When you and me cannot talk and we are in a deadlock, call a mediator to get us together. Mediation is the way to go, everybody. Mediation is the way to go for conflict resolution. Let us heal our nation. Good day, St. Lucia, and welcome to our launch of the Alternative Dispute Resolution Campaign. This campaign is spearheaded by the Registry of the Supreme Court, St. Lucia, in collaboration with Compete Caribbean. I'm your host, Lisa Evans, and today we have three experienced panelists who will speak with us about mediation, its benefits, and the ways in which it can advance commerce and business in St. Lucia. Welcome, panelists. Good morning. Can we introduce ourselves to our viewers? My name is Francis Compton, and I am a trained mediator. And in addition to that, they style me as the regional mediation coordinator. OK, welcome, Mr. Compton. Yes, my name is Andrea St. Rose. And I am a trained mediator. And in addition to being a chartered accountant, I'm also an attorney at the moment. Thank you, Ms. St. Rose. Yes, right. Lisa, I am also a trained mediator. But my main role at this time is as a high court judge to be the head of the mediation committee, court-connected mediation committee, which manages mediation in the high court. OK, all right. Well, the saying goes that the first will be last and the last will be first. So you are the last to introduce yourself, Justice Bell. Could you tell us a bit about the history of mediation in St. Lucia? OK, there's an old jazz standard. I don't know if anybody here is a jazz enthusiast. This is jazz time in St. Lucia. But the old jazz standard called what a difference a day makes. And if you're looking at the impact of mediation, we have to go back to the time when the civil procedure rules were introduced in the Eastern Caribbean. And those rules were introduced for the express purpose of ensuring that the court could manage its case load better than what obtained prior to the inception of those rules. So we had rules that not only tried to manage the conduct of cases in terms of the material being filed, how they should be filed, how they should be managed as the matters actually ranked the court, but also introducing for the first time the use of ADR, and in particular mediation as part of those rules, as part of the system of justice, of trying to have matters managed justly and expediting matters in a time which is helpful to everyone. And remember, as quickly as possible, not at speed is the objective, but not to base time in situations where people are looking at technical issues rather than looking at what they have in common and how they can resolve differences. So from the inception of the CPR, it was written into the CPR that ADR would be part of the court's repertoire, so to speak. You start at the very beginning of the rules, and you see that the rules require that lawyers and any officer of the court, the primary objective is to make sure that cases are dealt with justly and expedited. So that then refers you to another rule. It says when you're managing a case, one of the things that you should refer to the parties is the availability of mediation or ADR as a route to resolving the issues in your matter. So these are instruments available and mechanisms available on the rules of the court for parties who are involved in disputes to immediately look at the opportunity that exists to settle those disputes. Now, I know that the court in St. Lucia, it was spearheaded in St. Lucia, first of all, and that is where the first pilot project was started in St. Lucia. Yes. That's amazing. And then it went on from there to be spread to the entire Caribbean in practice direction of 2003, number one. And that practice direction then settled all of the various aspects of the mechanisms for introducing mediation into the court system in the region. So we can say that we are trendsetters and that we can set the standard for mediation and ADR in the Eastern Caribbean. Because, of course, the headquarters of the court is right here in St. Lucia. It was there at the time as well. So what we had then was it being rolled out through all of the territories, the states, the member states, first of all, and territories of the Eastern Caribbean. But, Justice Bell, to interject, what kind of impact did the introduction of mediation and ADR have in settling commercial disputes? So what was it like when this was introduced? First of all, the initial thing was to try to determine what kind of dispute it was. It did say, the practice direction did say what kinds of disputes would not be settled. But it didn't try to say at first, well, only we focus on commercial or whatever. But the reality is that as long as there's a marketplace where people enter into contracts, as long as people are doing business and using machinery and labor and that kind of thing, accidents are gonna happen, things on the road, et cetera, et cetera. All these things are interconnected. So the more you're developing and the faster you're developing, the more likely it is you're gonna be getting disputes coming to court over your development issues. And when they come to court, they may not appear that way. They may appear very personal and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, it is really a person who had a contract to deliver something and it wasn't delivered and therefore somebody wants to know well, should they still pay or they actually feel they should have paid or that the other person owes them money because the thing wasn't delivered. And that's a contract breach and they want to sue. Question is, how important is the business relationship? And then you start to look at those kind of issues. I'm sure Mr. Compton will have a lot more to say about that. But when you look at those kind of issues, then you realize where the opportunity is from mediation because even though on paper, it may appear as though this is a, oh boy, this is a difficult dispute here. This is a real parting of the ways. At the end of the day, those two persons may somewhere along the line still feel that they could do business with each other. And if that is part of their feeling, well, then mediation gives them the opportunity to settle this matter, move on and continue doing business. Continue making money and continue developing. Continue making money, yes. Yes, just as that, I don't know what your take is on this, but from my perspective, I see the mediation process, at least when it goes through the court system, it comes a bit late. And what is your take in terms of making recommendations for mediation to form part of the pre-action protocol so that matters dealt with even before you get to the state where you file your claim. I have no difficulty with that. That exists elsewhere. I saw forms in New York City, I visited courts, and I saw forms where lawyers have to make declarations that they have tried a form of alternative dispute resolution before bringing them out of the court or before the first case management hearing or the first hearing in the court system. So that is actually fairly normal. We didn't do it at first because I think that the concern was at first that we wanted people to know that they were under the direction of the court. And we wanted the mediators to also be subject to a referral. We wanted that kind of formality at first so that the mediator would have to wait for a referral from a judge or a master to have to get the mediator going under our core connected mediation system. The concept that it could be brought over here by an individual could simply come to court and say, well, I did go to a mediator and we didn't settle or whatever as the case may be. That is not something that should be difficult to implement. Okay, thank you so much for that. I know we're on fire. We're about to take a break and we'll pick up from this point afterwards. Thank you. Pamela, I noticed that you built your retaining wall on my property. You'll have to give me my land back or compensate me for that. My contractor isn't dumb. I trust that he will not build anything on your property. Where is your proof? Let's go to court. This situation does not require you to go to court. Looks like we have to go through mediation here. Mediation is a way people resolve conflicts like this. Someone, a third party, comes to speak to both parties. This person is called the mediator. The mediator is impartial. He or she makes sure that communication between both parties is effective and efficient. So the mediator is a judge? No, the mediator is not a judge. Mediators, unlike judges, do not decide cases or impose settlements. Let me get a mediator to handle this retaining wall and that kitchen. Kitchen? Yes, your kitchen also falls on my land. Let me call the mediator. And we are back. We ended on a very interesting note about the role of court-connected mediation and mediation prior to entering into the litigation process. Mr. Compton, can you enlighten us about mediation and just continue along with where we stopped off? Okay, just to carry on from where Justice Bell left off. I want to refer to the practice direction already alluded to by Justice Bell. When the practice direction was promulgated and the thinking behind that at the time was that the court should be given the opportunity to manage cases and part of that management process included the opportunity and at the time it was suggested that the judges should recommend to the parties during the case management process that they try mediation. And what the court did was to train sufficient mediators so that and put some on a roster so that the judge would have a panel of mediators that persons could be referred to and would then mediate the cases. Now I have to tell you that the court made it its business to train persons at a level to operate with the court in terms of resolving disputes. Now, there was a little bit of evolution in that the court or the practice direction said that the judges should recommend ADR in particular mediation. Now what happened in the evolution over time? The judges then after we realized that mediation works because I have to say it at Justice Bell can support this in the initial stages and that had been told to me by certain judges some of them have gone to the grid beyond. It was difficult at the time for the chief justice to get all the judges on board as far as accepting mediation. Many of them or most of them accepted it but some were skeptical as to. And it's reasonable, judges would say for instance it sometimes takes us two, three years to resolve a matter. How do you expect a lay person with no legal training to resolve a dispute that is in the court in three hours? So people were very, this is how initially mediation was given three hours within which to resolve a dispute but with additional time added. But gradually people began to see that mediation works because as I said the mediators were trained properly to operate at that level. And in the initial stages, a number of cases were selected so that persons would find not too great a difficulty in resolving. So what happened in the evolution process is that judges became more robust in recommending parties to mediation. And I remember there was a particular judge and she just had to open her eyes fairly wide to the parties and they would understand what she means by recommending that they go to mediation. And we found this worked. Yes, so the results were positive when persons were referred to mediation. The project as Justice Bell mentioned was set up in St. Lucia as a pilot. And the pilot was expected to run for one year before it could be deemed successful enough to replicate it in the other OECS territories. It was so successful in St. Lucia