Hello, everybody. Welcome.  I can see your very colorful panels under my participant tab and it looks like there's lots of folks here and we're really, really glad that you're here. We're all super enjoying air meat because, you know, it's no fun once you figure out one platform to just stick with it. So we're all in a new platform now and it's really fun to enjoy all the bugs that will know, like, will definitely be hitting us, but we're good to go. I wanted to direct your attention to a few things. If you're not in Chrome, that is the recommended browser for this platform. Folks are using other things with some success, but if you have trouble, you might want to try relaunching in Chrome that might make it easier for you. I wanted to show you the window. It should be over on your right hand side where you can see all the stuff that you need to make this panel work for you. First of all, you will see the chat and you'll see that Therese already put a little hello in there. We'd love you to say hi and tell us where you're joining from. If you want, maybe what your role is to, I'm sure we have a mix of pretty different folks from faculty, designers, librarians, all sorts of folks. So feel free to introduce yourself there in the chat. But I also want to direct you to next to the chat. You'll see those little talk bubbles. That is the Q&A. And it would be really helpful if you had questions for the panelists as we go to it's fine to put stuff in the chat. Chat back and forth. That's fine. But if you actually have a question that you want asked, please use that Q&A because it'll make it a lot easier for me to moderate as we go through And the more you put in the Q&A right from the start, the better will be because we've left lots of time to engage with your questions. So that's what we're doing there. The closed captioning is down at the bottom. You'll see the little CC. So if you need that, you can go ahead and turn it on.  So I'm really glad that you are here and I'm really glad that our panelists are here, some of whom I know from the Twitterverse and some of whom I am meeting for the first time Right here today. So I'm really excited to learn with them as as you do. I'm going to start with just one quick introduction of my own To talking about social annotation and hypothesis in my own life. And it was many years ago, many moons ago in the before times as we say now. And in the before times, I had decided to build a little bit of a of a digital anthology because I learned about creative commons and realized that I could probably replace all of the early American early American lit texts that my students were reading and paying Big money to Norton and Heath and, you know, Bedford St. Martin's I could probably replace those with public domain versions of that early literature and build a digital anthology. So my students and I actually did this together and we built a digital anthology and I put I don't even know how I initially found out about it, but there was this little upstart company called hypothesis. And they had made this digital annotation tool and somebody showed me because believe me, I did not know how to do anything, but somebody showed me how to put it into this little book that we had built For the class and what was really cool. First of all, was that I was so enamored with hypothesis because as far as I could tell Commercial ed tech was starting to eat my public university alive. Right. There was this sort of sense that if you just paid enough money, you could get the tool that was going to innovate The university out of all of its budget problems. And I loved hypothesis because it was nonprofit. It was built with educators and they were talking to me. They were like helping me learn how to use the tool. They were asking me what I wanted to do with it. They were kind of a new group and I met Jeremy Dean through that process and they kind of worked with my class on experimenting with how to annotate this little anthology that we built I had about 18 students in that class. And at the end of the semester, they had put over 10,000 annotations into this little book we built Which I'm sure was way more than they had put in any paper book we had used before. So I got kind of excited about how that was working and it really led to a total transformation of my teaching like no joke. The combination of the anthology software I was using, which was press books and other open source software and hypothesis. Really led me to open pedagogy, which is sort of the pedagogical house in which I dwell now and I think about open pedagogy really is having kind of two main strands. The first that it sees learning as a path to social justice and I'm using Sarah Lambert's work here. I'll put it in the chat in a little bit. But she talks about redistributive justice right with the open source tools and And sort of thinking more about public access that more people can have access to the conversations and to the learning And we sort of redistribute knowledge so that it's not just concentrated into elite place spaces. Also, recognitive justice, which is that students can start to recognize themselves in the materials. So in the sidebar, no matter what you're reading, you can hear the voices of people like you of you of your of your classmates. And then to a certain degree, you have a kind of representation in what knowledge looks like you start to affect what knowledge is by contributing to that commons. And then second it's open pedagogy sees learning as collaborative and ongoing the idea that There may be an idea out there, but as more diverse voices process that idea think about that idea that knowledge will be improved over time. And I will tell you this changed everything about how I've been teaching, you know, I went from being I think a pretty solid teacher for 1520 years. All of my practices transformed within a couple of semesters because of the doors that opened through this project that I did so I'm really excited to be hearing from these other folks who come from diverse areas. Of our fields, because we, you know, we come from teaching we come from instructional design. There's lots and some of us are using hypothesis and scholarship. So what we're really focused on today is the practices, you know, what do you do what things come up for you. So please take a look again at that Q&A button and as you're hearing from these different folks. You can feel free to note their name if you have a question for specific one, but I'm going to ask each panelist in their turn to start with a brief introduction of themselves and then give us just about five minutes of how you use hypothesis or social annotation. And what you think are some of the big takeaways challenges that kind of stuff. So We will go in order here that I have written down. But if at any point, you know, you guys want to jump in that's that's fine. We'll have time for sort of cross talk after everybody presents. So if it's okay, we will start with Maritas. Thank you so much, Robin. Such an honor to be here with you and with all of the attendees today at the social learning summit. How exciting. I'm going to share my screen with you. And as Robin said, my name is Maritas. Maritas Apigo and I'm the distance education coordinator, open educational resources coordinator and an English professor at Contra Costa College. I'm using hypothesis in my freshman reading and composition courses. Our college is part of the California Community College system. We're located in San Pablo, which is on the cusp of Richmond. If you're familiar with the Bay Area. At our college, we have a population of 90% students of color and my classes are online and hybrid classes. And I've been using hypothesis in two of my classes. One is called English 1A, which is Reading in composition class and an English 1A X class, which is also a reading composition class. And this class has an ESL focus. So I teach ESL students advanced ESL students in that class. And I'm using the reading apprenticeship framework and let me drop a link for you all in the chat in case you're interested in learning more about this. This is from West Ed. And and they really incorporate four dimensions of reading the social, the personal, the cognitive and knowledge building. I really love reading apprenticeship because it has students engage in metacognitive conversations about what they're reading. We I use a think aloud model at first where I kind of model for the students, what's going on in my mind as I'm reading and kind of slowing down The the all the great strategies that happen in the mind of a good reader. And then after modeling that for students. They also start to learn those things and practice them with one another and Hypothesis has been a wonderful space for us to apply this framework because in the margins of the text, you see the whole conversation of what students are thinking and what they're engaging with one another