to Friday bingo seems like it's been a while since we've had Friday bingo and I'd like to welcome David and David's gonna be our tour guide today, which I love even more Welcome David. So David has brought to us today the 15 nations tour and the reason why this is very Interesting that he brought us today's for those of you that have signed up for wiki tree games That's coming up as well. So we're just talking globally today all day for both bingo's We're talking globally. I have got the bingo card already Loaded in the chat for the very first one. Thank you guys for joining us today as well as The pages there's two pages for the 15 nations tour. So let me bring up the first one David and What is the 15 nations tour? Okay, the 15 nations tour For those that are not familiar with it. We started up back in January One of our members one of our wiki tree members posted a g2g Inquiry asking if we could highlight The leaders of the world the current leaders of the world and we thought that was a cool idea until It occurred to us that the leaders of the world are all living notables Which means nobody could access their profiles except those that are on the trusted list so we played around with it and we thought in honor of wiki trees 15th birthday, which is coming up in November And we're celebrating throughout the year. We would choose 15 nations And for each of those nations, we would choose 15 notables and we would try to we would create their profiles Make connections when we can add family members when we can develop the profiles and these countries that we have chosen are Countries that you typically would not find Not only on wiki tree where they have a low presence but around the genealogical community You can see there's some of the first countries India Ukraine Kenya If you go to ancestry if you go to family search, you're not going to find a lot of Kenyan records so this the challenge here is to take a country that we know nothing about and Figure it out figure out not only the history Determining 15 notables from these countries and then how do we do genealogical research and It's been a real adventure. We're now on our 12th country, but I'm sorry. We're on our 11th country, which is Syria and again, I Would venture to guess that most wiki tree years do not know a lot about Syrian genealogy and Those of us that are on the team including myself know zero about Syrian genealogy, but we go in and we Like said, we figure it out. I think you don't have to know anything about the country How to research it David gives you a list of names as well So you don't have to go find somebody he makes it real easy for you And I think that's important to point out that you know, everybody's kind of flying in here in learning As you go and you've got a couple more to come up and we've got we've got four more We do them for three weeks So we still have 12 weeks left our last day is going to be on wiki tree day That's when we'll wrap it up and then we got some surprises that we'll talk about a little bit later this evening About what's coming up after the 15 nations are completed after we've done our 15th nation We've got some ideas in the works for For a big surprise big surprise. Yeah, so you guys You got to tune in tonight if you want to hear the big surprise But yeah, and as you were saying you don't have to know anything coming in if you're interested in learning something new Every three weeks. I pick another country and I don't tell anybody in advance On the third Tuesday, I we do our wrap-up tour of we'll do a wrap-up tour of Syria in another Week and a half or so And during that wrap-up tour on YouTube, I announce what our next country is going to be and who the 50 notables are So even our team that's been with us from the beginning Have no idea where we're going after Syria Parted that literally the first few days of the year so you've been doing this for a while with the team Yeah, we started on January 2nd The the next four have you already I know that okay at this point the answer is yes, I did not well the answer is Pretty much. Yes. I did not know I did not plan 15 countries in advance I've been I've been playing it by ear at the United Nations Interestingly enough divides the world into 15 regions So that worked out real well for me in narrowing it down I I picked one from each region What I do is as we're going through the three weeks, I pick the next country from that region and Some of it has to do with what we've been doing if we've been doing for example Arabic research Which is Really not as difficult as it sounds But then I go to another region and it happens to also be Arabic I may push that back because we just you know, we just finished that so maybe we'll go to Latin America instead or we'll go up You know to Africa or whatever so I try to move it around a little bit and Usually I know I've only known up to the last Maybe the second week of a tour I picked the next The end and I've only got a few left. I kind of have planned You know how we're gonna wrap it up. So I think I Know however, here's here's the deal with that since I don't know anything about these countries I pick a country and I go find 15 notables I've run into a problem where I can't find 15 notables for a particular country and I've had to switch country I said the last minute because What we think of as notables I do try to keep a variety we can talk about that but a variety of careers and and Claims to fame so you're not gonna find 15 politicians. You're gonna find some actors some sports heroes scientists authors Archaeologists all kinds of things of spores Some of these newer countries or They're not newer countries, but they're newer Well, they may be officially newer countries, although they may have been around for hundreds of years and some as a colony You know in some sort of other entity, but a lot of countries For example, if you'll just scroll down a little And I'll show you now India and Argentina have been around a long time that India didn't gain its independence from England until I believe the 1960s Argentina was a colony Ukraine has only been around since the 1990s They were part of the Soviet Union Now Kenya is a country that's been around for hundreds of years in one entity or another, however They didn't have sports heroes and actors and actresses and scientists Up until very recently and a lot of those are still living So trying to find we only work with well not once I only we primarily try to work with deceased individuals for privacy and Access reasons. Hey, let me let me pause you real quick So as you know that David is a project lead with Scott on the notable So while you're here, we are talking about the 15 nations tour But he's also talking about finding notables for those countries So anybody has a quick question about notables as well Go ahead and feel free to drop it in chat because I love it when David comes He can answer a lot of different questions for us not just the 15 nations tour that we're talking about but don't forget David also revitalized brought back to life the US governor's project as well and the he started Gosh has it been two months now this sports notables So if you have a question about notables in general feel free to drop it in the chat And we'll make sure that we see it But I can see where it could be difficult because notables from wiki tree do pull from Wikipedia and Some of the smaller countries Probably the priorities of creating there are notables on Wikipedia is low You know as opposed to us if there's a rock star or pop star is on Wikipedia in ten seconds flat So I can imagine where that's challenging So so Scott I joined Scott focus on on the notables. I think back in January earlier this year at some point And prior to that Scott was running the thing by himself and that was just overwhelming so Scott has asked me to come in and focus on bringing more activities to the notables Scott's primary role and it's amazing how time-consuming this turns out to be Yeah, he's been doing Overseas the living I mean we both do but he's more and he he kind of takes that role of overseeing the living notables We get dozens of emails every day of people wanting to be on the trusted list The rules for the trusted list are basically you can you can get on the trusted list for one of two reasons Either you're an immediate family member and you could prove it Or you have a very specific reason Typically working with a project, you know our our Australia project is working on developing this profile Can I have access and that and we will probably give you access for that reason? But we get dozens of calls saying I'm a 14th cousin. Can I get on the trusted list? Well, there's no reason to be on the trusted list. You can see everything their open profiles Um When some when Tina Turner died we must have had 25 cousins tell ask us for access We get people for Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and you know, I think this I think Elvis is still alive I think So we get all kinds of stuff like that And Scott is in charge of deciding who gets in and who gets out. The other thing is a lot of people will will have genuine Information to give us and they'll say I found the parents Can you connect them? They don't need to be on the trusted list, but they'll give us the links And then Scott goes in and fixes those but again, we get we get a dozen of those messages every day Which for one day is not maybe a lot but when it's day after day after day, it's it's a lot So when Scott was doing that all by himself, he really didn't have time to do any kind of projects or challenges So anyway, that's something that we're focusing on and we're kind of in our infancy of doing that But as Sandy mentioned, we've got the governor's project, which is actually under its notables But it's under the United States project heading but We have the sports project where we've done baseball. We're currently doing a tennis challenge We have an individual who's created a The pro wrestling challenge Yeah, we're connecting some of the legendary WWF WWE and I will tell you the Appalachia project brought some NASCARs Two drivers to this month with our challenge. So I'm sports Yeah, Sandy's working on some hockey stuff We've got a member working on some Super Bowl football So the sports is going really well and we have a little less well-known new project of it's an entertainment project where we got links to various We've got a hair. I think a Harry Potter link and a Star Trek link they're just run by individual members and We've also been doing some challenges on classic TV stars. So you might see that on G to G Most of us know you from Disney Say that one Yeah, Disney's been a little quiet, but that was why I got started was The classic Disney project, which is also linked under our entertainers And we we focus on the voice actors for each of the I think it's the first 18 films from Snow White up to I don't recall at this point. I think it was Winnie the Pooh was the last 1970s so basically anything prior to Anything prior to where I grew up and wasn't interested Now and I will point out to you with notables once a notable disease is deceased Literally somebody's on G to G saying hey open them up. You guys do open up that profile. So you guys hear that You know if you're living notable It's locked but as soon as they're deceased literally that day I've gone and seen you guys open them up like within 30 minutes 60 minutes Yeah, so so we have some individuals that before I joined the project I didn't quite understand this but on G to G if you follow our link you'll see individuals that post So-and-so died today so-and-so died today When I first saw that I thought you know, this is an awfully morbid group Yeah, so so focused on