They like completely disperse it and tried to steer me away from it, so I don't want to do that to him I'm only about serious literature and football. That's it Could be also like even if your kid goes to the district is where you know everything that the parents do is Automatically uncool. Mm-hmm come back I'd be I can think of times in my life where everything my parents did was horrible and then later on I was like I really like it, you know mom. Can I borrow your Birkenstock? I used to fake my mom's job was really dorky, but She was she was one of the first Accountants at Wells Fargo been San Francisco But she had to program the old the computers But they programmed it the old way with punch cards and so at home We have all these giant stacks of used punch cards I didn't know what they were used for because I thought well today computers use keyboards and you know Monochrome monitors that you type stuff into nope That's cool. Yeah, that is pretty cool That's very very cool Childless, right? Yeah, I'm childless childless here I don't even know where they come from They come from eggs They're actually from a special aisle at the supermarket Costco I was actually making a joke about chickens, but I'm like, they do come from eggs. Yeah, they really do I mean way way back That's actually really yeah. No, it's just totally crazy I'm still in like the I still want to call myself a new parent that I'm like, you know If I've been at a job for 16 months, I wouldn't say I know it this job But really it's just more a matter of me still feeling like I have no clue what I'm doing and from every parent I've ever known that's exactly how you feel You're gonna be reading up a lot online. I think I think one of the weirdest things that I didn't expect was how normal it feels like you get into it Very naturally like it doesn't seem alien and there's a point where you get kind of sick of your kid and your Kid and they do something and it's like the cutest thing in the world. It's like, I love it. It's perfect This is why I'm a parent that biology is weird Roger it's time to do the show, but then you were talking about your children. I felt really disrespectful interrupting Is it okay if we All right, here we go three two Hello, are you beautiful people the Daily Tech news show is brought to you by you You can find out more that Daily Tech news show calm and we thank you for your support This is the Daily Tech news show for Friday, June 29th 2018 from DTNS in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline I'm Sarah Lane. We are doing our roundtable episode. Oh my gosh, Shannon. I'm sorry.  No, you should yes, that's the way it's supposed to go Okay in that case and from studio hack 5. I'm Shannon Morse Thank you Apologies for that joining us today for our roundtable show also is Tricia Hirschberger host and producer of all the things you ever loved on the internet I love that. Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. This is really exciting. Yeah, very excited We're gonna talk about Privacy and GDPR for small businesses. We're gonna talk about what's working in TV is Verizon Sunsets go 90 talk about electric scooters the rise of online multiplayer versus single player But if you don't understand what all this is about our roundtable show is when we do once a month Where we expand the regular show into this full-fledged roundtable discussion We do a full hour with Sarah myself and our guests and while all of our topics cover news of the day We are going to start with a few tech things you should know According to a Microsoft internal document obtained by the verge the company's upcoming surface device code named Andromeda And in the works for about two years now will include a dual display design and have a pocketable form factor Microsoft is said to be planning to release Andromeda this year with similar devices from some of Microsoft's top OEMs to follow afterwards Pocketable that's it. Yeah. Okay. TechCrunch reports Apple is rebuilding its maps app data from scratch Company plans to introduce the overhaul data over the next year with the first batch rolling out over the next few weeks in The Bay area Apple will now rely on its own data either collected by vans that it rolls around or from your iPhone Instagram will now let users add music to their stories on Android and iOS in Australia New Zealand France Germany Sweden the UK and the US Users can choose the song after they shoot the video on iOS before with that feature coming to Android soon iOS first the feature is made possible by parent company Facebook's Licensing deal that we talked about recently with major music labels Instagram also announced that stories has 400 million daily users Kotaku sites five unnamed sources who say Google's planning to start a streaming gaming platform Not just the service but the hardware to go with it Google has been courting big game developers supposedly to support the new platform Kotaku bolsters earlier reports from the information about so-called project yeti that's what the information said this project was called and Google supposedly met with game developers at both e3 and ABC Qualcomm announced the QCC 3026 bluetooth system on a chip to let developers create wireless earbuds quickly Its pricing will be low enough to allow wireless headphones to be bundled with phones in the box Qualcomm also says the system uses 50% less power over the previous generation OPPO announced it will use the chip and headphones it sells and will bundle them and some find X phones QCC 3026 just snappy Hmm really is really come up with those names. All right. Let's move on to our first discussion Topic Sarah first discussion topic comes from Trisha So Trisha as as as the gaming expert of the group today at least, you know, we'll just go ahead and call you that the idea that there is this Move to multi-player gaming Even though some people prefer a very personal experience and a lot of game developers are talking about this as well as Well, whether or not you want to create a a single-player experience game the the the The trend is going in in in the direction of kind of having to create these multiplayer experiences What are your thoughts on not only the trend what people want and and and how game developers can continue to make the games that they want to make Yeah, I think the hard thing is right now that a lot of the big numbers that everyone's boasting in the gaming industry are Primarily online multiplayer games because they can be monetized over such a longer period of time Instead of having the hit game with the awesome story that everyone kind of finishes once and then maybe is done and finding creative ways to Have a single-player experience that has replayability If you've got an online multiplayer experience that you can then further monetize with micro transactions loot boxes, etc Those game companies are just raking in the dough So even game devs that want to make really awesome single-player experiences Are feeling like maybe that's not where the industry is headed and then we're seeing this outcry From gamers who are maybe a little bit more introverted or for whatever reason Don't prefer an online multiplayer experience Just wanting to kind of have that escapism and play for themselves are feeling like Well, is there nothing made for me anymore? And we saw this really at this past year's e3 Just a couple weeks ago The last of us too was a beautiful single-player journey We're all super excited. Um, but then we saw the fallout series, which was traditional Traditionally a single-player experience go to fallout 76, which is going to be a multiplayer experience now online Which has a lot of people going really? I don't I'm not sure that's what I wanted. Um, and uh, Bioware, you know, that's known for Mass Effect and great single-player experiences again going with the online anthem and uh It's similar to me I feel like from the outcry and somewhat cyclical thing that we saw with local co-op Where all of the multiplayer used to be local because we simply didn't have the technology to have online multiplayer And then uh, we got the technology to have online multiplayer and then we saw no local co-op anymore There was this outcry for more local co-op and now we see on the indie scene specifically More local co-op coming up. So I'm hoping that much in the same way we've seen with Couch or local co-op will kind of see a return to single-player Experiences not that it's fully gone yet. I don't I don't want to say that I I you can probably tell my biases that I really like single-player experiences So, um, I'm really excited for life is strange too. And you know, I'm in it for the High emotional stakes the beautiful story. I mean I want to walk away from a great game feeling like I just saw You know the best film of the year except for it was even more impactful because I was part of it But that's the type of gamer I am I I don't know. How do you guys feel about this? Yeah, as a somebody who played world of warcraft as if it was single-player