Good afternoon. Okay. Come on. Good home training. Good afternoon My name is Sophia Elijah and I'm the executive director of the Correctional Association of New York And it is indeed my pleasure to welcome you to the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art and The Sackler Center is joining with the Correctional Association for today's well for this three-day series Called States of Denial. States of Denial is actually going to go on for several weeks But the Correctional Association partnered with the Sackler Center for the first three Some of you may have caught our program yesterday that focused on Attica and today we're going to focus on issues involving young people and Shall we say more mature people? We don't say older right more mature the gray-haired people in the room We know what we're talking about and the plight of those people who are incarcerated I'm going to ask you if you have your cell phones. I know everybody's got some mobile device Please turn it to vibrate or off so we don't interrupt in that way and on behalf of Elizabeth Sackler Who couldn't be with us today? I Want to express to you how very very pleased both the Sackler Center and the Correctional Association are to be doing this These events together and the fact that you're joining with us to learn something very important about what's going on in our Prison system here in New York State I'll just share a little bit about the Correctional Association for those of you who don't know We are celebrating our 170th birthday this year back in 1844 some very wealthy people got together and Express their concern about what was happening in the prisons in New York State the conditions under which people were being held and the world in which they were returning to and Together they formed the Correctional Association and two years later the New York State Legislature passed a statute Giving us a mandate or their unfettered access to the prisons throughout the state Giving us the right to monitor what was going on in the prisons and to report out our findings to the public and to our elected officials We have been doing that good work since 1846 and it's no small Notion for a not-for-profit organization to sustain itself 170 years. So I'm really really full of ourselves today's Program as I said is going to focus on the plight of young people and older people more mature people in the prison system in New York State and The panel will be moderated by our own Tanisha Ingram who does a whole lot of things But she amongst those things at the Correctional Associations She heads our safe passages program, which is a program for system-involved youth primarily LGBTQ youth and youth who are Supporters of them to become advocates and leaders in their own right to push for change to improve the conditions for young people inside the prisons and Focus on what's happening in the criminal justice system at large for young people As I said that Tanisha is the head of the safe passages program She her official title is the youth and community coordinator of our juvenile justice project Since she's been in that title since September of 2011 Tanisha oversees our safe passages youth leadership program which engages youth in advocacy around the issues in the juvenile justice system Prior to joining us Tanisha spent many years mentoring and helping transform the lives of young people Through her work with the international organization youth at risk and also managed Various mentoring programs throughout New York City for young people whose parents are incarcerated and for children in single-parent households and teenage parents We at the correctional association are Absolutely blessed and thrilled to have Tanisha with us and at this point I'm going to turn the microphone over to Tanisha so you can be thrilled to have her running the show for the rest of the Afternoon join me and welcome Good afternoon everyone You guys are looking you guys are looking good So as Sophia said I'm Tanisha Ingram I'm the youth and community coordinator at the juvenile justice project and we're excited and thrilled about this conversation that we're about to have This is a community conversation. This is a community issue We're looking forward to talking more about the work that we're doing on our campaigns and also hearing from you guys at the end Towards the end of our session. So are you guys ready? because I'm ready so So we're gonna start off the conversation which is called what's age got to do with it I'm going to bring to the stage Two people that I am blessed to be able to work with as I mentioned before the correctional association has two Important campaigns that we're working on one to raise the age of criminal responsibility in New York and one to release aging people from prison So the two people that will join me right now. The first person is Gabrielle Harris Prisco She is the director of the Juneau justice project at the correctional association. She Works on local state and national youth justice issues Gabrielle coordinates the CA's Juneau justice coalition and was recently appointed by New York state's governor To be the advisory council of the Justice Center for protection of people with special needs and as a member of the New York state Strategic plan action committee she previously worked as a legal aid attorney for children and family court and as the Project manager of legal aids data collection and policy project. So she did a lot Joining Gabrielle would be Mohammed Mohammed Mahajid Fareed He is the lead organizer of the release aging people from prisoner campaign He spent many of his formative years and youth and adult penal institutions in New York state During his last and incursion into state prison He served 33 years before he was released in 2011 While serving time Fareed earned four college degrees since his release in 2011 Fareed has initiated two programs designed to have a substantial impact on providing relief for those Confined in New York State prisons as well as for those being released the rap campaign and the rise in science rise and shine business coalition Fareed has also received the Soros Justice Fellowship for organizing and leading the rap campaign Along with the joint New York state legislative recommendation for doing so. So, please join me in welcoming Fareed and Gabrielle So we're here today to talk about What's age got to do with it? That's the theme of today. So before we get started From your perspectives, what is the it that we're referring to and what's age got to do with it? What might that it be? Well, first of all, thank you all for being here and thank you, Tanisha I think that it is the criminal justice system in America and to take a little bit of a deeper dive into that I would say there's sort of three it's we're really looking at and one is how our current policies and practices both increase crime so they don't help public safety and In addition to that they really dehumanize and terrorize, you know, large sections of our population So that's the first it is how our current policies and practices fail both people and communities The second it is how we police people and prosecute crime who gets policed who gets prosecuted What are the impacts and who are they born by and the third it is? Mass incarceration as a response to crime. So what is the phenomena of mass incarceration in this country? How does it play out for children and for our elders? Thank you What do you say that it is for me? Again, I want to thank everyone for being here greetings. I Think that's a very important question that it because it sets the framework for Everything that we should be talking about here today Without defining the it we can't we can't even answer the question about age whether or not age is something that Determines this it In addition, if we talk about some social ills or maladies how we define the it Is It's going to determine whether or not we get to the heart of the matter or whether we skirt the issues and so It seems to me that based on our labeling It's easy to think that it is mass incarceration or incarceration in general But I'd ask the question that are we saying if we reduce The number of people in prison or the amount of time people serve in prison if we can somehow be successful at that Is everything gonna be fine and dandy after that Does that solve our major social ills? like welfare Substantial housing the digital divide in a whole host of other things that I think are closely Associated with incarceration in man's incarceration. And so I take issue with the Conclusion that the it is Incarceration or man's incarceration. I think that is something deeper much deeper Social problem that we don't need to be skirting and I would like to Quote with W. E. B. Du Bois said quite a while back that The problem of the 20th century is the problem of the color line race and I think that's Still the issue here in the 21st century the whole issue of race. I know some people don't like to go there that There's even some progressives that consider taking that approach divisive But I think it's important that we face these factors of truth and To try to illustrate and prove my point I would just like to ask everybody to engage in this imaginary scenario with me for a moment and I would like I would ask everybody to try to imagine a scenario where There's a rural community far from the inner city and In this rural community the people that populate this community is 99.9% black Hispanic and people of color and Then imagine that the economy of this rural community is based on prisons that because of modern-day economics and how we have advanced with a Businesses leave in the United States to do their Operations overseas imagine that the economy of this black Rural community is dependent on prisons being there and then go on and imagine that the population of this Prison system in this rural community is majority white and then If you can go any further, I want you to try to imagine that There comes a time when The crime rate drops so low that policy makers begin talking about closing prisons and then imagine that The black people and their representatives in this rural community rise up and Resist the closing of prisons and because they can't rely on