Okay, it's a great setup for our first panel of the day, setting the stage, promoting financial capability among low-income populations, if I could ask the panel to come up. Well, welcome, everybody. I'm so glad to be here as the moderator and host for our first panel, Janice Boudler with the JPMorgan Chase Foundation. And we have a great conversation lined up for you that I hope is going to set the stage for the rest of our conversation for the day. But I really want to start by thanking all of you for joining us for the conversation today. I've known a lot of you in the room for a long time now, and those of you who don't know, I actually started in the financial health field on the practitioner side. And of course, now I'm on the funder and sponsor side. So now that I'm on the funder and sponsor side, I get applause all the time. People like thank me and they clap for me. But when I was on the practitioner side, that didn't happen a lot. So I wanted to actually start by just a round of applause, thanking all of you for the work that you guys all do on behalf of low-income families every day. And just thanking you for coming out for such an important conversation. I promise the tech guy would hang on to this. So that'll have to be my last applause for now. So I thought we would start this conversation just by acknowledging how much the financial health field has changed over the last five years. I mean, we really have a whole new set of insights into how we help advance the cause of financial stability for low-income families, what it means to be financially healthy if we look at what we're learning from behavioral economics, from human-centered design, choice architecture, the way that technology has changed. Also the landscape in which we're working has changed dramatically. We've had a global recession. We've also had huge advances in non-profit sophistication. And we recognize that those partners working hand in glove, private, public, and non-profit sectors is how we're going to reach many of the most vulnerable, the folks here in the room that we're all thinking and working on behalf of every day. One of the other things that we've learned is that precision really matters. I mean, for those of you who've been working on this for a while, right, we used to just talk about financial literacy. We used to have to be literate. Now we know that on any given issue, we have to be particularly poignant about what it is that we're trying to address, what particular barrier a family is experiencing, that those things change over time, and that there aren't any single silver bullets out there that are going to, boom, make a family financially healthy for the rest of their lives, right? That's just not how our lives work. Last year, colleagues working with a lot of folks here on the stage, a lot of you in the room, J.P. Morgan Chase Foundation, CFSI, our financial solutions lab partners, the Institute, I could go on. We were focused a lot on income volatility and short-term liquidity gaps. We've already heard that come up this morning, knowing that just those small things really trip up families. We were really proud to work with CFSI to graduate the first cohort of the Financial Solutions Lab. And this year, we're turning our attention to financial shocks, something that where Clint is going to be talking about a little bit more on our panel. But that kind of specificity and really focusing on understanding the problem and the set of solutions has really helped us advance the conversation forward. And so with that in mind, we're all here to talk about what is probably like the holy grail in the financial health field, which is figuring out how we leverage tax time and specifically how we capture that savings that is the financial cushion that we talk a lot about throughout financial health. We're going to hear about all the liquid assets people don't have. But this is the moment in time where potentially they might have them, and we want to figure out how to help them keep them. So that's where we're really, we're going to start this conversation. And I think what you're going to hear on this panel is another example of why this conference is so important because we're bringing the latest research and insight into this field and mashing it up with the practitioner perspective of what's going on in the ground. And that is where we see magic happen. Not to put too much pressure on you all for the panel, but it's going to be magic. So in the interest of time, I'm actually not going to read everybody's glorious bios, which I as a speaker almost always find painfully embarrassing.  You have their bios. And we're really going to structure this as a conversation. I've got a couple of opening questions for our panelists.  So with that, Rachel, I want to start with you. And really, I mean, I think everybody here probably knows CFSI has really been on the forefront of pushing the conversation around the intersection of consumer behavior, products, services, and solutions. And one of the most illuminating insights we've had over the years is that, in fact, lecturing people about what to do and bad, bad, poor people, you should be making better uses of budgets actually doesn't jive with what people want. And we know that lining up solutions with their aspirations and their needs actually will get us a lot farther. So can you start and just give us a sense of what the latest data analysis are telling us about what people are experiencing when they try to save and maybe some insights of what they actually want? Yeah, thanks for asking the question that way, because I think it's really important. And it is, there's only so far you can get in swimming against the tide of what people actually want or experiencing in their lives. And so I was going to show one visual to sort of get us started. And then, of course, it ended up being up, I'm pretty sure, by accident already. So you've now already seen it over and over for a long, long time. But let me show you this one thing anyway, because I think that it's important. And the reason I wanted to show it is I think that seeing the visual matters. So in this work that CFSI has done in partnership with NYU, the Financial Access Initiative, in particular, and sponsored by Citi and the Ford Foundation and Omidyar, we spent a lot of time delving into the deep day-to-day finances of people. And what we've seen is, of course, unsteadiness. And the reason why I want to point out unsteadiness is because I think we have this assumption of steadiness underlying so much of the advice we give people. So what we saw in the diaries was that on average, people have five months in any given year where income is 25% more or less than their average monthly income. And what was super surprising was we saw just as much volatility in consumption. And I want to acknowledge JP Morgan Chase's Institute's research, which has been quite similar, but on a much broader scale. And one thing that I found fascinating was when Fiona and her team first put out their research, my partner Jonathan Morduk thought their consumption findings had to be wrong. But the idea that people's spending goes up and down turns out to be entirely accurate. And so what that means is that people are constantly trying to weather this up and down-ness of their financing. But so much of the advice we give people assumes steadiness. When you think about budgeting, we've generally thought about let's sit down with somebody and go through their expenses.  And we'll just figure out how they're going to pay those on a monthly basis and then forget about it. And then you wouldn't worry about variable expenses separately. But those are already probably discretionary. So let's figure out how to help people spend less with their discretionary. But when you figure out that a lot of people's incomes and spending looks like this, I think that whole budgeting process has to be rethought. And what we've heard over and over from people in the diaries is that they're budgeting daily. They're budgeting on a daily or weekly basis. When they get their schedule from work and they figure out how many hours they're actually going to have this week, or when they get their commission check and they figure out how much they actually earned, it's so many people have really a huge amount of unsteadiness. And so I think that that changes your assumption about what people actually wanted to do. A lot of times they're not necessarily thinking about some long-term objective. They're thinking about how to manage this constant up and down in and out of their money. That's great. And so the client coming to you, this idea of shocks, which there's some sort of cruel irony, I think, built into the name because the shocks aren't actually a surprise, people might know that they're coming, but that hasn't made it any less difficult for them to manage it. So talk to us a little bit about what your research is finding here. Absolutely. Before I get to my research, I'd like to talk about myself, which is my favorite topic. A few weeks ago, McCall asked me to come and speak on this panel, and inevitably the same week my car broke down. Now, I own a car, most of you who own a car know, eventually over the course of the lifetime of your ownership, the car's going to break down, you're going to have to pay to fix it. But, and I'm not saying this is McCall's fault, I didn't think it was going to be that day. And that's typical of most households. But then turning to our data, the Pew Survey of American Family Finances, which was inspired by the great work that CFSI and others have done, shows that I'm actually not that special. The experience that I had with my car is similar to the same two experiences that six in 10 households in the US have each year. It's expenses that we can predict are going to happen, but we don't know when they're going to happen, and we don't know the magnitude of them when they befall us. And what we see in the households who suffer financial shocks is that they're expensive. We asked households about the most expensive financial shock they'd had in the past year, one that we thought they'd be able to remember. And the median cost, the typical cost, was $2,000, half a month of the household's gross income.  