But she's not your groove or jam I guess or we could it's it's almost too eclectic for my taste But I but I think she's cool and fearless and I like her as a person Right because we got to know each other really well at the blue lagoon that day So, you know, yeah, I like her a lot as a person A tennis star to star in our action movie then perhaps Mr. Borg in the Bjorn identity the Bjorn identity Hey, when you were there, did everyone was everyone transparent like Finnish people we could you see their hearts beat like baby fish? Do you know I? Mean a lot of blondes Yeah, a lot of six with tall people.  I was like everyone here is very tall And very attractive lot of English spoken and Yeah, I would would visit again. Did they all float inches above the ground? Like I'm just I always think they're elves and they got magic and they're see-through. I have all these See, I still don't understand with the seat They're very fair. Yeah, they're very clear and transparent Literally, you can see their hearts beat like baby fish, Roger When they when you build that model the Transparent man where you can see the human organs. We have a very good friend who has a part Finnish baby. He you cannot see their heart Can't you Tom can't you when you when you touch them? What's with you Tom? If you believe you get some lasik Long enough No, this is not um No, it's not uh, I know what you're asking Scott and no, it's not That blond, but you get a lot of light Tall people in one place Sarah.  It's hilarious because he's Scandinavian himself And his sister has lived there. Yeah, she's lived in Scandinavia. Uh, my ancestors are from Obviously if I am they are Yeah, so I it's this long running joke. It's like how I think all Canadian Money has holes in it even though it doesn't play holes Yeah, right in the center of it.  Oh, that's where they got the holes in the money And then no, I don't Yeah, or if someone says albino, I go.  I like to say so when anyone says Finland or Iceland or any of that up there You you think of transparent people and I always say oh, they all transparent and they heart speed like a baby fish It's like just automatic out of my mouth. Well, they're real They're real attractive. I'll tell you that much Some good genes going on up there and and overall just very tall That is not tall. I they keep all the genetics in house. So it's uh, Well, all right, all right friends. All right. All right. All right. I'm gonna do the show Take the wheel All right, I'm gonna count us in in five four three two one Thanks to everyone who supports independent tech news directly If you're not already become a dts member now at patreon.com slash dts This is the daily tech news for wednesday december 12th 2018 in los angeles. I'm tom mary and from studio feline I'm sarah lean and it's snowing again here in solid city. I'm scott johnson And I'm the show's producer roger chain. It is not snowing here.  We didn't talk about snow. I hope you're staying warm scott johnson You're not gonna get any snow you guys Now we drive to the snow uh, either you know either to the to the mountains or occasionally to the grapevine It snows up there. Uh, we are going to talk a lot about all the stuff Huawei entails architecture day architecture day. Comcast losing a vote in a small town But let's start with a few tech things you should know Well ces has officially kicked off even though most of you think well, wait, doesn't that happen in january? Well, lg among other companies has a habit of announcing things in december They're about to follow up on and show at ces in january lg announced the less than 3 pound 17 inch and the 22.53 pound 14 inch gram laptops only the 17 inch model though has a price and that price is 1699 dollars. Wow back to 17 inch notebooks. Uh, zennamax media is uh says it's agreed to a subtle litigation against facebook oculus and individual executives or executive more importantly for alleged misappropriation of vr technology zennamax launched the suit in 2014 after id software co-founder john karmack joined oculus as cto Their claim is he maybe took some vr stuff with him. Well, they're not claiming it anymore again But now they can't yeah The usfcc voted three to one to classify text messages as an information service Like the internet or cable tv not a telecommunication service like your phone The vote means that carriers can now block spam and robo call text messages without worrying They could they were blocking them before but now they don't have to worry about violating common carrier concerns The fcc says the decision pertains to bulk messaging not individuals carriers in the u.s May now block bulk messages from any organization for pretty much any reason They say they're only going to do it to block spam Name pros reports that google has transferred the duck dot com domain to the search engine duck duck go Google got the name what it acquired on two technologies back in 2010 Hey real quick about those ducks. Uh, I own new duck dot com I wonder if anyone wants to it's it's for sale or or I should do something with it Is it n e w or n u n e w duck dot com like a new you should talk to duck duck go and do like a solid Because they're the privacy protecting search engine and say hey, you know, I'd like to like to help you out Or I make a website where I draw a new duck every day. That's what i'm thinking about or that Oh You could also do that Back into the mind of scott johnson Angled it out there like you're gonna give it to duck duck go and then you pull it back with that great idea That's right. Uh, let's talk a little bit more about epics epics in the giving mood scott. You should take a You know tip from them Yeah, and epics all over the news lately with all their weird stuff that got going on Well, there's more epic announced a free online services sdk That offers cross-platform login friends presence profile and entitlements across pc mac ios android playstation Xbox and switch in other words every platform ever it will launch on pc in quarter two or quarter three With other platforms to be added throughout the year support for user generated content enhance social features Anti-cheat stuff and more are also planned to come with it It will launch with unreal engine and unity integration as well as work on top of aws With support for google cloud platform plan This is actually kind of a big deal and is completely fitting with A philosophy they had a previous to this just applied to fortnight Which is the game that has suddenly given them such a notoriety and such a power in the industry But that game was all about we want this to be playable everywhere And we want your account to be usable everywhere and cause some controversy on playstation and playstation blinked And so they got it over there and it's on the switch. It's on the phone It's the same account everywhere and this just feels like that philosophy writ large And inserted into their already pop selling industry standard engine as well as Integration into the big runner-up, which is unity. It's a big deal actually this it's huge for games You're calling it a philosophy and I get why you're saying that because it is part of epics philosophy But it is taking that platform. It's taking the platform they developed from fortnight and saying hey Wouldn't everybody else like to use this here? Yeah, you can yeah, they've they took a philosophy I mean, I'm not saying this is the process. It's also it's not just the philosophy. I guess is what I'm saying It's the entire technology It is the physical it is the physical manifestation Yeah, philosophy and it's great because I think the gaming world is headed this direction generally speaking I also think it'd be great if platform We had to be less dependent on platforms having to come up with solutions and more the game developers having more standards to work with Then you're not relying on sony's thing or nintendo's terrible online services or microsoft's good online service compared to somebody else Like it's just a way to Tighten it up put the control in the publishers developers hands. I think this is awesome Yeah, and it's great with more engines still will require the platforms to go along So sony could still block people who are using this sdk. It doesn't ensure you'll get to the platform But it says if they let you on then this will make it easy. Yep Sources tell bloomberg that as early as the spring meaning spring 2019 apple will announce the relaunch of texture as a premium service in the ios news app Offering unlimited access to around 200 magazines as a monthly subscription price apples Reportedly trying to convince the wall street journal and the new york times to join the service And that might be advantageous for both because magazine ad sales are expected to drop more than 10 percent in 2018 Okay, so for a while the the conventional wisdom in the tech world has been subscriptions subscriptions are the way Uh, who look at hulu. Look at netflix. I don't know why I said hulu first there. That was probably just charity Uh, because everyone says look at netflix. Look at amazon Uh, they get they get people to subscribe to shipping subscribe to movies Subscriptions are the thing and and subscriptions are on the rise and they're they're making a lot of money for people There's also the subscription boxes, etc. Etc. Etc Can this Work the way apple needs it to work in order to convince these publications to join it? Because if I understand it right For let's say 10 a month Uh, you get to read anything that's in the service and apple actually simplified texture recently to one tier They're used to have a separate tier for weeklies versus monthlies now There's just one tier And then the publications get paid based on what articles people are reading. So it's a little bit like spotify, right? The the the listens exactly like a music subscription service Listen to a song a small amount goes to the person who made that song and and over the aggregate of a lot of people listening to spotify Uh, you get you write a big check to the publishers apple wants to promise this will happen Except everybody listens to music on their phone. I don't know that people are reading magazines even on their tablets It it's been difficult to get people to make that transition What's happening is they're just reading the web or they're reading apps They're right not reading magazines in print, but they're also not reading. They're not making on a transition here I think it's a different situation Yeah, I think I agree with that and also I thought I was going to be one of these guys back in the in the early texture days I thought I was going to be the the target because I missed magazines. I thought I did So I thought well, ah cool This would be a way to do it kind of like to do with my comics and comicsology and other comics apps This is going to be a great service I'm going to totally do this and I did it or something like it I can't remember now And I looked at it once or twice and then never again and went why am I spending money on this every month? So I stopped doing it So I don't know I feel like the whole world might think they wanted their apple certainly thinks we want it But I don't think we want it the way they think well, and there's so