We will call the notice of the 15th meeting of the Common Council order That would you call the roll, please? Bowman, Berg, Boonee, Doyle, Groth, Manny, excuse, Montemayor, Moody, Perez, Rinflaish, Stefan, Van Akron, Vanderwill, Wongabon, Warner, Weninger, 14 present, Quarms present. All in the grove. Thank you, Your Honor. I had moved that we dispense with the reading of the minutes of the previous Common Council on the same stand approved as entered on the record. Moved a second to the dispense with the minutes of the previous Council meeting in the same stand approved under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. All in favor? Motion carried. Alderman Wininger, would you lead us in a pledge of allegiance, please? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Your Honor. Due to a string of columns I've been writing in the paper, one of them we wrote about were forgotten memorials around the city. In order the memorials I became most concerned about was a memorial up on Calumet Drive and Gile Avenue, which was to the veterans of World War I or I should say to the dead of World War I. There were quite a few number of young men were lost from Sheboygan County. Since that time the veterans organization has stepped forward. One of our local landscapers has offered to do some additional landscape, would do some plantings around the stone. The city has offered to trim that tree bushes, tree brush brack, and also on November 11th, which is the actual anniversary of the ending of World War I. In fact, it was at 11 o'clock on the 11th day of the 11th month that the war ended and at that moment we're going to have a little bit of a ceremony up there. The veterans will lay a wreath on the grave and I believe Alderman Manny will come and say a few words and you have graciously consented if your schedule permits to also come up and perhaps say a word or two and the veterans will also be there. Some representatives of the veterans will be there. So I'm hoping that anybody who has a moment's time just stop up there because it was a day that's been kind of forgotten. It was usually quite a big day years ago when they had a Memorial Day or we used to call it Armistice Day. So it's just something that I'd like to see done again and honor the men that gave their lives in World War I. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. We have two notices this evening. One is the ordinance that has been introduced for the vacation and discontinuance of unpaved alley between South 17th Street and South 18th Street and between Alabama Avenue and Georgia Avenue. The second we have an ordinance that has been introduced for the vacation and discontinuance of a portion of South 16th Street from the south right away line of Illinois Avenue to a point 150 feet south. Then we have two hearings this evening. The first one is demanding the zoning of property located at 1320 Niagara Avenue and the second one is amend the text of the zoning ordinance to permit exceptions to maximum heist regulations by conditional use or variance procedure. Any interested party wishing to be heard on any one of these two hearings? Any interest with parties wishing to be heard? Please step up to the microphone if you'd like to be heard and give us your name, address. Which hearing also? And what hearing you're speaking on? At the microphone I can't hear you. My name is Desiree Gulseth. I live at 1553. No, you don't speak on this. This is not a hearing. You have a notice. Okay. These hearings are for zoning. Your notices you don't speak on. There's no time to speak unless you speak when the document comes up. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anyone interested to any interest parties wishing to speak on the hearings? It's on the hearings. Alderman Grove. Yeah, I'm moving that the hearings be closed. Moving to the second hearing to be closed on your discussion. Hearing not all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Pat, maybe we should clarify that a little bit between. Hearing's, you may speak at a public hearing, but when it's a notice we're just saying that this ordinance has been introduced. It will be acted on later in the agenda. At that time you can only speak if the floor is opened up to you by an older person. I don't foresee any reason for you to speak since everything is favorable on the document and that's what you're here for. So I would just kind of wait. Okay. Thank you. Resignations, Steve? I have a letter dated October 28th to the mayor from Alderperson Wangeman advising that with reluctance he's resigning his appointment as trustee to the library board effective immediately due to conflict with another committee. And to be accepted and filed. Okay. Public floor, Pat. Okay. Public form, Susan Hunley. Good evening. I'm Susan Hunley, 632 Michigan Avenue. I spoke at the last public forum. I really did not intend to speak again and I promised I won't speak after tonight. But I received numerous phone calls after I did speak and I thought it would help to just clarify some of the points that I brought up. I spoke about the room tax issue. And a lot of people called me and they wanted to know actually what room tax is and collecting it I just assumed everybody knew. Room tax is collected by anybody that has lodging in the city of Sheboygan. We collected from our guests and we turned it over quarterly to the city and it's a state mandated legislation mandated by the state of municipalities choose to do this. So there are certain laws that the city does have to follow if they collect the room tax and we now are at 8%. So we charge I guess 5% state and 8% city room tax. The tax is intended to promote and develop tourism. It does not go back to us. We do not use this strictly as our only means of revenue for advertising our businesses. Most of us advertise I know for my business somewhere in the 10 to 12% of our budget goes for advertising. Some people asked why I cared about the room tax issue. I've taken the steps that I have. A lot has been brought up lately about ethics at this public forum. I just feel we are collecting this money from our guests and it's not going for its intended use. Many people asked why we didn't consider some of the negotiated terms from the city. Well, there really hasn't been anything negotiated. We did have a chance at our June 2nd Common Council meeting when it was proposed that a room tax commission be formed. At that time, Tricia Pugall who is the chairperson of the WIA Wisconsin Innkeeper Association supported this commission. She drove from Milwaukee and spoke on our behalf. At that time, it was not approved. We did file a notice of claim and that gave the city time to contact us. And many people asked what's the next step? Well, Renee Sush and I are the two that were on the notice claim. We were not contacted during that time. We weren't contacted at the meeting when it was discussed to turn down our notice of claim. The next step is the lawsuit. We have gone to numerous meetings since before. There was over 20 meetings before we filed the notice of claim. We have continued to go to meetings after. And we would like a resolution besides going into a lawsuit situation. Unfortunately at this time, that's the only thing we have available to us. The legal fees many people were concerned about that I mentioned would not be incurred by the city as I mentioned last time. We do have a city attorney that would represent the city in the lawsuit. Our attorney fees we would ask to be reimbursed for after we win the lawsuit. Many people asked me what that figure would be. This could go as far as the state supreme court. We pay our attorney on a per hour basis. The only reason we did not hire a local attorney and we hired a Milwaukee attorney is because he is the law, the room tax expert in the state of Wisconsin. And his fee is a little bit higher than a local attorney, but we felt that we needed the advice of somebody who was an expert. Thank you. Dulcey Johnson. Mayor Shram, members of the council. On September 15th, I spoke at the public forum about concerns regarding the city's contract for the blue harbor resort and condominiums. On October 6th, another Sheboygan citizen spoke at the public forum and accused me of making wild legal interpretations and unfounded interpretations of this contract. The inference was that since the contract was crafted by Qualls and Brady it was sacrosanct and that unless I had passed the Wisconsin state bar I was not qualified to understand it. I did not question the credibility of Qualls and Brady or the legality of the contract, but I did question some of the provisions of the contract vis-a-vis the best interests of the taxpayers. No, I have not passed the Wisconsin state bar, but I learned to read at the age of six and I think I understand the English language very well. I even know the meaning of a few big words like defamation. It was only after reading all 125 pages of the contract signed July 30th that I decided to speak about some of my concerns. In the last several days I have consulted with two graduates of the University of Wisconsin Madison Law School who are members of the Wisconsin state bar, one of whom specializes in development contract law in Minneapolis and they have both corroborated my statements. I addressed the issue of rent the blue harbor will pay the city for the convention center and restaurant and quoted verbatim from the contract. As rent under the convention center operating lease Great Lakes will guarantee that the room taxes generated by the hotel and condos will equal or exceed the room tax payments. This is found in paragraph seven, hardly a wild legal interpretation or unfounded interpretation. Secondly, I spoke about the $200,000 that is being taken from the 8.2 million that the city is borrowing to build equip and furnish the convention center and restaurant. The creation of this fund was confirmed by Alderman Warner when he spoke at the public forum on October 6th and characterized it as a rainy day fund. The $200,000 will be deposited in the condominium completion escrow and per paragraph 40 the city will be permitted to deposit the condo completion escrow into the condo completion escrow account. And the disbursement of this account is set forth in items E and G of paragraph 40 and states in part that the funds will be credited against the guaranteed property tax payments and or the guaranteed room tax payments to the extent that the real estate and personal property taxes and room taxes are not sufficient to make the guaranteed property tax payments or the guaranteed room tax payments. This again is verbatim from the contract. Therefore, as I stated, the taxpayers could ostensibly be paying the property and room taxes for Great Lakes. Finally, I spoke about a page of financial information presented at the May 12th committee of the whole meeting which contained figures for guaranteed room tax payments, debt service for the convention center parking lot and the difference which amounts to close to $10 million over the term of the contract. That page of information is not part of the contract and when the information was requested under the Freedom of Information Act, it