The most effective way to get the people around you that you care about to improve their health through fitness and nutrition is the following. Simply be the example. It almost never works to harp on somebody or preach to somebody on how they need to change things. But being the example often works when you do it in a very calm, confident way.  Be the example, be calm about it, and then watch people come around. Isn't it funny how long it takes anybody who has been bitten by the fitness bug? It takes them a long time to figure this out. Oh, yeah. And I always compare it to religion because I feel like it's real similar. When if you are in your mid-30s or 40s or older and you never really took care of your health, never exercised, never strain-trained, never really ate a proper diet, and you do it for the first time consistently and committed to it. It changes your life. It changes your life. And it reminds me a lot of people that have been kind of wandering through life with no purpose and no belief in anything. And when you're just here and then they find religion and it's like it changes their life. You want to scream from the rooftop.   Well, I've never... And by the way, I'm speaking from, you know, I'm guilty too. I'm guilty of being that guy who... In fact, I've told a story a long time ago to you guys where I got in a fight with one of my good friends because mine was more about talking about how much I love working in a gym and being a trainer and like I was so passionate and excited about my job and it rubbed him the wrong way because I was always talking about it. And it's like... But to me, it highlights that like, you know, people don't always want to receive that information. It's like they have to first want that before you give it to them. I don't care how many of the answers you have for them. It's like if they're not in a position... They're not in a place in their life where they want to receive that or they're asking you, then it comes off horrible. It totally... Well, with health and fitness in particular, because, you know, what's the implication, right? What's the potential implication? Somebody comes up to you, a friend of yours. They just started working out. They just lost 20 pounds and they're feeling a lot better.  You got to do this diet thing. You got to work out.  Like, we're trying to say, I'm fat. Like, you just started doing this yourself, you know? And, you know, I'll do it myself. I'll figure out whatever. It's an immediate, like, defensive response. Yes. What do you mean? I'm not good enough? I could see how religion could do that as well, right? Like, oh, now you think you're better. You know, that's like the natural inclination. Yeah, R.O., this is just another thing that he's on right now. Yeah. Talk to me in six months or a year, right? Listen, so this is... It's an interesting one because the most effective ways I've ever been evangelized into anything was never because somebody came and, you know, hit me with it in my face. Purely by observation. It was always because I was around there. You were observing. And I, something about what they were doing or how they were, I really liked, or I could see what they were doing and I could say, man, the way that that person operates their business or... I want that. By the way, that person's a father or whatever. I want that. Yeah, like, what is that, you know? And then... That's true influence. 100%.  You're just watching what I'm doing and you want to know what that is because it's contagious. Look, all of us have been doing this for a long time. I've been training people professionally for a long, long time. Okay? Like 25 years. Okay? Do you know how many times I sat my parents down or like aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents? Yeah. We're going to do this. We're going to do that.  Like I'm the kid, right? And I'm the parent.  And you're going to do this stuff. And it never works. It never, never... I've been called a health Nazi. Oh, God. I've been called everything. I've been called that a few times. Yeah. It just doesn't work. But the most effective thing I ever did though was just be cool, calm, confident about it. And then people tend to come up to me and go, man, you got a lot of energy or, you know, wow. I'm not going to say tend to. They all do eventually. Everybody does eventually.  You just live the example. Then almost everybody at one point in their life will cross a time when they desire something about that. They want to be better about their diet. I don't, I've never met a person one that hasn't thought to themselves, ah, I need to eat a little bit better or take care of myself a little more. Or maybe I should exercise. And if you are never thumping them over the head with it and you're just living the example and you're the best example in their life of that, they will make them feel the least judge. That's right. They will, you will be the one they come up to say, hey, you know, Sal, I've been thinking about trying to be better about my diet. I've watched you for years the way you are and stuff like that. What do you think I should do? Yes. 100% it'll, it'll, it'll happen that way. But you got to be patient. Well, and it's not just that like, because I think that what happens, we get impatient, especially if there's somebody you care about and you see their health going down or you see the mobility have issues or whatever, you could become a patient, but the bottom line is there is no other way. So in other words, you're not making the choice of, I'll be patient, be the example, and that'll take longer or I could kind of force it to happen. It won't happen otherwise. So even if it doesn't happen, it would never happen anyway. That's right.  Even if you do, they'll never, they'll never stick with it. So like you might be a fail rate is terrible. If you have a child or somebody who you're an authority to, you know, or you can, you can pressure somebody or guilt somebody into, you know, making switch, but they'll never stick to it because they didn't, they didn't ask for it. You know what the, here's all your evidence you need. People I think rely on epiphanies. It's like, oh, they'll just get it. Something's gonna happen. Do you know how many people, you know, this is just rhetorical, right? I mean, you don't need to answer because we, I think we all know the answer, but you know how many people have heart attacks or survive cancer or get diagnosed with diabetes or have blood pressure or have some mobility issue that becomes obvious and still do nothing about it? Most people. So, and the reason why I'm saying that is because then this may happen. Like, oh, my dad just had, he just got diagnosed with diabetes.  Still won't work. If they come to you, you'd be the calm example and you help and you can coach them and do all that, but it just doesn't work. It also makes fitness people, you know, can make us appear, we're easy targets as hypocrites when you're sitting there preaching all the time, because, you know, real balance isn't perfect.  I think too that I understand because I've been in this position too when you have a family member that say has cancer or you're watching them just kind of eat their life away and they're somebody you love. And so I get the, I get the pull, right, to want to, I want to try and save their lives. But I just, when I'm facing those situations, I just take that on as a personal challenge of I've got to be even better. I've got to be so good about what I do that it becomes contagious. And if they haven't asked me yet, then there's room for me to continue to be better. I'm not good enough, right? I'm not doing it well enough for them to, you know. And be there, be there for them when they need it. Yeah. You know, that's the other side of it. Not to be like the, I'm going to go work out and just kind of disconnect from this guy who doesn't want to. You know, I think this is a, this is actually a part of our resistance. So, you know, off air that we talked more about this, and we've mentioned it on air before, that we all hate to be called influencers. And I think that's because we never sought out to do that. Like the mission was to go out and help people and share all this information and knowledge. It wasn't to influence people to doing something. It was like, let's go out and let's give, let's show, let's be, let's be the example. Let's help others by showing others like that. But by no means we want to beat you overhead and shame you or guilt you in anything like that. We've never attempted to try and influence people. So when people call you an influencer, I just, I know some people embrace it and they're like all about it. I hate it. It's fine if it's like it's who you are. It's authentic and it's just magnified, right? Like I think that's the ideal situation. But it's when it's like you start being influenced by, you know, the people are falling. You're trying to portray something that's really not, you know, what you normally do or like you're overly trying to create this persona for people to buy into. It's just like, it just doesn't work. It's because influencer to me, when someone says influencer, it smells like fame seeker. Like, oh, I do this because it gives me followers. It makes me feel important, you know? So that's why I hate it. Because I've met, obviously, you know, we've met a lot of influencers. And I mean, I know people know this, but maybe they do, maybe they don't. But most of them are fake. Like most of them are not real. Well, most of them are doing what Justin said. Most of them are, you know, reading the algorithm, right? Or reading the feedback and the metrics and they're going, oh, when I say these things or when I act this way. Look at this response. It gets me all over. It's disgusting. Oh, I hate that. And so that's why I think none of us like, I think, I mean, it's all kind of in the same vein right of the stuff that we're talking about. I'm not, I'm not. I'll give you, I have a personal example, okay? You brought up religion. You know, if you've listened to the show long enough, you've heard my spiritual journey, but I used to be a very stout atheist.  I like literally was searching. Spiritual. Yeah. Like I was searching and that was the conclusion I came to and I was ready to defend it. Okay. But I was always searching. So I was a real, I was an atheist. And at some point it became more agnostic and there was, you know, stuff that led to that. And then that's kind of where I sat for a while. And then we, we interviewed Bishop Barron. Now the point of interviewing Bishop Barron, the first interview, because we had had him on this, I think twice. The first one was really because it was kind of a, my own curiosity. He was so open to being questioned on the internet. You watch him on YouTube. He was very intelligent. So I said, this will be a great, this will be a great episode. And what's interesting, by the way, looking back this kind of little side note, there were a lot of people that were like, you're crazy for having a Bishop on your podcast, going to crash your podcast. You're like, nobody wants to talk, hear about that on your show. And we all decided we're like, screw you, we'll do what we want type of deal. And so we went down to Santa Barbara and to interview him. And it was really, I was asking questions that I wanted answers to. Anyway, while I'm there, his staff and his team were literally what I'm talking about. They were just, just the way that they were. It opened me up so much. They were just such good people. Nobody was like preaching to me or saying, it was just these really, it was just incredible experience. And that opened me up to asking more questions and that kind of stuff.  They're just like, man, I, you know, God, that guy's so energetic. He's so, he looks good. He looks like he feels good. Like, I want to know what he's doing, you know? And that is the most effective way to, I guess, influence, to use that word effectively, you know? You know, bringing up the Bishop, I actually had forgotten about that kind of moment in time for us. We were really nervous about doing that. I know. I remember, you know, we're still on the rise, right? And we weren't as big as we are now as far as listenership.  And it was like, I remember all of us agreeing that, you know, this is a conversation that we genuinely all want to have and we should do it for that reason. And it ended up being one of the most viral and biggest bumps we'd ever felt in the business to date. And so it was massive. And we didn't do it for that at all. No, no. In fact, we thought. No, we thought we were going to get hurt. Yeah.  