All right. Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Porter, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly webinar series where we cover a variety of topics that would be of interest to libraries. The show is broadcast live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. central time. But if you're unable to join us on Wednesdays, that's okay. We do record the show every week and it is then posted to our website in our archives and I'll show you at the end of today's show where you can access those archives. Both our live show and our recordings are free and open to anyone to watch. So please share everything about our show to your friends, family, neighbors, colleagues, anyone who you think might be interested in any of the topics that we have on Encompass Live. Either our upcoming shows if they wanna watch live or any of our archives. This is the 10th year, 2018 is the 10th year of Encompass Live. Wow. And so we have a lot in our archives. We have everything going back all the way to the beginning. So you'll find lots of information in there, lots of historical information, but anything you can find in there that might be of interest to you. The Nebraska Library Commission is the state agency for all libraries in Nebraska. So we do cover things that are for public, academic, K-12 schools, museums, correctional facilities all across the board, any types of anything that's a library. So you'll find information about that. So our presentations cover things that will be of interest for all types of libraries. And we do a mixture of things here on the show, book reviews, interviews, mini training sessions, demos of services products, things that we think that anything that would be of interest to libraries. We sometimes have Nebraska Library Commission staff come on and do presentations for us for things that are obviously Nebraska centric and things we are offering here within the state. But we also bring in guest speakers. And today that's what we have. On the line with us is Kendra Morgan. Good morning, Kendra. Good morning. And she is a senior program manager at Web Junction. And she has been working with Web Junction for a long time from the beginning. And 11 years. Yeah, 11, 11 and a half. Yeah. And she's been on the show before. It's been a few years since she's been on to talk about it, Web Junction. So we knew we were ready for an update about what's available through there. And so she's going to talk about Web Junction and all the great resources they have for libraries. So I'll just hand it over to you, Kendra, to go ahead and take it away. Sounds great. Thank you, Kristen. Thanks for having me back. This is actually Web Junction's 15th year. So I've been with the organization for about 11 and a half years. And my colleague, Jennifer Peterson, is also one of the participants today. And she's been here even longer than me. And so we have a nice group of folks working here who really, really appreciate what we get to do for libraries and the work that we do. So we're grateful for more opportunities to share this with the field. So thank you. And thanks to everyone who has joined us today and taking some time out of your day to dedicate to some learning. I'm glad you're here. And I'm looking forward to introducing you to Web Junction if you're new. And if you're familiar with our services, some of the things that may have changed since the last time you visited Web Junction. So my role with Web Junction, which is part of OCLC, so we are a team that's part of OCLC research and which has been great for us. We have a wonderful set of colleagues who are always looking at what's happening in the field and we bring that public angle to the OCLC research team. And my job specifically is to manage the content that's on webjunction.org and the resources that we make available. My colleague, Jennifer, who I mentioned is here runs our webinar program and I'll be talking more about that and how that works. And a large part of what we do is just connecting with the library community and making sure that the stories and programs and community ideas that are out there are getting shared more broadly. So we're always looking for opportunities to do that. And I encourage you, if you have stories as we're going through today's session and you're like, oh, I could share that, to reach out to me and let me know and we'd be happy to share your story as well. So today we're gonna talk about a few key aspects about Web Junction, including an overall background about what we do. We'll tour both webjunction.org and our course catalog, which is at learn.webjunction.org and we'll have a complete list of all of these links that you'll be able to access at the end of the show. And I'll also be sharing my slides so that you'll have those as well. So if you miss anything, you'll be able to catch up. And of course there's the recording that's available. Right, and I should mention, I'll mention that right now too. Yeah, afterwards when I mentioned earlier we do a recording of the show, but we will also have a link to these slides so you'll be able to access them yourself. So if there is anything on here like URLs or whatever, don't bother, you need to try and scribble them down now. You'll have access to all of this afterwards in the archive. Great. So we'll also talk a little bit about Web Junction projects, which is a huge part of what we do here. Most of these are grant funded projects and then we'll save some time for questions at the end. So one of the ways that we like to think about Web Junction is that it's the learning place for libraries. And what we're gonna be focusing on today is how we do this and how we run our site and how we share our resources. But we really see it as a place where library staff and volunteers can come together and learn about current issues and best practices. A lot of what we do is really trying to inspire other library staff to try something new or different with their community and highlighting approaches that others have taken. I used to work at the State Library in Virginia and they used to call it R&D. We're gonna do a little R&D around this topic and that was to rip off and duplicate, to find stuff that other people are doing well and then help it grow. So how can you adapt something for your library? And remembering that you don't have to do everything, you can take parts of one program and make it your own. So finding that inspiration and we do that by trying to capture that. And I know that today we have folks participating from all over the country and the content that we primarily focus on is for a public library audience. But there are lots of other things there that on the site that can be valuable to learners from all different aspects of the library profession. So we recently hosted a program on Wikipedia and libraries and while that was focused on the public library experience, we did have participants from academic libraries, school libraries who really saw the connection and were able to benefit from the materials. And so everything that we make available on Web Junction can be used and adapted by anyone. So even if it was written for one audience, part of the opportunity there is for you to look at and see how you could adopt it for yours. So for Web Junction, these are some of the key elements that really help us to clarify how we like to use Web Junction to support the library field. And our team really talks a lot about what it means to be a learning organization and how we can develop this in libraries so that together we are building the knowledge, skills and confidence of library staff. We pursue grant funding that allows us to design, test and spread promising practices and approaches. And then we also help libraries make measurable differences in their communities. So we do this with the support of state libraries. We do this with the support of OCLC and we do this with the support of external grant funders. And the best part is that we truly enjoy all of this work. Getting to collaborate with library practitioners and subject matter experts in the field is a big part of what we do. And we are all learning every day and that is truly one of the best parts of my job. So here's another really important part about Web Junction and I hope you walk away remembering this today is that the resources that you find on Web Junction are free and open to all. We do this again, state libraries, OCLC grant funding. The state libraries that support us, we have 24 and I'll show you a map of those states that are supporting Web Junction. We couldn't do this without them. They provide support to keep Web Junction available and then they receive reporting on usage and how Web Junction is used within their state to help support their local CE efforts. Our funders include the Institute of Museum and Library Services, which also provides LSTA funds library services and technology act funds to state libraries. So many of you may be familiar with