Everybody, today we're debating nationalism versus anti-fascism, and we're starting right now. All to have you here for this epic debate, this is going to be a lively one, folks. I have no doubt about that, and if it's your first time here, consider hitting that subscribe button as we have a lot more debates coming up. So for example, on the bottom right of your screen, you'll see this Thursday there's a triple threat debate, communism versus socialism versus capitalism, which should be a blast. Also, I want to let you know, we are a neutral channel. So in other words, we have no actual positions as a channel, and as a moderator, my goal is to be as neutral as possible in not taking any stances. So with that, we are going to jump right into this. We are very excited for this one, folks. I do want to introduce our guests. So first, I'm just going to quick give you their names, and then we'll get rocking and rolling. So we have Brenton and Caleb, who will be representing the anti-fascism side tonight, and then we'll also have Eric and Mike. They'll be defending the nationalism or, as they've also called it, the third positionism position. So with that, very excited, folks, this is going to be a lot of fun. If you have a question fired into the old live chat, and if you tag me with an at-modern day debate, it makes it a little bit easier for me to be sure that I see every question that you put in that live chat so I can put it in the list. Super Chat is also an option. In that case, if you ask a question, you can also make a comment toward the speakers to which they of course would have the chance to respond to, and we ask that you be your usual friendly selves for that part. Be warned. I will not read every Super Chat in the event that it may be, especially if it violates our only rule at the channel, which is no hate speech. We won't read those, and those would be deleted. So with that, we are very excited for this one, folks. We're going to jump into it right now. So going first, it's going to be a five-minute statement from Eric, followed by a five-minute opening from Bretton, and then Mike, and then Caleb. And those are flexible five-minute opening statements, so the speakers don't have to use the full five minutes. They can use whatever they would like for that portion, and very excited to have you here, gentlemen. So, Eric, the floor is all yours for your opening statement. Okay. I'm Eric Stryker. I run a publication called National Justice, National Hyphen Justice. I do a podcast on TRS Cold Striking Mike. So what I'm going to talk about now is what it means to be a third positionist. The third position is a radical opposition to the left and the right. In today's neoliberal order, the right has abandoned the nation, and the left has abandoned the working class. The minoritarian impulse of globalism is not in the interest of the majority, nor was it brought about with their consent. We seek to combine what has been lost in a synthesis that will finally give the people what they've always wanted.  According to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, men of European descent are denied protections from discrimination and privileges. According to the writings of Hannah Arendt, it is through the state that groups are able to affirm their dignity. Thus, this law makes it so whites are the only group locked out and thrown to the periphery. The outcome is obvious. White, middle, and working class people are the only demographic that has seen its life expectancy fall. Suicide rates rise. Its employment prospects completely hollowed out through the globalization process that has been brought about by a new metropolitan urban ideology led by a thin film of elite, well I don't know if I can say it, elite people of a certain religion, and of course, elite whites as well. Who live in these cities, by the way? These power structures where all the jobs and growth are with an immigrant slave class. White working people and white middle class in London and Paris and New York in Los Angeles, they are gone, driven out by high rents, driven out by a service economy, driven out by crime, driven out by discrimination from local states. For young middle American men who have few employment prospects and are not given the opportunity for an education, they have two choices.  Here we demand a third alternative to live. We live in an era of growth without jobs, a crisis of political representation, and a ruling class that sees the people they rule as their enemy. We combine the socialist idea with the national idea which affirms white dignity and the right to majority rule which any leftist would support the right of in a non-white country. Today, the Judeo-Left has worked tirelessly in its war on white workers. They have ushered in an era of competing nationalisms, all controlled tentacles of Zionism and supremacy of a certain group, while whites are denied even the ability to compete in any kind of collective identity. As Kristof Giloy says, anti-fascism is the ideology of the rich and powerful. Fascism is seen by the elites as a populist response to the concept of the open society, an idea Wall Street criminals like George Soros have spent billions to export upon which liberal capitalism has predicated and those few who benefit preserve their power. While communists may style themselves as anti-fascists, they should remember that one of the arrows of the iron front, the symbol of Antifa, represents anti-communism as well. What really is the difference between liberalism and anti-fascism? Well, that's not so clear, is it? So I hope this debate will bring some clarity to this disagreement. Thanks so much. We will now kick it over, as I had mentioned, to Brenton for his five-minute opening statement as well. Brenton, the floor is all yours. Thanks for being here as well. Today is nationalism versus anti-fascism. And though our opponents are not simply nationalists, in a way it is very fitting that it is Caleb and I who are forming an ideological anti-fascist front. Because historically speaking, the first people to recognize fascism for what it is and the first line of defense against it are socialists, both the Marxist and libertarian varieties. The argument we are currently having is an old one, at least as old as the modern world. In 2020, we have the benefit of history on our side and can look back at these movements and see exactly where they will invariably lead. This is why Stryker and Enoch will tell you that they are nationalists, and in a certain totally wrong and incredibly deceptive sense, they are at least a little bit correct. Because nationalism, at its core, is poison. Like a poison, it ravaged Europe and Asia, not once, but twice, in less than a century. Nationalism brought about the greatest crime in all of human civilization, the single most horrifying blunder of any culture in all 250,000 years that our species have been on this planet. And when the wars were over and the trials were concluded and the guilty punished, nationalism nearly brought about the end of all life on Earth as we know it in a single nuclear holocaust. And to tell you the truth, it's still might. That's still on the table. And yet my esteemed interlocutors will tell you that they are nationalists. And to many, this will seem a perfectly reasonable and respectable label. Why? Well, because as any good chemist knows, the poison is in the dose. And that right there is their game. How, sir, can you speak such terrible slander of arsenic? Don't you know that arsenic saves lives? It treats leukemia. What do you have against cancer patients, you monster? Now please, sit there and have the tea that I have lovingly prepared for you. Why aren't you drinking it? Do you love cancer? Now that's ridiculous. But for the most part, that ridiculous statement is pretty much going to be every argument you're going to hear from them today.  This is because fascism is not a political ideology in the sense of anarchism, liberalism, Marxism, or feudalism. Fascism is a cluster of mostly incoherent beliefs based largely on action over thought, emotion over reason, obsessed with superficial appearances while lacking any substantial philosophical or ideological core. It is the appearance of strength and power, but it is not the thing itself. And it taps into the basis parts of our animal brains and leads its adherents down an incredibly dark and self-destructive road. As we debate, I would like everyone to remember the immortal words of Jean-Paul Sartre. Never believe that antisemites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge, but they are amusing themselves. For this is their adversary who has obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The antisemites have the right to play, they even like to play with discourse, for by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they do not seek to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Now hopefully, Enoch and Stryker will not fall into this pattern. After all, the only universal constant is change, and the past is the past. But still, some may wonder why I'm even bothering to have this conversation, given all of this. While others may ask what I offer besides criticism, and to them, I'm going to provide one final quote, this one from Daisaku Ikeda. It is the function of evil to divide, to alienate people from each other and to turn one country against the next. The universe, this world and our lives are a stage for a ceaseless struggle between hatred and compassion, between the destructive and constructive aspects of life. This is the evil over which we all must triumph. I believe that dialogue holds the key to any lasting solution. Words spoken from the heart have the power to change a person's life. They can even melt the icy walls of mistrust that separate peoples and nations. I am utterly convinced that we were not born into this world to hate and destroy each other. We must strive to make a profound reverence for life and human dignity, the prevailing spirit of our times, for ourselves, for our children, and for our planet. The real struggle of the 21st century will not be between civilizations nor religions. It will be between barbarity and civilization in the truest sense of the word. Sometimes you have to look the devil in the eye. That's what I'm here today to do. Thank you very much. We will now kick it over to Mike for his five minute opening statement as well. As I mentioned, it's a flexible opening statement, so the speakers can use whatever they would like from that five minutes. So Mike, floor is all yours. Sure. Thank you very much. Yeah. As we said, we are here representing the nationalist or third positionist position. My argument is that, one, white people, particularly in America and Europe, we have a right to collective self-organizing on our own behalf. This is a right that has been denied to us effectively by the Civil Rights Act, which is something we have talked about in the past. The Civil Rights Act created a spoil system that is where rights and privileges are divvied out on the basis of racial membership. This is something that white people are not allowed to play. White people are the majority in the United States. You would think in a democracy, politicians would appeal to a majority. They would make appeals based on that majority, yet they don't. And not only that, any politician that is even caught, the idea of is being caught. Have you been caught accidentally appealing to white? Is your program that you're suggesting going to benefit white people in any way? This is enough to discredit the politician and make them come crawling to the media who is owned by our good friends. We know who they are. They will become crawling to them for forgiveness simply for accidentally maybe saying something that might benefit white people. And so this is an intolerable situation for whites. Why should we? Why must we endure this? Is there some moral reasons, some moral or political reasons why we should deprive ourselves of this right of collective self-organizing? It doesn't make any sense, particularly when the very people that will tell you this, that we have some special thing wrong with us, where every time we've done it in the past, it's led to some sort of horrible atrocity. This is the argument. There's no actual argument similar to what is labeled fascism, national socialism. You can call me those words. I'm not going to run from it. But the thing is, what is the argument? There's no argument against the political program. There's no argument against the politics. The argument is overblown atrocity propaganda that was concocted by both the United States and the Soviet Union, which have committed atrocities of their own and have no moral standing on which to accuse others of atrocities. So the post-war atrocity propaganda that was used to attack the national socialist regime. It's paper thin. It can be argued against. You can see right through it if you actually apply some reason to some of these claims. Secondly, both of these regimes committed their own atrocities. So they have no moral ground on which to judge another country.  The next Hitler, the next Hitler, the next Hitler.  This is nothing but Victor's justice and Victor's history. And everybody believes it, including our friends that we're going to debate here. They believe it. And there's no political argument. What is a political argument against an economy and a society based on promoting the help and well-being of a nation, a group of people together as one? And it doesn't mean hatred of others. It doesn't have to mean hatred of others. Nothing that implies that. The idea that this is about war. I mean, who, if they support communism or capitalism, is standing on any ground with which to say the other person supports their ideology inevitably leads to war or atrocities or genocides. I mean, that's an absurd thing. We know about the problems that have happened with, we know about issues that have happened with the Soviet Union. I'm not even going to necessarily go overboard with that because I believe some of that stuff might be lies as well. But we know about the atrocities committed by the United States. We know about atrocities committed by the Soviet Union. So, again, who stands in judgment? Who stands in judgment against nationalism, against nationalism, fascism, whatever you might want to call it, collective self-organization of European peoples? If your ideology allows for a collective racial self-organization of other races, but not whites, then it's fundamentally unfair. And again, having a group of people organized on their own behalf as a nation does not imply hatred or genocide of any other group. The idea that it necessarily leads to that is simply a lie. They tell you to get you to run away from the idea of organizing on your own behalf. And that's all that we hear whenever white people raise their heads and try to be politically active in their own behalf. So there we go. You bet. Thanks so much, Mike. We will now switch it over for the final opening statement. This will be from Caleb. Caleb, thanks for being here. The floor is all yours. Well, I thought I actually, for my opening statement, might begin by reading from the book of Matthew. This is from the King James Bible. It says, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves, ye that shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, of figs, of thistles? Every so good tree brings forth good fruit.  