Welcome to Montpelier City Forum. My name is Richard Scheer and this is yet another in the series of television shows that we're doing on Town Meeting Day. And we're doing candidates. We have one good show coming up on the school budget that will be an hour long. We have another good show coming up on the city budget that will be an hour long. And those will also cover the articles on the ballot such as bonding. But tonight we're going into District 3 and we have a candidate here, Craig McDermott. Craig? Hi. How long you lived in District 3? I've lived in District 3 almost my entire life. I've lived in Montpelier my entire life. Where in District 3 do you live? Off of Berlin Street, Wilson Street. What's it like on the hill? We love it. It's a great neighborhood. Lots of young people and never had a complaint. Craig, District 3 is different than the other two districts which are kind of snakey and gerrymandered. District 3 has a lot more cohesion to it. Could you give us your sense of what District 3 really is? I think District 3 is different because it's got a whole bunch of different pieces to the town. I refer to it as a town. But the city in itself, in District 3 you've got business downtown.  You've got a bunch of neighborhoods. And then you have River Street and going up into national life in that area, it's just got a whole bunch of different pieces to it. So it is a different district. It's a very large district. A large portion of the population lives in District 3. There's a lot of renters in District 3, a lot of single family homes. And so, yeah, the population of District 3 is spread out in all directions. It's much different than a lot of the other areas. There may be more one family or two family households or renters specifically. District 3 has a little piece of everything going on. District 3, we've talked a lot in these sessions about downtown Montpelier. District 3 has a different business section that in a sense is perhaps neglected. How would you help that business district that's to the east of Dunkin Donuts and to the east of the Granite Street Bridge? That's part of District 3. That's a great question. I mean, I'm a big believer in incentivizing new business development and offering opportunity for businesses that exist in District 3 and even in the rest of the city. New opportunities, fresh chances to get out and develop and expand. And whether that comes in from a tax incentive or some other type of incentive, I think there's things we can do as council members to facilitate that growth. Now, you're knocking in the doors like everyone is in your district. Sure. What are you hearing from District 3 people? I'm hearing a lot of people complaining about snow removal right now, I think, in the condition of the roads, which I think that's just a result of the weather. As a matter of fact, I put out a bunch of flyers with surveys on them and I posted some surveys on Front Porch Forum and I've had a lot of response to that. What are you hearing from the surveys? We're getting responses from people concerned about traffic congestion. They're concerned about pedestrians being able to navigate the city safely. Specifically on Berlin Street, we've had some feedback about pedestrians being able to cross the street, lack of signage and a number of responses in regards to snow removal. And I think it's the timing, like I said, of me putting out these surveys, you know what I mean? Right. A couple of the times I put the surveys out there was some pretty good storms, so people might have been feeling the effects of those storms, but for the most part, people seem pretty satisfied with what's going on around here. I mean, we have a great city, you know? You grew up in this town? Absolutely. Okay, and you went to the schools? Yep. What kept you here? It's a great place. I left for college, but Montpelier has a quality of all of its own, as we all know, and we love it. What is it? It's a small town. If you were describing this to somebody who said, Craig, I'm thinking of moving my family here. Why should I move to Montpelier? I would ask them, you know, do you like Norman Rockwell? That would be my first question because the city is, you can pick any location in the city and picture a Norman Rockwell oil painting or a drawing. It's just, it's picturesque around here. It's beautiful. And the way of life is a very pristine, naturally awesome way of life. And I think that people that live here and grew up here specifically know that. One other thing is that the summers are amazing. You know, it's just, it's great to be here in the summer. You know, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I think people are crazy when they move to Florida or, you know, wherever else. It's just, why would you leave this place? The social environment is wonderful. People care about their backyards. They care about their neighbors. They care about their neighbors' kids. You know, I mean, it's just, it's a great community. And that's what makes Montpelier a great place to come. Now that we have the idyllic, let's move to the less than idyllic. Sure. And that's one of the systems that you see that you would like to see addressed and that's, that form the basis of your candidacy. Yeah. Yeah. So I think one big challenge we have as a city is affordability. How do you define affordability on the local level? Affordability is, you know, at Brass Tax, it's what it costs to live here, right? It costs to be a member of the community. How much is it going to take out of your wallet every week to operate and function within the town? And it's becoming more challenging for more people. I just had a lady who I didn't even tell. I was running for city council. She just came out and we were talking on the playground. I have a seven-year-old that goes to Union School.  And to me, you know, what we were just talking about are the qualities. Those qualities come right now at an expense. And it's a very expensive place to live. Property taxes are expensive. And right now with inflation and all the national issues we're dealing with, it just compounds into this very challenging situation for people to navigate on a daily basis around here. What levers does council have on that? You know, I think we can facilitate growth and make it a little bit more enticing for developers to come here. And I know some of this stuff is already in the works, you know. But we can make it more enticing for developers to come here and build high-density living areas. Were you following the master plan discussion? I was. It's hard not to because you've gone on and on. It's right here. It's gone on and on. It's right here in front of us. And I mean, if you're from here, you should pay attention to it. What was that discussion like from your perspective? Did it end up at a place that you felt comfortable with? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm comfortable with the way that Montpelier is operating right now. I like the direction we're headed. I think it's a great place. And I just think we need to do more to facilitate opportunities for people to come here and live and be able to afford to do so, you know. This can't just be a town for lawyers, doctors, and lobbyists. And the other challenge there is that we need to be able to provide middle-class jobs and an expansive job market, right, inside the city, inside the town that we are. The city councilors sit on commissions. They sit on boards. They also sit on agencies that are funded by the city. There's a councilor on the Kellogg Hubbard Library. There's a councilor on the Public Safety Commission. There's a councilor on Montpelier Alive. Sure. There's a councilor on the Economic Development Corporation. If you were on the Economic Development Corporation, what would you see? How would you see us economically developing in order to pick up a few more people in town in order to raise all boats and that sort of thing? Is there a direction that you have in mind for Montpelier 10 years from now or 15 if we were doing it right? I think there is. I think some of these parking lots that we have, and this is kind of along the Montpelier Alive purview and the net zero. Some of these goals are shared, as you know, by some of these groups and these initiatives that are already happening and rolling. I think we are headed in the right direction, so we can do a better job at facilitating some of those opportunities and maybe that comes from communicating and asking for more support from our state representatives, getting them more involved and trying to get it going on their level and communicating what we need from them to make it easier for our growth. What I was going to tell you is that some of these areas right now are just one level parking lots. To me, that's just a waste of space. We can put those cars just about anywhere, including in the development or below the development or above the development of those high density housing buildings which would offer ample space for some business as well. Those businesses would offer economic growth and opportunities for middle class families to come here, to live here affordably and hopefully stay here and add to the population. One of the things that the Economic Development Corporation has done is the distillery, the proposed distillery over on Berry Street and there's infrastructure going out to that, there's water, sewers and the like and that's a hop-a-skip and a jump from Sabin's pasture. What's your view on what's ultimately going to happen in Sabin's pasture? That's been a decade plus in discussion. Yeah, it's been a long battle and I understand both sides of it. To say that I have a future view for Sabin's pasture or a plan, I don't, I'll be honest with you. I think it's going to be hard for a developer to come in and work with that land. It's challenging land, right? But I don't think that it should just sit around and just be there. I understand people want to use it, right? But there are opportunities. We could have some green companies come in, some companies that are sustainably and responsibly based and they could do some really good things to that area. Not the entire area, but there's some area over in Sabin's pasture that could be used.  