Could anyone actually afford to send me today half of your monthly income? Would you please? Now, and this is an audience that's a ceiling audience. It's people who are generally well paid, not as much as we all deserve, but well paid, and who are aware of the financial challenges that households face, and everyone in this audience would likely struggle with an expense of that magnitude. And this struggle is what we're seeing among households in the population. No one's going to legislate car accidents out of existence or legislate illness out of existence. The marker that we see that makes this problematic is that half of households who experience a financial shock have difficulty making ends meet in its aftermath. Households aren't prepared to use their savings, to use the access that they have to credit, and to use other financial means to weather financial shocks. And it's not just a short-term problem these households are facing. The households that we talk to, most told us that they still hadn't recovered from their most expensive shock at the time of the survey. Three, five, six months later. And it poses a challenge for those of us who are interested in helping to support households in building savings and accessing their resources. When we think about retirement savings, when we think about savings for home ownership, it's one pattern process. We build savings, the balance should always be going up. But what Rachel highlighted is really the point. For households with short-term problems, short-term challenges, and it's really all of us, it's building up savings and then responding. It's building up savings and then responding many times over the course of the year. And it's a fundamentally different set of strategies, a fundamentally different set of challenges that households face. It's one thing to use an opportunity like tax time and tax time is a fantastic opportunity to help households to build a rainy day fund. But households also need help to know when it's raining and to know what they should do when it is. And so I'm excited to be here today and for the conversation towards solutions to help households to be more financially secure and better off. Thank you. So, Debra, I'm turning to you. I mean, where we almost instantly go right away is to that solutions conversation. We're gonna get to products and services in just a moment. But we often gloss over like, whoa, before we can get people to adopt like our latest greatest awesome solutions, we need to actually get them to the table. And we need to actually get them to a position where those EITC or CTC dollars are flowing. And yet every year, even though we've now all been at this for quite a while, we know that millions of dollars are left on the table. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing to try to get at that. How do we get more people coming in accessing those dollars? Great, thank you. And thank you for having us here. So as many people in this room know and have been working on for probably their careers, New York City estimates suggest that one in five New York City eligible households who qualify for EITC currently are not getting it. At the same time, one third of all filers are eligible to receive free high quality tax preparation through Vita sites, yet only 3% are actually getting those. Estimates also suggest that nearly 77% use paid tax preparers, whose fees are generally around $150. These filers are also missing out on access to a suite of other financial empowerment services, which we've talked a little bit about already and we're gonna talk a little bit more about today, such as one-in-one financial counseling, savings products and snap screening. So with this missed opportunity in mind, I'd like to spend the next few moments talking about three things. The first one I wanna share with you what the administration is doing and has done to increase the investment in what I call the free tax preparation infrastructure for New York City, which again, so many people in this room have been working on for many years and are our partners today on that. Two, I wanna share a little bit about our efforts around a human-centered design process, otherwise known as service design, and how we have been thinking about making sure that this infrastructure is serving customers the very best way that it can. And finally, I wanna talk about the learnings from our process from service design and how we've attempted to integrate them and how we are gonna integrate them more into the future. So as many of you know, IRS has run the Vite to Tax Program for many, many years and the Office of Financial Empowerment has historically supported this effort through assisting with marketing and coordination on really a shoestring budget. Last year, the DeBlasio administration recognizing the key importance of all the work that we're all doing in this room and the importance of tax time invested an unprecedented $3 million to expand free tax preparation services and enhanced marketing efforts. So not only was that investment made, but that investment was baselined into the city budget, making it really a core service for New York City low-income residents. So I'm proud to report that after, again, a lot of the work of the people in this room that I will keep mentioning is I know what it took and that we were able to complete more than 50% more tax returns than the previous year. So that's an increase from around 90,000 returns to 150,000 returns. And so that is a system. A system has been solidified and enhanced and will continue to grow. So these 150,000 returns translated into an estimated of 250 million savings from diversions from private preparers as well as tax refunds. So as I alluded to earlier, as we scaled up the city's investment and the number of New Yorkers served, we wanted to make sure we were maximizing this time and so people would show up at the table and of course get the credits at which they were eligible. So towards that end, we partnered with City Community Development, Parsons School of Design, DASIS Lab, and the Mayor's Fund to Advance New York, CEO and Food Bank for New York City in a process called designing for financial empowerment. So that's an initiative that uses service design to ensure that every eligible New Yorker took advantage of the services. So as I think many people in this room probably have been familiar with service design or human-centered design, it's a process and we wanted to make sure sort of when we went into this process that the question we were answering was why are financially vulnerable New Yorkers paying for service that they can get for free in our efforts to attempt to secure more people to use our sites? So now I'm gonna talk a little bit about that process. So with any customer service, how the services design is implemented plays a key role, not only in bringing people to the table but also ensuring that the customer is satisfied and continues to use the service. So working with Parsons, which specializes in these sorts of things, we were able to move beyond the traditional scope of public sector stakeholder engagement, which in the best case scenario often involves identifying challenges, getting feedback, and then producing the service. So what was different about this process was we had a whole team from the beginning, whether it was a low-income tax filer, a private preparer, a community-based organization, a financial service partner, another government agency, the IRS, were all at the table from the beginning and to the end. So we were able to bring the diverse stakeholders to give feedback along the way and there was a real ownership throughout the process to the end. So this process brought to a lot of interesting insights to light. I'm gonna highlight quickly two of them and then you can sort of see how we're moving forward with the process. So the first one is, and we were really surprised to hear this, that apparently filers did not generally recognize Vita as a brand and they did not always have a meaningful level of trust within that system. And that's super interesting because despite the fact that actually just like private preparers, H&R Block or Liberty Tech Service, obviously Vita's sites are not necessarily connected. They're a network run by many different organizations. However, with H&R Block and Liberty Tech Services, there is this unified brand that the filers seem to recognize. So it really got us thinking, well, how can we think about, especially with the city resources, how can we think about this concept of lack of trust despite the fact that these services are high quality services. And two, this is very concrete. We heard feedback about long wait times during tax season at many of our partner sites and many of you who are doing this work know that that's kind of what it is. So finally, as a result of the service design process, we have begun to make some key improvements. Again, this is the only second year that the city has invested like significant resources in this project. So for the first time, we have a unified brand, NYC free tax prep. So keep a lookout. Many people in this room were involved in the logo and the branding of this effort. The city has rolled out a comprehensive marketing and advertising campaigns that highlights this new logo. And the language and the angle of the campaign was also informed by the feedback from the design process. And in terms of the long wait times, this year we have more than 200 NYC free tax prep sites. We are opening two more in Brownsville and Morasena. We've worked with our partners to extend their hours and days of operation, and we've created additional sites that take appointments as opposed exclusively walk-ins, hopefully to improve the customer service. We are also partnering with city community development to increase the convenience of VitaSites. VitaSites at several large employers, again trying to bring sort of this tax sites to where people are at. And we're hoping that this will increase the capacity of the overall system. So we're extremely proud of the hard work and commitment of everybody in this room and the partners and we're excited that we've been able to have really some concrete lessons from this human-centered design process. And I think a main takeaway from all the things I've said is that I think that what the city is doing is we're again really creating this infrastructure. And so hopefully with a core set of high quality services across the infrastructure, groups and other communities will be able to innovate locally and take best practices that ultimately when proven, we can scale across the system. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So Sarah, let's start now. Let's talk a little bit about solutions. So you did some interesting research looking at what people actually think, how they're thinking about savings. And I think I found it really interesting because if I look at what we've already said on the panel, people know that they need to save, right? Like we're not telling them anything they don't know. They know that they're going to get hit with these shocks. They don't know when they're coming. They don't know how much. But everybody here and most low income families we work with know that this stuff is coming at them the size of an Indiana Jones boulder, right? And they come up with really creative ways to try to manage that risk in their lives. And some of it's high tech, some of it is really low tech. And actually just a quick aside, so we are a key sponsor of the Financial Solutions Lab, all about the tech enabled solutions and probably to the embarrassment of some of my colleagues. I admitted on a panel that the way I paid for my honeymoon was with spare change, that I had essentially over a period of years starting from when I was in high school as that waitress got in the habit of, that probably dates me a little bit. I don't know, the last time anybody paid cash at a restaurant. But when I was a waitress people did and I saved all of my change. And then I just never knew what to do with it and over years and years it saved up and I paid for my whole honeymoon with spare change. I'm actually really bad at technology. So I did when I was looking at your study and seeing how people are finding this mashup of high tech and low tech ways to save. I thought, yes that really resonates not only with me personally but I think probably the way people again are actually living their lives. So tell us a little bit about what you found. Yeah, so we did research on lower income families to get a sense of what their lives were like for most of the year and then what their lives were like specifically around tax time. And so we really heard the stories that Rachel and Clint were sharing where people are experiencing a lot of volatility and having trouble responding to that volatility. And so it's not surprising in that context how positively people respond to tax time. People use phrases like it's better than Christmas or it's a bonus or it's like hitting the lottery. So that moment where they go into the taxpayer prepare and they find out the number is a really big deal. And so part of what families are doing occurs around that time. So they're already saving. In our study about 17% of refund dollars were put into savings accounts at least initially. Now in line with what we heard from Rachel and Clint before by about six months later more than half of that money had been spent. So we could view that as a negative thing. We could view that as a positive thing but that savings was being spent. But we also heard families describing other things that they did with their money. And so some of these were along the lines of what Janice was saying. We heard families saying I give it to my brother and tell him not to give it back to me. Or one couple that I always think about said we have a passbook only savings account in another town. So we can't go take money out of there very conveniently.  So families are engaging in some strategies themselves. They don't need technology to do that. They need a lack of technology and a lack of access in those cases to save. But when we thought more about how families were spending their refund dollars, we started realizing that we perhaps needed to think more flexibly about what counted as savings. So in the research we did, classifying families money to make a pie chart was like one of the most contentious things, right? Like when you buy socks, are they like indulgent socks and they're a treat or is that regular consumption?  So doing all of those classification things are really difficult. And we realized after we had sort of agreed on a way to classify that there were some things we were classifying as paying down debt. Some things we were classifying as buying durable goods that maybe we should think about more flexibly as the way that families build a personal safety net for themselves. And so there were a few areas that I'll highlight where we saw that going on. So one, we typically think of paying down debt as families digging themselves out of a hole, right? But there's another way we can think about paying down debt, which is that it increases your ability to incur debt in the future, right? So there's only so long you can go without paying your rent before your landlord evicts you. So if you get caught up, you can fall behind again more safely.  But if you pay her back at tax time, you can call on her again. And so even though we think about paying down debt as in some ways the opposite of saving, I think we wanna take a more flexible approach to how we think about debt payment. Likewise, when we think about current consumption, so families would tell us we were in Boston. They would say we went to Costco or BJs and those are the big wholesale clubs, right? Where people buy a ton of stuff all at once. Say when we get that refund, that's one of the trips that we make. And so families told us stories about doing things like buying hundreds of dollars worth of meat and putting it in a freezer chest or buying a lot of pizza bagels or buying a lot of cans of soup, those kinds of things. So that counts as current consumption in the sense that they're going and buying groceries. But what they're also doing is they're buying savings in the form of food. And it has two advantages.  And the other advantage is that you can't spend it by accident, right? You don't have to give it to your brother, but most stores don't accept pizza bagels as legal tender. And so it's a safer way to save in some sense. So families are setting up ways to save beyond just savings accounts that I think we wanna be flexible about as we have this conversation today. And we appreciate the methods that families have come up with themselves to try to create this safety net. So this is a space that is undergoing rapid iteration and maybe we should think about pizza bagels. I mean, that's not a bad idea. And I've mentioned the Financial Solutions Lab quite a bit, but just to shout out that those applications are currently open, looking for solutions around the issue of weathering shocks. And even what we've heard so far just gives you a glimpse of the kind of creativity that we see and the reason why we host these challenges in the first place. The CFSI really leading that work. But it is true that, you know, get coming really for anybody that this is a space where it feels like there is a new app every week. I mean, there is something new all the time. And we have this mashup of low tech and high tech ways. So Sarah, maybe I can come to you and then we can just, I'd love thoughts from across the panel is all this innovation moving us forward or maybe where do we still need innovation to focus or innovators to focus. So you said Sarah, but you're looking at me. So I think that maybe I should still answer. Yes. I'm sorry, yes. Which is fair. Yes, sorry for everybody. Sarah Gordon, but you're Rachel, sorry. I thought you were doing something on the panel. Yes, that is probably a glitch in my brain between the two. Sorry about that. I just wanted to not, you know, jump in if I wasn't supposed to. But you know, I do think all the low tech things that this Sarah on our panel is describing are really true. Like we hear the same stories over and over in the diaries. And I think that the most successful solutions are gonna be the ones that leverage these instincts people have and this workarounds that people make on their own, but figure out how to introduce technology because that's not necessarily scalable, right? Like you, the bank of mom works because my mom is not gonna, or the bank of my sister, whoever it is you're giving the money to, that works in part because of something that could be universalized and then brought to more people, right? So in that case, what's at work is a limit on my ability to withdraw. So there's a, we had a diaries family who did the same thing, a guy named Robert who gives his money to his mom and he describes it as she's a lock box, right? She will not give me the cash unless I'm really gonna use it for a good purpose. So savings accounts for the most part are designed with no limits on withdrawal. And in fact, this core idea struck me so strongly because I had first heard it from the IDA field where one of the reasons people liked IDAs was, well, I can't get the money, I can't use it. So how hard is it then to create an app where it's harder to get your money than just clicking yes, right? That seems doable to me. And so if this is some core instinct that a lot of people have, then shouldn't we leverage technology to make that much more achievable for more people at scale? So I continue to be excited by both. I think it really is about human-centered design and paying attention to what people need and then incorporating it into technology. And I genuinely think what we're seeing in the tech space is different than what we saw even five years ago. The financial services sector is at the beginning of a wave of innovation that is new. And I say that even sitting in a place that called itself the Center for Financial Services Innovation, we've been talking about this for a decade, it is different right now. Because financial services is a regulated industry, it's really been much slower to be attacked by tech entrepreneurs than travel or retail sales. But it's happening now. And once it gets going, I don't think there's any reason to think it won't take up sort of the same speed and power that you've seen technology take up in other fields. So Sarah, let me actually come back to you. And I'd love for you to weigh in on this, on this mashup of low tech and high tech and maybe based on what you saw with families where you think there's still some space for innovation. So we collected our data several years ago. So I think things really changed so rapidly in the pace of academic research is so slow that we're not always best positioned to say this is what families are experiencing now, given the technology now is not what it was several years ago or even a year ago. But I think there's, as we think about innovations, we wanna, there are ways to do, as Rachel was saying, learning from what people are already doing and thinking how can that sort of be realized in technology, but then also making sure that we don't sort of disrupt the successful techniques that people have developed themselves by attempting to make them better with technology. So I think there's gonna be that tension there. But then also, thinking about the other main factor which is not sort of a technology problem but that people have these dips and spikes and also not enough income, right? The dips and spikes might be more manageable if you had a higher overall income. And so thinking about those broader issues as part of our attempt to develop solutions is important. Deborah Allen, let me come to you. I'd love for you to weigh in on this but maybe also specifically with the lens of service delivery. So in your remarks, you were talking a lot about how you guys are applying these things to thinking about how we get more people to draw down on EITC and CTC. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic of product innovation but also specifically innovation in the nonprofit sector and maybe what public and private actors can do to support that. Thank you. I have a lot of thoughts in my head. Particularly about the technology and I hope to answer your question as well. And that when we look at the scale of people who are not claiming EITC right now, it's over to estimates again. The data that we have is actually another issue that we can talk about. But estimates are around 200,000 people are not claiming. So if I just said that 150,000 returns were done last year, you can see that if an additional 200,000 are not claiming, how are we possibly going to do that without some sort of technology solution? And so I think that we spent a lot of time thinking about how can government and how can now that we have this infrastructure. And I say that slowly because it's only the second year that we are now really funding it in a deeper way. How can we create opportunities for that innovation to happen and then given the sort of the constraints of government and the opportunities of government, how can we then scale it? So it's something that's gonna require a lot more thinking through, I think. Clint, do you wanna weigh in on this? Yeah, particularly on the challenge that innovators have, if we take, for example, really simple savings products, a checking account, a savings account, there's the product that you build and then there's the product that people actually use. We see people in our data who are saving in their checking account and doing so very successfully. We see plenty of people in our data who are effectively using their savings account as a transaction account and paying an awful lot of money and fees to do so. And so in these innovations, it's important for us, we think, to see two things. The first is the flexibility that balances liquidity, the ability of households to access the resources that are theirs against the friction that helps them to leave the money when they don't really need it. But then also being careful not to reify a given account or account structure. It doesn't matter that I put my money in account number one and not account number two. It matters that I grow my pie of savings overall. And so from a measurement perspective, from an evaluation perspective, and also from a design and implementation perspective, the ultimate goal isn't dollars in accounts, it's financial well-being of households. And there are a lot of different pathways and I think that's part of the exciting innovation. There are a lot of different pathways to that goal right now. Yeah, I wanna echo that, because I think I agree so strongly that ultimately you're just trying to improve the financial health and well-being of a household. And we're, as a field, making this progression over time to being able to figure out more and more what it is that we want to measure and therefore what it is we're trying to get to, right? So we started out with, as you said, like what do people know, I feel like the financial capability conversation got us much closer to what people are actually doing and now we need to move the next layer down to what are people achieving? They actually have, and I feel like it goes beyond even if people have savings that they can draw down, it goes to, are they avoiding hardship, right? Are they able to achieve their dreams and objectives over time? Do they feel like the CFPB has done a lot of work to define this and consumer research to try and understand what do people actually self-identify as the objective and see if it's done our own work to try and say, well, what do we think the objective should be? To just try and move further and further, I think of it as up a layer of abstraction of what people actually need and want. So I've got one more question. We'll go down the line for panel and then I would love to take some questions from the audience if we're doing okay on time. Yeah, okay. So as we move into audience Q and A, I would love to get your guys' thoughts. What do you guys see as some of the key barriers right now when we're trying to innovate to help families become more financially secure, more financially healthy? Start anywhere somebody wants to raise their hand and tackle that. Just kind of repeat the two major factors that we talked about earlier, which is the overall amount of income that people have and then the volatility of that income. And it's not just the volatility of wages, but people depend on help from relatives. That can be volatile as well. People depend on child support payments. Those can be volatile as well. And even delivering assistance through the tax refund system introduces volatility, right? Because we give you a big spike once a year. So there's a lot of volatility and income and then as Clint artfully pointed out, we have volatility in expenses, right? And so I think those are the two, the volatility and then the overall amount of income are the most important factors that stand in families' ways of achieving financial well-being. Take a little different spin here. I think that from, again, our perspective in terms of really what becomes a collective impact approach to tackling, making sure people get the benefits to which they should get, or even financial health in general. It's really, I think, making sure, especially with tax time, making sure that we have accurate baseline data. And I think at this point, we're using estimates from the IRS from 2013 and those estimates are derived from other estimates that I know I'm here with researchers. So maybe you'll correct me and give me some solution that I don't know. But it is one, we're spending a lot of man hours trying to understand what's actually happening on the ground. But two, if we really wanna know if money's actually making a difference, we need to know where we're starting. So all of those things obviously are hugely important. I wanna add one more layer and that's the psychology that households bring to their money. We collect our data over the course of a calendar month and if we had interviewed everyone the first day of the month, 75% of households would have described their family as financially secure. If we had interviewed everyone on the last day of the month, only about a third of households would have described their family as financially secure. Now, we didn't see big differences in income. We didn't see big differences in wealth. What we saw was what people were focusing on and what was informing the way they felt about their money. At the time, this is problematic for savings because when did they have the money? They had the money on the first. They felt okay, maybe they didn't choose to save in the way that they wished that they would have if they'd been making that decision on the 30th. And so giving people tools to understand the ebbs and flows within months and across months will be helpful in overcoming some of these psychological barriers. Yeah, I would add to that that there's not only a psychological issue around time but around the basket of things that families are rightly thinking about. So nobody that you interview about money is focused on money because of money. It's never about that. It's about what it means for my family this week. Nobody is thinking about spending and saving as the primary thing. Spending and saving is about what it's gonna facilitate in your life. And so I think we are often a layer removed from what people are actually thinking about when we think about money and it makes it more challenging to come up with the right answers for them. And I think it also makes it harder to explain why what we do matters. Not only to them but to others in the world. Like I'm constantly feel like I'm getting the question. Why does stability matter relative to just more income or more wealth? There's sort of even within this field a debate about what is the core need? Well, none of them. The core need is like getting our kids to soccer on Saturday. So I think that the more we can acknowledge that and the more we're gonna find that we need to have partnerships across like sort of outside of our field. And it becomes more important therefore to spend time with people who are working on education or working on other kinds of family supports or on healthcare or on housing because these issues of financial wellbeing are so interwoven with other issues in people's lives. And sometimes those may be the more pressing issue for somebody or the way into a financial conversation because they're really trying to figure out something financial in order to figure out something in healthcare. So let's go to the audience. It looks like I think we've got mics lined up on either side. And so let me do a time check. How much time do we have for questions? Five minutes. Okay, so let's take two questions at a time and then we'll toss them to the panel. We'll start. Sorry, my name is Gerard Miller. I'm from Neighborhood Housing Services at Bedford-Stuyvesant. And to the last two questions, I'm sorry, last two comments about the psychological barriers toward using these kinds of techniques as a service provider who offers financial literacy, education, and counseling. We are available to teach these skills to help people through these psychological and behavioral changes, but getting them in the door has been the issue. So we offer the VITA program and we partner with Grove Brooklyn and the Financial Clinic to drive that piece but connecting our homeowners and our home buyers