Welcome back everyone to the special presentation of cloud native at scale, the cube and platform nine special presentation going in and digging into the next generation super cloud infrastructure as code and the future of application development. We're here with Bic Lee who's the chief architect and co-founder of platform nine. Bic, great to see you. Cube alumni, we met at an OpenStack event in about eight years ago or later earlier when OpenStack was going great to see you and congratulations on the success of platform nine. Thank you very much. Yeah, you guys been at this for a while and this is really the year we're seeing the crossover of Kubernetes because of what happens with containers. Everyone now has realized and you've seen what Docker's doing with the new Docker, the open source Docker now just the success of containerization. And now the Kubernetes layer that we've been working on for years is coming bearing fruit. This is huge. Exactly, yes. And so as infrastructure as code comes in, we talked to Bascar talking about super cloud. I met her about the new R-lawn you guys just launched. The infrastructure as code is going to another level and it's always been DevOps, infrastructure as code. That's been the ethos. That's been like from day one developers, just code. Then you saw the rise of serverless and you see now multi-cloud around the horizon. Connect the dots for us. What is the state of infrastructure as code today? So I think I'm glad you mentioned it. Everybody or most people know about infrastructure as code but with Kubernetes, I think that project has evolved the concept even further and these days it's infrastructure as configuration. So which is an evolution of infrastructure as code. So instead of telling the system, here's how I want my infrastructure by telling it do step A, B, C and D. Instead with Kubernetes, you can describe your desired state declaratively using things called manifest resources and then the system kind of magically figures it out and tries to converge the state towards the one that you specify. So I think it's an even better version of infrastructure as code.  That's kind of where we see this going. And I like the configuration piece. Some people say composability. I mean now with open source so popular, you don't have to write a lot of code and it's code being developed. And so it's integration, it's configuration. These are areas that we're starting to see computer science principles around automation, machine learning, assisting open source because you got a lot of code. That's right. You're hearing software supply chain issues. So infrastructure as code has to factor in these new dynamics. Can you share your opinion on these new dynamics of as open source grows, the glue layers, the configurations, the integration? What are the core issues? I think one of the major core issues is with all that power comes complexity, right? So despite its expressive power, systems like Kubernetes and declarative APIs let you express a lot of complicated and complex stacks, right? But you're dealing with hundreds, if not thousands of these YAML files or resources. And so I think the emergence of systems and layers to help you manage that complexity is becoming a key challenge and opportunity in this space. I wrote a LinkedIn post today those comments about, why enterprise is the new breed? The trend of SaaS companies moving, our consumer-like thinking into the enterprise has been happening for a long time. But now more than ever, you're seeing it. The old way used to be solve complexity with more complexity and then lock the customer in. Now with open source, it's speed, simplification and integration, right? These are the new power dynamics for developers. So as companies are starting to now deploy and look at Kubernetes, what are the things that need to be in place because you have some, I won't say technical debt, but maybe some shortcuts, some scripts here that make it look like infrastructure as code. People have done some things to simulate or make infrastructure as code happen. But to do it at scale is harder. What's your take on this? What's your view? It's hard because there's a proliferation of methods, tools, technologies. So for example, today, it's very common for DevOps and platform engineering tools, I mean, sorry, teams to have to deploy a large number of Kubernetes clusters, but then apply the applications and configurations on top of those clusters. And they're using a wide range of tools to do this, right? For example, maybe Ansible or Terraform or Bash scripts to bring up the infrastructure and then the clusters and then they may use a different set of tools such as Argo CD or other tools to apply configurations and applications on top of the clusters. So you have the sprawl of tools. You also have the sprawl of configurations and files because the more objects you're dealing with, the more resources you have to manage. And there's a risk of drift that people call that where you think you have things under control, but some people from various teams will make changes here and there. And then before the end of the day, systems break and you have no idea of tracking them. So I think there's real need to kind of unify, simplify and try to solve these problems using a smaller, more unified set of tools and methodologies. And that's something that we try to do with this new project, Arlon. Yeah, so we're gonna get to Arlon and it's like I wanna get to the why Arlon. You guys announced that at ArgoCon, which was put on here in Silicon Valley at the community by in two where they had their own little day over there at their headquarters. But before we get there, Baskar, your CEO came on and he talked about SuperCloud at our inaugural event. What's your definition of SuperCloud? If you had to kind of explain that to someone at a cocktail party or someone in the industry technical, how would you look at the SuperCloud trend that's emerging has become a thing? What would be your contribution to that definition or the narrative? Well, it's funny because I've actually heard of the term for the first time today, speaking to you earlier today. But I think based on what you said, I already get kind of some of the gist and the main concepts. It seems like SuperCloud, the way I interpret that is clouds and infrastructure, programmable infrastructure, all of those things are becoming commodity in a way and everyone's got their own flavor. But there's a real opportunity for people to solve real business problems by perhaps trying to abstract away all of those various implementations and then building better abstractions that are perhaps business or application specific to help companies and businesses solve real business problems. Yeah, I remember that's a great, great definition. I remember not to date myself, but back in the old days, IBM had a proprietary network operating system, so the DEC for the mini computer vendors, DECnet and SNA respectively. But TCPIP came out of the OSI, the Open Systems Interconnect. And remember, Ethernet beat token ring out. So not to get all nerdy for all the young kids out there, just look up token ring, you'll see. You've probably never heard of it. It's IBM's connection for the internet, the layer two. Is Amazon the Ethernet, right? So TCPIP could be the Kubernetes and the containers abstraction. That made the industry completely change at that point in history. So at every major inflection point where there's been serious industry change and wealth creation and business value, there's been an abstraction somewhere. What's your reaction to that? I think a saying that's been heard many times in this industry, and I forgot who originated it, but I think the saying goes like, there's no problem that can't be solved with another layer of indirection, right? And we've seen this over and over and over again where Amazon and its peers have inserted this layer that has simplified computing and infrastructure management. And I believe this trend is going to continue, right? The next set of problems are going to be solved with these insertions of additional abstraction layers. I think that's really, it's going to continue. It's interesting, I just remember another post today on LinkedIn called the Silicon Wars AMD Stock is Down. ARM has been on a rise, we've been reporting for many years now that ARM is going to be huge, it has become true. If you look at the success of the infrastructure as a service layer across the clouds, Azure, AWS, Amazon's clearly way ahead of everybody. The stuff that they're doing with the Silicon and the physics and the atoms, you know, this is where the innovation, they're going so deep and so strong at IaaS. The more that that gets gone, they have more performance. So if you're an app developer, wouldn't you want the best performance and you'd want to have the best abstraction layer that gives you the most ability to do infrastructure as code or infrastructure for configuration, for provisioning, for managing services. And you're seeing that today with service meshes, a lot of action going on in the service mesh area in this community of KubeCon, which we'll be covering. So that brings up the whole, what's next? You guys just announced Arlon at ArgoCon, which came out of Intuit. We've had Mariana Tesla at our super cloud event, she's the CTO, you know, they're all in the cloud. So they're contributed that project. Where did Arlon come from? What was the origination? What's the purpose? Why Arlon? Why this announcement? Yeah, so the inception of the project, this was the result of us realizing that problem that we spoke about earlier, which is complexity, right? With all of this, these clouds, these infrastructure, all the variations around compute storage networks. And the proliferation of tools we talked about, the Ansibles and Terraforms and Kubernetes itself, you can think of that as another tool, right? We saw a need to solve that complexity problem, and especially for people and users who use Kubernetes at scale. So when you have hundreds of clusters, thousands of applications, thousands of users spread out over many, many locations, there needs to be a system that helps simplify that management, right? So that means fewer tools, more expressive ways of describing the state that you want, and more consistency, and that's why we built Arlon, and we built it recognizing that many of these problems or sub-problems have already been solved, so Arlon doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it instead rests on the shoulders of several giants, right? So for example, Kubernetes is one building block, GitOps and Argo CD is another one, which provides a very structured way of applying configuration, and then we have projects like Cluster API and Crossplane, which provide APIs for describing infrastructure. So Arlon takes all of those building blocks and builds a thin layer which gives users a very expressive way of defining configuration and desired state, so that's kind of the inception. And what's the benefit of that? What does that give the developer or the user in this case? The developers, the platform engineer, team members, the DevOps engineers, they get ways to provision, not just infrastructure and clusters, but also applications and configurations. They get a system for provisioning, configuring, deploying, and