Call to order this is the fourth regular meeting of the 2011-2012 Common Council and our city clerk Sue Richards will read us Working together ordinary people can perform extraordinary feats They can push things that come into their hands a little higher up a little further on towards heights of excellence Thank You Sue roll call, please Belt here for an ear Carlson Decker here Here Heidemann here Rindflash here Racelor here Samson here Van Neckron excused Vanderwheel there and verse here 15 present. We have a quorum Everybody please stand and join alderman borne for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Jim looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting president Rindflash Thank You mayor I approve I move that we approve the previous minutes second We have a motion in a second to approve the previous minutes under discussion There is no discussion all in favor say aye aye opposed motion carries public forum sue Yes, first on our list is Dulcy Johnson Dulcy can I have your home address, please? 1306 North 3rd Street, Sheboygan and you will have five minutes. Thank you Mayor Ryan city attorney McLean city clerk Richards members of the council and citizens greetings from one of the so-called vocal minority I Am one of those citizens that Mayor Ryan has asked you not to listen to Who are the vocal minority? We are not city of Sheboygan employees living in Huatoma or Haika or the town of Wilson We are residents of the city of Sheboygan We are homeowners. My husband and I have owned our home in Sheboygan since 1965 We maintain our homes in good condition and we pay our property taxes on time We are responsible law abiding citizens. We vote Some of us are poll workers. I work at the poll in the Third Ward, which is where Mayor Ryan votes We follow issues by attending committee meetings asking questions and doing our own research But Mayor Ryan wants you to ignore us The converse of the vocal minority would be the silent majority Listening to the silent majority presents a considerable challenge to you Alderman If people are silent, how do you know what they think? How do you know that they do not think like the vocal minority? Indeed I meet people all the time at the grocery store or the post office or the recycling center or walking along the lake People I don't know who say to me I heard you speak at the council and I agree with you or thank you for speaking at the council You always do your homework Lately, I've been hearing you haven't spoken at the council for a long time or when are you going to speak at the council again? So why is the majority silent? Perhaps they feel they don't need to speak because the vocal minority is speaking for them Also, a lot of people find it very hard to speak in public or even write a letter But maybe they don't call their alderman because they are unaware of issues that the council is considering. I Served in the council from 1980 to 88 When I was on the council Mayor Susha read the summary of every document on the agenda So that citizens who listened on channel 8 would know the issues before the council a Lot of people watch the committee council meetings on channel 8 But now unless they have an agenda in their hand It is impossible for them to know what is happening because today the format goes like this Consent agenda documents 1 through 25 accepted and adopted Now if you're watching without an agenda, you may wonder what that was all about Granted many of the documents on the consent agenda are rather perfunctory and would not generate any discussion But there are times when an alderman questions the document or asks that to be singled out for a separate vote Or sometimes an alderman may ask to refer one of the documents back to the committee. I Have the greatest respect for our city clerk and the excellent work She and her staff do and I do not know the criteria for assigning documents to the consent agenda There may be very good reasons why certain documents are on the consent agenda and not under report of committee or reports of officers But I would encourage the greatest transparency in keeping the citizenry informed about issues before the council Moving on we come to documents 27 and 28 lie over and documents 29 through 40 to be referred Again, the listening public is left to wonder what those documents are all about There's no indication what committee a document has been referred to or the content of those laid over documents Often the next awareness the general public has about an issue is it when it appears on the next council agenda for passage Which is too late for public input Now it is true the council agenda is available to the public via computer or at the city clerk's office before the Monday night meeting But not every citizen has a computer or it can drive to City Hall to get an agenda The city clerk's office has become accustomed to me appearing late Friday afternoon or early Monday morning before a council meeting To get a copy of the agenda so I can follow the proceedings on channel 8 get copies of documents that interest me and learn What committee a document is referred to so I can follow up on issues But when I do not attend committee meetings and I reference the minutes of some committee meetings The minutes are so abbreviated that I think I'm reading the agenda Also during my years on the council many more documents were referred to the committee of the whole Which met every other Monday and at which time citizens were allowed to speak on issues As you begin a new council year I ask that you consider changing the format of council meetings So that those who listen on channel 8 can have a greater awareness of issues True your meetings will be longer than 17 minutes But your constituents will be better informed and hopefully also more engaged which obviously is something you should be encouraging I also encourage you to have more committee of the whole meetings And that those who record the minutes of the various committees add some flesh to the minutes So that those who reference them can be informed about the discussion and understand why a document was approved or filed or denied Finally, I ask that you do not turn a deaf ear to the so-called vocal minority We are concerned citizens who are informed about the issues We are city residents homeowners taxpayers voters and your constituents as much as the silent majority Thank you Next on the list would be hamilton watt Hamilton you want to give me your home address, please? 2513 south 8 You might want to pull that mic up make it a little There you go south 8th it is 2513 8 south 8th street shabuigan 53081 Thank you. Um I know this subject is divided as Madison and washington and politics these days, but It's regarding smoking smoking in taverns to these smoke rooms Excuse me wrong glasses Dear all the persons and council members The reason i'm writing this and i'm here to testify Is my deep concern regarding the new and old smoking rooms ordinance verbiage And how it has affected me other tavern owners who have already Completed construction and owners who will be applying for permits in the future At this time i strongly urge i'm strongly urging you not to not To not vote or pass any ordinance relating to this these rooms until you read The attached letter from godfrey and con law firm out of madison Who represent the tavern league of wisconsin which in essence finds a new proposed ordinance the city has rewritten And about and about to vote on does not comply or mirror state law and is more restrictive than state law intended My request and recommendations number one Write an ordinance that is concise and simple terminology that laymen Or non lawyers can understand and that follows the intent and or mirrors state law 25 of two walls open to the outside air the new ordinance you are considering as 25 of all four walls Is not realistic Defies common sense because tavern generally only have two walls to work with that have access to outside air You can't open the two walls on the inside of the building And requiring them to add up all that square footage to be opened on just two walls is a security risk There's too much glass that could be broken and in general way too cost prohibitive for most tavern owners I believe the state lawmakers understood this when they wrote it I strongly believe alderman hannah's grandfather clause proposal Should not be deleted and should be adopted as long as these rooms Have been constructed mirror parallel state law As these owners engaged architects paid the fees were issued permits spent thousands of dollars already And past building instruction inspection codes Therefore i'm i'm trying to understand why in all common sense integrity and logic Why the city bureaucrats are consistently rewriting this ordinance and why they just can't write the verbiage exactly it is As it is on page two of the attached letter from godfrey and con law firm, which i believe you all have As it is exactly what the state lawmakers wrote and passed the ordinance move on Be done with this once and for all That's all the time i'm going to take up of you. Um, there's a Following two pages of my personal story and how i got to where i am. Thank you very much Thank you. Hamilton Okay, that is all for public forum We will move on to the mayor's announcements Uh, first of all, I would like to uh congratulate some people in the council chambers this evening um Alderman carlson, I had the pleasure of attending a uw sheboygan scholarship Uh presentation the other evening and uh, alderman carlson was granted a scholarship to uw sheboygan Also, um The young professionals coastal connections had a presentation First of all, there were 10 individuals nominated countywide For the young professional of the year and the young entrepreneur of the year there were 10 people selected across the county Uh three of who? Have some connection to the city One is chat pelisheck Our own economic development manager in the city Um, second is patrick drinan who is the executive director of our scedc And the third was alderman hamond Who also happened to take the award? For the young professional of the year for sheboygan county, so i'd like to congratulate alderman hamond But it's uh, it is uh I think notable that we have three young professionals That are