Right. Who cares if we get hurt at this point? This is what we want to do. And this reminds me of, I just was, this is just in the last week, I've been going back and forth in our forum and there's a thread going about, you know, the people that were, that didn't like the Adam Lane Smith episode. Oh, really? I remember we had that same conversation, like, you know, do we take this chance and, you know, basically allow, give somebody our platform by themselves, no interview, but to present their information that they're providing. And we all, we all just agreed, like, you know, this could hurt the business, whatever, but I just, we think that we value this information so much. And originally the feedback in our forum, I'd say it was about 50-50. I felt like, oh, wow, there's a lot of people that woke up that said, like, oh, I didn't like it or I didn't, I skipped it. Boys aren't there. And so I was like, man, that's really interesting. And then right after that comes out the Spotify updates for the year, right?  I'll get to that after, just a little side, side. I think it's brilliant. Marketing for them for sure. Well, it's just brilliant for tracking podcasts and showing stats on it. But anyway, I'll take you off call now. And so on the forum, you know, sometimes too, this can be a little bit deceiving for us, right? So we have this community of people that, you know, I'd argue that some of those people are very responsible for the early growth of this business and the support and everything like that. So we value their opinion a lot.  That was an outgrowth, the Spotify thing. And lo and behold, the single most shared episode that we had ever done in the previous year was the Adam Lane Smith episode. And it was so, it felt so good to get that because I'm guilty of allowing sometimes the loud minority to steer the direction of the business when our heart and gut tells us otherwise.  You have a business and we all lead in different ways, but Adam definitely leads the business side the most. And so the struggle is always, do we do what we wanna do, what we think is right, and what's gonna grow the business? Because if you can't grow the business, then you can't do what you wanna do and you can't help people. That's just the fact, right?  So there's a side of it that's always the business side. And you got to juggle that.  But you also, if you have integrity, wanna make decisions that are not just based off of, here's what's gonna make us popular, because it's not who we are, or maybe it doesn't really align with our values. And you could, and trust me, you could always twist and find a way to make it align with your values or trick yourself. And so the kudos that what I wanna say is that we don't do that, you guys don't do that at all. I know you don't at all Adam. So with something like that, I mean, that's awesome, because here's the deal, we didn't do it to get more shares. None of us sat in here said, we're gonna put these Adam Lane Smith episodes up because these are gonna get shared like crazy. No, definitely not. It was literally like, this is good stuff. No, I still remember the moment where Doug was warning us. He was, hey, this is, this may not be a good idea, and maybe we should really think about this, and there's no, and he was thinking, you know, Doug too, was always thinking of protecting the podcast, the business, and he's always thinking that way. And I remember saying, I don't care, like I don't care if it hurts the business, I think it's the right thing to do. And it worked. And it was so nice that it was not only did it end up being shared, but it got shared the most, because if it wasn't shared the most, it was the second most I wouldn't see it. I wouldn't know, because we don't have those. Oh, because the stats come and just do it. Yeah, the stats, the analytics on those things are not easy to obtain and figure out. And so if it was the second most shared, it wouldn't have been populated. So you know what this reminds me of? And then I wanna circle back to the Spotify stats. I don't want you to forget about that. But you know what this reminds me of? Do you guys remember the moment as a trainer? Because this is a very natural thing to feel. And I don't think it was obvious when we were trainers two decades ago. It's a very natural thing to not wanna send your clients to other providers because you're afraid that they're not gonna have the funds to continue to hire you. Personal training is not cheap. Even in the late 90s when I was doing it, you know, it was 50 bucks an hour back then. So even now for a lot of people, that's a lot of money. Back then it was a ton of money. And so the fear was this person just bought 20 sessions for me. They wanna go see a chiropractor or they wanna go see an acupuncture. So they wanna go see a physical therapist. Holy cow, if they take their money and spend it with them, they're gonna have less to hire me. So I'd rather they not see anybody else. There was just like this battle, right? And I remember there was a moment in my career where I just said, I don't, whatever, fine. If they don't have enough money to help me, that person is gonna do a better job at this specific thing. And this is what my client needs. What's best for the client, right? And then do you guys remember this moment doing that? And realizing your business grew because of it? How, wasn't that a crazy moment for you guys? Yeah, it was. And I actually learned that lesson pretty early on in my career. And I think in my experience, the fitness spaces is plagued by some of the most people that are, have that scarcity mindset. I don't know if I've met or been introduced to an industry that has it worse than we do. I just, I just feel like it's so common. Very egotistical. Especially since there's like so, like you labeled some, right? There's so many different avenues to pursue health for people, like as far as... Just pain alone. You have acupuncture, chiropractic, physical therapy, personal training, massage therapy, Western medicine, all of which are valid and have valid methods of dealing with pain. You talk to a professional, each one of those, and they'll tell you they're the best at it, right?  No, no, don't go see that guy, see me instead or whatever. And what's crazy is the clients that I had, that saw multiple providers that I worked with personally were the ones that stayed with me the longest. And they were the ones that referred to most people. It only grew my business. But the crazy thing is that's not the reason why I did it. The retention is crazy. But yeah, if you're just solely focused on providing the best care, the best service, like eventually that's gonna get out. And that's really what separates you, especially like to your point of it, being a very rare thing to find in our space, you stick out like just this beacon. And it's like people can understand that if they go to you, maybe you don't have all of the answers, but you have people around you that do.  And it's not just gonna be this garnering of like, I gotta keep it to myself and make sure that I do all the things. I used to always tell my trainers that you're stop thinking that the customer is so naive and dumb, right? They feel that, they know that. And if you lose out on them as a client because they only have a budget that's this big and they now have allocated that budget over to a referral that you gave them, that's a chiropractor, acupuncture, some of that. And that solves their problem. That one person who may never be able to afford to buy training from you or come back to you will refer you more people. You get the credit. They will send you so much business because you're responsible for them helping solve that problem. Even if you initially lose that business upfront, what you get on the back end is normally 10 fold that. So always keep that in mind when you're making that decision on whether you should outsource or send them somewhere else even if it temporarily hurts your business because it will eventually actually build your business. You know what the irony of that is is if you do it for that reason, it doesn't work as well. You have to literally do it because you really care about the person. Then this stuff tends to come back because sometimes it doesn't come back. And if you're always looking for that, damn it, I referred that person and they did get better and they never referred anybody to me. You know what, it doesn't work. I heard Adam say it on Mind Pump.  It doesn't work. You can't do it for that reason. Or they ask for it, right? Well, I'm gonna go send you over there if it gets, go do this for me. You have to do it with expecting nothing. Today's program giveaway is the new program, MAPS 40+. This is a workout program plus lifestyle guidelines plus dietary guidelines plus supplement guidelines. Like this is a complete package specifically designed for people over 40. It's a great program. It's brand new. I'm gonna give one away for free. Here's how you can win. If you wanna win that, leave a comment below this video on the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know the comment section. Now everybody else, it's a brand new program launch. That means it's on sale, $80 off. Plus we include two free eBooks, both of which will be sold for over $50 later on. So you get the program, $80 off, plus two free eBooks. If you're interested, this is what you do. Go to MAPS 40+, 40 is the number, 40plus.com and use the code 4040launch for the discount and the free eBooks. All right, here comes the show. Tell me about the stats now with the Spotify. So what did you do? You know, maybe Andrew or Doug can look up maybe the actual numbers and analytics on it, but they rolled that out a year or two ago. I think it was two years ago now. So they rolled that out and they saw this crazy massive bump in subscriptions to Spotify just by sharing that stuff. It was such a brilliant marketing strategy on their part to just give that to people because people just want, they wanted to share it. And the amount of ads and subscribers that Spotify got from that campaign, which is why you noticed they've bolstered it, right? So it originally started off with like, yeah, it started off with like, your top five music or your number one thing that you listen to, like there'd be like three or five things where this year they had like all kinds of data that came out. Oh yeah, you could see how many of your, as a podcast business, you could see how many of your listeners listen to you more than any other podcast, how many listeners are, you're in their top five, how many listeners you're in their top 10, how many new listeners you got. Yeah. Like there's always- How many minutes, you know. It's really cool. Yeah, it's crazy. It's really cool because the podcast space lacked all that data.  Yeah. It has been so frustrating. Like, I remember, yeah. When it's like all on iTunes or I guess Apple podcasts, it's been like just a mystery. And it's like, we'll see waves, we'll see like, you know, where it just completely declines and just trying to figure out like where it's coming from, pinpointing like kind of how to best target audiences, like it's been rough. Look at their numbers there. Annual Spotify users from 2017 to 2023. Holy Toledo, look at that growth. That's in the millions. That, yeah. So what's that top number there? My eyesight's getting pretty bad. 551 million. Wow, users. So- And in 2022, it was 433. You guys saw like- So it went up that much. Joe Rogan's up for contract soon, right? Yeah. What's your speculation? Do you think he continues? I thought for a second X would start competing, but because all those advertisers pulled, I don't know how much money they have, so. Yeah, I don't know if, it's a really interesting to talk about and speculate because Spotify and the last, especially with all these companies like contracting, I believe Spotify too just had another massive layoff not that long ago with like 1500 employees. Someone can fact check me on that, but I'm pretty sure that just happened within the last 30 or 60 days. So you have a lot of these big companies that are, you know, contracting and they're, I mean, a lot of the partners that I talked to that work with us, you know, we're one of, if not the only podcast that they continued advertising with. And all of them had said the same thing, it's just that we're completely pulling back on that. Just they need to do things that they can track every dollar. If we spend four, we get eight and be for sure about it. Where, you know, advertising on podcasts, television, radio, stuff like that, it's hard to measure to a T like that. So that being said, and Joe Rogan being the biggest paid podcast that they've ever worked with, I don't know if they, I don't know if they offer them the same thing. And I think they would have to offer the same thing or more for him to even consider it. You know, right? It will reduce the number of its employees by 17%. Wow. Well, what's that? What do you, what do you say? That's from Spotify. I know, but what's he sharing? What are you sharing? We're talking about Spotify and how much they released people and they released about 17% of their employees and the CFO. Oh, recently. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was, when was it? I was just recently. Okay. So scroll, zoom in again, Andrew. December 10th. December 10th. Zoom in again and go to that paragraph underneath the one that you were just looking at and zoom in right there. So I could see that because I saw something. Yeah. It says Spotify has embarked on an evolution of the last two years to bring our spending more in line with market expectations while also funding the significant growth opportunities we continue to identify. There, it sounds like they're, they're just being, they're projecting and being smart, right? I mean, we've, we've talked about this before. All in the last year, you've had all these company evaluations like cut in half.  People just keep throwing money at you like crazy. You gotta make the runway longer by cutting their spending. Right. So the opposite happened last year. You know, they, they, most all these companies evaluations went down by 50% some more than that. And so now all the, all the money is being held and tied up, right? Which by the way, are you, are you current on all in right now? No. Yeah. The speculation on the potential, both sacks and I think Friedberg both said this, believe that a rate drop is going to happen in Q1. And of course he's saying it. I think we've talked about this. Just before the president. Yeah, of course. Because it'll take a little bit for that to actually. Yeah, cause it's hurting them right now. Yeah. And so it potentially is going to. Bad idea. And then if it does that, it's going to set fire on, on the market. It'll just take off again. I know. The housing market will go off and then, and then Tramath chimed in and said like, his prediction is if they do that, that there's like trillions of dollars that's tied up right now that's there that isn't being invested and spent because of all the fear right now, right? So a lot of people that are venture capitalists or angel investors, the money is there. Like we can track, like that there's a lot of money in people's accounts and savings, especially the Uber wealthy. And they're holding onto it right now in fear of like where the market's going to go. Any sign of the market getting even better, right? And that we've already hit potential bottom. And then the housing market taking off, that'll drive the stock market up. That'll drive the trillions of dollars that's being tied up to go back into investing. Blackrock just going to buy everything. And then we're going to be on a rocket ship again. Hey, you know, based on what you said, did you see the office vacancy in San Francisco? Speaking of Blackrock, did you see what their vacancy is? No, what is it? Oh my, I got to pull it up, bro. I mean, did you know they tried to pass something that says that they can't buy single family homes? I saw that was, that was on the dog. Oh, really? Oh, they're trying to, they're trying to pass up. To keep that from happening. Wow. So maybe someone could look that up for me. Not usually for regulations, but that one makes sense. Listen to this, San Francisco's office vacancy percentage. What do you guys guess it's at right now? San Francisco office, so offices in San Francisco that are vacant. Nobody's renting them, they're just sitting there because nobody wants them. Are you asking for the number? Yeah, what percentage? Oh, what percentage? No, not that high. 40% on this. No, no, no, it's going to be over 50. I think it's like 60. 35%. Which is the highest ever recorded, by the way. Union Square, okay. By the way, Union Square is like, this was a great place to go shopping, busy, like prime, prime, prime real estate. Now it's a good place to get heroin. Well, that's true. I drove through there. That's what it's turned into, crazy. Dude, pre-pandemic, they were at 3% vacancy and Union Square is always like never. It's a hotspot because that's where- Right now, 18%, almost 20% in Union Square, vacant. And so now what you're saying- Almost all the retail stores, like when I drove past had been- Well, what you were saying, Justin, was like, I've heard that theory that they're purposely crashing these properties so that these big corporates come in and buy them up for us. It just doesn't seem like it was an accident. I mean, it's just- It's too obvious. It's too deliberate, like how terrible everything is there. You know, like it's just how broken everything is. And how much crime is allowed. And it's just like, it just doesn't add up to me, dude. And so, yes, your mind can kind of spin and start connecting dots that aren't there. But at the same time, it's just, it's such, like, it's such a, I guess for me, like a bad- Well, it's just blatant handling of policy. And like just completely in the opposite direction of like what's benefiting businesses, what's benefiting residents, what's benefiting citizens for what? You know, like you just gotta ask those questions. Do you know what movie, let's see how good you guys are with trivia here. What movie that's the plot of, where corporations organize with governments to crash the property values so that the corporations come in and buy them up? What movie is that? It's a movie in the nine days. It's, yeah. But you probably won't remember the plot because the movie was kind of cheesy, but it's also iconic. Robocop. Oh, it's Robocop. Robocop. Oh, that happened at Robocop. Yeah, where they're trying to crash the property values so that they can go in and buy them up. And Robocop is, you know, he ends up fighting the crime. Oh, I didn't realize that.  And they fight scenes or that. And I'm not thinking about it. Him shooting somebody in the crime. I'm not thinking about it. I remember that. That was traumatic. I remember that scene, bro.  Do you remember that? Didn't they try and re, did you ever watch the remake of it with a, what's his name? Colin Farrell, right? Or was it, no, who was it called? Oh, I don't remember the remake. They did do a remake. I think you're right. They did do a remake and I never watched it. I didn't think, I don't think it got any. Bro, I was it. Were you guys being Robocop fans? I loved it when I was. I mean, yeah, when I was a kid is. I watched it a lot. Oh, I thought it was so violent, dude. So violent. It was terribly violent. Was it really? Oh my God, bro. If you watch it, it's so, I can't believe it. I haven't seen it in decades. Well, when did it come out? When it came out because I watched it as a kid. It's gotta be in the nineties. Right. But I think I was like 12 or 11. Yeah, I was young. And there's no way that movie was appropriate for a kid that like 12 or 11. It's so freaking violent. It's not even funny. Yeah. Like he becomes Robocop because they literally shoot him up so bad that his body. This is like in the movie. What year? 1987. 80s. Holy. Wow. Listen to me. I was only six, bro. I feel like I watched that movie when I was 10 or young. I just say I've. I've watched it. I've watched it. Yeah. It's my parents. Yeah. I'll let you watch that. I was seven years. It was crazy. I didn't realize that. It was terrible.  I don't know. It was good.  Did you hear about this like cyber attack that was, they were trying to do? I guess there was a huge cyber attack. Where was it targeted like? Was it? You know, I'm not quite sure. I know Rumble was down for a while. I see people tweeting about that or whatever. But there's like this big, now it's like stirring up, I don't know if it's just the internet, right? But stirring up like these fears of like big cyber attack and what that could potentially do. There was that movie that came out with Julia Roberts on. Netflix. Leave the world behind. Yeah, I saw that. What is it? I haven't watched it yet, but I've been hearing a lot of people tell me to watch. I haven't watched it, but apparently that's what it's about. It's a massive cyber attack. By the way, you know the producers of that movie? Don't you love these fear propaganda movies? Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, the producers of that. Interesting. Really? They are. No way. Yes, they are, bro. And it's all about cyber attack. And there's a scene where, I haven't seen the movie. I just saw the trailer, okay, everybody? So this is based off the trailer.  I have to like dodge Teslas. So I'm like, why would they?  Rick Rubin talking on somebody's podcast about the lost like artistry in movie and music creation. And the way he defined it was that we've gone away from artists selfishly creating as if they were writing in their own diary or journal for themselves. And we're there. But they honestly, authentically love. Yes. And then they're, yeah, they're creating the art as an expression of their love, right? As opposed to creating things for other people in mind, for audiences in mind for, yeah. And that's literally what all movies, books, all content on social media is all geared. I totally felt he was so spot on with that. Like it makes a lot of sense that like that's a way you would describe like music and movies and television today is it's lost this artistry. And if someone goes, well, how do you, what do you mean by that? There's art and all that. No, it's that, you know, the way art was done, you know, was an artist puts out something that they love and they're not, they're doing it for themselves to express, basically sharing you a part of their journal or their diary, right? Of like, this is what I'm passionate about, this is what I love. And then if it goes somewhere, it goes somewhere, if it doesn't, it doesn't matter because it was. Listen, I 100% agree. Here's your evidence right here.  You look at the Ramones or look at, look at Janice Joplin. Like that is just pure art and there's no way they would have made it with YouTube because they weren't good looking. They looked and acted weird on stage because they were awkward. It was all about their, just what was coming out. And they became known because of the music, not because of the way they looked. You know, I don't know. I feel like it's a double-edged sword because then there's the other examples of someone like an artist like for example, like Teddy Swims who I've shared before that I really like. And you know, if it wasn't for things like YouTube, that artist wouldn't have been found. Like he didn't go sign with a big label. You're right. And then get known like that. You're right, you're right. I'm being too extreme. And he was putting that out, just putting it out on social media. And then because it was so good and powerful, it got shared and then he came. So there's like, I don't know. There's good and bad to it, right? No, no, that's a hundred. That's very balanced. That Oliver guy, the name. Oliver, what's his name? Oh yeah. Yeah. But why did I forget? The folk singer guy. Yeah, so I mean, there's an example right there, right? If someone just putting out something that's so, and he's in the, what backyard playing with no, no production. I guess you're, yeah, you're right. That's very balanced. That's why it sticks out so much. So to your point is like, and I think people are starving for it. And when you do see it, it's like, whoa, it's, you remember like how, you're just not seeing that anywhere. And like how like, it just really pierces through because it's coming, it's exuding from the artist. There's always gonna be processed food, right? It's like, processed food, hyper palatable, hits your senses, irresistible. But is it like a gourmet meal? No. Wicked's purchased the most. Yeah, to your point, there is that. It's processed food. It's harder to find that stuff because we're so inundated with the stuff that has been manufactured to get our attention. So because it's been manufactured our attention, sometimes it's hard to see or for the, we're back in the days, you had to seek out all that stuff. Like, I mean, I remember always like scouring and looking for like, who's the latest, whatever, and listening to all their stuff. And then being like, oh man, I'm the first one on this and like then sharing it to your buddies. Like that's how it used to go down, you know? Yeah, I finally watched and I know the forum kind of posted, we talked about like Christmas movies, like not too long ago. And like they posted one, it was called like eight bit Christmas. Oh yeah, is it good? So I watched it. Yeah, I shared that last year with you guys. You did? That's the Nintendo one I shared with you guys last year. I told you guys to watch that, remember? Yeah, yeah, it's a year too old. Wow. It was good. It was good. Yeah, it was good. I know. It was like, oh, first time I heard of this.  Posted the forum. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, I watched it with the kids. It was a good one. It's like a family good one to bring with the kids to watch because it's like, it's our genre. Yeah, it's our generation. It totally reminds me, even like their interactions on the playground and everything. Like dude, you remember, I remember like there was always a kid that was like held back, that was like huge. Oh yeah. Total dickhead, you know? Oh yeah, yeah. There was always that kid. I don't know if that kid existed anymore. You know, like people just kind of shelter it. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if they do that anymore. So when I was going to school, that was an actual strategy by parents that were really like wanting their kids to be great in sports. So I was friends with a kid who was like, super smart for his class. And it was like, why did you get held back? And he's like, no, my parents wanted me to be more physically mature at a younger age. And so it is. Dominated. Oh, he was. He dominated him in basketball because he was like two grades behind what he should have been in. And he was killing it and all his classes. And so it was like, there was no reason for him to be held back other than his parents wanted him to be. Maybe he identified as a different age at him.  That was before all that. Oh, my bad. Yeah, before that stuff existed. Listen, I went to high school of the Seattle. He was either a sophomore or junior and there was a dude in my class or whatever my year. He was 18 or 19.  Went to juvie for two years, came back.  So he's like hanging out with us.  Who's older brother are you? Yeah, there was this guy had a beard. You know, like he was like the gang and everything. And he just, I don't know why he was there, but it's like, you know, I think it was some group home thing. They're like, you know, and so he, he was there. And like, we were kind of, he was kind of in our friend's circle, but we were always just like, man, this guy, and he was always getting in trouble. And, you know, playgrounds were very different back in the day. Back in the day, but playgrounds, there wasn't a lot of parents at play. It just wasn't. When I was a kid, when our parents would let us play at the playground, they would let us play and the parents would go off. And it was just the kids. And we would just, we'd organize our own governments, basically our own law husband rule. These were the flies, a lot more so. Oh yeah.  Like when I was, you know, a kid, 11 years old, 10, 11 at a playground, you get in a fist fight, like you fight until the fight's over. Like there's nobody breaking you up. You're just going to fight. And it's going to keep going. Now it's like, hey, Tommy pulls a shirt, boom, parents are on top of him right away. So like, what do you mean? When they film it. Yeah. They're like, what do you mean? You would just fight. Like what would happen? Like somebody would win. I'm like, either we'd get tired. We'd give up. You get tired. That's what happens. Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can, I can recall a few fights where we're both, both of us when we're done, just like we're holding on. Oh yeah. If the fatigue is exhausted, you're just exhausted. Yeah, you're in a position. Nobody's doing anything. No, I didn't think it's going to happen. You want to stop? If I let go, you're going to hit me? When you're younger, you don't have the power to knock somebody out. You know what I'm saying? So like, I think I punched a guy 30 some times, you know? And he's like, and then into the fight, was literally just, you know, me laying on top of him and just laying there and just breathing on each other. And then there's always, yeah, then later it's always about who won. I won. No, you hit me. I hit you more. I won. Yeah. I'm too tired. Hey, you know, Dr. Khan broke the seal already, right? And talked about what you did. Yeah, I shared my video. And so I wanted to, may as well update and keep the audience on what's going on with us. I wanted to ask you guys, what's, I know it's early, but are anything different with your diet that you're allowing or you're able to eat or how you feel? Are you, I know he told us it would be. It's early. Yeah, I know. So here's what we, here's what we got. We got a stem cell infusion. So through the whole body, a fall of statin peptide, which was put in a matrix that means you do one injection and then the fall of statin is active for a year to a year and a half. Typically fall statin, you'd have to inject multiple times a day, right? Okay. So here's, okay. So let's back up for a second. So stem cells, these are blank stem cells. They go to wherever your body apparently needs them. Inflammation, pain, regeneration, whatever. And it's like the ultimate anti-aging, you know, therapy they would say. Okay. Fall of statin, when that goes up, myostatin goes down. Myostatin, you might have heard us talk about in the podcast where it's the inhibitor of muscle growth. So they'll take animals and they'll knock out myostatin and then there's like a picture of a whip it, which is a whip.  Just right. So now fall of statin is not gonna make us do that, but that'd be awesome. But according to anecdotes and some studies, probably experience a 10 to 15 to 20% increase in strength, which is a lot, especially been working out for a long time. So those are the things that we got.  And so for autoimmune issues in particular, this is supposed to be pretty awesome stuff. So I don't, it's too early for me to say if I notice anything, I think I might have a little bit more energy, but I can't necessarily tell you. Yeah. So we all went in with different sort of hopes, I guess. And you know, for me, like I've already, I was doing the Cabral protocol for SIBO and for a lot of stuff going on with my gut treatment. And so like I was basically up and done to that point. And now we're doing the stem cell infusions. So now I'm like hoping that that's- By the way, are you taking, are you on dairy? Are you eating whey? So you're drinking a legion protein? Yeah, so I just started bringing it back, not like in full force, but I definitely have had like bits of cheese of like, but it would just be like one thing a day or like every other day. You've had the whey protein. So I had the whey protein. And again, before that, like it didn't really like affect my gut too much, even when before any treatments or anything. And I think it was because of the enzymes, like there was additional, I don't know, it was my, it was more receptive, like I could easily like assimilate it. So I have a question about that Sal, for you. Justin's a perfect example of this. So if you had previously had like a dairy intolerance and you've now potentially saw that, I almost feel like the opposite advice would be true in this situation. Meaning we tend to always tell people, oh, go whole foods. Whole foods is the best way to go. But something that is easily digestible would that be a smarter strategy when you're trying to introduce something like dairy for the first time? So instead of him going out and having a block of cheese, having a easy digestible whey shake. Yeah, the answer to that's kind of, it's complicated. So first off, you can have an intolerance to casein, which is a type of protein found in dairy. You can have an intolerance to whey, which is another type of protein in dairy. Or you can have an issue with the lactose that's in dairy or the fats that are in dairy or all of them. So the benefit of going with a pure whey, and by the way, of all of those, let's just stick the proteins of the ones you're most likely to be intolerant to because proteins tend to be the most active. Casein, people tend to have an issue with more often than whey. Oftentimes someone will get their test back and it'll say, oh, casein is high but whey is low so you can still have whey. The value of a shake is that like so legions whey isolate. There is nothing else in there. So he knows if he knows that whey is okay, he could just do whey and not have anything else and control it. Otherwise he could have cheese, which has whey, casein, the fats, maybe lactose. So then it does kind of make sense for like teasing it out or trying to figure it out like it'll be a quick like, okay, this is okay or it's not. So far, I mean, it's only been a few days. Like the reaction has been non-existent. So I'm happy with that. You missed it yesterday, but I did say something to Sal. And you know me, right? I'm the one who teases this guy, right? Of being like- Adam feels nothing. He's always the guy that feels nothing. Sal's the guy that feels everything. He feels immediately, you feel nothing. I'm like somewhere in the middle. But I had this really interesting thing that happened. So first of all, I've been really inconsistent with my training. So I'm like super weak right now and I expect that, right? And I didn't go in there and go lift. And I wasn't like abnormally super strong. But what I did notice is, you know, when I do incline bench one, first of all, I tend to always prime really well before I get into it so I can get into the movement really good. I've never been good at leg drive, right? That was in fact, I didn't even start to practice leg drive with my bench press until you and I got reconnected later on with lifting and stuff like that. And you would constantly preach to me that- It's a power lift thing style of men. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was totally guilty of relaxing my legs or doing stupas, whatever. So I've never, and even to this day of planting my feet, I never feel like I'm getting the benefit of it. I'm like connecting to the ground really well and driving. I just do it, but I don't feel like I've ever, yesterday when I did incline bench for the first time, I actually felt this like true connection from my feet all the way through. And I actually- He literally came in halfway through his workout, tell me that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is not Adam. How trippy, yeah. That's not Adam. And the reason why I bring that up is because I did overhear Dr. Kahn say that one of the things that we will feel is an improved neural drive. That's from the full statin. Full statin, yeah. Full statin increases your neural drive. Yeah. To me, that was the first example of that, I being able to translate that into my workout or say that like, oh, I did feel something. How has your psoriasis been? Have you noticed anything yet? Cause it's supposed to take like six to eight days. Yeah, no, it's again, I'm reserving my excitement because I don't want to get overly excited about something and then it did not pan out, but it's getting better every day. Every day it's getting better. That's wild. It's cool. And I don't think I've ever gone 48 hours and not had even a desire to itch and pick at it. Really? Yeah. And she said that I would scab over because she shot me 50 times in every spot. And so basically you're going to have, you're going to heal and have a little bit of a scab. And so I do see a little bit of that, right? Cause I saw initial difference right away. And then, but I mean, it seems to be. Weird. Now we also have to say that this is, these are not inexpensive treatments at all. No. This is super expensive. Super ridiculous. But here's the thing though. I remember talking to Dr. Khan and him offering to do this for me and stuff like that as like, you know, as a solid and a favor to me. And I knew the expense of what it would cost. Now anybody who's been riddled with this like I have and you've exhausted so many different possibilities, right? And I love, I don't know, if you guys watching my, my, my post on Instagram. Yeah. It's so hilarious. Like, did you try the carnivore diet? Have you tried this? Yeah, there's a post where I write, I write and they're like, I've, and I say it in the video, I've, I've tried every diet that you can think of, which you, yeah, I know. It says that there's tons of these that are saying, oh, no way, right? And so yes, I've done it all. I've done the tanning beds. I've done the infrared. I've done the steroids. I've done the creams. I've done the pills. I've done the diet, every, every type of diet from carnivore to vegan to paleo, to avoiding just gluten, to avoiding the seed oils. So I think I haven't done it.  So I think I haven't done it. I'm not ready to go there. Sorry, Doug. Hey, great transition, Doug, to the boofing. Oh, great. Yeah. To the boofing. So glad you're going there. Hey, he was so happy. He thought we were almost over. He thought we were gonna, we were missing. Oh, I can't miss this because it was sent to me as a new fitness trend that's happening right now, which is shoving caffeine popsicles up your butt. What? Wait a minute. Stop this. Stop this for a second. Andrew, look up caffeine popsicles, monster drink. You're key string popsicles. Yes. Okay. So you know what this feels like? Supposing it is working really well. Hold on a second. Yeah, of course.  Listen. Okay. Everybody calm down. It's a very direct shot to your bloodstream.  This is not smart, you guys. Caffeine is perfectly- Doug really wanted me to avoid this conversation, but I just think it's too good to not share. This is what, so this is like, if you had, if you had to say, hey, can you just say one thing that illustrates what's wrong with that health industry? This would be perfect. First of all, caffeine is perfectly efficacious orally.   I feel, it almost feels like they're sitting around talking to each other and they're like, bro, either A, how can I be so weird and different?  That's all it is, it's all it is. Andrew, you find all the articles on it in your- I found it in a Reddit thread. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's where you've, so basically it's kind of funny how this came up. So the guy originally was just wanting to know if the caffeine efficacy still works, if he freezes his monster into a Popsicle. And the Reddit thread eventually evolved into, you have more biobiability. That's the real monster.  Yeah, yeah. We're gonna mess his search engine up a little bit now. Hey, he starts typing it already auto-populated. Wait a minute, Doug. Wait a minute, Doug. Okay, so now it sounds more like- So that's how it started. I've actually, I read the same thread. Maybe it's not the fitness space.  It's just like, we'll do any weird thing. Like bro, get that cricket. No, I'll snort it. Well, like what Andrew's saying, he, the person who posted it originally was just asking if the caffeine would still- Of course. Yeah.  Well, you remember the example from the guys, Jackass did that. He took a beer bong and rectally. You remember the butt? Yeah, you remember that? Jackass two? One or two, yeah.  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, it made him like puke. I mean, it hit him so hard. Oh yeah, dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, I can't remember what someone said, like the amount more you absorb by going that way than the other. And it's like, it's exponentially higher. So yeah, 25 milligrams of caffeine, rectally is probably like 175 or 200. I don't know. Orally. I mean, you deserve what you get if you put it barely. But aside from the, and I didn't, by the way, I learned a new boof. I didn't know boof was the thing. So boof is keister, basically. Yeah, I think so. I think so. It's like people in prison. If I'm using it correctly, somebody will. So people in prison sneak things in by boofing them. By boofing them. Yeah, I don't know where, I don't know the origin of it. But you know what, okay, pull out the boofing part and popsicles, energy drink popsicles, so I'm kind of good in summertime. Just make sure your friend didn't boof it. No, am I the only one? Make sure the wrapper is sealed properly. Yeah. Huh? No, that's. Did no one else would do it? No one else would do an energy popsicle in the summer? I mean, I'm sure. I mean, they've done it with like alcoholic drinks. You know why they wouldn't do that? So why not might as well? Why? Because it's too attractive to children. So it would be dangerous. Why they wouldn't sell it, you mean? Yeah. Oh, of course. Imagine having caffeine popsicles in your fridge. So they do otter pops, but they're like alcohol. They are, but can you buy them? Yeah. Of course you can buy them. Of course you can buy them. But do they put them in, are they easy to open or they have a special?  It's so insane.   We'll define it easy. That's what I mean. A pair of scissors. Maybe, I don't know, because you know how when you buy cannabis in California, how all the containers for the edibles are all like child proof? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. I'm wondering if they do that for the alcohol.  So it's like, if I walked in on somebody boofing a popsicle, yeah, I would be so confused. You know what I mean? I'd be so confused. First they're sunning it, then they're boofing it and then what's the other one they used to do where they do like a coffee? That one at least has some origins, some historical origins, but it's still weird. Coffee enema has historical origins? Yep. Really? Mm-hmm. What was it used for and was it to clean out your system? Yeah, that's what it was.  Coffee, maybe Google Coffee Enema Origins, Doug, or maybe Andrew. Yeah, Andrew, go ahead. Yeah. But while he's doing that real quick, while he's doing that real quick, I want to talk about a message that we got from somebody who went and worked with one of our partners, NutriSense. So for people that know NutriSense, you work with people, dieticians, on your diet, but they also work with a continual glucose monitor. So they can individualize your diet based on how your body responds to food, different foods, and everybody's a little different. But the coaching is what's so important, and so that's the message. The message I got was you were totally right. The coaching made all the difference in the world because I can contact this person, they let me, they talk to me, and by reading my, what the message said was, by reading my glucose levels and stuff, I've been able to individualize my diet and I feel way better than I've ever felt. But the coaching made the biggest difference. It's the biggest value of that. 100%. Imagine your glucose spike if you actually boof stuff. You know, it would be way more. It's gonna spike your boof. Hey, hold on. Judged so mad, right? Coffee Anima is one of the ancient medical procedures still in use today for detoxification, since Dr. Max Gerson introduced it for the purpose of cancer therapy in the 1930s. Cancer therapy? Wait a minute. Interesting. Hold on a second. The weirdest stuff. Wait a minute. What if it did? What if the big pharma is trying to hide this from us? Just to, maybe this is the secret. Yeah, that is. That's the cure. Interesting. I'm probably switching things in here. Told you it's been around for a while. Yeah, well, 1930s. Yeah. All right. Do we have a shout out for anybody? I do. Doug, did you write it down, Doug? I did. Your book, The New Gold Standard. Oh yeah, The New Gold Standard, which is the rich one. The author is, let me see the author really quick. It's really been, like, what's the word I want to use? It's been spurring a lot of ideas. It has. And I mean, there's things that I was texting you this morning, right, that I feel like we can be much better on. And I just think Joseph Michelli, really, really good. And it really, really cool to, I mean, for a brand to grow that big and have started, you know, as early as the 1900s and to remain consistent with that, imagine the buy-in and consistency that you have to have. I mean, like, one hotel could easily have 600 employees, and you have over 100 of that. So, about 60,000 employees. But like, have you ever been to a Ritz where they don't embody that? I just think it's so cool. And as I'm reading it, what spurred all this was actually, when we just got back from there, right? I'm like, man, this is so impressive. Whenever I go to one of these, it's like this.  Makes sense. Like, they literally, like, this is like a code that they all totally live by. And they're the things that they did for us, right? Like, so the baths that you guys got drawn or like, that's not like someone saying like, you need to go do this. That's just like, they've empowered them to, and there's one of the, you know, you know, one of their, which we call it. Credos. Yeah, credos, thank you, Saul. That they believe or live by is like, for them to try and find things that even the customer wouldn't expect. They wouldn't expect they wanted and to try and deliver on that, right? It's like, you know. So they could come up. So for example, they could show you like in the morning, say, hey, sir, we know you like coffee, but we froze it for you. In a popsicle form. We heard, we heard from your podcast. Over here, you have a two like this. Hey, if they really did that, even though I wouldn't do it, I would be like, whoa, that's impressive.  Imagine how much that would blow your mind. Like, you would be like, I would actually almost consider it. You don't say it'd be rude for me not to, you know? Yeah, I feel weird about this, but there's a lot of thought that went into this. Let's try this. Hey, check this out. There's a company called Ned that makes full spectrum hemp oil products for a lot of different reasons, but one of my favorite products is their Brain Blend. They use specific concentrations of cannabinoids and terpenes from the hemp plant. So this is a very close cousin to the marijuana plant, but by the way, this is perfectly legal in all 50 states. They use specific cannabinoids, add their botanicals to improve cognitive function, to give you that euphoric feeling, that creative feeling that you get when you come up with great ideas or you have good conversation. I help personally formulate this one. The Brain Blend is amazing. You will feel it.  Try it out. See for yourself. Go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-L-O-N-E-D.com forward slash mind pump.  All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Lori from Texas. Hi, Lori. How can we help you? Hey, guys. Hi, Lori. I am so excited to be here. I just want to say thanks for putting out the message to women how important straight training is, just for a good quality of life. And I think you're awesome. You have lots of fan clubs out there. I have a girls fan club that love you. A shout out to my girls. All right. Awesome. Hey. I just, I listened to all the podcasts. I'm a little bit behind only because of work, but I'll get caught up this weekend. Right on. Thank you. What can we do for you? Well, I emailed you twice. It's like you didn't get it the first time, but I guess here's, I'll tell you a little bit about myself and then I'll read my email. So I've been lifting for about 11 years. I started out as a runner, just running for my mental health. And then one of my friends introduced me to lifting weights and I fell in love with that. My starting weight was about 97, 98 pounds. I was very underweight. I had to overcome all of that. So I have tracked macros over the period of 11 years. And I have put on, to this point, I think I'm up to about 25 pounds. Wow. That's just through eating, nutrition, tracking, lifting weights, cutting my cardio, all of that. I have done a lot of programs. Y'all have shifted my mindset from women's specific training into, it just is based on the individual. So I've done a lot of your programs. I've done aesthetic, strong. I've done aesthetic twice, actually. Strong, I own anabolic advance and I most recently finished split, which I loved. So here's what I add, my question that I asked to you. I basically, I said I've been lifting weights for a long time. I'm 47 years old. My focus at this point is mobility, but also a building muscle. Because I've listened to you have many people on here talk about how important it is for women to have muscle as you age. So I really want to build muscle. I am not currently tracking my macros only because my work is pretty frantic. I'm very busy. I try to make sure I have enough protein with breakfast, lunch, dinner, and my snacks. When I was tracking, I was always at about 140 grams of protein a day. It's really never been a problem. I guess finishing up split, I guess my question is what can I do at this point to continue to build muscle? Because I know my strength gains have gone up, but I don't feel like I've really put on muscle without having it evaluated with in body scan or anything like that. Okay, very good question. So, all right, let's go through the program sequence. You finished split. Before that, you did strong rent or aesthetic? Aesthetic was first. So aesthetic, then you did aesthetic twice strong and then split, correct? Yes. Okay, so you're gonna need to drop volume if you want to get your body to start responding in the way that you want, because all the programs that you listed are great, but they're all very high volume programs. And when you've been training for a long time, well, two things. One, you can't perpetually build muscle. So at some point, the progress, no matter what, it's gonna slow down quite a bit and then it becomes a lot about working on other aspects of performance, improving mobility, maybe working on agility, control, maybe working on stamina. So that'll happen as well. However, the other side of this is we know about progressive resistance or progressive volume, right? You gotta keep adding more to get your body to continue to respond, but there's a point when that stops working and when you need to actually take a step back to get your body to respond again. And what typically happens with people in this situation, all things being equal, let's say you have good diet, good sleep, there's no other factors, is you're gonna take a step back in volume and start to see progress or you'll take a step back in volume, see no change in progress, but then step the volume back up and then you see the progress again, okay? But it's based off of what you're telling me, it's pretty clear that a drop in volume is probably what's needed. Maps Anabolic Advanced would not be the program, but it'd be Maps Anabolic. Or Maps Performance. Or Maps Performance or even Maps 15 with the advanced version. All of those would be quite appropriate for you for about a 90-day period. Now, within that 90-day period, you won't notice a drop in anything. You probably or likely, I would bet money will see yourself get stronger and build a little muscle. Or option three is you just start to feel better, then you ramp things up again and then boom, you start to see results again. But it's pretty clear, again, based off what you said, that we need to drop the volume down and do kind of those basics and stay there for a little bit. I love performance, because one, I think it's gonna be a novel stimulus for it is gonna reduce the volume a little bit and it's gonna address the mobility concern. So it kind of hits everything that you would want. I do think that even a little less volume like Map 15 would be potentially ideal, but I also want to be able to address the mobility concern that she has. And so I feel like that would be the- That would do it all. Yeah, it's two birds one stone with that. Because two, you wanna keep building muscle. You gotta consider these different planes of motion that also if you're not expressing and moving in that direction, you're not gonna be expressing the muscle the same way. And so too, there might be in range potential there. There might be other parts that you're gonna be able to build and develop muscles in a way that you wouldn't otherwise if you're just strictly doing a lot of like sagittal plane movement. Yeah, and look, just to give you just some personal experience, now consider the source, right? I don't typically miss days. I'm very, very consistent to the point where it can be neurotic. Okay, so that's the context here. And I do tend to move towards more than is necessary for my body. The best strength and muscle gains I ever get is when I drop the volume. It's like clockwork with me, I'll reach a certain point where it becomes quite obvious that I might be doing too much. You see it's a recovery issue. And I'll bring things down. And then next thing I know, wow, my body.  