Welcome everyone, we're just going to wait until we feel like most people have arrived and then we'll do our introductions. All right, I want to welcome everybody. My name is Martha Painter, I'm a research scholar at the Health Law Institute and it's my great pleasure to get to moderate today's session. Before we begin, I want to acknowledge that we are on the unceded and surrendered land of the Mi'kmaq here at Dalhousie University where the Health Law Institute is located and I'll let Alex do their own land acknowledgement for where they are. This is the first of the health law seminars for 2022. Our theme is flourishing recovery with justice and equity and I want to let everyone know that the session today is being recorded. Alex will speak for about 40 minutes and then we'll have questions for about 20 minutes. You can type your questions into the Q&A into the chat and we'll respond to them that way. There is live captioning available, you should see the link to that in the chat. And now I just want to introduce Dr. Alexander McClelland who is an assistant professor at the Institute of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Carleton University. From 2019 to 2020, he was a banting postdoctoral fellow at the University of Ottawa in the Department of Criminology. His work focuses on the intersection of life, law and disease where he has developed a range of collaborative and interdisciplinary projects to address issues of criminalization, sexual autonomy, surveillance, drug liberation, and the construction of knowledge on HIV. He is a member of the HIV Justice Network Global Advisory Panel. We are so pleased to have you here today, Alex, and I'll give you the floor now. Thank you so much, Martha, for the generous introduction. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and thank you, Adelina, and thank you everyone at the Healthline Institute at Dalhousie. I'm coming to you from the unceded traditional territory of Algonquin in Ottawa. And I am going to talk to you today about some of my work in relation to policing pandemics. So what I'm going to do is share my screen. I'm not a giant PowerPoint person, but I made a fancy PowerPoint for you today. So hopefully it works. Bear with me. That should hopefully you're just seeing the slide. And so I'm going to talk to you today about policing pandemics and some of my diverse work in relation to that. Just a little overview of what I plan on talking about today.  I wanted to just briefly kind of define what I mean by policing. For policing scholars, policing means a very specific thing. For criminologists, policing might be understood more broadly. I'll define it for what I mean. Then I wanted to tell three stories. One, looking to the past from how people responded, how Canada as an early state, early colonial nation state responded to syphilis, the syphilis pandemic or epidemic, how we responded to HIV and then look today for some kind of anecdotes on how we responded to COVID. And when doing this, I want to be really clear that I'm not saying there's any commonalities or similarities between the infections themselves. I'm really looking at how we have responded using forms of police and enforcement and law to these very different and divergent diseases. And from these three stories, I am hoping to share five kind of general lessons that I think are just interesting for us to move forward in understanding policing and pandemics. So that's a little bit of an overview today. So I am a public and critical criminologist. Primarily I do qualitative research and I was actually asked if I could share a specific paper today on my research in relation to policing pandemics. I don't have one specific paper, but throughout I'm going to do a bit of shameless self-promotion, apologies, but sharing some of my diverse work in relation to this issue so that you can read it, share it, find it, that kind of thing. And so there's not one unique paper about this issue that I've written about, but a whole bunch of different things. And so my dissertation research, which I completed at Concordia University, was looking at the lived experiences of people who were criminalized due to allegedly not disclosing their HIV status to sex partners. I examined their firsthand experiences, people who had been criminalized, people who are registered as sex offenders, people who only had their stories told through a dichotomous narrative of victim and perpetrator and whose stories and narratives were often erased and only the dominant understandings of their experience were told through the narratives of the criminal justice system and police and courts and media. And so I worked on documenting people's experiences themselves to highlight the nuances and complexities of their experience. Out of that work, when COVID hit, I started to be really concerned because all of the people I talked to in my HIV criminalization research actually had felt victimized by the criminal justice system themselves. They often didn't feel like they had done anything wrong. And that their experience was misunderstood, that their understanding of risk was hyped up and uneducated police officers and courts who didn't understand how HIV worked amplified risk due to fear and hysteria and ignorance. And so when COVID came about, I started being quite concerned that ongoing racist patterns of policing and the ways in which marginalized and people who are made to have been socially marginalized and oppressed are always targets of police, specifically in the context of one we've seen in the past with HIV and with syphilis. In the context of COVID, I became quite concerned that the same thing would happen. And so I started this project with my colleague, the Policing the Pandemic Mapping Project, where we started taking media sources and placing them on a map across Canada so we could kind of understand how and why or how policing of COVID was manifesting and how forms of enforcement were operating. The project ended last year. We captured a number of different waves of the pandemic or no, sorry, the project ended this year. Or no, last year, it's 2022. Jesus, time moves weirdly. But yes, we ended in 2021, we did one full year of the pandemic, and then it became actually really, really challenging to get accurate information on forms of enforcement. It was not really in the media anymore, and governments themselves were not really collecting accurate information in the way that we could kind of do anything with. So we've transformed the project slightly, but there still is a really solid record in here across Canada of the first year of COVID enforcement. Pretty confident we've documented most instances. And there's also, it's mapped onto this map, and then we also have a database. Part of the project really was not to question public health regulations necessarily. We are, I am pro public health, I am pro us following appropriate public health guidance that's grounded in human rights. But I wanted to put into question the role of police in this context and how police have been placed as central actors in responding to the pandemic. And so part of what we did was we really did a lot of public criminology work. We were in the media tons. We calculated the amounts of fines to highlight the disproportionate impact on poor people who were being fined and did a lot of work around that. And so I'm coming to you with some of that experience. I'm a critical criminologist, a qualitative researcher. I do some historical work and do lots of public criminology on this issue. So what do I mean by policing? So I use a really broad, when talking at policing of the pandemic, I use a really broad term, a really broad definition inspired by the work of JP Broder, who looks at the police assemblage and how police is a plural enterprise in which many different agents from different public institutions and also the private sector can collaborate together. Broder also outlines that policing can be mobilized as a verb, sorry, and that there also can be a whole range of various different specialized administrative policing agencies. So we're talking not just about the police in uniforms or police departments here. I'm talking about policing in a very broad sense in which a range of different actors are employed or together to work in concert, sometimes collaboratively, sometimes not. And so this might involve public health actors, might involve people in the media, might involve community based organization, institution, actors, a whole bunch of different range of actors and also private security guards in the context of COVID. For example, in Manitoba, it's a private security force who is enforcing COVID. And also in many places, for example, in COVID as well, people, bylaw officers have been tasked with enforcing COVID. So bylaw officers are policing as well. They police aspects of the street and public space already. But so just really using a broad notion of policing and understanding this policing, policing assemblage that Broder talks about. So that's just kind of to define policing. I'm going to tell three stories now. Hopefully, I can kind of power through them. I love all the details of these stories. I won't touch on all of them. But I just want to kind of get them to give us or use these stories to give us some context for the lessons that I want to bring forth. And I find it really helpful. It's a critical criminology approach to look to the past, doing a history of the present, look to the past to understand our present context. And so I find looking to the past often really helpful for understanding where we're at and where we ended up being and why police are so central in disease control responses. So the first story I want to tell is about an 18 year old named Eleanor Patterson, who was detained in Fort Saskatchewan goal, which is still Fort Saskatchewan institution in Alberta. And she was detained, one of the first people detained under the new Alberta Venereal Disease Prevention Act for having syphilis and gonorrhea. And this was around the time when there was a massive and growing syphilis epidemic across Canada. Over 66,000 cases in the Army were documented. And in 1916 and in 1917, at Toronto General Hospital, there was around 13% of all patients had an active case of syphilis. And some statisticians at the time extrapolated that number to be the whole city of Toronto had a rate of syphilis around that high. And so there was a massive syphilis epidemic happening across Canada. This was a disease that people did not talk about and were very terrified about talking about. There was a lot of stigma around it. And so there was a whole kind of coordinated range of legislation that was enacted in the same time. So this one, this one, this new venereal disease legislation that was passed that helped incarcerate and detain Eleanor Patterson as part of a coordinated response across Canada that also included the introduction of a provision in the criminal code, which ended up being repealed in 1985. But there was a whole bunch of other provinces that enacted similar legislation. And this legislation allowed for the forced force testing, detention if tested positive, and incarceration in jail until you and forced treatment until you were, until you were cured. And interestingly here, this is a complaint form, which is what a judge would fill out for whoever's charges they had to, for whatever charge you had in court. And so the judge at the time, who is, was Emily Murphy, who was a famous feminist part of the famous five. The judge at the time, instead of writing, say, for example, was charged, was did a burglary or an assault or whatever, the judge at the time indicated that the offense was just that Eleanor Patterson was infected with venereal disease under the venereal disease legislation. And this is quite interesting because it conflated viral infection with criminality. And she crossed out what the charge was and said just was infected with, which is quite interesting to think about and the consequences of that codifying infection into criminal law and into a common law criminal law proceeding. And so what was also interesting at the time was the project of public health itself was a very new invention. And so there was very limited public health infrastructure, there weren't