Hello, Psych2Goers. Welcome back to another video. Have you ever thought that you've found the one? Maybe they've got the brains, the looks, the morals, everything you've desired in a partner. And you couldn't be more ecstatic. This could be the person of your dreams. Well, it's only the first date, but still, you couldn't be happier. Only you sense that there may be something off. You ask yourself, do they feel the same way about me? Well, sometimes it can be hard to read the signs that someone is simply not that interested. So to help you out, Psych2Go presents to you nine signs someone is just not into you. Number one, they don't open up about themselves at all. Do they share their opinions with you? Whether it's to talk about their past, their family, or just general things about their life, they're reluctant to open up to you may mean that they're just not that into you. Serious relationships involve talking about things that matter. Although you don't need to get too personal on the first or second date, if things haven't progressed when you've been together for a while, then they may not be feeling the same way about you as you do about them. Number two, they haven't made the move to ask you out. So you're texting this newly found love of your life. Your head over heels for them, but they haven't asked you out yet. If you're the only one who's made any attempt at meeting together in person, whether that be a romantic evening or just to grab a cup of coffee and hang out, you might want to reassess whether this person really likes you back. After all, if they are interested, they'll make an effort to ask you out on a date. Number three, you just aren't feeling it. Okay, so you think this person is great for you? They have a great personality that matches yours. They're extremely smart. Yet, for some reason, you don't get excited about them at all. Truth is, you can generally figure out whether someone is into you by the way they make you feel. If you've been talking to this person for a while, and you don't feel the effort on their end, then there may just not be any chemistry between the two of you. Number four, they ignore you.  What are you doing? If this great person doesn't care enough to call you back or respond to your texts, then they clearly don't care enough to start a serious relationship with you. In fact, they may be trying to ghost you. You can check out our video, 8 signs someone is going to ghost you for more insights. Number five, their responses are short. Are their responses to your texts extremely brief? Generally, if someone isn't interested in you, they won't want to chat with you for long. Think about it. If you don't want to talk with someone, but don't want to be rude or impolite, you may just give the most minimal response required, like a simple K. These short responses may be a sign that they're not that interested. Number six, they don't introduce you to family or friends. Have you met any of their friends or family months into the relationship? It may be a sign that they're not that serious about you. A study published in 2014 supports the thought that marshaling for romantic relationships is normal, especially if you can't stop thinking about them. You want your closest friends and family to root for the one you love as much as you root for them. So getting their feedback and security is a stepping stone into moving the relationship into a much deeper place. Number seven, they bring up their ex often. Do they talk about their ex a lot? If they're talking about their ex more than they're talking about you or themselves, then it's likely that they're not over them, whether it's in a reminiscent way or a begrudging way. If they're talking about their ex and the past memories of them all the time, then it might be time for you to realize they're not over them and they're probably not ready to be into you. Number eight, their phone is protected at all costs.  But if they seem overly protective about their phone and especially about who they're texting, then they may be hiding something from you. However, it's best to express and communicate your concern to them instead of confronting head on without any real evidence. And number nine, they're not ready for a relationship. And they've told you that. Okay, your crush is so perfect, but there's just one problem. They've said that they're not ready for a relationship. Whoever is, right? You may be thinking that they'll fall for you and things will work out in time, but think again. This person made it clear that they aren't looking for something serious. And if they had the urge to say this to you in the beginning, then they really are just not that into you. Did you relate to any of the signs we mentioned above? Let us know in the comments below. If you found this video helpful, be sure to like and share it with those who might benefit from it. And don't forget to subscribe and hit the notification bell icon to get notified whenever Psych2Go posts a new video. The references and studies used in this video are added in the description below. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you in our next video.


Live from San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. Welcome back to day two of theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in San Jose, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. James, it's great to be here with you, host in the hosting seats again. Day two, yes. Exactly. So, here we are, this conference, 2,100 attendees from 32 countries, 23 industries. It's a relatively big show. They do three of them during the year. One of the things that I really- It's a well-established show, too. I think this was like the 11th year since Yahoo started up the first Hadoop Summit in 2008. So, it's an established event. Exactly, exactly. But I really want to talk about Hortonworks, the company. Something that you had brought up in an analyst report before the show started. And that was talking about Hortonworks' cashflow positivity for the first time. Which is good. Which is good, which is a positive sign. And yet, what are the prospects for this company's financial health? We're still not seeing really clear signs of robust financial growth. I think the signs are good for the simple reason they're making significant investments now to prepare for the future that's almost inevitable. And the future that's almost inevitable, when I say the future, the 2020s, the decade that's coming, most of their customers will shift more of their workloads, maybe not entirely yet, to public cloud environments for everything they're doing. AI, machine learning, deep learning. And clearly, the beneficiaries of that trend will be the public cloud providers, all of whom are Hortonworks' partners and established partners. AWS, Microsoft with Azure, Google Cloud Platform, IBM with IBM Cloud. Hortonworks, their partnerships with these cloud providers go back several years, so it's not a new initiative for them. They've seen the writing on the wall practically from the start of, Hortonworks was founding in 2011 and they need to go deeper towards making their solution portfolio capable of being deployable on-prem in public clouds and in various sundry, funky combinations called hybrid multi-clouds. Okay, so they've been making those investments in those partnerships and in public cloud enabling the Hortonworks data platform. Here at this show, DataWorks 2018, here in San Jose, they've released the latest major version, HDP 3.0 of their core platform with a lot of significant enhancements related to things that their customers are increasingly doing. Well, I want to ask you about those announcements. But also, they have partnership announcements that deep ones of integration and lift and shift of the Hortonworks portfolio of HDP with Hortonworks data flow and data plain services so that those solutions can operate transparently on those public cloud environments and as and when the customers choose to shift their workloads. Because Hortonworks really, like Scott now yesterday, I mean, he just laid it on the line, they know that the more of the public cloud workloads will predominate now in this space, they're just making these speculative investments that they absolutely have to now to prepare the way. So I think this cost that they're incurring now to prepare their entire portfolio for that inevitable future is the right thing to do and that's probably why they still have not attained massive rock and roll and positive clash flow yet. But I think they're preparing the way for them to do so in the coming decade. So their financial future is looking brighter and they're doing the right things. So now let's talk tech and this is really where you want to be, Jim. I know you. Oh, I get sleep now and I don't think about tech constantly. So as you've said, they're really doing a lot of emphasis now on their public cloud partnerships. But they've also launched several new products and upgrades to existing products. What are you seeing that excites you and that you think really will be potential game changers? You know, this is geeky, but this is important because it's at the very heart of Hortonworks data platform 3.0. 