Next question is from Justin Lee. What are your thoughts of Mike Menser's heavy-duty training change change your life? Well, it actually was it was a very profound book for me, but it was Just generally in the whole muscle-building world. So he's the intensity one, right? Is that right? Yeah So a little background, right? So Mike Menser was a bodybuilder in the 70s early 80s And he was you know, he never won mr. Olympia, but he had a very Commanding physique on stage very smart kind of cerebral guy very different and during that time the bodybuilding training was all about volume and Frequency and angles Arnold dominated bodybuilding at the time. So everything was about 20-something sets per body part double split routines and Mike Menser comes out and says no in order to trigger muscle growth you just need to do one all out high-intensity set of weights or resistance training Send the signal leave it alone, right? And he got this from Arthur Jones. Arthur Jones was the inventor of Nautilus equipment You know the famous, you know experiment he did with Casey Viatter that we've talked about on the podcast And so Mike Menser employed some of these techniques and built a great physique He just he took it too far, you know on the one hand you have the volume is king on the other hand You have know it's all about intensity and they are inversely related, right? The harder you work out the less volume you could do and vice versa But neither one of them is the full answer and I I learned this through trial and error and through I even did this on my clients I actually would have clients do heavy-duty workouts because I because I was going through the period of kind of like Experimenting and you'll see them progress and then stop just like with almost any other viable training That's the real magic behind all of these books all of these methods of training is that if you've never trained this way Before and then you go do it you may see incredible results like you've never seen before but it's not That method of training why it's because the novelty of that and if you go do that Forever and consistent and then read a different book that has competing type of theories or ideas around training You're gonna see incredible results again And that was it took me over a decade to piece that together right because I was I fell into that trap try something Oh high reps. Oh, it's oh low reps. Oh, it's going to failure Oh, it's like it's like oh, maybe what it is is that I've been doing this all the time And this is so different than that so my body adapts and responds. Okay now I've been doing that for a long time so damn near anything else But that is gonna show me and so that's the real lesson is and understanding human behavior How we get caught into doing this trap of the same stuff all the time It definitely ups the risk and the risk reward so it's sort of you know balance with that and You do see like success from that, but then there's that thin line of like, you know, now I'm flirting with like a risky You know type of a method where you see this sort of resurface. I don't know if you guys are familiar with those like ARX machines So it's like basically like a mechanized resistance. And so they try to like really like Intensify one rep so you do each phase of the contraction. They like add, you know more to the strength curve Within those so it's like basically it's like cables You're like pushing as hard as you can you're holding for as hard as you can and then you're coming back in Descent as hard as possible. It's just like the whole thing is like all intensity like short amount of reps but they're trying to sort of solve the Issue of it being such a riskier type of modality, but again, it only lasts for so long You know before we're gonna need to expose the body something else it oversimplifies Muscle adaptation or the adaptation of building strength and muscle they say it's all about intensity And so if you just go intense enough For one set the trigger or the the wheels are set in motion Then you just step away Allow your body to recover and you should be able to build muscle up until you reach your genetic potential It doesn't work this way you can over apply intensity as well And by the way volume and frequency also contribute to muscle otherwise you wouldn't see mechanics with muscular forearms Why do mechanics typically have muscular forms? They never go to failure. It's a lot of volume a lot of frequency, right? Now I'm not saying that's the only answer either It's a combination of them and you have to kind of move in and out of each of them to get your body to Continue to respond, but look if you were to look even if we were to use bodybuilders as the example the vast majority of bodybuilders out there trained with More volume and don't go to failure all the time There are a few that do like during eights kind of trained this way, right? Mike Menser trained this way There's a couple others. There was something called DC training that kind of was similar I mean Mike Menser went so crazy with this at one point that he would train people with his typical style Which was one all-out set to failure Per body part and people would his he would have people work out two or three days a week That was it then when they would stop responding. You know what his answer was less frequency Okay, then it means you need more recovery So now I'm gonna give you ten days between body parts and then 14 days between and it just it didn't work It stops working now Do you and I don't I don't believe that any of these guys that wrote any of these books only trained that way either Right, do you think Mike Menser only trained that way that he wrote in the book? Or that was like a phase or a thing that he did or that he talked about it because he was marketing You know what I but then he probably actually trained a lot of different ways. I think it's sustainable. Yeah Yeah, I don't think so either I think a lot. I think that happens still today You see somebody mark it an idea and it's like oh, it's brilliant But I don't think they they they do that either they use it Oh, I've got this incredible physique that I've built Now let's write a book around these few things and it's like they are not just doing those few things You know, I used to think that and I think to some extent that's true but then there's this other side that You know when you when you read about these people you see me in interviews like Dorian Yates did train The way that he said he did for all of his mr. Olympia wins and he would literally do a few exercises per body part One all-out set to failure and that's it per exercise. So for back he'd do like three exercise So three sets of failure and that was it which for pro bodybuilding terms is super low volume now Here's my explanation. I think that there's genetic variances between individuals That sometimes makes people respond exceptionally well to intensity so they can cut their volume way down Use intensity and it just works really well for them And then I think there's people on the other end of the spectrum and I think I think there's people with Frequency that are like that as well. So I think that there's general truths But your individual variance might make you work a little better one way or the other And I also don't think it's permanent I think is your body changes and you age and circumstances change Then what works for you before may not work for you as well as it did before But this particular theory at the time or this book It came out and it was so different and so radical against You know in comparison to what everybody else was saying that it didn't gain popularity And it's probably because people all did high volume and so they said let me try this out and then oh my god It totally works. Yeah, so it kind of you know, it kind of blew up But I do think there's some truth in what he says I just don't think it's the it's the all-out answer and by the way The best studies on resistance training and building muscle shows That going to failure is too much intensity most of the time And that one set to failure or one hard set versus three hard sets For beginners is usually this just is fine But as they get more advanced more volume tends to produce better results And so we do have these general truths that we've already shown in studies and and this heavy duty style training Is probably not best for most people You like the information in this clip you guys are going to love the information in this full episode Make sure you subscribe and check it out


You're listening to highlights from the David Feldman show heard nationwide on Pacifica radio or as a podcast on iTunes Stitcher and now YouTube Please subscribe to this channel for more information go to David Feldman show comm Thank you for listening The David Feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you you sad pathetic humps Liz Mealy joins us. She's originally from New Jersey. We're in New Jersey. All right outside of Princeton I'm from Anglewood Liz Mealy started doing stand-up at the age of 16 in New York City by the time she was 18 The New Yorker magazine was profiling her at 22 Liz Mealy appeared on Comedy Central's live at Gotham You might have seen her on Access TV's Gotham Comedy Live or Hulu's coming to the stage Welcome Liz Mealy. Thank you. You started doing comedy at 16. I did Which it always is unimpressive because I kind of still look like I'm 16. You do but that's because you're a marathon runner When was the last time you run a random marathon? I think it was two years ago Maybe three years ago. I hurt my back. So I took off I haven't I took off from running for the longest I've ever taken off as eight months and then Before that I just was doing like half marathons because of my tour schedule was getting so crazy that to run a marathon and not train It's beyond torture. So half marathons in comparison were a lot easier So you started doing comedy at the age of 16. I want to get to that in one second But we also have to talk about the Claude. This is this pilot that you're working on you shot it already No, I'm gonna I wrote it and then now I'm actually cutting it down and I want to turn it into a short film Okay, you also co-produced and co-starred in 40 episodes of the web series called apartment C3 Yeah, Carmen Lynch. Have you had her on the show? She was my roommate for four years So I shot it with her and my still roommate Chris who's a fashion photographer Your debut comedy album emotionally exhausting is on iTunes and Amazon mind over me Lee That came out in March. So you've put out two comedy albums Mm-hmm Lots of talk about let's start at the beginning age of 16 you decide to do stand-up comedy Yeah Do you mind if I say I don't approve? I agree. I agree.  