Hey, it's time for voice over body shop and George we got a great guest tonight somebody we both know and have known for a long time and there he is and now They're familiar to me actually have to say yeah, really Peter O'Connell there. He is right there wave. Hello and say hi Hello Hello America. Hello world. We're gonna we're gonna talk about marketing for your voice over Business and a bunch of other stuff And if you've got questions for Peter or for George and I throw them in the Facebook chat room Because Jeff Holman I see is in there There's a big J on the mark on the cut document saying that he's in there and he'll relay those questions to us So stay tuned got questions ask listen. We're ready to go here on voice over body shop right now From the outer reaches they came Bearing the knowledge of what it takes to properly record your voice over audio and Together from the center of the VO universe. They bring it to you now George Wittem the engineer to the VO stars of Virginia Tech grad with the skills to build set up and maintain The professional video studios of the biggest names in VO today and you Dan Leonard the voice over home studio master a professional voice down with the knowledge and experience to help you create a professional sounding home VO studio and Each week they allow you into their world Bringing you talks with the biggest names in the voice of a world today Letting you ask your questions and giving you the latest information to make the most of your voice over business Welcome to voice over body shop Voice over body shop is brought to you by voice over essentials calm home of Harlan Hogan signature products Source elements remote studio connections for everyone voice actor websites.com where your VO website isn't a pain in the butt VO heroes calm become a hero to your clients with a word winning voice over training Jmc demos when quality matters and voiceover extra your daily resource for VO success and now Live to drive from their super secret clubhouse and studio in Sherman Oaks, California Here are the guys Hey there, I'm Dan Leonard and I'm George Wittem and this is voice over body shop or a VO Bs Well, welcome to another edition of voice over body shop, but Peter O'Connell be joining us in just a minute But we got to say happy birthday to George who hit the big four seven yesterday Apparently I was a day early for some reason Now he had a big beach party down at down as Santa Monica Beach And he sends out an email and it says on the 18th and I look at my calendar And I'm like oh that's next Wednesday. I'm like no it can't be Wednesday. I look at it again Somehow it ended up the 18th was on Saturday except the 18th was Sunday. It's been a different year I may have been looking at the wrong calendar major league brain part. It was the Russian Yeah, Jewish calendar actually, maybe that's what it was 5780 82 or 5781 Anyway, and but our guest tonight. Yes, so I called George. I get down to tower 28 at Santa Monica Beach And he says I'll have a canopy about ten paces to the left of tower 28 the guard tower there And there's a canopy there and I walk over. I'm like, I don't know any of these people So I called George and he is talking to our guest Peter jail Peter K. O'Connell. There he is The whole thing unfold ladies and gentlemen, he's telling the truth and Leonard was lost again in LA So funny the timing the coincidence the fact that it was you Peter in the zoom room the whole thing was just remarkable Yes, anyway, mr. O'Connell here is an expert on Marketing I am not yes. Well, at least he's got a company that does that Add a voice artist and your free your friendly neighborhood voiceover guy Peter welcome once again to voiceover body shop. Good to see you. Nice to see you. Thank you for coming to see me I I was thinking that I was last time I was really remember being on the show was show number three in your basement back in Amherst, New York Well, that had to have been almost nine and a half years ago Because that's how long we've been doing the show. Oh, I remember but it was fun We were down there and I think it was you me at George and I think Diane Merritt was watching I think that was it was early. Yeah ratings a little lower back that. Yeah, not not anymore We got lots of viewers out there and we appreciate having watch. Yeah If you've got a question about marketing your voiceover business Peter's the guy to ask but I'm gonna ask him a bunch of questions So perhaps some of the questions I ask him will make you think of another question to ask him And you can throw it in the Facebook chat room or if you're on On YouTube you can throw it in the YouTube chat room as well Anyway, so welcome once again. How has your life been during all of this? Craziness and how has it affected your business speaking my life has been fine and my family's life has been fine and we have been Not terribly adversely affected by all this in that Everyone's healthy We all have jobs the kids were not in school For the last half of last year from about March through the end of the year. That was a special time Oh, yeah, and I'm schooling and and then this year they're back at school and they're on different schedules But they're back at school down here in in Raleigh, North Carolina alright right, so Now you and I are from Buffalo, New York Yes, as a matter of fact, I think you and I held the very first voiceover meetup group ever when you and I had coffee Yes, yes, the very first one of the very first ones And then and then we and then Diane Merritt came into town and then and then I did we decided to formalize the Buffalo Meetup Group and I and I told you to I got you on the phone. I said, I don't time to do this You have to do this. You're like what? I'm like just do this And we created heard around Buffalo. Yes, which is and which is still around today Maria Pendolino Our friend Maria still runs that and they get together to casually invite me But most oftentimes they say, oh, just leave him off the list. Did you spell heard correctly? Yes H-E-A-R-B That's a good I love I'm a sucker for dumb puns that one is fantastic. You're welcome. Yes Anyway, so, you know, you know, we both grew up in Buffalo, but like me moving out here to California You also have transplanted yourself to North Carolina. What was the transition like for you? Oh It wasn't too bad. The move was a bit of pain in the butt Yes, well, we were talking about moving For a while came down and picked Raleigh, but we hadn't quite decided That we're gonna do it. We're doing it for my in-laws because my F father-in-law got older and had some issues and and needed to move south to for weather, etc