and Really, uh, got many of my friends upset because they're like, why aren't you responding to chats? And I was like, oh, I wasn't even looking at that. I didn't know he people were talking to me I definitely like that single-player experience And I feel like gay the gaming industry is like anything else It goes it goes through trends and when something catches on like, oh, I don't know fortnight or pub g Suddenly everybody Goes and does that thing for a while So I wouldn't give up on single-player either and and you mentioned the last of us sort of as you know One of the banner holders that says, hey, this can still be really good Uh, I I do think that there's some interesting things going on that you don't hear enough people acknowledge like telltale games Which is on rails. It's it's not as as much of a it's more story than game But it's showing that like hey people do like episodic Video games that are single-player that tell a great story and hopefully that will start to allow people to move You know, maybe take some of the magic of telltale and put it into a little bit of a wider world and realize Oh, we can put things out in chapters and the people who really like the single game player experience Can still spend a lot of money with us because they'll keep wanting to play those chapters It doesn't always have to be multiplayer Right. There's an LA Times article In this discussion that I read this morning that made a few good points because I think it's easy to say like Well, you know, it's like an extrovert introvert thing, you know Some people don't want to be social and some people do but If you equate it or at least compare it to something like reading a really good book There's some there is an escapism Fact of that that will appeal to some people and not to others Where the idea of watching a television series or a movie alone silently rather than Discussing it with somebody or having a bunch of people in the same room That makes a lot of sense to me and it also means that this gaming experience is like You don't really have to choose one or the other. They're completely different I I will jump in that um, and I Much much prefer a single player over multiplayer just because I've had so many bad multiplayer experiences But part of it is money like to do like any of the naughty dog games super super engaging super Scripted also super expensive to produce you got not only do you have to come out the art assets And and the coding but you also have to get the voice actors You got someone to write all the the material and so for for some publishers they it's it's a It's kind of a weighted thing. It's like, yeah, you know, we can do multiplayer We could skip a lot of the story narratives But we could also skip a lot of the overhead that would we would require in order to produce that Style of game we go with multiplayer. We drop in loot boxes You know, we charge a nickel here and there for for various, you know add-ons and stuff um And we can make a good If you know a decent if not amazing living, you know off of that And so I think that's kind of the mindset right now because As I mean Trisha, you know, there's like AAA titles have gotten to the point of You know blockbuster movies where it's just you know impact impact impact eye candy But it also costs incredible sums of money to produce a lot of publishers like we can't always You know put that amount of cash Into developing a game, especially if it's not a franchise if it's not a call of duty If it's not a halo if it's not a mario if it's not a zelda, you know You know, you don't have this thing to hit you to and you're risking a lot of money doing that So then are you kind of equating the the multiplayer experience right now to like reality tv roger? maybe not reality tv, but I would say something that maybe has a Better like initial return on not initial but a long-term return on money. It's kind of like those I don't want to say asylum movies because it's a really bad way to I think reality tv is a good analog for what you're saying roger because it's low budget You know and and high return. Yeah, and and it's you know, you get a lot of them and like what you were saying tom I think it is a trend. I mean after a while people like, you know, I kind of sick of seeing the same format at show I like netflix. They spent a lot of money, but it's well scripted episodic serialized shows um, and we might see kind of a nice hybrid like Life is strange or any of the telltale games like the batman game, which is actually a lot more engaging than I thought it would be But like where there's a happy medium because you know different you know different strokes for different folks I've had a similar experience with multiplayer games as you have roger where I kind of don't play multiplayer anymore online because I had bad experiences with it in the past and For me it was it all came down to like harassment So and and video games for me has always been that escape that hobby that I can do by myself That just gets my brain rolling. That's really exciting and and enjoyable and when I'm doing that I don't want to get attacked or anything And I don't know if that's still an issue with multiplayer games since I haven't been playing any lately But I I generally focus on single-player games and that's just A preference on my own part So I really do hope that it is cyclical and that we do end up having a lot more Single-player games making a comeback because right now it just seems like Everything that I'm seeing on twitch is a multiplayer game and everything that I'm seeing my friends play or multiplayer And I just don't feel like I can really get into it with them Yeah, it's kind of odd that we have a whole panel of pro single-player games people. That's kind of funny That was not my intention. Yeah I feel like now I need to champion multiplayer a little bit multiplayer has its place too. It's humor And I will say my favorite multiplayer game still has to be the left for dead series because it is incredibly well like It's not a it's it's not an on rail shooter But it is technically on rails right because you move from point a to point b to point c to point d and finish the game The great thing is it's kind of like when you do the car share car pool in the bay area Where you pick up riders so you can use the hov lane and don't have to pay toll across the bridge And then once you get to the other side everyone gets where they do you get out of the car? There's no talking there's no chit chat There's no like oh what'd you do over the weekend?  Not all games need a community of that level, right? I just want to kill like 30 minutes or an hour and then I have to get back to work or babysitting or doing something else And multiplayer sometimes can take a big chunk of your life I mean as any wild player can attest to it is a big significant investment of your personal life And you know as you get older and you get busy you get a lot more responsibility The single player aspect is great made it to the save point Stop the game turn off the tv and go do something else I mean, whatever happened to the option of a game and you know Maybe I'm naive because I'm a little out of the loop on what's cool these days But something that could be a single player or multiplayer experience depending on what you want it We have to play against computers for a lot of the games that are available online So you don't necessarily still have to play multiplayer for them Well, and the other thing is a lot of single player games have a multiplayer aspect And sometimes that gets criticized because it's thrown in there and it's not as well designed as the single player game What's happening? My question is is there a good example of something that does both well?  