Hey everybody, tonight we're debating whether or not there should be vaccine mandates and we are starting right now. With CIDR reports opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, CIDR and Port, the floor is all yours. Thank you so much for having me back, James, and thank you to Alex for being here as well and look forward to a fun debate. Yeah, so like jumping in with a few hours of notice on, you know, isn't exactly ideal on a massive topic like this, but you know, we rise to the occasion. There's this notion that vaccine mandates or vaccine passports are, you know, new form of authoritative measures brought on by the obviously communist reign of the Biden administration. But they've actually been used quite a lot throughout history. Jacobson versus Massachusetts in 1905, which is a US Supreme Court case on this very issue. It stated on it that the collective rights of a group of people out not to live in a world written by plague or by viruses or illnesses outweighed the rights of the individual not to take a vaccine. This is absolutely no different. Vaccine passports are also something that we've that we can find regularly in history though slightly earlier in 1897, the earliest known cases that we have of them to stick with with smallpox. A piece of paper, which is what a vaccine passport is, was required if traveling in or out of the states or if you were coming up safe from Mexico if you're flying into the country, etc, etc. You would need to provide proof of your vaccination. Full FDA approval is now given this week to the Pfizer vaccine is the one that I got I am fully vaccinated. I wonder if all the people who said that it's now experimental medicine will now be lining up to get us. But yes, well, there you go. One can only hope vaccines don't have microchips in them to track you your, your phone that's doing a much better job of it. Depending on which phone brand you have you're either giving your fingerprint to like Samsung or some other Chinese company or you're giving a 3D model of your face to Apple. It doesn't have the ability to turn you into magneto from the X men either if you put a coin on your forehead and it stays there you have very poor hygiene you're not magnetic. This is that we know that things like polio meningitis mumps whooping cough smallpox tennises and chicken pox are no longer lifelong problems and don't lead to complications later in life because vaccines work. They don't cause autism and they are to protect you and everybody around you from otherwise deadly viruses. I know it was a little bit short and sweet but that is the end of my time I'll leave it over to Alex. You got to thank you very much for that opening statement cider import and want to let you know, folks, if it's your first time here at modern day debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from and also folks very excited for upcoming juicy debates such as a good old debate on veganism, which has been rescheduled to next week between Alex and vegan gains. And so hey, hit that subscribe button folks, you don't want to miss upcoming juicy debates just like this one. And so with that, Alex, thanks for being with us. The floor is all yours. It's always a pleasure. Thank you and thank you to Ian for being here all the way from Ireland. I appreciate it. I'm in Dallas, Texas. So I know that the time difference makes us a little annoying.  Okay, but real quick, I just want to start off by saying you mentioned talking about chicken pox and measles. And one thing about those vaccines, I just want to get off, you know, off my chest is once you get the measles vaccine, you never get measles again. But see the problem with this vaccine is once you get this vaccine, it doesn't protect you from spreading the actual virus. So it doesn't make you any less susceptible of transferring the virus than an unvaccinated person. But this is what I want to do. I have some stuff I need to share, but I want to make a few points because what's happening here is you talk about the emergency use authorization. And you can say that Pfizer got that. But before we get into the conspiracy woods, there, the head of Pfizer is was the head of the FDA for the last two years. So, you know, we can look into that sky bear, come down, my cat's going crazy. You know, I can pull that meme.  So I want to do a share screen. I wanted to just show this for the people playing at home if I can. And I want to say this is this is one reason why people don't a little thing about the vaccine. People don't realize is for the Pfizer vaccine itself, even with your FDA approval, the vaccine has to be in. It cannot go higher than 76 degrees. It has to be in a perfect storage range. Well, you're in Ireland. I'm sure everybody in Ireland's a good employee. But see the thing is, I'm in Dallas, Texas. And when you go to the CVS in Dallas, Texas, Hector, the guy that loads the, loads the vaccines into the pharmacy, they don't care if it rises over 80 degrees. So you can say that the vaccine's safe, but not only does the vaccine have to be safe, but the entire carriage from from distribution to my arm, the thing has to stay under 76 degrees. I mean, Ireland might be cold, but I'm in Texas today was 98 degrees. It is hotter than a, the devil's dick, as we say, where I'm at. So I don't trust for these people to even take care of the vaccine because these people don't care because it's not going in their arms. So I just want to say, first off, that is one of the biggest safety issues that you cannot trust the people administering it because if you will do a vaccine pop up clinic on the side of a road and apartment clinic. They do it next to a dumpster. I mean, here in Dallas, Texas, they have the military giving these things out the military out on the streets where it's 100 degrees and you're telling me this vaccine has to stay and can never rise above 76 degrees. And if it does, it could potentially be deadly or cause issues. But on top of that, this is what I want to say you said the microchips. This is this is just out of Japan. 1.6 million Moderna doses withdrawn in Japan over contamination. The company confirms reports of particulate matter in vials but finds no safety issues. But this listen, okay, of course they're going to say no safety issues. I don't want to, you know, alarm people. But about 1.6 million doses of Moderna's coronavirus vaccine have been taken out of use in Japan because of the contamination reported in some vials. The Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare said early Thursday. Several vaccination centers have reported the vaccine vials contain foreign matter according to an announcement from the ministry which added it will seek to minimize the impact of the withdrawal in the country's inoculation program. The ministry said later in the day that the substance had been mixed and it may have been metal. It's a substance that reacts to magnets. A ministry official said it could be metal. So you're going to be like, Alex, do you have any real research? Well, this, I went and filmed this at the military. This is an experiment I did in front of the military. This is in Dallas, Texas, if you can see this. And so I want to show you right now. This is me doing the test on this girl's arm. You just put it on your arm wherever you got the injection. It should stick to it. You got a good feeling. She's not an actress. She's just a random person outside. It's sticking. It's sticking. It's sticking on her arm, guys. It's sticking on her arm. It's sticking on her arm. It's sticking. Hey, guys, that'll stick again. Let me show you. It's going to stick on more people's arms. Let me show you. It's going to stick on multiple people's arms. I'll just show you now. Have you had it? Let's see. Hold on. Hold on. Where is it? It's sticking. It is sticking. You just got to show it. Hello, military people. Come on. None of you care. How can I make this up, dude? It's sticking right there. I'm the crazy one. People are getting vaccines. It's sticking. It's sticking. So for me, and then I see in Japan, they say that 1.6 million Moderna doses were drawn in Japan over contamination. And then they say here the Pfizer vaccine has to be over 76 degrees. And I don't even want to get into the Nuremberg codes because I can read all 10 of them. The idea of a vaccine mandate, you know, the experiment should be so conducted to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury. And that's the problem is that there's other things like ivermectin and there is hydroxychloroquine, but they can't prescribe those. And it's actually illegal. People are getting in trouble for prescribing those because it is what happens is if they were to prescribe it, that means that there's another reliable cure other than the emergency youth authorization of the vaccine. So they have to do it. See, the problem is with the vaccine is even with 100% vaccination rate, now with every six months they want to booster, you'll never ever be fully compliant. And so it takes 300% because now you got to get three vaccines a year or however many it's going to be. So it's a never ending slippery slope. That's the problem is you don't see here in America. We had everything called the Patriot Act. What that did is that gives them warrantless search and seizure of our phones and of our emails. And what they did is they say that's under the guise of your safety. So what America does is it takes away your freedom under the guise of safety. So you're saying that all the Democrats and liberals here in my country, they're fighting and saying that voter ID laws are racist. It is illegal to show an ID to go vote. That is racist. People are flying from Texas. They're not voting. It's actually it's one of the biggest political issues. Yet those same exact people, those same people want you to have to have not only your ID, but also have an inoculation just to go to the grocery store. But somehow that's not racist. And when you look at the distribution of vaccines per race, black people are actually the least vaccinated race. And that goes back to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, which happened in 1942 to or I think it was a 1930 to 1970. And in that experiment, what they did is they gave black sharecroppers syphilis under the guise of free health care. So black people have trepidation when it comes to free health care from the government. And that's another thing is this vaccine is not free. It's subsidized literally by Big Pharma here in your country. You're not allowed to have commercials for medicine here in America. We can have commercials for Viagra for depression pills. It doesn't matter. So what I'm saying is in America, when a vial of when a vial of insulin is $200, but you can go to Canada or Mexico, both of our neighbors and buy it for $2. It shows you that we live in a system that is built to exploit the people that are most vulnerable. And I know that sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, when they give you something free, there's there's a meaning behind it. I don't want to get in the woods and say, oh, this is some sort of sterilization program. Oh, this is some sort of mass casualty thing. Because I don't necessarily think that's true.  But what I do know is true. I know that a normal vaccine would take nearly 10 years for it to get the actual authorization that it needs. And you're going to rush out multiple different companies and we can go into Johnson and Johnson has paid out so much money in their baby powder ovarian cancer thing. They gave out a product that caused people cancer.  See, that is not okay with me because they're able to use us as a guinea pig. And whether you like it or not, you can say it's not an experiment, but there's a control group, the people that didn't take it, and then there's going to people that did take it. And I'm telling you, with the never ending boosters, that's the slipper soap, even for the person like you that says you need the mandates. It doesn't make sense, because if I can still even a vaccinated person can still have they look in a vaccinated person's nose and they have the same viral load with the Delta virus as a person that is unvaccinated. So all the vaccine that they even admit this all the vaccine does is tries to help you from getting serious issues or getting hospitalized. And the constant breakthrough cases, even the CDC had to stop reporting the breakthrough cases, because it makes their narrative look bad.  It is a multinational company that can donate to all the politicians. That's why the right wing. That's why Donald Trump is crooked as a dog's hind leg. That's why he's trying to push the vaccine, because he's bought and sold by big pharma. Every single politician is bought by the political action committees. So you look at the companies that have the most power, the big oil, you look at big pharma, you look at the military industrial complex, and it's pretty clear that our system is not built. We should have socialized medicine. We don't. But the one time they are going to socialize the medicine, it's going to be to give us a free, a free vaccine that makes magnets stick to our arm that has no long term testing. And you're going to say in my own country, the most hypocritical thing ever that it's actually racist to show an ID to vote in a presidential election. Yet it's not racist to have to show an ID and a separate vaccine passport just to buy a banana at the grocery store. So we are living in the upside down world where I grew up reading the Constitution and nowhere in that Constitution. I know you're not America. Did it say that it all gets thrown away if there's a virus going around? There's over 600,000 deaths from heart disease in the United States a year. We don't mandate. Like I said, we don't mandate diet and exercise. The government doesn't care about our health. As a matter of fact, they want to keep us sick. So I can go to the countless people, Midwin Charles, Hank Aaron, the multiple people that have died from the vaccine. And of course, you know, the BBC host that just died from the vaccine, the BBC host died from vaccine. That's the last person I want to show. This is the BBC host, Lisa Shaw, one last screen share. Let me show you this and then I'll be done. So this is BBC radio host. Of course, I agree. Get out of here. BBC radio host Lisa Shaw died from brain hemorrhage after AstraZeneca vaccine coroner rules. So BBC radio presenter died from a brain hemorrhage after receiving the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine coroner's rule. Lisa Shaw, 44 died in May 21st, just over three weeks after receiving her first jab. She complained of severe headaches in the week following the injection. It became seriously ill a few days later. After the ruling, her family spoke of the terrible void left in their lives. She truly was the most wonderful mom, daughter, sister, and friend.  But yes, some kid lost his own mother because of that idea.  And that's just the collateral damage because it saves people in the long run. But all I'm saying is this, it should be personal choice.  