Paul Saladino is a carnivore doctor. He claims to be the leading authority on the carnivore diet. That doesn't make much sense considering he received his MD in psychiatry merely two years ago, has barely any clinical experience let alone in nutrition, hasn't even been following the carnivore diet for two years and just prior to that had a face full of spinach telling you how good plant foods are. Since Paul has graced us with his presence, his ideas and information have been plagiarized from several sources, mostly my own YouTube channel. Paul has copied his way all the way to the Joe Rogan experience and to no surprise he plagiarized over 50 of my ideas to structure the entire conversation of the podcast. For anyone unfamiliar, the definition of plagiarism is passing someone else's ideas off as your own without crediting them. Since many of Paul's buddies are telling me this isn't plagiarism and that I should be grateful for him spreading my knowledge, I thought things over. And one of my buddies made Paul a website as a thank you present. Check out PaulSaladino.com for all of Paul's amazing ideas. Since there are so many instances of plagiarism on this podcast, I'm going to play the clip from the Joe Rogan podcast, play my clip from several months to years ago on my YouTube channel, then I'll briefly explain it. And keep in mind, this is what I had the willingness to find. I would safely bet there's over 100 instances in this entire podcast of direct plagiarism. And before we start, I do want to say, whoever wrote the script for this podcast did an excellent job of condensing the past three years of my YouTube channel into a few hours. The majority of the nutrients our bodies require come from animal-based foods, whereas planned foods serve a lesser purpose of energy. Whole Foods Meat-Based Diet is a stab at the whole foods plant-based nonsense, as animal foods need to comprise the majority of an optimal human diet, one. Just in the first minute, they already stole one of my creative concepts. The reason I put Whole Foods Meat-Based Diet in the title of my book is because I thought if someone stole that creative concept, that take on Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet, it would be such blatant and obvious plagiarism, they wouldn't be able to get away with it. How can they steal something I put in the title of my book over a year ago? It's ridiculous. And I think that if people spend time in the wilderness, regardless of the latitude, they'll start to appreciate this. And I've mostly spent time in latitudes that are further from the equator than not.  Well, how about people who collect mushrooms, like they make mistakes? The thing about forging for fruits or vegetables or tubers, you would actually starve to death in the wild, essentially. They can be used and these plant foods can be used to supplement a diet, but if you were stuck in a survival setting, you would not survive on plant foods, regardless of how much access to them you have. Humans need to survive in nature and if you're eating berries in the forest all day, it doesn't matter if you have unlimited access to berries, you will starve to death eating fruit. Two, the idea that you'd starve in the wilderness with only plant foods is something I've been saying for years on my channel. As I was learning about this and thinking about carnivore diets and animal-based diets, I had to learn a lot of stuff myself. I was trained as a physician, I wasn't trained as an anthropologist, and I took ecology in college. You learned it yourself, Paul? You mean from Frank Tafano's YouTube channel? Here's a question, though. Is it good to eat some of them because there's this thing, and I know you've discussed this as well, the hermetic response. Like where your body responds to these effects that these plants are producing and the response by your body is good, the same way the response from a sauna is good. So as I was writing my book, I came up with these terms environmental hormesis and molecular hormesis. I'll grab your book right here. Molecular hormesis is broadly termed xeno-hormesis by some people. Xeno is this Latin term that means alien or foreign. When you think about these, a lot of in common parlance people lump together exercise, ketosis, sunlight, sauna with plant compounds, but I think that's not accurate. I don't think we should be doing that. I think we have environmental hormesis and molecular hormesis, and they're different things or when you're in the sun or when you exercise. You do generate reactive oxygen species, superoxide radicals, and they activate a system in your body called the NRF2 system. I can pull up a picture of it in a second. And that turns on genes that are involved in the antioxidant response to manage these free radicals. When people talk about hormesis and the benefits of added stressors, I really think that in the context of human diet, it's really different.  