And on behalf of Colonel Lloyd, I want to commend him for you. I'm cooler than where you've been, I know. We've tailored a course for you that I think will suit your needs. And hopefully, Wednesday I'll see you when you come back from the field with Colonel Lloyd, and hopefully we'll hit the target there. If we haven't, please give us some feedback on what you think the next class might need, and we'll adjust our course for you. Thank you. Well, welcome to the Northwest. I don't know if any of you have been up in this part of the country before. Is anybody from the state of Washington? Anybody? Oregon? Okay. We're going to arrive up in the field about 16, 30 hours this afternoon, somewhere about that time. Not a lot of daylight left. Certainly in the mountains the sun goes down quicker than it does around here. But you can simulate that that's the time that you suddenly found yourself on the ground. And you'll be broken up into four groups. Each group will have an instructor. And you'll be working with that instructor, and we're going to have some guided discussions, and we're going to do some problem-solving and organizing. And you're going to find out, and I have found out over years of survival training, that's really what survival is. It's problem-solving and organizing. Leadership comes in. You're going to find a lot of that, because you're not alone up there, you're going to have to work together. You will be able to cope with the situation. However, it's going to take some resources, namely knowledge, equipment, and what we call the will to survive. I define the will to survive for you. We talked about what you can use to strengthen your will to survive, and this is the most important thing.  In addition to that, realize your survivor's mission. Tap into something greater than you. Fear, hate, love, whatever it takes to tap, religion, whatever it takes to tap into, tap into it. In addition to that, maintaining and building a good physical fitness will help you strengthen your will to survive. Being prepared ahead of time. We talked about that. And then understanding how you react to each of these stresses. This will help you. Alright, the first thing with this Mark 13 flare. Does anybody know where it's packed or where it's located? It's going to be in your seat kit. How many of you folks fly with a vest? Do you fly with a vest on or just a seat kit?  Now, there's two ends of this flare. There's a day end and there's a night end. How do I identify the night end? This should be a quick review for you. Okay, things go bumpin' at night. And it's red. Tell you about halfway. Okay.  Go up in your right hand, 90 degrees and pull down. Ready? Go ahead. Now, see how it is in flaming? What you can do is kind of shake it a little bit or tap it on the ground if you're in water. You can go ahead and kind of submerge it in the water. Now realize, the paint upon the environment you're in, if you're in a real cold environment, the smoke's going to stay right on the ground. In this environment, it will raise a little bit because we have a little bit of heat. So, if it is a misfire, just wait three to five seconds, preferably five, and then you're set to get it. It takes about nine seconds to go to the entire height. So, load it in there, slightly into the wind. There you go. Keep your head down just a little bit so you don't feel that. Can you feel that it's working in a little bit? Okay. Okay, look where you're aiming. Pull down. There you go. Good job. That's pretty good. That's almost directly overhead. Nicely done. For the first time, that's pretty good. Okay, two others? Yes, sir. It's got a serious handle-power burn in it.  We need to get one of these. One of my skills ahead. We got spaghetti tonight. Ooh, what a deal. Okay? Are we all done? Are you just holding up the line? I'm just holding up the line. This is great. The most important thing, Leroy, keep your sleeping bag dry. Oh, a fiddle patch. A fiddle patch. I think that's her. All right, follow me. Zeus. Zeus. Come with us. That way. Follow back. There she comes. All right, let's go.  Yeah, you too. First of all, it is very easy to get disoriented out here. Okay? Turned around. So if you do happen to go walking off from your camp, please let your instructor know or at least take somebody with you. If you happen to fall down and get hurt, and we have had people get hurt out here worse, but I think last time we took on what, 10 stitches? From various reasons. We do have a medic, so if you do hurt yourself, if you get cuts, fall down and twist an ankle or something like that, please let your instructor know what happened. Just so that it can't get any worse. I think we've got some goggles out there. Does anybody have any questions? I think we've already got you broke down and basically we don't have any established camps out here. We're just going to kind of wander off. You're going to have to carry the stuff. If you have to make two trips, just kind of set it off to the side and you can come back in a little bit and get it.  Just kind of let you folks know we're kind of short on daylight right now, so we have our five basic needs, which we need to start meeting. If we were to start looking at them just real quick, we can start identifying them. We have health, which is just medical problems, protection from the environment, sustenance, and then making sure, you know, travel and recovery bring that a signal. We're going to kind of take this as an immediate action type of landing. We just hit, we have these basic needs before nighttime fall. Which of those needs do you think is most important right now before darkness comes? Okay, shelter, protection from the environment. Okay, now we're walking. Try to keep a little bit of distance between you and if you're going to go, if you've got branches on the trail, make sure you push them down make sure that you stay together. If someone's dropping something, help them out. They try to stay together. We don't want anybody to get lost out here. So make sure you can see the person in front of you. We got all seven, correct? Yep. Let's go. But I'd rather be safe than sorry, because if you pick up Giardia, I'd tell you what, it's not. So let's stay to the count of what we got. Then break into the group. Let's break up with two of them. We've got a better level. We've got a life raft. We've got a water bank there. There's the items you've got to work with. Decide if we're going to do individual or...  Oh, these are nice. Those are nice. Looks like we've got two. I had a question for you. Before we down all this water and have to wait for the purification tails, is this freeze dried stuff we have to add water to? No, those are already set to go. They're set to go. Big difference, because if you add water... You add water to lurps? Yeah, the long-range patrols you do. Well, I think those are all MREs. Okay. Are they making those anymore? I don't think they are. I haven't seen any new ones up for a long time. We could probably get an actual line if we need it. We have two lines. I have the engineering task of... Yeah, here's a long one that works. Okay. Great. Maybe you take off this part of it. Oh, you want to prop it up here, okay. We're not at that point yet. Let me finish getting one inside. But as far as the other basic protective need that we have here, and some people have asked about bears and that, it'd be a fire. You take a look at a fire and it does. It meets a whole lot of different needs. Probably one of the biggest needs for me, not necessarily that of the warmth, but that of the comfort and making me feel a little bit more at home. I know with that fire, the bears and everything else away from me. And that, to me, is important. Because you hear those things that go bump in the night and it does, it can keep you up and ruin a good night of sleep. I never used one of those things before. One of what things? Oh, the striker. Yeah. You ready? You're doing perfect. See how she's