Hey everyone welcome to the Zelda Informer podcast episode number 10 I believe. This week we have a special guest who was supposed to be here two weeks ago and then bailed and then bailed again last week. It's not my fault. HMK is in the house. What's up guys how you doing? I'm glad to be here thank you so much for having me. No problem I'm glad you could finally make it thought it was going to be like two months later. A co-host is also here as usually I'm not going to say as always Alfred yep I'm here and we have our comic artist Mr. Trey returning yet again for his second week in a row. How's it going everyone? Awesome awesome all right so this week we didn't get a lot of news in terms of Zelda but we're still going to talk about Zelda since this is a Zelda podcast and we're going to go through a topic we didn't quite get to last week and that's because we don't have anything else to talk about. So that topic it's basically how the trailer that they released for Breath of the Wild or as it was called at the time the Legend of Zelda for Wii U in 2014 basically became the base for the entire game so Iji and Oma in the interview said that after creating the trailer he really wanted to put that in the game so he ended up making it come true there's a lot I learned from that trailer once we put that element in the game it made us think what else can we do with this enemy how else could we fight it it expanded a new story idea as well and the trailer became the basis for the whole game and the mechanic that he's talking about is the flipping off the horse slow motion shooting thing in the eye that wasn't in the game at the time so you really wanted to get that in the game and once they did that they kind of used the whole trailer to for everything and what what's interesting that somehow that expanded story I don't get that so what do you guys think about the idea that apparently in 2014 when they were all gung-ho that this game was coming out in 2015 that suddenly that trailer like made them rethink the whole game well I remember at one point reading something along the lines of how what when Eiji Aonuma was explaining why the game was delayed why the game was delayed when reading that interview even though my blood was boiling every time around like we could have had this game already he did state that some mishaps when communicating with his team there are things that he didn't like about the game there are things he didn't like about the game but when he said when he saw things he didn't like he would tell them I don't like this but when he saw things he did like he didn't say that he liked it so a lot of stuff they did like when they're developing the game end up getting scrapped the next time you would see the team and so I guess that makes Eiji Aonuma yeah I guess that kind of was like in that whole things since he's saying that oh we had to build this up this is what we had in 2014 so like a lot of things must have shifted along the line along Breath of the Wild's development which is really really weird and I really hate when Nintendo does that because they do they seem to do that a lot especially with Twilight Princess because there are a lot of things in the first few trailers for Twilight Princess E3 2014 GDC 2005 no wait why am I saying 2014 I meant to say E3 2004 GDC 2005 like the best unveiling of a game ever right that we saw a lot of stuff in those two trailers that we did not see in the final game and I it just makes you wonder I'm like what what was that stuff I just want to know what was that thing they scraped like we saw that yeah like giant forest big battle in the open field right and there is the castle looked completely different we saw like a giant wooden man in the middle of a forest we saw these dungeons that we would never step foot in I just wanted to know what that was so I feel that's a very similar case to what's happening with Breath of the Wild like there was a lot of stuff he had planned for the game around the time of 2014 and 2015 but that miscommunication that attributed to the game's delay I feel that was because of a lot of stuff that he liked end up getting scraped and then he had to go back to the drawing board and that drawing board was the 2014 trailer and then that's the stuff he had to incorporate into the game I feel that might have been a case and you know that might have been something that happened sure sure uh Tray and Alfred you got anything else to say um this kind of reminds me of what you see in movies a lot where what you see in the trailer you see a bunch of scenes in the trailer that aren't don't either don't make it into the final cut of the movie or like just for the purpose of telling a bit of a story in the trailer um I think the clearest one of the clearest examples of that I could think of is um love it or hate it The Amazing Spider-Man 2 where there's that one line where um Harry says to Peter hey you're being investigated or something like that and Peter replies why he says well is it that the question of the day that line never made it into the movie another more extreme examples of stuff like this where you see um big scenes that you're you see in a movie trailer you're like wow I can't wait to see that in the movie and it it never happens um and so it's kind of disappointing when that happens in video games too because you look at something um like you're talking about the E3 trailer for Twilight Princess or the GDC trailer um where you look at something and you're like man I can't wait to play that and then they change it um I think in this case when Anuma said that whatever the game like when they showed off the trailer for the first time at uh the game awards I think it was um the trailer they showed was quote unquote actual gameplay it was not scripted story um and there was a there's a bit of buzz about that and there was a uh good fan reaction to that because they saw this like cinematic battle that technically the player had control over and so I imagine that he saw that and was like wow we we need to do more of that we need to see more things like that that um that could that seem like they're scripted but they're not they're things that the player can do um in a very cinematic way um and so it's it's kind of disappointing when we see things that don't make it into the game um based on the trailers but it's also really cool to see how sometimes the response to those trailers fuel the game um I you know this this whole thing has been in production for we don't even know how long could have been years before it was actually announced um it's no last guardian uh but it has taken it's sweet time and coming out and they've made sure to tease us with a bunch of stuff and like oh it's it's coming out this year we guarantee you it's coming out this year and we're going to you it's coming out no this year I know that we said that last year but this year is for sure so I don't think that uh if they delayed it again they'd keep much faith with their fans but um I do like the direction that the game's going and I'm glad to see that the response to that trailer was something that fueled it yeah I don't think we're gonna have to worry about a delay um technically the only official statement is that it's coming out next year so even if it doesn't launch with the nx assuming the nx also keeps its launched period um it's still not a delay people might think it's a delay but it's not officially a delay if that game doesn't release with the nx then that's gonna be a major major yeah I don't know why one yeah that's gonna be a huge miss opportunity in order to give this the only game they showed off at e3 I went to e3 played the thing six and a half times and then yeah let's not release it when the nx comes up it all us nintendo fanboys would just cry man we need that for the nx that would be so disappointing right because sony they have they have to get this that way someone's new no like I'd switch to sony at that point oh okay oh look at that but man that's the straw that'll break everyone's back nintendo hope you're listening don't launch it outside of the nx launch window they're not listening because you're gonna lose everyone I mean because like they you saw what happened with Twilight Princess being released for the we as launch that helped the sales a lot and they can't repeat what they did with Wii U and I love the Wii to death I love my Wii U but I mean they the launch title was the launch lineup was so ass what terrible I know what like just dance hey here's another Super Mario game see I'm okay I know this is a little bit off topic but you brought it up I wrote an editorial on this before the Wii U came out and I actually went through the launch lineup for every nintendo system every PlayStation every Xbox