The city budget, are there areas in the city budget where you could see adjustments that could be made, either investments that you think would help the city or areas where you think we could achieve greater efficiencies? I'm pretty comfortable with the city budget the way it is. I'm usually a supporter of the bonds. I have kids in school and I tend to be a supporter of the city budget. I think they do a good job in getting things done and allocating funds where they should be allocated. And I think that the city does a fairly good job of spending those funds. I think there are places we could find savings, I'm sure, as many municipalities are being forced to do with our current governor administration cutting back some of the school funding, it becomes harder and people are forced to make cuts or find savings on certain levels. But, you know, I think we do a pretty good job. We do a pretty good job. As we see the cuts, we're downstream from those cuts. They'll start in the federal level, they'll head down to the state level. Trickle down to us. Right, and then those cuts will trickle down to us. Do you see the city budget being expanded to take up those cuts? I don't. I tend to be dubbish on tax hikes and tax raises for the middle class and even the upperclass. I mean anybody really, tax hikes in my book are a negative thing. I do support the school bond this year, not just because I have a child, but because our last school bond is in the Delta period. It's retiring. What is your Delta period? It's retiring. So 20 years ago we took out a bond as a municipality and we've paid that bond off, so it's retired. And now we're, as a municipality, in need of some infrastructure changes around the city. And I'm in support of that bond for that reason. It's an important issue, I think. And taxes are an important issue, and you're right. The chain of command or the way that things really work right now, whether we like it or not, are that the cuts come from the top and they end up at the small, at the little guy. The typical story, as unfortunate as that is, we'll see what we're faced with as a municipality later on. I can't tell the future. I don't know what our challenges are going to be. So I don't want to say that the municipality may not ask for more money, because they may. But I'm committed to representing my constituents. And if they tell me that they're not into paying more taxes, that's probably the line I'll tell. What's the thought on, you're up the hill closer to the water treatment plant that I am down in the district to? What's the feeling on the methane project that would pick up the equipment to generate power? Exactly. It's a capital investment. Right, and I think it's a good one. I think opportunities like those are good for our city, our municipality, and our state, national ideology. I think it's a good project to look into. I don't know all the answers, and I don't know exactly how those things work, but I think alternative energy is a wonderful thing. I think it's a net positive for us as a community to get into them. You're pun intended. Right, exactly. Yeah, right. I think it's a really good thing for us to look into. Anything that is going to save us money is going to be healthier for us and greener for us is a wise decision. Everybody, all of these shows that I do have one commonality, and everybody's complaining about the infrastructure, and you had spoken before about people talking about the streets. Can we do more? How do you view our infrastructure issues?  Definitely we don't do that. Throwing up our hands is not the answer, but I think we're going to have to start if the cuts continue to come down from the federal level and they continue to put pressure on the state, and the state continues to put pressure on the municipalities as has been the direction of this administration and even at a state level, the administration. We're faced with the challenge of looking elsewhere and trying to think outside the box. It's going to be challenging as we advance, but I'm confident we can do it. The city council in March, once they're elected at the next meeting, they go on a retreat and Bill goes with them and Bill has his white board and they've put their objectives and their goals, and each councilor has the chance to put his or her goal and his or her mark on that board as to what they want to do. What would your one or two suggestions be that go on that board? What are your priorities? I think my first priority would be to make sure that the school infrastructure around the schools are okay and sound. Right now we have a huge challenge within our schools. But those are separate budgets and those are separate oversight. They are, they are, but just as a community member and a citizen, that would be on the list whether or not, you know what I mean, it would just be there. So you're talking about links, natural links between the city and the schools, such as recreation and things like that? All kinds, yeah. And you tend to see, there's more links between schools now than there was 30 years ago. And there's a lot of municipalities that are using school facilities like gymnasiums and stuff like that to bring in all kinds of business, and generate all kinds of traffic to the city. I think there's an opportunity for that. But to answer your question, I think a big goal of mine would be to fix infrastructure, I think, and to bring down affordability for people into attract middle-class families to the population of our town, our city. How do we deal with the social issue of, let's use opioids or mental health or any of those larger meta-issues that affect our city? How can we best handle that? Is there a better way of dealing with it than the way it's dealt with now? Or would you continue the current thing a little bit more? I think generally we're doing the best we can. These issues come down to a very finite difference, I think, in a lot of cases. There are differences between families and people and individuals. And I think we're doing a good job as a municipality at addressing a lot of these issues. They are very challenging. They're extremely costly in many cases and they're very stressful to the services that we have as a city. So we're doing a good job. I think our approach right now is a good one. I don't necessarily know that I would have any suggestions to change that at this point. I would have to confer with those and do that job on a regular basis and get a better feel for it. Farmer's market is moving up to State Street. For years it's been in that little nook next to Julio's. What's your thought on that? What's your thought on downtown development in the core downtown? The development in the core is a good thing. I think it's a great thing. And events like the farmer's market coming to State Street is a good thing. There's a lot more traffic into the core. And I think it gets people ready for a larger change that is eventually inevitable probably. What is that larger change that's eventually inevitable in our town? You've been in this town for your entire life minus college. I think that congestion and traffic has gotten to the point where we need to try to figure out alternatives around the downtown core. And whether that's closing off State Street or a portion of State Street or redirecting traffic and finding alternatives, at some point we're going to have to make some pretty big changes as a city to facilitate growth. Otherwise, our taxes are going to... How do we facilitate growth? I mean, you're looking at a line that from when you were young and Union Elementary has gone like this. In fact, you could even say you have kids in Union Elementary now. How many people were Union when you were? My grandmother went to Union. And I bet it was a lot more crowded when your grandmother went. How do we get more people into this town? In theory, we've got the housing stock. You've got elderly people who could be moving out and opening up houses for families. Sure, yeah. How do we entice those families? I think going back to incentives incentives for small business, incentives for businesses that can entice the wage opportunities. There needs to be opportunity here in the city in order for middle-class families to come here or families to come here in general. Boy, that almost sounds circular. You need families to come here to get the downtown moving. You need the downtown moving to get families. And they totally are interdependent. They depend on one another. So it's one of those things. And it's a challenge that we're working on. I think that the council has done a good job thus far. And a number of other people around the community are working very hard on this issue. But we have more work to do. And we could make it more business-friendly. I truly believe that without impacting the environment. How can we do that besides incentivizing? Is there anything else that you would do to help the business environment? Sure. I think that we could do a better job getting the city's name out. Advertising and marketing the city for what it is. A great, beautiful place to live. A wonderful place for businesses. A place with a lot of money. There's a lot of money here. And that's enticing to businesses. We don't necessarily need to have just tax incentives or tax breaks for businesses. We could be bringing businesses here just on the premise that our crime rate is next to nothing here. We have an extremely low crime rate on a national basis. That's one of those qualities. We have lots of opportunities here. We just need to do a better job talking about them out there and generating conversation about that, I think.  There's a lot of them that have lived here for a long time. Sure. You're children at Union. How is it different for them walking on Main Street and State Street than it was for you? Just what do they face? What kind of Montpelier are they facing that's different than when you went to Union? I would say that the city overall, the historic look of the city has not changed much. The social environment has changed greatly. I think that we've progressed a long way. And progressed in what ways? Positive growth. Positive. Good. Community connected. Just really... Are we an oasis in social discord around the country where communities have disintegrated in a sense? The sense of community? I think we are. I think for the most part Montpelier is still a community whereas other places are not. The quality of the city that makes us a wonderful place to live. We still have a sense of community. We still know each other. We can walk down the street and say hi to each other and know each other from a couple of days ago. Now, there might be a sense of, because we're so small and we have 7,000 people, roughly, that might be one of the reasons. But the other reason is that we care about each other. We go to each other's birthday parties. We go to each other's events. We're very good at networking and we stay connected. I think that's one of the things that they see that we may have even gotten better at than when I was younger. And that may have changed for the better. As far as the appearance of the city, it hasn't changed much. That's one of the reasons why I want to run is to see positive change in the city in some of these areas I saw knocked down when I was my son's age. They're still parking lots. They're still filled with 40 to 100 cars. And it's just a waste of space. It's a concrete desert. Why not throw up a building and offer business space there and affordable living space? Now, for someone who's lived here for this many years, I get the opportunity to ask a question. Sure. Which city council person, past or present, would you model your style after? You've seen so many city council people over the years. Is there one that sticks out in your mind as having a style that you felt really worked? I think personally, because of my age and when I started paying attention to city council, I think my favorite city council member is Justin. Justin Turca. Yes. Why Justin? Just because he's very active. He was on the... I'm forgetting the name of the... the board that he served on with corrections. Community Justice? Yes, Community Justice. There you go. Thank you very much. He was on the Community Justice Board and did a lot of work there. And has just been very vocal at times and a positive influence on the city. I think he's done a really good job. As well as a district review person. That's right. And he worked... I have a grandmother that lives at the senior center and above the senior center. And he's had a very positive influence on her life, too. She talks about him all the time. He's just a very open and outgoing city council member and I appreciate him for that. And he's been a role model. Craig, thank you for coming in. I so appreciate this. Now I want to talk to you. And I want to say that you've watched this show. I hope that you'll watch the other candidate shows. We've done all of the candidates at this point. I hope you'll watch the one hour one on the school budget. That's good. And the one hour one on the city budget and the bonding issues is important. But what's most important is that you take this and get out and vote on Town Meeting Day and get your friends out to vote. Get your family out to vote. We've been talking about what a great community it is. But it's a community because you're out there doing things as a community, participating in planning, the commissions, the boards. But most important, getting out there and meeting the candidates, understanding what the issues are and then actually fulfilling your obligation in getting out and vote. Thank you so very much for watching this.