that. The Knight Foundation recently funded our Wikipedia project as well as the Wikimedia Foundation. And so all of these organizations are playing a role in helping to support quality continuing education to all library staff and volunteers. But do share this and share it with your state library. If you see that your state isn't one of our supporters we're always open to discussing the role of state libraries in supporting Web Junction. So these are our 24 supporting states. I love seeing this map fill in every year. We've continued to grow support for Web Junction. My home state in Hawaii couldn't get it on the map but got a nice little palm tree representation. I love that, yes. I was gonna say, there's a little palm tree out there. So it's been fantastic the support that Web Junction receives and the input that we get from state libraries to help guide our services is really critical. And we hope that your state is represented on this map but again, Web Junction services are continuing to be available for free for everyone. So reach out if you need more questions on what that means, but hopefully it'll be clear by the end of today's session. Yeah, as you can see, Nebraska is on there. We did just renew our support for Web Junction and we do really appreciate it and are happy to do that and definitely want our libraries here to be taking advantage of all of everything that's available there. Yeah, and we really appreciate it, Krista. You guys have been long-term supporters and it means a lot. So our next step is to look a little bit into the resources on Web Junction and what's available. And so this is some of the highlights of what you can find on Web Junction. So I'm gonna dig into most of them as we go through today's session. And of course you have the opportunity to add any questions to the chat. If you see something that you want me to dive into don't hesitate to put a question in. We'll also have time at the end for additional questions. So we do have weekly articles, a newsletter, an online course catalog. We have people participating in our webinars who are subject matter experts contributing articles who have lived through an experience firsthand or implementing a new programming opportunity at their library. But being able to promote firsthand accounts of library experiences is really a major component of Web Junction. So again, if you have something to share I encourage you to reach out after today's session. So we're gonna focus on doing, I've taken screenshots of most Web Junction that makes it a little bit easier to walk through instead of switching back and forth. But I mentioned earlier that we really think of ourselves as the learning place for libraries and you're going to find links here up at the top of the screen to the course catalog or webinar calendar and topic areas the way that our articles are organized or projects and then more about us. There really isn't another program out there that has the same combination, the volume that we have, the quality, the opportunity to access the stuff 24 seven, the affordability and the topical relevance. So we are really proud of what we're able to do and the contributions that we're able to bring to the field. And we hope that you're able to find things on Web Junction that helped support you in your role as well. So this is just a quick overview of some of the articles that we've published in the last year. So we try to put up a new article pretty much every week sometimes too. And again, these are both articles that we have written staff here at OCLC as well as practitioners in the field. So every now and then we get someone reaching out saying, I just did this great project. Is this something you'd like to share? And it usually is. And we'll often interview that person or they'll submit an article on their own. And we often do some of these articles connected to grant programs that we're working on or topics that have just kind of brought, captured the attention of the staff here. So, and the thing that strikes me every time we look into these stories is how much there is to learn. I spent some time last fall looking at the lawyers and libraries programs and how libraries in towns of all sizes are really trying to help patrons get information around legal services. When there really might be a limited amount of resources in their town, the library might be providing the only internet access. They might be able to provide meeting space for people. And it's just really interesting to me to get to explore some of that and then share that back with the community. So this is again, just a handful of the topics that we've covered in the past year. And everything is on the table for consideration. If it's happening in libraries, it's something that we're interested in sharing. So again, if it's something, if you've got a program going on, you can let us know. So you'll notice that this is again, another screenshot. The topic areas tab, we've arranged everything. We tag our content so that it falls into one of these categories. And you can also search the site in the upper right-hand corner as well. But if you just wanna browse by topic, this is one way that you can do that. And it really allows you to find things that might resonate with you, but we've got buckets of library service, management, staff training and development and technology. And again, we're looking at adding something roughly every month. And sometimes we find stuff gets a little bit outdated because it's been a while since we visited that topic. So we're always looking for opportunities to add new things. And sometimes we just have to do some cleanup as well. There's so much there that we just need to do a little gardening on our digital platform, but we're always looking to add new things. So I wanted to show you a more specific example of one of the topic areas. And this is the competencies section. And I wanted to highlight one of the resources that we've developed at Web Junction with funding from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. And this is the second edition of the competency index for the library field that was published. One of our staff, Beth Agucci was the editor for this resource. And creating things like this is one of the core services of Web Junction, right? Creating resources that can help benefit the field. And what we've done with the competency index is to compile the types of knowledge, skills, abilities somebody might need for a certain type of job within the library. And that can help managers have discussions with staff around things that they might want to look at improving or to create a job description that helps to put some box around the type of work or skills that somebody might need. And it also serves as a great conversation piece for people to look at how they might want to strengthen and build and look for continuing education opportunities around specific skills. And what we've done with resources like the competency index is to make sure that you have access to them both as a nice PDF that can be printed out and used as a resource. But we also provide you with the Word document, so the original file, because one of the things that we really like to emphasize is that libraries can and should take these materials and adapt them locally. We know how different every library is and how different the needs are. And so we want to, as much as possible, facilitate you in adapting things to meet your local needs. So if you look at a list of competencies and you want to work with a staff member or yourself on it, you have a Word document so that you can customize without having to have a PDF that you can't edit. So one of the things that we're really just interested in there is making sure that libraries have access to the resources that they need and that they can customize. So we're always looking for ways to make sure that that happens and we're always open to feedback on how we can better do that. The next section is our projects and we have actually the Wikipedia and Libraries Project just wrapped up at the end of May. So it's now, it's technically a past project, but we're continuing to post some resources from that work. But we do keep project pages for all of the projects that we have going on because we publish everything that we create for our grant programs under a Creative Commons license. So our hope is absolutely that people will take these materials, adapt them, use them and support your communities and support your staff. So we try to remove as many barriers as possible. This isn't behind a paywall, you can access this at any time. So we would encourage you to explore these resources and to look at what might support your library and how we can do that. We're always open to suggestions on how to better do that as well. So you're always encouraged to reach out and let us know how we can better support you. Kendra, we do have a question. I think it's from when you were talking about all of the resources that you have that some things are older. So you update them, put updated articles out there.  