This is the billed OGM call for Tuesday, September 14, 2021. And I found a fungus face image to signify the building of OGM kind of, you know, that's what it looks like down in the salt mines. Hey Mark Antoine. Hello. Bonjour. Vincent, as he said in the matter most, it's gonna show us some stuff that he's been building. And Pete, I apologize. Do you have any time later today to get together and do the insertion of Trove into the OGM website? Yes. We actually have our standing call today. Oh, that sounds great. We could even do that. We could even do that. That's awesome. Cool. Anyone wanna check in on relevant stuff? Upgrade your iOS and macOS devices, ASAP. Because of the security features and stuff? It's a zero-click exploit, which you're probably not a target, but you don't need to. Yeah, I don't need the extra risk. And it's also, laptop's also vulnerable, macOS? Yeah. Okay. And it's already upgraded, of course. Luckily I'm not an iPhone person, so don't do that. So I think I got my iPhone a week into iPhone availability. So I wasn't in the first lines, but a week later I went and got it. And then I had a speech in Paris to give. And so I took a flight and I nearly got to passport control off the flight and realized that my brand new iPhone was in the sleeve of the seat in front of me back on the airplane. And this was at Shelf the Gold, I think. And there's like streams of people, right?   And I was like... Wow. And then I took it to the meeting, gave the speech and then basically showed off the iPhone. And it was passed around like a holy object. It was really kind of cool. And that was the original iPhone that felt like a river stone. Like they've never gotten the feel like that again. They haven't been able to sort of like just go back to beautiful to touch. And so it's a fun story. Back in the end, of course, I don't remember if it worked. I don't think it worked in your like, I might have been able to get on GSN Networks, I don't remember. Don't remember if it actually acted as a phone while I was in Paris, that can't tell. Maybe it was just like a pretty stone. Yeah, pretty stone that lit up and had little chicklets, chicklet buttons on it. Anyway. So on the, just sort of before Vincent gets here, on the theme of build OGM, should I just launch weaving the web as a thing, as a podcast, just like makeshift and start now and record and then build as we go kind of thing? And I'm just torn on it. Because I think that that's, and what I'm tempted to do is to take the hour after the Wednesday generative commons calls or to replace the generative commons calls with this as a regular schedule and then do other sort of pop-ups around it. But I have a feeling that weaving the web is an external marker that will be useful. So does that make sense? Doesn't not make sense. Have a plan. Because everything is a plan. Yep. So what are you trying to accomplish with it and how will you make that happen? I'm trying to stand up the almost intentionally non-polished beginnings of multiple shows that run in parallel feeding the big fungus. And Stacey, our conversation about the big game and other sorts of things might be a parallel show. Jordan might have a show, I don't know. I mean, but I'd like to stand at the beginnings of it to start to flesh out what that is and how it works. So then ideally those two sentences would be written down somewhere per system. And then in a week or two or a month or two or whatever, here's how it's going. Talk to the people who ought to know about it, how to have input, things like that. That sounds great. Yes, Stacey? Can I add one more thing that might be parallel because we had that email, on that email chain, there was an interesting conversation. And actually Pete came in and he said with the different possibilities, it was about the IPay. And part of when I'm always thinking about this alternative place that also has a social component, it's I'm looking for where would I wanna go to learn? And it occurred to me that we should be thinking, where do we wanna hang out? And the reason I'm bringing that up is this idea of learning together. I would love a show, a call, where whatever question comes up, we actually learn together, like the example of that IP chain. And I have others in mind, but to that point, because I'm always thinking about education, I just wanna throw in that idea of, imagine if we had all these journalism students, and we also had all these, I mean, I know that on Facebook, I'm connected to so many brilliant academics, teachers, professors. Imagine if other really established people were guiding them and we were creating the stories to look for. Then it's like, we're doing something that we're socially driven to do, but we're also doing something that needs to be done. And you guys gotta connect the dots. I'm just throwing out all my thoughts. They all connect. I'm just not presenting it that way, because I don't have time. It reminds me of some of the calls that we have. There may be a little less structured than you're thinking, but we also do a lot of learning together. So FJB calls are like that. So Tilla calls are like that, actually. And I'm a big fan of reintegrating the Venn diagram. I have a little riff where I say that long ago, we used to learn, play, and work all at the same time. And as we got civilized, we separated those. And now we have a portion of your life where you learn and then you stop learning and then you go to work and you're not supposed to really learn except for the professional development section of where you're doing your job. Otherwise, you're just supposed to be hammering away at doing it seriously. And so if we can actually be playful while learning, while actually making a living and doing work, that would be really, really, really great. And if that can be of service to other communities and if the artifacts we're building are useful for education, for learning, then fantastic. And lather rinse, repeat, I think. Is there a reason why that's, sorry, I take that as a given. For me, that just sort of works. Is there a reason why that's not a good image or force to have in the background? Does that rub anybody wrong? What, the Venn diagram? Yeah, yeah, to have fun while we learn, while we do stuff that helps us make a living. I would just like the more directed approach. Like I would love to know that on Thursday, we're either going to explore this or we're going to explore this or we're gonna do both and then we could sign up for which one we wanna be a part of. And then maybe some actions will come out of it because maybe the question will be is, well, we need to look up and find out who is there in 1980 at this meeting and then maybe somebody could be assigned to do that. Makes sense. And all what that also means is just having an agenda for each of the events, each of the shows, each of the calls is going. And that's fun and totally doable. And that means to go on the project plan is what I'm thinking. Any other thoughts? I'm remand, you spoke of Venn diagram. I'm reminded of Dave Pollard. It's one of the, he has an interesting blog going at it forever called, How to Save the World. Most of it is actually quite doonist in some ways, but it's like what to do. And yeah, and he had one of those Venn diagrams about how to find your passion and finding your sweet spot and the intersection between, what is it, your passion, your genius and your purpose. Yeah. He's got a book, The Finding the Sweet Spot, The National Entrepreneur's Guide to Responsible Sustainable Joyful Work. Yeah, exactly. The 10 Fears of Entrepreneurship, right? Livelihood, I don't, I've not read the book, but I did read it in there some time ago. Ages ago. Oh well. Yeah. And I'm trying to find the diagram on his stuff, but yeah, it was. Oh, and he's also involved in the pattern language of group process effort. Ages ago, he's given up on a lot of that and it's like, you know what? We screwed, we're not doing that much. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, cause one of the things I'd like to do with Leaving the World is go approach the pattern language folks and find ways to make those more actively usable. Vincent, thanks for coming. Waiting for you to show up so we could dive into the stuff that you wanna show us, which would be fabulous. I love that you have a mind map on the whiteboard behind you. Seems very thematic. It got, how do I say? Butchered and it said trove and then someone wrote treasure trove. It said domain and then someone put love shaft domain and then it said legal and someone put illegal and there's a lot of other profanities on it that I won't say, but the mind map got, yeah, by my sister and my parents' friends actually got. They got mind map happy. Yeah, so I'm kind of leaving it cause it's funny. Yeah, that's great. And do you wanna dive in? Yeah, sure. So yeah, basically I wanted to just do a kind of quick update on trove kind of where it's at and then just kind of open up a little discussion about like in trove's current stage, what are the ways in which RGM could use it and get lots of benefit? What things are like, you know, six months down the road and just talking about, I think one of the things that we've done really well is kind of focus on some specific use cases and builds and started to make the UI a lot better. One of the things that we haven't done very well is like marketing or any sort of communication. So we haven't sent out like even like an email blast thing like, hey, these are the updates. So that's something that kind of just been doing like this just because it's changing so rapidly by the time someone reads the email blast kind of like out of date. But yeah, I guess I could jump in a screen share. Also found this cool feature on Chrome. You could add your own and also on Firefox too. You could add your own search engine. So if you type, I set it up so that it can type in trove and then like OGM, it'll actually use trove with a search engine and it'll search for OGM. Oh, interesting. It's called quick search engines. And it's pretty cool. You could like add it on your phone or on your browser. So I'm just gonna be OGM group. Cool. Now I added a few other directories to OGM. So basically for those of you who have not seen this site the main layout right now is these different tabs at the top are basically the all the different directories that you can add to your group. And there are more possible ones that are not here that in the settings you could go in and add. So I added the ones I thought would be relevant for OGM. There's also like a feed one, but I didn't add that because I feel like OGM doesn't need another list of comments and feed I think you can keep that into form and email and matter most. But so I will kind of maybe just yeah, go through some of the new ones. So the member directory is pretty self-explanatory. The thing that has been requested that I started working on in terms of the member directory has been to add more filters. So if OGM goes from having 25, 30 people to 150 people in the trove group, one thing that we might wanna do is add more filters. So it makes it easier for people to find people to collaborate with based off of things besides their skills and their location.  