And I was gonna do this. We're gonna go down move with them. We decided I made the decision on June 7th And by August I think was the 16th or 15 We were in Raleigh in an apartment and the kids were starting school in a couple days after that. Yeah That's how we did that boom boom boom boom boom it took a little while to sell the house Not too long, but we're an apartment Raleigh and I had a mortgage. That was fun. That's a special time And but we've I've loved it down here. We've all loved it down here. They're very nice people It's a lovely area and no one else come you all stay where you are But we really like it down here and the voiceover folks have been great I started a voiceover meet-up group down here The rdu vo group is has been around for about four years and made a lot of great friends Many of whom we all know folks like roll Gorman and Wendy zeer are familiar names to some voiceover folks here They are they live down here and Deb stamp who's a former Buffalo person who is down here as well She has joined our group and there's some other great talents down here So it's been it's been terrific and made friends with a lot of the studios down here I've been able to do some local work Got my my biggest project down here is probably for NC State University So the big big college basketball powerhouse. I've done some work for them Not that's not the basketball program. They don't want a short-fed Irish guy doing any of the coursework But for the other parts of the school, it's a big school. I got lots of room for voiceover Absolutely, it's great. Now you you also have this fascinating business in marketing now I remember taking a class in marketing at Buffalo State College. Yes, but I think I got a D in Well, and that was before they had electric light. Yes, it was a long time ago Yeah, we had yet. Well, we had a quite crank the lights to get them on. Okay, fair enough So I imagine marketing has probably changed. I remember bits and pieces But then again remember I was a senior in college at the time With one step out the door one foot out the door Yeah, and and my brain somewhere else but Explain to us, you know, what exactly is marketing? I mean people hear this phrase all the time and I'm like How do I market my business? Yeah, what does that mean? Well, I think to come up with a definition is is is difficult marketing It's between marketing and branding marketing is is Are the tools that you use to get your yourself out there and branding is how the customer perceives Who you are in the marketplace? Is is basically that marketing advertising? It's I look at it all is kind of the same Basically, I look at it as as as the tools and the plan that you put together for your business whether you be a voiceover person or a an architect or you be a an accountant You know every business has to get out there and try and drum up new business You know marketing's efforts include things like advertising But marketing is sort of the overarching umbrella if you will That that you use a variety of different tools that people are familiar with things like a direct mail networking The internet websites and social media all break down into channels of marketing That's a kind of a brief just general overview that I think most people understand The part that I think confuses them.  I think that's great But I you know, I think the general rule of thumb with people is If you're doing a little bit of marketing efforts every day, you'll be better off than most people in your industry For voiceover or for any business. Yeah, I think people forget that the voiceover is not show business It's an entrepreneurial business that you really are responsible for getting your own work Everybody's like, oh, I'm gonna get an agent and then suddenly I'm gonna be Mr. Successful and it's not like that at all Is it? No But it but it hasn't been I think I think that Probably was on the downs down turn When I started and I started in 82 I think it was still a positive, you know Lafontaine was still in the in the limousine at that time going to different studios and going back and forth for his promo work And then, you know, probably after maybe 10 years after that I think George you may know better than I did around 92 95. Did you have a studio by then? I Think so I didn't know him until 10 years after that Okay, I do believe based on the vintage of the equipment that was in the studio when I went in there Yeah, like a Dolby fax was in there You know interesting old gear, you know, so yeah, he he was in there at the very early stages with that stuff Oh, I mean, you know the the sort of my agent will get me all the work I think that'll still be true in Los Angeles.  You need to find other ways To say hey, you know, let's let's start working together and generally speaking That has less to do with hi, it's me. I'm great Let me tell you what I am and who I am and rather, you know, let's work together How can we help build our businesses? How can we you know, how can we develop a relationship? that we that allows us to work together and The you know, you can go to all the marketing schools in the world You want and spend all the money in college, but the bottom line of all of that is that Given the choice People prefer to do business with people they like or their friends Now you can't be friends with everybody, right? That's not going to be practical But you've got to do something that allows you you've got to craft some sort of Brand or presence in the minds of those people who you want to hire you That makes them want to do work with you And there and I think we can all name fairly quickly two or three voiceover talents That we see online whose branding we've seen over and over we're excellent at that just from a From a communication standpoint with videos and all the rest of it just not just on social media But I mean in the other things that they do I know I know there's a bunch of them That I've I've learned from you know, and I'm you know I do it okay, but you know you can always learn and these folks are great at it And I think that is probably if you're gonna take one thing away from this discussion Find out how you can be more authentic how you can develop more of a relationship With the people that you're that you're going after You know, I've told people for years and years all of this starts in a database You know and I don't care if your database is a thousand people or ten people just make them you know, make them the right thousand or make them the right ten people and you will have a better chance of creating You know creating those relationships that you need and yes, it takes time and yes