So the idea that your vaccine doesn't work unless I get one is absolutely absurd. And that's the idea and that's the stupidity in the idiocracy that we're currently living under right now. You got it. Thanks for that opening, Alex, as well. Folks, I want to let you know our guests are linked in the description and we also want to let you know that we link our guests in the description box of the podcast episode as well. Folks, if you didn't know, we are on podcast. So see on the, you could say the big four, namely podcast addict, Apple podcasts, as well as Spotify and Google podcasts, all of them and all the little ones as well. I want to let you know you can find our both debates there and our guests linked in the description box of each debate. One last thing before we do go into open conversation. Folks, I know it's true. It's true. Sometimes we have some controversial topics on this channel. I want to remind you it's not your grandma's debate channel. Sometimes you'll be offended. Sometimes you'll be upset. And I want you to keep this in mind. Sometimes it's more so that, and this isn't pertaining to anything that was said tonight. I'm not trying to target anybody in particular, but it is true that we regularly have controversial debates. And the goal is that some of the views that you find offensive and the people that you might say, I don't want them to be able to come back on and say that, you know, whatever it is, I want to let you know. If you want that person to, you could say lose their influence in perpetuating their allegedly offensive or dangerous ideas or whatever it is, it's important that their followers are exposed to refutations of their arguments. And so that's why we do indeed host people that are controversial. And so I want to let you know, folks, it may make you uncomfortable, but nonetheless, there is a purpose for it. And so with that, we're going to jump into the open conversation. Thanks so much, gentlemen. The floor is all yours. Yeah, okay. So there was, yeah, there was quite a lot that was said there that I do kind of have to respond to. I think that the kind of the biggest one that we're kind of like start off with, at least, was the video that you show of yourself kind of going around to like different people and testing that coins aren't magnetized though. So like if you get like a fridge magnet or like an actual magnet. That was a magnet. Real quick to that one. No coin. That was a magnet. I used to. It was a magnet. Yeah, it was actual magnet. Yeah, okay. Well, it looked like a coin. But I mean, okay, so like, but here's the thing.    Like it's just, it's, it's, it's like, how would, how would it even do that? Like, like, honestly, I'm genuinely, I'm not trying to argue that. Ian, I'm not trying to argue with you on this. I just showed a video of me going and doing the experiment. Those are random people stuck on their arms. Now you can say that's not true, but You calling me Ian? I did. Yeah, I did. I thought it was Ian. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, but I'm not even I'm listening. You can argue that you can say it didn't stick around the wrong. But I'm telling you that's that don't don't believe me, guys. Don't believe that video. Don't believe even though I did that on multiple people, you can go on my channel, you can see it. YouTube won't let me play it.  But that's on my Instagram if you guys want to saw it. I'm just saying I didn't do that experiment.  And you can go look at magnets taking people's arms and there's thousands, literally thousands of other people doing that. And it's supposedly from the Moderna and I'm just saying there's an article in Japan that says they had to put throw the vials away because they contain contaminants. I'm telling you here in America, if those contain contaminants, nobody in the military is going to be like, Oh, this is a medal. They're just they're order followers everybody. So nobody's going to nobody would ever blow the whistle here in America on something like that because nobody's even smart enough to realize it so you can say that's fake. But I showed you I did it. They're magnets that stick to people's arms and may not stick to yours, but it did stick to theirs. I promise you that.  That's the summer here. But anyway, it's like this whole thing about like, so in the video you saw that like there was a lot of people in like, you know, like t shirts and like tank tops and stuff like that. It was quite obviously a hot day. People are going to be a little bit sweaty. People are going to be a little bit clammy. And look, take me as being like the stubborn Irishman, but that's genuinely the only explanation that I could give as to why a magnet is sticking to them. Aside from the fact that look, just if you could ignore that, you can, you know, cast that aside if you want to. Can you explain to me how a vaccine is making people magnetized because I genuinely love to know how that's even possible? Well, first of all, I'm not a scientist. I have no idea. But I mean, when you're dealing with stuff, you want to say microchipsy, that's a misdirection. They want to say microchips. A microchip is not going to fit in a needle. It would be some sort of nano chip. But I don't believe there is some sort of chip, but it would be nano technology and there is nano technology. So when that coagulates with blood, can that create some sort of new. Can you mix two minerals and make something? Is that that's called alchemy? Is that possible? Yes. Do how to do that? I don't know. I don't have a laboratory. I don't have people's blood. And I don't, I wouldn't even know where to start or how to explain why the people are magnetized. I'm just saying, don't believe me. You guys, I showed you the video. You can still disbelieve me, but go do your own bit of research.   It doesn't matter. Children, elderly people, it's sticking to people's arms. But we can even go past the sticking to people's arms. Let's get on a new point. So you guys do your own research on that. I want to talk about, you know that they even admit some people are going to get, I think they call it anaphylactic shock.  Well, I didn't know about the case that you brought up. So I mean, I can't really kind of talk about it in detail. It wouldn't be fair. It wouldn't be right only because I don't know all of the details. But yeah, if I was to guess, I would probably say that she's against vaccine mandates.  Although I like, okay, so the one thing that I would kind of have to say that is, yes, you know, the headaches kind of appeared. You had said it's like a side effect of the first or of the shock that she got. The first dose after AstraZeneca. Yeah. Is there so there's a little bit of a danger here that we're going into correlation and not causation. Well, they admitted it. The corner, the corner here, I'll put it in the chat. This is the mirror. No, the corner actually admitted the AstraZeneca vaccine cause it none here. It's one of the few ones they've actually, you know, said it because you can look into the VAERS, the VAERS report, the vaccine adverse reaction report. And there's there's been over 13,000 reported deaths yet the TV still tells you there's none. But here I want to send it in the chat. So this is the least a show article if you want to look at it in that know the corner actually did say that it was due to the AstraZeneca vaccine.  Let's see. I don't know if I need to pull it up again, but but I put it in the chat for anybody that needs to know that. I mean, that corner said that.  So I'll even give you that. Let's say the vaccine is safe and effective. But even for those few people, this is my problem. This is my problem, Steven. This is why if you got 100,000 people in a line and you gave each one of them an almond, somebody would get sick and die because an almond is not safe and effective for every single person a peanut if I was to give those 100,000 people if I was to give each of them a peanut somebody would have a adverse reaction. So when they say that a vaccine is one size fits all, that's impossible because not even an almond is one size fits all. So so listen, I get it if they were cool if they were cool with the you know, opting out of the vaccine vaccine exemptions, then I would be a little nicer. But that that's the problem is we get in a slippery slope of the mandates is once you make it so you have to get a vaccine to buy a banana when you know that it'd be like this. What would you what if every single person had to eat a handful of almonds before they went to the grocery store. It wouldn't make any sense and just saying and so it doesn't matter if it's safe and effective there's going to be somebody somewhere that's going to be allergic to it not knowing and die from it. So for that one person it's the same idea that I'm against the death penalty, not because people shouldn't be in fear if they murder someone that they're going to die. Because here in America we put people to death that were later found to be innocent. So if there's one person that is killed, and they were innocent in the whole program should be shut down. And for me, that is the same comparison if one person that dies from the vaccine, you know, unfairly, because they, you know, needed it for work because they needed to shop, and they died because of that. I think the whole program should be shut down now is that easy is that hard.  And that's where I that's where I really draw the line is my autonomy. I want my freedom, your vaccine shouldn't be affected whether I'm vaccinated or not. Yeah, okay, so there's a few things to kind of respond to there. So the whole thing about yeah so look, vaccines are technically technically speaking not one size fits all because there are people who have, you know, like preexisting health conditions there are like people who have a severely low or or weak immune systems that if they were to sort of like, like a vaccine added into that, you know, it could have damages, but the point is, is that that's not like, that's not necessarily a defeater, it would it would just be kind of if if at all possible, make it so that those few people don't get it and at some point, you know, like after heart immunity kicks in after a certain amount of the population is vaccinated and COVID eventually starts to go away that that you know that like problem will kind of solve itself. The whole thing about what you said about, you know, or that if I get a vaccine that it shouldn't be dependent on whether or not you have a vaccine to work. It kind of does though so I have the so I have, I'm now fully vaccinated as of literally today I got my second job last week. So, if there wasn't if there wasn't any sorts of you know other variants like the Delta variant, I'm pretty sure there's a new one now that I the name of it is escaping me. So I'm technically speaking immune from COVID, but that doesn't but if if there was a group of you and say 50 100 other people just like you. There is a chance so I don't I wouldn't get any of the kind of the like massively negative side effects from COVID but I can still carry it like and still pass it to you.   But that's the point though, because you can then give it to other people. So even though I don't get any of the massively negative side effects and I don't end up in hospital and I don't end up on a ventilator and I might not possibly die. You might or somebody that you're talking to might or somebody that in your family or a loved one or a friend, etc, etc. They might. So yes, the unvaccinated negative. You're saying that you're saying the unvaccinated, but see they chose but they're choosing the unvaccinated or choosing to be unvaccinated. So they're choosing to take that risk. It's like the same thing with I choose to ride a motorcycle here in America. It's more risky to ride a motorcycle. There's a lot of motorcycle deaths. You can choose it like so you're saying if you're vaccinated you're protective then then how is my how is me not being vaccinated. You even admit even if you're vaccinated, you can still spread the virus the same as an unvaccinated person. So the only thing the vaccine does is protect you from severe effects from the virus. Well then just let the unvaccinated dive in the virus and it shouldn't be mandated because what you're trying to do is you're trying to virtue signal. You're trying to protect other people that don't need protection that don't want protection. That's the whole problem with America is they take away your freedoms under the guise of safety and that's the problem. That's the slope dude. When we start with these variants and that's another thing is the more you vaccinate for people the more vaccine resistant strands of the virus is created. So I'm just saying I get it dude. I get like where you're coming from. I know you want to be. You don't. What I'm saying is I know you're trying to do the right thing. I feel like your heart is in the right place. But I just don't think the logic is there is my issue with you. And that's why I don't really have any beef because I do think and I think the people that want to other vaccinate people. I think in general you do want I guess you know better healthcare. But at the end of the day if it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus is the same person can spread the virus just as much as an unvaccinated person and a vaccinated person can spread the virus the same. If the vaccinated people have more severe effects than the unvaccinated then let the unvaccinated take that risk. It shouldn't like you said even your own logic doesn't necessarily affect your vaccine. And yes, viruses get spread but listen we've had SARS. We've had the bird flu other years where there was hundreds and thousands of deaths there, but it was a different political climate and they weren't able to politicize and that's the problem with me is we're getting in a situation where it's not about healthcare anymore.  Just look at how we handled the Afghanistan issue we're there for 20 years, and in five days we gave it back to the Taliban. Those are the same people that are organizing those shots as the same military that are in Dallas, Texas giving vaccines that have to stay under 76 degrees at all times at all times, yet I see them loading it in, loading it into a, a literal carport in a parking lot in Dallas, Texas when it's 100 degrees. Now I'm just saying, whether the vaccine is safe and effective, just the risk, the unnecessary risk of mandating something saying you can't work, you can't fly on a plane, unless you take this virus, that is taking away my autonomy, that is taking away my freedom, whether you call me a Q head or a Trump or I don't like Trump I'm just saying, I'm telling you, having personal freedom is very important because as soon as you give it up you never get it back. Yeah, okay, so there's a massive kind of issue I was I was probably going to bring it up but I was kind of waiting for you to make a couple of more examples before I actually kind of hit you with it. You're like, you're, you're way too focusing on personal health because personal health is different from collective health. So yes, it could be your decision that you don't want to get the vaccine and you're perfectly willing to accept any sort of negative side effects from it. But so if, if I hadn't made the choice that I don't want to get the vaccine right and that's my personal choice etc etc. I don't know if I was to carry COVID because I could be unsymptomatic I, you know, or you're like not symptomatic for the first two weeks anyway so I could be passing it on to someone that you know I know or that I love or even that I don't know. And I go and you know the the chances of them potentially getting severely injured or dying or anything else I know you're going to say that I'm virtually signaling again I really don't kind of think that I am or that's not at least how this is intending to come across.  