Hello. We are so glad to be here in SoCAP and excited to be with this fabulous panel. I am Ana Laura Fernandez. I work in Fondo de Fondos and I am in charge and leading the impact investing strategy of Fondo de Fondos. And we are collaborating also with Sun and Capital in this effort. I would like to present first, Tania Dieb. She is the global treasurer of Grupo Vimbo. As you know, Grupo Vimbo is the world's biggest bakery. And I will ask Tania to please tell us about her story, how she got started in this impact investing world. Thank you. Thank you, Ana Laura. Okay, so a story. I guess I will try to make it short and because it has been many, many years since this project began. And also for me, it's important not to be boring, so I will try to put a little bit of sentiment and emotions into the story, okay?  So besides, I know that of all the things that I will say here, tomorrow you will remember only less than 10%. So I will try to make it short and interesting, okay? So as Ana Laura mentioned, I work in Grupo Vimbo, okay? I have been working there for 19 years now. It has been quite a journey. And me as being part of the finance department and the treasury and being responsible for a huge amount of money, I mean, that's the long story short, me and the team, by the way, two key players in my team and sitting there, so if you have any questions, it's not me, they should be sitting here. And so it's a lot of responsibility, but it's a lot of lack of commitment into an holistic way of living nowadays was also a lack of responsibility, right? So me and my team started the journey of looking and studying and searching. He used to be part of my team, so he's responsible too. We started to look and search for innovative mechanisms to do better in investing the portfolios within the company, okay? So I think although it's very difficult for other type of investors, like family offices, which they, and I will tell her story later, but investing and being responsible for the money of a corporation, it's not easy and a regulation and I mean the corporate governance within an enterprise is difficult to handle. So we searched a lot because it was the correct thing to do, right? Specifically, Grupo Vimoja has a lot of strategies, if I may say a big commitment regarding responsibility speaking very broadly, right? Environment, social, et cetera. And we being part of the finance department, we were like a part from the whole strategy of the company and it's not correct and I am using the word correct a lot. I am sorry about that, but I will continue to use it. It was not correct and we needed to do our homework as well because if you analyze the whole value chain of a company like Grupo Vimoja, starting from the people that is in charge of buying the things that are needed to making bread, right? The supplies exactly and doing a lot of initiatives regarding, I mean, buying to producers that are ESG, et cetera, and then having a lot of initiatives regarding water usage and not waste and renewable energy, et cetera. And if you go the whole way through the value chain and you end with a product delivered to the customer and now we are working on the packaging initiatives, et cetera, et cetera, where does the finance department and the portfolio within the companies stand, right? So we searched and we got to know the concept. I remember that it was eight years ago because I just gave birth to my little girl. She is eight now. And she was three months old, so somebody invited me to soak up. And of course my answer, my immediate answer was, of course not. I am not going.  But that person convinced me and I came here. And it was a very important and special time in my life. Not only because of the birth of my child, but also because I got to live this experience. And I am confident on saying that I changed my life in many ways. So we searched and it has been eight years now. And I am sitting here and can I say that I am proud of myself? Yes, you do. And we're proud you came to soak up as well. But I still need to. I mean, we are almost there. We found great persons who have found them, you and Sonnen. And we have been working in this great project. And I think that's the story. But the message of this story is that institutional investors are still apart from this landscape. And it shouldn't, right? And I think that what has been achieved by us lately is that we have been able, at least to share the message to other corporations. That is not only philanthropy, it's not only, I mean, there's the cycle between innovation enterprises. We institutional investors should become part of this whole cycle, right? And I think that's my story, Ana Laura. Thank you. Thank you so much, Tania. So I will present now Julian Farah. He comes from an outsourced investment officer for pension funds. That's called Spruce View Capital. And I will ask you to please tell us a little bit more about your insights on how pension funds should be involved in the impact investment world. Sure. So I think to your point, I think there's a lot of ways in which the pension funds are thinking about investing. I think they are revolved around a single concept which is very important, which is called fiduciary responsibility. I think in many ways that drives the investment decision of all of the institutional investors, because you have always, you always have to take care of your people and invest in prudent way. And that's what fiduciary responsibility is about. Now, although the definition has not changed, I think the concept of fid has become broader for