You can say like, you know, who's in open global minds or game B and you can filter by like topics like, oh, who's interested in collaboration of incidents. You can also filter by goals like people who are looking to like get help with projects, find funding, learn and share their work, get connected with resources. So this like ability to be able to add kind of your intentions like your current kind of intentions, what things your goals are, and then being able to find other people that either align or have kind of synergistic goals. And then also based off of certain locations or different like networks or groups. So like, you know, if I wanted to know who's interested in like design, activism. So these filters will also be kind of available in the OGM realm. But the other thing that's possible is to actually add like local tags. So OGM might want to have ways to filter a member directory by things like roles, right? Like stewards or core members or active members. And those things can be defined within the context of OGM. And then, you know, if you're in another group those filters and tags won't show up. So one of my questions was for a member directory if OGM was, you know, 200, 300, a thousand people what sort of filters would you want to have on the directory that are like specific to OGM? So that's one question. I don't know if we should write that down or talk about that now, but maybe we'll open up Google Doc. While I do that, does anyone have thoughts on that? At some point we were talking about different kinds of roles in OGM. We haven't really gone with that. We got stuck on like whether we have guilds or not and how that works. I still like the idea, but at this point I think that the more generic things like what skills are you after and goals are you have to work fine for where we are. Okay, cool. And I'll put the question in the chat as well. Anybody else have a thought on that? I mean, Pete, do you feel strongly one way or the other about this? There's a general thing where whatever the entity or philosophy called OGM is it needs to decide to use, well, it needs to develop some use cases for Trove and then actually perform those or execute those. What about you? I remember when I was pushing the lab definition of OGM and if we think of OGM as a lab where people experiment with both tools and approaches, that creates clear roles in the sense that there's somebody designing an experiment and there's somebody doing and reporting on an experiment, right? Maybe some coordination roles and so on. But I think these are very important. Like you want to, you're maintaining a tool or an approach and that's a role and you want to know about what goes well and what doesn't go well and those experiments that use that tool or you're doing one of those experiments with those tools or you're interested in experimenting with new tools that maybe, now these roles, like most roles are not hard in the sense that somebody can have many roles, many hats and change them. And I think that's important with any role system. But I think they do very much determine what kind of UX you're looking at at any given moment. Are you looking for reports on your experiment? Are you looking at new things to experiment with or are you looking to use the tool or give feedback on the tool? Thanks Mark Antoine. Howdy Mark. And some of the interested in categories overlap in what you were just saying Mark Antoine and I don't know how general purpose they are but I see what you're saying. Oh, and by the way, Judy's dotted on the map. I sent her an email, is Judy okay? Has anybody heard from Judy recently? Okay, I have not. So I'm gonna write her daughter and I have not heard back from Judy. So I'll write Blair's, I think I've got Blair's email so I'll check in. Any other thoughts for Vincent Donets? I haven't thought, I wish I could experiment with the trove and the search interface is not visible from the side, probably unless you log in and creating an account could be more obvious and so on or more automated. I think we have a private link for creating an account from the point of view of OGM. So Vincent created the URL that I can share in a sec that is the way to do it. And I don't know that we wanna put that on the naked website so that we avoid trolls basically just finding our site and building an account and suddenly being inside the database. Plus you. So I'm okay with having just a separate link that says, hey, go here and sign up for an accountant and all of us encouraging one another to do that. It's so strange to see the picture of Pete on the left in the screen share that looks almost identical to the image of Pete. The image of Pete live right now. It's like, oh my God, oh my God, there's a break in the matrix. Yeah, Mark and Fon, do you have an account if I could also invite you? There's also, if you are an admin, you can go to members and then you can click add new members and invite anyone by email. If you are already on here, I could, oh yes. Okay, you should be an OGM now. Can you invite me too? Yes. Thank you. Oh, I think Mark and Fon, you were invited. I just re-send it and Stacy, can you please? This is the link I have for getting into OGM. For getting into OGM, that link works. For getting into Trove as part of OGM. Sorry. Oh, interesting. So I just turned on the feature to let people apply to groups, to join groups that are not totally public but are like required some level of access. So two people applied for OGM. Do we want to accept Jonathan and Magnus? Don't know either of them, but sure, they wouldn't seem fine. That's funny. I could speak for Jonathan, he's cool. Cool. And I don't know, I don't know Magnus, but I think it would probably be cool to be able to go to their profile and see who they are if you don't actually know them. Yep. Stacy, if you wanna either put your email in the chat or follow that link Jerry sent, either one, that will get you an invite to Trove. And the other thing that I've been working on is making it easier for groups to embed specific pieces of Trove onto their website.  So this is like an iframe embed code that you can just copy for WordPress. And then I'm working on making it where you can also like select, okay, I want to show the project directory in the map view and then hit copy and then it'll embed that view in a website. So you can kind of have different pieces of the directory on your website and it'll be live and dynamically updating. So OGM could have, so like for example, this is the current events calendar. So on here is the build OGM calls which are restricted to people who are in OGM. And then like open goldmind Thursday call which is open for everyone. And then like the political Friday calls which are public. And so if you were to embed this on the website, it would hide the build OGM calls. It would only show the public calls. Can I ask quickly, when is the free juries brain call? And how do I add that to the calendar? So they're at 8 a.m. Mondays, but they're basically more private than these calls. So yeah, Vincent, how do they show up? They're not on the calendar right now. I could add them, but I also wasn't sure about like, yeah, if they probably would be restricted to people and would you want anyone? So these are the sort of questions that like someone who's creating the event needs to kind of make a decision on. And a lot of the times I haven't made decisions without kind of asking permission. And so like if the SJB calls are gonna be on the calendar, who should see it? Should it be anyone in OGM? Should it be private and only shared with specific people? You could like invite specific people or you could make it restricted to like OGM people lab like certain groups or it can be public. Yeah, and there's a couple of layers. Like the build OGM calls, I would love for them to be very visible to everybody so that they'd show up on the default calendar, but then basically knock to be invited or knock to be admitted to the calls kind of thing. As opposed to here's the zoom link, go crazy. And maybe the same for FJB, Pete, I don't know how you feel about the privacy of FJB and I know that there's sort of a conversation about we were more functional and we were tinier, but I don't know. I think that FJB is nice as it's going. Go ahead. Yeah, I wouldn't make FJB visible to even all the OGM members, which I don't know, it sounds a little weird, but so maybe there should be an FJB group too. I know it should be visible to FJB people, but... Yeah, there could be an FJB group. And the other thing is you could technically create an event and then just invite specific people if it's gonna be like invite only. Right. So sort of making a separate group or subgroup for FJB, we could just create a calendar event for FJB, make it invisible to all that the people specifically invited to it. And that would hold the function, right? Correct. Yeah. So it would be a private event and it would be shared with anyone who wants to share it. The other thing you could do technically is, so I asked about roles. So here's the sort of thing where if OGM had some like set roles, that would be like kind of set ways to like draw circles around like the group, you could then I could potentially start working on like, okay, I wanna make an event visible to anyone who is a steward of OGM. So it could be like fractal, but without those roles like reliably applied and like set up, then it's hard to kind of tell the computer what to do in that very specific context. This may be... Sorry, go ahead. Create a private event and then share Big Mark and other people. I was just gonna say, this may be a way down the road feature, but have you done any integrating with calendars, other like Google Calendar or Outlook or whatever, Google, I think being probably easier because I have a standing FJB call invite that has listed inside of it. All of the humans who are normally invited know about FJB and it would be fabulous. How there's calendars now have an integration where you can say make this a Zoom meeting, add this to Trove would be pretty fabulous. And I don't know, that may be very difficult, that may be actually pretty lightweight, I don't know. Yeah, that's something I would like to work on in the next few weeks. The thing that I just did this week, which is working really great. By the way, I'm gonna plug the press conference. So this is happening September 23rd for anyone who wants to present two or five minutes of a project that they're working on.  So this is kind of the new event page. So basically there's a video on instructions on how to RSVP here, I'm already going, but you can sign up and make a project right from the event page. And then there's Trove Data link to this event. So these are all the projects that they're presenting. And then shared links as well as resources and then an event agenda.  Well, can you show it to this page in a chat? Yep, thanks. I will. And I was saying you can then click add to calendar and you could add it to Google Outlook or download the iCal file. And then that will integrate with like basically any calendar software. So on the agenda this week is to make this happen for recurring meetings. So you can add like, you know, all the OGM meetings, like in a series to your calendar, it just in one shot. And then the next step after that is doing like a pretty, yeah, hardcore integration as you could say with like Google Calendar where you could sync what we're working on is where you could basically sync your, this is on the OGM calendar, by the way. I can't find the chat right now. Even when you stop screen sharing it'll pop up back up. I know it's always hard. You have to find your control bar, which I've mostly hidden. And then it's one of the chats hidden in there. Yeah, I promise I will send this in the chat and I'll send in MatterMos too. But I can't find it right now. But yeah, so let me go back to OGM. I think one of the questions I think Pete for you and me adding this to the OGM website is how many views into Tro do we wanna put on the website? Just the one for events or is there also a membership page that where we lean on Tro for membership list and then at some point is there a projects page and that's part of the conversation. Vincent, you and I were having and that I think is interesting as well. It's like how deep toward tasks. Certainly this is not task management but how far in that direction can Tro go? So for projects, so this is the projects tab that OGM has right now. So a lot of these projects were added by either. So here's the thing with, so Trove is more focused on a public facing project directory to help people to