clinics, there was a small number of hospitals, and people were very terrified of venereal disease. So what they did was rely on criminal justice infrastructure. This was the early days of public health. And the initial reliance was on courts and jails to address criminal, to address the venereal disease. And so this law was instituted, which enabled the incarceration of people who tested positive for venereal disease to keep them away from the rest of society. Just really quickly, this is just kind of an interesting side note about this case of Eleanor Patterson. This is actually a letter she wrote while incarcerated from from jail while she was incarcerated. And you can see at the top that it's kind of reprinted letter by Emily Murphy, who states that she was committed for having syphilis in gonorrhea and classes at her name. But interestingly, because she was incarcerated, this letter outlines that she had, she suffered a lot of social isolation because of being incarcerated. And being held in prison meant that she felt that she was facing a form of impunishment for her behavior, as well as a coercive public health measure. So her incarceration was not solely about curing her of venereal disease, it was also about remedying the morally repugnant behavior that led her to her infection in the first place. They were targeting young, vagrant women who were often single, often sex workers. And so there was the act of incarcerating someone within the criminal justice infrastructure enabled a dichotomous narrative of victim and perpetrator and moral wrongdoing. And so this was also just a really interesting case, because if you're a lawyer, it betrayed habeas corpus, this act of detaining someone without a trial against their will, where there was no trial or actually no real charge, betrayed habeas corpus. And this is a letter that Emily Murphy wrote, where she was saying that this is a test case, it was kind of sketchy, she was going to see if she could move forward with it, and defense lawyers at the time contested these cases, often believing that the men were equally as responsible for their infections. And one stated in court, it takes two to have sexual intercourse, are you a decent man to the man who was complaining against a woman who was going to be incarcerated. Many of the women who were incarcerated were, as I mentioned, sex workers, single working class and indigenous women, they were often targets. And Emily Murphy at the time, who was recorded herself of charging in one year 75 cases and 66 cases the next year. And so in a local, and what happened was the local prison population tripled. So as a result of this among women, as a result of this legislation, prior to this legislation, there was around 20 people, 20 women in the Fort Saskatchewan goal. And after this legislation, you can see the number skyrocketed. And so it actually became a concern, because there was no other place to put these women. And Emily Murphy started questioning her approach of incarcerating women for venereal disease and publicly came out and said, there's no place of refuge for girls over 16 to have to have who have made the fatal mistake, their mistake of getting venereal disease, accept the jail. And she actually started calling for another institution because the jail wasn't working. Women were still getting infected, women were still getting incarcerated. And it wasn't successful. Indeed, the only thing that abated the massive syphilis epidemic was the introduction of penicillin in 1943. And so this incarcerating approach was actually a complete failure and ended up stopping and the introduction of effective, effective medication and prevention as a result was the thing that addressed or ended the syphilis epidemic in Canada, not incarcerating and targeting young women. But this just gives us insight into one of kind of the first proto responses to one of Canada's first epidemics or pandemics and health challenges and how people responded. So I'll move on quickly to the second case study, the second story that I want to tell. And so this is a story of a tear gas case. So fast forward to 1987. And so George Smith, a founding member of AIDS Action Now, a group that I've been part of for quite a number of years, Canada's answer to ACT UP, which was formed actually in 1987, wrote an article in a queer periodical where he stated, it looks as though the police in Toronto will continue to shape the politics of AIDS in this city for some time to come. And what he was referring to was an incident where Toronto police services were responding to a complaint of a man who looked visibly ill and was gay, who was wandering around Toronto's east gay village and making a public disturbance. It was concerned, people were concerned that he had AIDS and had dementia. This was at a time before available antiretroviral medications and where there was a lot of AIDS related panic. And so police went to his house, knocked on his door, he was home alone, and they shot tear gas into his house and tied him to a gurney and arrested him under mental health legislation in the province and detained him. The case got a lot of public outcry. There was a lot of constant contestation about calling on police about misuse of force, police perpetrating disease panic, lack of police training on health issues, and one psychiatrist from the Toronto General Hospital wrote a letter to the Toronto Star, tear gas, on AIDS victim unjustified and said the excessive response by the police was a result of uninformed fear of AIDS contagion. At the time, Toronto police services responded and apologized stating that they would work on education programs for their officers. And what was interesting is a few years later, two years later after the tear gas case, so George Smith who said police will come to govern responses to AIDS for some years to come. He was correct because some years, only two years later we started to see an influx of HIV related complaints to police where people started to call the police because they were, had potentially been exposed to HIV by their sex partner or someone had not allegedly told them they had HIV. And since then, Canada has become one of the leading countries in the world for criminalizing HIV, non-disclosure, transmission or exposure with upwards of 200 criminal cases relating to primarily non-disclosure.  And so this tear gas case just kind of gives us an insight into how police respond at times of disease panic where kind of solutions aren't really established yet. So quickly, fast forward 30 years later in 2017, so that was 1987. In 2017, Toronto Police Services are videoed tasering a black man in downtown Toronto in the middle of the street. He had allegedly kicked a car and spit at police. Police were videoed saying to onlookers, watch out, he's going to spit in your face, you're going to get AIDS. They again faced public critique for excessive use of force, for lack of knowledge on HIV, because you cannot get HIV from spitting, you can't get AIDS from spitting, you can't get, that's not AIDS is a virus that's transmittable at all that way. HIV is the virus and HIV is not transmittable through saliva. And so Toronto Police Services came out and apologised, said they would institute sensitivity training for police officers. And just as a reminder, there are over 65,000 people living with HIV in Canada. And so we can think about this story of the tear gas case and the apology and the sensitivity training and look at today or a couple of years ago and think about whether institutions like policing can change and whether such kind of training actually does anything. That's kind of an interesting reflection over time. And so that is the tear gas case. I'll tell one other story, which is a group of little stories, and then I'm going to get into some lessons. So the next one is a few little kind of anecdotes. It's not one specific story, but a few little anecdotes about homelessness and COVID. And so the first one is about Ontario's Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act, which introduced a whole range of rules on physical distancing, on self-isolation, on non-essential businesses. It also enabled legalized carding, which was quite controversial, asking anyone for ID in public. And it also enabled for a short period of time the sharing of all COVID positive data with police. And so this is the provision that allowed for that sharing of data. And this happened in April of 2020. So the order allowed for the sharing of an individual's name, address, birth date, and whether they had a COVID positive test. And it specified specific, specified custodians, excuse me, such as laboratory public health personnel. And they were able to share data, sorry, with police officers and staff, firefighters and staff, paramedics and communicable disease communications officers, through a specified portal to get access to this data. The interesting thing was that it didn't indicate the date of COVID infection. So the database ended up housing people's names and information even after they had cleared COVID and were no longer infectious. And the other thing that was quite confusing about the purpose of this, or the purpose of this portal was quite confusing, is because everyone should be engaging with PPE and assuming that anyone they encounter has COVID positive. So it's quite confusing why this provision was enacted. And the same month that it was enacted, there was this thing that happened where across the TTC, this message got displayed to all, which is Toronto Transit Commission, Toronto's public transportation system. This message got relayed to broadcast to all TTC bus drivers, subway drivers and anyone working for the TTC at the time, all across Toronto, stating all runs in any area of Jane and Alliance, please do not pick up female Black 40 plus years identifying information about her clothes, person is homeless and confirmed to be positive of COVID. In addition, note that through the portal, it shared data with Ontario Provincial Police, 15 municipal police services and nine First Nation police services in Canada. It is not known where this information came from or if it came from that portal. TTC apologized, but it happened at the same time of the launching of the portal and the TTC apologized that they wouldn't do that again, wouldn't share public information about someone and identifying information and their COVID status. And the emergency management and civil protection rule was actually repealed shortly after because there was much public outcry, a public letter signed by many social justice organizations in Toronto, including Ontario Coalition Against Poverty and Black Lives Matter, and then there was a legal action launched by the Black Legal Action Clinic, Aboriginal Legal Services and HIV Legal Clinic of Ontario, among others. And so the Ontario government backed down. It was revealed shortly after that there was massive abuse of the use of the portal and there was over 95,000 searches in the database while it was active, much of it people looking up, police looking up people in their neighbourhoods, police looking up ex-girlfriends, police looking up relatives, that kind of thing. And but one of the first people we see attacked by this betrayal of privacy is a black homeless woman who wanted to get on the subway to get somewhere. And remember this is prior to having access to vaccines because this was last year or the beginning of the pandemic. And so what we see next is even more attacks on homeless people. Massive fines enacted across Canada and many people, many homeless people targeted by those fines and many homeless people targeted for non-physically distancing and were issued tickets of almost $1,000 all across Ontario, across Montreal and other places as well. And then what we all have come to see these images of and all know very well, probably is the ways in which then homeless people who sought refuge and protection from congregate settings, from services they were barred from, from congregate settings where there was not appropriate PPE and people taking their safety into their own hands in the best way they know how, built houses in public spaces and those public, those houses were destroyed by militarized police forces in extremely violent and harsh ways which were