good morning everyone it is Tuesday morning I just put a bunch of serums on that's my face looks crazy I'm trying to decide if I want more makeup or not today okay I guess I will just a little bit anyways welcome back to another college week in my life bug this is too light on my skin you guys are new here be sure to subscribe I attend soy leadership college in Los Angeles which is accredited through southeastern University so it's just like an extension site campus of southeastern so today is my first day of classes for the week I've causes Tuesday Wednesday Thursdays and I'm recording a podcast episode Ryan you guys requested him so much I mean I was already gonna ask him but it was just really funny how much you guys requested him so it's gonna be very fun I'm almost I like to what's new I know I need to really get my life together I guess I'm like really doing this a little bit and I came home to a package from princess Polly and I've so many new clothes so hopefully tonight I'll be able to film a haul so I can just like put them away but wow I'm gonna leave and go to class okay I'm gonna show you guys my outfit I really need to leave but here we are new I'm Gia coat in black honestly this quality feels worse than the normal like like tan tiny one but it still is really soft so weird um this sweater from princess Polly it's so freaking soft pants from princess Polly they're all of my jewelry is princess Polly and then I'm just wearing some sneakers wow actually I was exhausted when I woke up but I'm really excited for school today okay I'm probably gonna listen to a podcast let's pick them out speaking of podcasts have you guys listened to I love you so much with Kinsey Elizabeth this is like the comfiest outfit I think I've ever worn in my entire life okay oh I actually have been liking Sadie Robertsons which was a nice surprise I mean not that I thought I wasn't gonna like it but it's really good not the lighting is better of course walking to class we're getting Joseph Dom's about to be your favorite guest I'm gonna give you a run they they briefly my head this morning also where's Joseph part I like how I'm literally him I'm about it's ballet it's curved set of systems anything anything that slightly puts Joseph off anything that slightly puts Joseph off he calls it ballet he's like oh I know it was ballet for you like if you have to bring dog her stuff I'm like ballet I know that's why I said like you know let's call a spade a spade we gonna call him ballet talk about it's the clean version of art in our ears you're so sensitive we got months out Jordan house this is how we do it it's Friday yeah you hear what he said the West side don't make me preach right now I felt the spirit move when he said West did anyone see him I wasn't looking I wasn't looking for him I gotta be honest I was doing all this stuff we're in a rush wait I need to pull this up to the front of this section alright no seriously though we are in a rush it's really correct do you think we're just gonna sit here for 10 years no no we're no we're not what do you have in this bag freaking cinder block there a single pair of Jordan's ride he's never owned is in that gym bag not true I own over five pairs not one of them is in that gym are you ready so good I wonder if I can hit the note at the end can we just get some too it's gonna be fast-folded you missed that okay I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry it's our song it's our song you didn't do a good job with that you hold my floor yeah I did one thing Joseph says the entire time is that we're in the studio wow Joseph had an outfit change amazing coffee Ryan can you tell us the story of this hat so what happened is at the hotel there was a gentleman who checked into the hotel with a bedazzled lake he had a white hat on and I thought it was the coolest thing seriously when he came in it was like glistening I was like that hat is awesome so I saw him the next day and he was raving about the slippers I said yeah you know Justin Bieber made those slippers famous on upscale hype and now everybody wants montage slippers so what I did was I sent him ten pairs to his room I'm waiting for my first yeah Joseph really is waiting he's mentioned this one okay so he came down he came down after receiving his ten pairs of slippers and left me this hat that's incredible don't you know I had an internal battle for about a week and a half after I got this hat as to whether or not I could wear it and I finally mustered up the courage to wear it and I'm glad I did not wear it all the time mustered up the courage it's incredible one of the hardest pieces you own that's incredible yeah yeah it's up there there's a lot of them you know EAST is not the best for me yeah you love the best okay we just wrapped up recording oh I'm like recording in the mic some way that was incredible Ryan you were born to do this I think that was probably the best one we've recorded really? yay I want to have this one up too Taylor that is music too he is saying that because everyone does good shows but it was really good I think it was the best one I'm so freaking good I'm excited for our I want to do us four together that would be great that just makes more sense that's perfect amazing we're not in CLC anymore guys I'm scared when I bring friends from like my normal life to like this stuff I'm like just you know it's like not normal I'm so hungry that I can't vlog right now but we're getting chifla I'm angry praise god cool thank you so much no idea we're so hungry we literally oh wait can you ask for a sweet and sour sauce that might be an idea but yes can we have sweet and sour sauce please thank you thank you so much have a good day real recognize real thank you lord we just left you up right now we just claimed victory over today in jesus name because y'all we were talking big nonsense for a hot minute cause we were just hungry we were so hungry and then every like two minutes can't do be like I can't speak I'm so hungry we went to the Beverly center we were jose's assistant and now we're going back to my house okay bye girlies look at this beautiful chifla this is the best thing I've ever seen in my entire life chifla sauce wow I needed that today because we started to do one minute of work I'm in so much pain we got into a car accident I'm acting surprised I've stayed out until 3 am the past three nights having to wake up at like 6, 7, 5 you know so it's like I don't know why I'm acting like I'm like shocked here we are my favorite place on earth besides my office oh I love your dogs wait what thank you artist texan Josh sent it to me it was rude about it but wow got my ice chai I love the new sleeves the texan sleeves thank god they're safe that's incredible do you want to head over what yeah you do it's a whole new realm I've never seen someone's face light up by looking at themselves before no you see it hiding behind the bush oh it better be hiding it's about to jump in my office it's just you wait where is it it's right there I swear to you it is the same squirrel I promise you also have you seen look at the new Alfred here right here texan have you seen that that's incredible it's creepy that's the squirrel it's in my bedroom they like there's a vlogger now okay guys so we're gonna have a little bit of a Q&A yeah what is your favorite type of food I'll miss hold on I gotta take this call Josh too turning Lady Gaga happy Wednesday everyone I just got ready I am about to head off to breakfast to some friends and then to class it's like 7.30 ish jewelry princess Polly forever 21 jeans are Levi's and then my white Fila sneakers so tonight I just went to dinner with a friend and then talked for like a while and then I went to bed at like 10.30 which is the earliest I've gone to bed in a very long time and it needed to happen oh that's I don't know my beautiful salmon stock my favorite salmon stock in the world it is so good wow made it to class aww there's Christina behind me back with my beautiful view I think it's just mine but whatever today is the day of merch oh okay well Abby Joseph Angel where's yours so weird anyways incredible so then your outfit do a little outfit of the day okay well nevermind you've lost your privileges but nice hoodie please don't hold this up I didn't know you were behind me and then I just saw now we're leaving me again everyone alright so I just got out of track I'm actually now on burbank Hannah my friend Hannah as you guys know oh my gosh this is like melting she is shaving her head which is crazy there's an entire video on her channel you guys should go see it's already up by the time this vlog is up but am I probably gonna cry anyways we are at the studio 71 studio space Andrew I actually need to call him yeah because we'd never walk in or do anything alone basically but yeah I'm about to go into that into that today class was really fun it was really good but things stuck on her not the guy we're here Angel life it's just crazy Mason what's a tribe I had no idea Ian was coming I I got no idea you're like okay so we're getting somewhere making progress it means yeah you're recording that right when I was it was real bad it was really zoomed in and I think it was I'll have to keep it in why are you something else you and I just decided that he's gonna get 25 seconds of every vlog we're gonna shake on it pleasure doing business with you inspired by David what why what did you say though you were like wait you're I'm gonna try and put in brand deals wait no this is genius what was he what was he gonna do okay I'm back from Hannah's it was so it was just I'm just so proud of her she's literally the best person ever it was amazing um her video and everything will be on her channel I'll link it down below remind me in the comments down below if I forget actually about to leave her church so I'm not gonna vlog tonight I have so much footage um the only the only reason I really want to vlog is I'll be with Ryan and just always so good but not tonight um wearing my really comfy jacket and I'll talk to you guys in the morning wow really good morning everyone I just got out of the shower um it is Thursday morning I have class today we have um class from like 10 to 3 I'm class from like 10 to 3 um so last night we went to church and then we went and got to play I think a really big group after it was really fun I didn't start going to bed early because I'm like wow um trying to do it all it's not really working out for me so I took a shower I got ready I'm wearing like really comfy outfit clothes comfy whatever this is what I mean I need to sleep um tonight it's so exciting because we had like our upperclassmen they had like a upperclassmen like party but they like rented out a house really close to me actually like pretty close so I am so excited and they so they did this party and I had the game hot seat if you guys listen to my podcast you know I love it but also if you know me in real life like I play hot seat every single day with like every single person that I meet and my director Nate the one who's on the podcast was like so where I think we can do like a hot seat and you can like make a hot seat so um I'm gonna finish that tonight before the party and then head over there so it's gonna be super fun um I'm actually like so excited for that I love my like friends at school and stuff so it's gonna be super fun um anyways Christina's about to pick me up about to head out to class we're getting Starbucks with the heck and then um go into class made it oh my gosh there's a tray in my face made it to class not really I'm walking to Starbucks yeah we're not like that late only nine minutes late we're always on time but it's okay it's fine thank you it's like not hard but when I started YouTube this is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my entire life anyways alright guys it's much later it's after school now anyways we have like an upperclassman like house party outing thing tonight it's gonna be super fun so I don't know how much I'm actually gonna vlog of that it just depends Ryan and I are doing hot seat so it'll be fun um I quickly just got ready and I changed it's like a really easy outfit cause I'm like really in a rush of course I'm gonna make some coffee and then leave I feel like I look really just like different in this but awesome my friends are going shopping my friends I mean one friend giving him all the skincare essentials for your glowing skin the glow up is about to happen guys do you know how mad Ryan can already be I hope he doesn't see this part he just can't get on my level the glow up is about to happen yeah I mean this is what happens when he doesn't give you the montage slippers I'm still waiting for him in my inbox so yeah inbox doesn't make any sense I stopped that and then what do you mean in your inbox inbox would be like your email your mailbox your