I have to interrupt you, but we do have some breaking news and now breaking a key number here And we've got to go to the floor of the exchange. We won't bring you back very soon, but I want to go now to Susan Lee Susan Dow Jones industrial average up almost 500 points more than 2% Give us a give us the latest on this this leg of this rally today Okay, so I've been on the phones and talking to a few traders and volatility Of course part of this game now that we're in this algorithmic program trading world that we are So yes, we're bouncing back after the those sold-down levels that we saw Breaking some key technical levels and people saw that as a bargain Especially a lot of these as I said program trades I said, okay now it's time to kick in and pick up some of these big tech names in particular So take a look at the NASDAQ right now We're driving the gains here with those big technology names some of them reporting after hours That includes Amazon alphabets are better known as Google today And yeah, that's the talk right now on the trading floor is that we have bargains The growth story is still intact and you see a lot of cheap names out there to pick up Susan Lee, thank you very much. Let's go to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and find out what the traders are talking about down there Jerry will yeah Charles. That's right So I'm on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange with the trading is really occurring today We are up 501 points on the Dow. That's 2% the S&P 500 up 65 points That's 2.48 percent but take a look at the NASDAQ up 3.4 per 747 percent 252 points. This is a big game for the NASDAQ. What are they talking about down here? Well, they're talking about bargain hunting They're talking about finding stocks that they think are doing very well indeed. It's interesting yesterday stocks were getting punished for good news today They're getting Trading higher on good news. You see what happened to Microsoft a good report. They're now up 5 percent. We're watching Intel They're gonna be reporting soon after the close that stock doing well. Here's what's leading the Dow higher Microsoft Intel We just talked about them VISA Cisco those stocks at the top. We're also looking at alphabet that company are having already Reported it's done very well. We're waiting for Amazon here Big news in the earnings. I gotta tell you the conversation down here is less focused on say trade less focused say on the comments coming out of the Fed today We're are we gonna get more rate hikes and more focused on what is that? What's gonna happen with the election in less than two weeks concerns about what happens with Trump's top priorities what happens with with taxes what happens with Healthcare will he be able to pursue those things or will it be stopped if the Democrats take the house? Of course, we've been looking at that for some time now, but good news here the Dow 494 points to the upside the S&P up 65 nasdaq composite up 251 as a 3.5 percent game coming into today Remember what we saw was that the nasdaq was in correction territory, right? And we saw that the Dow and the S&P had sold off to the point that all of the gains of the year were wiped out But this is improving at this point The question is will it hold and what I've been told here on the floor is that they want to see this market finish well above 250 points that would show some conviction in what's going on in the marketplace right now It would mean that buyers are really coming in at this point that they're committed to the market And there's certainly one of the questions that people are asking is this a dead cat bounce or is this real at 500 points? You really got to like it back to you Charles Thank you very very much want to bring in Kevin Kelly a metro shells back with us also joining us from stock solution Melissa Armo To pick up on what Jerry was saying one of the things I liked about this rally all day Is that it's being led by the one the names you want to lead it? Technology your top three weightings in technology apples 24 per 21 percent of it Microsoft 17 percent visa is 5 percent We know Microsoft and visa reported good numbers the market's responding well to it And of course buyers always seem a list of the flock back into Apple So you've got leadership there Intel reports after the clothes the semis have been hammered Maybe you're seeing some bottom fishing there But you've got the combination of things you got the leadership that you need and you've got some bottom fishing It's just the right kind of mix for you Really tonight and tomorrow is really important for the market There's two things that's happening in the next 24 hours for the market that are critical GDP number coming out tomorrow morning and two big tech names reporting tonight, which is Google and Amazon if one just one of those two big names reports well and Gaps up huge tonight and holds and rallies with a good GDP number tomorrow or both You could see a massive buying in the market tomorrow and a big rally that could almost a hundred percent trace The sell-off that we've seen for the last two weeks now I don't know if it's gonna play out that way, but I'm telling you're saying tomorrow one session could be And so almost the biggest session in the history of the stock market at least from a new miracle What's a good GDP number? At this point for the market anything that's not bad is good because we've had so much sell-off so anything close to four I don't want to say over for close to four would be good Mitch yeah, and I think on the GDP number you got to look to the consumer because consumers two-thirds or almost 70% of GDP and if the consumer strong in this print, I think that's gonna be the message that the market wants to hear Here's another thing that I'm seeing and by the way, I've seen this all week long I've been amazed every morning at the amount of upgrades Wall Street has been very aggressive telling people to buy weakness, which I don't see often today We just got an upgrade on the home builders the worst one of the worst hit second sectors out there They're doing it short nearly well. We just got an upgrade this morning a caterpillar We have three upgrades this morning. I'm bowing Wall Street is telling people telling people to put money to work I think that's good. In fact, I think it's a little unusual They usually wait till the top to tell people to buy. Yeah, I mean it we saw last week There were actually downgrades on the home builders So you're actually seeing different signals coming from Wall Street a lot since then Here's all investors need to do they need to focus on the companies that are Reinvesting in their business and you're seeing that time and time again, whether it's from Home Depot is doing it Right they're spending 1.2 billion dollars over supply Redo their supply chain. Listen Microsoft last night. They're Azure cloud computing was up 76% Because companies are reinvesting in their technology. That's the only way the market's gonna go higher here So if we have a short-term correction because margins are compressing because companies are reinvesting in their business So be it but longer term It's going to play out and you're seeing it play out with Microsoft Talk about the consumer for a moment because we you know you mentioned GDP I think this week one of the standouts have been retail. They were even the last segment to go down yesterday They've been holding up very very well. I think people are looking for an outright and outstanding us Holiday season Burlington Co factory up big today children's place has been up two or three sessions How critical is and do you think that the consumer will step up to the plate? Well, usually you do have retail rallying at the end of the year because Black Friday The holiday season is usually the bigger time when you see some of these stocks rally Although some of them rallied and made new highs like Target way earlier this year Which which they didn't have to do and you typically don't do but they did this year I think the market's gonna close strong in December I think one of the reasons we've had so much shelling is because we're coming into this election period And I think that people have been worried about really what's gonna happen in the upcoming week next week and a half I guess 10 days till the election. So you've seen that you see the worry about interest rates We've had selling but all the market needs is one reason for people to buy it back in and what the biggest risk Is that people will miss the next rally? What whenever that happens if they if they sell if they get out well Can I just bring up one of the most important things investors need to be conscientious of and the biggest buyers of stock have been removed from the market? And that's the companies themselves They've had a blackout period a month leading into their earnings So Microsoft now can buy as much stock as they want back now and then once Amazon does it So you're seeing the biggest companies can't buy their own stock and stock buybacks are healthy, right? They are tax-free dividends essentially Microsoft in their report last night said they spent 6.1 billion Returning money to shareholders either through buybacks and dividends to your point a trillion dollars possibly this year That means hundreds of billions still left in a pipeline once that goes off Mitch It will have a positive impact on the market. No question We still have money that's overseas that hasn't been repatriated and the taxes basically been paid on it So when that's money comes in it's gonna end up in the the capital markets either through buybacks or through dividends So I think we're gonna see that money come back Let's talk about Amazon for one second because that's the name everyone's looking at the Amazon alphabet Google But Amazon is the one that everyone is paying the most attention to it is the name that it's gonna sway everything What's the most important part here because their guidance is gonna be a little different the $15 minimum wage It's gonna be a multi-billion dollar hit to them next year and they do have some other higher cost Associated to How do you see this playing out? I mean I my instinctively a minute into my retirement account? I don't plan on selling it anytime soon, but do you think they'll overcome those hurdles? Yeah, they're gonna overcome those hurdles because one of the highest Profit centers for them is gonna be advertising going forward. They know your likes your clicks and and your habits So I think the most important thing is they've been expanding that over the last year and Wall Street's gonna be focused on that number They know the cloud is gonna do well their cloud grew 49% last