I'm gonna run this meeting by myself tonight y'all. Madam Clark would you please call the roll. Certainly, good evening. Mr. Rickerman. Here. Mr. McDowell. Mr. Duvall, Mr. Vine, Mr. Davis, Mayor Benjamin, thank you for the Pledge of Allegiance. United States of America, and to the Republic of America, one nation of God, indivisible, liberty and justice. Councilman, would you bless us with a word, my friend? This time in this hour, for the ability to gather in these chambers, in this chamber. We simply ask that thou would touch us individually and collectively.  Bless this our city, bless this our council, and each person that has an integral part in what takes place in this city of ours. We ask it and claim it in your name. Amen. Thank you, Mr. Duvall. City manager? Yes, sir. Mayor Benjamin, we would ask that you all adopt the agenda as outlined, correcting the title to Item 29 to read the 2018 National Fire Prevention Month Proclamation. Thank you. Is there a motion? So moved. Second. All right. Discussion? Move the previous question. Court call the roll. Mr. Rickerman. Aye. Mr. Mcdowell. Yes. Mr. Duvall. Aye. Mr. Davis. Aye. Mayor Benjamin. Aye. Council. I will take a moment to note how the agenda items as outlined. All right. Seeing none, we would ask council to approve this September 18, 2018. Move. Second. Any discussion? Seeing none. We'll move the approval of the minutes of September 18. Court call the roll. Mr. Rickerman. Aye. Mr. Mcdowell. Yes. Mr. Duvall. Aye. Mr. Davis. I will take a moment to note how quick and efficient these things get done right now. That's pretty serious. You had minutes. Impressive. Thank you. Good job. Great help. All right. Thank you, Ms. Madam Clark. Consent agenda item 7 through 28. Is there a motion? So moved. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Yes. Item 23. Mr. Shealy. Mr. Jacob. Yes, sir, councilman for this is a contract amendment for our professional services for our AMI project. We're in negotiations right now with the lowest responsive or best responsive, most responsive, proposer for implementation services and construction. This is for the professional oversight on the construction administration of the $43 million project and also the observation services through staff augmentation to watch the meters going in to do the quality control of those sorts of things. I guess what threw me off is it says amendment number two. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And then it has an original budget amount of exactly the same amount that we're paying them. So I was a little confused at the way it was listed. Yes, sir. I believe this amount was their original, it was a proposal for their original services. We're just authorizing that amendment. That's why it was budgeted that amount because this was part of their original proposal. We authorized the professional design services and feasibility study and through helping us negotiate the contract. This is the portion that was, you know, the funding was identified previously. The number was known. We're just authorizing them to move forward with that. Yeah. It may, I get where you're coming from, but when you read it, it's very confusing because it looks like we're making an amendment, but the original budget's the same. I think it's not, maybe it's just technical error, but it's something, you know, when people ask me about it and I can't explain why we have a second amendment for the same amount. Yes, sir. The, and I see exactly what you're saying. We can get you the total project numbers, but this is the amount for this amendment for the amendment. The previous question. Kurt Colorado. Hi. Yes. Mr. Duvall. Hi. Mr. Davis. Hi. Mayor Benjamin. Hi. Presentations, item 29, the 2018 National Fire Prevention Month proclamation, the Honorable Stephen K. Benjamin. All right. No, it's so important that we speak to the role we play in ensuring our own safety and security of all the people living in the city and recognize that fires are serious public safety concern on both locally and nationally. U.S. Fire Departments responded to 357,000 home fires in 2017. Home fires have resulted in almost 3,000 civilian deaths in that same year. Recent NFPA National Fire Protection Association studies show that three of every five home fire deaths resulted from fires in properties without smoke alarms or with no working smoke alarms. Most, many Americans don't know how old the smoke alarms are in their homes or how often they need to be replaced. So obviously the, it's so important that we work with our first responders who are dedicated to reducing the occurrence of home fires and home fire injuries. As a result, we're asking our citizens to be more responsive to public education measures and take personal steps to increase their safety from fire, especially in their homes. The 2018 Fire Prevention Month theme is look, listen, and learn, and effectively serves to educate the public about the vital importance of maintaining smoke alarms in their homes and creating and practicing home fire escape plans. So it's our pleasure as the City Council, the City of Columbia, to declare October 2018 as Fire Prevention Month and encourage all of our citizens in the City of Columbia and Richland County to recognize and participate in its observance. All right. Who's going to accept today? Proclamation is the National Cyber Security Awareness Month Proclamation. Thank you, ma'am. I'm obviously recognizing the vital role that technology has in our daily lives. I'm not sure we can live without it. And certainly the importance it has in the future of our nation. We've all seen that critical infrastructure sectors are increasingly relying upon information systems to support financial services, telecom, transportation, utilities, health care, and emergency response systems. And the use of technology enhances the education of all ages of students, providing them with access to educational and research materials. We recognize that the internet and technology users face an increasing threat of malicious cyber attacks, significant financial and personal privacy losses due to identity theft and fraud, and that our role in maintaining the security of cyberspace is a shared responsibility in which each of us plays a critical role. We're proud to join a coalition of private companies, nonprofits, and government organizations to raise awareness about cyber security among all technology uses, helping us all to say safer and more secure online. So on behalf of the City of Columbia and all our members of city council, we want to hear by proclaim October 2018 to be National Cyber Security Awareness Month and urge all of our citizens to do more, do as much as we can possible to do to protect ourselves online. And Terrence, you're going to accept this? All right. They eagerly protect, even protect from us sometimes. They do great work. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you to Terrence and his team. The next item, Mayor Benjamin, is the National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Month. Honorable Mayor Stephen K. Benjamin. Sure. And normally Ms. Devine is present and she couldn't be with us today and she asked us to give everyone her regards. Whereas pregnancy and infant loss remembrance day is an annual remembrance day that's observed in the U.S. and Canada on October 15th and whereas it's a day of remembrance for pregnancy loss and infant deaths, which include it's not limited to miscarriage, stillbirth, SIDS, or the death of a newborn. And whereas according to South Carolina vital records data and statistics of the past 20 years alone, the infant mortality rate in South Carolina has decreased by 26.3 percent. And whereas though we've made significant strides in the promotion of women's health and infant health care during and after pregnancy, South Carolina's infant mortality rate remains higher than the U.S. rate of 5.9 deaths per 1,000 live births. And whereas the 2016 infant mortality rate in South Carolina did not change in 2015, it remains a 7.0 infant deaths per 1,000 live births. And whereas the loss of a baby remains a sad reality for many families and takes a serious toll on the health and well-being of families as well as our community and the nation as a whole. And whereas recognizing pregnancy and infant loss remembrance day will enable the citizens of Columbia to consider how they can meet the needs of bereaved mothers, fathers, and family members in order to prevent the causes of these deaths. And whereas the City of Columbia appreciates the hard work from groups such as Naomi Circle to help parents who have experienced the loss of a baby in pregnancy or infancy. Now, therefore, I, Stephen K. Benjamin, mayor of the City of Columbia, along with my fellow members of city council, do hereby proclaim the month of October 18th as national pregnancy and infant loss remembrance month in the great city and areas of fellow citizens to recognize and participate in its observance. Thank you. I never know the order of things here. Mayor Benjamin and city council members, thank you for this proclamation again, recognizing October as pregnancy and infant loss awareness month and October 15th as the remembrance day. My name is Christy Boether, and my husband and I are the founders of the pregnancy loss ministry here in Columbia called Naomi Circle. By now you may be familiar with the one and four statistic. It is believed that as many as one out of every four pregnancies ends in loss, whether as a miscarriage, a stillbirth, or death and infancy. Such a loss deeply affects a mother. For one, it's easy as a woman to feel that you have failed your child even when it is not your fault. But the other thing is that the moment a woman finds out she's expecting, you begin planning for that baby's life, not their death. And whether a baby dies at four weeks gestation or 12 weeks or 18 weeks or 36 weeks or an infancy, you will always remember that child and what he or she might be doing now if only things had been different. I know that's true for me. Our daughter Naomi died in my 19th week of pregnancy over nine years ago. And I no longer miss the baby that she was, but I do