was not available to the public. This was very alarming. In May and June, I and others had asked several aldermen what that $10 million was going to be used for. No one could answer. Rumor had it it was going to be given back to Great Lakes. After the September 15th meeting, I asked Alderman Graf about it. He didn't have an answer, but finance director Gebhardt was nearby and explained that it will be up to the council to determine the disposition of the $10 million accumulated over the term of the contract. Of course, we hope the Blue Harbor Project will be a success. After all, there are millions of tax dollars invested in it and it would be nice if all you had to listen to from this microphone were positive thoughts and rhetorical fluff. But that is not the reality of the mood of many of the citizens of this community now. And while optimism has a lot going for it, sometimes we also need a measure of realism. You need to understand the anger and the frustration that many of the people of this community feel because of the debt that has been incurred in our name and hope may not rule the day. Finally, I also know a little bit about President Harry S. Truman. He was a man who, as leader of this country, accepted responsibility for his decisions and is well remembered for that little sign on his desk, the buck stops here. As always, thank you for your time. Renee Susha? Renee Susha, 303 St. Clair Avenue. I've been attending these council meetings regularly for over a year. I started attending because of what the city is doing with the room tax. What amazes me is how much I've learned while I've been attending these meetings. One thing is for sure, the city has a lot of room for improvement. I've been accused of pointing out issues and not offering solutions. Here is my first solution. I would like you to look hard in the budget and find $5 to please buy the city clerk a stopwatch. If you review the tapes of this meeting, you will find that when you get up to this microphone, you're supposed to have five minutes to speak. If she doesn't like what you're saying, you're cut off at about four and a half minutes. Excuse me, excuse me.  I'm watching the clock of your head. Do not accuse me of cutting you short. I've watched the videos over and over and I can document it and prove that you have left some people go upwards of six minutes and others of us are cut off at four and a half. If anyone, I'd be happy to share the tapes. I'll type you a report and send it to all of you. This is not an arguing session. Keep, please continue. Let's move forward. Thank you. The other thing I wanted to touch on is that there is a document that you can get through the finance director's office. It's an official statement and I would recommend that all the aldermen take a moment to look at this if you haven't already done so. This is an excellent resource and it gives you a nice snapshot of the status of the city. One of the things that I do want to clarify though is when you look at the city's rating you'll see that standards and poor rating for the city is a double A minus. If we were to go any lower than the double A minus we would fall out of the double A category. The best standing in a double A category I believe is a double A plus or a solid double A but we're at a double A minus and I think you're going to have to watch it a little bit. One of the things that really caught my eye in this booklet and perhaps the finance folks could speak to this more clearly later in tonight's session is if you look at the unfunded retirement liability you'll find that we owe ten and a half million dollars. That's a little bit high. Unfunded retirement liability, ten and a half million dollars. This is on our long term debt sheet so you might want to take a look at that and see what you can do to get that debt down a little bit. One of the suggestions that I would have is taking a look at some of the outstanding fines and unpaid parking tickets. Right now there's over $200,000 in outstanding parking tickets. During the time frame that these became outstanding over two and a half million dollars of parking tickets were issued. So one suggestion I would have is perhaps you could repeal the stormwater fee and implement a true user fee by implementing 24 hour a day parking meters that would be monitored seven days a week. If you've ever gone down Eighth Street on a night when the theater's on you'll find that there's hardly any parking spots left. And if you were implementing the parking it's a true user fee because if you don't want to pay 25 cents for the meter you could park three blocks away and walk. Whereas a stormwater fee you have to pay it. You don't have a choice. So this would be a true user fee. Lastly I just want to touch on the Quarles and Brady fee. Since Quarles and Brady did not have a signed contract with the city my question to the alderman is how do you know they were looking out for the city's best interest with the Blue Harbor contract. And without having a signed retention letter or any type of signed contract I think that gives the city bargaining power over the rates that you were charged. I believe Quarles and Brady's charge upwards of $350 an hour and without a signed contract I would think you could get that down to maybe $200 an hour. Thank you. Okay. I should tell her she's got some time left. Henry Capitello. Renee. Pat just made a thing. You still have time if you still want to go on.  My name is Henry Capitello. And I'm here to speak regarding the item and that's on your agenda. Which is Home Inc. had been looking to secure a property at John Court. And what was surprising to me was that apparently there was a recommendation that this, our request would be rejected. I was not notified. Nobody contacted me. And then I find out that it was denied. I did contact a couple of the older persons to raise my concern. The concern that I have is that from the last meeting that I was here there was a, well what I would say was a threat. Which basically said that the council should look at some of the funding that's provided to Home Inc. And I think that was uncalled for. I think that a lot of people spoke at that time on a number of occasions. The only person that was in any way threatened was myself. And I'm wondering why is that? What's the difference between myself and all the other people that came here and voiced their concerns? The only thing that I can see is that to be honest with you is I'm Hispanic. There is no difference. That's it. And if that is, I'm going to tell you now that is not right. That is not right at all. And the tactics of intimidation and basically trying to impose this on us is uncalled for. I feel that I will raise concerns about it. I didn't know that once you accepted a grant from the city that you automatically gave up your civil rights. I thought it was under the First Amendment you could come and you could speak your mind at a city council meeting and not have to worry about any repercussions of what might happen. Threats of possibly losing money from an organization that you work for.  And when I come here, I basically speak of concerns regarding the city, regarding some of the taxes, some of the fees that are being imposed. The reason that I did come through all the public meetings that were held and also here was to speak on the stormwater sewer fee. That was the concern that I had. And again, I'll say I will continue to speak up. I believe that I have that right. I believe in God and I know that God will hold people accountable. And not here. You may not feel that you're accountable to the taxpayer or to the citizens of Sheboygan, but there is one person that is accountable. That's God, my Lord Jesus Christ and Savior. And I'll tell you, I will continue to come here and voice my concerns. Very good. What meeting weren't you, Henry? What meeting weren't you notified for? It was the finance committee. I think it was the finance committee that reviewed this request. And we'll be taking that document up later. It's in the consent agenda number nine. You can talk now. Just to answer, Mr. Capitel, there was a little bit of a mix up. One department thought they were going to notify Mr. Capitel and another department thought they were supposed to win. No one did. So it's going to be referred back to committing tonight as soon as we get to the consent agenda. But one other thing I wanted to mention regarding Ms. Handling and her suggestions and so forth. Right now, regarding the room tax, we contract with the Chamber of Commerce. Ms. Handling is a member of the Chamber of Commerce for her bed and breakfast or her lodging facility. And we contract with them and we have, I believe, three years left of a five-year contract with them. And that's how we determine how the room tax should be distributed and justified that way. D. Olson. It's just easier for me to step around this way. I hope you don't mind in the back. D. Olson, Executive Director for the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce. And on a positive note, we're, from the Chamber's perspective, we're pretty pleased with the way our community is moving forward. Our Chamber Board is excited about the upcoming year. I was conversing earlier with some of our big district board members. And they're very pleased with the way the community is going as well. 2003 has had many positive influences as well. Not, this is not a perfect world, but there are many positives going on in this community. You know, it's really tough to be faced with looking at the PGA coming next year, the Men's Bowling Tournament. I would hate for a lot of those people to pick up some of our media and get the impression that this is a community in distress. And with lots of arguing going on, because boy, it sure looks that way these days. A lot of negativism and negativism breeds more negativism. So keep that in mind as we move forward into 2004. I do think that there should always be a forum for people to share their thoughts. But how that's done should be on a very professional basis. At recent Chamber meetings, we spoke of the efforts of the Common Council and the members of the City Administration and the Mayor, and your efforts to try and hold property taxes and hold the minimum for a tax levy of a 1% increase. We think that's very commendable in very tough taxation times. Communities across Wisconsin are struggling with their taxation issues, and the Chamber commends the City Council for its leadership in this area. Many communities are not seeing the type of growth and construction that we are seeing here in the Schwoigen area. The benefits is to everyone because it increases the equalized valuation and allows all taxpayers to benefit from the growth. Projects like Acuity and Blue Harbor, what's happening in the South Pier area in the downtown, are extremely important to business retention and growth for our community. Denny Moyer is at a Tourism Conference tonight, so he could not be here to share with you the developments of his quarterly report that he puts together. It's a third quarter report. A full report will be provided to you at some time in the very near future. The third quarter over last year is up 31.8%. The