Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, I guess depending on where some of you all are. I hope you all are having a decent, a good, a wonderful, a godly, a blessed week. Obviously things happen.  And so anyway, you guys are familiar with what I put out maybe about a week ago, maybe two weeks, I'm not sure exactly the time some of these videos kind of run together. But anyway, I have an issue with some of the deliverance ministries, certain parts of the deliverance ministries. And so I want to talk to them. And most of them you all know probably will not respond, but today Crystal Sala did. And so we're gonna have this conversation and so I'm gonna bring one in a second, but I wanna say this couple of things to you guys in the chats. Whether you are new, whether you've been here, make sure you govern yourselves accordingly. We may not see all the different things that you say in the chats, but I can promise you this, God does. So we're gonna act like we are believers. We are gonna conduct ourselves, comport ourselves in a way that everyone will be blessed in hearing this. We're not going to, and there's no illusion or assumption on my part, and I'm pretty sure on Chris Park maybe that we're gonna convince everybody. But the issue is though that, and he and I talked about this about a minute or two ago, that some people just won't come on and defend their positions, but he is. And so that's the main thing, to make our points, let you all see or hear, and then decide through prayer, amen. And so let me go ahead and bring Chris on so you all can see that he's here. And so what we're gonna do guys is remember, and by the way, moderators, Diana, Mr. K, Chess, Scott, whomever else, make sure that you guys govern the chats.  Now, obviously if you wanna insult me, no problem. I have no problem with you guys insulting me.  We've got a timeout button.  We have a band button. And so we don't need anyone to act a certain way. It's not about you, it's not about me, it's not about Chris, it's about God. And the whole point is not to be, not to figure out who's right, but find out what's right, amen. And so before we start, a couple of things, Chris was worrying because you know this is YouTube and you never know who you're gonna talk to. Some people might be quick to put a person off, might be quick to mute a person. I've only, I've put one person off. That was last week guys, was that last week? I think it was last week. The guy who wanted to become, talk about hieroglyphics and race and so forth. But other than that, I'll let a person talk. And so this is not a typical debate, it's a discussion, it's not timed, it's not, hey you've got five minutes, I got four minutes and 47 seconds. And so you owe me 13, it's not gonna be one of those kind of things, it's gonna be two men discussing their points. So now, that being said, I've made sure and I told him that I'll let you guys know that I'm not gonna mute him, I'm not going to put him off. The only way that that can happen is he said, and he's assured me that that won't happen, is if it gets to be a point to where it devolves into something that's ungodly, the name, calling, belittling, definitely profanity, well then that's it, okay? Because no one gets glory. I'm not getting ready to have a shouting match on here because again, we want to be smart Christians, amen. And so let's just do this, let's start off with the word of prayer that God will govern this. And so Father, we ask you Lord that you would have your way during this discussion, that you would be seen and you would be heard and your word would be magnified and that you would get glory. God, I pray that this discussion is helpful, that it's edifying, even though we know that everyone will not be convinced, Lord Father, but at least we can at least see how we ought to behave and how we ought to conduct ourselves in our disagreements, Father. So we pray that you have your way that you be glorified in this God. We pray this in your wonderful name, amen. All right, so guys, this is Chris Lasala. I said, I told him this, how we're gonna start I'm gonna ask him one question and that will be how we kind of move our way through. And so here's that first question. The question is to you, Chris, that is why or even really what do you believe the deliverance ministry is? Why do you believe that your form of belief of deliverance ministry and also including casting out of demons is biblical? Well, I believe it's biblical because it's the majority of what Jesus did in his ministry. We were commanded to do it in the Bible, in the book of Mark. Also, there was no point in time where this gift had ceased. There were people that were casting out demons in the Bible that didn't walk with the apostles and the apostles came up to Jesus and asked Jesus if it should be stopped. And Jesus said, no, he said, let it continue because it's good for the kingdom of God. So that's why I believe in it. I've seen it in my life. I've seen it here at the ministry multiple times. I saw people doing it in the book of Acts. Well, I read about it obviously but I see it in the book of Acts. And at no point in time is there anything in the Bible that tells us that this should have been stopped or that this gift no longer exists. Okay, so I can kind of get an understanding, few things. One, and this is one of the questions, but do you believe that Christians can be demon-possessed? Well, we'd have to define demon-possessed. By demon-possessed, do you mean that their spirit can be possessed or that a demon can live inside of them? Control them, possess them, the word that's used that we see in the Greek, it means, and it can be fluid in its understanding to mean possessed, oppressed, controlled or influenced. And so I guess you would have to tell me how you see the word. But yeah, either way, either inside the person, controlling the person, moving the person. Okay, I'll break it down for you. I don't believe that a Christian spirit can be possessed. I don't believe their entire being can be possessed. I believe in the Bible, when the Bible said people were demon-possessed, that the demon was in their physical body, their flesh, not their spirit, because when we get born again, our flesh is not born again, but our spirit is. The Bible says that he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit, not one flesh. The Bible says that in the flesh dwells no good thing. Therefore, the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh. So likely today my opponent will try and make the argument that how could a demon dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit? And I am not coming with the position that the demons dwell in the same place as the Holy Spirit, because I don't believe the demons dwell in the spirit of a person where the Holy Spirit is dwelling. I believe the demons dwell inside the person, yet they're in the physical body, the flesh, intertwined with the soul, yet not the spirit. So do I believe a Christian can be demon-possessed? If your definition of demon-possessed is have a demon living in their body, then yes, I believe they could be possessed. But if your definition of possessed is the devil owns their spirit and their entire being, then no, I do not believe a Christian can be possessed. Okay, so if the demon is, if the possession is with the body, if the possession is controlling the person, controlling the person's body, how does, how does that happen with a believer? And then how is that, is that demon actually put out? Well, like in the book of James, it says no man could tame the tongue in chapter three. And it's talking about Christians.  This is how it happens. When the demon's in the physical body, it causes the Christian to do things they don't wanna do. Like Paul the apostle said, I have a law in my members, warring against the law in my mind. And this law that's working in him causes him to do things that quote, he doesn't wanna do. So this is how it works. They get in the physical body of the believer. The spirit of the believer is born again. The believer, if they're a true saint, they are sealed down to the day of redemption. Their spirit's born again, but there are still demons in their flesh, their physical body, which is why the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit lusts against the flesh. And these two are contrary one to another, like the Bible says word for word. So there's a reason that that flesh is warring against the spirit. And the reason isn't because God is dwelling in the flesh and the entire being of the person is holy. We have a layer to us that's intertwined with our soul that's attached to our physical body, that the Bible describes as the flesh. Jesus Christ said the flesh profits nothing. There's a reason that the flesh profits nothing and the spirit profits and the spirit gives life. And that's because God is not concerned with our physical body, our flesh, which is why the Bible says we will put off that flesh and it passes away like grass passes away because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. This is the realm of the demons. This is where they possess Christians. They do not possess them in the spirit. Okay, so let me ask you a question. When we talk about different possessing the flesh, what does that include? Because I've seen just a few of your videos, not a lot or just portions, where even other folks are broken down, but things like anger, depression, if they've got a, what if they've got something wrong with their body? Like let's say, I don't know, a broken arm or a tumor, things like that. Would you also categorize those things as possession? Of course I would because the Bible does.  Then it says, neither give place to the devil. So biblically, biblically the Bible connects anger to being a demonic problem for the person. The Bible teaches that if a person doesn't reconcile their anger before they go to sleep, that they gave place to the devil inside of their being. Okay, but help me understand this. Where do we find, is there a passage where I can say, where I can see that these things that we deal with in the flesh are a demon? Because- I just gave, I just gave you one. Yeah, but I see, I don't see those as being demon possession. I see those as just normal things that are of, just because we have this flesh, for example. Paul, as he's talking, are we saying that Paul in Romans seven or in Paul, later that Paul had a demon? Later in Romans seven? I mean, you mean in two Corinthians chapter 12? As well as in Romans seven as well. When Paul says the things I don't wanna do, I continue to do. So are we saying that Paul struggled with the devil? And where do we see, and I get that it's your interpretation, you understand that, that's how you see it. But if a person doesn't see it that way, how can that person then see, okay, that is demon possession? Because if you go to two Corinthians chapter 12, he describes it- Let's go there. As an angel of Satan that's in his flesh. A messenger in the Greek Angolos of Satan that's in his flesh, he describes it word for word. All right, let's pull it up. Matter of fact, let me, I'm sorry, let me make this bigger so you guys can see it. All right, let's go, let's put it on the screen. All right, so let's make this a little bit bigger so everyone else can see this. All right, so Paul says, all right, let's start in verse, let's start in verse four. And he heard the things that cannot be told which man, by the way, can you see that, Chris? Yup. On behalf of this man, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. On behalf of this man, I will boast, but on my own behalf, I will not boast except of my weakness. Though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool for I would be speaking the truth, but I refrain from it so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. So to keep me from becoming conceded because of the passing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh and a messenger, I'm sorry, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceded. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me, but he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you for my power is made perfect in weakness. And so now my question is, how is that to say that the thorn in the flesh, and we don't know what the thorn of the flesh is, but how is that to say that the thorn in the flesh is a demon possession? Because he calls it a messenger of Satan in the Greek, it's basically an angel of Satan, and he also refers to it as an it. What else would it be if it was not that? Well, you said it, he referred to what as an it. The messenger of Satan that is in his flesh, some people will say, oh, that's just people that are bothering him from the outside that are tormenting him, but you don't call people it. He calls it an it. Well, hold on, let's go back to this. As I'm looking at it, I don't see the it. In verse eight, three times I pleaded with the Lord this, that, now here's the thing though, the it is not there in the Greek though. So there is no cause to call it an it, right? Well, why does every Bible translation call it that I'm aware of, at least? Well, the it that's referring to, if you're looking for the antecedent of the word, to leave apostate, he's not referring to the messenger, but referring to the thorn in the flesh. So if we're gonna use the word it to be clear, the it's gotta be referring to, because of the case and so forth, it's referring to the antecedent of that, is going to be the thorn. Not the messenger, not whoever that is. And of course the messenger could have been a human, could have been a demon determined to bother him, but it could have been a human, it could have been anything. And so the point is though, the it though, that they refer to, again, it's not there in English, but the word that's used there, where they may draw an it to try to determine what it is, is apostate, which or to leave, it's in sedative, it's referring back to, it's referring back to the thorn or the issue whatever it is in the flesh, but not to the messenger. The thorn is not the immediate antecedent. It doesn't matter. In Greek, the word order doesn't matter, because this is not in the same as this thorn in the flesh. These are in the dative, this is not. The angel or the messenger of Satan is not in the dative. However, the other word for to leave is, and it's referring back to the other words in the same case, which is that thorn in the flesh. And so that's what it's referring to, the it that's referring to there is not referring to whomever this messenger is, it's referring to the thorn in the flesh. Right. Well, that's your opinion, and you've conveniently decided to not take the immediate antecedent, and you've gone to the words before the immediate antecedent. I'm not sure why, but I'm also not sure, I'm also not sure why anybody would think that if this was anything but a spirit, or a spirit causing an illness, or some kind of messenger of Satan causing an illness, has to be a messenger of Satan. If it was a human being or something in Paul's life that he was capable of getting away from on his own, and it wasn't a spiritual matter, he wouldn't need to pray to God three times. Why would he pray for the messenger to leave him rather than the thorn? Because the mess, well, they're the same thing. But see, I don't see that though, and I don't, as a matter of fact, they're not, now here's, this is why I say this, because, and this is just kind of how Greek works, word order in Greek doesn't matter. Now, if we're trying to draw emphasis in certain, in some areas, it does, like when Jesus is speaking to the woman in the well, and he says, husband, he draws that as he's repeating what she's saying. And so there are times where you can use it to get, draw emphasis, but in this case, and I don't think you can find any, I don't think you can find any grammar that would differ because this is just regular Greek rules that is referring to this thorn, this issue, whatever this thorn in flesh is, and so whatever this thorn is. So you don't think the thorn is the messenger of Satan? No, I do not. No, I do not, because again, those two things are in two different case endings, two different cases, two different things that are being described there. And so no, I don't. Now, I've never heard that position. I've heard it often, but my point is though, if you disagree, then I've got to see something in the text that caused me to believe that this messenger is the same as the thorn in the flesh. I don't know. I don't know any other way to view it. If you don't believe that the messenger is the thorn in the flesh, can you explain to us how they're two separate things and why you believe that? Well, here's why I think so. Let me just give you an example. When something happens to us, for example, when I fail at my falling, what I really wanted more than anything else is to get up this issue with the whole legal case and so forth. That was my biggest issue. And then some guys know about my plight, what I've done, of course, I did it to myself, but about going to prison. Now, in the middle of that, what happened was I think the very same thing that Paul dealt with, a messenger of Satan to come and buffet me, I think the same thing happened with him has happened to me, which is this. People came and made all kinds of statements. People came and did all kinds of things. Even to physically do some things. Now, what I cared about wasn't what they were doing or saying, but it was this other issue. And that was what I wanted God to take away from me, that issue. Them, whatever they're doing, it doesn't matter. Now, did I consider them to be messengers of Satan? Do I think that maybe that they were being used by some sort of demonic force? Sure. But was that what I was praying to get rid of? No. I was praying to get rid of the overarching thing, which is this impending, this looming prison sentence. And I think that's the same thing that Paul is doing. Now, and again, according to the text, I have no basis according to the text English or Greek to tell me that the it that's referred to, again, that it's not there in the Greek, because it didn't have to be there, but it's referring back to whatever this thing, this thorn in the flesh is. And so, I don't see it that, and I don't know that anyone can point to one, any other passage or any other things that would say that Paul says though, that the issue that he has in Roman 7 is that we've got this flesh. We're in this fallen world, and our flesh is going to be what it is. And the one thing that wasn't redeemed was our flesh, our soul, our spirit. And so, we're going to have to overcome those things. We're going to have to fight those things and we're told over and over again that we are either doing it now and we will certainly either experientially, not right now or in the future. So, it seems clear to me that Christians are not governed or controlled by, even in the flesh, by the devil or by any demonic forces. Well, I have to say, I've been doing this 10 years and I never heard anyone say that the messenger is not the thorn. I've never heard that before. I don't think we could find that anywhere else in Christianity other than you. I've been doing it for 30 years and I've never heard anyone come up the other way. But listen, whether we agree or disagree on that or not, what has got to be the authority, what sells the argument, it's got to be the scriptures. And if we don't see it in the English, yet the Greek or Hebrew sheds light on it, then what should we lean to? Well, I believe the Greek is even stronger for my position because it calls that messenger an angel of Satan. But anybody can, okay, my point is though, the angel of Satan, the messenger seems to be a person, right? But Paul seems to be complaining about an issue, I think. No, you don't need to pray to God to get rid of a person.  You only need God to get rid of a spirit. Well, hold on, you just said it. I'm sorry, go ahead. You don't need to pray to God to get a person out of your life. You just depart from them physically. You need to pray to God to get rid of something that you can't walk away from physically. You only pray to God for spiritual things. So is, okay, so fine. So that seems like you're saying what I'm saying. I'm saying the thing that was bothering him, bothering him was a thing. Now, what it was, may have been a illness, may have been a literal thorn, who knows. And then that some person came. That's typically what we refer to, Angolais as a person. We really see Angolais as a thing. And so Angolais is a person, what he's referring to is a thing. So if you're saying that a person, if Paul is wanting to get rid of this person, you just said the key was to leave him, either to resist him or to walk away. So it couldn't be, just by what you just said, it could not be a person. It could not be a demon if all he has to do was walk away or resist. That couldn't be the case. Matter of fact, this is the very same Paul who tells us how to fight against him. And so if it is a person, if this is personhood, the thing that's bothering him, whether you just said to walk away from it or resist it, but he can't. He's praying to God to get rid of it, whatever it is. And so this thorn in the flesh is a thing, is an issue, is an inanimate object, whatever it is, might be physical, it might be a literal thorn, who knows? We just don't know. But what's tormenting him is an actual being. I believe it's a being and I also believe that demons are persons, they just don't have physical bodies. But you just say that if it's a being, if it's a demon or being that we can walk away from it, we can just flee or resist it, right? I meant if it was a physical being. What I'm saying is it's not a physical being. It can't just be people in his life that are tormenting him. Because if it was, he would physically walk away. He wouldn't need to keep beseeching God three times that a person physically departs from him, because if he didn't want to be near that person, he would just physically walk away. So it must be a spirit. It has to be a spirit. But aren't we told those spirits, such as a devil, to resist or to flee? Why can't he just do that? He is doing that. He is resisting it. It's not working. And God gave the reason for the sake of his humility that he not be exalted above measure. So he's resisting it. He's resisting it in prayer. He's seeking God. And what happens is God is saying, no, I'm not going to deliver you of this because it's here for your own good for my good purposes. Okay. So I just said two things. If it is a being, if it's a person, if it's a demon, and we already know through scriptures how to handle, how to resist, demonic forces, how to resist the devil, to flee or to resist. So that's what we do with a being. A being can be a human being. It can be a person. I mean, a demonic force, right? Those are things that have personhood that are beings. But an inanimate object, it's an it. Understanding that the it is an actual a little thorn, right? Maybe a rock. Who knows? But this it, he can't flee that. He can't flee away from the inanimate object, whatever the issue is, or it might have been a sickness. Who knows? He can't flee from that. And he's praying God, get this up off of me. But if it's a being, if it's a demonic force or people, he can't go anywhere, right? He can't get away from them. And so it has to be referring to, and notice what Paul doesn't do. Neither Paul. Matter of fact, and I'll say this as well. We never see, we never see throughout the New Testament with all the things that are happening. Paul is writing to the Church of Corinth or to our Philippi. Any of these churches, James writes, John writes, Peter writes, the one thing they never deal with in terms of people's walk in people's life is they never say, guys, the issue is this, you have a demon and it needs to be delivered. He never brings that up. And so if these are demons, and this is an issue, why wouldn't they, especially when he's talking to Timothy and Titus, here he is, he's trying to counsel Timothy and Titus on how to be pastors and how to teach others to be, excuse me, to be pastors. Paul never says, you know what, make sure you let these folks know about these demonic forces and how to cast out demons. That never comes up. Why is that? Why is no one telling Paul that he ought to have his demon cast out? Well, number one, Paul knew that's why he's praying to God to be delivered of this messenger of Satan that's in his body. Number, and also, by the way, they don't need to tell people in the early church that they need to cast out demons because nobody was that ignorant that they needed to cast out demons. Jesus cast out demons. Hold on, I didn't get a chance to answer. Jesus cast out demons. Paul cast out demons right in front of everybody in the New Testament. So if they're doing it, if they're doing it in the New Testament and Paul was doing it in the Book of Acts and Philip was doing it in the Book of Acts and Jesus did it, why do we need to go around telling hey, you're my brother in Christ. Cast out demons. It's so obvious that you would literally need to be blind to not see it, that you need to cast out demons. Here's why you would do it. The same way you guys would say to someone else that they ought to do it because if it's so obvious, we would see it and it would have never stopped. But here's the other thing. Paul's audience aren't Jews and so they're not accustomed to seeing this. They didn't grow up or come around seeing these things happening. So when Paul goes to Corinth or when Paul goes to Philippi or Paul goes to Colossians places, they literally have not seen demons being cast out. Here's the other thing. So we can't say that they knew that it was obvious. Again, if it was obvious, why wouldn't you speak the obvious? Paul nor James nor John nor Peter ever shy away from the other obvious things which is live holy, live godly, come to Christ. Those are clearly obvious and that's the whole point of their gospel, the whole point of their preaching is about that. That's obvious and they never fell at teaching that. And so it just seems mind boggling just to me that they wouldn't talk about this or bring it up. Well, are you denying that they were doing this in the New Testament? The Apostles? Well, if I go and look up the word either demon possession, demons, singular or plural. If I go over and look up oppression and the Greek word that's there that we see when Paul or Peter or any of the apostles in the beginning are casting them out. The word that's used there here's what's interesting. There comes a time where we don't see that word ever used again. Here's why we don't see that word used ever again. We see it in the Gospels and we see it in Acts. We don't see it after that. Why? Because at the founding of the church there needed to be the signs and miracles as it says in John and there's several scripts to talk about how these people won't believe unless they see these signs and so they came Jesus came, Paul came, the other apostles came with these signs and wonders to give validity to the people at the beginning of the church. After the church is founded in Acts we