some institutions. I think before to fulfill fiduciary responsibility, you only had to invest, you only had to maximize returns for a given level of risk. For example, invest prudently. Now I think more and more institutions around the world are starting to recognize that investments not only produce risk and returns, but they also produce impacts. And I think there's a responsibility in the management teams and asset managers to capture those positive impacts. So to not only maximize return given a level of risk, but also maximize impact, not sacrificing return. So that profile has changed slowly, especially in the region. And that's, we've been talking about that like for the last years. And we've been trying to convince more people to think that way. And one example that we use a lot is, as well, if a person is beginning to work at a certain company, let's say Grupo Imbo, we would like them, we would like him to retire in 30, 40 years with the most amount of money. Of course, we would like to do that for him. But also we would like him to retire in a much better world. So to the extent that we can put the money of his retirement to work advancing those objectives, I think we should do that. So no amount of money is enough or would compensate to live in an overheated planet or in a broken society. So I think that's a message. And I think it's difficult to argue against this. It's difficult that one person can tell you we shouldn't incorporate impact or we shouldn't think about the impact because it is part of the fiduciary responsibility that they have to have managing the money on behalf of other persons. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Fernanda Luxick, she's a Harvard grad and she represents a family office in Chile. And we want to have also the point of view of a family office and how will you promote impact investing? I think for me, it's going to be very different from your journey, but I'm going to explain a little bit of how I got into impact investing. So I'm part of this Chilean conglomerate in Chile that has activities in mining, financial services, and food and beverage amongst others. And I think for me, when I grew up basically in this privileged family, I was always reminded by my parents that I should, in some way or shape or form, give back and that what I was living right now, it wasn't the reality of a lot of people, especially in Latin America. So we were always exposed to different realities, to different way of life. So we grew up knowing that what we had was a good opportunity and a responsibility in the future. So basically when I went to Boston College, I took a class called social entrepreneurship. I didn't take it because I had a particular passion for social enterprise. I didn't even know what it meant. I just took it quite frankly because I thought I was going to get an ECA in the class. And the project did not require a lot of work, or that's what I thought. It ended up being quite the opposite. It was the first time I stayed until 6 in the morning finishing a project. But it also was a class that taught me about impact and business. And so this was the first time I actually got the idea that you could do business with impact. So after that, I worked in a nonprofit that basically dealt with political and economic issues in Latin America. And this exposed me again to the region and made me fall in love, or back in love with the region and understand that there is a real need. And after that, my past three years, I've been in Harvard Business School. And basically, I graduated, thank God, in May.  So with a professor there, we did a project about impact investing in the region. I'm not going to go into too many details about it, because the panel is about the opportunities and challenges. So I don't want to give it away. But basically, what we found was there are big opportunities. And so right now, what I'm doing, for my sake, is we're developing this impact investing fund with a business partner that she's in the ground in the region. So we're developing, trying to understand what we can do to attack. And basically, I want to take a little bit of your time to just mention what is happening these past days in Chile. I think it's a shame what's happening. I think no one ever saw this coming in Chile. But I think we should all take this as a wake-up call, that social unrest and inequality is not sustainable. And the call, basically, the wake-up call for us is that we should be doing something else. And I think in this sense, it not only sticks for an opportunity, but impact investing as a need in the region. There's actually a need for impact investing. And I think there's a need to change the way we've been doing business. So I'm excited about the region. And then your question about my definition, right? You wanted us to know, because we had a chat before and we decided that there are different concepts about impact. So you wanted us to share your definition of impact. So I think for definition of impact, and I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think all of this panel will define impact differently. And I don't think that's a bad thing for us, because we're targeting inequality. Impact, for me, is democratizing access to basic goods, like services, and creating opportunities that people don't have, basically. So it's a transformational change in the way we've been doing what we're doing. So for me, I don't know if anyone wants to give their own definition. I think, as I was well taught by Raul over here, I think it's just recognizing that