So teaching to identify plants and especially grasses can be very difficult through a video. So I feel like these slides are going to be the next best thing in terms of an in-person instruction and as far as some of the really identifying characteristics and some of the control methods that we have to control some of these undesirable species. So we're going to go through slide by slide here, talk about some of the most common plants that we have to identify and control. It's by no means the end all be all. There's many different species out there especially depending upon where you are in the southeast or in the U.S. for that matter. But we're going to discuss in these slides some of the most common that we see here in the southeastern United States. So one of the most important things to consider when identifying a plant is the anatomy of that species. So with plants, animals, insects, or otherwise there's many different identifying characteristics and anatomical components that you'll have to familiarize yourself with. This makes identification a lot easier in the long run. It's nothing that comes overnight. It takes a little bit of study and into practice. But when going over the anatomy over time it'll stick with you and you'll begin to really identify plants pretty quickly in the field through just a field manual or a key or whether you're sitting back down at the desk or dining room table keying through some of those plants that you may not otherwise be able to identify right there on site. So some things as far as the stolons that these plants produce, rhizomes, some of the root structures, the veins and the leaves, the color of the leaves, a lot of times with grasses you'll pay a lot of attention to the ligules, the collar, the oracle structures, the sheath, things along those lines and also the inflorescence or the seed head and how that's exhibited. So over time this anatomy will come to you but it does take practice on a little bit of know-how in the long run and you'll get better off. So we'll begin discussing the identification and control of undesirable cool season perennial grasses and these are by far the most common that we begin with when talking about an old field renovation and that's primarily because these cool season perennials out compete the warm season grasses. It doesn't mean the warm season grasses aren't there it's very important to scout for those as well but most often we'll kill the cool season first and then begin to see the warm seasons after that but we'll discuss them both here. Here in northeast Alabama I deal with a lot of tall fescue. Tall fescue is a very common forage variety we see it widely spread in all types of areas and it's one that's very common to have to remove just like we've discussed in video one of this series at the Graham Farm and Nature Center it was our main culprit in that old field mountain pasture but you'll see that it's characterized by some glossy shiny leaves if you look at it from a distance you can kind of see a little bit of a sheen to those leaves not exactly dull or matted. The seed head is what we can call a compressed panicle it has kind of that open panicle structure but the seed itself is somewhat compressed at the end of those panicles. Around the collar there you'll see somewhat of a identifying characteristic and you know we term those white ears that are coming right around the leaf collar there and the leaves also have very prominent veins almost a little bit rough to the touch and if you pull it up by the roots you'll see that it has very short rhizomes compared to compared to a lot of other cool season grasses that's an identifying characteristics and in that bottom right picture even though it does show somewhat of a bunching growth habit like that which is something that we'd like to see with a lot of our native and beneficial vegetation it is side-forming which is a big reason why we'd like to get this off the landscape in addition we don't see a lot of browse or a seed value for our wildlife. Next up is orchard grass it has somewhat of a matte blue appearance it really sticks out in fields where maybe it doesn't completely dominate you can see almost these blue patches and I've got a picture coming up that better visualizes that but it has those open panicles almost a a bushy some sort of a seed head a little round ball if you will. The sheath on a orchard grass is very very flattened out along the stem there as you can see in that centered picture with with that really tall ligule that again lays against the stem so the ear that that terminology really starts coming into play with sheath and ligule that's one of those things that you'll really have to key in on when identifying grasses and if we dig down closer towards the soil surface there at the roots you'll see they show a very white stem compared to a lot of other grass species that we're dealing with and if you would cross section those leaves it will have somewhat of a V shape those are all identifying characteristics for orchard grass and here it is clumped next to fescue and you can see with the fescue there on the left again a little bit of that that shiny leaf you can almost see the ribs from that picture even next to that matte blue color on that orchard grass side by side they can they can really stick out and you can see the color of that orchard grass coming through very very nice way to be able to identify that even from a distance. Next up is brome grass now we have several variety of brome grasses that pop up all throughout the southeast these are some of the more common ones that we'll find in in Alabama and again they're not they're not overly common but there are areas where they do become quite invasive and we do not need these on the landscape there's there's no wildlife value that comes from these so just going over some of these quickly we've got smooth brome it's characterized by leafy smooth and very narrow blades as you can see there in the upper central part of this slide we've got soft brome and rescue grass and we begin to really differentiate these from the seed head itself field brome there the lower picture is also a very common one we see in Alabama and perhaps even the most common is this cheat grass or downy brome that seed head as it as it droops over and the hairs that come off the little spikelets there those are very distinctive characteristics of cheat grass or downy brome perennial rye grass is one that is very widespread a very common forage for cattle and livestock it's got somewhat shiny leaves in in the bunches you can you can really begin to see some of that vibrant green vegetation and again that has a bit of a sheen to it as you walk throughout the field and there's ways that we can very very easily differentiate perennial rye grass from annual rye grass we'll talk about annual or annual rye grass here in just a moment but with our perennial rye grass they will have unclasped oracles uh whereas our perennial rye grass or i'm sorry our annual rye grass has a clasped oracle that begins to kind of reach around the stem there also our perennial rye grass has onless seed where our annual rye grass is on and on is a small little spike or hair like structure that comes off the end of each and every seed produced and you can see in this photo on the right there are no little spikes coming off of the or hairs coming off of those seed heads on this perennial rye grass so let's talk about some cool or some of our undesirable cool season grass management considerations and strategies so for for all of these species that we just overviewed if the field has advanced growth it's a good idea to get in there and mow or bush hog it a few times or you can mow it and burn it in the late summer and fall and what we're doing with this multiple mowing or this mowing and burning is we're really trying to get rid of the heavy thatch that could otherwise interfere with our herbicide applications additionally if we mow and multiple times or mowing burn we're also promoting fresh growth and vegetation that vibrant and fresh new growth does really well for taking on herbicides and getting a better control and kill of these undesirable cool season grasses when we spray these we're talking about two quarts of glyphosate it's ideal if we spray these in the late fall and early winter after we've had a few frosts that's when these cool season grasses again are up and bright green vibrantly growing and going to be taking on this pesticide now after spraying there's usually always going to be a thatch layer it's a great idea to come back in and burn that off just prior to the native grass emergence in the spring a lot of times that's in that made april time frame depending upon the weather and your location in the southeast but we're really just trying to get rid of that debris or that thatch blanket if you will so that we can spur on that native seed bed make sure that it gets good sunlight good soil moisture and is able to grow as as readily as possible no to that you know at the bottom of the slide i've got that you can also burn or mow and burn in late winter and then spray these cool season perennial grasses just prior to that native grass emergence in the spring so again you'd like to have that burn or that spray go on in you know that march april again make march march and april time frame depending upon where you are in the state that's another option but sometimes we don't quite get as good of a kill and control that way which is why we'd much rather recommend that you go ahead and spray in that late summer or i'm sorry go ahead and spray in that early winter time frame is a good visual of the thatch that can develop after spraying this can be seen in video three feel free to join us for that as we talk about the prescribed fire equipment and site preparation at the grand farm and nature center once that fescue was killed and controlled it was going to be pretty important to come back in and remove that so we did that through a prescribed fire you can see on the left hand picture there all that debris on the ground was certainly limiting sunlight and was going to stifle that native seed bank so after the fire there on the right you can see some bare soil and certainly after the rain that followed that little bit of ash and and duff that was on the surface there uh was dissipated so we had a nice clean open seed seed bank and and site preparation for that native bank uh of seed to hopefully respond so that covers the undesirable cool season grasses now let's move on and talk about some of the undesirable warm season perennial grasses that we may see and that may require control on some of our earliest accessional sites bermuda grass this is this is really one of the veins of this early successional vegetation management it has dark narrow leaves and the issue this is such a trouble is because of the deep and heavy rhizomes that bermuda