doing lifecycle management in a much simpler way, okay? Especially, as I said, if you're dealing with a large number of applications. So it's like an operating fabric, if you will, for them. Okay, so let's get into what that means for up above and below this abstraction or thin layer. Below is the infrastructure, we talked a lot about what's going on below that, above are workloads, at the end of the day, I talked to CXOs and IT folks that are now DevOps engineers, they care about the workloads, and they want the infrastructure's code to work, they want to spend their time getting in the weeds, figuring out what happened when, someone made a push that happened, or something happened, they need observability, and they need to know that it's working. That's right. And here's my workloads running effectively. So how do you guys look at the workload side of it? Because now you have multiple workloads on these fabric. Right, so workloads, so Kubernetes has defined kind of a standard way to describe workloads. And you can tell Kubernetes, I want to run this container this particular way, or you can use other projects that are in the Kubernetes cloud native ecosystem, like Knative, where you can express your application in more at a higher level, right? But what's also happening is, in addition to the workloads, DevOps and platform engineering teams, they need to very often deploy the applications with the clusters themselves. Clusters are becoming this commodity, it's becoming this host for the application, and it kind of comes bundled with it in many cases. It's like an appliance, right? So DevOps teams have to provision clusters at a really incredible rate, and they need to tear them down. Clusters are becoming more... It's coming like an EC2 instance, spin up a cluster where people use words like that. That's right. And before Arlon, you kind of had to do all of that using a different set of tools, as I explained. So with Arlon, you can kind of express everything together. You can say, I want a cluster with a health monitoring stack and a logging stack and this ingress controller, and I want these applications and these security policies. You can describe all of that using something we call the profile, and then you can stamp out your applications and your clusters and manage them in a very... So it's actually standard that creates a mechanism. It's standardized declarative kind of configurations, and it's like a playbook, you just deploy it. Now, what's there is between, say, a script? Like I have scripts, I could just automate scripts. Yes, this is where that declarative API and infrastructure as configuration comes in, right? Because scripts, yes, you can automate scripts, but the order in which they run matters, right? They can break, things can break in the middle, and sometimes you need to debug them, whereas the declarative way is much more expressive and powerful. You just tell the system what you want and then the system kind of figures it out and there are these things called controllers, which will in the background reconcile all the state to converge towards your desired state. It's a much more powerful, expressive, and reliable way of getting things done. So infrastructure as configuration is built kind of on, it's a super set of infrastructure as code, because you need infrastructure as code, but then you can configure the code by just saying do it. You're basically declaring and saying go do that. That's right. Okay, so cloud native at scale, take me through your vision of what that means. Someone says, hey, what does cloud native at scale mean? What's success look like? How does it roll out in the future as you, not future, next couple of years. I mean, people are now starting to figure out, okay, it's not as easy as it sounds. Kubernetes has value. We're going to hear this year at KubeCon a lot of this. What does cloud native at scale mean? Yeah, there are different interpretations, but if you ask me, when people think of scale, they think of a large number of deployments, right? Geographies, many, supporting thousands or tens or millions of users, there's that aspect of scale. There's also an equally important aspect of scale, which is also something that we try to address with R on, and that is just complexity for the people operating this or configuring this, right? So in order to describe that desired state and in order to perform things like maybe upgrades or updates on a very large scale, you want the humans behind that to be able to express and direct the system to do that in relatively simple terms, right? And so we want the tools and the abstractions and the mechanisms available to the user to be as powerful but as simple as possible. So there's, I think there's going to be a number and there have been a number of CNCF and cloud native projects that are trying to attack that complexity problem as well. And R-Lon kind of falls in that category. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot, we've got KubeCon coming up and obviously this will be shipping this series up before. What do you expect to see at KubeCon this year? What's the big story this year? What's the most important thing happening? Is it in the open source community and also within a lot of the people jockeying for leadership? And there was a lot of projects and still some white space in the overall systems map about the different areas, get runtime and there's availability in all these different areas. What's the, where's the action? Where's the smoke? Where's the fire? Where's the peace? Where's the tension? Yeah, so I think one thing that has been happening over the past couple of KubeCon's and I expect to continue and that is the word on the street is Kubernetes is getting boring, right? Which is good, right? Boring means simple. Well, Well, maybe. Yeah. Invisible. No drama, right? So the rate of change of the Kubernetes features and all that has slowed, but in a positive way, but there's still a general sentiment and feeling that there's just too much stuff. If you look at a stack necessary for hosting applications based on Kubernetes, they're just still too many moving parts, too many components, right? Too much complexity. I go, I keep going back to the complexity problem. So I expect KubeCon and all the vendors and the players and the startups and the people there to continue to focus on that complexity problem and introduce further simplifications to the stack. Yeah. Vic, you've had a storied career, VMware, over decades with them, I've been with them for 12 years, 14 years or something like that, big number. Co-founder here at Platform, I think I've been around for a while at this game. We talked about OpenStack, that project we interviewed at one of their events. So OpenStack was the beginning of that, this new revolution. I remember the early days it was, it wasn't supposed to be an alternative to Amazon, but it was a way to do more cloud, cloud native. I think we had a cloud, a Roddy team at that time. We would joke about the dream, it's happening now. Now at Platform nine, you guys have been doing this for a while. What's the, what are you most excited about as the chief architect? What did you guys double down on? What did you guys pivot from or to? Did you do any pivots? Did you extend out certain areas? Cause you guys are in a good position right now, a lot of DNA in cloud native. What are you most excited about and what does Platform nine bring to the table for customers and for people in the industry watching this? Yeah, so I think our mission really hasn't changed over the years, right? It's been always about taking complex open source software because open source software, it's powerful. It solves new problems every year and you have new things coming out all the time. OpenStack was an example when the Kubernetes took the world by storm. But there's always that complexity of just configuring it, deploying it, running it, operating it. And our mission has always been that we will take all that complexity and just make it easy for users to consume regardless of the technology, right? So the successor to Kubernetes, I don't have a crystal ball but you have some indications that people are coming up of new and simpler ways of running applications. There are many projects around there. Who knows what's coming next year or the year after that? The Platform nine will be there and we will take the innovations from the community. We will contribute our own innovations and make all of those things very consumable to customers. Simpler, faster, cheaper, always a good business model technically to make that happen. Yeah, I think the raining in the chaos is key. Now we have now visibility into the scale. Final question before we depart the segment. What is at scale? How many clusters do you see that would be a watermark for an at scale conversation around an enterprise? Is it workloads we're looking at or our clusters? How would you describe that? When people try to squint through and evaluate what's at scale, what's the at scale threshold? Yeah, and the number of clusters doesn't tell the whole story because clusters can be small in terms of the number of nodes or they can be large. But roughly speaking, when we say large scale cluster deployments, we're talking about maybe hundreds, two thousands. And final question. What's the role of the hyperscalers? You got AWS continuing to do well but they got their core. They got a pass. They're not too much putting a SAS out there. They have some SAS apps, but mostly it's the ecosystem. They have marketplace is doing over $2 billion billions of transactions a year. And it's just like to sit in there. It hasn't really, they're now innovating on it. But that's going to change ecosystems. What's the role of the cloud play and the cloud native at scale? The hyperscalers themselves. Yeah, AWS, Azure, Google. You mean from a business perspective? Yeah, technical. They have their own interests that they will keep catering to. They will continue to find ways to lock their users into their ecosystem of services and APIs. So I don't think that's going to change, right? They're just going to keep. Well, they got great performance. I mean, from a hardware standpoint, that's going to be key, right? Yes, I think the move from x86 being the dominant way and platform to run workloads is changing, right? And I think the hyperscalers really want to be in the game in terms of the new risk and arm ecosystems and the platforms. Yeah, not a joking aside, Paul Morris, when he was the CEO of VMware, when he took over, once said, and I remember our first year doing theCUBE, the cloud is one big distributed computer. It's hardware and you got software and you got middleware. And he kind of oversimpled, he's kind of tongue-in-cheek, but really you're talking about large compute and sets of services. That is essentially a distributed computer. Yes, exactly. It's we're back in the same game. Vic, thank you for coming on the segment. Appreciate your time. This is a cloud native at scale, special presentation with platform nine, really unpacking super cloud, RLan, open source and how to run large scale applications on the cloud, cloud native for developers and John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching and we'll stay tuned for another great segment coming right up.