mailbox oh versus 107 alright alright happy Friday it's the next day I didn't vlog last night it was so fun and we did like hot sea and circle of honor forever which circle of honor it sounds really cheesy and honestly it's kind of cheesy but it's like you pick one person and then everyone like raises a hand and like it's like compliments but it's really good anyways so it was so fun I love my school so much and everyone there anyways today is Friday so that means today is a filming day I filmed an entire haul and try on haul already this morning it is like 11 something I'm headed downtown I'm gonna pick up Lada and then my friend Angel from school Angel is like one of the most creative towns people ever and she really wants to work on a lookbook but we really want to work on one together so we're finally doing that today and I have so many cute outfits already put them all in my car I did go pick up some film too I've been needing to pick up this roll for like a week and I'm just never home at the time that I need to go pick it up so I'm gonna go pick that up headed downtown pick up Lada and then you guys will see like a little behind the scenes of like filming and just kind of like a work day so here with Lana we are at the USC village we are just gonna go into favorite place we're just gonna go to Target and my New Zealand memory card and then probably sunlight get some food catch up and then at 2 in a little bit we're gonna pick up Angel and start shooting which will be very fun back being a downtown girlie we got our sunlight bowls the dragon bowls my almond butter, no almond butter for Lana amazing we are shooting the first outfit look at this, look at this camera woman guys that's my old apartment building for anyone who wants to know the olive it was amazing, I was a huge fan Terry to front desk, that's my girl but she still works there and uh in my back right now because self scanning in a garage in DCLA looks like, oh guys I'm nude, haha million views, where's the oh, a million views million views, there we go nude, look that's me in the thumbnail we're really something else man no, no, no, no, no she, she's something else okay it's me, I'm something else, yeah, yeah, yeah true wow, she's glowing, she's tan uh, look at my busty Angel wow look at the scale, who would have thought the beginning of the DLC would be here me I put lotion on my legs and then we're good this isn't the most me outfit I've ever seen okay so this is what your car ends up looking like after you film outfits, like it is just a tragedy, I'm gonna try to organize that before we leave we just finished, it only took us like an hour and a half guys, that's very good I'm so proud, so so proud


Hello everyone and welcome to our session about insights into unsecured Kubernetes in the wild. We are really excited to be here virtually and hope you'll enjoy and learn from this talk. All right, so let's go over the agenda for today. First, we'll talk about attacks against misconfigured Docker, we'll talk about the notorious misconfiguration in Docker that allow executing commands on Docker Demons and then we will talk about the trends, the growing trends of attacking those demons and after that we'll go over the research we did which is split into two parts. The first one is that we thought how Kubernetes can be misconfigured and then we actively scanned the internet for such misconfigured Kubernetes clusters and the results are going to shock you, at least they shocked me. After that we'll go and talk about the honeypot we deployed. So we deployed those honeypots in order to see how frequent and what are the impact of those attacks on misconfigured Kubernetes components. So basically those honeypots are the misconfigured Kubernetes components and then we'll show you the results of the honeypots and then we'll talk about Hidegard which is a crypto jack-in malware we found using one of our honeypots. It's the first ever documented malware that is designed to attack Hublets and we show you how it takes over all of the cluster. Then right after it we'll talk about how to avoid such misconfiguration so that stuff like this won't happen to you. All right, so let's go over who we are. So Umi and Jay both are security researchers at Palo Alto Networks under unit 42 which is the division for threat intelligence in Palo Alto Networks. Our area of expertise is the cloud. We're both really enthusiastic about the cloud and all of our researchers were about anything that involves the cloud that includes vulnerabilities, malware, campaign, attack surfaces and everything that is security-wise interesting. And as you see by the pictures we are both proud pet owners. I got my dog and Jay got his cats. Hopefully someday we'll be friends. So let's start and talk about insecure Docker demons. So basically Docker demons listen on a unique socket for API requests and only root can acquire this unique socket. So Docker count on that and that's why they don't have any authentication or authorization mechanism inside. So anyone that acquired this socket can just run any commands on the Docker demon but there are also another option to configure Docker to listen on a TCP port but as I said earlier by default there isn't any authentication or authorization. So that leads to the situation where people just expose their Docker demon using the TCP socket and they don't have any authentication or authorization and anyone can just access their demon and execute commands that can create new containers, delete existing containers, pool images, execute commands on existing containers. They just got full privileges. And actually last year we found that there were over 1,400 exposed, unsecured Docker demons online and my hunch is that during the last year this number just got in increased, right? So we have this misconfiguration but is this really a problem? Does anyone really exploit those demons? So we wanted to test it and in 2019 unit 42 researchers detected a malware that exploits exploit this misconfiguration and they call it Graboid and it was a warm, a crypto jacking warm. Its purpose was to mine Monero which is a cryptocurrency and it propagated through the misconfiguration of Docker and just exploited it and scan other Docker demons and exploited them as well. So we saw that and this was two years ago and it was just the tip of the iceberg because since then we saw numerous other malware designed to attack unsecured Docker demons and we actually have a honeypot that been operating for more than one year and a half and we could see that during this time the frequency of attacks was more than doubled and the number of adversaries was more than tripled. I talked about it on this blackhead and the findings over there are just nuts. So we have this problem with Docker and everyone exploited but we wanted to ask ourselves is there any similar issue like this in Kubernetes as well? Are there any common misconfiguration in Kubernetes that can allow such attacks and if there are, are there any attack surfaces for that misconfiguration and if there are any attack surfaces, are they being exploited in the wild? So that's the question that led us in this research and now I'm going to hand it to Jay. Thank you, Arif. Let's dive into Kubernetes. So we have seen a lot of attacks against misconfigured Docker demons and we thought that, hey, this may also happen to Docker's bigger brother Kubernetes. So we want to look into the attacks against Kubernetes in the wild and what are the components, what are the attack surface of Kubernetes that we are focusing on? So we picked two components in Kubernetes, API server and Kubernetes. The reason we picked these two components is that they mirror the functionalities of Docker demons in Docker environment. API server is like a gateway to the entire Kubernetes cluster and Kubernetes is like a gateway to a single worker node. So API server can control. So API server takes HTTP request and translate into operation to control nodes, parts, and deployments in a Kubernetes cluster, could be that text usually takes HTTP request from API server and translates those HTTP requests into operations in a single worker node. So let's see how these two components can be misconfigured. API server misconfiguration. So by default, Kubernetes API server listens on two ports, a secure port and a local host port. Secured port use mutual TOS to authenticate between clients and servers. By default, it runs on port 6443. So any clients who need to communicate with the API server need to pass strict mutual authentication in order to invoke any API on the API server. And for the local host port, it is by default, it is intended for testing and bootstrap purpose. By default, it is exposed to only local host on port 8080. It is not supposed to be exposed to the entire internet. It can only listen to requests coming from the same host of the API server.  Any anonymous request sent to this port can actually act as a system domain of the Kubernetes cluster. So what can possibly go wrong with this local host port? What if the local host port is exposed to the public internet? So on the right, this is how a could be API server can be misconfigured. If someone accidentally bind this port to <IP_ADDRESS> instead of local host, this port is exposed to the entire internet. And anyone who knows the address of the IP address of this API server will be able to control the entire cluster. So this is one of the most common misconfiguration that we have seen in the past. And another commonly seen misconfiguration in API server is overly permissive role-based access control. So by default, Kubernetes come with a set of before role, before cluster roles, and before role-binding. For example, by default, what I highlight in the order box here, then an authenticate user or an anonymous request sent to the API server is mapped to an authenticate group. And this group is bound with the public info viewer. So the system public info viewer role doesn't have much permission, it can only view a list of APIs available in this API server or in this Kubernetes. Whatever Kubernetes complex, each cluster can be shared between tens or hundreds of developers. And more and more developers working in the same cluster, what if someone accidentally finds this system authenticated to another more privileged role such as cluster admin or admin. And this can be also, this again can be really bad. Any attackers or cyber criminals who knows the IP address of this API server will be able to gain privilege control to the cluster. Now let's look at the second component that we focus on, Kubilet. Kubilet works similar to API server, but it can control only a single worker node. It can control only the containers and parts in that worker node. By default, an authenticate request sent to Kubilet are mapped to system anonymous user or system. This user is mapped to the authenticate group. So this user in group doesn't have too much, doesn't have a lot of permission in the cluster itself. However, by default, Kubilet a set anonymous request. So anyone who can communicate with Kubilet can send request to it. And this is a problem. By default, this Kubilet allow anonymous access. What if someone accidentally exposed this Kubilet port to the entire internet? This again, a very common misconfiguration we have seen. Although the misconfigured Kubilet is not as bad as misconfigured API server. However, a misconfigured Kubilet allow an attacker to gain control to a single worker node. And from this single worker node, they gain the initial access and can start to move laterally to other worker nodes in the cluster. We will see in the Heal the Gar mailware that we found. Now let's look at how we can, how we find real-world attacks against Kubernetes. We need to find, we, at the time we started the research. We have the hypothesis that Kubernetes will be attacked in the same way as attack Dr. Demen. But we didn't have any proof. We didn't have any data. So we have to find our data or create our data. So we lay out two different research methods. We proactively, a project method and a reactive method. For the proactive method, we periodically scan the entire internet for misconfigured Kubernetes. And for the reactive method, as Abby will talk about in a few minutes, we deploy a few intentionally misconfigured Kubernetes having to track attackers and to learn what are the techniques and procedures of these attacks. So one advantage of having these two methods deployed at the same time is that they can actually cross-verify with each other. Our Kubernetes scanner should be able to find our misconfigured Kubernetes Honeypot. And on our Kubernetes Honeypot, it should be able to pick up the scanning traffic from our scanner. So this is how we actually make sure these two different methods all work as we expected. For the proactive research, as much