don't see this whole issue coming about. Why is it they'll talk about it in Acts but they won't talk about it in 1st and 2nd Corinthians or Ephesians? The reason why is because there's no more need. Here's why. Now this is my contention. I believe that there are demonic forces. Paul tells us that, right? We know that there are demonic forces. We know that there are evil forces out there and so something happens that's different from Acts to and the Gospels. Something's different. What's different is now the Spirit is literally in them and so what the remedy is is no longer if a demon is present to cast a demon out or to rebuke a demon, no the remedy now is to come to Christ because he says that whom he says free is what? Free indeed. His whole ministry as he says prophesied in Isaiah and then spoken of he says in Luke that he has come to set the captives free. Well if he's come to set the captives free did he not set the captives free? I believe he did and so I don't think that someone else coming coming back later needs to come and do what Jesus has already done and I think that's why we don't see anywhere after Acts. We don't see anyone doing these possessions. No one is ever told, we're not even told not so much how to cast out a demon we're not even told that anyone has a demon after the founding of a church and so that's why Well they were doing it after Pentecost when everybody got the Holy Spirit so your theory that something happened at some fantasy moment at the end of the book of Acts what happened because they were casting out demons after they received the Holy Ghost who were they casting demons out of? Your whole argument is shocked at that. Remember here's the founding of the church Jesus says that you will be my witnesses to who? To the Jews, to Jerusalem Judea, to Samaria and to the rest of the world. At the founding of the church there's three people actually there's four people groups that need to receive the Holy Spirit the fourth people group is like the first which is John's disciples they are still running around the countryside saying repent the kingdom of heaven they're still doing their job right but in terms of people group and to fulfill what Joel says and then what Peter brings up again in Acts that he will pour his spirit out on all types of people all kinds not everybody because we obviously everyone didn't get the Holy Spirit and so he did it in that order he went to the Jews first then secondly he went to the Samaritans and then lastly he went to the Gentiles and so once each people group received the Holy Spirit there are no more mentions of anyone having a demon possession no more the reason why and it can't okay well where do we see after the founding of the church that people are still receiving the Holy I mean still being having demons cast out of them well you have Philip in the book of Acts casting out demons you have Paul casting out the demons out of the demon possessed girl the slave girl where is this though is it in the founding of the church though Philip is talking to Samaritans right this was after the Holy Spirit was already poured out at Pentecost no you missed my point my point is this the Holy Spirit came to who first the Jews then let's say with Philip when Philip is down in Samaria speaking to them they believe but they have not received the Holy Spirit and this is what I said the differences between Acts and the Gospels versus the rest of the Bible the Holy Spirit if it's in you no I understand your point but it's irrelevant because the Spirit doesn't dwell in your flesh in the flesh dwells no good thing is the Holy Spirit a good thing is the Holy Spirit born again yes or no no excuse me is the flesh born again yes or no no excuse me so then why do you have why are you making an argument that states the Holy Spirit that makes it impossible for a demon to live in the flesh when you yourself know that the flesh is not born again and in that flesh dwells no good thing therefore the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh correct but my point is this if anyone were to say that they will cast out a demon right they have to admit that they do so by the power of God the Holy Spirit I'm saying that very same power that you guys are casting out is now and it's going chronologically into the bodies into the lives of these men what is it going in their flesh hold on hold on hold on so my point is this though the one thing that's different all throughout Acts so when Philip goes down there these people have not received the Holy Spirit then Peter and John come down now the Samaritans receive the Holy Spirit then later on even with Lydia and so forth we see other people receiving the Holy Spirit after all the people groups in Acts have received the Holy Spirit there is no more mention of anyone being demon possessed and there's no more mention of anyone having to cast a demon out because the solution now is not to cast a demon out the solution now is that they be indwelled by the Holy Spirit the solution now is to come to Christ hold on you're literally making this up this is nowhere in the Bible the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the flesh so you making an argument that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit puts an end to demons living in the flesh give me an example where it doesn't give me an example where someone who has the Holy Spirit has a demon possession other than Paul because we can't make that argument give me an example why don't we even see the word demon possession anywhere after Acts anywhere after all the different groups have received the Holy Spirit because you're saying that that doesn't make sense but you're saying that very same power the Holy Spirit is casting demons out of people's flesh but if I've got the Holy Spirit in me that's not enough to cast a demon out of someone's flesh that's the part that makes sense to me yeah but your misconception is is that no one had the Holy Spirit until Pentecost no one was filled with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost that's correct that's not true Jesus was breathing on people and telling them to receive the Holy Spirit okay did they receive the Holy Spirit did they receive the Holy Spirit no they did not as a matter of fact you won't find one Greek grammar one Greek grammar or grammarian that will tell you matter of fact what it was was the word was given as a vocative as a command so he's telling that you to receive the Holy Spirit not then as a matter of fact Jesus comes back and says you will receive the Holy Spirit wait a second Jesus how can you say you will receive the Holy Spirit or we will if we already received it the Holy Spirit has not come to dwell in man at that point now had it come in times temporarily to rest on a person like it did Samson sure but never was anyone in dwell was anyone baptized in the Holy Spirit that didn't happen until the day of Pentecost no actually there's Bible verses that support that Old Testament saints had the Holy Spirit I didn't say they didn't have it I said baptized or in dwell with it it was in them in the Old Testament Moses Joseph let me let me let me let me let me finish my statement go ahead I'm sorry are you saying when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit that they didn't receive it that's exactly what I'm saying well that's heresy you say it's heresy I say it's biblical so your your position is Jesus said he breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit before Pentecost and then that just didn't work that that was a failed if they received it why did he tell them they're going to receive it later because they're receiving another measure of it at Pentecost so when John says and then Jesus verifies that you will be baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus I'm telling you that every Greek grammarian will tell you that when he says that it is a command now they didn't receive it now we know it's later because he comes back a few a few days later and tells them that they're going to receive it so the Greek bears out and this is why I say guys this is why it's important that we all can have an opinion my opinion is no more valid than Chris and Chris's opinion is no more valid than mine or yours or I right and so in the end we got to let the scriptures be the authority but if the English scriptures don't don't settle it and we can find a key or we can or it can be more settled in the Greek or the Hebrew and we would be wise to listen to it and again you will find that Greek grammarians will also agree with what I'm just saying those who read it I'm not sure what your familiarity with Greek is I haven't asked you that but I'm not sure what it is but it's clear in the Greek that he's giving a command for them to receive it and it would make sense that if they did receive it for him to tell them that you're going to receive it again now you're saying that another measure he didn't say that you're going to receive the Holy Spirit and then what happens the Holy Spirit does come upon them and dwells in them that's the baptism of the Holy Ghost a Holy Spirit that John talks about and that Jesus verifies and that we see on the day of Pentecost and then every people group there after once they received it there is no more mention of a demon possession after that that has to be counted some kind of way it has to be reconciled well there it there is I mean you just want to start breaking it down where they're not Jews and they're different people group you start slicing and dicing the Scripture so you could eliminate the deliverance ministry because that's what you need to do you need to hyper dispensationalize the entire text so every crime I bring up a situation where a demon is cast out you say oh well that's yes that happened but that's only because she's a Canaanite and that happened but she was a Gentile I'm saying this in the Bible this kind of being having the Holy Ghost has nothing has no bearing on whether a person has a demon or not because the demon doesn't live in the spirit it lives in I keep telling you but you keep trying to say the fact that they have the Holy Spirit means they can't have a demon anymore do you can I get just your final position on this it can the Holy Spirit dwell in the flesh can the Holy Spirit dwell in the flesh the Holy Spirit control the flesh well why does the Bible say the flesh lusts against the spirit and these two are at odds with one another well so is the Bible saying the flesh lust because the flesh actually has a personality no he's speaking about just our normal fallen condition and that part is still there he didn't necessarily mean the actual flesh he means our nature that we are still having to get rid of and so we are being sanctified it's a process and so yeah the flesh doesn't have an opinion that it didn't have a personality and have a desire in other flesh it's not like my finger says you know what I want to go this way and this figure says no and so we've seen the Holy Spirit come up on flesh and use flesh as Samson where that's clearly God not the spirit not the Holy Spirit in the spirit no this is taking over his flesh right that's a fleshly action that's a physical action and so I believe the power of the Holy Spirit and this is what I believe true deliverance ministry is I believe true deliverance ministry is Christ coming in us Christ being our savior the spirit in us and that we are delivered from those things and those things cannot have dominion over us that's what I believe the deliverance ministry is I think that's it makes Jesus the forefront of any sort of deliverance versus having a man saying that well no not quite you need me to pray over you right but what you're saying about the Holy Spirit controlling sinful flesh is not biblical because in Galatians chapter 5 it says that the spirit and the flesh are contrary one to another and they cannot agree with one another it is impossible so your doctrine that the Holy Spirit can control the flesh is unbiblical it's nowhere in the Bible so the Holy Spirit can't control the flesh no because the flesh is at war with the spirit of God hmm all right let's do this let's uh what is this passage yet uh now when we talk about the word flesh we need to mind the Greek word sarks has multiple meanings so it could mean the skin it could mean sinful human nature it could mean physical people so when I'm talking about the flesh we need to stay in contact with what I'm talking about we could find verses that say that God will pour his spirit out on all flesh note first off it doesn't say in all flesh it says on all flesh but when it when it's using the term in that sense it means God will pour his spirit out on all people at no point will his spirit dwell in the flesh of fallen man meaning the sinful element of the physical body because in that flesh dwells no good thing and we know the spirit of God is a good thing and this is where the demons dwell okay so hmm when a person has let's say for example they have um I don't know anger if a person has a wrath or they have some sort of sexual desire is that a demon of course the bible says you will do the lusts of your father the devil so satan owns those natures satan owns them it also says if you let the son go down on your anger you give place to the devil okay so when we talk about those issues we're told how to fix those things how to correct those things right by the spirit right according to Galatians Galatians tells us that if we are led by the spirit then those things that you say are controlled by a demon such as sexual morality impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy all those things bits of anger, rivalries those things are gotten rid of by the spirit you're saying though no they're not there has to be another there has to be a casting out of that demon but Paul is saying clearly that those things are gotten rid of by the spirit how do we get the spirit through God through the word of God through Christ right and so I'm saying again I'm in bible country if you have the spirit where the spirit of the Lord is what is it there is liberty there is no shackling there's no bounding there's nothing there's nothing binding you but you are completely free by that and so and the point that I have the issue that I have is this it makes Jesus out of it almost this is me I'm not trying to be mean but it comes across as a different gospel as though Jesus is not sufficient enough no Jesus what you did was the first step now we need someone else to come and cast this demon out because you didn't do it oh no brother brother because if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh how do you do that you walk in the spirit if you're focused and guided by the spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh but guess what they're still there they exist okay but my question is let's say let's say I'm sorry go ahead won't hold on your it's really choppy yeah it is go I'm sorry I didn't hear that say what you just said a second ago what I said is if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that doesn't mean they don't exist or they're not dwelling in the person it just means the person puts their will behind their spirit and not by the compulsions of the flesh you have a doctrine you have a doctrine where if someone gets the Holy Ghost their flesh just evaporates and there's no demonic nature to them whatsoever and that's just not biblical no no no I'm saying there's always a battle and as a matter of fact the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but their mighty God gives us these weapons and so when a person I may ask you this question if a person is not walking in the spirit because if they're walking you say if they're walking and I agree if they're walking in the spirit then those things won't happen to them but let's say all of a sudden this person is dealing with I don't know envy and so wouldn't the wouldn't the recourse the solution be to turn around and start walking in the spirit or would the recourse for them to get rid of the thing to get rid of jealousy or what have you is either the recourse for them is either get have a demon cast out of them or to turn around and start walking in the spirit which one is which one would you say well that well that's a false dichotomy because the answer is to do both well if I do the first one why would I need the casting out then because you want to buff it the nature of your flesh even if you're walking in the spirit you don't want to have that pull towards sin as much as you used to have and when the demon comes out of the flesh your nature changes so your battle with sin won't be as difficult whether you're walking in the spirit or not you could walk in the spirit and do a good job at doing that and you could still have demons in your flesh that are all they pulling you to sin but you just said I'm sorry but you just said if a person is walking in the spirit then they won't have those issues no no no I said they won't fulfill them I said they will have them in their nature but they won't be fulfilling those aspect those works in their life they won't be going along with the sin so if a person is walking in the spirit if a person is they're reading they're praying they're fellowshiping they're praising and worshiping God and they have these struggles are you saying that they need to along with walking in the spirit along with reading and praying and worshiping and so forth they need to also have that demon cast out of them many times yes I am saying that okay so let me ask you this question so you would assume that for everybody would you assume the same thing for yourself then that you would also need to have demons cast out of you absolutely now find that in the scripture find that where Paulus is saying that or James or Peter or anyone else is saying that we also not only walk in the spirit but also have a demon cast out of us because why is he saying just walk in the spirit why doesn't he also because walking in the spirit is also evident why wouldn't he say tag right along with that to also have a demon or have some sort of demonic exorcism why is he not saying that Jesus said deliverance is the children's bread a Canaanite woman asked him for deliverance for her family member he said why should I throw quote the children's bread to the dogs deliverance is for the children of God deliverance is not for the children of Satan biblically it's only for the children of God even the demoniac on the coast when Jesus came there the man threw himself down even that lunatic that was not in his right mind had the wherewithal to worship Jesus deliverance there was nobody in the bible nobody not one who got deliverance that wasn't a believer in Jesus and his father or the authority over them was a believer in Jesus and the father but you see what you did but you see what you did you referred to and you'll always have to just like the other guys will always have to they'll always have to refer to someone prior to being born again prior to having the spirit of God again we can't point to one this is your problem you can't find a moment in time where this was ever commanded where it ceased it doesn't matter if I can't find and I can and I will we'll cover that today but it doesn't matter if I can't find anything at all after Pentecost you cannot show where deliverance came to an end and you won't give me a direct answer and admit that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the flesh I said the Holy Spirit I said the Holy Spirit can control the flesh well that's not biblical okay you say I say it is the Bible says they're contrary one to another they're contrary one to another and they cannot agree the flesh cannot agree with the spirit that's Bible so what are you saying so we got this flesh that does what it wants to our spirit that wants to do something else so we all are going to just be running head on in the traffic because we have no control over our flesh although Paul says to us that we should have dominion over it but you're saying we can't no I'm saying we need to put our will behind the spirit and not the flesh I believe this the deliverer came and once the deliverer came deliverance showed up because here's the thing and I did this I don't know how many days ago a day or two maybe three days ago about what I call the true deliverance ministry and I wanted to show where the because if you just were in Hebrew, Greek, English just look up the word deliverance you don't see it often in the New Testament you see it a few times in the Old Testament the word for deliverance is yoshia it's part of the root word yasha which is where we get the word yashua which is Jesus same thing in the Greek the word for deliverance is soterion which is where we get the word salvation or savior and so I'm saying that true deliverance comes from the savior you have no deliverance so running around delivering people who aren't saved but once Christ is in you you are set free and what James says is this let me put it on the screen James brings up a statement obviously we know about James 4 and 7 that we ought to resist the devil and he shall flee but James 513 says is anyone among you suffering now when he says that he doesn't say if anyone is among you suffering let him have a demon cast out he says no let him pray let him sing praise is anyone among you sick what does he say there's no mention of demon possession or anyone having a demon cast out he says let him call for the elders of the church let him pray over him with anointing with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of the faithful will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up and so here we have an example where someone through whatever he's talking about either suffering sickness what have you his solution is to pray it's not call for someone to lay hands and cast a demon out no when they come and lay hands they don't cast him out they pray and the person's effectual prayer will save them and so again when we've got a clear example of an opportunity when an opportunity presents itself for I mean like the red carpet rolled out for demon casting to happen and it doesn't James says let him pray well it does when Paul casts a demon out of a slave girl it happens when Philip cast out demons it happened and it all happened after Pentecost after the pouring out of the Holy Ghost not with everybody no no you've invented that that's just your way a side step in the scripture so I'm not so you mean to tell me that it doesn't matter that the Holy Spirit came on different people groups at different time that doesn't matter no no okay I already answered that the Holy Spirit brother does not dwell in the flesh so I don't care if the Holy Spirit poured out on everybody the demons are living in the flesh and the Holy Spirit doesn't live in the flesh so now can you tell us can you tell us all what the Holy Spirit being poured out has to do with this issue at all can you explain that to me when we've already covered the topic that nothing good dwells in the flesh because the Holy Spirit helps to control the flesh all those things okay you just say that those issues that we talked about in Galatians those are those demonic issues and you said those demonic issues are of the flesh and Paul's a retort is the spirit so the spirit over and over again is the one bomb the cure the spirit and I'm saying that when the spirit comes in someone that is God the spirit is in you and then that person gets delivered there's a reason why we see it happening to the Jews first to the Samaritans and to the Gentiles that way every people group will be known to have had the Holy Spirit that no one that the Jews would never be able to say you know what yeah everyone those are believers those are Christians but they don't have the Holy Spirit like us no they're not delivered like us again we see that happening and as a matter of fact it's recognized they even see this and here's the thing though when I when I when I notice these these these deliverance happening and these different these different churches would have you be it you or the Baganis of the world or the sound of ours or whomever it is here's what we don't see we don't see believers and non-believers non-believers everybody in unison knowing about it affirming it now in the scriptures we everyone whether they be a non-believer or a believer they all affirm that this miracle happened but when when you guys do it there that doesn't seem that that the same thing that I see in the scriptures I don't see here I don't see an overwhelming affirmation as a matter of fact what happens more than that is believers doubt it huh you don't want to see you don't want to see it but you know who else didn't want to see it the Pharisees didn't want to see it the the Jewish rulers didn't want to see it but they saw that's right but the difference is they they saw it and they accepted it no no they saw it and they called it demonic no they did not no what do they call demonic they call Jesus Beelzebub he they said he was casting out demons by the power of the devil and what and I'm glad you went there because what was Jesus his point when they called him Beelzebub he says speaking about demons being cast out he speaks about the spirit he says you cannot come in and bind that spirit how can someone come in and bind that spirit so no guess what what you just said no no no that's not what he said at that point he said how could Satan cast out Satan and then his kingdom is divided against himself then he accused them of blaspheming the Holy Ghost you're reading a scripture from another area of the word he has to first according to Matthew 12 29 he has to first bind the strongman in our bodies as a believer who's a strongman in our body who would you say that is it depends where you're asking in your flesh or in your spirit in order for there to be a demon Jesus is talking about in the Pharisees these Jews are talking about a demon him having a demon and he he says yes and he says that a person huh when he talks about when he talks about a strongman he's not talking about the strongman in their spirit he's talking about demons in their physical body that makes no sense it makes no sense to you because you don't understand and you've never been part of a deliverance ministry no actually I have actually I have sometimes people make the assumption that I have not but I did it was part of a charismatic Pentecostal church and that was going on and the one thing I noticed though that's not real what's not real you don't know what the church was it was real or not I'm saying they're doing the exact same thing that you're doing no they're not why because when I pray for people they expel demons they don't flop around on the floor like an electrocuted codfish okay hold on when you do it with all due respect you do it and people just spit up they expel they expel unclean breath come out in spit because as that unclean breath the force of it coming up through their throat in their airway draws up all the spit and the fluids that are stuck to their esophagus in their throat can you give me book chapter and verse I don't need to yes you do have to give