They're like, no it's not no it's not that I like that like they have their own like rights to serve who they do and don't want to the whole kind of like Christian Baker case was a massive one I can't think of the phrase. The point is that they have that like they have the right to refuse service to whoever they want to I thought that you guys were supposed to be in favor of that so if a play so if you know an airline says hey you can come on to this plane if you don't have your vaccine I thought that you guys were supposed to be in favor of that. That's because you hear the fake news nobody likes that and you're going to hear that's the thing that's the problem with our media it's bought and sold by the people that you know by all the advertising for big pharma. Like that's the problem in your country they don't have big farm ads but here every literally every other commercial is a commercial for another drug lunesta depression sleeping medicine, a boner medication heart disease medicine I mean literally every freaking commercial so when you look at that that who is controlling the media and the narrative in the media and that's why CNN has the constant death scroller, because it's called trauma based mind control and I know that sounds crazy. I'm the conspiracy guy whatever but what it is when you repeat when you repeat that narrative that doom and gloom. It gives you the oppression globally that yes we want to be able to have a vaccine passport to fly on Delta Airlines but that's the farthest thing from the truth. Nobody actually wants this unless the people that are vaccinated now there are people that are vaccinated, but it's kind of the idea of like, you got the shot, you're in the club you're exclusive it's the identity politics that's the problem it's going back to not the health thing it's a political issue at least here in America. And so if you hear on the on the media that we want vaccine mandates to go to the grocery store. No that's one person on CNN saying that that's the but that is really where we're at in America where the divide is is are these mandates you know to go to school, managed to fly that is going to be I think you know the biggest issue facing our country in the next the next year for sure. I mean, look, I'm not going to defend anybody and mainstream media at all I don't watch it I don't care about it. It's yeah anyway. I mean, I guess one of the things that I can kind of respond to there but only because like I kind of like agreed with some of what you said. I mean, just bring in Medicare for all in the United States then and make it free like it is here. I agree. As yeah, as I've just said, you know, I like said it a number of times I'm fully vaccinated there's my vaccine passport. I didn't pay for it. But see that's the problem. But see like what I'm saying is if it's if it's if it's costing you know what I mean like if you guys are like being like charged for or like maybe not like right now but like few taxes or whatever like, you know, in the future.  Make it as easily accessible as you can. Yeah, well that we are paying for yeah the government's paying for it and actually is your yeah Pfizer reported their best quarter ever this past year. So I'm just telling you it's the pharmaceutical industrial complex is real now. I'm telling you, if this vaccine has been out for 10 years or something it's like the measles when you get the measles vaccine. You don't get the measles again when you get the chicken box vaccine you don't get the so you call this a vaccine yet you can still spread it so I don't necessarily. Maybe when they get a vaccine that's legit and I will never take a vaccine ever I'm just saying but maybe maybe when you and I in 10 years or whatever maybe they will have a vaccine that doesn't spread it. Then I actually never can you mandate it but that might make sense but the idea that we're this is my this is my problem is the timeline that's my point I'm trying to make. Dude it is so fast it is it is a business model it's the same reason that one of the biggest reservation companies called open table like if you want to get a reservation at a restaurant.  So that is the future it is literally medical tyranny in order to get a shot in your arm to participate in society is wrong and even your logic that your vaccine.   I don't know it's just kind of coming across a little bit weird. I mean life is risky. Well life is risky. I'm saying here in in America to we have horrible gun violence and actually looking at the gun violence a lot of it suicides to but I'm saying you know it's not safe here in America where I'm in a nice neighborhood in Dallas but there's people that have gunshots we have a horrible fentanyl and opiate problem. I've had multiple friends. I'm not saying this facetiously I've had multiple friends die of fentanyl opiate overdoses.  As a matter of fact I'm in the bellbomb business what they do is they have a real punitive private prison industry where we put people that are on drugs. You know in jail so listen we have a lot of fish to fry here in America and the fact that it's all focused on a vaccine it goes back to the Hegelian dialectic problem reaction solution big pharma always wanted you to take the flu shot. They've been doing this for years and now they finally got their teeth dug in us and now they got you taking the vaccine you without the FDA approval and now they got boosters every six months. So here in America is for profit businesses this isn't a nonprofit business visors are for profit business they are going to never ending have a government subsidized vaccine program but yet the same person that's a drug problem can't go to free mental health clinic a person that's a diabetic doesn't get free diabetes medicine a person that's heart disease doesn't get a free you know heart transplant or you know heart bypass that's not how it works we don't get anything free the only thing you get free is a vaccine and that should be an alarm in itself.  What are the last things that you said in the. What are you saying. Oh sorry sorry go ahead. Was. I mean the vaccine can't be out for 10 years I mean like kind of like obviously because COVID hasn't been out for 10 years, but it like so COVID is a variation of the of the SARS virus which people have been studying for more than a decade. It didn't just kind of like pop out of absolutely like nowhere. Like it was you know what I mean like it was. Yeah this this stuff has been studied for quite a long time. I don't I don't really kind of like nowhere to kind of go with it. I mean, one of the things that you would said was that the vaccine isn't 100% effective yeah but like it was never claimed to be 100% effective in fact that the like most of it was said for a little while was that it was going to be 80% effective and it's actually not it's actually higher than that. It's like what is it 92 93 possibly 95 I've heard somewhere depending on the like actual brand of the vaccine that you get the point is it was never claims to be 100% effective. We already knew what the like effects of the vaccine was going to do that it was going to make your symptoms if you do get COVID after because of course there are breakthrough cases although they are incredibly rare that like your symptoms were going to be much much less that you won't have to have to be hospitalized. This is just, I don't know if I don't really know where to you can kind of respond to that I guess. Okay, so I want to respond because you're just saying that you're less likely to get it let me do one screen share. This is an Israel the most vaccinated country in the world is Israel, and right now they're having the worst sprout of COVID they've had so far so COVID cases are rising and highly vaccinated Israel, but it doesn't mean that Israel should give up and live with the virus so I don't even care about this whatever they're talking about that I'm just saying Israel is one of the highest COVID vaccination rates in the world having fully vaccinated 78% of people 12 years and older. Many people are surprised that the country's resurgence of COVID cases since restrictions were lifted in June, Israel's vaccination rate is similar to Australia's, you know, start relaxing program so what I'm saying is Israel, and one of the most vaccinated people is having their biggest surge so far of the pandemic so it's clear that these vaccines don't work and that they might actually be causing the vaccine resistance strands of the virus that's causing all the issues because you say there's no long term testing. Yeah, maybe they've been studying SARS and maybe they've done a MRNA vaccine, you know, in testing or whatever, but we don't know they haven't had, we haven't had 10 years of data on that and you say they've been doing it for 10 years but this is different this is a they're trying to let's say there's 7 billion people on earth they literally want to give this to 7 billion people and it goes back to the almonds if you gave 7 billion people every single one of them and almond or made all of them eat a peanut. They're going to die so these people don't care they know people are going to die and they still think they're doing the right thing so like I said, even the places that are most vaccinated have high cases so the vaccine doesn't even work so how can you mandate something that doesn't work that's that's really where you lose me you know even if it worked if there are stats and they can show me fake stats, even the stats they give us it shows that it's not working. So, I don't 100% know this I would only kind of wager to guess that the reason why COVID cases in Israel and in other countries are like starting to kind of go up is because of different variants is because of the delta variant because the vaccine is less effective against the delta variant. And the reason that that is happening is because people who were not socially distancing who are not wearing masks who are not staying inside, who are breaking all of the COVID rules who are not getting vaccinated now that they are going out and they are spreading and as we know when a virus travels from person to person to person eventually it will, it will mutate and that is what is happening now with the delta variant and the delta variant is more severe than the original variant of COVID and the newest one after that which name is again escaping me is even more deadly than the delta. So the more the more variants of COVID that we get the more deadly that is going to be which means that the cases are going to shoot up and that the death rates are also going to shoot up so the the argument goes goes back to my position of make sure or try to get absolutely everybody that it is not risk of verse to get them vaccinated to stop the spread of the of the of COVID anyway but also to stop the amount to stop the the different variants of this coming out so that people don't die you and I are aligned on that we don't want people to die we don't want all these cases to to go up so it should be pretty obvious to come to my position to make sure that everybody is vaccinated so that this doesn't happen. But you even say you said that you just said it doesn't stop the spread and then they're saying it stops the spread so which one is it it's significantly it significantly reduces the spread to spread out disagree and Israel the places that are most highly vaccinated are the ones that are having the rise in cases because they're vaccinated against the original version but not against the delta variant because that's why you need boosters exactly well that's what I'm saying the vaccine creates vaccine resistant strands because everybody's vaccinated that's why the delta was able to survive that's the only thing that makes sense that's all and so this is the first virus that's getting stronger viruses usually get weaker so I'm not saying this escape from a lab I don't know how you know it's because it mutated yeah but viruses don't mutate stronger they mutate weaker that's and that's naturally known viruses mutate weaker they don't mutate stronger that's a fact in history and normally I mean you can look that up mutate you mutations of viruses usually get weaker that's a common scientific analysis to say. Yeah okay so I don't. I'm not going to say that you're necessarily wrong there only because I don't like I don't I don't say things that I'm not 100% sure of but that just doesn't sound correct to me that vaccines mutate weaker not stronger. Just really kind of hit me right. Well that's why they're trying to make a gain of function that's what they're trying to create in the lab supposedly that's what's out to you that's just what they say that that's what they're doing testing is that they're trying to make a virus that gets stronger as it goes on. And so, you know in the history of viruses maybe there is a virus that can get stronger maybe this is that one, you know, caveat or that one. I can do it but generally I'm pretty sure 95% sure viruses mutate weaker they don't mutate stronger because people get antibodies people get whatever natural immunity to it, but when you throw in the synthetic you throw in the, the, like the vaccine, it's going to create new strands and I just. Look at the stats, look at the places that are most vaccinated in their cases are going up so it doesn't stop the spread.  We spread it just the same so we should be able to sit next to the we both should be able to go. You're protected if you get the virus. I'm not. That's my risk, I should be able to choose. I mean, do you do you believe in like, you know, being able to ride a motorcycle do you believe in and you know how much do you believe in some personal liberties, at least. Yeah, of course. You're smoking. Okay, this is what I.  Yeah, this is this is what I'm saying though, it is the difference between personal health and collective health. It is my personal. So, okay, here's the thing.   It doesn't make the advice or the statement any less true. It just means that he himself is taking that personal risk to, you know, negatively impact his own health. The point is, if you go on a motorcycle, right, there are like, obviously massive kind of health risks to that you could crash because you don't have any kind of metal around you. There's a significant chance that you could, you know, like injure yourself if not die. That is a risk that you take every single time that you get on a motorbike. The point is that that is just your personal health that you're impacting in the vast majority of cases. I'm sure that you can pull up something that says, Well, no, this guy who was on a motorcycle and he crashed and then he, I don't know, he like rough and tumbled and then he locked over an older lady and she died. Right. I'm sure that you could do that. But in the vast overwhelming majority of the cases, if a person on a bike crashes, it's usually only his personal health that is being impacted. But that is not the case with COVID. So if you are vaccinated against COVID, the potential for you to spread it because that only happens if you actually get COVID, which you are 95% chance that you're not going to. Because only in that 5% chance if you do get get COVID that you then can spread it to someone else. That's like, that's the difference. It's a significantly reduced chance of you spreading it to someone else if you are vaccinated versus on vaccinated. Well, I'm just saying there's a lot of stuff saying that, you know, there's tons of breakthrough cases and the number you said 95% effective. I've heard numbers of 66 I've heard 33 I've heard it's wanes after six months or you have no protection after six months. So listen, I don't know what the numbers are but I just know that it's you're hearing so much information you're hearing information from the CDC this you're hearing Fauci this you're hearing this has a mercy euthanization this is FDA approved. Johnson and Johnson is there's so much mangled garbage like what I'm saying, it's so dispersed and it's not uniform enough. Right now it is not and I'm not saying there should ever be a mandate but this right now we're in an actual cluster fuck. This is not a uniform medicine where you can prescribe it to 7 billion people and that's exactly what they're trying to do they're trying to make it so I can't go on an airplane I can't go to a Las Vegas Raiders football game.  