Welcome to the October the 19th, 2020 Design Review Committee meeting for my pillar. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves by speaking their names. Ben Cheney. Martha Snersky. Anna Smith. Eric Yalbertson. And Meredith Crandall staff. I have my video off right now so that the audio will work better. Sorry Steve. Okay good. Would, before we move to the agenda, would Meredith like to review the remote meeting procedures? Yes. Let me do a quick share screen for people watching via ORCA. Okay can everybody see that? Yes. Yes. All right so for those viewing this meeting via ORCA you can participate in the Design Review Committee meeting via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options as follows. There is the joining the Zoom meeting link here. Alternatively you can call this phone number and use the meeting ID here and the password here to log in. 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Please note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote. I'll now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Everybody had a chance to look at the agenda and if so do I hear a motion to approve the agenda from the committee members? So moved Eric. Do I hear second? Seconded. All in favor speak your names. Martha. Eric. Ben. Anna. And Steve. So unless anybody has anything else to add we can move forward for our school street. I'm going to pull this application up on the share screen I know and just for for people's information Austin did send me a couple more photos um that I can share on the screen when we get to that point just let me know when. Okay is someone there from school street to describe the application? Yes this is Austin Cade. Oh hi Austin. Hi. Go ahead and describe the heat pump the outside compressor and the location. Sure so it's the outside compressor unit is relatively standard for for a residential heat pump. I think it's a little under three feet by two feet tall and about 15 inches deep. It'll be mounted about three and change feet above ground level. It will be on if everyone's familiar with school street our building is next to the funeral home so there's a driveway between our building and the funeral home it will be to the side of our driveway there so it will be viewable you could see it from the sidewalk on school street yeah so where that tree is it'll be like under yeah exactly right there so it's pretty well tucked out of the way but you will be able to see it if you from the street some of the other photos I sent Meredith just today show the angle a little bit better anyway it will be connected inside to a common area it'll be keeping the basement from freezing as well as a front hallway at a reasonable temperature yeah so that gray blob that I drew on there so there's like a little porch behind that you can see that sticks out but that I don't know if that orangeish shrub will end up going away or just being trimmed but it'll be right in in that space and then the pipes will actually there's a window back there into the basement that it doesn't have glass in it it used to be used for the old kerosene system in the basement we're going to run the pipes in through that opening so won't be any other disruption in that area well this unit heat one of the will it heat one of the units in the building or just the basement area no it'll be just for the common area so it's the basement and the front entryway area there has been some expressed interest by some of the owners in doing heat pump heating in the relatively near future and we would probably try to put them in the same area if when we get there but it might just be one actually it wouldn't make sense to put more than one there because where the units are but um but this unit is just for the the association part of the building okay which is mounted separately is it mounted by a bracket to the building that is the current plan to mount it with a bracket um I don't know I didn't see anything in the application about guidance with ground mount versus bracket but the installer we intend to use per first bracket um mounting but uh I imagine we could do either if it was the bracket works very well is this a Mitsubishi unit um this one is a higher um okay but uh the uh the bracket the installer swears by the bracket um so that's where we're headed the bracket works very well unless there is a uh snow and ice load issue but otherwise it's fine okay well it's good good to hear that I personally don't have the the knowledge to carry on a superb conversation on that topic which is kind of a question I have it's hard to tell is it is this on an eve side yeah so the snow does come off here um but it's relatively high up so it usually shoots out of ways um we may have to um put a deflector above the unit um of some cover but I'm hoping it's tucked in enough I actually didn't think to take a measurement of that there we go yeah I also I guess how representative your gray blob really was of its size and relationship to that window yeah I think the size was close but it would be offset from the building and that probably wasn't well represented by a flat gray blob they're usually they're usually only offset from the building six to eight inches on those bracket mounts that's that's pretty standard and then it's the the width of the unit which is seldom over 10 or 12 inches in depth yeah I can look that up I guess I have some concerns about it being in the drip line and then the water pounding off the top of it around that window just sure yeah I understand that um yeah it wouldn't do you want me to go back to the other picture no I was I was just trying to think we had we'd recently had a while a few years ago it put some gutters on part of the building but it wasn't there so I couldn't remember if it was or not um but I understand what you're saying then that does does make sense and um I'll definitely talk with the installer about that and figure out the right approach there yeah is is there any reason you don't put it around the corner behind the building out of the way of the even view so the back of the building is actually like 60 or 80 feet away um where the uh where that porch is the building steps out towards the funeral home and then goes back another uh I guess 60 feet but I don't don't have a measured drawing handy so just distance the arrow on this where it's going to be in this uh yeah so there's that little window where the vents will go in yeah so it'll be