Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ Interview Show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded Indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. Hi, everybody. I'd like to introduce Michelle T., who's 52, and a Massachusetts to San Francisco to Los Angeles Transplant, and the literary lion who pioneered, among many other cultural lightning rods, the notorious Dray Queen story hour, which we are all really grateful for and has had a lot of pushback, as we all know, in the last few years. The self-described queer feminist punk and working class poet burst onto the San Francisco scene in the 1990s. She co-founded the Feminist Collective Sister Spit, hosting queer open mic nights around the city and later homespun tours of spoken word artists in bars, galleries, bookstores and living rooms around the world. In 2012, Sister Spit spawned publishing imprint at City Lights, which T. ran until the feminist press invited her to helm her own imprint Amethyst auditions in 2015. T. left Amethyst four years later after months of mulling her options. She described and made a pitch to Ed, and is it pronounced Coltie, Ed Coltie, Edie L. Coltie. Yeah. And asked him to meet her at Found Coffee in Eagle Rock, where she told him she wanted to start a press dedicated to stylistic stories of unvarnished queer existence. Michelle T. will publish things that no one else would, and we appreciate it. Thank you. I just wanted to also tell the audience that we are both from Chelsea, Massachusetts. Yeah. Which is like, I mean, how unusual is that, right? It's very unusual. I really, I love it. I love it very much. I don't get to talk. Well, I mean, you know, I actually live with my mom, so I guess I talk every single day with someone who is from Chelsea, but it's really, it's really great to meet someone outside my family who's also from there. Yeah.  I was ahead of your mother in school. Yeah. And it seems like I'm related to one of your stepfathers, Nephews, Danny, and so growing up in Chelsea, as we both know, is a working class town or city. And so, and I think we both had pretty interesting experiences there. It is culturally, as you were saying, I think in another interview, was that, you know, you don't feel like you have many opportunities there. Yeah.  No, certainly not. My parents thought if I graduated high school, I was doing good. And so I didn't, but you know, to the chagrin I did later, but so how did, how did growing out there affect and shape your art, do you think? Well, there's certainly, it's certainly a town with a big atmosphere.  And I think it is because I came from there. I think it's really interesting that, you know, even, you know, for all of the problems that I had with Chelsea and the ways that I felt like unseen or unsupported or actively conspired against by the city, there is, you know, you can't help but bond on some level, I think, to the place that you're from.   What was interesting is, you know, my mom did have like hopes for me and my sister and wanted us to kind of do better than she did and did, you know, want us to go to college or there was like lip service paid to that. But then I think what happened was when we got to that age, when you start applying to colleges and looking at colleges, I think it was actually so overwhelming to my family, you know, even though it was like, yeah, you know, we want that for you in the abstract, right? Because that we see that as a way to get like a good life or a better life. But then there was actually no real understanding of how you apply to a school. It was so intimidating, the way that just to apply cost money, you know, it's like $50 an application, which was felt really significant in 1989. And so it ended up just being kind of a bust, you know, and I didn't really end up going to college. I mean, I went to Salem State for one semester, and then I went to UMass Boston for one semester.  And I found it also incredibly overwhelming and didn't understand how or where to get support. So I just kind of dropped out, especially at the age I was at, I had started, you know, reading in, I mean, I've always been a big reader, but I just started understanding myself maybe as a writer a little bit, and started thinking that maybe I could do the things that I dreamt of doing without going to school. So I kind of set off very vaguely and shakily on that path. And then you ended up in, did you go right to San Francisco from Chelsea?  And then that became clearly like a very bad thing to keep doing. And my really close friend who from East Boston, still one of my best friends, he had moved to San Francisco. And I really didn't know what to do. And when I realized how completely untenable this relationship was, I was in Tucson when it happened. And I was like, Oh, I can't stay here. It's a small town. I'm only here because of her. It's going to feel terrible to see her all the time. Can't go back to Boston like what's there, you know, like I don't know what is there for me. But you know, my friend, my close friend had moved to San Francisco. And I thought, well, I'll just go there and catch my breath and figure it out. And I ended up staying there for 25 years. Yeah. And you started a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff there. Yeah. One I know is Drake Queen Story Hour. And we had one here in Montpelio, Vermont. And, you know, they were demonstrators outside of the library. And it seems to be a thing these days of either writing terrible, horrible emails to the libraries or going there with guns and rifles to stop it. So but thank you for doing it. You know, I came up with the idea, which I'm proud of. It's like the best idea I ever had. But really, all the kudos and the gratitude go to these queens and these librarians who are actually putting their bodies and their livelihoods on the line every time they put a drag queen story hour together. You know, it's like, I know it's terrifying. It must be just so terrifying, so stressful. And they continue to do it and just believe in the power of queer joy and the way that queer joy translates to children and how life affirming it is and how inspiring and and world kind of widening it is.  And I just so appreciate them. And I so appreciate drag queen. So yeah.  And and can you tell us more about that? I think it was it was in your book. Is it black? Black waves? Yeah, when you talk about beauty and how your ideas of beauty have changed over the years, you know, like I think we're probably all raised to sort of be, you know, girly girls. Yeah, you know, that that that's the image. I was going to say Barbie, but you know, now Barbie's kind of all new. Now we can't hold anything against Barbie. So funny. Of course we can. But but yeah, yeah, I mean, sure. Yeah, there was, you know, like all kind of people raised in America, it was very gendered. And, and then that gender has always has a set of specific rules, which, you know, shift according to other culture cultures and class and stuff like that. But yeah, for sure. And, you know, as a femme person, I always really loved dressing up, you know, but like, I would get in trouble almost for dressing up too much, like I would get in trouble for like, refusing to take my confirmation dress off, right, because I just wanted to live in it or, you know, refusing to take my Easter outfit off and going and playing in the mud with it and getting in all the all kinds of trouble for that.  And then that just so you know, the messages were confusing, right, where it's like you were expected to be very feminine, but also almost not too feminine, you know, and that's why I think it's probably why I love Drag Queen so much is that they actually, they blast past that, that checkpoint of sort of appropriate femininity and they take it to a whole another level, which is, I feel like always where I was sort of headed when I was younger. And then, you know, growing once I once I became a teenager, I was super goth, which has a very specific beauty regimen, right, which is very unusual, especially in the 80s, you know, which was a heyday for goth, but also a heyday for goths being abused, you know, I would always get things thrown at me or people starting fights with me, you know, on the bus back to Chelsea or even walking through Boston. So, but I really love. And you were chased out of the schoolyard, right? For drinking and being goth. I was chased out. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was, I was definitely chased out of school at St. Rose and high school in Chelsea for being goth that really upset a lot of the girls I went to school with. And the teachers, of course, just thought it was, you know, it was me and a friend of mine. And they just basically thought it was our own fault for dressing so weird, like what did we expect, you know, so that was basically the landscape during that time period. But I thought I looked amazing.  And then, you know, I, when I had more of like a feminist awakening in my early 20s, I became really critical towards, you know, beauty and beauty standards and the beauty industry and all of those things, which are so super problematic. And my first response to that was kind of to become anti beauty, right, to just be against, you know, any, any kind of beauty standard. And I think that's a really common thing to do when you're kind of head explodes, and you sort of wake up to all of this conditioning and brainwashing that you've been a part of it.   And so I think from there, it was just a process of trying to get back to my own notion of beauty, which in, you know, in, in the meantime, just became because of the communities I was a part of, because of the reading that I did, just became really, really, really expansive so that the idea is more not to be anti beauty, but to value beauty and to be able to see the beauty in a much, much vaster array of people, places and things than the dominant culture would have you think, you know, yeah, yeah, the cultural idea of beauty is just so limiting on so many. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah, it's awful. It just doesn't even recognize huge, you know, parts of the population at all, you know, people that I find so beautiful. The difference is we even have in genetics or, you know, what's, you know, what's beautiful is just so varied, depending on the culture and the, you know, your race and, you know, all those kinds of things that are just really different. Yeah. I grew up in Chelsea during the hippie movement. Were there hippies in Chelsea? Did they get their asses kicked or what? There was me. I know that. I know. And a couple of friends and, you know, we left at 16 and moved to Boston. Oh, wow. So I kind of, you know, understand what you mean about, you know, there is the one thing I liked about Chelsea, and I don't know if you found this to be the same as least one I was growing up. It was very cultural, culturally diverse, which Boston did not have. I mean, Boston in the whole area is really racist. And I'm really kind of nice that I grew up at least around many, many different cultural groups, which I've been grateful for. I don't know if it was still that way when you were there, but it was pretty diverse as a city. It was really diverse. And I think it still is diverse in it because it's a landing spot for immigrants, right? So there. So yeah. And it's also like a low income city. So yeah, it was super, super diverse.  I heard a lot of racism from the white people around me, whether that was in school on the street, just like a presumption that if you were white, you thought this way too. And so people would sort of share their opinions or ideas.  It never really sat well with me, but it took me some time to be able to speak back to it. And then, you know, yeah, it's still, I don't know, like it's really, I feel like I am definitely, it's really funny. I was whenever I get in a conversation with somebody where I feel like we might be on opposite ends of the spectrum or something or have some sort of a disagreement. And it's about sort of social justice things. My whole body goes into such an internal panic. And I get so like fight or flight, and it's really from these times when I was younger, you know, and I just would be trying to convince like my grandfather to not say like the N word and why, you know, and nobody really took me seriously. And also interestingly, nobody really thought they were racist, which is very interesting, because let me tell you, like, the things that were being said were incredibly racist, but I think that, you know, it's just that it's like that white supremacist sort of we get to make jokes and we get to say what we want, but we're not ever going to really hurt anybody.  We never do that. Like I work with the black person and we're really friendly. And I think they're, you know, good at their job, but then you're still going to at home speak in this ugly way. So it, you know, it was really, it was really messed up. And there was a lot of stuff that really impacted me about growing up like that that still does, you know, I feel I still feel affected by it.  And there's so much about, I love that it has so many like cultures existing in it. And you can see that just walking through the city even today at like the different stores and restaurants that are there. Like, it's great. And I've gone on as an adult to live in a lot of places in different cities that feel like Chelsea, like in San Francisco, I lived in the mission. And it felt like Chelsea to me, you know, but better because, you know, people were trying to appreciate each other and get along with each other and value each other. So, so that was really, that was really cool. And I know that you are in recovery. Yeah. And so when did that happen?  Or, you know, what happened there? I mean, what kind of brought you to that point of discovery? To the point to get sober?  I didn't want to have to go into recovery because it seemed like then you were really fucked. You must really have a problem if you're doing that. So I was just trying to curtail things on my own and, you know, to really mixed results, really, really mixed results. I would get some time sober and then could never really get back again.  I was depressed. I was fighting with my partner at the time. You know, some, you know, light health problems when I was young. And it's interesting because, you know, people say that, like, oh, the consequences start building up.  So I was living a kind of, you know, my standards weren't that high. It wasn't like I had these high standards that I fell from. So it can be kind of weird to see like how your life is made worse because you're already living at the bottom in a certain way. But there's a level of despair that I hadn't had prior, you know, in my drinking and using that was accumulating and kind of snowballing. And then I had told a friend of mine who was a writing mentor to me, who I really just was in love with and so admired.  And then they had come to town and we met for coffee and they said, oh, how's it going, you know, with not drinking? And it was going very badly. I once again couldn't stop drinking. And part of that also is the madness with that was really disturbing to me that I would set out to not drink. And then I would really not be able to do it.   Yeah. If you're really an alcoholic quitting drinking, that's alcoholic thing to do, you know, so just go get another jug of wine and drink it by yourself and see how you feel in the morning. So I had told my friend, I just actually burst into tears after they asked me and I was like, I can't stop drinking. I don't know what's wrong with me. And they of course knew exactly what was wrong with me. And they were like, do you want to go to a meeting? And I said, yes, because I was desperate. And I love this person. I would go to the moon with this person if they had invited me. So, so they took me to my first meeting. And I just got it. I just was like, Oh, yeah, like, I know what all these people are talking about. Like this is what's wrong with them is what's wrong with me. And they seem like they've figured out a way to be happy and have a sense of humor. Their skin looks good. My skin looks so bad.   Like they put a spin on it that was very appealing to me and not the not the cynical spin of drink of, you know, other drunks who don't want to do that being like, Oh, it's a cult and they believe in God, you know, my friend was like, Oh, it's a totally anarchist organization. Like there's no leaders.  It's free. You know, they just and that's really what recovery is to me is like this, this miracle that like people get together and do such a huge offering of service to people who really need it who are really struggling. So, so yeah, thankfully, I'm really grateful that it it's stuck. And I kept going and I haven't had a drink in, you know, over 20 years. So yes. Yeah, thanks. And it, you know, in black way, you talk about it being hybrid writing or so. And the book is, if I recall, is sort of a story where it's you but it's not I mean, it's you, but this incidents around you are not necessarily true by felt that they were maybe emotionally true. Yes, totally emotionally true.   I so not yet. People try me though.   Yeah, no, it is, you know, I don't I don't know what people are looking. I don't know what anyone is looking to get when they come to one of my books. You know, I don't know when I come to a book, I don't know that I'm necessarily looking for anything in particular. I'm sort of open to what the book has to give me. But yeah, you know, Black Wave is really a weird project in real. It's my favorite thing I ever wrote. It's it started as I had been working on this total fiction sort of apocalyptic story storyline. And then sort of towards the beginning middle of it, I had a really massive breakup with someone I've been with for like seven or eight years. And after in the in the wake of that, I became completely obsessed with writing about our story, which had been very dramatic and tumultuous, and all this stuff was involved in moving here and moving there. And, you know, I got sober in that relationship, I had all my alcoholic bottoms in that relationship, I changed a lot. And I started writing, I felt free to write the story once we had broken up. But what happened was I was reading from it when it was in progress at a bookstore in New York, and my ex was there in the audience.  But he was in fact super upset that I was writing about him and about us and my take on the relationship.  But it felt bad. And, you know, after my reading, we both wound up at the same party, and had a big fight about it. And I was like crying at this party. And I'm like, Oh, my God, we've been broken up for like a year. And here we are at a party, and I'm crying in public again, like I need to sever this connection. Like it just felt like if I write this book about us, I'm continuing this connection that I don't want, like I don't want to be publicly connected to him. And certainly the book would have me being that. So I changed it. And, you know, I thought, well, gosh, what, what else is this book about besides this relationship? And it was about I found that it was about my addiction, you know, and it was about my relationship. But I found if I just kind of focused on myself and my addiction and then fictionalized it, brought in fiction to sort of patch up the places where I ripped the relationship out of the story. There were all these weird gaps.  