and very soon after practice direction, 2003, yeah, number one of 2003. Yes, even before that, the Chief Justice then appointed me to be the regional mediation coordinator. Now I have to say that mediation is run with a regional mediation coordinator and individual mediation coordinators in each of the territories. So we went about identifying persons to be on committees in each of the territories and persons to be appointed as mediation coordinators in each of the territories. And after my appointment, what we did, we did not wait for a year and we started the replication program by training persons, identifying and training persons in each of the OECS territories. So you find that within the year that it was supposed to be piloted in St. Lucia, we were piloting it in all the OECS territories. Yes, and we selected, there is a process for selecting persons to be trained as mediators and there's also a process for appointing persons to be on the roster of court-connected mediators. All these things were done very well in the initial stages. So the project became very successful in each of the OECS territories within the year that it was supposed to be piloted in St. Lucia. So listen to what you're saying that the process is so structured and it's proper that the general public and business owners and persons who want to access mediators know that they're trained to a high standard. Oh yes, yes. A very high standard. So they have that confidence that they're getting well-equipped persons. Oh yes, absolutely. And that was made absolutely clear in all our publicity information at the onset. And it's important to note that the court is aware that not all the persons that access its training could be deemed suitable to operate at the level of the Supreme Court. We have persons, as was alluded to, who operate at the magistrates level or who could operate at the community level where the expectations at the community level may not necessarily be as great as at the court level, because bearing in mind, not only can a trial judge send a matter to mediation, but we realize over time that even at the level of the appeal court, if a matter arrives at the level of the appeal court and the appeal court judges feel that this is a matter that could be mediated, they're free to send it to mediation even at that level. So they know that they have trained persons who could operate at that level as mediators. And those persons who are not on the roster, and I must say it's not everybody who's on the roster who would be called to mediate, because the mediator has to develop himself or herself to be acceptable to the lawyers who are the greatest consumers of mediation. And for that reason you find some, in all the territories of the OECS, you have some persons who rise up to the top as far as their selectability to mediate any matter and there are others who would occasionally get mediations. That does not mean that the persons who are not selected are not good mediators because the court has a pre-selection process to select persons to be trained. And then after the training there's another process to select those persons who could apply to be placed on the roster of court-connected mediators. And then the rest is for the consumers of mediation to determine who they want to select to mediate a particular case. That was very succinct, Mr. Compton. I'm sorry but we have to take a break but it's really great to know that we have a high standard for court-appointed mediators. We will be back after the break. Oi, you have realized you step on my tour. Well, do something about it. I'm going to burst into dust. Hollan! If somebody tries to cross you Hollan! And your matting start to take you Hollan! No need for all our violences because the police is there to help you Hollan! If our trouble starts in this session Alright! No need for aggressions Hollan! We don't want no violences in the play Control your temper Respect each other Trouble escalators, you know Control your temper A message from Mission Boys Studio 758 Acid Creations and the Royals and Lucia Police Force. So we just found out that not only is mediation available through the registry of the Supreme Court in St. Lucia and not only are our mediators trained to a very high standard but mediation is one of the choice preferences for settling disputes and settling conflicts throughout the Caribbean and I can say throughout the world one of the things that we realize that's very prevalent in St. Lucia and one of the things that we are pushing for is the development of businesses the development we're trying to create in the entrepreneurial mindset. Many women engage in business activities we have vendors we have female farmers we have female professionals and consultants and I'd like to pose to you Ms. St. Rose how can women better utilize the availability of mediation when they're faced with conflict when they're in a dispute especially you know where there can be power imbalances you know employer, employee you know you're a vendor you sell to a larger business owner and for some reason you don't get paid on time you know how can women take advantage of what mediation has to offer Okay so let's start as a listen an environment where there's a process in place for settlement of disputes is very good for business it's also one of the means that you know the country can use to attract investment an investor would not like to know that you are operating an environment where if you have a dispute it will take years to get resolved and so that is a very good selling point for St. Lucia as a whole that we have a proper system in place to assist with the resolution of disputes businesses on the whole people enter into transactions there will be disagreements disagreements will arise just as one of the things that go with doing business Yes and so it is very important that people are able to take advantage of that process to assist them in resolving disputes efficiently because time has a value to it time has a dollar value to it in that you do not want to be caught up in a process where you are going into court of a protracted period of time when you have a business to run in the case of women in particular they face imbalances that we will have to accept in that when a woman goes into a dispute situation say with a man there is that feeling that the man is in a higher power authoritative position and so I see mediation as one of them is that could assist in resolving that sort of power imbalance and to ensure that women can take advantage of the business opportunities that are available to them and don't shy away from the fact that I cannot deal with this business person because I don't have the authority to bargain with them because if a dispute arises I cannot get it settled and so I think that it is very good that we have a proper system in place but I think that needs to be a more more education needs to go out there to allow people to be aware of the disputes that are amenable to mediation in my experience I have come across a number of situations where disputes arise with financial institutions for example where people have entered into agreements with the financial institution then interest rates have changed without even proper notice to the business person and as a result they end up in a situation where the loan goes into a raise then you find that the institution is taking action to foreclose on their properties I have seen cases where mediation has successfully come up with a resolution in terms of allowing the parties to continue business I have also seen cases where in the workplace mediation has played a significant role in terms of resolving disputes between employer and employee especially when it comes to situation where people are complaining about the workload compensation and the imbalances that exist discrimination between what is paid to a man versus what is paid to a woman I have seen cases where these things have been resolved through mediation personal injury is another situation where I have seen mediation come into play where people have been able to reach agreement in terms of the level of damages that they would accept for loss of employment for example for pain and suffering I have seen these issues come before mediation with successful with successful resolution the one thing I know many advised people when you enter into an agreement is to have a clause in there that speaks to mediation as one of the the first routes that you would take in terms of resolving your dispute before you run to the court for a resolution from my perspective as well mediation is cost efficient in that it is the timeline for mediation generally takes maybe you know three hours, six hours depending on the nature of the resolution and so for the businesswoman who does not have you know significant resources this is a way of obtaining resolution to a dispute efficient manner that's really true you wanted to add anybody else before we close? the whole thing about mediation is that it is empowering because an individual who doesn't have a lot of resources and time for something like court would want to know that they can get the dispute resolved in a manner that is done quickly, relatively speaking, and relatively not very costly and therefore individuals who may be involved in small businesses mentioned vendors and so on which tends to be dominated by women they can see themselves as being empowered by the fact that they can now actually take charge of their situation and resolve their disputes by way of mediation, the assistance of a mediator Oh, highly trained mediator Yes, a well trained mediator and that in fact leads them to recognize that going down the road every time they have a problem it doesn't mean that you know their business is probably facing closure or something like that they have to look for money they can actually resolve the dispute and go on and move on with their lives Yes, that's great, Mr. Compton, final words? Yes, I wanted to add to what Justice Bell and Andrea said here when a mediation is completed during the session the mediator will actually write in ordinary language, no legal reason ordinary language and agreement that the parties themselves have arrived at and they will sign that agreement but the mediation process allows for that written agreement to be sent back to the judge the judge will read that agreement and confirm in his mind I mean mediators are trained to recognize this as well but as long as that agreement is doable and is not illegal as far as the judge is concerned the judge will then issue an order subsequent to the mediation agreement and will attach that handwritten mediation agreement to the order That is awesome That order is enforceable in a court That's amazing, so my view is you've heard it for yourself mediation agreements are enforceable by the court through the process is available so please call us today 468-7500 you can have a look at our website www.lcmediation.org find us on Facebook LC Mediation on Twitter LC Mediation YouTube LC Mediation we're here to help you resolve your disputes in the quickest most efficient way and also to help enhance your relationships so for the longevity of your businesses and your livelihoods thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to interacting with you online to go everybody mediation is the way to go for conflict resolution let us heal our nation


