Welcome to George H. Smith's Excursions into Libertarian Thought, a production of Libertarianism.org and the Cato Institute, narrated by James Foster. Jeremy Bentham's Attack on Natural Rights In my last four essays, I discussed the ideas of Thomas Hodgkin. No discussion of Hodgkin would be complete without considering his great classic natural and artificial right of property contrasted, 1832. But in order to understand and appreciate this book, we need to know something about the doctrine that Hodgkin was criticizing, namely the utilitarianism of Jeremy Bentham, 1748 to 1832. I shall therefore devote this essay to Bentham and then resume my discussion of Hodgkin in the next essay. Natural rights theory was the revolutionary doctrine of the 17th and 18th centuries, being used to justify resistance to unjust laws and revolution against tyrannical governments. This was the main reason why Edmund Burke attacked natural rights, or abstract rights as he called them, so vehemently in his famous polemic against the French Revolution, reflections on the revolution in France, 1790. Burke later condemned the French Constitution of 1791, which exhibited a strong American influence as a digest of anarchy. Similarly, Jeremy Bentham in his criticism of the French Declaration of Rights, 1789, called natural rights anarchical fallacies, because like Burke, he believed that no government can possibly meet the standards demanded by the doctrine of natural rights. Earlier, a liberal critic of the American Revolution, the English clergyman Josiah Tucker had argued that the Lockean system of natural rights is a universal demolisher of all governments, but not the builder of any. The fear that defenders of natural rights would foment a revolution in Britain, just as they had in America and France, alarmed British rulers, causing them to institute repressive measures. It is therefore hardly surprising that natural rights theory went underground, so to speak, during the long war with France. Even after peace returned in 1815, a cloud of suspicion hung over this way of thinking. Natural rights were commonly associated with the French Jacobins, Robespierre, and others who had instigated the reign of terror. So, a defender of natural rights ran the risk of being condemned as a French sympathizer, a Jacobin, or worst of all, an anarchist. Thus did British liberalism don a new face after 1815 as an atmosphere of peace resuscitated the movement for political and economic reforms, and as many middle-class liberals embraced a non-revolutionary foundation for economic and civil liberties. The premier theory in this regard, which would become known as utilitarianism, was developed by Jeremy Bentham and popularized by his Scottish protege James Mill, the father of John Stuart Mill, and by many other disciples. Bentham did not originate the utilitarian principle of the greatest happiness for the greatest number. We find similar expressions in a number of 18th-century philosophers such as Hutchison, Helvetius, and Baccharia. For our purpose, the most significant feature of Bentham's utilitarianism is its unequivocal rejection of natural rights.  So-called moral and natural rights are mischievous fictions and anarchical fallacies that encourage civil unrest, disobedience and resistance to laws and revolution against established governments. Many political rights, those positive rights established and enforced by government, have any determinate and intelligible meaning. Rights, the fruits of the law and of the law alone, there are no rights without law, no rights contrary to the law, no rights anterior to the law. The significance of Bentham does not lie in his advocacy of social utility or the general welfare or the common good, for this idea, by whatever name it was called, was regarded by many earlier classical liberals as the purpose of legislation in contradistinction to its standard. The fundamental problem was this. Given that social utility should be the purpose of legislation, how can this rather vague goal be attained? How can the legislator possibly know which measures will promote the greatest happiness for the greatest number? To this question classical liberals in the Lockean tradition had answered in effect by respecting the natural rights of individuals. Thus if social utility is the general goal of legislation, natural rights are the standard or rule which must be followed if this goal is to be achieved. Bentham broke with this venerable tradition in which utility and rights were seen as different aspects of the same process by rejecting the entire scheme of natural rights and by proposing that social utility serve as both the goal and standard of political activity. According to Bentham, the happiness of individuals of whom a community is composed is the sole end which the legislator ought to have in view and the sole standard in conformity to which each individual ought as far as depends on the legislator to be made to fashion his behavior. Natural rights are not only a groundless fiction, one that is incompatible with an empiricist methodology, but they are a highly dangerous fiction to boot because they have traditionally been used to undermine the authority of governments. In short, natural rights are terrorist language. Thus did Bentham reject the roundabout method of natural rights according to which the legislator should respect rights as a means to the end of social utility. Rather, the legislator should calculate social utility directly by assessing the impact of a given law on the greatest happiness for the greatest number. As I said, this was a significant departure from earlier liberal thinking in which natural rights and social utility were seen as complementary. Bentham severed this friendly relationship by totally rejecting natural rights. If a particular law promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number, then it is legitimate and proper regardless of how it might be evaluated from a natural rights perspective. Bentham believed that the greatest happiness for the greatest number can be ascertained by some calculus or process of moral arithmetic or means of which we may arrive at uniform results. But how? Bentham's solution came in the form of his hedonic calculus, a discussion of which occupies a good deal of his most famous book and introduction to the principles of morals and legislation, 1789. How can the legislator calculate the greatest happiness for the greatest number measured in terms of maximal pleasure and minimal pain? Bentham's procedure, despite a veneer of exactitude, is incredibly vague on this point. After listing seven circumstances, intensity, duration, certainty, fecundity, etc., that are relevant to this calculation, Bentham says that an exact account of a proposed legislative act can be arrived at by first determining for a given individual the sum of all the values of all the pleasures on the one side and of all the pains on the other. And by then taking an account of the number of persons who interests appear to be concerned and repeating the same calculation with respect to each. Bentham repeatedly refers to the quantity and measurement of pleasures and pains, but nowhere does he address the serious problems of dealing with pleasure and pain quantitatively as if they can be added together in a single sum, nor does he explain how it is possible to quantify and compare the subjective feelings of different individuals. This latter problem is now called the problem of interpersonal utility comparisons. That Bentham sometimes had doubts about his own hedonic calculus is clear from one of his unpublished manuscripts where he had this to say about the possibility of adding up quantities of happiness among different individuals. Tis in vain to talk of adding quantities which after the addition will continue distinct as they were before, one man's happiness will never be another man's happiness. A gain to one man is no gain to another. You might as well pretend to add twenty apples to twenty pairs which after you had done that could not be forty of any one thing but twenty of each just as there was before. Bentham concedes that his hedonic calculus like the theory of natural rights is based on a fiction or unreal abstraction but he also claims that his fiction is successful because it can function as a practical guide for legislators. This addability of the happiness of different subjects, however when considered rigorously it may appear fictitious, is a postulatum without the allowance of which all political reasoning is at a stand. When Bentham applies his principle of utility to political measures he often appeals not to his fictional hedonic calculus but to the general principle that each individual is normally the best judge of his own interests and should therefore be left free to pursue his own happiness in his own way. The legal recognition of this principle as manifested in a respect for individual freedom is the best way to promote the greatest happiness for the greatest number. That each person is normally the best judge of his own interests seemed to Bentham so obvious as not to require much justification but there was a serious danger lurking in this premise as his natural rights critics were quick to point out. They agreed that a person is usually the best judge of his own interests but they maintained that even when this is not the case a person has a right to act according to his own judgment so long as he respects the equal rights of others. So the crucial point was this who is to decide whether a given person assesses his interests correctly or not the individual or the government. After all Bentham conceded that people can make mistakes about what will promote their happiness but who should determine when these mistakes are made and when they are not. Bentham's theory suggests such decisions should ultimately be made by a legislative authority not by individuals for it is the job of legislators to calculate the greatest happiness for the greatest number and they are empowered to enforce their decisions. This was what so infuriated Bentham's liberal critics such as Thomas Hodgkin and Herbert Spencer and