scare tactics such as crying That they come right out and admit that it's all about jobs And then imagine that they meet a measure of success in that That If not able to stop the closing of these prisons in their track, they are able to Slow it down considerably Because of a job's consideration Thank you for your very thoughtful Response. Yeah, I actually want to because something else is coming up for me. So You're mentioning rising up and I know that the releasing agent of people from prison is a campaign So I think this would be a great opportunity for you to share. What are the goals of your campaign? I'll like just take 30 seconds to conclude. Okay, and bring everybody Imaginary situation. Okay. I'll give you 30 Now let's snap out of it and realize that those imaginations of sheer fantasies Because we know nothing like that would ever exist in America And then when we realize that this is fantasy We will have to conclude that What we are faced with today is actually is race because what I just described to you is real That it actually did happen except for the fact that the racial components were or reversed That that happened in New York State no more than four or five years ago And so I'm trying to lay the groundwork to prove that race is indeed at the center of all of this stuff that race has been central factor in all major policy decisions in this country since its founding and Although we don't like to talk about it that we're never gonna get at the root of solving social problems or Get to the point of social justice and today are some racial justice. Thank you for Thank you You guys not gonna clap it up for that So for you for read the it is race Excuse me the it's that we're speaking of today. What's he's got to do with it? I think it's been raised since this country was founded and it's still raised today. Okay So would you like to share with our guests today what the region? Releasing agent people from prisoner campaign is about Well, the read the release agent people in prison campaign We like to think those of us who organize it is that it comes at this it this problem on different levels the first level is The obvious trying to get elderly people who have served substantial time behind the walls to get them from behind those prison walls these are people who have served 20 30 40 years and And They're being denied release even though they are released eligible And so that's the first aspect of our campaign We also like to think that Our campaign goes at the heart of the matter this punishment paradigm by focusing on What we call The high-hanging fruit That is we're not trying to reduce prison populations by getting people out. That's easy to pretty much Try to explain them needing to be released We are going after people who have been committed serious crimes and so that goes at that whole punishment paradigm of How much punishment is enough? Because at the at the at the center of punishment You know, I insist that the issue of race exists one of the reasons there Can be this extreme paradigm of punishment in this country is due to race Thank you Gabrielle, can you explain what the raise the age campaign? It's about sure So New York is one of only two states in the country. The other one is North Carolina Where 16 and 17 year olds are automatically prosecuted as adults without exception So what that means is if a child is 16 or 17 and is arrested They will automatically be in the adult criminal justice system. No one can change that not a judge No one and a parent does not have the right to notification If a child's arrested at 16 or 17, even if they're being held overnight Parent does not have the right to be present Child will be prosecuted in adult court can get an adult criminal record for the rest of their life and If detained will be in an adult jail or prison including Rikers Island and upstate prisons The risk to young people are tremendous young people in adult Jails are 36 times more likely to commit suicide than children in youth facilities Again, that's 36 times more likely to commit suicide the National Prison Rape Elimination Commission has found that young people in adult facilities are the most at risk of sexual abuse out of any population of people who are incarcerated and Children's brains are still developing in their sense of self their identity who they are is Extremely malleable and the impact of children of being in the adult system is tremendous And I would just point out that you know, this is absolutely Contradicts the way we treat children in every other sector of society in New York State if you're 16 You can't get a tattoo. You can't vote.  You can't Go to an R rated movie Someone even recently pointed out to me that they were in a hotel where there was a sign that said you can't swim Without a parent being present in a hotel pool But you can be held on Rikers Island and you can be questioned by the police and interrogated without your parent being notified So we're looking through the raise the age campaign of the Correctional Association Working with advocates throughout the state and with policymakers to change the law to raise the age So that kids are treated in the youth system So that if they're held in any facility and we believe that as much as possible children should be in communities With services not in jails and prisons But if children are confined that they be in youth facilities that are developmentally appropriate and that have rehabilitative programs and That we also have comprehensive reform of the youth justice system So that we keep as many kids as possible out of the system in the first place So that we have services and treatment and programs for those kids who are in the system And so that any child who interacts with the system is interacting with a child-serving system That's appropriate for their age and not a system designed for adults and how do we do that? We do that through community organizing. We have events like the one we're at today Tenisha goes and speaks to faith-based communities and to parent groups our campaign manager Angelo Pinto is presented across the state at colleges and universities. We've co-published a book We have a video project that you're going to see in a little while And we would love to come to your schools to your places of worship to your community centers to talk to people and to get involved And our co-chair Sophia Elijah was appointed by governor Cuomo to co-chair a commission That's going to be making recommendations in December of this year to the legislature and the governor about how the age can be Raised in New York State So we're making a lot of progress But more is needed and really what we need is we need every day citizens to join us Children don't have a lobby children. Don't have political power. They don't vote. They are Incredibly marginalized in our society Particularly children of color and particularly poor children who are the children most impacted by the system I'm telling you legislators do not get many phone calls for children. They get phone calls for guns They get phone calls for property taxes. They get phone calls for lots of things But they don't really get many phone calls on behalf of children and we need people like you to get involved Thank you So for me Gabrielle mentioned some of the challenges that young people Being housed in adult prisons are facing could you share with us some challenges that people aging in prison are facing? the major challenge is that prisons In this country were not designed To hold the elderly The way prisons are structured They're structured so that people can pretty much Follow orders and obey in a normal fashion When people get elderly Sometimes they move slow Sometimes they can't hear as well as a younger person Sometimes they have problems understanding orders and Which you are fine is that these people will are being punished Additionally punished because they can't Flow with the normal order of the system and I say that's a major problem Not only that these people face a Sense of despair and hopelessness similar to what perhaps younger people face when you hear these in So far as the younger people are concerned statistics of doom and gloom This is one of the reasons you hear a lot of young black men saying they don't expect to live to be 21 because of The prospects of doom and gloom in their future and you find the same thing with the elderly behind the walls because The refusal of the of a penal system to recognize the ability of people to change and And release them after they have been appropriately punished. And so my point is that When we look at the scope of this whole punishment paradigm that age don't have anything to do with it that the whole idea because The majority of these people are seen as the other the whole idea is to get them when they're young and keep them when they're old Can I speak a little about the some of the ways and I think for you you've brought up some Really incredible connections both around race and the issue and also around some of the similarities between children and the elderly in prison and I think it's also important to think about Sort of the most vulnerable among us, you know, and I often think like when we were first planning this Conversation I kept thinking of those adages that you can judge a society by how it treats its children but also you can judge a society by how it it treats its elders and we in this country are failing both Populations miserably both inside and outside of prisons, but particularly inside prisons in really horrible Horrific brutal brutal ways. I mean those of you who were here yesterday at the conversation on Attica, you know Just some really horrifying Stories about what's happening to people inside that at the Correctional Association, you know We bear witness to throughout our work and I sometimes talk about Children when I think about what draws me this work as the miners canary so the old proverb and it's true, right? Is that miners would bring a canary down into the coal mine and when the canary got sick and Died it signaled to the miners that it was time to get out of the mine because the air in the mine was toxic and canaries register distress Quicker than humans do they're smaller their respiratory