miss the fourth grader she would have been this fall. In the state fair entry she might have submitted and the young lady she would be growing into. And I miss my other four children in heaven the same way. But such a loss also deeply impacts the rest of the family, fathers and siblings and grandparents and friends as well. A baby does not need to have a long life to make a deep impression. Pregnancy loss is not only a women's issue. It is a family issue and it's a community issue. In the last two months our community in the Midlands has seen the remnants of not one but two major hurricanes impact our area directly. And although we have not seen anywhere close to the devastation that our neighbors have seen in Florida and Georgia, the phrase storm weary has been used to describe many of us. We're weary of dealing with storms. That disrupt our lives and we're ready for a break. Those who have taken a direct hit are storm weary but in a different way. Their lives have not been disrupted but devastated. And it can be easy to feel hopeless when you see the rest of the world going on as usual when your life has been shattered. That is why our pregnancy loss ministry exists and every other support group to let families know that in their devastation they're not alone and that their babies lives mattered and that their grief is significant and not just an inconvenience to those around them. Every October for the last five years when you make this proclamation you are taking the time and energy also to tell those of us who have been hit by the hurricane of baby loss that we're not alone and that our community stands with us in memory of our children in heaven and that makes a huge difference. It's not just symbolic. It's one more step towards shattering the silence about talking about this and towards helping families on this journey move towards healing and towards wholeness. And for that I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. Yes, sir. Moving into a period of other matters. Number 32, Benedict College Homecoming Tiger Jam Hospitality Tax Funding Request. Request and I submitted. Is there a motion? No. I would admit Mr. Mayor. There's a motion. Is there a second? Yes. Second discussion. Mr. Duval. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to ask that the council not approve this request. This is a request for hospitality tax that is out of cycle. It is for an amount that's going to a performer at a homecoming for an individual college in City of Columbia. It is on a form for 2019 and it's for a 2018 event. I think that the council needs to be disciplined in not funding these request out of cycle for a particular event. And I would like to express my desire that the council vote against this motion. Thank you, Mr. Duval. This is an important event. I would tell you if you've never seen the rise of a Phoenix before, you're seeing some incredible things happening at Benedict College. Benedict College is not only one of the largest HBCUs in the country, but on track to do some amazing things in the leadership of Dr. Rosalind Clark Artists. This homecoming event, which will bring thousands of people to Columbia, is a major event.  It's a $10,000 request. That's why I advanced the request. And the technical issues can easily be addressed. And I'm with a previous question. Kurt Colorado. Mr. Mayor. I apologize, Danny. I didn't see your hand up. No, that's fine. I think my concern with this request is for the last 10, 15, maybe 20 years, these requests never come in at the appropriate time. They're always asked separately. And this is consistent. And I will say this, this is not, don't charge this to Benedict. I suggested they make this request. So that's why it's out of cycle. It's not out of cycle because of the college. I will take that responsibility, not the college. I would think if you look historically, they have come for this same type of request, out of cycle, out of, I understand that. You know, I think we really need to hold some feet to the fire on these type of issues. It's just, it's consistently, and it puts everybody else at other disadvantage. Well, it's, again, I initiated this request. This is the first request of its kind under the new leadership of the college. So again, charge it to my head and heart, not to this fantastic educational institution. If there's no more comment, let's move to the previous question. Mr. Rickerman? No. Mr. Mcdowell? Yes. Mr. Duvall? No. Mr. Davis? Aye. Mayor Benjamin? Aye. All right. Yeah, 33. Item 33, council's asked to approve the establishment of a neighborhood wide 25 mile per hour speed limit in the Shanda neighborhood as requested by the public works department. Have we engaged with the neighbors on this in neighborhood associations and gotten support and endorsement or comment or feedback? If it is for it, Mr. Mayor, the neighborhood requested it. Okay. Robert? Yes. All of the neighborhoods, Shandan, Wells Garden. I ask those questions too. The neighborhood that requested this is Shandan. And they voted as a Shandan neighborhood group to approve this. And this is what the confines of what are the borders? What are we talking about? Rosewood to Harden, Blossom? Divine or Old Shandan as well? I don't think it's just the Shandan neighborhood group. I didn't bring the map, but it's Harden. So generally Harden, Rosewood, Blossom, to Kilburn or to? I don't think it goes to Kilburn. I think it stops at Sims, I believe. All right. And is that the request of the neighborhood association? Okay. All right. We'll be looking at this again in a few weeks or months. When the tickets come out. All right. Is there a motion? I would move to approve it. Motion by Mr. Davis. Second by Mr. McDowell. Is that fair? How's that? Is that correct? All right. Move the previous question. I would Mr. McDowell. Yes. Mr. Duvall. Mr. Davis. Mr. Benjamin. Yes, I believe so, but it is a waste of money. I don't think that has made it all the way down. I think that's a great pedestrian and bicycle safety in Shandon. So all right. Item 34, the community development block grant disaster recovery action plan amendment number three. This is Gloria Cie community development director. Good evening, Mayor Benjamin members of City council. Community development is presenting this evening a request for approval for disaster recovery program and there are two issues that have brought the need for us to do a substantial amendment including the changes to the hazard mitigation grant program which is HMGP local cost share match program and the elimination of CBBG program income contribution of one million dollars to the minor repair program. This substantial amendment is currently out for public comments and that comment period is due to expire on October 19th and what we're asking for this evening is the approval of council for us to go ahead and submit the substantial amendment three to HUD once the public comment period is over. Any questions of Ms. Said? Is there a motion? Move approval. Second. Any discussion? Seeing none, move the previous question. I'm Clark Collarole. Mr. Newman. Aye. Mr. McDowell. Yes. Mr. Duvall. Aye. Mr. Davis. Aye. Mayor Benjamin. Aye. Thank you, Gloria. Item 35, the state health plan update, Ms. Pamela Benjamin, Chief of Staff, Human Resources Director. Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'll try to make this quicker than it was at your work session. So I just want to take this opportunity at the council meeting to remind everybody that in an effort to manage cost and provide quality health care to our active employees and our retirees that the city council approved several months ago that the city go to the state health plan to provide those benefits for us. And so I wanted to make sure that employees and retirees were aware that that decision had been made and just kind of go over a couple of things so that everybody is all on the same page as far as what's going to happen with our benefits in 2019. So the state health plan provides a lot of benefits. Here's a listing of those benefits that it provides. Everything from health, dental, vision, life insurance, and long-term disability, money plus and vision care plus program. So those are some of the benefits that are offered. You'll see in the different categories that certain benefits are offered to full time employees and retirees are offered some benefits as well. All of these are elective. Employees have the opportunity to sign up for whichever ones they feel best meet their health care needs. So those are the plans that are available or the benefits that are available. So what I wanted to do is communicate to employees and retirees that will be going through a new group enrollment session in November. That session will be the opportunity that employees have and retirees have to learn about the new benefits that are coming up in 2019 and to make sure they understand so they can make their choices for what benefits they're themselves and their families have. So just of course everybody's always concerned about premiums. These are the active employee premiums. We've sent out emails and information to active employees to let them know what the new premiums will be for the new year. And so these are those premiums. We're also in the process of sending information to retirees so that retirees are aware that we're going to the state health plan. We will no longer have Blue Cross Blue Shield and be self-insured and we will also no longer have the United Health Care supplement that we've been offering to our post 65 retirees. So Peeba determines retirement eligibility whether they're eligible for insurance or not. And then once they make that determination then an employee will either be able to pay the subsidized premium or will be able to pay a non-subsidized premium. The key here is that we have to give access to our health plan to any person that retired from from the city of Columbia or who had significant coverage, significant career service with the city of Columbia.  