about the text. So I really love the this framework. I'm also incorporating some specific reading strategies with my students and these are the six strategies that we're focusing on. And so the first one is to make connections that good readers, they notice different pieces of texts that relate to or remind them of something else in their lives. Or other books or movies that they might have seen or even people or issues. We're practicing how students Could visualize what they read in their mind that they can have a picture or even see a movie of what is happening in the text. Students are practicing asking questions before they read during the reading and even after to better understand the meaning of that text. We're also practicing inferencing so they're drawing conclusions based on their own background knowledge and the clues in the text. They're looking for what is important and they're looking at different text features any kind of visuals. And they're also after their reading, they're going to be writing. So they're also thinking of what might be important quotes that they can cite later on in their writing. And then lastly, students are also practicing a reading comprehension strategy of synthesizing combining new information from what they just read with their existing knowledge and forming new ideas and interpretations. So those are the ones that I really love to to have my students practice and my students are the authority. Just like Robin said earlier, learning is a collaborative experience in my classes as the students are exchanging ideas with one another in the margins. I've gotten some really amazing feedback from my students. 86% of them said that they found this really useful as a learning tool. 72% said that it really helped them think critically about the reading. 64% said it helped them understand what they're reading. And 64% also mentioned that they learned a lot from their classmates annotations. So so by engaging with one another in the margins, they're learning from one another at the same time. And I do have one quote I'd like to share with you from a student who told me that hypothesis is great for discussing aspects of the reading and expanding on each other's annotations. I like being able to see which highlighted parts of the reading stood out to other students and seeing if someone wrote annotations about the same parts that I did. So I'm going to pause right here. Thank you so much. Lovely. And we're already got some discussion going in the Q&A. So I just want to remind you keep popping it in there. And I also want to say there's no right kind of question. So if you want to ask something really instrumental about a technology or you need a link or whatever, put it in there. But you can also ask broad conceptual questions as well. So we welcome anything. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to our next speaker on who will be Dana. All right, give me one second to pull up my screen here. Hopefully people see it. Perfect. Okay. And don't forget also guys, you have those reactions at the bottom and look like you can flood the screen with all sorts of joy. So, you know, let it fly. Okay. All right. My name is Dana Conard. I work for online education at University of California Santa Cruz. My role is instructional technology specialist. So I'm an interesting intersect in this panel as I'm not a formal instructor, but I do teach teachers about technology. I'm also a secondary source for hypothesis in the classroom, but instructors are always really happy to share things that they love and also equally vocal about things that they don't like. Not hypothesis, but you know, anything that's going on in their classrooms. To prove through the rest of these bullet points, online education, we're a team of educators, instructional designers and technology specialists who work with instructors to develop online and hybrid courses. During the transition to emergency remote instruction, our unit was in a unique place to be able to support the entire campus. As they suddenly had to learn instructional technologies like Canvas and Zoom, things that we rely on today. Our unit also works very closely with our Center for Innovations and UTM Learning Unit. So we were a nice double team of pedagogy informed decisions and assisting instructors with the technological aspects of implementing the things that they wanted to do in their classroom. And a bit about UCSC, you've probably read this already, but we're pretty big school. The first UC School to adopt hypothesis as my personal badge of honor here in fall 2020. Our mascot is the banana slug, which hopefully explains the image that you see at the bottom right of this. It is a banana slug laying on a book with a heart above its head. So again, my teacher experience is a summation of teachers come to me and saying the things that they really like about hypothesis. It's also really heavily informed about my excellent colleague, Megan McNamara, who had a lot to say about her use of hypothesis in this last quarter. Of course, there are other benefits, but these are the ones that I hear most commonly from our instructors. So fantastic low-stakes assessments. One of the biggest shifts that we saw at our campus, and I'm sure many campuses was moving away from high-stakes assessments to low-stake assignments like this. Students really loved hypothesis because it was far less stressful than weekly quizzes or high-stake assessments at the end of a unit or a quarter. Far more engaging to read. A near constant source of frustration that I heard from instructors was that it's hard to just get students to read. Hypothesis does this so much better than when the instructor just posts their reading as a file on canvas. And even if the student doesn't necessarily read all of the text in hypothesis, they're reading some. And they're able to engage with it a lot deeper than if they have been passively reading it. Interacting with the text like this in an active learning activity results in much stickier learning for them, so it's a benefit to them. Community building. As other people have mentioned too, it's not just seeing your own annotations and how they populate the text, but also seeing how other people interact with the text. So, not just students strictly consuming the course materials one-on-one, but learning as a community together. I saw a lot of comments that were, to second, maritas, students learning from each other and saying, I had the same issue or I had the same thought in connecting to other students' annotations. My favorite is the equalizing student voices. I was a very shy student and if there was, if I was in class and we were discussing a reading, I had very slim chance that I would raise my hand and participate. Even if I did the reading, and it's not because that I didn't have an opinion, but I'm far more comfortable sharing via text than I would be raising my hand and sharing out loud. With text, I can formulate what I have to say. So, with hypothesis, it really would allow a student a space to practice what they're going to say so that they're able to edit their annotation, post privately to them, draft it, and then post it. So, it's equalizing for those students and also everyone participates. So, no one student gets to dominate the conversation as what might happen in live discussion. As I said, mainly my role is teaching teachers about hypothesis, how it benefits their students and helping them get set up. Hypothesis is really helpful about their tool is so hands-on and the best way to get them to know it is a hands-on demo of it. Once they start using it, you can start to see their gears turning about other ways that they can start using it that aren't just texts like syllabus annotations or annotating lecture slides. To help with this, I created a self-paced Canvas course about everything hypothesis, how to use it, why to use it, sample guidelines, and a lot of resources for instructors in a centralized Canvas course. My favorite activity at the top of the course is the screenshot that you see on the slide. It is a kind of meta-hypothesis activity where I'm asking them, I made a Google doc of the key features of hypothesis and they annotate directly on the instruction page while using the tool. So, it's a good way to introduce it to them while they're using it. The other big self that I have for hypothesis for instructors was it's so flexible. Flexible for any modality. Our campus started transitioning to mostly in-person at the beginning of this year, but as we all probably experienced, that was a little bit of a flux. Hypothesis is totally immune to these modality shifts. Teaching in person, emergency remote, hybrid or online works for all scenarios. And looking at the dashboard of our hypothesis activity as a campus, we have the highest number of annotations per day and students per day in our spring quarter that just finished. So, it's interesting