every Sega system ever released the Wii U's actual launch lineup isn't that bad in fact it's better than most systems launch lineups it's that they didn't one they didn't have like a killer game as an example when the n64 came out it literally had one game at launch but that one that's all I needed it Mario 64 that's all it was like yeah it was like a killer game so it didn't necessarily have a killer game but most console launches don't have a killer game most console launches sometimes don't even have exclusive games it's actually kind of crazy because I because I was just like you before the Wii U governor I really wasn't that excited about the launch lineup and then I started looking at it like you know this launch lineup isn't really that bad at the time zombie you was exclusive it had what had the new version or it was an old version of Madden but whatever a new version of Madden coming out at the time I had the current Call of Duty game coming out it had Assassin's Creed 3 Assassin's Creed like it actually had like a really solid lineup for launches and then that the exclusive games they got like four or five exclusive games including obviously the Mario game which I think is still a really good game it's just all right yo that franchise that the new Super Mario Bros franchise seems like kind of overdone I thought the one that came out with a Wii U was the Super Mario World now it was new no no no that came out that holiday it was that one it came out that holiday I like that one better than new Super Mario Bros yo check this check this check this like all of Nintendo's consoles since the Super Nintendo home consoles have had a killer game the Super Nintendo had Super Mario World come on and uh and 64 as you said Super Mario 64 the GameCube had Super Smash Bros melee people were dying for that game we the Twilight Princess so like the Wii U some new Super Mario Bros you couldn't it's not up to standard I mean yeah the games weren't bad but they weren't amazing and I'm like you you need to strike the iron wall you have to strike the iron wall it's hot with the NX they need to have breath the wall as a launch towel or you know get ready for the loss of sales but I mean Kimishima I believe in Kimishima because he's the businessman first and then a president he's like the first business savvy president we've ever had in Nintendo um and I believe him saying that the reason why they pushed back the NX the launch because apparently they the rumor has they had it ready for holiday season this year but they decided to push it back in order to have titles and when he said that because March is a very weird launch month for a console so I mean there's tax returns so they're probably like backing on that that that well and there's a tax return season and on top of that it's just before the end of the fiscal year right so it's actually like if they are going to launch the NX and they want their uh because they already had like a really bad Q1 if they don't want if they want to show optimism to their investors it can't be oh well we have the NX coming out later this year no it has to be optimism now they need to see the NX is actually going to sell right um and and even at launch it's going to sell a couple million because Nintendo always sells a couple million at launch so it's it's probably going to look good either way yeah because I mean like if they get it out then but I'm really I'm really curious to see what these launch dollars are because Nintendo was so confident in pushing this thing back to March I really want to know what this is and come September hopefully we'll get the final reveal of the NX what it is and you know we can see Breath of the Wild amongst that launch lineup because man I just I need I don't want I need to be wowed by this launch lineup they better just bust out the Breath of the Wild bust out a new Kirby bust out an F-Zero bust out Pikmin before bust out Super Mario Galaxy 3 they just need to just destroy the dream lineup the dream line the dream so just a correction just a correction because you guys um I remember when I was doing that that editorial about the launch lineups uh Nintendo has traditionally had pretty strong lineups but they Melee was not a launch game that it wasn't a year after no no their big their big game at launch was Luigi's Mansion and that was a fantastic freaking game it it was a fantastic game but it wasn't a system seller right well it should have been that game is should have been but it wasn't um I'm just I'm just literally going through the the DS also did not have any killer launch game Metroid Prime Hunters Metroid Prime Hunters uh yeah Super Mario 64 DS ended up being like the best selling launch game that was just a remake um obviously we all know the Wii story and the Wii U story so it's really mostly the uh was I believe the Game Boy Advance the uh Super Nintendo and the NES all had pretty stacked launch lineups so but if you think about it Nintendo has never really had like there's no real consistency with them well you know Game Boy I guess if you know wait a minute wait a minute Super Mario Land what Melee came out a month after the after Gamecube's release was it a month after yeah when that so it was within the launch window but it wasn't a launch game yeah man good enough man I will wait a month to get me like fuck that you're just like good enough good I'm just saying like you know launch like I know Nintendo likes doing this launch window stuff but technically launch lineups are what's available right right right right but that's not really so yeah but the Gamecube did Gamecube just like the Wii like the Wii had Twilight Princess obviously but like like in the months after it it had like killer game with the killer game coming out like non-stop for that first year um so it was it really kept the momentum with core gamers especially um obviously the casuals reading of Wii sports plus you know Wii Fit uh Just Dance all that stuff that was coming out at the time still coming out today Just Dance apparently still sells I just want to know what who what Nintendo's thought process was with the Wii and the game lineup I'm like man this thing is so dry like compared to all the other systems like man I think it was like Ubisoft has her back so you know we could just put this out and we could scribble not yeah well that's actually one reason I I already have I believe I know some people don't want to believe uh Tetsu Tetsumi Kimashima when he said that you know the NX didn't come out this holiday because they wanted to make sure they had enough games not just at launch but like in the first year um and I'm just like yeah that actually makes sense because look at what just happened with the 3DS and the Wii there was there was big prize spells like at the beginning the Wii U's was worse than the 3DS because at least the 3DS had like Ocarina of Time 3D oh even at the wait for that title yeah I remember I had to play like Samurai were your chronicles and I was like yeah more months shaken like games were not that great you had straight matter nothing and then like Super Monkey Ball Ridge Racer and not a lot of good games I don't think there were any first party launch titles for the 3DS were there none I thought they had any well they had the AR they had exclusives like they had the samurai were your chronicles but that was it yeah pilot wins oh yeah yeah yeah none of those are like none of those were like oh man I have to go buy a 3DS because the 10 dogs plus cats is out right that's true yeah it's it's been an interesting period so hopefully they nail it with the NX launch they have no reason not to at this point we haven't had Wii U games are essentially a full year um plus NX games probably started development at least two years ago the launch lineup games that is and I'm really hoping that they just nail it out of the park we'll see hopefully the September rumors are true and we finally see what this thing is and what their plans are uh move on to our next topic uh so earlier this week I think it was this week I wrote an editorial talking about art style in the Zelda series and how the Zelda series constantly changes the art style all the time and whether or not that's a good or bad thing and how it is compared to like gameplay and what's more important so the topic I want to raise here and I'm not gonna say much about it because I've said a lot already is how important do you guys think art style is for the Zelda series everything yeah it's everything for me it's everything being an artist it's everything to me I'm sorry I gotta like you gotta like it sets the tone so like with Twilight Princess they have this serious like you know it's like a dark kind of themed tone art style whereas like Wind Waker has this cell