And what if it doesn't have to be, you know, a straight memoir where I'm trying to get to some sort of truth, but I'm just playing in a way and making things up, but trying to get to those back to those emotional truths about my relationship, but through a completely fictional way. And, you know, I've always read interviews with fiction writers about how like, you know, by fictionalizing, they're able to get closer to a truth than if they had just told the story. And I'd never understood that until I worked on that book. And then I really got it. And, yeah, I really I'm happy that it worked. It was really, I wrote it just not knowing what the hell I was doing, but very grateful at the end that it came together. Well, it's great book. Thank you. And, and, you know, one of the other issues that you talk about and write about, I think is, is your struggle with infertility. Yeah. And how hard that was. And, you know, a lot of people, a lot of women go through that process. And, you know, from everything I've heard, it is really, really difficult. And now you have Atticus, right? Yes, I do. I have a son. How old is he now? He's nine. Nine. Yeah. And you went through the process through various relationships? Is that correct? Or? Well, I started trying to get pregnant when I was single. So yeah, I wasn't in a relationship. And I thought I would maybe not be in one anymore, because I was feeling pretty jaded. But then I met the person who is now my ex, but we were together for about seven years and had been married. And we met each other while I was in, while I was actively trying to get pregnant. I was having my friend, my sperm donor come to my house, you know, with my best friend and we were all working together to get this sperm from my kitchen to me where I was in my bedroom. It was a total group effort. And so that was happening when I met my ex spouse and I was just, you know, they just sort of got sort of swept into it and also wanted a child and, you know, it seemed like, like the right thing to do. So we moved forward together and they certainly brought a lot of resources to the whole thing because I, you know, they had health insurance. I didn't have health insurance. Never mind not having a partner. I didn't have health insurance, you know. And so they put me on their health insurance really early on. And together we were able to figure out that, you know, I wasn't ever going to get pregnant that way. Like my, I was in my 40s. And while that's certainly possible for lots of people in their 40s, it just wasn't going to be possible for me. I didn't have the, I had a below average amount of like healthy looking eggs for someone my age. So I was like, kind of like, okay, well, I guess never mind I'll go to Paris instead. And then the doctor realized that my partner also had an ovary and eggs and was 10 years younger than me. And so the doctor was like, bring that person in here. And so it worked out that we used my ex's egg, my sperm donor, my sperm donor friends spurned and then I carried the baby. Great story. Yeah. Yeah. It was quite. I was really surprised when I heard that if you're over 40 and wanting to have a baby or pregnant, they call it geriatric. Did you? Yes. Yeah. I was like, I was amazed by that term. And I think I heard it like a month ago. I'm like, what? Yeah. So much medical terminology is so offensive, right? Like so much of it is just so dehumanizing and so offensive. And yeah, my sister, my sister had told me that her doctor had told her getting pregnant and trying to be a model of the only places where you're seen at that age as being geriatric. Unbelievable. Yeah. I don't know how they come up with these terms, but anyway. So let's talk about your new project. Sure. dopamine press. Yeah.  And I thought, I'm so lost, right? Is that how you mother? Mother. Yeah. There was a magazine, right? It's an online magazine that I started. And yeah, I wanted something that did talk about motherhood, but not the whole motherhood has already been so branded by our culture. Like we think of certain things and I was like, how can we break out of that?  And it's not. And I'm not involved in it anymore, but you know, the women who have taken it, who took it over are fantastic and it's a great site. If you're looking for anything about alternative parenting, really from conception or attempts to conceive all the way to having adult children, there's so many great personal stories on that site. Okay, folks out there. That site, M-U-T-H-A, correct? Yeah, yes. Yeah, Mother Magazine.  And so then you decide, I guess, that in addition to all the other stuff that you do, that you're going to start a press and you're going to call dopamine drug, correct? Yeah, yep. Dopamine is like the the pleasure chemical that we get. It's what it's what addicts really love, you know, you get dope. It's why we're addicted to our phones and you know, it's like, yeah, it's like why we get addicted to love and good all the good feelings, the good happy feelings is dopamine, right? Food, sex, you know. Gambling. Gambling. Gambling, yes, perfect example. Lots of dopamine and gambling.  So tell us, tell us about this project and how did you happen to start it? And I guess additionally, how did you raise funds for this? Or is this like sort of a bootstrap project? Very bootstrappy, but we did raise funds and we'll continue to have to raise funds. So, you know, it started I have always wanted to have to publish books always, always. And when I was in my 30s, I was I was living in San Francisco and I was running a literary nonprofit called Radar Productions.  She's kind of a genius.  She's very much a counselor to artists who are trying to figure out how to live in a capitalist world and have their art or how to care about the world so passionately and still feel like your art is worthwhile to make. You know, she's really, she does incredible work. But you know, at this point, she was the managing director of my nonprofit. I was the creative director. And I had to leave it when I moved to LA because most of our funding was San Francisco based, but I really missed doing literary organizing. And so I contacted her and I was like, do you want to do another nonprofit? And she said yes, which I couldn't believe. I would never have done it without her. And I was like, you know, this time I think I want to publish books. I'm having this something has happened to me since I hit my 50s where I'm having a real now or never moment with a lot of things where I'm like, oh, this is something that I've always had over here that I'm like, someday I think I'll do something like that.  So I was like, yeah, let's publish books. And what I found was that, it went from a nonprofit that maybe published a couple of books to a press, a nonprofit press. It's like, that's what we're doing. We are publishing books. So, yeah, I mean, Beth handles a lot of the administrative and bureaucratic things that are harder for me. She helped get us nonprofit status. We did that. And then as far as the funding, I feel so fortunate.  We just were on the same page and they happened to have inherited a lot of money. And they don't even understand the circumstances and how they did it. But maybe it was a little fraught is the feeling that I get. I don't know. But they are looking to be a philanthropist and they want to donate money to things that they really believe in. And I'm so grateful that instead of wanting to donate it to like, I don't know, some big human rights campaign funds. You know what I mean? Like these big organizations that this person wanted to give it to a small organization like us that had this vision to put more queer books and we ordered queer books out into the world. So with that, that really helped us get our feet on the ground hugely. And since then, we had a big fundraiser that brought us some money. We made some merchandise that you can get on our website. Dopamine Books LA, I think, is our website. People can totally donate. There's a PayPal you can donate. You can also purchase our merchandise. We have a zine that's really beautiful and perfectly kind of perfectly bound. We have a really beautiful broadside from one of our writers. And we have a little pin that we just put up there. So yeah. And then recently, I just taught a four week workshop called Writing for Witches. And it was sort of a combo of magic, meditation, tarot, and also writing and all of the proceeds from that I donated to Dopamine. So we're just trying to be really creative about the ways that we bring in money. We certainly, you know, we're nonprofits, so we are tax deductible, but we come from a corner of the world, but we don't know a lot of people who have a lot of money, you know? So it's really, you know, it's like, you know, one of these things when we're sitting here like, who can we maybe see? Who could maybe make a donation? And it's like, we don't know a ton of people who could maybe make a donation that's big enough to make a difference for us. So yeah, I'm really grateful to the person who did help us out. And yeah, we'll certainly be doing more benefits and really trying to be creative in ways to bring in money for the press. And also, once our books are in the world, hopefully, you know, we'll be making a little profit from that that will also sustain us. Once a year, I'm doing an anthology every year and all the proceeds from the anthology go right to the press. So hopefully that will help too. Yeah. And when you grow up not having money or, you know, you go through most of your life not having money, you get pretty inventive, I think.  Because it's like, I'm so grateful. I mean, most everything I've done, I wouldn't have been able to done without a community with community support. So I'm really grateful. But I know that it can also feel really draining to the community or they can get tired of you popping up and sort of asking, you know, for their dollars again and again. So for anybody listening out there or in general, how do you solicit for me and use groups? Gosh, well, once the word got out, I was immediately inundated with manuscripts, so much so that at the moment, we're we're our slate is full to 2028. So I'm really hesitant to tell anybody to send us anything right now, because the soonest I could publish anything would be 2028. And I still have a couple of manuscripts in my, in my inbox that from people that are like, that might be fine 2028 might be fine. I'm like, Oh, my God, are we going to be am I going to be slated through 2029 soon? It's, you know, will the earth be there? It just seems so impossible. But yeah, you know, the books that we have coming out this year came about in a super interesting way. We have our first anthology that I edited, which is called sluts. And that's going to be super fun. We have events going on for that this spring and summer, we have one in Boston and one in Provincetown in August. So but then the first book by, you know, by a single author, a friend of mine, Clement Goldberg, is a filmmaker who I've collaborated with. And they have written in this incredible TV pilot that they wanted to get made into a TV show. And it should be made into a TV show because it would be fantastic. But it is so hard to get anything made into a TV show as you might imagine, right? And