on display publicly and millions of dollars were spent to displace people who often ended up in a park just down the street. And so here's another image of that. And so three kind of different divergence stories. We have the story of Eleanor Patterson who was incarcerated because she was infected with venereal disease, venereal disease, sexually transmitted infection of syphilis and gonorrhea. Often one thing I didn't know is women who were incarcerated at that time were forced, were put under forced treatment. Forced treatment at the time was arsenic injections and a mercury rub for the wounds. So often people would go into toxic shock and die as a result of the forced medication. But we have that experience which was enabled as a potentially sketchy but legal process which betrayed habeas corpus to detain people who were considered infectious and dangerous. We have the tear gassing of a gay man who was experiencing dementia because of police hysteria who trumped up and amplified the risk associated with engaging with him. And we have the breaching of privacy and the sharing of public health information or actually not public health information. We have the sharing of sensitive private health information publicly where healthcare information gets translated into other realms to act in the service of enforcement. And we also see through all of this that socially marginalized people come to be the targets of these responses. And so some lessons just kind of sketching the surface of some things that I think we can reflect on in relation to these three different experiences are during times of disease crisis decision makers and policy actors will rely on policing and criminal justice infrastructure. And indeed the two have been intertwined since the inception of public health. The inception of public health is deeply rooted in and dependent on the criminal justice system for its workings and has been since its inception. So I think that's something to note and think through when we think of making distinctions between public health and the criminal justice system. If we look to the past and understand Eleanor Patterson's case the criminal justice system and public health infrastructure were one in the same. And so this is a fortunate this lesson is just an unfortunate reality. And one of the consequences is that relying on the criminal justice system infrastructure and forms of policing is that we are we employ the logic of that institution. A logic of wrongdoing a punitive and carceral logic which is often caught up with notions of morality and notions of wrongdoing. And it falls into this individualizing victim versus perpetrator logic of the criminal justice system to respond to something that is a collective and community phenomenon not an individualizing phenomenon. And so that's kind of one of the consequences of of this unfortunate outcome for this unfortunate reality for lesson one. Lesson two is that pandemic policing blurs what we think are institutional lines between police actual police and public health actors. And in this line blurring there's a mission creek that takes place and we see the policeification of social problems of social of social issues. So police come to be the primary and sole actor for addressing a whole range of social problems that should be held by other people. One of the consequences of this is that actual police are trained police and uniforms are trained to respond to social problems with force force being a word for violence and actual police have lay knowledge of infection transmission disease containment how infections and transmission transmission of diseases works yet they are deputized as one of the front front line of the response. Private and health sensitive health information can be translated across institutions once there's this blurring of the lines and used for other purposes for them for what it was collected or intended such as enforcement. So information about someone's health care can be taken out of context and used to enact enforcement or against them and there's very big consequences for that we see that in the criminalization of HIV where people's medical files are subpoenaed and used in court against them and so that puts people in a precarious context with their health care providers and when a public health risk or a health related risk comes to be translated into by police into a risk the that risk can be amplified it can be heightened it can be misunderstood it can be lead lead to greater violence like we see with the tasering and the tear gassing of those two individuals they received more intense responses from police because there was a risk that they also had a disease as well as being just a general nuisance or causing a problem in public. And in the context of COVID we've had a lot of talk about togetherness working together across Canada and empathy and how we need to all be working together in this but policing pandemics actually works across purposes for a strong collective response that's rooted in ethics or care and ethics of care or any but how best practices related to public health so there's just kind of conflicting policy goals that happen here. And so to share a few things that I've written in relation to this with wonderful colleagues if you're interested in the sharing of police sharing of data with police we've developed paper on alternative to sharing COVID positive data with law enforcement recommendations for stakeholders one of them if you work in public health is to decline to share that information do not and not make it possible for police to have access to it. Lesson number three is despite many appeals by policy actors for pandemic responses to be evidence-based we see here lots and lots of needs for everything to be evidence-based punitive and policing responses such as fines or incarceration lack any evidence in their effectiveness to address infection transmission so we see the rollout of fine after fine after fine in the context of COVID there is no evidence space that those will lead to people changing their behavior and the evidence that does exist in relation to responding that way with punitive punitive measures is that those result in forms of violence and social marginalization. So the only thing that had an impact on the syphilis pandemic was not incarceration it was the development of penicillin HIV itself has only been exacerbated by forms of criminalization and public health objectives have been undermined because people are have created there's a context of fear and uncertainty where people do not go to access services because services are understood as an arm of the criminal justice system that part of that police assemblage where they will report on people if they tell them things that they're not supposed to and strong conclusive evidence to support the deterrent effectiveness is fine of fines is also lacking in many contexts if you look at drunk driving for example or speeding there's very there's evidence that shows the higher the fine high raising fines higher doesn't stop people from speeding or drunk driving and that fines in general don't deter that behavior and and so it is not we don't have and we have no data on the use of fines in the context of a pandemic to deter people from doing things we don't want them to do or to encourage people to do things we don't want to do so there is not an evidence base here about these responses such responses are based on retribution they are based on forms of violent deterrence and they are only evidenced at promoting stigma forms of discrimination creating contexts of fear and uncertainty and precarity and lack of security and violence and again conflicting policy goals so here's two little pieces out of the policing the pandemic project we did some public criminology work highlighting the lack of evidence base on fines and that fines are will only result in a burden on socially marginalized people and poor people who don't have the ability to pay thousand dollar fines there's also a lot of work happening contesting the constitutionality of the use of fines in the context of COVID but here we've developed a report outlining the lack of evidence base and conflicting policy goals in relation to the use of fines in the context of COVID and also here's a paper in the Canadian Journal of Public Health outlining with a number of wonderful colleagues who primarily work on HIV who have translated their work on human human rights based HIV responses to the context of COVID and we outlined some general principles on grounding COVID responses in human rights lesson four and then there's one more lesson after this is that socially marginalized people will bear the brunt of punitive responses existing in an equal patterns of enforcement will just be reproduced people who are already considered risky by public health will that risk will be amplified in the context of pandemics and they will be targets of increased surveillance and increased punitive responses and here is an important it is always important for us to ask or important for me to ask and this is the question I always ask and my students to ask and I get communities I work with to ask when we're talking about public health we have to ask the question who's health and who is the public and often for example in the context of the syphilis epidemic Eleanor Patterson was not the public she was considered a risk that the public had to be protected from that man who is tear gas was not considered a member of the public he was considered a risk that the public had to be protected from and contained under violent circumstances in the use of tear gas homeless people are not considered the public and public health when we look at how we are responding to encampments and how that woman was barred from accessing the TTC because of fears around infection and so always ask in the context of public health responses who is the public and whose health and socially marginalized people are never considered the public and public health and in order to reorient our thinking public health has to do really big work internally to figure itself out to stop paternalizing logic stop targeting specific communities the ways that it does and start working to address responses that value all members of society and so we I wrote a paper with a couple friends of mine looking at colleagues of mine at the American Journal of Public Health looking at a research agenda for researchers who in public health looking at examining HIV and COVID and criminalization and we laid out a short research plan that said that research in this area must attend to issues of racism and the racist patterns of policing and public health surveillance but that we also might must really understand do more work to understand how police and public health operate and work together a lot of it's a black box we don't know how these things happen and we as social scientists need to do a better job of understanding how these surveillance systems work how the work of public health practitioners and police happens in concert and what are the consequences so that we can put that stuff into question lastly my last question here and I'm getting up to the 40-ish minute mark so we'll wrap up in time lesson number five there have always been resistance and debate to the use of police and the application of punitive responses to respond to communicable diseases this is not a given while it is unfortunately police have been cemented as central actors in responses to pandemics there is constant debate and it is constantly contested and we need to keep that up and so if we look back to the 1919 and 1920 and 1920 the architect of putting women in jail Emily Murphy who worked a lot with Gordon Bates who was a public health doctor who was actually one of the founding members of the Canadian Public Health Association and the Canadian Journal of Public Health who also worked on with this on her they became concerned about putting women in jail after a while for syphilis and actually outlined that there was a disproportionate incarceration rate of women between women and men in relation to these into in in this approach and they themselves thought it was causing more harm than good and started to work on ways to move forward and also interestingly the criminal code provision which they helped introduce which criminalized reckless transmission of syphilis and gonorrhea and herpes was repealed from the criminal code in 1985 because at the time politicians thought there should be no criminal code provision around a public health issue there should be something that's dealt with not by the criminal courts but by public health actors um also in relation to HIV criminalization this uh this issue is very much in flux and in reform Jodi Wilson-Weibald former minister of health outlined in 2017 that there was a concern of the over-criminalization of HIV and feds and some provinces have now changed their response and will not prosecute if someone is virally suppressed or undetectable that has created concerns of course for who is people who are not virally suppressed can still be subject to the criminal law and that has created a dividing line and often people who aren't on medication are more socially made to be more socially marginalized people who have been released from prison people who are non-status people who don't have a house to live in or a fixed address often may not be on medication and so they could be in a more precarious state as a result of that but what these reforms have done is dramatically reduce the people the amount of people that are entering the criminal justice system in relation to complaints due to HIV alleged HIV non-disclosure and so that has happened and that has been due to massive advocacy on behalf of hundreds of people across Canada legal experts human rights experts people living with HIV have been relentless in their pushing of the government to change that so that has been constantly contested um the law enabling COVID positive data sharing was rescinded after much public outcry and a legal challenge and there's been a widespread debate around the policing of hopelessness in the context of COVID and so these are not given these are things that are constantly contested and I think that's really important for us to keep pushing it for someone who thinks that the role of police in the pan in a pandemic or in managing disease needs to be put further into question so we need to keep doing all of this work finally I just wanted to show these two pictures this is a picture from a venereal disease hall of fame of women who are infected with venereal disease during world war two put up in a military barracks in Canada and this next word for so soldiers would not have sex with those women I guess and then this is a picture from a couple years ago from Vancouver of a police manhunt for this man David Hind who was living with HIV who was alleged to not be taking his HIV medications and the consequence from public health actors was to call the police put his name in the media and enact a full-on manhunt to search for him and harkens back to kind of very similar approaches from back in the day of publicly shaming and putting people's headshots out into the world so there we have five lessons on policing pandemics three kind of divergent stories and I would be happy to have a conversation and talk more with you about all of this that's how you can reach me thank you so much Alex what a fascinating and infuriating presentation I wanted to get us started you leave on the note of the the policing of COVID positive people and just two days ago there was a poll because we are now in the vaccine era right and there was a poll showing that 27% of respondents in Canada believe that people who remain unvaccinated should be jailed right vis-a-vis the outbreaks in jails vis-a-vis the problems we've had with encouraging vaccination in jails because of the abuse that prisoners have experienced so where do you see in the vaccine era the policing of COVID how is it going to be manifesting it's quite interesting I don't have a solid answer for you on this but one of the things that I have been in just kind of referencing or thinking back to HIV one of the things that's quite interesting is now we have injectable prep which is something that's been coming for quite some time which is injectable prophylactics which can prevent HIV transmission if someone has sex with someone else and injectable prep is being treated on prisoners so they're in the US and has been given to prisoners in the US against their will where they are injected every month with it and so that they just won't get whether it doesn't address any of the social social context of why someone might be at risk for HIV but it just stops them from getting it against their will and I the the anti-vax situation is so complicated I have no answers for anyone on that but I think that I think we have to think always about bodily autonomy and human rights and putting people in jail in this context is never the right solution specifically when jails are jails or prisons are super hubs of infection and so that's obviously the wrong social response but interestingly if you do it's all about how you do also ask questions so for example if I go around without explaining all of my research on the harms of criminalizing people due to HIV if I go around and I say oh should someone who doesn't tell their sex partner that they have HIV go to jail yes or no and I don't don't provide any other context people have done that research it's shoddy research but they've done that research and we get horrible statistics that say a majority of the general population thinks people living with HIV should go to jail what you don't hear are that women living with HIV who are sexually assaulted by their partners are the ones who end up and who didn't use a condom are the ones who end up in jail and are the ones who end up registered as sex offenders you don't hear the ways in which those people when they're incarcerated are assaulted on a daily basis by the rest of the prison population under the watch of guards because the guards share their health information with everyone in the prison against the law and what you don't hear is about is all of the various ways in which people actually tried to protect their sex partner and do the right thing but that was taken out of context or the nuance was erased because once they entered the criminal justice system you enter this dichotomous logic of victim and perpetrator there's no room for any nuance so even when a person had told their partner if their partner went to the police that partner was believed over the HIV positive person and so um entering anything into the realm of should this be a criminal justice system issue erases any complexity it's a giant hammer that just flattens any complexity or nuance to these issues where often we need much more complex um empathetic um and empathetic supports for people to understand where they're at and what they're doing so doesn't answer that question but it gives you some context as to why I can't answer that question it's a great answer um and kind of following on that uh Constance Dr. Constance McIntosh from the Institute has asked do you think that they defund the police slash retask the police movement might change the story going forward and I don't know Alex if you're familiar but we just last week had um the defining defunding the police report launched here in Halifax so it's really top of everyone's minds um and a great read if you haven't had a chance to read it yet so I'll let you respond to Constance yeah thank you Constance really wonderful report I have not read all of it it's quite long but congrats to Elle Jones and all the people who are leading that report and excellent excellent work and um uh one of the things I would like people to consider who are working in the defund the police movement is to um not default to uh just like oh something's a public health issue we should just make this a public this should no longer be under the purview of police one of the things I try and talk about is the porous and intertwining nature of social institutions and uh that um uh for example just relying on social workers or just relying on nurses isn't going to solve your problem because public health nurses and public health departments have acted like police and are a form of police um and so defunding the police will end a certain forms of violence in society but um uh could result in a diversification of uh of problems for the ways in which we deal with other social issues so I think there needs to be a broader think around the within the defund the police movement to defund carceral and coercive institutions which result in oppression and so if you're someone living with hiv or um uh you'll know that public health institutions often don't have your back they treat you like you are essentially parapathological on the verge of committing a crime at any time you're under suspicion and under surveillance and essentially act as a form of police over your life and so um defunding the police will do one thing but it could bolster and give more power to institutions uh that already act in a policing way using the logic of the criminal justice system even further so wonderful amazing work just needs to be extended to look at other social institutions as a nurse I really appreciate that response and agree with you very strongly the next question is do you have any comments on the lack slash underfunding of public health officers that is usually four to six years training and assessment slash response throughout the course of the pandemic um so yeah I guess the other young asks that about our funding of public health yeah I mean I think I I'm quite concerned about public health uh the way in which public health I mean you know public health the the ways in which public health operates is different in every province highly decentralized in Ontario we have 34 different health units each health unit is governed by one specific medical officer of health whose essential essentially whatever that medical officer of health states can become law and the um the oversight in relation to what they say um is quite limited uh it's criminal law for example you have a court you might have a judge and maybe even a jury um in uh and there's evidentiary requirements and certain rules of evidence that you have to follow in the context of uh public health legislation it's really the word of the of the um medical officer of health that is law and there's less the bar is lower for evidentiary requirements and there's less oversight there's no jury or anything um and often there's no sunset clause so these uh public health orders can just it be issued forever and don't go away um depending on which province you're in and uh can cause a lot of harm in people's lives so actually um I'm not sure if more funding of that same process that same that same approach would work I think maybe a rethinking of that approach needs to happen for example um Richard Shabis who uh is uh no longer with us but he was working as a medical officer of health in Ontario up until just a number of years ago and had been since the 1990s and in 1989 he called for the full on quarantine of people living with HIV and he when he was the medical officer of health of Toronto and he publicly called for HIV to be labeled a virulent disease which would mandate all people living with HIV to be quarantined there was the one of the largest AIDS action now demonstrations to counter his calls happened um he was actually uh they called for him to resign he didn't resign he was just moved to Prince Edward County and continued to operate as a medical officer of health in the province for many many years um and so uh when we're dealing with one specific person's point of view and with that point person's point of view is uh it doesn't have a lot of oversight or is not able to be contested because what they say is the law that's a problem so I think we need to rethink not more funding necessarily but rethink approaches to how we address public health issues sort of related to that in in terms of uh uh tools of public health Sean Harmon who's also from the institute asks it's incredible that they could achieve any sort of effective data sharing and a common or central portal relating to the COVID data when we cannot even efficiently or effectively share vaccine status data across health platforms in routine settings many of us have been calling for a national vaccine registry linked to electronic health records so relevant epidemiologic data can be brought to bear in decision making and treatment based on your research what are the dangers of such a tool and do they outweigh the benefits how do we avoid its misuse in the ways that you have described um yeah I think there is like there's lots of benefits to data sharing um but I would ensure that any data like that cannot be shared with police so you make it interoperable with police databases and you have strong protocols about how that information will will not be shared for example uh as evidence in a criminal trial um that people would resist its its uh seizure or subpoena if it was going to be and that there was no access to it for police agencies and that's what we wrote about in that article I shared we kind of have six potential alternative steps and kind of proposed ways forward and I would adopt those okay this is probably going to be our last question uh Alicia Landers asks how would you reconcile the constitutional notion of infringing on individual rights for the purpose of protecting public health while also considering the detrimental effects that these infringements may have on society as a whole where should the line be drawn yeah this is a foundational debate in public health um we must uh we must um it is justified to suspend certain individual rights for the greater good and this is often the thing that I get caught up against is this logic that underwrites a lot of public health practices oh we don't have to ask anyone for their consent to share their data because sharing their data is the is in the benefit of public health so that outweighs that person's individual rights um we and this is happening right now in in many different ways but in the context of molecular HIV surveillance which is a whole other thing I don't need to get into but um it's a it's a disease surveillance um uh approach which is happening in BC in Quebec where people's uh people's HIV related information is shared uh secondarily out of a care context for public health purposes without people's consent and it's used to surveil people create create uh understand clusters of infection and risk networks and actually then target interventions at people who are labeled as risky and this is all information collected at a health in a healthcare setting and then repurposed for uh surveillance and um public health practitioners justify this use of repurposing without consent because of um the public good and so one of the things I have been working for working on is uh we have to again reconsider who is the public in public health is the portrayal of people living with HIV's rights beneficial to the public if we see the public as public health is creating a sense of precarity and lack of safety and security for a whole sector of society beneficial to the public if those people are they are the public they're taxpayers so what does that do we need to re we need new models of thinking through ethics and public health because the current ones are no longer working specifically in the ways in which big data can mean that all these data sets can be shared more widely we need a new way of thinking about ethics and making ethical decisions in the context of public health because that justification no longer works and it's not an argument that sells for anybody for me anyways if you view certain people as risks that need to be managed and not as autonomous actors with dignity that we need to care for and figure out what the issue is if you employ a paternalizing logic that people are objects of risk that you need to intervene in and manage um then that's not going to work it's not working and what it does is create forms of violence othering surveillance lack of precarity and lack of trust people do not want to engage with public health institutions because they are not considered the public and public health they are treated as other and so in order to actually figure out in a response that engages everyone we need to rethink the logic that underwrites public health thank you that's a fantastic way to close really strong really glad you could join us alex incredible work that you're doing for everyone who's on the zoom this session was recorded so if you didn't quite transcribe verbatim alex's great quotations you can do so later um and i want to invite you all to join us um for our our next seminar it's going to be on february 11 it's marina morrow who will be speaking about realizing human rights and social justice in mental health um a lot of crossover there with what alex has been talking about thank you all so much um yeah thank you martha so great to talk to you and thanks everyone at the health law institute


Welcome to the FACE CTS Learning Series, Chapter 2, Environment Setup and Installation on CentOS 7 and Windows 10. Video 5, Prerequisite Setup on Windows 10. In this video, we will download, install, and configure prerequisites for the installation of the CTS, launch of the CTS, and testing of FACE UOCs within the CTS. We are using Windows 10 as our operating system, running on a virtual box VM in this video. If Windows 10 is not the installation operating system of choice, results and directions may vary. Using VMware, another virtual container, or installing the CTS natively on Windows will work as well, but will not be covered in this video. We downloaded a Windows 10 ISO file from the official Microsoft Media Creation tool, and installed it onto our virtual machine. To successfully install the CTS, the required prerequisites include Python 2.7 with Zlib and Setup Tools support, Java 1.8 JDK, and a PDF viewer. To successfully test UOCs within the CTS, there are dependencies for each language the UOC candidate is written in. In this video, we will show how to install each of these dependencies. The dependencies for each language requires msis 2.0 to be installed. Msis is a software distribution package and building platform for Windows, intended to provide a POSIX compatibility layer that Windows distributions do not provide by default. It provides a bash shell and the ability to build native Windows applications using the MinGW-W64 tool chains. The following packages within msis 2 are required to test C, C++, and ADA UOCs. The packages are shown. For UOCs written in Java, Java JDK 1.8, AMP 1.9, or higher, and QT 5.2.1 are required. It is suggested that any browser be installed if installing the JDK, as you must accept a license agreement from Oracle. Note, if you are only testing UOCs written in a particular language, for example, C++, you only need to install prerequisites for that language. In the C++ example, you would only need to install the prerequisites that are shown on screen to successfully test UOCs. Throughout this video, we will track the status of prerequisite installation and configuration within the checklists. A checkmark denotes a completed installation and configuration, and a yellow dot denotes the installation and configuration is currently in progress. Let's first download and install Java 8. You may download Java from the shown URL. We will be downloading the Java 8 JDK for Windows 64, but you must download the JDK version that suits your operating system. After download, run the executable with the default options. After successfully installing, it is necessary to add the installation of Java to the Windows 10 environment path variable. By selecting the Windows 10 search and typing environment, you will be able to select edit the system environment variables and further select environment variables. To enable Java for the current logged in Windows 10 user only, the following instructions may be mirrored in the user variables section at the top of the window. We will be showing how to install Java on your entire system, which is at the bottom of the window. Create a new system environment variable by setting the variable name to JDK8 underscore home and the variable value to the folder where you have installed Java. The default Java installation location in Windows 10 is located at C, program files, Java. Create another system environment variable with the variable name Java underscore home and value percent JDK8 underscore home percent. You must add the Java underscore home system environment variable to the system path. Double click on the path variable and select new. Doing so, we'll add another path entry at the bottom of the path environment variable list. Enter percent Java underscore home percent as the addition to the path and press enter when complete. Add another entry to the path by selecting new, but this time add percent Java underscore home percent backslash bin. Move both of these new path environment variables to the top of the path environment variable list. The installation of Java is now complete. Close out of the environment variable windows and any command prompts that you may have open. Then open a new command prompt and execute Java dash version to confirm that you have configured your installation of Java 8 correctly. To install Python 2.7, it is recommended to download the Python 2.7 installer from the URL that is shown. Run the installer with all of the default options selected. It is optional to have the Python 2.7 installer create the Python 2.7 environment variable for you. We will be doing this manually in the forthcoming steps. After successful install of Python 2.7, open the system path environment variable window again and add the path where you installed Python 2.7. By default, the installation of Python 2.7 on Windows 10 is at C Python 2.7. Also, add C Python 2.7 script to the path variable. To download MSIS 2, you may download it from msis2.org. If you were using a 32-bit Windows 10 architecture, download the msis2-i686 executable. If you were using a 64-bit Windows 10 architecture, download the msis-x86 underscore 64 executable. In this video, we will be installing the msis-x86 underscore 64 executable. After downloading, run the executable. Install msis2 to C msis64, which is the path the CTS looks for when executed. After installing, open an msis2 terminal by searching in Windows 10 for msis. The application should be at the top of the start menu. In the msis2 terminal, update the package database and core system packages by executing pacman-s.yu. Sometimes, the package database and core system packages require a restart of the msis2 terminal. If needed, close the terminal, relaunch the terminal, and re-execute pacman-s.yu. To install the language prerequisites for C, C++, and ADA, you may enter the command shown to install all prerequisites at once. You will be prompted to select a configuration for the packages that pacman was asked to install. Select default, install all, and confirm with y. Then open C msis64 msis2 underscore shell.cmd in a text editor and uncomment the line that sets the msis2 path type to inherit, as shown. In the same way environment variables were added to the path for Java and Python 2.7, you must also add msis2 to the Windows 10 path. The required folders to include in the path variable are shown. These environment variables must be near the top of the path list, but they cannot be higher than Python 2.7. This is because msis includes a version of Python 3 by default. If msis is higher than the Python 2.7 path variable, the default Python version, when the CTS calls Python in its threads, will be Python 3, which is not supported at the time of recording. Msis2 has now been successfully installed, and you may close all non-msis2 related Windows. To install Ant, first download Ant from ant.apache.org-bin-download.cgi. You must download Apache Ant version 1.9.0 or above at the time of recording this video. We will be downloading Apache Ant version 1.9.9. Extract the downloaded file to the C program files directory and add the extracted folder to your path environment variable. Finally, to install Qt 5.2.1, you may download the Windows executable from the shown URL. Download qt-open-source-windows-x86-msvc2010-5.2.1.exe Follow the prompts and select all default settings to successfully install Qt. This concludes the installation of prerequisites for the face conformance test suite version 3.1.0 on Windows 10. In chapter 6, we will discuss environment setup and CTS graphical user interface, or GUI, launch on Windows 10.


Back in 2021, I made this video here and in that video, I talk about how hard it is to abandon your mouse and move to a keyboard-centric workflow. And over the course of the last two years, I've made several attempts to abandon my mouse in order to maintain my hands in one single position so that I can kind of reduce repetitive stress and all this stuff, right? Every time I try, I completely fail because I'm so used to reaching over and using a mouse. Now, since that video I pointed to, I have moved from a mouse to a trackball. And I like this thing. This is the Alicom Huge and it is good. In fact, I like it so much. I bought a second one, there's one behind my desk and I bought a couple other ones as well. Actually, I have another one here, see? And I have a lot of trackballs lying around but I still have hopes of having a workflow where I no longer have to actually use a mouse ever because I don't like moving.  I use VIM so most of my writing and stuff is done with the VIM motions enabled and even when I'm not using VIM or I'm using like VS Code, I also have VIM motions. I have a VIM extension for Firefox so I can move between websites and all of the links and stuff like that with the keyboard. I have key bindings enabled throughout my entire window manager, of course, and I have key bindings for my workflow in OBS and in Audacity and in several other applications that I use constantly. But even though all of that is true, I still find myself using the mouse quite often. It has become a very hard habit to break because I'm so used to using the scroll wheel to scroll between pages on a, you know, with a website or when I'm using Kaden Live, I use the scroll wheel, the scroll between the timeline and stuff like that. So I use the mouse all the time despite the fact that I don't want to. So I've been thinking about this for quite a while and I think it's time for me to start another challenge. Now, I know what you're thinking. Matt, aren't you already on a challenge? You're using a same distro for two years. You're doing a challenge for two years. What could possibly be the purpose of starting another challenge? Well, I really, really want to stop using my mouse as much as possible. And I say as much as possible because there are some hindrances on this quest that I know are there. And I'm gonna talk about that in a minute. But my goal here is for the next six months to not use my mouse at all unless I absolutely have to. I'm putting that proviso on there. We'll talk about that in a second. But the goal is to use the mouse as little as possible to learn or enable key bindings in every application that I use as much as possible so that my hands stay on the keyboard without moving over to the right in order to get to the track ball. My eventual goal will be to turn off the track ball completely and just not have it on my desk. Just completely remove it from my desk and I never need it at all. That's my ultimate goal within the next six months. Now, what are the things that are going to be standing in my way? Well, like I said, in many applications, I already have it set up perfectly so that I can do this challenge without too much hardship at all. The browser, OBS, audacity, the file manager even, everywhere I have key binding set up. And all I have to do is kind of make those muscle memory because for the most part, I don't use them even though I have them set up because a lot of times I wanna move a file from one place to another in Crusader. It's just easier to drag it than it is to move around with the arrow keys or whatever and move it that way. So a lot of times I default to using the mouse even though I don't want to. So it's just going to be a matter of training myself to use the keyboard in those situations where I can and ignore the mouse. The situations where it's going to be a bigger problem are going to be twofold. First is going to be gaming. I don't do a ton of gaming. I tend to go in spurts. So I will game for like two or three weeks, like a lot. And then I'll go two or three months without gaming at all. You know, sometimes it takes ages for me to even open up Steam again. And my Steam deck at this moment right now has been in its case now again for over a month. Maybe next week I'll get the urge to game again and I'll use it all for a whole week and then I'll get bored with it and move on. So I don't do a lot of gaming but I still want to be able to do it. And that means I'm going to have to come up with a way to do so without the mouse, which I traditionally use in most games. So what I've done is I've bought a controller. Now I am not a controller guy. I never really have been. I have had consoles in the past but I've never been very good at it. So I will say that I'm not as good of a controller gamer as I am with the mouse and keyboard but it's time to learn this thing. This is a PS4 controller I think. I'm actually not up on the link. It's an off-brand PlayStation controller of some kind. And it works on Linux just fine. I've used it with Red Dead Redemption. I've used it with a couple other games and it works really good. I'm not as happy with having to connect it every time because it doesn't automatically connect, which is something I'm gonna have to look into. Maybe I'll have to script it or something using Blue Man. I'm not sure but that's something that I can do.  I don't know how moving around Steam is going to work so well because I think in order to use the controller inside of the actual Steam interface you have to enable big picture mode and I'm not sure if I wanna do that. We'll see how that goes. So that's something I'm gonna have to figure out. I'm also assuming that Steam has some key bindings. I haven't actually looked to be honest with you. So if that is the case I can use the key bindings there as well because I can use the keyboard obviously. I just don't wanna use the mouse. Now one area, just kind of a tangent on this a little bit. This mouse here or this controller here has this touch pad in the center. So and it does work on Linux. If I had this connected I could actually use this to click buttons and scroll and stuff inside of any application that I want. So that'd be a cheat if I ever wanted to but I won't use that because it's really janky but it does work. I just thought that was funny and I'd point that out. So gaming is one area where I'm gonna have to kind of think on how to do it. Mostly it's gonna be using the controller. It's gonna be the Steam interface where I'm gonna have to kind of rejigger some things as they go along. So that's one area. The other one and it's the bigger one because I use it all the time is Kaden Live.  I've just never used them and I don't know the extent that they're there. Now I know there's a ton of them but I don't know if there's ones that allow me to scrub along the timeline with the keyboard. I'm assuming that there probably are. I just have never really looked at it because it's just been always more useful to use the scroll wheel on the mouse in order to move along the timeline. So I'm assuming there are key bindings and I'm hoping that there are key bindings. If there are not key bindings then I'm gonna be in a lot more trouble because then I'm gonna have to use the mouse because there'd be no other way. I'm assuming that there are, if there are that's gonna be my biggest hurdle is kind of getting those key bindings in Kaden Live to work and learning them. So I use a few right now for cutting and splitting and all this stuff and removing blank space. I have a key bindings for that and I use a SZ and C in order to do all that kind of stuff and then X which is between another tool. So I have some things set up for key bindings. I just need to take it further. I think that Kaden Live is probably going to be the hardest one to get used to using just the keyboard. I don't know if it's gonna be 100% possible or not. That's why when I talked about the challenge at the beginning I said I wanna get rid of the mouse as much as I can in the next six months. The video editing is going to be the hardest hurdle I have to face, I think. Now I haven't made an attempt at any of that stuff yet. I've just decided to just kind of start doing this thing in today. So we'll see how that goes.  Well I've talked about this before in that other video but really what I wanna be able to do, so I have a very small desk.  It's one of the reasons why I don't have a full-size keyboard now. It's not the only reason. I don't like numpad so I don't need it. So I have a 75% keyboard and then I have the Elk. I'm huge that sits right on next to it. That takes up the whole keyboard tray and the keyboard is shifted over to the left so there's room for the mouse. It makes, and there's a wall here so I can't go any further that way and center myself with the keyboard so my hands when I'm typing go over to the left and that is not comfortable when I type. It's just really not. So a lot of times when I know I'm just gonna be in Vim I'll take the mouse, set it up on the desk so that it's out of the way and then move the keyboard so that it's centered and my wrists aren't in janky positions. But then when I do have to reach for the mouse I have to reach all the way up here and it's not an ideal situation. Now, obviously the solution is to get a bigger desk and that's on the list of things to do eventually but as of right now what I wanna be able to do is if I can just get rid of the mouse permanently my keyboard can sit in the center where it deserves and needs to be and that means no more odd wrist position. The challenge there of course is going to be I've gotten kind of used to my wrist being shoved over to the left a little bit and that's, you know, I've gotten really good typing that way it's gonna be weird having the keyboard right in the middle of the position it's gonna, I'm probably going to have to kind of retrain my fingers just a little bit as I type so it's gonna be a little bit of a challenge and I wanted to make this video to kind of hold myself accountable and actually get myself started because I've been putting it off for a while I think I said I've tried a few times over the course of the last two years since I made that last video and I think I've even actually blogged about this before so I've been trying over and over again but I'm getting better at challenges not still not great at challenges like I failed the six months challenge but I won the nano challenge I'm on another two year challenge and I'm still chugging away on that so I'm challenging myself to see if I can't make my workflow just a little bit better and this is a major one so if you're like me you're interested in a keyboard only workflow I challenge you to go alongside me with this and see if you can use your keyboard as much as possible without using the mouse I don't think that this is something that a lot of people are even interested in so we'll see how this goes but if you are interested in drop a comment in the comment section below and load here for me you can also join the Discord server and we have a challenges channel in the Discord server where we can talk about this as well and I know that's where I will be talking about this along with the two year Linux challenge which I'm currently also on so comments in the comment section below I'd love to hear from you you can follow me on Maserdawn or Odyssey links for those will be in the video description if you haven't already leave a like on this video I'd really appreciate it it really does help the channel you can support me on Patreon at patreon.com slash Linuxcast links for PayPal and YouTube will be in the video description as well thanks to everybody who does support me on Patreon and YouTube because you're all absolutely amazing without you the challenges would not be anywhere near where it is right now so thank you so very very very very very much for your support I truly do appreciate it thanks everybody for watching I'll see you next time


Everybody forced here ripping two boxes of 2022 bowman chrome baseball sapphire for Tom C. Good luck, Tom It's find a nice Jackson choreo Whichever the choreos are prefer. We're almost chris Bryant, Yeti Cappy, and Jerrod Durand rookie Nolan Aronato, Orange rookie Jeremy Pena Fantastic card 42 of 75 That's going into a mag for sure congrats Tom Color match and all Colton Couser and Roanzey Contreras Jason Dominguez followed by Aqua Bryce Harper 20 of 99 I leave the other crews and starting Marte Karen Mitchell Jeremy Pena base rookie here. Oh, that was an orange variation then. Oh, dang. That's the base right there The Alcazar and Cal Raleigh.  That's bigger than thought Harry Ford will be Rodriguez rookie followed by yellow Kyle Lewis at a 50 and Albert Pujols Roderick Arias Anthony Rizzo orange Mike trout to 75 now as well Nice orange trout Tietas trout yassa Mercedes Cattel Marte Cencia Mount Castle Vasquez and whoops a cabin sheets my box to Rats on that panea again Tom got orange trout as well Boxer. Let's see a big-time first bowman this time West calf Brian de la Cruz Jay Allen and Juan Soto Louise Heel Aqua James Wood one of 99 Padres Benny Montgomery and a Randy Rosa rena Joey Gallo Henry Davis Roberto Campos and Dylan Carlson Brian Hayes Averson Artega yellow to 50 is Hebert Perez Brewers Herdolfo Castro Here for Guero warming Bernabelle Joe Ryan rookie yearland confidant Contreras with Dolo Pasha and Vakero. Come on. Come on Dal Bruhan Henry Mendez O'Neill Cruz rookie and Jonathan Mejia Trey Turner Kim Tana on Hellace and Martinez I'll do it with a couple boxes appreciate it as always Tom. We'll get him out to you


Live from Santa Clara, California, extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE, covering Nextwork 2015. Brought to you by Juniper Networks. Now your host, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. Hello everyone, welcome to a special CUBE presentation. We are here live in Santa Clara at the Marriott in the shadow of Levi's Stadium for Juniper's next work event, their customer summit. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE, co-host Stu Miniman this week. We're here all day. Wall-to-wall coverage of Juniper's exclusive news, analysis, conversations around the future of Juniper, the future of the network, the future of software. Our next guest is Jennifer Blatnick, who's the vice president of portfolio marketing for cloud and enterprise. Welcome to the CUBE. Thank you so much. I love Juniper because it's a Silicon, one of those Silicon Valley companies that just keeps innovating and innovating, but the tide has shifted over the years and you've seen the evolution of the network. The cloud is here, mobile. The things that we've all predicted saw that in 2009. Pradeep, the founder of Juniper, is still around on, you know me, I love when founders, lead companies, are still pumping because you always have that visionary. But he saw the future of mobile, he saw the future of apps and Junos was ahead of its time. I always said that back in 2010 timeframe. But a lot of exciting new stuff here with software at the center of the value proposition, big data, things like that. Junos has changed, so give us the quick update. What's the big news with Junos and how does that affect the enterprise? How does that affect the market? Sure, so thanks again for having me on the show. You know, we're really excited about Junos because like you said, we've always been open, right? We've always had open APIs. We've allowed customers to operate scripts directly on our platforms and we've really just taken this, you know, another, our open ecosystem further today. Today we announced software desegregation or software unleashed. So now you can actually start to run Junos on any third-party hardware. Other vendors hardware or white box hardware, you know, we announced that at the end of last year. Or you can run other third-party software on our hardware, right?  You know, I love the tech business. I've been in it all my life and it's so exciting. Now we have theCUBE and Stu and I analyze, go to all the events. And the word religious war has always come up in tech. And that's about the platform, philosophies, right? So you're seeing a big engineered systems that's Oracle and integrating into the stack. And then you're seeing more of open, more of the horizontally scalable, which has been what's been driving the cloud and the enterprise, software-defined networking. So you see different philosophies. Where does the open Junos fit in? Because there are people that still want to tune and build on industry standard hardware, white boxes and talk about the differences and the trade-offs between the two philosophies, if you can. Sure, well, I mean, the reason why I think we have disaggregated software is because we want to allow customers that flexibility of choice. And if, you know, they're not ready to go there yet, we can actually transition them by selling them, you know, our software and our hardware bundled together, right? So it's all about customer choice at the end of the day and how do they transition and when they want to transition and giving them that flexibility. With software-defined networking, right, what you are really enabling is flexibility and agility. But to get there overnight is a bit daunting for a lot of our customers, right? And you want to be able to know that you can operate, you know, your network today, but modernize and transition for the future. And that's really what we're offering customers is a solution for today, but the ability to convert it for the future also. What's that daunting? What's daunting to them? Is it just the scope? Is it the personnel? Is it the tech? Is it the tuning? No, it's all of it.  I mean, that's a huge part of the equation. No doubt, right? Is the people and, you know, comfort level of how I do my job today and how things have always been done. But then you also have the revolutionaries, you know, who come in and like, we need to do things differently now, right? We need DevOps. We need agile. We need SDN. Exactly. Those are the revolutionaries. Yes, and the revolutionaries are great, right? They're visionaries, but at the same time, you have to run a business in the meantime, right? To fund those revolutionaries and the revolutionary ideas. And this is essentially what, you know, we give you when we're giving you, you know, this new software disaggregation is the ability to transition and modernize, right? And to know that in the future, you can move and migrate to an SDN world where you get that ultimate agility. So, Jennifer, I'm wondering if you can give us a little bit of your customer's perspective on this. When I look at networking, you know, it's really broad. There's so many sub-segments out there. You've got kind of the hyperscale guys which we heard in the keynote say, these cloud guys, they're buying this way. I mean, if you look at how Amazon does things, if you look at Facebook, what they're doing with OCP, it's, you know, software and, you know, leveraging, you know, various hardware platforms and those are kind of two separate pieces. You know, Juniper has a strong history in the carriers and the service providers.  I don't have, you know, I've got a couple of IT guys and I'm just trying to keep things up and running and figure out what we do.  How does disaggregation fit in? What are you hearing from your customers? Sure, I mean, you know, Stu, you bring up a great point, right? You know, at Juniper, our heritage is with service providers and with carriers, whether it be traditional telco type carriers or web 2.0 type carriers, right? And these carriers, you know, they have their own unique problems, right? You know, definitely high-scale is one of them. But you'll be, you know, I think interested to know that a lot of these web 2.0 service provider carriers, their goal is actually to run their operation centers with just one or two personnel. It's not like they have huge operations. They want their knock to be, you know, a handful of personnel, which is actually great because the innovation and technology we're doing with them at the bleeding edge, we can bring and down into the enterprise where they really only can have, you know, a few personnel to operate the whole data center. And so it's about simplification of architecture and being able to bring that simplification of architecture and automation down so that enterprises can benefit, you know, with all of the innovation that we've done with some of our larger carriers. Yeah, the other message that I was really happy to hear in the keynote this morning was talking about automation because, I mean, that's central. If you talk about how do you simplify the environment?  So talk about, you know, what Juniper's doing, the new offerings from the automation standpoint. Yeah, you know, automation is all about removing kind of the rogue, you know, mundane cut and paste tasks, right, and human error, frankly. And it applies not only to, you know, building and configuring and installing a network, but it also applies to security of the network, quite frankly, because so much of, you know, the security risks actually have to do with essentially human error, right? And so what you want to do is remove that element out of the network. You want to remove the mundane tasks and use those resources, that human resources to really provide, to provide higher, you know, advanced intelligence into your network to actually make decisions, not go do research and figure out what problem is wrong. You want to simplify your network so that you can quickly identify any problems that are in your network, be it, you know, network issues or a security issue or possible security threat, quickly identify it and quickly deal with it, right? Whether it is implementing a new policy, putting something into a sandbox, shutting off a port, you know, VLAN, whatever it might be. But, you know, you want all of those workflows to be automated so that you can basically bring your level of risk down. So talk about the IoT question we saw on the CrowdChat. Go to CrowdChat.net, that's nxtwork, if you're watching, ask us questions. But one of the questions came up was, how does IoT affect the network and also the internal fire, inside the firewall? And use that as a context to explain what this meta-fabric announcement is, because that's interesting, because now you're looking at an operating system of the data center, the software-driven world. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, IoT, obviously, everyone talks about the bandwidth and, you know, but, you know, the bigger issue is essentially that you've now created a larger surface area of network security risks into your network, right? Every point now is either a point of enforcement, you can see it that way, or a point of threat, right? Well, the perimeter's dead. I mean, there's no more perimeter with APIs in openness. Absolutely. The perimeter model is no longer available. Well, the perimeter's everywhere and it's nowhere, right? That's essentially what happens, right? It becomes, you know, again, back to the point of every point can be a point of enforcement, or every, you know, or you have no edge and no perimeter. And that's essentially where you really have to look at things like software-defined secure networks. This is one of the things that we've started to embark on is really looking at, you know, how you can utilize the network to be security-centric so that every point of your network can be a point of enforcement and that you can apply policies to the network that make business sense and you're not translating between business and technical, right? So, for example, a lighting fixture that could be an IoT device in your network that is, you know, a Tier V device, if you will, and that Tier V device should not be accessing your HR database, right? So you want to be able to, you know, apply those types of policies onto your network. And that's what we talk about when we talk about software-defined secure networks is really being able to apply business policies in terms of security risks to your network and not, you know, just look at, you know, VLANs and user-based access. What does security-centric mean, ultimately, for Juniper? Security-centric really means looking at security from how you build and architect the network and not just as a bolt-on. That's really the difference, right?  It doesn't mean that you don't need to secure the perimeter, but it just means that every point of your network actually is a perimeter and that's where the ideas behind micro-segmentation come in, right?  In Metafabric, right? We look at the architecture, and again, transitioning customers to help them understand where do you apply your security policies? Is it at the tour, right? Is it down, you know, between, you know, East-West traffic, right? And looking at all those different aspects is, you know, what we do. Stu and I were at Oracle Open World. Larry Ellison was forcefully saying, you got to push security down to the lowest part of the stack. And they're, you know, talking about the old sun acquisition, encryption on the chip, silicon. So, this is not new to Juniper, right? So, one, do you agree with that? And then what are you guys doing to talk about security vis-a-vis what is being promoted out there by the Larry Ellisons of the world who see security moving from application down to the lowest level?  I mean, security is really all about an ROI gain, right? It's an ROI gain for your intruders, essentially. They need the most cost-effective way to get into your network so they can extract the value out of the network. The more difficult you make it for them, the less enticing it is for them to infiltrate your network. So, you need security everywhere, absolutely, right? To what level and to what extent, right? That's where you really need to look at, you know, what is the most practical way? Because you can really go crazy.  But you need to have practical security policies that you can actually, you know, put into the network. And that's why we believe in the software-defined secure networks because you want to look at it from a business and a business risk perspective and be able to apply those policies. And then that policy can most cost-effectively decide where and when in the network do you apply a security? So, what you're saying, if I understand you correctly is, there's no really one answer. It's up and down the stack, pretty much. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, it is up and down the stack. And you have to look at it from the perspective of, you know, what is best for your network and, you know, where is your biggest risks? So, Jennifer, earlier this year we read VMworld and seems security is really kind of the early killer use case that VMWare's seeing with NSX.  We heard in the keynote this morning a lot of discussion about kind of the momentum and growth of the contrail. Can you kind of help, you know, unpack for us the SDN message? You guys were an early, you know, platinum sponsor, member of Open Daylight. I know you guys participate a little bit there, but it's really more about contrail and open contrail. So, you know, bring us up to speed on the SDN piece. Sure, yeah, so, you know, we have no religion, right? We support, you know, VMWare's NSX solution, as a matter of fact, with today's announcement. We're one of the most integrated vendors with VMWare. We've integrated with vCenter vSphere and also with VMWare's vRealizeOps. So from a network management perspective, we allow the bridging between physical and virtual. We also recognize that there are a lot of customers out there who want to build it themselves, right? And they're, they've really embraced OpenStack community or the Open Daylight community. And in OpenStack, right, you know, you may have seen the user survey, but contrail is the most adopted SDN controller from a commercial vendor perspective out there. And the reason is because we've really embraced the community to bring OpenStack, right, to the forefront. We've never been afraid to do things differently, right? We have contrail and we also have our open contrail solution that allows customers to choose whether they want to build it themselves or they want us to provide them with a package solution. But we know that customers want choice and they don't want to be locked in. And that's what we're trying to offer customers. So again, no religion. If customers want to use NSX, we'll support them with NSX. If they want to use and build themselves because of their requirements and OpenStack solution, we're happy to support that too. The cloud game certainly is changing the enterprise data center. What's your number one conversation or top three conversations you're having with customers and your product teams as you look at this transformation in the data center? Because now it's private, on-prem private cloud and public cloud and hybrid is the engineered solution in between both. Yeah. What's the top three conversations you're involved with? Definitely the first one, you know, as we've already talked a little bit about is how do I get started? Like what's the first step? And it's not the same for every customer, right? And that's why we have our professional services where we actually do data center assessments with them, right? Sometimes they need to start with their architecture. Some of them haven't even moved to virtualize. Some of them still have on-prem data centers and they haven't even started to think about, you know, building, you know, a private cloud. So it just depends. Some customers are ready to jump, you know, fullheartedly, honestly into public cloud solutions with a small on-prem data center. And for them, it's more about, well, what is the security I need to look at in terms of bridging and bursting into a public cloud? We actually, at AWS's re-invent conference, we're actually going to have VSRX now as a offering, a drop-down offering directly within AWS so that we're very, very excited about. But, you know, so that's another concern. So, you know, and then finally it's about automation and how to make this completely seamless and make it so that you have flexibility and choice because the next step really is to be able to choose which public cloud vendor to use, when and why, getting the best offering that customers can to burst. Maybe today I burst into Amazon, maybe another day I burst into Azure, right? I want to be able to have that flexibility of choice and know that I'm doing it with little risk to my organization and also optimize the use of my OpEx as much as possible. So we had a great chat with Gary Clark at AWS on theCUBE and he was really candid, but it was interesting what Amazon use case points out, is that it's a multi-platform integration game, it seems like. Yes, yes. So highlight what that means from an Amazon standpoint and use that as an example of, because there'll be other in clouds, other environments, and how does Juniper fit in there? Is that a core part of the going forward thesis for Juniper? Oh, absolutely. The difference between what Juniper says in terms of ecosystems and partners is we really put into play and execute on this openness, right? Everyone says they're open, but you can see the proof points with Juniper where we actually have integration in, for example, AWS. We actually have, we work with customers and partners to provide other customers, they're end customers, like AWS is end customers, the best solution possible. So your final question to end the segment. Share with the folks watching that aren't here, that are customers. What's going on at this event? It's a customer summit. What are some of the things that are being discussed? What's the vibe? What's the feeling? Because they're, I'm sure they have a little fear of missing out FOMO going on. So share with them what's happening. Sure, absolutely. So, you know, very exciting, a lot of buzz. Definitely at the top of mind, a lot of our customers is talking about SDN and NFV, how that actually is going to map into their networks and looking at the plan of evolution of most of our customers' networks. They're super excited, a lot around security also. And also, just around architectures, how do you architect for the future in terms of scale for growth, but not having to shell out exorbitant amounts of cash and working within your IT budgets, for example, to really be able to build networks of the future. The top trending hashtags here at this event for the folks watching is Instant Evolution, big NFV idea, Junos, Juniper, JNPR, Ambassadors. And I love Trio, I don't know how I love Trio that in there, is that something that's like, so that's really interesting, this evolution. You mentioned revolutionaries, is that the culture right now? Oh, absolutely, you know, and I love that, right?  It's a great opportunity right now, and founder-led companies are the ones that always do great, and the ones, because they have that vision, they know where the North Star is, and then share some color with what Pradeep is pushing, and what are some of the things he's talking about? Well, I think the company strategy in general is one of a challenger spirit, if you will, right? Not afraid to challenge the status quo, not afraid to really do things differently, to lead the evolution of the industry, and to really bring that challenger mindset to everybody in the industry, while mitigating their risks, right? Because we know we all have to evolve, right? What's the saying, evolve or die, right? And so, we're not afraid to do that, and that's what you find here. And always getting out for that next wave, and what is that next wave at Juniper? Well, the next wave is really around automation, like we talked about, right? It's about removing the rogue mundane tasks out of the network, so that you can actually leverage your network into a powerful services platform of the future. Okay, Jennifer Blatnick with Juniper Networks, Vice President of Portfolio Marketing for Cloud, and Enterprise, thanks for joining us here in theCUBE. We'll be right back with more Juniper coverage of their customer summit here. Next work, NXT work is the hashtag. Join the conversation, go to crowdchat.net slash NXT work. We'll be taking questions, and that's where they're recording the Twitter conversations. We'll be right back with more after this short break.