shaded I don't think it would work very well if they were like oh let's give Wind Waker this really dark you know tone and my counter that what if the gameplay just sucks I mean I still think it's everything because think about like a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn right certain people look at that and be like I'm not playing this it's it's yarn it's this it's that and yeah exactly it's a great game I think that people a lot of people look at it and they'll make their judgment before they actually play it based on the art style sure that's true yeah but I mean when we're talking about Zelda it's come to the point where like all you need to say is Zelda and that's that's already a huge drawing on itself you could say Zelda CD I though I mean first of all those games are not called the Legend of Zelda it's just links faces of evil Zelda one of gamelan and try for serials is called the Legend of Zelda yeah I really don't hate that game as much as a lot of people are I don't dislike it either but it did not sell I actually I bought it and returned it like a day after I got I love try for serials I thought the level design was really great in that game I really love the dungeons it felt like a really short demo for a 3d4 swords adventures so I was like well I mean it's like that game is longer than a link between worlds no I know it just it like the levels felt short like they're all based I'm not going to do that never oh yeah yeah you have to play it longer triggered as you get deeper into it for the levels get a lot longer but going back to art style I do I get I get what he's saying about how it's everything but I wouldn't say it's everything I would say it's a very like one of the most important things like uh like if you had to be boiled down to three core things of Zelda it would be one of those three core things and it's definitely art design because I mean you have like you said you have to when it comes to choosing your art design and how well you uh present it that is what conveys the message of the game or conveys the gameplay of the game itself like you know Wind Waker it's not going to look good or I don't think it's going to play good if it had the Twilight Princess design and vice versa but um you know it it it's that design that has to help show gamers what this game is capable of doing gameplay wise and story wise it has to be that delivery it's that backbone I think yeah there you go it yeah it's it's a good backbone I wouldn't say it's everything but it is a big backbone especially with uh those other streams because I mean uh you can't really ask that question with something like you know Mario or Metroid or sometimes because they they had a pretty consistent art style or pretty consistent style to their games uh with some uh slight variations here and there but Zelda is always changing Zelda is always evolving the only thing that is constant in Zelda I would say is the the story the story and the fluid character designs in themselves uh you know we we know what Link looks like you can draw him in any type of style but we know it's like okay that's Link you know oh that's Zelda okay that's Ganondorf you know but um when it comes to the art styles it's always evolving it's ever fluid and um that is a very important thing in Zelda so I do believe it's like it's the backbone I wouldn't say it's like it's it's not everything because I believe that gameplay is everything for Zelda but it's definitely a backbone you know something very important something that cannot sleep on so I our style is it's important I think we changed Nate's mind no no you haven't no our style is important that's that takes a miracle trait I know right no my mind has been changed a lot I almost put a Zelda game above Zelda 2 on my favorite list was it Traverse Heroes no but Traverse Heroes did make my top five I'm sorry I don't like that game I try I know you don't it's okay most people don't like Zelda 2 either I love that game but I just I'm used to people hating the games I'm like um maybe I just have bad taste like a lot of people love Ocarina of Time I just think it's yeah don't start just don't start that up I love Skyward Sword and a lot of people don't like Skyward Sword I love Ocarina of Time I think Ocarina of Time is number one to me and Skyward Sword is number two and a lot of people are like what and I'm like yeah I adore Skyward Sword I think Ocarina of Time for me is like number 15 so our style obviously matters I think our style invokes feelings and players especially when you talk about like hype levels just think about that Wii U tech demo that we're never going to see again in that style I'm a bit salty about that it became like the most talked about thing at E3 that year despite other consoles or despite other games and despite the fact it was just a tech demo and it was like the most tweeted about thing out there it was like space world all over again yeah kind of well twitter wasn't around back then but if it was it would have been like that uh the internet was a buzz as much as it could be before social media yeah we just like carrier pigeons back and forth back then yeah yeah I think our style matters it's definitely important but I also think the Zelda series does this weird thing okay it's really unique in that there isn't really a singular visual identity for the series there they will experiment with whatever art style they think fits whatever gameplay design that they're doing so I think like what Trey was talking about with art style and like you know it you know being this big important thing I think it's more so the art style they do it as a complementary feature to their gameplay they don't really build it as we have to do this art style and let's build a game around it and there's as much to look at it like take the Wind Waker the big reason the Wind Waker does what it does is because at the time they they they really couldn't get the technology in the Gamecube to render the C fast enough to do it in any other art style like they were kind of forced into a certain direction and then they experimented with that direction ended up enjoying it I ended up loving it a lot of us did some people still don't like it too bad it happened um and it got remade and looked even better so suck it well let me um pose a question real quick say if like as the new Zelda not you know like they make a new one down the line and it has the art style of say mad world how would you feel about that that's dude I'm imagining right now that's about see I liked mad world but I'm not I'm not hating on mad world but I'm saying like it's one of those things that you you like okay that's a drastic change let me you see the art style and then you think about and you sit on it and you're like well let me see the gameplay afterwards like I feel like seeing like mad world you're just gonna you're gonna kind of question yourself and be like really like you know I don't know that's how I feel I was always like I never felt that way with Zelda games like I'll see a Zelda game on veil I look at the art and I might be like eh that's not I'm not really feeling it but then I keep reminding myself it's a Zelda game just play it see what you think like when the winmaker was unveiled I was the back of 2002 or was it 2001 it was 2002 okay so I would have been 16 and I remember looking at it and being like well I'm kind of let down because I thought it was going to be something like space world which looked like an evolution of Ocarina of Time so I was kind of let down but I was like but it's Zelda like it's not going to suck it can't suck but I've never I've never at that point I had never played a Zelda game I didn't love Force Heroes I love Force Heroes so anyways so I gave it a shot I tried I bought it day one gave it a shot and I loved it it was great the art style it was definitely I went into it thinking it was going to be like a children's version of Zelda and came out of it with came out of it after the story completed and everything I'm like okay I know kids gonna get this yeah like that game game is way darker than adult a lot of adult things are covered in that game and it made me kind of realize as I look back on the series and the whole art style and why it matters so much is I still take issue that a lot of the times I think the art direction choices have been based on the hardware they're making the games on more than it's been based on what they think visually looks best with a game like I already mentioned like the winmaker choice was made because of them they wanted to do this ocean thing and it just wasn't going to work with how they were on it to do it on the Gamecube in a different art style in Twilight Princess that was a reaction to fans in North America who