got the metal match aimed down into the tinder? That's what you want. You're directing the spark right into the tinder. You're going to get the heat of that spark and then go for it. We'll see how this goes. One more. One more time. Okay. Really pretty. There you go. Yeah, that worked. Okay. We're going to put our head toward this bigger tree. That sounds good, since there's a animal hole down here. I want to wake up with a frucky raccoon in my face. Just grab him on that. Grab him and kill him. I'm going to move your bear here. See how, if you use your watch to find north, you've got to know what time it is. Wait, we're going to make a list of them. You've got the shadow coming from there. Take the suns coming across. That will give us the most. Halfway between the hour hand and 12 is the south direction. See anybody bringing compass? Yeah, I brought a compass down here. If you want to check that, see how accurate that is. This is what we thought was south. Especially if you consider it's really 9 o'clock sometime. North should be over your left shoulder. Good. Use this somehow or another if you want to figure that into this. East-west should be this way. North should be this way. You're going to have to grab this one on your ankle, sir. They really did it twice. Why did they do it twice? Well, they left them open the first time. So it wouldn't be neat. Good. Very good. At least I did enough. These are the last few fingers on. Is it pork and beans? But they are good. It says bean compass. I've seen signs down in the highway. I stress that a little. Ground beef with spice sauce. Spice sauce. Mystery meat. That's what that went back. Beef diet with gravy. Sounds better all the time. Ham and chicken loaf. Bean component. Where's the filet mignon? Beef stew. Those are all good. Some are just better than others. Right. Yes, sir. Excuse us if we don't scrabble for it. Keeping this stuff. That's all the way. Peaches. Pears. Hey, what happened to my peaches I had earlier today? Oh, here you go. Here's the cheese spread for you. Oh, here's the beans. All right. Oh, here's the toilet paper. Want a brownie? Yeah. Okay. Oh, is that a brownie? That's a brownie. Oh, it's heavy. When you let that go. Okay. Explode. It's a very substantive brownie. By the way, do you see stuff in here that you don't want like the beverages and cocoa and stuff in there? Yeah, just throw it in there and that's what everybody wants. What's the big advantage of the shelter we had last night? This one right here? Yeah. That's just showing you how to use that parachute material. And it does give you a little bit more concealment. Actually, I'll show you to where you can almost close this off if you had a lot of insects and things of that sort flying around that are bothering you. Come over here. I did the same thing. It would be worth the t-shirt right now. The circle's on a cross. I'll get it for you real quick. I want to go back camp, you guys. You need to sew and stuff. Stuff till your heart's content. Realize. What steps do we get to do this afternoon? Maybe put out some snares. What should I ask? Snares, talk about medical. We'll discuss a little bit more water as far as global water. Firecraft will do another fire. There we go. But I can't get him. Oh, no, I didn't. I thought I had him. He was hanging on there for a long time. See, I didn't clean the water. You can hold that and pose for that camera. Okay. Yeah, these are the ones I caught down there all the stuff you were filming before. Before we head up, let's make sure all our water containers are filled up also. Seem to work pretty well, too. All right, 320. Nice sleep now? There you go. Time apart for two more. We have one more. Wow. Yeah, one more. You don't want to do it now. Three. There you go. Oh. And again, I'm kind of a lower percentile, so. But our terrace might have a little bit harder. You think so? Okay. Yeah. We're going to do that. We'll do that. We'll eat now. Or we'll start a fire, cook some up, eat it, and then make shelters and then have another meal. Whenever we want to. Good. Good. Sergeant Firmary, do you hear that? Okay. So where do you want to start the fires? Okay, well, we'll do them in here then. Now, are you getting it? Yeah. I don't know that anybody eats that. It's small. Dave, I'll try the peaches. Don't try the peaches. Peaches aren't bad if you add a little water in there. Let them breathe. You add it right into the package here? Yeah. That's what we're doing wrong. We're adding the peaches to the water and they're kind of dissolving. It's great. You'll like this. Totally awesome. Here we have some peaches. We have some peaches. We have some peaches. We have some peaches. We have some peaches. We have some peaches. Here we have some peaches. We get a lot of secondary burns. People pick their canteen cup out of the water or out of the fire.  Hey, how many guys did that last night? Did you guys heat up any water on the fire? Okay. You guys shake. I see some doubt out there. Okay. So you're going to want to be careful without reaching into the fire. Things like that. You don't want to prevent all that injury as all possible. What other kind of injuries could you have other than burns? Great. Okay. Before we get to that, let's talk about bleeding because that's probably going to be one thing you'll want to control. I'm going to wait until he gets about at the end of that meadow and I'm going to give him a hot mic. You got it on him? Yeah. Rescue, rescue, rescue. This is porcupine 0-1 alpha. Take heading 1-7-0. Are you hurt? Are you hurt? That's negative. No injuries. We just have another one. We have six survivors. Take heading 1-4-0. You can get a good vision on him. I feel it. He's behind those trees right there. Okay. He's coming straight at us. Move left. Move left. Rescue, rescue, rescue. Say again, please. Negative injuries. We have eight survivors. Continue to turn to 2-0-0. Roger, we have mirrors and reflective panel on the ground. Turn right. Turn right. You'll be overhead my position at my mark. Ready, ready, mark. The helicopter to make up there, we probably wouldn't really notice it down here. If it makes you feel better and you're comfortable doing it, then do it. That's my critique to you. Everybody did an outstanding job. Did you get the helicopter overhead? You did a good job. If it's five degrees that you want to correct them, you do five degrees and correct them. If it's left turn or right turn like you were doing, then that's fine. Do it. Whatever works for you. It is flipping off. Everybody will have some good stories to tell about that, I'm sure. Some folks... Feedback, I got some folks slept pretty darn good. Yeah, must have been.  We've had a pretty good time. Right? Somebody tell me one time if you're not having a good time at what you're doing and you're probably not doing it right. And I think there's a lot to that. But to seriously think about the possibility of ever having to put to use what we've been talking about in the last couple of days. Consider that ejecting from a T-38 is going to be a pretty harrowing experience. Depending on your altitude, there may be some freefall involved. The automatic timer is set to open at 14,000 feet. You're going to operate a parachute. You maybe have never done that before. Find yourself on the ground. You're going to be in shock, guaranteed. Nobody goes through something like that and doesn't come out of it and says, well, phew, I'm glad that's over and walks away from it. You're going to be in shock. Statistics show that you're going to... chances are there will be some sort of an injury. And then you're going to have to deal with it from there. To try to make the decisions that you need to make at that point in time without giving any thought to the situation ahead. You'll remember this. And hopefully a lot of the stuff that we've passed on to you will be something that will be something that you can grab on to and will get you through. So much for survival.