solve the problem of helping people see what's out there and not duplicate effort. It's more focused on that that it is on a internal project management tool. So there's a like a Venn diagram where those two overlap and Trove can handle kind of the use cases in the middle of the Venn diagram and the external facing ones but we haven't really made a project management tool. But if you manage your projects if you have a database of projects and it's linked to tasks in air table we'll have a way to sync your project database from air table to your face to the public facing. Like you could choose here are the 10 public projects as of our 20 projects. We wanna like click a button and then sync this to Trove. So using like the base sync feature in air table? No, actually we have a, currently in the last few like bugs are being tweaked basically it's a whole API connector that it's a plugin that you install into air table with a script. And then you basically put the field names like okay we have, this is our location field this is our description field this is our photo field. And then basically whenever you want to sync you just click run and it will go and it will add all those projects into the database and Trove and it will find ones that already exist and it will update those. Cool. Have you talked to Joe and Charlotte at Purigaji about being in here? Are they in? They have a group. They were going to bring me on to one of their podcasts to talk about Trove but I haven't heard back for them about scheduling. So they've set up and the cool thing is I think might even be a related group. You could still like link to their group and tag resources and projects with them. And so some of these projects were tagged by people. So like Eric's SenseWeavers, New Story for Humanity is a project that somebody added to the press conference and then recognized OGM and said, oh yeah, I want people in OGM to see this project. And so that's something that as admins of the Trove group like basically OGM would be able to decide like is this project actually OGM worthy or do we want to remove it from our list? Okay. So that's kind of how it works right now. Which is nice. It's sort of both directions. Like somebody can say, hey, we want to be visible to this community and the community can say not so much. Exactly, yeah. That's nice to see. So Stacey, go ahead. So if I click, if I were there and I click on Cult Jam, will it show me people that are active in that project? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if you click Cult Jam, it'll go to its own project page. Every project has its own page with its own URL. And then this project has basically links to things that have been tagged with this project. So opportunities and health needed, skills seeking, what it's open to, project members. So Lauren added this project. So then you could click, oh, okay. Who's Lauren? You could go to their profile and then, and then that's when you could like figure out and then in someone's profile, you can follow, connect them. You can find ways to contact them, see what groups they're in. You can also see their links. So Lauren added her email, her LinkedIn and her calendar. So if you were interested in reaching out from the project, you have already three ways to get in touch. And then you can see each profile has like links to the other directories that they're kind of involved in. So like these are the events that Lauren is hosting. If you want to like pop into a project event that's open. So we're kind of encouraging each project to have like an open house kind of event on the calendar. That way when you go to the project page, it'll be like, hey, here's an event that you could just come to to learn more about the project. And then you could see like one person's like specific projects and then also the like resources that they've curated. And the kind of next, the next set of features that we're working on is this like abilities to do matchmaking. So to say like, I think Lauren should connect with Alex. And I'm gonna slide the slider all the way up because I think they need to connect immediately. Oh, that's hilarious. And then I can CC myself and send a connection email which will have this in the body. I can customize this and then send an email. The slider bar is great. That's funny. Yeah. And this one's like, hey, you guys are in similar circles. The lowest one is like you guys connect. And then you can also say someone not on Trove and you could put someone email here. And then if they have the valid email and they're not on Trove, then it'll show the same thing and you can suggest the connection via email. Really nice. And that'll send them a link to go create an account and all that, I assume. It doesn't yet. Honestly, we're just trying to get people connected at the moment. We're still building, but I think focusing on the communities is the current focus. We're not trying to get like thousands of users. We're trying to get five to 10 like communities using Trove and collaborating because they're finding what's on each other's radar. So I would love like OGM and GRC and Game B and a lot of these groups to be a bit more aware of each other without having necessarily being in every single call. And I think having the OGM projects and the events, I mean, the events is like almost there. Like we have basically most of the events on the calendar as of this week. And so I think adding some more of like the OGM projects and I think it's gonna be really cool starting to see those connections. And then obviously events like the press conference where you can actually see a presentation of someone's project and then go into their project page and see what groups it's related to and then what the events are that that project is talking more about it. So. It's beautiful. I have a second call with Jim Rupp this week. And do you have many Game B people in Trove at this point or much on them? We have a group. I would love to talk to Jim because I've been very bullish because they just moved from Facebook to Mighty Networks a few months ago. And I know there was a lot of controversy over switching platforms. But I think Trove is at a point where probably it could be really useful and integrate with the Mighty Networks. Yeah. Kevin was saying at GMList, Mighty Networks is where healthy communities go to die according to him. Which is interesting. I'm not on any thriving Mighty Networks community, although I love their tool is pretty powerful. Mark Antoine? I am. They exist. Good. And it's working well for them? Yeah. I don't have much more to say. It's working. Yeah. Cool. Cool. So I have, I actually didn't show you guys the new stuff, but I will go over it very briefly. So we just added the opportunities data type. So an opportunity on Trove is any type of offer or request or thing that a person, a project or a group needs help with. So kind of calling it out like the wall of opportunity. So basically you can add an opportunity like, you know, looking for we're hiring or internship or free collaboration network fellowship, looking for a co-founder. Each opportunity has a date range where it's valid and it also has like contact and then you could link it to projects or groups. And so these are all the opportunities that people have added so far that are linked to OGM. So Vera from Great Works Alliance added a project and had OGM and then I added looking for alpha testers for Trove. And so you could go right to that project or the contact of the person involved or you can click take action and then you could either like suggest this to a friend. You could send an email to the person or you can favorite it from later. And this directory also has filters. You can filter by like skills that people need, the compensation type like volunteer, skill share, different audiences. And then you could add a new opportunity right from here. Working on making it easier to add like basically anything really easily. So it's like, I just have like a big plus button and you could say, I want to add an event project resource. But right now I just did the opportunity one. And so if you add this opportunity, it'll basically automatically kind of tag it with OGM and then you can also tag it with other groups as well. I'm not sure, yeah, what you guys think about using a sort of opportunity directory as a way to start to kind of advertise some of the smaller asks that OGM has or some of the sub projects have. But this could be a way to, for the things that you are looking for help with that are external and public facing as part of the project directory and kind of like task list. Those kind of things that you need help with that are big enough tasks to like, be on here for like a few weeks could be added as opportunities and then be broadcasted to the group surrounding OGM. So if we send out, like start sending out email blasts, we'll like kind of curate some like opportunities like jobs or people that are looking for help and then kind of share that out to the whole network. But you can click like, who you want the projects to also be the opportunities to basically be relevant for. Mark had his hand up earlier and then Mark on plan. Go ahead, Mark, you're muted though. Trying to lower the hand and unmute at the same time. Hi Vincent, I was logged into Catalyst and I'm attached to three groups, but they each are private. They have that open page privacy information. So it seems like I can't get into them. So I can't let me see. Float Tilla. Let me see it. Let me add you to, if you're not already in OGM, I will add you. I think I am, it comes up under my groups. Okay, and then what happens when you click to go to that group? Yes, it says you're here. Let's see, I have privacy information, open page. Don't go to the open page. The open page is the page that basically will be like embedded on the OGM website. So if you are in, if you're seeing the open page, then you're in the right place, you have to click the tabs on the top. All right, if I go to projects, I have, oh, so now it's working. Sorry, it was blank before and now projects are there. Thank you. That's awesome, cool. Marc-Antoine, you are muted. I was just a bit curious at the, I guess that's a political choice, but the terminology of opportunities, when those are really asks, right? You're asking for somebody to help you with something. If some of them were paid, but that's not a field, I just checked. Which would be, you know, but unless there's other forms of reciprocity. But the question is, is that something you want to measure the reciprocity flow or expectations? And I think under compensation, the pick list didn't include either, you know, cash or crypto currencies or anything like that, which might be both interesting. Or equity or, you know, whatever, right? It could be, or skills exchange or whatever, right? It's, there's all kinds of things. Those are not, it only shows the, so for filtering purposes, it's only showing filter where there's a result within this group. So if you go to create a opportunity, you can add commission, salary, hourly, volunteer, skillshare, collaborative exchange, other perks, equity, and this is like the, so this is the global opportunity board. So this has like hiring to see the different colors here. So it just so happens, the only two opportunities that have been added so far at OGM have been AFTS, but AFTS is only one subtype. So there's hiring, there's like, you know, free course on social network analysis, this is an offer. Then there's like, you know, post-growth entrepreneurship incubator is technically an opportunity. An opportunity on Trove is defined as any type of time-sensitive way for somebody to get involved with something, whether that's a learning experience, a work experience, a something like a fellowship could be an opportunity as long as it has a time period. And then it's something that's like time-sensitive. It's not like a resource. Or you could have a resource that's also an opportunity, but the opportunity will like have this, like it'll expire and then it'll be kind of recycled, hopefully in the next year for some things, like, you know, fellowships are the type of opportunity that are on like a cycle. And so we might want to like say like, okay, what are all the opportunities from last year? And let's go see if we can go update the date and make it like updated again. So instead of doing all this work of like constantly looking for opportunities, you just have a way to be able to like figure out, okay, what are the things that like were happening last year that were probably happening again now? The hiring is a type and also I added like, even I added some like hiring boards that had like, like when there's cases where it's not necessary to like copy and paste data from somewhere else, I'm just linking to information on a different site. So for example, this is like a job board for Denizen, which is a really cool clubhouse group. And so this is almost like a list of opportunities that I'm just like, here's a really cool list of opportunities I found.  