this is the key to understanding the rift in 19th century British liberalism that was precipitated by the immense influence of Jeremy Bentham. The utilitarians according to their critics had undercut the moral foundation of a free society by their rejection of natural rights. True many utilitarians had strong pro-freedom beliefs. Bentham for example was a fairly consistent advocate of free market economics and he did not hesitate to take up unpopular causes in the area of civil liberties as we see in his opposition to capital punishment and in his call to abolish laws against homosexuality. Given these and other liberal causes the principle of utility could indeed function as a powerful weapon in defense of individual liberty provided of course that those in power agreed with Bentham's assessments of social utility but that was precisely the problem. Bentham's ideal legislator reminded his critics too much of Plato's philosopher king, that wise and benevolent social planner who has the best interests of his subjects at heart. Bentham prided himself on his hard-headed political realism but this lapse into idealism was severely ridiculed by the defenders of natural rights. Again and again Bentham's liberal critics most notably Thomas Hodgkin and Herbert Spencer attacked the utilitarians for their historical blindness and political naivete. How often in human history they asked have political rulers actually governed with the best interests of their subjects at heart? Never or almost never they answered and given human nature may we realistically expect that rulers will magically lose their self-seeking inclinations immediately upon gaining power forgoing their own interests for the sake of the common good. Or may we expect rulers to behave like other mortals and continue to pursue their own interests through the coercive instrumentality of government. Bentham was aware of this problem and he found an answer in his theory of democracy. If the franchise were extended if the people at large were able to elect their rulers then there would emerge an identity of interests between the rulers and the ruled for people would surely never vote against their own interests. Bentham's natural rights critics generally favored democratic reform but they were not nearly so sanguine about its prospects. Democracy is desirable but it is not a cure-all. Like many of their American counterparts they believed that a majority could tyrannize over a minority as surely as any tyrant. Indeed they regarded democratic despotism as more dangerous than monarchical despotism since a despot can be resisted more easily than a majority. Only a theory of natural rights which defines the proper limits of government can morally empower minorities to demand that their rights be respected whatever the form of a government may be. And so went the great debate between the two schools of classical liberalism. The Benthamite utilitarians versus the defenders of natural rights. This debate, one of the most fascinating in the history of political thought sets the stage for our discussion of Thomas Hodgkins the natural and artificial right of property contrasted 1832 a devastating frontal assault on Benthamite utilitarianism. Thank you for listening to Excursions. To learn more about libertarian philosophy and history visit www.libertarianism.org


of what the idea is like of the human body at all unfortunately we only had 28 responses which is about 2% of if we take from the numbers that we got in 2 o'clock it's about 2% 2% of people 28 as we said we're student journalists we're learning as we go so we will start with the presidential election of course as you can see as we spoke about earlier Thomas O'Dowd up at 85% with Brandt and Perry taking about 10% of the vote and then reopen nominations with one person that same one person from the Monday poll I wonder Louise I kind of said this earlier and where I should have necessarily agreed with me is the presidential election kind of an open and short case at this stage? Yes I'd say I think it probably is I think all the voting that has been done is finished now they've been campaigning all day and as I said earlier on was probably the busiest point on campus with all the rag happenings going on and I don't think there will be any more voting I don't think there will be a surge anyways I don't think there will be a major surge in that I do think that Brandon has done amazing with his campaigning up against somebody who had such a big reputation built for themselves and I was talking to him earlier and he said it has been tough but just kind of congratulating it has been tough we've seen them they're all wrecked You have to put more emphasis on the presidential race because they are over everything in the SU and that's why I was delighted with the way that the debate went last week especially because we were really dissecting both campaigns and I just found it so fascinating the different points that were made by both people especially you saw Todd talking about turret and I love when ABU corrected him in saying he was proud of the fact that probably a thousand people have voted you said that's only 30% there are things like that where it kind of to me for me I don't think it is that's what my concern is I would probably say that I think Brandon will get more votes than people thought he would this time last week I don't think he's going to beat Todd I don't see it I don't see it happening I think they both run very strong campaigns I think I would say like Mauritius and I were obviously talking a little while ago about the presidential campaigns Todd has built himself a very strong foundation to improve upon I don't see it going Brandon's way I don't think the gap is going to be as big as people thought it was going to be I also just think Todd had more time to build relations and more people know who he is and like speaking to people that aren't big nerds like us and saying like who are you going to vote for for president or who's running for president they know that Todd is running you mentioned Brandon they're like oh who is he because he hasn't had this time to build a platform so I think with the short amount of time he has had, he done amazing he definitely got his word out there so yeah that's off next up we have the VP for academic life it is uncontested however we do have 96% of the vote going towards Allen Croson so I think it might be safe to say that he will probably get it I mean he didn't necessarily have any hiccups or bumps he was very he was very outspoken at the walk out rallies specifically about the academic life side of the things so I mean like I don't see how he did very well the day of the walk out from a point of view of I'm here to fight for the academic life of students and if students don't have a safe and appropriate place to stay that affects everything across the board of course it was put to him about how is DCU going to how are DCUs supposed to help students with this issue and he said it doesn't start in DCU this is a national issue that has to be fought on a national stage which he then of course linked back into the USI campaign I don't see us being in a situation where one will be re-elected I mean yeah totally I mean it's 28 people to those 28 people out there thank you I can't even see the statistic because it's quite small but I think it's about 3.6% I'm so good at maths one person who said I'm going to promise that one person was just being awkward we move on to the battle for well-being which as you can see here is a little bit closer than the poll from Monday I think it always is with well-being it's a position that many people want to go for and it's always highly contested I think we had 3 or 4 last year yeah and all of which were very tight again I could not call this one I mean 57 for Katie and 42.9 for Sarah I mean that's only a very small proportion of people who are bothered to do the walk what's the name of the exit hall I should say walk out I think this is a lot closer one thing though is that there are no reopen nominations here in this one so that one person obviously didn't get very awkward decided I'm not going to be awkward anymore but it's almost neck and neck I think it's only one more person if we are correct 16 12 this is why you're in journalism but I think this race is an awful lot closer than it oh yeah it's going to be tight this is one that I think this is going to go on the time to the wire and again as you were saying earlier on there are two very similar campaigns so it's going to be very tight and it's a fairly important point to make diversity and inclusion I spoke to Hannah about it a little while ago Sam Mooney is the only very vocal candidate in this you can see there is one vote for Alexander Victor who I have not I'm yet to see I think they've dropped out have they not possibly I'm unsure still on the website so we'll see and then Rupinder Singh one vote as you can see there Sam Mooney but six people here 18% for a reopen nominations it's been interesting to actually see the volume of races that do have a strong obviously we've talked about science and health but I decided that that there is a strong instance in some races where reopen nominations could get a few nods I really want to know is that people being cynical cynical in what sense they're being cynical of the SCU in a sense do they just think first of all those three people none of them are good enough for the job maybe we were thinking that last year possibly it wasn't well done I'm just saying I'm just trying to think of people what people's thoughts might be they might think possibly Christina Mani didn't do well I'm just saying what they possibly could be thinking I'm not saying that myself but maybe they are being a bit cynical you never know maybe one short who's chosen they want to reopen and see I'd actually say differently I would say that I mean Rupinder Singh I haven't heard a peep from I don't know who he is exactly I think it's probably just sorry I just completely cut off I think what it is is that if you're not going to vote for Sam you're definitely not going to vote for Rupinder which means you'd