This is probably a terrible analogy, but would you put a little bit of diesel in your car engine just to stress it and make it run better? That's kind of what I'm thinking about here. Why would you purposely put something that will damage, it's a build up resistance to it in the future to have an immune response? I think the hormetic effect can be obtained in other ways, such as exercise, such as caloric deprivation. I think there are ways to achieve hormesis outside of consuming inflammatory foods in a way. You aren't producing antioxidants through exercise, tanning, being in the sun, technically damages your skin. It causes oxidative stress. Three, molecular versus environmental hormesis is something I've explained in the past. Paul is trying to coin it as his own new thing. I think that there certainly are studies with molecules like sulforaphane, which is this isothiocyanate compound from broccoli that show that it also triggers NRF2. It triggers this antioxidant response system. What we aren't told about much is the other side effects of sulforaphane, the so-called package insert that sulforaphane has. When you look at that, there's a large amount of evidence that this whole class of molecules, isothiocyanates, actually have many negative effects on the body. When you think about it from a plant's perspective, sulforaphane is pretty clearly a toxin. It's a booby trap. Isothiocyanates stimulate detoxification enzymes, inflammatory response. They interfere with DNA segregation resulting in cell death. They inhibit iodine uptake, which can kind of be countered with a higher iodine intake, but they also inhibit thyroid hormone, and that can't be countered by anything if this is consumed in large amounts. Paul takes some anti-nutrient information from one of my videos about isothiocyanates, and it's crazy how this guy's memory works because he'll literally say the specific bullet points from my video in the same order I said them as well. But what about the vitamins that you're getting from plants? There are essential nutrients and phytonutrients that you get from plants. What about those? This is really interesting when you look into it. There are really, this is going to sound extreme when I say it, but I'll back it up. There are no nutrients in plants that you cannot get from animal foods in essentially equivalent or more bio-equivalent forms. Of that 65 to 70% animal foods was where we got all of our nutrients and vitamins that we needed for optimal health. Our omega-3 fatty acids, our fat-soluble vitamins, A, D, E and K, all those are from animal foods and they are contained in animal foods in their most bio-available forms. Plant foods are missing key vitamins and not only that, the forms of vitamins in animal foods have much higher bio-availability and in some cases the forms of vitamins in plant foods aren't available to the human digestive system at all. You can't say the same thing about plants. There are no nutrients that occur in plants that you can't get from animal foods. Animal foods not only have vitamins that plant foods are missing, every single vitamin that is in animal foods is in a more available form than the plant version and in some cases the plant version is not available at all. Five, this quote is actually something he's plagiarized in the past several times. An original quote that I've been saying for three, four years now. And doses as low as 10 milligrams of vitamin C per day could prevent scurvy. The body only needs 10 milligrams of vitamin C a day to prevent scurvy. Six, what a surprise. We both came to the same conclusion that 10 milligrams of vitamin C per day prevents scurvy. Although something like this isn't as direct as the other examples of plagiarism, it's important to note as there are too many of these coincidences of him coming to the same conclusion as myself. This expression knows to tale. A lot of people don't know what we're talking about. What you're talking about is organ meats. Yeah. Yeah. Most people when they think of eating animal products, they think of just eating tissue, muscle tissue. Seven, this is an example of plagiarizing someone else. Paul has been using this nose to tail term for over a year without ever saying where it came from. A famous British chef for Gis Henderson's book, like it's not your idea. So he would say that while meat of any kind is in great demand, it is interesting to note the following are the favorite cuts. The brisket of the beef with the fat and the cartilages. So these indigenous cultures in the Arctic would, they would favor things with fat and connective tissue.  And number four is the liver of any animal. Eight, that book excerpt is actually something I tweeted Joe Rogan two years ago. Now they're showing the exact same one on the podcast. I kind of have this thing that I like to do with people where I have them eat raw liver and it's really cool to see how it turns their brain on. The baseline nutrition depends, you know, we'll determine how much of a buzz they get. In my experience, this high feeling is not just specific to rotten animal foods. I get this feeling when I go out in the sun, when I eat fresh liver, when I eat fish eggs, there's something about obtaining nutrients in our natural environment that makes us feel good. Nine, Paul is acting like he discovered eating raw liver and high meat. Spherage as well as myself have been doing it on YouTube for several years. You lose a little bit of nutrients when you cook it, not much, but you lose a little bit. So I've always been fascinated by how many of this is such a nutrient rich organ. How much of it can I actually preserve in terms of nutrients? And do I feel differently when I eat it raw? So overall, yes, we do lose some nutrients when we eat meat. Especially well done for a long period of time. But the temperature that most people cook meat to is not too significant of an issue. 