Do they have The freedom to do something like that? Like rocket league does that where you can just play against computers So you don't necessarily have to play against a bunch of people fortnight is putting in the playground Uh, I are bringing back the playground. It was so popular it crashed But uh, the playground allows you to just kind of tool around without the pressure of the massive area It's still technically multiplayer because I think you can go in with up to three other friends Uh, but it's not it's not that massive multiplayer Battleground system. So I mean, I think the real Point here is there are multiple types of games that involve multiple types of players There's single player. It's just me in the game and that's it Uh, and then there's single player But I could also play it with others if I want and and have a couple people or I can play it alone Uh, you know overwatch even has a mode where you can just go in and play Against ai's and with ai's if you just want to practice So that that stuff exists and then there's multiplayer's that don't involve building a community There's multiplayer's that don't involve even teaming up, you know is a weird example But animal crossing pocket camp you play with other people all the time But you never talk to them. You just have you just cooperate with them on a couple of very limited things So there's all levels of of interaction that can be used It's just one particular type is sort of skewing the curve right now. Is that you think that's fair to say Yes, and tom to what you're saying about animal crossing pocket camp That's actually what they see they're trying to do with fallout 76 That's got everyone a little bit worried because they said oh you can still have a single player experience You're just going to have it in a world that exists with other players And I think the concern when When games try to do both Is that inevitably one will be lacking and everyone's fear is that it will be that single player experience It's lacking if you do try to play a fallout 76 as a solo player You may not get the full experience or you might not be able to defeat certain objectives Because they're really designed for you to team up. So that's where the hesitations No one in animal crossing can nuke me as far as I can Yeah, well, if there was confusion about that, can you nuke your friends and fall out, huh? Yeah, I mean and it's that that's another thing with fallout 76 Is we don't quite know all of the details about how it's going to work So there's a lot of fear of like what if it works this way and it's like well, it might not so Totally totally but yeah, I mean and we saw that happen with multiple games within the last few years where Games like a halo that were traditionally a single player experience where now we're online and even the Tutorial and the single player campaign will still be online And I think that's where everyone's kind of afraid that everything's heading because I believe that those single player Gamers feel like they missed out on something there I I actually really enjoy what forza did several years ago where they I don't think they were the first ones to do it by any stretch But they put in the ghost car aspect so you could race against your friends even if they weren't online You just kind of saw them And and you could you could rate yourself against them and it was really fun for me because I would play And then someone that just happened to be in my friends list Maybe I didn't even know them that well was like, hey, I was raising you the other day Like yeah that this was really interesting and that was a fun way to kind of again take a different Take on multiplayer. So there's lots of those examples Yeah shadow of mordor did that really well as well where you could see if a certain enemy and your game had Killed one of your friends in their game. You could get a revenge kill for your friend Even though it was their separate experience. Yeah Yeah, very very cool I I think we're just at peak peak massive battleground multiplayer right now and and and You know, it's a little bit like sequelitis Where where everybody's doing it and and everybody's freaking out because everybody's doing it Not all of them are going to succeed and not all of them are going to be good. So You know in a year or two, we'll see whatever the next trend is. Maybe it'll be yeah Maybe it'll all be animal crossing like games All right, let's move on to Shannon's topic Shannon has gone from hating the electric scooters like bird and lime To loving them if you don't know what this is about, it's not in every city But if you're in china, you definitely know about it. There's lots of places in europe southeast asia and the united states that have these They are either sometimes bikes Sometimes scooters sometimes both, but they're dockless. So the idea is I have an app I go find a bird scooter that's nearby. I unlock it with the app I can pay a buck to ride it plus a little bit of money per minute And take it wherever i'm going it's motorized So it's a great way to do the last mile like get me from the train station home Maybe or something like that. And then when i'm done, I log out lock it up But I don't have to put it in a place. It's not like a docked bike system I can just leave it as long as I leave it responsibly, you know at the side of the road out of traffic, etc, etc San Francisco and now and now los angeles is considering the same thing have limited the number of these that can be In the city because they were cluttering up walkways They were they were causing problems because there were too many of them in china several cities have had the same sort of situation So shannon walk us through how you went How you learned to love the electric scooter Yeah, so I've gotten to experience them in both san francisco and oakland now. So I'm putting myself out there as My own getting pig test to see what makes these work and what makes people hate them so much So my first experience with them was in san francisco When I was seeing way too many it was very cluttered and one of the problems that you see in san francisco is There's cars always on the road. It's extremely extremely clustered There's tons of traffic and there's a lot of people walking around lots of pedestrians on the sidewalks And I was actually hit by one of the scooters as somebody was driving by and they were driving extremely fast Even though there were tons of pedestrians walking around And at that moment I had this epiphany where I was like now I know why people hate these scooters so much And then they got banned in san francisco and lyman bird decided to take them right across the bay over to oakland And luckily I work in oakland. So at that point I was like there's not as many pedestrians here There's not as much traffic. So I'm going to actually try this and see what all the fuss is about So I tried it out tried the application and It was actually pretty easy. I was able to go Uh about a mile for one dollar And then I understood why people like them so so much in in a city like oakland when you don't have as much traffic And you don't have as many pedestrians on the sidewalks It's very easy for you to get around and to navigate on one of those scooters Without hitting people while you're driving them. And I think that's a really important factor And just the fact that they were so cheap and they save gas, you know, they're they're running on electric They're running on batteries. So you're not, you know, adding to the issues that we have with pollution in the cities Or anything like that But you're able to get to the place that you need to in a decently fast setting Uh, I then thought, you know, these are actually pretty useful if people respect them And the problem that we were noticing with lime and bird was that I don't think they respected the city when they brought them into san francisco There were no permits involved. There was no discussion They just brought them into the city and said let's make let's make san francisco the guinea pig And as soon as they did that, of course, everybody was just trying to figure out how to use these things There was not a lot of education as far as what was going on with them So obviously tons of people are going to hate them And that's why they got banned is because they just they didn't work with the city in the first part to actually come up with A game plan to make these accepted and make them useful While here in oakland, I don't know if they've been working with the city But I think that the population given that it's a little bit less It works a lot better for this kind of environment So it's been interesting going from one city to the other and trying them out in both cities and seeing what's going on I'm I'm more understanding and I'm kind of sympathizing with the scooter riders now as opposed to What we were first experiencing in san francisco Well, it's interesting. So in the part of la I live in, you know, people think of la is like, oh, it's freeways and traffic And it's crazy Well, I live in, you know, the beach town part of la, uh, which actually had bird scooters Not sure about lime although the birds started over there actually Yeah, exactly and and the thing about venice is that it's literally a beach town Even though it's obviously in la to the point where we're very used to people on bicycles people on skateboards So the idea of someone being on a scooter doesn't really change As anybody who drives a car around this area and there are plenty of cars The the form factor is not actually the issue But they honestly cropped out of nowhere to the point where I like to think of myself as you know, I know what's going on You know the new startups and everything it was like, what are all these scooters outside my apartment building? And why are half of them on the ground and you know, where are they all coming from and for a while? Exactly Fine really it was like all of a sudden they came out of nowhere and people were saying these are so great Um, and I actually rode my first the other day Had taken me a while but I needed to get somewhere a little bit quicker that I could jog I didn't want to drive and it worked really well What I see is and again, this is just because you know, I have anxiety about