remember that they do like a Yeah, the droidekis roll up and which I'd need to think about it. But if there is an instance where jedi could have used that Oh, yeah, like like people always highlight obi one could have used it to catch up with quaggon in The finale There's obviously the argument, but he was very tired It would be like, yeah, I know but it just it seems really unnecessary to have the speedy run Because it doesn't really do much. It's almost like it was an editing thing to just get them Like a poor editing done for coolness.  Why are we talking about this? It's like The whether or not the prequels Uh contradicted. It's like we're talking about whether or not the sequels do So even if the prequels did or did not contradict that doesn't change whether or not whatever Yeah, and to assist my point Um In episode two you have anakin eating with padme and he floats the fruit into his hand And he says obi one wouldn't like be doing this like that would be like a flippant Use of the force that probably isn't necessary. It's done to maybe show off. Yeah, you know But in combat that would be completely different story Across the galaxy they use their force I mean it it makes even more sense that in the context of the prequels Jedi who are the protectors of peace who had a martial role to fulfill would use this obvious power For that purpose it is appropriate that in the prequels the jedi use so much force powers It makes sense in the universe that they're in in the setting that they're in it. It just it just makes sense And although you could make the argument that the force makes sense in the prequels It does seem cartoonish and definitely detracts from the charm It seems cartoonish it detracts from the charm both of those things would be subjective Unless you can actually get some more definitive language because if it seems cartoonish to you What am I gonna do like okay? Yeah, I mean it's you can't use the force in combat Like I gotta be honest because it looks too cartoonish whenever tRO is going to agree with you rags You'll find the most distant way of agreeing with you possible Yeah, man, that's I mean do you think that they honestly would be telling there Here's your labor easy laser support it cuts through anything except by the lasers and it protects your life But the force You can't use that in a fight for your life or to save other people because it might look cartoonish. Yeah I just don't get it. It's it doesn't hold up at all And yeah, so so so just said layers flying was cartoonish.  It's a joke. It's hyperbolic. It's like All rags are said is it it would make sense for luke to attack storm troopers and fly around an x-wing I'm glad I haven't watched my video in months because I get to hear the joke over again It's like I forgot about it Yeah, that that makes way more sense. I I totally agree. That would total sense once again. I see both sides I want to make more sense I see both sides really tiaro. I see I see what's up. But which one makes more sense Murdering his best friend's son while he slept. Yeah, that makes way more sense. I totally agree. That would total sense once again I see both sides. I want to sound indifferent But I definitely didn't want a completely buoyant x-wing luke either even in light of the original art I'm talking about what you want. We're talking about what makes sense. God damn it It makes total sense for luke to fight storm troopers and fly in an x-wing That's like his thing. I'm not saying This is the thing you haven't said that that's what you want. You've said that's what makes sense And when you haven't said that's what the not what it's just like why are you changing the conversation rags hasn't said Oh, let's discuss what everybody wants out of this film Just like it's just about being in character Has he forgotten that luke is like an established character?   Could what yoda have done in the prequels have been done good if they had a better director slash writer? It's like so many questions and he just throws it all out. He's just like nah luke doing that too much like yoda doing that okay Such substantive arguments man, it's like I thought It was like I think most people after watching the last jedi would be like hell. Yeah, I don't have a cool bad ass luke Geez no that's offensive Just a changing of the character level with new context is like yoda in the prequels with that It would have seemed more out of character. He's like it's like yoda in the prequels with it. It's like a picture of ray It's like uh, why did I have a hair? And then back to luke, but um It's gonna be an overall point about luke. I think New context is like yoda in the prequels with that it would have seemed more out of character for his presented age and maturity I think it's a tough job to reimagine It would have seemed out of character. I love that he has to keep saying that instead of actually It is definitively out of character in the film or it would have seemed to to maybe have done the other thing It's like I'll take seams over is It's like just and I end the point about it wouldn't be right because he's old No, man. Yeah, we've we've heard that many times from the not so great debate. We're just like make an argument without saying He's old. Okay. Well, he's old Yeah, man, stop Invent a character and although I agree. I don't really like the luke we had I can't say I would have preferred a energetic youthful luke because age is Necessarily energetic And you don't have to prefer it rags is talking about what's consistent.  Yeah, that's what he could have done. It's like bombastic and the next one And then and then it's the false dichotomy as well. It's like we could have had anything in between could have had luke who's just a stoic You know commander of sorts And he's he's trying to get the best thing done with the situation at hand instead of being like I want to go to my island and die like, oh That sounds okay Not necessarily To what we got but I think using an old arc to lend expectation to a new one is Objectional as well so I can see why I actually took issue with it. So no it's not dishonest to compare the two This discussion comes back to I actually calling this so my pauses are taking ages to come through now. It's kind of weird Uh not objectionable to compare the two. I'm not even sure that What did you say it was objectionable to compare the two rather than just pointing out that It's not out of character for luke to kill stormtroopers I think that's all I said. We don't even know because he's just telling us that yeah God My way of editing is mean is here and better right to disagree characters Yeah, I got like I got like a five second delay on the pause play button right now Oh, then I think my interest actually like tis me up a bit and hopefully it gets better behaving Unbelievable in established ways than a universe that makes sense for to have them doing the things that they're doing Is not useless fan service, but nothing particularly newest stated here This is nothing more than a fundamental disagreement yielding a further disagreement Then it is badly pointed out by IHE that hamill expressed a changing of mind on the project before sharing the context This rags them retorts that a statement like this is outweighed by all the foot is shown And then assumes hamill's intentions that he's trying to keep the peace Yeah, guys, he made a twitter post that totally has far more meaning and weight than the things he said to his audience This is the problem with the decontextualized interviews that have been shown they present Well, yeah, the interviews that you didn't play The interviews that you had in your video tRO that were edited so fast.  So why even bother? It's just like There this is insane coming from him talking about how the interviews are out of context and he played them Sped up so fast.  I'm really tired of the no context arguments as well it's like Mark Hamill makes definitive statements that don't require a context to improve or deprove what he means by them because he's very Clear the jedi do not do what they do in this film. Luke would not do what he does in this film It's like simple and then you go, whoa, what about the context where he says he likes the film It's like that doesn't change what he just said I mean, I am shocked that people would be like, oh, yeah, Hamill likes what they do It's like no, dude, that's insane Such a sultry atmosphere of a miserable mark Hamill with his heart to forget how Anticipative he clearly was of the film throughout multiple interviews Even in a lot of the interviews that he talks about creative differences. He does not seem to learn, you know, I was gonna And yeah, he doesn't like show clips of him being really excited about the film He just says that that's a thing that happens Don't show all those clips I had in my video of the thing that you said he wasn't doing That might make your point seem a little wrong, wouldn't it? Can't be having that one team is claiming There's there's a lack of context and they show no clips another team is claiming The the other person lacks context and they show clips It's like which one am I gonna believe more probably the one that shows clips to support their arguments Tends to be a bit better personally But I just can't really stand to see mark hamill destroyed and sad on the inside Personally, I find this constant moral hammering of mark hamill quotes to be pretty tiring moral Because both mollard and rags try to argue when mark hamill is lying And they're standing when mark hamill is lying Show me a clip where I said mark hamill was lying You piece of shit. Yeah I had never said mark hamill lied Paul saying that mark hamill is lying Because I know what he's referring to it's gonna be the when people say mark hamill's positive about the film that we said No, that's a lie. I never said that was a lie I love how he says it that way by the way rags where he goes lying because he knows we didn't say that He's saying it. Yeah, I was like, are you begging the question? Are you trying to lead? You know the audience somewhere But again, like this is not shocking coming from quinton. This is just standard Standard for this seems to be based entirely around when he does or does not agree with them. What when he says something Yeah, it was only I didn't show clips of mark saying the things that Disagree with what I think he was only things that he he agrees with that agrees with me It's not like in my videos I actually said that mark has been positive about the film and that it's likely because he wants to try and die Down the actual toxic discussions It's not like that's the thing that I have said in my fucking videos that you apparently watched quinton You said in this video that you watched them If anything, I mean it's possible Hamel was lying because his tweet goes against everything that was said by him previously But he was he could have been doing it from a good place Like he could have been like Luke could in besides those were like two different issues Just wait a way to demonize me and rags. It's like must be so much fun to just argue this way Luke can simultaneously say both of those things and there's not a lie Right. He can call for unity and he could say that the movie Isn't bad Now he can do that He could say that he's proud of the film and everything and at the same time He can also express how he doesn't like the way his character was done Those are not contradictory things and as you can hear right now me and rags are happy to accept that Luke mark hamel thinks the film is good. That is fine So it's absolutely okay. I think the film is good Yeah, but it is odd if he's depending on what mark said It would be strange considering all of his behavior prior to that was the thing if you were to ask him maybe he did lie and or about his feelings in order to Be unified to get that's the other thing who knows if he actually lied to start to the You know like it's possible It depends on what was actually said Like this is such a bizarre point because uh The maybe maybe he was lying for a good cause Also my again, it's like showing out. Give me one second. I'm gonna try and see what quiet there. I can't hear you I'm gonna try and see if I can Make my internet a bit better. Hang on Yeah This is like a on discord. It says I've got like a one bar, which is not reassuring Trying to enable my Ethernet is not working Connect you bastard The last thing I need is to actually disconnect entirely that would be bad Uh, I don't want to risk stopping the entire stream. So that'd be really annoying So I guess I'll just have to go with it. Can you hear me? Probably not Well, I can hear you and you're coming through. All right Yeah, it's like a really big delay seems to be what's happening one hour 1406 Oh, yeah, that's fine. I'm just trying to um, give me one second. I might disconnect for a little bit. All right Do you want me to go through like well, I guess I can't I can only see so many All right, I got you.  Uh, I've got no control of my free up some ram the cringe caused an overflow It's like I've got I can't I can choose between a wired connection or a wireless one and uh, Sometimes they offer different results. It's really weird. And so I'm trying to watch together I'm trying to switch them right now and it's not even letting me uh, Do anything with my internet connections, which seem to be a bit broken Not reassuring at all Yeah, because it's disconnected my wi-fi successfully, but I can still talk to you which means my internet is still connected Very very odd. I apologize for anybody who's waiting to actually have things happen while I sort this out Um It says my wi-fi is disabled and I have the option to disable it. It's like, uh Any second now I'm expecting to just go down Mr. E-fap. I don't feel so good Yeah, it's bizarre. It says even on discord. It just says I'm connecting Let's hope the stream is still up I don't hear rags anymore. Now it's probably gone down Fs, can you hear me? Oh, I can hear you now. I have no idea what I'm even connected to both my ethernet and my wi-fi are disconnected But somehow I'm talking to you All right, I guess they couldn't hear me for a while But I that's that strange connection stuff because I couldn't hear you Uh, the stream didn't go down, but apparently they couldn't hear me But we should be back. I think it went down for a few seconds. Hopefully it's back up, uh Something like that, but you're hearing me pretty quickly. So let's just hope that that's let's just carry on shall we uh 14 1405 Yeah, one. Yeah pretty much When he says something bad about the movie, well, that's him stating his opinion And we should feel bad for him and we should cut that quote out and put it in our videos. What who is this? Wait, wait, they point out that we played the same clips.  That's not my name. My name is not rag second off If you do a review on the last jedi And somebody else does a review on the last jedi And you both have footage from the last jedi Do you think that it's a legitimate criticism of both of your videos if you play the same footage?  This is one with five million views 370,000 150,000 670,000 Like these are these have millions of views on youtube Are Well, I mean the narrative here is that we only play clips that support our arguments when again I accounted for in my videos so idiots not understand that Especially at the time it was like one of the first things is not the first thing popping up for his name especially But these like these are clips that have millions and millions and millions of views Like these are really big popular clips Of course, we'll both use them. It's him saying the thing Exactly and and to to imply the again in my video. I account for the positive things that mark has said they're ignoring that and it's really bugging me But uh, you know They're talking about using specific clips to sell a narrative And it's exactly what they've done to us and we didn't even do it in the first place. This is why This video is so fundamentally bad in so many ways This is awful quinton.  