Yeah, we on boss talk one-on-one. Yeah, we gonna Name another podcast like this. We're gonna bring it to the table boss talk Check it. Check it. Check it. It's a unique. Oh sister boy. He's CEO and I'm here with the lovely amazing official mr. Mako. What's going on? No, no, you know my dad walk on man. We got a guy here today y'all hey This is this is my guy. Hey, man. He always got something going to man I see a man. We got a lot to talk about today, man Mr.. Pippin Ken himself is in the building on boss talk one-on-one. What's up, brother? Hey, man? Hey, man, everything up, man, you know costs a little price of kuchi everything Man, man, just good to see you man. Look at look. Hey looking great, man Look the brother the brother be on it man. You know I'm saying I gotta make me out I got a step. Okay, all that walking.  It's all about what you eat Okay, I got a walker.  I see the books right here, man Oh, yeah, yeah, so so I seen you just to just to go back a little bit I seen you just here recently with Boosie on beehive and I had seen you guys You know just doing doing doing the interview. I seen him on there The book just explained me about the book cross the tracks. What what's going on with that? Okay, well, uh, I wrote a book called the 48,000 games, right and It did extremely well for my publishing company, which is Simon Schuster, which is owned by CBS it's one of the biggest companies in the world and Initially the people up there didn't think that the book was gonna do well, you know because they really ain't Into us, you know, I mean they really into our culture and you know, the guy Jeremy who's my Publishers publisher and he was arguing that this go this book is gonna do well, you know And eventually the book sold millions and millions and millions of copy. I Broke the record as it is 20th printing. I don't know if you know what that means I mean that they had to reprint it 20 times usually it go out of print mine is still and so I offer them to buy My printing back the other day and he said no hell no And Richie Rich is in the car with me was laugh.      He said can Let's add another division. Let's do the books. So I called the people and I said man, you know I got the Ken Ivey literary Foundation which was basically what we just made up. You know I'm saying we made it up just to have a Conversation I said we want to do books for African Americans, you know We want to inspire young African Americans to read, you know So I got some people that I think that we could be you know, very You know, we could be very successful with so I knew that I can do Bootsie book first So, you know, we had already, you know, like I said, Bootsie's a mogul. He's a businessman You know, he making big moves, you know, just he just got Steve over me as partners You know I'm saying we help him, you know, but he's really the mastermind behind what he want to do We just got the connections. So, you know that being said, you know We went over there. We talked to him and they was all the way with it, you know And so we got to hearing the numbers in the kind of money and they got they said, well, can you get brutal Mars? Hmm. I said how much for boomers we need three million right now They said can you get Travis Scott? They said me and I'm telling you man Here in that kind of money man and being having that access to the bag changed my whole perspective So I immediately call iced tea and got him a six-figure Well, Cory wise and got him a six-figure deal. We're about to get my man Jack Hollow we work with his management late a deal.   So, you know, we basically, you know, just got Into this business, you know, just basically him wanting to take Boosie to the next level and we wanted to just expand our brand and our Relationships, you know as we began to you know, build things like the hip-hop fraternity so we can have an outlet for these artists So that was the whole thing but man just turned out, you know, I'm saying it worked out and you know They was just talking that money man. Did I just became a new hustle for me? You know, I mean it's became my business. So now I'm Technically, you know, love Ivy love agency. So me and Steve have the Ivy love literary agency So we did the Boosie book for six figures. We did the iced tea book for six figure We did the Corey wise book for six figures. Now we deal it with millions, you know Now it's a whole different conversation. So, you know, I'm trying to tell my people Don't look at me just as pippin kid.  So Arthur and I got two books of my own the 48 laws of game and art of human chest So that's how the book deal came about.  Let me see it. This is a nice book, but I got a question because you said they did that for six figures But at six figures does that go straight to Boosie or how much of that six figures come to you? Let me break it down to you. Yes. Okay. So for instance, if I was doing a book deal for you, right? Mm-hmm, and I got you half a million dollars, right? So I get 15% as an agent So that's the standard fee, you know what I'm saying? So you get 15% of the ant the advance and 15% of the duration of the book So, you know, if the book do really well, you know, we get 15% of that as well And the way how society is going I see a book, you know, book is like in my days But I see a lot of people strain from books. I don't see a lot of the newer generation Grabbing a book reading a book they more do it on like Kendall or yeah, we got on that, too See, we got all platforms. Okay. So Boosie gonna also do a audio book where he gonna read the book, right? You know, we're gonna do a candle. We're gonna do a e-book. You know, I mean, it's it's like Wherever you want, you know, I'm saying these people is they lace they got it You know, like my book I get money on different platforms, you know, which category sells more between the Case in my case the hardcover usually don't sell as well The hardcover is really for hardcore book people, right, you know people who are book Official noddles, you know who really into the book industry. So they go get the hardcover, right? Then it reverts to paperback and then the paperback it goes like in my case of my book How long will you know it be printed? You know, what is the demand for the book? You know if the book is demand two years from now my book been out years and it still sell like Cheaper than the hardcover. Yeah. Well, yeah, the hardcover is probably about 36 dollars back by 19 Exactly as how much you normally go for? Yeah, but then you also you have your audio files You know, they that this open the door for a lot of things, you know, I mean Just just skimming through it just looking at the fact of you know, boosts his whole his whole Legacy and story is to be told because of all the ups and downs that he went through in life Yeah, you know, we talk about the death row situation. They're talking about his father, you know situation Yep, you know battling with drugs, you know, we talk about, you know, his relationship with his mama some of the things that happened They led to booze, you know the incident at the store, you know, we talk about, you know, his first love You know, we it's a whole things that we cover, but I want to talk about let me see that book Man it took us like two years the first guy, you know, so I don't know. Can you say somebody name on here? Yeah, so the first one is a white guy named Tucker max, you know, he did the Tiffany had his book Okay, so so so so he was the first he was like dr. Dre of the book. Okay, so unfortunately, you know, I said we We were trying to get Boosie to get old time, but Boosie was late So he was late we talk about this in the documentary. So Boosie was late damn to get into the thing So the guy he skewed he excused us. He said, okay the next time so we went to his house to it We supposed to go to his mansion and Austin.  And you know, we was late again. So the guy said I'm out Yeah, Boosie get so Instagram and Boosie said if anybody know how to write a book So this is all Revolving this book so Boosie get so Instagram and Kevin power Kevin powers a guy that in the Tupac movie and all that So Kevin power came through and say today, you know, I mean and you know, I gave him a fat check right quick You know, we wrote him a check and you know He he proceeded to do it and then he ended up getting busy because he's doing I think the guy was the big-time drug Digger drug dealer rich one. I think I'm right. Well, I don't know Tupac like doing Tupac book. Okay, so that Tupac book took it Trump, you know what he is going on with us So we lost him as well. So we end up getting another artist so we went to three artists and The publishing company told us they said, uh, listen, if y'all don't get this book on there remind you They gave us Tucker Max first. So they said and then we fought Boosie way and got Kevin power through social media So now they tell us that you the contract said you have you got to have a deliver a deliverable manuscript Means that you have a complete manuscript So, you know, we didn't have a complete manuscript they gave us X about a day So we went bust the moves and we got an author right and uh, finally, you know He was like in the author better be good. You know, there's something. Oh my goodness So we're going through all this stuff while I see book going smoothly with him in Doug sentry and His man spike. So you know send me everything going good with the ice tea book We do a both books simultaneously, right? And but we documented all this and so finally, you know We got the book where it was acceptable. You know, I mean, hey, oh man I already know why you get a man Boosie man. He custom people out the first day. They said something about they said What they say they said, uh, yeah, man. I don't say no rapper They this ain't no this ain't no to get no cloud either y'all.  So it's a rapper. I don't say his name okay, but he wrote a book and Simon Schuster trying to compare that book to Boosie, man ain't no motherfuckin cold Boosie just went off man Yeah, yeah, and I'm sitting there. I'm like I like Boosie, please please please Boosie custom motherfucker out man, you know the motherfuckin say it. Hey, you know, we talk like that.     So he's like man. I tried to tear you You know, that's a movie.  We got it. Oh, we got to make it of it We got Larry you think other people got good informational Boosie. We was there Doing the whole entire situation with him and Kevin Powell So we documented everything and we're gonna put it in a movie for him So a documentary for some people can actually see a documentary or a movie So a docu-series is the reason why we did a documentary because it's just the making of the book All the ups and downs that we had to go through to make this book You know people leaving us and leaving us abandoned. You know I'm saying I mean we had The book was transcribed by Kev so Kev had to leave in the middle of a transcription So you got to remember the next author had to go through the transcription He had to go through the transcribed version of it and he had to create a story out of that That was all Boosie story But as it was transcribed cuz you know what that's the thing I was wondering when you're going through three different authors And one started but stop does the next one? You know pick up where he stopped and just keep going or he has to start all over The credit at the end for the whole entire book. Is it the last author? Well, well Boosie get the credit because it's his book I know but for the writer though that don't make a difference So so if all of them jump off board they don't get no credit they getting credit now But I'm just saying you know technically, you know, it's Boosie's book You know I'm saying me and it's his story.  That's all they doing so okay at the end of the day You know so when you think about it Boosie, you know I'm saying he He gonna get the credit, you know, I'm saying, you know, we get the credit You know, we we we the ones to put it together. So but they couldn't got the credit like here. You see Iced tea and Doug century. You don't see that like that.   