Jinx, the pet dog food company, has announced a partnership with Hollywood actor and entrepreneur Chris Evans and his dog Dodger. As part of the collaboration, Evans shall be giving creative direction at Jinx and the actors had also been involved in brand strategy and marketing campaigns, being part of a new commercial that shall be shot later this year. Now Jinx's pet food products comprise premium, natural kibble, dental chews, jerky treats, limited-ingredient and freeze-dried meal topples.


A new partnership was formed today between Bemidji State University and the Mitchell-Hamlin School of Law. Under a new transfer agreement signed by BSU President Dr. Faith Hensroot and Mark Gordon, President of the Mitchell-Hamlin School of Law, Bemidji State students can complete their undergraduate and law degrees in a total of six years rather than the traditional seven. This is a tremendous opportunity for our students who are really interested in going into the field of law to be able to start here at Bemidji and then be able to transfer and get a degree from each institution. Students in any BSU department or program who have an interest in law school can potentially participate in the transfer partnership, although they must be admitted into Mitchell-Hamlin under the school's normal process.


Welcome to the waterway. My name is Emily. Today's video is our human body morning basket. For trivia and fun facts, we have the National Geographic Kids Weird But True Human Body 300 Outrageous Facts about your awesome anatomy. We always find these so funny because there are so many crazy, you wouldn't even think about them type of facts in them. And then we have the 100 things to know about the human body. And these are always perfect for a morning time because they're just short little snippets that help you learn a little bit more and they're colorful and fun to look at. For read-alouds, we will be doing Who Was Leonardo da Vinci? Who Was Marie Curie? Who Was Clara Barton? And then we'll be reading it from Wow In The World, the how and why of the human body from your tongue to your toes and all the guts in between. And Emily loves this podcast so I knew she would absolutely love this book. And I also love that they have QR codes. You guys know I love QR codes in the back that have to do with their podcast that is topics of human body. And then we have the Fantastic Body, what makes you tick and how you get sick. And this one is a lot of fun too. It's very colorful and pretty in-depth. And a lot of the topics will correspond with our human body unit study so I'm very excited about that. I also have a stack of picture books that we will more than likely read through. So we have Inside Your Outside. Oh, the things you can do that are good for you. What Happens to a Hamburger? Hear Your Heart, The Skeleton Inside You, My Five Senses, Germs Make Me Sick, A Germs Journey, The Magic School Bus Inside The Human Body, The Magic School Bus Explores The Senses, Me and My Amazing Body, Parts, More Parts, Even More Parts, Dim Bones, The Busy Body Book, Who Says Women Can't Be Doctors and Explore the Human Body. For hands-on activities, for Emily to do while I'm reading aloud, we have Build the Human Body so she can build a two and a half foot skeleton. So this is what the model will look like. Then we have a Squishy Human Body which is 21 Removable Body Parts. And then the last thing that we have for hands-on are the Dr. Livingston Anatomy Jigsaw Puzzles. So there are seven volumes and what's really cool about them is once you have assembled all seven of them, they all join to make the full human body. So this is volume one, the human head. And then we have volume two, the human thorax. Volume three, the human abdomen. Volume four, the human right arm. Volume five, the human left arm. Volume six, the human right leg. And volume seven, the human left leg. And then the games that we've included in our human body morning basket are Brain Busters, Human Body Trivia, Anatomy Flux, the Professor Noggin, Human Body Trivia Deck, and Organ Attack. And then partially removed.


You know once I work out how to use Google slides that is Yeah All right, can anyone hear me yep. All right. Hi everyone so I Was asked to present to you today on the topic of Building tools for open source communities Quite honestly, I don't know what that means either So we're just going on the fly here trying to work out what that could mean That's a good tool to build an automatic microphone mover But when you think of starting an open source project What's the first thing you think of that you need you're probably gonna need we're gonna need some kind of tooling for it Immediately you're probably gonna think Immediately probably gonna think that we're developers we need to get Version control software probably gonna need an issue tracker Many many other small things and when I hear most people talk about this the media response these days is oh Yeah, we'll just go and we'll go to the githubs and use that because it offers everything at most Most people would want in an open source project The problem is that for many of us Github wasn't actually around When we first started contributing to open source. I don't know when everyone here first started using open source but Github only really became a thing and I I think was 2008 Somewhere around there It's about it that was about then before then we mostly only had Other DIY project hosting and we also had this amazing thing called Google code You might remember Google code it sort of starred in 2004 Eventually sort of grew ended up hosting 1.5 1.4 ish million projects and At the end of the year is dying It's already dying and we're just getting to visit it on its death bed basically you can go in retrieve a Tarball of all the old so all the old source for the projects But come next year a lot of open source projects that are hosted on Google code are going to be Forgotten We're already seeing it today where people are suddenly realizing that oh that Application script I used to love using is no longer. It's old URL And they're having to go dig it out and then we're going on to get up which is great but There's thousands lines of code out there that we may never realize that we needed So open source tooling is Really something that comes and goes you have to be able to continuously Improve it and iterate on it and hopefully get hubs gonna stay around but you know Who's to say it's not going to go like Google code? Source forage is also another one that was there. I heard someone mention that I don't know the history myself, but It's it's still there for now and This hates me okay, anyway, my name is Dion I Am the Automatician I work at automatic belt the company behind WordPress, but the company behind WordPress comm You can find me on Twitter on the web. You can get my email or even your WordPress dashboard. I Work on WordPress itself.  There's about 500 of us spread over 45 countries No one in Singapore as far. I'm so aware But we'd love to change that part of working on WordPress Has led to me doing a lot of things over the years. I Originally started off like many people probably in this room just contributing to one open source project I'm not quite sure how many Years I spent just contributing to the project, but I started about 10 years ago Back then It was mostly just contributing via track Which we still have today. I might add it's still on SVN as it was back then We now have git mirrors of obviously Also a github mirror, but that's another talk topic That's just one of the small things that you need When it comes to an open source software Eventually you need more than just an issue tracker You need more than just somewhere to put your code If you ups if your project grows So does everything else around it when WordPress first began automatic did not exist Automatic started because the founder of WordPress mullingwag decided that he wanted to further WordPress and make it easier for People to access through the commercial venture wordpress.com That was a tool around the early version of wordpress. It was a way to get more people to interact with wordpress To get easy access to it without having to be a developer without having to understand how web hosting works today you can pick up any bit of Any web hosting package and wordpress is going to run on it Unless you know, it's one of these new fancy things that doesn't seem to support PHP Yeah, I don't know of any of those either But the point is WordPress will run on whatever you give it and that's been one of its major Things these days But having WordPress run is only half the story WordPress has a lot behind it. I can't preview it Ah Behind run behind WordPress We have a lot of WordPress store gate eyes. We have version control We have version update checks for both plugins themes and core plus translations Translations are a huge part of what wordpress is WordPress is used by I Don't know how many languages I Could search but there are Quite a lot of them English accounts for approximately 50% of them that means that well 50% of the time chances are the person using wordpress doesn't actually speak English and Being in Asia. I'm sure there's many people here who have relatives or friends Or even acquaintances that Pot possibly are not comfortable speaking in English Maybe they are they understand what English is but They're not comfortable using it in everyday life I'm sure in Singapore. It's not rare to be able to speak English but when you move to somewhere else say Spain Once you go into the country areas You will come across a lot of people who will understand what you're speaking to them if you speak to them in English But they're not going to speak to you in English They can speak their tongue and that's that's what they know the tooling for wordpress.org to be able to support these people is One of the most important parts of wordpress to me It allows people to actually interact with wordpress and we have hundreds of volunteers contributing thousands of translations to wordpress every release the wordpress.org also has a open source plugin directory which itself is a tool to provide WordPress plug-in developers and