The recording started to and now there are still no attendees though. Oh, that's just recording. There is get rid of the practice session. We're no longer in practice session. I, it doesn't say that on mine anymore. What's this practice session. I said, let's start the webinar. I start. Okay. It said it was recording. It says a prejudice raised his hand. Yes. Oh, here's a bunch of people. Okay. Let's go. Now that they're here. Promote. Ashley. Promote. Promote. Okay. Is everyone coming? Yep. I see Ashley. Let me see who else I see. I see Rob. Rovers and Allegra's here. Okay. And here's Grover. Promote. And as attendees, we have George Ryan, our note taker, John Hornick, Laura Baker, and Tim from Craig's doors. Great. Now George's hand is down. So I assume everything's okay. Yeah, maybe he was, I, when I first clicked on attendees, I couldn't see anybody. Maybe he was just telling me there were people there that I didn't notice. And, uh, hello and welcome. Nate is, uh, we'll be joining us a little bit late. So we're trying to do the Zoom techie part that he usually does. Thank you. We have a quorum. So. Great. Okay. Well, thank you for your patience and thank you for letting Carol and I, um, get your all into being panelists and being part of the meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It is 702 July 13th. The Amherst municipal affordable housing trust meeting has started and it is being recorded. So just to remind everybody that this is being recorded. Um, so welcome everybody. Um, we're going to go ahead and start with our first item on the agenda, which is the review of the minutes from June, from the June meeting. Um, so. Um, we're going to go ahead and start with our next item on the agenda. Um, corrections, corrections. Comments. I'll just give a few minutes. Not seeing anybody's hands up. Or coming off mute. We will go ahead and accept the minutes as they stand and thank George Ryan for doing the minutes for tonight. So we will now go to the next item on the agenda. Um, we have our June 20th listening session on affordable housing. Um, so let me start, but I would love to have my. Uh, co planners to also, um, jump in, uh, as well as those of you who came that evening. So let me just start. Um, we, uh, with the community safety and social justice, uh, committee, we actually plan this. Um, so Allegra being the chair and Philip also from that committee, uh, human rights committee, uh, Phillip Avila and Liz Hey, good, uh, health department was Nancy Gilbert from our housing trust, Ashley, Allegra and me. Uh, and then from the town, Jennifer moist and Nate. Um, so we were, um, able to pull the, uh, in person meeting together. We had over 40 people attend the meeting and representation really was very, very diverse in terms of, uh, people who were unhoused or who are, um, in, uh, who are being sheltered to homeowners, to renters, um, to individuals who really, um, have lived experience with challenges with affordable rental as well as affordable, um, uh, owning a home or staying in a home, um, as well as advocates, um, were there. Um, so we right now, um, are in the process of pulling a report together. Um, and unfortunately, I haven't had time to get it completed, but, um, we had over 20 people submit their comments and, uh, unclear if some of those people were there or not. Um, we were very clear that we want, um, ensure anonymity, which we will continue to do so. Um, but, um, we really had a range of themes, uh, and I don't think it will surprise you. We've discussed many of the themes here, uh, just in terms of, um, for our last planning meeting where we sort of debriefed some of the high level themes that came out of this, uh, that would not surprise you is, um, looking at, um, ways that we can encourage, um, more affordable housing through possible density, change of zoning regulations, um, uh, enforcing regulations that exist now around rentals, um, in around, um, student housing, uh, reducing regulations to delay development, um, or impact the development of affordable housing, subsidies for individuals for, uh, rentals, affordable rentals, as well as for, um, uh, buying houses. So, um, incentives for, or subsidies for, um, actually able to, to buy a home or, uh, provide a mortgage for it and send us to developers, uh, to develop affordable housing and to maintain affordable housing versus, um, that that then changes, uh, engaging with developers and also then, um, thinking about, uh, how to address working with UMass to increase, uh, housing on campus or creating housing on campus. Um, there are lots of nuances in between, so I'm going to stop here and ask, um, um, my colleagues who were there that evening, um, if they want to also just, uh, provide some highlights of what they might have heard, um, to be some of the issues. Go ahead, Ashley. Well, so at my table, I, you know, I talked to a person that was not housed. I think they are actually staying at, um, Craig's door right now amongst others, of course. And I was struck by how hard the process is, um, particularly if you don't have housing at all. Um, and I know because of being on the, the trust, but also because I went through the experience, you know, three months of rent of moving into a place that costs $1,100 is $3,300. And to think a homeless person is going to get $3,300 to be able to live in Amherst is a very high bar. It is, it is hard. And I have a job for me to like, save $3,300. The process is so hard. The bar is so high. And the rent is still three times as much as like most people that need housing can really afford. We're still making very expensive affordable housing with the bar so high that a lot of people are just not going to make it. And so that part of the process, we don't bring up a lot. It's just too hard for a lot of people to ever get to. Thank you, Ashley. Um, Rob Allegra, you were there as well. Um, I was at a table, um, with somebody who spoke of her experience and she's in an affordable unit right now. And the number of people in her family is five and the number of bedrooms that they have is two. And so just thinking, even though the person has affordable, affordable housing at this point, it's inadequate for the needs of that particular family and the size of the family. So I, I think that, and I think Ashley kind of thought that this might come up before the meeting thinking about like, what about people who have housing and it's not enough, you know, it's not adequate for them. And so it did come up. And it was interesting because, you know, you don't want to lose the affordability, but that's, you know, they're not just going to add a bedroom to your unit. And unless somebody moves out of a three bedroom, it's really hard to find something in that size. So, you know, I was, it made me think again about in terms of looking at some of the projects that we have coming down the road. What are the bedroom size mixes going to be and, and can we look at is, is there a way to influence in our conversation with, you know, way finders or Valley CDC or whoever's doing some of the various projects about, you know, maybe we need three, you know, a few more three bedroom units because there might be families who really need that size unit. So that was, that was a big thing that came up in my group talked a lot about rent control.  I think it was 39% from one year to the next. And again, to the point where they had to think about, are we downsizing to a smaller unit? Because we can't afford this. So it was, I mean, I know that rent has been going up, but to hear that stark number was really, it was eye-opening for me.  It's going to be pretty stable. But the way that Amherst taxes have continued to go up and up and up, it's not been so stable. So that was, you know, I think, I think the cost was a big thing and the size. Those were two big things that I took away from my group. Grover, do you want to add anything? I think it's a little bit of a shame. I think it's a little bit of a shame to be reminded in your list, Erica, but really the tension of university and student housing was live in a number of ways that are table.  One thing he named was that even when apartments are listed as available or listed as. Not actually available or they're renting them out by room, even though it says that they're available for the apartment. And that he said that this included sometimes the housing that was listed by the university. So it's just really showing or that illustrated to me that whatever data even we scrape offline might not like is less accurate than even I would think and I'm fairly skeptical. But I think it's a little bit of a shame. And really that the university housing and housing students piece is still very much there, not just for what it does to the whole market economy, but also for individual students. Thank you. Robert Nate, do you want to add anything? Yeah, I think for me, the value in the event was, you know, you know, I don't want to talk about, you know, what the issues are around affordability. You know, it's, it's one thing to hear a report or read a report or, you know, to talk about it amongst ourselves, but, but to talk, to hear people who, who aren't routinely engaged with it like we are. You know, everyone has a, has a different story, a different angle on, on, on what makes something unaffordable or, or, or what they would like to see and, and, and having people hear from others. I think just raises awareness and I think that, that was helpful to me. I think, you know, I was, I wasn't really sure what to expect from the event, but it seems like something that, you know, if it happens, you know, annually or even more regularly, it might be useful for, you know, the more people know about the issue, the more likely they're, they are to be willing to think about it or to be receptive to proposals. Yeah, I want to piggyback on that in, in my group, something that stood out for me was, you know, we can come up with solutions, but if we don't talk to individuals who we think the solutions impact, we miss things.  So we think the solution is okay vouchers. And then what we don't see, if we don't talk to individuals who experienced this or advocates who are working with individuals who are trying to get this, we don't even understand the sort of constant high bar of even trying to get one, but once you do get one and you can't find a place, they expire and the person's not housed. And it's just that the hopes are there about being housed and then they can't get housed. And so it's so important to be listening to individuals and we had a spectrum of individuals who were, you know, either looking for a place to be housed or unhoused and the struggles and the amount of energy it takes to address these housing issues, it's just so, it's hard. It's really hard and we need to do a better job. And I think, you know, some of the recommendations that I think we're not going to be surprised at the recommendations, but I think it really gives us an opportunity to think about some priorities and where we can make some dense in this. But it is complex and it is so important that we constantly go back to people and hear their experiences and how things are working or not working. So the next steps in this is pulling all of this together and then sharing it far and wide. It's going to go through, you know, the planning group first just to make sure the planning group feels that, you know, that the voices of the individuals who participated and there was a range, you know, absolute range of individuals who participated is, you know, is coming through this. And so we're going to include quotes. Again, there's nothing in any of our notes that would identify individuals. But we really think it'd be important to have quotes in here straight from individuals who participated. So once we, you know, share the report, I mean, I think for us in terms of the affordable housing trust, it's a good basis for thinking about our strategic planning and our next steps, but it's also a really good opportunity to then think about how to collaborate with others in areas that are identified where we can actually do that, either by amplifying some of the advocates who are working on these issues or legislation that John's going to talk about. There's just so many opportunities to really try to make a dent in increasing affordable housing and for the things that do exist to make them work. Okay, so anybody else questions, comments, feedback? Go ahead, Ashley. Just real quick, I mean, about that thing, like basically you can get a voucher, but then you can't even afford what the rent would be even when the voucher is paying for two thirds of it and the person is paying one-thirds of it. So all of the latter from a person that actually has the Section 8, they can't find anything affordable and then people who are sometimes couples have good incomes and the starting prices of houses are 500,000 and 600,000. So it's like from the most bottom person not finding a room and an apartment to two professional people not being able to find a starter home, Amherst is unaffordable for every level of human being and that's why 25-year-olds, 49-year-olds are not living here. Like there's no point. You can't afford anything if you're 25 to 49. You almost have to have had a house for 20 or 30 years to live here or find a tax credit apartment, which I was