10. Oh, look, Paul also thinks the nutrient loss from cooking isn't that big of a deal. Great idea, buddy.     You can alter food in some ways to make it more palatable and to kind of circuit this tidy mechanism. The basic principle is that foods occur in nature in certain states and humans have the ability to alter food using various ways. 11. Not only is Paul taking my ideas, he's trying to sound like me. He's using similar words. Food powder, ability and satiety are things I've been mentioning for years. But he just takes those terms that I haven't heard anyone else besides myself use. So few humans in 2020 have gone for more than 18 hours without eating food. Yeah. Very few of us in how many decades we've lived or have utilized the fat burning systems in our body. Yeah, to me, it's absolutely absurd when I think of like my mother or my sister or my father.   It's really amazing the difference between someone that follows a standard American diet versus someone that is mindful of their food choices. It's a constant state of inflammation versus a constant state of, you know, how we're supposed to be. 12. Very few people have gone their whole lives without eating food. I thought that sounded familiar. But if we're doing the standard American thing, which is to eat constantly and snack throughout the day and then can't wait to have dinner and then can we have breakfast and can we have lunch and your body never really gets a break. It's always digesting. When people follow a standard American diet or any modern diet, you're literally consuming inflammatory foods every few hours the entire day.  That's inflammatory. You're having an egg McMuffin for breakfast or croissant. That's inflammatory.   The constant person is always in a state of inflammation. 13. Hey, Joe, that sounds familiar too. We wouldn't have been successful in hunts every day. We would have had some hunts that were successful and some gathering sessions with which were successful and others which weren't. And when they're not successful, you're you're fasting. You can imagine the only way you can really break a fast in nature is to hunt an animal. And if you really were starving, you would have probably eaten some of that animal raw. It was more about having a steady supply. So, you know, if we killed an animal, maybe we would eat really well for two, three or four days and then go periods of time without food. Why not live according to the way our ancestors had access to food in a sense that we might not have always had access to food for days or maybe weeks at a time. 14. I compare fasting to caloric deprivation from poor hunting. Tissues in the body that require glucose.  If you have too much protein. Yeah, which may not necessarily be a bad thing. It's just it's human physiology. People worry about too much protein, knocking them out of ketosis on a carnivore diet. But unless you have some underlying medical condition where your body has to maintain a certain blood sugar level, you shouldn't worry about natural eating patterns causing you to leave ketosis. It's not this end all be all magical 15. Leaving ketosis isn't the end of the world. Hey, great idea, Paul. Honey has a lot of really unique properties, too. It does, yeah. There's there's a certain honey. I want to say it's from New Zealand. My wife was just talking to me about it the other day. Manuka. Yes, that actually helps people heal better. I think a lot of honeys do that, actually. Now, Manuka has a very good publicist. I haven't seen anyone. I think it might. I think it's super expensive. Yeah, I think a lot of honeys can help with that. But if you look at the literature on honey, there's studies. So so this is a very special type of honey.  16. Paul jumped on the honey band wagon after he saw me eat it. But I couldn't find the exact video where I debunked Manuka honey. I think it was in one of my day of eatings.  