theme developers a location to host their creation and spread it with other WordPress users We provide the tooling for other open source developers to create their open source project We offer SVN backends for it. We manage their plugin package creation and We create support forums for them All those things are the tools that the plugin authors or theme authors don't have to create themselves I've personally worked on a lot of this work myself and It is no small feat to Create these tools. They're complex pieces of software that Without They're without thinking you might think is just a small bit of the ecosystem They're really not Without those tools you just have no open source project in the first place this presentation isn't Something that I've rehearsed It's pretty much made up on the spot Mostly because I got asked to present this with very short notice And then you know procrastinated on it So I thought I'd just quickly skip over most of what Most of what the abstract would have been and keep talking about PHP and how it applies to WordPress as most of you know WordPress is a PHP application It still supports PHP 5.2 Yeah, does anyone here run that No, I'm glad five three Okay This is really good. I personally don't support anything less than five four Yeah One of the reasons for that is not that graph. It's not that graph either, but there you are English us 53% I'm not gonna attempt to work out those colors on this screen But what I did want was this screen The PHP version that WordPress users actually use You can view this online at WordPress.org slash about slash stats but The core crux of it is that if you look at PHP 5.2 usage It is currently sitting at 7.4 percent this one right here Then as we move around you'll find PHP 5 3 at 19.9 percent Five four at twenty nine point seven percent, but you get the idea PHP 7 is thankfully growing at 2.3 It's actually a little bit higher than that, but whatever WordPress knows this because we've got the tooling around it to collect these aggregate stats from many millions upon millions of WordPress installs. I don't know the exact number But I don't want to I don't need to You got a question sorry This does not include WordPress.com Nor does this include the really bad hosts who disabled the WordPress update notifications. They exist If you find them, please use another host The numbers that you see here is for all versions of WordPress 2.8 Eight onwards, I believe If we look at WordPress 4.5 and 4.6, which just got released recently Thankfully these numbers a little bit different. I don't have the graph with me But you'd find that PHP 5.2 is more down around the 4 percent That's still million that's still over a million websites The 5.3 usage actually increases to almost 25 percent Thankfully, we do actually recommend that people use the latest version of work PHP with their WordPress Currently we recommend PHP 5.6 purely because the jump to PHP 7 has caused a lot of compatibility issues for many plugins Many plugins aren't necessarily built by people who are competent PHP developers. I say competent not as a Not as something against the developer, but simply that they're not keeping up with the current standards of development There are many things that change between PHP 4 and 5 and There's many things have changed between 5 and 7 that For many developers would have caught them unaware They weren't aware that they were doing something wrong previously that is now a fatal error They might not even get a fatal error. They might just get a warning that they never saw These developers often don't understand or know that there was a problem until they're told about it one of the things that we are doing for Plug-in authors at least in WordPress.org is we're starting to scan their plugins using the PHP 7 compatibility checkers Flagging to both the plug-in author and ourselves that hey, this plug-ins got an issue under PHP 7 Can we do something to help the plug-in is that? Documentation that needs updating so far. This is still in the planning stages and slowly being rolled out But it's something we're working on and it's yet another tool that we build to help plug-in developers Create better open-source projects That does mean if you look at the PHP supported versions that You'll notice we've just passed PHP 5.5 security status maintenance window We're nearing the end of PHP 5.6 active development or active maintenance. I'm not quite sure the wording but come 2017 PHP 7 is going to be the only option that we can really recommend to Anyone who is launching a new website? Even though that's wool Yeah But what that actually means is that currently only 23 point four percent of WordPress and Stalls are running on a version of PHP that is currently in security maintenance What this tells me is that Although we can do a lot around WordPress and open source tooling ultimately it's down to hosts and WordPress users and everyone in this room to help update PHP so that When we get all these new features in PHP 7.2, we might actually be able to use them in our WordPress plugins in the next decade. I say decade because At the current adoption rate, it's going to take a long time before PHP 7 is our dominant platform Even today PHP 5.4 is our dominant install base Thankfully 5.5 and 5.6 are slowly eroding that But we're seeing more people move from those to PHP 7 than we do from 5.3 to higher There's only so much education that helps Writing better tools around how to migrate WordPress sites to newer versions of PHP How to migrate WordPress plugins to newer versions of PHP? And how users themselves can migrate their own site or hosts We have attempted to contact hosts who run PHP 5.2 WordPress installs We made a very big dent when we got I'm not gonna name who but a very large US host to get rid of their PHP 5.2 installs Unfortunately, it's still only move the needle a few percent We're now looking at a super long tail that quite honestly we can't find contact details for You can look at the IP and yeah, that's probably this company But they've resold that to another company who's resold that service on a c-panel installed with his other company and Ultimately, there's very little we can do So that's me asking you If you can find a way to help us Find a way to help Your future user or your future developer or your future friend We'd love it Don't actually know what that was. But yeah, I work with WordPress Not everyone loves it. Some people prefer Drupal some people for a gym. La pit some people for a PHP nuke even though it doesn't exist I Don't mind as long as you're using open source software. It's all good. I'm here at a PHP conference. So Even though WordPress still has 20 6.6 of the top 10 million websites and 59.9 percent CMS market share Everyone's still an open source project and still using the same tools to get the sum of gold So thanks everyone because you're making the web a better place for both WordPress and you That's the end of my main presentation I I'm open to any questions about anything WordPress both here and later About working remotely. I work in Australia as small city called Brisbane There's five other people in my from automatic in the same city But the rest of them around the world time zones are interesting as I'm sure you're aware But please do a go along to work at Singapore It's on September the Six I won't be there. Unfortunately But it's out that URL Just in case you didn't know Word camp org is a great tool every year There are hundreds of word camps around the world as a word camp in Singapore coming up as a word camp in Japan coming up India and Nepal They're all in this part of the world. Oh Shouldn't forget Sydney's Australia. That's the end of September if anyone wants to come over but WordPress has many tools built around it to help open source Communities around the world's interact and Almost anything you can build For any given community is a tool that benefits the open source community in one form or another So I'm happy to take questions now or later depends if we've got time Yep, we've got time. Okay. If anyone has any questions. I'd like to ask Feel free to throw them at me So I Not entirely sure what you're gonna say there WordPress has many communities around the world There are many local meet-up groups. I believe there's one here in Singapore as well. Yep, I Don't know the URL, but I'm pretty sure I could Google it Meetup.com slash WordPress Singapore. Yeah, that sounds about right If anyone wants to get involved WordPress itself What make dot WordPress dog is Unreachable on this Wi-Fi so I have internet yes My service down Not the wordpress service just to be clear my local sandbox my VM So you can't see that But make that WordPress dog is the central hub that we use to contribute to WordPress from there We link to all our local Teams that help make WordPress what it is. We've got a translation team. We've got documentation team We've got a support team a plug-in team a theme team a Core team I shouldn't forget that one We've got the help hub team and A lot more that I can't think of right now, but there are people like you trying to make WordPress a better application Yeah Php fig that's an interesting topic One that we can probably discuss over more social drinks later That being said WordPress is quite happy to work with a great open source community on a lot of things We already coordinate a lot of things with other open source projects Security issues is right up there before we release anything we look at that affects another project We try to stick with standards Unfortunately the standards that have been written Diverged from WordPress's philosophies in a lot of ways We'd like to adopt PSR's Unfortunately, they're not written in a way that WordPress can't use them We don't support namespaces. We Still support PHP 5.2 that kind of means that we can't implement most PSR's in a nice user-friendly way as far as I'm aware Coding standards conflict as well, but you know, there are issues that we can get past but It's something that for WordPress at least doesn't necessarily benefit the user directly and Many people in the past have focused solely on the user experience Rather than the