Here's one of those moments where what we said in the past might have been wrong. Check this out. CBD, especially full spectrum based CBD products, might actually be a good pre-workout. Studies are showing that people who take CBD and then work out, report that they enjoy the workout more. They report they enjoy the workout. That's right, dude. There's a study. I have a saying that I say, you know what, you know what makes weed so awesome? It makes everything else awesome, more awesome. Even your workouts are better. It's an actual study. It's more fun. It says, listen, the title of the study is effects of cannabidiol. Remember cannabidiol? Brought to you by Granddaddy Purple. No, dude. Who funded the study? Okay, we got to correct this. CBD is non-psychoactive. So it's not like weed. You're not going to get high or whatever.  And it's legal, right? Hemp, CBD. Yes, yes, yes. It's totally legal. We work with a company called Ned. You could buy this in all 50 states, full spectrum. Sorry, I know I'm messing your commercial up. No problem. So here's what it says, the study. Effects of cannabidiol on exercise physiology and bioenergetics. It's a randomized control pilot trial. And what they found is it increased ratings of pleasure, which then increased performance. So it alters some key physiological and psychological responses to aerobic exercise without impairing performance. Now, why is this valuable? Well, I mean, if you can enjoy the workout more and create better associations with exercise, you're probably more likely to do it. So this may have some value for people who just say we're correcting ourselves.  Well, I mean, we, I guess when we were speculating about it, I was like, it might be great in a setting where I'm doing like mobility or something or aerobic, parasympathetic. But yeah, aerobic for sure. Like that was like one of those things. So, OK, there was a study that actually came out a long time ago, or at least it's been a while, four or five years where they talked about even weed, THC, and actually the pros of that for like ultramarathon runners and things like that. So I already knew that for that, I'm not a fan of it for weight training. Although just CBD may not be bad. Now, here's why I think here's why none of us are fans of something like that for weight training. It's it's I think it has more to do with the fact that we love the feeling. Yeah, I like ramping up, too. I just like the feel. I don't need to take anything to make me enjoy it. I already love it. I do hate cardio, though. Right. So that may be where it's valuable. Maybe we use med and then we go running or something like that. Maybe we'll start to enjoy it. I have to take a lot of meds to make that. I mean, do you think that's the main the main mechanism that makes you feel it's just that it's it's an overall mood improving 100 compound, 100, therefore it just improves one of the number one reasons why somebody will fatigue or stop. It has more to do or has some to do, I should say, with their subjective feeling of pain and tolerance. People think that their bodies give out because their bodies give out. The truth is most people don't know how to push themselves to that point because they just can't tolerate the pain. They can't tolerate the challenge. So if you can create subjective or enhanced, I should say, subjective feelings of enjoyment and pleasure, people are going to work out harder or work out more often. Experience is going to be now. The truth is anecdotally, we've been working with Ned now. How long have I been with that? Five years, five years. OK.  I love taking it before I work out. It feels great. We've never promoted it as a pre-workout just because it's like whatever we don't like to necessarily promote things that way. But I mean, this is a study that shows that people who took it enjoyed the workouts more.  And it takes a while to learn how to develop a different relationship with that pain. This may help. Yeah, that's interesting. I know I've definitely taken it with caffeine or like before to make sure I don't get too jittery and high with my caffeine to kind of ride out that energy a bit more. But I've never taken it exclusively, you know, before working out. I always felt like I might be a little too, too chill. Yeah. Yeah, I like so. And you actually introduced me that way of using it. It gave me a very almost like theanine does with caffeine. It's a euphoric. Yeah, you do feel good. Yeah. I mean, is that is that fair to explain it that way? It kind of felt like that when you when you got me using theanine with my caffeine, I really like that combination. Similarly, I like the CBD with the caffeine like that. It kind of mitigates the jittery kind of makes for me and enhances the feeling. I I mean, full disclosure, I use it. I don't use hemp oil as a pre-workout, but I do often use it as a pre like work, like pre create, right? Come up with ideas for the podcast, the show, or if I'm reading or researching and I want to have more insight than sometimes I'll use it. So that's what it does for me. But I have such a good relationship with strength training because you're right with cardio, that might be a good idea. But with strength training, I have such a good relationship with it that, you know, I like the way I feel when I have some caffeine in the lift. I don't need necessarily to do anything else. Well, I still stand by our original statement because all the rest of the products are out there at garbage. That's true. Let's be honest. That is true. I don't know how many I mean you selling you like the CBDs in the title of the pre-workout just to kind of nobody to you. Nobody checks what's not full spectrum. In fact, at the gas station, I was at the gas station yesterday, at the gas station at the counter CBD products. I'm like, get out of here. These are not a guarantee. None of these have actual CBD enough. I mean, as the market dipped a bit, because I know it was like crazy there for a while, like the whole boom. That's a good question. We should see what the CBD market looks like. Oh, I would think overall it's filtered out and continue to grow, but it's over saturated now. I mean, there's now started putting in everything. Yeah. We called that though. We knew that skincare product. Yeah, we knew it would be it be and everything like that. It's one of those. It's because you can attach it to benefits to everything. Yeah. You know, so because you can say it's better for everything. Is this like, oh, you know what the problem with skin, mood, sleep, energy, so I've seen this happen with supplements to where there's an efficacious dosage and product that actually has some benefit, but because the market's not regulated and you could I could literally create a supplement right now and put on it. This contains CBD, creatine, vitamin C, magnesium, whatever. Nobody's gonna check. Nobody will ever check.  Everybody tries it because the vast majority of products don't have what they say they have in it. Everybody then decides it doesn't work. Right. So it's like, oh, I've tried CBD. I didn't notice anything from it. Oh, wow. Interesting. The market is dramatically slowing. Yeah. Talking about cutting. OK, so it says CBD pioneer Charlotte's Web said in November earnings call that stores were cutting back on shelf space, leading total cannabidiol distribution points to decline about 20% in the previous year. That's a felt like that, but I wasn't sure. Yeah, that was. Wow. Now on the flip side, on the flip side, Ned, when we started with them versus now, they are way, way, way bigger. Well, I mean, here's what I think that's what innovating with new products. I think that's what it is, though.  The cream is going to rise to the top. And you know what? Probably since I mean, we can continue to speculate. I don't know for sure.  So everybody races in because they hear and read all the articles, half of the people that are getting good stuff, maybe continue using the other half to get bullshit and get sold trash to go like, oh, this is this is not worth it. Well, that article right there, Doug, you just, you were just on one. It said the CBD market was projected to be by 20, 28, 47 billion dollars. So that's big. Wow. Yeah, that's big time. And I think that's worldwide. I don't know, Doug, you just connected from the TV. You know, because I actually, I've talked about since we've worked with the evolution of working with Ned, as far as my, I love all their products and I have nothing negative to say about any. I've actually enjoyed all of them, but the mellow is what has become my staple. Incidentally, the one without CBD. That's the magnesium product. Right. So that, that has been amazing. But recently I've been using edibles. I normally smoke. You guys know that's how I normally consume cannabis, but I've been trying to limit that. And I, I came off a while ago and then when I started back up again, I said, instead of smoking, I'm going to try edibles, even though I'm never huge. And what I don't like about edibles, again, it's just, it's harder for me to gauge. And then I, sometimes I get really higher than I want to be from them. And what I noticed was what I started doing, and it made a difference. I just, this is like the last week. So I had no, and I had no idea we're going to go here or nothing. I, I have also like very high CBD. And I remember you always telling me like, I should keep a one to one ratio. So if I get, if I have an edible, and this is, these are, these are normal. It's not netted. This is normal, like, you know, cannabis club, dispensary type edibles that have THC and CBD.  Sometimes when I get different edibles, when I hit 10 milligrams, sometimes 10 feels like 20 to me and sometimes 10 feels like five. And when they feel like too much, I feel really high and it disrupts my sleep. But what I noticed was when that feeling comes on, I've trained myself. I have, I have pure CBD with the, with the Ned stuff.  I take that and then I can sleep. So I don't, I don't, I don't explain what's happening there. It does have a balancing effect. It also reduces, so this is for THC users. CBD with THC reduces the short term memory loss effects that THC definitely creates. So using THC regularly, you'll get short term memory loss. Using it with CBD mitigates it. Okay. So here's a secret. This is a fact. If you use THC, now that we're on that topic and you get too much THC, you want to know what you can take? That'll like take it way down. Ibuprofen. Oh, really? Is it inflammation? It, look it up, Doug, look up Ibuprofen and THC or Ibuprofen and cannabis. So I'm going to do that.  