Good afternoon everyone, this is Melissa with the stockswish.com and welcome. Welcome to AEO. This is the Stock Swish Show Play of the Day. I'm doing a house. I started it yesterday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and this was the call today in the live open house as well. So let's take a look at it. Really nice bearish gap here on AEO. And some people were concerned about this, concerned that it was not going to follow through in the gap and break this area because actually the stock opened at 30 1325 and might not have broken this area. This did do a double bottom here at 1315 and it didn't break it in the gap. But it worked. I rated the gap, I rated 20 points. I took the trade, I did it. Really nice trade, really nice call. Once you know how to trade gaps and rate gaps and if you're very specific and detailed and know what to do, you can do a trade like this. And that's exactly what I did. Entry was here at 1321, stop over the high, came down in here. You could have gotten out of some here, awaited. It had a beautiful ad here. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Dropped on down, went to the first target, which was 13, broke it, went to the next target, which was 1290. The next target was 1280 and then 1265, 1260, 1255, 1250. I don't know if this gets to any of those bigger targets today. I think actually this is done now for the day here at 1280. But the fact is the stock is still showing a lot of weakness. It's quarter of one in the afternoon. If it sets up again, this possibly can go and break more. I mean, I'm not going to do this again today. I'm doing the trends class this afternoon, but this is really weak.  How do I know that a stock is going to work like this? And it's going to sell out the day before, have sold off for the last week and a half, gap down a dollar and a half and still run red on the day? Because I have a rating system. The rating system pinpoints how to take the trades, what to do. When the stock rates 20 points or more, I look at it and watch it to set up and trade. I have a lot of conviction in what I personally do when I trade and what I teach, and the rating system works. And that's how I know that I can sort of stock like this and that it will continue down in the direction of the gap, which is the only way to play gaps. As far as I'm concerned, you are looking for where's the big money? What is the big money doing? Who's in control of the stock? Who's in control of the stock? The bulls or the bears? So the rating system tells you when you're rating the gap as a professional bearish gap, if it rates over 20 points, that the bears are in control. That our money is in control to the downside. Really, really, really, really beautiful weakness here in AGO. This is the Stock Swish Show play of the day. Hope everybody has having a great, fantastic day and week. And if you're interested in the next gap class, it's February 8th and 9th. If you want to learn how to rate gaps, email me at melissa at thestockswish.com. And if you're interested in checking out the rum with the wealth class, I offer one month free in the live trading room. And the class is Monday, one o'clock to four o'clock Eastern time. You do have to be a gap course student to become a full-time member of the room. But if you want to check out the room and be in it for a month, you can be in the room for the month with the wealth class. The cost of the wealth class is $3.99. The room for a month, and then you get the wealth class for the price of $3.99, which is a great deal. So if you'd like more information, email me at melissa at thestockswish.com. The wealth class is Monday, January 27th. The gap class is February 8th and 9th. And I will see everybody soon. Have a great day.


presented by A. DuPont. The Stolen General, a drama of America's first anniversary of the 4th of July. Adopted for radio from a story by Markless James. Starring John Garfield, the Colonel William Box. The DuPont Company, makers of better things for better living through chemistry. Tonight, present a young American actor who in brief three years has risen from relative obscurity to stardom. John Garfield. New York theater goers first became aware of John Garfield, for his performance in having a wonderful time. Later, Hollywood claimed him, and the country cheered his performance in four daughters, just to be my destiny and other films. At present, he is rehearsing in his new stage play, Heavenly Express, which shortly will be seen in the nation's capital. Tonight on Cavalcade of America, he makes one of his infrequent radio appearances, playing the role of Colonel William Barton in The Stolen General. The afternoon of July 3rd, 1777. The headquarters of Colonel Stanton, in command of a regiment of Colonial Militia, at Tiverton, Rhode Island. The Colonel looks up as his second-in-command, Lieutenant Colonel William Barton enters. Colonel Stanton. Yes, Barton? Private Coffin's outside, just escaped the British. Coffin, have him come in. Coffin, Coffin, Colonel Stanton wants to see you. Colonel Stanton, I... Here, here, sit down, man. What happened? Coffin, how'd you do it? How'd you ever get in? Sneaked out at night, made a run for it. The party virginal Prescott at the Overing House, and I took the chance that goose-faced Tory Overing is entertaining the British peacock, huh? More than that, Colonel Barton. Prescott's quartered in his house. Just across the water, Newport Island. Not far, either. He's there, all right.  We'd best bow down before our English betters and let them tell us how to live. He sits up there on the porch of the Overing House all day. Him and Overing talk, talking about their army. The British... Is there any part of the sort of place you've got here, Overing? Not England, of course, but not bad. How hot weather, though, and only July.  It's an honour to have you, General. I'm awfully sorry about the weather, but that's the way it grows in this country. What will your rebel neighbour's duty, Overing, if things don't turn out our way? Hmm? Good heavens, General. You don't think there's any chance of that, do you? My dear Overing, in a war, one side is bound to win, you know. That's the point. I know, General, but... you're trying to frighten us. Oh, I think I did, eh, Overing? Well, don't worry. These rascal rebels haven't a chance, not one chance in a thousand.  General, what? Well, I'm at all still a beginner, ragged in the starving and beaten too. Oh, they haven't the sense to know it. I hear so many of them are deserting every day. Absolutely. The whole ridiculous rebellion is falling apart. Oh, what's the gear? I have a splendid idea. What are you amusing? Collins! Lost it all? Where's that loafing orderly Collins? Yes, General. Oh, there you are, at last, Collins. Give him my fan, will you? And bring me one of those rebel prisoners my men caught yesterday. Yes, General. What are you going to do with him, General? May I ask you just a little thought, Overing? I want to show you what sort of jack-o'-n-nate you're quaking in your boots about. Patriot. Bah! I'm afraid that we could get any of them to quit if they got the chance. He's one of the prisoners, General. Carpenter. Collins, you may go. Overing. Look at the beggar. Now, you see, what sort of scarecrow soldier his majesty's arm is a blad smother with. All they need is a chance to desert. At essay, this general was rather to be captured. Never to lie. Yeah, you can't be a rotten Tory.   Now, now, Overing. You hopped to fight these gentlemen just like they're inferior. I have got a better idea. I say, Collins! Collins, hang it, manny, or death. Think, Fabrice, what's his name? Beth, with my orders. He's given me a dozen lapses. No, no, no, let's think it's two dozen. Make your things just to do. Yes, sir.  Do go away now, Overing. That's a good fellow, will you? He's suffocating.  God, I wish it was over. Well, it's just a fight. That's the story, Colonel Barton. The kind of swine general Prescott is. Look at my back, Colonel Stence. Butcher. Coffin, you'd better see Dr. Williams to put the serve on those welks. Thanks, Colonel. I'll go now. Coffin, yes, Colonel. Newport Island, well guarded. Prescott's got a company of light horse with him and a company of infantry there, too. Two companies, eh? I'll tell you this. There's only one sentry before the house. Only one sentry? You sure, Coffin? Only one sentry? Yes, I saw it myself. Good. That's very interesting, Coffin. Thanks. Report back to duty as soon as you can, Coffin. Won't be long, sir. I'm not missing a chance to pay those red coats back. Blasted British cut coats. Colonel Stence. Yes? I'm going up to Newport Island to get Prescott. I'm going what? And I'll bring him back a prisoner.  