talk about the event. We just had 21 Summit for the first time ever. That was a three conference through convention experience. And you've seen this conference since 2017 when you were the beard guy, as Tanner Geese called you, and as I've called you. What's it been like seeing, you know, from the first event 2017 to now 2020? I mean, this is a big difference, never mind the events in between. But 2017, that was a big event, 10-year anniversary event, three conference experience. Your thoughts? It's multifaceted. It's never been a one-trick pony, but there were people who would call this a pickup conference, how to get laid conference, conduct yourself, red pill kind of stuff. And it's so much more than that. And it has evolved into a conference for the total man, the total man. What does the average attendee, excuse me, the average potential attendee, what do they not understand about attending the conference, the experience of being here at the events? The guy who hasn't been yet, so he's not alumni, what does he miss? What do they not see through the camera? It's so much more than sitting in an audience watching a man on a stage. That's a small part of it. The dinners in the evenings, the conversations in the hallways, the connections that people make, the conversations, the challenging, the collaborations. All of that just makes it such a high quality event that men are speechless when I ask them, how do you like it?  A lot of guys will say, I'll say, so what did you think of the event? They'll say, have you got about three hours? Wow. Yeah. They can't stop talking about it. Many times they're just saying, literally, wow. And that's even the new speakers that are blown away by this. Let's talk about some of those new speakers. You actually helped bring in at least one this year, maybe a couple. I think I'd say you're responsible for at least one or maybe two or three. Talk to me about having brand new speakers here, and one in particular that you're definitely super responsible for, Michael Foster and Jesse Lee Peterson. Yes. Both Christian pastors' reverence. Yes. What's it like seeing them take the stage at 21? Jesse Lee Peterson is a controversial guy. He has a huge following. I think he is an authentic man. He's one of these guys that he is exactly the same man in person as he is on camera. He doesn't change. When he hears action, he doesn't become this character called Jesse Lee Peterson. No hesitation, either. He's just zero hesitation.  And I kind of like these guys that are kind of like zero craps given. But do it with care and concern. I could tell he's a caring man. I could tell when he shakes your hand, there's a warmth to him. There's not a hardness to him. He doesn't want to fight anymore. He wants to speak the truth. And there's a lot of, I'll tell you what, there's a lot of people that want to silence him. That's how I know he's doing the right thing. Talk to me about Michael Foster. He's someone that you mentioned to me, I think a while ago. And he was actually in our community before that man is here, but I only was lately aware of him. But you were like, this guy's got to be there. And I talked to him and went good. Yeah, Michael Foster is, he's an intellectual. He's one of the most intelligent human beings that I know. Super high IQ, super articulate, father of seven, pastor of a church, presbyterian, which is more like what I would call more orderly type of denomination. Not a lot of, as Jesse would say, Hoopin and Holler and kind of thing. But he's not afraid to mix with people who have different ideologies than him. You would think that he would be very dogmatic about things. But he's sitting there, this Christian pastor, articulate, intelligent, sitting with Jack Donovan on one side, Tanner Guzzi on the other, Coach Greg Adams here. And they're all having this incredible conversation. He's funny. He's resourceful. And I thought, like for instance, I honestly thought that he was going to be slightly more dogmatic. I didn't think he had the sense of humor. I didn't, wait, let me take that back. I didn't expect to see the sense of humor coming out of him like I did. He's a very masculine, positive and smart guy. I got that feeling, knowing him, interviewing him before on the red man group and whatnot, but meeting him in person is very apparent. He actually ended up, he's slightly regretted not speaking at the main event for men. That's what he told me. I kind of figured he could do it, but he didn't see that before attending. And then when he got here, he was like, I see. He would have received in there controversial. And he's a big guy. He's a very big guy. And one of the things that he said to me, like big physically, he's like just a giant kind of guy. And he said, he's going to spend the next year, like he said to me, you're not going to recognize me next year. He