But if you're not vaccinated, you can get the shot there at the stadium and go into the game, knowing that the shot doesn't even give you a protection for two weeks. So it's not about health you don't care you're those people can still spread it the same as an unvaccinated person because the vaccine doesn't even work. So what it's going on it's illogical the idea here in America is they they got to you know they make you wear a mask to go to the grocery store.  That's not and if there's you know this deadly virus. Let's just be real. That's not going to actually protect you I mean and I believe that there's a high, there's a high possibility of bacterial pneumonia. I think you can argue that a mouth is an exhaust and that you know wearing a mask over and over is actually bad for your health and you know you can dispute that but I think that to be the case. And so these mask mandates were just the they were the beta testing for the vaccine mandates. And that's the thing is it's going to be constant boosters are going to they're going to totally take away all of our ability to travel even they're already talking about going state to state you know going from Texas to Louisiana without a vaccine proper vaccination for the flu for a virus that is a 99.9% survival rate if you're under the age of I think 74 years old and on top of that, I believe the average age for coronavirus death is 81 years old. The average age for all cause morbidity is 78 years old so you actually live three years longer through to dive the coronavirus so you know what I saying that I hope that I dive the coronavirus and live so I'm 81 one day I'd be lucky. Yeah, the whole thing about the like COVID having yet that the like massive chance of survival. Yeah, that's COVID like okay so God this is going to take so long to kind of go over it's okay.  So if you already have a weakened respiratory system and then get attacked by specifically a respiratory disease your chances of dying skyrocket in the same sense as I can't even think of an example off the top of my head quick enough so we'll just move on.  So, I know you're saying but this is what this is my this is my point. You're right you know people that are susceptible and older more vulnerable to a respiratory illness people dive pneumonia this and that. But this is the problem with me is they even say the CDC says of the whatever 600,000 coronavirus test on average had 3.7 co morbidities. So does that mean they died from COVID or does that mean they died with COVID because listen, if you're 500 pounds. If you're 500 pounds and you can't breathe that well already and you get COVID. That's a death sentence I agree I think you know have a respiratory illness when you're heavy and that's another thing you got to look at the you look at the breakdown of the people that died. I think I believe I believe don't quote me on this. It's over 70% were considered obese of the people that died and I think all of them I think I think it's like 99% of the people that died from COVID virus say you know quote me on this look this up have low vitamin D. I'm saying fat people that don't go out in the sun and don't exercise at all dying is not uncommon here in the United States or 600,000 deaths with heart disease. So these people are vulnerable they want to get their emergency shot, whatever you notice you look on Instagram everybody that takes a selfie with their is about 300 pounds and not everybody but I use like a lot of people that because that's a way that you don't have to lose weight to look healthy all you have to do is you can be 500 pounds but you take a selfie their vaccine card and all of a sudden now you look like a beacon of health because here in America, if you bring your vaccine card to Krispy Kreme you get two free donuts.  This is this was my last screen share the night. But this is this is how much they care about your health here in America is the number one donut franchise Krispy Kreme is now giving their customers to free donuts I don't know if you can read that if you can see that maybe I'll make myself smaller. But yeah so this is this is all about when they when they're giving you free healthcare, when they're bribing you they're giving you $100 or giving you free French fries or giving you free tacos to get this vaccine. It just seems like an insult to anybody that has like a little bit of integrity I mean you're just going to literally sell out for two donuts. That's what they think about us that's how smart they think we are that's a good indication of how they treat us as a population because it's it that's the last thing you got to remember a government is a management control system. They want to be able to manage and control us so they're going to constantly repeat the narrative. It's safe and effective even though they know that some people are going to have an allergic reaction. It's the same idea of the death penalty, putting somebody to death. That was innocent so because of that because of that caveat I say there shouldn't be one innocent person that dies from a vaccine that they had to get to fly on a plane or to work at you know the Amazon warehouse delivery guy.  That is cataloged and it is recorded and it is also predicted. So if you go back to like if if we could get in a time machine go back to 2015. There would be the you know predicted amount of people that would die in 2016 and in 2017 from things like heart disease from things like asthma etc etc etc. That was also done the end the middle of 2019 so it was predicted that X amount of people were going to die from all of these things in 2020. If you look at the amount of things that like people have died from in 2020 because obviously COVID was you know massive then the numbers have like have dramatically increased and if you look at then the the you know recorded deaths from COVID. Those those numbers like they like add up exactly like well not exactly obviously there's going to be a little bit of of variation but it is within the margin of of error those numbers from COVID exactly match up again exactly match up with the amount with the like excess amount of from these these things so yeah it's not necessarily that like COVID is like if you get COVID that that is specifically what is killing you but they the things that COVID does to your body even even if you are like like so I don't have asthma I don't have like high blood pressure I don't have like heart disease any any of those things but I was a smoker I'm now vaping but I was a smoker for a long time. If I had a got COVID I was maybe not like fucked the extent that like you know that other people were but I was probably going to be in hospital on event later I was going to be very very ill. Because if you have any of these things that COVID massively hits. That's what's causing the deaths it's not specifically COVID itself but COVID is response so if that person didn't get COVID would they still be alive quite possibly there was going to be in an amount of people every year that are going to die from these things but if they hadn't got COVID would they still be alive. Most probably yes and that's why these deaths are are classed as COVID related deaths. Well I can see you know and I can see that you know if you are you have these pretty existing conditions. But that's where it goes back to like personal responsibilities those people chose to eat hamburgers I'm not against it you know I love I don't need me but I'm saying you know I love to party pizza everybody should be able to go to the buffet. But I'm saying those are personal choices that made them more susceptible to this virus now I get it dude. Listen I like this I like this argument they always say it's like the vaccine is like a seatbelt it doesn't stop you from getting an accident, but it just makes sure you don't die you don't get messed up as much. But see that's the that's that's my whole point I'll even give you that. So I'm choosing so it shouldn't be mandated I'm taking my own risk. And in this is this is I had to do the last is I know I said this is my last screen share, but Spiro sent me this and this is one of the best. This is that bombshell study I was looking at this is the last time I'll share actually this is this is out of Israel this is the study is looking for bombshell study finds natural immunity superior to vaccination if the findings are confirmed the implications of COVID policy will be profound a major study conducted by Israel researchers into natural muni it's found that immunity acquired the infection from COVID-19 is superior to the immunity from the Pfizer vaccine so this goes back to this is that this is the perfect idea the vaccine here in America we have a a my sharing. Oh, did you did you see this. Oh, shoot. Sorry, sorry, this is a this is last thing on the show bombshell study finds natural immunity superior to vaccination a major study conducted by Israel Israeli researchers into natural immunity has found that the immunity acquired via infection from COVID-19 is superior to that of the Pfizer vaccine so. I'm just saying this is the flu yes it's going to kill some people but I had a friend in college that got SARS and got really messed up from SARS and this isn't this isn't 2012. He was on a ventilator he almost died.    That's, I'll even give it that a business can can do that, but the idea that a government or that you know I can't go on a plan or I can't travel internationally because I don't want to take a vaccine that is not even FDA approved. That is should be illegal and that violates the Nuremberg code which is an international law. And that's where we should stand up and there's a lot of people standing up you know in Ireland I don't know how the protests are but people are protesting all over the country. And those people aren't as crazy as you think that there's actually some pretty smart people that are part of those protests and there's doctors this is that last thing I want to say that prescribe ivermectin that prescribe any other sort of treatment other than the vaccine other than the vaccine if they say there's any other reasonable cure to the vaccine or you know preventative measure. That's literally here in the United States it's illegal and there's doctors that have been arrested for doing that. So that should be a big red flag. Yeah, okay so I mean the kind of smoking example that you use in pubs I mean it kind of on ironically goes in my favorite though. That's what I'm saying that that's what I was saying I'm saying that's that that's the argument that people use but that argument is what I'm saying it's just absurd in my opinion, because it different you can go smoke outside you just can't smoke in the bar. Are you okay sorry so I don't want to put words in your mouth or argue against the position that you don't hold. Are you saying that like you disagree with the findings that if you smoke indoors that it can like that passive smoking is a thing and can lead to. I'm saying no that could but I'm saying they're different a vaccine I'm saying a mandatory vaccine and smoke smoking me puffing the cigarette and me just walking in a restaurant is totally different but they're trying to that's the illogical that's what they say Dr. Leanna when he's like the representative for CNN is not number one medical health expert that's the two comparisons she said she says we outlawed smoking and bars, and that we have seatbelt laws that don't necessarily protect you from getting an accident but they protect that's your argument that's your side argument, but what I'm saying is that's comparing apples and oranges. Yeah if I'm blowing a cigarette in your face. That's different than me existing and living there is there has to be some sort of risk we take to survive like if I go to a bar. I might bump into somebody I might touch somebody that the idea of social distancing and being six feet away and all that. None of that actually makes sense it's not actually based in reality. They can even there's a look at Denmark you look at a lot of places that didn't shut down their cover cases are fine. And so the idea that social distancing, you know prevents the spread of this virus, or that I'm the same me walking and just breathing is the same as me smoking a cigarette. That's you smoking that vape and you not smoking is totally different it's two different things to prepare them and say that the same thing is is idiotic in my opinion. I mean, like, okay, so the reason why like places like Denmark didn't kind of shut down in this to the same extent that I mean like even Ireland or the US didn't is because they were like heavily obeying the social distancing rules that they didn't shut down because the COVID cases were like at a level where the government decided that it was okay to keep businesses open. But I mean like you would you would kind of ask about like what like Ireland's kind of like stance on the whole like protests and stuff like that is Ireland had set out a goal that by the middle of September that they were like going to achieve this they've actually already achieved it was 92% of the country is vaccinated. It's I'm pretty sure it's at least at the top three it might actually be. I had heard somewhere I don't know how true this is it might be false but I had actually heard that we're like number one in the world, in the case of like the amount of percentage of the population that is vaccinated.  