As-salamu alaikum and welcome. Thank you for joining us today on this program on Franchising Basics. I'd like to thank the U.S. Department of Commerce Sabit Program, the International Franchise Association, USAID Pakistan, and the State Department's Office of International Programs for putting this event together. We have for you a guide, which is called the Franchising Guide, and it is available both in English and in Urdu, and is available for download on a website, www.trade.gov, forward slash sabit. I highly encourage you to download this for more information about what we're going to speak in today. I'd like to also invite you to apply to the June 2015 Sabit Franchising Training Program in New York City, which will include additional franchise training and the opportunity to attend the International Franchise Expo. I highly encourage you to apply for that program, and also to share this link with friends and others, and this video recording will be available for download at the same event link following today's program. I'm joined today by two colleagues, and we're going to introduce the concept of franchising, which has been very, very successful for us in our careers, and we hope will be helpful for you as well. We also encourage you to ask questions both online, and after each presentation, there will be a chance to ask questions live as well. So let's get right into the program. My name is Aziz Hashim, and I'm the Managing Partner of NRD Capital. I was actually born in Pakistan in Karachi, and my family immigrated to the U.S. when I was a very young child. Through that immigration, I was able to get into the franchising business, and it's been very successful for me, and I'm very excited today about sharing some of those thoughts with you. First a little bit about the International Franchise Association. The IFA was founded in 1960, and is the world's oldest and largest organization representing franchising worldwide. The mission of the IFA is to protect, enhance, and promote franchising. IFA members include franchise companies in over 300 different business sectors, and individual franchises as well as suppliers that provide products and services to our industry. Next slide, please. So a little bit about NRD Capital Partners. Next slide, please. So we have investments in three countries, in the USA, in Canada, and also in the continent of Africa, and I'll tell you a little bit about what we do in each one of those. Next slide, please. In the US, our primary holdings is Popeyes, which is a fried chicken purveyor and is one of the largest fried chicken Q&A quick service restaurant franchises in the world. Next slide, please. In Canada, we have Pet Value, which is a retail pet supplies operation. Next slide, please. And in Africa, we have two investments, one in a company called Chicken Stop, which is a flame-grilled chicken concept. Next slide, please. And Zippy Chips, which is a portable kiosk-based chips and snacks out of business that we have in Johannesburg, South Africa. Next one, please. Let's talk a little bit about what franchising is. Franchising is a business strategy or a method of distributing products and services, where the franchisor lends their trademark or name and their business systems to a franchisee who pays a fee and then ongoing royalties for the right to do business under the franchisor's name and system. In other words, the franchisor owns the intellectual property and the franchisee licenses that intellectual property in exchange for a fee. Next slide, please. And what's so good about franchising? Franchising is very, very useful because it is a way to go into business for yourself but not by yourself. And in franchising, we have two or three different aspects that we're going to cover today. One is how it impacts economies, what are the advantages and disadvantages of franchising, and how to pick a franchise. Next slide, please. So franchising is already in Pakistan, and you may be familiar with some of the brands that are there. For example, KFC, Hilton, Domino's, McDonald's, there are lots of franchises that already exist in Pakistan and other Middle Eastern countries as well as Asia and all over the world. However, people don't always understand that those franchises are owned by individuals. Sometimes it's misunderstood that perhaps those are corporate restaurants, which some of them may be, but by and large there are a lot of franchisees, which is what this seminar is about, is how you can participate in this business. Next slide, please. So there are some of the companies that have more than 20% of their units in international franchising. So as you can see, all the major brands in franchising have a very large international presence. Next slide, please. So when we talk about franchise and economic development, franchising is very unique in that it is adaptable and has success in virtually every culture on earth. Due to its scalability, franchising has a unique ability to develop quickly and help economies because it's able to provide jobs and also encourages a middle class. Also franchising has large direct benefits such as establishing supply chains and also creating foreign reserve. Next slide, please. When we talk about franchising, it's important to know that it's one of the main strengths is that it establishes and enforces standards. And it also achieves cost savings because of economies of scale. Franchising transfers best practices to new economies. Also local economies capitalize from the strengths of the franchisor and the franchisee because the business model is fueled by the franchisee's investment and local know-how. And this is very important. People ask all the time, why do companies franchise in international settings? That is because while they have the intellectual property, the local know-how, the real estate, the employment situation, the local laws are best understood by the local people and that's why franchising works so well in international settings. Next slide, please. So when we talk about franchising, it is a way of creating a lower risk entrepreneurial opportunity. Given my example, for example, when I started in franchising it was in the restaurant business and I didn't know much about restaurant businesses. So it would have been very risky for me to start my own restaurant and hope for success. Instead I chose to franchise with a known established brand and I knew that my risk would be much lower because that brand had a reputation in the marketplace and the name was well known to the consumers. And this helps with expansion as well. So when we talk about franchising, it is a shared sense of business between the franchisor and the franchisee and the impact of the icons, the trademarks and the trade dress are among the best known signals in the last 50 years. For example, who doesn't know what McDonald's is today or Pizza Hut or Domino's Pizza? This is as a result of franchising's proliferation internationally. Next slide, please. So franchising can also be applied to the social sector and this is one of the more exciting developments in franchising recently. For example, we had in just a few weeks ago a presentation at the IFA by someone who had created a franchising for delivering fresh water in Africa. And so this was a franchise model using all the principles of consistency, quality, branding, but not for profit. So there are more applications of franchising beyond just for profit. It's also possible to do franchising on a social basis. Next slide, please. So when we talk about franchising and it spans more than 300 industries and sometimes people are not aware and the easy ones to guess are restaurants and hotels. But for example, in the US and around the world, franchising can be seen in business services, in children's services, in automotive services, cosmetics, education, laundry, printing, hair and beauty, all different kinds of industries. And this is very important because it is possible to find a franchise in a business sector which is most applicable and most passionate for the franchisee. Next slide, please. So what are the advantages to franchising? So as I mentioned before, it is a way to be in business for yourself but not by yourself, and in many cases, no previous experience is required. Because the franchise or the company that owns the intellectual property provides training and then ongoing support. And this is very important, especially in developing countries where training and education is sometimes limited, a franchise work can come in and show you how to do business, how to create the supply chains, how to train employees, how to pick real estate, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a really good educational system as well as a business system. It allows one to affiliate with the brand name. So for example, as I mentioned, names like McDonald's, KFC and Pizza Hut, et cetera, those are world-class international names. And to be a franchisee of one of those brands is very, very useful and it's very, very important to get maximum success out of your business. So becoming a part of a proven system is the main issue in franchising. Also, there's ongoing training and support. So once the franchise is open, afterwards there's a relationship between the franchisee and the franchisee. And part of that relationship means ongoing training, support, access to products, equipment, and also new developments in the