quarter expect to beat this quarter on it given what Microsoft did last night That's why the stock is trading up today into the earnings over 5% I really think Google's a wonder watch and here's why Google has not looked at great compared to Amazon in the last few months Since July if Google is a surprise and actually has some buying coming into it tonight gapping up and running Then you really could see that whole sector no matter what Amazon does even if it even Amazon down but Google being the savior Amazon could gap down and then rally what I'm saying is Google has had so much Shelling if buying comes back into that stock one of the big stocks in that sector that has looked Really like crap since July even though it's in an uptrend It is has had so much shelling compared to Amazon Amazon's making new highs all the time It wouldn't be a surprise is what I'm saying if Amazon did it It would be a surprise if Google did you'd have all this buying come back into the stock and the key number is 1200 let's go back to Susan Lee for an update Susan Well, you know, I'm gonna cover Amazon earnings later on tonight after the bell and we're expecting it profit to gain Triple digits up a few hundred percent from last year revenues also expected to advance about thirty percent or so and I would say the key Number for Amazon. Yes, it's always about the cloud because it's probably the main revenue contributor and driver at this point But what about advertising that small line last quarter drove up a hundred and thirty percent That's a new business line that people are also closely watching as well And they're regular the regular business look really fantastic cloud gets all of the to your points is and cloud gets all of the hype And it should because it's growing really quickly and it was the reason they were profitable But the other parts of their business are really phenomenal and by the way many people think they're taking search away from Google right now Yeah, search advertising taking away from Facebook and Google and don't forget they're getting into pharmaceuticals They have an Amazon go bricks and mortar store that just opened up in San Francisco till long lines That's pretty much the base case everywhere that they opened their bricks and mortars Amazon go stores right now, so they're doing different things and when Amazon gets into your space. Yes, that is a new 800 pound gorilla It isn't a hundred pound gorilla, but I could tell you right now I've been shaken out of some of the names that initially went down and a few months later I kicked myself while there was in furniture I mean so you can compete companies can compete and we talked about retail But three even retailers that are learning omni channel They're learning how to use their brick and mortar locations for delivery spots and even now is distribution homes I think we're at the point where retail is finally figured it out We haven't added new stores on the real estate side their closing stores And they're figuring out how to coexist with e-commerce. What's interesting is we're talking about e-commerce being up And we're talking about brick and mortar as I like to call stick and brick real estate Based retail being up that's all about the consumer and that's the dividend from tax cuts this late in the in the counter Well, it's important to note that over 95% of retail sales are omni channel Meaning they're done with retailers that have a physical and a Digital presence the storefront is the gateway to the consumer You have to have a physical presence in order to increase your retail sales and that's going to be playing out Quarter after quarter after quarter for the retails That's why you're seeing Norsham do well as well as Walmart Don't forget if Trump comes out with a second tax cut thing before the election it comes out That's gonna boost sales going into the end of the year Keep the house real quick one more time folks, too We heard from the second most powerful man at the at the federal Federal Reserve And there were a few takeaways that I think this market is feeding off still room for unemployment rate to drop Wage group keeps picking up the tax cut tailwinds folks are still in the economy and business investment Productivity thanks to the tax that code changes continues a lot of good things. We've got great momentum right now


The Tiger Technician Hour with your host Basil Chapman call now toll free at 1-877-927-6648 internationally at<PHONE_NUMBER>. Now Basil Chapman, everyone Basil Chapman Tiger Technicians out don't forget this is the last day of the sale that special Tiger sale wow what a deal again 20 30 40% bonus so here we go the Dow check the front page of tier finance is your time to do it down's up 38 at 25,623 this is going to be an important session because it's going to tell me whether there's enough strength to form the lowercase h in the Chapman wave method dot oh let me just show you this right here uh yep there it is so what we're looking for in the core patterns of the Chapman wave look for the most obvious lowest load we try to count the number of peaks above the fourth highest peak alphabetize uppercase d that fourth highest peak is where other things can happen certainly you can go to e f and g most importantly these are the patterns we're looking for you got the straight line up and down you've got the cup and you've got the arch the arch in the cup right there or you can get a combination and this combination here of the lowercase h if it holds the left side no it can make yet another one and I call that lowercase h to a lowercase m so what we're looking at here in real life is this pattern right here where there's a large arch formation and then there's another little arch now this has got the the pattern that could look like a head and shoulders but I don't think that's the case right now more importantly 25,772 is the 14 the black line the thick black line the 14 period exponential moving areas it needs to be pierced then the next level of resistance is 25,957 this is go step by step we're really seeing a mixed market here where the semi is up 0.09 in the semiconductor smash of the 120 level goes down to the 90 97 is trading right now at 99 50 really very poor action and there are a number of areas that should be important what is moving right now let me just do this before I forget look at wheat wheat is up 14 and a quarter at 503 and three quarters that is a spec 418 to 509 what what a move and look at this even soybeans which is lagging is up nicely today up 24 and a half at age 54 and a quarter in leg b in the chaplain wave in the daily chart leg b no it's only a leg a in the weekly because you cannot count the bar that makes the high as an a unless it's the chaplain wave instant restart which it isn't so this is only a leg a in the weekly chart and look at corn corn is up what a move 343 round them below on the 13th and now it's two weeks later maybe a little more than two weeks later and you're at 416 and a half that's the reason why for subscribers we do have an agricultural fund and we're long been wrong for a little while and we had some losses initially when we took it as it was just plummeting now it's made it all back is looking very good what a move look at this weekly chart look at the monthly chart this is not even a leg a yet because you have to make a higher low bar before you can actually get a trough and only after the trough is made you start counting the legs to the upside yes the weekly chart is in the spectacular leg a but two weekly gaps i've never seen this um no i shouldn't say i've never seen i just don't recall ever seeing it whether it's a commodity or that it's a stock two gaps on on on them first have trading the next week i'm sure it's happened i just don't remember it but this is spectacular look at it it's just wiped out all the trading down trading since july when it was at 416 415 amazing corn okay let's get on with our nitty gritties um i just let me just do this for a moment because it's going to give you a good sense at least for what i'm looking at if that's what you're interested in i'm looking at the weekly chart saying that everything about it this is what i said to subscribers over the weekend remember i i sent charts out every day of the week um do a lot of work i certainly went through a ton of charts over the weekend but i didn't send out as many as usual because i needed it for my own i wanted to glean as much knowledge and information as i could look at this the weekly chart has everything about of the mag d cross negative sarcastic's gone from the 96 percent area to 48 percent everything about this says that i should be putting a down arrow for at least a cell signal in the weekly chart but i can't because you can't get a cell signal but it's only at a p c we can only get it from a d or higher fourth highest peak not the third so i'm watching this real closely why because on a weekly basis the technicals are suggesting that even if there isn't turn around to the upside it's going to have to either be spectacular or it's just going to be a bounce and then you're going to have to do some more retesting so a consolidation basically if it takes out 25222 anytime this week that's very negative that's very negative monthly charts we've got another week to go before we talk end of the week another four five days to go four days actually so let's just real wait before we talk about the monthly chart as it stands i don't see any chance of it going about 26695 unless it's just an unbelievably spectacular bunch of news and that could happen but i don't see the reason why i should so in the meantime back at the ranch what we are looking at is just let me say that the e-mini uh let's look at the s and p e-mini right now see this potential cup formation it's really a bowl formation it's having tremendous resistance this magnet of the 200 period exponential moving average in the two minute chart says that the level of let me click on it so i can see uh the level of 20 28 29 28 30 it's like a magnet it goes slightly above then it comes back and goes under it so that's both resistance and it'll be a support level if the s and p e-mini can break above 28 41 25 that was the high right there up says not the high that was the high earlier today that was early this morning i didn't finish notating that this is a b cd and let me just do that right now i was actually trading the the rustle future so let me just do this a b c one is actually c2 all right it's like a pd and now we've come back so 28 41 25 that's that's that's another 10 points up it can happen so i'm just going to say that it closed at between two o'clock and three o'clock above 28 42 which suggests that we have a very nice