All right, one of you guys say hello and that'll be our intro Hello, we've done so one so two and then they made a third one the final saw film Yes, well, so I was actually gonna say this probably been the peak of my investment in Seoul. Oh me, too I think this is the last one that Lee Winnell wrote the end of an arrow The OG writer of saw was in it for three and then the rest of it was like, okay Well, you figure out what to do with this The identity of soles of franchise for those of this has to have only seen the first two so far like we You haven't even begun to understand what soles going to become When I do peak you'll know it hasn't cocooned into the beautiful Because I'm gonna peak so hard that everybody in saw bill is gonna feel it Call a saw fan. I'll give you a fan of Justin Bieber.  Yeah, you need What are the people who are fans of saw called losers?  All right Your butts Yeah Go I have no idea Every movie honestly, they really should they should have like a two-minute long sequence like they do with all these famous quotes such as Yeah, look at this we don't even stand somewhere else we got straight up from where we were Look at the honey range of the gun. He's refusing to grab it. Look at that There could be one of the chain I mean, he's doing better than the other ones in that room This is incredibly cinematic. It does seem to be mostly just lit with the flashlight We were complaining about the lighting in the Adam and the camera, right? Yeah, like this is actually like dark And I do like that they are carrying on the tradition of the saw films where if you try to use something and it doesn't work out Immediately how you want you throw it away angrily.  So that's a good sign If you're gonna saw it, don't you want to go on the other side? Not the upper I'm trying to break his foot. No, he's decided that maybe the better idea and you know what I'm not a doctor. So maybe it is We we went to breaking your leg really quick just just say So this was preferable to a fucking saw this will be better Yeah better for blood loss and then maybe you can get like a million screws in your foot and eventually It'll be yeah, I thought he was gonna try and break the actual Broke his ankle like oh with I don't know if that helps just made this decision really quickly I feel he wants to get a son rags I'm not even looking I kind of almost He didn't even try to break the chain or the the the class thing now His way out of the room He's using his foot too well this way He leveled up your gadget You see your face actor It's not detective Matthews, who's this who's this car? Love man Hey He was kidnapped by pinhead this time. Oh, thank God. It's not pitted. It's just jigsaw Have some empathy jigsaw, yeah, haven't I suffered enough you're gonna even say why he went to prison Jay walking To release himself to meet you the chain So the hand ones that's pretty rough rough rough Yeah, the ones in the back eat it on the inside. I don't know how I would do that I yank like I don't think that's happening probably not actually I mean I think so all the skin ones like yeah I could do it. Yeah, you could do it. There's one here that he definitely cannot do the mouth It's literally like yeah, what's that about like so he can't do that I'm the Jay Walker Yeah, how are you still standing because that's where you're telling me what are you gonna do you should try to just get down I was gonna say you need to know try and get away from the bomb will push the bomb in a different direction So it's like a little corner if I'm expected to rip off my job.  Why would I suffer brace for you just sit there holding the bomb like do it do it coward do it I'll get you saw door The guy couldn't get out if he wanted to it seems like however, he's supposed to have gotten out of that He shouldn't have listened to jigsaw That Keanu Reeves no, it's done. He won't Scariest thing in this franchise This right here is an idea a writer had then didn't really think it through this is yeah You've got a camera in the closet aimed at her and it's it's projecting that onto a TV So what I'm surprised here is that she's had a good let's call it 20 seconds at least free call the police Immediately you're on a case that's pretty sensitive for backup.  But it was so cool Well, this looks interesting Why am I never facing the camera when I start these Dead he was really she's not really dead. She's down on the inside.  So the key is inside this asset Acid it would dissolve in seconds So if she had working up one minute later would have already dissolved what did it look like like you put it in a lot Well, it takes it takes thousands of seconds, but just just pour some of it out Okay, they really don't want to do it more than once you need to get in there and get out okay You're dumb ass Okay, so she's not dead, that's good wait a minute The key only unlocked nothing Okay, but yeah, it's you man or woman who's behind all this. I don't know what the rules are anymore for the I think these traps aren't exactly fair. No, it seems like they've established that now This looks like a final destination room this room Yeah, seems like one of those rooms. See you just don't want to be in it's not as shitty as in the other movies But it's rustic is that the word with those? Brick like everyone lives in the warehouse district.  I'm on London one Just as this is a child Have cracked the case. It's lupus. It's lupus There's no need to get snippy lupus is not turning to a werewolf just to be clear It's too early. It's honest lupus. It's never lupus. You stash your drugs in a lupus textbook. It's never lupus I'm going back to coping in my room The woman standing in front of me had to be dragged from the locker room in Denlon should have been the first one there Linden on Linden like I like Where are my pills where are my pills here? They are thank you. I don't need these I'm not gonna take these anymore. You know the kidnapping portions They're such like they are such obviously created for a horror movie as opposed to the pragmatic sort of nature of a person trying to Kidnap. Yeah, this is part of the yeah in kidnapped in a spooky way, and you know exactly what's coming So they might as well not drag it out. Yeah, I always do. You know like oh, I wonder what's gonna happen Come on big ol Why would you capture her she says Everyone wants to capture Lynn Denlon He's one of the best and she forget to put out the trash last night or something you take into depressants. You must not like life There's a question of resource and executions like how are you doing all this stuff? I Linden's when I liked her better when she was performing as the torture victim I don't think she sells it as much with this. Yeah attitude, you know, we mean it's a lot more cheesy Oh my god, he's looking pretty old even older now. I need a bed and change We're going to put my brain into your beautiful young body Yum-yum-yum-yum Those cups of water and like never fall just like a little drop of water in there. Yeah, he didn't want the drown Whoa frontal lobe Lawrence Gordon. We remember him I'm pretty famous actor in the saw movies. I've seen you in Seinfeld I can see it just from looking at you There's no preventative treatment for what you have Clinical way of saying I'm a dead man. He's insensitive I'm only Lin Dernal and I can't just pull up miracles What I meant to say was your head hurty bad bad You think I have long Thanks, that's all I needed to hear. They have the spine model as if that will help in any way I'll shut one child. Yeah This isn't a fun game, dude the second that heart rate monitor flat lines an explosion will go off in that collar Thank you Got it. I understand like I feel like I explained it pretty well, but okay This is my assistant. I know I'm dying, but like, you know, don't even treat me like she's always bitch-splaining for me What's that noise yeah, that's what to ask is Got a harm each shell individually So I can just cover up the ends of the shells so that the it looks like I can just pull the shells out actually Yeah, this looks really easy to get out of Hello, that was a transition new character Against the drunk driver killed your only son. Hey, why didn't you trap the drunk driver instead of the grieving father? Hey So his crime was putting justice in his own hands jigsaw is the only person who's allowed to take justice Yeah, he's like judge Careful Jeff you're grieving too hard get over it like grow up It's kind of funny that as an audience for meant to just believe what Jigsaw says about these people Well, he went to all the research Make my day Where are my bullets dad your bullets are by the booze where they always are yeah You know my other boys. I just wanted to check and see if I had any bullets Don't touch things in Dylan's room Mr. Biggie, he's not like beating his child about this or he just kind of like he's processing trauma and grief in his own way And it's probably not healthy, but like well, yeah, I don't know you'll try For it honey, I wish it was you The wrong child died You should be sorry I can't believe you're a drunk driving at such young age as the vehicle operator Oh That was a risky move waiting here. Yeah, that was really risky. Yeah, the guy had a gun Yeah, I guess I was like he's not processing his grief in a healthy way So we're gonna put you through this that's where I commit to be tortured. Yeah I'll show you something to grieve about it.  Yeah honest tombstone.  How do I get trapped in here? It's cold.  I've never seen a naked girl before I'm kind of surprised. She's alive They've done a lot of Bernie ones, so they wanted to do a freeze even now Don't throw that key.    I don't know go do it It's really cold you can tell it's cold because the light is blue the idea that they're starting with someone who saw it and then Feels kind of like they needed to be more information for why she should be condemnable. That's not quite enough How does Jake's I know she saw it and didn't test I don't know I just don't know jigsaw overheard it as she was bragging It puts it just out of his reach if he just wasn't concerned about his fingers staying in his sleeve Challenge exactly Yeah, you could put something up against your cheek. Yeah easily, but he's Oh now I'll get the key.    