every investment has impact, whether it's negative or positive. It's just capturing the positive side of it, and measure it, and make sure you understand it. I think the definition must be very flexible, and it really depends on what you focus, and what's the specific project that you're doing. But I think being flexible is important, and understand the broader concept as well. For me, it's really important in the impact aspect to have really clear outcomes. When you have those outcomes, and you are generating them, then you are generating impact. So it was something I wanted to share. Correct. At last, please, Sandra. Sandra Sainz from Promotora Social. I wanted to ask you, how was this transition, or this evolution of Promotora Social, from philanthropy to an institution that is now investing in impact investing? And probably it was, first it was only in Mexico, and now there is a probability of it to be in all Latin American regions, so can you tell us a little bit about it? Sure. Well, I'm Sandra Sainz. I come from a Mexican organization that is called Promotora Social Mexico. And for those of you who don't know what this institution is all about, it is one of the pioneer organizations in Mexico that start the movement of impact investing. So it's a pretty exciting place to be at. I recently joined the organization. I was invited to join as director of investments. And this institution has done a very, let's say, they were pioneers. They were one of the first organizations that was really trying to do impact investing from different aspects. So they started doing also philanthropy and providing donations to non-for-profit organizations that were trying to impact and improve the quality of life of the most vulnerable population in Mexico. They also started providing and looking for investment opportunities in terms of equity and also providing financing solutions to entrepreneurs and companies that were looking into that same space, which is the space of improving the quality of life of the underprivileged and the bottom of the pyramid. And thirdly, building up the ecosystem of impact investing in Mexico. So the challenge was great. I mean, the company set up a very, very large and important challenge. And they start doing it by, they start doing and learning by doing. So first they invested in funds that also were doing impact in the region or in Mexico specifically to learn from them how to do this. But they were also learning. So it was like a collective effort to understand how to better tap those needs and how to do it from an investing perspective. After 10 years of doing this, now we're in a moment where we are making a stop and rethinking from all that we've been doing, what makes sense to continue doing and what should we change in order to increase our impact. And it includes also the fact that maybe we should not only focus on one region, maybe we should also include other regions because the problems that we are facing, the challenges that we are trying to solve or help some others solve are not specific to our country. They are general in the developing world. So I think that that is an avenue that we want to explore. The other is understanding the different ways in which you can provide this impact. So in order not to extend myself so much, I would say that in a nutshell, Promotora is a pioneer. And it's still learning of how to do this effort. And it's also looking, and it's always been very collaborative in this space because we do believe that this can only be achieved, this huge goal can only be achieved if we all join forces with a different type of investors that are sitting here in the stage and all of you who are interested in this space. So that is basically what we are doing at Promotora. Thank you, thank you Sandra so much. Tania, can I return to you? Can you tell us a little bit about the challenges of impact investment for you? OK. Word to start. First sitting next to me. It has been eight years. And I guess I am not supposed to say that. Please don't. Please. Am I allowed? No, I mean it's not easy. It's very frustrating that globally, as I mentioned at the beginning, there is tons of money in the institutional side, right? And it's very frustrating and very sad that we institutional investors have been able to understand the relevance and the responsibility that we do have nowadays. I mean, not nowadays, the responsibility that we have. Basically, I think that there are three specific things that I want to share. First of all is that as Julian mentioned, institutional investors have a fiduciary responsibility, right? In terms of being responsible of handling the money either of pension plans or the company's money that is supposed to be saved to grow the company, right? And the corporate governance inside an enterprise is complicated. It's there are very few companies that have been able to modernize or to stand up with the new standards that are required for this to happen. That part, I think, has been very difficult. I mean, the task to make or to convince or to teach the top management of a company is not easy. It's the same like when you are trying to assess risk, right? Companies are there, or most of them, I am not saying that everybody, but companies are there to give value to the shareholders, right? And that's a very constrained definition of a purpose of a company. I think that that's not correct again. Companies are supposed to be there to give value to all the stakeholders, not the shareholders only. And for me, from Grupo Vimbo, I think that the stakeholders are