grass produces you see in that upper upper center picture there some of those rhizomes are are an eighth to a to a quarter inch there's a lot of energy stored there bermuda grass is is very capable of taking and handling a lot of pesticide a lot of chemical so it's a very resilient plant that just has virtually no benefit or value towards the deer and turkey and other wildlife that we're trying to manage it's one that we want to aggressively eradicate it does produce by seed it produces by rhizome and it produces by stolons or the runners and a lot of times if you've been in a bermuda grass lawn or hayfield you've seen these runners moving along it's just a very aggressive plant and able to reproduce in a lot of different ways um the seed heads characterized by those three to five uh slender very fragile delicate uh spikes but bermuda grass is one that we want to get off the land okay next up is dallas grass uh it has rough wide uh leaves um with hairs that you find at the base as well and if you look up this to the seed head it comes up very often in these three to five uh alternate alternating spikes almost almost like a like a like a tree stand ladder going up um one seed head on each uh on each side of the uh stem there alternating back and forth it has a very tall ligual you can see a very good example of that in that upper right photograph with uh again hairs uh that you'll see at the base and short rhizomes um much like the tall feske we described earlier dallas grass also has short rhizomes but with this being a warm season grass uh pretty easy to differentiate between those two behia grass uh very common in south alabama we do see some here northeast alabama as well but not nearly as prominent as the mid southern part of the state uh fairly easy to identify uh through the little v-shaped spikes uh that that seed head will put up very characteristic of behia grass sometimes you'll even see three on the end of there but most often too but it's this j-shaped purplish rhizome that really gives behia grass away uh when you get down there and dig at the sod layer and and begin to uproot behia grass you'll find that purplish j-rooted rhizome and and you'll know you have behia grass it's very distinctive of that species vassie grass is another one that we do see uh intermittently throughout the state here in at least in the northeastern area where I work it does pop up every now and then but that that raceme uh seed head there uh as it comes up the stem and begins to put out the small little spikes of of seeds in those groups of 12 to 15 that's very distinctive of vassie grass it has a whitish mid vein and a very rough leaf um and that extremely hairy liggy will like you see there in the upper right corner and the roots can be pretty fibrous as well not exactly easy to pull up uh vassie grass but if if you do you'll see um some some pretty uh some pretty strong and fibrous roots there next up is johnson grass it's another undesirable that you'll see pop up especially becomes obvious later on in the season as it reaches that you know three four to even you know six foot in height uh it really sticks out in the field it could be seen from a long ways away it has that brown open panicle for a seed head uh that very distinctive white midrib and that tall liggy will uh that you see there uh johnson grass is pretty distinctive fairly easy to recognize especially once it's mature like i said you can see it from a long ways off in the field so now let's talk about some of the considerations and control options that we have for some of these undesirable warm season grass species so it's ideal to burn or mow in the wintertime that's going to really help to reduce the heavy thatch it's going to otherwise be there and interfere with herbicide contact uh a lot of these plants that we're trying to control these grasses have very thin leaves and not a lot of surface area so it's important that we get good contact um so with a lot of the warm season you see listed here bermuda, dallas grass and bahaya the vassi grass and johnson grass as well it's important to allow this grass to grow and then spray it prior to flowering ideally in that april the maytime frame that young actively growing vegetation that's getting good herbicide contact is going to control better than other situations where you have more mature plants and where you have trouble contacting those leaves but we'll start stepping through them here so for bermuda grass it's really ideal that we go at it with a mazapier bermuda is a very tolerant plant and a mazapier does a nice job at getting really broad scale control on an otherwise headache of a grass here so 24 ounces of a mazapier if you're using a four pound product or 48 ounces if your product only has two pounds of active ingredient is going to do well to control that bermuda grass now with dallas grass we've got uh also vassi grass and johnson grass it can be controlled with 12 ounces of a mazapier or that three quarts of glyphosate bahaya a little different now we can do two ounces of that methylpheron methyl commonly known as escort and also the four to five quarts of glyphosate is also an option there you've got to increase that rate a bit more than what you had for that early prescription with dallas grass vassi grass and johnson grass bahaya is much more tolerant and with all these a good surfactant is methylated seed oil that does really well to help to contact and coat those small fine leaves of these grasses now it's important to consider too that if you're looking to spray after these plants have flowered you're going to have to increase these uh these chemical rates that i just had mentioned to you so once these plants have flowered their tolerance really increases and really no matter what you do as far as spraying you're going to have to do some follow-up treatments and do some surveillance it's very easy to miss spots and you'll certainly see that in the in the grand farm and nature center site that we have in a previous video where where i did indeed miss some spots and that that just happens bouncing around some of these fields you have to go back and do some touch-up later on of course you've got a seed bank these plants are responding from so you'll have just some natural um production come back in from the the prior year seed bank and just these carpet grasses are difficult to to control and contact and and like i mentioned with the bermuda grass they can just be very resilient so they can take a lot of chemical so you want to be vigilant in spot spray uh you can go back out with a one percent mix of a mazapic or a mazapir if it's a two pound product and then also a five percent glyphosate solution it depends on what you're trying to control as well we got to make sure we we identify what the problem grass is and spray it appropriately but that's what i'd done in the picture up there on in the upper right that was a patch of bermuda grass that had come back from a previous um mazapir spraying so i'd gone back out with that five percent glyphosate solution just spot spraying that small patch there and and actually probably should have just gone back with the amazapic right off the bat i did have to spray that patch several times throughout the summer with that glyphosate solution but it is now under control and we're looking to see what comes back next year and also we do have an option and somewhat of a a pre-emergent application if you will that if we know we've got some undesirables of crab grass dallas grass or goose grass we can go back out with a 12 ounce a mazapic application just prior to that grass germinating and get some good control that way too sort of a preventative a pre-emergent control for those species so just know that it really is going to depend on what species you're looking to control in terms of the the warm season grass and then we can give you a good roadmap to follow in terms of being the most economical and inefficient with your chemical selection and application so we've identified and discussed control for some of the most common perennial grass species that will manage in alabama now let's also talk about some annual species and some broadleafs that we'll have to control as well so here we have an annual cool season grass annual ride grass it's very similar to our perennial ride grass that we discussed earlier except the characteristics are pretty much just the opposite of what we talked about with the perennial with this annual ride grass we see on the seed spikes there the on seed that we do not see with perennial ride grass we also have clasped oracles you can see in that center picture where those oracles begin to wrap around the stem very elongated that's a great way to identify annual ride grass but just like perennial ride grass annual ride grass has that dark shiny leaf and smooth edges but this is a very common forage grass we see it a lot in food plot mixes a lot planted for livestock forage and then also even for a soil stabilization and erosion control as well very widespread throughout the state we do have some annual warm season grasses as well I've mentioned crabgrass just a moment ago and then also goosegrass sometimes these can be confused especially we see it a lot with lawn lawn managers but we have to make sure we identify these as well in the in the warm seat or in the early successional management that we're trying to conduct here as well so crabgrass has a creeping growth it has very fine hairs very very long stolons that run across the surface of the of the ground there and the seed head is three very fine spikes sometimes even more than three goosegrass on the other hand it lays very very flat to the ground and what's known as a prostrate growth and it's very whitish in the center that's one very good way to identify goosegrass and the stems are very very flattened the seed heads aren't quite as identifiable between these two with that goosegrass also putting up that that two to six spikes but you're really looking for that whitish flatten stem here we'll switch away from grasses now so here is a perennial warm seasonal legume that gives us fits as wildlife managers cericia lespedeza this is one that is very commonly planted for erosion control and was recommended years ago for wildlife enhancement it was it was hoped that quail would eat the seed and they certainly do but the digestion uh the digestibility for that seed just isn't there so the benefit is is very minimal for lespedezan or cericia lespedezan wildlife there are other species of lespedeza but it's cericia that we really are looking to control here it's a very deep rooted plant it will grow upright with a very fine stem and as it matures and later on in the season you will see it lay over but it's characterized by that little teardrop leaf and when it's flowering puts up these small little white uh cream colored even a little bit a bit of a pinkish he