He did but you know to his credit He had a major project with to park out. You know, I mean he had to get that done Right Let me ask you this coming behind a book a lot of times you see movies and different things start to pop out And I know Boosie's already did his own, you know movies before now Do you think he'll be doing anything in comparison to this book coming up? Boosie do a lot of movies definitely, you know, Boosie's entrepreneur Boosie definitely gonna do a movie off this book That's what I was thinking. So now I see is gonna also do a book with hit a movie off his book Now, let me tell you how smart I see I don't want to go to that yet I want to ask you about this about this book cuz I cuz me and you we got some dealings to do it cuz during the Time you was coming here. You ended up You was talking about the Vlad thing and I the book hadn't came out yet or had it finished already No, haven't came out yet, but just for people to know this is a picture of me and Boosie Yeah, so you're in the book. Yeah, not only is I'm in the book Well, listen with the book the last words you hear in the book is that I'm the one to put the book together So, you know, I'm saying me, you know, I don't think I think the problem is CEO is that a lot of people don't believe the validity or they understand, you know How much of a consummate businessman I am so they think, you know, that I'm just capping a lot of people do Be capping, you know, I'm just one of the dudes that I ain't gonna say nothing if it ain't one hundred. You feel me? Yeah, and I just I spoke on that because last time when he was on here, you talked about Vlad Inviting you but with you and him having such close business together. I could see why that's why I was so concerning You know, I was upset because I thought that Vlad was trying to create some wedge between me and Boosie But I asked him a question and kind of discrediting, you know, what I was saying, you know You know, I'm not gonna sit here and say it's a sex tape on Pimp C And it's not or not on Pimp C that Pimp C had access to a sex tape if it wasn't true Yeah, so me but you know, you was here. It wasn't it wasn't like it wasn't And in the in the social media ran with it ran with it So for people to understand was it no car So now that you know, he's asking Boosie Vlad asking Boosie about the sex tape with Pimp C I'm like, man, this is my man I've been on this I was there when they was in the studio when this man was a kid Yeah, if you go listen to Boosie album, you know way back He said I'm in Milwaukee like Pimp and Ken this was he was before we ever met the man was rapping about me Wow, you know, I mean my in my city Boosie is called the mayor of Milwaukee You know, I said because niggas love him so much because they love me Well, I think it's embraced them because he represented and he said Milwaukee in the tape ever since then He'd been able to go there and get a check Steve was from Milwaukee. Yeah Boosie is heavily I'm from Milwaukee. He's fairly entrenched with Milwaukee.  We go on the bet.  I wasn't upset because I don't never let my emotions super see my intelligence But I know if I didn't say it in the graphic form that I said it it wouldn't been felt the way I wanted to be felt the way I wanted to be felt Yeah, so you know I'm sending me but now man Boosie helps so we got deals So the last thing I want Boosie to do is to say something and then you know, I'm sending it Ain't got no no business. You understand me because what have a Boosie feel about me or how about feel about Boosie? We still our businessmen, you know, I got a solid relationship. We got we cool man. We solid You know, I'm saying the good you all you gotta do is look at the videos I just put up. He's smiling. We laugh at the joke having a good time. I'm sending me We we outside, you know a beehive talking about my way on our way to nori house You know, we don't we feel to do a thing with nori. We call it nori together.  That nigga pimp you can that nigga man with with with Boosie and this and that Other like me and Boosie got beef. You know, I'm just like I feel like I'm Really going up against Boosie when I'm trying to tell niggas now me and Boosie Got busy together. We try to sell books. Y'all go get this book You know what I'm saying right now across the time across the track. Yeah.  Get me. You know what I'm saying He been dealing with the culture for a long time. So at the end of the day, that That's no beef for me. Ain't no beef. I'm flexible. I'm too old for beef, man. I want to ask you about I seen when I was giving through I seen the part of sea murder in there where he was locked up with sea murder. Right. That's going to be an interest in working in the kitchen together. Yeah, that's an interest in read. You know what I mean? Different things like that. Those are things that I know when I was with Mac When I interviewed Mac, Mac said that he had been locked up with sea murder. He was doing good, you know, a lot of people in that system down there end up being in the same facility in Louisiana, man. A lot of TTC. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy down there. So yeah, yeah, other than that, man, like I said, I want definitely I know me and boo I got a link with boozy, man. Got to definitely make sure that happened, man. I already know we already been talking about it for show, man. So I want let's get into this one now. I didn't see this one coming. You ain't spoke. You ain't tell me about this one. Well, you know, this is all on the view. And, you know, like I said, I'm I'm a modest person, man. I try not to brag, you know, I'm more of a chess player. So, you know, I'm a tactician.   Time for it to happen, you know what I mean? Because a lot of people, you know, they hockey, they play hockey. They try to block you, you know, and then it's a lot of real. Yeah, yeah, it's real. It's a lot of people, you know, in corporate, you know, because I got the hip hop attorney, I got so many big things going on. I'm actually a threat to a lot of entities, you know what I'm saying? And they don't they know how I'm moving. You know, people know I got access to millions of dollars, but they ain't going to let nobody know. You know what I'm saying? When I get up under certain artists and stuff like that, and I'm trying to get them a bag, people get in my business.  You know what I mean?  You know what I'm saying? I got to send somebody else at them because they don't want to, you know, let me do what I need to do to kind of get our culture back. Yeah. A lot of people are standing up for the culture, but I'm highly intelligent when it comes to the black experience.  I understand you. I read Dr. Ben, you know, the black man in Alice. I read a doctor. I need that to name Akbar. I read Chancellor Williams. You know, I read the Broder files. I didn't read, you know, the stolen legacy, George, Jane, GM, Jane. You know what I'm saying? So I know a lot of stuff. And I also read the 48 Law of Power. I want to read Prince McAvelli. So I understand the mechanisms in the schemes and how like I was telling people about, you know, the podcast. I think me and you was having a conversation about that. I'm going to get back to the book. We was having a conversation. I said a lot of these podcasts in particular, you know, certain people, what they're doing, they're paying a lot of money for artists to come on these podcasts. That's going to ultimately turn podcasts that ain't got their foot in the game into moms and pops. That's right, because under the COVID-19, you know, doing COVID, we understood that, you know, this is an outlet. So a lot of us created this outlet and in the process of creating this outlet, we became very successful and very famous.  They trying to figure out how to ex us out and oh, no, tic-tac-toe. So they put they're giving these artists money. Now, these artists is not going to be too enthused about doing your podcast because they know they can get paid for doing that. So now it's like, you know, best buy Walmart, you know, versus mom and pops. So, you know, the mom and pops couldn't get the artists to come in and do in stores. But, you know, best buy, they come there with no hesitation. I've seen that. And and what do you think about that? No, he's totally right. I've seen that. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I think it really when you're dealing with people like me and you, Pimpkin, and I say, me and you, when you really touch the streets and then you you understand that you got to get it out the mud, it's a challenge. And anything that challenges us, it really pretty much make us want to go harder.  So we figure it out of way. Well, black people always figure stuff out, really, to be honest with you. Because when you look at the store we in, the only black store in this over here period in this whole city, can I say something doing slavery, right?  They weren't allowed to eat number of the prime part of the pig.  Yeah. And we call it chitlins. So doing, you know, the Jim Crow era, black folks wouldn't allow to perform in the arenas or any of the main facilities. So we had to go to what they called the what? Chitlin circuit. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? That's why a lot of people love pig, you know, now in pig feeding. That's right. And they love pork chalk and all that stuff. Because black folks made it popular. That's the same thing with hip hop. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't going to last to a pop or nowhere to rock and roll or country music. But now it's the number one music in the history of this country, you know what I mean? Number one genre. So, you know, we have always took something, you know, took nothing made something out of nothing. You know what I mean?  Real talk. So by me getting out here as an agent and promote my books and my artist books, my author books myself and me, you know, doing other things that I do, like creating these docu-series and stuff like that. That's going to go on these across these different platforms. It puts me in another dimension, you know, but because of who we are and because as black folks, we had to always make something out of nothing. Well, this is basically who we are, you know? And wow, that's real. Yeah, that's so real. I had to jump subject. We're going to get to the book. It was something you just said when we start talking about the old, I thought about academics and academics been going in on LL, Russell Simmons. He been really because of what you mean, you kind of discussing it.  I didn't get no direction. I came through an independent route. Now he says, $20 million later, I don't have to answer to y'all. And I can say what I want to say on my platform. How do you feel about that? I feel the exact same way because a lot of these artists, right? They're the same usual suspects. So you got these people at the top tier and they've been the same people at the top tier for years. So when the artists come out, a new artist like Drake or something, they jump on his album or Lil Baby, they jump on his album to stay relevant, right? But they don't give nothing back to the culture. You know what I'm saying? It's like a popsicle.  And this is what a lot of these people who's established and, you know, and they talk about all these white people in this universal and all these other companies, but some of them do two artists worse than what even these people have done to them. You know what I mean? And the worst thing you could do is not pass the patin. You know, and I think a lot of them, they hold on to it. And you know, some of them almost, some of them are grandparents and they just want to hold on to it when they could have been passed out. You got people that's in the game that's big. They got nephews and they got sons and daughters that's ready to go. But they refuse to give up, give up that popsicle. They want to keep on sucking on that popsicle to ain't nothing left until hip hop, you know, probably do like everything else until it withered into the, into the, into the obese. You know what I'm saying? But again, what you say it makes sense. You, the other generation somehow figures it out. No matter if they hand it to them or not. You're chilling. But see me personally, this is my personal experience. I'm figuring, I'm pimping can, right? I'm training all over the world.  And I think I did about 10 million views on one of last video. So I'm doing a world star. I'm killing it. I'm on, I got five videos where I'm featured in on, on, on BET countdown. Hey, now one of them they can say, Hey man, come on, let's do a movie. Hey, now one of them say, Hey man, come on, let's do this. Wow. You know what they did? I'm pimped this, I'm pimped that. They tried to take what I created and say that it was them.  