connected in some way to the city and working for the city. I think that tells us about our future Um, what I have this written on is the twilight concert series at fountain park schedule um This is the latest version of the schedule. There were some conflict conflicting, uh Reservations of the park, but these begin wednesday june 15th Through thursday august 25th. They are mainly wednesdays thursdays and friday evenings. Uh, these are available I believe they are. I know they're in the mayor's office. I don't know if we have them online yet chat They're available also in the planning department and also at tourism So this is the new schedule. I advise everybody to take advantage of this. We have some Good bands this year. Of course these sheboygan pops that we have every year But then we have some other bands strawberry jam band dave steffen band music jar Sly joe and the smooth operators kind of a good mix this year and that's at fountain park in the evenings So please take advantage of that One thing I'd like to speak about tonight is uh neighborhood associations We are forming neighborhood associations and I think it is imperative that alderman take part In neighborhood association meetings for their that that fallen in their districts As we all know, um the eerie or rather the gateway neighborhood The neighborhood association is often running and we've seen some great success in cleaning up the gateway neighborhood We also have The cooper cleveland neighborhood association, which is forming The ellis historic Neighborhood and the eerie hill neighborhood these these four are are getting off the ground I believe it is uh, you know, I try to take part in these when I can I think it's it's very necessary that alderman get involved In neighborhood associations in in the neighborhoods that fall within their districts I think it sends the right message to the people in the district This weekend cooper cleveland is doing a door-to-door survey that will be this saturday We'll start at 10 o'clock At st. Peter church on geely avenue And run to one o'clock if any alderman would like to help with that or any citizens Basically you go around the neighborhood and it's a checklist of asking people what their concerns are in the neighborhood, etc What they feel about the neighborhood and what can be improved in their neighborhood Also, this saturday gateway neighborhood has a neighborhood cleanup that is beginning at Little red school house. I believe the little red school house community center That will begin at nine o'clock a.m. With the cleanup and will be followed by a neighborhood block party That neighborhood block party. I know there were a couple hundred people there last year this year. They're planning on five to six hundred people Get them to gateway neighborhood cleaned up and have a neighborhood block party The gateway neighborhood is turning into a great success for the city of shabuagan With everything with the the neighborhood policing Shabuagan neighborhood pride praise fellowship. Everybody's come together We've spent a lot of money Grant money lighting up the alleyways. I think we've done up to 80 facade grants on different properties in that neighborhood There's a noticeable difference in that neighborhood when you go through there now It's vastly improved and I think we have more neighborhoods in need in this city So I urge all of them to get involved um Wednesday may 18th this wednesday is the national employee health and fitness day This is a courtesy information courtesy of of course alderperson kittleson um the Representatives of every department on the wellness committee should have a sign-up sheet after people exercise A minimum of 20 minutes on wednesday may 18th to sign up these will be submitted and I think we'll get ourselves a I don't know freestyle climbers But I wanted everybody to be aware of this courtesy of gene Also, we have here today, uh, who I would like to have come up and speak to everybody Phoebe for net. Is it for net or for nay For a net you never know. Uh, Phoebe is with uh university of wisconsin. Hi there, please Thank you all for giving me a few minutes to speak with you today I'm coming here from the survey of the health of wisconsin. We're a program at the university of wisconsin school of medicine and public health We visit 72 different neighborhoods each year measuring the health of adults in the state And we will be starting to work in sheboygan next week We've been in operation since 2008 and visited 63 of the counties around the state since then We have about 2,000 participants At this point and we've visited sheboygan in 2009 and 2010 and we're visiting again this year We're an ongoing program. So i'm i'm hoping and pretty sure that we'll be visiting again down the road A total of 70 residents in the city have been uh have taken part in uh previous years and Our effort is endorsed by your county health department when we've Visited with health officer hip and steel and we've been hosted by the health department in the past I just wanted to uh let you know a little bit more about the survey Households for the survey about 30 will be invited to take part. They're randomly selected Participants receive 95 dollars and some free health tests The first year in the survey involves three steps An in-home interview a questionnaire booklet about health history And a visit to an exam center for some additional interviews and some health measurements like blood pressure and height and weight After this our participants are followed over time To update us on changes in their health All of the participation is completely voluntary and confidential Um our survey takes a pretty holistic examination of health and what impacts health Um, we look at personal health history and habits We also examine environmental and social impacts on health and we take some objective physical Measurements as well I'll skip a little bit of this our recruitment all of our households are randomly selected as I mentioned We do some PR work in the community That's me. Um, we send some mail to um homes to let the selected homes know that They've been uh invited to participate and then our survey team comes to town and knocks on doors So we our survey team will be enjoying beautiful sheboygan next week. We'll be working in may in june Um, our data is not driven by any particular hypothesis It's actually meant to provide a current and actually accurate Monitoring of the adults and this of the health of adults in the state Um and our data is shared openly with researchers and policy makers local health departments To build knowledge about health issues in the state and to more efficiently and accurately address health issues In in addition to our core survey We also conduct contracted research around the state our infrastructure allows for Communities to conduct local health research that would otherwise be quite difficult Currently, we're conducting a dental screening for the state department of health. We are also conducting some Surveys in wood and lacrosse counties to evaluate some of their health promotion interventions They are doing some get active projects Um and for those projects will be doing some household visits some physical measurements And we'll also be collecting information on social built and nutrition environments So i'm here today to inform you about the survey. I hope you get to know us better I have Some flyers. I'm hoping to pass out if you have a minute to tack one up in your neighborhood cafe or Convenience shop that would be wonderful I'll also send an email along with a blurb that if you're interested in sharing information about show You could share with your contacts and i'm open to Any questions that you might have by email to i'll be passing out my business card So thank you so much for giving me a few minutes today. We're looking forward to Starting work in shaboy again Thank you, fee me. Thank you One other thing under mayors announcements. Just a reminder to every all property owners The city's new Uh Scale for penalties building inspection penalties goes up june 1st Just so everybody's aware of it. It's been well publicized in the shaboy again press and on whbl but The amount of fines can are going up up to triple Of what they were come june 1st for building code violations Just so everybody is aware of it I used to be that we would have some property owners that it was easier to pay $200 and it was to Fix the problem. The idea is not to penalize people The idea is to get properties up to code and to make our city a more beautiful place to live in So just so everybody's aware of it. It's another reminder. So it's out there That's all I have for mayors announcements consent agenda president rinflesh Thank you, mayor I move that we accept and file all report of officers accept and adapt all report of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances In the consent agenda documents 4-1 to 4-25 Second we have a motion and a second to pass the consent agenda 4-1 through 4-25 under discussion If there is no discussion Don't call please I Lauren I Carlson Decker Hammond I Hannah I Heidemann I kath I kiddleson I mana check I rinflesh. Hi racler. Hi samson. Hi bander wheel I and versi. Hi Motion carries communications and petitions 4-26 to be referred Reports of officers 2 4 27 and 4 28 will lie over until june 6 Reports of officers 2 4 29 through 4 40 will be referred Resolutions introduce 3 4 41 by alderman hamond authorizing a contribution to the shabuagan county economic development corporation for business development alderman hamond Thank you, mr. Mayor. First. I'd like to ask that we could suspend the rules on this one Second you have a motion in a second to suspend the rules discussion on suspending the rules only Um, this is something that we've already budgeted for they've just requested it now And we want to be able to pay it out to them so that they can do the work they do Is there any opposition to the rules being suspended? The rules are suspended. Please continue. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion if I may just Reiterate what all what alderman hamond said this was budgeted in our last year's budget for the scedc And they are just requesting payment now, so Is there any discussion If there is no roll call, please Foreign I carlson. Hi decker. Hi hamond. Hi hanna. Hi. Hi koth. Hi kittleson. Hi matticec. Hi Rindflash. Hi racer. Hi samson. Hi van der wheel. Hi versi. Hi and belt Hi Motion carries 442 by alderman hamond Rindflash boran matticec and van akron rescinding 2010 personal property taxes for assessment number<PHONE_NUMBER>6 alderman hamond Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move the resolution be put upon its passage second A motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Alderman boran Thank you, mayor ryan For the public's benefit. I was wondering if The city assessor could let the rest of the council know what the what where this property is Or chairman hamond. It's all right Alderman hamond. Can you answer that? I think the city assessor is here You're looking for address now. It's personal property taxes not real property taxes, right? I understand but We're rescinding we're rescinding taxes. Sometimes that can be a little Essentially was taxes that should have been charged in the first place Um There were some reports that didn't come back and it turns out they didn't have any personal property at that location at all And so we've never they've never paid us We don't hold them anything. It's just rescinding that Good with that alderman barn. Does the city assessor have an address or what the name of that firm was? Or Concern, I knew it was that I had it at finance, but I didn't jot it down But I thought maybe the public should know seeing where rescinders He said he doesn't have that with him It's uh 623 dollars and 75 cents Is there any further discussion? There is no roll call. Please Carlson. All right, jacker. Hi Hammond. Hi Hannah. Hi. Hi to men. Hi. Hi kiddleson. Hi manager. Hi Rindflash. Hi raceler. Hi Samson. Hi van der wheel. Hi versi. Hi Belt. Hi and boron. Hi 15 eyes Motion carries 443 by alder persons Hammond Rindflash born manachek in van akron authorizing the city of shabuigan to enter into a contract For buildings in property insurance coverage alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion to second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion president rindflash There is a time constraint issue on this in terms of covering the property of the insurance I just want to make it known though that I would like it to go out to bid next year In appropriate time constraint that we could go out for bids and see if there is something better or not I think the rate is pretty good, but I don't have comparisons. I really don't know But again because times an issue i'm going to support at this point in time, but I asked the finance go for uh for next year for uh for For quotes. Thank you. I would think there was some type of a vetting process on this Okay, right Others did go through syph mick which is our insurance carrier so just We can if you'd like to go out for bid next year Any further discussion If there is no roll call, please Decker Hammond Hanna Heidemann Cot Kittleson Manichek Rindflash Racelor Sampson Vanderweel Versi Belt Boren Carlson 15 ayes Motion carries Okay, moving on here four dash 44 by alderpersons. Racelor, versi, Kittleson, Decker and Sampson Sampson lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire three Police officers in the police department alderman racelors. Thank you, mr. Mayor First, I'd move to suspend the rules second We have a motion to second to spend the rules under discussion on suspending the rules only It's already budgeted positions Is there anybody opposed to suspending the rules? There is none the rules are suspended. I'd move to put the resolution upon its passage Second We have a motion and a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion alderman Boren Thank you, mr. Ryan I'm going to support this tonight and I appreciate all of the innovations that chief domigalski Has done in the in the police department since he's been here about a year and a half But in order to be consistent with what I said when we were going to hire Fire fire paramedics I'm all in favor of hiring these people But again at and I think you referenced this in the minutes of the committee meeting mayor that In order to maintain these people Just as I said when we were hiring the fire fire paramedic that we expect our labor partners in the fire department to step forward With contributions to their health insurance and the wisconsin retirement fund I would expect also that in order to maintain these people in tough budget times That I also would expect the police officers unions To step forward for 2012 and do the same thing. Thank you Thank you alderman boren, and I concur with your comments any further discussion There is no further discussion roll call, please Hammond hi Hannah Heidemann hi cod hi kittleson hi madachek Hi rindflash hi racer hi samson hi vander wheel hi versi hi belt hi boren hi carlson hi and decker hi 15 eyes motion carries 445 by alder persons racelor versi kittleson decker and samson Lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire seasonal help in the city development department aka an intern Alderman racelor. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I again move to suspend the rules Motion to second under discussion on suspension of the rules only Is there anybody opposed? President rindflash not opposition yet. Just clarification on Why suspension now and not waiting for two weeks in the normal process. Alderman racelor I think it's for seasonal employees, and we're trying to get this moving as soon as possible to get Um chat his help and and get moving on a lot of projects that we have What we're looking for is a college level intern and obviously those folks are getting out of school, son Under discussion on suspending the rules suspension Okay, is there anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? Rules are suspended. Please continue. I move to put the resolution upon its passage second We have a motion to second to put the rules under upon its passage under discussion alderman boren Thank you, mayor ryan. I didn't see in the minutes from the salary and grievance committee meeting Is this uh intern going to be a schedule x employee that's going to be limited to 600 hours? Yes, so we don't have to pay salary and benefit uh benefits Thank you. Any further discussion There is no further discussion roll call, please. Oh, we just had somebody beeping in alderman samson Thank you, mr. Mayor. I apologize for that I actually think this is something that we decided to do because it actually could provide A bit of cost savings for the city based on replacing Some contracted work and if anybody would like to discuss the numbers. I think if uh chance here you can go over some Minor details of that, but I believe we can actually save Some money by doing this and provide chad to help that he needs on a very regular basis And the purpose of this is to relieve some of our Contracts out there some of our consulting labor that we're paying which is quite expensive and to Get uh chad pelishek some some assistance To that we can do a lot of this in-house rather than paying consulting fees which are are quite high Would anybody like to hear chad speak on this? Sorry chad Okay, any further discussion There is no roll call, please 15 eyes motion carries 446 by alderpersons racelor versi kittleson decker and samson authorizing the city of shaboyan To establish and maintain participant roth deferral features beginning july 1st 2011 Under the state of wisconsin deferred compensation program alderman raceler Thank you, mr. Mayor. I moved to put the resolution upon its passage second We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Motion carries 4-47 lies over 4-48 to be referred Report of committee 7 4-49 to be referred Reports of committees 9 4-50 by finance recommending creating section in the municipal code Relating to deferral of a portion of certain second-side water main special assessments For single-family residential corner lots in an s5 zoning district and passing the attached substitute ordinance Alderman Hammond Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that this reported committee be referred back to finance second We have a motion in a second to refer this back to finance Alderman Hammond. Thank you under discussion There this also went to public works. There were some concerns there. There's been some other concerns I want to make sure we hammer out a good policy. So i'm asking that it goes back to finance so we can discuss it next Monday, great Okay, all in favor of sending this back to finance say aye. Aye opposed to finance it goes 451 By public protection and safety recommending repealing and recreating a section in the municipal code relating to appeals of the 2,000 foot minimum requirement of the sex offender residency restrictions So as to provide for the common counsel to to decide the appeal Thank you, mr. Mayor vice president decker. Thank you. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Second We have a motion in a second to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion Alderman kittleson Thank you, mayor. Thank you We had a lengthy discussion about this topic in our last public protection and safety meeting And as chairman of the committee, I I would like to let counsel know that I would not be in favor of changing this ordinance Simply because I feel very confident that we have a good process in place in in dealing with these waivers We have very good support from our police department. We have excellent support from our county agents Support from our our assistant city attorney chuck adams who's there at every meeting I feel that they are giving us the guidance That we need in order to make The very best decisions we can regarding this very Important topic here I guess a great suggestion was made rather than changing The ordinance a great suggestion was made by alderman versi that when these waivers do come through that at the city clerk's office if they could Put the district that the waiver is is the person asking for the waiver is intending to reside It would allow the alderman Let the alderman know just what district that the Person was wishing to move to then that alderman could of course Be more than welcome to come to attend the committee meeting and partake of in the discussion To I'd be more than happy to have them partake of the discussion give their input and they would know What the process is that we that we go through when deciding where to place To place these people so I would Ask council members to vote no to keep the ordinance as it is and keep the process in place that we are currently using Thank you. Thank you, alderman person. Alderman versi. Thank you, ma'am I'm not in supporting this because one big thing everything miss Alderman kill since then I reflect on as exactly But also this is bogging down government worse than already is this is slowing us down Even more than what it is. I believe in efficiencies. This is not the efficient way of doing it The way we do it now is very efficient The professionals need the time even though it's only five days extended. Well, that's five days that these People disappear. So I'm not supporting this and I urge other people not to support it for Numerous reasons and the ones miss kills and said and also Trying to keep government more efficient. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman versi Alderman samson Mr. Mayor Yeah, just just to go on I think the the whole process that we have in place right now is certainly adequate for what we need It is a very important issue That we we're addressing in a very Effective manner at this point the process that goes behind providing all this information that comes from a couple of different sources Is is unbelievable and that's just going to the five or so people on the on the committee that we have at public protection and safety to take it And multiply that by the number of all the persons that we have here To provide it to any number of other folks that need it I think just going to create far more work than is necessary. I think we're opening up a bit of a Kind of worms so to speak if we do bring this to the council a lot of this information can be made available to the public I don't think the council has to be driving that information There's a lot of other folks that are involved in this time money That comes out of taxpayers dollars somewhere down the road i'm sure So I think the process that we have is is quite effective And I'm going to vote against this as well tonight. I think there's as alderperson kiddison said I think a pretty viable Alternative to this by providing the address so that the older older persons can actually effectively I guess represent their constituents like I think the issue is the primary issue So I would urge the rest of my the members of the council if you haven't already decided I would I would hope that you decide to vote against this and look at alternative ways to To accomplish the same thing. Thank you. Thank you alderman sampson president rindflesh. Thank you, mr. Ma My take on this is a little bit different having been on law and licensing for a while and been chair of that committee Where there too the committee makes does the analysis interviews people that are affected by license a tavern or a art tender or what have you And especially with new licenses it goes we can ask the neighborhood. I mean it impacts life quality of life and the neighborhood By having a new tavern or or a new Restaurant or a new store or something now the committee make recommendations but ultimately that that committee's recommendations voted upon either within The consent agenda here or we do a separate vote especially in denials and allow the person who's been denied to come back and make amendments And my take of that is is that well most of the work and vast majority of the time This council defers to the work done in the committee and I thank them. I support them for making that decision But what that does mean though is that three people on a committee of five can't deny A license for no good reason or can't approve a license when the neighborhood may be against it Perhaps those three elder persons don't represent that neighborhood And it's up to this council then to decide to either you know On an appeal if you will to override that the recommendation or not it happens rarely, but it does happen occasionally When we initially discussed this I was not in favor because of the having sat on ppns and haven't gone through These waivers. There's a lot of information that needs a lot of information that is Confidential especially victim information and things like that That really can't be discussed can't be brought forward to this council 16 There is time factor and certainly department corrections when they are releasing to the Temporary living facilities where they can better watch Offenders and make sure they don't offend again I think that time is of the essence in that aspect and should be dealt with quickly At that committee level and I would definitely be happy. We willing to Make an amendment to this to say you know Those are exceptions to the rule and that can this is can be made just in that committee, but I do think that Representing a neighborhood that has had sex offenders released into it that aren't coming out of TLPs Aren't coming out of department of corrections. They've already done their time. They've already done their Their therapy and what have you They're not part of department of corrections They're simply moving from one neighborhood to another neighborhood than on a sex offender list To have three all the persons who may not live in my neighborhood decide that they can go ahead and move in my neighborhood without any input For me now the address is certainly one way that That okay, they can notify each all the person that something's going to happen and we can go to that committee meeting But I don't have a vote in that committee So in this case, I do support this Amendment and to support it now if it does happen to pass I would look at Amending it perhaps an allowing department of corrections to for those going to the two TLPs to to bypass this procedure and time guesses and release them directly to that aspect My right my my guess is that it's not going to pass today based on Conversations I've had so I will hold the amendments to save time But I do think that it's all important that there is an appeal process that all 16 older persons do have the rights either Grant approval or to deny approval given Especially for the things of people living in their neighborhood. So I will support this at point in time But if it does pass like I said, I would look at making some changes as well. Thank you Thank you president red flesh alderman Hammett. Thank you, mr. Mayor For those for the sake of those listening out in tv land What we're discussing is a currently we have a 2000 foot requirement for Registry if you're around a school or someplace where kids might congregate and there's an exception process that can be made for those Um People if they want to move into one of those restricted areas I guess my question would be maybe alderman kiddelson You can explain a little bit of the process that happens now so people can get an idea What it's like now what how these appeals are made and what it would be going to and just as you know my opinion I'm concerned about the privacy. Um, that's specifically of the offender, but more so the victim So if you wouldn't mind alderman kiddelson Thank you Explain the process what we do what how how we handle things right now the appeal comes in what happens the appeal comes in We we get it Our our police officer then gives us information right then and there at the committee meeting about what the offense was How long ago it occurred that type of thing we have we take five Or 10 minutes to read through it and then we also have a list of questions that we Ask the person does come in they tell us their story Many times they'll have support a support person with them. They'll have a list of support letters We need to listen to each case On an end of it. We need to listen and make a judgment on on each individual case because they're so varied the different things that come in into the committee it's it's We hear all kind we hear many different stories and It's things sometimes you may have to go into closed session with things sometimes not It's just it's just a varied Array of things that we listen to and and many You know you have to base your I try to base my opinion on how long ago the offense was what That type of thing What the what their support system is now? How they're what they're doing to to rehabilitate themselves and I guess each member committee member at has to weigh those same things And those are the that's what we do and then we vote If we will allow them to move or not Thank you. Thank you all to person kittleson alderman hammond. I was gonna Please so you guys vote and then that's where it ends Correct after you guys voted yay or nay that's After we vote then the police are our police officers take the information back and I believe they're the ones also that A report should be given to them as to from the The minutes of the of the meeting right now they get the report and they they know What has happened in the committee and they I believe they do monitor that somewhat I believe if we could ask our police chief to come and address that as well I think he would he would know that as well. Thank you Thank you Alderman hammond A lot of person kittleson Alderman hammond Thank you. Mr. Bayer. I was past chairman of that committee Wanted to assure alderman hammond that Victims names Are always anonymous completely protected and all the medical history of the pervert trader again That's helping the confidence So if this did get passed There'd be very seldom when we have to go into closed session Alderman hammond alderman karlson. Thank you. Mr. Mayor alderman hannah. Excuse me I was one of the three that uh voted to bring this to the council floor But um, I guess over the the weekend I I gave it a lot more thought Being new to the council and new to the committee. I wasn't fully aware of actually how everything worked At its core. I think it's a great idea because it does allow everyone their vote and to represent their districts However, um, like I said after further thought in its current state I I no longer support it, but I do agree with the president in regards to an appeal process I think that if we um, if it doesn't pass tonight, we I think we need to take another