How do you deal with that in a web environment? Yeah, we do a little bit of both. We went through a really big, purging process last year where we probably took down about 400 articles total because I mentioned this is our 15th year. So sometimes that content has been with us the whole time and it's just a little dated. But sometimes we've missed things too. We have over 2,000 articles on this probably close to 2,300 now. So we missed things. Oh, of course. Only human, yeah, just like in a library too. Exactly, our weeding, I think weeding is always a little tough even for us when we see, because we have statistics on how frequently things are used and when stuff is used really often, we try to update that more quickly. But if people find things dated, it helps to know. Yeah. So these are our three, I mentioned current projects, Wikipedia and libraries just wrapped. And that was a really active project where we are profiling staff who were using Wikipedia, particularly in public libraries, but also academics because they were doing some really interesting things that could definitely transfer over to the public sphere. And then we also had a nine week training program. And what we've done there is to make all of the curriculum that was part of that program now publicly available so anyone else can take it and adapt it and make it their own and reuse it. So again, that's all under that umbrella of creative commons licensing for reuse. The other two projects that we have going on right now are pretty fun. It's one of those things where just the topics alone give us a lot of energy. Supercharged story times is helping libraries implement specific skills into their story times to help with early childhood education. And it's just fun because there's great stories in a great range of folks. So we're working with a handful of states right now to do local programs. And then later this year, the program will be more widely available to anyone in the country to apply. And eventually there will be a self-paced course in the course catalog that will also be available to anybody. So our goal is always to make these things as broadly available as possible, even if we start with a smaller core group, we'll end up making things available to everybody. It's just a, it just helps with management when it's a little bit smaller, but the resources do end up becoming fully available. And then small libraries create smart spaces was an IMLS funded project that they're just wrapping things up now. We worked with 15 small and rural libraries around the country as they look to reimagine the space that they make available to their patrons. So we found some really fantastic projects which are being highlighted on Web Junction. We shared some of those through public webinars and two courses are now available for that in the course catalog. And we'll be heading over there in a little bit to see what's within the course catalog. But what we did was to take the learnings from that program and turn it into self-paced courses so that anybody could benefit from the experience of that project and what we learned. So I wanna spend a little bit of time talking about how we connect with the library community through social media, newsletters, things like that. So our newsletter is called Crossroads and this comes out twice a month and we feature new articles, upcoming webinars, catalog highlights, anything that might be of interest to the field and it gets delivered directly to your inbox. So this is something that you can subscribe to and have access to via email. We have about 20,000 subscribers and the newsletter goes out usually on the first and the third Wednesdays of every month. We are also active on social media. We have accounts with Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. So you can follow us in all of those locations. And this is kind of one of the ways that we help to share out not just information from Web Junction but things that we're seeing in the field that we find interesting or that we think will resonate with our community. And that could include resources from state libraries and resources from organizations like the American Library Association or the Public Library Association and often news articles as well, things that are being shared in the community that impact the library. So anything on legislation at the federal level, for example, or just things that just bring a smile to our face some days. It's just something fun if we see things that we like to share. So we encourage you to follow us on those social media channels. My colleague Jennifer also compiles a series that's really focused on how libraries are using Facebook. And this is called the Social Library. And the idea is every week, every two weeks she finds five libraries that have been promoting programs or resources through their Facebook page. Which again, sometimes it's a serious topic but a lot of times it's fun things that the library is helping to promote and raise awareness about or share that they've done recently. And they're just great examples of what's happening in the community that can give you a little burst of inspiration. And it demonstrates how libraries are using social media and the types of programs and activities they're offering to their community. Jennifer's also compiled a complete list of all of the past features on the social library and you can see all of those in a spreadsheet that's available for the site as well. So the next big bucket of content is our webinar calendar. And we host usually two live webinars every month and that brings in library practitioners to the web junction audience to share their stories. The presenters are not compensated which is really important for us to share because they volunteer their time and expertise which we really appreciate it. We couldn't do this without them and we know how important it is to hear from these practitioners directly. And they represent libraries of all sizes. We have large urban libraries participating, small rural libraries, often they'll bring in partners that they're working with in the community. And so they're really sharing a firsthand experience of the programs that they're offering where they found success, where they found challenges and how other people can benefit from those. So it's a really core part of the web junction service to do these webinars, very similar to Encompass. So we promote these in a couple of ways. One is through our webinar calendar. You can see a complete list of everything that's coming up that's been scheduled already. And again, this will make sure to provide all of these links in the follow-up. This is an example of an event that happened in the past and one of the things that I wanted to point out was down at the bottom, you can access the webinar recording. So that's going to be in our course catalog, which is free. But we also post the slides, all of the chat that happened during the session. So we keep chat open and available to all participants. So you can share your questions with the group. You can share resources, links to things that you developed or others can in response to a question. And we also do closed captioning for all of the live sessions, which then essentially becomes a transcript from the webinar and that's available as well. We also work with the presenters to develop a learning guide and that document is really intended to help you take the learning beyond that webinar session that can be used, you can use it alone or with another group. And we'll talk more about online learning and how to optimize this, just as a little bit of a carry forward for what you can do after this session. That recording of course is available, as Krista mentioned, people can't always make it to the time when the live session is available. So making that recording is always really important to us. And you can see the upcoming webinars on Web Junction. You can also get access to them and learn about them. We post those on Twitter and Facebook as well as through our newsletter crossroads. So we try to promote them usually at least six weeks in advance, sometimes a little bit longer depending on the topic. So, and then don't worry if you can't make it live. Some people like to register even if they know they can't attend so that they get the reminders, but it is not a requirement. So the next big bucket is our Web Junction course catalog. And this is just a link on Web Junction. We'll take you straight to our course catalog. And this is a screenshot of me being logged into my account. Accounts are free. And when you go to learn.webjunction.org, there's a login link in the upper right-hand corner where you can click and create a new account or log in if you already have one. This is where we store and manage all of our learning content. So our webinar recordings are all in the course catalog as well