Like we're just gonna go Oh, yeah, that's totally fair.  Rags is short for joseph stallin But you'd think like if we claimed that he was lying in a particular clip That would be a clip worth showing, you know You'd think but I mean they can't be fucked to show the rest of my clips really just little tiny bits Standard for this seems to be based entirely around when he does or does not agree with them When he says to make bad about the movie well, that's him stating his opinion And we should feel bad for him and we should cut that quote out and put it in our videos I mean, yeah, how did the most optimistic? Oh, I love that they're playing this as if it's some kind of revelation. Yeah, we have similar clips Yeah, these are videos on youtube that have millions of views There's like 50 different instances of him saying this stuff me and rags have drawn Many and some of them are going to be the same because how would they not be and I and I asked you for where you got some of them Exactly. Yeah, I remember you said I sent you a link. Yeah, I was like Yeah, I was like I said the interviews that you showed, you know I because I asked you if they were full interviews or just clips Because I wanted to get you know, like the full interview see what else was in those interviews And I messaged you and said can you link me to them? And I question how the hell would we even know if this is from our videos? What all you've done is play the clip out of context with rags is video and mohler's video on it And it wouldn't even matter because everybody on youtube who has a video of this clip playing Will be the exact same Because it's the same interview playing and you know what's hilarious to think Is that someone could be like have you noticed that? TRO's videos and rags and mohlers all share this one clip of Mark Hamill as if to try and sell it So that he's unhappy and then we just play this like oh look your video has the clip in it now Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah now your video has the clip in it We already know they're running an agenda here as well So it's kind of just funny the point all these things out Character in the galaxy turned into this hermit But when he says that he likes it. No, he's lying. He's trying to keep the peace. He's not being honest.  He's trying to keep the peace. He's not being honest What I said was I think he's trying to actually calm everyone down Yeah, that's it. I never said he was lying He might be he doesn't think we don't know we don't know for sure If I saw all of those clips of the way that he felt about you know the film in the movie And then he comes out and tweets something I'll be like, yeah, he's probably lying just to keep everybody together, you know But if anything, I can believe that he's like kind of a good guy It's like he goes from being very aggressively negative about the film's choices And then soon after loads of interviews coming out where he's like, no, okay You know, let's let's it's just a movie. You know, it's fine Don't worry about it. Like don't need to get so angry about it. It's fine. Ryan Johnson That's that's what we do.   I can't believe I'm saying this That's Mark Hamill's opinion Quinton. That's that's that's down to him Doesn't mean that the stuff he said before didn't happen But our opinion is above his so Our opinion he's just lying that that part doesn't count. Don't don't put that in the video I've had trouble accepting what he saw for loop But again, I mean, I have to say having seen the movie I was wrong. Which of those things do you think is more like what Hamill the actual interview on that? So I I can't I Yeah, as far as wasn't the actual interview Yeah, as if like we could have just done the exact same thing to TRO We could have said see played that clip out of context. Let me show you the actual interview and then you play our clip Yeah, and it's like oh, so what you're arguing is that me and rag should have played the entire interview in our videos Very strange, but we're not gonna do that. We're trying to prove that luke disapproved of uh, that mark disapproved of luke's Character choices we show the clip in which he says it we move on Do you have a problem with that? It's like basic journalism Yeah, and right now here's the thing. I'm not ready to take kwinton at his word. No, yeah when he plays a clip that doesn't have Complete full in total context before what mark is saying here Like I'm I can't I can't do that anymore with most people I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I can't that's the thing I cannot do that with kwinton I am perfectly ready to You know accept that he lied about things as he's done in the past And you can tell as well you can't trust kwinton just the tone of like and the delivery of what mark is saying. It's very like Okay, but I don't I don't hate like it's it's not it's not as bad as I just made it sound You know, why would you have to say it like that? Yeah, he's he's clearly straddling the line between what he feels and what Go away. I'm no caller and he's and mark is very aware of that his words go far So he's always trying to be very careful as a fight to go Where his words are going? And you know someone's saying that I put the tweet saying he liked it.  Yeah, neither are you kwinton. Yeah So That's the end of that composition. You're doing the thing that you're accusing us of doing again Like no, that's a huge surprise They cannot claim that they're inside of his mind Uh, do you remember claiming you were inside mark hamill's mind rags? No, I just I just make inferences based off of all the information I have at my disposal I I remember the opening of my videos. I said, um, I've been inside mark hamill's mind I I shrunk myself down and looked at everything he feels and thinks So, uh Yeah, thank you for bringing that up kwinton though I think it would have been better to show the clip of me saying it just Putting it out there as a suggestion for next time Because they are not I do not accept them trying to sit around and cherry pick which mark hamill quotes count And which ones do not yeah, we didn't say that so fuck you all this emotional mark hamill content has escalated to the point Where it is reasonable to read mark hamill's mind and state his intentions like we know them better than anyone else Yeah, we didn't do that.  Just dejected In sad, you know, it's funny.  It's like we played his clips It's like, I just can't you look at the clip? This is again, this is when it comes to the right opinion This is why maybe he didn't play those clips Like I notice no notice that so far.  Yeah, like again for the chat The most insidious things that are said about me and rags always have no clip to follow It's like, oh, yeah, they are this and they say this I'm not going to show you a clip of that because it's just clear that that's the case like uh-huh Very glad like what's the biggest thing we've put against quinton in this entire stream And both streams is the fact that he completely repurposed a quote from rags to make him say something he didn't and we proved it We didn't put that as that we played the clip from rags because I did it on the stream Obviously, I don't know if rags heard that but he would have seen it as well It's just them The very big difference between doing research and showing you're working And you know what that does it makes you have long videos, you know That's something that happens when you try and prove your points Not saying That you can't have a short video that proves points and not saying that you can't have long videos that don't prove points I'm saying that it's very lame to uh take two hours to make this video and not even include The most damning quotes you have to make them up is Where i'm coming from Just cherry picking Because of these compilations if the twitter post follows the interviews and yes, his feelings may have changed and you have no reason to assume We do We're just going by we're going by what he has said And I will put I will I will every day I'll put Actual live interviews of him with his face and his tone and his expression The words he says that come out of his mouth above A twitter post I'll do that any day of the week And yeah, they've spent it so long on this point when it's just wrong from the base about what we did so It may as well skip past it otherwise regards of how much you'd like to hypothesize that he's trying to keep the peace It is just well, you know what tRO is just our opinion then isn't it?  They can't be inside is my hypothesis in the interviews Oh, yeah, they'll know exactly what we're thinking but we can't know what mark's thinking. Oh boy Where mark hamill says he still hasn't fully accepted the character He then goes on to say that he believes ryan johnson was the best man for the job He's also gone on to say that if the film is bad, that's ryan johnson's fault How about we play that clip? Here's the thing man, if you say two things back to back that are inherently contradictory It's just one of them's just not going to be true That's the thing and maybe maybe you don't realize it at the time when you say it That doesn't mean that you're saying these things in malafides, you know, but that's just the way it is I mean feelings don't matter in that scenario It was him being truthful and the next is just him trying to keep the peace You can't just pick and choose what parts of mark hamill are being honest to suit your agenda I actually then play the clips and we're hypothesis with the point that also Sorry, the pause delayed as fuck for me. Um Yeah, like it just refrained from showing us a clip where we say he's lying or that he's being honest Just keeps stop doing that so we can't actually account for what we've actually said Just keeps saying that's what we said You're inside our mind tiaro It is or not writers or directors necessarily creative conflict between actors and directors is incredibly common But your job as an actor is to fulfill the director's vision not the other way around ranks them response That's not even who cares when that's not even the point It's not like if mark's opinion if mark hamill says the film is bad That doesn't make the film bad Of course, that's just true But is it not interesting the guy who's connected to luke skywalker the closest the guy who actually plays him Has said that it's a complete betrayal of his character. Do you do not think that's interesting to think about? It's not proof that the film is bad It's a very interesting piece of information Yeah, it's certainly Yeah, it's certainly worth, you know, worth thinking about in great detail Like why would you think that and then you'd be like, wow, that's that's pretty big of an actor to openly say that in interviews like he must be He must have felt pretty uh emotional about that Yeah, he was pretty convinced Shit and was at odds with the established lore of the universe and the characters that had experienced and earned their arcs prior Neither of these statements really contradict each other. They're both valid in their own way Where more dispute comes into play is where I hate everything then suggests that the fact that disney was willing to hand Their biggest franchise over to one guy who has never directed anything close to the scale before is commendable Rags counters this by suggesting that it was wildly Irresponsible both of these points have merit There is a wholesome appeal to content not churned out by studios with suits and often it can have more heart But it also means the scope for failure is a lot more wild and there's a lot less control and accounting for creative decisions Rags returns. I mean and looking back in hindsight.  Well, that's just the thing, isn't it? The force awakens for all of its flaws did something really well and that was set up a potential amazing sequel It really depends on whether you think the ideas that jj abrams presented Do you disagree with that? No, uh, literally get the greatest writer in the world and they can work with what jj provided as a base. Yeah I'm kind of asking to ro here like out you know out in the aether. I'm just like is that something that really you think is I don't really controversial enough to I don't love his obsession with the mystery box There's more to do with the fact that jj doesn't know how to pay off He knows how to set up because it doesn't take much to set up. That's what I hear about him all the time Yeah, and that's the thing so i'm happy to throw jj at the beginning I wouldn't have him on my project at all to be honest. There's other things I have issues with but You could have had a great the last jedi that was a follow-up to the force awakens Were workable enough to condense into the next director storyline The best analogy that I can think of is that it's like abrams building a framework for the next movie But if the next director comes along with a different idea then the framework may have to be adjusted with certain parts Yeah, well, that's not his prerogative.   Yeah, you may as well just say, oh, this is a spin-off movie called star wars luke is a coward Because this is the project i'm running with And watch how many people want to go see that out of all the spin-offs you can make Geez Not now whether that's on abrams or not is completely subjective Hopefully this was caution for the studio to think it's not subjective Think about what they set up in their film before they hand it over This discussion is followed through to specific examples like snow And though I do concur that johnson should take the blame for not exploring snow and ray's parents at all having two No, no, ray's parents were done That part of the movie was finished. It was pretty much done. Yeah, we didn't we didn't mean it was done We the problem is um with snoke. Anyway, like I always the big problem with snoke is that he makes everything happen in this Sequel trilogy. He's the big connecting force between the originals and the new ones. It's like snoke Uh turned kylo. He brought the first order back and he basically crushed the republics like, okay, so who is he? Where did he come from?  I'm curious It was a vast concepts would have been a lot to work into a script though I did feel snoke especially could have used more background and frankly I think a lot of the audience for these films didn't care about these things Where do we begin with that statement? Oh Okay, I am curious how you have reached that conclusion. Yeah. What's uh, what's your criteria there quentin? Point out by both moller and rags There are scenes in both sequel trilogy movies discussing how the lineage of ray doesn't matter and as for snoke Who cared about holy shit? Really? Who cared about snoke?  