What's up, trade hackers? Welcome to today's day trading update, Thursday, September 17th. Glorious day in the markets today. Booked a profit of $2,517. So awesome morning, it's 11.54 AM, so not even noon yet and I am done. Facebook, 12.65 MU, took a loss of 4.70. Winner in Netflix of 15.80.  So let's break down what happened. So for those of you who were in the live room, you know, let's start with Target. We kind of left the day and said, okay, the markets are actually pretty strong in the morning relative, meaning they were down overall for the day, but the price action was really strong.  And so I did jump in, I had some shorts on, but I jumped in right before the end of the live stream and I put on a long runner in Target because it pushed up, was looking strong. And so I said, okay, if we're gonna go higher, I wanna get long either Target or Walmart because they were two of the strongest stocks on the day. So I chose Target, chopped around for a while and then when it pushed down here, I bailed. That's when the market started to fall apart. And so took a little loss on that one. On Tesla, so this was, I think Tesla was my first trade of the day. No, no, it was, it was, it was MU. MU was my first trade of the day. Let's go to MU first. So MU had a nice little mighty 90 set up big push and then had the volume, but then it just kind of chopped around. And when it got up here and started chopping around, this is when I bailed. And so I went ahead and just took a loss. On MU, the other one that I started out with as a mighty 90 was Tesla. So we had a big push higher and I was, I definitely had a bias going into the day. So I was looking for short opportunities. Had a big push up in Tesla and then it just kind of started chopping around and then it pushed higher and then it just started chopping around again. And when it kind of pushed higher again in the broad market and all the stocks were really starting to get strong. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna bail. It's just that, you know, the price action is just too strong. I can always get back in. And in fact, that's exactly what I did. And so, so I took a loss on that piece, but then I got back in, actually it was down here. So I just took it off. We chopped around for a little bit, looking for a little bit of a continuation runner to the downside. And so I caught this little piece here. So you can see kind of the two broken down. So two little losses here and then a little winner there.  And then, and so those are my losers. Let's talk about the winners starting with Roku. So similar thing in Roku. I, you know, it was below the low of the day. It could not break through and get to any new highs. So I was looking at, I was hawking it for a downside runner. When we came down here, started consolidating is when I started putting a little bit on. And then again, it got kind of strong. And so I got shook out as it was kind of pushing up here. I thought it was potentially going to go higher. I mean, if you look at the NASDAQ at this point and the rest of the indices, I mean, they were just pushing, pushing, pushing higher. And so again, same thing. I was like, you know what? I still think we're going to get this sell off, but I'm going to, I'm going to get back in after it, after it's get a little bit more confirmation. So when it pushed down here, started chopping around, I got short and rode this thing all the way down. Actually, I got out of some here, added back in and then rode it down again. So nice $490 winner in Roku. Netflix was my biggest winner at 1580. I was talking about this all morning in the, in the live room as well. It was just weak. I mean, you know, some of these other stocks when the NASDAQ was pushing higher, you know, some of these other stocks were pushing higher, not Netflix. It was just chopping around, could not, could not break any new highs at all. So when it, I think I got on this right after, not too long after the live stream. So probably right around here, 10, 15 area where it started chopping around here and the market started to get weak and I rode this thing all the way down to this pivot level. So really nice trade there. And then same thing in Facebook. You know, this was just staying weak all morning, all morning, all morning. And I actually entered this in the live stream room before we exited. So I got, I started getting in right here and then I added a little bit more right here. And then I just rode, I took my last piece off right down here, pretty close to where we're at right now. So I am out of everything, booked again, 2,517 on the day. Good stuff. You know, it's nice when your idea plays out. But again, we always, we always talk about this in the live stream room is, you know, coming in with a bias, coming in with a trade idea is great, but you also have to let price action lead. And when price action started getting too strong, I had to reduce risk. I had to cut some losses. But again, you can always get back in and that's exactly what we did and it paid off nicely. I would say maybe the one, if I'm looking at one thing that I, in hindsight that I could have done better is, I talked about following price action. Well, there was several opportunities to get long in during this rally. There was several opportunities. The price action was pushing and pausing, pushing and pausing, just giving us really, really good indications of higher prices in the short term. And I just, I was a little bit stubborn with my bias because I just, you know, the market was weak and I just felt like I was very confident we were gonna have this sell off, but I did get chopped up a little bit in the upside, but it still paid off for me on the downside run. So good day overall. Hope everybody else had a great day. Feel free to post your profits in the Facebook group as well. Love hearing how you guys are doing. Have a great day and we will catch you tomorrow.