ready into maybe wednesday maybe even thursday morning if not you just back to the same old same old of ready failures now okay enough for that i want you to show you look high grade copper up strong thing i should go high grade copper to the daily and weekly monthly charts here we go high grade copper hg but high grade copper is trading right now it's down a little bit it's a 2.696 it's trying its first real decent opportunity now to trade up and it's still can't do it look the magnies finally crossing positive after the very weak sarcastic finally bouncing from the singer from the i think it was single digits actually uh that's 14 oops i can't get it right now there is okay i've got a sarcastic wise in fact down to 15 percent level so now it's a 23 it should be a much better rally it's really struggling that's a problem i'll be back thousand chap and tiger technicians are down to 31 s and p's at 5.31 it's not to better than the cow i'll be right back off these important messages at 877 97 6x4 the taz profile scanner is the most revolutionary piece of trading software that you will ever try wouldn't you like to approach the markets with confidence as you begin your trading day it's likely that you'll be faced with lots of decisions in order to make the best decision the first thing you'll need is a strategy that will help you minimize your risks whether we're in a bull or bear market a good strategy is to have the tools needed to help you scan and analyze the markets before you trade the taz profile scanner instantly scans and filters over 2,500 global financial markets such as stocks etfs commodity futures and forex headed by steve doll president of taz 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newsletter subscriptions we even have new pricing in six months and yearly options check out the new tfnn.com now and experience all the upgrades tfnn.com educating investors call now toll free at 1-877-927-6648 internationally at<PHONE_NUMBER> hi everyone we're looking at wood which is the ice shares global timber and forestry you can remember we're looking at copper which is very weak now wood which is global copper global wood which is the ice shares um i mean this is international timber and forestry terrible 83.88 june of 2018 trading at 56.20 right now 55.106 was the low back in december this is just not good action this makes me a little worried and if i put this together with my which is syntas which is syntas is the oh syntas is corporate uh corporation overalls uniform rentals holding very nicely towards the all-time high amazon that's the eight part of cash kind of near the all-time highs at 1844 since 2050.50 was the september all-time high but very weak lately making that h pattern the dreaded h pattern tested the 1817.25 low closed below it now it's trying to rally it has to climb over 1860 to get over the 14 period moving average 14 period in the daily and pd in the weekly since really taking a bit of a breather a spy which is the s and p all right yeah spy which is making the h pattern the same page pattern that we looked at in amazon a moment to go look at this there's your arch lowercase h now i'm putting it on this side to see if it's going to pull back further but right now unless the spy training at 283.15 up 37 cents s and p depository receipts it's the s and p 500 trading vehicle can close above 285.60 really nicely above the 14 period exponential moving areas a thick black line there that's a problem but the manky is close to wanting to turn up and the stochastic is making a double deformation this is the opportunity that it has if it can't do it that's a real problem because that peak c in the weekly chart like the dow has this one didn't close negative the s and p so the dow weekly chart mac d did close friday week underneath cross negative this hasn't so so that's spy and now we've got home depot home depot is up 30 cents of 1989 i it's holding quite nicely i showed it to my subscribers this morning over the weekend actually in the morning to say hey it's trying to turn up here but the manky is just about to try to cross positive it's still point 11 minus point 11 still negative but it's trying on balance volume is good manky stochastic is up the weekly chart hasn't deflected lower yet but because it got a full four days to go it better not otherwise it's a real problem but this is going to be important because i'll tell you right now unless home depot which had a height today of 196.47 can close above 197.65 that was the height of about five weeks ago um that's a problem if it can do that that's already bullish if it fails it starts to go under 192 the next two days well that's going to be real fairly that'll be a big negative um now we've got so that's my cash index but i'll look at my down core tax that is caterpillar caterpillar which is surely it's up no it's down again down 56 cents at 122 34 look at that monthly chart look at those h's 1h right there fails he has another h failure wow caterpillar 122.32 down 58 cents so that's caterpillar IBM surely it's up a little but no it's down 12 cents at 132.16 another look at the series of h's remember they keep failing and that's what IBM's doing about triple m which added a horrible horrible chart pattern down 52 cents again today look at that weekly the weekly goes from 220 down to 165 i mean wow that is huge and not only that but the monthly chart at an all-time high of 259.77 january of last year now trading at 165 100 points down that's not good and utx the night technologies also down 29 cents and 131.10 i don't know why the dalcon get any traction today um hey these are not good charts these are really lousy charts so okay we'll watch that closely now as we look at fang facebook facebook is up three at 184 it's right on the 200 period sorry it's right on the black 14 period exponential moving average magnies attempting to improve stochastic's okay 28 percent but not great and then weekly chart says the magnies goes stochastic's not but it's holding above the ninth period moving average the green line very nicely so at 184.16 it needs to push into the 189 to 190 area this week to say that it's got the the gumption it's got the strength to be able to go towards the all-time high um at least the last i have the 25th of 198.48 look at amazon we did amazon look at apple apple of course is getting lambasted from everywhere and it's up 23 cents at 179.20 233.47 was the october high plummets down to 142 spirals up to 215 pulls back to 178 this is not very good action and we've got goog googie google is looking a little bit it's up 17 and 1 1,151 but it doesn't look good on the chart it's got a lot of work to do to get to the 180 1187 is ready it needs to get to another 36 points and then i'd say hey google is in alphabet is really doing doing well because it's going in the alphabet to a leg b i don't know right now it's not looking all that great now the question i had earlier was would i look at the what i do in an assessment of the tlt because look at the big dichotomy liman i share 20 a treasury bond etf is up 85 cents and 128.62 took out the left side high now this is a chaplain wave it's it's an instant restart but it's what i call a flat base instant restart because it did go from a peak d and then it had a sharper pullback didn't take out the low that made the trough d at 125 20 it went down to 125 30 so that five cents made a difference because if it went under it i'd say the next plunge is going to take it below 125 right now all i can say is that 126 69 the left side look is key support now why do i say dichotomy because money is going into bonds rates are coming down look at the t and x t and x dot x has the tenure look at this trough a trough b trough c trough d instant restart trough a trough b trough c trough another d and a d in the weekly an absolute plunge so now what we're looking at is rates at record lows so why is money coming out of probably coming out of stocks and going into uh and going into uh the so-called safety of bonds i'm not sure except to say that that international look that we were doing with copper and and and would the i shares of timber and forestry has to say that there's a lot of nervousness over throughout the world so if i'm looking at this then the hgx which is the Philadelphia housing sector index should be screaming to the upside oh it's really strongly up it's at 304.32 it's up 0.1 it's up 29 cents something's something is really weird yet so so if housing money's not going into housing where's money going to Tina that's what somebody said the other i thought that was great brilliant uh Tina means uh i thought it was brilliant but now i can't remember what it means i'll tell you in a minute basal chapman tanker munitions hour um thousand thirty six this episode five i'll be right back since 1984 basal chapman has been using the Chapman wave methodology to advise traders of his expert market opinion while originally hand drawing charts from the late 1970s into the 1980s basal noticed that prices under most circumstances virtually always had a certain number of likes to the upside before declining sharply later basal found that computer software which included the standard market technical indicators enhanced the degree of accuracy and calling price turns as well as market trend calls thus was born the Chapman wave sequence using the Chapman wave methodology along with other indicators basal Chapman advises his subscribers of his expert market opinion each market day with his opening call newsletter right now you can get a two week free trial to the opening call basal's daily trading newsletter by visiting the front page of tfnn.com cancel it anytime during that trial and pay absolutely nothing get your two week free trial to basal's newsletter the opening call today by visiting tfnn.com the path of least resistance is david white's daily trading newsletter and if you're looking for active trading ideas then now is a perfect time for a 30 day free trial to this powerful daily trading advisory service david uses his years of trading experience to offer his subscribers his trading ideas each morning in his path of least resistance newsletter using a combination of equity trades along with options david keeps subscribers up to date with all pertinent market information with intraday afternoon updates when warranted don't miss out on this great chance to get a 30 day free trial to david's daily newsletter the path of least resistance with no obligation to pay anything david has been delivering solid recommendations for his subscribers recently and if you'd like to see the type of newsletter he delivers every 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checkout this sale ends