anything being dangerous is I see people piling on the same scooter, you know, for example You know An adult and someone who's clearly under the required age to be on the scooter. Okay Yeah, so you see that around and it's going to happen and that sort of thing and and okay You know, hang on hope the best But what happens when there's an accident and something happens And then the person on the scooter is somehow blamed because they weren't following the rules Mm-hmm Because really, you know, if it's a bird scooter or any scooter really because they all have pretty much the same design versus a car Somebody's going to get hurt and then what do we do? Right and you are required to wear a helmet when you and I have never once seen one person wear a helmet I don't care if they're two years old or Shannon do but yes, I'd never seen I don't even own a helmet so I don't know helmet whether or not I remember to write it on my scooter Or when I'm using one of these scooters is another story and and that's something too is a writer education And I think there needs to be more work as far as educating users As about how you're supposed to write these things where you're supposed to write them what the proper protocol is And maybe there needs to be some some laws in the cities that they're used in to make sure that Writers are actually wearing helmets You know if they could get ticketed if they don't like you can get ticketed in certain cities If you don't wear a helmet and you're riding a bicycle and I feel like given that these go really fast They go like 20 miles per hour. They're very very fast little machines I feel like that should be pretty standard across any city that they're available in Yeah, it's fascinating. I love the green aspect of this I love the tech aspect of this that you know, we're we're solving our transportation issues in a in a newer You know more hip way if you will But it it opens such a can of worms when it comes to everything else. How do you police user behavior? I mean is it up to then the company to impose a fine if the scooter is Parked improperly in a hazardous area and gets impounded. Does that cost get passed on to the user? Is there something where you know if they are found not wearing a helmet or having two people on a scooter That they would be fined and is that something that then the law the local law enforcement would have to Police or is that something that the company would police its users on or like you mentioned Shannon the whole idea of Education whose responsibility is that? I think that what the various cities that this has that have adopted a pilot program where they're only allowing so many scooters I think that's a really really smart move so that they can Fully understand what a lot of these main pain points are going to be and find a way to attack them And and that is something that san francisco has been doing. They've they've decided to introduce a permit Uh restriction on these different scooter manufacturers and brands in the city limits and they're only allowing I believe 10 to 12 different ones to Put in permits and then they'll only accept a certain amount of those brands to be allowed in the city itself and a lime has been quoted as saying they've only seen about one percent of the amount of scooters be lost stolen have Been destroyed or whatever it might be, but I haven't really seen any of them Reach out or talk publicly about what they do whenever Something happens to a writer or somebody has something happens to somebody else That's around that environment like if they get hit or anything like that So as far as like, you know your concerns medicals and things like that might put you in a hospital We haven't really seen them say anything as far as like who would be at fault Yeah, I'm looking through the bird app right now and they have Uh several How to ride segments about you have to have a driver's license. You have to be 18 years old Here's where you can ride them. Here are the the rules for your local municipality They do a pretty good job of making that information available. They have a separate section on safety Uh, particularly about helmets and speed and all of that But here's the I can't find a terms of service. There it is finally. Okay, I found it to figure out like, okay So when I don't do those things what happens, uh, you know And as far as I know they indemnify you if you're following the rules But if you aren't if you didn't have your driver's license You didn't have your helmet on you were going faster than you were supposed to etc, etc Then it's all going to be on you just as it would be if you own the scooter yourself So it's it's all good as long as you don't get caught As long as you don't break the rules.  They will take the liability But that's the problem is like people break the rules all the time I've never seen anybody wear a helmet whenever they're riding these things. I've never I've never seen I've never seen one person on a helmet and I mean, there are boots bird scooters I can hear them outside Right now here's the issue right which is it's all over this app that you have to wear a helmet Right, so it's not like they're skirting the issue here Uh, and police can pull you over and say hey, you should be wearing a helmet But I see the same thing with personal bicycles has nothing to do with the rental Part of this people ride their own bicycles without helmets all the time So there's there's kind of a wider sociological issue with this as well They also have this little issue where um, you're not supposed to wear write them on the sidewalks At least in the city of opeland. You're not supposed to same here And I see them ridden on the sidewalks all the time now line does also Have a good job of introducing you to the concepts when you first open up the app For your first ride though. So if you just skip the rights right through that They don't really warn you anytime other than that first time that you open the app as far as like what the proper protocols are um And and another issue that I've noticed is just you know There will be gangs of people on these scooters all at the same time And they just don't seem to be respecting their neighbors And I I don't know if that's an issue in other cities or if it's just an issue that I've seen in the bay area, but um I feel like the the implementation of the scooters like how quickly they were introduced into the cities Was seemed Kind of inappropriate given that they weren't working with the cities in the first place But I'm really hoping that the permits introduce some some Good perception from the public and they also introduce some good laws that you know The riders will be able to deal with and that the the manufacturers will be able to deal with as well I'm sure it depends on the city too and you know where it's being implemented But you know again and where I live it's it's the electric scooter is is has taken over And I was I was in my car the other day and I was behind another car and there were you could see scooters Just like they're like 30 of them like just And I was like that woman is stealing all those scooters. My friend in the car was like, oh no Yeah, she's going to take them back to the mothership, you know and you know Make it all but you know, I was like Oh, so that's a job that someone has that I hadn't even thought about is you know collecting the scooters And bringing them back so that they're you know, they they're they're fixed, you know, very west world and There's high schoolers making tons of money by collecting these things after school day gets over Or school the next day Like between I think five to 25 dollars for specific brands Depending on where its location was and how hard it was to get to it And like I guess where you drop it off in the morning There's a lot of different Items that go into how much you're paid per scooter But if you get a whole bunch of them then you can make bank That's crazy That's crazy. Okay. So I have a question for you guys then so Because we're talking about the legality if a user gets injured and that kind of stuff Would it make you feel more comfortable or less comfortable if it was a scooter Come if it was a scooter that was say run by an established rideshare company like an uber or lyft who already has some of those in place Applied for a license in san francisco. That's right I mean, do we think that would be a better implementation since they already have some experience with that kind of stuff I mean, no better if people aren't wearing helmets and they're accidents. I don't think it matters In fact, I would even go as far to say Is to say that if it were something like uber Um or lyft and something bad happened They would be held more responsible because they've had so much more Uh, you know supposed experience But beside the human behavior aspect, this is not new when people rent cars all the time and then get in accidents So so really it's it's just because it's it's a different thing I think people are forgetting like no, we