as the self-paced courses. And those self-paced courses, we'll talk a little bit more about them, but they come from different sources as does all of the content in the catalog. But it's a great compilation. There's almost 300 items in the catalog. A lot of webinar recordings, but also around 40, 45 self-paced courses as well. So this is an example of a self-paced course in Web Junction. And this was built off of a webinar that was offered on extreme customer service every time. And the content was so interesting and well-presented and robust that we actually turned it into a self-paced course. Took the webinar and then added some additional testing components, like evaluation components as you went through. But this was, again, this was something that a library practitioner, Gretchen Casarotti came and did this presentation and shared it with the field. And then we amplified it a little bit by making it into a self-paced course. So this is content that was brought to us by a practitioner in the field and wouldn't have been possible without her contribution. These are two other examples of self-paced courses, the e-reader detective, so understanding how to use e-readers and how those work. And then a course on shelving with Dewey. So if you have a new volunteer or a new page and you need to get them oriented to Dewey, if that's what you're using in your library, it's a great starting place. Just have them go through the course and learn a little bit about how they can use Dewey before you put them to work working on the shelves. But it's a great way to allow people to get the basics in an online course, which is freely available whenever they need it. And it also allows for some basic quizzes. So the user has to test, just make sure that they're understanding the content in those self-paced courses. And then at the end, they're presented with a certificate that says they've completed the course. And that certificate and remains available in the course catalog. Every now and then we retire a course, but we let people know that that's going to happen so that you can print out any certificates, but that is part of the offering and web junction. And I should have mentioned that about the webinars as well. If you attend a live webinar, we do send out a certificate of attendance within a week so that people have that. And we do that via email. And in the course catalog, it's just available to the learner as part of their account. So that's nice. So then if you're logged into your account, you can see somewhere all of the certificates for things are currently active that you've done. Yep, you can see all of the things that you've completed and that you can click into that and then get all of your certificates. And whenever you need to grab one of those to submit for CE credit or whatever you need to do. Yep, nice, nice. So a huge part of why web junction is successful is because we have been able to pull together information from a bunch of sources. It's not just us. We really depend on quality content that is created by other organizations, including the Nebraska Library Commission. We're able to use our course catalog as a platform to share out a lot of what other people are doing so that you can go to one place and see all of those resources. They were, you can still clearly tell that it was developed by another organization. And it's usually like with Nebraska Library Commission they're on YouTube. It just shows up in web junction. It doesn't, their original content is still there. But this is, and these aren't financial partnerships, but they're, all of these organizations are interested in continuing education and supporting people in that pursuit. So they've been very generous with letting us share their content through web junction to make sure that it gets to as broad of an audience as possible. So one of the things that I wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about is online learning can be a little bit challenging. It can feel a little bit isolating. And so we have done a few things and encourage people who are taking online training to think about ways to enhance their learning. So there are a few ways that we try to support this through web junction. One is through learner guides, which I mentioned in conjunction with the webinars is in those learner guides, you'll find questions that you might want to think about after the session will give you a link to something the presenter mentioned and say, you might want to look at this and pull in three things from what you read that you want to focus on moving forward. So we're trying to give you a few steps to help amplify your learning after the webinar is over because it usually doesn't stop there, right? Like you've just kind of got a seed germinating and you want to figure out how to take that learning those learner guides can help you take that next step. We also encourage people to watch webinars together and whether or not that's the live session or the recorded session is really up to you. We know that people use the webinars in staff days. They'll either watch the entire thing together or like this 15 minute section of the webinar was really important to an idea that we've been talking about. So they'll share that with everybody and then host a discussion about it afterwards. Some people will say, everybody watch this on your own then we'll come together to discuss it. So there's lots of ways to support that with other people. Outside of a formal learning opportunity, if you've ever done like a lunch and learn where people bring their lunch and you just sit and talk about a topic is another great way to do that and have the webinar support it. Another thing that can be helpful is just motivating fellow learners to take the next step. That extra bit of accountability can be a big motivator for people. So if you have a learning buddy, somebody who you have a date with once a month to talk about what excites you, what interests you, that's one way to pursue opportunities. And then also think about what it means to grow a learning organization. How can you support this in your library? And this is really something that can happen at all levels of leadership. You don't have to be a director or an assistant director to be able to support this in your library. You can ask questions of people and you can set things up to encourage sharing of resources and activities and let people know that you're interested. And it really does start to open people up to the idea that this is just how we do work. You should absolutely feel comfortable in coming to me with a question or an idea and then we can brainstorm together. So everyone has a role in being part of that. Kendra, we do have a couple of questions about actually about the previous, not the slide that you're just doing, but the one when you're talking about the webinars and recordings that you get, yeah, that one that you get from other organizations. Someone wants to know how do you get these content? And I know how you did it because you did it with us at commission, but I'll let you explain. How is the content submitted? Is there a vetting process? So what, and I was actually thinking about mentioning and I just let you go on that as I said, for us at the library commission, as I said, we have all of our Encompass Live archives on our page, but they are not all in web junction. You guys reached out to us. Yep, that is. So a lot of times we'll look to see where we have gaps in the content. You could have 10 things on shielding, but do people really need 10? So we look for where we have gaps on topics. So Jennifer spends a lot of time exploring what people are doing, what topics we don't have content for, and seeing if anybody else does, and then she'll watch the webinar or look at the training and then reach out to the organization and say, is this something we can include? Most of the organizations are like, you can include anything, it's fine. So we don't have to reach out to them every time we want to do that, but we've set up an initial relationship that allows us to do that. But a lot of times it's based on where we have gaps or if it's something that's really hot and upcoming that people are really interested in, and it's a new take, that's always something that we're interested in including. So that's nice to know that, yeah. So we did not submit to them, they came to me and just emailed me and said, hey, we have these particular ones we would like to include from your archives.  