If you consider yourself a fan of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, then I'm sure you've caught a glimpse of Mary Cosby's massive Utah home. While this place is impressive, it's apparently only one of her properties across the U.S., and the reality star owns homes in Las Vegas, New York, and more. And today, we're going to take a look at where Mary calls home. We even found the listings. In these videos, we don't reveal any addresses, even though I've done a house tour of my own place. Please do not show up at any private residences because it's not safe for anyone. Mary Cosby is a main cast member on the Bravo reality series, the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which premiered in 2020, and it's already said that she's one of the richest on the series with a net worth of over $5 million. Considering all her properties and all the stuff that she owns, I would say the number is even higher than that.  It's a well-known fact that she inherited her family's empire of churches, restaurants, and more, even all five of her homes which are scattered across the U.S. Hey guys, it's Carer the Vampire Slayer back with another exclusive house tour here in Famous Entertainment, this one looking at the homes of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star Mary Cosby. Be sure to subscribe and ring that bell for notifications because we post brand new videos daily. As always, you can follow me over on Instagram if you want to chat, and now let's get into this video. It's no doubt that Mary is a Housewives star with an interesting story. In an episode of the Bravo series, she explained how she came to acquire her handful of stunning properties, saying, When my grandmother left, she left me her empire, homes, churches, daycares, a mortgage company, restaurants, including her husband. So Robert Sr. does love checking on all of the homes that we own. Yes, you heard that correctly. The only catch for Mary taking over her family business and inheriting her family's empire was that she married her late grandmother's second husband, Robert Cosby Sr. The pair has been married for 20 years and they share a son. Of course, this was Mary's step-grandfather end of no-relation. She further explained that it was an arranged marriage. My grandmother told me for herself that she wanted me to take her place. Basically, Robert Sr. was 20 years younger than my grandmother. My grandmother felt like she robbed his youth.  Alright, maybe that's not too strange after all, or maybe it is. What do you guys think? Mary went on to name five total properties that she and Robert own, including her main mansion in Salt Lake City and homes in Florida, Las Vegas, New York City and Carmel Indiana. She also stated they never rent the homes out either and when the couple isn't there, the homes basically sit empty. Apparently, Mary doesn't like to share. Just in September this year, Mary revealed that her main residence in Utah was getting a massive makeover and in an episode of Real Housewives, she was telling her contractor the entire home needed to be upgraded. This is the property where Mary spends most of her time and she lived here with her family for almost two decades, she said. We moved in when my son Robert was two days old, I just wrapped him up and moved him into the house. That's a long time, my son's 18 now. According to records of the home, Mary's mansion is located in Salt Lake City of course and built in 1994. Last changed hands in 2002 and apparently would be worth nearly $3 million these days. Inside the home spans 11,797 square feet of space with six bedrooms, 7.5 baths, while outside the lot covers over two acres. Of course if you watch Real Housewives then you've seen a lot of Mary's Salt Lake mansion on the show and she also gives us glimpses inside thanks to social media. Mary loves her couture so she doesn't miss an opportunity to show off her outfits to her followers. Here we can see an area of her home with some stairs, sparkling light fixtures and gleaming white marble floors to match the walls. It seems that she's decked out the common room with a lot of elegant furniture but her mansion also looks lived in and we can tell that Mary loves to shop. There's a grand foyer which progresses into the living areas and this entry hall boasts more white marble, a chandelier and soaring ceilings. It seems the furnishings used to have more accents of gold which we can see in older posts but I much prefer the way it looks recently. The gold was a bit much in my opinion. There's also a great room with loft-like second level overlooking the space and here there are also large windows and French doors as well as a fireplace on one end. Through a Housewives star showed fans how she decorated for Christmas just last year. We can see that like the rest of the main level Mary's kitchen also has double height ceilings and a ton of open space. There's stainless steel appliances as well as two islands with marble countertops and a dining-nug. As for Mary's bedroom she has gold furniture including her massive headboard and nightstands so we can tell this space is super opulent. Mary spent six months in 2020 at this sprawling mansion without her husband Robert Sr. because he was stuck in Florida and apparently too afraid to fly home. Well at least they have a property there too. With a lot of time on her hands she was able to consider a redesign. She explained, I spent the entire pandemic looking at my house and being trapped in it. It was like a marriage. Everything's stale. So I guess we're gonna have to wait and see the final results of her Salt Lake City homes new look. Another spot that Mary owns the property is Henderson, Nevada. Henderson is a city close to Las Vegas and features suburbs along with restored vintage homes and Lake Meade to the east while the area is set in a rocky landscape with plenty of valleys and trails. Mary's home here sits on nearly half an acre and is worth at least a few million these days. Some websites even valuing the property at $5 million. Inside the desert oasis boasts 7,703 square feet of space with five beds and 5.5 bathrooms throughout. I feel like this mansion has a vagus aesthetic on the exterior and walking in there are detailed glass front doors and a spacious entryway. Other bonuses include glamorous chandeliers and patterned tumbled marble floors and nearby you'll find the great room. Here there are floor to ceiling windows as well as a statement fireplace on one side with a winding iron railed staircase leading upstairs. Mary's Vegas property has a formal dining room with butler's pantry and a large gourmet kitchen that while it looks slightly outdated boasts a lot of potential. There are also chandeliers here and double islands one with snack bar style seed eggs. The airy family room offers disappearing sliding doors to the yard opening the space right up and there's also a full bar here too. Elsewhere the custom designed mansion boasts a home office, elevator and wine room with stunning arch ceilings and many of the main hallways. Mary's master retreat is equally nice in fact there are double owner suites at this abode so one for her and one for Robert senior. Finally the grounds will make you feel like you're always on vacation with the resort like pool and spa surrounded by palms and multiple outdoor living areas and patios to entertain. Not to mention the property boasts both city and mountain views. So as I mentioned aside from these two stunning homes Mary maintains properties in New York, Florida and Indiana as well. Clearly Mary Cosby is living her best life. Anyways that wraps it up for this house tour. So what did you guys think? Which of the Salt Lake City housewives homes did you prefer? Her main residence or her vacation escape in Las Vegas? I feel like Salt Lake City and Vegas are two of my dream places to live so I honestly can't choose. But I think if I was lucky enough to own either of those mansions I might redecorate and turn down that opulence just a little bit. Be sure to let me know your thoughts on Mary's homes down below. Thanks for tuning in. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram to chat and I'll see you all next time. Bye.


Gold contract down $17.40 cents at $2,019 an ounce. We had Silver down to $1.30, $24.35 an ounce, LightSuite crew down to $1.11, $71.45 a barrel, notes and bonds. A 10-year note, up 6 ticks, trading $116.03, the 30-year, up 31 ticks, almost a full point, which is $32 at $131.22, and $Kingdala, $Kingdala on the move, top side, where'd you go, man? I know it's up 500, there we go. Up 592 ticks, $102.069, the Euro at $109, the Yen at $134, and the British Pound at $125 to $1 U.S. dollar. Now you have huge divergence out here today. As you can see, this dollar came off the highs, off its lows, folks, and, you know, market kind of flat market outside of the Dow, you know, but let's go take a look at the spy first. You know, we had a wide price spread in here from highs to lows, no doubt about that, but there's divergence. Now the spy, well, it was down 72 cents, that's a flat market, really, compared to what we've been trading though, you had a huge contraction of volume though, 62 million shares versus 96 million yesterday. We go to the three Qs, which took out its highs yesterday with volume, bottom line, you went and closed at a higher high. So that's saying it wants a higher price. This 326, 334 is the next high. So that's saying that, hey, man, that's where it wants to go. You can see this right up here, that's where that thing wants to go. Let me put it this way. There you go. You can see you've moved out and, you know, this is a large one, two, three, four, we've been in this four, five, six, that was eight weeks that we were going sideways. So we'll see what we get tomorrow. Let me see this, 259 versus, yeah. So this is the kicker here and I'll watch this, folks. It depends what we get in volume tomorrow because right now you're going to need, I believe, a hundred million. We have, we're going to need a hundred million shares tomorrow to have taken this whole consolidation out with volume. That's going to be the kicker. That's what you want to watch, particularly because the last swing high up here that we had, it should do it, two, no, 271, it won't do it. Unreal. A lot of dynamics out here, man. Have a great night. A safe night, folks. Come back and visit Tommy tomorrow. I'm on it. Kicks us off night.


