Welcome to WTDC 17 here in Buenos Aires, Argentina where I'm very pleased to be joining the studio today by Dr Ismail Shah from the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority. Dr Shah, thank you very much for being with us today. Thank you very much for inviting me. Now I'd like to start off by talking about digital innovation. I know you just come off a panel session for that. I wanted to find out why is digital innovation important in today's rapidly expanding digital economy? Well, if you look at the economy nowadays it's all about its ICTs and using ICTs to innovate to find solutions to problems that otherwise are difficult to solve. And for that you have to be innovative in the digital domain. And what are some of the digital innovation projects and programs that your country is implementing and what role can telecom regulators play to promote innovation? There are quite a few programs in our country. For example, there's a program on ICT for girls where training is provided to girls in the schools right from the very early age so that they become entrepreneurs. They have the right skills to become entrepreneurs and also work in the technology area. There is program related to persons with disabilities that we really take pride in. We have a policy also that addresses this issue. As a regulator, our main role is that we can actually bring in the traditional telecom sector and introduce them to entrepreneurs and then they can work together. And that has been very successful in our case. And in what ways do you think that digital innovation can promote the attainment of the UN Sustainable Development Goals? Well, first of all, if you look at all the Sustainable Development Goals, they all can have a solution through ICTs. In fact, there is a study also on that regarding, that was related to mobile phone usage for achieving a particular SDG and the role that mobile phone can use. But that can be extended to the use of technology, digital technologies on each of the SDGs, whether that is SDG number four, which is quality education. You see a role of digital innovation there, 3D learning for example. And just talking, speaking of that, recently we had a hackathon on SDGs. And on SDGs number four, there were a group of entrepreneurs led by two girls. They won a prize and then they were invited to ITU and they won a prize there at Busan also.  And the other important thing is that you have to see that in some parts of the world, it's really difficult for women to go out and work. And then with technology, they can work from home and they can be very innovative in their products and solutions that they can offer. That's great. And finally, how do you think that global meetings such as the WCDC can contribute to the promotion of digital innovation? First of all, you learn from each other. You meet each other. You know, although we talk about ICTs and all, but still this human-to-human interaction is very important. So you know about other countries' experiences. Many of the countries actually have similar problems and have found solutions. You talk to them. You also, from the ITU perspective, like for example, they have this policy toolkit regarding innovation. They have done some studies on each country and they have identified the areas where each country needs improvement. And you can also see what is to be done in your own country. So it's very, very important that we have these conferences and we have this experience sharing. Well, thank you very much for sharing those insights with us and we look forward to catching up with you again in the future. Thank you very much. Thank you.


Do you even understand who is in the studio? Alo hai! Volu miko sawa amani yungese. Niku karibendo jo nani. No, do you know who is in the studio? Do you don't understand? Do you know what a day one is? No. You don't know what a day one is? Someone who you have been with since the beginning. First of all, breathe in. No, no, no, I'm very excited. Do you know the last time I saw them? I just didn't eat it nani. Sami, please! Do you know who is in the studio? Do you know who is in the studio with us? Who? Kasa. Ni me wa miziawa. When have you? Who? God! When? Shhh! Shhh! Shhh! Shhh! Shhh! Shhh! Hi! My heart, I have missed you so much. Missed you too. Nambu na nakavzuri. Kukuleka. Kukuleka. Oh! This is for shittu. I'm a volunteer, it's my family. Yes. Nikishaito, Valentine, muna takaji. So, it's my first time. My bad, hey. Ya, since now, last you are here, we had Sami Flange. This is his son, Ken Kingsley. They know me. Oh. Yes. Chesik, we introduce you to Kwanjimi. Get out of here, who can pay to you? Okay, we don't always like this, we don't fight fight in the house, but I'm just so excited to see Kasa, guys. We're excited to see you back man. Akin na ona tuna, na jua tunu me leto. I don't think I'm feeling well. It's been a long time man, I can't beat this. Where have you been? Around. I've been around. Samush kangi singu. So much kwa samalaya to do. Uhu, apa epee. Wacha kunia ni. Kwa ni kachoma wapola. Okay. Na ona kiyo kwa video, apo tami what's going on behind you, there's a screen. Behind me, yes. Oh. This is our new song. Na kafere. Alright baby. What are you baby man say? Kulti temesha. Bo ona kafere. Thank you. Hey, hey, hey. Alright, so I can see there's a concept. Na guys, can I tell you a secret? Is it kusana tana kati kati vinyin meyona? I've seen and heard a couple of songs in his nenda kusandevo, like much later. So, ni ni trend for that? So, I'm a producer here. Oh. Okay, but you always do it. Si ni wa lo ma. Sante, sante. Kuna tete. Na tawakiringa tu tawasa diya. Tawit diya ga. I think we are 20 by the day from day one. Na yama chili amukono ma zetuna cruel. Chuna tuu tuki wak. Si ni ku fly sasa. 2020, please. Tu stu ekama whiskid. Lazima, lazima. Wye yo Lazima? Kingsley, are you ready? Yai. Si ni kibise sana. I'm kibise. Komsena sweats. Mnsine, nico nbiyo. Mnsine, nico nbiyo. Gotawato. Mnsine, nico nbiyo. I'm kamao kakao nga upa. I'm kamao kakao nga upa. Jile mbihiku apa? Ei. Ebo tu guzi shei yonga upa kwa nga. No, I'm sure you do not know who Kasa is. Suha kwa wikia wakama Mwa wikia wakama Mwa wikia wakama Mwa wikia wakama Mwa wikia wakama I hope you now you understand why I am so excited I don't exaggerate things Kaziangu yes niku cha cha But it goes to the right place It goes to the right place Yadu Mwenyata, sejum Fanyeri Asole ya So, chalenge ko wala Mkia wala misawatainba Nawimbe He he he Naditwole kwim Amala Kwa wikia wakama Ika nuzimu mwa ko. Nafakuimba jih? mipe... E challenges kinda. Inanga kwa nusimu kwa suwa jihu. Kha blamichi challenges wa mubu kwa zomabe wa tok pcoverte asooshomidi ya api? Wapi. Tsuoshomidi ya jimaprere? Kalejazi. Uwe tume atu zote. Iro yaox? Tachupita kakaasa k-h-h-s-a-h. Music with a Q at the end. All social media platforms, Kwanzea, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, YouTube, Facebook, Zote, Kasam music. Apolo kwa You Tube emin, subscribers. Oh yes! Like, share, comment. Okay another reason. Mwa social hand up here. Personal sorry. Yes please! Ono meni changanisha! Numisha ni s Kinda Maakai tamani fer Fire Sounds squared Goto The end Do not disappoint We will never disappoint  wants to wish She has a wig as she can't dance He is about to be sir I can work for you I will wear it I will wear it I will wear it I will wear it I will wear it I will wear it Oh my gosh So should I let you just perform a bit first Then we come back I am at Malizane store We can perform Let's ask to the left to perform We come back to Malizane I mean, over time we are here to talk about our line We will pause it after a few minutes Can we say hello? I am sure you are all friends There are many people who were there I have met many friends Even those who were here DJ Wote and Kingsley were friends Many clubs were there and people were happy You cannot know the fate of this decision in your life. You will not regret this decision.  Get me because it would have shake you. Wait, we can see if it is okay if I say no. Namusi jama ki sazinginez tu steamaza studios na fanyam tu asa hawa maze Plas nisha wa tiawa chasa ana, so they are just happy Ya, tofafang, tofanyi lekitu Kuna place mne dakufanyi event any time so Oh ya bende, Friday Ta kapa le club, image maze tu weze sha maze Wachu o toke tu dakuna kina kina kina kina tibag maze Kujemchi soba bisha maze, team kasa Dania nyum baya uzi Una kaka wana chakwenda Ok, mi na pender, sunda Foda, foda, foda Una kiawa