And that's how everyone has been. It's been so great that they were like, yes, absolutely, they want more out there. And so it is vetted with you guys actually watching them too, not just saying, oh, that's a cool topic, let's just put it on there. There is actual, they do sit and watch it and make sure this is something we want to include in the web junction catalog. Absolutely, yep. So one more thing about the social learning is that some of those issues that I mentioned on the previous page is that learning online can be really isolating even as a presenter. So I'm sitting in a room by myself. This is nice because we're using video so I can actually see Krista. You all can see me, but I can't see you as an audience. So that it can be a little, it's a different experience for folks for sure and as a participant even you don't know what other folks are doing as part of their participation efforts. You can see some of it with chat through web junction. You can see people contributing things, asking questions. And even now I know people are asking questions because Krista is sharing those with me. So I know there's folks out there. But this is really, we encourage you to take a role in your own online learning and how you want to be successful. You'll go further if you take up some time to invest in that and you can be part of making that successful at your organization as well. So just in terms of the online learning and how web junction tries to support people in these efforts, we encourage people to think about what times of day work best for you for learning. Where do you want to focus some of your attention and topics? If you go through the web junction course catalog, what are some things that you'd like to view in the next few months? You can go through and say, oh, these topics look interesting or I'm going to register for an upcoming course. More than 70% of all US libraries have had someone on their staff participate in some type of web junction program, which is amazing to me. So in our 15 years, we've reached a lot of people and we're always welcome and interested in inviting more people to this online learning party. I had the idea, that's a great statistic, yeah. That was a lot of work to get to that statistic, but it has been a fantastic journey and something that we're really proud of. So we encourage everybody to spend some time supporting yourself through continuing education and using web junction resources like Encompass or whatever your state library makes available or other great opportunities and then how you can support that within your own organization. So and you can reach out to us. So my contact information will be available and you can ask us questions about what it means to be an online learner, how to better support topics that you're interested in. We're available and interested in hearing what you have to say. So that's what I have. So I'm open to any other questions that people may have about what I presented on. Yeah, sure. Yeah, thanks Kendra. Does anyone have any other questions? Anything you wanna see? I know we had just discussed earlier if there were certain things you wanted to see on the site, Kendra can go live to the web junction page as well to show you these were just screenshots to discuss certain things. So if you do have any questions, get them typed into your questions section of your go to web interface so that we can get them answered. I just wanna say I've used web junction for various things. We've been sharing it, as you said, for years since it first became a thing through OCLC. And I've had an account there. I thought it was really great. I really liked being able to track my learning within there that I can see the things that, I mean, what we do here at Encabus Live, it's more like one-off things. Like here's all the different things we do. We don't have a whole all-encompassing database of keeping track of these things for yourself. But I liked that we could track that and see what you were doing once you have your own account in there. And it really made it, I think helpful in what you're talking about about setting up your own, yeah, setting up your learning plan and being able to see, oh, I did this one. Now let me try this. And maybe I need an update on this one that I did three years ago. It's nice to see that history and have it all tracked there within the account. I found that very interesting and useful, yeah. It doesn't look like anybody's typing in any desperate questions that he's writing right now. They ask throughout, so I guess that's good. Right. Well, and like I said, people are welcome to email me directly with questions either after they watch the webinar recording or after this session. So just reach out and we'll be happy to talk. Absolutely. All right, well, if nobody does anything I want to ask you now, I think we can wrap up for today. This was really great, Kendra. I'm glad to have you on again. Like I said, it had been a few years. I think I checked and it was 2013 the last time you were on and I know lots of things have changed and just definitely needed an update to put out there. And we do share these webinars and things, the content on our website for our libraries as well. So we're always keeping up with what new things are going on there. I do get the crossword, a crossword, crossword, crossroads newsletter. And look at that whenever that comes out. And it has given me some great ideas of things to share like you suggested. And ideas for other Encompass Live shows. You know, as you said, borrow, reuse. That's what we're all about here. So I've had to be a great resource. So I definitely recommend that too. If it's, I know a lot of people have trouble with just getting started, actively going to the website and looking for things to work on. But if you just sign up for the newsletter, you'll get these things sent to you and they kind of pop up with ideas. And then if you just take a quick glance at the contents or scroll through it quickly, you'll definitely find things that will then lead you to start doing more research and more learning on your own. And that's what this is really all about. Both Web Junction and Compass Live, all these things we do is keeping up with your own professional development and learning. And so many new things coming out that we need to all keep up on. And it can be overwhelming, but we're here to help. Absolutely, we can do it together. All right, all right, great. All right, then I think, yeah, nobody taped anything in while I was chatting away there. So I think we will wrap it up today. Thank you so much, Kendra. I'm going to, we're gonna have your contact info, right? Do you have a slide for that or just include that later? I'll include it. Yeah, okay, great. I'm gonna pull back Presenter Control to my screen here just to show you what we're doing here. There we go, all right. So this was today's show. As I said, we record the show and it is being recorded right now. If you go to our library commission website or online and Compass Live is just nlc.nebraska.gov slash and Compass Live. Or if you use whatever is your search engine of choice and your browser of choice, Google, whatever and type in and Compass Live, the name of our show. So far we're the only thing called that on the internet. So you'll just come up with our archives and our page and you'll be defined as online. Today's show has been recorded and we'll be here. This is our main page. We've got our upcoming shows for the next couple of months but right underneath there's a link to our archives and this is where today's show will be the most recent ones are at the top of the list. So this was last week's show. So probably by later this afternoon sometime as long as YouTube and everything cooperates with me, everything will be posted on here, I'll be the top one and there will be the session info. This was last week's, there'll be a link to recording and then a link to the slides that Kendra's gonna send to me later. So we'll have that in there for you as well and you can watch them all there. In our archives here, as I mentioned earlier we are in our 10th year. So we have a lot of archives and I know you mentioned Kendra, weeding out your things. For this, I'm not doing it that way. I'm just keeping everything there for historical purposes I guess. We're librarians is what we do. So you will find all of our 10 years worth of archives here. We just post them to YouTube and link to them. So as long as that exists, they'll be there for everyone. I'm gonna scroll down the bottom here just so you can see, so you don't wanna get dizzy. You'll see this goes all the way back to January 2009 our very first show. So as you're going through archives everything has a date, everything is dated. So you'll know exactly when it was broadcast live and you can tell, oh that is about Twitter from back in 2009. Things have probably changed and we find something more new but we do just keep them all here for historical purposes. Look, here's one that we did in Web Junction way back in 2009. Look at that. We did do a show and I think that was me presenting that one. Yes, long time ago. Anyway, so you can see all of our archives here. You can see how long each session is.  