were upset with the winmaker art style and actually to the current president of Nintendo was the one who told Iggy no one know you cannot make the winmaker too like you can't do that people are not going to like it and that's what led to Twilight Princess and that was a reactionary because that's a popular fantasy art style and it sold really really well got people super hyped yada yada yada and then Skyward Sword came out well Skyward Sword was doing these things with motion controls and they were on a system that wasn't in HD and if they went for a similar style to Twilight Princess which is how they started development it wasn't going to look a lot different from Twilight Princess so it actually was going to make the Wii itself not look that powerful because it's still making a game in 2011 that looks like a game in 2006 so like they needed to do an art direction that looked better without being in HD and didn't necessarily get direct comparisons to a game they've done before hence they went with the painter style which looks either beautiful on the Wii it looks even better in HD but I mean at the time I didn't know any better never saw it on emulator and I thought it was awesome now we have Breath of the Wild and Breath of the Wild has to deal with the limitations of the Wii U it's this huge massive open world game and it's trying to do all this stuff in it and I don't think if they went with a different art direction let's say they went with a more Twilight Princess ask art direction I don't think they could do all the stuff they're doing with this game I think it would take too long you know honestly that's kind of why I'm stuck because I kind of like I think the art directions aren't really chose for the reasons that people think they're chosen right right I think it's hardware based they have to do certain things and then if Zelda starts tanking which they felt like it was with the Wind Waker then they're like oh man okay we gotta go back and just like go with this the style everyone expects because that's gonna sell well it's this weird pattern then because they they make the game based on the hardware limitations of one console and then people don't like that so they base the next game around the graphics that they're trying to build and then people don't like that so then they go back to what they had originally well it's not that people didn't like that like obviously Twilight Princess I believe combined if you combine the sales for Gamecube and Wii it is the best selling Zelda game of all time yeah but there were there were a lot of fans that didn't like it yeah the people there's people who don't like Ocarina of Time like me like you like it doesn't like people not liking something we're in the age of the internet the vast majority of people that played Twilight Princess love Twilight Princess like it was very well worded I remember at the time the hype building up to it the release and how excited most fans that I saw on social media things were there were always critics but they were like a vast minority that just went shut up and you could tell about the user reviews on game critic at the time and like users were rating this game super high plus all the media outlets were giving it like four to fives five out of fives so it I think that what confused me about Twilight Princess is it was so successful sales wise that I think they didn't know what to do with art style after that because as I said the Wii just it was basically a Gamecube I mean it was it was technically more powerful but it was in all comparison you could look at Gamecube games like a Wii games show them side by side ask people which console they're on and unless they played the games and knew they might not be able to tell you you know because sometimes you'd see control prompts on the screen but like if they had no background for the system they just looked at them you know look at the visuals tell me what game is this from or what system was it on that they might not even know so yeah I think I think art style is important is more important I think to the fans than I really think that it is important to the intent I I think it works with the theme of the Zelda series because like we talked about this I think last podcast two podcasts ago whatever it was how each Zelda game oh this was about the rebooting the Zelda series how each Zelda game is basically a reboot it's always it's almost always different the same premise same tropes but it's different characters or different Zelda different link and so the art style kind of reflects that the fact that each game is different in some way than the other aside from like you know direct sequels like you know Phantom Hourglass or Majora's Mask like aside from those few exceptions most of the games reflect the fact that each game is different and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing um and I honestly don't think we've had okay I'm ignoring the cdi games because you're gonna bring that up I don't think that there's been a bad-looking Zelda game a legend of Zelda game I just think that each people people expect one thing and then they get another thing and while they don't think that they want it they do or if they like it because I you know I didn't have any expectations going into Wind Waker when I first got it I only knew that it looked different and it didn't look like the Zelda games that I was familiar with but it was great it's one of my favorite Zelda games and so you kind of have to go into it with that mindset of you know each Zelda game is different they're all going to have this different thing that sets them apart from each other um like you know the art styles for one of the controls or whatever um but that kind of is reflective of the series you know how we have different different art styles different characters um and so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing I don't think it's I pardon me agrees that it's very very important the other parts like eh you know it's it's not that important because you know there are still some games that are good and they don't have like the best graphics for you know whatever console they're on um yeah I don't think that's a problem when I think it's weird for me because art styles uh matter to so many people and there hasn't really been an art style for Zelda that they've come out with that I didn't end up enjoying and end up loving and I think a lot of that's just because the gameplay is so great so fantastic um that the art style just works like in Wind Waker it the art style feels right when Link is flying around in the air with his counters like the art style just feels like it belongs because that's not something that you that would maybe look as good um if it was saying like a Twilight Princess type art style um because in Twilight Princess art style you do have some like finishing blows and stuff where you move but it's not nearly as whimsical feeling um so yeah I don't know to me it's always been gameplay first that I mean that is how the games are made art style matters I think if they had a more consistent art style the series actually might sell more game to game I I think art style greatly impacts yeah yeah that's okay it's okay to disagree I I I'd say that like if like if they had stuck with Twilight let's say that the art style for this game was the Wii U tech demo I think it would be even more hyped for it yeah but that was still slightly different than Twilight Princess it was slightly but it looked like a natural progression yeah I mean I don't think that's necessarily like if that's even possible on the Wii U I don't I don't rumors that it might not be able even like the tech demo they said might not even be able to run on the retail Wii U I don't I don't think someone was examining they were saying it was running on on some dev unit that had a more powerful processor or something that wouldn't surprise me at all I just don't think that necessarily people look at games like that okay I don't think people necessarily look at Nintendo games like that they might look at games like um you know Uncharted or uh Assassin's Creed well the thing is this is the one series Nintendo has that appeals to those fans Zelda crosses boundaries like a lot of Nintendo games I would agree with you on that for like Zelda is one of those games that just it if you like adventure games action adventure games you will like Zelda if it looks if it's in a style that's appealing to you well I I think that people associate Nintendo okay this may not be the best thing to say now but people people associate Nintendo with a quality game um generally that's true uh hey Reggie Reggie fees have a just said hey I know that we use life cycles coming to an end but uh we do have the highest