who's dead But but that's why is what they're doing is notifying us to open up that The profile and the the way our members view at different people have different opinions But they want to honor these people somebody famous has passed away and they want to make sure that they get their profile Properly developed and get them connected and it's a way of it's a tribute to them I think so so yeah, and that's another thing that Scott Overseas every time a famous person passes away He goes in and opens it now Sometimes if it's a superstar like Tina Turner where we start getting all those cousins wanting We'll we'll keep it locked for a while and then there are some and I couldn't tell you off the top of my head But some controversial profiles that and it's it's a very small number, but um that we keep closed indefinitely if they're not Kept by another project, but something like that No, this too I couldn't say for sure, but I would imagine that's one the type where you start to get conspiracy theories and different things written on there Maybe a Michael Jackson those kinds again I couldn't tell you for sure if those are are locked or not You can still see them You just can't edit them and if you want to edit them You have serious edits to make you just let us know and we can Discuss giving you access or we can put the information in for you So there's ways around it. But um It's it's really to prevent vandalism because even though most members are you know are going to be responsible You know wiki trees open to the public so anybody can come in and come in and start making changes and you know We don't want we don't want that so But again, that's very rare that we But you have well let's answer 50s question too So how the since you picked notables for these countries for the 15-inch and tour how do you choose the notables? Is their criteria? so um Okay, so when I opened up with India there were criteria at this point. I've thrown all the criteria It just didn't work now this is for the 15 nation tour only though, right? This is the 15 nations tour. Yes Criteria there is there is criteria for notables. We'll talk about both So you have to why'd we throw the the criteria out for India? for India, okay, so You know, I don't know 15 famous people that are India. No one of the criteria is they have to be born in India so um With very few exceptions one or two throughout the whole tour um We're not doing people who were um born somewhere else and moved to India And I try to keep them people that we became famous in India So not just happened to be born there and then moved to the united states and became famous the united states Again, I've made exceptions, but back when I was doing India. That was kind of the criteria So these are all people that were born and became famous in India. Most of them probably died in India at that point they um Again for the most part have to be deceased the The exceptions to that is I always put the current head of state and the head of government So in India's case, they have a prime minister and a president who are living And that was based on the initial request of the member that proposed this whole thing um We didn't want to keep it strictly living people but we do throw them in there We try to get the parents on the wiki tree and that way it's you know, it gets accessible And we've had some success with that interestingly, we've talked about this Previously on our on our wiki tree present, I mean on our 15 nations presentations that The world leaders seem to be the hardest ones to connect and I think worldwide There is a much greater tendency to For politicians to keep their personal life private than we have in the united states It keeps their mystique up if you know that they're just like everybody else You may not be as uh submissive to their Demands which we um Try to to steer against in the united states and we know just about everything there is to know about our politicians if we choose to um And our whole premise is that our politicians are just like everybody else theoretically Um, that's not the case in other countries. For example in in russia Vladimir Putin, you know very little about his Personal life except what he wants you to know So he'll put pictures of himself out there Doing all his athletics and those kinds of things because that's what he wants you to know about him He doesn't want you to know about his marital problems about the conflicts He has with his children or his crazy brother Um sisters ex-husband or whatever, you know those things that come up in our politics Just just of course. That's all you got. It's just a source. Then no no fantastic biography You can only put so much of the facts For for the the leaders Yeah, I'm sorry. I missed understood. Yeah for like Putin. You can't really go into a lot of details I imagine Because he doesn't want it known either. Yeah. Yeah, so it just depends on Yeah, it just depends on what sources are out there. They're harder to find sometimes they are Um, you know, sometimes we can find them But but my overall point was that it's the leaders that seem to be the least our least successful Um, in terms of connections within at least successful with our world leaders the names you might know the most Have actually been harder to connect than some of the lesser known So going back to the original questions, how do I figure out the 15 notables? The first thing I do is google um famous People in india or famous argentines or whatever country see what comes up on google In time i've come up with a few websites that um, you can do searches for famous people from different countries Google um, not google wiki wikipedia post the number of languages that a famous person or that a notable um You know that their that their profile appears in if they have one or two pages. Maybe they're not as famous um And which means that their information is not going to be it's available Um, but if they've got 25 pages Um, you know, a lot of these people that i've never heard of Are not famous necessarily in the united states But they are famous worldwide Um, if you look i go to one site that that measures the matrixes on wikipedia And determines who the most famous people are based on the number of hits and languages the most famous president of the united states Worldwide is jimmy carter Really and yes, because jimmy carter goes around the world with have a chat for humanity And they know i'm all around the world um The ones in our country they're famous, but um, you know people In in the villages and small towns around the world really don't care about our politics as much as we think they do Now let me let me pause for a second now We're again, I just want to mention that david's talking about how he picks for the 15 nations tour because this is a little different Let's say that you're working with some of the more populated countries england, scotland, canada um us, mexico You know some of the larger ones. What is for the notables project in general? What are the basic criteria to make a person's profile? notable So we have two types of notables We have notables or basically and we have living notables. So basically deceased notables and living notables The criteria is different. Um, they're similar a bit different. Um The to be a notable The general the simplest way to know if somebody's notable is they have a wikipedia page And that can be in any language. So when i'm doing say, um, ukrainian notables I may not find a page on the english wikipedia But if I go over to the ukrainian wikipedia, um, and they've got a page there, then they're considered notable um now A little more detailed explanation of that is The rule actually states that they have to be eligible for a wikipedia page So if you've got a famous person who doesn't have a page But they on wikipedia, but they should it's just nobody's created it yet But they meet all of wikipedia's criteria Then they meet our criteria as well. Um It doesn't come up much that you find a famous person that doesn't have a wikipedia page But if you feel that you do you can um look through the criteria on wikipedia and um, and then contact either scott or myself and and we'll let you know if the person qualifies um That's really the only criteria now The flip side of that also though is if you see a famous person with a page on wikipedia And let's say it's got one. Um, maybe a two sentence biography and it's got one language um Anybody can post on wikipedia or not anybody but if you meet their criteria you can post on wikipedia And some people put up profiles that are not necessarily that don't meet wikipedia standards And they will generally come down after a while but it takes a while for wikipedia to figure it out and and Go through their process and stuff. So there are people who appear on wikipedia who do not qualify for wikipedia's own Criteria and therefore don't qualify for ours We find that mostly with um colonists Who didn't do anything necessarily? um notable other than immigrate to the United states or colonial america people will post ancestors and um, you know, he was the founder of this small town in connecticut or whatever and um You know, that's impressive in and of itself But it doesn't doesn't mean the criteria for for notability One wikipedia either you'll see that name on the town's wikipedia page But that does not qualify for that person To be a notable on wikytree I've had a lot of that question too, but they're on this page and I would go look at it And it's the name of the town Or something like that or you know, it could even be in sports sometimes We see that for newer sports. They haven't made their name yet Yeah, just making the hockey team or whatever doesn't make them a notable They have to do something You know notable, you know beyond getting beyond getting hired And I will say this through because I worked on um in the disasters project and just because they were in a famous Let's say airplane crash. I'm sorry. This is kind of morbid, but this came up to to me this year the people that that passed away were Famous because they passed away in that crash, but they do not have their own wikipedia page But they have a page a wikipedia page that details the airplane crash and for those of you That know a little bit about us. I'm talking about the marshal university plane crash So scott was really fantastic walking us through our project through that because no We can't claim every football player that died in that crash as a notable They were on a wikipedia page But not an individual one right We get that historically we get that with um shipwrecks Yeah, not everybody on a famous shipwreck the lucitania. Let's say not every passenger is notable the event was notable Passengers themselves may or may not have been I love how you said that So listen what he said the event was notable So that that was you know, that's pretty brilliant too Kind of and the same was as I mentioned the colonists, you know The colonists as a whole the american colonists i'm referring to um You know the the colonists as a whole were were notable, but each individual does not necessarily have that um Um, and there's kathy saying hi. I just referred to kathy's um, I know super bowl project coming up, so Kathy's been going Really fantastic job one on the super bowl that is a lot of detail that she put on there Okay, you guys ready to play some bingo I think ever let me post and when we come back. I do want to touch on the um the living notables Okay, good the criteria for that And uh, I just want to make sure if everybody will double check that you do have this correct bingo card I I might have accidentally um labeled An earlier link So just make sure that you have the one that ends in e 6a And we will go ahead