Welcome to a special edition of Yes, We're Here, enjoy here once again and today I'm delighted to be joined by Robbie Russell, Dr. Robbie Russell, first-year ER resident in the University of Virginia Medical System. For those who don't know, Robbie Russell is a former Champions League and Major League Soccer player He's now fighting this deadly virus. Now Robbie, thank you so much for joining us first and foremost Thank you for everything you are doing during this very difficult time I've got to be honest with you Robbie. I don't know where to even begin with this discussion with you I mean, what are you seeing day in and day out at this moment in time in the ER room? Well first, thanks for having me Ian It's great to be reconnected again in different forms and professional atmosphere Right now, I mean, you know Virginia itself is We're a little bit more rural in the area that we serve and so We are kind of anticipating what's coming And I think right now we're doing the best we can to kind of prepare And and that's what you know all our administration and the hospital has kind of been informing us Day in and day out that they're trying to prepare they're looking at the latest evidence and trying to get us ready as well as they can But you know as of this moment, I think we aren't necessarily in the middle of our surge yet In terms of like number infections that sort of thing. And so we're just doing the best we can As doctors and you know as a hospital And you know personally each one of us is trying to kind of just mentally prepare for what's to come How bad is this Robbie? I mean when someone walks in through your doors. They think they have COVID-19 I mean, what are you looking at when they walk in through the door? I mean personally for me, it's it's one of those things where you don't know what's coming through the door One of the things that drew me to emergency medicine was the fact that you know, you didn't know what you were going to face every day This is a unique situation. I think it's something that you know, our generation is the first to see something like this There's some older people in our generations that have experienced kind of viruses pandemic to polio outbreak that sort of thing But in terms of our generation, this is it And so for us, this is all new this is all extremely scary I was talking to another physician earlier today who said he likened it to like the HIV scare When HIV was first coming out and it was HTL of lb3 They had that same sense of you don't know how you pass it. You know how you get it We're much more informed now, but this is a much more infectious virus And so it's scary but I think that's what is so admirable about people in health care and Physicians and nurses and all the people that kind of go to work every day in these type of environments because their main goal was to help people And to help people at their worst You know Situations the worst, you know sicknesses they can face and it's really amazing to kind of be standing next to people that are doing that You've been away from your family now for six weeks and how difficult has that been for you? Of course professionally, it's the right decision to be made It's one of those where I feel fine. I'm healthy right now, you know knock on wood And it's it's tough every day.  That's a high risk Not because of my age not because of like my other health Concerns but because of the fact that I am seeing infectious people in the ED I mean, I don't know what I would bring home. So I I feel like it's the right decision I hope it's the right decision. I think medically and the science backs up that it is the right decision But emotionally it's tough I know it's very difficult, of course not having your kids there But for you, I mean now you just basically just completely tuned in like you would be when you're playing a professional soccer game Nothing else really matters. You're focused on the issue at hand. No, I mean, you can't be that focused that That that consistently that long, you know when when you go to work That's when you try and turn it on but you're working long hours And so you have to have balance you have to have like I can handle this But at the same time be kind of doing other things I have to be able to balance things and so, you know, it's just like you going to work Like if your kid runs into the room right now, you know, and is like distracting behind camera Like you can focus but it's also kind of funny and you enjoy having your kids in the background You know, and so you try and kind of remember that all the time is that, you know Whenever the wife calls and you're in the middle of something you got to be able to switch gears and say listen I'd rather talk to my wife right now Then kind of completely focus on this thing, but it's a balancing act and you do the best you can And I think everyone in every kind of professional field kind of deals with that Yeah, it's admirable what you're doing Robin Of course, we know each other on personal terms having played together in the same soccer team And now what I'm watching you from the outside I mean, it's amazing what you've gone through to get to the stage to where you're at right now I'm incredibly proud of you now, New York is is an area that's been hit drastically with this issue I mean, what sort of advice can you give, you know, our viewers out there who we watching this, you know Is there any advice you could even give except for staying in isolation listen to the rules and regulations and wash properly? I mean, honestly, those those are our best evidence-based guidelines The idea this is like an ever-evolving kind of understanding of a new illness And those guidelines are changing every day. So it's not just follow the rules It's keep up with how the rules are changing and yes one day the rules might say do this and the next day They're saying do something different But the idea being is that we're adjusting the rules as new evidence and new research comes out because we've just started kind of You know the tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding this disease and so, you know as we get game more understanding Things are going to change. So my biggest advice isn't just to follow the rules It's keep up with the changes that are coming Yeah, great advice. Okay. Let's turn it on to a bit of a more positive note We went from professional soccer player into medic how difficult a transition was that for you because I saw you on the team Boss on the plane reading books studying up and that must have been a difficult transition for you because you were Living a very comfortable life as a professional soccer player and all of a sudden you're back to the classroom Is there a day that goes by that? I don't wish that maybe I was back in the locker room or back probably not no, but It was I'm not gonna say it was an easy transition because it wasn't You know after being out of school for 14 years Going back hitting the books again kind of relearning a new career, you know new skills. It's it's it's not easy Especially when everyone around you is 10 to 15 years younger than you are It it you feel like the old guy that's like showing up at the you know, the frat party doing like hey You know and real awkward, but You occasionally get it, you know mistaken for the the old attending in the room when you're actually just another intern but you know it it's one of those things where I Definitely rediscovered a passion for something after I left football and I think that was the biggest thing I was grateful for because I just like any one of us that makes a transition from that lifestyle like you don't know That same level of passion unless you find it, you know, and it kind of got thrown at us and we were lucky to have it so early But as you get older refind rediscovering a passion for something new is like the biggest gift you can have and so I'm just really lucky. I got you know, something else that I really wanted to do. It just took me a really long time to get there But it's nice to be finally doing it now Do you miss the locker room that feeling of having a quiet teammate like myself sitting next to you in that locker room not making But one of the reasons it was so difficult for me to make the transitions every time I was reading a book in the locker and you come grab it throw it in the hot tub So thank you for that Well, I said I can't tell you how proud I am and I know we've lived through some great experiences on the field And now watching you go through this off the field and all the hard work is really paying off for you And so many people are proud of you. Thank you for everything you're doing Thank you for everything you're continuing to do and again Thank you so much for the time today to be able to have a minute to chat with you I appreciate it joy and I really want to say thank you too, man. Just watching your career develop You are you're a fantastic announcer, man. You make the game fun And I love watching you even when I confuse you with other people. It's great But no, honestly, dude, you really brought this game forward in terms of viewership in terms of enjoying how to watch football And I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much Robbie. Thanks for saying so and I've got to admit before I leave You still have a face for radio Amazing you do too, but you made it work. So it's cool. I love you buddy Take care look after yourself and God bless to the family as well. Thanks your boy


So my name is Doug Sheppman. I'm a spokesperson for the Denver Police Department. My last name is spelled S-C-H-E-P-N-A-N. Let me preface this by saying that we're in the early stages of this investigation. 242 this afternoon we received a report of a shooting inside of 1536 Winecoupe Street in downtown Denver. Officers were able to quickly enter the building. Officers encountered suspect who was already down from a possible self-inflicted gunshot wound. And he was pronounced deceased on the scene. Officers were also able to locate one gunshot victim. She was an adult female. She was transported to the hospital with multiple gunshot wounds and is currently in critical condition at the hospital. The preliminary investigation indicates that the victim was targeted, that this was not a random shooting. And we are currently working to determine the relationship or the connection between the suspect and the victim at this time. The building was cleared floor by floor, office by office, and no additional threats were located in the building.


