Hi Virgo, this is Kelly from House of Virgo here to do your full moon in Gemini reading for coming up on December 8th of this week, which will be Thursday and This full moon will be It's December 7th through the 8th, I believe the energies begin around 808 p.m. Pacific 11 o'8 p.m. Eastern so Virgo if you're new, please do put a like and a subscribe on the channel if you enjoy my readings and This is a Virgo channel for Virgo sun moon rising or Venus and as always some of the messages may or may not resonate Just take with Fitz leave the rest You don't have to be a Virgo Sun to enjoy the readings here if you have Virgo placement somewhere in your chart Obviously, you can always peruse and listen to the readings also There will be if you didn't see already in the beginning of this reading There is a discount that I am offering for the month of December holiday discount For a 45 minute reading only $99. Okay, so the link is in the description box below So if you would like to get a special reading or gift one to somebody gift one to a friend or someone Special in your life feel free to go over there check that out. Okay, and that will run through the month of December. All right, Virgo So let's get into your reading. So full moon in Gemini Right here Virgo the answer or the answers you need are coming Okay, so the full moon in Gemini is about speaking your truth Virgo But for you to also remember that words have consequences and impact your listener or listeners right now and Also during the process that are the energies that lead up to the full moon on the seventh and the eighth You need to guard against indiscretion The answers you need may come soon Virgo, but the issues you're facing may well be One of a few conversations away from being resolved. So this energy is all about resolution If there's someone a love interest in your life or a situation In regards to this full moon energy a little a little flirting Maybe called for okay, which means I just keep hearing don't try to take things too too seriously At this time, that's very much Gemini energy Keeping things light if you're in the middle of an argument Remember that the least said is the soonest method to resolving a conflict It's good to talk, but be careful. You aren't causing yourself any issues with your words They have enormous power your word is your wand Virgo You create magic and your own reality every time you express yourself So the moon's message at this time is to go ahead and have that important conversation Don't be superficial speak truthfully Someone may be trying to flirt with you. You may need to just laugh things off Not take it too seriously and move on Okay So what does that mean? It feels like there's some type of Conversation or a situation that needs to be addressed But at the same time I also feel like Take it real slow Virgo be discreet with the words that you choose and Try to keep things light-hearted because the alternative is That conversation comes about with someone and especially if you're trying to get answers About a situation if you are interrogating someone putting them under the heat lamp and Pressuring They're good. It's gonna have the opposite effect. So this full moon energy is stay in your truth Be honest be true to yourself Okay But also having that conversation seems to be very important and at some point I Feel like if you have something you need to say or something that needs to be resolved The best way for you to do that is to just go in very lightly And maybe just try to build a little rapport with the person so that person Doesn't feel put off and then runs away. Okay So yeah, go ahead and talk express yourself But be mindful that it's too easy to say too much. So choose your words carefully the full moon also can indicate an enjoyable social event and For anything you're considering studying or currently studying This is a time where you'll prosper and also job applications have good prospects at this time Okay, so the answers you need are they're in wait How you go about getting those answers are gonna make all the difference Okay, so Virgo, we're gonna get into a Celtic cross reading to see what the love messages are at this time as well in relation To the full moon and Gemini. Okay So what are the love messages for Virgo? Okay two cards flipped out make the effort and Love yourself first. Okay. Great. Love is worth taking the steps You've got it to take and your self-respect makes you more romantically attractive. So Virgo, I really feel like Loving yourself first. This is about your self-respect Don't put yourself under the heat lamp Virgo If you're going to interrogate someone that's backfiring If you have questions or things that you need to know make the effort to ask those questions But do it with great love. Okay? All right, let's get into this show us the past past energy the fool, okay? Innocence freedom originality adventure Aquarius energy. So it looks like in the past Maybe you felt foolish or someone felt foolish Or there was a lack of commitment Something happened. There was some type of new beginning with someone but there was also a lack of commitment as well Let me see here. Someone was very spontaneous Wanted their innocence wanted their freedom. They came in that way. They may have also walked away that way.  I don't know why I'm gonna clarify to see what that energy is but There does seem like there was fresh hope and someone taking a chance. There was a new adventure and a new beginning Hmm to pass a decision options planning Grass is always greener on the other side. You may have gotten involved with someone that saw you as the grass being greener Okay, they took a risk or they connected with you in the past But I feel like this person was on the fence not wanting to commit to something even if they were with you really not Embracing the energy of commitment. They were very detached in the past. Okay bit restless always standing at the crossroads Always kind of like at the starting gate and having another option not really committing to anything because The two of wands is a card of choice. This is also Aries energy. So it's like Okay, well free to make a choice I feel like some connection they had in the past was with someone who just did not cross that threshold And just kept themselves kind of like blown about by every wind really not steady Very much an exploring energy Not committing to anything might have been like someone who one minute decided to stay in the next minute decided to go and You know coming and going that kind of energy and also awaiting energy Do I take this risk or do I not do I take the plunge or do I not so it feels Unsettling it feels like an energy of something very unsettling in the past now the present here Wow, got the lovers. So this current energy here a major decision is being made All right, let me see It's also Gemini. Wow the challenges Well the obstacle I guess I should say more or less the block is the feelings I feel like there's hidden feelings someone has very deep hidden feelings for you could be a Pisces also Very deep hidden feelings But knows that they need to make a decision about the connection a major decision Major choice soul mates kindred spirit this person knows I mean, they're just I feel like somebody is really in love with you And I feel like this person knows and they're aware that You are their other half Okay, I don't understand Why it's difficult for this person to connect with their emotions. I do you feel like there's a bit of insecurity Going on with this person about this decision show us why Lisa Wands You know Virgo, I feel like you're connected with someone in the past.  There's something going on here where You know, it's interesting the lovers because it's a six There's something is giving me this energy of like loyalty and Feeling responsible and making a sacrifice Yeah, I feel like It's a choice. It's a decision. This person is making this decision They know they need to do it, but they're unsure if there can be growth This card says my personal value system Leads me to love Oh, they're personal value system you guys might have Excuse me Excuse me, you guys might have very different personal values Believe different things. Maybe you have different religions different moral upbringing different lifestyles and There's a little bit of doubt. I feel coming from this person That there can be growth a seed has been planted though You know, and there's something here about this person I mean, I feel like if they didn't feel like you were the person for them They wouldn't have stood on the fence for so long. There was something keeping them Their doubts and fears and insecurities about love. That's what it is I feel like a connection was made in the past a Seed was planted Okay, but it didn't really grow because there was a bit of inconsistency Consistency with another person here. Okay, and now it could be reversed. It could be you It could be them Or both of you But there was a lot of doubt, you know, they just told me moonflower. I just said moonflower Okay Yeah, I kind of feel like this person though is ready for to see the growth They're definitely in this position where They got to come out of hiding with that moon energy come out of their vagueness There was instability and a lot of anxiety and fear. There's misconception as well This person's subconscious energy is telling them That they need to make this decision that you are I do feel like they recognize your soul They recognize the connection That both of you were meant to be together that this was something that was true and real and right This is craziness. Really it is okay, so The present energy right now With this person is oh, they just told me June 18th present energy with this person right now is their Overcoming their fears to make a major decision about connecting and Having you as like their their soulmate their other person Okay, their partnership long-term relationship with you. This person very sexually attracted to you There might have been a physical connection with this person I See them They're realizing that How can I say this? That there are said that there really are shared values. I feel like this person might have been looking for reasons not to connect Because they wanted their freedom. They didn't want to commit. They wanted their freedom. But now I Don't what's making this change? Okay Nine of cups. Hmm. I feel like this person has been out there picking up hitchhikers and and this is just Saying it's I don't really feel like they've been doing that but I feel like they've been out there in the world taste testing so to speak and Nothing compares to you Okay, and I feel like this person this was part of their journey. They weren't ready Somebody was not ready to have that That sacred union with you At the time that there was a connection here Okay, and this has a lot to do with this new this full moon conversation because I feel like There's answers that Somebody here needs to have or wants to have or at least to resolve something Okay, and I do feel like there is going to be communication Currently or there's they're in this process. I don't know if they were hiding. There's an energy of like deception dreams Hiding But there was also a lot of illusion. I think this person Kind of viewed you as like a I don't know if it's a daydream or Like a fantasy of some sort But it's kind of like turning the fantasy into reality To have actual growth between the two of you.   