and these folks and getting them in the door for financial literacy where I can then explain to them the technological applications that are out there. I can explain to them about the dips and the spikes. How can, let's say, larger partners, larger entities help back agencies like mine to get people in the door so that we can get them to you? We'll hold that question. We'll take one more over here and then we'll turn both over to the panel. Hello, my name is Miranda Tejeda and I work for the Food Bank from New York City and we run a large VITA program here in New York to combine two things with Sarah and Clinton had mentioned about that $500 expense your car. In the city, it's not quite the car's things usually but it's the same dollar amount and we have this survey questions about where would you get this money from? And done this for so many years that when somebody surprised me, it will stick in my brain and one gentleman is that we kind of use it as a training model, can we use, can I question you this to teach other staff how to conduct the survey? So I went through a series of questions of, oh, would you borrow the money from your friend? Would you use a credit card? Stop said, no, no, it does, I said, so where'd you get the $500? I'm giving you a choice, you have to spend it. He says, I wouldn't pay my rent. And I'm like, well, New York City don't pay your rent. He said, no, I know exactly what it would take to, housing court, to this, to that. He created his own mechanism by which to get a loan in a way from the land because that was his emergency situation. And what you were saying about the money, that beginning of the month question, the reason the food bank is involved in Biden is because of the staples of your rent, your con-ed, your transportation. Which of the budget issues usually gets cut? Food. And that's why we're involved in how much of that question that you had asked at the beginning of the month is impacted by SNAP or the lack of it at the end. And maybe, can we take, if we can be quick, one more question, because I think that will get all of our questions and then we can go straight to the panel. My name is Peter Burgess, true value metrics. As regards setting the stage, I crossed the Atlantic 50 years ago to this wonderful country. I earned more in one month in the United States than I could earn in Europe at the time in one year. Now, the reason I bring this up is that today, quality of life in Europe is probably better than it is here. I worry that the subject of today is basically to make living in poverty a little bit better. And I would argue that, and it's not the people in this room we need to talk to, it's the people who are not in this room. The extraction of wealth from ordinary people in this country over the last 50 years has been appalling. There are trillions of dollars that do nothing, yet we've got millions of people who are struggling like crazy. And I'm really, you know, I'm at the point in my life where I'm pretty pissed off about it, and somehow we've got to get the really wealthy leaders of this country to understand where their money has come from, and it's come from the people who work hard but get paid very little. I appreciate everybody in this room, I think it's wonderful. But there's a missing huge element, which is this extraction of wealth from the people of the society. Sorry. I think you'll probably find a lot of empathetic ears in the room and certainly with the congressman who was here earlier. So let me turn to the panel and ask you guys to address what we heard, and I heard a few things. One was circling back to this, the idea of nonprofits as service delivery providers and knowing that we both are needing to increase our sophistication to get to a group of people that really require high-touch services, and they're only gonna be able to get those with our nonprofit partners. We heard a bit about the role that benefits or public benefits are playing and helping to maybe not smooth income, but boost income and some of those are at risk. And so maybe some of you can speak to the role that that's playing in overall household income. And then on this last point, I think Rachel, you alluded to the sort of the conversation even within our field that is constantly goes back and forth of like, oh, we should focus on income or oh, we should focus on savings when in fact a lot of this work as it plays out, I'm sure for those of you who are working on the ground, is that this is all happening all the time. We're trying to address all of them. Many of you also sit at advocacy tables that take a long view and trying to think about long-term advocacy change. So maybe somebody on the panel can also talk about how those things are all coming together. So why don't, I will throw those toppings at you, all of them, and maybe just go down the row and have you opine on what you heard as question and discussion items from the audience and at the same time, share some closing thoughts with the audience. Sure, I'll start, but that was masterful as a summary of how to tackle those questions, which I heard as so disparate, but you really connected, so fantastic. And the way that you then described it really made me think it is a lot about partnerships and about being able to, it sort of goes back to the high tech, high touch model. So when I hear this question from a non-profit, I want to partner you with others in the field who can help with marketing, with advertising, with reach in some ways, right? I think very much of the work that New York City is already doing, but I also think of the work that I saw Avi Kanani earlier today is doing with Alice, where he wants to be able to help people apply for, really to be able to leverage their money better, right? And he's gonna try and work through Vita's sense. And I think we need more of that. And I think that actually goes to this last question as well, because people's financial lives are intertwined. We think about assets versus income versus cash flows. Well, those are three financial statements that are mathematically connected. It's not like I'm gonna be able to raise my income and not have it have a positive impact on my cash flows or my balance sheet. If I'm focused on my balance sheet and I'm trying to save and invest, it's gonna have some impact over on my income, my ability to spend, or my ability to manage my cash. I've always had a hard time with this, like prioritization of income versus wealth building versus ongoing spending because the math means they're all bundled. And so I think the question is really about, is there a way to target our resources such that it will be most effective in the moment on the overall system? And that's why so many of us then come to this conversation on tax time because it seems like tax time is a moment where you might be able to leverage, that you might be able to leverage that moment and have a big impact on the interconnected web of income cash flows and balance sheets. And that's why it's so appealing. But to think you can only try and solve one thing, I just think it's unrealistic. I think that's absolutely right. I'd like to thank all three of the question, gentlemen, for their questions. It's always heartening to hear people who are making differences in the real lives of people, saying that they're seeing stories that are consistent with what we see from 10,000 feet in our data. It makes us feel better and give us more confidence. But the attention issue, how do you get people in the door before they're in crisis is problematic. And it's because people don't have time. They don't have the attention, they don't have the bandwidth to commit to the important hard work of making change in their lives until the reason for doing so is so steep that it's much more difficult to help. And it's a challenge that I think partnerships that outreach, that communication and design can help to approach and opportunities like a tax time moment where we all are legally mandated to think about our finances, whether we want to or not, could be used differently than the way that it's currently used. And seizing advantage of these opportunities to deliver services that so many people, millions of people desperately need is really where the core of this conversation is today. Yeah, I guess I would just close by saying that for us, it's really all about that infrastructure and the sort of community network taking a collective impact approach really within neighborhoods, recognizing that a free tax preparation, Vita site alone isn't gonna solve a problem. The workforce development organization is not gonna solve a problem. The problem of local business is not gonna solve the problem. The resident association is not gonna solve the problem. So how can we collectively come together to find what problem we are trying to solve? And that problem very well may be the lack of ownership low income people's assets with a lack of low income people's ownership within their community or their jobs or their property and come together, put the problem out there with the right data and then work together to solve that. I would circle back around to what Rachel mentioned before about partnerships and how important that is because when I think about tax time is sort of potentially being this magic moment, I think we need to think in a really, human centered design way about what's going on at tax time. So people are coming in, harried about their finances, negotiating about who's gonna claim kids on for tax purposes, the kids might be with them. So how do you deliver all this nugget of life changing knowledge in the midst of all of that? And that's a place where partnerships can be really important, right? Do you have the office set up so that the kids can play so you can talk to the parents? Are you talking to them about how they're dealing with all of the issues with their family members who aren't in the room? So really being aware that it's not just this one individual walking in the room, ready to listen and learn, but thinking about the various partnerships you're gonna need and the various sets of skills that as I'm sure you all know go well beyond the financial realm for talking to people in a real way about their finances. That's great. Well, I hope that we set the stage for even deeper conversation throughout the day, focusing more on what can be accomplished at tax time. I wanna thank my panelists and thank you all again for joining us in this conversation. Thank you.