Si sicrhau i Feithio Le ledaun literadau a bobl andflyde ahwg a holl warriordi leidio i Peithio Llyfrgell o Gynixu, ac eich sydd oes fathigio my doncio cy restingar. Derek Mackay? Firstly, I should make very clear that this process being carried out by Argyll and Bute Council does not affect our own public service obligation routes, where we will be increasing frequency on the Glasgow to Baratairy Cambotine routes from October following discussions with the communities concerned. We will also take the delivery of the first of our two new aircraft for these routes this Thursday. In respect of the services that operate within Argyll and Bute, transport Scotland officials have spoken with both the council and Hebridean air services. We understand both parties have reached satisfactory compromises on a number of points but have not yet reached a final agreement. I am informed in the absence of an agreement, the current operator Hebridean had to suspend ticket sales for flights after the end of the current contract period. Although the council indicated on Saturday that they would run a new tender exercise, I understand that they are still exploring options that would avoid that and avoid any break in services. I know that both parties recognise the lifeline nature of those services and I hope and urge that they can reach an agreement shortly. Mr Russell? Thank you, Presiding Officer. The minister will know that this is a totally unnecessary dispute and I am reassured by your answer in which I know that Hebridean air services are keen to continue negotiating but the council issued what can only be described as an inflammatory press release on Saturday announcing a new tender process. Is the minister aware that there is recently a 7 April? The Hebridean air services is named as the preferred bidder with a full mark score for pricing. On 24 April, the council said that it was looking forward to a mutually agreed solution. How could it be that Argyll and Bute Council on Friday afternoon at 4.45 issues an email to the company that introduces new conditions and refused to accept the tender, given that the service had to be suspended on 2 April by European law? Was that a reasonable and responsible thing for any council to do given the lifeline nature of those services? As with any procurement process, the council must operate within the law. It must also consider any potential state aid implications with subsidies of this nature. Ultimately, the council needs to decide a course of action weighing up that advice and the benefits that those services bring to remote communities. Essentially, it is a judgment call for them taking all factors into account. I totally appreciate Michael Russell's concern in this matter, who has raised it with me and I have had a conversation with the council leader and the chief executive. It would have been wrong for me to interfere with a procurement process, but I think that Mr Russell is absolutely right to urge an urgent and satisfactory resolution so that the communities that are concerned are not adversely affected. My understanding is, as is later today, that it appears that we are getting closer to agreement, and that being the case, I think that we would all urge Argyll and Bute Council and Hebridean services to reach that resolution and satisfy the local community. The gap between the parties is £43,000 on a tender worth £700,000, the price of which has remained unchanged since 2011. There is a solution in place. It is not affected by states' aids, which is a Harry Potter-type spell that Argyll i Bute council keeps waving whenever anybody challenges them. I would ask the minister to, if he could, ensure that his officials, particularly officials from Transport Scotland, play a positive role in helping Argyll and Bute Council to where they should be at the negotiating table and ensuring that the matter is resolved before the withdrawal takes place. I am more than happy to agree to that intervention and had said to the leader of the council and the chief executive last week that, if our officials in Transport Scotland could assist, not prejudicing any procurement exercise, I would be content for that to be the case. I will once again offer civil servants and officials support to be as proactive as possible, indeed brokerage, if that is so required. We have two members who wish to ask a supplementary question. I say to both the members that the question is about secure lifeline flights from Oben to the islands of Collinsley, Coll and Tyree, and provided that is what your supplementary question is, I am happy to call you, David Stewart. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I fully share Mr Russell's concerns. Will the minister confirm that, if a PSO is not used for 12 months, it lapses? Will the minister ask his officials and Argyll and Bute Council to investigate the use of the regional air connectivity fund, which has helped routes in the hands and islands previously? Does the minister share my view that a new European Commission compliant route development fund will help lifeline services in the future? Of course, I am more than happy to explore all of those points and give you more detail, but, if I am frank about the matter, I suspect that that is more to do with a negotiating process than any other technical matter. However, I think that there is a better way to handle such a procurement exercise. I think that, through how we have handled our procurement exercise, we have certainly learned lessons in the past. This is out with our control and this is about the end of the negotiation. I am more than happy to get back to Mr Stewart with more detail in the areas that he has touched on in his question. I wonder if the minister is aware that hebridean air services use a different kind of fuel for the aircraft from almost all air services in Scotland. Only Orkney and Shetland use similar fuel and only they pay duty on that fuel. All other air services do not. That is probably a five-figure sum per year for hybrid air services. Will he raise the anomaly with UK ministers next time he has the opportunity to talk to them so that the field is levelled a little bit for hybrid air services and, indeed, Orkney and Shetland? I can confirm to the chamber that I was not aware of the fuel specification and do not have the information that he requires to hand. Therefore, I am happy to take it away and to supply further information to the member. We now move to the next site of business, which is a debate on motion number 13046, in the name of Mark Griffin, on the British Sign Language Scotland Bill. Members may wish to note that British Sign Language interpreters are present in the chamber and will be signing the debate. Members will also wish to note that the Parliament today received an award from action on hearing loss for a charter mark, which is a nationally recognised accreditation for organisations that offer excellent levels of service and accessibility for people who are deaf or have hearing loss. I call Mark Griffin to speak to you and move the motion. Mr Griffin, 14 minutes.