And I feel like this person had a taste of you and I actually liked it But I feel like this person was very non-committal. They just For whatever reason wanted their freedom. They didn't want to commit. They didn't want to be held down They didn't want the responsibility or to make the sacrifice For a for a relationship This person was is always or was always totally fine taking chances taking risks Maybe they're a risk-taker Going on those adventures having those new beginnings But it's like a thrill seeker. I feel like this person a little bit of a thrill seeker, you know But the thrill is gone, baby. The thrill is gone And everybody else out there is not thrilling them. Are they coming back in for the thrill a little bit But also because they want something more here. Okay Show me what is driving this reading? What is driving? The root of this problem the root. Oh Something in this person's look. Sorry. Let's make it so you can see it something in this person's childhood for sure six of cups, okay Sagittarius Leo Scorpio, okay this person Issues from childhood childhood trauma Issues this all something started long before you came along okay The root of the problem also is that this person in order to have this growth with you is going to have to reconcile and and may even have to You know, I look at those two people there's children there And it just gives me this energy of like an apology bring you some flowers or bring you like a cheese steak I don't know if you're a guy whatever some food or do something To show a good kind of like a good faith effort It could be this person here making the effort as well Yes, so Virgo What happened in this person's childhood you might be a little bit older than this person as well Maybe by a few years What happened in their childhood? Wow No, love only money career This person I don't think they really learned how to love. I Feel like this person learned very early on that Education Career job and finances should come first before Love Yeah Yeah, I feel like this person was taught in their childhood You must be the best You must fulfill parents expectations. You must have excellent grades You must go on to the best college. You must do this for school.  They might have compared them to siblings older siblings Lack of love lack of kindness It's just all about the tangible and all about rewards This person learned that if they do a b or c they will be rewarded by their parents love Or they would be accepted by their parents if they could bring home the money or they could show Their worth that's awful. That's awful To have to seek validation from parents or Authority figures To not be loved unconditionally by parents. The parents are the only ones who should be loving unconditionally and Maybe your dog, you know, but to have to like go to the parents to get their love But the only way to get it is to show their gains Or to show look, this is how much money I'm making and so the parents would appreciate them Wow That's deep. That's super deep Very deep Virgo Taurus Capricorn Okay What's the possibility what possibilities can come out of this relationship? Wow Ace cups It absolutely is possible that there can be a new love start here with this person I feel like this person has learned some pretty heavy-duty lessons here because Perhaps they've made all the money they could make perhaps the parents are gone and they don't need their validation anymore or Perhaps they've just realized this has got me nothing. I've lost everything. Sure. I have my money. Sure. I have my degrees Sure, I have my financial gains But what point and what good is it to have all that if you don't have anyone to enjoy that with and that's what I feel Like is happening with this person I don't really feel like There was just this an avoidant thing this person might have also Come forward towards you to show you They're worse in order to gain your love and You Didn't need that and you appreciated them for who they were they took it wrong and thought you didn't love them because The message they learned was if I'm shiny and glistening and gold. That's the only way I can be loved And if you Virgo said no, I'll take you rusty I'll take you Oxidized I don't care. I love you anyway. I love you no matter what all your imperfections are perfect And this person was like, uh No, that's not how that works and I'm gonna leave I'm just gonna keep coming back and showing you in some way or form how Much I'm worth so that you will just have to accept it and this person felt like If you didn't accept that then you must view them as worthless And that wasn't the truth at all The truth here what I'm seeing is that you viewed them as priceless And that's not the same as worthless They didn't understand that because they don't feel that way about themselves so The possibilities the potential here The ace of cups new beginning new relationship a new romance Healing that is what the ace of cups always is Proposal marriage Yeah, it's a healing the cup overflow Water is healing even Even in some Christianity look at the communion, you know Giving you all of my hope All of my feelings surrendering Pisces corpio cancer energy An outpouring of love That's potential, but just remember Virgo that the aces Are always potentials It was a potential for this person in the past To get love and appreciation in their childhood Always remained a potential All right, let's see what is at least where you're headed. Where's this energy heading this connection? That's this corpio card there so seven of cups Lots of options choices again multiple possibilities opportunities Picking and choosing decisions again. I don't see anything substantial happening here Okay In the current period I still feel Going forward There's still a little bit of fantasy and illusion wishful thinking I still see going forward So in other words, I don't feel like out out of the blue all of a sudden even though there's a desire and a decision To come together with you with this person I don't Feel like it's just going to go from black to white Where all of a sudden they're just going to call you and explain everything and then you guys are going to settle in and talk And then get immediately the next day into a full-blown comedic relationship I feel like there's a little bit of exploration and a lot of communication that needs to happen Before getting to that point. Okay, so there's still going to be kind of like this dream like state this fantasy I do feel like this person. It's a little bit in fantasy mode about you still also It may not get into Uh or get grounded this connection with this person Um, maybe because some of you have them blocked or you've ghosted Okay Either initially or in return. So there's a lot of unknown going forward where you're headed Okay, um, it may not go anywhere because you're not trying to communicate with someone or you're not You're not open to hearing anything from this person. Some of y'all are just busy loving yourselves right now Because of everything that's happened Okay But I do feel like this person is going to try to make some kind of an effort towards you Let me take a look of how you view yourself Well, right now I feel like, you know, you are you're a very committed person Virgo When you make your mind up Put your, you know, nose to the grindstone in relationships In your health In your work everything you do Um, you're always open to learning And you're always open you study Um, you may always feel like you're just always a student rather than a teacher throughout your life You may have always felt that way, but I feel like you view yourself as like, you know what? I'm dedicated when I love someone And when I know this is my person, I'm not a cheater Um I commit You might view yourself also As being very capricorn like at some some some days like all work Um, maybe right now a lot of you are just kind of like, you know, all Maybe I need to take a rest some of you might just be workaholics As well, but you understand That things will grow from hard work and commitment and you have been committing to yourself Working hard on self you've been growing you've been learning You've been building on your successes Maybe collaborating with other people working on teams You're very determined I feel like that's how you see yourself. You're setting goals You're dedicated to those things and You're very much someone who has quality over quantity Definitely and I feel like that's basically how you view yourself and you're also A committed type of a person. You're not afraid of long term. You're not afraid of marriage Um Or a long term relationship of some sort. You are like teamwork. You're like, come on, let's do this It's not just about love. It's also about You know making the partnership work. So I like how you view yourself Virgo You have justice that's leverant energy. You also view yourself as someone who's very truthful and very honest You believe in karma You believe in justice you might be somewhere on the cusp of Virgo Libra as well You also believe in their inconsequences as well For every act there's a reaction, you know, you believe in the law of uh, You know what comes up must come down, you know, but you also believe that you're a fair person and you're willing to Listen To what another person says to try to gain clarity. Um, I don't see anything Going on here with you where you lack integrity You might feel in some ways that maybe you're not that person, but Maybe you just have to dig a little deeper You know Virgo, um, you also believe in marriage. These are both marriage cards as well um, maybe you Don't like to use that word and if you don't as far as like legal marriage Maybe you are just someone who believes in the sacred union of two people Let me take a look and see Your environment or the other person. Okay, there's a knight of sorts. So this person is coming towards you There is no They're gonna make the changes.  There's no doubt. All right Um, they're coming to see you they're Arrival deporture. Uh, they could be on a plane a ship a boat. Absolutely Okay And I feel like this is going to be very impulsive this energy also You know, there's just a lot of travel, but a lot of talkativeness Um, there's going to be like an impatience to communicate Very rebellious staring energy here. Um, I feel like this person wants to talk They want to talk to you. So Virgo, if you want to talk to this person Or you want to give this person an opportunity to talk to explain with truth And that's something that you want, but you have them block Are you not answering the phone or replying or giving them the opportunity? Then you might miss The opportunity to have that conversation But if you don't Again, I'm not telling you to do that. I'm only saying is that if that's something that you want Then I would unblock the person Okay But only I have to give the caveat if you've given this person Opportunity after opportunity after opportunity To communicate with you at some point you have to put a cap on it. Okay, so you have to be the one to discern If that's what you need to do because I mean This this is no lottery here. You don't get 80 million chances to win the big millions This is like because time gets wasted here for you if you keep giving someone chance after chance after chance after chance So, you know, if it's the first time and there's a split And then the second time now they're coming around you can give them a chance to talk But I wouldn't go past three Three would be my max and I'm telling you that personally You do what you want though, but I do feel like this person does want to communicate with you Okay, um Let me see what else Oh, okay, five of cups. Um Yeah, this person is like really grieving loss of you. Hmm. This feels a little profound to me Bloody stumps. That's all I'm saying Virgo. Like if you've given this person chance after chance And um, they haven't come back with the bloody stumps. Will they come back? Just be still. You don't have to do anything Just be still and watch and see and observe if this person is coming in with their leg cut off below the knee And they're carrying it and they're walking up to your door and saying here Here's my leg. I'm going to limp for you for the rest of my life, whatever it takes And I'm just going to keep repeating and be consistent and commit to that Then okay Right Long time ago you guys, right?  