industry. So it is a long-term relationship. It is not a singular relationship where you open the store and then afterwards you're on your own. There is a continuing relationship between the franchisee and the franchisee, which is very helpful. Next slide, please. But just like anything else in life, there are also disadvantages to franchising and it's important to understand both the advantages and the disadvantages. For example, when you choose to be a franchisee, you're not completely independent. There may be restrictions on the goods and services you sell and the method of operation. So for example, if I have a Popeyes franchise, it does not allow me to create my own menu items or to decide what I want to sell and what I don't want to sell. I have to abide by the criteria of the franchisor, the products the franchisor wants me to sell, etc. So there is a little bit of lack of independence and one has to be okay with that. Because otherwise it's not a good relationship. There are continuing royalties and advertising fees. So we are licensing that name and for that we have to pay a fee for the duration of the franchise. So it's not a matter of just getting the store open. For the length of the franchise agreement, you have to pay those fees. If a franchisee doesn't perform well, the franchisor may elect to terminate that franchisee. So it's important to understand that there are rules to abide by and not abiding by those rules have consequences because it can damage the name. You can imagine that if there are a number of franchises of a particular chain in Pakistan and some operators are not operating well, it will damage the reputation of the other operators as well. And the franchisor would not like to see that reputational damage and so they would take action. So those are some of the things that one has to be aware of when signs up for a franchise. It is a relationship between the franchisor and the franchisee. You are not completely independent. Next slide please. So how do you know which franchise or whether to go into franchising at all? And why should one take the time? When you enter into this type of a relationship, it's very important to understand it's a long term relationship and it could be quite a substantial investment. Therefore, it behooves one to take a hard look at why you would want to do it. And what are your personal interests? For example, what is it about a particular brand that you like? And being that there are so many different choices, there is this a very wide selection of franchises available. And so one should ask a very deep question as to where your interest really lies. For example, if you have an interest in automotive repair or cars, then there are franchises in that area. If you have an interest in food, then there are many franchises in that area. It's important to match a franchise business with one's personal interests because it makes for an easier relationship on the long haul. This is quite a big commitment and so you want to choose very, very well. And so to ask yourself the questions about which strengths and weaknesses you have and what might be useful for you to do is very, very important. And what you're passionate about because most franchise agreements are at least five or ten or sometimes even 20 years long. And you don't want to enter into that relationship unless you're really happy with the type of business that you're going to do. Next slide please. So is franchising for you? And we have a colleague here today that is going to speak to some of the legal aspects of franchising. And I would say that it's very important to understand the log documents that are going to be presented. So if you want to be sure that you're making the right decision, make sure that you evaluate the documents and to evaluate the people that you're going to do business with. And that the franchisor has the resources to support you after you have opened. So I see an online question which asks, which sectors tend to require the lowest investment? So there are two or three different types of franchising. There's what we call the bricks and mortar franchising, which requires the establishment of a physical plant. It could be a restaurant or a hotel. Those are of course the most cost extensive types of franchising because you have to build infrastructure. And then there are service related franchises. For example, there are some franchises which are home service based, like maid service and cleaning services, which don't require a physical plant. Those would be much lower to get into. So there are amongst those 300 business sectors a very wide range. To put it in US terms, I have seen franchises which cost as little as 50,000 US dollars to get into. And there are franchises here like a hotel, which may cost many millions of dollars to get into. So there are a wide range of options. And once you have a budget, it's very easy to narrow down, because that information is available as to which ones can meet your budget. Next slide please. So how do you evaluate a franchise? First, you have to conduct some research and compare the competition. Which brands are the most successful in your area or what does the area demand? You have to evaluate the strength of the franchise or. And in an international context, this is very important. For example, is the franchisor large enough to support you? It's not easy for a US based franchisor to send support staff to whichever country. So from the US to Pakistan to support a franchisee there, it's gonna cost money. So the franchisor has to have the resources. Many franchisors are eager to take on international franchising, but they don't always have the resources to support their international franchisees. So for me, that would be the number one question to ask. Having a good lawyer and accountant who specialize in franchising is very, very important. Franchising law is different from other types of business law. And if you don't have a franchise attorney, it is very difficult for you to evaluate the type of deal that you're getting. And again, my colleague will talk more about that in a few minutes. There are disclosure documents that you have to sign before you enter into any agreement, and it's very important to read those documents and to understand what they say. Next slide, please. So again, when you're selecting a franchise and it's an investment like any other type of business. And you would take a look at demand, you would take a look at competition. You would take a look at your ability to operate the business. And the name recognition of that brand, training and support services, the experience of the franchise or particularly in international settings, and what the growth plans look like. These are all the basic questions that need to be asked. And in the guide that I alluded to earlier and on the IFA website, there are lots more resources on how to select a franchise. But it requires homework. You have to do a sufficient amount of homework before you make a financial investment. Next slide, please. So what do franchisors look at in a candidate for franchisee? First thing they will look at is exactly what I just said. Have they done their homework? Do they understand the concept? Do they understand what it means to be a franchisee of that concept? Do they have enough financial means to execute on the franchise agreement? Is there a passion there? Is there an eagerness to be trained and to be taught? Because you have to follow the systems, as I mentioned. And people who are not interested in following a system don't make very good franchisees. So the franchisor will ask a lot of questions about your ability to follow the system as it has been presented. Is there a success of history interacting with people? Any kind of business, it's a people business. You have employees, you have customers, and here you have a relationship with your franchisor. And it's best that people who are interested in the people side of the business participate in franchising. Because if you're not able to relate well to employees and to customers, then it makes it very difficult for you to be successful in any kind of business, and particularly a franchise business. And is there a motivation and a desire to achieve success? Franchising is not a get rich quick scheme. There are no get rich quick schemes. Everything requires a lot of hard work. But as I mentioned, in my opinion, that it's a lower risk to get into a franchise business than an independent business. Next slide, please. So what should be some questions that you would ask a potential franchisor? Some of the things that you would ask are whether or not there is a personal liability and obligation to face. Where is the franchise located? Where are they headquartered and what are their plans for the future? What type of trademark protections does the franchise have in the country? Will I be able to renew my franchise agreement? As I mentioned earlier, franchise agreements do have terms. They are not unlimited. So at the end of the term, you must be sure that there is a possibility of having an extension. Otherwise, at the end of the term, the relationship terminates and the business is lost. Will there be able to terminate my franchise agreement and under what conditions? So that's the other side. What if you're not happy? Is it possible to get out? How much would you lose if you get out? What are your continuing