So we're giving them access. We're sending out a mailer to all of those individuals. The ones that are currently on our retirement insurance will be able to get a subsidized premium that they pay. The ones that are going to just gain access who haven't had coverage before, they will have an unsubsidized premium that they will pay. And just to kind of outline how that's determined if they're retiree and they were on our insurance like I said either as an active person or retiree as of 1231 2018 they were employed 630 prior to 630 2009 and had 20 years of service or after 7129 and had 25 or 28 years of service they'll be able to pay the subsidized premium. So the city will be paying a portion of that premium. The city is already going to pay our portion with the active employees as well. So that's also covered in our cost. The retirees that are not eligible for the subsidy will be those that we have to give access to because they've worked with us like I said at least 20 years and had their last five years consecutive and in a permanent position. So let's look at what these premiums look like. So again like I said before we're sending out mailers to all of our retirees. So they'll have an insurance advantage booklet and they'll also have the premium sheets.  Yes sir. These rates just to be clear since you're on the camera are monthly rates not pay period right. Absolutely. These these are monthly rates as you can see that 97 68 253 253 and 36 cents. Those are actually the rates that active employees pay. In my previous slide we we divided that by period per pay period because it's easier for people to understand that and they can know what their paycheck is going to look like. I just wanted to make sure I'm glad you made sure I clarified that. So as Councilman Reckham said these are monthly rates and as you can see there's a subsidy rates for the pre 65 and the post 65. And then there are those rates that are non subsidized. So those non subsidized rates would be the total amount the employees portion and the employers portion that that retiree would have to pay. And that would be those retirees who don't currently have coverage with us. But because we're going to the state health plan they've had 20 years of service with us five years consecutive then we would have to offer them access to the coverage. See my any questions about that. Just for further information people sets the premiums for active employees and so we would be subject to whatever the people premiums will be. And those are the premiums they set for for 2019. Those might be subject for change. Next year if people decide to increase those premiums then we would see an increase in our premiums as well. One note that I like to make is that a local subdivision which is what the city is has the right to set premiums for your retirees. And so we agree to set those premiums for our pre 65 retirees the same as our actives for this year. So everybody needs to understand also that that those retiree rates could change every year as well. So we'll have to go through a process every year of evaluating what will charge. I will stay for two years correct. Well what will happen is the subsidy rates will be whatever people charges for our active employees. If that's what we decide to do. Remember with the local subs you can change the premiums every single year. So what you're probably asking about councilman recommend is that we will have a set rate is a baseline for us. After a year of being in the state health plan they will give us what they call an experience rate which would be 2020 at this point exactly which will be 2020. So in 2020 it may be that our claims history shows that we had a lot of claims a lot of high dollar claims and they're going to pass some of that costs off to us. And so they will come back and say we're going to increase you know the rates that we're charging you by 4%. I'm just giving an example because your claims were so high or at a certain rate. And at that time we would have to decide whether or not we're going to what premiums we're going to charge our retirees based on that increased experience rate. But right now these are a baseline set premiums that the people has that we're following that people has established. Any other questions on that. So we are going to do a lot of education for our active employees and our retirees. We're going to start having education and enrollment sessions in November. They're going to start November 1st. We're sending out a schedule for all of our departments. So all of our active employees attend one of those sessions. And you'll note that we have an retiree enrollment sessions November 5th and November 20th. That information will be shared with retirees will be sending out like I said a mail or to them. We'll also be posting this presentation with the minutes so that everybody will have access to it. During the new group enrollments which are mandatory employees will sign up for their benefits for themselves or their family members. And they'll have the option to sign up for any of those benefits that are seen on the chart. So those meetings will occur. The ones on the 5th and the 20th for retirees will be at Earlwood. Some of the other ones will be at different places. Oakley Apprentice Shop. Some different locations but we're communicating that to our active employees. During those enrollment periods people will be able to enroll themselves or any eligible members of their family. And so they'll have to make sure they bring all the necessary paperwork to do that. And we will be just as a note eliminating our wellness incentive program because that's a program that we're not going to be able to continue to fund under our new health our new relationship with the state health plan. But we will be maintaining the employee health center. But we will be maintaining the employee health center. Can't we met Council Matt during executive session and made the decision that the health center will continue to run. I'm sure a lot of employees will be very happy to hear that. We are certainly hoping that that will help us with our experience rate. If employees continue to go to the health center and they continue to monitor and manage their health and hopefully they'll keep our claims down and that'll help us be more productive and have a healthier workforce. Anybody have any questions. Thank you. So I know of course it's attached to the agenda. Can we make sure that this is place in a prominent space conspicuous space on the website. So anyone can see it and find it and review it there on time. Okay. Thank you very much for your manager has the next item. First reading of ordinance number 2018 05 056 rescinding the motion to maintain the defined dollar benefit. Second. Any questions about that. Second. Any discussion. With the previous question, Kurt Colorado. Mr. Rickman. Mr. Mcdowell. Mr. Duvall. Mr. Davis. I'm here Benjamin. I thank you Mr. Benjamin. Item 37 ordinance number 2018 061 adopting the commercial revolving loan fund CRLF code revised September 26th of 2018. So motion. And this of course, Mr. Mayor, as council discussed at the work session, we will update with any edits that minor edits council made at that time on the second reading. Thank you. Second. Moved and second. Any discussion with the previous question, Kurt Colorado. Mr. Rickman. Mr. Mcdowell. Mr. Duvall. Mr. Davis. Mayor Benjamin. Item 38 ordinance number 2018 062 authorizing the city manager to execute a deed and any other documents necessary to consummate the transfer of an unopened portion of motion. Move adoption. Second. Any discussion with the previous question, Kurt Colorado. Mr. Rickman. Mr. Mcdowell. Mr. Duvall. Mr. Davis. Mayor Benjamin. Hi. Any management work session that need to be brought up? No, sir. No additional items. All right. Any report from committees or referrals? I guess Mr. Mayor, one thing that you have brought up at the Economic Development Subcommittee meeting, there was some discussion of some items that we would be bringing forward on November 6th. If that subcommittee continues to meet and or the work session and the evening meeting. Affordable housing. Regarding the affordable housing, incentive, and demolition delay. I mean, we probably, let's figure out and we can be thoughtful and let's make sure where we share as much information as possible with the public on what our plans are. I'm okay if we meet on the 6th. I mean, we normally don't meet on election day, although none of us are actually on the ballot. But if we can, I don't think we need to do a work session and a regular meeting. Is there some way in which we can condense that into a more tight timeframe? What's that? What do you all think? And I would normally advocate not having the meeting with these are some important items. We got to talk about affordable housing and make some moves there. And the demolition delay could get a little longer. I would hate to see it impacted because it would be an election day.  