If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews In this motherfucking episode of Mind Pump Whoa, coming in hot everybody We have a great time Having talked and bullshitting for about 33 minutes.  Yes, that's right I'm white literally sunlight reflects off the ground and gives him a sunburn We talked about transitioning from being a crappy trainer and those of us that still haven't transitioned to a good trader Yeah, we talked about our bulking stories. You're not gonna want to miss that.  That's kind of cool and skewed body perception That's actually a pretty cool part of that beginning part of the episode then we get into the questions The first question is what do we think about these hybrid athletes? So we're mixing bodybuilding with endurance events like triathlons. Can you be successful at both of them or is it stupid? Exactly, then we talk about what we envy most about each other for example Justin's pale beautiful white skin. You love it. Love it. Yeah, then we talk about how When we have when we have guests on fucker when we have guests on the show How open-minded do we have to be basically how cool are we with our guests because sometimes we disagree or most of Time we disagree with some of the stuff that our guests say and then finally in true mind-pump fashion We give our opinion on something. We have zero expertise in I love doing that We predict the McGregor Mayweather fight which is coming up. That's right. Get your bets in. I'll be honest It's pretty good. Finally. There's only two days left for our discounted price on our new program maps prime Pro this is a truly Correctional program that covers the wrist the neck the lumbar spine the hips The ankles and the toes actually goes in and breaks those areas down and shows you Correctional movements to give you better recruitment patterns to alleviate pain If you're a personal trainer or someone in the industry Where you're treating patients or helping people deal with pain or even just getting better shape Prime Pro is a very valuable tool now that regular price When all is going to be said and done as a hundred and sixty seven dollars well right now It's discounted because we just launched it And that sales gonna end in two days So if you're interested in the program now is the time to get it the place to get it is mind-pumpmedia.com T-shirt time How many reviews Douglas fold them and throw them 26 reviews. Oh, you know why you know why I love it.  You know who did something I thought that was pretty clever that we should all do at one point is I saw Connor do this So kudos to our boy Connor who actually He did it on his podcast his pleasure monkey. Yeah, shout out also shout out to our buddy Kyle Kingsbury who just released the mind pump episode on his podcast current space So if those of you guys that just are not getting enough mind pump five days a week in one YouTube a day It's not enough for you. You can head over to current space and listen to us on there Or you can head over to podcast or pleasure monkey here's there But what Connor did was he actually put it on his insta story Each you know go to the review click what you basically step people through talking. He showed it visually on his phone I thought that was pretty clever. There you go. So 20 something reviews means we're giving away. How many shirts seven shirts? Yeah, a lot of shirts is gonna be pissed. Yeah. Well too bad Sorry about that. All right. I'm gonna read these off and Nishime Megan J fit Marshall four five five Mikey buns 33 sleepless in sack Tommy Roback and L wetback Please send a message to iTunes at mind pump media comm include the name I just read as well as your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that right out to you Yo, yo, yo, don't trip chocolate chip Adam always Lena is in the motherfucking house. We're going we're going straight. We're going straight gangster today Selena Selena's Like hold my headphone on one side close my eyes. Should we just come on a lot of love I can't do the Selena song. Sorry. You guys don't know Selena. Wow. You guys don't know Selena I didn't till now. No, bitty bitty bum bum.   Yeah Selena was the She was the originator of that whole thing. She had a massive Glutial area. I don't shake a bomb. I don't shake a bomb. I thought I thought I thought J. Lo came before Selena Not Selena Gomez who are you thinking of?   You call yourself Mexican? You don't even know who Selena is no I don't that's why I'm a Selena. It's it. That's all her name is.  Did you watch it? Yeah? Yes, dude Prince Madonna and Selena I don't know Selena Selena was she was American, but she was his Mexican and She's saying song in are you thinking of Shakira?  I don't know I don't know why I'm so offended right now. I don't need your Google help real soon here because I don't know I don't know do you okay J. Lo played her in the movie Selena remember? I've heard of Selena.  No, there's a son. There's a couple popular English songs that she's saying that we're popular on the charts when we were kids Oh, what's the fuck? I can't remember.  That's right Yeah, she was a young girl sweet girl.  I can't believe you know there. She is I Literally can't that's the movie on her. I can't like Point out any one of her songs though like I've heard of her bite I don't know. I'm so angry because I can only think of her Spanish songs. That's what I was just singing right now There she is so Selena is originally who made big butts cool before J. Lo is what you're saying I think big butts have been cool for a long time I think there's a long history of coolness With big butts, but Selena was do you think so? Yeah, I believe there was a surmix a lot I would that's a good point. That's a very good point. He definitely played He definitely played a role. He did like big butts. Yeah, he was quite honest. He did lie. He was very honest about it It's such a bad dad joke. No, no, dude.  I'm gonna find a song. I was honest Oh When are we gonna have that the game show where like mean you have like the dad joke off here Here's one of my favorite songs of hers. It's in Spanish though This gets me in a mood Yeah, I grew up in San Jose motherfucker.  Oh I got here the lyrics. Did she sing quiet? Damn it.  I do remember hearing this in the back Mini mini lot of taqueria.   He's racist. Oh, just by default. I guess you have to be no I'm just kidding. You're not but listen.   Whoa, I do it real real fresh back when freaking You got real fresh.  You were a virgin till you're right now Fresh isn't a heavy petting heavy. He's right here. He was the finger blaster Oh Lot of dry humping to that song Lot of home quick draw touch finger blast touch it through Touch it through my jeans The power drill he's like 19.  You know, it's funny about this we were with I need to let the audience know we were with all of us together We're we met with dr. Ruscio up in Sausalito and gorgeous location and Justin literally I'm not even exaggerating stayed in the shade the entire time He got he got some in accurate He got some burn in his face from the small amount of radiation that reflects off of the objects apparently Yeah, I don't realize someone could be that sensitive. No, it's not how it went down. Okay? We're a hat for a reason so I walked outside.   Yeah, I never thought it was hasn't seen the light in a while You know, I gotta introduce it. I have to like I'd have to sit on top of the Sun for that to happen I would have to wear a baby oil Tan bastard. I would have to lather up a baby oil to get that right All of us are like I like that. Okay, so do you Justin? Do you get any type of? Like beneficial adaptation from the Sun or is it all damaged like from no It just takes like a lot of like really slow incremental like exposure. Okay, so like okay So here's what you're doing like I need to paint. I need to understand this. Yes. Oh, it's sunny outside What are we gonna do? This is what Justin does.  Yeah, he probably doesn't listen.   He is. No, he was I liked him though chiropractor another I Have ran into more smart chiropractors Yeah, and the last year then I have my my previous 15 years in the industry crazy to me Yeah, maybe maybe it's not interesting. Yeah, we seem to be like like magnets for these smart chiropractors Yeah, I think what don't they talk about this in the secret. Yeah, we're trying Through it out there. I'm like why are all these why all these have like a handsome good-looking people like are coming around me all of a sudden Hmm. I'm attracting it. Yeah. No, I think it's because of our our podcast That we're meeting people who are you know like minded. Yeah, probably not even just like minded. I think It's not even necessarily the like-mindedness. It's just a lot of these chiropractors That we've met lately are forward-thinking and just doing what works.  No, not just you But I mean you in particular, but definitely other people not gonna include himself in this Just you and you guys, right? I was a bad trainer for a couple weeks when I first started No, I mean if you think about honestly like you go back 10 years 10 years or 15 years ago Well for me 15 because I started before you guys but 10 years ago even a lot of the shit that I said and did was wrong Well, I was just gonna ask you if we're if we're being completely honest with ourselves When would you say when did you really feel like you were a really good trainer or you felt like you were really truly? Making a difference in helping people. When did you feel that? Did you have a moment where you went fuck? I think I'm really breaking through. So both you and Justin were trainers Much longer than I was because I started as a personal trainer. I quickly got into sales Managing trainers for a short period of time. So I was a fitness manager for I Don't I think four months and then I went to sales and then I became a general manager So I did a lot of and my passion was fitness has always been my passion I always consider myself a trainer first manager second only because I loved fitness from from that particular standpoint Which is I think one of the reasons why I was effective with the trainers that work for me But I trained trainers for a long period of time. I didn't train clients then when I Sold I excuse me left corporate fitness or whatever the big box gyms Then I bought my wellness facility and that's when I became a personal trainer and and really did that for a long time And I'll I'd say probably I Wouldn't consider myself like good until maybe a Maybe ten years ago eight to ten years ago where I was starting to get really good At personal training, but it wasn't it was really a product of the people I surrounded myself with Luckily, I was because I own that facility and I kind of had this vision of having a facility with all these different modalities of people with different viewpoints Kind of by accident is I knew to build a business if I did that that would be more successful So I even though I disagreed with the people that worked in my gym half the time I was open-minded enough and and you know welcoming enough to accept them in so I had like I had this physical Therapist who was also a holistic life coach and did gut testing and food intolerance testing Then had a massage therapist that was totally into like the spiritual side of things and when I first met them I was like you guys are cool great people you guys have good intentions lots of your side.  