Why do you want to touch this? It's the cool saw thing it's known for that at this point, okay Oh jeez oh my goodness that was scary Jump scare after another if you really care about John you won't let me do this to him I go for the neck, but I'm not the brain surgeon. We seriously just have to find the sensor and disarm it So you can walk more than 30 feet out that door without the collar detonating that would have been a lot funnier While she was monologuing she just go at that I think I would have taken the opportunity myself gonna be honest with you Do you think Dr. Len denderman knows that jigsaw is a serial killer you must have heard of jigsaw by now in this universe, right? No, if she kills jigsaw and then machine kills her The structure of this one seems weirder than the rest Was that necessary the older they just showed us by the way No, not really. I feel like we could have been food all of it before we begin I just want to let you know that this is really dumb I Here you're asking me to essentially perform brain surgery on you We're doing the thing that is used to signify how complex something is most people just take hammer and chisel to the brain to do Surgery back in the good old days.  This is Clayton. Give me a delivery driver for your pizza last week, and he was four minutes late as the movies progressed The sins you have to commit gets smaller and smaller Eventually hits play on the thing is this is James and it just stops That's it I thought one day of community service is fine He said he was sorry Freedom is hidden inside your son's possessions let the switch on the incinerator underneath you leaving on with a key Remaining I would hope that our characters live at this point make your damn decision. Okay, don't halfway it They're still making noises Sorry, but what are these pigs if not just liquid anyway Made of big No Not the argument I would open with I'm a judge you can't do this No, I literally don't I'm sorry please save my life. Can we discuss this later? Maybe you remember Timothy young Dude, I'm drowning in pig goo Hey, that's not bad. That's not bad.   I wouldn't even know if he's alive though We're not hearing him if you're gonna have to burn them either way go burn them and then leave the room So you're right.    There it is. What? I guess I can't really his arms.  They were like, we better give him five minutes this time Why me faster than you expected there's a limit he was at the very yeah, you're right He was about to drown. He couldn't have been any slower I'm gonna try to relieve the pressure by cutting away a little bit of your skull So maybe it'll make you a little bit nicer to other people.     Why did it? Why do they take Amanda this way? You didn't need to look how cured she is.  So he'll love me It's time to cut myself and do drugs again You're just kinksters.   You don't want that I mean, I guess it doesn't really make a difference I suppose but it's still kind of weird. Where's uh, where's dr. Lawrence? Yeah, I don't get it. What's the point of that? Just pop in the key there key to that chain is in the bathtub Unless they lied to him and it doesn't actually open anything What's the point of that? I don't know. There's no point to it. It doesn't make any sense Probably should have explained this to it before oh, yeah, he's telling her the plan as they're doing it cool Yeah, that's for us. What's that? All right, I'll catch you at 530 bye Have a magic tricks done this is one of the such strange pacing It does I assume the point of that flashback was to show that she was kind of having doubts the whole time about being his It was like fan savings, I think that whole set of flashbacks. Yeah, really.  This would be Donnie's escaped, right? No, I think he hasn't shown up yet. I think that's Adam Yeah, yeah, right Adam wake up.  It's all over. It was a joke man. You a shot. I forgot about that Only in the shoulder. It's fine Oh, she's having second thoughts. Oh, yeah We just hit his head on the toilet seat Your hands were free you can't use hall through the mouth that would never possibly be a thing Any character would do Fingers it would be gross Yay back to this story Thanks for showing me that so let's have a chat about the fact you need to let me die.    They don't tend to actually try to go there anyway Okay, so you need to actually act instead of just staring. Oh What I like is that the judge man is actually trying to act immediately.  Yeah Squat down even if you get if you the top your arms in my craze the top of your Exactly I thought he was gonna put the pipe in the gears to stop the gears from turning Oh, you can easily reach it. Surely you can try something around it, right? Yeah.  Yeah Why would you ever be standing Oh I don't know. I don't know where the lock is man. I don't know. Just kidding. There is no lock. I just really don't like He's still screaming there's an idea here, it's just that they don't The prosthetics were good. Yeah, where they yeah, I think so Okay, I didn't think the head looks very good, but it's all right. It's really hurts If saw looks and he's like wait the judge is dead wait, wait, what?   I despise murderers Murders are so lame We're just the same yeah, are you ever curious why everyone keeps calling you those things? Oh my god, they're holding hands This that's it.  I want I want to hang out with the cool doctor What they seem to be portray is the matter is hyper jealous the jigsaw's hanging out with the cool new girl. Yeah One of the best characters in like the first movie and then in the second it was kind of cool To some degree, but then her character just sucks in this movie.     Yeah Yeah Donnie she's still breathing buddy. Come on finish doing it right what oh No, my I don't know how she still comes It's not there. He hit you so many times.  This really got to it he's right. She's very self-conscious.  Yeah, see that you're not gonna leave you for the next hot young thing through They say I was This film is like made it very Clear she's insecure about the fact that she wants to be a cool serial killer.  She's kind of proving her. I don't do it to change people. What if it's just fun, okay? Nobody is reborn.  It looks like he's getting such a bad headache right now. Yeah Oh Let me have a tumor in peace.  Why are you so obsessed whoa? Wait, no, what are you doing? Why?  She doesn't kill that repair Because that's Jeff's wife and he came in just in time to see that so he's not about it He showed up at the exact moment. Ah, what's good timing?   Yeah, most of them were unwinnable, but that's fine Design traps herself.   This is a long-ass flash back. Yeah, this is a while ago When we finally catch up we're gonna have to go into the wash back again Everything just turns into like a YouTube poop, you know Seriously not upset about it Yeah, he's kind of a bad person Jigsaw's just like so would she all right? Uh-oh.  You definitely can Jeff we'll see she's unconscious but alive so she can't explain why he shouldn't Yeah, that's a kind of a good point you pretty get her out of here. Yeah, well, you may not do can you just stop talking Jake's action?  I just want to see if you can do it And you can forgive a saw There we did we found we got it The series is saved me. I mean that one does seem impractical Honey, I'm still dying. It's fine though. You go ahead and take your time to choose your weapon.  Yes Yay To the ground He walks away and he forgets his wife. You have still dying, buddy. Oh Jesus. Oh, what you doing? Yo, oh a better saw I can't feel anything.   He wasn't an instant death. So he could do it. Did you really win jigsaw?  He's like, I'm the best I was right about everything I'm the greatest. I never killed anyone The satisfaction he must be getting as he's dying Where your door is. I've never murdered anybody.   Look at all these people that died in the other movie. Yay, we did it Oh, jeez. Well, that's what happened to him now This one really feels like they wanted it to end here, which is strange because where does it go from here? Well, is that true because we saw him doing the wax thing with the tape as as john was mentioning that is Going to be tied to the next movie. But yeah, who knows at what point that was put into the script It seemed like in terms of like james one and lee wannell. I think they were like, yeah Three and we're out. I wouldn't put it past them to do some strange bullshit to keep it going But jigsaw appears to be dead. Everyone appears to be dead, which uh, is something they will go on to regret Wait, we killed why the villain? Well, okay, so what does everyone think of soul three? That was weird. I did not like it. I liked a couple of the traps easily my least favorite Ah, why is that hard to really say but I did not enjoy that nearly as much as the other two 20 minutes longer than the other two there is so random bullshit in this film That doesn't need to be at all We go on all these side things to try to recontextualize the previous two movies But like this story itself is just the the the guy not doing anything and watching all the people involved in his son's death Die because he sucks. There is something like I need you to perform surgery on me. Okay. You perform surgery on me Thanks. Yeah, that's the amb plots Anyway, I'm dead now the idea of putting a guy in all these positions and making moral judgments and whether or not He's gonna rescue them something it's like so there's something there, but I think they execute it horrifically This guy sucks. It's not interesting to watch at all There's really no choice here. Why are you delaying on like doing the thing that you need to be doing? And also, would it be satisfying to you to just watch them die horrifically at someone else's hands if you want to take vengeance yourself?  So bye. Bye I'm sorry. That's possibly the worst part of this whole film is when he disconnects the key and then lets the thing go And then just like avoids it, but it shoots here. It's like, oh come on How would that have gone then if he'd actually rescued the the water lady and then him and then maybe the black guy Still died or maybe he got up but all of them And like jigsaw's trying to explain the game whatever they're all just out of there like so what about us? What was the deal with Yeah, he would have had like he would have had a few other tapes. He would have pressed I guess we've uh like kind of moved past that because it's obvious, but yeah, like jigsaw's plan is absurd. Yes Yeah, the closest thing you can get to anything meaningful in this is the what would a grieving father Do if he's faced with a chance to have the people you consider responsible for like the grief experiences in his life And the lack of justice for son's death, what would he do with them? Would he stop them from being killed this sub thing here, but it's not utilized at all Oh a witness that didn't testify.  