So I can imagine how these young people feel because I felt the same way, you know what I'm saying? So that's why I, I said the only way I'm gonna beat these niggas, I got to get in the game. And when I get in the game, they can't beat me. I swear to God, ain't no niggas got more game. I got more game motherfucking baby fingers, I don't think it's got their whole body. So they know that, they know I'm coming. They see me, you know what I'm saying? They see they up off and turning. They see me signing artists. They see me about to make my move because the niggas too stingy. They don't want to give up the game. They don't want to let a nigga in. You know what I'm saying? They make a nigga starve. That's why I say you see the same motherfucking usual suspects in this game. And this ain't no clickbait. This ain't trying to get no motherfucking views or nothing. This is facts. No, real talk. Why the fuck?  They won't even have it. Because you know what I'm saying? It's less niggas than being rappers than it's been in the NBA. You got a better chance of being in the NBA than you got to be a rapper. Because it's the same usual suspects. When Russell Simmons spoke on it, Russell Simmons said, we done helped everybody. We helped Leo Coyne is one of the guys. Now this is a guy that's running YouTube. I'm liking my mind. Did that really help us or did that hurt us? Well, you know, a lot of times. I mean, I don't know if it helped us.  I mean, niggas is just getting, you know, the little babies, the NBA young boys, those, the cold niggas, these niggas is getting all the money. They getting the half a million drinks. They getting them niggas to get 10 and 20. You could book them niggas for 30,000 to fill up a, what do they call it? So you understand me? The young niggas is figuring it out. The young niggas got the game.     These the niggas, they got the game. You know what I'm saying?  They understand how to go set up a YouTube. They understand how to, you know, get money from these Google sense ads. You know what I'm saying? So that's, that's, that's what we have. So, but, but a lot of the older guys, they got their money, you know what I'm saying? But they got it from the old guard. They got it from the old school. Now these young boys, they get money like hand over fist. But was they, when they was getting the money, wasn't they, I mean, they was getting it off 360 deal. They wasn't even, a lot of them boys, they left broke. Man, listen, did you hear what I just said?  You know what I'm saying? Because even Jay-Z said he had to buy his master's back. You know what I'm saying? So all the niggas had to buy their master's back.  Data master's and the artist is the slave. That's real. So you want to tell me something? When you break it down, you know, and you think about it, you know, this is basically how deals used to go. And Jay-Z, all of them, you know, he's an exception. Him and David Dash had a joint venture, but they'll tell you that this how a deal go. Okay, so I signed you to a record label. You know what I'm saying? I get you a 50-50 production deal, which means that you're going to pay 50% of a video. At that time, videos was like three, four million dollars. So you coming in, only me $2.5 million on the video.   You see what I'm saying? So now, you know what I mean? You sell a million records. If you sell them in records as artists, you're going to get 45,000 at the max. If you go platinum, you might get 45,000, depending on how your deal is structured. But the video going to cost you a half a million dollars. So you already going in $450,000 in debt. So now you understand me? You go out through the duration of your career.  So you know what I'm saying? A lot of these artists, you know what I'm saying? They're getting 15% royalties on these deals. You know, we just started seeing recently that they're getting better deals with you. Like I said, the young people, because they got YouTube's, they could see the bad deals that was made. Now how much did they pay for? How much did they, well, you probably won't know this, but how was they, how did they comment to you about that video, that 50 cent video? What 50 cent video? The 50 cent video, when he was talking about PIMP and all that. Oh, when I was in that video? Yeah. Okay, so basically what happened was, I met 50- But that's when the budgets was up, right? Yeah, well, they gave me a decent check. So, I met 50 at the embassy suites. But what made me want to meet 50, he had a song called Problem Child. I said, if you a PIMP like Ken, why the hoes don't treat you?  So, I knew that he had affinity towards me, that he fucks with me. So, I immediately had this guy named Dave, cut above limo, hook me up with 50, when he said, yeah, 50 in town. So, I went, I made him at the embassy suites. He didn't know I was gonna meet him. I was just in the lobby. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Good game, right? Good game. That night I got him in my movie, the Gallow Streets, the second suite. I got him to do a commercial, everything.  At this time, he was charging millions of dollars for it. And then, shot money, his manager was like, Nick, you going with us? So, I went on tour with him. We went, Master P had booked him for 10 shows. So, we went in, I did about two or three shows and I was like burnt out. I couldn't do it no more. So, you know what I'm saying? So, after that, they called me and said, man, we want you to be in the PIMP video.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, me and, I was like, okay, these niggas, they doing they thing. I'm gonna go hang out with 50. So, I went in 50's dressing room. So, 50 gave me a pair of his shoes, I'm G Unisuit, he signed them to my kid. I said, 50, listen. Man, I got to talking this video. He said, you want to say something? I said, yeah, I want to say, Pimpy Ken, say don't down on crowning. They trying to down you, because it was the Legion of Doom. And they was all saying, why should we let you in the Legion of Doom? Then I said, Pimpy Ken, say don't down on crowning. So, you know what I mean? All the strategy that me and 50 had strategized, because Chris Robinson, the guy that was the director, the thing, you know, he didn't have that in the treatment. So, we created that. That was created on the spot by me and 50.  I said, yeah, yeah. Cause I said, think about it like this, 50. And they said Coca Cola, say don't down on crowning. Coca Cola was the love that, they were the love that spot. So, now that video is at almost a billion views. So, a billion people heard me say Pimpy Ken, say don't down on crowning. I was just thinking that fast, you know, at the time. So, you know, that was a good thing. You know, that 50 dove in me, man. And 50 the coldest, man. I love 50, man. Man, listen, man, that's a cold nigga, man. I love that nigga, man. That nigga, every dog.  None of them niggas cold than 50. You know why I say 50 cold? Because 50 didn't have the same opportunity.    You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? He doesn't show them. Hey, the niggas come in the game and you can see him, he up there at the war show. He said, hi, Vivica Fox. Next thing you know, he was Vivica Fox. I'm saying he a player. Oh, he had a couple of times. Hey, the man a player, man.   And then if you read my book, The Art of Human Chess, I broke down the whole 50 blueprint, how the niggas came into the game, how he said, G unit. And next thing you know, he had G unit clothing. He had G unit records. He had G unit everything. He was a cold mastermind.  So he remind me of myself a lot. You know, I really love 50, man. I mean, like, I really love to do. You know what I'm saying? That's how people, we keep up.   How do you deal with that when two people that you cuff is going at each other and you just don't pick sides? You gotta just kind of stay neutral. Hey man, listen man, Pimp C didn't like a lot of motherfuckers. Oh, that's my guy right there. You know what I'm saying? Man, I ain't gonna say, I ain't gonna, I'm not getting in trouble. I can't say that. But I just say this, one of the, that bubby, everybody gonna know what I'm saying. I ain't gonna say no name. I know y'all hate what I don't say that.   I just put it to you like that. You know what I'm saying?   Me and Maroy, may he rest in peace. We had video of Pimp C saying some shit about niggas that we thought was cool.   Pimp C thought these niggas was trying to steal the UGK song.    And the dope dealin', the dope dealin' as well. The same thing.    You know, I mean, he may jab by my motherfuckin' brand new beings to get in the motherfuckin' that video, that video. You know what I'm sayin'? Yeah, yeah. But when you look at the way that they ostracized the South during the time when he came up, he had reason to feel the way he did because he was dope comin' from the jump.  I did too. And so during that time in his career, and during that time in the South, it wasn't on the South. It was maybe on the West Coast or the East Coast, but the South was not gettin' that type of traction, man. And I try to tell people that. Go look at my movie, The Best of Both Worlds. What did Pimp say? He said, them niggas in New York, you know what I'm sayin'? They was riding trains and they had book packs. He said, we didn't have trains, we didn't ride book packs. He said, we was grippin' on grain and driving Cadillacs. You know what I'm sayin'?  Yeah, yeah. My daddy's a player. Like, my uncle, they was a player.  They was the big, all you niggas though, greasy. This is my family. You know what I'm sayin'? These was the biggest niggas, you know. Big K, all them niggas, you know what I'm sayin'? From a Pee Wee Fergus, them niggas, all of them was country niggas, but they was killin' the gang. Damn. So I learned from my own experience being with my father and goin' down there, fuckin' my uncles down, that the Southern niggas was way slicker than the Northern niggas.  But in Pair Road, in Pair Road.  All the niggas flew key stoke, all the niggas, them niggas from the South. You know what I'm sayin'? Larry Hoover from Mississippi.  You know, the niggas are Frank Lucas. That niggas from North Carolina. You know why? You know why? And my daddy, you know what I'm sayin'? He basically broke it down to me.  White folks didn't even like us. So we had to fend for ourselves. He said, we had our own grocery stores. He said, we growin' our own food. We did everything. So they had an independent mind state. Way before, that's why Master P and Cash Money think the way they think.  You know what I'm sayin'? It was segregated integration.  Because he was used to goin' and get his own bread. He was used to goin' and get his own chicken.  Niggas up North, they was used to get everything from the white man. They was used to being subservient, you know what I'm sayin'? But these niggas, these Southern niggas, and that's what Pepsi was sayin'. He said, man, y'all gon' respect the South. Yeah, yeah.  They call it country rap tunes. You know what I'm sayin'? And I understood exactly what he was sayin'. I mean, he the one that made it cool to be from the South. Yeah. You know what I'm sayin'?     Yeah, he was. Jay-Z was the first nigga to recognize the South as being some players and all the mother niggas, they gradually got it. But they followed. You know what I'm sayin'? They looked at y'all as being country and slow. And you know what, that never was the case. And we didn't, during that time, we didn't, we wasn't tryin' to hear it. You know what I'm sayin'? You had Big Mike. You had Big Pokey.  You had D-Rex, Slim Thug. You had, but before that, you had Big Mike. Lil' Kiki. You had, yeah, you gotta say Lil' Kiki. But I'm goin' before that because I'm an old nigga. Yeah, A-Ball-M-J-G, A-Ball-M-J-G, not Swav House. Swav House. Mr. Mike. Mr. Mike. Yeah, you had some player people, some dudes that was really puttin' down some rhymes, and the niggas in the East Coast and West Coast was not here. The ghetto boys. The ghetto boys. But the ghetto boys were different. They were universal, even early on. They was killin' them niggas. Everybody had to respect them. But I'm just sayin', the way that they looked at us back during that time, they were not tryin' to give us no recognition. And I understood, Pimp, when he said quit hatin' the South, and I understood when he said, you know, y'all gon' have to respect the South. I totally got it, because I knew where he come from. You gotta remember, man, man, this man rolled together, you know what I'm sayin'? This man a player, you know what I'm sayin'?  