It's painstaking which is why you always have to do it. Yeah, so now remember from answer. I'm sorry if that was long winded No, that was the actually the answer I was looking for so Yeah, I used to be in the life insurance business, which is the same thing You know, we had to you know, it was like you create these circles of influence and stuff like that and you had to communicate with everybody to try and say can I have an appointment with you and try and sell yourself but Voiceover is a little different because you're selling an interesting commodity, which is your voice When when you're trying to market your voice, you know, like I say, you know, every voice is different Every room is different. So everybody's home studio has to be, you know, custom built I would imagine that would probably be the same for someone's marketing plan as well Well, I think I think there's overlapping similarities of the channels that you probably are going to use but what you do in those channels what you do in a Direct mail letter how you present yourself the words start to become important but also Important in that is is the you know, gonna start with the database that in a database is nothing more than a fancy You know, $2,000 word for name address phone number email address, etc information of the people that you that you have and then in addition to that Beyond just beyond just the contact information is is how you're setting up that relationship with that person And how many times you you're able to touch them? Through your marketing tools without being obnoxious, of course But you know to make that make yourself stand out in front of them, you know, or just a quick example Say you sent out a just an email Message to somebody to say hi George, how are you? I happen to check out your website and I and I really like what you did with with your widget company And I think that would be terrific Tell me more about how you guys created that new widget. I saw on the screen, you know Just to develop a relationship and see if you get a response back then you send out a handwritten note And then you send up a follow-up email or so, you know, you've hit them a couple times I'm giving you bad examples here But but the point is however, whatever your message is you're hitting them Two three or four times to get their attention. So at some point, they're kind of remembering you now That may take place over a six to nine months a 12 month period. Okay, like I said, it's not going to be fast That's why the database is important because you need to have a Variety of these names to be able to go out to these folks and do the same process So and and you're if you're staggering them, you're doing that over different times Then you've got it You get you sort of building a base of people you're you're marketing to and and when you've hit one Oh, you don't want to touch them for another three months Oh, but the one I called three months ago time to contact them again and That's sort of what I what I mean by staggering the Staggering the database and reaching out to these people and keeping those Those leads going Yeah, how do you decide who to contact? I mean, I I think that's probably The hardest part about you know running the sifter here and seeing what comes out the other end What's a good way to find people to contact? darts, okay just I Think it it's based on a couple things You can you can decide it any way you want and the internet The good and the bad and the ugly of the internet means the internet LinkedIn everybody talks to LinkedIn turns to LinkedIn When you're on LinkedIn, it's like oh, I can contact anybody You know suddenly you realize how big the world is like, okay, maybe I need to You know what I recommend is bites not gulfs. Okay, so start start small Start in your city start in your county start in your state and and Talk to those people that you want to reach out to well This goes into the target marketing aspect of things say you are a Game voice You're an animation voice. You are you know, you want to be in games, you know You're not necessarily a commercial person You're going to go after a different lead prospect game developers game producers freelance graphic designers who design games Variety of different job categories that you can find Either in online directories or in LinkedIn or in a variety of different places, you know, sometimes even Game conventions you meet people at game conventions. That's just one example Say then you're going to go after those folks within a geographic target because again, you're not going to be able to take on the world So pick the target that you're comfortable with also, you know beyond getting off to, you know The large number of people figure out you as a person and as a temperament as a business owner What's a reasonable amount of people for you to reach out to at a time? Yeah, now if you're doing relationship marketing Email blasts are you know, maybe okay fine, but you're not you're not developing a relationship on email blasts You may be able to develop a relationship with an email, you know Customized email that you've written to somebody specifically talking about what they what they do and and who they are and want to just tell Look, you know, see if you can start a relationship that way if they're open to that But an email blast, which is just gonna say hey, I'm here. That doesn't work So but if you're looking at yourself as a business person, can you contact three people a day or is that a lot? or can you contact ten people a day and and set for yourself in my opinion a A goal for the day I'm fine if every every voice over talent on this program watching this program live or Delayed and tape is saying, you know what I'm gonna get one new lead a day That's fine. That's great. You'd be doing better than most people on this call You know George are you looking for one new lead a day? Maybe not Dan. Are you doing that? Maybe maybe not but just one me one new lead a day and and I'm telling you The world is your oyster for somebody's I don't have if somebody says to me I don't have time to get one new lead a day. You're in a wrong business game over You're you shouldn't be in business. You should be working for someone and let them do that much better time spent and pursuing Countless and countless auditions on some of those pay-to-plays. Yeah, exactly I mean, I get why people think that's that can be value before them because some people really do well on pay-to-plays Or some people really do well on you know Answering cattle call auditions from some agents. I I'm not making fun of that is again It's a marketing channel But I'm