Well, if you're watching this recording, we are doing the first part of the public retrospective for Google Summer of Court 2020. Just to clarify, we are doing public retrospective for the organization. For projects, we recommend all teams to have their own retrospectives. Yeah, we know that many teams have already done that. And this feedback is most like private. But for organization level, we'd rather prefer to have a public retrospective. For that, we have sent a form where everyone could provide feedback. And if you haven't done it yet, please do so. It takes maybe 10 to 15 minutes. And it will be much appreciated. Today, the plan is not to finish the form, but just to go through feedback we have already received and get feedback from participants of this call. And mostly to discuss what would be improved and what we would like to change. So before we begin, I suggest that those who haven't submitted feedback yet speak a bit about key highlights. So we have a number of students who participated, but if you could, it would be appreciated if you just share what's your impression, what are the main advantages of JISO, what were the biggest changes for you? Photoshop, would you define if it starts from you? Yes, I'll make sure. So I think what I've written here, so if you see the last, the highly active community point, that is what I wrote as a key highlight for me. So one of the first impression I got was, which is very important for me personally, is that money is not the driving factor for someone to work or to contribute to something for a project for such a large scale. When I saw the amount of time my mentors in general, the Jenkins community, the people they give within this community, for my project, the technical advice I was being given and the time they've been provided, that personally is really motivating for me to do this in future. Because I personally was not aware of how open source community works, what is the motivation behind a person to contribute in an open source project. And I think I've learned a lot in terms of the reasons why someone would do that. And I think that's a great thing, that was a great thing for me. The second highlight would be the blogs. While I was doing the project, I was not, I would say I would be honest, I was for the first phase and the second phase, I didn't consider the blogs as important as the coding or the research tasks I had during the phase. But as I was ending the nearing the end of the project and I was writing my final blog, I realized that there is no point of developing two or three features which you send to the production. And if you're not able to present them in an easy or compact manner to people who do not have the time to go through your code or to the developments you've done throughout the three months. So what I want to say is writing a blog is a great way to reflect on whatever you've done in each phase. And it's a great way for other people to understand what you've done because what you're trying to do through writing that blog is to provide an abstract concept of what you've done throughout that phase. And actually, that's a difficult task when you've been trying to solve a complex problem and you start writing a blog. It's actually, it's a challenging task to make the complex concept simple enough so that people who do not have maybe more than a minute to understand what you're doing and be impressed about what you maybe impressed enough to actually look and use what you want to provide to the user. So I think it's a very what I as a suggestion for mice, it was the suggestion for myself and I think for the future students is that they should not start writing the blog before maybe two or three days of the deadline. They should do that before the week. The mentors should get a draft of it. They should review it first. And it should be as important as the coding task, although it's not required by Google. It's a great, I think it's a great addition by the Jenkins community. But it should be, the weight provided to the, to that task should be equal to the weight we provide to the coding tasks in each phase. Yeah. Yeah. And what were the biggest challenges for you? Okay, biggest challenge for me was to actually plan how to, so in my project, what was difficult for me was that it was not straightforward coding tasks we could design. It was not just designing a feature and then delivering it to production. Before that, we had a significant amount of research we had to do to understand, so my project was performance improvements in Git plugin. So to improve performance, we first needed to find areas where we could improve the performance. So now, doing that planning for the whole, this whole project, it was difficult for me because I could not gauge the amount of time it would take for me to research or to explore time I would take in the exploration to find an area within the Git plugin where I could improve the performance. So I would say I was not, I was not sure, at least during phase one, how much amount of time I should give to the spikes which we use in the agile methodology that we're basically researching the, if we do not have a time frame for those tasks, balancing that with the coding tasks was a difficult aspect for me within the project. And then the second thing which was challenging for me was to take the code from my personal ID to production. I did not, I think I did not estimate that the process would take much more time, especially for a plugin which is used, which has such a wide audience that it's planning to just release a single feature is, requires much more, I would say, the developer should be much more informed before even planning the feature that how much time it would take to deliver it to production. So knowing those two things, not knowing, but maybe I could have done better in those two frontiers planning and it's basically planning. Yes. So how would you expect to understand that before the project starts? So what would you be in anticipation for this information when should we discover the server heads and plan for them? Okay. So you're asking, so this is in particular to the application phase? Yes. So for you, it's application phase, right? Yes. Actually, when I was, whatever I'm saying, I was saying it in perspective of the whole in general GESOC project, not because of course, I think before while writing the proposal or before doing the project, it would be difficult to understand how much time it would take for a student to write a code and to take it to production. But maybe I would say, I'm not sure if it's something which is necessary, but if there was maybe like a cautionary advice from the mentor that okay, since the project you're about to start, it has a huge, we're responsible for a huge user base. Whatever you plan to do, just make sure that the features you're planning, if the amount of time it's going to take to write it to code it and then to test it and then to release it is is considerable. So count that time when you're thinking about doing ambitious, maybe thinking about doing ambitious features or it just would be, it would make sure that the proposal or the after the proposal planning is better. Yes, I'm not sure if this is something which could be generalized. I'm not sure if this was the experience for everyone within the project. This is my personal view for the project. It's definitely valid and it's definitely something to be in the process because here's student guidelines, presentations to students, inputs during phrases. Yeah, that's why we do retrospectively because even if we do act on that too much, probably it's something that needs to be documented explicitly. So that students see that when they prepare or when the teams see that when they do planning during community bonding. Because for me, during application phase it's great to know that but the only way to actually know that is to try out submitting some pull requests and looking at how it proceeds. And that's definitely during community bonding when all the team works together, mentors have experience about operating within a particular component. And yeah, doing adjustments for the plan during community bonding phase. I like your suggestion for community bonding, particularly before we show that probably would have been a very healthy place for us to assure that we did a good job as mentors of reviewing during community bonding. That was a time when I felt like I was not as effective at reviewing as I should have been. And so that would have been that would have been a place where we could have done a better job planning by more active reviews during community bonding of every change that's being proposed and getting it all the way to production. Yeah, so our expectation, yeah, so I just opened out the quotation. But yeah, this is something, well, so what we have, we continue to discuss and plan the project with community and mentors for the bank objectives, patients define the project plan, etc. But yeah, maybe something like adjust the plan to the project's goals of engagement or something like that would be reasonable here. Because there certainly are Google Summer of Code projects, which were in lower demand in terms of what it takes to get to production, right? So there's a varying thing, varying level of difficulty there. Yeah, so, yeah, so I just might suggest detection, maybe you can follow up on, but it's mostly to demonstrate how we would be processing that. Yeah, we have spent considerable time to review this particular item, but I think it's important to demonstrate how we usually handle it in retrospective. So next, you will be reviewing this action items based on feedback and see what exactly the schedule will create tasks and hopefully it will be reflected for the next year. Okay, I suggest to move on. So, Kezhe, would you like to share your feedback? Okay, yes, I'd love to. So, where should I start from the highlights? Yeah, okay. I think the first highlight is about the