The words I say, my mannerisms. It's really creepy. So fructose bypasses phosphofructokinase and can essentially move down the shared glycolytic pathway into the formation of the glycerol backbone and triglycerides, which are essentially fats without any without any breaks. Again, in orange, the impairment of glucose by fatty acid oxidation it increases along the pathway 17. I think this next idea was actually stolen from Ray Pete, but he could have also seen it in my Randall cycle video. There's some really interesting evidence that polyunsaturated fatty acids probably hijacked these satiety mechanisms as well. And that linoleic acid, specifically in other omega sixes, can have negative consequences at the level of the brain and you don't get that satiety response to turn off. High omega six in the diet from eating too much conventional beef, eggs, pork and chicken can increase appetite due to an imbalance in the endocannibinoid system. So you end up overeating that crappy feedlot meat. And these issues just keep compounding themselves. And there are downsides to consuming too much arachidonic acid, one of them being an imbalanced appetite due to disruption of the endocannibinoid system. Eighteen omega six disrupts satiety. Yeah, I might have said that a dozen times on my channel. Their eyes kind of, the gears start turning. They're like, maybe I could do that. And it starts to look like I would say a reimagined version of a paleolithic diet, because that's what we're essentially asking. And some of you guys might be thinking, Frank, are you rebranding the paleo diet? Is this about the WAPF stuff? Nineteen. New take on the paleo diet. Wow, Paul, we sure have great ideas together. It's frankly toxic. Apples do not want you to eat the seed.   Right. Which is how they wind up growing. How they grow. Seeds tend to be the highest in anti-nutrients because that seed wants to survive the digestive tract, be implanted in the fecal matter and grow into a tree. That's what nature intended it to do. Twenty. Seeds are meant to pass through digestion. This is actually the second time he's plagiarized this quote from that coffee video. But the story that I've heard from him and other Vians is valid. But it is often I was eating a diet of junk food. Right. I was I was drinking a lot. Yep. And I did this intentional choice, which is fricking amazing. I would give anybody a high five. I think anyone deserves congratulations for making any intentional choice in their diet. I just want to provide information to help them make the best choice. Right. And so I think that they've made intentional choices. They've cut out processed seed oils. They've cut out, you know, processed food and they feel better. And my question is, have you done the other thing? Right. Exactly. Have you eaten meat and organs? And since most people are following a standard American diet before they go vegan, they do feel better.  So you went from a very negative diet to a neutral diet. 21. Vegan diet is healthier than a standard American diet. That being is removed, processed foods and feel better, but would improve eating animal foods. Another thing I've said so many times on my channel, you know, I tend to talk about certain topics frequently, whether it's vegans, whether it's living naturally, whether it's this or that. And I've developed creative concepts in every single one of these.  Because you're eating raw liver, which will, because maybe don't give him that. That'll get you high. I don't think he got me high. It was OK. It was edible. High meat is essentially rotten meat. And the reason it was coined high meat is because you literally get a high feeling. 22. Second time of him mentioning liver, getting you high. Exactly. There's such a high proportion of them that you didn't when they get. What is the number? I think it's 30 to 40 percent, Joe. Let's find out. I love the statistic. It's a weird statistic, right? Because who's answering these? I always wonder, like, who's who are you asking? Like, there's so many people that never get asked. Yeah.  Vegans do sure go out of their way to replicate animal foods as closely as possible with plant foods. 23. Just like he steals my information, takes my phrases. Of course, he's going to steal my anti-vegan perspective. And the consumption of meat has gone up. So we'll consider meat as a problem driver. But look at that red line in the middle. We see what that line is. Yeah. That's vegetable oil, man. There's two problems with our modern diets.  Vegetable oils, refined foods, sugar. If you dig into that meat as a driver, this is the 10.18.34, Jamie. Look at the total meat consumption by type. That one. So what are we eating more of? It's not red meat, the type that's getting vilified. We're eating more chicken. So the idea that meat is continuing to have a negative effect on our health doesn't make sense. If we actually look at per capita red meat consumption statistics, it has actually gone down drastically over the past few years, heavily in favor of poultry. 24. Paul showed some charts comparing chronic disease rates to vegetable seed oil consumption. I think I showed that on a live sheen or debate, but I couldn't bother to find it. But I did find him using the same narrative on reduced beef consumption in favor of poultry. Damaged cells and damaged proteins within cells and damaged mitochondria. So within the cell, there are these, quote, powerhouse factories, which are probably ancient bacteria, you know, billions of years ago that combined with a single celled organism and we became eukaryotic with a membrane bound nucleus and a membrane bound organelle called mitochondria. Your body is a partnership between you and these bacteria called mitochondria that partnered up, you know, a billion years ago, whatever, to allow complex life to evolve. 