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The Columbia Broadcasting System presents Norman Corwin's One World Flight. You are listening to the Call of the Bird, known as Laughing Jackass or Cucabura, one of the many sounds and voices recorded inside Australia. To be heard tonight on this 11th of a series of 13 broadcasts based upon Norman Corwin's recent global tour as first winner of the Wendell Wilkie One World Flight Award. This is Norman Corwin. Last September I had the experience of flying from the first day of autumn into the second day of spring. To a four-engined American troop carrier shuttling between the Philippine Islands and Australia this is a routine run, a pushover taking only a day and a night to reverse the seasons. I was especially curious about the country we were heading for because most of Australia is as little known to America as the Call of the Cucabura. All I knew sitting on these bucket seats were the easy facts that it's the biggest island on the globe almost the same size as the United States with a population equal to New York City that one-third of the country is desert as hopeless as the Sahara that the climate ranges all the way from what you'd get in the Congo to what you'd find in Ireland. I had also heard of the toughness and bravery of its fighters and the beauty of its women both of which were cheerfully admitted by Australians aboard the plane. As for politics, I had an idea from Australia's record in the United Nations that its people were solidly in line with Britain and America on world issues and had no division of opinion about such things as peace, unity, the atom bomb, Russia, the United Kingdom and themselves. In any case, the troop carrier was steadily narrowing the distance between my questions and the answers to them. 4,000 miles we flew in two great hops and one little one and we landed in Sydney, the first clean, spacious, tranquil big city we had seen in the last 15,000 miles of journey. Sydney reminded me mostly of San Francisco except that it's twice as big, its setting is less rugged, its harbor is more complex and it has more sunshine. The old parts of the town have a European feeling and some of the public buildings, especially Sydney University, could have been brought over from England. But its downtown area, the business district, has a modern and American look. There are wonderful parks and recreation grounds and not far from the heart of the city are great sandy beaches and headlands of sandstone cliffs facing the sea. Australia, I soon found out, is a young country whose frontier days are not yet over. Her people have the toughness and vitality that go along with youth and although they're friendly and hospitable, they're also independent and outspoken and proud. We hadn't been in Sydney more than a day when we ran into an expression of this quality. A wharf worker on the waterfront spoke sardonically of the fact that some people look down their noses at Longshoreman and in the same speech he proudly referred to his property holdings took a poke at Australia's Prime Minister, Mr. Chifley and had a word to say about the income tax laws which he felt favored the rich. Oh, we're terrible people. Well, few people know that I'm a wharf worker. I've only got three houses. That's all I've got. But I've got them by hard work. And I've got to pay Mr. Chifley income tax which the big man gets for nothing and I've got to get a bit of sweat on my brow. Look at the sweat running off me now. There was nothing shy or backward about these dark hands. They happily sounded off on a variety of subjects. One man named Bob Robertson introduced himself as the leading Bible lecturer of the domain. He said that what was needed in Australia and the world was practical Christianity, which he then went on to define. There is a difference between Christ's Christianity and the exploiter's Christianity and that has, to a great extent, been one of the sources of the discontent that has prevailed among the peoples of the world. Is that clear to you? That is very clear to me. Tell me, are you one of the workers here? Yes, I'm a member of the aristocracy of the working class. That's the waterside workers federation. And now we're looked upon as the aristocracy as we give leads in matters of progress that affect the workers. Not far from this dock was the district familiar to so many American boys who were stationed in Sydney during the war, the district of Woolamaloo, which I thought reminiscent of San Francisco's Embarcadero. Woolamaloo was typical of the rolling and musical native names sprinkled throughout the Commonwealth, names like Kutumba, Wallongong, Maracuca, Mura Mura, Marklebu, Eromango. The authors of these names, native Aborigines, about whom you'll hear more later, were always present in the language, but never in person. They were hundreds, in some cases, thousands of miles away. The racial stock of these workers on the waterfront, as of most people in civilized Australia, was white and almost entirely British descended. Yet I found some of them not as firmly attached to the British Commonwealth as I expected. One of these laborers startled me by saying, In Australia and America, two countries that I should, in my opinion, a lot of people's opinion here in Australia should be united together as one great country. You mean that you would like to see Australia break away from the British Commonwealth and join the Federation of the United States? I do. This was such a surprise to me that I asked three other men what status they preferred. The tie with Britain or Federation with America? Well, between America and Britain, I cannot mention that because I'll get me head chopped off. I'm an independent. Me? I'd like to see England, America and Australia all combined together. Actually, the man who said he was afraid of getting his head chopped off was in the vast minority among the Australians we met. On every side of the political fence, there was forthright speaking of mind. For example, a woman on one of Sydney's streets trolled off the whole big four in the course of recommending what to do about the world's problems. I think that there are too many petty disagreements between the large powers. I think they should become more open-minded towards the smaller powers, and they should at least try to agree like grandmothers and little children. Almost everybody we met was ready to talk fluently about the world situation. For example, fighting between Dutch and Indonesians had been going on in Java, and the waterside unions of Australia had come out in support of Indonesian independence. Longshoremen refused to load supplies for the Dutch, and when I asked one of them about it, he explained with remarkable glibness. I believe the majority of the Australian people support the view taken by the unions that the Indonesians have complete right to their independence is declared in the Atlantic Charter. The Australian people at the time of the Charter declared their adherence to it, and having declared their adherence to that principle, obviously, are in support of the Indonesians' claim, and there's been no public clamour that the waterside workers or any other union should assist the Dutch. But this nation is no mere debating site.  