lucky to find, but there's like 10 of those. It's not like there's not hundreds, you know. So Amherst is unaffordable for just about everyone. Thank you, Ashley. So we have to think about how we turn this around. Grover has a hand up. Oh, thank you, Grover. One thing that I just wanted to say and know as we move into what's next is that I noticed in my conversation and it's, you know, I think Rob alluded to it. The different understandings of what affordable is was very live and even people feel passionately about even that affordable isn't affordable, right? Like the word itself is both confusing and tense and, you know, housing justice advocates all over the country have been dealing with this. Not just us here, but also there's, there was a way like, I think we're like three quarters through the conversation when somebody said, oh, actually right control is not legal in the state of Massachusetts. And so there's also, there's just a public education aspect that I think we'll have to accompany any next thing that we put out. And part of it might be like us on this, in this group, and it's like concentric circles of understanding like, are we talking about the same things? And do we even understand what's possible? Like are there resources that are already exist that we can be like in the state of Massachusetts, this is possible and this is not possible. Like currently rent control is not possible. Currently this department provides funding for this, right? Like something that will even just show the pathways with possibility. Cause I think people get into contentious conversations, but they don't even necessarily have a shared understanding or are talking about solutions that are currently possible or not possible. And then that will help us identify what policies we might look to change or what resources we might utilize to make the changes that we're hoping for. So. Thank you for offer. I did note that in one of the submitted, or either was in one of the notes that someone suggested instead of affordable attainable. And in looking at, you know, the plus 20 submissions, you're right, there was a range. I think only very few people, there was one person that actually said 25% of the income and others, you know, said 30%. But it was really about a diverse thriving community of families and individuals who could afford to live in Amherst and still be able to afford the needed things such as food and clothing, et cetera. So yes, I think that's a very, very good point. And then I think it also might help us with our strategic plan as well. If we're clear about what the pathways are, then we can better think about what we want to prioritize in those pathways. And then we do have as part of our last strategic plan, a whole goal around educating community members. All right. Just want to make sure no other hands are up. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for contributing to, you know, how you experienced this and the highlights. I don't think I started with the themes, but I didn't do justice to really the wonderful, I think human conversation that was so important for us to hear and to really think about. Okay. I'm going to move to the next item on the agenda. And I have a pleasure of having Rob give a presentation on the Amherst Community Land Trust, which is also another option for us to consider with regard to how we can promote affordable housing. So Rob, I'm going to turn it to you. Okay. Can I share my screen? Is that a possibility? Nate has to make you host. We have to make you a co-host and then you can, which Rob actually just try as a panelist. You should be able to, unless I have to change. There's host of stable. Go for it. Did I did? I, it's disabled. Yes. Try it again. I just made your co-host. Oh, there we go. I think so. Yeah. Okay. So thank you for the opportunity to talk about one of the things that I do. First of all, I should. Emphasize that, that this is, as Erica said, this is just one. Possible. Element of a large strategy. There are many things that need to be done. And this. Small part of it. It's something that I'm happy to be interested in. And so I'm happy to share what, what, what this is all about. So what does a CLT stand for? That stands for. Amherst community land trust. CLT is, is a community land trust. We're a nonprofit organization. We're, we're like a conservation land trust in that, in that we're formed to permanently hold land. But in the case of a CLT, the land is held not for. A lot of times it's not for ecological purposes or to provide a place for passive recreation. But it's to, it's to provide social or economic benefits for the wider community. For most CLTs. That means affordable housing and specifically home ownership. But it can be many other things, including affordable rentals. Community gardens. And commercial buildings. The North Amherst community farm is a kind of community land trust. This is a single property community land trust. The Amherst community land trust is, is focused on affordable home ownership. And how that works is. When, when a house is sold, you're just buying the house. You're not buying the land value. But so the price is reduced because you're not buying the entire package. However, so the goal, the goal is, is, to remove a house from the speculative market place, make it affordable. It also allows the homeowner to, to build equity over time. It's not, you're not renting, you're actually, you actually own the property. And, and so you own the CLT owns the land. The homeowner buys the house. The house comes at a lower price than they would, if they had to buy the whole thing. And the house comes with the 99 year ground lease. So it. In other words, you have, you have used that land. Or ever, basically. The resident has the ground lease provides. Full use of the land. And gives a resident most of the benefits. And responsibilities of home ownership. They have to maintain the property. They have to pay property taxes. And they can extract equity when they sell the house. On the restriction side. Most CLTs will require under occupancy as, as the average community land trust does. So in other words, you can't, you can't buy a house. And then rent it.  And then stay there. Even if you have, even if you start earning a lot more, you're no longer considered a low income person. You, it's your house. You can own it. You can pass it on your children. You can sell it to somebody else. However, there are limits on. The amount that you can sell the house for. There's a limit on the appreciation. So the resell price is limited to the original purchase price. So the price of the house is limited to the original purchase price. So the price of the house is limited to the original purchase price. Plus part of the appreciation. Now there, the CLTs have various ways of, of, of crediting. Appreciation. Our formula. Allows the price to rise. At the same rate as the area median income. So that means that if a house is. Is affordable for someone at 80%. Which is. You know, the highest level of. Capital affordable. The highest level at the 80% level. Into the future. So whatever the price is sold out, that's, that will still be an 80% affordability. Houseable buyers have to be income qualified. So they, so. As I said, you can, you can buy the house. At whatever your, whatever the house is restricted to 80%. Or 60%. Or whatever. You can grow out of that. But the house stays. At that level. First success of home buyers. Our business model. Well, I should say, first of all, some CLTs. Are designed to be developers. They acquire land and then, and then build and sell affordable houses. Others. Like a CLT acquire existing homes.  And then, and then sell the house. Within that model. There are multiple strategies for acquiring homes and we've, we've already used. Several that I'll. Go through in a minute. In order to. To rely on partnerships with, with a number of organizations throughout town throughout the valley. It's, it's, it's not something that we can possibly do on our own. The ones, the prominent ones we've worked with so far, North Amherst Community Farm, Binder Valley Habitat for Humanity Valley Community Development. And of course the town. So what projects have we done so far? We're, we're a little less than 10 years old. Our first house was our first project was. Our next one was. A CPA funded project to provide a subsidy to purchase a home. Valley CD identified potential. Buyers. Inconqualified them. Oriented them to the, to the program. Conducted a lottery to choose someone who could take. Our subsidy, go find a house. And, and buy it with, with our money and, and, and their. Their money. And that are the first project there. Our next home was actually bequeathed to us. Our founding president. Gave her house. Lock stock and barrel to ACLT, which he passed. And so we were able to, to. It's a house on Besson street, right in the heart of, of, of Amherst center. We sold that house at. Price well below what the market. Would have borne for that house. To just someone who could not otherwise afford. To live in Amherst. The next one was. A house on Longtown road. That. Someone who heard about. Amherst community land trust. And was interested in the model. They, they had been renting it to somebody. That person. They, they agreed to sell. That house. To their tenant. At a below market price. And donate the land value to, to ACLT. So now that house is, is within our portfolio. And it will be affordable. Going forward. And then our, the next. Project was also on Besson street. A homeowner who was currently. In their house. Voluntarily entered into a ground lease with us. Permanently restricting their resale price also to. Something that is. Capital A affordable below 80%. Incoming. Forgoing. The appreciation that that house has. Has. Detained over, over many years. And then our, the next project was also on Besson street. A homeowner who was currently in their house. That house. Has. Detained over, over many years. So our current project is actually a continuation or. Ongoing part of our. The house that. We, we got on Tracy's circle. That CPA. Funding. Subsidies. $225,000 subsidies. Or someone to go out and buy a home. But. At the time we submitted the application that seemed like enough to. For someone to, to find a home. And, and buy it. However. In the intervening years. The housing market has, has continued to. Skyrocket. In order for a home to be affordable at 80% AMI. A family. Of three. Should. Should be looking at something that is no more than. A $225,000 subsidy. To be spending no more than $160,000. Which means with the $125,000 subsidy. They'd have to be looking for a $285,000 home. But there are no homes available for that amount in Amherst anymore. It doesn't happen. And so we haven't been able to, to match. A homeowner. And a home. Because of the market. So we've taken a $75,000 that we. Part of part of the money that we got from selling the first house on Besson street. We're adding to our subsidy. So that the amount available is now $200,000. And the target home price is, is around three 64 family of three. That's, that's more realistic, but it's still rare. There's still not that many homes. Available for that amount in Amherst. So anyone who, who. Qualifies at, at the 80% level who's listening. Or you, or if you know of anyone.  We'd love to be able to, to partner with you. This is our, our. Flyer that, that. The way it works is, is you, you would go through value CD, they would help you qualify. Help you fill out the application. And, and then. And then we would work with you to find the whole. So in summary. We have. Five properties. Counting six homes, one of which is a duplex. And we have one pending. How much does that cost? We've gotten about $360,000. From CPA. And $840,000. In private sources. That's people donating their home or part of their home. Or donating money so that we can, we can apply it to, to. Home purchases. That's a lot of money. And it's still not nearly enough. What did the suit? What does the future hold for us? So based on our experience. We're going to focus on property donations. As our primary means of that position, at least for the near term. We think that there's. A lot of people out there who, who, who are, would be interested in. Giving their home or giving away some value. In fact. Going back to our, to the. The listening session we had. One of the things that we talked about. In the end was. Was this idea that, that homes. You know, grow in value and they'd, and it's not really anything that you've done. They just grow it. And so you suddenly have all this value that you didn't really earn. If you can. If you can. If you can. If you can wrap your mind around that. And, and, and don't have. People that you need to, to, you know, heirs or whatever that or, or health problems that you need to sell your house. If you can afford to give away part of your. If you can. If you buy. Then. This is a way of. Of being driven to, to fixing. Or, or. At least one small part of the housing crisis. Put your house in the, in the land trust. Anyone who's listening and is interest in that. You know, I'd be happy to talk with you about it. We do hope to occasionally supplement with future CPA funding. We don't have any projects in mind, but you know, I hope that's not off the table. And the other thing that we're working