I know a lot of you Don't know what that means, but it's stuck, right? Explain it to everybody in the chat if if they're new and they don't know But the energy is this person is really grieving the loss For sure and they're coming back into recover Okay, um, they're heartbroken They didn't want this Maybe you ghosted them or you left. They didn't want that to happen This was an unwelcome change, but you know, they were sitting on the fence. What were you supposed to do?  Do you sit on the bench? Are you like third string or are you a starter? And did this person View you as like third string or did they if they viewed you as a starter? Then you would have been Starting You know, um, but so did you present yourself in a certain way or is it just like I said this person has their childhood traumas that they could never I don't know something's changing here I do feel like something is changing here with this person And they're really focusing a heavy duty on the loss Maybe it's been five or six months Since some type of separation or connection with this person Five or six weeks Five or six years even for some of you Give or take, you know, so yeah, I feel like this person is they can't take it Yeah Two messages there with the seven of swords number one They're grieving the fact that they were tricky or they were scheming or They were lying about something or not telling you the truth or not opening up, you know Even if they're not deliberately telling lies Um withholding is a form of lying. Okay. It's just not deliberate. It's it's a live eye omission I think it's called not really sure But also running away Running away a lot There's a lot of grief and I feel like this person is missing you if you made a break for it I mean Virgo, it seems to me in this reading that you did what you needed to do Because you life goes on you have to move on with your life. Okay, obviously and You can't wait around forever, right? Don't know what you got till it's gone You you can't wait around forever if someone is on the fence or they can't work out what their problems are their issues I mean unless It's not even unless I mean you could know full well what i'm talking about And you could have all the knowledge in the world about what this person's traumas Were and you can love them until you're blue in the face and do everything you can but Until they reconcile things with themselves and start loving themselves um There's not really much you can do If they don't see they're worse and if they don't love themselves because they were never taught that That you got a project not a lover you got a project Anyway, I do feel like this person is going to you know try to come back in definitely They're coming towards you in december for sure and um There is going to be some type of a conversation um again, I do feel like this person is going to Yeah, I just keep feeling they're coming in with truth definitely. Oh Some of it is also going to be about um, this is vergo energy. We have quarious I said scorpio Some for some of you this person is going to come in When they're finished Some type of work or they get all of that money Or they get that house Or this inheritance Okay, that's heavy duty. I'm not sure what that is once the will is signed Or the the deed is delivered Or the trust funds are released. I'm hearing or the house is bought or sold. Yeah There's something going on or they're finished. They're out. They're making a break they're on kind of uh Almost feels like a temporary leave from work. There's definitely maybe in the holidays as well This person's coming in to talk for sure make the effort to talk If you want to talk to this person remember what I said in the beginning of the reading with the full moon in gemini Go ahead and have that important conversation.  It seems to me like you guys are just like I'm out of here Um, I am going to go into the extended reading after this reading. I just want you to know So, um, I'll leave a link below the video to see actually how things are going to play out with you and this person Um, so do keep that in mind Let's see. Let's take a look at the outcome and where the energy is heading Okay, hmm the hanged man The temperance wow Okay So I feel like December a through the 14th There's going to be some kind of an outcome. Maybe after a conversation Okay, and the extended reading will go further from there To see what will play out here because this is not this is the outcome is ending in the middle of december um Sagittarius and Pisces energy Okay, okay Spirit is telling me Waiting for the right time divine timing Is it play here? And and yeah, this is this is what I feel like As I said in the beginning Virgo, I didn't feel like there was going to be a like black and white scenario I didn't feel like this person was going to come running in and you guys are going to sort everything out in one hour And then tomorrow everything's changed I feel like this is going to be a little bit of a long process Okay, um the outcome of the reading is patience Twice here Temperance and the hanged man is about having patience And trying to see a situation differently Okay, I see a harmonious relationship. I see a soulmate connection I see gaining perspective This is double the double message of gaining perspective I feel like you're going to learn a lot of things and you're going to be awakened to the conversation Some issues are going to get resolved Definitely, there's going to be some truth That you may already know but you just need confirmed by this Conversation that gets had just like I said the answers you need are coming here with the full moon in Gemini And I feel like there's going to be an opportunity for you and this person, but mostly for you To contemplate now this new information that you get from this person Okay And again, I'm going to go into the extended reading after this to try to see if you would like to Go ahead and click on the extended reading right now Not go any further into the reading Feel free to click off the video and go below in the description box Click on the extended and we'll get right into the rest of the reading to see How things are going to play out with you and this person or you could just stay for the rest because they still have more cards I'm going to pull and Go do a little bit more all right, so Let's get into the Chinese signs here I want to see what your Chinese sign and what this person's Chinese sign is could be both of you Or just one of you or could be none of you. So take just a moment Let's see Okay, year of the rabbit Year of the pig Year of the horse Year of the monkey Okay year of the ox Monkey again Year of the dragon Year of the dog and one more Oh year of the horse, but we already did that And It says year of the rat did I do year of the rat? I don't think I did okay and year of the rat All right, so if that resonates with you Great if it doesn't Don't sweat it. Okay Let's go on to the next Cards I want to pull here. Okay. Let me just get these out of the way just one second you guys I feel like maybe I pulled too many cards Okay, we want to know Messages of love See what the divine spirit has to say In regards to This relationship One of the messages for her go. Oh, we had one that flipped out here Okay That's funny Finances financial challenges are affecting this connection. Remember I said in the very beginning this person put work and career education first before love Okay, and that is a true challenge to this connection for them. Definitely not because you guys are broke, but because it's like I can't kiss you. I can't love you. I can't hug you. I can't talk to you because I have to work That's a neglect of the relationship This person might feel like they're contributing to it by doing all that stuff, but Maybe it's the way they were raised like I said their culture something along those lines You see Okay, trust is safe to trust in this situation Spirit says it's safe to trust for a go Retreat time alone or in nature will help you recharge That might be something you need at this time still Okay, and denial to touch with love to clearly see the truth Okay, also strictly sexual this connection is passionate but not enduring So, yeah, I feel like there might have been a strong sexual connection But it didn't last because passion is fleeting. I can't last it's not sustainable It comes and it goes so in the past perhaps the connection was very much all about that That was how this person may have connected They thought they were connecting With love or getting close, but they were using Sexual connection or passion in order to make that connection with you There's a strong lack of love Strong lack of Expression of love Not knowing how to express love they know how to express the zipper and the pants going down Or the shirt coming off and they know how to express money But the emotions and the love and the affection were lacking for some reason Okay, also addiction there might have been an addiction this person. Okay, are you? Sexual addiction maybe to each other or outside of the relationship And that doesn't mean having physical intimacy with other people it could if you know about it not predicting it But it could also be You know a little bit of the hub hub stuff Okay And passion There's a there's a strong passion That flows between you and whoever your person is here A desire to try things you've never done before I feel like oh my goodness Uh a very strong strictly sexually addictive addiction passion There might have been some kink or something in this relationship that was um Like we're not going to go all the way down into that That rabbit hole there, but I feel like you know what I'm talking about some of you are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay I'm not I don't want to dive too deep into that's none of my business Spiritual lesson this person is in your life to teach you a spiritual lesson and that's for both of you Okay, definitely There you go patience everything will unfold in divine timing and I feel like that's the outcome of the reading is what I said The outcome is that things will unfold the way they're meant to in time Um, it's nothing for you to force if you try to force it As far as like trying to resolve the situation or trying to get answers I don't feel like you're going to get what you Are trying to get I don't feel like you are going to get what you need doing