Hi, everybody. This is Jeff Kelly coming to you from Wikibon World Headquarters in Marlborough, Massachusetts. So of course, it's no secret to anyone that big data is really upending the world of traditional world of data warehousing. There's new capabilities like Hadoop and other things that are really bringing new processing storage and analytic capabilities to the enterprise. Joining me today to talk about the kind of this evolving landscape, how big data is impacting data warehousing is Frank Fillmore. He is the president and founder of the Fillmore Group of Consultancy, specializing in IBM and information management. Welcome to the Cube, Frank. Oh, thank you for having me today. I appreciate the opportunity. Absolutely. So Frank, you've been around for a while, you've founded the Fillmore Group back in 1987. So I'm curious, have you seen anything kind of as disruptive to the data warehousing market as the current interest in all things big data is? Well, I have to be honest, I've been in this business almost 35 years, so I've seen a whole bunch of the next new hot, cool disruptive technology. I mean, I go back to the days from when 4GLs, 4th generation languages, were going to take over the world. But I really do think big data is going to have a lot of traction. One of the different things that I see regarding big data that is different is that the pervasiveness, it's not something that is starting in the IT community and spreading out, it's something that is really within the community at large in the business world and even in the person-to-person world and is growing from there, it's much more organic. That's an interesting point. So what are the implications for that? Does that mean that the kind of the, your clients, the folks you work with, data warehouse administrators, DBAs and others, are they being, is it kind of coming to them, big data is coming to them, they're getting requests from management from the business side to start working with big data, and if that's the case, how is that kind of different from some of the other trends you've seen, where maybe it's started in the IT world? There's a lot of what we call management by airline magazine. So somebody who sits on a flight and reads the American airline magazine stuffed into the back of the seat in front of him and sees something about big data and comes back and asks the IT department, the CIO or the CTO and says, what are we doing about big data? And that becomes the motivating force. But I think what's happening is that we have matured transaction processing. We know how to do that. We can do ATM transactions. We can sell stuff. We've done that in e-commerce now. We're selling orders of magnitude goods year over year increases in a variety of different ways from your phone, from your computer and from your tablet. So what we're finding now is that companies are looking for new opportunities away from the mature that is engaging customers at a level of intimacy that they had maybe had not before. So instead of waiting for a customer to come to you and say, I want to buy a book where you sell it to me, which was the original Amazon play, it's much more about reaching out to people and saying, would you like to buy or have you considered? And that's where I think is a major change. Yeah, absolutely. That certainly resonates. So what is the impact of trying to bring these kind of technologies that support that kind of processes around reaching out to customers and the other things that big data allows you to do? How is that impacting the job of a data warehouse administrator who's running the existing data management infrastructure there? They've got to make sure the data warehouse is up all the time. It's mission critical. And now they're being asked to bring in new capabilities. How are they tackling that? What are some of the challenges and then maybe some of the ways they're adapting to these challenges? Good question. So first of all, I don't think that the traditional data warehouse is going to go away, again, drawn on my experience probably longer than I'd like to consider at this point. I remember in the 1980s when predictions were afoot as to when the last mainframe was going to be unplugged. And I remember that the over and under was 1992 as predicted by Computer World. And as we all know, there's still a lot of mainframe computers out there. A lot of big businesses are running and have been doing so very successfully for a while. So I don't think we're in a situation where the data warehouse is any more at risk than the mainframe was. I think there's a place for data warehouses for accumulating transactional data and providing it in an easily digestible format on a regular scheduled basis. I think that's going to be the role of the data warehouse. So I want to know what our quarterly reports, our daily reports, our sales, our KPIs, those types of things are still going to happen. What's going to be different is that we have looked primarily within the enterprise to build the data warehouse, as I say primarily. But we have taken our transactional data and we have modeled that and massaged that. And we have put it into a form which people can use to make business decisions. And that whole process is what's being upended now with big data, because we had a great deal of control over the metadata, the data about the descriptors of the data. What we're doing now in big data is we are determining the metadata by the data content itself on the fly as the data is coming across a Twitter feed or Facebook pages or any of a number of variety of other streaming sets of data. We are inferring what the data means by its context. And that's what's fundamentally different because before we would impose context on the data based on what we knew about where it came from or the system that it was a part of or something like that. So in the past, where you would model a data warehouse, you would basically understand and know the questions you wanted to ask ahead of time. Now we're trying to take advantage of these new technologies, the scalability, the ability to store large volumes of data that's coming in in near real time and actually make decisions much faster. And again, that involves really, as you said, not necessarily applying any kind of a schema to the data ahead of time, kind of schema on read, if you will. So again, what is the real impact? Or I should say, what are the challenges of bringing that type of technology into the existing environment? You mentioned they're not going to replace existing data warehouses. And I think that's accurate. But obviously they play together. So in terms of integrating the two technologies or the different technologies that already exist in the enterprise, what are some of the, again, what are some of the challenges and what are some of the techniques you're seeing your clients use to make that a seamless process? Or as seamless as possible, I should say. Yeah, well, I understand as easy as we can. We've all heard about all the Vs, velocity and veracity and volume of data that comprise big data and differentiated, set it apart, orders of magnitude differences in all of those things. How fast we get the data. We work with customers whose data warehouses are refreshed once a day. And we're looking at streaming feeds that need to be evaluated in the thousands of a second in order to make a business decision in terms of stock purchase arbitrage and those types of applications. So that's one of the differentiators. So what we're seeing is that we need to use different models to manage the data. And that's one of the reasons that something like Hadoop and MapReduce are so powerful or so attractive is that we're using commodity hardware. And instead of putting data into maybe a very expensive server, what we're doing is we're unleashing a whole bunch of inexpensive servers simultaneously to try to arrest that volume and velocity problem. So you're out there in the trench to share with us some success stories from your clients who are starting to really leverage this technology and actually delivering some business value with those initial big data deployments. Well, the one story I'd like to tell back in the early days of data warehousing and data mining are the old diapers and beer story about the guy who went into the convenience store after 6 p.m. to buy diapers. And what was the 70% correlation with a second product? What was the second product? Then it was beer. And this was supposed to be one of the transformational stories in data warehousing that nobody ever thought to ask the question, what do you buy with disposable diapers after 6 p.m.? But those were the types of answers that you were getting from data mining. They're the questions that you didn't know enough to ask. So one of the stories that I use was the recent resignation of Pope Benedict, a business opportunity. And I'd say that it was, first of all, black swan. No one had resigned the papacy in 600 years so nobody could anticipate it was there. But if I were a travel agency and I was monitoring Twitter feeds and I was looking for certain hashtags, I could tell by sentiment analysis that people were interested in this event and I would try to have within 24 hours a customized travel itinerary in the inbox of the people who had been tweeting about the resignation of the Pope, sending them