so I was really inspired reading their pilot, but I also felt this weird despair of like, God, you know, the chances are probably right. It just won't even get made into a show. And here's this incredible creative work and these characters that are so alive. And I'm invested in them now. I want to know what happens to them. And I told Clement, I was like, while you're working to get this made into a TV show, why don't you write a novel version of it? If you do that, I will like, I will help you get it published. This was before I even was going to do a press. And then, you know, life moves on and suddenly I'm doing a press and suddenly my friend Clement Goldberg has finished the novel and it's fantastic. It's so good. And I was like, Oh my God, Clement, it's called New Mistakes. And I was like, you should sell this for like $100,000. But if you don't want to, I will publish it. You know, I felt bad. I was like, Oh no, I feel like because of our friendship, I could get them to give me this book. But I feel like as a friend, I should probably try to help them get money for it. But so I was going back and forth about it. But in the end, they wanted to put it out on dopamine. And I'm so grateful for that because it's an excellent book. It's really a frolic. It's just about that's coming up. Yes, it'll be the first single author book that comes out. It's a novel. It's really great. And then after that, you know, there's another writer, Vera Blossom, who, through the pandemic, I was doing a podcast about magic called Your Magic.  And she was one of the producers, but she's also a writer.  And it's so good. And I just think she's a star. And I was like, Vera, why don't you write a book? And I'll publish it, like write the book version of your newsletter. And she was like, oh, my God, I just did a spell to get a book deal.  And so, so yeah, so I'm editing, I'm editing that book, write that manuscript right now. That will be out in the fall. And then I also got a solicit, in my mailbox, this writer whose work I'm aware of, real small press books in the past. His name is Sean Stewart Ruff.  I'm sorry, not in Philadelphia, in Cleveland. Yeah. So it's, his stuff is really good. He's really a strong writer. And he sent me like, he keeps returning to this character. But you can kind of read any of the books individually, you don't have to read them as a series, but he's just, this is his, you know, passion to kind of tell the story of this character through different eras of his life. So yeah, it's a really great story about the repercussions of a hate crime in the life of this gay boy, who's just sort of like still living at home, has dreams of getting out of the house, he's like about to go to college, and his life becomes completely uprooted because of this, this act of violence. It's a really great book. It's called Days Running. And so those are the first books, are you going to try to play one a year or? Yeah, I'm trying to put out four books a year. One of those will be the anthology that hopefully helps fund the press, and then three books by three single author books. So, you know, the three single author books for 2024 was meant to be Clement Goldberg, Vera Blossom and Sean Stewart Ruff.  I mean, I'm sorry, during the election month, like it's coming out at the election. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that might not be good, you know. And his publicist was like, would you consider moving it to February? Maybe we could catch some Black History Month, you know, glimmer for it. And I was like, I will do whatever everyone feels like is best for this book. I just want this book to shine. I want it to get all the attention it deserves. So that book will now be in February 2025. So we'll have five books in 2025. And, you know, it's really good that, or really spectacular, I guess, one could say that they're suppressed for less than mainstream publishing, which has gotten to be, as you know, just awful. And unless you're a major writer, you don't even get the chance, really. It's really difficult. It's really, really difficult.  And it's really hard to get poetry published, obviously. It's really hard for queer writers to truly be themselves and get published. It happens, of course. But, and I'm so in awe of writers who are able to completely maintain their unique style and voice and still find success. And I'm thinking of like Brunt, as Pernell, Gerba, Grace Lavery, like these are folks who've been able to really stay and find an audience and success. But it's hard, I think.    So I'm really happy to be able to provide a spot where, you know, we value the fact that, you know, people's writing style might not be what is the, the one that's in vogue right now. They might be doing something a little different, you know, but, but always interesting, always valuable, always exciting, you know, it's like, yeah. I always find edgy work to be a little, you know, more interesting to me. Me too. Me too. Somebody that has like, you know, reminds me of Chelsea, it's edgy. Exactly. It's like, we've been raised to have a certain aesthetic, right? And we need to feed that, you know, we have a certain taste now. My partner and I went to see you and sister spit in the boundary of, I don't know, you were pregnant until you didn't come. So we missed you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Susan Silverman. Susan, yeah. She did it for you. Okay. And it was great. It was really good. Yeah. It's always such a great crew. It's always a great crew. Yeah. Yeah. And we had a really good time. So we're about running out of time here. Okay. And so if people want to talk, I want to give money, they can go to dopamine.com or. Dot org, dopaminebooks.org. Okay. Well, we'll put that up and flash it up here so that people will know where to go. Yeah. And if you ever want to do like a book or a fundraiser, we're here in Vermont. We got a lot of lesbians and gay people and drug people up here. Oh, man. But, you know, if we can help in any way, we would love to. Gosh, that sounds incredible. I think we did something and I don't know, maybe we've never done anything in Vermont, which is such a horrible oversight, but it's just about having the right connections. But maybe I have one now in you. And we have some good connections here. So, you know, maybe we can work something out. Okay. And good luck in this new project. And, you know, I'm thinking in a year, you'll have another something else that you thought of. Oh my God. I hope you're not right. It's like only so many hours in the day. You know, like, I don't know what that will be, but it'll be very creative, I'm sure. And, you know, very interesting to everybody. And, you know, I've been following your work for a long time. Of course, partly because, you know, we're sisters in the spirit here. Yeah, we are partly because you're fabulous. Thank you. And we've done a couple of your books in our reading groups. Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I appreciate that. And, you know, that's a good way to get people on to your, you know, like buying books. Yeah.  Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So... Yeah. Well, I have a new book coming out in October. It's called Modern Magic, Modern Magic, and it's essays about magic. So maybe I can come out to Vermont on my book tour. I would love that. Oh, that'd be great. We have a great bookstore. Yeah. Independent bookstore. All right. I'll follow up with you. And fundraising. Hey, you know, we'll do what we can to help you. So take care of yourself. You too. And I'm going to be around Chelsea next week, so I'm going to say hi for both of us. Please do. Oh my gosh. One other thing.  Did you go to Revere Beach on Easter all dressed up? We did every Easter. I don't know what it was. No, we never did that. That's a tradition. Yeah. We didn't do that one. If you had to reach on Easter, I know. I wonder if my mom did. My mom might have done it. Maybe it was Leigh. Yeah. Yeah. Totally, totally. Hang in there. You too. And let's talk again soon. Okay. Thank you so much for this. It was great talking to you. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.


With that said, we're going to be looking today at Acts chapter 20. We're going to be going from verse 17 concluding at the verse 38, the last verse found in chapter 20, and this is Paul's goodbye to the Ephesian elders. And so let's begin reading together. And I'll just read verse 17, lay the foundation, remind you of a few things, and then get into our study. We'll be looking at verses 17 through 38 though as we go through this particular study of Paul's final goodbye to the Ephesian elders. It says in verse 17, from myeletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church. So Paul is on his way to celebrate Pentecost in the city of Jerusalem, and he had begun his journey from the northern north-western coast of what is today modern Turkey in a place called Troas, and he's been traveling south. And we saw that in his journey south that he had stopped in a place called Ossus, and Middle-Een, and Chios, and Samos, and he has come now to a place called Myeletus. Now Myeletus was located on the central coast of Turkey. It's situated about 20, rather 35 miles south of the city of Ephesus. Now he desired to be in Jerusalem for Pentecost, and because of that he had bypassed the city of Ephesus, and yet he still has ministry that he wants to perform, and so he wants to spend time, as we'll see, with the elders from the church of Ephesus. So notice how it says in verse 17 from Myeletus, he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church. And so Paul is summoning these elders, and the elders would have been the spiritual leaders of local congregations. And that was his ministry method. We've already seen it as we've been going through Acts. He would plant a church where he'd train elders. In Acts 14 I'll give you an example. Verse 23 it says, when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed. So his ministry was to plant churches and develop leadership very often. That's what had happened in the church of Ephesus. Now Paul knew that this would be the last time that he was going to see these men. So as their leader and as their pastor, this is really