also the communities and are also the environment, right? Because if Grupo Vimbo wants to be a sustainable company and wants to survive or to be alive in 30 years, it means that Grupo Vimbo also wants this planet to be around and the communities to be healthy, et cetera. But these things that I think that we in this room all understand, because if you are sitting here, it's because you understand this or you are trying to, you're interested in the topic. Talking about this within a committee in a huge company is really, really difficult. So that has been a huge challenge. Then I think that modernizing or introducing innovation into finance, it's also very complicated, because I mean, we all still follow the efficient frontier, right, as it was taught to us many years ago. And I think Markowitz is still in the head of all investors. And these two dimensions, ways of approaching a portfolio performance, which is risk and return, is not good enough nowadays. And the metrics and the measurement that we, as part of a financial team, still continue to report is we should throw that to a garbage. Can. Really? Or include more things and then the approach. And we need to find a way to communicate also integrity within the financial parameters, right? That's another thing that has been a huge challenge. And I think that's it. I mean, the most important for myself, right? And for corporations, it's also the challenge to invest in other things besides their businesses and besides real estate. No, that is what we have been doing before, and we will continue doing this. So to break and to have this new way of investing is something challenging as well. Yes, and besides letting them know that I always use this example. If I report to the committee the quarterly results of the portfolio, so and I say that, imagine that we have 50% of the portfolio invested in the S&P index, OK? And 50% in only government instruments, right? And I lose, I mean, the portfolio loses, let's say, 10% of the value. I mean, rate of return minus 10%. I mean, it's not good, of course, but that's the market, right? But if I present to the committee the same minus 10%, but I invested part of the portfolio in impact or in another type of asset that is not, like, traditional, I am sure that they will fire me, right? And it's not correct, again, the world.  We are going there, but still a lot of work to do. Fernanda, can you share with us some challenges as well, please? I think the biggest challenge for, I guess, like family offices is that impact has unfortunately a negative connotation. So whenever you, and it goes to a little bit what you said, when you say you're going to invest for impact, they automatically think that financial returns are going to be out of the door, which is not the case. And also the way that it's structured as a family office, like incentives for the investors that are working in the family office are based in commission. So they have zero incentive to try something new because they literally earn money by doing good financially. That's how they are measured. But I think in this sense, the challenge and also the opportunity, I guess, it's to go straight to the head of the family and try to convince them to say, OK, maybe you're not going to get the financial returns, but let's try this way or an alternative way to do what you're already doing, like philanthropy, but let's try this other way. And if you get returns, great, if you don't know. But I think the challenge right now to prove that is that we don't have enough success cases of impact in Latin America. And I think that if we can change it, I mean, if I'm in a position where I can impulse my family to take the leap of faith, basically, and prove that you can get both, you can get impact, and you can get financial returns as well, then I think that's the opportunity. We're increasingly having more cases. But I think Sandra wanted to share something about these challenges as well. I mean, I do agree that this is a new evolving industry, at least in our region. So we need to, as investors and as current investors in impact, we need to prove and showcase that impact and returns are feasible. What we need, and I mean, that is also a challenge, is we need to find the ways, the structures, that provide this, or that can generate this in the companies that we're supporting. Because social enterprises and companies that are in the impact space may need different type of structures, not the traditional financing that other companies need. And if we are creative enough to provide those financing needs in an efficient way, we may get the return. We may help these companies to be sustainable in the medium and long term, and return back the equity to the investors, which at the end of the day is going to be the story that we need to replicate in order to attract more investors into the space. So I do believe it's possible, actually, in promotoras support portfolio, we have, I'm happy to say, several cases of social companies that are doing a wonderful work with a lot of impact and that are also financially successful companies. And they are growing and that have scalable business models. And those are the type of models that we want to replicate and cherry pick and support. Because this is what really going to make our industry grow. Absolutely. Julianne, can you tell us a little bit more about which opportunities you see in Latin America for pension funds? Sure. I think a lot of impact has been focused in Latin America in private equity and private markets and smaller companies, which