the room for the conclave and the installation of the new Pope. So those are the types of things that would never be considered before because by the time we gathered the data and scrub the data and put it into the data warehouse and we're able to drive some actionable, some fruits from all that a week would have passed and the opportunity would have been lost. So that's again one of the big differentiators and big data. So we're gonna be able to take advantage of here and now opportunities that the traditional data warehouse is just too slow and not agile enough to react to. So what is your take on the actual technology being provided by the vendor community right now? Obviously you're very familiar with IBM's portfolio of data management products, both on the more traditional, I guess you would say data management tools and databases as well as they've got, they've been pushing very hard in the big data space with their big insights platform and their pure data system appliances. What is your take on the technology itself that's being offered by the vendor community? Is it up to I guess enterprise standards? Is it easy enough or simple enough for traditional enterprises to adopt? What is your take both IBM specifically but generally in the industry as well? Well it's a good question and I had just attended some IBM announcements at the beginning of the month at Alamedin Labs on April 3rd and one of their IBM's new offering is their pure data system for Hadoop and it is an integrated platform with all of the software necessary to access or initiate a big data analysis. IBM's big insight software which is their Hadoop distribution and then all the piece parts around Hive and HBase and all of Jackal, all of Jason, all the different pieces that you need in order to develop MapReduce applications and make them successful. So one of the questions that I asked one of the IBM executives was, okay if the value prop is I can get a whole bunch of commodity hardware together and I can make this work very cheaply, you're gonna sell an enterprise level IBM battle tested mission critical type application server, the pure data system for this purpose for Hadoop. Doesn't that subvert the whole value prop and they said the answer I got was and it was very insightful. We're there for phase two.  You see an end to end proof of concept. But you have learned from this experience how difficult it is to get all this software to work together and to get all of it configured and now you say okay we're ready to deploy to the enterprise and we're gonna start depending on this to make business decisions the same way that we depend on our data warehouse. It's gotta be backed up. It's gotta be available 24 by seven. We can't say it's gonna be down for a week because one of our commodity servers took a hard drive hit and we didn't have a replacement laying around. So how do we do that? Well, we buy the appliance from IBM, we have all the software pre-installed, we have all the hardware integrated and we're ready to run. Yeah, there's very interesting comments. You know, I particularly liked the point you made about when they're doing these kind of experiments early initial deployments with some of the early adopters as you said, they're learning while this is a lot more difficult maybe than we thought. You know, that you think of Hadoop and inexpensive running on inexpensive commodity hardware but that doesn't include the expense or the time it takes to fashion that together and to actually make it work optimally. So yeah, very interesting take from IBM and what they're doing in that space. So last question, I wonder if you could give some advice to CIOs out there who are maybe just starting with big data, they're just starting to even think about it, haven't even done those initial kind of experiments or initial deployments yet. If you can give one or two pieces of advice to those CIOs out there thinking about this, whether it's from a technology point of view or people in process point of view, what would it be? Good question. And I would say that drawing on the experience from the data warehouse, back when data warehouses started to really take hold within the enterprise back in the mid 80s and then certainly or the early 90s, one of the biggest causes of failure that we saw was that people tried to boil the ocean. I know of a number of different large institutional customers that I worked with who tried to do the comprehensive be all and end all data warehouse and they were gonna model every piece of data that they had in all their transactional systems and put it into the enterprise sized data warehouse and then they were gonna be able to get the answers that people needed in order to run the business and that was the build it and they will come model and a lot of those failed because people ran out of time and money and patience. If you have a development cycle that's gonna last 18 months to two years and you're gonna be sinking a lot of money into this effort and you don't see any payback, you may be an ex CIO sooner than you'd like. So my advice to the folks that are getting ready to embark on a big data journey is the same thing that we came to realize in the data warehousing world which is start small, reduce the time to value to something that is manageable, a business cycle quarter. You should be able to have something up and running, especially if you take advantage of some of the IBM offerings that are prepackaged and have the time to value very quickly and be able to get some return on your investment very quickly so you can demonstrate the senior management. This does have value. These are the types of, this is the type of information these are the data points that we can deliver to you that we were never able to do before. Do you want us to expand on this? And that's the way that I think you're gonna get buy-in and support and ultimately success. Okay, great, some great advice there. So Frank Fillmore from the Fillmore Group, thank you so much for joining us. They really appreciate it, some great insights and hopefully you can join us again and we can continue the conversation. I'd like to do that. This was very enjoyable. You have a good afternoon. You too. Thanks everybody.


Duragans probably help with like 90% of the people.   They live for us all. You eat organs cut out of a sentient being. It's not a superfood. But... Everyone knows about where animals come from. So you happily pay for gas chambers then. This is just footage of what you pay for. That's why I'm into grass fed stuff. But I think it's better. You don't eat grass fed chickens, bro.  I've never seen them grazing and eating grass as their primary food source. So you're killing the farmers. You're just farming the land and stuff. I don't care. They ended human slavery in America, which was the moral thing to do. And it hurt the industry. Would you rather be in a slaughterhouse or have lost your job? Preferred to do it personally. You prefer to be in there? We live in a state where you can't afford to do your job now, do you? What's up, brother? You good? Do you know what this is? I know what this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is not the type of ovulation. 75 years ago we used to read, we weren't vegan or anything like that. Nah, nah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, but most people aren't vegan now, actually.  It's not going to change anything? No, it won't. Why not? We've killed 4 billion people, that's the only reason. 8 years ago we didn't know it existed. The only reason why we have this is because of our population. So it's because there's so many people, we have to meet the demand and that's why this is happening. So how do we change that? We can't change it. We can't change it, just leave it. We design them to be happy. Yeah, exactly. They're selectively bred animals. So we're growing meat off of conscious beings. A food off of someone that doesn't want to be tortured and killed. Cutting out meat is not going to follow. Actually, personally, eating meat is actually more healthy than being vegan personally. People can all be healthy. B12 deficiency? B12 is one of them. You think I'm B12 deficiency? Where can you get B12? Do you think we have to eat it? Animals store most of the vitamins in them.  That's illogical.  If you went back in the 1920s, there were no vegan... People weren't thinking about it. If you go back far enough, slavery was normal. I don't care about what happened back then. I don't think testosterone is higher than it is now. Actually, the average person is probably about 950. At the moment, it's about 450. There's a lot of hormones in meat and dairy. Drink milk from a pregnant cow. So there's problems with... No difference between... I'd rather do milk than soil milk. Because soil milk is manufactured also heavily just so it would add to some metals. Whereas cow's milk is an infection. It's a pregnant cow with hormones... Actual mammalian...  