And it was because I dropped the volume down. I went down to map 15 style training. And all of a sudden I hit a PR that I broke a previous PR I did in my early 30s. So that's the context.  And you'll know once you get into it, you'll start to feel like, wow, I feel good. I have more energy. You've already expressed how busy your work is right now, right? And like all this added bit of excess stress that you're bringing in throughout the week. So that all factors in. So if you realize that too, you kind of reduce your volume and you see progress with that. That was the answer all along. Yeah, so I think mass performance would be ideal for you, Lori. How does that sound? What we're saying, is it resonating with you? Yeah, I was afraid that's what you were gonna say. I just needed someone to tell me that, I guess. I love going to the gym. It starts my day. I go in the mornings before work. I have to be at work at seven. And so I get up at four. I do go to bed early though. So just starting my day. So it may be that I just go and do some mobility or walk or something like that. Well, that's what, so what's great about that program is still go to the gym five days a week. Go to the gym five days a week. Three of those days will be foundational lifting days, which it's all program. And then the other two, we have mobility sessions written for you. So, and I'm totally for you getting on the treadmill or elliptical and doing that for 30 minutes of low intensity with some mobility.  If you like, I like when I have clients that have a routine where they go to the gym already. And I don't like to disrupt that, right? You've created those good habits. I think that's good. You keep doing that. We just switched what the focus is now. So instead of it always being a full hour lifting weights, now you're doing something more where three of the days are like that. And then two of the days. And then translate your intensity. Yeah, two of the days you do some, you know, mobility stretching and maybe some elliptical or walking on the treadmill type of work. What was the fear? Why did you fear we would say this? Like what's the worry? I just thought you would tell me to cut back on my training because I knew that was probably what I needed to do. Yeah, but why the fear behind that? What's the worry or what is it that feels to you? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but it's important to identify what it is. Like why is it that I don't wanna cut the volume down? It obviously has nothing to do with results because we're telling you you'll get better results with less volume, which will happen. So it's gotta be- Yeah, I believe you. I believe you. Yeah, so what is it? What is it for you? I think it was just, that's just, I'm consistent. I go every day, it's just my routine. But I think as long as I'm doing something, whether it's walking or mobility, I think I'm good. You got it. And I also put in my email, I asked about possibly doing power lift at some time. Do you think that would be okay? Like after I go through performance? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That would be awesome. I love that. You would love that. That'd be a great follow up. And it'll be really cool because hopefully the way this goes is that we reduce some of the volume by going to performance. You see strength gains from that, alone from doing that.  You'll hit PRs in power lift if you follow this one. Yeah, I love that. Okay. That sounds good. Yeah, I love seeing the strength gains. And I definitely have that. It's just the muscle gain. Do you have either one of those programs? 15, mass performance or mass performance or mass power lift? I do not. Those are the two I don't have. We'll send you performance, okay? Okay. Thank you so much. You got it. Thanks for calling in and tell your friends, thank you so much for the support. I will. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, bye. We got a fan club of some Texas women. We got women that like the podcast. That's awesome. Cool. I mean, it's so cool to... She doesn't sound like a female that would gravitate towards a program like power lift. I think it's so cool that you're seeing this trend. So awesome. Right? Like this mom, sweet, kind of South spoken, like was into running most of her life and is like interested and curious. And getting strong. Yeah. I think it's such a...  This feels so much better. This is way different than what I was doing before. Now I can see why people talk about it the way they do. This is amazing. And I think that there is, you know, the fear of like what having to... And I'm all for like not breaking that routine, right? I think there's something to say about... You can still go. Yeah. And you should. I actually think you should. Sometimes what happens when someone disrupts that, then they lose that consistency. Now they're even more inconsistent or what like that. So I love the idea of still going there. Just you just shift your focus on other things that your body needs attention. And I think she's going to see incredible benefits. Her next color is Adolfo from Arizona. Adolfo, what's happening? How can we help you? How's it going, guys? Good, good. What's up, man? Hey, so I appreciate the time. I promise, even though you guys are the Beatles of podcasts, I'm not going to faint. I'll say it like the whole time. I'm keeping that on, dude. I'm totally John Lennon. Yeah. Adam's Ringo. Well, I appreciate it. Now I'll jump right into my question. Pretty recent to discovering Mind Plump, a little less than a year. I've binged a lot of your shows. Lifelong Struggler with Weight. And my heaviest, I was 362. Currently fluctuate as of now, about 206. I've been there around the last couple of weeks since I started anabolic. But I can blow up pretty fast. I've been tracking my food for only about four weeks now, trying to hover around 1,900 calories, but delta of about 200 calories, so sometimes 2,100. My other half, who is kind of unfair, she has a great metabolism and she sabotages my diet quite frequently. But right now, I'm around 26% to 27% body fat. My goal would be to be sub-20s while maintaining or gaining strength. Currently, my protein intake's around 190 to 195 grams, but I get a lot of that through shakes. About 100 to 150 grams, depending on how my day goes. 6'1", 39 years old. Like I said, I just picked up anabolic. Come on week two, phase one. I currently take creatine, ZMA, pre-workout, and a multivitamin. Not all at once, obviously. My goals are somewhat selfish, because I want to have more energy for my kids, five and six years old. My five-year-old, you might see her wandering around here, but I want to look good while doing it. I want to be able to take off my shirt and not feel like I still weigh 362 pounds. But what can I really cut my calories to safely to kind of achieve those goals? And then more importantly, my biggest question is what are the negative effects of getting as much protein from shakes as I do? I've listened to so many of your podcasts, and I hear you guys say I should get a lot of it from natural foods. Unfortunately, with how much I'm out of the house, I don't know, or I can't really prepack a lot of my foods. I just get it through my protein shakes. So what is the best way to, well actually more importantly, what is the best way to keep my focus on that and not deter from the end results? We need a bulk first. 1,900 calories for your size, unless you just sit on the couch all day and don't move is really, really low. I'll say this with Delpho, there's something here that seems a bit glaring to me. You asked about the protein shakes. So without getting into the whole shakes or processed and how much worse or better are they than regular food, et cetera, et cetera, we could go down that path. It'll be a long discussion. There'll be a lot of like are there studies we'll run, not really, blah, blah, blah. One thing's for sure. A protein shake is not gonna produce the same satiety effects as whole foods. So 100 grams of protein from a protein shake will provide a fraction of the appetite, controlling, satisfying effects that 100 grams of protein from whole foods will provide.  So I think one of the best things you can do is really make an effort to get your protein from whole natural foods. It'll feel completely different. It'll feel very different. 1,900 calories where half of the protein comes from shakes versus 19 or calories where all of the protein comes from whole foods is gonna feel like you're eating another 700 calories in your diet. You're gonna feel much more satiated. So that's the first place that I would start. Now to what Adam's saying, look, you have two options. Either you cut your calories now and then get to the point where you lose some weight and then try to reverse diet from there. Good luck.  You're already only at 1,900 to 2,100 calories. I think you said your delta was 200. Makes me think you're in finance, by the way. Do you work with money? Is that what you do? No, not at all. Okay, but anyway, okay. So you could try that approach, which is everybody does that. They say, I'm gonna lose the weight when I lose it, then I'm gonna figure it out.  Or you could take the slower approach, which was that Adam said, which is a slow reverse diet from where you're at.  But I'm gonna tell you right now, half your protein from shakes. I can't stress this enough when you're trying to get lean. The most important thing that you should pay attention to is your cravings, your appetite, your satiety. Nothing's gonna thwart your progress like having to battle with cravings and feeling hungry. There's nothing more challenging than that when you're trying to get lean. That's the biggest problem. So if you're getting your protein from shakes, you're basically short changing yourself there. You're basically doing, you know when I recommend people take a lot of shakes, when they have a tough time getting enough calories because they don't have a good appetite. That's how I encourage them to get more because I know it's not, I know a 50 gram shakes, not gonna make them feel like full, like a 50 grams of chicken, beef, fish or whatever. My guess is he's using it right now to hit his protein intake and keep his calories low. It's like protein shakes are an easy way to get high protein in low calories. And so my guess, because I've trained a lot of clients in your exact shoes, is you first of all, let's talk about what you did that was incredible already. You went from 362 down. I mean, you've lost 150, 160 pounds. That's incredible. That's incredible. It's incredible that you still have it off. Very few people can do that. Now the greatest challenge that my clients would have where you're at now is the mental hurdle of I need to actually bulk. I need to actually increase calories and I'm still not where I wanna be physically, right? They normally, when you get to where you're at, you've made this huge stride and a huge accomplishment but you're still not like feeling the way you look.  And the truth is you've already gone down so low that if you want that next level to your physique, we're gonna have to reverse out for a little bit, increase your calories, go on a bulk, try and add 10, 15 pounds of good lean mass to your body. That's the focus, whether you get all 10 or 15, but that's the focus. Totally possible. Is to build 10 to 15 pounds of muscle, really ramp that metabolism up to where you're able to eat 2,800 to 3,400 calories a day and not gain any weight on the scale. And then now come back down again to that 1900 to 2000 and watch how much leaner you faster you get and how much better you look because you've put on that lean mass.   