You're saying but whatever But you know what because I worked with them and I kind of respected them little by little I started kind of learning from it and that's when I became a better trainer I don't know if I would have necessarily advanced had I not been surrounded by them I mean look how fast we've advanced with mine pump because of all the people we've been exposed to what do you think? What do you think was the most? You know we talk about our paradigm being shattered. What do you think was the hardest thing for you to break? Like I know we talk about small meals. We talk about protein. We talk about all these things For me like personally for example, I did not try and lean out, right? until I was 28 or 29 years old so I spent 29 years on the bulk literally Like literally like literally spent 29 years bulking never once did I really truly go on a longer than a couple weeks of calorie restricting and dieting to lean out because I was so insecure about being small skinny That I would I would rather be looked at as bigger thicker with a little bit of fat than Small and lean and potentially ripped so dude.  Some of the biggest ways you could insult me right especially when I was training like that once I was working towards it And I was working a way to try and build muscle to call me skinny or small or little or lean like I had that complex for sure But I didn't realize how important it would be for me to actually go on a Leaning out process For my overall journey and it took me a very very long time to break through those insecure I mean I was the kid when I was younger I remember I went through a phase of the like the triple shirts Did you ever go through that where I wear a wife beater a t-shirt than another t-shirt? Oh, man And when I junior high yeah, and when I think about it what why would you do that as a kid?  Let me ask so here's it. Here's this is interesting for basketball and you get like little stick arms, right? You know here's something else that's for so when I was lifting weights and I started lifting it like you know I said like consistently 13 14 years old a Lot of the guys that I knew the friends of mine that I knew that lifted weights did it because they wanted the attention of girls I Did not lift weights for girls at all I lifted weights because I wanted other guys to think that I was stronger and bigger I could give a shit about I already I always had attention from girls That was never a problem for me because I had a you know I need man I can talk and I always I realized in an early age if I walk to me I could talk and like talking was Was pretty effective at getting girls attention hello, and it was like That Kermit voice It was no it was because I felt like But yeah, that's what that's why I lift their weights.  I don't want abs. Yeah, I don't want to be big.  I would much rather which is also. I Mean I remember I would see the scale go down Like if I just laid off the throttle for a day or two, you know if I and that would freak me out like oh my god I lost three pounds last night. Like I got it And I couldn't get I really if I was training I couldn't get fat It was just you know was a thicker, you know Then I was when I then I wasn't paying attention to it I don't okay So what's the what's like the fattest you achieved do you think well when you were not working out? So I'm talking about when you were actively lifting and bulking so the irony, right? It is if it and it was like a total blessing and disguise for me to Move over into the cannabis industry for a couple years because I became Heavily I've always been money motivated, but at this point in my life. I made a decision on I'm gonna do something Purely for the money I have no real passion for it desire for it But I see the potential and the amount of money that I can make and I'm going to bury myself in it Like that was the mentality.  I actually felt I've never hanging off.  No, I didn't have that.    Yeah, for me. It was I was managing the 24-hour Santa Teresa and I had DJ dens more Was my you guys know DJ.  He was my AGM He had moved over from the fitness manager position and then Ryan DeVita Who you guys met the other day was my fitness manager and The three of us were like buddies right we're boys and of course when you're a general manager of your club Those are those are kind of like your right and left-hand person right your fitness manager and your assistant manager And you work with other leaders in your gym, but those tend to be your your closest people So the three of us ended up started we started to lift weights together and we're all pretty big strong dudes Ryan definitely The most genetically gifted in that department in terms of size And we were in my office one day and we were talking about how who can gain the most size and so I said hey Let's do it.      I love it Yeah, so I would literally I'd have a bucket of chicken in my office And I I'd page them through the intercom like attention 24 fitness, you know staff, you know Ryan and DJ to Sal's office.   So we would do this back and forth then I drink weight gainers with my food to wash things down I remember doing the same I got my body weight and remember I'm a six foot guy I don't have like a big bone structure You know, I'm not I'm relatively narrow. I'm probably I'm definitely more ectomorph than anything bird like yeah I got I got my I got my my body weight up to like 238 pounds or something like I got 190 right now, right?   I was like I'm just getting big and I was strong I got really strong to and I can get strong if I stuff myself with food, but Who was it?   I was probably 27 year old dude And I got out of breath within five minutes on this on the stationary bike. I remember thinking like oh, no That was the bike does that was the big indicator for me when I did the same thing I was I was bulking up so aggressively and I got up to about 235 In the morning right naked first thing like I was and then I would push beyond 240 in the day Because when you're that big when you're 230 you can stuff your food Oh, you're you're fluctuating 10 plus pounds a day Yeah, like you're you're you're consuming 10 pounds of food and water. Yeah, you have 10 pound poops, right? So here so I remember teaching at that time I had boot camps and it was pretty pretty common for me to Run a lap with the ladies and warm up and then stretch them out and like, you know That was kind of like what I did right and they're most of them are like 55 plus years old so I should be able to smoke most of them around the track and I would now at this time I had kind of stopped doing that and they all knew why because I was bulking I was like, oh, I can't run, you know, because I don't want to burn any extra calories I need to make sure right. It was consuming that much Yeah, well, I saw exactly so I couldn't do it just not doing it And then we just walk around a wheelchair all the time and then after I had bulked up lean on this post To the highest I'd ever been I decided, okay Now it's time to start leaning out and I remember the first lap I ran with them and I'll never forget Inside just grimacing and trying not to let them see it and like my shins were on fire I was gasping for it. I thought oh my god. This is one lap around the track I can't believe I feel this way and I remember getting getting done and going whoa I talk about signs that you're pushing the body beyond where it wants to be and That forever has stuck with me and and anytime I do I start once and for me It's about 225 when I get beyond 225 I start to notice those signs and you know, I'm dealing with it again right now It's really funny how you know, I got up to 225 pretty quick and now from here on out It's a struggle for me to add weight and add size and I start to notice all these little things I notice my stool. I notice Just my stomach feeling full and below at all time.  I remember the first time I saw like pro bodybuilders. I went to the like in person.  He's like six eight like Three hundred and sixty pounds Massive it was just like an ogre. Yeah, like he would just eat like everything. Have you seen him lately? I mean when's the last time you see yeah, he lost weight and then he was actually in my wedding I don't know if you remember, but like I had like a bunch of big dudes.   It was miserable, dude I used to I would lift Weights and then there's that hometown buffet. That's not that yeah from the Hillsdale I crushed some of those. Yeah, and I'd lift and then I go to hometown buffet and you want to talk about You want to have a lifting to failure? I used to eat to failure. Yeah, like I go to hometown buffet and it was like I'm gonna push beyond the point of like it's literally training to do that to get that size Bro, I would fight back puking so I would fight back the fat like the urge to throw up because I ate so much So the bad is that the irony in all this is You know, it's the same thing on the other side, too So, you know, we're expressing what it was like being skinny guys with a complex of you know Being little and trying so hard to be big. I find that when I had clients that had been heavy their whole life or overweight They're doing all the other extremes starving the body Training super running cardio super hard doing everything they can and it's pretty crazy how you know The grass is always green on the other side or how we always tend to gravitate towards this this these habits and that tend to be bad for us and You know, those people are scared to death like lift some heavy-ass weight or fuel the body with some extra nutrients That maybe they don't actually like they would benefit a lot from like some serious heavy training because how quick their body would Probably put some mass and size on which in turn would end up speeding their metabolism But they're scared to death to do that when I when I talk to people now about have a best friend like that That's crazy when I talk to people now about nutrition stuff. I Really try to relate to them by remembering what it was like to be in my own body During that period of time where you are literally Here's you okay, so last night Me and me and my girlfriend are discussing just how Insidious our own Consciousnesses and how unaware we are of certain things and like like I said like when I was in that state of mind I was so unconscious of my distorted perception of myself and it's interesting We I actually pulled up on YouTube if you guys ever want to trip out over some crazy experiments look up The split brain experiments or split brain patients. These are people who had intractable epilepsy and one of the one of the Surgical procedures to save them was to sever the corpus callosum Which is the the bundle of nerves that connects the right and left hemisphere, so they'll sever that part of the brain so now the right and left side of the hemisphere don't communicate with each other and Otherwise, they're healthy. They can function normally in society, but then they'll do these interesting experiments where They will show the person a Picture in the in the right field of vision and I'm not sure if I have the right the right side here But you'll you get the idea They'll show them a picture of like a car and the right side of their like to the right eye and they'll ask them Do you see anything?  I wouldn't be able to rationalize myself I was so deep in it. Well, what I said when I'm I was looking at myself in the mirror And I did not see a fat guy. I did not see that so weird Yeah, and it took the physical feedback for it to cut for me to actually start to connect those dots I mean it it blew me away that I didn't watch that or see that coming now when I look back at pictures and I compare and contrast I'm like wow It's so crazy how we let these insecurities that are rooted from like our childhood Carry over into what dictates how we treat our bodies going forward and it's on both sides So like I said, we're talking about people that it's the same thing It's just different, but it's the same thing how many times have you guys had a female client that will You know bring a picture from when they were younger. I this is my favorite thing to do by the way Yeah, I'll have a female client who talk about how they want to lose weight and whatever and some of them will bring me a picture And be like this is back the glory days. Yeah, this is back before I had kids look how amazing I looked I'm gonna look like this now again, and then I'll ask them I'll say if we went back in time to that point How did you feel about your body then like oh, I thought I was so fat and I wait for them to fucking make that connection like At that time you thought you were so fat And now you're looking at it and saying that's what I want to look like and it's like this is this is what's you're still in this state you're in the state where your Perception of yourself is so distorted and so not based on any reality And we need to fix that before we use that as a motive as a motivator for your fitness and nutrition And that's so wrong and you first have to connect that before you then start talking about all the other things right before you start Talking about what is best for your body?    