If there were slides or handouts or anything we have links to all those as well. So I'm gonna scroll back to the top now. We do have a search feature now in these archives because there are so many of them. You can search just the most recent years worth if you just want new info or the entire list of everything and it'll search the title, presenters any words in the description. You can use that to search for to find anything on a topic in the archives there. So that will be where today's show will go. I hope you join us. So that'll be wrap up for today. I hope you join us next week when our topic is many languages, many cultures responding to diverse health information needs. Christian Mentor is a health librarian here in Nebraska at the University of Nebraska Medical Center up in Omaha. And she's gonna be also remoting into us from the McGuggan Library of Medicine to talk about providing health related resources to the refugees that come here in Nebraska is a huge safe for accepting refugees. You can see your statistics she's got here over 11,000 refugees from 35 countries have come to our state and we bring, accept them here and they need specific information for health related resources. And so she is gonna come on the show next week and tell us about how at our libraries we can help them. So definitely sign up for that show. And then we have our other topic shows we have here. I've got Augustel booked. You'll see more coming up for September and October forward. And cover slide is also on Facebook. I've got a link here and this is our Facebook page over here where I post reminders to log in for today's show, updates about what shows that are coming, when our recordings are available. So if you are big on Facebook, definitely give us a like over there and you'll get reminded with notices just a couple of times a week about what's going on with Encompass Live. So other than that, that wraps up for today. Thank you everyone for attending. Thank you Kendra for coming in with us this morning and I hope to see you next time on Encompass Live. Bye-bye. Bye.


Connections. I'm Jay Fidel. Here it is on a given Wednesday and we have a special guest. Thank you, Scott Foster, for connecting us with Catherine Blau Knight. Can I say that right, Catherine? It's Bach Knight. Bach Knight, okay. And Catherine is a photographer par excellence. She's hanging in many museums and in many very prestigious places. She has made videos and she has made photography. She's a photojournalist and we have her on the show by remote from California. And guess what? We have a co-host who knows her personally, Marsha Joyner. Some say that Marsha knows everyone in the world. Of course. Why not? I'm a Gemini. You're supposed to know everybody here. Welcome, Gemini. Okay, so we're going to talk about you. Catherine Bach Knight. Sorry I mispronounced that. Catherine, how did you get to be a photographer so dedicated and so widely ranged the way you are? Well, I started out as a painter in oils at Arizona State University and then I was married to my childhood sweetheart in the Air Force. And we went directly from my school to Germany. And all of a sudden, well, a little bit of background is that my father-in-law, La Voie Bach Knight, was a major photographer and had it in mind that I was going to be a photographer as well. Little did I know, he gave me a book when I got on the plane to move to Germany on photography. And I wondered, why didn't he give me this book? I'm not a photographer. So as fate would have it, just about six weeks later I was in Rome and was on a bridge crossing the Seen River and all of a sudden I pulled out the camera that my father-in-law had given me because the photograph was so, I mean the image was so amazing. I just decided, you know, I'm going to try this camera and then I fell in love at that very moment with photography and it's lasted forever. Wow, how interesting. One moment can change your life. We don't have that photograph here in our array that we're going to show people, but I wonder where that is. Do you have it on your website? No, I don't even talk about that very often at all, but I have it in my files but not anywhere that I can put my hands on this for sure. Okay, well maybe we'll do another show and talk about what's in your files and hasn't been released publicly. So I'm just looking at some of the material I have on you. You're at Yale, in the Weineke Library, in the Women's Museum in Washington, D.C., in the Smithsonian Museum, in the International Center of Photography, New York, the University of Arizona, the Center of Creative Photography, in the Getty Museum, and a lot of photographs there, and Harvard University in the author and Elizabeth Schlesinger Library, on the History of Women in America at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study.  You've taken a lot of photographs. You have been dedicated to the profession of photographer and photojournalist. I want to turn for a moment to your incredible experience 30 years ago in Tenement Square, because that's what we're kind of looking back on this week is so much to remember and think about and analyze. And you were there. Can you tell us why you were there in Tenement Square? Well, the kind of extended story is I felt that I needed to document communism as soon as possible, because I believed that communism was coming to an end and I wanted to document what it was about, because that's what I do. I document cultures for personal reasons. I love that. And I believe that's the DNA of who we are and how we understand each other as a real culture. And so I asked my agency in New York City, CEPA Press, actually the director, Jimmy Colton, who later became editor for Newsweek, if he would send me to China on June 3rd of next year, of the following year. And so he put it off and put it off and put it off and then all of a sudden it came back and he said, Joe Gorbachev was going to Beijing and he called me out of the blue and said, do you still want to go to China on June 3rd? And I said, yes, I do. And that was about 10 days before that. And so that's what happened. I was on the plane and I arrived in Beijing on June 3rd in the evening. And a little background information is that, of course, the Tiananmen Square people were protesting there about, I think, seven weeks before this and, you know, having a hunger strike and peacefully celebrating the possibility for democracy. And when I left America, everything was just very peaceful and I didn't know exactly what was going to happen. But I did have an inclination that it was going to be a war type situation, but I had no proof of that, which is the way my photography life has worked is a bit of pre-visualization, intuition and education on what's going on in the world. And so by the time I got there, I went straight to the square and 45 minutes later, they started announcing on the megaphone that they're going to shoot to kill, leave the square. So that's the beginning of that night.  I mean, you're there. You're there in the crowd. There were hundreds of thousands of people, even millions in the crowd, and they say that. How do you exactly, how do you avoid being killed exactly? Well, you know, it wasn't that I really thought I could avoid being killed. That wasn't what was going through my mind. What was going through my mind is how am I going to get these shots? And that's just the way, you know, myself and most of my serious friends, that's the way it is. You just, it's yourself, your body, and then there's the alternate self, which is the journalist, and especially the other journalist, because you have to be there. And I've already trained my mind many times to be in the moment. And it's just a matter of, you know, checking into that mindset, and that's what happened. Yeah, you know, the offer of thought on that is that you feel as a journalist, especially a photojournalist, which is so tactile, you know, so connected, even more than words in a funny way, you feel that you're not there on your own account. You're on the account of all the people who ever watch your photograph. You are the agent of the world to follow of all the people who will ever see what you've done. And I think that's an incredible state of mind, and I can see the kind of commitment you'd have to stay around and not be afraid and run away. Marsha, you had something? Well, as a photo, like now, we get to see 30 years ago, no matter what, how many stories are written, it's that moment when you see it that it registers. Well, let's get in the mood on this and play a short video that you made with Denny Glover about what happened in Tiananmen Square. And some of your work is in this video a couple of minutes long. Let's play that now. Everything was peaceful in Tiananmen Square when I arrived in 1989. And 45 minutes later, after I was in Tiananmen Square, suddenly we heard gunfire sporadically sounding in the background. And there was voices on a megaphone that were telling us to move out of the square. And as we would move to the east wing, when they were in the opposite wing, they would follow us. And finally, they started opening fire. In mainland China, the spring of 1989, hundreds of thousands of students