much There's so much AI effort going into Let's make these assistants be able to speak our news to us in a way that makes them sound more human than ever Negating the need for us to be actually reading this. So I wonder what apple is It's sort of like what are you doubling down on it's it's a little antiquated sure And there are definitely people who are like I I know that and you'll probably write us in Afterwards saying like no, I love I love my magazine subscriptions. I love the idea of this all being in one place. This is great for me I feel like apple probably wants to Figure out how to make this a Siri thing going forward I had to guess we're not saying nobody does this that's that's not what we're saying at all But it has to be a lot of people doing it in order to make the economics workout because For publishers to give over the relationship with the customer first of all is a big deal All publications have a close relationship with their subscribers where they can market directly to them Use the data they have to hand that over to apple And to say well, we'll take we'll take a percentage of the money from people reading Versus the guaranteed money of a direct subscription on our website in the case of the new york times for instance, right? You're gonna have to have a lot of people Not just some people not even just a lot of people a huge number of people Using this app to make the economics worker out remember people were music publishers were complaining about spotify As recently as a year ago Because there just weren't quite enough of the tens of millions they would need to make the economics workout Those complaints have gone away as spotify has risen apple's thinking they can do For magazines what they've done with apple music and and after they acquired beats just you know Launching it through the stratosphere and becoming this number two music app and potentially number one in many markets I don't know that they came. Yeah At intel's architecture day the company announced it plans to introduce products in 2019 built on foverose 3d stacking Uh, some of you follow memory may realize that stacking in memory 3d memory has has caused some efficiencies that speed up Ram and and other kinds of memory. Well the technology stacks processing components inside a cpu inside a chip On die memory power regulation graphics and ai could all constitute separate chiplets Uh, and sometimes they can be stacked for that efficiency It also means because you're creating these little chiplets That some of them could be manufactured on the 10 nanometer process And so the cpu could be manufactured on the 10 nanometer process Even while others are still on the 14 or 22 nanometer process That's important for intel which has had some difficulty getting everything working on their 10 nanometer process Intel also announced sunny cove will be the next architecture The next intel codeword that you can you can remember That will be at the heart of the next gen core and xeon processors coming at the end of the year And intel promises its gen 11 integrated graphics are going to kill They'll be able to play some pretty decent games as they surpass 1 teraflop Intel still plans to introduce a discrete graphics processor as well If you've heard them say that they they doubled down on that that is right now called the xe and they promise it to come in 2020 Graphics integration and intel never been a great marriage for me in the past But um every time they talk about it I get a little excited because It's intel and maybe they'd finally figure their stuff out and quit letting The likes of nvidia and others poop on their parade, but it's never quite what they promise me It's going to be but I don't know it's so hard with chips these days Like I love this entire thing architecture day is awesome. I love the idea that hey, we got new chips coming And the process is getting better and we're doing all the things and we got the chiplets and the whatnot It's I do feel like the the jumps are so much less Drastic these days. It's less exciting than it used to be. I mean not that this isn't you know, it's all good These are all good things everybody. I don't know one teraflops on integrated graphics pretty exciting I I get what you're saying that overall. It's not the big jumps. They're passing even yeah, yeah, I mean these These are these are stats that you know 10 years ago. We don't laugh at and say oh, please Yeah, we're never gonna get there And the hardcore gamer is still going to want a discrete graphics card And a hardcore gamer is going to take a lot of convincing to use an intel discrete graphics card but The regular gamer who's like be nice, but you know what? I just want to play games on the thing I already own Uh an integrated graphics card like that is is definitely a boon to the monthly video game briefing kind of of user Ooh people should check that show out. By the way, it's frogpants.com stuff mvgb and you should do it right now Hey, look at this comcast offered to bring internet service to 96 of 1300 residents in charlton, massachusetts for 462,103 Dollars 23 rather plus interest to be paid over 15 years the plan would save the town money as the alternative Would now get this would be to spend 1.5 million to build a municipal network Which was approved in 2015. They all voted for it at a town meeting 50% There's 56 of 160 residents voted against accepting the comcast offer the municipal plan is expected to break Uh, even over the long term verizon dsl is the isp for about 88 of the residents right now Basically what it boils down to and we talked about on tms this morning The people of the town took the initiative and there A minority of the people of the town took the initiative to say no Wait, in fact, I'm going to do the bath right here Times 0.56 at 89 Of the 1300 that would be covered said uh, uh and just barely half. Yeah, so 7 percent Of the town determined the fate. Uh, it's probably a topic for another type of show Uh, right, but the fact is of the 160 people who cared to show up for this Uh, the majority of them said, you know what? It makes more sense for us to have Guaranteed 75 a month gigabit fiber That is under control and will pay for itself. That's the other part of this comcast was saying Hey, this will save you money, but it would save them money in the short term in the long term it will prevent taxes from being needed for this because Once it's built it's built and The the the the town will actually make money off of it. Uh, also no data caps Guaranteed accessibility since the towns do it. They're not going to have a concern About where to roll it out. They're going to roll it out to the whole town Yeah, I just I love the idea that they all kind of showed up and did this But then you're reminded that they didn't all show up and do it Just a very tiny percentage of them did and it bums me out that that scales down so hard You'd think in a little town everybody be stuck and how much of that too is hey listen We're on Verizon comcast seems evil. I don't know and we don't want to Switch at this point. Yeah, some of that but I mean, I don't know I I think in the long run despite the fact that it's going to cost him a little bit more Um in the short term less in the long run Uh And it's theirs to control as I said on this morning this morning's a segment with tom I think that's just better if I was in this small town. That's what I'd want I'd want that kind of control even if you know, it's not really control But you know, it's municipal you you kind of own it as a citizen by making this decision Your taxes are going to pay for things. I like that Versus comcast coming in doing what they want pulling out when they want changing things when they want I mean sure and you know in a town of what 1300 uh people that are in um the The the the boundaries it's a small town.  I mean more power to you Maybe it is a little bit of a screw Verizon as well because I would argue That's I would argue that This works better in a smaller town comcast came in and said look There's no risk to the town's municipal fiber from potential future competition Which is a little bit of a like hey, we could come in and still you know drive out your we we could still build here Even if you know even if you do your municipal do you want us competing with you? Uh less town borrowing So so basically saying like hey, uh, it's a fixed cost you pay us once that's it you get you get this Uh, and we'll do a $10 per month 15 megabit per second package for people with low income Now those all work when you don't trust the government when you're like, you know what? We should go with the fixed cost because and they say it's 1.5 million But you know how these governments get they do the cost just run and run and run but in a town at 1300 They may trust that it's like hey, I know the guy who's running this and we'll make sure that it works Also, they're not doing it themselves. They're contracting with westfield gas and electric Which is doing this for 20 small towns in western massachusetts. So they have a competent partner Who also received a grant to design the network? Which keeps the the cost down so to me This is the benefit of of a small town is saying Hey, we actually can hold our government accountable easy because we all know each other And so we therefore we have more trust that this will get done the way it's said and we'll get 100 fiber Not fiber coax. It'll make the town money It's it's transparent billing and marketing.  I want to live there. I want their speed You know what there's no I was going to say you don't want there's no, but he's into the snow already He might be okay in massachusetts algorithm released a new version of its music mixing dj app for ios It's a universal app for both iphone and ipad that includes support for dj hardware over usbc Now the app is free with classic mixing features and spotify integration At four dollars and 99 cents per month the subscription unlocks advanced features Which previously were added through in-app purchases. So a little bit of a different business strategy here Existing app owners can get a subscription for 999 after the first year For the first year not after the first year Yeah, yeah, so so in other words if you're like, hey already paid for this app They'll be like great. You know what? We'll give you like a super discount to you pay for two months ahead of time And you get the whole year essentially And it's the change from the in-app purchase model Where you were you were buying the dj mixing app and getting to use it forever But if you wanted the new features as they got rolled out you had to pay for those now they're saying You get the app for free. It'll have some basic features you can use forever But if you want our new features as they roll out pay a subscription So five dollars a month means you'll always get whatever the new features are that they're adding Oh, the subscription model continues to work for audio programs not only that but it's I mean everything's moving to it I'm nervous. There's a lot of the apps I use on my iPad pro for You know art and stuff for graphics have already done that and the one that I love the most Is a flat 499 and has been since the beginning the the app called procreate easily the best art app in my opinion On the entire ecosystem. It's fantastic And every time I use it I go, this is too cheap. This is too cheap. I'm using this too cheaply There's no way this isn't going to go up. It's something's going to happen and I am just waiting for the day I'm not trying to give them ideas because you know, I like the price now But I also think they should deserve more and so what I think is going to happen is they're going to get around to Doing the same thing. I think it happens across the board music art Utilities whatever it is subscription things as a service Is how people are going to do stuff moving forward more and more and more And it means as a service.  