So instead of, you know, and if they wanted to integrate with Trove, I could actually put these jobs on there, but right now I'm just linking to the list. Okay, sorry, I missed that one. And the other thing is, how easy is it to create a group? I see I can create a project, but I don't know how to create a group. Creating a group is quite self-explanatory.  Oh yeah, I missed that one. It might be a little grayed out, but I saw no problem. But yeah, basically you just add like a name summary and then you just walk through the steps to set it up. Okay, yeah, it was grayed out then, yep. But it's also, I'm learning the interface. Sorry about that. No, no problem. And actually in an hour we have a talk with a UI designer who's gonna probably help us with the whole UI overhaul, but getting the kind of functionality right. So totally different type of question. I know you've been working a lot of interop and flotilla, how is this exposed as JSON-LD or some other such format? Yeah, so we have an API. Right now the API is being used to think like things from air table. So basically like the air table database has a certain schema. And if that schema overlaps with the kind of fields that are in the schema of the API, then it's basically gonna like send that information over when you sync. So yeah, we have an API. If there's something that you, an integration you wanted to do, haven't like documented the API super, super well. Just, I mean, it's kind of, I can give you the link so you can just hit it and see what fields there are and see the schema, but have not yet documented it really well because this is only the first time that actually are like using the API to interact with it. But it does have a public API, which also comes with the privacy permission. So like, if certain projects are private, then you could make it so that the API can only hit the public one and stuff like that. And in terms of interoperability, there's some cool experiments that we're working on. So this is one example. So I added this thing called source. So the source is basically choosing where is this information stored? So right now this is showing all the links that are in the Trove database that are OGM links. So I can add a new link here and I can add, I don't know, GT, what's a website that OGM, besides the OGM homepage, I can add Flotilla. So if I add Flotilla, project.x5z, and I can say like the Flotilla site, I make this public. Now let's add it into the Trove database. Now if I click events, this is actually looking for all of the events that OGM hosts where there were links posted into the Zoom chat of those events and those links were uploaded onto Trove. So this is a way to basically in the future filter all of the links that have been added into like any Zoom chat of any OGM event in kind of one place. And so this catabot, this is actually pulling data from air table. So this is pulling from a different API. The data actually isn't in the Trove database. It's like while it's loading right now, it's basically hitting air table and it's finding all of the air table links that basically came from the Mattermost chat bot. So the Mattermost chat bot, which is called catabot, basically will listen for links. And as soon as a link is posted, if it's in a group that bot is in, it will tag it with the group and it will tag it with like topics if there's hashtags and then you're able to basically filter and search all the links. So let me go to a group where there's actually lots of links. This is a telegram chat where the bot has collected like 80 links. And so you can filter by like local tags by the domain. So if you wanted to like see like all the YouTube videos that have been shared, or if you connect it to your profile, you can also filter by basically like, what were all the links I shared or the links Charles shared? And basically I could add as many sources technically. It would get a little bit more complex because each source technically has different schemas. But if we wanted to do an integration with another site that OGM was using for collecting information, one of the other like ways to filter is by where is this data? So I also have something in projects where it's basically showing you, these are all the projects that have been uploaded to Trove. But some people don't have their projects in Trove, they have them in a separate database. So this is an experimental page where I have this source. So you can say like Trove data or Sync. And if you say Sync, then it's going to go to the database. So this is actually another air table. It's going to that air table and then finding all the projects in it. And this is an air table that's synced with five other air tables. So it's like, this is like three other project groups that are in air table that wanted to be on Trove without having to actually use the Trove UI at all. And you're able to filter the projects and find what you're looking for here as well. Vincent, I didn't realize you'd gone down to pulling in and to having bots and pulling in links from other conversations and all that, which gives me an idea that may be, maybe not the direction you want to head, but it could actually be really interesting, which is maybe there's a Trove fire hose, which is an RSS feed out or some other, or you're posting directly into Factor or directly into Pintra, whatever. But you're basically harvesting all of the interesting stuff that's happening on all the communities that are willing to share information that live in Trove. And Trove then becomes kind of the umbrella when you could obviously have filters to reduce it or make it bigger, maybe, but maybe it's just a fire hose. It's like, and it acts as an early warning system for interesting stuff through these communities, right? And the community that Trove is host to winds up becoming a thing. As opposed to this is the white pages or the yellow, I mean, sort of the yellow pages where like any old company shows up in the yellow pages, you know, you're sort of curating who's on the platform also. Yeah, so that's, so if I were to give you guys the full pitch, yeah, Trove in like is kind of partially an aggregator of, yeah, of those different streams, but we're trying to make it where it's aggregating the streams, it's kind of something that's sitting at the edge of multiple streams and then taking that information and putting it into a garden where it can later be tagged and added to and connected to other groups. And so the, for example, like there's like three or four different ways to input data into Trove. Like you can add it, right?  That's one way. Another way is like, I'm in an event that's on Trove. I put some links in the chat and now we're going to upload that chat file to Trove and then all those links automatically go into the library under that event. And then also because it's in a group, all those links become available for everyone in the group, even if they missed the meeting. And then there's the kind of more curated aspect. And so links is kind of a fire hose. And I intentionally have a different database for what could otherwise be like two, the same thing, but they're separate. So links is like just URLs. There's not much other data attached. There's like a few fields, but resources is like the like highly curated version of this where you could take a link and turn it into a resource, but then it has like required fields that you have to fill out. And so this is a link. This is basically they, you know, most of these have images. Most of them are in tag with multiple groups. Most of them have like topics or types. So, you know, for example, this is like an article I found about information architecture. And this, unlike a link, a resource has its own page, kind of like a wiki. And it'll say who curated it. And then anyone could go in and edit it if it's public. And it's saying this is an article. It's related to systems design and information architecture. You can comment on this. And then if you click a tag and there's like a resource, like a topic available for that tag, this gets into the kind of knowledge network aspect where then you could see all of the resources related to this topic or all the events or all the groups. This is a new topic, so there's not much attached to it. But basically how this works is like, if you're on a website and you click catamark, which is the bookmarking tool, it will add it as a resource. So this is like the more highly curated way to like input information into Trove. You can basically add a description, like this is a cool AI writing platform. You can say it's a resource and it's a tool and a writing tool if that's not there yet. So I just added it as a new type and I could say it's related to software. We're not seeing what you're sharing right now for some reason. Oh, it's a pop-up. Whatever you're typing in. Oh, okay. It's just an invisible. Let's see, I don't worry about it. Yeah, don't worry about it. You know what? I know how to fix this, let's see. So this is the, I just bookmarked this website and now there is a resource page on Trove and I can edit it and this will show you guys what I was doing. So basically I was tagging, I was just tagging it with categories. So like types, topics, I'm just gonna do AI and then I can share it. Like if I think this is interesting for like, for OGM, I can share it with OGM. I can share it with any other groups. Yeah. I can tag people. From the flotilla calls, how much overlap is this with what Factor is doing and how to use Factor or could you go back and forth sort of using Factor to feed this and then from here sort of back to feed Factor. So we have a project called Project Planbake which is actually about the intersection of Factor, Trove and Wendy McQueen's Everyone's Wisdom and so we're doing some experiments and we have a RSS feed already for when you add a resource it actually sending it to a Factor stream. So there's the ability that when you catalog something it also gets sent automatically to other places including to RSS. The difference between this and Factor is, so Factor is kind of, it's more interoperable with the links because in the Factor schema like when you bookmark something it will have everything that a link has. So it'll have an image, it'll have a title, a description, it'll have topics and then it'll be like in a stream which is kind of saying like this was in a group or this was came from and if you hover over it it'll say this was posted on September 22nd into MatterMode or this was posted into the Telegram. Resources is kind of like way more complicated. Like it has audiences, you can connect this to a project. So yeah, I could connect this to any piece of data on Trove, I can connect it to an event, a project, I can connect it to other resources. So resources are like kind of links on steroids. So there's more interoperability with the kind of like links aspect than resources in terms of Factor. Like I wouldn't have built this if it wasn't, yeah, right now like doing this level of tagging is not possible on Factor and I don't think Michael intends to build like a similar type of search end into my knowledge but the reason why we're doing this is to be able to say show me all the resources about education that have been posted into OGM and here they are or like show me all the resources that were curated by Jerry or by Pete or by like certain audiences. Like I can like show me like the tools for writers or about self-help and there's everyone's wisdom and then also you can change the view or the source. So this is actually a list of OGM resources that are in an air table database that I collected like a year ago and so I'm showing those here too. Yeah, so, but this tool is collaborative so anyone can add this tool as a browser extension also works on mobile. It's a bookmark that Pete helped me figure out how to get this to work.  