Yes, right the bird Today's quads being brought to you by Chimera coffee It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural Neutropics for a cleaner calmer and more focused buzz without the crash Put the Chimera link at mind pump media comm and input the discount code Mind pump a check out for 10% off All right, the first question is from Eric Barnes 51 What do you think about these new hybrid athletes that mix bodybuilding with endurance events like triathlons? Can you be successful at both? So two questions here? What yeah, what is this? What is this? Spartan are we talking about well? No, I think they're just referring to and I'm not familiar with I don't I don't necessarily see this trend But they're talking about You know people who are like trying to build muscle mass But then also want maximum endurance and they're competing in like he said or like she said Triathlons, but the second question is because the first question is what do I think about it? And this or what do we think about in the second question is can you be? Successful about so question number one. What do I think about it?  No, probably not be because you can be Okay Are you gonna win bodybuilding competition and win a trial we have that we had to define but is it possible? Absolutely, it's possible. Is it likely that you are going to be in the Upper 10% of each of those categories. That's less likely right that you're you could be a successful athlete And a successful bodybuilder and do a hybrid of the both and be fine But it's they're they're conflicting modalities. You're asking your body to Give to give you two adaptations that don't necessarily especially when you're pushing those adaptations what you won't be and is It can I have everything you will most certainly not be able to be an endurance athlete The best endurance athlete and the best bodybuilder at the same time. That's impossible You'd have to be a genetic like freak of nature. We haven't seen that yet. You won't be both You're so extreme. They're so different like I think you could be a successful powerlifter and bodybuilder But there's they're closely related. That's more similar. Yeah, exactly Because on the one end I'm asking my body to Build maximal muscle size and on the other hand I'm asking my body to become extremely efficient It doesn't benefit you running all day long, right on an endurance Challenge so it's yeah, you're giving your body mixed signals now I do believe what do they call it Matt like a Jack-of-all-trade or a master of none or something like that. Yeah jack of all trades ace of none So what you could do and I believe I'm in a position to do this right now where I go on a kick where I Decided that I'm this bodybuilding guy work my way up become a pro. I'm good at it I would consider myself better than the average person at it So I could say that I've had success I'm doing air quotes right now in bodybuilding and now I decide I'm going to go on a Journey to become great at you know OCR and triathlons and endurance type stuff I absolutely can start training my body that direction to live in both at the same time and And be successful at both at the same time is very unlikely and you don't remind me of it reminds me of You know when you play video games to the only person that can do this Bo Jackson Man he did football and baseball. Yeah, I could do anything, but that's what but I mean It's like one isn't gonna take away from no, that's that's that was a very good joke. Yeah, thank you But if you look at it reminds me of video games, you know when you have to pick an avatar like a fighting game And they give you like 50 points my analogies They give you like 50 points and you have to like use so many points for each attribute like strength Yeah, and you can't give all 50 to strength because if you do then you have none of the other ones and So turn into Dosh lawn, you know Doss lean Did you guys by the way? Do you guys know that they have here in San Jose? They have street fighter tournaments right now. No, where you pay. I swear to God, dude You pay 25 and her you pay 25 bucks and you can win like $500. Oh, yeah Who's your guy? Mine's Kyle. I could beat you with any of them. No any guy bold statements You pick the guy for me, and I'll beat you yet Weird because I've eaten you every video game we have here. You've never played a lot of confidence there I'm the strike. I was humbled this weird. I was humbled this weekend in the in the the Delta I raced my brother-in-law who has a little beer gut on him and he's like good eight inches shorter than me like and he was running no swimming oh swimming and He was talking a mad game, and I was like dude.  I mean my brother-in-law. He's I almost be like those college athletes So that why do you think I was talking shit?  I like him kind of What had happened was we were it so the devil anyone is familiar with the Delta a good pie to eat sometimes Yeah, God, it was a little humble. No, it was awful what I will tell you this I mean the competitive side of me I was like we will do this in a pool just so you know so like I will not settle for Allowing after I'm you swam in the Delta. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that right and I always feel like I'm gonna like Swimming swim into a condom and let me tell you let me tell you where this is a definite advantage to somebody who And here's where technique matters in a situation like this So my dumbass thinks that be forget the technique forget all that I'm I'm gifted enough that I could pretty much be Most people that I talked shit to right or at least I thought well My brother-in-law also was a competitive swimmer even though he's much smaller in frame I definitely have the the the better genetics for swimming and probably in a little bit better shape than he is right now He's still Competitively hung with me and we were like bumping into each other. I couldn't see under the water. I'm like swollen Delta water I can't see I don't know how to tilt my head very well I'm swimming so like after he hit me twice in the face He didn't use Sal's pericyclines.  How's your uh, how's your gut right now swallowing that Delta water? I don't know dude. I don't know if that was that or getting my getting beat by my brother-in-law was was worse I don't know which one so shout out to to him for for his swim his swim skills Yeah, but you know to bring it all back to bring it all back You can compete in both and you can get better at both But if you're the the more specialized you are with your training the better the results are for that particular Specialization the more generalized your training is The less you're gonna get in a particular attribute for a particular goal quick commercial break you guys We keep getting asked all the time. How can I support the mine pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can you guys love that Chimera coffee that we have Chimera coffee with a K You go to Chimera coffee comm put in the discount code mine pump for 10% at the checkout Also, if you guys want to know how I have this luxurious beard and you want one too Go to bigtopbeardcompany.com put in the discount mine pump again, but this time for 33% off Also, you guys if you guys have not tried Ben Greenfield's new bars out there fantastic If you want some go to Ben Greenfield fitness.com forward slash nature bite put in the code Minepuppet get 10% off go check it out Callan M. Cooper What do you envy most about each other and what steps do you take each day to gain that? Which you envy oh I don't like the word envy because Okay, I don't I don't I think respect or yeah, I admire Cuz I don't envy I try not to envy people I'm sure I do at some point, but I I try to envy people because then it's a that's a bad feeling. That's jealousy. That's It's a negative thing. It mayors. Yeah, there's definitely actually like like Justin's glorious glutes. I Definitely admire. No Really what I admire with you guys. I'll tell you I admire Justin's ability to Just step outside of his comfort zone. I've never met anybody So okay with doing that you can I mean and you can tell he's uncomfortable when he does it But that makes it that's what makes it admirable If it wasn't I agree I think I'd hundred percent agree. I've never placed myself in positions as uncomfortable as I've seen Adam Justin put himself in positions and he Almost seems like he seeks it out which is extremely admirable because I know that doing that is what forces growth and It's something that since meeting Or working with Justin. It's something that I've tried to do more of is put myself in situation Because I'm very I can be very I can stay in my safe zone very very easily and just avoid things. I'm not comfortable with It becomes a habit of mine.  I am comfortable In certain situations, I should say or I feel like I'm good in certain situations But not necessarily just walking into a crowd Adam seems to do it With ease very seems very comfortable when he does it. So I tend to watch In certain circumstances and observe and pick up and learn From the techniques that he does that maybe he does very naturally But I watch and try and pick up on those so I say those are the two that come to my mind first Yeah, no, I would I would definitely agree with you about Adam I think too with Adam like just his ability to read people and like sort of see there how to meet them and match their their energy and kind of Persuade in not not like a creepy way, but persuade them in a certain way that He can get his point across and you know, it's it's it's masterful to see sometimes But yeah, and then Sal just your Just your your ability to articulate information For one and and just like the confidence that you exude That's not like arrogant, you know, I don't know how you do it, but it is something that like it's contagious So, you know, I think a lot of myself now, you know, just being around you And and that's not even a bad thing, you know, it's just like, you know Like why not, you know, why not care yourself that way? So, you know, I do I admire that quite a bit and Doug is well, I'm gonna include into this Just is his positive attitude while working like I've never seen anybody work in my life. He's dealing with us Mr. He's a soldier. He's the Iron Man consistent. Exactly. He gets the Iron Man award Yeah, for sure for mine pump 100% so yeah, that's great You know, it's funny about Sal that you said that and I couldn't agree more and it's funny because recently You know, I've met a couple people that that are either close to me or a friend of a friend and It's funny when I hear some people's perception of him because he because he speaks in certainties That when they meet him, I never do And Because of that I've actually had a lot of people that were totally surprised by Meeting him when I don't think it's surprising at all. I think he's extremely humble an incredible communicator In a lot of people think that he's gonna be this kind of pompous Arrogant type of guy, which is so funny to me because what I find most admirable about him is his humility His ability to be so confident so intelligent hold the conversation with pretty much anybody in any field And and do that confidently but not arrogantly and I think that is such a rare rare thing I've met lots of