Pimp, he's a real player. You know what I'm sayin'? Yeah.  You know what I'm sayin'? I gotta give myself a trope. I gotta quit talkin' on this bike. But, you know, I just put it to you like this. Everything these niggas think they know, Pimp knew it backwards. You know what I'm sayin'?     You know what I mean? So I respected him. Man, we didn't been in many of clubs, just me and Pimp C. This one, he was the superstar. Yeah. And we'd be by ourselves. You know what I'm sayin'? I mean, we had no security, nothing. Every nigga in the club would run up to Pimp and give him a hug and be showin' him number love.  Man, no fingerprints, you know? No evidence, you know what I'm sayin'? Hey, it's nine kinds of stuff. Hold on, Pimpin', you know what I'm sayin'?  I was like this nigga, man. I didn't ask Mike Jones, but I asked you. When you heard Pimp C. sayin' I'm goin' to this, the cocaine thing, where he said, you heard me right. We played with our nose. Everybody took that and, you know, of course he was goin' through his struggles or whatever. What did you think when you heard him say that on that song? I seen it. You was there? No, I knew Pimp. Oh, you seen it? I knew he was there. You knew his lifestyle. I knew he was there. I'm tellin' him all the time when he went, when he called the case, he had a bag of dope on him. So you knew when he said that he was just lettin' it be known, I ain't trippin'. Well, you know, a lot of motherfuckers don't understand is that Pimp gonna keep it real. So him tellin' him if he get high or somethin', ain't got nothin' to do with how you feel about him. You know what I'm sayin'?  I went, I tell you something and I can't, I'm not gon' say no name and y'all can laugh. Y'all know I be around lots of celebs, but I'm not gon' say no name. But I mean, my man Duby made recipes. Yeah. We in motherfuckin' L.A. on Crenshaw. Everybody know, Drew Down, he was there. Drew Down. So Drew Down, he can vouch this. So we at the motherfuckin' Athower and one of the biggest celebrities that you ever seen is there. And one of the, the old icon, I can say she was there, Shaka Khan was there. So they there and you know what I'm sayin'? They wasn't doin' nothin'. You know what I'm sayin'?  He didn't care who seen him. I mean, that's their circle. You know what I'm sayin'? So a lot of niggas use blow. You know what I'm sayin'? A lot of niggas was gettin' high.  That ain't nothin', I mean, that's somethin' to us because we grew up under the crack era.   But like I said, you know, if I named his artist, you wouldn't nobody believe.  I was surprised to see him there. You like, damn. No, I'm just sayin', you know, just think about LA, ain't that many big, it ain't that many big top-flight actors. But one of your favorite actors, you know what I'm sayin'? I'll give them a little hint. He go all the way back to Spike Lee. Go all the way back to Spike Lee. You know what I'm sayin'? We're blowin' hard.  And the nigga, Dubi, was a player. So all the celebrities would come to his spot. Like I said, Shaka Khan was there. I was amazed to see her. Drew Down was there. Drew Down, a vouch for this.  They go and get high and trippin', you know?  It's on Chris Shaw.  You know what I'm sayin'? So me seein' this particular actor there, I was like, it was trippin'. Most people that know me know I told him about it. It was amazing.  You know what I'm sayin'? Yeah, cause he do this. If you look at, you see one of those motherfuckers doing this, they get 20 million or better. You know what I'm sayin'?  Damn!  Dang, right! I was like...  Let me ask you a question. So now niggas can't say I'm just capin'. They couldn't, too many niggas see the Pimp C tape, the tape I was talkin' about Pimp C, but you know, motherfuckin' Judown and Shaka Khan was there. So they know, you know what I'm sayin'? And you know, man, my man, Kenny Red, Rest in Peace, all them niggas, they know. They was there. No, it's just player circles, man. Oh, they just know. It's player circles, man. It's certain circles, man. Shit happen, man. Niggas get high. You know what I'm sayin'? I'm talkin' about Dumb One, man. Dumb One, he gettin' the older, man. Dumb One is one of those guys, man. I always followed him, bro. And I know y'all was both, y'all was together. Y'all was, he was in that Pimp C, that last one. Was he there? Was he there? I'll choose you. That one was outcastin' Pimp C. Yeah, all of us was there. Yeah, he was there. I actually put them, I brought them all together. But was he at the one that, he was on the one with 50 Cent, too? Oh, no, he wasn't in there. Yeah, he was in the Pimp C, he was in the Nellie Pimp Juice. He was in the outcast. Yeah, he always in the outcast. So the outcast thing was Pimp C gave me, he put me in charge of bringing all the players. So Valentino from Dallas, you know Memphis. Yeah, I saw that Valentino. I love Valentino. So we got all of them and then, you know, we called all the players, you know, and we got them all there. And we was able to, you know, put that together. You know what I'm sayin' me?  Dumb One is like, when I was in prison, right? And I was on my way home. It was a magazine. So the magazine, the magazine, right?  And I used that like- When you was in prison? Yeah, yeah. I was going, I was like about two months. I used that as motivation. Wow. You know, I would look at that thing. At this time, he was no Dumb One. You hadn't met him? No, I seen him, you know, cause you know, I used to hang out. You know, I ran away from home and I used to stay at this hotel called the Madison Hotel. Right there on Madison, California.   So we was staying at this hotel. So a dude named Chocolate Dice and all the pimps, they used to come and Bishop would be coming down the street, down Madison, all the pimps would get excited. They go, Dumb One, they go, Bishop. So that's the closest I got to them. But when I got in prison, I seen the picture of, so I took a picture of them. So in 95, this guy, you know, I see him at this place called Mr. K. He said, Hey man, we're going to have a players ball. You know, at this time I'm top flight pimp now. You know, I'm really pimping. So, you know what I mean? I was like, man, you know, we're going to be there. He said, Dumb One and Ice-Teen and all the others.  So I gave the nigga 500. I didn't even know this nigga. He could have been running gay. I gave a 500 out for a BIP. So I came to the party. I walked in there, is at the brothers' lounge in Madison on Pulaski, you know, on the West Side.  That's my first time saying it was like me. I see him as a superhero. I said, damn, he's a hero. That's Dumb One. But then, you know, I was pimping Ken.   So I'm up in there like, yeah, man, who bitches these? You know what I'm saying?  Hey bitch, take one look at her.  And I ain't trying to impress them. That's just who I was. You know what I'm saying? I think a little bit back then, so I was amplified. And so Bishop now was laughing at me. And then that's the first time I seen Iced Tea.   Bobby killed me. Iced Tea standing right behind me. You know what I'm saying? He laughing.  So you know what I'm saying?  I never seen them niggas again to the next year. They threw it again. Cause it was like, you know, no, actually after that, they invited me to the West Side. Okay. And they started hanging out with me. So one of the things to hang out with, Bishop, you got to buy him some Moet. Okay.  You know what I'm saying? That's just, you know, how the niggas do it on the West Side. So we got to buy them Moet. We kicking it.  I didn't know them niggas like that. These old niggas, pimp niggas.  They started liking me.  Then I got cool with him. You know what I'm saying? So, but how we really got bonded was what pimps up holds down. Okay. I remember that. I told you that story. So when I met them on the second place ball, I see like they go Kenny Ivy. You know what I'm saying? So me and him got really cool. And that's how our relationship extend to this book today. You know what I'm saying? So you know, me and Ice got cool.    Oh, damn.   But I was a leader.   So finally, if you go on YouTube, you see where he came to my house. Yeah.  You know, so we sitting there. I got him food.  And then we got on there.  I don't know, $200 a size. I said, yeah, man, I gave business some money, man. I paid the church, man. I'm with the church, man.  And so the dude's like, yeah, that's all you had to do, nigga. Don't talk about the church, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, man, I love the church. You know what I'm saying? I love them niggas. Now, his right-hand man, Reverend Seymour, became my partner. You know what I'm saying? He came to my daddy's funeral. And so it just, we just all came to, it was weird, man, how like, me being Pippin' Ken and being the law mouth young dude and Bishop being the laid-back player, you know what I'm saying? It was kind of, they thought it was conflict, but it really wasn't. You know what I'm saying? I love Bishop and Bishop and Seymour, they put me in the game. It wouldn't have been no Pippin' Ken if the niggas wouldn't have had the pimps up, hold down. So that's how niggas got introduced to me through a platform that they initiated through Tracy, which was the niggas of King Bird's cousin. You know what I'm saying? So that's how we all got tied in. Did you, when he first started hanging out with Snoop, did that surprise you or did you see that coming? No, we had already, man, I'm telling you, man, all the, see, I was hanging, he was Snoop Dogg hard. No, but you gotta remember, we was always with celebrities. He was with Ice TV for Snoop. Yeah, sure was. So all the celebrities wanted to be around the Pippin, but you know, he was with Snoop, but I was with everybody. Yeah. So you understand me?  And you know, my thing was, you know how I get down, it was gonna turn into a bag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's what I was to, I said, man, if I could knock one of these niggas, man, these niggas, you know what I'm saying? They realized the value of the Pippin and the rapping, you know what I'm saying? So the niggas that stepped up to the plate was Pimp C. Yeah, don't. So you understand me? Right. So Snoop Dogg was Bishop's, you know, person of interest and Pimp C. Pimp C was my personal interest, but I also had Too Short. I also had OutKaz, I also had Lil John. So what I wanted to do to separate myself from Bishop was I wanted to be cool with everybody. You know what I'm saying? I got on everybody album and then that created a check for me. What about, just talk to me about Too Short because he was one of the coldest, and him and Pimp was cool too. They was real good friends. Give me some stories on this Too Short. Hey, you see us on the wall up there. I love Too Short, man.  Yeah.     You know what I mean?  She said, you think you Too Short, right?   I'm pimping, right? And so, you know what I'm saying? That was the first time Too Short, you know, other than this music really got even.  I'm mad at the motherfucker.  I don't know the orange motherfucker.  But I was shy of some motherfucker, right?  So you know what I'm saying? I'm mad at the motherfucker, right?  No, I wasn't Pimp C, Lord John said, man, let's go to this video shoot. And I got with Too Short. You know what I'm saying? It's a before story, but this is how we really got close. So I go to the video shoot with Lord John. It was a Too Short video. That time, Lord John wasn't popping. And then me and Too Short got cool. We swapped numbers. And so I'm staying at the Super 8. You know what I'm saying?  Yeah, yeah. But it's in Buckhead, okay? So it was the only hotel that was available in Buckhead. You know, because that time Atlanta was popping. But everybody know what I'm talking about.   It wasn't cheap because it was in Buckhead, but it was the Motel 6. We wouldn't stay at it no where else. So I tell Too Short, he said, where you at, man? I said, man, I'm at the Motel 6. So Too Short pulled up in the biz, the great biz and shit, man. And he said, man, come on, let's go for a ride, man.   Next thing, you know, I'm at his house. I'm at his house all the time.  