systems are smaller And I think that the same is true of children that they are signaling for us what is happening in our society children register for us the failures of our society and I think the same can be said for the elders among us That when a society is not healthy people who are most at risk register the Toxidity more quickly than those with more resources and then what happens in this country, right? We say like let's kill the canary or let's lock it up or let's put it in a solitary confinement cell Or let's you know take it and fail to feed it We don't say what is going on in the mine and so the question, right? It is not like what's wrong with the canary and what's wrong with children and what's wrong with the elderly It's like what is happening in our society that the mine is toxic and it's toxic for all of us It's just registering more quickly with people who have less resources and who are more at the forefront of the system's brutality Thank you for me. Did you have a final thought before we tell people how to get involved? Yeah, I have a final thought and First of all, I like to say people can get involved in the rap campaign by We have Information that we passing out today. I would appreciate appreciated if people picked the information up and See where we are located. We're located at the correctional association. Have you heard? And Our contact information is there and you just have to specify that you like to learn more about the rap campaign and get involved with that My final thought is that This whole series of panels here is labeled under the Phrase states of denial. I would say it's a serious state of denial very serious state of denial to think that we're gonna solve social justice and at the same time avoid rate racial justice that central to All of this all of this is the history of seeing people as the other and Perpetuating this whole paradigm of punishment. Thank you for it Gabrielle Please let everyone know what I would say first before I tell Gabrielle to do that It is really important my colleagues are here and we're doing the work But it's really important that we have people directly impacted by these issues join us to do this work So Gabrielle, please let people know how they can get involved in the raise the age campaign so As I mentioned before you can invite us to come speak to your school place of worship community center You can visit our website, which is correctional association org or a Facebook page. You can download materials there You can take materials from the table at the back You can contact your elected officials and tell them you support raising the age and getting kids out of adult jails in prisons You can connect with Tanisha or myself to attend a community meeting that we have Usually one Saturday a month every month at the CA and you can call the CA or numbers on Website asked to speak to Tanisha and ask for when you can come to the next community meeting where you can really plug Into the campaign on a deeper level and then I also want to just talk about Before we close two reasons why this is incredibly important and why we want people to get involved and The first is this You know I came to this work I used to work at legal aid and I was a lawyer for children and child abuse and neglect cases And I when I'm talking about why this issue matters to me I often say this that When I was at legal aid and I was working in family court You know I saw many parents charged with child neglect and child abuse for very serious things But I also saw children, you know parents charged with child neglect when kids didn't go to school or You know For things that were serious But nowhere near what we are doing with state-funded tax payer dollars So right now as we sit here on Rikers Island Children are in solitary confinement. You're gonna hear a little bit more about this issue later where children are locked in a box that is Incredibly small with no more than a slot in the door where food comes through a slot in a door Children are not taken out to go to school. They may have some educational materials shoved through the door They are denied human contact the ability to speak to their parents or families to make phone calls to do almost anything the United States the Rapporteur excuse me the UN Rapporteur Has called solitary confinement for more than 15 days torture the average length of stay for an adolescent in Rikers Island in New York City is 43 point one days and Children can be in solitary confinement for months for even you know many months or years on end often for very minor reasons So this is what I want to say is that?  ACS will come to your home. They will remove your child They will remove all the other children in your home and you would be arrested in criminal court for child abuse But our criminal justice system is state-funded child abuse And that is what's happening is happening as we sit here the federal Department of Justice just issued a scathing report Finding horrific brutality against children on Rikers Island kids do not belong in adult jails and prisons But nobody belongs under those conditions adult or child it doesn't work is bad for public safety and it's terrible for human beings and The last thing I want to say and I promise this is really the last thing is really, you know, I promise Fareed, you know really spoke about and it's highlighting the ways that race and the criminal justice system Intersect and I can tell you, you know when I started practicing in family court as a white woman from Staten Island I cried the first time I sat in family court because I saw children Prosecuted for the things that I did growing up in Staten Island And I knew that the system was never gonna touch me for them right and I Smoked pot in high school and I stole things and I committed petty vandalism with my friends dressed as a ninja Because we thought it was funny and we didn't go to jail for that We didn't go to prison for that and I remember representing a child in family court on a graffiti case and saying to the judge Like how about we put the kid in an art program instead?  This is what we're doing to people But what does it do to a child? You know and another story that I like to talk about because it has impacted me so greatly is sitting in family court and Watching kids come in in handcuffs and can some kids come in Chained at the legs, right? So if we think that race has nothing to do with it I can tell you when you watch kids almost all black and brown kids come into a courthouse Chained at the leg dragging chains behind them with the sound of chains Moving on the sidewalk, right the imagery the connection to slavery is Helpable and to think that this isn't this is how we treat all people in the society is not and this is what I would watch So I watch kids come in and they would come in chained and they would come in handcuffed And they would be brought in and they would still be handcuffed and I would be sitting in the back because that's where the lawyers sit while you wait for your cases to be called and The bailiff would come they have a different name and family court because they give everything a euphemism But the court officer would come and they would remove the children's handcuffs and Many times I saw this the kids would Be standing there and their handcuffs were removed and they would keep their hands like this And they would stay like that and in the family court system and the youth justice prisons this recently changed But kids were also ordered used to be ordered to walk through the halls like that with their hands in that position Right and what I have challenged people when I talk about this is to say like what are we doing to children? And I really want to say to anybody again children flag the issue for us But this is for all people in the justice system when we teach people to handcuff themselves Right when we make the handcuffs invisible when we have a system of control of human beings Where what we teach people is that they are nothing but a number that they're in a uniform and rubber shoes Where they have no humanity that is given to them right people retain that for themselves But the system is conspiring to take it and ground it and grind people down and make them feel like there are nothing That is our system of punishment and what does that do to all of us? And what does that do to the people inside and it sets us all up for failure? It devastates people and it doesn't work And so our campaign is about changing that for children But it says really about transforming the entire way our society looks at how do we? Handle when people have done something wrong We need to have a response, but that response doesn't have to be torture It doesn't have to be brutality, and it doesn't have to be something that takes away from all our humanity Thank you And that speaks for both populations We're talking about children and Asian people in prison, so that definitely speaks for both populations Gabrielle and Fareed are very passionate about the work that they're doing so please join me and just thanking them for sharing their experiences and work with us Thank you, T Gabrielle spoke a bit about solitary confinement, so as they for reading Gabrielle leave the stage We're gonna show a little clip about that. Thank you Well, I put a young person through the torture of The box that breaks you down mentally I went to the box to being solitary confinement the whole scale shoe I went to solitary in 2005 with a tobacco possession They gave me 15 days.  