his final goodbye. So what would be his last message to these men? What would he say knowing that he would never see them face to face? Again, Paul knew that he wasn't going to be able to mentor them any longer. And so he's beginning to speak to them. Again, this is a ministry to church elders. This is a passage of Scripture that I've taught on a few occasions to elders in churches. There are things here that are things that we as leaders in the church should be aware of. And I'm going to speak in the way that I would ordinarily in some way speak to pastors and elders. I'm going to speak that way to you. But I'm also praying that the Lord will give me opportunity or at least wisdom to be able to make it practical for those of us who are believers who are learning things concerning the Lord and the way that God moves in the church. And so Paul is going to speak to these men because he's no longer going to see them. He's not going to be able to mentor them any longer. And he's breaking ministry down. And what I've done is I have broken into four essentials, the things that he has to say. And I'll point those out as we go through this. And so first he's going to point to the conduct of a minister. And he does so in verse 18 following. It says in verse 18, when they had come to him, he said to them, you know from the first day that I came to Asia in what manner I always lived among you. It begins with the conduct of the minister. How should pastors and leaders conduct themselves in the church and in the world? You see, leadership is often thought of in terms of position or certain responsibilities, but spiritual leadership is different. We view it in terms of people, not positions. We view it in terms of relationships, not responsibilities. And the goal of spiritual leadership is encouraging believers into spiritual maturity. When Paul was later to write to the church of Ephesus, these elders would be receiving this letter when he would write to the church of Ephesus. He said in Ephesians 4, 13 through 15, he said, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ, then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead he says, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head that is Christ. And so what does he have to say?  Well, in order to begin sharing with them about leadership in the body of Christ, notice how he uses himself as a pattern, which is again how I refer to it as the conduct of a minister. Notice again in verse 18, it says, when they had come to him, he said to them, you know from the first day that I came to Asia in what manner I always lived among you. So he speaks of a consistent Christ-centered life. He says that this is how I have lived amongst you. I've consistently lived in a certain way, which means that Paul didn't wear an apostle mask when he was with people and then the just ordinary guy mask when he wasn't ministering. Paul was consistently aware of who he was and Paul was constantly aware of those whom he served. And he was very careful in the way that he lived. He wanted to make sure that he would have a way of always having a word to share with them, to encourage them in their walks with God. When he wrote to the Corinthians in 2 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 3, he said it like this. He said, we give no offense in anything that our ministry may not be blamed. So Paul lived a consistent life. He says, you know from the first day that I came to Asia, how I always lived amongst you, what manner I always lived.  Why? Why do you need consistency? Because consistency establishes credibility. Because in your consistency, you actually earn the respect of those whom you serve. Paul was a living epistle. And because he was consistent, he could encourage people to use him as an example. In Philippians 4 verse 9, he had written to them the things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me these do. And the God of peace will be with you. In 1 Corinthians 11 verse 1, he said, imitate me just as I also imitate Christ. So he said, I lived in a certain way in front of you from the very first day. And this is something I consistently did. I always lived in this way in front of you. You see, people learn to express their faith by watching other Christians as they serve him. It's been said, don't practice what you preach. Preach what you practice. And so his life was one of consistency. And so that is how people can watch and they can learn when we share about the Lord and how we live. Well, sometimes they may not know exactly what that looks like. And so when we live in a consistent pattern following the things of the Lord, people have an obvious example before them and it helps them. So godly lives are modeled and sincere Christians learn how to live in part by seeing how others live. And that's why Paul would tell a young man named Timothy to be an example. I had the opportunity recently, my wife and I, to have a lunch with a young pastor.  He and his wife. And as an older man, he and I, you know, he wanted to have, you know, be together with us and to talk and to share and all of that. And that's part of what I was sharing with him. I was sharing with him as we're having lunch. I was sharing with him that it's important for you as a young man to earn the respect of those that you teach. I shared with him that I was 23 years old when I began to teach the Bible and my first Bible, quote unquote, students included my parents.  How does that happen? And I said it happens by being a consistent example of a believer because you earn the respect of the one that you're wanting to minister to. And so I was sharing with this young man, live in such a way that people can respect you. And you can, in that way, you can minister to them because they see that you're sincere. Now, when Paul was writing to a young man named Timothy, who was less than 40 years of age, who became the pastor of the church of Ephesus, when he wrote to Timothy in 1 Timothy 4 verse 12, he said it like this. He said, let no one despise your youth, be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, and in purity. Be an example, be a living epistle, be a letter that is known and read by these people. You see, Paul had a living faith that he could, that he had, that he could encourage others to have. So as you live for Christ, you will establish credibility and you can become a model of a Christian. And so he says, you know from the first day that I came to Asia, when I first came to where you're at, in what manner I always lived among you, serving the Lord, verse 19, with all humility, with many tears and trials, which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews. So he's reminding them that service is not simply to men, but it begins with the Lord. Notice in verse 19, serving the Lord. Christian service is not primarily man-centered. Christian service is God-centered. What we do is we love God with all our hearts. We love our neighbors as ourselves, but it begins with loving God. In Acts 13, verse two, it says, as they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, now separate to me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Separate to me. So service begins with the Lord and it extends to people. And he describes how he served the Lord. Notice with all humility, many tears and trials, with all humility. Paul didn't Lord it over the people. Paul had a humble and a gentle heart. And that was an example to the people. They said, this is a humble man. He had visions. He had seen many things. He had done many things. He had ministered for a long time. He could have had an arrogance about him, an experience that could actually have produced a kind of a lording and over mentality. He could have had that, but he didn't. He said, I served you with humility, but not only that. I want you to see this. He said, I also served you with humility, tears and trials. This was a time when men would not show tears because men showing tears was really humiliating. And it was simply an unmanly thing to do for a man to show tears and weakness. You know, just last night, I was watching the news, and one of the news commentators mocked any man, he said, who shows tears. It was just a wrong thing to do. It's not something men are to do. And Paul said, even in face of a culture that rejects a man showing emotion, I showed it before you. My heart was open before you. I revealed myself to you, and you saw this with the humility that was required to actually show tears to you in a time when Stoics and others like that said, no, you never show what's inside. You never expose the hand. You never do that. You keep it to yourself. Don't cry. Don't show emotion. Don't do that. Paul said, no, I did that. In 2 Corinthians 2, verse 4, he said, I wrote you out of great distress and anguish of heart. And he says with many tears, not to grieve you, but to let you know the depth of my love for you. I was aware of how it could appear, but I opened my heart nonetheless, and I showed you that it's okay for a man to have emotions that are deep and to be exposed before you. As an example, you are elders. You need to be touched by the infirmities of the ones that you minister to. And if Jesus Christ wept for our cities as well as individuals, you ought to have a heart that is known for the compassionate love and concern for others. That's what ministers are supposed to do. Somebody once teased me because on occasion may show emotion like every week and said, basically, I don't know why this guy cries in the pulpit. It was at a pastor's conference, and pastors were saying that, and it came back to me. So I shot him. And my response has always been the same. You don't know why I cry. I don't know why you don't. I don't know why you don't. Because a true minister, Paul, who is a very strong man, and you'll see more of that in a moment, said, I was with you with humility. I was with you with tears and afflictions and trials. You know this about me. You see, they were aware of the things he had endured at the hands of unbelieving Jews. And from the beginning of his walk with the Lord, Paul had been persecuted and especially by those who were Jewish. In Acts 9.29, it says he was talking and arguing with the Hellenistic Jews, but they were