with a purple spot on the upper upper side of that flower uh but this is one that can be very difficult to control and if you see it in your early successional areas or on your wildlife properties it's one to be very aggressive with some annual forbs that we may find to be an obstacle are thistles uh those do very well to come back in and colonize disturbed areas if some surrounding uh lands have thistle or if they're already on the site you're looking to manage uh that's something to consider control for they grow in what's known as a basal rosette which you can see in the in that that lower picture below that flowering thistle and that's a great time to control thistle we're in when they're in that young growing stage after they've bolted like you see uh in the left picture there and put out a flower uh by that time it's very difficult to control that plant with chemical uh that really the only options we have at that point are through severing the taproot with the with the hand shovel and and actually removing that plant because those seeds would mature and spread from that point on generally thistles will have spine tip leaves and that that pinkish purplish flower but there's several species the most common we see in my part of the state anyways musk thistle that's very typical for alabama in general I believe uh next up is dock we're primarily looking at curly and broad leaf dock that pictured there in the center is curly leaf it is one that that can become an issue and you can see that you know when you have that much of an area uh dominated in shade and and reducing growth around it from those great big leaves that it puts out you can imagine where a field full of dock can be can become a problem and broad leaf is very similar in form as well but it also grows in a basal rosette before it bolts like you see in that photo and it has very shiny waxy broad leaves and and really sticks out with that with that large leaf it's one that you can see pretty easily uh next up there we have coffee weed also folks will call it sickle pot as well it has a very compound uh pear shaped leaf it's one that will grow up in that in that three to five foot um uh height and again it will stick out fairly easy from uh from from even a distance that the those bright vibrant pear shaped leaf using isn't matures and puts out the yellow flowers very easy to see and if you crush that up or you're working around coffee weed you will smell somewhat of an odor that somewhat resembles coffee anyway a perennial for that we have to manage is some of these plantain species that being buckhorn or broadleaf plantain when black seed grows very similar to broadleaf it also grows in a rosette like we've already mentioned for some other plants previously but you'll see these very prominent veins on the leaves regardless of the plantain species and it sends up that dense and upright seed spike it's a very prolific plant that can really become an issue for some folks and some of the early successional areas that they have and and even on on the food plot side of things as well so we've showed you some of the top offenders or management issues that we see pop up in some of these old field renovations but it's important to know that we have options towards managing the vegetation towards the species that we're trying to produce or or attract uh in this case for the presentation and for deer and turkeys we're talking about native grasses forbs and legumes with just about a 30% grass coverage that's where we really see the most use in these sites when we keep that grass at a somewhat lower percentage so we have options that's primarily through herbicide or chemical control prescribe fire and also disking in some cases so with these tools we're not talking about coming back in with any type of mowing that's not really much of an option for us here and that's just because mowing is really going to promote undesirable non-natives it's going to allow a lot of the woody growth to re-sprout and really build up a lot of thatch that's going to greatly reduce the use especially for turkeys and upland birds you know that thatch at the ground level really reduces their mobility and really kind of causes somewhat of a predator sink and reduces their use of these old field sites so we don't like to see that thatch build up and also mowing you're out there destroying cover and structure and and mowing over rabbits deer fawns nesting turkeys or whatever else is used using the field at that time so we're not talking about mowing here but when it comes to chemical controls we can select those that are more controlling towards grasses broad leaves and also woody growth for that matter now there are some of these that are listed on these species or these these vegetation types such as the grass here we have a mazapik and glyphosate listed now a mazapik and glyphosate are selective towards particular grass species but they're also going to kill some broadleaves as well so when we spray you know a field for multiple different issues glyphosate is is certainly an option because you're going to be able to control multiple vegetation in the species at at one time but if you know you're going to go out and just primarily select for a certain grass variety we can be very selective in that option also for controlling broadleaves you see a mazapik listed there as well but also very selective broadleaf chemicals that we have as an option to choose from at the same time so again we can pick the most economical and efficient chemical for for whatever we're trying to control in the field now for woody control we're not always just talking about a foliar or you know over-the-top spray application we've got other options there as well known as hack and squirt cut stomp and also basal bark applications where we can go out in the field and and really be effective at controlling those woody growth that otherwise wasn't controlled for some of the other methods like prescribed fire and speaking of fire it's a fantastic tool and one that's really going to be heavily relied upon in a lot of our situations here for old field management and really we're focused on the frequency timing and intensity of these fires as those are really what's going to dictate the response of these of the vegetation and of the site that we're trying to manage and we have ways with through fire we can promote broadleaves we can promote grasses and also control woody growth but a lot of times when we're out here not only just trying to keep that 30 grass coverage but a lot of times our fire is going to be applied based on how much woody growth we're looking to have for the species that we're trying to manage you know particularly to that site a lot of times when we talk about deer nest or I'm sorry deer fawning and holding cover that's that vegetation that's you know you're looking at that three to six year even six to nine year interval to keep that really heavy woody growth so just go through some examples here when we want to talk about promoting broadleaves and this is this is a in general recommendation lots of caveats go into fire applications but when we're looking at broadleaf promotion we're looking at late growing season burns and longer intervals at that three to six years but like I mentioned you're going to get a little bit more woody growth with that longer return interval we can promote broadleaves with more frequent one to two year fires but we're going to have to have some chemical control in there in terms of reducing the grass coverage to allow those broadleaves to flourish we can promote grasses through frequent one to two year fires and the late dormant season that's important is the is the timing for that promotion of grass woody control frequent one to two year burns do a nice job at controlling woody growth as long as they're good high intensity growing season burns we've got to have the temperature up high enough to essentially boil or girdle and top kill those woody sprouts that we don't uh or that we're trying to reduce coverage in the field we can also come back in with a heavy disking at a one to four year interval and have some reduction that way as well but like I mentioned too we're going to have some patchy burns a lot of times when you get woody growth in the field you're going to see patchy burns as the field doesn't carry or we don't get the temperatures up where we need to and you'll come back in with chemical control as well so we don't necessarily just rely on fire or just rely on chemical it's it's generally going to be an app application of both and these two slides the chemical and fire management that's a whole another presentation in itself I just want to touch on these to know that there are tools available towards maintaining and managing these early successional areas and this is somewhat of a difficult presentation to give because there really is no one size fits all approach for old field renovation or maintenance in the long term it's really going to be very site specific towards your seed bank and well your problem species you start with and growing conditions and things like that it's going to vary quite a bit so usually killing out the existing problems is easy because they're they're generally going to be these cool season perennial carpet grasses that we've talked about here today but predicting what's going to come back or be uncovered isn't quite as easy sometimes what you get growing back on that sites what you want very beneficial towards the species you're managing towards but sometimes it isn't and certainly there can be patches of desirable vegetation and and then pretty you know a little bit further on down the field there's something else you need to spray or get rid of and it could take several years and several sprayings for the site to develop and really be as beneficial as possible towards what you're managing towards so we have to be able to come back in and ID those plants and spot spray them and hopefully enjoy it or at least learn to because you have to be doing a good bit of it if you can identify these plants when they're young spray them out until something good comes back in its place is going to be is going to be the the way to success herbicide and fire applications are available towards managing and teasing these areas back and forth just like we mentioned we've got several options out there for molding and and managing these areas towards the deer and turkey like we talked about today but also other species game and non-game as well so it's also important to you to know that the response on that site can change over time especially as we run several fires through there the seed bank can be exposed and the plant community can change so it's not necessarily that you get the site where you want to be and then walk away from it and just know that you can run a fire through there every few years and maintain it the site will change it's going to be dynamic and you'll have to be out there and and and walking through it every every season to make sure that it's meeting the management goals that you have for that area so resources these are some some resources that are very good on answering the questions of what is this is it good is it is it bad what do I keep what do I kill when do I spray it when do I burn it when do I disk it these are all questions that a wildlife manager is going to ask themselves and especially folks that manage food plots or early successional vegetation like we're here for today so it's these are all three good resources to brush up on plant ID and then also in that managing early successional plant communities for wildlife in the eastern us that's a very good one for discussing control methods as well so these are some resources that I find very valuable and so do some of the other folks that I that I work with and and and help on a yearly basis so please consider joining us as we continue on with this four part series in video four we'll evaluate the response so by video four we're no longer discussing some of the management issues in detail nearly as much as we are some of the beneficial species and some of the quality response that we have from the site there at the gram farm and nature center essentially in that video four we spray we wait and then we go back and scout and visit the field and talk about the good and the bad that we see