Do you all mandate Stephen? So we have vaccine passports and the like country was shut down for like months on end. But you have to I'm saying do you have to use a passport no I want to hear I didn't mean to cut you off that I'm saying like do you have to have a passport to go to shop or to go to like the UK if you want to travel to the UK. To shop to shop. No, it's as far as I know, you don't have to shop you do have to have to have to wear a mask so there are mask mandates. If you want to go into a pub if you want to go into a restaurant or if you want to travel. Yes, you do have to have your cover pass. Well, so restaurants and pubs you have to show your proof of vaccination. If you want to travel you can either show that you have the vaccine passport or when you are leaving the country and then re-entering the country you have to have a COVID test. See I and listen, I get it that you know you think that that protects you but I'm telling you, even if you get the virus given 99.9% survival rate if you're not obese and if you're not over I think I believe if you're under the age of 24. It's like a 90 I mean there's only been like less than 100 deaths they even accounted to go but I believe of people under 24 I could be wrong about that but it's a disease that is if this is the thing. It's not necessarily affected by it, but there are young people they admit that it causes myocarditis which is heart enlargement in young people and that's that's even say they even put a warning on that they even suspended the Johnson and Johnson for a little bit because of the myocarditis warning, but they actually say oh well it's going to cause that but it's only going to cause it in a few people so it's worth the mitigating risk, because at the end of the day the vaccine is going to protect more people than the few people that were sacrificed. The problem here in America is like we sacrifice soldiers, we don't care we just throw people in the meat grinder here in America. It is like they give you the if you think here in America at some you know cakewalk and the government cares about us. They don't we should have I'm not even anti socialism and like I said I like the socialized medicine there's some things I think the government should subsidize, but here in America, the only thing they subsidize is the free vaccine which is a big red flag. I mean, okay so I can I can I can understand like why they kind of like would because you know that the government is trying to kind of say that like you know like this is like a severe thing in the sense that you know that there's been all these shutdowns there's been all these lots of businesses there's been all these lots of lives and stuff like that so I can understand why they're doing it. Like you know why they're making the vaccine free. Yeah, no I like totally get what you're saying though I think that like it should be expanded to everything that like you know if you have if you have diabetes that yeah like you shouldn't be spending like what is it like $600 like a vial of insulin that's absolutely just insane. This kind of went into an also agreeing on health care and not disagreeing on the mandates though so point of agreement you know it's a bit nice but yeah I don't know what I'm saying is Disagreement to respond to that so I'm saying I think we should I think you're probably taking into the questions and listen to even take your vaccine get vaccinated every booster shot I you know like this I hope government give you two for free I hope the government subsidize it I don't care how much money buys it cares I just don't want to have to take it I want to have my autonomy I just don't I You can do it I don't want to do it you can get a you can go cut your dick off you can trans you can transition to a female you can do anything I'm saying I'm pro that I'm not against anything I'm like want you to have the utmost freedom I'll even give you a special bathroom to urinate in I'm willing to do that but at the end of the day I want to have my autonomy so I think we just you know I think we're at a good point James or the questions but I know you're the moderator but I feel like we're going back with the same stuff over now you got it we will jump into the Q&A Stephen any last thoughts give you a chance to draw together maybe about 30 seconds same way Alex just drew together the threads from this debate yeah no I would I would just kind of say look at this has been an incredibly healthy debate I didn't have to shout at you which I was I'm not going to lie I've seen you in past debates I thought it might have to happen but I'm glad it didn't you know so yeah like I am yeah I don't I don't really have anything else to kind of say about the course of the debate I do however James just a small tiny little request I am I am desperate to use the bathroom so if you could ask Alex any questions and I'll be back as soon as I possibly can and I also have some announcements folks this is interesting if you're in the live chat check this out we currently have a poll up and we have always 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said oh yeah well luckily reschedule I thought it was canceled at first but go ahead I'm excited to do I'm excited to do ever since you made the debate I've been watching those videos and he has a bunch of juicy stuff he's like gone after a bunch of bodybuild he's created a lot of drama so I'm really excited to debate he pushes the envelope he's got a very juicy fun channel I have to say I kind of like that I get a kick out of it but long story short we're trying to schedule that for next week and so we are looking forward to it but I want to let you know not only was Alex flexible but Steven was also over flexible and that Steven is both he was willing to debate this topic which he he was like wow it's not a ton of prep time I'll try but also we're so thankful that Steven right now do I understand right that it's two in the morning there yeah two two two fifteen yeah oh my so Steven thanks so much for staying up late with us you my dear friends I am so thankful that we're all here right now live viewers it's always fun everything live it's just a little bit more exciting and don't get me wrong it's fun when it's not live but it's kind of like music or sports or classes when it's live it's just a little bit more engaging so let's jump into those engaging questions this one coming in from you named it one eight eight I'm telling says thanks modern a debate I'm sure this is going to be amazing there's no doubt about that it certainly has been amazing and I'm really excited so thanks so much amazing this one coming in from Steven scenes as jab me daddy jab me so good okay enjoy prison Stephen the nasty guy he also says boost me baby okay boy oh boy we also have one eight eight eight I'm telling saying is cider a fan of tiny hats I feel like that like should be a euphemism or something but I don't get it I think that's anti-semitic I think that is it really yeah okay I did not know that so one eight eight I'm telling seriously if that is anti-semitic we're going to have to block you so I don't know what was the name of the person what was the name anything one eight eight I'm telling but I want to let you know that sounds like that sounds like a troll that was it that's I mean I'm not that wasn't one of my audience and to promise you that same rules I don't think so folks if there's any sort of hate speech we've always had this rule we've got to block you without warning we follow the terms of service and you're like oh you're you're so loyal to YouTube is like well YouTube has helped us grow I mean they recommend our videos like crazy and so yeah we follow the terms of service because we don't want to cut you could say the metaphorical branch of our channel growth we don't want to cut that branch on which we're sitting on by James you don't want to be racist it's all you have to say everybody knows that we don't want to say mean stuff about very different races. Next up Steven Steen thinks very much of your nasty question says all of them one eight eight I'm telling all of them oh they say because that was in response to their question which was how many booster shots you're working to take over their Steven Steen. Steven Steen wants as many as he can get and the Batman says I'm offended by Alex and other speakers and you can host them but you should censor their harmful language or ideas I'm a little bit skeptical because usually I feel like you agree with Alex but if I remember if you're the same person but if in case you're serious. People get hot and cold in these games they might agree with me one minute and then they hate me on something next you never know. I was just going to say was that the Batman or Mr. Batman. No not Mr. Batman. Alright I was just going to say that does not sound like him. I do want to let you know folks though hey I already explained it we let people on here sometimes who are offensive or controversial or you know according to some they have problematic views which to be honest I think when people use the word problematic they usually sound like some sort of pencil pusher. But the idea is if you think they're dangerous ideas or you think they're offensive is our goal is hey we're on a rescue mission we want those people we want their viewers if they really have dangerous ideas we want their viewers to be exposed to refutations of the dangerous ideas. And you my dear friends this one they say you should censor their harmful language or ideas. Well do you think that our goal of getting them to come on here so that we can have their allegedly dangerous ideas exposed. Do you think that our goal is going to work if we censor them when they get out if we censor them they don't feel like they have any autonomy. They don't come on and that's by the way that's actually very grounded in theory I could talk about that.  Well that's for me I agree I mean sadly it until we refuse it it's like in Paris you can look it up there all the people are eating outside of the restaurant. Let me show you this Paris eating outside of the vaccine restaurant look at this this video is crazy. Shoot where is it Paris eating outside they're having a picnic. Well in Paris you can look it up the people went outside and had a picnic outside of all the mandated vaccine places so that's the only way that we're going to send the message is if you do the civil disobedience not where the mask go against it because a lot of people are just going to go with the flow. Yeah because they don't they don't care or they just want to they don't even want to think and that's the problem is a lot of people just don't even want to think for themselves. Gotcha and thank you very much for this question. Illiterate no vax says mass non no we got that one. Contrary in 420 says what's the LD 50 of the vaccines why can't I find this basic piece of important data. Was that for me I didn't hear. I think it's for Stephen. Yeah I was just going to say I'm not that LBP though it was they said the L. D 50. LD 50. Yeah I'm I'm I'm not 100% familiar with what you're talking about. So I can't. I can't comment intelligently about it. Unfortunately. Okay let me get one last screen share and I keep on saying that but I want to show this this is this is goes to the disobedience. This is what we got to do so this is in Paris outside of the vaccine mandate places. All the people went there and they decided to just just you know all the restaurants there that you have to have a vaccine password so this is the civil disobedience to show them. All these people went and you know how to picnic out instead of eating at the restaurant. Now I know this is kind of really these restaurants you know probably their business is hurting but this is the type of message you have to send to people because if you don't do this to sort of mass civil disobedience I mean we're screwed. Nobody's ever going to stand up for themselves and we're just literally screwed. Literally screwed. Thank you very much for that one. This is coming from literally injected.  Tranquillo. Thanks for your question says line up both of these bills against the wall. Oh my gosh. Okay.  We're both baited. We're both dying because that probably because we like socialized medicine.  This one coming in from Brian Williamson says viruses evolve to become less deadly because the more deadly strains kill the host and end transmission. That's probably what I was trying to quote but I don't know if that's necessarily true. Yeah. I don't I don't necessarily disagree that that is like been the case. However, all of the like evidence that and the like data that is there on COVID is that the more that the virus spreads and the more that it mutates is causing deadlier variance of COVID. I mean, like you that's I'm just like I'm not presenting my opinion there. I'm presenting the right the findings the evidence and the data from the science. So I mean you can disagree with it if you want to that's totally up to you. You know, I mean, like, of course, that's a personal freedom.  You can disagree with the science if you want to that to debate for a different day. That's that's the that's the whole point though is that for me is like you can disagree with it but I believe the vaccine causes the vaccine resistant variants like that. That's personally what I'm just saying when I look at it and I look at the Delta variant the Delta variant didn't rise into the vaccine became prevalent. So for me, you can say that it's this new thing that just came out of nowhere came from India personally just from the same data that you're looking at. I conclude that that is a vaccine resistant strand that came from people being vaccinated and still being able to spread a virus that you know obviously the vaccine killed the version that they had so it's being able to spread this new mutated version. And so their vaccine is actually causing in my opinion. You got it and yes for all the people though who the continual pressure is a sometimes I see it chat and by the way sometimes I pardon me both Steven and Alex I'll make this so fast. But I have to say sometimes when people say all that you know the modern day to date chat is toxic. It's so toxic. Well first of all I'm like well that was like really I say that I say that and it's not that toxic but I just kind of say that to be extra precautious. Is I always say are you really going to generalize that much because I agree it's like sometimes we have a person wander in and they say something nasty and we got to ban them. But I have to say most of the people are actually tremendous. And the other thing is this. I wonder often times I think that toxic means they disagree with me. 100% that's right. Yeah. Let me debate you James. I'm saying I always say the chat's toxic it's really not that toxic since I'm always going against the majority of the people. So that's why it feels toxic. So that's probably why when I say that it's because I'm usually most everybody's disagreeing with me. So it's not even that they're necessarily rude.  I think well I appreciate that but yeah my thought is whether a person be like it's usually the extreme political either left or right. It's usually the extremists will say oh that's that's a toxic and it's like well by toxic you mean there are people in the chat that disagree with you and you don't want them to be able to express that because in your own live chats I'm serious I've seen a lot of live chats folks. I've seen a lot of people feel like they have to walk on eggshells because if they disagree or they say something they just get banned. I remember somebody told me I'm not going to name the channel. I'll tell you it's a popular channel though and it's a lot like us is someone said that one time in the live chat someone commented and said that one of the debaters they said that that guest looks sleepy. They look like they're bored. Boom. Band. That's it. Oh my goodness they just crossed the line. So I mean if you you could say that Alex looks sleepy here. That's fair game. Yeah. But next up. Thanks very much for your question. This one coming in from a long story short says no no we got that Brian Williamson says if you have asthma and you get the flu and die. That's asthma death. If you have asthma and die of covid that's a covid death. See the hypocrisy. Is that true Stephen. I don't necessarily know that like the flu would kind of like impact your health to the same degree that covid would. Like it might hit you a little bit harder. Like you might be like you know you might be on bed rest for like an extra day or two if you get the flu when you have asthma.  