But uh, man, I cared Who cares about this incredible? That are incredibly important Central character to the plot of the trilogy. Who cares who cares about Literally what explains why the sequels even take place Who cared who cares you're right quentin who cares who cares I've seen a lot of reviews where people said that smell because no that's a different thing That's a totally different. Yeah, besides whose fault is that to say it's a boring character. It's like, uh And if anything that's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, they wrote him to be boring So then people didn't care because he was boring He's important Arguably even in the original trilogy Darth Vader was the one that everyone cared about and the emperor was just sort of a generic Slightly more evil baddie that Darth Vader we had palpatine's history He was in control of the empire the empire is an established government that essentially lords over the galaxy We the stakes are set and then palpatine's destroyed and yet the first order still exists and there's a new palpatine It's like what where did that come from? Well, yeah, now that everything's been set up and established. We're like, oh People always where we are now is different than where we used to be people always relate it to how palpatine is the same of Snoke which for one thanks to the prequels you can't say that so Yes, give it up and two, uh, we didn't have any information before episode four So we didn't know we didn't need to know how palpatine got to where he is We just need to be told that's how it works But when you make a sequel to his seven fall and destruction of the just say now everything's the same That doesn't make any fucking sense It's the idea as well that you don't need a history and a character because they're boring I just don't know what you think you're arguing at that point in terms of a positive quality It's like who needs the good stuff when you don't even want words It just says words thoughts Sort of it's like who coherent ideas who needs them God quentin stellar at this. He was like obsessed with responding to my videos Like could you imagine how bad it would have been if he had? Oh, geez Later could kill so that he could be avenged and suddenly be a good guy No one really cared about the emperor before the prequels. He was just we have the prequels Uh, do I need to ask who got who in chat cared about palpatine before the prequels?  Stop saying these sentences as if they're true. This is exactly what they say that we do Christ sake you're gonna what what are you doing quentin? Let's let's just give him the same Attitude that tiaro gives us rags Hey, quentin.  Is that what you've done? Let's do let's do better. Let's say let's go with him Let's go with his idea that nobody cared about palpatine. Who cares. We're talking about snook Exactly It's what about ism as well. It's so bad Let's go with the fact that nobody cared about palpatine. He was just there to be whatever fine We're not talking about palpatine from this other movie We're talking about snook From this movie and the previous movie All right Try to stay focused This what about ism does not help feeling that we were all waiting to die And there was basically no attempt to do anything other than make him look evil and kill him off And no one really expected them to do anything else In my personal opinion taking the head evil baddie and having him get killed off and replaced with kylo ren Which doesn't make sense because well, that's the most interesting thing they could have done because it leaves us at a Well, that says a lot about your fucking capacity for imagination And we didn't dispute whether or not it's interesting to kill off a leading baddie as a concept That could be very interesting.  I just I love the idea of telling the star wars community They don't really care about palpatine the same cheese No star wars. But remember remember he can get into our heads Not just individual heads, but but that of x many people. Oh, yes the god forbid Done something like this before for the first time in a long time I feel like I can confidently go into episode nine Knowing that it's going to be something that I haven't seen in a star wars movie.     What a sad Piece of advice for writers.  What would be interesting beyond there's nothing that you could have done that's interesting about snow You couldn't I mean like really Quentin before these stupid words left your fat lips You couldn't have gone online and like googled snook theory and no they're not interested all of the really neat things None of them are interested. They're all born Okay, no one you know what's interesting. I forgot to slice him in half and make him fall over and then everyone laughs at his corpse That's way better As I you exactly was as video gamer says in the chat. You couldn't have done better. So screw it. Don't Don't bother give up writers. Just don't bother writing anything good. Don't bother just he's dead No story. No nothing.  It's a part of that series Most of you guys probably know it and they did a pitch for how the last jet I should have ended and it looks like a much worse film But they included a scene where it turned out that snook was Darth Plagueis. Okay, so many people had yeah And it was done in in jest. Obviously you can see right here.  I'll take it. Yeah, snook is Darth Plagueis the wise. Let's do it I was not expecting them to do Darth Plagueis. I was not expecting them to do Jar Jar Binks I was not expecting them to do Mace Windu.   I would have been like, oh Okay I wonder what that means And it's like if it was Darth Plagueis at least he would have made said We were like, oh right. It's like, I'll I'll take it man. I'll take it And yeah, again to echo the right opinion here How it should have ended is a comedy channel. It's all done as a joke, Quinton So, you're not allowed to take them seriously. Sorry jokes can be better Jokes that are meant to be jokes can be better than the joke that you are here Well, this is the thing I think we can seriously deconstruct He she is a channel and be like, what about their ideas in the same way? You can do it with cinemas and but the fact that tiaro is stated It's like if it's a joke, you are not allowed to take it a series It's like, well, then why are you taking them so seriously on this Quinton like cool guy But yeah, I the how it should have ended for the last Jedi is actually quite fun I recommend it anybody in chat who hasn't seen it. You'd find it by typing in hi Uh, sh e the last Jedi you'll you'll get a few laughs out of it I mean in the first stream that you and I did on our channel We just started you brainstorming about stuff and we came up with a better Last Jedi than the last Jedi was and we just sat down off the cuff And we came up with something better That because it would have been so funny turning around to see the audience reaction and just hearing people go Oh god, why are they getting so close to his face? Yeah, I don't want to be close to I want to be further away making me uncomfortable Obstacles in the way who's that in his video Mahler states that they should have taken this opportunity and they could have explained it How Snoke was connected to Palpatine did Snoke rise to power once Palpatine was defeated Was he trained by Palpatine was Palpatine trained by him And the thing is that despite the fact that they're interpreted as sequels the sequel trilogy is heavily standalone Despite despite the fact that they're sequels they're not sequels But but But I don't even I don't even know what to say to that. Oh, he's amazing.  I don't know what to even say Despite the fact there's sequels. They're not sequels. They are as if The empire strikes back and return to the Jedi also standalone your twat.  Yeah, that's standalone. What insanity? What have you drank? What have you what have you done to yourself quinton? You're not making sense Shit, and the thing is that despite the fact that they're interpreted as sequels the sequel trilogy is sequels They're interpretive as sequels It's like episode one two three four five six seven eight nine that part of it is irrelevant They're interpreted. Yeah, just because it's episode seven and then it's episode eight You might interpret that as a sequel I can't with the same characters that occur chronologically after the previous one with the Tiro, did you watch this when you like put this together and you thought yeah, that makes sense Interpreted as sequels Yeah, no shit the movie without having rewatched all six of the original movies alongside the holiday special So to say that the movie needs to stop and pander to and reference the uh So to explain your own stakes and to connect yourself with the previous film. That is too panda Yeah, what's that this about pandering?  What if you think about it? Each episode is standalone. They're not a sequel quinter. They're separate episodes two They just happen to occur in the same universe or the same characters chronologically directly following Do you have any characters any representation of the past history any any lore or story? Or anything in episode two of game of thrones would be to panda to the people who liked episode one.  Could you imagine trying to write with these standards? You should be like I'm just gonna vomit on the page and see what people think It's like and so it's like It's like if the next movie starts off with them leaving crate. Is that pandering? Does he know what numbers are like when you have one the next one is two The next one is three. You don't go one seven eight sixteen that you could you could interpret it that way Interpret it just because the numbers come after each other.   Just don't know anything about star wars I love as well by the way that he's appealing to the idea That we shouldn't account for the previous films because most people will have forgotten them Like well, why what what is the point of having any content in them?  Here you have star trek episodes that harken back to previous star trek episodes from different series Do you think when they're true to their own story and lore? They take that into account that yeah Not everybody is going to remember this character from this episode of this season of this show that aired 10 years ago But it's still part of the lore and we have to be faithful to it Harry potter the deathly hallows pot to stand to load fill Does it make any sense because most of the audience or at least like half of the audience Isn't going to know what you're talking about That's the thing.  If only there was a way for audiences to discover things along with characters in the yeah Only there was a way what you're witnessing here folks Is quinton trying to wrap his brain around the idea that we learn about anything to do with star wars from any source other than rey He doesn't understand that that's possible This is a picture of quinton trying to wrap his little brain around extremely simple writing concepts that have literally existed for hundreds of years God forbid like why would rey talk about snokes?  Yeah, what what is he talking about? Why is he fighting the jelly mat again? Ray can be used as the conduit for the reason why it's being explained Just like harry potter is uh his grown up.   So it's completely fair for him to have explained who doth pelagos was if that was the case And he's not even from the prequel trilogy, you know, what i'm trying to say here Is like there's so many ways you can write it And you're just like no no way nope, nope, nope, nope, nope Even though as someone pointed out in chat as well anakin tins up in episode six of the ot if you remember in the remastered versions was like, uh, uh Maybe these films are connected and they're not stand alone. Oh, no Oh, no could be interpreted that episode six is a sequel to episode five You could interpret that episode six is the sixth episode That's up to you to interpret i'll stop and be like uh palpatine was was my cousin Actually, isn't that a big reveal? I actually don't know. Yeah, that would have been something He just goes like the worst possible delivery to make it sound like it's bad You could have Palpatine and snoke exist together and they are aware of each other But they have different views of the force or they have different Views on how to govern a system or what to do So snoke Breaks off from the empire and goes out into a sector of space with the first order Or whatever you just all you got to do Is just think about it for a little bit brainstorm come up with ideas Right. Yeah, you know, just sit down and think about it. What do you know?  I killed him It's like that's the same idea, but executed horribly. We could do it to you kwinton You know, you can you can take our our preference or idea or you know, we haven't even said we want it to be Darth Plague as we're saying that It could be You know and see what we do with that and then he's like, oh, yeah, they'll just go Oh, he's my cousin lol and that's the scene and it's like, yeah, that would be shit because why would anyone write it like that? Why would we have snoke go? Hey kylo my cousin's plague is by the way or I am plague is lol someone in chat shadow asks Did kwinton forget that ray lived in a rundown at at war? Do you forget that she lives on the planet that had the last battle between the galactic Empire and the No, no, of course, but it's just as far as the movies are considered. They want us to know that That's what yeah, that's the con that's why there's an at 80 there is what i'm saying Godman says snokes history should have been dictated by the theme of the standalone sequel to the jargar beings movie I agree. I can get behind that. Absolutely mind that and there will be standalone, you know That's why it's good And ask we're following this stating that abrams had no idea what these reveals were going to be and it's since been revealed That he had no plan for what the reveals were even going to be from the yeah Well, that's not true because it's since been revealed that he apparently had a bunch of plans that were given to ryan johnson and ryan johnson through the Imagine imagine editing this and forgetting that can't has an apostrophe in it Not to mention, dude the infamous do you remember how this went like a lot of people were like Wow, they threw jj from ideas out and then ryan johnson made a tweet where he said that um, he had no he had no such thing from uh Thinking he had no guidelines to work with and people were like, oh So jj was kind of a hack fraud. He just he just had setups with no payoffs And then fast forward probably after this video was made uh daisy ridley said in an interview That ryan johnson had a bunch of notes from jj about all the way the story threads are gonna go and he threw them out Yeah, and if it if we're taking people's words for it. I'm I'm probably gonna believe daisy I find it very hard to believe that jj created all of these setups with no idea Where they were yeah, but the fact that he spent all this time and effort And he just literally stopped all of his ideas and stopped writing everything down about characters For the last scene of this movie was like no, there's no way That's hard for me to believe and it's hard for me on top of all those arguments and the pieces of evidence Finally, I hit everything. What are you trying to say? Oh, it's okay that the last Jedi doesn't make any sense because the force awakens didn't have any guidelines It's like you telling me a no writer could make developments of setups Yeah, that's the thing even if that was true, let's assume that's true.    Do you know versus Unfathomable doubt. Do you have proof? Do you have statements? This is some bull.  What's what's this? No guy and you're like, no idea.  So, uh, he definitely and this is the thing what you said is so very, uh, Let's say inoffensive. He had ideas.  I was right.  I was right The truth is that I researched the article myself and it appears that the article about Yep, it came right from riot johnson who lied if we believe daisy ridley. Yeah Hashtag believe women There was no mapped story presented beyond tfa. You know what that's probably true In that there was no story Like there was no script I'm just going to create all these characters and write their interactions with other people and stuff But oh, I don't have any idea where it might go. Like I think of it. Um If if jj said, yes, snooker's plagueless Plagueis, uh, ray's parents, uh, obi-wan kanobi and someone else and a bunch of other things and then ryan johnson's like I don't like any of those ideas and then someone goes So did he provide you any story map out and he goes no He gave me a bunch of ideas on where the things could go, but he never gave me a mapped out story It's like how ridiculous to actually think that jj had no idea where it could go That's just that's just embarrassing though because it's just like, oh, I'm sorry tiaro You made this video before new information came out that rags was actually right on this like definitively So it says that ryan didn't receive any material about reveal No, it doesn't say he didn't receive any material says he didn't receive a mapped out story. There was no mapped story presented So even if jj had plans They never made it to ryan's yes, they did so this is something that I can either confirm or deny Then we have a very weird point about jj saving face for the company. But hey, you gotta save face for the company.  