probably not a fan still you're probably both three open nominations Hannah made a very good point it was actually Sam's point that Hannah spoke to Sam earlier Hannah asked her what's the difference between you and the other candidates and she said I'm here I'm willing to work and I'm ready to go I just want people to give me the chance to do it she could have finished after I'm here she could have but she didn't and to be very fair to her she is aware of the fact that there is another candidate in the race who has not been very vocal and she has still been out every day still flyers, still posters still hosting events I'm very willing to talk to everybody and give them the time of day and tell them how to vote which has been an issue that we spoke about throughout the day so it's important to have somebody there to explain that so then on to VP for community and citizenship we can see Emma Monaghan there is up to 64% of the vote I think this is another one that I couldn't call I'm surprised actually that it's so high for Emma I thought it would have been closer again Emma had the time in a different position last year to build that platform so people know of her and know what she is capable of and she performed really well in that position last year so perhaps that's why the vote is weighed that way again but of course anything could have happened in that space of time when I interviewed Emma what she said she said that of course she kind of as a close officer they were kind of a good relation to Wendy's and Murphy to learn kind of about the role from him and then it was kind of inspired to then go for this so she kind of realized she could understand exactly what is required of all of this that's actually we've seen a lot of that throughout the entire race people using the same well I was class rep I've done this on the committees in societies and they use their experience and rightly so to show they're the right choice Alidia had a bit of a tough one there because Emma exactly had that strong emissivity precisely well Alidia did a pretty good job I mean her manifesto was laid out very well similar to Emma but her manifesto was laid out very well and she had a very clear kind of message which was that she wanted to include people in clubs in society events she wanted to make it easier for people to get involved in campus life and that's exactly what community and citizenship is all about that's what we've seen across the board from all of them people who it's almost the underdogs in the sense similar to Brandon Brandon had a hailed crime well he did very well and in the last week he's just been standing out on the street standing out on the motorway just handing out the factual stuff it's in the u he's been handing it out he's been telling people from the challenge and Alidia hasn't either clubs officer Kevach Deer is another person who's been quite nonexistent I'd say in the last week which is fair to say seems to be doing quite well according to our 28 people on our opinion poll so we'll see how close those 28 people were to the answers I would say it's probably a strong chances could be a reopen nomination situation I think judging by the polls judging by the engagement that we've had especially since the hostings those of them who didn't show up were very not there pretty much we're very not there like, yeah, absence I've just been given the word even the people who didn't give pictures for posters and things like that you know there's a question there I think also for like a role like clubs and socks you want somebody that's present you know these are people that are going to be getting you involved in activities throughout the year and if they can't be present for a week when they're being voted in then it would explain the reopening of nominations votes we're getting down to the wire now and we do need to start getting ourselves head up to actually for the release of the results but I want to just kind of move down to the referendum it was looking like at about 8 o'clock this morning that perhaps we weren't going to have quorum for they weren't going to reach the quota it's looking like they were there about two thirds of the way there at about two o'clock confidence seemed to be growing that we were going to get there as you've probably heard in the background of our coverage they're out there pushing, the yes campaign are out there pushing and it looks like from our opinion poll that they if they can get the amount of people to vote that it could be a yes vote no, the yes, they reached the quota then, yeah, that would show the two labels today even on this morning it was about 44% of the quota was already filled yeah, well they put, well I have to say they did get another nearly 25% between 8am and 2 but if they get another 25% it's only 94% after two o'clock we needed over 500 more votes so it's a question of whether that quota has been matched and we didn't hit those numbers either in any of the stand-alone full-time and part-time in between 8 and 2 we'll see what happens hopefully the t-shirts and the lollipops have done the vote enough we'll be back in a few minutes live from the EU with the results of the DCU-SU 2023 elections hello and welcome to the what was it you called it earlier D-Day no, the CNN this is our CNN news balcony we're feeling very Caitlyn Collins here this evening in the EU we're at the CNN news balcony anyway in the EU building we are how many minutes out I wonder, let me have a look three minutes out from the announcement of the results of the election we have a lot of candidates who have just shown up on the steps of the EU we have Adam Daley, Shane Murphy, we have Andy Down there there's a bit of a buzz in the last couple of minutes now they've all started to flood in it was like nobody wanted to curse it it's been quite empty now for the last kind of 45 minutes and suddenly now the room is just really starting to fill up hopefully there will be a bit more of a buzz this is going to be exciting I assume we'll have a returning officer appear at some point to have a chat with us I am the returning officer Marish's returning officer joke has been made about seven times today and it's still not as funny as it was the first time you did it it was funny once, it's not funny anymore it really has been a great week everybody's kind of gotten a drink into them now at this stage as is always the way with the student elections not us, not on the job Marish, this time last year they were announcing elections in New Bar it feels a little bit more official this year oh yeah totally, I mean like this is how it was before Covid alcoholism last year because of the residue of Covid but yeah I mean this is quite it's quite nice actually to have a whole setup for the union down there we will be bringing you all of the live coverage I'm just listening in really to hear who wins hear the shouts, hear the roars I mean are you excited? I'm excited, this is really the buzz is kind of starting to kick in now to see what happens who's going to win and as well like the figures that we've been talking about this all afternoon what is it going to come down to is it going to come down to that one or two votes you can already see some of the candidates are showing up we've got both of the candidates in the humanities and social sciences races here Brandon Perry is here, seeing Thomas O'Dowd kind of walking around there's a bit of a buzz going on at the SU offices that are over beyond from where we are here in the U but hopefully now in the next couple of minutes we might have somebody appear from the SU and we might have a returning officer that's not Marish it's been a long day folks I've done that every day, every time every single time I mean this is kind of like the ultimate finale of the last three days and I mean that's kind of weak really of our experience with it do you feel sad it's coming to an end? I think I feel sad tomorrow I think once I've had a sleep back I do that again now I'm ready for a bit of a rest but you never know if this referendum doesn't go through we might be here again in about three weeks time totally we'll be here we probably will be here in three weeks time anyway I mean you can have a rest but I'm up early, I'm travelling all the way to Belfast tomorrow what happens when you're in you're in final year journalism and this is what we're all here for the experience at the end of the day it's a great opportunity for us to get a bit of experience and it does include long days like today and even longer days getting up to your final year project tomorrow open at 6am leaving the house at 8pm getting there for 10pm it's the way it's done folks getting home for 10pm tonight is that? there seems to be a bit of movement here Nathan has just arrived there's a couple of other former members there's Thomas O'Dowd coming down we've got some official people from the SU now kind of starting to make an appearance Kaleesh the current well-being officer is here we've got a lot of people from the US I hear just spotting actually Thomas O'Dowd and Brandon are sharing quite a beautiful moment there Thomas is pouring the ends of a bottle of champagne into his mouth to celebrate the end to celebrate the end of the campaigns that was actually quite a nice moment to see I hope we got that on camera that was brilliant but yeah there's a very good sense of sort of we did it we accomplished it and you wouldn't get that anywhere else without any kind of cattiness either and we were discussing this everybody really likes one another they've all been really nice there's been none of this kind of backstabbing reporting of issues going on between people it's all been very cordial it's been very supportive obviously there's underlying competitiveness but we're we're really getting down to the wire and I'm getting really excited I mean I can see Glenn and Orla down there just oh wait no they're not doing anything they're just drinking um but yeah we're just sort of waiting around now until we see someone of importance we have Alan Crossland who's now just came to the steps of the U we have our reporter talking to our reporter Theo talking to