You know what I'm saying?  And we just became, you know, real tight, man. You know, we did two songs together. And you know what I'm saying? The dude really, you know what I'm saying? He like, like, like, I don't know what I can say, but you know, he's real deal. I can just leave it like that. You know what I'm saying? He the real deal. You know what I'm saying? He bought, he bought that life.  It wasn't really him. It was his manager, Ramon. Okay. I booked him for a players ball. Now mind you, I'm booking him downtown. We didn't promote it. We sent the nigga 5,000 on the, we didn't know how deposit work. We sent the whole goddamn money. I sent the nigga the whole 5,000 just for a guest appearance. He's just gonna do a walkthrough. So Ramon said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we promoted this shit, man. I spent all these thousands on motherfucking.  Cause I want them pressed too short. And Bishop all the rest of them, you know what I'm saying? We had Rolls Royce's niggas from all over the country, Frank DeBang out of Oakland.  And you know, it was my party. It was my birthday party, you know, Pimp, Snooki, all of them. So two show was a no show. Damn. So man, I was mad as a motherfucker, man. I was so mad and Ramon like, here man, we just gonna send the money back, man. I said, man, the money, man, God damn man. I said, I'm gonna look bad. I said, man, can I get you out of extra 5,000? He said, man, too short book. I was so mad, man.  How did you get past it? Okay, well, we in 112, and me and Good Game there. So two show came in there. I said, yeah. So the nigga, the nigga, Good Game, like, man, that's short, that's my nigga, man. So him and Good Game was tight before we were tight. So Good Game went kind of like, you know, broke the ice and you know what I'm saying? You know, it was like whatever.  And you know, I'm saying, it was a dead in situation. You know what I'm saying? The last time that we did something was last year. Me, it was, it was me. So actually I've been on three songs that were too short. I forgot about this one. Me, E40 and Too Short did a song.  Last year?  It's something about the track. But anyway, we did that. You know, so that was the last project we did together. That's live, man. I mean, I love Too Short, man. He's one that I put like, when I was talking about that music, I only listened to the South, some Big Michael and some Too Short. Other than that, nothing else was playing. Man, I love Too Short. You know, and he would, he come from Freaky Tales all the way up. So you knew how I felt when he didn't show up? Oh, you was hurt. I was hurt, too. I was hurt, man. No, I had some whole not the questions, but the questions that I had some questions that were popping in between of what y'all were talking about, but y'all ex me out of the whole thing. Damn. I let him go. That's all. I just wanted to hear them stories. But one thing I wanted to ask, because you said you kicked down the door because nobody can stop you. You're gonna come into that industry.  Have you been facing that yet? Well, I remember I was doing, when I was doing my book, I went into Wendy Williams' show. And we were scheduled and everything, and we were supposed to go on the show. And all of a sudden, her husband, Kevin, said, you can't go on the show. So the publicists went crazy. It was like, because of the pimp thing, right? So I felt, at that time, that was the first time I felt like I was being black ball, but the company I did was a very powerful company called Simon and Schuster. So I called my publisher, and they said give us 20 seconds. You know what I'm saying? I was on the Wendy Williams' show. They said, oh, he's going on the show. Y'all might not like the pimpin, but this is our book too, you know what I mean?  It'd be my own people, right? They're scared of the name Pimpin, whereas you got to remember this book, that's a classic called Pimpology, is put out by some white people. You know? That's right. A iced tea in, Bootsy had verified this. When we went in that room, and when the iced tea went in that room, and this on YouTube, it was nothing but white people.  That's right. Now, you know, with Southern music distribution, Mike Walker, known racist, right? You know what I'm saying? I gave him the movie Pimpology. You know what I'm saying? He put it out for me. He distributed it. But, you know, the black companies won't give it to me. The only time they have a problem is when you say hip hop fraternity. So when you say hip hop fraternity, or you say that, you know, we're gonna do our own everything, then, you know what I'm saying? They start figuring out ways like, it took me two years. You know what I'm saying? I know this was probably the record labels and people getting at these people to get the register patent on that thing. You, I've been just showing it. You're the first person to see it. It took them two years. They gave me every block they can give me. Well, you need to do this. You need to put this on your website. You need to do this, you need to do this.  A problem. You know what I'm saying? Because they can't get no money from me at that point. So to give you the best example of this case is, you know, let's use a case of hand. Let's just take a millionaire. We all know him. You know what I'm saying? A millionaire, you know, goes to Universal and tell Universal that he wanted to do a forensic account. He wanted to, you know, check the books. He found that they was negligent, maybe 60, 70,000. He said, if y'all don't let me go, I'm gonna tell everybody how to audit y'all and then let him go. So you know what I'm saying?  I don't know if y'all have heard of Percy Julian. You ever heard of Percy Julian? He's called the Forgotten Genius.  And Percy Julian, what he did was he had over a thousand patents. You know, a lot of the company, the gluten company, all those patents are his patents. You know what I'm saying? He was so smart that they refused to give him a PhD. He had to go over to England to get his PhD. Once he got his PhD, he came back. And to become a noted PhD, you gotta do what they call original properties. You gotta do something, you gotta write something that got something to do with the originality that nobody has done. So what he did was he put these chemistry figures out and then this white guy stole it from him. So when they stole it from him, they gave him this Nobel Peace Prize type thing.  When he protested, he gave them the real. He purposely, in order to get a hand of the guy, he had to give them false information in order to see if they was gonna actually publish the information. They published it falsely and he came back. He said, these are the original chemistry for this year. And they had to give him the prize. He's the first black man that ever won this prize. It's like in the chemistry, it's like the Nobel Peace Prize. He's the first black man to get a house in Oak Park. You know what I'm saying?  White people stand outside. They was trying to burn this house.  He refused to move out of a white neighborhood. So nobody know about him. It's the forgotten genius because he was originated and would make him so popular. And here's the part that y'all gonna love. Percy Julian ended up on his own pharmaceutical company. Wow. He sold it for millions. You know what I'm saying? So he's the first black man to get into that space. You know what I'm saying? And to actually control and dominate that. All that stuff you see with those sweet potatoes and stuff like that. Making medicine and stuff out of that. He's the brother that did that. You know what I mean? So, you know, that's why- That's heavy. No, no, in reference to what your wife was saying, that's the problem. The problem is, you know, not that we can't get in.  You know what I'm saying? Exactly, because once one get in, everybody, oh, I can do it too.  That's cool. Mike Walker put Pippa Ken, a movie out of Pippology. Pippa Ken got the hip hop fraternity. You know what I'm saying? You know, how do we block him out? Wow. You know what I'm saying? Nobody don't want nobody else to think about opening up fraternities where you bringing black folks together and you said, we are on the one umbrella and we're going to share each other. Our network is our net worth. And that's where you see that problem persists. You know what I mean? And particularly with black people. As long as we are trailblazers, as long as we are the ones that are doing it, then it come a problem. I think that's why they offer Master P and cash money so much money. You know what I'm saying? Because they be trying to keep people, you know. That makes sense. That makes so much sense. I got another question. So how, have you ever been in love? I mean, you know. Like truly in love. It's hard for me to fall in love because I'm the type of person that got a, or maybe it's a fictitious perspective of love meaning that, you know, you all the way down with me. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? Air or love, you know what I'm saying? You're going to say love. But if you put a one in here, I tried this. I put a one in here. Yeah, I remember your story. Yeah, I remember that story. In the water. And I asked her, what is you, who do you love? Pippin' Key in the air, she said air. So you know what I'm saying? You know, so I like, when I think about love, I'm thinking about people going all out. You know what I'm saying? So, you know what I mean? I personally, I just, I mean, you got to love me first for me to love you. You know, I don't know why. Sounds like my son.  Air or her? You see, I ain't really, like I said, you know, I love to a certain extent, but ain't nobody really just made me. So you've never been in love then, so to say?  To that level. You know what I'm saying?  Male and female, at some point, they crossed me. No, I feel you. My sons, my kids, everybody at some point, you know, we had a problem. So, you know what I mean? I understand. Hard to trust. It's a thin line between love and hate. So, but at the same time, you know what I'm saying? When I kiss my daughter on the forehead until I love her, I love her. You know what I'm saying?  If I say to a CEO, what's up, love my brother, you know, it's to that extent. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying?  But I feel it. Pippa can't say he ain't trying to hear it. Man, so I was gonna ask you about, did you ever hang out with, and I'm going back to PMC too short and PMC at the same time? Cause they was party. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  You know, I was supposed to be out there in LA when he got killed, you know what I'm saying? Cause he went to a two first year out of being there. Yeah.  You know what I'm saying? I mean, you know, but the last time all three was together, he was in a casket. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know it, man. It's just the, the, the stories that come from you and just being with all these different people, it doesn't surprise me that you come out with the hip opportunity because it's only evolution to me because we need it. We need it so bad to where our people can see a place where we can come together and unite and do things to grow and not disrespect each other's independence.   So I was, you know, taught up under the Honorable Nova Jua Lee. So the Honorable Nova Jua Lee taught us that it takes finance to uplift the nation. So, you know what I mean? You know, in our teachings, you know, we talk about economic development. We talk about, you know, you even see the Honorable Elijah Muhammad using, you know, when he was Elijah Puea, he was once a member of the more science temple.  You see him owning their own farms. You see him only buying their own land. And at the time of the death of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, you know, the nation of Islam was worth $50 million. So you know what I'm saying? I'm under those teachings. So when we think about, you know, things, you know what I'm saying? We always think independent because we out there, you know, we believe we don't want to, you know, separate from America, but we believe that we must have our own. We believe we should have our own land, our own politics. We believe that we should have our own property. You know what I'm saying?  