that I feel like just be still just be chill. Have some pizza Enjoy your holidays Just relax And just let it be let it be Let it be Let it be let it be You see what the hidden truth messages are here for you All right, this person definitely wants you but they are afraid to contact you doesn't mean they won't But they do have some fears Maybe because you ghosted her you walked away or you're in hiding Or maybe you're in hermit mode and They don't know what to expect There's so many things that remind them of you Yeah, I hid who I really am from you I do feel like you're going to get some clarity about this In this conversation as long as you don't You know push them away unless you don't want the clarity and you don't care Then you know that this reading is not for the singles so go back to yesterday's reading and get that Okay Just being near you is intoxicating And I do love you. They do love you They replay your conversations over and over. Maybe they listen to your voicemail This person is becoming a better person. Remember I said The thrill is gone Whatever this person was seeking They'd already found it. They just didn't realize and now they're trying to become a burst Listen, that's bloody stumps right there bloody stumps is I'm becoming a better person It was my fault But they blamed you it was their fault But they blamed you I don't feel like you took the blame they wish things could be different You Virgo came closer than anyone and that's what I was seeing earlier They'd already met the one that they were seeking They just couldn't get themselves to be in that position to where They were ready. They weren't ready. They might have even said they were ready, but they really weren't ready They just didn't want to lose you They needed you to stay where you were Because they needed time But that's not fair. You can't do that to people. That's very controlling If somebody needs time, they need to say, you know, I can't do this right now I pray and hope that you'll be there when I'm ready But right now I'm not ready and then you don't hold hostages.  Sometimes you need to like unhook yourself All right, let me see what your Other messages are here. Don't forget you guys. There's an extended reading. The link is below if you want that Okay, that's interesting.  Maybe it's that movie up Something about up or the initials you and a P but I'm hearing up I'm hearing packing somebody's packing And somebody likes jello eats a lot of jello Or what do they say in europe the equivalent of jello in europe is jelly Oh, all right, so Two names are giving me josh or John Or Jonah There's a j and as an o And an h in the name I just heard meek. Somebody's very meek Timid someone's very meek And timid oh, and then I just heard mic n n Like the letter n Someone's very meek and timid shy introverted Okay Okay, that's weird I just heard gripe water gripe water I'm not sure what the heck that is gripe So it has gripes gripe or a complaint or maybe it's grape flavor Grape now they're telling me all this different stuff Oh, and also Now they're giving me Somebody's in a garage or does something in a garage. Maybe having a garage sale already say europe a garage or Uh, I don't know what other words there would be for That garage or storage place Okay, somebody's name starts with a c Or it has okay. Yeah c Okay, now i'm hearing gary gary gary gary gary Who is this Who is this? Oh gosh Got really quiet all of a sudden I feel like my guides are gone. Where the heck did they go? I can't hear them No, there's no talking Okay I guess maybe i'm supposed to stop that has never happened to me before Where I just absolutely cannot hear them Okay I don't know what that means you guys And it's crazy too because the card that I just pulled was a page of cups which is heightened psychic Psychic abilities But I it's it's it's just dead. It's blank. I hear nothing I feel like I need to stop this reading. Okay. I I've never I can't give you a reading without hearing them Hold on I I don't I'm so freaked out by this because I've never experienced this before Where it's just gone the channel has closed The portal it's just closed It's always open Okay. All right. Well, there you go. Um Okay They had a lot to say and then they just left so I'm just going to leave that there Then I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do at this point because that's the only reason I'm here And I don't know what to do. So I'm going to leave the reading with you um and Yeah, definitely click on the extended um, I'm sure I they will be back. I just have to um Re-channel them back in or figure out. Maybe I just need to have a glass of water or something um, but yeah, I'm going to leave this here for you and uh, I will be back tomorrow, which will be December 6th to do Your reading again. So let me know if any of this resonates leave comments Please subscribe hit the like button if you enjoy the reading and um Yeah, if you want to get a personal reading, don't forget that I'm running a december holiday discounted reading special On my website. So you can go over there. It's like 75 dollars off So it's a really big deal And I know it's a little pricey, but uh, trust me my you know, you can ask anybody my readings This is for a 45 minute reading so we can really get in depth in 45 minutes All right, you guys or you can give it as a gift either one All right, you guys. So I hope you enjoy that Hopefully you made some sense and I will see you all tomorrow. All right. Take care. Bye Hey, there Virgo Just wanted to let you guys know that I am running a christmas special for the month of december If you go over to my website moon pytero.com the link will be in the description box below You can book your december holiday special 45 minute phone reading. It's 99 dollars today through december 31st All you have to do is go to my website Scroll down click right over here where it says december holiday special and click book now It will be a phone call reading Okay, so once you click you can choose the date And then you can also choose the time that you wish to have your reading with me. Okay, and I will call you on the phone I will call you on the phone And we will have our 45 minute phone reading. Okay, so just remember it is 99 dollars For the month of december. This is a merry christmas little gift to you from me. My readings are generally um way higher than that so Go ahead and peruse around you don't have to take the holiday readings But I would grab it because they fill up really quickly if you really want a reading Do it now if you don't you can and also just know you can book well in advance You can book your reading for december 28th if you want also if you don't need a reading You can also purchase a gift card and give a reading to a friend Or a family member or someone who's special and close to you All right burgo, so I'm gonna leave that there for you and I will see you guys Tomorrow, but just remember merry christmas. Happy new year. Definitely check that out.


So, I am going to quickly recollect the points we discussed in the video on authorship. How do you determine authorship of technical work and how to determine the order, who is the author, who is not an author and so on. So, firstly who is an author of a technical work? The important thing is they should have made a significant intellectual contribution that is very important. An author of a technical work is somebody who has given intellectual contribution. Intellectual means they should have planned the work, they should have executed the work or they should have analyzed the results, so this is the intellectual contribution. Some people may think that writing is also intellectual, while you can argue that writing is intellectual, but usually writing can be both ways. Somebody has written it roughly and then you work on it and improve it, that is not so much, but somebody who has not done anything in the work and just writing, just formatting, just putting the table, just putting the figures, drawing plots is not necessarily an intellectual contribution. Similarly, it can happen that somebody has just given you an idea. You go and you go to a conference or you go to discuss something with somebody else and while you present your work, they say that why do not you try this, this might work.  You did all the hard work and that person comes and tells you, I gave you the idea, you should have my name on your paper, what will you say? So not sufficient that you just give an idea. Idea anybody can give, it might just fail also. Maybe there is an intellectual contribution in giving the ideas, not just random guess, but many ideas can fail. So in general it is not considered a significant contribution, it is an intellectual contribution but it is not a significant intellectual contribution. And more importantly, the author should own responsibility. Now I might have given you an idea to work on. You did it, it worked. You are going to put, you are saying you should put my name because you think it was I who gave you the idea, but I might have a different opinion. I need to own a responsibility of what you have done. You claim that you have done a certain experiments. Now how do I know that what you did is right? So I am very uncomfortable if you put my name in that work for which I do not even know what you have done. I have hardly given an idea, very broad idea which could be stated in why do not you try this, it might work which hardly takes 10 seconds to tell. But you have spent a whole year doing experiments, planning experiments, analyzing the results and writing a paper. You think you should put my name, but I may not feel so. I do not feel responsible for what is that you have done, I only gave an idea. So it is very important that each author owns a responsibility of some aspect of the work, some intellectual contribution, just not just giving the idea. So I think it will become clear when we see what is bad authorship. I have discussed all these things in the lecture before, an authorship like a gift authorship, honorary, insignificant, ghost and without permission. You thought I gave you the idea and you could just put my name without even asking me, but I may not feel so. I might feel that I do not trust the way you do the work. I do not like the way you do analysis. I do not trust that that is the correct way to do, but my name is being associated with the bad work. So it is your fault to have included my name without my permission. So these are different situations.  