between those two back windows that's actually a unless you can move it further down that's probably a good spot to mount it between the windows and then that gives you the option of mounting a little maybe a 45 degree slope protector above it to deflect the water and or ice and snow yeah and I would imagine that tree is due for some trimming as well while I'm looking at this picture but um yeah we can't come too far forward because you can see there's there's vents for some tanklets water heaters in the basement and we want to be a ways back from those I'm not sure if there's additional information that I should share the upward from the from the the the compressor unit itself where does that go yeah it'll go through that window that's uh that in the foundation window um and into into the foundation right there and hold on I've got a different pasted these into a word document it'll be easier to see there's that one so it's going to go right about there right Austin yeah yeah right between those two windows there and then there yeah so you can see that right in front of the edge of the porch is where that window is where the pipes that coolant lines are I guess it's hard to call it coolant when it's also hot sometimes but I guess that's what coolant does the refrigerant lines that's the word I'm looking for now you can mount that as low as possible and again leaving that to the installer mount it as low as possible to allow for snow depth below it so it will operate during the winter if it's a uh if it's a hyper temp so that it I can operate at very low temperatures uh but if you mount it as low as possible that gives you the chance to put a small pitch above it about a a foot foot and a half again to deflect water snow and ice yeah that makes sense we do have to keep it up just a little bit because of the flood elevation um we're we're really close here um to the numbers uh they're in the application but I I think the line is like a couple inches up the siding I gotta go measure it again but no that's fine any committee members have any further questions about the installation of the heat pump all right I D I've asked my question but this is a pretty visible location for it and we do in our guidelines try to have them where they're not visible from the street I couldn't see an alternate if you can't move it back Austin you said that some of the owners are thinking about heat pumps would they be anywhere near this one in terms of their location if that came to be yeah so one of them would probably be limited to a similar location the other two units are in the back or ours which is upstairs um and it would probably end up with like a roof installation or something but um this this unit right here I'm not sure there would be a less visible location the rest of the sides of that unit are uh on St. Paul street and and school street um so there might be an issue there it's possible um it could be a little further back along the building like on the other side of the porch um which you can't see in this picture but um that would get it further from school street but it would potentially be a little more sticking out because there's no vegetation there um there is like a little shed thing built onto the side of the building that has like trash and recycling in it it's possible yeah you can kind of see it behind the car there I don't know if it would be possible to get it in there or back back there and I don't know preference wise whether back there would be better versus out front here but that unit I'm not sure there would be too many other options I think that would be a better location for it from a visual standpoint I don't know about air circulation and all of that stuff uh back back next to the where the car is um yeah I I'm wondering if we could fit this unit there I'm not really sure if there's the height below that window there um I need to I would need to measure that um or whether you build something in front of the porch that obscures it or something like that I'm not sure what other options are there any are there any other basement windows behind further back behind the one that you're planning to go through in other words back behind that um I think there is one more I think there is one more back there um but I'm not sure there's wall space and I if I was standing there I could answer this question easily um but I I don't know if there's wall space back there but I 80% sure there is one more basement window back there but again you're not sure if there's enough space to provide the proper clearances to mount the unit yeah without looking I didn't really do do this take any measurements back there um since we had you know normally we had had all the utilities in this front area you can see where the the fill pipes are for the pipe for the oil tank and a few other things so we had just assumed that this area was the right place but I hadn't really um looked there one one other option would be to plan a you know a five foot tall shrub sure and one one or two in front of it so it screens it from the street yeah I think that would be possible um all right um well I guess how often do you does this committee meet would committee members be comfortable you they're giving them the option to mount it if there's space behind the porch or if not to plan a couple of shrubs to screen it from the from school street that sounds good to me okay that sounds fine to me too I'm fine with both options okay why don't we just give them both options and then they don't have to come back that sounds good I think we need to indicate a preference for the option further back well we can we can do that in the comments will right give them the preference for the location if space allows behind the porch and if not on this side of the porch again as low as possible and screened with some shrubbery okay yeah that that seems reasonable and then we can take a look at the options back further away from the street and see if we can manage something back there otherwise we'll come up with a way to screen it okay yes a couple of upright shrubs that would come up about you know four or five feet that would screen it would would hide it pretty well and not limit the the air movement through the units I think we should include the alternate of a small little shed roof over the unit to yes so I think that does two things it'll avoid splashback onto the siding and also protect the unit from both rain and ice and