25. This guy must have a photographic memory because he remembers odd nuanced phrases from my older videos. This time he's stealing from Tucker Goodrich. These polyunsaturated fats, they act differently in our body. And we don't fully have this figured out. But at the level of our mitochondria, it does look like these polyunsaturated fats, this linoleic acid rich vegetable oil is signaling things differently. And I think it's really, there's a lot of compelling evidence to suggest that linoleic acid is driving a dipocyte hypertrophy, meaning fat cells are getting bigger. If you take the cardiolipin, if you take the cardiolipin and you replace, say, linoleic acid with oleic acid, all of a sudden they become almost impervious to oxidative damage, right? 26. Paul, apparently we do have it figured out because I spoke about it over a year ago. You are stealing Tucker Goodrich's hypothesis and passing it off as your own. And really stop consuming animals fed corn and soy, especially pigs and and and monogastric animals like chickens. That's because when you feed the animal corn or soy, you guys might be thinking it's OK just to avoid vegetable oils, avoid seed oils when they're feeding these seed oils to animals. The fatty composition of the animal, of the pig, of the fish, of the chicken becomes composed of linoleic acid. Ruminants are unique because they have a rumen. Ruminants can take polyunsaturated fats and put and make them into saturated fats. Humans can't do this. Monogastric animals, humans, chickens, pigs, they can't do that. Cattle metabolize corn and soy differently than pigs and chickens. So their meat isn't as high in omega six, but the animals are just as sick.   We don't we need a small amount. But there's an evolutionary amount that I think has always been seen. If we look at cultures of indigenous people, they all have two to three percent of their calories as linoleic acid. So by consuming a high fat pork product or chicken product that wasn't raised properly, it's akin to consuming a vegetable oil in a way. Well, it is. You are consuming the vegetable oil. It's just packaged in a chicken instead of in a bottle. Twenty seven. Gee, I wonder who first started talking about all the crap corn and soy we're feeding the animals in the carnivore community. Hmm, could it have been Frank Tafano? When you eat fat in your diet, it is generally in triglycerides form, which is packaged into molecules called chylomicrons, which move from the intestines to the liver. In the liver, cholesterol, which is actually a steroid backbone molecule, is packaged with triglycerides into a VLDL, a very low density lipoprotein particle. It's like a bus. It moves triglycerides and cholesterol around the body because they're nutrients, because they're essential for human life. The tissue of these animals contains everything our body needs. It gives us the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, K2, all of the fatty acids our bodies need. And then we digest the triglycerides, turn them into chylomicrons and the chylomicrons transport these vitamins around our bodies. So why are we so afraid of our blood work? 28. He copied my explanation of nutrient transport in triglycerides. And again, this wouldn't necessarily be plagiarism, but once it's become blatantly obvious that any word that comes out of this guy's mouth has been learned from my YouTube channel, you just have to search and find it. If he says something that's intelligent or creative or appears new and exciting, it came from my YouTube channel. He does not do anything on his own. He's out surfing or doing some BS. Who knows what he's doing? But everything this guy says will be found on my YouTube channel. Guaranteed. Something that can be found on his own research, but he didn't do it. He didn't do his own research because he didn't have to. He's got it all laid out on a platform. OK, this is the lipid hypothesis. I disagree with this. I think it's an incomplete hypothesis. The origin of the lipid hypothesis, the idea that cholesterol is bad for us, was hypothesized by Ansel Keys. And let's be clear. People think this lipid hypothesis is a fact, but a hypothesis is never proven. 