that teachers are continuing to use this tool even now that we're back to 90% in-person. So, however you're teaching, you can still use it. And my last slide is the unexpected benefits of hypothesis. I wanted to share how hypothesis has quietly pushed accessibility in a really good way. Since hypothesis requires optical character recognition and instructors mostly didn't know what that meant, I had to figure it out and then do it for them. This was my first step into document remediation. At first I was only doing OCR because that's all hypothesis required, but it's become, I've learned so much more now about document remediation and accessibility. So now I'm not just doing OCR, but I'm doing tags and reading order and appropriate metadata. And by and large, all of the files are far more accessible than what they had before. This also allowed me to start a conversation about accessibility with instructors. When they had asked me about OCR, I can share other accessibility best practices that can inform their teaching. Sometimes it's really hard to talk to instructors about accessibility because it can kind of feel punitive or they can feel targeted or shame for not being 100% compliant. But this opens up the dialogue in a much better way. And to their praise, hypothesis really cares about accessibility too. We recently had a blind student who relied on a screen reader when I reached out to hypothesis to see how she would use it. No less than three hypothesis people met with me, the teacher and the student, to talk about her experience and take her feedback. So it was very valuable and we feel very supported by hypothesis and it's been a great tool in addition to our campus. Last quick slide, the self-paced Canvas course is available. I'll drop it in the chat. Sorry about that. Publicly available. You can visit it. I dropped it in the chat. It's not in Canvas comments, but I'm happy to share it with anyone. So that is it. Thank you so much, Dana. I know people were definitely lighting up when you were talking about the accessibility stuff. Totally. It makes me think too about, again, Sarah Lambert's piece on open pedagogy and social justice. Because I think thinking about accessibility, not so much just in terms of like tech tools, but as a mindset with which you approach your teaching and your pedagogy. And I feel like, you know, the making sure that the tool is accessible sort of one piece of that. And thinking about, you know, all of those sort of access pieces as you move into like using digital tools. It's really interesting. I'm also interested, maybe some of you guys have, and we could talk about this later, whether people have experience with how people do with mobile phone use. Just because it's always one of the challenges when you're dealing with open source stuff that's an OER that you're using online and you're doing annotation, but of course so many of our students have trouble affording, you know, my students can often afford laptops, but a lot of times they're really shitty laptops and they're not working at the time. So anyway, really great stuff for us to talk about. So we'll talk more about accessibility as we go on. With that, I'm going to turn it over next to Christine who's going to take it away. Hi everybody. So before I begin, I'm going to give everybody a break from slides. I did not present slides. I just actually want to tell a story of hypothesis. I'm an instructional designer here at Colgate University in upstate New York. We are a small residential college of about 3000 students and 300 faculty. As an instructional designer, I am in ITS Information Technology Services here at Colgate, but we partner very closely with our Center for Teaching and Learning. I have been supporting hypothesis for five years here at Colgate, so I very much supported it before the pandemic, through the pandemic, and it has been something that has stuck. I'll tell you a little bit about why I think that is the case at the end. But for context here at Colgate, we are a residential college, so we do not do any online courses at all. So the pandemic, a lot of the same growing pains were experienced by faculty here. So I just think that's important context when I work with faculty, it's around their use of hypothesis. It's for in-person, face-to-face courses. So I thought for my 10-minute presentation that I wanted to tell you all the story of my favorite annotation that I saw a student make on a reading, and it happened this past spring. But before I tell you what that annotation was, I feel like I need to set the stage, give you some context for the annotation, so I'll get to that in a moment. But this annotation appeared in a course, an economics course, and I've been working with this faculty member for quite a few years. This professor uses social annotation and hypothesis to help students navigate economic research articles. So this is a senior seminar, students are working through some really tough economics articles. So this professor uses social annotation and hypothesis to really help students navigate a scientific research article. So one thing that this professor does is in advance of assigning the paper, he will seed the article with annotations that are meant to guide posts to students as they work through the article. So he might provide a definition of a term so they don't have to spend time remembering what that term means, we'll just give them the definition. He'll also seed it with annotations to remind students that this concept relates to that concept we learned in week two, for example. The annotation assignment for students is really meant, students are asked to use their annotations as a way to help each other navigate the article. Students are asked to comment, evaluate the research design of this paper, is this design appropriate for answering the question for the study. So that's a little bit of the context. Also questions and answers, the professor also uses it as sort of a diagnostic assessment in that way, like where are students getting hung up in this article, or when they're answering the questions, are they giving a full answer. I also want to echo what Dana said earlier, the experience of being a quiet student. This professor a couple of years ago noticed that the quiet students were the ones that had a lot of really insightful things to say in the margins, and this professor was just so amazed, if you will, of when the quiet students pop up in the margins and they actually have a lot to say. So I just wanted to echo that Dana. Okay, so that's good. And I, before I continue telling the story, that model of using social annotation as a way to help students navigate scientific research articles. That has been a pretty popular assignment here at Colgate. I've seen professors in biology and also psychology doing the same sort of assignment. But here hypothesis of a pretty interdisciplinary spread of the faculty who are using hypothesis. Okay, so now I need to get to the reading upon which this annotation appear. This was a reading that was authored by the professor. This professor is a tenure track professor. And the article is like their big publication, like this was a publication that they've been working many years on. It's like going to be like the big one in their tenure dossier. So the professor assigned this his own article because of it relates to the topic of the course. But this the professor really told students like this is what it took to get this article published. Like this paper got rejected six times before it got published in a top field journal, right. So students really kind of understood like the story behind what it takes to be an economist. So that's the reading and now for the annotation. So, and I know this because the professor took a screenshot of this annotation. So that's how I'm going to kind of play it describe it to you. So a student in this course highlighted the the professor's name. He was the first author of the paper. So the student highlighted that his name and the annotation was what I call the boom emoji. Or it's actually like the collision emojis. You see that emoji that I just put in the chat. This student annotated the professor's name with that emoji. So the professor sent me a screenshot of that. So what do you what like what do you think of this? What is this? How should I interpret this? And to be honest, we had to Google the meaning of that emoji. I actually have the definition of that one of the definitions of that emoji. I'm going to put that in the chat as well. And we interpreted this boom emoji to mean like great job. Like that is huge. Like you're on fire. Right. And and I just and so then I was like, it's okay. This is a good thing that this was a good emoji. Right. And so I share this story because it was just this happened like early this past spring. And it was just I've never seen an annotation like that before. And I think it was just powerful on a