on is, is developing a repair replacement reserve fund to assist our homeowners with capital improvements. It doesn't stop at buying the house. You have to take care of it. You have to, you have to put on your roof, you have to replace the furnace and so on. And those things are not cheap. So we're trying to raise money to provide a fund for people to manage those kinds of expenses. And that's it. I'm happy to take questions if anyone has them and thank you for your time. Any questions for Rob? Rob, I have a question. When you talked about land acquisition, you could also just get land and then work with like Habitat for Humanities and they'll build on the land. It doesn't necessarily need to have a home and land at the same time, right? That's right. Yes. Many CLTs do have that as their primary model and we did that for our first project. We had a lot of land around that people are willing to, to go away. That's, that's, yeah, we would love to work with Habitat again. Yeah. Well, I heard Amherst College has some land. Allegra. I'm going to clarify because I know you'd written that the homeowner would pay the property taxes, but with the model. I'm assuming that the property taxes would be less because they're not paying property taxes on the land. Would that be correct? That's right. Yes. So the property taxes based on the market value of the home. And so what we've done is we've reduced the market value of the home we restrict to the resale price. That's what your tax will be based on. Mara Keane has a hand up, but a couple of people have hands up in the audience. Can we call on them? Is that okay with people? Let's see. What am I supposed to do? How do I just let somebody talk? If you look up to the right. Yep. Mara, would you unmute yourself and say what you want to say? I'm, I'm also a member of the Amherst community land trust. And I will just want to say that dues are $15 a year and anybody is welcome to join as long as they agree with the general concept. And you can go to the webpage and sign up. We do have a, at least I think two general meetings a year, Rob, right? That's right. Coming up on July 29. And then we have an annual membership meeting in, in December. And anybody's welcome to attend the board meetings, which have been all online so far. So I'm hoping we can up our membership. It seems like this is a perfect way to join forces here since you guys on the housing trust do a lot with rental properties and we deal with owner occupied properties. And we anyway, rental or home ownership. We're interested. We're interested in the whole continuum from unhoused all the way to owning your own home. So thank you. I think that's a great invitation for us to consider. I think the next person would like to speak is John. I just wanted to mention that there are two other mechanisms or organizations that assist people in reaching home ownership in Amherst. One is Valley Community Development, which has a home ownership program that is subsidized by Community Preservation Act funds. And in addition to that, Laura may speak about that later in this meeting. They have a development on ball lane, which is intended for people wishing to own their own home. The other organization is Habitat for Humanity. And while they haven't had an Amherst project recently. We know that they'd love to have an have an Amherst project if they had some land on which they could build, but they have historically built affordable homes in Amherst. Thank you, John, for adding to this. Anybody else from, thank you, Ashley, go ahead. Just, I just wanted to go over just a little bit of the economics and I, you know, I totally believe you but basically 80% of the area minimum income is about $64,000 for one person and it's about $90,000 for a family of four. And so those people should be spending approximately $160,000 on a house. And so there's no house like that. And that's I'm, you know, using your data. And so there's no house that is even twice or three times that. So the 80% AMI person is not living in Amherst. I mean, they're not recently living in Amherst. They, that person might have lived here for 30 years, but there's just no way for like someone making $64,000. So, like, look at home prices, or have a family of four at $90,000, and then want to live in Amherst. I mean, they can't. So, that's like the big economic picture of why the town is the way it is like, I think I just want to address that in general that people aren't buying homes here at 80% AMI in general. They're just they, there's, there's no $160,000 place to buy. So we're Amherst is not attracting that kind of person. Ever again, probably, I mean, in our lifetime, that person is living somewhere else. Right. But I think one of the things that you're proposing is thinking about that we might have to pull more monies together for subsidies to attract individuals and families to come into Amherst. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's it's hard because there's so many worthwhile projects. You know, I hate to say that that we deserve the money we don't deserve the money anymore than anyone else does. There needs to be money for all of these projects. Yeah, in order to get in order to find homeownership opportunities for people in the 60 to 80% or even 100% range. Yeah, there's going to have to be an infusion of money or donations of land or property. Grover has her hand a growth you have the groovy heavy hand up. Yeah, thanks. You know at that price point with the added extra 75,000 you gave there are a couple of apartments that I've seen listed that would fall within that but apartments that the whole building isn't in the land trust then won't work for this model. Correct. And in a building. Yeah, yeah, a condo eyes unit. The land trust model wouldn't work in that case, unless the entire apartment building. That's right to join the length. Yes. So it just makes me think. It's a possible strategy and this is used in Oakland increasingly over the last decade is. Shifting and. They're like having a. Didn't catch that. Land by an entire. We get a new rover. What makes me. You're breaking up a little bit. Can you hear me now. Yes. Yeah. So it just makes me think that as we think about development and things like that, thinking about the benefits of building apartment buildings as in relationship with the land trust model. So that one piece of land might. Four or five or 10 families right that are all then. Owners in the land trust and it's the unit that. Yeah, I like that. Would co housing be something that would also work. Yeah, I don't see why not cause the causing is a condo I think so. Yeah, I think Rover you raise a good point. We have to think about all the different configurations. I think the more, you know, tiny homes to condos to co housing to individual homes are some of the things that, you know, can also be strategies. Back to John's point, you know, with ball lane being an opportunity to develop affordable home ownership. You know, we have to look at it all to see where we can really provide different alternatives but Thank you, Rob. Let me make sure that no one else has wants to say anything. Okay. Thank you very well. I'm sorry more you still have your hand up. Did you want to add something. Yeah, I just want to say that with the were restricted to get to having homeowners that make 80% of am I if we're using funds like CPA or something like that. But for donated properties, the ceiling can be higher can be 100 or even 120,000 for. So that would help some of the problem Ashley that you were talking about giving it to those work workforce housing. If. Yeah, but that's public ones can't be used for that. Thank you more. Okay. Thank you very much Rob that contributes to all the different opportunities that we can look at as part of strategies that we might want to prioritize for the future so thank you so much. And can we have your slides will be okay if you sent us the slides and we'll include as part of the minutes. Thank you. Right Carol I'm going to turn it over to you. I'm going to turn it over to john, who has got some legislative suggestions for us so let's bring john in, and I also think that if I don't mess up I'm going to share his. The thing that he's going to talk about. Right there. Oops, I lost my whole self though. Here I can share it I have it ready. All right go ahead. I've lost the whole screen by trying. I did it before. Go for it. Okay you're on john. You're on mute john if you think you're speaking. We can't see you. Okay, can you hear me. Yes, see me. Sorry. Yes. Okay, so the biggest item that I have is still a little vague, but the governor is going to put forward a very large bond proposal, which is includes housing and other forms of economic development. Essentially, I should say that most of the, the state's budget is close to being settled. The legislature has yet to pass it and the governor has yet to sign it. But I think both the House and the Senate. Have their own separate budgets and it's a matter of the committees getting together and agreeing on what will be in the final budget. It sounds so simple but it's all supposed to happen by July one, and there have definitely been years that it doesn't happen by July one. Nonetheless, the bond proposal that the government is working on, and she has already offered a part of it happens somewhat outside the regular legislative budget. So the question is, why does that happen? Why do you need it? And how would Amherst benefit basically a bond bill is like any other kind of mortgage. The governor has decided in this case, let's say with respect to housing, that there's not enough in money in the state budget to pay for the development that's needed, given the huge shortage of housing in the state. So what can the governor do? Well, in this case, he can propose to basically spend a lot of money that the state doesn't have. That is, that is not part of current revenues or revenue is anticipated for the current state fiscal year. Basically, she's saying, I want to add a lot of money, and we're going to allow it to be spent within the next year or two. And then we're going to pay it off overall much longer period. But this will allow us to get a bigger jumpstart on meeting unmet needs for housing, then we're able to do, if we just rely on the regular budget process. And the governor filed what's called an emergency bill in January. And if you go towards the middle of my presentation, you'll see that basically there was $110 million that she asked for for a variety of purposes, all related to housing. The assumption is that she's going to come up with a larger bond proposal that exceeds $110 million to present to the legislature in the very near future. I don't think it's happened yet, but it's expected to happen in the near future. And the $110 million in context in the current state fiscal year that is FY 23 the year that's ending in July at the end of July, there was $884 million set aside for the Department of Housing and Community Development. Adding $110 million to that amount or whatever is actually in the budgets that are under consideration by the House and the Senate now is not a huge add. So my hope is that when we actually see the final bond bill that the governor proposes, and we also see what the legislature does with it. And hopefully the legislature would add on to it. It's going to be quite a bit larger than the $110 million that the governor proposed or included in her immediate needs and her January proposal to the legislature. Basically, we've been talking about the need for money. And by and large, when people think about the need for money, they expect it to come through the state budget process. Just go back up to the top again, please. Thanks, Nate. That's what they expect. And in fact, this is an unusual in state government. The governor has basically said, we really have a crisis in housing. And so we need to boost our budget, much higher than what it otherwise would be. And we're going to do that through a bond issue. So that's kind of the basic story. And we'll see what the governor actually proposes. And then what the advocacy groups urged the legislature to do on top of that. So the next question that I wanted to address is, how does Amherst benefit from this. Well, basically Amherst benefits when we put out an RFP, and we bring a developer in to develop a piece of property in the town that would be for some form of affordable housing. For example, we currently have a project getting going on East street and Belcher town road. It's a project for both sites combined. The project went to wayfinders, and I'm not quite sure exactly where wayfinders is in the process. But basically, they will apply to the Department of Housing Community Development for money in order to fund that project. And then we can add something like 70 plus units of housing, most of which would be affordable in Amherst of the site of the old East huge school and the Belcher town road site. So basically, when there's more money in the budget, it means Amherst can benefit if we have projects in the pipeline. So we have one project that should definitely benefit. They can tell me exactly where that project is in the pipeline. But I think it probably has a little ways to go before it's funded. By contrast, we have a project that is almost complete. And that's the one on Belcher town