is motivated to do something about his physicality after being here. He looked at other speakers. He looked at the attendees and their appearance through the gauntlet down for him. So he's going to start working out more and doing what he has to do to optimize his entire body, which is going to help him reinvent his career, so to speak. I mean, you know, change the body and everything changes. Yeah. Yeah, your physicality is very important in life, even especially as a public speaker. I'd say people respect you a lot more, the more in shape you are and what fit you are, the better looking you are, the better groomed you are, the better style you are. That's why the 21 convention, we try to make these men the best we can. All these different ways, like you mentioned, a comprehensive, all-encompassing, I think you said. Yeah. You phrased it. And there were a lot of beards here, I noticed. Oh, yeah, a lot of beards. There's a lot of beards. Bringing back the patriarchy. Yeah. That means it requires a beard. Make beards great again. Yeah, exactly. All patriarchs have beards. Probably not all, but most should. You're right. Not all, not all, but most. Yeah, exactly. What's it like meeting women attendees? Or did you ever think there would be female attendees at a 21 Studios built event? The 22 convention. The only time I've seen women attendees here was, you know, wives. When the occasional wife would show up with a speaker. And girlfriend, sister. Yeah, that kind of thing. And to have women come here, a lot of critics said, you know, we turned in our man cards by having women here. I would say, I think my man card got a little bit stronger. As a result of that. Because women, it took a risk for a woman to come here. They didn't know. They didn't know if it was going to be four days of men mocking women. We're getting yelled at. We're getting yelled at. Yeah. And talking to them in the hallway. Wow. Let's be clear. They were literally promised mansplaining. 100% mansplaining. The mansplaining event of the century. And that's what they got. But they weren't yelled at. They weren't mocked. Yeah. It was engaging and energetic. Yeah. Especially Jesse. Especially Peterson, I'd say was the most controversial. Yes, he was. Even Michael Foster, you know, was like, whoa. You know, everyone's parent. And Steve. Steve, the dean was in there too. Yes, he was. Everybody's parent, at least one parent had said has said to a child sometime during the parenting. It's not what you say, but how you say it. And I don't think anyone changed their message. This was not red pill light. This was not going easy on women because they're women. The way we did it. I did not compromise my convictions at all. I did not go easy on women. But it was how I said it. Steve, the dean asked me, I introduced him at the 22 convention.  Basically a lot of them. Tanner and Zach, you know, handled the patriarch, but we had to kind of do the rest of them. But, you know, Steve actually asked me to, and I did introduce him as the bad cop. He said, make sure you introduce me as the bad cop.  And that's how his speech went. And it was very positive, still very good, but zero compromise.  And it was, it was, I heard some, it was fun, a lot of fun. Fun for the women and for him. It was a very, very good thing, very educational. Well, let's back up here a step.  Talk about a wild year. I mean, even before COVID, it was ready for the wild. What were your thoughts, initial reactions and thoughts when that just took off? And not just, not just as a alumni speaker, but just seeing America and American women react to that, very polarizing, obviously some, some very pro a lot, not so much. Your reactions. It was so triggering for people who are very bold online. You know, being online makes people bold. There's people that say things on Twitter that would never say things to your face. It's fake toughness. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I saw a lot of cursing going on.  It was just nonsense and projection. Yeah.  And I wasn't sure if you were going to be able to pull this off. I honestly, I don't think anyone did. Everyone saw what was going on. And I thought, okay, is this a PR stunt? Seriously, because I don't, you don't check with me to make sure things are okay before you do them. You do them.  You announce what you're going to do and then you do it. I believe in the dream. Yeah. And there's a lot of people that are sitting there scratching their heads, even in your inner circle going, oh gosh, there goes Anthony again. Truth. It's a truth. Doctors just had that experience for a long time, since 2006.  