It's like, no What do you mean? I think the only one that actually is kind of interesting is is the last one It's like this guy killed your kid But when they showed the flashback and the guy gets out of his car and he's he's crying and losing his mind It's like i'm already like, um Clearly this was not intentional in any way or even yeah Well, here's the here's the thing like he got sentenced, right? So clearly he was found guilty for it. What did the woman not testifying do? How did it affect? Oh, yeah, he would have been double guilty Yeah, I'm not sure yeah, maybe it was from the layer. I don't know be funny if the flashback snapshots were of him laughing Like oh my god. I'm killing children while driving. That's a mistake.  There was no proof. There was a witness She knew exactly what happened, but he paid her off or something like that something Yeah, anything might make these people much worse.  He's like no, maybe maybe he's like even then It's tough. It is tough and they just didn't do a very good job. And then that's that's probably it's not like They didn't have the time to do it also It is dare I say the actual strongest part of the film because everything to do with jigsaw is marred by amanda.  She is awful. She does drag the movie down a bit. Yeah, and every time it's the scene with them It's just like see amanda's jealous because she wants to be as cool as jigsaw But she's really bad at it and then when he holds the hand of a little She's so annoying person over there. Oh, that's too much and she kills this What is this so I will go as far as saying soul one is still the reigning champion But I don't know where yeah, three or two is better. It's kind of Yeah, I don't know what's better. I think two is much more entertaining. I I used to think two Was like worse, but I think on this rewatch. I think three is worse like amanda is so annoying It's way too long. It loses its simplicity And not it's totally not Yeah, like it's one of the riles one of the things that loses at least in the whole back half of this movie There aren't any traps that the people in them can get out of themselves. We don't have that at all We just have one guy one other guy has to decide Throw in the donnie. Do you want to save them or not onto it as well Just to be like see amanda's first proper kind of trap She fucked it all up and just killed him or possibly question mark then and then she just did that to everyone It's just like that's not interesting at all.  There's no Yeah Yeah, I think this was a mistake I think sore three they need to refine their formula because this still isn't it They were trying to be conclusive about it and yet not at the same time How do we wrap this in this one? This bullshit?  Yeah. Yeah, they're all dummies Oh gaggle is glorious. What else is there to say about sore three? I don't know very good It's terrible. Someone has to mystically survive something of this so we can watch the next one Yeah, I mean, so this is the part I actually I was hoping to get past sore three for the specific reason of like So now we get fun in terms of how do they keep this story going and by goodness? It is fun. They've written themselves into a corner and we're gonna see exactly how they run I think that's the idea right there.  Whoo-hoo. And then it's like, okay I take it back That would have been a really awful ending if that's how they did end the whole series. Yeah, it would have been. Oh, yeah Yeah, I'm very glad they kept making it. They kept making it. I'm very glad that happened. Uh, so yes, that is I'm gonna go pee. All right. That is sore three. Thanks for watching That's me Oh, whoops whoopsie what'd you bring me?


Hey guys we got Kyle here. We'll start with Michael. Hey Kyle, how's it going man? It's going good, how about you? Good. So I guess just walk me through yesterday like how close were you to not playing? How how beat up were you? How close were you to say being functional I guess? That's kind of weird but I would say I was I wasn't beat up I was I was fine and just didn't go the way I guess I planned. I know I said he's Arthur kind of hinted that you were pretty you know that you kind of gutted it out yesterday. Everyone's kind of deemed up at the last game of the season so just go out there you know playing for the rest of the guys in the team. And now that your year's over now that the season's over how do you look at and how do you frame this rookie year for you? I feel like it's an okay start. I feel like there's a lot more to work on and achieve so I think it's just you know the first step. Appreciate it, thanks. Josh? Hey Kyle. Do you have an offseason plan? I know it's just became the offseason about 12 hours ago. Do you have an offseason plan? Will you take two weeks off or you haven't had probably don't feel like you've had any time off in two years but how will that structure go for you? I'll take some time off initially and then I just get back in a swing of things, get back running, let the weights and you know run on the field stuff. How do you think that what you have learned in the last four months will impact what you do in the offseason in terms of you know how much better will your preparation be able to be because you now understand exactly kind of what you're doing. I think it'll be way better you know just because like you said just learning everything that I've seen in the season in OTA since I declared just knowing how I can do things different to kind of you know be a better athlete and human. Any surprises this year? I mean maybe everything was a surprise on some level but anything that stood out in terms of okay you didn't see that coming. Chris? Hey Kyle is there was there a moment this season that you could pinpoint that you will call your your favorite moment of the season or your your best best moment of the year or anything like that? I would either say the first game and I would say the first game or the last game just starting out the year and then ending it with the guys you know that were in our room. I was you know two pretty cool moments because you know we built the long line since I got drafted and we all been kind of close to it and you know together so it just was pretty you know fun playing with those guys and then they're not the right way. And how about in terms of like the biggest challenges this season what what were some of those? I'm just staying on schedule you know trying to rehab my body find it for me to rehab it better and just get it from the game making it physical you know when I do have a chance. And you said your first the for a little bit after the offseason you you won't do football so what would that look like for you? Is that vacation? Is that video games? What does that look like for there? That's confidential. I'm just playing but you guys are all going on vacation and taking time away you know spend time with my family and then I'll get back to it. Thanks y'all. D-Led maybe not Tori? I'm here sorry Gavin. Okay D-Led. I hit it twice. I was already into my I was thanking Kyle for being available to us every week during the season just about and I appreciate your help and so forth. Just a question on where and what area of your game or areas of your game do you feel that you made the biggest strides this year? I would just say mentally trying to read defense better. I feel like I got better since OTA is all the way up to the last game trying to be able to play faster and be able to you know play at a high level speed so that was something I kind of you know proud myself getting better at each week. And were the route combinations a little bit different from pros in college and how was that and developing how to so you know set up and run your routes? I'm also slightly different but at the end of the day it's just ball because everybody kind of runs the same thing and it's kind of mirrored but just you know like I mean it was some different combinations and some different things but I think it was it's kind of cool to kind of learn different ways you know rather than in the college rails a little more I'll get you to say slow it down. And then lastly how difficult was it learning all the positions? I mean some people have problems learning just flanker but you know you moved around and were proficient and several spots in the offense how difficult was that and you know how was that process for you and will that help you move it forward?  Thanks Kyle. Thank you. Tori? Yeah just a big picture question for me I mean Arthur was talking last night about laying the foundation for this organization in the first year. From your just perspective what kind of do you see the foundation being here after year one with Arthur? I'll say just a tough hard work and we'll call it to the situation and where you know everything that he preaches I you know I think that this year was a starting stone and I think you know we'll go up from here. Thanks Kyle. We got time for a couple more Charles. Oh you're muted Charles. I did it twice just like D-Led the can you just talk about the pressures you felt if any as you guys had some some volatility on the depth chart at wide receiver you had to take on a big role for any tight end but especially a rookie one and and did you feel that pressure during this season and did you did you sense changes during the season as to how defenses treated you? I'll say I kind of did my best to not even think about anything in the area of pressure because that kind of will weigh you down men's land physically so just you know just roll with the punches everything that happened and all the injuries that happened this year and just you know this team just keep fighting and other people having to go other positions and still perform but and I it wasn't I don't think it was anything you know too heavy to know where you know weigh me down. And can you share what it's like at the facility today?  I mean it's still a great vibe it's still a team still you know brotherhood that we a close bond that we all have it's you know it's great vibes you know a lot of us rookies in the year one guys just finishing the year out healthy you know blessed and it's no negative vibes you know it's all good. Awesome thanks Kyle we'll have Cordero on.