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is honed down and cast into the fire. Wherefore, by the fruits ye shall know them. And I think that that's a pretty good introduction to the position that I take, which is that everywhere we have seen the ideas advocated by our opponents here put into practice. We've seen nothing but destruction as a result. Argue what you want about Hitler's intentions. But no one would say that the Second World War turned out well for Germany. No one would say that the Second World War turned out well for Italy. And no one would say that the South, the U.S. South, is at the most prosperous and happy part of the United States. If racial segregation, racial division, separatism was the answer, the U.S. South would be an economic paradise. But it's clearly not that. If you look at the U.S. South, the place where slavery had its homeland, the place that had Jim Crow segregation, white workers compared to black workers may have lived a little bit better, but compared to white workers throughout the rest of the country, they were suffering. That racism hurts all workers. At no point can you point to racial segregation and division as being to the benefit of working people. It is something used by the bosses to divide us. However, there's all this talk about the good old days. People talk about Pittsburgh and Detroit and Cleveland and the once industrial centers of the United States where people worked in factories and had very good wages. Well, why was it that those workers had such good wages? It was because the Communist Party built the CIO, a interracial anti-fascist union. And with the slogan, black and white, unite and fight, the major industries of the United States were unionized. And it was that struggle, that anti-racist struggle, anti-fascist struggle that resulted in the standard of living. People are now missing. People call it the American dream. But it was largely built by communists, organizing on the basis of anti-racism. At the Flint sit-down strike, the 1937 event that people call the Gettysburg of the labor movement. Communists organized the workers to seize their factory and demand that those who made automobiles be paid a decent wage. And when they marched out of the plant victorious, they made a point of having the only African-American worker in the plant be the one to carry the American flag to show that racism was something that they opposed. Meanwhile, it was fascists in the black legion, followers of Father Coglan, who didn't support the striking workers inside the plant, but mobilized to attack them and joined with the police to attack them.  But if you scratch the surface, you can see that they're always getting support from Henry Ford. They're always getting support from big bankers. They're always being armed and supported by the most wealthy. Because in essence, fascism is nothing but an attempt to preserve capitalism. Those of us who understand Marxism and scientific socialism and dialectical materialism understand that when capitalism enters a crisis, when the rate of profit is falling, when workers are being eliminated from the assembly line, when this takes place, there is a big crisis. Products can't be sold. Wages start going down. There's instability in society. So one section of the ruling class will attempt to seize control of the government and utilize the government to carry out mass destruction and political repression in the hopes of holding off the crisis. That's called Bonapartism. It is an attempt to resolve the crisis with mass political repression and save the system. And when that happens, when there are divisions among the ruling class, you'll see the socialist and workers movement join arm in arm and build a united front to try and beat it back. Fascism is nothing but an attempt to save capitalism. It is an attempt to preserve medieval hierarchies. And it is based on the premise that some people are naturally superior to others, that some races, some nationalities are superior. And that the benefit for all humanity comes from one section of humanity beating down, repressing and grinding another section of humanity into poverty. Well, I would argue the opposite. I think China is a great example. The reason that China is now the second largest economy in the world is because they kicked out international capitalism by forming an anti-fascist united front. When Mao built the People's Liberation Army that fought off the Japanese invaders, that was not a racist army. That army not only had Han Chinese in it, it had Tibetans. That army had Uyghurs. That army had Mongolians. That army had Koreans. They joined arm in arm. They got support from the Soviet Union. They got support from other countries.  And it began the process that has now made China the second largest economy in the world. China has gone from being one of the poorest countries on earth to being a global superpower by joining arm in arm, by embracing anti-fascism, by organizing the economy rationally to serve public good, and rejecting this notion that some people should be exalted over others while other people get ground into the dirt. This notion that the way to get salvation for the white working class is by further beating down other people, by engaging in mass incarceration, by escalating the repression of immigrants, by strengthening the police state and allowing further political repression. This is a lie. I believe the hope for all humanity comes by lifting people up, not tearing people down, not trying to restore the past, not glorifying medieval hierarchies, slavery and primitivism and barbarism. I believe that we should look to the future and not the past. That's my opening statement. Thank you very much. We will now kick into open discussion. So thanks, gentlemen, and the floor is all yours. Okay, quickly, just two points I'm gonna make real quick and then we can go to the next slide. First of all, Caleb, Caleb said a lot of things there. He mentioned the Communist Party and the CIO what in the 1930s, Communist Party USA endorsed Hillary Clinton for president in 2016. Okay, so give me a break with the Communist Party. That's not accurate. They urged people to vote against Donald Trump but they did not endorse Hillary Clinton. Oh, in that case. Okay, so. Plus, did it like the CP on the left is that the CP USA are just edgy Democrats? We're talking about 80 years later.  So you're not endorsing Hillary Clinton. You're just saying vote for the Democrat against Trump. What does that have to do with anything? Fair enough. What does that have to do with the fact? So, the second thing. Caleb isn't a member of the CP USA. The unions weren't built. Is that what you're saying? No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, what I am saying here, what I am saying here is that you're talking about an outdated form of the Communist Party that has no bearing on what communists do today because the communists today are really led largely by the DSA and I know you don't like Trump. He talked about China. He didn't say anything about the DSA. Well, we'll get to that in a minute. No, I mean. The point is, the point is this. Let's throw all of the leftists. This guy says fascism is capitalism and crisis. Who was, who, who did the Len Lise support in the war? When, when the Germans and the Soviets signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and they both invaded Poland around the same time. That's false. That's false. Who did the British declare war on over the sovereignty of Poland? It was the Germans. They decided between the two that the ones who get punished for the sovereignty of Poland were the Germans. Second of all, a relationship. Hang on, hang on, hang on. What you're saying, what's going on right here is you're taking a very selective reading of history. The fact is, is that early on fascist movements had the support of the liberal capitalist class, which is why, for instance, Francisco Franco, even though the United States had officially said they would not get involved in the Spanish Revolution, specifically Texaco fronted Franco with the world's first credit card where he gave Franco all of the oil that he needed to run his war machine without the United States. No, no, before the war and with no money down. He just gave them all the- The philandrous movement was openly anti-capitalist. The arms that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was- They can be openly anti-capitalist, but the capitalists, the fact is that the capitalists still believe that. Congress had told Franklin Delano Roosevelt to send arms, for example, to Finland to fight against the Soviets and he never did it. The same is true for many different people. Brigands, basically. Again, it doesn't matter. We got together to go fight in Spain on behalf of the communists with the full support of the US government. Oh, no, no, not the full support of the US government. The US government officially had a position of the United States. The United States, okay, the United States government and the Soviet Union re-established relations in 1933. It was the son of a Jewish banker named Litvinov, the foreign minister.  He met with Henry Morgenthau, another Jewish banker. Who cares? To re-establish relationships between the so-called most rapacious capitalist power and the worst Stalinist power. So give me a break. Yeah, it's amazing that when fascism is the enemy, there's some strange bedfellows and war. So then the capitalists don't support the vassals. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on with me. Just one second, guys. We've got two or three people speaking at the same time. Is, I promise, let's just take. Folks, Eric knows stuff about World War II. That proves the communists didn't raise people out of poverty. That's what we're doing. Who did that? No one's talking about that. No one's talking about that. Can I actually respond to something that Mike had said, by the way? There was the original point here. One sec, let's go back to that original point that Brenton was wanting to address. Go ahead, Brenton. Okay, so this actually goes back to something Mike had said. Now there were three points here. I'm gonna do two really quickly. And if I have time, I'm gonna do number three. Mike, you asked who. Why can't you just do one? And then we'll trade off. One, okay, I'll do one. So I'll just move straight to my main one here. You said that this isn't about hate, that this is about white people's self-determination, but I'm sorry, that's a lie. You had, on your program, a man by the name of, jeez, Jalen De La Rae. Oh boy. He's an ex-mercenary, and I assume he's an ex-mercenary in the world for everybody in a small town. So what? Like somebody, he came on your program and he said there is no version of segregation that will ever work. All right, well, I disagree with that position. I disagree with that position. You didn't disagree with him on the show. Oh, all right. Well, so what? You actually, you supported him on the show. You said, you said that's tough. I agree that segregation is not an ideal position. I actually agree. I don't think that you should have a segregation.  I don't, I do not accept the characterization that that's what I'm saying. And of course, That's what he was saying. Well, he's wrong. Well, good. I'm glad you acknowledged that he's wrong. And that's not the point of this. See, this is exactly. Why are you going to bring somebody on your show who's an unironic exterminationist? Like I'm not going to do that on my show. Caleb's not going to do that on his. Oh, really? So you don't, so you don't believe in class struggle where you're going to basically exterminate the bourgeoisie. You don't believe in that. Oh, I know. Okay, first off, class struggle isn't going to exterminate the bourgeoisie, right? All right, all right, all right. Listen, I don't advocate murder. This idea, I want to respond to some I want to respond to some I want to respond to some I want to respond to some I want to respond to some things you haven't heard you haven't heard much from Mike yet. So the point here is that this guy is kicking over to Mike. Let him respond much from Mike yet. The issue here that I keep hearing this idea that are, you know, and I've heard this before. I was the Communist at one point in my youth I was. I was interested in Marxism and I was interested in anarchism. I abandoned that for Marxism. And then I realized that a lot of this stuff is is not really well put together. this idea that fascism is bourgeoisie and crisis is capitalism is crisis fascism is called upon to rescue capitalism when it's in crisis it seems to me ridiculous because the biggest the capitalist and communist powers of the world teamed up together to destroy the one national socialist state that existed yeah and this is this is not the first time this is not the first time that this has happened uh so when you have who in reality is the one that is right now let's talk about right now let's talk about right now who in reality right now is supported by the police state and the fbi in repressing people nationalists that want to protest against open borders i mean to protest for white workers what in reality have what is the reality no no what in reality happens right now who is actually teaming up with the fbi that is actually have secret connections with the fbi how turner actually was a white supremacist and the fbi paid for his program he was an fbi employment he was an fbi informant well they gave him millions of dollars to preach the same as a police informant well i'll come right back to you kaila guys moderators talking i'll come right back to you kaila i just let's let mic finish up this question and i promise kaila i'll come right back to you how turner was an f was was an fbi informant obviously when you have a movement that the establishment feels threatened by they're interested in finding people inside these movements and turning them so that they can spy on people so they can get evidence on them so that they can try and pin get them pinned down and show trials and things like that like i was involved in a show trial which unfortunately i was able to beat by being you know pretty smart about my legal strategy but the point is that when you actually have right to today do you see antifa do you see common people of self style communists or anarchists or whatever they want to call themselves who is it that is actually out there supporting the system it's supported by the system these are people who go out so we don't even know i can't be more systemic about that yeah i'll tell you i will go read any number of of of media i know very well i just waited the homes the freedom road socialist organization i've seen lots of political repression uh i mean this is this notion fbi showed up that my friend the freedom road the freedom road socialist organization is a tanky group i have a i have a friend who is in jail right now for one year in upstate new york for antifa activity we gone from from he was involved in a street fight and they decided to make it so he assaulted someone okay he assaulted somebody okay so there you go i know him very well all right in fact i saw at the Invictus debate he was the guy that uh that one of the proud boys tried to attack out of the proud boys let's go boys aren't in jail one second we got ourselves from attack okay the proud boys essentially were exiting a building when they were attacked by antifa thugs that is a lie no it's not a lie that was a lie it's on video the fact that these guys did exactly it doesn't mean they didn't start it one second they lost a fight i don't i don't care about who's starting what maybe like that's what matters when you know like you said you wanted to have a real discussion please don't please okay then stop yelling over me but all right the matt the modeling on uh i don't want to mute people because i feel like i you guys are our guests so i you know the the reason we have you honest to hear you guys so you got to control just one guy because he keeps streaming over people like i don't want to be yelling i want to make my point but he gets upset and he can't control himself let's