I do wish I started at 15 I'm making why did you wait so long? What kind of parents did you have? Yeah, that they would not allow you to do comedy at 10 Um, I discovered it when I was like 13 and I don't know how you discovered stand-up, but like I Nobody would ever tell me that I was funny like that's that wasn't how people interpreted me at all But in my family I would make people laugh But most people I was really shy and I was really reserved and then when I wasn't shy I was annoying So most people said I was annoying and then I remember doing an interview once and they're just like so people think you're funny now I'm like no most people still consider me annoying But I wanted to be like a funny actress And so I thought that was what I wanted to do But you know when something's not completely connected like when you're dating somebody and you're like I like them They're great, but for some reason it's not that's how I felt with acting I was just like I mean I want the attention that Sandra Bullock is getting and I like that she's being funny But I'm not that's not exactly what I want to do and then when I first saw stand-up when I was 13 years old I was like yes, I don't have to be around others. Everybody has to pay attention to me I can say what I want to say and I became obsessed and I started writing when I was 14 years old Wow, and it was like keep in mind like I was doing drugs like I was doing all the stuff like But you're supposed to do that you're supposed to do yeah Like I was like trying to make out with people But it wasn't working out and I was doing drugs and I was drinking and I was hanging out with all these like Punks and stuff and I was clearly numbing myself. I think I even knew that when I was 14 So I knew I was numbing myself because like a part of me was like I I mean looking back I really know because as soon as I started doing stand-up I stopped doing all of it like there's it's actually really funny to look back on now But I would go to these house parties when I was like 14 15 years old and we would get drunk And we do drugs or whatever, but then when I started doing stand-up or really when I started writing I didn't you know this is before like laptops and stuff We had like a house computer like this computer that was in the living room that everybody used in my house And most people's houses were like that and so I would go to these parties And I would see a computer and all my friends are like making out and doing drugs And I would be at the family computer typing up my jokes. I'm not even exaggerating I did it probably from 14 to 16 years old and then when I finished my jokes a joke Sometimes I would do drugs or whatever and then when I started doing stand-up I started going to the city every weekend and I would still go to these house parties But everybody was already far drunker and I was super sober and then it's almost how you feel as a stand-up where Everybody in the audience is drunk and you're like, why do people do this? Stupid so I would go to these parties. I would hang out for an hour. Everybody was drunk I was on this kind of comedy high and I would drive home and I'd go home Like I don't think my parents because I was a very responsible irresponsible person I don't think they knew I was doing all these drugs and drinking and then when I started doing stand-up I don't think they understood that I was like I pushed myself out of this numbing phase Like I found this new this new high really Explain to me further on this because I always think Kids should not be actors. They should go to school. They should be spared This business. I think the business is so dangerous, but it sounds like You grew up in Princeton. Yeah, sounds like Princeton was more dangerous than show business Well, I always say this like whenever people are like, why did you get into comedy? I always said I was really sad Mm-hmm, and and people are like, well, that's that's not a good story And I'm like actually it is like I hated my childhood so much and I was so deeply depressed and unhappy that Just watching stand-up was a relief just watching it made me happy Right and then writing made me happier and then performing made me even happier and all of a sudden I had this passion and this goal and this thing to kind of push me forward and get me out of bed and something to look forward to and kind of give me kind of inspiration and It was that really it was everything's sucking so much when I was younger that when I started to do sandup And you do open mics, which are awful and I recommend them to nobody.  I read everybody's memoir and biography I listened to any my dad would like bring me in the room if there was like NPR like a MP like Terry Gross was interviewing comedian He'd always be like because they always rerun they'll be like, oh, you know Steve Martin's gonna be back on Da-da-da and then when I was 18 my dad actually bought me this like comedians compilation of every comedian They've interviewed on again all before podcast So this was like wisdom that you couldn't get anywhere else and I ate all that stuff up And I knew before even started that it took 10 years for you to find your voice And that this was a long path and so I didn't get into it at 16 being like I'm gonna be a star 18 I got it at 16 being like maybe when I'm 26 I might be funny Mm-hmm, and so I actually got in to stand up even though I think you're right that it is too young because what the hell do I have to talk about and what do I What is my view on anything? Actually it sounds like it's just right. It was in a lot of ways it was there's I That's my prejudice that I have a thing about I'm fascinated. I have a thing about child actors and I have If they want to do it themselves and they're willing to put the effort into it I also think make them take the bus to it if you make them take the bus to go to soccer practice You know what I mean? Like if you're gonna treat it the same way you might treat soccer practice by all means if they're gonna put in the effort And if they're gonna do all the work and they see that this is a lot but if you're gonna drop your life and like keep in mind like I've heard stories like the reason we have Taylor Swift is because her parents like drop their life moved to Tennessee so that she can because they believe she had talent And that's amazing like by all means if your family is behind you like that But like if you're dragging a kid to do you know Campbell's commercials I think you're the devil like I think if it's if it's their passion by all means put a minute But I also think they should be listening to podcasts now and they should be reading books And they should know how horrible this business is because if I wasn't in therapy I would be dead by now like this is such a toxic environment And it's only because I grew up in a toxic environment that I'm able to sustain myself in a toxic environment and that goes with the whole Wire comedians sad and depressed or whatever. Well, you kind of have to be to tread water in this in this environment. I Think if you have musical ability and your prodigy Sometimes it can't be stopped. I think there's some kids who are born with Musical ability and it's a sin not to encourage it at the age of five. I Don't think there's such a thing as a comedic prodigy at the age of five six seven and he sounds like you understood that at 1416 that this is a ten-year process It's I always knew it was work and I didn't have the self I mean Do you think there's somebody like a Robin Williams at the age of ten who's just running around where people say this Guy's a genius. He has to do comedy. I maybe I just but he worked hard even at ten So look when you hear stories of like Jim Carrey He was in his room making faces and trying to do all these voices and stuff a lot of my friends are magicians Which is a weird thing to brag about but I like magic I they're brilliant to and they're making way more money than I am but what I loved about my friends I made friends with them when I was 18 years old and what I loved about it is their dorkiness Their dorkiness is more behind doors because they're practicing over and over the sleight of hand stuff And then they present it rather than we have to practice in front of people But what I liked about it is the same Relentless practice and for somebody to do like a slight thing it took hours and hours of being by themselves Working with their hands and trying to figure it out And that's how I feel about just trying to be funny like it really was years and years and years Me just bombing and not being good and not thinking anything was gonna come What happened to you got profiled in the New Yorker magazine at 18 so two years in you get profiled in the new What was that about like what it was about being a barker so things have really changed in New York now What's a barker so a barker is somebody that hands out flyers for stage time So now most of the barkers you see are getting paid and they're not comedians some might be comedians It might be how they get into it, but it used to be a Lot of clubs not all of them But a lot of clubs especially kind of the lower clubs if you wanted stage time It was a way for you to get on stage So I would say it might not be the complete order, but I would say it's like open mics and Bringer shows hand out flyers are kind of all on that kind of level and in Times Square There are paid professional barkers who tell you that You know Steve Martin is gonna be at the club. They say anything to get yeah, yeah, we But I worked at hot comedy club, which I think barely still exists, but it still exists It's one of the shittiest clubs in the city But you know I was 1617 years old and I was able to hand out flyers for an hour and get on stage and they had they were doing three shows a Night every single night like and how big were the audiences? I mean they could be anywhere from ten people to 75 people you know what I mean mostly tourists mostly tourists You know people that didn't really plan their night because now they're in this weird place You know at the time it was on 42nd. It was on a restaurant row 42nd in like 9th Ave But you're coming in from Princeton. Yeah, I would come in when I was I knew Jersey transit I would take it every weekend. I would it was funny when I was 16 I was a junior in high school and I would take it every weekend And then when I was a senior and I got into college and my grades were good I convinced my dad to let me go Thursday through Sunday. So you went to college. I did I went to the new school I Would think you get the comedy bug at 16. That's great. I wish I didn't I'll be honest I didn't go to college I wish I didn't I think college is a waste of time for most people unless you're gonna become like a doctor or a lawyer or something That you need it if I could do it all over a major in creative writing which I'm better at it I made some good friends. I read some good books. I'm dyslexic. So school is always really hard for me So I I would always have to pick two classes To actually do the work in in two classes to bullshit and I did that through high school I did that through college. I liked college. It just I couldn't keep up So I wrote I read I kept all my college books and it took me six years to read all of them Right, that's how slow of a reader. I am what kind of dyslexia. Do you have it's? It's not the worst because my little brother I'm one of five kids and my my brother has it the worst We all have it though and my dad my dad gave it to us But I would say a veterinarian. Yeah, both my parents are veterinarians Um, I excuse me. I have to go operate on this God Yeah, exactly But it is it is kind of crazy because my dad didn't know he had dyslexia until he had a bunch of kids that were dyslexic He just knew everything was harder for him and he would have his My my my great aunt his aunt would type up all his papers and stuff for him because he couldn't keep up But I don't know how he went through that I still don't know how he did that and he got rejected all the time because he couldn't keep his grades up because Just reading an interview with Jay Leno who has dyslexia. Yeah, and he's been open about it Yeah, what a great service that is yeah people because if people don't open up about dyslexia then More and more people keep it quiet. Yeah, and then they Create shame and you and you lose a lot of people That would go after things that don't like I think first look comedy Some of the greatest comedians are dyslexic and he is it I just I just went to an interview I was at an interview at Sirius that he was at and he's dyslexic and that like blew my mind Yeah, I had a I had a boss who was dyslexic. He was He didn't he was older and he didn't like anybody to know so I might blow his cover But I knew he was dyslexic and he thought differently. Yeah, he was genius. He was a comedy genius because he saw things differently Your father became a veterinarian so as Jay Leno said in this article in the New York Times Yesterday David Itzkoff interviewed him He said I had dyslexia. My mother said I had to work twice as hard and you do You I mean you not only work twice as hard, but you have to you build up coping skills So they say like 80% of entrepreneurs or have some kind of learning disability or dyslexic I actually wonder because I talked at a Dyslexic school in DC a friend of mine was a teacher and I talked to like all these eight-year-olds about my experience being dyslexic and It's a dyslexic, you know learning disability school I actually wonder if you make dyslexics entrepreneurs because you put them in this very Stagnant way of learning you have to learn this way and our brains don't learn this way So you have to find out a way around to learn that way or at least get to the end result that these people want And I wonder if you put dyslexics in a school where you do figure out how they learn stuff If it's gonna hinder their ability to be entrepreneurs not to say that they don't think creatively Which we do kind of naturally but because they don't have the same challenges because and I don't know if this is true This is just a theory in my mind, but like a lot of my Problem-solving skills came from the fact that this paper. I have to write a 10-page paper It's due you know in a week. I have to read 500 pages.  