It's time for Mackie Cab and listener Jeff brings us our quick tip of the week with a Carplay tip that is true in iOS 17. I thought he said some would enjoy this Quick tip in maps in iOS 17's carplay Maps used to work this way and then they removed it But now they brought it back when you have an active route navigating in maps There is the box in the upper left corner that alerts you to your next turn If you tap on that box it will silence the turn-by-turn directions tap again and the voice returns I find this far more convenient than having to pull up the volume icon on the other side of the screen and tap Multiple times. I love this tip. That's a great one. We've got more quick tips like this plus your questions answered today on Mackie cab 1001 yet another fun palindrome for Monday, September 25th 2023 Folks and indeed welcome to Mackie cab the show where you send in quick tips like that You send in your questions you send in your cool stuff found we share them all we try to answer your questions Sometimes we have questions of our own We organize things such that we build an agenda giving each of us the best chance possible To learn at least five new things every single time we get together Sponsors for this episode include green chef comm slash six zero MGG where you use code 60 MGG to get 60% off plus free shipping We'll talk more about that in a little bit for now here in Durham, New Hampshire I'm Dave Hamilton And here digitized from Liege Belgium Pilot Pete could be here Dave and if I digitize too much folks. It's another hotel Wi-Fi. It doesn't seem No, but I think we're gonna muddle through and we'll muddle through it'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah, we uh, you know We'll figure it out. So yeah 1001 I love these numbers and we've had three great numbers in a row here Dan Bach the math jock on Twitter said a fun fact about the number 1001 it equals 7 times 11 times 13 Interesting Dan's Dan box the math jock. That's why we know this he says so if you take any three digit number Multiply it by 7 and then multiply the answer by 11 and then multiply that by 13 You might get a surprise. So I will leave that exercise for the listener But yeah, thanks, Dan, and yeah, thanks for thanks for everything. It's this is great. I love I love the power answer I'll get a surprise Right no public math for me, that's right Yeah, public math is terrifying and and yet sometimes we we still we still do it All right, we're often forced to it's embarrassing. Oh Yeah, I guess you do have to do public math sometimes. Don't you know with you know, yeah, right down Yeah, well and you have devices that can do this public math for you. Do you not we do we do indeed, right? So, yeah, you know Always trying to verify the airplane computers telling you one thing and you know trust but verify trust but verify. Yeah, okay I like that. Yeah, yeah, I'll take that All right, we have a tip from Tony. I figured we had a ton of quick tips this week you folks sent in a Absolute great whopping truckloads of them to us at feedback at Mac geek gab calm That's what he said feedback at Mac geek. Yeah.com. Yes. I said it feedback at Mac geek up calm we've we've Curated this week's quick tips collection to be things about either the new OS is that Apple just released or The tips that might help you when getting a new phone Just because we had to you know, we got to make choices But they are not Sophie's choices you see because we've saved those quick tips and we will include them in 1002 moving on to this next one Tony Reminds us. He says on my series 8 watch. I was able to enable double tap to To do all of the things that I want to do and he sent us a link to a zini net ZD net article Easy for me to say that that that talks about how to do all of this stuff So we will we will share that in the show notes But but yeah, it works You can you can set it all up and they talk through exactly how to do it with the accessibility settings and and all that stuff So yeah, yeah, you get a settings accessibility assistive touch Enable hand gestures and there are four that you can enable pinch double pinch clench and double clench These are all with your hand folks hands Are with your hands It's it's not we're not we're not fine that because because here Pete in case it's ever unclear We are always here to talk nerdy to you Right, not the other word not the other one. You got it. Yep So thank you for that Tony while we are on the watch Dennis has a Tip for us here because this is a change in In watch OS 10 and the changes in how we switch from one watch face to the other It used to be that you would just basically swipe There have been some fish shakes about that going away for me and I understand that I don't mean to be dismissive of that for me It's a fist unshake because I was accidentally changing my watch face all the time with the simple swipe to change face So I'm kind of happy that they changed it Pete But yeah, but it is you know, I don't know I wonder if it was different for the ultra because I've been doing that for a long time on the ultra then the swiping I'll press. Oh, yeah, so we didn't we didn't share the tip yet, but the yes We should how about it? The tip is you got it in front of you go ahead and take it Yeah, go after upgrading my watch I could no longer switch watch faces by swiping from right to left or left to right The new tip is to long press the watch face and select from your active faces and select the one you want You can also add a new one from the gallery. I hope this helped someone and that's from Dennis Juergensen. Thank you, Dennis Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Yeah, and You know what I don't get and maybe maybe it's harder than it sounds But it sure seems to me out a bit now with the complications you can customize them a lot should be able to design your own There should be some kind of a frame that you know or a template That you can you know put these things in how you want them what you want to look like set the Font set all kinds, you know, yeah, you know, yeah, I mean I'm with you that apple though before you go back to my ability to turn my red light on when I'm in the night mode I want to be able to turn the red light on without but you know Yeah, well Ben Ben shares a quick tip about that in fact Ben Says that you can or sorry not not been R. N. Doug shares a quick tip about that Ben is Ben will be the next one R. N. Doug says that the watch OS 10's new modular Ultra face has a night mode that is triggered by ambient light So if you use the new modular ultra face and the ambient light is such that it decides in its infinite wisdom That it should be red it goes to red for you. So Apple knows best Pete. Yeah, if we're at fish shake here, baby Let me tell you because on the ultra it was nice I could when I was in only in the way finder mode face Yeah, but I could just turn the crown and it would go to red and I can keep it that way I Could set it when I wanted it red and yes Yes, and sometimes in the airplane even though I've got the lights on a little But I still want that to be muted now it comes up It's like yeah, and then other times it's muted and it's like no I really need to see what that says right now and I used to be able to just turn the watch crown and go Oh, there it is. I see what I need. Yeah, so some things are automatic Probably be nice to have manual control over them again, and I bet you know I'm gonna go play with some accessibility and see all and I'll come back if I can find a way to Re-manualize those that's a new word word of the day re-manualize Re-manualize, okay. All right. All right. It's just to me some of those settings that are automatic You should be able to have manual control over Just saying well, but Apple knows best Pete. I know right. All right. I hear you They think they do Yeah, ask them, right? Yeah. Yeah, they do I didn't ask them. They do think they do that's true I mentioned that Ben had a tip for us and it's a good tip. We keep our watches Generally, even us really super nerdy people keep our watches Longer than one year. I know not all of us do right and and I know not everyone replaces their phone every year but but you know by and large there are There's there's a lot of folks who replace their phones more frequently than they replace their Apple watches myself included and Ben reminds us that it's a good idea To check the battery capacity of the Apple watch So that you know where you're you know, how it's doing there and the way that you do that is you go on your watch into settings general battery Battery health and then it gives you a percentage number and my my series five watch which I've had for you know Quite a few years now is I think it's at 80 84 86 or something like it, you know, it's not not terrible. So Yeah, yeah, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna quick call a quick audible, too So we had a text message come in this week to the background group of of I don't know How would you define that group Dave? It was from Debra. Remember the one from Debra? Oh Yeah, we have we have a we have a group of Of people if we call it the Macworld expo refugees group It is folks who used to attend Macworld expo like press type type people Podcasters in general that that we used to attend Macworld expo together and and so we People on there and Debra wrote in and said Considering the new watch wants to be able to wear it all time and and was worried about it getting it wet and You know asked, you know, is it okay to do it with this particular watch? It's the new one right the series nine. I've lost track of what you did. I think it's Yes series nine with watch OS 10 correct. Yeah, so my point the whole point was yes, you can get the watch is wet I'm not sure when it starts. I know I had a series eight I used to swim in all the time and there's a little complication It used to be you swipe up now. I think it's the side Yeah, now it's the side button the action button. Yeah, you push that and there's a little Icon in there that has Water droplets on it you press that and then it then you turn the crown and that's how you eject water from the watch if you get it Wet they've specifically designed it to sonically push water out of the watch. So the watches are more waterproof than Yeah, one might think yeah So I guess Apple is vague about how waterproof it is even though I think there's a rating system on there Well, your your ultra is very much rated as it's a dive watch. It's a dive watch, right? But yeah, I mean even I remember even with these what we call the series zero now the very first Apple watch Craig Hawkenberry was swimming daily in the Pacific Ocean with his watch and Never had a problem with it. So I mean he would rinse it off simply because of the salt But but he yeah to my knowledge. He never he never ran into issues with that. So And a correction Ben Ben corrected me that to check your watch's battery capacity It is not inside general the battery Setting pain is right at the top. It is a a first-class citizen in the settings app. So it's just settings battery battery health So so sure. Thank you for that Ben. Yeah, thank you for the tip to begin with too And all that's happening in our discord You can you can join when we record the show We live stream it so that you can listen or watch and we love the real-time feedback that comes in That's at Mackie cub comm slash discord And you can find out when we're doing it by simply subscribing to the Mackie cub calendar at Mackie cub comm slash Calendar that's also where we push events for their calendar events for our zoom hangouts that happen Semi-frequently we are I'm going to be scheduling the next one We had a request with and and we love these requests. We had a request to talk about email clients I will say that our zoom meetings our zoom hangouts are truly just hangouts where we just get nerdy with each other, but We found it helpful to have a Sort of foundational topic for those moments when there's not something else