So it works on like any device is really cool. That's awesome. You have done so much work Vincent on this. It's like amazing.  So, well done. Thank you. Yeah, it's a lot. And the last thing I'll show just because it's also a lot is the call repository. I did the same thing where you can actually change the data source. So these are all the calls that have been added onto Trove and that have a YouTube video or a transcript. And so you can already kind of filter through these like the topics that were discussed like, you know or the you can search through the transcript. If a transcript was uploaded and there's different ways to view the different calls and filter them down. But basically we also have this database of like all the past calls. And so if we wanted, we could add this as a data source and I can show you a group where they have two sources for calls. So like if you don't want to upload all the past OGM calls into Trove, you could just leave them where they are and then let people find them in kind of one place along the future calls too. So that's the other piece is like, there is a process that I think is getting better and better for like from now moving forward for future calls to make it much easier for people to find like the relevant snippets and the relevant calls and the relevant projects. If it's kind of done through the event system on Trove and so that's something that I think though it's gonna need a bit of touching up in terms of the interface obviously. And so until then it's still very, very useful for anyone who wants to kind of, I would yeah kind of be taken along, I guess you could say. It's cool. Very cool. We've gone over the hour. Anybody else have questions? Suggestions? Tons, but no, they're very impressive. This is doing much more than I expected at this point. Very, just a question on the September call. Is the agenda final at this point? For the press conference. Let me stop screen sharing so I can send that link. I hid the bar. Does anyone know the short key of making the bar pop up? The unshare? Yes. I go up to your menu bar maybe and it should show up there. I'm on PC and for some reason it's not. Oh, PCs have menu bars on apps. Maybe in the down right. So I click that I open zoom and it's showing like the zoom interface, but not the meeting. I think on PCs you just have to say Bill Gates name and you get a blue screen of death and that'll take you right out. I got it. Okay. Return to meeting button, which is orange. Okay, so Mark Antoine to answer your question.  And so how it works is, let me get the link for you. Is if you go to the event page and you click RCP, you put if you want to present for two minutes or five minutes, and then you put a category, then we will basically be sending out emails saying exactly what time you'll be presenting. And it'll also show up on the event page with a time slot. And it'll also show up on the event page where people can see like when you're presenting as well. So let me send that link again, like speed dating for organizations. Exactly. Without the back and forth. Good question, hopefully. Basically, I know you're using air table for the data storage. What are you using for the UI again? I'm not using air table for the data storage. I'm only using air table in the case where people have external databases that they want to import into Trove through air table. Using a bubble.io for the site. So I just put the link to and there's the link to the conference. Cool. And how, what other help do you need besides alpha testing? Great question. The main thing is, so from a development standpoint, we have like a kind of list of like project, many projects, the probably most important mini project is events syncing with Google calendar. So being able to, there's like 10 different ways to do it. And I definitely need help figuring out what is the most like reliable, sustainable best way to do it. But making a way where you could basically have a sync between all the events on Trove automatically show up on your calendar when you want them and not when you don't want them. So that's the, that's like a project that we need to help with. And then, you know, why I'm here presenting this today is also kind of need definitely some ambassadors like people who are in groups and communities that are willing to help me and, you know, basically be able to walk people through, walk people over the like, you know, still dirt road right now. Like it's clear what to do, but it's still a dirt road. It's not super paved. You can't go a hundred miles an hour down it yet. While we're working on the UI and making it even better, there's still a lot of value to using Trove. And like, I think just having some people that are willing to kind of spend some time to get familiar enough with it that can, they can at least be able to answer for it besides just me is like really, really helpful within OGM. So if other people ask, hey, where's our member directory? Like, like I should be the only one that knows the link or how to get there. So the part about like UI tester, that's kind of like the gateway into like, well, if you have done testing on the UI, you've probably got familiar enough with it to then start to help with other things. So for example, if I'm an active participant in the Buckminster Fuller Institute and they have basically their own project, some membership things, basically learning Trove well enough to basically say, hey, here is Trove. Let's see if you want to kind of integrate with this in some way. That kind of. Yeah, exactly. And Buckminster Fuller Institute is a perfect example of why we're building so much of the air table. They already have a project database in air table. So if they are on board, it'll literally be like, press button and they could, they could sync all of their projects with Trove without actually leaving air table. So I hope me explaining the air table integrations, is it too confusing? Cause it, yeah, it might be a bit, but yeah. And I, as a programmer, I understand. So we can do an architecture diagram at some point. Yeah. I think that might be another good place where Trove could use, use help. I kind of answer your question mark. Vincent says some really interesting things on this call. You know, this is, this is the sweep spot of use cases for Trove was one of those. Or, you know, this is how, this is how this subsystem works or something like that, or architecture diagrams, things like that. And that kind of stuff, kind of like a, you know, one level up from user manual and maybe a level down from developer guide or something would be super, super useful. That's one of the things I was trying to suggest is in your about page, just a paragraph about the tools used to build it. Yeah, that would be helpful. Yeah, one of the, the kind of documentation. So far, so far, the documentation has kind of been like, as requested, because there's so much to document. And part of it is building as we're flying that I'm documenting whatever people are asking for. So like, Mark, you want a better description on the about page? Like, now I have at least one person that wants it. That I will prioritize it, right? So in terms of like, flow diagrams and stuff like, Pete, maybe we could talk more about like, like, I don't know, I have like literally hundreds of diagrams. I don't know which ones are useful for who. And so like, knowing like what type of diagrams would be most helpful in what format that would be most understood would also be really helpful to like to focus on those. Like I have, this is the basically this diagram is the link and event. This is just like the link ecology. So this has like a group has an event. It's hosted on zoom. The chat file goes through link chainsaw. Then it goes through. It makes a list of links goes through the metadata parser, adds it to the trove database with tags that is displayed on the event group page. And then later is also goes to like the group. And so like that's like one flow and there's like 20 different ways that like a link could get into the link database. So all this stuff is super like complex. I'm like, who wants to see this? I don't know. I was thinking of something a bit higher level myself. I don't know if that's what Mark wants, but here are the systems we're exchanging data with. And here are the flows, you know, unidirectional by directional that high level thing, I think would be very useful. And it shouldn't be that. I don't know how many systems you're exchanging data with now, but it should not be such a big or complex diagram. And maybe some of the big internal like between air table and use you sometimes said the trove database as opposed to the air table database. I don't know if I'm got that wrong, but if there's two separate databases, explain the flows between those two, that kind of stuff. Yes. I was going to ask about swagger. Good ask Mark. You say you have an API. Is there swagger doc? I'll be honest. I don't know what's the difference between the swagger doc and the doc is, but we have. Let me send you the link. And side question is, I don't know. I'm interrupting Mark. Maybe you had more questions. Oh, um, basically I'm just typing them into the chat to not interrupt. But basically, um, in GitHub and get lab and different kinds of platforms. There are different kinds of charting tables, ways of creating, um, different types of tables and arrows and, uh, that's something that I don't know a standard of.  But, uh, that's something I have done a lot of in many different, um, places, but don't know of a, let's say best way of sharing those around. Um, so that, so basically anybody can draw a picture, but I want to draw a picture that other people can contribute to.  Um, but if anybody knows that or has some kind of, um, way of shareable diagramming, um, please let me know. Uh, I'm not, I'm not sure I pressed all of that, but, um, a really good, uh, diagram tool is, uh, diagrams.net. It's a little bit like using this, uh, on a regular basis. And I don't know if it's like a physio or Omni-Graphyl, but it's, it's multiplayer. Um, and it's free and friendly and, um, and one of the coolest things about it is that it, um, It'll write an XML version of the diagram into the PNG export. In terms of schemas. I think there are some ways to. the general bubble API, each app has its own API. So it'll be like, I could send you one of the API, like actual links that has the unique URL. And then with that, you'll be able to get all the public data from there. But yeah, basically it's a, and I have to run in a few minutes. Yeah, we'll probably all do. Yeah, me too, I was just saying that in the chat. So here's an example of the Mark Antoine, the link for the resources API. This is on the test database. So if you delete everything, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Results, okay, that's interesting. Cool, I'm gonna bounce, but feel free to keep going until you're done. Thank you. No, I think it's just thanks. Yeah, thanks, thanks everyone. I mean, I think kind of probably went a bit broader than deep into the discussion today, but I think it was good to give an overview of kind of what's happening. So I appreciate it, and yeah. Really impressed with all the things that you've been able to do. Fantastic. Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Probably have to continue, yeah, to be continued. And I'll see you guys hopefully Thursday and maybe at the press conference, if you wanna share any of your projects. I have to run, but I will see you guys soon. Ciao. Ciao, Ben, do you wanna stand for a half a second? I stand for a half a second. I'm a UI developer at the Internet Archive. I'd be happy to listen into the UI talk, but I'm also happy to not listen in at the same time. Okay, great. I'm meeting someone new, but we still need to catch up, Mark. I think, yeah, the last time after we linked up my schedule was crazy, so we'll find a time soon. I need to link up with Peter and Mark. I tried before and failed. And Stacey, you've been amazingly quiet. I would also like to talk, but Pete, I will talk to you and Jerry about joining the free Jerry's brand. And thanks again, Vince. Thanks, that's good. Take care. Bye.