give uh we'll kick it back to mike for a brief and mike just as you yourself had said we are kind of just one point at a time and then we'll kick it back over to brenton or kaleb right so the proud boys in terms of that they were attacked and ambushed and they they defended themselves nobody i think should be put in jail for winning a fight that someone else starts you say who what does it matter who starts it what matters who starts it is that's how you delegate responsibility in a violent act altercation the person that throws the first punch person that throws the first rock the person that throws the first bottle is the one that's that's uh morally responsible for the fight nobody uh condemns of someone for defending themselves and if you defend yourself and win good for you so no i don't i take the proud boys side and that 100 i've seen the videos and i've also been myself involved in street protests where we were out there to engage in our constitutional right to protest and we were assaulted by people calling themselves antifa we didn't start it whatever you hear in the media you know the media of course backs antifa they are another arm of antifa i mean antifa anti fascism is the ruling ideology of the united states at the time right now now you might say oh that's different i'm special and i'm a different kind of anti fascism but this is the facts okay let me talk okay so uh keelover brenton yeah so you asked um really quickly you asked uh where we're come from where the united states comes from uh criticizing germany that is a two-quokay fallacy the fact is is that even if the united states or anyone else is a hypocrite that doesn't make them wrong a doctor who tells you not to smoke if that doctor smokes it's still good sound medical advice so straight up there that's just a non-argument now white people you mentioned this white people have a right to collective self-organizing here's the problem race isn't real or rather it's real in the kind of way money is or in the way the gender is real what do you put down that's pretty freaking real to me so put down all the things that are in my product can i finish can i finish can i finish race is a mental tool it is used by sovereign power as a means of managing populations that it thinks are unmanageable the whole thing going it looks at a group of people says oh you people are shady everyone like this like it so you know watch it buddy the reason white people are not subjected to this they do not feel the state doesn't feel they need to manage us unless we go out and for instance like with your groups you mentioned you were responsible for 100 of the politically motivated violence in 2018 with the exception you were also i'll respond to that when he's done so yeah thank you you can respond to that when i'm done um with the exception of sovereign citizens uh the fact is is that whiteness is not a race it is a lack of racialization the government doesn't come up to me and look at me and say hey brent looks shady because he's white it looks at me and it says hey brent looks shady because he looks like a rudderless hippie oh god it is completely different when you move on to different uh groups and you say like white people can't get together and organize kaleb and i met at occupy wall street you're bitch your ass we got in there and organized i do want to let me let me talk okay first of all uh the idea that white is a social construct whatever uh first of all race is a social construct okay race is a social construct well tell that to all tell that that's a china no no no hold on i will tell hey china race is a social construct let me let me let me talk let me talk tell that to the freedom road socialist party that supports ethno states for every single race separate ethno states they call it the right to self-determination okay for blacks Puerto Ricans uh i think in mexico chicanos and fucking uh uh asians and everyone okay yeah i've seen those maps it's they're ridiculous yes that's what the freedom that's the freedom road socialist party buddy kaleb's okay screw the freedom road socialist party okay they believe in race okay so kaleb what are you what i'm saying what i'm saying is that if we live in a country let's pretend for a second that you know all sciences is is nonsense that that that science isn't real that genetics aren't real and that in fact uh uh let's pretend i'll grant you that for a second just as a thought experiment let's pretend for a second if everyone else believes that everyone else of every other race believes that it's in your interest as a white man to organize on those foundations as well because if not you will be a single solitary figure against a group so it's a form of collective identity that's where people get power from so that's the first thing the second thing i want to address the the the hoax you know you always say oh uh uh we're not liberals we're radicals and we're radical anti-fascists we lead the anti-fascists with communists and socials well bro you're reading shit from the southern poverty law center which is funded by millionaires and millionaires of billionaires you're reading statistics collects collected by the anti-defamation no i'm not a group well that's those are the people where are you excuse me friend excuse Daniel Harper says hi let me let me let me finish your friend let me finish let me finish Daniel Harper is also a warren guy so you know what who cares what you know war like he's into elizabeth warren yes he's a rad lib he's a rad lib so anyway okay let me just finish my point about the the crime the crime statistics were uh the the anti-defamation league were the ones who came up with the statistics that white nationalists lead in terrorism and killing people or rather but you know what what group were these people in were they in the kukluks clan were they in the national socialist movement were they a traditionalist worker party a day Europa anything the closest the only thing they can get is the the shawlsville death of heather higher which you know i'm not gonna expect you to grant me i'm not gonna expect you to grant me that it's it's a gray area but i will say this how many people are killed every year in the name of anti-racism have you heard about the molson plant attack were six innocent workers were shot to death by a crazy black man who said he did it because the white people there were racist he did it in the name of anti-racism on top of that when it when it hit twitter the mass media the mass media applauded it washington post wrote an article rationalizing it and people on twitter were saying oh maybe he was right to kill those innocent people there's no there's no evidence the very fact that the mass media went behind that is showing me that you're lying about this let's kick it off the washroom post wrote an article rationalizing it yeah i'll read the article later yeah number of points from eric it will go can kaleb talk he's been a while or i if you want me i can respond let me make clear i have nothing to do with antifa i know nothing about antifa altercations and i i'm not interested in debating that kind of get up rent is free to to talk about that if he wants but that's not my i don't have anything to do with antifa either i support as far as the second world war and i know we don't want to debate the second world war too much but the the issue was that after the first world war germany was stripped of its colonies uh it had been an imperial power it had been stripped of its colonies under hitler uh the you know industrial capitalists like kruppen tyson centered around hollamer schacht a banker took control of the government they crushed the communists they exterminated the labor movement they outlawed strikes uh they put a whole bunch of people in concentration camps they restarted armaments manufacturing and then they went about trying to reclaim territory and colonies and the british let them do it for a long time neville chamberland wanted they were people were very happy they thought they would get rid of the soviet union for them but they pushed it too far and they became competitors with the british and the americans and at the point that they became competitors with the british and the americans uh the british and the americans then teamed up with the soviet union but prior to the signing of the malatav ribbon trap pack the soviet union had gone to france it had gone to germany or not germany obviously it had gone to the united states to the british and asked them to form an anti fascist coalition and this was denied uh henry ford was a huge admirer of the nazis uh the national association of manufacturers henry morgan they even attempted a fascist to a military coup against roosevelt you can call it you read about it it's called the business plot right because roosevelt was helping working people and giving them things like social security and education and supporting their labor unions because of that strike breakers like the uh the you know black legion like the silver legion of america like the coup cluck's clan uh you know you guys claim you support working people but but throughout the history of fascism fascists are an army of strike breakers every time workers want their rights uh the fascists are called up to come and beat the beat the strikers down because they're a bunch of commies we got to beat them back they're commies don't you know uh you know and and this is the weird thing you guys claim to be critical of capitalism whether it's hitler whether it's musolini whether it's george lincoln rockwell every fascist speech i've ever heard begins with communists or evil communists need to be exterminated hatred for communists that is central that is just absolutely central right and and you know you look at libya right i mean i mean libya was freed from colonialism and broke out of western capitalism under gaddafi with the islamic socialist model but it was musolini who brutally murdered people all across libya you know i mean oh marmoto it was the united states that brutally murdered doffy you know it was the united states i don't know if that's what i'm talking about it was torn apart by like a mob of his own people hold on one second let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's finish up and then i'll go over like south africa like rhodesia right i mean i mean you guys aren't anti-globalist you're not anti-capitalist you're strikebreakers you're in favor of colonialism and imperialism yeah you know maybe you're with a faction that isn't dominant in it the british the british empire is horrendous there's no no question about it winston churchill was a monster he's responsible yeah and he's your nor nor nor you need some kind of death in a single year pretty sooner i want to get over the only problem he had was that he wasn't as good at it as him i mean it was the germans wanted to do what the british were doing they were jealous they wanted they wanted to compete got you we'll kick it over to mike thanks so much okay well yeah i wanted to actually talk about shack for a second it's really funny that you mentioned him because striker and i were just talking about him today on our show when we were talking about uh basically the economic uh plan that hitler put in place in 1933 his first four-year plan wasn't a five-year plan like you know china does and like the stylist did uh and in fact shack was on he i believe he was one of the top bankers in germany but hitler regularly referred to him as a tool of globalist liberalism he didn't listen to him the person that engineered the economic uh turnaround in germany which nobody can deny actually no one can deny the economic turnaround between 1933 and 1938 in germany and the armaments manufacturer actually didn't start up again until around 1938 uh this was not how they revitalized their economy a lot of the programs that they did i could list them off you would probably agree with them and i agree with them and these are the kinds of things i would like to see the united states do today and i think that these could be done in a very effective way such as large infrastructure projects giving people direct money handouts to people in order to buy products to refurbish their homes to buy furniture to buy cars this is all part of and then increased demand increased production and it brought germany back from the brink that they had been you know one their currency had been destroyed by the uh you know the agreement post-war that the the other powers had uh subjected them to along with the reparations i mean we could go into the long history of this but schacht was not the guy that did this it was what was the name reinhardt i forget is was it fritz fritz reinhardt striker tell me right right reinhardt yes reinhardt was actually the master of the four-year plan yes he was he was the economic advisor who came up with the first four-year plan which managed to shrink germany unemployment to something like 400 000 people from like millions of people to about 400 000 people had managed to bring their economy back had increased production in uh you know appliances autos furniture had brought back agriculture and and all of this so this is this is the kind of programs that the uh national socialists engaged upon in their first four years so you could talk about how like they only did it by bringing the boot down on this or that guy and it was this brutal capitalism it wasn't they didn't the the the the fact that they were funded by capitalists is simply a lie that the Soviet Union put out there later on the national socialist party was initially funded by it contributions from from members and so now we you're never going to believe that so i don't expect you to grant it but like uh it is true and so the point is that this is this is this they they were not supported by big capital and in fact why is it that these uh that the big capitalist powers like you you're not going to find in me any apologist 25 british empire for winston church look for the united states government you know i'm not going to these these in my opinions are some of the most monstrous governments i mean you want to talk about people that gas people there and we need church though right there he's a poison gas man you want those are real antifa he wanted to play and that guy here that's the real antifascist right there those are the really we're going to take it over that's a good number of points i'm basically doing like a three minute interval so all right let's go let's just it's been we've got a good rhythm now so we'll kick it back over to brenton okay so uh first off you said um the all this stuff about um uh social programs that we have and kaleb can go more into that than me but what i'm going to tell you right off the bat is you can have those social programs without a racial component and you can have them without stealing from a minority group which is exactly what they did um but i wanted to actually go back to something that striker had brought up because he said we throw science under the bus and this comes from a paper genetic similarities within human populations our analysis focuses on the frequency of w with which a pair of random individuals from two different populations is genetically more similar than a pair of individuals randomly selected from a single population w no it's a witherspoon wooden bat sir and jard um w remains the same even when using populations as distinct as sub-saharan africans and europeans phenotype controlled by a dozen or fewer loci can therefore be expected to show substantial overlap between human populations this provides empirical justification for caution when using population labels in biomedical settings with broad implications personalized medicine pharma code genetics and the meaning of race now what does that mean in