to go off on a tangent with It's nice to come and have an idea is like well, let's talk about and with the with this, you know, the change is coming in Mac OS Sonoma with mail plugins not working anymore The idea of talking about email clients and how everyone's using them and all that stuff would be a great sort of Interactive hangout conversation. So I think we'll I think we'll do that. I haven't scheduled it yet So I can't tell you when that's going to be but you can find out Mackie cub comm slash calendar We also announce it in our discord and all that good stuff. So yeah, it's been a couple months since they hang out It has yeah, the summer my summer schedule was very Unpredictable so it yeah, and and right now it's not great, but it's better I just started another theater show which eats time in strange ways, but yep When upgrade to moving on with our quick tips here into the when you upgrade to a new device Gary has a tip for us He says you were talking in the last episode about upgrading Migrating from one iPhone to another and how the app binaries don't transfer if you are doing it Over the air a word of caution if you use Authenticator apps to get into say VPNs at work or to authenticate for your bank account or whatever it is The company says the company I work for uses a ping ID Which is just one of the various, you know RSA has theirs and there's all kinds of different authenticator apps He says that's what they use he says since I am what the company calls a help desk administrator their version of IT I get support calls where a caller bought a new iPhone for whatever rhyme or reason and Even though the ping ID app will be downloaded onto the new phone when bringing the phones together Most callers assume that the data is transferred and immediately erase the old phone Which means for security purposes? I then have to verify the caller and go into the back end create the new log in and he says these Codes do not transfer over unless you manually back them up in the app Make sure and when you migrate to a new iPhone if you have these kinds of things that you That you just test it on the new phone before Wiping your old one you might be able to save yourself and perhaps several other people Great big headaches. So thank you for that reminder. That's a it comes up every year. So Yeper. Yeper. I did it once. It's not fun. Nope. It's not fun. Yep Refer to that as a self-inflicted stupidity wound. So Like if you don't know You don't know that's right. It's not being stupid, but and it's not Intuitive it that's the thing that's the thing is it that it should go in all your other data migrates over Why doesn't this and it's for security reasons that it doesn't like it is specifically flagged as data that should not migrate but You know, there's nothing there telling you hey, you're migrating would not be nice remember when you like when you upgrade macOS and You upgrade and there's some significant change that renders an app Unlaunchable you get a folder used to get a folder on your you know on your desktop or somewhere That would be like these apps are no longer usable. I forget what they call it But you know, it's like and and look here like why couldn't there be a hey We transferred all of your data except these three things that were flagged as do not transfer That'd be super helpful. Yeah Wow, so and speaking along the transfer lines the back mommy asks in discord Does the you and I don't know the answer to this Dave. I assume it will Does the e-sim transfer? That's a really good question. I don't I'm trying to think if I have upgraded phones since I got an e-sim I have and it did yes. Yes, so it I think it will but but you know Like be aware. I think yeah, I think there's a part answers. It transfers automatically. Yeah, I seem to remember Okay. Yeah, I seem to remember it doing that but Again test it before you just go and like wipe your old phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, great question. Yeah Speaking of Sims Listener John has a tip for us poor those John it turns out to be When moving to a new phone make or when moving to a new sim even on the same phone You need to reactivate both iMessage and FaceTime Especially if you are transferring your current number to a new e-sim E-Sims are tied to a specific device for security reasons So when you change your e-sim it disconnects everything associated with the previous e-sim iMessage and FaceTime are Two of those apps native to the iPhone. Yeah, that that makes sense You got to make sure you go back in and and re-enable iMessage and FaceTime Make sure your text message forwarding is still doing what you want it to be doing Check those things because they do get disrupted by those things. So yeah stuff. I like it We open the show with a car play tip Pete and I have another one I've ranted here on the show in the past about how when I am say at the theater at night And I get in my car and I plug my phone in and it intuitively Offers to give me directions home, right? You know because it knows and I said and I tap home It then gives me the choice between two options alerts only or go right if If I had gotten directions to the theater and had turned off alerts for that trip in ios 16 and prior alerts only and go would be um Or if I turned off turn by turn navigation alerts only and go would do the same thing I would not get turn by turn voice guidance At all it would be off if because if I hit go It would keep the same mode that it had which was oh, okay No, no voice guidance, right right with ios 17. That is fixed alerts only and go Mean what you would intuit them to mean if you choose alerts only you don't you only get alerts You don't get voice guidance if you choose go it turns your voice guidance on Regardless of its previous setting which is exactly as I get why why give me a choice If they both are going to do the same thing Right it just didn't make sense. So I was I was happy to see that um remedied yes And one last tip that we have about carplay from listener Andrew I and I think this has been there for a long time and I Either learned it and forgot it or I'm learning it for the first time now On your carplay home screen You have the status bar with the time the signal strength the open apps that the sidebar, right? And at the bottom of that is that we talked about this in the last episode That can either be the small grid of eight icons or the small grid that that shows you you could go to a split screen view Whatever it is If you instead of tapping it if you long press it It will bring up siri for you So you don't have to like try to trigger siri You just long press it and you are good to go All right, I want to tell you about our sponsor green chef green chef makes eating well easy with plans to fit every lifestyle So whether you're keto paleo vegan vegetarian gluten free or just looking to eat more balanced meals Green chef offers a range of recipes to suit your preferences I'm eager to receive my first delivery here and I've been looking at these recipes in the menus form Their italian shrimp and creamy rice looks awesome and it's ready in just 15 minutes speaking of saving time Their 10 minute lunches are also something to try out chef salad with prosciutto and erby feta is what I want to have today And then maybe have like the beef tenderloin with cherry balsamic sauce for a perfect fall dinner Green chef is the number one meal kit for eating clean with dinners that work for you Not the other way around and eating well doesn't have to be boring, right? 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It's awesome again green chef dot com slash 60 mg g Use code 60 mg g to get 60 off plus free shipping and our thanks to green chef for sponsoring this episode So pete i just got a text message from my son who is working in my office Which is right underneath the studio here and he tells me That ups has come we are recording this on friday the 22nd Which means that my new apple device. Oh, I know what you got. I got a typhone You got it. I want to call these things typhones because when we had titanium power books, we call them tybooks, right?  It is sitting Probably about 14 feet underneath my desk here at the at the moment so Dave go get it. We'll wait. Yeah, I you know, I thought about that but instead of Going to get it what I will do is share a tip that porthos john who is becoming the mvp of this particular episode Shared with us in discord in response to our discussion last week about whether we should migrate Over the air like we always have or directly from phone to phone and he Makes the case for using a usbc to lightning cable to transfer from My old 14 pro to my new 15 pro and he and there's a couple of reasons for this He says the absolutely fastest way to do this has gotten easier because of these usbc connectors because It's easy to have a usbc to lightning cable. That's something Many of us might already have and so you just plug it in Uh, you turn on your new phone You choose your language, but don't go farther wait until the setup new iphone screen appears on your old phone And tap continue to confirm your apple id you wait for an animation to appear on the new phone Capture it with the old phone still with the cable connected So you're doing all the things that you would do for the wireless transition But you're doing it with the cable Wait for it to activate your new iphone when it's done You'll see a message on your old phone that says finish set up on new iphone That's where you type in the passcode from your old phone and on the new phone and then set up face id or touch id And then choose transfer from iphone and it will start the data transfer immediately over the wire Much faster than wirelessly and and and It includes your apps Because it's doing it over the wire. So you won't be stuck with that. Okay. I've finished transferring all your data and settings Now you have to wait for the apps to download from the store. No, no They will transfer over that usbc to lightning connection. So that's what i'm gonna be doing I really would have been great if I had like gone downstairs and like ripped it apart and gotten that set up really quick Because I could have been done by the time the show was finished, but you know The sacrifices we make here p. Thank you porthos john for those instructions. Well, that's all for today folks Dave's gotta go do his phone now Is that band I hear Dave? Is that the band that's right?  