Broly? Oh, how's it going everybody? DatoDoy here back with some more Dragon Ball Fighters matches And today we're playing Android 17 along with Goku and Yamcha. You know the drill with this team It's all about trying to get him in the corner and just letting 17 go to work. Don't overhead me, bro Oh, he tried it. He really did I'm playing really passive Hey, what could I say? Vegeta is scary. Get off of me. Haha.  We're off of them. That's it that we're in the corner. I Don't have my power charged up. Oh Swinging a miss on that one. Oh, we dropped it, but he didn't attack. I probably should have let it rock anyway. Oh That's a Broly right no wait, I must have miscalculated Nice. Is that it? That's definitely a knockout dude 17 is so fun I was about to say we're switching sides, but does it really matter? We're all we're all coming in for the incoming anyway. We got we both got a power up and slide back in Successful first couple of seconds there Overhead first one. I didn't block and he just kept it fresh that one Yeah, Variety is the spice of life and it definitely did spice up my blocking in the sense that I'm choking Never mind. We get sliding. I'll take it every day All right. I'm gonna hit him with it. I'm gonna hit him with it overhead. Yamsha. No, he guard cancels You've got to watch out with 17 on the prowl, baby. I Don't know why I spent the bar. I tried to super dash Okay, that was a little cheap. Even I must admit that that super dash dodging that low. That was a little cheap yeah Still had that power saved up So I'm just gonna go ahead and spend it we'll get 17 back in at a later date right away Of course, we got it. We got to get the boy back in. This is 17 show dude. He's he's so fun.  I Don't know why YouTube more youtubers should play fighters, dude It's so easy to have the 10-minute mark with Vigito and if I lose that would be Hilarious, but also it would definitely come up in therapy later.  All right. All right All right, maybe I spoke to Can he kill here? Oh wait, I forgot new down heavy new me. Oh he dropped it if you charge at me All right, I think we can kill here. He's healing too much, dude. Oh So close anyway, he tried he let it rip. I was like, okay He's either gonna super dash or hold the vanish and if he holds the vanish as long as he presses a button We should be good. Oh We oh my god All right, it's 17 puts on another clinic like that. We're good Okay, that's gonna give us at least sliding time for Yamcha to come back as well So that's pretty much all good in my book.  Oh Cross-ups got him Well We had our shot and we really missed it But that doesn't mean we're done yet 17 will take a lot of damage here And we're back in the corner down tech I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. Ah Vegeta, I don't know why guard cancel against Vegeta's first light. It's a It's I always feel like I should have enough time, but I never do so I should stop doing that Let's try to make that adjustment. Let's make that the go. I'm a reflect one out overheads overheads overheads Try that one try that out again one more time and I swear I will down heavy it Well, you know on a very technical level Vegeta's legs Very technical level. I hit the down heavy. I always stay true to my word Come on money-making Mitch. Where's the money in this dude? This industry is tearing us apart. Let's go. Oh This is a hard knockdown that I have baby. He's gonna guard cancel or spark. Should I read the sparking? How did I cancel that? Oh, I didn't know you could just straight up cancel it. I Was weird I've never done that before Sick You're not supposed to get He wasn't supposed to get hit by that one Don't oh drop it, please. Oh 17 Yikes That was one of those things that I threw out there just to you know, if you blocked it Which that like he was supposed to block it so that I could you know mix it up on him But the only one who got mixed up there was me. Did you just try to level one? What what were my eyes deceiving me?  We want to put on the pressure, but yeah, we don't want to get reflected I feel like I've gotten down heavy by broadly six times this one game Which means I'm getting a little too predictable Switch don't get reflected. He wasn't in the mood for reflecting He was in the mood for buttons. Oh Nice. Oh Larry it He keeps trying that dude. Oh, and it kills nice We have to stop doing that now because I feel like After three times. It's a little too obvious Why he tested me good stuff No, wait. Oh, he didn't do it. I thought for sure he would see it the tag coming We are low on health. I just now realized. Oh, you maybe you couldn't kill. Oh I should have reflected My bee. Oh god. No. Oh Heal it heal it heal it heal it keep healing. I know what Super Saiyan 3 but take it Oh, I didn't stand a chance in the world. Oh That I committed to the overhead 11 that's not No, I was gonna say fun, but that sounded so corny. I Did not mean it to be Okay, we'll take sliding You just sit in the corner and think about what you did right there. All right look for the guard cancel boys or this change Just keep it raw Yeah, you can only change you can only armor through so much Broly now. Let's go. Can I put on a little bit of pressure here?  Why not 17 let your Just let it all happen, baby. That's the reflect. I'm supposed to be a bait. Oh You really tried it All right, we're just playing like 17 standard like there's no Anything 17s doing right now any other character could do I really want them in the corner So we're gonna let the sliding do the work that's the reflect Not in the mood for reflecting I see I Don't think he wanted me to get hit by that. Oh One key blast just a single tap My down tech here. Oh, he just did it if I would have slid that would have definitely connected.  I Should have slid but I was gonna test them with a few more lights Okay, boom. Okay, Berly's dead. Oh dragon rush. Yeah, dude I haven't been doing any dragon rushes this whole time So we are just free to kind of have some fun. Do you think we'll spark right away? Nah, no way. No way. There's no point in rating it, dude. Why read that when you could read?  Oh optimize? I might have dropped it, but who cares really? Where are you back dashing? That's what I want to know who said you could back dash. Oh Okay, you did that's fine. Yeah, you to boss Does he have the EX no Level three But why? I'm holding sparking. No way. I'm using it. Hmm. I don't even know why I panicked. I Do want to keep my my sweet sweet Yamcha sis JK. We got it. Oh I panicked I might have panicked a little bit. Come on. Who wouldn't have panicked in those shoes anybody else but me Probably I'll take it rematch to one You can't leave now my heart would be broken So how are you guys doing at home? Dragonball fighters, you know Goku's coming out very soon Looking forward to that. We're almost at 60,000 subscribers So thank you to so much to the people that have been subscribing supporting me along the way My heart's about a break in three two One If you guys didn't see this comment, dude, come on me ending on a heartbreak disconnect. Nah, what the hell? I just wanted your assist Yeah, okay I might not have played against the Jiren for a little while, but I still know a command grab when I see one I 17 get back out here do some work Hey work accomplished You know, they say all work in no play. Oh, no Wow, he stopped my EX up go behind Yeah, I don't have any I don't know what it's actually called she ran Gotty back to doing what we're good. I got I really got to play Jiren again. It's been so long. Oh Don't even try it. I have no idea what button you pressed. In fact, I kind of don't even want to know Got him. Oh And we get 17 back out. That's the perfect scenario So Jiren no problem rolly. What just Just do it. All right, I didn't know we were doing that Jesus why what is with Broly players and hating my happiness? Don't kill. Oh Wow, that would hurt to watch What he snapped bro? This man snapped Go ahead instant transmission.  I'm not done with you. I was done with you that though. That's that was the trick Don't level three. Okay good He might win. This is winner take all by the way Look at this damage No, no, no, no, no wait drop it drop. Oh ha ha Broly players and their drops boys. Can I get a hallelujah?  I I mean, I know I'm clicking to him really Yeah, oh, let's keep it optimized We dropped it, but it hit so put that one in the hall of best combos ever Look at Broly's keep why did make Broly his owner? That's wild Only arxist to think of that one not ex gale claws. I wonder if that's safe I'm is there anybody that can punish that None of my characters obviously Okay, you know what let's keep it Let's keep our work grounded here That was a mess of a combo, but we sealed the deal, baby. We just seal it up. What why do anything else but that? whoo That oh that was a fun one All right Well, hopefully you guys enjoyed this one if you did make sure to go down below in the comments Let me know if you have a favorite moment I'll be down in the comments as usual while you're down there If you like the channel you want to support it help us hit 60k make sure to hit the like button and subscribe Other than that, there's a few videos up on your screen that I recommend watching. I made them So there's a little bias there But if any of catcher I feel free to check those out as well. Thank you again so much for watching this video I'm dr. Doia and I'll see you in the next one


Maybe this one will make you smell the display, or maybe you'll see a speed. Here's this one. Do you want me to smell it? No, maybe you'll smell it. Do you want me to smell it? No, maybe you'll smell it. Do you want me to smell it? No. My German isn't that good. Do you want me to smell it? No, if I smell it, I feel it. So, you can have a look at this screen. Maybe it works. Is it ever in the NVIDIA, or is it over there? You know, after pressing the right button on the desktop, you have NVIDIA on the display. Maybe there are some options. So, this one is German. And now I have another one. What is it? This one is the same. What is it? What is it called again? General graphics. Nice. Let's see. It's another one. Can you make it? Can you make it? The same for general graphics. So, maybe some of the period from the time of the manuals. So, we have another one. Which is gold, but it's not important, so it's going to cost you. You're going to have to speak in the morning session. Well, yeah, and you're supposed to have your hands on the table. Ah, yes, it is. Can you just make it in the morning session? Yes, to be sure. Right on time. Okay, so we're going to have to wait a bit more. And then this. Well, then we need to have athrough. What do you want to say? You have to know, in the lunchtime, we're going to have a lunch. Maybe we should come here for some people. Yeah, it will be less usefull, when we now are hungry. Very well, because I thought it would be packed up and... Oh, that's a bit of a nice story. Well, I slept well, didn't I? No, it was very good. You didn't say nothing, but I was excited. I was excited. Very nice. Very nice, completely relaxed. Very nice. It was horrible. It was really, but... Yeah, I'm not an expert. I think I've been there for a while. Yeah, good. I need to start. All right, it's not really a big deal. Maybe we can do it. We'll have to wait somehow. Yeah. Well, it's not... You know, there was nothing. A second window. His location was... His location is on 1280 by 800. He was in the middle of the room. He was in the middle of the room. He was in the middle of the room. Which resolution? 1280 by 800. Down. 1280 by 800. Down. So this one doesn't... The other one was... This one is the screen. So... This one doesn't help. Anyway, it's in showing up. It's very interesting. But now it's very not here. It's on the mind. Do you want something? I don't know. I should press F5 to get it started. Yeah, now it could do. If you start your presentation, you'll be able to do the screen. Yeah, I know. Just a second. Yeah, that's it. Now I can... Oh, but then we'll check if this movie will be displayed. Oh, yeah. If we'll do it. Move it. Now I have to go back to the other room. There would be no sound, probably. Now I don't need sound. Aha. Let's see whether... Well, it's way down the presentation film. I think it should... It's a problem of... If it plays on the computer, it should actually... Yeah, but there are two separate screens now. And this is the first one, the second one. We can't make it work with the first screen. Or maybe we can do everything. I don't need a screen here. I just need the same as... Yeah. Yeah. I think it's open somewhere beneath the presentation... Yeah, but there's nothing to see the other one. Yeah, but there's nothing to see the other one. Yeah, but there's nothing to see the other one. Oh, here. But it's not a question. We have to move the... Can we now be removed from the the small part of the screen? That's the other one, man. That's the other one, man. That's the one, man. That's the other one. Now we go back to the... the last one. So, open the blender and the creation thing. And now if we press... No, it's the other way around. No. So, maybe we can... We have only one screen. Or at least the same as the last one. Yeah, just switch this one off. There. And we will just move this one from the bottom. Yeah. But then maybe the resolution needs to be right. 12.18. 17.6. 