I assume that the we expect the demolition delay to probably a much longer discussion. Should we hold that one to a little later in the month or what you're thinking? I mean, it's it's kind of I mean, it's going to be a long discussion that day. There's no doubt. Can we is it the sense of the body that we go ahead and move forward with the consideration of the affordable housing ordinance? Obviously, we have some zoning and planning matters coming from the Commission 20 or this zoning planning issue. Okay. Okay. So but affordable housing, nonetheless, is that the only that was just what the subcommittee had asked for us to bring it back during your work session and have it on your evening meeting for approval. Committee doesn't need to meet on it. It's prepared for council as a whole. Let's let's just bring the council then and any other item can't come before us in the sex. The zoning issue. Okay. I need to probably look closer but nothing that I can think of right now. The bow on that too. But so I'm sorry. Tell me again, Mr. Mayor, how you know what you guys want? Five o'clock, six o'clock, six o'clock. Let's do six o'clock meeting. That's a meeting. Let's we will not take up demolition delay because we'll be here all night if we do. That was going back. Yeah, that was not really okay. Okay. Okay. And any other items that definitely need to be before us but can be handled in an expeditious manner. Let's we're talking no committee meeting just a straight council meeting at 6pm. You all will just work through the affordable housing with your colleagues and your doctors behind you say not says asking if we'll have executive session on the six. Sure. Just a short one. So five o'clock, five o'clock, five o'clock, five o'clock, executive session, six o'clock meeting. Okay. And you want affordable housing on there for discussion only or for also for action and action. Okay. Well, for action. All right. Your consideration. All right. All right. I didn't know the items we have on some citizens who are starting to speak. So let's uh, um, um, ma'am clerk. We have Mr. Alan Browning. He just walked out. We okay. We'll keep on miss. Is it Reggie solis? Sir evening. Dear gentlemen of the city council, I'm Reggie director of needful things that provides informational services to the homeless to help them survive being homeless. I'm also a board member of homeless helping homeless and advocacy group for the homeless. At United Way. I'm a steering committee member for the meals share program and a member of the Midlands Area Consortium for the homeless or mock. I'm here to hopefully see some changes in the ways Columbia's homeless community is treated. I don't expect an answer to these concerns tonight, but we'll return next month to find out if these items are something that you can help make a change. The first question during Hurricanes Florence and Matthew, why was the inclement weather center not open? These were very serious storms that killed people. I think it was a serious enough that we owe it to those that have no shelter to protect them. Oh, yes, sir. Is that copies of the next two items news articles for each of you. I don't expect you to read them right now, but I will hope that you will take the time to read them and consider them carefully. The first one being on September 4th, 2018 in case of Martin versus the city of Boise, the ninth circuit district ruled that the eighth amendments prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment bars a city from prosecuting criminal people criminally for sleeping outside on public property when those people have no home or other shelter to go to. The case Martin versus the city of Boise dealt with two ordinances in the city of Boise, the prohibited sleeping or camping in certain public areas. The court noted that similar to here in Columbia only has three shelters. The shelters are often in capacity and severely restrictive rules for access. And at least two shelters force those seeking shelter to submit to intensive crits Christian indoctrination or face removal. Each week I hear about our own Columbia police telling folks they have to leave Finley Park. So they go to the post office and get woken between three and six a.m. and told they cannot be there. There is no other place to go. Third, in the case of Los Angeles versus LeVon, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Archive, did you know LeVon versus LA also determined that the personal possessions of homeless people who have gone to work, gone to shower or gone to run errands, etc., leaving their possessions on city property are not to be considered abandoned, but are unsupervised. Therefore, they cannot be seized unless they pose an immediate threat to public health or safety or evidence of a crime or contraband. Again, I hear countless stories of personal belongings being taken and disposed of. You realize what things are being thrown away. If you were to lose your home, what would you take with you? clothes, food, items of personal value, things like the only pictures of family, your parents, kids, friends, relatives you have, maybe a watch or broach of your mothers or fathers, your family and Bible, these things cannot be replaced. I'm hoping you, our city council, will try to see that those who are less fortunate than the norm are treated with respect and courtesy, not impossible circumstances, impossible arrest. Columbia and South Carolina have a reputation for being one of the last cities or states to accept new policy. I like to see the state in which I live to be a leader on these topics, an example to others that we care about our fellow beings. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Solis. I'm coming back to you. You didn't miss your turn. Don't worry. You didn't miss your turn. Yeah, thank you. And some of those that poses questions would be happy to let's spend some time over the next month getting you answers to them. I do want to make sure I respond to your very initial request. It's the location of the inclement and weather center that stopped us from opening it up during the storms. Where it is located right there by the canal, with some of the issues we have the canal in 2015, would put people in peril if something bad happened at the canal. And that's why we work with transitions to make sure transitions waived its rules. So I just want to make sure you knew that there's an answer to that question. And I realized that for a number of various reasons, certain people have been banned and even at those times not allowed to come in. No, that's not no, that's not true. Transitions is opened up the doors to even people who have been banned transitions and then during during the storms during the storms and not but that's but we can we can talk more about that. But that's the reason why the inclement weather center was no. And the reason we open it, the reason why we fund it is certainly because of situations with extreme heat, extreme cold, and yes, extreme rain. However, it would not be the right thing to do to put people down there in peril when we have some of these hurricanes. And so we won't do it. Maybe we should try to find a new location. Okay, absolutely. The whole lot of things we could do. Maybe we can do some things together. All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Mr. Browning. And then and everyone recognize when when the when the when the buzzer starts going off, that means we got to wrap it up as best we can. But thank you. But thank you, Mr. Solis. First of all, I apologize for being underdressed and then put my little loud John. You look more you look more comfortable than we found out about a city council meeting the first time I've ever been here. So I'm actually guys that listen. Me and my wife several months ago started an organization called Hearts for the homeless and homeless veterans. I would like to point out that nearly 70% of Americans homeless that you see are veterans that serve in the military from, you know, Vietnam on down to the to the to the recent war. I just want to put that out there. I've done the demographics on it. And me and my wife feed at this park. I see this gentleman a lot that just spoke. He was eloquent. I'm not that eloquent. So y'all work with me. And I see this young lady here who was abused by the city police. What bothers me is that you have one entity in the city that gives me a permit to go down and feed the homeless, but proud of me getting there on two occasions in the last month, the homeless was ran off before I got there to feed them. There was only a few stragglers hanging around. The city police or whomever took a dump truck took all their belongings, woke this young lady up by putting their foot on her and took their belongings. Some of the people came back there are people in that park that has jobs that receive social security, but they can't afford a first month rent or deposit or deposit for a light bill to get out of that situation. People don't want to be there. You're looking at a product of a homeless person. I'm a minister now. One of the under ministers at the Living Award International Church. As people that don't want to be down there, we assume sometime by looking at a person and not knowing their story, we would assume the worst will have the worst picture in our head of a homeless people. There are skilled people down there, carpenters that go out to labor places and come back. There's camps down there. And they're never really in the way. They're always on the outskirts of this park in the woods areas camping. And nobody bothered about them. Had no problem with those guys actually really being there until Shakespeare in the park came this last week. And it just, you know, and I just want what I came is to complain about that and also make a request to you guys. I'm new at this charity thing. I'm very certified by 1C3, have my mark him and I went through everything out of my pocket. Me and my wife, what we do on Mondays, we do out of our pocket. We have a small cleaning business now. And again, I'd like to reiterate, I was homeless. I ate in that park. I ate at Christ Central. I'm a product of a person that don't want to be there. That wanted to go to another level in life. And there's several people down there that wants to not be there. So what I'm asking, I'm asking, I'm asking for help. And if y'all can appoint somebody to help me, I want to tap into grants or something. I don't even have to control the grants. I just want to be the person that brings it. This guy wants to get out of the park. He can get 700 a month on Social Security, but he can't afford a deposit of somebody right to check to get him in that situation. That's what I'm trying. I got a big vision, but I don't have no understanding of how to accomplish those things. So I'm asking the city council for help. Put me with somebody that know how to write grants, or even if the city has a grant like they do for the hip hop thing every every year, that they want to fund into getting people out of that situation. There's real people down there that has real stories that have served this country, have paid their taxes, have fell on hard times, and people brushed them away. And as long as this camera's showing, it's thank you for your service. Or as long as a Christmas season, we just have a big heart during Christmas. Within the rest of the year, nobody ever really does anything. Now I'm going to speak from experience.  