So I do that with everything and like the biggest skill Dyslexics have is divergent thinking so for one problem. We can come up with 50 different solutions slow dance slow dance This is really important to me for several reasons One is a lot of my what I'm gonna make a joke I'm gonna say a lot of my listeners can't read But the ones who aren't from Alabama Can't read because they have they're either blind and they read in braille Mm-hmm, but I've I've spoken to a lot of my listeners and a lot of them have dyslexia where they don't It's so bad they can't read a newspaper. Yeah read their Kindle and I often catch myself using the term illiterate because that's almost a pejorative if you're dyslexic and You can't there are people who just can't read because of a physical not because they're intellectually Malnourished it's because they can't yeah, so I I mean I I don't have it the worst I would say I'm like smack dab in the middle. I have difficulty reading. I'm a slow reader. I misread a lot I have trouble pronouncing. I can't spell to save my life I have a hard time remembering stuff. My math is awful like I read this book called the dyslexic advantage When I was 25 and it changed my life. I actually spoke at their conference the dyslexic advantage It's one of the best books ever read because all the books on dyslexia are like what's wrong with your brain But this was the first book that I ever read that was like these are all the benefits Right and it helped me because it made me see that there's things that I just I didn't know that I could naturally do Like I would just do them and I think it's the reason I'm a good comic I think it's a reason I'm a good friend and problem-solver, but it all came from the fact that for whatever reason my brain works differently Okay, is there a type of dyslexia where you hear things differently? Um, I don't know.  So I actually like if you give me directions It's you might as well talk to a wall, but if you write directions or make me a map I'm amazing and over and I can put that way me the levels of dyslexia. Um, I mean keep in mind there's also different forms of Learning disability so not all of them because there's like dysgraphia. There's dyslexia. There's like there's like yeah I again, I hate to sound like a narcissist, but I am I know I had some kind of learning disability growing up Especially when it came to math. Yeah, and math is something that we struggle with as well I couldn't I just couldn't get geometry and you could just be dumb. So I could be And the gift of not being good at math was I just got really Although my listeners would disagree got really good at my verbal and literary skills.  Yeah, I I always say school didn't teach me how to learn it taught me how to bullshit And what do I do for a living?   Yeah, and it's it's how do you?  You've never read I'm ah, I'm almost a genius and that if that was if that was a TED talk, please sign me up. Okay How I? Apologize for not knowing this Blind people can read in Braille. Mm-hmm Is there a level of dyslexia where you have to resort to Braille where you can see but the only way you can read is through Braille? Um, I don't know. I don't are there people who just Who are who are I apologize for asking this question other people who can't Read because of the dyslexia. Oh, absolutely. There's there's severe dyslexia that what is that? They're seeing the letters are just jumbled. They're jumbled I mean they're the cool thing now just like you know If you were gluten-free 15 years ago, you didn't eat food if you're gluten-free now the world the world is your oyster You have so many options now with dyslexia like they make special font that's supposed to help Dyslexia front. Yeah, it's so cool. Um Kindle has yeah And then you know now they have these speak these you can speak into your phone and it types it for you It's not perfect, but again, that's something that if I had that my father had at anybody had that would have completely saved them time and energy and frustration it's it's I Know for me, okay I help me out so the the letters and numbers are jumbled on a page for some people They're not I don't know if they're jump, but if you see three human beings walking down the street Are they jumbled but but there's a difference between something that's learned like words and of physical being You know what I mean? So like I don't because I don't see things upside down like my You look at a painting What do you see? I see I hopefully see the same painting you're seeing but then the other thing is perspective so you have to keep in mind that You know, you might see something and it's this beautiful picture of a river and Either I might focus on a flower or I might focus on the fact that you know There's a splotch on it like it becomes about perspective So because I have to focus on the words differently than you it's changed my perspective So one of the advantages they said in this book is you read a book you take in the information you move on But it'll I sometimes have to read a sentence three or four times because I don't understand it or a paragraph a couple of Times because I always say like I'm not I mean it took me a long time to say this, but I'm not dumb I'm slow Because it I'll get there. It just takes me a lot longer But because I'm slow I'm more meticulous and I have to really like Like dig deep into the information and I often retain information more than most people I understand it on a deeper level I've thought about it analytically because I have to because I couldn't get past that paragraph until I did Because things don't just come into my brain easily.  And so for me finding different tools different ways to function have made me a Stronger reader in some senses because I found tricks like I don't I even I don't when I read like it'll be like, you know Mrs. Mrs. Roebuck like Because that might take me a little bit She's now Mrs. R to the point where I might read the same book as you and they'll be like, oh my god I can't believe Mrs. Roebuck did that and it'll take me a second because I've never pronounced Mrs. Roebuck She's always Mrs. R. That's just how I've digested of it It's a trick I've made up so that I don't get stuck on it and I can move forward but with With that part of my brain all you've really done is found skills that kind of push you differently I like I love diagnosing people from like reading their Facebook statuses or their tweets if they're dyslexic or not because there's certain mistakes people make and there's also Really cool things people say that is just very typically dyslexic and so when I heard Eddie is it was dyslexic It totally made sense to me because he's a big picture thinker and that's what dyslexics do which is you know You're here and I'm gonna bring you over here and most people can't see how you do that But a dyslexic doesn't know how to not take you from one place to the other you take them to your comfort zone No, I wouldn't say comfort zone you you you can basically Talk about paper clips and somehow convince people that that's why Trump got elected like really crazy weird stuff By taking something small and making it bigger picture and it's it's it's a weird natural George W. Bush might have been dyslexic. I can see that and he always said I'm a big picture guy Yeah, and you can I mean there's there's certain and certain mistakes Are are pretty obvious like I skip words like certain words just they're just not there But isn't that how they teach you speed reading Which is interesting because my dad tried to learn and I was like we I don't I won't retain anything if that's your dad is Very successful veterinarian. Yeah, he's dyslexic and he tried speed reading. Yeah, because He wanted to read more my dad's an avid reader. I'm an avid reader. I I I like taking an information via reading because like I said I absorb it more It takes me a lot longer But because I'm so visual and because it is a challenge to it There's something about reading that actually even though it's really hard for me It keeps me focused and I take in more information rather than if I watch a documentary I'll gain some stuff, but it doesn't I don't have to focus the same way. I have to focus when I read so When did you become a avid reader? My dad made me read every single night to watch TV if we wanted to watch an hour of television We want we had to read every night for like two hours thing. Yeah, and I thought it's not let me just take a side road here for a second Was that emotionally abusive? There was definitely a lot of emotional abuse in my family I'm talking about like saying TV is evil unplugging the TV maybe telling Your kids that you have to read the TV is a vast wasteland is would that be unfair for a parent to say that or Perhaps your father knew best. I think he's Honestly, if I had kids I would institute that role. He was a little over like my dad was super controlling Is this something you do? I'm sorry, but I'm just getting angry. Hang on. Let me just calm down. Yeah, what are you angry about? I'm not saying the word as a TV writer. Is this where you're angry?  No, I just there was one couple times where I'd come home from work It's the kids would be watching TV and they wouldn't say hello to me And I unplug the TV and take it into the garage. Yeah, and that was considered Abuse well, not nice. Well, I mean, but I don't disagree I want to get back to reading But this is your father and so did you did he know that reading was difficult for you? He didn't let us use it as an excuse and in a lot of ways I'm grateful But in a lot of ways it Like I said taught me how to bullshit it and teach me how to learn because reading to me is The most important thing next to sex. I agree And it's not for everybody, but I just measure my mental health based on my ability to read because for years I couldn't read even in college. I couldn't read. I couldn't do the work.   Yeah, I agree. Why don't I know this? Why don't I know this? Then I discovered that most people aren't willing to admit that they read something and didn't understand it Oh, yeah, I mean then I got really angry. I got I got really mad at the world where I thought so I'm not stupid I'm hypercritical of myself and everybody else is bs-ing me Yeah, one of the things I do on the show all the time is ask people about their reading schedules What they read do they understand it? Do they go back a lot of people are ashamed? Of the of the way they read and aren't willing to admit That they don't know something I read a book about so it makes me angry because it's in many ways worse than Physical bullying I hate intellectual bullies. I agree. Absolutely.  