me book chapter and verse if we're going to believe it give me book chapter and verse that says casting out of demons ended let's try that give me one that says it continued yes I can I can show you where people that weren't walking with Jesus that weren't walking with Jesus were casting out demons and he said forbid them not because he gave them that power he never did he not he never stopped he didn't listen the reason why they were doing that because what was not present at the time that Jesus was casting out demons there was no people did not have the death burial and resurrection they did not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit as what first happened on the day of Pentecost to the Jews then to the Gentiles then to the Samaritan that hadn't happened once the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit you don't see demon anymore you only see the Bible talking about them having to walk in the Spirit and so forth that's all you ever see that's not true because there were people at Pentecost who were from all different nations of all different tongues of all different tongues and there were people that witnessed it what about the people that witnessed it show me an axe too show me an axe too anyone there that was not Jewish it doesn't matter it's the people that witnessed the event we don't even know we don't even know that any non-Jews witnessed it all we just have what the text says and all we know is that the people that received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost were only Jews they were Jews from different regions but they were Jews it's irrelevant it's very relevant no it isn't because the Holy Spirit being in the flesh never takes place it doesn't matter if you want to keep talking about the pouring out of the Holy Ghost as a means to shut off deliverance ministry the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the flesh you keep using the same argument but it holds no water to you it doesn't to the overwhelming majority it can't be you either does the Holy Spirit live in the flesh does the Holy Spirit live in the flesh yes or no what is Jesus talking about here in Matthew 12 then what the strong man their issue was their issue was what their issue was him having a demon Jesus' retort to them was you have to first bind the strong man and I asked you what is the strong man that he's referring to what could it possibly be the strong man is a demon in the person's flesh that he's referring to so you have to first bind so the demon has to first bind the demon why would you bind the Holy Spirit are you insinuating that's the point in order for you in order for Jesus to have been possessed he would have had to have his spirit bound you can't bind that strong man that same spirit lives in us and so before any of us can be possessed physically as well as spiritually either or there has to be some sort of binding of the strong man in our case the Holy Spirit what's the strong man in our case in order for this are you saying Jesus was telling them to bind the Holy Spirit I'm saying it can't be done that's my point here's what you're saying you're saying that a demon can help control the flesh but you're saying the Holy Spirit can't have any governance over the flesh so think about what you just said no what I'm saying is it doesn't want control over the flesh because the flesh profits nothing according to Jesus Christ meaning that when a person is possessed they're possessed in the flesh so in other words a demon can control the flesh can have influence over the flesh but the Holy Spirit can't make that make sense to me well that's what the Bible says it says they're contrary one against another and they cannot agree this isn't my doctrine yes it is alright you want me to read you the exact scripture that says they are at odds with one another and they will I get that but what I'm saying is you keep you keep forgetting the part where it says they cannot agree they cannot okay go to that passage let's go to that passage give it to me I'll type it in we'll put it on the screen let me pull up the exact number it says one is contrary to another and they cannot agree it's Galatians 5 17 no the flesh I'm going to read it okay let me put on screen so I can I'm going to read it while you're pulling it up for the flesh for I'm going to read to King James for the flesh craves what is contrary to the spirit and the spirit what is contrary to the flesh they are opposed to one another so that you could not do what you want but but if you are led by the spirit you are not under the law that doesn't contradict the prior say okay keep going we'll keep going hold on I only got a snippet of it up you want me to keep going? I do alright hold on well verse did I just read 17 yeah you stopped it off in 18 yeah stopped it off in 17 alright I'm going to go 16 and onward this I say then walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill hold on where are you where are you okay 16 alright there it is this I say then walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh for the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh and these are contrary one to another so that you cannot do the things that you would but if you are led by the spirit you are not under the law now the works of the flesh are manifest which are adultery fornication on cleanness idolatry witchcraft variants you want me to keep going emulations wrath strikes seditions heresies envies murders drunkenness revelings and such a like of which I tell you before as I've told you in times past that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God but the fruit of the spirit is joy love peace long suffering goodness faith meekness temperance against such there is no law and they that are Christ have crucified the flesh with the afflictions and lost so we can stop there then can't we because you just said it's not an issue of the flesh is the spirit he just said he started off at the very beginning in verse 16 that you read he says but I say walk by the spirit and what will happen you will not gratify the desires of the flesh or as you saying the demons of the flesh and then what he says it as you how you ended it but and those who belong to Christ let me put it back on the screen and those who belong to Christ and those who belong to Christ Jesus hold on have crucified excuse me the flesh with its passions and desire so the very past you went to prove what I've been saying if you've got the spirit if you are led by the spirit if you belong to Christ according to that passage you have crucified the flesh the flesh and its desires how then can that person be led by doing this is so easy to disprove okay how many how many times does a Christian have to crucify their flesh just one time or every day of their entire life well those who again if you are if you belong to Christ you have Jesus you have crucified the flesh with his passions and desires so if you belong to Christ if you are a real Christian of what we call in you know in the south in the hood a show enough Christian and you've got the spirit in you guess what has no longer dominion over you and so he says was Paul a show enough Christian yes he was because he said I die daily yep because that's what Christians do if you are exactly if you are Christian it's a normal process and what never happens according to this passage you went to is that you never have to you are never under the control of the devil or the flesh or any demon because you have because you belong to Christ and your flesh has been crucified as well as his passions so now if a person out there whoever is listening if you're out there and you've got these issues you're struggling with these issues the issue isn't that you need a demon I mean someone to cast a demon out what you need is Jesus you need the deliverer you need the the soterion you need the you're the issuer you need Jesus you need deliverance you need deliverance he's the deliverer he's the deliverer and that's the gospel the gospel is deliverance but you're saying he's not the deliverer enough no I am saying because every time all the people I'm saying need deliverance get it by the power of Jesus and that's enough so why then do we need why then do we need Chris or Isaiah or Mike or anyone else to come by and lay hands on us because that's what Jesus commanded that we cast out devils and speak with new tongues who do you tell that to it's a great commission he told it to everybody and it was not cancelled okay the bible says where to walk as he walked it doesn't say where to watch him cast out demons every day everywhere he goes and then stop doing it because Corey said so we walk as he walked we are to raise a dead like he did we are to walk on water like he did we are to heal everybody like he did we are to give sight to the mind like he did and we are also if we're gonna walk like he walked we are to be crucified on the cross like he was no that's never what he meant no no you just changed the context from miracles to atoning for the sins of the world that's no you just no the context is miracles when it says where to walk as he walked and character miracles works and character it's not telling us nobody would ever say where the bible says that we're to walk as he walked that we're supposed to go out and try and sacrifice ourselves for the sins of the world so so here's my question that's like a straw man argument okay I mean you're gonna say that let me ask you a question because you say you are saying that the deliverance ministry that you're talking about is a miracle it's a ministry of miracles right the cast of demons out as a miracle was the last time in the scripture that a miracle happened and the people who were there even the non-believers did not believe it it was always known there's no miracle in the bible we can go to say hey you know we can die because a matter of fact even even the Jews who are against them said this even we can't deny that something great has happened so even even the non-believers as a matter of fact when these things happen you see the non-believers flocking to these people who are demonstrating or have these signs underneath them right and so what I'm saying is we don't see that here in the world today we see it happening at certain people's church and what we also don't see is this the overwhelming majority of believers on the planet the overwhelming and that granted I can't tell you who all is an actual believer who all not but the overwhelming of showing of believers is at that the overwhelming majority of people who put their time and effort into studying scriptures disagree with you now is that does that mean anything biblically no but this makes you wonder what in the world kind of spirit are they getting what understand are they getting where you guys get a totally different understanding how was the spirit working in us it's the exact same as Jesus and I'm going to prove it right now because Jesus said for if the miracles that were performed in you had had been performed in Sodom it would have remained to this day meaning you people are so blind and stupid that you don't even understand what I'm doing is the greatest thing that ever happened to you you ignore these miracles and you go on pretending like this is not real this is just one big joke you give it no attention and you ignore me that I'm the son of God and and you ignore that I'm the Messiah so well well look that it happens the same way when people do the works of Jesus today people ignore it that's biblical people don't believe it Jesus said many times how is it that you do not believe this was like an ongoing problem like I can't believe you're making this argument but I believe there's thousands of people that believe and don't see this now let me tell you what I know to be true deliverance okay because I hear people always say that and you made the assumption and I'll say incorrectly that I've never experienced that I never belong to that sort of a ministry where I did the very first church that I belong to and still love those people dearly at that church they do that they believe in that okay and so they would say to you hey amen to what you're saying I was and so I was part of that okay now what I would say is this what I saw true deliverance when I've seen I've seen people struggling with homosexuality I've seen people struggling with all sorts of lust with anger with violent bits of rage I'm talking about at the drop of a hat they would want to slap you or stab you or stick you or whatever okay I've seen it I've seen people struggle with depression and you know how they were delivered and I've got I've got my record keeping because I've got people that can say you know what that guy right there what were they delivered of what were they delivered of I just told you they were they were delivered of sexual sin sexual promiscuity they were you said you said it was they were delivered of homosexuality they were delivered do you say it you say it is you're right you're right it's demonic you agree it's demonic and how were they delivered when I gave in the gospel I keep talking about the guy I'm gonna say his name but my buddy who was a white supremacist who was in the area of brotherhood he ain't the only one there's been a couple others those who were gay those who had this fetish for children fetish for children those who were violent when they were killed what happened was they received the gospel Christ and they don't walk like that and you know who can testify of that not just them but the people who knew them the guy who was in homosexuality