developer experience. So things are changing slowly over time I'll be interested in seeing where it goes. I don't know myself anything else Okay WordPress still collects statistic data based on the HP access logs that WordPress sends They work yet that WordPress sends so twice daily your WordPress install will go and check for an updated version of WordPress plugins and themes One of the things that the version WordPress version update check sends along with it is information regarding its system So it sends along the WordPress version the PHP version the MySQL version all the more DB version as it may be They're included to help determine if the updated version of WordPress can actually support the vote that version of WordPress Well that version of PHP When we first added it if we still support a PHP 5.4 Point 3 as far as I'm aware So we were adding it with a future future intention of switching to PHP 5.2 but over time we found that it's a much More valuable source of information for statistic purposes So we can actually see the state of the WordPress universe as it is So that's where it comes from unfortunately, we don't have any more fine-grained details about things like Who the server is or what? PHP extensions they're running although I would really like to know that Yes in certain cases I Can't tell you what your website runs right now, but I mean from our data, but I can tell that The servers hosting your net block predominantly run PHP 7 so overall anonymous data collection and Hopefully in the future will have more opt-in anonymous feedback to help us create better projects So Yep, I'm aware of that There are certain plugins of round to disable that functionality I don't know them off my hand, but they exist. Yep No, we make no see we make no secret of the fact that we Collect an aggregated data like that Now we think it's valuable information for Both WordPress other open source projects and the web in general gives us a good it gives us a good very wide net of Example hosts we can look at The top 10 million websites out there and determine that yeah PHP runs on 80% of them or that 90% of them run a recent version of PHP but that doesn't tell us about the million other small web hosts that Every day web users and mom and pop websites run on and they're where the majority of the users are Yeah I'm sorry. I'm having trouble hearing you now one one of the one thing in WordPress is the development cycle and I Made my research and there is bedwalks Sorry, that works I'm not catching the word sorry I Rocks, yes, sorry I'm not I'm not entirely sure I'm from What you're trying to get that unfortunately I Lot to talk to you later I'm just really bad at hearing in large rooms and Aircon and yeah, I'm rather tired right now. I Don't have jet lag like some of some people here do but I didn't sleep much But no really talked to me afterwards and I'll answer every question you got Was there anything else? Okay, then


Good morning, Seattle. I've always wanted to say that. This is my third Moscon. I was here back in 2019. And then last year, I was virtual. So thank you so much for inviting me back again. So yes, hey, everyone. Back in 2019, I stood on this very stage. And I told you that technical problems are people problems. And then last year, I spoke to you through the virtual stage. And I told you that as SEOs, it is fundamental that we do not work in silos. So this year, I'm hoping that I'm going to talk to you about a very specific approach to delivering value. But a little story first to set the scene. Everyone who knows me knows that I love saying stories. After around eight years in my career, I was starting to get really frustrated that I felt like I have no control over the implementation part. And when I say the implementation part, I mean the technical implementation part. So I actually sat down. This was an idea for a talk that I never ended up doing. And I calculated the percentage of recommendations that never got implemented in my career. And I found that only less than 20% got implemented, which is a little disappointing to say, but I have a feeling that a lot of us can relate to that number. So a little over a year ago, I started a new in-house head of SEO role. And it was within e-commerce company. And the only reason that I applied for this role is that it sat in the tech team. I was so done sitting in marketing. This role actually was reporting directly into the CTO, the Chief Technology Officer, which is something I've never seen before. So I thought to myself, I'm finally going to be in the driver's seat. I'm going to sit in the team that has the power to implement my recommendations. So I come from the world of large aggregator websites. I used to work for Zoopla, who are like the UK equivalent of Zillow. They had tech debt all across their site, and they had over 10 million pages. But this e-commerce website, it was only a few years old, and it was fresh. And when I say fresh, I mean it was one of the cleanest that I'd ever seen. So my first thought was, where is the tech debt? Where are the tech legacy issues? Where's the crawl budget issues? Where's the indexability challenges? Redirect chains, JavaScript rendering issues, broken internal links. Where are you, my old friends? Where are my usual suspects? What are usual suspects? Usual suspects are tech SEO issues that we are used to finding that make us feel like we know what we're doing. So if the usual suspects are missing, what do I even recommend? Is there anything scarier than a tech SEO human not finding tech SEO issues on the website that they're working on? The thing is, I mean, of course they had their share of issues, but none of them were big enough to actually make an impact. You know, as SEOs, we love talking about identifying quick wins.  What are the quick wins? And we love to use this term that absolutely everyone hates saying, but we still insist on using it, which is low hanging fruit. What is the low hanging fruit? But we never actually talk about what we should do if there are absolutely none. So at this point, I started thinking, how am I going to prove my worth? You know, I was new in the company. I was the first SEO that they hire, and I wanted to make sure that I proved to them that SEO is an important channel, and they can actually get something out of me. So I decided to do what I'm most comfortable doing, which is dive into the data, which is also known as my comfort zone. OK, so just a quick note throughout this deck. I work for Papier, which is a beautiful e-commerce stationery company. They are actually spreading in the US right now as well, but I'm going to be using examples from a lot of different e-commerce websites, not just Papier. So the first thing I decided to do at that point was I dissected the website. I wanted to split it into templates. So this is an example using the website Maid. They're a furniture e-commerce company, and I started kind of diving into them and trying to understand what are the different templates. So this is an example of a category page. What type of rooms does someone have that can have furniture in it? And then this is an example of a product listing page. So this is when you kind of dive into sofas, and you kind of see all these different sofas that are listed out, and you can filter them and sort them. And then this is an example of a product detail pages. So once you actually dive into a specific sofa, you can see details about it, and you can convert at that point. And then there's everything else. There's your about page, there's your home page, there's your blog post, and so on. So if I were to say that a typical e-commerce website has these templates, it would kind of look like that. You've got your category page, your product listing pages, your product detail page, and then you've kind of got everything else. So I needed to figure out at that point which template provided the most value. But how do we even define value? Or to be really honest, it doesn't really matter how I define it, right? What matters is how does the business define value? So what is the high level KPI that we are being measured against? So it's not visibility, it's not rankings, and it's not even sessions. It's organic revenue at that point. Like this is what people care about. This is what your boss cares about. This is what bringing in the money. So let's see which one of our templates drives the most organic revenue. This is fictional data, but to be honest, it's kind of close to the truth. When I sat down and I dissected my different templates, this is how it looked like. So with my product listing pages, my PLPs, they drove 60% of the organic revenue. And then everything else together drove around 40% of organic revenue. So if my PLPs happen to be driving 60% of revenue, then we should focus our effort and energy into optimizing those. The thing is as SEOs, we tend to focus our recommendations on site-wide issues. You know, we give an audit and the audit kind of looks at stuff like across the whole site. But the more that we dice and slice our data, the more informed decisions we can make at that point.  