and switch over to the bingo This should be it. There we go Same rules as always guys, and if you're new welcome to our bingo What's going to happen is you're going to take that card that link bring it up and use your mouse as the dabbler There are no free spaces in any of the games that you see today because there's so much good stuff here That I didn't want to waste a little square what you need to do to get bingo is vertical diagonal horizontal, and you just want you don't need all of them just dab if you click on A square and you did not mean to just click on it again and it will remove it If you've won in the past six months, you are not eligible to win until your six month anniversary from your last win And I do have a uh sheet that has that information But i'm also relying on you guys as well The first person who gets the bingo and screams it at me in the bingo chat is the winner And I just want to point out that for I believe it's going to be wiki tree games That you guys that know how to scream out bingo You will have a head start for wiki tree games hangouts. So i'll just leave that to be a surprise. Okay, david. Let's go ahead and These are all names of notables Yes, and on the 15 nations just to pull up my My list here. I'm sorry. I should have been prepared here um So for those that don't know the behind the scenes of bingo We only typically probably get 15 20 names before somebody wins But sandy makes me come up with 50 50 words I have to remember what all these things mean But i'm going to pull up my list because i'm trying to remember and tenor firman was I feel this can be one minute. I'm sorry about this And while you're doing that, I'll also point out john um tiner my power Has a very good point. He does have a coach builder ancestor when I see coach builder I mean he built for the king and quaint their coach. He's not just building a coach for You know every normal little person out here. He built for the king quaint The page the company has a wikipedia page, but his ancestor does not so that means his ancestors Not notable, but the company is Thanks john so i'm ready and um basically, um One one little piece of information or two is you know, I put these individuals up and I kind of typically back off and my team puts them all together so, um I'm not necessarily active in all of these Putting these biographies together. I have a really solid team of people that you do the research So if i'm a little rusty on some of the the individuals, that's why it's because I didn't necessarily work on these profiles, but um and tenor firman He was a anthropologist in Haiti during um, he died in 1911. So he was Working in the 1800s.  I'm like, what's the mean? I know I gave you the name Well, that's all right. Well, we will move there is. Oh, of course. All right. So here's the reason. I don't know him Um, so he was the first president of panama Oh, um and in and of himself. He wasn't all that famous but his wife um, so the first flag of of um Panama and his son wrote the national anthem and when he died Um, they moved to paris. They were exiled basically to paris and then um his wife moved to north carolina So his wife kind of became a southern belle and he's got a his family's all still back there in north carolina And that's how we made the the connection Constantine and ricas was a um Olympic athlete from Haiti and he went to france and participated on the um, I believe it was the cricket team if um Yeah, I believe it was cricket. Um, but he was the very first black Olympic gold medal winner. So cool. Um carlo severa And he was I believe I thought I had these down better. Um Oh, he was the very first latin american to win a nobel peace prize Oh, I wanted to tell you, um, we didn't say this up front every one of these names. Um, our team connected to the To the big tree So, um, these are not the people that we're still working on. We've connected about um a third of our notables Um, and again, these are all very obscure countries. We're working and so that's pretty pretty impressed Kudos to the team on these. Um, jose maria sabral So he was oh, okay. He was an arctic explorer. He was from argentina And during the 1800s he was one of the first, um Individuals to To visit antarctica Jacques romain I'm so glad you're saying the names yes um, I don't know a lot about him other than he was a He was a argentine. Um, no, I'm sorry. He was but he was Haitian. He was a Haitian author He was a marxist author Back when marxism was kind of in its infancy and that was that was a trend back then Um, michelle, I think most people do know michelle Now this is an example. We'll talk afterwards about our living notables Um, I made an exception for she's malaysian um And when we were doing malaysian notables like she had just won the academy award the week before We went to malaysia and I thought there's no way we cannot. I agree Attach her so we and we got her attached one other thing I will say she comes from a little village in malaysia and her cousin has opened up a um Family museum It's an actual full museum dedicated strictly to their family And people pay admission to come in and look at the family tree and their old pictures because she comes from a very notable family in her malaysian community their um Mayors and you know local leaders and and prominent people so um This name i'm going to just say as huda huda. Yeah, let's say the last name And you want to be probably recognize this name too Yes, yes, she was um the Try to look at her dates here. Yeah, she was in the early um 1900 she was a feminist leader in egypt and um She married one of her children married um a princess the um The uh daughter of the grand daughter I think of the king and so we were able to connect her through the royal family That's like a double notable a royal And this is something you'll find with all of our not all of her but the vast majority of our notables are related to other notables We don't know in fact Some of our notables when I picked the 15 have been related to each other and I had no clue They might be second or third cousins. Wow, but we've traced into the same You know two Haitian notables both have the same great grandfather who that we've traced to the united states or england or whatever So the um the path winds up overlapping and that's been pretty cool I think we actually had three that were related to each other. Um when we were doing um Panama, I believe it was So that was it. Did I do thomas day harara? No, let's see who is thomas day harara I believe he's one of our early ones. Yes. Oh, okay. So he um, so I we did the president of panama. I mentioned he was the president of what was called the um The state of the isthmus and the republic of new granada. That was the precursor to cana at a panama so he was um Very briefly in office, but he um and a very short-lived, um Notable country A dr. Yvonne sylvan sylvane, I believe her it's chris. She's one who was related to our other um Notables she herself was the first female physician in Haiti And if I recall the marx's author we talked about momentarily though They were distantly related. So we made the connection for both of them at the same time Cincinnati's le cunt. He was a president of Haiti and the reason that I chose him We we tried to if we can um Connect with other projects Cincinnati's le cunt had a son who um, he sent to france And this is the 1800s or earlier. I'm sorry. This is an early 1900s because this would have been 1912 Where he um, if you know 1912 you might be guessing what other project we connected to He was sent to france and he didn't do well in france So his dad got him a job back in Haiti said get on the ship come back to Haiti So they got a first class ticket. They're an african-american family, but the rumor has that they were able to pose as Southern european italian or or some of this they got a first class ticket But on this trip they were told It was his wife and two young daughters They were told you can't you can't sit with your children during meals. I don't know why but that's what they were told They said well, then no, we're gonna we're gonna switch to a second class ticket They said well, we don't have any second class tickets on this ship But we can put you on the other this other ship here called the titanic I don't know I knew you're gonna go there. Oh, no I said, you know 1912 They were the only african or black family On the titanic. Oh my goodness and sadly he was killed. He did not survive but his wife and daughters did and they went back to They went back to Haiti I don't know if they ever actually made it back to Haiti But um the offer for his son to come back apparently didn't Transfer to his wife and his grandchildren. So they wound up going back to france And eventually ended up in the united states. So that's how we made our connections but um, but we were able to connect it to the um To the titanic project. That's our second titanic Um passenger or family that you all know how I say this a lot and this was a surprise to me But this is the power wiki tree. You never know David starts this project at the beginning of the year doesn't really know which country is going to pick once he picks Country doesn't know the notables is going to pick and boom You're going back and you're working with other projects and you're coming out with fantastic stories too If you're a history lover, I've always said this since the very beginning of the year if you're a history lover This project's for you because you can learn so much about other cultures Other languages other people and they all tie in to our global human race So it's really great.  I should say with a price. So can brats Okay, so living notables You wanted to mention about living notables. Yeah, so we asked about the criteria for our It was asked about the criteria for notables and that's pretty simple for living notables It's the same criteria. The notability is the same Um, but the question is can their profile be made public or not? So the criteria for the profile to be made public is that they Not only have a wikipedia page But that it is presented in at least three language and english counts as one Although it doesn't have to be english if they've got three four language pages. That's fine also Um, and they have to have an immediate family member mentioned In their wikipedia page. So that would be a parent a spouse a child Um, a first-degree relative Um, it has to be mentioned If that if that happens then we can open it up you do we do ask that the Notables project be added as a co-manager to all living notables That allows us to number one. We're able to keep Keep a running list of of the notables a kind of a directory that we have It allows us to make sure that privacy requirements are being maintained And it also allows us to open up the profile with the person that should pass away Members may be very active you'll create a profile and be active right now Five years later when the individual passes away or something comes up They may or may not still be around on wikipedia and it's a real hassle to have to Contact a former member Wait to see if they get back to us. If not contact an administrator to get the profile unlocked If we're on there we can we can just take care of that. Um We don't typically get involved with Developing profiles unless we just do it on our own. I I do it for fun, but not as a program a profile manager I mean not as a project manager um But we're not going to go in and mess with your profiles. We just want to be there one for security reasons two for um You know so for accessibility. I will tell you we just had a famous person who I will not mention their name But uh, they contacted me last week and said please take my profile down. I don't