simple terms it means that because of the way genetics functions within human populations i can have more genetically similar with somebody from sub-saharan africa than i do with kaleb or any of you and the same is true for you guys the fact is is that genetics moves through human population in a bucket chain it moves like waves underneath the surface each group of people breeds with the group next to them then that group breeds with the group next to them and the group next to them and suddenly these genetics travel all over the planet furthermore genetics cannot it does not support race because of what we what we think of as a toba catastrophe theory at one point in our history the toba volcano exploded it was a super volcano and it wound up reducing the population of humans on the planet to some two thousand or so individuals all of us come from those two thousand humans are one of the most or i'm sorry one of the least genetically diverse species on the planet there is almost more genetic diversity in a single flock of pigeons than the entire human species so there is no genetic basis for race this is an illusion that is created by because it was uh it was convenient for the great powers of europe and it and it's starting to no longer be a thing because it is less convenient and also because we have learned to look beyond our animal natures and we're continuing to move towards what you're saying race is in the animal nature then let let well then that's race it out we do we can come back and we might just let him finish give me for cutting you off but just to uh we're gonna let brenton finish you got about roughly 60 seconds brenton we'll go over to eric over there okay what i'm gonna say is that does not contradict the battle uh between compassion and hatred is in each and every one of our hearts there are savage parts of our nature and there are beautiful parts of our nature and racism and seeing grouping people into race is dropping into that lizard brain that dumb guy rule that goes uh that looks different than me me no like and when the fact is we are all so much more similar than like anybody even had an idea and this is a an objective genetic fact thank you thanks so much go ahead eric yeah well i mean after that you know the idea sure you can find you can quote a paper uh of any kind for any reason the founder the reason why you're not going to get open debate on race and open affirmation of race by scientists is frankly because the the academic the academic structure will shut you down ruin your life and make you die as a evil doer well they do to watch predict if you well that's what i was getting at james watson the very person who discovered dna the geneticists who discovered it uh when he said that that race is real and intelligence and intelligence is is part of race that you can predict intelligence based on race they took away all of his titles they took away all of his awards and the man his life is ruined this is an elderly person's life is ruined because he said a bunch of bullshit all right you're not letting you're not you're not you agree with the state like like shooting all over a scientist ruining his life because yeah so then you're you just agree with the liberal order because you think this well let me let me let me let me let me let me necessarily agree with the liberal order but that's all right i interrupted it's my mistake okay here's the things here's the thing universities the science science and the academy are two different things okay because science the science as you guys i assume as people that have a class analysis at the very least will understand that private universities depend on private grants many times from billionaires with their own motives who expect a certain conclusion from science that's why the pritzker's a transvestite is funding the university of medicine in Chicago to pretend that trannies are like that a man can become a woman and you can laugh all you want and you can probably cite me 10 studies about how a biological man can be a woman the problem is we the people the majority know that that's stupid just like no such thing as a biological man just like yeah exactly just like okay so let me finish you don't want to argue about let's strike or finish let's just like in Caleb's style is utopia the the soviet government said that we must prove lamar chism lamar chism which is an attack on on medallion genetics that we must stay stick to this line because it's part of our political ideology and so this goes back to what me and michael say liberalism is the true anti fascism neoliberal capitalism is anti fascism because that is the one that breaks down collective identities of race of gender you think not not for nothing brenton but if you went to the ussr and you went around talking about how men are actually not real and that men can become women they would put you in a mental institution so give me a break no one actually believes in this stuff this is pure ideological propaganda funded by billionaires who give money to universities to come to these conclusions hold on one sec i just to keep it because you've got such a good rhythm go ahead kill okay well um and it's interesting there claims to be this opposition to the british empire but i'm hearing scientific racism which is something the british empire widely promoted um i'm hearing i don't think in fascist states colonialism uh and and that's something the british empire knew about pretty well um you know i'm hearing all of this this criticism of winston churchill which is which is great but i'm seeing people who actually believe in the ideas that he extolled uh i mean this is this is pretty ridiculous now um as far as the the point about uh you know i mean when you talk about i mean i'm hearing you know all the scientific racism that's the latest i'm hearing attempts to claim that that that you know that somehow the soviet union were the bad guys in the second world war again this is what we're hearing from nato right now right this is this is timothy snider of yale that this this narrative that hitler was the good guy in world war two and the evil russians are the bad ones that's that is that is the narrative being pushed by the european union that's the narrative being pushed in poland where they're tearing down world war two memorials um you know i mean this you guys are pushing this is cnn this is cnn right well you know stalin killed more people than home by home by the real bad guys who never said that do this this is cnn i never said that meanwhile meanwhile you i mean when it gets down to it you all are zionists right your whole platform is you want to create a white man's israel well i'll tell you israel look at the middle east that's what the black panthers run out too well so i don't think carving out a white man's israel in the middle of the united states in 2020 is going to work out too well either right you guys love racial separate supremacist states you love apartheid in south africa you love rhodesia but somehow you don't like israel just because you don't like jews because your bigots that's all it is right you guys love the british empire you love scientific racism you believe some people are better than others you're not you are not anti-capitalist you basically what this system believes in natural hierarchies and all of that just in a way way amped up level that's really the only difference between you guys in this the established order and let me make the point about anti-fascist you say liberalism is the anti-fascism well the cia you know with the congress for cultural freedom program with uh you know you talk about susan santag and theodore adorno they funded like crazy all kinds of so so-called anti-fascism and that was to erase the marxist anti-fascism they had operation gladio to make sure that the communists didn't win the elections in italy after the second world war because the population loved the communists so much because they had been anti-fascist fighters with their partisan brigades right that the liberal anti-fascism that you're critiquing was created to prevent people from adopting marxist anti-fascism that's really what it's about marxists understand fascism in a scientific way in an economic way uh this this psychoanalytic thing that you know that fascism is the result of the lack of masturbation and sexual freedom or some weird stuff you know willhelm reich and all of that that's not marxism they hate marxism they have done their best to water it down that's what freedom and and what you're ranting against what you label marxism uh you know is not marxism right i mean we're gonna talk about the soviet union there i mean i'm sorry but if you compare what people are the commenters that the germans sorry actual marxism exists we've got to switch it over to mic go ahead mic well actually i first of all i i don't actually disagree with you when you're saying that a lot of the the antifa stuff the the sort of liberal the sort of extreme uh liberal antifa that we see now actually was put in place uh by the governments to freeze out with actual marx i agree with that i think you're right about that and as someone who has studied uh marxism i don't just i don't agree with a lot of it but i think that it's certainly your movement reaches i don't know i'm here we're communists we need a revolution against communism one second right it's communist my kaila worked with me right okay so go ahead mic all right so so thank you well first of all you know i i don't disagree with that um i i certainly think that you know tankism or whatever you want to say is say you are marxist like this this is certainly better than this sort of liberal like hyper liberal antifa that we have now i think your statements that you know the e you is supporting the idea that the nazis for the good guys in world war two is beyond is so completely absurd that i can't even really respond to i mean e you if you go and you say something like that in most e you countries you run the risk of getting put in jail if you i mean it is literally illegal i mean what's the biggest and most powerful country in the e you it's germany they have a law against anything saying anything good about the nazis literally if they if they suspect you're trying to rehab the nazis you go to jail and this is the most powerful country in the e you so that's an absurd statement and maybe if there's one academic you i don't i'm not familiar with there's one academic who's who said this recently in a paper or something fine so that's not this is not like an establishment view that the nazis were the good guys in world war two i mean this is this is an absurd statement and and it's and it's i can only assume that it's based on some kind of extreme perspective bias on your part i mean i don't accuse you of that but it seems to me that an objective look at the united states and at the e you would not have you saying that they considered the nazis to actually have been the good guys now it's true that general patent thought so and what happened to him but uh you know he kind of regretted everything that happened later on and certainly there were some people that went over for the trials and things like that and they were like wow these show trials are really kind of over the top and this is kind of messed up but um you know i i think that these these are absurd statements this idea i mean and but let's look at right now on the race thing i would say like we could argue genetics i don't i mean i don't that's do white do two white parents have a white baby into two black parents have a black baby if you can show me white parents having a black baby and and uh black parents having a white baby then maybe i'll believe you until you can show that i'm not talking about albinos that's a specific congenital disorder oh i see brenton get a google he's gonna google right so what i'm saying well whatever like we all know and again you mentioned you mentioned israel like you know go preach to israel this stuff because that's if you're so against it why isn't israel like number one on your enemy's list it's why are you here talking about totally out of power white men in the united states that are actually trying to fight for some amount of political legitimacy and representation you know with the neoliberal order on the same effectively the same side as the neoliberal order thanks so much appreciate that going back to brenton uh let's see oh oh so sorry i don't even remember muting you i know it was weird i was actually telling everybody to listen to mike okay so um just to respond really quickly um the the question that was asked to me is why am i not more critical of israel anyone that knows me knows that i am very critical of israel i have lost friends i have lost employers because i have been sickened by what the israelis have done to the palestinians and i have won't lose them you won't lose employment if you attack my national work with me thank you um all right so that that's the first thing the second thing as i said race is based upon characteristics that are basically skin deep they do not have a genetic basis so parents can give birth to children that appear to be more white or or whatever but the thing is is that that perception the fact that that is a race as opposed to natural variation within a race for instance um um uh gingers are not considered a separate race even though they look incredibly different than the rest of us that is distinct from i i oppose the genetic one thing or rhetoric i promise we'll come back they don't have souls i have that on good authority um no so that's the first thing the second thing is i've got here because we brought up gender i figured it might come up uh this is actually from um nature uh journal this is the most prominent scientific journal in the western world and this is about when uh trump was trying to have the basis of determining gender based upon your bio or like your your sex organs it has no foundation in science and would undo decades of progress on the understanding of sex a classification based on internal and external bodily characteristics and gender a social construct related to biological differences but also rooted in culture societal norms and individual behavior so you've got sex sex is your biology it's your dangly bits and everything else in your chromosomes then you have gender gender is the part of society that looks at that and goes hmm this person has dangly bits therefore they should that is gender that is what the idea of what a man is man and woman these are ideals like platonic ideals that exist along a bimodal spectrum that people of different sexes fit into secondly the genetics that we have shows that actual sex like classification for scientists is actually more complicated than simply male and female and we know this because nature is a mad scientist and she doesn't give a crap what humans think about what a person's dangly bits mean clownfish for instance change sex when there are no females around it's like uh which makes finding Nemo all kinds of weird but the fact is is that it's not as simple as what we were all taught in school um you have to look at this from a philosophical standpoint and through a lens like that don't just fall back on an argument of incredulity because the fact is is that we all have stuff to learn especially from science let me go okay yeah you win the working class right this is i don't give a shit like yeah you don't care about you don't care about the working class because you're a true and we're going to eric here you're a tool of the liberals and the only people that believe that crap you just spouted are fucking rich jewish liberals those are the only people that believe that nonsense that a man in a tutu is a woman okay you ask a guy a guy to you and a real working