If you get the flu you're not going to be in hospital for it. So it's it's yeah it's it's just a lot more dead like more deadly if you have covid or if you get covid and you have asthma. Well speaking of the flu the flu is like nonexistent now as I think it's a little fishy if you don't mind me saying. Well I mean yeah because social distancing and masks work. But see you actually believe the flu is went away. See I just believe that you know we have PCR tests that they even say if they run in 40 cycles it's always going to have a false positive. Carrie Mullis the inventor of it you can actually look at footage of him saying that it is not sufficient in diagnosing an illness that they use it for the HIV test they've been using the PCR test for a while. And now that they actually thrown away the test now I think in a few months you can't even use the PCR test legally. So that's the problem is like you got all these bunk PCR tests and those are probably people that just had the flu and didn't actually have the severity of the actual covid 19. You got it and thank you very much. This one coming in from Patrick Lowinger am I saying it right let me know Patrick says Alex didn't the Israeli study actually state that natural infection plus a single dose of Pfizer vaccine provides greater immunity. Why did you misrepresent the findings. That's not what it said that's not what it said it said the unvaccinated with covid 19 and didn't say with one shot go back and read it. This one in from thanks so much from the old Twitch chat folks if you didn't know we're live on Twitch every time we're live on YouTube both of are actually live. Brooks Chavis this came from Twitch chat. Thank you very much for your question says Alex if you don't want to get it then don't make videos telling people not to get it. You should you what is it you should like a transphobe and trans women's abortion rights also right. Or they're saying you should you should like I'm pro trans I think people should be able to transition I'm fine with that I don't I don't even care if they if you're in the military the government can pay for it I don't care. But let's say dude I don't even want to come across as telling people what to do I don't that women says that yeah I have videos that are you can consider anti but at the end of the day people are going to get it I know people that I work with and hear me say all day talk you know they hear all the bad things they say about it.  Go get the vaccine I think Uber will give you a free ride there if you download the Uber app. I just wanted to say just like very very very quickly there's like so I have your live chat kind of on like on a separate monitor I'm kind of like glancing every every kind of known again there's someone in live chat I can't think of his username because it's it's after school in a class but he keeps like typing into chat every time that I start rocking on my chair.  What's wrong with rocking chair? I didn't even notice that.  I rock the whole time I guess but is it a rocking chair are you in a rocking chair? Yeah it's a rocking chair.  You can't not rock if you're in a rocking chair. I don't know but okay we're not here to debate the chair I like rocking chair. We'll jump into the next one thanks so much for your question this one coming in from logical plausible provables super chat deleted oh that felt really good but John same rules even if it's a super chat you can't insult somebody he said but to be fair he owned it he says my bad dot dot dot dot. Me by Jimbo. You're allowed to I give them permission to insult me James you can insult me I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't even think it was that bad.  Why did he keep calling us the same? We're arguing when they came out saying they were going to kill us both we're both betas even I am a little bit of a soy boy but what the fudge? I mean this is a weird audience tonight James. Yeah I don't know. John has a weird obsession with hating me anyway sorry yeah. Extra juicy and this one coming in from thanks very much for your question. John Trump says just wanted to show support to modern day debate. Thanks so much for your support my dear friend says I'll support mandated vaccines the day the government is more competent than a shovel. That's fair. I'll say that entirely again. Well they said they said they would they would be for vaccine mandates if our government was so incompetent. See that's another point I want to make though like I don't know the government of Ireland very well but I'm telling the United States government is so incompetent and I'm not even anti-Jobani I don't want him to get impeached I think that'll make our country look even worse and that's probably an unpopular opinion I'm just saying the people that run our country are not that smart they give you the impression that they're smart but they're elected officials that are bought and sold like toilet paper. Oh juicy this one coming in from made by Jim Bob says Cider dude are you aware of what the Nuremberg code is. Yeah I'm aware of what it is but I mean that there are like as I said in my opening there has been like court cases to do with specifically this issue and like you know I mean you can disagree with the decision of the court you can not like it that's totally up to you there I'm sure you know like there are people in the audience who are anti-abortion who don't like roll the weight that's a court case that you disagree with it's just the same thing.  Slytherin I like it I like it just interest. Amazing so. Steven do you have anything to say? What was the chat again I'm so I'm so sorry. They said there there's a reason why we don't no that's not it's basically the government shouldn't mandate the vaccines and we don't live on a globe is I think that I mean you know the gist of it. They shouldn't mandate the vaccine because we don't live on the globe. No no no I don't think the globe I don't need to do that I don't know I maybe.  Well that that brings up a good point so do you know Steven about the Tuskegee syphilis experiment did you ever learn about that. No, not at least on name anyway. Okay let me let me show you this Tuskegee syphilis I always say this is my last one but let me do the Wikipedia of this this just so people know like this is one of the worst things and this is done by the CDC. Let me let me do this one screen. This is this is really important for people. So here in America the reason we have trust issues is the Tuskegee timeline in 1932 the US PHS which was like the CDC at the time working with the Tuskegee Institute began a study to record the natural history of syphilis it was originally called the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male. Now referred to the US PHS as syphilis study at Tuskegee the study initially involved 600 black men with 399 with syphilis and 200 did not have it but it ended up being it ended up giving thousands of people the syphilis and so it goes by 1943 penicillin this is the this is the sick part and by 1943 penicillin was the treatment of choice for syphilis and becoming widely available but the but the participants in the study were not offered the treatment because they wanted to see what happened so even though they started the study and within 11 years they actually had a treatment for the thing they were studying but because they want to keep the study going they didn't even give them the cure and this is this is the CDC's website because this is what the CDC was before you know it was the US PHS I'm just saying this is our government you're going to tell us that you can trust this with your vaccine yet they even had a cure to the own illness that they injected with people and they they didn't give it they told them that they were giving them the cure they were the guys that they were getting help for the issue and they withheld the cure for a for this scientific reason so I mean yeah that's why there's no trust here the government it's very scary if you trust the United States government. Yeah the only thing that I would kind of say is that like like the okay a lot of Americans have this like obsession with you know freedoms and stuff like that and like it's all it's in your constitutional rights like and everything else like that right but there are suspensions of rights all the time it's not just in prison either I mean like there are like things about like you can't threaten someone with violence even though that is free speech that comes you know that like you're free to say whatever you want but you can't say this because that impacts somebody else it's like I don't know it's it's going down like a little bit of a rabbit hole but the point is that like you don't have like absolute freedoms there is no country on earth that has absolute freedoms and like genuinely if there was ever to be a country that had absolute freedoms I don't think it would be a very successful one the point is is that you know you like have your rights and you have your freedoms and everything else like that and that's all good and that's all amazing but there you know there there's like a little bit of an asterisk there's a little bit of like a condition to where like sometimes these things apply sometimes they don't it's it's it's just yeah you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from his stereo thanks so much says there's a reason why we don't poop in buckets and throw it in the street anymore nobody likes for people to spread their poop everywhere plumbing was the solution just like the vaccine is a solution yeah well I mean I'll even say listen I'm I don't want to take the vaccine but I just think it's way too early in the vaccine long-term testing to mandate it it shouldn't be if they and I'm anti-mandate and they never should make that clear but even if they did mandate let's say they did it shouldn't be within eight months of it coming out we got just common sense two years three years they're rushing this out because they got to get all the once they get all the legislation in place it never goes back we never undo the Patriot Act at least in America once the rules are in place we don't take away the rules that's just not how it works you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in sorry no it it just it just wasn't even that sorry do is do is just like somebody in your life that shame just shame and he just has spoken like a true European when I was talking about America has been obsessed with freedom sorry it's just made me giggle no problemo this one coming in from Bernuski says if you're going to mandate vaccines then you can't get the company's liability protection it's a moral to force people to get a vaccine and then deny them recourse if it negatively affects them well that that's a good point because you know that the vaccine companies are not liable for any damage to the vaccine don't you think that don't you think that they should have some sort of liability Steven or should they have no liability whatsoever well I mean like that's what okay I do think that there should be some amount of liability but I mean it's it's why like when you go in so obviously you know like Alex you won't kind of know this because you haven't been vaccinated whatever when you go in to get the vaccine they it's not necessarily like a consent they don't consent form there and then at least they don't in Ireland you're you have to sign up before you actually go in but they do read out like you know like this is a possible side effects and you know like if if you like have any of these then you know you have to like contact your doctor they have a little area where you have to stay for like 15 minutes just to kind of see if like anything like immediately pops up and stuff like that they like recommend that you take fuck Panadol I don't know apparently it seems to work I didn't take it any of the times I was fine so like I don't know like yes there should be a more of an onus or more of a responsibility on the on the the companies that are giving you the vaccine but you know it's the whole thing it's kind of like this it's where kind of personal responsibility kind of goes into it as well the only kind of thing that I would say well they had the vaccine injury you know they they have a whole thing where you get paid for by the government the reason why they say they don't have why they're not liable is because they the vaccine companies would go out of business they wouldn't develop they wouldn't develop it because they could take risk of people actually getting hurt and them going out of business so that's another thing that helps the capitalistic pharmaceutical industry is having no liability for these vaccines and I just agree with you on that if a woman dies from the vaccine her and they still don't do that I mean look I'm a socialist so like any kind of defensive capitalism you're not going to find from me you got it and thanks very much medic panda's making me laugh I appreciate that you could take some teasing and Keith Cole says thanks for all your hard work James we need more dialogue between left and right both sides are being crushed by corrupt government propaganda big banks etc thanks Keith Cole for your support seriously means a lot we're excited about the future folks believe me we've got some big juicy plans for this winter believe me it's going to be tremendous Brian William sin says deadlier strains are evidence of a gain of function I don't know if you want to take that but that's what I was trying to say is I don't know what Fauci does but that's what's supposed to where a lot of that money when Rand Paul and Anthony Fauci were fighting those are you know I know you know Fauci Rand Paul is like libertarian you know that's supposedly anti all the mandates and all that but he talked about how that they donated over 600,000 to the Wuhan lab to create a gain of functions create a virus and the idea of the gain of function is that the virus gets stronger and not weaker because the reason why is I forget why but they want to create a vaccine this is basically why you don't call me on this but they want to be able to have a vaccine that's actually spreadable like a gain of function so that's why they're trying to create a virus that does it because they're supposed to try to create a vaccine that has some sort of gain of function to get stronger over time instead of weaker is that's that was his reason for trying to create the gain of function virus. Yeah I mean the only kind of thing that I would say like I've I've like heard in passing or I've kind of looked into it in passing the whole kind of conspiracy is what I can only kind of call it for right now just only because it's not like only because it's not proven I don't know if there was like an actual thing that like you know that like this was like a 100% plan and like a Wuhan lab and it was meant to be like a deadly bioweapon that was then just released accidentally I don't know if that's actually the case I guess we'll find out but yeah and I don't know if that's the case either I don't know where you know I have no idea I think personally if I had to tell you what was going on I think it's people that got the 2019 flu vaccine and some sort that created some sort that's where that's where I'm just saying COVID came out of I think it was some sort of vaccine restriction resistant strain that came from SARS that came from viruses we had MERS Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome so I believe there is a virus but I believe it's just some sort of virus that we've already had and they say that it's much more deadly but I don't believe it's as deadly I don't believe it's any more deadly than SARS or MERS personally that's what I think I just think it's that has a better publicist than those viruses you got to thank you very much for this question coming in from Simon up amazing says Cider could we mandate that you stop vaping so we don't have to get a vaccine why do they have to get the vaccine if he vapes I don't I don't know about just like vaping I don't know vaping is just a lot that I'm sorry you can vape nobody cares everybody's been there they're really nitpicking they don't like you rocking and vaping they don't like me vaping I'll just I don't know I'll just sit still and just stare at you it's a little bit weird Tushae and five times five times one