Then I will and and algorithm probably realizes well enough people were Figuring out that they didn't really need all that extra stuff So if you bundle in a subscription and make it seem Like you're getting a way cooler version of the app um, and this is Now your only option they end up making more money in the future Yeah All right in the continuing saga of huawei cfo mung wanzhu Uh, she was released on bail by a canadian court tuesday Mung must remain in british columbia provide a supervisor with telephone numbers Live at a home that was selected as her residence a 5.6 million dollar home Stay indoors from 11 p.m. To 6 a.m. So she can't leave that that residence overnight And she'll have to go during this. Well, but that's to keep her from sneaking away In the dark night, right? It's it's basically putting a restriction on Flight it's reducing it's reducing the flight risk. That's actually a pretty standard thing also having to surrender her passports Is is a standard thing when you're under investigation? And be under the watch of a security company. Also. She has to wear an ankle bracelet So yes, she was released on bail, but she is definitely not out of the hot water the u.s Of course, you somehow haven't heard it's seeking extradition of weighing of meng on Accusation of fraud regarding sale of technology to iran in violation of u.s. Sanctions now u.s. President donald trump told Reuters He might intervene in the case if it would help trade negotiations with china It's hard to tell if that's just kind of capitalizing on something that was happening already but That that's that's sort of the latest update. I don't I don't know how much else we have to say about this but it is progressing And and it is not progressing in a way that's necessarily favorable to wally Yeah, what what strikes me about it is it's Without being I don't want to be too sensational here, but it has kind of a dystopic flavor to it the idea that a rightly or wrongly a ceo or is in this case a cfo but a big wig at some big international company Is detained In this way it feels weird and futury and I don't know if my cyberpunk future is around the corner Not as something about it. It's a it's this is an unusual situation, right? There there are there are a lot of days where we do daily tech news show where I look at stories and go This is being clickbait marketed as unusual, but it's not Uh, and that is the norm this this is unusual. You do not see the chief financial officer of a major corporation Arrested and put on bail with an ankle bracelet, you know, like that's Especially from a country that's not involved in the dispute. This is a dispute between the united states and china The reason in my opinion, this is just my opinion This usually doesn't happen is because everybody knows where they should and shouldn't go The big companies have enough leverage over countries that they know they can Pass freely and if they feel like that leverage may be threatened. They don't go there So this was a miscalculation on the part of wenzhou She among wenzhou thought she could travel safely through vancouver airport Uh, and she miscalculated she did not expect canada to come in on the side of the us in this particular situation And they did Especially since canada of the us and actually most of the americas has an extradition treaty with the us So the request You know if they went by the book and the justice to us justice department Went by the book and did every filter thing out I mean, they would order that request unless there were some Mitigating circumstances that would disallowed and it's not what I think huawei thought was this is not a valid claim It's going it's going to be determined that it needs more evidence and by that time i'll have made my flight to back to china right Yeah, the whole thing Again, like I I don't know I don't know how this ends You know the one the one hand i'll intervene maybe uh because it'll help uh trade relations, but at the same time We've you know, certainly we're taking a much harder line against iran stuff right now So why would we do that because it would seem to go counter to that? Like I don't know if there's a good answer to any of this It feels like you're you're trying to look for an answer in a very complex geopolitical Context and one of the things I will say is stuff like this has happened before but as tom said It's not a regular thing right whether it's pinot shea when he was Planning to travel to europe and the spanish court said like as soon as he puts his foot in the e eu country He gets arrested. He said all right. I'm not going to go that way So I mean for a lot of individuals who are in the similar circumstance Like tom has suggested they have like okay not going to go through there because the risk is too great That I might fall afoul of the local jurisdiction and be arrested and then hauled before You know, uh, you know another country that had an extradition treaty with that nation Yeah, I I mean the way this plays out is uh If nothing else happens, uh mung gets extradited it looks like that's likely And is is transported to the united states and the united states then puts her on trial Uh, and and she is on trial for Being on the board of a company that violated iranian sanctions Uh While that company what had a relationship with huawei and then the the point of contention seems like it will be did that company really Just act as a subsidiary of huawei Or was it acting on its own if if if the court says and now that subsidiary was it was was separate Then you've got a different situation and that company has already wound down and it didn't do anything But if it's part of huawei Then you've got a different situation in the court because mung uh being the cfo of huawei now is responsible Uh for for this action of this other company So that's what it's going to turn on the whole thing is going to go away before it gets to that case Because whether this is part of trade negotiations or not it is definitely up for negotiation And the united states will use it to get something out of china at least that again is my opinion Yeah, I think you're probably right Folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com Also, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on other folks stories your peers at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com You can do the same thing on facebook facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Hey, is that the mailbag? Oh, it is tom Kind of funny that you saw that there uh mad who has been a patron uh since 2018 so thank you matt for being a patron this year says greetings from toasty and traffic slammed india I'm here on business in a western state and found This ad on the front page of the local paper and was fascinated now for anybody who's listening to the audio version It was an ad Uh convincing folks who use whatsapp not to fall for fake news Uh matt says I asked our local development team why they think it's such a big issue They believe more than 50 of whatsapp news is fake and started by people enjoying making jokes of events and other people But now readers want to believe the platform is also so powerful and so ingrained in local culture That it's in addition to their tech ecosystem and it's almost too much to change for the culture to keep up with before 2014 there was no outlet sharing this type of content either satirical or informational And they don't see the demand for this content changing anytime soon Thank you matt. I love getting these feet boots on the ground Situations and if you are able to watch the youtube video, uh, rogers got got the ad up For you to take a look at and uh, we'll we'll try to figure out how to include a link to it in the show notes As well Also, steven schleicher asks, uh, hey major spoilers steven schleicher If i'm driving a driverless car, do I need a driver's license? I'm not technically driving just sitting in the driver's seat aging drivers want to know not me Of course, i'll be young forever. Uh, if you're driving. Yeah, you need a driver's license Yeah, and the company that makes the driverless car also needs to be registered with the local authority to operate these cars on the road If you're not driving if you're just riding Uh, and there's no safety driver then you wouldn't need it if we ever get to that point. Yeah, I would think so Well, thanks to everybody who uh sends us great mail mailbag stuff every day And of course, thanks to scott johnson for being with us this fine wednesday scott What's been going on since we silenced Schleicher take the wheel. Um, okay. I was gonna say I got a lot of stuff going on I'm not going to talk about anything people can get on stores anymore because i'm We're still trying to ship everything we've got and I don't want to put anybody out there and have a get there after christmas So instead of doing that, I would like to remind people the patrick beija tuesday's own dtns Uh guest host and myself every month do a little show called the monthly video game briefing briefing or mvgb Which you can find at frogpants.com slash mvgb. It's also all over the place on Daily tech new show dot com you'll find it and when you do subscribe to it listen to it Give us your feedback. It's a video game show with a slightly different bent. We come at you monthly and say, all right Here's what's happening. Here's what's going on and we look at it through the eyes of a more Sort of tech related point of view. So check it out if you like it Let us know and for everything else for me you can find me at frogpants.com or at scott johnson on twitter Of course big thanks to all the listeners who are supporting us and everybody who is joining us as we move towards that goal of Getting one more patron than last month. Thank you folks for piling in keep it coming patreon.com slash dtns in a quick mention This show is the spiritual successor of tech news today and buzz out loud And if you liked mollywood and I doing podcast together back in the buzz out loud days Well, I've got good news. It's a thing is coming back Molly and I will be doing our first return episode It's a thing it's a thing dot me on thursday and in fact If you want to hear us record it on thursday at 4 30 p.m. Pacific You got to become a patron there patreon.com slash it's a thing And then you can get access to the discord and listen to us there So I thought I would let you all know Excellent so glad to have molly back in the family Our email address on this show is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 130 