now his wife and his children verify that the guy who had this with kids delivered from and now he's teaching them so my point is that's all that they needed yeah but I know well that's all that they needed in that instance and I don't know this is this is like your philosophy the gospel delivers people so we don't need casting out of demons yeah resisting deep well let me finish resisting demons delivers people so we don't need casting out of demons guess what else delivers people of demons well casting out of demons why okay and so again he never why then why then Chris do we never see it in where the people in in in Corinth not important enough to hear this message or the people in in Ephesus or Philippi why don't we hear it talk then why don't why don't Paul tell Timothy or Titus to do the same thing why don't we see it anymore the only answer I could give you is because they all already knew it's like me telling you believe in Jesus Corey how do Gentiles who are not brought up in that who never saw how do they know but it's so obvious that it's a no brainer but no Chris I wouldn't go up to my my wife and say next time you go to the bathroom use the toilet not the floor because I know that she's been doing that all her life okay Chris when did when was a demon a demon cast out in Corinth remember now we're talking about some of these churches Paul Paul never even visited but he writes a letter to why is it that we don't see them telling them how to do it they never saw it all these churches that were planted didn't get to see Paul but yet Paul didn't tell them and remember these aren't Jewish churches these are Gentiles so they didn't grow up seeing they didn't know anything about Jesus casting out in this matter whatever they didn't see that so why didn't why doesn't he tell them why doesn't Paul admonish Timothy or Titus remember if they've got this issue to cast a demon out but why doesn't he do that because I already told you they all know that already how okay if I've never seen why do you why do you think they talked about healing do you think they just decided to get rid of deliverance but they kept everything else they kept the the gift of tongues they kept healing and just because you don't see it in those books it just evaporated and smoke when you have no biblical evidence of just because I don't see it mean doesn't give me a reason to say I should see it it's not there for a reason God listen what God isn't is he's not absent minded to think that or forgetful or I forgot to put it in there again we're talking about people who never saw a demon cast out these are Gentiles and they never saw this so no no Jen everybody saw demons being cast out when days of the fossils everybody but not listen not not not in Corinth not in Corinth no they did they did it's just not in the book it's not written well then how do you know they did because it was there's demons in all over the world satan's the god of this world you think there were no demons in the people and so again since you guys talk about it so much how come the pops was the folks who gave us the book why didn't they talk about it so here's the thing you guys see more demons and they saw you guys cast out more than they cast out no no because it's prevalent they never talked about it why not that's my that's my only issue they did it's just not in the books you're reading right there well which books are which books is it like this if Paul cast a demon out of a slave girl in the book of acts right okay at the bottom of the church no it was it was well beyond that they were already spreading the gospel around to who to who everybody to the whole world he Jesus said preach the gospel to the whole world okay your hyper your hyper denomination interpretation of the situation is just so you could explain away the deliverance and your followers are saying that I'm relying on speculation but I've answered all your questions clearly and and very simply where anybody could understand so the people in the comments can pretend like I'm insane all they want but I've answered all your questions no you haven't no you haven't what what what question didn't I answer I asked you I said give me an example in the New Testament after the founding of acts I'm saying the founding of acts the founding of the church in acts which is a descriptive book not a prescriptive prescriptive after the Gentiles the Samaritans after John's disciples after people received the Holy Spirit why don't we see it when do we see it are you ever say are you are are you saying the slave girl deliverance was not after that that's where is it at let's go to it it's in acts chapter 16 1615 right I don't know the exact number all right let's go to it all right because what in acts 16 what happens after that let's pull up on the screen ah come on Corey I'm messing with this thing I notice you didn't answer my question I asked you I asked you did Paul casting the demon out of the slave girl happen after the point you're talking about let's go let's see I'm going to show you I'm asking you show you because I'm going to say I'm going to say it happened before let's go to it act 1615 this is where we cast it out of Lydia right no he didn't cast it they didn't give a name to the slave girl I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry you're right that is I'm in the wrong one but Lydia also let's see is it 16 you want me to get it hold on yeah go ahead let me let me I don't have it I thought I had it it's 1616 okay cool we're in the right territory then pull it back on screen so you guys can see it so in 1616 1611 even with Lydia but even in 1616 Lydia Lydia is not the slave girl nor was anyone named no I know I know I'm just I'm using it as kind of my line of demarcations to figure out where I am okay and so this slave girl receives it in act 16 when did the Jews realize or was it confirmed that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit acts 19 right the slave the slave girl was a Gentile okay so now what do we do so the Gentiles again the founding of the church so after the Holy Spirit been put on all the people groups at the founding of the church there is no more need for anyone to talk about demon possession as a matter of fact we don't ever hear them talking about a person who has received the Holy Spirit because the point is once you receive the Holy Spirit which is by through your faith in Christ once that happens nobody nobody nobody has ever a need for any sort of demon being cast out of them that's my point if a person can point to an example I had demons cast out of me well so am I am I complete moron or what no I think I've seen thousands of people delivered of demons one of two things guess what their sin went away with the demons one of two things if you had a demon cast out of you there's only one or two possibilities either you're not a believer or you did not have a demon cast out of you deliverance deliverance is only for the children of God according to Jesus Christ he said he said why should I throw the children's bread to the dogs and he was referring to deliverance of a demon Jesus Christ says that casting out of demons is for the children of God Corey says it's for the children of the devil we have a real discrepancy we do I'm saying I'm saying because you keep you keep pointing to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts where people either didn't matter of fact every example that you used was a person who was not a believer this is a blanket statement by Jesus Christ why should I throw the children's bread to the dogs a.k.a. the gentiles wait a second what is Jesus talking to when he's talking to this married woman what is he talking to what do you mean what is he talking to, what is he talking about he's talking about salvation Jesus is nobody talking he's not I asked him to deliver her daughter the woman didn't go up to him and say Lord give me salvation the woman went up to him and said Lord deliver my daughter and so what was Jesus's point in coming the point that Jesus was saying is this blessing of me casting out demons is for God's elect the children of God okay again let me say it again you will not nor will anybody in this planet unless they write another bible will you find any demons being cast out of a person who is a believer never happens they're all believers the slave girl was a believer she said these men are showing us the way to the true God Ananias and Sapphira were believers they actually sold their possessions and the bible says why did satan fill your heart to lie to the holy ghost satan went inside of Ananias and Sapphira okay couple things first of all we don't know what Ananias and Sapphira was yeah we do we had the holy ghost who said that the bible where does it say that they were Christians go to acts 431 alright just put on the screen alright my dog is out there acting up with those of you in the comments her having a spirit of defination does not negate the fact that she was sent by God and she said they are showing us the way to salvation including herself in the category of those who will be saved so have a nice day you guys in the comments are a joke hold on Chris let's just focus on you and I okay now let's go ahead and you said 31 and when they had prayed the place in which they were gathered was shaken and they were all filled with the holy ghost and continued to speak the word of God with boldness okay Ananias and Sapphira is in that group because if you go down to 34 it describes the ones that sold their home as to being those people in 31 so are you telling me that at that day 31 include every single believer no the ones that sold their at that place where the people gathered who sold their homes again it's a specific group of people which Ananias and Sapphira belong to okay it says let me put on the screen but a man named Ananias with his wife Sapphira sold a piece of their property and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself now I want to find through here anywhere where it says that a person that any of them were believers that they were Christian now is it possible we already read that you could ignore it if you want I'm not ignoring it but I don't know that that refers to Ananias as far as a matter of fact I don't believe it does I don't believe it does well let's read it again let's see what all the believers all the believers did one thing that's describing here it says all the believers sold their homes and Ananias and Sapphira were included in the people in verse 34 it says neither was there any among them that lack for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them and brought the prices of the things that were sold Ananias and Sapphira included it says they were all of one spirit and one mind and it says they were all all the believers had one heart and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own this is what we know who all the believers did and with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus and great grace was upon them all there was not a needy person for as many as were owners of land or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and later the apostles' feet and it was distributed to each as any the Joseph who had, who was called by the apostles Barnabas which means Son of Encouragement a Levite, a native of Sapphira sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and laid it to their feet but so here's the word of contrast so we were already told what all the believers did what did all the believers do according to this passage all the believers were of one heart and all they had they sold and gave everything that's what all the believers did then we have a contrast with someone who is not in that group but a man named Ananias and so I'm contending I am contending that Ananias and Sapphira were not in that group because they said all the believers did this but they didn't they clearly didn't do what they did they did they did sell their home did they sell their home yes or no they sold their land they did okay that's what it says it says they were all of one spirit and one mind it says they all received the Holy Ghost everybody from 31 to 30 to 37 all of them did I agree all of them did I don't believe Ananias and Sapphira is part of that group they are because we're told what they all did they all Ananias and Sapphira to contrast them with the other people to contrast them with the other people he said they all came and brought their all of it brought their land I mean brought their money and laid at the feet of the apostles Ananias and Sapphira Ananias and Sapphira yes they were they did that too the only difference is they lied and kept some of it well then why would he say that all of the what he said we got a problem with the scriptures then all of the believers if all the believers did that but Ananias and Sapphira didn't then you couldn't say all of the believers he contrast they did sell their home okay he's contrasting but Chris he's contrasting we got a lag we got a lag okay I'm sorry he's contrasting what happens in verse 31 through 37 because he says all of these people did this same thing who didn't Ananias and Sapphira well if they had done this tell me tell me what it says the believers did that Ananias and Sapphira didn't do okay let's go back to it let's put on the screen and laid it at the feet of the apostles and it was distributed so all all of the believers and the word that's used there is all okay all of them did this and laid it at the feet of the apostles Ananias and Sapphira did do that well okay how could they have done that how could