have established law on this if you're riding a scooter It doesn't matter whether you rented it or you own it yourself. You're responsible for what happens on it Uh, and if the company that rented it to you is at fault for something They're responsible for the machine itself and and that seems to be I was looking up a couple of things while we're waiting That seems to be the applicable law So the question is how do you enforce better behavior that that seems to be what we're dealing with now All right, that was the music. So uh, this was a good topic though I think it's uh, it's time that uh, we wrap it up there And and just say ride carefully folks Put it on carefully. Yes. Yes, uh be a defensive driver Uh defensive rider defensive scooter. I don't know whatever whatever the verb is. Yeah, uh, let's move on to the idea of video online and what tv means The reason that we're we're gonna kick off this topic is because News from yesterday that Verizon is shutting down the go 90 video streaming service has been around for about three years Verizon's go 90 service will shut down on july 31st uh, it Was not necessarily something that I watched very much although full disclosure I used to work for Verizon. So when go 90 was actually new I actually technically worked for the company Although I worked for tech crunch. I was a Verizon employee Now it didn't have terrible numbers supposedly at its high 17 million, uh monthly uniques That's not terrible, but certainly not really Netflix numbers as well Uh and development shifted to vessel which Verizon also bought uh at at some point Verizon acquired vessel and then Go 90 had had some layoffs. This was at the beginning of 2017 I think it was january if I remember correctly And there was a little bit of sort of like, yeah, how's this going to work? Are they going to merge? so It apparently the company says there aren't going to be a lot of Significant layoffs on the go 90 team because a lot of them have either been already laid off or absorbed into Other efforts, but the question remains Can something like this survive and I think that it's an interesting topic Especially because so many of the big companies now are launching standalone video streaming services AT&T has watched tv What that was gosh, what was that two weeks ago now and it just launched live today They announced it a couple weeks ago and it's now it's now live as of today Exactly and the list goes on so You know, do we think something like go 90 was doomed from the start? Was there something that Verizon did wrong specifically? Or is it just the fact that there's so much competition that we cannot all survive? I mean the the hints in the name they made you do something to watch it. You had to go 90 you had to And apparently what snapchat and ig tv instagram have learned you don't need to do that Just show it vertically people are apparently fine with that now and and i'm partly joking But partly I feel like that is that is it as people felt like well I don't know what this is and I have to have to turn it Whereas instagram is like you already use instagram You don't have to change how you're using instagram Just tap this part of the explore tab and you get a whole new world of stuff that feels like a more natural proposition I will admit. I actually watched go 90 Okay, well Was there a particular show? I watched machinima's transformer power the primes and like their transformer series because it was the only place they had it Um, and I will say one of the biggest problems. I had with go 90 was there was nothing compelling because although there was some unique stuff A good chunk of it at least three quarters to 80 percent of it was just that catalog of stuff that was Stuff you've already seen or Maybe would be interested but not super interested. Maybe babel on five, but you know amazon prime Has that too. So it wasn't there was no standout. There was no house of cars. There was no You know oranges in the new black there was not there wasn't the one show that like Oh, I got to see it There was no eye candy to kind of pull you in Into that platform and that's what everyone you see doing right? You know, you you have to have your at least one 10 poll show if not at least You know, it's not a handful to kind of really get people cement I mean it was the same argument we did with cbs all access like the only You know attractive compelling thing was star trek discovery. That was the thing that would make you Yeah, you know pay, you know at least until the series is over But there wasn't enough stuff otherwise to to convince you to pay the monthly Uh, you know feed It was free with ads Yeah, um, you don't have to pay a monthly fee and and it turns out the thing that it was used most for the way They got to that 17 million uniques was sports live sports was was kind of the only thing people regularly watched I I don't they also didn't do a lot of really great advertising for that service that I I can't remember seeing one indelible You know go 90 ad in my head. I can thank you It's interesting roger the way that you describe go 90 is like well, you know There was a reason that I was actually using the service because I wanted to watch this particular series But most of it was kind of back cataloging That's exactly what we all said about netflix way back when Um before netflix had original content hits, which now netflix is very much known for it Even though there's a big catalog, but it's you know things come and go because of licensing deals Back in the day, I remember I was one of those people, you know, this is still when it was a dvd service being like I don't know. I mean, I just don't really Ah, but see most of that stuff is not really for me. And I think that netflix is Definitely a darling of the industry, but it's not the only company that sort of figured out how to Uh, you know have something beyond that kind of lackluster catalog that Lots of other services have and I don't think go 90 had enough of that To sustain and I don't know any company that could really compete with that when we have a netflix or you know, amazon Original content I was thinking yeah, like what's transparent under amazon, you know amazon and and a few others so I'm not sure how Something like this could exist without that breakout hit and maybe I'm not thinking outside the box enough, but it seems like Any service that says here's our walled garden. Please come and watch our video That doesn't have this killer show or movie Or that's original that no one else has is dimmed I think I mean part of it like for the netflix example originally it was there to disrupt the whole blockbuster home video rental System right why get in your car and go down to the blockbuster rental movie when you can do it from netflix It'll send you three discs, you know up to three discs and you return them whenever you want They that was their hook and then when they kind of made the push in online streaming Initially it was just a bunch of stuff and tom's holding up This is that shift you're talking about I have the the manual for the roku netflix player When they first launched the netflix streaming service you could get it on the web Netflix player and it would allow you to then go and take anything out of your dvd queue that was available for streaming and play it on the roku netflix player Uh, and that that is when we complained about the back catalog. We're like I wasn't one of the people saying this but a lot of people were saying It'll never catch on because they don't have the catalog who wants to watch these movies The best ones are still on dvd and of course eventually the catalog get built out Eventually they started to get tv shows in there as well and then people started to take stuff away stars left They lost a few deals with some of the broadcasters and people said oh netflix can't survive streaming now because they're losing all their good stuff And they started to create original content like house of cards and now that is what they're known for So I mean what verizon did wrong was they thought well live sports will get people in and then we'll strike these deals With people and we'll have things like babel on five in the background And that'll be enough and they just never had anything beyond the sports That would pull people in and as we know unless you give them all the sports Which is what cable tv's big advantage is still People don't come for that. So some people were using it for that, but you're right roger They just didn't have that thing where people like oh you have to get go 90 youtube premiums If formerly youtube red has the same issue with with only, uh, the kobra kai series Kind of on anybody's mind right now as something like oh, well, maybe I should get it to watch that Well, it's interesting because I feel like they are all going with that Hey, we need our standalone original content to stand out and I say they all meaning youtube premium Go 90 any of the subscription vod's that we've seen pop up and fall apart over the last three