talking about going after business that you're going to be directly responsible for the pay-to-plays Don't care if you work your agents Care if you work more but still will never care as much about you working as you are going to care about you working Yeah, you are responsible for yourself George is responsible for for his business Dan is in mind me and mine We're all responsible for that and and you know what the nice thing about the business is that when we get it We get 100% of the commission Absolutely, if you're just joining us our guest is Peter K. O'Connell voice actor Marketing expert and consultants and if you've got a question for them throw it in our Facebook chat room or in the YouTube chat room depending on where you happen to be watching and Jeff Holman will be relay that question to us and we'll get to that in just a little bit How has this pandemic changed things now? Obviously I asked you how has it changed things for you Yeah, but how has it changed the marketplace in in your percent? I think a lot of things have changed the marketplace I really do and I don't know you if you guys have covered this. I think the pandemic has changed it I think The discussions about race and racism have changed the marketplace And I think in a lot of ways for the better, but I think a lot the marketplace has changed Because advertisers for a while shut down and then advertisers came back and then we you know We had important discussions about race in this country and some people were listening and suddenly you started hearing different voices Then you were ever hearing before on ads and commercials and narrations Etc. And that changed the marketplace And you know in a good way But also it changes it if it if it It was if there were voice talents before who are not getting work who are now getting work That means that other voice talents who were getting work may not be getting as much work So that's there's been a lot of shifts I think and and Dan I got to think you've you've noticed that as well and it's okay I mean that's just it's we live in a cyclical market We live in a cyclical world, which is you know for guys like me I offer a lot of versatility with with the things that I do some people offer one or two things You know, I've got a I've got a vocal range. That's all over the place You don't you know go go low go high, you know characters and all the rest of it so I have the ability to sort of Be chameleon like and I'm not saying that egotistically I'm just saying for the in response to your question. How does it impact me? I just you know, if I was doing one kind of work before I do another kind of work now And I've seen commercial work go down, but narration work go up. I have seen a lot more message on hold I have seen a little less character work. I don't know what that means But that's just what I and I and I've seen that both in my work And I've also seen that in auditions. I haven't seen as much character work in auditions Now, maybe I'm not getting those auditions and maybe they're all on pay-to-plays and I don't do pay-to-plays But you know, that's the sort of change that I've seen in the marketplace. What about you? What have you seen? Well, I mean George and I will attest to this that We've seen a tremendous increase in people needing help with home studios More about voiceover and well, yeah, and in voiceover. Yeah, I've seen a number of changes You know clearly there is a push for diversity Which we're seeing a lot of in in specs, you know, it'll say you know diversity and it's like oh, okay We know what that what that means and that's okay because you know, we want people to be equally represented But it seems to be a lot of Like you're saying narration work There's there's a fair amount of a lot of business-to-business marketing from what I've seen has really gone up Yeah, and you know, you see a lot of auditions to that for that Europe seemed to be quiet for a while and then that came back and there's a lot of stuff coming from there But you know, I again, I'm not on the pay-to-plays I'm gonna be fascinated to see what happens in the fourth quarter now as we get into Christmas as we get into the high-buying season For a number of reasons and it's gonna impact voiceover We've seen the number of retailers going out of business or declaring chapter 11 not out of business not chapter 7 is you know Gonzo you're done, but a lot of chapter 11. How are they? You know, how are they going to deal with that me? You know my kids and I were just driving the other day and we saw what used to be a pier one Which is just an empty shell of a building and that and that that's just one example of a retail chain that's gone And not that they were doing a boatload radio or television spots, but they were doing some and I think that's I think that is impacted You know the commercial marketplace a lot and I think that's gonna impact the voiceover It's got impact the advertising agencies which impacts the video production companies which impacts the recording studios Which goes on that on the other hand. I think Because a lot of people are home. I think the gaming business, you know like this up We go because there's a lot of developers are just trying to push out new games And you know and parents want those games to keep their kids quiet Yeah, and we've seen a lot of that out here in California is that no he's going to movies. Yeah, that's nobody's going to move Oh my gosh, and and how about how about the news that came across for the theater actor, brethren in New York and etc They're not opening up till summer of 2021 at the earliest Broadway is shut down. Yeah So just think what that does to to New York and I mean, I know people are saying New York City is in a bad way Boy, oh boy. No theater even worse when so much of your city's Income is tied into tourism.   