mentors. We have more than one mentors for each project. And I think from different mentors, I can learn different things like the team has taught me a lot about how to manage this project from a view as a manager of this project, not just a programmer. And he encourages me to do a lot of other rich things like doing a meetup and helps me deploy the plugin to the set.genkins.io. I think those things just helps me not only the whole process to manage a software during its life circle. And from Wooly, I just learned how to, he taught me many tools as a student in SS tools and taught me many principles on how to build a robust a bug software with less bug. And so I think mentors just taught me from different views. And I think the second part is in Jenkins during the Google Summer code, we can see that our product, our deliverable has rarely been used by other users. Like I have seen some users start using my plugins and I give some feedbacks as issues are in progress. And I can see there are some installations growing every month. So I think this encourages me to contribute more in open source and gives me more confidence. And I think that's important for a green hand at this in the industry. It's the highlights I can think about now. Thank you. And what are the main challenges for you? Well, the challenges, but I think the first one is the languages, but I think this more personal issue than the community. And so, and the second one is I think we have many, and we have many documents about the details. Like we have documents for our even extension point, how to write a plugin and such kind of things. But I think it would be helpful if we have some like top level design documents. And just like we did in community bonding and we wrote some top level architecture document. And I think if we can, if Jenkins could provide such documents, it would be helpful for the green hand in Jenkins. And I remember when I was first Jenkins, I read, I get to know those things from some YouTubers from third party pages, but not from the Jenkins official site. So I think the top level architecture document or even just some object graphs are useful. Thank you. Thanks for that. Any other obstacles you experienced? Currently, I don't have other challenges, but can we just add up the other challenges if I can came up with them after the meeting? Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Again, we are just starting. So this will be an eventful process. And when I say two weeks, it's a rather wishful thinking. Okay, moving on then. So meet, would you like to share something? Yeah, just to, okay, so key highlights with respect to my entire project or so like key highlights with respect to what Kulio, please? Well, we had a target on a feedback for your experience of interact with organization during JSOC. So again, the key highlights of my project basically, right? Okay. Of your experience with the project, let's say so. Okay. So if I start off with the community, I think one of the biggest highlights, one of the biggest advantages of Jenkins was I think a really great community. So that's been mentioned before, but I'd like to reiterate that. The team I got with respect to mentors and with respect to even other contributors who were helping on during the entire course of the project was awesome. So I was getting good code reviews. We were having very interesting design discussions during our bi-weekly meetings. So that was amazing. Understanding my basically getting to learn better coding practices and actually being convinced that, okay, this design is the best for our best solution for our problem. So that was really nice. We were able to follow our timeline really well. So that was also something, I think, that was another highlight. We were able to deliver the changes that we had proposed to the community on time. So that was a good highlight, I think. And I think I would be just repeating the things we discussed in our retrospective meeting. I think we mentioned everything over there also. The retrospective we had for our project. So yeah, I think only positive things from my side. I think a plus one on everything that others mentioned. So yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We also had a hackfest. That was nice. So hackfest was awesome. Yeah, writing, getting to it. So yeah. So I think with the blogs that I should mention, it actually, I think in the future also now I have something solid that I can go back to and see what my thought process was back then and have something for myself. So those blogs are amazing for the community also, for me also personally. And so blogs also and those videos that we made during our presentations. So that was really nice, I think that we did. So the org admins decided to take forward. So that was really nice. I think even GSOC office hours were being held. So I think I attended a few of them, but that was really nice to see if anything was going wrong or something. So I knew that there was a GSOC office hours happening every week. So that was also nice. I think I missed maybe a thousand things. But yeah, that's fine. Again, if you see something feel free to it. And yeah, of course, it's important. And what for any I can get. And what were the challenges for you? The biggest challenge is, I think okay, so I think we pretty much know that adoption was a challenge at least for my project particularly. And I think one and it was not a challenge, but I think much of a learning experience for me that I had to, you know, so we created the JEP also. So I had to, you know, get community support behind it. So our design decisions and documents had to be really well planned. So that's maybe a challenge, but also something I learned a lot from. So I'm not sure if by challenge, you mean something that we need to change in the future. So if that is the case, then maybe not at this point, but in a good way challenge, then of course this, yeah. Okay, let's note it a little bit. Okay. Yeah. So from your point of view, in the future years, does it make sense to do such projects which involve a lot of hardcore changes and hence create challenges for adoption? Would you advise to do them or would you advise to focus on something else instead? So, I mean, I think, so I don't think that's, yeah, I don't think that's a wrong thing.  I mean, it was something that was required and I think we should keep doing, I think yes, definitely. We should architecture focus projects, yes. So do you mean like changes to Jenkins core? So that's what you had in mind? So there is a case when a project has significant community value, especially strategically, like changing architecture, but at the same time, it is most likely to have challenges during adoption and during the feedback cycle during the project. So basically, for example, Kasia was working on GitHub checks and they were able to facilitate feedback really quickly, but an external fingerprint storage was quite opposite, mostly due to the project specifics, though it also has a quite high community value. I think so the two things you mentioned first was changes architecturally. I think that is a good thing because that gets people to understand Jenkins core as well. So I think we know that, getting contributors there also is one of the challenges. So I think that is a good thing. As far as adoption, at least my understanding is it may be a bit hard to predict it beforehand. I think that may be the case. So I'm not sure if you can really say at the start that how would an adoption you are going to get? So Well, in some cases, it's possible to predict that adoption will be relatively low. Right. Because the deliverables which can be shipped to users quickly and which can generate a lot of excitement like resolving a particular problem, say providing integration for machine learning or GitHub checks, and which are user-facing. There might be features which face administrators, for example, Windows services, and there might be features which actually are focused on architecture and it will take a while until it gets to users. So for example, we created external fingerprint storage, assuming that somebody creates a plugin which heavily relies on traceability and observability of items in Jenkins. It will be really useful to users, but it will take a while until it gets to users. It's not something which can happen in three months. All of that is still valid types of the project. So for me, I rather self-question whether such kind of project is ideal for JSOC. So I think I would say yes, but yeah. So I think you need to put proper disclaimers such as maybe something like that. Danger, it's hardcore project. Okay. Anything else from you, Sumit? That would be it. If anything, I'll add to the document later. Mark, would you like to add something for highlights and challenges? Or we can process mentor feedback later and focus more on student feedback? I like focusing on student feedback and my comments are actually already in the document from answering the survey. So yeah, let's focus on students. Okay. Then we could talk about application phase. So from your point of view, what could we improve and what changes would you suggest for the next year? So what we got as feedback that maybe we should do October first to get students familiar with the code base and projects and attachment for plugins to fit additional complexity. I'm not sure who provided this feedback. That was one from Rishabh and from me. I think I'm the one who actually wrote the text, but Rishabh had to change Git Client and Git Plugin both under control of the mentors, but also needed to submit pull requests to the GitHub branch source, the GitLab branch source, and that was a complexity we could have predicted from the beginning had we thought about it, but we just didn't think enough about it. So it was predictable. We just missed the fact that a multi-component project will be more challenging than a project that is changing only one component. It happens