There's two so when they're done opening theirs, then then they'll come and play for us That's when I think we've got work to do we have work to do and it's fun work I enjoy this so I'm not this is not a complaint. That's right. Yeah All right, um, we got some questions about migrating to new devices And so uh figure we'll we'll dig into uh, michael's you want to read michael's for us p I can do that. I can absolutely do that michael wrote in and said, uh, I've got Hi there, davin pilot p. I've got an iphone 15 pro coming this fray. It may already be there michael And uh, so he's just I've been doing the lightning to usb adapter for iphone migration for the last three phones I purchased Transferring everything over a wired connection for the first time since 2012 or 13. I'm considering it starts from scratch New iphone, but I'm concerned about the health and data and apple watch that I've got he says he's got a series seven data Do either of you know If when starting from scratch with an iphone once signed in with an iCloud id apple id the new iPhone will also see that there's a history of health data and the apple watch will know that a watch It was previously paired to the iCloud and apple id and offers the last backup from the watch And from my old iphone I do not really want to start over with that and you know an apple watch and I have all kinds of streaks going that I don't want to lose of course and data integration sure right. I mean that's the Streak is a streak a streak a streak man. Just because you got a new device. That's right. Yeah With a bunch of apps for my health that I recognize I'll need to sign in back in if I start over again with the new iphone 15 pro But I would want a historical data to back up on my iphone if that's at all possible The answer I have is Dave you're up Yes, the health data is now securely synced via iCloud So as long as you log into your same iCloud account Then you can your health data will sink back down to your phone and your watch and all of that stuff Yeah, I I I did this a couple of years ago when I clean installed I think it was my 12 mini or 13 mini I can't remember which one I did that with but the clean install was great and I have my health history all the way back Um, you know to whenever that was to whenever health started for me or The last the last time I wiped it, which was a long time ago. So did you have to take any positive steps to? Specifically with the health data or no, I mean Yeah, it was I believe it was automatic. I remember going into like settings iCloud and and just looking at what You know what iCloud features were on or off. I don't use iCloud mail on my phone So I turn off iCloud mail just to keep it to give it one less thing to sync So I that's sort of a normal part of my process to go in make sure iCloud keychain is enabled because there was a Point in in the time in the past where it wouldn't automatically enable iCloud keychain. So, um, yeah Okay, yeah, so because I don't know and I just truly wouldn't know that answer I'm obsessive about a lot of things But the health data or not the health data, but streaks. Yeah, I don't know Yeah, I I mean Yeah, listen if the streaks are what help motivate you then then that's great. Absolutely. You know, I think it's great. Yeah, so Uh, but yeah, yeah, you should be able to get that stuff. It shouldn't be a problem Yeah, and and again make sure it's there before you wipe your old phone, right? But but yes, it's it's all synced there To to iCloud. Yeah.  We show, um, so kens rates in Hi, mgg crew. I love the featured photos lock screen available in i o iphone os 17 But I have near 50 000 photos and I want to know how do you find the featured photo I don't see anything in photos to indicate recently featured on my lock screen photos Is anyone aware of anything that can help? Yeah, if you if you look on Um on apple.com in their knowledge base and I I created a uh, I put a link to this in the in the show notes This is all part of what apple refers to as Memories and featured photos, right and and it it says in fact on on apples On this knowledge-based article the photos app can show certain people places days and holidays less Frequently or not at all in your memories and featured photos and in the photos widget So you can turn off memories and featured photos entirely in the photos app and the widget of course on your home screen To show a person less frequently You go into photos or open a photo of the person that you want to show less often You tap the little three dots in a circle and there will be an option there to feature this person less Uh, and you can choose never feature this person if you also would like that You can also go to like certain people or pets and things like that and turn off those the same way uh Your holiday memories and your um The the entire section of it are actually not controlled in the photos app. Those are controlled in settings So to turn off holiday memories you go into settings photos and in there you will see a show holiday events Item you can swipe and turn that off And then if you want to turn off memories and featured photos entirely That's also in settings photos and you just turn off show featured content So it's all very clear when you know the answer But it's not entirely clear at all mackens if you're just looking at it because the instructions aren't in front of you it's one of those things where People didn't quite um Didn't quite get us there with the um with the onboarding process. So right the good news is is you put the link to that in the show notes How to do that so How do you want to find the show notes, Dave? Um, what you do is you just close your eyes and and and what you chant three times in a row Don't get caught don't get caught and you click your heels together And uh and and I think you have to actually click your apple watch to your iphone. That's what it is This is the uh thing Okay, and and then and then in theory all your devices will just show the mac key cab show notes If your devices are malfunctioning and that doesn't do it Then you can do it, uh the manual way by visiting mackey cab.com There you go and click on that show and the notes come up It's awesome and then you're good to go if if you really want to be like like we're talking nerdy today So, uh if you really want to be nerdy about it You can go to mgg.fm and if you just go there that brings you to mackey cab.com But if you go to mgg.fm slash the number of the episode So for this one it'd be mgg.fm slash 1001 just like the numbers 1001 Then it will bring you right to that episode's page. I magically set it up so that that works Be careful not to type those numbers backwards or you will get to Oh the show this episode. It's magic. It's magic. It works even if it's backwards But only for this episode and the one two weeks ago and and others in the past and some in the future Are you sorry you asked that question? I should have I agree No, no, it was great. I did not know where that answer was going by the way I I yeah, we've never done that shtick before and it's gonna stick For sure. Um, all right So bill has a question and you want to go? Yeah, it's good to bill. So bill wrote in Dave and Pete in early october. I'll be getting an iphone 15 pro braggart I know that this phone only has an e-sim here in the us in the past I've traded phones and never bothered doing anything with my old physical sim I've simply erased all the hense and settings on the old phone and traded and in should I remove the physical Physical sim in the iphone 12 pro i'll be trading in will it retain any personal data? Or my old phone number the world is a scarier place now that Then even three years ago when I bought my current phone. I didn't find it did definitive answer on the web and um Let me take a stab at it. I know you You want to go into general settings and and reset all settings Or erase all content and settings and then pull the sim And there's nothing left on that phone of you Right, but the question is is the sim going to tie back to him You're you're absolutely right that if you erase all contents and settings the phone is no longer tied to you Unless there's an activation lock, but it in in theory that process should do away with the activation lock bonus quick tip by the way and i'm Trying to find it here. It was port those john uh earlier and he really is the mvp Apple recently added that if the seller has forgotten They can log in to iCloud from a browser and just remove a device from their devices list That will remotely deactivate activation lock. So my guess is that saves a lot of uh support calls However back to that sim if you're going to move your current service from your physical sim to an e-sim On the same device or on a new device you Your service provider likely will not leave your old sim active because they don't want you using the same service on two devices Without paying them extra for that privilege So the presumption would be if they deactivate your service on the the physical sim Act reactivated on the e-sim then yes That physical sim is no longer going to work and once a physical sim has been deactivated As I understand it there is no way that it could ever be reactivated on any network again That you you know unique serial number the i me i whatever it is. I forget what the the the sim serial number It's unique identifier. Whatever that it's not i me i it's something else, but uh that Is now done like you can't use it anywhere. They've all decided that's how it is but Just to be safe Throw the sim away, you know in in a in a place that's not the same place that you sort of Hopefully you're not just disposing of the phone. Hope that you're selling it. You probably get something for it It's a you know an iphone 12. I think so I think you'd be all right. I if it were if it were me I'd probably upgrade to the e-sim on the old phone and then just let it transfer over I haven't I haven't spent any time really thinking about that So there might be some caveat that i'm that's not coming to mind immediately Hopefully someone in the discord, but I like that might be the right way to do that just to make it smoother I think I have to think about that. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be going I've got the 12 pro max and I'll be going to the 15 pro max So, you know, I'll be going from a physical sim to the e-sim. Yeah, and and so that's that's a fairly simple Simple process at least yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I plan to do what I had said, which is you know race all content settings Pull the old sim and And you're done. I don't know you could cut it in half with a pair of scissors That's true one half and one trash and throw one half Down the road. I like I like actually I like that a lot. Yeah that way. I mean there's then you're done Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean good luck doing something with my old e-sim or with my old physical sim Anyway, yeah, yeah, once it's deactivated on your on the on you know, once mint deactivates it for you You don't just toss it. Yeah. It's worthless. Yeah I say that and I have a stack of old sims down in my office. I don't know why I'm gonna throw them away today I'm gonna throw away today or tomorrow. I can't remember which Uh, we had some networking questions pile up over the last couple of weeks So I want to get to those before that though I want to take a minute and thank all of our premium listeners whose contributions have come in in the last week here As you know from listening to the show we Sort of make this happen in a variety of ways. There are different all kinds of different Ways that we get to support what are what we do in our efforts here in making the show Obviously our sponsors are a huge part of that and Simply visiting our sponsors went, you know, when we say like we did for you know for green chef Go to green chef comm slash six zero mg g just visiting that Whether or not you die you decide to buy it's our job to to Encourage you to go check them out from there It's up to them to to you know sell you on their on their product And hopefully it it's something that works for you and when it does that's that's a win But certainly visiting our sponsors is a great way to help the show listening to the show Sharing the show with other people is a huge way and then yes, we also have our premium program, which you can of course um learn more about and Engage with at mackey cab comm slash premium and it's also linked just at mackey cab comm One of the ways our premium program works is for those of you that can and wish to Uh just send us money directly that works and we are honored and humbled and and very appreciative of that The folks who have sent us Money in the last week through our premium program include 25 dollars from gram from gleeb 10 from warren from gloster 25 from daniel and wesbury 10 from brian in danbury Santiago in palm city and john in wake forest 25 each from mike in tempi and william in getsville 10 dollars each from kevin in edison paul in peabody I think it's peabody. Yeah, because because if it's in massachusetts, it's peabody if it's somewhere else. It's peabody yeah 10 from michael in robbins And uh also from matthew and forked river and then 25 each from kreg and costa mesa and andrew and hannolulu Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. It really truly means a lot to us and uh, like I said It's it's absolutely not mandatory. There are many other things you can do to help the show Simply by listening like I said that's that's that's you know step one sharing the show with other people Engaging sending in your feedback in your comments and all of that stuff. It all works together We have a great community speaking of the community. I know I've mentioned it a few times our discord.  