on route nine near the Amherst college athletic fields. And that's a project for Valley Community Development, where they are putting up 26 studio apartments that are for low income or very low income individuals. So that's a project that's already been in the pipeline. They got it funded by the Department of Housing and Community Development. And they've been working on it and they're very close to completing it. Laura will probably give us a better update than I'm offering right in a few minutes. So the point is, and the reason that we need to support the housing bond bill is because it represents a huge jump in additional money that should be available in the Commonwealth. We would trickle down to Amherst if we have new projects in the pipeline. So we need to do that. We need, for example, to get the VFW hall into the pipeline. So we have studio apartments as well as a location for a permanent shelter in downtown Amherst. And we need to think about getting other projects online that can take advantage of any money that's available. If we don't have those projects in the pipeline, then when this money shows up, unfortunately, we can't take advantage of it. I would also say that this money really is available for what I would say are larger projects, individual projects like the work that the Amherst Community Land Trust does are not eligible for this funding for better or for worse. I also have one thing to just mention here related to the alphabet soup of government. The Department of Housing Community Development has been split into two agencies. The agency that is now relevant, that is, that supervises housing development and gives out contracts and grants to developers is now called the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities, or EOHLC, which is a bit of a mouthful. But that's the new language, and that's the language that you may be hearing as people come up to speed with that. So this is an item that is not part of the main budget, but is important for us to be advocating for. Depending upon what we see and what we'd like to see in the governor's final bond bill that she proposes to the legislature. Okay, let me go down to the second page where I have two items that are changes in statute. John, can I just ask you, was there some particular ask about the first one that you want us to do right now or is this just information that we should pay attention to going forward? It's the latter really, Carol. Okay, go ahead. So, I'll try and bring back more information when I have it, but the bond business is a complicated business. And so I decided not to wait until we have more information, but to introduce it to this group today, and then hopefully come back with more information in a month or so when hopefully we've got the governor's further along and what she's proposing and we have some idea about the advocacy groups and other members of the legislature would like to see an additional funding. Great. Thank you. Go ahead. Okay. Here are two pieces of the legislation. They aren't new pieces of legislation. They've been around for a number of years and they've been reintroduced. The first one is promoting access to council. And that, as it says, is intended to provide legal representation for tenants and quote unquote owner occupants with low incomes in evictions proceedings. Basically, right now landlords have access to council, not necessarily all of them. The low income landlords may have the same problem as low income tenants, but that's a relatively rare occurrence, most of the time, when there's an eviction proceeding, the landlord shows up with council, and the tenant does not. So this is a basically a promise or would be a promise by the state to assist low income tenants and avoid evictions to the extent that that's possible. So that's one piece. And again, that's that's a current piece of legislation that's under consideration. The other one has to do with eviction ceiling. Basically what that means is when someone's evicted. That becomes part of their quote unquote permanent record. So, for example, if you've been evicted, and then you try to apply for some new housing. The landlord can look back and say, well, wait a second, you've been already evicted the last time you had housing, and I'm not going to offer you housing as a consequence. So, and that doesn't necessarily apply to the tenant alone. It can apply to anybody else who was living with the tenant who was named on the lease, including children. They may be children living with a parent, the parents evicted, but the eviction record can also attach to the children. Which means that when they come of age and they're looking to look for housing, they are obviously disadvantaged by having this eviction on their record. So ceiling basically means that the record of eviction is not available as to landlords or others in the public domain. And so it improves obviously then the chances that people are going to be able to find housing, because they're a new landlord won't say, oh, you've been evicted your poor risk for me. I'm not going to offer you this rental. So again, this is something that's been around for a while. And hopefully it will pass this time. I think it's something that is worth the legislature's considering. I think it's something they should act upon. That's my own judgment. So that's why I brought it here today. So those are my two additional pieces. I'm going to start with representation and eviction ceiling for people who are at risk of losing their apartments or their housing. And so would the ask of us here be that again, we write letters in support of these two things. They would go not only to our elected representatives, Andy Dom and Joe Hummerford, but also to the chairs of the right relevant committees, ideally to the Senate president and the other. And so they're aware of the fact that there is general support for these pieces, at least in Amherst and presumably other people will write into, because as I said, these aren't new pieces of legislation. They've been introduced and reintroduced. Probably, I'd say at least two or three times maybe more often over the last four or five years. So the question to us as a trust is, is there some kind of somebody want to is make a motion and then we can discuss it. Do we want to again, we did this before last time John brought things. Do we want to write letters, as he has suggested in and all that with all the right people in support of these two measures. I see a thumb. Up. Make a motion that we write a letter on behalf of the trust in support of these two bills. Grover from motion motion from Grover. And with that Erica. Yes, I second. So, is there some discussion about this. So many have any comment. Yeah, I'm, I'm fine with, you know, more money coming into the pot. That's absolutely fine. I just want to give one example is that I do, I live in North Square. Apartments, which has 20% affordable housing, and each unit is costing $500,000 to make. So it's like, that's a million dollar for a million dollars you get to units. And so it's good to have more money coming into the pot. It's that working with developers. Amherst town worked with beacon properties to create 20% affordable housing in North Square apartments. It's costing millions upon millions upon millions just to get two units or, you know, 26 units. If we don't do something about the cost of developers, we're not getting very far. I want, I want more money coming in, but I really want to think about who we're working with and where the money is going because beacon properties is a multi billion dollar, probably, you know, developer wayfinders, maybe not CDC maybe not but they are still costing us so much to get 1020 units. If we don't bring the hospital and we're not getting much. So I'm going to, I would like to not continue that conversation if there are comments about the proposal that's on the floor right this minute. We can come back to that later but I would like to finish the conversation about the proposal on the floor just to support these two things with a letter if someone wants to speak to that. Please speak. Hi. Yeah, so I support this, I would just as a matter of process. I do better when I have some time to read the legislation and really dig in and consider and do the research and understand what, you know, all of the ramifications of things. So it would be great to have some of these ahead of time to read and then we could, you know, have a conversation about it at these meetings but I struggle when we approve things on the spot and I don't feel like I always have full information this seems like a really straightforward, you know, I support both of them I'm happy to vote yes on all of them but as a process I make that request. Thank you very much we should we are trying to work at having that happen better, and we'll continue to do that that's a very good suggestion from from my point of view to so. Is there any other commentary. In that case, is there do I have to vote by I will just go around and vote so. Erica. Yes. Carol, yes, Ashley. You're muted. Yes. Okay, Grover. Yes. Allegra. Yes. Rob. Yes. Risha. Yes. Okay. So we have. I think that that means we are done with that particular item. On our agenda. Thank John for his service and look forward to what we hear from you next about the bond bill. Thanks for your, your good work. And move on to the thing on our agenda which is called the discussion of trust priorities and a possible second CRC meeting. Which I'm hoping will be kind of. It seems to me, it seems to Erica and I, but I'm going to say this. In thinking about this, that the way we would like to look at our priorities is to actually engage with ourselves in some kind of strategic planning process that is more than a. Two hour meeting that is an actual opportunity where we all get together. On zoom or not, we can decide that they're all kinds of difficult things like that that would need to be decided. But we look back at our previous. Strategic plan. We look at all the things that are already in place in town about what in the world we're trying to do. What the trust decided it was going to do to build. 250 more units a while ago. How many of those have we built. We would like and and all the information that we just gathered from the listening session. We would like to have the opportunity to really think about all of that and come up with a have a better process for trying to decide what we want our priorities to be. As the way that as the way that we get into a conversation about priorities. That's our. Suggestion anyway and so I'd like to open the floor for comments and talks. Legra. So, I guess kind of going off what Risha had just said, I think it's an important conversation to have but I think there needs to be the padding to have it. And I think part of that padding is the. The report from the listening session so I don't know if we're just having a discussion about having a discussion tonight, because I don't think that the actual discussion could be had. Yes, I agree. If I if I didn't say. I was suggesting that we need, it's a bigger than we can do in just having a discussion right now. We need to have those materials. We need to have a chance to look at them beforehand. And I would prefer that we have like half a day or something that we have set aside for ourselves to try to really think about this stuff. But in person or zoom we can decide. But I think it's not something that we can do in one of these meetings it just always gets squinched and not. And so I agree with you we need stuff that we don't have right now. This is a proposal to plan to do a good job of it. That's what we're kind of the leg or I mean Erica and I having talked about it would like to do that. And are right now entertaining comments and whether people think it's a good idea or what anybody wants to say. Yes, so I think that would be a good idea just what how you packaged it I was like, I don't want to have that discussion tonight we have a very full agenda. I'm with you absolutely yes. Right. Um, so anybody else. Any other trust I see Nate has his hand up but let's see that what do we keep calling you Nate today I knew somebody named Nate wants. Anyway, does anyone else on the trust have a have a comment or, or else I will ask that. I was just going to say, we have met with the CRC, we have so much information from the listening session, and we all have very I think a range of opinions of what our priorities should be. It will be very important to spend, as Carol said, at least three hours together, not only to look at all the different alternatives, but then we have to whittle down what we agree as priorities, and maybe priorities and your two priorities in your three, and that's going to take time and it's going to take a facilitated to help us through that. So I absolutely agree with you Carol let's think about planning it. I was going to kind of say what Erica said I think you know we can get all the documents and resources together. And, you know, I think if it would be over a series of a few meetings and we could have someone we could have a consultant help I mean this is really formulating another strategic plan but you know we could talk about you know getting resources and documents we can post them online. It could be available to everyone and then it's like you know having the