If I know that a specific section only drives like 10% of revenue, then why would I spend a lot of time kind of giving recommendations on that section? So instead, we need to focus our efforts on the template that drives the highest revenue. So in our examples case and the one I'm gonna be leading with, it happened to be our product listing pages. But before I go ahead any further, I just wanna say hi to all our non-e-commerce folks in the audience. I know there's a lot of you. I'm a little worried that you're gonna tune me out. So please do not tune me out just yet. Even though this does feel like an e-commerce focus talk, some of the recommendations and the learnings that I'm gonna share, they can be applied to any website type. Because all websites are template-based. All websites have that one template that makes the most difference. And I'm sure that even before you dive into the data, you kind of know that about your own websites and the websites that you are working on. So this is using Zoopla, which is a marketplace aggregator website for property. So here's an example of a category page that they have. This looks at their new homes for sale. And then this is an example of what their version of a product listing page looks like. Once you actually look up a certain location or a zip code, you're gonna get all these different properties listed. And then this is an example of what their PDP or their product detail page looks like. Once you dive into an actual property that I definitely will not be able to afford. And then this is everything else. So this is examples of what their homepage looks like and their blog posts and so forth. So if you take one thing from this section, it is to define your one template that is worth optimizing. Okay, let's do this. So the second part is all about the discovery. So this is like my brainstorming. I knew at that point based on the data that I wanted to focus on product listing pages. But what am I gonna do about them? Now if I Google product listing pages, this is what it is for people not too familiar with e-commerce. It's basically the page on your website and we've showed a lot of examples that presents a list of products based on the category or the search query. So here's a few examples again. Etsy, very popular in the UK, also in the US. This is a PLP for their drink and bar where page. You can see here there's a bread crumb up there. The products are listed on the side. You've got the heading and then you've got your filters. ASOS, I'm gonna use them a lot as examples. So they are UK fashion e-commerce site. This is an example of their PLP. You can see like the product up there and then a little description, even some internal linkings for related links. This is what it looks like when you compare it with the mobile version. And traffic in general tends to fall directly on PLPs via different channels. But if I were to focus on what pathways people actually get to when they're on the actual website, you know, it can be very different. The journey can be different. So someone can go on the navigation and from there they can find themselves landing on a product listing page. Or someone can do an internal search on the site and from there end up going to a product listing page. Or you could be on a category page like the example we saw with made and then find yourself go on a PLP. Or you can be on the actual PLP itself and then you can set up some filters and from there you end up landing on a new product listing page. So it's really important that we break a template down into its building blocks. But the thing is you're always gonna have site-wide building blocks like your navigation and footer. But I'm not gonna focus on those in this talk. Instead I wanna focus on what are the building blocks that could be unique to each template and in our example, the one that's unique for PLPs. So let's use ASOS as our primary example now. So I've got my product name up here. I've got a product description down there. And then I've got my breadcrumbs. I've got relevant links. In this specific example, you might not be able to read it but it goes to the PLP for sleeveless blazers. And then I've got all my filters here. So if I were to kind of split that PLP into its building blocks, I would categorize it into you've got your content stuff, your internal linking and then your tech stuff. And this is what it kind of looks like. You know, name and description falls under content. Breadcrumbs and relevant links would fall under your internal linking. And then everything filter related would fall under tech. And I'm gonna explain why in a little bit. But before I go on Twitter and I see a whole bunch of how come you're not talking about page speed or how come you're not talking about JavaScript? Why is it that not included in tech? The thing is, even though these are all things to consider from a tech standpoint, in this specific example, what I really wanna do is define our templates building block. Now, I'm gonna ask this in an SEO conference, which is not the right thing to do, but I really want us all just for a minute to take off our SEO hat and to put on our product hat instead. So if I were to start diving into these one by one, when I talk about content, just some examples on what I mean there and how we can optimize some of it. Using the ASOS example, you've got, you're heading markup up there. And this is usually something that you put on an H1 and it's very important for it to be targeting your main key term. And then you've got, it's really important for you to be optimizing your description here. That block of text usually makes the most difference between one PLP to the other. And then mobile parity is something very important to consider at that point. You see a lot of e-commerce websites where their product listing pages can look completely different, desktop versus mobile. And there's a lot of important information that might be missing from their mobile version. Hidden content is also something to think about and how does JavaScript actually render some of these pages and what is it in the HTML? Are you even able to be crawl for it and ranked for it? And then thin content is also something to consider. That tends to be a problem when it comes to a lot of e-commerce sites where the content is very, very thin. And so it's very difficult to actually understand the difference between one PLP to the other. And then when we dive into internal linking, which is actually one of the most important things when it comes to e-commerce sites, I'll show a few examples based on different sites. So breadcrumbs, of course, is very important. And again, with that, what tends to happen is it might be really good on desktop, but then people might forget about it on mobile. Relevant links is another important example there. We saw the women blazers pages on ASOS do it by linking to sleeveless blazers. And then the content blocks. So here, I'm giving an example from the website I work on, which is Papier. This is their weekly meal planners page. And what we do is we tend to write content that's relevant to our PLPs. So for example, something along the lines of, well, how do you actually make the most out of your weekly meal planner or how to use it? And then we would internally link from the PLP within that content block to that specific block post. PLP cards is another way we do it, and it's really visually appealing. So within all of your products that are listed, we would add a PLP card, and that could go to either another PLP. In this case, for example, we link out to our recipe journals within our weekly meal planners because we feel those are relevant, those could be connected, and it makes sense to help drive users to something else that they might be looking for. So then the tech part, which is really what I'm gonna be focusing on for like the next 20 minutes or so. So filters can make or break an e-commerce website. And websites generally tend to have filters set up in one or two ways. So they either attempt to, index absolutely everything to capture as much ranking opportunity as possible, or they could decide, well, you know what, I'm just gonna no index a huge chunk because I really, really don't wanna suffer from index bloat. But if we attempt to index absolutely everything, then Google might not end up crawling all pages. They might not end up indexing all pages. Our valuable pages might not end up being crawled and or indexed, and our valuable pages might not even rank. So that's kind of out of the question. That's not something that we wanna go ahead and do. Well, what's gonna happen if we decide to no index a huge chunk? Well, we're probably gonna miss out on ranking for a lot of potential. So both options don't really work. And I guess the question that we're trying to get to is how and where do we draw the line? Now, where's the opportunity? If I look at all my different examples from Etsy and Papier and ASOS, these are all the different filters there. But when I say opportunity, I don't really mean search demand at this point because if you look at these two different examples, you know, the word dress or then the word maxi long sleeve dress.  But we all know which one is more likely to convert. Opportunity should be measured on conversion, not just on search demand. So the question then doesn't become which one has the most opportunity, it becomes which categories will more likely lead to users converting. And you know, in order to assess that, I now want us all to try to wear our customer insight hat. And it's okay, there's no pressure if you don't have one because to be honest, I don't have one either. But instead, what you can do is you can go ahead and you can speak to your customer team or you can speak to your CRO team, your conversion rate optimization team or you can speak to your data team or you can speak to your marketing team because they hold a lot of that data in their hand. And once you have the data, what you can do is you can sift through it to understand what's the user filter interaction look like and what are your most and least clicked filters and what are some of the internally searched terms that happen on your website that lead people to specific filtered PLPs and what are your high converting filters? And yes, it's okay. You can still look at search volume data. I'm not completely getting rid of it, but do not base your entire strategy around it because it is only one metric after all. And the thing is as SEOs, and this is something that took me a very long time to learn as well, this is where we tend to go wrong. We tend to look at data that we care about without really considering metrics that other teams care about. And again, to put it more accurately, we only look at data that we are measured on without considering metrics that any of the other teams are measured on. So I guess if you were to take one thing from this section, it would be to align yourself with metrics that other teams are measured on and then you're more likely to get their attention and their help. Okay, so let's go to the implementation part which is like the part that actually matters from all this. So if we were to dive deep again into our filters section and see what I've decided to