No, but the Make America great again magas magas. I didn't know that was me. I just learned it Yeah, I didn't know it was a term So he said magas and I go oh, what's a maga cuz I ask questions all the time I don't know anything and he goes you don't know what magas are and I was like no and then he said make America I was like, okay, so then a little while later. He goes um Are you a professional comic that's what he asked me are you a pro comic which I thought was a weird way to ask I usually just ask people if they do it full-time and I was like, yeah, I do it I do it full-time and then we talked about something. I said a word I mispronounced it and I was like mmm. That doesn't sound right and then I corrected myself and he responded by going You're a pro comic and it hurt my feelings so bad Because I'm still constantly getting my feelings hurt by misspelling stuff or saying things wrong because it's it's never gonna go away I'm 32 years old and I still don't know how to spell and I still don't know how to pronounce a lot stuff And I still struggle to understand things and a part of me It was like well, why am I not looked at in despite of this? I'm a professional comic rather than how how did you get here? You don't even know how to pronounce this word, but it really I mean I've ranted to my boyfriend It hurt my feelings that this kid made this and he probably didn't think anything of it Probably even think he might even thought he was making a joke, but to me it hurt so much But I read this book. I would I like about Malcolm Gladwell, and I know not everybody loves him But what he does is he makes these studies more digestible. So he wrote the David and Goliath and talks a lot about dyslexics But right after that he quoted somebody else's book about learning disability So I bought that book and I started reading it and it was a guy that had learning disability It wasn't dyslexia and he wrote about all the other learning disabilities And there are three chapters in there that I have no idea what he was talking about so here's a dude with learning disabilities that studied them and I still don't understand what he said and it was like I remember calling my dad and being like I just I read one of the chapters twice And I still don't know what he said and I've never I was like how this guy make me feel dumb. I was reading the paper today and I just couldn't understand like I agreed with everything that I was reading and I just started getting lost I couldn't make the connections. I think that's exhaustion and Will you have to have the will to want to to learn?  Yeah, I really do and You know, I work for Dennis Miller for ten years who was a professional bully and the at the height of his Fame and gift He was a parody of a professional bully mm-hmm the thing I took away from working for him for so long is that You can intimidate people into laughing and agreeing with you by using obscure references or language and words And it's all a confidence game. Yeah, absolutely. It's all a confidence game If you're confident in your tone of voice people will think I I can trust this guy to rip open my heart and Do the transplant but don't you think that's like I remember seeing good while hunting and I think that's the reason I liked it is you have these people that have gone to Harvard and that Think because they have this degree and because they got into this school that they're better than you that they're smarter than you And then you have a dude that's like, I don't know I read a couple of books and I yeah, and I can I can deduce my thoughts on my own So one of the reasons I am kind of anti-college in a lot of ways is school Teaches you how to think like other people rather than you read a bunch of books But then you are by yourself you have to deduce well, do I agree with that? Do I think life works this way? Do I want life to work this way and you have to come up with your ideas on your own? So when I was 16 years old I was told to speak when spoken to that my opinion is an important whether it's flat out said that way or is Interpret that way, but you don't talk when anybody else is talking and your your opinions don't matter This is what we're eating. This is what we're doing. This is how you're gonna help us out and every weekend Like we were joking about it me and my sister were Home we're joking about you wake up Saturday morning, and there's a to-do list And it's expected to get done by Sunday night and my dad used to pick us up from sleepovers at 6 a.m. To start our day, so that's how I grew up. And so when I started doing stand-up It wasn't because I thought I had an opinion It was because I didn't know if I was capable of having one and it was the first time that I was like I don't know how I feel about things because I was told not to have feelings Literally told to suppress my feelings. So I did so I didn't know how I felt about stuff I didn't know what stuff your parents both of whom are veterinarians, yeah, I Know the doctors Have kids who complain that they were emotionally distant. Yeah, you think you have problems. Yeah, but they What's it like growing up with two parents who are veterinarians? Well, I think people become vets because they have trouble connecting to humans and I would say my parents my dad So I didn't really know how to dress like I've just started to have a style In quotations in the last five years and it's because I looked at other women. So I'm pretty sure I'm already a female comedian I'm sure everybody thought I was a lesbian But I would I would look at other women that had bodies like me and I'd be like Oh, I think I'd look good in that and then I would go to H&M and I would try to recreate that and be like Oh, okay, her butt kind of looks like mine. She's stocky like me I think I could do that and that's how I built up how to have a style My dad did that with a personality in a lot of ways my dad I think had my dad had one of the worst childhoods I've ever heard of and He had no money and he's dyslexic and he had a dream and you know, he he Wanted to connect to people and I don't think he knew how so my dad is a self-help guru I have a joke about it. My dad has read every Tony Robbins book has Robins is amazing Tony Robbins, I think there's pros and cons. I'll never say that he's pure evil, but I'll never say that why would he be evil? I I think I think it's a lot of I think it's a lot of talk With a lot of inaction and I've I want to write a movie about it But I've been to four Tony Robbins seminars with oh really because I watch them all the time. I think he's I I but we're I think comedians are actually addicted to self-help in a lot of ways So my dad is addicted to self-help. I Would still say I'm addicted to self-help in a lot of ways. I've kind of moved forward and now I read a lot more psychology It's more like understanding and trying to see the problems and therapies kind of pushed me in a different direction But I've read just about every self-help book. My dad has read and seven more Um, what's the best self-help book you read that that actually helped Um, the dyslexic advantage by the way, my idea of self-help is internet porn Is that funny, I mean I could see you you are helping yourself and you know, you're not harming others. I think it works but um Actually this book called I don't even know if it's I want to even say it's a self-help book a first rate madness it's about it basically the thesis I would say is um in a time of stability you want a leader that is um mentally stable in a time of crisis you want a leader that's mentally ill and he goes through all the um Leaders we've had in the past that were mentally ill and why they were great. So Abraham Lincoln gondi Martin Luther King um There's also but they also talk he talks about hitler and he talks about why hitler was a great leader in the sense that What he was capable of doing but why he was was he emotionally stable or not He was joking Yeah, but like he talks about the drugs that he took and all this kind of crazy stuff And so it talks about how you know, there's the positivities of mental illness But the whole book is about just like the dyslexic advantage talks about the advantages of dyslexia This is a whole book that talks about the advantages of mental illness as somebody that Deals with it themselves and has family members that deal with it So I wouldn't say it's a self-help book as much as it's a book that's talking about the positivities of stuff Well, there's good mental illness and bad mental illness and there's also dealing with it not dealing with it You know what I mean like I you know My brother isn't too dissimilar from the people you see on the subway yelling at people But my brother's on medication. My brother's been hospitalized many times. My brother has a family that takes care of him So what does he have he's bipolar one? So he's been hospitalized four times. He's been picked up by the cops.  Uh-huh. Uh, and my mom to quote my mother. She said it was the sanest thing anybody in this family's ever done My mom is one of the funniest people I've ever met um do Veterinarians talk about the psychological conditions of cats and dogs um I think they're so I mean it feels like comics even like I've been doing it 15 years a lot of my friends have been doing it as long If not longer You still do talk about that stuff, but eventually I'm talking about veterinarians But I'm saying even in my own community you stop kind of talking about that stuff after a while So like what does it's been out? You just kind of know like it's like You don't need to it's like it's like somebody says something crazy and you look at your friend You just take make a look and you talk about cats and dogs. You can tell if a cat or a dog is mentally ill um, I think you can kind of Tell I don't think they say animals Are trained by humans so that if they were left in the wild they wouldn't have anxiety that they um that they Wouldn't have bad habits. They would have survival habits and they and that's it But because they live so closely with humans our dispositions get pushed onto them. We make them neurotic. Exactly. So my cat My cat has habits that I've created if I take out my luggage or her carrier She hides in the closet I actually have to take everything out three days before because she knows she's going to go to my parents And she's going to sleep in a cage So she has been trained my cat also You know cries if I don't pay attention to her which is almost who I was growing up So I've conditioned her in a really shitty way not even on purpose just accidentally. So I think the same thing happens with Kids cats and so forth Do you think I was at the the gym last night and america's got talent was on and there was a woman doing this dance routine with a dog and everybody just stopped Some people started to cry the dog was so cute The dog and then simon cow Just yell that the judge is to You got to pick this woman with her dog. You have to say yes and they kept shooting the dog the camera kept shooting the dog and Like everybody in the gym just stopped and melted at the dog Dogs are ruining Our lives You will never get the kind of love from a human that you can get from a dog. Um Yeah, but And this might be from child abuse Who wants unearned love?  I mean you don't have to work for it. They just you know, and I think it's making this week, but isn't but sugar would be the same way alcohol would be the same way I don't think alcohol is good. I think dogs are ruining relationships because We love them so much and no human can be as good as a dog Well, of course because you have feelings So, you know if I walk through the door like one of my favorite things like I've only been with my boyfriend for nine months And my favorite thing is in the morning. He smiles or like sometimes I get up earlier than him And I'll like be in the living room and I'll get work done and he opens the door and he has this big smile on his face And sometimes I get really sad because I think Someday he's not going to wake up and smile because I did something wrong Or he had a bad day and he's just kind of used to me always being there And it's going to be this moment where I don't just automatically get that smile and it really breaks my heart But you're making that happen then Maybe I mean my goal is hopefully not be you have to just assume That he's always going to smile at you and then he will And I hope so I really do because it's my favorite thing like not exaggerating but With a dog because there's no Real emotions involved you open up the door and they're happy to see you and you bring out the leashes. You don't think it's real emotions I think it's survival. I think it's a different type of survival. Just like don't you think We train dogs and we train them and Kind of create them by breeding them a certain way Don't you think we've created dogs who understand what love is? I think when they were in the wild It was all about pack and hierarchy. I think now it's love But how is this not pack and hierarchy?  