16.8. I think we're using it a bit, I guess. There's nothing to see the other one. About 20 minutes left. There's nothing to see the other one. If you want more... More... more... with the eyes open. And the next one is the brother count. That's two. That's two. That's two. That's four. That's five. That's three. That's three. Okay, that's true. Thank you very much. Thanks. Okay, hello. And welcome to the case study. Blender has an all-in-one tool for film production. My name is Tito Sphere. I'm running an animation studio called M emotion in Zurich, Switzerland. I'm from doing CGI work for clients in different fields. I'm also producing independent short animation films. I started using Blender roughly three years ago and would like to give you an insight into the creation process of my most recent short film production made with Blender. I'm going to talk about why my software choice was Blender and the film's general production pipeline then explain one sequence in more detail. So why with Blender? Over the past decade, I've been noticing Blender a couple of times. As I had my doubts about the reliability of freeware in general, my attitude towards Blender wasn't different. Then Elephant Stream, Big Buck Bunny and Sintel came along and made me curious. I learned about the reason of the open movie projects and the Blender foundation and I noticed a vivid web community around the software. I also realized that Blender wasn't just some specialized niche software designed as a set of tools to accomplish the different kinds of jobs involved in a production pipeline. I really liked Blender's all-in-one philosophy which seemed ideal for my studio. So I decided to use Blender as an all-in-one solution for my newest short film, Size Matters. The question was, was it reliable? And for that I had big question marks at the beginning. But then first tests proved reliable indeed. So I gave it a try and used it as an all-in-one tool for accomplishing my film. So the animation film, Size Matters, is about a fish which gets pulled out of the water on a hook. As it struggles for life, its last dream begins and with it a journey through a world of color and sound. With death approaching, the dream wears out but suddenly the fish finds itself being thrown back into the safe water among its bigger fellow members, Size Matters. The film is a six and a half minutes animation rendered out in HD 1920 by 1080, 25 frames per second. The overall production took me roughly one and a half years. The rendering capacity involved three machines. The Blender version was 2.67 for most of the production time. The film consists of the intro and outro and seven sequences in between, each with its various scene layers. As with any such project, the creation process of the film involved the general stages of pre-production, production and post-production. Blender's tool set conveniently allowed to accomplish these stages in one software environment. So in the pre-production phase, I broke the story down into sequences and made a storyboard, collected and shot some reverence material, started blocking in scenes, the technical pipeline and folder structures and made an animatic. The animatic is basically a film version of the storyboard with additional timing and sound added to the pictures. So for that, I took the storyboard's pictures I had made before and put them on the timeline of the video sequence editor or the VSC. Each sequence I numbered and named according to the storyboard. This numbering system was the base both for the future Blender files and the render folders generated in production and post-production. For each sequence, I used a full three-digit number, like sequence one was 100 plus a name and so on. This allowed some flexibility if later an additional element had to be added. So a transition mask between sequence two and three, for example, would get labeled something like 250 plus a name. The same naming convention was applied to the compositing production. Once the storyboard and the animatic seemed to work, the production phase could start. It involved modeling the assets and characters, creating the materials, texturing, lighting, rigging and the animation of camera, objects, masks and more. It was also about getting specific and translating the drawings into a modeled 3D world. The concept drawings weren't always precise enough for direct translation into 3D. Here, for example, to the left, the muscle opens and the fish swims into the muscle while there is some transition effect going on. So I had to decide how to interpret the visual effect, which, like in this case, sometimes meant a lot of experimenting. Where possible, I kept the elements of a particular film sequence in one blender file, creating a blender scene for each main part. This allowed quick swapping back and forth between scenes. For example, here you see the blender file of the fish tunnel sequence with its scenes and their compositing, all in one blender file. Post-production. First, the individual scenes of the sequence were put together, color adjusted, etc., in their own blender file. Then the render output of that compositing was combined with the other sequences of the film in a global compositing. That was when the battle with the spaghetti monster began. Keeping the overview with all the inputs, transitions and animated values proved to be quite demanding. Now you might ask, is the Node Editor the right tool for the final edit? Probably not. Why not line up the finished sequences in the VSC for its linear display and therefore better overview? Well, that was the original plan. So the animatic drawings would gradually get replaced by the finished film frames as the project developed. The master edit would happen in the VSC so much for the plan. However, this turned out not to be very practical with my project. Why not? The film had one peculiarity. The plots dictated a one-camera shot through most of the film's dream part, which is most of the sequences. This meant hardly any clean cuts. Instead, the sequences were connected by very long transitions with animated masks, patterns, textures and colors. So the reason why I ended up editing the whole film in the Node Editor was that for those transitions, the VSC offered less compositing possibilities, at least to me. Of course, the price I had to pay for keeping everything in the Node Editor was the loss of overview because it is, as you might know, not timeline-oriented. The film was rendered with blender internal. Why not cycles? The nature of the film, all sorts of graphical elements and underwater environments didn't really call for a global illumination approach with bouncing lights. Additionally, with cycles being quite new at the time and me still a newbie with blender, I didn't want to hit a wall somewhere way into production. That would have meant re-texture and relight all the scenes again for the other render engine, which would have been a nightmare, obviously. One exception when I used cycles was a sequence where the fish swam between light-emitting jellyfish. So the fish is cycles, the jellyfish blender internal. I could have lit the fish with parented point lights in blender internal, but for this layer it seemed easier to swap to cycles, give the jellyfish an emission material and get the fish illuminated by the jellyfish's geometry. Okay, let's have a closer look at one particular sequence in detail. This is the beginning of the dream part once the fish lies on the shore. Basically, the sequence is about a bunch of fish eggs being the prey of a school of sardines, which in turn are on the menu of some tuna. Then the next sequence is introduced with an animated transition mask. The sequence is composed of several geometry layers. The underside of the ocean, the light rays, the eggs and the baby fish or the fish embryo, the fish trail, the school of sardines, the tuna, the water noise. Can one see that? No, it's not really. The freestyle layer and the animated transition mask. So the water surface was created and animated with the ocean modifier. For the skylight behind the water surface, I created a disc with a shadeless material and an opacity falloff. This way, I had full control of the highlights, shape and location and it let me achieve in a simple way the illusion of that particular underwater look with stark highlights in the center and the darker regions towards the edges of the frame. Later in compositing, this effect would be further enhanced with a vignette. The light rays were a similar cheat. Basically, they are spot lamps with a volumetric halo. The halo gets partially blocked off by a plane with holes, the square one. Right above that plane, a disc with some missing segments is rotating. This creates the illusion of randomly casted light beams shining through the ocean surface. For the rays fall off towards the deeper regions, I animated a mask according to camera movement, which then would be used in compositing to fade out the rays' image layer. The fish eggs. The fish embryo with its rig was animated along a path. The egg deformation was accomplished with a lattice and the pounding embryo hearts were animated with shape keys. There are two versions of eggs, one animated and high-res for the foreground and a simpler one for all the eggs in the middle and background. Here, the eggs' refractions of the background proved quite tricky. Since the background wasn't physically present in the scene, but consisted of various layers in the compositing, there was nothing for the eggs to refract. So I had to render out a version of the composited sequence without fish eggs, then feed the result into the egg scene as a 2D background and render it with 3D eggs, which now would have something to refract. But because I had to blur the background for smooth refractions, I couldn't use this render as the final frames. Now, Blender's Node Editor allows to insert a 3D scene as a render layer, which is what I did to integrate the refracting eggs into the rest of the sequence compositing. The fish trail. The fish trail was a particle emitter with two emitting faces, which followed the fish and rotated along its path direction. Here, I ran into a problem. With Blender version 2.67, an emitter which was parented to an animated object didn't emit particles on a subframe level. So as an example, the unparented animated emitter spread them evenly and gave me this result. The parented emitter, however, would give me this, clouds on a per-frame basis. So in order to get a smooth fish trail, I had to unparent the emitter from the fish and animate it along the fish path, nearly frame by frame, so it would follow the fish. That was quite tedious. But the good news, this issue has been solved in a more recent Blender version. Yay. So the School of Sardines particle spoids. For the sardines, there were two void systems set up with slightly different settings. Both chasing a target or a leader. Some of the tunas, or rather their dummies, swimming through the school were set up as avoid collision objects. This way, when they hit the school, they made the sardines flee in all directions. After modeling and texturing the tuna geometry, it got rigged. Tail and head movements were animated and saved as actions. The tuna rig was animated along a path. Then rig, tuna and path were copied and arranged in the scene and the animation was randomized in the NLA editor and dope sheet. The water noise. To make the shot more believable, I simulated some of these small drifting bits which are present in every underwater life footage. To do this, I set up a nearly static particle system with some Brownian motion and rendered it out through the main camera a couple of times with different seats and as a black and white mask. Then I integrated the noise into the compositing with varying intensity and color settings. The freestyle layer. Apart from the intro and outro, there are superimposed outline animations throughout parts of the film for a storytelling reason. For these outline renders, the newly introduced freestyle feature came in handy. The option mark freestyle edge together with the edge type settings gave me good control over which contour of a mesh would be drawn and which wouldn't. And finally, the compositing of the sequence. Now the individual scene renders were fed into the node editor for compositing. The ocean background was combined. Sorry. What was that? I missed something. The animated transition mask first. The moving pattern in the shape of tuna fish acts like a stencil with the other sequence underneath. For this, I recycled the tuna scene by getting rid of the lighting and textures, repositioning the tuna and rendering it out as a black and white mask. Now the compositing. Everything was fed into the node editor for compositing. The ocean background was combined with the tuna and the fish flock each with their individual adjustments in color and contrast. Then the rays, water noise and fish eggs were added. The finished sequence was rendered out and fed into another mother of all compositing in a separate blender file, then offset to the right time and blended into the next sequence with the animated transition mask. Here also the freestyle layer and the fish trail were added. Finally, this global compositing got tweaked again in color and contrast and a vignette was applied. So wrapping it up. In my opinion, blender's main strength lies in the combination of the various CG tools under one hood. The fact that one can make an entire film with one package is fantastic. I believe the more the individual environments are blending into each other, the faster one can accomplish such a task. With this in mind and having done my film with blender or made my film, I had an idea for a possible feature or improvement. The integration of parts of a compositing in the VSC pipeline. A change in the timeline, sorry, a change in the compositing, maybe the node group or something likewise would show in the VSC. But moving the strip in the VSC shouldn't screw up the starting frames in the compositing. The VSC strip would act as a placeholder or a parent of the compositing. Anyway, I didn't think it through in detail yet and I think there is already some efforts in the forums and on the web. But nevertheless, the ID seemed noteworthy here. In my view, such a feature could well improve the post-production process. No, conclusion! Now the conclusion. Computer graphics imagery is about finding the most efficient way to sell an illusion to the human eye. If it looks great, it is great, right? For creating this illusion in my opinion with blender and its combined overlapping work environments, one has a very efficient and consistent toolset at hand. Thank you. Thank you very much. That was the last presentation in this section. So please move questions to the lunchroom and have fun. Thank you.