obligations? And again, my colleague will cover some of those points, but it's very important to ask the questions. You know, in any business, exit strategy is very, very important. One should never make an investment unless one has a view to exit and has a clear understanding of what that exit entails. Not only monetarily, but in continuing obligations and responsibilities. Next slide, please. Other questions to ask is, will the franchisor negotiate the franchise agreement? Will the franchise agreement be transferable? So 10 years or 20 years is a very long time. If during that time period, one has a necessity to sell, are you allowed to sell it and to whom and under what conditions? Where will the products come from? Some franchisors require that all the product be purchased from them. Others do not require that. That's important to know. Can I be a passive owner? There are some franchisors which will allow an investor type franchisee, which may have other business interests or may have another job and does this as a side investment. Other franchisors strictly prohibit that. They require the franchisee to be actively involved in the business on a day to day basis. It's important to find out what the franchisor has in mind. And what are all the fees that I must pay? There are a lot of costs involved here, and it's very important to understand not only the initial fees, but the ongoing fees. Next slide, please. What are the keys to franchise success? Well, first of all, you have to make sure that you're well capitalized. It's very, very important to understand capitalization. And a lot of businesses go under because they are not well capitalized. Number two is not to forget your family and friends and not to create a situation where the business is all consuming. And so that you completely, totally are immersed in it and are able to lose all sense of your other responsibilities in life. That's not the idea about business. Following the system I talked about and recruiting and treating employees with respect, this is very, very important. The employees in a business are the front line. And in a franchise, you have a double responsibility because the franchise or will have certain customer service requirements. They will want the employees of the franchise to behave in a certain way. And they will be required to be trained in a certain way. And sometimes in international context, that's not the way business is done. And so you have to understand that if you're going to get into a franchise system, the franchise or will have something to say about what type of employees are hired, how they are trained and how they behave with the customer. You have to be okay with that. Great customer service goes without saying any business to survive needs great customer service. You have to stay involved with the community. A franchise is best when the owner is engaged with the local community around it. And how to stay in touch with your franchise or and other franchisees. One of the benefits of franchising is the network. It's the ongoing support from the franchise or but also ongoing support from other fellow franchisees where you exchange best practices. A lot of the success I've had is because of my interaction with other franchisees and you're gonna meet one again today. Another gentleman from Pakistan who is also going to present. And people like him where we meet and we talked and we exchange ideas. And that's how we learn. And that kind of interaction, that kind of networking is unique to franchisees because we all have a common bond. That is, we are all franchisees of the same system. And that's a really, really good part about franchising. Next slide please. So what are next steps? So there are a couple of things. One is to go to www.franchise.org. And I think it may not be on the slide correctly, the G may be missing. But it's franchise.org, which is the IFA's website. There you will find an immense amount of information about franchising and lots of resources. Also, as I had mentioned earlier, there is a franchise expo that will be held in New York. And that is a wonderful way to see hundreds and hundreds of franchisees who will present and have exhibit boots. And you will get an idea as to what's available in the marketplace and get a really good sense of the variety in franchising. And I encourage you, as I said earlier, to try to come to that program to apply. Some people will be selected to come to that program as well. But even if you're not, you should come on your own and participate in that program. It's a very fun event in New York. Next slide please. So that's the end of my formal presentation. And I would like to ask anyone if they have any questions at this time that I can answer for them. I have a question. You're presenting the opportunities to invest in US and take a franchise back to Pakistan as well? Correct. Correct. So the question was that is there opportunities to invest in the US also to invest in Pakistan as well? So the primary objective of this webinar is about franchising in Pakistan. So that is selecting a brand that might be useful and then bringing it to Pakistan for expansion there. But certainly there are investment opportunities in the US also. And that's always an option for you. Any other questions? Is there any franchise list on your website? There is. In fact, the ifa on franchise.org, there are over 1300 members. So the total universe of franchising, and it's a moving number because new franchises are created every year, is almost 3,000 or more than 3,000. About half of those are members of the ifa. So you can access at least half of those right from franchise.org. And then if you come to that event in New York, several hundred are on exhibit there. So that's another option for you. My question is that we know typically most of the franchises and the franchisers are giving more in, as you also mentioned in your presentation to do with food, retail outlets, etc. But basically I'm interested to know and learn about any possibilities in healthcare. Because when I actually go around and see there are not too many providers coming out with healthcare at different levels. There might be few that might be doing in home healthcare that I've come across. Can you shed some light on that? And is there any possibility? Because I think that is one of the, within the service sectors, I think after education one of the strongest growing sectors in Pakistan, I would say is healthcare. No, I totally agree with you. It's an issue all over the world. Healthcare is an inevitable situation with longevity, people living longer, and the health needs increasing tremendously in the developing countries and also in the developed countries. So I would say that certain trends that I see here is that the home healthcare, as you mentioned for seniors, is definitely on the rise. But there's also this concept of what we call dock in the box, which are small medical centers where you can get quick emergency services. They don't do surgeries there, etc. But if you have a quick need for a medical person, you can go to one of those types of centers. So that's popping up as well. Also assisted living, and I'm sure that these are things that will also pop up in Pakistan as well. The need for seniors to be taken care of as population increases. And sometimes parents are not being able to be looked after by their children the way that they would need to be. So that's another rising sector. And then there's specialty care as well that is for particular afflictions. So home care, but with a specialty for Alzheimer's, for example. Specialty for cancer, where you need a special type of medical personnel to look over that person, rather than just general help to take people here and there. And then the last thing I would mention is this sort of this category, which is being a little bit spearheaded by Uber. You've heard of the Uber car service. But there's a whole category of services where it's just to help elderly people who don't necessarily have a medical affliction. But they need assistance of some kind, could be just driving here and there, picking up supplies, etc. So there's a whole range of medical type of situations coming up. And I think you're right to identify that as probably one of the growing areas for Pakistan too. I have one question. Yeah. I just wanted to understand what is the criteria for applying an IFA membership? So an IFA membership, if you go to the franchise.org website, you will see an application process there. You can apply as a franchisor, but I'm assuming that you would be applying as an individual. As a potential franchisee. Is that right? I am a consulting company for franchising in Pakistan. We have Franko in our head office in Chicago. Perfect, so then you would fall under the supplier member. And we have several hundred supplier members. So I'd encourage you to go on to the franchise.org and apply there. It's a pretty simple straightforward process. And if you have any troubles there, contact us through franchise.org or through this program and we'll be happy to help you out. All right. All right, so with that, I will hand it over to our next presenter, Mr. Philip Seidman. Thank you, Aziz. My name is Philip Seidman. Can you give me the first slide? I'm the General Counsel of the International Franchise Association. Our law firm, DLA Piper, is one of the largest law firms in the world with offices