thousand says Cider do you believe in a God no I do not I've been on James's channel several times before debating religion said no I am an atheist I don't believe in a God no this one coming in from Ozzie and says immunity breeds contempt qualified corporate sovereign etc if this vaccine is later found to be unsafe no one will be held responsible get the shot if you are able to please they're pro-vaccine yeah I don't know I mean so there is an interesting middle ground like namely it sounds like Ozzie and would maybe be between the two of you because as far as I understand it Alex you are not at all a fan of the Vax and then Cider and Port you would say you would prefer for a Vax mandate if either of you want to respond to that last question you can yeah I was just going to say like I took the topic because like I'm kind of I would just kind of describe myself as more passively in favor of the vaccine mandate like if it became a mandate that you had to have a vaccine in Ireland I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it I would also just the only reason why I would say passively in favor of it literally is just because of how high Ireland's percentages it's literally 92% of the country it's only 8% that haven't got it so you know the chances that this is like going to you know explode and it's going to cause like massive issues and stuff like that is just low only because of how like of what the percentage of people that haven't been vaccinated for like one thing one thing Stephen I think you're 100% right you know maybe Ireland is totally vaccinated but which vaccine did they get AstraZeneca Moderna I mean did they get all you know maybe the vaccine they got did stay under 78 degrees all time maybe maybe they do handle it correct there and people didn't get messed up I mean maybe that is that is the possibility but at the same time there is literally statistics on that so the Johnson was only I think it was like 11% the AstraZeneca was something like 20 something but the vast vast majority was Pfizer maybe Pfizer's not as bad that's what I'm saying Moderna in Japan 1.6 million vials they had to recall so I don't know I think there's different vaccines there's different stuff in different vaccines I do know that Juicy this one coming in from the Cinegeek says for Cider and Port if people decide this is a fighting issue literally which seems likely are you prepared to argue for the aggressive the aggressing side as you are now there was a lot of assumptions there this is going to get like violent and then the aggressive side I mean like I don't know I guess the only way that I can kind of answer it is that like I would kind of have to like see what happens at the time but I can I can imagine like staying with the position that I have now you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from Dora tribes as Cider what do you think of quote my body my choice regarding the vaccine yeah it's it's yeah I kind of expect that to come up during the debate if I'm totally honest with you yeah I was just going to say I don't know I just think it's just a weird co-opting of something that like usually like left leaning people kind of use in terms of abortion but I mean like it's not but it kind of goes back to something that I had said it's not just personal health it's collective health it's not just it's not just your body it's everybody else's body so it's not it's not the saying or the slogan doesn't doesn't fit this situation hey I see your point there my body my choice because it's everybody it's communal I get that I mean I don't necessarily agree with it but this is the one thing this is one sticking point here in America that's I just want to give your opinion on it it's like the number one political issue and I said it earlier thing they say voter ID to show an ID to vote for the in the election is racist they literally say that like every politician on the left says that even my cat says that he's a huge lefty what I'm saying is they all say that but those those same people want you to not only have to have an ID to go to the grocery store but you have to have a matching piece of paper with your name and your vaccine shot and they say that isn't racist so do you think voter ID is racist okay so this is a little bit of a longer answer usually I will try and keep it kind of short and concise the reason why people will kind of make the argument that voter ID laws are racist is because in certain states there is statistics and there is data based on the most likely types of ID that different types like that like African Americans or Hispanic Americans are more likely to use and they will disallow those types of ID when you were going to vote so that is why they are trying to say that like certain voter ID laws are racist I don't think that showing a proof of vaccination can be used in this in the same way only because it's not targeted based on race or ethnic group well kind it is because the blacks are the least vaccinated people in the United States so it is that people in New York that are actually in San Francisco the places where the vaccine mandates are actually the black people with the most excluded race in the cities well the only thing that I would kind of say to that then is if individual people are not getting the vaccine I mean the point is I would say the same thing to somebody who is African American who has not gotten the vaccine as I would say to yourself or somebody else who has the same pigment as I do so yeah it would it would be the same thing it just yeah this one coming in from Ozzie and says I support education and publicity for vaccines not a mandate I am in the middle also I have medical privacy it's none your business about my health your beta's I made that last part up but they did say it's none of your business about their health but anybody want to respond good point see in America we have HIPAA laws were especially protected from and the reason big part of that is people in the 80's they were really sensitive to people at HIV so they didn't have to they could keep it a secret because that was sort of a virus and there was people tripping out I don't want to be somebody that's HIV positive so they they already had HIPAA laws before that but that was a big thing to protect you from if you had a illness if you had a virus you didn't have to tell people and this goes totally against that you don't have those HIPAA laws but this but in order to shop you have to show them a medication that you had for an experimental medication it just doesn't make sense you've got an answer it kind of goes against it goes back to the private businesses making up their own rules on who they want to serve and who they don't want to serve you know if they want to do that then they can do that but I mean again we've in history there's been vaccine passports there's been proof of vaccination so yeah you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from ASEAN who says I should not have to explain to you what my medical waiver is for a vaccine either and ZOISIN thanks for your question says has any lab proven COVID I E-X-I-S-T-S you can't say that COOX postulates I don't know if they've isolated it they say they haven't but I mean what the fuck do I know COOX postulates what do you think Steven um I'm so sorry James you're going to have to repeat the question again I'm it's the tiredness it's the tiredness I'm very sorry but COOX postulates are absolutely no idea no I'm going to be totally honest with you you got it and I won't lie and pretend that I know something the minimum amount of evidence to prove that a virus is real I guess or whatever I think that's what it is I don't know you got it and Mark Reed says just a reminder in all caps neither Alex nor Cider import are a medical professional and their opinions should not be mistaken for actual medical advice 100% do not take anything I say as medical advice I'm not a doctor this one coming in from do appreciate your question from the lake show who says can we find a middle ground between social responsibility and pro-choice as opposed to acting like one way is greater than the other enforcing things down people's throat we agree on end goal but how to get there is the challenge hmm I mean I think we had to find some common ground that's all say to that I would just say like there is an amount of common ground to be had here and yeah if we can get people who are more to the extreme than like me who are protesting or trying to get harsher mandates and people who are totally against it if we can get both of those to kind of go a little bit more towards the middle I think on this particular issue there is a lot more to gain than to lose I would like to tell Steven this because he is in Ireland so probably the marketing but I think the way they are marketing the vaccine is trash like if they really want I mean they do want people but I think they could instead of incentivizing it with like $100 or I don't know what they need to do I'm not a marketing expert but I'm just saying it's a marketing disaster the way they marketed this virus I mean this vaccine they could have marketed this way better they could have got but they just did in my opinion a poor job by being so the vaccine is the only cure instead of actually having that common ground I think that's the number one marketing problem is that it's so do or die vaccine is the only way out of it that it turns people off because they're like hey there's no other way besides the vaccine and I think there's people smart enough to realize the vaccine is not a panacea cure all for anything you got it thank you very much for your question coming in from catch22 says is the vaccine a form of patenting to physically own people wow yeah no that kind of goes like that takes the whole thing of like there's a microchip or a nano chip and it takes it to the just take that position and just go on steroids just no let's not and I'm a conspiracy nut I don't think they would have a vaccine so I'm saying some people are gonna die like they know that but I don't think they would actually give a vaccine that just kills everybody at once that's not how it would work you know that I mean people would realize that this one coming in from Brian Williamson says mandates equal the end of any and all bodily autonomy fair yeah okay yeah I just don't I don't I don't see it that at all but Stephen what happens what happens next year it's gonna be the lambda variant so now the vaccine only works every three months I mean what you know don't you think it's gonna get to a monthly vaccine like where does it stop like should there be a limit to how many you know what's a what's a minimum vaccine requirement because if there isn't a minimum vaccine requirement they're not gonna just get a hundred percent they're gonna want to get 300 percent because they're gonna want to get multiple shots out of the people that's that's the problem is it it's never ending it was eight months and six months it's just gonna get the chain this is how they do it it's like a they only you're on a chain right now we're on a metaphorical chain and they only take it one by one they take it one chain link at a time before you even realize that you know you're totally locked down you don't have any freedom it's a boy it's a frog in boiling water you know if you put him in hot water I want the frog jumps out but if you slowly put him in room temperature water and boil him slowly he doesn't leave and he dies and that's that's what's happening with these vaccine mandates it's a booster here it's a booster there next year it's three next year it's six boosters then it's 12 boosters this one coming in from Ozzie and says private businesses have no right to discriminate about my medical condition or medical waivers I have for a vaccine see I kind of I disagree I don't disagree I think you should no matter what there should be a waiver because they have we have American Disabilities Act the ADA no matter what you should you know there should be a waiver but I honestly have the opinion hey listen I own a business if I don't want some person that's vaccinated or unvaccinated and I think a business should actually have some sort of autonomy you know if they don't and if Trader Joe's wants you to have the vaccine then I'm going to stop shopping at Trader Joe's I mean that's just how it works it sucks I don't like that but I do believe in the business can do whatever the hell they want I do believe in that you got it yeah I was I was I was gonna say I didn't actually have anything to add that's kind of pretty much exactly what I was gonna say so this one coming in from a sparrow fall says cooks postulates apply to bacterial diseases Covid comes from a virus so attempting to quote prove unquote it via cooks postulates isn't possible interesting thoughts guys I mean I do think I mean to be they do sound correct I believe according to coax postulate our four criteria designed to establish a causative relationship between a microbe a disease so whatever this is I don't know I think we're getting in the weeds where we can't see the forest for the trees and we're doing that we're arguing about the microbes listen guys we're talking about mandates that people are sick some people are sick you know people want to say nobody's sick some people are sick wait I'm a conspiracy that some people are freaking sick so there is a version of SARS and MERS going around there is flu I mean come on you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from actually I think we may have gotten all of them yeah so what I do want to do is say thank you very much folks it has been a true pleasure you guys don't worry I'm going to be back in just a moment so stick around we're going to talk a little bit about philosophy for example and this will be in the post credit scene as we call it is in the live chat right now I have set up a hypothetical this is not original to me namely imagine if you don't understand the scenario well I'll explain it right when I get back my dear friends and so stick around as we will talk about a juicy little interesting philosophical challenge as well as upcoming debates but we want to say thank you so much Stephen and Alex it's been a true pleasure to have you guys here we really appreciate you hanging out with us tonight thank you so much James always a pleasure thank you Stephen I appreciate you staying up late and hey I like the courts of debate I like it when it's like this you talk about it because hey I don't think your ideas are stupid I get it and I think what you're trying and this is why I'm actually when my last point I want to say all the people that are pro-vaccine even though I disagree with you their heart is in the right place I believe that so I don't know you know I think if people want to do help I just don't think I do think it goes back to autonomy that you know your vaccine shouldn't be affected by whether I have one or not that's kind of my you know where I put my foot in the sand or whatever draw my line in the sand yeah no the last thing that I'll say is just kind of echo the kind of the compliment that Alex gave yeah this was completely cordial and yeah these are my much preferred types of debates where we can just kind of you know just talk it out there's no screaming match no shouting and no nothing that's fantastic it's been amazing so thank you very much I will be back in a moment folks and with that one last reminder our guests are linked in the description we really do appreciate them be back in a moment my dear friends that was an epic one want to say thanks so much for