couple different levels. So keeping on my time I want to nail it down to the two things that I really found most powerful about this. One is that hypothesis enables you to use media. Right. This is a digital tool. So hypothesis recognizes emojis, but you know, also gifts or memes or YouTube videos you can embed pictures. So I just thought that this tool gave this student another way to communicate. Not just like a thought, but like some emotion and some sentiment. And I think it would have been awkward actually if the if this student wrote like, hey professor, nice job on publishing this article. Right. Like the text might have been a little awkward, but somehow like the emoji captured the sentiment. So again, I think thinking from like a universal design perspective, giving students multiple ways to express themselves in the margins of a text. I think is just incredibly powerful for meaning making and for teaching and for learning. And the second thing that I found so powerful about this was again the social element. Right. Like for a student to do the boom emoji on the off the professor's name and then for the students who entered afterwards to see that react like the student had that reaction. I imagine again just like helped all their students see like, hey, that was a big, that was a big achievement that the professor did. Now I understand too that some professors might not think an emoji is an appropriate annotation, but that's a sidebar for another time. But I just wanted to leave you all with that story because I think it just really captures a lot of positive things that were happening in the margins of a text in one particular course. So with that I'm going to pause and thank you for all lighting up all the screen with all those emojis I think it was perfect for the theme of my talk so I'll pause for now but keep it going. And I think we could all agree it depends whether it's appropriate or not depends on which emoji you attached to your professor's name right. That's such a great story actually I can't remember who said what because I've been listening to social annotation stuff now for hours. Amanda or read or somebody there in another panel, they were talking about how to make sure that your students annotations are substantive rather than that stuff we used to get on discussion board posts like I totally agree with what you're saying about that I agree with every single thing you said or whatever. But I think there's another part that you're bringing up Christine which is it's also okay to sometimes not be substantive but instead to focus on the rapport of a learning community. I feel like that's been such a big part of hypothesis in my classes and it enables the substance because they end up being comfortable with each other and and just finding such great pleasure, you know and interacting so I love that story. We are going to have a final presenter now and I want you to keep using your Q&A there's lots of stuff coming in there so I will turn it over to Amy. Sounds good thanks let me just make sure that I'm able to share my screen like I did five minutes ago. I feel like that only do we not have a screen share but I think perhaps we don't have an Amy.  Sorry about that let me say. I have found air meat to be it's actually a tool it's working really well but the screen sharing part of it is is trickier than zoom for those of you who are at home watching this. I agree I've been having some trouble with my my camera keeps going out too. You know what I apologize for this everybody but I'm going to jump into the other browser I apologize I will be right back maybe you could have a conversation. I'm going to do while you're gone. No we're totally ready.  The other folks about syllabus annotation somebody mentioned it and I'm not totally sure that all of our listeners would know what we mean by that and it's such a great ideas is there one of you guys who has maybe done that or wants to talk about what it means to do syllabus annotation with social annotation. I can take a I can start because a professor who did syllabus annotation was actually a powerful moment here at Colgate they did it and then that really kind of caught on here. So at we first encounter with this particular faculty member and I first heard about Remy Collier doing syllabus annotation. I don't know if someone from Hypothesis in the chat can can reference Remy's affiliation with Hypothesis he's at UC Colorado at Denver. But the idea that you have students annotate your syllabus using Hypothesis with the think you know with the idea that it gives a student a chance to ask questions of things in the syllabus and enabled you to check for their understanding of certain assignments. And I have seen a faculty member here actually students asked questions about things that weren't clear in the syllabus so they were able to correct it almost immediately. And then I think they did it in the first week of class so by week two they had a new syllabus that integrated a lot of students comment so I'll pause there. Perfect and great to get Remy's thing in there as well so okay Amy how you feeling. I think we're good. We'll give it a shot. Here we go. All right. Can you see that okay. Perfect. Okay, very good. So I like Dana. I am a instructional design consultant. So I also teach in my own discipline which is visual visual art and art history. But my primary responsibility has been to work with other instructors to help them shift their courses from a traditional face to face course to an online and a blended course. And in the process of doing that I support a number of technologies. The one that we're going to talk about today is hypothesis. I wanted to talk a little bit today about how our university came about adopting hypothesis. For those of you who are really interested in hypothesis but maybe don't know exactly how you're going to get it on into your campus. So how we did it is that we worked through an initiative that was already on our campus for open textbooks and open educational resources. So we have an initiative on our campus that has some funding associated with it. And so we write for funding every year to pay for hypothesis. I think you first learned about hypothesis. I think maybe Robin, I think you said that you first learned about hypothesis through press books. That's how we first learned about hypothesis as a plug into press books. But I immediately saw the value and the incredible possibilities of hypothesis. And so after that we went through the process of adopting hypothesis and integrating it into our LMS, which is Canvas. And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that as well. One second here. So, again, one of the ways that we were able to pay for this is through educational technology fees. This is a student-generated fee that is associated with the online programs at our university. And so we're able to, again, write for that funding and then be able to pay for hypothesis that way. So our initial pilots, we were able to get hypothesis integrated with Canvas. In Canvas, you can integrate hypothesis either through an assignment where there is grading associated with the activity, or it can be an external sort of tool that is linked as a link. So there's no grading associated with it. Early on, we had hypothesis come and do training for us, which was excellent. We learned a ton of really great ways to use hypothesis in courses, and then we sort of started to roll with it from there. I've written quite a lot of documentation that sort of helps our instructors in a similar way that Dana was explaining, that helps our instructors implement hypothesis in their own classrooms. And then we also do quite a number of trainings, virtual trainings. So we had really amazing response. I've said this before, but I will say it again. The data that we got back for our students and instructors was so incredibly strong. It's probably the most positive feedback that I've ever received in my whole career for an instructional technology. I'm going on a 20-year veteran with a lot of different technologies that I have rolled out in pilots and pushed out to the campus, and this is by far the most positive response. So our instructors, all of them, every one of them, found it to be useful, and they'd recommend it, and they'd be disappointed if they couldn't use it again. A couple of nice quotes. I like this idea that the instructors use this with their synchronous sessions. There's, I think Amanda in our last session had some really great information about how she integrated this in her synchronous session, so she was able to go back and read through information, and this is very similar to how our instructors did it, read through information that was delivered inside of hypothesis. In the Canvas course site, prior to the synchronous session, and then flesh that out and have the students continue to have conversations about that in the synchronous