are private, smaller projects, which are private. But impact can also be seen in global equities and fixed income, like in broader asset classes where institutional investors are more familiarized. So having said that, I see a lot of opportunity in ideas that are already feeding to those asset classes, which pension funds are very familiarized with, that it can be easier for them to invest. So that's one that is important, especially in Latin America. If we look at our corporate pension funds and institutional investors, few of them invest in impact. But really it's because few of them invest in private markets as well. So that's one. And the same challenges that we are describing over here in impact, the same challenges are the ones facing the private markets in Latin America. A few exits, not a lot of cases of success, experience of management teams. I mean, those things go across a lot of investments in the private side. Having said that, I think also globally with the level of rates where they are, how the SIG for yield and the SIG for returns, given where the rates are globally, not especially in Latin America, but globally. I think this is still investors to find some other ways to get returns, which they have found some things in Latin America. So I think this is a good period for, I mean, we've seen a lot of institutional money looking at Latin America for where yields are, for where opportunities are. There's a nascent venture capital industry. There's a more developed private equity industry. But we have to prove ourselves, right? But I think they recognize the opportunity that's out there. And it's a growing ecosystem, knowing in Mexico and all Latin America. And I don't know if you want to share something else with us, with opportunities, Sandra? In terms of opportunities, well, I think that there's as many opportunities as there are challenges in the region. There's so many problems that are unsolved in terms of the quality of basic services that should be provided to the population that are not. One space where I see a huge potential, it's a health space. I mean, it's very known by everybody that region. It's behind in terms of quality and in coverage of health services, especially in the basis of the pyramid, but in general. And the government and the public institutions do not have the infrastructure nor the budget to be able to cope with the growth of demand of these services. There's a transition of the type of sicknesses that are attacking our population. So there's many challenges in different fronts. And that is a space where I see a lot of opportunities because there's technology that can alleviate those needs, using diagnoses, using treatments. There's many business models that work in other developing countries that have shown that they have proved successful and that we could also replicate with atropicalization, of course, of the business model, but that we could replicate in our region and that could solve a lot of problems. There's actually some cases in Mexico where companies look into what is working on in India or in other geographies and have brought those models into Mexico with success. So I think that we, I mean, if there's money and there's wish to help, there's a lot of opportunities that could turn also into good investment opportunities in terms of financial returns. And that is just one space, but I mean, there's the energy space as well, the clean energy sector where there's a lot to be done, and well, many others, not agriculture. I can think of several sectors where we are far behind of what we should be, and as a region, we can look into what else is going on in the world and what can we bring to Mexico. And there are cases for that, like for example, that they went to India and find out a very good model to be efficient, giving health care in the ophthalmological opportunities and giving access to people of the base of the pyramid to this. So as Tania mentioned earlier also that they don't have to be based in the region. These opportunities could come from elsewhere and then be replicated in the region. So I think that is really important. I don't want to... No, no, I totally agree. Although I want to add another challenge that came to my mind, which is, I think, the biggest of the two, I mean, you should have told me that the biggest challenge, I didn't mention it, regulation. Policies and... Regulation mainly, yes. It's not that there's no money and it's not that there's no will in humans, I think. It's just that we... Money and... And these initiatives do not talk to each other because there's a barrier in the middle, okay? There's a barrier in the middle that it's very difficult to break. I mean, we have been trying to break that barrier many years, for many years now. And it has been... It's not impossible. We're almost there. But it has been a stopper, right? So public policies, we need to focus on that. I mean, it's great that there are those big, incredible projects and new technology, innovation and willing from humanity, et cetera. But we need regulation, right? We need a change in regulation. In regulation. But we need to start asking for it, so... That's right. I was thinking about it before and why that hasn't happened because, of course, regulation comes after there's an if, right? And we need to raise our hands. Absolutely. We need to work a lot in public policies, really. I mean, I think that therefore should be targeted there. And I would like us to think of what can we do to promote more impact investment in Latin America. So who wants to start? I mean, marketing people. Right? Yes, well, we need to tell more stories of what we're doing and how the ecosystem is growing and how, well, having you here, all these investors interested in investing in Latin America, in different sectors for health, education, agriculture, green energies. You have a really interesting commitment in BIMBO for having all clean energy for 2000... 