or four years Where they they buy original content, but I feel like a lot of them are buying content That they're buying it from other production companies that have free digital content out there So this one show may be exclusive to their platform like go 90 I know uh bought a bunch of shows from like machinima and smosh and a bunch of great companies that we love their content But a lot of their viewers are used to getting for free on one specific platform So unless they're really particularly drawn in by this one show I I feel like the viewer mindset is well, I can get stuff similar to that on the platform I'm already using so it's not enough of an impetus to move over there So how do they get that standalone that everybody's talking about that they have to go to this other platform for? Well, isn't that the question that would make us all rich Well, and and I feel like Verizon thought well ours will be free And ad supported so it'll be like a social network Except it wasn't a social network because the other way you get people there is to say Oh Follow all your favorite celebrities and news makers and then we'll also give you this other stuff You know Twitter has tried lots of live news and sports and they still are But people come to twitter to see what's being written on twitter IG tv is getting so much interest because Instagram already is a place that people are launching and so they don't you have to convince them to do something new Well, then conversely let's take a look at facebook watch Which has been around how long and hasn't taken off at all even though people are already going to facebook I don't like facebook's overall numbers are down, but for whatever reason None of the facebook watch programming has been a hit success And so maybe that just doesn't work right because you think about it twitters hasn't been a success facebook's I mean it's too early to tell on IG tv, but it may not end up being a success either One of the arguments I can make is a lot of times whenever I'm being introduced to a new application to watch Streaming content is is that content available on the physical player that I am playing it on And you held up the roku manual earlier And I instantly thought like oh well is is go 90 even available on my roku like that's where I'm usually watching content I don't necessarily watch content on my phone all the time A lot of times I would just want to sit in front of my big hd tv and watch netflix or hulu on there And if it's not available on that physical platform that I'm using whether it's a smart tv or a roku app a tv or whatever it might be I'm not going to go out and spend You know a hundred dollars plus to buy a new physical box so that I can watch your application if it's not available I'm not going to watch it Well and their premise was oh, but the people we're targeting all watch things on their phone or maybe their tablet So that's all we need to be at But it didn't work Yeah, I feel like that's not the case like yes There is a huge population of people that watch on their phones myself included I never watch netflix on my phone unless i'm on an airplane. I usually watch youtube on my phone I watch netflix at home like that's pretty much it Maybe i'm a weird standout character there, but that that's what I do whenever i'm watching shows I mean yeah, yeah, I'm I'm kind of with you too. I'm trying to think like airplane and uh Eileen is watching something different than I am and I'm tired. So I want to lay down in bed. That's yeah That's why I watch netflix on a phone That's about it. Yeah Trisha, I think you you absolutely changed my mind on ig tv I was kind of mildly optimistic about it. But now when now the more I think about it I'm like, yeah, what is the compelling reason to go in there? I'm sorry I didn't mean to dash your hopes and dreams. Um, but yeah, I mean it's It's really interesting to see so many of these digital companies Trying to be the next netflix, but I think that there is a profound difference between digital content that we see on a youtube or a facebook watch or a go 90 And digital content that we see on something like netflix or amazon prime or hulu originals In that one has the budget Normally of a major blockbuster film or major television show And the others are trying to have the same success on a more traditionally digital content budget And I don't know that that's fair for those platforms to pit themselves against each other I don't know the economist did a write-up on netflix in the most recent issue and one of the things they point out is that netflix makes more tv shows than any individual tv network And its production of 80 feature films is larger than any hollywood studio In fact, the increase in its original content budget for 2018 is bigger than hbo's total original content budget So they are throwing a lot of money at this Because they are not just trying to be one channel. They're they they have I can't remember exactly I think 22 that might even be too low But they have a number of different profiles that they target based on the viewing patterns that they've seen This is all about big data But instead of selling you to someone they use your viewing data to figure out how to tailor their original programming strategy If you look at netflix original sometimes and go who would watch that there is somebody. That's why netflix made it It's not you this time, but they made stranger things for you and a lot of other people may not like that Yeah, totally You know the funny thing about IGTV not to to to talk too much about IGTV Although I know it's on a lot of our minds because we're all content producers is I see more and more uh people who I Okay, I'll finish it really quick I I see more and more people who I already follow who do kind of short videos and and you know Are prolific on instagram and have a lot of followers being like go over to IGTV to see my other thing So it's like I know it's all the same platform But it does kind of turn into this like now i'm going to take you to a new place And I'm like I want to go to a new place. I already like the feed that I'm looking at Yeah, I like they have their work cut out for them and that's I want to move No, all right. Uh our last discussion As with every round table is one that was selected by folks on patreon who support us at the advisor level People can submit ideas and then the advisors vote on them and howard urmich Submitted this one and it was voted in by the rest of his advisors GDPR and small business and media creators Uh GDPR, of course, we've covered on the show a lot, but just as a refresher It's a european law that requires certain things about data management You have to give people the right uh to opt out of their data being collected You have to tell them what data is being collected and there's a number of other rules regarding that Also here in california They just passed the california consumer privacy act of 2018 which a lot of people are calling the GDPR of california It requires all businesses to disclose data. They collect and give consumers the chance to opt out of it having it sold I think what howard wants is hey, okay We hear how google is dealing with this We see all of the emails coming from the big companies telling us You know, we need your permission to keep collecting your data, etc Etc, but how about the small businesses and and us media creators? How are we dealing with GDPR or do we see any effect on it at all? And so I thought we could just go around the table I mean sarah and I both being on dts our Our reactions are probably going to be somewhat similar, but but shannon if you don't mind Could we start with you as far as the business?  