most inquiries we've ever had posted in a year. That's a full year. Previous high total in 2001 was the year that we had the previous high total. At that time we had 22,038 inquiries. This year, third quarter only up through the first three quarters is 32,456. That's more than 10,400 from any of our best years. Two primary areas for that. Our readership is up in many of the ads that we're placing because of the increased room tax and our ability to do a good job of marketing. And our trade shows and tourism shows, our sports shows and things that we go to are up 139%. Booking inquiries are up enormously. The men's bowling tournament, Denny reported that over a thousand rooms have been booked already for that and the bookings aren't done yet. That will run from January through May of 2004. Blue Harbor is attracting a lot of inquiry. They are booking a lot of activities and conferences and weddings and things of that nature already. So the inquiry component of that is already taking place within our office. The PGA of course is drawing a lot of inquiry as well. We've also been able to receive a couple of gem grants this year that have created some additional marketing opportunities for us as a county and an area. And those are generating inquiries as well. We're working on the 2004 marketing plan at this time and doing so very aggressively so that we can continue to grow the tourism component of our overall economic picture. I'd like to publicly thank Denny Moyer and the members of this common council for their support and providing us the funding mechanism to make that happen for our community. I also wanted to make mention that we are on the threshold of our last big sesquicentennial event. It's called Home for the Holidays. Kim Leipam is the committee chair for that particular event. My co-chair for the overall sesquicentennial is here as well, Alan Rudnick, tonight. We have Saturday the 29th, November 29th, a lot of activities going on including a children's shop at above and beyond. Songs and stories with Stuart Stotz at the Mead Public Library. That starts at 2. The John Michael Kohler Art Center will have a number of exhibits tied to the sesquicentennial and at 7.30 p.m. Sudero will have a school of dance performance for the Nutcracker at the Wild Center. Sunday, again, many of those items repeating and then there will be a sculpting contest at Fountain Park, as well as the JC's Holiday Parade downtown with enhancements because of the sesquicentennial tied with the tree lighting. I had to call your time. Thank you, Dean. That's it? A couple of things I just want to touch base on listening to the remarks out there. The overall cost management of Blue Harbor remains solid as the project is currently around a half a million dollars under budget. Correct me if I'm wrong, Tom, running somewhere around there. Tiff 6, debt issuance will cover to guarantee tax payments and development agreement by Great Lakes and I hear out there that the taxpayer could be footing this bill. Currently there are 147 jobs created out there in construction and around 7 to 10 local firms already got the jobs out there. So the jobs are stayed in our community. The city does continue to maintain its AA bond rating even with Blue Harbor going up. Despite our recent costal runs of legal fees, the project remains under budget. It has become practice on a local radio talk show to compare our project's performance to the packers. Yes, even though the project is $500,000 under budget, the legal service expenditure is disheartening. However, just because Brett Favre has one bad game, it doesn't mean he won't get into the hall of fame someday. Taxation, the current 2004 budget sent to this council included, it included a 0% increase, not 1%, 0% increase in property tax rate and includes $2.2 million in spending cuts. We have led the way others are following. According to Wisconsin Taxpayer Alliance, and I do have the information here, Wisconsin Taxpayers Alliance, make copies for anyone. You can get it on a computer, otherwise I'll make copies for anyone who wants to see it. The city of Sheboygan ranks 190 first out of 220 municipalities and that survey was since 1992. According to the same survey, the same 10 years the city ranks behind Howard's Grove, Sheboygan falls, Plymouth and Usberg for tax rate increases. Tax increases average 4.6% while property values rose 9.4%. Sighted on August 3rd, 2003 Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Sheboygan ranked fifth lowest in southeast Wisconsin since the 1997 in the tax rate increases. And of course expansion magazine cited us for a five star community for business relocation. The other thing was mentioned on a TIFS and we got to watch our debt, we already watched our debt and we've been very conservative and very responsible in this city. Total debt equalizes about 2.9% per 7% of the valuation. TIFT district debt equalizes about 1.5% valuation. TIFT districts have been recognized by leaders in Madison of both political parties as effective tools for local development, development and increases tax bases and most importantly creates jobs in your community. There are currently 11 active TIFTs in the city of Sheboygan, correct Rich? I believe that's what we have right now, 11. 9 out of 11 have positive balances are doing well. The overall TIFT payback right now to the city is around $47,000. That's a positive for the taxpayers. Since 1997 in just six years there has been an investment in our community totaling more than $500 million, $500 million in six years. In the previous 12 years there were 750 million and from 73 to 85 there were 300 million. All new TIFT districts and this is very important because we have not had any guarantees. All new TIFT districts since 1997 which includes the Blue Harbor has agreements with the developer that if developer does not generate the tax dollars to cover TIFT expenditures the developer will pay a portion of that difference. While all this growth occurs the city still again maintains its AA bond rate. Thank you for listening to me. I also have another letter I should have read before and I missed it and I want to its DPW record DPW record DPW department from Kathleen Bender at 1423 Broadway Avenue. And I'm always proud to read a letter that cites one of our city employees. I'm writing about a city employee Ryan Sazma. I don't know as a media supervisor so I'm asking you to pass this along through the proper channels. I live in a midst of the Broadway Avenue construction project and to say that I have been a bit inconvenience would be a major understatement. Ryan has been a lifesaver. He has gone beyond what I am sure is his duty. He has been most helpful answering any questions and concerns and many issues and certainly goes the extra mile. Very nice letter Tom congratulate Ryan on that please. Alderman Mooney. Thank you. Kathy Bender is my neighbor and I think of all the construction that's going on she's probably feeling the biggest impact. She's had quite a bit of her yard not removed but she has I think a five foot retaining wall in front of her house now that she didn't have before she was pretty much on the level. And I agree that Ryan has been very very helpful. I've talked to him probably three four times every week for the last couple of weeks and every time I have a question every time I have a concern he gets back to me and I would just like to compliment him and Tom too. Thank you. It's good to hear. Thank you. Okay. With that consent agenda Alderman Gough. Your Honor I'd like to pull a document forward. Number 1536. Okay. Alderman Gough. At this time I'd move that 1536 the resolution that it be put upon its passage. Move to saying that resolution 1536 be put upon its passage under discussion. Under discussion your Honor. This is the document that allows us to issue and provide for the sale of 12 million 40,000 taxable bond anticipation notes which now has been changed to 12 million 20,000. And I'm going to ask to have the floor open to Carol Worth from our auditing bond firm of Griffith Kubic to speak on this. Okay. Before we do that Alderman Monty, Mayor, you have a question or? No, no. Mine is about consent agenda. I'll come back. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Super. So I would move that the floor be open to Carol Worth. Move to second that floor be open to Carol under discussion. Hearing none. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Please step up. Good evening. Good evening. Okay. Nice to be back with you again. I have prepared a memo that contains the information about what we're doing tonight. And I just want to briefly cover some points in here so that you feel comfortable when you take action on the resolution. And what we're doing here is 12 million 20,000 taxable bond anticipation notes. They're different than the previous bond anticipation notes we did this year because they are taxable. We typically issue tax exempt. One of the reasons they are taxable is because we are providing funding for two purposes here, the convention center project and for what we will call the resort project. And both of those projects, the debt service has guaranteed revenue streams under the development agreement. And because of that feature, the federal arbitrage laws requires the debt to be issued in a taxable manner. Okay. Just so you understand why we're doing it this way. We have prepared the official statement again for this financing submitted it to both rating agencies in request of long term rating. And once again, we have been confirmed with a double A3 from Moody's and a double A minus from Standard & Poor's. Just for your information, those are comparable ratings. They are both in the double A category. Moody's uses numbers of one, two and three, one the highest, three the lowest. Standard & Poor's uses minuses and pluses or absent either one of them for the middle. So they're both comparable ratings. We began, we had both ratings in hand by the end of the day Tuesday. So we started the marketing process Wednesday morning. And it was, you know, hindsight is always nice, but we can now tell you that the Treasury market has slipped significantly since last week Wednesday. We were able to jump into a market and secure the investors to produce a net effective rate of a 3.95% today. By the end of today, that market has moved more than a quarter of a percent. So, you know, that's always nice to see after the fact. There's no way of knowing that obviously when you enter the market, but I can tell you that we have at least hit the market on a taxable at a very favorable time. Also on the memo at the bottom, you will see the purposes as to how we arrived at the 12 million and 20,000. You will see the convention center project and the costs associated with that to total $8,030,000. You will also see the resort project, which also has city funds of $2 million applied. So therefore we are issuing $3,990,000 of this money for the resort project. So that's how you add the two numbers together to arrive at $12 million and $20,000. The second page of my handout has a little history in the paragraph, the first paragraph that talks about why we're doing what we're doing. And it says