2025, we're supposed to be 100% renewable energy globally, which is 32 countries. It's not easy. Yes, yes, it's, I mean, you're right. Those are the examples that we want to share and we want people to know and that we need to have more... And also, Ana Laura, let me add, we need to have a common language. Absolutely. Whenever I go to see an entrepreneur and, I mean, or even a governmental project and they'll start talking about biodiversity and et cetera. And we, I mean, we in the financial teams really don't understand your language. I mean, we need to find a common language. I think that's also important. And I think to that point, which is very valid, we often find entrepreneurs and often find projects that are not aware that they compete with other investment possibilities around the world. So I think the region, as a whole, needs to be aware that as an investor, I mean, you can invest in a lot of projects. So you really are competing with the whole world with a lot of projects, whether they're impact or not. We're seeking both. So it's not because you have impact, then we should look into the project. I mean, we often find projects that are very good, they're very nice ideas, very impactful, but are not ready for institutional money. I think that's a very strong challenge in Latin America, no? The beaches, like what we've seen in the US, what we've seen in Europe. Completely different, I mean, the culture. Let me ask one statistic that for me was impressive when we were investing in 56 funds in Mexico. What we asked them to tell us how many opportunities they had seen and how many at the end they invested in. It was 1,000 opportunities and the investments were eight. So that's how funds select their investment. I think to that point, I think the ecosystem in Latin America is just developing, right? So I think there's a challenge in cultural as well because we can't compare ourselves with the United States that they have a lot of success cases and basically when you're young, you want to be, and I think I was talking to you about this, you want to be an entrepreneur. You're kind of like one innovation, right? In Latin America, I think if I tell my parents I want to be an entrepreneur, they would have a heart attack, you know? They're like, no, go study law or do, you know? But it's great that it's changing. Yeah, so I think in the positive side, because I tend to be a little more, you know? Yes. Like positive, the cultural is changing. Like entrepreneurs now, little kids want to be entrepreneurs.  That company that is successful. Not only like national but regional. There is a study in Mexico that says that kids between 15 and 25, 65% of them want to be entrepreneurs. So we have a very good base there of people wanting to be entrepreneurs. And if you asked our parents' generations, it was like, no, I will get a stable job and raise a family. I don't want to entertain you anymore. Get out of my house. Get out. Yeah, I think that adding to that point, what I see when I compare the entrepreneurs in the region with entrepreneurs outside, and I had the opportunity in my previous professional lives to work with entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley, to work with entrepreneurs in Israel. And what I see, and it's stunning, is the mindset, the global mindset that these entrepreneurs elsewhere have, and that we lack in our own region, you know? Which is very sad because, I mean, if an entrepreneur in Latin is solving a problem, a health problem, or some basic problems of humanity, and they are solving it in an efficient way, they need to understand that these can be a solution for the whole world, right? It's not just about Mexico. It's not about Monterey or Mexico City. It's something that can provide a solution to a huge problem that humanity faces. And if they have this shift, I mean, this mindset, then it's very different how they go around it, go around growing the company, thinking how to scale it, how to make the product really competitive worldwide, and comparing themselves with companies in every region, right? Now we don't compete with our neighbor. We compete with the guys in India, in Israel, in Japan. I don't know. So we need to know that the boundaries that we used to have are gone, technology has evaporated them, and now everybody has to think global in order to succeed and to scale, right? And dream big. I think something that we have to promote in all the generations is to dream big. Definitely. Start dreaming big. I said it before in Merida. That's why she's looking at me. I already heard you said that. I already heard you. But it's true. It was a panel of women. And when you see women's projects, usually it's like, I will sell my soaps in this small. Hey, there are a lot of boutique hotels where if you have organic soaps, and go and find all of those and convince them that your product is great, and then you can scale from Mexico to Guatemala to Chile to everywhere. But it's start thinking big. Something that is really important for them to understand is that the first things that investors see is the size of your market. What's the size of the market of your product? If the size of the market