I Wouldn't get it God was ready to pull my hair out I got just tired of talking on the gate to try to occupy my mind I got tired of talking to myself got tired of screaming out the window Tired of pacing back and forth reminiscing about what I used to do when I was in the street and now I'm sitting in here in this box I just started getting very angry Then I started getting very sad at the same time and I started getting very anxious young people Don't need to be in any body's jail Detention Center period What they need they really do need Some type of Services some place where they really can't be rehabilitated, you know a place where it's more therapeutic and not and not more Oppressing so as I mentioned earlier the work that we're doing is important But it's more important that we involve the voices and experiences of people directly impacted by these issues I'm gonna add a couple of guests to join me on the stage But before I welcome them up, I just want to tell you a bit about these people that will be joining us The young man you just saw in the clip is Mel Nazario will be joining us He's 25 years old and he's a Brooklyn native He currently works at the Fortune Society as a case manager for a program called I can Which stands for individualized corrections achievement network which aids individuals that are at high risk of recidivism He previously worked for the Center for Community Alternatives with the new services department dealing with court involved young people ages 12 to 17 Which both for the stronger passion for him to help young people? And be the voice that they need to to support themselves Also joining us will be Gloria Rubero Gloria spent 26 years in prison Saw a five parole board and came home at 56 years old She had several strokes before her first parole board Gloria Rubero received her associates and bachelor's degrees while incarcerated. She was a peer Counselor in HIV and AIDS work and did construction and maintenance work when she came home She first worked as a maintenance job worked on a maintenance job And then was employed by the New York harm reduction educators working on HIV testing and outreach in Manhattan and the Bronx The third person we're going to have join us is Terrell Mohammed Terrell Mohammed currently works at the correctional association He is a formerly incarcerated person who has now committed his self to support and young people and speaking out for people Who have experienced time inside as well as solitary confinement? Our fourth person who's going to join us his name is Saigon. He is a rapper and actor He also spent time and an adult facility as a young person He now has made a commitment to use his talents and his art to speak about his experiences and to encourage young people So, please please please give me some positive energy and welcome and help me welcome our panelists to the stage So We're just going to get right into this because it's important that your voices are heard on this issue So is my oh We just saw a clip a very moving clip by the way who agrees with that Okay, in the clip you shared that youth don't belong in prison. What do you see as effective alternatives for young people today? Well, like a lot of the great work that you do You definitely need mentors. They need they need something to stimulate their minds, you know Granted yet. He did make a mistake and commended a crime fine We all make mistakes everybody did things that we're not proud of with shame dove Everybody has at one point in time in their life. However with these young people that we're speaking about they do need something to Help them realize that they made a mistake and how to correct it and move forward from it and not stay stuck on it And keep committing the same things over and over or just getting worse because placing them inside jail Prison, what is it really doing right? You're putting a young person in a hostile environment And what do you expect to come out of that experience for this young person? it's that much harder on that young person to come out of that experience and Really make a Trastic change so of course they need some type of recreation mentoring Some type of therapeutic services to to really tap into them in the cell so they can figure out Who they really are and what they really want to be Okay, I agree definitely and Mohammed You had a similar well, you had an experience in solitary confinement as well Would you like to share with us a bit of how that has impacted you? Well, I spent seven years in solitary confinement. I went to prison at age 19 I got out at 45 I've been in every maximum security prison in New York State twice And when I went to solitary confinement, I was 20 I've been in the Bay in 1979 when you got sentenced and you went upstate they put you automatically in the Bay No disciplinary just because you got sentenced and it was time for you to go upstate and Then when I went upstate I was in Elmira And I'm from Elmira. I went to Auburn and at Auburn. I was the youngest person in this facility. I was 20 and I was there with men But because I was an athlete I didn't take into consideration my experience. Oh, what was going on? So, you know, I didn't disobey any Orders or any ruling fraction. I was just being a young man In the environment where I was trying to find myself and doing that in prison will put you in the box So I went to the box. I went to the box because I didn't get to my selling time They have a count and because you know, I think this is something like a Coney Island I don't know the real rash realities of it. I missed the count And they put me in the box. I got six months My first six months in the box As Israel was saying was pure madness You know, I it got to the point where it's not only was I speaking out involuntarily But paint chips that were in the cell became figurines. I was starting imagining that I'm looking at Abraham Lincoln I'm looking at something that a basketball player on the wall Because I was dealing with the rash reality of being in the environment that's abnormal, but I'm losing my mind at the same time And it was a daily struggle It was a struggle for seven years to stay lucid and same See, you know, it's just by the grace of God that I may be here to have this conversation with you Because you'll be talking to a man I want to hop over to Saigon for a second because we know that You went inside at the age of 16 and came out at the age of 22 What would you like to share just about that experience? To echo what both of these brothers have said First things first is a 16 year old was a child. I look back now when I was 16 And I see 16 year olds now and I go this kid is clueless You're oblivious to so much so many things in life when you're 16 years old so for somebody to take a mistake you made and Subject you to those kind of conditions and and hold you responsible and accountable For something you did at 16 years old and say you're gonna be in a position where it's gonna probably affect the rest of your life It's nonsense. It doesn't even make any kind of sense when you look at it You know because we all gonna make mistakes growing as a human being as a part of life and part of growing up is You know trial and error sometimes we do things we can't take back but and And our communities unfortunately, you know a lot of us are raised by our mothers without our fathers there So when we when we don't have that sense of you know leadership and guidance from a man not a not a male a man It leaves you like and then they throw you in a situation where you become Your six you could be victimized because the older guys proud a prowling the younger guys You can go to your cell and there and there's a joint under your pillow and you go. Oh, man Somebody left me a joint and if you smoke that joint You come back and there's a bag of laundry there and then the dude go. Oh, you got that joint You go. Yeah, good looking out thinking somebody looked out for you and now he goes now you gotta wash that laundry So now you're like what are you talking about?   What would you like to share about your experience? Yes, Gloria women's jails and men's jails are totally different I Can't say they're warm, but I'm saying they help each other out in some sense If somebody get hurt The women will help you They won't abandon you you know They look out for each other They feed one another if they're hungry Is our support system in some sense of the way inside? They care they take care of each other That's all I got to say about the women's inside the system because they don't take care of us. That's for sure So let's talk about that we talked earlier with Fareed about releasing agent people from prison And we talked about some he touched a little bit on health concerns So when you say they don't take care of us, can you tell us more about any health challenges that you faced while you were away They used to call me around two o'clock in the morning. I was there Plumber electrician Any maintenance jobs they used to call me at any time of the day. I used to work sometimes All night and all day one time I got sick and Over there you've got to see nurses screen You don't see the doctor you see a nurse She tells me oh you got asthma. I said no it doesn't feel like I asked him I know what asthma feels like I had it all my life doesn't doesn't feel like I was losing a lot of weight and Kept on going kept on going it took me a month and a half So they could take me out To take x-rays and find out that I had walking the moment Then I went to another facility I was trapped in one building which I was used to be exposed in an open ground the stress Just took over me and I got two strokes in that jail and the women's were the one that took me downstairs to the nurse and They took me downstairs. The doctor was just coming in the same time and she saw me. She says TV You're having a heart attack or stroke. She signed the papers because you can't go out Unless they sign papers out to take you to the outside hospital That's those seven days one time six days the other and Like I said with the women they look after each other women fell out on the floor We used to get our stretcher eight of us Depending on the weight of the woman carried out to the hospital There's always was us Doctors Whenever they were there You know, but you have to see a nurse first They don't know what you're doing this all Thank you for sharing that Mohammed you have a very interesting way of expressing Sort of the health needs of young people and adults and aging people excuse me Would you like to share that with our guests today? When I was young, you know, I got I thought it was a pretty good athlete So when you're young, you don't have any health problems So you can go in prison 10 15 years if you like 19 to 25 or 30 But I haven't going to sick call anything like that But then when you get like 35 40 You start developing illnesses like high blood pressure cholesterol arthritis from playing basketball and sports too much and Then you'll start to notice him because when you're young you think you were invincible You're gonna last forever But then when time go by and these illnesses come You have a different thought in reality into your life.  