reviewed games no they have good quality games and I don't think people look at despite the art style for a Zelda game and they're like oh I don't know if that's going to be good because they have the same type of reputation as uh you know Naughty Dog or other companies that have like these long not long I don't know any other game company that has a series running as long as the Legend of Zelda or Mario or something but they're generally they're generally well received despite whatever you know graphics they may have or may not have or art style um and so I don't think that necessarily determines the game for some people I think it might turn people off initially but you know there's initial initial impressions can be everything that's true it is everything like Yoshi's Woolly World some people look at that and they're like oh Jarn you know and then they're like I'm not gonna do it like I like the old like you know style of like Yoshi's Island and you know I don't like this new one I think some people they do judge depending on you know if they see it but Zelda's a little different like you said because they're they feel it's so invested into it I think I think they react that way especially if it's a franchise that has pre-built expectations like Yoshi is kind of always looked a certain way that's true Kirby always looked a certain way and now they look completely different and people don't like that but Zelda's always kind of look different which in response to Epic Yarn's Bad Sales they have made like two really good Kirby games since um I mean Epic Yarn was a really good Kirby game it deserves way more recognition than it got well I know some people are like oh but you can't die I'm like just play the game just just play it get past the first few stages the game is magical the music in that game is oh my gosh yes it's um all right so honestly we spilled over a little bit to the next segment that's okay because we only have one person with fan topics and it's a person from last week uh so Jose Bentacourt from our Facebook page asked a little four question thing I think they all kind of follow each other pretty well so the first one he asked this is a good one since we have the hype man himself after a breath of the wild how do we speculate what is in store for the series okay so all right go for it oh no no no what were you gonna say what were you gonna say no no no I already lost my train of thought as soon as you said okay all right so um as as everything with Zelda games and this even this even is in uh prevalent with breath of the wild and going off of a game like skyward sword okay uh we can use all so much stuff especially since breath of the wild is going to be such a huge game I'm pretty sure there's I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot of lore connecting past Zelda games and potentially future Zelda games in the um in the chronology as we can see here for some weird reason there is a like a trend going on with the fascination of the guy's high layer that was introduced in skyward sword you know uh we thought that uh she was going to be a one-time deal you know one and done because at the end of the game spoilers she does become zelda and that was the first ever game in the chronology yet we have like Hyrule that was already built up and then torn down and high layer it seems to be a big deal once again in breath of the wild and uh that's one thing that we can use uh in breath of the wild looking towards future Zelda games you know we can uh learn certain things what is uh calamity Ganon how he became calamity Ganon why was he locked away in the castle Sheikah Sheikah Sheikah for crying out loud we're gonna learn more about the Sheikah finally this race or I should say this clan in the series has been they've been the personification of the men behind or not even men but like you know like people behind the curtain they've been behind the scenes in every single Zelda game you know helping the royal family uh helping aiding the fight against evil yet we hardly know anything about them other than they serve the gods and now the gods has become zelda and now they serve the royal family because of that that's all we know we always know they're on the brink of extinction in almost every game they've been in we know that um they're loyal to the royal family and now we have Sheikah monks this is the most there's the most amount of Sheikahs I've seen in this in a zelda game and the game hasn't even come out yet you know there are so many things we can use to theorize in the future of zelda uh story wise gameplay wise same deal you know um combat and everything has been evolving up until zelda uh up until each uh zelda game uh that would come after every zelda game I'm kind of like repeating myself but you know it's that it's that's such a good question and this is I feel that this is a good answer because there are so many things we can go off of when a theorize what could be in the future of zelda in terms of story in terms of gameplay and um in terms of a character development and uh their past and percentage of their their future up until scoured sword we always knew zelda was kind of special you know she's the princess of high rule she has magical abilities uh wielded the triforce of wisdom but up until scoured sword we really didn't know why she was so damn special now we know she's the reincarnation of a goddess that's crazy and now it's the same shit with gandorf you know why is this man in particular always coming back why is he always coming back and you know starting shit in high rule now we know why he is a incarnation of dominoes hatred that will always follow uh zelda and link to the ends of the earth which is sad but uh it's something that uh we know and we discover uh we can discover so many secrets of the past of past zelda games and uh from little like you know secrets and tidbits that we learn in Breath of the Wild we can use that and expect and theorize on what we can get in future zelda games same thing as we dealt with skyward sword we are getting a lot of things yelling back from skyward sword and breath of the wild and that's nuts and not only breath of the wild we're getting things from uh ocarina of time days we're getting things from taller princess days we're getting uh things from you know people are theorizing hey this could be a high rule after the water receded things from windbreaker days you know there are so many things we can go off of into the future of zelda and this is just you know scratching the surface the game is not even out for crying out loud and we and yet this is all we you know we were able to gather this much imagine when the game comes out so yes there's a lot of ways we can go into the future of zelda games theorizing and that's that's my answer are you not irritated um yeah you you said a lot that's good um i knew you'd be perfect i i i saved this question for you um thank you so there uh there's a couple things that i kind of look at when i i look at the future of the series because the the producers and the creator of the series i've kind of talked about this um like miyavoto said something about a game um like he talked to idja no more about a game involving chic um and that might be like more of a spin-off game because it sounds like uh they've confirmed that link's always going to be the start of the main games so they could do like a side game showing the seven years and not going to have time oh my gosh which that would be fantastic and that's that's something that he wouldn't talk about like the a thief themed game yeah that yeah that was a new ip i know but what if i yeah the new ip is chic oh it's not gonna be that what if it is though it's not gonna be that it technically wouldn't be a new ip that's yeah that would be it'd be a spin-off game that's not a new ip what if they let's open like the keyword like new ip like it means it can't be related to zelda because that's not a new ip um people want it to be but like idja no more said for years now he's been wanting to do something besides zelda so i don't know anyway so well we talked about that in a prior podcast maybe we'll get back to the future if we ever figure out what this game is that he may or may not be working on uh with this may or may not be finalized thief idea um another thing that idja no more brought up is that uh he could see himself making another game like breath of the wild in the future at least one more game like it so it kind of something to me when he said that that they have ideas already in store for what the next big zelda game is going to be and if it's going to take place you know it could even be uh like a sequel to breath of the wild um you know something that takes place after like breath of the wild sets the