Hello, and welcome to this edition of Quality of Life. I'm your host, Dave Augustine. Today we're gonna talk about orthopedics, and in particular, the spine. Joining us to talk about the subject is from Lakeshore Orthopedics, Dr. Thomas Sylvester. Dr. Sylvester, welcome to the show. Thank you, thanks for having me. Nice, just to start out with, what is your specialty in orthopedics? My specialty is orthopedic spine surgery. So, although while we're on call for orthopedics, we take care of any musculoskeletal injury, my typical practice is focused on disorders of the spine. Okay, now you're a board certified orthopedic surgeon, correct? Yes. What do you have to do to become board certified as far as your educational background, as I'm sure hours of internship or residency, all that sort of stuff? I started out in college, I got my degree in biology at Yale University, which was four years of college. After that, medical school is another four years, and I completed that at Rosalind Franklin in Chicago. And after the four years of medical school, people specialize. My specialty, orthopedic surgery, is a five year residency program, and I completed that residency program at Loyola University in Maywood, Illinois. After we finish our orthopedic residencies, we have the option of going into orthopedic practice or subspecializing in one of the various subspecialties of orthopedics, whether it be spine or hand or sports, foot and ankle, and that is an extra year of training. So I chose to do a spine surgery fellowship at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. Okay, so do you just focus on spine surgeries that are referred to you, or do you also see patients and do the analysis first? My practice is both, actually. Typically, we do focus oftentimes on the surgical treatment of spine issues, but the vast majority, thankfully for patients, the vast majority of them that see us in the office don't necessarily need a surgery. Okay, how long have you been with Lakeshore Orthopedics? Been with Lakeshore Orthopedics for a year and a half now. Oh, nice, nice. Regarding the spine, just for our viewers, could you go into what purpose or function does the spine serve for the body? The spine really serves a number of purposes. Number one, it's the basic architecture for our entire body to attach our limbs. So it's the base for our arms and legs, essentially. The spine also, it's not only the bony architecture of the spine as a spine surgeon that we concern ourselves with, it's also the contents of the spine. So the spinal cord and the nerves that travel through and exit the spine. Okay, and that all I'd have to see attaches to the brain so it's all related all together and functions as one almost. Absolutely. Definitely, okay. What are some of the conditions that you come across or experience in your care patients? Sure, the majority of patients, thankfully, that we see for a back pain injury, most of them are strains or sprains. Someone's overdone it, they have pulled a muscle in their low back or in their neck and are having pain from that. That's the vast majority of what spine injuries are. Some of the more debilitating injuries that we'll see are people that have disc herniation. So the cushion that's in between the vertebrae, that's in between the bones of the spine, when that becomes injured and protrudes, it can push on nerves causing pain into the arms or the legs or another part of the body. So that's another common problem. In terms of degenerative injuries, we'll often see types of symptoms that are related more to arthritic-type conditions. So just instead of a traumatic injury, a wear and tear of the spine, just like knees and shoulders and hips can become arthritic over time with use, same thing happens with our spine. Okay, for our viewers again, could you give us kind of a summary or a generalization as far as what is arthritis? Sure, arthritis is really wear and tear when we talk about osteoarthritis or the more typical type of arthritis. And what happens is whether it's in the spine where there's a disc wearing out or some of the small joints in the spine wearing out or whether it's a condition with a knee or an ankle or a hip, it's really the loss of cushioning between the bones so bone spurs can form. There's narrowing of the spaces and that can cause pressure on the nerves in the spine in particular. Okay, what are some of the diseases that can affect the spine nowadays? Well, we do oftentimes consider osteoarthritis or wear and tear, a disease, but more specifically, we will see tumors of the spine so whether people have a tumor or a type of cancer that's begun in the spine or whether it's a lung cancer or breast cancer or prostate cancer that's unfortunately metastasized or moved to the spine, that's a common issue. Discurneations are things we worry about. In aging folks, we worry about the loss of bone density and we'll see compression fractures and all that is unfortunately is the result of osteoporosis, a loss of the firmness of the bone and the bone gives way under pressure. Okay, what about scoliosis? Scoliosis is a fortunately not incredibly common but often enough seen by spine surgeons condition. And scoliosis in the most general terms just means curvature of the spine. So there are many different causes for scoliosis. When we see scoliosis in younger folks, infants or in toddlers, it's often related to a genetic condition or sometimes a neuromuscular condition where the musculoskeletal system isn't forming properly. That's not thankfully seen as often in the adolescent age group. So all of us probably have members of our family or we went to school with someone who had to wear a brace at some time or had surgery. That's typically what we call adolescent just meaning that age group. Idiopathic meaning we don't know the specific cause for it, scoliosis. And we know that there's a genetic component that is involved but we don't have the genetics completely worked out. Those folks thankfully most times don't need surgery and are oftentimes treated well just with observation or with bracing. Unfortunately some kids do need to go on to surgery. And then a third type of scoliosis that we'll see is in the aging population or adult population. And when there's wear and tear on the spine, loss of disk height, the joints in the spine wear out. Degenerative arthritis or degenerative scoliosis is really just a form of arthritis. A curvature occurs in the spine because one side wears out a little faster than the other. Now by curvature of the spine, which way does the curve is that when you see your people like leaning forward with their necks down or does the spine actually go side to side? The spine will, in scoliosis, so in adolescent scoliosis, we know it's mostly a side to side bending but there's also a bit of a rotational component. So sometimes we'll see people that are sent to us because in a school screening, they're asked to bend forward and the school nurse will see or the gym or PE coach will see that the patient has one shoulder blade higher than the other. Well that can be seen in scoliosis because of some of that rotation that causes the ribs to rotate a bit. Oh, how about some people you see where they're hunched over or bent way over and you can't straighten up.  Absolutely. That can be a number of things. In some folks that is, unfortunately, their posture from weak musculature or a type of injury over the years. The term for a true hunching forward of the spine is kyphosis. And that can be, again, similar to scoliosis, can be seen in a younger age population where it has a genetic component and that's just how the person is growing. It can also be seen in folks that have degenerative conditions of the spine or weakened bone where maybe they have had a compression fracture or multiple fractures and it's caused them to hunch forward because their spine is not able to support their weight. Okay. Can spine conditions develop with leaning forward ever from their work environment or repetitive work? If they're like, let's say at a desk job and they're always leaning forward looking at their desk or their papers or whatever, can that contribute to? It can certainly contribute to symptoms. It often doesn't structurally injure the spine, if that makes sense. So we can see people that have muscle imbalances, type muscles, weakened muscles in the core and in the low back that can lead to symptoms, but oftentimes desk jobs don't necessarily correlate to a specific injury. When we see work injuries, it's usually more of a physical type job. And that's not to say that the other folks with office type jobs don't have pain, but thankfully it doesn't often cause a structural problem. Okay. Now I know with the bones, you have bone marrow. Is there bone marrow in the spine as well? Yes, absolutely. What function does bone marrow perform? Bone marrow really is important in the early years in forming blood cells. So that's one of the main functions. Okay. Now also in the spine, you hear once in a while I'm talking about spinal fluid or whatever, is that the same thing or is spinal fluid something different? Spinal fluid is different. So the architecture of the spine is really a column essentially of bone and disc, bone and disc with the disc being a soft material, cartilage type material. It's almost like a essentially like a cushion and a tennis shoe or a shoe insert. That's exactly right. And it involves or allows for motion and shock absorption. Behind that column is a hollow tube. And that's where in the higher spine in the neck and in the thoracic spine, the rib cage area, that's where the spinal cord runs. And when we get down to the low back, the nerves travel through that same area. So those nerves are contained in a sack that's full of spinal fluid. And that sack goes from the sacrum down near the tailbone all the way up and is continuous with the covering around the brain. So the spinal fluid is the same fluid that's up around the brain. Neat. Dead, I didn't know. You talked about tumors and obviously cancer. You know, and cancer metastasize and everything. And a lot of times it goes to the major organs or the bone structure or the spine. What is that process happening or what is it that how cancer forms in the bones or the spine? Sure. Typically when we do see cancer in the spine, the majority of those cases are metastasis. And all that means is that the cancer cells have moved from somewhere else in the body.  And those get into the bloodstream and travel to the site where they then proliferate again and can cause a secondary tumor. Okay, interesting. So about back pain, what is the common type of back pain that people will have? Common type of back pain that we'll see most people for is sort of an acute back pain injury where they've had, say, they're raking their leaves or doing some yard work or carrying something up from the basement where they've just bent down the wrong way to pick something up or they've overdone it either in athletics or sometimes at their job or around the house. And those are typically the muscular type strains that we've talked about earlier. And those are usually injuries that are fortunately self-limiting. Some of the common over-the-counter medications for pain and anti-inflammatory medications as well as heat and ice stretching, things like that usually take care of those types of situations. So those would be your weekend warrior type situations? Absolutely. Basically, as far as it goes. How does that differ with chronic back pain? Sure. Chronic back pain in the symptoms people have can be very similar to those acute symptoms, but unfortunately they have lasted for months or even years at times for people. And oftentimes those injuries can be something much more structural as opposed to just a muscle strain or a muscle or a ligament or tendinous injury. Oftentimes people with chronic back pain will have the arthritis we talked about or a long-standing disc problem that hasn't been treated. Okay, how about chiropractic care? Does that help with the spine in cases or is it just a kind of a he makes it better but there's still a unmasked issue that's around? Chiropractic care is excellent for a lot of patients and for some patients they unfortunately don't gain the relief they're looking for. But that's with all facets of medicine. That's also with spine surgery. Most folks that I've come across in my office that have worked with a chiropractor have gained excellent relief. Unfortunately, just like spine surgery though there are some things that are difficult to treat with chiropractic care and need a different direction. Sure, I know some people that I know use the inverted hanging devices where you strap your feet and you go on the board and hang upside down. I mean it seems to help some people also with theirs. It's probably the same thing where it's actually stretching out the spine. That's exactly right. The inversion tables essentially really negate the effects of gravity. So it's reversing gravity. So instead of the pressure being from the head down it's really from the feet down and it allows the compressed discs to relax and to gain height again. So some people again they find excellent relief with inversion tables. As I know one friend of mine did that and he used the inversion table because he was scheduled for back surgery to go in and correct it and when he came down for his appointment he saw him walking around and we're not gonna touch you because of what the inverted table did. Absolutely. That was kind of nice. What are some of the other home type remedies that people can do to help support good back? Sure. Proper lifting technique, proper body mechanics, proper posture is very important. Anytime we're leaning over, bending at the waist forward to pick something up off of the floor or off of a low table, probably a bad idea. We're really increasing the strain and the forces on the low back. Some of the things that people can do at home if they've had an injury to try to recover are heat and ice. For initial injuries we usually recommend for 48 to 72 hours people ice the injury to try to cut down on the inflammation. We know after that time some people do quite well with heat. Oftentimes people that have had an injury will be seen by a chiropractor or a physical therapist and be started on a home stretching or exercise regimen. The vast majority of people do gain excellent relief with those modalities. Excuse me, how about some over-the-counter drugs like aspirin, ibuprofen or whatever to help alleviate pain? Absolutely. Things like ibuprofen, naproxen, some of the over-the-counter non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications are excellent for people that have had these sort of like you alluded to earlier, weekend warrior type injuries. The muscle strains and sprains, it really helps to cut down on the inflammation in the area of the injury. Things like Tylenol while not an anti-inflammatory work well as a pain relief medication and sometimes are used in conjunction with the other medications. So the medications, would they help more with the muscular type strains and not the physically bone type strains or do they help with both? They actually help with both. The anti-inflammatory effects that folks get with the ibuprofen or naproxen, they're often used not only for spine injuries or back pain, but for knee arthritis, shoulder arthritis, other types of injuries as well. And we know that by cutting down on the inflammation they work well as an arthritis type medication as well as an acute injury medication. So if I have a back pain that just won't go away or what type of symptoms should I really look for when it comes to, I have to go see a doctor about this because I just can't take it anymore. Sure, the majority of symptoms that we worry about are things that really are suggesting a more serious injury than just a muscle strain. So pain that won't go away after a few weeks despite some anti-inflammatory medications or Tylenol, a stretching program, heat and ice, any type of weakness into the extremities. So you're trying to get up the stairs and gosh, the leg just isn't under you. Any type of pain radiating into the arms or the legs associated with a back or a neck injury. Persistent pain just in that area we worry as someone had a fractured vertebrae. Any type of bowel or bladder issues or balance issues can be suggestive of worrisome nerve compression or spinal cord compression. I know when I was a kid and I started hunting I fell out of the tree, I was like 20 or 30 feet up and landed on right square in my back. But I had all my heavy clothes on and everything but it was great going down but it wasn't when I hit but you could hear all the branches cracking or whatever and I didn't really notice, yeah I bruised some ribs and everything but I really didn't notice the more chronic pain till I was probably five, six, seven years older. Is that a common case where you could sustain an injury but you really don't feel the effects till later on in life? Absolutely. Traumatic injuries we know do in a lot of folks accelerate that degenerative process even if there hasn't been a fracture or a frank disc herniation with the injury. We do know that oftentimes that disc can be injured or the bone can be injured to the point that the normal aging process or the normal wear and tear process is accelerated by that injury. So unfortunately that's not an uncommon scenario. Okay, when do you feel when surgery is the last resort or versus other types of treatment like physical therapy or whatever when you determine no it's time to do surgery? Sure, really surgery should be the last resort for everyone. When people have tried all of the other options, the chiropractic care, physical therapy, anti-inflammatory medications, sometimes people will undergo injections, different types of spinal injections that are essentially cortisone injections to try to relieve their pain or their symptoms. That's really when surgery becomes an option. More rarely we'll see people with an acute injury like a spine fracture that's unstable or if they have a tumor or something like that that becomes more emergent that's causing weakness or pressure on the spinal cord. Those become emergent surgery type situations. I know my grandma had a surgery on her back where they actually had to go in and make more room for the spinal cord because the spine itself was pinching in which she couldn't even walk, she was in so much pain, chiropractors didn't work. Could you go into, in summary, what really means with that surgery, what's all being done? Absolutely, so when we talked earlier about the column arrangement of the spine, so behind the bone in the disc is that open column where the nerves run or the spinal cord runs up higher and that can become a narrow pipe essentially from bone spurs, from disc bulging, just from wear and tear, quite honestly. And as that area narrows, it puts pressure on the nerves. And when there's pressure on the nerves, people have oftentimes leg symptoms that can be present all the time. It can be present just when they're up walking or standing or in certain positions but really the way to alleviate these symptoms people are having is to open that area up again and to take the pressure off of the nerves. So for those types of surgeries, what we do is go in and open that column up. So it's essentially a plumbing job. We're taking a narrow pipe that's tightened or that's clogged and we're opening it up to take the pressure off of the nerves. Those types of surgeries are typically done through an incision in the back. We go through and take away part of the offending bone and ligaments that are pushing on the nerves without necessarily destabilizing the spine and having to do any type of fusion type surgery. How has technology helped in performing these types of surgeries were before? You never even heard of it. Now they're going in on a regular basis and doing that, cleaning it all out or fusing this together and all of that. How has technology come forward? Absolutely. After the, over the years, all types of surgery have become much safer, both because of surgical technique and because of anesthesia techniques. Specific to spine in the last 10 or 15 years though, there's been a big push towards minimally invasive surgery or less invasive surgery. And it's really doing the same types of surgeries that were done traditionally just through a slightly different technique where there can be a different approach used or different retractors or instruments used to make smaller incisions and to decrease the recovery time for patients, get them out of the hospital and functional much more quickly. So it's really all facets of medicine but in spine surgery particularly in the last 10 or 15 years, the push towards minimally invasive surgery has really improved a lot of people's lives. Nice. What are some of the risk factors that can contribute to back pain? Inactivity or overactivity? And when I see inactivity, being physically fit is quite important. Maintaining a healthy body weight is important. We wanna do enough activity that we're fit but not be so overactive or have such a heavy workload that we're injuring ourselves. We know that smoking has a huge negative impact with regard to spying conditions. The types of soft tissues and the types of material that's in the soft tissues of the discs is similar to the types of soft tissues in our skin. And we know that that type of collagen is broken down by smoking. So that's a huge factor for a lot of people. Posture is a big issue for people which goes towards physical conditioning and strength of the abdominal muscles, the low back muscles. Those are important aspects. If we're not fit around our core, we're really increasing the pressure on our spine and not allowing our musculature to act as sort of a natural girdle. Okay. If I wanted to find out more about the spine and its functions and some of the things that can happen to it, where would I go? Do you have a website or a number that can be called? Yes, we do. Our practice's website is LakeshoreOrthopedics.com and we also have phone numbers for both our offices in Sheboygan here on Taylor and in Manitowoc. Okay. We have a couple of minutes left before we have to wrap. Any final thoughts as far as the spine, the health of it or advice to people on how often they should be checked or when they should be checked? Sure. In terms of how often people should be checked, thankfully there's been a big push in schools over the last 20 to 30 years to do routine scoliosis checks. That has the early detection of scoliosis in younger folks has allowed early treatment with bracing and other techniques and has saved thousands of people from surgeries that they otherwise would have needed with later diagnosis. In terms of the adult population, it's really and truly just making sure that we keep our body weight at a reasonable weight, making sure that we stay active and limber and really just being sensible about the way we lift and perform our daily activities. Okay. Well, Dr. Syvester, I'd like to thank you for appearing on the show and talking about the subject. I find it quite interesting. Great. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate your time. You bet. This concludes our show on orthopedics and the spinal column. If you care to find out more about this episode or have any other suggestions for episodes that you'd like to see, you can contact us through our website at www.wscsheboygan.com. For Dr. Sylvester, Quality of Life, I'm Dave Augustine. Thank you for watching.


Good morning everyone. Just wait for you all to start entering the chat. How's that? Is that looking good? How are you all going? Can you just let me know that you can hear me okay? Check out the sunshine. Check it out. All clear. Yo, what's going on everyone? Good morning.  How old am I? I'm 32. This is England and it's not always pretty in the morning. Most of the time it's gloomy duck and cloudy. Thought we'd do a little Q&A live stream in the morning for you guys. Just on my way to the gym. Thoughts on Jason Casino. I don't really have anything to say about him. I don't really know anything about him. Not sure. He's not vegan anymore maybe. Is he joining the trend? People like him have no credibility anyway. He's gone back to being unethical. I don't know. I have not followed his story at all. So for me to have an opinion on something I'd have to know the ins and outs. Let's keep looking through these. Be vegan for three years and turn my mum vegan. Amazing. How to convince a bit meat eaters that we can feed pets a plant-based diet. People are so horrible towards vegans about it. That's cruel. The pets vegan thing. Well there's actually a study they did on vegetarian cats and dogs. You can look it up. You can actually email me if you want the study. I think I've got it in my notes. But basically there's no specific nutrient in meat that can't be synthesised. Look at Beyond Meat. Look how amazing they are mimicking the macronutrient profile of meat. All you need to do then is add some nutrients like we do, like our own supplementation. If you mimic the macronutrient profile of meat with plants. Then you add in the nutrient profile for dogs and environment. There's no reason why a dog can't eat specifically designed food made out of plants that can help them thrive.  Nowhere in nature do you see domesticated cats ripping tuna fish out of the ocean. That's absolutely ludicrous. Your cat does not have enough moral value to justify fishing out the oceans, killing sentient sea animals just so they can have fish. People say what about their natural obligate omnivores? Cats are not even naturally occurring animals. They're like selectively bred domesticated house cats. How can you justify destroying the environment and killing dozens of other sentient beings? There's hundreds of sentient beings to sustain a house pet like a cat or a dog. You can look after them, but if you can design a diet like we do with beyond meat. Macronutrient profile the same as meat.  How to be an activist online using social media? I didn't actually know that my page would get large. I'm not the biggest vegan on social media by any means, but I do have a very strong animal rights message, which is a lot harder to develop a following with. Not everyone wants to hear about their choices being responsible for gas chambering animals and stealing calves from mothers. I'm very graphic with my description and very hard-minded in my approach. But I didn't set out to get a following. I set out to inspire and to create change and I had a passion. And that's what you need to focus on. You need to focus on your message. You need to focus on sharing your light that you have in your heart, the desire to change the world. And when you focus on that instead of focusing on following, focus on bringing value and bringing an important message and defending animals, then the following will come. So that's what you need to focus on. What really do you want to achieve? What is your intention?  I'm not suggesting that that was your primary focus, but it seems to be a bit of your focus. If you really generate your power to all of your energy towards trying to get the message out there and focus on your intention with it, what you want your outcome to be, the following will come. And I never set out to develop this massive following. I mean, I just set out. I've been taking for a lot of my life. I've been causing so much hardship and I've been an addict. I've been in gangs. I've been violent. I want to leave a positive mark on it. I want to do something that will leave a positive legacy and not like, I don't want people to remember me for, you know, when I went off track for all those years. So I had this desire inside of my heart and I wanted to spread that and, you know, everything that happened basically followed on from my desire to create change. It was not like I want to make money from YouTube or I want to develop a following. It was, if you want to follow, I suppose the reason you want a following is so you can influence many more, a lot of people, but I think just focus on your message and focus on your intention. The following will come. And also another thing I want to say is that you don't need to affect thousands of people with a post, just two or three or a dozen. Think about that. Think about talking to a dozen people on the streets, how much energy and time and, you know, just focus you're putting into those conversations. On social media, you can reach a dozen people with no energy, just a click of the fingers. So if you're reaching a dozen people, that's more than you're going to in any other, like now that we have social media, you can reach a dozen people with a click of a finger. How amazing is that? Think about that. Think about that. And if you influence two of those people to, you know, make different choices in the supermarket, you've effectively created social change. That's what activism is. Now, I think when you start getting caught up in the following and going, oh my God, this guy's got more following than me, that doesn't mean he's making more of a difference in the lives of individuals than you. You could have less following, have a more pronounced, powerful message and affect someone in a more profound way. I know I've seen people with like a million followers and not bringing much substance, not bringing something that's going to change someone's life forever. You know what I mean? But you can have 5,000 followers and you can affect 50% of them in a way that changes their life forever. You know what I mean? So it's more about quality, the quality of your message. How are you focused on, focus on, you know, how am I going to inspire and motivate people to make better choices and to help animals and, you know, focus on the victims and what they're going through. They're suffering. No matter what you're following, you'll keep going just based on doing what's right. Yeah, sorry, that opened up a big... I thought you were in jail. No, I'm all right. I haven't been in trouble with the police for at least six or seven years now. Seven years, I think. This guy turned me vegan years a year ago. Keep the questions rolling through, guys. I don't really want to keep scrolling. If I see it, if I go past your question, just ask it again and I'll just answer it. What would you do if a carnival eats raw meat at one of your street events? Yeah, that kind of depends. That kind of depends. Anyone who does that, it kind of makes me wonder whether or not they're worth having a civil discussion with. I don't really know how I'd approach... I guess it would be on a case-by-case basis how I would approach that. If they're willing to have civil discourse, then I would. But for me, it's not really that much different than... It is generally trying to antagonize a group of activists who are standing up for justice, but it's not really as... When you see someone eating Burger King, when you're sitting on a plane and there's everyone eating chicken and you've got the vegan option and you can smell the flesh and they're eating that chicken. It's kind of different context, but it's not really that much different. They're eating abused animals around you. But it's just that the carnival is going to deliberately antagonize the activist group. I wouldn't flip out. I mean, I wouldn't go, I just don't approach things like that. I mean, it would be on a case-by-case basis. I don't know until it would happen, but I would approach it calmly and rationally and have discourse with the individual probably. And I would probably be there to calm any of the activists down who got a bit too worked up because it would be quite emotional for some people as well. What if the whole world goes vegan and more insects die due to pesticides than now? Well, that doesn't make any logical sense. We're on every day because we're feeding most of the plant foods to animals and all those plant foods we're feeding to animals are getting sprayed with pesticides. So by virtue of the world going vegan would need less plant foods, less plant agriculture and therefore less pesticides. The vegan lifestyle causes the least amount of harm and the least amount of plant agriculture and the least amount of resource use and the least amount of pesticide use. So, yeah, that doesn't make any logical sense if you think that through. Thank you for the question. Please debate Dr. Zakir Nakik. Sorry, I can't pronounce that. I don't know who that is. How do you talk to someone who doesn't want to listen because they only care about their taste buds and doesn't want and doesn't want that pleasure to go away? Okay, so you're talking about someone who only cares about taste buds. So they say, yeah, this is another case-by-case basis thing. How would I deal with it? Well, it just depends. It just depends on the individual and whether or not they're willing to have a civil discussion about it and whether they're open to dialogue. If they don't want dialogue, why force dialogue?    But I get the taste though thing a lot and that probably would have been me like 6 or 7 years ago. I would have been like, yeah, but I don't want to taste so good. I don't really want to see that. Burgers taste good, they do. No one's debating whether or not you can make a hunk of flesh seasoned up. You know, you change the flesh so much like we're through cooking and through seasoning with plants and put it in between bread with sauce. No one's debating that that can taste good. No one's debating that human flesh if you grind it up and minced it up and add seasoning to it at herbs and spices and put it between bread with sauce would taste fine. Like, because you derive pleasure from an action doesn't therefore justify that action. You could justify a whole bunch of, you know, immoral things by using the justification it feels good. We can go into those things, but I'm sure you could think about those things yourself like gaining pleasure out of an action does not justify an action when there is a victim. So, you could mention that. You could ask them a simple question like do you think taste, do you think because you derive pleasure from an action that has a clear victim do you think that that action is therefore justified and you could ask them that question but if they don't want to talk to you move on to the next person because there's no point burning yourself out on people who just don't want to hear it like you've got so much to give give it to those who, you know, for the most part are half willing to have a discussion with you even if they don't agree if they're willing to have discourse then have that discussion with them. I don't know how to check my, there's, I don't know how to check those top chat, live chat, super chat. Okay, here we go. Is there anything in the super chat? Okay, here we go. Well, someone's given me, well, thanks for the donation. CDN the third. Keep on keeping on brother. Thank you so much, man. That's really generous of you. Hey, I didn't expect that and thank you too, Matthew Rodburn. What would what would you be? Or what or a wasp? What would you be or a wasp? What would you be or a wasp? I don't know what you mean by that. I can't, I can't answer. What would you be or a wasp? It doesn't really make sense. Maybe answering it to ask it in a different way, but live chat. Let's go live chat. Let's see at least. Okay. Which area are you in the UK? I just, I'm in the UK. I'm in England. Joey kind of slow. No, it was a joke. It was a joke or a serious question. I'm not really sure. Joey, I love you. You're awesome. Too easy. Too easy to go vegan. Vegan food tastes better and no animals rape murdered. That's so true. That's a very true statement. Thoughts on Alabama abortion ban. Like, I can't comment on something that I haven't looked into. I don't know the ins and outs of the ban and what it. So I can't comment on that. I think abortion is a very complicated topic. There's so many individuals to consider. And I really, there's so many different scenarios with that in terms of like, yeah, it's just a really, really deep and complicated topic. I mean, I'm not, I don't know anything about the actual law that was passed. So I can't really comment on it. But I do think that when you talk about a topic like that, you have a responsibility. And you need to think it through very carefully and think of all the different types of scenarios that can arise. And yeah, it's a very complicated topic. Oh, Henchy boys in the house. Henchy boys been going off lately. How are you the cutest little bean? Jaco Waco. I really like Jaco. I really like Jaco. He reminds me of my brother. He's, you know, he's a bit of a larrican. Like he, he's happy, go lucky. But it kind of was, I think maybe he was suffering some mental health issues probably. I haven't actually discussed this with Jaco and I haven't watched his videos through. But I think that he might have had some mental health issues that he was pretty open about. And alcohol and crappy food doesn't help. You know, would I, would I just completely write Jaco off as a human being? I mean, Jaco has been very supportive of my work. And I think that he's just, he's become confused, filled with doubt and misguided.   And I think it's important to support Jaco. Like I personally think, like if he was my, my mate or my little brother or something and my little brother was going through something like that, I'd be there like, dude, like, the worst thing you could do is just have a full on go at him. You know what I mean? Like just offer you, you know, offer your ear and some advice. And I actually reached out to him recently. I was, I was actually felt a bit bad that I hadn't reached out sooner. But I was obviously filming. I was going through my own, you know, quite hectic things. So, but yeah, you know, these things happen. I've suffered mental health issues for years. I was on multiple different types of medication. I was using substances. I was in gangs. And so it's really loud here. And lifestyle, environment, diet, exercise, sunshine, those things really help mitigate the symptoms of anxiety and depression. I'm not saying it's going to deal with the root cause. But what I am saying is that it will create an environment inside of you. That makes it a lot easier to deal with the symptoms of them and to mitigate the symptoms of them. So if you're getting out, getting sunshine, getting exercise, staying off the alcohol and the drugs and other substances, vegan diet with lots of fruit, berries, nuts and seeds, you know, whole food, beans and starches and legumes and you're out there riding your bike, getting the vitamin D, you're making sure that if you're not getting vitamin D you've got like a backup plan which is some supplementation, your B12 is on point, lots of water, getting enough sleep, all of those things.  This is coming from someone who had serious mental health issues for a lot of my, you know, for a lot of my teenage years and my early 20s. You know, so I know someone who's just like, no, I understand the complexities and the worst thing you can do when it comes to mental health issues is drink alcohol to quieten your anxiety. The worst thing, it's like, it's on par with taking Xanax or some type of anti-anxiety to deal with it. It's really like, it's very counter-intuitive and it's got a backfire on you very hard. I don't have time, I can't actually deal with any of the trolls by blocking them. So you're just going to have to like deal with it. JC, are you related to Rob Wogg? No, but I think we were in a past life. Rob Wogg, I really love Rob Wogg. He's a great guy. He's been vegan for many years, two decades. And he's a really good guy, really good guy. Vegan equals a natural diet. What does that even mean, natural diet? I don't know, if someone says, eating meat is natural, what does that mean? The thing is about veganism, it's an ethical principle. It's a moral principle. Nature has got nothing to do with moral principles. Just if you just look at nature right there, morals, we need to conceptualize our moral principle so that we go, okay, these are the moral principles we're going to adhere to, to be consistent and so we can have a functioning civilized society. Where on earth does nature come into that? Veganism is not even a diet. It's really, this is a really big misconception and let's clear this up. Veganism is not a diet.  Your diet can be consistent with that ethical philosophy. But the diet is not the philosophy. You know what I mean? People like veganism is a diet that they are completely misunderstood or not even looked into this. We get a huge percentage of vegans that don't even know what the philosophy is they adhere to. That is the thing, I eat mostly plant based or eat plant based here and they contribute to animal exploitation in every other area. People think veganism is about health. This is crazy. There's nothing to do with health in the vegan society's definition of vegan. Look it up, dude. See that plane? Captured that. Look it up. A whole foods plant based diet happens to be superior in terms of health outcomes. And it happens to be consistent with the philosophy of veganism if there's no animal products in that diet. But veganism is not the diet. There's nothing to do with health, it's to do with animals. Avoiding animal products for any reason as far as practically possible. So yeah, we need to be clear about that. But just so happens that avoiding animal products is better for health in every way. There's no debating that. Oh, there's people that will debate it. There's no question on that. Let's have a look at the super chats here for a sec. You're liking this more? Forever wishing you could come to California. I can't go to America for now. Thanks, Ted Coombs, for the donation there. You're an absolutely amazing Namaste, Joey. Keep on keeping on. Namaste, Kennedy. That's actually your name. Namaste, Kennedy. Now, peace to you, my brother. I think Namaste means I see you and it's kind of like I see you. It's more of a spiritual kind of, you know. But yeah, I see you too, my brother. Are plant based burgers bad for you as it's processed? You know, you look at the, look. I'm not going to say that like, well, not all plant based burgers are equal for starters. You can make a plant based burger out of black beans and legumes blended up with, you know, even you can make it with like satan patty, low in fat. But if you've got a, you know, something like a beyond burger, it's not really anything to do with health. The beyond burger, it could be healthier because it doesn't contain both cholesterol and saturated fat. But a beyond burger is loaded with saturated fat and oil. Like, you know, so just I would keep them to a minimum. But what it doesn't have is the body parts of an animal whose bolt gunned in the head and slashed across the throat and like mecha tons of resources used to feed these animals and, you know, just animal agriculture as a whole. Like this is made out of plant. So this is the good thing about plant based burgers and not all plant based burgers are equal. Some are super healthy. I could make you a plant based burger right now that would be super healthy. You could add spinach and black beans and black seeds and, you know, you could make your own plant based burger that would just be amazing, you know.  But no animal was stabbed in the throat, which is fantastic. So, yeah, it just depends. Not all plant based burgers are equal. Thanks for your question, my brother. Hi, Joey, you're a wonderful soul. Thank you, Vondiva, the rebel. The rebel. Hensheba was in the chat, chatting away. Engine 2 probably makes the healthiest store-bought vegan burgers. I wouldn't doubt that. They're no oil. Look, I'm not saying, like, you know, if you want to have optimum artery health and optimum health, and it's probably best to keep processed oils to a minimum. But I have seen that study reference where, like, they removed animal fat from the diet and added in plant fat, and they had 30% less instances of cardiovascular disease, which is interesting, like, very interesting. So plant fat's obviously superior to animal fat. In terms of health outcomes for heart disease anyway. But still, like, I avoid oil most of the time.  But, like, look, live your life.  Heart disease, though, eliminate oil.  Avoid oil at all costs, you know, please. All vegan products should be supported and promoted, even if you don't eat that particular brand. I'm on your side with that one, mate. I'm on the animal side with that one. Support vegan products, no matter who is selling them, no matter which company is selling them by the vegan product. And even if you don't particularly eat that, even if you don't particularly eat that product, don't oppose it. Don't oppose it. If McDonald's brought out a vegan burger, don't oppose it just because you don't want to eat the other animals. Good for cows. Let's look at it from the animal's perspective. If McDonald's put a vegan option on every single McDonald's on Earth and everyone had that option, people are going to walk into McDonald's and see it and go, wow, I've seen that video of those cows being slaughtered the other day. I've got a vegan option that's better than, you know, mated cow bodies.   You think I think it's a good corporation with the best in mind for the humans, for humans animals on the Earth? Of course I know that's not true. But if they put on a vegan option, we need to get behind it. We need to get behind it because it helps cows in the end of it, it helps animals. This is how we can change corporate. If everyone bought the vegan burger, they put on another one, then they can change the whole menu. Imagine if McDonald's vegan. They decided that using soy puddies was better financially for them. That's all they care about. They only care about money. They don't care about nothing else. If they figure out soy puddies, they actually taste better. They sell really well and they financially make sense. You know what I mean? They turn the whole restaurants vegan. Imagine that. If we don't buy the vegan burger, guess what they do? They take it off the menu. They take it off the menu. And then there's no option at McDonald's and people just think veganism is a bit harder. It makes veganism a little bit harder. We want this to be as easy as possible for your average person.  We need these options to exist. I think we need to put our emotions aside and think about what's best for animals and use our logic. Okay.  Seating the third.  Thank you, dude. You're just a legend. Thank you, mate. He just gave me a really amazing donation. Thanks, man. Thank you, dude. I really appreciate that. Are you a guy or a girl? I can't really tell by your name or your profile picture, but just thank you so much. Wow. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the support everyone like. I've got such an amazing support network and it does, I'm not going to say it doesn't make things easy. It does make things, you know, sometimes it can be a little bit, get to you a little bit like, but you guys really make things like, it's like we've got a good supportive community here and, you know, there's a lot of adversity. There's a lot of negative comments and I get my fair share of them, don't you worry. But like, you guys are really show solidarity and it means a lot. So thank you, I love you for that. Vegan men have really low testosterone, probably why I built like a stick. Irish David. Tell Hensherba more that, mate. Tell Hensherba more that. And David, where's your picture? Can you send me a picture of what you look like, please? I want to see how big you're built. You know, I've seen plenty of meat and dairy eaters that I built like sticks. What do you think that's got anything to do with dairy intake or do you think that's got to do with the fact that they're in train? Because I'm not a good luck stick. Don't have lower testosterone. Show us the research that says vegans have lower testosterone. It's actually the opposite. Henshi, tell him. What happened to your dog? Oh, no, that was our Laura's dog, Waldo. Waldo was 19 years old and we lived like, when Laura got with Waldo when he was about eight or nine. So she had him for like, and he was abused before Laura got him and she had a lot of work to try to get him to trust and she just showed him utmost love and looked after him with all her heart and she spent the last six months just caring for him 24 seven and spoon feeding him and then like she just evaluated whether or not keeping him alive was the most moral thing to do so she had to let him go and he was becoming disabled and he had dementia. Things that happened to 20 year old dog so he was a little Jack Cross and he was a rescue but it's really sad because he was like a member of the family and it was really upsetting to see him go and Laura's very distraught about it and trying to be as supportive as I can. My dog in Adelaide Don't deflect.  My dog in Adelaide. What do you mean by having my dog in Adelaide? Bye bye. Don't deflect. I thought you were talking about the dog Waldo that passed away. My dog's in Adelaide and that's my brother and my other dog Snooki is my mum's she's with my mum so what are you talking about?  Sorry about that guys I don't usually swear but he said you abandoned a dog in Adelaide whatever you don't know nothing about me mate Nugget was my dad's my dad passed away I had care of Nugget for a year my brother took Nugget on because Nugget was originally my brother's I don't have to tell you my personal business anyway Nugget's with my my brother and Snooki's with my mum anyway um yeah they are they're just like where's your dog you're abandoning or you want to get a conspiracy theory happening mate like the Euland Dogfest so Jane Ellison has done on the 50DKK I don't know what that is the Euland Dogfest is soon what do you think about that and you think we can never stop it go vegan peace Jane the Euland Dogfest is absolutely horrific and um most of the majority of the population oppose it already um if you walked about 15km down the road um so for me my primary focus is the the animals that aren't people support the torture of animals in in our countries um and vegan advocacy stops that so if you advocate veganism to people who support the abuse and torture of cow, chickens and pigs and fish you can stop that over here when it comes to the dog meat trade um where Euland and stuff a little bit trickier to stop because none of us support it we all oppose it already um they do it we could bring in laws we could try to affect laws in different countries um for the most part like when we have I could go for a walk right now take me probably 30 minutes I'll get to a slaughterhouse that slaughters more animals in a few months then dogs are slaughtered in Euland in a year you know what I mean like in one slaughterhouse here in England um so like and that's supported by the public that is supported people defend the torture and slaughter of pigs and chickens and fish you know defend it like like with all their heart but Euland they oppose with all their heart and it's in a completely different content on the other side of the world the slaughters don't even obviously it's horrible dog for torturing killed horrible I hate it if I seen anyone torture and kill a dog I would be mortified but I see people torture and kill chickens by the billion billion and no one blinks an eye people tease me mock me for defending them and I think that's huge hypocrisy I would love to go to Euland and defend those dogs like for sure and I will say something about that but the hypocrisy inherent in society is absolutely laughable and it's so so blatantly insane to oppose the exact same thing just based on species that you support every time you have a sandwich it's just so insane okay so hold on, thank you I'm a big fan I was told not to invoke political opinions in regards to my veganism at my high school I'm very politically charged and as curious as to how I should go about it thanks man well that's fine because camera is a political isn't to do with politics it's to do with ethics you know what I mean like is it really a political position to be against child abuse is it really a political position to oppose animal abuse you know I mean I guess you could you could start to push it into the political argument changing laws and stuff like that but for the most part veganism is a philosophy on ethics it's about being consistent with your moral position like with your actions and your morals you know like I'll just say like people conflate veganism with politics it doesn't matter where you sit in a political spectrum you can still be a vegan unless you're I guess there's extremes to that but yeah I'd say like veganism is an ethical position nothing to do with politics um do you recommend vegan ice cream but not survey?  Joey I'm a vegan I fish in honey etc but I respect your videos and your journey so much congrats on being Saber and finding joy from rice and motivation thanks quite people I appreciate you saying that I wonder why I just I'd also appreciate it if you looked into the message a little more as well like especially you know fish and honey um you know fish get a really bad rap they really get a bag they're one of the most abused animals on earth in terms of numbers they just get ripped out pulled out the ocean with massive trawling nets which pull out indiscriminately like multiple different species on top of the targeted species and drop them onto boats and they suffocate and die they might get stabbed in the head or they get asked to CO2 or ice bath fish cut up alive and eaten alive and they just treated like objects and um you know I feel like fish is a forgotten species on earth and it's a real shame like um and honey is just inherently cruel and exploitative uh they cut the wings off of queen bee they kill the males to inseminate the uh and they squeeze them to get the semen out of them and crush them inseminate the queen bee they enslave the queen bee in these hives it's just it's just really honey is like a sweetener we have a hundred alternatives for like we have multiple different types of sugar it's just it's just so I know I just feel like it's really selfish of humans to want to take that from bees as well where we have we have so many different plant sugars like agave and maple syrup and golden syrup and um fruit sugars and date syrup and like so many derivatives of cane sugar that you couldn't count them like and we still want the honey it's just um it's just crazy it's it's really it's really unethical and selfish I told my friend eggs are unhealthy and she just said well everything in moderation how do you respond to that um the fact is if you've got a a baseline cholesterol like say a vegans a vegans baseline cholesterol and you add a few eggs to that diet and you spike to cholesterol so eggs in moderation I would argue kills people you can um check up go to nutritionfacts.org it's a really great resource for studies and just check just type in eggs are healthy our eggs healthy and you can get some really good um information I was strictly plant based for a few years and the other day I tried out strictly plant based I don't know what that means I know big briskets from the body of a uh murdered animal but anyways guys it's been a really good live stream I'm nearly at the gym now and hehehehe Iris David is a cholesterol denier which type of cholesterol the one that we produce in our own bodies isn't obviously bad but the dietary cholesterol is bad is bad builds up in your arteries and kills people enjoy your day Joey I burned my hand and now I can't tofu egg wrap earlier said vegan body because you said vegans can't get protein yep PEDs doubles the requirement yeah so if you take steroids this is a great point to make uh I just want to say this point because it's hilarious when anti vegans look at vegan bodybuilders and go well they're big because they're on steroids right and then in the same breath they go you can't get enough protein from a vegan diet okay okay so which one is it vegan bodybuilders are big because they're on steroids or you can't get enough protein from a vegan diet which one because your requirement for protein basically doubles when you're on testosterone and steroids because you need to produce that much more muscle so you need to double the protein requirement because you're growing so much more you think you're just going to grow muscle with steroids alone you need building blocks steroids stimulate the muscle but you need the building blocks so you need the protein and if you're saying like vegan diets are deficient in protein you can't get big on a vegan diet well what are you talking about dude you're just especially reinforcing the fact that vegan diets have a sufficient amount of protein even more than sufficient more than sufficient so yeah which one is it which one is it guys much love to you veganism joey you're beautiful okay so it says hi joey you are are you spiritual because you have a beautiful soul finally found your pathway thank you I guess I guess I do I don't know what you mean by spiritual I guess I have I have conscious awareness because of my struggles I've been through in my past and I had like a series in my life enlightenment and epiphanies which kind of led me to find alignment in my heart and I guess you could say that now I attract the life that is in alignment with my values and I guess you could say that spiritual depends on your definition of spiritual we are much love to all you guys just rocked up to the gym that's your workout and I'll speak to you soon I think I'll do more of these youtube live streams peace Brittany thanks William