want it up there I'm not sure why because there was nothing up there that wasn't on wikipedia and all over the internet Um, but that's their right and no questions asked. We took the profile down um It's a lot harder to do that when an individual member is managing a profile individually um You know so just again for kind of legal reasons Privacy reasons we do ask that we be added as a co-manager And when we are added as a So when he says this he means go to the privacy tab in the profile scroll down And on the notables page on their their project page, they have their gmail their google groups. Excuse me Their google groups email Well, it's that's what I was asking you to do and I know that every notable I create I just add them to the trusted list And that's you know, they don't You don't necessarily want to be on the p.m On the p.m of the profile if they're deceased In general, there's certain ones so if they're deceased, we don't have to be on at all You can put us on but we don't have to be we don't manage every notable profile We do want to be on as a co-manager of every living individuals profile and as as sanny said, you just go on and enter our email address. It's on our On our project page or you can email us and we can let you know We can't post it on g2g But we can send it to private email if that's Works for you But you go in you put us on the trusted list Then you go back and click to put us on them as a project manager And at that point if you notify us we can then open up the profile for public viewing um And at that point we'll basically stay out of you know Again, we're not going to go in and That's with your profiles. You constantly they're not looking over your shoulder as much But I can tell you I think that a lot of wiki-triers think that as a project leader We have this master control thing and we don't You know, we we help manage the project and have fun things that we do with it, but um because of privacy laws are so strict that only the very upper levels of wiki tree have the admin ability so if you add notables on that privacy tab for living people As the pm it just makes life a lot easier, especially if they become deceased and you want it opened up pretty quick Which or for example this living notable that just contacted me Um, if I wasn't on there they're going to be contacting you Um with from there and it actually isn't it wasn't him that contacted me So I didn't get to meet the celebrity. It was his attorneys that contacted me. Oh, how fun If you don't want to deal with his attorneys Um, you know put a project on on there. We'll be able to take care of it for you. So, um And that's very rare, but but you know it happened. Um So yeah, we're not trying to take a we have we have 60 000 notables on wiki tree Um Scott and I do not oversee every one of them the way. Oh come on. You don't look at every 60 000 every day to see what changes we're making But we do get if you know if there's alert if there's a you know a red a red flag comes up on a on a On a um profile and it's not connected to the notables and we don't get it You know you'll get it and have to deal with it. So it just gives us a little bit of ability to help help out if we need to um, okay, so um Why don't we pick? Okay, you want to go just want to pick a profile or do you want to go to bingo? um Oh either way, I don't know what time we got we're kind of running low on time So why don't we go to bingo and then we can wrap up? I will say this I did like this namesake of murphy's law And yes, his name is murphy. I was just going to suggest that one. Yeah, this is funny We'll bring up just very briefly just so you can see because your your team does an incredible job with this I think that you need to show off some of these profiles. This is just cool This was um, and I really want to emphasize very rarely is it me. It's it's the team Um, you know, I get it started that they put these together When I create a profile, I put up a name a birthday a death date in place and that's it um Just bear bones Yeah, you will not get I deliberately don't put any relatives up I don't put well. I will put on like a one sentence biography. You know, he was the first president of panama. That's it. Um But the team creates the profiles so murphy is um the um individual who came up with murphy's law anything that can go wrong will go wrong The interesting thing is what he was trying to say was be prepared. Um It's kind of come up as a negative um you know pessimistic But um, what he was saying is, you know, he was an engineer an aerospace engineer And he was like saying that you better be prepared for anything that can go wrong because Um, your airplane's gonna crash if you didn't I was getting ready to say as an aerospace engineer I would like him to be prepared He was always disappointed that it took on that negative connotation as a Is an expression of pessimism Okay, you guys ready for the next card everybody have the card up and again real easy to play horizontal diagonal Vertical just get one of those roses. There's not free space if you've won in the past six months You cannot win again till your anniversary Click the mouse to do the dab. Okay, let's go through this fairly quick.  Okay, so this is I love the name Yeah, and I Just want to make sure I get these right because some of these names start to blur together but they're um Yeah, this is absent. Oh, this is um Yeah, she was a little bit later. Um, she was the um queen of Malaysia Oh, how cool and the reason um, I picked her on um, well Much of the the royal family's living and so I wanted a connection to the royal family So I had to go back a little bit away from the the current king And find a deceased relative And the reason I chose her was specifically for her name Her name this is her abbreviated name. Oh her name is um Let me I can't say it but I will count it. It's one two three four five six seven eight nine nine words long Oh, and they all and they all look like that. Um And what it is is that um some of it's her title some of it is her um Her husband her father's name So we used it to kind of learn how to break down a Malaysian name and interpret it here You've got Edward Murphy. We just talked about we just talked about And I put that and also in the chat the link That I just showed of the page that had the pictures of each individuals And you'll find a lot of these people that we're talking about today in bingo on that page Um Areas Madrid Okay, so he was a president of Panama. Um, he was interesting um in that he um He was president three times and he got thrown out by a military coup each time And each time he came back. So that was kind of cool. Um Grace of God. So Grace of God was Kenyon. Um, she was a um early um, I won't say a feminist leader, but um, she was an early female leader in um In Kenyon politics, she was one of the first women to hold public office in Kenya. Um, one men well fan I don't know if he says Fangio Fangio. He was a early, um race car driver Oh He was from I'm gonna double check it here Um, yeah, he was from Argentina. He was a formula one driver From and if you're into formula one, you've probably heard of him. If you're not you may not have um Call me a boba Adam to sports notable you guys are formula one drivers Yeah, we'll be fine this guy here Okay, um, oh, okay. So he was a nuclear scientist from India So again, I try to keep a variety of um, yeah of careers and and um areas of notability You really did. This is fabulous history Yeah, um, he Romali. I'm I believe he is a writer If you like filmmaker, he's from Malaysia. He was an actor filmmaker singer and composer The interesting thing about him was he was not famous in Malaysia He was from Malaysia lived in Malaysia But he was famous in all the surrounding areas Singapore and the other the other nations Um, but he was never famous in Malaysia until he died and then he became kind of a cult phenomenon So he is famous now in Malaysia, but um, he never got to see his living. Wow um, Fauston work us And okay, he's again, I Just want to make sure I got him correctly because he has a fascinating story He was a u.s. Marine. He went to Haiti And back then this was um prior to world war two um went to Haiti and um Went to a Island that still had a queen And the queen took a fondness to him not a romantic fondness, but um, she just really liked him So she made him the king So for three years, he was the king of this island in Haiti and then um When his term of service was up the marines called him back. So he abdicated and moved back to the united states um He just got to be the king of this island for three years.  Well, this is disappointing for me I'm we're gonna be a queen of an island if I gotta give it up Did I keep the crown? Yeah, that was a fascinating this one most people should know on where else it's not Um, we got him connected. There's a lot of really famous people particularly from less, um Research countries like egypt, etc. Who just they're not on wiki tree. Um, so that's Yeah, that's kind of cool when we get some of these um famous people isabel sarley was an actress. Um, she was kind of the um um Kind of the maryland Monroe of argentina She she lived from 1929 to 2019. So 1900s but she was a, um Not an international star necessarily but a big star in in argentina Abdul ramon was a um malaysian Um prime minister. I believe the first prime minister of um, malaysia um, so again, we try to get the the famous, um People jomo kenyatta was the first president of kenya Um, I always find it's interesting when when their name when their country's in their name We have a few of those But um, that is interesting. Is he Is it because they had such long standing Notability and ancestry lines or it just you know, I couldn't tell you in this particular case Um, I do know that in some cases we have um, I don't know if she's on this one, but um lisa ukraine ukrania From ukraine and she did take that as a pen name. It wasn't her birth name That's pretty cool. And we've got another bingo kathy. We need to all move to your house. You've got um, a lucky clover Or lucky quarter or penny So i'm gonna tell you again if you uh email anyone she will get in touch with you About how to claim your prize and go from there. So congratulations to the novice today. That's pretty cool I think so here's a lesson if you've got if you got family members get them on wiki tree You didn't get a whole collection of mugs. You really can and kathy is um, it's pointing out something too You do not have to be a wiki tree member to win at bingo anybody can win at bingo Member or not. So there's that too, but I like david's plan get them on wiki tree Have them do some of the the inputting the sourcing the connecting the bios and bingo as well Well, david, let me as we wind up. Let me ask you just a really important thoughtful question What have you learned the most about doing a 15 nations tour With wiki tree because we haven't had anything like this before this is pretty groundbreaking so It's amazing what i've learned and we we played it up just kind of as a give it to be a world tour and In the beginning we talked about like taking the boat to the next country and we've got a passport you can get so But I realized as this is all done. It's as if I've been on a world tour I have learned so much about these 15 or the 11 countries. We've been to so far that um, I didn't know and So just from out of a curiosity somebody likes history. It's been interesting To learn the details of other nations history You know, I'm from the united states our primary team members that have been with us from the beginning Most of them are not from the united states. We've got members from canada new zealand australia The vast majority are not american But they are kind of western. I won't say eastern european, but you know western countries What and we learn, you know, at least in the united states we learn world history from a us perspective So when i'm researching kenya and doing family history, i'm researching it from a kenyan perspective And when i'm looking at notables These are people that made their name, you know in kenya or in malaysia or wherever not people that immigrated to the united states and became famous americans so, um You start to learn you start to see how the individual lives cross over into the political Spectrum so when there is a revolution for example when we were in india um When india and pakistan broke apart Individuals had to decide are you going to go live in pakistan? Or are you going to live in india and some of our individuals who had nothing to do with politics?  