in almost 40 countries. I've spent my professional life specializing in franchising, especially international franchising. Next slide, please. The nature of the presentation is going to be about franchising, as speaking to you as prospective franchisees. However, before we leave this point, I would like to say that one of the most interesting aspects of my practice has been helping companies in other countries as franchisors. I'd like to see Pakistan develop an indigenous native franchise or industry, as well as a franchisee industry. So I hope that some questions will come on that subject as well. I will welcome your questions throughout the presentation. And for those of you who are coming to the International Franchise Exposition in June in New York, I look forward to seeing you there. I sit between two heroes of the Pakistan-American franchise community. So it falls to me to deal with the pure basics of franchising. Would you turn to the next slide, please? If I have a product or service that I want to sell, and I'd like to sell it to Aziz, and to as many Aziz as I can find to sell to, at a price which will give me the maximum profit on my investment, in most of the history of the world, there have been two ways I could do that. I could turn to Aslam, and I could hire him as my employee. And I would tell him what uniform to wear, what time to go to work in the morning, what time to leave, when to take a vacation, what price to sell it. I'd build the facility, and he would work there. It's very controlled. I control everything that happens in that business. But it's also very slow to expand, because until he sells the first product, and I get the first profit out of it, I can't begin to think about unit number two, not to speak of 200 or 2,000. So the second way I could have done it was to turn to Aslam, who is already in business, as a dealer or distributor, in the type of products or services I'm selling, and ask him to take on my product or service as an additional line. That way, it's far more effective economically, because he's built the building, or he's rented the building, he's paying the utilities, he's actually paying me for the product before he even sells it. But the converse is, it's also much less controllable. He wants to play golf on Wednesdays. He wants to take a vacation. He's doing a poor job. It's not so easy for me to terminate that relationship and find somebody immediately to step in. And if I don't, then my product or service is not being sold in the community where he was. So what franchising is, despite all the fancy words we use about it, what franchising is, is simply a way to split the difference between those two, to try to get the benefits of both of those two systems without the disadvantages of either. And that's essentially what franchising is based on. So that in the normal franchise situation, I will franchise to Oslo. I will give him the rights to operate in a particular territory. I will get an initial fee from him for the right to do that. He will pay me royalties based upon the retail sales. And because there are other aspects of this, including training and marketing and research and development, and advertising, there may be other fees as well. But either way, however I do this, I'm the franchisor, he's the franchisee. So to get our terms on the same, and evil terrains that we're all using the same terminology, that's a basic franchise or franchisee relationship. But Oslo may be the kind of person who is able to take on more than one franchise, more than one location. So I may sell him a second or a third one. Indeed, if at the outset, he has the capability of taking on an entire territory, I will give him what we might call an area development agreement, in which he has the right and the obligation to develop a certain number of units in a certain period of time for a certain amount of money in an area. Indeed, if it goes further than that, and I want to be, to expand more rapidly, I may turn to Oslo and make him a quote, master franchisee or sub-franchisor, in which his responsibility is to go out and find the ultimate sub-franchisese. He is my alter ego in the territory where he becomes my master franchisee. So that approach, the territorial approach or the sub-franchise approach is more commonly found internationally because you will find relatively few single unit arrangements across border. That's the background. Before I turn to the next slide, I see that we have some online questions. Can you raise it please? Can a Pakistani businessman establish a franchisor in the U.S.? What are the franchise laws in the U.S.? That's what I referred to earlier. Yes, the United States is the most open country in the world to accept people to come in and franchise. The laws that apply to you as a franchisor coming into the U.S. are identical to the laws applying to a domestic company coming in. There is no such thing as being able to tell you how much it will cost, because it depends, as Ozzie said, heavily upon what kind of business it is. But there are ways that you can franchise in the U.S. and we are increasingly seeing that. Now you've jumped to question number four, so you need to move it back and tell me the second and third questions, which I didn't see. The franchise law in the U.S. says, can a Pakistani buy a franchise in the U.S.? The answer is absolutely yes. And if you wait till Oslo speaks, you will find out just how a Pakistani can buy a franchise in the U.S. The prerequisites are no different than if the franchisee was an American citizen. He will have to be able to speak English because it would be operated in English, but otherwise, in fact, it is one of the most rapidly growing parts of franchising is franchising people who can deal with the Asperger community of where people from that country have settled. So with that, we will turn to more questions, but let's turn with that background to the question of why is it that companies franchise internationally? There are a number of reasons, and some of them you can imagine. The first and probably most obvious one is to increase the revenue that they get beyond what they were getting domestically. Second is to take, a corollary of that is, to take the investment that they have, which is a fixed investment, and to spread it over a larger base because much of the investment that they have done domestically, they can use internationally. It is because this is a new opportunity for them that they had not had before, and increasingly around the world, there are, there's a market for goods and services from the West, including a growth of the middle class, a growth of young people, and all of those things have led to a growth in international franchising. The brand and shareholder value has been shown to go up dramatically. Companies which franchise internationally have been shown not only to be able to sell more franchises domestically, but that the brand image is increasingly successful as a consequence, and in fact, publicly held companies, studies have shown are considerably more valuable to the public when they have an international presence, and that's why when Izzie showed you the graph of the companies that have international operations, so many of those have gained from that process. We can come back to this if you would like. Let's go though to the next slide, and that is what are the legal fundamentals? Let me talk about a few of them. The first is probably the most important, which is the protection of the name, the trademark. So you've got to be satisfied that your franchise or has protected the value of the name in your country, because otherwise you could be vulnerable to losing your investment. I would say second is the territory. What size territory is the franchise or gonna grant to you? Is it gonna be, it's not gonna be just a street corner because he can't afford to operate an international business cross-border to a single unit franchisee. So they're gonna be more than one unit. Is it gonna be a small section of a city? Is it gonna be all of Karachi? Is it gonna be a part of the country? In some countries it will be the entire country. That's not likely to be the case in Pakistan because it is so large, although it may be. But you need to find out exactly what your rights are. And you need to find out whether it is an exclusive territory. Would you be the only franchisee or area developer or master franchisee operating in that territory? Or will the franchise or have the right to sell other franchises to other people and if so under what circumstances? If you have exclusive rights, what do you need to do in order to preserve the exclusivity? What are the prerequisites for doing so? How long will it last, as he's mentioned this? And it is important that you be satisfied that the term of the agreement is one which will give you the opportunity to get your investment out during that period of time. Yes, you do want to try to get a renewal right. You need to find out what are the conditions here for you renewing it, under what circumstances would you be able to do it on an insured basis? If you get a renewal, will it be on the same terms as you got your original agreement? To what degree will the franchise or have the right to make changes in the agreement on the renewal basis? But you need to be satisfied that in the event you are not able to get it renewed that you've been able to get your investment