trust members, maybe get their own ideas, but you know having, you know it could be that you know we have a series of meetings, every other week, or three meetings in one month, and it's dedicated to, to this topic, and we could hire someone to help facilitate that, and I think it would be your first kind of gathering everything. Maybe even talking to the CRC again or the, you know the co chairs could just to determine. Okay, here's what we're, you know what we're thinking. There are a number of documents and ideas but I think. Yeah, I, you know, and could be like short, long term medium goals, things that we can advocate for so I mean I was going to say, you know what I heard during the listening session and as I've talked to different staff about it is. There's, you know there's no central application for housing. And, you know that's not something that trust can solve but is that a bucket and advocacy or something else do we work with way finders or RAA is to come up with a better system so someone could submit one application like a common core application or whatever it is for college but you know have it for housing and streamline it because it just seems crazy. That it's so repetitive and redundant and time can something but you know those are the things that could become ideas or we talk about and then we figure out how do we organize them thematically and by time range but I do think in the trust has funding to hire someone to do this we had. Jennifer Goulson wrote the first strategic plan and for instance, someone like her or Pioneer Valley Planning Commission could come and help the trust over a series of a few meetings that wouldn't necessarily be a large contract for them and they could really help shape the discussion so. If we don't talk about it tonight I think at the next meeting we could say okay, do we reach out to a few just to get ideas for what that, what the cost is and what it would look like. Risha. Sorry, I struggled with the buttons. And now I have lost what I was going to say. Can you come back to me. Come back to you later. Yeah, that's okay. When you're ready to talk. Maybe it's just talk because I don't know how to know when to come back. Is there someone, so I've just heard from Nate, a slightly different suggestion having multiple meetings, instead of having just one meeting and I can think there might be things that would be an advantage to that too. I think maybe what we need tonight is an agreement that we want to do this in some way. And a couple of people who are willing to try to do a little put a little more into planning, trying to see who, who we could get to help us as needed suggestion, and putting a little more effort into figuring out what it might look like and bring that back to us. That's what seems to me like it might be a good thing to come out of now and Risha, do you know what you want to say. Thank you. I wanted to ask what the implications are around open meeting laws for this. How, how do we engage people in the process are we allowed to meet for three hours. I presume that because of the open meeting law it will be an open meeting. I mean that we will have to let the public know about it. If people want to come they will be able to come it will work just like this, except that it will be, except it will be about the open meeting law and we will probably entertain hearing from people if they have things to say, as we do with this, Nate correct me if I'm getting something wrong but it will be subject to the open meeting law and we will have to make the public be welcome in whatever way that we do it. Thanks. Anything else. This might be, you know, part of the talk but you know how there's 849, you know, affordable use affordable housing units in all of Amherst. I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of how many that are section eight how many are 80% am I how many are 50% am I. It would be good to have that information to know that there may be a very, very, very small amount that is less than 30% am I and section eight. And so that needs to be called attention to we just we don't have a lot of information about those 849 housing housing units that are affordable to make a decision about what is needed. We don't have the breakdown of what, what's already been done. That's a good, that's something yes to try to get I know that Nate and George were. We have a beginning of a list they were trying to put more columns on it. So I believe that there's some work which may be kind of a little stalled right now given other things that are going on but yes that would be great information to get I agree I agree that makes makes a lot of sense. Other comments. Well then can we get at least a sense of is this is this a good idea, a bad idea, a idea. If somebody Risha doesn't have her picture on so you can just say yes no or something I don't know. All right well look like we have some interest in going forward with this. And I'm willing to try to think about it some more and work on bringing something back. And if there is there's someone or ones who would join me in that. Maybe Erica at least. It's certainly. Yeah, absolutely. There's anybody else who wants it who wants to join us I'm sure we're gonna have at least three people talk about planning to do something together so. If there's anybody else who wants to speak now or, or decide later or whatever so anyway we'll bring something Ashley. It's just that. So this is separate from us meeting with the CRC first right this is not. Because we need that meeting probably first to actually ask for and then actually get the information that we're going to need to have these meetings anyway because it's you know we've been waiting a long time for what's going on with these 849 units, we don't know. I don't know that there's something I don't know that there's something we need to meet with CRC about before we can do this it seems to me that there's information that we have that we can gather that we can ask for I don't think we. I don't see us needing a meeting with them before we try to figure out more about what our priorities are. In that context and in the light of the things that the housing, what is the name of it the housing thing that they that we looked at with them that is there that's the town adopted as its housing policy in that context. Well, I would, I guess I would like that information before we meet to think about our priorities because that will, that will like inform what our priorities are. But I but we have that or we have had it and we can and we will bring it to this we have it and we will have it and we will bring it. We have that already. We met with the CRC I'll send a link out to their packet it was. May break it down that did not break. May 18, and there's six or seven documents in there in the packet with links to the other documents right so we have the town's conference of housing policy we have the trust strategic plan there's a number of documents I think. And the trust members need to look at, and then come, you know, prepare to discuss and have additional questions and so, you know, to me that's the starting point. You know what are the other resources we need what are the questions we have, and where we go from there. I can send a link to that to their, to those documents. Yeah, that doesn't answer the question of how many 30. No, no, but it but meeting with them isn't going to answer it either. That's something that needs to be worked on but it's separate from all from the other things that we're we're trying to get to go. Erica. I'm just going to clarify exactly what Ashley is asking for is data and deep dive Dave data in order for us to then go from data to action so I just wanted to clarify she wasn't asking about the comprehensive housing plan. She's asking about the data. Okay, I just tend to think it helps to have the CRC ask for it because when we ask for it. We don't get. Maybe whatever whoever needs to ask for it that is effective in getting that broken down of the 894 units by what kind of unit they are whatever works works. But we need that. Okay, go forward. Anything else that someone thinks we need or should have or whatever. Then I am going to continue to will continue to work on this bring something back next time and yes we know that we need data as Ashley and Erica have said. So, I just want to put my hand in. I would be happy to join you and Erica and planning in the meetings to plan the meeting. Great. Thank you so much. All right, we will be in touch. Um, okay, so in now, I think we are ready to move on to Erica who is going to have us vote on our chairs or whatever. Yes, so at the last meeting, we've actually raised this at two different meetings one just introducing it I believe in May, where we agreed that we should annually vote in the chair or co chair. And what we agreed on in June is that we would think about it and that we would then vote today. So I'm asking if anyone would like to step forward to be the chair for the coming year. Starting with August starting with August all the way to next July so full year. If there would be anybody who would like to step up a step forward.  Oh, I, they seem wiggly to me but no one is wiggling in the direction of saying I volunteer. I could clarify that I think I'm, I'm willing to do this for another year provided Erica will do it with me. If anyone steps forward then I'm willing to do it with you as co chair. I'm not seeing any hands up, but my whole screens frozen so please. If, if you want to step forward or if you want to say something just, just go ahead. Just want to give a few more minutes. I nominate Carol, Carol and Erica to be co shares. Okay, so we've had one nomination. Nomination. Okay, I think it was Allegra. Thank you, Allegra. Okay, so should we have a vote. I'm going to go ahead and ask for a vote. So Ashley. That's fine. Risha. Yes. Grover. Yes. Yes. Yes. Carol. Yes. And I say yes. Thank you very much. And both Carol and I sometimes we can't respond in an email, but we read every single email you guys send us. So please continue to do so what you raise is so important. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and say yes to this meeting just to make sure we're in compliance with open meeting loss. So don't think that if we don't respond, it's not that we are not paying attention to it or we're not reading it. We read everything and your feedback and your participation is so important in terms of the success of our work here. So we want to thank you and we want to thank you for your support. So back to you. Carol. I think it's a good report. I think, right? So I think that if Nate can put it up on his screen as financial report won't take very long because not very much. It's happened to the finances recently, but let's look at it anyway. Oh, which, oh, I made my screen so it's tiny. So. How visible is that if that's, I don't know if that's eligible to. To me, it's visible. Okay. Anybody else? Yep. So I don't know. I mean, what I noticed about it was that all of the real most of the numbers are exactly the same as they were, except for we made a little interest and we spent a little bit of money on maintenance for Belcher Town Road. And so Nate, do you have what else do you want to say? Yeah, no, there hasn't been much change. You know, I do anticipate that Valley CDC was, you know, considering requesting funding from the trust for the ball lane project. The way finders may also come in request funding.  