occupied Tiananmen Square in Beijing, China. It was the largest pro-democracy demonstration in the country's history. Catherine Bartonite was a photojournalist covering this story. They hoped for democracy and artistic freedom. Instead, they were wounded when the Chinese military opened fire. Instead of dialogue, Chinese government responded with military force. We started hearing sirens coming. And we knew something bad was happening. All of a sudden, we started hearing megaphones. The Chinese soldiers talking to megaphones saying, we're going to shoot to kill, leave the square. All of a sudden, we just started hearing a popping sound. And people were saying, they're shooting. And nobody could believe it. And one of the residents of mine, there is, I think it's a girl. She is a student. We'll shoot here. She's followed down. Very quiet. They started looking at me saying, for the free world, you know. Emotioning for me to take pictures. Catherine's pictures document the brutality, as well as the bravery of those in the square. If we really look into these people's eyes, we can see how important it is to them to be able to accomplish democracy. Well, from that movie, you know, you can feel the fear of it. You can feel the threat of it. You can feel the historical moment of it for sure. And Catherine, you say, this movie includes you in many ways. You're there speaking, and you're there taking photographs. You had a real presence in the whole study by Daddy Glover. And your photographs are there. Yes. And you were saying about this riot, this protest and suppression, was the day before the photograph with the man stopping, the student stopping the tank, right? Can you describe what happened? Well, as far as I know, it's the next day, because when I got in the square on June 3rd, the massacre had not started yet. It started 45 minutes after I got there. And so I was there doing the unfolding of it, and then it became dark, very dark. And so I don't believe there's any way that that photograph could be taken on June 3rd. It was taken probably on June 4th. Yes. But June 3rd, the night of June 3rd, when it all started, I can say from experience that that's when most of the gunshots were shot at the people. People died. And then the next, it went on all through the night. And then that includes the early morning of June 3rd. I mean, I'm sorry, June 4th. And by June 4th, about 7 o'clock in the morning, I came back to the square, and they were hosing down the square. And what I was told is that the soldiers, the government, whoever had burned the bodies and were hosing down the area where they had burned the bodies. This is serious, serious repression. But I totally really spoke earlier, Catherine. I heard a cinephile, a cinephile expert talk about this yesterday on the news hour at PBS. And he was saying that this was a really tremendous threat to the Chinese government, to stability in China. And they may not have seen it at first, but they concluded after a while that if they didn't suppress this crowd, there would be a much wider, broader revolution. And that's why they decided to do this. But this was a serious suppression. And it shows you that suppression is in the DNA, the governmental DNA, if you will, of China.  It's very interesting how that works. I don't know how many people were killed that day. This is what I do know, that the Chinese government first said that I heard the number three. People were shot while I was there the next morning. And then I heard, I think it was 300, it became 300 after I got home about a week later. And then the count changed to about over 300. And now the BBC is coming out with proof that it was 10,000 people, approximately 10,000 people. But before that happened also, when I was still in the square the next morning on June 4th, I was told that in the hospital there, that they had counted 3,000 bodies. And then destroyed the evidence. That's just perfect. Now we have some photographs that you did take that day. We have some photographs that you did take that day of people who were wounded. They are very disturbing photographs. But we elected on the side of showing them as showing the reality, showing the history and showing your photojournalism. And we'll put them on the screen now and you can talk about the kind of photographs you took. Here's one with a man on a table. He looks like he's in terrible shape. He's bloodied. He's a mess. And the people around him are obviously shocked. This looks like it happened at night. Can you describe the circumstances? Yes, that was about an hour and a half after I got there in the square and that was on June 3rd. What had happened was I was in a different area at first of the square and people saw that I was a journalist. I was carrying equipment. There was martial law. I wasn't supposed to be there. And so they would look at me and motion for me to take a picture with their hands and they would say, for the free world. And so that's when I really sobered up to the fact that I was the person that had to do this right now. They were asking you to memorialize what happened, to report back. That's quite an obligation. I can see how that would affect you as a journalist. I was concerned that they did not confiscate your camera. Yeah, that's another story. If the government knew, if the army knew that you were doing that and you intended to bring your photographs back, they certainly would have confiscated your camera and maybe you. Well, that's a whole other story. But if you don't mind, I'll finish telling you actually how I got that picture because it's pretty phenomenal if that's okay. Is that okay? Sure. Okay. So in that area, when they were telling me that, they put their hands on my back and gently pressed down on my back for me to go through this tunnel of people. They made a tunnel for me with their hands and arms. And each person, as I went by, put their hands on my back to direct me which way to go. And I ended up right where that person was. And the girl, that is also another shot that I've been wounded. But they wanted me to be there. And it was right, it was nearby Mouse Portrait. And it was just an alibot experience to end up there at Mouse Portrait after I'd seen it on CNN 24 hours before. So I knew sort of where I was at that moment just because of being connected with the news at that time. And then it happened. Right there while I was there, it was a projection of a phenomenal experience. And so the people knew that it was getting ready to happen there. I'm assuming to get me there seconds after it happened. And I believe that was the beginning of what was going on in Chairman Square when the soldiers started actually shooting people on purpose. Well, it's a statement of solidarity, isn't it? Those students, those protesters were protecting you, but they were also exposing you to what they wanted the world to see. That must have been a tremendous experience for you as a photo journalist. And I also imagine we've seen two particularly gross photos of people wounded or dying in that day. But you must have taken a lot of others. We don't have them now with us. But can you tell us what kind of collection you have? Well, most of the collection of the rest of them are incidents that were going on with the people and them actually speaking out to me as the messenger. And, you know, there were some, some things that I don't even want to say, actually. But mostly the most of them are the interaction of the students within the category of Tiananmen Square and how they were responding to it, helping each other. And the next morning, the depression and the solitude of the sadness of what had happened with smoke going up in the background, with some of the trucks that were burned and just complete sadness. When it began, it was more like a festival type atmosphere. And when it ended, it was one of the most gruesome experiences known to modern history. Well, how did it begin? Why were they there to begin with? What caused the... They were looking for democracy. That's been in the paper. This was a protest, a demonstration for democracy. But you said it started out as a festive... It often... I think these... And I was in Turkey with the riots there a few years ago. And it started out as a picnic. It started out as a social experience. But then if the government comes in with smoke and batons and the like and beat people up, then it turns ugly very quickly. And that's what happened in Taksim Square in Istanbul. Anyway, so the other thing I wanted to ask you is, you took pictures... I mean, these pictures of the bloodied people at night, it's not ideal circumstances for taking high-quality photographs. But I'm sure you got high-quality photographs, even close-ups of the people who were speaking, the people who were protesting, the people who were articulating the message of the students and the protesters, and probably recognizable faces. Are you reluctant to show those pictures in public? Are you concerned that