hanging out here it is always fun and so want to both greet you to get to say hello personally Shane Raymond 11 Kimo Machi as well as Colin Barrett and Stinger GT2 Amanda and Emperor of Cats Chaos Theory Baby Squirrels Buddy Bell thanks for coming by this is the first time I've seen you here we're glad you're here and Manic Panda is good to see you longtime viewer and friend we appreciate you hanging out here for so long stripper liquor good to see you and my name my last name thanks for dropping in as well as Contrarian 420 and Adam Elbilia amazing thanks for being with us Adam good to see you again it was a fun and juicy little debate we got to have last time I hope you're doing well buddy and Lacey and good to see you thanks for dropping in the lake show thanks for dropping by as well as Shane and Joseph Turcott and Evolutionary Life thanks for coming by says join the modern day debate discord I couldn't agree more what are you waiting for you guys it's amazing Larry Letts has done the most tremendous job with the discord and others as well but mainly Larry has taken on the challenge he's you know put in the time and we do appreciate it and the discord is epic I mean it's a way if you want debate experience maybe you're like hey I'd love to come on a debate whether or not God exists or hey this juicy one coming up that you see on the bottom right of your screen veganism on trial Alex Stein will be taking on vegan gains that was rescheduled as supposed to be tonight we're bumping it to next week as we're just working around a challenge that vegan gains had with the schedule but we're excited to have him back on it's been a while since we've had Richard on so we hope he's doing well and amazing let me tell you about some other cool stuff one in the live chat right now because I am sick in the head and I like seeing you guys squirm this is not an easy it's not an easy one it is a poll in the live chat right now let me know what you voted for and if you haven't looked at it over a hundred people have already voted the question was in case you didn't understand it maybe you're like what trains what are you talking about imagine there's a train it is cruising down the tracks it's about to hit five people and you happen to be standing nearby the tracks you can pull a switch namely one of those like kind of railroad track switches where it'll it'll change it'll go it'll change over the track so that the train will instead of hitting the five people it'll change directions and it'll actually hit one person who is you know tied down to the tracks just like the five people were tied on the tracks maybe about 50 yards 500 yards down the way what would you do now the challenge the reason it's supposed to be hard is because a lot of people are like well you know like I really don't like killing people and at the same time it's like well you know I also don't want to have five die I mean it sounds better if it's only one that dies right and you know this is assuming is a ceteris paribas so all things being equal so let's say they're all like morally average people so it's not like you have like like hitler like you know as a part of the five or something but they're average people and so the idea here is you're like okay there are five people so I'm concerned I don't want all five to die and I don't like one person dying but you know it seems better than five and so you most people in most of you say hey I'll pull the switch and I'll kill the one and I don't like it but hey the the 37 percent of you though that would say I don't really like that that is killing someone technically you would say I am not actually killing the five I'm allowing them to die that's true but I'm not killing anybody and I don't feel good about killing the one so I'm not going to pull the switch so both have their arguments now if you were one of the people who said I would pull the switch and kill the one to save the five let me ask you this I'm going to end that poll I'm going to put up a new one imagine now you guys will I mean but really think through it because I know that you might be like I'm you know I'm just going to dig my heels in and especially when you're not like I can't interrogate you personally on screen but imagine this would you still do it imagine instead of pulling the switch situation is different such that you happen to be on this bridge above the train tracks and you can see same scenario so the train is cruising down the tracks and it's going to hit five people and it happens to be the case that this bridge that you're on is between the train and the five people that it's going to hit in let's say you know 60 seconds or something now there is a fellow who is on the bridge with you would you push the fellow off of the bridge and imagine he's got an anvil in his backpack something that you know or maybe he's like extremely an extremely large fellow such that you thought hey you know I think that they might be able to cause the train to go off the tracks and it'll you know the five people won't die and so maybe in this case it won't switch the train over to go on to the track where it has the one person tied down but obviously the fellow that you push onto the train tracks will die right so now would you still do it so I'm going to post that into the chat and you can tell me would you in this case would you still save the five by sacrificing one by you know going cause imagine the fellow he's looking over the side of the bridge he's admiring the train he doesn't know about anything going on and you being your sick twisted selves would you push the fellow I am putting that in the chat right now and so you can let me know if you would still sacrifice the one to save the five let me know so that's right now I just put it in there and I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are juicy juicy juicy we'll talk about some other scenarios these are always fun now manic panda says the next question is quote who are you are you the driver passenger a five year old child your identity is important to the question juicy thanks for that you're just a bystander so you're not the driver you're not the you're not a five year old child and you're not a passenger you're just an observer checking out the train tracks and so think about this and this is normal we're so far we've only got 20 votes but now it's like more even where people are like I don't know I'm more directly killing somebody so now you can see that it's like not as slanted as the last time and frankly this is where most people if they have a conscience no I'm kidding come on calm down it's okay is most people start to feel like you know like ah jeez I don't know I mean the first time I was pulling a switch and you know theoretically I mean you could maybe try to rationalize that this is kind of playing with the thought experiment in a way that you're probably more than you're supposed to you say well you know I pull the switch but I'm hoping that the train still somehow stops before it hits the five that's why I would have pulled the switch but I don't want to push this guy because it's a guarantee I mean there's no chance he's going to survive you know he's for sure going to die or I'm sorry what I should have said is you pull the switch and you say well I pull the switch because it's going to probably kill the one person but who knows maybe the you know maybe the one person himself he's got like a higher chance of untying himself and getting up and you know from being killed so ASEAN thinks you're super chat ASEAN says I like to ask if you could save your loved dog or cat or save some strangers child who would you save I have seen 50 50 sometimes the juicy question I appreciate it ASEAN I'm willing to put that into the poll and we can see what people say I've got one last one for this so now people are like so there is a difference we're most oh what wait what it totally flipped okay it totally flipped such that now when it comes to you know pulling the switch in the first case now most people are like no I wouldn't push the fellow so that's the majority now because remember them in the first case the majority said yes I pulled the switch but my my thought is like what is the reasoning I mean if you were in the first case you're thinking well hey I'm saving the five that's still true in the second scenario where you're pushing the fellow let's say the fellow is somebody I don't know I mean let's say it's Steven Steen we gotta name somebody so why would you push Steven Steen I'm sorry why would you say no to pushing Steven Steen I mean you'd say the five you know you can't just let five people die come on well let me give you another one so we had that one that's juicy and pull so let me put this would you wait no that's not it would you still do it this is scenario number three would you still do it imagine person goes into a hospital and it's gotta be somebody let's say it's Steven Steen he goes into the hospital he says hey I don't want to be here and I am sick and you know I'm going to survive but maybe he's got the COVID or something he goes to the hospital and he's he's got a good chance of surviving but you know sometimes you have to go to the hospital whatever it is flu whatever it is and the doctors ethically they're thinking through this and they're thinking well you know I know he's going to survive but we have five people in the hospital and each of them has a failing organ and amazingly his blood type and everything else that has to match matches with the people that need the organ so they say well you know while he's back in the back room we could say five people they've got you know you could say a critical failing organ failing heart failing set of lungs failing brain whatever it is five things that you need they say hey this is just between us girls let's kill Steven we harvest his organs we save five people I mean come on you can't just let five people die seriously you got to do the hard thing and kill Steven and take his organs sometimes you have to do the hard thing and I'm the hard nose person who's willing to say yep just like I pulled the switch in the train tracks I'm going to murder Steven so so I'm posting that scenario into the live chat right now and then we'll do the one from Adam it is a juicy one and I think I know what you sickos are going to say to it but what do you think about this third scenario are you going to murder Steven steen I like this one where was it Andrew Krull says chop up Steven thank you for that I love her cat well good to see you I'm a beta boomer we're glad you're here Oliver we really are and I got to tell you not only that but I have to tell you my dear friend you should be able to see it at the top of the chat where you can vote and so let me know if you can't but the great G-man guy the guy says because I'm a coward thanks for that I appreciate that that's funny and then super Russell James thanks for dropping in says what's the context of the poll rewind it a little bit we're on a mission we're cruising through these scenarios and then but let's see here what about you guys are you going to chop up steen not even like you're not even going to consider it Ozzie says I already snipped it so long Steven and Chris go thanks for coming by glad you're here now we have 35% say yes you guys it's five people you can say five lives what's the matter with you I'm just kidding I don't even know what I do in all these scenarios I know in the last scenario I wouldn't I don't think I would in the other two scenarios either but the first one I like I think about it but I honestly I probably wouldn't there is some like there's a there does seem to be a meaningful difference between killing versus allowing to die and so that for me is actually like a pretty big meaningful difference and that's like frankly part of it's just like a lot of it's part of our like personal narratives like stories that we've experienced in life and so metaljacket says what if one of the five you save goes on to chop up 10 people that's right I mean he might be like a Steven steen type himself I don't know so scenario number three was the one on you know Steven steen goes to the hospital and you decide whether or not you're going to chop him up for his organs to save five people but let's put a last one in here so Adam Elbilia humored us with his poll I appreciate that Adam we're going to put it in right now so but I do yeah I want to say thanks so much folks are hanging out with us it's always fun we've got some juicy upcoming debates if you could save your love dog or cat or save some stranger's child who would you save so that's this last question and so let me fix this child alright by the way if this channel is not here tomorrow it's probably because of tonight's topic I'm a little bit nervous about this topic this is like very one of the few um this is one of the few topics where I'm like I'm a little bit nervous with this um but yeah I agree Adam chops even up don't waste any time and then is it CHR 1551 thanks for coming by we are glad you were here we hope you feel welcome Pedro H I'm good to see you again Chris Gammon pumped you are with us I've seen you there in the old chat and I'm glad you're here I hope you're doing well down there in a good old Dallas Chris you and Alex live in the same city did you guys have you guys met up like get some coffee or something but ok 83% of you say the child I'm a little surprised maybe it's because you guys think I'm gonna call you like you guys are gonna either you're afraid of it or call you degenerate if you pick the pet oh man you guys I want to let you know we are excited about upcoming debates including let me just mention a couple of others because I did I did promise that you might be curious why what other debates let me tell you some so in particular we already talked about the veganism one next Friday one week from today we're having a debate on whether or not there is evidence for reincarnation so that's the first time we've ever had that topic it's gonna be juicy then tomorrow T jump and his twin sister Carissa Avalon will be debating whether or not pot should be legal get off the pot you know who says that right do you but let me get into these other debates coming up the on September 4th with it gets it and I think her name is Emma I I have to check that but with it gets it is coming back and he's going to be debating with on the topic of flatter it is going to be juicy it is going to be all sorts of interesting types of arguments scientific arguments you name it interesting so you don't want to miss that one folks but let me see in the old chat here so 78% have said the child and manic pandas is the most moral choice must be to say 5 and then harvest their organs to then save the 25 you could you theoretically could take the 5 and you could you could save even more so you want to go the extra mile murdering 5 technically I really wouldn't call it murder though right so killing 5 metal jacket says it's like a cat and a baby there's a good chance a cat we find anyway at worst down 1 out of 9 lives and bronic thanks for coming by see you there in the old chat we're glad you're here as well and then Saito Nav thanks for being here and hit shield good to see you the egg corn glad you are with us and there rest to come thanks for coming by we're glad you're with us sage ohio good to see you and then chrisko says when is the t-jump vs t-jump chair debate oh it's going to be epic we are going to have my desk chair take on Tom's clamshell chair it is going to be so epic I can hardly wait Tom's on tomorrow with Carissa and then as I mentioned next