as we would like to scan the entire IPv4 space for ourselves, it is not that easy. Actually, as soon as I start to scan the internet, either my ISP or the cloud server provider send me a warning. They typically don't like their customer to scan the internet. This scanning traffic is usually considered malicious. So I went for an easier path. Instead of scanning the internet by myself, I used the internet IoT scanner, such as SENSIS and Shodan, to help me at least identify the potential misconfigured endpoints. So I used these two services from SENSIS and Shodan to collect data for them every week and do some data aggregation and filtering to come up with a list of potential Kubernetes nodes or potential ports that run API server or Kubernetes. Then I started to query those nodes to see if they are misconfigured. And after that, I did some post-analysis. The result is what I'm going to show in the next few slides. Overall, in the period of three months, we identified more than 2,000 unsecured Kubernetes cluster that consists of more than 5,000 nodes. And within these 5,000 nodes, there are more than 31,000 CPUs that attacker can potentially abuse. And within these 5,000 nodes, there are more than 75,000 active bots running. And one of the biggest clusters that I encountered during the research had more than 500 nodes and more than 2,000 active parts. And that's a very shocking finding and also sad because if an attacker found this cluster, they can not only steal data from that Kubernetes cluster, they can also start to deploy a lot of malicious payload in this particular cluster. So there's no way that I could individually identify the owner of each misconfigured Kubernetes cluster. But for a few that I could pick into, I can see that they belong to e-commerce, finance, or even health care providers. And the figure here shows the overall findings throughout the research. We overall came across more than 37,000 containers and 47 different images. And in this cluster, they exposed more than 83,000 secretes that can be used to access application or parts or even the host. And each cluster exposed, each misconfigured Kubernetes cluster exposed different set of APIs. So because due to the misconfigured role-based access control, every misconfigured cluster can be misconfigured differently. For example, among all the misconfigured Kubernetes cluster that we encounter, 18% of them expose the part API. They can list all the parts and read all the parts in those clusters. And only 13% of the cluster exposed the secret API. And overall, China and the United States, these two countries add up to more, about 75% of the misconfigured Kubernetes cluster. This is kind of expected of these two countries where most of the network infrastructure or cloud infrastructures are hosted. And these are some common, these are some malicious activities that we have seen in those misconfigured Kubernetes. Most of the malicious activities started from deploying an official and signed Docker image, such as you want to send OS or DB. When attacker deployed this type of official and signed image, they are generally trust by the Kubernetes platform. However, after deploying this image, the attacker then deployed the malicious payload inside this container. Most of this payload that we have seen involves in crypt objecting operations. Some of the payload may also attempt to infect other nodes in the cluster, such as Hildegar that everything will spend in a few sites. Now, I will pass to Avid to talk about the reactive research, what we found in our honeypacks. All right. Thanks, Jay. I'll take it from here. So let's talk about the reactive research. So basically, the reason we did this reactive research is to see what is the frequency of those attacks and to see if there are any other attacks. And if there are, then what are the impacts? So we deployed two types of honeypots for around six months. And the first one is misconfigured API server, whereas the RBAC is misconfigured in a way that any user that will access the API server will have admin privileges. So that's really critical. And the second honeypot is misconfigured Qubelet. In this honeypot, we just deploy Qubelet with anonymous access allowed and exposed to the internet so that anyone that will access this Qubelet will have permission to do anything he wants on that specific node. So let's go over to the results. For the API server, it was really kind of disappointing because we saw zero exploit attempts. But one interesting thing that we saw is that census scanned us really in depth. And when I say in depth, I mean that they query the API server for nodes, for pods, for RBAC, for secrets, for anything that the API server had to offer. And for those of you who doesn't know what census is, so that's a search engine. They just scan the whole internet, put it in a database, and allow users to query this database. So our honeypot for sure is being in census. But other than that, nothing interesting happened over there.  We got exploited numerous times by different adversaries. Most of the attacks were for cryptojacking purposes. And one of the attacks included a really interesting malware. They did a lot of mess, so we decided to explore it. And then we found out about Hildegard. So that's the name of the malware. We decided to call it Hildegard as there was a string in the binary, which was Hildegard. And this malware is just crazy. It's the first ever malware that is designed to attack Qubelets and to propagate across the cluster. And we'll talk about how it operates. So first of all, the first thing that happens is that the attacker exploits an unsecured Qubelet. And after that, it deploy a container that includes first teammate client, which is a tool that can be used as a reverse shell. And this way, the attacker can run commands on the node. And the second thing they do is they deploy a mass scan, which is a scan tools. And this tool scans the internal network of the cluster and try to find other Qubelets. And when it does, it exploits them as well. So Hildegard just tried to propagate to all of the nodes in the cluster. And on every node, it deployed first a crypto miner, which mine Monero, and an IRC client that will connect to an IRC server owned by the attackers. And this way, the attackers could send commands to the containers and do whatever they want on the cluster. So that's how everything works, basically. But we wanted to talk a little bit about the techniques they use because we think it's really worth talking about. So let's go over and talk about through the escalation. And Hildegard deployed two open source tools. The first one is pirates. So this tool scan for cloud credentials and in the cloud metadata server, whether if it's AWS, GCP, or Azure. And it also looks for service account tokens or secrets. And when it finds one of them, they just try to escalate to get higher privileges. The second tool is PotB. I hope I pronounce it good. Well, it's break out the box. And as the name implies, it will try to break out of containers. It will try to use known vulnerabilities. It will try to find if there are any capability or syscall that are in there by mistake and try to exploit them. They'll try to access Docker daemon on the host, as we talked about in the first slides of the presentation. They also try to find some cloud and Kubernetes credentials and even look at the environment variables for credentials. And other than that, Hildegard by itself has a script that tries also to find credentials. And it will scan the cloud provider metadata server. They scan for SSH keys. They scan for Docker credentials. And of course, and foremost, they scan for Kubernetes service accounts token. So you can see the script below. That's how it does so. All right. And two, my favorite part, which is defense evasion. Well, Hildegard uses two types of techniques of defense evasion. The first one is they use LD preload. And we won't get into what is LD preload because that can take, like, 30 minutes. But we'll just say that Hildegard just hijacked some libc functions. And while hijacking them, it replaced them with other functions that basically does the same as the normal functions, except the fact that they sanitize the output. And by that, I mean that this is how Hildegard hides itself. So let's say, for example, we run PS. So we won't see Hildegard in the PS. And if they run LS, we won't see Hildegard in the LS. And if we run top to see the CPU usage, we won't see the CPU usage because the LD preload function will show us something else. And the second part is the encrypted ELF binary. And Hildegard uses a well-known RSC client. And in order for him not to get detected, they encrypt it and decrypt it only when running into the memory. So in this way, Statica has his tools, cannot be effective. All right, that's all for Hildegard's first day. Jay, can you take it from here? Thank you, Aviv. Now, let's look at how individual can protect and defend against these cyber criminals. This threat exploit is configuration. 99% of the known attacks exploit is configuration. Like we only look at the API server and the misconfigure. API server and misconfigure could be left. But as Aviv mentioned earlier, this is just the tip of the iceberg. To our biggest surprise is that we didn't see any attacks targeting our API server honeypot. We think that attackers haven't really moved from attacking back a demon to Kubernetes. Kubernetes is much more complicated than the attackers. And however, the potential computational and storage resource as well as data in the Kubernetes can be much bigger and more juicier than is configured by the demon. So we think this can be just the beginning. And we expect to see more and more attacks against Kubernetes in the near future. What are the best, what are the strategies to protect your Kubernetes infrastructure? Best practice, follow the best practice should be, should keep you secure, really secure. The layers of defense building to the Kubernetes platform provide very strong security, such as namespace isolation, network policy and second, secure your network and identity. As long as you make sure you don't accidentally expose your Kubernetes components, such as API server, Kubernetes, proxy, XCD, you should be safe from 99% of these attacks and also secure your identity, make sure you follow the principle of this privilege, minimize the number of users in your, users and groups in your Kubernetes and continuously monitors the permission provision to these users and applications. Finally, patch frequently, patch not only your application, but patch also your Kubernetes. Well, Kubernetes is complicated, involving a lot of moving parts and when you have a cluster of hundreds of worker nodes, it's not easy for a single person to oversee them. You can never be 100% sure that you don't have any insecure or accidentally introduce any misconfiguration. So if you are not so comfortable to provision and maintain the Kubernetes clusters from scratch, use a managed Kubernetes service, such as AWS EKS or Azure EKS. Call service providers can help you manage and control the control plan, and you only need to manage the application running on top of the Kubernetes clusters. And also most of the call service provider have some sort of guardrail to oversee your Kubernetes cluster to make sure that you don't have any misconfiguration. Next one, ephemeral workload design. So if you have a ephemeral workload design, meaning that all the parts and containers in your cluster can are stainless, they can be keel and restart anytime without losing anything. So if your container infrastructure or microservice applications are designed this way, then attackers don't really have any way to get the initial or get the foothold inside your application. As long as you see a container's drift from the normal or benign state, you can simply just keel and restart the container and you start from a fresh and clean state again. And finally, continuous monitoring is also important. Use tools to check configurations of your cluster and use tool to check for suspicious workloads or check. Again, although your infrastructure is here, your application may be vulnerable. Your zero day or new vulnerability may be found in the application deployed in your clusters. And if a attacker can attack those applications, there may be a chance that they can escape, break out the container and start to attack your company. So continuous monitoring to a company cluster is important. And this is the end of our presentation. Thank you for being in our session. If you have any questions, feel free to reach me, Jake, at peolato.networks.com for a VIP. This is a session. It's his email at peolato.networks and we also publish the findings in Unifor two bucks. Feel free to go to the Unifor two.peolato.networks.com to see more of our research.