snow yes no that's a great idea okay with with those recommendations in mind I'll go through the criteria the there's a number of criteria in the design review district for projects and in this case number one exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations it says additions to addition existing building shall be respected be compatible with the size scale materials detailing overall character of the primary building additions so that shall not obscure or undermine the essential forming character of the original building and I would say that that's in this particular installation that's acceptable uh number two existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of time place and use changes that create a false sense of historical development uh shall not be undertaken new construction additions and alterations shall be of their own time that's acceptable proposed landscaping now normally that would be not applicable but in this case one of the recommendations would be to plant some shrubs in front of the unit so we will make a comment that the that if the second preference the second preferred location uh under between the windows is necessary then some shrubs to screen it would be acceptable so I'll call that acceptable location and appearance of all utilities shall be cited to minimize adverse and visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view so again deciding behind the porch is preferable if possible otherwise the screening with the landscaping would be acceptable number six where applicable development shall be designed to respect views of the state house dome I would say that's not applicable here the next item that would apply architectural features including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim other forms of molding or character defining uh detailing shall be considered in the alteration of the building uh this unit with a very small overhang to deflect water and ice and snow is acceptable and then lastly the landscaping screening and site furnishings mechanical equipment such as HVAC elements utility structures loading docks trash receptacles shall be screened from public view either by siding on rooftops or in rear yard locations or via screening with fencing and or landscaping so again either the location behind the porch or screening with landscaping is acceptable so again preferred location behind the porch secondly the second preferred location would be between the windows as in the application and if so it would be screened with shrubs and it's there's an allowance for a small pitched covering above the unit to again deflect water snow and ice and based on that for this particular set of criteria I can move on to the there's another set of criteria that applies also additions and alterations to historic buildings and it says this refers to the historic character of our property shall be retained and preserved character defining features shall be preserved additions do not obscure undermine the essential forming character of the building you do not introduce the style and features that are not compatible with the historic building and development does not destroy character defining features and any treatment that cause damage to the story of materialism including but not limited to chemical or physical treatment such as sand blasting shall not be approved which don't apply in this particular case anyway and then it says new development differentiated from the old but shall respect and be compatible with a massive size scale architectural features of the primary building that's acceptable I'd like to add to the criteria comments it's also reversible that's more of a precedent thing yes and that and that is also has to do with any exterior I'll just say exterior mechanical equipment mechanical slash HVAC equipment is also removable slash reversible and then there's one other section architectural features architectural features on the existing building should be considered in any alteration and there's no there's no deteriorated architectural features in this particular application and those criteria are acceptable as well so with the recommendations again preferred location behind the porch if that's not if that's not advisable based on the proper installation then the other other installation is to the street side of the porch again to be screened by landscaping and also with a small pitched miniatures small roof area above the unit to deflect water snow and ice and based on that do I hear a vote for approval speak your names if you approve Eric says yes Ben says yes Martha says yes Hannah says yes Steve says yes so the application is approved thank you all and I will get get these recommendation sheets filled out and to Audra and then she can share those with you great thank you so Austin's narrative just the process we'll get you these recommendation forms and because there are some basically conditions that we would put in on the permit we won't issue the permit so we either get the signed forms back from you or you at least email your acknowledgement after you've seen them that you agree with what's been put in there okay but we should look at those to us pretty quick and then we'll get that out to you as soon as possible we'll email them to you um and so you can just email back yes that's good and then we'll be able to issue the permit okay great thank you you're welcome good thank you for participating and good luck with your project thank you all right I will drop off the call unless uh there are any other questions all right okay thank you thank you bye bye we can move on to the next project which is for five high school drive for the boat slide and bench do we have someone from the project to describe it for us hello uh both um Sean White and Noah Pollock are here to talk about this and um I thought Noah that you could describe the the boat shoot itself and um I could talk about the vegetation sure that sounds sounds good hi everybody I'm Noah Pollock I'm on the board of the friends of the new ski and I'm sitting in a car in East Burke so um the video would darkness so um we've been working um at this access site for several years um it's behind the high school it's uh the best access to the new ski to go from there down to Waterbury um and we've been doing it in honor of a former board member the late Bill Haynes who is a longtime teacher at the school um and a board member and an avid paddler um and so