Ananias and Sapphira hold anything back after he just said all of these believers did they can't be included in the all no they are because they laid their money at the feet of the apostles but they lied about the amount and they kept a percentage back but it said it laid okay they laid all that they had all the proceeds let me ask you a question let's just say let's assume no no it says they sold all they had and they laid the proceeds it doesn't say all the you're twisting it let me ask you a question let's pretend like I'm right for a second and I want you to help me out if Ananias Ananias and Sapphira did not sell all they had if Ananias and Sapphira were not part of this first group how would the scriptures say that how would it it wouldn't have included them as one of the people that sold their homes wouldn't would not if Ananias and Sapphira if they were not part of the original group if they did something different than the original group wouldn't the introduction of what they did start with a but a contrast to contrast what they did versus the other group no all it's saying is but they did this they did something deceptive when they did this when you say but don't you use that as a contrast it can be used in many ways it could be used name when but is never name when but is used as anything but a contrast no but but isn't always a contrast you can say no you could be adding something on that something someone else did you could say okay okay I don't want I don't want to go believe that point because we'll end up in a it's like saying this I went to the store but I went to the supermarket after okay I went to the store but I also went to the supermarket okay that's not a contrast the very definition of the word but is a contrast in English Greek Spanish that's how you have to read it to keep your delusion on it you know you call delusion if you want to but let me let me say this let me ask you this now I just lost my train of thought I'm sorry go ahead with you what you were saying I know you had more to say I just want to make sure that I I just want to make sure I answered all every single question that you had that you had you keep saying I haven't which one didn't I answer I said give me an example of a person who's a believer where demon was cast out of them the slave girl was a believer I gave you one you don't want it didn't the slave girl say these men came from the true God and they're showing us the way did she believe or not that makes her Christian yes it does no it doesn't so you mean tell me everybody on the planet that says that they believe what Jesus did they're a believer people that walk around people that walk around saying that these men the apostles even the demons believe are they believers also they believe but they don't do demons say that Jesus is these apostles are showing me the way to salvation do demons say that wait a second hold on hold on now this is the breakdown you mean to tell me if a person says that they know what Jesus did because remember remember let me give you no she said Cory you're not listening no you're let me give you a clear cut example of a group of people who believe in what Jesus has done where he's from and they're not called believers now you're arguing a different point no no no you're saying the girl was a believer I said give an example you're saying Lydia was a believer I gave you the example that she said that they are showing her the way to salvation I know even the demons believe in tremble demons that believe in tremble don't walk around saying these apostles are showing me the way to salvation okay what about the Pharisees because we all know that you come from God because no one can do what you do and guess what so you can believe you can have a head knowledge but not here it can be there but not here and so there might come a time where someone you know I think I think what Jesus did is real but I'll wait till later I got time right I'm having too much I'm young I don't want to get tied down with any religion with Christianity right so her knowing that she was not a believer she had there is no example of anyone having the Holy Spirit in them ever ever having a demon in them and having to be cast out but we saw in Galatians what has to happen we see in James we see in John we see all throughout the rest of the New Testament after the Holy Spirit has come into all these different people what they have to do to be delivered well we already have we already have discussed that the Holy Spirit being in someone has no bearing on what is living in their flesh because the Holy Spirit does not live in the flesh nothing good lives in the flesh you keep talking about the Holy Ghost being in people as if it negates my doctrine it does it's not a good angle so Galatians 5 doesn't so when he says and those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with his passion and the beginning of says but I say walk in the spirit and you will not gratify the flesh and now you're telling me that the spirit has nothing to do with the flesh do I have to walk in the spirit today Corey is it the spirit though best control in the flesh according to Galatians 5 it's the spirit no it's telling you no it's telling you to put your will behind the guidance of the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh it's not saying the Holy Spirit controls the flesh it's saying you you the person you put your will behind your spirit and you will not engage in the lust of the flesh by the way this is saying that the lust of the flesh are there right because every day we need to walk in the spirit so we don't fulfill the lust of the flesh this verse proves that they're there the lust of the flesh it proves that every believer has them but what it's telling us is don't engage it don't put your will behind it to walk in the spirit so it's the spirit that gives us control because what you keep saying is that these demonic... the way you said that I agree what you keep saying is that these demonic spirits hold on hold on I agree it's the spirit that gives us control but I don't agree that the spirit controls the flesh because the Bible says they're contrary one to another they cannot agree and it will never happen if I'm understanding this correctly demonic spirits can control the flesh but the Holy Spirit cannot right if you don't walk in the spirit if you don't walk in the spirit you will fulfill the lust of the flesh and when you fulfill them God will take his hand off of you turn you over to the devil and turn you over to the sins of the flesh well here's what God said about what his spirit is going to do but it's also in Ezekiel that when he gives us a new heart and when he puts his spirit in us then he will cause us to walk and never depart from his teachings and from his commandments okay so if the spirit is in us he will cause us the spirit will cause us to walk well we're talking about the same thing in Galatians his spirit is in us and it will cause us not to gratify the flesh not to fulfill it not to complete it because his spirit is in us because what does John say greater is he greater is he the spirit than us that's in the world that is the any demonic spirit the world sin greater is he that's enough it would not make sense Chris if we say greater is the Holy Spirit in us but the flesh is still going to be controlled by demons what was the purpose what in the world would we need this Holy Spirit in us if we cannot defeat the flesh I'll answer that question the Holy Spirit guides you and teaches you all things and the Holy Spirit empowers you to follow God at no point am I saying that demons are stronger than God yeah you are no I'm not and I'm going to explain why because the demon if the person puts their will behind serving a demon God turns them over to that for the destruction of their flesh it doesn't mean that the demons are stronger than God it means the person chose evil and God turned them over to their evil in no way does that mean that the evil is stronger than God but aren't we told that he in our flesh he in our spirit is going to control our flesh win win no where does it say that where does it say that 36 where does it say the Holy Spirit is going to control the flesh not not that the Holy Spirit will empower us to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh we all know that where does it say the Holy Spirit will take command over the flesh and dictate the way the flesh operates where are you getting that from hold on one second let me go and pull it up oops uh oh my typing is bad okay let me pull this up these people are saying I say God's weak that's all you people could do is make up false accusations and lie about me because you got nothing but I wouldn't I wouldn't worry about them though Chris when did I say God is weak and demons are stronger than God I mean these people are a joke to me it's ridiculous let's see they're like you've been busted Chris let's pull this up so here it is in Ezekiel God is saying what he's going to do he says in verse 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean including demons and from all your idols I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new spirit I will put in you so he's talking about the Holy Spirit and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you and and what cause you to walk in my status or my commands and be careful to obey my rules so you know what's going to happen when this spirit goes in you you are going to walk according to his commands which is also walking in step with what he's talking about in Galatians you are not going to depart those things you're never going to now there's a whole other thing but I don't believe in a person losing their salvation because the spirit is in them I believe that what God is going to do this spirit is going to control us which is why he says greater is he that is in me the spirit then anything on the outside that wants to get the spirit out any sort of demonic oppression anything if he's in me I'm free indeed who the sun sets free is free indeed where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty meaning and he has to mean against any demonic oppression because he said he's come to set free bro you're reading me a verse that's saying that God will give us power to not walk after the flesh and after the spirit I don't deny that but you're saying no you're you just keep trying to make that my position because you need to not do that to knock my position down I okay the flesh the flesh and the spirit are contrary one to another the Holy Spirit does not seek to control the flesh according to this passage because the flesh prophets nothing no that passage does not say that the Holy Spirit will impact give you a that passage says that the Holy Spirit will give you power over the flesh not that it will control the flesh he says will cause you that's will cause you to walk I know it will cause us to walk against our flesh it will not take over our flesh it has no interest in our flesh because Jesus said the flesh prophets nothing Paul said in my flesh dwells no good thing God and when we go to heaven we put off our corruptible flesh God has no interest in controlling our corruptible flesh why did they because it's of the world it's of the devil that's why when the world that's why when the world perishes our physical flesh it perishes with it well why what my question to you is why is he not taking the flesh if he controls the flesh why not take it to heaven because because the flesh you're right the flesh does have a contrary nature but what he's given is the spirit to subdue it and so and it will now 100% of time no and even at times where the spirit where we may we may have a fault or we may fall even at those times the remedy is never told us go and cast them out so but listen let me let me let me just say this because guys it's been an hour and 47 minutes Chris a lot of folks said hey don't have this guy on here this and that or whatever and I think I think even though we're not we're not agreeing I still think it's been productive I think it's been fruitful I'm not angry I don't hate you I'm not angry with you I feel like maybe that's the same way coming this way and so I've enjoyed this I don't know about you I think the people and I trust my moderators that they've been kind of keeping a good hold on things what have you but I think this has been been very productive again we said it's not likely that we're going to convince each other but at least we can put out what we believe and you know let other folks look at it and and judge it how they say it and so I think in that regard I think we've been pretty successful do you I'm happy I came and I got to explain to you exactly how most good deliverance ministers articulate their belief on where these demons are living and where they don't live I hope that I clarified to you that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not shutting down the possibility of a demon dwelling in a person because a good deliverance minister is going to articulate that the demon isn't possessing your spirit but they're living in the physical body aka the flesh and this is why the flesh lusts against the spirit and this is what people need to understand deliverance ministers are not saying the devil is stronger than God that's a straw man and that's a lie deliverance ministers are not saying the Christian does not have power over sin or demons deliverance ministers are saying that the when we deliver demons out of people that is the Christian sanctification and it's not the only way a Christian is sanctified all