Seven out of every ten men between the ages of 18 and 35 had served in the armed forces. They had come from the tropical north country, from the dry, flap-western plateaus, from Perth, which is as distant to Sydney as Los Angeles to New York, from the island of Tasmania off the southern coast, with its country and climate resembling New Hampshire, from the dusty, sheep-strewn plains of central Australia. The casualties among these men were proportionately twice as high as our own, and the veterans who returned had definite ideas, ideas which good or bad they expressed with remarkable facility. Lee Bland took the wire recorder to a busy street corner in Sydney one day and intercepted people at random. The first man he stopped was a sergeant, Sergeant Wood of the Australian Army, Hormon Terminal Leave after four years and considerable action in the service. Lee asked him whether he felt his four years had been well invested. He said no. He said he was afraid fascism was going to rise again. Yes, I think that it is quite possible that fascism will rear its head again, not perhaps in the same nations, but in some other country, very easily so in South American republics, and in fact any country, it could quite possibly be the United States, it could quite possibly be Britain, it could be China. It is a worry to you that the fascism may come again. Yes, it is not exactly worry. I accept it as a fact that it will come again and it will be the cause now out of a war. What would you suggest that the world do about it? Well, I can't really speak for the war but I can speak for the people of this country that they should perhaps take a greater interest in the affairs of their nation, understand how exactly it is governed and not to accept so much of what is told to them by the papers, especially to the youth of the country I think that that applies. Sergeant Wood could be classed among those of liberal and anti-fascist opinion of whom we found a great many in Australia, but there were others whose views could be classed as reactionary, shading to fascist. Such a one was the next man, Blaine Stopped, an accountant. He had served in the Air Force and the Pacific Islands and had come back with two suggestions for solving the world's problems. The universal language and monetary system, the second was a racial theory. The potential danger to world peace lies in the colored races. I can see in the, in embryo, more or less, I can see in the very backward primitive peoples of the islands and the andoacea, the preservation that I visited are potential Japanese. I consider that he, given the same opportunities to Japanese, as many people would today, they talk about raising his standard of living, educating him, and more or less raising him to our standard, which is a highly industrial and mechanical standard. I think that he, that he will possibly become a Frankenstein monster and turn on us and the virus as the Japanese. There was also an anti-Semite who spoke of what he called the Jewish occupation of Germany. Well, I was in Haerberg in 1923 and the conditions brought about by the Jews in Germany, they speak into Germany when the war was on, when the last war was on, and the conditions brought about by the Jewish occupation in Germany were frightful. I asked him whether he felt Hitler's policy against the Jews had been justifiable, and his stammering answer showed the basis for his observations in Germany. He personally was prejudiced. Well, I think that he had a lot to, he had an extra grind. I think that Hitler had an extra grind. That's my personal opinion. I personally do not like Jews. I made further inquiries about racial and religious prejudice during our stay in the country, and I was convinced that it's completely foreign to the vast majority of Australians. In fact, I found a degree of tolerance for political views, which was unusual among the countries of the world we had seen. The main course of Australian politics seemed to go through middle ground. Domestically, a middle course of social and labour under a government which had been predominantly labour for the past 42 years. On foreign policy, the attitude of most people we met, some of whom you will meet in a moment, betrayed less alarm and hysteria about the world situation than we had encountered anywhere. As in most other countries we'd visited, the focal point of all discussions on world affairs was Russia and its intentions. I was surprised to find that unlike the attitude of Australian policy as it is reflected in the conference of the United Nations, there was a good deal of go easy sentiment from people on Sydney's streets and elsewhere, a feeling that the West should try to cooperate more with the Soviets. In Sydney's Town Hall one night in the course of a question period following an address on the subject of one world, several people in the audience called for this. I should like to say that the American people that it is better for the American people to be friendly with Russia rather than hold the atomic bomb as a threat over their heads. This tolerant attitude toward Russia did not mean acceptance of communism in Australia from all that we could gather. The communists did very poorly at the national elections which fell across our visit and there were a few people who felt that communism might menace to the peace. I do, I do. I definitely do think it is. I definitely think that communism is detrimental to the future and the place of the world. But again and again we heard pleas for cooperation as against antagonism, for unity as against insularity. Mr. Robertson for another took this view. People of the world don't like fascism on account of its arrogant nature or lonely of those the strong arm tactics. People of moderate views and decency are entitled to a fair share of the good things of the world and with America, with Britain, America and Russia united they could maintain the peace of the world if they acted in sincerity. In the course of our two weeks in Australia we had a chance to visit only one other district the mining, manufacturing and sheep raising district of Bathurst ten miles west of Sydney. To get there we drove over first class roads through gently rolling farming country across a wide and beautiful river and up into mountains that resembled the Appalachians for a while then broke off into rock formations and valleys that looked like parts of New Mexico. We arrived in Bathurst to find a pleasant provincial town which seemed American western in character like some of the towns in Colorado. It was in two factories of Bathurst that our inquiries about one world met with especially vigorous recommendations for compromise on world economic issues. These highly optimistic comments came not from the ranks of labor as they had in some other countries, but from management. The owner of a prosperous canning plant Max Edgel strongly urged a cooperative peace. The bogie of communism and I think a great deal less than it was some years ago and anyway we're beginning to realize that communists are ordinary people much like ourselves and their views cannot in the long run be so very greatly different to our own and why shouldn't one be optimistic what's the good of being pessimistic? I think it's only by optimism