And you'd be like, oh, I do open mics and all of a sudden they just walk away.  And then they go find somebody that's been on television because they know that person can help them get further or whatever We all see it.  This person takes me out so I can relieve myself.  Why would you not be nice to me? But that's what love is Is it Because what about the days that somebody can't provide for you? What about the boyfriend that has no money or the girlfriend that has sad days? Like the truth is is that I'm not always going to be the best version of myself and people still love me Is that why you still love them when they pee on the carpet?  I think we ruin this analogy. I don't know. I I don't know anything anymore I thought I knew I thought I had all the answers Uh, I do think dogs love us. I used to think they didn't I do. I mean, I think there is I think cats hate us I agree with that as well and I and I have so much love for cats I mean, I think if I was raised in a healthier Environment, I wouldn't be chasing cats love. I said to one of my daughters a year ago She says, how you doing?   Is that true? It is a hundred percent true. I feel healthier now that I'm not alone Because that's why our cat video.  This is what somebody explained to me that works for my mom and it makes perfect sense Cat videos are there to show off their cat because most cats are indoors and you can't show them off rather than dog video Dogs you walk them people, you know, and it's a more social being so you can show off your dog and your dog can do tricks And blah blah blah your dog has An outdoor life rather than you're mostly probably indoor cat You can't show it off and there's all these cute things they're doing next to the bed or by the water bowl or whatever Whatever, so it's a way for cat people to show off their animal And then in general they're just so cute like they're the my favorite cat video of the year is the window washer It's a window washer. There's a cat who's stuck on like the 54th floor Of a building and the window washer is washing the window and he notices that when he moves the sponge to the left The cat's head moves to the right and moves it to the right the cat's head moves to the left And then he just starts doing it back and forth in the head key and I thought I get the chills thinking about this because Here's a human being Outside a building on the 45th floor.  Yeah And I think When I watch because I keep watching I go man human beings can be incredible. Yeah, that's an incredible statement about humans that I'm on The outside of a 45 story building that was built by men I'm being paid to wash these windows.  You know what my favorite cat video is There's this cat. It's like a wreck. So it has like very little hair And the woman goes to pet it and the cat takes the woman's hand and just pushes it down to say like no And then just goes back to what it's doing. It makes me laugh every time just this very like No But shouldn't we be having these relationships with humans? I do. I definitely have told people not to touch me I worry that Cats and dogs are surrogate humans And they're better than humans and it's why we're so mean to one another Because we don't need each other anymore. We've got cats But wouldn't you say that about your cell phone or netflix or I mean you could say that about anything I mean, we're all trying to find the perfect version and In some ways, they're the easier they're the easier version because real relationships take work But I think there's some people that real relationships take work And I think they're harder because cats and dogs They're endlessly cute cats will always be cute until like the last six months when their hair starts falling out and they're the worst But like you know what I mean like I have bad days and good days like Cats have like three problems. You know what I mean? Well, we are yeah, I as somebody who is a borderline vegan And somebody who when he had a wife and kids had at any given time Four cats and at least three dogs in the house I'm a big animal person But I think we need to value humans over animals But I think what's happening just like you said there's so much it's so much easier Like they even say it's so much easier to access porn that it is making people just not work for the relationship Right, you have to learn like I always think it's funny that men are like you have to learn how to talk to women And I'm like well stop treating them like they're not humans Like they have they have things that they're excited about and they're not excited about and you have things that you're not excited about If you start talking about women as just People then you don't have to learn how to talk to them. You really just have to learn how to talk to people I hear uh, I've been told that all women are not the same I'm joking One of the complaints that we have come on in You can sit at the head of the table Melissa Stepowski is here. How are you good to see you? Why don't you sit over here? Why don't you sit at the head of the table? Okay, great I think we just do shows together. I think that's it Melissa Stepowski, yep, that's pretty accurate. Melissa's a comedian a writer from Brooklyn, New York She is a producer and host of the long-running stand-up show Bitches Brew as well as the interactive twitter show Like me comedy. She's a regular guest on serious xm's radio andy And appears every Tuesday. Let me see if I get this name right John. It's confusing John fugl saying is that his name?  What's elite daily? It is uh, really the only top-notch, uh, journalism, uh for for the millennial voice It's a lot of uh articles like top 10 ways that I uh buy shoes in Manhattan Really hard-hitting smart, uh, smart journalism They really actually let me go wild. I'm kind of Lucky they let me putt because I was kind of writing satire of what they do and they just kept publishing it There's an elite magazine too, right? I believe so. I don't know if they're affiliated very quickly Your accent. Are you from Cleveland? Close Detroit Metro Detroit He was asking we were out there. I was like, do you like cats and it just came out really? He was like, where are you from? I was like, yeah, Detroit. Well, I was just in Chicago So any bit that I lost I gained back that week in Chicago It all came back It's also the worst part is I think midwestern people laugh like as a honk Which it's like a complimenting like As a nice gift And I think I dropped that and it is really full force came back Yeah, if I'm around my Detroit friends who live in new york too, we really So very quickly because I always assume if you're african-american you know all other african-americans Sure, I'm gonna assume Since you're both women you know each other. We do. How do you know each other? Well, did I I met you? I feel like I met you before we did fugal saying show together But I don't remember where yeah, I think it was stand-up related Well, the hardest thing about meeting other female comics is it's gotten slightly better in the last couple of years But for the most part you're usually the token woman on a show So for guys guys make such stronger friends in comedy because you can book a show and it'll be all your guy friends Rather than if I want to see my female comic friends, I have to go visit them after my spot Where are you gonna be? Well, I'm gonna be I'm the only female comic at new york Well, I'm gonna be at stand-up like it's very so so Occasionally there'll be two women on a show but more likely she was on a show My friend was on the show. I went to go visit my friend and I'll be like, oh, she's funny and then But like it's so hard to make female comic friends not because we don't want to it's just because the Logistics, yeah, the logistics of it. Is that changing though? You just said it's changing slightly I definitely feel like I love like new york comedy club. I think books like a lot of female comics same with stand-up new york In general more female comics are coming out. They're being appreciated more. They're having more time to develop We're getting on tv more And then in general I think with more of us being on tv people are like well people I think people might want to see them and so you get on stage more so I You're still going to be pitched as an all-female show just like you see these all black shows and these all Have you seen the twitter? It's called one woman on the lineup and it's anonymous I don't know who's running it or anything, but they just retweet these line-ups Now like it happens a lot here one woman on the lineup. It's constantly no you you are the diversity There's always one black guy and there's always one woman Well, I mean, but it it is representative of our population not in new york city. I'm making a joke 51 51 percent of America but people always say well, there's less female comics Yeah, if you go to ohio But in new york city and especially la I think I'm I'm sure it's not 50 50 But it's there's a lot of us there and they actually say there's a lot in the beginning It's about 50 50 just as many women just as many men But we drop off a lot faster and some way you know there's always like well pregnancy did it But I don't think we're still pretty young. I think a lot of it is well If it's so much harder to get stage time and people aren't really paying attention to us, you know you you weed out Maybe the not strong, but you also we you make it so much harder for them So, you know, you have like a light current and we have a heavy current you have to be just as stronger That's why I actually think female comics are a lot stronger in new york city because you have to be Generally men's flow is less potent than a female flow. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, absolutely but like Yeah I think we're all very hormonal and temperamental on this business regardless, but I do think in some ways like I was talking about dyslexia must not make joke Must be mature go ahead, but no you I think in a lot of ways especially in new york city at least I can say Starting here and being here for 15 years Some of the female comics here. I think are some of the best in the world because it is that much harder It is and it's you have to want it as much you have to put up with more shit It's I think a rougher time, but but I also say this I do believe the beginning is much harder But once you get over the hump once people start paying attention to you I think it's a lot easier because then you have people because There's so fewer people on the other side of it But doesn't it make good business sense to oppress female comics in that Let me just I own a comedy club, right? And men and women traditionally go out on dates to see comedy Why would you put females on the show? Because It's a man and a woman going out on a date the the woman doesn't want to watch A woman. Why doesn't she want to watch? Well, you know statistically women are the ones that organize going out nights for the most part So you have a lot more women whether you know the last thing I want is a bachelorette party But you have a lot more women organizing some women want to hear from other women But also women are the ones women want to see female comics Yeah, I mean the the stretch and I thought where you were going with this was does a man want to listen to a woman But I think we're getting kind of past that point and I think you know, I don't think you care whether or not That's the other thing really we don't give a shit We never have really But what's also important is like I I've heard about men having experiences my entire life And I've paid attention because you're human and I want to know and it's interesting And if you have a punchline I'll listen to whatever you have to say So why is it not the same for me if I have a strong punchline?  