memorial day may 27th so don't let it pass you by for all the details and to save 25 percent and get your free book shipped today check out the art of timing the trade charts on the front page of tfnn.com this segment is brought to you by think or swim for more information just click the think or swim banner on the front page of tfnn.com I've always been back so tlt trading at 128.7 tf.92 dina there is no alternative uh really i mean if you want to put money to work what do you do you have to put into something in the market that's anything that's really moving or if you want complete safety you put in bonds but that's a different thing altogether but maybe in short term duration whatever and let me see what junk is doing j and k which is the spider barclays high yield bond uh oh this used to be notation now it's not so why is it not notated i don't know okay just real quickly there we go there's your down point and you can start a buy signal close to a buy mode peak a in the weekly and i think that's a c let me just double check now it's the one before so let me check that out you got 107.97 107.97 parallel highs 108.69 108.69 parallel highs so one of these could in fact be a d but it doesn't matter i mean a phantom c i'm calling this a c because it matches everything else we're looking at but most importantly at 107.19 up 13 cents the high yield doesn't look too great looks very much like the wine fact if i looked at this you would have said it was a chart of one of the indices it doesn't look like the tlt look at the tlt here we go i mean look at that beautiful cup breakout pattern chaplain wave cup and ladle breakout it did look like a cup and handle for a moment i'll call it a cup and handle for now and it's trading really well and when it finally comes down it's just got less than two points to 126.69 to test in the chaplain wave flat base restart so um hey if if one there's a dichotomy right not only that we've got crude oil which has come down really sharply from the 66 66 60 area back in the 23rd of april trading down to the 57th trade right now at 59 15 up 53 cents and got deflected at a pc from the 200 period exponential weaving average not breaking down it just looks horrible because the daily chart extended so highly but if you look at the weekly chart it's still holding pretty well so that's also saying to me internationally there's been a pull some kind of a pullback in the shorter term the the hydric copper and the ice the ice shares of the timber industry that's a little different so uh let me just do this because i had a couple of questions about xli xli is the real industrials that's the s&p select industrial even then it's not purely industrial like the dow was initially but most importantly it's up 0.04 and the dow itself is up 0.14 percent 0.4 and 0.14 dow is up 35 0.80 0.97 and the s&p and the xli is up 0.03 yeah this is just not good it could went to the 200 period moving average let me show you keep your eye on the left side or keep your eye on the left side chart for now and i want to show you something look keep your eye on the left side chart and there's the dow so the dow is also saying it's in this sideways consolidation phase hasn't broken down breakdown would be under 25 000 that'd be a real breakdown i got a whole week to go and i'm not sure yet whether we're going to break 25 000 222 the low of the 14th of may so that's the dow but when you look at the qqq you can see that it's really struggling it's up 96 cents and 179 14 right now so that that's good action but look at that weekly chart the weekly chart is suggesting unless there's really a spectacular some kind of a trigger to say wow this is a great opportunity great buying opportunity i don't see that yet so the qqq together with xlk which is the s&p select tech spider fund has gone down to a trough d trying to rally but look at the weekly chart if i didn't see this as a peak b i would have said absolutely this is more like a g this is more like a some kind of a topping action than to say a consolidation so i'm just doing one thing at a time i'm saying to you look there's been a spectacular move from the december lows it got way overextended to the upside in many of the indices the xlk went to 79.70 it was at 57.57 after a 24 decline from its all-time high of 76 down to 57 now it goes from 57 20 points higher was about 37 38 percent and i'll just pull back a little bit so keep in mind what we're really looking at here is the extension that went beyond what it should have in most of the indices in april or may is now saying consolidation taking place i'm treating it as a consolidation and i don't see any reason why not to treat it as a consolidation but i can tell you this under 25 000 it's not a consolidation anymore it's starting to become much more serious okay next question i had is would i look at silver yep sure silver right now silver is down 0.24 and 14.31 oh look at this remember this channel that i drew in i did in a bunch of different indices sectors look at this that's the line in the sand is the red line and it's in an f but in fact i could make the case that it's an f slash d why because this rally here in failure peak a minus made a trough a trough b it's called a gray trough a and a gray trough b and then an e slash c and f slash d so look at this at the bottom end of a narrow channel line remember all these different techniques over the years i've developed these techniques we use them all the time for subscribers to an opening call and what's really important about this particular phase right now is that the the the daily chart is just making absolutely under the 14 period moving average it's making a series of lower lows and lower highs much lower highs and much lower lows and look here's the weekly it shows you the same thing and it hasn't taken out it hasn't come close to the 14 the 14.17 low of the week of the 16th of november i shouldn't say it hasn't come close it's getting close it's making an arch formation or inverted a formation after the pd weekly top so this for silver is a big deal and it is a big deal can it pull one of these things because look these guys were going down down down look at this look at this channel right here in wheat and when it broke out who look at that weekly chart how it broke out so that's very important and um what i am looking at here is that the i don't care whether it's because of the administration i don't care what it is i don't care what the reason is i don't care only i only care about the results and the fact is that this when there's been no real evidence of um the farmers being helped there's a hint that they will be but just a hint look what's happened 418 to today's high of 509 in just a few weeks this is from the may from the april no that's sorry the 513 that was the the low of the 13th of may that is incredible action so here we go i'll just put that inside don't forget so that's five that is that that is really something that's five one for 513 yeah okay so i had a question well we could brush your half away we okay i haven't looked at it for a while i hope i've updated it yep made a pdf top and just under two it's about 218 it makes the top back in the beginning of may trading right now 201 this is something to talk about this is buffett buffett is going to be too happy that's pulled back quite a bit but it's still up in the high range i'll be back we're talking about to the channel but we are paid down 73 cents at 200.97 thousand 40 sqs of the tfnn memorial day tiger dollar sale is here from now through memorial day you can get up to a 40 bonus on your tiger dollar purchase tiger dollars never expire and can be used for any tfnn good or service whether you're a current subscriber looking to add instant savings or you're a new listener or viewer that is considering signing up for any product in the near future now is a great time to get your tiger dollars and lock in dramatic savings on all tfnn products and services we only have a sale like this a couple times a year so don't let it pass you by tiger dollars are available in three purchase options with a 20 30 percent and even 40 bonus once you purchase your tiger dollars you'll be able to apply them to your tfnn account and then they are automatically used for all your recurring subscriptions going forward making it as easy as possible for all the details on this tiger dollar promotion running through memorial day visit the front page of tfnn.com and get your tiger dollars before this sale passes you by it's amazing to think that tom o brian started his weekly gold report 17 years ago with the first issue published April 7th 2002 when gold was trading at under 300 dollars per ounce gold peaked at more than 1900 dollars in 2011 and after spending many years consolidating at lower prices gold may be poised for its next big run tom o brian publishes his weekly gold report every monday morning for subscribers consisting of coverage of the xau hui gdx the dollar bonds south african rand as well as 25 different mining equities with specific buy sell recommendations as of april first of this year the gold report currently has eight active positions with an average unrealized profit of almost eight percent for each open trade new subscribers get a 30 day money back guarantee so you have nothing to risk for all the details and to start your gold report subscription today visit the front page of tfnn.com don't let gold's next big run pass you by sign up today are china a shares hot or not if you trade china a shares now may be time to take a closer look trade chau or chad directions daily csi 300 china a share bull and bear etfs china a shares in either direction visit direction investments dot com today an investor should consider the investment objectives risks charges and expenses of the direction shares carefully before investing the prospectus and summary prospectus contain this and other information about direction shares to obtain a prospectus or summary prospectus please contact direction shares at eight six six four seven six seven five two three the prospectus or summary prospectus should be read carefully before investing an investment in the funds is subject to risk including the possible loss of principal the funds are designed to be utilized only by sophisticated investors such as traders and active investors distributor four side fund services LLC don't forget you can listen to tfnn live on your mobile device 24 hours per day go to tfnn.com then hit watch tiger tv that's tfnn.com then hit watch tiger tv for the latest market information to berkshire hathaway brk.b that's the asia dot a no dot b is the b shares that we're looking at you this is bad that i called the eiffel tower straight up