Tajada niwa mawaria kwa hii mwa mawira. Ii mwa mwarii na kwa. Man Мыzi niwa alama 100 km. Kwa japa mawariu. Kwa nanuralani кakani yaung man na mawariu kwa mawira. We are looking for people in the olden times, it's a bit tough because you can get wild animals, you can be attacked by bandits, but now the Africa has helped us to know where to find pasture. Africa is a program or an application that was developed for and with the pastoralists to help them to make informed migration decisions by providing them with information about forage availability and water availability. In our area most of the time drought occurs and for example last year we had a drought and almost we almost lost 200 kettles, we almost remain only with 65. With Africa I can walk 30 kilometers. The app has helped us to know where to find pasture. Understanding that the density of cell phones in particular Kenya is growing quite big and that people are starting to transition from feature phones to smart phones, it was important to now create an application. The thing about Africa that is unique it has been co-developed with the pastoralists. So some of their traditional practices have been incorporated, their migration areas as they know them have been incorporated and then also some of their cultural practices are in there. Since I'm born person from this area, I know the place like the back of my hand and sometimes if I get some pasture for my animals and there is no water, I alert my people and if there are predators I just alert them using my app. The app has also helped me in reducing the distance I am walking and also it has reduced the cost because I just opened the app and I can quickly know where I can move to. When we were developing the technology there are a couple of challenges we are going through. In some of the areas that we are working on currently the density of data connectivity is quite low. Then also illiteracy has been a bit of a challenge. We've tried a lot in the app development to use iconography so that people can be able to just see the icons and work. This really improved our lives as pastoralists and the mobile technology has really made a big change in the pastoralist world.


e the point is is that they took us and showed us everything they had did they show us put their positive foot forward Of course they did Did they bring in negative people to talk to us? Well, there wasn't a lot of people there But we did meet with the mayor of lakeville and he shared with us in private meetings when we had these meetings There was no one else in the room, but executive director dandero and myself and who we chose to be with We asked any questions that we wanted to And all I was looking for on that trip in my direction from this board Was to go find a good operator And when I came back from that trip my report was that this was a good operator They were going to try to develop rail service Okay, which was quoted in there and some people say that developing rail service is a negative thing I don't believe it's a negative thing. I I saw the town of lakeville where they went into abandoned properties They they they took them over they started their business business grew around them Their model is to develop business and be profitable Their model is not to store tank cars Is storing tank cars a part of the business that goes with rail? Absolutely Because they work for customers and customers own cars and they try to meet the needs of their customers So when i'm back here looking the most important thing for me it is to find reliable information And people can speculate and they can give us all kind of end to end about what's going to happen The most trusted person that I have is the legal authorities from this county Okay, our attorney has answered all the questions that we ask I've attended every meeting over the past two years. We go to numerous closed sessions. We ask all the questions We've gathered information I don't want you to think that we're just shooting from the hip to make a decision today And the decision in front of us was reinforced today by a lot of people from watsonville saying don't abandon watsonville And I believe that that you know when you look and i'm going to go get out of the loop a little bit But there's a unified quarter study and I've told people I want to wait for the study before I decide whether we have a trail or a train and I believe this board By putting this contract here and by having the the clause that we have There may be a price tag that we put on the contract and you may think that that's an exorbitant fee And i'm not being fiscally responsible to put that on there But what i'm doing is i'm giving this board and this body and this community a chance to look at the study Evaluated for 120 days and if the will of the people wants us not to continue the contract Then we'll extricate extricate ourselves from that Our attorney has guaranteed us or has guided us the best they can That we're going to be able to do that and I believe that And being up here what I have to do is have to gather the facts make an intelligent decision Not be biased and try to represent the best interests of santa cruz county And the only other comment I want to make is that even though my tag up there says that i'm a santa cruz metro representative I'm also a city counseling for the city of capitol And I want you to know that that I do not have any concerns that might have been expressed earlier about fears for capitol And there has been no measure in capitol or any vote taken that says that we have any distrust or any problem with the rtc So with that I'd like to make a motion that we adopt staff recommendation to approve the contract with progressive railway Second so there's a motion by a bot or seconded by rockin and so then it was miss johnson Mr. Cappett Mr. Mulhern and mr. Coonerty then miss norian hope I get it all right Thank you. I'll keep my comments brief um commissioner mcpherson Who I his alternate and I believe it is really good public policy to preserve the option of passenger rail For the future when we can better develop both feasibility and affordability. That's just good public policy We believe that we need a reliable rail operator in order to fulfill our legal obligations No matter what decisions we eventually make For the use of the rail corridor In the future Progressive seems to be a competent and reliable operator We want to see freight service continue to watsonville as it has been for decades. We need to support our businesses That's extremely important and although this contract as uh Does support that We do have other issues with it and for that reason I will not be supporting Approval of this contract because although the proposed contract solves some of the problems we face with io pacific It exacerbates other issues. I'll be very succinct in outlining them The commission made a commitment to this community to investigate the best use of the rail corridor via the unified corridor study The preferred use of the rail corridor has now become the most contentious transportation Conversation we've had in many many years Ironic since we were all here many of us for the highway one Conversation by putting this contract in place now We are now limiting the rtc in the community to a time window Of four to six months to select a preferred use of the rail corridor After the unified corridor study is published It's hard to imagine that the divisiveness of this issue Can be resolved in four to six months The immediate problem before us Is we need an operator to provide rates for freight service to watsonville in the watsonville community Extremely important the line a few miles north of watsonville is unusable until repaired Which the rtc staff says will take at least till august or september to scope and then it goes out to bid for construction So maybe by the spring perhaps by the early summer of 2019 We will have our rail corridor repaired north of watsonville and if you track that timeline what that means is Our freight operator whoever we put in place now is going to be providing freight To watsonville for the next 12 to 15 months and it's hard to imagine And that's good. We want that to see that happen But it's hard to imagine that that provision of service is going to be an investment of 300 000 dollars Which happens to be the penalty it would take for our rtc to get out of This contract if we chose not to go to fees too By putting this contract contract in place we were saying to progressive That they will only be providing freight service to watsonville again for the next 12 to 15 months That penalty will come from measure d And I think as does commissioner rick fearson that that's unpalatable to the community Considering how difficult was to get it passed and get in collaboration Around that funding measure and as commissioner mulhern has pointed out we get into phase two We have no clear path to get out of the contract Um, which is disconcerting for anybody who's ever done contracts whether you're a rail contract expert or not What we need now is a shorter term solution so that we can provide freight service to watsonville Until we get to the unified corridor study Um folks call it the third option today I don't know what you want to call it But that's really what we need here to solve what's in front of us so that we can have a respectful community dialogue Without penalty without a financial penalty as to what the use