Yeah. So if you're drinking from a cow that's just had a baby, you think there's more hormones in a cow than in a bean? A lot of people eat mammalian stuff. So any rich, for example, in meat.    Believe it or not.  Yeah, because they're not... Most people will die... Like, so civilizations won't survive. Obviously, civilization... We've adopted the agriculture we have. Of course, I find agriculture. Without that, we wouldn't have civilization. But then we still eat meat, though. So now we've got animal agriculture, right? Yeah.  Where do the plants go? Feeding the animals. Feeding the animals. So don't you think that's unsustainable? Feeding plants... I think it takes more water to use almond milk than just for anything else. And that's the problem. People go, oh, it's more healthier. I can tell you, in the elite of almond milk, it's probably more than about five almonds, compared to the rest of this is water. So how is there more water in almond milk? There is more water in almond milk. Because to grow almonds. It takes more water than just for agriculture. And that's how it is. It's one of the most water-intensive plant crops. But it still takes less water than... I'm not saying vegan diet isn't healthy. They are. But cutting out meat is in the way. But all I'm asking you is, do you think this is wrong? I think it's wrong, yeah. Because now we're getting into the woods of, like, almonds and water. It is wrong. We're off topic. I can't do anything about it. Yeah, but... So, like, right now, right? You know, there's animals being, like, harmed, and there's people being harmed. You can't do anything about it, right? But I'm just asking you. Like, you don't seem like a guy that goes around harming people and, like, animals. So, you control what you do, right? Sure, but... So, is this against your morals? It is against my morals, but there's nothing I can do about it, unless we kill 5 billion people and say, let's mouse the feed, and I'll be, that's the whole point. If everyone had your attitude, nothing would ever change. I'm not saying that this is the right thing. It isn't. You know, my grandfather's still alive. He's, like, almost 100 years from me. In my day, we never did animals like this. It's all far more than ever. Because of the...  Factory farming is only about 1950. It's increased because we had that demand to increase. That's exactly right. If we don't focus on overpopulation, this is going to carry an appetite. And whether it's accurate or not, people sitting at their turns, you know, alternatives isn't going to... It's not fixing the issue. It should come from one thing overpopulation. We're growing enough plants to feed the 80 billion land animals that are killed every single year. And with only 8 billion humans outnumber us 10 times, just the land animals. So, how inefficient is that, bro? It's very inefficient. I always say sustainable meat is always better than green. What is sustainable meat? Everyone's got to... Same dish here.  So, there's enough grass now and land. There is enough land, but we stop building and stop producing. There will be enough land. That's the issue. They have to deforest to graze cattle. The problem is, I haven't heard anything. They have to deforest to grow plants to feed the cattle and to graze the cattle. It's been a long time ago, for a long time. Deforesting to feed animals is the main driver. You're saying going to plant places is the way forward. That's what I'm saying. Well, I just want to know, if you think this is wrong, it only makes sense that you stop paying for it to happen. If I'm cutting out something from my diet just to help this, we're not solving the issue. We're just saying, don't eat this.  I'm scared I'm going to be sick, yeah. Being like some notorious... Notorious? You're saying that because it's clean up. I admit guys have been vegan for five years, even more than that. The guy in my gym has been vegan for ten years and he's come off because I've got brutal wounds. I've had problems with memory, I've had problems with B1250, I've had problems with omega-3. Do you know what an anecdote is, though? Do you know what an anecdote is? I know it's something. It's a cool story, someone said. Yeah, but do you know what the difference between an anecdote and data?  How old are you? 30. I've been eating meat for ten years. I've also been drinking milk for ten years. Believe it or not, my blood pressure's down there. My cholesterol's down there. You seem like a fit, healthy person. I'm not saying that you can't be generally healthy. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying if you think this is wrong and you can be healthy as a vegan, why aren't you a vegan? Because we're not vegan. The data shows that you can be healthy on a plant-based diet. Yeah, and you can supplement B12. Yeah, we supplement it. We supplement it. I want to see if you have supplements through the animals. What animals do you eat?  Cows, chicken, fish? No, fishes. I get most of my nutrients from the food I eat. So the chickens, where do they get the B12? They get B12 from the feed I eat, don't they? Supplements. Supplements, yeah. But I don't eat some of the great food. So you eat supplements too, bro? I don't eat great food. They give... Most of my meat I get is graphic. Yeah, so even the grass-fed beef, you know they supplement them. Because there's Colbert deficiency in the soil. You would have seen on Joe Rogan's... Okay, so... Yeah, but then Joe Rogan's probably healthy. I'm like 90% of the people who are actually... He's generally... Look, I mean... You wear a pool salad, you know, right? Or a quack. I knew I was going to say that. Quack. But he's actually healthier now when he's on a... I don't believe in carnival. I do believe in having... A lot of these carnival people say the same stuff. You're saying, bro. But I'm not a carnival person. You eat plants and that's...  If you didn't, you'd be unhealthy. But you're saying without meat, you're not going to be healthy. But you haven't provided... You said my mate, like here, and you've given anecdotes. I've been a vegan, believe it or not. And I had a dry screen of hair. But you tell it sufficiently. I actually was on... I was in hospital for about three months because I was in hospital. Because my body had just literally shut down. I've been eating everything vegan pretty much. What did she do? What did she do? I've literally been eating plant-based protein powders, tofu, cytane, OZ. What's the matter with the tofu? Literally, my body was just rejecting it because it wasn't... It's not compatible. Do you think the cancer ward or heart disease ward are filled with vegans? What? You're saying... You're saying meat cause... I'm just asking it. Who's filling up the hospitals? Yeah, but that's... You're thinking about people that are eating... Do you think meat... You think meat is like this health? No, it's processed food. That's what you're eating. You're talking about people that are in hospital. They're in processed stuff. Processed stuff from in the factory. Cutting out McDonald's pasta. Yes, it is. Cutting out steak, lean meat stuff. Because it's actually... I think steak is healthy. Do you think bacon is healthy? Yes, I think bacon is healthy. Okay. You know the World Health Organization class... Lean meat acid is one of the healthiest facts you can buy. And it also burns fat as well. Let me ask you. Do you know the World Health Organization class? I also say saturated fat is bad for you. That's been the box since the 70's. You guys were eating red meat in 70's.  Of course it is. Fat from processed food is bad for you. Like hot dogs and...  It does. There's a lot of things that you can get... Okay. You can get back from filling it up. Ethically, you agree with me, right? Because we're getting steering off into this health debate. I definitely agree. Ethically, you agree with me. Yeah, I agree. Let me just ask you this hypothetical question. Because we're not going to agree on health. Yeah. That's clear right now. If you found out you could be healthy, you could get your B12, you would think this is not justified then, hey. Because you're saying you're doing it to survive kind of thing for health. I'll be killing my heritage. I have DNA. Our ancestors would have hunted. And they would have done agriculture as well.  But why do we care? We've been hunting since the dawn of time. Yeah, but we've always killed each other too, haven't we? Human beings. Should we keep doing that? There you go. You're inconsistent there. So it's not what we've always done that matters, is it? Because when it comes to humans, we should stop all the immoral stuff.  Let me say this.   