to Brandon the rest of the college view team who are down here Louise, Rory, Liam and Rachel are down below we're keeping people updated on Instagram as well as on the website with the live blog as well we've been running for socks officers just arrived we now have both of the Soiides officers and the little bit of buzz is starting I'd say now people will kind of start to drip down from the different levels of the U people will start coming up from New Bar to have a look and I'd say the rooms will kind of start to empty out and we really will have a good bit of atmosphere for the results yeah I mean totally we had just looking down at the college view team there people from so many different sections of the college view got involved in this and I mean it was kind of nice to see our arts editor, Liam our sports editor Rory, our social media manager Rachel really got involved and that's kind of the point that we were making earlier on it's like this is a time to make your mistakes but also learn and I mean this has been great it's been great crack and it's not just me and Maurice here standing in front of the camera Matthew is here, Hannah is here everybody is getting involved with the team the camera's probably too high up I don't think Hannah will even make it on but at the end of the day yes it's been a great opportunity for us to kind of get to flex our interview skills and flex our on screen skills as well but it's been a great opportunity for everybody so to anybody out there in the college view who's written an article over the time of our coverage who has been involved in Vox Pops to Sarah Otouma who I dragged out with the kit the other day to ensure that we had enough content thank you and as well thank you to all the students who I've harassed in the U and been like what do you think about voting do you know how to vote to everybody who has gotten involved thank you and hopefully this won't be the last of major coverage for an event for the college view and hopefully next year I'll have to do it I'm alone some last of my major coverage whoever will be editor and deputy editor at the time wink wink Amy go and go for it no chance in hell so we'll see what's going to happen we might cut for a little bit watch the build up and then we will be back to you in just a few moments with the results hopefully no one just arrives now in the next 10 seconds and is like here's the results because that will happen knowing me but yeah we'll be back to you in just a few moments yes if you are still with us which I hope you are tuned here to the college views live coverage of the DCU SU student elections we're having a couple they seem to be having a couple of technical difficulties trying to get themselves together down below so we're still holding out the room has filled up a bit a couple of representatives from the USI here I'd say ahead of the results of the elections we're not entirely sure in what order things will be announced as a possibility it might go part time and then the USI and then the full time we'll see what happens as you can see current president and candidate for the president of the USI Thomas O'Dowd past chair of DJ Sock down below they're trying to get some the technology working they've been trying to look for a couple of different plugins so hopefully they can find their way around that you can see Barry is there with them Barry is one of an instrumental part of running the SU and has been a massive assistance he kind of looks over all of the students who are members of the SU and is down there giving the lads a hand he announced the results of the election last year so there's a chance we might see a redo of that again or we might see the returning officer Podge make an appearance Marish what do you think? It'll be one or the other thanks for the help with that one Marish really appreciated there's a bit of a buzz going I wonder could we get a camera pan to our team down below you can see Louise is there and Rory Rachel is getting away there as is her job and of course Liam Coates who is the editor of our arts section it might be a bit of an opportunity now to let you know that if you are watching this and you do want to get involved with the college view you can of course still do that we are here right up until the end of the semester and of course further beyond that into next year student journalism isn't just for journalism students it's for everybody comes as you can see today multi-media we have everything going for us cameras microphones all sorts of wires technology, social media everything for everybody so please do come and get involved we're seeing a couple of people from Sam Mooney's team moving in and as well a lot of students have come to just watch the election results kind of starting to appear in small groups on the steps it's more on the far side I don't know if we can see at the minute you'll see Shane's party the society's officers race is there Sarah for well-being is also within that group you can see Oshin McGovern there all their campaign teams kind of making one large clump as we said earlier those candidates in particular have kind of aligned themselves together they've all been given a glass of champagne very kindly by DCUSU as Marsh said to celebrate it Thomas O'Dowd is testing sound there so we might be here in just a minute we can see some of the current members of the union down in the front row there ready possibly for the result of the USI referendum most importantly this evening which I think is what people will be sticking around to see come back to us in just a moment as we think sound is fingers crossed they're getting there and College View will be back with coverage in just a minute so by nothing short of Miracle we have sound by the looks of a Thomas O'Dowd's plug in an iPad down below hopefully there'll be a bit of music going maybe raise a bit of atmosphere as per usual at a DCU event there's a couple of staples Sider with a dash and Nubar Gougeon seem to be on the run Carating Society who've probably been the hero of the day with many different events ongoing have now provided music while they're experiencing technical delays I don't know whether that's to do with the technical system in here sound system or is it to do with voting I know I was just about to say that considering they couldn't find a microphone that could have been the technical delays but then now they have a microphone quite obviously and they still are saying they have technical delays so I mean returning officers people from the SU who work there aren't here they're elsewhere so it'll be interesting to see if there is a larger issue or not as I was just saying before Todd started speaking there drinks kind of started flowing maybe people are trying to settle down the nerves a little bit before the big announcement drinks are certainly flowing and there's someone's bag who's going to get a a buzz ball that's completely covered but anyway look yeah the DCU staples what's it called? Sider with a dash Apple Tree Jack Slats as it used to be called or IP mon Jack Slats with a dash and then Nubar Gougeon and then also another DCU staple everything starting at least 30 minutes a day absolutely it kind of just reminds you a little bit that we are really dealing with the student election doesn't it oh yeah totally I mean they had this set up about like 45 minutes ago and then they realised oh the microphone doesn't work so they've been at this quite some time but hopefully not too much longer because I am getting tired we're getting there hopefully now in the next 5 or 10 minutes we'll have some results for you stick with us here at College View election proceedings ongoing and hopefully we'll have some results in just a little in just a few minutes okay so it's being reported currently here in the EU that there is an issue with the count system with loop we're not entirely sure what that means we are being told that the results will go live a quarter to nine we may not get the results of all of the races but we are going straight away yeah it's kind of understood from who we've been talking to and all that type of stuff that there's one case in particular which we won't hear the election we mightn't hear we don't know we will or won't but we definitely have question marks around some of the elections today we're probably a lot of people kind of upset about that too the results have been counted in a majority of the race that's the exact number except we cannot release it for the minute but hopefully soon enough we might have election results yeah apparently this is all kind of starting around quarter to it is now quarter to so it looks like there's some little bit more movement going on here so with any look we'll have it all sorted and yeah I mean that was a really long time I'm so tired we'll be back in a few minutes so we have returning officers we have members of staff from the SU we also have some of the members of staff from Nubar because you couldn't have an election results without them we're about to get underway finally here with the DCU-SU lead DCU-SU election results it all comes down to this as you can see Thomas O'Dowd has just arrived down the bottom to the podium Podge who is the returning officer as well as Barry who is one of the management members of the SU and I think we are about to begin that was Thomas O'Dowd the current president of the DCSU handing over the mic to Podge for the answer for this year's elections this year's clubs officer met a total valid vote of 1,162 votes to call them the 5,081 votes Kavash Deir received 988 votes real good nominations with the 172 votes Kavash Deir is now your new club's officer Kavash Deir has just been dean-delected as the club's officer for the next academic year Michael Finn as you can see here on your screen at the minute has just been dean-delected by Podge for the Irish position on the DCSU that's Mark Don who has just been elected into the Institute of Education Faculty Rep Adam Daly the current science and health representative has just been dean-delected once again that's Shane Murphy a current member of the SLC and not being dean-delected for the society's