Watch me. Well, don't be insane, man. The British fleet's guarding Newport Island. You heard Coffin say Prescott's protected by infantry and cavalry at the Overing Estate. I've never heard anything so fantastic. I heard Coffin say there's only one sentry guarding the house. One sentry. Well... It's ridiculous. I won't allow it. But listen, General Stanton, only one sentry between us and the general. One sentry between you and the sentry. You'd be blown out of the water before you got that started. I know it can be done. I wouldn't try it. Give me 40 Rhode Island oarsmen who know these water better than any man alive. Give me a dark night and we'll flip past that squadron and press guitar. The Americans need something to pick up their spirits. That'll make the British look silly and give us a real Fourth of July celebration. The third, Barton. You can't do it. And I won't be responsible for ordering men to risk certain deaths on any scheme as crazy as that. Look, Colonel. The British have captured General Lee. He was second in command of the American Army. Well, we get pressed it. We exchange pressed it for Lee. Well, Colonel? Oh, I don't know, Barton. I wish you wouldn't tempt me this way. Parade the regiment. Let me call for volunteers. Well, all right. But still doesn't make sense.  If not, we'll forget the whole thing and let me worry about that. Colonel, you'll have nothing to worry about. You'll have to send me permission to find out how many of you would be willing to accompany me on a secret and dangerous expedition. That's all I can say about it now. But I tell you, boys, it's for freedom. And don't forget tomorrow is the Fourth of July. Any man ready to volunteer without hearing any more about it, and what I've just told you will step three paces forward. Well, Colonel Sam, that's more than 40. It's the whole regiment.  Don't eat them. Men, thanks for your spirit, but I can't use all of you. I've got it. Here's what we'll do. Tomorrow we're having boat rangers. The first five crews to cross the finish line will report to me at the cove. That'll make an even 40 in all. Just the right number of good oarsmen. I'll say it. Thank you, men. Well, there we are, Colonel. Good luck, Barton. You'll need it. Thanks, Colonel. Now we'll show you one way to celebrate the Fourth of July. Remember what I told you back there on the shore? Aye, Colonel. You see, the others can see us out here. Might be dark. I'll tie my handkerchief to this bicep here. They ought to be able to see that. Must be drawing near the warships, Colonel. No more talk, then. There's the British leader head to port. A dozen warships. My ore broke there. Don't move a muscle, men. Hold still. Who's out there, I say? I'll see nothing in this rain. I want to make sure we have this light, Hunt. You think that the zones will be quartered how far from the house? The stable is about 200 yards south-side of the house, sir. The infantry would most like to be camping far on the other. Good. And the house is about a mile from the beach, huh? Yes, the galley with high banks. Good. It'll feel us till we get near the house. But that ring isn't letting us. In a minute the moon will come out and they'll be seeing us on shore. Hurry up. We can get color on shore. Oh, that's it, men. It must be the goons on patrol. I think they saw it. I don't know, Hunt. The moon's almost sailing out from behind that cloud. They might have. Listen, they're gone. We're safe. Can you tell whether they're going away from the house or to it, Hunt? I get away, sir. Then we may be lucky again, lad. All right, lad. Here it is. Are we all beached? How about the others? They're pulling on shore now, sir. Good. We'll cut. Your squads follow mine. All right. We'll cut, man. Your squads cover the sides and rear of the house. Look, sir. Your's the road. That cut. Stand by for emergency. Watch out for the goons. You men remaining here get the boats turned around. We'll have to get away fast. The rest of you come with me up to the house. Sign of a light in the house. Look, pin them down. Be ready. Who comes there? Just a friend, lad. A friend and be recognized. Tell me, have you seen any deserters tonight? Deserters? All right, lad. Come on. I've got them quiet now.  Yeah, Gretty? All right, sir. He's tired, all right. Stay by him, Daniel. If anything looks suspicious, why we're inside the house, give a lower whistle, yes? No. Mr. Overeem, sir? Mike Kendall, I believe you did it on purpose. There's enough light for what we want. What do you want? What are you doing here? All right, but I have urgent dispatches from Newport for General Preston. Better show them the Major Barrington before disturbing the general. Where is the light? You'll just show us the way to General Preston, Mr. Overeem. We can do without a light, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Overeem. I don't believe... Never mind what you believe, Overeem. Where's Preston? Why, you're not even British. You are American. Yes, you're sorry, dawg. Now, where's Preston? I won't tell you. You... You've got a lot of art in yours if you want noise. See? Now then... You think I'll surrender to General Preston? Tell him I'll go on. My pistol may go off in the wrong time. It's all right, General. Nothing wrong. There's a matter of importance. Oh, I don't want to say it. Visitors, General, on a matter of vital importance. They insist upon seeing you, sir. I'd like to thank you. Well, who are they? What are they for? Tell them you're bringing us in, Overeem. Come on. I'm bringing them, General. Yes, we'll be right there. Fast, Overeem. Let me get into something. Who are these visitors? I don't believe I know their names, sir. But don't be ridiculous, Overeem. You mean to say you admitted them without finding that out? Who are you, sir? What does this mean? Colonel Barton, Rhode Island militia. You're my prisoner. Do you hear, Overeem? You'll... General, please. I see it now. You'll regret this, Overeem. That's enough of this quiet. I'll obey, General, and start dressing. I'm accustomed to giving orders. I don't take them from ragged rebels. Have it your own way, General, but you look better in clothes instead of a night shirt. One, two... Wait, wait, wait. It's better. Here's your vest, quick. Thank you. I saw a light off near the table. Come along, General. You'll have to dress later. But I can't go this way with only a night shirt and my waist. Where's my britches? Quiet, General. Where are the general's britches? Here they are. Thank you, Overeem. This is a mitigate your punishment only slightly. When his majesty hears of this... No, you don't still believe that I have anything to do with this. And they're like a copper ring. And mimics britches. A couple of you lads better tie Overeem up and gag him, put him in the general's bed. No time for your britches now, General. Bring him along, lads. Now listen, General. We've got to get you out of here. Quick, be inspired. And if you let one creep out of you, I'll blast you right out of that night shirt. Come on, men. You don't keep quiet and hurry along, General. What an upgrade is going to be. You rambles of scratching my legs. Just a minute. We can fix that, General. Austin, General. Make a hand chair for the general to ride in style. Riding along like this bare-legged knight shirt. Why, Georgia, haven't you even got this sword? Come on, that's a serious mistake, indeed. Whoever heard of a general of Al-Rassaud will volunteer to go back for the general sword. Al-Rassaud? All right, Daniel. I just say you see you can go back for it, but shouldn't we? Come, the etiquette, General. I'll produce surrender without it. But, Daniel, remember, you'll have to hurry. We can't wait too long for you at the boat. You won't have to, sir. I'll be there with it almost as soon as you. Getting past that British fleet again is going to be our last risk. Then we'll be back in camp again. Hurry, lads. Thanks heaven the moon disappeared. We've got to make for the boats and be off. We're ready to pick him up. Come off that horse's sleigh. You'll know me well enough, gentlemen. I'm sure they have you to thank for this. No, no, indeed, General. On the contrary, sir, we are grateful to you for the honor of this visit. In fact, we are deeply indebted to Colonel Barton for persuading you to come, sir. Now, what's up? What's wrong out there? Colonel