Animals with breeding, cows, sheep, and lamb and deer and stuff. Chickens. Do we eat chickens? Yeah, yeah. They're selectively bred freak shows, what they've done to them. I know. They're six weeks old. They're little babies. But it has to do with that sort of population. That's not what I can do. I mean, you tell people just don't have breeding kids. They're like, oh, I don't want to have this. But you participate in something that you're morally against. In what other context do you do that? But then if I'm quitting to a vegan diet, I'm putting my health at risk. You want to keep pumping me for the drugs and stuff? Do I look like I'm dying? How long have you been vegan? Tell me. How long have you been vegan? How long have you been vegan? How long have you been vegan? Tell me. Guess. Ten years? Nearly. Nearly nine years. Nearly nine years. Since 2013. Have you had any health problems since 2013? No.  But then I eat whole foods plant-based, and I can get in shape, and I can get 140 grams of protein. No worries. I look at chronometer. I get everything I need, because they actually supplement B12 into the plant milks anyway. And I take a multivitam to be safe, because it's England. I need vitamin D. When I switch from plant-based to actually meat-based diet, when I fall, if they actually recover faster, my others are eating all over. Do you have the same amount of calories? Yes. Did you try increasing your calories? Because when you're eating lots of plants, there's a calorie thing. I've got proteins in these as well. You've got proteins? I can't go vegan. You can't have too much fiber? No. You can design diets that are lower in fiber? I know what I'm saying. The doctor said to me, if you go vegan, you're going to get a kidney. This is why I've got it. The doctor said that. You know that's an appeal to authority. Do you know how that is? I've got an appeal to authority. There's doctors used to recommend smoking. Do you believe those doctors? What? You can't just say what my doctor said. That's the thing though. I was eating 100 grams per day. How many? 800 grams. Just to function. I'm only eating half an hour.  I'm so fine. I can't. I'm not a nutritionist or a doctor.  That hasn't been the case for me. 30% of my diet believe I'm not as meat. The rest of it is actually fine. But I still have to include meat because I still function better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not really something. But if you found out that you didn't need to, because it seems like you believe you need to. If I find out that that's the only way, then yeah, I would, but at the moment I'm not going to cross over and propose. You're worried. You're concerned about your health. Even though you believe this is wrong. Because if I cut you something out, it's not beneficial. That's what I'm talking about. Quite anything out, it's not beneficial. But in our postage stuff, it's been cutting it. Anything out, yeah. So, you know, when you make claims, you have to back it up with science. Otherwise, it's just you making a claim, and we have to believe everyone's claims other than, you know, and you're saying like your personal experience I don't believe it. I don't believe in cutting it. I'm really cutting anything out, because it's bad for you. Because people are going to cut, you say I cut that out. I still love this milk. I still love the milk. Would you cut cruelty out of your diet? If there was a cow here, right?  I'm your friend.  Yeah, yeah. No, no, I'm not saying you have to.  Wouldn't you? Well, if you had to.  If I have to, if I defend myself, yeah. And the cow?    No, I wouldn't. Why, why, why, why, why? You guys are bringing about, in terms of animal cruelty to human cruelty. There's two different things. Why are they two different things? Two different things. Because animals kill animals in the animal kingdom, believe it or not.    Yeah, we'll even shoot each other.  No, we should not. Exactly. We're actually, exactly, we're having a conversation. Yeah. And you can't expect a lion to act in a moral way. But you're pointing to nature and you're going, they do this, so we should do this. You can't tell animals don't kill these people if they eat it. Because that'd be wrong. You're saying that. They have to eat to survive. Same as we have to eat. Yeah, I'm surviving, brother.  If a chimpanzee, let me say this. If a lion was about to attack, I don't know if he got kids. Yeah. Someone's kid? Yeah. Would you say, well, this nature, who doesn't let him attack the kid? Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I would let them do, I would let them do it. Exactly. So I should eat kids then, eh? Because you can't, you wouldn't tell a lion not to eat a kid. But then compare us to lions. We're smarter than lions. Exactly. So you're right. This is what I'm saying. We're smarter than lions. We've got ethics and morals. But then would you rather, you're telling me you ever grow something in a lab to feed human beings because it's the right thing to do. To take part of all our genetic prohibition to our ancestors just because it's more than if it's wrong. When I guarantee, I'm not cutting everything off from my ancestors. I guarantee 300 or 400 years ago they were doing the same thing right now in the factory. No, no, no, no. We were doing the same thing to animals. In a weird, in a survival situation things are different, right? But we've got plant agriculture now. Right? Not sustainable, believe me. It's not sustainable because we're feeding the plants to animals. That's why it's not sustainable because some parts of you can't grow. You can't go plant in the Sahara. You can do that. We're growing enough, well somehow we're growing enough plants to feed 80 billion animals we slaughter every year. Yeah. 80 billion. Somehow we're doing that. Yeah, but somehow we've got 10 times more animals we're feeding somehow. They're fed soy and grain and all that. Somehow we've got enough food to feed them. They're saying, cut all the animals. So what's going to happen with all these animals that you guys are safe? Because eventually they'll die out eventually. Yeah, I'd rather they didn't exist like this. So you'd rather them let them die out like this and then we... I'd rather them phase out this. This is horrible what we're doing to them. It's horrible what we do to them. Imagine if we're doing this to people or dogs. Well what we're doing to environment to grow stuff in the first place. If we're growing enough to feed all these animals if we stop growing all these animals we would stop plant agriculture would greatly reduce. Let me give you some data this study out of Oxford and they said that if we all adopted a plant based diet you could reduce the earth's farmland by 75%. So 83% of the world's farmland is used for animal agriculture alone. 83%. That's the vast majority and if we all ate plants we could reduce it. We need less plants. Yeah, but are we genetic gifted? You've got to think about every human being because everyone's genetics and so on and so forth. I didn't react well to what you have to believe but you might react well but I might react well. I can't say what you did. I don't know. I can't analyse what you did. How long were you vegan for? Four years, four years. And you weren't actually vegan because you didn't do it for ethics, you did it for what did you do for health? I wanted to see what it was like to be on a vegan diet. And how long? Three or four years? Four years. You were plant based for four years? Four years. Two thousand, two thousand, two thousand, two thousand, two thousand, two thousand, six thousand? And you were still the same weight? No. I was heavy in lunch. I still struggle a lot to carry things apart. Six thousand? Six thousand a day. But I think I still have one day and I still don't eat that much. And you had Crohn's disease back then? I didn't know about it. And then when I started having bowel problems, bowel problems, I went towards that Crohn's disease. So it might be something to do with your digestion when you're absorbing something, that sounds bizarre. Six thousand weight you march. Yeah, it is too much but believe I not when you're working at Dean Morgan. I'm not eating that much, bro.  I talk to meat eaters every single day. I'm around the whole entire plant-based vegan movement. So you're talking to Joe Wilkins, so engaged with this stuff. You're talking to someone who's like, so engaged with this stuff. Joe Wilkins, the meat was Joe Wilkins, about where they'll be parked. Oh, I'd love to. I'd love to have a conversation with him. He'll just go, oh, animals dying, crop deaths.  