representation position of the DCSU Erica McGroty second year journalism student being dean-delected for the humanities and social sciences position on the SU receiving well over the number of votes that they needed to pass the referendum where is the reactions massive yes it's a huge reaction especially from this current sitting and I mean soon to be not sitting members of the student union from the USLA here to celebrate that as well that too and a sigh really from a lot of them too academic there's Owen Croson being held by his girlfriend I'm a monitoring down below as he is re-elected and quite emotional very emotional a few tears coming from the eyes I mean this man has worked so hard so the closest race to the night yet and Emma Monaghan is dean-delected for the role of VP community and citizenship I mean we knew this would be tight but I think that was like 30 votes between them less than that even celebrations down below relations to Sam Rooney on that but a lot of votes for a candidate who made no appearances a booming victory for Sam Sam Rooney there and yeah you're dead right well I mean in comparison science and health officer Adam Daley as she is elected to the position of VP for wellbeing I mean quite a tight race once again we always knew it would be and here's the press and he reigned supreme for a second year in a row Thomas O'Dowd poking his competitor Brandon Perry in a great show a sportsmanship like again less votes less votes from wellbeing compared to wellbeing but Thomas O'Dowd is now being re-elected as DCU-SU president so they don't have to remove his photo from the wall here's the first word to the re-elected president not bad when we're getting thanked first by the new president doesn't work what's this all about well it's been a long day well it's been a very long day and there you have it the results of the DCU the results of the DCU of the DCU SU elections it's been quite a day and I have to say for Thomas O'Dowd to stand up there and thank everybody, especially us so cheers for that Todd but to Brandon Perry especially again just another true form of sportsmanship from the man the first thing you did was share a hug with Brandon as soon as the election was called I mean there is a fairly nice fairly kind welcoming vibe in this room right now I mean we have Katie Warren and Sarah Fitzpatrick just sharing a chat and congratulating each other and I mean everyone has such a a well rounded campaign and really hit the nail on the head and everything that they wanted to tackle so it will be interesting to follow especially for yourself Amy to follow this team for the next year I mean two people as we talked about earlier two new, two old and then three new people so it will be interesting to see how this team works together, the dynamic has that changed would it be better, would it be for worse but I mean just a very very exciting campaign some tight, very tight ones there so 30 votes in some of them 30 votes in some of them and even I think in well being in the end there was only less than 100 votes between them I mean we knew it was going to be tight we knew it would be dense at the wire but this is, this is kind of more than what we asked for really Hopefully we'll get to have a chat with a couple of the newly elected members of the SU of course what's most important is the fact that they've been elected we can actually see their in case we didn't get it on camera but Adam Daly tearing up reopened nominations poster after he was successfully re-elected into his position there's a lot of buzz going on here just really a great end to a long two weeks of campaigning Oh a very long week actually only five days at Amy I know I felt like two weeks but yes definitely a definitely very long, very good end to a long five days I only wonder I'm actually dazed out at the minute it just really is a great buzz I'm wondering can we get a couple of candidates and we're going to get onto the team down below if we can to get people as soon as we can just to see what they have a quick chat with us and the USI we're saying it lads there was obviously a very judging by our polls, our own polls ourselves and speaking with people around the campus there was a very good feeling around the yes best campaign I mean I don't think there was a very small majority minority of people even who were going for the no campaign we did speak to Nico earlier from the no campaign he told us just before we went on air that there were only 20 people part of that campaign at the time still though I didn't really catch the no vote because of the roars the booming roars from the SCU candidates and the number they were well over what they needed let's talk about the number of people who voted for well-being over three thousand three thousand people I mean we knew that was a very popular run we knew that that was going to be a very large one we were watching it all day but we hadn't actually seen the last time we had saw the numbers for that poll we were not even two thirds the way there no I know it's absolutely insane they were just below two thousand last time we saw it they were just overtaken by the presidency whereas the presidency where I think just under five hundred sorry five hundred thousand five hundred less than well-being I mean crazy crazy pushing the last couple of hours made the difference totally definitely I mean you could see them all running around at the time we were talking about earlier there was a bulls around trying to figure it out trying to get people to talk and get people to vote but yeah I mean overall I think this is quite a good victory for a lot of people quite a well-deserved victory for a lot of people too but on the people who didn't un-sex un-successfully run I don't I feel terrible for them because all of their campaigns were absolutely wonderful I mean everyone was really going for something so good so I think we might have an interview soon here we're keeping an eye out and there's just such a great pause we didn't talk about the business race we've no results for the business race the business race was the question over they're currently hand counting votes I know and it's we'll take some time we probably won't even find out until later on this evening so keep an eye out on the the College of Youth the College of Youth Socials we'll post them out we are being told behind the camera here that tomorrow at lunchtime tomorrow at lunchtime I mean that's a long wait for those guys we won't be waiting that long I'm not here I'm gone you could clearly see I do I am my heart goes out to Ocean McOvern my heart goes out to Rose as well and Shania who were over here and you could see quite anxiously waiting for a result we're waiting Rachel our social media manager is here come on Rachel how'd you come you are down in the middle of it what was the atmosphere like I'm very vibrant we actually ended up right behind most of the candidates you can kind of feel the tension as things were starting to get down to the minute a lot of shaking a lot of screaming a lot of shouting but I think look everyone did a fantastic campaign everyone's after working their backsides off for the last couple of weeks and yeah just fingers crossed they will put their manifestos into work now in September 2023 Oh and crossing is on his way up to us now and I have to say probably even I was getting a little bit choked up and here he comes now our re-elected VP for academic life I've never seen a man so emotional to have his name called out how are you doing congratulations this is the second year in a row I've cried at the election results how relieved are you right now I'm so relieved but you know what it's just it was to build up a tension over time and wait because it was a long 45 minutes was a long time to wait boy did they build up that tension fair play and they know how to put on a show whether it was willful or not now we could see you and it was really lovely to see all down the front there USI election USI referendum passed you were outside our window with that megaphone ensuring that everybody knew where to vote and how to vote are you delighted absolutely look it's it's I think the union is stronger for it you know it's it's something that we really really benefit from I think what we can learn from the turnout is that we need to educate more students some push in the last four or five hours though oh come here I was pushing the USI over my own campaign you know but it's us look I think we need to like obviously we we've heard the message loud and clear we need to communicate USI and their message to students I'm just delighted the message got true and that we got it over the line thank you so much on going celebrate and enjoy congratulations remained as the VP for USI clearly thanks very much congratulations you can tell you can tell that that that means an awful lot to him oh yeah definitely I mean he said the second year in a row where he's crying and also the second year in a row where he's grand successfully so here's another man who can only be we've been described as the man in the orange t-shirt for the last couple of weeks yeah Nathan Murphy a I mean you must be over the moon delighted absolutely delighted huge turnout a referendum usually it's hard to get students engaged you only care about elections between well-being over presidents which is crazy to think about three more years in USI DCU still benefit from our USI so brilliant to see now obviously you did not rerun this year for your own position how does it feel to watch the next generation being elected and moving on it's good it is to see there's kind of a new people coming in obviously you have Todd now and here are going to continue the great things that they've done this here and obviously inspire the other three officers and work very closely with them and I feel like they're just it's going to be a great team next year brilliant with you not running is there a chance we might actually see you in the next election there is a strong possibility of that there is a strong possibility sure only time can tell well of course you let the college know you got the college view know first I