Oh god. There's no fair criticisms of the last Jedi. He hasn't heard any nope He's a prick who made a shitty movie get over it And I get it once again. I do not know where that has come from I do not see reasonable evidence that abram's of all people is in a vow of silence The burden of proof lies with rags on such I I guess we know that's true because daisy has said that and jj's not said anything on the subject all right, so If I was to try how how could I possibly prove that? How could I possibly get into the mind? Of jj abram's is like let I just talking to one from one person to another Right. Are you actually going to deny? The fact that jj abram's Did not have any idea as to where his story or characters might go Like is that actually do you think that is a reasonable thing to think? Yes, I can't prove it with absolute certainty But I think that it would be crazy of somebody to say that he had no ideas They wouldn't be Theories or they wouldn't they wouldn't be ideas about what's going on in production like a secret If they were public knowledge, you wouldn't be able to say I you know like the the disney of told uh luke to shut up or that um JJ's state silent on this subject you wouldn't be able to say these things unless they you know Like people would know them as true or there would be things that you could guess that would explain the situation like of course The disney didn't come out and say we silenced mark like how that would just be the stupidest thing they could ever do So like what i'm trying to say is like he's like you don't know these things for sure It's like how would we know them for sure when the whole premise is that the things that are meant to be kept secret Someone said rags the burden of proof is on you to prove god isn't real It's like I understand what he's saying Yes, I am making the claim that he had ideas Because I think that first there's no way to prove it. There there is no way to prove it Even if he said so he could be lying. That's the thing. This is one of those like unfalsifiable things We'd have to see a weird document with the ideas saved in 2015. I guess I mean, it's just there's no way I could But I would hope That the person that i'm talking with is reasonable enough To agree with me that the person who wrote these characters out and establish them in a universe and had them interacting with other characters And then had the actors and filmed it and went through all that editing process and spend all this time and effort to create these characters To think that he didn't have any ideas as to where they would go I think it is absolutely preposterous and I think itself it should be considered self evidently retarded I want to read this one out because I think you'll find it interesting rags uh from from kevin andrew's photo You guys are so embarrassing doing these weekly critiques of anyone with a different opinion Not even producing a rebuttal video just ganging up and nitpicking these Opinions frame by frame So this is well first of all This is a video from tiaro and quintan against rags. So if anything they teamed up on him first Uh, secondly, we've rebuttled everything that we can. What do you think we're doing if not responding to points? Like yeah, we've absolutely thrown insults But you can't say that that's anything more than about two percent of our video that we're making right now And maybe he doesn't maybe maybe you don't make content Other than crappy youtube comments. So you don't know What time and effort and works go and work goes into a video?  What do you want us to do play the entire video and then say we disagree Would that be fair? Yeah, man. I mean, I think we're being very fair doing this live Then the fundamental, uh ending of this response to this comment in the chat is What do you think tiaro and quintan did if not what you're accusing us of doing? Yes, someone said now every time I hear the argument there is no way to prove if this is real or false I immediately remember monday matt it all and and Matt dillahunty too because he he's he's he's a no he's a skeptic Matheus debate guy and it's just at this point we just have to do you assume that daisy ridley was lying That's the only thing we got left now because she said it is like we have two people saying different things, right? I have more reason to believe that ryan johnson I'm not saying it with absolute certainty I'm saying that I believe it and i'm saying that it's probably true based off of How people work? Right I think it is far more likely based off of jj abram's right That he of course had an idea as to where his characters might go of course Because all he has to all he has he just needs the idea Like you tell me he never thought of it. He never once considered Well, I wonder what happens to snow. Well, he does that. He's from here. Oh, he does this and he does that and kylo Oh, well, he's from here and he doesn't yeah, but you don't know if sure He didn't get inside his head racks.  I just don't understand this like double standard and of course I hate to say this but like if you really don't like the way we're doing this Um, you don't have to watch us do it You know, it's up to you like uh, I I this has been the premise of e-fap since the beginning so Someone says I feel like rags is wrong here JJ Abrams is notorious for creating mysteries with zero plans for what their reveals would be I'm sure he had ideas for where these characters came from. Oh But oh, you say he's sure he had ideas from where these characters came from but going no bullshit I mean if he's got ideas from where they came from then shouldn't Where they're going be defined by whatever their motivation is As in his ability to portray those in a satisfying way is completely detached From whether or not he had ideas Yeah, I I I think I just think it's ridiculous for someone for a director. I'm just confused. We have daisy ridley's testimony though We we have daisy ridley's testimony. Doesn't that just end this conversation? She said the like like I'll just find the actual quote for the sake of uh the argument Daisy ridley jj script tfa ryan that should probably do it Um There you go JJ Abrams wrote drafts for star wars eight and nine says daisy daisy ridley um And daisy ridley worked with him longer than ryan johnson did Remember daisy was with him for his movie. Yeah, so this is the quote from daisy ridley Here's what I think I know jj wrote episode Uh seven as well as drafts for episode eight and nine then ryan johnson arrived and wrote tlj entirely I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy But apart from that every director writes and realizes his film in his own way So there you go daisy ridley could be lying but that seems like a really odd thing and again, this is just word You know, I guess we'll have to wait here, but ryan and daisy to have an argument with each other This is all we got left Anyway, I don't know man. It just I mean this is I mean we're probably spending too much time on this point But I think the idea that he didn't have any idea as to where his characters would go is ridiculous Well, I mean this point would be over if like I said, I'm just confused that the daisy ridley thing isn't enough But we also got The accusation of nitpicking dun dun dun dun, which I mean no we're finished as we said earlier as well We're not even sure of what an individual person means by nitpicking is what we said invalid or is it just irrelevant? Or something else who knows how's that tweet doing you put out by the way?  I personally think nitpicking is analyzing little mistakes that can are be present But can affect the overall product Intentionally going after minor unimportant details usually when someone can't find any legitimate criticisms of Nitpick is something that can easily be overlooked as it isn't paramount to a product or a service Not to dismiss or downplay their flaw, but it is something that I can reasonably accept and still like an observation as a flaw Um A flaw that doesn't affect the overall plot that is a minor error Valid in a sense, but not as important like actual problems or plot holes Uh, a nit is a young louse. Uh, it comes from picking nits off of someone one by one so here you go, um That's uh, you can pick my nits any days like yeah, it's uh It's half dependent on what people even mean by before we can even respond to it. That's why it's uh, it takes a while Sometimes it picks a strong word. I prefer extreme attention to detail small, um A lot of people are comparing the picks to the bigger picture um Nick mix me is pointing out minor details that don't make the final product any less great. However, I don't feel like it is valid um making a big deal of time detail or tiny details pointing out something small that doesn't affect the overall movie so Criticism that although valid does not itself cause a massive issue. That's kind of how I I see it general consensus It's like you've pointed out something that is you know, contradictory or inaccurate or whatever, but it didn't really affect anything. Anyway Um, so anyway She says that there's a side plot in like a casino Which most people agree is a bit clumsy and takes up far too much time in an already long movie Rags then concurs and says yeah, that was a train wreck of a subplot They would have been far better ditching it and spending that time on something far far more valuable like, you know The events that happened between episode four and episode seven Now this one principle isn't a bad point Although it could be argued that 11 minutes of a film would have been hard to fill with exposition No, uh, the entire history of lord of the rings to set up the film is done in I think eight minutes at the beginning of the film Yeah, man, 11 minutes is a long time. You can get a lot done in 11 minutes Yes, you can You design although it definitely spent it even if they would have spent 11 minutes on how luke became luke Yeah, that would have been nice instead. They chose to have one flashback three times the change slightly To dictate whether or not he was malicious or whether or not he was confused Been filled with something more worthwhile. This is something that I actually subsequently brings up really isn't that bad And it's actually quite a short segment of the movie 11 minutes is like, uh, we could ignore the 11 minutes of crap. Can't we it's like I hate everything that is uh Not a fun argument to be making for the quality of the film. I'm just saying it. It's only 7% of the entire movie. Um That's a lot. That's 11 minutes I mean, yeah, there's no denying that's you could you could you could do a lot in 11 minutes To be comparatively to the rest of it and rank strangely responds by saying that so who cares if it's only 7% of the movie That's a lot not really from my point of view. I don't know about other people But to me 11 minutes is not much No, well, okay. So what we're gonna do define whether or not a lot or a little is what what they are They're playing with weasel words here a lot a little. I mean, it's let's let's make it simple You said the you could use it for exposition. He said that's not much time to do it The lord rings does it in less time. So it is a lot In comparison to what a movie can have for exposition done and done we can move on Exposition is jeez. Of course, you could do a lot more if someone said We're gonna take out 11 minutes of the worst part of a movie and replace it with something else It's like think of all the stuff you could do. There's tubers only 7% of your brain Yeah, I guess it's context, huh like I think it's silly to say that 7% isn't a lot of a film It's like what does that even mean that we could just if if there's 7% of bad We could just ignore it doesn't matter what that actual 7% is And and the fact that people thought it was longer than it actually was I mean, yeah, even that Speaks to the speaks to the scene I dare anybody to sit and stare at a wall for 11 minutes and not do anything. It won't feel very quick. Let's put it that way Yeah, my dad who really liked the last Jedi.  Oh, yes Been to have stated how the scenes themselves totally cut apart important interaction between luke and rey So the 11 minutes had more impact than originally let on I achieve then says there's cheesy and awkward dialogue at points But star wars has always had that so that's not really a deal breaker for me Station to pick up some power converters. Right. Why is that goofy line? Why is that goofy? He was gonna go to the tashi station to pick up power converters. It's like uh, goofy And uh, again, do we even bother mentioning the whole what about is it like it's goofy lines the other one? So it's not goofy the way I guess I still is goofy. Oh, it doesn't matter Oh, yeah, also is as your mother Said uh, ps a seven percent of a large number is also large very correct very true Accident interject I need to use the luke so I'll be right back fair enough I will actually get around to reading some super chats because I haven't done that at all this time around Npc checking in is that how it works? Well, I've heard of the npc meme. I'm not 100 up to speed on it Just yet. Uh doth armor. Um change the chat to live it defaults to top chat Uh Oh All messages available some messages such as potential spam may not be visible Oh, I would prefer the if my mods knock out any messages that they stay knocked out. That's the job Um, what's the beef with quintan reviews? Hopefully that's answered by this video Uh, is this going to be rags or more? I love both you lads. I give you more, but I'm broke That is absolutely fine lordos in 10 euros is actually quite a lot as well. So thank you very much And we always appreciate just watching anyway Um talking with us about all of it any opinion on the treatment of legends in my opinion It's almost an insult to fans when you make good writing stories and characters non canonical and replace them with elements Replace them and elements with such poor counterfeits Um, I don't know enough about legends, but I know that very many people are very pissed off with it and at first it's like If you have something good replace the good thing then it's okay-ish It's not exactly preferable, but if you have something awful replace the good, it's like Oh Is it bad that I want a Michael Bay Star Wars? I would watch it. Why not right give it a shot In my opinion sucks if you want Gundam watch either war in the pocket the eighth ms team or Gundam the origin Very well.  