Um, you know so that that political event that i'm aware of I wasn't aware of from the perspective of an individual family That was faced with having to make that kind of decision And i find that in country after country um so many of these countries have um recent histories of revolution or at least um peaceful breakaways from Colonial powers And the people were impacted by that and the actors and actresses and singers Just like our folk singers in the 60s and you know, they were writing songs about independence and You know, so that's just a fascinating Look at the world that you don't get You know taking a history class at american university or high school or wherever So that's the biggest takeaway for me. And then there's just practical stuff learning the languages Um, not so much the language has been enough to interpret um You know the naming patterns Uh those kinds of things. So there's a lot of practical stuff that i've learned as well But if you're interested in history, it's just been it's been much more than I ever expected And i want to point out again that there are four more Coming up four more Any time to join in nobody knows what they are You know, sometimes as david says sometimes he changes at the very last minute depending on you can buy notables So there's there's really no advanced prep that you can do you just jump in The people who have been doing this you you've had a great team. You've had some random people like me I randomly So, um, it was fun It was interesting to learn a different culture and the history Of the people and I will tell you I was thrilled that you picked murphy because that was the first one I created for your 15 nations So I had no clue. I had no idea Jump in uh, if if you're interested jump in you still have four more to go And it's really really interesting and fun to learn about the different cultures and You know, just the human race as we talk global and that's what we're doing today We're talking global. So if you have joined us live, thank you so much again I really appreciate you guys that come to bingo and ask questions and have fun and and win You know the cool mug the cool prizes and things like that But I also love the engagement that I get with our guests because I always learn something new as well And since we're talking global Then later on in our second bingo today is a big surprise announcement We're not going to tell you what it is extremely few people know what it is But we will tell you at the next bingo So make sure that you attend and david will be here to tell us what that surprise is So thanks david for joining us and just and just to absolutely double emphasize to people You need no experience to participate at all. You didn't know Right and um and we wind up, you know, we had a king of kenya who was um Descended from a native tribe. He went to school in england married a british woman They divorced she married a man from oklahoma. So here we are doing research in the oklahoma censuses Trying to make our kenya connection. So there's a lot of familiarity that winds up Popping into it too. So don't be intimidated To come in and we'll walk you through what you need to do And if you ever get stuck like I said david has a lot of people who worked on every single one and very friendly bunch Very mentoring very friendly bunch So we will see everybody in a couple hours And if you're watching this after the fact after life, thanks for clicking and make sure everybody click on the thumbs up To give us a like. I appreciate you guys. See you soon


So, when the typewriter first was invented, it was the sort of concurrent to that, the QWERTY arrangement of keys was invented.  They thought that this would be the optimal way for people to enter text or to type text. It's a little bit silly when we look at it now, but it shows you how things radically change. But there's a little bit of a mythology that kind of grew up around the keyboard. And there's two different stories of how the whole QWERTY arrangement evolved. If you've ever spoken to anybody who uses a different kind of a keyboard layout than QWERTY, you might have heard the story about the sort of speed of typing where the original typewriters with their, with the keys that sort of used the ribbon and actually wrote onto the paper would get tangled up if people typed too quickly. So they intentionally made the QWERTY keyboard more difficult to use so that type couldn't type so quickly that the machine itself would get tangled up in itself. So that's sort of one thread of the mythology. And the other one is that they made an unusual arrangement so that they could have a monopoly on the teaching and the sort of, you know, the business around teaching people how to use this complicated typing method. So now we're not sure whether either of those is really true. But suffice it to say that once a standard like this establishes itself, it's very, very difficult to rip it back out again. And even if it's not the most optimal method for doing this, it sort of, it has this kind of crazy longevity. So if we look at, you know, you see QWERTY in the earliest keyboards and then it so quickly became the standard that it was, you know, it was adopted and carried through and, you know, you got it in, you know, all of the manual typewriters. And then here's an Atari, you know, one of the early word processing machines. And again, we still have the QWERTY keyboard. We still have the exact same arrangement because it's so embedded in the practice and the use of it in the everyday lives of all of the people who require this for whatever they're doing, their businesses. And then, you know, we can bring that forward into, you know, when we get into the age of mobile, the early, you know, machines that we're looking at, again, we still have QWERTY. We still have the same basic kind of layout. And you know, up to Mac, we still have, we're still there. This inefficient sort of system is still sort of carrying through right into iOS 7. And interestingly, the guy who invented the QWERTY layout, he wasn't satisfied with it. He didn't think it was necessarily the be-all and end-all and he kept writing new patents for different arrangements.  So you can see this is an actual patent application that he put together where he has a totally different, you know, main, you know, root, I can't remember exactly what they call it. It's the sort of, trying to remember from my typing classes from high school, home. There you go. That's the one. So there's an entirely different set of letters for this particular patent that he was looking for.  You know, we want to try to simplify the authoring experience and simplify the user journey as much as we can. So we go back and take a look at this, you know, again, it's all about the experience and if we go back before the web, we can see that the experience was very complicated and it took quite a lot of time. You had, you know, handwritten notes which you would then make into an outline. Maybe you might mail that to somebody to share that with them and get their input on it. Approval could be over the telephone, you know, you had to then send this work to a designer, say you were in a publication like a newspaper or a magazine or a book before the days of the web and then if you wanted photography, there was, you know, real film and photography that had to be developed and composited and typeset and film needed to be shot of an entire piece and then made into plates that got printed and delivered and then sold on a newsstand or in a bookstore.  You started with your notes, you create an outline, maybe you email that around to a few collaborators to sort of get feedback on, share it. Maybe your editor approves that again by email but again still design, a designer has to take that from there and then a coder makes it into HTML and publishes it to the web. And now, you know, currently we have, you know, a situation where people are starting to use mobile devices to sort of take notes or sort of, you know, there's a lot of sort of Evernote and a lot of other apps where you're getting your thoughts down immediately wherever you are in the context of what you're doing so that you don't have to go back and sit down at your computer at a later point.  So you have this, you know, this note taking capability but oftentimes that's not really connected to the mode in which you share the information. So you might be taking your notes and then transferring your notes into an email and sending that to somebody or you might be putting it into a Google Doc and then you're collaboratively working on, you know, oftentimes at Acquia, we do this, we'll put a Google Doc together before somebody publishes a blog post and several people will comment on it, you know, in the Google Doc and it becomes a, you know, that's the forum that becomes the way that you revise and extend and expand your thoughts until it's in a state where you want it to be. But the problem is that at that point you want to move this into the CMS. And when we get to the CMS, when we get to Drupal, right, you have to copy and paste. Maybe you're copying from Word.  But I think more often these days you are, you're copying from Google Docs or from some other collaborative editing platform. Maybe you're using Evernote or something else like that. And your formatting is completely lost. You know, in Drupal 8 we introduced the capability of having your format come with you from a Word document, but that's not true of Google Docs. Google, all the formatting in Google is in there with JavaScript and spans and everything is completely gone by the time you paste it into Drupal. So then you're going back and you're adding back all of the formatting that you had when you put together your collaborative, you know, editing process and then there might be an additional sort of, you know, workflow process after that, at the end of that, right? So you had a sort of, you had a collaborative process in working in Google Docs and then it went into and got reformatted and then, but now I also have a workflow. I have workbench installed and, you know, and then I have an editor who has to approve it and then they're going to say, okay, that's good to go. We publish it. We push it live. So it's still a fairly, you know, complicated and convoluted process, but what we really want is something much more simpler than that. You know, we want a situation where all of the note-taking and the editing and the collaborating and the sort of formatting occurs in one place, right? All in a single sort of environment where nothing ever gets lost because this kind of loss and sort of rewriting and reformatting is, it's painful. It's not an optimal experience really for anybody. And however much we have improved content authoring in Drupal 8 by adding, you know, by adding edit in place and adding CK editor, which is awesome, these problems still persist and they will persist into the future. So we have to think about where we're going to go next with this. So going back to the keyboard for a minute, I want to just dive into some of the current sort of trends and places where things are going, you know, with the keyboard itself and with text input. So because the landscape of this is changing really, really rapidly and we're going to need to adapt to that. We're going to need to figure out how we, you know, how we cope with these totally new paradigms that we're going to be seeing. So you can see that, you know, right off the bat, a lot of people use a Dvorak keyboard, which is, you know, which solves this QWERTY problem.  