Fy hoffi'r unrhyw busnes y dynnu fydd yn gweithio. Fy hoffi'r dynnu fydd yn gweithioわyndol yng nghymru mae'mlwstrif i Gweithfeydd allanfaithiaith yng nifer, yn y Llywodraeth oedd yn y Fflaesiaith Gwasllau. Rwy'n ddigon i gweithio i gael y canŷ painting i'r ff whipig, ac i gweithio i'r ffrif urwg yr ydynt yn gweithio fydd gyntaf gyda parlymyng yn ddych chi'n gwych ar gyhoffi'r gweithio. I want to bring greetings and prayers from Assemblies of God, the Pentecostal denomination that I have the honour of leading and the church that I currently pastor, Champion Life Church, in the east end of Glasgow. A couple of weeks ago, I sat down at the end of a busy day, like many of us do, and switched the TV on. Sky Sports News came on the screen, and because it was transfer deadline day, lots of frantic activity was taking place as football clubs were trying to secure last-minute deals. This year, a staggering £1.165 billion was spent in the transfer window, with an incredible £155 million on transfer day alone. Football is big business these days. For many, it's life and death. Some say even more than that. The church that I currently am a pastor of is situated one-third of a mile from the home of SPL champions Glasgow Celtic. Football has come a long way from the 60s when a team of young Scottish guys, all born within a 30-mile radius of Parkhead, became the first British team to win the European Cup. Football sadly now is big business, and money has to a large extent spoiled the natural beauty of the game. Advertising and TV sponsorship is central to income now, with companies desperate at all times to showcase their products. Over the years, I've seen many adverts at sporting spectacles, but the one that has lived with me most was watching on TV a World Cup a number of years ago when a young man was seen clearly on the TV screens with a white t-shirt with the words John 316 marked clearly on it. An obvious reference to the Bible verse in St John's Gospel where Jesus said, for God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. As a Christian minister, this cuts right to the heart of the gospel message I believe in. I preach weekly and I trust live out daily but want to share quickly with Parliament today. The story is told at the end of World War II of an American soldier who was making his way back to his army barracks in London. As he turned the corner in his jeep, he saw a young boy with his nose pressed up against the window of a baker's shop drooling at the selection of cakes and pastries on display. The soldier pulled the jeep over, got out and went over to where the young boy was. Son, would you like some of these? The boy was startled.  I want to say this afternoon that we are never more like God than when we give. John 316 says, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son. 33 years ago that love of God radically changed my life, changed my priorities and value systems and the love of God propels me to do what I am doing today as a Christian minister of the gospel. My prayer for Parliament and every MSP this afternoon is that as you go about your business and Parliament that you would experience more and more of the love of God personally in your lives. God bless you.


I'm going to set you on a move and a job. So this is a two step direction. Step number one. Oh, this is just, this just became a three step direction. Because step number one, please stop markering. I'm going to write this down for you. So don't worry about having it on your marker board now. Step number one, clip your mark, click your marker cap on. Step number two, safely with your materials back to your desk. Oh, and nobody move until I say secret school. At your desk, boys and girls, I want you to get three evidence sticky notes ready. Just take out three sticky notes, put a one on top, a two on top, or a three on top. Secret school. While you're doing that, I'll write down that idea. So I'm going to be turning around to see which one of my boys and girls I can highlight as a good example in about 10 seconds. About seven seconds. About four seconds. Two. I spy great examples from Hailey because she has her materials at her desk and she has three sticky notes on which she has a number one, a number two, or a number three.


Our unit was designed to protect Saigon. We knew we made noise and they could smell us. The six guys from our unit were separate from the rest of us. You can't put the genie back into the lamp. Well, get down, get down. Father Phil, it's an absolute honour to have you on my show. And I had the pleasure of chatting to your good friend Alan Cutter the other day. Good. I'm sure he kept you amused. Yeah, he said some great things about you. Oh, they were all lies. He said, don't lend you any money. That's for sure. Which part of the States are you in, Father? I'm in New England. I'm in the Rhode Island, which is about 34 miles from Boston. Oh, wow. So East Coast. Yes. And you've got French-Canadian history going by the surname. My father's side, yes. My father's grandparents are from Canada, the French-speaking Canada. And my mother's a French war bride from Paris, France. Wow. Salwa. Have I pronounced it correctly? Yes, Salwa. And you are the esteemed recipient, Father, of the Silver Star. Yes. Yes, thank you. I am. Yeah. And equally, if not just as incredible is the work you do for traumatized veterans and struggling veterans. Yeah, we've been spent a long haul, but a good long haul, even gone overseas to give conference to the Republic of Georgia in 1989, which was really exciting. Yeah, I bet. Father, can you tell us then, how did you first get to hear of Vietnam? I was drafted in 1969 in March, because I wasn't going to volunteer, but I wasn't going to run away either. My father was a World War II veteran, so I didn't want to bring shame to my family. And so I was... Would you still have joined up now, now that you have a sort of wider perspective on the world? No, because now that I know that war, we should never have been there anyway.  I didn't know the whole story. That the story didn't really devolve until many years later. People get traumatized. It's very difficult to deal with.  It comes back, it could be something that there's a sense of smell that brings them right back to Vietnam. You know, the smell of nuoc mam, which is that fermented fish sauce.  Yeah, exactly. And it was the light infantry brigade that you joined. The 199th Light Infantry Brigade. It was a sign to me. But it was a great outfit. And it'd be a very good outfit. Still friends with many of them. We have reunions. And when we get together, we don't talk about the war. We just talk about the good times, the brothers together. And the wives get along well together, which is great, you know. Yeah, that's probably the main thing. Yeah, yeah. And what's it like arriving in country? Is it similar to what we've seen in the Vietnam movies? When I first arrived into country, it was quite a shock.  And the smell of death. It's amazing that the smell of death is all over the country. And you get on these buses with bars on the windows to protect you, to bring you into the confound. And I mean, we're just kids. We don't know what's going on. We're just huddling together. And it takes a while for us to get adjusted to it. They send us to what they call a reassignment camp where they're going to do it. That's where they're going to assign you to the different units. We went there by ourselves. We didn't go there by units. So we went there individually and we came home individually, you know? So that was the bad part of that war. So you were alone at the beginning and you were alone when you came home alone but with other people, but not with the people you fought with, you see. Yeah, there must have been traumatizing in itself to come home. And you guys were taking a lot of unfair criticism. Oh, yes. Well, thank God we arrived at night. And so we, all the protesters had gone home. So I was very fortunate when I got my flight home to Los Angeles. See, I was living in LA at the time, California. And so that was quite a surprise when I went into my parents' house. They didn't know exactly when I was coming. So I went and surprised them, you know, and opened the door. My mother nearly had a stroke. Being an only child, it was very rough on the parents. I remember my father saying not to write to my mother about bad things in Vietnam, because he said, you know, she almost had a nervous breakdown.   Yeah, well, it's all a new experience for you and such a vivid and extreme one. Well, it's my first time away from home. You know, I'd never left the house before, you know, it was kind of a homebody and it was interesting. I remember my mother, when I was in conflict, I served in the Northern Island conflict. And we had to keep all our details obviously private in communications. I remember us talking to my mother on the phone one time and she said, she said, so when are you back? And I said, well, if you think of the date of my birthday, then add 11 days on to that. That's that's when we're coming home and she went, oh, you mean September the 15th? My code, my code failed. And did you do your beat up training before you went or did you do it in the country? We did more training before at Ford or basic and a it advanced infantry training. And that was the six weeks each six weeks for the basic six weeks for the advanced infantry training. Then when we got to Vietnam, they spent two more weeks training us with the jungle warfare. So we got training again there before we got to our units. And that was quite interesting as well, you know, because they were able to give us more updated information on how the war was going. And but it was quite an interesting experience. There's a lot of it that I don't remember. But I remember pretty much everything until that ambush that we got involved in. And after that, my memory, they call it psychogenic amnesia. It's a way of protecting yourself from further harm in the brain and in your mental capacities. So you can still function. You can still fight the war. So when I got to my reunions, I didn't remember anything after March 1, which is the day that I had from the Silver Star thing. Because I was there till October of that year. So when I get to my reunions, I talk to some of my buddies, they said, we were in another ambush. We were in a couple of other ambushes. Oh, tell me about them because I don't remember. Was I there? He says, yes, you were there.  You know, but it was incredible.  But I guess that's a way of God telling us, you know, you don't want to suffer any more pain.  And to this day, I don't remember anything after March 1, except until I got my job in a rear. I think in my ninth month, they offered it, they were looking for a company clerk, someone I knew out of type. So I said, why no out of type? I says, I'll take that job. But let me go on my R&R first, said I was going to go to Hong Kong, you know. And he says, oh, no, we need someone now. I says, we'll find someone else.  