out in the term of the initial agreement. What are your rights and obligations? These will be spelled out on the franchise agreement, but you need to understand it from the outset. What would you need to do in order to be a successful franchisee and to meet your obligations? And what are the franchise or's obligations to you to meet his responsibilities under the franchise agreement? What kind of standards and procedures would you have to operate under? Are you satisfied that you'll be able to do that? Are there requirements that for one reason or another will be difficult to be met in Pakistan? You don't wanna get yourself into a situation in which you are obligated to do things which in fact you are not able to do. What sort of training and assistance will you get at the outset and then during the term of the agreement? What sort of assistance is the franchise or gonna provide you? How is it gonna operate? Would you have to go to the United States or elsewhere to be trained? Will it be a training facility in Pakistan? How long does the training last? Who are the people doing the training and how much experience have they had? What sort of assistance are you gonna get in terms of research and development? Is the franchise or gonna be continually developing new products and services for you to take on? What else is he gonna do to keep you at the state of the art? So you don't buy a franchise which is very good for the first year and three years later you find that you have fallen behind the competition. What about advertising? Advertising is sometimes difficult for a franchise or in one country to be operating or to be controlling or to be regulating or suggesting advertising in another country because you after all are the person who knows most about what the needs are, not only for that but for other purposes as well. Will the franchise or have an advertising fund to which you will make a contribution? Will you have an obligation to do local advertising? Will it be what kind of advertising would you do? What sort of payments are you gonna have to make? We indicated that you will make an upfront payment probably. You will make a royalty payment probably based as a percentage of the sales but you may have other payments as well, a contribution to an advertising fund. Sometimes there are surcharges for technology and the like. You need to find out from the outset just what it is and to be sure that you can handle those. The, what sort of restrictions are there on your activities? Will you be able to do other businesses at the same time? Will you be able to be a passive investor? If you are an active investor, is there any restriction upon what you may do with the other part of your time? If you want to sell the business during the term, are you gonna be able to? And if so, is there any restriction to whom you will be able to sell? To what degree can the franchise or control that? To what degree can the franchise or say to you, no, the person or company you want to sell to is not appropriate, they don't have the qualifications or can the franchise or step in perhaps and match your price and exercise a right or first refusal and step in and take it himself? You wanna find this out early. You don't wanna wait until the time comes to learn what your rights are in that regard. Are there gonna be any restrictions upon you? And if Pakistan law permits it, will there be any restrictions upon what you can do after the term ends? Will you be able to be in the same business you were in for the last 10 years? Or will there be a restriction permitting you to do this? Perhibiting you from doing this? Finally, Aziz mentioned the notion of negotiability. There are terms that are more and less likely to be negotiable and you should find out from the outset which can be done. There are certain ones that the franchise or will simply not do and that's because he can't afford to allow you to be operating on a different basis than another franchisee in Pakistan. On the other hand, there may be some terms, perhaps based upon the territory you're acquiring, what the value of it is, et cetera, there may be some terms which are negotiable and this is something which you should determine. There is a balance however. Frankly, you don't want a franchise or who was willing to negotiate everything. It may seem appealing to you but think about the fact that that also means he's gonna be negotiating with other franchisees and he may be allowing other franchisees to operate in such a way that are not really in your best interest. So you have to strike a balance between those things which you'd like to be able to negotiate but at the same time know that you have a franchise or who is going to be firmly enforcing the systems and standards in the business. So let's turn then to the next slide and talk for just a moment about specifically franchising into Pakistan. What is it that makes it attractive from a point of view of a franchise or what makes it attractive from the point of franchisee? You are one of the largest and most populous countries in the world. There are some people who say it is the largest undeveloped market in the world. That's very appealing to franchisors. Consumer spending has been increasing from 2010 to 13 it increased by 26%. Compare that for example to the rest of Asia which was 7.7%. Your middle class has essentially doubled in the past decade. That's very appealing because most of the franchises that you'll be looking at will be ones which appeal to a middle class. The age group is important too and you have a large number of young people growing up and that's the future for franchisors. The categories that are appealing and that we've talked about earlier in Pakistan in many ways are the very same as those elsewhere in the world. It is not just the food service industry as you've heard, it's not just the hotel industry but it's also education, it's also security services, it's also health services as the gentleman asked a few moments ago. You're gonna find that in many ways these are the same issues that arise in Pakistan as they arise elsewhere in the world. So much of what you'll be learning whether you do it by reading, I'm going to franchise org or whether you come to the international franchise exposition, most of what you're gonna be learning about is going to be the same in Pakistan. But the franchise or if we turn now to the franchisee's perspective, the next slide. The franchise or is gonna be turning to you because you know more about your territory and you know more about the needs of Pakistan than any franchise or does. He's not gonna let you direct his business but he would be very foolish indeed if he didn't take from you the best that you have to offer in terms of guidance and suggestions. That includes for example, in the food business coming back to the franchise or in saying, yes, there is a taste and a newly emerging taste for Western goods and services but we also have certain things in this country which make it special and you need to pay attention to what those are because if you wanna succeed you need to demonstrate that you are tuned to the local customs and that's why if you go to Japan you will find squid on your pizza which you will not find in America. That's why you will find in your country and in many other countries in the Middle East you will find unlike America that you will find separate entrances in some cases for men and women. You will find pausing at certain times of the day for prayers. You will find that the food has been prepared that certain kinds of foods are not possible and other kinds are prepared to meet your customs and if the franchise or is not aware of this you're probably dealing with the wrong franchise or but I would say at the same time remember he has the franchise or has a basic model. He cannot make changes willy nilly and on that model simply to accommodate a particular franchisee who desires it and you don't want a franchise or who is too willing to do that. With that I'd like to pause and take any questions from any of the group either online or in present. This is, we've moved back to a question for Aziz but perhaps there's a question for me, yes? This is Rizwan from Islamabad. I just want to ask a single question from you sir. If a franchisee closed his business because of the loss or any other reason, what kind of protection the franchisee has in the agreement or how his payment like the upfront payment and the other franchisee is secure? Let me make sure I understand the question. I believe the question is if you have bought a franchise from let us say a U.S. French Azor and the French Azor, I'm not sure what you mean by he loses his business or he closes his business. Do you mean that his entire business in the United States goes bankrupt? Are you mean he simply wants to withdraw from Pakistan? I'm not sure which do you mean? No, not the entire business is bankrupt. Let's suppose the entire business gets to the bankrupt. In the United States, if the French Azor goes into bankruptcy and you have similar arrangements in Pakistan, what usually happens is is that a trustee in bankruptcy steps in and operates the business seeking to return it to some sort of liability. One of the things that trustee in bankruptcy acquires is the contract with you as the Pakistan franchisee. Now under the U.S. laws, he can terminate that contract. If he terminates that contract, yes, it