quite often. So sometimes we can call it collateral benefit. So for example, if we change something and we see an opportunity to improve something nearby, for example, submitting a patch to upstream library or upstream component or drinker score, it's definitely an advantage. So sometimes it complicates deliverables if your committed project deliverables depend on that. So we experienced it a few times, though we were largely able to predict such changes. But again, I think it's subject for community bonding. So for example, a good refinement scope of changes. Right. And I think that that is a good one that would have been fit well in the community bonding if we thought more carefully about, oh, this is going to happen this way and this way and this way. Had we done a better job of predicting the future, we probably would have had a better experience on actually arriving at the future. Okay. So we can add something like that. Okay. Any additional items we could improve, especially questions to students? So all students on the call contributed during the application phase. So if there is anything we could do to improve your experience, it would be nice to know about that. So I believe all of the students that were accepted were active participants in the Hackfest that happened in May. And for me, that is that really did matter a bunch. That was very important that gave us a phase, even before community bonding, where we could interact with people they could see and understand. Any other feedback? Comments? One point that I think I mentioned is before also in the project retrospective. But I think so, let's keep it here also because I think it's a big thing in what did go well before the application period was Jenkins was one of the first communities to have the ideas page live for the next year. So by I think November or December, Jenkins had a GSOC 2020 ideas page. And I could just Google this that GSOC 2020 ideas page. And so Jenkins was the top result there. So if I wanted to start something early, so that opportunity I had with Jenkins that I did not have with, you know, so other communities that maybe get their project ideas later. So that opportunity for me to start early was that idea page gave. So I think that's a great thing that we should definitely do. I think that's ingenious to consider, for instance, if I were to offer get plug and improvement ideas as part of Octoberfest and start touting them on on social media, you want to try Google summer of code, here's your test drive. I think that's, I don't know that anybody would be interested, but I think it's an intriguing idea to promote more actively. Hey, here's some ideas that we might pick for Google summer of code, Octoberfest your chance. No, I think you're onto something that sounds good. That's definitely. Yeah, I was actually tempted to introduce 2021 project ideas today. I started parking the website, but yeah, finally I decided to split it out to separate full request. But yeah, most likely it will happen in a few days. So if someone has any project ideas, you can already start thinking about them as I think you're going to remain in peace. Just just one last point and what did go well. Even the GSOC office hours, I think that were held, you know, I, those were happening since January or something. So that helped, you know, in community bonding. So, you know, you can join those meetings. And you can actually ask your questions verbally if that also helps, right? So that, that is also awesome. Yeah. And you think we could improve? I think I have an idea, but that's not for the application phase. That's one of the later phases. I think what Smith has said, I would reiterate it's, it was great that I could find a detailed explanation of what the project could be. And not only that, I could find how I could start contributing to get selected for that potential project. I could find newbie bugs, which I could solve, which was a great way for me to, you know, initiate or maybe establish a communication channel with the potential mentors, which really helped me in the later stages to, you know, get feedback for the proposal as well. And already, I think it's necessary for a student to understand and realize the, not only the community guidelines, but the, the contributing guidelines for the particular project. And you get to know that when you're raising PRs, you're writing, I got to know a lot from Mark's PR, then there's a way he left reviews before even I started the project, how he expects me to create a raiseable request and how it should be done. So that, that was a great thing. Yes. On the mentor side, I would say that the activity of students also was, it's a, one of the most important inputs for us when making decisions. Because, yeah, for applications, we're actually able to do educated choices of what application we would like to accept. Yeah, a lot of these additional information we collected through applications, basically all 12 projects, we had clear expectation about what would be of chances of success and also of additional challenges, which might need to be addressed during community born and later. It was mostly invisible to students, but as mentors and as actually there was a lot of discussions about that. So far, it's actually application phase and, yeah, all this new kind of friendly issues, office hours, etc. They helped us with the innovations a lot. Okay. Anything else to improve? Or should we move on to the next phases? Yeah, I have a point about the application phase on what did go well. I think I agree with all the project ideas. I think we have provided a web page included as ideas listed and we listed the project ideas with the potential mentors, the scope, and even some guidelines. I think that's as that could be a real big reason for the students why they choose Jenkins instead of some other projects. And so I think we should keep going on that and providing the project ideas early for with details early for the students. And the second highlight about the application phase is that we just provided his shared his development environment for me. And he just shared it on GitHub so I can get a quick start and start hacking Jenkins quickly. And that's friendly to the newcomers. Yeah, having quick start guidelines was an expectation for every published project. I wouldn't say that these guidance will be extensive enough for any of the projects and it's something we definitely need to study. But in principle, when we are moving the project idea to the published state, we will require a quick start guide and also become friendly and ambitious to be present. It's documented to some extent. Yeah, we definitely should keep doing that. Okay, so we have eight minutes left. Should we go to community bonding and start discussing that? Because usually people have a lot to say about community bonding. We already covered some items before. And personally, I think that community bonding is actually the most important part of the project. And for the most of the projects of community bonding, you can actually forecast whether the project is going to fail or not. At least you can definitely forecast that it requires involvement of all that means to succeed. And if you see what went well and what you put them through, it would be much appreciated. I think from my side, particularly from my project, whatever the challenges I faced, those could have been the personally I could have been initiated or from in general from our team, I think the challenges of planning could have been solved within the community bonding. We were more focused towards actually doing the project. We were more focused towards performance benchmarking and eliminating the finding results we could actually use. But we should have first before that we should have made sure that we need a concrete plan for the three months. And I remember that one of the mentors, Parichet, who was who did GSOC 2019, he did suggest me to write a design document. And I was and when I started to write a design document, I was actually, I was, I was finding it difficult to write it because for my project, I was not sure in terms of code, in terms of design, what I would design before even I needed to find performance improvements first, and then I would design a way to inculcate those improvements within the plugin. So that was like a step two for my project. But at that time to forecast the whole design was, I could not do that. And I remember that I did not publish a design document within that phase, which I did not like personally, but I was, I was confused how I can do it. I did, we did try categorizing how the benchmarks, the process of searching the areas within the plugin or how the benchmarks would go, but not the part of how we would implement it. So I guess that that was something where we, I could improve or where we in general could improve. Yes. So what would you suggest to change? I am not, yes, Mark. I am actually not sure, I am not sure if this is a problem from, if there's something which can be done in terms of maybe, maybe submitting a design document by the end of, by the end of the community phase, bonding phase could be like, I am not sure, I am actually not sure. This would be me being pushing to provide an improvement. I think it was more of an issue within, within our team or with myself, rather than the Jenkins, like the whole GSOC project. So I, I don't think I can suggest an improvement here. Well, but, but I think, I think it's a valid point that we did not have, we, as a mentor team, we failed to guide and failed to heed Parachay's good advice that a design document was a good thing. And, and that was something the mentor team could have encouraged. It would have shifted the work though, and that, that would have had a cost, right? We would have done some of the benchmarking later in favor of doing the design earlier, a document earlier that was expressing something we didn't yet know. And, but, but that's something I think the mentors