So I'm going to do that paired with the full spectrum and see what happens because I've already teased in and out the full spectrum and I noticed a dramatic difference because again, I've been doing these edible things and it's hit and miss. Also, if I'm on an empty stomach or not, like all that stuff makes a difference. What type, what brand of edible and it's there, they're close when they say five or 10 milligrams, but they're not all precise and it does matter what's going on in my digestive system and stuff like that. So and I've teased this out enough times now where I go over and I use the full spectrum with the, when I get too high and it balances me out. And then I'm like, oh, maybe it was just, maybe I just and did you know you can also increase the strength of THC by I believe take eating papaya enzyme with it. It increases the amount of THC that'll get circulating in your system. Hey, you want to increase it more? Well, you guys know me. I get dork. I mean, if you really want to increase it, you don't eat. Well, yeah, you don't, if you don't, to me, that's one of the most dramatic differences on the strength of feeling THC is empty stomach versus fed.  The THC converts it. There's two different types of THC. When you eat it, it converts to something different. The versus when you inhale it. You metabolize it. Yeah, it's different. That's why some people are like edible people and other people are smoke people. Smoke, yeah, I'll be more paranoid the other way. I have way rather smoke. I'm trying to be because I know that eating is much healthier for me to go that way. So I'm trying to be more of the edible guy. It's a different high. It lasts longer than I like sometimes. I get more anxiety from smoking. I think it's mainly because of the coughing and stuff. Yeah, because then it has this weird effect, too, where the anxiety will come up a little bit and then it's like I pay too much attention to my breathing. Sitting there just like, breathe.  It's awful. It's gotta be the word. I already found the study, Doug, if you couldn't find it. Yeah, I found it. I just don't understand it. OK. Just to be honest here. Yeah, it shows that it reduces some of the effects. Is that the ibuprofen that you're talking about? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, I read that a long time ago. Kind of interesting. And by the way, as you're going to say, another article or study says that CBD demand is actually going up. In 2021, it was $4.9 billion anticipated by 2028 to be $47.2 billion. That's 10 times more. OK, so was that fake news? Well, you know what it was? Justin, it was reported from a single brand. Charlotte's Web is a pop. They went down 20%. Yes, is a popular brand. That makes sense, though, because back then when Charlotte's Web, Charlotte's Web got famous because they were the one that Travis syndrome, I think it's called. It's this. Charlotte's Web, Harlequin, and we're like the three dominant. Yes, but Charlotte's Web got popular nationwide because there's a form of epilepsy that is very hard to treat. It's terrible. It's terrible. I mean, it breaks my heart when I think about it. But these children have like 50 to 100 seizures a day. There's no treatment. And this was all, by the way, this is the beauty. This is one of the beautiful things of the internet. At the time, there was no treatment. There were no drugs. Nothing could do. You'd basically watch your child deteriorate and eventually develop brain damage. Well, parents were on forums talking to each other, trying to figure out what the hell is going on. And some people were reporting, hey, CBD really makes a difference with my seizures. So there was a, I think it's in Colorado. They were growing this, they grew this strain called Charlotte's Web. It's a high CBD strain. And it attracted all these parents with these children. And they started using it and they started finding that their kids stopped having seizures. This is what drove the research and this is what created the now medication for this type of epilepsy. Well, Courtney was a pediatric nurse and during that time where they were finding out all that information, they actually had some of that strain locked up in the hospital, but it wasn't promoted, advertised anything, but they would ask the parent if they were comfortable. And sometimes, and this is when it was a lot more taboo because it smelled and everything too. And the aroma was in the hospital and she would go get it and give it to the parents. But they were providing it because it was so effective. It was like amazing. It's called Dravet syndrome or Dravet syndrome. That's what it is. So, but it's crazy because there was no answer and these parents found out themselves through the internet working together. And then what they did is they, the government fast tracked the development of a CBD based medication for this. This was the company. I can't remember, I invested in them and eventually made a great return on it because I was reading about this. But I mean, pretty wild.  Yeah. All right, today's program giveaway is Maps Power Lift. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video, the first 24 hours that we drop it here on YouTube. Also subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments section. We are also running a workout program sale. We put together a brand new workout program bundle called the Time Crunch Bundle. This includes Maps 15 Minutes, Maps Anywhere, Maps Prime and the eBook Eat for Performance. This would normally be priced at over $300, but right now you can get it all for $99.99. There's only three days left for this promotion. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. You know, speaking of articles, did you guys see that article that John Deloni shared on the day about the income? The medium income or the income that would... Like what's the max income where you'll have positive impacts on happiness? There's a limit, right? Once you make past a certain amount, you don't get any more happy. So the old studies... Didn't Arthur Brooks talk about this too? Yes, okay, so I looked this up, Adam, I read the study. So the old studies that often get quoted is $75,000. Now this was done in 2010, by the way. So I'm sure based on that data, it's gonna change a little bit because of the cost of living and all that stuff. But what they found in 2010 was up to $75,000, the more you made, generally you'd be happier. Once you made $75,000, and once you made beyond that, there was no real significant impact on happiness. Once your basic needs were completely met, your bills, all those things were covered. Yeah, if you're not stressed about money, you have a house, you have bills, you can afford to pay, you could pay your bills, you could pay for food, you're okay, then you don't really get happier making more money. That was the whole basis of that. Well, this latest study showed that, it's more recent, showed that it actually is up to $500,000, that's a big difference. Wow, that's a huge difference. So now I looked at the study, and here's what I found, I love your guys' speculation on this. Okay, here's what they found, you gotta go deeper, okay? There's a percentage of people that are considered happy, just generally, right? They just have this predisposition to be happy. And then there's this- These are the people that said, honey, if we live in our bridge together and we had just each other, you guys know people like this, right? There's just happy people. They say that. And then there's those people.  Yeah, right.  I'm not gonna be happy. That's why he told me, I would not be living in a trailer, I would not be happy. You're gonna rummage through trash, we had each other, we would be so happy. I've been speaking a lot about what you said, I bought a tent, we're gonna live in a tent from now on, you know, close to the earth. It's romantic, right?  And we know people like that too, like no matter what, you're just unhappy. There's definitely a lot of those, yeah. So here's what they found. Within the study, the unhappiest 15% of people, so people who generally are just unhappy, they don't get any happier over $100,000. So up to 100 grand, they get happier, happier. After 100 grand, it doesn't change anything. Now here's where they got the number for the $500,000. The happy people, the happiest 30% of people. So these people are always happy, okay? They got happier and happier and happier, up to $500,000. And then they stopped getting happier. So what is your... What's, where are they getting that metric? Like what does that step look like? What do you mean? So how do they measure it? How they keep getting happier. Well, it's a survey. It's all self-reported. It's a survey, yeah, it's a survey. So as they've increased, I mean, look it, we could play this game with ourselves. Everybody has been, is made up to that. So do you guys recall at what point in your lives as you climb that financial ladder, say every 100K, 100K, 200K, 200K, do you recall like what point that you crossed that threshold? Yeah, yeah, I do. For me, it was like... And so by the way, this is how this study is conducted. You know, there's a thousand people that have made X amount of dollars. And by the way, these are general numbers because I mean, it depends where you live. I'm sure the number is way different. Of course, yeah. Stay area versus, you know. I still think it's an interesting thought discussion. You know what I'm saying? As far as like the thing... Yeah, for me, it was when I stopped worrying about money altogether. With your saturation point. Yeah, once I stopped worrying about money altogether, I know my kids will be taken care of. I know we're gonna be fine. We don't have to worry about it. I don't even have to think about it. Beyond that, then it doesn't matter for me. My lifestyle won't change.  So anything beyond that, it's not gonna really change much for me. You know, for me, it was less about the dollar amount I was making every year. It was actually more about how I had set up like financial security for myself as far as passive income, retirement and my...  So I mean, it's been well over 10 years where I crossed over that threshold. And when I crossed over that threshold, I'd say I was happy, but I still wasn't content. I still wanted more, but why I wanted more... You weren't feeling secure. I wasn't feeling secure. Once I felt secure that if I left, if something tragic happened to me, that my family would be okay. Or if something tragic happened and I lost the current job that was making that income, would I feel still okay? Like no urgency.  