If you have come across some situations where you are found in a very tricky position, you thought somebody should not be the author and they were forced to be put an author. So let us discuss many of these issues openly and try and find some kind of guidelines or principles over which we can work together. So I am going to reset the questions now and I want you to give comments, raise questions on this question of who is an author, who is not an author. We will come to the order of authorship later, but currently we will just restrict to who is an author and who is not an author. On that topic if you have questions and comments. So think about for a 5 minutes and then I am going to reset. Think about for 5 minutes. If you have come across some situation and discuss with your neighbor and ask if that is appropriate situation to be discussed and then I will reset the hand raise. So I have reset it now. So if you have any questions or comments, so please come ahead. So let us have knowledge institute of technology, knowledge institute. I am studying some literature survey and I am applying it for my work and I am writing my paper and when I am writing, I am using some technical terms or a technical phrases which cannot be rephrased by my own words. Can I use it, whether it will be accounted as a plagiarism or should I use it as a reference, I should put the reference mark in the my part of the work. So we discussed this point earlier, but I will just reiterate once more. The question is if I use there are technical terms that you are not finding equivalent alternatives. Yes, if you do not find equivalent alternatives, you must use only the original phrase. But usually it is only one or two words which can be that original. If it is more than four words, it is usually a concept which can be written in a different way. You will not have four key words coming together, usually it is one or two other words in the sentence. So yes, you have to use as if it is original definition and there are no equivalent synonyms, you must use only the original key words. However, you keep a thumb rule as three words, not more than three. Usually more than three, you will have non-technical words which are coming which can be easily replaced by equivalent words, okay. Let us go to Federal Institute of Science and Technology. I was just worried about plagiarism of hiring ideas or copying ideas and presenting it in your research paper at the idea level. Second, language parts, we are simply copying it and appropriating it as one so on. So these two levels, idea that is content level, language part which is expression level. So how can a teacher, I mean, bring to the notice of a student. That is plagiarism taking place in both these areas. What can be our way of dictating plagiarism? Yeah, it is a very good question. Let me just reiterate your question for the benefit of others. So the question is there are two levels of plagiarism. One is the idea level which is content and other is the actual expression or the language. Now if you take look at most of the plagiarism checkers, they will only look for language level copying. So content level or idea level copying cannot be, all these ideas can be rewritten very beautifully but the idea is copied. Unfortunately, there is no way to detect it. So but that is why we have something called as a peer review. Now if somebody is working in a particular area and you have taken a work from somebody else but not given the citation to the original work, it possibly will get caught in the peer review but again it can go, we can miss that also. So there is, it is only a human, at the moment only a human can detect this kind of idea level plagiarism. We still do not have artificial intelligence for that. But again how to prevent it is a question that can come only by inculcating the ethics among the students. We cannot, we should just inculcate that it is as bad as to copy an idea as to probably kill your friend. So somebody has done it and you are not giving them credit is as good as killing his work or killing him. So it is that kind of ethics that we need to inculcate and it is, it is really difficult. We are all in a same boat that way. Thank you for raising this question. Vidya Pratishthan. Yeah, I am answering to your question, who is the author? Okay, according to me the author is the one who, according to me the author is the one who originates the content from the existing work or completely from a new idea and he should be able to put them in proper words with some form or he should be able to put some words. So he is the author. Good. So can you share any, I would like all of you to think about some anecdotes where you were put in this situation where you cannot, you are not able to come out of an embarrassing place or something where you asked to do something which you didn't want to, you were asked to put somebody's name as author but you didn't want to put their name.  What do you think is right to do and so on? Sometimes what happens for example, let's say someone is a guide for me in academic institution but he has given maybe a little idea or little information but the whole work will be done by a student. So in that case maybe a personal point of view or whatever the gift you say, in that respect I may give his name as author but might be he is not an author but due to some personal relation we may put. So are you talking about the guide or guide in some other institute? Guide means the one who guides me or one who has given a topic or one who has given an objective but not exactly, he is not one who is working or who is not carrying the experiment but the experiment by carrying by the student but due to that since he has given an objective I am putting his name as an author. Okay so this again would be subjective, very specific to that particular paper but in general a guide is not just supposed to give a topic and leave it at that, okay guide does not simply define a problem and leave it at that, at every stage they are supposed to guide you, they are supposed to show you which way to take, show you which way not to take, okay and once the results are there they help you analyze it, okay. So it is very, you are right there are situations where there are people who are guiding, you are supposed to be guides but only state the problem and expect their name to be there, even in big institutions you have such cases but they are very rare. Usual cases a guide is supposed to give a broad indication or broad indication of the where to look for answer, where not to look and so on. So in that case there is an intellectual contribution, there is a significant intellectual contribution in analyzing the results usually it will be the analysis of results and writing of the paper organizing the paper all that intellectual inputs go into it, so it is not just the idea alone or problem statement alone, okay. So let us go to D.Y. Patil college of engineering, yes D.Y. Patil do we have any questions, comments. My question is you said the contribution of author is either nil or very less contribution it is said, how do you define the barrier line for this contribution of an author whether nil or less, this is one question. Secondly I want to say that very often it is said for the authors that the contribution should be it should have a novelty it is said but very often if we see that novelty or originality to project that it is hard to do it for every person. There are chances also that the person may not having novelty in his work but he has done really commendable job, practical job perhaps a good application, in the engineering application maybe. So why should not we cannot be called as a novelty too. Let me just repeat your question for sake of others there are two things that you asked one is how do you differentiate the extent of work done by somebody between no work done and very little work done. The second question is about novelty somebody might have got something new to do but somebody else might have got might have worked very hard but not very new idea and so on. So will they be considered as an author is that correct. It may be having a practical implications also rather societal work. Engineering applications to the society of rural area. So to give an example is a power factor improvement in engineering it is a old one actually but if it is done in large area like comes in rural areas to improve the power factor it may not be novelty but it is a practical application too. If it is a platform many areas rural areas also villages why should not be called a novelty too. True you are very correct so the question is we are not now talking about we are not saying that only persons who have novel contribution have to be authors no that is not right. Persons who have significant intellectual contributions I will just show you that definition again. Significant intellectual contribution now significant intellectual contribution means it need not be new the idea itself may not be new but just that you are doing it for the first time in for this one that is also in a sense a new thing. So the idea of doing it in 1 kilowatt is one thing the idea doing it at 100 kilowatt is another thing so that itself is new. So that is not a question that is still an intellectual contribution that you do to finally see that outcome. Engineering as you said do it in large form whatever example that you gave that is certainly considered an intellectual contribution. Now your second question so novelty the summary is it is just not novelty the novelty might have you can interpret novelty in a different way just by just doing it for a large scale is also a novel thing. Now where it will be published is a question there might be journals which publish this kind of work but there might not be journals many journals may not accept this kind of work which is okay but there might be journals places you do not even have to submit it as a journal article you might just go and carry it out and show that it works that is a different thing that will be recognized in a different way as a development activity as an implementation activity. So that is a different thing your other question is how to distinguish between somebody who has not done any work and somebody who has done little work. So again these are some things that norms that you have to define so in many labs in many labs in the US they clearly have defined rules before they take up the project that is very important you have to define the rules before a project starts if you keep changing the rules as the project is progressing then you are you might be biased towards a particular student suppose that there is a student whom you do not like and then you change the rule that no you should have done 10 experiments only then I can count it earlier you said 5 experiments now you change it to 10 experiments this is an example. So if you change your rules as you progress then there is no meaning of having a rule you might want to change it for the next student but not now so having a predefined criteria ok if it is an experimental project I expect that to be an author you must have done so much amount of work that might be measured in terms of time it measured in terms of experiments ok and so on. So that is saying some minimum limits that you have to have this much amount of work to be called as an author pre define it before the work starts similarly if it is an analysis you have to have at least derived these equations without which is not existing in the literature you define it beforehand then you can be called as an author ok. So these are predefined conditions that you set to be called as an author so then there is no conflict if there are 4 students working each of them has contributed so much then all 4 students are authors in this work ok. So it is very important that you define these things let people know let your students know let your department head know it let your principal know that this is what I am following then next time when the principal says comes and asks you why have you not included my name in your paper you have an answer you say that this is the principle I followed and this is the way I would like to determine my authors ok. So we have just 10 more minutes we have looked at who the author is now the order of authors