person and tell them that stuff they'll laugh in your face of any race by the way of any race oh no if and if it's a black person they'll probably punch you so give me a break with that stuff i mean it just discredits your argument when you go oh race isn't real but also gender isn't real and also all these things that are self-evident things that are intuitive things that that that human beings have always believed forever that are true exactly you're dumb one sec you gotta let that out one second right and all you can do to people that that realize that you guys you liberals are full of shit is call them names and that's why leftist can't win elections okay that's why you got you get blown out by the lamest conservatives in europe the lamest freaking dollar store donald trump in in britain swept the british election and it's not because people like him it's because people hear people like you and they get freaked the hell out okay because you are only motivated by destruction you are a what edward dotton would call a mutant you are a person who just wants to destroy all forms of collective identity i love the comic book reference here this is your worldview this is what encompasses your worldview oh comic books great well who's a bad guy an x-man was a jew by the way but anyway uh on top of that you know this the idea that first of all you call people don't well there's a lot of dumb people i don't care if people are dumb i'll advocate for dumb people okay so my point is that something that i'm kind of this three-minute interval i'm kind of letting eric and uh and uh mike share so i promise the next three-minute interval if you rent and and kill him if you want to share it you can but just to keep it on one side for this part well let me let me just say this that you know the the they're look at the let's use a marxist a marxist point of view on this how the only people that believe in this liberal maximalist ideology of sexual liberation of homosexuality of every lifestyle is legitimate let's abolish the family which by the way engels believed as well these things don't make the world a better place okay you know you know it's been studied actually that one of the number one predictors of a person who will be successful in life is a strong family okay and you people on the left all you do is attack the traditional family you want to abolish the traditional family and the reason for that is that because many of you are in the bourgeoisie you have strong families you have privileges economic privileges connections rich parents whatever things that we working men we don't have that so we need our families we need our race and we need our nation that's the difference between us it doesn't matter what some suit of science from nature magazine which says all kinds of crap switch it over to Caleb okay i think we got that last point and then we're going to switch over to Caleb and uh and like i said if you guys want to split it whatever way you want you can and this is probably i'm trying to remember who how we started with these intervals uh at one point if one side is willing to yield to the other otherwise i'll flip a coin in terms of who will go last before we go into the q and a although if i remember right we do have closings of which you guys can basically choose how much of your five minute closing you'll use and so maybe i think that we did start when we did this interval thing Caleb i think was the last person on the first round so maybe what we'll do is we'll go Caleb for the three minutes and then we'll go into the closing statement starting with Mike then going Brenton well i'd like to have the last word in this closing because Caleb got the last word on the opening yeah i'm a striker on myself well wait striker got the first word though right oh okay all right so okay that's fine i just want like but you want it to be fair it's cool well we'll make sure it's fair do you said me and Caleb can take this really quickly because it would actually be right for three minutes before the before we start really quickly i just want to add off um so so striker i'm wondering if you work in a i'm really wondering if you work in a movie theater because that was some epic levels of projection uh the idea that me and Caleb are like representatives of the bourgeoisie dude we were both on the ground at occupy wall street i was needed in the spine by a who was i was i was i see you wall street okay there's like people there i was need in the spine by a cop and thrown through a line of motorcycles both of us bonded over covering the cecily mcmillan trial uh we have seen the way that the state treats um radicals i i saw it myself when like bloomberg um ordered the n y like he made an agreement with the editor of the new york times that he would take his side before he cleared zuccotti park and they deployed freaking police helicopters to prevent coverage from uh the air and they and to prevent journalists like calib from covering it from the ground so don't tell us that we're not working class or whatever also i'm married with a child calib is married neither one of us are attacking the the family like i i'm here in some some pain and i don't mean that you know obviously you got some family issues and that's okay a lot of people do but like the thing is psychoanalyzing me don't don't what i'm saying is all i what i'm what i'm saying is don't project that on to us don't assume that we're that these liberals that you that you've talked to that these other um places are making arguments that we're not don't put words in our mouth that's just that's what i said we're the only people that believe in transgenderism are liberals and then let's go back to calib well it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not it's a fact we've got like maybe okay calib uh if you want to make a i think we have enough for you to make like a single quick point otherwise we'll go to closing statements well i think i'll just explain you know i guess first of all um i i want to respond i guess to what mic said earlier because this narrative uh that the soviet union was not heroic in fighting fascism is being pushed widely by the establishment right now uh you know from harvard from yale i mean go to the go to the bookstore you'll find loads of books trying to say that the soviets were worse than the nazis uh the the soviet anti-fascism was not heroic they're tearing down world war two memorials right now uh people are being threatened uh for for honoring uh anti-fascist resistance fighters all over eastern europe and i will add that after the second world war uh the united states embraced people who talk like you all over the world they reinstalled the shah of iran a brutal dictator who actually referred to his people as arian's and had been why are you characterizing i don't support the shah at all i'm very proud and i think we're we're going to like the government that's installed there agrees with your narrative of world war two you guys have the nato european union narrative of world war two that the russians were the main bad guys uh and and that's just a fact okay i'm sorry uh look at anything about russia look at anything about world war two history being pushed by the american establishment you get this message that the soviets were the main bad guys that just to keep just to keep the times totally equal i'm so sorry to interrupt kaleb but just to be fair uh i think with that single point we'll move into the closings and so thanks so much for your patience fellows it's been a wild one we will kick it over to mike for the first closing statement do i understand right you had a concern i think that well no one of them goes first so that we can have the last closing statement okay i'm trying to remember because generally the advantage goes to the very first statement and then the very last statement and so i'm trying to remember who started i think you're right okay so hold on hold on hold on hold on the opening statements went striker brentin me kaleb so let's do it in reverse but let's let's i want i want one of us to have the last statement is what i'm saying because they got the last opening statement so sorry was one of them i think that the advantage though generally like i mean and there's even like empirical data on psychology like the very first thing in the very last thing are the most memorable so like i think the advantage is usually like the very first five minute or whatever however long statement and then the very last whatever i feel like kaleb should end it because of course of course you would feel like that because i stepped all over him in the in the in the three minute thing but but i did get the first statement of the debate he should one of us should get the last statement of the debate and i would say that should be kaleb not me because i stepped all over kaleb earlier let kaleb do it he's just gonna repeat comment turned stuff from the 30s okay so we'll go over to um what we might as well i think keep the order then that we were going so if we want to start with mike then go over to brentin then eric and then kaleb and these will just be the last statements before q and a so who's going so we'll start with mike and this is as long or as short as you'd like it to be but as long as it's not over five minutes all right yeah i mean i think we've heard a lot of stuff a lot of accusations hurled at striker and i a lot of characterizations that we don't necessarily support of course in this format sometimes maybe you guys don't know you don't understand some of the more nuanced points of what we talk about um you know accusing us of being fans of the british empire i that to me is just ridiculous let's try to mike sometime yeah i mean just actually listen to our show you might be surprised uh at the kinds of things that we talk about i you know the idea that um perhaps some people are critical there might be some intellectuals like critical of the soviet union or something but generally speaking you know is it is it against the law to uh to have said that you know germany should have been crushed no but it is against the law to in any way attempt to rehabilitate germany in europe i mean that that's the facts and in america it's effectively it's not against the law like you won't go to jail but you might lose your career you might lose your social standing etc and that that is another form of social control and you're never going to lose any of that for supporting frankly any of the positions that you guys support uh similarly you know you could talk about this gender stuff i did it's absurd like there's no point responding to it like that is stuff that that is not stuff that has anything to do with any kind of worker struggle i mean even if you're talking about a worker or this is just like crap that is thrown in there to confuse people and alienate them it's it's not it's not relevant to anything like i said with with the racial stuff obviously white is a category because uh people are classed as such so you talk about racialization or non-racialization let's say i even buy into your idea that um that there's no genetic basis i mean i don't like arguing genetic stuff because it can get extremely you can get extremely detailed and a lot of times people don't know what the hell they're talking about so i don't pretend to what i know is i'm white and other people that look like me are white and we are denied political rights based on this uh classification others that don't have this classification are granted them so i have an interest in organizing with people of my same race to fight for that that's it i mean you can you can just continue to try and back up that disenfranchisement by telling fables of people that did this before and did bad things but that's that's really it's not convincing to somebody who today right now is denied uh the right to advocacy and advancement because of their race and the fact is like this kind of social construct right right well it classes a social construct right you're gonna get to go you're gonna get to go yes yes so this this is the point like dealing in all of a sudden something being a social construct only when it comes to race does this argument even come in and i'm supposed to like respect some science which i feel is deliberately constructed to disenfranchise me and i i don't i'm not i'm not going to accept that why why is it in my interests like i said you know you can talk about uh these things science and throw papers around but this is not this is not working class there's nothing in this that is fighting for workers or for their rights or anything like that this is this is just uh uh some kind of intellectual superstructure that is meant to confuse people and of course you know the idea that this is not this is not possible is is ridiculous so we are here saying white men and people know that they're white the government takes a census to ask you what your race is that you can say oh the government is exactly the one that's creating this but everyone is always believed in this so if they're if they're divvying out rights and privileges based on this then it's in my interest to understand that and to act upon it like i'm still white when i apply to college i'm still white when i apply to a job and i'm still going to be the last on the on the heap of the applications because of that so it doesn't matter that you you have some scientific argument is to you don't say that to black panthers don't tell that to them you won't because you've classed them as as oppressed which again there you go that's another exact part of the same intellectual superstructure i'm talking about so there's that now when it comes to i didn't hear anybody debating you know what i'm interested in which is like let's you know i talked about the programs that were actually enacted in national socialist germany between 1933 and 1938 which i don't think anybody on this call would disagree with any of that that is that rehabilitated that nation and you could say oh it was based on right Germany was a German country why shouldn't the government of germany protect and support the rights of germans i mean you're not going to get rid of all political borders this is an absurd idea that and it's only meant it's only brought up like china is china right people in china are chinese sure there's like eight percent minority populations of this or that but they're not letting white people to the top of their polit viewer they're not you know they're not doing that and they would they would not this would not be something that they would even consider so only in western white countries are these type of arguments brought forth to prevent the white population of these countries from political self-organization and self-actualization and this is the point you talk about immigrants well one of the biggest ways the capitalists oppressed workers is through the destruction of wages by the importation of immigrants who then become sort of a de facto slave class because they don't okay because they don't have the same kind of rights and so this is a this is a this is an attack on on workers immigration itself and you know if you if you like democracy if you have an idea that the people should get what they want out of the state then you have to understand white americans have for years wanted a number of things that they have never gotten and one of those is immigration control other things are things like supporting strong families and these are these are things that are mocked and ridiculed not just by the liberal establishment but by people like you all right this is a good point to close i'll give you guys sorry i i let my go over a little extra just because i i uh i i didn't give you a warning in terms of like what i'll do for you guys is if you want to