So the Dvorak keyboard completely rearranges all of the keys and lets you type more, supposedly lets you type more efficiently. And a lot of people at AQUIA use that. I personally never could type either way particularly fast. So I'm always just sort of hunting and packing with two fingers. But, you know, this is at least a start of an effort in the direction of sort of optimizing this, but let's look at, you know, a couple of other things. So obviously we have all of our vowels in the home area rather than, you know, the QWERTY, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. You want to have the things that are there most often. But then, you know, but now we have swipe. You know, I mean, we have swipe keyboards and Android devices. And you have swipe keyboards and apps on iOS and, you know, and on desktops and on Windows devices. So, you know, how do those two things mesh together? If people are using swipe, but they're swiping on a QWERTY keyboard, that doesn't really even make any sense anymore.  But, you know, swiping is a totally different experience. Why do we have that? It doesn't make any sense. You know, you have swipe also on your phone. If you have an Android device or you can have it, you can set it to your keyboard. But it's not, again, it's not universal. It's something that's available for some users and not for others. For instance, iOS, you can't set your global keyboard to a swipe keyboard. You can have an app. Here's a couple of apps that I have used, which are really interesting for this. One is Path Input, where you can have a swipe keyboard for iOS. And the other one is Flusky, which is not a swipe keyboard, but it's a keyboard that sort of is adapting to you and sort of figuring out how to auto-complete your words based on a database that it compiles of your most commonly used words and the patterns that you use to type them. But both of those are really excellent. And then you also have, like, voice and dictation stuff happening. And then you have things like Markdown. And if we go back and we think about these, all of these aren't really coming together yet in a kind of a way that makes sense and that sort of ties it all together. So if we go back to our Dvorak keyboard, you can see that it moves all of the most commonly used letters into the middle, where they will be easily used. But this doesn't really necessarily work with swipe. And it doesn't really even work well just with touch. First of all, they're squares. That doesn't really make any sense. You want to have something that maps more closely to the human factors, to your actual fingertips. Your fingertips are not square. And then the next thing is that if you are using swipe, say you wanted to swipe student, the word student. Well, you can see that because all of my letters are in a row, it's a much more difficult job for the pattern recognition to figure out that I'm typing student because I'm going back and forth across all of these letters several different times. So if we were to, and also it's set up horizontally for people for sort of two-hand typing. But if we were to think about this in a slightly different way, and rearrange things so that you stagger the letters and then you brought them all together, something like this makes much, much more sense for swipe. This is student again in that format. So I have a way to more easily move around and I can see where I'm going. And additionally, one of the other problems with the swipe keyboard is how many people have actually used a swipe keyboard just out of curiosity? So quite a lot. So how many people have had a problem with a swipe keyboard where your finger is in the way of the letters? Have you seen that? Yeah, it's problematic. I find that it works quite well if you're using a stylus. But on a phone, your finger gets in the way of the letters. So I don't see this as necessarily a really kind of efficient way, even if you make improvements like this of users, of authors, authoring content in Drupal with the swipe keyboard. But there's a lot of other things happening. And then the other question is, isn't this the responsibility of the device? Well, when we're thinking about our CMS, we're thinking about what does the CMS do and what does the device do? And we push off all of these other use and responsibility questions onto the device and leave it in their hands and say, oh, well, you know, I mean, we don't have to worry about that. We'll just give them a whizzy wig, and then they can format their text. But how they actually get the text in there, that's not our problem. That's not our business. I think we should think about it. We should think about it as our business because we should be thinking about the whole user journey. And it's not just that it's our responsibility or our problem. It's our opportunity, right? As a community to seek out what the entire experience is and see how much of it we can really encompass with what we do. So I'm gonna talk a little bit more about that later on. So one of the things that we've come across in the authoring improvements in Drupal 8, that may be a problem that we are gonna have to think about more creatively and differently, is that despite the fact that we've got CK Editor and that we've got Edit in Place and that we've got a lot of really much more effortless tools for entering text and for authoring things in Drupal, we are still fighting with the devices. So how many of you have used CK Editor in Drupal 8 on an iPhone or on an Android device? Or tried it out? So, you're right. Or boy, I'm sorry. It's not easy because the device is fighting with you. It's great. It's tremendous on a desktop or laptop device, but as soon as you get into the context of mobile, the devices are getting in your way. They're throwing up their tools right in front of the WYSIWYG tools. And this is really problematic, because there's nothing we can really do to get around that. We can't turn off the device tools. The device tools are gonna be there, no matter what we do. And what happens in this instance is, in order to use this, you have to scroll out of the way. You have to scroll the device controls away from where your cursor is. And in some instances, if you have specific types of controls under there, by the time you've scrolled it away, you've deselected the word that you had selected and you can't even do the thing you wanted to do. So it's really, really difficult. And we spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to get around this.  But, and then in addition to that, the device is providing redundant functionality, which is confusing to the user. You can see here that you have bold and underline underneath, or on top of in the iOS device tools, you're bold and underline that you have in your CK editor. So somebody might easily get the impression that they could bold something using the device tools in iOS, and that it's gonna be bolded. But that's not gonna be saved into your database. It will bold on the screen. If you bold something, it's gonna bold it. But it's not bolding it. It's CK editor is not bolding it. It's not getting written into your database. So this is another one of the problems that we are encountering and that we're gonna need to think about. So, you know, a lot of these issues around, an application or a device control can be overcome in the context of an app. It's just when we're in the context of HTML in the browser that we come across these problems. So it begs the question, you know, should we think about solutions in Drupal that use an app to, or use something that's more on the client side to deal with these issues. So, but when we talk about issues with input and issues with text and keyboards and WYSIWYGS and all of those things, there's a whole other range of things that we're not even thinking about, which are coming on the line. So the content author's journey starts with input, right? And we need to understand where all of these new methods of input are going, because this is really, really a very exciting area. So, we have glass. Glass, obviously, you're not writing things with glass, but you have input with glass. You know, you have a Boolean, you know, blink, which is yes or no, or submit, or, you know, or cancel. So, you have that ability.  So, you also have style, you know, things that use a stylus, I mentioned before, but this is, you know, can be very slow. Has anybody seen this film, Her? It's really interesting because, I think it's wrong in a lot of respects because it shows this world in which this guy is talking. He's using voice control in the office to sort of write, he's a kind of a writer, he writes people's letters for them, which is kind of a strange quirk of the movie. A rewriter, right, he rewrites people's letters. But it brings up this issue, which is something that comes up with voice, which is that nobody wants to speak a personal email or correspondence in the middle of a crowded office where there are people standing all around them. But there are things that are arising now which sort of overcome that. So, dragon speech recognition has been around for some time and it works quite well, but you're not gonna speak private correspondence, you're not gonna wanna do that. And the other thing is that it strains your vocal cords. If you're an author or a journalist and you're speaking all day long, this is even worse than carpal tunnel syndrome. You really get vocal strain. People have severe problems with this already. Character and pattern recognition is what's being used for the stylist stuff. And all of these things are using these kind of forms of recognition, but this has problems with speed. You can't write in longhand as fast as you can type. You may be able to use your stylist to swipe faster than you can type. But there's other interesting things on the horizon coming up very soon, which is things such as sub-vocal speech recognition, where you're actually not really even speaking. You're just thinking, I'm gonna say this, and a voice recognition very similar to dragon is actually reading that. But it's not quite ready for primetime yet. It still has problems with accuracy. But this technology and other technologies around sort of sub-audible, highly sensitive microphones are going to come together to form a new form of input where you don't really need a keyboard at all. You don't need a stylist or a keyboard or anything like that. And how are we gonna deal with that when that comes along? How are we going to, how does that mesh with a WYSIWYG editor? How does that mesh with text input in Drupal? These are questions that are gonna need to be asked. So, and then additionally, we have a lot of stuff happening about the intelligence of the device or the intelligence of the application. So we have things like auto-complete, auto-correct, which gets a lot of humor on the internet. And other things like, essentially these auto-comprehend tools where it's like it's figuring out what you were going to say or what it thinks you might say and then sort of auto-filling those in. All of these things, one of