that we can create the better world we can get better living conditions perhaps shorter hours of work and perhaps more money to spend and more leisure for sport maybe that's the best thing with the thing we all want but whatever it is, we've got to work together and be optimistic of the final result. And across the city from him in a plant by the name of the California Company the general administrator Robert Spate was also in favor of striking a balance between extremes of economic theory. To put it briefly and definitely not to commit myself in any way politically I would say that a balance must be struck between the original endeavour of private enterprise together with governmental support that should work favorably in any country you do not feel that there is an irreconcilable conflict between one and the other there may be in certain sectors but if they got together I don't see why there should be any trouble at all. We interviewed a number of workers in each factory and got some curious answers to questions I asked a seamstress named Mrs. Franks what she would recommend to solve the world's problems. The question by the way being interrupted by a klaxon signaling the end of the working day. Have you ever had any ideas of what you would do if you were a high authority and could make up laws? Oh, the only thing I'd like to do if I had in a high position I'd like to have a home for children and you know, home for children. And unequally unexpected answer came from the girl sitting across the workbench from her. If you had the chance to see any person you wanted in the world to meet any person you wanted who would you most prefer to meet? Sonja Hennie I think. Why Sonja Hennie? Oh, I don't know, I think she's so graceful and everything on skates. Oh, I'd just like to say hello Sonja Hennie that's all. And there was a chap whom Bland asked what he liked most, what he enjoyed most in American movies. What is it? Murderous. You, uh, why do you like murderous? Oh, and I'll give you something to think about. One morning we drove out over a winding country road to a sheep station. A small station pasturing only a few thousand sheep out of the 105 million which make Australia the world's leading producer. It was the shearing season and a group of laboratory sheers were on the job. They were a strong lot of men as they'd have to be for this back-breaking job. Mainly a quiet, reserved bunch as compared to the dockside workers and they seemed not so much interested in matters unrelated to to world affairs as to matters related to sheep. There was among them none of the hurly-burly animation we heard at a sheep auction and incidentally which we recorded for you. This part of the country, though only a few hours from Sydney by road, was called Back Blocks, the equivalent to our Backwoods country and the dialect of its people varied a good deal from what we heard in the city. Here's a moment of an interview I had with an eight-year-old boy. What kind of games do you play? Guess I'm the only one. Which one? Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. Run around. Which one? Run around. Run around.  Yeah. You go to the movies, any? Say your part? You go to the movie pictures? Yeah. What do you? When they come. Well, don't they come pretty often? Oh, they're twelve months. They're very twelve months. Every twelve months, eh? I've been here for a good while. These were the Back Blocks, districts where movies come but once a year, yet the world and its problems were well known to Terry's sheep station in Bunamagu. The tidings of war and peace, the news of Potsdam, Hiroshima, Bikini, Fulton, Missouri, all had made their way over the Blue Mountains to this place. An old sheepherder named Roughly, a bronze, thin and wiry man whose sheepdog put on a great exhibition of corraling forests, had a kind of rustic witt which made me think of the montas I have known. He, uh, had a sort of rye skepticism about his sources of information. You have doubts more or more doubts about the things that you read in the paper or about what you hear on the air? Better our local paper more than anywhere. He was not especially happy about the latest scientific accomplishments of our age. Well, now, uh, what do you think about the atomic bomb? You don't watch about that? I think it's a pity they were discovered. Now that we have it, what do you recommend we do about it? I'm not in one thing to do, let everybody have it. Far from considerations of atomic energy, hundreds of miles off to the western north of this gently hilly sheepland live the Aborigines, a fading race who numbered about 300,000 at the time of the first white settlements and who today are little more than 50,000. These, the native Australians, have been left largely to themselves in the 150 years during which the thin strip of coastal civilization which we recognize as Australia was being developed. They were left to their own resources, customs, totems, myths, birth rate and death rate. They were left to helplessness and inarticulateness, voiceless except for their songs, songs such as you hear in this recording. These people in some places as close to modern, thriving cities as New York is to Chicago are nevertheless as remote to the average white Australian as Eskimos to a Bostonian. They are dying off through no persecution. There were never any of the cruel massacres or exploitation which went along with the settling of so many other primitive countries. They were never taken in slavery, but they have never been accepted either or given any sustained concern or encouragement. They have only the crudest health and educational services and no political entity whatever. It seemed to me almost as though Australia had not yet had the time or the interest to think of ways of stopping the decline of the people headed toward extinction or of raising them from their low and backward estate. This is all the more surprising in view of the fact that in most respects Australia is progressive, fiercely democratic, imbued with a sense of equality and ambitious to achieve the highest standards of social life for its seven million people. In the basic functioning of its democratic system it is even further advanced than many in its democracy. For example, voting is compulsory. You're fined if you don't vote. The names of candidates for office are printed on the ballot without party designation or affiliation under the assumption that a voter should be sufficiently acquainted with the names and qualifications of office seekers before he goes to the polls. This helps take the emphasis off the party machine and puts it on the individual. The national elections fell across our calendar and the government was returned without any great contest. We had our microphone at the Sydney Town Hall on election night hoping