sessions. They were really excited about the meaningful ways that the students were engaging with the text. And then here's the really amazing part of it. If any of you have done surveys with students about educational technologies, it's challenging for students to sort of have the distance or the metacognitive sort of ability to recognize how an educational technology has impacted their own learning. And so very often you get sort of lukewarm kind of responses from students, but this response was incredibly positive. So 95% of the students in our pilot found it to be useful and 75% would be disappointed if they couldn't use it again. Now, given the fact that they don't really, most of the students would rather not have to do the work. This is a really positive feedback, 74%. So here's a couple of nice quotes that I really liked. It allows me to interact and converse with my with other students in an interesting engaging platform. The readings are more engaging. And I really like this one. I think this goes over back to Dana's comments about accessibility. Students that struggle with reading at a decent pace and understanding written materials would really appreciate this tool. I normally have a hard time reading and have to reread things multiple times in order to understand and process information, but hypothesis helps me to understand the material more quickly. So along with the accessibility features that Dean has already talked about, along with the open educational resources that we've really linked this to, there's also a comprehension and all of this is sort of building up to equity and ensuring that their student success, regardless of the student's background and regardless of what they're coming in to the course, open educational resources are giving them access to textbooks early when they may not be able to afford the textbooks. And then this ability to interact and engage with peers is really leveling that playing field and really making learning more accessible. Better understand and be able to engage with fellow students. I love this. I felt like it was like reading a paper alongside everyone else and we were talking as we went. So we ended up with such a positive feedback. We ended up implementing this for our entire campus. We had a number of instructors who were really excited about it and voluntarily did presentations at our symposium that we have once a year. So we had use cases. They gave a lot of ways that they were using it in their own class and their own feedback that they'd received. And then some really nice information about some very detailed ways that they'd used it including rubrics and things like this. So one of the additional ways that we have implemented hypothesis is to begin to roll out open educational resources and open textbooks in our schedule of classes. So what we've been able to do is to create a filter in our schedule of classes so that students can go in and identify courses that are using open educational resources. And in many cases hypothesis so that they're able to sort of self select into those courses. And so this has been very positive development on our campus. Just the last couple of things here I want to mention how wonderful hypothesis is I agree. I agree with with Christine they've been wonderful at being able to support us and help us very good web based documentation and materials. Lots of workshops really great support so we've been really really grateful for hypothesis and all of the effort and time and energy they put into ensuring that we're using the tool properly and and effectively. I do have some additional data here from the pilot after the pilot the immediate next semester after that initial pilot we had a 340% growth in usage so it's it's sort of an amazing thing. Again something I've not ever seen where the growth of the tool is really dependent on word of mouth from peers and so rather than me going out and although I do help but rather than me going out and pushing this tool. It's really being spread by instructors talking to other instructors and getting them excited about it so that growth is really grassroots. So I won't go into some of these other just to stay on time but that we had really great responses both from students and instructors and continue to have that even after that pilot is over. So I will end there and turn it back over to Robin. Thank you, Amy that was really great. If you get the impression that we are trying to sell you a hypothesis. Of course, look, I mean, come on, I'm wearing my hypothesis shirt. What's even more embarrassing is that my husband's, I'm at home today and my husband's walking around we didn't do it on purpose but he has his hypothesis. But it absolutely is important to me like so much you've talked about the responsiveness of the team there and I just want to say like it's important to me that we are not selling you something right that this is a nonprofit endeavor. And it really matters to me that we start looking at ethical ed tech that is responsive to educators. And it's, it's one of the main reasons that I am interested in companies like this and companies like press books. It's, it's really important, I think that educators are at the front of ed tech and not, you know, industry so to speak so hey Phil, come on and wrap your hypothesis T shirt. There he goes yeah see we're all here casual dressing today. Okay, go. So anyway, this is great stuff. And actually, I do want to say one thing like, you know, and I've talked with Jeremy and others all over the years as we're talking about how to support, you know, nonprofit approaches to educational technology and it's really tough right we and I think hypothesis doesn't have it all figured out and one of the ways that they that they do support the work is through the LMS integration where institutions can sort of contract with hypothesis. And so just to prove that I'm not working for hypothesis I want to ask panelists about that integration. Because I've kind of been of two minds about it like on the one hand, a lot of the time I do faculty development now and a lot of my faculty really appreciate that because the single sign on aspect is really helpful otherwise it's, it can be challenging for students to navigate, you know, just how to get into their accounts and they forget their passwords and there's bookmark let's versus what do you call them the add ons and plugins. So I think it's been really helpful and that's how the bulk of my faculty like to use hypothesis, but I've been so excited about the, the open web, you know, and the way that you can connect your students to folks who are working with you know all across the world really and use hypothesis as more of a tool outside of their walled garden of the LMS. So I'm curious for you guys. What you think about the LMS integration, how that's been helpful. If anybody's using it outside of the LMS and if you just have anything to add about that. I really have a system for how you'll just do it so I think just jump in and like answer I don't think there's hands or you could just wave because I can see you also. As I mentioned before I've been supporting hypothesis for like five years and beginning with faculty who are using the web based version of hypothesis. So they have their students create a private group and then annotate privately but on the open web. So that worked and then it was they now just use it in we use moodle as our LMS. And so I think one nice one thing that faculty have appreciated about moodle is students are there anyways, like for all their other courses and they know the platform, and Hypothesis is such it feels like such an easy tool to use within moodle. It's not like a heavy lift. I think moodle is a heavy lift as an LMS but hypothesis itself isn't. So I think faculty have really I've seen the faculty that I know who did it, the web based free version have shifted to using it within moodle and that has been a positive experience. However, if for the faculty who have been supporting the longest or like my hypothesis rock stars, if there was a pedagogical reason for them to be annotating out in the open, they understand what that means to annotate like on the open web. So I don't want to make it sound like there aren't people who understand the power of that here at Colgate but it does seem like, again, many of them made the shift at the height of the pandemic. I'm like, we're going fully into moodle. So I think that was part of the story here at Colgate but yeah. Go ahead, Amy. Um, yeah, I agree with you Christine there's the, the single sign on the ability to for students to move through their modules, you know move through their exercises, they get to the assignment, where they need to annotate a text, they annotate a text their instructor can grade that text that's the wonderful thing about, you know, the integration with canvas at least is that it integrates with the speed grader so the instructor