can confirm I'm running for USI congratulations well we'll see now we'll have a DCU representative at the USI elections Nathan congratulations go and celebrate we're hoping Kaleesh is here our current VP for well-being the buzz is just electric yeah I mean you can hear them all celebrating down below like win or lose they're still hugging they're high-fiving it's so lovely and it's nice because these people spend so long together the last couple of days so I mean it's only only just the Kaleesh come on in you must be delighted to wear a collar that's not orange from tomorrow honest to God I really am thank God it's over now absolutely delighted with the results thank God thank you so much all the students who voted everyone's probably absolutely success that was campaigning for the last 10 days but we're absolutely delighted with the results and thank you to everyone I know it was a long wait and we could see you guys all down the front kind of getting really impatient it must just be such a relief for you and you were really I spotted you in Laundice earlier on and there was kids following you around that box of lollipops and you were just trying to get everybody to vote the amount of people you got in those last couple of hours was highly impressive yeah I think everybody you know like we want to say a part of the uni students in Ireland I think everyone showed up today in the polls to do that there's a massive amount of effort put in from all the campaigning teams from our own yes US to US like campaign we're doing multiple lecture addresses on the ever you know going around to QR codes getting people to vote harassing people to death they were sick to death of us we were sick to death of our own voices strap stills were the lozens of a show to strap still the pharmacy is going to be making a lot of money over the next few days honestly yeah just glad to have my voice back that's all and Collette we asked Nathan the same question is there a chance we might see you in the US in the next couple months say tuned oh now it's really starting to go in Nathan pulled the same trick Collette thank you so much go ahead and celebrate with the rest of your friends and congratulations we are trying to grab Thomas O'Dowd who seems to have disappeared possibly gone up to his office and take a last few minutes I wonder I see Usheen McAvrin down below if there be a possibility of chatting to him possibly if one of our producers can get him and see how he's feeling yeah I mean that will be tough it's going to be a long way for me to figure that one out I mean if it is if it is that they're going to be counting them hand by hand I spoke to Katie Warren earlier and she talked about how she really just wanted a full night of sleep but here's a man here's a man who won't be getting a night of sleep tonight Usheen how are you feeling oh great I'm happy with the USI going through and I'm happy because some of my friends have been elected so I had a great event today so I really don't mind that much everything has gone so well for me today with regard to everything else to everybody who was watching us since 4 o'clock Usheen is the mastermind behind the madness that was the DCU Carating Race obviously we're not getting a result for the business election this evening another sleepless night for you I think I'll sleep well I'm very tired you'll eat it after all of the stress it must be disheartening though after all this time campaigning and things like that you don't get to share the same sort of excitement can you tell me how you might be feeling over the next day well like all my friends their elections have gone the right way so it'd be great well I am still celebrating with them of course because I'm delighted for them to celebrate myself as well or not I don't know if I won that so it would be nice knowing but I'm not I could be in the worst state now I'd hope you're either going to walk or take the bus home you're not going to have somebody push you in the shopping trolley no depends how the night goes if you're successful tomorrow will you do another trolley run up the campus in Glass 7 in your underwear I'll say to you Phil about that thanks very much Usheen best of luck tomorrow I'm sure the college will be back covering it this has just been a day we're going to try and grab some more candidates if we can I know Sorka McGrawarty who's elected for HSS is down the bottom there I have our team run records trying to find candidates the vibe is great interested to see what will happen now tomorrow with business Aletheia who has been elected who was not elected for diversity and inclusion is on our way up to us very happy to test community and citizenship it's been a long day and all of the faces are starting to blur you can see Brandon Perry is still here chatting away delighted with the USI results obviously he was he was I saw him jumping up and down as soon as that was announced we spoke about it earlier on going up against someone who had the experience who knows the job it was always going to be tough still however 435 votes from I mean it's not he did lose still a lot of people believed him on the campus it was fantastic Aletheia you're very welcome along commiserations thank you so much I'm very proud of the work that I put in and my campaign team so I really from the bottom of my heart couldn't be more grateful to all of the people who supported me and the fact that it was so close it was on with the two of us it was unbelievably close I'm very happy with everything and the outcome and absolutely congratulations to Emma really really proud that I stood my ground against such a strong opponent sorry congratulations once again Emma really great work to her now you ran such a fantastic campaign and I would be betting that this probably won't be the last that we'd see of you with the possibility maybe you'd go on to the USI in the future or be back next year possibly for the DCUSU absolutely being that I had never done anything like this before I'd never gone for a class rep even so this is my first experience in something so intense especially with the chance to have so much responsibility and impact on students lives I really enjoyed the process of campaigning and definitely I would love to try again next year it's such a tight race as well it was obviously very tough to choose between the both of you because the both of you are so great so I mean does that kind of give you a little bit of hope as if you were to go on to next year you could maybe get across that line absolutely it's like such a confidence boost to know that people believe in what I'm saying believe in my story like I struggled quite a lot believing in myself from a young age so the fact that people heard what I was saying understood what I was saying and supported it was so amazing and I couldn't be more grateful for that so yeah thank you so much and congratulations on everything that you did an unbelievably close race there 30 votes we were saying almost 30 votes humanities and social sciences sorca majority is the new representation of the humanities and social sciences we don't even know if she's in frame you went and got the ashes this morning for a good look you made all the difference here hiring a feeling because you were up you were very emotional oh my god I'm a ball of nerves still it hasn't quite hit me yet I'm not going to lie to you I'm both really excited for myself I'm really sad for Josh he was an amazing opponent and I wish it could have been both of us we were saying this earlier this was the nicest race to commentate on ever we might just move slightly closer to the camera the two of you like each other so much and when that came up to our table we were like we should go talk to the opponent as well to get a rounded viewpoint I got told that was a bad politician so many times clearly not that bad like we couldn't believe it mic drop for that one sorca thank you so much for your time and congratulations we have winners lining up here two people who spent most of the day pushing carts around with Sarah who's just been elected to well-being and Shane who's been elected to societies congratulations you got your cart in top now so that's not fair Shane you must be delighted because you had quite the crew in the centre of the room there and there was quite a big reaction we're all EPLers we do be at nothing anyway so I always say we bring them all down you spent most of your time sitting in the U anyway so you probably felt like home second, mostly trolleys and carts and spreadsheets and the U after that then Sarah you were the winner of one of the closest races under 100 votes in between the two of you I could just see the relief seep into your body I was so anxious waiting for it I'm so happy that all the work paid off Shane was on my campaign team I'm really the best campaign team and the work was so so hard we were also relieved an amazing campaign a very straight message we were talking about it earlier on it was a very clear way of how you and Casey were trying to talk to the students it was activism and then there was dancing so it's clear that you're very passionate about this role I'm so excited for you to see that you were able to get across the line today so congratulations I think bought myself a K it was the most voted for it was the most far over presidency as well bought myself a K put in so much work it was really close as a psychologist I obviously feel passionate about it hence why I studied it for four years and I want to go into it as a job but I think bought was putting so much work and it's paid off I think the two of you deserve a trip to New Bar as soon as it's feasibly possible congratulations guys who says we haven't gone already guys congratulations thank you so much for stopping by the college view it's starting to wind down here we can see the last few candidates kind of wind down I'd love to talk to Thomas O'Dowd before we finish up here if it were possible but really has been a great a great day oh yeah totally I mean what a day we didn't even know if they get enough votes the entire day and then we found out that they got enough votes I mean what a