is attractive and you can really grow, then it could be attractive. If the model is right, then it would be attractive. But sometimes this is not in their minds when they start. It's like, oh, I know how to do this. So I will start by doing this because I know how to do it. And it's like, OK, change your mind. Watch the market. You want to say something? No, I totally agree. I think the big difference between a European pitch, a US pitch, on a project, on a company, and a Latin America pitch is precisely the addressable market. We tend to focus more on the schools in our city or the clients within our community or the south of Mexico or Chile, sometimes regional. But there's many times that the addressable market is not only your community. You shouldn't be thinking that limited. And when we go and see what others entrepreneurs are doing in the US and in Europe, well, they are always thinking about the global scale they can have and thinking about the Facebooks of the world and those types of companies that really have taken over the whole addressable market. So definitely I think that's a challenge that we have and that's something that we need to work on. And also building teams. I think an important part is to acknowledge what are your skills and what are you lacking of. And if you're lacking of analysis or if you're lacking of technology knowledge, then have a team that covers those lacks and that really fulfills everything that is needed to have a successful company. Correct. Do you want any? I'll do that. Okay. They ask us if you have questions and answers. Yes, please. There is... Please don't be rude. Please be rude. Hello, my name is Pablo Cervantes. I'm a managing partner of PC Capital, a growth social impact manager in Mexico and Latin America. I want to thank you all for your words and your experience. And I want a special thanks to Sandra and to Ana Laura because they have supported us for more than five years. So thank you very much. And my question goes to Fernanda. Fernanda. You are... Well, your family seems that it's a very successful family. I don't know which generation you are. First, if you're second, third, I don't know. I'm third generation. Third generation. Can you share with us what's your strategy about investing outside of Chile and if you invest in direct investors, funds, fund of funds, what type of strategy do you do? I mean, I can only talk about my experience because my family is a different thing. So what we're developing is a fund called MoCyco Ventures. We haven't yet done any investment because we want to be very critical of how we position it and how we can address it because I think the challenge right now that's happening and it's that everyone in the world thinks that in fact, investing is fashionably or in trend, right? Because exactly like the third generation, which I'm part of, is changing the way they're thinking. We can see the actual problems and issues that the world has. We can see climate change. We can see the levels of inequality. So now the third generation doesn't want to invest just for the sake of earning money. You want to invest with purpose, right? And so I think in my point of view, what we've been developing is more of a strategic way to position impact as real impact. Not as just this greenwashing that's going around but because of this generational change. So for us, what we are doing is trying to understand very well what is the market need and where we want to position ourselves. So we haven't really invested in direct funds or anything but I think personally it would be direct investments. I actually was like, I was telling Julian now, like, oh my God, I hope that question is not for me. It was. And do you think it's difficult to convince more of your family to look at this investment? Because I mean, and I mentioned what has happened in Chile right now, like these things are things that, you know, we've been talking as a family for years, you know, and I think my family has been a pioneer in the way of how they've been doing things. And of course there's always, you know, something else that you can do but I think, and I love this phrase, like let's not the perfect be the enemy of the good, you know. You can't change things one day to the next. So it's like an evolution. I think right now, because of the third generation, because what I mentioned, it's much easier to have this conversation of how important it is to actually include impact in what you're doing because it's no longer something that you can, like shove under the rock. It's something that we're seeing, we're living. And I don't think it's only Latin America. I think it's worldwide. Absolutely. Is there another question? And there is one hand there, please. This question is for Juliana. I think you work in pension funds and a lot of the pension funds in Latin America use international vehicles to make their investments. Like for example, close in funds for mutual funds to invest international. So why you as a client of these funds, you don't ask for impact investment vehicles to do your private equity investments or if you have done that before, what is your experience with that? Yeah, thank you. So you raise a very interesting point which Tanya was hinting about before. So in the very specific case of Mexico, it is difficult to access those funds that you're referring to because of regulation. In case of Chile and Peru and other countries, it's easier, although it's not as easy as in other developed countries to get these types of structures and get them going into impact