So, of course, I'm sure many of you have already seen, director of CSI, CSI, of CSI, the long day director, I'm sorry, Jen Easterly, and Scott Shapiro, who has written a book.  So, I'm in. All right. Enjoy. Awesome. Thanks, brother. How's everybody doing? Being like, we're the last panel in the night. I'm loving the turnout. Hey, so I have to say, I was super excited that Professor Shapiro agreed to join me. I was reading this book, and it's called, I don't know how many of you read it. It's called Fancy Bear Goes Fishing, The Dark History of the Information Age in Five Extraordinary Hacks. I'm like, this is pretty good. And the reason why I was so taken with it was because a lot of what Scott wrote about really resonated in one of the big priorities that we've been working on over the past year, which is technology that has to be secure coming out of the box, secure by design. And so I was really taken with the whole work in it and just kind of reached out to you, I think over Twitter. And you should follow Scott on Twitter.   And I just reached out to you. I'm like, dude, you want to chat? And so thank you for being here, my friend. Thank you. Is this on? Yeah. Thanks so much. It was a DM, and I was so excited. I remember responding, I'm going to play this simple and say thank you.   All right, so I'm going to do the interview, which is fun, because I don't have to worry about what I'm going to say. But you can interview me if you have any questions.  So really, Fancy Bear Goes Fishing is really the history of cyber crime through the lens of five epic hacks. And it starts with the Mora Swarm. How many people remember the Mora Swarm? All right, not bad. Not bad. All right, so just give us a quick summary of hacking greatest hits. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. First of all, thank you so much. By the way, everyone for letting me be here and Jen for inviting me to talk about Fancy Bear. So the Mora Swarm is, you know, as many people in this room have heard of it, for those who did it, who haven't. So on November 2, 1988, a first year graduate student from Cornell University, Robert Morris Jr. released a worm on the internet as an experiment and it went awry and it crashed the internet. And he had to tell his dad that he had crashed the internet, who at the time was the head of cybersecurity for the NSA. And he ended up being the first person to be convicted of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. The hacking epicenter switches in the early 1990s to Eastern Europe, to Bulgaria of all places, which acts as like the world's virus factory. And I kind of explore the production of DOS viruses and particularly the reputed best virus writer Dark Avenger and try to figure out who Dark Avenger was. And if you're in the audience, Scott. Dark Avenger, are you out there? Scott.chapiroa.edu. Calling Dark Avenger. He probably wouldn't own up to it. It's a great name. So the third hack is 2005, when a 16-year-old South Boston boy hacked the cell phone of Paris Hilton and then leaked nude photos onto the web. The fourth hack that I discuss is the fancy bear hack of 2016 with the DNC. I'm sure we're all very familiar with that. And finally, the Mariah Botnet, which was this giant IoT botnet, sorry, in some ways still exists out there. And that was built by a first-year undergraduate at Rutgers as a way of getting out of his calculus exam and then ended up crashing the internet in October 2016. So those are the five that I kind of try to tell the story of hacking. So which was your favorite, or at least which one had the biggest impression on you? Oh, God, that's like saying, which of my kids do I love the most?  Is this being recorded? So I would say, in terms of the person I feel most, I feel for the most is Robert Morris Jr. because he's like a grad student and he has this idea and it's an experiment. And then he crashes the internet and really messes up his dad's career. And I really feel like I could have done that. I feel like that too. So just that just complete, like, oh, my God, what did I do? And then the whole world is looking at you. What's fascinating is that before the Morris worm, the Americans never heard the word internet before. And so it's, you know, this new thing and he's the poster child for this new thing. So that's that I feel sad about that. Did you interview him? No, as a matter of fact, I wrote him, he did not write back to me, but I was able to interview a bunch of them. The one, the one who I got in a way got the most out of was interviewing Cameron LaCroy, who was the boy who hacked Paris Hilton's cell phone and learned about his story and finally found out the true story of how he hacked the phone, which is in fact, all the other accounts are not true. So that was really fun to learn that. And I was so don't worry, everyone's going to read the book. Yeah, I mean, I have to have some teasers.  So read the book, find out. So look, 1988. And then actually, there wasn't a ton of stuff that went on until, you know, maybe the late 2000s. And then we saw a whole bunch of things that the Sony hack, obviously want to cry the things that we saw with sandworm. So do you think it's significant that there was that gap of sorts? When we first realized there is an internet and the enormity of how cyber attacks could have an impact. And then, you know, this just explosion that we've seen to include ransomware, like how do you think about that? Yeah. So I mean, if you think that in 1988, Americans had never heard the word internet, it takes about three decades for the internet to suffuse throughout all areas of society, which creates an enormous attack vector for nation states. Now remember, there's lots of hacking happening in the 1990s and the early 2000s. That's why this conference exists courtesy of Microsoft. We'll come back to that. So what happens really in the late 2000s and in the 2010s is that nation states get into the act. And so the first kind of shot, so to speak, in cyber conflict is often pegged to the 2007 Russian supported DDoS of Estonia. And the reason why it's of Estonia is because Estonia at the time is the most digitally integrated society. So it's just like this unbelievably great target. We should also not forget the role that the United States government played, Stuxnet is 2009. And a lot of attacks are responses to Stuxnet. And then you have things like WannaCry, which are NSA exploits. So I feel like the United States definitely hurried things up in terms of cyber conflict. When you think about the motivations though, so you write a little bit about motivations falling into crime, espionage and war. So motivation like matters, right? So how do you think about people and orgs and overall behavior? Where does this all sort of, how are you thinking about it when you're writing about it? Sure. So one of the things I love about like hacking, not just the activity, which is really fun, but like thinking about it is that hacking can be just with the same technical activity, can be either crime, espionage or war. And they're handled in completely different ways. And they have very different threat models. So cyber crime, what's the main motivation for cyber crime? Well, it's the main motivation for crime because it kind of, cyber crime is kind of a crime now. And that is money. And normally done for self-interested purposes, espionage is so different. Espionage is done by nation state actors to collect information for the use in national and economic security. So, and this is something that I think people find very surprising, but it won't be surprising somebody in the government, but spying is legal. I mean, it's legal under international law. Every country recognizes that every country has a right to spy under international law. So you have like one group of people that want to get money, and that presupposes certain types of threat models. But then you have this other group, which is basically they have infinite resources, they're not after the money, and they believe it's completely legitimate, and so does the world. What's really fascinating in what lots of people in the government worry about in academia is when does espionage become war? And that also comes into motivation. Or is it, was the hack designed to gain information or was it designed to disrupt digital systems? And so you have to kind of know why the people are doing it in order to know how to handle which government agency is supposed to handle it. But then also, if you own assets, you have to figure out like who are the bad actors and what are they after? Yeah. So I feel bad because I'm like drinking my beer. Sure. Okay. I'll catch up. All right, good. So you know, it's interesting. I spent a bit of time at the NSA and was part of the team that helped us stand up US Cyber Command. And we always used to talk about like turning the hat, right? Moving from Title 50 to Title 10 from computer network exploitation to computer network attack. But a lot of talk now about what can constitute cyber war, which I think is still sort of unsettled, right? And you are both a professor of law and a professor of philosophy. So I feel like you're the perfect person to ask this question. So can we have an answer? Yeah, yeah, sure. By the way, I am the perfect person. So I got into this thing because I had written a book before Fancy Bear called The Internationalist about the evolution of the right to war from 1600 to 2014. And so when I would go out talking about the book, people would ask me, well, what about cyber war? And I'd be like, yeah, what about cyber war? I don't know. And it's really, really difficult to figure out. And let me just tell you, there's a very basic answer, which is so uninteresting. And then there's a really interesting answer, which I will mention that the really uninteresting answer is that when cyber attacks have the same kinetic effects as kinetic weapons, that can be considered a violation of the United Nations Charter of Oracle II foreign and active war. But that's not that interesting, because it's just like cyber is just one more weapon in the arsenal. What's fascinating about cyber stuff and cyber war is not that we can take an exploit and mimic what a bomb can do. What's fascinating about cyber is that we can take an exploit and do something that a bomb could never do, which is to affect the availability and integrity of information. And so what happens is, I think, is that all of our laws of war, because it makes sense, it was like developed for over centuries of land and naval battles, the big concern there is physical security. But we live in a world of information security. And how the laws of war are supposed to apply not to those who are threatening physical security, but those who are threatening our information security, that is something we have very little experience with. And I would say that the laws of war ought not to be applied to cyber, but there are laws of international law which are relevant like the norm of non-interference. But instead of trying to retrofit everything into the old kinetic model, I think we need to think about what would war be like when what's being attacked is information security. Fascinating. I want to get into some of the key concepts that you talk about, and I want to start with a knock-knock joke. Sure. Knock-knock. Who's there? Upcode. This is definitely an updog joke. Upcode who? You wanted to say updog, didn't you? I did. I did want to say updog. What is upcode? Okay, thank you very much. That was the smoothest introduction. So I would say the following.  