I'll take the job now because I knew I'd have that job until I went home. And it was a good job back in the rear. It was safe. It was safe and I could take care of my guys on the field. And so that part, I remember being in the company clerk position because that was pleasant. That was fun. It was good, you know. Do you remember Adrian Cronauer? Was that as big as it was made out to be? Yeah, you mean a Good Morning America? Good Morning Vietnam, yeah. I remember the voice. I didn't know what his name was. But I remember we used to listen to him all the time.  And it was great. It was a little bit of America, you know. Father Phil, do you remember going out on patrol for the first time? Yes, I remember. I remember when they assigned me to the 199th, they were already out in the field on patrol. So they said, oh, good, I'll stay in the rear until they come home. I said, no, no, we're going to drop you right off with them. I said, well, grab. So they dropped me right off where they were right in the middle of the field. And I remember this one guy came up to me. He was a surfer dude from California. And he came up to me and says, you got any Kool-Aid? I said, yeah, I guess I'm a Kool-Aid.  I mean, I didn't realize he was joking. I mean, I thought he was serious. So I gave him my Kool-Aid. Because they were thirsty and I had all sorts of supplies in my bag. So that was my introduction to this.  But I remember another man on my first patrols. My squad leader was from Guam. And so he had an Oriental look. He could have passed for a Vietnamese. So I remember one day we were setting up camp. And my squad was going out to put out a landmine. And another squad was going in the opposite direction to put out their landmine. So we're walking out there and with the landmine setting it up, all of a sudden we get receiving rounds. Somebody's shooting at us. So I said to him, what was his name? God, I don't remember his name now. But anyway, I said, you know, they're shooting us. Well, get down. Get down.   And it was ended up finding it was our guys shooting at us because they saw my squad leader and they thought he was a gook. And they didn't know that we were going out to set up a landmine.  Nobody got hurt. But boy, did they get, they get lambasted with, you know, father, did you ever have anyone in your patrol injured or killed? I'm trying to think before there was, we had one that we were doing. We were still in the rice fields and walking along the rice path. I was in the second platoon. This was in the first platoon. I remember one guy stepped on landmine. It was far, far from us. We didn't, I could see him in the distance. He got blown up and the guy behind him got, got hit with shrapnel. Really bad. That was the first kill. I don't remember, I don't remember his name. That was when we first in country. So I was still kind of getting used to the people, you know, but no, I actually, the most time we went out, we didn't meet any contact. It was, it was when we went out for that six months from when I was in, we went in for that big ambush. The North Vietnamese were starting to come down. And we were fighting with Viet Cong before that. And the North Vietnamese were real soldiers. They were on their way down to try to take over Saigon. Our unit was designed to protect Saigon from invasion. We, our unit was supposed to go into this, there was a huge bunker complex. And then North Vietnamese bunker complex. We knew where it was.  So the first platoon was leading out the first day. And it was February 28th. Actually it was about this time of the year. And one of the guys got killed that day from the first platoon. Got hit. So we were, we were close enough. We decided to take a trail out in the opposite direction, because it was getting dark already. It was five o'clock in the afternoon, but triple canopy jungle gets dark very early. So we set out for a couple of clicks, 2000 meters set up a camp. We thought we were going to attack that night because they knew where we were.  We were, we never could travel through the jungle quietly, you know, we knew we made noise and they, and they could smell us, you know. So, but anyway, we set up camp. Nobody slept that night. I mean, we were supposed to put out guard, but we were also so scared. The next morning we got up and it was our platoon, my platoon that was supposed to lead out this time. And the captain said, let's go down the same trail. Let's not bother trying to blaze a new trail. Let's go down the same trail. Well, that was a big mistake. We never go down the same trail. We started out early in the morning and the break of light. And about 15 minutes in we were, I was in the fourth squad. So I was in the back of my platoon.  We started hearing gunfire rifle shots from all over the, from all the three distances from the three directions. Realized that we had walked right into a U shaped ambush. And so immediately we're trying to make a defensive perimeter to get a defensive line to return fire and wish returning fire. We're firing over each other's heads.  And I was carrying a grenade launcher. I didn't have an M16 and grenade launchers in jungles are not terribly useful because you got to aim it at a direction where it doesn't hit a tree. So it'll ricochet back to you. So you have to shoot it right up at a 45 degree angle. It makes a lot of noise and it scares them. So after about 15 minutes, I realized that we were separate for six guys from our unit were separate from the rest of us. And there was an open clearing. And we, and they had the radio, they had the platoon radio. So we had to bring the radio from the first platoon to try to get to touch with them. And they were not responding. So we don't know if the radio got shot up or if they were all killed or what we weren't receiving any, any messages from them. So we just kept returning fire, but we made sure we weren't firing in a direction of the upper left flank, because that's where they were. So I after I got really angry that none of us were trying to make any efforts to save these guys. And if I was out there, I'd want someone to start coming out to help us say, get back to safety. So I'm not done. I said, a prayer to God, I said, God, as I'm going out there to say, rescue these guys. If you get me out of this mess safe and sound without a scratch, I'll do anything you want. And that's the promise I made to God. I went up to the front line. I told the guys, I'm going out there to rescue these guys. He says, you're crazy with a name 75. What are you going to do with that? I said, I don't know, but I'm going to go out there. So one guy came up and said, if you're going to go out there, I'll go with you. He had named 16. That was named Herbert Clug from Dayton, Ohio. So we low crawled out. He said, there's a big boulder out there. Let's crawl out to this boulder and use that as a cover. And we'll just blast that whole right flank with everything we've got. I'll shoot those grenades as fast as I can. And he's going to put on rock and roll as we call it. Full automatic. And we did a good job out of the corner of my eye. I could see one, two, three, four guys, one by one, making a run back to the safety line. We knew that there were two more guys out there because there were six guys when I didn't see any movement. Herb said, we better make a run back ourselves. They're either dead or they're too injured to move. We'll go out and get them after. So on our way back, we low crawled back together, back to our line. I made it back safely. I noticed that Herb wasn't with me. I said, where's Herb? He didn't come back with you. I looked over the berm and he's laying flat on his stomach halfway out.  He was so heavy. And I later said to myself, that was my first encounter with dead weight. I never knew what dead weight meant until you try to pull a dead man by yourself. So a couple of guys came out and we dragged him in, turned him over and he had received a round in the chin, went out to the top of his head, had ricocheted off the ground and hit him in the chin, went up to the top of his head. Never knew what hit him. The guys said, we need to go out and get these other two guys. I said, okay, but we've got to bring some help. I can't carry anybody but myself. So a couple of guys went out with me.  And we found a lieutenant and the point man. Point man was injured. We carried him back. Come to find out he had lost an eye in that injury. His name was Kamrat. And the lieutenant, Terry Bowell, was killed. We carried him back. So we dusted off Herb and the lieutenant and all of the injured. We had, our platoon was at 27 people in the platoon. We had only seven people that were not injured in that platoon. Everybody else was dusted off in helicopters. We were there all day. We didn't get out until about five in the afternoon. I was one of seven that never got injured except in the head, in the brain. And that, I believe now when it was God was covering for me. He had protected me. And we, we made another camp because it was getting late for the night. And I thought sure that they were going to come and finish us off. We had scattered them.  The bunkers were empty, but we didn't think they ran that far away. And we, and I knew we didn't kill all of them. So I thought sure they were going to come and finish us off that night. Couldn't wait for the morning to come. So morning came and we went up a little ways to another landing zone. They dropped off 12 new guys to replace some of the guys that we dusted off. They put us, they put them in our platoon. 12 FNGs.   So we had to train them pretty quick. I became a squad leader. I was only a PFC, but because I was there for six months, I was the expert in jungle warfare.  Never fought a war again like that. It was crazy. But that's basically that story. And it took me 13 years to tell that story. Because I went into hiding when I came home. Nobody wanted to hear that. Nobody wanted to know I was in Vietnam. You know, it was a shameful war. It was a, we were called baby killers. All kinds of nasty names. So yeah, it was a tough time. It was the 60s, the sexual revolution. You know, it was hippies, peace, love and all that. And we were going to war. And it was just the opposite, the contrary thing going on. But it was, took me four years after I went back to work. See, when I was drafted, I was working for an insurance company. So I went back to work. They had to take you back. If you were drafted out of a job, the job had to take you back. They took me and they liked me anyway. They used to send me care packages and all kinds of stuff. So I went back to work. Four years later is when I remembered that promise. You know, actually four years later, I read an article in the paper saying that there was a lot of big shortage of priests, priests were leaving. See, it was Vatican II, you know, the church was changing. A lot of the priests were leaving the priesthood and all that. So I said, well, Jesus, that's too bad. So I kept going back to our article. I kept going back to our article. Maybe, maybe I'm being called the priesthood. I don't know. And so I decided to go to the vocation director for the archdiocese ballet. And in the fall, I ended up enrolling in the seminary. So I went there and I, I said, I hadn't finished college. I only had one year college. So I got, I got to finish my college education. And I ended up leaving the seminary. And not deciding what I wanted to do.  