utc and find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live It's possible. Justin robert young will be here tomorrow. Join us tomorrow and find out This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com Time and club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Woo covered a lot of ground there Good show guys. Good show Good show Way to show up I meant to throw in there a comment about how the the ceo being or cfo being detained Could it happen in the future where? Uh tim cook is visiting uh foxconn factories And the chinese government decided, you know, we don't like what he did three years ago with that one deal and it violates Whatever we're thinking they already kind of do that Not with not with tim cook. They don't not with tim cook, but yeah, what I think what scott's saying is it would it would be Getting the cfo of huawei is at the level of getting the cfo of apple. So not in cook, but you know feel shiller Yeah, yeah, that's true. I forgot about that Oh, well, I don't know just feels dystopic to me I mean, I didn't want to go, you know too much into like the ha ha aspect of it because it is a big deal but i'm like Five million dollar home in vancouver You don't have to leave the house between the times of night that I would be sleeping Wait, wait a minute. It's not that you don't have Sounds great No, no, no, I like the way you think about it like wow, I have a good excuse to stay home. That's awesome Yeah, give me an ankle bracelet I'll just I'll get comfy Yeah, I mean Okay, so there is an aspect and I know a lot of people especially if you've been in prison or had family in prison Will disabuse anyone else of this notion, but there's some people like oh prison sounds great, right? All my meals Prison is not great, but Here's where you get like all the perks with none of the downsides. All right, right. Yeah Home prison Well, I shouldn't say none of the downsides. You don't have freedom of movement They're they're for sure downsides, of course. Um, and and yeah, not to diminish the fact that this is a big deal to anybody with the stature of miss bank, but I'd like to hang out in her palatial estate Yeah, put an ankle bracelet on me. It's fine. Let's order some postmates. Yeah, I'm sure there's a whole lot of There's a lot of creature comforts in a five point Do you think there are any Swarovski crystals on that ankle bracelet? Yes. Yes Uh, well, that's a good question. I think there probably aren't um, but uh, what ofs But I want there to be it's a a dg ankle bracelet Like sure Oh Sorry miss ming I I don't know it so so Here's the the difference just to go back to what scott was saying earlier like I it made me think Okay, what would it take for this to happen in reverse, right? That's always a good exercise in understanding anything I would take China continually accusing apple of breaking the law Which because the united states has had a steady drum beat about huawei for a while, right? That's not a surprise that huawei is under the gun from the united states, right? China has not been Beating the drum as hard regarding apple, but they have accused apple of some consumer issues some consumer um consumer rights violations So if that suddenly stepped up And they were saying it was worse consumer protection violations Or it was factory worker fraud factory worker violations that they were Directly responsible if you started to hear that kind of rhetoric coming and then I guess, uh, maybe Phil shiller visits Vietnam Uh, where where he's touring a factory that's going to start creating iPhones and as he's changing planes Uh in vietnam gets arrested by the vietnamese authorities and put on trial for extradition to china That would be sort of the parallel situation here. Yeah, or or what you do is you see china Turn their eye of sauron at their former arch enemy south korea Uh where they've had conflicts for centuries. Oh, you can do it to samsung and they go, oh samsung With this and then it becomes just one of our allies. It's a little less Samsung just just announced they are shutting down one of their two factories in china They're attributing it to slowing sales of handsets in china, which is absolutely happening to samsung there, but But yeah, I mean so again, I mean this is I understand where scott's coming from but from the chinese mentality The idea is always you beat the less you you you You really beat the crap out of the The smaller player in order to send a message to everyone they're higher up Instead of going after the higher ups directly, right? So you kind of threaten them that way so It's really just kind of a cultural mindset For example, you know one of canada's x diplomats who's actually working in China currently as an for an NGO organization was arrested or I shouldn't say arrested detained What what are we uh, this is really good stuff and I hesitate to interrupt you, but I don't know, uh, so Google says to duck duck go away Or get out the vote for municipal cable Where's the other one, uh I'll go rid them as a service. I'll go rid them Well, that was the All right One subscription at a time Taking life subscription at a time. Yep. All right and not so comcastic But that might be too specific. How about just one subscription at a time? I like one subscription It reminds me of a sitcom I used to watch One subscription at a time Where is in one day at a time mckenzie phillips? Oh, yeah I'll rid her That was that was threes company. Sorry. Oh, okay. It's like wait a minute. John ridder. John ridder. No, John ridder was in, uh, threes company Who was um schneider? You guys think of schneider? I'm gonna play schneider. I don't know his name But it was uh, it was eddie van halen's wife, uh Valerie brinelli Yeah, they uh At herrington Okay, right. I never watched that show. I actually don't have any opinion. Oh here someone deleted. That's why I barely do It's not even mine. I don't think it's really even tominized generation. Not really. What is one day at a time We were kind of I watched it I watched it on tv although I think I Definitely watched it when it was on tv But I think majority of my viewing was in reruns later. I I will say this it was a kid show or rather kid Family-oriented show if one or all the cast members made it to the cover of hot dog magazine Yeah, but hot dog or dynamite schneider was like all dirty and pervy and stuff There's no way. Yeah, but when you're a kid He just looks like the goofball superintendent of your you know apartment complex Yeah, but he was all but he made himself seem like the guy He'd want to avoid it all costs in the dark and never see him at night Yeah, but stranger danger came around in the late 80s Mid-20s That show is early 80s. It's not a concern back then that show was the late 70s. Yeah, that was not 80s Yeah, but I watched it's the 80s when I'm watching as a kid because I was watching 80s Yeah That's true. And isn't there there's a netflix reboot or something going on Yeah, there's what's not a reboot. It's a it's sort of a reimagining So it's a hispanic family to all different characters But the same premise same general idea. Is there a is there a rapey guy named schneider or no? You really don't like schneider I never thought of schneider is as bad as you do. Wow I just thought he was just kind of a cantanker. Yes. I never I never watched the show What did what did he do? He came up to the door Valerie Bertinelli'd open the door and he go hey, baby fountain something Dubba dubba dad. I'm like, dude, you're just like the handyman around here. What are you doing? He was always making moves. Oh Yeah, he was I don't feel like he was dirty though. I I I take You know the venn diagram is in 1977 that venn diagram was a little different, I think My take on schneider as a kid was always that He looked like a guy I shouldn't like but then once you got to know him you realized he was a good guy And all that was just talk. It's just a good guy It helps Weird-looking strangers Yeah, it's locker. Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned. I think it was you roger or maybe it was um, you's got uh stranger danger I remember like My parents, you know going through the whole thing with me like if anyone ever Offers you candy and says like your mom is hurt. You have to come with me Like there were all these things that happened, but stranger danger was not a thing That was like something that was coined after I was like probably When I hear the word stranger danger, I immediately think of roger because he's the person I hear say And we're so okay. It was roger Which is like, I mean, that's it. That's a good thing to you know, teach kids And we all kind of got taught that but like that just was not a term You did not hear anything. I didn't know the phrase until much later It was it was a thing that they came up with and they made a bunch of like after school programs When I was in high school I remember those but also I was at the height of the latchkey kid era so like I was the kid that Went to school Walked to school and walked back to school by myself You know had let myself in and you know didn't burn down the stove as I popped open a can of the Campbell soup to eat I had a key to the house. It was exciting It was exciting initially then I lost the key a couple of times. We had dinty more not campbells, but yeah Didn't team more and we did too. We had dinty more and western family. That was the other one Western family. We never had that one. Well, we had to be in the west. I guess.  Yeah, it is the best foods I can't no, I can't even with you helman's people. I can't Wait, what best foods it's helman's period Well, hold on. How do you feel about the helmans and bring out the best?  He's the anti mayo. What do you think of that? I think I think he's messing out on a lot of fun in life is what I think Yeah, I do too. However when we're talking about mayonnaise It's best foods I'm gonna helmans helmans is for like weird people east of the mississippi like who even knows Normal people who want to refer to something by its actual name And not have a repetitive slow Yeah, bring out the best foods And have a redundant tag. I didn't even really eat mayonnaise until high school I didn't even have it in the house mayonnaise is wonderful. It gets a bad rap I mean I agree with people that if you ate it with a spoon, it's disgusting. It's not the point. The point is Exactly, but that's how they portray it. That's how they're spinning their little anti mayo message Well, people who love mustard aren't eating mustard out of spoonfuls They're putting it on things that you know help it enhance the overall dish Great, and I also like mustard.  