Holy cow. That's hard. Yeah. It was a great event. It was a great event. You pulled off Patriarch last year, the first one. We didn't know how that was going to go. And I had people attacking me. I had people, I had a major, you know, dropout, a dropout, one dropout speaker attacking the safety and reputation of the event. Yeah. Hotel in the suit and for that. Yeah. Saying it was unsafe to attend. These are major four or five star hotels. Yes. Crazy nonsense. Delusional garbage. But yeah, it was, it was rough. I mean, people, the Red Pill community in particular was very triggered by patriarchy because they're not comfortable with fatherhood. A lot of them. We see that. We talk about that. A lot of them are very, and it's true enough, there are dangers, you know, that we see in the, you know, for men today, obviously, you know, divorced to family custody and child custody and stuff. But I think that return, any kind of reverence or respect or inclusion or inclusive now, inclusivity in the man's sphere for patriarchy. And they just didn't want to hear it. And I'm glad, really glad we got that done. It was hard. It was difficult. Yeah. When I was interviewing Tanner and his wife, I put her on the spot and I said, what do you think of the patriarchy? Yeah. Her answer blew me away. She says, like, cherish the patriarchy. That was a perfect answer. Perfect. I could see that being a hat. Yeah. Cherish the patriarchy. Yeah, let's do it immediately. Yeah. Brian, boom. Amazing. Yes. Man. Let's, let's sidestep here. Little tangent.  60. 60, sorry. Apologies. You've been, but you're older than me basically.  You've been to many conferences more than me. Yeah. I've built them. Yeah. How does 21 Studios events, 22 convention, 21 convention, patriarch tradition, how do our events compare to other conferences, professional conferences, Christian or, you know, trade shows, whatever, how does it compare to other events you've seen in your lifetime? A highlight of most conferences, association meetings and things that I've attended in my career, literally, hundreds of them because I love going to these things and I went to a lot of them. The highlights were always what was going on, on stage. And then when people would leave the conference rooms, everyone was just quiet, going to the bathroom, getting a drink of water. There wasn't conversation going on in the hallways. There wasn't reactive, responsive conversations and the value of this, like I had said to somebody, there's the kind of speakers that fly in, speak, and then fly out. And the value of this for a new speaker is hang out with us for the full four days. You're really going to cheat yourself out of a real total experience here. When I look at like Jack Donovan who did not go on any stage, who came here and said, it was great just being here as an attendee. He didn't have to be on and he, every time I turned a corner, he was, had a group of guys around him. He was talking, he was sharing and he was floating from one stage or one auditorium to another and he loved it. And he saw a different angle this time as an attendee, as an alumni. VIP attendee or a celebrity attendee, we'll call him. Yeah. Manusura celebrity, yeah. Yes. I told him too a couple of times that I thanked him for being here just as an attendee. He wasn't speaking, but you know, it really shows it's action over words. I took it as a very big compliment, a serious compliment for him to just want to be here.  He's just an attendee, right? He's just hanging out, enjoying the conference, enjoying the experience as an attendee, primarily anyway, even if people were swarming him to get, you know, knowledge and whatnot. Yeah, it's a big compliment for someone to spend, take time out of their life. He flew in from, you know, Seattle or whatever Northwestern state. He lives in Oregon or whatever in your Portland, New Portland, right? Hashtag New Portland. Yeah. For him to fly here, it's a long flight. It's a long drive to the airport for him.  Long flight, you know, a lot of travel, days out of his life. He has a lot going on, busy dude, moving and stuff. He still came here, made it a priority. Didn't ask him to, he just did it. I think it was win-win because, I mean, he added value to the conference. Not from the stage though, from the hallways. Yeah. And then I really think he got something out of it too. I do. And he knew that, he knew he would. That's why he came. Yeah. I mean, he loves to support the event. I believe that to the bone. That's why he speaks here so many times. But yeah, it's a big compliment. He knows there's a lot of value in it, the networking, the experience. You don't know what's going to happen here. Never. All kinds of speeches and, you know, just amazing stuff, man, content. It's word change in the course of American history, I believe, slowly, but by bit. The Guzzies are talking about like the Brady Bunch, the Guzzie Bunch here, you interviewed on the show. When they leave their community out in Utah in the Mormon community that they're part of and their friends that are, I don't think all