3.0, containerization of more of what, when you're a data scientist and you're building a machine learning model using data that's maintained and persisted and processed within Hortonworks data platform or any other big data platform, you want the ability increasingly if you're developing machine learning, deep learning, AI in general, to take that application you might build like using TensorFlow models that you build on HDP to be able to containerize it in Docker and orchestrate it all through Kubernetes and all that wonderful stuff and deploy it out those AI out to increasingly edge computing, mobile computing, embedded computing environments where the real venture capital mania is happening and things like autonomous vehicles and drones and you name it. So the fact is that Hortonworks has made that in many ways the premier new feature of HDP 3.0 announced here this week at the show. That very much harmonizes with what their partners, where their partners are going with containerization of AI. IBM, one of their premier partners very recently like last month, I think it was, announced the latest version of IBM, what do you call it? IBM Cloud Private, which has embedded as a core feature containerization within that environment which is a prem-based environment of AI and so forth. The fact that Hortonworks continues to maintain close alignment with the capabilities that its public cloud partners are building to their respective portfolios is important but also Hortonworks with its, they call it a single pane of glass, the data plane services for metadata and monitoring and governance and compliance across this sprawling hybrid multi-cloud scenarios. The fact that they're continuing to make, in fact really focusing on deep investments in that portfolio so that when an IBM introduces or AWS or whoever introduces some new feature in their respective platforms, Hortonworks has the ability to, as it were, abstract above and beyond all of that so that the customer, the developer, and the data administrator, all they need to do, if they're a Hortonworks customer, is stay within the data plane services environment to be able to deploy with harmonized metadata and harmonized policies and harmonized schemas and so forth and so on, and query optimization across these sprawling environments. So Hortonworks, I think, knows where their bread is buttered and it needs to stay on the DPS, data plane services side, which is why a couple of months ago in Berlin, Hortonworks made it, I think, the most significant announcement of the year for them and really for the industry, was that they announced the data steward studio. In Berlin, tactically clearly it was who addressed the GDPR, mandate that was coming up, but really data stewardship as an end to end workflow for lots of core enterprise applications. Absolutely essential, data steward studio is a data plane service that can operate across multi-cloud environments. Hortonworks doesn't even keep on, they didn't have a DPS data plane services announcements here in San Jose this week, but you can best believe that next year at this time at this show, and in the interim they'll probably have a number of significant announcements to deepen that portfolio. Once again, it's to grease the wheels towards a more purely public cloud future in which there will be Hortonworks DNA inside most of their customers' environments going forward. I want to ask you about themes of this year's conference. So the thing is, is that you were in Berlin at the last big Hortonworks data work summit. Yeah, octoliber, yes. So really GDPR dominated the conversations because the new rules and regulations hadn't yet taken effect and companies were sort of bracing for what life was going to be like under GDPR. Now the rules are here, they're here to stay and companies are really grappling with it, trying to understand the changes and how they can exist in this new regime. What would you say are the biggest themes, and we're still talking about GDPR of course, but what would you say are the bigger themes that are this week's conference? Is it scalability? Is it, I mean, what would you say we're going? What do you think has dominated the conversations here? Well, scalability is not the big theme this week, though there are significant scalability announcements this week in the context of HDP 3.0, the ability to persist in a scale-out fashion across multiple billions of files. Storage efficiency is an important piece of the overall announcement with support for erasure coding, blah, blah, blah. That's not, it's already Hortonworks, like all of their cloud providers and other big data providers, provide very scalable environments for storage, workload management, that was not the hugest, buzzy theme in terms of the announcements this week. The buzz, of course, was HDP 3.0. Containerization, that's important, but we just came out of the day to keynote. AI is not a huge focus yet for a lot of the Hortonworks customers who are here, the developers. They're, most of their customers are not yet that far along in their deep learning journeys or whatever, but they're definitely going there. There's plenty of really cool keynote discussions, including the guy with the autonomous vehicles, or whatever that thing we just came out of. That was not the predominant theme this week here in terms of the HDP 3.0. I think what it comes down to is that with HDP 3.0, Hive, though you tend to take it for granted, it's been in Hadoop from the very start practically, Hive is now a full enterprise database, and that's the core, one of the cores of HDP 3.0. Hive itself, Hive 3.0 now is its version, is asset compliant, and that may be totally geeky to most of the world, but that enables it to support transactional applications. So more big data in every environment is supporting more traditional enterprise application, transactional applications that require like two-phase commit and all that goodness. The fact is, Hortonworks from what I can see is the first of the big data vendors to incorporate those enhancements to Hive 3.0, because they're so completely tuned into the Hive environment in terms of a committer. I think in many ways that is the predominant theme in terms of the new stuff that will actually resonate with the developers, their customers here at the show. And with enterprises in general, they can put more of their traditional enterprise application workloads on big data environments, and specifically Hortonworks hopes it's HDP 3.0. So. Well, I'm excited to learn more here on theCUBE with you today. We've got a lot of great interviews lined up and a lot of interesting content. We've got a great crew too, so this is a fun show to do. Sure is. We will have more from day two of the...


Every day throughout the fleet service members are being trained to recognize and prevent sexual assault. At each installation there is a team of qualified individuals who help make that mission possible. Well as a SART, I love my job. I love the aspect of training, helping people understand the program because believe it or not as much training that we do have, a lot of times people are not too sure about the particulars so I really do enjoy the prevention piece a lot because that's what you can actually get in and talk to the sailors, marines, airmen, civilians as well and pretty much explain you know what are the expectations of this program?  Because a lot of people you know they don't really have that understanding especially under their the UCMJ's definition it's different from the civilian sector. Nicholson has played a significant role in developing events and classes throughout the year that actively engage everyone in the fight against sexual assault. The self-defense classes you know as cliche as it may sound but they're actually really good and I I appreciate that we have men coming out too because men can too be victims. It's really there to help people realize that hey because these do happen here are some techniques you can gain or here are some techniques you can probably recall if you find yourself in a situation you can actually fend for yourself. In addition to those classes a proclamation signing and weekly information booths Nicholson helped organize a 5k color run to further connect community members to the cause. When people are engaged they learn they retain information and so if I can have everybody leave through here and understand what is sexual assault how do you prevent a sexual assault I would feel very successful as a start. Lance Corporal Tony Nardiolo, ROTS.