Or what it feels like to walk down the street as a woman New York will do that They do I think tougher in clubs and it's very tough as soon as you leave new york If I go back I started in pittsburgh where we had three female comics and three blind comics So really it was tough Three blind comics three as many female comics as blind comics. I hope they start wild I mean, it's wild that there were three It would be great if the three blind comics booked the rooms. I know They just find a voice alone. I know that actually is really interesting But I mean just say there was there was three female comics So they had a bit of an excuse But when I go back there it is I am It hits you in the face immediately like oh, yeah, I am not Received the same way in middle america as in new york. Yeah, they do not necessarily The older white heterosexual male comics will say are you blaming the audience When it could be your fault But every comic can ask themselves that question my responsibility is to tweak To adjust my level to their level that and that is spot on that's what you have to do as a comic And you have to take responsibility any references that only make sense in new york You obviously have to change and it's the same kind of way you have to make the weather To a certain extent, right, but you should not change what you were saying. You shouldn't change what you're doing Well, maybe they need to hear it. Right. Let me Bring up this j. Leno interview that was in the new york times yesterday he said that It's easier now to be a comic To get to the middle Everybody can find their specific audience now. Yeah What's really hard is to get to the top because if you want to get to the top you have to speak to everybody And he kind of implied and it was I think he was edited david itzkov did the interview and he's He's been on this show I think david was protecting leno What's the matter What Oh against everybody's on the show against their So leno was getting into a little trouble I think he was edited but he was saying that if you want to get to the top You have to be more inclusive And that you have to be more watered down. I mean the truth of the matter is is I don't know if the top looks all that great especially now with the top is not only do you have to be Watered down where you say nothing because you can't offend anybody But now if you do anything that offends anybody they tweet attack you and now you lose all your endorsements and lived for sure What is short lived if you're at the top? Yeah, what does it mean? So in other words what leno was saying Is to get to the top You cannot only play to your crowd Do you have a crowd? Yeah, I think I have a crowd. Who's your crowd? I would say I mainly females and open-minded males I don't want to say like millennials, but I think I am liked by the millennial population Um, definitely brooklyn I mean, that's those are it's a home run area for me. You know what I mean? So maybe leno and the gatekeepers at the top If there are any left I said in gay men Well, that's millions and millions and millions of people. Yeah, it's millions and millions of millions of people Well, it's also we use a lot of people However, a lot of the stuff that I do might not work on mainstream television A lot of people either might not get it might be offended all these things So should I change that should I not include that in my act in order to get these opportunities? That's a decision that you know every time I get to make. Yeah, you have to decide Do I want to water down my voice that I've worked really hard to find in the first place? to connect with everybody and is that really connection Or do I want to be fully myself and connect with the people that I wish I knew in high school? You know what I mean when I felt very alone. So to me, I mean, I think a lot of My issue is that I why would I want to say what you want to hear when I could say what I want to talk about and just find my people I mean, that's why when you hear a song and it like blows your mind You're just like oh my god like I didn't even know that somebody knew what I was feeling And the I think one of the best feelings doing stand-up is where a joke that you love Does terribly except for like three people and they're dying. Oh my god. That is it literally is the best feeling or this is so alien to me It really is everything crushes for you. Well, we bomb a lot Yeah, I mean, it's a generational thing and it Well, we have we have more options. It's the tale of the comet thing where you can find your audience when I was starting out I knew who my people were And there weren't enough of them To please them so you or could you not get to them? I could I still can't get to them. They're in prison But you have to understand we have we have youtube we have netflix we have television Not even just tell them and we have like 500 channels on television. We have apps. There's so many ways There's twitter. There's whatever. There's so many ways for you to find not only how you're gonna Say your jokes and put it out there But how to connect to the people that are gonna get it the the biggest issue is how do you Monetize it so that you can make a career out of it. I'm gonna I'm gonna push back just because it's interesting to push back isn't Isn't there some value to the friction between the comic and the audience? Isn't there something funny about a comic Trying to make strangers laugh if you show up to perform for your people Then you don't have to fight for their love. Is that funny? I think it's still funny, but it's easier. Yeah, and I do think that's why you can see sometimes Known comedians start to Be less sharp. I won't say they're not funny But less sharp because as soon as they walk into the building people are just excited that they are who they are People know what kind of perspective to kind of Come about but I think some of the great comics that continue to push boundaries continue to They continue to grow like I was telling somebody the other day that like Think about Think about who you were when you were 10 and you were just trying to make friends And somebody you would show them something and be like, ah, it's dumb Right, and it would make you think well, is this really dumb? Do I want to show people and it kind of pushes you to move forward some of your closest friends You show them something and they go this is really good. This isn't good You can do better here and it pushes you forward But then you get to a point where you're at some point Valued that people don't want to tell you something is bad because they want to stay close to you for whatever reason And same with an audience and you don't get that feedback anymore And you actually lose kind of touch with your dial of what's pushing the edge. What's funny. What's different whatever So I think in some ways there's some people that have a natural way of Always pushing themselves and always becoming saying creative and getting better And then there's also people that once they have their audience and they can say whatever they want They don't really want to push themselves explain to me the joy that comes from telling a joke that only three people get Because it's such a specific experience Are you putting me on I I can't help but wonder if both of you are being disingenuous Really that you're lying to me or to yourself to give you an example that that this is so alien to me the idea I love this the idea that You go up in front of 100 people and How many three laugh I'm not saying 100 people. I was thinking more of a bar show where there's maybe 40 people And no that doesn't feel great when not everyone is laughing, but I think But when it's the difference between People just not understanding you and these people understanding you so hard that the peer pressure of other people not understanding you doesn't even bother Right, I cannot Do I want every joke to land that way? Of course you do. No, please. No, you of course when everybody's saying that's a fun Exactly, that's a fun little thing where I'm like, oh they get it and you're not terrified Not at that not if I have It's two different skills It's the difference between going into a party and being able to survive the party and walk away and people Be like, oh, I really like that girl. She was really cool And then somebody being like I want to hang out with that person all the time that person's awesome So it's the same thing where like I can I can survive a room. I can make a whole room laugh I know how to do that, but I really feel good when I connect with somebody Well, what you said before it's what kind of connection Do you want do you want this mass connection where you are more mainstream? Watered down as you said and it's resonating with everyone Offends nobody says nothing Right or a very strong connection with a few people who really understand the and a deeper experience that you're conveying Because we can all we can all sit here and be like member cell phones How did we ever meet people and make some kind of joke about the ability?  Yeah, of course isn't apple bees supposed to be different in each town Is that I don't think so I think that's their Really I think that's their business model where they what is different about an apple bees that you I think The idea is that every apple bees is different well even like mcdonald's is different in denmark than it is in america Oh, listen, if you want to talk mcdonald's I will talk mcdonald's I Not that I love mcdonald's food so much. I just love going to them and like the process of going inside It's so weird. It's so weird. There was the rock and roll mcdonald's in chicago. Have you been to that? Wow incredible. There's an escalator. I actually went to the mcdonald's at the louf There's a mcdonald's at the oh my I was like I have to their sandwiches have bernay's on them.  Yeah, I am I love Taco Bell too really. I've never had it. I think I would die Liz I think we met so many times and I haven't dragged you to a taco ball. I have a very fragile body I barely can eat real food let alone you shouldn't But I love that you're just like it's a new mcdonald's it is they're a lot nicer now every time I've peed in a mcdonald's Well, they you know what their model was they wanted to become more like starbucks. You peed at a mcdonald's.  They're immoral. They they're destroying the planet. It's bad. It's really bad I don't want to encourage it. But do you like the food? Do you like the taste? Yes, of course It's delicious Yes, I don't I don't want to eat it on a regular basis. You'll die. You saw the documentary but Yeah, it's really good. What do you eat there?  The chicken The situation is very immoral very immoral like they're raising chickens specifically for heads and stuff.   And they're like little pellets and they're milkshakes, right filler I hadn't heard about that. There's like some kind of ruin this for me david Yeah, she has very little to live for we're comics. Don't take this away from her. You do you girl And they don't pay minimum wage Or they do they do but they don't pay a livable wage is what I meant But nobody pays a livable wage, right? No, it's not good It's not good at all that being said if you were at the louvre and you need a little break you head to that mcdonald's What do they call a Quarterpounder in france Oh, that's a good question. Oh, you didn't see pulp fiction. Oh, okay. I haven't seen pulp fiction Oh, yeah, okay. I remember that So bad with movie lines. I can never quote comedy audiences Resist you in pittsburgh You say the mainstream generic comedy audiences So do you book your own shows when you go to pittsburgh dude? Yeah, I mean if I'm in the city and I'm in kind of like the Hyper neighborhood or whatever that's fine when I go out to the suburbs and also it's probably like, you know Sometimes my family's there and I'm like, oh geez. Okay, these people, you know It's a little more intense parents either really like me because they're like that's funny I was like that at one point or they're like wow I hope my child does not meet this person Stay away from my family that kind of thing. What is bitches brew? Bitches brew was a comedy show. It's a all-female run, but we book men as well if they behave and We Do a musical act as well Bitches brew So that you do stand up stand up. Yep, and you'll have oh you don't do A group musical you know, I mean not yet. Uh, that sounds exciting though No, we do like a musical comedy act Like you know, right and you say if the men behave Right.  