29. Hey, Paul, we both disagree with the lipid hypothesis. Why do we only get atherosclerosis and arteries? There's the same amount of LDL throughout our body, and veins and arteries are a contiguous system. And so why are we developing plaque in arteries, but not veins? And we never see plaque in veins unless they are transplanted into the arterial system. So there's clearly more things going on. And in the case of arteries versus veins, the prevailing hypothesis is that it's endothelial damage. So the inside of a blood vessel is the endothelium. And something has to damage the endothelium for this to happen, it seems. And higher pressure systems, the arteries seem to damage the endothelium in this network of glycoproteins on the surface of the endothelium called the glycochalex. And that doesn't happen in veins. They're lower pressure. At least this is one. One really interesting thing is that heart disease is likely not possible unless you have high blood pressure because that blood flowing rapidly causes small tears in the arterial wall. Those tears can accumulate substances such as oxidized cholesterol from a high omega six diet that forms an enlargement or a burst resulting in a full on cardiac event. Thirty, Paul comes to the conclusion that high blood pressure needs to be present for heart disease, as I did over a year ago. LDL is not the arsonist. It's the firefighter who shows up to quell the blaze. And that's kind of a complicated analogy. But you get the idea like a policeman shows up at the scene of a crime. Does that mean he committed the crime? Because there is evidence that LDL ends up in atherosclerotic plaque. People blaming saturated fat and cholesterol for heart disease is like blaming firefighters for trying to put out a fire. And not only are they blaming the firefighters for the fire, they're pouring gasoline on the firefighters and then turning off their water supply. It's a little bit hypocritical once you actually understand how cholesterol is used in the body. Thirty one, this is an analogy many people have made, but he probably saw it on my channel. Why look at other sources when Frank Tafano has everything you need pertaining to the carnivore diet in the setting of metabolic dysfunction? The LDL, and this is just my hypothesis, right? I don't think anyone knows this. The LDL perhaps gets retained. So LDL is a lipoprotein. I think it moves in and out of the endothelium into the subendothelial space freely. And there's something about there's potentially something about the LDL moving into that subendothelial space, getting retained. In that subendothelial space, so in if you were to take a blood vessel and cut it, you know, lengthwise and look down at like a tube, there's multiple layers. Look, I got more foam here. So distracting for Joe, you know, there's multiple layers, right? The innermost layer, if the blood's in here, the innermost layer is the endothelium. Below that is the intima and then the the submucosal layer and the adventitia. And just below the endothelium are immune cells called macrophages. And what appears to happen with atherosclerosis is that the LDL particles get retained in there for some reason, and the macrophages kind of pick them up. They eat them, they endocytose them, they phagocytose them. And so they kind of eat these LDL particles potentially as you know, they're trying to take care of something that could be problematic.  And that's the beginning of a fatty streak. And again, this is very high level basic stuff. It's not it's a little more complex. But there's something going on, I think, at the level of that sub endima, that endothelial, subendothelial space that these macrophages are not responding properly to LDL or the LDL looks damaged. Normally, endocytosis only brings a certain amount of LDL through the endothelium. But with dysfunction, it can be increased greatly. Same with transcytosis. And transcytosis is when the LDL cholesterol is taken into the intima and various things from TNF alpha can raise transcytosis up to 4.5 times, oxidized LDLs, leaky gut. And then what happens is when all this excess cholesterol eventually leaks through the arterial wall from glyco calyx dysfunction, from endothelial cell dysfunction, from unregulated transcytosis because of inflammation, now we have way too much LDL cholesterol in the arterial wall. So these proteoglycans bind to it. And what pretty much happens is the HDL cholesterol cannot keep up. So we could see how all these things can dysfunction and we could get too much LDL in the arterial wall. Now, what actually happens when there's too much LDL in the arterial wall? These SAMs, which are vascular cell adhesion molecules, mark the injured area, make a 911 call. This releases interleukin 6, tumor necrosis factor alpha, which raises C reactive protein. This is one thing that increases the transcytosis, which makes things worse. Monocytes, which are the police officers, the white blood cells turn into macrophages, they ingest the excess LDL, form it into a foam cell. And this is what causes fatty streaks in the arteries. Now, this is fine as long as HDL comes along and esterifies the cholesterol, allows the cholesterol to be used by various cells and tissues. 