They have serious health problems once they get out And it's hard to access the necessary medical needs once you get out because many of us never filled out paperwork for Medicaid or insurance So these is new phenomenons to us and many of the men get frustrated and tired Because they become so introvert they don't want people to know they business But knowing your business is a way to get the help you need and they don't know how to navigate that yet so these are some of the differences and some of the experiences one will go through from a Young man to a older man once you do time Thank you Is my y'all I read in your bio that you're you're currently at the fortune society and you've done work with other Organizations to support young people. So my question for you is having this experience and solitary confinement How has that impacted you and your work as well as just your everyday life? Um, well now in this day, I'm not really gonna say it impacts me or it affects me in any type of way. Um, Pretty much it How it affected me then, you know, you got to take the consideration with solitary confinement is really designed for Right, it's punishment on top of punishment and I say that meaning jail is punishment. So going to the box is Additional punishment. So you're being punished on top of being punished And another nickname for solitary confinement, believe it or not is Jill Is it that ironic? so, um, I Mean when I when I revisited and I speak about my experience being a solitary confinement, I Mean, that's the only time like I guess you could say the The trauma comes back from that experience because I have to speak about it and things like that But it really doesn't bother me or affect me to that point because I feel people need to need to hear and understand What it's really like being in a six-by-eight cell 23 hours out of the day every day, you know but What I try to do is just have people understand and the young people that I've worked with understand that You don't want to go through that. You don't want to have to live you don't want to have to live that type of life You don't need that experience under your belt. Thank you I'm gonna go back to Saigon for a minute because you talked about You know young people Should you know you've been talking about like about alternatives and we need to work on this collectively So take us backwards for a minute when you were released when you were 22 years old What was that like for you re-entering the community? I Was 22 physically, but I was still 16 Because I will you know and then they don't encourage you to go to school, you know I remember I went I went got locked up in 1995 and Governor Pataki had taken all the college courses out of you know the state So once I got I was I was pretty smart as a kid. So I got I took the GED I Took my GED test and I got my GED when I was about 16 years old So I was I wanted to you know further my education, but there was nothing available for me to you know There was nothing else there.  They ready to graduate college, and I'm like wow man I'm still that same kid So that's the reason why I said I got to figure out something it took my insight to say What can I do? I could have went back to school, but it's almost like you know I felt like all that time was lost because like he said we become introverts We we become so into ourselves at the time in the box too so you become so in tune with yourself You really don't even care about other people at some point you start to be like you know nobody care about me So why should I care about anybody else and it's a sickness. It's like a sickness that it's kind of like you Can't even really help it so what I did I was like There's this one thing that you could do that you don't that you don't really have to have no qualifications for and that's rapping You know do you don't have you don't need to have a G did actually the more your Gangsta tells you could tell the better off you could do and once I seen that I was like I'm gonna sneak my way into this music business But instead of me talking about the hardships of my life and glorifying it I'm gonna do what my man's doing with these kids and I'm gonna say I'm gonna tell them why they shouldn't pick up a gun You know, I'm gonna tell them I'm gonna tell them the hard sides that the harsh realities of joining the gang It's funny because when you look at the artist is out there the little wanes and you know The guys who talk about shoot them up with Sioux gang bloods Crips That's they showed a little fancy dance. They showed a little Doraig hanging out the pocket, but they don't show the mother crying over the casket at the funeral They don't show those images in the videos.  We know you kill somebody's brother You kill somebody's nephew so the collateral damage that you affect when you go out you commit these crimes We don't you know these artists who I feel are in an influential place To raise our children need to be doing more because kids look up to these rappers I believe that's our most powerful weapon that we have right now because a kid could tell you everybody They could quote rap lyrics, but can't tell you you know 10 of the 50 presidents or 50 states. I'm sorry They can't they can't do that. They could tell you every member of the Wu-Tang clan, but they can't tell you simple things like you know The smallest little things man in the sad to see because it's like where where where do we as Elders now the elders where do we step in and say we got to do something about this? And that's what I'm trying to figure out Because I wanted to go to Gloria Because you talked a lot about when you just spoke about they didn't take care of us We had to take care of ourselves. You guys had to pull together and get things done. Could you talk a bit more about? What needs to be done to support people who are aging and present? They're aging The things that you used to do when they were 20 or 30 can't do they can't do now not even that as fast as they want to You can have You can have an education people don't want to hire you because you're age They want somebody younger so what is the education is helping you out in there for two unless you know people Unless you have contact with people You do You know and I think they need some place to go when they come out Because they don't know the system is you come into a futuristic world You're back in I don't know what year Inside, you don't know you don't know nothing about cell phones Medicaid Shelters and things like that Metro cards nothing You know, you don't have no credit scores. So when you come out you lost So they need some place to go and tell them and somebody that's been there They could show them the way You know For them to me it's time to let them go If the rest is low, let them go, right? So I have a couple more things sure it doesn't help I don't care how many years you give them after they The time they had they're still the same person You know, I mean not the same person when they came in another person, but I'm the same they're older They're gonna hurt nobody So why keep them in there? Why take that space? You know and why use all that money? Where is it going to? Thank you both Saigon and Ismail talked a bit about young people and them needing support and mentors Uh, Muhammad, would you like to share anything about the work that you do to support young people? Well when I came home, I noticed that we had a population of Young black males who were disinterested in everything. They were unemployable It was hard for them to be responsible for anything So I created a business. I I I did security on the executive protection level For many artists Uh many celebrities And what I did was I would hire them I would see a guy that was what we call a man child You see He's 17 18 19 20, but he like six five to 45 And I would train him I would train him on how to be a man how to be respectful how to be responsible Because he knew how to do security automatically because he knew how to survive And that's all he needed to know how to do survive. I can teach him the rest And once I gave him these trainings, I said you can't come to work with a do rag on I said, I don't pay you the way a baseball hat.    I tried to lead the choir by example See and these men now they work they have jobs They take care of their families and they're responsible people in their communities today I even have young men that's in college now in division one basketball You see so I know that when Men step in as you say Men can make a difference Absolutely So We have about five more minutes and I want to actually take this time to get some closing remarks from my panelists So today we've been talking about incarcerating children and the elderly so You have the air We're going to pretend that you have the air of the world right now And in your closing remarks, I would like you to share Why is it important that we stop incarcerating our children And the elderly and stop incarcerating families in our community and I want Saigon to start I would say first to these prosecutors These judges These ad as think of it if it was your child Would you want to see your child be subjected To the same conditions you're about to subject somebody else's child to Because you know when it hits home, that's when we want to be like hey, hey, wait, wait a minute But you quick to do it to somebody else's child So I think what what they need to do is Forget them what we need to do first What we need to do first For the young men and women in our community, we need to build We need to build self-esteem centers or something We need to build up our self-esteem as children Because as as a youth and all together because you see these young ladies who's You know these social networks they're using their sexuality to get attention for likes and views And because you know that that's how they build up their self-esteem and it's it's so sad You see these young brothers who feel like they need a gun or they need to join a gang to feel like They're alive or