now order of authors is again tricky thing many people there is no one answer for all those things typical methods that are followed are the there is a descending order of contribution so you decide that ok. So previously you have decided that if I cross this limit you considered an authors so how much you exceed that limit the person who exceeds the most is considered the first author then the next author and so on. So this also the criteria for this also you pre-designed before starting the work or you just have the criteria beforehand do not change the criteria while doing the this one usually the communicating author the lead author ok is the lead of the group who has given the idea who is guiding the students who analyzes helps in analyzing the results who helps in writing up the paper or rewriting the paper they are usually last unless the extent of contribution of the lead author is itself so significantly high compared to their students work students simply did experiments without any analysis then there is a reason to put the lead author as the first author otherwise usually the lead author is the last others are coming decreasing order and then the lead author. So these are some typical methods that are followed some bad practices in this are you need to decide on the order of authorship together so what usually happens which is not desirable is only one person has a say on who is authorship who constitutes authorship and I will decide in which order I will put that is not a good way instead of telling that you will come first you will come second I will come first I will come last instead of saying that state the principle state a principle agree on a principle among the possible authors and then ask each of them to come up with an order based on the principle. So if you base it on a principle write down the principle and say that okay these are the principles all of us agree that who should be the author and what order it has to come and then each of us work among ourselves and write down okay by this principle this person is the first this person is second and so on and then you all exchange notes among yourself and find out okay you might find that all of you agree or maybe there is a small discrepancy okay and that you can resolve but it is very important that this principle is clear among the especially among the guide and the students that what principle was used to determine the order of authorship okay. So in another 5 minutes that we have I will reset and we will take some quick questions or discussions on this topic of order of authorship Amal Jyoti college of engineering. Sir I have a doubt actually yeah I did my MDAC in institution where I did my project and there I have a gate there so we two together publish a paper right now I am working in another institute where I want to continue this work with the help of my this institute so it just does I need to get the permission from the gate who is in the institute or I can publish myself without his name I can I publish my paper alone that's my doubt. So the question is you had you are working on a particular area and you already have publication with your m tech guide now you have come out of that institution m tech institution you are working on another institution where you want to work in the similar area the same area but another problem do I need to take permission from my m tech guide do I need to include their name in my work. So again the principle is what is important the principle is who constitutes an author the person your guide was responsible for educating you on the problem on the area while you are there you are there you paid fees they taught you you learn from them you had a paper that's all after you have come out you might have had some intellectual discussions with them okay some discussions they are like floating ideas they he must say that this might work this might not work unless you have a consistent and continuous collaboration or criticism you doing he is also putting equal effort if not equal significant effort then I don't think that person should qualify the simple reason is the principle that does the person have significant intellectual contribution if somebody is just sitting in a far institute who just taught you or even he might have given an idea to the new problem that you are working on now but just giving an idea does not constitute an authorship you don't even have to take permission it might be a courtesy to tell them that I am working on this just to make sure that he doesn't work on that problem and solve it before you you might just want to tell it as an matter of information but it is not required that you should have and it is actually wrong to have their name some people have the name just because if you have your guides name maybe it's easier to publish but that is wrong one doubt I have is if I am doing this experiment that the present experiment if I am doing in new material that is personally it's pure from the other the old experiment that I already conducted so that is in that state what should I do so long as you are doing a new the same process you are doing on a new material so there is it's still a different thing for this particular project that you are handling there is no intellectual contribution you ask a question you simply go at the list that I have shown here you ask these three questions has that person helped in planning the experiment that you are doing now not previously is that person executing the present work now is that person analyzing the results that you have got now not the previous one okay these three and again I have listed here this is one of the best practice criteria that an author is considered somebody who has definitely done one of planning execution or analysis and has contributed to the writing rewriting reviewing the manuscript number two and three approves the final manuscript that is very important now you might think that it is nice it is a courteous thing to include your former guides name but your former guide may not think so it might be an insult to him that you you are including his name even without his permission even with his approval of what you have done he can easily think that I don't trust the way you do the work when you went out of my institute why did you put my name so it is very important that you have every author approves the final manuscript very important every author has got some contribution to the writing of the manuscript either it is first draft second draft correcting something okay and it has to be one of these three things planning planning of the experiments now not the previous one execution means actually carrying out the experiments and analyzing the results either one of these things and this and this this is a very solid criteria which is followed in most top universities abroad so if you try to follow this and try to inculcate this among your students hopefully someday we will also have a good system where the students appreciate why somebody is considered an author and why somebody is not okay I think we have reached the time so we have to officially close but anybody wants to continue for five minutes I can still I am just going to reset the button now thank you so officially the classes close now so if anybody still wants to ask questions Mount Zion College of Engineering I would like to know what is the minimum allowable allowable percentage of plagiarism in thesis as well as in the journal paper okay so we have answered this question before but I will repeat it so first of all percentage is if you go by strict terms 0 minimum is 0 but strictly we can't go by so I we can definitely say that something more than 20% is really bad something less than 5% is okay now between 5 and 20% you have to be very subjective and need to look at what has been copied if it is few technical words I mean technical words is not full sentences if it is a few technical words which cannot which doesn't have a equivalent synonyms and if it is like few equations which are coming like that similar to the original thing those are acceptable so these are very subjective sir can you tell about the differentiate primary author as well as the corresponding author the corresponding author or the lead author is somebody who has who is the lead of the group in a sense usually in most of the publications which is done in universities the lead author is the guide or the communicating author who has worked on the subject for a large period of time and a primary author is somebody who has done the particular execution of the experiment more than analysis usually it is expected that persons who are beginning in their career are just beginning to learn to analyze the results okay so they mostly execute what is being told and then carry out some minimal analysis so but most of the work is done by the primary author most of the first or two drafts is written by the primary author the analysis of results is done by the lead author because they have little more experience in looking at the results and looking at shortcomings and looking at alternate ways to analyze and so on LDRP instead of technology UGC University grants commission has come up with a scheme to evaluate the work of the teachers now in that they state that the first author would get 60% of the credit for the paper while the remaining authors the remaining 40% get distributed equally between the remaining authors so this somehow supports the tendency for the guide to keep his name first which I think contradicts with the scheme presented by you or the principles that you have stated so do you have any view on this yeah so I have not heard of this but if it is such a thing it is very unfortunate I believe that if even if such a thing is there it should exclude the guide it should exclude the leader communicating author that should even if that criteria is there in a sense it is good because usually the primary author is the one who does a lot and in that sense it is okay to give 60% but putting the guides name in front is certainly not desirable and if you have your say you please write to UGC and to say that they should include a clause that guide guides name first is not acceptable yeah I do not agree with that yes go ahead please sir as you mentioned that that we supposed to get a final approval for our work from so and so for the contributor on the contributor what if the contributor I mean the author is a famous suppose and he doesn't refer our manuscript and because many times it happens that suppose author is a famous author and if I would recite or if I would work on his idea I mean that's intellectual contribution as you mentioned if I would take his intellectual contribution consideration and later on if I would work on that and if I send him for a final approval and what if he doesn't refer my manuscript which I sent him so first of all if that person has not given any intellectual contribution which is what you are saying he has taught you five years ago and for this particular problem he has not given any intellectual contribution he does not even qualify it is one of the bad authorships to have persons were just famous and have them as honorary authors it is a bad practice you must not have them in the first place at all forget the question of they don't have the time because they are famous they don't have the time to read the papers so if they don't