Once that feeling had went away, it actually didn't matter if it was 250, 500. That was actually the main thing, was can I build up enough passive income and a safety net and retirement, all that stuff. By the way, that's an equation with two sides. Earnings and spending. People think it's just earnings. No, spending's very important too. You can increase your earnings, which can also bring down your spending. Spending is not just very important. It is everything. It is 95% of the equation is the ability to delay gratification and to live significantly below your means. And be happy with what you did. Which is that last study I brought up, which was from Ramsey's group. By the way, that was the largest study ever done on millionaires. That last one I brought up. Where the teachers were number three. And that just highlights that. Yeah, they don't make a lot of money but they spend it well. You know what, they went into detail about that and you know what they talked about, those five professions. So you remember what they were dug by chance? They were engineer, CEO, account, CPA, right? And then so these are all people that have jobs where there's structure and systems and things they follow. Like you do this, you follow this, you get this out. So they apply it to their spending. That was actually the common theme. When you, because you look at those five professions it's like, that's weird. There's not a doctor in there. There's not this in there. Like day traders you would think in there. It's like these people have these very structured type of careers that you do X, Y and Z and this is the outcome. You follow these things. That makes sense. And so they've applied that same philosophy into saving money. All right, so let's go back to the study, right? Happiest 30% of people get happier and happier up to $500,000 a year. My theory is that if you're a happy person generally speaking, you know where to spend the money to bring value for yourself. If you're that kind of person and you give that kind of person more money they know what brings them joy. They know what brings them happiness.  Oh, I don't, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. That's what I think. I don't agree with that. The reason why I don't agree with that is because I think they are totally separate. Not that that can't be true. So I don't disagree that that can't be true. What you're saying is that there's, those are two different disciplines. What's the relationship? Like there's okay, there's people who like, I mean, I would think this.  I love my job. I loved every job I ever did. You know, how shitty it was or what time I had to get up or how hard it was or how little I made. I've loved everything that I did. So I would think I'm in that category. But it wasn't until my late 20s, early 30s did I get good discipline around money? So, you know, I would be far more wealthy than I am today. Had I had those disciplines already in place, 15 years ago. Do you think then the correlation is that the 30% of happiest people also simultaneously have, because the correlation is happiest people get more happiness up to $500,000. So are you saying that's because they have better spending habits? I mean, I think that that's part of the process, right? So as you make more money, I think in turn you have to build better habits. Look, I hear, here's what I mean. I don't think there, they're trying to make a correlation to that. I don't think there is. That's the correlation they found. Right, so that, I mean, that's what, yeah, but it's not causation, right? So I don't think that that is, it's directly connected. Well, here's what I think. If I can think right now to people I know in my life that are just the miserable people, and if I think about the people that I know in my life, they're just the happy people. And if I gave them both $100,000, I know for a fact, the happy people that I know would really enjoy that $100,000.  The way they would spend it and use it, they just, it wouldn't give them any value. That's why I think the way I think. I think that's where the, that's saying, like more money, more problems, like I just think that if you don't build that discipline and you understand like how to grow the money or how to like put yourself in a position where you could step away and you're going to be fine, be taken care, you know, you're going to be taken care of and like have that investment, like kind of waiting there for you. I think that's really where like the happiness starts to come in. That's why I don't think there's a correlation there because I feel like you can be happy as shit but have terrible relationship with money. No, no, no. Okay. Let me, let me say it a little, let me say it differently. I think truly happy people know what really makes them happy is what I'm trying to say. So for them, maybe what you're saying is part of it. And it probably is, right? Oh, you know what? If I provide myself a security delay gratification, that really brings me value. I think people who are just miserable don't really know what brings them joy and happiness. Maybe they blow the money on quick fixes. What's the other 55%? You gave me 30% and 15%. Those are the two things that stuck out. Oh, that's all I talked to. Okay, because what about the other category? I mean, that's only, you only talked about a 15% chunk of the people and a 30% of the chunk of people. Those are the two that stuck out in the study that made the big point. I mean, I have massive generalizations to me. I mean, it's like, I don't understand like really where, I don't know, I don't see how like everybody's going to fall like, so I had a theory before you shared all this on why I thought it had accelerated from 70 to 500,000 in this short period of time. Because obviously inflation hasn't happened that much, right? But what has happened that is new since that original one is social media. And I know personally- The whole comparison thing? Yes. And when I was 16, even all the way to 20 something, if I were to picture someone who drives a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, any of those cars, I would never think of a kid. I thought of an old man who's retired, like- That's true. But now, I actually think I see more kids driving around these- Because of social media. Yeah, because of social media. Now, is it still the same? It doesn't matter, the perception is reality, right? So what we see now is that, oh my God, look at all these people that have all these things. And so now what used to maybe make you happy at 70 or 100,000 because you are looking at these examples of other people, your peers, that have all this other stuff.  Well, there's truth in what you're saying because they've done studies on that where they find that people are happier when they feel like they're similar to the people around them, regardless of the income that they're making. So like if you're quote unquote poor, but everybody else is poor, you feel a little better about being in your situation. And if you made a little more, but everybody else made way more than you did. This is the whole like gap, income gap problem, right? And let's be honest, these people, you tend to do this where, and we're probably all guilty of this, like you don't follow the broke kid who's posting pictures of his, is dented up 1985 Toyota Camry, you know what I'm saying?  That's cool. Well, now back to what I was saying. Imagine when you guys were 20 versus now, okay? Both times you win the lottery. How differently would you be spending the money and why, right?  And then you figure out real quick, like this actually was a way less money. You know, I think about that a lot. Like is it that or is it that on the journey to making say, you know, $500,000, you had to learn new disciplines? Yeah, I'm talking about if you won the lottery, but that, what you're saying is 100%. I think if you earned- And the reason why this, because what I'm saying that ties in what you're saying is that part of that maturity that I have now today is due to the work of- Totally. Working up to that. Totally. If you took me at 20 years old and let's say today, I made the same income as I made in 20 years and I never grew financially, I probably would probably spend the money the same way. Yeah. Because I wouldn't know. Yeah.  I had to learn that what was really valuable. That's right. And I could use a different example. Imagine, you know how they say youth is wasted on the young? You ever hear that? Yeah, yeah. It's like take somebody who's 70 and snap your fingers and make them 20 again.  So yeah, it's totally experienced and all that, but my point with that is, you know what real value is or what money, the kinds of value and meaning that money can bring you now versus then. Like for example- Yeah, how do you justify the 70 to 500 though? That's my guess. Because your point makes, I don't disagree necessarily. That's my guess. I think that happy people- It's hard for me to see how they quantify that. Yeah, like if I took, like, okay, I'll use an example, I'm thinking of specific people. I don't want to say their names, but I'm thinking of specific people. Like I know people in my life that are just happy and there's people in my life that are just miserable. The happy person, if I gave them 100 grand, I know where they would spend it. They would spend it on bettering themselves, education, classes and travel. The person I know who's miserable, if I gave them that money, would spend it on partying- Yeah, things. Things, buying things, cars, clothes, you know, designer stuff. And studies will show quite clearly that experiences and personal growth, when you spend money on those things, you gain a ton of value. When you buy things, you don't get much value at all. Well, that supports the other thing that I've heard that I think is really, I think I heard Ramsey talk about this where it's like money doesn't change you. It just makes you more of what you already are. Kind of like when we talk about steroids.   It just enhances whatever that is. The money is the same way, too. It's like, if you have poor habits around money, if you were a prick before, if you were stingy before, if you were frivolous before, and you just have lots more of it, it's just an exaggeration of that. It just makes you more of the same thing.  Yeah, yeah, totally. I gotta tell you guys about a study that, I love studies that are ridiculous where you read the study, you go, oh, really, you need to do a study on this? But anyway, they did a study on men and women's brains on fMRI machines. So fMRI is called Functional Resonance Imaging. I don't know what the ends down, Magnetic Resonance Imaging. So they could see in real time how the brain blood flow is affecting the brain, what is technically being activated and what isn't. And they took men and women and they showed them pictures of infants. And they said, let's see how men and women's brains react to looking at pictures of infants. What's the difference? What's the similarities? What's the difference? But it's like women get flooded with oxytocin and all the chemicals and happy feelings. Well, with women, the parts of the brain associated with empathy, caring, understanding, lit up more than the men's brains.  