Okay. Okay, let's read this verse. Hosea chapter 10 and verse 12. Okay. Hosea chapter 10 and verse 12. I think the same thing is in Jeremiah also. Jeremiah 4 and verse 3. Yeah. Okay. So let's read from Hosea 10 verse 12. Okay. So it says, So for yourself righteousness reap in mercy. Okay. Break up your fellow ground for it is time to seek the Lord. Pilly comes and reigns righteousness on you. Okay. Let's just read that again. So for yourself, so for yourself righteousness reap in mercy. Break up your fellow ground for it is time to seek the Lord till he comes and reigns righteousness on you. Okay. So yeah. So here the exhortation is to sow, to reap and obviously the whole picture is that of farming agriculture. There's an instruction. There is a command there. It says break up your fellow ground. Okay. So what is fellow ground? Okay. Any idea? Fellow ground. Okay. Dry ground. Sorry. Parched ground. Okay. Okay. So fellow ground is land that is, that could be productive. You know, that has potential but for some reason it is not, it has not been used. Okay. So it could be, you know, you can use it for agriculture.  And sometimes people do that, you know, people just so that it retains its whatever richness and so on and then they plow it again.  Right. So the thing is, so whatever, of course it's talking about the condition of our lives, condition of our heart and saying, you know, just break it up. Now whatever is, in other words saying, prepare yourselves but break up meaning, you know, that land, if you need to sow it, you need to break it up. You know, it needs to be, in other words, it needs to be plowed. Maybe it needs to be whatever is hard and everything needs to be plowed. It needs to be soft and pliable in order for the seed to be sown. Right. So here, the Prophet is saying, break up your fellow ground. So the question is, you know, what is my fellow ground? What is it that, that is in my life? You know, that could be productive, that has the potential. You know, if you look at the fellow ground, it has so much potential on the inside. But it's not been used. It's just lying waste. So the exhortation and encouragement is, you know, break it up, break up your fellow ground. What is it that's lying waste? What is it that's not allowing the Word of God to work, right, so that it can produce? What is it that's hardened maybe, that is hardened and unused? So it can happen to the best of us. You know, maybe it was, you know, certain areas where we were strong, where we were productive, what we used to do. And I'm talking about, you know, when it comes to our walk of faith, where we used to, you know, maybe in terms of prayer, in terms of worship, in terms of studying the Word of God, in terms of witnessing, whatever.  It just comes to us, right, certain times, maybe we look at some old photos, or maybe we look at some, you know, and then I realize, oh, certain things remind us. Okay, so here's another reminder, now break up your phallogram, what is it? So it says, for it is time to seek the Lord till He comes. Okay, for it is time to seek the Lord till He comes and reigns righteousness on you. So it can be thriving again, it can be flourishing again, whatever it is that, you know, that we might label as the phallogram, but for the thing is not to leave it like that, but to go back to seek the Lord till He comes and reigns righteousness, right? So let's, let's just pray, let's ask the Lord to show us, but what is it that needs changing? What is it that needs plowing? What is it that needs preparation in my heart, in my life, so that your word can be sown, so that you can reign righteousness on it, Lord, and the whole area, that whole aspect of my life can be flourishing and thriving again, right? Father God, we just come before you and Holy Spirit, I pray that you would speak to us, that you would prompt and you would highlight, Lord, that thing, that aspect, that area of our lives that needs to be broken up, that needs to be prepared to receive your word, to receive the reign of righteousness, so that things that are there might become productive again, Lord. We thank you, Father God, because you give us, Lord, yet another opportunity, yet another chance to do this. We thank you for this exhortation and yeah, we, we come us, we come and Lord, we, we yield ourselves, Lord, surrender into your mighty hands, even as we give you all praise and glory today, in Jesus' name we pray. Amen, amen. Okay, welcome everyone who joined us a little late as well, right? Okay, let me just share the notes. So we're going to look at one important aspect, which is the ministry of the Word of God. Okay, so we're looking at the person where we were studying about how, you know, how one needs to, I mean, what could be the qualifications, right? What could be the qualifications? What could be the, establishing the call of the person who's called to be the spokesperson, who's called to communicate the gospel. So we looked at all that different aspects of it and we had some good discussions on it. So today we're just going to look at the content, right? What is it that I'm called to communicate that I'm called to share? Okay, so, so I just want to ask us, okay, so where in the Bible do we see this idea or the scripture? No, do your best and leave the rest to God. Which verse is that we find in the Old Testament, New Testament? Any idea? The second one is God helps those who help themselves, help themselves. Online students also. Do your best and leave the rest to God. Okay, so Adam says these are all inspirational quotes said by pastors and Instagram influencers. Yeah.  See, the thing is, okay, it's not in scripture says Nina, John. What about time and tide wait for no man? Or make hay while the sun shines. See, these are, yeah, these are not in scripture. But see, some of these, we can't say that, we can't say the wisdom in these thoughts, I mean, wisdom in these sayings is totally unscriptural, right? We can't say that. But if you're going to preach as doctrine and say, you know, thus says the Lord, you know, this, as we find in the Bible, and we say certain things, you know, it's there somewhere. And then we, you know, we bring out these kind of statements. It can be damaging, right? It can be damaging. The idea is idea that we kind of teach, right, and establish in people's lives can be, because the thing is this, you know, when, because of our, because of the revelation or whatever the teaching is, there is conviction, okay? Now, we know that the Holy Spirit will not testify to that, right? Just if there won't be any deep witness conviction in people's hearts, but then if people receive it and want to live by it, right? You won't say, okay, it's not like it won't be productive, but it is not fruitful the way God wants their lives to be fruitful, right? So there is wisdom in the principles and, you know, that we see as good principles, you can live a good life. But, you know, what is it that really the Holy Spirit is highlighting? What is it that God wants right? So the content of what we share has to be the word of God. I mean, that's simple, but when you, you know, look at these kind of examples, and when we listen to certain things that are being preached and, you know, taught, then we realize, hey, the reference point, if it's not really the word of God, then what is the point of it all? Right?  It has to be the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, right? So it can be nice things. It can be nice stories. It can be, you know, sometimes it can be a wonderful, heartwarming, inspirational, motivating story, but it need not be related to any Ruthen scripture, okay? So we know that the word of God has power, okay? So the word of God is powerful, is alive, is creative, has authority, right? Right from Genesis, we see that God spoke and things came into being. So which means that the word of God is creative, it's powerful, brought things into existence, which were not previously there in existence, right? So that's how powerful God's word is. So we have the privilege of handling the word of God, of being spokespersons or mouthpieces for the word of God, okay? So this is what the Lord says in Jeremiah, right? Let's turn to the book of Jeremiah, chapter one.   Do not be afraid of their faces, for I am with you to deliver you, says the Lord. Then the Lord put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me, behold, I have put my words in your mouth, okay?  So the Lord fills Jeremiah with His words, and He says, before I've set you up, and you will go where I send you, you will speak the words that I command you, and this is something supernatural He does. He says, behold, why my words are in your mouth? So He says to root out, to pull down, He's talking about kingdoms, to destroy, to throw down, to build and to plant, okay? So the power, the authority, and the backing that comes when a person is commissioned by God, when a person is commanded to speak the words of God, or use the words of God, okay? So also to each one of us, because we are called to be spokespersons of God, okay? Let's look at, okay, 1 Peter, okay, 1 Peter chapter 4 and verse 11, okay? If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things, God may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. So if anyone speaks, if anyone ministers, it is in the power of God.  