As far as the media content goes, no Luckily we all of the content that we create and that we put out there Is made on some kind of third party platforms So most of the GDPR effects have come down to how those platforms are collecting data Not us since we are just putting that data out there and we're not You know, we don't have a mailing list. I don't I don't have any kind of personal collection of data except for like Uh, whatever is on patreon and that's about it But when it does affect us is when you know, we're selling items in the hack shop and uh, I just like lost my little earplug here But basically like we we sell products in the hack shop all the time and we are collecting data in that sense And since we are using a platform for our storefront We have to make sure that that storefront is GDPR compliant or else we would lose all of those sales In the european countries. So luckily, you know through working that with them for months unfortunately poor darin has been having like To spend hours upon hours just researching and making sure all of this information is working out correctly Luckily, it sounds like they are compliant and they are within all of the laws and specifications for GDPR in europe But unless you are collecting information yourself personally, I don't see how it would affect a youtuber Since you're just using the youtube platform, you know, you're not you're not Collecting any addresses or emails or credit card information unless you have your own storefront Yeah, you're you're assuming that youtube is is taking care of that for you. Basically. Yeah, basically. Yeah, trisha. What about you? Uh, I feel that the same way. I mean, I primarily create content for youtube and twitch as platforms And a lot of times i'm doing that for another production company that's then using youtube or twitch So it's so far removed from my step of the pro for my phase of the process that I don't see a lot of that and it's funny I was listening to shannon talk about things about you know, like a storefront and I thought well, you know I do sell merchandise, but I sell it through a company. So I would assume the responsibility is on them There I never see any of the addresses or any of the customers information personally So I hope that they're compliant. Um But yeah for me personally, there's not much of that maybe with the exception of people who Win any giveaways that I do or if I send out any Items as just rewards. Sometimes I do loyalty rewards for people who you know Hang out in my twitch chat for long enough my twitch viewers collect dragon scales And then they can trade in dragon scales for cool prizes And if it's a prize that needs to be snail nailed then I would have their uh address for that purpose only Um, but that kind of stuff happens so rarely and is so not a major part of what I do is my business that It doesn't even really affect it now watch. I'm saying that and I'll soon find out that there's some huge Thing that impacts me that I haven't even thought of but those are my initial thoughts Yeah, that's always my fear in in it's saying like I don't think it hurts me at all and then immediately after the show I'm like, oh wait, hold on. I missed something But but yeah for daily tech news show particularly it does affect us because we have a website dailytechnewshow.com and so that website because it takes comments collects user data So we have to have a disclaimer on that page that says click here and this will tell you what data is collected Now, thankfully Akismat and automatic Uh provide a really easy way to turn that on Akismat is a plugin if people don't know that that is anti spam And because it works with wordpress which is owned by automatic They're able to take you to a wordpress page that says this is what wordpress does And this site is doing what wordpress does because it's running wordpress So this is what you need to know and it's very limited data that you give there On the other hand, it is something that I had to think about and I had to you know I was already spending it so it didn't increase my money, but I had to spend I have to spend money on an akismat service To to be able to to use that part of the service. I could hard code it myself but my point is It does make running something yourself just a little bit more difficult And is going to encourage more people to say, you know what maybe I won't run my own server Maybe I'll just go and put it on this service. Maybe I'll I'll use one You know square space or something like that Maybe I'll just be on youtube and twitch because then they take care of that And I think it is going to have that kind of effect On the other hand, I don't know how much that effect is really going to be felt because most people are doing that already Just because they don't want to deal with the technological aspect of things but I do wonder if it will have Be a deterrent on people starting small web presences That they would have built themselves because they don't feel comfortable having their data shared with a larger platform But at the same time they don't want to go through the trouble of having to comply with all these laws It kind of reminds me of the recent story of the supreme court saying yes states U.S states can collect taxes from companies that are shipping to individual states, right? So if you're if you're in amazon or or or or an etsy or you know, whatever then You're established enough where well, you probably have to change some things But this isn't kind of ruin your business if you're an independent producer of I don't know makeup brushes whatever that's the only thing I have in front of me right now And you're you know, you're you're you're shipping to a variety of states And you have to think about local state taxes That might be a deterrent or at least something that you're not able to keep up with and yeah You might use a platform where you don't have to think about it So it kind of reminds me of this in a certain way and also what happens when you're not complying with data privacy Laws and You don't do that on purpose. For example, tom you mentioned, you know automatic and whatever the plugin was That was fairly easy for you to implement But what if you just sort of like didn't know that that was something that you were supposed to do And somebody says well, hold on. You're actually not complying with the law. It gets kind of tricky Yeah, exactly I'd be a beatmaster in our chat room is like on the other hand It makes you think about how to use and approach user data, which is not a bad thing Which I think in general I agree with as a principle, but it didn't change anything for me I didn't suddenly change the way I think about user data. I wasn't doing anything with this data I don't intend to do anything with this data.  I need to have a link to a policy. How do I go about doing that? Well, even nowadays like given that there have been so many Hacks and so many vulnerabilities and breaches of different companies user data It's not just gdpr that affects how people think about how they are collecting data But it's also how are you going to be perceived if there is a hack? And that might deter some smaller companies from wanting to collect anything in the first place Not even just gdpr. Yeah, sure No, that's absolutely true. Uh, and I think a lot of people may not realize that That that's part of the deal with the gdpr particularly is, you know, you have to Disclose any any data theft within a certain amount of time Exactly, you know now again, I'm not running the server out of my house I'm using a hosting provider and so that hosting provider will help me cover a lot of that side of things Because they manage the security of the site, but still it's it's another thing I I think it's more in principle than probably in effect that I think oh, it's too bad that there is one more hurdle to someone setting up their own thing on the internet because the original Promise of the internet is anybody in their house can connect to the internet and get going right and and just do everything themselves Whereas in practice most people don't do that anymore And and that's actually one of the reasons we're seeing problems on the internet is that lack of decentralization But I don't think this is the thing That solidifies the the centralization of the internet. That was already happening. Anyway, sadly Well, I hope that answers howards, uh questions and by all means howard or anybody else Who has more questions along these lines? Please send them to us feedback at daily tech news show.com We would like to thank our panel our roundtable panel. We do it once a month Let's start with you trisha hershberger So good to see you. It's been so long since I've personally seen you. So it's great to see you on the show Let folks know where where you've been You know producing work where they can keep up with it and how they can keep up with Everything you're doing from now until eternity Awesome. Well, first of all guys, thank you so much for having me on the show It was so lovely to sit here and chat tech with you guys for the past hour or so Um, if people want to find me online, they can do that on the social medias That girl trish with no eye in the girl Or on youtube.com slash trisha hershberger or twitch.com or twitch.tv. I'm sorry slash trisha hershberger And I try to take the show the youtube shows I'm producing for other channels and playlist them on my youtube channel And the twitch shows that I'm producing for other channels and host them on my twitch channel So I like to think those are like the home base hubs for all the stuff that I'm doing Um currently I do a show for new egg called new egg now every thursday morning at 10 a.m It's live to youtube facebook and on the new egg.com site and that show is basically just a discussion of some of the The coolest stuff that's new in tech as well as tech deals So if you're used to shopping at new egg, whether it's for home entertainment or pc components or mobile or smart home or whatever it is We usually theme each episode and then have deals on the products that we talk about so that's really fun and then I do a show For kingston technology called diy in five where I take More complex tech topics and break them down for the everyday user So you can have your water cooler conversation and sound like you're very knowledgeable