Listen I've engaged i've engaged in flame wars too I don't mean to say that i'm somehow you know immune to this not even close But our discord community is just one of people wanting to help each other and people wanting to learn And I know that comes from what we do here on the show right like this is what the show is all about We don't yell at each other about things. We we try to help each other learn, you know And so it it absolutely it's great. It's great. So Thank you for all of that folks. All right. And now, uh, I do want to get to some of these network questions that we've had Sticking around for a little while you want to start with joe p I can that I had joe's letter right in front of me. So i'm gonna read it. Hello gentlemen Okay, he's got the wrong guy listen to this show very much joe, but okay. He says he's long He calls this gentleman anyway. All right. Well, I guess Well, thank you I'm a long time listener and I've learned so much from your show. Thank you so much and keep it work for the past few months My family and I have going over our internet data cap Cox 1280 gigabytes per month. I can see so one a little over a terabyte I can see our usage By category via the cox iphone app, but I'd like to get more detailed information on dave recommendation I am using a sonology rt 2600 ac with uh two euro pro six in the bridge mode I also have a thing box connected to my network Is there some built-in monitoring in any of these devices that i'm using that will give me more detailed information About our data usage and i'm gonna like this one too because I love my 2600 rt Yeah, I think it's so when the the ideal place to see Your to from which to get accurate Data usage by device is your router As long as your router is able to give you that information right and and not not all routers are built equally The software for each of them tracks things differently You're in luck with the sonology routers though because they all Track data usage by device you can turn this off. So you might have to turn it on But it will tell you when you go in the web interface for your router, which with the sonology routers is called SRM sonology router manager So you go to the web interface go to network center go to traffic control and then go to the monitor tab That there's some settings there where you can enable things or disable things But once they're enabled on the monitor tab It will show you current usage like real-time usage in the upper right though You can choose to see usage for the previous month and it will show you how much data You are using in total both separated for uploads and for downloads and then It breaks it out by device and you can drill down It shows you the top five of each upload and download Usage on you know the sort of the dashboard screen and you can click show all and dig even deeper And I did this just to you know, make sure I had the right instructions to to share on the show here And I am terrified of how much data I'm using Pete I had I downloaded 1.8 terabytes in the last 30 days. I uploaded 620 gigabytes in the last 30 days and um the I probably really shouldn't say this but I'm gonna say it anyway The device that is at the top of both of those lists, of course Is one of my Synology disk stations. It's sort of the main one that manages all that traffic. So there you go There you go. Yeah, but the fact is You're not the typical user you tend to upload Shows your your shows to you know, all these shows but this is all media consumption No, it really is it's it's either Media consumption that we are watching because the second thing on the download list Very close to the the disk station Actually is your living room is my living room, right? Which on the pie chart actually looks bigger than the disk station, which is kind of weird. I'm not sure how that works out That's funny. Yeah, but um, but you know the two of them together consume What about 60 60 5% of our our downstream bandwidth. So like watching Streaming media is a huge amount of that. So if they're using 60 percent Of our bandwidth, it means we're watching a lot of 4k content is what that means Right. I was going to say that's that's the joys of being a cable cutter Yeah, your usage is going to go through the roof. However with uh, fortunately with phidium There's there is no limit and you've got gigabit ethernet. So yeah, yeah So that's the way to do it now if you don't have a Synology router um, the thing box It's difficult to get that information out of it in a in a meaningful way I I need to dig back into eros app. I don't think it tracks it over time But I might be wrong about that pete. I like I run either the links or the other routers Do some some of the I know the netgears some of the netgears do Um, yeah, they I run eros here. I run Synology as my router and then eros are my Um, they're in bridge mode essentially as just the wi-fi access points because I like the Synology router It's super geeky, but I need to check with them. I'll check with my son this weekend to see if the eros do it Because he's you know, he manages his own network with the eros so we can mess with that. Yeah. Yeah, and and I often see You know what I can tell when I'm tired because my memory is the first thing to go and I search for words One of the words I'm searching for right now is if you do have the netgear the links this router What is that third party? Software that you can oh well. Yeah, I haven't we used it's dd wrt I haven't yeah, I haven't used dd wurt in a long time. Like is it even still under active development? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question I mean that because you could get really geeky with dd wurt on your links You're you know your consumer netgear and links this routers you could broad, you know broadcast your signal with a higher signal strength Yeah, I mean there's a new there's a new build of a new build of dd wurt um September 8th So yes, so yes, it's still very much a thing and absolutely that gave me all kinds of Reports and abilities and I have no idea What features they've added. I mean I got away from we were using dd wurt Before iro hit the market because I used dd wurt to sort of create my quasi mesh You know before we could we could just do it the other way. So yeah, man, it's been a long time I mean 10 years Huh, here's the thing. I don't know how old my 2600 router is but Synology 2600 router it's gotta be five or six years old and that thing is still cranking And I was gonna get the new one and I'm like, I don't I can't justify it the one I've got works too good Yeah, it looks like there's open vbn and wire guard are now built in it's i'm just reading from the changelog So these are just the things that they're that they're that they've like Made updates too recently. It's using zfs now about that that you could put a your open you create your own vpn with it That's yeah, that's why I that's why I use dd wurt. I mean it was it was synologies v It was synologies router os that finally brought me away from dd wurt was it was like, okay great somebody has made a You know a built for consumers Version of what dd wurt can do for all of us and yeah, they did a great job.  That's exactly right. Yeah, exactly Yeah, I gotta like I wonder where I would go to just learn what it would do for me I mean their website should do that, but their website was never really great at explaining that so anyway Um, yeah, so I'll put a link to dd wurt in there Get in and play with it and play have fun. Um, do you have let me ask this though I used to use it to crank up my signal because my router was in the basement. Yep Are you going to do any damage by cranking that signal up? Are you going to burn out the router? I don't know. I mean technically it would it would make it generate more heat I never burned out a router With it, but I can't I mean, but I've heard of people Burning out routers not with that but like there are things that you could do with dd wurt that would render it useless I Like I loved dd wurt. I moved to synologies srm because I just couldn't afford the Quarterly surprise it's 9 a.m. And you need to now spend four hours Flashing and you know rebuilding your router because some upgrade of dd wurt failed and your you know, your sol and your whole network doesn't work until You rebuild this whole thing and that would happen, you know once I I don't know Maybe four times a year three times a year But and it would take a few hours and I learned a lot and I'd talk about it on the show It was like it got to a point where it was like wait, there's an out. There's an alternative. I'll take it Yeah Anyway, but if you if you don't change it if you don't last thing Subject sorry, but if you don't change it you're going to be okay If you get it and you get it set up with dd wurt and you leave it alone Or was it was it you had automatic upgrade set?  It's got the new thing I gotta go do that obviously Sure enough. Yeah, that's so yes in theory You know lit fa leave it alone, and I'll let you fill in the rest of that acronym But um, but we're not gonna fix it till it is. That's right. That's right. Yeah Yeah all right Craig asks he says um I have uh, I'm I'm Getting a bunch of new stuff and I have uh one of my retirement passions. He says is collecting Older Apple gear and he's already got like a g3 iMac and a cube and a sunflower and the quick silver power So cool It says my goal is to equip them all with airport and or airport express cards Because of this it means I will end up with a mix of you know 802.11 g Maybe some 802.11 b devices and certainly 802.11 n devices I'm concerned about how best to integrate this stuff into my household Wi-Fi network The question is will my these old devices slow down my network because There was a time when that was true that A device that was say 802.11 b or 802.11 g would slow down The other devices on your wireless network Those days are mostly now over and let me explain The basis for that whole you know bg even n devices will slow down your network Was based on the concept of airtime fairness or lack thereof Wi-Fi only allowed And I say allowed but with these devices It's still true with with current standards of everything's unlike you know Wi-Fi 6 then multiple devices can talk But when you've got a bg or an n device um Wi-Fi only allows one client to talk with the router at any given time or with the access point at any given time And the access point plays traffic cop in that scenario right the the way it works it by default The way Wi-Fi works by default is that it allows each client to send a specific amount of data Before moving on to the next client so it says okay You can send you know 100k of data and then I'm going to pause you and I'm going to go listen to the next thing and You know go round robin or however. It's deciding to go around That all seems fine and good except when you have