In other words, it's like a person who allows the word to be spoken through, one who's an oracle. Actually, the typical meaning of an oracle is someone who actually, you know, is like, I would say, you know, in the, let's say, when it comes to powers of darkness, someone who allows the spirits to speak through, that's the oracle. Here, let him speak as the oracle of God, because the church is the dwelling place of God, of the Spirit of God. We are the temples of the Holy Spirit. So let him who speaks, speak as the oracles of God. So if we need to speak as the oracles of God, then we need to have the Word of God, have a rich deficit of the Word of God, and speak as led by the Spirit of God and focus on the Word. So what does that mean? Does that mean that I just use chapter and verse, chapter and verse, chapter and verse fully, you know, just quote scriptures verbatim, not necessarily. But whatever we speak has a reference point in scripture. It is based on this, whatever we are sharing, whatever we are teaching should be based on the Word of God. Okay, so let's look at, I just want to share a little bit about the Word of God and from the public, from our book, I'm sorry, where is that? Just one second. From the publication, God's Word, the Miracle Seed, right? So let's look at that. Just once, let me just share that screen. Okay, there it is. God's Word, the Miracle Seed. Okay, so the Lord teaches about His Word, about His Word bearing fruit, about His Word being like the seed, which is sown. Okay, and He shares that very clearly in the parable of the sower and we parable of the sower, we see in Mark chapter 4, we see in Luke chapter 8, and also in, what happened? So and also we see in Matthew chapter 13. Okay, so let's look at Mark chapter 4, maybe we'll just read through those scriptures. Okay, Mark chapter 4. And again, He began to teach by the sea and a great multitude was gathered to Him so that He got into a boat and sat in it on the sea and the whole multitude was on the land facing the sea. Then He taught them many things by parables and said to them in His teaching, listen, behold, a sower went out to sow and it happened as He sowed that some seed fell by the wayside and the birds of the air came and devoured it. Some fell on stony ground where it did not have much earth and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth but when the sun was up it was scorched and because it had no root it withered away. And some seed fell among thorns and the thorns grew up and choked it and it yielded no crop. But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced some 34, some 60 and some 100. And He said to them, He who has ears to hear, let Him hear. But even He was alone, those around Him with the 12 asked Him about the parable and He said to them, Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word and these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who when they hear the word immediately receive it with gladness and when they have no root in themselves and so endure only for a time afterward when tribulation or persecution arises for the words sake immediately they stumble. And now these are the ones sown among thorns, these are the ones who hear the word and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things entering in choked the word and it becomes unfruitful. But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word accept it and bear fruit some 34, some 60 and some 100. So the parable of the sower very clearly explaining what the word of God does, the power of God's word, the responsibility of the sower and the responsibility of the person who is receiving the word as well. So God's word is like seed and it says that our heart is the ground where the word is sown and it must be nurtured, it must be protected. If you look at it, Satan comes to steal the word. So Satan knows the value of God's word. So it is stolen when I don't understand it or when I don't put in any effort to really understand it. If I'm casual about it, if I don't engage with the word of God, if I don't make any attempt to receive it, then it is stolen. So Satan comes, steals the word. Matthew chapter 13 actually talks about that, about understanding. When we don't understand it, the word is stolen away. So one thing that we see here is that the word of God is so precious, is so much of value that Satan comes to steal it. So Satan knows the value of God's word sown in a believer's heart that it will produce faith, that it will give authority and it will bear fruit, it will be bearing fruit. The person's life will be productive and therefore it is against all that Satan and the kingdom of darkness stands for. It will be a dismantling of lies, it will be an opening of prison. Whatever the person is, maybe in kind of a self-made prison or in some kind of deception, the word of God will just unlock that. This Sunday I was having a conversation with a person and this person was saying that right from after becoming a believer, soon after that she had this dream, nightmare and in the nightmare somebody was chasing her to, somebody whom she knew who had died, was chasing her to kill her. So she said from that time, whenever she was alone, whenever she would sleep alone, always this kind of nightmare will come, where somebody is chasing the killer and she realized that, I knew the name of Jesus but then it was like using it without any authority. So she would say in Jesus' name and that character which was chasing her will say, you know Jesus, I also know Jesus. And then ultimately, so she was strawmended by this nightmare. Every time she was alone, she would sleep alone. So she would go to great lengths to make sure that she was not alone when she was sleeping. Now this is after getting married and so on and then, so husband would travel on work, she would make sure that somebody is there, some relative is there etc. So then she was saying that she was growing in authority, she was reading the word, she was renewing her mind with the word of God. Then suddenly she realized that on a recent travel, the husband had gone and then from the place where he was, she called and asked, hey, how are you managing? She realized that she was actually set free and she was not commented anymore. So she said, there's so much authority in the word of God and how we grow in authority when we renew our mind with the word of God. So it's just that the deliverance came as a result of renewing the mind with the word of God. It was what you would say encounter with truth. She was delivered. I've heard this statement that discipleship leads to deliverance.  It always need not be a power encounter. It can be a truth encounter. It is a truth encounter anyway. So Satan knows that if this God's word can be stolen, if the revelation can be stolen, if it is not nurtured in our hearts and in some way, if it is compromised, short-circuited, then it will not be productive. This person's life will not carry authority, will not be fruitful. So therefore Satan comes. So the question is, do I understand the value of God's word? Then we also see that, well, there's persecution that comes because of, the scripture says, for the sake of the word. Persecution comes to the sake of the word, which means that it resists the word of God in order to make sure that we don't hold on to the word of God, persecution. So when you understand, where is it coming from? Who's the source of that persecution? If it is to take the word out of my life so that my life will be unfruitful, where is it coming from? Then talks about three things, or four things. Cares of the world, deceitfulness of riches, and lust for other things. Talks about worry, which means cares, worry, where our mind is so preoccupied, and it says cares of this world. So when do things that we, let's say, legitimate needs, when do they become worry? The Lord Jesus in Matthew chapter 6, he says, don't worry about these things. For the Father knows that you have need of this, and he talks about certain things that are basic, that are necessary, like food, clothing. These are basic things, these are necessary things. So he says this, for the Father knows that you have need of these things. So don't worry about it. So the same word here, care. So when do these legitimate things become care? When we are preoccupied with it, when we are not really, maybe we are not really working towards it, planning towards it, but we are unnecessarily just thinking over and over about it, and it's not helping. So that actually has the capacity to choke the word of God. So that is something that we see. It's like a thorn, it jokes, it makes the word of God unproductive. So that's why the Lord says, do not worry. Do not worry because you cannot change by worrying. So does it fullness of riches? Does it fullness of riches? Riches actually give us some sort of confidence, some sort of assurance. But like we see in financial stewardship, what we've learned, it's a very thin line. So the Bible says, talks about don't put your trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God who gives us richly all things to enjoy. So the deceitfulness of riches, if we are somehow deceived saying, this is my foundation, this is my refuge, this is the backing that I need, then that's the deceitfulness of riches. So that has the capacity to again choke God's word, that my heart is not sensitive, my heart is not tender towards God, and it talks about other things like lust for other things, pleasures of life and so on. So the thing is that God's word has the capacity to produce, God's word needs to be sown, needs to be nurtured, and in order to produce, and it is like the seed. When you look at the seed, it has so much potential. And the thing is it has the power which is within, which is resident within, and it produces. Okay, so 1 Peter chapter 1 verse 23 talks again about the word of God, about it being the seed, and it says that we are born again by the word of God. Okay, 1 Peter 1, 23, having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible through the word of God which lives and abides forever. Okay, the incorruptible seed, we are born again by the incorruptible seed, the word of God. So something supernatural, something eternal that we receive and experience by the incorruptible seed, which is the word of God. We received it, we received the word of God, we received that truth, and the truth was this, that he died for us on the cross, and he died for us since he rose again for our justification, and we believe in our heart, we confess with our mouth, and that incorruptible seed cost us to be born again. So word of God produces, has the power, and so on. So all this we are seeing, we are studying, so that we understand the value of God's word, so that we don't move away from the centrality of preaching the word of God. So we might think, okay, this seems very, very unimpressive. So why should I share this? It seems to be very, very simple. At times, it seems very basic, but we know that it is the power of God. This is the power of God, power salvation. So never underestimate the truth of God's word, the power of God's word. 1 Thessalonians chapter 2 verse 13 says, for this reason, we also thank God without seizing, because when you receive the word of God, which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 2 and verse 13. 1 Thessalonians 2 verse 13, which effectively works in you. So he's talking about these believers in the Thessalonian church, so they received the word of God, they received it from them as they administered, and he says, you received it as the word of God and not as something that we were sharing, we men were sharing, but you received it. It is the truth, it is the word of God. And he also says that this effectively works in you who believe. And the word used there in the Greek, which means there is supernatural power, there is divine energy that is released, effectively works in you who believe. So God's word supernaturally works in us even as we believe. So one more verse, James chapter 1 verse 21. James 1 verse 21. Therefore, lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word which is able to save your souls, receive with meekness the implanted word. So when somebody receives with meekness the implanted word or the word that is sown, the word that is sown in their hearts. Another translation says engrafted word. So what does it do? It is able to save our souls. So nothing else does that. It is the word of God which saves the soul. In Proverbs, we see this exhortation, which is really nice. Proverbs chapter 4 verse 20 onwards. Proverbs chapter 4 verse 20. My son give attention to my words, 20 to 23. My son give attention to my words, incline your ears, your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes. Keep them in the midst of your heart for they are life to those who find them and health to all their flesh. Keep your heart with all diligence for out of its spring the issues of life. Now look at it. It says give attention. So to the word of God give attention. It says incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes which means keep it visible, keep it, go to it over and over again. Keep them in the midst of your heart. For they are life to those who find them and health to all their flesh. And again keep your heart with all diligence. So we have been asked to or exhorted to have a rich deposit of God's word. To always have a rich deposit of God's word. Where do we find that scripture? Yeah, so where do we see that? Colossians, right? Okay. So Colossians 3 16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. In all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Then it says whatever you do word or deed do all right. Then let the word of God dwell in you richly. Okay. Yeah. Colossians 3 16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. Okay. So are there always be a rich supply of God's word in our hearts? Okay. So which means that as people who have been called to communicate that we ourselves we ensure there is a rich deposit of God's word in our hearts and we make sure that we communicate the same thing. The same revelation, the same understanding that people also have a rich deposit of God's word in their hearts. Okay. I'm not going into the rest of the things like meditation of God's word and all those other things. But the fact is that God's word is like a seed. Okay. And in this publication you can just read through it again and it talks about something practical that we can do. Okay. Since it's like seed, okay. So I need to take the word of God, make sure that it's on in my heart. Okay. Meditate on it. Confess it. Think deeply, confess, work, act on it.  