tight race I think the USI race came to about 1800 which is just under what the quota is exactly yeah I mean it was just such a to be kind of tracking it the entire day and then seeing that there was that little differences between each of the nominations obviously in those really tight elections it was just really mad to see because I mean here's us two thinking of different like scenarios the entire day and then going wow we were mind blown so yeah I mean really really exciting day and I mean so happy I'm happy for everyone else just seeing everyone with their smiles on them it's just it's a nice thing and you could tell like what's been nice about this because we've gotten to know one of the candidates really well and you're coming along every morning going Harry a feeling did you sleep last night and then they're asking us to go to bed planning and covering and things like that and you could see today they were really tired and this has just been such a nice lift I'd say I don't think they'll be in the bar for too long tonight though no I wouldn't expect so I mean during the 24 hour broadcast there was one drink and then gone home because it was that long and I mean this is five days of just campaigning constant constant campaigning constant talking to people I mean like they are going to be tired I mean Owen was walking around like a zombie just before the election the results were announced he was sitting down he was just kind of asleep basically in his slumped sort of in a way where the rest of his body was holding up the rest of his body and the rest of that body was kind of there but yeah what an amazing way to end it I'd say we're probably going to wrap up in a few minutes if we can't get a hold of Thomas out no sign of him he's disappeared down into the bar somewhere I'm sure he'll come on and have a chat with you the first promise I said to him if you win will you come and have a chat with us he went yeah yeah yeah absolutely and he has disappeared I can't imagine the amount of things that are going through his mind right now like to get a second go at this job I mean I'm sure this job is so much fun I could never do it so I'm saying it's fun well he's probably saying it's very stressful but you can clearly see the passion that man has and the sportsmanship as we saw hugging Brandon as soon as the election results were announced thanking all the people who made the coverage and just the campaign possible just wow really really wow I think from our point of view we'd like to say a massive thank you to Owen Campbell from the loans office in the Henry Gratton who set all of this up and made it all possible you can't see them on camera right now but there are wires taped to the ground there are microphones there are cameras everywhere we could not do this here in DCU without the team we have behind us thank you to our loans for letting us take all the equipment thank you to all of the college team even the people who didn't come down because without the support the rally the passion that people have for journalism on this campus we wouldn't be motivated to do so either so thank you to everyone who helped out over the last couple of days thank you to all the candidates winners or losers who came to speak with us throughout the day and throughout the five days actually because it's not easy and we ask hard questions every now and again we do we do we can have our crack like we are having now but sometimes it is about making sure that the tough questions are asked everyone seems to be so pleased with accepting those questions and it was very clear we put them through their paces sometimes and it became very clear very quickly that we were dealing with a very professional group of people who really understood what they were trying to go for what they were trying to do on campuses across DCU just one exciting way to finish wow so I'm sure the team will be back on Instagram lives and all sorts tomorrow for the business race but for myself and Warsh we did it we're done thanks to all the college view team thanks to all the candidates thanks to everybody we can go home now you can keep an eye on the college view online at www.thecollegeview.com you can also email us at deputy editor deputy editor at www.thecollegeview.com follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter and we will be back for the next DCU election this time next year you won't be here but I will so thanks very much for watching


Going on everyone, Sam here with late in sports cards, ripping 22, Panini impeccable football, hobby three box full case break number nine, random team style. Here's a look again at your random results. As always, you can find these on the website, under the results tab, as well as the link that is in chat. I appreciate that law. Thank you guys. Let's do it. Good luck. Thank you, I appreciate that shorts. Appreciate that man. Yeah, I gotta be on your toes for sure. I had some caffeine like about half hour ago, so we're ready to go. So locked in, it's unreal. I'm doing mid at best. Wow. Wow, that's messed up. That's really messed up, Kyle. Got him. Jeez. It's quite the group. Thank you, regard degenerates, fair enough, man. That's what we are too. We're going to the show in about a week here, so we're right up there with you guys. Miles Garrett to 75. I'm gonna let up smack. Subhara, thanks, Vaughn. Camakers, nice one there to 25. For the Rams. Got Luis Sine, that is gonna be numbered 31 out of 35 for the Vikings. Who's got this team? It's gonna be Bernie. One of one, Kyle Hamilton, Laundry Tag Shield. Boom, let's go, baby. There it is. Dude, that's so nasty. Congrats on that. Little bit of damage down on the bottom, Bernie. We'll send an empty box and wrapper with you really quick. Again, that is one of one. It is a printing plate, so that's kind of what happens, but we'll send an empty box and wrapper on that one. Just to be safe. Yeah, no, you're a good wahoo. Ooh, nice one here, he's got this team. Bernie again. 46 out of 50, Barry Sanders. Boom, it's a 50, let's go on the Vaunted Greats. Dude, that's so sick. Congrats on that, Barry. There he is, man. This is regular hobby. Regular hobby. We got London on the track. Drake London, eight out of 99, there we go, man. Congrats, it's got the Falcons on this one. Greg, there we go, Greg. I know, those acetates are so nasty. Take a Magnemary. What's that face for? Yeah, it's a Magnemary. Then we've got going to the Titans, Susanna Haskins, 16 out of 75, Jersey and helmet. I appreciate that, lady. And it's a lot of fun, a lot of fun when we do this for sure. Peckable WBB, we did, I think we had, we, well, at least we had like 15 cases of it. We did group breaks, random hit style, and there was some absolute fire in there. Absolute fire in that one. Yeah, I got memes and catchphrases, that's right, man. No. Sean's favorite part of the job, right there. Oh, did you mag the Hamilton as well? I'm not gonna tell you that too, so. My bad, my bad, my bad. That's juju to 25. I'll just don't encourage it. Yeah, Elijah Moore, nice one there to 75 for the Jets. If you guys are really into hockey, I could try to work some magic and see if we can get more hockey in here, man. We have a lot of people ask for hockey. I gotta be honest with you. We do group breaks up every now and then too. There's AJ Dillon, one of five for the Packers. See, Kyle says more hockey, Vaughn I'm assuming says more hockey. Yeah, I mean, I bought multiple spots in the last hockey break, so did Sean. Yeah, so did I. Thanks, Sam. Artel Devakite, 75 to 75 for the Falcons. R and Tonio, I'm assuming, right, Ton? Yeah, you just get added to Q, basically. You just get added into Q. There's Mike Alstad, two of 10 going to the Buccaneers. Dude, that's sick. Grats on that Tampa. Daniel Peet. We've got AJ Dillon, impeccable stars, numbered 43 of 75 for the Packers. Three in the first six and six in the second, honestly. I had two at the Oilers in one and something else in the other. There's Steve Young, wow, five of 10 going to the Niners. That's nasty, dude. Grats on that Jenna, and nice one here to end it. Going to the Jets, 54 out of 75. Garrett Wilson, grats on that NYJ. Bernie, there he is. Massive Niners fan. Perti, what do you say? Perti or Lance from a Niners fan? I got a redemption on the back here, everybody. It's 250. Yeah, and pick your teams we do, yeah. Jalen Waddle, the 75. God, Shaq Barrett, 27 out of 75. Two-color Patch Auto, nice one there for the Bucs. Got a Collar Gordon, three of 10. Going to the Bears, nice one there. Bernie on the combo spot, congrats buddy. I know why I wasn't for it, yeah. Bear, there's Kavon Tibido, 33 out of 49. That's going to the Giants. Nice hit there for the G-Men. Larry Deet, congrats Larry. Second again here, guys. Got a Traylon Burks, that is 30 out of 99. Three-colored RPA, going to the Titans. Steven W, congrats on that Steven. Nice one here, we got going to Miles. How about a Drew Brees, four of 10. Boom, on-card auto for the Saints.  Oh, God, what a name that is. You kid, yeah, I was gonna take my microphone. Then we've got Aiden Hutchinson, Elegance, rookie helmet and Patch Autos. Going to the Lions, nice one there. That'd be kind of wild, actually, shorts. All right, bar card, everybody. Ooh, Terry Bradshaw, two of 20, one Trayon, so fine silver. Going to the Steelers, there you go, Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh. Eric P, congrats Eric. Don't do it for the break, guys, do a quick recap here. Got Aiden Hutchinson, Traylon Birx, Kavon Tividow, Kyler Gordon to 10. Shaquille Barrett, we've got Garrett Wilson, Steve Young, AJ Dillon, Mike Alstott, Arnold Lankita, Drake London, Son Haskins, Lewis Siena, then we've got Magged Cards and Bar Card. It's gonna be a Drew Brees, four of 10 for the Saints. One-of-one printing plate, Kyle Hamilton. Again, the auto's a little smudged on that one, too. So yeah, we're sending you that empty box and wrapper, Barry. Got Vaulted Greats, 46 out of 50 on card, Barry Sanders, and bar card is Terry Bradshaw. Going to the Steelers. That'll do it for the break. Thank you guys again for the fill. Next up, we got another full case to sign the...