And so, you know, I think the idea of continuing to try to capitalize the trust through CPA or other funding mechanisms is important. I mean, I don't think it's as expensive as, you know, it's, we could try to say we're going to get the cost of housing down but that's a really, that's a, that's a really big, you know, complex issue, not just related to affordable housing but construction and development in general. So, yeah, I mean, I don't have any, any, any sort of comments I mean I will say that, you know, CPA account, the ones that have CPA behind them or after them. Unless they're just development funds, which is the last account line, the other two technical services and consulting services, you know, sometimes the trust has requested funds for a specific thing. So, you know, consulting services would be if we wanted to hire someone to help with a strategic plan if we wanted to hire someone to do wetlands or property assessments. I mean it can be pre development funding development funds are kind of just general, you know the trust has them could use them for a number of purposes. The one caveat is it has to meet the income guidelines in the CPA, which is 100% of am I so there's some flexibility there but we couldn't use CPA funding necessarily to do, you know, something that wouldn't follow those regulations, unless you can somehow justify that it was supporting the poor affordable housing right so you know the trust could own market rate housing and then take the rent from, say, rental income and then somehow subsidize housing could get complicated but anyways I don't think we're in danger of that but you know most of the money is in the CPA there is one non CPA account, and that was donations and some carryovers from previous accounts. And so the trust can also get accept donations or other things interfaith housing provided funding and so the trust if there's ever capital campaigns or other funding that came in it would go into this unrestricted account. And so we separate, you know, each account by by source and so, yes, that's kind of it. I have two questions. One is, I assume that the most recent CPA award because it's for some time in the future that $250,000 isn't here. Yeah. I can't remember if it's. I can't remember 2024 or something the one that we just had approved. Yeah, I, you know, I can't, you know when I did this, they may have already put it in because of the previously it looked like there was this odd balance when we looked at it in March and I think it was because they had input the CPA money into the development fund account so. But it says it was there in March. It says it's the same now. Could you just clarify that and let me know or let us know please because that seemed like an important thing to know. Yeah, yeah, so the, you know, so the trust is receiving money and F by 24, which started July one, the council voted it, you know, months ago, but the funding actually isn't available until July one. And so, yeah, I'll see I mean this this was done in June so it may not have been there so there could be another, you know, a few hundred thou, you know, 200,000 or whatever it is in the. 250 I think it was anyway that would be good to know if it's already here then that makes it. This looks, you know, I have been assuming that there's $250,000 is not in here yet so please let us know whether that's correct. And my other question is which one of these things if we decide to hire someone to help us with this planning process, which one of these lines can that come out of. I mean, I could, I think it could be technical services or consulting services. Okay. I mean, or the unrestricted account, but I think. Okay. Okay. Erica has her hand up. Yes. Yeah, and I actually think it should come out of consulting because that's a pretty big line right there. But anyways, my question is much more is that we had voted on providing funds for the listening session I just want to make sure that we honor paying whoever. I know Liz Haygood provided a lot of resources and I know Allegra worked very, very hard with UMass and the UMass interpreters came and they actually participated. So I just want to make sure that we get the money ASAP. Yeah, submit an invoice. If they submit an invoice, we can work on that. I'm working on to get reimbursements for for Liz or people who paid and then with receipts is a little process with accounting. And it was our fiscal year and as of, you know, June 30, so it's been really busy but those are in process to get those taken care of. Sorry, my last comment is that we should really be careful about using unrestricted funds because that's the place that we have the most flexibility. Yeah. Allegra, were you trying to say something or maybe you said it already. I just wanted to clarify because I believe that I'd sent invoices in but if if me hasn't received them I will just make sure I send them again ASAP so that that can get processed. So was that from UMass? It should have been it should be like UMass Translation Services Translation Center. I'm pretty sure they sent it like the day after the event so I can just send it to you again. I'll just do that. I'm looking right now. Okay. Thank you for your presentation that following week so may have been that I missed them, but I'll look. Okay, any other comments or concerns or anything about the financial report? Hello. Yes, Ashley. So instead of having $703,000 just sitting in an account, could we consider helping people with this money like individual people that don't have their first, last and deposit, people that won the lottery of having affordable housing in Amherst, et cetera. Could we spend money to help people with this money? I think that this, I think it's supposed to be for development that the CPA, the whole giant CPA line anyway, is for development of affordable housing. What about what about the flexible money? Thank you, Ashley. So I think, yeah, CPA funds can be used for rental assistance or other things and the trust had done that during the pandemic. I think we do, I would just be, you know, I think that's a bigger discussion for the trust. So, you know, if you provide first, last security for someone, you might be providing seven to $10,000. And then, you know, what's the, what's the, what's the upshot of that? Is it permanent affordability? Is it temporary affordability? And I think it's a really big discussion because you could eat through a lot of money really fast and not have any permanent affordable units. And so the CPA is already doing that. They're giving funding to Amherst Community Connections to do rental subsidy. We provide funding with block grant to family outreach and other organizations to do that. The town's using ARPA funds to do that right now. And so I think the trust could do that. And we have done that twice in the past, but you can go through a lot of money really fast. And so I think, you know, sometimes you limit it. You have to also be careful with the anti-aid amendment with government funds going to individuals. And so it has to have certain purposes. But I think that is a program the trust has talked about. So could it be another local voucher or subsidy program? Could it be an emergency rental assistance or utility shutoff program? It could be, let's give money to individuals who need it. I mean, it could be rental assistance, but it also could be to Craig's door community action. It would be using money to help people not just sit in an account. And that's personally why I'm here because I would like to help people get into affordable housing that is almost nil, needs a lottery, and also sometimes takes $3,000 just to move in. I think we should consider helping people when we can. I think that's one of the things that we can put into our discussion of what our priorities are when we had it. We'll see how that, see how that goes. Yeah, no, I agree. For instance, Valley has already said that they would request 250,000 from the trust for Ball Lane. And so, you know, that's 250,000 for 30 affordable homeownership units and perpetuity or for say 30 years or something. And so, you know, if they, you know, and if wayfinders wants another 250,000, there's not a lot left in the development funds. And perhaps the, the result is that, you know, with wayfinders, there might be 45 affordable units at a range of income levels for in perpetuity so you with $200,000 you've secured 45 units for a very long time. So those are really important discussions to have with the trust, you know, how do we, how do you spend the money and so the trust had developed actually a kind of a funding guideline it wasn't it's old but I think I can. Let me make a note to myself I can send that around to the trust to to have as part of the discussion in terms of priorities what. Thank you. Yeah. So we do have, I mean, there's a, so all the funds are actually legal to give Craig's door community action, etc, etc, or there's how much money do we have that is potential to like help people directly, whether it's a rental. assistance, Craig's door community action, whoever we give the money to how much money do we have that is potential to do that relatively, you know, quickly so they can help individuals. I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. So maybe Nate and as Nate is that some things some of the CPA money has different restrictions on it. Some of that there's the rule about not giving money to individuals so maybe we could give it to organizations to do something with it's not what we've done before and it's amongst our thoughts about what our priorities are to figure out the difference between that kind of help like to Craig's door or something and what Nate was just talking about about using the money to create affordable units that will be affordable for a long time. So it's, it's, it's definitely at least the conversation about priorities. And in there, we should make sure that we know exactly which bits of money are available to use for what but it's a priority issue. It's, it's priorities also so I would like to move on if anybody else have anything to say about from looking at the finances. Please raise your hand. Okay, then. I'm going to I'm going to move on to the next thing which people have brought up this is a discussion of whether we should continue to do meetings like this by zoom, or whether we should consider going back to meeting in person for for these regular meetings that we're having. And my understanding from Paul is that we can do that but we, we can't, it can't be a hybrid meeting. We are either on zoom, or we are in a room at town hall or somewhere in person. We can't mix and match those two things that has to be one or the other. And it is also advised that if we switch to doing it in person. We should just continue to do it in person that going back and forth between zoom and in person is doesn't give the public the, the, it makes the expectation of what's going to happen this time to complicated. So, we should either continue to do this, or we should decide to meet in person. So, and unless we decide to meet in person I will assume that we're continuing to do this. So, if someone wants to propose that we should start meeting in person. Now is the time to speak. I think that it would be very important, particularly to do the strategic planning meetings in person, because that's kind of sets the tone for the whole year, and that's like kind of the most important part to be committed to in person. And then, whatever Paul says, we can do whatever we want. So we could do, we can go back to zoom at some point, if we want to, but if it's allowed to do either, we can just figure it out meeting per meeting but particularly the strategic ones. Whatever succession of meetings that is, I propose, we do that in person, at least. So that's, that's, that's proposing that strategic planning part of things be done in person. Regardless of what happens with these regular monthly meetings, is there a second or a discussion or something else. Risha. I'm really torn on this one. And I'm wondering if there's so I joined after things had already gone online I've never been to an in person meeting. Is there a difference in participation from the community between before and after like on zoom or in person. That's a good question. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, the, I think zoom is a lot more accessible to the community and so right now we might have six attendees usually we sometimes we have, I think, probably an average 10 to 12 a 10, you know, a watch while we're live on zoom and then, you know, the meetings get posted every Friday online and then. So sometimes I look at trust meetings and there's 50 views for a meeting you know I don't know if that means someone watches the whole thing or they just open the link but at least someone has open the link and so I will often have questions or comments after meetings with people, you know watching so I do think that that's a really big consideration right so we sometimes have representative Dom, or you know Laura Bakers here for instance tonight and so if we were meeting in person in the town room, it puts them out a lot to try to come to a meeting. You know and then we wouldn't have any recordings, so all we'd have would be minutes and so there would be no video or audio recordings would just be minutes and so. I mean I think the planning board is having a few special meetings to do kind of some visioning and so along the lines what Ashley said, you know maybe the strategic plannings in person. We, you know, I think in if we're going to hire a consultant we may want to ask them if how they would work is it better for them to be in person or remote but I think remote meetings offer some flexibility for a lot of people. I'll be honest if we're meeting in person every month I will miss a number of meetings just because I have a lot of things going on in my personal life and other work life so I usually have two night meetings a week sometimes three. And so, to go back to being in person is a is a lot so you know we'd also have to do paper copies of all the packets. We still put it online but you know it only be available to ever comes and so the planning board actually had an in person meeting to in person meetings this summer and I will say for one of them one person came. And the other one two people attended. It was hybrid but most of the people still prefer to attend over zoom so even though it was in person in the town room. All the attendees are still over zoom. I mean, I don't know it's just you come to a three hour meeting in the town room or can you enjoy it at home and then provide comment when you need to. Yeah, sorry I'll jump in again but I, I completely, you know, recognize how much easier it is for us to attend. I have a kid in the background I mean that you know I would have to have childcare and all of those things but I also think that we've seen some of the downsides of not getting together in person and so trying to figure out how to balance that and I presume that Paul's recommendation is based on the fact that it confuses people. If, meaning don't go back and forth often because people will. I mean I have certainly been on other board meetings where people thought it was the other and they