to capture some of the atmosphere of the tally room but compared to what goes on in any big city here on election night it was quiet and sedate. All you could hear were occasional reports being relayed or broadcast as they came in by telephone from various parts of the city, state and country. Waitfield is sharing signs of a hard fight with a sitting Labour member Mr Smith who is just a slightest lead over Mr McBride, the Liberal candidate and former member of the National Parliament who is challenging him closely. The Australians insist on keeping their election campaigns safe from any navery in the last hour. No campaigning may be done on the radio or elsewhere in the two days prior to election. This, they say, is to prevent any unfair or illegal last-minute trick which the opposition might not have time to reply to. On election day early returns are never announced until after the polls have closed in order not to influence undecided voters. This sort of good sense was one of the dominant qualities in the Australians we met. It was mixed in with a sobriety, a strong business sense, love of country and a fanaticism for sports. They're mad about horse racing, cricket and tennis and on top of all this they have a bouncing and warm vitality which is reflected for one thing in their prolific slang. In the cultural field I found more zeal and energy than anywhere else in the world. Their press while largely conservative in politics is nevertheless lively and scrappy and torn. Books and magazines are all over. They're very proud of their artists but have a symphony orchestra in each of the five state capitals. New writers and composers are constantly encouraged. For example a composer named John Antel wrote a suite based on Aboriginal music and when the work was engaged for performance by the London Philharmonic the people of Sydney raised a fund to send him to England to hear the premiere of his work. That this was no mere hybrid movement to bring culture to the people but went deep within the government was confirmed in an interview I had with W.J. McKell then Premier of New South Wales and since elevated to the post of Governor-General of the country. Mr. McKell, born a butcher's son and in his youth Australia's middleweight boxing champion spoke with great pride of the care taken to accommodate sparsely populated areas. Devices such as travelling schools, correspondence courses, lending libraries, even itinerant orchestras and paintings. Our idea is not only to get our orchestras to our country towns but we also desire to get our pictures whatever pictures we have to the country towns. See in the art world we have established what we call travelling art exhibitions and periodically we take a number of pictures from our National Art Gallery in Sydney and those pictures are taken to the respective country towns. The interview with Mr. McKell was the last of our Australian visit. Next morning we went down to Rose Bay, one of the beautiful harbours of Sydney and boarded a flying boat for New Zealand a thousand miles away. A number of vivid impressions of Australia came along on that plane with us. Impressions of a clean, healthy, forward-looking nation which is just discovering its cultural potential and the possibilities inherent in its continent. A continent which I was told could profitably support five or ten times its present population. The single most heartening thing to me as a traveller looking for signs of peace, unity and one world was the attitude of Australians toward the rest of the globe. Their geographical isolation down between the equator and the Antarctic has given them a perspective on world affairs which is unique and refreshing for its calmness, its lack of hysteria and its general optimism. Few among them thought there would be any war and this optimism ranged from the dark end who said of the peace that it would go on for an easy hundred years and over through the business executive who said of the prospect of war I'm not worried about it. All the way up to the new Governor-General. Well my view is optimistic. There will be no war in the near future. These men were speaking for a country which, although energetic, has never tried to push anyone around. A country which has never gone to war against its immediate neighbors. Something that cannot be said of many countries on this earth. And it seemed to me last fall that Australia would prefer to keep this record intact. Especially now that its immediate neighbors include everybody in the world. This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System.


Welcome back. This is our 21st show in a series of shows entitled Rehabilitation Coming Soon, where we have been discussing the mass incarceration practices of the United States and the effects of those practices on the state of Hawaii. I'm Aaron Wills, a William S. Richardson Law School graduate and a research consultant for Abigail Quantum-Nicola Research Center and a paralegal for retired Judge Mike Town's private mediation practice. Over the past four months we have heard from numerous professionals in the community who are willing to discuss the criminal justice system and see the problem of mass incarceration from different perspectives. Today we'd like to hear the perspective from the Chief Public Defender, Jack Tanaki. Jack Tanaki joined the Office of Public Defender as a trial attorney in 1985 and has been leading the office since his appointment in 2000. Mr. Tanaki has spent as extensive trial experience having handled over 150 jury trials throughout his career. Mr. Tanaki earned a Bachelor's of Arts degree from the University of Hawaii at Minoa in 1982 and a Juris Doctorate from the University of California, Hastings College of Law in 1985. Welcome, Jack, to the show and thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me, Aaron. All right. Well, the first thing that I want to kind of just approach is just, you know, what kind of cases do the public defender's office, what kind of cases do they usually take on? Well, we are under a statutory authority to take any cases involving indigent criminal defendants. In other words, those are defendants who cannot afford to hire private counsel. And we handle any type of case that has the possibility of a jail term. So in real terms, you're talking about everything from the most minor of cases such as petty theft, disorderly conduct, driving under the influence, all the way to the most serious cases, some of the stuff that you see in the media such as homicide, sexual assault. And we have about 103 attorneys statewide and our offices operate on every major island. Our main office is in Honolulu. We have offices in Kauai, Maui, and two offices on the big island, Hilo and Kona. Okay.  