I'm in an organization, but every Christmas season, every Walmart, every city, every state, and every European country, these people raise money. But if you go there and ask for some monetary help, like for a bill, they never have it. Most of the monies are being used for staff. I'm assuming board of directors. I'm not sure of that. But staff, vehicles, and stuff that's not actually used for those people. It's used to go get closed, to sell clothes, you know, getting free things that they're selling. And the biggest, as I said, FARS is a non-profit organization. Somebody's profiting. Mr. Browning? Can I have one more thing I want to make? Yeah, please. Federal law, less than 10% of every dollar this raise had to be used for said cause. Other 90% of what? I googled it. I didn't hear what you said. For what? Less than 10% of every dollar that you give to a non- profit has to be used by federal mandate for said cause. The other 90% is for overheads, staff. That's not right. But we can't control how the federal government regulates that. I don't understand the city council can't, you know, change. Sure. I assume you're talking about 501C3 regulations. Yes, but I'm getting off of what I'm talking about. No, it's alright. Would you raise your hand, sir? Talk to the Office of Kara Zales right now. Let's make sure we share information and we'll have some more dialogue over the next month or so. Okay. Appreciate the work that you and your wife are doing. And I do want to make sure that we are very clear and transparent in sharing all the things that are going on right now and work that we're doing to make sure that all of our citizens sheltered or not. No, you can't. Treated with dignity and respect. But no, but we'll have a whole lot of time to dialogue. Let's talk and see what the work we can do. I appreciate the work you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Office of Kara Zales. Can you touch with you mirror? Yes, I'm with him every day. I'm with him more than with my wife. Okay. Watch everything. That didn't sound right, but it's true.  Yeah, yeah, indeed. But we appreciate y'all. All right. All right. All right. Thank you. And Mr. Solis, would you talk to Officer Kara Zales too? All right. The Ms. Mona, I can't read your last name or pronounce it properly. So you're going to have to try to help me out with that. Okay. It's easy. Denzeletta Denzeletta Denzeletta the second day silent Denzeletta. Okay. The reason I'm here is Councilman Davis was at our Neighborhood Association meeting in Hyatt Park came in terrace last night. And what we brought up was the monies that have been set aside that we've been told about for Hyatt Park. I've only lived in Columbia since January of 14. And all I've heard since then was yep, we got half the money. It's sitting in a bank account. The other half's coming. Well, last year we were told the other half was ready. So hopefully with the improvement of the North Main project for the streetscaping and everything like that, that Hyatt Park's renovation would finally take place. Well, we're starting to hear rumors that the money that had been set aside and the additional money to complete the project. Oh no, now that's in the being airmarked for somebody's special project going to Finley Park or something else. So we brought it up last night at our Neighborhood Association because I live in Keenan Terrace. That that park is in the heart of my neighborhood. It could be a crown jewel, especially with the elderly housing that's going in with the widening of the street. It'd be really nice to have a park that everybody can make use of. And Councilman Davis suggested that we come down here and talk and on the short notice, you get me. And what I really want to ask you all is, according to my neighbors, they've been hearing this promise for seven plus years. Is the rumor true? Which one? You had a few of them there. A few rumors. The money has been airmarked for Hyatt Park. It has not been moved. No money that has been set aside for Hyatt Park has been dedicated to any other park in the city. But yes, we have had some fairly tight budget years and we move forward with the renovations of Orwood Park, Oriental Park, Greenview Park, which I'm missing. And we're going to continue investing in our park system. Yes, including Finley Park. But that will not be to the exclusion of Hyatt Park. We're still moving forward. I think we've got some pretty aggressive designs. And obviously we move forward some smaller grant-funded projects over there with the pollinated gardening and in the community gardens as well. And we're still committed to making that happen. So I would encourage you to not believe the rumor mill, to continue to engage with your councilman. He fights hard for Hyatt Park every year. But it's against the backdrop of just X amount of resources. And maybe need to spend some time between you all and staff. Kind of figure out where we are in this next budget cycle. And maybe you and Randy, if you want to speak to that, Randy specifically. I don't need to interrupt you. One of the things that we had asked about was even if we could break up, you know, look at the designs in such a way that they could be done in stages. So that the money that had been allocated. I think that's what we're doing. I think that's what we're actually doing. Because one of the things that's happened with that lovely streetscaping is they've torn down all the trees that used to kind of beautify along the street. All those are gone. And I think we actually are phasing the project as a matter of fact. So maybe like the Director of Parks and Recreation speak to it. And as I said, we'll speak to it tonight. And then at the next meeting, Randy and the appropriate staff will also come. I'm just following your orders. As I said last night, this is your house. Let's get some clarity now and then let's follow up with some more. We're moving forward with phase one development of the project at Hyatt Park, which includes some grant money that we've been creatively been able to secure to open up the daylighting the stream. Who are we talking about? So daylight in the stream, walking path, amphitheater, walking path, green space, sculpture, garden, splash pad, playground. Those are some of the things that will be accomplished. Phase one, timeline wise, what's the timeline? We anticipated going out on the streets in the next week or two. So that phase, which again encompasses what? The encompasses daylighting the stream, walking path, amphitheater, sculpture, garden, splash pad, and playground. We'll be bid out in the next couple of weeks. So Mona, you tell your neighbors that you came to the counseling and you and Mr. Davis got it done. Ms. Denzeletta, I can't hear you. Speak up. Come on. It's okay. When it goes out for bid, what's the time frame? What would you what would you guesstimate? 40 to 60 days, ma'am, and we'll be happy to come and update you all at the appropriate time. I think that's what we would like is to have somebody update us. And we'll be happy to do that. It's also it's also important to note that that the vast majority, although he didn't like to hear it and he likes to disagree with me, the vast majority of parks dollars in the city of Columbia of the last several years have all gone to the North Main Corridor, have all not gone straight up North Main. So I want folks, I want folks, I understand, yeah, but but folks folks folks like to say that we want more, we want more, we want more. And the reality is that the vast majority have literally gone to parks up and down that corridor in district one, district two, I think once once uh once some money uh to make some things happen so but we're moving forward to Hyatt Park. We waited 12 years. It would take an action of this council to reallocate funds. So some information that's just thrown out there just doesn't really even make sense. Okay. Yeah. I mean I'm going to say here so maybe so the next so the next so by the time you have the next council meeting the bid the bids will be out on the street uh Mr. Davis and Mr. Davis and Mr. Davis and come and uh and uh share the renderings maybe in a in a broader way but tell them it's get it's getting done like it always does. All right. Thank you. All right. Um and the last person, Alana Jackson. Ms. Jackson. Mr. Mayor and City Council, my name is Alana Jackson. I come in in reference to your city police department. Um I am one of the ones that's been homeless not because I want to be homeless because like circumstances however I have um talked to you before on Main Street however I've called your officer several times and I do know that you're a very busy person so I'm very patient but why I am waiting I do not need the police department to throw away my belongings. They throw away nitroglycerin for my heart. They throw away my blood brushing medicine. They didn't give us a warning. I asked I said can I get a warning to give me some time. They gave me a one hour window. If I had some place to put those things that I would have had them there and also myself never been homeless before so this is something brand new to me. They cart me from the park at 9 o'clock to go to the post office just close at 9 o'clock and at 531 you kicking on me. I am not an animal and I choose not to be treated as though. However I have an interview tomorrow at the uh at a nursing home. I am an RN but I have no place you know no place to be to make my hygiene right or wherever where I can be and take care of myself as a 52 year old woman. I don't want to be in family park to stay. I don't want to stay at the post office but when I am there your the office of the Columbia police department needs to be on one accord. They need to get things together because that's not what their mission statement states. Their mission statement states that they're courageous that they're understanding that they will talk to you communication and you know understanding this stuff that's not what their mission statement states and because of the things that their chiefs and different things from a long time ago has done you know what I'm saying. I really don't trust them but however they are the law and I will obey the laws of the land because I am a human being and then however when that park