I'm assuming that was supposed to be sorry Uh, do you believe some criticisms can be nitpicks? Absolutely my definition of a nitpick is something that's valid but mostly irrelevant Obviously it seems to change between people and I'm not sure if this is a defined definition of it on you know Whatever dictionary um r&m confirmed for self-aware Putin bots Dun dun dun mean means rags are Rations Not trust our opinions on things because we're simply trying to overthrow America, uh, I still don't uh I still don't understand how people can defend this heaping dumpster fire TLJ was honestly worse than skyscraper rampage the mag drastic will fall in kingdom and somehow even justice league I prefer all of those films over it. So I'm all how dare you not look like a skull on wheels unsubscribed in futile rage. I am so sorry But like we said, you can treat it as a hood ornament that that would be on the front of the car Rags red rocket is ready the virgin quentin versus the Chad Jeremy Who'd be Jeremy in that? Uh Jeremy's the name of the guy on cinema sins if that's that's what you go for Like the new avatar and we'll just rewatch your infinity wall video. It convinced me to see the movie I'm loving this epic writer response thesis of course It's it's it's wonderful to have read a response response response theory I'll say again if a script don't matter then a video of just staring at a wall for an hour would make me just Do as much as a video a film of infinity war. It's like, yeah We know there's a difference. They like to pretend that there isn't one Um, if my opinion was socialism works without knowledge of any prior events or arguments, then that's my opinion any objectively wrong one Uh Yes, I think um, I thought art was supposed to be subjective Uh, I was taught when two people look at the work of art. They get different things out of it subjectivity is important But I don't need to explain enjoyment I mean with us the thing me and me and rags are okay with subjectivity. Absolutely Tell us what tell us what I made you feel No, we well, I'm assuming rags does but like I use it in my videos when I want to tell you how I felt about something Yeah, fine. Um, just know which is which They cross your wires. They are all warp practitioners and need the stake. Oh my Luke no hobo will you be? christen ohlin for obi-wan movie spielberg Cameron and ramey for episode nine not the queer star trek guy I say open it up to everybody Just do it. Just just do it. Um, mola, please google open it up Please google coming soon episode nine improv the first second paragraphs in the article is cack They feel like there aren't any under any pressure so improv Yeah, I've heard about the episode nine is apparently gonna have a lot of improv, which is like oh, no I guess well for ghost busters.   Why did why did you try that odd? You know anything that could help the good guys Um, I hate rags too. I mean I really don't know him but hashtag. I hate everything so it's k, right?  Well, that'd be wonderful I can retire Uh in revenge of the sith Yoda sends Obi-Wan to master a new ability returning as a ghost because old friend returned quite gone But that's just the law Yeah, that that explains why there's no force ghosts in the prequels So george lucas clearly gave a shit sort of I um If I had if I got zero pennies every time quintin contradicted himself. I feel like I'd still be rich somehow You just feel like money that's worth nothing but you have so much of it. You just sell it for scrap and it tids out to get you billions Just like this video so much nothing Um, all of you feel like rugby football cricket, uh, do you like them? If so, do you support? Um, I only ever really watched rugby and it was support in wales and I've not seen the new doctor. Who am I right? Man and doge, let's get to brass tacks.  The prequels is an expanded universe of cool powers. I mean, yeah genuinely Subjectively, I like seeing force powers that are neat but seeing her fly through space. I was like, oh my that's That's awkward Like even if it was 100 fine with What we know about the force and we've seen her do it before I'd still be like, oh man, it's awkward. Please stop Uh, I love you guys.  Thank you, brandon Follow up from last week's super chat that I left. Neo is awesome I recommend it and feel free to use this money towards your steam purchase of it.  I am gonna get around to playing it. I swear to god one day, uh Time stamp for you boys in the rags video is one 10 30. Yeah, we've definitely um That'll go down in the history books now. Like unfortunately for quinter the editor add to euro Actually in episode three is it strongly implied that the force goes so not the normal become with the one with the force thing Yeah, it's some kind of like special ability you learn According to yoda, at least I think uh press wife quintons law doesn't matter. That's where the wise came from.  If not, I'd recommend you take this money and watch it I have not heard of it Admit you like hodl's beard because hodl hodl's awesome. He should have uh, he should have done the hyperspace kamikaze This music freaking sucks Yeah, I would have recommended different music or just not to hold.  I mean yay There you go. That's something for both of us.  Well Wolf will return so don't panic about that and obviously Wolf I think said he's seen this video and he was just like annoyed by it So I guess like there's a good chance where he would have just been Not really wanting to comment on it anyway, but me and rags are fucking tearing this apart with these like, uh In a way that he isn't Yeah, well besides I don't know if you guys have heard but uh, eric taxons made a a video against wolf So when wolf finally gets around to um wanting to you know, come back on e-fab. That's probably the first thing we'll cover Our force diversity. Uh, mullin rags keep it a good work Love you guys for someone who wants to get into dark souls one is the steam dark souls remastered a faithful port to play Or do I need this ps3 copy? Thanks from what I know The remaster is decent. It's just that um, it wasn't a big enough difference from the modded version of dark souls at a base So If it's your first experience go for it, uh, but I would recommend checking out some videos sort of reviewing it just to make sure Yeah, there might there might be some charm in playing the original, you know Movie bobble quintin.  It's obviously quintin, but that quintin's more personal But may overall movie bobs like Movie bobs just a horrible person Yeah, I was gonna say movie bobb probably does more damage in general like Damage to humanity versus damage to us. Here's the thing if movie bob had the infinity gauntlet like People would die Yeah, which is it's not reassuring like very seriously like people would die Uh, in regards to star wars letters, it was like I was taking a nice hot bath and they replaced it with cold Shit so many stories and games go on Yeah, I'm sorry about that and uh, it's it's something we just have to sort of accept the dizzy. We're like non-cannon. La la la la la la It's like oh Fine because they got to buy the ip guys. That's how that works But thank you all very much.  Uh, yeah, but the others they don't seem out of character Yeah, they all seem to fit to me like I I would I wish I had everything would be like this is goofy because Um instead of just saying these are goofy as hell. It's like I thought they smelled bad on the outside That's so in that anyone would say about anything that aliens if aliens were watching um a film about you know earthlings And some character said i'm gonna go to the exxon station to gas up the honda Like that wouldn't that wouldn't be it's like these humans It would just be we just we don't know what these things are.  It's like look at this now everything's fine in the last jet Okay, it's like oh, is that how that works? Okay. Yeah, it's not my opinion. Those are goofy Just objective Yes, they're in character, but you'd be hard to push to deny that they are least somewhat corny The idea of just telling someone they can't win in the midst of a lightsaber battle that they then it's not about the lightsaber fight Yeah, it's about the fact that if he dies he becomes one with the force and there's a force ghost and Darth Vader doesn't kill him that way It's not about who wins the lightsaber fight.  The latter quotes are not disputed as being corny so we can continue. What? What do you mean they're not disputed? I mean, maybe he means by you in your video, but like I would dispute the chef Rags questions why they're bad, but the rest were appropriate and in character and they built them up with personalities Why are these lines bad? But I actually never said they were bad. He even put a mini display. Oh, come on. He said they were goofy. It's not exactly a positive claim, is it? Yeah, it's like, you know rags is taught as saying that he's criticizing those lines. That's what I had everything's doing Give him some slack, please. Just a little bit of slack. Yeah, that's absolutely why it's there He just finds them goofy then I actually reference his two prequel quotes and states that he would find it ironic if why would you I think you're gonna say this in your video But the idea that you say the dialogue in the sequels isn't so bad.  No, it's because i'm so in love with you So love is blinded Yeah, like I find it pretty ironic if you love the prequels, but you're cool. What? You can't love them even if they have goofy lines in them. I'm confused now. What his point even is If there's a corny line, you can't love the film and not only that ones.  You can absolutely love the prequels and say they have goofy lines I love the prequels. They're terrible and I love them Calling out this movie for having bad dialogue rags then references the destiny video as irony Oh, we're gonna start talking about irony.  Oh, but the prequels Oh, but these movies that were made 40 years ago. Oh, but da da da da da da da Defend of them from the criticism that people are levying against it. Don't go to other movies We are not discussing if this was a valid point. It would be legitimate criticism But if we break down itch's last two main points They were that firstly he didn't mind the corny dialogue in the last jedi Mainly because that has been a recurring theme in the past films and clearly it's nothing that jolts him He wasn't trying to justify. Yeah, but rags already said like how are the other ones even goofy So that that wasn't really even by your definition of what he was trying to prove. It wasn't exactly Cohesive let's put it that way Um right in this instance. He's just stating that they've been used before in film So he didn't find its inclusion here anything bad for him. His second point is that he I'm not sure that he said that I thought it was just like people who are complaining about goofy dialogue. It's in the ot2 I don't remember him saying like I didn't mind goofy dialogue Because um, I've always liked goofy dialogue or something like that again. I could be wrong because yeah I We've got barely any context terrible. So it's impossible to remember But I think he was using the fact that it was in other films as a reason why we shouldn't have a problem with it He finds people who complain about the dialogue here, but not in the prequels to be employing double standards Now this is presupposed by the fact that the dialogue in the prequels is pretty corny But that is something that most people agree on and if we assume that then yes It could be seen as double standards He never at one point tried to defend the film through this. He accepts it and explains why he personally found it fine Some people enjoy corny lines. He's not arguing it. He's just saying he found it fine. This is the problem There isn't a disagreement. Just one person's idea of placing pretty sure He said the you can't love the prequels if you say they'll you don't accept that they have goofy lines as well Or something like that. We just covered it. You played the clip Anakin clip playing in the spaceship. Yeah, like I I don't want to go back to get the exact line But i'm pretty sure he said the You know if you claim to love the prequels you you have to accept that they have this in it, too It's just like that you say that like it's a contradiction I don't know. I need again But there was definitely a similar to disagree with there. It wasn't a hundred percent agreement. I don't I don't think so Conductive value on certain components being different to another IHE states that find a somewhat hamfisted anti one percent message kind of funny and ironic Given the context of what star wars represents somehow rags managed to get a gotcha in there And i'm certain they are thrilled that you paid to see it three times Exactly Yeah Yeah, you don't Like he even said it was ironic like yeah The rags just filled in the rest of the gaps there It's like he you have a problem with the anti capitalist message in a movie that you paid to see three times.  I have to give him kudos for that sort of level IHE then are say rhetorical Oh, yeah, that boy. Here we go. I'm confused. So I have to give kudos for that sort of level Excellent. I take it back.  What does it mean by that sort of level? he has to I don't know. Yeah, I I think he's complimenting me on yeah, I think he was too. I was just confused by the way he used Yeah, very very strange. But yeah, boy. Cool question. Yeah treating animals nicely is important and everything Was it really necessary alongside everything else this film was trying to achieve which rags then answers? No, it was not the answer is no moller goes way more indebted I do in his criticism Videos but man they packed a lot of incompetence into seven percent of this movie's screen time before IHE Subsequently answers it anyway, which I do find humor in this is one of the examples that seem to illustrate How sometimes I think rags seeks to interject a bit too much to the point where you forget the whole Sentence and the point the person may be trying to make I mean that's still better Then literally not having any of the sentences in the fucking videos. You can't even see what you're responding to Like obviously, I mean I don't mean literally. I mean he's got like 10 percent of your video in his video so we can Sometimes see what you said This is an excellent example of why my style is better than well. Yeah, I would take your style over his any day This is the thing when H. Barma guy said I took a joke of his seriously I was like I played your video so anyone would know that You know, they can go. Hey, why did moller take that so seriously? Yeah, people never have to like ask for context in my stuff because it's all there what I could have done is said Uh, H. Barma guy makes this very serious point and then I re re recant it instead of showing the clip Simple as like that's that's why I prefer this style But he's just like nah you interject and this is something that can happen Me and rags can totally respond to a point without realizing that the following point is going to Contextualize the point they just made that can happen But like we'll usually try and account for it when we follow on we go. Oh, they were saying this. Sorry And that's just you know, is that so bad? I think that's uh, I think that's a good way of doing it to be honest No, not really other than to serve those character arcs It's one character arcs rose tico definitely did not have See I want to clarify before we respond to that bit. So did you catch that hero is like rag said no, it's not uh Uh needed and then I hit everything literally follows up with saying no, it's not needed Implying that what you said was redundant But then I hit everything follows up with well except for the character arcs meaning it's not Something that he thinks shouldn't be in the film at all. He thinks it's good for the character arcs Which is now what you're responding to so that was not I didn't even I didn't even catch that the first time because I just do it as it happens But yeah, this is the thing I will outclass the right the right opinion on the levels of pedantry I've gone over this before I am extremely pedantic and so he's like he's pedanticizing you And I just counter pedanticized him if that makes any sense at all. I'm pretty sure I just made up words, but It's uh chat saying I cite the source of my videos in the description But you never have to watch the original because the originals Basically fully in my video.  You put his entire video in your response. I was like, but that's the point Yeah Um, and yeah as for the character arcs, I guess Finn learns that there are bad people in the universe I don't know what else happens there Um Oh man, that's Oh I have a character arc. She should have had her character arced like Part of a trajectory from a trebuchet. I don't know.    