We do a financial qualification. So with each client that comes into the office seeking public defender services, we have them fill out a financial statement. So you have to be, depending on the type of case, you have to qualify financially for us to take that case. Okay. And how many public defenders do you guys have in your office right now? We have about 103 attorneys statewide, as I said, and we appear in every level of the state courts, from district court, which handles the misdemeanor, petty misdemeanor, the most, the less serious cases, to family court, which handled juvenile cases and domestic violence, to the circuit court, which handles felony cases, and also we do cases on appeal to the Intermediate Court of Appeals as well as the Supreme Court. Oh, wow. Okay. Now, what is the current structure of your office? How is the office run?  We have a, as in every state office, we have a supervisory staff that administers a staff of attorneys that mans each particular court. So mainly we structure our office to go by the level of case that is handled in that particular court. So, for instance, Honolulu, we have a district court section, handles a lot of the traffic offenses, as well as the more, the misdemeanor, petty misdemeanor criminal offenses, the things I talked about, like petty theft, disorderly conduct, simple assaults, you know, bar room fights, those kind of things. And then we have the family court division, which handles juvenile offenders, as well as domestic violence, and then our circuit court division, which handles the more serious felony offenses, those things that you see in the media. Right, right. Now, I know you guys, you know, you're kind of, I mean, I know a lot of public defenders and I've had a lot of friends who are actually public defenders and, you know, they don't complain about their case, but it's just known, you know, when you work as a law clerk, you know that the public defenders have a high case load. What are some reasons for that? I mean... Well, the biggest reason is that over the years, the legislature has passed more and more criminal offenses, which affect a lot more people and are outlawing more and more types of conduct. And also adding to the high case loads are people are just unable to afford private attorneys. Right, yeah. That's true. I'll give you an example. If you are charged with a DUI, this is a simple, pretty simple case, happens every day, you need to probably have two to $3,000 in liquid assets to hire a private counsel. And that's at the low end, okay? If you get charged with something like a burglary or any type of felony offense, it just goes up from there. So, you know, simple burglary, you might need five to $10,000 to hire a private attorney. So you can imagine how many people cannot afford to hire counsel or to hire attorneys for their children who may get in trouble. Absolutely, yeah. Well, let's kind of switch gears here and let's talk about the specialty courts. You know, I know there's a... and these are just the ones I know of drug court, mental health court, veterans court and hope probation. And we can take those apart each by one if we want to. But how are these specialty courts benefiting defendants? Well, the specialty courts have really blossomed in the last probably 20 to 30 years in our court system. And I think that the main motivating factor for creating these various specialty courts were the growing number of cases, especially drug cases in the case of drug court. Drug court, actually the first real specialty court was the family court system because that's the system where you dealt with the juvenile offenses. But, you know, that structurally was created by the judiciary a long time ago. So I would say that that was the first specialty courts. But then in recent years, the last 20 to 30 years, you have courts which address different types of subject matter. And the drug court is probably the original type of this specialty court. And the theory behind drug court is there's so many offenses which are either directly involving drugs like possession of drugs, distribution of drugs, or are a symptom of drug abuse, like death. A lot of people have to commit death, burglaries to support their happen. So the drug court came about as a way to deal with all of these cases and all of the problems that are caused by substance abuse. And then from there, you had development of other types of courts, the most recent of which is the Veterans Treatment Court, which you have so many veterans now are coming back, especially after the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and they're having some real adjustment problems. And those problems include a lot of times substance use, excessive substance use, but also a lot of domestic problems. So a lot of you have combat veterans that are suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome and those types of ailments. And so the Veterans Court was developed as a way to recognize what these veterans were suffering from, recognize their unique problems, and try to treat those problems humanely and compassionately. And it's been a real success. So that's basically in a nutshell how these specialty courts came about. Cool. Well, you know, I used to work for Hope Probation as a law clerk for a while. And, you know, one thing that I kind of, you know, Judge Alm always tried to prepare what he called, or compare what he called probation as usual versus Hope Probation. So, you know, and when I looked at it and took a step back, I says, you know, if you're going to have to be put under a whole bunch of rules for probation, Hope Probation is the best thing there is going. Because the way it works is if you follow the rules for two years, Judge Alm cuts your probation, you know, at the two-year market. There's no more reason for you to go through any more of this because you've showed for two years that you can pass all the drug tests. You can, you know, follow your probation officer's rules. So I mean, I think programs like that really need to get more attention because, you know, if you're going to have a bunch, the only, the problem is on the back end of it, if you're, if you're one person that messes up a lot, you're going to just do a lot of jail time. Sure. Yeah. And, you know, programs like that have Hope Probation and Drug Court have, their success is proven and they've saved so many people from what would have been longer jail terms. So it, it, these courts pay off from the standpoint that not only do they compassionately treat the offenders, but they also save the state a lot of money because it costs a heck of a lot to, to incarcerate people. That's right. Because incarceration, I believe, costs somewhere around 50 to 60,000 a year or more. Yeah. And then, yeah, when we go into the numbers deeper when it's a woman gets incarcerated and she has three children and she's a