brilliant minds lots of lots of intelligent people in In the fitness world and outside of the fitness world and something that is common with most all of them with that Confidence comes this arrogance so I can understand why some people Assume or think that oh, he's probably like that because he's really smart and he talks in certainties And he rattles off studies all the time so but it's funny to me when they they're so surprised like man Sal is such a really nice humble sweet guy. I'm like, what did you think he was gonna be like this? He come off like an asshole on the show because I think I come off more like the asshole on the show I think sometimes people's perception of us on here because of maybe the roles that we play as far as this team Like I definitely think that each of us Doug included You know, we have our point guard our center our power forward or whatever sport you want to compare to But when you get to know all of us We have a very good understanding of all the positions and can play them all pretty well But on the on the show we tend to gravitate towards our position if that makes sense And so Sal has this, you know, we have definitely he has put himself out there as the Almost like the center of attention a lot of time But not because he he needs this center of attention because we all recognize that he presents our message Better than any of us could individually and I think to me that's one of the most admirable things It's a lot of a lot of pressure comes with that position to be the one who always speaks up or counters or You know, it's not afraid to take on any debate or argument no matter how Intelligent the other person is he has this ability to do that and do it confidently without ever wavering To me, that's incredibly admirable and I think that a lot of people even misunderstand how humble He is while he does all that to me.  Extremely humble and I think that in my opinion of all the brilliant minds and people and humans I've been around I think he represents that More than almost anybody I know I think Justin also has a very quiet powerful humility about him that I always tried to be something that Justin does really well That I think is why we made good partners even before mine pump his He represents the side of me that I need to be more of which when I get in a situation I am I am quick to talk in a room or that that's a strength of mine Which I always talk about your greatest strength is your greatest weakness and I recognize that and sometimes I need to shut the fuck up and just sit in the room and listen and observe and Justin does this very well, you know A lot of people think he's quiet or shy sometimes when he's not that at all In fact, what he's doing is he's observing everybody's body language their responses their attitude and And he's making his own assessment on this person's character Which also makes us an incredible team because he mentioned before about my ability to read character a lot of times I'll vocalize that afterwards and I'll be able to get his feedback on the things that he was observing and seeing and I can rely on it as very accurate because I know that's what the fuck he was doing He wasn't just sitting in the room twiddling his thumb or engulfed in the conversation that he wasn't paying attention He was very much so paying attention. He was assessing everything that was going on So the collaboration of the two of us together to do that becomes very powerful and another very dangerous Dynamic between the two of us right So just just so you know And so I'm always striving to be better about that I'm trying to be Better and more like him in that area and since Justin did throw Doug in there.  I don't know if I could be a really good dad Well, this is why we this is why we call him that is and I and I recognize that that you know I don't know how I would do if I had three knuckleheads that were that knew nothing really about fitness that we're Want to argue anyway, right that we're constantly arguing with me on what's the best way for us to do things Wow, does that take a lot of humility? Wow, does that take a lot of self-control and discipline and then for his ability to Maneuver with all of us doing that constantly Obviously speaks to a lot of the success that mine pup has so Again, and that's kind of similar to some of the things that Justin I think that's something I'm Striving to be more like on on a daily basis my favorite is when Doug lets us go off on our tangents like we do all the time So we'll just go off on these ideas and like we're and that's what we do really well as we come up with Random ideas and then don't be like, you know, that's a good idea But what we should probably focus on is on this thing here that we said we were gonna focus on and he's just really cool About it like and we're always like oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's good, but he lets us get it out You know I'm saying he lets us like verbalize what we're gonna verbalize Well, and he's it to me doesn't get pissed off doesn't know I think that one of one of the things that I really appreciated about him when we first all got together was He recognized that part of the the brilliance or the unique and what was special about The three of us together was allowing that flexibility and freedom So even if he doesn't always a hundred percent agree with us. He does he's smart enough and intelligent enough to see that I don't want to Suppress any of the creativity of allowing that freedom and so he has this mentality of I'd rather them You know give them more latitude and probably make some bad decisions They're like a father figure right kind of gives you that little bit of room to learn on your own get burned a couple times Run into a couple brick walls to figure out Maybe that wasn't best because somebody who tries to control a situation like in ours so much Could actually end up suppressing or hindering the it wouldn't work if someone tried to control us Loose cannons, but you do have a lot of good ideas. So I'll go with it. Now. I think I want to hear dog I want to hear I want to hear do you have it? Do you have an assessment of each one of us? There's because I think you have the coolest perspective Of all of us too. Is there something about each person in this room? That you admire and that you strive to to apply to your life Yeah, absolutely. And I think some of it's a reflection of what's already been mentioned. I'll start with Justin Justin his sense of humor. I appreciate his spontaneity and his ability to get a really good joke out or he has a Incredible ability to take on different characters and voices and that type of thing Which you probably really appreciate because you have a background in in comedy and doing things like that, too, right? Yeah, absolutely, and we appreciate that Justin you do Make me laugh a lot which is great and I like to laugh Sal again that memory of yours and the ability to express it I think that's one of the things I wish I would do is sometimes just get out of my head and just speak from my heart and I feel Sal one of the things that you do really well is you don't focus on so much how you're saying something but the message that you're trying to get across and Because of that you don't get caught up in okay Am I saying this exactly the right way or whatever the case may be and it comes out great I would say that the same thing applies to you Adam as well the bowl in the china shop thing Sometimes I feel like I could use some more of that just that Willingness just to be bold and let things fly and not give a rat's ass about what I say so much because you know You don't worry about oh am I pronouncing all the words right am I always using the words in the correct context? No, but it doesn't matter, you know, there's many times I could say oh Adam you could say mentality Instead of mentality or whatever else I could correct you But I don't want to do that because number one it doesn't really matter right and number two is You're out there in the field, you know, you're the one in the game, right? You're expressing yourself and so I just want you to have free reign with that so I am I guess you'd say envious I don't know envious, but I admire I admire all those traits in all of you Very cool. Cool. All right next up is Hope Granger Who is asking how open do both parties have to be when a guest comes on mind pump with conflicting views such as Lane Norton and the Iif ym so and they brought up other examples too of how we had guess, you know Like Paul check and how extremely holistic or you know that spiritual side and you know how we have guests that come on that We don't necessarily Meet eye-to-eye with on everything like how I guess how open-minded do we have to be do we have to be Well, I you know We're we're developing a reputation for Being great hosts. This is every single person we've interviewed. This is something we take pride in we don't share this very often But people will tell us how we're really great hosts because we allow people we give people the space To be who they are even if we disagree with what they're saying I would argue that this is the thing that we are all probably most proud of if we were to Not also add the forum in there I think the forum in this are two things outside of off-radio that we discussed that we take a lot of pride in What we've built so far and how much we want to continue to grow and better that The environment that we've built on the forum and then that ability that I all of us We all want if I don't care who the guest is how famous how well-known whatever But I want you to know that when you come on mine pump that when you leave you go like Dan That was the best interview I've ever done like and we've we have received that From a majority if not all of our guests and that to me is something that we all strive We definitely want to feel comfortable because I mean you they're not going to be able to really Convey their true self if they're in a hostile right environment in situation. And so yeah, we're definitely That's our first thought process is like how can we Sort of break this this barrier that this front that they're coming in with even if they they're coming in with a different view We want to kind of relate first and Get get them to kind of engage and then we'll go from you know what I'm glad this came up because this was actually on my mind the other day and I've been meaning to get it off my chest and talk about this because we had gotten some feedback in regards to Like recent episode like oh you guys sound like you guys kissed his ass or you sound like this a little bit and Sometimes I feel like I even I feel like that I listen to it.  Well, I'll respect that I'll respect the fact that like I'll tell you what if Who's the guy that runs shreds that started shreds? Oh, Arvid Arvin Arvin, right?   I respect That he was able to start from nothing and create this brand that got real popular He's obviously know something and I want guests to know that they could come on the show And we we may debate them We may You know challenge them a little bit, but we respect them So it's okay if we disagree and this is life by the way Well, a perfect, you know, this is life life is like this You're gonna disagree with people people are gonna disagree with you. Yeah, that's okay That's fine. If they're not hurting you they're not stealing from you Then we can discuss things and disagree on things and respect each other's ability to express Our opinion. It doesn't mean that the end of it.  I guarantee you I we we disagree on that wholeheartedly. We still disagree on that and we can debate and discuss it all day long I still respect the guy. I respect him quite a bit respect some of the stuff. He does he respects mind pump He's comfortable. He's welcome to be on the show Paul check is another individual individual paul check. I respect tremendously I've referred to him as the godfather of wellness Some of the stuff he says goes way over my head Some of the stuff he says I'm like wow, I don't know what you're talking about and I'll say that to him and I actually did I actually tell him Hey, man Uh, some of that sounds crazy.  