can go right in grade work flows right into the grade book. They love that. I was especially interested in Amanda's comments in the last session about the way that social annotation is different than discussions. And it's one of the main reasons why I was so fascinated with hypothesis. The reason I saw it is because I, I'd spent, you know, 15 years supporting instructors using discussion forums in in their LMS, and this allows the students to annotate within and have a discussion within the context of the reading itself. So, again, the fact that it's integrated with the LMS I think reinforces the fact that this is part of the course, and that what the students are doing in that activity is, is furthering the their learning it is about learning. There's absolutely ways that in use cases pedagogical need where an instructor would want to have an outside voice, but I love the fact that it's integrated and our instructors generally love the fact that it's integrated. Awesome. So there are lots of questions coming in. So we can get to some of those. I also wanted to mention, I was at a talk recently by Claire major, I just, I think I just put that in the wrong place I just put it as a question I don't have a question about clear major very ago I put it in the chat now. But she was talking about some of the myths that we have about the science of learning. And she said, for example, it's actually the data doesn't support the idea that underlining or highlighting, or even rereading effects reading comprehension very much. What you really need to do is to move from into deep learning and the way that you move into deep learning is by making those connections between for example students prior knowledge and the text at hand. All the things that we do in annotation. And I thought that that was really interesting when you were talking about sort of the ways that the students say it really helps their comprehension. And I think, you know, I've seen students who struggle with reading and then they show you like look I highlighted every word you know I spent so long on this, and I still don't understand it. But some of those gifts and those things that they're able to enjoy in the sidebar makes such a difference. So I love that point. Yeah, go ahead. I wanted to share, Robin, your example, you're talking just now reminded me of an example of assignment that I saw a professor do. You know what's neat about hypothesis is that those annotations remain on the readings. So I think this was for a final exam, a professor had their students go the assignment was go back and find like 10 or 12 annotations that have been made on previous readings in this course. They can be your annotations they can be annotations from another student and go back to those annotations and reply to those annotations and add additional meaning or knowledge that you have gathered since the eight weeks that that annotation was first made. And again, I thought that was a really interesting way to leverage the tool to get at some of that deeper learning Robin was talking about the idea that, you know, the annotations don't don't have to end because the reading was due. And so I just thought it was really creative of this professor like go back and let's use the annotations that have been made on the course and build upon them as evidence of your learning at this point at the end of the class. So, again, I thought that was a really creative assignment. I love that that is awesome. Absolutely. Yeah, like, Yeah, it's like, you know, because that's what really trying to have students do is to is is have a better understanding of what they've learned and how it's impacting, you know, their lives and their their academic experiences and that that metacognitive sort of analysis is really difficult to get students to do. But if they can go back and review material like that, it allows them to make those connections, not only to the things that are also that they also learned in the course, but to other things and other courses and the things that are happening in their lives. So that is really, really excellent. And again, the discussions only go so far with that because, as we've said many times those discussions are sort of at this high level. But the fact that it's in the context of that reading really grounds that in a completely different way. It's really that's a really great example. Thank you. Any other comments from Maritaz or Dana. Otherwise, I can go on to another question. Yes, I just I'd like to share a couple of other ways that some of my colleagues at Contra Costa College are using it. I was able to share with you all how I'm using it in English and how it's really a useful tool for getting helping students comprehend what they read. But we also in our creative writing, we also have one of our instructors using it with groups of students who are exchanging peer review and giving feedback on each other's work. So that was another really creative way to use hypothesis. And we even have our journalism department using it and having students identify different strategies being used in news articles. And then we even have our nursing faculty having students annotate, you know, a chapter here and there. So so it's getting used not just in the like reading or writing classes. And so that's pretty, pretty exciting to see. And I see that Madeleine has a question in the chat if I can go ahead and respond to that about how you can use social annotation to help ESL students understand English better. And so one of the I mean, depending on the level right of the students that you're teaching, you know, I use it through when I teach ESL students to identify new vocabulary, just something as simple as you come across a new word. And then they have, you know, a series of things I want them to put into the margins for new words. But ESL students also are practicing the same strategies as, you know, the native speakers so that they can also become really strong readers. Couldn't find my unmute for a second. Excellent. Thank you so much. So I think I will go ahead and turn to some of the things that are in the Q&A. Some are a little more instrumental. Some are a little more conceptual. So let's just see what we can pull out here. So the first one, and I'm not sure maybe Dana or Amy might know, is do we have any data on hypothesis affecting enrollments at all? I think a related question, because I'm going to guess that maybe the answer to that is no, but if the answer is that we're not sure about that is also just student success metrics in general, because I know we're all interested in enrollments, persistence, retention. Does anybody have any data or maybe hypothesis folks may have something to throw in the chat on that as well. It's okay if not. We don't have anything currently, but that's a really interesting thing to look at. We've just implemented that filter for open educational resources. And while that's not necessarily a link to hypothesis, it may give a little bit of a good idea how many of those courses are enrolling over other courses. But that's a really interesting data set to collect. Yeah, and I'll just ask the hypothesis folks. If you have stuff like that, because I can certainly imagine it affecting even just things like DFW rates in a particular course. So anyway, this is a question that came from Jeremy and I think I would love everyone to answer this kind of just maybe in the order that we talked. If you could just say what kind of an institution you teach at, for example, small regional public or whatever, and how you think hypothesis has what specific challenges and possibilities arise for social annotation with the demographic or an institution like your own because you are all at very different kinds of places. So if you don't mind, Marie, tell us what you try starting us off with that. Sure. Yeah. So our Contra Costa College is on the smaller side. I'd say it's a small community college. And I shared earlier that we have a huge student of color population 90%. And we, I can't think of any specific challenges right now of anything that has arisen. We've been gaining like actually more and more widespread usage of hypothesis in different departments. So it's kind of exciting to see, you know, how it's spreading and other when new faculty find out like, oh, what are you using? What's that? How can I try it out? And so it just keeps becoming more and more widespread. Dana. It is an interesting question. I'd say that we're a larger university. And we just returned to not necessarily challenges, but the possibilities of social annotation. One of the departments that use hypothesis most among all of their instructors is our writing department. And they usually teach Frosh or incoming students so they get a good exposure to all the demographics of students that come to us. And they, and again, one of the benefits of hypothesis is the equalizing of voices. So whereas if you're