Hold on. This is an important point. Mr. Robas says It's helmans in iowa, which is west of the mississippi. Remember, it's best foods west of the rockies Most of the country calls it helmans. Yeah, it's only west of the rockies Well, we know what the best part calls it best food. Sometimes the most people are wrong. So Exactly That's called the electoral college I don't I don't actually I don't have a problem with helmans because I don't know if I've ever actually had So it's the exact same thing. Do you like mayonnaise? Whatever If you best foods and helmans are exactly the same product. Yeah. Yeah I just feel like it's like Like who would ever sing like bring out the helmans and bring out the best everyone who knows the actual Slogan would sing that because that's the way it goes. All I know is the oscar mayer's one Oh I wish there were some oscar mayer mayonnaise That would be the weirdest thing I could be I I do remember uh, all kidding aside reading the mayonnaise. I was I was a label reader. Okay come at me Hey, I still am I remember reading the mayonnaise label and seeing the little text that said known as best foods west of the rockies and thinking Whoa, that would be so weird Some day I'm I want to go west of the rockies and and see their alternate universe mayonnaise where it's called best foods Well, and I was like hell man That seems like like a very weird thing to That's wonderful Hell man, but it's delicious. Hell man right Still sounds good. Hello, man uh Roger as a mustard hater There are so many different kinds of mustard like sure that I don't like any of them yellow mustard Okay, but then you've got you know some like spicy brown and then you have your you know, grape poupon John That sounds like expensive. I'm not going to eat it. No. No. I mean, they're not all expensive. I don't know. I love mustard I I don't understand. I just can't I like this. They're starting mustard. I I don't like that much So maybe those are yours My mustard is uncontroversial in my opinion. So it is it is odd that you don't like it Yeah, I don't know why even an issue. Yeah mustard should be Oh Really wrong wrong. Well, but I know I I want to know more about what Kind of mustard roger doesn't like because I'm Folks you'll just have to wonder and and take roger's answer that he like doesn't like any mustard Audio folks stick around. Maybe we'll find a mustard that roger likes


All right, ready to start? All right, good afternoon, everyone. Today, we have a pretty exciting panel from leading operators. The topic is all about open stack orchestration to support SDN and NFE, and specifically how programmability and automation are going to be impacting the telco networks. So before I go to the panel, real quick, I want to set the stage. One of the things we have noticed in the last several years is the technology trends. There are many technology trends that's been shaping how we think, how we do business, how we do operations. It's almost like throwing a rock in the pond. It has created a lot of ripples. And it has given rise to the theories like this, right? Efficiency equals migrating to cloud. Einstein's second theory. And the social media was completely full of it. Just to recap, the technology trends, we know cloud, right?  And cloud has been their own. And key thing that it brings is the rapid elasticity and resource pooling and taking that concept and applying it to the network functions, more like virtualizing it, which provides you the network function scaling. That's the NFE. And the third one is the SDN, Software Defined Networking, which provides programmability, sort of taking that control and the data plane elements separate, and provides you a common APIs, common programmable interfaces. So these are the technology trends. So what we are going to explore today is about orchestration, OK? All these technologies are really good. But ultimately, it comes down to how we can orchestrate. This is just a pretty straightforward definition right from Wikipedia on orchestration. And we would not only talk about this, but also some of the experiences from each of those operators. So having said that, let me introduce myself. My name is Swami Vasudevan. I'm with Ericsson in the SDN NFE Cloud Solutions. And with me, I'll go from my right, over here from Telefonica. And then we have Greg from AT&T, and Fred from Verizon, OK? And what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to ask each of the panelists to talk about how OpenStack is impacting their networks as well as the businesses. And can we start with Abir? Mike's not working. Can you hear me? No? No. No, it doesn't work. Yep, that works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it's good. I mean, using yours will be a bit awkward, but this is what it's called, an operator by an early age for getting the things done. So well, some challenges about the orchestration. I mean, the uses of these technologies, the obligation of these technologies for the network is the reason is because we want to increase the freedom that we have, the choices that we have, but also make our life easier and more complicated. And you know all the list of passwords that we all want to use to apply to these technologies. But one thing is what are our expectations and others? What are the reality that the reality, by the way, is changing and evolving? But you need to be aware of every single moment what the reality is to have the right level of ambition in each of the stages. We in Telefonica started this journey very early. And actually, we had our first BNF. By then, they were not called BNFs back in 2008. And since then, we've been working on this stuff. And I think that we have an informal opinion on what are the things that can be done. And we are pretty optimistic on them and the things that cannot be done yet. So instead of focusing on the things that we can do today, because they are pretty obvious that we can do a lot of stuff, I'll focus on what are the challenges and what are some challenges that would be great if we could finally be able to solve. There are two things that we are struggling, in general, as industry, related to the orchestration, the way that we do work. One is the modeling of the BNFs and the network services. I mean, if we don't have an appropriate description in terms that can be consumed by a system, then we end up doing things manually. That's some of the things that we wanted to avoid. And the second is that, and this is very pertinent in this forum, it's about some of the limitations that the Cloud Management System have, and particularly OpenStack, because we are in this forum, on how to deal with data plane workloads and interconnect them successfully. So I elaborate a little bit on them. Sorry for being technical. This is what orchestration is, from our perspective. You have a set of replaceable components and you want to be able to assemble them in an automatic fashion. That is the theory. And you have your BNFs and you have your network service. That is what you build out of those pieces, those bricks, if you want. And then you have one process that is onboarding where you have new BNFs that you purchase or building house that you incorporate into that catalog. And that is great because if you have some sort of blueprint of what you need to do, then the system will do it on your behalf. That is great, but any resemblance with the reality is merely casual because actually what we have is an uneven modeling of the BNFs, which is in most of the cases inadequate and is completely unrelated even with the development, the things that the developer that was creating that BNF intended to achieve. Then it's not a surprise that the onboarding is hard. And then you have a catalog like this, which is difficult to handle, but hold on, we have the blueprint for developing the network service, but perhaps it's a bit rough. And it's not a surprise that the integration, ad hoc integration is needed. So if you are lucky, we end up with something like this. But I'm not saying that we are being over ambitious, it's a work in progress, okay? So that is one thing. And some second point that is related to this one is the connection with the underlay on the things that go underneath because the developer all the time had in mind those requirements where he expected that the, he or she expected that the BNF landed. And one of the key features that many of the network elements that did with massive amounts of traffic have in common is precisely the data plane and the data plane workload. And that means that if we want to handle them at BNF level, we need to make sure that the BNFs are deployed in the manner that we're designed and they are interconnected properly so that we don't lose packets in the middle. The funny thing, and it is the positive things that all the technologies are available at all the layers, but in OpenStack, they are available in the hypervisor, in libbeert, even in the SDN controllers. All that is ready just to use it. But it's not yet there. In order to make it simple, I mean what you have is some BNFs that deal with the data plane and you want to interconnect them. And sometimes you need to interact with external sources or interconnect them in a manner that is as designed by the BNF vendor. The thing is that you need to pay attention to the three aspects because there's a lot of misconception and I think that we can elaborate later on in the panel session. What is about the resources that are assigned to the BNM itself? So it's large enough, has the special type of memory, whatever that is needed. The way that the interfaces are managed, which is particularly challenging in a cloud management system because they are more oriented to elements that only have one interface in most of the cases. And then how you handle the underlay because many of the connections can go in overlay but many of the connections cannot. And the thing is that there are a set there could be more of gaps that are related to this simple picture that are still there and are in the middle of being more ambitious on the NFE deployments on top of OpenSack. So that is the statement. Hope that we can elaborate later on in the panel session. Thank you. Thank you. Right. Craig, do you want to? I do. It's working. All right, okay. Is it working? All right. Okay, my name is Greg Stigler and I'm AVP Cloud from AT&T. For those of you who are here at the opening keynote yesterday, I know you saw my boss, Sorb Sexena, the senior VP over software development and engineering at AT&T. If you didn't see it, I highly recommend it, not just because he's my boss and I'm sucking up, but it was really good. It was really good. He tells you a lot about our direction, a lot about where we came from, a lot about where we're going and a lot about what we want to do, okay? One of the pieces of that is something that we've released in a white paper to the public called ECOMP. ECOMP, let's just not worry about the acronym. It's got a whole bunch of orchestration. Oh, is the orchestration, okay? So it is the orchestration engine that we're developing and looking to open source and we had 1,700 downloads of this white paper on the first day we put it on our website. So I invite you to go out and download that as well and look to collaborate with us, which is going to be a continuous theme. Can we skip to a different slide or just go blank? Oh, I can do it, okay. I had two slides for today, but we cut them and we decided to go unplugged. So, which I kind of like anyway. So what I will tell you is that ECOMP is our foundation for moving forward with orchestration. I will tell you that the initial orchestration is not the hard part, right? It's once you have something up and running and you want to take action based on the events that take place, that is the key. So it's getting to those details and