do, we know that we wanna come up with certain rules that we should apply for the filters that we wanna surface. So if I were to give an example from Papier, we looked at all of our data and we found out that the two filters that actually matter, the ones that users convert for and also the ones that do have search demand happen to be color and style. So for one chosen filter, what I wanna do is I wanna generate an indexable URL. I wanna set a self-referring canonical tag. I wanna make sure that that URL is added to our XML site map and I want to make sure that I update our on-page meta tags to be reflective of that filter. So this should only apply when someone chooses one filter, not a combination of four than one. So if someone goes and picks a specific color or a specific style, this is when I should apply these rules. So what happens if someone goes ahead and picks a color and a style as a filter? So in this case, for more than one filter, what I want to make sure happens is the complete opposite. I want to generate an unindexable URLs. I want to make sure that that URL becomes disallowed in robots.txt. I wanna make sure that this URL is not included in the XML site map and there's no need at that point to update any of our on-page meta tags. And that same rule should be applied when I choose a filter that I do not want to surface. So in this example, designer. Designer is a filter for different people, designers who have designed certain products. I know that that's not something that leads people to converting very much and it's not something that has search demand. So in this case, for an unchosen filter, I'm gonna do the exact same as more than one filter. I'm going to generate an unindexable URL. I'm gonna make sure it's disallowed on robots.txt. I'm not gonna include it in the XML site map and I'm not gonna update my meta tag. So I love a flow chart and so if we wanna summarize that logic in a flow chart, this is what it looks like. This is what I'm gonna do to my filter rules. For one chosen filter, I'm gonna go ahead and make sure that what we just discussed gets applied, which is generating an indexable URL, having a self-referring canonical tag, making sure things are in the XML site map and updating our meta tag. And then for our other two rules, which is an unchosen filter or more than one filter, I'm gonna go ahead in the opposite route, which is making sure it's an unindexable URL, not having it in the XML site map, disallowing it and not updating our meta tags. So once I have that flow chart, that's basically what I deliver to my developers. I don't sit down and go through the whole brainstorming.  What they care about is that flow chart, because that's what they can go ahead and automate. Because automation is key, you're gonna have a lot of filters that come in and go out, but you need to make sure that you have that summarized and it's something that's sustainable and you need to make it future proof. So as long as we brief in the exact rules that need to be applied, at that point the implementation can easily be automated. But before we make any changes, we need to actually have a plan for measuring that change because if I go ahead and change that whole architecture and then I don't have a benchmark set, how am I supposed to even know if this was a successful rollout or if it didn't matter at all? So things that I did to set a benchmark were look at the current number of index pages. I wanted to check how we currently rank for filter keywords. What's the current organic traffic that comes to our product listing pages? And more importantly, which is the KPI that I'm being measured on, what's the organic revenue that comes to our PLPs? So what do I do after that? I actually get stuff implemented or I have a team who gets stuff implemented. And for anyone who's seen my talks before, they know that this is usually the part that I'm gonna tell you. I'm sorry, I have nothing to share. I spent a full year fighting for Dev resource. Nothing happened. Please take it away and do it yourself. But you know what? Even though this was quite a substantial architectural change, I have a plot twist to share. It was fully done in two sprints only. Yes? Yes. Yes. This never happens. We've all been doing SEO for so long. Recommendations do not get done in two sprints. But you know what? Welcome to the joy of SEO sitting in the tech team. So maybe if you take one thing from this talk, it's just get out of marketing, to be honest. But here's also a few things that I decided to do, just to be on the super safe side. I made sure that I tested everything in a staging environment. And I avoided a site-wide push. So we broke things into iterations. We have several markets and we initially only targeted the smaller traffic markets before going ahead and pushing it to the higher traffic market. And we had a rollback plan in place, just in case things go wrong. But I'm gonna be really honest with you. So I wasn't even sure, you know, I overthought whether I'm gonna keep the next slides in. But you know, here goes, hopefully I don't regret it. I overthought every single aspect about that filters recommendation before writing it in a ticket. It took me more sprints to write that ticket out than for it to actually get implemented. Because you know, I come from the world of aggregator websites. And over there, I'm used to de-indexing pages. What I tend to do is I say, we need to de-index a whole bunch of stuff. But this time around, what I was doing is I wanted to surface new filter categories. So this was gonna result in, you know, tens of thousands of pages potentially becoming indexed. And the idea just absolutely terrified me. Because, you know, things that I kind of thought of at that point was, what if something went wrong? And what if my recommendation was completely wrong? Maybe that wasn't the right way around it. And what if we ended up losing visibility, traffic, revenue? But to be really honest, like here's the point that really scared me. There is a difference between writing a ticket, knowing it's gonna be a while until it's picked up, and writing a ticket, knowing it's actually going to be in the next sprint. There is something that feels both exciting and terrifying about the idea that they're actually going to implement what I'm saying. And I don't know if thinking and feeling that could potentially make me a bad SEO. But I really hope that by being honest with you right now, it helps us all open up about these internal feelings that I hope I'm not the only one thinks. Okay, so the results. What really happened, and I'm gonna be honest here as well. So I'm gonna start with the good news. The rollout was a success. Everything functioned as expected, and nothing broke. Which you know, we're not used to seeing. I work with some really, really smart engineers to be honest, and they nailed the implementation. But I'm also gonna give credit to myself, which I tend to not do. You know, I did a very thorough job briefing in the recommendation. So what's the not so good news? Another plot twist coming up, and this one will not require any clapping. Nothing happened. No impact. None whatsoever. I have no shiny upward graph to show off. I wish I did. I waited for six months. Nothing happened. But why? What went wrong? We know the recommendation was spot on. So remember my whole brainstorming, this whole framework? I was so fixated on the filters part that I completely forgot everything else. My recommendation was spot on, but it was never gonna be enough to have an impact on its own. We need all this to work out. It's not enough to only focus on this bit. So I am used to working on websites that have over 10 million pages. So when you work on those websites, tech changes tend to have a massive impact. But this isn't necessarily gonna be the case on a very fresh, small e-commerce website that's pretty much tech debt-free. So in my discovery, I did plot out everything that needed to be done, but what I ended up doing is what we usually end up doing, which is focus on what I had most control on purely based on where I sat. Because just because I now sit in the tech team, it doesn't really mean that I have control over the full process. So the other parts of my recommendation, like they needed me to engage with the content team and the trading team and the marketing team, I should have made them a part of my strategy from the beginning. You know, I always spend a lot of time preaching the importance of prioritization with tech teams. Some of you might have seen some of my posts about this where I talk about the importance of getting tech implemented and how you need to prioritize based on their impact as well and their effort, but why didn't I end up doing the same with other teams? I think I kind of thought that because I now sit in the tech team that I haven't all figured out, but you're never in the perfect place and the grass isn't always greener where you are. SEO is so cross-functional and no one has properly figured out yet where it should sit. So we need to have these honest conversations to learn more about what's working and what's not working. And as a SEOs in general, we need to find a way to work well across teams. But also we have to share these learnings. Like you've kind of learned from me today some of the things that worked being part of the tech team and some of the things that didn't. So the more we share these as an industry, the more we can learn from each other and the more we can hopefully figure out a framework on where exactly SEO should sit. So I'm just gonna leave you with one final thought. So back in Moscow in 2019, I stood on this very, very stage and I told you that technical problems are people problems. And then last year, I talked to you through the virtual stage and I said that as SEOs, it is fundamental that we do not work in silos. So this year, I was hoping to let you know how important it is to dive deep into that one opportunity that will help you deliver value. But also it's really important to ensure that we actually do that cross-functionally. And our job isn't just about knowing SEO, it's about being effective. Thank you so much. Thank you.