Like this is like one of those things that we don't like to say because it sounds, oh, the genders or whatever. Like we've known this for thousands of years. Every culture has talked about this. That women are definitely primed to be more that way than men. I mean, this is why if a person abandons their kid- Well, the bonding is the most important thing in the very beginning. That's it. Look, if a person abandons a kid, nine out of 10 times it's a dad. It's a man. Women almost never do that. That's why if you hear about a mom who left their kids, everybody's like, oh my God, it's the craziest thing ever.  And there was an episode where Peter was taking care of Stewie because his wife Lois, she was hurt. And he's got Stewie at the park.  So he goes to change the diaper and all the women of the park are like, oh my God, it's a dad changing a diaper.  I'm like, man, the standards are so good. I know, I always feel bad for Katrina when that happens. It's happened to me before where I'm doing something like that, changing a diaper or I'm feeding Max. It's like, it's like a five minute project. You know what I'm saying? They're like, he's such a good dad. I'm just like, really? I do that all day. I only do it in public with his people to watch. He does it for five minutes and he's such a great dad. It's true. But I mean, we're wired fundamentally different. So what lights up for the guy? So imagine protection, protective. It's just similar, just those parts of the brain. I could pull up the study. Those parts of the brain just don't light up as much. Are we just dover? A little more dim. Yeah. I mean, look, I have, look, I have not super breath. We're just not in touch with our feelings. Well, I mean, bro, I have an infant at home, right?  And in the middle of it, Jessica's like, you know, oh, but I love her so much and I can't. And I'm like, man, you know, every once in a while I'll take over and I'm trying to do this a little bit more just to give her a break when I can.  Cool, thank you. You know, I'm not getting the seven, eight time, but I do it, she wakes up three times. I'm like, oh my God, if I did this every night, I don't know if I would want to do this. I think I'd probably give up and be like, I don't want to kids anymore. She does it every single night and it's like, she's hardwired. There's something there that just makes her able to withstand that torture to a point where it's just, for me on the outside of it's like, wow, that's pretty amazing. It's probably how she feels when I open jars that she can't open, right? She's like, wow, that's really amazing. Wow, how does he do that? Wow, that's crazy, what he could do. But anyway, you know, those studies were like, really, duh. Are you, you're at a cool, you're definitely at a cool phase now with Aurelius, like, are you seeing these, I remember it seems like every month and still to this day, it feels like every month now, the cognitive leaps. Oh, huge. Like just the, like the things that they like, like Max is now negotiating, which I think is just like, oh yeah, it's so, it's like so. Now, is he good? He's really good. He's really good bro, he's really good. Doesn't that make you proud? It does make you proud.   Really? Dude, this is, he gets it. I mean, I love it because. Has he done the alternate advance on her yet? Like so, you know, we, we have our, you know, structure, right, that we've been very consistent with on, on like what the routine looks like bedtime, but sometimes he wants to disrupt that.  Oh, I want to do this. And we should know when we have bad time like that, then he'll like negotiate. Well, what if I don't read a book or I only read one book, you know? So he'll like negotiate like the other things that he does in his thing, like, or I'll skip that. And so I could play with daddy longer or do this, or I don't want to take a bath. I'll skip a bath tonight.  If you really think. It is. No, I was trying to explain the Katrina muck. Think of what's his brain. Like that. He's getting things. That's a, that's a big cognitive leap to be able to, it's one thing to like repeat what you say, understand what things are, but then to also be able to recognize there's a pattern of what we do every single night, recognize there's time within that pattern that if I do this one thing longer, I need to eliminate something. Like the fact that he, like that's such a cool. And knowing how to negotiate it. Yes. That's a deal that may sound attractive. Yes. To the other person. Yes, yes. Yeah. No, Raleigh does this thing where he'll start. So he likes me to tell stories. I think I told you guys this already. And I'll make up these stories. He's super into cars. Not the cartoon. He likes that too, but he just likes cars. He likes fast cars. So you guys know I have a sports car. So we get in and I'll rev it and he has a great time with it. And he always likes me to tell stories. Put a lot of tell stories about, and he knows the name of my car. He'll say the whole name out, which is pretty funny. So yesterday we're eating dinner and I'm like, hey buddy, I want you to tell me a story. So he's like, okay. And he goes, but Bob gets in the car. He pushes the button. It turns on. Then he pushes the pedal and we go real fast. And we're cracking up because he's telling a story. So I'm like, tell me a story about mama. And he goes, angry. Bro. He was like fumes coming out of the drop. Jessica was right there, you know what I mean? She heard that and I was like, oh my God, that's what I said was angry. That's hilarious. Oh, I love you. Max even like, dude, he's so like, he knows how to even like after he closes that deal and Katrina agrees, then he has like this move where he'll go like, mommy and he waits, right? She, yeah, yeah, son, I love you. Oh wow. And then she just seals the deals. Oh yeah. Just whatever you want. So this kid knows what he's doing right now. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny to watch after. Kids are great because they're so honest.  Like, stop, don't say that.  Like he will, like Katrina is like, of course. You told me he encourages her. Yeah, yeah, he encourages stuff. And so she's trying, like she's always like trying new things that and everyone's well and she's tired and she'll like, she'll steal the story from like a song or something else like that. And he'll like, no, mommy, that's a song. No, mommy. You gotta make it up. Yeah, you gotta come with something original or else he picks up on it and then he calls you out. No, mommy, that's a song, it's a story. Kids are great, dude. I gotta tell you guys about a switch gears back to health a little bit. I had this, I was thinking really deep. So we did that interview with Dr. Wilcoll, great. By the way, that turned out to be a phenomenal. Yes, it did. The interview and look, full disclosure, it was one of those interviews that I wasn't super excited about, wasn't not excited about. I was like, okay, functional medicine doctor. We've had a few on the show. He sounds cool. All right, let's see what happens. And it turned out to be one of my favorite conversations and it's getting shared like crazy. It was a lot of fun. If you haven't listened to it, if you're listening, you should go check it out. But anyway, there was a portion on there that really got me thinking. So he talks a lot about the mind connection with the body and how stress affects the body and that kind of stuff. And then we were talking about autoimmune issues. And autoimmune issues, you know, a lot of people may not realize this, but this is one of the big things that has exploded, one of the chronic types of health issues that have exploded in modern societies. And we aren't quite sure what the hell's going on. Like an example would be like food allergies. Like when we were kids, which wasn't that long, I know we're older, but it wasn't that long ago, I don't remember a single kid with a single food allergy. There's just one kid. It's okay, you remember one kid. One kid that we couldn't have peanuts around and we always got so mad. I feel bad now, but I just like to push him down at recess. Yeah, eat a peanut butter sandwich and then breathe it on his face.  Put peanut butter on his backpack.  No, I don't remember anybody. It was so rare, right? It was super rare. Now, you know, I have kids that go to school. It's so prevalent that it's like, I'll estimate like 10%, right? Like one out of 10 or two out of 10 kids will have some type of severe food allergy. And if you look at the data on autoimmune issues like Crohn's disease, colitis, you know, and other types of autoimmune issues, they seem to be growing at pretty crazy rates. And so we can't figure out what's going on. So anyway, I was thinking about this and I was thinking about autoimmune issues and what's actually happening. And what I'm about to say I don't think is the cause, but I definitely think can contribute to, maybe not an autoimmune issue, but rather can contribute to your own body kind of not really working with you. So the flare up maybe. Just either the flare up or just, you know, you don't have an autoimmune issue, but I'm getting gut issues. I'm starting to get achiness and stiffness and hormone issues and why do I feel like crap? So when you look at autoimmune issues, what essentially is it's your immune system attacking your body. It's recognizing a part of your body, whether it be your gut or your thyroid, like in high Shimotos, and saying that's a foreign invader, attack it. And it's so hard to treat because it's your own body attacking itself. And I thought, you know, this is very true. The body believes the mind, just like the mind starts to believe the body. So give you an example. If you feel depressed in your mind, your body starts to mirror that. You start to move differently, you start to walk differently, you start to feel less energy. And vice versa, if you put yourself in a depressed position, you'll start to actually feel depressed. It's a two-way road. You can't disconnect the mind from the body. They're both the same, okay? They're both connected, I should say.  So there's definitely a direct connection. There is, or by winning a chess match to testosterone spikes or something like that, right? So mind, body, you can't separate them. They're intricately connected. They communicate to each other. One believes the other and vice versa. It makes sense, evolutionarily speaking, that your body would believe your mind and vice versa. So if you have terrible body image issues, if you really hate yourself, you think you're gross, you think you're disgusting, I'm fat, I'm not worthy, lots of shame, you're telling your mind that this body, this person is not good, could that eventually or could that trigger an immune response to where you're more likely to develop gut issues? You're more likely to develop inflammation.  