This is gonna be the biggest challenge right here is to trust the process that I got you. You can easily eat 2,400 calories a day, especially if you're getting it through Whole Foods. Now, and the easy way to do that and follow what Sal's saying is cut out the shakes, go have some nice meats, man.   You're literally able to do both of what we're saying. Number one, you're gonna be able to get the protein from whole natural sources and because it's from food, it's gonna come with a little additional calories. So you'll be able to reverse diet at the same time. Yeah, if you literally replace the shakes with things like I just said, rib-eye steaks, chicken thighs, and some good meals like that, it'll take care of both problems. That's right. We'll switch over to whole natural foods and get more nutrient-dense, solid foods that will be satiety producing. In addition to that, we're gonna bump your calories a few four or 500 more calories a day and I guarantee you're gonna feel better, you're gonna look better. Just the hard part is you gotta be okay with your eating more calories, you're probably gonna take in a little more sodium, little more carbohydrates, that's okay. Your body's gonna hold a little bit of water, trust the process. And watch your strength in the gym, Adolfo. That's what's gonna happen if you do what we say. You're gonna start to feel strong. You're gonna get better pumps in the gym. Just fuel it. Focus on that, not the scale. What program are we following right now? What do you got? Just like I said, I just started anabolic. Okay, let's go. I'm on phase one week two. The best part for me is like I said, I've only been tracking my calories and weighing something like when I do eat whole foods, weighing it, though that passed about four weeks. Really like to be regimented and this is the first program I've ever followed. Okay, cool. Perfect. Losing the weight took forever.  So it's like, hey, you guys gotta pick up a program. And I was like, all right, I gotta finally do it. So I picked up anabolic. The best part is, now there's no excuse to not go do dead lifts. I don't get to just sit there and go, oh, I'll do something else.  And what's great is just seeing the, just in the two weeks of actually being in phase one, just overall a little bit better strength gains. Even though I'm not at the calories that I would really want to be at, but I guess sitting at around the 19 to 2100 calories, like is it okay to just jump immediately to 2400 calories? Yeah, is it okay?  That's what we're telling you to do. You're in a good place, bro. You really are. You're in a good place right now.  Yeah, I know that. Prep your meals. I know protein powder is convenient.  Ground meat too, throw it all in. Yeah, lean ground beef, chicken thighs, those are all very, they're inexpensive and they're easy. And they store really well in the fridge. And then you can make, you can just eat them with vegetables or rice or potato.  And you're gonna literally be able to do both of what we're saying simply by switching out that those shakes with real food. I like to, I'd like to get you into our, are you in our private forum yet or no? I'm not. Yeah, I'd like to put you in there because I'd like to be there as you increase because I do know the challenge. Yeah, the mental challenge. So you have somebody to voice your concerns or reach out to as you go through this process and we can continue to encourage you that you're doing the right things because you are in a good place. It is as simple as adding, getting rid of the shakes, replacing it with good things like chicken thighs and rib eyes and things like that. And the hardest part is gonna be not getting in your own head. So let me get you in the forum. That way I can keep you out of your own way. That'd be awesome. That's the biggest hurdle is, as soon as I put on like a pound, I'm just like, all right, there's. Totally. I'm just like, I'm just grabbing my size. Yeah. I get it, bro. I get it, bro. Adolfo, do this, stop weighing yourself. And if you need to track anything in the morning without eating or anything, measure your circumference or your waist. That'll be a little bit better anyway. Cause if you gain five pounds of water and muscle, your waist circumference probably won't change much at all, but the scale would go up, right? So stop weighing yourself cause it's gonna mess with your head for sure. Okay. I'll throw it away. I'll throw the scale away. I like that. At the EOS that go to a big box gym over here in Arizona and they have an evil. What's nice about it is you can only use this measuring system once a month. So I'll kind of just do that where I'm going to measure and put myself away every day. I'll do that once a month. That's actually great. I would love that. And I'd love to hear from you like that. Once a month, check in with us, check in what it said and what you had been and fill us in on what you've been doing. And then we'll just keep an eye on you and hey, stay the course or maybe we'll make a few changes based off of what you give us as far as feedback. But you got this, bro.  Awesome. I appreciate it. I look forward to being in the forum. And again, thanks for all you guys do. I know you guys hear it all the time, but the stuff that you guys do, it's pretty crazy how things come to fruition kind of spiritual guide myself. So I'm always finding answers in places I don't expect and you guys kind of fell in my lap. And it was one of those things where it's like, God opened my eyes to, hey, there's people out there that'll have your best interest at heart. They might not be close to you personally, but you guys have really opened up a lot of avenues for me. So I do appreciate what you guys do for not just myself, but everyone that listens. Well, thank you very much. God bless you. God bless you. Huge compliment. Thank you. Thank you guys. How cute was his daughter trying to do the hand stuff behind his shoulders and stuff? Yeah. Little funny ears and yeah, I know it's so funny. I mean, you know, what's cool is that the answer was, you know, the both things that we wanted him to do, it was one thing that he had to do to be able to satisfy both, right? And just take the shakes out, eat the food. It's a psychological challenge. I knew when I saw the breakdown of the shakes and the grams of the calories, I know what he's doing is he's just trying to eat just protein. Yeah, eating whey shakes that are 100-something calories and 20-30 grams of protein. I mean, there's another way he can do it, right? He's just trying to manage it. You can go skinless, boiled chicken breast. Yeah. But I mean, that's literally like it's an easy way to get high protein, stay low calorie, but that's not what he needs right now.  So looking forward to seeing his progress. Our next caller is Jason from Arizona. Jason, what's up man? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going? So my question is, I'm a newly turned professional golfer and I have a deep passion and first strength training and then just building athleticism in the process of trying to be a pro athlete anyway. Right now I work out five days a week and do mobility pretty much every day and do cardio, usually three or four evenings a week and I practice six to eight hours a day. And it kind of sounds like a lot, but just kind of my process to becoming a pro golfer has been pretty wild. I had a pretty similar childhood to Sal so just came from nothing to Masonry since I was 12 years old to pay for this and was lucky enough 12 years in to be able to turn pro. So I was just calling to see like, what do you guys recommend I do to continue being able to grow and train as an athlete while also keeping my skills up? Oh, I love this. Do you, Justin, who's the name of our guy over in Arizona? That's the golf, you work- Brandon, Brandon. Yes. PFS Brandon. Is it PFS? PFS Brandon. Yeah, you follow those guys? Yeah, I do follow them. Okay, good. They're legit. Like he's got a lot of really good content around golfing. Jason, I'm gonna tell you something though that I've personally seen with athletes when they achieve a new level of competition. It's a very common mistake. So I'm just gonna communicate this to you so you don't make that same mistake. So what they'll do is they'll train really hard to get into a new division or go from high school to college or college to pro or qualify for this marathon that I all of a sudden could qualify for. What they do is they stop doing what they did that got them to improve and try to radically change their training because now they're in some new category and that almost always backfires. That almost always backfires because what you were doing obviously got you to this point. Now there's nothing wrong with fine tuning, but it'll be a huge mistake for you to be like, oh my God, I'm a pro now. Now I gotta do all kinds of different stuff because the odds are by throwing new things at yourself so radically that you're going to change your biomechanics, your movement, you're going to actually hamper how well you perform. This is a very common mistake with athletes at this level. Your level is that now I need to make these massive athletic leaps in order to have that edge on my competition and physically I need to be stronger and I need to be bigger. I need to have more power in my swing and all these kinds of things when this is such a high-skill sport and you're doing a lot of mobility and I think this is like an area that is overlooked a lot but it seems to be that you're addressing that right away but really it's a lot of that, it's such a high-skill thing that all the emphasis is on aiding and benefiting the skill portion of it so that way your body moves in a fluid manner and it provides the kind of stability and grounding that it needs. My recommendation is you are already checking all the boxes as far as the training, mobility and everything you should be doing. My concern would be if you were my client is teaching you how to feel your body and know how sore you are or did you overreach and learning how to scale back on the intensity of your training, right? Now golf is starting to ramp up and that's obviously our priority, right? We're a pro, you want to be the best golfer above all other things so everything we do is to compliment that and we don't want to get it in our own way so what I'm always would be checking in with you is like, hey, how'd you feel from yesterday's workout? Are you feeling good? Do you feel fluid? Do you feel connected? How was practice? Did it was as good or better than last time? And I'm wanting to check in with you on connecting the dots of when we train this intensely in the gym, what happens to our golf swing and our practice and make sure that it's always complimenting that and making us a better golfer and it's not impeding on it because I'm doing too much in the gym. Like that would be our conversation. Yeah, look at it this way, Jason.  Twice as much strength. Your golf would be worse the second you would go out to the field to play with too much because now it's gonna change everything. It's gonna change your swing, the speed, biomechanics. Now all of a sudden you're a terrible golfer even though you just got twice as strong. Here's the other thing to consider and this would be very general what I'm saying but it's roughly true at early ages the difference between the best athletes and everyone else's talent. You go up a level and then it becomes the difference between who has got talent and who also works hard. Then when you get to the top of the level do you know what makes the difference? Mindset. Everybody works hard. Everybody's got a lot of talent. Now it's the people who can handle stress. It's the people who can perform under pressure. It's the people whose heart rate doesn't go up and they get nervous and sweaty when they're in under the spotlight and oh, they're behind and what do I do? And you consistently see this with studies across the board. You see this with high level military individuals as well everybody gets into SEAL school for example has got the physical fitness to be able to complete it. The people that make it are the ones with mental toughness. So my point with that is I wouldn't change anything radically about your training. I think Adam said it was beautiful. I would look at recovery, mobility, kinda honing things in, listening to my body and then you really wanna know what's gonna make a difference is mindset training. And to that point Dr. Brett McCabe is a great resource for that and we've had it on the show before and I haven't thought about but he deals with a lot of pro golfers but it's very mindset driven and I fully agree like that's kind of like where you're at now in your career of like getting to this point is like now how can I really sharpen and fine tune? So it's consistent like it's the consistency of performing against all the variables that are gonna come at you. Can you consistently have the mindset that makes you as good as you could possibly be? How do you hone that in? How do you train and develop that? That's now where the focus should be because whatever you do with your training and practice to get you here is working. That doesn't mean you can't get any better but definitely don't radically change everything. I hope I'm hammering that home. Had you heard of Brett before? Do you know who Brett is who we're talking about? Yeah, I've heard of that. I watched part of that episode. Bro, that makes a huge mindset is where at your level at the pro level that's the difference right there. That's the big difference. I'm making it this far, man. That's awesome, dude. Huge accomplishment. Thank you, I appreciate it. For sure, congratulations. And then do you have any of our, you have our RGB bundle, you're following that. Do you have MAPS Prime Pro? Cause I think the correctional exercise stuff in there would be their benefit for the back pocket. Your Prime Pro or even symmetry with the isometrics and unilateral work. Do you have it? Yeah. Do you have those? I don't have either of those. I just have the RGB bundle at the moment. Okay, I like, you know, here's it. Symmetry is great. Prime Pro, I think though, if you have that, you'll always be able to go to that whenever you have an issue. Yeah, you'll always be able to pull from it. So let me send that to you for free. Awesome, thank you guys so much. You got it, man. Keep us up to date on the journey, man. We'd love to hear our ghosts. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I'll let you guys know for sure. All right, Jason. Awesome, talk to you guys later. You guys, do you guys have any experiences, personal experiences where you realized, like, oh God, this is all, this mindset part is everything right now. This is the why I'm performing good or bad or... Yeah. Like when I competed in one of my first big tournaments in Jiu-Jitsu, I remember in practice, like I would never guess, like you could throw, like I could go round robin, 10 guys in a row. I felt like a machine, fluid, moving, whatever.  In one match, I was so gassed. I felt like I had no fitness whatsoever. And I was like, what is wrong with me? Am I sick? Like what's going on? I was nerf my mindset. My mindset was totally off, it threw me off completely. My performance sucked as a result of that. Yeah. Well, going into college, it was, my mindset was very much more on like, I'm undersized and I'm not powerful enough. I'm not strong enough, I'm not fast enough. And so I put so much effort in that direction that even when I was finally, you know, a good size, I was, you know, pretty quick and I could move quick. I didn't have that killer edge I used to have. And that was all like mindset driven. Once I finally kind of came back and revisited that, my last year, it was like a completely different performance I would have. Well, I remember when they, I shared this study a long time ago on the podcast of all these super high performing athletes, like the Steph Currys and stuff. And downhill skiers, like the most elite. The fighter pilots. Yeah, the most elite of elite. One of the things they all had in common was extremely low heart rates in extremely scary situations. Like the more stress pops up, the almost calmer they get. Yeah. And that's not because they did a lot of cardio. And so their heart rate was low. That's because of their mindset. Because if you train it. Yeah, they train so well for those moments that they were actually, oh, I've been here before. I know what to do. I got this, you know what I'm saying?  Like, yeah, this guy's doing, Jason's doing plenty already as far as- Everything he lists, that's why I was like, I don't really know where to go. And again, like, I've seen so many people do this. Like, okay, now I'm paying college. So now I'm going to double my volume. I'm going to radically change my workout. And they hurt themselves or overdo it. So I don't know what you were doing worked. Keep doing that. Our next caller is Brendan from Missouri. Brendan, what's happening? What's up, Brendan? How can we help you? Not much, how about you guys? Thanks for having me. Hey, hey. You got it, man. How can we help you? So I'm a big, big listen. They're a huge fan. My main, my only question revolves around butt wink. All right, let's move the term while squatting.   Stop looking. No, we know what that is. A little bit of a pellet tilt at the bottom of the squat. Yeah. So my question is, have you avoid that? And also, is it as bad as it comes off to be? Because I think in my gym, especially, you walk in there and probably 50% of people with back squatting have it. Okay.  Do you, does it, do you, does it like, start burning while you're doing sets? Does it hurt you later on the next day? Is it, is it uncomfortable? So I actually emailed you guys Saturday, right after I worked out, and it happened in my last set of anabolic phase one, and it hurt pretty bad. So bad it locked up something. Actually, what's the doctor yesterday? Oh, wow. You said my joints just inflamed, put me on some steroids and muscle exercise. Should be able to lift in a week. But so usually no, but every once in a while, yeah. So that's what made me reach out because it actually was bothered me quite a bit. That's what determines whether or not it's an issue for most part. Now where does it, what joint was inflamed? Is it your SI joint? Where's the pain? Is it on one side? The SI joint and a little more on the right side. Okay. All right, so, okay, so there could be a few different, couple, here's the most common reasons why somebody's pelvis will tilt excessively at the bottom. I say excessively because the movement in the low back a little bit is probably not a bad thing. It's natural. Yeah, it's probably not a bad thing. Depends on the individual. What becomes an issue is when you start to hit ranges of motion that are close to the end of the range of motion. So now what happens is your spine's ability to flex or extend is supporting you. In other words, it's extending or flexing and it's in its deepest range of motion with that. Then you add load to it and now what's holding you is your spine joint. That's when it becomes a problem. But if muscles supporting you, it's typically not an issue. The two areas that tend to be an issue are stability in the hips. So mobility, stability in the hips and or, and this is usually the one, is ankle mobility. So have you tried wearing squat shoes or elevating your heels to see if it still happens? I wear those no bowls, the preflats and not squat shoes. So here's how you might know. You're gonna want to test this out. Wear some squat shoes or stand on some like 10 pound plates under your heels.  If it goes away or it gets a lot better, you got to work on ankle mobility, okay? If that doesn't change, then there's probably some hip mobility issues and maybe some core stability type issues that I would want to focus on. And we have some great, we have a great program called Mass Prime Pro that'll address all of those things. Yeah, send them Prime Pro because I actually think that even if these are- Hip sand ankles. Yes, I think that I've, I've yet to meet a client where me teaching them 90 90s and combat stretch for your ankles has not benefited them. Everybody- It's never been a detriment. Exactly. I don't know anybody who I've trained.  And then I've had other people where that's just, oh man, I feel better in my squat now. I feel so much more comfortable. I feel more stable at the bottom. Like, I'm so glad I do that. So like, you're gonna benefit from that. It's like, it could be life changing or game changing for you though. Like it was for me.  So this, I know the guys were teasing about me at the beginning, but that's because this was something I suffered from. So I had excessive butt wink. In fact, I was so bad that anytime that I did high rep squats, if I did over eight squats after that set, I'd be laying on the ground because my low back was just on fire. And I'd be like doing back presses and like having to take a break because my low back was just, and that's because I just had so much of an excessive wink back and forth. And so once I worked on my hip mobility and my ankle mobility, it completely eliminated that. I was able to get all the way down, stay in control of my pelvis and then come out no problem and not have any problems. So that's step one, really. It's like regaining that kind of stability in both ankles and hips.  If anything, you're gonna be like pausing at the bottom and making sure that you're connected still. You're still like being able to have that kind of muscle contraction intention that you have supporting your hips and your lower back. So to do that too, like the Duffy Squad is another good sort of drill to run. So it helps you kind of focus on that, that specific fact that you need that kind of bracing, you need that kind of tension in order to support your spine so you don't have problems. Now just keep in mind, Brendan, there's a lot of moving parts in a barbell squat, but you're looking at the knee, the ankle, the hips and of course the low back because it's attached to the hips right there. And if one of those joints isn't doing what it's supposed to, then the other joints are gonna move more or compensate for that in order to allow you to perform the movement. So that's why we're telling you to look at those two things. So you might be thinking, what does it have to do with my ankles? Why, what do you mean my hips? They feel totally fine. Well, if your ankles aren't able to allow for the range of motion under control that would produce a good squat, well the next thing that's gonna take over or have to do that is maybe your hips or your low back. So that's why we're telling you to work on those things.  Yeah, I try to break 90. Okay, for the time being while working on those things squat down until you feel like you're about to do the butt wink and then don't go any lower. So that's your limiting, that's your range of motion.  Work on that mobility and then as your mobility improves start to lower the squat, but I would stop squatting to the point where you get a butt wink. So stop, stop just short of that. So if it's just a 90 squat, so be it. So do that instead of do it on, so what if I do it on the 10 pound plates and then I don't wink? Do it on 10 pound plates or without? I would prefer, okay, so. That's a bit of a crush. Yeah, I mean, I would prefer you work on your ankle mobility and then be able to do it with your feet not being elevated.  It's also a good, why Sal's giving you that too is actually just so you get that confirmation. It's just a test. Like that's like, so if you go put your heels elevated and it feels like one of the most comfortable squats you've done. There's your problem. You know, that's it. Like there you are. Like you just doing that. And nor if like, let's say you do some, you prime with some 90, 90s and elevate the heels and you feel like you've had the best squat you've ever had, like there you go. Like it's, you need to work on hip stability and mobility and address the ankle mobility and just put the work in to do that and it's going to get rid of it.  Yeah. And so the waiter comes over, oh, I'll fix that and he folds up a napkin and sticks it under one of the feet. Okay, that's squat shoes. So, I mean, you could do that but you could also get a table that's balanced and that's probably a better answer. And fix the base. That's right. Awesome. That was very helpful. Thanks guys. I want to give one shout to a huge listener, Mark Gorman, but once again, thank you guys. You're the best. You got it, man. Take it easy, bros. Have a good one. Looks like he sells insurance. Did he say Mark Norman? That's what I said too. That's an awesome comedian. He said Gorman. Oh, Gorman. Oh, he said G. I'm less excited. It's his boy. Shout out to Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  So I'm like, okay, I work on my ankle mobility or I could squat four plates. Let's do that instead. I get it, you know what I mean? I get the whole deal, yeah. That's why that happens. Because you want to keep progressing with the ego lifts. I mean, it was, it hands down one of the, if not the best and most important things I think I ever did in my training career.  We got to see that transformation. And to this day, I have yet to ever have low back pain ever again. Isn't that wild? Your whole life coming and gone. My whole life, I always just, and you know it's so funny because it runs the family. My sister, my uncle, my cousin, like we all have like low back and we all have that kind of shift like that. And we all- You also stop wearing heels. Yeah, that's true. The high heels. Definitely. That'll do it.  Here's what you do. Go to mindpumptrainer.com, sign up. There's a three day training course I will be hosting starting January 15th and it's free. It's free, go sign up. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin on Instagram. I'm at Mind Pump DeStefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.