My mother kept saying, will you please decide what you're going to do? Either you're going to leave the house, you're going to leave the house. I turn your bedroom into a sewing room now. So that's when I went and got an apartment and all that. Then I, I pastor said, you know, if you, if he told me, says, if God calls you to the priesthood, he never changes his mind. It means that he means it. So think about that and pray about it. Okay. So what I did is I ended up thinking I want to move back East where I grew up. So I wrote to a few orders in the back. Losolat was one of them. Just so happened. One of the guys from Losolat was vacationing in California at the time. They wrote him and sent, set him up to interview me. He interviewed me and like me and said, yeah, I think you have a vocation in the priesthood. So he wrote back to them. He was a former provincial. So he had clout. And within six weeks I was packing my bags and driving back to join his community. And it was until, um, Let me back up a little bit. When I was in the seminary in California. I was in two years. So it was about 1974. Four years after I left Vietnam. When I was saying my rosary and I remembered same to God, how happy I was to be here. And I felt that he had called me here and he told me I had, that's when I heard him say to me in my prayer, you remember that promise you made to me four years ago? I said, yeah, I do now. I said, if you got me out of this mess safe and sound and do everything you wanted. He said, this is what I want for you. And I had never remembered that promise until then. It was really amazing. And it was a confirmation that I was where I was supposed to be. So I never looked back. So I just kept going. And so I ended up getting ordained in 1984. And started my ministry and on an Indian reservation, California, stayed there two years. Then they called me back East to be a treasurer. And they're a big shrine. I didn't want to be a treasurer. But that's when I got involved in veterans groups. And then all of a sudden. Vietnam veterans started coming to me. Telling me about their problems. But the marriage problems or their problems with memories of Vietnam and all that. So I started counseling them. And because I had a, my degree in theology also as degree in pastoral counseling. So. It was taking quite a bit of my time. And the community said that this is good ministry. And so the provincial said, you know, maybe. You should think about getting a job at the VA. The veterans administration. We could work with veterans full time. So I said, okay, I think I'd like that. So there was an opening for a chaplain. At the VA. It wasn't full time. It was four days a week. I applied for it. And because I was a Vietnam veteran. And because I had a silver star. I was put on a priority. They would have to hire me before they hired anybody else. So I got a job right away. And I got a job at the, at another VA. For one day a week. At a PTSD center. As a spiritual advisor. So I did that for a year. When a full time position opened up. At the VA I was working at. I applied for the full time position. So I could, because two full, two part time positions. Didn't equal a full time. So I want to be full time. So I got the full time job. In Boston. And. I stayed there for 27 years. Just retired in 2015. It was during that time that I started that conference. National conference of Vietnam veteran ministers. We changed it into international conference of war veteran ministers. That's where we invited veterans from England, Australian, New Zealand to come. And that's when Martin joined. And we, we remained. Together for like 25 years. We kept having retreats and doing that. But then we, you know, Alan guy, I got old. A bunch of us got old and we got tired. And the Gulf War was happening. And people were in the Iraq war was happening. And, and there was a lot of similar groups. They were doing spiritual healing. For their particular. Veterans. And so I said to Alan and Jack day. And I'll say again. So there's a lot of organizations that are doing the same kind of work we're doing now. For the new veterans. Because we couldn't talk to young veterans as they come into service. And so I said, maybe we should think about dissolving. And, you know, Alan was having some health issues with, we're all sorry, I mean, health issues. So we decided to just fold up, you know. And, but I kept doing it at the VA until I retired. Now I'm still working full time with veterans in my local community. I'm the chap on all of my veterans organizations. VFW, American Legion and vets disabled American veterans. Vietnam veterans of America. I'm still a national champion there. The 35 years have been the national champion. VVA. Military veterans of foreign wars. All of them. And so I'm busy. And I like that. I'm busy or none of them when I was working. You know. But that's basically a story in my life. Do you have any questions? Wow, I've probably got loads father. What, what does spirituality mean to you? Well, in my, as I was counseling the guys, very few of them are religious. Most of them had given up religion. See what my, my generation in the 50s, we all grew up going to church, whether it was a Catholic church or a Protestant church, you know. And so when we went to war, many of the guys lost their faith, lost their religion, because they blame God for bringing them there. They couldn't believe that God will allow such death and destruction to happen. So where is God now? God has abandoned us.  So when I came home, I had to develop a different way of speaking to my veterans, because I never lost my faith. I never lost my Catholic faith. That's what kept me through a life going through Vietnam. And so when we came back, I had to learn new language. I had to say, well, you know, all of us have a soul. And our soul is individual. And it's a spiritual part of our lives. It's not in the brain. It's in the heart, so to speak. But we all have to learn that we're not like animals. We're different from animals. That's what makes us different from animals. We have a soul. We have emotions. We have feelings of sorrow, of emotional hurt, psychological hurt. Well, you know, those things we can heal. These things we can talk about. And so I would try to introduce, you know, God in different ways without using the name God, you know. And many people develop a spirituality around that. And that's when Alan and I decided, maybe we need to develop a retreat that will speak about that and let their stories be their spirituality. Let that be their spirit.  It freed them up. It said that they weren't alone. That they were someone that felt, had similar feelings, similar reactions to things. And that's where healing takes place.  It'll always be with us. It's like a scar, you know. I always compare it like a jigsaw puzzle, you know.  There are too many pieces. I have too much patience to put all the pieces together. But if, and when you do finish a jigsaw puzzle, it makes a nice picture. You know what is different about jigsaw puzzles? You can't get rid of the lines in between. There's always the lines in between to separate the pieces. Those are the scars that we wear, the emotional scars. We'll never get rid of those scars. We don't want to get rid of those scars because those scars are a reminder of where we've been. And that helps us to help heal other people. So I go by calling ourselves like Henry Nowan was a Catholic Jesuit. He called us, we're wounded healers. And so I use that theme. We all have to become wounded healers to each other. And that works. And I was able to work with the psychology department at the VA. They were finally at that point opening up the point where they were allowing me to come in there because science and religion, they don't mix too well. And they were always very suspicious of me, you know, until they heard my story. Until they heard the way I was talking with the veterans. And they saw that what I was doing was good. So they invited me to some of their groups, their psychological groups. And it was good. And that's how they start opening up their... What do they call it? Their therapies anyway. Do more spirituality type of spiritual rounds. And they develop different kinds. They go to yoga. They develop yoga, develop different kinds of meditations. Using meditation for healing. A lot of Eastern types of things, Buddhist type of things, you know. I went to a Buddhist retreat with Thich Nhat An. And that taught me a lot about healing as well. I don't know if you've ever heard of Thich Nhat An, but he was a Vietnamese monk who was exiled from Vietnam who gave retreats to Vietnam veterans. And for healing, he was a marvelous man. He just died recently. But he was a great man. Wrote several books. Anyway, I keep babbling on. No, it's wonderful, Father. And what's your relationship with Jesus? Oh, we're like this. You know, I pray to Him every day. I pray for Him in the morning. I never lost my faith in Jesus. He is... I can't wait to meet Him.  I always say, Lord, take me anytime you want. And, but, you know, it's His time. It's His choice. And I'm very, very religious, you know. But I don't push it to people, you know. They know I am. But I don't push it on anybody. Even my local veterans group is only like one that goes to church every Sunday. Others don't. A lot of them are brought up Catholic, but they're not. But they, you know, they have their own spirituality. They have their own beliefs, you know. I don't push anybody. They've got to do it on their own, you know. It's if it's something they want, you know. Father, when did you find out that you'd been put forward for the Silver Star? It, I came back home. And two years later, they, I got a letter in the mail. This was in us living in California.  That was two years later.  And of course I was so bitter against the war, bitter against the military.  Just mail it to me. I'm not interested in you pinning it on me. So they ended up mailing it to me. I got it officially pinned on them when it went back in the reserves. While I was working at the VA. One of my chaplains, the rabbi was a full colonel in the army reserves. And he for two years kept after me to join the reserves because they were so short of Catholic priests. And by that time I was, I was, I was like, I was open to the military. I had gotten over that. And so I, it took me two years from to convince me, but I had to do it. Well, before I was turned 42, because once you're 42, they don't take people because you're too old. So I said, okay, I'll go. So when they, when I got my commission as a first lieutenant, I went and went to the base. They knew they knew that I had my silver star. They knew that was never pinned on officially. They said, we would like to officially pin that pin your silver star on you. I says, okay, I'm ready for that ceremony now. I wasn't then, but I am now I had my mother with me. My father was deceased. And the mayor of my town came. A lot of my community people came. And it was a nice little ceremony and it on. I got my commission. So I served in the reserves for 12 years. The reason I got out is they were going to go to Iraq.  