their friends are Mormon, but they leave, you know, these dedicated couples and communities that have similar values to them, they get worried about the state of America and state of the West and they should. Tanneris calls it, I think, calls it the wastelands. We live out in the wastelands. Ellie and me laugh about that, right? A lot of speakers do, because it's true. Culturally, it is like a way of saying it. It's like Mad Max out there. But this event in the Manusphere itself and in 21 Convention and 21 Summit are really just a physical manifestation of the Manusphere. It's the only long running. It's the longest running in the world by far and the biggest Manusphere event. Physically, it's ever been held and we're doing that over and over and over again 14 years. But we're pushing back hard, pushing back on multiple fronts. This is a culture war. I think we're actually winning at this point in some very important select ways, like first steps to make real change. Change you can believe in. Making women great again. Rebuilding the patriarchy. Where we have women telling you on camera, I cherish the patriarchy and they're serious about it and sincere and they can explain it. And of course, as Jesse would say, rebuilding the man at the main event. We're helping men become more masculine in very healthy, positive ways that they're getting yelled at outside this conference area that masculinity is toxic and fatherhood is useless and everybody's Homer Simpson, bumbling, fat loser, garbage. You can be strong, you can be masculine, you can be healthy, you can be positive. Masculinity is a good thing. Femininity is a good thing for the women. Yeah, it's common sense. I called it, you know, in my speech, common sense masculinity and common sense femininity. Yes. And you inspire a lot of what I do.  A lot of you give me the meme idea. A lot of the memes come from George. Steal away. But even with my keynote address, I thought it would be the ending slide. You know, hope, optimism and 100% toxic masculinity. Yeah.  A lot of final questions, one of the final questions. You've been interviewing now the 2011 report. You were interviewed on the report in 2017 by one of our guys.  It was like, I thought you would. I suspected you would. So you've been interviewing our speakers since 2018. You've done probably 80, maybe 90 interviews at this point on this show. This is almost the George Bruno show. I almost wanted to change the name. Yeah. How's that experience been? I mean, that's a lot of people to interview. A lot of men and a couple of women. Yeah, yeah. I think I decided that I wanted to have a conversation with people and not really interview. I want viewers to feel like that they're eavesdropping on a conversation between friends. So I'm not adversarial. I'm not trying to trap anyone. I'm not trying to interrogate anyone. You want them to open up them? Correct. Get ideas out. And I like to befriend them. There's, even if I get a chance to talk to somebody for an hour in the hallway, that still builds a little bit of a bridge to them. So by the time they sit in this chair, I feel like I'm talking with a friend. There are people who have been adversarial with me in the past, who I have interviewed. And I do believe that it's not my role to hammer them or belittle them. So I kill them with kindness. And I've done that with people who have been adversaries of this organization. And I will continue to kill them with kindness. Continue to do that. Sounds sad. Brutal. It is. It is. It's the opposite. It's paradoxical. It's brutal in an effective way. Yeah, it is. Final question. And you can address the camera directly on this one as I've seen you do this with so many speakers. What is your message to the Manisphere? What would you say to the Manisphere and to guide it in a, in a, in the way that you think is positive and productive for the future? This is an opportunity to do that. What would you say to the Manisphere? You know, any, any part of it that you want, the totality of it, what is your message to the Manisphere itself, the community of men and fathers? Good question. It's time to be an adult. The adult pill is the ultimate pill as far as I'm concerned. It's time to put away the baby food and the baby bottle and the diapers and stop, stop shitting yourself. Right? It's time to have some solid food and grow up and be a man. That's why we call it the Manisphere. It's not the baby spear. It's the Manisphere. It's time to grow up and be a man.  We love competition as men. That's normal. But cheap shots, that's feminine. Thug energy.  Grow up, be a man. Take the adult pill. I think that is the real red pill in my perspective. That was badass. George, thank you for becoming on the show. I appreciate it. I'm Anthony Dream Johnson, host of the 21 Report today here with George Bruno. We'll see you next time.