it's not creating a storm as well at that point in time where maybe you have a DDoS attack and you start spending up more VMs or containers and you go out, eventually you're going to go out of your data center walls. So that's one of the biggest keys is controlling that storm. From the AT&T story, we were a large contributor in the beginning of OpenStack. In fact, we were on Diablo. That was also mentioned in the keynotes for a couple of people that were on Diablo and the pain we went through, well, the pain we went through on Diablo. I think somebody hit a switch they might not have hit, should have hit. But it was nice to see you all. So we've got a lot of experience. In fact, we were great contributors back then. Tremendous contributors to OpenStack. But what we could not do is deliver something for our business. That was a problem, okay? So we stopped and we went back and said, what do we need to do to make this right? And really, we culturally changed. Instead of living by the Agile manifesto alone, we added some rigor. My favorite search is Agile space excuse. Now, I wanna tell you that I'm an Agile fan. Love to iterate. Feel like I've been iterating on my life in IT development. Okay? But when you have absolutely no structure with 13 plus scrum teams like we have at AT&T and growing around OpenStack, something this complex, if you don't have a little bit of structure to work this, you're not gonna make the end goal. So we put that in, we began to make process on our strategy, we began to deliver, and then in Tokyo last year, I made a promise to the community that we were gonna show up in a big way here in Austin and we were gonna talk about how we are going to contribute. You may be surprised to see an AT&T person sitting next to my friend Fred, and he is a friend now, from Verizon. Okay? We want to contribute together. This may be a little bit of back to the future. There were interconnection agreements in the past, we can help each other. That's what Open Source is all about. Okay? So we wanna do that across the globe, not just within the United States as well. In fact, I have a vision that what we will see someday is service providers and large enterprises sharing workloads on their OpenStack powered core, right? So we get the same core, we can share that workload with another provider. So if we go to country XYZ and we don't have a facility rather than build a building, put in hardware, do all the things we have to do, I would like to run my workload on their cloud and vice versa, we wanna make our cloud open. So we are very open, very open source based and we'll continue to follow through with that and that's our commitment to the community going forward. Problems, Javier mentioned some, they absolutely exist. I will say the top ones for me is upgradeability, neutron and why I have to go pay somebody to do overlays I don't understand. So I would really like to see something grow in that area better and I'll differentiate something here as well. Pure open source versus commercial open source. I don't know if anybody's used these terms yet but I made them up at least the commercial part. On the pure side, you would look at people like Mirantis, you would look at people like Ubuntu and basically you can download their hardened version from their website, hardened version from their website. On the other side and I'm not gonna mention them, by name, you buy a commercial hardened version and you have vendor lock in because it is not easy to switch to that one that they call open source, okay? It is not easy to switch over to that one because there's a lot of packaging, there's a lot of issues with doing that. So I would ask the community to put a great focus in this area as something that we could do together and make a difference in this world. So with that, I'll sit down. Thank you for the time. So again, thank you very much. I'm Fred Oliver from Verizon and we're good friends now with Greg. Again, I think we've been Verizon working on a cloud environment for a fairly long time. We did deploy internally stuff back on Essex stuff way back when. In the meantime, I think it's improved quite a bit but it still has some pieces that are lacking. I think there, you know, Verizon sees this as a great opportunity to improve our business efficiency, leverage some of the capabilities that are coming up in the environment and improve agility and eventually arrive at some operational improvements. There certainly are, again, I'll reiterate a lot of the things that our friends, Xavier and Greg have not mentioned. There's certainly some pieces lacking in the current limitations, both from the VNF vendor perspective, some of the VNFs we get are not really suitable or ready to be run in a cloud environment per se. Orchestration is one of the mechanisms that we use to try to compensate for some of the things that are there and we're looking to leverage all that capability. Again, I'll reiterate some of the things that I've said before some of the things that are kind of missing in the or lacking in the environment or neutron and kind of high packet rate processing is still in the infancy for us and we can certainly see some, ask for some improvement there. So we'll switch to some panel questions and I think I'm hoping like audience have a mic so we can actually alternate between a question I ask and one from the audience.  It was a pretty candid conversation about life and death. So he asked me, are we all going to die, daddy? And I said, yes. Are you going to die? Yes, am I going to die? Yes, and I asked him, like, why are you asking it? And the answer he gave me was pretty interesting. He said, when you die, I want your iPhone. Okay, all right. So the reason he said was because he wanted to do that complete video streaming and online gaming. So interestingly, that puts a lot of pressure on the network and how agile it should be changing as fast as it can be. So I want to ask you guys, did OpenStack enable you to deploy new services in a flexible manner, in a faster manner? And if so, an example. So maybe I'll start from the other side. Fred, you want to get up? Yes, I mean, I think there's, we're still in the beginnings of the journey but we certainly see there's examples of cases where a lot of the process that's been involved in actually acquiring hardware, planning for something and then deploying in the various environments and then enabling things have been considerably improved by the use of OpenStack, deploying virtual environments and deploying it on a customer at a time basis, rather than as a kind of a large incremental service deployment. So I think there's certainly in the wireless pack of processing environment where I've seen a rapid enablement reduction from a several months to deploy a new customer service down to more in the week timeframe, just going through all the process environment. Greg, do you want to add anything to it? Sure. Six months ago, I would have said no. Now I'll say yes. The know was based on the time it takes to deploy a cloud, an OpenStack cloud and the energy and manual nature of that. So as part of Mr. Saxena's presentation and the keynote, he discussed that in the first 10 months of last year, we deployed 20 zones and those are sites too, same thing, okay? In the last two months, we deployed 54 and that's all about automation. So that automation making the sites available, both test, dev and production has changed the world that we were able to make at AT&T, that we were able to make this available to our developers and our business users. So that was the most significant move that enhanced the services and we have 17 VNFs coming up this month based on that. So it's very exciting. Okay, thank you. Are we up? We'll do this. Yeah. No, sir, did this one work now? No. Yep. This one. No. Both? Yes. Both? No. Now? Yeah. Exactly. I'm okay. I can't get a microphone from there so you don't need to. Anyway, anyway, what I was saying, okay, of course that's helped us. I mean, we've, as I said, I mean, we are continually recalibrating the level of ambition, because it's obvious that each technology has a degree of maturity. So if the question is whether we, in the environment that we have for compute nodes, we have improved in the way that we do the processes, I would say, definitely, yes. And actually we have some largest cases, experiences in South America, where we have strong presence as probably many of you know, with residential market based on H86 processes. The process of the point is that it's not only about the way that you change your operation in terms of what you do with the BNFs, but also the way that you change and you transform your relation with the customer, which has changed substantially because of that environment. That's been the main lesson for us, is that it's not about the technology, it's not about deploying BNFs fast, it's not about deploying data centers fast, which, by the way, is required, so I'm not neglecting that challenge, but what is actually challenging is in the end, is to be able to change your relation with the customer for the good, if possible, and leverage on the new capabilities that those platforms have in order to be faster, be more responsive, and be able to offer things that really matter for that customer. That is the process where we have changed substantially the way that we operate the network, particularly in the places where we have some NVE-related deployments in place. I would like to echo that before we move on real quick, because splitting up the black box is the best thing that ever happened, right? So taking the proprietary hardware, making a commodity hardware, taking the software and making it software that runs on commodity hardware now, not everybody's got it right yet, because it's not native. I think they stripped it off the black box in some cases. So we need that to be cloud-native and written the right way, and we're working with our partners on that, but an absolute huge key to giving the control to the customer to be able to manage and change their services on the fly. I totally agree. I agree. I agree with you. And second that, I think there is a lot of the opportunity for this is to be more agile, allow customers more flexibility, more agility, enable services on their own without having to wait six months. Okay, thank you. Maybe we'll see if there's one question let's take from the audience. If you have any questions? If not, I'm gonna ask another panel question. All right, so one of the things I want to ask you guys is what are the key deficiencies of OpenStack that you have encountered in achieving your desired level of automation? You wanna go, Javi, first? Now that I have a microphone. Hopefully it works. So I would say deficiencies, because I know that all these technologies are in quick evolution, so it would be unfair saying that we perceive them as deficiencies, but it's obvious that there are things that are from a perspective missing, which are related to the kind of news, I mean, with the new set of use cases that we are as sales providers bringing on top of the table. And many of them have are related with the IO related workloads, which is not only being successful in the way that you assign resources in a pool, which