that we're expecting the construction of our facilities to be completed by July of 04. And funds from the guaranteed revenue streams would be available to the city beginning in 2005. And those funds again will be used to offset the debt service requirements. Now there is interest that we are borrowing for the payments to be made in 2004 and the first payment in 2005 that we make interest payments semi-annually. That is called capitalized interest. That means we have that included in this borrowing. So the city keeps the money and holds it to make those interest payments in 04 and 05. We also have what's called a call feature on this issue beginning in 06. And any day thereafter through June 1 of 08 there's a two-year window as we call it. That's very important to the city. The reason we have that window is because as any dollars become available to the city, the city can prepay the principal. We simply issue a notice to the bond holder saying that we're calling it in. We're stopping the interest. It could be any increment of $5,000 and above. So if the city has $100,000 they want to prepay principal. You can prepay principal. So that means you do not have to refinance that debt on June 1 of 08. So it's a very important feature that can save the city a lot of money into the future. And also the extension of the life of districts six by four years is another important feature that allows the portion of the financing that will be repaid from the TIFF increments to be retired through the actual end of TIFF 6 now. And that will be repaid obviously from increments of the current as well as any future development in TIFF 6. The city will receive the money on November 17 and invest the money until it's needed to pay project costs. And then the rest of the report includes the debt service schedules, which really starts with page three, which is the combined number of $12 million, $20,000, and that is again combined for marketing. And the top of the page has the interest payments. The bottom of the page has the pricing summary as to how they were sold to the investors. And then the page following that, page four, again, is this schedule split by purpose. And this is the way the city will keep track of the convention center project and the debt associated with it and as well as the resort project and the debt service associated. So as the city does apply funds to the repayment of the debt, we certainly know what has been paid off and how. So are there any questions I can answer? Are there any questions of Carol? All of them go up. Not a question, but I'd like to ask Carol if she would comment on one of the speakers this evening had mentioned something about our bond rating and how it could be dropped at certain points in time. And this is one of the first years I believe that we've ever taken as much money out of our reserve funds as we have and I just want the entire council to know what effect that has on not only the 2004 budget but on future years and what it could present if we dig in there any more and come up with any more of those funds to be used for operations or whatever we may need them for. We basically have to keep our reserves as they are now, which I'm sure Carol will tell you because I'll let her speak to that. Sure. Well, first of all, let me start by mentioning that all of the financings that we have been doing in this calendar year, we were fortunate enough to have both rating agencies here and visit with them, show them the site of the Blue Harbor development and talk in detail about all of the financing that the city was going to be doing for the annual capital expenditures as well as the Blue Harbor project. And the rating agencies were very pleased and very comfortable with what we presented to them, the plan of finance for that. And so they have made mention of that, of every financing that we were going to do in the next phase always appeared in the current credit rating reports. So they have been very comfortable. So if you go back and look at any of the credit reports that we have had up to this point, there has been very positive comments regarding all of the financing for this project this year. Now, what has become of concern is as you are moving through the year, you are now entering your budget process. There are more concerns about the questions that appear or are discussed in the rating conference calls are, well, how do you expect 2003 to turn out? What do you expect that the city may do with regarding the fund balance? Because double-a credits, more is expected of you. The things that are within your control that affect your rating is fund balance and your debt structure.  But yet all of them have to come together. And if you have some weaknesses in those things that are not in your control, it becomes more crucial for you to maintain the things that they consider are within your control. So that's where double-a credits are expected to have a certain level of fund balance. However, if you ask them specifically for a number, they will dance around that answer. And primarily because it would be nice for us to just say here is a certain percentage and that's it. However, they also take into consideration the difference in times.  If you use $500,000 one year and you say, well, we've done it for the last five years so we can do it continuously into the future. However, it may not be as easy to keep raising that money to apply into the future. So it's your ability to generate the revenues that becomes more difficult. And that's what's starting to, as you know, with all the slowdown in the economy, they're starting to look too well. Municipalities are trying to hold down taxes and so they start saying, well, we've got this pot of money over there, this fund balance that we can start to eat away at and a little more so than what we did in the past. Well, the rating agencies are getting a little nervous about this. So what they're saying is, well, how much do you expect to use this year? And if the number is, you know, even greater than what you might have done in the past, that becomes a concern. And then they say, well, what are you going to do the following year? Well, we might have to do that again because we really can't see where, you know, we're going to generate any additional revenues. So the concern becomes greater and greater because they start seeing the fund balance used for recurring purposes. So they consider you may start to dig yourself a hole that you cannot come out of. So what they do is they print a statement in your credit report and that's where we're at right now. A statement in our credit report that says you're in the process right now of making some tough decisions with regard to your budget. And you are considering things for 2004 budget and you are of course looking down the road to your 2005 budget. And based on what you may be considering in terms of the application of your fund balance, that's going to make them very nervous for a double A credit quality. Okay? So there is a statement in there that says they have this concern. And the reason they put that concern is there is to let you know that they're watching you. And every time you will come back to market, they're going to obviously watch what your decisions are. And if you cannot maintain a level of fund balance which they feel you need to maintain to keep your double A credit quality, then they will drop the double A down to a single A which would the next level down would be an A1. Now they don't do that without notifying you. It doesn't just happen. However, we do have a statement right now so we're being notified that we're watching, they're watching us. Okay, so it's just something for you to be aware of. So it's not a statement that's related to the debt we're issuing or the structure of the debt. I mean, they have been happy with that since July so it has nothing to do with that. It's just simply where you're at right now, this time of the year and the decisions that you have to make. And so they're helping give you some comments about that. And I would guess, Carol, a lot of that has to go along with the state budget and what we get back from the state. That's right. What's going on in the state as a whole. Because that's exactly right.  Correct. That's exactly right. And we have management. I don't see Rich letting that management slip any. I think we've managed very well and we'll continue that. Right. So that's the issue that we wanted to speak to is that we have a statement that says that, you know, they understand where we're at but they want you to be aware of what decisions you make, what affect those decisions could have on the rating. And if there is a change in rating, what happens is that the interest rate you have tonight on your financing does not change. Or any of your outstanding debt does not change. Okay. What will happen is that those bond holders all bought your bonds assuming you have a double A credit quality and that they can sell them to someone else for a double A quality. If they drop to a single A, now they have lost some value. So you have some unhappy investors out there. What happens going forward with every financing is every financing you do going forward has a higher interest rate cost to it. Everyone. And the investors that may have been traditional buyers of your bonds in the past will do one of two things. They will either be very unhappy that their bonds now have a lower rating and will not participate. So you have shrunk the market. Or they will say fine, we'll participate, but there will be a price for participation. So again, it comes back to costing the city. And to get back to those municipalities who might have lost a credit rating and want to set a goal to come back and recover their rating takes a long time because even if you get to that goal, rating agencies don't reward you with an upgrade. They want to see trend. And trend is three years minimum to a rating agency. So once you get to that level, again, of comfort, you have to wait to at least demonstrate to them that it stays there for three years. Obviously our state's in that case right now. And that's, you know, you can see their credit reports have negative outlooks on them. And that's one of the reasons they have negative outlooks. Now we don't have a negative outlook. Correct. Okay. So I don't want you to think that that's happened here. I just want you to know which, you know, in some ways it's nice for the rating agencies to tell us that they're thinking about this rather than all of a sudden tell us they did this. So, okay. So I just want you to know that. We definitely will do our homework and make sure we don't get there. Okay. All right. Thank you. And Rich will be watching that fund balance very carefully. And I as chairman, and as long as I am chairman of finance will also be doing whatever needs to make sure that we control that. And I know the rest of the finance committee will be doing the same because we do not want to go below the double A credit rating. Correct. Thank you. Thank you, Carol. Thank you. Are there any other questions before we pass this? Any questions? Pat, would you call the roll please? Berg? Aye. Boonee? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Graf? Aye. Montemire? Aye. Moody? Aye. Brinflige? Aye. Pardon me? Aye. Stefan? Aye. Vanakren? Aye. Vanderwill? Aye. Wongerman? Aye. Warner? Aye. Weniger? Aye. We have a motion before us that all our O's be accepted and filed. Resolutions be put upon our passage and our C's be accepted and adopted. Accept. He wanted number nine referred back to finance. Please. Under the cassette agenda, your honor, which is 15-1 through 15-21, I would move that we, that all our C's be accepted and adopted, that all our O's be accepted and filed, and that we pass all resolutions. Accept. Okay. He wanted number nine referred back to finance. Yeah. Alderman Montemire wanted to refer that to finance. Is that what you were going to speak on Alderman Montemire? We don't need them all. Oh, okay. We can go ahead. Accept 15-9, which I'd like to refer back to finance. Correct. That's Henry's document. All right. Oh, I'm sorry.  Yes, that will be referred back to. Redevelopment. Redevelopment authority. That's right. Thank you, Steve. Alderman Warner, you had it? Yes, thank you. I'd like to speak on document number 15-18. Okay. And also, your honor, after the consent agenda, I would like to pull forward 14-1 and 14-30 so these people are regarding the vacation of the street don't have to sit here for a whole meeting. Okay. So on document 15-18, at our last committee of the whole meeting, we heard from Leah and Kathy Schild and Gerald Miller regarding SAM or Save American Manufacturing. And that's what document 15-18 is. It is the Save American Manufacturing Resolution that came to the committee of the whole and was forwarded to the Common Council for consideration. This resolution is important, and it's important in many ways. Just last week, our city was saddened to hear the reduction in the workforce at Plastics Engineering Company, which is a direct result of unfair and unequal trade practices. I can understand that some might think we have no business being involved in such issues at the local level of government, but I disagree with their position. Where else and how else can we make a statement expressing our sentiments on issues that have a direct impact on us? On you, on me, on our neighbors, on our friends, our local businesses and our employers. I submit that we have an obligation to express our concerns to our state and federal leaders regarding such issues that negatively impact our people. Personally, I do not agree with this resolution word-for-word, but I do agree with its intent and with its message, and I will support it. I think that free trade is a good idea, and that concept is well-intentioned. Yet I think that any free trade agreement must provide protections that ensure the playing field is level. Americans, our companies and our people can and do compete successfully with anyone when the playing field is level. When the rules are fairly laid out, Americans also compete and succeed many times when the scales are tipped against us. But lately it seems things have moved beyond what could be considered an imbalance to an outright threat to our own security and future. It is at times like this when one must speak out, especially to those in a position to have an impact on our future as a city, a state and a nation. Economic warfare is not as apparent as typical military warfare. It doesn't have a flash and bang, of course, and the results do not come apparent quite as quickly. But economic warfare is no less a battle, and in this case a battle to maintain our economic future and our country's ability to produce manufactured goods is no less important than a military war. Should we ever lose our manufacturing ability, we would also lose our military ability, and our entire nation would be in jeopardy. I believe it is not only proper, but our obligation to send a message to our state and federal leadership that they need to consider the impact their decisions on trade agreements have upon us. From our national security to our pocketbooks and our future as Americans, it is important that any existing and future trade agreements include the proper protections for U.S. companies and workers. I am not against our nation's corporations and multinational companies owning and operating overseas or across continents. I think the world has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. I think our companies must compete and operate all over the world to stay profitable and maintain their leadership role in the industry. I do, however, believe that free trade agreements come with responsibility. Responsibility to make sure that Americans and American companies are not put at a disadvantage because of unfair trade practices. This is critical to our country's future. I think this resolution sends a clear message, and I think we should all support it. Thank you. Did you want to separate vote on it? Yes, please. Voice vote? Okay. 15-18, we need a voice vote on it. Yes. Under discussion four. Under discussion. I'd like to thank Oliver for his comments regarding this. I, too, voted for it as a statement. I will do so again today, but I do care about saving American manufacturing. It's one thing that's more important to me, though, than saving American manufacturing and not saving Sheboygan manufacturing. This is a statement, but we have to keep in mind that a lot of what we do does impact the ability for Sheboygan manufacturers to be here. We are not only in competition with overseas markets, we're in competition with other states, and we're in competition with other cities within Wisconsin. If a plant relocates here to Lhasa, those are Sheboygan jobs lost. So I'd just like to point out that everything that we do that makes businesses not be able to compete locally is just as important to me as the statement about fair trade as well. Alderman Moody, do you want to speak on this issue? Alderman Montemire, did you want to speak on this issue? Thank you, Mayor. Alderman Warner, I agree with your statements. I still sort of feel that the city shouldn't get involved. We're setting a precedent of maybe things that we don't want to get involved with. However, talking to numerous staffers in Washington, the most effective communication they get is an actual letter from an actual person with an actual signature, more than big lists of names or emails or groups sending. The most effective is your letter with your name and your envelope. Thank you. If there's no other discussion on this issue, we'll vote on this one first, this document, and then I'll get you Alderman Moody. Please. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? No. Motion carries. Okay, Alderman Moody. Thank you, Your Honor. On 15-16, RC by the Special Committee on Risk Management recommending denying claim from Richard Poole for alleged damages to his tires when he ran over a sandwich detour sign and serving notice of disallowance. Mr. Poole called me about this. He said that a sign was laying in the road. Evidently, maybe some kids had thrown it in the road or something. But the construction, the actual construction, had been finished for a week already. That sign should have been removed. Could I just ask what the discussion was in committee about that? Mike? Betty, that was, we investigated that matter. The sign, we did not, city did not have any signs located in that area. What we found it to be was a sign placed there. We thought by a contractor working for the water utility. So the claim was referred to the water utility. And I believe Mr. Poole got a denial from the water utility also. It was unknown how the sign found its way into the roadway. So the sign had nothing to do with the city? No, it was definitely not ours. Okay. Thank you. Okay. With that being care of everything else from 15-1 through 15-21 will be put upon as passage. Pat, would you call the roll? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Grodd? Aye. Montemire? Aye. Moody? Aye. Rinflaj? Aye. Steffen? Aye. Van Agren? Aye. Danderweal? Aye. Wongelman? Aye. Warner? Aye. Weninger? Aye. Bowman? Aye. Bird? Aye. Fourteen? Yes. All in order. Document 14-1 is a communication from Mark Dingell of 1601 Illinois Avenue requesting the council approve the vacation of South 16th Street from Illinois Avenue to 150 feet south. And I would move to accept and file. You can do them together. Do them together. Okay. And on the RO, which is document 1430 RO number 3440304 be placed on file in the attached substitute ordinance be put upon its passage. Second. Okay. Moving in second to communication 14-1 be accepted and filed. RO be accepted and filed in the substitute general ordinance be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Under discussion, Your Honor. This will vacate the property as requested by Mark Dingell in the previous communication. This property has been sitting unused forever except by the people using it as a cut through point illegally public and public works and public protection safety have dealt with many problems in this area. This action will not only put the property on the tax rolls but also allow the residents to keep the property up. And we've been working on this one for a long time and the commission recommends approval. Did anyone want to speak on that? I just want to make sure that the council is going to vote for it. Okay. Okay. We have a motion before us. Pat, would you call the roll please? Doyle. Aye. Graf. Aye. Montemayor. Aye. Moody. Aye. Rinflaich. Aye. Stefan. Aye. Warner. Aye. Wieninger. Aye. Bauman. Aye. Berg. Aye. Bonet. Aye. 14 ayes. Motion carried. 1522 through 1524 to be referred. 1525. We'll go to plan commission. 1526. Public protection and safety. I don't read them all. No, I don't have to read them all. 1525 through 5035 to be referred. 1537. By Alderman Graf, transferring funds to provide monies for the crisis command and mobile command software installation. Alderman Graf. Thank you, Your Honor. That resolution along with resolution 1538, which is ratifying entering into the Autodesk government pilot program software license agreement. Agreement, excuse me, in task order. I would ask for suspension on those two documents. It's been moved in a second for suspension. Is there any objections of the suspension? Any objections? I would ask that the two resolutions be put upon their passage. Move to second resolutions be put upon their passage under discussion. Alderman Orner.  