What's up coach? Welcome back to our channel. So today I want to talk about my experience in UK Elite Soccer. So the purpose of this video is to give you guys a little bit of an insight what it was like working for UK Elite Soccer and how you can take the things that I'm about to share with you today and implement them into your business. Right? So the purpose of this video is to talk about the positives that I took from working for one of the biggest soccer coaching companies in the United States and also how I took some of those things into my own business and how you can implement those things into your training business to get to the next level. So hopefully you enjoy this video and if you haven't yet subscribe to the channel. So for those that don't know my background I spent six and a half years, almost seven years out in the United States living and coaching working for a company called UK Elite Soccer. Now that company at that time were in the top three biggest soccer coaching companies in the entire country. We were in over seven states. We had a customer base of in the millions and huge, huge company, great experience to work for. And the video, the purpose of this video is going to give you a couple of insights into what it was like working for them. They currently rebranded. They're no longer called UK Elite Soccer. They're now called, I believe, Still United or Still Soccer, one of the two. But I haven't worked for them in a while, obviously. But I spent seven great years out in the United States living, working, coaching for them. And I'm going to take the five best things that I learned from working at UK Elite and how you can implement those things into your soccer training business so you can take it to the next level, improve it. And if you want to work with me or you want to learn more how to get my help, visit the description below. That will be the best way for us to connect. Now, the first thing that I really enjoyed and I thought that added a lot of value to me as a coach working at UK Elite was the PD sessions or PD events that the company used to host. So professional development events or sessions were moments where one of the management team would come out and evaluate us on the coaching field. So every two to three weeks, one of our regional managers would come out and watch us coach, give us feedback, and we would take that feedback and obviously improve as a coach to become more efficient. Now, as well as that, we used to do a seasonal PD event. So sometimes we would head up to the headquarters, which at the time were in New Jersey, and we would do staff training events. So at the start of the summer, when it was going to be a very busy year at the time of the year, we would all head up to the New Jersey office and do a staff orientation week to prepare ourselves for the summer. We would do a regional one for the spring and the fall autumn season. So the things that I enjoyed about this and how you can implement this into your business is that if you have staff, it's really good every so often to provide feedback on their training or how they're doing. That way, they can continuously learn from you, you're providing value to them as a coach, and they are developing when at your company. Now, if you're a coach that runs a business by yourself, you might be thinking, right, well, I can't really evaluate myself every now and again. But the truth is, well, you can, you can sit down and analyze your training sessions. What did I do well? What did I do well? And you can improve that way. But also attending BD events or CBD events in your local area. It might be through your local football association. It might be through your club that you might be coaching at or just other events within your area that are football soccer related events that you can go to improve, not just as a coach, but also as a business owner. Because I feel that a lot of the time coaches, they spend a lot of time improving their coaching skills, but they don't spend enough time developing their business skills, which, if you are a business owner, you need to develop on a daily basis to get better at the game of business. So that was the first lesson. And the first thing I really enjoyed about working for UK League was the CBD events, right, the professional development events, coach professional development events that we used to have at the company. And these are things that you can implement with your staff.  Now, the second thing that we did really well at the company were we built partnerships with Rec departments. So a lot of the camps, the clinics that we used to run in our area were with or in partnership with recreational departments. So the state I was in were at the time was was in Maryland. And what we used to do, we used to partner up with our local Rec departments, and we used to run weekly coaching clinics for players or parents that want soccer within that area. So Monday to Friday, we used to do clinics or camps, well, clinics in that area. And then when it got to the summer, we used to do holiday camps in partnership with that department.  So as I mentioned, we worked with the majority of the departments within the Baltimore, Maryland area, and we used to run weekly clinics. We used to do camp events. We also used to do recreational summer leagues as well for them. So we used to work in partnership with them. And the reason why they wanted to work with us, because they saw us as the experts in what we do. So if you want to work within an organization, a Rec department, a local school, a local club, you've got to add value to their program, but also you've got to demonstrate that you are the expert at what you do and that you provide something that they can't or you're solving a problem for them. So that was the second one. We built a lot of local community partnerships with organizations, air clubs, that helped us to grow and scale within that region. Now the third one is we offered multiple services. So we didn't just offer one type of service. We had multiple services that we offered throughout the year and depending on the season. So for example, in the spring, we used to run clinics for toddlers, which was three to five. Then we used to do weekly clinics for kids that were older. We used to call them YDP events. And then we used to do events at local clubs. So we had a lot of multiple services that we were offering depending on what season it was. We used to do clinics. Then in the summer, we used to run summer leagues or summer teams. We used to run summer camps. So we constantly offered a variety of services to parents in the local area so that they could work with us and do business with us. We didn't just restrict ourselves to clinics or camps. We offered multiple services that essentially meant we could work with more parents. We weren't just restricted to one service. So as a coach and a trainer, you might want to look to do the same. So if you're currently only doing one to one training, what's another service that I can offer so that I can maybe transition into groups or transition into another type of service where I can attract parents that want something else and that don't just want one-to-one training. So that was the third one. The fourth one is we essentially became experts in the space that we were in. So as we grew region by region, clubs, local rec departments, youth associations, even global companies wanted to do business with us because we were the experts at what we did. Something that we were really good in our region is we used to work with full-only clubs. So for those that aren't in the United States, full-only clubs are essentially clubs that run or that play in the autumn or the fall season. So they'll play in the autumn and fall and then typically players in those teams, what they do in the spring, they go and play another sport. So a lot of players in these teams, they either do lacrosse or soccer. So they'll do lacrosse in the spring, soccer in the fall, or they might do basketball in the spring, soccer in the fall, or vice versa. So these were players that were committed in some sense, but they weren't all year round soccer players. But what we did really well is we used to go into these clubs and offer our services to their teams because a lot of the teams were coached by volunteer parents. So we added a lot of value to the parents because we pretty much took over the training, we took over the coaching development for that club, and we became experts in what we do best, which is soccer coaching and soccer training. So that is something that you can do in your business as well. You can become that expert in your space, in your field, so that you can build those partnerships with local organisations and local clubs, such as four lonely clubs. Or if you're in another part of the world, maybe in the UK, there's a lot of clubs that are run by parent volunteers. So parent volunteers run these teams. So you can come in and demonstrate your expertise and work with certain teams within that club. So become an expert at what you do. Now the fifth one was strategic partnerships. So something the company did really well, and this was in various regions, is they bought out smaller clubs or smaller companies. So it grew the client base. So I remember at the time there was a couple of smaller companies based out in New York, which UK Elite bought out. So they'd go in, take over the company, buy them out, and essentially that company then became UK Elite and rebranded to our company. Now that was very strategic because again, if you're taking over a small company that maybe has a client base of about 100 or 200 clients or customers, that's an extra 200, 300 customers that are coming into your company. So building strategic partnerships or strategic purchases can be a way for you to grow your business. Now if you're by yourself, you're a sole business owner, you're running one-to-one, you're running small group sessions, then you might be thinking, right, well, how can I do that with my business? You can do that by collaborating with other trainers in your local area.  So that would be a strategic way of growing and expanding your business. So a number of ways that you can grow, these are essentially the lessons that I took from working at UK League Soccer. Hopefully this video helps you. It's more of an educational video, but there's a lot of little nuggets that I've shared with you today that you can go and implement into your business even if you are just running one-to-one sessions. A lot of the lessons that I've shared with you today, you can take them, implement them and grow and scale your business. So if you want more help, visit the description below, number of ways that I can help you with your soccer training business. Thank you for watching and make sure you subscribe to stay up to date with all my latest content.


This study assessed the quality of private sector TB care in Nigeria by comparing it to public sector care. The study found that while private sector providers did not perform better than public sector providers overall, they did demonstrate comparable levels of performance in certain areas such as screening for TB symptoms. Additionally, the study identified specific areas where private sector providers could improve their TB care, including collecting sputum samples from presumptive cases and providing adequate counseling during treatment initiation. These findings suggest that private sector providers are capable of playing a significant role in improving TB care in Nigeria.