single parent, you know, and all the kids who come words at the state and so the cost goes up from there exponentially. Let's see, where is there something I was going to ask you about? Oh, to go into just to ask a little bit about drug court. I know there's a long wait list for drug court and that constantly is an issue because the demand for to get into drug court is so high. Is the problem really drug court or is it because there's not enough rehabilitation programs out there to serve the amount of need that we actually have? Yeah. Well, I think we could expand drug court to more than it is right now, but you're right, you know, the limitations of these courts and that's drug court hope probation included is the availability of substance abuse programming. And, you know, because the courts themselves cannot engage as you know in a day to day counseling of the people, the clients that are in the program, that has to fall upon the substance abuse programs. So there is a great need for that more money needs to be put into these programs so that they can accommodate more persons. You know, and I mean, the issue is always money, but in my opinion, the state has to look at it from the standpoint of well, how much does it cost to incarcerate this person if they're not going to be following the rules or if they're going to persist with their substance abuse problem, it's going to cost a lot more to, as you said, 50 to 60,000 or more a year to incarcerate that person as opposed to pouring some of that money, a fraction of that money into the substance abuse programs. So it's kind of like maintaining a car, you know, if you don't put money into the maintenance of the car, you're going to pay an end with a big repair bill. So yeah. And bringing that up and we'll go into this, we'll talk a little bit about the overcrowding issue we have at OCCC and Halava right now. So we'll be right back with Jack Tanaki. My name is Aaron Wills and this is Rehabilitation Coming Soon. Hi, I'm Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist here in Hawaii and I'm the host of Shrink Wrap Hawaii, which is on Tuesdays at three o'clock. Have a great summer.  Aloha. My name is Danelia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. We are the co-host of Keys to Success, which is live on ThinkTech live streaming network series weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m. Aloha. Aloha. Hey everybody, my name is David Chang and I am a new host for the show, The Art of Thinking Smart. I'm really excited to be able to share with you how to get the smart edge in life. We're going to have awesome guests in the military, business, political, nonprofit world. So no matter what background you're from, we have something for you. Please join us every other Thursday at 10 a.m. at ThinkTechHawaii.com or on TheArtOfThinkingSmart.com. I look forward to seeing you. Just a minute. Welcome back. I'm Aaron Wills and this is Rehabilitation Coming Soon and we are sitting here with our guest, Jack Tanaki. Okay, Jack, I just wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, there's been a lot of articles written about the overcrowding issue that's going on at OCCC. We see it because, like I said, I work in whole probation so you hear the defendants complain about it all the time. And then there's also an issue about Halabah and one of the things they brought up about OCCC is that, you know, it was built in 1913 or something like that and everything, like you said, no maintenance is really put into it and it's falling apart. How bad is the issue over there if you can comment on it at all or even if you know? And do you think a new jail needs to be built or should we build it like some of the ideas are just to put one on top of Halabah and have both of them housed in the same area, I guess? Well, you know, it is almost at a crisis level. The overcrowding, the condition of the facilities, I don't, you know, there are other people who can speak about that. But as I see it, it's a crisis level and something is going to need to be done in the next decade at least, if not sooner. But the question and the debate at this point is going to be what do we do? Do we, you know, maintain the current facilities that we have? Do we upgrade those or do we build a new facility? And that's a huge political football. I think that's been kicked around for, I don't know, how many years. And I would like to see, and I think that the city prosecutors also spoke about this, that, you know, developing more of like a minimum security facility, which includes a very prolific substance abuse aspect to it, rather than building these big monstrosities with all of these walls. I mean, there are always going to be, there's going to be a need for some facility like that to house the most dangerous prisoners. But the vast majority of them are not a serious public safety danger, but they do have a lot of issues like substance abuse. And they will continue to commit property crimes if their substance abuse issues are not addressed. So I think the majority of the prison population, they need to take that view toward it from the rehabilitation because, you know, 80 to 90 percent or maybe more of these prisoners will return to society at some point. And they need to have the tools to reintegrate back into the community. Yep. No, I agree. We had Senator Sparrow on here, as I told you before the show, and, you know, he got on here and he was, you know, as I was following the way he was talking about, the way he was supporting this, he was always on board of building new places. Well, he came on our show and said, now he's off board of that because it's going to cost, he said, in the range of somewhere over a billion dollars for two new facilities. And so what he was suggesting is building what he calls a reentry program or reentry building where they come and they stay there. And it's kind of like they do these reentry programs until they're ready to be released out into society. And, you know, my whole thing that we started the show on was we wanted to try to bring awareness of we're spending $50, $60 million a year giving CCA to manage our prisoners in Arizona. We need to bring those people back. We need a facility to put them. But as you said, and Warden Patterson brought this up, it's like our system is a cookie cutter system. Because we have some really bad criminals that we have to house in maximum security, we also have to house everybody else there too. And so it does need to be a different system. And I don't know really what the answer is, other than, I mean, I believe that we need to spend the money, you know, because these the crimes aren't going down. And the people over there that were doing their time, it's, you know, Senator Sparrow brought it to the point where it was at like 1,800. Now it's down to like 1,500. I mean, if we're going at that rate, it will never go down below 1,000, you know, in 20 years. And, you know, I mean, I think when you speak to people who are very committed like Senator Sparrow and many others who are in a criminal justice system, we're pretty much all in agreement as to what's needed. But it just needs to be solidified and put into action. A reentry center is an excellent idea. And that's just a different take, I think, than what I spoke about earlier about a minimum security facility with substance abuse.  