the other things Corey said are valid too believing in the gospel believing in Jesus resisting demons fighting sin confessing your sins all these are also valid ways to get free from evil but we should not negate or speak against the casting out of demons because we are borderline blaspheming the Holy Ghost when we do that and we should be careful and I'd like to ask you just a few questions do you because you've had the chance to kind of like ask me questions or whatever do you believe that there's anybody alive today that's casting out demons? No not the way you guys do I think the people that are casting out demons are doing so with the Word of God I think the Word of God is more than sufficient and when that happens when people have faith in Christ him coming in that's the demons being cast and I think the demons are only and always cast out by the power of Christ and that only happens once they become a believer once Christ comes in any demonic forces have to flee do I think that now do I think that demons or demonic forces still want to kind of mess with believers they don't just give up just because a person becomes a believer they want to Christ that I've come to give them life abundantly and they want to try to support the abundant part of it but they can't make God out to be false not understanding what he's talking about not understanding the power of demons and I don't think that about Christ I think that what he said is true and I think that we are truly free and so that's how I would answer that question So do you believe that you're free in the flesh or free in the spirit or both? I'm definitely free in the spirit do I have any struggles in the flesh? Sure we all do but then how do you reconcile that with what you're saying because they don't have as Paul said they don't have dominion over me I discipline my body I walk in the spirit and I've always said this guys and this will be the first time you've heard me say this Chris first time you hear me say this is that all of our issues be it a person who is a believer and having some issues a non-believer, an atheist a Mormon, a Jehovah's Witness every one of us has the same issue it's just the degree of and here's that issue guys you've heard me say it time and time again our issue with our walk or lack of a walk is proximity but closer you get to God let me say it again so I want you to hear where I'm coming from guys the closer you get to God the further everything else that can hinder you is that way if God is on this side if he's over here and sin in the world is over there if I get to him I ain't got to figure out how it's done because he's the one that's going to cleanse me he's the one that protects me get closer to him now if I want to sit there and try to mess with the sin if I want a 12 step program on how to get past alcohol or 12 step program on how to get over sexual addiction in those things fight the devil if you want to that's not what he says if I resist him and go to him then guess what he can't do guess what he can't do let me give you all a quick little story it's going to be 46 seconds give or take 46 seconds there's a little boy guys true story, little boy who was getting bullied by some bigger kid going to school and this bigger kid kept taking his money his lunch money his mama and daddy is giving him some money he goes to school and somebody is taking it away from him and he gets advice from everybody else the other little kid said what you ought to do is tell the teacher the teacher gets on him the boy goes to school after school what does the bully do beat up the kid and tells him to bring twice the amount of money the next day one of his friends said what you ought to do then is you ought to go a different route so he doesn't know it the bully finds that route beats the kid up and takes his money one kid said what you ought to do is get a stick get you a stick and hit the bully upside the head that way the bully will know who's boss the kid says you know what good idea what else can I lose the kid takes a stick tries to beat the bully up with it with the stick and still takes his money one kid just says you know what why don't you just stand up to him why don't you just stand up to him well as he's saying that he's at home and he's talking to his buddy on the phone his father hears him so he talks to his father what should I do his father says just stand up to the bully just stand up just do everything I've taught you so the next day the boy goes out and you know what happens the bully sees him the kid the kid says you know what you can't have what I got you can't have what my father gave me ain't gonna happen the bully says what the bully bows up he looks and takes off running because what he did what the kid didn't see but what the bully saw was his father I'm saying this if you stand with your father if you have a father in heaven I don't care what what demonic bully you have that demonic bully has to flee in the name of Jesus in the presence of God there will be no defeat there will be no victory by the devil if you've got God in your life if you are a believer that's it I don't think I don't think it's any it's that difficult I think the more you hold on to him the more you run to him the more you lean on him the less you'll have any sort of problems with the flesh or any demonic influence which is what Paul is trying to say and so that's kind of that's my whole that's my whole spill yeah but bro get seeking him for deliverance and going to his ministers for freedom is leaning on him no you're leaning on somebody else but hold on they leaned on each other the bible says pray for one another you're supposed to lean on each other Christianity is not just something but here's what we're going to do though were you alone in your house but Chris hold on we're going to end up going back into it you and I are not going to convince each other we're just not going to convince each other and so let's just have a good conversation because I don't know about you but you know I'm getting up there and I can only go so long without eating and so at some point in time there's water that I've drunk all up and there's coffee back there it hadn't yet but it's going to want to kick in hey bro I could go 10 hours without eating or drinking over here I can't one of us needs deliverance bro listen I need deliverance from sustenance I need deliverance from carbs and protein you're right but listen bro it's been good it's been fun I'd like for us to leave on good terms so let me just do this for even for the sake remember guys I said we want to be godly even if in your retort towards me or towards Chris or towards each other so Father God we thank you for this time Lord you are amazing you are awesome Father what we both pray what we all ought to pray is that we all have a relationship with you that we know you that when we go before you that he can say I did know you rather than I never knew you and so that he can say well done good and faithful servants so Lord we pray that rather than even worrying about deliverance more than anything else we need to know if we've got you and then I think that after that as we become obedient and submissive to your word to your will and to your way that I believe that true deliverance comes that way but if there's something else Lord God that spirit would guide us Lord so I thank you for this night God I pray that you keep Chris myself our families everyone in the chat Lord God and the viewers that will watch this later that you would keep us Lord God and bring us all closer to you Lord it's in your wonderful Sunday I do pray this Lord Father amen amen thank you hey brother listen so I thank you this was good this was good some folks will say hey don't do it but hey we did it and we left on and it's cool if you think that what I'm teaching is heresy or I think it's cool but we still know how to conduct ourselves like men so brother I want to thank you I pray that the rest of your night is blessed and who knows maybe we'll do this again all right thank you guys I think this was awesome I will say this there were some people early in the chats who said oh no Cory you don't want to do this it's gonna be a train wreck even some people said Cory you're not you're not prepared for this that's what this guy does okay okay but the point is I think I handled myself correctly I think I imported myself correctly I think I handled the scriptures I didn't even get to go over all the scriptures that I want matter of fact let me just do this let me just cover some of the things that I really we didn't get a chance to go through because I wanted to have a a decent conversation but there are some things that I think are important to know again this is where I'm coming from and so let me throw a couple passages up and then we'll get ourselves out of here enrollment 619 says I am speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations for just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness so now present your members as slaves to righteous leading the sanctuaries that are flesh for when you were slaves of sin you were free in regard to righteousness but what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed for the end of those things is death but now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end eternal life right and that's where we see the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is life in Christ Jesus and so I think that that makes the point do I need to I may want to say some of these scriptures for later for the next time one of those guys and there are some other guys that do want to come on who want to want to talk about this deliverance ministry I think though guys I think it's clear that being a Christian means you have been delivered that's just me I don't see any way around it again I think that God in his sovereign way has determined that he is going to start with the Jews first and then the Jews saw that the Samaritans also received the Holy Spirit and then the Jews and the Samaritans alike also saw that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit and then once that happened because all of us now have the spirit every people group has the Holy Spirit that there is no longer need for any casting out of demons because now that's the work of the spirit and so once he's in you you've been set free that's just me guys anyway I hope this was edifying guys I hope you guys enjoyed it maybe we'll get someone else to come on as well I'm not sure where I am working on some other people coming on as a matter of fact I am working also on someone I told you about this guy who I really really really respect in terms of his mind in terms of how he handles the scriptures brother's bad and he's working out to where he can come on I've got another special guest this guy he didn't like me this guy and so even trying to get our schedules together he's just I don't want to be mean I don't want to talk about somebody and I won't say too much but he's just not a nice guy and he'll tell you he doesn't like me he tell me I'm the devil I'm going to hell and God is he's just not a good guy right but I still want to have him come on and we can talk I wish it was Marcus Roger listen I wish it was I wish it was that's all I can say and you know who knows maybe one day it will be maybe one day it will be but then also let me say this it looks like guys as far as the Bible study class it looks like the class will be Saturday because I got a text from the roofers saying that it is if he about them coming on see rocks move it definitely will not be see rocks move but on the Bible study he's probably not going to come out Saturday because it looks like some bad weather is coming this way it's going to be rainy and they can't do it in the rain so we may be saved because of the rain so I would love to have you come out my brother I'm going to tell you this though I've got some passages for you if you want to discuss one save always save that nobody nobody has been able to answer this question and so have no problem with you coming on matter of fact you tell me when you want to when you want to come up come on and we can have this conversation because again there might be some folks who have heard my points but I believe that it is crystal clear that what Jesus did was finished and stated that we cannot lose our salvation so anyway I would say I've been around the block a bit okay listen I've got this I've got this challenge out how do we say back in the day you better ask somebody I'm just I'm playing but I've got this challenge out on the passage that I know for fact proves you cannot lose your salvation and no one has been able to refute this passage and so now I'll answer everyone else's questions I'll answer your issues on one save always save where you where you say this says this says that that's fine but no one's going to answer mine they never did they just never do so anyway I will say this if you want to come on let me know send me an email we can go ahead and schedule it and I would say you might want to brush up a little bit on your Greek because we're going to be in the Greek and we're going to be in Hebrew and we're going to be in English okay so but send me an email smart christian channel at gmail.com and then we'll see if we can get this figured out anyway guys I want to thank you guys I can't tell how you all behaved how you guys behaved in the chat I don't know I'll go back and probably I'll go back and look in the chat I'm pretty sure the chats were kind of lively so anyway guys love you all and I will see you on tomorrow