might be encouraged to, to be sure that you have a detailed design discussions and the result probably should be a design doc. So maybe we should somehow reward the technology. So design doc might be confusing. We expect to see at least the forecast vision, whatever, well, to good energy, which would be possible at this stage. Because again, you don't need to design doc just for the design doc. The whole objective for that is to actually help the team to do the planning and to ensure that they can iterate when the coding phase starts. So do you find design doc technology consuming confusing from that point of view? Yeah, I'm, I'm fine with whatever phrasing, because the goal was to understand the kinds of things we would be doing. And I think we didn't do as good a job in that, in that community bonding. We had really good, good interactions, and we had really great results. But it wasn't as focused on the plan, I think, as it was on getting started on the results. Rishabh, did it, was that a fair way to say it? If not, feel free to correct me. No, no, I think that's 100% what I, what I want to say. But I would, I would also say that maybe we should ask the other participants that, is this something they, because I'm not sure if this could be a general improvement to, if you're writing, if you're creating a new plugin, I think there, they would not feel the same. What I want to say is that we should ask the other participants as well before considering this an improvement, because maybe this was something we particularly faced. And it was something we could have corrected as a team. But in general, I think requiring a design document or just telling that to the team is, should be enough for them to know that they should plan well before heading into the coding thing. So how would you work it? I'm actually not sure if this, Sumit or KZ, do you, do you feel that this is something which, because I'm not sure if we want this as an improvement in general, because I think if it, if it affects everyone, then it's okay. Okay. I think, I think what was something more specific to your project was, so you had to do some research and then your entire coding was, so if I'm getting it correctly, I'm not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong, that you had to do some research, right? And later on, your entire code was dependent on the results of that research. So, so I think, yeah, so that's a tough problem in itself, right? I mean, so it's just something that's hard to, that's hard to predict for you. So you're really dependent on the research. I think the best thing that maybe you can do is build a flow chart or something, but I'm not sure if that's a, so I think that's a, I think that's a problem with the project that's heavily research focused and then, you know, so I'm not sure if I have a solution for that. Answer your question, yes, that I was not, I was not dependent on any research per se that I had to do. So, so yes, that problem was not something we faced, but I can see that that's a problem that a research-based project can face, yeah. Okay, so fair enough, I think this is a project-based, more of a project-based problem than like something the Jenkins admin or Gadmonds could do. Okay, so probably I will take an action item, just to define it a bit and actually come up with a proposal, how we would change it, because I also do not have a clear answer what to do now. I understand that it's potentially a problem. Well, some projects, yeah, very iterative, well, assuming that we're in general, it's supposed to be like that. At the same time, we still want teams to do planning, and unfortunately not the entire JSOC structure is rather waterfall. Well, even if you read JSOC guidelines, yeah, now a project we rather prefer to do it more continuous, but yeah, for example, even if when you submit evaluation for student, basically there is a question of, has the code been merged? Then you can answer yes, no, but there is even no notion of Jenkins integration there or whatever iterations, so there is no way to specify, let's say 50% merged or whatever, and yeah, maybe it comes from that specific there. In our case, we definitely advise teams to do re-planning at the beginning of each phase to ensure that everything is on track, but yeah, I understand that the workshops experience with the research-focused project is different. Okay, I'll take an action item for myself, and yeah, we are going over time, so again, retrospective is a bit tedious task, and yeah, our main objective is to collect feedback, so I think, honestly, if you submit feedback for other phases, for example, just proposing changes in this Google doc or submitting feedback form would be much appreciated, and yeah, work admins will be working on merging everything into a single document, and then you will keep working on action items, so thanks a lot for all your feedback today, and yeah, if you could provide more feedback, I promise it will be appreciated because it improves the efficiency of these meetings, okay, so then thanks all, I'll stop the recording. Thank you.


This theme, planting seeds for the next seven generations. And so to give you an idea about that, I'd like for you to just for a moment here, close your eyes. And I'm going to sing a song for us to come together, and put our minds, hearts, spirits, bodies together. I said, there's a prayer, that prayer that goes and that's in there, it's asking creator to bless the future generations, the future generations that are yet to come, the ones that we will not see. So when we talk about seven generations, those are the ones we will not see. And we as the people today, it's incumbent upon us to think about those generations that are yet to come, the ones that we will not see. That's where we are here today, at that point of that responsibility, to consider that in all most practices today. You know, you have what you call us maybe a five-year strategic plan, 10-year, 20-year strategic plans about a business perhaps. But what about our basic, our basic life survival? What about that water? What about this air? What about this fire? What about this Mother Earth? What is going to be available for those generations that are yet to come? You have generations, it's not just indigenous people, you all have generations. You're part of a generation. Why not think about that? Why not start putting that in your plans? It's so important. It's so important for us to take time to really think about those things, especially today. Now, right now in the state of Arizona, like I told you, Hopi, Hopi, Navajo, you know, water flows usually in the rain season. Well, right now there's a bill, a Senate bill that is called a Hopi, it's called the Navajo Hopi Water Settlement Act. Being introduced by our own Senator McCain and Kyle, Senator Kyle, to take what water is there, we have, there's the aquifer. There's an aquifer that's under the lands of the Hopi and Navajo. But this Senate bill, and there's a House bill too, is where they want these tribes to give up their right to that water. In exchange, so for a little bit of water, that they will pipe back out onto the reservations, the tribal lands, but not to the entire tribal lands, just to maybe three different places. But they haven't, it's a promise that they're making, but there's no money. They're saying they're going to do this, but they don't have money to pay for it. But they want the tribes to give them all our water. And you know what they're going to do with that water they're taking? They're giving it to a mining company. They're going to give it to another, a power and electric company to take that water out of the reservation, into mining, take the water out of the reservation, across the state, and into California, different parts of some southern Arizona cities. And that's what they want to do with this water. And when the tribes, of course, our first response is, you know, this is our life. When we say this is our lifeblood, it literally is our lifeblood. It is. If they were there to take that water, the people who live there on those lands, what little, right now on those lands, there are actually still people who do not have running water in their homes. They do not, there's no water delivery system in communities. What they do is they go to the springs still today. They travel out to the springs and they fill their jugs and their water tanks and they bring the water back to their homes. And this is what they use to water their livestock, because they have livestock. Their sheep, their horses, their cattle. They still are self-subsistent and they rely on that water that way. So you take that water away, and the water that they're promising to give back to them is only water that they're saying will be for household use. So what I'm saying about taking care of these, the water, the elements, is very real, very real to us. Very real because it can be taken by an act of Congress, by an act of Congress. They can look at our people and say, we're going to pass this law and that water is going to be ours. And we're expected to say, yeah, sure, okay. We're at this point where this consciousness, the consciousness about the original instructions is like surfacing in a stronger way than ever before. It's unfortunate that I feel sad because I have heard 10 years ago by a representative of the United Nations say that the next wars are going to be over water. And they're already preparing, right here in our own country. So this is just one piece of it. It's huge. There's a lot more to it, a lot more to it. But what I'm sharing with you because it's so easy to overlook the importance of taking care of these basic foundations when everything seems so orderly, everything is in order. We're driving through the woods and looking around and wow, trees everywhere, water.  But these are some of the issues that we're dealing with and our concerns about the next seven generations that are yet to come, the ones we will not see.