the interesting things about these things is that they all compile a database on you and on your specific habits. And they use that to build on this sort of recognition and improve it over time. Nuances tools use that and a lot of the other tools that they're building up a database that's gonna be something that is specific to you. It's not sort of general. And then there's something that I'd call contextual input. And we already see this with things like photos on your devices. So if you go out and you take a photo on an iOS device, that's geotagged and it's given a lot of meta information based on where you were the time of day and a lot of other factors, what device you were using, et cetera. But it's not hard to see very soon in the future a situation in which all of the input that you create of text is also meta tagged in this exact same way. So your system can know and read back to you, oh, you said this at night or you said this in bad weather or this is something that you wrote at this particular time in this particular place and then be able to use these recognition techniques to make some sense of that and to give it back to you in a more contextual way. So that could lead to something which I would call auto compose. So imagine I started an email or a document and I said one of the problems with using web fonts is and then it prompted me, on December 12th, 2013 you wrote this, right? You've already said this, you've already written this stuff. Do you wanna just use that and or edit it and add to it and extend it? So it's kind of in a sense replacing your memory. It's like it's sort of extending and adapting to and enhancing your ability to author and sort of compose ideas and bring things together. And that's really just the beginning of that kind of thing. But one of the things that this really sort of leads to or one of the questions that this leads to is should, you know, with all of these capabilities, right? With all of these possible modes of input and with all of these problems that we have with fighting with the device and not having a sort of a mesh between the device and what we're trying to do with Drupal, which is give people an authoring experience that makes sense and that's effortless and easy, does it really make sense for us to continue to push on authoring being on the server side and should authoring really be on the client side? Should we be working on a solution that brings authoring over to the client side or something that bridges that gap in a better way? I mean, we have authoring right now, again, we have this situation where I take notes, I share, I use Google Docs or some other method and then I still have to do this reformatting. I have to bring it over the gap. How can we remove those steps from this process? And I think that there's a couple of ways that I think that we could do this that we could look towards. The first one is authoring on a content server. This doesn't necessarily solve the problems of, it doesn't necessarily solve the problems of, I want some specific form of input that I don't have available to me in a browser like Swipe or something else like that or Voice or some of these really forward-looking things and it also doesn't solve the problem of, I want to edit when I'm offline or when I'm not connected to the internet but it does solve the problem of, I want to compose things in Google Docs and have a collaborative editing process and then move that into my CMS, right? Because if you have a content server, you could conceivably have your collaborative editing there and then just push that content into whatever site it's going to. The other value of having a content server and a lot of people are making distros that do this is that you can push to several different sites. You can have, if you have an architecture or enterprise infrastructure with many sites, you can push your content to the site that you want to push it to but all of your authoring lives in one place. Especially if you, this is nice if you have, if you have content authors who are publishing things to multiple different sites. It improves workflow and a lot of other things like that. But then the other path is client-side authoring. Is there a way that we could move authoring to the client side? Could we do it through an app? Could we do it through a richer use of local storage or some other technological means where we can move things into the client and give people the ability to both edit offline and then also to be able to avail themselves of a lot of these kind of connections to the device that you don't necessarily get when you're just in a traditional browser situation. So I've mapped out some of the pros and cons that I think these kind of solutions might have but I'd love to hear, when I open up for questions, other people's ideas as well. So I'm thinking that when you have things on a content server, you have all of your content in one place, you have a canonical record of content. You have, as I said, better workflow. It's better for multi-channel deployment. But we're still fighting with the device controls. You can't work offline. You still have to migrate local content if you wrote something on your local device. But if you're authoring locally, you can have all your content in one place also but you have a single authoring environment. If you have something that works in a similar way to say, for instance, Evernote or Dropbox, you can actually have collaborative editing through an application. But you can also have that local experience where it has all of those databases, remember, that are sort of remembering your information and how you swipe and how you speak and something that you said last week and keeping that locally in a database. It's also more customizable and you can work offline and you can publish to any system. Publishing to any system, I think, is one of the really most exciting parts of this because if we have a system whereby you can edit and enter and author your content locally, who's to say that that couldn't publish to Drupal but then also to Joomla or to WordPress or to typo3 or to some other CMS? And just by hooking into their REST scheme of whatever their fields are and pulling that down into your local environment. And then, again, the personalization, the algorithms that are put together about you that describe how you edit, how you do things, right? The cons of this is, well, it's not Drupal. That's another application. And how does that mesh with Drupal? How do we do something like that as a community? And then also, there are cons around collaborative editing. It's probably gonna be quite difficult to do that. And does it dilute the power of Drupal as a CMS? If we move, if we think about the place where people are doing their content authoring and editing as outside of the CMS, are we sort of taking away something fundamental from Drupal? So those are some of the questions that arise around this. And but one of the notes about the app experiences, we already created an app for authoring content in at least an iOS app for authoring content in Drupal. Acquia built this app called the Drupal Gardens app. And this is available for pushing content into DrupalGardens.com. But it can also be used to push Drupal content into any site. So this is something that could be built on top of or sort of extended to do a lot of these things. And as I said before, on the content server side, there are a lot of distros that are already doing that. But then there's also the question, does it need to be an app? Or can we just make a more open, restful kind of sort of endpoint for accepting content and allow people to just create their own kinds of apps that will sort of be able to feed content or pull the schema of a content type with all of its fields locally, edit that in whatever system you have and then push that back up into Drupal. I could easily see with Drupal 8 now that we have rest in Drupal 8 that happening much more easily. So obviously there's implications also for staging, collaboration and workflow, but there are apps out there like Firepad for instance, which is a client side editing app that allows you to collaboratively edit locally on your device and do it in real time, just like you can in Google Docs, but then, and this is an open source app as well. So I don't know if it's GPL V3 or V2, but it's definitely open source and available on GitHub. So there's a lot of interesting questions there and I'd love to hear what people have to say. I can see some people filtered out, I think they really wanted to hear more about the semantic stuff or the content strategy and WYSIWYG stuff, but like I said, there's gonna be a lot of that in Jeff's session, which I encourage everybody to go to because he's gonna talk about how we chunk up our data once we've got it into the system. But I'd love to hear people's opinions and questions about what I've talked about so far. So with that, open up. Anybody have any sort of thoughts on the modes of input or the different ideas? Hi, Peter with the Four Kitchens. So I don't know if there's, this is a very open-ended question and I don't know if there's a very good answer, but I'm curious to know your thoughts. Given the need to chunk up our data and provide more structured content, what kind of impact does that have on what you have discussed here, providing a better experience for authoring and where you do that, whether you do that locally or on a server, what? Right, so I think, as I was alluding to at the end, I think that the fact that the structured data model is there in Drupal, at least outside of the body field, I think Jeff is gonna talk more about when you get into the body field and how do we chunk up that content. But outside of the body field, we have all of the structured fields there and any system that's inputting content that's on the client side is gonna be feeding it into those fields. So it's really just the job of that system to sort of make sense of that for the user, to make sure that they have a clear understanding of the structure of the data. And in a sense, I think that that's gonna be easier for a lot of these systems because it's abstracted away from the actual site, right? When you're in Drupal and you're actually editing your content, you're very much connected to sort of previewing it in the side and seeing what it's gonna look like and then it's getting mixed up with the presentation to a certain extent. When you abstract it away and you're editing it locally, you're literally looking just at the content. You're not looking at any of the presentation.  