of the rail corridor is for the future Um, we need a different contract for freight to watsonville Thank you Okay, uh, mr. Caput And after that will be yet mr. Mulholland This goes back At least seven years When I first got on I remember we were talking about purchasing a railroad line That's what we were purchasing and actually if we did not go forward with purchasing a railroad We wouldn't be having really a discussion right now about bicycle and walking paths and Which which is a wonderful part of this whole idea If we didn't have the railroad that we purchased with taxpayer money And it was mostly state money, but that's what They don't get money on their own. You all pay it. I all we all pay it together It's always taxpayer money, whether it's federal state or local My my vision from the whole time was to have all three That would be the railroad line uh passenger service for south county including freight service And uh, also to have a walking path and also to be able to have bicycles Use it. So the problem is how are the three going to be able to do it together? Well, right now, maybe we don't have every answer But I think that we can work it out and right now for us to not do anything with a railroad I think would be irresponsible It maybe a few months ago It looked like we were rushing into progressive But we did put it off and we put it off to today But every time that I went to a meeting Over the last seven years and there were a lot of them in the evening and there were workshops There were a lot in the afternoon. They were in watsonville. They were in santa Cruz And they always included railroad line Uh bicycle and uh walking paths so my My idea for this is for what's good for district four and south county And um and right now we have to do something and I think we uh, we're not rushing into it I think it's a great idea right now to at least get a contract and get some money in here And try to fix up the rail line And I am very concerned about hazardous materials, uh, you know being transported And obviously I would not none of us would be for doing that until the rail line is actually fixed or whatever But uh, so we're not rushing into that and I agree with uh people almost a lot of people mentioned Our freeways, uh the freeways right now are how we're transporting all hazardous material Highway 17 101 connecting into 156 and highway 129 Uh there and propane is going, uh, you know everywhere also So we're not rushing and saying we're trying to get that all done today What we're saying is we're trying to go ahead with a sensible plan with progressive and I'm trusting that they're going to be able to come through on their promises but um I'm I'm ready to move for approval on this And uh, hopefully we can, uh, you know move forward. I do respect both sides, but Uh, I think in the best interest of watseville and south county We need to go forward. So I will move for approval when we're done discussing. Oh, yeah We already have a motion on the table, uh, uh, mr. Cap there's a second as well So, uh, mr. A bop dwarf and then mr. Rockin made the motion in second so mr. Mollhorn and then mr. Coonerty I'll get you on there. Thank you very much. Um, so I'm I'll pare down some of my comments. Um, I'm glad that everybody is An agreement that this is about an administration coordination and licensing agreement a contract Uh, not a proxy vote for the future of the rail line Um, I disagree though that this is a two-part contract. This is if I can quote our council here It's uh, it's one contract with multiple triggers Those triggers aren't aren't decision points where commissioners get to vote or decide on on which Route to take their triggers that are enacted once we reach those thresholds Um, for example, uh section 5.1 of the contract regarding railroad facilities Commits the commission to bringing somewhere in the vicinity of 23 24 miles of rail line Up to class 1 standards within three years Uh, no mention of where we're going to find the money for it or Whether there is money available. I I'm I'm assuming that the federal and state governments They have pots of rail money, but none of this information has been clarified for us um I mentioned earlier some of my concerns in section 2.1. I mean 2.4 point 1 Regarding the the phasing of the agreement Um, I hear I've heard a lot of people Say that there's a 120 day review period after we received the ucis I see 120 day review period After the rail operator presents us with a plan for transportation services The the contract says that upon completion of the study And that we determined that the freight easement property is going to be used for transportation services The rail operator is immediately granted the license They then have a year to present the commission with the plan and then we have 120 days to review that plan so that that's Again, the decision-making process is pushed out of our hands and is now just a trigger in the contract of furthermore After that point in section 2.4 point 1.3. I'm sorry um The levels of service that uh progressive is committing to are less restrictive i'm sorry the the the the three years in which in which I uh Progressive is allowed to bring their uh their passenger rail services to to play um Is is a less restrictive requirement than what then the Iowa pacific Contract was Iowa pacific contract had very clear Thresholds that had to be met in order to be considered compliant They had decision points at three months five months six months And all these metrics built into the process to require compliance and if they didn't meet those thresholds Well, they obviously were still in business here, but This contract is less restrictive in that regard um And the the passenger requirements for for carrying passengers are are exactly the same I mean, I actually This contract is in many ways word for word the iow pacific contract And I realize now that that the talking point is well, we didn't have a bad contract. We had a bad operator Well, yeah, we had a bad operator, but we had no levers in that contract to remove that operator That's why we had this this bad player now in position for the past five years and all of these different facilities Are going to pot because we had no way of getting rid of them. So I'm so I can't I can't support a contract that further disadvantages our decision makers in the future And then we also hear that there's a way out and I've already covered part of that that that the uh that After phase two of the agreement. There really isn't a way out. Um, and I would posit that Maybe there isn't a way out even after we received the ucis. It's it's unclear At what point we would be making those decisions between the the the acceptance of the ucis And the initiation of some kind of transportation services so For me I would be insupportive Of a straight freight contract because I agree that that freight services really first of all are the core business of progressive rail So and I think that their freight proposals are fantastic I would I would enthusiastically support freight service with progressive rail on the first seven miles of the rail corridor I would also support continuing this item until after the ucis if we want to Consider a a a full two phase agreement or the passenger and the freight service agreement with progressive rail I would be happy to consider that that whole package after the ucis but I think that We would all be better served by Agreeing to some sort of freight contract probably would have to be at the first meeting in august because this this item was agendized Um, and then looking at at other options Perhaps even a second rfp for for passenger rail service after pardon me after we received the ucis But the motion's been made. Um, I believe my point's been made. I'll be voting no Before our next speaker, I think our council just wanted to clarify. Thank you I just wanted to clarify um what you mentioned about the obligation to grant the transportation license That is only, um activated if upon completion of the study you actually your commission actually elects To retain the use of the corridor for transportation service That's not clear actually in the well What it says is if upon completion of the study that commission determines the freight easement property should be used for How do we determine Is it doesn't say specifically that an affirmative vote of the body will then proceed So it determines is is nebulous. So so I hear your your point. I would refer you to section 8.2.4 And that is essentially encapsulating that decision that once you have decided on the basis of the study that transportation service will be Kept on the line. That's the point at which You would grant the transportation at the phase two license And you have 120 days to do that before the railway can terminate again. It doesn't automatically terminate I just wanted to clarify what the contract says. Okay. Thank you Okay, so I'm trying to get everybody I have uh, uh, mr. Coonerty, miss noroyan, miss kaufman gomez, mr. Bertrand Mr. Coonerty. All right. Thank you um So I guess let me When this issue came before I cited several criteria That I felt were were important to me the first criteria is our legal fiduciary And frankly moral authority to the people and the companies Who have jobs right now or depending on this freight service and making sure that we provide For them the second obligation was to the voters who we promised That we would do a unified corridor study and then make a determination about this and other Decisions and that this would in no way impede it. Um, I read the contract. I've read everyone's comments I go back. I went and asked our attorney Who's our regular county? Attorney who is one of the best attorneys I've ever worked with whether this in any way impede to any of our future decisions And our answer was unequivocal Uh in no And it requires the this body to take action But I also think it's him It's uh incumbent upon us take action because we can't have Essentially every transportation decision decided for a population of 300,000 people on this one issue at every RTC meeting hijacked by by one one this one particular issue when we are moving 98 percent of our people Through other means across this county. Um, so I'm looking forward to the ucis and I'm looking forward to having To having this commission Make a decision for the at least interim future and so we can start doing real transportation planning I passed out a What I hope will be a friendly amendment. This has been reviewed by our council and also agreed to buy progressive Uh, it changes section two five point two point five point one which is that um Instead of allowing them to store railcars In locations other than exhibit b. It would be only in uh, uh railcars and uh locations approved by this commission uh, and then the second part is to um an item 6.3 where uh, they're talking about, uh creating a place for