a scenario where you've got say an 802.11 b device And at 802.11 ac device both connected to the same access point because it takes the 802.11 b device Way longer to send 100k than it does the 802.11 ac And that would therefore cause in many scenarios it to Quote unquote slow down the other devices. It wasn't that it was slowing down your Your devices it was just that it wasn't letting them talk as much because Everybody was limited to a certain amount of data But that only would happen if your devices are transmitting or receiving lots of data if they're just sort of existing on the network Not so much of a problem. So with like iot devices not really a concern But with computers that are going to be web browsing and downloading software updates and all that stuff That could cause problems and that's why this concept that I mentioned called airtime fairness came into being about a decade ago And he had meant craig mentioned that he has an orbi. I believe orbi supports this Uh, I don't know if it's on by default in the orbi, but you can certainly turn on airtime fairness It's it's one of the options in the wi-fi settings for lots of current routers What airtime fairness does is it change the trap it changes the traffic cops rules aka the algorithm from a Data-based scenario to a time-based scenario. So instead of saying you get to send 100k It's you get to talk for 200 milliseconds And then i'm shutting you down regardless of how much data you were able to send Then it goes to the next person that says okay the clock starts now send as much or receive as much as you want And so by enabling airtime fairness life should be fairly manageable even with those older devices on your network I I would Advise and I this is what I do on my networks where I have control of it a lot of things just do this automatically now Most mesh systems are using airtime fairness But my advice is to enable airtime fairness Unless you have some very specific reason not to because it it just makes the network work better And I think it is the default for a lot of things. So hopefully that helps craig I think the cell networks are doing that too. I notice at the airport, you know, you don't you just don't get those huge speeds but everybody is Cramming data and they must be using some sort of fairness doctrine Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, there's all kinds of different ways and formulas for throttling, you know data being sent be it wireless or wired and Yeah, yeah, it's you can you can do it in a way where it really right because what you're talking about isn't even Just a time based algorithm. It is probably both.  So, yeah Yeah, yeah All right, uh, speaking the question on speaking of slow networks. Yeah Yeah, so I'm gonna have a little fun at scott's expense. Okay, we have a new definition of horrible here, dave Uh, oh, he says he writes in and says i'm having a huge problem with my euro six pro network I have gigabit ethernet on verizon fios and in the past euro has given me 930 plus megabits per second to my wired connections anywhere from 130 to 400 megabits On most connections. I noticed the other day that my speeds everywhere are about 94 megabits per second This is horrible.  Just send smoke signals first world problems. Yeah, right? Yeah, right Yeah, I think my masseuse is a little bit. So this is I I know there's more to read and I want to read more But this is interesting like the first thing that jumps out to me on this is okay We've slowed down to Almost exactly 10 percent right went from 930, which is the the gigabit ethernet maximum to 94 Which is the 100 megabit ethernet maximum So just keep that in your minds as we read along here. Let's let's see where we go Stumbled on something. I maybe but I think scott stumbled on to something too that you're about to find out Yes, this is a fine rebooted network the euro network. I get speeds for about an hour and then they drop from All right, pete you're we're getting the euro app is basically hang tight pete that your audio is cutting out too much I'm going to finish reading scott's thing here. Just to uh, so Your hotel wi-fi is is is out to get us, but it's done fairly well for the last hour. So i'm not going to complain Uh scott continues if I reboot the euro network I get the high speeds for about an hour and then they drop from gigabit to 100 megabit speeds The euro app is basically useless in resolving the issue I have replaced the cable from the wall to the router same problems I have switched two of the euro 6 pro routers so that a different one is the gateway smart.  He says same problem works for an hour then slows down I've put in a trouble ticket to euro And I haven't yet heard back from at least not by the time he sent us this email He says it appears to have occurred in late june because I looked in my euro app And it tracks an archive of speed tests that it does and since late june It has been in that 93 megabit per second range prior to that. It was 930 He says it would be interesting to know if anyone else in the community is having similar issues The real reason i'm writing is to get your current recommendations on mesh networks If you are not going to consider euro he says the euro system has been great for the most part But uh, given this I doubt it will be another euro setup. So um, I I love this, you know That we're we're trying to figure out and we we've sort of identified that it's slowing down the ethernet connection Okay, you've swapped out everything that we can think of you've swapped out the cable You've tried different eros so different ethernet ports, but the one thing we haven't swapped out is the verizon gateway And in honoring the troubleshooting process. That's where I would look next Because you you know, this is not an euro This is not a widespread euro problem, right? It may well be a problem with your very specific euro network But I truly don't think so I I really think that it's another device like if euro were having this issue it um It would it would not like like we would have heard about this, right? So I think I think that that your answer is going to be that verizon gateway at the very least Swap that out verizon should swap that out for you And and then find out, you know, so again whatever is on the other side of that ethernet connection And you said you were going from the euro To the wall And then from and from your gateway euro to the wall That tells me that maybe your your verizon device the ont maybe is on the outside of the house It depends on the fiber providers that some of them put it inside some of them put it outside But it could also be the cable in the wall, right from the ont on the outside to the jack on the inside But but you know and then another thing to test wait while we're here Unplug the euro from it plug your mac into the verizon gateway And just let your mac be the only device on the internet for an hour or two See if it slows down because that will help to tell you Okay, you know, is it is it this verizon gateway? But I would either way I would swap out the verizon gateway That would that would be my first test To answer the second question though um There really are when when it comes to mesh wi-fi There are really kind of two schools of of thought on it There is what I call the smart mesh and then there's what i'll call the I don't want to call it the dumb mesh. We'll call it the the normal mesh the the um well Let me explain So with a normal Mesh mesh system you have devices in your home You've got you know your access points and your router and you know gateway and all that stuff And you just set them up and they do their thing and they talk to each other and they figure it all out But that's it right they don't learn From anything that you don't show them right they they see your devices and they might not even learn from your devices Right, they might just be programmed the way they're programmed and and they will You know negotiate connections with an iphone the way they know to do that and with a samsung phone the way They know to do that because they're a little bit different especially when it comes to meshing things and so you know There's there's there's that with Eero and plume are the two that I call smart meshes They are cloud managed and connected to what we would now call an ai really. It's just a A machine learning database that takes You know anonymized data from all kinds of different sources and Decides looks at patterns and says okay when we treat, you know an iphone 14 pro this way It you know works 80 percent when we treat it this way it works 92 percent. So let's Push an update out to all our devices that tells it to do iphone 14 pros this way, right? So there's this constant evolution of the smarts of those routers But iro and plume to my knowledge are the only ones doing this. They're the only ones that are cloud managed For the consumer space So they're the only ones that really can do this If you're not going to get an iro or a plume You know, there's unify which is sort of on the nerdy end of it's either a professional one or a prosumer one from ubiquity I I like You know, I like the unify stuff. It's not for everyone But if you're nerdy it can definitely be for you. So that would be one place to go Beyond that, you know, sonology makes their own mesh system in addition to their You know, they're just their standalone routers In fact, their standalone routers just become part of a mesh when you add another one and it That can work. Well, I've had some weirdness with it here Lots of people have had great success with it I need to kind of dig back into that again at some point soon and see how it works but There's a sonology mess and then tp links deco line If you're especially if you're looking For a budget mesh system tp link It is worth more than you will pay for it It's it's you know, it's not a quote-unquote smart mesh, but it sure is a good one And you know, they're a huge company So they get to benefit, you know, they get to You know, have all there's cost savings because of the factories and everything and and they pass that along so You answered my question before I could ask it then. Oh, sorry. Well, you sound great again. You mentioned the tp link Yeah, I'd like the tp link. Yeah Yeah, um, yeah, that's what and that's another one. That's that system. I've been using Many many years now and I stopped for about a year. I forget why I pulled it off the network But uh, just put it back on the network several weeks ago because that's what I'm using up you know, I'm back to using the third floor office which is Three full floors away from my router. Yeah, which made my my wi-fi almost as good as hotel wi-fi at sometimes Yeah, and so but tp link fixed that quickly So great. Yeah, no the tp link stuff is it truly is great. It really really is don't Don't let the lower price when income the lower comparative price To the other ones discourage you it it like they make good stuff. I really yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so okay, novel and uh Scott wrote in uh, Facebook. He says remember to have him turn off any beta setting on the uh, error remember a few years ago we changed that and I went back to the 940 Oh, I beta beta settings in the euro you mean? Yeah, euro. That's what it's it's a good good old, uh Auto correct. Got him. Okay. Yeah turn off any beta settings on the euro. Yeah, okay And uh, that that may be a thought too. My my other question is, uh, you know, we we pointed out the difference between Gigabit and and megabit. Yeah, are there two chips in there or something? Is that what may be causing? There's two chips in there. Why why temper? Why is 10 percent significant? I thought I was thinking