look at it and bring it back And just in a uh different state. Thank you Thank you. Alderman karlson other person kittleson Thank you, mayor And I believe yes, we we do we we do go into closed session at the committee level And we haven't gone into closed session all that much and I believe it's because we have our assistant city attorney there Help guiding us to if we do ask a question He will step in there right away and say you need to ask that in closed session So he helps us in very much guiding the process To know what we are able to ask and not ask in in open or closed session. Thank you Thank you all the person kittleson alderman samson Thank you, mr. Mayor. I think another just kind of adding on to alderman hammond's uh concerns about the privacy issues Privacy is of the utmost importance for us That's why a lot of the information is anonymous names are but if you start bringing this more to a public nature such as the council Everybody here everybody in the tv world We got we got to think in consideration to the victim Maybe old enough That judges up all the information again judges up all this issue again So the victim maybe in all these cases Can be just just just bring all these these issues back to the forefront with themselves and their families So I guess maybe not so much a privacy issue But more of just bringing all this back to the forefront that they have to deal with on their own So that's another thing that maybe we should consider too Alderman versi Okay, mr. Mayor Just one last thing to also is all those packs that those five members and ppns get we don't see You start bringing that to the council now everyone here Plus the shabuagan press and any other media source is getting those same packs now So there's not the you know quick we had to go in a closed session. You can't ask that it's already out Everyone knows it So I mean that's where it becomes kind of the can of worms that alderman samson was talking about earlier is You're opening that up You're opening the council you're opening the city up for more liability, which becomes an issue I guess in my book and that's why keeping it in the committee of five You have every alderman has a chance to go to every meeting I in the past year have gone frequent in ppns quite a bit when I I only recognize the names The addresses they will be putting on there. They've already the Corrections will put the addresses on without an issue So we don't have to make any laws any changes with that they will do that So we all will know we may have to look at it and be present if it's in your district Or in you go and yes, it's still up to the five members But you can voice your opinion to them Raise concerns and also debate your issue right then and there in front of the offender himself, so Thank you alderman versi. Um, I'll just yeah I was on the public protection protection and safety committee for quite a few years and actually when this ordinance was passed And you know the the purpose of this ordinance is before this we didn't know exactly where the sex offenders were going in the community Now we do um the purpose of this is that If The people that are admitted into the community is sex offenders and there are various types of sex offenders So the so-called Romeo and Juliet where you have an 18 year old kid with a 16 year old Um, which is much different than a middle-aged pedophile much different But the purpose of this is to to know where these offenders are That is that was the purpose of the ordinance and I think it's done very well as it stands right now in that in that respect Um, you know, I I live two blocks away from one of the TLPs You know, I've got a yeah, I've got a teenage daughter and two younger kids at home I think this committee's done a great job doing what it's doing The fact of the matter is is that if people aren't from here It didn't commit their crime here. They don't come back here And that's part of what the committee understands Are the only people that are brought back into the community are people that are from here Also, this committee I was on it where if you have somebody that is a A pedophile and wants to move in with his girlfriend and her young children I've been on this committee before where they've been refused to do so That's the purpose of the committee and I think the committee does a good job at that I don't you know, I think the committee's done a fine job in its present form Um, you know, I I do worry about the uh, the confidentiality of the information in such a large format Um, but you know, I'm just saying that I feel the committee itself has done a fine job with this president rinflash Thank you, mr. Mayor And I certainly agree. I think the committee has done a fine job It's not a pleasant committee to be on when these issues come up as a father of both the daughter and the stepson You think about these things all the time And not only your particular neighborhood, but all the neighbors in the city, you know, you go online You can see they're out there You can see the maps of who's in your neighborhood and so on and it's a scary factor But I think we need to really focus on the fact there's really two things I don't think the ordinance was was really written Understanding that there's there's two ways that the committee is really dealing with it and the one Probably most common is with the department of corrections anybody that's been on the committee understands The department of corrections really doesn't want to dump anybody and forget about them They would partner very well with the city to make sure that the citizens the neighbors are protected They are also very concerned about making sure that they know where everybody is Because the chances of it reoffending are pretty strong and they'd rather get them for violations of Being in a tavern or having a friend over before they actually offend again And and submit them back. That's not the issue. I'm dealing with and that's why I would like to see perhaps of being rewritten and allow Those issues that are dealing with the department of corrections and someone being released out of jail into their control And watch to continue the current process. I think it works very well And I think we partner very well with the department of corrections with that aspect But there are offenders that Have no longer any dealings with the department of corrections And they are on the sex offender registry and they are living in a particular, you know home They've been there for a while and wants to relocate Those do not go through department corrections. They don't have any statements in those meetings. They take no Side in that debate because they're not being dealt with in that level And that's where I think that that appeal Is important that it comes back to this full council because Someone that is not being controlled not being On probation not being watched necessarily except for are they following the the registration requirements of the committee By listing their current like address, excuse me I think that more than three people should be able to decide that And for someone to to move to say well, I'm on a sex offender registry. I live in one bedroom. I want a two bedroom apartment They're not being watched by Department of corrections or the police My answer to that is that's fantastic You're certainly welcome to move to a two bedroom apartment outside the city And I think that's where the the license that comes from and that I should be able to have a voice in that Yes, I can go to the committee meeting as is and to say my voice if I don't have a vote there And law and license saying all 16 members do have a vote despite the fact of not really hearing all the issues that's only in those rare occasions of Of an appeal which hopefully would just be rare not hearing every issue It's not be hearing with one of the department of corrections So I do think that it needs to perhaps be re-looked at and focused on just those issues that aren't being done with the doc But I still think it's important that at least an appeal process That there's another level that the neighbors can go to beyond the committee of five And that that would be the full council is important to have so with that. Thank you Thank you president rinflesh Okay, I have no more lights up here Is there any further discussion before we vote on this issue? Okay. Um, what we have here is a Recreation of the municipal code in other words, it's to to amend the municipal code In I vote or yes vote will be to amend the municipal code A no vote will be to Keep the the code as it is in the process as it is Is there any further discussion? Roll call, please Cuth no No, try again. Was it a no. No. Thank you Kittleson. No Maddachak. Nope No That's a no Rinflesh. Hi Raceler. No Samson. No Vander wheel. No Versi. No Belt. Oh Boren. No Carlson. No Decker. Hi Hammond. No Hannah. Yes Heidemann. Yes Four eyes 11 nose Motion fails Moving on 452 By salary and grievances recommending repealing and recreating a section in the municipal code Related to the composition of the city's collective bargaining committee and passing the attached substitute ordinance Alderman raceler. Thank you, mr. Mayor I move to accept and adopt the rc and put the substitute ordinance upon passage with three amendments We could take out the sub in section after section one Can we have a second on putting it upon its passage first? Okay, we have a motion and a second on putting it upon its passage under discussion Alderman raceler. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd move to amend it removing the sub under After section one period the sub would be removed. There would be section two dash 629 and get rid of the b And then at the the next Pair and b would get rid of as well because right now it currently conflicts with section a that we have And there's nothing deleting section a so this would just actually be the whole Um ordinance because otherwise it would conflict if I spoke with the train clean Is that one amendment? One, okay. Do you want to do it again? So one amendment is a Is to is to remove the sub And just make it the word section. Can can you read what that sub is? You mean are you talking the whole substitute ordinance take away this whole thing? No, no Just some grammatical corrections for um the I think it was city clerk's issue on this one. So I don't think so Under under section one period remove sub Oh, just put it section. Okay, two dash six nine two Get rid of the b. Okay, and then the next full paragraph below get rid of the b Before for purpose. Oh just for purpose right now. We just make this Um the whole new section correct attorney clean Steve Thank you, mayor. Yes the uh Right now there's an a and a b a is the general composition b was created for Negotiations beginning january 1 2010. So that was the distinction between a and b this substitute is Uh had taken out the language that was in the original ordinance For calendar years 2011 and 2012 So the way I read it it would be to make it permanent that this would be the Makeup of the committee But Right now a subsection a has a make up of the committee That is different than b and if they're both in effect looking permanent you've got an ambiguity in the ordinance so if the intent is to adopt What's written in the text here at b really you want to repeal the entire Current a and b and adopt this language as the new section That's hopefully that's clear Very clear right there Okay, uh, we are speaking on this amendment which appears to be nothing more than a language error Um, we will discuss just this amendment only at this point So we don't get confused because I think alderman raceler has two more amendments Coming correct. I'm good. You're good. Yeah, I just needed three things cleaned up in there Okay, it's three things to get cleaned up in there under discussion on the amendments We have a second on the amendments. Okay, attorney mclean. We have a motion and a second on amending Just to make it clear currently subsection a of two dash six ninety two Says accept the set forth and subsection b the collective bargaining committee consists of director of human resources The appropriate department head or the finance director treasurer or the city attorney city attorney We'll participate in mediation arbitration other quasi judicial hearings and collective bargaining meetings meetings requiring legal advice So no council members on The committee then b was added Year or so ago to provide for Negotiations commencing january 1 2010 only The collective bargaining committee would consist of chairman of salary and grievance Council president director of hr Or individual acting in that capacity appropriate department head or the finance director treasurer or the city attorney acting in a consulting capacity So that's why so what you're changing is a you're You're adding permanently members of the council as members of the bargaining committee It's a little different than current a but the or the current b but The proposal would be to change permanently the composition to read As in the text of the amendment there Okay, so does everybody understand that the way this would read now as you have the The human resources director you have the director of finance you have the chairman of finance the chairman of salary and grievances The department head when needed And the city attorney when needed in Grievances, etc Everybody clear on that under discussion on that alderman borne Thank you, mayor ryan Two years ago when i was president of the council the council voted to have the council president Become part of the bargaining team. I voted against it Didn't need any more work, but i voted i voted against it, but it passed I guess my question is uh, if we passed having the Common council president as part of the bargaining team Uh, and then last year i believe when we did negotiate contracts and whatever you negotiated contracts It just so happened that uh, alderman gissard was president of the council It was also chairman of the finance committee I guess my question is if we voted to have the President of the council as part of the bargaining team Why the why the why the change? I mean, I just hope that it isn't it isn't Personalities, uh, I'd like to know the reason why we're still not going to have the president of the council on the bargaining team Thank you. Maybe mr. Rice or somebody can answer that Thank you, mr. Mayor. I think the reasoning was to clear up the language is that Because mr. Gissha was the president of the council. He was also the chair of finance And he was on there because he was the chair of finance not because he was the president of the council That's where the clarification is that's where we're trying to get it back to You know things have changed on the makeup of the bargaining committee pretty regularly through bargaining sessions Um That used to be eight years ago. There were no alderman ever in bargaining in bargaining sessions whatsoever from what I understand Um, the alderman just did not participate in the bargaining process I think it's good that alderman get involved in the bargaining process because Alderman or I are ultimately voting on what gets passed In bargaining in order for that labor agreement to to be ratified by the council It just as it is ratified by our friends in labor and their Their bodies so to speak um When I made the appointments to The chairman of finance and the chairman of salary and grievances It was my understanding at that point that the bargaining committee consisted of the chairman of salary Chairman of finance and the chairman of salary and grievances. That was my understanding I know that some things were mixed up the year before because of Alderman President borne you were the president at the time you resigned the presidency alderman gisha took over Alderman gisha took over and he was also the chairman of finance There's also been some proposals here to have three people three alderman on the bargaining committee. I don't think that's the answer I think a bargaining committee of four people is sufficient I don't think we need any more if this council would like to not you know Obviously the chairman of salary and grievances should be on there being the salary and grievances chairman If this council was to decide to have the president and not the chairman of finance That would be up to this council to to decide that I made my appointments to the chairman of salary and grievances in the chairman of finance When I did that it was my understanding that they would be part of that bargaining team And I think it's a I think it's a good mix for the bargaining team between tom rice jim emotio and Which would be the alderman Raceler and alderman hammond. I think it's a good makeup for a well-balanced bargaining team And I think both of them communicate with the council To get you know to to get the feel of the council Before they go into bargaining. So that that was why I that was why I made those decisions on committee appointments So, you know if the council wants to change that that would be up to the council What that bargaining team is going to be But I am confident that that bargaining team should consist of four individuals for the city not five or six And I think two alder persons is sufficient Alderman raceler Are you done or the discussion? We're still on the amendment. Okay on the amendment only All in favor say aye Opposed no Okay, let's do a roll call vote on the amendment kittleson aye mana check Aye rinflush no raceler. Aye samson. Aye vander wheel. Aye versi. Aye Belt I foreign. No Carlson. No Decker. No hammond. Aye Hannah. Aye Heidemann. No And I eyes five no Ten eyes five no's. Okay, so we have the Ordinance the Have the Ordinance as amended Under discussion ordinance as amended president rinflush. Thank you, mr. Mayor It's been a busy week on this issue something that I did not think would become such a big issue quite frankly It was It's public knowledge. I stated it that the reason I wanted to become president was to Have a seat at the bargaining committee Because I felt not because it's important for all the rinflush, but because it's important that the council Really have a voice with the negotiations And as president it is is the role of this position to have a feeling of what is going on What 16 all the better persons Feel and what would pass historically My experience is is with pot negotiations something is presented to this council and it's presented for I or no Yes, or no, all or nothing go At a point in time There may be a lot of debates in the council, but it's often too late If we go back and vote it no we have to go back to negotiating with the bargaining units It can be claimed and it has been claimed that we're are negotiating in bad faith So my point isn't that all the rinflush needs a seat at the table My point is is that the 16 all the persons need a seat at that table And need to be heard prior We have a negotiating committee This passes We'll have a makeup But my hope is that that committee Really bear witness to the desires of this full council Desires that when they do negotiate they have some sense of what's going to pass what's not going to pass And I would hope that any negotiations have taken place either formally or informally Or any negotiations that may take place After the passage of this composition general ordinance Would not take place until after that meeting is is held that after You know the voice of the full 16 has heard I will actually vote and support the The makeup of the subs of the substitute ordinance and support the recommendation of sovereign grievances Again, the reason is not because it felt important that I had that particular seat But the voice of the council had that seat And apparently it's become personal apparently it's become become that Eric's schedule doesn't work. That's funny. No one called me to ask my schedule. I already worked it out with my employer It's it's been You know claimed that that that would happen those people that the shway and press had quoted never called me To see if I had a position available. I see I had a time available At this point in time because apparently it's personal if I gave four hours of a particular day that I can meet Guess which four hours are going to be picked the other four hours. I'm pretty sure So in order to make sure that we have a smooth operation. I will defer The position that I had felt that the council had elected in the person of the president Fore seat negotiation team But I'll defer that That deferred to the full council