investing. I'll tell you about a specific case where we are jointly working in Mexico to get this going, which is we are building up a structure so the corporates in Mexico and the pension funds and institutional money can actually invest in impact investing. There was previously never a strategy that allowed them to do it. So that's what Tanya was referring to before. Even if you won it, you couldn't. So that's a great barrier that we're trying to wreck and I think we're almost getting there. In other types of Latin America, perhaps you know better, but it's easier, it's less constrained. And I think they're starting to invest in these types of products as the theme gets more focused and it gets trendier and the big, I mean the KKRs of the world and all of those guys are starting to develop their own strategies with an impact and offer them to the broader public. I think that's becoming more and more common. But I do want to emphasize that regulation indeed is a problem for access. I would like to ask you to give like two minutes conclusion or a conclusion please. Can we start with you, Sandra? Well, I think you would like to conclude here. I mean on my personal side, I would say that investing with impact is something that you connect with from the heart and it's not something that you do because it's right to do it. It's just because you feel that you have to do it. When I personally got into the opportunity to work, I used to work in the World Bank and I worked there a good part of my professional life. I don't want to put numbers on you so that you don't do them back. But that's where I really become in love with development and with the impact and I really saw the power of money in very concrete ways of how to impact the population and the life of the impoverished and that changed my mind now. So since then I think that my professional career has only been towards impact and I think and I'm positive that this is only going to grow because as Fernanda mentioned and we all did here, this is not something nice to have, this is a requirement. Society cannot continue if we do not have consciousness of how to solve the great problems and challenges of humanity. So for me, this is not a trend, this is a future and it's just a way of how you are gonna tackle it from where you are, right? And there's many actors and each one has to do its role to evolve and especially in the region where it's a very ancient and new ecosystem. We have to work together and there's a lot to do with them. Thank you. Fernanda, please. After that is a little bit, no, difficult, but I... Well, we have a few minutes or no. We are done. I agree with Sandra. I think my conclusion and I think it's very good to have all these different actors sitting in a panel is basically the idea of collaboration because at the end you're tackling subjects that we need to solve. So if we don't collaborate each player with each other and basically build on more support and to tackle all these problems that we need to solve then without collaboration, I mean, I don't think we can solve anything. So I think for my conclusion would be, hopefully we all collaborate another. And yeah, these are very important subjects that, you know, they're very real in the moment that we are leaving so we can no longer ignore them, right? So yeah, so that's a difficult one, but it's... So if we abstract a little bit and look at the money that's going around in the world and look at the 17 trillion dollars that the corporate America has in pension funds and the three billion dollars that Mexico has and growing into doubling the size in three years and Chile the same thing and Peru and Latin America. I mean, thinking about the amount of money that's available for investments, it's just mind blowing. And if only a small proportion were to get to this project, well, there would be a significant change, no? But we need to understand that the right incentives have to be put in place to link that mass of money to these impact projects that everyone wants to see developing, no? So I would just say that we have to remember that these projects are... They have to be good in incentives. It's not charity. We have to understand that in an institutional perspective way. We're not a foundation. I mean, it's not charity. So they have to compete in risk and return in business plans and in all of other matters with the traditional investing and perhaps even having more value by being impactful, no? Great. Daniel, just leave me 30 seconds. All of them, both. I think I just want to add that. It's, as they said, it's not a trend. And I think that it's not because we are supposed to do. It's because now the market is requiring that, starting to require that, right? I continuously receive questions from investors, I mean, equity investors. What are you doing in this type of matters? It's not only doing ESG checked. It's going a little bit further. And I think the market is starting to understand that. Not yet maybe in Mexico, but globally the market is going to be a demand from the market. So as long as you start or, I mean, put your forces into this, it would be much better for your company, but if you are an entrepreneur, much better for you to communicate this. If you are a corporation, much better for you in your stock price. If you have a commitment on this regard as well. So just put it in your agenda. It's going to be a demand from the market eventually. Great. So for me, just please look at Latin America and invest meaning with meaning. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.