And I know they're trying to get this done. And there's some real committed leaders. So hopefully, you know, we can see some movement on this. I agree. It needs to really happen right now. So I wanted to ask you, what are some hot button cases right now at the PDs as far as what's going on? Well, you know, of course, drug cases are always there. It's, you know, that is probably substance, either possession, distribution of drugs or property crimes that are caused by people supporting drug habits is always probably going to make up, you know, 75% of our cases or more. Right now, one of the real hot button issues that we're trying to address is these offenses which are recent creation of the City Council and the legislature to criminalize a lot of the homeless issues. So we're dealing with a really high increase in cases like being in a close park and, you know, sidewalk violations and those type of things. And these cases are problematic from many standpoints. One is just that, you know, they mainly target the homeless population and that population really has no place to go other than the parks. And they can kick them out of a park or they can kick them off the sidewalk and they just move right down the block. So now you have instead of one violation, you got two violations and it's endless. But it also has unintended circumstances because you have a lot of kids back from college, high school kids that are getting caught in the closed parks.  They play this Pokemon Go game. And I've told him, don't be in a park, pass. You got to look at the sign when the park closes because what happens is the citation, the police come to the park, they issue these citations, it involves a court date. And you got to get an attorney and everything. A lot of people think, well, we can just pay it by mail or it's like a traffic citation. That's not the case because the law that was created created a criminal offense. So now you got to get an attorney, you got to go to court and if they're back home from college for the summer, they got to move around their court date to adjust to when they're going to be back home again. So it's a big, it's a hassle and it was never intended to, I don't think it was ever intended to criminalize these people, but that's the effect that it's had. So it's been an overreaction to the homeless situation from the standpoint of making these violations criminal. And then it just ensnares all of these other people. So how long has that law been on the book? Has it been on for a year yet? It's been on, the closed parks has been on for a few years now. So how many cases a year do you see just closed park cases? Actually, I think between the last fiscal year and this fiscal year there was an increase of, I think about the last statistics I saw from the court of a few thousand cases. Wow. And it may have been on the books earlier, but it wasn't really being enforced. But now, because of all of the pressure from the public regarding people in the park and on the sidewalks, the police have started enforcing it. I can understand that. And that doesn't sound like there's an easy answer to that because, like we were talking about earlier, the homeless issue, they're just moving them around and not really solving the actual underlying issue, which is the cost of living. And you know, we've fought against these bills in the legislature, but unfortunately they're... And I mean, it's understandable if you live or work in a certain area of town and, you know, you start seeing encampments crop up in that area of town. It is somewhat upsetting. But there's a lot of public pressure on the politicians, so they react in really the only easy way that... I mean, the easiest way they know how to pass a criminal law, but that's really not the answer. It can't be the answer in the long run. Well, actually, I don't think they really thought it really through because if they criminalize all these actions, these people have no money. What goes back on the public defense, which is just another state agency sucking up all the resources. So let's talk about how Hawaii is compared to other states. How is Hawaii compared as far as violent crime is concerned to other states in the community? I think from that standpoint, violent crime, we're very lucky. We hear about cases involving homicide and shooting, stabbings, but those are relatively rare. You know, you just heard about this case on a mainland where Dwayne Wade's cousin was shot. And for the most part, we don't have those types of incidents happening here. And then one of the reasons for that is Hawaii has very strict gun laws. And that's why in this whole debate about... And I understand the Second Amendment, the people who are strong on the Second Amendment, but Hawaii is very restrictive in where you can carry a firearm, how you have to secure the firearm. How many bullets you can have in your magazine? Exactly. So semi-automatics are outlawed. So that really does have an effect, I think, because although you do see the occasional gun violence here, it's not on the scale of other major cities that are of like size. Just to give a little background on what Jack is talking about, Dwayne Wade's cousin was a female walking on the side of the street with, I believe, a daughter walking her daughter. And there was exchange of gunfire between, they think, gang members. And she was hit as a bystander and killed. And if you know Chicago, and if you know anything about the history of Chicago, they've had gun violence and gun issues over there. And they have very strict gun laws there, too, but it doesn't seem to help. And Chicago is not a real good comparison with Honolulu. It's a lot larger, like LA-8, that kind of thing. But I do think that by having these very restrictive gun laws here, it discourages those types of crimes going on. I agree. Well, we're at the end of our show. So thank you very much, Jack, for coming on our show today. Thank you, Aaron. It was a pleasure. All right. And so join us next week for another show of rehabilitation coming soon as we continue our discussion of the criminal justice system and the effect of mass incarceration on the state of Hawaii. And stay tuned because coming up next is Sustainable Hawaii with Kirsten Turner. Thank you.