I know all of your critiques, because I've noted them, and I've got a point for each one. But since you brought up cattle, you said that cattle, there's no evidence of cattle being fed B-12. So if you bring up flight 46. Vitamin B-12 for sheep and cattle, that's what it said. Yeah, but let me give you some of that. There was a guy that- He had amnesia about that debate. There was a vegan, strong man, believe it or not. Patrick Vivonian. Yeah, and he's not here, some of his lips, any strong man, any amateur go beat his lips. And they had all his meat face. I don't know about that. He has a world record holder. That got debunked as well. Yeah, they got debunked as well, but you all said- He was a world record holder. Yeah. So Joe Rogan got that wrong. And anyway, what you're doing is, you're saying statistically there's more meat, it is, so statistically there's going to be more- It was designed to eat meat. That's pretty much what we have. It's designed to eat meat and plants. So we're going to have an astronaut on the water. Designed to. Yeah, but on the water. You're designed to. Who designed it? God? No. Do you believe in God? No, I don't. So who designed it? But believe it or not, right? So you're saying that we're- Is it okay for me to eat dogs if we're designed to eat meat? It's okay? Is it okay? Can I do this to dogs? Is it okay? Because I need to- I'm just talking about animal products. We're going to pick and choose which one. You're trying to get by my conscious, but I have no conscious. That's not my new meat. You do, you looked at it. You said it's wrong. You already said that. It may be wrong, yes. Can't take it back now. It may be wrong, yes, what we're doing. You said it's wrong, against your morals. Eating meat's not against morals, believe it or not. You can't have meat and this not happen and animals be slaughtered. You can't have one of the other. Unless you get lab-grown meat or plant-based meat. Lab-grown meat is probably worse than actually meat probably going on this. Let's clean her. Let's talk to her. Well, they're sanitised in a lab. So they're growing cells- You're worried about that. Wait a second. So a sentient being grows meat off of their body, right? In factories. And you think that's worse than growing cells in a petri dish in a sanitised lab. That's- It's better to eat meat off of an animal in a factory. Yes. Okay? Because remember, that petri dish, you could grow a bit anything in it. I think you can never eat with any sort of bacteria growing in a lab. You could grow anything. You're going to have a COVID leak from a lab. Believe it or not. Do you think they're full of... Do you know, have you ever been in a... You haven't been in a factory farm? They're full of s***. They feed the animals, have you bought it? I'm much of a fan of that. That's why... They're dying on the floor? That's why I'm into grass-fed stuff. But I think it's better. You don't eat grass-fed chickens, bro. I eat grass-fed chickens. It's expensive, but I eat it. Where, where? It's fritisco, grass-fed stuff. It's like 20 pound for a chicken. Free-range meat chickens. Grass-fed. Grass-fed chickens. Toons don't eat grass. Yeah, they don't eat grass, but they eat. I've been in free-range shake farms, bro. I'm an investigator as well. I've never seen them grazing and eating grass as their primary food source. They're eating grains. It's one of the healthiest things on planet Earth. And it's superfood. You don't need eggs to be healthy, bro. I want to see more people playing to be vegan. And I want to see... How many more you need? How many more you need? I probably need to say, oh, I'm deficient in this. I'm deficient in that. Let me say, oh, that's cruel animals. That's 50 years. Believe it or not, since we've got humans of expanding on planet Earth. Oh, yeah, we've really evolved, haven't we? Yeah, we have evolved. We murder each other. We bomb each other. Kill children. We're a vicious, brutal species. We are a vicious, brutal species. We are very vicious. But you want to cut that out. I'm asking for compassion, which you have, which I know you have, because at the start... I'm going to carry it and eat my meat. You want to justify eating meat. And I know you don't want to give it up. That's why. It's health reason. I'm not going to give up meat. Just so something else goes, that's bad for you. That's like me going, oh, I'm not going to go to this country. This is my country. But before you said that, if you found out it was healthy, you could be healthy on plants. This would be wrong. Healthy on plants, you could be healthy on meat. You could be healthy on both. So then what's... Okay, you just told me you couldn't for like 30 minutes. You're doing animal cruelty.  You're eating plants.  I haven't gone to you. Believe me, a lot of people go to plants. You murder me once. I don't do that. You even think animal cruelty is wrong. That's the wrong thing. Doesn't mean I'm not going to stop eating. That's not the way forward. It is not. What is the way forward in your opinion? We need to either adversely stop ovulation. That is the one thing we debese. So you think keep the population as it is and keep these factory farms and that going like they are to supply it? How are you going to supply people with meat? We're not what we used to. How are you going to supply 60 billion chickens to this population as it is? Keep growing 60 billion chickens a year. So what, Britain or the whole world? So right now, the worldwide numbers is about 60 billion chickens slaughtered every year. So you think overpopulation is a problem? Yeah. So keep the population like this and keep this like this? No. If we'd limit the population, we'd actually stop doing this. So you think cull the human population? Cull them off or stop us from breeding? Stop us from breeding, yeah.  What's up breeding? Guarantee in the year, what's up breeding? What's more extreme? Stop the population from breeding or stop murdering animals by the billion? So you're thinking about 100 years time because you're running out of fossil fuel, running out of everything. So you're saying that? We should evolve past fossil fuels as well. Yeah, we should. That's not the same we've got. Yeah, we should evolve past mass murdering innocent beings as well. I love how you vegans like to debate about how it's... It's mass murder. It's not mass murder. If there's no population, there won't happen. It's mass murder. Remember, if the population was under control right now, would you be in...  I bet you'd never had a discussion quite like this. Yeah, if I'm not having to be in a vegan... Do you think we're all the same? Do you think we're all the same? No. Not everyone's the same. Some people are doing it because they like to have change. Maybe we're doing it because like, prove it, they're right. Do you think that's the motivation for most vegans? They want to prove they're right? That's the underlying agenda of vegans. Prove they're right. Hey, maybe you're right. You care about this. So you think vegans don't care about this, but you do. And we've got some other agenda. You've gone to the middle of doing what they do. Yeah, I can try it and go and see what happens because... Leave it or not.  Try to eat blood, drink blood.  But that's what I'm saying. That's them. I don't care what they do. That's them behind the cameras. That's what they do. Why should I act the way tribes act? Do you want me to go back? Do you want me to go back and should we stay in civilised society? People that actually hunt and gather are actually often people like us. They're probably in a survival situation. No, we're not. We're not. I'm not. So how do we justify it? We don't need to. But we don't need to. If we're doing something like that, we should be able to justify it. So you're saying that growing meat, eating plants is sustainable. What if you've got a family... Eating plants is much more sustainable than eating them.  We wouldn't be having a civilised discussion because we'd be caring about protecting ourselves, surviving in survival situations. Morality, we don't consider. But because we're in civilisation, we can consider morality. I mean, that means not the answer. It is for the animals. I'm sure the animals would beg to differ. All right, let me ask you, you're from Australia, right? You're from Australia, right? Back home don't eat eats. What kind of meat do you guys eat back home?  Same, same animals. Do it a wild game. They eat kangaroos, they eat. But it's chickens, pigs, the lambs, the culturally conditioned ones that people are taught to eat. You know, the ones that they've programmed us to eat. We just do it in kangaroos. Would I?  I would live in a situation with a kangaroo. If you know what? I'd live in a situation. A life or death situation? I'd live in a situation.  