I'm Joshua James with D First Science. We have Andrew Lister with the Teego Global and I'm really excited to talk to him today specifically about his career path and how he actually got into forensics and what he's working on now. So yeah, no, great. Thanks, Joshua. And as I mentioned, my name's Andy. I have a background in the military here in the UK and joined the Wolverine Commandos at 18 and graduated through to our reconnaissance, junior commanders, senior commanders and then graduated up from Black to our special forces selection for SAS, SBS. I guess how long, talked about your military experience. How long were you in the military and what kinds of work did you do specifically in the military? What kinds of work did you do related to forensics, let's say, through the military? But I think now it's the modern world, you know, gone are the days of the regular soldiers and even the special operations teams like the teams I was running with, not having some kind of digital capability, the ability to push forward and extract data and intelligence and indeed in a lot of cases, evidence from the devices you find, you know. And it used to be we'd go into new sort of special operations units that maybe aren't as far forward as luckily some of the key Western groups that we'd work with and instantly, you know, they've got a million skill sets already and they're asking questions or why do I need to do this digital side?  Is there any way you've deployed in the world where you do not come across computers, phones, thumbsticks, MacBooks, hard drives? And what do you do? Do you ignore them? Do you gather that really important quick J2 intelligence that is on target, on scene? Do you wait for it to go back to a lab to get lost in the melee or does that come forward? So all these things kind of evolved through the military. And I was lucky enough to hit the ground running coming from a reconnaissance troop and the Royal Marines and then into our special operations. And then four years in a cell that did the covert and over exploitation. So that's everything from the ability to be able to work with people that are giving us information, potentially force protection. So looking after our own staff, you maybe operate in a location where you're working away from everybody else and you have local nationals that are to some degree trusted but there's always an element of distrust there potentially. Can you quickly look across their digital devices just to see potentially is there, are they searching for a lot of the local terrorist organizations? Are they looking at information around your camp in more detail than they should be? So it's not always just what you think in regards to going out, facing down the enemy, quickly pulling data, getting the results back. It can quite often be just protecting yourselves as a small group. It can be on the covert side. So using tradecraft to enter hotels, houses, whatever it is in these permissive and non permissive environments really to gain that intelligence or evidence. So again, there is a big crossover now between what the military do in these certain circles and what the police do. So for that four year period, I ran a cell for the joint effects cell, the jet, or the exploitation side of it. That's MPE material, people and equipment exploitation. And that encompasses everything. So wet forensics, digital forensics, cyber, all these kind of pieces. The problem being, of course, military already have a million skill sets. It's not in most cases your day job. So you're then getting pushed in to go, okay, we need to give these guys, and in some cases, girls that go to some of these locations, the ability to do something that very quickly, very easily without that training burden. How do we do that? And the answer was go and get all the experts. So we went to GCHQ, we went to Cheltenham, we went to all the main agencies that do these kind of things, Scotland Yard, GCHQ, SO-15, which is the counter-terror police, all these different pieces. And we said, look, we know you've spent decades honing your skills, getting all this experience. And I know it's gonna be painful, but we need you just to give us the gold and nuggets right now, give us all the best pieces that you've learned to give us best effect forward. And that's where it started. So this all kind of started at that initial forward phase. Originally, it was bag and tag. So maybe some of you viewers are familiar with that old school going in, you may be on a location. There's a lot of digital evidence there, and it's getting swept in a bag. Those days in many ways have gone because the information you can gain rapidly in a lot of cases now is just so effective for us. Okay. Again, just because I think the military aspect is so different than maybe criminal or civil investigation, you mentioned a lot of different skills, you mentioned on scene or applying it to intelligence, counter-intelligence, local protection, all of these different things. Can you just break it down kind of as easy as possible? What would a relatively standard digital investigation for the military look like? It's a bag of dolly mixtures, and that's part of the magic really of the way that the military has grabbed the best of both. So it's gone to all these agencies and groups. It's gone to companies like ourselves and said, look, we can't individually learn these 10 tools to give us 100% of what we want. We don't have the time, the cognitive ability, we don't have the resources. Can you condense that and give us at least 80% of everything we require, but the training burden and skill fade is massively reduced. And clearly I now work for a commercial company. I use this technology damn range, not just at the frontline, but at a kind of fusion cell kind of sort of, that lab kind of effect. So a massive vested interest in making sure the technology does what it needs to do. Too many devices, too much data, not enough experts out there. So we're trying to bring something to the table that can assist that. In regards to a standard military, it depends on the group. So you might have more elite troops who are going in and maybe let's theoretically use Ukraine at the moment. You know, some of the fighters there might have found an individual come across them. That individual has a mobile on them, has a thumbstick on them, has a camera from doing surveillance and has an SD card in that or a drug. At that point, at that instant, that intelligence is just mind-blowingly critical. How it would have been done 10 years ago is all that would get bagged up. It might even be left in some cases and then it would eventually get sent back. Somebody would go, what do we do with this? It goes off to one agency and passes it to another. They find some key critical data are awesome. Well done guys. But that gets lost in the Chinese whispers, the communication chain takes ages. So we're trying to work out organic ways that organizations could have the technology and skills up front, but still feed all of the greater agencies that are SMEs, subject matter experts, specifically in those fields. So you're managing to cover up both sides. So at that point, you might have someone going forward and pulling that critical data off a phone or a device lifetime at the front end. You might be on another job and we have for about four years held a contract with a discrete US agency. They have all their tradecraft weighed off. Everything is legal, covert method of entry, all these kinds of pieces against bad actors across the globe really. And they add the technology to that. So that's being able to extract data and using the technology skills blended with their tradecraft in order to leave everything in situ how it was. So it doesn't ever look touched from a physical point of view or from a data digital point of view, but still pulling back the critical information. So there is no standard. You can go down pretty much every kind of avenue. The critical thing is, and rest assured that the vast majority of organizations now are grabbing this. They're realizing that when I first came into this in the military, we were blessed in the organization as if you sat at the top of the tree and if you requested something, you generally got it. But even in that field now, you're finding there's so much stress on anything related to cyber and digital. It's massive. So organizations, three letter agencies, whatever it is that may be supported you regularly can't because they're in flux doing their primary task, even though yours is a high value target. And then you find, well, hang on, what do we need? Well, we need some answers ourselves. So again, going back to that, having an organic capability in a bag that can be usable for the operators. So if I can kind of summarize this, coming from the criminal investigation perspective, it almost sounds like you had support labs, they were taking a long time to process the data and this is critical intelligence that you're trying to process. So you might find something, let's say on scene or in the field, and then that would need to be sent back and processed by your lab, but then that can take too long because it's potentially actionable intelligence. What I would call first responders, 80%, 90% of the way, and then given them tools that way they can actually respond in the field and start to collect and analyze data immediately. Is that essentially what I'm hearing? Okay. Absolutely, but going a step further than that, we have it with what's called like, let's call it level one, two and three. Level one would be that first responder, that incident responder that goes there, be it police or be it military and whatever fashion it is, and this is where the technology blends. We're currently working with likes of Pop Atom in the home office here for police officers to do similar to what SF did in the SF Special Forces in the manner that I was just describing there, but into homes managing serious sexual offenders. So it might have been where an officer goes in to manage a previous serious sexual offender and thinks that investigating for 20 years, the hair on the back of the neck goes up, something is not right here, but I'm not a digital expert and I'm not seeing anything else. So I'll report back to the lab and I'll ask for justification to seize the 24 devices in the home. The lab is already backlog by six months, sadly, because it's just overwhelmed, which is a common piece across all the world. And the user, the frontline police officer, then can't really do anything at that point. So we've started now adding that triage, blending the best of both, the quick intelligence investigation piece, but making it evidential and having clear, easy steps, in some case, patented technology from us. For those officers to be able to do that, get quick identification, yes, there is a list of material. Great, well, not great clearly, but great in the sense that we can bring justice. They can then remove those devices to the lab for further exploitation. And again, we've had so many, we work with counter-terror borders, we work with a lot of the ICAT community, internet crimes against children, CSAM, and so on. And everybody's loved that frontline rapid response, adding common sense with great digital technology and the boffins that sit in the cave doing all the development, they are awesome. But putting all that together, they loved on that frontline.  