there are two two chip cents in there in in no, it's ethernet ports are built to auto negotiate so they sense The the idea is they sense what the Um, ethernet device on the other end of the connection can do and they negotiate the fastest speed that the two of them can can both You know use Gotcha, clearly his is negotiating a thousand And then something is happening that's causing that negotiation to drop to 100 I have seen it with a bad cable and and clearly he has too and that's why the that's the first thing he tried I had that here in the studio for a while. I had a bad cable And I would occasionally notice the iMac would be at 100 instead of a thousand. It's like, okay. Yep, but um But it would go to thousand for a while Uh-huh, it would negotiate to a thousand and then drop do 100 Wait say again That well that was it It was so it would actually start at a thousand and then drop instead of just only giving you a hundred the other thing is Is it does he have two bad cables? I mean it happens. You know, you're not likely but it's maybe with a third new cable Yeah, yeah fair, especially a different brand of cable if you had two from the same box or whatever, you know, whatever, but yeah cables Yeah, yeah, anything can it's you know, you don't get to see what you can't see Oh, it happens it happens. Yeah, yeah uh Shall we uh, we got a little time we can we can finish this networking round with bob and it's it's it's related here You want to you want to take us to bob? I can do that bob writes about wi-fi confusion. He says I have hi davin pete. I have a one gigabyte cable internet Tested via ethernet get getting 1.1 gigabit. Great. However, the very best wi-fi speed I can get using fast.com is 330 gigabits per second with all my other devices disconnected I know I won't get one gigabit via wi-fi But only getting less than one third of one gigabit seems excessive that has me wondering if there might be If might indicate an issue or is this normal? um yeah, so You know with this there's there's a couple factors to consider so Ethernet you're getting the right speeds that that's great and you're smart to test it that way because That there's there's no I mean other than having a bad cable like scott might or a bad port or something, you know, I've seen both Um, you know, at least now, you know where the problem is the problem is inside your house not outside your house So the smart great troubleshooting wi-fi The speeds that you're getting that three to four hundred megabit per second Uh, you know in in test scenarios, certainly wi-fi is going to go much faster than that in real world scenarios I that that's not a typical what you're seeing when when I got bob's email I dug in a little bit on my m2 MacBook air the 13 inch one which is wi-fi 6 capable connected to my wi-fi 6e euro unit that was maybe 15 feet away in the living room And that's ethernet connected to my gigabit fiber connection So, you know one wi-fi link between my router and the ether and the euro in the same room and nothing else And I got 450 down And 200 up sitting on the couch in my living room. I've seen faster. I've seen slower Um, like in a really controlled environment. I was I've been able to see over wi-fi 6e. I've been able to see 800 um Which is amazing, but I don't get that consistently. There's there's other interference even if your other devices are disconnected There are still things broadcasting in the air there's there's You know other things creating rf interference that aren't wi-fi devices We had a really interesting thing at the theater I told you i'm doing this theater show and there's a moment where the band's on stage the guitar player Uh, one of the guitar players comes across he's he's on stage right? He comes across to you know left of center sits down with one of the actors and they have a little scene together The actor's singing. He's playing his guitar all week in rehearsals as he his guitar was fine. He's using one of these x5 guitar um Wireless things right and so he comes across and he's you know line of sight. I can see his pedal board It's right there. He's maybe now 20 feet away and His guitar would cut out And it was like they were trying to figure it out They changed the blocking of the scene of the arrangement of the the people on the scene to put his guitar on You know the the right side of his body so that there was no human Big bag of ugly bag of water, you know between the the two right and and it didn't it didn't solve it And before rehearsal the other night I saw him walking around the theater with his guitar And he walked like backstage and around and of course I have him in my ears and I can hear his guitar I'm like he's testing this and he's not having any issues right now So like he was able to be under the seats behind concrete and his guitar worked totally fine And I started thinking because you know, it's how my brain goes and I'm like, all right What's different what is not on stage right now that is on stage Once the play is you know, once the musicals running and it was like wait a minute. They have these cool wireless lights that are magnetic They are battery powered They're they're remote controllable and they put them underneath my like put them on my drum rug My the the drums that I use in the theater that I happen to be using have clear drum heads And so they aim them so they shine up through the drum heads and it looks freaking awesome Especially to me because I get to see it and I'm like, but they don't put them out You know, they they pick them up at the end of the night and charge them and then they toss them out You know before we open the house or whatever and I'm like, wait a minute Those things aren't here and they're they're they're remote controllable Like they're all part of the lighting system with dmx and all the cool stuff And so I was like wait and I grabbed Sean our guitar player. I'm like you you're not having any troubles, right? And he's like no And so I'm like I went to zack and I said can we put out the lights? I think I have a theory And so we put out the lights and then Sean's like wait It's still not causing any trouble I'm like so much for that theory and then Sean said but I also changed my channel from channel one to channel two And I was like, okay. Well now we've you can't change more than one variable, man Like so we left the lights in place. We changed him back to channel one. Sure enough the cutouts came in And now, you know, so now he's on channel two and it's fine Hopefully The lights don't wind up changing their channel, right because that can happen Yeah, but you know there but that's the the point is there are other things Um and everybody was like wow you really like you know how to do this stuff I'm like it's kind of what I do when Dave doesn't bang drum, you know Like it's kind of my job Which leads me which leads me I'm gonna solve somebody else's problem here. All right, I guarantee it. Yep My garage door opener quit working Right consistently it worked but not consistently. Okay, and and and when I finally found a suggested answer online I'm well, that's like fecal matter from a bovine. There's no way that this is a problem And it was What was the answer led light in my garage door opener? And for some reason the led light is transmitting a signal that interferes With this with that frequency. Oh my god. I need to do something at the house pita. I gotta go I have a problem at my house. I guarantee that's what it is I told you I guaranteed I'd fix somebody's problem led lights Will hear With some radio signals. I don't know what frequency or any of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but my guess is if I put a different led Yeah, or even a different led. Yeah a different led or maybe with a different controller What do you call the you know the chlorophyll and boom the uh the garage door started working consistently again Oh Yeah, man never know in a million years. I'm like, why would a light bulb? affect Because we just don't think of that there's rf coming out of an led But wait, why why was the light on before the was it only when closing the door that you had a problem It was it was you know how you get the little eye that trips the light on yeah Yeah, the little electric eye or the motion sensor. Yeah, you break that and it comes on and and When the led light was on Okay, 85 percent of the time 85 not always but 85 of the time Not in debbie's car. Not in my car. Not in my son's car And it's like, okay All three of our remotes didn't go bad and like what is going on and then when somebody came up with I read it on some forum somewhere I went no, there's no way that that's a problem And now I believe it. I absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, that's that's um, That's where we're gonna end. That should have been tip of the week Yeah, I'm telling you that's great. Yeah, I'm now not convinced it's gonna solve my problem because I think this is happening regardless. I think it might just be the cement But it's I don't know it hasn't been You know what I need to do I just need because I like the issue in in the garage that lisa uses Is that there is a cement wall Essentially between the end of the drive aimed between the end of the driveway and where the where the opener is, you know Halfway into the garage. So I just need to take that little antenna wire Can I just extend it or does that screw up the the the frequency? response I'll have to look into it But there's got to be a way of like I want the antenna to be over here not right at the at the unit Try going to a fluorescent bulb or something first That would be your quickest test Well, I just unplugged the bulb but but it happens when she's coming home when the light's not on in there Yeah, okay, so that's why I'm thinking it's not the bulb Um, porthos john again mvp of the episode and and I I've seen a ton of things from you porthos john that he uh He said he had the same problem and he gave us a link to a bulb Called the universal series garage door opener led bulb that we will put In the show notes And they are built specific. They must either The controller must operate on a different frequency or it's somehow, you know insulated or whatever. So Amazing So great Blind squirrel dave. I know this is awesome. Look at that. That's I it's a real problem There's eight in stock at our local home depot in summersworth pete So you can't find that because you're on bad hotel wi-fi in liège Yes, I am liège bilgeum Normally we stay up in maastricht in the netherlands, but they're all full so we're in a new boutique hotel Literally the front desk is a full bar fully stock pub bar I'm when this is over. I'm hitting the sauce. That's right. Yeah. Yeah Well, they gotta they gotta compete with the netherlands there right across the border. So they're exactly right. So All right, thanks for hanging out with us folks. Thanks for bearing with the uh, the sporadic moments of pete's You know iffy wi-fi there it's uh, we make it through and and heck we like thank goodness You were here for a variety of reasons, especially that garage door opener thing. So thanks for that Thanks for listening folks. Thanks for Sharing the show with a friend That's that's the like if we can ask something for from you for this week Let that be it and uh, yeah, make sure to check out our sponsors mackeykev.com slash sponsors you can see all of the current stuff Plus green chef.com slash 60 mg g And pete if your connection can hold up for just three more words I'm really curious to hear what you might have learned on all of your travels I don't know. Maybe maybe not. Well, he's back. He's back. Simple. Don't get caught We made it Made Later All right, we're out gosh