So, you know what I mean? Yeah, we have to because here's the situation why it's so important for black people to have their own. In any situation where it is black and white, the white is going to always rise to the top. And I'm going to tell you why because the society as I spoke on before, if you want to look at what white people is, white folks is the right hand and black folks is the left hand. So everything in society, our steering wheel, everything is geared for the right hand. Everything is geared for the white man. You know, it's the left hand. The left hand is left out, you know what I mean?  Even the steering wheel is always geared towards a, well, that's the way society is, you know, you know, if we don't separate, then we'll never be able to become equal because our children will always be reading about Maynard Keynes. They'll be reading about Karl Marx.  So the back story to everything is that there's some Jim Crowism and there's some white supremacy. So you know what I mean? When you look at that, you got to be very cautious of whether you're feeding your children. It was George G.M. James had a book called, not George, the Stolen Legacy. Man, it's the tip of my head, the Stolen Legacy. Man, man, man, look that up. My mama gonna kill me if I can't remember this man, man. I just said his name a million times. Where anybody, y'all know what I'm saying?  When you look at the Stolen Legacy, you know what I'm saying? You know, not the Stolen Legacy, everybody, yeah, now. George James? Yeah, yeah, George James, but now the Missed Education Negro. Okay. The Missed Education Negro, that's what I'm trying to think. I think it was Carter G. Woodson, right? So, you know what I'm saying? The Missed Education of Negro, when you think about the Missed Education of the Negro, you know what I'm saying? He talks about that the black man has been so marginalized. He said that if the white man said that it was a door, and if it wasn't a door, he said that the black man would cut a hole in the wall, make a door. Carter Woodson. Carter G. Woodson, right. So that's where we at, you know what I mean? Everything, you know, your kids would never, like, look, I'm gonna get y'all, this is the best example. When you seeing your kid, how many kids y'all got? We got four. So every time y'all seeing y'all kids at school, they go to school, ah, mommy, mommy, mommy, I don't wanna go. The white kid says, ah, mommy, mommy, I don't wanna go. By the time they get into fourth grade, you know what I mean?   He got all type of tattoos.  And I'm not, this ain't no racism. It's just that everything is like, you know, you can't read a book without great whites. Well, all the person we hear about is Martin Luther King and they killed him. The backstory is that a white man killed him. So we still can't get the adulation or the benefit of being proud of this man because we said, damn, they killed that hero.  Thomas Jefferson, just so many white heroes. Litanyam, Abraham Lincoln. So Abraham Lincoln. So that's the problem when the people, the Afrocentric people talk about curriculum or curriculum of inclusion, that's what they're talking about. You know, it's all psychology.  He said, in society, he said the black cat cat, you know what I'm saying, is bad luck. The white cat is good luck. He said, the angel food cake is white, devil food cake is black. He said, when you look at the pictures of heaven, all the angels is white and what the niggas at in the back cooking kitchen? You know what I'm saying?  The white ball control all the balls. The last ball to get knocked in is the eight ball. When you play chess, the white piece move first to back. See, all this is psychology. It ain't racism in psychology because the people that was in charge of creating a society, especially after 1865, you know, Jim Crowism was in charge and the psychiatrist, everybody was a part of it and to keeping the Negro marginalized, keeping the Negro inferior. That's why they say Negro. The word nigga means inferior. And you have all those, like the philosophers, Emmanuel Cunt, John Dewey, all of those white. They was complicit.  And just like, did you hear what I just said? But the best example of what they did. We gotta do something about people. Well, Michelangelo painted the 16th chapel, you know, in the Vatican of Rome. When he painted their chapel, he painted Jesus white, you know what I'm saying? And we know the Pope and everybody knew about the black man down.  And they knew that the Bible is saying that Jesus' hair is like land wool. That's right. And that his skin is like bronze, burnt in the heaven. And then when the first coin you see, a Justinian coin, you see the Justinian coin, you know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? You go and you look at the New Testament. The first history, historical history of the New Testament was on papyrus papers. Papyrus is a leaf that grows in each of them. That's right. This is the first Testament. So that means that the first inscriptions or the first, whatever you wanna call, writings of the New Testament was written from Africa. You know, when Jesus fled from Jerusalem, where did he fled to? Egypt, Africa. So you know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? You say, yeah, okay. Even the Mexicans, you know what I'm saying? Their Jesus is Latino. So everybody gonna paint their society according to their perspective, which is understandable. That's why it's so important that our children separate intellectually, you know, from a curriculum standpoint, you know, social standpoint from their European counterparts. Because if we don't, what's gonna happen is we're gonna have a bunch of of our people creating a recycle.  When you see certain police, you see the police say they're gonna man. You know what I'm saying?  Yeah. But you call the police the man. That's the reason why that's. You know what I'm saying? Francis Quest Wells in the book, the ISIS paper, she talk about all these things. So we gotta educate ourselves. It's cool to be a pimp, play a hustle, but educate yourself. And that's why you see me doing the hip hop fraternity because I don't have no fear. I understand the psychologist. I know where the bodies is buried. I know the game. So you understand me? I'm moving in search of way where I'm like, yeah, y'all slip. Y'all left the word hip hop and fraternity open. You know what I'm saying? If y'all were to knew that a nigger, you know what I'm saying? Not no Koota Kante, but a Kwame Kuma. You know what I'm saying? The guy who was the first one to call Independence in Africa in the country of Ghana. You know what I'm saying? Y'all knew there was gonna be a Kwame Kuma in hip hop, which is Pippa Ken. You know what I'm saying? Let's unify this thing. Let's bring these black folks together. Y'all would have never had, y'all would have bought the name. I know how y'all do. They would have bought the name. They'd buy all the names. That's real. You know what I'm saying? But see, God blessed me with this knowledge.  Like I said, niggers go in there. They don't look at, they don't look at obligation. They look at compensation. Every nigger that signed a deal signed it based on compensation. How much you getting paid?   They don't look at the obligation.  Where it's gonna be distributed. It's gonna be distributed in China. Bangkok, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. And they look at it like, what? So now, you know what I'm saying? All them niggers that signed a deal back there, even Jay-Z now. They never anticipated the blockchain. They never anticipated cryptology. They never anticipated NFTs. They never anticipated all this stuff because it wasn't in the contract. That's right. You know, look at compensation. So, you know what I'm saying? All these things are, you know, things that harm our children. You know, especially our young children that have aspirations to be entertainers. So what I'm here to do, I'm here to disrupt that, right? You know what I mean? And I'm showing that even though I've been in prison, even though I was a street nigger, I still can do business with corporate America. That's real. And I'm gonna get to this. I got a cheese book. So we've got to ask that question. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, I wanted to go into that PIMP stuff first. Oh, okay. Let's go. Okay. Okay, my question is, did you ever, okay, did any of your hoes back then ever got beat up by a trick? Yeah, yeah, one of my hoes got ran over. Her foot got ran over by a trick. You know, tricks beat them up, take the money back.  What did you do about it?  Look, the only thing I can do is give you some gain.  If they listen, hey, put a razor up under your tongue. I used to do it in prison. You know what I'm saying? Put one in your wig. You know what I'm saying?   He won't be able to block. I said, that's the only thing you could do as a frail statue. So you know what I'm saying? That's one of the things I do.  I can just give her a gain. Because if the trick beat up and he disappeared, what I could do. So I told him how to protect themselves.   You know what I'm saying? So those were the gain, that's the gain that I gave bras. You know what I'm saying? I mean, never go into a dark alley. Never go to nowhere, you know, where you feel uncomfortable. You know what I'm saying? You know, always have your phone on speed dial. There was just certain things that you could teach her, but it's nothing that no pimp, I don't care who he is, can do to help his brother, she in a precarious situation, unless he's standing outside the door. And we call it that Mexican pimpin'. Oh, so you never did that? Hell no, I went on some bread on it.  Mac T and them did a movie, and a movie and anything. Yeah, they did easy. Yeah, and did you have any dealings with that, or you didn't? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? You know, I'm the one that coached Mac. Okay.  Yeah, that's my story.  You know what I'm saying? So you know what I'm saying? I mean, Mac will call me every day and I was kinda preparing him to do the movie. You know what I'm saying?  I think it was in LA, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, yeah, we had a lot to do with that. That's real.  Did you ever have to slap one up or beat one up? Oh, God. Well, to be a full... Just to get hurt, yeah. Just to have her do what you need her to do? Well, for full disclosure, I never ever had to beat nobody up like that. But I have had physicalities. Keep going. I have had physical situations where I had to... I had situations where I had to check somebody, you know what I'm saying? That was always my last result, because I didn't feel, you know, I didn't wanna go to jail. You remember, I just got out of jail, so I would even step on an ant at that time, you know. So what would warrant you for you to have to do that? What, give me an example of something that she did? Well, if you were the broad and she's acting real irate, and she tried to put her hands on you, or you know, sometimes women are crazy. You know what I'm saying? They'll be like, motherfucker, you know what I'm saying?  Or you know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? So that definitely are situations where I encounter that situation. But you know what I mean? For most guys, they don't have to do that. You know what I mean? It's so crazy that you said that, because when I thought about that, I thought about men in general who deal with crazy women in a relationship. And a lot of times these women tend to want to hit you, fight you as much as you might not want to do that. You're trying to escape the lock the door, try to keep you there. Yeah, they provoke you. Provoke you.  And although she was the first person to start. So how would you advise a man to not get into that situation? Well, one thing you have to do, you got to control your emotions. You know what I'm saying? And you know, one thing I do is I just be quiet. I sit down, I watch some TV and I let that person rant. You know what I'm saying? But if you go back and forth with a woman, you're not going to win.  You know what I'm saying? You know, a skunk, right? It's very harmless in statute.  Once a woman shoot her funk at you, it's a rap.com. You know what I'm saying? Because she can argue. Men don't think. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? You got a dollhouse, you know, you cookin' for your husband and everything. What we doin'? We out there outside poppin' woollies. You know what I'm mean? We out there fightin' and bein' muncho. So you know what I'm sayin'? Women are analytical and men are impulsive. So you know what I'm sayin'?  So she's gonna play you out. She's gonna do everything to get you to react. Yeah, and you're gonna end up going, if she wants you to go to jail, she'll know exactly what we say.  Bitch, who you, boo boo boo boo. I'm callin' the motherfuckin' police nigga. Bam, you in jail. You know what I'm sayin'? Now, you know what I mean?  You know what I'm sayin'? But what I can't stand about those situations is that women are so emotional where they do that on the fly, but as soon as he gets arrested, she start cryin' and want him out. She don't want to press charges. She don't want it, but the state will take it right up and they'll press charges.  But in reality, once people calm down, that's why we sell people, before you make an irrational move, think about it. You know, because once you think about it, you know what I mean?  So the women got to be- That's rare though. Yeah, yeah, but the women have to be cautious these days now too, because there was so many guys who, you know, went to court and, you know, there been cameras and all kind of stuff showing that in some cases, the woman is being aggressive as well. Yeah.  You know, sometimes, you know, a woman can be in a relationship with a man and she don't want the man, but she don't want nobody else to have him too. Yeah. You would think that because you were pimping stuff like that, that you would know everything about a woman, how to deal with a woman. That's why I even wanna ask you about having ever been in love. I would think that you would know exactly how to- I'm not a fake love.  That's what she asked me. Yeah. You know, I can make- But how long can you keep, how long can a man fake love for?     Oh, I love you, I love you. That's gonna make her get more money. But she not seeing that same trick every single night for the rest of her life. No, but you know, it's a game.  I don't care whether you wanna play the game or not. We all playing a game. You're playing a game. I'm playing a game. Everybody playing a game. Whether it's a game of love, whether it's a game of chess, whether it's a game of chess, cause we all playing a game. So in some situations, instances, you know, the woman may not love, like for example, you know what I'm saying?    And you know what I'm saying? He gonna be like, oh, baby, that's all I do. I love you. So he don't get to go out with his homeboy. That's a game. You know what I'm saying? Everybody playing a game. Women always talking about niggas playing a game, but a lot of women play games too. Yeah. It's just that y'all play a game. Y'all play on a whole different level than me. Right. You know what I'm saying? But we all playing games at the end of the day. That's true. You know what I'm saying? Even your child, my child. Oh Lord, don't even talk about it. No, no, no, this is just, my son, I talk about this in my book. My son, little Kenny and Supreme. So little Kenny is older than Supreme. So little Kenny was the baby for like two years before Supreme was born. So when Supreme was born, so I'm watching the Lakers, right? And I'm holding Supreme. You know what I'm saying? To keep him from crying. So little Kenny is crying because he want me to hold him because he feel that's how Supreme got me. You know?  They still play games. So we were born playing games. Born into it. Everybody play, human beings play games. You know what I mean? Because, you know, these are certain tools and techniques that we have. But, you know, I advise any guy, you know, if you're in a relationship, don't hit the woman.   I'm just gonna be real with you. You're not getting out of being the bad one. That's better than going to jail. That's better than going to jail. See, if you hit them and she's not fast enough, she'll understand how the system work. You can end up spending a long time in jail. Like your wife was saying, that's what she gonna be saying. Tell them I want my man back. Yeah. One of my girls in there. Sometimes when you're driving and nigga's driving crazy, you gotta drive for that nigga that's driving crazy. Yeah, yeah. You drop a lane, you gotta put your brakes on. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you gotta think for the people that don't want to think for themselves because those would be the people that would make you get crashed. And then once you crash, you know what I'm saying? It's a rap.com. You're sitting in a county jail.  You know how that is. Let me ask you something, man. You know, I know you've been on a lot of podcasts, a lot of different big facts from Beehive, all the off the porch. I've seen you with a lot of people. Y'all kicked it. It was a cool situation. I like what y'all had going on. You know what I'm saying? But this boss talk, man. We love you, baby Ken.  I ended up, what we got for him here? We have an award. There you go. See, we're not trying to hear it, man. We may be independent and we may be a little bit smaller than those guys, right? But the way we love is on a whole other level. See, we love over here.  And I'm gonna hold on. I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna read it. It says, presented to Mr. Ken Ivey, AKA Pimpin' Ken, in recognition of being a successful entrepreneur and author which evolved into the hip hop fraternity, HHF, striving to help young entrepreneurs, 2022. Hey, man. I'm grateful, man. Thank y'all, man. Hey, man. I'm excited.  God damn. It's how I do it.   We just wanted to do something to show we respect you and we care about what you've done. I'm in, you know what I'm saying? Whatever you're doing, I'm doing. You know that. When me and you talk, I told you, man.  Well, one thing I wanna say, and I feel I would be remiss not to say this, that you, Beehive and DJ Scream has been some real, and Carlos Miller has been some friends of mine. Yeah, that's my boy.  Oh, yeah, for sure. And I told you that, hey, man, I didn't like this situation. You said, man, come on. I told you I had some new artists. You always said, come on. So all of y'all have been, you know, now you beat them because they ain't done yet. You shouldn't have done it, man, it's just him. They're, hey, hey, Beehive and Carlos. Hey, DJ Scream. No, no, no, hey, but you know what, though, I gotta take that back. Somethings did, DJ Scream came to my hip hop fraternity awards. That's love. You know what I'm saying, me, and he was a busy schedule, he cut a schedule. That's real. And Beehive came to the hip hop fraternity awards and we gave them awards too.  Oh yeah, for sure, man. I just want to talk about this last thing. Now look here, y'all. I want y'all to go get this book by my man, Ice T. Ice T. You know what I'm saying, man? This is split decisions, you know? Now, you was asking me about this book at first. Now, one thing how this book became is that Ice T is hard to get to do anything. You know what I'm saying? He's so busy. You know what I'm saying? He's so busy. And so when I told him about it, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Kenny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Kenny. So his man, Spike was getting out of prison. So he called me. He said, say, man, I'm ready to use that favor. And so I was so happy because, you know, he thought that I was doing him a favor, but he was doing me a favor because now I know that everybody up at the publishing company loved Ice T. Hey. Now, Boosie, we was able to do it over a conference call, but they said, we ain't doing this Ice T deal unless you bring Ice T up. So I brought Ice T to the office to do this book. So we was in the office. And man, I'm telling you, man, that dude, Ice is cold. Man, yeah, they're white women. You know what I'm saying? It was crazy right there.  They love it, man. Ice T said, I tell you, this is how I do it, right? You know what I'm saying? So you know what I'm saying? Ice Man, you know, this is a good book, man. And y'all, we trying to get it to the New York Best Time Seller. So y'all go get the book. You know what I'm saying? And y'all go get my man Boosie book across the tracks. It's Spike. Who is Spike? Okay. The reason why they won't go get this story cause Ice T was supposed to be in the penitentiary too. So this dude and Ice T used to rob banks and they used to rob jewelry stores together. So Spike ended up doing 20 years in prison and Ice ended up going, you know, to be law order guy. You know what I'm saying? And the big movie superstar and the rapper, you know? So it's very interesting. So Spike got out like maybe two years ago and when they got out, you know what I'm saying? I mean, Spike, Ice T told me to make it happen. So you know what I'm saying?   He's also gonna be in the documentary we got coming out called The Making of an Autobiography. So, you know, they actually got the interviews. We talking, we talking about the ups and downs of the project, you know? So it's really, really, really some good things. And then Ice is also a business partner of mine. You know, he owned a percentage of my film company.   He's the first celebrity to ever do a commercial for hip hop fraternity. So Ice is a real friend. Now, you know, you get 100, 200,000 in commercial, right? What he did hip hop fraternity commercial was zero. You know what I'm saying? And he's the first one, the first people to join hip hop fraternity. So these are my real friends, you know what I'm saying? These are people that I really do business with. But you know, that doesn't preclude me to do deals. So I'm reaching out to everybody out there. If you want a book deal, hit me up at 404-790-404-790-9627. Make sure you manage your contact me. And you got to have at least four to five million, four to five million Instagram followers. They're not going to just give anybody a deal.  But you know what I'm saying?   But you know what I'm saying? These folks, you know what I'm saying? They try to get some money and they feel that's how they can get their money. So, you know, both of these books, man, our classics, man. Classics. Cross the tracks. Let me tell you how good this book is selling. Let me tell you how good Boosie book is selling. So at the time of the Beehive interview, it was at about a hundred and a thousand on Amazon. Okay. Within 24 hours, it reached 7,000. So that's out of all the books in the world, it was a 7,000 book that quit. We predict by the next two or three weeks it should be number one. Wow. You know what I'm saying? And Iced tea is the best seller as well. So we basically, you know, we just trying to show young people what entrepreneurship look like. That's why we, when Richie Rich had a conversation another day, we was talking about independence. I said, we own our own social media. That's independence. We own our own radio. That's independence. You know what I'm saying? We own, if you don't own it, you're not independent.  You know what I'm saying? We have the register patent and the copyright, all that for our company. You know what I'm saying? Universal is not on our company. Def Jam is not on our company. Sony Music, Columbia Music. So that's what's important. Whatever you do young people, and I'm gonna close on this note, make sure you own it first and then negotiate. Because if you own 100% of the product or your IP then you can negotiate better and never give up no more than 40%. Always keep 60%. Not for yourself, but for your children, your children's children. Man, thank you so much for coming on the show. We love you, man. Pimp and Kim, done it again. Another great interview, man. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101.  And we out. Yeah, we own Boss Talk 101. Yeah, we gon' talk.