straight down looks like an uppercase a hasn't taken out the lows that were made back at 198.23 and 20 198.20 on the 25th of march made a peak f top in the chaplain wave back on the 3rd of may at 219.16 so it's come back very steadily in trough sea it's trying to rally but the magnate is still very weak stochastic is terrible at 12 12 percent it used to get to 22 percent or more to really get over the 205 quarter 204 14 and 200 period expansion moving averages weekly chart is suggesting that it made a cup failure pattern has to take a little more time to consolidate so it really used to get to 206 another six or seven points higher at that stage i'll be saying you know what you're making a cup formation you could write it a little further but i suspect it's going to be a failure mode until it makes a decisive low and i suspect that's going to be more in the 197 area 195 i'm not sure about that but that's kind of what my says at this particular point next question and is twitter uh can you look at twitter a dating weekly monthly upshot uh dating so i looked at this for the last two weeks or so it was recommended that i have a look at it it's acting it's been acting very well i agreed but you know i was looking at twitter way back and i figured if the president is using twitter the way he's using twitter at some point twitter should be recognized and it should be very good but it had its big run to 47 back in june of last year then it pulled back to the 26s and now it's trading it out after having hit the other day 41 just on on 41 trading 37 61 so my concern here is that it's really struggling and this is the way i would look at it put it on your list as a stock that has the potential in the monthly chart to get to the 47 200 period exponential moving average to possibly double top but at the same time this is what i'm looking at i think it's going to digest the recent gains especially the big gap that it had that was on the 22nd of april it's trading at 3382 i think it must have been good earnings or something gaps up lows 36 91 the next day and then by the 30th it runs to 40.92 and now it's just digesting the gains treated as a stock to put on your list i'm not sure i'd rush into it the best way to do it excuse me you said cup of tea the best way to do this is if you really do like the stock i do like the stock but haven't made a peak d in the week i think there's more time i wouldn't be surprised if it has to test the 36 to 35 area a little bit this is the way i would either i would buy an august go right out go far out an august call and i'd be closer to being in the money so that you lose a big percentage on the way down but nothing like if you were just crazy out the money at 42 and you're paying a dollar 80 and the thing goes down to 25 cents no i'm saying it's a 37 59 i buy something like a 35 if you can so you're paying already two and a half so it must be more than a dollar premium if you're going out to august so listen you're paying three and a half you're paying up 10 percent my suspicion is that at some point you really get a good chance to either get your money back but even a good chance to do a double by august so that's the what the longer term shorter term intermediate i'm thinking that it's really choppy and it's going to mess around here for a while i'm absolutely wrong if it if it closes about 3950 in the next week but if it starts to break the low that was made on the 13th of 36 37 i'd suggest hold off give yourself time put it on your list and this is the way i would do it if it pulls back under 36 i would have my first tranche my little bit i'd start there saying there's about a 10 percent risk but if it starts to move higher it could do it very quickly if it gets rid of all if it pulls some of the gap and then goes back into the 36 37 area that'll be good action so i'm just saying i would hold off i'm putting it on my list i've got on my list in fact for my subscribers just there to there's a watchdog we've missed the really nice move i did like it after that peak the end was holding 200 period moving average at 32 never did a thing about it that's a shame because now you would have had a cushion and you would have just said okay i can give up some of the gains can even take a little bit off and i've hold it that's not the case but not in it but i am saying keep it on your list i think it is again to be a i think it's the the monthly chart says it has the potential to push to the 50s but you're going to have a lot of patience so if you're looking at 13 to 14 15 point rally so that's about a 45 percent gain then you can have yourself a 10 percent or a 12 percent risk so if you like it now and you don't want to risk it suddenly gapping up and not knowing what to do or pushing above the high of the 22nd about 39 32 i'd say maybe just start a little nibble here you can add or subtract it anything you want but at least it gives you a sense i've got the arch formation i think it's going to be coming back and it's going to be doing a test of the 36s over the next couple of days we'll see but in the meantime that's my assessment i just risk reward i don't i don't want to be buying it yet 37 and see it suddenly break 35 50s support now i've got a two point loss and i and it's not my plan my plan here is that i would i would want to see a pullback how it holds between 36 and 35 isn't going to pull the entire gap we're going to break and go back to 3462 or lower we don't know but in this particular environment i'd say just be a little careful on the stock okay next thing we're looking at here is uh what was the question uh rockport music nope uh no here we go a question about bowing bowing is up nicely it's up four points today 359 and it's helping the i think that's part of the reason why the dow is up 30 something points instead 36 instead of being down 36 but this is just be careful of bowing there's a lot more bad news that's going to come out yes i know i like to say that you should be looking at the chart with a chart the weekly chart is saying not quite done yet not quite done doesn't have to break down doesn't have to go down to 320 although my suspicion is that 327 is going to be an area that it hits at some point but at this stage of 358 can it go down another 10 percent absolutely going to go up another 10 percent i think that's going to be harder there's some bad news and i think it's going to be bad news that's going to be country specific that some of the country is going to say you know what we with it now thinking we've got airbus we've got other things and we've got a huge backlog we can wait we'll come back in waiting 10 years or waiting 12 years doesn't make too much difference especially in this market so i think bowing has limited upside question i had about lmt lmt that's lucky martin right yeah lucky martin i haven't finished it d went to a peak e this has really been a very good uh rally it's in a leg d in the weekly and a peak d in the daily oh that is interesting all right i'll do a little more work we talk about when i get back basal chap and final segment coming up oh don't forget my web my uh talk tomorrow night at mit this is for the boston investors group i'll talk about it when we get back at seven o'clock in cambridge mass at mit real easy to get to good parking i'll talk about as soon as we return i'm certain you are or strive to be one of the best of the best at everything you do in life it's the most common trait that we tigers and tigers share if you're looking to become the best of the best when it comes to managing your money let me teach you to do what most wealth managers tell you can't be done which is how to time the markets i'm steve rhodes author of mastering probability and for the last 12 months timer digest has been tracking my newsletter signals which have earned me the ranking as their number one market timer in the nation for the s and p 500 for the last 12 six and three months timer digest also ranks me as the number one market timer for gold as well the fact is markets can be timed and i'll teach you the exact set of tools that i use that has transformed me into one of the best at what i do sign up for mastering probability today by clicking on the newsletter tab on the homepage of tfn.com shops where i take you step by step how to use an extraordinary set of tools as well as provide great market calls to sign up today if you haven't checked out the newsletters page of tfn.com what are you waiting for all of the tfn newsletters are informative up-to-date affordable and must have for every trader looking to gain a competitive informational edge in today's markets tfn newsletters cover every aspect of the markets to offer you the very latest in market news plus new subscribers get to test drive our newsletters risk free for 30 days from all aspects of the markets including stocks bonds metals commodities and tech there's a newsletter to fit your needs exclusively from tfn stay informed each day you trade and get the competitive edge that will help you stay ahead of the game visit our newsletters page by going to tfn.com and click the newsletters button near the top of the page tfn.com educating investors you know what's cool taking something that's good for you something specifically formulated to help with weight loss better sleep stress reduction and the need to detox nico our hunter and gatherer ancestors found all their nutritional requirements for health in their wild environment but today our food sources no longer contain the vitamins minerals and nutrients our bodies need to stay healthy and strong that's why we need primal edge daily nutrition it includes a special blend of ionic soil based vitamins minerals fatty and amino acids in an easy to use liquid form primal edge is powered by highly concentrated folic and humic acids natures prefer delivery system they've been called miracle molecules because like sunlight air and water life cannot exist without them that's right page they ensure we receive all the nutrition we need to be healthy and thrive we take it every morning primal edge formulated and approved by nico and page of living a primal lifestyle buy it today for just 89 dollars click on the primal edge banner on the front page of tfn.com hi folks this is steve rhodes stay tuned for another great hour of the trader's edge heard here at tfn.com hi everyone so um yes i'll be speaking at MIT tomorrow night this is an MIT event the room is at MIT it's the boston investors group meeting wednesday may the 29th 2019 seven o'clock MIT building e-51 room 335 70 memorial drive Cambridge mass it's it's actually parallel to memorial drive so you take a left and then you can park and you can just go to the you can google it boston investors