freight operations and It had been mentioned in the in the previous draft the railway may store equipment and materials the location known as Wrigley is located between Swift street natural bridges at milepost 2.15 and it strikes that um as a as a location So I would hope that the maker and the seconder would Would agree to these uh to these amendments Wait for the maker How does the maker uh, oh you're the maker the motion I can call the attorney to the podium. Did you slip that does these uh adjustments Somebody could give me a copy. I don't not sure what we're talking about So I think the you know, these are negotiation points the agreement is up for you know Any changes that you and progressive wish to agree to? Um progressive representative is here. I don't know if he can speak to these I don't have a concern with these from a legal standpoint so long as progressive would agree I don't know if it's appropriate to have him weigh in on that I know that I've been in some discussions on these items and I don't think that these are critical items But if uh, if he'd like to weigh in on these I'd sure like to hear his opinion Well, thank you commissioners. Um I'm jason colada director of public affairs for progressive rail I'm really not that scary of a guy contrary to some things said earlier, but um I I do want to say that the railroad would be agreeable to Uh, to both of these changes. Thank you for that input jason. So with that, uh, I will accept the friendly amendment And it's friendly to the second as well. Okay Is there anything else mr. Kernarney? Uh, no, that's it. All right So now we will ask, uh, mizna ryan Uh, followed by miss koffman gomes Does it work? Oh, there we go. So I thank you everyone for being out here today I know this is not the way most people would spend. Um, a wonderful sunny day But it's real obvious regardless of where you fall on this issue Um, we all care about our community and that's something to be commended I've lived in much bigger cities in my life and we tend to get more people out for everything regardless of what the issue is so You know, hooray for the community being involved and being engaged. So Um, I appreciate the speaker who admitted his opposition To this contract and that it was based on wanting to oppose rail everywhere And that was really honest and up front. Um, and so as much as I don't agree with that position I appreciate that, you know, he didn't get into the minutiae progressive and whether or not they were The right people to contract with but but just came right out and said where they were on this issue Um, I believe regardless of who the rtc was Trying to create a contract with and provide services that there would be the same opposition because I really do think ultimately the discussion today was about whether or not You want to see rail or some sort of form of other transportation on on the trail? I don't share this position. I think the the um, no train or no Transportation or motorized transportation approach really shuts out just a lot of options And whether it's a train a bus a trolley a magic carpet Whatever it might be we need to fully utilize that space It's the last undeveloped north south corridor that we have in our county And a trail only solution does not accomplish fully utilizing that space Um, you know with that said though, however, we're here to decide the contract and the item before us is about the rtc's legal obligation To provide service on these tracks They're failed to do that their failure to do that will result in the feds taking control I don't want that. Um, I want us to be able to still have local control and be able to work directly with the service provider When issues come up, um, I believe progressive is competent. They've shown that And I believe the proposal has not been rushed into There's been a lot of opportunity for community input. And so I'm also concerned about people's jobs very much so in south county So i'm going to go ahead and support going forward and um honoring the contract I'm a little worried that we're going to have a new group called magic carpet way, but uh Sorry, I couldn't help it I wanted to make it very clear that we need to be open to what could possibly be on that corridor. Yes Um, so then we have miss kaufman gomez. Mr. Bertrand mr. Johnson and miss chase Halfway point almost here Um, we've heard don't rush We've heard uh, don't lock up this corridor. We've heard, um, it concerns about evidence We've heard about preserve options Um Alternatives to sort of come up at this point the triggers versus phases um We've heard about support freight, which is where Majority the opposition was about doing anything with this corridor for the bicycles and the pedestrians But then we're now hearing that they support the freight um I'm a little frustrated that we really don't have another option if this isn't voted on for uh, the community of Watsonville for those um that use the freight corridor Um This is a motion on the floor to just approve a new contract Um We're here because of iowa pacific that's failed to perform the contractual obligations for a Local businesses that rely on the freight services To deliver and receive their products This is just a vote for a vendor replacement contract It's a regional transportation's commission and responsibility To ensure the stability of ongoing services For the economic viability of these businesses that rely on this transportation modality It's also our responsibility to remain in compliance with proposition 116 Proposition 108 The federal ready railroad administration The california department of transportation And with our voters pertaining to the immediate and future land use of this corridor Not a vote to remove or add tracks to extend the business model in any way Nor eliminate the rights of the people to decide on what to do with this corridor That course of action Which began back in the 90s was set into motion when the voters made the decision to purchase the corridor in 2012 To conduct the eir's to perform the rail transit feasibility studies That's where we are right now and today And i can assure you uh that we're not here to make any of the changes to the types of activities that have not already been approved As a result of this contract and that any future activity or expansion on this corridor Will be will be determined once the unified corridor study is completed The outcome of this contract will not eliminate the 12 miles of rails 12 miles of trails and pedestrian pathways that we've already worked on along this corridor This is in response to many of the emails that have come through and flooded everybody here With information Not all of the respondents may be aware understand the complexity of the corridor Asking that we wait for the completion of the unified corridor study is not feasible To our vendors that currently need this service We have freight businesses that need a vendor today That can immediately address the repairs And provide the services the rtc is responsible for contracting so that they can move their freight I for one Don't want a crisis in my community to see the rtc delay taking any action So that the businesses in was able have to shut down And create another cannery strike suffrage that took was able decades to recover As a result of not getting their materials in and out of the rail line That has deferred maintenance and the vendor that no longer is providing the services That are contract that they were contracted to do It was devastating in the 80s when that happened and that we're talking about this same segment of population that had the jobs in the 80s Very similar in terms of the same location in the industrial location for watsonville now I understand that not all contracts are perfect Which is why I will expect the rtc to cautiously watch how those vendors conducting their business activity in our community This is simply a vote to recommend Approval of progressive rail in order to provide the continuity of service Provide maintenance of the line and to fill the obligations of the contract to its fullest extent I do expect that we need to make sure that the rtc Follows up with the hazmat issue with any type of cargo that's going on That we get a business plan Before phase two comes along If that is what's decided that will happen with this particular corridor We're not asking for anything above and beyond what this corridor was intended for From the previous vendor We want to make sure that our current vendors get what they need The impact it's going to have will be a huge fiscal impact on the businesses The the community with the jobs the cost of the materials that are going on here that are being transported I think there was a brief message Mention as well in terms of the cost of our fuels With our sp1 funds that the tax for the the diesel is going to be going up And this may be another option where those that move their freight Use this as an option to get their materials delivered and I don't want to Determine that possibility from occurring for those vendors that need this freight Again, I'm not happy with being able to come to a screeching halt here and say if we don't have this done There's no solution tomorrow if we don't approve this for those vendors The little bit of moving a temporary here and there's temporary is not a solution for those Vendors that have used this corridor in this line for nearly a hundred years and many of our Vendors have indicated for decades that they've used it and they they need to have a continuity And I don't want that to be in jeopardy for them We will wait for the corridor study for anything above and beyond the scope of moving One vendor to another vendor in this vote today Right, um, then uh, we have uh, mr. Bertron and then mr. Johnson and miss jace I saw a lost track here. Um, that's why I wrote it down. I'm glad you did so fellow commissioners and public um listening to the testimony from the public was very encouraged to see that As we listened to each other We started coming together We started realizing that the concerns of the businesses in watsonville And the concerns of people that would be living along the line And the concerns of the people who are very concerned about in general the future of santa cruz county We started coming together and the words were a third option People are trying to say and I heard it many times that we want freight for watsonville When I first heard about this possibility. I said I remember reels was here Watsonville is the jewel of this particular proposal. This is why progressive came here. They understand that business This contract got written because They held off for things like The train that santa didn't ride Or some other kind of option that moved people And I think they felt that they were going to get a lot of revenue after that for that I'm not sure But we asked them would you just do watsonville? so