this is we're calling this the Bill Haynes Memorial River Access and um so over the years we've been taking it from just an informal you know access to something that's you know worthy of his legacy we built some stone steps there uh in 2017 and it's been a popular spot um folks have been sliding their boats down the side of the bank and um as a watershed group we'd like to try to protect water repairing vegetation so our idea is a kind of a little boat slide would encourage people to um not trample the vegetation and make it easier for folks to get into the get their canoes down to the water so this is a neat little partnership project with um the school taking advantage of the extra free time they have to do kind of hands-on projects working with a couple of teachers um so that's the shoot the bench is would be also a potential project for um the the students to work on over the winter um simple kind of wooden benches that would be anchored with these what's called helical anchors to keep them from flooding um and then there's also a the vegetation kind of repairing buffer part of it Sean you can talk about that uh okay so um at this access point uh as Noah said there have been um people uh walking up and down on the banks and often sliding boats and that has resulted in um some various areas that have started to erode in addition there's there's several places where they're you know if um if we were to have a ecologically healthy riparian area it would be vegetated and those areas aren't uh right around the the boat access itself that means sorry the stairs and where we would where the shoot would go and the um and then in addition to that there have been um some people camping right near that site um so sitting up tents and trampling vegetation and clearing uh areas there and uh in um we've been talking to the school about what their needs are and they feel that not only do we need to revegetate those cleared areas uh along the bank and in in the wooded uh areas right around that spot um but also maybe do uh in conjunction with that do a little bit of clearing along the bike path they're thinking that um uh by removing some of the um thicker shrubs that are in the understory that uh that you know people the fact that passerby could look into the woods from there would maybe discourage camping um so there it's sort of a you know clearing and revegetation combined um and we expect that we would um there'd be more vegetation than clearing so that the the vegetation there would be healthier and we are um are seeing this as you know ecological restoration as much as um you know maybe more than landscaping or um or clearing please let me know if anyone wants me to share this one normally I would I just I know we we're trying to maybe see each other's faces a little bit while we were talking do we have images of the benches or the uh the boat ramp thing if you have your packet there's a a sketch of the uh boat slide design and then there's a picture of the proposed bench does everyone see the boat slide are you gonna repair the steps yeah you know the river does its thing it wants to do so we would move some of the rocks just to put them back into place they've um you know they're better shape than they were a few years ago the lowest one did get moved slightly so yeah while we're doing it we'll kind of we'll just tweak that so it's it's better used and it's you know you have to be a little humble working along a river and know that the river is stronger than you with small stone so we'll we'll keep maintaining this as we have over the last few years working it's a good partnership with the with the school it's a good good project for the high school students to help out with I think that's great I think it's important not to create a hazard with the steps sure by the way in the boat slide design those two rails I would bevel the top edges of those just to prevent it from marking the boats that are being slid down it might be a good idea not only to bevel the top edges at the top and the bottom of the timbers but also bevel the inside edges to make it easier for a boat to slide smoothly down without damaging the boat or splintering the timbers yeah yeah I like it I think um the idea is having a little bit of tilt on it although it makes the notches a little challenging but um either yeah either cutting it with a bevel or just kind of rotating it and with the notches so it has the same effect of kind of a little cradle effect and it's like the like the cradle on a boat trailer right exactly and you know we'll we'll test it out with the school's canoes and see how they fit and you know if we have to get out some sander or cover it with something that protects the boat so we can definitely do that you know we want something that folks will use and do you have a picture of the proposed bench Meredith yeah so this is a bench design that I've used in the past with um kind of volunteers and interns I I like it because it's well it looks nice it's comfortable um and it's made out of entirely out of two by four which makes buying materials and cutting it pretty straightforward um because that whole area does flood um we would plan to anchor it with um these helical anchors and they'll also help keep them getting stolen but we could move it if we needed to by just unclipping it will that be located at the near the top or bottom of the boat wrap I think it'd be on the top and it'd be set back a bit um in ideas you know you can have a folks can go down and have a view of the river but we want it away so it doesn't get you like hit by ice um and also we're planting trees in that area too so it would be be kind of back kind of away from the river how far from the bike path it would be um probably about let's see there's a trail that goes down into the clearing and so our vision is kind of the edge of that clearing so it's probably about 25 feet in um kind of halfway between the bike path and the river I'd say thanks any committee members have any questions comments or suggestions about either the ramp or the bench what kind of wood are you going to use in the bench um we were planning to use either cedar or pressure treated uh timbers either either one we can either get you know the you know cedar from a good rich lumber um but we want something that's out you know can survive the elements I would prefer cedar to treated wood sure yeah we can do that um it's not really a design issue okay you know I