Hey freedom what's up my name is Nolden welcome to freedom central the home of all freedom content on today's episode Let's talk about a few things that you will need to know before you do your shoots or your production phase But before we do that guys, you know what to do like subscribe and go on that belt Let's dive in out to the episode of freedom quick tips Number one thing that you will need to do is plan your video content when we say planning you have to have your goal It is what kind of video you want your viewers to see is it a drama video Comedy skit or maybe a dialogue heavy video You have to plan these things ahead of time so that you can also plan ahead with your shots Now we're talking about shot placements. Let's talk about the storyboard Since we are talking about shots Storyboarding is one of the best ways for you to clearly see what you want to do in the video Also, it gives you a guide and sequence on what to shoot next It makes the production process more organized and you can save time and also energy Another thing that you will need to remember is to plan your equipment One of the most crucial things you will need to take into consideration Number two is pick a good location and shoot in a good background The background on where you choose your shoot is everything because it will tell your audience where you are And what kind of environment you are in the environment in your videos provides the accent And it reinforces the thought of what you want to portray one of the most crucial things You will need to take into consideration number two is pick a good location and shoot in a good background The background on where you choose your shoot is everything because it will tell your audience where you are And what kind of environment you are in the environment in your videos provides the accent And it reinforces the thought of what you want to portray number three is make do with what you have If you only have a portable camera, that is fine If you have only your camera phone, that is fine as well You don't need to buy new equipment before you do your shoots You have to learn how to do it first so that when you decide to buy a new piece of equipment You will know exactly how to use it and what you are going to use it for number four avoid using your camera's microphone I tell you this now Camera microphones are fine and all when you don't have a dedicated microphone for your shoots But as soon as you have the funds to buy a good microphone You will be able to help yourself and your production even more Sometimes the mic in your camera has static noises and trust me when I say this It's so hard to clean out the audio after that So if you have the funds dedicate a microphone for your audio And that's the episode freedom Let us know down below if you have missed some things out before you leave guys Please leave a like subscribe and gong that bell My name is an old guys bringing you tips on how to grow your channel always remember freedom quick tips I'm going to be seeing you in the next episode. Goodbye


As Nigerians decry the biting economic situation in the country, federal government promises to double government's revenue without imposing extra tax. Following the trend of attempts at Guinness World Record, we will be looking at the physical toll of breaking a world record on the human body this morning on the show. And of course we'll be lifting some headlines off the press as we look at the headlines on some of our national dailies. A very good morning to you and thanks for joining us on the breakfast. My name is Nyam Gul Agadji. Today we are going to be looking at so many very important topics of discussion but we'd like you to remember the theme of discussion this morning. We'll have as our team or we have as our team that we can't all follow the same path. We can't all follow the same path. That's what will be at the back of our minds today as we are talking to you this morning. Trends have a way of sweeping everyone into behaving in the same way. And for instance when a new app takes over our interest we can't wait to be among the first to sign up. And we have to remember also that conforming to how others think limits creativity. So you have to think for yourself. Sometimes they say think outside the box. And some people say you shouldn't even consider a box being around. Just think. Think. Everyone wants to jump on the latest trend like trying to break a world record. And let me just state this. Do you know that Nigeria we have at least 41 people that have broken world records or have set world records before including our very own fella Nikola Kuti. Do you know that Stephen Keshie also broke a world record being the youngest player to win the African cup of nation as a player and as a coach. Some of these people didn't even attempt to break the record but they broke it anyway. They were just doing their thing and they got recognized because they did it exceptionally well. So at least 41 people have broken or set records in Nigeria. But I don't know why it's the sudden craze. Yeah after Hilda Basi broke her own world record everybody wants to cook. Everybody wants to even cry. Everybody wants to do one thing or the other. Well just that just takes us to the trending topics for this morning. Some of these topics that we'll be talking about a topic like for instance Legos Legos runway light stolen and seven people have been suspended Legos runway light stolen and seven people have been suspended. Yeah unknown persons have allegedly cut it away the recently reinstalled airfield light system at the domestic runway 1836L of Murtala Mohammed Airport. The disappearance of the approach lighting system have now raised security concerns in Nigeria's busiest airport. The perpetrators of the theft of the lighting system apparently took advantage of the closure of the runway for over three months. Some heads of relevant departments at Farn have been suspended over the missing lighting equipment on the directive of the permanent secretary of the ministry of aviation. Dr. Manuel Mary Boley is one of them. Investigations have since commenced and regular incursions and theft of safety components at the airport are carried out by a syndicate allegedly consisting of some workers of the agencies who have access to the restricted areas and accomplices from outside. So the Federal Airport Authority of Nigeria fine managing director Mr. Kabil Yusuf has also ordered the suspension of security personnel who were in charge of guarding critical airports facilities. We also heard very disturbing news from a bonus not from a bonus from the second Niger bridge in Onitsha that some people are already stealing some some iron binders and so many other things that hold the bridge together just a few days after commissioning of that bridge that everybody was applauding the government because it will ease traffic on that road and a lot of other things will will go smoothly because of that bridge. Nigerians because I'm not I'm not seeing another person coming from another country to do that Nigerians themselves are stealing some of the things that will make the bridge to standard tests of time which means maybe in the next three years the the bridge could be rendered useless because of vandals. We've seen cases where people steal some of these things on the rail lines and they don't care if trains come there the derail they the accident claims maybe a hundred lives they don't even care so long as they're making the money and you say it's because the country is hard how hard can it be for you to just wish death on hundreds and hundreds of people to wish that people cannot commute anymore on what the government has provided and every day we rise up and say the government is doing nothing yet when the government does something we are the ones that just go ahead and in fact sometimes witchcraft does not wait till night before it is practiced so if you're doing some of the things that are being done here in Nigeria you could just be a witch as well but you are not flying in the night that's just a difference like they say not all heroes we are kept so not all witches fly why would you be stealing things from a place that you know it can cause accident and kill a lot of people why would you be stealing things from a place where you know that the livelihood of a lot of people depends on that why anyway well we also had the news that governor Akira Dulu is hospitalized he handed over power to the deputy governor a few days ago and went on medical vacation as it is and a few days ago he wrote again and extended that vacation indefinitely because he needs to get himself really healthy before coming back and the chairman of apc abdulahi adamu claimed that the governor rotimi akira akira dulu he is who is currently on indefinite medical leave abroad is incapacitated said to abdulahi had disclosed on monday july 10 that the ailing governor of undose state rotimi akira dulu is not capable of carrying out his duties as a governor anymore adamu revealed this during a meeting between the national leadership of the party and apc state chairman in abuja it keeps happening that the apc chairman makes some comments that a lot of people say are not true or they are really very disturbing the meeting was held hours after akira dulu wrote to undose state house of assembly to extend his medical leave abroad indefinitely which is understandable if his health is failing him reactions to these or reacting rather to these undose state commissioner for information and orientation bhabi dili ademola olate ju stated that the apc national chairman was quoted out of context okay he said he had wished akira dulu well and said people should pray for him and all that so why if he was taken out of context there were people who were at the meeting who came out and also said refuted that and said that okay whatever he said is not true akira dulu is still in fact that he still sent a post on the was it a whatsapp group or the group the executive group of undose state so wherever he is he's even still working i think that shouldn't be because if you hand over power to your deputy you should leave him the reins of leadership to do whatever he needs to do and you relax the whole thing about going on leave whether medical or just a personal leave is for you to relax so let the person that you're handing over to do the work that you should have done if you were around but this is it