The most asked product management interview question is what's your favorite product and majority of people don't know how to answer it and most people think oh I have so many different kind of product ideas but whenever they walk into interviews the interviewer never likes their answer. In this video I'll give you a live example regarding how I improve and train someone else okay answer regarding what's your favorite product all the way to make it perfect so that he's able to land a job offer and I want to take lots of notes so that you're able to achieve the same kind of result as well. Let's dive in. Hey guys this is Dr. Nesidi a director of product feature in Forbes that help 100 people land a dream TM job offer in fan companies a unicorn startup and continue to get promoted as a product leader. In this channel we talk about product management and tech trends like and subscribe for free weekly content. It's a very difficult interview question so tell me your answer. And one of the reasons I love Twitter is because I think it's more of me liking the CEO the new CEO also you can easily reach out and fix a lot more about the problem you're having. You touch very sensitive topic you're Canadian you're fine. Okay can you quickly introduce yourself where you're from where you're based are you a product manager right now. Yes okay my name is Isaac and I'm currently located in Canada Ontario Canada I'm a products manager however actively seeking for a new role at the moment so yeah I'm not working for any company at the moment so yeah. Okay great so what type of interview questions you want to mark today. So there's this question I really struggle with and that's pick one product you love the reason why you like it and one thing you can improve about it. Oh! So very good interview questions so tell me your answer. Okay I think from top of my head I would say Twitter and one of the reasons I love Twitter is because of the way it connects people and also the social media effect of it promoting reading and writing I mean it's very text based I mean originally and one thing that will improve about it is one of the recent problem that the CEO recently highlighted which is a lot of people coming to scrape off Twitter data to build their own AI and I think one solution I'll put forward is just to rubbish the situation whereby everybody's one way or the other compelled to do a two-factor authentication such that anyone coming on the system using the APIs using the login into the system to use it for one thing or the other can be tracked and also properly monitored so I think that's just like we are going to put that out there. Can be improved for sure okay it's good the start was very new ideas using AI to create something on Twitter I think it's a good idea but how you lead into the idea is confusing okay regarding what's your favorite product and how would you improve when you feature want to improve it right so why why Twitter is a favorite product wasn't clear at all so give me three reasons why Twitter is favorite product. Okay so number one I love the fact that it promotes writing and reading is text based in a way or like other social media like Instagram that's just busy picture this promotes more like the content providers to write put out things and of course you as a reader to you probably you know read more on Twitter or like I'm just flipping through pictures and videos like some other social media then secondly I also like like the fact that the real-time connection with anybody in the world I mean somebody puts us put something and you can comment and the person sees isn't instantly not necessarily DMing the person and I mean it's very open everyone is seeing the interaction and everyone and anywhere anybody can jump on it that's second thing then the third thing I think is more of me liking the CEO the new CEO also I mean there's this connection here I mean they don't work there's this connection it just has with the users you know something is going on it comes tweets about it everybody jumps on AT there's this real-time feedbacks feedback it gives on the system that the the CEO has created around it that you can easily reach out and tweet a lot more about the problem you're having and one way or the other somebody replies to you from the team or even him sometimes I'm response to you so I mean those are like three things I like about it yeah okay I like the answer this way to improve I'll show you later on okay but you touch very sensitive topic you're Canadian you're fine if anybody anybody in the US okay it's very sensitive topic saying that yeah I know right by the way if you accidentally whatever into a different companies you really need to understand other people's political opinion before you say it on us okay if you're not sure about other people's political opinion you better not to come mention you on us okay so now it's very controversial in the tech space right now okay let's assume you like it let's assume the other the other people also like him or the other people is more Republican the right now US is going to vote Republican Democrat they like to take on the edge of Iran Iran is a Republican so I'm Chinese okay I don't vote but I understand US US politics how much people like to hype on something that's nonsense okay and I mean to be to be to be fair on everyone I'm not so my likeness is not really based on the political side of it it's just more of his interaction as a CEO on the platform you know getting that real time feedback more like it gets involved and also carry people along that's just not nothing political or very I know I know I know but the way you put it sounds like your your Republican they are you okay why you like I think the legit point let's assume you into a Republican is okay we'll keep your points okay it's a legit point but the way you present your points is average people's presentation because everybody out there can say something similar about Twitter except Elon Musk's part but the other two is very legit okay so you pick the right thing about the app but you're just average candidate as we know right so right now average candidate do not land a job right now it's very competitive everyone's layoff you know different people out there so how to stand out from the competition is a create your answer from the lens of managers to show that you're thinking bigger and broader in a in a greater scale so let me break it down for you okay so if if you let's say we still pick the three points you want to say you need to be user pain point driven for example Twitter you put Twitter into three type of customer segmentation you can say for example now people use Twitter the three main type of customer segmentation put three different type of customer persona within the the topic at the beginning so tell me the three type of customer persona using Twitter right now and one of those personas you okay so I would say the content creators content creator very good what's next one number two I would say the content consumers I mean people just some people just come to read on our phone and I read things for fun with the third one then the advertisers okay good great cool true okay so now you can say the following say well right now there are major mainly three key part of users on Twitter there are content creators who create amazing content of course majority attack space second group of customer segmentation is content consumers who want to absorb new information new knowledge maybe just for entertainment purposes the third type of customer segmentation is the advertiser who want to run as and generate more leads to their own product they want to sell so I belong to the second I think your second say so I belong to the second kind of customer segmentation which is the content consumers who want to learn and also more have fun as well so now as a content consumer I have a three key pain points pain point number one I'm very tired of those picture driven like content people consume on tiktok and Instagram they're mainly for entertainment purpose but take them really long time to tell us the useful valuable information by looking at beautiful picture or 30 seconds videos and at the end of the day it's just wasting time on those platforms so but Twitter address my pain point very well in Twitter there's no bluff 150 characters say what you want to say and read your text very quickly and then you can consume more information and also follow and like the information that you really love and that really benefit yourself so this is more pain point driven not just I like it I just I just like a tax now I like tax because I have a pain point people look great on Instagram people look funny on tiktok but their content is mainly killing your time which I do believe so to kill your time you do like so soft bikini picture to kill your time but doesn't really lead you to anything okay so now Twitter they give you a tax base you consume content much faster you like something you're you're energized by some new ideas okay so now second pain point which is talking about it's very fast real-time right so the second pain point I had at the content consumer is the speed of getting access to information we are living in the digital world there's so much going on in the world a different kind of news and also friends and family also new sought in this new space so frequently we're overwhelmed a majority of the social media platform right now that they made me very curious about some old information maybe one week or one day old what I really want is I need the real-time information that can consume right away so that I can meet my own unique needs as a content consumer so on Twitter which addresses pain point extremely well anybody can just treat something right away you see anything trending and people can say something short just share some quick topic you can get access information instantaneously right away the third pain point I had is I please don't get killed you know into it but just like just tell you sounds like you like it on us okay the third pain point I had is as average people who barely get access to celebrities or CEO or famous companies and have a conversation with them but the Twitter CEO Elon Musk he make it very open anyone can treat about him come on on his post he also bring in different kind of demographic like political parties or different people maybe controversial but you can have very great conversation with these kind of people so that you don't feel distance from them at all using Twitter as a platform and you must talk about what your needs is you're right so as someone who is nobody like average people like all of our way on nobody to reflect so as as people which is average for nobody it's extremely difficult for me to access someone who's big celebrity thought leaders but Twitter open up the gate for me to access other people so now you put you is pain point driven why driven and then why Twitter saw your pain point so well make it stronger ceases compared with everyone else saying I like Twitter I like Elon Musk everyone can say it American freedom of speech you know it's like freedom of speech to say something no I'm very strategic I'm thinking long-term thinking about customer persona and customer pain point and then how it's matching my pain point that's why I become my favorite app okay so now when you talk about your specific regarding what kind of new feature you want to integrate on Twitter I think that's no problem your features really good you AI Bob with Twitter because they have so much information right again it should be pain point based you can say the following I made up stuff okay at the content consumer right now one of the big pain point that Twitter hasn't addressed it's so much information it's good to have lots of information lots of good real-time short messages it's not good that's too much so therefore if I am the product manager here I'm going to create a new feature which is integrate AI chatbot to curate all the real-time blind short pieces of content and create new curated like information fitted customized to me that you want to say so must be reasoning a front and then tell them why you build it because they only can have ideas building stuff people are really smart nowadays they all create like amazing ideas but I do like your ideas but why first and talk about ideas make sense yeah perfectly awesome thank you so much that was really helpful the next step for you to improve your answer to watch your favorite product is to see my perfect sample answer of what's my favorite product so that you can see how exactly would say at this perfect sample answer in this video where I break down the three key elements how would I talk about what's my favorite product and how to improve it like and subscribe for more free training this is Dr. Nia Sidi from PMXCenter.io I'm gonna see you in my next video right here