do it is nicer to work with cedar I agree it's nicer to sit on too great any other comments questions or suggestions otherwise I can go through the uh few criteria that apply on this one again the evaluation criteria for all projects one proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project's located there's nothing specific regarding the landscaping although it's described in the revegetation plan Montpelier high school revegetation plan Bill Haynes river access and again that's it has general recommendations all of which seem to be fine at that site and again there's nothing more specific they they do have some suggested species and then again their species the friends of the Winooski routinely use in riparian restoration projects and are appropriate for the site unless anybody has anything more specific I think that probably sounds sufficient I agree and just so you know for the administrative permit for the rest other aspect of it we'll be asking them to provide us with a landscaping plan once they've actually decided on what species will be planted so that we'll have that in the file later but it's a it's a follow-up item because they will know what they're going to plan probably till next spring yes they need to come back or can that just be clarified as an addendum to this permit my plan was to have it be clarified as an addendum to the permit that they would file it with our office and we put it in the permit file it wouldn't have to go through additional approvals okay so based on that the proposed landscaping again with their general of description so far is acceptable location and appearance of all utilities mechanical equipment trash storage fencing fencing we'll call the bench in the boat ramp acceptable development shall be designed to respect views of the state house dome and again that's acceptable here you probably won't even be able to see it from anywhere but but the river itself or unless you're sitting on the bench or down by the river and then there's a lastly under landscaping screening and site furnishings site furnishings including fencing seating other types of site furniture visible from the street or side yard shall be considered within the context of the existing building or its site and its context and landscaping is not placed or designed in a manner that would obscure or undermine key architectural patterns or elements of any kind there's no fencing there there's no mechanical equipment again other than the boat ramp and green fencing such as hedges planted when narrative or hardy landscape species can be employed as effective buffers and screens and again their landscape plan seems to satisfy that so we'll call that acceptable and then there's a second set of recommendations projects that do not involve an historic building one says new development shall incorporate sustainable design and construction methods and materials compatible with historic materials that's acceptable and again the recommendation of cedar using cedar for the bench and then there's one other recommendation that would apply under materials new construction shall be considered to be compatible if the materials used possess a kind or type that are appropriate to the district material selected shall either fit the neighborhood context or reflect the nature of the use of the structure and materials may be selected for long-term performance and durability again the cedar for the bench is acceptable and then lastly there's a criteria accessory buildings and structures structures shall be located within either the side yard or rear yards shall not visually disrupt the streetscape or affect the integrity of existing building or the site which is acceptable and based on the recommendation for cedar for the bench and and all the other components of the plan when do I hear a motion to approve Eric moves and all in favor speak your name Eric then this is a yes Hannah says yes Steve says yes okay the application is approved perfect thank you all we we hope to invite you all to uh you know and opening some time in the spring um and maybe get you in a canoe go down the river try out the slide yourself try the bench or the bench okay well thank you thank you very much for participating and good luck with your project and can't wait to see it all right take care thank you we'll be in touch with the recommendation forms okay all right thanks Merida welcome thank you Sean thank you Noah next item on the agenda is to review the meeting minutes of September 21st does anyone have any questions about or comments about the the minutes uh I think all we just have you Steve and Eric who were there yes no you're right there was just the two of us and Liz so I guess we will have to table that until the next meeting when Liz shows up okay does anyone have anything else to add other than our next meeting is on November the second uh one comment I'd like to make is uh read uh Meredith memo on the uh work uh that the preservation commission is going to undertake in a guide uh for this uh and if you have any suggestions uh please let Meredith know if there's a sent you an email there's an invitation to an HPC meeting tomorrow if you can make it but comments tomorrow or anytime within the next couple of weeks on thoughts for the design review guidelines would be very very helpful especially because these are guidelines that the design review committee will be using to apply these new design review regulations that we've all been working with for the last month or so and they'll also be for you know for the applicants to be able to understand the design review regulations so any thoughts you have on on what you want to see in those guidelines or ways to to just help people understand the regulations would be great I have a quick thought Meredith that uh we ought to put a section in there on materials needed for an application yep that and something like that would probably be up at the beginning of the guidelines um as well as having that in the kind of smaller pamphlet booklet that we'll work on once we've got the guidelines done that's a good point anybody else have any other business no if not do I hear a motion to adjourn Eric moves adjournment I second it all in favor of adjournments speak your names Steve okay the meeting is adjourned thank you all thank you thanks Steve thanks Meredith thank you thank you Meredith thank you you're welcome have a good night everybody bye okay good night good night