Well, also too, I mean, how much do you think a factor of having these diagnosis of, you know, available in the lexicon in terms of like people's knowledge of like, you know, oh, maybe it's- I have this. Yeah, maybe you have celiac or maybe you haven't like, they're throwing these symptoms your way and you're like, oh, I can identify with this symptom and I can, and now all of a sudden you're believing these and then all of a sudden it becomes part of what you think is happening. Well, is that what happened when WebMD got really popular? Didn't that happen as a population? Well, these contagions are actually, I think if I'm not mistaken, anorexia. Anorexia was quite rare until it became, I think some celebrities talked about it in the 70s, I wanna say, and then it became like a phenomena among girls. They call it like a social contagion. Maybe Doug can look up anorexia social contagion or it might be bulimia. And you can see stuff like this where all of a sudden you have people identifying with a particular mental disorder issue because other people have this issue or talk about this issue.  I just, I feel like maybe it accelerates because the numbers accelerated so much that now you have some kind of a rationale and reasoning behind it. I'll give you an example. You take a vegan who's a vegan because they vehemently believe in the welfare of animals.   Red meat will not have a negative effect on your blood sugar levels or your insulin. Okay, it's fat protein. It's not gonna have an effect on your body.  You'll probably see a blood sugar response or insulin response because of the stress, the mental stress of what they just did. Oh my God, I just ate animal. I don't want to eat animal. And you'll measure it physiologically that their body will react to it because of their mind, because of how they feel. What does that say there? Yeah, so research in the 1980s and female college students first suggested that disordered eating behavior spread through social contagion, demonstrating that binge eating clustered within sororities. So it does sound like bulimia in particular is a social contagion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by the way, these social contagions tend to proliferate more in young women than men because young women are more, they're more sensitive to, I mean, just to society in general. I mean, they're very good at reading. I wonder what was the more social. I wonder what was before bulimia. And I wonder if this is a common trend and it's just different things that manifest. Yeah, there's theories around lots of different things with that. But I mean, my whole point with this is if you're hating yourself, if you're constantly hating yourself, hating your body and you can't figure out why the hell your body won't respond, why do I feel like crap? Maybe try actively thinking differently. And it may not feel normal or natural to you because that's not your normal practice, but practice saying things and thinking things and finding ways to think of yourself better. And over time, you're probably gonna notice some, and it's not woo-woo. I mean, it's not woo-woo. Again, the body believes the mind so it makes sense that this would, you know, that this would have an impact. We had Dr. Roy Vontogma, I forget his last name, but like, about cancer. Yeah, and just the way that he would present diagnosis to patients and try- Way more optimistic. Yeah, optimistic and just like have a more of a positive take in terms of the treatment and we're gonna really see like the success of this versus like the doom and gloom, like go all the way to, you know, like have them sort of prepare them for the worst case scenario and death, you know, and saw a lot better result in the positive direction. Your wife was a nurse for a long time and she worked pediatric, right? Yeah. Have you ever asked her about how children react to like surgery versus adults having the same surgery? Oh, yeah. The kids are like, they don't know they're supposed to hurt? No, they don't know. They get up and move around. The adults are like, I need more pain. Yeah, she's like trying to keep them on the bed from jumping around and like, you know, ruining their stitches or whatever. And it's just like, yeah, kids don't have that intuitively until it's projected from their patients. I really feel like that. We talked, I just talked recently how Max went through this like crazy throwing up spell. And from the very beginning, we never freaked out about him puking. And I swear to God, that's why he's like, nonchalant.  Like doesn't even think it's a big deal because we never made a big deal about it. You're right. Yeah, 100%. We did the wrong thing with Rayleigh's was sick and a couple of times we kind of freaked out because it was middle of the night or whatever. And I, and a hundred percent, it scared him.  So a hundred percent, they, especially with children, they learn how they're supposed to react and how they're supposed to feel and regulate through their parents or through their caretakers. So yeah, we messed up on that. Anyway, Adam, I wanna talk about Park City, Utah. Yeah. The location there. Is it, what was the thing that we were waiting for? The sauna. Is it coming? Arriving in, I think the thread dug at say two to three weeks. Is that what I saw? I believe that's what you told me. Now, are there vacancies coming up or is it totally booked? It's not totally booked. There is some vacancies. In fact, I actually think this coming month is actually one of the slowest months of the whole year. So if there's somebody that's interested in getting in soon, but the last time we brought on the show, we had quite a few bookings right afterwards. So it seems like every time we've mentioned on the show, it tends to start to fill up quickly. So basically it's a, how many bedroom? Again, this is a three bedroom. Three bedroom and it's in Park City, Utah. And in there you have sauna, cold dip, PRX gym. Do you have theater, steam room? Jacuzzi. Jacuzzi, and then you have the red light therapy. Red light therapy, movie theater. The last supplements. Yeah, supplements and stuff inside there. Yeah, all that is inside there. And you can go to minepumpparkcity.com. You can also find us on Instagram at the mine pump rentals on Instagram. You can see photos of inside it. A lot of it's not updated. We've done more stuff as far as like some pictures on the wall and some rugs and lamps. And so it looks a little bit nicer than what you see on there. It still looks nice, but it looks really plain. We've done more stuff. And the tile that I picked in the kitchen worked, huh?  Really tied it all together. No, it was the blue cabinets that I thought wasn't gonna... That's what it was. Yeah, you did the, I did the tile. You did the blue cabinets. And I thought, oh, I don't know about this, but once it was all done and the couch and the rug and everything, it really pulled everything together. So... I feel like I had to contribute something. No, it looks good. I guess we've been out there more. It's like... We'll be planning a trip there real soon. No, we need to. The snow out there is insane. Well, we have to create more workout programs. So that would be a good place to do it. I agree. All right, do we have a shout out? Does anybody have a shout out for today? Will Cole, if you want to do it. Oh yeah. Let's do his. Doug, he's great. Let me get his exact... His Instagram. I can pull it up here. Oh, it's Dr. Will Cole. So DR. Will Cole, C-O-L-E. Functional Medicine Practitioner. He's most known for working with celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow, but very smart guy and he communicates very well and effectively. So if you're into wellness and health, go check this guy out on Instagram, Dr. Will Cole. All right, check this out. OrganiFi is a company that produces and makes plant-based supplements that improve performance, health, help with muscle building and fat loss. They have superfood blends that make it easy and enjoyable to add more variety nutrition to your day as well. Great products, all plant-based and of course, all organic. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off any of their products. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Kay Lynn from Canada. Kay Lynn, how can we help you? Hey guys, thank you guys so much for answering my question. I am like super nervous, so I'm probably gonna just read my question. But my question is about the rest periods, specifically the prescribed rest periods during anabolic. So I'm following anabolic right now. I'll give you a little bit of background about why I'm asking this question without making it sound like a bunch of excuses.  They're from two to eight and I work out exclusively at home. That being said, most of the time when I'm working out, I have kids around who may be jumping in and out of workouts with me or who need parenting kind of in between workouts. I have a two year old who has her own little set of two pound dumbbells and likes to try to copy everything I'm doing, which I appreciate, but it's also hard to lift heavy things with little kids kind of in and around my feet. And then my older boys are five and eight and I'm usually breaking up a wrestling match at some point during my workout. Sounds about right. Yeah, I also work full time and I solo parent two to three weeks every month with my husband works out of town. So I've done the wake up early in the mornings before the kids get up before and I found I just got way to burnt out doing that and I just never prioritized sleep. As a former athlete who probably overtrained for many, many years after listening to you guys I've kind of learned how to prioritize rest and the importance of rest and recovery. So at this point, I'm hoping to not have to kind of get back to the 5 a.m. workout before work and before getting kids up and ready for school. So I guess my question is, how crucial is it to follow the rest periods? How might my progress be affected by taking extra rest? And is there maybe a more appropriate rep range that would be more forgiving for kind of sporadic rest periods during a workout? I knew where you were going with this question and I was smiling as you're going through it because it's cool to hear and picture you with your kids while you're working out. Here's the deal. No, it's not that big of a deal whatsoever. And in fact, the splitting hair difference of being that meticulous about your rest periods doesn't even come close to trumping what the relationship you're building with exercise with your children. Well, that is a million times more valuable what you were doing with your kids and allowing them to interact with you and see you doing that. It's not even in the same universe. I'll say this to you. First off, I don't know how you look so rested and healthy with three kids all under the age of, would you say eight, that's crazy. Good for you. So here's the deal. You'll get