The one mistake most employees make and regret later. When I was growing up, my views about life was, leave the exact way you want to leave or don't leave. Do the exact job you love to do or do nothing. Be who you want to be or don't leave. Because life is one and short, I think it's not worth leaving it and doing what you hate. According to the Gallup poll, 85% of employees worldwide hate their jobs. This is a terrible situation because our work is the single most important thing in our life. That's where we spend 40 hours each week.  Yet, instead of people to fight for a better life, most employees make the one mistake I'll discuss with you in this video. If you're new here, consider subscribing so you won't miss other interesting videos like this. Now here's the thing, what most employees look for in their jobs isn't fulfillment but a bigger paycheck. Somehow, these people believe that if they can have some raise, their life will be better. What I think people should look for isn't a raise but resignation. The biggest mistake you can make as an employee is to wish for a raise in a job you don't like. Let me explain this, you have a single short life to live and to live that life very well. You need two non-negotiable things, money and fulfillment. You don't only have to get paid well for your job, your job shouldn't be a job in the first place. Playing for a living In the days of our ancestors, when humans were hunters and gatherers, our fathers did a great job of combining the play, the learning and the working into a single, pleasant, hard to differentiate activity. In their time, you learn by playing and you work by play. In the real sense of it, they had no job. You shouldn't have a job too. Monday should be your best day. You should hate Sundays because no work is done on Sunday. You should hiss on Friday because it marks the end of working days. Your Monday to Friday should be the best days of your life if truly you have a life that's worth living. Now how can you achieve this? You can only achieve this by doing what you truly love, what actually looks like play to you. Life without hobbies At the time of making this video, I'm in my mid 30 and I've lived almost all my adult life without any significant hobby. Not much play gives me joy like work. The only thing that makes me high is doing what I'm doing. Even though I don't have any master or employer who tells me when and how to work, I sometimes resume to my office by 3 in the morning because I don't have a job. I'm simply playing for a living. The biggest mistake you can make as an employee is to wish for a bigger paycheck in a job you don't like. Your life is one and short. Don't leave it working. Leave your life playing. Now you may ask me, so how can I do this? How can I play for a living?  Who are you? What are your strengths and weaknesses? What do you have which others don't? What do you lack which others have?  Anyone who wishes to operate a machine must first know what the machine is.  Resurrect yourself After knowing who you are, then you need to resurrect yourself. You see, most of us are dead, dead to the crowd. Right from the childhood, everyone around us has been influencing the way we think. What is right and what the society thinks is the best jobs. These best jobs are often judged by how much they pay you. In my country, everyone agrees that working for a bank is a great job and every parent prays and influences their children to work in a bank as a doctor, a lawyer or even as an engineer. The problem about that is, though some of these industries may pay well, not everyone can be fulfilled working in a bank or a doctor or even a lawyer. Because our society has often brainwashed and castrated us into believing the high paying jobs are the best jobs, we are usually dead before we are 25. We are dead because we've lost our first love. We are dead because we've lost our originality.  The way to live is the way of resurrection and that means you must start thinking for yourself. You have to start looking inwards to discover what it is you actually love to do with your life. After you've discovered this, half of the battle is won. Then decide to think by yourself. Decide to pursue a career you truly love, not what your parents or society wants you to pursue. Look Back at Your Childhood If you ask me, how can I know what I love to do? My answer may be, look at your childhood. Usually before the world succeeded at killing us, we tend to show the signs of independence and individuality. We tend to talk about what we want and how much we love such a thing.  What you loved and dreamed of doing as a teen may be the answer to your true passion. In my own case, as a boy of 14, I would leave my parents home on the weekend, sit in a lonely place and start writing. It was my food. I loved joining words together. Writing was never work for me. Today, I make more money from my writing skill than from any other thing. So look back at your life and see what you love doing as a teen. Maybe that's what you ought to be doing now. The Head That Wears The Crown Now after you've discovered what exactly you love to do with your life, do not make another mistake by thinking that it ought to be easy.  Let me give you some examples here. My parents wanted me to have all the degrees most people have. They then wanted me to work as an accountant. That's pretty straightforward, right? Being an accountant already has a tested route. Pretty very hard in school, have two or three degrees and get a job in a big company. That's a straight road. All you have to do is to follow the road judiciously. But that wasn't what I wanted to do. Instead, I wanted to be an entrepreneur and a writer. How do you become a successful entrepreneur? How do you become a writer? Nobody knows because there's no predictable path into those two worlds. You can do all you know how to do and still fail as an entrepreneur. Nobody promises you that you'll get finance for your business. Nobody promises you that the market will accept your product. Nobody promises you that your books will be popular. Nobody promises you anything so you have to figure them out one after the other. It was a tough journey. It took me eight years of hard hustle before I had my first breakthrough. So don't ever think that following your dreams will be easy. One thing I can guarantee you is that after you achieve your dream, you'll no longer live in the realm of men. You'll be in heaven.  You'll wake up to play while everyone else wakes up to work. Here are my final words.   After figuring out these things, you must be willing to pay the price to get from where you are to where you want to be. You may start your side hustle while you have the job you hate. This may take time before you see any significant result but if you stay stubborn, you'll win big. Thank you so much for watching our videos. Are you between the ages of 15 and 40? Again, we invite you to join our new channel which was specially created to share with you inspiration and life's lessons to succeed in life. We call it Under 40 TV. Kindly look at the description box to join the Under 40 TV. We love you.


Networks in augmented reality. The other day I was once again playing with network visualization on my Quest 2. The way it normally works is that you click the VR button and you agree with a view like this, which I've shown before. However, suddenly I found that there was a second button, labeled AR. When I clicked that I was greeted with this view. I was suddenly seeing the living room around me rather than being stuck inside a purely virtual world, but still also seeing the network. I've done nothing to make this happen, so I assume it must be a software update from Meta, probably because of the release of the Quest Pro, which is designed to do both VR and AR. But it would appear that it works on the Quest 2 as well.


All right, the great search is brought to you by digikey. Thank you digikey and Adafruit Lady to use their skills of an engineer to navigate the digikey site to find the things that you're looking for more so and ever that's the most important thing because Planet Earth ran out of parts. I know we have a lot of sand, but we don't have any Yeah, so what's the great search this week? Okay this week's great search So one of the nice things about the great search is what I do is during the week when I'm struggling with finding a part because every week there's a part that I can't get and You know me and the purchasing team we use our wits to Find alternative parts, which is it is an engineering skill You're speccing the parts one thing but then being able to find alternative spec parts is important also It's really easy to get the exact same component every time But eventually that component is not available and that's happening a lot So let's talk today about one of the most jelly bean components. We use which is the BSS Dual can you say what jelly bean is for those folks who aren't in this industry jelly jelly bean? I don't know where this came from. I picked it up from someone But jelly bean means it's a part that's so common that it's made by multiple places like a 7805 Linear regulator right very very common made by multiple companies. It's well-spec It's not a unique part like I was showing off the IS the 31 FL 3741 That's a very specific chip If anyone knows why it's called jelly bean put in the chat because this week coming up LeVar Burton's hoping hosting Jeopardy and I know this is gonna be a Electronic component history. Yeah, but if you know why it's called jelly bean are the origins of it No googling allowed because I can Google later, but um that I've heard this to yeah And I've heard bunny say it to me like I don't know I heard it from bunny like 15 years ago, so I have a feeling this is an older industry term But anyways, yeah, it'll probably be the final jelly beans basically it's the things that you sprinkle that