will be a very unfortunate situation for you, but you probably are gonna be relieved for me, but you're relieved from any obligation to continue to pay fees, of course, but you're also, since you have actually probably either built or rented the facility, you're gonna continue to stay in business. It's after all a business of your own. You won't be able to probably continue to use his name unless you can make such an arrangement with the trustee, but you can stay in business yourself. That does not happen often. We've had relatively few bankruptcies of franchisors in the United States and indeed, elsewhere. Franchising has proven to be an extraordinarily successful operation, far more successful than non-franchise businesses, and frankly it is because it is able to use the skills and the talents and the resources and the initiative and the adrenaline of franchisees such as yourself. That is probably what makes it as successful as it is. I understand there are investor visa programs in the US. Can you move up the question please? Can I invest in, you have to raise it, I'm sorry. Question stops at that point. Can you raise it? Can you move it up? Can I invest in franchising to get a visa? Yes. This is a far more complicated question that can probably be dealt with within the time here, but we do have visa programs in the US in which for a certain amount of money of investment, you can acquire a visa for a certain period of time. If it's an additional larger investment, you can get one for a larger period of time, and you may be able to get permanent citizenship as a consequence of that. The application of this to franchises is just beginning, but in fact it is something which we think has a great growth potential, and the Department of Commerce who is sponsoring this program is in fact in charge of that EB-5 program. And you can get through this program and through Franchise.org, you can get information on exactly that. I think you're going to see a considerable growth in it. The next question. If I am buying a franchise in Pakistan, can I see a US franchise or a franchise disclosure document? Aziz mentioned the desirability of looking at the franchise disclosure document. There is no such thing in Pakistan. Pakistan is one of those countries that does not have a franchise law and does not require a franchise or to provide you with a franchise disclosure document. But there are about 40 countries in the world, including the United States, which do have franchise laws. One of those provisions in most of those countries is a disclosure document. So while the franchise or is not obligated to give you that disclosure document from the US, if I were you, I would ask for it. And if he will not give it to you, I would be very suspicious. Now he will tell you, perfectly truthfully, that many of the things in that document are not applicable to you because they're applicable to the circumstances of the United States, including the marketing conditions, territories, et cetera. But there is a great deal in that document that you will find useful. Who the franchise or is, how long he's been in business, what his financial condition is, has he had bankruptcies, has he had litigation, what success and failure have his existing franchisees had, how many, how many has he failed to renew, how many has he terminated. Those things, while not directly applicable in Pakistan, are very much applicable to your business decision. So I would absolutely ask for it. And indeed, even if he doesn't give it to you, you can get it. It's a matter of public record for most franchisors in the United States. But I'd be concerned if he's not willing to do it. Do I have live questions now? Further questions? I have a question. Typically in the franchise agreement, there are upfront payments. Now, as part of the exit strategy, what is the case usually? What should be expected when there is a case where the franchisee would like to exit? Does that require an additional payment? Is that part of the contract usually? Just to understand what to expect. Are we talking about at the natural, at the normal end of the contract when the contract comes to an end or sometime during the contract? It could be, yeah, depending on if it is allowed to exit. Usually does that entail making more payments in addition to the upfront payments and in addition to the royalties? I would say in the overwhelming number of the cases that you're describing, if a franchisee wants to leave during the term, frankly, the franchisee is probably pleased for him to do so because it probably means it's been an unsatisfactory relationship. If the franchisee is not able or willing to step into his shoes and acquire it back, in which case there's a transaction to be negotiated there, and the franchisee may not be willing to if it's in a country many thousands of miles away, but if the franchisee is not willing to, in almost every case with which I'm familiar, the franchisee, if assuming the business is a viable business, has been able to find a successor franchisee, a transferee, someone else he can sell to, and that is something which the franchisee would like to encourage and may, in fact, may even step in to facilitate that transaction because he would like to find a satisfactory franchisee in the shoes of a franchisee who was no longer committed to the business. But there's no standard procedure as far as return of initial fee. Now, in some businesses, like the hotel businesses, there's a term called liquidated damages in which the franchisee will pay a figure which would have been the next two years of royalties or something like that. That's very uncommon. Anywhere except that business, and that's because, frankly, that's a large facility which the franchisee is always going to keep operating one way or another. So, but that's very uncommon. Do we have other questions? If not... One more, just go ahead. Yeah, is there a non-competing pause to this, like, for example, if somebody, due to one reason or the other wants to exit and would like to compete in the similar business, usually is there any non-competing issues or stuff like that? Step back once first and say that there is a non-compete during the term of the franchise. The franchisee or does not want you to engage in the same or a similar business, either anywhere in Pakistan or at least for a certain geographic distance around your location or your other locations or indeed locations of other franchisees. But after the term is over, most franchises do have a post-term covenant against competition that may or may not be enforceable in Pakistan. In general, the Pakistan anti-competition laws make that unenforceable. However, it will be enforceable in many cases if it is reasonable. By reasonable it means what is the geographic distance away from which you prohibited from doing it, what is the period of time during which you're prohibited and what exactly is it you're prohibited from doing? If those three criteria are reasonable, it is probably enforceable. Otherwise, it is probably ruled unenforceable under the law of Pakistan. I'm not a Pakistani lawyer, but we've done about 11 transactions in Pakistan and that's been my experience. Do I now turn it to Aslam, I believe? No, yes, yeah, go ahead. I just like to, yeah. Mr. Phipp, it's a very comprehensive brief that you get. There's no denying the fact that US franchise has really succeeded here in our country, by and large. But my concern is about the kind of formalities that you fulfill, whereby the feasibility of that very product, whatever it may be, is dependent on the franchise or the franchisee. Because if the feasibility is not done correctly, I think the success is not there and then perhaps one has to think of closing the business.  The answer is you do it earlier rather than later. If you get into the middle of the process and you suddenly determine it's not feasible, it means you and the franchise or have both failed to do your homework ahead of time. No one can be certain about anything in this world, but the franchise or should have done enough of a market survey to determine that the product or service that he is selling is one which there's an adequate number of people in the country who want to buy it and that they can afford to buy it and that the competition from local sources is not so great that he can't make it work. That is something which you as the franchisee are entitled to expect the franchise or to have done, but he is going to depend upon you in a great deal in that regard. You are the one after all who knows what will and will not sell in Pakistan. And you should be doing your own due diligence, not just upon him as a company, but the basic product or service which is involved. That is after all the most fundamental question of all, do people want to buy the product and service? I'm gonna turn now to a man who can tell you everything there is to know about coming to America and becoming a franchisee, Osloom Khan. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Admin. Apologize for my sore throat, but I try to get better as I keep on talking up and sitting here about it now and not saying anything so I can't unmute. First of all, thank you for being there. This is my first visit through you to Pakistan after so many years. I came here about 30 some years ago and started at franchising. Matter of fact, I started working in one of the restaurant here and then learned all the ropes in 10 years. It took about 10 to 11 years to get there and then I bought my first 100 restaurants. So right now we run about 300 plus some restaurant and we manage a lot of other companies and restaurant business as well. The, we have currently I have about couple hundred Pakistani in our own organization that are very qualified. Some of them we are getting them into sub franchising because they've been with me for 15, 20 years or so and we are working on that. Very interested in Pakistan by the way. I haven't tried yet. I do have office in Islamabad which is back office that we train people there for the restaurant business. The, tell you about the franchising. Franchising is one of the way to develop business very fast because it takes one year to learn everything to run a restaurant. I can't tell you about anything else like Mr. Ashum or Mr. Zadmin. I am only restaurant guy and I stick to it. You can perfect your skills from A to Z about a year and then continue duplicate yourself. Mean keep on training your best people. You don't have to be tied into one restaurant as you keep on training, as you keep on building your restaurants. The Aziz said earlier and Mr. Zadmin said to you just have to follow the system. There is no shortcut in restaurant business. It's a hard work and franchisor kind of a force on the rules and regulation. My policy always been that I wanna play by the rule and beat you, so to speak. I'm a top 37 franchisee in United States and number 37 in United States. There are thousands of thousands of franchisees in United States. And a part of it and God willing next, probably a year or two, I will be top 10 franchisee in the country. But playing by the rules. I am in a chicken business, fried chicken. They call it church's chicken. Here overseas they call it Texas chicken. I'm in a Long John Silver, which is fish company and Hardy, Hardy I believe is down there and Pakistan too and they are developing up to 25 restaurants. Currently they have about nine of them. That MTS food as it. We also own the A&W hamburger place. I'm currently helping some people in Lahore. They are willing to get into Texas fried chicken. The also like other sector and franchisors very little uncertainty. If you do everything right, you for sure succeed. I've been in 30 years business. No failure and somebody brought up a question about bankruptcy. No bankruptcy. We buy and sell and then keep the right size of the kind of a number of restaurants. So I could have the management people that I continue pay for them. But also we do the bankrupt companies. We pick up companies from bankruptcy and clean them all up. I'm very interested in young people in Pakistan. I'm willing to invest my own money and get somebody from there, from the school best and brightest. Give them a 25% stake day one equity in the business and groom the young man and that duplicate that process throughout the country. That's my mission. I won't find the right party to help me down there. Like I said earlier, I'm doing the same thing over here in United States because I believe when people own some of the part of the company, they work very hard and not only in Pakistan, like I think is in the United States, people are people. Doesn't matter if they are American or Pakistanis. So, he's already talked about franchisors, for Mr. Zadman talked about legals and the same thing. I'm not gonna repeat all that stuff, but I wanted to thank you to have your interest because that's the only way probably we can turn our young people into work and have them make their own business because this is a very easy way to do it. And I'm willing and happy and eager to show you and help you. Thank you and thank you, my partner's here to cover the most of the stuff and thank you guys to be there and thank IFA and the State Department. Appreciate that. If you have any question, please do ask. I have a question with Aziz Hashim. In his presentation, he said that there's a new concept of franchisors of social sector. Pakistan is in fact a developing nation and we have many social problems here. And on our part, we're doing many social activities like the social welfare activities. How we can channelize our effort with some franchisor in the United States or somewhere else in the world? I think there is a forum at the IFA which specializes in social sector franchising which is also available from the franchise.org website. If you go there, there are some resources that have been put into place for such requests around the world because this is becoming an increasingly common request and I wholeheartedly encourage it. I'm telling you that for me, the social sector part of the franchising is one of the more exciting developments in franchising around the world because of what I've seen it do in Africa as I mentioned in the Clean Water project that I mentioned earlier which was done by a very young gentleman as part of our next generation and franchising program. We invited young people to give us ideas in franchising and the winner of the first next generation franchising concept this year who was presented the award at our convention a couple of weeks ago was in fact a social sector franchising winner. He created a clean water purification franchise in Africa. We have a member on our board of directors at the IFA that has a medical clinics in Africa as well. They have over 150 now which are run by nurses totally not-for-profit from his point of view as a franchisor but amazing results in the field where trained nurses have become entrepreneurs and are providing systemized services around Eastern Africa. So there are lots and lots of opportunities here and I encourage you to go to the IFA website and also contact us so we can put you in touch with the right people at the IFA who are promoting social sector franchising. Could I add something to that, sir? Can you hear me? I would just like to add one thing. I'd like to add one thing to Aziz's comment. I've actually had the experience of doing a good deal of this around the world in developing countries including the use of solar energy, water, health, education, etc. I would say that before you try to launch something like this you need to satisfy yourself that there is a model that will work. By that I mean that the principal elements of a franchise will apply there. That there is a substantial number of people who have a need for the particular service or product you're talking about and that it can be done most effectively through some central operation that begins it but a group of people who go out and purvey that good or service to people. Lay aside the financials for just a moment but make sure that that's there. If the model is there, as Aziz said, there are a number of things happening around the world. Some of them may entail a U.S. franchise or or another franchise or from another country. Some of it may entail governments. Some of it may entail foundations. There are a number of ways in which this can be put together but they're going to look to you to say this is a system that will work if we can get these inputs into it from other sources. That would be my recommendation to you. I think there's an online question. Pakistanis seem to have had a lot of success in franchising in the U.S. Why do you think this is? Actually, you're right. I was just mentioning to someone the other day and I don't even know if Phil realizes or not but the IFA, as I mentioned, is the largest trade association of franchising in the world representing over two trillion U.S. dollars of economic activity. You can imagine how important this organization is. You have me as a Pakistani-American who will be the chairman of that organization next year but at one point, Aslambai, myself, and another Pakistani, Tabas-Mumtaz, three Pakistani-born entrepreneurs was on the board of directors of the IFA at the same time. Now, that speaks a lot about America, first of all, that it would be that inclusive to allow three Pakistanis to be in one of the largest trade associations in the world and to have a Pakistani who will be the chairman of it next year but the basic question you ask is, if you follow the system and you work hard, franchising is fantastic. People often refer to me and I don't know about Aslambai, they call me a restaurateur and I tell them, are you kidding? Ask my wife. I cannot boil a pot of water. I know nothing about food but at one point I was among the not as big as Aslambai or 37 but I was in the top 150 franchisees in fast food in America without knowing anything about cooking. That's the power of franchising. If you work hard and you follow the system but you tie up with the right brand. So brand selection and that's why we all spent quite a bit of time on brand selection. There are good franchisors, there are not so good franchisors like anything else in life. So the proper selection of the franchise, a particular attention to unit economics. Can you make money? Which brands we pick are a function of where we find the best return on investment and then as Aslamb mentioned and I wholeheartedly believe in is how you treat your employees. So if he has a 300 unit and it might peak, I had about 80 units, that's a lot of employees. I had almost 2,000 employees.  