is more or less part of the theory in computation, but it's also in the way that you break out those workloads and the way that you automate the interconnection of those workloads with the rest of the physical network, because in the end, you end up in a fiber, in a long-distance fiber, not in a data center fiber. And if you fail on the automation of that last step, you're automation very little because that leads again to a lot of manual labor, which is one of the points that you want to avoid. So that is one of the challenges, and the other is one that you can leverage on that, the appropriate modeling, so that you can repeat that process over and over. You have to consider, in our case, the telephonic case presented in over 26 countries, but obviously we don't reinvent the wheel in every single country. We sometimes try, but we try to make the things homogeneous. The more than we can leverage on a single experience, on a single evaluation, on a single testing to repeat it reliably, the more successful we are in that replication. And that requires, of course, automation. So for us, it are key, those two elements to give a step farther in that evaluation, in that deployment, because besides that, we have no doubts that the servers are perfectly capable of handling most of the workloads that we consider as relevant are capable of scaling at the locations where we consider that they might add value. We have no questions about the theoretical possibility of automating and creating appropriate templates for that, but it's just a matter of the delivery of the last step. We have hope, but we need to keep working on that. Okay. I'm okay. I think. The first thing I want to say is, if you don't contribute, don't complain. Seriously. I don't mind the complaints, they're okay, but make them constructive and get involved. Okay, that's what really needs to happen. I am so grateful for this OpenStack community for launching what it launched, because we could not have done this on our own. There's no way in this timeframe we could have done this on our own. So I am so grateful to the community. Now, with that said, now that we're getting back in the contribution game and we're doing good, my curve's going up this year, I do have a couple of things to say. So let's start with the foundation's ratings of some of the modules. It's a lometer, two out of eight. That's no good. It's got to get better and it's got to get better faster. It's too critical. The telemetry is too critical to what we do. The ability to have insight into those things has to happen. So that's one. Containers would be another one. So we're kind of talking about Magnum, we're kind of talking about other stuff and different ways of doing it. Not saying there only has to be one way, but there shouldn't be 20. We should lock into some things or at least some reusable assets that allow people maybe some freedom to do things their own way, but it would be limited. But it would be limited. And I would just have to come back to Neutron again for the last time. Anyway. Yeah, well, I'll just bang on Neutron as well. Okay. Now, certainly I think there's, again, OpenStack is a very useful tool in general and it's one tool. I think it's actually an incumbent on a lot of the things that surround it to deliver a full service. So again, I'll reiterate the salameter. I think telemetry in general is one of the kind of things that we see as a lacking. And we're, we don't contribute, unfortunately, but that's certainly some of the areas that we're looking to contribute in terms of requirements and specifications as well as just code. But I think there is certainly value there and things are moving rapidly. I think there's certainly more and more coming out of it. From a kind of a specific Neutron thing, I think one of the things that we try to integrate into our network that's not well supported in the Neutron environment is quality service and how to do bandwidth reservation and deployment of the various qualities in control path traffic that we want. That's one of the key areas that we're looking to help in. All right, good. May I add something about the contribution topic that perhaps is often misinterpreted and I'm certain that it's not the case, but I mean in economics, as you probably know, the most valuable is the most scarce. And in many cases, there are many types of contributions which happen that in this floor are happening in all the levels, almost all the levels, and I only can speak on behalf of Telefonica which has been contributing actively in all the levels, including the software for a long time. But I would say that there are many service providers that can afford contributing directly to the software. And I still have a deep respect for that and I particularly want to give an out on some service providers who have provided an extensive analysis of what are the application and the assessment that they made of OpenStack in some use cases that they wanted to deploy for real in the short term. And sometimes it has been misinterpreted and since it's not in our case, I can say it freely, as if they were saying that OpenStack was not valid for them or they gave up with OpenStack, it's exactly the opposite in my view. I mean, those inputs first, we have perceived in Telefonica as a very useful insight on things that we are not even considered. In use cases that we were considering as well for real and we haven't even noticed. And second is that for the common community that is reasonably IT related and most of the expertise is based on IT, they are extremely useful feedback. I have in my mind, for instance, the contribution from British Telecom, talking about the virtual CP for enterprise environment where they made very valid points and perhaps they are not contributing millions of lines of code. Not one. Or they are, but I think that putting in a comparing weight in this moment in time, what they are contributing in terms of knowledge is huge and it's extremely valuable and I understand that it should be perceived as something useful for the community and constructive. And I know that many others as providers are hesitant whether that kind of message would be perceived as a back off for the OpenStack community or not. And I would like to invite you to read them in a different manner, in a constructive manner of bringing them their experience to make things better. Yes, so obviously we disagree to some degree. We have a middle ground here. What I will tell you is that we have a small service provider event this evening. I can't invite everybody at the small one. A lot of C levels up here. And British Telecom's invited. So we would like to welcome them with open arms. We just want, I can pay a consultant for feedback, okay? So we want people with skin in the game and not just blood sucking. So that's about as blatant as I can be. Okay, I guess we are a little bit over time. Can we take one or two questions from the audience? If anyone wants to ask a question? Microphone. Hi. Hi. Question for all three of you, really. You mentioned with VNF vendors that you saw that they weren't maybe quite ready yet or at least a lot of them weren't ready yet. So what are the primary deficiencies that you see with the VNF vendors at this point? Well, I'll try to answer that. I think I brought that issue. So I think the things we're seeing and that this is improving fairly rapidly, but initial set of VNFs that we get were pretty much poured soft to direct what they had in their hardware environments. And they're not really set up to be, to scale well, to be separately deployed, to handle kind of HA as you would be able to handle it in a VNF virtual environment. I think these things are, again, improving. I think a lot of the VNF vendors are, let's say, cloudifying their VNFs to support this, but it's, again, early days for them as well. Thank you. You want to add? So that's a quick question. Oh, you don't have. Logistics is getting very complicated. Anyway, no, I would like to add a note on the VNFs because I think it would be fair for some and fair for others. We've, as you know, many of you know because it's public information. We've found a lot for a VNF evaluation with our 57 VNFs evaluated so far and keep counting for many purposes. And I would say that there are two big conclusions from my perspective. One is there's a lot of extremely serious stuff out there. Another that is they have not even given it a thought. And the second thing is that that degree of maturity is surprisingly unrelated to the size or the brand of the vendor behind. It's uncorrelated, which means that there are big vendors with excellent VNFs, big vendors with all four VNFs, and the other two combinations. And so we should be able to distinguish and to send the right messages to the VNF vendor community or what are the kind of things that we want to see. But that wouldn't be pessimistic because we are clearly seeing an evolution over the time on the maturity of the VNFs. And it's worth acknowledging that therefore it's happening at the industry level. It's actually happening for all of us, right? It's happening within all of our big businesses where we have to transform. And the same thing is true for the vendors in this case. So, that's all there. All right. Unfortunately, we're almost run out of time. The one thought I want to leave you guys with is there was a little boy who goes to a balloon vendor and ask if the red balloon is going to fly high. And the vendor says yes. And then he's asking whether the green balloon is going to fly high and so forth. The thing is, what the vendor said was it's not about the color of the balloon that makes it fly high. It's actually what's inside the balloon that makes it fly high, okay? And it's you guys. You are the community and the collaboration. That's what makes all of us fly high, okay? So, thank you so much. And thank you for all the panelists and it's a very good discussion. Thank you all.