was fun team park I went to free school that one thing free school. When I was when I was a little girl I grew up in this area you know what I'm saying and it's a whole bunch of things that's going on in the city of Columbia that's not causing to what it stands for. You understand you know what I mean. So therefore like you were saying as far as the shelters are concerned I'm not going to transitions because I was bit up by bed bugs I had to go to the hospital. I had a fever and I can't go there so I have to sleep outside but when I am outside I would choose not for nobody to put their feet on me and because I am somebody I am not in ammo again. I have went through the Columbia Housing Authority which I've never asked anybody before anything because I've always worked to get what I needed for myself my husband until death took him away so it's my circumstance that happens and therefore I've been on that list for three years they say they have a five thousand slot window you know what I'm saying but they got a thousand slots that's open okay a lot of those people that's waiting on house doors already have a place to where they can go and stay at. I don't you see what I'm saying so therefore I need some immediate help I need some right now help sir I don't need no later on I'm 52 years old I don't want to be in the streets these people are crazy out here I walk down main street I can't even get past sidewalks got all these nice restaurants and just then other I know they didn't give me a 52 year old woman a place to be at I've never asked the city of Columbia for anything and I'm asking now that I need to be I need to be housed somewhere I need my things back that the city of Columbia police department threw away like I was an animal they did not care he that man told me I went to internal affairs on him that man how you gonna pedestrian act in the park now if I go to somebody's job interview they see it on my record but they don't even know what that is that could be somebody in naked or whatever in the park you wait I mean what how much can I explain that they could keep me from getting a good job have you also looked at Toby's place ma'am as a potential I have I have looked at Toby's space with Toby's place is like Fort Knox I choose not to be in Fort Knox right now I choose I mean when he took that he took all my things away they take in everything I've lost my house I've lost my car I've lost my husband now you trying to take away my dignity I'm talking about the city police department Columbia Police Department and I am somebody I have looked at that but I'm talking about I need some right now have I have an interview in the morning that I could just you know really have me a really good job paying $13 an hour but I have no place to go you know saying I have I can't go to sister care because I'm not being abused I am being abused by the city police department but nothing happens I went to the sergeant I went to the I went to the chain of command I went to internal affairs you know say you're writing a ticket for what because I haven't done anything to try to live we'll talk some of Jackson I'd I'd hope that you'd reconsider transitions and Toby's place both as since as they're both options for sheltering in the interim as opposed to sleeping in the street but let's talk some more about that okay all right and and be happy to help you with the housing authority as much as we can to all right okay so um I'm just asking for someone to help me right now I need some help right now because I need to be at this job in the morning thank you thank you miss Jackson all right then know the citizens who sound to speak is there a motion to adjourn move second move second any discussion with a previous question court color all recommend right Mr. McDowell Mr. Duvall Mr. Davis Mayor Benjamin all right have a good evening


I'm standing here in downtown State College in front of something that people don't see every day, but people are starting to see more and more in many of our cities and towns. This is a rain garden, also called a bioswale, that's part of a new design strategy. A lot of towns and cities in America are beginning to use called green infrastructure. And green infrastructure simply means that landscape can be used to provide ecosystem services and benefits to urban places. A green infrastructure installation like this rain garden is meant to trap runoff from the surrounding streets, like here in State College, and allow it to infiltrate into the soil and also to capture pollution that might make its way eventually to downstream environments. This is but one type of green infrastructure solution that many planners in our urban cities and towns are starting to use. Another one you may have seen is called a green roof, such as the one on top of Penn State's forestry building. A third type of green infrastructure is called porous pavement, which is simply a new type of sidewalk or street that allows water to infiltrate directly into the soil rather than running off to downstream rivers and streams. While State College only has a few of these green infrastructure installations to date, it's the hope of many planners, ecologists and urban designers that these sorts of types of installations can be used in a matrix and blanket the city to provide flood protection, pollution control, and downstream stormwater management for cities and towns of all sizes.


Super duper. Okay, so we're going to do a very quick change over now. I'm going to hand over to Nombilo, who's come all the way from Stelenbosch University. And the floor is yours for the next 20 minutes. Thank you. Good morning. So, still morning afternoon everybody. My name is Nombilo Chuma and I am a lecturer and researcher at Stelenbosch University in the Centre for Higher and Adult Education. So my specific role, our Centre, we're kind of academic development sort of because all our students are academics and they are doing their studies in higher education or adult education, post-grad diploma, master's program and PhD program. And my specialisation is educational technology. So in the course of doing another study, I became very frustrated with the literature around the way ed tech is used in post-grad supervision. There's a lot that is said and done around teaching and learning specifically for undergrad students. But for post-grad supervision, it's actually quite frustrating, hence the study that I did. And hopefully the paper will be out soon and you can see it. But anyway, we all know that one of the biggest issues with the research in our field in educational technology is the fact that people are coming from every way. You've just spoken about that. The fact that people come into this field from everything. I came from computer science. We're sitting in a room the other day. Someone else was from agriculture. We were all specialists. But someone else started from agriculture. We had someone who had come in from archaeology. We had someone who had come in here, a master's in music. So he was a concert pianist but ended up as a tell researcher as well. So people come in from all walks of life, which is fine. We're not complaining about that. What we are complaining about is the fact that people have their own research in their disciplines. And then they publish one paper or do one little research around ed tech. And now we're all specialists. That's what is frustrating. I think you know what I'm talking about. So when you read some of those papers, I was doing this, as I said, for another study. I got quite frustrated with it and decided to do kind of a review and see what is actually out there. What are people saying? How are they conceptualizing technology when they're talking about postgraduate supervision? Anyway, so that's what this is about. So I did a little study and I did a scoping review. And that was the initial question that I started with. What is the role of technology in mediating postgraduate supervision? You'll see that's my question, but my results ended up somewhere else. So my results don't quite align with the research question. Please forgive me. You will see that later. And then step number three, a few things also changed. First of all, I had to use only English text because I do not speak a lot of the other languages, like Spanish and Dutch and whatever else. But also the years, I'd said 2000 up to February 2023, because that's when I had submitted the abstract, where I submitted it soon after that. But unfortunately, that kind of skews the results per year. So you'll find my results go up only up to the end of 2022. But this had been the original plan. And then the other thing that I struggled with when I was looking for articles was what we call in South Africa, predatory journals. I don't know if that's a term that you have here and that you use, but it's quite frustrating because it compromises the quality of the studies. You look at the paper and you're thinking, what is going on here? How is this even a research article? So I had to eliminate quite a lot of papers that I had found. And as a result, ended up with just 61 papers over these years. And I'll talk about the countries and they're spread over 71 countries. Okay, so these are the countries where the research itself is based. It was interesting for me. I don't know if you can read the country names, but the United Kingdom is the top with 13. And South Africa is second, the USA and Australia. Those are the four top countries. It was interesting for me that South Africa was placed there because there is a lot of talk about how we don't have much research coming from the global south, particularly in higher education studies, which EdTech is a part of. And I wondered whether it was because I was doing my search from South Africa. And maybe that was why I was able to access that I'm not sure. But anyway, so these are the countries. And you'll find, sadly, of course, South America is not represented here at all. Some parts of Europe are not represented at all. And a lot of that has to do with language, I'm sure. And the other thing I have to mention here, or maybe let me mention it on the next slide, you'll find, I don't