Barton. Yes? A big part of the message is arrived here under a flag of truth. Flag of truth? I believe he's from Newport, sir. Admittedly. Yes, sir. A big part of the message is arrived here under a flag of truth. No, no, sir. I'm looking for you now. Oh, General Brescht. I came by horse as quickly as I could, sir. I have your wardrobe, sir. General Brescht, do you know this man? Of course I know him. My order, you know, that I, Madison, is going to send him. Are you all right, sir? You say, Harmue, he's also shocking. The staff is terribly upset. You can reassure my staff. Tell them I have been treated with proper respect. Thank heaven for that, sir. I also brought you a purse, sir. In case you wanted anything, a purse is refused to supply. I also thought to bring you this bottle of perfume. Uh, a big pardon, Colonel Barton. If he gets the general's standin' long enough, he must be exhausted. That's certainly part of your right. Dude, sit down, General. Forgive us our rudeness. Sounds like your loutish Yankee sense of humor to me. Oh, no, General. I assure you, quite the contrary. Everything must be of exceptional satisfaction. You may, you must rely on that. You'll be comfortable, General, in your temporary quarters before going on to problems. Thank you, Colonel. I'm sure I will be. May I retire now to freshen up a bit to the journey? Certainly. Father, I detail you to escort General Preston to his spot. Yes, sir. Ben? Hey, sir. All right. Thank you. Uh, this way? This way, General Preston. Orderly, be sure to bring along the general's perfume. Thank you, General. All right. Thank you. That was a good job, Father. Wait till the news of this gets around the country. The best thing that could have happened at this time was a great job, my boy. Excellent. Channel, you should have seen him without his britches. Ha-ha-ha-ha. And a laugh rings out from New Hampshire to Georgia. People laugh and soldiers laugh from the roist recruit to the commander in chief of the Continental Office. As that laugh went up, with it rose the spirit of the Americas. At length, the fight for freedom was over and won. Then one day, some years later in New York, in the office of President George Washington, we asked Mr. Beer several scholars waiting there, Mr. Adams, Williamson, and, uh, uh, Colonel Barton. Barton? Do you suppose that should be the Colonel Barton, the one who captured Preston? He said he was somewhere in New England, sir, and maybe Colonel Barton. Well, where is he? The others can wait, Mr. Beer. Send Colonel Barton in. Uh, wait, get my clipping book, sir. See if you can find that item from the London Chronicle and bring it to me, and I'll get it. Come in, Colonel. Come in. How do you do, Mr. Barton? So, your Colonel William Barton. I'm glad. Very glad to see you. Thank you, sir. I've just been to the city for a few days, my first visit in years, and I wish to pay my respects. Thank you. I've always wanted to meet you. Well, what are you up to these days, Colonel Barton? Well, I'm living the mountains, Mr. President. Things have been going well. I really have nothing to complain of. We've got all that we wanted, freedom and a country of our own to live in. Indeed, indeed. Thank you, Barton, sir. Ah, here's the clipping you asked. Thank you. Yes. Yes, this is it. Barton, here's something to introduce you. A bit of doggo like saved from the London Chronicle. As of September 23rd, 1777. I'll wait until you haven't heard it. All right. Don't know, Mr. President. What's it about? I'll read it to you, Colonel. Othello crying the handkerchief. I ties it more than riches. A different note for Prescott Rawls for not resounds the Atlantic shores, but where, oh, where's my bridges? Tell me. What do you think of that tribute? Very unfriendly of the Chronicle I always thought. I'm glad I said that you thought enough of it to change it. Thought enough of it? I'll never forget, Colonel Barton, how much we needed that exploited word. I was saying something like, I remember how dark it seemed. You know, for going advanced, everything seemed lost. And then you showed it. Showed all the stories and all the people what a handful of names could be. It is like a cloud, Colonel Barton. A star cloud. Thank you, Mr. President. I don't know if any of us thought of it that way. I always think of it as the First Fourth of July. By his celebration of the First Fourth of July, William Barton struck an effective blow at British authority and prestige and a blow for American independence. But the reason it appeals so strongly to the American colonists was because it expressed their own and America's sense of humor. And for his courage and enterprise, William Barton tonight takes the rightful place in the Cavalcade of America. Thank you, John Garpe. We are happy to have you as our guest on the Cavalcade of America. And now before we hear from Dr. Monahan about next week's program, we have a story from the wonder world of chemistry. Visitors support special in Southern California these days to see a curious sight. A big ship comes to anchor more than half a mile offshore. It is a tanker ready to load up with oil. The sailors hook a cable to a buoy floating in the water alongside and haul up a gigantic hose of foot in diameter and 180 feet long. This hose is attached to a pipe that lies on the ocean floor and connects with storage tanks near the shore. Oil is pumped into the ship and then the hose is dropped back into the ocean. One of the key reasons why this method of loading is so efficient is that the big submarine hose is lined with neoprene, the amazing chemical rubber developed by DuPont Chemist. Natural rubber wouldn't do for aligning because oil or gasoline would soon destroy it. But even though the oil has to be heated to above 120 degrees to make it flow easily, this chemical rubber can take it. Neoprene's ability to resist oil and grease and chemicals comes a lot closer to your daily life than the job of loading tankers on the Pacific coast. When you stop at the service station to get gas, chances are that the gasoline is pumped to a neoprene lined hose. As a matter of fact, neoprene is used for conveying petroleum products every step of the way from the oil wells to the engine of your car or the oil burner in your basement. And in jobs where men have to walk on oily, greasy floors as in garages or packing plants, they're wearing shoes with neoprene soles. And up in the sky, airplanes are flying through the clouds with neoprene fuel tanks like football bladders tucked inside the wings. Now, neoprene does beauty in your own kitchen too because neoprene resists the softening effect of grease and cleaning preparation, sink scrapers, drainers, soap dishes and drain board mats are being made of it. And housewives find neoprene gloves last much longer than rubber gloves for dishwashing, polishing furniture, paintings and other household tasks. So you see what a variety of needs are served by the unique qualities of this DuPont development. The chemical rubber that has its beginning in a strange combination of raw materials. Limestone, coal and salt. It looks and acts like natural rubber, but it's superior in many ways. The special services provided by neoprene are another illustration of the DuPont pledge, better things for better living through chemistry. And now the cavalcade of America's historians, Dr. Frank Monaghan of Yale University. At the close of our broadcast on Sam Houston, earlier in the present series, Destiny, chiefly in the person of Andrew Jackson, was directing Houston to the western horizons of America, to Texas. Next week's program portrays the brilliant consummation of this unusual career. This is a story of how, following a massacre at the Alamo, Houston led a ragged remnant of sections in one of history's most extraordinary retreats. Suddenly he stopped, wheeled about, destroyed the larger Mexican army and captured General Santa Ana, president of Mexico. By this, Houston won the independence of Texas and thus paved the way for the American annexation of that fabulous empire, which is the lone star state. Next week, the cavalcade of America again is happy to announce that the distinguished American actor, Walter Houston, will again play the leading role in its concluding drama of a colorful career of Sam Houston, the Raven Wind, Texas. On tonight's program, the orchestra and musical effects run in the direction of Don Voorhees, with his battle rise dale saying good night and best wickets from DuPont. This is the National Broadcasting Company.