they're a part of something And that starts within us because if we don't put them in a position where they can lock up our children Then we won't be getting locked up. So we got to it starts really within us and and and our parents if you have children you got it like he said you got to you got to Teach these children to invest in themselves and teach them the importance of their future and not to throw their lives away And I think that's that first where we need to start once we get that We'll we'll see less and less and less of our children being incarcerated when we start at home and give them strong foundations Thank you For me, I just think sometimes is the money wise because like parents both work They don't have no kind the kids have no kind of support system because the parents are trying To reach their goals to you know, bring them up The kids are by themselves. They don't have nobody to go and nowhere to go To to do anything. So they'd be outside in the street Um hanging around trying to be with somebody trying to be like he said with a gang or with people that um Let them in To be their family part, you know, and I think they should make centers um For them to go to For music for rap for dancing any kind of um system that will work To keep them out of the streets so they could have some place to go Because while their parents are out there like everybody else, they're going to go play And they get themselves into more mischief and more problems That than they were sometimes, you know, because the parents is nothing only not my child You want to cover the sky with your hand? No one that your child might be doing wrong So I think they should make more centers and like I said like music and things Nowadays computers electronics. They love all them things. They'd be there for hours And they know how to take you to another spot in the world, which I don't even know but I'm just saying, you know That's what they need somewhere where they could go And parents, you know to really really stay in tune with the kids too They don't they'd be so busy working and their jobs and everything they forget about them too Okay, thank you So Mohamed you have the air of the world. What does the world need to know about this issue and what we're talking about today? If we say our greatest resources are our children But we treat our children like trash They're relying to the world Our greatest resource are our children Because when they come into the world They have the answers for all the ills that affect us But if we're looking for the cure for cancer or AIDS It's going to come through our children And if we don't protect them and guide them and nurture them and invest in them Then we do them to die So if you want to live Invest in and protect our most natural and precious resources, which our children What's up Um I was Everybody just You know said it all, you know, I don't even know how I can follow that but um Basically what I what I would like to put out there is, you know, it You would get different dollar amounts to how much it actually is to house A adolescent and on rikers island and upstate right you would hit different It ranges between 35,000 and 60 60 thousand dollars to house Um an inmate a detainee However, you want to frame it as right so for our young people As well as the older individuals Why keep wasting that money to house these people in these facilities, right? Well for the older people why keep wasting this money to house these people in these facilities and not release them And put that money towards services for these individuals when they are released back into society Right now for our young people on the other hand, right? It's unfortunate that our young people in our communities They already have So many different things weighing against them, right? So They turn to the streets. They have negative influences peer influences and older influences that make them Want to gravitate towards that type of lifestyle in the first place So they make a mistake commit a crime Now you're using once again All these thousands of dollars to house this young person in jail Instead of putting them in an alternative to a conservation program where they can receive certain services And actually benefit From it instead of putting them in a hostile environment where it could possibly break this young person Did I cut you off or were you complete now finish? I don't want to get too much in Okay, that's fine. So can we take a second to clap it up our panel? And I enjoyed learning more about you guys and hearing your experiences The audience you guys will have an opportunity soon to ask them some questions But before we get into that we're actually going to see a clip right now Muhammad Koti is believed to be 87 years old. He was sentenced to 25 years to life in 1978 for opening fire on a police officer Who survived he needs a wheelchair to get around. He's hard of hearing and suffers from a long list of ailments He's been turned down for parole more than six times Koti's incarceration and that of other seniors like him have sparked a movement to get elderly prisoners out of jail After they have served their time. It's my personal mission because of exactly what happened to me 64 year old Mujahid Farid is founder of a grassroots coalition called release aging people in prison or rap As a young man Farid gotten to trouble with the law and was sentenced in 1978 to 15 years to life He served 33 years. He was denied parole eight times and was released at the age of 62 When you talk about seniors the uh recidivism rate is you know In their single digits Statistics show the recidivism rate for the general population is about 40 percent But for senior citizens, it's about 3 percent Farid argues keeping the elderly behind bars is counterproductive It would save the public money It would save the useless Confident of people larry white is 79 years old and was incarcerated for 32 years He was denied parole four times There are no harm when they go on the street Their capacity to commit a crime is practically nil We see some change and i'm hopeful that there will be more I definitely think that the public is more aware of these issues state prison records show that as of january 2013 There are more than 9 000 prisoners over the age of 50 Representing about 15 percent of the prison population The rap campaign holds workshops with hopes that prisoners are given fair and inclusive release consideration when appearing before parole boards In harlem, sheryl wills new york exciting part Of today because i know everyone has been listening to everyone and every all of the information we've been sharing So now we're going to do some q&a with our panelists. Is that okay panelists? Yeah Cool So we have some people stationed in the auditorium who will bring you a mic If you have a question So this is question and answer, right? It's not announcements, right? So i want to really honor the time that we have so you guys can ask questions and really hear more From our panelists. We also have gabrielle and ferrits still with us So if you have questions for them from their earlier presentation, you can ask them at this time as well So who has a question? I know somebody does Hi I'll make it real quick. My name is laura whitehorn and i work with rap And I just did want to say that cotie who was in the Video just got parole And that that shows that there is an impact of all this work So my question for the panelists is what impact do you see since you've gotten out? In all the attention that has been brought to mass incarceration Can you see a difference? Are there examples you see Among the people you know of things that are already changing not just what the campaigns are changing Although that too, but what is changing in the consciousness of people in your community and yourselves Um one thing i've seen is i don't i don't know if this relation directly is Um when they change those drug laws I know man a lot of a lot of people were locked up for a long time for some stupid drug laws I knew dudes who was so 30 40 hours worth of crack and was doing 15 20 years for it There's no way you could tell me that selling 20 30 hours worth of drugs is worth 20 years of somebody's life So fortunately, you know, I don't know is the was a Rockefeller law or whatever it was You know, they they altered it or changed it and I know a lot of people came on which was a good thing Is there someone else from the panel who wants to respond to that? What a shame for many people in tax pay Because they got to understand, you know, what was actually happening from a racial standpoint of discrimination And also from a monetary standpoint See, I you know I in the black community, we don't get the monetary Aspect of it, but we get the racial aspect of it and then the white community They don't get the racial aspect of it. They get the monetary aspect of it. So when you start talking dollars and cents People start to understand that hey, you know, my money's being misappropriated And we need to do something about And you started seeing states that become bankrupt Their economies start to be affected See, we was always poor So we don't get the dollars and cents, but what we get the racial disparities So we talk to different audiences in two different languages So when Dr. Rock came that audience became one See many people got involved whites, blacks, Hispanics Everybody got involved because everybody had a vested interest in That campaign. So now I see today more people are informed about criminal justice issues More people are more active today And it's important that we become more active and more participation Those of you sitting in the audience you you want to finish right now. It's time to get off the fence It's time to get involved with some of these campaigns because guess what? This is not going away This is a call to action today Beautiful Do we have another question? Hi, my name is Sarah David Genzi. I work with the stop mass incarceration network New York is one of two states. I don't know if this was addressed Before I came in a little late Who sentenced 16 year olds as adults and I'd like to know What is happening? Or is there anything happening? Legislature wise or movement wise to address Just