Alderman. Public knows what we're talking about. Who would like to explain that? Margie. Margie. This is a project to enhance our graphical information system, our GIS system. It's tying our maps with information. This particular project is to tie our information from our fire department to the mapping that the engineering department is doing right now. And it's like a pilot project to get us going so we can tie additional information that we have to the maps so that it can be used in all the departments. Okay. Thank you, Margie. If there's another discussion, what do you call a roll please? Graf. Aye. Montemare. Aye. Moody. Reinflige. Aye. Steffen. Aye. Van Anken. Aye. Vanderweel. Aye. Wongerman. Aye. Warner. Weninger. Aye. Baumann. Aye. Burr. Aye. Bonet. Transferring, authorizing transferring funds to establish estimated revenue and appropriation for professional services in the building inspection department. Alderman Graf. Yeah, I'm asked for suspension on this resolution. It's moved in second for suspension. Is there any objections? Any objections? Hearing none, proceed. I would ask that this resolution be put upon its passage. Moved in second, a resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none. Would you call the roll, please? Montemare. Aye. Moody. Aye. Reinflige. Aye. Steffen. Aye. Van Anken. Aye. Vanderweel. Aye. Wongerman. Aye. Warner. Aye. Weninger. Aye. Baumann. Aye. Burr. Aye. Bonet. Aye. Doyle. Aye. Graf. Dolman. Van Aekwren. Your honor, I move the resolution be put upon this passage. Second. Moved in second, a resolution be put up on its passage. Under discussion. Under discussion, Your Honor, I'd like to amend the resolution. Where it says hire two. I'd like to change that to three. The reason for that is that since we talked about hiring two, one other, one person went back to teaching school. So we have three openings and they are all paid budgeted for this year and next year. It's been moved and seconded first of all for the amendment of not rather in hiring two to add three new police officers under discussion Hearing none, do you need a roll on it all in favor of the amendment? Opposed motion carried. Okay. No, I move that Resolution as amended be put upon as passage Moving in second a resolution be put upon as passage as amended under discussion all the right flesh Just a quick question. I know working with public works. We came through to find a 5% decrease in this in the budget and for public works, I guess I'd just like to ask how Yeah, certainly hope we can do so I know there's a need to fill these positions, but how does this impact the budgeting process and savings for next year as well We have been doing with the the mayor in different committees For many months now and how to reach those Those numbers these three positions are funded positions that we have in the 2003 budget We do have an agreement that we're for vacancies or we're for short next year Two of those are unfunded to our funded. So we are these are our dollars that are there These are positions that were there until the three probationary officers Resigned for a number of different reasons So this is a separate distinct issue than what the 5% is We were planning these these were there. They were filled before we were dealing with the 5% Chief Alderman Stefan Can't believe you asked him to stay you must have read my mind I certainly think we need these and I'm in support But as we move forward into the budget period of time, I just have a some questions And I'm gonna say some things I'm glad the chief is here because if I misspeak from what we talked about in finance the other night Feel free to correct me my first concern and I'm just bringing these up because I'd like to see either a bit the mayor Public protection safety Sellers agreements, you know, we've got to resolve these issues I think at budget time which is upon us first issue is over time You know, I always was under the impression and maybe I want to be clear because maybe I was wrong when the chief said We're five officers short. We're six officers short whatever it was and we've been short all the time lately I was thought that meant, you know, okay, if he's four officers short, it's one less cop walking the street pretty much all the time Maybe you know there's four shifts different shifts It's really not the case what we've been doing is we've been using our overtime and taking the money that was budgeted for patrols and putting it into overtime and He's really short now. I think it's eight people. So, you know, now they're probably okay There is an effect, you know, maybe but in the past even when they were four five six short They've been able to pretty much use overtime use supervisors in vehicles to minimize the impact upon the service to the community And I just feel that's wrong I think, you know, we should say hey, let's put the money in the patrol salaries Over time is you know, we're losing what we think in other areas. It works in other areas a person retires me say Well, you know what we won't fill that job for six months and there's a savings there In the police department, there's not a savings because instead of filling that patrol officer. We're just spending the money on overtime Or we're paying supervisors to do overtime So I don't see that we're benefiting by not filling patrol spots I think it's you know, it's upon us to say this is what how many patrol officers we want I believe this year with the last Change we had like 300 250 or $300,000 worth of overtime again because he was so far behind it was just switched over It didn't increase the budget at all because it went from patrol salaries into the various overtime budgets But I just said we should make the commitment that we're gonna fund the patrol at whatever it is and that's what it is You know, I mean and and the overtime should be kept for emergencies for officers in court And those types of things because it's also putting a tremendous pressure on his police officers You know, they can't get the time off when they work the overtime anyways So they you know, they're just working and working and working So that's one issue I think we have to make a commitment to say we're funding patrol salaries And we're not gonna play games with moving the money into overtime because it doesn't work if we say oh We'll fill that in six months. We're not saving any money by doing that in other areas of it We are saving money, but I don't believe so in this area. We are saving money much if ever The other thing we talked about in June or July of last year was what about the liaison officers currently as we approach this budget The liaison officers are in the budget budget as they happen in the past When we got to last June or July we said well, we can't really tell the school district We're not funding him in August because they were under that impression But I think this is the time to say yeah, it's definitely going to be in the budget till June or July Do we want to move forward with it and there again that you know That's got to be done with the chief and public protection and safety. What's the best use of his manpower? You know patrolling people on the street liaison can we afford both as we have What is a school board? What are they going to do? Are they going to take them out? Are they going to fund them fully those are all things that we should be looking at that impact this but I think In the near future is the time to take care of that We also have a retirement coming up sometime in January and February of a supervisor You know if if when we use this over time part of our solution is to put some of the supervisors on the streets patrolling maybe We can do as other departments have and reorganize and use that money to put more officers on the streets and patrol If that's where we need them and I think that needs to be looked at to see that we're using the best use of our manpower and lastly Documents came to us tonight. We haven't voted on it. We're gonna vote on next time all the police or all the other unions have made some type of sacrifice okay In active solidarity, I guess as of now I'm not aware of the police group I know they're still talking but I don't think they've come up with anything yet And I know the chief had mentioned one time you talked to somebody and they said well part of the problem is they think They're sacrificing because they're working on silver time, you know I guess my concern is I think if they don't come forward with some type of concession I can only draw two questions. What is it's benefiting them if we keep paying the overtime Why would the officer sacrifice because he's benefiting because he'll get the overtime if we don't fill the positions on the other hand If they don't find that true the other one is maybe they just don't think they need to patrol people in the streets So I you know certainly encourage the officers To look at that because I think you know it wouldn't be right if all the other Employees are coming forward with some type of a you know to keep their fellow brother working and the police officers don't do that But you know, I think all of those are kind of different But you know those are things that we need to kind of settle beforehand, you know, because I just don't think I think we're kidding ourselves if we say let's hire two cops and Let the other four sit and we're gonna spend the money over time. Let's hire them Let's put them on the street and you're not saving any money by using the overtime I just feel that's an inefficient way. We should be funding the officers And I will support this Thank you All of them in order Thank you, and I agree with also with all of them and stepping on that We would love not to have to have officers working overtime and believe me After after working a full shift and then staying longer every day They don't want to work overtime either because they're getting burned out We really would rather have more officers on the street that works the same way in the fire department People don't want to work overtime anymore.  They try the same thing but some of these people don't want to work overtime anymore they're burning themselves out and The only way you can reduce that is to Hire live bodies that can be there and then we can reduce overtime budgets, and that's a good idea All right, then after your honor He also will be getting two more Officers in January which was approved by this committee which was held off in January So you'd be actually getting five men by the end of January correct so chief Chiefs agreement with me is these D3 positions are on foreseen yet No knowledge that this is going to happen. They're funded We agreed upon filling them and the other two in January So you will be down too much as an agreement which was in a concessions for your 5% for next year correct? We'll actually be down three well with the retirement right if we don't if we don't fill that retirement You'd be down three absolutely, we've been Speaking and we did come to an agreement back last summer that we would leave to vacant correct police officer positions on funded positions correct His meeting is 5% that way Thank You chief Okay, if there's another discussion Would you call the roll, please? Moody Rinflaich Stefan Van Ankeren Vanderweel Longamon Longamon of all people Warner Weninger Baumann Berg Boney Doyle Graf Montemayor 14 eyes motion carried 1541 we'll go back to special Marina committee 1542 we'll lie over also 1543 unless you want something else with that Alderman Graf your honor 1543 is the the Resolution that is being looked at to revise the Agreement with the the firefighters and the and the city regarding concessions for for 2004 and According to our last strategic fiscal planning meeting and according to the budget formation policy that we We passed on this council Some type of recommendation is supposed to come from strategic fiscal planning on on these documents and at this time I would move that we refer this to strategic fiscal planning Moved in second and just be