Okay. Recording started. Okay. So, everyone, welcome to the Jenkins UX-SIG meeting. We are the 9 of June. I'm adding in the Zoom conversation the link to the agenda notes for the newcomers or everyone who don't have it. Don't hesitate to join us on the IRC channel if you see this recording and want to react. So, I'm going to replace Mark for this one because Markweight is not available this time. So, hello Yan, hello Rick, hello Tim. We are the four of us. First step, let's just check agenda review on the topics. Thanks, Uli, for adding the new topic. So, let's see if all the topics are listed and then we can proceed. So, the first topic that we're going to cover will be the pull request dashboard. Is it still okay for you, Uli? Yes. The second topic is about the new release of the HRT API plugin, including Bootstrap 5 and a lot of more changes. Is that topic still to be covered today? Yeah, it's okay. Cool. Hello Fazur ID user group picker by Tim. Is it still okay for you? Collaboration with open source design by Oleg. Oleg told me he won't be available to join, so I propose that we move that topic unless someone has a question or something to replace him. One, two, three, okay, so I'm removing this for another time. And finally, roadmap icon by Uli. Is that still... I'm not sure I put it on the agenda because we had some discussions lately about icons, so... Okay. The topic of interest for me. Okay. That's why I attended this, so I don't know if we could discuss that a little further and then I can drop off after that, if that's possible. Yeah, that's fine. It's okay for me. Tim, is it okay for you as well? Yeah. So I'm moving that as first topic on the notes. Thank you. Okay. Okay, so is there another topic to be brought to the agenda or shall we proceed? We should proceed. Okay, so let's go. So roadmap icons. I'll let you take the mic, Uli and Jan. So I just put it on the agenda because recently we had some discussions about what is going on with the icons. And currently, I think we have a little bit unfinished state in Jenkins, so we have the new status icons for build failed, success and unstable. And we have new weather icons. And I think Tim and Felix started the work on the icons. And, yeah, now we have only a short piece of Jenkins converted with a new style. And one thing which is important, we can discuss is what is the total roadmap for icons. This is one point. And the other point is the point that Jan is talking about that the current icon set for the weather icons is not really useful for most of the users. So this is not related to the roadmap of the icons, but it's related to some icons that we already did change. So maybe if you can say something about the icons you are, you know, or you have the problems with the current icons, Jan, maybe it's a good idea to talk now. I'll just put in the chat if I can here doesn't seem to. There we go. A few days and share that that's a link to my comment, which is actually the first hidden comment where I made my observations about the, the suggested modifications. The basic thoughts are, we think we're all familiar with these icons because we see them all over the place and yet the ones with Jenkins seem to be confusing to people, I think primarily because they're one monochromatic to not actually consistent amongst themselves and and three slightly different to any sets that we've seen before. So, I outlined a series of suggestions on on how to improve them on the assumption that we want to keep that minimalist modern set of icons. So I don't have a disagreement with replacing the existing set and not particularly opinionated, I think as to what kind of icons or the usability of them there's been some comments somewhere else about using the temperature scale or just putting the raw number. So I don't have any thoughts on that but what I did put up is, is a series of sets for comparison and some suggested modifications, which are the six bullet points there. Two thoughts at the end are one is, let's make sure we're consistent in terms of font and line weight and so on across this icon set the build I status icon set and any other icons or symbols that we've got. And the other suggestion on there was to have specific cases for 100% and 0% and so that's why I displayed a series of seven icons instead of the five that were presented so that's my thoughts. I like the the final style with a lighter line weight. The symbols themselves you'll see are are consistent across all the sets with, you know, repeated repetitions of the icon in terms of the sun being identical the clouds being identical or scaled and so on. So that's all I have to say on that. In terms of the roadmap. That's a decision for people with more experience and more input into how Jenkins should look. So, thank you. Okay, thanks. Thanks for also proposing something there has been examples and there are actionable items. So I've put in the, I've put the note in the agenda, I might need help team only on how usually how this kind of request work is it a road for iron to help us contributes do we need to ask for help is there is some work that people already started on that topic. And I'll just add to if you don't mind. The reason I put in these specific suggestions and motivations was because it appeared that someone else with skill was going to start working on the icons. And there was no direction, kind of given as to which way to go so that's why I threw it out there. Yeah, so the UX work that was being done by club is at the time kind of stopped about this time. This was kind of the last thing that was being done. And then the person is working on it kind of rotated off. So it's really just down to a contributor is interested to just got time and they were to do it right now. So if anyone, anyone opens a poor question definitely reviewed and looked at. It's simply new designs that look good on there, especially some of the work you've done. So I think these icons were sourced from the, the current ones came from the material theme for Jenkins. They were described as that material theme have been around for quite a while. They didn't find a good source of the sort of icon elsewhere. It's not really in a lot of other products, at least not in the same way. But that's just trying to replace what was currently in Jenkins with a similar feeling but with more modern icons. Okay, so does that mean that we need a call for contribution for people with a pure UI or design skills there. Since we have proposal and direction is there. I'm not sure what you did with those icons and whether they you were just using them in Photoshop tool and recoloring them or whether it was done in an SVG editor design application. So we're just copy and paste from the links. So from the three different websites, Mike Afford who designed the work through the BBC produced a BBC like set of weather symbols and there's a link there to his sets. So I'm just going to reset for $20 or 20 pounds if, if that's an option. The other ones come from CNN and acuweather.com. So I basically just pulled them from, from the resources they're all. Now, I think Mike Afford produces PNGs. The others actually might be SVG. I can't remember right now, but it was just a copy and paste of the pictures in there I don't have any skills with UI tools unfortunately. I think one of the first ones was one that might have just in that thread just recolored the existing one to go up to one of the first couple of comments Damien. Yep. The one from tomorrow. I don't think it's that one. Oh yeah okay. That one there. I think that's the existing one. Just recolored. So yeah, he just changed it with a paint tool. I don't think you'd need a lot of experience to change the colors. If someone wants to give that a go and see what that looks like. How do you feel about that and would you be wanting to try to contribute at least starting with the color. Well, I've never had to play with an SVG tool. And I know there was a user Vincent. Who did make some suggestions I thought he might be attending here. I was not thrilled with the icons he offered but if if there's a. He also mentioned that he had trouble reading the existing set. The reason will be because it's in a sprite sheet. It's easier to copy them out and possibly fit the width and height on them while you're editing them. I can't make any promises but I can. No problem. My goal is not to force you or to ask you to sign with your blog. The question is only completely open. I think if, if there's agreement on, on which way to go and maybe a phased approach of, okay, first let's just add color guidance as suggested to the original set. You know the second piece about applying some consistency to everything if there's a preference among. I guess, among the quorum of which way to go in terms of a final objective. Do the members here like the, the heavier traditional BBC like the lighter modern BBC like CNN or or the thin line acu weather. I think the color thing, there's consensus on applying the color aspect. I'm trying to write down the same correct me if the notes does not capture what we're seeing. So whatever starting the colors accessibility issue. And then design of the icons based on the different weather examples. So that, yeah. As a proposal there so I will want to make a call a public call right now since one month and a half there is a big, let's say heated discussion on the French technical Twitter about accessibility for the web. There is a lot of people doing web front development, doing a big effort to share that knowledge about how to make. Let's say websites accessible for people with all the spectrum of disability that could be there, including color blindness. So that, if it's okay for you, I will want to ask some of these people that might be in French speaking initially and they will want to switch it back. That's to ask for contribution or help, because maybe