stage and everything kind of ends with calamity again and maybe at the game but there's still so much like it gives bring up all these possibilities for branching off and story elements um it can be really easy for them to follow that up with another game um and re even reuse the engine kind of go majora's mass style there um or triforce hero style whatever whatever whichever way you want to go with it uh reusing assets and you know coming up with another big you know open world game that doesn't take five six years to develop um and i think in many fans on minds they would love that um a game that is built on the same engine as breath of the wild the same visuals uh maybe completely enhanced because it's on nx you know maybe they find new ways to make the engine even better but then it only takes two to three years and they get it out and it's a sequel and everyone's happy um well most people but maybe he said he said that that that they he would prefer he would like to make one more game like it doesn't mean that game's going to come right away um and like if nx is uh what the rumors claim it is you know primarily a handheld device that also works with your tv you know chances are that the next other game might be like another top down one or something to that nature that's more uh for taking on the go um but also looks obviously fantastic on your tv so yeah there's a lot there's a lot of ways you could speculate for the future of the series um obviously we'll be able to speculate even more once we get the play breath of the wild um thank you so much for that uh we're gonna we're gonna keep answering your fan questions because i don't want to have your fan questions leak into next week as well so what we'll cut our last segment a little short uh so hosea mentocourt also asked um if it would spawn extra expansions and how will the new system change gaming for other nintendo games uh so we kind of covered the idea of like side games you know like the sheet game uh do you guys have any thoughts on how breath of the wild could impact other franchises i can see nintendo this is my hope this is my dream i know that it there's like a slim chance of it actually happening but from what it sounds like from breath of the wild they're going for a more story focused game um which you don't see a lot from nintendo at least like you know the main series nintendo like mario there's no there's really no story like bows are kidnapped the princess and then you go savor sometimes there's other things involved there's there's not a lot of like continuity or story there um but i can see nintendo maybe either making a new ip with story in it or just coming up with new ways to breathe for okay pardon the pun but breathe new life into other games because the breath of the wild but like my my hope is that they take what they've learned from breath of the wild you know a big expansive game um new mechanics to try something new um to go with a more story focused game because you know honestly that's what's really popular these days even some of the side scrollers that are coming out have have a story to them like a um a big story like i think is limbo is a side scroller right you'd consider that a side scroll yeah that's got a story to it um and so not that nintendo is getting left behind because they are still their own company that you know still produces you know triple a quality games um but but i'd like to see them take the idea from this of adding story to their games and flush them out a bit as opposed to oh well we don't need story because this game is good it's got good gameplay it's like okay but we can make that in many ways in many ways i hope that's what they have retro studios working on a new ip like just like a new ip yeah i mean a lot of people have been wanting them to do one forever but like a new ip that is more western in that it focuses heavily on story because i don't think we're ever gonna get that kind of ip out of nintendo ead i think you're you're gonna get you know more games like splatoon which are fantastic by the way was monolith soft uh nintendo ead was it like an offshoot uh it's an offshoot it's a different company that nintendo bought majority staking so like it's like a they call it a second party yeah but yeah so because that game has it's not the best story but it's very story focused a very character yeah very story focused yeah that was why i mean and it's an rpg a japanese yeah but it has it has a lot of western influences in it that particular game yes the prior game doesn't know it doesn't but it's you know by chronicles x for the we you and it i think they said they weren't going to make the next one western focused they were gonna go back to japanese but it was so good all right well that that's it they keep going back and forth i like you just combine it all into one yeah make a just not japanese j u s a rpg if nintendo can invent if nintendo can change open world open air you can invent your own your own rpg genre it's okay um so just to make sure we get to his other questions uh hosea bendocourt also wants to know um what our thoughts are on if there was a poke uh like a pokemon game as massive as breath of the wild like if that ever happened pokemon go that's probably more like the biggest open world game ever i really want a pokemon ammo oh a lot of people do we'd never leave the house we'd undo everything niantic just did it no it i think how they can make it work is pokemon is so unique they could actually make it especially if they're working on some unified os thing um that they could actually make it where you there is a game you play it you go you go battle but like you can actually combine it with pokemon go and go out in the world and catch pokemon to bring them into your game um and that maybe that's how you catch pokemon you're living in a utopia you have to go out in the world to get your pokemon but then you bring them into the game and that's where you could like battle your trainers um go in all the tournament modes um and there could still be an expansive world in that game uh that you know maybe you do catch some pokemon in there like maybe um like you know you go outside to get the original 151 but you could play the game to get the other 600 or whatever uh like there's a way that they can split it up because they already do that with pokemon games right if you want all the pokemon you got to buy both games or know someone who has the other game or cheat they have that trade system now so i i guess you maybe you don't even have to know anyone anymore than online trade system yeah the wonder trade thing yeah uh so i guess maybe maybe it's not as complicated as it used to be when i was growing up uh but the idea is that like so you have to have at least two people with it with the both versions of the game to be able to to kind of collect them all as they say um and i think if they were to do an mmo they could still do the niantic outdoor thing and combine it with the indoor mmo experience i think pokemon is like that one unique franchise you could actually pull that off with but i i don't know if they're confident and it builds out the pokemon go phenomenon if for some reason it still matters but um um i don't know a lot of people are upset right now with the recent update it's it's okay and it's the fence the game really wasn't great to start off with sure it wasn't like oh my gosh this is the epitome of video games i think what i i think what i dislike about the game like i i think in terms of just being like a collector all capture gems be on your little teams i think that's cool i think that alone is fine as an application what makes me mad is that pokemon has always been about going out in the world exploring um capturing pokemon battling and training and i know that they're supposed to add battling and training in the future that's great um but like what upsets me is i live you know out by a lake a little bit outside of town there's hardly any pokemon out here but if i go downtown there's a ton of pokemon that doesn't make sense to me pokemon live in the wild so if i'm out in the wild i should be finding pokemon but i'm not i find them when i go to places where people live that's not how pokemon works it's it's based around the ingress engine so it's it's gonna do yeah i know but i know but like that's something i wish they would improve they'd be like look if you have cell signal and you're out in the middle of a field you should be finding pokemon that are in fields you should not find field pokemon in the middle of downtown where there's not even a tree like it doesn't make it just it confuses me um it's just you can only get a lol of pokemon if you go to hawai that's the thing that upsets me about pokemon go otherwise i don't