the heinous situation that we're in and just a little anecdote I was reading about uh, Louis Armstrong Satchmo Got into some trouble as a teenager 13 or 14 years old down in Louisiana He in the deep south He was sentenced or not sentenced. He was sent to what they called a reform school Where he learned to play the trumpet. So what are we doing now? It's It's it's funny you say that because I'm a direct experience for that when I was when I caught my little crime I did my little crime. I thought I could elude the law, you know, I thought I was One on the land so I went down to virginia, which is a commonwealth and They caught me in virginia. I got caught in virginia. So, you know, I thought I was being slick I'm like, I want to fight extradition. You know, I don't know why they got me locked up But I was 16 years old and they put me with other children And it was kind of like it made sense. It was like, okay, we all made a mistake But I was a monk's kid with my peers, you know, so so we acted like children All the youthful expression and all of that that's what we were in there doing We weren't in there, you know, scheming and plotting. We were in there, you know Plank playing cards and having fun being children And then when new york came and got me and extradited me, they put me with adults The same crime just did two different states and two different legislates two different laws So when I got to new york and they put it was like a it was a shock Because now I'm not with children anymore now where the god is just 32 years old and he want my cookies I'll be like, hold on man.  It's heinous and it's It's very bad Thanks for asking that great question. We talked a bit about it earlier Gabrielle harvests prescos also going to talk to you a bit about the landscape of the legislation Thanks So before we spoke a little bit about the campaign and just to remind people that Ways you can get involved to change the age of criminal responsibility in new york as you can Invite us to come speak. There's materials outside. You can check out our website We did have a pretty extensive conversation about the issue earlier on in the panel and just to talk about like Saigon's experience I think really puts A face and a heart and a lived experience on the reality for so many young people Who are in new york's adult jails and prisons and also there's a strong research base that shows that these Approaches that prosecuting children as adults not only fails individuals is terrifying for children But it fails public safety when children are prosecuted as adults They are more likely to go on to commit future crime and violence than when they are treated in the youth system When they get the kinds of services and support they need when they have access to developmentally appropriate Services and when even the screening instruments that are used in the adult system the kinds of instruments that are used the Psychological profiles and other instruments are not even normed for children And so the whole mechanism of the criminal justice system is designed first of all terribly for everyone including adults But really does not fit the developmental age and of children And so some of the things that we can do and what's happening is there's a commission I mentioned earlier that's about to make recommendations about how the age should be raised And what we really need people to do is to contact their legislators and to say that you support raising the age of Criminal responsibility and you support getting kids out of jails and prisons and you can contact the CA if you need more help on How to message that we also have materials in the back and on our website. Thanks. I can pass the mic to the next question Thank you Hi, first of all, I just want to thank all of you for this incredible program I wish I hope many many others see it as well. I mean I'm active in rap now and I do know Just spoke to him today anyhow, but I'm interested in the youth also I was fortunate enough Just I don't know because of being a teacher, I guess to go to Graderford prison and I met Some people one in particular who had been incarcerated since he was 15 And um, that had an incredible impact on me and I'm just wondering What kind of movement there is in new york that Is taking in you know working with the traction that we've got through the supreme court decision Of uh, you know now juveniles cannot be Tried as adult or they can't be sorry. That's not it. They can't be automatically given Um Life without parole Lwop and it seems to me a lot of those arguments are really really important having to do with neuroscience and And I just I'm just hoping that that a lot is being based on that because I think there's a movement That's a landmark decision. That's that's a watershed as to use your expression That that that now is supposed to be although in pennsylvania, they're fighting it and there's a case now with campus songster who's challenged and and because they they don't want it to apply retroactively So my question is Is there something Where more people are being urged to to go to prison? I mean, I know that was incredibly important to me Um, especially white people getting back to what James Baldwin has said about relatively conscious whites getting involved to have some privilege I mean, I think that's one thing, you know reaching out to more people And using uh, that supreme court Decision is is another and decarcerate pa is there's something in New york like decarcerate pa where you know, they're emphasizing all these schools are closing and yet they're building more and more Prisons are expanding more and more prisons in pennsylvania, but I don't know how much new york is doing with that regard So I got several questions. I hope that isn't too many So i'm going to ask that we just try to address your one your last one, I think About are there any movements to de to sort of drop the rate of incarceration of young people? Is that what you're asking? What are the movements? Personally, you know, like looking at the system not just And the way it's affecting everybody People who are paying taxes as well as people who are oppressed and you know, we're victims of all of this or the system Okay Is there someone in the panel who has a response to that? I have a little pinto just to get me in Uh, please the campaign manager for uh, raise the age And will you stand up for a minute? The question a few years ago. We're in a Washington, D.C. I believe At a strategy session with the scla pa as well as Cure la and this was on the table how to get more people involved and to actually call coalition our efforts together To bring this issue to life And this is what's being done. If you take a look around the room, you'll see there's a lot of well-being white folks in You see So they're here They're not going anywhere. They're involved But the crux of the matter is that we have to get more grassroots level Of the people that's directly involved and affected the black and latino community has to get involved And once we can merge and marriage these two communities, we wouldn't be having this conversation Legislation will be passed Politicians will be hearing us because we'll be speaking in one voice right now. We're a little fractured out belongs. We have this discussion It will get there. It's going to be an uphill battle understand Doing what we're doing. It's not an overnight sensation Belongs you in the fight We're gonna win And We have a couple of oh See I just wanted to add to that So the correctional association has been advocating to downsize the prison system in new york state For decades and finally the governor started closing prisons and closing youth facilities So that long preceded Decarcerate we work in tandem with decarcerate, but one of the major Issues for the correctional association is to downsize the prison industrial complex starting with new york state So I just want you to know that's going on been going on for a long time here Thank you We have a couple of more minutes for questions. I want to remind everyone that for read and gabriel are also still available for questions Hi, my name's sorry. I work at the Bronx defenders criminal defense attorney and um Thank you so much for sharing your stories today very briefly Um, mohammed you talked about how the first six months of I think seven years of solitary You said that they they felt like madness to you And i'm wondering from all of you any of you who've served in solitary What got you through and if you um, you know looking back from where you are now What's gotten you through even since your release Uh, and what kind of support would you have wanted when you are in solitary or after solitary from for example Your criminal defense attorney But really got me through is this they have an antiquated law library in the library inside And the general library used to have national geographers from like 1930 So I used to read national geographers to travel the world I used to read readers digest To travel the world I used to read fortune magazine Of falls basketball digest new york times time magazine every jet You know to say like I read everything that can get my hands on Because I you know if you just leave leave it up to your home devices with nothing I'd be stopped maybe mad on medication And I had problems believe me when when release You know, I I I remember and I tell the story I said I couldn't walk a full new york city block my first week home No, nothing was stopping me. No one's would prevent me from doing that It's just that for so long I was always told where to go and where to stop That when I was able to do it on my own, I couldn't do it on my own call And I started crying Because I said something wrong with me, man Why can't I walk this block? And I had to battle through that and how I battled through that I called other people Who were in the same condition I was I called accidents a friend of mine the Julio Medina. He's executive director there And then once I called him it was a relief Because I was talking to somebody who's been where I've been at And they got me through it See, you know only those who've been through what you've been through can help you go through what you're going through Your family love you Your friends