No, they're fine I think I mean, that's the best part about booking your own show you book the people that you right not only respect I don't know if I should put this information out there, but I don't really care We discuss there's four of us who run it and We run by each other each person that we're going to book And if one person is like no he creeped me out or he did this to me He was rude. He was you know, whatever and we're like, okay, cool. You're uncomfortable. He's not getting booked so and A lot of people say like oh, is that you know, which hum mentality or whatever there's four of us That's just our system. That's how it works And I think we've gotten into that situation in the comedy scene in new york several times there's been people who have made So many poor decisions and offended so many people and made people so uncomfortable that they're not allowed at Certain venues or whatever and that gets trickier. But with our show, I mean, there's no question that that's the way to run it that seems to be Because of facebook. I think men are finding out That women talk about men There's a there's a grapevine Well, yeah, because you have to you have to protect yourself like at the this has been going on for ever Yeah, I mean we're more easily connected now even because there's facebook groups Yeah, like I said, it's very easy to communicate now. It's easy. Do you want if we talk about this because I think It's a new phenomenon because of social media Where there all it does is spread it out further. There's always been that connection That's always been that like here's somebody. Well, let's I don't want to speak in shorthand Because I have a lot of listeners who don't understand what we're talking about or maybe I just don't understand what we're talking about but I just heard at alex. It's a new phenomenon Okay, I know you you know a lot of people don't know about this because Men didn't know that women We're talking about them as Whether or not they were dangerous Right, this has been going on forever. I think men don't talk about a lot of the stuff that women talk about It shocked me sometimes social media Revealed a conversation that has been going on For millennia, right? Well, yeah, so much is in writing now. You can show people text You can show people emails, facebook, whatever. So when did when did this start? Did it start with facebook? What the ability to connect it because you like you said the conversation's always there I mean facebook groups kind of helped because there's one thing it's one thing for me to be like Hey, I saw you're on a show with this guy just so you know He's a little handsy whatever and women. I think owning their experience versus like and yeah not being scared Bring up, you know the cosby situation But I think a lot of those women only handled that situation within themselves And maybe didn't either were embarrassed or scared or whatever and didn't reach out to people And I don't know that for sure But I think now women are getting to the point where like oh, this is happening to a lot of us and Not only do I have a responsibility to myself to like process this and deal with it and move past it But also to prevent it from happening to other women. But in general hand for one second, please I don't like being yelled at by a man. Well, let me explain to you what that is And Alex is going to push back here and say I'm boring, but I don't care White people didn't know what it was like to be a a black driver until the iphone started having video capability That's a fact.  It's undeniable technology has created an empathy because we are seeing it It's more powerful. Okay Yes I have been saying on this show that women are changing There's something going on here and is it because partly Obviously because men are dangerous And but is it so you're saying that facebook?  Why didn't you tell anybody because it's such a shocking experience that Sometimes there's so much dialogue in your head that you don't always know how to digest it Did I somehow cause this maybe when you're threatened about it? Maybe he is going to harm me There's like a gazillion questions that go on before you even tell your best friend or a therapist or whoever So and that goes with anything But there's a lot of fear attached to it So then when you have a community of people that say hey, this happened to me Oh, this happened to me. Oh, this has happened to me all of a sudden you're now There's I do not know one woman that has never been molested who has never been inappropriately touched who has never been uncomfortable Because it's it's every from as young as seven. It's happened to you It is it's everyone's dialogue But before you were shamed into thinking that it was somehow you did something wrong or somehow You started this or something bad's going to happen to you if you tell somebody or you're gonna be ashamed if they weren't physically touched They were emotionally exactly So so now when you realize it's been happening to everyone You start to the dialogue doesn't have you don't have to have all these apologies and all these I don't know if this you can just say that it happened and you can move forward And then you can also be like this is what I've done to feel safe Like I carry around pepper spray and I carry around a safety cat which is brass knuckles that look like a cat They're illegal. I carry them. They've been taken away from me. I buy them for my friends Like I you know, I mean I tell my my sister first moved here when she was 18. I was like do not she loves music I was like do not walk down the street with your headphones in do not if you're on the phone do not be distracted Okay, so there's these things that you tell people and that's just like a basis. This is new york city This is da da da da, but now with a community Of a lot of men and we're not the most emotionally capable people went women or men A lot of shit goes down. We work late at night a lot of people drink and now people can say not to say Though everybody does it in the best light and there are people that um There's a lot of things that have been handled in our community that I don't completely respect But at the end of the day you can say from my experience this person has touched me inappropriately has made me feel uncomfortable Be be aware As I understand it Throughout the course of american history. There are these great awakenings spiritual awakenings where people suddenly Become like the evangelicals are part of this great awakening and cotton madder and It There is an awakening that's going on You're nodding your head in agreement.  Yeah, really? Well, I think there's there's been an awakening. There's an awakening and it started around 2012 What specifically in 2012 happened? I think there's this Confluence of facebook becoming Prevalent people think facebook has been around for a century right. It's only been around since 2008 2007 And and then not everybody was on facebook, but by 2012 Why I always say like I have I have the five thousand friends on facebook but If you friend request me if you for a crime I have three thousand mutual friends with you because it's like every single comedian I've ever met mostly new york's it like so all of a sudden my community I could message just about anybody in my community the ability to organize now is I think and we see that with the women's march The women's march couldn't happen 20 years and a group not a group think but a common a commonality and I think in 2012 You had this election where women Were reading news stories and they discovered that republican men Actually think that when you're being raped you can secrete a juice That prevents you from getting pregnant. Yeah getting pregnant Where rush limba doesn't understand how birth control Works there was the fluke lady who testified and rush limba pretty much said I don't want to pay for your birth control every time you want to have sex He actually thinks that you take the birth control pill Right before having sex. I think there was this awakening. There was this decision to not put up with that I think the slut shaming The word slut shame coming to fruition and I have a joke and that was actually the joke I was referring to when it's like the three people Because I told a joke that's now we have a word That allows you to like act the way that you want to act Which is so silly that like before there was this So much shame so much whatever around things and I always say you could have used that in 2004, right? And for women laugh because yeah, like this has been going on and we've been doing what we're going to do for so long But there was a lot of what it means slut shaming because facebook started off to shame women That's how succuburk started facebook Yeah, it was so you would rate. Yeah, you would be able to rate women. You'd be able to say if you were single or not So what is slut shame? I mean essentially what uh Happened with sandra fluke wasn't she was called a slut directly. Wasn't she? That's slut shaming.   We can act the way we want to act and we can own our experiences and you know Make decisions that we want to make and it doesn't matter what an old white man is saying And we're still fighting that obviously to the present day With everything that's going on in healthcare. Uh, it's what's going on in healthcare. Oh, nothing really No, I'm saying like they want to cut Planned Parenthood Planned Parenthood Um, we've been told that Shut up and make babies when somebody else decides you're going to make them No, and then they're like don't make babies But also we're not going to give you rights to abortion and we're not going to give you affordable birth control But don't have babies because the we're going to have to pay them for them And then we're not and then we're not going to take care of them when you do have them Exactly It's a really it's all of these these decisions are being made So that women are between a rock and a hard place at all times you can see that in our fashion You can see that in all of these different constructs that have been set up to keep women down It's really any kind of to me now a female upward mobility is trying to be stifled That is really what's happening is that just any like almost quality of life kind of stuff sometimes But it's really it's taking back with the with the birth control pill did for us and trying to eradicate it Because if you learn anything about abortion before the birth control pill abortion was how people That was their form of birth control and it wasn't seen as dangerous and it wasn't looked down upon I don't understand how this is only just a women thing our guy's not fucking as well Is this not benefiting you and why a mutual thing like you were creating life together Or using not to create create life together. It's a whole like it's how how I mean I think more and more men that we interact with our pro birth control and pro women's rights But for the most part it's like yeah, your life can be ruined too Like why would you not be on the side of letting us decide when and where we're going to have a child? I just to me It has everything to do with women's rights and it has yes, it's women's bodies But it's what happens when you give women the control over their bodies But there's also women trying to take that away as well But that's where it gets tricky.  I mean, I know I could sound ignorant there I think religion does play some of it, but I think a lot of it has to do with brainwashing and and Letting people like the same way that you can slut shame.   