And I couldn't do that to my mother to leave her again. She was, that would have killed her. I had a hard ship out. Otherwise I would have stayed the entire 20 years. So I got out there as a captain. One thing I didn't tell you. I think it's important. Is the year I started the. The conference. More veterans conference. 1990. Was also the same year that I went back to Vietnam. I went back to Vietnam with a group of veterans. The VA has put out a. Program. The psychology department, psychiatry department. Same with organizing a trip back to Vietnam. For war veterans. To bring you back to your area where you served. To see if it would be healing for you was a test. And we will have a VA psychiatrist go with you. And you will have. Sessions every night. To debrief. So I signed up for that. And I got approved. I didn't go on the first trip. I was gone for the second trip. Of 12 veterans. All of them were Marines. Except for me and a couple of other gun or army guys. So most of the guys. Serve were in the northern part of South Vietnam. I was in the south. And it was one woman. A nurse had served in July. So we went back to Vietnam. And. Oh boy. My mother thought I was crazy. My Vietnam friends at home thought I was crazy. Why are you going back there?   So I said, I got to go back. I really hated Vietnamese people. I needed to be healed. And I had to figure out a way to. Fall in love with them again. So I went back in there. Back. But the first place we went to was Hanoi. North Vietnam. So. Went to North Vietnam. Got off the plane. And it was soldiers with their pit helmets. Are we running out of. Tape. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Are we running out of tape? No, I'm just looking at my map here. Just to. Orientate myself in country, so to speak. Okay. All right. So. I got off the plane and still the smell of death. From 20 years before. Incredible. 25 years before. And. It was really shocking going to go there. I got, I started having an anxiety attack. In the airport. At the Hanoi airport. So the, the, the lady came with us, the nurse. She gave me a valium, half of a valium. She says, take this half a valium. Give me the whole thing. She says, oh, half will be enough. She says, yes, nurse. So I took it and it calmed me down for a little bit. You know. Went. Selling our hotel. Went to our first restaurant. And. Eating all kinds of strange food. And. I broke down at the table. I started crying. I said, I don't think I should have been here. I think everybody was right. I think that was, I was wrong to come here. And. It's, it's just not going to make. I'm not going to be able to stay. It's a trip was for three weeks. And I, I break down the first day. So the psychiatrist, the VA psychiatrist, takes me out onto the balcony and talks to me. He puts his armor on me. He says, what's going on? I said, I don't know. I'm breaking up. I says, I think I'm going to, I think I'm going crazy. He says, you know something. You're not. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to do. You're just, you're the first one. To do it from this group. You just got to relax. And take everything in. And we'll talk about it. But you'll be all right. You'll be fine. He calmed me down. And. You know, the next day we started walking through the streets of Hawaii. And the first thing that the kids do, there's children all over the place. They see white skinned people, Caucasians. And they run up to you. They come and they circled. And they're all around you. They're like four or five year old kids, seven year old kids. And I sit to them. I says, oh my God. And I never liked children to begin with that much, you know, especially a lot of them. They make me nervous. So anyway, they wanted this. They wanted to touch us. They said they kept touching us and all that. And the guys were saying they've never, they don't see white people often, you know, and they don't see white people at all. And so you're, you're different to them. And that they had to harm you. I said, okay. So that night we talked about, it says, you know, I remember the passage in this gospel where Jesus said, let the little children come to me. Do not harm the least one of these children. And I said to them, I says, yeah, you know, it's the children that are trying to heal me. It's okay. I can love them. And it was through the children's eyes that I was able to start looking into the eyes of the men, my age, the Vietnamese men, because I kept thinking you could have been an NVA or a Viet Cong fighting against me. You know, and it was, and we did meet former soldiers, you know, and that was the intent to talk to each other and to heal. So it was, then I moved on to my area and I'm going to skip until the end, the day before we go back. I celebrated Mass at the Cathedral in Saigon. I asked the priest, the pastor, if it'd be okay. See, he knew, he didn't know English and I didn't know Vietnamese. The only common language we had together was French. So I spoke to him in French and I asked him if I could kind of celebrate the Mass with him. And he said, yes, come back tomorrow. And it was a daily Mass. It wasn't a Sunday Mass, but daily Mass, the church was full of people, Vietnamese people, and they sing everything. And it was beautiful. And he asked me to speak to them at the homily. I spoke to them and I said to them in French.  And here I am, 20 years later, here to ask forgiveness for my participation in the war and for you to forgive me and for me to forgive you for the hurt that you've caused us and me. And it was very healing for me to say that. After communion, I sat down and I looked at this and I said, wow, who would have thought 20 years ago I was fighting in a war against these people that I would be here as a pre-celebrating a massive reconciliation of forgiveness. It was so powerful. When I went back to the hotel, one of the guys that was at that Mass came up to me with his daughter. And he spoke to me in French. And he said, Father, can you help me? I said, I don't know. We're leaving tomorrow to go back to the United States. What can it do for you? He says, I adopted two Amaritan children. You know what Amaritans are, right? American Asian? Yes, where Americans they get pregnant with their Vietnamese women and they become an outcast to the Vietnamese people, the Amaritans.  And he asked me if I could help him come back to the United States on the Amaritan program. See, if they had Amaritan children they were first priority to come back to the United States. However, not the entire family, just the Amaritans. So let's do what I can. So I got his name, his information, all that. When I went back to the United States I wrote back to the ODP people the departure program from Bangkok. They were the ones that were doing processing. I can't remember what it's called. My age, I don't remember a lot of things. Yeah, it's okay. So anyway, I wrote them back and see if that family was in the list. He said, yes, this family is at the bottom of the list. I said, I would be willing to sponsor them. I don't know what it means to sponsor them, but I would be happy to sponsor them. He says, wonderful, they wrote back. They were immediately put to the top of the list. All they were doing was waiting for someone to adopt them. Okay, I sponsored them. They went to Hawaii for six weeks to a reeducation camp to learn English, to learn quite a few things about the culture and whatever. History of the United States. And then they came at the time, six weeks later they came to Boston.  And we had the press there. We want to make an interesting story. And I had gotten an apartment for them in Adelborough. Really cheap. And so we got them, we greeted them, we greeted them with flowers and all that. It was a wonderful experience. And they're four children. They're four children were adults. And they're still living with them right now. They stayed about six months there. Then they disappeared. They found that they had relatives in Santa Ana, California. Santa Ana, California is called Little Saigon. Because that's where it's like Chinatown in Los Angeles or New York. So they wanted to move back there, but they didn't want to tell me because they thought I would stop them. Because they were, I had adopted them. I wouldn't have done that, but they ended up saving money. And they flew back there. And it was little while later when they contacted me. And they apologized for leaving without telling me, but they were afraid that I would stop them. I said, of course not. So I was happy for them. Now they're all become citizens. And when my mother died in Boston, I flew her body back to California to be buried with my father at the cemetery, the veteran cemetery. They, the whole family came to the graveside for the ceremony to be with me because they called me papa. Then they brought me to their house for dinner that night. So they still write to me every father's day. They send me happy father's day. So it was an interesting story. So I've got a family that I adopted. That was part of my healing. Yeah. Yeah, part of my healing. I love the Vietnamese. I love Vietnamese food now. So it seems crazy to think that you've kind of come through the years with your story. And then of course, the people that didn't come back or at least they didn't come back alive there. It seems always crazy to think their families have had to continue to and that they're out there somewhere. Yeah. And there's that. There's been that gap in their lives. It's, you know, yeah. Yeah. In fact, in May, we're going to be dedicating a gold star family's memorial finally in our cemetery. We don't call them gold star mothers anymore. We call them gold star families because it affects the entire family, mothers, fathers, sisters, sons and daughters when someone is killed in war or missing in action or a prisoner of war. And we're still receiving the remains of missing in action from France, from Vietnam, from Korea as many years later. And that's part of our mission as veterans is to never forget the missing in action and the prisoners of war. In fact, my chapter, my Vietnam-Venus America chapter is named after James Michael Ray, the only member, the only prisoner of war from my city. And we keep praying for him to be returned, but we know he probably never will. But his brothers, two brothers are all Vietnam veterans and they belong to my chapter. So it's nice to have their brothers as a presence there. Do you think if people would listen to God, then there'd be an end to war? Yeah, I do. But we're living in a canceled culture now where they're canceling out Christianity and anything that has to do with religion. And it's all going for political capitalism, communism. It's just very, very difficult. It's a very tough time right now. And in America, we're fighting, Christianity is really fighting to keep a voice, a loud voice. But in Europe, Christianity