I don't know. Yeah, I'm walking there. I don't know a character arc represents a change A journey in the character from a to b now if you genuinely dislike that character arc Even if the person ended up worst, it's still a change. There's a point about humor with no hang on What change takes place in canto bite anyway? What change takes place in canto bite for any of the other characters? I'm confused like he said that you can't deny it because it is a change. It's like what change um They got older They literally aged by seven minutes. They they they aged Good lord. Like I I'm I'm all bored with the idea here. I'm like, what is the change? What happens to these characters? What is different about them? Like maybe I guess finne learns that there are bad people in the universe But should you surprise him because I thought he got his quote unquote change when he was on the ship With the dude remember he has that moment where he just stares and he's like, oh my god I guess but I don't know. I like what's like a character arc for an eight-year-old Well, yeah, I think that too. I think it's really sad that finne had to have the moment of there are bad people in Universe even though is another whole point in the force awakens that he's like, oh my god The team I'm on is horrible I mean, why do you think he left if he didn't know that there are bad people?  You're like, oh k Say someone said uh quite british says rose went from wanting to smash stuff to actually smashing stuff perfect arc Nailed it Yeah, you got it differences So we'll skip this bit then there's some exchange over the pork and the minions This is mostly worthless as it's a side note on ouchie's video But once again, it does demonstrates rags his tendency to interrupt before ouchie has completed the points ouchie says at least He fucking shows his points tiaro.   They're just birds rags interrupts makes a comment as that they're only there to sell toys Yeah, exactly. They're useless. They don't service the plot in any way They're meant to sell plushies to small children But do you not agree that things are more meaningful when they have a direct influence on the plot?  Uh-huh. Yes Porgs are just there to sell toys Once more before aichi completes the sentence referencing that they're there to sell toys Yeah, what's wrong with that? What's the problem? That may be true certainly, but again, they had an effect on the that makes sense tiaro rags He says the thing about the the penguin assholes. He's like, yeah, they just say they sell toys Then he's like minions aren't and you're like, well, it's like. Oh, yeah, but the ewoks is like again They're they're more than just selling toys and then tiaro thingy's like and they sell toys and you're like Yes That's that's that's what we all understand It's the here's the thing. It's the porgs lack any reason beyond selling toys Yeah, I don't Is like he says a thing and I respond to it And I would have said the if I had taken everything he said and then put everything I said afterwards It wouldn't have changed the thing I don't understand where his problem is with that. Um Yeah, not to mention, you know, like the difference like I guess we have to explain this because otherwise people might not understand So you have luke skywalker fighting vader, for example And then someone goes man I want to make some toys of that and they do and they sell and then someone else goes Hmm, maybe we should make stuff that can simultaneously be a part of the plot and sell toys and then ewoks happen and then they go Maybe we just just make stuff that can be made into toys. Who cares about the plot.    Yeah, and he does it as if you've ignored or left things out, which you don't you play the stuff as it goes And it's like there and do you want to know who does take things out? This is just a chaos Zeke says tiro has admitted rags saw the whole video then keeps acting like rags hasn't seen the video yet Yeah The boy is rags being mad about furry representation For the story forward amongst this rags also posed the question that would i actually not agree that something is more meaningful when it Is integral to the plot, but do you not agree that things are more meaningful when they have a direct influence on the plot? I don't know how i actually would respond to this unless he made a video response Which he won't but i'm sure he does agree that something is more meaningful to the well that What you think he'd agree Which means that rags was validated this entire sequence, right? What's when it has a direct effect and he wasn't trying to say it Otherwise as he said it's just a side note He wasn't trying to state. Otherwise. It was just a side note I'm pretty sure I had everything's point was that minions are worse because they affect the plot And rags has said wouldn't it be better if they affect the plot and then you said yeah He probably would agree, but that's not what his point was What? Well, what? What? What? I'm not following We're having a minute and i'm almost at the end of what i'm Gonna put up with here It's carry on reference per video is a running joke on this channel Something that I didn't even notice until a few videos ago Although I get it as I assume uninterrupted content over a certain mark might be automatically claimed And that if you were to skip over a certain part some people would accuse them of missing points It just seems sometimes the interruptions are necessary. We've already been over how it's valid. So you're just wrong on this Yeah, it's valid. It doesn't matter. I make points that he doesn't agree with It's unnecessary and excessive the idea that a star wars film can be said to be objectively without value What? What? What? We cut back to Quinton Rewind the tape We cut back to Quinton.  Go back a little bit one two seven. Let's go to five oh One twenty seven. Yeah one twenty seven fifty Oh I gotta go back even further I'll go to this timeline one two seven. I know it's a long video One two seven. There that should do it excessive the idea that a star wars film can be said to be objectively without value Because it's sold toys How little do you have to know about the history of star wars film?   Where did you get this? What is wrong with you?  This is not like remotely respectable. You just implied that me and rag said Star wars the last Jedi is without value because they're selling toys with it.  What?      I totally agree.  I'm just glad you got the exercise man. Yeah, just just punch that straw man Beat him up was consumed in the west a star wars movie selling toys does not make it soulless or capitalistic It just makes it a star wars movie.  Of course. It makes it capitalistic. I don't think that's wrong No, I don't think it's bad I'm just like yeah, it is what it is To say it's soulless. Uh depends depends. I think the porgs are soulless You know, I think the crystal the precious crystal fox boys. I think they're soulless Citizen kane doesn't have toys Yes You have like a little guy dressed in a suit like my citizen kane toy The cane from citizen kane I got the parrot from the parrot scene We're missing something really important here at some point I hate everything off-handedly states that he liked the kamikaze scene and rags responds by saying it was visually stunning But it contradicted Do you catch that he said that rags said it was visually stunning didn't he say earlier Something along the lines of like That we we said something like that nothing was stunning in the film or something. Am I remembering that wrong? Um, I can't remember but at this point. I'm gonna just give you the default point What that he's just like this is What an interesting segue though. No, yeah, that's true It's like, oh, we're gonna talk about the hyperspace jump now. I was like, oh, okay Well, that's the thing this there's no structure in this it's like Rags this film does not Have zero value because it sells toys now back to the hyperspace Wait, what?  Don't worry about it. Just, you know, it was really cool Seeing it was really awesome Yeah, it looked really really neat and it was really cool in the theater Like he didn't even try and defend it because even that is better than trying to defend the bad stuff. It's just Oh man, and I'll give it to you rags like if you don't actually argue why I wouldn't even blame you because it seems so blatant Like isn't it pretty obvious the point is we would have seen this in the other films. That's that's the point We would have seen that more in this film.  So what did they do at the beginning? Yeah, why didn't they start when they is like right when we have enough fuel to do one last hyper space jump Just kamikaze into the planes behind us Or the ships behind us figure what he was talking about again Is going to Mahler's video finding the same part and then seeing what he had to say He's fucking complaining about the fact that we have to go and find context No rags is arguing about what all you do is lack context or make lines up for us I think he's he's gonna try and say that we use very similar wording Well, he he's saying that you reference me apparently so like we have to go to my video to know what your argument is But yeah, your your video was very much a I learned a great deal from the film based on your video as many people did So there will be similarities in the ways that we um similarities in the way that we express our ideas And and this is what rags meant what I mean that brings us to a no, I said exactly what I meant No, no, he knows what exactly what I fucking meant. He knows what you're trying to get inside my head Why in all seven of the mainline episodes of star wars and rogue one up to this point Have we not seen this kind of maneuver?  And when would it have been very specific maneuver?  So you've got The the fact that he frames this As that like this is a valuable useful ship Obviously, they wouldn't be using valuable useful ships until the time when there was nothing else you could possibly ever do with it Like in the last Jedi they would at the very last second they would turn them around and hyperspace Hyperspace kamikaze they would just take pieces of junk and strap an engine to them Yeah, there's so obviously they wouldn't have these very big elaborate useful ships and then just waste them if their purpose was to This is the other problem with this rags It's that I have I think five counter arguments I present in my own video and they're all the ones that So like, uh, this is the first time they've been able to do it. Uh, the ship has to be that big The you know, there's loads of counter arguments. I bring them all up and I knock them all down I guarantee you he's not going to reference that at all Also, someone someone went back to my original video and said indeed When I talk about how they don't use force powers in that fight.  It's just malicious. It's just taken some mannequin Maybe the same reason that all other war movies do that So sparingly because it's not a bad idea. It's an amazing idea. They they destroyed like eight what it doesn't I believe it's 11 star destroyers and the supremacy. I believe that's the result which the price of one Holy ship. That's insane value. That is incredible value And that's just a ship that they were using anyway it not to mention all the other use they got at us And let's not forget rags. It's like, oh, yeah Remember in return of the jedi when several ships that are like the radice. They're called capital ships They're from the mont calamari.  So it's definitely it's the kind of thing We'd be like at this point the first order should be hyper-driving one of this star destroyers into the radice They just just empty it out.  Welcome to first order doesn't just take one of the transport ships put a droid on it As a slow boy has just highlighted by the way It's like why even why do you even have a death star at this point?  I mean like it just fucks with everything so much and even if Geez if there's so much wrong with it well once upon a time We could just say it's not a thing you can do not a thing you can do but now it's like oh it is But there's all these really complicated fan invented reasons why you can't do it in any other situation I mean the fact that quintin is gonna i'm i wonder if the right opinion is going to defend it I think you'll leave this to quintin because he doesn't know star wars very well, but we'll see That is so visually stunning so clever and so obvious It'll be the opposite of clever quintin if it counters its own fucking rules If it was obvious it wouldn't be clever generally the obvious things aren't considered the clever ones in terms of the universe That you think to yourself How has no one thought of this before? Yeah, wait, you think it's so clever that it makes sense no one thought of it To literally hyperdrive it to someone why would no one have thought of that before?  We have problems because now apparently it is it both is that isn't Like is it like well, we assume that it uh isn't in the other films because they don't do it when they should do it But now we've established thing And i'm like, oh Okay, then The fact that he's trying to defend this when it's just Oh And how long has hyperdrive existed dare I even ask lower?   How crazy is that? It's insane that he thinks that if you don't have hyperspace kamikaze, you can't have interesting space back Well, if you remember uh Uh, who who made that point? I think it was patrick williams. He said that um If we don't have holdo for no reason keeping the information from po then we don't get an interesting story That it's like oh god That's just standard for writing It's just inventing the worst reason for things imaginable or accepting a terrible reason and the idea that this is a critic who Who I and I think that every critic to some degree probably fancies. They can write things to some degree You know, they kind of go hand in hand. I would imagine Just but this lack of imagination and this this defeatist attitude Yeah That there is no possible way to have done better It's like would you have said this before rogue one came out and they Fucking use the hammer maneuver and you know, it's like See for me, right? I could I can listen out to an argument for it I know there's some people who don't like it, but when I saw that hammer maneuver in in rogue one I remember thinking to myself like, huh I guess that would work because if you disabled the ship You could then just push it into another one and the the sheer size of them probably would clash But again, if someone was like it shouldn't make sense because of x y and c I'm willing to hear the argument but as far as I know that does make sense Yeah, I would say it probably makes sense. You disable a ship if you can hit it with something and change its direction Then it essentially becomes a huge basically glorified hammer a battering ram essentially Um, but the hyperspace one No, man. Oh man. What a what a hill because we have to directly copy the first seven movies If star wars failed to reinvent if they failed to make audience reinvent also known as completely contradict yourself apparently Red con and reinvent This is grasp on to the universe in new ways if they failed to be to be interesting and new interesting You have to be contradictory to be interesting now I assist these insanely low standards that he sets for writing and again Arguing against someone who doesn't exist me and rags never said that uh You shouldn't reinvent that you shouldn't remain interesting It's like as if we would ever fucking like make these claims It's like no, we just told you to contradict rules that actually built the stakes in the previous films Joe why it was so tension-filled to see the death stop blowing everyone up in Return of the Jedi because we knew they couldn't just hype a space into it Yeah, because it was a threat you couldn't just oh, okay. I guess we'll that's that We would not have made it past episode six Or don't character is a bit as if here's thing He's like I guess he thinks in his mind that George Lucas in his three movies expanded In sorry expended every single thing that could possibly be done in the entirety of the star wars universe Yeah, it's not like it's an enormous world with amazing technology and anything else could be depicted or show Yeah It's just it's a really sad counter because it's just like just leave alone.  