about specific topics And that's a very quick five minute or less show And then I also do a video game show for geek and sundry called game engine every tuesday at 4 p.m Live on twitch on twitch.tv Slash geek and sundry so I keep busy and then I get to come talk to fun folks like you So again, thank you guys so much for having me. It was so great to see everybody Wow, I guess you are busy I'm like, I should probably do more shows. Um, thank you so much trisha Thank you so much for being here. It was a true pleasure Also, thank you to shannon morris who's with us pretty much every friday But it was a round table day It was so fun to have shannon talk a little bit more about electric scooters and all the rest shannon What's been going on with you and how can folks keep up? Thank you, sarah. It's super fun to talk to y'all every friday as well Well, almost every friday unless i'm on vacation which I am going on vacation in three weeks, but Yeah, I wanted to mention my new youtube channel that I just started working on It's a hobbyist channel and it's all about sailor moon. It's called sailor snubs And snubs is my online screen name if you didn't know so it's all about sailor moon news and reviews And now that I have a few videos up there. I'm comfortable publicizing it So I'm kind of getting the word out there and asking people to subscribe if they're into sailor moon So if you didn't know I'm obsessed and I have like a whole collection room going Which my husband's not too excited about but I'm having a blast. Yeah, what's not about him is it? That's right. He can just deal with it He enjoys seeing all the boxes on the front porch every day. So that's always enjoyable I love seeing the reactions whenever I get all this stuff in from japan But yeah, check it out. It's sailor snubs. You can find it on youtube youtube.com slash sailor snubs Hey Hey folks, if you'd like these roundtable shows we'd like to do them more often Our next patreon milestone is just about $2,500 away And we'll get us up to two roundtable episodes a month Plus if you join us on patreon, you become a member of the wider dts community with perks Like extended shows exclusive columns roger had a column that went out to the associate producer level earlier this week There's more like that at patreon.com slash dtns And if you have other ideas about what you want us to do or see or hear or I don't know any feedback at all email email still works feedback at daily tech news show.com is a great way to get a hold of us We are also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha geek radio Daily tech news show dot com slash live Well, I'll just go ahead and say alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv We have lots of options. All right, we'll be back on monday with jester robber young This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com And club hopes you have enjoyed this program Need to do a little tweak to the template there Oh Every round table every round table. I say I'll go in there and I'll tweak it and then I forget I'm doing it right Oh, are you are you doing it too? Okay? You can do it. No. No. No. I won't touch it if you're All right. I'm already on it. There we go. I only touch my templates for shows like twice a year Then I'm like, uh, if it's in there, whatever I'll get to it in like half a year That was great. Thank you so much again trisha Oh, thank you guys so much for having me. It was so nice to just sit here and chat about what's going on in the tech world with you guys I feel like all the shows I'm doing right now are so structured But it's nice to have a round table conversation Fantastic Great fantastic really well Very cool. Well, we're gonna sit around On the stream and and just bs and and name the show and stuff Which you're welcome to hang around for but we know people are busy So if you got to go absolutely go no worries either way Yeah, I I have a call actually with my youtube partner manager To try to figure out if I want to start producing content for my youtube channel again Like I said, it's kind of my overflow time, which I haven't had a lot of but so shannon kudos to you on the new channel Thank you Well, if you do end up starting up your personal channel again and you start doing stuff on there I do travel vlogs on my personal channel So I could always do a travel vlog and we could collab I would love that. Let's please please do that. So yeah, hopefully my uh I'm gonna talk to my youtube partner manager about all the new monetization stuff that youtube announced at vidcon and see if there's any way We can implement that and make that a thing Good luck. And if you if you really serious about doing the nerds with kids, let me know I am definitely serious about it. And that's what I thought.  That would be really fun. Oh, kitty. Yeah, just shoot me a availability availability slots Sammy wanted to say he thinks sailor snub sounds like He is so cute and fluffy. I love him.  He's technically a kitty, but he's really kind of an owl. Yeah He's here. Oh, I'm an owl All right guys Thank you so much Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll talk to you All right. All right. What should we call this show? We should call it We need a gdpr for scooters Ride It's a mashup title. I don't know. It just looks like Takes a lot for a me to like a mashup title Um Because we didn't really talk about gdpr for scooters People are fine with vertical You know what you're out of control Ride carefully This scoot well Yeah Again Ride carefully. Oh ride carefully. Yeah Wait, what is it showbot? showbot.chatrealm.net I would probably say something like scoot carefully Scoot carefully rather than because riot is That's We did kind of touch on the electric bikes, but yeah, I see what you're saying Magic scooter ride like magic scooter ride I like to dream What a magic magic scooter ride done it. Okay done. Let's make it. Let's make it Make it happen. Make it like a pineapple upside down cake Make it like a wi-fi pineapple Tances do the terms of service include kitty scooters You know, you can always tell like the cat person Shannon's like, I love what you said and like tom and roger like Yep, tom stretches That was amazing. Yeah, but involving cats I grew up with as a cat person and I definitely Say things for my dog all the time. So it's not like I don't get it Well, so Sam's sister had to go to the vet this morning and And everything, you know, she's you know, we're all good The funny thing is is that the cat because I never do them both at the same time because it's just too much The one that goes to the vet is, you know, not having the best day But the one who gets left behind is actually more upset Right, you know, because they're like you just kidnapped my sister, you know Like now what's happening? And so, you know, what I got back to the house. Yeah, he was beside himself You know, just howling. Yeah, so now he's like, okay, we're still a family He's adorable. He is Yeah Yeah, plus it's shedding season. So taking him to the vet and making him nervous makes him shed even more Yep, you should have seen the amount of fur like to the point where I was saying to the vet I'm really sorry She's like, it's okay. They're all doing this. It's the season. I'm like, I see it every I'm really sorry though.  It's like You can't like I could just brush them all day and the fur will continue to come off and it's like, they don't go bald I don't I don't know where it keeps coming from but it's just coming off in clumps Same.  It's amazing And then and the dogs like it too. They're like, oh, yeah, that feels good because it makes it makes them less hot It probably, you know Well, yeah, you know and you know the case of cats.  You're like really hot right now. This is now, uh, when I pulled out the the manual from the Roku People in the chat room started to be like, how how does he do it? He always seems to have the thing around that they're talking about I was actually going to ask the same thing like, come on. How do you I should I reveal how I think this works? Uh, yes, because you've already brought it up Or should I wait and make it a patron exclusive after we stop the video stream? Oh No, it's not mean Because it's like a magician telling his secrets in a way Right. Yes. That's exactly what it is. All right. Sure. Should I stop the broadcast? Zoe brings bacon is like, no, that's me But zoe you're a patron.  Yeah, zoe was like, should I should I put off eating to hear the secret? So wait, I'm not sure you're gonna be that excited with what the secret Actually is. No, exactly. We've built it up too much now.  That's it. Yeah, like, oh, you're not a magician. You just save things Cool. Well, roger you uh, you stopped the video whenever you feel it's appropriate. All right. Well, thank I was gonna say oh, thank you all for for tuning in. It was a great show great audience Good round table. It was it was really good. Thanks again to Trisha Hershberger. She was made Absolutely. It was awesome. Uh, and we'll see you monday