have a pointer. So this is the same thing that you have on the previous slide, just on the map. You'll find obviously the UK is the darkest because that's the one with the highest number followed by South Africa, the US and Australia. The others are lighter because they all range between two or one. But what was interesting for me, now I have two of them. Okay, I'll just talk about it because I don't know where to go, was that you'll find Ethiopia, if you know where Ethiopia is based over there, right at the top. So you'll find the studies that were done here were actually done by researchers in South Africa. Okay, so it's interesting because this is at UNISA, which is our largest distance learning institution, the University of South Africa. And they were looking at specifically PhD students who are based in Ethiopia. So they did the study there because they have a campus there, but it's under, so it was difficult to figure out so which country is this based actually, because they are doing the study since the students are registered here, but they are based over there. So it's the same thing with Indonesia, the student based here, but the researchers are based here. That's why you end up with more countries than studies in some instances because of instances like that. If I had also included all the countries from which the researchers came from, there would have been more countries. So it's a little bit confusing because I'm assuming sometimes maybe the researcher moved before the research was published. So the institution is here, the students are over there, but the researcher is over that side. And unfortunately, I won't be able to go into some other interesting details. Maybe I can just mention this right about time. I can just mention that when you look at the profiles of the researchers who published these studies and you see where they published and you do that comparison, it's quite interesting to see those who are publishing on postgraduate supervision already specifically. The quality of the papers is very different from those who are not. And also when you look at the kinds of journals, all of those comparisons are quite interesting. But anyway, let me move on. So these were the studies. I wanted to start from 2000, but I couldn't get any papers at that time. So started from 2007 up to 2022. I had included part of 2023, but it kind of skewed the graph when it went down. So I thought, let me leave it out so that we can see that growth and that projection. And obviously you will see 2020, 21, and 22. The numbers went up a bit, especially 21 and 22. And we all know a lot of that was because of the pandemic. So most of the studies during that time were kind of doing comparisons between students who had done face to face before and students who are now online or had to be forced to move online for their supervision, the supervision of their postgraduate research specifically. I'm rushing because I want to get to the results. Sorry, I can hardly breathe. Okay, so when you look at the journals, where the research was published, I had assumed initially that EdTech and distance learning would probably be the highest number, but there were just 15 that were published in EdTech and distance learning journals. And then there were some discipline based, for example, in medical education or linguistics or psychology education or something like that. And then there were just five articles that were published specifically in postgraduate education journals. So the greatest number was in teaching and learning journals specifically, which was quite interesting for me. And I think it's an important point to consider. It shows that researchers aren't really separating postgraduate education from teaching and learning, number one. But then it also shows that we're not focusing just on the tool, but we're looking at what the tool enables, what it allows us to do. Okay, I can breathe. I get to my results now. All right, actually maybe before I talk about the results, you have to see it in the paper. All right, so there were a number of things that came out from the actual analysis of the articles. I'll focus here on two main ones, which is why I said my question related to the role of technology. But you'll find here I'm talking about location and I'm talking about the means or the process that it justifies the end. Okay, so those are the two, if you remember nothing else, please remember this about what I said. Okay, so I'll elaborate on that. So location is everything. This is talking about contextual descriptions of the studies. So you'll find some of them had such beautifully rich descriptions, beautifully rich descriptions where you could see, oh, this is the institution. Oh, those are the kinds of issues that they struggle with. Oh, okay, so this issue actually makes sense. They will tell you about the higher education system and where postgraduate education fits in and so on. There was one paper, I couldn't figure out where in the world the research was actually done. And then I just assumed it's probably the US because they don't mention it in the paper at all. They talk a little bit about the students, but they don't tell us anything. So I said it's probably the US because the three of them are in the US, so I'll just make that assumption because they don't tell us anything about the context at all. So there were great variations in terms of that. So the location of the study and the researchers have already talked a little bit about that, that sometimes they were not located in the same place. And then who the journal publisher was, was also important in terms of what journal it was. It was also important in terms of what was included in the explanation of the context. And then there were very few articles that looked at critical issues like power dynamics. I mean, you are not going to read an article relating to supervision practice that doesn't talk about power dynamics. But it's interesting how those important issues around postgraduate education are kind of glossed over. And then there was also variation in terms of sensitivity to a diverse student population. So there were some which talked about what they would call minority groups or certain cultural groups. Like for example, in Australia they would research Indonesian students only. In instances like that, there were interesting comments around the cultural identity and that kind of thing. But I worried there about their sensitivity in terms of that. And then large or small samples here, what I'm talking about is you find there's a variation. Some have larger samples, some have small samples. Of course, some are looking at 11 students, some were looking at 600 or 700 students. And what does that mean for the way that you explain the context and the way that you see students as deficit or missing in something and then making sweeping assumptions based on that kind of sample size. So anyway, the point I'm making here is that it's very important to describe the context of the student because each student is different. And if you miss out on that, then you miss out on actually showing how your study is making a contribution. The second point is the means justifies the end. There were great variations in terms of methodological and theoretical rigor. Quite a number of studies used surveys. And for any of us here who've used surveys, you know that the design of the survey is important. The testing of the survey is important and so on. And they just mentioned in passing, oh, we used the survey, blah, blah, blah. We don't get an example of the survey. We don't know where the survey came from and that kind of thing, which for me speaks to the quality of the study. A lot of the studies use things like case studies. This is a case study about what, what, what. But we don't see how it's a case study. Already a case study, you need to have multiple data collection methods for you to consider it a case study. You have to identify what the case is and so on. So all of those kinds of things were missing. I have to skip some of this. But anyway, understanding of methodology and theoretical framework. Yeah, that was an interesting one. Theoretical framework. Someone would speak about the theoretical framework. There was one particular article spoke about the theoretical framework. Well, that was the title of the subheading. And below that, they were talking about storyboarding. And I was thinking, how is storyboarding the theoretical framework? But anyway, and then the theorization of technological tools and supervision processes. The point I'm making here in that theorization and the last point, because I want to get to my last slide and my time is almost up, is that it's actually difficult to figure out whether the paper is making a contribution or not in some instances when some of these issues are missing. So you look at the paper and you think, is this paper making a contribution to educational technology? Or is this paper making a contribution to post-graduate education? Or post-graduate supervision? Or is it making a contribution to both? Is there a way that we could position the paper in some way so that we can make a more complex kind of contribution to both fields or to both sides? And for some of the papers, they gloss over both of those things. They seem to be an assumption, oh, okay, if I bring in post-graduate supervision and educational technology, very few people have done that. So that should be a contribution in itself. But it ignores what's been done with EdTech for so many years. And it ignores what's been done with post-graduate supervision for so many years. They just pick, cherry pick a few things which are important for them. Okay, I have three minutes left. I conclude in slide. I will leave you with some questions to think about. And so what do we mean when we are talking about a contribution to knowledge? When we look at the multidisciplinary nature of our field. So if this works here, will it really work somewhere else? How do we really know? What do we mean by a contribution to the field? And how does the human element influence the way we think about various critical issues that we've already