Hello, and welcome to the Pride of India show. Our guest today is Ajay Sharma, director of Baddina Thairavidh Bhavan's Limited. Baddina Group is a pharmaceutical company which is known for its Ayurvedic medicines and skincare products. Started as a small unit in Bihar a century ago. The company has now expanded its operation worldwide. Welcome to the show, Mr. Sharma. Thank you. Mr. Sharma, please take us through the initial journey of Baddina, I think. I think you started way back in 1970, right? Well, that's a lot of time back, but my grandfather was a visionary, you know, and he actually hailed from a very small village in Rajasthan, which currently is in District Jaipur. And from there through Bihar, he actually in 1917, he set up this company in Calcutta. So we have been headquartered and head office in Calcutta since then and formerly officially as a company. And, you know, I guess the motivation for him at that time, what I read about Baddina, all his jeeveny we have and all the books and old people I have interacted with while growing up, I guess one of the first motivation definitely was to improve the financial status of his family. So he wanted to start a business. But the greater motivation for him was he was a nationalist. He wanted to do something for the country. And at that time, as you know, we were being ruled by the British crown and the people were opposing a part of the freedom movement in some way or the other. So I guess he took it up on himself to oppose the British through business. So in that way, these two motivational factors is what made him actually start Baddina and, you know, take it to such heights because that nationalism in him and to succeed as a business were two things which just kept him going. And I'm proud to say that today I'm the third generation and we still have that same vision and the same ethics in our organization. And we are now 100 years past from where we started. And we are still going strong with the same ethics. That's the beauty. And I'm proud to inform you that we are the largest manufacturers of Ayurvedic medicines in the world. Yeah, as you mentioned that you started when Britishers used to rule country. What were those challenges in the beginning? I mean, apart from investment. So I guess the biggest challenge for Ayurveda for a long period of time has been acceptability. So as we all know that, you know, in those days, there used to be or even till like today the marketing people still talk like that there are two Indians. One is the Bharat and one is the Indian. So the challenges of Bharat were different, you know, because how to reach down to the micro interiors, how to provide medication to the people in the villages where acceptability was there. And the challenge on the India front was altogether very different, which was the acceptability because they were falling the West and they would look down and downgrade anything which was Indian. So I guess these two challenges were the largest besides in Ayurveda, you know, the biggest challenge what we faced at that time to starting offers collection of the raw material because there was no organized agencies or, you know, groups who could actually go. So I do remember we do have it as written down that my grandfather, he is to lead, you know, expeditions to the Himalayas hunting for the raw material which today is now a very organized industry. So I guess these were the earlier challenges. And what about the investment part? I mean, you might not have needed in the beginning but maybe in the later years. So in, see, in investment, the moment you talk about investment, obviously they have been like traditionalists and most of these families from Rajasthan and Gujarat, you know, they have believed in being debt free. So they tried to bring in their own investments either through like families and connections. So I guess they're not both also in the same way till obviously when the banks started to grow and it started becoming more formal. So one started going for, you know, like debt from the bank and these kinds of things. Definitely we are still very traditional on our holding of the company that we still haven't gone like public. So I guess we do finance ourselves through our own means. How is the ire with the market evolved over the years? Now, I mean, we see a lot of, you know, high-end products at malls, airports, right? So a lot of changes happened in the sector. I guess, yeah, it's an evolution. It's a development. It's the acceptability of the science. It is getting exposed to the advantages of ire with the. So I guess this is all, first and foremost, I would definitely say it is that the government has helped us, this current government has helped us tremendously, this industry, you know, and especially through the ministry of Ayush. So earlier we never had a ministry for ire with, you know, and this ministry has actually put in a lot and given a structure to ire with as an industry. So with government support and with our own initiatives and see ire with has grown to a level where it should be. So I would still say that we are still not there, but we are, yes, we are now accepted. We are close to our goals where today, if you see, there is no product which does not like talk about ire with. That is the strength and why? Because it's not only marketability. It is the advantages in this product.  They want to go back to the nature. They have seen the ills of chemicals. They have. So, you know, there's a complete transformation in society and definitely the influences come from the West. So how I put it, if you ask me for ire with what worked actually was the yoga. So when the West accepted the yoga and they saw the benefits of yoga, I mean, this was external. They said they are the people that was the cohort which actually said, hey, there must be something in ire with them. And they started to experiment by application and then finally intake. And that influence has obviously come to India also. And otherwise, the input of the industry and the government has done a great job. A lot more still needs to be done. But yes, it has been a tremendous journey for us. I as you mentioned that ire with is now quite popular in Western countries as well. So which products are much in demand there? So like I told you, Kanchan, that it started with application. You see, initially people, they knew the advantages. But they didn't want to take it for internal take. So we started off with spas and Panchkar rooms and the oil therapy, the massages, then application on the skin. Then you go to the air and slowly, slowly, slowly, when they started seeing the advantages. Now people are open to even take like medication. And in fact, I'm very proud to share here that for 20 years we used to always hear the word called alternate therapy. That word today, in major of the Western countries has become ire with us. So that is a bright moment, you know, because instead of saying, I'm doing alternate therapy, now they all started saying, I'm doing ire with them. And I want to know more about ire with them. And how can we get more products of ire with them? So the challenge here for Bedinath here especially, see ire with us is doing well. The advantages of herbs and roots is now well known. There's a lot of R and D happening. Now Bedinath stood for treatment in ire with us. So while ire with us is growing, the benefits are reaching people, the treatment, it as a therapy, as a medication, you know, like a homeopathy is a treatment, ire with us as a treatment, allopathy is a treatment. That is still not accepted by, I think so 90% of the countries abroad. So that is now the biggest challenge what we face at Bedinath. And definitely with the support of the government, we should be able to do that too. How is the COVID broad changes in your approach? So two ways, let's look at COVID in two ways. One is definitely opening up of the market. Immunity is the word which brought ire with us to the forefront. Everybody knew the advantages ire with us had and how immunity was the most important thing as a preventive. So ire with us propagates first, like prevention, then cure and then rejuvenation. That is the three stages what ire with us and we are very big in preventive. So that is what opened up with immunity. Everybody realize that if you have a good immunity, your body can fight most of the ailments and diseases. So I guess immunity is what opened up ire with us and the markets and the benefits of ire with us. But on the business front, if you ask me, it was technology. Technology has overtaken everything. And we at Venerable also have been exposed and these two years, the way to do business and in everything technology has stepped in. So I guess it has been, it was challenging to start off with, but oh, we are enjoying the benefits of it right now. You mentioned immunity. Yes, so I remember Baba Ramdev, he launched COVID medicine also and formulation to prevent COVID in 2020 and 2021. But I have not heard about any of the bad enough products during COVID. So it's basically immunity. It's a marketing plan. So you want to target a particular ailment, you want to target the group of ailments, do you want to target immunity as a whole? So we stuck to our role of doing immunity as a whole. Because immunity is once it's there with the body, it can ward off a lot of ailments. So we can't, we didn't want to go specific as to immunity only for this. His drug was under controversy also everyone. Well, in business there would always be controversies but I guess that does not much to read in that. It is the core issue is about immunity. If any product or any herb or any medication which can build your immunity, I guess that is what we all are looking at. What are your plans for future now? Well, future like I told you that we have reached a stage where the future is bright, it is great, India also has opened up as a market. Globally, we are looking at a lot of improvements and so there now Ayurveda has reached a different dimension where we have different groups and cohorts and niche markets. So we at Bethnath have consciously decided to grow brands and product ranges and categories which address these like demands and niches. So you would be seeing a lot of brands coming out of Bethnath as an umbrella brand. And a couple of them are already there. We are doing well with great responses and a couple of them would also be introduced into the market, some for the Indian market and some for the Western market. We also heard that you have forwarded into liquid natural gas, is that true? Oh yes, so as a group, Bethnath is into, so when we are talking about Ayurveda soon, Ayurveda is definitely a mainstay. I mean, it's a family business, it's in our blood as they say. But yes, we do have a lot of like other activities in the group, so yes, LNG is one of them. What are your thoughts on leadership? Well, that's a very interesting question you asked me because it takes me back, I have just done a book which was released by Penguin Bookhouse and it's called How to Thrive in a Family Business and it talks a lot about the leadership in family businesses. So if you ask me, we all are leaders. You are somehow either leading a family a home, maybe in an organization, maybe in a trust, maybe in a club, maybe in your organization, maybe a company, maybe a country. Leadership is instilled and prevails in every human being. That's what I personally feel and I'm sharing with you. So a leadership style could be collaborative, it could be autocratic, it could be transactional, it could be transformational, or it could be Krishna. That is for you to choose in which organization, what kind of leadership you need to maintain and which is going to work there. But the core point, Kanchan, here is that there are some very basic skills. You don't need skills from out of the world. There's some very basic skills a leader should own and have and which makes him a leader which shines and a successful leader. And that I put down as one is very basic skill of communication. Two, I would say is you have to be ethical. Three, you have to be an innovator. If you're not innovative, you cannot, cannot be a successful leader. And the fourth, which I give is self-development. You have to be a little selfish here. If you don't grow, you will not be able to make the people under you grow. So I guess these are my four very strong points on leadership. Very nicely put through. Thank you for talking with us, Sharmaji. Thank you. Thank you very much, Kanchan. Thank you very much.