So I think in a sense, it's better for semantic content creation than a lot of the experience that we have right now. Does that answer your question or? Yeah, I mean it was very... Cool, sure. I'd be curious if anybody had any ideas around or thoughts around what I talked about in terms of the content server ideas and editing on the client side or in fact any experience working with systems that do editing on the client side. But anyway, go ahead. I guess my concern, I own a small agency in Boston who develops only Drupal sites and our struggle is getting our clients to put their content in, but they, I guess my concern with the methods that you've described is that for non-technical users, when they, we're trying to get them to link things and create calls to action, I would see them having a lot of difficulty with the methods you described. Are they gonna type out A, H, F, blah, blah, blah, or whereas if they're in Drupal, they can just use link it or some other tool to easily link things up. So I guess my feeling is the content shouldn't be completely abstracted from the presentation because for example in one of the sessions yesterday, they talked a lot about proper use of headings, bullets, links, and so on to make your content really usable and really legible. So I guess these are the questions I'm struggling with recent about your thoughts. Right, so I'm not totally certain I understand your comment about links or about sort of exposing the markup to the user. Are you saying that you want them to see the markup or you want them to? No, but if they were, I guess if they were working collaboratively on their content in one of these apps you described, how would they put in their H2s? How would they put in links? How would they put in bullets in the content as they're working on it? Ultimately they have to, our clients who are very non-technical would have to be in Drupal to do those things. Right, right, right. So that's a really important question and I think that when you get into the body field, and you are creating content that is already essentially marked up in HTML, all of the sort of filters and all of the kind of, access to all of that stuff is gonna need to be there regardless of whether you're on the client side or on your Drupal site. But you can't not have that. You can't just have it sort of plain text and then once it gets up to Drupal, then that's where it gets formatted. That's essentially the same problem that I talked about before. The formatting tools, the WYSIWYG tools have to be there on the client side just as they are now in Drupal 8. But we just have to have an ability to transfer that information, to sync that information back to Drupal. We would need to if you used a client side system. I see, so you're suggesting make sure that let's say they're using Evernote that every piece of formatting that they do in Evernote would translate directly to HTML? Ideally, yeah. Okay, yeah. How? I mean that's maybe I- So what I'm talking about is that we need to work on figuring out ways that we can extend things like the Drupal content creation app that I showed you, and also build modules, build things that extend Drupal to kind of cope with these issues. Work on ways that we can stage and preview content and ways that we can remove steps from this process as contrib in Drupal right now. I mean, the solutions for your content authors right now we've gone a long way to solving those. So if you get, for instance, are you mainly working with Drupal 7 sites? Yes. So are you using the new versions of CK Editor and are you using Edit Module? Are you using those kind of tools? Yeah, yeah. So it's not so much the Drupal setup that I'm concerned about. That part's fine. It's that when dealing with these very non-technical clients and getting them, like I'm always trying to figure out what's the best way to shepherd them through the content creation and import process. And so, for example, I would see the kinds of clients we're working with, I would see them much, much less likely to be entering content on an app, on a mobile device. I'd see them more likely to plug in a bunch of stuff into a big Excel spreadsheet and then import that into Drupal. That would actually be a lot handier for them. You know what I mean? Because especially if, let's say it's, let's say we're not even talking about the body field. It's just filling out all the different fields for each kind of content type. They'd be happier just filling in an Excel spreadsheet and then going from there. It's interesting that you bring up this thing about an Excel spreadsheet though because one of the things that I think that we have not dealt with efficiently yet in AID, which I would love to see somebody actually start working on a module for this, is tables in the body field, right? So, Google has dealt with this really quite neatly so far. From what I've seen, you know, when you have a table of data in your body field, you should be able to bring the data in and display it as a table in the body field. But in fact, what often happens is exactly what you just said. A spreadsheet gets sort of copied and pasted, all of the rows and columns, and it's not linked to the data anymore. It's removed from the data. So, that's something that we really need to think about, if it's data, it should still be data. It should retain its integrity. Yeah, you know, that's really interesting because I just had a conversation with a prospective client who has a Drupal site already, and they did this, and I'm really hoping we get a chance to work with them to see, I think they wrote a custom module that did it. So, it has a huge table of technical information on their products within the body field, but it's still linked up to the database. So, I'll give you my card and if I find out anything more about it. That would be awesome. Yeah, thank you. Cool, thank you. Hi, this is not a Drupal question, but I'm an avid user of Swipe Keyboard, and I was very intrigued by your circular or hexagonal prototype or mockup that you presented for the Swipe Keyboard. Is that something that you designed or? It is, actually. Is that something you've taken further than just a picture? Not yet. Okay, too bad. There's a lot of solutions out there, though, actually that are going in that direction. So there's, for instance, there's one that has a kind of a square set up, and it's not exactly Swipe. It uses a sort of a flick where you start from the middle and then flick out towards the letter that you want. But it does this, yeah. Sort of a radial approach. Right, exactly. But it does the same thing of grouping the most commonly used letters in the center. So there's a few solutions out there, but this is all very much in flux, and we're sort of in a very innovative, evolutionary phase of input, I think. If it were possible for me to use Swipe for all of my input on any device, I would do that all the time. I love it, so I'm excited about the future of that sort of touch text input. Yeah, cool. Thanks. Thank you. Well, this isn't really a question. It's more kind of a what if since we're being all futuristic or in everything, right? I tend to be pretty futuristic. That's kind of what I do. To me, the most simplest, the closest you could get to the input to the user would be to sit and watch them as they type. So something sitting in the client side, recording every single thing you're typing, and then computer learning being able to say, hey, do you want to put this on your website? Do you want to email this? And then being able to do that. And being able to let the computer try and figure out and suggest from what it's learned from, like you were talking about your past behaviors, where does this go? Because really the ideal experience is to type once. Right. And then just tell it where to go or have it even suggest where to go from there. Yeah, and I think we are, one of the great things about Drupal is that it is very dry in terms of content. If you write something, right, you can reuse that thing in a view any number of times or put, you can take that exact same field and repurpose it in any number of different ways and push it out via multi-channel to JSON or whatever, XML to any other kind of device. So you're not really, you're not repeating yourself. You're not writing the same thing over and over again in many, many different places. And I think that we have that really over any other system. But I think what you say is really absolutely true. That we need to sort of get closer to the end user, to the person who's actually creating content. Yeah, because how many times do my users, they type things in Word documents first. And then like you're saying, they're copying and pasting or they're copying it, they're putting it in email and then they're copying and pasting it. If you could have something that just sat and watched and said, oh, she just scheduled an event at such and such date. Hey, do you want to put this on the website? And then figure that out. Well, that goes to the semantic stuff as well because if you're talking about an event which is a kind of an entity, it's like there's a schema.org entity event. And if you're structuring your content types in that way, then something that is an event should automatically be, if you have the content strategy structured correctly, be getting pushed into the right place so that anybody who wants to discover that event can find it. So knowing that somebody's about to create an event, something that's an event is another sort of predictive analytics kind of problem, but it's definitely interesting. Thank you. All right. Did I, do you have one more question? Can you go back to the slide about the client side authoring? The pros and cons, sorry. Oh, this one? Hold on, one sec. One for the client side one, I guess. Right. So, yeah, I think that a lot of this is like, because it's very speculative and sort of, and forward looking, knowing what the proper technical solution is, is tricky, but I'd love to hear any thoughts you had on that. Yeah, so you kind of talk about all the content being in one place in a single authoring environment. And I guess kind of where my mind went was, you're likely gonna be on multiple devices.  And so, there's still an element of local, but it's almost kind of a distributed approach in that you need to sync those devices so that, you know, all your content. So it's like, what you want is you want a multi, you want a multi-device approach, like an Evernote kind of a thing. Where you have the same application, right? Available to you in multiple devices that then syncs back to your content hub, right? So that, you know, everything is getting added back, maybe lazily in the background, right? But you have access to it wherever you are.  And then you go into it in more depth and detail, but it's the same app that's following you around. I mean, I think that's really what needs to happen. Right, and I think that also maybe helps to address a little bit of those collaborative problems as well. If you can start syncing to other people's devices, similar content, you potentially address some of those. I think the other interesting thing is syncing about the format of the content that's coming into that central location. So if I can support multiple formats, whether it be HTML, whether it be Markdown, et cetera, translate that into some pure canonical type form, it's almost multi-channel input as well that you can then translate into multi-channel output. So that was just some things that were running. Well, so that fire pad that you were looking at a minute ago, that supports Markdown. So, and it also is, you know, it's restful. So, you know, it's a question of getting the APIs to make sure that you can communicate with those, or integrations so that those things can communicate with Drupal. Right, you know. So, right, right. Well, and it may not be, it may be translating other things into HTML, so just kind of decide, what is that central format that you wanna be able to translate things to that you can then translate from as well? I mean, I think the use case of Markdown, the reason why people use Markdown is because, as far as I understand, is because it's a rapid, it's like a shorthand HTML, really. It's like I can do it quickly, you know, with some quick keyboard commands and get something that's a lot more sort of lightweight and simple than having to go in and laboriously write all of my tags. So, you know, it essentially can be translated right into HTML, so it's, I think, you know, I think it's not any less semantic. I could be wrong on that, but I believe that Markdown is not less semantic than HTML, so. So anyway, thank you all for coming along, and again, go to Jeff's WYSIWYG session as well, because that's gonna cover very many of the sort of content strategy and semantic issues that I didn't talk about. I'm gonna be there as well, so thanks a lot.