Hi, my name is Deepak Khimani, I work in IIT Padras and I am here to talk about my course Knowledge, Representation and Reasoning, which is a part of artificial intelligence. Now, in this course, which is a companion to a course that we did on problem solving using search, the focus is on representation, knowledge, representation and reasoning. And the key thing that we want to talk about is, what does an agent know and what else does an agent know as a consequence of what it knows. So, what does it know about the world and what can it infer about the world. Now, why do not we use something like natural language. Now, the problem with language is that it is too rich and too ambiguous as illustrated in this cartoon by in So, World's book. We instead focus on formal methods, which is based on formal logic, in which our focus is on looking at valid forms of argument. So, you some of you might be familiar with this argument known as a Socratic argument in which you say that if all men are mortal and Socrates is man, then Socrates is mortal. Now, the key thing here is that it is a validity of the argument that we are concerned with, not the truth value of the premises. We say that as long as the premises are true, we will accept the conclusion. So, other examples are for example, all cities are congested, Chennai is city, Chennai is congested. All politicians are honest, Sambeth is a politician and therefore Sambeth is honest. Now, you will notice that the three arguments have the same form and it is a form that we are interested in and we say that if the premises that you give us are true, then the conclusion will necessarily be true. Now, there is a whole variety of languages that we use in starting with propositional logic. For example, here are two examples which says that if the earth was spherical, it would cast shadows on the moon, curved shadows on the moon, it cast curved shadows on the moon. So, it must be spherical. And here is another example, he says that if he used good bait and the fish weren't smarter than he was, then he did not go hungry, but he used good bait and he did go hungry, so the fish must have been smarter than he was. Now, only one of these is a valid argument and I will leave it for you to think about that. We need richer languages to talk about real world situations, we need the notion of variables for example, and quantifier over variables. So, we need to make statements like one of Tinker Taylor, the soldier, spy is a culprit, the culprits stole the document. So, we are saying that exists somebody who stole the document. Now, to reason with statements like this, we need first a logic and then we can make inferences that if these things happen and this is what really happens, then this is what you can conclude. We also look at something called description logics, for example, you can say that a progressive high tech company is a high tech company. We describe noun phrases, it is a logic of noun phrases and it is basically the formal basis of ontology. So, we can give a definition of a progressive high tech company and we can give a definition of a tech company and then we can say that this is a subclass of this. We also look at something called default reasoning, we say that if a Tweety is born then conclude that Tweety can fly. Now, this will not necessarily be true because not all birds fly, but we think that generally birds fly and therefore, we should be allowed to make such a inference. And this inference may later be contradicted by new facts which emerge. So, this is in the area of default reasoning. We then move on to event calculus which talks about time and action and change. So, for example, Jogesh made a cup of tea and left it on the table and Smita saw it and drank it up. So, when Jogesh came back, he saw that the cup was empty. So, here we are talking about things which are changing, the cup was full at one time, it was empty at another time when people did actions and so on. So, event calculus allows us to reason with that. Then finally, we move on to something called epistemic reasoning which is how agents reason with belief and knowledge and what they think other agents know. So, if you look at the previous story about this tea that Jogesh made, at the end of the story we can say that he concluded that Smita had polished off his cup of tea and Smita knew that Jogesh knew that she drank the cup of tea. So, this kind of representation in reasoning is possible in something called epistemic logic and that will be the final part of this course. So, the syllabus that we have will basically begin with proportional logic and move on towards epistemic logic going through all these things that you can see here. And the books that we will follow are a book by Rackman and Levis, the title is Knowledge Representation in Reasoning and a book which I recently wrote first course on Artificial Intelligence and there are some reference books that we also will use. So, I hope you will find this course interesting and I welcome you to come and be part of it. Thank you.


Does the Sethite worldview imply that one can be children of God by natural lineage? If so, is that the same error the Jews fell into when they boasted that they have Abraham as their father? Whereas a negative example, Seth being the good seed and Cain being the bad seed, could we liken that to the extreme fundamentalist idea that a certain ethnic group having the mark of Cain are unredeemable. Yeah, it's kind of akin to all that. The Jews in the Gospels are basically claiming election by virtue of Abraham. And if you believed that Genesis 6 was another manifestation of an elect line back to Adam, if you take the Sethite view, the human view only, and if you believe that this is about an elect line back to Adam, then you'd fall into the same kind of thinking. Of course, nothing says that any line was elect prior to God's creation of Israel by virtue of Abraham and Sarah. That's when you get this election language in the Torah. It's always about Abraham and Sarah's descendants, you know, Israel. So that kind of thinking, though, can get transferred to other passages. And of course, it does. Those who would say that the Jews descended from Cain to track on the negative example for a moment here, people who are going to say that kind of stuff, that Jews are descended from Cain and they're Satan's spawn.  And I don't know any fundamentalism. This isn't to say that there isn't one, but I haven't run into one that would have said blacks were unredeemable. I have certainly run into a few people where the mark of Cain was interpreted as skin color. I mean, that you'll see. And of course, you'll read a lot about that. But even even people who thought that they you couldn't say that all of those people thought that like the Negro race or, you know, again, to use our modern terminology, African Americans, that they were unredeemable, some did, some did. But it really depended on whether those people thought. And this is actually, you know, 19th century kind of stuff, even, even earlier seven, it just let's just say 18th, 19th century kind of dialogue, wondering if the black race descended from Adam or from some other co-edamic or pre-edamic human. This kind of, again, biblical nonsense and of course, biological nonsense arises from this crisis in these centuries of having to explain from the Bible. And that's in air quotes, explain from the Bible where these other races, these other humans that explorers are encountering, where they come from. And the things like skin color get get drawn into this conversation. Obviously, you know, people could visually observe differences in skin color and other physiological differences. But it all of that gets sort of drawn into the same odd and in some cases repugnant conversation in these centuries. And there were certain who would have said, who would have landed on this idea that, oh, this race bears the mark of Cain and then they're unredeemable or, oh, this race bears the mark of Cain, but who cares? You know, we're not going to evangelize them or whatever. We're not either, well, they might be redeemable. We're not going to waste our time. And they weren't all like that, though. Some came up with really goofy explanations for race, but they still were viewed ultimately as descending from Adam in some way. And so it didn't deter evangelistic efforts. So it really depended on whether you're quote, unquote, biblical racial theory, unquote, whether it had, you know, these alternate people groups linked to Adam in some way or not. If you thought they were not of the Adamic line, then by definition there would be groups that would say, oh, they're non-elect.  They're unredeemable, or we shouldn't give her up. You had that. You had that kind of thinking. I want to read, this question prompts me. I have this in digital here, so it's real convenient. A little part of Adam's ancestors that this question just reminded me of. And I've referenced this book before on the podcast. If any of you are interested in the harm that bad thinking about the Bible can do, this is a must read. I mean, in my library, I've collected most of the scholarly books on bad exegesis that led to racial theory. And this is one of the more important books. It's informative, but obviously when you think about the content, it can be tragic too. This is from page 65 of Adam's ancestors.  So here's a short excerpt. As early as 1680, the Church of England, clergyman and missionary first to Virginia and later Barbados, Morgan Godwin, wrote at length in support of the right of African slaves and Native Americans to be admitted to church membership in a tract for the times addressed to the Archbishop of Canterbury, rather sanguine about the practice of slavery itself. He vigorously argued their case in his lengthy 1680 plea entitled the Negroes and Indians advocate suing for their admission into the church. It's the end of the title. Godwin was fully aware that what he called the quote pre-Adamites whimsy, unquote, was being deployed first to, quote, derive our Negroes from a stock different from Adams, unquote. And then to, quote, unquote, brutify them. His intention, by contrast, was to, again, quoting from the tract to prove the Negroes humanity, unquote. It was a strategy diametrically opposed to those Spaniards. And he seems to have had Sepulveda in mind who had concluded that certain races were not human in order to justify their murdering the Americans, i.e. the Native Americans. For all that, he acknowledged that fantastic and false. These are all in quotes, empty and silly. And again, in other words, Godwin's not buying it. He acknowledged that fantastic, false, empty and silly, all of that. Though the foul heresy of pre-Adamism was its original author himself had never used it to dehumanize any racial group, but rather had acknowledged the full humanity of the pre-Adamites. And that's the end of the selection. So here you have Godwin, the guy who wrote this, who acknowledged that, OK, there's this view out here of pre-Adamic races. And he was determined not to use it to dehumanize any group. You know, Negroes and in his terms, Negroes and the Americans, which we by we need, you know, the Native Americans, the latter reference there. So this is the kind of thinking. This is 17th century are going to get at 18th century. It's going to live into the 19th century. And really, you know, frankly, for those of us who are old enough, 20th century. But the use of the Bible to classify certain races in a certain way as being less than Adam or peripheral to Adam. And one of the strategies for doing that was this Mark of Cain idea. And that does go pretty well hand in hand with the Sethite theory. Now, of course, people who take the Sethite interpretation of Genesis 6, they're they're not doing it so that they can go here. They can go to these wacky racial theories. And even back then, they weren't necessarily doing it. But but you could take the Sethite view and once you took the Sethite view of Genesis 6, you would go backward and then you would quite literally demonize the Cainite line and you would insert the Sethite and canot canite dichotomy into Genesis 6. Again, this is part of the Sethite thinking, Sethite view thinking. And all of that became fodder. It was and it became fodder for racial theory. You could you could get there from the Sethite view. But let's let's be clear. People who take the Sethite view over against the the supernaturalist view of Genesis 6, they're not doing it to 99.9 percent of the time to justify racism. But in the old days, you know, centuries ago, this is where a lot of that that groundwork was laid. And so I think this is a this is a it's an interesting observation, you know, that the the questioner has here, Daniel. And yeah, you know, it's a kin. It's a kin, you know, to these other things. But we don't want to necessarily see a cause and effect link to some of this awful stuff that can really be laid at the feet of bad Bible interpretation.