They're the ones taking the money to the bank. They're the ones treating the customers and delivering the brand promise. Those are the aspects. If you're able to treat people well, you're able to select franchisors well and you're able to select locations well and work really, really hard. The scalability of franchising is amazing. It's just absolutely amazing. And I think as Pakistanis we are somewhat natural entrepreneurs and if we find something that makes sense, we jump right in there and I think that's part of the reason that we have been successful. Aslamb, you might want to add something to that. Well, the same thing you cover. The Pakistanis are natural entrepreneur and I think that is in our spirit. Providing an opportunity, you could do magic as long as you follow the rule and regulation. My policy always been that I want to work within the framework legal framework do not violate any policy but yet compete and I've been competing since then. So far, not only the restaurant that I own and I sold, also I'm a number one call in the United States if there is a bankruptcy case and I can turn them around. I'll give you one example. Last five months, I took a company at a negative for a net worth. Today, six months later, it's about $32 million net worth. We turn things around because we are just a natural entrepreneur and it's a hard work but you have to be sincere to yourself and have a commitment to your commitments. Now, somebody said why they are successful that's why they are successful. Now, in the United States millionaires Pakistani who started from their garage and they are in franchising too. There are millions of millionaires in the United States that are franchising. Matter of fact, we control almost the food industry any which way you look at it. We don't have a calculated mathematical number but I just put our organization together called South Asian Restaurant Association in U.S. and I founded it and I was starting to put the data together. I was surprised that how many Pakistani and Indian own the restaurant companies in this country. In connection with the International French House Association's interests even though it's called international there are many people around the world that think it's just an American organization and it is true that something like 90% of the countries in the world continue to be American in U.S. based even 50 years after we introduced franchising to the rest of the world but that is changing and there are an increasing number of franchisors developing in other countries of the world some very large that's going to increase and the IFA has an interest in helping developers develop in other countries that's surprising I think to a number of people but it's in the interest of the world franchising community for franchising to be established on a sound and solid and responsible basis in every country in the world and if there are and just as Pakistanis have been amazingly successful because of their entrepreneurial drive they're also going to develop local franchisors maybe to operate only in Pakistan maybe to expand their products and services around the world I hope there will be whether you come to the IFA and want to talk about it there or whether you want to write in questions one way or another I'd like to see franchisors not just franchisees develop in Pakistan I think there is a question if you scroll it up I think that question was answered before for a new that was a perfect segment to get into the and I'm glad you had in a written format so you can download it and that's exactly what you need another question I think we answered that one already we already answered that one I've got a question here I've been trying to get some American franchise on board for Pakistan but I've been quite unsuccessful in getting them because they had this image about Pakistan the security issues of the political arena so how do we get to them and try to convince them because I've been in corresponding with few of the American franchise where I was not able to on board and come and try to see our market in Pakistan because there's a lot of potential here because there's a lot of developments going on and a lot of models are being constructed and feel European brands have already been successful here so how do we do that so that's a good point and you're right that sometimes we live in a sort of media driven world and people read a few reports and they see a few things on TV and they draw all kinds of conclusions about what's happening in the country and so I'm not surprised that there has been some reluctance on some US franchisors but the sophisticated ones they get it for example you would agree that Pizza Hut is growing, KFC is growing I think Domino's Pizza is over there now Hardee's is growing as Aslam mentioned so the big franchisors that have the resources and have the world view are small franchisors that don't have the resources and don't really understand what's going on in the country that you will have more difficulty with but I will tell you if you come to this international franchise exposition in New York in June I think your physical presence here and setting up some meetings and talking to these people will be very very important for you trying to make that kind of a business case over the phone or online I think would be really good and now you have some resources you have me and Aslam as your Pakistani brothers here that can also open some doors and give some confidence to some of the franchisors that may be reluctant because we still have family in Pakistan we still keep in touch and we are well aware of what's going on in Pakistan and I think Phil read some statistics earlier regarding the growth and so it's a matter of education but physical meetings and this online world and sending emails and all that kind of stuff I will tell you nothing in franchising or I believe in any business nothing beats a physical meeting so come down here for a week set up some meetings, attend the show let us help you open some doors and I think you will find that the attitudes will change very quickly and talk to the lady she talks about franchising she understands and it is perfectly true that the large companies are the ones that usually take the lead but there are some smaller companies that are bold and are doing this there are companies smaller companies that have gone into Afghanistan some places that are far more dangerous than Pakistan so I don't think you ought to rule out anything but I think you are going to need your own government to help you because no one is going to be able to persuade people about the potential of this company country more than representatives of your government so you ought to put pressure upon your own government to do that and I would say that this program is a testament to the fact that the US government is encouraging franchising in Pakistan because why would they put this program up so I think as Phil says it is just closing the loop here getting some resources and I think as a result of these questions I would tell the State Department group to do whatever they can to further create the education and the awareness of US franchisors that Pakistan is very, very viable and that it is a great place for franchising and as Phil said one of the large untapped markets in the world in our opinion the population and the economic growth in Pakistan is impressive and it won't take very long for a lot of franchisors to figure it out so don't give up come here talk to the people get the government involved let us help you and let's get going there. Well, no business is without risk you've got to take a little bit of risk and I don't think there is a big risk you have a lot of those examples in Pakistan that Aziz mentioned earlier Pizza Hut, Hardee's and other people that really striving and entrepreneurial spirit and moving things forward nothing happened there you know these bad elements you and they are far away we have it over here too no country is immune from that but we continue thriving we don't worry about them day and today how that's government job to take care of it so just stay busy for the future of you and your future generation I was very impressed that every country send next gen young people young people to IFA convention and they were very eager to learn and I think you should have some young Pakistani kids send them over we teach them, train them help them and send them back and I would also say there is an organization that the IFA helped found and is a leading member of and that is the World Franchise Council and to that extent the World Franchise Council is made up of franchise associations from around the world there are currently about 40 some members and I think one of the things you can do there is to encourage franchise association development in Pakistan so that there is a group, there is a body that can work for all of you to promote franchising in Pakistan and then after that that group can perhaps ask for membership in the World Franchise Council which would give you an additional foot in the door of international franchising for you to do on your end and we are certainly ready to help you from our side let's collectively change and make Pakistan relevant to the world I think the franchising is the fastest way to do it and as I myself and Mr. Zathman's legal advice we are willing to help he is by the way a fan of Pakistan any questions thank you so much thank you for attending we shall meet again in New York or else we are in a program such as this good luck, good office