Read it, meditate upon it and confess it, declare it. On Thursday about wisdom and understanding, Friday about success and prosperity, Saturday ministry and miracles and so on. So we see that as we go through scripture, we see there's so much. We really scratch the surface of it, of what is God's word. And there's so much that we, even as I was just reading through, I realized there's so much that we can actually do intentionally pursuing God. When we say, Lord, I'm pursuing you, I'm seeking you, this is part of it. So there's so much that we can do intentionally seeking God, making sure that his word is in our heart at all times. Okay. So, yeah, so let's read Isaiah 55. Okay, Isaiah 55. So God himself testifying and saying, this is what my word is saying, this is what my word is. So, okay, Isaiah 55. Verse 10, okay, for as the rain comes down and the snow from heaven and do not return there, but water the earth and make it bring forth and barred, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth, it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. Okay, so God actually testifying saying, this is my word, this is the word that I send out, it will go and accomplish the purpose for which I'm sending it. Now, how does God send this word? Through pastors, Rinchen. Who yes, Rinchen. How can he say that? Through Holy Spirit, through his word. Yeah, I mean, that's true. Pastor is also true. Right. Yeah, yeah. So, we are messengers. See, one is God sovereignly does it. He speaks his word. It can be an audible voice, it can be a prophetic message, it can be, God sovereignly does it, but the fact is that God does it through others as well, just like how we did with Jeremiah, he does it, just like how he does with any prophet, he does it. So, we are priests, prophets and priests. We are kings and priests unto God, right? So, he gives us his word in order to speak it out, in order to communicate it to others. So, the word of God comes to us. God chooses to speak, release his word and this is what it says that, you know, my word will, he's saying my word will produce. Now, is it conditional or unconditional? See, God speaking his word, he speaks it sovereignly. Okay, right? Certain things we know are, like you said, unconditional. In the sense, God has set this time and seasons and so on, a second coming and all, whether we believe in it, whether the world is going to receive it, it's going to happen, right? But we know for the word to produce in our heart, for our lives to be fruitful, for the prophetic word to, you know, maybe there's something personal in our lives that is directing that we need to receive. And the parable that we read just now, Mark chapter 4, that we need to nurture, we need to receive, and then it becomes fruitful. Okay, so, when we look at Isaiah 55 and we can say, you know, God's word will, yeah, it will just happen, right? Yeah, but we need to be believers, right? The 1 Thessalonians 2 and verse 13, the verse that we read just now, it says that, that effectively works in you who believe, right? So, us receiving God's word, us having faith in what he says is so very important for the seed of God's word to produce in our lives. Okay, so the fact is that God's word is powerful, God's word is life changing, right? God's word renews our mind, God's word breaks chains, okay? So, therefore, you know, I'm reiterating over and again, let's not move away from the centrality of God's word. Now, let's base what we are saying on the word of God and not because it sounds great or not because we heard from someone and it's, you know, it sounds good, right? We base it on God's word, okay? The second thing that we need to see is that God has chosen human beings or you and I to be the communicators of these, communicators of His power, of His word, okay? Now, that's His plan. We see that right through Scripture, again 1 Thessalonians 2 and verse 13, God actually releases His word through His people to minister His word. 1 Peter 4, the same exhortation, let Him who speaks, who is it for all believers, right?  So, God's word has power to change lives. It can be something simple, but changes. I'm sure you've heard that, I don't know if I shared it with you, but this person who was called, who's actually a New Age Guru, right? Who was actually into deep into transcendental meditation, astral projection and all those things, right? He was actually, his name was Talbru and in the West, like, he came to India to learn to all this, spend time with, you know, with a lot of these people, Sai Baba and all these others. And then he was a much sought-off teacher of meditation and yoga and all those things. But one day when he was going in his car somewhere in the US, he, for some reason, he switched on a Christian radio channel on his car in his car and he heard, you know, the simple gospel, you know, it was not like something that was explaining, you know, about yoga or about, I think it was just the simple gospel, how God loves, God loves everyone, John 3.16 and how he came to give us eternal life and the power of the cross and so on. He just heard that, he received that and it made sense for him. He had actually experienced the power of the other side, right? So he had experienced, he had wielded, he had taught, you know, all that, that comes with the yoga and the Kundalini yoga and all those things, astral projection, which means that, you know, being here and then, you know, moving in the spirit and all those things, he had experienced that. But yet, the simple truth of God's Word was so impactful that it completely changed his life at that moment and hear the gospel, it was so fresh from everything. That was the first time he was hearing it and it was so fresh and so deeply convicting from anything that he has heard and so, you know, even it could be a morning devotion, it could be something, but you understand the power of God's Word, right? As long as you're speaking the truth of God's Word, know that there will be impact when it's received, when it's believed on. The Word of God brings faith, brings growth and maturity in the life of the believer, okay? So understand that Romans chapter 10 verse 17, okay? Romans 10 verse 17, faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. So faith is something spiritual, faith is something that comes through the Word of God. So Word of God, God produces faith in us, okay? So the Word of God produces something which is supernatural, which is faith in Him, right? So faith in God does not come any other way, right? If you want somebody to walk in faith, somebody to grow in faith, which means that we need to share or communicate the Word of God, okay? Right? So the Word of God equips the believer, the Word of God informs the believer, brings the believer from ignorance to light, right? So Paul writes many times, right? Brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant. And then he teaches about the gifts he says that.   I think four times he says, I do not want you to be ignorant in all the episodes, right? So in Thessalonians also he says in 1 Corinthians 12 also, right? So Word of God teaches us, Word of God brings us from being in darkness into light. Word of God transforms us because when we take the Word and we renew, Word of God transforms us, okay? So when we preach, we preach the Word of God, okay? Uncompromisingly, making sure, making, understanding that this is what happens when we carry the, when we communicate the Word, right? Okay? Any questions or anything that you might want to add? No questions? Yeah. Yeah. And also like I heard one preacher say that about this verse, we should let the Word dwell in us richly. So for that verse, like he was saying that the meaning of the verse is like you have to like read, like you cannot just read like one verse each day. He's saying like you have to read like the whole scripture, read as much as you can, all that. But then also like hearing from past sessions, like sometimes that God just speaks to him, like to just one verse. Yeah. That's what he meditates on it. Right. So both have their place. So when it comes to meditating on God's Word, like deeply meditating in the Word of God, so just focusing on that one thing. And I think in this book also he writes about how we stayed with John 1 verse 1 in the beginning was a word or some scripture like that for about, I think four days or five days, just that one verse meditating on. So that has its place. But to study the context, to study the background that has its place as well. So we understand the whole thing. So both have their place. But when it comes to meditating, typically when we say meditating on God's Word, to go deeply and receive from God's Word the revelation. Yes, this is what it is to go over and over and over again. Maybe it's one verse, maybe it's two verses and you draw as much as possible where the Holy Spirit teaches us. So both have their place. Yeah. Okay. So one more question. Is it possible for us to unlearn half-truths, injustice within us in our subconscious mind, even as a child? How can we be overcomers according to God's Word, even when other thoughts keep surfacing in our minds? Yeah. So definitely, there are several things that we pick up as human beings, as we grow. And we don't even realize it. And also we learn from our immediate family, our parents. We learn certain things. For example, I just tell one thing is like, maybe in the house, if people were always talking down to women, talking down on women, not respecting, not respecting, let's say the father always made fun of the mother and said, oh, you don't know anything. So the sons also learn the same thing. Was it taught to them? This is how you need to do it. You need to know, but they just learned. So like Jack in question, yeah, all these mixed ideas, how do we unlearn it? We unlearn it when we receive the Word of God. We unlearn it when we... So the power of God works in us, we unlearn it as we intentionally renew our minds with the Word of God. So yes, it is possible. And that's what transformation is about. So yeah, the thoughts would keep surfacing. And that is what renewal as Romans 12 talks about, where we discard those thoughts because they are not in line with God's Word, which is the truth. And we take on the truth of God's Word. So we let go and we take on. And then there's renewal. Okay, so we'll stop here. And thank you so much. God bless. We'll meet again.