better results if you split up your workout throughout the day. By the way, ready for this? Most people would get better results that way. Not because, so it's not just because you're limited. In fact, taking a workout and doing it throughout the entire day would probably give most people better strength and muscle gains. Where you would maybe see a sacrifice is an endurance because you're not training with shorter rest periods, you may lose a little bit of muscle stamina, but who cares unless you're competing at something. If your goal is to be fit, healthy, sculpted, good metabolism, I mean, it's not that big of a difference. But when it comes to strength and muscle, you'll actually build more muscle and be stronger by allowing yourself to break up your workouts. So it's not like you're sacrificing something. In fact, I've recommended this to people who don't have kids who are not in your circumstance and I'll say, hey, do you have access to a gym all day? Try breaking your workout up into three or four blocks, workout throughout the whole day and see what happens. And they all come back and report better results. So yeah, don't worry about the rest periods. If they interrupt you and you gotta stop for 10 minutes and go back to it or stop and then eat lunch and whatever, put the kids down, go do the rest of the workout. It's you're not just fine, you'll get better results that way. Yeah, I'm actually, I mean, when I have clients that are concerned about rest periods, usually it's that they don't wanna rest, right? And they wanna just keep powering out and get through the workouts when in fact, it sort of defeats the purpose of when we're trying to focus on strength and building muscle. So in terms of that and like breaking it up in chunks, it's really not gonna have that big of an impact on you. But what Sal said in terms of having those short blocks, like it's actually gonna benefit you more even to just go in that direction. So I think that you're in a great place. Yeah, I'll tell you what, if I had the ability to do that, I would actually work out that way. I would work out, I would take my hour workout and do like three 20 minute workouts. And I'd get better, I've experimented with that myself. Katrina loves that now. We did that while she was pregnant and when we first had Max and she's just continued it on. She doesn't need to do that anymore. He's in school all day. She likes it. And she still prefers to kind of like, she opens up our garage door and she's like got the laptop out and she's half working.  And it does the same. And it's like, you'll take that one compound lift, you'll focus just on that, leave, come back, do the next one. So it's like, you can totally chunk it out like that. No problem. Yeah.  So it's actually the better of both. So, and I want to communicate that because you're not compromising your progress. If anything, you're gonna see better progress that way. So go ahead, let it be broken up. Do the whole workout throughout the whole day. It's not gonna, not only will it not make a big difference, it'll actually probably give you better results. Awesome. Cause yeah, sometimes on like a Saturday morning, a like a foundational workout could take me all morning. Like I get up, and anytime I try to get up before the kids, it's like they have a spidey sense and they just wake up extra early that day because they know I'm also awake. And yeah, like for the mental health benefits, I try to do it when they're not around or sleeping, but then it's always that balance between rest and getting sleep. And yeah, having them join me, like I said, I kind of love hate at the same time. Here's one thing I'll say though, is if it starts to stretch out over like three, four hours, it's okay to have some food or some calories in between because what you don't want to do is go, you know, like skip meals because I got to finish my workout because that'll start to become a problem. So, you know, I've experimented with this where I'll do like, you know, five to six sets every other hour all day long. So I'll take a Saturday and just do every other hour, I'll do like five or six sets, but I'll make sure to eat a small meal in between most of those workouts because if I don't, then I'll start to notice detrimental effects. So that's the other part of it. By the way, we have somebody that has been in our programs who does this phenomenally. She posts on her page all the time, videos of her working out with their kids in the background. I don't know what her page is called. Grace? Yeah, Grace Barga. So you can look her up. I don't know what her Instagram is. It might be just her name, Grace Barga, but she's been in some of our programs, phenomenal shape fitness. I think she's got three kids too. And she does the same thing. She just breaks it up throughout the day. She's a maps anywhere. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. You got it. I heard you and like a friend introduced me to you guys on a bachelorette party weekend actually, and we've been kind of geeking out over my cum since then. So I've gone back and listened to a lot of the older episodes and there was an episode where you were talking about using a timing, like a stopwatch to make sure you're getting kind of the appropriate rest, which kind of made me think of whether or not I was doing myself a disservice, but I appreciate kind of all the input. No, it's a good question. And it does make a difference. It's one of my favorite ways to get somebody who's in a plateau to kind of break that plateau, but- That's not in the novelty aspect of it. Yeah, but where you're at in your priority, I mean, it just, you're fine. You're gonna be just fine. We're talking about a splitting hair difference. Yeah, think of it this way too. I'm sure that there's the occasional, oh my God, I have an hour to myself type of stuff. In that case, go ahead and see if you can power through the workout and work a little bit on the strength and stamina. So I'm sure that that occasion will probably pop up a couple of times or a few times a month, in which case then you'll get the benefit of the novelty, right? The fact that it's different, but otherwise you're totally fine. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, no problem. No problem, thanks for calling in. Yeah, see ya. Bye-bye, I love that. I love that question. I love that we can communicate this because I think a lot of people skip workouts because they don't think they have, oh, I don't have 45 minutes, so why do it at all? It's like, you could literally do one exercise, do something else, one exercise, do something else, make it, you know, end up doing five or six or seven exercises throughout the day and get excellent results, amazing results. It was just this thought that it wasn't gonna be effective, so why bother in like, you know, having to get all the kids to go in the kids club and like have them accounted for and all that. No, bring them in, man, I love that.   Like if she got worse results, I still think it's the move to do that. What she is building with her kids, her kids interacting with her while she's working out is the single most powerful thing that she can do to allow that to bleed into their life organically. Oh yeah, they just see it, they're around and modeling it. Yes, modeling that, and so, you know, she could get up at five o'clock in the morning and her kids never see her workout and she gets a more optimal workout potentially, but to me, hell, that doesn't, I'd rather have a suboptimal workout and allow my kids to interact and see what I'm doing so that they then want to emulate it later on than try and schedule it where I'm away from them so much just because I selfishly want to make it a little bit more games. Yeah, well, here's the deal.  The last thing she wants to hear is about how she can be a better, you know, trying to find time to get it, dude. So I'm like, I'm not gonna say that, but it's 100% true.   It's more about letting her know that like, dude, what you're doing is amazing. Our next caller is Kevin from North Carolina. Kevin, welcome back. How can we help you? Hey guys, yeah, hey, I wanna start out first of all just by thanking you guys so much for all the content you put out. You guys were absolutely instrumental in me becoming a personal trainer and a nutrition coach. And I've learned a ton from you guys, listened to you guys consistently and still do to this day. So thanks for all the content you guys put out. Thanks for having me on. All right guys, I got a question here. I hear you talking about the benefits of mini cuts during a bulk phase. And I had a couple of questions about programming these. Number one is how aggressive should these mini cuts be? I mean, are these just modest calorie reductions or are we not messing around? And number two, what's the best strategy for coming out of these cuts and returning to a bulk? Is it best to reverse slowly out of these or we just kinda pick back up where we were in the bulk? What does that look like? Are you using it just to interrupt a bulk? Is that what you're asking? Like, so like let's say I'm on a, I have somebody who ultimately wants to put 20 pounds of muscle on and we've been on a bulk, let's say for, you know, six to 12 weeks. And it's like, you hear us talk about the mini cut in there. Is that what we're talking about? That's exactly it. Yeah, kind of a break from that bulk or you know, maybe somebody that's kind of noticed and get a little fluffy and would like to just knock a little of that out before they get back onto the fluff, back onto the bulk. You know, how much the cut is as far as the reduction of calories really matters where they're at, right? So like if I have somebody who's at like 4,000 calories maintenance or that's where their bulk is. Let's say their bulk is 4,000, their maintenance is 3,500. I can run them at say a 3,000 or 2,800 calorie cut for like say a week or even like three to four days really low and then right back to the bulk. So, and you can go right back. You don't need to like reverse out of that because we are, and you could, you could be extreme by the way, and I've done that with clients. If I have a client who's a very robust, healthy metabolism, they eat a lot of calories. I've done before where like we go four or five days really low calorie, four or five days of really low calorie interrupting somebody who has a healthy metabolism who eats 4,000 calories is not extreme. It's in fact probably really good for them to do something like that. Like, have you ever seen a Volter Longos research on the fasting mimicking diet where you eat 500 calories a day for like a week? Like I would, so okay, so research some of his stuff. He's got some great, great information around the fasting mimicking diet where you eat 500 calories. I have done that before where I've got