really care that like they made it so like the tracking i guess is harder now or something and they broke a bunch of third party apps like i don't really care about that stuff i think it all makes sense but that's that's for another time another place um yeah so as hok originally brought up a pokemon mmo needs to happen i don't even care if it connects to the pokemon go but like just it needs to happen i've been wanting it since i was a kid they already fulfilled my catching pokemon in real life so now i want my pokemon mmo what i can go to hmk's gym online and kick his ass oh yo you want some of this my team's gonna be better dude you can't handle this you can't handle that's cuz you're gonna use hacks i'm not gonna use no man what do i look like one of those people who are playing from blizzard was all like hey man i'm using the aim bots get banned i was in the battlegrounds you're using a bot um oh wow i i still play once in a while it's okay it's okay i know you can cry it's the game that just every time a new expansion back comes out just sucks me back in um all right so here's the last uh the last question he said uh or last topic i'll call this one a topic not really a question what do we think really uh the potential of a future zelda game in virtual reality could it be fun no no i couldn't picture that happen i think until virtual reality we've we've talked about it briefly before i don't think virtual reality is ready and when i say ready i you know there i'm mostly talking about the requirements to play it not the hardware the space you need um a lot of people just don't have that kind of space in their home um especially to play uninterrupted and i think like you know you have a wire running from your headset and stuff like it just doesn't work well i know like there's phone options like samsung has got the little thing um that's not the same that that's not rude like to me that's not real virtual reality i've tried it it's not even close to as good as like ocular survival the problem is that i don't think there's a single game out there right now that proves why virtual reality creates a better game there are demos that show a lot of promise but i've watched i don't know probably at least 150 different vr games because i want to love vr like the whole idea of virtual reality just it's there i love it but like i watch all these demos and they look awesome but they're overpriced they're not very long and they're not complete and it doesn't sound like they'll ever be complete because their idea is just for you to play it for a little bit get that oh that's cool feeling and sell you on that um it's kind of like what the we did to be honest um gave you that oh that that's cool i saw my thing and my guy on the screen swung his racket like that's cool um and then you kind of get bored of it and you get past it and i kind of think that's what's going to happen with all these virtual reality games i don't think i could be wrong i have not personally seen a vr game that looks complete and tells me that i need to own vr to play this amazing game but that's just me obviously i'm wearing a virtual reality headset as i'm watching people play this but like yeah i just i watch these videos i'm like i yeah they look cool i've used vr headsets i think these demos are cool they're really short they're like 40 bucks a piece that's not attractive to me and i've seen the zelda games in vr like zelda one in vr i can do time in vr like those look cool but it doesn't you know i need to see someone take like a full triple a game and build it around the concept of vr before i could really believe that zelda could work and be fun in vr see what i and i totally agree what i could see the proof for that game being is ibe ibeam japan is doing that whole um sort out online like sure a standalone experience thing hopefully based on how that does they decide to take it further because it'd be freaking awesome but seeing something like that and seeing if that actually does well if it's actually good because that's that would be a legitimate mmo rpg adventure game in virtual reality which would be really cool sure um that's what you know that i think would be what it should virtual reality be more than just a short-lived gimmick i could see it moving towards something like that whether or not it will the coolest thing about virtual reality from what i have seen so far and experienced is watching movies it is amazing watching movies in vr it's almost better than going to a movie theater it is awesome i don't know that's but i don't know i agree with nade on that because it's like if you get the right like software for it it's like you're actually in the movie theater and you can look around no one's around you you can look up at the screen you know you could pan left pan right i don't know i'm you can actually create the um you know like the imax theater how like the screen's all around you you could do that in vr can you do that right now on steam with hardcore henry because i know i know they released it on steam and i know this vr i think it's vr compatible yeah maybe i don't i don't have a vr headset here to test that but um yeah that i mean it's entirely possible so like i just i don't know i mean the thing is is i want to love vr i don't love it right now um a lot of people that have vr units um that have played hundreds of games on them spent all the money on it because you know they have an audience that cares about what they think about these games um are not impressed uh they think there's a lot of cool ideas zero complete games and that's what's really weird about these platform launches imagine that the nx launches and all it is is a bunch of game demos and they want 40 bucks per demo like that does not sound like something that people want right and that's basically what vr is doing right now it's we're releasing these super expensive platforms that if you want the best of it you need a whole bunch of space you got to inconvenience yourself it's probably like a thousand bucks bare minimum for you to even get in on the ground floor with decent vr and we're not we don't even have full games to give you we just have ideas that cost a lot of money oh boy um it's that's why i'm scared for vr i i think i think it's great i don't think it's ready i think it's being rushed to market before the software is there well in nintendo's wise to wait for proof of vr to work before they even before they dive in yeah like because they like nintendo's played vr they just well they've said themselves they don't think it's ready that that uh the virtual boy i don't that's the have you have you ever uh used the virtual record it is not virtual reality at all oh man i mean maybe no you know what no even back then they had better virtual reality than that yeah um that that was not uh i i appreciate that they thought it would you know that they were exploring virtual reality but man i don't know who it nintendo saw that and like yeah we just gotta rush that this is right it's gonna be a big seller um anyways uh so we're gonna just quickly we'll spend about five minutes here just talking about our favorite things that happened in video games this last week uh for hrk who doesn't who probably doesn't know uh this could be like a favorite gaming play it it could be a favorite piece of news it could be about anything not just zelda anything gaming um let's start with tray since a little little tray over there silent today um i've been playing i mean this is news not really i've been playing overwatch again they just updated it where it's the rio it's the rio pack i know right what they just updated it with the rio pack so you could play with uh the different like well the rio games the new olympic games so uh they have like different like costumes and emotes and stuff so they had a zika virus oh boy oh man oh um but you know i'm just trying to like get in play get loot boxes and get all the rare stuff before it goes away i think at the end of the month so i've been playing and i still have not turned overwatch on since the last time i played it with alfred play it this month man rio stuff i just i know once i play that's all i'm gonna do that day yeah it's too addicting it's too i wish i had more time uh let's go with alfred what's your favorite thing from the past week um so i've been playing sieve five and i've never played a sieve game before but zeki he got it for the uh humble bundle and gave it to me and i i can't stop playing nate i'm addicted that is a very good sieve game to start it's it's bad i like i was i've i drove we drove to san antonio today for family vacation and i was driving i was supposed to be driving and i did but i was up till about four in the morning playing sieve five i could not stop