Yeah, there are there's sex workers. They're right now It why would you think there's not? Yeah?  Hi, honey. I'm leaving.  It'd be somebody's fantasy. They would do that It's they're letting them their person their partner knows that and that's how they Made money okay And I think that's a beneficial thing. I think a lot of it's easy if you You know, we're like, oh feminism, you don't want to you know, you want everyone to be smart and whatever No, it's about again making those choices and Creating kind of like a safe atmosphere if somebody needs wants to experience something I'd rather them pay someone in the right way. So it's a safe environment and they're not going out and you know Committing sexual assault Because they want to experience this a person two people consenting to something right and if there's a monetary exchange Because this person is that is their business and I think they should pay taxes They should they should pay taxes and there should be protection. There should be rates There should be all of these things. So someone's not doing this involuntarily Yeah, and So do you would there be women who would do that and Enjoy it. There already are. Yeah, and they enjoy it. It's okay. So let me just Dinosaur speaking here. Maybe maybe I believe this. Maybe I don't When you think of strippers We're always told well their daddy f them over Right That's not true No, I mean, there's always gonna there's always gonna be and I mean you could say that about just about every comedian Like I mean, I don't think we're much different from strippers. Something went on in our childhood And now we need attention by telling jokes. I agree with you. It's just a different form. I agree with you. I think we're exhibitionists So I I There's always going to be people that fit the stereotype. So you're but then there's people that like to dance There's people that love uh being open about their body. There's there's if somebody needs to do that as an outlet instead of Heroine or whatever then cool And they make so much money doing it from my friends that have stripped I mean they might do it. They might start doing it in a reason that's Not for the best reasons. I would say the same thing about stand-up It wasn't really the best reasons I got into it But now I love the craft and it makes me happy and I I like connecting with people in that way What's wrong with enjoying spinning around naked with booby tassels? I love burlesque dancing I think it's like amazing. I've seen women that like were strippers in like a seedy place And now they do it for like rock stars on huge stages as they tour the country You have to have really good abs to do some of those spins. Can I just be totally honest with it? I find this very confusing really. I do I really do What's confusing about it? Like pornography is And I do I I've seen porn I am Women have said to me these women are There's something women have said this to me that there's something wrong with Some of them might okay, but then there's a loaded situation with porn. Don't say a lot and I would record I just went to a talk On this Rashida Jones made this whole series for netflix. It's called hot girls wanted And it's about the amateur porn industry and that I think is different than the standard porn adult women making choices, you know, it's an acting job You have to remember it in that way. It is an acting job and if that person is consenting to it And that's what they want to be doing. You can't Not respect their desires and their wishes to do that.  And the woman Isn't ready yet. She has to take a pill and have a drink and has to Be a little intoxicated in order for her to film her porn scene If that's what she's that's a case basis. I mean it's I it's still If someone has to be here they have a beer before they do stand up I mean, that's also how many people say they haven't had sex sober Like in general in a personal relationship. I mean, I think A lot of people do stuff for the wrong reasons and it's their way of processing it. It's cathartic to them It's them replaying their abuse whether it's verbal physical or whatever I'm not saying it's right and that's the right way to process it. But if that's how they're processing it, what's wrong? I know that sounds, you know, I'm just saying Yeah, I don't want to say right in that sense Right, but it's also growth because my thing is if you keep replaying over your abuse And you never get past it then you're just replaying your abuse And that's why a lot of people that were molested end up molesting people as they get older Maybe that's not the best thing to say it has happened where people that have if you went to a shrink abuse others If you went to a shrink and said i'm a sex worker What would the shrink say? That's on the shrink. I think well, there must be standard operating procedure when a woman or a man comes to a shrink and says I make my money Having sex Well, it would be basically asking if there's a problem with that if they feel like they're doing it For reasons that like if they're ashamed because that's the other thing is if you're doing something and you're ashamed of it If I was ashamed of doing stand-up comedy the whole time, maybe this isn't something I should be doing I'm very ashamed of doing stand-up comedy all the time All right, so I go to a shrink and say I go to a shrink and say I only have sex with prostitutes or I only go to strip clubs and go into the vip room Well, that sounds more like an addiction If somebody says I make my money doing sex work if I was a therapist I would first check to make sure that they're in a safe Situation are they being controlled by somebody else pimp or are they like receiving their money? How are they doing it? You know now there's so much. I mean on the regular internet let alone the dark web I mean, I think that's the problem with it not being there's a dark web There's a whole dark web. There's a dark web.  I've not been on it. No, my brother talks about it though Does it really exist? Is that we're Bitcoin and everything? But that's also where a lot of selling women like literally selling sex slaves I mean now I will This is so overwhelming to even think about I Just watched a thing. There was a woman who I would never buy. I would never buy a woman on the dark web Are they selling enriched plutonium?  I mean that's when you get into a lot of like the underage stuff And I feel like that's what really needs to be regulated and it's not just the dark web They in the village voice They were advertising. There's one woman who was taken or she ran away from home was abducted at 15 Was sold through an ad in a local new york paper. I believe it was the village voice Sorry if it's on the back page back page type stuff So that's clearly in our face illegal. Nobody's doing anything about that There's loopholes where they can do that and that's what I think is really wrong. Is it funny? No I mean no, it is not. Is prostitution funny I think you can make anything funny, but you have to be respectful of who's being harmed in it I think that way I mean, I think you can joke about rape as long as you're being respectful of who's being harmed in it Are bill Cosby jokes funny if they're done. Well I think you can make anything funny. I would never tell anybody not to make a joke about something I do think certain topics you have a responsibility to be educated about it and understand respectful. Yeah, I agree Of the people involved in it because it's not your experience. Yeah, right We got to wrap it up. This has been very interesting to say the least With uh Audiences being judgmental. I talked about this last week. There was a comic Standing outside danger fields with me last week.  That's no no I mean now that there's everybody just like we said facebook people can band together and make a group Everybody can make a group You're gonna have a people that all are missing their left foot and they come together and they'll put in my experiences The dyke march with the woman showing up with the star of david and you're Yeah, and you're like, how do you marginalize within marginal? You know what I mean? How how would you ostracize somebody from a group that's already been ostracized? Absolutely ridiculous, but have you been yelled at by the pc police? Everybody has I don't think you can get away from it Okay, hang on. We're gonna we have to wrap it up. But just give me but give me an example of the pc Can a woman Be accused if I said something hugely racist, of course. Oh, right. Yeah, that's saying something That's sexist. Can you say something sexist? Sure, I could say something sexist against women and no, I mean can you say it right now? No, can can you say something sexist and women and women call you on it? Absolutely Is it happening a lot? Yeah, I think that's another whole part of it where it's like, that's not feminist and blah blah blah And I don't know if that's productive Yeah, as well other women turning each other for not being feminist enough or you know that kind of thing But absolutely there's more checks and balances and in some ways it's good in some ways This is comedy and everybody have you been Called out. Absolutely. I also so I have a new joke. I'm growing a mustache Um like legitimately and I've tried everything to get rid of it and I wrote it online But I also do it in my act where I say, you know, I've tried everything to get rid of it And somebody asked me are you transitioning and I said not willingly And a woman wrote to me and she was just like it's not okay for you to joke like that and I was like I understand That this might be Something that you read into and that you think is hurtful But I have several transgender friends. Many of them are comedians. So maybe it's a different Why would that be offensive? I don't I don't see it as offensive either. It's me talking about my situation Which is that I'm growing a mustache. I'm a woman that does not want a mustache And somebody asked me if I was transitioning and I said I'm not that's not what I want to be doing That's not that's not the goal of it. If anything I'm talking about but your body is turned against you Yeah, exactly and I'm but I think a lot of trans women feel that way I can see people being pissed about that. But I could also see I could also see trans women also supporting it where they're I could see that or transmit people that Feel like they were put in a different body and it's not functioning the way they want it to So if anyway, it's like why wouldn't this even be more relatable to you? Guess who it was a non-trans person that was calling me out on it Right because all my trans friends laughed and enjoyed it So it's usually people that are outside of it that start to be this pc police when it's just like it's not even your experience I don't understand why that's always been the case. Yeah, I used to do a bit We're gonna wrap it up. I used to do a bit going after vietnam vets I used to talk about why isn't there a memorial for the draft dodgers You know, we were the ones who really ended the war in vietnam by going to canada It's a bit and there would be people who walked out. I know somebody who was in vietnam the vietnam vets The wounded ones loved it. Yeah, because they get it protect yourself. Well, liz mealy. How do people reach you? Um, my website is liz mealy.com. M i e l e and everything is at liz mealy on all the social media Melissa stikowski. Yeah, I'm at m underscore st Okay, s super easy and uh, bitches beer, which we talked about is every friday at 8 30 at halyards In guanis in brooklyn so you can find that on facebook and I'd like both of you to spell your last names. Sure M i e l e that is correct. Thank you Mine's tricky. Let's see if I can get it s t o k o s k i thank you You're listening to highlights from the david feldman show heard nationwide on pacifica radio or as a podcast on itunes Stitcher and now youtube Please subscribe to this channel for more information go to david feldman show dot com Thank you for listening The david feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you You sad pathetic humps