people with these skills could give us professional advices and that's since this is an open source product or at least give us direction. So what do you think about this. I'm specifically to the usability I did have a separate response to Peter Levin didn't really down. Where there's actually a number of links in there under the sonar cube section. I don't know why the links don't really show up too well. I think you've had the same issue. A couple years ago, I guess, and, and so there's three or four separate links there are three links I think usage of colors, accessibility issues. So in our 11959 have some information. And then an article on defective color vision and traffic signals which actually has a good analysis on the color spectrum. The reasons for the four different types of color blindness. And how to pick colors that don't overlap on the spectrum. Okay. So if, if, like you said there's further discussion in the French Twitter accessibility is a major issue on the web. And there don't seem to be universal standards for accessibility. I did point out to Peter I don't think color blindness was an issue specifically for the weather, because there is nothing red green blue doesn't have a problem and it's just the contrast. Perhaps he was raising an issue about the build status icons which this wasn't the issue to talk about that on. So I suggested a different issue to track that. I'm not sure if it's link. Okay, so call for action that means that if anyone seeing that recording only one present there. If you know anyone that will be willing to try to at least start on a since it looks like the issue has a consensus about the colors. I am, if I'm correct. If anyone is okay to try to propose something. Did I miss something on that part, the perimeter will be color on the changing the colors of the existing concepts. And in parallel, discussing about pushing forward a consensus in particular it sounds like that the new build icons on a separate issue I need to find the correct link. There is no link for the build icons I just suggested there should be a separate issue. I can create one if you like. Yeah, that will be awesome. I'll do that after this meeting. And put the link on the IRC channel if you are in it. And I'll update the meeting notes with the link icon. Okay, so that's how is it done generally is it we write this done or do we write a call for action team already I'm not at ease with a. I think you don't need to write anything else. Okay, to implement this. Okay, thanks for reporting and all these details and the research you did I am that's that's a lot of I think useful information that should help the people that will be willing to implement this. So, I think one thing, which is still open a little bit for me is what's going on with the icons is anybody making any new icons or is it. Now this that we stop with the unfinished state in Jenkins. It's a little bit disappointing. I think that we started to convert a lot of icons. And now, yeah, I understand. Members left Jenkins project and now we are have this unfinished state. So, looks now. Thank you. Was it the Felix was working on that part one year ago is that correct. Felix and Joseph. I know that Felix doesn't have any more time right now to contribute. I can still ask him directly. Felix, if you listen to the recording afterwards, don't stay to let us know if you are willing to contribute back on that part. For the other I don't know them so yeah sounds like the status is it's unfinished job. Okay, so it's up to the community to provide additional icons now. There was talk about my creating a repo with all the icons that need replacing and matching them up and then making calls for contributors to start on that but none of that ever none of the end is up happening. So yeah, there's a bit of resistance about doing partial transfer, like starting doing them one by one because it would look quite inconsistent. So was a start small on a self contained component and then trying to a wider roll out. I did have a question in terms of the roadmap here. The second series of icons was a GIF and a PNG. The next iteration of icons, I believe was, there's a separate set of SVG files for icons, and the new ones is a package set. So is it defined in the roadmap that the package right set SVG file is the way to go. It doesn't have to be and like the package is reduced right share shape in anyone can provide them but it's a G is what was being used easier to scale and style. It's quite well with different themes as well. But yeah, that's what's being used in the moment. I saw. I can't remember where it was. I saw someone to leave on a channel I can even say if it was a public or private one, but but the fact that SVG cannot have to tip. I haven't checked, but I remember that there might be some tool tip when you move around the cursor on an icon. So I suggest this that I remember suggesting to that person to check and eventually open an issue about that because if it's the case, maybe it's technically possible, but it will be regression. I haven't checked that. I should try with the comparison version but that that case that will be interesting to challenge the usage of SVG unless we remove the tool tip for the icon that could happen. So but yeah, my knowledge is close to zero there. Yeah, that means that we need people to work on that because the status has really stated the work done last year is the current status now released. It doesn't look like there will be more effort. So we need new people with that skills to help. Yeah, it's not. A lot of it is just matching icons up or if ones are existing, pulling them together. But most of it doesn't require new icons to be created. There's mostly being pulled from material material design and some of font awesome. Most where they're mostly being sourced from but doesn't mean that they have to come from there can come from elsewhere or be created as long as the license is appropriate. Where will be the starting point if we have a new contributor that want to run high? Is there a starting one easy issue? I need someone to drive it really. Okay. To coordinate it and just set up a way of coordinating and figuring out whether it's the big thing whole bunch of icons at once or whether it's go component by component again. Okay, so that means if you are willing to contribute then manifest yourself on the IRC or for an issue because that means synchronization then. Okay. Is there anything else on that topic that you will want to to discuss? Thank you, Jan for being there for reporting. We'll try to find someone to implement these ideas or at least improve the situation. We can switch to the next topic. So it's your turn to speak about the pull request dashboard. Yes. I think the best thing about the pull request dashboard is that we provide another demo, but today we are not ready to present a demo so I would like to postpone this for the next meeting in two weeks. So currently the status that we have an implementation of a portlet for the code coverage plugin and the warnings plugin. These portlets already have been merged, but they are not part of their release yet of these plugins. So what I'm trying to do is to create a new release with of the warnings plugin and code coverage plugin. And then we can show the portlets in action. So this makes more sense to wait another two weeks. And then we'll see how the portlets look like. So we are making a lot of progress, but still need some work for the next demo. Okay. Is there any blocker regarding the release or build process that you would need help on? No, given the incident. No, it's okay. It's okay. Okay. Thanks. Is there any question about that topic precision details? No. Okay, so let's thanks really let's jump to the next topic. About the new release of the HRT API plugin. Yes, this is another point for me. I finished now the chance API migration to bootstrap five. Also data tables plug-in has a new release this week, which is compatible with bootstrap five. And I released the corresponding Jenkins plugins today. So these new API plugins are now already for download in Jenkins. The only thing what is still missing is the usage of these plugins. That means the warnings plugin and the forensics plugin and the unit plugin, they all have trend charts that use the new API. For all of these three plugins I created a pull request. And what I'm trying to do is to release the pull requests this week, at least for the warnings plugin and the forensics plugin. So they will appear in the update center quite soon. Okay. Cool. Is there anything blocking you here that you could need help on? Not so far. It's just some work that needs to be done. Okay. Thanks a lot. Is there any question or precision or question on that topic? How's the JUnit one going? I think you've been working on it for a while off and on. Yeah, I'm almost done with it, at least for the functionality. So the only thing is that currently some tests are breaking because of different versions in Jenkins through tests. So let's say versions I'm using for the UI plugins don't match with the bomb updates. So I need to fix these versions. But it is already working. So the JUnit trend chart is also configurable now. So I hope, or I tried to finish this today, but it didn't work up. So give me a little, some more days. Hopefully on the week and you have a pull request that can be merged hopefully. Sounds good. There's one comment on the e-charts API plugin. So I just pulled it up. The pie chart immediately is red, yellow, green, which would have the color blindness possibility. Yeah, mentioned by Peter. Yeah, which chart to do me. So in the e-charts API, there's an example of a pie chart and progress charts. Okay, and both of those have green, yellow issues. So I will just pull this up because it's worth putting in the chat. I'm not sure if you put the design link comment, traffic