attempting to put him to death. Acts 13, verse 50, the Jews incited the devout women of prominence and the leading men of the city and instigated a persecution against Paul and Barnabas and drove them out of their district. Acts 14, verse 5, an attempt was made by both Gentiles and the Jews with their rulers to mistreat and to stone them. Acts 14.19, Jews came from Antioch and Iconium and having won over the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead. Acts 18, verse 12, while Galio was proconsol of Ikea, the Jews with one accord rose up against Paul and brought him before the judgment seat. You're aware of the various things that I've gone through. It says in verse 21, 20, rather, I kept back nothing that was helpful, proclaimed it to you, taught you publicly from house to house, testify to Jews and also to Greek repentance toward God, faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. So the things that I have endured, the things that I've gone through is an example. They are an example for what you should be prepared for. Again, in 2 Timothy in chapter 3, verse 12, he said, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. And so he's sharing with them not only what he's gone through, but as a model. This is what you should use as your model and be aware of it. Serve the Lord with humility. Be open and do so with many tears and realize that there are trials which will happen to you even as they happen to me by those who are adversaries of the gospel. But in spite of that, verse 20, he said, I kept nothing back. But that was, he said, that which was helpful, he proclaimed to them. So he did not hold back from them what was important for them to have. He faithfully and he diligently gave them whatever would strengthen them in the Lord. Now, what was the most helpful thing that he shared with them? Verse 21, testifying to Jews and also to Greeks repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. What is the most important thing? Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord. This is what he did for them. And this is what they were to do for others. They were to keep the simple message simple. They were supposed to speak the things that were basic. They were supposed to know what was, what the Word of God says and in giving them a thorough study, and we'll see this in a moment, they would be doing the right kind of thing. And that's why he spoke of repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. And that was the center of his message. And so as he says that, verse 22, and see, now I go bound in the Spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing the things that will happen to me there, except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city saying that chains and tribulations await me. I go bound in the Spirit. I'm impaled by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem. In chapter 19, verse 21, that verse reveals that Paul purposed in the Spirit to go to Jerusalem. This is something he knew the Spirit was leading him to do. But as he says in verse 22, he did not know the things that would happen to him there. But one thing he did know, verse 23, the Holy Spirit testifies in every city saying that chains and tribulations await me. He was getting words, prophetic words as he was ministering and preparation that you are going to go through jail, chains, and you're going to go through affliction. This is what's going to happen. One thing I know, so God was preparing him and he's willing to do whatever it takes. And as he's sharing about that and has spoken concerning himself as a man, he's also going to now commit them because he wants to show them the commitment of a minister. The one thing I know, chains and tribulations await me. And God had worked in his life to prepare him to be willing to do whatever it would take. He's committed. Notice verse 24, none of these things move me nor do I count my life dear to myself so that I may finish my race with joy and the ministry which I receive from the Lord Jesus to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. None of these things move me. Paul knew that he would greatly suffer. He already had been prepared all the way from when he first came to faith in Christ and God had told a man by the name of Ananias to pray for him. It's found in Acts chapter nine. And when Ananias was being instructed by the Lord, God had said to him that Paul, this man will suffer many things for my name's sake. And Paul knew that. Paul knew that he would go through various things, painful things, trials of affliction. He knew all of that and he said, none of this moves me. None of this is going to keep me from doing that, which I need to do. Why is that? Because it's so important that people hear the gospel and are saved. Next week or so we're going to be looking into chapter 21. Notice what he says in verse 13 when they're telling him that they're concerned about him. He says, what do you mean by weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to go not only to be bound but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of our Lord Jesus. Why are you trying to stop me? Why are you breaking my heart with your tears? You need to know I'm willing to do whatever God has called me to do. And that's why in verse 24 he says, none of these things move me. My heart is to see people saved. I want people to know the Lord. That's why I go, he's saying, from place to place. And elders, you need to be willing to do the same. You need to be willing to go through whatever you need to go through in obedience to Christ because a message in people is that important. He says in verse 24, I want to finish my race with joy and the ministry, he says, that I have received. I want to do this with faithfulness. So that gives us insight into the knowledge that Paul had of his time coming to an end. And his desire and commitment is to finish faithfully. And he wants to do so with joy, with the joy of salvation. You see, he received ministry and he wants to be faithful to the end of it. In 2 Timothy 4, 7, and 8, he said it like this, he said, I fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I've kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day. And not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. I have fought the good fight, finished the race, kept the faith. That's the heart of not only a minister, that's the heart of a believer. You're in the fight. You're going to finish it and you're going to receive that crown. And he said, that's where my commitment is. And elders, you know that I have gone through pain. You know that the chains and tribulation are awaiting me. And he said, and I'm willing to embrace that, which is necessary for me to be faithful to the end. He says now in verse 25, and indeed now I know that you all among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God will see my face no more. And therefore I testify to you this day that I'm innocent of the blood of all men, for I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. My work in this area is complete. I don't anticipate seeing you ever again. And as far as I can see, this is my last goodbye to you. And I want you to know that I've been an example of giving my all to serving the Lord. I've done this as an example, and you men, you need to do the same. And because of that, verse 26, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. You see, Paul had received the ministry of evangelizing. He had faithfully done so. He had faithfully discharged his commission. He was free of what is called blood guilt. And because of this, if people were lost forever, it was not his fault. He was not to blame for that. He had consistently and faithfully discharged his commission. He had evangelized faithfully and therefore was free from the blood he says of all men. He said, I have preached to the Jews. I have preached to the Gentiles. I have called them to repentance. I've called them to faith in Jesus Christ. And what is it that gave him confidence that he'd be free? Well, in verse 27, I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. I've told you that A to Z, I've taught you. I haven't avoided. I haven't shunned. I haven't avoided the hard issues. In verse 20, it said, I have kept nothing back. I have taught you all that I could about Jesus Christ. And that reveals that Paul didn't hesitate to share the unvarnished truth of the gospel. He didn't concern himself with popularity. He didn't concern himself with fear of offending others. Even if what he had to say was difficult to hear, he faithfully would share it. He thoroughly taught them the essential doctrines. He taught them how to minister. He taught them about salvation. He taught them about who they were in Christ. He taught them what to do. In his letter to the Ephesians, he would give us a deeper look into what he had taught. And that would also give us the insight that they were receptive to teaching. When he says, I have not shunned, you can pour into somebody who's willing. But when somebody is unwilling, you don't really spend that much time with them. When somebody is unwilling to learn, you will not spend that much time. If they want to know, they'll ask. If they don't want to know, then you leave them alone. These people were willing to hear. These are people who wanted to know. I've been in ministry for a long time. I taught my first Bible study in 1973. So I've been in ministry serving the Lord as a teacher for 51 years. And I can tell you, and then the years that God has given to me to be able to do what I do, I can tell you there are those who are not interested, and there are those who are nothing but interested. And for me, my joy as an elder in the body of Christ, my joy is pouring into those who want to know. But there are those who want to just to argue. There are those who just want to be something important. And I've told John, you've got to stop that. No, it's just, there are those who want to know, and they'll ask. And sometimes they'll even walk with you and ask questions because they're hungry. That's why it's easier to pour into them. It's not that he's telling them to suspend their discernment. No, of course not. But they respected he was a teacher. They knew the things of God. Paul was an apostle, and he says, I haven't shunned to declare into you because you have been open. I'll show you something in a minute about this, but you've been open. So I was able to give to you the entire council of God from the A to the Z.  