having an in-person discussion, typically it might be that certain students that are more comfortable with sharing maybe male students, maybe white students dominating conversation. Hypothesis gives the power to all the students to use their own voice and give their own thoughts on things. And yeah, more empowering than a typical in-person discussion in my opinion, but I was a shy student myself. Thank you. Anything to add, Christine or Amy? I can add a little bit to that. So we're a very large urban institution in Milwaukee. And so we have some unique challenges for serving the population of our immediate regional area, which, so we struggle to retain students of color or students who may be less prepared in some way for higher education. So this tool, I think, I really believe that the feedback that we received in the student comments, not only the qualitative data, but that quantitative, or not only the quantitative data, but the qualitative data as well really demonstrates that the students found this to be very useful for them. They learned more, and while we don't have clear data of how that connects to retaining those students from their first to second year, which is typically a very difficult thing to do at our institution that transition from first to second year. Well, there's not a clear connection. I think that that anecdotal evidence is really, really clear. It'd be really wonderful if we could find some direct connection to back that up, but I think the anecdotal evidence is very clear. That is great. There is another question in the chat, and I'm hoping someone can find this link. I don't know if I can multitask and do it while I'm doing the rest of this, but it was about how to find ethical ed tech. And, you know, one of the first things I did when I started working with hypothesis was, you know, to look at their about page, you know, to figure out where their funding is coming from, you know, to look at who's on their staff and I know that Bonnie Stewart, if some of you are familiar with Bonnie, she does a lot of connected learning stuff, but she did a project with her students at Windsor University graduate students, I believe, where they created some kind of a rubric, I think, for evaluating ethical ed tech, and they ran a whole bunch of things through this rubric, I believe. A hybrid pedagogy used to have a similar thing that you could access, and I can share some of that later if I can dig it out or maybe people can find it in the chat. But I appreciate, you know, thinking not just about what the tool is capable of, but what's really the, you know, how is the tool built, and with what purpose, and what's the end game of the tool, right, is it just for profit or is it, you know, really part of a educational ecosystem. Oh, it looks like Mo, is that, is that the thing that Bonnie built, maybe, I think, but anyway, Mo's got something in the chat there that you might want to take a look at, that's an answer to one of the questions that was in the Q&A. Okay, I'm going to go to another one, and I can answer this if no one else can, but hopefully someone on the panel might do this as well. If you don't have a hypothesis license, but you want to try this, and sometimes it kind of takes a first adopter to go out there and show that it works and then bring it into your IT to your teaching and learning center and say, hey, look, I tried this thing, it was awesome before you can get people to sign on. So if you are one of those first adopters at your institution, can you do this without the support of your school or without a contract and like how, how would you get started I know in the Q&A hypothesis is offering lots of support, but has anyone done that or known of people who have just tried it on their own and had success. I wonder if Jeremy may help jump in on that if he's available. We were able to have a pilot with hypothesis that we were able to do without putting money forward at that point, but he may have a better idea about what that is. You know, if you wanted to try to use the tool, even if it wasn't integrated with your LMS, there certainly is the option to use the tool on web documents, right, that are outside of the LMS. In the last session they talked about, you know, using it on WordPress platform and adding text through WordPress platform and then annotating that text there. So I think it's absolutely possible to try it out before even without an LMS integration. Yeah, I totally agree. I've only ever used it outside the LMS and and loved it. I think you will definitely hear the biggest challenge is just the lack of the single sign on means people lose their passwords they can't remember how to log in and it's always good fun there but I am seeing in my secret presenter chat that pilots are free this fall so if you are interested in that talk to the hypothesis folks because they might give you an integration for no cash money down. Okay, Christine. Oh, I just wanted to say, you know, as a faculty developer instructor designer talking with faculty members about what can happen in hypothesis. It has actually been really helpful to know about things that have been annotated in the public outside of an LMS so that I can have annotated documents to show to faculty members I want to share a couple resources in the chat. One is the marginal syllabus project. This again was the effort of Remy Collier. And the marginal syllabus was this like open teacher professional development opportunity where teachers could annotate articles together about pedagogy and knowing about the marginal syllabus was really helpful for me to be able to like to start educators annotating articles about teaching. So that was actually really helpful for me to kind of raise awareness about hypothesis, because in workshops. It's hard. I don't want to show live examples of articles that have been annotated within noodle within a course for privacy reasons so just having that in your back pocket might be really helpful for raising awareness about hypothesis. The annotation pain looks exactly the same whether you're annotating within on the open web or within your LMS so I just wanted to that that was a powerful tool and then one other resource and this again I don't know when the last time this was updated but a couple years ago this hypothesis is teacher resource guide was also really helpful and actually Robin I think that that guide actually referenced some of your digital your anthology assignment so that resource is also really helpful because there are examples of annotation assignments and the things that were annotated as a result of that assignment so those two things were really helpful for me to raise awareness about why hypothesis is a good investment. That's great stuff. I am going to back us up into a kind of a conceptual question now. And this is informed. Some of you know Joshua Eiler who wrote that great book how humans learn. There's a whole chapter in there about social learning like the social dimensions of learning that I learned a lot from. So, there's the sort of learning science aspect and then there's you guys like people on the ground in practice. So the question I want to ask is, why do you think social annotation, as opposed to just annotation, right because we used to all do that alone in our books. What is it about social annotation that really gets your students learning. And you know that gets to things beyond annotation to just collaborative learning in general. But I'm wondering if I don't know Maritaz do you want to start us off with that. Sure. Yeah. The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear like the social part of annotating is the, the building of a community of learners, and how important that is to maintain throughout the weeks of our classes. And, you know, not just having it be something that we established but that it is maintained. And when, when students feel like they belong to a community and that they're part of a place or a space where trust is established, then they're going to open up and they're going to learn. They're going to be receptive to learning more than if they were in a space where they didn't feel like they belonged or they weren't included or where they didn't trust the people there. So I think it's just it's fundamental. It needs to be there before the learning even happens. And can I ask a probing follow up to that Maritaz and then I'll ask the rest of you to jump in on this as well except for Christine who apparently I've lost the connection speaking of connection and social learning we have lost connection I think with Christine. But Maritaz I'm wondering if, and this is a question from the from the audience as well. Do you see any challenges or disadvantages to that collaborative and social approach to learning, either in social annotation or in general in your classroom. Maybe it's maybe it's no. No, I can't think of a disadvantage.  