But to be honest, if it's me and you, I'm going to have the same answer, bro. And if it's you and me, what are you going to do? Commit suicide to save me? Oh, yeah. If I had to eat in human beings to survive, I would. That's how you got to do something. Yeah, I've seen movies like that, too. Oh, yeah, I like that. You're not in that situation, bro. Yeah. It's wrong to cut something out that's ethically wrong. No, we haven't. Ten thousand years. Ten thousand years. Ten thousand years, dairy. Dairy. It's relatively new, and most of the population is actually lactose intolerant. Yeah, that's genetic. That happens. Most of the population is lactose intolerant, because we're not baby cows. But isn't it not true that we're small? If you care about nature, why do you want to drink from cows? I think drinking milk is a good way. I think drinking milk is... Yeah, from your mumma as a baby. Doesn't make you grow, though. It makes a baby calf grow into a full-grown cow. It's specific for them. Cow's milk contains actual estrogen. You should be more scared of mammals' estrogen than plant phytoestrogens, which aren't real estrogens. They're not real estrogens, phytoestrogens. Do you tell me you'd rather drink a liter of warm milk? There's nothing in it. I drink soy or oat milk. It's just oats and water. I don't care. I just have it because it's conditioned in me to have this milky s*** on top of my cereal and my coffee. Really, I do it for a flavour. I don't do it for health. For my health, I have vegetables and fruits and whole grains. That's what I do for health. I don't drink milk for health.   I'm really gonna... But I still eat meat, though. You can't do that without blood tests. You can't do that. I don't know. You can't look at someone's shape. You're in better shape than me at the moment, for sure. I've been in better shape than I am now. Agreed. That doesn't mean you're healthy.  Yeah, but bodybuilders will say, Oh, s***, I've got to be smart. They can look. You can look at some bodybuilder and go, He looks good, you know.  He's had arteries and clogs. Athletes die of heart attacks. Arteries and clogs. So you can't look at someone and say they're healthy. You can't look at me and... Well, like I said, I eat the same food you eat. I just eat the top of that world.    I live for us all. You eat organs cut out of a sentient being. Organ meat is good for you. It's one of the healthiest food you can get. It's been signed to be proven.  Liver is good for you. It wouldn't matter if it was. I don't care. I don't need organ meats to be healthy. It wouldn't matter to me. It's unethical to cut an organ out. We already went through that. It doesn't matter if it's healthy.  I believe in all... I believe in having everything. I cut things down because I like to get... You don't believe in having everything, bro.  Would you? You wouldn't do it? But you're my protein saver. So it's only specific animals that you've been programmed to eat. Cows, lands, you told me. It's the ones that everyone tells you to eat. We can save animals, but what are we going to do with 60 billion chickens, you know? What are you going to do with them? I just don't want to mass breed them. They're breeding them into a system that only exists. It's horrible seeing that. Well, that's... If we stop demanding it, they stop breeding them and supplying it. That's how we do it. But then, holding a sexer, you're going to give people plant-based food. What if there's an outbreak, for example, and there's, you know... A lot from a factory farm? Pandemic from a factory farm?  What are you going to feed the humans then? Different situation, brother. We already talked about survival. We wouldn't be having a civilized discussion about morality. How many people have you converted today to civilized... Today? How many people have you converted? I can't calculate it because I've got 200 million views on social media. Wow. 200 million. That's a decent amount. Not everyone believes... Not everyone is... You consume different media to me. You listen to Joe Rogan, Paul Saladino, Libber King, and this and that, which I get it. Libber King's a bit wacko, but he's healthy to move forward. We're just living different wives. You consume different content to me. Right? But I'm asking you this to choose... Think with your heart instead of what you've been programmed. That's all I'm asking you to do. Well, look at these. Look at this. This is a gas chamber, bro. Yeah, but I'm saying...  Do you think that's bad? Animal is animal. We bred them for reasons. Is it okay that they suffer in gas chambers? It can happen anyway.  We've been killing animals for the last couple of thousand years. We've been killing each other for that long. I don't care what we've always done. I'm asking you if that's okay. Look at this. Let's see worlds where... Look at that. Let's go back to their old hunter-gatherer situation. Is that... What does that feel to you? Like watching them suffer in that chamber? You just try to... We try to... You've got to get attached to my emotions. Don't... Unfortunately have so... No, you're trying to hide from that, but that is the reality. That's 85% of pigs in the UK are being killed like this. I'm very much aware of what pigs do to pigs. So, when you... Still stopping me knowing for me and me, is it? I'm feeling that you need... I'm not... I'm not blinding stuff. I just like you need It's bad. It's not good to cut things out because something's bad to you. No, I'm just saying it's bad for the animals. That's all I'm saying right now. It's bad for the animals. It's bad for the pigs looking at them trying to struggle to get out of that chamber. Yeah, but then it's bad for us. She needs to overpopulate the planet Earth. Buildings everywhere. I'm not talking about that right now. I'm just talking about you when you buy bacon. This is what happens to pigs. I'm like, I can eat my bacon. I like bacon.  I would love to eat out of your bacon. I believe I'm a healthy man, so... Bacon is healthy. It's good for you. Linear gases. Oh, linear gases, sorry. It's good for you. So you can't live without bacon if you think that gas chambers are justified because of the health benefits you get from it, yeah? It's good for you. It's good for you. So because of the health benefits this is justified. I'm just trying to get it straight. I want to know your argument properly.  That's okay. What we're saying to your 100% plan, this one, the fact that you guys are going on TV just to prove a point is more funny than me telling you are giving you wacko ideas and you're trying to appeal to the masses about having suddenly we need to do other animals. We've been raising animals for 100 years. We've been doing the same thing. If you asked somebody for 500 years ago, would you not care animal? No, they would. 500 years ago, we were literally enslaving other people. Yeah, we were saying about people with sweet meat, though.  Sweet meat, though. We're doing other horrible things. We're doing other horrible things. We're doing other horrible things. Believe it or not, we had an 80% plan based that back then and we sweet meat. But people don't talk about that and they say, I'm not asking you to eat. I'm cutting that stuff out to someone sitting with or that's unethical. If it's not coming to it. If it's not coming to it. If it's not coming to it. If it's not coming to it. If it's not coming to it. At the start of the conversation, you said this was wrong. It's wrong. You've got to put it on screen. Why was it wrong? If it's not coming to it. You could put it in common guy in a forever way to see. We don't need to see that. This is just footage of what you pay for. That's all it is. It's just people who've left cameras, what they hide from the public. I want to see what happens because I pay you what? A vegan farm. Because remember, I'm selling farm zans in China when they raise stuff. They got all kinds of things. You don't show that.  Yeah. Most of the crops have been fed to animals. So to reduce that harm, eat the crops directly.  I don't care. But you're saying the kids People relied on human slavery back then. You're saying kill someone's business because you find it. I honestly don't care. They ended human slavery in America, it was a right thing to do. And it hurt the industry. Because we chose morals. Or we were quick to choose those people. It hurt the industry because they had to pay people then. Didn't they? And that was the right thing to do. It's wrong to do this to animals. And I don't care how many people lose their jobs over it. They can find other jobs. This is way worse than them losing a job. It is. Because would you rather be in a slaughterhouse or have lost your job? You prefer to be in there? We live in a state where you can't afford to lose your job nowadays. You're telling people lose your job, don't you? That's the most worse thing to do. I've changed jobs about six times in my life and nothing happened. Farmers are business people. They're doing this because it's a business. Are you saying just because you lose your business that's worse than getting slaughtered in a gas chamber? I don't care how many people rely on murdering and torturing and killing. I care if it's wrong or not. I don't care if it's wrong or not. The Hindus don't even kill cows, the dairy industry. I don't need worship cows. They've been cows to their God. The dairy industry is actually probably worse welfare-wise in India than it is in the UK. They kill all those cows, by the way. They send them... India is one of the biggest exporters of beef and leather. Is that wrong? Yeah, it's wrong. Are they...? You were saying to a villager who survives and that kind of milk to grow and survive to cut right out because you guys we're from West support, believe it or not. It's the Westerners that believe in stuff. Maybe it's right because they're doing it to survive.  