That's why I can now leave you because I've done those things. I haven't held anything back. I've taught you the essentials. Now these are men who are leaders in the church. They're supposed to have a hunger for truth. They're supposed to have a hunger for proper teaching. And as far as they appeared at that moment, they seem to have that hunger. So he tells them, I have taught you thoroughly. You see, teaching the whole council of God is the duty of every minister. It's God's word that reveals the way of holiness, provides light and darkness. And that's why we teach first by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. Somebody once said today, if you say you believe God's word provides you with all the spiritual insight necessary for a healthy and satisfied life, even Christians will consider you simplistic and simple-minded. And we have that today in the body of Christ where people will think, oh no, there's got to be something outside of the word of God. There's got to be something within our culture. And they move into a wrong direction. He said, no, I kept you. I took you from the A to the Z. I taught you the word. And in teaching you the word of God, I was teaching you how to live for God. And when a situation arises, you'll have a biblical foundation which you can draw from the wisdom from God's word to be able to know how to act in this particular situation that you encounter. There are people who are always seeking for something new and they don't realize that you don't go deeper than your foundations. And so Paul laid a foundation solid in the word of God because it's a word of God that equips them. When you read your Bible, the longest Psalm and the longest chapter in scripture is Psalm 119. In Psalm 119, there are 176 verses. And 168 of those verses give praise to the word of God. And so we're going to go through every one of them right now. Let me give you an example. Psalm 119 verse 9, how can a young man cleanse his way by taking heat according to your word? Psalm 119 verse 11, your word, have I hidden my heart that I might not sin against you? Psalm 119, 105, your word is a lamp to my feet, a light to my path. Psalm 119, 130, the entrance of your words gives light. It gives understanding to the simple. Psalm 119 verse 41, let your mercies come also to me, O Lord, your salvation according to your word. Today, some churches are built on theater. They're built on the pastor's pet doctrines, prophecy, healing tongues, prosperity, spiritual gifts, politics, music. And because they don't receive thorough teaching, the sheep are actually starved. Paul said, I haven't shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.  And so these are the things that I want you to know so you put these things into practice. Why? Because you're going to have combat. He now begins with the combat of the minister. And he's saying you are in spiritual warfare. Therefore, in verse 28, take heed to yourselves and to all the flock among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which he purchased with his own blood. And now he's letting them know about the combat. He's speaking to them because they're in spiritual warfare. And he's stirring their hearts and he's stirring the hearts of the elders that they might have a concern for the flock. And he begins by pointing to the condition of their own souls. Notice how he says, take heed to yourselves.  Your own walk must be closely guarded. You cannot lead anyone to where you're unwilling to go yourself.  For if you do these things, you will never stumble. First Corinthians 9, 25 through 27, everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last. But we do it to get a crown that will last forever. And therefore, I do not run like someone running aimlessly. I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. No, I strike a blow to my body and I make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Guard your heart. Now, as you guard your heart, staying in the Word and being careful about those things that you set your heart upon, you will also, verse 28, take heed to all the flock. Now, notice the Holy Spirit made them overseers. It's a Holy Spirit who did so. It's interesting in verse 28 how he speaks concerning this because he says the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. That word overseers, an interesting word. It literally means watchers. It's a Holy Spirit who has placed you to watch over the flock. You are the watchers of the flock. And by the way, you didn't get elected by men. You were called by God because ordination is from above. It's John 15, 16 that says, you haven't chosen me. I've chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit that your fruit should remain. You aren't selected by some committee. You are called by God and men will recognize the call because of the lifestyle that you have. But you need to understand that you take heed to yourself. You need to discipline yourself because you yourself may lose the ability to minister because of a bad life. So make sure you care for yourself. But also remember that you're to take heed to all the flock. You have an oversight.  You have responsibility. And you're to shepherd. That word shepherd means to furnish food. It means to feed and tenderly care for. You're to do this. Now in Jeremiah 315 God said this. He said, I will give you shepherds according to my heart who will feed you with knowledge and understanding. You see in verse 28, this is the church of God which he purchased that says with his own blood. How did he do that? Well, Jesus gave up his life on the cross and he redeemed us. Peter in 1 Peter 1 18 and 19 says knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things like silver or gold from aimless and aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers but with the precious blood of Christ as of a lamb without blemish without spot. How were you redeemed by the death of Christ who poured out his blood? Remember that God has called you. He has made you watchers. You're to feed the church of God but it belongs to him. So don't own the sheep. Care for them. Now Paul, why are you saying this verse 29? For I know this that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after themselves. He spoke of them as being shepherds. Now he speaks of wolves and he calls them savage. The word savage speaks of that which is violent or cruel. It speaks of viciousness. He's speaking of the vicious false teachers. When God is moving the enemy begins to destroy if he can and he often incites various forms of opposition and resistance. Notice verse 29 how he says for I know this that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you. There will be outside oppression. There will be people who are coming in for the purpose of destroying you. They are savage and they're attempting to steal from you that which has been deposited in you. These are outsiders. These are people who come in to the church in order to destroy. You may or may not know this. I think all of you do but perhaps you don't. But the people who are out there in the parking lot when you came rolling in this morning and you have people who are standing out there and are helping you to find a space it's not as if you can't find your own space. Part of the reason they're there obviously so courteously be of help to you. Sometimes people who roll in don't they've never been here before so they can serve to be help for you to find places to go and all of that. But also what some of you may not know is over the years we've had people come into that parking lot and they have come and they've put little tracks or they've put in their church bulletins. And many times what it is is it's a bulletin that is really one that's like a track that will say these are the things we believe and they want you to follow after them. And they will. That's why we have people out there who are walking and watching because we've had them putting things on the on windshields. So they come in from the outside. We have found these kinds of things in the church pews where they're leaving things hoping that somebody will pick it up and read it and follow their own doctrines. And so he's saying there are going to be people who are outsiders who are going to attempt to enter into the church and create problems. So be prepared for this. But verse 30 also from among yourselves men will rise up speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after themselves. Well when the enemy attempts to destroy sometimes he begins by joining joining the church in order that he might destroy it from within. And when people in the church do something of that like that it creates confusion. People sometimes who are leaders in the church can speak perverse things. It speaks of perverse. It means to twist to turn aside from the right path to bring corruption. And early in the history of the church this was taking place. We've been looking at the book of Jude and in Jude verses three and four the writer said beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation. I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed who long ago were marked out for this condemnation ungodly men who turned the grace of our God into ludeness deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. So he's saying this is going to happen guys. He's saying savage wolves are going to come in among you not sparing the flock but from among yourselves men will also rise up. And so he's saying be careful and finally in verse 31 he goes on to say therefore watch and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears. Watch remember I warned you. Watch beyond the alert for these things to happen. Remember I taught you the A to Z so you should be able to discern.  