I respect that But there's also listeners who may gain some insight from these differing opinions What I don't want is I don't want mind pump And I don't think none of us want this to become this echo chamber Of guests that come on that sound like us all the time. Oh, it's confirmation bias.  I would never be challenged. Yeah, absolutely And you know too like it doesn't have to be uh, you know funny We bring this question up too and lane orange something recently had happened.   You got to be a bit polarizing and you know a lot of people They they want to Pin them in that position Forever and they want them to to become this person that's represents like this thing and so I've just noticed like Um, you know getting kind of swept into that mentality where you're like you have a you have an opinion about somebody going into something Every single time I've talked to them. They've changed my mind. Oh always, right? So it's like every guest. Yeah So now I'm just like well, whatever. We'll see who they really are as a person You know like that's that's where I want to get to When we do this interview. Well, and I don't think that So when the question is, you know, how do how open do both parties have to be I think mind pumps, I don't think there is a guest one that somebody could say If if they're of influence now, mind you you got to keep in mind that we have somebody who we have somebody who Literally their job is just reading these emails We get bombarded with everybody who thinks they should be a guest on mind pump, right? So once mind pump got to a certain point like now everybody anybody and everybody that's trying to start a health and fitness business And they think they have a similar message as we do is asking to be on the show So obviously not everybody comes on the show We're looking for people. They're going to add value to our audience And a lot of times it does not have to be similar views us now Of course, we like learning from these people that you know, where we're doing research or learning or reading about ourselves And it's like god, I would love to hear this expert come on and talk even deeper into this topic But we're most certainly not going to shy away from somebody who has conflict conflicting views as we do But a lot of times if it's really strongly conflicted It could just be really fucking wrong too So well, I'm most certainly not going to waste our waste anybody's time By bringing somebody on the show because they've done a good job of marketing themselves and selling themselves well on their ideologies But I know it's not backed by science and it's a bunch of bullshit And they just somebody just wants to have them come on the show because they know that Well, we may even have views and we may even have them on the show and tell them that I mean I'll tell you what the people that I can be the most honest with that I can call out Are the ones that I like and the ones that I tend to be friends with Random people not so much. So something that we like to do when we have a guest on the shows We like to spend a day with them before the day we record We that's ideal. Ideally you come hang out with us. We have dinner together Have a few drinks. We talk whatever Now we're cool.  I think the best information the best interviews and um, I you know I think we're I hope we continue to get better at doing that quick commercial break Hey, people ask us all the time how they can support mine pump. Here's what you can do You can go to www.brain.fm forward slash mine pump and get 20 off brain fm for meditation or focus You can also go to audible trial.com forward slash mine pump and get a 30 day trial plus one free audio book Lastly, you can go to get nature blend.com forward slash mine pump and you will get a discount on ben greenfield cbd product Will see poo What are your thoughts on the McGregor mayweather fight? Oh my goodness.   I'm getting I do but I'm getting a little bit sick of it They are literally is it going far bro.   Yeah, that's the thing I've only seen the first few times. They did it and they're still going with that, huh?  I thought he was great dude. I think that was no He was ahead of his time.  He was like it was too much like he let out his real feelings. You know what I'm saying?  What uh, but McGregor is just brilliant at it. Um, he weaseled his way in think about this now He how many boxers high level boxers with crazy pedigrees and crazy backgrounds of and win, you know, um Records and whatever would die would cut off their arm to get the opportunity to fight Floyd Mayweather who's arguably the best boxer ever of our time or ever How many of them would love to do that way more qualified than McGregor? Here you have an MMA guy who's not even the best like striker in MMA.  Like if you're a purist and and you just love the sport of boxing And you look at this like this is the circus Yeah, exactly You get is a circus and this is not fair because they know boxing so well that they know the top three contenders, right? Who in their mind if you're if you're a true boxing fan, isn't it cannello and and see I don't even know somebody else Yeah, I had a fight and it's like, you know the best of the best in the world. Oh, yeah No publicity. It's uh, what's this? Oh god. I'm damn it. Yeah that there's there is a epic boxing fight That's supposed to happen.  He's a 20 plus years.  Here's the thing people need to understand about about the fight sports When you're an MMA fighter and you're the best of the best in MMA You're usually not the best at one of those attributes like you're not The best boxer and then you're terrible at the ground You do sometimes get like a world champion kickboxer who fights MMA and then kind of does But usually you're just good at using them all using the cage and fighting MMA And I know this because I've trained and I'm lucky enough to have trained in kind of one of the Hubs of MMA, which is San Jose. We've got some great schools around here and I've seen some of these like top level competitors in in in MMA Go roll with a with a with a high level super high level competitive jujitsu guy and just do jujitsu And they get schooled at just jujitsu Of course, if you throw them in the cage, they kick the crap out of the jujitsu guy because they're an MMA guy I've also seen them do this with boxing and kickboxing and wrestling like you take the a great MMA guy Have them go do Greco Roman against the gold medalists. They're going to get schooled So when it comes to that, I mean Of course, McGregor's got a chance Mayweather's older his hands are you know kind of fucked up and you know But I just don't see how now you put them in the cage. McGregor's gonna be Yeah, right. That's not even close. I mean that's that's I think that's how you look at this is Either one of them in their field dominates the other one. Yeah, McGregor in an MMA cage dominates Mayweather Oh ankle pick choke them out. Yeah And in boxing it's kind of hard to like Create like a sort of a surprise punch or you know what I mean? Like it whereas there's so many variables in MMA that he could just spring where like boxing it's consistent Like you have to you have the skill or you don't right? You know, it's like it's very obvious And I think what we'll see like if if Mayweather comes if uh if McGregor comes in there and for some reason I mean because he's his only chance his only hope in this fight is in the first three to four rounds Everything he's got right you throwing the everything at him Hey makers, whatever and the only way I see this like even turning into a halfway decent fight is that's what happens McGregor comes out swinging like crazy and actually punches through his block I think I think McGregor is gonna come out and he's gonna get into his karate stance because I think he's gonna be very unorthodox or unorthodox He should which I think is smart. I think he should do that.  He's bigger than a lot bigger than Mayweather. If this goes a weird fight If this goes the distance, I'll be disappointed and to be honest with you Statistically the odds are it's gonna go the distance. I mean odds are yeah Well Mayweather hasn't knocked anybody out in years right Mayweather hasn't knocked anybody out in years If McGregor has I don't see him wanting to take a chance either. Exactly. Why would you take a chance to come in close? I'll tell you why. Okay. McGregor ride over money over your record. Well, hold on a second McGregor has Literally nothing to lose with this if he goes in and loses That's what everybody said he would happen And all he has to do then is invite Mayweather to the cage to save face and say, okay I came to your world now you come to mind Mayweather has nothing to win even if he knocks out McGregor What's what's he gonna say was supposed to he was there's nothing he has nothing to win This is pure money Mayweather's gonna win on points. It's gonna be boring.  I'm hoping for McGregor all the way Yeah, I'm gonna put money on him because if I do win I'll win some good money off of it There's always I think lightning can strike. Yeah, and I think we all agree on that for vegas reasons that you know Putting the money on McGregor just because the odds are crazy right now I just looked at it again right now and it's like are they getting worse No, it's not getting worse. It's actually went to it did go a little bit in McGregor's favor a tiny bit Because of all that Just a little bit though. I mean, it's uh, I think it was plus with the lift in his shoe Oh, maybe whether there's a little like yeah, oh, I didn't see that. I didn't see that. He's wearing like sketches. Yeah, man Yeah, exactly. Like it's like gave him like a full inch. Oh, that's hilarious Yeah, I McGregor to me is just a brilliant brilliant showman. I can't believe how he got himself fight with veiweather I have no idea. He's gonna make more money in this fight than probably his entire career. It's brilliant. I mean god bless Four years Mayweather has been fighting for ever in four years.    So here's what I try and bait them in just So here's what out. Yes 100% if I'm McGregor just bait them all day my entire goal is to make a show It's not to win.  You can get a point taken away from doing it too much We can't grab behind the neck though, right?  Yeah, I would not put it past Exactly. I would not put it past or take him down. You know, like tackle him Think about it.   I was in a fight I'm in a fight. I can't take away my tools. I'm a fighter.  Can you bet on him getting DQ'd? I would that's a great one for sure Do you throw a kick or something in Vegas?  Oh, excellent. I'll be betting some money then for sure So check this out go to youtube Subscribe to mind pump tv. We post new videos every single day. In fact, we posted our Very first instructional webinar prime pro where we actually prime pro prime pro We actually go through Prime pro and it's not an infomercial We literally go through the program and teach you some of it and it's free and it's available on youtube Our channel of course is mind pump tv Also, if you want to ask us a question that we answer on episodes like this one The place to do is on instagram our page is mind pump media We also have personal pages where we go over fitness in our own special ways Justin's page is mind pump Justin mine is mind pump sal adam is mind pump adam and dug is mind pump dug Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body Dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mind pump media dot com The rgb super bundle includes maths anabolic Maths performance and maths aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin To systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers But at a fraction of the price The rgb super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media dot com If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes And by introducing mind pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump


Can you please do so quietly here in the chamber? The final item of business today is a member's business debate on motion 1.3.739, in the name of Linda Fabiani, on 100 years of women in policing. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I would be grateful. Members who wish to speak in the debate, please, press the request to speak buttons sy'n osbol. Linda Fabiani will open the debate in seven minutes, please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer, and thank you everyone who signed this motion. I see that we have Graham Pearson, a former police officer with us this evening. I'm sure that although he's not very old, he will be familiar with the struggle that women have had to ensure parity in the police force over the years. The motion states that this year marks a century since Edith Smith was appointed as the first female officer in the UK with full powers of arrest. This milestone is being celebrated by Police Scotland and the Lanarkshire division held a successful event in East Kilbride in June to mark that occasion. It was fascinating and I was enthralled by the memorabilia on display courtesy of George Barnsley of the Lanarkshire Police Historical Society. Of course, I was fascinated by the stories behind that memorabilia. I want to thank to thoroughly modern officers, Chief Inspector Gillian Scott and Inspector Louise Skelton, who were instrumental in the success of that event. Thank you very much to both of them. The history of women policing in Scotland and, indeed, in the UK as a whole is absolutely fascinating. It was in 1883 that the Metropolitan Police employed a female visitor to visit women convicts on a licence and under police supervision. The Women's Police Service itself was founded in 1914 by Nina Boyle, who was a suffragette journalist, and Margaret Damard Dawson, who was an anti-slavery campaigner, and was staffed by volunteers. It was really interesting the way that it came about, because all of those things were controversial. Edith Smith's appointment was controversial. The Home Office advised that women could not be sworn in because they did not count as proper persons in the eyes of the law. In Grantham, however, the Chief Constable and the Watch Committee continued to give Ms Smith their full support, because they thought that her work was vital, given the very particular problems that the town faced as a result of war conditions. It was after the conclusion of war that it was felt that women could start to take more of a part in the police force. However, public opinion and the opinion of the establishment mitigated against that even at that time. There was still huge resistance despite what women had shown during World War I in having to take over many of the roles that men had previously carried out. Even then, it was stated that the duties performed by women should be restricted to those involving females and child victims or complainants. It was up to local police authorities to decide whether women were needed in that area. The Women in Scotland policing timelines are interesting. It was 1915 to 1918 that Emily Miller joined the City of Glasgow Police and Jean Thomas joined Dundee City Police. It was in 1918 that chief constables generally were asked to consider appointing women where necessary. In fact, in 1922, the chief constable of Dundee City was forced to publicly deny that he had a woman working as a constable, even though he did have one. I was fascinated by that. I do not know what they did with her. I managed to hide the fact that she was there. I could not find any further information. There is a job for our former police officer sitting over there. However, times moved on. It was in 1924 that women constables were granted the power of arrest in Scotland. Jean Malloy was promoted to detective sergeant in 1940, becoming the first woman in Scotland to gain rank. We then had a chief inspector in 1954. At the same time, we had the first uniformed sergeants. It was not until 1962 that police women who were attached to the CID were recognised as detective constables. In fact, it was only in 1968 that police women were allowed to remain in post-after marriage. My colleague Fiona McLeod has a problem with that, but that timeline brings me back to the event in East Kilbride, when Christina McKelvie and me were privileged to meet and talk with two smashing ladies, Dorothy Parker, who is still resident in UK, and Barbara McEnally, who is resident in Bishop Briggs, but who served as a sergeant in East Kilbride. I spoke to Dorothy last night just to make sure that I had the story right that she had spoken to Christina McLeod and I about that day. She told me that, in 1972, despite being in the late 60s, as I said, that police women were allowed to stay in post-after marriage, she had to ask the chief constable for permission to stay. I can see Mr Pearson's nodding of ace. He's actually older than we all thought. Dorothy recalled that women officers had different duties from the men. There was only one woman in every shift who was to deal with women and children. Even after passing the full driving course, Dorothy was only allowed to drive if a qualified male was in the car. She also told me that they weren't allowed to wear trousers, and I won't go into the stories of what she used to do when she had to chase felons down the street. On to Barbara McAnally. She was fascinating as well. She was really hitting against that glass ceiling of the time because Barbara was promoted to an East Kilbride as sergeant in the mid-1960s. Then she went to the CID in Shettleston. She had started out as a typist in the police force in Rutherglen in the 50s and then moved into the force itself.  In fact, she used to put two shillings a week in the holiday fund to pay for her holidays every year. When she moved into being a police officer, she was on £7 a week. That included a plain clothes allowance because all the women police officers' uniforms had to be made to measure because there wasn't enough of them to warrant off the peg. From that point, things really moved on. It was in 1976 that police women came to be known as Constable Sergeant, et cetera, rather than WPCW Sergeant. That created a form of equality with male colleagues. 1995, Sandra Hood became the first woman in Scotland to hold the rank of chief superintendent. 2006, Margaret Barr was appointed director of the Scottish Police College at Tally Allen. 2008, Norma Grayham became Scotland's first female chief constable at Fife. Of course, in 2012, Rose Fitzpatrick was appointed as first female deputy chief constable of Police Scotland. Now, across the UK, there are more than 40,000 female officers. Almost 40 per cent of Police Scotland recruits this year our women, which is the highest proportion ever. However, I believe that we have to look back to people like Dorothy Parker and Barbara McInally and all their contemporaries who fought against the system at the time and followed a vocation. We have to recognise the diverse policing roles that women now hold, and the positive role that women officers have played and continue to play in keeping everyone safe in their communities. Many thanks. I now turn to the open debate speeches of four minutes please, Annabelle Goldie, to be followed by Graham Pearson. I am delighted to participate in this evening's debate, marking 100 years of women in policing. I thank Linda Fabiani for bringing this debate to the chamber. Over the past 24 hours, the headlines have been dominated by the tragic death in the frontline of PC David Phillips in Liverpool. As the Prime Minister said, it serves as a stark reminder that there is no such thing as a safe day if you are a police officer. I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the men and women who put themselves in danger day in and day out to keep our communities safe, because we are truly indebted to them, and I thank them for all they do. As we celebrate 100 years of women in policing, I am struck that Edith Smith, the first-ever woman to become a police constable, was sworn in during the First World War. I also noted that she was sworn in at Grantham and Lincolnshire, a town not unfamiliar with the achievement of females and, of course, a town that was to produce Britain's first female Prime Minister. 1915 reflected dark and desperately unsafe times, and it was testament to Edith Smith's immense strength and bravery that she led the way, as a first woman, to have policing powers commensurate with those of her male counterparts. That is all the more remarkable, as women did not count, as Linda Fabiani pointed out, proper citizens in the eyes on the early 20th century. Without doubt, pioneering people like Edith Smith have helped to change the discourse surrounding women aspiring to the workplace over the past 100 years. In celebrating her achievements, we should reflect that opening a path for women in the police force was not necessarily synonymous with championing the rights of women. Personally, I am sure that she was committed to doing that, but the very nature of her specialist duties—to which I think that Linda Fabiani was obliqually referring—meant that she was often engaged in the moral regulation of her female peers, such as conducting surveillance on behalf of servicemen with doubts about spousal fidelity. Her appointment was not a feta-comple for female equality far from it, in fact, and it is worth remembering that women were not admitted to policing on the same pay terms and conditions as men until the sex discrimination and equal pay acts of the 1970s. However, it is positive to learn that today almost 40 per cent of recruits at the Scottish Police College are women, and I hope that more women will pursue policing as a career in the future. I do not think that Police Scotland should rest on its laurels because the Scottish Police Authority data shows that, in December 2014, women are underrepresented in senior posts across the single force, and that is not in any way to diminish the achievements to which Linda Fabiani referred. However, if you consider that 17 per cent are superintendents, 10 per cent are detective superintendents, 24 per cent are chief superintendents and 19 per cent are detective superintendents, we cannot feel complacent about those figures. I am not advocating that women should be promoted in anything other than merit, Deputy Presiding Officer, but I think that the figures beg some questions. At least, to some extent, women are now involved in every aspect of Scottish policing, and we must ensure that the environment encourages able female officers to stay so that they can move up the ranks. The survey last week indicated a disquieting element of officers who want to leave the force in the next three years. I think that more women recruits will go some way towards redressing the existing gender imbalance in the future, but the long-term impact will be lost if staff leave. I think that there is a huge obligation on the SPA chairman, Andrew Flanagan, and the new chief constable to be sensitive to the needs of staff and to create a working environment that ffosters long-term careers for all officers, regardless of gender. Women in the police force, as Linda Fabiani has indicated and her motion confirms, have a very distinguished record in Scotland of Service. We need to look at the situation across the board, because I think that we can do it better, and I think that we owe it to try and achieve that. I now call Graham Pearson to be followed by Alison McInnes. Thank you to Linda Fabiani for giving me the opportunity to support her in the motion this evening. I begin by acknowledging the murder of Dave Phillips in Merseyside, leaving behind two beautiful daughters, a wife, family