Putting things in perspective. I had a couple of things I asked when I first got here I remember a discussion. We're trying to figure out What does this all mean in terms of the rtc's legal responsibilities? And the position that we're in with ctc and the federals In their rules and regulations And remember bruce bruce saying, you know There's two there's a lot here that I don't understand I'm saying, you know this echoed in my mind, too And so I asked of staff that we get An actual presentation to the rtc about what our legal position is And what are our responsibilities in terms of our legal position? We never got it that curtailed public discussion That decision not to bring that information to the public And to members of the rtc us Made it so that our discussion was not as focused as it could be I've read all the emails going back and forth about Whether we can or can't do rail banking Whether we can or can't Pay off the ct's for the 116 funds I'm a little confused so like that commercial where someone's buying a car And there's this floppy thing going in the air and and people are saying You're switching things in me. I don't understand what's going on here So I ask things like that because I want staff to inform the commission And that was very important in my mind The other thing I look at is the history. I think it's important to understand the history here This is going to be the fifth railroad line being considered It was up So we all know they dropped out because 90 percent of their business evaporated Then it was sierra northern They came in here because they thought they were going to get a sweet deal on the switching yard near sacramento Well, they didn't get the sweet deal on sacramento They knew ahead of time that there was no business here to support what they needed to do to keep the line up in terms of maintenance So if we give the line to someone else And there's no business who's going to pay that And now it's Iowa Pacific They didn't get a sweet deal somewhere else.  They found out all sorts of things about the community Including the suntan special the suntan special went out of business because cars were coming over the hill They're going to bring back the suntan special and somehow really inflate their bottom line. I don't believe it I really don't The most important thing to me Is the contract that rtc made with the public of santa cruz That is the most important thing And that was embodied In the results of measure d Think about that. We voted for that George the rtc the staff to put that together and all the all the organizations that helped make that happen Many of the volunteer organizations here Are in this On this audience right now that was an immense achievement But to recognize the will of the people The unify quarter study was put in place We are dishonoring We are dishonoring that vote if we don't make sure that we allow that study to go forward Until we make a decision That is critical You do not accept The will of the people through a vote and then make a decision That you don't have the proper information for We've heard comments here that were going to leave businesses in watsonville in the lurch, but i've also heard comments here that rtc knew about this And they didn't say anything and now we find out That Gives me some pause It really does So I'm looking at progressive trying to figure out what to do UP went Sierra northern went Iowa pacific went now they were sort of forced into We played their hand on them They probably would still be our Our operational Our our record provider of transportation If we hadn't sent him that letter The unify quarter study comes out I Bet you one agency that's going to be reading that is progressive They're going to say here is a detailed study about what's going to make sense in santa cruz They're not from santa cruz They haven't really a clue especially when they say they're going to bring back to suntan special Think about it They read their history books like I said, but they don't live here They don't know the community They don't know the people in this room They don't know what they're dealing with So I think the unify quarter study is going to be very important for them And I want the unify quarter study to be just as important for this body And I want everyone here to vote no Mr. Johnson Thank you chair. So, uh, what a long meeting We're trying to get an evening meeting. That's what they asked for That's that's a play way of saying johnson. Hurry up, but um You know, I think everybody here is sincere in their hope for Better things for our county And I I think probably the biggest disappointment I have is that the original intent of Some of the people was to quote keep our options open But with this contract, we're doing exactly the opposite. We're closing our options We're not only closing our options, but we're also Um being tethered to a three hundred thousand dollar buyout that we don't need to do now Part of my part of the issue here If you sit here and listen and see what is out there and read what is out there You get an idea that the people are not satisfied with this Okay, they like the process and my colleague jack Bertrand has said as much that these these, um Programs or this process was set in place and now in in essence It's being discarded with kind of like a false choice Or a strong input being put out there and people talking about losing 4 000 jobs and south county not being able to be serviced by a Rail operator that's simply not true They could be serviced by a rail operator, but it's it's I don't know if it's willful ignorance or blindness. I think that's a legal term, but What we're doing is we're closing our eyes to that option and saying no We have to go with progressive rail now progressive rail may be a very fine company But as mentioned, they're an outsider. They don't fully understand the values of santa Cruz county You heard people today and and I if I go down the line from susan stanley lauren dean john tad laura doug erickson They have a legitimate concerns And the biggest one is that we don't have to do this okay, but Because because staff says we do and the staff report i mentioned before This is the third time that staff has made this recommendation And they were wrong the last two I'll never forget When pacific or sierra northern Was contemplated they were passed. I made a strong objection I said the the this is not a good company for this rail line I got like usual. I got voted down. I think 11 to 1 They went away and later on ellen purie said randy You were right randy was right. She actually said that in a public meeting I felt so good about that Because it doesn't happen very often So, you know, i'm looking at things like the new economy The young man who is here, uh, he spoke very quickly But he's talking about the future of what lies out there. It isn't it isn't diesel trains. Okay it isn't Being stuck to the past is kind of looking towards the future and I just think uh, the This is kind of a bad policy with a bad contract. We're locking ourselves in in an unnecessary way Excuse me an unnecessary way and You know the options available to us are Better if we either delay or say no or at least give us ourselves a chance to kind of Become a better provider for transportation in this county I would you know, I want somebody really to explain to me the whole thing about these businesses who I'm you know, I'm I'm Very very sympathetic to about making sure that their pods or their their uh side rails filled with box cars Have transportation, but I think mr. Bertrand mentioned You know, this is a problem that's been going on and all of a sudden we have to hurry up to solve it when We should have been more diligent and more structured in our approach to solving problems. That's kind of what we do I predict that this is going you know This voting yes on this is going to Further erode the trust that the people have in this agency and this commission because we really aren't listening I think that the support for a yes is a mile wide and about an inch thick Okay, it doesn't really make sense, but we want to go forward with it because it either sounds good or You know the the our our legal staff. Listen legal Opinions are almost by definition gray area. Okay, they're not black and white I mean often legal opinions get, you know, they go before This court they go up they get struck down I'm not convinced that we are in any way of financially In parallel because if we don't provide quote another Progressive rail for this line. We have one already. That's what we said Iowa Pacific is not out of contract. They're still here. I guess until that really happens We're not going to have anybody breathing down our neck and saying hey, we're going to sue you Lawsuits happen all the time. You know when we're when we're closed session We get you know every year we probably get eight or nine lawsuits against the city and they're And they're routinely cast aside for the most part and Hey, come after us if you really want to but we're not doing this right now We're just actually inviting the fact that hey if we don't do something We're really going to have to pay a lot of money. I think it's garbage so In case you haven't guessed yet. I'm voting no on this Um, and I think for all the right reasons. Thank you Is chase Well at this point there is virtually nothing left to say But i'm going to say a few more things and i'll keep it very very brief So one thing I really appreciated about today was that we had a really really packed house I think that is incredibly important for this process and I especially appreciate that we heard voices today That we have not heard from before. I think that was really important and needed to be factored in But I also want to recognize that we have for literally months been hearing from many of you many many many times about this issue And that really was heard So where we're at today was a process that we have been following for a very long time that very much took into consideration The hundreds of emails that we received the meetings we had in person the many many comments we had at our transportation policy workshops at our rtc meetings And as in individual meetings that we've been having and those comments did inform Where we got to today Many people are happy about where we are today many people are not But I really want to underscore the fact that this was a very open and public process in which you all had influence And it did get factored in we did do our many discussions with progressive We made alterations to the contract taking into consideration many of your concerns And I appreciate that because I think that we got to a better place than we were when we started So I appreciate the Commentary that we've had today even and including those that don't agree with where we're going on this But I am going to support the recommendation today because I think that we have done the due diligence That is necessary to move forward with this and I really appreciated hearing from folks that Came out today who have not come to speak to us before so thank you Well, I'll just make a couple of comments, you know, this is uh, this is clearly a passionate issue We heard a passion today. We we've heard passion throughout the course of this conversation We've also heard a lot of misinformation And part of the Part of the job that I've been doing over the last couple of months is answering emails and I've answered a lot of emails Um From people and I've met with people and people have come to disrupt my constituent meeting to ask me more questions um, but there's Here's what this contract isn't It doesn't it's not going to open oil drilling on the north coast It's not going to facilitate offshore oil drilling It doesn't mean we won't be able to have passenger service It isn't a reflection of some kind of Um, uh brown act misuse to talk about a contract Um There's just you know, this misinformation is implied on top of some hyperbole Right and we heard some today Uh, we aren't voting on a 10 year contract Or we're voting on a contract that has a phase one in which we are respecting the unified corridor study And if we if this commission decides not to pursue rail as an option We have a buyout I'm always surprised when people think of $300,000 a lot But the 11 million that we'd have to pay back isn't very much, but you know, that's That's something else. We we've heard about, you know oil trains You know that somehow we're going to be filling these uh rail lines with oil trains.  