Let's get over to our man. Mr. Tim. What does we do every Tuesday and Thursday and don't forget folks? You can reach Tim every trading day at or d-oracle or CLE Dot-com. That's old hyphen oracle dot-com Tim or what's going on brother? All right Well, let's start looking at the bigger picture Okay, and we'll kind of go backwards here, but okay the first Chart number one we went over this I think last Thursday, but yeah, it's kind of a repeat. So we'll go quick But you know, this is chart goes back to 2006 and shows the times when the RSI Just the RSI 14 period reached 80 every time it's done that usually you got a trending market Trending market can last months and in most cases You know the mark the halfway point of the move up, but the blue Circle areas on the daily SPY chart. Yes the middle chart there Okay, you can see a lot of times it comes in the halfway point and we had that 80 reach I think some I think it was January 18th have to go back and look but not too long ago So we may be halfway done for this move on a beard Not every day or even every week's gonna be an up week But does suggest that if you do have pullbacks are usually gonna be minor pullbacks This is you're not probably gonna have a 10% pullback when this this time happens. Okay, so I flipped it Still flip to chart 2. Yeah, we have it third window up I think we went over to a class Thursday 2 and the third window up is the 63 day of the trend and Every time it gets above 1.1 on a 63 day period So it's basically three months of trend readings. Yes, average comes out 1.1 or higher When you got that a lot of times you get a trending market, which is all the blue areas and the chart this chart goes back Can't see here looks like about 2017 or something, but every time it's got above 1.1 you can have pullbacks again, but a lot of times it comes in trending markets and So, yeah, we're like 1.1 to right now So I kind of reinforce the idea from the previous chart when the 14-day trend or a 14-day RSI got above 80 So yeah, probably evidence that we probably got a trending market here and we'll well We've been in a trending market for four months, right? Yeah, yeah, basically in a trending market. So we we may trend, you know, maybe all the way into August Right. We're at that.  Yeah, sure I think this year is going to be pretty good. Just stay right there for a second Tim. We get a quick break This is Tim or Tom O'Brien. We do appreciate your growl and a problem with us out here folks Dow. Dow Industries right now. Oh, that just took a dump. It's down 116 S&Ps are off 39 and as next down 190 stay right there.  So Dow. Dow's off 109. Asics down 188. S&Ps are off 38 He's talking about a little volatility folks right before we take Tim and I took that break You had the S&Ps get down 18 points and literally heart beat Not like volatility, Tim Yeah, that's true. So We go chart two a little quick again Okay, I think I want to point out that the six a day train when he gets down around one or lower What time do you get you can get big corrections? I don't want to point that out last year We had a pullback from I think it was August to October approximately that time frame We pulled back 10% if you look what the 63 day trend was it was right around that one area I see. So yeah, so we don't have that now. We're up, you know 1.12. So yeah today You know right now today folks who are running 1.40. So It's gonna get interesting Of the trend the trends 1.41 right now. Yeah live Yeah, you need it that way. Yes. That's a good sign. Yeah, so Chart number three. Okay All right, this this is on the volume chart. I got two two areas Circle there and those are selling climaxes when volume jumps Approximately a hundred percent compared to the previous days a lot times as a exhaustion move to the downside. So it's a big Jump in volume, but if you see minor moves up in volume, that's usually not a big deal But whenever I get try to get to the exit door at the same time normally that kind of holds the market if it's going down or we're going up and A lot of times the way out they call them selling climaxes because both volumes there circle in blue Yes, the volume jumped about a hundred percent So they mark bottoms market rally that but a lot of times you come back and test those selling climaxes So we have we have one last Tuesday when we got one in January 31st, you know the January 31st The next trading day almost did touch that low Not sure that low is going to be tested But if you look at last Tuesday's low, there was nothing around it it did gap down and turn around gap back up So I'd minimum I would expect last Tuesday's low, which is around 490 on the SPY to be touched And what I like to see there's actually quite a few different things I like to see I like to see the trend going up which it is right now. Yes, and I like to see that the two-day trend Reach a right around 1.5. Okay, and the five-day trend reach around 1.4 When I made this chart actually that the five-day trend the second window up from the bottom and The two-day trend is the third window up from the bottom So any I like to see quite a bit of panic on the test of that last Tuesday's low Yes, so did the five-day and 10 or the five-day and two-day trend Get to those red lines and you get a 10% lighter volume. You're probably gonna have a low Okay, what I'm kind of looking for. I don't know if that's gonna set up that way or not But you know, you know, it's interesting Tim is that what's interesting out here today Is that Microsoft who's been one of the leaders? Okay in a monster way? I mean Microsoft's gone from like say what? $300 to you know $400 and six four 20 and six months now Microsoft is testing the High volume low that we're talking about the first one on the S&P today. So that's kind of interesting Do you know what I mean? You got a leader it's down off the ties For 420 it's trading at 401 and hit 398 today. So that's always intriguing to me You know when you get the lead it's like, okay, it's you know, are we gonna match down to that level? So pretty cool, right? I know I was looking at the QQ Q the QQ Q is weaker than the SPY Yes, so I know we're testing last Tuesdays. I don't have the chart up right in front of me But I know the QQ Q is back to Tuesdays low already. Yes, so You know be interesting to see what happens here, but What to wait and see you know the marketing push down, right? There's another thing I'm kind of incorporating here, too. Okay a lot of times go to go to chart four. Yes you know the last high was There's a big divergence. They have the top windows of VIX. Yeah, next window down is the SPY VIX if you notice last Today's Tuesday. We Friday last Thursday We tested the previous highs we had the week before and It was actually closed at a higher high than the previous highs Of that week before if you notice the VIX made a much higher Low or the SPX you know, yes, there's a big divergent ratio Yes, the SPX VIX ratio, right? It's why I'm thinking if we go down to last Tuesdays low Well, the VIX Make a lower high Okay, so The reason why there's less there's less panic on the second low And that'd be a bullish divergence if there's more panic on the second low Another VIX makes a higher high. Yeah, we'll just say we'll talk about the VIX don't want to confuse too much That makes a higher high that would open the door that we actually go lower down to the January 31st I wish is that for okay, you know 480 yes or 82 So I'm seeing because I'm pretty sure a leaf test last Tuesdays Low and the VIX makes a higher low Or a higher high rather Then that would open the door that we may go back down to another You know nice. No, I get it. I get it. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know There's a lot of variables going on here and then no there is hey listen There is but you walking us right through them and we appreciate it man Yeah, to me. I like to see panic especially when I get you know emails in the mail Because people are really good picking up bottom especially when they're panicking if they got enough Nerve to either enough fear to your email me, right? That's usually a real good flag for me to say yeah, we're awful close to some sort of a low It's not a minor low a major low. Oh, yeah, and so there's no doubt happened this time around. This is to me What we're screwing around with here right now. It's kind of a minor low I mean the worst case scenario of my view is 480, which is you know decent, but it's not like 380 no, that's hey listen man. That's nothing for the kind of Numbers that we've put up. Yeah, right. Yeah, so but yeah, that's that's my assessment. What's gonna go on here? But you know last Tuesdays, you know 480 or 490 is a target possibly 480 Which one may come in? I don't know But you know the markets down today volume Just eyeballing it's probably gonna be higher than last Friday or the previous To be at today's Tuesday Friday be last Wednesday because we're testing last Wednesday's low right now, right? And that was nice 86 probably down to the next floor low, which would be next to or last Tuesday And so we'll see how that you know the last Tuesday's volume was pretty big so I'm thinking My opinion that we may hold you know depends what happens tomorrow, I guess. Yes And we get lots of numbers coming out tomorrow I mean there's a couple of these big tech stocks that have been on the run that including Nvidia and Nvidia is gonna charge that market up that come out with the numbers after the close tomorrow And you talk about high volatility and Nvidia today It has it all has a high out here of 719 the low of 677 you're dealing with 693 so there's no doubt. Yeah, we got some action here things be but what those numbers are yeah, yeah No, there's no doubt. Well, listen man. It's always a pleasure. You have a great one safe one We look forward to speaking on Thursday, Tim Thank you stay right there folks come right back We have it out on 100 and as they got 169 S&Ps off 35 will come right back folks