have the time to read the papers it's a very good reason not to have them as an author as I said here they should have had one of execution planning or analysis and something some contribution to the manuscript either initial draft reviewing the draft or at least in reviewing the intellectual content even if you are not looking at the English language and the grammatical corrections at least intellectual correction if they don't have time for any one of this it's a nice reason to say we will not have them as an author okay Jawar Lal Nehru College of why don't the academic world come together to why don't the academic will come together to control the mushrooming agencies who tend to put across ISB and publication and take many of the young research scholars for a ride is there no mechanism because plagiarism starts from there because there is somebody who is prompting me to take up a young research scholar doesn't know whether the process of verification is done so can you just repeat this what is it that people are doing I didn't get the first portion what you know these young research scholar get influenced by many agencies which tends to provide ISB and ISS and number and then say that it's a referee journal there is no way to cross verify okay okay see I think the the way I would look at is in a very local way I don't know how to tackle it on a large scale I would simply educate my students to identify what are good journals and then publish in them I think if you are able to train them to identify good journals I think that is more important at least I don't have any ideas about I have not heard of this first of all I'm hearing for the first time I'm sorry I'm not aware of it but if there is such thing that is really happening then my own way is to tell the students which is which are the good journals and not to publish in anything else that's that's all I can I have control on my own students which I can tell them when they are here is there any parameter to identify a good journal is it based on the number of hits or how do you evaluate in a journal is good and which is bad I think you need to so okay this can be developed only over a period of time if we see where so you go to a conference and say you listen to people's talk are you able to judge whether the talk is rigorous done well and so on so you are able to identify persons who are doing sincere and rigorous work just see where they are publishing that is one step to find out which are good journals so that's why we have some some beginner reporter general might yeah I'm not saying reputed in sense very reputed but even some say not so reputed journals of course a good thing is the impact factor but at least beginning with you can start with the impact factor for beginners but again there is no real beginner that very everybody has got a guide and so on so in a sense we are not put into the world of scientific publication from nowhere we are only slowly coming into this we come through we exposed we are exposed to good research from our guides and we transmit that to our students so it is not that I came from my B Tech and M Tech and suddenly I found that which is good journal which is bad no I spent five seven years doing my PhD with my guide and the way I saw them working other people in my department I saw them working and that's how I gained a knowledge of judgment of which is good and which is bad and that is how I try to tell my students which is good and which is bad so I think I don't see any other way that this can be done more analytically like seeing just the just the impact factor or just some other H index and so on thank you PhD college in the case where there are two equally contributed authors and the first name maybe my friend and the second name is me when I go to an interview they take only the first person to be the main paper presented and the second person as a contributor just to help us so in that case how can we choose whose name should be presented as the first writer and assistant correct so see it is whenever you find a work in which there are people who are having equal contributions usually you will find a second paper where the order is shifted because suppose in a particular work you have done equally as your friend but your name came second but certainly there would have been another similar work where you would have done little more than not that friend maybe somebody else so it is expected that at least in one or two of them you have a significantly more contribution than the others so that you can use it certainly but of course in certain cases where say you have only one publication so far and you do not have the second one the best thing would be to ask your supervisor to write a letter or a certificate mentioning that the contribution has been equal and there is another work which is in progress where this ladies this girl is suppose has done a significantly more work it is underway and so on it is better to or even all the authors this will be ideal if all the authors of that contribution agree that say your friend yourself your guide all of them state in a paper that both the first and the second author have contributed equally in fact in certain journals you can use this statement as part of your publication just like an acknowledgement section in the last section you can explicitly state say Lila has contributed the to these these experiments summa has contributed to these these experiments Vijay has done these analysis okay and all of them are to be considered as equal contributors so if you state this upfront in the paper itself that is the best thing okay that is the best thing that you can do that you cannot change that fact later if you have not done that what you can do is at least when you go to an interview you get such a statement written and signed by all three authors that all of them agree that you have done equally as the others one more question related to that and so there are certain universities which are using that guidelines of scopus and they do give the list scopus indexed journals and in that case there are n number of journals where there were no publications at all from Indian authors at all and for the last 19 years there were 19 or 20 years for the no Indian author has been recognized for such journal publications at all so even then we do write to them and it's immediately rejected even though we have been using that the broad or out the spectrum of the journal so they have stated that this is not in the scope of the journal they immediately reject that so considering that point and then why why the universities have not come forward to revise that because these journals are meant for only European side are in the American authors alone have been recognized and so why this kind of insisting on that the Indian writers to publish papers in such journals at all so is there any revision at all to be done in the case of that as a high performance institution like IIT why can't IITs can give some certain guidelines that these were the possible journals you can publish so that the universities can take up a model from IITs and they can insist on publishing journals from that list which you have given so I don't think any IIT should do this kind of do this and do that kind of stuff it might be a personal one to one basis that if you know somebody in IIT working in your area you can ask them for the advice but why should IIT come and tell for the all of India that you should publish in this I don't think any IIT will take that stand officially and they should not also but however if you ask me on a personal basis that you and I are working on a similar area I might know some journals which you don't know I might willing to share that as a personal information as a friend or as an advice but I don't think it can be an officially stated that you should publish here and not there and I don't think that that will work of course there are very recent attempts within our own Indian community among this top Indian Academy of Sciences and Engineering to come with come up with Indian journals of high quality the problem which will be mitigated of the kind of problems that you are saying will get mitigated that only foreign unit universities accept this one so problem with many Indian journals the quality is not there so if we are able to ensure a good quality and accept and reject papers as well then I think we will be able to build a community of good publications within India which are respected at least there may be many topics which are not relevant to the US community or to the Western community but something which is here but which is done in a rigorous way so there are efforts to this in this direction but let's it'll take time to manifest okay Excel your question was for the scientific method what are the different passes see scientific method is a methodology or a process of doing research or doing your day-to-day activities the three passes are with respect to reading a paper how to read a paper okay so if you have any more questions please type it out I think that is a better way I will move on to the next institute and come back to you later if you still have questions I will go to MediCAPS Institute of Technology hello so thanks for waiting so I have two questions the first one is related to plagiarism and second related to authorship sir the first thing is one student of mine he had completed his thesis work and I was asked to check for plagiarism that I the guide has been the guide had been shifted to me earlier he had a different guide so when I checked his work for plagiarism it was free of plagiarism but later on when the external came he checked it using turn it in and it contains plagiarism so what is the like correlation between different tools and turn it in because it was showing 0% plagiarism and different tools which were freely available on the net so the second situation is related to authorship one of my students he was placed in a company and so he had to leave early the college so he asked me whether he can publish his paper I said yes he included my name and later on it contain plagiarism so what should I do in such situation okay very good question I will repeat the question for others the first question is the different softwares gave different results and you thought that the first software did not give any plagiarism and you accepted it unfortunately as I said many free softwares have this problem they do not have extensive database search and turn it in has so if your college can afford it at least ask them to get a few licenses of turn it in and then use it for the different classrooms I don't know of any other equivalent it might be there but if it is there I don't know so we have found turn it in to be very good so we just go by experience as I said that something does and something does not there is no such proper study which has given us which is better in which is not in general turn it in has got a very large database of all the research papers of existing of psdpcs and several other documents so that's why turn it in is good your second question of your student putting your name and then later it was found to be plagiarized is precisely the point that I said that each author has to have an ownership now when you agreed to put your name as a author you agreed to put based on ownership of some responsibility now if I go back to the