group meet up and i'll be talking about socioeconomic political trends different charts different indices what looks good over the coming a few months what's working right now what is still taking a breather a long-term breather at least has been for six or seven months i want to start under the radar and the esoterics like skyscrapers etc and i'll be taking questions really looking forward to it i always have a fabulous time there really good questions a lot of people are fundamental analysts uh but there are many that are technical and i get these questions that i have to see on the spot i have to think it through in a in a way that perhaps i hadn't thought of it before so it's always quite exciting for me i love it okay next thing we're looking at you is a question about cgc cgc is canopy this is for vicki bradenton uh couldn't hold on the line right now at 45 59 if if you're used to this stock which is canopy growth medical marijuana trading 46 59 per dollar 17 take a little bit take a little bite right now at um 45 59 reason is the magnate is trying to turn up is testing the 14 period exponential moving average stochastic's okay 31 percent i don't like these arch formations in the weekly but this is at least going to give you for i'd say for an 80 cent stop just maybe less than two percent if this thing takes out in the next two days if it takes out the high of the 22nd 46 97 that'll start leg b that'll be very positive and we'll target the 48th the risk reward good opportunity don't forget folks this is the end of the tiger dollar day the front page of tfnn check it out for the same as 20 30 40 percent safe tune for steve rhodes statewide i'll be back with tom later on today and check out my opening call i hope that it's something you'll benefit to you then very nicely lately and i'll be back


Alright, hello everyone. Welcome to Debian for Shy People, which is going to be a buff led by Ashish LaRoya. Ashish has graciously offered to try to reduce the IO latency by having two mics in circulation, so he's going to run that mic and I'll run this one. So, yeah, welcome. Ashish? Hi, yeah. So, wow, so loud. Right, hi. I wanted to, I organized a buff with the same name last year and I want to sort of just set the tone for a minute or two about what I want us to achieve and then I want to really have an open discussion. So, to achieve that open discussion, like Dan said, I'll be walking this microphone around and handing it to people rather than standing up here because that doesn't seem like a buff to me. So, yeah, well I guess I began this Debian for Shy People topic about a year ago because I think that a lot of the issues that are addressed by diversity groups are actually just issues of social interaction and ensuring that's of high quality and ensuring that people who aren't sure of themselves or who under-appreciate their own skills that Debian can still get their contributions. And I gave an example of this in my last talk about how there's some people on the Debian Mentors list who, when they don't get a sponsor for a package, they try emailing the list again twice, three times and this is something that some people will do and other people won't. So I want to sort of, Debian deserves to get contributions from both of those people and I want to think about actions we can take, maybe structural changes we can make in processes or ways, things we can do on mailing lists that would be different or other kind of communication media so that we are open to people who under-evaluate their own skills. So to that end, there's this gobby document on the web which I'll be taking notes, I'll try to take notes on during the talk. It's on the directory debconf11, dc11-buff-shy-people. If you're running the mic, you might not be able to take notes. Yeah, that just struck me. Is anyone willing to take notes to that? Okay, great, thank you. So I guess I want to start by having us, I guess I want to start by having us name positive kinds of interactions we've had with people that have helped reassure ourselves. Does anyone have any actually nice experiences to share about interacting with Debian people if you're unsure of yourself? Surely someone has something nice to say. I can go first. As I've been working on Debexpo and I've been putting a lot of energy into it, it's been really great to get thank yous in person from people like Pabs and online from people like Christoph Haas who maintains mentors.debian.net. Does anything, at moments where you're unsure of yourself, has anything nice happened to you when you've been working on things in Debian? Is that a clear enough question? Do you want to try rephrasing it, Daniel? Well, I can just speak for myself in terms of some things where when the Debian maintainer process was put into place, I mentioned to a couple of people that it was something that I had considered when I heard that it was starting up and I got feedback from them. It was something that I had considered but that I wasn't sure I was ready to go ahead and do that and I got feedback from them that was very immediate saying, no, you're in exactly the position that this was intended to cover. There's no reason you shouldn't do it right now and we can just be done with it. So just asking some, the process was basically me asking someone or mentioning it as a possibility and then getting immediate feedback from them that it was a good thing. My presentation please, first? Well, I'm Victor. I'm not actively contributing to Debian but in fact I worked with Gunnar Wolf and was changed because I was working with Red Hat and one time he suggested me to use Debian and I said, well, teach me how to and the first thing that he told me, try and do and that and you need to learn again all over the things and it's really different than the other thing and was like, why? You are sitting with me here and we don't help me. And I think most of the list at one time was like this, like if you ask for something that was obvious for other peoples, you get go and read manual and install that and try this and read that and then maybe you don't need to ask this. It was a very good thing. In fact, I ended using Debian and I'm... No, I was a very good team at the end that Gunnar don't have to teach me how to install at that time Debian because I understand a lot of things in the process but in the moment it was annoying because I was sitting right here and he was here and hey, what now? Could you at least ask him for help when you were stuck or did he just say no, read the manual all the time? Well, he was busy, written something for other things and go and read these or search the web, that kind of things. Yeah. Useful pointers. Well then we can switch to negative experiences. I mean, I think what I want to do is talk for a while about those and get a sense of what the social, cultural, personality, irritating problems are in Debian then maybe we can spend some of the time at the end if we don't fill it all with negative experiences. We can spend some of the time at the end thinking about ways to actually improve those. So, has anyone had a moment where you've not been sure that the work you've been doing for Debian was good and you feel like the community disappointed you? Which part? Well, my experience has been in general very positive and there have been only a few cases of, like, I've been wondering if I've made somebody really upset or something but I think the general problem is that you need to know who to talk to and sometimes you send email and you get no reply and that's very unsure for a new user. So, I don't know how to fix it but that I think is a major issue. I can add another negative experience which is when I actually applied for DD I was initially deferred because I was asked can you give a list of everything you've done for Debian and if not then maybe you haven't contributed enough and I felt put off by that because I don't actually like to, I don't want to make a list that feels like I'm bragging and it just seemed kind of like, well, if that's what I have to do then I'm not going to do it and I was actually deferred for many years as a result in the DD process, in the MM process. I mean, I think one of the most discouraging things we do is on the Debian Mentors List having people wait a lot and like you said, I'm receiving no answers to your emails. Anyone else have any negative experiences they can share? When Debian, you weren't sure of yourself and then Debian failed to help bring you up? It's not a personal experience but sometimes you see ITP probably of new contributors so they are willing to help us provide a new software and someone just replies, oh, why are you crap, do you package this PHP application which is not really needed? So, this is probably not a good way to start either in Debian. Well, when I started making Depth Tags like, I don't know, 2003 or something, I was just alone and I was just building this thing and it took like five years before people kind of realized it wasn't such a bad idea and I count myself lucky I'm a slightly stubborn person when I think something works because if I had waited for somebody to say, well, yeah, that's a really cool idea. Depth, you know, Depth Tags. I'm just saying that it took something like, I don't know, five years or something for Depth Tags to get officially kind of recognized as something useful and Depth Tags? And luckily I'm a stubborn person or I would have given up. Anyone else have any negative experiences to report or negative things you've seen that you think are discouraging new contributors? I can relay a comment from ISC. Lucille's 2011 says that this ask.debian.net was a huge success and maybe something in that regard could be made for contributors as well, not only users. Not to derail entirely, but so you'll know what ask.debian.net is. Have you all? So ask.debian.net is a question and answer forum that I guess, well, it's modeled after the website Stack Overflow indirectly. If you've seen Stack Overflow, it should look similar. In terms of, I guess I could probably tell this to the ISC person on IRC, but the ask.debian.net site, could we just pile on to it and tell new contributors to ask questions there also? Is anyone here of the DDS and contributors, mentors, whoever, do they use it? Like, do you have, are you listening to the text? Well, I would subscribe to some of the RSS feed if maybe. If maybe. How long's it been going? I think about a year. Does anyone know better than that? Maybe eight months? Well, so maybe we can, maybe to respond directly to what you said about the NM process. Do you think that it would be an improvement? Is there something that NM could have asked you that would have generated the same response that they needed that would have encouraged you to actually apply at that point? I'm not, I mean, I think that the NM process has actually changed dramatically since I was initially deferred. So I think that most of that has been fixed in that, I don't know if there was, there were discussions earlier today about things like DD portfolio and mind change logs and where it actually is easier for an application maintainer to retrieve that information without requiring every NM, every applicant to go through and list up all of their contributions, which I think would be good. So I think that part might be solved by now. Thank you to the folks who have worked on solving it. I think that was one of them. And one remark about the terrible threat of Naveen DeVal, I think it was about the PHP Web App that was apparently reasonably high quality, but a few people didn't know that, so they pretended it wasn't... So there were two problems with that thread, as I recall.  