there's that conflict adamu has said that he's incapacitated even though they say he was quoted out of context but i saw the quote that he said even though the only difference was that when this claim was refuted by the undose state leadership of the apc they said he didn't say he was extremely incapacitated that was the only word that i didn't see there but everything else almost checked out now we have seen the apc chairman make some statements we remember when it happened during the primaries of the apc he brought a candidate and said that was the anointed candidate he brought an opera we have also seen the apc when he was talking about the national assembly leadership and he said that was just a rumor it wasn't anything to go by right now the principal officers are still there and everybody seemed to be fighting against him that okay we support these people and we don't know why you're saying what you're saying the president was in the law the governors were in the know so many other chief tens of the apc were in the know and you are the one who is saying this is a rumor well today the principal officers still stand nothing has been said by the apc and that means adamu was on his own now he said the undose state governor was incapacitated and the undose state apc the government of undose state has said it is not true undose state governor is still within his faculties he's still very alert he is not somebody that you can see he's incapacitated because he's still contributing to the growth of undose state wherever he may be so we really do not know why this always comes from the apc national chairman maybe is there conflict within the party in the coming days maybe we'll have to find out why these things happen and why if it keeps happening like that there's nothing being said by the nwc of the apc can the chairman not be sanctioned as well if somebody else were making these statements would it be the same thing well we'll have to find out maybe one of these days if we have the opportunity to talk with an apc chieftain maybe at the national level but yeah as our our show continues right now but first of all we are going to take a very very short break maybe there's something on the weather or not but what after that break we'll go to the headlines on our national dailies stay with us


Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining episode three of Informed and Engaged. The journalism team at Knight Foundation is committed to providing journalists with the resources to serve their communities and produce journalism in the public interest. We are also here to help address the important questions being asked today about our industry. Today our guests on Informed and Engaged will talk about the role of journalism in journalists in upholding and dismantling systemic racism. We'll look at how the Black Lives Matter movement has inspired conversations in communities across the country and inside newsrooms. As we often try to do at night, we are dedicating the space to crank discussion driven by journalists. And with that, I'd like to introduce Knight Foundation's Director of Journalism, Karen Runlet. Jennifer, thank you so much. I'm very excited about this episode. We've invited four journalists to take the conversation where they will. Right now in the U.S., this moment is being described as America's reckoning with racism. And this cultural shift is inspiring brutally honest conversations in the homes of immigrants about anti-Black racism within their own communities. Today we ask allies or accomplices. Here now are Karen Atia, Global Opinions Editor at The Washington Post, Karen Kay Ho, Global Finance Reporter at Quartz, Fabiola Santiago, Columnist at the Miami Herald, and our moderator, Tanzina Vega, host of The Takeaway. Tanzina. Hi, everyone. Hello to my Karen panel and Fabiola. That's how we'll be talking about this. Thanks so much for joining all of us today. I'm really excited to be here. We got a lot of reckoning to do on today's show. So why don't we dive right in? Let's kick it off with this Miami Herald op-ed that had many, many signatories, all of whom were Latinos, writing about how they support Black Lives Matter. Now this is something in terms of reckoning that I think kind of a lot of us experience in our own communities where, and I would like to broaden the descriptor of immigrant to really include community of color, people of color, because I don't think immigrants in and of themselves have, I just was a little concerned about the framing, right? Is it immigrants that are reckoning with anti-Blackness, or is it communities of color more broadly in this country that are reckoning with anti-Blackness? And I would say some of it is both. Karen, you have a lot of, Karen, Atia, I have to make sure we're clear here. You have a lot of thoughts on this particularly. So give us a sense. You're saying that immigrant communities are reckoning with race, how? Yeah, so I guess I'll be super, super specific because I think that these conversations could deal with a level of specificity that often get missed in our discourse. So I'm speaking from a background of being in the African immigrant community, specifically Nigerian, Ghanaian immigrant community, my family, my parents came from there decades ago. And so when we were talking about these layers of sort of respectability politics, assimilation, how do you, even my name, gosh, Karen. We're going to talk about that too. Yeah, yeah, you know, all of these markers, right, of what it means to come to this country and try to fit into this society and move up. And so I think that they're, you know, and I've been honest about this, I think it's time for this reckoning that for so many black immigrants, African, West Indian from the Caribbean, there's this sense that, well, you know, if you just work hard, if you just go to the right schools, if you engage in enter professions like doctor, lawyer, engineer, not always necessarily because people have some sort of innate talent or passion for it, but often because those are the highest paid or high paid positions. And in this capitalist society to gain acceptance, if you are well paid, then maybe you're, you can put yourself at a distance from blackness and as it's defined in America. And I think right now it's what's happening. I mean, I see this firsthand literally with my parents and with friends who are my age, people who are my age who are dealing with their relatives. It's coming to this rude awakening about what it means to be black in America. In this country. In this country. Again, and, you know, we could go for hours about this, you know, black in America does not speak for being black around the world, obviously. And we're seeing these reckonings with anti-blackness, decolonization, frankly, white supremacy and how it's manifested in different places around the world, according to local context. But here in this country, yeah, my parents, you know, they're like, we weren't black until we got here. We were just, we were just greats. We were just guys. We were, you know, affiliated with certain ethnic groups. But when you came here, when they came here, they were black. And being black comes with a price, a heavy price. And I, and I think it does come with a price. And I think you're also, Karen, describing somewhat of the layers of classism also that are involved in that conversation. I hear a lot, the op-ed that we're referencing in the Miami Herald, specifically, Fabiola, I'd love to hear, you know, what you think about this, because I kind of had mixed feelings about it. I think it's time for a reckoning among Latinos of anti-blackness for sure. Our media reflects anti-blackness. Our communities often reflect anti-blackness.  And for a lot of us here, our, we are, we consider ourselves part of the black diaspora. And we also have great proximity, both culturally and racially to blackness. So there's sort of a, I don't think everyone subscribes to this idea that they want to be closer to whiteness, necessarily. I think there are lots of Latinos I know who affirm their blackness. But we are in a moment of sort of reckoning with that. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I don't, I sort of, I have mixed feelings about the fact that we all want to be white. Well, you know, Miami is an interesting city. It is a unique, a very unique city. 70% of the population here is Hispanic. And most of the largest number from that percentage is Cuban American. And then within the Cuban Americans, there are the recent arrivals. There are the, you know, 90s arrivals, the 80s arrivals.  And, you know, the belief system is diverse, is diverse. I like the way that we started with the, let's be specific, right? Because one of the issues that often comes up is the generalization of an entire community. One of the things that we grapple with in the conversations is when someone who, you know, is, I, for example, I've seen journalists that I respect that will say, oh, the Cubans in Miami, blah, blah, blah. Well, not all the Cubans in Miami are like that. We can't agree on a whole lot of things. So, but I think that what is most, if I say, if there is a trend, I would say it is about ignorance. It's about not even recognizing the racism, right? And we have to first own it to then do something about it. And that has been, I think, one of the blind spots in this community because we feel comfortable in our cocoon. We feel comfortable in our multiculturalism.  And it has to do not just with, it's not something that is only something that is an ill in the Cuban community, but it is in other Latin American communities and it is even in the African American community, right? That what I've experienced in years and years of reporting is that every time I went into a community, once they got comfortable with me, they were able to voice all sorts of prejudices that they had. And there were wonderful conversations for the most part, but I had to get through a lot of layers of misconceptions. And in my case specifically, I have, when I came to this country in 1969 as a 10-year-old, the elementary school that I went into had just been integrated. So both me and the new kids in the school that were from Liberty City, right? African Americans from Liberty City were both new. And I learned English through, and by the way, you're gonna think this is out of this world coincidence, but I, the girl that used to sit next to me, her name was Karen. And she was, she was, I- We did it on the panel, Fabiola. And we sort of bonded through our love for Dark Shadows, this soap opera. And I told her about the Spanish soap operas, and she told me about the American soap operas. And- So there was a cross-cultural exchange that you had with Karen.  