I would have been a good start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree rags Her character was so useless forced in a necessary that you could have swapped her for admiral Ackbar And nothing would have changed in the story But many it's not the casting that defines the character is the character themselves hold those characters Yeah, tiara don't even go there holder doesn't have a character. She's a prop. She's she's there to ignore An obstruction. Yeah, she's there.  I'm interested to see if he's gonna fucking talk about her character I found most of holder's decisions to be more questionable rather than who she was So, yes, Ackbar wouldn't have changed much on a casting basis alone But it also didn't help the actor portraying him had passed away. I think whoever was casted. No, I don't care about the casting man Yes, that's not a point. It's it's about using someone who's already in the universe who has the exact same fucking rank And you blew him out the airlock and it's like, you know as much as I'll respect the original voice actor You can you can get an impersonator for admiral Ackbar Yeah, I mean how they CGI didn't talk in and Leia so And I mean Leia's voice changes. I mean, she's the same actor and her voice changes. Yeah. Yeah. This is the thing is it's you couldn't do it To and and just be like we've got so if Ackbar You bring in Ackbar as rag said that's a start and then we we involve this idea that he thinks po might be a mole I know it's unreasonable, but maybe we can make it work after a few Redrafts of the script Ryan, but no because everything. No, there's no possible way Everything has been done before You have to do something insane and bring it's purple air lady. Otherwise, you're not reinventing Listen admiral Ackbar is Darth Plague is the wise He just blowed out the airlock because they were like trust me From a personal point of view, especially given the context, it's more understandable Rags then makes an alternative scene suggestion It would have made much more sense if they insisted on keeping that stupid kamikaze maneuver To have admiral Ackbar be the one to do it himself Perhaps he turns the ship around and he begins to charge up the lightspeed engines And then the imperial captain sees it from the deck of the supremacy and he turns around to say It's a trap before admiral Ackbar slams through the Oh, it would have been so good. It would have been so wonderful. Oh, that would be so good You just shed a tear like oh Ackbar.  It would make sense for them to say that Because they've been following this ship around and they're all lined up and I mean To say something he said about you earlier. You didn't even disagree there, tiaro You just said like yeah, I mean if that works for you it's like all right then But even when we agree I get the this the worst the worst. Oh, yeah, he hates agreeing with you He'd be like, I guess I kind of agree with him Ultimately know less about him from the movies and we do lord urns character.   That's their choice She wasn't that's the thing if you went with my decision Right, which is better and disney could have had that one for free if they asked So we it's it was an arbitrary decision for them to have holdo exist period from nowhere And to have him die just so unceremoniously and a borderline off-screen so yeah Obviously that wouldn't have even happened if you did my idea though and it's like, yeah Holdo gets more development than akbar, which is precisely our problem. It's not That that's the reason why holdo should have more screen time than akbar. It's just such a circular reasoning Right because that's how they decided to write the characters, which was a huge mistake Both of these statements are true and whether it's a mistake or not as rags assert It's hard for us to say what would be better as we have not seen the ultimate reality Might be so much better Fucking anything would be better than holdo.  Yeah And you could explore his character and he could refer to the past When we fought the first that star we didn't you know such insight when he he could talk about the stuff that he had done Exactly, and it could be very In the story already Fine where the actor hadn't died and akbar had been given a featuring role They wouldn't have had to change how durne was written because akbar is such a boring life No, because he hasn't had a chance for it yet. That's the thing We don't know if he's boring and lifeless. We haven't had the chance to explore his character He has like two minutes of screen time. It's like we we don't even know akbar. This is the point. He's there We know he's he hasn't been invented. Oh, here's the thing news thing admiral akbar Has been established to do more military stuff than holdo does remember the line where he's like Oh, is that the holdo from the planet blah blah blah without the war blah blah You can swap that out for akbar the guy who took down the second death star And that actually happened like we actually saw that All the guy who helped take down the second death star obviously He's not the movie for long, but he says things. He tells people like do military maneuvers He establishes himself as a military leader God damn it quintin Is being a meme in the early 2000s Akbar being in the role would have changed nothing but the color of durne's skin Wrong only only if you decided to do nothing with He's saying the holdo looks like akbar, but with white skin That's a bit embarrassing quick That's kind of embarrassed. I don't know why he didn't salt admiral akbar.  He's hot compared to holdo come on Yeah, man. It's just like man.  It's an offhand statement that poe basically screwed over the rebellion with his numerous mistakes Yeah, name one name one Name one mistake poe made With the information he had It's very upset about this insisting that poe was the only character in the entire movie who was acting sensibly Now I understand why you would think this is the case because poe is portrayed To make you think that he's the hero Just reference a mistake he made quintin stopped going with a fucking metaphor But that's only so you can find out that he did wrong things later in the movie. He did wrong things That's so he just explained poe did wrong things Like if you rewrote the script in such a way that poe got killed off in the first 10 minutes And he wasn't in the rest of the movie then the rebellion would have gotten out of you're right. No No, no, he's right, but it's because of holdo not because of poe Well, what i'm what i'm saying is he's doing this thing where he acts like these characters are in a vacuum Yeah And i'm like if you change something like that with poe not being around then you would have to have somebody else To do the things and if they didn't do any of those things Well, the characters would be changed by that stuff and who knows what they would have done in that place. It's just It's it's like they like this domino effect Well, you know, he assumes His proof that poe is to blame and made mistakes Is the fact that if poe didn't exist things would have gone well But it's that's that's the same logic as you know, the winter soldier fucks up a lot of shit in Well, civil war and winter soldier you could be like so clearly winter soldier Did a bunch of wrong things because if he wasn't in it these wouldn't have happened It's like that's not true.  It's it's definitely holdo's fault not poe's And the thing is if poe had not destroyed the dreadnought then the movie would have been done Yeah, that's the other thing The dreadnought would have wiped them out So the dreadnought would have just blown him up if we're gonna go with the vague broad definition If poe never existed in the the film I think he said it never existed after the first 10 minutes to cover his ass there But let's say poe never existed at all the entire resistance is dead twice by the way because he knocked out the star killer I don't know man. It's it's weak. But yeah, all this because he think is like imagine like I don't what this fascination they have with holdo Well, it's just sad. It's like just let it go holdo's awful. She's a really awfully written character It's like no, no, nothing's bad about the last Jedi. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, oh god Man Their arguments are just just as bad as everything else's video for this movie completely fine Firstly, he destroys an entire classification of their fleet and kills well over a hundred of their barely surviving crew members Poe kills them poe I think you may have seen a different film mate Poe isn't a psychopathic murderer who runs around stabbing people or anything He's responding to people that don't exist. Maybe he's talking about a movie or not a word Oh That would explain this entire video rags. They're watching it. They've been watching a different film to us There we go. This video is like an scp This is actually like a clip from an alternate universe that somehow bled into our version of youtube.  He reminds me of like propaganda Like if you were on the front lines, you knew what poe did But then if you look at it from the perspective of like the war generals that generate all of the media Like poe is evil. He killed everyone. That's what he actually did. It's like, did he? Yeah, you think the nazis thought very highly of a silly side serve Very interesting quentin. You're like you have to sell poe's decisions as the the results we saw on screen Even though it's obviously hold those fault that everyone gets killed not poe's It's like if I and fundamentally snoke is the one who kills them. So You know, how do we want to frame this? This depends. It's completely up to you.  I just want to if quentin was here Quentin your your general tells you to take out your pistol and point it at your head and pull the trigger. What do you do? You're gonna ignore the direct command from your general Yeah, it's the general And then it turns out the quentin's gun was swapped out for a gun that injects him with a super intelligence And strength bug that allows him to save the day and he didn't believe his general And so everyone dies because he couldn't save them with the with the injection.   You saved all of our lives and this is confirmed later And you saved all of our lives Uh, it's been pointed out though. Maybe I should learn to trust those around me or put more faith in you po Because you made the right call that I didn't see The the the fact is as well You gotta you gotta consider that the bombers were already prepped For that very purpose in the beginning. Sorry, your voice isn't coming through man It's it's robot in a bit and I can't hear you now. I hope at least the stream could hear it Oh dear. Is it any better if I sound like a robot still? I'm gonna assume I still sound like a robot. Yeah Uh Hello. Hello. Hello. I heard you right. I heard I hear you now Let's just hope that was a bit of a gap. Um What I was saying is that uh Po's plan the whole time was to knock out the uh the turrets even from the beginning and so The bombers we we're assuming that must be a part of the plan because otherwise What the hell would be the point in po doing that and on top of that the bombers appear about a couple of like Space meters away from the the uh the dreadnought. Yeah, they're right there. They're they're flying with the fleet Man crude armed fuel. They are there and when you look at how slowly they travel that means that if they had aborted They would have been shot down Very easily so uh Ignoring layer in the in the beginning is absolutely valid because he was right and he does save the resistance by knocking out the dreadnought And then ignoring hold. Oh later was Completely I would have done the exact same thing And again the analogy with the uh the gun pointer Whitton's head is what I'm going for yeah The the stranger thing is how holdo wasn't mutiny the how the mutiny didn't happen like by everybody Yeah, because if you're on a ship like that, especially in a resistance Which they don't establish how official this military is but if the general is just sitting around saying Oh just have hope and you have the enemy bearing down on you and the clock's ticking and you're not doing anything Not giving any orders there is absolutely going to be a mutiny because Yeah, chain of command is important, but people don't want to be led to their Deaths anything any attempt at anything is better than just sitting there and dying and the final piece of argumentation. I think is relevant Uh Poe mutes layer For himself The bombers choose to follow poe instead of their general. So it's not poe's fault. They made their choice Like what else do you want from that scene? Yeah, that's true. Yeah pull back pull back. They don't you know And and this is the kind of stuff that this this is why a debate or conversation with quinton This would all fall apart because these are pieces of information. You can't deny. This is what's objective about the story And so you're just in trouble at that point And so it's much better to just make a video where you can invent what mean rags say and knock down Straw men and then let the jelly men fall on themselves. I just I like the idea of a jelly man It feels like something that quinton would have invented for him. He looks like he's made a jelly and so Yeah, like the I mean we've still got a good 13 No, 19 minutes of the video while we're nearly at four hours and 45 minutes of course 23 23 minutes. Yeah, there's gonna be more Stuff that he's gotten wrong, but I mean me and rags have basically torn apart an hour and a half of this Jeez So like I know there's a lot of people who want us to go right to the end But I don't think we're gonna be able to pull that off without going over six hours again, which is not exactly preferable for us I This is awful, man No, it is really bad this vid like This is the worst I've ever seen Well, I mean it's gonna be the worst for us because it's about us at least the other topics like don't concern us as directly Yeah Like this is about us and it's just blatant straw manning taking us out of context implying intention when there isn't any making shit up Like this is shit and quite frankly when the right opinion said that he was thinking about taking it down you should have You should have taken this video down because this video is a stain on your channel Yeah, I would say so as someone who actually likes a lot of the content He comes out with like this is easily his worst video. This is This is bad, man. I don't I don't know you.  Yeah, like two parts. I think is excessive alone to be honest It's gonna be two e-faps of just like normal parts through six and four or five hours Yeah, man I was gonna say you would you be happy to sort of stop here or do you want to give it a few more minutes? Like what?  She is incompetent as a leader And again, we're meant to believe that po is on the right and that she is on the wrong So that we can find out that we as an audience are wrong Po then personally said that's not why the film definitely portrays it that way. That's what he said Yes, the film is trying to do something but it fails miserably at it and kind of proves the opposite point Because of how incompetently it's written in portrayed Hashtag po did nothing wrong Rose and Finn on a mission that almost everyone seems to agree Had no point and work directly against the cause of the rebellion and just wasted a lot of time and resources And how you can attack the director from an out of universe perspective But not the person who planned the mission from an in-universe perspective Because he wrote it broke the fucking movie quit. This isn't a thing that actually happened This is a story that someone wrote these characters are not real The characters in the film don't exist Good lord quitton. Oh my god Holdo isn't real She's a character in a work of fiction.  