referred to strategic fiscal plan under discussion Alderman Warner Your honor, I guess I would ask that we can leave the document lie over in council and refer to strategic fiscal plan at the same time I just think that I don't know what we're going to achieve by sending it back to strategic fiscal plan again I guess I would like a better explanation Why other than just that we can change our mind? We have all the other documents here from the other agreements, and I think we should consider this one in the same light Alderman Burke Yes, if Rich Gephardt could Step up to the podium and explain if this is an actual savings or if it's a wash or who is gaining anything on This deal with the firemen. I guess the one difference that this Proposal has from the other is that the concessions here from the fire union would reinstate one firefighter But in order for them to provide the additional or maintain the one truck they have to have teams of three and They're applying on and their original plan here to lay off three firefighters. They said their concessions were in state one Under this agreement the we would have to have a funding plan for the other two firefighters, which we have under discussion with the chief But we would have to bring that to committee to put that in place as We all know this year is scarce resources. We would we have to find a source for that difference And that's why we need some discussion in a committee to come back With a plan to counsel on that at least through the budget process. We would come back with that plan so the That's the variance from the other Proposals from the unions Ed or chief Do either one of you want to speak on this if you know if you wish to send it to finance committee or wherever But I somehow we have to confirm that we have an agreement on a plan I think some of the discussions right now that are scheduled and strategic such as Capital outlaying the general fund and the you know the cable transfer Some of those could be part of this discussion as we try to formulate this plan So that's why we thought strategic might be the place chief Ed Thank You mr. Mayor and common counsel Basically it's a difference of numbers Working with the mayor and I appreciate Getting a chance to work with the mayor and saving the first three firefighters Without savings of the first three firefighters which we gave up over time money and some other money through the budget That actually created three people that wouldn't be laid off Unemployment costs and severance payout, which is about thirty some thousand dollars That was in the basically dollar-for-dollar being saved to the proposal of the firefighters, which brings in about sixty two thousand dollars The proposal with that I mean with the mayor along with the proposal that the firefighters saves another three firefighters Which is another thirty some thousand dollars and unemployment costs basically? It's about a hundred twenty five thousand dollars for the saving of the hundred fifty nine thousand dollars That's needed to save the three positions leaving about thirty thousand dollars That's a common counsel would have to come up with to maintain the status of the safety of the citizens I believe that the level of services is needed if you do nothing and say lay off three firefighters You have a thirty three thousand dollars a severance payout unemployment that yourself and shared costs So basically in my figures in my numbers when we put this together. It's a wash But the first thirty one thousand dollars everything was taken out of the unemployment prior to Disagreement of firefighters. So from the thirty thousand it's now at sixty thousand. So yes, Rich Keppert's numbers basically are right I so believe that my numbers are what was on my budget, which creates it basically being a wash But I guess that that's why it's being referred to strategic fiscal planning But it has been basically passed unanimously by the public protection safety committee past the salary grievance committee And thank you Donnie Von Ackman for hearing our firefighters and and the fire union come in in good faith effort to try and maintain Staffing at the backs of the themselves the employees themselves coming forth knowing that it's the best for the citizens I should wearings protection to keep that truck in service and for their safety when they respond and so I guess that's where it is and I guess where the money is gonna have to come from the thirty thousand sixty thousand that's gonna be debated but it's an option that I haven't heard of any other city employees coming forth and That's basically where I believe it's catching on our own the state though when we started asking our employees to come forward Other cities are doing that. No, and I have to come in with the mayor I'm when we started this process back started back a few months ago in our and insert in our staff meetings The mayor said, you know, let's go to our employees. They're part of the party. Let them be part of the resolution Not knowing what would happen. They came forth all unions came forth with different programs different projects But they had some head contracts and some didn't have contracts Some had different work schedules and others that could work it out But everyone's an individual types agreement and I think one thing that you have to remember You have city employees willing to give back something that they already negotiated what they had to try and keep the city going at least For another year, who knows what's gonna happen in 2005. We might be right back here laying people off in 2005 I hope not hope something changes. Don't think it's good better But at least for the year 2004 as far as the fire department is respected We can keep all our trucks operating the way it is. Thanks to the membership giving back almost sixty five thousand dollars of their money That's about a thousand dollars per firefight that they've been given back. Thank you, chief All in order I think I guess I've had nothing but positive feedback regarding the firefighters stepping up to a plate Not only on the job providing emergency medical services and fire protection But also for lending a hand to help solve our budget problems in 2004 by returning one half of their race to the city taxpayers It may be not directly, but it is still there and it is still money that the city is saving When our unions in this city came forward and said We're gonna work with you instead of against you on this every single one of them that came forward is offering something We have seven different unions. There's some that still have have some work to do But out of seven different unions we never have seven contracts are the same There's a different way of applying every single one of them And they all have their things that are important to them And I think that when our employees come forward and they offer something to us to help the city move forward That that we should do all we can to accept it if we have to find some make some changes in this We can do that without this document. I just don't understand why we have to keep Why we won't have to send it to strategic when it's right here in front of us today And I think we should take action along with the rest of them We can't take action on this because it's here to lie over or to be referred to strategic at our last strategic meeting the five or the four committee chairman and All of them want one of her had voted to Review all these at strategic and that's why I'm referring this to to strategic to review these So that was my motion This one right now that's just on this one right now Which came in the same way All of them along a month. Thank you. I'm just a comment or two on this the chief has made it in Point in the past that How imperative it is that we retained the present staffing on the fire department a Chief you can correct me if I'm wrong But I believe you had said it takes approximately 16 men to respond to a general alarm their normal shift is 19 So it doesn't take much in a way of mathematics to see if we get we lay off three people when they respond to a general arm They have no one in reserve Which could be extremely urgent usually what happens is that reserve vehicle gets pulled downtown so it's central now any time that you receive a Fire call from a school or a hospital or whatever The general alarm is declared and all units respond except one which is held in reserve now we Don't go along with this system system. We're gonna end up where we have no one in reserve now On an ambulance call when the fire department is our first responders and there's no one there to respond It it could mean life and property. So it's a real life issue So it's very important that the fire department maintain its present level of sapping and We sat through some of these meetings with the fire the fires union and I have to commend them for you know as Alderman Warner said stepping up to the plate and and Really finding a solution for the very vexing problem. Thank you. Thank you Question for rich You guys have to make a decision on this one or the other normally these lay over these contracts lay over for two weeks rich We spoke about this and staff this morning The final decision on how the money is allocated from these concessions would be at strategic to get a strategic Strategic though you said or I shouldn't say you said it was discussed this morning that if it goes today or if it if it would lie over we could implement that money after the budget's passed Didn't have to be immediately correct. I Mean the decisions have to be made there somewhere along the line the strategic but You still have contracts coming in which we're I think we're talking about a different Proposal not the fire proposal right first of all different. Yes. So it's on another item on the it's on the agenda But yes on some of the other ones Because you're just doing exchange of appropriations in some cases That decision could be made after the budget and tax levy are set as we make other budget changes in the course of the year It was my only point But it was not on this proposal that I was saying that the concern on this one is having sufficient appropriations to maintain The three firefighter level. Thank you All the graph do you have something you want to All right, we have a motion before us pet You want a roll call sure? This is to refer to just 1543 the strategic rather than lay over Rindflige Stefan Ben Akron, no Vanderbill, no Wongamon Warner Weninger Berg Boonee Doyle Graf Montemire Moody Seven eyes seven nose We will let a lie over for two weeks and then we'll take to take that Route and we will work on it in strategic as we get it 1546 to be referred. Oh excuse me 1544 and 45 will lie over 1546 to be referred 1547 will lie over 1548 and 49 to lie over 1550 and 51 to be referred 1334 our all by city planning commission recommending amending the zoning ordinance to permit exceptions to maximize height Regulations by conditional use of variance procedures all in order. I think your honor I'd move to accept and file the reportable officer and if I could take 1364 with it that that general ordinance be put upon its passage Moved in second at the arrow