I guess the important thing is And I think there's some people who just are so Scared to get involved in any sort of marketing or any sort of communication outbound outbound communication Let's call it that outbound communication. That's not called marketing marketing is a scary term. That's a $10,000 word Let's call it outbound communication They've got to be doing that now. They've got to be doing it now because it takes at least Two months for to really start to make something happen occasionally occasionally something can happen like that But by and large and you guys have owned your own businesses for a long time Tell me if I'm wrong it takes time for the marketing to kick in am I right or am I wrong six months in the life insurance business It was always six months from the initiation of business to actual fruition of business And I saw that at the six month turnover of the pandemic that business had a significant uptick Personally from the stuff that I did then George. What about you? Yeah, I mean I my my mark. I don't have any solid marketing traditionally because I just spend I Just put all my time into the social media because I'm in so many of these conversations Yeah, and that's where so I don't I haven't done traditional marketing in some time. That's like, I guess maybe I'm lucky I haven't maybe needed to or whatever it is But that's where I've invested my time because because because what I But I Think video is a great tool and we haven't talked about it because we talked about direct mental birth But video is a great tool and it can be a good tool for voiceover as well It has it's upside and it's downside and and I don't know if you guys are going here You can stop me if you want to go on the question Yeah, I mean what let's talk about that in the next segment because that is something I wanted to cover And we've got a lot of questions from our vast worldwide audience So stay tuned. We'll be right back with Peter K. O'Connell talking about Marketing or perhaps we'll call it professional outreach. How's that sound? All right, we'll be right back and voiceover body shop. Don't go away Hello, welcome to voiceover body shop. It's a place.  At target we want you to come as you are be comfortable. 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Thanks for watching the voiceover body shop If you're demo ready or looking to get there check out JMC demos comm and see a sample of our work Now let's get back to Dan and George and this week's tech wisdom Getting into VO is quite an accomplishment and accomplishing anything in the world of performance can be really tough Getting great information is tough getting the right advice and mentoring is tough Simply getting ahead is tough and the best way to get ahead is to simply get started Let's make it simple to get started in voice over the best way is with VO heroes free online course Getting started in voice over You'll learn everything you need to know to create a successful satisfying and profitable voice over career The link is really simple. Here it is VO heroes comm forward slash Start again, that's VO heroes comm forward slash start get ahead in voice over simply by Getting started go to VO heroes comm forward slash start You know, I used to live in Buffalo, New York But now I'm in sunny, Southern, California But no matter where you are when you need equipment strictly for voice over There's only one place to go and that's voice over essentials comm and right now is the time to get with Harlan Hogan signature series VO one a voice over microphone They also have the fabulous sentrance mic port pro 2 with limiter in stock. In fact, it's the only version they sell Now a limiter is a must-have especially when recording oneself with no engineer to ride game for you By the way, it's the most amazing limiter. They've encountered It's impossible to detect and it's incredibly quiet and they've upgraded the port-a-booth pro quick script LED light Now it has two goose necks all the better to read your script Go on over to voice over essentials right now to get these great voice over essential products Yeah, hi, this is Carlos. I was rocking the voice of Rocco, and you're watching voice over body shop We're back With Peter Peter O'Connell talking about marketing and apparently my mustache and stuff like that Um That's teasing. Yeah, we've got a bunch of great questions from our Vast worldwide audience and we're glad that you guys are glad to make up some answers for them. Okay. Good. And that's my dad's line Stop it My dad's my dad is a docent in a museum, and that's one of his favorite lines Swimmingly for sure Alrighty Let's start off with a couple audience questions George You're the first that came in right at the beginning was he actually emailed as well. So he really wants this answered This is from Jim McNichol Jim McNicholas, and he says, um, I've got a question for Peter your guests when Prospecting where do you find new clients when trying to market your voice? Okay, you're prospecting. Where do you start? Well again? We briefly touched on this earlier It depends on the genre that you're going into So let's just assume That that you're going to be like most voiceover talents and want to work in commercial And so you're gonna want to focus on those folks who do who do the commercial production By and large those are freelance audio producers. They are advertising agencies and they are recording studios depending, you know, and that's The some recording studios do some recording studios don't some advertising agencies do some advertising agencies don't and There's some there's video production companies, of course who also Do need voiceovers for all these things that you want to probably get involved in their roster? So I would start out again Jim looking at where you where you're targeting. I'd probably start out in a regional way You know, I'd look, you know from a couple counties over I don't know You know, if you're in the middle of podunk nowhere, you know, and you know, you don't have a neighbor for 200 miles You're gonna have to go a ways But you're gonna want to do your research again linked in as a tool All the hubs out there for a production hub, etc There's a variety of different Resources that will list those types of folks like recording studios, etc video production studios that That are out there that you can probably contact but before you contact them. Don't just go for a phone number No matter where you're going for prospects I would recommend that you go after a person and really target the person Sometimes it's not the CEO of the advertising agency in most cases unless it's a pretty small advertising agency Where he's the CEO and the janitor you're probably going to look for either the creative director or Or media producer As a job title As far as the the person that you would like to try and reach out to and get as much information as possible If you want, you know, if you can't find the actual person online Don't be afraid to call up the agency and say if you don't know the name of the person couldn't find the name of the Person you can call them up and ask them just very simply. Hi My name is Jim McNichols and I would like to talk to the person who is in charge of audio production for your clients Projects or video production for your clients projects. Who would that be and then just listen? Because at that point the person on the phone if they haven't hung up on you already Good sign if