He figures out what holdos plan is and he tells Finn po and some stranger over a calm signal He doesn't tell the entire plan and then he says by the way Go on that ship with the bad guys and then they all get kidnapped by the first order It's okay. My pausing is super delayed. Uh, yeah, he he's talking to fin It is fin's fault that dj here's the plan. He does not tell dj He tells Was it rose or po who was holding it? His po is talking to rose and fin on a little telecom and then he says have you guys found the code breaker Which has been vouched for by maz and what does fin say? Uh, we found a code breaker. That's not on po That's on the people. That's on fin. We're like, yeah, it's Damn my internet Yeah, and whenever po in they don't say that, you know, let's go someplace private or keep it down or Put it in. Do I have a headset or something?  Just like the rest of all the ones that you've made I'm just gonna do the same thing. I just distinguish between fantasy and reality. Give me give me one second Although is it real?  It's not po's fault.   You're not making an argument.    Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Why do they have to guard the escape pods? Why would people want to leave if there's a plan? Exactly They wouldn't leave on the skate pods if they knew the plan because the plan would be better than going through the escape pods Yeah, quintin.  Po would have heard the plan and been like right then let's sit down and do nothing to the whole film. Yeah Yeah information and was the difference between his understanding of the plan and the actual plan Really that great because you see he thought they were gonna sneak away on some ships And just try and sneak away from the battle Yeah, that's a bit different from having a planet to be able to hide on versus just sneaking away, hopefully It's space. Where are you gonna hide? This is are you he's suggesting that po's plan Is no real difference from holdo's plan or something It's like well, shouldn't that then add to our argument that you should have told in the plan because he was on Board with one that was similar Yeah Fucking hell Geez you're really in a non heroic way and then and then later later told us and well Actually, we were gonna sneak away from the battle and hide on a planet Like I don't know how more information would have stopped. How do you hide a planet? What do you mean? How he doesn't understand how more information would have it's like that information po literally says wow this might actually work Po's on board with it.  None of that would have happened I was not significant as a change That's ignoring the fact that somehow the first order Just didn't look out a window and see this planet or anything like that Like that's ignoring all of that nonsense that doesn't make any sense in any universe Like how did how did tiro proof this and be like that makes sense? That's a good argument It's terrible.  It's like Oh, I would yeah It's like there was a path, but it's covered up by you know a Closer gap or something And even I don't get it man. I just The poh thing is just it should be so cut and dry to people No, no, just but they just they I think they want to think that what the movie wants them to think is Actually like it actually makes sense Right thing Like you can pretend that from a certain skewed point of view maybe po was secretly the hero of the movie But in order to really Like what scenes should we ignore? And also why is he implying that the hero can't make mistakes?  Uh-oh, you're right. Oops daily She would have had some development in a previous movie or something.  It makes no sense I actually follows his previous point by saying that although he accepts its plot contrivances Um, so do you want to try and I don't know do you want to just skip to the end see how they end it? Yeah There's a 20 minutes is going to take us another two hours.    Yeah, yeah, yeah me me I get to do that because because I'm objecting that Oh, you're defending his gatekeeping. I was going to say wait Do we just catch quitting say uh, see this is why we shouldn't watch it out of context We should just skip to the end what just go back just go back like 15 20 seconds. What time is it on for you right now? It's 144 59 So go to 144 40 Okay, Alex because he put the words fans in quotation marks so-called fans. Yeah, that's gatekeeping.  Oh, wow, I just realized they put the timer of your video on screen now Oh Nifty May you could have had that you know You could have had that throughout the rest of the video, but it might have gotten in the way of your points So I could have to stand why you didn't Oh, it's so embarrassing fans. You're gonna tell people who are and are not fans of Star Wars.   All right. I get to do that because because because I'm objective.  I didn't say that Absolutely, correct. Righto milk is way better than Quentin. Oh, yes. Definitely agree with that Him though when Alex does it that makes him a bad person. No self-awareness at all I achieve says it's not a piece of dreadful filmmaking man, that's just it's just that's We would we would have missed that if we didn't skip to this random point. I know this is the thing There's probably a lot of content left to be honest We were a random point in the rest of this film video thing trainwreck and It's him just inventing shit just making shit up him doing as that's part of the course of this video at least At least looks like guys If there is a point you want us to respond to in the end part that we're skipping over Just just know that it will commonly it will likely be us saying we didn't say that Like you could just cut that out of this video and play it whatever you see anything else I was going to say do you want to do the last two minutes? Let's see what happens in there Interrupted it is far from my favorite I achieve video but to frame him as this person who's out for the blood of everyone who dislikes the last Jedi It's something that I cannot disagree with more and when he attempts to demonstrate that he's going after extreme people Rags becomes annoyed and says he's meant to be addressing the real criticisms as if there are points that we're meant to address Some points we're not and when he expresses Some criticisms are way more substantive than others. Also. That's a really like just just just a very very um Unfair view of what rags response was. That's a very interesting Take away from my video. It would be like I'll just do the same thing TRO can't accept that rags has an opinion and this entire video is him reading about it There you go can't stand that he agrees with about as much of it as he does So he tries to tone it down by yeah, I guess you know, he says that which is fair I suppose that was a very unfair summary and the easiest counter I would have is the eye at everything sites a very reasonable set of Comments as the vitriolic backlash and rags points out that that's not the case at all with what you've just read Done. I wonder if the right opinion has said anything about the immense vitriol of his the comments in his video Yeah What he does like although sometimes rags may dispute him with fair and reasonable points Other times he just comes up with half ass explanations to denigrate or dismiss the point and he like when Like quinton Which one he's even referring to from his perspective Other than if I can't prove something with absolute certainty, then I shouldn't even make the Judgment on it. I don't know that's pretty weak sauce though Oh wait Lee brown guy said you missed an important part 144 20 if you watch it interrupted because you did miss the context They play a clip. I'm not a fan of quinton, but you did take it out of context Okay, let's take a look 144 20. I'm assuming this is back to A comment about the fans I guess keep doing the ho ho ho self-awareness points has buried any real criticism of the film self-awareness folks By the way, can we just stop to remember all the times in this video that rags has claimed that I hate everything Isn't a real fan to prove his point if you call yourself a star wars fan No, no, no, you're not what I'd call a star wars fan. I'd call you a star wars Apologist, yeah, it's the same. I mean It's pretty coy and he said a star is what I would call you You I guess you could call that gatekeeping of some kind but like only in terminology I mean that's definitely not What I mean what I would say is I do you honestly think that I would call him a star Someone who is defending star wars and who has an emotional connection to star wars is like not a star wars fan Yeah, I think that's the important distinction rags didn't say he's not a fan He said he would call him an apologist before calling her a fan So like the idea that they would say that and not see the obvious thing of I'm saying that he is Emotionally attached to it and that he is making arguments for it and that he's an apologist for it But I don't think he's a fan Yeah, I don't get the impression from that statement that he's saying that I hit everything isn't a fan Yeah, or that he's not like a real fan or anything like that. Yeah, definitely not and it's definitely not what I'd take away from it But I mean, you know It's As if I hit everything doesn't do the same but worse. I guess would be my biggest counter to that And obviously Quinn Quinn is just hypocritical to defend one and attack the other Yeah Not this destiny to comparison which is I see why he would take an issue with it I'll I guess in the future. I'll be more clear, but I still will stand up for what I said That he's he's an apologist, you know, he's he's I've said that very clearly. He's emotionally attached to it He has a star wars apologist and I think that doesn't include him being a fan of it is kind of strange Not this destiny to comparison which is insufficient on multiple occasions The destiny to comparison is extremely poignant and it works pretty much as a slam dunk Um and you've not proven otherwise to arrow from what I've seen It's like nope Although he does close the video by saying he watched the destiny to video It really does not feel like he did because it in no way reflects sort of vitriol that Yeah, the chat is saying like obviously an apologist would be include being a fan of something You know, you practice.  Like of course not obviously not Um, I was gonna say something about what he just said, but I forgot it Watch the destiny to video.  So they're clearly different things like that's not what rags said anyway, so Or about the concept comment that's it wasn't a comment somebody made about I was upset I was just mad that ihc criticized destiny Yeah, and I think he he might actually reference a couple of like he does he doesn't in the comment comebacks as well Where he highlights people up all the other end of the spectrum the ones who love something ridiculously It's just strange because I made a video about destiny too, and I think I said it was like Exceedingly mediocre or something like that. I was not a fan of it, and I haven't played it since I made that video No way reflects sort of vitriol that ihc is referring to in all honesty You're unlikely to enjoy the video if you're an ihc fan just because of that tone of contempt that rank seems to Pertain if this is something you enjoy wait I Wouldn't like his video if I'm not a fan of him.  I'm sorry one of the more thought-provoking points made was about the negativity bus But i'm not sure I actually covered it in the right way You see for me There's a lot more to say when you find something you disagree with rather than when there's something that you agree with And in reviews and in responses like these it can often give off the impression that there was more dislike than like I can see that rags made some no there was There was it was almost like a two to one What is um, what is the footage in the background too? It's well, you see This represents this is this going to be straddling the middle line or something is that what this represents? It represents the balancing that a content creator has to do as he Attempts to navigate across the chasm of negativity that is Uh, critic criticism culture on the internet in order to hopefully reach Metaphorical success on the other side Fair points, but on balance I find that he was too obsessed with his own negativity and consequently diametrically opposing himself to almost everything that i actually said I think you diametrically opposed yourself to almost everything rag said because you're trying to defend.  So that's the thing I like I hate everything. I still watch some of his videos, but like when I watched your takedown I was just like, yeah, that was pretty easy for you to do because I had everything made a piss-pull video and this is the thing when we talked to him. He said he regrets making it It was like extremely rushed. He doesn't even know what the point really was for the video I mean, there's there's I ate everything regretted making his the right opinion Clearly had regrets because he was seriously considering taking it down I never thought about taking mine down and I don't know why you would because it holds up never had a Incling of a thought in my head of taking my video down because I stand by it This is not to say that me and rags have not made any error whatsoever in any small way in both of our videos that have been criticized you Uh, I accept the fact that I didn't eat before this I accept that I need to be more explicit In many parts of my videos So that people don't I will I'll do the same. I will try to be more explicit when I talk um, I'll many months have gone by and Yeah, I'll say the e-faps have helped me a lot Yeah, we got sort of reflect I'm gonna start Yeah, it really helps to get your yours and wolves and Cinema sin sins and smuds and all that to get their opinions. It really helps out And I'm it's my intention to do reviews in the future on games And we got some line to do when I start doing content really soon for everyone if you're asking Um, and doing the e-faps will definitely help when I look over things same thing with watching People like Matthew Matosis and stuff You know, you learn a lot from doing it yourself over and over and from watching other people who are better than you At that do it as well and let this video be a lesson as to how you do not respond to people Like you don't invent things they said you don't change what they said to mean something else like Literally taking a clip and saying it's from a different section of the video that shit's Bucked up. Don't do that. Yeah I mean and and you can respond to videos Where nobody says anything wrong. You can have a different way of maybe like if if somebody Wants to I mean if it really is all subjective And some of this wasn't some of this was talking about, you know objective stuff in the film But you don't have to necessarily disagree with somebody to make a response to them Yeah And turning perceptively anodyne statements into controversial anodyne statements I I'll have to look it up anodyne. Is that a word? anodyne Not likely to cause offense or disagreement and somewhat dull. All right Yeah, not likely to provoke dissenter offensive and offensive often do anodyne. I have never heard of that one I'm putting that in my list. Not saying it's wrong to use words. I've never heard of i'm just saying anodyne The other thing I it's fine to use words and stuff. I wish you'd Have a word of the day or a