be accepted to file an ordinance be put upon its passage under discussion under discussion your honor This is an ordinance emitting the text of the city of Sheboygan official zoning ordinance in section 15.406 So as to permit exceptions to the maximum height regulations by condition conditional use or variance procedure right now There's only by conditional use and this will allow variance procedure also This was discussed in the plan commission and the plan commission recommends passage we need further explanation Steve is here, and I'm sure he could do that hearing none You call the roll Stefan an Akron Vanderbilt Wongamon Warner hi weninger Bowman Berg Bonnet Doyle graph Montemayor Moody Rindflash 14 eyes motion carried 1429 arrow by city plan commission recommending vacating the on-pay of deli between south 17th Street and south 18th Street and between Alabama Avenue and Georgia Avenue all of them Warner thank you honor I move to accept and file the reportable officer and that's a general ordinance be put upon its passage I'll take the next one to Sir on 1431 I make a motion to accept and file that reportable officer and that that general ordinance be put upon its passage also It's moving to second. I always be accepted and filed in both generals One substitute general ordinance and one ordinance be put upon his passage under discussion under discussion your honor This is relative to vacating the unpaved alley between south 17th Street and south 18th Street and between Alabama Avenue and Georgia Avenue The abutting property owners have requested the city vacate this unimproved east-west alley The plan commission recommends approval and the property will be added back to the tax rolls and on 1431 that is Relative to rezoning the property located at 1320 Niagara Avenue from class Urban industrial to class urban commercial classification. This is the former city tool shed, I believe and It's going to be used for both storage and is in fact being used for both storage and repair facility And it fits very well with the present and future development along our riverfront and our lakefront Plan Commission recommends passage of both Is there any other discussion? hearing none Van Akron Vander wheel Longerman Warner Hi, Winneger Bowman Bird Bonnet Doyle Graf Montemayor Moody Rinfouche Stefan 14 eyes motion caring 1432 our old by the purchasing agent submitting a summary of proposals for obtaining prescription benefit management services all of them go The honor I would move that the our old 1432 be accepted in file and that we pass a resolution Which is authorizing the city of Sheboygan to enter into a contract for attorney obtaining prescription benefit management services from Restat Moved in a second. I will be accepted in file and resolution 1444 be put upon a spassage on your discussion Alderman Ornard Under discussion your honor I just want to commend Alderman Graf this could potentially save the city over a hundred and twenty one thousand dollars And I think this is a good example of how active city officials are looking at ways to save money from every angle and every aspect Over rough did a good job on this Okay, thank you. Thank you, James Is there any other discussion hearing none would you call the roll please Vander wheel Wongamon Warner Winneger Bowman Bird Bonnet Doyle Graf Montemayor Moody Ring-fliesh Stefan Van Akron 14 eyes motion carry 1445 resolution by Alderman Graf winning her Doyle and Bonnet transferring appropriations in the 2003 budget Yeah, and I moved that the resolution to put upon his passage Moved in second resolution be put upon his passage under discussion. Very none. Would you call the roll please? Wongamon Warner Winneger Bowman Bird Bonnet Doyle Graf Aye Montemayor Aye Moody Aye Ring-fliesh Stefan Aye Van Akron Aye Vander wheel 14 eyes motion carry the next three 1442 1428 1443 our resolutions and our o's On contracts also Ed you want to speak on that Before first of all, let's get a motion on the floor Alderman Van Akron. I moved that 42 accepted and adopted and RO be filed and 1443 be accepted and opted It's been moved at RO 1428 be accepted and filed in resolutions 1442 and 43 but put upon her passage Under discussion Ed Yeah, the first contract is a logo 1564 asked me which is Which represents basically our city hall employees and engineering employees and in some Some other groups throughout the city, but basically it is a reopening of a two-year contract The contract is for oh three and oh four and with the union came up with was The raise that was anticipated to be taken on January 1st of 1904 or 2004 I'm sorry, we'd be frozen until December 31st of 04 The second agreement is with local 2039 ask me which represents our public workers employees and basically it's a two-year contract They have also agreed. I won't go into particular details. I think each of the Alderman persons has one, but basically they have also agreed to The The raise effective January of 2004 again in January would be a frozen until December 31st of 04 and I Command both unions. I think it was a Very substantial concessions on both parts All over again on it. You might have a question here or you had a question over why would it so Just again, these these two agreements I believe one of them is connected to the The contract which were where's should approve tonight But there's no way that these two agreements for these concessions that they're making can be referred to to Strategic fiscal planning unless All three documents are correct. Please so Because that's what our policy calls for I will move that the three documents be referred to strategic fiscal planning Tides a lack of second. Yeah Ed Maybe Don might want to address this too. Typically we When we resolve a contract it goes through salary and grievance which both the reopener on the contract And the extra contract itself and then we'll Comes to common counsel is laid over and then Is accepted I don't know Steve that's standard on on when Contracts are acted on by the council, but slowly up to the council is to Council is the governing body of the city if if they want to send something to a particular committee. They've got every right to do that, but that's requires a Majority of the council to want to send it somewhere else Okay, any other question? I commend all the two unions that brought back these concessions and so forth, but I cannot support either one of them And I'd like to to vote for the contract itself, but and vote no against the The concessions and that's only because we're just delaying a problem that we're going to face Come the end of 2004 The both concessions are delaying 1.75 percent, I believe is correct of their 2004 salary until the end of 2004 So we have basically a year to play with as to What needs to be done? What changes can be made and if If we don't stay on firm and make some suggestions like even combining departments cutting staff Whatever we have to do We're just duplicating and doubling up on a problem that we're going to face for 2005 and 2006 So i'm i'm not going to steal from peter to pay paul and I won't vote for any of these contracts the other discussion Thank you No, no there. Would you call the roll please warner? There was no second to his referral there was a second to accepting the contract passing 1442 and 1443 and accepting and filing 1428 they are all It's not to refer it's for passage warner weninger bauman burg boonee Doyle groth montemeyer moody rinfeige stefan van ankron van der wheel wongerman 12 eyes two nose motion carry We will still have to revisit some of this and uh strict gg called them and drop later on Yes, we will Okay As we move forward 1450 rc by public protection and safety recommending Filing communication from john damrel and charles boreth Requesting no parking signs from the southeast corner wildwood avenue and avans avenue south 200 feet and passing the attach ordinance Alderman warner I thank your honor I would make a motion to accept and file the report of committee and pass the attached ordinance Moved in second that we accept and adopt to report a committee in the past ordinance under discussion under discussion your honor I thank you This is in response to a communication From john damrel and charles boreth requesting no parking signs from the southeast corner of wildwood avenue and evans avenue South approximately 200 feet Now this was discussed at public protection safety committee's meeting In the city's traffic sergeant sergeant Tarkowski recommended the changes over the years There have been many complaints by the residents of people parking in the way of their driveways and even driving over their lawns Well, this is a unique area and we expect this change to alleviate the problems for now for once and for all and into the future With the changes in that area Recommend passage. Thank you Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Wongman warner 14 eyes motion carry 1461 rc by special committee on risk management recommending that the Library be allowed to participate in the city's medical prescription drug and dental benefit programs effective in 2004 all of agrar Yeah, now move that the rc be accepted and adopted Moved in second rc be accepted and adopted under discussion Hearing none Would you call the roll please? Oh, you don't need one all in favor opposed motion carried 1410 will go to a special committee on risk management 1411 will go to special committee on risk management in 1414 will go to the special committee on risk management Other matters 1552 will go to public works 1553 to public works Steve 1554 is a communication received by the mayor from verdet shalt of shabuagan memorial post 9156 requesting an extension of time to vacate the property at 911 north 11th street. That will go to planning commission 1555 is a resolution authorizing a 100 watt high pressure sodium street light for the intersection of north 15th street and grand avenue at the northeast corner That will go to public works 1556 is a resolution approving City shabuagan and the shabuagan police department accepting the local law enforcement block grant fund and expending them for the intended purpose And that will go to public protection of safety Oh, hang on paula magrath Just to to let everyone know there is a risk management meeting called for September or november 6th at i believe 6 o'clock and Three items on the agenda is discussion of those Of those agreements and concessions and we will still discuss those. Thank you The other oh strategic yeah The other thing is uh the 20th November 20th I I believe correct rich We talked special meeting There'll be a special go ahead rich there'll be a special hearing on the budget Yes, the mayor is Scheduled the hearing on the budget to be thursday the 20th at seven o'clock And then we'll have the regular meeting on the 24th for a passage of the budget in the tax loving Okay And the only items will be discussed that night is the budget Everything on the budget Pardon It'll just that'll be public input to come up It'll just be the hearing no documents No documents just a hearing and uh We'll give each one Time to speak at the mic Move to second for adjournment under discussion hearing none all in favor