looked at? All right, and then the last one. What about our positionality as researchers? What does that mean for our research and for our students and post-graduate supervision in this particular instance? Okay, I will kind of stop there. I had a lot to say here, but I'm worried about my time. You still have three minutes if you want to carry on. Okay, I have three minutes. All right, so in terms of the first, I'll do a minute for each. In terms of the first point, I've already talked about how we can bring together fields which haven't necessarily always been brought together, but that doesn't mean that is a contribution. There has to be some element which shows that it really is a contribution. And then for my second point, how does the human element influence the way we think about these various critical issues when we're researching technology integration? So what motivates one student may actually be crippling for another. You find in some of the studies that I looked at, they'll talk about isolation during the pandemic and how some students totally collapsed. They were collapsed. They couldn't move forward. They couldn't, but for some students, that was actually enabling, it was an enabling environment for them. And they found when they were independent from their supervisors, they made more progress than they would have made before. And then in the, well, the top part, particularly the western northern part of Africa, online degrees are not, they're actually looked down upon. If you say, oh no, I got my doctorate online. They don't really value it as a doctorate. So what does that mean for the way we integrate technology at post-grad level for students? And then of course, when you look at our positionality within our institutions and we look at our practice, a lot of those studies are driven by practice, right? They're driven by the needs of the institutions. But are they really going to contribute to research or not? Okay, so there isn't always alignment between what is needed for practice and what we're supposed to do for research. Yeah, and then when we look at technological innovations like generative AI now, what does that mean in terms of our position? Our institutions want us to be engaging with that, but what does it mean for our research? What does it mean for our post-grad students or other students? I'll stop there. Thank you. That is our campus, by the way, the first slide and the last slide. Those are the steps down to our library. You have an underground library. Okay, thank you, Nampala. Can we have any questions from the audience?  So I'll let you in a second. Hello. So I've actually got a question in terms of the analysis you did for the authors, for the researchers. Were they all based in the country? Like, for example, you had, I think, 12 for South Africa. I don't know for Ethiopia how much you had, but you saw that there was researchers in South Africa, but the students were in Ethiopia. Did you look at where the researchers based, whether they were collaborative, like someone in South Africa, someone in UK or something like this. Have you seen any such thing? If you're looking at South Africa specifically, the collaborations were only within the country. But in other spaces, they were interesting collaborations. I spoke about the Indonesia example. I'd actually written it here in my notes. So thanks for asking the question. What was interesting for me with that one was the supervisors. There were three supervisors. They collaborated with the student in the actual research and the writing and publication of the paper. So I felt when you read the study, it really brings some interesting cultural and contextual issues, which I don't think would have come out otherwise without the student being part of the study or being part of the research. So I don't know if that answers your question. Yeah, you did. So it was basically joint collaboration in the actual research, not just like the survey. And I was going to say, probably, if you do this research in the UK, Mauritius will not come up. That's where I'm from. So I was surprised that they didn't even came up. Because if I search for any research here, no, it doesn't come up. So maybe that speaks to my first question also here. So where you do the search from? Yes. Yeah, so I guess I have one question and one kind of comment reflection. So when you had your heat map up across the world and the timelines of when those research was published, there was that uptick in the last couple of years, pandemic, post-pandemic. It would be interesting to understand what the distribution of those most recent publications were from your global map. So for example, the UK and South Africa, actually did a lot of that publishing happen in the last couple of years or is it spread throughout the whole of your timeline? So I can remember a few of those. Definitely the UK was included and South Africa. I remember the paper from Nigeria also comes in during that time and there was a paper from Pakistan. So a few of those single papers on that map actually came out during that time, quite a lot of them. And my kind of second point, that's more reflection is it's interesting when you were doing your sorting through your papers to try and account for some of the biases. I think that's probably the right word to use. So the research is kind of separate and not being influenced in other ways that you also found problems around the richness and of the data versus the lack of information in some areas. And I'm wondering if you did the reverse procedure. So look to all of the papers that you discounted, whether it be the same picture that you'll get a difference in richness and context. It's just a thought, like what would the reverse study look like? Yeah, no, I didn't do that kind of study. No, sorry. Yeah, it's just a comment. Thank you. Any further questions? Yeah, I'll work this way. Thanks, that was so interesting. And what struck me and just wanted to ask you about this was you sort of talked about your research questions and what you were interested in looking into at the beginning. And what you've told us about was kind of about that you're kind of what you found interesting or kind of frustrating or limitations of the actual sample that you were able to collect. And so is the article that you talked about, are you actually kind of going into the findings in relation to the research questions? Or was your main finding more that you weren't really able to answer those because of the kind of the nature of the research that you were able to collect? That's actually what I'm doing. So in the article that I'm writing, I speak quite a bit about my own positionality because you can tell from my complaints kind of where I stand. And then the fact that this is where the study started and this is what I wanted to find out, but then realized it's not as clear-cut as I would want it to be. In some instances I had to make assumptions, some I've told you about. And then in some instances, they're talking about an online program, but you'll find they don't really talk about the technology. But you know when they're speaking about communication or when they're speaking about feedback, they've never met the students. So obviously they are using some form of technology, but they just don't mention it. They don't think it's important. I'm not saying that's necessarily a problem. I'm just saying, so it made it difficult to then really figure out so what is the role? Okay, so it's just enabling these different things. I thought I could go deeper than that, but it wasn't always possible. And that's what I'm kind of addressing in the paper again. I'm looking forward to the paper. Sounds really good. Thanks. Thanks for that. I fully get the comment that you made early in your presentation, that you started with the research question, but then answered something completely different. Well, not completely, but something different. But I think in this difference, what you've actually examined, if I may or as I interpret it, is a meta-reflection on research quality. And effectively I'm wondering now whether this paper or the research that you did actually is quite helpful in identifying what makes less good and better research in the postgraduate context. So when postgraduate students are embarking on their research journey, then I mean, could you translate your findings almost in the course or integrated in the research methods course? Because I think it is quite suitable for that. Yeah, I think it would be suitable, but it's also helpful in South Africa we've got quite a lot of what you call this supervision training courses for academic stuff. And I run some of them with my colleagues. So stuff like this has been useful for that kind of space actually, getting them to just think differently. So you're saying you want to use technology, but have you really thought about what that means for you, for your students and for what you want to accomplish with your students? So thanks for the comment. Yeah, and then sorry. I think you mentioned, can I just say this? I've forgotten earlier to mention it in the presentation. When I gave the list of countries, there were three papers that didn't specify the countries, besides the one that I spoke about. The one is looking at a blog and the way users have used it. So it's kind of a worldwide kind of thing. So they, yeah. And then the other one, interviewed supervisors across the African continent who were part of a supervision course that we were actually teaching. So it was difficult to say from this country or from that country because it was an anonymous survey. And then there was also a third one that just says four universities in four countries. And there were only three authors there. So I didn't know what would be the fourth country. So I kind of left those three out in that list. Just saying. Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much. And that just about concludes the session. So I'd like to thank the audience for being great and participating. And for those of you who've listened online and then a final show of appreciation for Non-Pilo and a very interesting presentation.