It seems To assume that all of a sudden we're going to get in bed with the oil companies. It's just not a realistic argument Um and the idea that somehow we're rushing this right, I mean and then this is where there's a lot of inconsistencies because Um if we're doing our job If or if the staff is doing a job and recognizing that the operator is failing They bring to us that we need to that we need to get out of this And that was in december and we chose to Start negotiations with one company in january And people said don't rush and by the way, don't sign a long-term contract And at the time I told people well if you don't want a one contract if you have to have all these phases and buyouts and other pieces That is a complicated contract. It doesn't happen quickly And sure enough negotiating with the company To have effective means to get out of the contract to respect what the comments we've made to the public is not easy But we've come up with a contract where we can do that Took a few months Then we gave almost six weeks for you all to see it For your lawyers to see it for your lawyers to write us 50 page letters And for us to respond So this isn't a rush job Um and we are honoring the commitment of the unified corridor study and I I disagree with my colleague who feels like he hasn't gotten the information Staff has been very willing to provide information We've held lots of closed sessions to understand what our legal requirements are and which our attorney has provided that information Um You know some people have said it's it's down to you're either saying you want the rail service or you're not We're trying to to find something that does respect the community The fact that there are people who need to use freight is I don't think is is is really debatable here We heard from the businesses Both sides have understood the need for that especially on the southern portion of line There are other people who say Don't even think about uh the freight on the rest of the line. That's that's ridiculous And others who said we have to do a EIR because we're going to have so much traffic You know they um Uh and other people have suggested we continue on with iobo pacific Which has failed every single test that we've given them and which is why we started a process Uh six months ago And we hear today that they can't even keep up on their 92 day inspection on their rail line on their on their engine So that doesn't seem like a realistic point of view I don't think that That uh That we are Going against what the community wished by voting for this contract. I think I expect that we will have an equally robust Uh conversation about the unified corridor study Which is going to be out for a long time before there's even any recommendations Um and I expect this chamber or whatever chamber we're in to be filled when it comes time to talking about the unified corridor study That's healthy. We should agree that that's healthy But I just want to um encourage people Not to look for a conspiracy, right because we've heard a lot of conspiratorial things Uh not assume That elected officials are are acting in the worst interest Uh not assume that somehow we're trying to get around what it is you asked us to do Uh we are trying to honor all those pieces and and and part of that It doesn't mean that just because uh a recommendation comes out that doesn't agree 100 with your position That there's something wrong with the process It's going to be a recommendation and then we're going to we're going to discuss and we're going to have a A lot of conversation about it, but let's let's just move away from that conspiracy piece and uh I hate it when people lecture me about what measure d was about Because I spent a lot of time on measure d spent a lot of time as In terms of crafting the measure spent a lot of time raising money walking precincts Trying to convince people to support the measure. I spent a lot of time on that measure And we all get to interpret what your vote meant But uh, you don't own the right to determine what measure d meant. We all get to have our own Perspective, but you shouldn't share it as as the gospel because it's just an analysis of your own And not anything else So i'm going to support this contract I uh, I think uh We we gave uh staff a difficult task in coming up with these two pieces um Of these two phases, but I feel confident that we are Uh working with the community. We are helping local businesses and we're keeping all of our options open so With that i'll ask for uh, the the motion on the floor Is the recommended actions with the two language changes, uh that were discussed All in favor signify by saying aye I Opposed no So that was bertron johnson Uh mulhern and johnson Johnson and johnson are against So it is uh three o'clock. We have uh to my commissioners We have one item that we have to vote on today That requires action. We have a couple other items that are informational and so we should uh i'm going to ask that we uh that we uh Postpone The north coast rail trail piece because that is just informational As well as with the uh with the approval of uh The our caltrans representative that we won't hear the caltrans Presentation, but we do have to take item number 24 Which is the adoption of the findings statements of overriding considerations and mitigation monitoring and reporting programs as required by Sequel gligalines and the adoption of the 2040 santa cruz county regional transportation plan I would ask that those that are still in the chamber to wait for your conversations to your outside Ms. Dicar, good afternoon. I was going to start out by saying good evening commissioners But uh chair leopold already stole my joke, so I'll get going here and I'll try to keep this very short Um, I'll assume that you want me to go directly to the staff recommendations. Is that correct to leave time for public comment if there is some So good afternoon commissioners there are tc has prepared the 2040 santa cruz county regional transportation plan As you know, this is a long-range transportation plan for our county for casting amount of funding Anticipated for transportation projects and identifies transportation programs and projects to advance the region's goal over the next 22 years The staff recommends that the regional transportation commission consider the final environmental impact report for the 2040 santa cruz county regional transportation plan To adopt a resolution which is attachment to adopting the findings statement of overriding considerations And mitigation monitoring and reporting program related to the environmental impact report Certified by the association of monorail bay area governments as a lead agency under sequa For the 2040 santa cruz county regional transportation plan The third recommendation is to adopt a resolution adopting what's in attachment three the final 2040 santa cruz county regional transportation plan With that I'd be happy to take any comments and questions I also wanted to inform you that heather adamson has been Waiting for her turn To discuss the plan Wait, this is nine o'clock this morning If you um have questions related to the eir as well as staff from rincon. All right. Well, we'll see who's daring enough to ask questions Yeah You're so long Well, no We'll see if any member of the public wants to address us about this item Seeing none. I will bring it back to the commission for action Anyone Motion by bertrand seconded by rockin all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye Any opposed motion carries unanimously um Okay Next then thank you for your work and uh, mr. Chair I if I if I might just take one one more minute. Yeah on item 23 Well, it is an informational item. I just want to call to your attention that part of that is Accepting the anticipated schedule for the release of the draft Environmental document for the north coast with a 45 day public review period And the public meetings that go along with that. So I just want to call that to your attention Yeah, it's just to make sure that everybody knows everybody knows it's later when they come to us and say we didn't have enough time Because this is going to happen Before starts start happening before you come back to your next meeting Yeah Look office life to know that we shouldn't just like do it on the base of information I'm going to move that we accept that and just do it a vote. I don't doubt we'll debate it I don't want somebody can we take action? I don't want somebody challenging the outcome because we didn't Can we take action if it's not listed for action? Well, it it is the recommendations are you know, except Okay So you're moving the recommended actions and particularly the 45 day comment period. Is there a second second second by by torf Um, is there any discussion? Seeing none all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye any opposed motion carries unanimously Next we have uh two items in our closed session Is there anyone here who would like to speak to us about those items before we go into closed session Seeing none. Do we expect anything reported out of closed session? We don't expect that to be the case. Okay. I would ask That that at least a group of us stay here for closed session. Thank you and thank you for everyone being here