just peek at me in the zoom window i'll put up a finger to let you know if you've got two minutes left one minute left and uh next up brenton the floor is all yours absolutely uh so to begin Germany was german that is begging the question the nation state that was germany was literally created by warfare as is every nation state that has ever existed these political divisions that seem to be really really important political cultural divisions these are only creations of the past few hundred years maybe a few thousand you said that race uh you know you're you look in the mirror you see yourself as white yeah so do i but guess what back during rome there wasn't white and black like there were people who were white and people who were black but there were only two races to the romans there were romans and barbarians and that's it because again what can happen is people can have social constructs and subjective things can seem very very real and very solid and you have to actually take the time to delve into the philosophy and see beyond what is obvious because again it's the whole thing like with play does cave with a person sits in the cave and just sees the um the shadows moving on the wall and then a guy escapes goes out and sees the real world comes back and tells everyone about the real world they will react exactly like you know i know what the real world is it's these shadows on the wall shut up you weirdo so that's the first part but you know what here's the thing i've been pretty aggressive during this debate uh and i've done it because for a number of reasons um particularly because there were a number of lies um but here's the deal i do want to uh identify with you a little bit because i i do believe you when you say you want to organize for your interests and the thing is you can do that again we had occupy wall street that was exactly what Caleb and i was doing and it didn't have a racial component to it the fact is is that when you bring in the racial component when you try to organize around that fiction what happens is you all first you alienate a huge number of people and then second what happens is is that because race is not a real thing it falls prey to this vicious circle where fewer and fewer people are actually considered part of whatever race that you're going to do and this happens everywhere around the country uh and around the world and it has happened every time people have tried to organize around these uh principles in human history the thing is is that if you want to organize what you need to do is you need to reach out to people on the basis of their humanity you need to come from a place of compassion and you need to not get sidetracked by all this other stuff like for instance you you said that you feel like you have less of a chance of getting into a university because there's some affirmative action the thing is that's not even statistically sound what's happening is say there's a hundred positions in a university that could go to anyone and before segregation those a lot of those hundred positions all went to white people i'm sorry not segregation um uh before affirmative action then they said okay we're having a problem because everybody is just giving these positions to white people let's make sure that 30 30 of these 70 they can go to people with minorities you are still competing against 70 white people those you haven't lost any of those uh any of those things what 10 percent are white gentiles by the way and ideally schools it doesn't matter 10 white gentile men hey hey hey let me get on my side well then we don't only have what like two three percent we do have to we do have to it's this closing statement yeah so i said at the beginning of this that there were going to be a lot of bad faith arguments and if they were going to be a lot of lies because again fascism is internally incoherent it is a feeling um and you know what it's fine i'm one of the more emotional people out there it's okay to have feelings but you can't let those feelings lead you to get into a position where you are ignoring material facts of reality and you also can't let that mislead you into a into a point where you're hating on other people in your society to the point where so you've got a guy on your show who's talking about unironic exterminationism this is evil in in the in the truest sense of the word is that one minute okay so this is evil in the truest sense of the world this is the barbarism that Daisaku Akeda was talking about now what i can say in from my experience both with occupy wall street and with my buddhist organization soka gakkai where white people are actually a minority in this organization uh because it is a japanese buddhist organization um the thing is we had 50 thousand youth uh linked up across the country of all different colors genders ethnicities whatever and we were all united together the these these enemies that you are looking at their shadows and you've got to see past that to the actual reality and when you do and i guarantee you when you come from a place of compassion and when you do actually do the scary thing and reach out to the weird people who talk funny you're going to find that you've got more in common than you probably thought and you're going to find that your life is going to improve because you are no longer coming from a place of fear time we next we'll switch over to eric so eric the floor is all yours so i i i you know i i don't even like care if it's a feeling because we are romantics and we are idealists that's why we hate marxism so we don't believe he's to find idealism philosophical ideal is i okay i let me get to my point the point is that you can talk i did in the in the marxist context for example you could say that racism is a form of idealism right that's how marxist would see racism it's not actually not what idealism is okay but i'm talking from a marxist perspective but here's the thing that's not from a marxist perspective well marxist believes that marxist believes that racism marxist believes that race race is an idea and so discriminating against people is a for a based on race is a form of idealism that's what marx contributed i'm sure possibly Caleb if he's going to be honest would agree with me that that racism itself is not a product of class of class development or the means of production it's an idea that you guys say is to divide the work in class but it's whatever that i don't agree so what i would say is this you guys say race gender all these things well class we know is a social construct but race and gender according to you is a social construct fine fine if you think that fine the thing is you guys on the Judeo left don't actually mind identitarian organizing based on gender or on even even people even a man who wants a fuck another man up the ass has a right to a collective political identity according to you that is somehow a class that has a right to a political collective identity to advocate because the cops were kicking their ass for doing that and you know what the cops you can find a picture of me fighting with the cops yeah we've had the cops come after us i had i was personally you know you know what's funny brenton you know what you i can tell that you're possibly a person who believes this stuff and that's you know i respect sincere people of any political strike thank you i do but here's the thing when i went out to protest i was surrounded by cops and left a scum and they attacked me together okay that was my experience and experience of a thousand five hundred people really because i have a friend who was attacked at that exact same event by identity europa and the copster decided they're lying well they're lying and they don't fight so anyway bullshit the idea that identity europa fights people is ridiculous you would know is a laughable thing we know trust me we would know but anyway the point is that if you guys even you know i'd love to see you or kaleb take your races only a social construct to a black identitarian group i'd love to see you do that you know what would happen to you and you know this full well is that you would be lynched by your comrades for it so why is it it's funny because i have to tell all right you only tell white workers and white people that are disenfranchised in this country that their identity is a social construct and thus illegitimate as a foundation for political organizing how is it any more illegitimate than organizing based on your class which is a social construct all of these we in our worldview we are pressed because of our race and this is actually brought about by many different policies we get into them but we don't have time the point of making is that like you know even if i don't i don't want to get into a debate about haple groups and all science and all that stuff race is to an extent uh it is a combination of of genetics of science in soul okay it's a both it's both things and the the thing i'm getting at here is that whatever whatever your your your assertion is that it's not real is irrelevant because you say gender isn't real and you would support feminism i assume right you support feminism yeah well i am i not muted i support feminism in the sense that it is a critique of patriarchy and i am an anarchist so i support the critique of any kind of illegitimate hierarchy right one minute left but you also believe that gender is a social construct so you do believe that political organizing based on social constructs are still important and the thing is that yeah there we go thank you thank you that's all i wanted that's all i wanted okay okay so if you want to have a real conversation about this sometime like we can have a real conversation but it has to be in good faith i'm totally willing to do that yeah the thing is that the bad faith is is is not really coming so much from you to an extent well somewhat but the bad faith is like you know before i have to go uh it's it's Caleb like his his like ridiculous like dinosaur soviet definition of fascism which is a load of horseshit where the soviets recall the social democratic party of weimar germany fascist and then he goes around calling uh uh uh pinochet a neoliberal calls him a fascist i mean this is pretty much a fascist we are anti-pinochet and we're running out of time yes those are those are libertarians like these rabid libertarians we don't do switch it over to Caleb for the final closing then we'll go into q and a so thanks so much Caleb the floor is all yours i must say you know i'm one of the few leftists that will do these kind of debates and i will say this has got to be the worst debate i have ever had um this is a complete clusterfuck and i almost feel like this was a complete waste of my time this is not an encouragement for me to ever have a debate like this again i probably will but tonight you know i don't feel like anything really productive was discussed um you know august bebelle he very famously said that anti-semitism is socialism for fools right some people what about anti-whiteism i'm sorry man i finished my white isn't hold on let him finish his statement you know that that no you won't people are not capable of understanding capitalism and economics and class struggle and they think purely in racial terms i'm in this group and we're being treated unfairly there's this other group and they got it better than my group i mean this is typical right and it's sad it's one of the curses of the working class as people are struggling to survive i've heard this in every from every community i've ever been part of and you know they think that their group suffers the most and the other group doesn't suffer as much and they wish the cops would go beat them up more and be nicer to them and they wish they got paid more in the other race that has it too good this is just this is just sad when people are fighting for crumbs this is what they're reduced to and i also think it's kind of sad that so much of this debate has basically resolved revolved around who's more persecuted right are the the government's harder on me no the government's harder on me i don't know if it's harder on me as if that's an argument for for us being correct right i mean and and i don't i do think the government is harder on genuine leftist and anti-imperialists around the world but but the fact that that's even the terms on which we're debating is kind of sad i mean i mean is it not um and i also want to add that you know earlier in the debate it was said quote white males are fighting for representation in the united states i mean i'm sorry but i mean i mean is it even worth talking to somebody who thinks that that's a a legitimate statement that white males are not represented in the u.s system i mean that's ridiculous but white people are suffering in the united states right now no question about it there's a lot of low income white people that are suffering there's a lot of white working class people a lot of young working class people who are suffering and to those folks they need to look into american history because every time things have gotten better for white workers it has been because they've been in alliance with black workers whether that was in the the 1930s when you know they were fighting for union white man's israel in the middle of middle america forcibly deport all the minorities set up some kind of police state there and make sure none of them are hiding and and start trying to glorify hitler let me add this you know i mean you know the term neo nazi right i mean i i'm a socialist communist whatever i'm not a neo communist i'm not a neo socialist i'm not a you know i mean why is it neo nazi right we didn't invent that term that's a term of abuse that's a term you guys invented horrifying hitler in the year 2020 is mental illness it's it's really mental illness i don't know okay mr stalinist but if you think yeah i mean kaleb's not a stalinist let's let kaleb finish and then i promise we're going to help i thought we could be objective i thought we could be objective about history right no no no now we're mentally ill we're trying to be objective here let's listen to the science mic the science of what i mean i mean you look at the the alt-right guys and they're silly costumes and all of that i mean you guys need some help i feel sorry for you and i really hope you've got to go into q&a can i can i jump in really quick i'm sorry brent just to just to keep it fair i got to say no we got to go into q&a okay thanks i was going to be nice to those two but okay okay well i um we're gonna kind of fly through these shan pickle thanks for your super chat didn't see anything written and uh but appreciate the support steven stein thanks for your super chat who said type 14 in the chat if you are a james's sexual okay thanks for that 14 lude duva uh thanks for your super chat who said the right stuff dot biz is the best site on the internet so i think you've got a fan for well let's see the uh nationalism vincent b thanks for your super chat who said sticker please just speak or i think they are maybe saying striker please just speak normally can we call striker sticker from now on i think we're gonna have to panna saves thanks for your super chat who said would like to understand how black block and anarchist anti-capitalism went from pro-nationalism to open borders in the last 10 years can i respond to that because like i'm the anarchist here and kayla like we both saw what happens with black first black block is a tactic it is not a group so it's just a tactic that certain anarchists use at certain times usually when they're going to do illegal stuff smash some windows or whatever antifa which is often confused with black block because antifa uses black block tactics has been around you know in the united states and active since the 80s at