are not You know, there's there's the Wi-Fi chip the Bluetooth chip this press of chip This is like, you know, there's only one place to get it and then there's there's jelly beans Okay, so the jelly bean part we're talking about today is the dual BSS 138 and channel MOSFET so this part as shown here we use Tens and tens of thousands like a hundred thousand a year easily because they go on to every one of our breakout as level shifters We use them to level shift I squirt see, you know pull-ups on either side Why do we do a level shifting I squirt see because? When we sell sensors a lot of sensors like 99 999 percent of sensors and devices are 3.3 volt logic and power Although, you know, we do have a couple 1.8 volt ones as well Which is important. We'll actually talk about that and I want to make sure that people can plug in their boards into an Arduino Uno or Mega or a zero or you know an ESP32 you don't know if it's gonna be five or three volts on the other side And we want to shift the I squirt see logic and nothing beats the simplicity and price of This to end channel FETs for pull-up resistors and your golden in fact, this is NXP in their kind of famous I squirt see level shifting techniques and bussines. It's like a tome a famous work You know, they show this off and they they talk about it And then the shows, you know, this is this is basically what's going on You have I squirt and either side and this does a great job and this is a rock rock rock solid design I mean I've used this hundreds of I have some breaking news Jelly bean dates from the early days of Intel and Fairchild so me conductor referring to common chips Gordon Moore may have coined the term jelly beans You know, if it's not true, you've you've totally tricked me Well, if we're gonna start misinformation Let's just start with this is a bed. This is way better than most right Okay, so So that you know, I the beats this 138 I've really liked it and I've used for it's kind of famous people use it a Lot and I like the dual Fet because you know, you need to so why not just have it in two. So this is the This is the piece it's a sought 363 it's small. It's easy to pick in place. It's you can hand solder it It's it does the job. It's great except when you cannot get any so I was on I did you key Earlier this week because we you know, we're like, okay, we need more BSS 138 Duals and so just show, you know, when you go to You know, they have some exact matches, but we want the array because we want the dual and Then if you look zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero all out of stock and and like I have never seen this in my life There's always like a million of these on stock because again, they're so jelly bean. They're used everywhere Time to freak out and give up now time to use our great searching power to find an alternative and Note that this is a jelly bean beat the BSS you see it's made by MCC and diodes and next period This is the one situation where not only is that I tend to buy the next period part But all the alternative sources for the jelly bean are also out, right? So it's not like I'll just find it from another maker. We actually have to find something that has a different part number with the same functionality so let's You know, I like to use the Product attributes as a way to pick out which ones to get so let's go with active dual and channel I'm not gonna necessarily pick the logic level gate the drain to source voltage actually it's 60 Don't need that much right obviously. We're not dealing with more than a couple volts I don't want to be specific about the RDS on under current drain because again It's it's a little flexible with that But I am really picky that I want to be surface mount and I want it to be a sought 363 because that I needed to be drop in replacement So let's view similar and You got about a hundred and eighteen options since I really need to you know I need to have this and suck. I'm just gonna pick in stock immediately to pair down the options So the next question is like what of all of these things are important Well RDS on is something that you care about when you're dealing with a power transistor We have a lot of current passing through because the RDS on determines the voltage drop across the The drain and source in this case. It's logic level shifting. So I don't you know I wish I could actually hide You know this and say like I don't even want to look at this option I don't care about that also current. There's almost no current passing through here. This is a logic level This is you know milliamp. Maybe when the it gets pulled down almost nothing So You know power max the temperature a lot of these things actually not important But there is one thing that is important which is the VGS Why? because when you look at here this voltage Especially for the low voltage you should be able to turn this on and off Based on the lowest voltage that you will encounter on the bus So if you're doing 3 volt to 5 volt you just have to make sure that the VGS is You know greater than 3 volts because you just want to be turned on and off I like that a little bit lower than just on the edge even though it's the max in case you're you know Your power supply droops and it's not exactly 3.3 and it's 3 so you want it to have a little bit lower So maybe 2.6 volts However, we use these transistors also to logic level shift 1.8 volts like the SGP 30 Gas sensor a couple other sensors. We use our 1.8 volt. We have 2.6 volt logic There's a couple not a lot but enough that I want to make sure that I don't mess things up for them because Believe me. I have accidentally placed a two-end 7,002 Dual-fet and it will did not work on low voltage Level shift. I think it was at 7,002. I don't know the exact number But basically it didn't have a low enough VGS it did turn on voltage was too high. It didn't turn on and off So what do you want to do is make sure it doesn't you know the the bss 138 Did you key? I don't know. Yeah, look up the part number You know we go to the point when we show stuff on Desk of lady to we make sure we purchase it before we talk about it Yeah, I already buy but you'll see like why are you showing this off? There's only 5,000 stuff yet because I already bought like we're we learn we learned our lesson my lesson mistakes were made Lessons were learned. That's it. It's a new segment. So we're not doing it this week because it's a box But um the new segment is called mistakes for made lessons are learned So this will help all of you out there thinking you need to be perfect. You don't just be honest Okay, so this this what I'd like to bet the bss 138 is it has this VGS you see here 1.6 volts You don't have to be exactly 1.6, but you want it you want it less than 1.8 And a little bit less than 1.8 and you'll notice that actually there's nothing here. That's exactly 1.6 That's why you don't want to be I didn't click that off because it's like it just can't be larger than 1.6 So let's let's select everything less than that and You know, I don't really care about the VDS or anything here and nothing else here is that important to be honest Um, and then when you go down here, we actually have a couple options again, you know, but these are all in stock You'll know that None of them have hundreds of thousands in stock because I kind of purchased a bunch of them But they all have the same package and here's the good news All these have the same pinout the dual-fet pinout is a standard pinout like they they are symmetric and equivalent So yes, I'll check the datasheet, but you can in this case just trust me already looked it up So what I did was, you know, I only really care about price in this case because you know the specifications are that important And so actually found the alternative which was an NX 138, which is actually I like the look of that Right VSS 130 ends in the NX 138. This is kind of a good feeling about it It matches the specs, but I also like it when they reuse the part numbers It's a little bit of a hint kind of telling you like this is going to be Similar as a drop-in replacement. So, um, this is the part. So this is you know, there's there's still some in stock I didn't buy them all Did buy a couple So that we can keep making our breakouts because it's it's you know, I need I really need to have a dual-fet Every single one of our breakouts everyone for stem IQ T points. So they do have a question about it So sir pull-up resistance on the board. I assume I don't need to add them. You know, we put very weak pull-ups 10k, which is good for you know, 100 kilohertz I squared C if you want to run one megahertz I would recommend adding another one, but 10k is a nice balance of You're not gonna hang your I squared C bus a little ground at 100 kilohertz or 400 kilohertz Which is like kind of you know, what most default buses when that but also if you put multiple of them in parallel You know because you plug in I squared C multiple QT boards You can plug, you know up to five of them and then you'll still only have a 2k pull-up You know, it that's what it'll look like to the host which is the standard pull-up size So what I'd like is you can put like five to ten and the host will get overburdened by the pull-up So that 10k I'm like a 10k kind of girl. All right, someone has I think this might be a future Yeah, great search or it's a general question. Yeah, I'm not quite sure it says how did you use piezo piezo electric actuators for? replacement parts for in-body image stabilized cameras. Oh Goodness, those are gonna be really custom I really think what you should do is is try to I would actually go on eBay to be honest and see if you can find Yeah, that's also camera repair. I think that's in the camera repair category Different it's a different thing, but you want to find people who are throwing away Cameras was like broken lenses or broken mainboards, and then you can maybe recycle That the piezo actually about like oh, yeah, that's I feel like there's an industry around this that I don't know about It's it's custom-ating piezo is super custom. All right, so that's the great search. Thanks everybody


Hi everyone, Joe for jaspy's casebreaks.com doing a recap video for 2021 Bowman Baseball Jumbo Edition. Pick your team number five. So we did the break late last night and then we uploaded it but then there was something playing in the background so then it got muted and it didn't upload so we're trying to fix that and trying to get the whole video uploaded but in the meantime we'll do a quick recap for this right here. Great thanks to everyone here for getting into the action. There you go. So here's what we got. Gilbert Sanchez, the Casey Meis was nice. Nice Zach Veen autograph, Jake Vogel, Big Dodger prospect, Marcus Smith, we've got some red right here, Yunus Everino, two out of five was really cool and then we've got all of these right here too. The Fuchsia parallels are really cool, some nice Austin Martins and neon green parallels are cool as well. Nice Aqua, Shimmer, Aysa Lacy, some nice Atomics, Speckles, Atomics, nice Kalaneck and Alcantara right there. So there you go. Thanks everyone and I appreciate everyone's understanding on this. On this pick your team five and keep an eye out for the full video but that's basically it and all card ship and look at all that fun stuff. Thanks for watching. I'm Joe. I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye bye.