But the other problem is that then they implied that through that communication they implied that that person's work wasn't valuable. And so I wonder if... One thing that I've read is that if you're in a public conversation forum and one person says something that's offensive or hurtful to somebody else, it's really valuable for a third person to step up and say to person A that that was a hurtful thing to say. Do people feel that way here? Would it have improved the thread if we asked people to reply maybe privately to the version of the poster or maybe to all of Naveen DeVal saying your tone is unacceptable? Yes, clearly yes. I mean, it's something that is going on for a few years now and I think we're seeing the result. I mean, Naveen DeVal is much more... I don't know, it's less aggressive than it used to be, at least in my opinion. And I guess it's because there are several people, me included, who reply from time to time to say, well, that's not a reasonable thing to say and please sing twice before writing. You always have people who won't listen but if you get three or four similar answers maybe you sing twice really. One thing I want to emphasize is that even if you just join Naveen DeVal and watch for lousy threads where people are mean to each other and you reply saying you're being mean, stop it, or something more concrete, like you should make sure you've reviewed the package before you try to provide feedback like this and secondarily, the tone you're using is hostile to new contributors. If people want to join Naveen DeVal and assign themselves the task of doing that and sort of being the nice person police that would probably be extremely valuable, I think, to the project. Even if you don't feel like contributing to the technical side of that. There's this talk from... I don't remember the names, I think Fitzgerald, something, and Sussman. It's called Poisonous People in Open Source and it's a very catchy name for basically being nice to other people. So, yeah, that's one of those things. When you have this nice community and everybody's nice to each other and then there's someone screaming and being mean, it really sticks out like a sore thumb. So, yeah, when you can tone it down thoroughly by reminding people to be nice to each other, with time it just fixes itself because it really sticks out. Well, I think that part of the point of the talk is that if you don't cut off those poisonous people, then they take over the project or they ruin the property or else. So, yeah, you can address it that way. I just wanted to comment on that. One of my concerns about this kind of labeling is that it labels a person as sort of irredeemably poisonous and some of the best messages that I've actually read in a nasty discussion are apologies from people who have realized that they've crossed a line. Maybe they make an excuse, maybe they don't make an excuse and they just apologize, but I think that itself can set a tone and a bar, an expectation. And maybe folks here have crossed over a line or said something they didn't mean to say and an apology can set a tone far better than a, you know, you shouldn't do that email because it's somebody saying, oh, right, there are community standards here to respect. So, perhaps the reason nobody's talking is because of the selection bias of the people attending. At least on behalf of part of the people that are not typing, maybe it's also because we want to, I want to understand the other side and the thing is, when I started being a DD, I tried to be close to people who tried to approach, but then I don't have time, I have other things and I have not been very supportive of newcomers.  You said you want to know what the mood is. Yeah. I mean, one thing that I thought about doing is running an event for projects to sign up where running an event for individuals to sign up to maybe for a week hang out on an open source project mailing list and every time they see something that they think will turn off, oh, something turned off indeed. Anyway, anytime the, so you make a sort of team of roving nice people where your job as a nice person for a week is to go to a project chosen by you, hang out on their mailing list for a week and every time you see something that you think is hostile or will turn people off or that people who are unsure of themselves will make them extra unsure of themselves, you reply.  Is this the kind of thing that people will be interested in rotating positions inside Debian for? Would anybody sign up for that? Just a question slightly deviled advocate here. How do you filter out energy sinks? How do you do what? How do you filter out energy sinks? Tell me more about the kind of energy sink you mean. Like, I mean, sometimes you have people who are positively shy, sometimes you have people who feign shyness because they are attention seeking and those can be severe energy sinks because the more you try and help, the more they ask for help. And so I've tried to be nice generally through my Debian career and you reach a point where you become a target for energy sinks and you sort of need to find ways to say no, but if you start being helpful at the beginning, it becomes harder to say no. That is at the moment one of the biggest conundrums I find in trying to be nice and helpful sort of thing. I kind of hit that wall and I'm puzzled. I mean, I can provide part of an answer, but I hope other people can provide other parts of an answer. I would say that one reason I'm theoretically structuring this roaming nice person task to be limited in time is that at least then you know that people who are going to be energy sinks can only suck your energy for a week. And similarly, really hypothetically, we can have forced vacations for DDs during which time, like one or two months a year, you can't do any uploading. You're not responsible for anything. You don't have to reply to any emails on Debian Develop. And you make sure that before the vacation somebody else knows enough about your packages that things are not going to break. The other thing is that if you set one difficult thing, well, if you can set a policy for what kinds of emails you are and aren't going to answer or at least what kinds of answers you're going to send and you make that policy really clear, that can help. Like Pab Salt wrote on the Debian Mentors thread that I was reading to refresh my talk before about how he doesn't, at least at that point, upload... He doesn't sponsor packages. He only reviews them. Because he doesn't want to create the burden for Debian or maybe Leaf packages that stick around. If you could possibly find that some rule you can set for yourself similarly. But is there? Is that useful? What do you think? It's fine in a context of the thing you'd like to set up.  I can't tell people, I'll be nice to you for a week. And then I'll tell you to sort of... Or I can't be nice to somebody for a week and then stop replying their private email if they contact me in private because I have been nice to them. And so they will contact me in private and say, well, you've been nice to me. Well, yeah, it will stay a conundrum for me, I guess, for a while. I try to make it a definite policy not to answer private emails to me, which are related to a certain topic, like, I don't know, HDPD or traffic service or something. And so when someone mails to me in private, I just reply, please take this on the list. So that sort of stuff that... Because I don't know everything and I'm not there always, so that kind of explanation helps you get out of that corner, I think. I would like to reply to Enrico because I've seen this problem many times in IRC channels.  Because I personally feel that if a person is trying and he's asking you questions, you have some instinct which tells you that he actually tried to do something. So don't you think that? Should I take the mic to say I didn't understand what you say? I feel really bad doing that. I'm saying that you talked about being overnight for a long period of time and that it gets boring.  Yes, I can realize that, that's fine. But once you realize that, once you realize that your efforts instead of having been efforts to help somebody, you've been feeding the energy beast, it's much more difficult to disengage from the energy beast because they can go to other people and say, look, that person helped me and now they hate me. And then you need to handle all the other people that say, what did that person do to make you hate that person and so on and so forth. And you create the monster while trying to be nice. Another thing which helps in this case is to have a support back channel. So we have an HDPD channel and then we have Apogee support where the main crew doing IRC support hangs out and which is very healthy because then you don't let the anger out in the main channel on people you're trying to help. So you have a channel where you can scream and communicate in each other and say, okay, that's a troll, I kicked him or whatever. I don't know, I've never kicked anybody. I've hopped for a couple of years now and I've never kicked anyone. I managed to come by quite fine. But yeah, have a back channel. Absolutely. It should be mandatory in Debian to have a ranting cabal to vent out frustration instead of Debian lists like with a small number of friends and even better to have a hugging cabal because when you have a channel where everybody runs, you kind of just feed each other's frustration whereas if you have a channel when you say, oh dear, I had such a difficult day, look at that, it's awful. And somebody replies like hugs. That kind of improves your life a little bit. And yeah, thoroughly suggested, small cabals of huggers are the way to go. I think there's a Debian hugs IRC channel. Wait, is there really? If not, it should be. Can someone just join IRC and see if Debian hugs is... Anyway. Debian hugs, that was the psychiatrist's channel. Oh, okay. Great, let's keep that going. That's a good idea. Well, I know about Debian Say Hi, which is a different story. Some of you might not know that the Debian QA group is half a go or so. Well, team, whatever, efforts, not a group, it's everyone. It's really confusing to say anything about Debian QA X. Anyway, the Debian QA effort has a Debian hyphen QA IRC channel and people used to join it and try to say hello to each other and also do QA work sometimes. And some part of the IRC channel said, stop wasting our scroll back saying hello, hello, hold this, hello, hello. So, the people who liked saying hello made the Debian say hi, IRC channel. And there, they say hello and also they do QA work. So, I'm a big fan. It should be made like the Debian private hugs email list where everything you email here must always stay private and also you're expected probably to reply saying hug. I already got three hugs. Just now. Okay, so maybe Debian hugs is the answer to all of our culture problems.  