they haven't mom will probably put you oh, I can I can direct you to a person now Both if they say that you got to be ready for this. Okay, this is the little jig This is a little dance. You have to be ready to do it. Oh before you connect me Can you give me the name of that person just so I have it down here because sometimes they just click press a button And you get transferred over and you're like hi This is Jim and I just asked to be transferred to the person might hire voiceovers or do audio radio production Who am I speaking with which is awkward? But if you get a name and it's like oh Nancy Jones hi Nancy. This is Jim. I own a voiceover production company. I understand you're in charge of usually Casting voiceover talents or in fact keeping a roster at the agency of voiceover talents. Do I have that right? Yes, you do Jim and I'd love to put you on the roster and this will be great So there's the answer to your prospecting question. I hope All right, I'm very good. I'm very thorough one because I aimed to please And that's why you're here Sarah Mitchell says hey Peter. Do you use a spreadsheet or CRM? Yes, next question next question. Oh, you want me to elaborate on that? Oh, I'm just just a little bit. I'm sorry Yes, I do and I'm very I'm very big on CRM's and I know I'm not going to recommend a CRM but Excel spreadsheets are a CRM. So our our three by five index cards I don't care where you keep the names and how you keep them because much like marketing programs CRMs are as individual as The as as the user so you have to find the system Whether it be act contact software or our Microsoft Outlook or one of the more social media platform like Nimble Something like that. I myself Use Google contacts and I I send out all my stuff With whether via mail or whatever in Google contacts I keep I keep a track of when I've talked to somebody And when I have emailed somebody or when I have communicated with them and when I talked to them I put it in the in the note box in there and that's that's CRM is free that works for me I tag them I have them tagged so all the rosters that I'm on they get a certain tag on them And if they're in the state of Colorado, I have a tag for them If they're video production, I have a tag for them So it depends on on who they are and how they relate to me and and how I might use them But that's how my brain works You don't have to do it the way I do it You have to do it the way it works best for Sarah, but I highly recommend Some sort of organizational tool that will allow you to keep track of not only the names and information about the people but how and when and why you Contacted them or Why they contacted you because Sarah you sound like an intelligent young person at some point You're going to be old and feeble like Dan And when you are you're going to go to the birthday parties on the wrong day, and then you're going to forget also why in fact Why in fact that you this person from three years ago contacted you and so you're gonna want to have that written down and Dan that's just gonna be a theme for the rest of the show. I have a feeling. Yeah I just well listen. It's been a theme for my life for the past few months anyway, buddy It's like I said like I said before we've all been there. Yeah Yeah, you see they was George's birthday, and then I realized I'm 16 years older than him. So it's like Yeah, yeah, so you're 47. Yep, pretty much Nine years younger than me. Wow. We and we've all been there and just in Dan's case. It was a day early Randy Thomas Randy says LinkedIn is a treasure trove And then she says do you ever reach out beyond the marketing or programming people and go up the chain to like the CEOs? I would do that in certain situations but by and large my my experience your mileage may vary Randy is That sometimes the people who are making the decisions are the people that I'm contacting and when I go Too far up the ladder. They go. Why are you contacting my boss?  You know, they don't like that. That's how that's how some women talk Getting it's a joke. Let me joke So I don't like to do that now if I am at a networking event Say for an ad club and I'm with a creative director, but I happen to meet the president of the agency You know networking. I'd no one remembers networking since March But we all used to get together shake hands talk to people have drinks. It was a lot of fun back in the old days In the in olden days, but but then I have no problem reaching out to those folks But you really can in all seriousness You know burn a little bit of a bridge if if the person who you are you should be contacting and who's been a good partner in all this Finds out that you've contacted their boss Without their knowledge or you know because there's politics involved in every business and boy Is there politics in places like advertising agencies and video production studios and so careful day tread carefully? Yeah Uh Linda Joyce Minor says how many media sites? Which ones should I spend time? using I don't really really I Didn't ask the question. Okay How many media sites? Which media sites? Okay? It's Let's George while you're there Would you just go on Google and just go media sites and give me the number that comes up in the search It's got to be something like I don't know two million. So I'm teasing Linda and I'm making fun, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by media sites if you mean social media sites or if you mean Production media sites I think you have to go where the fishing is best and like a good fisherman a Fisherman of a fisher of prospects rather than a fisher of men You have to spend some time in various holes You know with your with your line in the water, you know fishing away trying to figure out Who you know where the best fish are so I guess I'd say you have to figure that out I think if you're looking at a local from a local or regional area For example, I would start with something as simple as ad clubs advertising clubs the marketing Association the American marketing Association has has Has clubs all over the country And some of those folks are straight marketing and strategic and analytical marketing They have nothing to do with More consumer business to business marketing as far as the creative side of things Those are the creative people are the ones you're gonna want to talk to So you've got to be careful who you're talking to again in a particular Agency but ad clubs and advertising Federation clubs AAF are good for that and then the Marketing the marketing clubs are good for that in your in your area or region. That's why I would start. Yeah Let's cover this one for a second because