is pretty much dead. I don't know about the UK, but I know European Union, even Italy has become very socialist, very, you know, even the Vatican. The Vatican has become that one world, that one worldism. I'm trying to make that whole idea of losing everybody's identity, becoming blending into one, and that's just not going to work. We're too different. And I don't know what's going on with that philosophy. I don't know what you guys think about that. I think looking to the positive, which I think we must, there seems to be a beautiful awakening of a different kind. So not your strict religion that we were all brought up with that kind of didn't fit for us because we probably didn't really understand it. But I think particularly off the last couple of years, a lot of people seem to be listening to... I call it the universe, but many people will call it God. Getting rid of the noise, the endless noise of capitalism, of consumerism, of politics, of division, of race, all this stuff that distracts us from realising that we're supreme human beings. We're a manifestation of something so much bigger and so much so incredible. And my experience now is a lot of people are waking up to this and I think it's really positive. Is that what they call the great reset? I think it's the opposite of the great reset. I think the great reset is the kind of shenanigans of the globalists, is it not? Oh yeah, you're right. Anything that's got the word great on just is a red flag. Was it under Chairman Mao? They had the great leap forward and it's never going to be good. But no, I think it's funny enough, it's actually referred to as the great awakening. So perhaps that's another flag. But I think people are fed up with the nonsense now. They realise that human beings, we just love each other. The division is always created. This false enemy, as you found out, as I'm coming to find out that life's too short for all this hatred. And we can't put this on to our children. We can't, but I think the narrative now of these, I don't know what you call them, psychopathic, sociopathic. They use the word elites, but obviously it's not the most appropriate word. But I think it's coming to an end. People see through it. And once you've seen through it, you can't put the genie back into the lamp. It's out. The truth is out. And the truth will always reign supreme over fear, slavery and control. Have you ever heard of Charlie Ward? Yes, Charlie and I have been in contact. I've been watching a lot of his podcasts. Very, very good. Very interesting. He's very spiritual. Very spiritual man. I get what I've come to realise in my life is I listen to it all. And I think you have to listen to all the narratives out there to find which one is the truth. I would say the truth for you, but I don't think it's individual. I think the truth is the truth and it's good for all of us. I have been greatly led by a chap called John St. Julian. And I would encourage anybody to check out John's YouTube channel. Can you just, when we finish, send that to me in Messenger. The contact information. I would like to do that. Yeah, and I learn each week that goes past, Father. I learn more in that week than I did in my lifetime. And I love it. And as a parent, I feel it's my duty to rise above the mainstream media and not let that control my life and create the best life for my child that I possibly can. And I also think it's the definition of being a Marine. These are all the qualities that we stood out for that we believe that we were. And look, I stand by that. And I'm going to be honest, not. I don't see many of my colleagues doing the same. No. Particularly with respect to, if I just say, recent narratives. Yeah, I think people have a hard time understanding. Do you have the game Monopoly in the States? Yeah, you probably have your version because obviously in England or in the UK, it's London names. But when you play that at Christmas, most people just play it and they're having fun and they're having a drink and they're cracking open some walnuts or whatever it might be. And there's always one though that takes it so seriously.  I think we need to realise that that's a good metaphor for the planet or an analogy. It's that some people are of that nature. And unfortunately, they tend to get into what we would call power. Not the power that you and I believe in, which is a higher power, but they get into this phony, fake, low level human type of power. And we've got to see through it. You know, we've got to stop being led by the greedy guy that just wants to win the Monopoly. Right, right. And I just feel fortunate that I've kind of got to this place in my life and that I have some, you know, I have a relationship with Jesus, probably not the sort of orthodox one that most people do, but I just would always consider him a best friend and also the epitome of what being a hero is, you know, that being prepared to give your life for what is right. Right. And I have a beautiful relationship with the universe or God. I just know everything's always going to be all right and I'm so fortunate to have this experience of this life in what I call this set of molecules that people refer to as Chris. And I finally got to that place that I kind of always knew through my life. It was there, but I never felt like it was for me. I always felt that it was just not achievable for me. But by perseverance, Father, I've got there and it's wonderful. And I'd encourage everybody, everybody to do likewise. Are you involved with anybody you served with? Have you had reunions or anything like that? Yeah, we have. We've had several. I organize one every year. Good. It's healing. Yeah, that's for the Marine Corps in general. And we've had, I think it's two troop reunions now. So the troop I was in training with. And it's kind of interesting, you know, we all rock up. And I've stayed as handsome as I always was because I was probably, I think I was the most handsome guy in our troop unquestionably. And these guys are all really rough looking now, you know. So a bit of jealousy going on there. But no, it's incredible. You know, it's the, again, it's the work of a great power that's brought us all together. And we shared something special back then and we still share it now. Wonderful. Did you serve in other places besides Northern Ireland? And that was the only conflict that I saw. I underwent Arctic warfare training in the north of Norway, which was extremely cold for a naive 19 year old. It was, it was a lot to, I found it quite a lot. Other people take to it. Easier than I did. And I was very fortunate. I was on an aircraft carrier for a year. So I was on the Marines Detachment just, I think there was 12 or 14 of us. We sailed the world. We went to a wonderful nation called the United States, full of incredible people, beautiful people, kind, genuinely kind people. We met our USMC brothers in a place called Sigonella in Sicily. Oh yeah. And they took us under their wing and they just spoiled us incredibly. And yeah, that was an incredible year. We saw the pyramids, visited the old town in Istanbul. We sailed to Barbados one time, which was almost unbelievable. They were paying us for that. Wow, that's great. And I was going to ask you, did you know somebody by name of Mark Ormrod? Yes, Mark. We come from the same city. Yeah. We're friends on Facebook. He's a double amputee. Triple. Oh, triple. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. He's a courageous man. Yeah, he recently swam across, there's a channel. The English Channel? No, it's a channel in our city. And it's between the mainland and an island that we've got out in the bay. Oh, wow. Or out in the harbor, I should say.  And he swam that with just one arm, which is... Wow. She's incredible. Yeah, it is. And it's a good example to all of us that have suffered, whether it be trauma or physically that life goes on. Yeah. And we just have to make our peace for the past, move on from it and seize the day because it's a great place to be. One of the things that I wanted to mention to us, and I just touched upon at the beginning, was let me just take a sip here. It was an opportunity to go to the Tbilisi, Georgia. And it was a conference called Peaceful Caucasus. And the intent was, it was supposed to be a healing conference for the Georgian veterans who served in the Soviet military in the war in Afghanistan. And so it was veterans from Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, and from Russia attended this conference called Peaceful Caucasus. And I was able to give a talk about PTSD and spiritual healing. It was given in English and simultaneously translated into Georgian. And in the book that they published, because it had to be printed out, they published it in Georgian, English, and Russian. And it was just the Georgian people were just so wonderful. And I kept in touch with them for many years later. One of them was of general. One of them was a lieutenant colonel in the army. That was a Soviet army. But none of them were getting benefits. And it was a very sad situation because one of the problems that they were suffering from is they were serving under the Soviet army. So the Soviet Union didn't exist anymore. So Moscow had no obligation to pay any pensions or disability to those veterans who served under them. And so they were caught in a no-zone. And so many of them are homeless, street people. They've got disabilities that they can't afford to take care of. It's just very, very sad. But we've kept in touch over the years. They went back the following year and went to Azerbaijan and got interviewed on one of their radio programs in Baku about my work with the veterans and all that. And so it was kind of exciting to meet veterans from the former Soviet Union that we've come to really a respect. And they respect us very much. The Chechnyan was one from the Chechnya. He was an amputee above the waist. One leg. He had one leg. He came and boy, was he tough as nails. But it was interesting to meet with all these different people. Yeah. And we should, before we go, say a big thank you to Martin Webster for putting us in contact, Father. Absolutely. Martin's a great guy. Yeah. I like my chats with Martin. You live nearby in Cornwall? We live fairly close to each other. Oh, good. I was privileged to go to the premiere of his last movie. The Penitent? Yes. Oh, yeah. I haven't seen it yet. It's not over here. Yeah. Oh, you're in for a treat when you get hold of it. I'm sure Martin will send you a copy. Yeah. Spreading the word again about trauma. Yeah. Well, Father, it's been absolutely wonderful. Thank you. Yeah. I think it's good to keep these, you know, to record these stories for the future, not to let these voices get forgotten and the message as well. So I'll say goodbye to our friends at home. Massive love to you all. If you could please like and subscribe. And Father, yes, what can I say? Absolutely great to meet you and keep up the wonderful work. They will meet together. We'll meet in person. Yes. Yes. I'm going to be a bit wary because like Alan said, you might try and borrow that money off me.