That is your psychology, your ethics, the rules of DEF CON, website terms of service, social rules, professional rules, rules of professional ethics, and finally, of course, the law. And so one of the things that I realized by writing the book is that when I would write about the technical vulnerabilities in the downcode, ultimately, I was always trying to explain why the vulnerabilities made it there in the first place. And they made it there in the first place because the upcode, because the rules that surround us give us the wrong incentives. And so one of the things is I actually went and rewrote the book because I thought, wait a second, we come to this conference because we love code and we love downcode. We love working with this stuff. But in some sense, that's, when we're at the level of downcode, it's almost too late. Well, it's definitely too late. Yeah. What we need to do is we need to intervene much higher in the upcode stack. And this is what I love about your work and CISA is focusing on that upcode stack because what you want to do is you want to catch it before it's a problem. So let's go to that. You mentioned software vulnerabilities. So why don't you sort of give us the elevator pitch for why the internet and software is so insecure? And how the hell do we fix it? Yeah, sure. I have like five minutes, right? So yeah. So what I would say is this is the elevator pitch. The elevator pitch is to use your elevator pitch but to flip it. One thing which is fascinating about the development of the internet is that it was insecure by design and insecure by default, which is going to make, which makes unwinding it so difficult. What do I mean by insecure by design? Well, the internet as so many of us know here is built on an end-to-end principle. You push all the time consuming things like security to the end points.  And so all the pressure is on the end points, which would be your like your OS and your users. And it's really a tricky situation when you put all this pressure on the end points. The people who were building the end points like, you know, the Unix, you know, you know, Thompson and Richie. I mean, Dennis Richie famously said that like when he built Unix, security was not in mind. So you have the system that pushes all the security responsibilities to the end point. And the end point creators are researchers who are most concerned about sharing their information rather than protecting it from being stolen. So you have a system that's an end-to-end system that's built by researchers who are not concerned with security at the beginning. And that's the, in some sense, it's baked in. So how do we fix it? Yeah. So the way we fix it, I think, is you have to give people the right incentives. You have to give people the right incentives to change their behavior. Because ultimately, why do we do anything? We do anything because there are reasons that we think we have. And the reasons that we're given are almost always given by the social norms, the work norms, the legal norms in which we inhabit. What's so, I find bizarre and upsetting is that this product that is supposed to be eating our world, software, is almost completely immune from legal liability. And one of the things that I know from teaching law is that if you do not give actors reasons to internalize their costs, they will not. And it is the path of tech law to start with a completely unregulated space or largely unregulated space for it to gain enormous amount of economic and political power. And then all of a sudden people start and think, we need to change this. And I think we're at that point now. President Biden's national security strategy has proposed that there should be software liability for vulnerabilities, for security vulnerabilities that have been, I assume, negligently produced. And I think that's a fantastic and long overdue innovation. And it's going to, I think, put an enormous amount of pressure on developers to start doing security by design, by default. Yeah. And we are, so for those of you who are interested, we really are working on a serious initiative on secure by design. If you go to our web page, there's a lot of work. I've got a lot of teammates here, Bob Lord, Jack Cable, Lauren Zabrick, who are working on this.  You know, you think about revered security researcher, Dan Kamitsky, right?  The internet was designed to move pictures of cats. And we're very good at moving pictures of cats, right?  And it's one of the reasons why I'm so captured with these AI, you know, AI. And we're not going to talk a ton about AI, but I think it's just another flavor of software, right? At the end of the day. But I do want to talk about our awesome community. You've been coming to DEF CON for how long now? This is my fifth time, but first time is 2017. Awesome. So we're at a hacker conference today, my favorite, my favorite conference. And this book really dives into the importance of the InfoSec community, right? And I like to my core believe that this community is the key to saving, frankly, saving the internet, saving technology, right? The ingenuity, the creativity, the curiosity. That's why I come because we need your brainpower, your creativity, your ingenuity, your curiosity to help us solve this problem. So can you talk a little bit about how the InfoSec community is shaped as you think about your understanding of how to best deal with this insecure technology? Yeah, so I want to say, I mean, I don't know, I don't know all of you, just to say the very least. But I actually love the security community. It reminds me so much of the academic community, though nice. And the reason why I mean is say the academic community is because you come here, it feels like an academic conference in the sense that they're very high standards. People are really into what they do. And they really want to convey to you what they know, and they want to hear what you know. One of the things I cannot tell you what it's like to be a researcher and to work in this space, because everything is put in the public domain, I shouldn't say everything, but so much is put in the public domain. And it is an enormous service to people who are less competent than you, because there are those of us who read your white papers, read your reports, and learn how things work that we would not have been able to learn otherwise. One of the things, and maybe we'll talk about in a bit, but one of the difficulties of this field is it's absurdly interdisciplinary. It's absurdly multidimensional. You have to know so many things. Part of the things I would say that the role the InfoSec community can play, which you already do play so much of it, is teaching people, well, like me, but like those professionals, sociologists, anthropologists, lawyers, about what you do, because you don't maybe realize how opaque a lot of it is and how young the field is, and that there are not many courses on it. There are not that many textbooks on it. And so, you know, if this is going to be a collective effort, it's going to have to be led and supported by the people who know it the best, namely you. So there's a book ends up talking about solutionism, the death of solutionism. And can you just talk a little bit about the whole concept of solutionism and how it applies to how we think about creating more secure technology? And then I've got two more, wait, I've got one more question, and then I've got a big idea that I want to share with everybody and get your feedback on. Okay, so I'm going to, you know, let you get to your big idea. So I would just say, so solutionism was the term that was invented by the social critic Evgeny Morozov, kind of making fun of the tendency of our society to think that every social problem can be solved with an app. And I love, I don't know who wrote this, but one of your team or you or somebody said, we can't cyber our way out of this problem. And I think that's 100% true. I mean, we've been spending so much time trying to cyber our way out of it. And it's actually an inefficient way to do it. The efficient way to deal with social problems is not at the typological level. It is at the social normative level. It is changing culture. It is changing education. It is getting people to see things that they didn't see before. And I think that the problem with solutionism is it motivated, it's easy. You can say, oh, well, we're going to earmark several billion dollars to do something that's going to fix things. We're going to call it a cyber moonshot.  But what we really should be doing is doing the hard work of working our way up the upcode stack, figuring out where can we intervene so that we don't get lousy down code that needs to be fixed. That is, I feel like the way in which mature societies regulate technology. Yeah. You said Manhattan project. So I have to talk about Oppenheimer. How many people saw Oppenheimer? What did you say? Oh, don't say the end. Yeah. How many people saw Barbie? I haven't yet, but I'm super psyched you. I haven't seen, I have to be honest, I have to be honest with you all. I haven't seen Oppenheimer either, but I'm reading the books. Either way. I have to finish the book first. So you know, it's interesting. Some people talk about, you know, this being an Oppenheimer moment with AI. And I'm just wondering how you think about that in terms of how we should all feel like we are good stewards of the technology. Like everybody out here is in some way cares about technology, cares about creating technology that is safe for America to use. So like, what's your, what's your thinking on that? I mean, what I'm going to say is kind of banal, but I think it deserves repeating like over and over again. One of the things I find interesting about working with engineers is they work so much with tools and they follow the specifications that they're given that they in some sense think of themselves as tools. They think of themselves as like, oh, you know, just following orders. I'm just following the specs. But like, you're not a tool.  Most of you. Most of you. I regret saying that. But the thing is, we're all morally autonomous agents. And it's especially the case with AI where like, everyone's like flipping AI this AI that everyone's so excited about things. And we don't have the beginning of a clue of how to make it safe, which is really like if people would just be like, honest and open about this, because there's a way in which this community has a credibility culturally that lots of other fields don't have, like, you know, lawyers, academics, all of our prestige is dropping. I feel like the security community has a very high high prestige socially. And if you come out and say this is unsafe, this is not a risk that should be taken. It will be taken seriously because you know what you're doing. And that will be a that will not only be a really important contribution to human progress, but it also will label you to sleep at night. Yeah, that's fantastic. I totally agree with that. So one more question, because you are a professor of philosophy. Who is your favorite philosopher and why? Oh, my God. Okay, so that's we didn't discuss any of this. Okay, so that's that's that's an impossible thing. I would just simply say that I'm a legal philosopher. So Herbert Long, the side of his heart, HLA heart is my favorite. Anybody ever read concept of law? Oh, you're killing me. Oh, my God. These are not your people. Yeah. No, you're my people, but but you could be more my people.  But of course, the three greatest philosophers of all time are Aristotle, Hume and Kant. I mean, that just has to be said. I think the greatest philosophers of all time are John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Amen. Okay, I have a big idea that I just like thought of earlier. And so Scott is a wonderfully human being, a great writer, a professor, but he is also an accomplished musician. And we wanted to bring our guitars, but we didn't. But this is what I'm thinking. Do you know what Defcon lacks? Like a freaking music village? Right? Come on, we need a meat. Come on, people. We need like a rock and roll village. This is what I'm thinking. Jeff Moss is going to kill me, but I've already like already previewed this with him. So we need like everybody to bring your instruments, whatever it is, we could have a village that's like a jam session, but we could also bring the electronics, we could bring the amps, we could do all kinds of hacking on the amps. So I'm really thinking I'm going to talk to my team about like CISA, and perhaps Yale University, right? I'm like, Scott up to all of this, like the easy. We'll form a super group. Super group. So whoever wants to be part of music village rock and roll village, next year. See us after this. But in all seriousness, look, I really want to thank Scott for being willing to do this, for showing up with such expertise, such grace, such humor, and for your friendship. So thanks everybody for coming and have a great rest of the evening.