somebody who eats 4,000 calories and then but for one week I cut back either all of their training or reduce it and go like, okay, we're just gonna super low calorie and then I'm gonna boom right back the other direction again. So there's not like this blueprint of exactly how many calories it looks like but I would say it's a week or less. The shorter the timeframe, the more extreme I'll go with calories. The longer the timeframe, the less extreme I'll go. Here's how I like to basic, Kevin, is I judge the cut on whether or not they're hungry. The goal is for them to be hungry. That's the goal. So if I cut their calories and like, oh, I feel good. All right, we didn't cut enough. The idea with the mini cut is to more than all the other reasons because there's lots of reasons I could, you know, like, okay, we're trying to minimize fat gain and improve the sensitivity to protein and blah, blah. It's all minor. The psychological aspect is the most important. So I just cut the calories till they're hungry because I want them hungry. I want them to come out of this three-day, four-day, five-day cut wanting to get back on the bulk. That's 99% of the reason why I use mini cuts is to get them to feel good about going back on the bulk. Because once you've been bulking for a while, it's like you're force feeding yourself and you just get bored and I don't want to eat this much. So the number is based on how they feel. Are you hungry? No, I'm not. Cut more. Oh my God, I'm starving. Cool, we're gonna stay here for a couple of days and put you back on the bulk. And there's no need to reverse out of it slowly. Just jump back into the bulk. Got it. So when you say mini cut, you guys mean mini. You're talking, I mean, I hear you say three, four, maybe three, four days, maybe a week. It's, but you're not doing like a two-week or three-week. Not for somebody who's around. You're in, you're out. Not when it's an interrupter. Not when, yeah. That's why I asked when we first started this question is like, are we talking about somebody who is like wanting to bulk, need to build and we're just trying to interrupt it. If you're somebody who's like actually more in the, like they're looking for longevity and health. They're not trying to gain 20 pounds of muscle. They just want to stay fit and lean. Like, and we've been on a bulk for say 12 weeks. Oh, well, then you could definitely do a little mini cut for three, four weeks. Because it's a different goal, right? But if someone is like- And the cut's gonna be less aggressive. That's right. So we're not looking to make you, we're not looking to make you super hungry.  Got it. All right, no, that answers my question. Wasn't sure, especially how you're coming out of that. So you guys would say just jump right back where you were. So you're eating 3,800 calories, not even 2,800 calories. Do that for three, four days. Jump right back. That's it. Yeah, reverse dieting really kicks in when you have a chronic low calorie. That's right. Someone who's been chronically eating low or binge restrict, binge restrict.  Someone who's got a robust, healthy metabolism that's eating 3,000, 4,000 calories a day, interrupting that with a week of very, very low calories, not damaging to the metabolism, what so are. And then that's kind of like that old adage of like, oh, it's starvation mode. It's starving the body. No, you'll get health benefits from, you know, someone who eats 4,000 calories on a regular basis to all of a sudden going to 500 for seven days. That's not a big deal. Exactly. Cool. All right, no, that answers my question. You got it, man. Thanks, Kevin. All right, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Keep up the great work. No problem. Actually a great question. He always has great questions. He coaches people. He works with people, you know. So he's going to get the questions that are the most, you know, the most valid, the ones that people are probably wondering. He's one of my favorite guys in the NCI group because he truly, I feel like he really takes advantage of all the opportunity with all of us that he gets to see in the coaching thing with the free stuff that we provide here. Like, I love that. I mean, that was like the part of the idea of all this is like trying to promote these trainers to utilize all this stuff, to better their businesses. And so he's done an incredible job of watching. Yeah, but again, just to reiterate, the idea is to feel hungry. That's the main, main purpose of that interrupting. It's a good simple way to cut. So like whatever you need to cut to feel hungry again, that's where you need to go. Yeah. Our next caller is Gilbert from California. Gilbert, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going? Guys, happy to be here on the show. It was kind of crazy. It's a real staring at you guys right now. So I've been listening to this show probably for like a month now, but there's pretty much all I've been listening to. So appreciate all the advice and all the being a dad, all the dad stuff you guys talk about. It's actually, I was like, oh, this is actually pretty great show. It's not only about fitness, but now I'm learning stuff that you guys build up the same stuff I see. So thank you for that. You got it, man. But to my question, so I actually just started, all right, just finished a cut. I'm about to finish the cut. I was at 199 pounds January 9th and I've dropped down. I'm right at 170 right now and I've dropped from about 20% body fat to 8% body fat. And this is like the most successful cut I've had. I will say it was on 75 hard and I know you guys thought on 75 hard, but I'm just about to finish and so now I'm like, I want to make sure I know where to go next and I have a plan for it so that I don't end up going back to older habits. So right now I'm training for Spartan. So my plan is to do six Spartan races, obstacle course racing this year. I have three that are like in the gym, kind of more focused on gym exercises than three outdoor ones, which I know is a lot of like pulling yourself up and cardio as well. So really my question is I know a lot of people say you can't do both where you're bulking, weightlifting, which I love to weight lift and keeping your cardio up. And so like, I know there's a lot of people that say, oh, you can't do one. You can't focus on cardio and your fitness there and keep your weightlifting and bulking at the same time. So really my question is, I don't believe that. And I'm kind of looking for advice on what the best route to go is now I want to bulk up a little bit, but still maintain my cardio fitness. Yeah, I mean, you can do both. You're just not going to do both as good as you could. If they were your, yeah, if they were your only goal. Like if your only goal was to build muscle, then you would do it more effectively if you didn't simultaneously train for lots of stand endurance for Spartan races. And vice versa. If your only goal was to be to improve your performance in your races, you would do better than if you tried to do that plus bulk. But it doesn't sound like you're too extreme with either one. And you kind of want to do a little of both, which is totally fine. So I'll say this, if you're doing three to four days a week of Spartan type exercise training, one to two days a week of strength training is not just plenty, but that's going to be ideal. Three and three is a little too much. So I would go one to two, focus on getting stronger, then three to four, do your Spartan type training. And then here's the other important thing, very important.  That's going to be the limiting factor. For most people with that much activity, they tend to not eat enough to fuel any type of muscle gains. And then it's going to happen slowly, but you'll get a little bit of both. You do know we wrote a program for this, right? I do. It was all laid out, right? When you race, yeah. We're going to give you MAPS OCR, bro. I mean, that's why we wrote this specifically for someone like you that wants to build muscle, but then also do well at their Spartan race. So we program everything in there, including the cardio aspect of it, all the types of exercises that are going to favor you in the sport. Like we know like what... Our grip focus, the strength training in there as well. So, yeah. We'll send that to you if you don't have it. Yeah, awesome. I appreciate that. Yeah, and that's kind of where I'm going to. I go to a gym that's like my group fitness classes, but now I'm starting to see that like it's not really tailored to what I'm trying to do. You know, more so for like beginner intermediates, people are trying to lose weight. So that helps a lot because that was my other question. It was like, where do I go now with my fitness? I'm with my work outs because I haven't seen a lot of programs dedicated to like just OCR training. No, this is an OCR specific program. We wrote it with a top racer. So it's well-programmed. But you know, I want to comment on the group fitness thing. They'll never be tailored for you. No group class is ever tailored for an individual. So it's a way to work out, but it's the least effective way to work out. Right on. You got it, man. But we'll send that to you. So follow the program as laid out or if you want to kind of do it on your own, follow the advice that I gave earlier. Right on, thank you guys. I appreciate it. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. Thank you guys. Who was it that wanted to do a Spartan race? It was one of you guys was trying to convince us all to do it. Was it you, Justin? I mean, I was like considering it, but I wasn't, he's the most likely to do it. I probably will do it at some point, you know. Did you see how much? My question, somebody asked that just till questions I did yesterday. No, what happened? I mean, people, I think almost every time I do those questions, we get at least one or two people that would love to see us do it. You know what I told him, I said, I would never say never, but it's what I have learned in the nine years of us being around each other is that rarely ever has our goals all aligned. I know. So that's the challenging part. I've given up on that. Yeah, you know, one guy's working on his gut health and stuff, the other guy's working on his mobility, the other guy's trying to hit PRs, and then all of a sudden this guy's working on his, you know, it's like getting all of our goals aligned to then want to train for something like that that's very specific.  Did we do all of this together, or aesthetic goals at the same time? Yeah, bro. We're always, oh, let's get away. We did a body, we did a body. We did that body. Two or three times. Body composition one. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably still never happened. Actually, that's not true. I don't want to say too much, but coming up. Oh yeah. We are gonna. Oh, you're right. Are you all right? We do have a little bit of plans in the week. Yeah, that is true. That's exciting. That'll be fun. Most likely that'll be the thing. That's the one that I think all of us want to do. I think that this is gonna be rad, okay. Our next caller is Luke from Pennsylvania. Luke, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hi, how are you guys? Good, good, good, man. Good, it's awesome. Thanks for having me on. Let's do it, Luke, what you got? So I've run altruists for about 13 years, up to like 200 miles and started resistance training about two and a half years ago. And I've grown to like it probably just as much as running. I have two problems. One is I'm basically afraid of weight, increasing weight. I just saw the podcast with the look like you lift guy, Braden Barrett, and he made some real good points. I hear you guys talk about like the benefits of the big three and lifting heavy weights and stuff. But basically, I'm just worried about lifting heavy weight, right? And I was wondering if you guys had any tips on how to get more comfortable with weight.  What are you afraid of? Injury? I think mostly, yeah. Like if something's in like the 10 to 15 rep range, I'll do it and enjoy it and have fun. Once it starts to get heavy, I get a lot more uncomfortable. So I tend to skip like the strength training portions of things, like even with your programs, the strength phase at the beginning, like I would always change the rep range because the five rep thing is like difficult for me to, I don't know, like gauge, I guess almost to. And it's, so it's fear of injuries. It sounds like the main thing. Well, look, there's two things. One is you're not maxing out. So if you're training for three reps, it's three reps of something you can do. So if you're training for three reps, it's three reps of something you could do five or six reps with. Okay. So you're not PRing or not. You don't want to PRing. You have a high risk of injury. Training within that low rep range with the appropriate intensity. Your risk of injury is not much higher than it would be at 10 to 12 reps until you get into the super high weights. You're totally fine. So that's number one. Number two is you can go even lighter and just slow the rep down and perfect the form to make it feel heavier.  You could just make the rep harder so the weight feels heavier and it'll have similar results. And that's how I would start. I would start like that. I would take a weight that I could do weight reps with and can I slow it down enough and make it so that it feels heavy at five reps. And I would start there to get comfortable with the feeling of that kind of tension. I wonder if something like isometrics would help a lot in terms of like, you know, getting that kind of feeling and bracing effect because I'm not sure if it's, there's an uncomfortable feeling there with like breathing and how to properly kind of like stay tight and supported with your joints and like the whole overall system be able to feel, you know, like you're equipped in that exercise. So to, you know, to be able to use like a squat rack and like maybe focus on like a barbell squat where if you can, you can put like these safety bars where you can push up against it and get down in the hole and really like push as hard as you can and drive and just kind of get that sort of systemic effect throughout your body of just being tense and tight and trying to kind of work through that and breathe through that. I'm just trying to think a little outside the box in terms of getting you a little bit more comfortable within that environment. I think too, if you run a true 4-2-2 type of tempo with five reps, the risk and not trying to, you know, PR on it meaning that you still have like one or two in the tank, the likelihood that you're going to injure that under that kind of controlled tempo. Normally what I do see is, and this is more typical with guys, is guys tend to want to load, load, load because they want to, they want to, impressive weight and they care more about that that all of a sudden I see the tempo speeding up, speeding up, speeding up.  But if you stay true to a good four-second, negative two-second pause at the bottom and then come up two seconds and you stay true to that tempo while doing like a five-by-five type of structure, I think you're going to be just fine and keep trying to load the bar to where five reps is challenging underneath that tempo. And set yourself up with safeties. So if you have a rack, you can use safeties to catch the bar. And if your form breaks down even a little bit, you can always drop the weight. You can always dump the weight if you start to feel your form start to break down or move out of perfect. So you'll be totally fine doing that. And practice, I would practice dumping the weight on the safety so you know what it feels like. And then when you get into your set, if you feel yourself shift or your form go off a little bit, just put it down. It's something that you're aware of that you have avoided for so long. The gains will come on. Like crazy if you do this because your body is... Any effort in this direction is going to pay dividends. Yeah, you're already the endurance guy. You're already the 200-miler. So 15, 20, 30 rep and circuit type training and short rest periods is already what you're great at.  Like crazy. I'm going to send you Maps PowerLift because it's literally... I mean, it's all about doing this. And it's all laid out and the program is quite specific. So I'll send that to you so you have something if you want to follow something specific towards this direction. That would be great. Thanks. Yeah, you got it, man. Any other questions? Just the other one is that I sort of have a training like ADHD, right? It's hard for me to stick to a program because I like to do a lot of different things. I enjoy training, right? So it's like my goal is constantly shift, but there's like one goal that I always have is like I have three sons 3, 15, 17 and I never want for them to ask me to do something with them and I have to say no. So I I love using kettlebells. I do hypertrophy stuff. I do body weight stuff. But in the course of a week, I'll do all that stuff. And I know it's not like efficient or like the most effective thing I can do.  Or is it just super inefficient and I should program? Listen, the workout you do consistently is going to be the best workout. It's not like going to give you the best ultimate results. No, but because you do it consistently and you love it, yes, it will. So as long as you're not over-training and you're training appropriately, I mean what you're doing is totally fine. Now if you have a specific goal, like I want to hit a new PR on this lift or then you probably have to get a little bit more specific with your programming.   You like doing different things and you haven't hurt yourself, you're not training it appropriately, I'd say keep doing it. I would just caution you to be mindful of your intensity and approach to all those things, right? So if you have this ADHD, you love endurance, you probably could handle a lot of volume and intensity and so maybe you trained really great that week following MAPS Power Lift and then you're also wanting to do all this kettlebell stuff and stuff with your kids. I would never tell you don't do that stuff with your kids. I'd say that trumps everything. So do that stuff with your kids. But then reduce the intensity dramatically. It should be more like play with your kids with those types of exercises and things like that. Make sure you don't approach it with the same mindset you do when you go for a 200 mile run. And if you can reduce it down and simplify it. I'm sorry. I was just thinking about that because obviously I like that you care to entertain your children and do those activities with them. I think that's very important. So to reduce it down and simplify it just focus on one of those core lifts and treat it as a skill but obviously modify your intensity. But at least that way too you're kind of building and developing that in that direction. So that way say one at some point you do feel inclined to kind of run through an entire program like you've been building slowly and developing that skill on that direction. The intensity is my problem. It's always low. It's rarely like super high. So I train frequently but it's usually I think you're okay though if you train as often as you are you're probably doing the right intensity. Do you feel healthy? Do you feel fit? Do you feel like you could perform? So way better since I've started resistance training than just doing the endurance stuff I feel over Listen, if you train a lot very often you're supposed to train at low to moderate intensity so you're probably doing better than you think. Awesome. Well thanks for calling in Luke. Thanks you guys. You guys are awesome. This guy had forearms on him, huh? Did you see those? Yeah, he looked OCR guy for sure. No, he looked great. What we should have asked and we didn't ask him I'm curious to what his squat and deadlift is because maybe relative to everything that he does and his body stop maybe he's actually pretty damn strong.  It's a practice thing too. Like I 100% will walk up to a squat bar and fear a set of 20 reps. I will fear it. I will not fear a max rep. A max rep for me is like let's do this, right? And it's just because I do one more than the other. It's a practice thing. Once you practice it then you get more comfortable with the feeling of like because if you get good at sets of 12, 15, 20 it's different than a set of 1, 2, and 3. You summon strength differently you summon the force differently it's a different mindset and if you get used to one the other one is like it's just out of your league it's not something you're used to it gets really challenging. You just gotta practice it. Once you practice it it feels no longer scary. I don't think I've ever seen a client or even just like a normal gym goer get hurt in a true 4, 2, 2 tempo. No. It's always somebody who is loading the bar to control. And they're just wanting to put more weight on there and they're in and out of the hole as fast as they can or they're ripping it off the floor as fast as they can. Somebody who is in a controlled 4, 2, 2 I have never seen blow something or hurt somebody. Even if you use a weight that you can't handle because it's slow and controlled enough for you to identify I can't handle this. Look if you like Mind Pump head over to mindpumpfree.com Check out all the free stuff that we give our listeners it's amazing. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump DeStefano and Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. Today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the weak part. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique