doing some work on this place kids or see I make these things not this one that's one of the ones that was recalled from Greco this goes to the back door it's weird the back doors are locked but doors not seen credit card here not gonna give out the name a glass isn't read the date may of 2009 I don't think it's been empty that long though that might have been there were doing some work in here yeah the bathroom check this bathroom out it's pretty cool old clawfoot bathtub I mean this this was probably at one time maybe a decent little house they were working on it of course but wonder why this is up here like this maybe a vagrant stand in here shims that's pretty cool this thing is also used as a step stool nib shit and there are some outbuildings and there's another house right beside here there's not been one right over there hey poo this place has got a clawfoot bathtub in it clawfoot bathtub yep this garage is open I do know that because I didn't walk around before I grabbed a camera I thought well it's probably have to be careful in here whenever you guys are out exploring watch for stuff like this we don't see anyone get hurt I know you veterans like us you know what to watch for but a lot of people just starting out you know they might not know and you know things like that that to to look out for and watch for check this out look at all these old magazines us to USA today see if I can get date I don't have my glasses see like I'm gonna zoom in on this I don't have to but I'm gonna see if I can zoom in so I get a date there's the date on these but I still can't read it get no strollers baby bed gas canes out the ass Christmas tree stand small truck wheels that's pretty cool Ryan 1987 well 87 Leatherman's jacket hanging on the wall pretty cool I'm gonna shut you down for a minute and maybe we'll go over next door I'll be right back


It's great to see you in the North Texas Conference this morning. Praise the Lord. I'm grateful to be with you. I'm honored by the invitation of your Bishop and my friend and of the planning and leadership team, some of whom have spoken before you today, to be a part of your and I want to say our common journey toward healing and wholeness as we become an anti-racist church. Are you hearing me? The destination is not just being nicer to each other. The destination is becoming an anti-racist person and an anti-racist church in the name of Jesus. Am I in the right house today? So I want you to know that's why I came. I would have come from Bishop McKee, no matter what, but that's my agenda. I hope it aligns with your agenda. I am honored. I am humbled. I'm blown away that you are doing this work and how you're doing it, but I should not be surprised with the stellar leadership of Bishop McKee and the team that he has surrounded himself with and all of you today, but let's give the Bishop some love today. So I'm grateful Bishop Mike for your leadership and your courage to step into this. We have had any number of conversations about this. I want you to know that Bishop McKee is going to be one of my annual conference preachers this year in the West Ohio annual conference, and Sister Tammy, I want you to know now the way you've outlined this day, you and the team, so you all just need to receive my love for what you've done, but I've already sent that back to West Ohio, so that's gone. That's gone. So if I have a fee I owe in North Texas, I'm willing to pay it, but you're having organized this in the way that you have, particularly around the vows of baptism is a blessing and an insight of genius indeed, and we ought to turn again and again to the sacraments. Now don't dig up this from my time, but let me just let me just say one other thing. This is difficult and challenging work. It's ongoing work. It has been in our movement as a church, episodic work, and it has in America been episodic work. I only ask you to witness the rhetoric of 2008 November upon the election of President Obama and the sigh of relief of some Americans that surely now we have solved the race problem and we are in a post racial society. And I want to say to you seriously, what planet were we living on? So we have worked at this. There have been some watershed moments. There have been seasons of multiple steps forward in the church and in society. And then there have been these periods of regression and retrenchment in which we have gone backwards, it would seem, or something has come to the surface again that reminded us that the work in shedding a propensity toward our sinfulness, I'm in the Bible now, is ongoing work for every servant of God and every follower of Jesus. And that's why when we gather together every seven days, if you only make it that, though the definition, as all of you know, of what constitutes regular church attendance is a moving target. Now, when I was growing up and early on, it was Eris Sunday. I conceded to three Sundays a month you were a regular attendant. And now it's something else. So I just, you know, it is what it is. But you struggle with that weekend and week out month in and month out. But that's why when we gather together every whatever we gather together, it is important for us to engage in liturgy so that we can be formed and reformed again into our essential identity as children of God and as followers of Jesus. And I think in spite of all of our attempts to identify with the culture and the cultures around us, we need to maintain that we have a distinct contribution to make as the community that is shaped in by for and around the crucified and risen Christ. And that's why liturgy matters.  But I'm just saying liturgy matters. And in fact, everywhere outside of the church, people are trying to find a liturgy that is meaningful to them. Have you ever been to a football or basketball game and listened to the chance? Sometimes led by the cheerleaders and sometimes started spontaneously in the crowd. And it is picked up in waves, literally, because everybody knows the word. That's the power of liturgy. But we keep coming back to our primary liturgy, the liturgy of the sacraments, the order of word and table.  And everybody that claims they are a Christian has some relationship, even if they're afraid of clean water to baptism. We all claim to be baptized, even those who got in without any water. And we keep running from our liturgy, which I say is a way of running from our identity. Even in our movement, even in our movement, and I don't want you to feel guilty about this, but we try to use as little water as possible.  Remember, grilled cream, I may be telling on my age up here. And I think, actually, in this case, less is not more. More is more because we need the power of words and of symbols. So when you come to this first entry, I'm almost through here. When you come to this first entry that talks about in the interrogatory, do you reject sin and evil and injustice in all of their forms? I'm saying to you, we need that. And not just generically, we need it generically, but we need to get really specific. We need the power of those words and the power of a living and supportive community to remind us that we are on a shared journey of faith and a shared human journey. It's just not that everybody is woke yet to the need for the confession of sin, the need to repent, the need to reject something. In order to take up the life of the cross, you've got to put something else down. And so when it says to a person or to persons who stand in behalf of others, as in some of the baptismal covenants, do you reject the evil powers of this world? That's a serious question, with which we ought to wrestle not every once of the month when there's a baptism service every day of our lives. We ought to be saying, yes, Lord, I reject the spiritual forces of wickedness and the evil powers of this world. And may I say all of the ways in which they have aggregated themselves out of individual behaviors that have become collective systemic behaviors institutionalized and running so deep that some days we and I don't even know why I act like what I am, because we have been acculturated to the world and acculturated to evil. And in the same way in which we say in politics, quote unquote, you can't fight city hall. We just kind of move along with a case sarah, sarah adage. That's if in the wars of baptism that we pray over that God is not acting. If in the making of the sign of the cross on the foreheads of the communicates that God is not being invoked and invited and hopefully implanted in the hearts and lives of those who are receiving the gift of baptism. In fact, I went and checked the other liturgies. Let me say some other liturgies. Actually ours is kind of mine. Looked at the Orthodox liturgy and there's a part of it where they do this thing where they're getting ready to baptize and they refer to it as exorcism. Oh, you don't hear me today. Nor they take it that there are some traditions in which they ask the communicates or those who stand on behalf of the children to say, do you reject the devil? The vocabulary needs a new and a fresh strength to remind us of what the apostle said to us, that truly we do not wrestle with flesh against flesh, but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high place. Reject Satan and all of his men. This is not a quest to get you into some anthropomorphic sense where you're looking for a boogey man around every corner. But it is a way of framing, naming, liturgizing and liturizing the reality of evil in this world and the presence of evil and spiritual wickedness that we sometimes get. Now I've got a hunch. I've not verified this. Don't have a terminal degree in this. But I've got a hunch that as the church, the model of church became more therapeutic as some leading lights have said. And the mission of the church and people coming to worship us to make people feel actually good about themselves. We began to take our hand off the throttle of some of the old models. A hunch is that we swung the pendulum too far in the feel good category and not have not yet swung it back in the category that reminds us of the perniciousness of our sinfulness. Now I know that to be true when it comes to the matter of race and tribe and ethnicity and national origin and language. I know that to be true. And so when we pray some of our prayers, which are kind of catch-all and they are intended to be for corporate worship, sometimes we need to insert some specificity as you have done in your liturgy this morning. And so I close with this in the order of service, I kind of like this stuff. Now I'm a bureaucrat, I kind of get paid to do the party stuff. But may I remind you that when you stood in front of the bishop in the annual conference in the clergy session, whatever your status, elder, deacon, local pastor, and you responded to the historic questions, you said, yes, you would uphold and use and teach the liturgies of the church. So I just came to remind you of what you already committed to do. I'm not asking you to do a new thing, I'm asking you to get over the delusion that you need to create a new thing. Because the church already has a thing. And I came by this morning to say it's a good thing. And we won't know how good it is until we actually use it and reiterate it over and over and over and over and over. I feel bad about what gets me to the place of a need to confess, but I love to confess. Because I feel better afterwards. You don't hear me. Listen to what the liturgy says. Merciful God, we confess that we have not loved you with our whole heart. Just tell Deacon this mess when it comes to our sin and our sins.  Say you've got prejudice. Divert of all of that. I'm over my time, but bear with me. I'll make it up on the other end. I moved to Columbus, Ohio in 2012. So I called up some of the brethren and I said, where can I find a barber shop? Now, I know some of y'all think seriously. I like to get my line. I'm preaching and serving the Lord's Supper and baptizing, and my stuff is all hanging. You reach a certain age and all the brethren know this. You know, hair is growing where you don't want it to grow. And it doesn't grow where it used to grow. So at least I can do to be presentable is to get my lines right. So this brother said, he said, just go on Cleveland Avenue and they had nothing but nail shops, barber shops, and beauty parlors. Sure enough, he was right. So I went in one, it looked clean from the outside. It said, Sam's barber. I looked in the plate glass window and everybody in there looked like me. I said, well, let's see how this goes. You never know how you're going to be received in a nail shop of beauty parlors. Because they all have a culture of their own. Am I right about that? Yeah, black, white, otherwise they all have a culture of their own. And so I went in and, you know, greeted everybody as I'm prone to do. I didn't know anybody.  So I need to ingratiate myself. And, you know, I saw a few guys, they nodded their heads.  And so nobody really spoke that purposely. And then I sat and I listened and the primary language was not English. I said, help me, Holy Ghost. The primary language was Twain. So it was the brothers from Ghana. And it was a community gathering. And I'm not a Ghanaian. Well, I don't consider myself racist. You assume I have some prejudice. And here was the prejudice. I had a certain image of what an African American barbershop was going to be like. And that didn't fit the image. Are you hearing me? And I had to sit there and I wrestled for 15 minutes waiting on a chair because they don't take appointment, y'all. Waiting on a chair to decide if I was going to leave, period. Then I got in the chair. I said, well, I hope this cut turns out all right. And then I couldn't decide if I was going to ever go back because I had a certain image. I had a certain filter. I had a certain social and cultural expectation of what I would experience in addition to a good cut. Now, Sam is my barber. He did a great job. I'm in year eight. I'm still at Sam's barbershop. Remember, I said this is an ongoing journey. That's what Kami said earlier.  And I'm here merely to say everybody's got several lenses, filters, cultural and religious overlay that we have to wrestle with on an ongoing basis. And when we see it clearly, reject, renounce. Let me close with this scripture. I mean, first John used to hear some folks refer to it as I. I've been looking for I John for 50 years. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I asked somebody. Chapter one, verse five. This is the message that we have heard from him and we announce it to you. God is light. And in God, there is no dark. If we claim we have fellowship with him and live in the darkness, we are lying and do not act. But if we live in the light in the same way that he is in the light, we have fellowship with him and the blood of Jesus, his son cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we don't have any sin, we deceive ourselves.  The truth that the truth is not in your life. But the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful. God is just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from everything that we've done wrong. If we claim we have never sinned, we make God. I came by today to join you in the journey of being set free. Charles Timmy said in one of his hymns, I'm free from condemnation. Jesus Christ has set me free. On the cross he bore my part. And the chorus says hallelujah. He saves.


The bird has put George to sleep, I'm not kidding. George is sleeping, not the bird. Hello my snoopers and flighters, my name is Marlene McCohen and today we're going somewhere fun. We are taking George to the bird store. My is your baby? Yeah, so this is his first time seeing the baby. See you there guys. Ready? What's up? Guess what? This is his first time seeing the baby. Oh nice man. How are you doing? First time seeing your baby? Yeah, no his first time. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so here we go. All right, all right. Oh you guys came back today. Oh, I kissed your baby's head. It's okay. That was amazing. Oh my gosh, so happy this is right? Yes. This is a good memory. All right. For bird's names, yeah. Yeah.  Yes. Are you? I've been able to come every day. Oh, okay, here we go. This is my third time since. Oh okay. It's my first time seeing you. Oh, that's crazy. I don't know. That's awesome. Well, you take it whenever you can. I try it just, YouTube is a lot. You wouldn't think, but it is. I know. I put food aside, we'll take it home today. I already put it aside on the right. Oh, hello there buddy. You want to sit with him in the bed? Yeah, you have to, oh. Because when you're hungry, do you have anything, sir? And then, don't do anything. I should do mine, too. Just thinking. I'm excited. Learning. Okay, oh, there's a bench over here. I don't have a name. I really don't. I have a few options, if you want to hear them. Dublin, Garfield, Pluto, or Prado. I don't have any. All right, yeah, keep going, okay? Keep driving. Hold him, you don't hold him. Sit down, man, make yourself a room. Thank you. Enjoy the little guy. Oh, thanks. Cute, isn't it? Your fault is blame. You're welcome. I take the blame for that. Hey there, buddy. You want to know? Mm-hmm. Why'd you take him away? So that you could have him, because you weren't going for it. I was going to go for it. I wanted to first give him a few pets. Oh, okay, sorry. Come here. Yeah, it smells much better. Oh, why don't you use it? All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. Smells good. He's stunk for the last few times I came. How does it feel? It feels good. How does it feel, though? It feels strong. But I mean, you know, that you don't have a mustache perky to go with. I don't think he's a mustache perky yet. He's still like a half of a perky. You're not a mustache.  I'm calling you Mustafi. Obviously, he's not going to play with this right now. I like that you get amused to seeing me at the interested later. You always want a bird that loves toys. It's important for them to like toys. He doesn't know who he is. I know, but you know, I think about it, if you're imprinting on a bird, then also items can imprint on a bird. Now he has his entire mustache. Remember he didn't have it? Are you guys seeing how much he's grown? Look at all these little feathers came in. Is this a few days? Yeah. And you don't know, I taught him how to, like, step up and stuff. Oh my God, I might be getting nostril. I think I'm getting nostril sniffed. You guys stunk the last few days I came. Who are you doing good? Guys, we came up with a name. No, the name we just agreed on. Borat. Borat, like my sister. We're just having 10 minutes of footage of you sniffing the bird. The bird has put George to sleep. I'm not kidding. George is sleeping, not the bird. You guys, your bedtime. George just fell asleep. George? Okay, that's good. That's a good name. That's my name. Do you know, before I met him, I had an African grey name, George. Sure. And so, yeah, so we had two Georges. All right, buddy, it's your time to go to Betty. Betty, nighttime. Let me give you a kiss one second. All right, buddy, I'll come see you soon. One second. Look at this face. Oh, she? Better be a boy. Why? I love that orange beat. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I know. Bye. How do you feel about that? It's cute. Can I give you my name? Not yet. I was emotional when I saw Gemma though. That made me emotional. But right now, I'm like, I'm just trying to figure out his name. I'm thinking his name. George is a good name. How many we got? Two? He might have more, I don't know. Yeah. Something like this? I was just looking at that. For the chameleon. I don't know what a chameleon is. You have a chameleon, right? Should we get this, George, for the aviary?  Oh, did you meet Monkey? Monkey? Can I show him Monkey? This is his first time. Oh, I remember him. Did you ever meet him? Or just saw him in the video? I saw him in the video. Hi, buddy. He's the nicest bird. Hello.  The bird put itself to bed. It went under there. He loves it. The name is Bluebell.  I'm thinking about it. I know. Someone that has a mustache, a cool guy that has a mustache. A cool guy? Yeah, that has a mustache. Call him Tim. Yeah, because your name is really, really... That was a few names. I thought my name was blue. I thought my name was blue. George was a good name. George is a good name. I brought a small card. Alright guys, so that's it. I hope you enjoyed this video. Come check out Canoga Discount Birds. This is how you get shopping in. Alright guys. If you come here, there is a fine man that can take stuff to your car. Take care. Good to see you. Good to see you. Take care. Have a good one. See you soon. Next time I'll have a name. Tuesday. See you tomorrow. I love you guys. Don't forget to subscribe. Hit that notification bell. Check out if you want to become a flyder and get these videos early. Check out my Patreon and the link below. Cameo, everything. Love you guys. Bye.


Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE at OpenStack Summit Vancouver 2015. Brought to you by headline sponsors EMC and jointly by Red Hat and Cisco with additional sponsorship by Brocade and HP. And now your hosts, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live here in Vancouver, British Columbia for OpenStack Summit. Three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We're in day three, this is Silicon Angles. theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of Silicon Angles. Joe Miniman, Stu Miniman, chief analyst for Cloud and infrastructure at Wikibon.com. Our next guest is CUBE alum, Lou Tucker, VP, CTO at Cisco, great to see you. And Mark McLaughlin, OpenStack technical director from Red Hat, welcome to theCUBE for the first time. Welcome guys. So we've got some legends on theCUBE. We've got Lou, we've got Mark. You guys are legends in the tech community. So great to have you on, share your insights. First question I got to ask, you know.  You mentioned that was your sound bite from your speech this morning. People, the cloud is here. People who didn't make the bet need to be running fast to make the bet. OpenStack has legs, it's crossed over to path to maturity, not just POCs anymore. What's your take on it? Do you agree and give some insights on where OpenStack is right now and what's going on with customers, people shipping?  And they're competing against companies who had the ah-ha moment like two years ago that they were really going to get on board with this. And so now there's a real catch up that a lot of companies are having to do. And I saw that, that came actually out of looking at a National Association of Broadcasters, NIB conference, where it's all hardware appliances, all moving to virtualized now, systems now. And the companies that started that two years ago have a tremendous advantage and tremendous head start. And that's important from a competitive advantage standpoint because in this cloud era, the lock-in doesn't exist anymore for competitive advantage, the new lock-in is speed. So there's economies of scale with that advantage, so use that. Do you agree? So Lou, there's some in the journalistic world that have said that BCs are fleeing away, there's some in the analyst world that have said that OpenStack's a science project, what are they missing? They're missing the fact that the customers have been looking for something like OpenStack for a long time. Something that is not produced by a single vendor, it doesn't have that kind of lock-in, something that is the rest of the IT community is working together on. So that's where you see both Red Hat and Cisco working with IBM, with HP and others to bring us out. So it's not the typical thing that analysts think of when they think of one faction against another or something, here we are working together. So that's different. They're having a hard time understanding that. They're having a hard time understanding that. That's old school, the factions working against each other now, that's different. But what's changed? Why is it not the factions against each other? Is it more maturation of open source protocols? I mean protocols, I mean like etiquette or? You've been at this alone. What's your take on that? I mean, I think you're absolutely right. What we're seeing here is the convergence of people really just demanding that competitive advantage of agility and that ability to kind of disrupt themselves before they get disrupted by others. And then this kind of combination of we've created this amazing community that's building what people want, what people need to get that competitive advantage. I mean, I've been around open source for a long time. You don't see many communities like the open stack community really the only one with the amount of kind of diversity and the amount of stuff going on similar to open stack is the Linux community. But I think what's happened here is we've managed to draw the corporate world closer to the actual development happening in the project and a lot more real true kind of collaboration between companies and co-optition between companies happening in this project. And it's really something special. Yeah, so Mark, this is the third year we've done theCUBE at the event. Last year we had a lot of debates with people. Is there enough leadership? Do we need a fanatical dictator because that's what you really need in open source and everything like that. There's been a lot of changes in the board, the governance model, talk about the big tent and powered by open stack have been really one of the main talks that we've had this week. From your viewpoint in open source, where are we, what's the big move that happened over the last year and are we in good shape for going forward? Yeah, I actually gave a talk on this yesterday. It was titled like open stack governance bridges and hierarchies and what I was really talking about was how healthy open stack communities, like healthy even 21st century social organizations are kind of bottom up non hierarchical organizations and leadership is through empathy and empowerment and trust and all this kind of thing. And it's really, I'd like to kind of set some principles for how we want to get to as a community because I think a lot of people within this community like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of developers contributing here who've never really experienced this kind of community before who aren't really aware of this kind of abstract concept of a non hierarchical organization we're trying to get to and I think we do need some more leadership within the open stack community that's really aware of what we're in for. Some will say that's more kumbaya and that doesn't scale although it is healthy dynamic to have that non hierarchical. I think it's the only way you can scale. Yeah, absolutely. I do think, I mean, hierarchies scale by growing the base. You get larger and larger and you still got one person or two people at the top of it or that doesn't scale in terms of attacking new markets or going up to new kinds of opportunities that we see going on in open stack today. Yeah, the other thing too I want to point out is also the growth in the market is pretty significant. So there's plenty of beach head. So growth hides a lot of the backbiting and the fighting because there's so much beach head there's fruit on all the trees, if you will, for everyone to play. So there's a lot of room. In terms of scaling, they are a developer community that the analogy I use is back in the day like 2004, 2005 when Linus was really struggling to keep up with what was going on and they created distributed version control. They've created this kind of bottom up model and I think with some of the scaling challenges we're seeing in the open stack community, we're going to see a similar kind of turning point where we just find something new. It's interesting, you know, we're a student of all of open source, we've given our industry experience to you guys as well. Linux had something that was going on for it around it which was they had hardware manufacturers.  So that was the, here you don't have that. You have a lot of scale out, open commodity. So there's no real proprietary targets, kind of elusive to say, that's the bad guy. We mentioned lock-in. How does that change our world? I mean, that makes a little bit more frictionless in a way of scaling up. I think it comes down to what, you know, at the end of the day what a company has to deliver to a customer is some value proposition. And so what we're saying, the value proposition shouldn't be in how your code is different than another person's code when the customers are actually trying to do the same thing. Instead it has to be all of the other associated values around that, that they were supporting it, that they're investing in the architecture, that they're making investment in the community itself, taking the feedback from customers, putting that back through the process. So I think in OpenStack we've tried to create a model that allows all those companies to be successful even though what we're not trying to differentiate on is actually the code itself. It's in all of the everything else around the code. I was talking to Stu before you guys came on about this is probably going to be a Harvard case study on OpenStack because it has nine lies, right? Because it's always had these moments of speed bumps where something could have happened, it could have been a marketing program, then vote with your code and the evolution over the years has been really fantastic to watch the adaptability of the core community that the passionate, I call founders, not real founders, but you know what I'm saying, the early kernel of people. So I got to ask you guys your perspective on what's going on today that I think is super successful in OpenStack is that you get the passion and learning and you got people sitting on floors in the technical sessions and then you got the big whales coming in, you got Oracle, Cisco, IBM, HP, EMC, and so the big guys are coming in but they can't dominate, but they have to ingratiate in. So it's a nice balance between that, we're the European Union. So comment on that, why is that successful? Why is it successful? It creates an amazing community culture that's actually really, really hard to establish when you've got lots of companies involved. Everybody in the OpenStack community, all the developers involved, they leave aside their affiliations and they're really representing the interests of their communities. And like I've read that, we struggle really, or not struggle, we actually push that really hard but our developers really mentor them, teach them how to do that. I think that's where we've created this environment where people can collaborate and get stuff done without actually working for like a... So I'll call that developer-first environment. Yeah, absolutely. So it's not company-first, it's developer-first. And one of the benefits though, the OpenStack has brought this methodology about how you develop code in the open to many, many more developers than probably any other project I know of today. I know within Cisco, I'm constantly bringing traditional Cisco engineers who have never worked in this kind of environment into OpenStack, and they love it. I mean, first of all, because developers, quite frankly, they develop code because they want other people to use it, they want to be recognized for that. And that's what happens in an open environment like this. They get recognition, not just from their own Cisco employees but from people they've never met before, from people that are in competitors and they get to learn and be recognized for at the same time. Yeah, so one of the things that really caught my attention this week is some of the new things that people are doing that they couldn't do before. When OpenStack started, it was like, oh, is it the AWS killer? Oh, does it help people get off VMware? But talk about things like NFV, talk about new applications, new business models talking to Kino. Well, what do you see? What's kind of the real proof points that this is going to help drive IT forward in the industry? You know, we alluded to it earlier, looking at the media landscape, moving from hardened appliances now to virtualized systems. Each new, each industry is now going through that. So NFV is a prime example of that, that many of the traditional network service providers or whatever are really struggling. Their costs are, you know, people are willing to pay less and less for those kinds of services and their costs are remaining the same. So they are turning to virtualization. And when they turn to virtualization as a concept, they're going, where's the platform for that? And so that's when they are saying, OpenStack is a platform. So we have OpenNFV, which is taking multiple open source projects and bringing them together into a solution that the carriers can use. What's really interesting for me around NFV is just how we've gone over the past year from people not understanding what NFV is, how it was all about agility, for telco is being able to move faster in terms of the application they're deploying and how it had any kind of relationship with OpenStack, right? So people at first, when they saw this use case, were kind of like, that's not elastic, OpenStack can never do that. But we've worked through the issues and we've kind of seen how it's whether it's IPv6 or whether it's kind of NUMA awareness on compute nodes or whether it's kind of better networking or more flexible networking support or whatever. All of those particular advancements all make sense in a broader context than just NFV. So it's a community of diverse interests and people are kind of able to apply for it. Where's the hotspots guys? Where's the action at and the hot action and also the action where you need to improve faster? For instance, you're out of service by NFV. A lot of pressure on certainly Neutron and other areas within the service provider, but there's a huge different diverse use case. I mean, service providers have different needs and say an enterprise, let's see the scales there. So what's the difference in finding the common needs? Everybody has a need for a platform that works that can be highly resilient, that can be easy to manage, low cost to operation, operate and everything else. So those are common across almost all these cases. So those are foundational. So the foundational pieces are still a big emphasis of where we have to go. But then I think we are seeing this kind of verticalization. NFV, we're seeing it in video. We're seeing that containers. And so here the classic case we've got, are those competing technologies? Cloud computing versus the container model, whatever. In a monolithic you say, yes, but in a distributed world, the needs of the customer ultimately will trump, right? In fact, in the single organization, you probably have needs for both. And so this is where OpenStack is an open community. So we can actually embrace these multiple differences. I've got to ask you on that point, because you're highlighting the thing we were talking earlier, is that this theme that we're seeing from our report, looking at all the data points and the beautiful views here in Vancouver, is a real emphasis of architecture of this show. So there's not a lot of hype. Last year it was at Atlanta, oh, containers, and they weren't even, I thought it wasn't even around them, but they were kind of driving in. So it kind of hijacked the conversation space. Here the conversation in the hallways is really architectural. Architects are here. So to your point, you have a foundational set of platform, but this undefined top of the solution stack, if you will, for lack of a better description, is developing. So yes, architects are here, but I got to ask you, what language do the customers speak? Because one of the things we're saying is that, they don't say I want a platform as a service. They don't say I want infrastructure as a service. They want services. So what is the language of the customer and how are you guys balancing in OpenStack? How to be at least compatible there? Well, I think you're right in that things have evolved over the last year, especially in terms of how we talk about containers. I think, and how people coming to this event are talking about containers. A year ago, it was the new thing. People hadn't necessarily dug into it too much. They now understand it. They understand the challenges about managing the infrastructure under it. And so they are now talking about the applications that they have and the mixture of, they'll be able to run some services in containers and some more traditional applications will run on VMs and how to connect them all together and how the storage and networking integration will all work. It's getting down to real kind of practical how we're going to bring these two modes together and how we're going to integrate them together for specific workloads. It's all about the workloads, right? So we have a question from on the crowd chat here. So crowdchat.net slash OpenStack is our engagement container. Are we calling it kind of a joke on Docker but it's a whole lot of discussion. So David Deans, he's red with red hats. Walmart's keynote and others, the first day has talked less about infrastructure more about business outcomes, which has kind of become cliche but it does mean something. This is a unique turning point where CEOs find some meaning here. I guess what he's teasing out is business outcome is what people want and that is in the eye of the beholder which is the customer. So OpenStack is a resource set of technologies. It's an enabler for those outcomes and that's where we're seeing even Bank of America was saying they want a software defined infrastructure and they define that a couple of things that are matter to them. Agility, speed of new deployments. They need to roll out new services to their branch offices or something that's a pop-up store because they may want to do banking or whatever in a matter of months and so they are moving to cloud to get that kind of agility. Agility is an outcome that a business that can move faster can ward off the disruptors of their business. They want it at lower cost so they need it fully automated. We had Fias Honor from Cisco earlier, you're going back, oh in 1992 when I joined Cisco and I'm like we're kind of having a historical kind of throwback Wednesday when I call it. I said, so I said, okay Cisco made a lot of money with TCP IP as a disruptive enabler and that created internet working and the buzzword now is intercloud or interclouding I'm calling it. But that was an enabler, very disruptive and what happened on top of that was a lot of wealth creation, great outcomes for customers. Cisco became a huge company. What is that today? You mentioned, is it agile? Is it cloud? What is the disruptive enabler? Similar in analog, that's something directly but what TCPI did was enabled in industry, right? OpenStack in the same vein is enabling an industry transformation not just customer outcomes, get vendors, you've got developers. So what's your vision on that guys? Because share, what is the enabler? Is it just being agile? Is it just being faster? Is that the new differentiation? All these things kind of dovetail off that. So for me just preparing for my talk yesterday I've gone back over the agile manifesto and for me that's kind of where this all starts, right? So agile was all about software development and kind of smaller teams and more engaged with business value but it's moved on now to DevOps and how to deliver continuous value to customers and it's about those business outcomes and it's about how to operate your applications and in order to do that you need this automatable infrastructure under that. So to me it's all this kind of continuum of what came from the agile manifesto and what's led there in terms of DevOps and so it's all about new ways of developing software and new ways of bringing software to the market and I think that's what's driving them. It's freedom, it's unshackling innovation, right? So that's essentially enabling, right? And it's getting out of the way of developers. What we've always seen in the past that IT often has been an inhibitor towards application development that you have to trial. It's a trouble ticket to get a server deployed or to get that port open there's something like that. More and more we are automating these systems and they're becoming self-service. Self-service I think is still the strongest. And programmable too. And so it has to be programmable because it's not just through a GUI or something you need to be able to have other systems. Once you make programmable systems start getting tied together. So one system can start to drive the other and you can take through automation the cost of delivering that. That's the lever right there. So I think it used to be about cost now it's about speed. And I think speed Trump's cost every time. If you're competitors out there with a competing offer faster than you are that's serious. Talk about the history of open source. I'll say you know going back to the early days you know the shoulders of giants is what everyone says. But right now we're in an interesting modernization of open source. It's tier one. It's first class citizen. You know surely Red Hat being made their bones by coming as an alternative. Now they're running 10 year SLAs the open stack for three years. Cisco's now in the mix with open stack. What is the open source model for today? It's really interesting and cool right now where you have big companies like EMC transforming their entire operation to be open source. I mean that's where it's due. They never would have done that 10 years ago. So there's a business model now for corporate America and you mentioned earlier the factions. I remember the IETF and IEEE, these W3C all these different committees would be fighting. I think it's the way customers are now demanding that their vendors behave. They are saying I no longer want you fighting and all that will you guys just get together. We used to do it through standards bodies. Get together and figure out the standard because and then we'll buy your wares. Now they're saying we need the implementations of that. So get together so it's community driven software that I think we're using open source as a vehicle to achieve that goal. It goes beyond community. It's actually execution in the open. It is. Absolutely and it's about people realizing what you can achieve through collaboration. But the really interesting thing is it's actually really hard to achieve that kind of community that is really collaborative. It's very easy to push a code out there on good job. It's very easy to create a foundation around your project. It's very easy to put yourself out there but actually to engage people and build that collaborative environment. Open stack is done. But also now customers actually look at the leaderboard so to speak and look at what's been closed. Oh that house has been on the market for two months. Oh it must not be good. With code it's like that's an open item, open issue, hasn't been closed.  It's got nothing going on. I'm not buying this. So customers can actually now audit the progress. Exactly right. So that transparency that's always been associated with open source I think is one of the other things. Yeah so one of the big challenges is it's great when everybody's contributing and everybody's trying to figure out where it's go when the money starts coming in. How do we keep that going? We've had lots of debates as to how many successful billion dollar open source companies are? Well Mark you're working for the one. So when we asked Jim Whitehurst last year why aren't there more? He said because selling free is really tough. Yeah it's really hard. I talked about that in my keynote yesterday. It's like if the software is free why do people pay red hat? And you know the answer I used yesterday was expertise in technical sport. But it's a much broader answer than that. But just in the context of OpenStack I think what we've done that's really interesting is we have brought the money closer to the community but we've centered the money around an OpenStack foundation with a mission to protect, empower and promote the project and not to control the project right? We're really trying to empower the project as opposed to kind of control the direction. And those are the principles that we're looking at. That's why it is the model that we have around how do we form these projects and everything else. But back to your question in terms of the commercialization. There's still an evolution here. We are now, I think the next couple of years what we are all looking for is the whole rest of the ecosystem to get developed out. And they are building then their own solutions on top of OpenStack. Because they have OpenStack it makes it lower cost for them to develop the solutions and to move even faster. And then they will start to compete with each other. Yeah I mean Lou, you can talk a little bit about inside the company, I mean I know you're such a huge proponent of open source and what's going on. Talk about how that shift happens and pushes through because the margins, the sales force, the rate of change is just very different than what the traditional Cisco hierarchy is designed for. Well Cisco more and more has, I mean you've heard John Chambers have been talking about it. We are becoming an IT company which means that we really are selling solutions. The IT, the business outcomes. That's what customers are going to get from Cisco. And so open source is an accelerant for that. Because now we don't have to develop everything. We actually can partner with all of the other companies to develop this software. And therefore go to market faster with our solutions. Also security, some people are also arguing that it's more secure in the open because more eyes are on it versus having some proprietary piece of software. Except for a little bit of open SSL out there. So actually I was talking to Charlie and Collin the other day actually on debate on open source and proprietary. And what we're saying is actually being open is not enough, it's how many inspectors you have. So the reason why that bug persisted so long is that we didn't have enough people looking at it. So you can have it open but then you have to have people looking at it as well. And that's something that we always urge everybody in open stack to be doing that. Reviews count are a very important part of that. We need more eyes looking at this. Otherwise the security issues could remain there forever. Yeah so another real challenge out there is when people install something they tend not to change it. A typical Cisco catalyst, you know, you put the code in, you don't change it. Even on open stack, one of the things that we need to bridge is how do I upgrade from one version to the other non-destructively? You don't need to do that. Do you think we can get to a model where it's more online, it's upgraded? If I go use Amazon or I'm using Office 365 I don't think about my versioning. Absolutely. I think we're making huge advances there and I think it's all about creating kind of an infrastructure for deploying and managing open stacks that's automatable so that you can automate the upgrades. One of the big challenges for handling upgrades for a vendor like Red Hat is our customers can deploy open stack in hundreds of different configurations and in order to support the upgrades of all of those it's quite challenging. So I think we'll be taking an approach of really identifying key use cases and automating the upgrades of those but it's a big challenge for open stack. As we're getting close on time I want to get one question and I almost do might have another one but I want to get your perspective as leaders. I lose certainly your reputation, you've been in a lot of experience. Mark we're going to get your take on as well. As for the technical leads out, you mentioned scale, this thing's going to grow like a weed, I mean open stack is horizontally scaling across industries and obviously scaling up in terms of agile functionality. Being a technical lead for the folks that are coming in what is your advice and what's your vision and etiquette or what's the protocols if you will to be a great lead, to be great technical lead. Is it just herding cats? Is it publishing? Is it doing stuff? What's the norms that are forming in the open stack community that you can share with folks that might be watching and saying hey, you know, you could be a participant and if you want to be a technical lead or take a project and drive it home what are the great use cases, success factors you've seen and share your insight and experience? Well, the advice I give to people is number one find your niche, find some way that you're passionate about that you can find a way to contribute and start from there.  Start setting an example for other people and start showing them how to kind of achieve what you've achieved. Through code or through... Oh, it's getting stuff done. That's the only currency here. So we run as a meritocracy. So developers, you know, elect their leaders so that the leaders who are going to be elected are going to be those people that the developers felt most comfortable with leading them. And so this is what we're hoping to accomplish here. So I would suggest, you know, it really starts from what are you doing for somebody else before you're trying to drive your own agenda. It takes that kind of selfless. It's a social equation. A leader is always selfless. It's always for the team's success, not their own. It's a social equation. I mean, it's just common sense in a way, right?  Can help people. That's right. Contribute code. Post something on the board. Exactly right. That's how it comes back. And I think that therefore the, I've always stressed with my folks that we start to introduce people in open tech, start with reviews. Start doing something for somebody else, pushing other people's code through the system. Then, guess what? You have an instant audience when we now want to go forward with something, it'll be deep level. It creates currency and self-governance currency as well. And that flywheel just is a- It builds relationships and all of this is about relationships and the interactions between individuals. Yeah, I mean, and the fruit that comes off the tree, everyone shares, right? So that is the fruits of the labor. That's the way we operate on the board itself. Come into, and there's a lot of decisions that we have to make. And it's a rather large board and everything else. And we were there to support each other because we have a shared goal and a shared mission that we're after. And it's a lot less about our individual company's agendas, which I think a lot of times people view it that way. There's old benders involved in this. No, we were there because we actually have the experience and we were there to drive the community forward. So Cisco Open was a hashtag I saw or open Cisco or Cisco Open was a hashtag I saw trending on our CrowdChat dashboard. So what does that mean? Is Cisco Open? And is that internally the momentum? And are you winning? Are you winning that fight? Is it well received? Share some insight. I think it's trying to get across there is a new Cisco in terms of how we're looking at software. And that open source is a key part of our strategy going forward, so we wanted to say it with having such a hashtag. Yeah, great, we love that hashtag. Yeah, so the last question I have, since you're both on the board, is love what to kind of the big tent and really the certification, but there's a balance between how do we get it working and how do we keep innovating? And I heard from a few people that said, hey, devs want to work on stuff that's important. And if it's not core, are they going to still be incented to do that? So how do we keep innovating and stabilizing? Those are usually pulling in two different directions. Yeah, I think there's, it's a community of diverse interests. So some people are going to be really passionate, really focused on improving the core and really tackling those kind of really critical use cases to open stack. But there's always going to be people who want to experiment with different models and there's new projects popping up the whole time. I think we're managing to kind of thread that needle and balance between the two really well in open stack. There's no shortage of people who want to work on the core projects and no shortage of people who want to work on innovations. Great to have your insights on theCUBE. Appreciate it, we're stuck for time now. I want to give you guys the final word. For the folks who aren't here, obviously Vancouver, beautiful city, clear skies, no rains, beautiful weather, what's happening here at this show? What's the vibe? Share some color around what's going on at the physical event, your perspectives, the hallway conversations, what's the vibe? Books not here, give them a taste. As you can see, it's tremendously exciting. I, in many ways, keep expecting things to sort of start to level off a bit. If anything, though, the excitement and the participation is just continuing to grow. Yeah, and it's scaling out a lot. It's more exciting in more and more rooms. Yep, yep. There are all we're growing, we can never seem to, you know, we try to figure out how many people in each of these sessions, in each of the sessions have been totally packed.  Look at where all the videos are up, they're up within hours after they're being presented here. So even if you can't make it here, you can participate. And that's what I'll be doing when I go back to San Francisco. I was even doing it myself last night trying to catch up on some of the talks and the number of talks and the different topics. We got our crowd show, we got our crowd page at theCUBE. We're bringing all the data to you. Guys, Lou and Mark, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. We'll be back right back after this short break. Live in British Columbia, in Vancouver, for Pistach Summit, third day, wall-to-wall covers Silicon Angle. We'll be right back after this short break. Thank you. Thank you.