itself And I maintain as quoted in the press that I will be an active participant in that It is my responsibility to make sure that I have some sense of the feeling of this council And then negotiations proceed With something that has a chance of passing Any negotiations that takes place until such a meeting is made. I think it's done in bad faith I think that this committee This council has a right to be heard. We heard interesting Piece of information From our committee the whole meeting last week from Mr. Tony McLean About what the role of the council is and the make of the council is 16 plus 1 16 alderman plus the mayor And his role to the council to approve contracts and Not just the committee and I hopefully that the full council the 16 plus 1 have a say in that negotiations So again, I will support as a point in time That being said, I will still fight to make sure that that Negotiating committee has a full awareness of what the 16 all the persons including the mayor and the council What would like to have c done on negotiations. Thank you Thank you president renflesh alderman versi Thank you, mr. Mayor. I like to put amendment on here as to Right after it says shall consist of uh president of council chairman of finance chairman of salary agreements to have president of council placed before that And uh as for a little further Discussion on that point is I do believe adding one more person to a bargaining committee is Should not be an issue in any which way whatsoever because he is the council leader He does bring the most diverse I guess view of us 16 because he Collectively talks to everybody as well and him being our elected leader. I believe he should be sitting on here and adding a fifth person Is just asking ian to say adding one more person is going to throw off negotiating So I believe that that's my amendment to have president council also added to this Okay, we have a motion in a second On an amendment the amendment is to now have three Alderman on the council the president of the council the chairman of finance and the chairman of salary and grievances We will now discuss only the amendment I am going to turn off all lights here because we do have a proposed amendment and Just on the amendment Alderman borne Thank you, mayor ran The years that I've been on the council we've had uh I think Very talented presidents of the council when I came on the council. I believe it was alderman eldenberg Then I unless I'm missing somebody I believe after that it was alderman hannah for two years who did an outstanding job as president and I was on for a few months and then we had alderman gisha and now Alderman renfleich For those of you that don't know it just got his master's degree in public administration So I think he has a lot to offer to that bargaining team as a member of that bargaining team I would have felt comfortable With having alderman hannah on that bargaining team back when he was president at that time The president wasn't but when I was president they voted me on although as I said I voted against it, but Uh, I think we uh, I don't like put personalities into it But I think since I've been on the council at least I think we've had very talented presidents And I wouldn't have I would have voted to have any of them on the bargaining committee And I think alderman renfleich who do an outstanding job as part of that team I think we would have an excellent team because we've got alderman raceler Who's been on both sides of the table in his work with the county? Uh alderman alderman hamond is a very good financial person. And again, I think with alderman renfleich's Master's degree in public administration. I think he has a lot to offer. Thank you Thank you alderman for an alderman raceler. Thank you, mr. Mayor I guess one of the the decisions that celery ingredients that this was not approved when it was brought on the floor as far as having The council president was obviously nothing personal It came down to mudding the water shall we say? Trying to get three people's schedule is obviously a lot more difficult than getting two people's in order Um, I looked to have a flexible schedule along with alderman hamond I think as far as the scheduling goes The other thing that that does concern me is that this is for the future. This isn't just for this year This is for the future down the line One of the again mudding the waters is actually having three older persons there instead of two Uh, no matter what makeup the committees are Two older persons can never be a majority of the committee Having three of them there. I don't believe that at this point in time It's an issue with the committees that we're on But should it come a day when the mayor makes his appointments? And there is three people from the same committee that are now the negotiation committee You have problems with the open meetings laws that may come To fruition One of the reasons why obviously the two is important. So I guess I would suggest that For me, I don't care which one of two of the three of us it is But I just think that it should be two so we make sure the order is clear. Thank you Thank you alderman raceler. Um, we are under discussion on the amendment again Anybody would like to voice their opinion on the amendment the amendment being that there will be three alderman Alder persons on the bargaining committee Okay, if there's no further discussion, I'd like to do a roll call on the amendment an aye vote Will be to pass the amendment to put three alder persons on the bargaining committee A no vote will be to keep it as Two alder persons on the bargaining committee So Maddachak Aye I'm sorry. Aye Thanks Rinpoche Aye Raceler No Samson Aye Vanderweel Aye Versi Aye Belt Aye Boran Aye Carlson Aye Decker I'm sorry Aye Hammond Aye Hannah Aye Heidemann Aye Kath Aye Anne Kittleson No Thirteen ayes, two noes Okay, now we are voting on an amended amended ordinance Unmended substitute ordinance Which states that the bargaining committee for the city of Sheplagin will consist of the the finance director the hr director the Chairman of salary and grievances the chairman of finance and the president of the council That's what we're voting on right now along with the department head and attorney mclean When needed and I believe that's in there that the mayor can be in there when needed also So that would be the city's bargaining team that we're addressing now on this amended Ordinance amended substitute ordinance alderman Hammond Thank you, mr. Mayor. I just want to point of clarification on the actual Substitute ordinance that indicates the appropriate department head or the finance director or city Attorney I want to make sure that the director finances in each of those negotiations here It's kind of a sounds like an either or kind of thing. Do I need to make a motion to Make that an and if you will so that he's in each of those meetings and I'm sure Director of modi will be real happy. Would you like to make that a friendly amendment? I will make that a friendly amendment second Okay, we have a hoop hoop put together the original amendment alderman Percy would you accept that friendly amendment accept that and second original second Vice president decker, okay So that is a friendly amendment. So now we are we are speaking of And the finance director as opposed to or And or maybe right could be okay All right, is everybody clear on this under discussion We know the bargaining team will be Just make a comment The new alderman aren't getting the idea that this is The committee that establishes the parameters of what the bargain for Uh typically and the council can do it how they want but typically the council meets and establishes parameters that they then Pass on to the negotiating committee to negotiate. So the negotiating committee isn't starting from a blank slate walking into negotiations the council has input right from the very beginning but And that's either done through salary grievance committee or through The council as a whole or through the committee the whole And the negotiating committee that should be reporting back to typically the salary grievance committee on sort of an ongoing basis as to how things are going but I don't think you should get the The misunderstanding that this committee is setting necessarily the policy for the council that's done by the council as a whole upfront and then The council gets to act on it once the negotiations are arrive in a tentative agreement Thank you, attorney McLean. Is everybody clear with that okay any further discussion on the amended Substitute ordinance Any further discussion Okay, if there's no further discussion and the i-vote will pass the amended substitute ordinance with three alder persons to the director of finance director of human resources On the bargaining committee And i-vote will be yes a no vote will go back to the original amended ordinance again Everybody clear with that? Okay Rin Flesch hi No Motion carries Moving on ordinances introduced 10 453 by alder persons racelor versey kittleson decker and samson establishing establishing the salary for the environmental engineer Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move to suspend the rules, please second Motion to second to suspend to suspend the rules under discussion only on the suspension of the rules Alderman hammond just a clarification why we're suspending the rules. Thanks. We have some offers out to Obviously for dash 53 that we'd like to kind of expedite on and get some notices and stuff going We actually have some accepted offers, but it's it's based upon Okay, any further discussion on suspending the rules There's no further discussion If there is no opposition rules are suspended, please continue. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move to pass the ordinance second Motion to second to pass the ordinance Alderman board Thank you, mayor ryan Usually in the minutes of the Of the salary and grievance or else we have something on our desk as to What the pay grade is and so I would like to know what What grade this individual and for that matter the next one on 454 Are coming at coming in at what what pay grade and then also where they are in the range of that pay grade Maybe the chairman could help or else Uh, mr. Rice Tom would you like this or bill Tom rice The pay grade for both jobs Is in 11 Minimum salary is 60,999. I'm sorry. I missed that. Mr. Rice. I didn't hear what grade 11 11. Thank you Minimum salary 60,999 Midpoint is 71,763 the maximum is 82 384 If I could follow up mayor Then the the salary for this individual I would take it then starting out at 75,000 dollars is Probably due to that person's resume and background and that's why we're starting them out at 75 That is correct And that would be the same for the next individual That is also correct. All right. Thank you Okay, thank you. Alderman barn any further discussion Alderman hammond Thank you, mr. Mayor. Sorry about that. That's okay Okay Linky light probably through you officer Um quick quite I guess more of a question and a comment, but back in uh was this april we signed or approved a resolution having um environmental Basically the same thing that this individual will be doing Um performed by donahue for a cost of about 90 grand I guess my question is two fold one, you know, are we going to continue on with that? Do we Still need that now that we're hiring this individual? And and to um You know, will we continue entering into these types of contracts? Because to me it just doesn't make sense to have both bill Bill bit near director of public works the uh What The answer to that is they don't replace each other. They're they're two separate work workloads as a matter of fact the We hired donahue and The public works committee is aware of this because of needs for major changes that are our wastewater treatment plant Donahue is the design professional on that Multi-million dollar worth of improvements This position is actually one of the tasks is to manage those projects from a city management point of view or a The language is I guess the owner's representative to to manage the multi contracts That'll happen at the wastewater treatment plant independent of the of the design engineers The other area or the other two areas this job will work heavily in is is in the Stormwater area where we have a stormwater permit to federally issued permit through the state dnr That requires us to extensive amount of of environmental work in our storm sewer area An area that's that's somewhat lacking And also we're required through standard practices and procedures In our sanitary sewer system to follow certain protocols that we prevent backups before they happen And that's a whole series of protocols that that we want to happen And this position will really manage probably those are the three big areas that this position will manage in Alderman Hammett Director bitner just who's managing those things now Who's the the stormwater the wastewater and the sanitary? They are a combination of the existing staff spread out Most of them are new requirements or new projects where the workload's going to increase rather significantly Answer your question Yes, thank you. Thank you bill Any further discussion? Okay, we are on 453 for the environmental engineer And i vote will be to establish that salary We'll call please Motion carries 455 by 454 by alderperson's racelor versi kittleson decker and samson establishing the salary for the chemist industrial wastewater treatment plant supervisor All right Second Motion the second to suspend the rules rules are being suspended because we have a An offer pending on this position. Is there anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? Rules are suspended alderman racelor Second motion the second to put the ordinance upon its passage Under discussion Alderman Hammond, thank you, mr. Mayor and my quest to be a cheapskate um, I guess uh Do we have this position already? Is this somebody leaving and then we're just re back filling them bill Oh, okay, thank you The way Okay, this is to replace an individual Budgeted position Yes, what's the last one? Nope. No last one was not. This is a budgeted position. Correct Okay Under discussion There's no discussion. We'll call please samson. Hi Vander wheel. Hi versi. Hi Belt Hi Motion carries Uh, 455 lies over but alderman hannah would like to speak on that Yes, I'd like this referred back to long licensing Okay, this is on the smoking rooms right attorney adams interpretation Is quite different than the tavern elites and I'd like to get that reconciled So we are going to refer this back to law and licensing To be worked on once more All in favor of referring to law and licensing say aye. Hi Well alderman barn, would you like to comment on this? I'm sorry. Thank you Uh, I had the opportunity along with alderman heidemann this afternoon to visit My constituent who spoke on the public forum tonight and alderman heidemann and I had an opportunity to go over and look at his smoking room and I have to say I think he did a fine job on it, but he found out last week that he's not in compliance And I think that's why we're sending it back to the committee and Hopefully mr. Watt and people from the tavern league will be able to attend the next law and licensing meeting and have their input And I understand that mr. Watts establishment was not the only one last week that was not found in compliance The assistant city attorney a member of the police department and A woman from a non-smoking organization around the state Uh found that there are I believe 10 establishments that are not in compliance with with the ordinance And after even some of them were given advice by a local engineer to set up these non smoking rooms in an appropriate manner And now they're told after getting building permits and going through due diligence That they're not in compliance And again, I can see when on the the visit over to mr. Watts That he put in a lot of effort to get this right and now he's told it isn't right And we've got another small businessman that's potentially faced with spending thousands of dollars more to come into compliance So I hope at the next law and licensing meeting that this can be hashed out The the original motion that alderman hannah made that these people that that got these building permits in good faith our grandfathered in and we can uh Uh Get this to a satisfactory uh conclusion not only for the bar owners, but also That were that we fall within this ordinance. Thank you very much Thank you alderman borne from what I from what I understand. We had 10 smoking rooms Built on establishments throughout the city and of those 10 eight are not in compliance So there's only two in compliance eight or not uh the way that the law is being interpreted Um, so I think there needs to be some clarification on the law obviously Um, because I think all of these operators did build their smoking rooms in good faith thinking that they would be in compliance. So All in favor of referring this back to law and licensing state I Opposed to law and licensing it goes 456 to be referred matters laid over 11 Uh 3-12 rc number 10 11 12 by public works authorizing executing a one-year lease for the agricultural property in the william hyson industrial park Alderman borne Thank you, mayor. Am I and I'd make a motion to file this document, please Motion to second to file the documents under discussion Under discussion since this was originally dealt with a public work committee The city has decided that it's not an opportune time to lease this property city-owned property to the to the farmer involved Because the city is going to be doing some uh Tests on the soil out there is my understanding. So at this time I recommend that it be filed Okay, we have a motion to second to file all in favor of filing state I Opposed the document is filed other matters authorized by law 457 and rc By committee of the whole approving the city of shabuagan generally used rules Of order procedure and conduct for common counsel commissions committees board members And the public for handy reference all to person kittleson Thank you, mayor. I'd ask that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and that the resolution be put upon its passage second We have a motion and a second and I apologize to committee of the chairman of the whole alderman hannah But all the person kittleson was the one that brought this forward Under discussion if there is no discussion roll call, please I I I I Motion carries 458 An arrow by the city clerk submitting various life license applications will be referred to law and licensing 459 Another arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications will be referred to law and licensing 4-60 in rc by special committee on risk management recommending filing documents Submitting a claim from Horace Hummel for damages to his vehicle When a snow plow hit something hard which kicked the plow blade out and striking his car in the rear driver's side door And paying claim in the amount of two thousand two hundred and fifty five dollars and 82 cents First management Alderperson cod I move to accept and adopt the report of committee second We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There is no roll call, please Percy I felt I boron I Carlson all right decker. Hi. Hammond. Hi. Hannah. Hi. Heidemann. Hi. Todd. Hi. Kittleson. Hi Manichuk. Hi. Rinfleshe. Hi raceler. Hi Samson. Hi 15 eyes motion carries Okay, um, we are going to be going into closed session we will I'm sorry. We have other other matters attorney mclean 4-61 as a resolution executing grant agreement with the department of natural resources And the city's warrior for the purpose of developing a conservation plan for 177 acres on the shuckered property That will be referred to finance Okay, we will be going into closed session the president of council will make that motion For the folks out there on television. We will not be Coming back on television this evening. We will be voting in closed session on this issue Thank you very much President rinfleshe. Thank you, mayor. I moved to Convenient closed session under the exemption provided in section 19-85 1g wisconsin statutes for the purpose of conferring with legal counsel for the city who is rendering oral advice concerning strategy To be adopted with respect to litigation in which it has revolved namely schwaibel holdings llc et al versus city of shabuagan 2010-cv-899 We have a second second. We have a motion to second to go into closed session Roll call, please I Motion carries