I spoke to a lot of tourists here. A lot of people travel here. They look at this and think it's wrong too. Maybe wrong, but stuff you can do about it. I'm doing something. You can do something. Killing industry and then what? And then cause another pandemic because vegan suddenly goes, that's the wrong thing. Should we end the Euland dog-eating festival? Do you know the Euland dog-eating festival? So what they do is, what do you say? That's not right, that's not right.  But it's what should we do about it? What should we do about it? It's called designed to be eaten and bread and milk. There's dog farms in different countries too. And is it okay to farm dogs? You're telling me a whole country to stop doing their ethics because you find it wrong. I'm just asking you if they were dogs like they are in Euland. You just said that's wrong. It is wrong. So why is it wrong? To rely on meat to eat? Cows are also domesticated. I'm just asking you what is the difference between Euland dog-eating festival? No, no, no. We have to stay here because you're going to try to avoid it. What is the difference between Euland and this? No difference. So why is one wrong and one not? Because the picture and cows are designed to be the agriculture animal. There are dog farms in South Korea there are dog farms where they breed them to eat them. We're not soft-breed. I'm just saying I'm trying to bring yourself and you're trying to avoid it a little bit with the health thing which is okay.  You think one animal was wrong to kill and another animal who's nearly exactly the same except for the way they look is fine to kill.  I'm still healthy I know doesn't mean I want to beat up because some of them are never clean. You know we're going to circle so I think right now we should just agree to disagree because we're going back to the same it's like we're circling back so we're not progressing veganism is moral and wrong people telling you not to eat meat because it's unethical it's the worst if you do someone I'm not going to tell someone what to eat meat you choose what you choose you choose to eat meat you choose what you eat meat I'm a guy it's 70% plant based believe it or not am I healthy? yeah whole food should be the way forward not eating one one side one side because once carnivore vegan that's all wrong we should be eating everything even cutting grains out is even better for you personally if I'm really going to survive but in the end of the day you're sitting there telling people don't eat meat because we're doing this we're doing this because of a population because we decided to multiply our extraordinary we like rabbits we just multiply if we cut that out we say look we adopt a few thousand people we cut the population by half we won't do this anymore we won't kill animals anymore we won't need to kill half of the animals because we won't need to do that we would kill half of the amount of animals I don't think it yeah, I don't want that mate. I don't want to kill because we kill half the animals now It's like 1.5 trillion instead of three So quite a lot more than to read this screen. It's in the day. Why are you what you eat? I meet my diet. I'm still healthy. I don't care about health We're not having a health discussion because you always want to bring it there because that's what it That's what veganism is that is what that's exactly what veganism is veganism is an ethical Rise from the 1970s whatever on bees about 1944 No, there was no vegan in fighty 44 There's no studies from that people eat me in the big Donald Watson founded veganism in 1944 In 19 for November 1944 British woodworker named Donald Watson and ours you're telling a vegan when veganism was found This is pretty cool. We didn't have meat. It was not available. It's just after World War two when they were gas chambering in human beings very much Now we're gas chambering Other and torturing and murdering way more animals than we ever have We learned nothing. It's a thing. It's we learned nothing from these atrocities Everyone else is wrong. You're doing this. How many meat is a few minutes? Oh, you're doing this humans have learned nothing from the atrocities of the past We've learned nothing. We're hypocrites. Yeah, we are we do things to animals We'd never want done to us we're violent creatures and we need to learn and so So anyway, let me do my final thoughts. Yeah, doesn't matter if it's uh, you can be healthy eating meat It's beside my point. We shouldn't be doing this to uh, billions of animals And I'm just gonna say it's no we do a better way. Yes, you'll find better.  There is a better way No, I don't You just don't want to admit that there is a better way. There's not a humane way There is a humane way There's not a humane way if you're suffering yes to put you out of here You don't want to meet the fact that eating meat is right. Is there a true name way to murder? What is going to do with it? It's millions of years millions of years Are you gonna answer answers please don't eat meat because it's wrong I'm just saying this is the problem and this is how you solve it.  What's gonna happen in? No, bro. I'm having a problem. I've just spent over an hour trying to convince you that stabbing animals to death is wrong I'm eating what I'm supposed to be I'm just saying I'm going to have a very hard time convincing every single person here If this is the the pushback I get whenever I say hey, this is wrong stop doing it I think some of you think it's a little bit crazy in all ways Yeah, but your your world. Oh, there is What's crazy about my position? Just tell me because you're trying to build my emotional side I'm using this when we know about I know I'm very much So you shouldn't have an emotional reaction because I really know about this I'm just trying to put you I I'm I know about this You knew about gas chambers. I'm very much aware of it, mate So you happily pay for gas chambers then? Wait, I've been Human we know about everyone knows about where animals come from. We're very much aware of this Most people don't man.  You don't appeal to my saying go away mom It's not random to hundreds of years. It makes a difference what we do because you guys are gonna go. Oh, it's everything It's wrong But you're gonna everything is wrong.  I don't eat honey. No, we don't Good superfood though, isn't it? It's not vegan. It's not a superfood And it's it's be vomit provide Some research on it being a superfood be pollen. I don't live a king is not a good source Paul Saladino is not a good source. I think that was is a is a form of evening and turned to an animal It's an appeal to a thriving healthy now and he's also I don't care.  He lost and I worry Well, that's one person he got embarrassed by the data But chris first of all you have admitted that you don't even know how to read the science Is that fair? Do you honestly feel qualified to to read even a single paper? Yes But you don't know how to read a forest plot Yeah, by the data embarrassing because he's a carnival. That's what he's gonna be mad for Chris crescent is not a carnival. He's not he's not he's same as you whole foods plants and meat That's what he advocates doesn't mean help chris cap crescent advocates whole foods omnivorous diet. Yeah, so you're not healthy though I don't know I don't care. It's beside my point It's beside my point. I've just said this the health thing's beside the point But anyways, we have to stop. It's too long. We've gone too long, brother I really appreciate your time, man. I really enjoy those discussions. Hey, try not convince everyone He's got it. It looks like you're doing a good job. Yeah Not everyone's as difficult as you but that's why that's why we have discussions I'm a caring eating meat because that's what I was saying. Do you really want to hold on to it? I know that one day you'll let go one day. I'll never maybe you need a wash go something Have a spiritual awakening or something. That's good working enough leaving me. It's a great way It's eating whole foods meat and plants Peace brother. Take care of my friend. There's two girls right here for hours to talk to you. Uh, hello. How are you? Do you help me go vegan really five years? Five years. Yeah Three years to 2017 I was vegetarian for nine years. Watch my videos in 2017. I don't uh, so you must have. Yeah. Wow You're like one of the first actives. You and Arthuring Edd's Wow, amazing. That's good. Can we get a photo? Of course you can. Yeah, yeah You can both have one and say oh one each. It's okay. I don't mind either either whatever you want It's great. Thank you. No worries. Good to meet you. She's got good work. Thanks for coming up and saying hello Bye