points that I mentioned here did you do some of planning execution maybe you did some analysis did you carefully review the document no you didn't or maybe you did but the plagiarism checker did not catch it and did you approve the final manuscript so when you approve a final manuscript you have taken responsibility that anything that goes wrong also you carry partial responsibility anything that is nice to it you get the credits anything that is bad you lose the credibility so that is why these principles which I have listed here are pretty much time tested and it is recommended that you use these principles very thoroughly and you understand the meaning of this thank you for pointing out this example that others will know that they are also they can also be subject to similar situations then they need to be careful before accepting to be just put as an free author just like that does it answer your question seven more question when you were just telling about the authorship of technical work who is the author of the third point was some publications require identification of contribution this point is not clear can you please elaborate some publications require identification of contribution it means that for example like this now what is your name madam and what is your friend's name there okay when the contribution essentially means putting a statement in the paper like just before the acknowledgement section saying that Pallavi contributed by planning these experiments Akruti executed 50% of the experiments Pallavi also contributed 50% of the experiments and let's say your guide Shankar did the analysis and wrote the paper okay so now let's say Pallavi is the first author and Akruti is the second author you have provided a justification you have provided what you have identified in print what each of you have contributed and since all of you Pallavi Akruti and Shankar have approved the manuscript it means that you have accepted the contribution of each other so that is what it means by identifying the contributions made does it answer your question but you mentioned that some publications require some publications require now what are these publications which require this kind of identity I think it is mostly in medical journals some open access journals and some new journals have this explicitly traditional journals didn't have it but these are principles and ethics that are coming into mainstream now okay thank you sir thank you very much have a nice day so we'll go to symbiosis symbiosis is still waiting there are you there symbiosis thank you for waiting so you have a question while including the name of institute in the paper we should include the name of research institute or the institute where we do the job so there are one is research institute what are the other one other institute where we do the job or okay so you the reason why affiliation is given is for two purposes definitely the let's say you're working in one college and you're doing the experiment in some research institute definitely the research institute contribution should be there because they provided you with the facilities to do it now it is also important that you acknowledge and you give your parent institute the institute which you work because they have provided you with say leave or some other concessions to do your research so given that it is important that you mention both the institutes another question sir in the review paper while writing the review paper the author must be from the expert from that field or should have published number of papers or is it possible to write a new author review paper is it possible in principle it is possible except that it might be difficult to publish first of all it will be difficult to write because somebody who has not worked in a particular area and just coming afresh and writing a review paper is slightly difficult you need to have done it is it is not possible to do it it is itself a research on itself you you work on you look at lot of publications you understand them it cannot be done in six months or one year it probably will take couple of years to do it for a fresh person somebody was already worked on some things it is okay but fresh person it is difficult and publication of that is also little difficult there might be journals which will accept it but normally review papers are done by invitation I mean there are actually suppose let us say one author has given one kind of one algorithm and that is referred by a second author and if I am referring the second author algorithm should I cite to both the author or should I cite to the first author you have to cite so if the second author is not changed anything from the first one you have to cite the first author but if the second author has used say 90% and made 10% change and you are using all the change then you need to cite both of them essentially if there is a significant contribution from a particular work you should cite it. The first question I asked about the research center and job institute is that job institute should be acknowledged in the acknowledgement part of the paper or can I refer both the affiliation in below my name no no it has to be below your name the job institute has given you leave or has been paying you for the time you spent there in the because it is indirectly participating in the research okay they are not giving any facilities to do it but they are indirectly participating in giving you a opportunity to work so it is good to actually acknowledge that in the affiliation itself not as an acknowledgement section because you are actually affiliated to the place you work you are not affiliated to the place you do the research in your affiliation is the college or place of work where you are being paid okay thank you very much let me go to the last couple of institutes there are waiting there waltz and the institute thank you for waiting my work is specifically related to research work that is use of paddy straw for erosion control when finding out one of the properties like the repability of the paddy straws you may have validated I have obtained some results and validated it by using the SPSS software but then also I came to other paper wherein they have used they have found out the repability property on coir geotextile so the steps in the validation analysis are almost same so will it be amount to plagiarism you mean the steps are the same but the material is different I could not get it clearly but then today I have also given his citation reference also so will this be sufficient or because the after using the software the steps are almost same and even interpretation could be also same but the material is different yes material different and form of material is also different for example it is there is coir mesh coir textile geotextile and mine is the paddy straw geomesh and mine is a handmade product there is a machine made product and that is of different material that is coir yeah so so plagiarism here it is not a plagiarism of expression it it it can be called plagiarism of idea but you are not doing a plagiarism of idea in the methodology method or if certain things have to be done by a particular method and it has to be analyzed in a particular way that is not plagiarism now suppose somebody had done the exactly same material as yours and you rewrite it in a different way that is plagiarism in your case the material is different nobody has worked on that material by that method before so certainly it is not plagiarism you need to make sure that the sentences that you choose does not be it is not the same as what is given in that work only then it will be considered as a plagiarism so long as you change the expression the material is certainly different so it is a knowledge which does not exist before and you are providing a new knowledge about this material so it is not plagiarism you need to just take care that you do not express the same sentences or phrases one more question form of the material is different for example as I said it had it been a geotextile of Padishra which is not possible because it cannot be converted into thread or had it been a textile and mine is a form is different for example had my geomagnet would it have been plagiarism in that case no so long as you are doing for a different material it is not it is definitely it does not matter you just see if the same material has been done before if it has not been done it is a new work see whether it is significantly new contribution and all is a different aspect but it is certainly not plagiarism whether your your scientific contribution is significant that only you can say it is not significant scientific contribution I somebody has done for material A I am doing for material B same procedure it is not significant scientific contribution but that is not bad may most of the research in science progresses because there are few people who are doing really really new work and many people who are doing repetitive work repetitive work has its value it is not bad what you are doing is a repetitive work what you have done is a repetitive work but that does not it is not plagiarism because there is a new material which has not been done before the procedure is the same the instrument is the same analysis is the same so what but this material has not been done before you might not find journals which will accept it because it is a small incremental work but that is a different thing it is not plagiarism so Sheila Dhanchand thank you for waiting sir I have two questions to you one is regarding technical details and other is regarding plagiarism I would start with plagiarism you mentioned that there are different softwares and we have been using at the point when the discussion was going on on plagiarism we had a short discussion here in the hall and we were unsure whether no similarities in sentences and some of the words can be considered as plagiarism or is there any mechanism to sort it out I mean when different ideas are if any idea for different author is being stated as our own we consider that that is plagiarism but when you check plagiarism or your text on internet there are number of words and sentences which are similar to the sentences and words you have written so what to do in that case words are similar is okay if it is you should the as I said before if there are technical keywords which are not replaceable then it is okay to have the same words but as a thumb rule you keep it as three words not more than three words at a at a stretch should be same or very similar try to have usually the problem comes with non technical English words normal commonly used English words the problem comes there problem is not with respect to technical words usually technical words you will you will not find more than one or two words two words at a time that is not considered plagiarism what is the other question about grammatical words oh no so any other words in normal English which is used which it is there for more than three words that you have to rewrite you you have to rewrite the whole idea so it see suppose there is a paragraph with five sentences you rewrite each sentence but exactly convey the same idea it is in a sense plagiarism you do not need to actually write all five sentences you can summarize the five sentences in one or two sentences


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