we were talking about talking about this and that is the use of video For marketing yourself, you know now George and I do this show every week, which has been very successful It is great. And that's why everyone knows you guys at studio masters. That's right And that's why and that's why it was always about shameless, you know promotion But what about is born him and which one is Bailey? I always get that We won't go there But how can one wisely use video in in their marketing campaign? I think you can use it wisely as long as it fits in with the persona or the brand That you're trying to espouse and and has Relevance to your audience You know, I was I do I've done videos in the past demo videos which Sort of, you know, basically highlight the audio and have some informational graphics on there But I was I was telling George in the break what that sounds like real television So George and I were talking in the break while doc and the band were playing next door that I was at VO north this weekend the conference they had the virtual conference the ten you can and Derva trainer put on up in Toronto for all of Canada that it was virtual but a couple of Three of the casting directors were talking about somebody mentioned video Demos and we've all seen these video demos now that have become quite popular where people put together audio auto demos car demos You know Audio car demos with the actual spots or or stock footage to make it look like a real car commercial And they put these demos together and the casting directors are looking at this going Why are they doing that? I don't want to see it. I don't want I don't want to I don't have the image But in my mind I want to hear it. I got it. I'm here for the audio So to your point Dan it it makes a bit of a difference How you know what you're using it for And I and I'll just you know, it's your marketing too as well because I think your your the end user or the client That owns the dealership I'd be more impressed by that than a casting director might be right, right? I think so also but but again by and large when it comes to auto dealers You know, there are some auto dealers and some dealerships that do have marketing directors that do the hiring for that but I'm finding more and more there are Advertising auto marketing groups that work with large regions of the country and national Areas of the country I'm putting together specific campaigns for your local car dealership So in many cases your local car dealerships marketing campaign is being done by a guy in Cincinnati You're living in LA that type of thing So I guess you know and and but you're right there could be those people out there again There's so many people making these decisions. You're not going to know how or when or who the right people are to get So that's part of the confusion. And so there is no perfect formulation for this There is no algebraic equation that makes it absolutely perfect Darts again. We're talking darts So, you know as you use video use it in a way that you think is true to your brand that That speaks well to your targeted audience and again figure out who your audience is for your video for your voiceover demo for your social media Memes or graphics whatever you're doing you need to have begin with the end in mind was a famous Marketing to I'm going to forget it forget the fellow's name and I'm sorry somebody look it up on the web for me begin with the end in mind But so who is your audience and then back everything else up out of that that those are the people I want to reach I want to reach. I want to reach video production Casting directors. Okay, those people like this kind of message I'm going to create that kind of message and then I'm going to back up all my My tasks that I have to do to make that message hit at the correct time That's correct, you know with the correct message and the correct graphics from there So if videos a part of that do it because I think video can be a very effective tool But I think the best thing to do is to allow your brand to share your message of who you are Because you know, they're gonna listen to your voice, but at the end of the day How are you gonna help them? What is it that you're going to do as a voice-over talent? It's gonna make a difference in their lives or make their lives easier That's what your marketing and ultimately your brand needs to be about. Yeah, I think but Stephen Covey by the way I read the book, but it was the 80s Yes, it's as much as I remember marketing from you know from 40 years ago, and I didn't know the answer by the way That was of course Off To you that's okay You got the question from Richard Bay there George sure thing let you ask this one From Richard Bay, this is always this is a good one which page in Google has all the leads for voice over Nah, he wants something a little more a little more Nebulous, I think that's a tariff. What is what is your prediction for the future of voice over? We're all screw um, I Don't know I you know if I had that if look Richard if I had that answer would I be on this show? No, I Joke I'm with friends. No, I don't know I think that it will always be a situation of those who have Who do the right amount of work to keep their business going and and focus their Branding marketing communication efforts, even if it's just phone calls and and you never send a letter or never put a Put a graphic or picture on an Instagram post whatever the simple thing that is that works for you merged with talent and sprinkled with some luck and timing Yeah, again timing is important here is it always is you know Joe Cipriano tells the famous story in his book on air of how he was on the air As a weekend disc jockey at kiss FM and the fellow who was the voice for Fox was going on vacation for a couple weeks And they needed somebody and they heard Joe Cipriano's voice on a weekend air shift on the radio I like that guy Rest is history. So there's a little bit of luck in there. Joe Joe wasn't marketing for that He's just trying to pay his bills trying to pay his bills He's trying to try and keep his kids fed on kiss FM on the weekend Which I'm sure was not necessarily a glamorous a glamorous spot, but nonetheless. Hey, it was it was still Los Angeles So and and I think it was kiss AM if I'm recalling the story correct It wasn't even you know 1027 it was kiss AM back when I think AM was that a little bit more impact but again luck is involved with it and So I don't know where that's all going to go is you know artificial intelligence going to take over and we're just going to have all computerized voices in my heart of hearts, I don't think so and actually