And because of that verse 32 now brethren I commend you to God and to the word of his grace which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. I commend you and I'm commending you to prayer. I'm commending you to the word of God and now he closes with the conscience of the minister. How are you supposed to live verse 33? I have coveted no one silver or gold or apparel. Yes you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities and for those who are with me. I have shown you in every way by laboring like this that you must support the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus that he said it is more blessed to give than to receive. A ministry that is honoring to God focuses on giving not getting and those who are genuine ministers do not do it for monetary gain. In 2nd Corinthians 2 17 he said we are not as so many peddling the word of God but as of sincerity as from God we speak in the sight of God in Christ. You know that with my own hands I worked and not only did I supply my needs but I also helped other people because it is more blessed to give than it is to receive and then he says this in verse 36 and we'll roll to a conclusion. When he had said these things he knelt down and prayed with them all and they all wept freely fell on Paul's neck and kissed him. Sarwin most of all for the words which he spoke that they would see his face no more and they accompanied him to the ship. Paul's goodbye I commend you to God I'm trying to find the proper way to close I'll make it a bit personal the Lord gave me opportunity the honor and opportunity 42 years ago in July it'll be 43 to plant this church these are the things that I've attempted as a pastor to be faithful to the center of it has always been an attempt to live for the Lord as an example of a believer the center of it has has been attempting to teach the word of God verse by verse chapter by chapter book by book and over these 42 years I've said a lot of goodbyes in a life you will always discover that there are many hellos but there are also many goodbyes sometimes people don't care enough about you to say goodbye to you and sometimes that could be awkward because a minister like myself and others we pour our hearts into the ministry we we pour our hearts into the study of the word of God we pour our hearts in the attempt of of giving to the the sheep that God has entrusted to our care the very best that we can and so over the years and you can't imagine over the years almost 43 years some of you haven't been alive that long over those years you see a lot of people coming you see a lot of people go and and some people when they leave they say God bless you I love you I'm moving on other people you just run into them in a restaurant or a supermarket or or some place like that in the city sometimes they'll approach you and and and say hello sometimes they will put their hair I had this has happened when Marie and I have been together where this woman put her hair over her face trying to hide from me so I wouldn't see her that was a good thing to have hair over her face the awkwardness the difficulty you can have Paul was saying goodbye and one day I will one day I will and my heart's prepared whenever the Lord says go it's time to go because I can say I have not shunned to declare unto you the entire counsel of God from A to Z I've taken this church from Genesis to Revelation some books many times so I can say I'm free from the blood of all men I can say I've done what God called me to do I can say wherever he takes me I'm ready to go and I've told John I get emotional forgive me but then again Paul did why can't I I've told John and he didn't like hearing this but it's true I said one day John he was in my office trying to take over I said you got to stop this get your books off my shelf John but I've sat with him in meeting after meeting after meeting over the many years that he's been on staff with us now and I pointed to the door of my office that leads to the parking lot and he said it with it's a fact I said one of these days I'm going to walk out of that door John and I'll never come back one of these days John loves me he gets emotional when I say that but it's true but I have poured into people everything I could right and that's what a minister is supposed to do and we do that because we love God and we do that because we love our people how do you think Paul felt when he was sharing you see in the church today it's a plague it's been called the church on wheels I'll go here as long as I get what I want and then I'll go to this place that will fill me at areas that I need and instead of being planted rooted grounded they're constantly uprooting themselves and the fruit isn't there always looking for the next thing always looking for the what I need right now and failing to realize that you don't go much deeper than your foundation and if you have a foundational knowledge of the things of God you can build on those things but if your life is built on sinking sand when the difficulties arrive you're going to be demolished and that's why we build on the sure rock of Jesus Christ and that comes through the teaching of the word of God and that's why every pastor should not shun to declare unto the entire congregation the word of God why because the storms come but when the storms come you have a solid foundation you hold fast to the one who hold fast to you and you know that and that comes through the word and so Paul Paul is there with these men and as he's looking at them we don't know how many there were but there's a group of men he's giving his last words to them he loves these men and many of them loved him it says that again verse 36 he knocked down he prayed with them and they all wept freely and fell on Paul's neck kissed him sorrowing most of all for the words which he spoke that they would see his face no more as I was sharing first service I looked into one of the rows in the back and and I pointed out a man in our fellowship who was the one who opened his doors to our our first bible study our church began in his house David signs and he was sitting back there and I said that David's bible they showed it to me years ago years ago from Genesis to Revelation is marked up by the bible studies that he has sat in in this fellowship for all of these years his bible is marked up with notes he said I left it home because I went and spoke to him after service he said I I've left that bible home that's the bible I leave at home and I've got another bible I now come in I'm marking and I said when I said one day I'll walk at the door and I'll never come back I saw his head go down and he started to cry he said don't go I talked to him afterwards I'm not ready for you to go pastor every pastor hopes that those that he loves so much would at least care for him but you don't minister for how much they love you you minister because of how much you love Jesus and you love them and that's how it works that's how it works Paul is speaking to a small group of men but in that group were men who would betray him in the group were men who would betray him he gives their names you see it in 1st and 2nd Timothy hymen is philetus alexander men who had they're sitting there listening along with Timothy who became the pastor of the church and there are these men and they're listening and and and they're crying they're probably we're crying too and they're all holding Paul but they later on were named in scripture as people who undermine the work of God 2nd Timothy 2 16 through 18 shun profane and idle babblings they will increase to more ungodliness their message will spread like cancer hymen is and philetus are of this sort who have strayed concerning the truth saying the resurrection's already passed they overthrow the faith of some he had a name these people he mentioned them by name and the church knew who they were how do you think Paul felt when he was speaking knowing that within the confines of this group of men that he loved so much men who came and wept when he said you'll see my face no more it reminds me of when Jesus and the last time he was with his men sharing Passover how that he said one of you who are eating with me here at this table will betray me and they one by one said is it I Lord is it I is it I and Judas himself said is it I looking at them knowing you're going to divide the body of Christ I spent three years pouring into you and we knew get the opportunity you'll do that Paul's last letter that he ever wrote was a letter to Timothy 2nd Timothy again Timothy was a pastor of the church of Ephesus and he said in this letter in the fourth chapter he said Demas who was a friend and traveling companion has forsaken me having loved this present age departed for Thessalonica in 2nd Timothy 4 16 and 17 he said at my first defense no one stood with me all forsook me may it not be charged against him but the Lord stood with me strengthened me so that the message might be preached fully through me and that all the Gentiles might hear also I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion a man whose ministry spanned many years who traveled as extensively as he could planting churches ministering to people making sure to follow up with them to come to see how they are imparting more information more knowledge more love he's there speaking to these men for the last time and they begin to weep and that they begin to hold them and they begin to cry upon them and amongst them were people who were one day going to betray the gospel how do ministries end sometimes they end like Paul he said all forsook me no one stood with me there were a handful of people that he could name who remained faithful to a man who had been faithful to them we don't see a lot of emotion in this and I'll close with this what we see is a matter of fact approach to life there are those who love christ there are those who love the one that god is used in their life to help them to know christ and there are others who could care less because what's in their heart is not for the things of the lord at all and as he's looking and sharing he knows that over the years that I've pasted this church I've had a few I've had a few but you don't minister to be loved you minister because you love because he first loved you and Paul when they're kissing him and holding him it was time to go and again one day I'll do the same I'll leave because that's the way it is all ministers have shelf life and eventually mine's gonna come but not now it's not time not time