and friends. He made the ultimate sacrifice offered by a police officer who was merely performing his duty. That death comes barely three years since, in September 2012, Fiona Bowne and Nicola Hughes, both police officers were mercilessly gunned down as they, too, performed duties on behalf of the public. For every family and their friends who have suffered personally the impact of a police officer's death and duty circumstances, the distress of this week's news will merely kick off again their own individual tragedies. In that light, it is particularly poignant that we should celebrate 100 years of women in the police service across Britain. Much has been delivered by women officers in that time, but much more as yet needs attention to ensure that policing in Scotland, as elsewhere in the UK, is capable of enabling empowering women to play their full part. In 1970, I arrived at Maitland Street Police Office in Glasgow to begin policing in the north and east end of the city. My shift comprised entirely of men, mostly veterans of the war, many of Highland extraction, all including the Fugim bill, and focus on street duties rather than on administrative duties. A few women operated in the police station as officers. A couple were attached to the CID, and occasionally I caught sight of a policewoman from headquarters where I was told that an entire policewoman's department existed, but I think that it was merely a handful of women. In that time, it was led by a formidable woman whose reputation went before her and no one tangled with her. That department dealt primarily with missing persons, sex crimes involving children, and a host of caring needs responded to by police. In 1974, women detective constables and the very unusual women's sergeants were becoming more visible in the service. At that point, I was transferred to the drug squad to be told that I would neighbour a shorthand in the service for work alongside WDC, a women detective constable. Her name was Brenda Flynn. Being a man in a male-dominated culture working on the streets, I duly felt horrified at the prospect. However, in the coming days, weeks and months, I learned that I was fortunate to have a woman as a colleague and lucky to have one as professional as Brenda. The experience proved that an early lesson to me is not the gender of a person that matters, it is the value, commitment and professionalism that provides their worth to the public. In the intervening three decades, I have met significant numbers of very impressive women operating no longer as women but now part of the mainstream as police officers. The service now relies on women to deliver. Two years ago, women represented 37 per cent of the Scottish police service. It could not operate without women in its ranks. This is a very brief debate, but I could not finish without saying that women still have much to do to maximise the benefits that women bring, and men in the service have much to do to enable that to occur. At promoted ranks, as has previously been said, women fall dramatically in terms of representation from 20 per cent down to 9 per cent as they move up through the ranks. As with the armed service, the police have a chequered history in managing the issues that arise from men and women working together in what had previously been seen as a man's world. Fiona Bowne and Nicola Hughes, along with others, should put an end to the notion of a man's world. Policing is complex and a challenging environment. It needs all the skills that men and women bring to it. I commend Linda Fabiani for raising the issue and hope that women around the country will take a pride in those who represent them in the police service. Many thanks. I now call Alison McInnes to be followed by David Torrance. Thanks very much, and I too would like to thank Linda Fabiani for securing this debate, marking 100 years of women in policing. At the time when the first female officer with full arrest powers was appointed in England, across the UK around 4,000 women were already taking on policing functions as voluntary patrols. However, the appointment of Edith Smith started a new chapter at a time when a lot of opportunities were opening up to women due to the human cost of the First World War. I am pleased to note that one of the first women officers in Scotland, Jean Thomas, was from my region and joined Dundee City Police shortly after Edith Smith was appointed. I am less pleased to note that years later, as Linda Fabiani pointed out, the chief constable of Dundee was forced to publicly deny that he had a woman working as a constable, so times have certainly changed. As we know, at the very beginning, women officers were paid less, were required to leave the force after they had married and had separate service titles to men, but they were there and they were beginning to make a difference. Many things have changed in a relatively short period of time since then. Today in Scotland, we have a female deputy chief constable, Rose Fitzpatrick. As others have said, this year's intake at the Scottish Police College in Tullialan had nearly 40 per cent of women. Just last month in September, Laura Collins was named special constable of the year after putting in a phenomenal 1,200 hours of volunteering. Women are now able to do any job within the police service and are seen as equals to their male counterparts concerning their terms and conditions of employment. Yet, of course, challenges remain. In figures published by the SPA in 2014, only 31 per cent of recruits were women. In a Scottish Police staff survey, which was published just last week, 63 per cent of female respondents said that they felt that they were being treated fairly at work. Of course, that means that over a third of women who responded do not feel that they are being treated fairly at work. That is something that we should be concerned about. Although I recognise that women hold such diverse roles as firearms officers, counter-terrorism officers and investigators, there is still a way to go. The Scottish Women's Development Forum, an organisation that aims to tackle the gender gap within Police Scotland ranks, estimated that in 2014 only 29 per cent of all police officers were women. Only 20 per cent of promoted posts were taken up and only 36 per cent of special constables were women. Those numbers clearly show that we need to do much more to encourage and foster women to firstly take up posts within the police and secondly to help them to rise through the ranks. That means tackling the biases currently in the system. Workplace policies and practices need to be reviewed to ensure that the police service is a fair place to work for everyone. As in other sectors, the need for flexible working is particularly important for women officers with caring responsibilities. It is worth also recognising the importance of civilian staff and, according to SWDF, 62 per cent of this employee group in 2014 were women. The civilian staff brings specialist expertise to allow officers to spend more time engaging with their communities and they provide an important part of the service and have a crucial function in the operation of our police service. It is therefore shocking that, according to figures published by the SPA in 2013, a staggering 87 per cent of police service staff who receive salaries that are less than 15,000 per annum are women. In the meantime, between 60 and 70 per cent of staff members receiving over 65,000 are men. The terms of employment may be equal but the reality is not yet so. It is so important that we make the necessary changes so that women feel they are safe. We need our police force to be reflective of the society that they work to protect and we need to make sure that we have women police officers who can inspire young girls to want to be involved so that we not only have a rich history but also a vibrant future for women in our police force. Many thanks. I now call David Torrance to be followed by Eileen Murray. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Linda Fabiani for securing this debate in Parliament today in this memorable issue. Every day our police force in Scotland does a remarkable job in protecting communities. It only covers an area of 30,000 square miles but it also successfully managed to commonwealth games in the Ryder Cup last year. On order to do so, it is of great importance that the police force reflects Scotland's diverse society. Looking back in the past, this has not always been the case. Traditionally, police force was a male-dominated institution. Today I want to recount some of the historic developments that have led to greater inclusion of women. I would also like to talk about how far police force has come in endorsing as well as incorporating equality and diversity. As we celebrate 100 years of women in policing, I believe that it is crucial to remember that brave women have set important milestones for future generations. After Ada Smith became the first female officer in the UK, the first two Scottish officers, Emily Miller and Jean Thomason, were appointed by City of Glasgow and Dindey City Police between 1915 and 1918. That certainly marked a remarkable turning point for women. However, segregation was very common within the police force in terms of distinct tasks, rank structure and even separate offices. Nevertheless, from the late 1960s onwards, several important changes have been taking place. Since 1968, police women were granted to remain in their posts after marriage, and since the 1980s, women were allowed to wear trousers as part of their uniform. The Equal Pay Act in 1970 established the principle of equal pay for women. Most notably in 1976, women police ceased to exist as a separate body and went to get it into a general police system. In recent years, an increased number of women have assumed leviacer positions within the police force. Norma Graham was appointed as Scotland's first female chief constable at Fife Constable in 2008. Since 2012, Roseford Patrick has served as the deputy chief constable of Police Scotland. In fact, today I am delighted to say that Police Scotland is fully committed to the principles of equality and diversity. With the formal establishment of Police Scotland in 2013, values of integrity, fairness and respect have assumed a key role in delivering its services. Services that aspire to reach high-quality consistency and accessibility in order to promote justice for all. To monitor how well Police Scotland integrates afford-mentioned values and principles into everyday work of organisation, a high-level action plan in 2013, Equality and Diversity in Police Scotland Port, was created. While allowing Police Scotland to look forward, it enshrines in what way equality and diversity will influence its services. Additionally, a working group of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, the Scottish Women's Development Forum, was formed. One of its main remits has been to advise Police Scotland, the Scottish Police Authority and the Scottish Government on issues of gender equality within the police service. Its membership is open to everyone. We seek to improve the working environment within the police force to enable all staff members to reach their full potential. Each year's Scottish Women's Development Forum pays tribute to the input, efforts and achievements of its women's officers and staff members. The war ceremony aims to highlight both the diversity of excellent initiatives, as well as the breadth of roles undertaken by women in the police force. In celebrating the 100th anniversary of women in policing, we can proudly look at the recent statistics. In 2014, 29 per cent of police officers were women. An increase of 11 per cent since 2003. Its number is predicted to rise in the future, as nearly 40 per cent of all new recruits are women. In terms of promotion, 20 per cent of promoted posts were given to women. It shows that there is still room for improvement. However, I also believe that the statistics indicate that no rank is now unattainable for women in the police force. I am confident to say that its developments clearly show how far the police force has come, which is transforming organisations towards achieving greater equality. It is an honour to speak about our police force and especially about women in policing today. I would like to conclude by wishing all members of Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority the best of luck in the future endeavours. Our last open debate is Elaine Murray. I, too, start by congratulating Linda Fabiani on securing the debate today. It is notable that the first female officers were appointed during World War 1. How often is it the case that women get opportunities during times of war when men are away, when they would not have been offered to them? At that time, women did not have the vote. We did not even have female suffrage at the time when the first women police officers were appointed. Alison McInnes said that there had already been voluntary police officers. There had been women's police volunteers and the voluntary women's patrols in England at the beginning of the war. Interestingly, they were often headed up by suffragettes. They were part of the demonstration of women's ability to do the same jobs as men, and they are worthiness of being given the suffrage as well. Others have mentioned that Emily Miller joined Glasgow City Police in September 1914 and Jean Thomas, the second woman, joined the City of Dundee Police in 1918. However, there had already previously been a court sister in Aberdeen in 1914. A lot less is known about that lady, but she had many of the same responsibilities as a police officer. She was, by accounts, a very formidable lady. She weighed apparently something like 18 stone and was quite capable of picking up recalcitrant male offenders and throwing them into the dock if that was necessary. There was, as Llyrde Fabio Annie said, considerable public resistance to the idea of female officers. In addition to the chief constable Dundee saying that denying that he had a female officer, the town clerk of Stirling said around that time, something along the lines of, we have no need of them and we do not want them. People did not want to have women officers out there. However, things are much better on 100 years on and on 100 years of women policing was celebrated in June. They comprise around a third of the force. In Dumfries and Galloway, there were two events to celebrate this centenary, one in Port Rody in Strunrar and the other in Cornwall Mount in Dumfries. As it happened on 26 June, I had a meeting arranged with re-divisional commander Mike Leslie. When I arrived at Cornwall Mount, Mike said to me, he would be interested in this exhibition that we have on. He asked Sergeant Nicola Robinson who had organised the exhibitions to show me around the exhibition. It was absolutely fascinating and particularly fascinating to be shown around by serving police officer and to speak to other police officers. There was a lot of memorabilia from the legacy Dumfries and Galloway Constabulary Museum with photographs showing women police officers in knee-length skirts. When I observed them, I thought how difficult it must be to undertake some of the duties of a police officer while wearing a knee-length skirt. There were all sorts of pieces of equipment as well. There is also a photograph purporting to be of the court's sister in Aberdeen, the one who used to hurl people into the dock. She was sitting down in a long dress smoking a clay pipe. I certainly would not have crossed her had I met her anywhere near a court. There was also an array of different pieces of equipment. Some of them, when you pick them up, are pretty heavy. You have to be pretty fit. You no longer have to be tall. You could probably be a police officer and be my height nowadays, but you have to be fit, as well as being, of course, very courageous. The exhibition was well attended. One of the intentions was that former female police officers would be able to come back and meet their colleagues and have a chat about their time in the force. As others have said, we must not forget that women are underrepresented, particularly at senior levels. I think that it is important that role models of women police officers, particularly senior women police officers, are promoted. I know that, of course, there is a chief constable of Police Scotland's post up for a filling. I just suggest to ACC Kate Thompson that she should put her hat in the ring. Kate comes from Dumfries and Galloway and she did not say that she would not. I am hopeful that she is going to apply for that particular job. We do want to see more girls. I do wonder still how many little girls early stages in life say that they would like to be a police officer. Obviously, later on people are, but I would like to see that sort of gender equality said that young girls, just as much as young boys, might aspire to be a police officer. Many thanks. Can I now invite Annabelle Ewing to respond to the debate? Minister, seven minutes social police. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would like to start by paying tribute to all our police officers who provide such a sterling service to each and every one of us in our communities day in and day out. In that regard, I too, on behalf of all colleagues, would wish to offer sincere condolences to the family and friends and colleagues of PC David Phillips. I thank Linda Fabiani on securing this debate this evening on this very important milestone of 100 years of women in policing, and I do thank all members for their very interesting contributions. I, in fact, had the privilege of speaking at a passing out parade at Tally Allen at the Scottish Police College in June, where we did celebrate 100 years of women in policing, and I also am aware that each of the 14 divisions in Police Scotland have also held their own local events to celebrate this landmark year. We have heard of the events, for example, in Linda Fabiani's constituency in East Kilbride, where they held a very successful event in June of this year. The history of policing shows that the integration of women into all aspects of the profession has indeed taken many years, as many members have highlighted. While new recruits to Police Scotland enter a completely different service to their volunteer counterparts 100 years ago, we have heard that it is not that long ago that female officers were still being restricted to wearing skirts and carrying handbags. That was dating back to the 1980s, so progress has indeed been slow and not without obstacles. One of the interesting statistics that I do not think had been mentioned by members tonight was that female officers, police officers, were barred from taking fingerprints until 1937. That was another thing that caught me as being very odd. Of course, we had the curious case, which I think we really need answers to, as to why the chief constable of Dundee in 1922 denied the very existence of his female constable. Why was that? We need more information about that. We heard from Elaine Murray that the disturbing fact that it was not just Dundee, Sterling was at it as well. I do not know what was going on there, but, hopefully, by the time that Graeme Pearson started his service in 1970, in Glasgow, I believe, we had moved on some 48 years, so at least we were recognising the role of women police officers at that stage, albeit that there were still quite a number of significant restrictions as to what they could actually do. I know that Police Scotland fully supports diversity in its workforce and aims to embed equality and diversity into every aspect of the service, allowing all female officers to have the same opportunity to develop and progress in the service. As a result, we do thankfully now see women playing a pivotal role in all aspects of policing, albeit that I accept that more requires to be done. That progress has been largely due to women themselves challenging the status quo, and we should pay tribute to those female officers who have taken personal and professional risks to stand up for their rights and the rights of other women, at point referenced by Annabelle Goldie and, indeed, by David Torrance. Over the past century, women have increasingly taken on the range of responsibilities and demands of policing and have sought greater access to specialist roles and the freedom to seek promotion to the highest ranks. Whether through sheer determination and persistence or through court challenges, we should recognise that the freedoms that female officers enjoy today have indeed been hard-won. Police Scotland recognises that to gain the full potential from new recruits and to deliver a service that truly reflects the diverse communities that it serves, it must have accessible recruitment options and working practices, which, indeed, as Alison McInnes highlighted, allow flexible working and access to all aspects of its work. There are now in that regard three women in the Police Scotland executive team, and women have the opportunity to join any of the specialist units in enhancing opportunities for growth, development and promotion in the service. At the praise that I attended in June, 37 per cent of the new recruits that day were female, and there are currently around 5,150 female officers in Police Scotland, which makes up at this point approximately 29 per cent of serving officers. Police Scotland also recognises the challenges that it faces within our communities, but its commitment to mainstreaming equality matches the Scottish Government's commitment to work within our powers to help women to fulfil their potential in the labour market. In the last year, we have seen female employment in general reach record levels in Scotland and female employment here is now, I believe, the second highest in the European Union, but, of course, we are not complacent. We know that there is much work to be done to tackle occupational segregation in the workplace and, indeed, the continuing pay gap, and we are committed to tackling inequality in all its shapes and forms in Scotland. Indeed, harnessing the potential of everyone in society makes us not just stronger but also a much more successful society. We will, as a Government, continue to take action to ensure that more women are able to make informed choices about careers and to pursue those careers successfully throughout their working lives. In conclusion, I would just like to recognise, in particular, the efforts of Ms Fabiani's constituents, or at least one of them, the current constituent Dorothy Park and Barbara McInally. Indeed, the stories that they were able to tell of their time in the force and the actions that they had to take to ensure that their progression in the force was something that happened as opposed to something that did not happen, albeit that their existence was not being denied, at least by their senior officers. They still had to take much action to make their way in the force. I commend them for the service that they both provided to our communities. I would like to recognise the enormous contribution that women have made in policing over the past 100 years. I thank again Linda Fabiani for ensuring that this milestone has been duly recognised by the chamber. I have absolutely no doubt that, as we go forward, women will continue to make a very powerful contribution to Scotland's policing in the years ahead. We will see many more women progressing to the very top where they should be, in my opinion, as Minister for Women's Employment, among other things. We see them where they should be at the top of Police Scotland. I am sure and confident that we will see that happen in the years ahead. Many thanks, minister. That concludes Linda Fabiani's debate on 100 years of women in policing. I now close this meeting of Parliament.