light comment. But this is a good point. I think one, you know, one topic I would like to add to the, to the charging library is to have some configuration of the colors we're using. So this is, I think is something that we need to make for Jenkins wide. So I think we discussed it. I think it's almost a year ago with Felix about the color map that we created for Jenkins that we also need a map for the charting tables. So if we create charts, we need to have a color map that is distinguishable and for color blindness, we need to be aware as well. Yeah. Yeah, so I posted that link in the, in the chat to the traffic light issue. Okay. Yeah, thanks. I don't know that this is a reference standard site per se, but it does describe the problem and highlight some of the issues very well. Okay. I'll have a look at it just. Making the colors configurable is possible. But yeah, it requires some additional work. So, two of the thoughts are one is it it's often just a matter of picking the right shade with the different weights of the three colors. Another possibility that they suggest for traffic lights that certainly applicable here is to apply a slight pattern in a different shade that would not be noticeable to most people, unless you're color blind, if you scroll down near the bottom. You can see a superimpose a pattern of an axe or an arrow. As you can see in the, the red icons for new meaning in the top quarter panel. So you could do the same thing in terms of a hatch pattern of horizontal line. Sorry, an axe has to hatch pattern a plus pattern or horizontal line for the three colors. Interesting. Anyway, that's what my thoughts. Thank you. It makes sense to define some your semantics for color. So currently we have, for instance, for warnings I have warnings with severities or we have tests which are failing or tests which are okay. So maybe we need some color semantics defined that we have a color that means okay a color that means a failure a color that means priority high and a color that means priority low. And then we have a mapping of these semantics, these words to a different color and a different user can select different colors if they want. So maybe that would make sense in a way. I'm not sure. So because currently, I think we have so many plugins which use so many different colors and yeah maybe it would make sense that the code coverage uses the same kind of colors as the warnings plugin and the unit plugin for instance. I'm not sure that makes sense for you. It actually makes sense. I think it's more matter of doing it. That's the problem here. Yeah. And for instance, a team created the black or what is it the dark theme so maybe we need to change the colors for these dark theme as well so That's a good point. The team could might could be a way to help it. Thanks for the pointer. I am. I've had it done the meeting not the link you gave us. I tried to capture what we discussed. Let me know if it's not clear if I did not capture it well. Thanks for the walk. Li by the way, because that's a lot of work. Is there any other question or feedback on that topic. So let's go to the last topic of the agenda for today demo of Azure AD group picker by team. Let me stop sharing my screen. Okay, should be able to share if you need. Yep, I was just going to share something I've been working on for a bit. Next thing. This is the Azure AD plugin. It's got an extension to the matrix or plug in which allows you to pick users as otherwise to just you your IDs and then it's not very easy to work with. But the problem with that is that the Jenkins API for interacting with us quite limited. And you can just you can just return a string and then it gets straight displayed here. You've got no way of customizing the outputs or supplying other information without it being displayed. If I type this is using like sample data and then Azure AD sandbox. So it's just going to think exactly the string here. But there's a problem that you can't differentiate where it's a user or group. Which means there's no way to validate specifically which one you want here. And which means we have to try both and it ends up and I want to log spam and I want to be extra queries and what we want. So I try that but then if I want a group, it just looks exactly the same here. So I've just been playing around with a web component that Microsoft provides. And I just want to show what I've managed to get it to. So you click in here. And it loads all the users that you work with. Decided not to work right now. Let me just restart it. I think it's. Cash token may have got cash for a little too long. Just be a second. You can still blame the fastly outage for the demo going wrong. No problem. So you tap in here and it brings up all the people that the currently logged in user works with. Using a contact API and then you can search for a specific person. And it comes up with the person, their profile picture, their position. And you can do multi-select now. So rather than doing them one by one. You can do groups. And so on the client side, I've got access to the whole user object so I can see whether they're a user or a group. And I've got the access to their ID and everything. So if you click here, you can then click on the user to check all the details and make sure it's the right person. Rather than just a name, especially if you've got multiple people with the same name. So I don't have multiple in this, but it's very easy to have multiple people with the exact same name.  And you can also see their email as well. And. You can move them and then I can click add. And I can add your multiple of them at once. And because that's a user, it's automatically being validated. And that's a group. So it's not possible right now and make sure it's all. But there's some work going on to sort that out. And then that will work as well. So I can just add that and that and it all works. So this is what I posted on the mailing list about a proxying stuff before. So it supports client side or proxy or whatever you want. But I'm just proxying all the calls that this is the web components completely just a package you install. And it makes all the API calls to Microsoft graph. And so I just created something that just proxies all the API calls. Through just using OK HTTP. And using the do dynamic call from stapler, which lets you handle absolutely everything yourself. So credit having a do dynamic methods. You just completely handle it. I just pass off the call and respond. And just write the response back into the stapler response. I had a weird one with the picture and that the picture was they were trying to just trying to get in code with UTSA and didn't work. I eventually figured it out that the char set, even though the click through the code note, OK HTTP. It says it looks at the char set to detect it. It wasn't working. So I've ended up just hard coding the char set and that fixed the photos. And then I've got some caching up the token and using caffeine. As you just saw, it didn't fully work. So I might just evict the cash if it fails. Or try harder at calculating stuff. I should just show the JavaScript quickly. So looking at the. Yeah. So you see here, this is a weird component. It just looks like a HTML elements. This is the proxy for writing configuration for it. And then there's also.  So this is the component that I'm using and the configuration that's been done on the component. So any type of user or groups by default, just a user filtered to just security groups. And I think the default maximum shown is like five. It's up to 10. And then there's a little bit of JavaScript. It implements. So there's an event that it fires when selection changed. So I use that I've done a kind of bit of hand validation where if you don't put in the thing and showing up a message. And then when you want to switch and change it clears the message. And apart from that, it's just. Change the manual JavaScript that was here before just changing to a four each and. Get the person and then. The select the person people as a person and I just get the display name and the idea art. Because that's kind of how the plugin stores them so the actual stored user has a display name and ID and the ID is passed out of the user. And the ID that's checked that log in and authorization. But yeah, that is it. Anyone got any thoughts or questions. This component to multiple to make this multiple selection is the select to or is this a totally different component. I haven't really looked to be honest. It's called them it's called the Microsoft Graph Toolkit. It's a pretty package police up and time JavaScript components. And it's, I think it's implemented with a list and just check. It uses the shadow DOM quite a lot. The whole bunch of. Actually, it's a bunch of divs. So. Yeah, I think it's a custom components. And yeah, fully. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of shadow DOM and. Every every each one of those are the best. Looks really nice. As a former and still Jenkins administrator when I had to use AD. Yeah. Thank you for that contribution back because that one will develop me years ago. Yeah, this is your AD, which is the like the cloud based version, which Microsoft pushes everyone towards. So. Using graph API and everything rather than. No, and open ID connect or SAML authentication rather than LDAP. But yeah, it's a lot nicer than working with AD. Thanks a lot. Is there any question details on that topic? Okay, are there any new subjects to be brought on last minute? Cool. So if I understand correctly, I will have to stop the recording now. And as soon as it will be generated, I will upload it on the channel. The meeting notes have been updated. If I forgot something, we can still update it afterwards. And if it's okay, we can stop right now. Thanks for that. I've got to go back and a good rest of your day. Thanks everyone. Have a good day. Bye.