Use the same ethos and mentality because the digital tide is against us. As we said, too many devices, too much data, not enough individuals being able to process this. Can you do these profiles? Can you do these? So we blended all that into the lab side and now we've got some exciting lab technology that basically enables you to put job cues of 2030, different digital, high-level forensic examination techniques in a row, press a button and the technology, the complex under the hood, but is relatively easy on the front side. We can't reach experience. It also frees up the examiner to do the, let's call it the more difficult stuff that you can't. I assume that the tools that you're talking about, I mean, all this development is actually taking place in DTGO. Is that correct? Yeah, I'm here with DTGO, but as DTGO, we play really good. We like to think we're the good player in the market. We play nice in the playpen with other technologies. We import many of our competitors into our technology so that if a user already has multiple different tools, they can utilize some of our analytics that maybe other tools don't have, they can do link analysis, all this great stuff. But of course, yeah, I mean, DTGO is pioneering the way for this, mainly because it's been lucky enough to have that blend of what I call the best of both. It's had the blue and it's had the black, it's had the police and it's had the special ops and it's kind of mashed them all together and taken the best bits from each, gone, what can we learn for the greater good of each of those groups? And as a fallout, that works for borders, it works for corporate and it just depends how you want to utilize the technology. Of course, there's multiple other tools out there.  I think the Americans actually taught me that. One is none and two is one. Okay. There's not the one limited choice, that's why. Can you expand? You've talked a little bit about the products now and how they apply to industry, but can you talk about your role in DTGO and specifically how your military experience transfers to a private company? You touched on it a little bit, I think, but as somebody in digital forensics, if they're starting from a military background, like where do they go? How did they actually transfer those skills to another part of digital forensics sector or maybe even another industry altogether? Yeah, I think I was specifically lucky really because the government spends millions on the special operators globally in all the different units, wherever they are. So you do kind of have a very different career path to other individuals when you come out and again, it just, the stars aligned. So I've been using the technology, I'd actually been probably a great pain in the obvious for DTGO, constantly hitting them up, asking for changes in technology, coming up with issues that we were finding forward. I keep my security clearances. So talking in semi-veiled speech to try and go, oh, if I had this kind of problem, could you solve it without giving the game away completely? And they were really good at it. So when I came out, I got approached, there was an individual working for a discrete government aid or previous government agency and then working for the company, approached me and said, would you like to join? And I came in under special projects and sales and then over time just built up the history in the company, helped with the development, helped intrinsically with the developers themselves, although I can't code all the way through to the trainers and then the market inside. And it just exploded from there really and then became the director for sales and about five months ago, the managing director and obviously we've just rebranded and stuff as we sort of push our team forward. And did you have to, I mean, did your military experience like let you, like did you already have kind of knowledge about how all those aspects of the job worked through the military or is this like constant learning? Like how did you get those skills to be able to do all of these different things? It's constant learning, but the key pieces with, and this is a difficult one, there's a big veteran push out there in the UK and of course in the US and globally in pieces like this. And one of the biggest barriers to that for some individuals is not understanding that correlation between what you do in the military versus how that comes across in the private sector. It is extremely similar, just change your words. So, you know, it's like changing your suit.  It's that same kind of piece. And the skills that our individuals have from the military, because we're talking specifically about the military here, it's the same with police and other agencies and industries that they can bring across with just their communication, friendships, being able to utilize, I mean, let's not forget, it's people, people are key. You know, if you have great developers, great market in, great trainers, great sales individuals, all these different pieces, they're gonna fall down if they work in their own compartmented areas and don't gel well. And there is this great bond and piece through the military that I do think comes across when we come into that private sector. And of course, you're very used to working with massive organizations with multiple sensitive kind of commercial and government relationships built into that. So, yeah, I think it's the best of both, to be honest. It would just be brilliant for any veterans out there. Just take a bit of time, find a mentor, sit with someone regardless of whether it's digital, forensic, cyber, whatever it is, find someone. Most people are willing to help a little bit and just get a bit of a teaching on how, change your mind or not always change your mind, but pull across to how is everything that I did on that military side transferable and where are the areas where it's not. That is also important as well. But it's been a great journey for me, so far, so great. Yeah, I mean, I think not just military, anyone looking to get into digital forensics or switch what they're doing should be looking to get a mentor anyway. So I think that's a really excellent point. You talked a little bit about branding and advertising and I noticed I checked your website this morning and I saw the new DTGO Global logo. Like usually whenever there's a logo update or the site looks different, there's some reason behind it. Is this just something you wanted to do? Is there a reason? What is that about? Can you tell us a little bit? I think DTGO has been around for well over a decade and producing cutting-edge technology and initially we were this boutique British company that was working in the sensitive gray areas with special operations and others. And that kind of worked for us as a group because back then this technology was much more kind of a hush-hush but now everybody knows there's abilities to break encryption or be it hard in some cases, there's abilities to scan devices, you can pull back deleted data, all these different things are known. So that's no longer regarded as sensitive, it's when you blend that with other pieces. So that's kind of where we ended up with DTGO coming across that, so yeah. You've been talking about tools a little bit and applications to different areas, especially military but what, I guess, what does DTGO working on? What can we expect from you guys this year or coming up in the future? 100%, I mean, along with the rebranding that we've just gone through, I mean, clearly that was driven by Bud and the marketing team so a big shout out to the team that have done a fantastic job because we have now pushed from, like I say, that discrete little bubble that we were into a global powerhouse, multi-million-pound contracts with government agencies but we're sticking with that ethos where if you are the single-loan investigator in the small little force that is out wherever and whatever police department, we are answering the phone, we are taking in your concerns and we are working on that as well. So the company is staying flexible, agile and really trying to do the right thing. If I'm honest, if you look across everything that DTGO does now, it's got things like offline translation, photo DNA, AI, object detection for weapons, cars, nudity, in decent images, you had a symbology, right-wing symbology, there's link analysis, super fast, rapid imaging, nearly all of those things have come from client requests as opposed to just organically driven by us as a company. So we are driving forward like that. What we have noticed is that there's a large need within the forensic commercial community for these kind of technologies that face the same problems the police and the military have. So we've started pushing a lot of our technology across to the civil and corporate investigators. Of course, there's still some covert and sensitive sides that are not required, but on top of that, we've got a case management system. So that's quite new and that's still evolving. So that, again, across police forces, lining up the management of your forensic incidents, your workflows, having all your exhibits tracked and other parts that come into your investigations, automatic alerts and to really streamline that. And in fact, police forces have had that for a long time in different ways. What we're trying to do is make it easier, more flexible and built into the kind of the TGO workflow, if you like, whereas the military haven't done that quite so much. So we're actually bringing that part of the technology across to the military from the law enforcement side, which is great. On top of that, we've got endpoint monitoring. So that can be from, again, a commercial point of view, wanting to make sure that you're employing the right people, that there's no commercial espionage going on, pieces like espionage, it's endpoint as a person, not endpoint as in like a networked server somewhere. Correct. Well, endpoint as in a digital device, but that enables you obviously to monitor individuals and also overtly or covertly. So including, we're trying to help other countries that maybe are not as far forward in digital forensics and areas like that. And sadly, in a lot of these countries and areas, there is a higher rate of corruption, et cetera. Probably an argumentative fact there. And so also some of the clients that we have in these regions want some kind of security around being able to monitor to some degree what they do. Of course, it's a choice and