love you, but they really don't understand Thank you so much Mohammed We've actually Run out of time for the questions and answers However, our panelists will still be around afterwards if you want to if you need a question to ask them Or if you want to take a picture with them So now first of all, let's clap it off our panelists again As if the day wasn't already exciting enough. We're about to actually have a performance by By a wonderful brother and advocate and performer who also does work with young people On rikers island. So as the panelists exit the stage, we're going to have messiah come to the stage Peace and love How are you doing? All right I like to thank uh, the correctional association the juvenile justice project for putting on this Much-needed program and for also allowing my voice to be a part of it My name is messiah ramke soon. I'm originally from trinidad west indies And I've been working with incarcerated youth for about seven years now And it really started off via my background with the arts as a performing poet And I had a friend who came home from doing 11 years And maryland and he started his own organization and asked me to come on board to go in these prisons and these gels Where young people were housed. So we were going to Shelton ham jail dc jail baltimore juvenile facilities victor culling gels and we would we would speak and also share art with these young people And I saw that he had a real gift not just a gift of gab but also using his experience to identify with the meeting and where they were And bringing them to a different reality So that really inspired me to go even harder with that work where I am currently a rikers island Working with 16 to 18 year olds on a daily basis with the program titled the abel program to help reduce recidivism with adolescents here In new york city. So aside from that we also do Showcases in the jail. So One of my students Who was that rikers is currently home now and we're going to get him to howard university. He came out today Aside jows stand up right So this is testimony When we talk about effect and change and the brother said earlier All of us got to come to the forefront, you know what i'm saying because i'm one player I'm not going to get the whole c 74 You know, but if I could get a few guys you come in you get a few guys But this is a young brother. He didn't really need to push. He already had his mind right He knew that he wanted to affect change. He just needed to outlet And when I work with these young people on a daily basis, that's oftentimes what you find You know, if they have programs or they have a curfew And they live in with a grandmother or someone and they can't get in the house because the mother is out party And they're unstable condition then they're locked out and they get picked up by a cop for missing the curfew It's not really a fault Right, so you deal with these type of conditions where resources are needed. It's not that these young people just want to be out here While it's survival Right, so that's something I want us all to think about as we move forward with this work I got my other brother who came with me today who grew up In c 74, but he's now a sous chef in Japanese style cooking. Right. He's a sous chef In in in the city, right doing this thing so But um And you know It's been a blessing that the art form was able to lead me there via spoken words So they call me today to share some poetry with you and the poem I'm gonna do is entitled order of removal Order of removal. Have you all been dealing with um immigration detention as well? All right, because that's something that I also Experienced and was able to succeed coming from trying to add that struggle, right, but this poem was derived from an immigration case whenever you have a deportation case Entitled order of removal proceedings Say brothers get caught up brothers get caught up for the cheese Like a trap mouse At 15 He saw his first trap house At 16 He pulled his first strap out No home He found shelter in juvie prisons DC jail Rikers island and new beginnings new beings who never knew What royalty felt like Never wore his belt tight. So besides his pants his gun was only held tight life on a whole strong soul who became weak For his once I see him once a week. He's been sitting for months I go in To do my poetry workshop The potency his words god can't be confined by all the police The world god He told me he worked out his pops a boxer Pictures of Pacquiao on his wall just like him. He's powerful but small.  He's a soldier at times his arms get too heavy for his shoulder The burden his mom's carried like a boulder every day. He's getting older Just had a birthday group programs He got an a on the survey Never been dumb There was literacy level Is below sea level caught up in the beast the devil eyes on fire beneath the tea kettle now. He's 18 Release state dreams It's about time Thought he was free till the gatekeepers gave him adult time When will the bulb shine In this dark hour in his bloodline Is star power? No bet a smart scholar with no ged Intellects young Malcolm X and the fads like FedEx mail. They shipped him to federal jail off to michigan family can't afford to visit him recidivism In the prison system It's the heartbeat of Wall Street private jails Create profit sales every time we hear the bells on the clock Black males are the stock like slaves on the dock Now check this Prison complexes in texas Decrease because of less entries more exits The state lost money So what's nexus? Go after the mexicans immigrants all together Arrested guilty and innocent all together more cell mates to fill more bed space if not they lose money more dead weight is called capitalism That's why we face capital punishment 40 years after imprisoned Verizon stocks rising from collect calls Leaching the life behind these dead walls In this game of debts and debtors Some met some mentors Mentorn from the thorns of crooked judges Nichols a day for cooking lunches Hundreds of push-ups hooks and punches Abundance of prayers and books from pundits Keep his mind clear Refuel seeking renewal in cuffs He's a jewel in the rough from the streets where life beyond 18 is iffy More black men in jail than slaves in 1850 Now seriously Look in the mirror sea And tell me That's not a conspiracy Cocaine the color of white supremacy while crack rock equal black When the latch lock Is frightening White men doing powder Came home in an hour Black men rocking the hard place turn basin to hard rock sitting sand quitting and Comstock Every night He writes from a lonely cell Like etherage night The poet who married Sonia Sanchez before the death of his life My brother Troy did 11 Got his life right now. He's a legend pledging to elevate the state of his brethren My cousin locked down right now Doing beyond 40 Talking like he be home shortly That strength at its best Awake No man can bench press not weight as in lifting bars and dumbbell But weight as in patience living behind bars In some cell compelled to kneel Seeking the lord for approval Keeping it real He swore to be truthful your honor. Will you appeal this order of removal? Order of removal. Thank you for listening One more thing Please Thank you Thank you for listening Great job Also, thank you to the brother angelo For inviting me and the great the work that you're doing man. This is not the first time We've shared platforms on this type of agenda. So salute to you, man And we need more young brothers at the forefront doing this type of work Which is why I brought some of these brothers with me today So, um, I like the network with you guys I know a lot of you are probably doing progressive things in the community And like I said, I met rikers every day working with these young 60 to 18 year olds And one of the greatest challenges that I deal with is how to Help connect them with resources upon coming home, right? So whatever ideas, you know that you guys may have or support systems or connections or whatever it may be We need to connect and we need to build and we don't need to be merged together You know, we talk about a lot of times we get into this criticism about the negative things going on in society But it seems like the positive people Seem like the positive people are very divided You know, it's like everybody have their own movements But we have to really know who each other are And what we're all doing in order to be able to better support our movements. All right Thank you So, yeah, my name is messiah You can look up my world all messiah.com is my website a l l m e s s i a h all messiah.com To our instagram or messiah to follow some of the other things that i'm doing in terms of art and activism And also I have some promotional stuff and CDs to give out. God bless. Peace. Thank you messiah So, thank you guys for being with us all day. You've guys heard from saigon earlier on the panel and now he's going to Join us for one last time. Let's clap it up for saigon I just wanted to say good. Good. You know, I have a great day. Sophia. I really can hear the support. Sophia She's a wonderful wonderful individual this lady This lady has changed my life. She taught me things about myself. I didn't know I've been going up to the ca with a friend of mine who brought me up there and the things they do for our people in our community It's amazing. So I just want to thank her and give her a big round of applause. Thank you He's not going to get off that light We really appreciate saigon spending time with us and you all spending time with us But it's through saigon's and every single soul who's got a beating heart In their chest that we can really make a difference in the system. We can get our elders out of prison We can get our young people out of prison. We can get everybody in between and you know in america You either claim to be young or old and nobody's claiming to be old So we can get everybody out and do what we really need to do Which is put some real value on our most important natural resource, which is our people So thank you for coming out. Please sign up get involved with us We want to see you on 125th street and adam clayton pal boulevard in the next 20 days. Thanks for coming


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