the Chinese government today would take steps? Well, I am concerned about that. And that's one of the reasons that I have not been vocal or visual with exceptions, very few exceptions about what happened in Tams Square until now. And the only reason I am now, and I feel free to open up about it is because so many other people are doing it on this 30th anniversary. And, yes, I was told by one of the journalists that I was in the square with, a writer from a news company in Canada, that we were not... If we had put the photos out of the people that we took pictures of, that they would be punished, the people, or their families would be punished. So, yeah, I was very concerned about that. Okay, well, I would be too, especially with the Chinese affinity for photo, for facial recognition technology. Yes. Because they could recognize people off those photos, even though it's 30 years later. I'm sure they could. Well, we have a few minutes left before we close. I would like to go through some of your other work, Catherine. Okay. Because I think it sort of frames what you did in Tiananmen, and it explains your life after Tiananmen. So, let's go through some photos now. I will describe them to you and give us the background. So, we have a photo of a man. That's a woman. A woman standing knee-deep in water with a pottery bowl. And where is that from? What was that project? That is in Ethiopia. The project is called Bad Water, and it was for World Vision. And I was the photographer hired for World Vision to document these people who could only get water from one particular area in Ethiopia. I think it was three villages, and it was all, you know, poisoned water. It was bad water. And so they would get diseases, and children were dying. And the reason I was there is to help bring that information out back with World Vision so that they could raise money to help build wells for these people to get clean water. We have more pictures in Ethiopia. Let's take a look at another one. Here's some kids playing in water in Ethiopia. They're very cute, but you really wonder if there are antigen in that water that is going to make them sick. Actually, they're drinking the water. That's where the water comes from. They're drinking the water, and it's contaminated.  And their hair, their heads shave because they have epidemics of lice, and so it's hard to tell, you know, girls from boys from a distance. But yeah, they're drinking the water because that's all they have. The cattle also get into the water and any other animals, and they also bathe in the same water. Now that's changed for that village because of this particular project that helped build wells and purification areas so that the people can have clean water. One picture is a thousand words, maybe more with megapixels. So let's go to the next one. Now here's an Ethiopian, what, a mother? Yes. And a child. That is a portrait of the two, and that is a remarkable photograph. What are we saying? There was this lady that had a hut there, and this was outside in the villages outside of Addis Ababa. And she had no money, of course, and she had a hole in her roof. And she was asking me to find out if she could get that hole in her roof fixed, and I had just given her one of my sandwich that we had for the crew that was working there. And she took the sandwich, which I thought, because they were starving. And I thought she would feed the sandwich immediately and fill her belly, but she didn't do that. She put the sandwich in her pocket, and she had this child. And I asked her, aren't you going to eat the sandwich? And she said, I mean, this is all broken languages. And she said, no, she was going to share it with all the other children in the area of the village there, and all of her children that she was connected with, that one sandwich. That story is extraordinary, and it tells you so much, not only about this woman, but about so many people just like her, about the life and times in Africa and Ethiopia at the time. It is very powerful.  Absolutely, absolutely. So now the picture we've been looking at during this show, it's you holding an award. What is that award? Just an award for winning an award for Hawaii, a voice for sovereignty, a documentary, and it's given by the Red Nation Film Festival, and it's for Best Environmental Photograph. And it won eight awards. That film was made in Hawaii over a period of five years to help raise awareness of sustaining the culture of Hawaii through the voice of the people and helping to give the voiceless a voice on what has happened to their culture. Let's spin through the last few of these photographs because we have to close. But I have a question for you, for Jay, for you and Jay. Can we air this film? Yes, of course. Sure we can, and we will. We will. Let me go through the rest of these because we don't have any time left. So this is what, Hawaii, a voice for sovereignty. That was the name of the movie and this is some of the materials about it. How long ago was this, Catherine? Well, it was released in 2012, and I started in 2005 and shot for five years and then spent the rest of the time promoting it throughout a lot of parts of the world, Italy and Australia and New Zealand. And won awards in most of the places that we actually entered it in and film festivals. And then finally released it in the theater in 2012. And it won some awards. Here's a shot of your winner of the best documentary film as a result of this in a variety of cities. That's quite impressive. Now I want to go to some of the photographs that were involved with the film. Here's a woman, a young woman in the back of a truck. Was that part of the film, or was that just something related to the film? It's part of the film, but I had a camera, a film camera on one shoulder and a video camera on the other shoulder. So that is actually a steal of the moment where I came upon this young girl in the back of a truck on a Sunday afternoon of Hawaiian culture. And I talked to her father and he said they came there because that's really the only place they could go. And it was really a dirty area where some of the sewage was coming in. And that the hotels had some of the places that they used to go to blocked off.  You know, I can't help but thinking that your experience in tenement prepared you for this. Or at least it changed your way of looking at things and every shot that you took after that somehow reflects your experience in tenement. Let's go a couple more real quick. Now here's, I guess it's a native Hawaiian man with long hair in the woods. That's a portrait for sure, black and white I guess. What's this about?  He's really one of the first people that would talk to me on camera about the losses of the Hawaiian culture and the takeover of Hawaii in 1893. And so he was in the woods, a red area. He was going to take me to a sacred area and when we got there in that area he was going to pick some greens that he normally does to bring back to his family for all of his life. And when we got there, there were bulldozers right in front of us. Did you get a shot of the bulldozers too? Yeah, yeah I did. But the very special thing about that is that you can see how the forest itself and the expression on his face is when he saw it. You can see he's actually got a plastic bag. You can probably see a little bit of that. He was going to pick the greens and put it in the plastic bag. And so that was the moment that he realized that the bulldozers were coming to his sacred forest. Oh my goodness. More than a portrait, it's a story. And now I think this is the last one and we'll close our discussion on the point with this. This is a Native Hawaiian man holding the American flag with all 50 stars. What does this mean? Why did you take this? How does this relate to the film? Is that a hole in the flag? Yes, it's a hole. Very interesting, Marcia, that you point out. See where the stars, right at the bottom of the stars, right next to the stripe, the red stripe. So what is this? Yes, well, that's a kahu that was very active in supporting the Hawaiian culture and also what he's saying is it is not, Hawaii is not, it's not owned by the United States. Okay, I guess it makes the point. I really want to see that film and I hope we can arrange to show it on Think Tech. Marcia, we're out of time. Catherine, we're out of time. Marcia, I want to offer you the opportunity of thanking Catherine and closing our show. Thank you so much, Catherine. It's always a pleasure to spend time with you even if it is this long distance. Perhaps you can thank Marcia. Perhaps you can thank her coming back so we can show the film. Absolutely. That would be amazing. And I'm so glad to know that you were on there and thank you, Jay. Thank you, Catherine. It's wonderful to have you here and I would like to do more shows with you either here in person or by remote one way or the other. And I would like to show your sovereignty movie for sure. So we'll talk some more. Thank you. Aloha. Aloha.