Going on everyone, Sam here with late in sports cards. It really is. Ripon23, Pidini certified football hobby, four box break, number 49, picker team style. Names and teams, Brian A with the Ravens, Bills and Chiefs, John C, Lyon Steelers. William L with the Colts, Michael B at Chargers, John W at Browns, Rams Commanders. Matt F. Dolphins, Robert H. Texans, Anica P with the Niners. Nicole N. Bears, Edgar W. Cardinals, Dylan F. Panthers, Patrick R. Raiders, and Saints, Charlie S. Patriots. Paul B. Jets, Travis M. Broncos, Tyler W. Falcons, Jags, Giants, Eagles and Titans. Ronald L. with the Vikings, Christian W. Seahawks, these aren't in order, so I apologize on that. Scott T. with the Bucks, Corey A. Cowboys, Cardboard, Legacy with the Packers, and Frank S. with the Bengals. So good luck, everybody. I don't know why, that was weird. I thought they were alphabetized, but they were really not. So sorry about that, but that's everybody in the break. So I did. You get Facebook if you make scuffle in the end zone. Extra curriculus. Jack Hammond-Mortals, Stetson Bennett to 199, Jersey Card for the Rams. There's a Travis Kelsey to 149, Purple to 10, Devin Lloyd, 4 of 10 for the Jags. Justin Herbert to 399, Kendra Miller, Hock and some more base. That is a Terran Clorin, Certified Stars, Pink Broderick Jones to 199, Burns, Feelin, Bossa, Bossa, Bossa. Gold Team Sauce, Ritter and Base. Is calling cards, Devin Cook, Henden Hooker to 99, Three Colored Patch, 10 of 99. Base, base, base, base there. Bijan, that is going to be a piece of the game, Tyger Spears to 149. He's actually looking pretty good for Tennessee. Got to give him that for sure. Thank you there, Brandon, picking up a Almanac spot. Three Almanacs spots left, everybody. Three Almanacs. Saquon, Sean Clifford, rookie Jersey Auto 299 on the pink. Freshman Fabric for the Packers, congrats, Pack. Base, base, and more base. That is a Mordals, Joe Namath, Fred Warner to 349 for the Niners. Base, base, and more base again. Got Josh Allen, Blue to 75, Austin Eckler. We already had a comment on YouTube about that, Vaughn, or Instagram, one or the other. I already had a comment about that. Wild, dude. Absolutely wild, though. On to the next one. I'm going to my Instagram, Tagli, Ithaca Sports Cards, I-T-H-A-C-A, and you could just go to my... It's in my bio. Monras St. Brown. Josh Downs, Blue to 199 on the rookie Jersey for the Colts. Base, base, and base again. Tim Brown, a bronze to 275 Sam Howell. For the Commanders. Base, Aaron Donald. Bronze, Drew Sanders to 275. A brand of topplers, do we recommend? What do we use, usually Ultra Pro? Cardboard Gold. Cardboard Gold is what we use. I think Jumbo Diaz is cooler than Micah Sicki. Neither of them are cool. Certified Soros 199 is TJ Watt. Let's go. Desmond Ritter to 75 for the Falcons. Of course, we unmasked Micah Sicki. We know who Micah Sicki is now. It's you. It's Mark Andrews. Rishi Rice, rookie Jersey Otter to 399. For the Jeeps. Dan Hampton, Desmond Ritter to 349. Base, base. Gold team, Miles Garrett to 249, 225, J. Jedis. That is 18 to 25, meaning it is Jersey numbered. Mike Evans. Will McDonald. Had a farm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In all that farm he had, it's his. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Annie's sunk.   Trash, trash. Will McDonald had a farm. Wow. Jeez, dude. All the way over there. I hit like a point. It's a 50 each. Shondon Taylor. What happened there? My brain couldn't go hot. 17 to 50. On the piece of the game, Jersey start. Congrats Colts. That was smooth. That was... That was great. That was not a good look. I've got to be honest with you, Jake. Not a great look there. Not a great look at all. I was actually doing it because... Right, that's with some spots. That's what I thought it was too, but you didn't play it off very well. Unfortunately for you. That's what it was, though. That's actually what it was. What? Show him. Show what goes on during a break? I know, honestly. Here's what you got to look forward to in the future, Rich. Rich is probably watching right now and just shaking his head like... Like, where did we go wrong, man? What is going on? Last spot of the night. Because Forrest is definitely doing that right now. Oh, yeah. Like, I always say, look at the list of people that Forrest has report to him, technically. Me, Kyle, you, Sean, Bofa, Dylan sometimes. Yep. It's not good. Jay's on there. Jay, yeah. Not a great roster. I think it's an awesome roster. I don't know where you're down there. I don't know. That's kind of a bottom line. I think that's an all-star roster. Aaron Donald to 249. That is a Bobby Hebert 235. I just went there for the Saints. Great auto. That too. Very nice auto. What was the MVP? Yeah. That is Derek Henry. Zay Flours to 199. Zay Tobin bringing Zay Flours, baby. Congrats on that. Venz. They're one of the last teams taken, too. Gold team Garrett Wilson. Certified ballers to 99 is Derek Henry. Killa Trav calling cards. That is Danny Dimes to 275. Dick Bukkis, Jonathan Mingo to 399. 50 DK. There's a lot. I don't know. It's narrowly down for me. DK McCaff certified stars to 199. Derek Carr, piece of the game for the Saints on the jersey. Certified stars, Justin Fields. Baker Mayfield. Yeah. 349. Woo. Jacob Mayfield. Fire the cannons. Jacob Mayfield, underscore of cards. Still zero posts on Instagram. That's true. Gold team, Justin Tucker. Pink to 199. So rough showing hurts. It's really not good. That was like the biggest letdown in history. I'm sorry. Oh, he made an account. Oh, he didn't post anything. Patrick Mahomes calling cards. Zach Charbonate to 275. Nice one there for the Seahawks. Chop, cook, and burrow. Jason with an Almanac spot. Sean M with the Yankees and a couple of Bowman draft cases. Rhino with a couple of topstone black spots. So thank you all. Appreciate that again, everybody. Again, just one spot to go. One spot left in our NT break. With 38, 11, and 10 and three-quarters. Lord. Headband Luca. Headband Luca is kind of scary. I'm not going to lie. I agree with that one. That is calling cards of Justin Fields. Green, Robert Brooks, four of five. On the auto for the Packers. Really cool one there. Paul Anderson, a Shaquille Leonard to 275. For the Colts now of the Eagles. Philly. Philly, Philly. Philly, Philly. Garrett Wilson, certified ballers. Bryce Young to 199 for the Panthers. That's on that Caroline. Marchece, certified stars. That is a DTR to 325. He is a Parley's best friend for sure. Gold team Young-Way Koo. Tyree Wilson to 349. Oh, geez. Oh, boy. Oh, geez. Oh, boy. Oh, geez. Get the band button ready. Get the band button ready, please. Who let you in here? Tordio Gates, red, 299. It's Nolan Smith for the Eagles. We seriously need to reconsider who we let in this stream on a day-to-day basis. Brian Robinson. What up, though, Strive? What up, man? Cooper Cup. That is Jalen Carter, freshman fabric mirror signatures for the Eagles. Congrats on that one. Nice one. Philly. I was Disney today. Went to Disney today? You did. Well, that's what he told me he was doing yesterday. He's got home from Epcot like a drowned rat. Yeah, there you go. H.A. Brown. The answer is my question. Well, McDonald's. Had a form. 399. Woo. Isn't it now? Pink of Dan Hampton to 199. That is a green. Cam Smith, three of five for the Dolphins. Very nice. That's Miami. That's my Dolphin call. That was an interesting. All right. Kid reporters, see you later. Yes. Again, last spot of the night at NT, everybody. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Woo. It's that time. V. Vaughn. Where you at? V term. Let's go over it. Tyree Wilson. Derek Carter. Let's go.  Josh Downs. Stetson Bennett. Got a Derek Henry. Heddon Hooker. And Jonathan Taylor. As soon as he did it, too. He's like. I know. I just know.  Josh Downs. Stetson Bennett. Got a Derek Henry. Heddon Hooker. And Jonathan Taylor. As soon as he did it, too. He's like. I know. I just know. I'm screwed, dude. That is Jalen Carter. Ze Flowers. Rishi Rice. Sean Clifford. Ty J Spears. Desmond Ritter. Bobby Hebert. And Robert Brooks to five. I'll do it for the break, everybody. Thanks again for the film. Coming up next is the next certified. B.