least and probably before that and longer in europe the only reason people think they're suddenly coming out of the woodwork and being anti-nationalist or doing all this is just because a lot of fascists got invited into the mainstream and then the uh you know kind of republican media machine through fox news kind of assumes that like antifa is the paramilitary group of the liberals liberals hate antifa nancy polosi despises them and has said what about chris womo what about chris womo just so we don't get too tangled up chris womo is a tv personality he's not a politician and he loves antifa what about don lemond he prays antifa yeah i would say some i'm talking liberals overall like the liberals that are actually in power and actually matter which which liberal in the last few years just because but just because we have a lot of audience questions yeah i'm sorry yeah keep going this decepticons forever thanks for your super chat he said be nice he's wearing a helmet gotcha robin so a lot of these are trolls you're a lot of trolls yeah robin i shouldn't have left at that okay nob thanks for your super chat said as a nat soch i got nothing against bernie bros i used to be one but the problem is that the establishment and both parties do not care about white workers and want to replace them with immigrants and bernie cares about white workers well let me address one uh yes that's absolutely true bernie sanders lost a lot of his white supporters working class of rural white supporters because he went off the rails on guns remember he got all a lot of his policies in 2020 from the democratic socialists of america which you know i hope you guys would agree is probably a liberal group they support guns with workers having a gun it was it was workers uh like with with if you want if you want if you want if you're a socialist if you're a marxist you should actually you should i'm not talking about that i'm talking about within the within within worker struggle in a capitalist society where there's not an actual armed revolution taking place like how do you have to go okay okay listen okay fine the the point i'm getting at is that the dsa pushed for bernie to take up anti he's therefore abolishing the second amendment it's on the dsa site uh they're for open borders not legalizing immigrants not bringing more immigrants totally open borders which is insane i mean it's insane that we've got a totally open border between like virginia and um west virginia but the thing is like whatever you actually the border between virginia and west virginia is a product of the civil war yeah it is but again did we actually cross that point we have yeah we well i don't know if west virginia attacked but the fact is is that we have open borders between our states and it works fine like there so citizenship has no value to you gotta go gotta wrap it up i mean i don't like nation states in general but what i will say is well that's what's called the hang on let's uh look up a book it's called the 11 nations of america okay gotcha eric if you have a quick rebuttal since the super chat was just quickly uh yes anyway uh the left is not interested in representing the working class maybe some like splinter workers world party group came here supports throwing ethnic minorities such as uh kazakhs in reeducation camps to get them to conform to the han majority how can he defend such a thing you know what i'm gonna let came with what take that you know no he said i saw that question before he said striker supports putting Uighurs and and casics in china in gulags which isn't happening it's not actually that's a lie and by the way i wrote an article that that about uh china and stuff and why the liberal powers want to which i would recommend calib would read if he just opens his mind a little bit i agree with calib on most foreign policy things calib is good on uh syria he's good on iran he's good on venezuela he's good on china so i agree with him to a point i don't i'm not gonna like totally advocate for the chinese system completely but i do agree they have a economic system that should be studied and is interesting point i'm saying though is that i don't support putting them in camps but what i do support is that if a Uighur member of isis goes out and he kills a bunch of little girls with a knife in beijing which has happened in other cities yes someone like that should be in prison and you know what everyone who helped them should be in prison i don't think that's controversial but you know what i'll let calib answer that since he knows a lot about that go ahead calib well actually i don't know a lot about it i think we don't have enough information and i think that what's interesting is eric you you seem to be a critic of u.s foreign policy but right now the hostility to china that's being pushed and we saw donald trump just cut off u.s support for the world health i don't support trump i don't pushing a conspiracy theory i know you don't support trump i'm talking about trump but not you um i'm the world health organization they just cut off their support uh based on this conspiracy theory that how somehow china is is involved in the corona virus and is trying to infect us all the opposition to china coming from the republican party right now is based on racism these people who speak a different language and look different than us they're not white people like you and the sentiments that your movement is based on are being used to push hostility to china you can say you disagree with it all day long but racism is bad for anyone who wants peace in the world jingo jingo i'll tell you what jingo jingo jingo isn't i'll i'll give you some i'll grant you something really quickly i'll grant you something jingo jingoism i'll hey i'm trying to agree with you i'm trying to agree with the idea that you push leaps towards a feeling hold on hold on americans can't tell the difference between iran and the saudis is because of whiteness and racism okay okay hold on hold on i'm going to agree with you i'm going to since the super chat was originally one last quick gotta give eric the last word on this because this is a waste of my time well they go away okay we've got to give eric the last pillow then we've got to give eric we're gonna give you the last we've got to give you the last okay i'm gonna give you the last word on this eric because the super chat was for you very quickly very quickly i agree that sometimes uh certain types of controlled uh xenophobic resentment can be utilized to start wars we saw this when the jews were promoting anti-islam sentiment to to a reaction to agree without doing anything about immigration there's there's some truth to that what i will say though is that on the other hand another policy the united states is used okay it wasn't the jews it was specifically really really quick okay three years old i mean why okay okay okay love my race is different than this right let me finish and so we can move on let me finish so we can move on the point i'm getting at is that the united states government uses a wide variety of tactics just right now they're uh trump and other people are publicly complaining steve bannon about one that the chinese racism against the weavers and two they're saying the chinese are racist because they started this thing where like apparently the chinese are moving black people out of their homes and so the united states government is calling them racist so you know the the it could go both ways calum it does that mean anti-racism is illegitimate because the united states government uses the the concept of anti-racism to fight all kinds of wars including the second world war even though the people that were volunteering to fight in the us army many of them were clansmen we can we can we move on white uh let's see we've got it if you guys uh if you can i know it's super hard some of these are really complex questions so we've got a lot of them to try to move through and so if we have like short and pithy responses as best as we can whenever you can and then white male thanks for your super jet who said i seriously doubt the ussr which promoted globalist revolution and the us nato which promoted open borders and ma free market no matter what were nationalist they're the ones who flaunted nukes yep i mean i don't have any disagree with there targeted toward the other ones yeah uh go ahead guys if you want to respond you can can you read that one more time because i want to make sure i understood you bet they said i seriously doubt the ussr which promoted globalist revolution and the us yeah that was what i wanted to say globalism is not the same thing as internationalism globalism is a liberal uh thing where they basically want to use money to control the world um where whereas internationalism is a revolution of the workers workers of the world unite you have nothing to lose but your chains and the fact is is that um and i i wanted to say this earlier because if we weren't have stuck here arguing about this race bullshit um you know we actually would pose a serious threat to the ruling elite because the fact of the matter is is that we all have more in common in class interests than we do in race interests and if we were all united black white jew whatever if you're a worker you're against the bosses guess what they lose instantly you know they're what i don't disagree i don't have to go to move the next one so stop making it about why should i hold on hold on i don't have to keep moving guys i'm sorry i will say eric you gotta keep moving okay all right it's yashuta finkelstein thanks for your super chat who said donating so enok can buy some ranch off amazon thank you just read the rest to be sure that this isn't a troll chat it is i'll tell you that right now i'm sorry i just let's see uh it doesn't it's not too personal though that's the most personal they said anti fascism in the end will lose like Ernst Thalman and the original antifa's loss but because uh because anti anti fascism offers nothing positive only offering negativity contra nationalism hoovered like anti fascism because the fact is he all in i'm sorry kaleb you go say that the liberal anti fascism that was promoted by the cia this kind of stupid you know diversity is good liberal stuff yeah that's weak and it's not going to wait i thought diversity was good though i mean it's good it's weak and it and it will lose right i think it means the liberal version of it is with scientific marxism with with actual class struggle and actual worker solidarity and the the attempts to equate what i believe in what people around the world that are fighting imperialism believe in uh with the kind of liberal order uh you know that's that's not accurate um and that that we need genuine anti fascism we need the anti fascism that won the battle of stalin grad we don't need the the anti fascism of cnn i i have no well you have the the anti fascism of marxism i'm so sorry to go to the next one erica otherwise we'll be here all night we're gonna be here it's already been two hours club thanks for your super chat who said nice buzz cut james appreciate that lu duva thanks for your super chat who said press one to kick this kaleb guy before he starts gotcha kaleb thanks for your super chat of rugal nigg doll thanks for your super chat who said kaleb supports an ethno state for palestinians though yeah and so do i that's a good policy to have i support all people in the world having their own state i that's not a crazy idea that's what a whole lot of us but this is kaleb someone gonna put words in my mouth i mean am i allowed to speak for myself all right i mean am i gonna get a sentence out before someone interrupts me um okay uh i would support equal rights for all the people living in that area uh that's not the same as an ethno state i think the problem is ethnic privileges and such i i believe equal rights for all the people living in that area so i can say something about the state so i'm sorry bren we got to keep moving i got a white male thanks for your super chat who said mass immigration decreases the value of labor yeah that's obvious that's not even up for debate i mean even if it does it depends because for instance if you've got minimum wage and you have people coming in like and they're not working under the table it can't decrease the value of labor at least not below that and really you're talking about unskilled labor but also mass immigration but mass immigration also grows the economy in fact it's libertarian argument but yeah they're they're not wrong it does it grows the economy and it's the only way you can grow a first world economy reliably since birth rates drop off so what you've got happening here is yes people are coming and there is an initial shock but the fact is we don't have a right to stop the free movement of peaceful people nor is it a good idea nor is that the compassionate thing to do what we need to do is organize with those people and make sure that we present a united front if you took every immigrant legal and illegal you got them into a union with the unions that we have we could demand wages that give everybody a fair shot this is the most wealthy nation on the earth most wealthy nation in the history of mankind and the very fact that we are divided is the reason why it lowers wages i will say something we gotta just very if it's like five seconds we can do it otherwise here's the thing man uh show me that then because all we get is the immigrants all we get is the lower wages and i don't see any of your socialist revolution happening because these immigrants don't give a fuck about your socialist revolution they've all given that the original super chat was for uh Caleb and uh and brendan if Caleb if you have a response we can give you a quick response otherwise an issue with mass migration right i mean the fact that so many people leave their homes the fact that i mean there's an issue there right the answer is not just escalating means of political repression this is a global economic problem that must be addressed i don't you know this notion that that you know that that we're going to solve it by just pretending it's not there and celebrating it is the american dream i don't agree with that there is an issue but the answer that i'm seeing which is go and kick their ass raid their homes escalate ice raids terror people kicking down doors in the middle of the night that's not an answer right and that's not going to help anybody but there's clearly an issue and it needs to be addressed you know we need to figure out what to do and i think we've got to keep moving with their belt and road initiative raising countries out of poverty building up domestic economies probably has has the solution there if we had something like the many immigrants is china letting people wouldn't be thinking they're homelands um blue duvah and that they don't think global how many immigrants are allowed to immigrate to cuba no matter even if that was the case hang on can we move on because i think james really wants to get this going blue duvah thanks for your super chat who said i for one support china's oppression of uh i know i'm going to pronounce this wrong wegas weavers weavers like ours the uh is the minority group that was mentioned earlier uh one of the terrible thing to say weavers he's it's a joke don't i know i know it's just yeah he's playing on we i am a pawn of your sick tasteless jokes people don't eat dornish thanks for your super chat who said us south would have been safer and therefore more prosperous without forced integration this applies to cities like detroit nations like south africa these guys got to talk before so let me answer this one by every metric including uh small small business ownership uh marriage rates blacks actually were more successful under