I'm going to go join the IRC channel. But that wasn't really like, even if it sounds silly, it's a really good idea. Are there other like culture changes that could improve the situation? One thing we've talked about in the past is, one thing that lots of projects have talked about on and off is altering the way mailing lists work so that you can slow down flame wars. I don't know. There's a whole topic. I'm not going to say anything. Go ahead. So, one thing I've noticed about my participation in DebConf is I tend to hang around the same people and talk to the same people and stuff like that. So, next year I think I plan to not talk to anyone that I've already met before and say hi to new people. I encourage anyone else who wants to do that to do so. Last year, DebConf was not on video. Was better? Was better the participation you were in? What's the question? I don't understand. The last year was above with the same name but was not in video. Was in the... Well, was not taped. Right. It was not taped just because the video team didn't have access to that room. I remember that when... I also don't attend that. But I remember loud and a lot of people, the making noise. And here it's very clearly. And I think maybe the cameras and this thing is not helping. Well, I think we also didn't have the microphones to worry about. Yeah, I guess in a way the cameras are hurting because you have to move the microphone around. Last year I also presented more wacky ideas which I could dig up that list of wacky ideas again. But I... Well, what? Okay. I definitely have the feeling that cameras and microphones don't help shy people speak up. So really would suggest not doing that. Good idea.  And then have a group chat. That'd be fine with me. Okay.  I was missing something like an introduction round. But how you do that with 300 people. I was wondering if we could set up some kind of, I don't know, speed dating like mechanism. So I mean you make two lines and you have one minute per person to actually, you know, just say, hey, I'm Luna and I'm doing this and this and this and Dibyan and the other person that can do that. And you say, oh great, I've used this package. Wow, it's so cool that you're getting into Dibyan. And so you can figure it out later for the conference because there's a lot of faces that I've... Well, I have to look, you know, for the name tag and say, hmm... This person looks scary. I'm not going to... That line of people introducing themselves to each other is called the key signing. So at this year's Key Signing Party we didn't do a monstrously long line. We actually divided into 10 groups of 10 to 12 people each and people were expected within their group to introduce each other, talk about who they were. And it's not more than, you know, one or two minutes per person but it was intended to be more of a social opportunity than just, here's my ID, here's my fingerprint, you know, sign my key. Did they do that? Some people did. Enrico didn't understand. That could have been because everyone was talking when I was trying to explain what I was hoping would happen. So we could turn off the cameras and continue these conversations. So I believe it's about self-confidence and actually many people who are trying to work on them doesn't know their own skills. So when they speak with some DD they don't exactly know what they actually know. So they see them as some weirdos and think that they cannot help at anything. So that's why probably they are a little bit shy. So should we actually turn off the cameras? Is there a consensus on that? Does anyone want to think we should keep the camera on? Maybe it's a different question. Okay. Maybe I should have thought about what I was going to say in a second a little longer but I didn't have time, he was so fast.  Maybe I have the feeling that we are trying very hard to switch or consider what we could be doing to accommodate better shy people or people who don't like asking questions or all kinds of different people. And I wonder whether there is something that we can do in a different level. That is not how the project can change to accommodate these people but what we can do is a project to help these people. I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't want to say shyness is wrong in any way. I'm sure that shy people probably would like to overcome or be able to overcome selectively their shyness in certain environments where they feel comfortable. So maybe we can find ways in which we can help them to overcome this shyness. Of course on the one hand, by making the environment such that they feel comfortable but maybe on the other hand by passing on some sort of skills, some ideas or maybe creating a motivation for them to just try it.  Something to get people to just dip their feet into the water and find out that they don't get their head bitten off. I've got an idea. That is a terrible idea. I know, but it worked. You said something. Yes, but was it helpful? I don't know. You're okay now and on air. Oh great, obviously not. Okay, who's next? Who wants to go on air? A really simple question. You want to dedicate an hour a week for that. Well, you should consider time zones of course. And what's wrong with asking those questions on the main channel? You expect to get the resources for answering that from people on the main channel. One thing to consider is to create a dedicated channel for that but of course then no one will be on the dedicated channel. So why, Debian Mentors was originally created to distract people from Debian development. So how would you expect to get new questions answered on the channel? That's a very good question I think and it shows that I really didn't have enough time to prepare what I was going to say.   How many times have you heard that?   The result is that people don't, it becomes so inflated, so mainstream that people don't consider that anymore and if we had the one hour on the Saturday afternoon considering time zones and everything, it gets a little bit more complicated than this but I'm just running some abstract ideas. If we make an event out of this, like Debbie and Balloon Party where you can't do anything wrong and the stupider you get, the better it is. If we had something like this we actually made it a specific event that started and ended in very constrained periods of time. Maybe that would be an additional reminder for people. Maybe that would be an additional motivation. History has a name for it and it's called Carnival. Pretty much any society has a Carnival situation in which rules are broken. We tend to have the 1st of April or Debbie and Curiosa for it but it's not just quite what you're talking about. It's just a data point along those lines.  Now I'm going to ask.  That idea may be a good idea with a better wording. It's an idea so elaborate on it.  No, obviously we don't want to create this sort of environment. What I would like to create is an environment, an explicit, even more explicit environment than saying it over and over again. That this is the time when you can't do any mistake. When you will not be judged for something that you might do and later regret. This is the time that we dedicate for you to gain experience without having to fear that there will be negative consequences because everybody involved in the experiment gives you this credit and knows that this is for the specific purpose to help people find out that no matter the fact I will not get killed or laughed at because everybody here has made mistakes and survived.  Are the people who, are those people who will ask the questions the shy people or those who will not read the manual? How many of those? I want to trade. Let me put that on cue. Let me trade microphones. I just want to respond to a couple of things that have been said. I sort of misnamed this bof. I guess I think that it's not so much about shy people so much as for all of us in our moment of insecurity it's not about the person or a label. The other is that there's what you're talking about with these events that you run periodically where you say you can ask stupid questions now. I've been running a couple of things like that on IRC for other projects. We call them build it events and it's just where if you want to become a new contributor but you don't know how then if you're having trouble even just getting your build environment working show up to IRC at this particular time and then Debian Women ran similar one of those for Debian and there were like 25 people or so who showed up. I just wanted to quickly respond to that and it popped up in my head at LCA which is another conference very good conference. They have a I think it's like newbie orientation walk or something like that and that's before the actual conference starts it is like one hour or something like that especially for the people who have never been there to meet and find out from the regulars what happens at this conference and maybe something like this you know maybe an orientation hour weekly where you can ask anything something like that. LCA has more than just the newbie orientation session which is in the afternoon of the day before LCA. LCA also has a a program specifically for partners of attendees and it has a document that's maintained explaining about LCA to people who've never been there before as well. So it's trying quite hard to be friendly to people around the community. I think we're about out of time. Okay well thanks I hope you all keep talking about like cultural personal issues outside of this room and maybe without a camera. Cheers.