So my introduction to America immediately included blackness, right? Like, you know, half the kids in my class were Cuban white, and then there was another half that was black. I think that what you're describing, Fabiola, does resonate for, again, and that's why I mentioned the specificity of saying where I'm from, being from New York City, what type of community I grew up in, who my background is, you know, because those things, those cultural and racial proximity, sometimes we're not even aware that we are part of the larger pan-African and black diaspora, specifically if we're from the Caribbean. Karen Ho, you talk a lot about this specificity issue. Tell us what it means for you when you're talking about being specific and sort of dismantling the monolith that is, I'm sure you deal with this too, Asian Americans. I think it comes from the fact that, like, I'm not an American person. I grew up in Canada. So even when I was lumped into talking about and started to report in American news outlets, and people would say, they would use the term Asian American, I would clarify and say, I don't know what it's like to grow up in America. I don't know what it's like to consume only American pop culture. And just like Karen and Tia, like I think it's really important to specify, even when I went to graduate school in New York City, and I would make casual jokes, like I'm a Chinese international student in the way that people don't think of Chinese international students. Going back to what other Karen said, I think talking about how communities that are under these huge umbrella terms aren't monolithic is really important in terms of, like we said, education, income, life experiences, you know, resources available, even in terms of global perspectives, how often people travel, what their experience is like if they're their first or second generation. Because I think even in terms of what we've seen in news and coverage regarding Asian America, like I think an Asian Americans experience with anti-blackness is very different when you are Vietnamese, if you're a first generation Asian, like Chinese American, or if you say grew up in Koreatown and your parents experience, you know, the LA riots, like I think those experiences are very, very different, even in terms of your cultural understanding of anti-blackness in America. So that just comes from my own experiences, especially with the American immigration system and identities. And then I think it really goes back to what Fabiola was saying, you know, I think it's really looking at these huge populations and saying, how can you make these broad statements? Just like in the way that white Americans have said that they don't like being generalized, especially when they come from a specific county or state, you know, like we all belong to groups where we don't like to be generalized. And I think that's why in this discussion regarding anti-blackness, I think it's really important to bring it up in terms of specific, you know, like how are you contextualizing, whether it be a historical reference or, you know, like the interaction, you know, like we haven't even gone into, like I read a lot about geopolitics and what is going on with Chinese investment in African countries. So I think like those kinds of things you have to, like it is our jobs as journalists to provide this kind of context and say where does it come from? How is it different? What are the business interests or historical interests involved? How does colonialism play a role? You know, like all of those things, you know, like even the type of Chinese that I am is my parents are from Hong Kong. So they have British colonial history and that's very different than mainland Chinese history or rural history. And Canada is another, you know, British colony. So it's like, it has lots of layers. And an experience of a Chinese person growing up in a small white town is very different than New York City, like Queens, like a Chinese person growing up in Queens is very different than LA or if they grew up in Richmond, Virginia, like Constance Wu. So I think that's very important in how we're also talking about this moment and even how different groups of Asian Americans are even talking to their parents about anti-blackness, like where are those parents coming from? And the more that we can be specific, the more we can ground these stories in identifying what also makes them different and also what are those lessons that are broadly applicable to a lot of different people. I mean, my family is from Puerto Rico and I recall during Hurricane Maria and prior the economic crisis, having to explain that Puerto Rico is not a state, it is a colony of the United States but its citizens are American citizens. I mean, this is basic information and this was not available in the broader context. At least people weren't understanding it that way and it was pretty shocking. Speaking of reckonings and race and newsrooms, Karen Atia has brought some news to the fore today with a little ward called a Pulitzer and I'd love for us to talk a little bit about that because I've shaken some trees when it comes to newsroom diversity in the past and this is not something that has gone away. In fact, it is, I would say we are really reckoning now. I mean, with the stories that are coming out, I'm sure all of us has a story right now that we could tell about something bizarre that's happened to us in a newsroom. We're all women of color, we're all sitting here. I don't think I've ever had a panel that looked like this and the person that was putting this together said this should have been Mount Rushmore and I was like, this should be what your executive suite looks like, frankly, if you're looking for real newsroom diversity. But that's really sad too. I'm joking, but it's actually really sad and Karen, your experience with this is not, you edited Jamal Khashoggi and what happened? You were left out of a Pulitzer nomination. How does that happen? Well, you would have to ask in some ways what was going through leadership's mind and I think, let's just be real, I think that part of the tax of being particularly a black woman in this world, in the society and any workplace is not a mean from that. It can mean that you are, and I've said this before, you are invisible and yet hyper-visible at the same time. So it means that it can really literally mean they just don't think about you, right? Until they have to think about you.  And I said this on Twitter a couple of hours ago, I've never done what I do for awards. I mean, I think they're nice, they're great to have, but I'm motivated more so by the prospect for change and for justice. And so that's what was motivating me to do what I did with Jamal and trying to bring attention to this case. And I was aware, I guess we're here to be real, right? So I'm just gonna be real, I knew as a young black woman in a position where I'm dealing with a story that is pertaining to the Middle East, which is pertaining to national security types and you see very often white, older men, because the Middle East is so tough, it's so dangerous, that's where real journalists go, that's where it's hazardous, right? And there's so much to be said about kind of like Orientalism, I believe it was Edward Said, who said, the Middle East is a career. And I realized, even dealing with Jamal, that I don't look the type dealing with Saudi Arabia, these authoritarian states, I don't look the type like a foreign correspondent. I literally had a, you're not at the post, but another editor say, oh, well, dealing with Jamal, did you ask your foreign correspondents for help while you were editing him? And I'm like, what, like, no, I was a foreign correspondent, believe it or not, right?  But okay, but I'm tired of walking around with my resume. I know me too. Karen, Ho, Fabiola, are you tired of walking around with your, because I swear I used to recite it and all the awards and all the, I'm sick of it.  I don't know, is it just me? Yeah, yeah, it's exhausting. You know, I've been writing for 40 years. It'll be this, this is my 40th anniversary at the Miami Herald. And I've lived through many, many stages of, of it in both, you know, ignorance and then lots of genuine attempts to get the community to be represented in our newsroom. And the problem is that nothing is sustained. So that you have people coming in and out. You know, it's a revolving door of minority journalists, right? And that in a community like Miami is, is just devastating sometimes to coverage of issues in depth. We're very good about the breaking news story. We're very good about the investigations, but the things that, you know, the things that I think bring a community together are the kinds of journalism that we did do during a period of, you know, reckoning that we also had through the various, you know, incidents in Miami of police, police brutality. And specifically also with the Cuban community during the Allianz Saga, you know, we, I, one of the things that I tried to do was specialize in that kind of explainer piece, right? Where you, for example, enlighten people as to why calling Miami a banana republic is a slur. Or whether is there a problem between Hispanic officers and black communities? All of those, all of those issues are issues that need to be looked at in a different way, not just in the coverage of the shooting, not just in the coverage of the event of a child plucked from his home and, you know, and returned to his father. The context is always very important. The understanding of, you know, of the cultures involved deeply are very important. So we've had really good times. I think the Miami Herald is a newspaper that covers those things very, very well. But I think we are missing on the race front. And right now they just posted a job for a reporter that will delve into the race topic because we lost, you know, this is what happens, what I was gonna get to the point of tokenism, right? That the thing is that we have, you know, we look at reporters, minority reporters as tokens. If we have one of them, then that's diversity. And that isn't the case. It isn't the case by far. And so we always come up short. And another thing that has impacted, I think, the coverage is the economics, right? The failure of the newspaper model. And those are the stories that have fallen behind. Everyone is gonna go for the breaking news. That's what's read.  