went to the place in person and it was zoom or vice versa, you know and so it can get confusing to do it too often different but there's something in between where it's like a quarterly or every six months we do an in person because it feels like this might have been too long without us ever actually, you know, meeting. Yeah. Anybody else who haven't said anything have a comment to make. Um, I. Sir, I, you know, had the option on the table been hybrid I would have definitely voted for that because I think people can be in person or people can be not in person and that then they can choose what works for them but I think. I think that having the recordings especially is something that I hadn't thought of and I think that's super important. It's interesting because in another committee I'm on there have, you know, there has been talk about how detailed do we make the minutes. Oh well we can get the transcript of the zoom call. So, you know, we can, you know, hit the bullet points but really if anyone wants to go back they can look at the recordings or they can get the transcript of the zoom call so I think that having like the recording is really important I didn't think of that part of it. I do also think in terms of accessibility there are pluses and minuses like I am also am here, you know, at 657 I was reading a bedtime story and at seven o'clock I was here and that would not be the case if I had to hop in my car and so I think, I think for me it would be, it's more convenient to me remotely but it's also, you know, I do think that, you know, kind of as Asha said we're like, these are people that we're impacting by our decision making and like we all are a group of humans and it's weird to just talk at a screen sometimes but I do also think the consistency is key whether it's here this way or in person. So, yeah, I mean I think I would lean towards staying remote for a little bit longer but I do think that like the strategic planning should be in person I think that would be, you know, an important meeting to meet for. Grover. I just echo what Ashley and Allegra said. Can you speak up a little. Yes, I echo what Ashley and Allegra said and I think if we keep our regular meetings are Thursday meetings on zoom. But, you know, meeting you all a couple weeks ago, or most of you in person for the conversation was great and can we, I don't think it's that confusing to be like our planning process and special events are in person and our regular meetings are monthly meetings online that that would be my preference. I think that I have heard no one suggests that we should change our regular meetings to in person and so I think that this issue isn't a longer an issue. I'm going to raise it because I've heard a lot of people talking about it so I thought we should make a decision since we can now. I believe that I'm correct in saying that we have decided that our regular meetings will continue to be on zoom, and we will do a strategic planning thing that will be in person and we may do other things in person. We will decide as we come up to them, but what we are going to keep doing right now is these meetings will be on zoom. I'm going to correct my assessment of what we're agreeing. Yes, but Nate has the hand up. Okay. In that case, I think that I get to turn it over to Erica, I guess I would like to ask one thing first since I was supposed to be only at like 845 or something I think that it may take us until 915 tonight, perhaps if people can do that. That would be great. Erica. Nate still has his hand up. Oh, sorry. Oh yeah, I was gonna say that you know we could have the trust get together or trust members get together. As long as you don't talk about trust business you can get together in person so you know, the concern would be that all of a sudden people start talking about housing, but it's like you could. Trust members could say like, let's go meet at Kendrick Park and just spend an hour talking together or whatever it's, you know, it doesn't it's not doesn't it won't be a posted meeting and you know so I, I don't want people to be afraid to talk to one another outside of a meeting. We just can't be, you know, start talking about things we normally talk about here and it can happen. So I think we can get out there and I do think that, you know, if we wanted to meet say, right three times a year in person. It could be either a special meeting or we could just post it as a meeting. It doesn't it can be pretty light on the topics it could just be. I don't say I get together but it could be something where maybe it's like three times a year we have check in and it's strategic planning but it's talking about where we are goals and other things. And it's a simple agenda but it, you know, anyways, it could be something that helps facilitate discussion with amongst trust members it doesn't have to be like hitting seven topics or eight topics it could be you know, a one topic agenda. And that's it. So I'm going to go ahead and move because it's 855 and I'm sure some people may have to leave. So, since Laura Baker is here, maybe Carol, do you want to invite Laura just to give an update on East Gables and ball lane. You want to say something. Here you are. We won. How are you. Yes, we can we are well thank you. I am, I shouldn't speak to anybody else. You know, here I am. So yes, I would love to give updates. I also was curious, because I talked with Carol at one point about the trust coming for a sneak peek tour at East Gables but then I didn't hear a time. But we are approaching 90% completion at East Gables. We had scary setback with switch gear which is electrical stuff, but we've worked around it. We're anticipating completion around September 20, and that folks could move in very end of September or more likely in October. So we will be wanting to showcase the property as much as we can between the time that it's mostly done and when it's occupied. We had the lottery. It took place on June 21. And one applications for the, it's 28 studios but two are closed referrals from the department of mental health so it's really 26 studios available to people who enter the lottery. I did. We're doing a data breakout of who applied that I will share with the trust. And I will tell you it is interesting and stark both, I think 280 of the applicants were unhoused. About almost 400 of them were in that 30% am I the lowest income category like Ashley was, I think referring to is that there's this pressure point, you know, well it's bad all over. And some of the parts of our housing system there are just under tremendous duress and off the lowest level, and it's also about 20% of the applicants I think that the local preference requirement so it's really interesting data. And I think, again, we'll just put it into a prettier format and I will share it around with you and with other stakeholders who I think might be interested in seeing it. You know, we always want to have plenty of people to move in. You know, it's, it's very sobering, honestly, to have that many applicants. Really. It's, it's anyway. And then of ball lane, we're chipping away, we did get the project eligibility letter which will allow us to request the comp permit. And I think just as anticipating maybe August that that comp permit will go in, and we'll keep you updated on that because we will look for people to hopefully be supportive in various ways with a letter or showing up a public hearings with the board of appeals. I think two things about ball lane, we've done really good community outreach, and it's not as probably controversial as East Gables was so it's not that we won't have people with concerns but it may not be the full press court that we saw at at East Gables on North Hampton Road. I'm happy to take questions and I'm happy to plan a time if you folks want to come and tour. I think we definitely will I we definitely want to come for a tour and I think that I'm not the only person. So yeah, we would try to like, we would definitely like to work. I haven't seen lots of thumbs. We would, we would like to work that out with you. Yeah. But I could I ask Laura question. Okay, Ashley. Go ahead. Laura, Laura, would you be able to figure out like the, well, you know, the rents of each of the 28 apartments and then how much it costs each person to move in and to that apartment. Would you, would that be a fairly easy just Excel or, you know, so that we could know what the burden of each person is. We for sure know what the rents are. So 12 of the apartments of the 28 will have a project based rental subsidy, which means that the individuals rent will be approximately 30% of their income. And typically if you have to pay security deposit and first month, for example, it's your portion. It's not the whole rent. Okay, if the market rate rent is in our case, I think the market rate rent for a studio is around, I think it's $818. If you have a voucher and your portion is $250, that's the part that would be multiplied for you to move in, but I can I'm happy to get more specifics for you. And we are our property management team is very skilled at helping people find the cash to move in. I think we do not turn people away because they don't have enough money for their, you know, I don't think we charge last month. We just charge security deposit in first months. And if someone doesn't have that, we know the resources where they can apply to get it. Okay, great. Yeah, I'd like, I'd love to see that kind of broken down because we don't have that for 849. It's a huge barrier in the market rate sector for people and maybe in some other types of, you know, affordable housing. We work really hard to not have that be the reason that someone can't move in. That's great. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll be, we'll be in touch about a time. Yeah, we'll find a time you said between September 20th and October or something is that or sooner than that one do you guys can come anytime you can review. So you are VIPs to us. So what I've said is it's best to plan something around three in the afternoon. We try to hit the end of the day when the workers are slowing down. We want to get in their way. And we can get civilians like yourselves onto the site safely, but it's still daylight. That's good. All right, we'll find a time. Okay, you guys let me know. Find a time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Great. Thank you. Thanks so much, Laura. So we're at 902. So if maybe Nate, can you give us a real quick update on the housing coordinator position as well as anything that we should know around a responsibility of landlords for following rental laws. I'll pick up the ladder and then I think I know Dave has his hand raised and he was going to speak to a few things. Sorry, thank you.  So I know sometimes there's questions about that.  Right. So we don't go around asking them their renewal process for leases. So it's actually really complicated. And so when I attended a workshop put on my community legal aid, it made me think that we need, you know, like 100 more attorneys, unfortunately, in this area to help people because it's like every type of housing situation could be different depending on your subsidy or what kind of lease you're in. Are you in month to month? Are you in a year, you know, whatever. And so, you know, if there are complaints, we'll look into it or help facilitate but, you know, I mean the assumption is yes, right.  The town really isn't meant to be an advocate. We can help facilitate. I can call landlords on people's behalf. I won't use names. But, you know, typically we don't get into the details. I don't need to know someone's income or things like that, but we can help, you know, facilitate a discussion. I do a few property managers recently and I said that I think tenants are actually reluctant to call owners or property managers. And I said, even if that could be the first stop. So they often call the town. And so I don't mind, you know, I don't mind being that that conduit.  