sensitive piece of technology just because of the way that it can obviously be utilized, even remote acquisition now. So we did a great demo around Sweden with Magnus of H2 Consulting. We've been working over there for maybe eight years. We've never lost a client, never lost a client. We've always expanded over there or they've renewed our technology, which is great. But we were able to access a computer back in the UK or remotely acquire that and bring the evidence over at lifetime whilst in a short live in-person demonstration. Was that for internal investigations you're talking or? It's like a lot of these things. It depends how people want to use the technology. This specific piece was for internal investing. You're in company, you put it out on your multiple machines that are spread across the globe and rather than traveling to do all those pieces or having to have individually trained experts in the regions, you can remote in and do hopefully the vast majority of what you need to do without the need to physically take that time to go there. Okay, so you have basically a product suite for not only military law enforcement, but you're also expanding out to basically corporate investigations, internal audits, things like that. And then also bringing lessons learned from each of those back to, like you said, military. That's super interesting, okay. And then again, your experience in the military is going to inform a lot of that where I've been out in the field, I know what these guys are gonna need. That's great, okay, so we're kind of short on time. So I'm gonna ask another question specifically related to your work experience. What advice would you give students considering getting into information security and digital investigations? Well, I'd say round peg, round hole. So make sure is what you wanna be doing, make sure there's not been some weird veil pulled over your eyes that you're gonna be a jack power running around with something the size of a cigarette packet that can image. I don't know if they know, I don't know if students know what Jack Bauer is, so. Oh, am I that out of date and all? Well, let's go with James Bond, everybody knows James Bond, right? So I'd say just make sure that you know what it is you're getting into and that you definitely have, you've gotta love it, find the passion, not the job and the rest will come. And that's definitely what I found and within the military, and then sadly obviously got injured and lost my career there, but was blessed enough to fall into something that I've been doing for a couple of years and finding that the passion is still completely there. You know, I find it funny, eight years on in DiTigo and I'm away at some show like Techno Security and I'm talking to a police officer about their investigations and before you know it, 20 minutes has gone and I'm beaming and I'm talking about our patented technology and rapid imaging and they're like, wow, you still love this stuff. And I'm like, absolutely. The moment that goes, you've gotta start questioning everything. But going back to your other point, a mentor, having someone in there that can put an arm over you, direct you into a location, help you learn what you need to learn and just be a bit brave, reach out, you know, don't wait for it to come to you. Don't assume that you're not up to the task. Don't have that fear of failure or have it, but be brave, still step in, you know, imposter syndrome comes up a lot, I think for individuals getting there and get it cracked. The biggest thing I notice in my particular work environment that's changed over my tenure really is trying to help people with their initiative, trying to give them the tools to find the answers or at least when they hit a roadblock, not just sit there and go, oh yeah, I've hit a roadblock. Okay, maybe don't take the next step but think about it and come with a couple of colors courses of action for this is option one and two in my mind, what do you think? You know, and that makes such a huge difference in an organization. Digital or just commercial. Okay, so just to kind of summarize, first off, see if you love it, which kind of implies, you know, test out some things, see what's online, maybe look at the materials and if you're enjoying what you're studying, then keep with it, get a mentor and then that'll help you to actually find resources that you need and then get support in the direction to go. So we actually have a question from chat and it is, Andrew, do you ever get burned out from doing continuous learning and working with so many data tools, devices? If so, how do you deal with it? That is an awesome question.  You were then built up to be in that subject matter expert over a period of time and the first time we tried this, we did it the wrong way around. You've got, it's all a learning curve. So we went out and we got all the open source tools, we bought all the COTS tools, commercial off-the-shelf technology, we had access to all the government tools and we tried to learn them all, we tried to do it all and we became what's called combat effective, exactly as you were kind of asking there, cognitive overload, the ability for the organization to operate was just extremely limited. So we had to tune it down and go, okay, we want now just the best of three rather than having the technology there that lets just for the argument sake, say you could do 100% of everything, it's not possible for the human and for the organization to actually manage that because you'd have to know consistently how to use these 12, 15 tools. So what we wanted to do was take the mass amount of data and problems and solve those and then have a few specialists that could do the JTAB, the chip offer or the other like Mimusia kind of niche areas that everybody talks about and loves but actually really in most cases are a smaller part of your investigation overall is when you hit that wall and your biggest stream kind of pieces. In regards, so that helped us a lot with that kind of stress factors there. For me personally, yeah, it can be a problem but again, it's going back. We have a thing in the military where you go on an operational sort of ORM and it's like taking pots off the boil. So right now, if I'm super interested and I know there's a lot coming up that might be involved in one type of technology, you get yourself fully up to speed on that whilst keeping the others just on the bubble. So they're good. And all of a sudden, boom, something comes in on drones I would touch the drone in six months or great. Where's the manual? Where's the help videos? Where's those bits? Where's the SME? Can I quickly tap them up for a bit and pull that one back to the front? Get that one heated up and push it. And that's a military technique? It's probably across the board. It's not there. When you're hit with so many things, it's almost by default. You can't really do it many other ways because there's only so much you can do as any individual. We have a couple more questions. Andrew, do you have paid one-to-one coaching? I don't know what for, just coaching. Coaching is fantastic. So I have coaching, but generally the coaching is by my colleagues and friends. My partner actually, she works for the National Health Service as a learning development coach. So again, sometimes I do this all the time. I use people as a sort of like a checkerboard to go, am I miles off here? And that can even be in personal relationships with members of staff, obviously bearing in the sensitivities of things, but going, am I reading this completely wrong or am I wrong in doing this? Or how does this come across? Sometimes in those cases, I'll put stuff to the side and then go back to it, reread it and funnily enough, you look at it and go, yeah, no, that needs changing. So I was- I think they're asking for coaching from you, not whether you receive coaching. I'm afraid not. We as a company train and I am occasionally one of the trainers, depending on the style of opera or the style of the way our technology is going to be used. Now I keep all my clearances and stuff, but paid one-to-one, afraid not. It's just not enough hours in the day. I would love to, but I definitely feel like I can give you much more benefit helping my whole team work and giving them what they need to sort of take that forward. But we have all sorts of training courses from your basic digital forensics all the way through to and utilizing our patented technology and pieces like that, but thanks for the shout. That's really kind. We have one more question. So can you tell us how you started your way in forensic cybersecurity world? I think we kind of covered that with military, but is there any kind of last thing you'd like to say about going through the military first to begin in cybersecurity or digital forensics? Any final words for that? Lucky. Be lucky? Okay. It was awesome. I joined the round bowl round peg. So I joined the military because that's what I wanted to do and I loved it. I joined the Marines because I loved being in the UK, called the thinking soldier. It's the longest training in the Western world. I liked the reconnaissance aspect. So I went into that and then special forces and that just opens a whole plethora of different skill sets there with different agencies. So really lucky going that way. There are a lot of groups now within the military, the Royal Military Police or the military police in general are utilizing a lot of this kind of technology. The specific intelligence battalions are utilizing a lot of this technology, obviously special operations and pieces like that. So it is a great place to go in if you already love and want to do all those pieces. And once you've started that road, you can start veering off down these kind of speciality pieces, having a pension, having a great laugh, traveling the world. Obviously occasionally it has its downsides but that's the same with anything. Certainly in the world I've come from, it wasn't like a screamy, shouty kind of go do this, do that, very much a professional quiet operators way forward, which was just amazing. So really lucky and really blessed. Okay, great. So thank you so much. That's really all we have time for. Hi everyone. We have a quiz. Detigo kindly offered to provide some prizes. So if you fill out a little quiz about Detigo, about the tools and when you can use them in different forensic situations, then they will provide these prize packs. So that quiz is going to be open until this Friday. So if you're looking at it now, I will post the quiz link in the chat now. And Andrew, thank you so much for talking about us. It's super interesting hearing the military perspective and specifically how you got the skills in the military and how those are transferring over to the private sector. So really interesting. It was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining us. Nah, thanks very much Jocelyn. Thanks very much for everyone out there. Yeah.