i was at war with gondi i was destroying india it was perfect and i that's all the sieve games work sieve games i think my average game of sieve in any of them probably takes anywhere between 15 to 30 hours yeah it's it's time consuming but that's the way the game is like it's designed that way yeah but and it's very good at it like even though like sometimes it feels like oh i'm just rushing through turns i still don't feel bored like it sieve five um to me in my opinion is the best sieve game we've ever released it's the best sieve game i've ever played because i've only played one so yeah like that's that's cool i'm glad you're a newfound sieve fan maybe you'll uh pick up six when that comes out yeah but in terms of like game news two things that happened this week i still have yet to play uh the batman telltale series but that came out today yes i haven't played that um and i'm probably going to get that tonight after we get off the podcast um nice and i don't want to keep play too or talk too long about this but the new sun and moon trailer that was released which one the one that uh with the z4 the us one with the ice ball picks yeah the ice okay yeah that sure that looks kind of cool and it i don't know because they talked about different islands and stuff so i wonder if that that's going to replace gyms um as the league and i think that that'd be really cool and maybe they're changing because they talked about changing up the conventions of pokemon somehow so if that's what they do and if it's completely not completely different but if that's how they go about it then i you know more power to them and i am psyched for sun and moon nice uh h m k uh i was going to say the the sun and moon thing because that thing got me really hyped uh because i was talking to my friends about it how um everyone there was a there was a apparently a lot of the stuff that happened in the trailer got leaked and everyone read it everyone on four time we're shitting on these people who are leaking this stuff and then now that it's true everyone's like oh my god like nothing is safe nothing is real what is pokemon because i mean the the notion of existing pokemon to have different types you know that's something they played around with delta pokemon you know um in the card games where like pokemon that we know are different types like you it's like a like a pikachu would be a psychic type or something like that um now these alola forms are basically that you know these existing pokemon's in different forms in different uh types you know and ice vol picks a dragon type executor what i mean what is that so now um now that we have this and now that we have a certain trainer got revealed during the trailer which kind of confirms a leak that was shown off a couple of weeks ago which um the final evolutions of the three stars got leaked because uh in their console part uh the character art of what we saw in the trailer was there so everyone's like okay now the leak is real so now everyone's going all over the place and now it's like what what can we expect in pokemon now we don't know everything's on the table we have these like dragon ball zz moves and stuff uh we have these pokemon there are different types uh me and my homeboys were talking about crystal onyx could be an alola pokemon um from the anime the pink butterfree could be an alola form pokemon like like everything is there and nintendo has not slept on the anime because a lot of things are from the anime are now in the games and you know it's just the the level of possibility in a pokemon game was blown wide open with this trailer and i love it so that's nice um pokemon obviously is and well not obviously for me i i haven't been a big pokemon fan for a long time uh loved red love blue love yellow love golden silver after that i kind of fell away um i didn't like a lot of things that were doing with the series and i honestly i've tried pokemon game sense i think i own pokemon x did own it sold it because i didn't really like it um and somehow uh watching these trailers reading the press release i'm into it again something about what they're doing is making pokemon feel fresh a lot and i i mean i don't know i don't know if i'm gonna end up liking the end product i said i have not liked pokemon games in a while uh you know i hate the fact that there's like 800 different pokemon i i've always hated it i thought they ran out of original ideas like three generations ago but it's it's it's entertaining enough um to me now that it's piqued my interest and unfortunately because i have lots of fine memories of pokemon when i was a kid if it if a pokemon game piques my interest i'm gonna end up buying a day one even if i end up so far i've done that for like three different other generations and i regretted it and sold it the same week um but i have hope this one actually brings me legit hope because it looks like it's not just a bunch of fancy new graphics and new pokemon it's trying to actually take pokemon what it is fundamentally almost like breath of the wilds doing for zelda and just kind of turn it on its head and try and a whole bunch of new ideas and i think that pokemon has been needing to do this forever um and i think a large reason i got bored of it is just it felt like i was just playing the same game i've already played when i was 12 um yeah there's more mechanics and more of this and that but it's basically the same game except now they don't tell me i got to catch them all and that was always my funnest part of the game oh beating the elite four of course i'm gonna kick their butt but anyways um but since everyone else talking about pokemon i'm just gonna say my favorite thing that's happening video games this week is actually today uh today i launched my new initiative my new project something i've talked about in the podcast a couple times before nintendoprime.com if you if you're visiting it right now and it's offline i apologize i bought really really crappy server like a really cheap server for it because i don't have a lot of money and um the today when we're recording this when we launched uh literally an hour after we launched the entire site went down from traffic um so thank you for coming to my new project and um enjoying the news and the original editorials and stuff that i have going on there uh all about nintendo so i could actually talk about more than just zelda somewhere yay um but yeah i'm sorry uh i do have a new server i am working on a transfer i've been working on it all day today uh probably going to tonight as i'm editing the podcast uh so hopefully by the time you watch the podcast it's on a new server and you're never gonna experience these problems but yeah uh nintendo prime like if you guys want to go check it out go for it it covers nintendo news it's got editorials we're gonna have a total prime podcast on the line uh i do cover our zelda informer podcast there as well uh just because uh the zelda former podcast is actually not part of my quote unquote job at uh zelda informer it's something i do because i want to do it um and i'm sure that's the same reason you guys are all here with me on the podcast is because you want to be here you enjoy talking about zelda passionately talking about zelda we all know hmk does oh yeah from his channel on zelda and kingdom hearts to uh to the many times i hear your voice on everyone else's theory video what well you never cameo in other videos never right never uh so anyways that that's all i'm gonna say about that uh go check it out uh there's a patreon for it patreon.com slash nintendo prime if you're interested i really don't care if you come support it just hey it's something i did if it sucks tell me it sucks i'm cool with that um so that's gonna do it for this week's podcast uh i want to thank our special guest hmk for joining us no problem thank you so much for having me took a few weeks but uh hopefully if we have you out again it doesn't take another few weeks no trust me trust me you know it was just a very it was a string of unfortunate events like the tuesday oh so is that going to be a new a new movie yes a string of unfortunate events um and obviously uh thank my my co-host who hopefully will be here until we no longer have a podcast which will probably when i die that's a sad day well when zelda dies i will be in charge of the podcast zelda series don't die before me like live on so my children's children's children can play um and obviously trey our magnificent comic artist to credit to him he created the logo for nintendo prime thanks big time for that no problem no problem it was fun making it yeah yeah yeah i loved how it turned out all right well thank you listeners thank you everyone you guys have a great week and a great week adios later days