I mean, you know, people will be pretty vocal if they think something's wrong. Do we want to bring Dave in or can you speak to the housing coordinator position. I think Dave was going to speak to that and a few more updates so I can allow, we can bring them in as a panelist. Thank you. Dave, you have the floor. Good evening everybody can you hear me. Yes. Thank you. Now it's been an interesting meeting listening to you all good discussions. I do apologize I had hoped that we might get on earlier in the evening and I have a family commitment coming up here in a couple of minutes. So I don't think we'll be able to go through that whole list I'm happy to come back and maybe we could front load some of these town updates earlier in your next meeting. I don't have that date in my head right now but I'm happy to come back and spend some time with you. I think, you know, the list of updates that was on the agenda is is a good update and I, Nate and I talked with the co chairs about coming monthly, and I'm happy to come monthly and give you all an update on where we are with various projects on that list. In terms of the recruitment for the housing planner, our goal I think we work through with Carol and Erica some issues related to number of hours and you know what we wanted to, to offer this position and we're working with our HR department now. I expect to have somebody on board I would think within 35 to 40 days. Our department has been short staffed for quite some time here in town but we're back up to full, full, full staffing so that's great and we have a number of vacant positions in town including the housing planner so we should have that position I hope filled by late summer. And I'm happy to give other more thorough updates on VFW and some other potential projects. I was listening to John earlier talk about things in the pipeline and we could talk about some of the other projects that we hope to have in the pipeline. So the next meeting is August 10 and we can put you up further up in the agenda. That's fine and I am in town on August 10. Thank you. And as Dave alluded, we actually had our first meeting with Dave and Nate, and we will have a meeting a week prior to our meeting here and make sure that we let Dave and Nate know all the different topics that we would like for them to speak to. So they can be prepared to answer questions as well as give an update on all the different topics that we have on our agenda or any other topics. Yeah, and specifically on on any of those projects that were on tonight's agenda, if, if trust members have questions, please get them to the co chairs and that way Nate and I can be prepared for your questions or better prepare for your questions on August 10. Thank you. I'm sorry, go ahead. Okay, the last town update item was the vacancy and what Paul Paul was not able to be here this evening, what he has told Carol and I that it's in process. Hopefully we will have an update from Paul soon on the vacancy. I think it'd be important to have the vacancy filled before we start our strategic planning so we have a full board. And we are all on the same page in working together to identify priorities. Erica, I have one or two more minutes. Can I give a quick W update. Oh, absolutely. So very quickly. So you all know that the town took ownership of the VFW, our facilities director, Jeremiah Lapland and our building commissioner are working on next steps with with native myself on that property. Next steps include, we are cleaning out the building the building was in difficult shape I would say we bought it as is the VFW representatives and leadership took out what they wanted to from a historic value point and also from the perspective of veterans from the community. And now we are clearing out the building, we are doing an environmental assessment of the building. Before you demo a building you need to to understand what is in the building so that the demo contract can go out, ie asbestos anything else like that. So after that our next step would be to contract for put out a bid to demolish the building. I think that's on the order of about $100,000 we have ARPA funds to do that. We're also moving toward a meeting or a series of meetings that the trust would would hopefully be a part of it if you're willing I trust I trust you would be in the fall where we would call together stakeholders to talk about kind of visioning for what that shelter kind of housing project would look like. I've spoken with the executive director of Craig's doors. I know I've spoken to Carol and Erica about the trust being part of that and we would open up that that discussion to the community. What we hope to do is that would inform kind of a design element a design charrette if you will we would bring on an architect to do some rendering some modeling of what could go on the site. What would the site hold in terms of the size of the building the square footage the height of the building, and we could get some renderings done of what that might look like. And that would be informed by the community charrette that we would hold in the fall. Let me see Nate jump in. We're also beginning to that charrette and working with an architect would begin to formulate a rough budget for the project. I know speaking with Rob more my you know early indications are this is probably a again, seven to maybe $14 million project again those are really rough early numbers but some millions of dollars to make this happen. We also hope to do a field trip down to father bills and Quincy a similar project that's was was created down in Quincy where where they have a shelter with supportive housing permanent supportive housing and also wrap around services and other services provided for those folks utilizing the shelter. So McCarthy has been very supportive and wants to be part of this process of course with breaks doors and I'm sure the big other folks. So that's kind of the update on the VFW. You'll see the building come down hopefully later this summer, and then we'll have this charrette I would imagine in early October. So happy to take any quick questions that folks have. Any questions for Dave. Yes. Is this like when we get to the point that you're hiring developers. Can we have a discussion about like that finding developers the process and opening it up to a far wider range of developers that are like, you know, want a chance and also take a much less profit margin, then we traditionally use we don't use the same developers all the time we we open it to new, you know, entrepreneur developers and that are cheaper and much more efficient. We can certainly look at that actually. If we hire a developer, typically the town is is constrained by Massachusetts and federal procurement laws. So there is a very prescribed process by which we have to put out I heard earlier in your meeting. So that is a similar process we could certainly, you know, look into what parameters what requirements we could put into an RFP like that that are legal, but we would have to fire follow Massachusetts procurement law to do that. So the last part of the question we can reach far and why to see who we could get. There's no real limitations on that it's just they have to be qualified, and they have to meet the requirements of the request for proposals. Did I miss anything there Nate needs. No, no, but I think that, you know, it's a tricky thing, you know, do you, you know, you list qualifications and so you might want to have a design team or developer that has experience. For instance, a big discussion is, is it are they developing and managing it, are they developing it and then handing it off to someone who will manage it and so I think those discussions are really important because it, it changes who might respond and so you know greenfield went through a similar process just recently in terms of who who is actually developing supportive housing and who's then managing it is it all in one is it separate and I think that becomes really important because you know what's the space to use for, you know, first floor ground floor is their shelter is there a drop in day center resources is there what kind of housing is above it. And then that really informs who would respond and so typically you have minimum criteria, you know, you know, kind of, you know, three to five years experience for instance and then a few list a few things and then you have comparative criteria that your proposal have to respond to so it could be like we did with East Street and belcher down road, you know the trust really wanted, say more sustainability or compatible design so you have comparative criteria for that we could do we had some for better affirmative marketing and reaching, you know, populations that wouldn't normally respond and so those are the types of things that then become how you review the proposals and so unfortunately some entities that may not have a lot of that don't score highly in that but they might score high and other criteria so you know we try to come up with a, you know, five to seven comparative criteria that are then reviewed across all applicants and so. But I think there's some critical points in there about how do you structure at first and so you know who's doing the permitting, is it the person responding does it all is it does a town do something and so I think there's so many I think during the process that and some of those concept designs all these things could be discussed a bit you know what is the structure of all of this moving forward. I was going to say that the town is also we've also talked about with different agencies about funding. You know john mentioned how to get funding for certain projects and so we've, you know we've discussed this project, since the town's in terms of, you know how do we get this, you know, say pre development funding or what our other avenues to get things moving forward because it is a big, it's a big price ticket for something like this. I do want to make it clear, as we wrap here that the town is not a developer, we, you know, we will not run the shelter we will not own the shelter and the supportive housing so we do need. We have another projects we need partners and, and yeah, so, so the trust, no question the trust we want to, to collaborate with the trust and with Craig's doors and other entities in the region and we'll invite you all in for that meeting or series of meetings in the early fall. Thank you Dave. Again I just want to thank everybody because we're now at 917 so I don't want to cut the conversation short because it's really really important, but I think what I heard which is really important is is that there's going to be community engagement, including the trust being part of this and we've got lots of members who have lived experience and have lots of experience who would really like to be part of the process. We will very intentionally pay attention to the timelines and make sure that we, we, one of us or a couple of us are available throughout the whole process, including, we'd love to be part of the review of the RFR in terms of the applications. So, I'm just going to move it to Carol to wrap up for the evening. Are there any, are there any announcements is there anything else that has to happen I think I'm kind of feeling done. Is anybody got anything else that they want to say. Can I just add that my beacon properties tried to raise my rent $121 and in between my lease term, which turns out to be illegal. And because I know to write to Nate. I did. Please tell everyone you cannot raise rent in the middle of a lease term. And if you have questions, call or write Nate Malloy because he will tell them it's illegal. And then they will not do it. So that's how you get your rent reversed is by knowing someone on the town staff and then calling them and writing them, we have to say that widely. Otherwise they don't know. Thank you.  No, okay. Nate, do you have your hand up. Yeah, no, I, yeah, actually, you know, did reach out to the town and then I reached out to beacon. I do think yeah it's interesting I spoken with being a few times about this they, you know, I think that they did a risk, you know, a letter to all Apple, all tenants there was an error. They sent it to kind of property wide. I have talked to them about having better communication with tenants, especially in affordable units and trying to have sit down meetings at every lease renewal. And I don't know if it's something they do or don't do but it's just, it's interesting that if tenants don't know to ask the questions then they don't know to ask the questions and so, you know, I do think that the trust can be far reaching and do public outreach and education I do think it could be worthwhile to have some of this available for tenants whether it's you know we have a few meetings. A year we put more resources on our website but you know I, you know I asked for instance the few people at beacon like well you know do the tenants call you how many days notice do you give them can you give them more notice you more than the required, it'd be great to have a sit down every time and walk over the lease. And so you know sometimes they have automatic automatically renewing leases. So you sign once if you're there for three years you never sign again the lease just automatically renews on your renewal date. You'll get a notice saying that it's renewing but you don't actually see a new document and so you know there's certain things that it's maybe easy from a personnel standpoint or from a paperwork standpoint but you then not really know how to ask questions and so, I mean it's something that's constantly evolving and I feel like, yeah I mean I don't you know, I might not respond right like, oh I, my leases renewing sure. Oh the raising rents is according to HUD guidelines sure but you could say well, can you not raise them so much or, and they might not you can actually negotiate with your landlord they don't have to raise them the amount they're saying they're raising them. They don't want to, or they are allowed to, you know every year HUD publishes guidelines but it's just something that I feel like tenants probably don't know that they can advocate for themselves. And so I think that's a really important piece. Thank you. Anything else before we adjourn. I think that I don't think we have to actually take a vote. Shall we adjourn. I make a motion to adjourn. We have voting with our thumbs or was leaving the meeting or something. Thank you very much and thank you to everybody for staying a little bit late. We had a lot of stuff to do. I think we got a lot done and we'll see you in a month and who knows what will happen in between. Thanks a lot everybody have a good night. Thank you.