Be a north this conversation came up as well and just top of mind because it was just it was we were just in the conference, but the point of it was and I think it was during Lizzie was doing the list Dinesh narrow Dinesh narrow was doing the telephony conference and somebody asked her about about that and and her point was well taken Regarding people want to hear the human voice and boy, I tell you even on a recording people have a sense as of right now When it usually is a recorded voice versus a human voice And I know that a lot of companies for example have gone have gotten away from having a receptionist at the front desk because you know There's a salary. There's FICA. There's somebody else. You got to invite to the Christmas party a lot of expenses We don't like those expenses and they you know and the CFO says we don't need that. We can just get a system It's cheaper. It's better. The customers don't care, you know And they press a button and they get to the person who also has voicemail saying hi This is Jerry and I'm not here Jerry's never there. Do you ever notice that Jerry never answers the phone? Not once not once yeah, but I mean but people want to deal with with with a person and and someone would least Seems to be human and I know we have some technology that's changing it But I think at the end of the day, I don't I don't think we're gonna want to no matter what generation you're at Millennials Xers whatever it is, you know, I just think that human element is still gonna be very very important Yeah, but we'll see don't buy stock in that. Yeah, well Peter Thanks so much for for joining us this week. Hopefully it won't be another 10 years till you join us again And if people want to get ahold of you if they want some help with their marketing, I'm sure you'll you are professionally Trained and ready to help them. How would they get in touch with you? Certified marketing executive darn it. I have a diploma and everything. I got all right. Cool I'm from the University of Dayton. Yes, the same University of Dayton that should have won the NCAA men's basketball this year had not that I'm not better Peter KO Connell calm or audio Connell calm if you if you just Google Peter KO Connell You'll find me and if you want some help and you did you have a little money Then that's great because my stuff ain't free except for these guys Right. Well, we we gave them a lot of the what not necessarily a lot of the how Peter Thanks so much for being with us tonight. It was gentlemen. It was good to see you and and Dan Thanks for giving me a call George always a pleasure Continued success success with your show. Thank you and Continued success at North Carolina and we'll hopefully all get together again soon. I hope so. Thank you so much. All righty Peter KO Connell. All right, we'll be right back to wrap things up right after these messages in a world of voices One place wasn't VO buzz weekly voice over body shop the better one in these modern times Every business needs a website when you need a website for your voice acting business There's only one place to go like the name says voice actor websites calm Their experience in this niche webmaster market gives them the ability to quickly and easily get you from concept to live online In a much shorter time when you contact voice actor websites calm Their team of experts and designers really get to know you and what your needs are they work with you to highlight What you do then they create an easily navigable website for your potential clients to get the big picture of who you are And how your voice is the one for them plus voice actor websites calm has other great resources Like their practice script library and other resources to help your voice over career flourish Don't try it yourself go with the pros voice actor websites calm where your VO website shouldn't be a pain in the you know what? 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That's voice over x t r a dot com This is the latin lover narrator from jane the virgin anthony mendez and you're enjoying dan and george on the voiceover body shop heavy wave And we're back here on voiceover body shop to at least say goodbye for this segment Our thanks again to peter k o connell for talking to us about marketing. We haven't really covered that a whole lot lately Have we know so well? Anyway, uh, one of the things we have that keeps the show going is our donors and who are our donors of the week We got donors. We've got lots and lots of donors name that show remember that song it's Uh, it was about mail, but I can't remember what it was. It was uh, it was um Letterman. Oh, yeah. Oh, that was well. It was the song came before that but yeah, I used you used it Yeah, and it was the one who are our donors of the week. Okay. Sorry michael urn's graham spicer larry hudson sarah borges philips appear trey speaks for you and ant land productions all very familiar names probably because they're subscribers And we clicked on the link and they subscribe to paypal And you know for as little as a buck read your name on the show.  It's top of mind sometimes You know, I heard that guy's name recently. You're right. I should give that guy a call. We should cast him smart people Subscribing marketing is donor ad buy right there. Yeah. So anyway, you can subscribe or just make a Single little donation if you picked up something really valuable during the show. All right Uh, yes, uh tv. Yes, uh coming up next week is tech talk number 42 43 it's 43. Yeah, we just did 42. So it'll be tech talk 43 coming up next week Hey, join our mailing list too. If you go to our website, uh v obs dot tv. There's a little button there It says subscribe And people have been doing that. Yeah, we have we're like like over well over 700 people on that list We want to get it up to a thousand. So it's less than 300 to go there Um, also we need to thank our amazing sponsors for which we wouldn't be doing any of this Uh, like for example harlan hogan's voiceover essentials Voiceover extra soris elements bo heroes dot com voice actor websites dot com and jmc demos Also our thanks to jeff holman for running doing a great job in the chat room And our technical director tonight with a little assistance from mom is hat merlino Did a great job. Take a hat off for hat. You did a great job. He just tipped his hat Okay, and lee penny for being lee penny. Well, we got tech talk coming up next and next week So stay tuned for that if you got tech questions, throw them in the chat room In the meantime, i'm dan Leonard. I'm george woodham. And this is voiceover body shop or vo bs Have a great week everybody. Good night