And then the pieces that take the longest time, which are the ones where you, you know, you build relationships with sources, those are being left out of the conversation, have been left out of the conversation. Right, and those take a lot of time. And Karen, Atea, I know that you said, you know, you're not in it for awards. I think a lot of us would agree, we do this job. We don't do it for the money or for the awards, right? We do it because there's something bigger that we wanna get to, right? We really wanna tell stories. But let's be honest, if we're being honest, a Pulitzer is something that would be a huge boon to anyone's career to have that. And whether it's a Pulitzer and Edward R. Murrow Award, we can go down the list, the Emmys, you know, whatever. So I do think it's important to have that Karen Ho, I'm wondering when you see the landscape right now and you see this sort of the stories that journalists of color are telling about having worked in their newsroom, when you hear about Karen doing all that work and not having her own name submitted to the Pulitzer board, what are you take away from that? I mean, are you encouraged to seek after these awards? Are you encouraged to keep doing your thing? What do you think, what are you taking away from this as you're watching it? So it speaks to the point of my career. A, like no one can tell how old I am because of my skin. I learned a lot from the black community about the importance of moisturizing and I think that's really important. Every day sunscreen. But it is, like people can't tell how old I am and so there's this conversation regarding, like I'm in a situation where I think about like having children in my point of my career and also about like what is the next step when you move from the end of early career towards like are you gonna look at management? What kind of awards are you gonna do these jobs that are long-term projects? And I think the really difficult thing right now is that with all of these stories, is it's really up to us, like the really sad realization that if we are gonna be nominated for awards, it's just going to be us nominating ourselves. We cannot wait for other people to do it for us. The thing that has been interesting about all of these new roles that Fabiola brought up and that we've seen that Shani O'Hill was on the record about turning down was just the failure to incorporate race into everyday jobs. So like I don't explicitly cover race, but I have written a lot about race and economics in the last two weeks, specifically talking to a lot of black economists. And I just think it isn't normalized for people who are, if you wanna do the work, I was talking about this, with Karen Runlet, like I think it's very important to do the work of being a real ally in the newsroom. Like if you care about your black colleagues, make it so that they're not the only people in the newsroom thinking about these issues, thinking about who their sources are, who is getting promoted, who is getting nominated for awards. It's very sad that like none of us can do it all, right? Like it's not fair for the people on this panel to be role models in investigative, in opinions, in radio, in all of these different beats that clearly need our voices. We know that like in business and econ, there also isn't a lot of diversity. And I briefly tried, you know, feature reporting. I also tried entertainment reporting, which also has a lot of diversity issues. So it's like in each of us in our lanes doing that work, we are all very proudly supportive of each other. But also I think it's, I'm always mindful of how important it is for me in whatever I'm doing and wherever my career goes, that I'm setting a path for it that saying what I went through isn't acceptable for the younger journalists coming up behind me and my peers. So I think in saying why it needs to change and being really clear about that, I think it's important we are in a moment. I'm really, really curious about how this moment is going to be used, if it's going to be seen as like how the leadership is going to be held accountable. You know, I think, and that includes industry magazines and publications, tracking diversity reports and, you know, advertising and all that stuff. But I think it's going to be really interesting going forward and I think if they're not holding themselves accountable, they will always be women like us holding them accountable. And I think that's something hopefully they know is going to happen. And with that, I'm going to throw it to the other Karen, Karen Rundlund. Thank you. You know, Fabiola, I wanted to follow up with you on one question. You had written a column that received incredible engagement and the headline was you didn't wear a damn mask and were back to record COVID numbers in Florida. And you said that that's the kind of headline and column that receives great leadership and engagement.  Would you sort of address what you think about that? Yeah, it's very frustrating for me because I have throughout my entire career written about issues of race in different ways, right? In whichever way the Herald was shaped. I once had something called the Minority Affairs Beat, right? In which it lumped everyone together on every topic that you can imagine under that beat. And so I got the opportunity to cover the Black community which was to me an incredibly important job in it by itself. And of course, I did get the feedback of like, what are you doing here, right? It's not your role to be here. And by the way, my editor at that time was Sydney Trent of the Washington Post. And so we did good work together. And then I've moved on through many, many, many jobs in writing because I do think that we should develop ourselves, right? And that we should live a good life. And so when the Miami art scene began to be the thing, I moved into the visual arts. I was a visual arts writer. I've written a food culture column. I've done a million things. But specifically now with my column writing, right? When I started writing a column, the Herald does have Leonard Pitts who's an amazing writer, Pulitzer winner. It has Carl Hies and it has all the other voices in the community that do write and are invited to write constantly op-eds. But I felt that as the local columnist, right? The person who lives in Miami and lives here and that I had to incorporate everyone. And I did. So I ended up like, for example, writing about these black men, young men, who were minding their own business. And one was a realtor. The other one was a PhD student at St. Thomas University. And the realtor was sitting in front of a house chatting with a friend before he was going to a football game. And when police officers decided that he fit the description of what were they doing of some robbery that had occurred and was plucked out of the car and we had all the video cam and all that from the officer's cam. And then the PhD professor, I mean, a student, was, he was just driving. The police officer thought he had committed an infraction and he ended up on the ground with a gun pointed at his head, right? Even though he had done the, and everything right. So I wrote that column, I interviewed the two men, I took their photos, I looked deeply. And of course, what did they have in common? They hadn't come in the same cop, right? Then they, the two did not know each other and they had met online through, in social media when they realized what had happened to them had happened with the same cop. And I had really high hopes for that column. I had high hopes for a readership and for engagement with it. And it just flew under the radar. And all the technology to make that column work was, what I do with every column was done with that column, right? So you have to, once you take away from the formula, once you take away from the formula, well, what didn't go right, right? I think what is left behind, this is the same thing that happened to me early on of what is she doing here, writing about this, right? Why is she doing it? Why is a Cuban American columnist writing about a black issue? The same thing with the Trayvon Martin trial and with the Trayvon Martin case. I wrote about that. I was the first columnist to write about it when I saw a brief in the Orlando Sun Sentinel, about a 17-year-old from Miami Gardens being shot in the community in which he was a visitor. To me, it was a slam dunk, something's wrong and fishy here, right? Right, right. And so, and I wrote, those columns had better readership because of the high-profile nature of the case. So, there is, I think, there is the interest at some point when something is new, but again, and it's not just about race, it's also about profundity, right? When I write with, there was an issue here in the community with the Cuban Museum. And so, I took a lot of time to look into that issue very deeply. And again, something that was supposedly such a hot potato fizzles into less readership. And I think we have to, there's something out there that is right now a major stumbling block to our sort of cutting through and reaching people. And I think that's a bigger conversation for journalism to have about how do we get out there, things that really, really matter when people have their eyes on the mask, right? On the coronavirus and the mask. And then another day, it'll be whatever happened, whatever the scandal. And it's, I don't have the answers to that one because I've, you know, I like to find out where is it that I'm missing the connection? But, but you know, it troubles me that people aren't pausing to write things with more depth and are just focusing on the headline. Thank you, Fabi. I just wanted to bring up one or two more questions that are coming in. They're coming in from the audience. There are a couple of questions actually about ownership. And really what's the return on investment for media and journalism to change their approach on how they cover immigrants and race? So what is the question ownership? Karen Ho, are you able to take that?  