the jim pro laws and this is objectively true there are many books about this like uh by tomasoul and so on black school that's actually hold on hold on black schools actually work competitive with certain white schools and on top of that blacks had a lower crime rate than italiens and irish and urban areas in the south so blacks were objectively better off now from the point of view of a liberal maximalist like yourself and you know liberal they weren't better off because there are fewer black millionaires that's true they weren't allowed to be near white people which is always a terrible thing i would like to about us all millionaires to consign somebody to not being allowed to be around white people it's the worst thing that could ever happen gosh next up thanks for your uh super chat arcade outpost who says identity is inevitable it's futile to misdirect whites from it while other groups are fully invested and encouraged in their own yeah identity is important but i white isn't an identity well let's just get beat up by i don't want to so one challenge is if the super chat is like challenging one side i want to give that side a chance to respond because otherwise if we have yeah all the super chats are gonna be on our side jumping on that's the thing all the super chats are gonna be on our side so we're never gonna get to talk tell your people to be on our side then um yeah that's a good point a lot of them are i think a disproportionate of them are because our views are more popular we might have this is a i didn't bring anybody i announced this to my fans so i'm sure you did yeah i decided to watch the fact i have a lot more than you well that speaks for itself we'll just we'll just reverse it i don't have a lot of fans for youtube because i just started okay okay everybody's got a lot of fans arcade outpost we uh we'll go to your question with brenton if you want to give a quick response and then we'll give a response from eric as he sounded like he wanted to say something sounds good so i'm sorry i got thrown by that whole thing the guy was talking about identity and it's how identity is important you said it's inevitable yeah identity of course is inevitable but the issue is is that white is not an identity there is nothing when you talk about like white like what do you even mean you mean like the freaking macaroni grill do you mean do you mean the sizzler do you mean no the fact is there are genuine identities that white people have um you know you've got scotch irish you've got um you've got german you've got um i'm uh i'm from the uh carpathian mountains you know and occasionally maybe i might like to get together and hang out with people from the similar part of the world just you know for the uh stuff of that but the the fact is is that there are three group dynamics and this is why diversity is both good and bad depending upon how you use it the first one is many in body many in mind this is a disorganized crowd this is what the neo liberals want us to be because when everyone is atomized and driven apart and has no uniting principles well guess what they're easy to push around then you have one in body one in mind and this is the worst excesses of both um like ethno nationalists and like the ussr it's every like or even the cartoon version of the ussr it is where you have forced conformity um where there is a where there are not multiple uh views it's just everybody's stuck into one thing and you know that leads to birth defects that leads to not being able to adapt to a changing world what you need is the principle of many in body one in mind and i believe that this is and if you want to see it in practice again gotta move the next we got high james you gotta let me respond i have i had some time here let me respond to this and he can he can responsibly do we'll share our time i'll just say something very quickly the thing is the thing is brenton you saying that white is not a legitimate identity uh it really doesn't mean anything it doesn't mean anything because you always say that that huge chunk of of this country no because they have their other identity is black which those are politically relevant identities and neither is white is black a relevant identity uh yes but it's because oh okay there you go there you go so there you go so this is the point you're just this is the point then because white isn't a thing you're just the biggest black is a way you say that wait the police treated the white people like crap because they were white then it would be yeah a relevant identity but they don't do that i i know i know what that was the fact all right now for a fucking but he's not in prison for being white of course he's not pointless because this is actually the crux of the issue calib doesn't want to talk about this because he doesn't like talking about this kind of stuff but when you sit there and you say it's not a relevant identity it's not a race that itself is a form of oppression of those people that are classed as that so like you can sit there and say yeah i'll believe in the relevant identity of this this this is everything but you how do you think white people are going to respond to that it doesn't even matter you can say it's imaginary if you want but how are white people going to respond i'll tell you how they're going to respond they listen to me not you we've got to move forward ireland i mean there's no yeah but so you know what wait hold on hold on okay we've got to do this we're going to give like a really short okay the short response from calib and i'll keep doing this is a negative it's it's you're not black or brown that's what it is i'm sorry there is no white nation there is no white culture there just isn't white people are the most this this right here is a form of oppression of white people this narrative in and of itself thanks for your super chat white male who says do mark zuckerberg and jack dorsey support white nationalism last time i checked they were doing everything possible to ban white nationalists from their sites while allowing anarchists oh yeah while allowing anarchists and tankies to post whatever they want please tell me tankies isn't a bad word it's not a bad word no it's it's it's tankies are supporters of like joseph stalin they're like larkin communists gotcha okay but not so bad word in thank you isn't right i mean tankies aren't killing anybody oh okay i mean ask connor betz okay i'm gonna say it but i don't know if use it i'll just take advantage of tioga thanks for your super chat who says fascists never pay or do they lol he's saying he's a fascist because he's paying you oh i see but she's not i don't think she is okay next up dev as thanks for your super chat i'm flat earth till i flatline globe heads get lost gotcha thanks dev for that i mean arthur why am i on here this is this is uh yes uh we'll have to get you on for a flat you know what i gotta say something about this real quick you know it's true there's a lot of people in the chat that are joking around and saying funny stuff that's how you relate to the working class yeah okay you being super serious and you suit and being all uptight about everything new whose kid gives a shit about you people like us they like us because we're funny and we're engaging and we're their buds and we can hang out guys plenty of people like that is how you relate to the working class it's how you can't do it oh you got me oh okay i mean it doesn't matter if i've got you it's objectively true really we got what this is like mike mike you know what this is like this is if you ever watch adventure time this is like i swear like this is like i could go out on the street and argue with some drug addicts this is why am i hang on kaleb kaleb you know it's all right we'll work through it but no this is like on adventure time when you're talking to kaleb about his suit it's like when we watch that show okay so there's a dog and he's got magical stretching powers on shows with magical dogs of course i do as you're calling us you're calling us children yeah i'm no when did i call you children okay now no here's the yeah so please talk to me finish this please i like let's let's let's let friend this is like this is like on adventure time because what you have is whenever anybody asks jake for advice jake gives them very specific advice that only applies to jake what you need to do is engage your empathy and be able to realize that not everybody is going to use the tactics that you're going to use or approach problems in the way that you approach them that again is the beauty of diversity gotcha thanks so much we gotta move uh arthur fuck's sake uh thanks for your super chat who said tioga is bay club thanks for your super chat said james coon's uh 2020 steven steen for vice president that's nice of you very funny an anon user thanks for your super chat who said marxism is russay it's hard for me russawian russawian delusion anyone calling themselves a marxist nowadays is a product of bourgeoisie narcissism most marxists aren't into russaw that's more of an anarchist thing to tell you the truth russaw is all about noble savages he looked backward he didn't believe in economic development so i don't buy that gotcha thanks so much bob ross for your super chat who said in a world that rewards grouping up and pursuing power how should people of european descent act if they want to exist going into the future are we evil for wanting our people to exist there you're not evil yeah you're you're not evil you it can lead to evil or you're just factually wrong right no here's the deal um okay so first off it's a bad idea to pursue power like just straight up it's something that no well the only people you're telling that to our white people right now i'm telling that to everyone okay fine but that's why you won't say to blacks i will say it to blacks it is a bad idea so black power you don't believe in black power i'm against women in boardrooms i'm against black people in boardrooms because i'm against boardrooms what i think i mean race what about black power you're against that temporary um oh temporary oh why should they give it up once they have it here's the thing you should always give up power once you have it because why don't you ask black people to do that no one's going to it never gets you what you want like seriously just just think about it for a second imagine that you're the dictator and people come up to you in the editor of the new york times that shut down like bloomberg in the editor and who are they who are they belong to right don't talk about juice that's just getting crazy are they happy people go one at a time i probably no they're not they're freaking miserable psychoanalyze them i can't you know i'll tell you let's hear let's hear one second i appreciate your gusto i hate just to hear kail yeah kaleb is right thanks for for backing me on that kaleb i couldn't agree more we have to move this fast and we have to try to next up white male thanks for your super chat who said the phalangist phalangong phalangong phalangong phalangist not phalangong yeah we're co-opted by franco after marxist captured and killed revera revera was opposed to their sort of reactionary capitalism that's exactly true i will tell you this i am no fan of franco i am a i am a nationalist who supported the spanish revolution on the side of the phalangist and franco took that revolution off the rails he it was basically like if trotsky took over instead of style it was basically franco was an opportunist and he was a conservative the phalangist were anti monarchism they were anti capitalists and they were for a kind of ethnic nationalism franco was none of those he was a clerical conservative and that's why after during the cold war he was part of sudo nato or whatever and also by the way franco and fidel castor were good friends and they were allies too so i don't the phalangist also hunted people like literally hunted humans for sport it was called reforma agregaria they got together got blessed by the fricking catholic church and ran down peasants murdered them and dumped them in the hole because they had to keep this fast okay yeah and the anarchists put dead bodies out in the public square that's why the peasants rose up and start killing them though yeah the peasants supported the anarchists no they did that's absolutely not true and they lamented the fact that they ran to franco they ran to the fascists because of the the reasons of the anarchists if we even worse than the Stalinists we spend four minutes on every question we will hear all right let's go let's go and an user thinks you're super chat is said appeal to motive is a fallacy can't remember when that was nobody else says arcade outpost thanks for your super chat brenton says quote who cares cares who it is be careful you might notice a pattern and patterns are racist humans have pattern seeking uh where we actually see patterns where there are no patterns this is behind like if you take just a pencil you draw any weird shape you can turn it into a face just with one dot so you're seeing a pattern that doesn't exist that pattern doesn't exist we'll do patterns do just not that one so you're an anti-pattern maximalist how what's I just said patterns exist just not that one so there you go that's the next up appreciate your super chat from let's see Manchester police says if this debate is about which ideology is more tolerated by the state it's no contest that communism is it's able to be merchandise and naziism isn't third position books are censored on amazon communist books aren't that's just the old alliance from world war two first off and second of all fascism is merchandise look at freaking star wars left communism is capitalism's last line of defense actually they were fighting world war two and may america unipower in the world and then look at this or how they did everything they could to avoid fighting hitler they only fought him when they basically had no choice uh they've been over backwards to appease him but all throughout the cold war every coup every intervention millions of vietnamese millions of koreans i'm sorry uh the notion that that they're more afraid of fascism than they are of communism is absurd i mean no that's because there were no fascism except for qaddafi you know after world war two they went and found all the fascists and hired them the gaylin organization you can go down the line so that's i know you can really consider qaddafi fascist he was just kind of nuts fascist his the national hero was a third position next up nick griffin might some people i know actually know qaddafi and were guests of his this is ridiculous now areas people you would guess of areas that got stuck because it was not your super chat appreciated they said race is so real that i could spit in a tube and 23 and me can correctly list all four of my grandparents birth cities go ahead i can respond to that yeah race isn't real because of that genetics is real when they're looking for those specific things and they're like oh i want to find this genetic marker from this area yeah they find it but to call that race being real is what's called begging the question where you assume the answer in the question itself race was created before anyone knew anything about genetics it is based upon what is convenient for a 17th and 18th century empires and nothing else i mean the freaking weirdo who first came up with like the whole idea of caucasian was probably holding my great great great great grandfather's skull because it was a freaking weirdo inbred um like aristocrat obsessed with skulls there's nothing there next up appreciate your super chat sky patrick s s apollo says race is fake because the arian race is the only race all other races all right yeah that's just that's hate speech don't okay