So no, I don't think there's any disadvantage. And it seems fair. Others want to weigh in on the benefits and or challenges of social learning Amy. I'll follow up with the disadvantage question. It came up in the last session but one thing that we we have had feedback from students is that it can be. It's overwhelming like the number of posts or the you know responses and so again this came up in the last session but I think this is a really important strategy to ensure student success is the ability to read the text without the annotations first. Go back turn annotations back on go back through the text again and make comments so that it sort of turns down the the sort of noise so that students aren't overwhelmed by that sort of social interaction or just the visuals, you know, overly stimulated kind of environment. So I think that's really important as a really successful strategy. I also wanted to mention, at least for especially for students at our institution. We frequently hear from students that that they, they're coming into higher ed, and this goes back to your comments about students, you know, feeling like they belong which is so important right. Frequently they're coming in to to our institution with and they have and they admit to having sort of an imposter syndrome where they, they don't know if they are smart enough they don't know if they belong they don't know how you know they just don't know. And one of the things that hypothesis is wonderful at doing is making transparent the learning that's happening. It makes transparent the questions that others have the confusions that others have. You know, the comments that others have it demonstrates to students that they aren't alone, they're not alone and I don't know what this means I don't know what they're even trying to say you know that make that kind of shared strife is really really important. I think in making students feel like you know they're not alone and it's going to be okay and you know and not knowing is part of the journey and ambiguity is part of the journey. And so it's sort of it helps students become scholars become become identify themselves as learners identify themselves as scholars. I think that's great. Yeah, Christina. Just a bit of a story where something I observed the fall 2020 when our use of hypothesis really went up. Something that I observed was faculty members reporting to me was students like jockeying for the thing to annotate. And then upon further reflection with the faculty member it was a poor annotation assignment, like there's the tool, but then there's the framing of like why are we using this. And I learned that this was like a stem class research articles students had to annotate like, what was it was like, what, what type of research design is being used and I was like, but that's mentioned only one time. So of course, only one student is going to be able to be the first to annotate that. So I'm just, I share that story around like, there's social norms that you have to one build and construct within your. I'm not sure if Christine is breaking up for the rest of you is that happening, or is it more of like a huge design. Yeah. Christine we are kind of losing you a little bit so I'm, I'm, it might be me I don't know. Let's see I, and I also wanted to note somebody in the chat had made a really good point. It's now the chat's going crazy so it's way back there but it was also about privacy.  But even so that can be difficult for some students, but certainly when you get out onto the web. There's lots of challenges if you're using hypothesis outside of the LMS and I think I can say, you know best practices certainly to make sure you as an instructor know about internet privacy. And if you don't, then don't, don't go in the web with your students, you know until you take a semester or two to learn, and then always to honor your students agency about what they share and how they share and when they share. So in that case, another sort of UDL guideline right is to offer multiple ways to reach multiple pathways for reaching learning outcomes so I could imagine especially with social annotation in public. Some students who really would not want to participate with that for real in that for really good reasons so I think the privacy conversation is one we have to talk about with all of the technologies that use connected learning so it's a great point. We don't have too much time left so I thought I would ask one final question and maybe ask each of you to jump in maybe starting with with Dana if you want. But I'm curious, when you think about social annotation. What are the pedagogical values that this speaks to again sort of getting away from the idea that it's just fun to use like a new tool because for the most parts really not but we're all in air meet now it's not that fun to use a new tool. So beyond that, what are the values that make you think that that this is really worthwhile that connect on a deeper level to what you think is important about education so let's start with with Dana. I think the value that really resonates with me in particular thinking about my own learning as a student would be the, the active learning component that comes with hypothesis. I wasn't one that would I read things in class but I wasn't one to ever annotate prior to learning about hypothesis. And sometimes if I'm not making notes on things, I'll lose it, even if I reread it even if I come back to it again. Hypothesis and just annotation in general really helps me retain that knowledge. So it's much, much more lifelong learning in that sense. And I think that's also reflected with the students. Amy, I was looking for my new button to I think in, in my opinion, the value that it really connects with is equity. And this really is in line with our open educational resources, how this all got started and how this is really integrated in our campus. Not only being able to give students access to materials, but give them tools that they can leverage those materials, learn those materials in new way, in new ways, connect with peers. And I think that I think equity would be my big takeaway for that the biggest value that it has, at least for our institution. And I'm going to ask Mary tells to have the last word Christine is is going to type in the chat because she's still having some Wi-Fi issues so go ahead, Narita. I would say an important value would be inclusion, and it kind of ties to, you know, what Dana and Amy have already said about equity and active learning. You know, in the, when you're in a on campus classroom you have such limited time, only a few students get to contribute to the discussion but with a tool like hypothesis. And all students can participate students from all different backgrounds students with disabilities, quiet or shy students who probably would not have said anything in the classroom. It includes them in the learning conversation. That's great. We did have a request I don't know if it was in the chat or the Q&A for presenters to share their slides. So if you do have a method of doing that, I encourage it. I don't know if we can, if we can find you all after we leave air meets but I'm sure they'll put things in the chat if they have them accessible that way. Otherwise, it's the hypothesis folks. Yes, I'm getting a private message we can send them out with the recording. So that would be great if you don't mind sharing those slides there was lots of great stuff. I have also been asked to plug the, I guess you want to say 2pm. I don't know why that makes sense because it's quarter to five over here where I am. And I'm sure you guys are all over the world but 2pm for those of you who are on West Coast time. 2pm Pacific Jeremy is going to be giving some, some closing remarks and we hope that you will stick around for that 5pm Eastern. Again, Jeremy is where I got this t-shirt guys. So I encourage you to listen to him and also just be super nice to him when you see him out at a conference because he's got swag, and he will send it your way. I really want to thank these folks. The thing I love most about hypothesis. It's not super fancy. It's just trying to connect people, and it's trying to connect people in the spaces that we know are important, right, the books, the texts, the ideas, the work, right, there's nothing fancy about it. I just suggest that if you connect people, and you connect ideas and you put it all together, you can have really rich educational experiences so I think talking about hypothesis with people who are actually like doing teaching and learning is just one of the most fun things so Thank you all for being here and Wendy in the background there I thank you for putting all of this together. And I guess you will go to the lounge and to Jeremy. Oh, I think I don't know even though I'm still here but anyway, my connection may be interrupted that's good timing. You're good. Bye everybody and we'll see at the closing remarks. Thank you.