It's like they have not just money to spend but they are deeply engaged. You know, they share, they share on multiple different social media platforms. Social media editors who are in the know, know about the power of your family forwarding you an article on WhatsApp and KakaoTalk and all of these other communities around the world. You know, I get news articles sent to me all the time. I think when Fabiola brought up engagement, I think it's really about when you have audience engagement staff and social media editors who are dialed into these communities and how they, how are you reaching them? Not just on Facebook or Twitter or all these traditional means. There's also about really thinking about what are the stories and the competitive advantage? The economics are like, if you are engaged in these communities, you will report stories that other competitors don't have. That's just the simplest thing, right? And these are, whether it be business, it's sometimes about sports, it's sometimes about economic development, it's about who is getting discriminated when they're trying to buy a home. You know, like all of these stories and huge issues. And these are the people who are like paying taxes and affecting how a community is evolving and growing. You know, the kids' struggles in schools, you know, like what is going on in these college towns? Like it affects life on an everyday basis. And if you're not thinking this sort of intersectional way about how communities of color are part of these communities at large, then you are missing out on a bigger picture. And if you're only continuing to focus on an affluent white or even working class white community, then you're missing a huge part of the picture in the way that the country is changing at large. And I think that's a really basic thing. It's just like, do you wanna do a good job in journalism by reflecting the way that the country is changing? And that involves really thinking about how these communities are changing themselves. And like when it goes from like a moral failing to an accuracy and like doing a plain good job of the central tenants and ethics of journalism, then we change the conversation a lot. Because I think too often diversity is seen as like a moral imperative, instead of like basic accuracy and business tenants. And I weigh in on that too. I'd love to, because I think to your point Karen, it is seen as a moral or lack of as a moral imperative, but I've actually had people say, well, this is hot right now, race is hot right now. So we gotta cover this and whatever you wanna pitch to me right now, we're open. And so that's how I've been able to get all these hot stories across newspapers and television. And then guess what? When it's not hot, it's gone, right? Which I've experienced too. So I think to answer the question of ownership, I mean, I covered the intersection of business and tech and all these things for the media desk at the times. And this was a question that we were reflecting on a decade ago about how to stay relevant at the New York Times. Now, the Times has now done the almost the impossible where their subscriptions are now floating a lot of the weight. There was a big question about would people pay for this, right? But they're the New York Times, so people are paying for it. And so kudos to them, they found a way to make it work. But traditionally, ownership relies on a couple of things. Advertisers who have deep pockets, who are willing to fund your journalism online, those dollars are not as, I guess the return on your investment online per dollar, per digital dollar just isn't the same as buying a print ad used to be. So the digital ad game is a struggle for a lot of up and coming outlets that are trying to reflect and trying to talk to communities of color and be owned by communities of color. So you've got an ad model and or a subscription model which is a tough buy, which is a tough sell if people are already oversubscribed to things like Hulu and Netflix and everything else that we're subscribing to. Then you have the model that's emerging now which is a nonprofit model, right? Which is how do we hook into a major nonprofit and hopefully get the dollars that we need to do the journalism that we want that's aligned with the mission of that nonprofit which we're starting, we see a lot of that with the Marshall Project and with ProPublica. Those models have been super successful but again, if the funding isn't there then what happens to the journalism, right? Or how much does the journalism affected by or influenced by the funding? So I don't want to turn this into a business school conversation but I think that I love the idea of ownership. It's just when you're talking to communities of color that have largely been lacking in so much capital. Generally speaking, we just don't have the capital to enter a lot of these conversations. It becomes tricky for us to really say we're gonna own something and with the closure, for example, when we looked at what happened Johnson Publishing, right? The preeminent publisher of Jet Magazine and all of these other black-owned media. We saw there was such a shift in what happened not being able to sustain then you had to include private equity in those conversations. So ownership is a great idea. It's just a much harder way I think to execute without having the dollars that you need to open the door. I could just add to that.  And so when you have structures that are replicating value systems of who is valuable, who it can be exploited, who can be used for their labor, who can be targets of abuse and harassment. It doesn't always necessarily mean that outlets that are owned by still usually men of color, black men, or at least the sort of symbolic level. It doesn't mean that things are always better, right? So I would say that. And then, you know, as far as in general, like the case, and I think it turns into that, like the case for diversity and it seems like every few years you're trying to make this case for diversity. And for some reason it's like, you know, all of a sudden it's... We have to... It's hot, it's hot. Well, yes and no, it's not. It's not that they're necessarily seeing it as vital to their mission, right? Diversity, as I've said before, I mean diversity means nothing without empowerment. And it means nothing if you have, you know, faces that will populate a brochure and make the people in the room as one of my professors from Northwestern a nice consumer boutique experience for the white people to feel and to signal that they have the people in the room but if there are no pathways for black people, people of color, particularly women of color to be able to advance, to be able to make those calls about coverage, to be able to even be able to go into communities into our own communities and come up with stories that are authentic, that are not just voyeuristic, that are not just helicoptering into the communities and saying, look at what the natives are doing, you know? And you can tell, you can tell when stories are coming from that authentic place. And so when, you know, most many of us are at white legacy media operations and that's the struggle even as you're writing, you're like, who is your audience? What does it mean for me to be a black woman writing for an audience that largely is white and affluent, older, male, I think for the post? And so these are like the questions that diversity doesn't go far enough. It doesn't go far enough. It's, we're looking at really challenging and transforming systems that have certain groups dominating that we're challenging hierarchies. You can have diversity all you want. Plantations had diversity but there was a hierarchy. I'm serious. Like there were differences, it's true. I mean, we just have to really, sometimes these buzzwords get thrown around. I agree. And, you know, and I think you don't think about what is it that we're really trying to get at to make these places safe for us to do the work that we want to do?  Why are we here? Who are we here to do this work? Who are we here to serve? This is a service profession, I would imagine. And sometimes I think, you know, we forget that that sometimes service doesn't always come with the big dollars. So in that sense, you know, it takes, I think it's a real reckoning, like not just of this sort of racial reckoning but I think we're questioning, who are we and what are we doing here? What is our role? And are we just neutral observers of our society as it's changing, moving? Or are we a force that's helping to shape that? And I think for those of us who are women, women of color, black women, we know the power of the media to shape what people think about us and about our communities. We can't afford this illusion of neutrality or this view from nowhere, right? Because we know that what we do is not neutral, it's never neutral. And so to a certain extent, it is an uncomfortable moment, I think, but it's a necessary one, as my mom said, you know, every cause has its time. And I just, you know, I think we just, this is a time to think, we're all sitting at home. Anyway, it's time for us to really think about what do we want? What do we want to be? Who do we want to be? And how does journalism, what changes do we need to make in order to make things better for each other and for those who are gonna come after us? So end of sermon. I think that's the perfect way to end the panel, actually. Oh, snap. Okay. I think you did it.  So Karen Atia is our Global Opinions Editor at The Washington Post. Karen Ho is Global Finance and Economics Reporter at Quartz and Fabiola Santiago is an award-winning columnist at the Miami Herald and I am Tanziana Vega and I am host of The Takeaway on WNYC and PRX. And this has been awesome. And until your C-suite looks like this, we got a lot of work to do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


We have another question. It's from a Nigerian living in South Africa. He writes, will my application be considered with those of South Africans or Nigerians? We're interested in is not necessarily what citizenship you have or what even what country you live in, but what country do you think that you will be making an impact in in the long run. If you're a citizen of Nigeria and you plan to make your life in South Africa, we'll be looking at your application, at your essay for how you will be making an impact in South Africa as the years go forward. If on the other hand you intend to return to Nigeria and make a difference there, we need to see in your application and in your essay that that's what your future plans are.