32. And man, this one here tastes me. I spent so many hours and hours and hours researching this one. But Paul is claiming this is his idea. The cause of heart disease is his hypothesis. Paul doesn't think anyone knows this yet. Paul, I explained this two years ago and I know you saw that video on my channel because you're saying the exact same thing. I am disgusted about how enthusiastic he is in presenting his new information. And so now you start to get into ideas of oxidized LDL versus native LDL. And what causes LDL to oxidize? Well, there's good evidence that excess linoleic acid in the diet might be doing it. XX oxidative stress might be doing it. Or at the level of the macrophage, when you have metabolic dysfunction, it's broadly disordered insulin signaling. Is there a correlation between arterial plaque increase and increase in vegetable oils? Yeah, well, I mean, there's a correlation. Yeah, we could draw the same grass. Yeah. If your LDL particle contains linoleic acid, your body converts it into HODE, nine HODE and thirteen HODE are metabolites that form under oxidative stress. Once linoleic acid becomes oxidized in LDL, aldehydes and ketones covalently bind ApoB, creating LDL that is no longer recognized by the LDL receptors in the liver, but is now recognized by scavenger receptors on macrophages leading to the classic foam cell formation and atherosclerosis, a.k.a. heart disease. There are studies that show that the more linoleic acid you eat, the more enriched in linoleic acid your LDL particles become. And then the more oxidized your LDL particles become. And if you decrease LD, if you decrease linoleic acid, there's a decrease in the oxidation of the LDL particle. You are what you eat. If you consume vegetable seed oils in high amounts, all of the fats, the lipids in your body, including cholesterol, will turn into linoleic acid. Human adipose tissue studies have demonstrated that in the long run, its fatty acid composition approached that of the diet. The body starts recognizing that extra linoleic acid as an invader. Body starts attacking it, trying to remove it, resulting in incredible amounts of oxidative stress in the arteries, organs, essentially all tissues in the body.  So there's a lot of kind of pieces that look like the dots are connecting it. So to connect the dots, to connect the dots, connect the dots between all these chronic diseases and figuring out what the common denominator is worth, right? So it turns out that a natural human diet is pretty low in linoleic acid. Thirty three. Move a special number. Man, is he really running with the hard work of Tucker Goodrich, Ivor Cummins, as well as myself. The whole reason I think about this stuff, Joe, is because I want people that I care about to be around and I want to be able to share that with other people so that they can experience their life better. Really? You think about this stuff, Paul. You want to make people's lives better?   When you eat meat or fat, your bile contracts, there's hormones, choleosis, the kinin, you release bile. Bile is a combination of cholesterol, bile salts, bilirubin. And bile salts are supposed to be reabsorbed in your small intestine.  Then you have the ileocecal valve and the large intestine. The large intestine is like the colon, right? And the colon goes up and over and down. And so the if bile acids end up in the colon, they are cathartic, meaning they will cause diarrhea. Intestinal bile acid transporters recycle bile from the small intestine to be reused. And if that's not functioning, it's another reason to have a lack of bile. If you don't have a gallbladder, the weaker bile will just trickle down into the small intestine. And depending on your liver's ability to produce bile, you know, you can have too much or too little. And the former will usually cause diarrhea. The latter causing constipation. 34. Hey, Paul, I'm glad you watched my gallbladder video. It's comically ridiculous how this guy cannot add anything to the conversation. We're literally, I don't get it. Just switch the words around a little bit and add something. And it won't sound like you ripped it from my channel. He can't even do that. The fiber is such an interesting thing. So it's none of it's true. If you actually look at the medical literature, there's no evidence that fiber improves constipation. Fiber is like the carbohydrate argument. You don't need fiber. You don't need carbohydrates. Eskimos did not get fiber. Babies do not get fiber when they drink breast milk. Fasting people that fast still get bowel movements, regardless of their fiber intake. It's just one of those things where the argument's for fiber. 35. Recently, I've changed my opinions on fiber, but Paul is still stuck with my old conclusion. I wonder if he'll shift gears in the near future as well. When I was a vegan, I lost 25 pounds of muscle mass and all kinds of other issues. 25 pounds from where you are now? Yeah. Wow. You must have been very, very thin, very skinny. So I'm 170 to 175 now and I was around 140. So even maybe 30 pounds. Wow. 30 pounds of muscle mass. How did you feel? Not great. And you did it for health because you thought it was a good thing to do? Yeah. So it was the beginning of my medical career. It was probably 15 years ago. 36. That's a lie. Paul says he was vegan 15 years ago, but we know from his deleted Instagram posts it was more like two years ago. What he's doing now is probably better than the standard American diet. Yes. If you are very careful about supplementation and you think about creatine and carnitine and choline and vitamin K2 and B12 and bioavailable proteins. I mean, so in some cases, a vegan diet can actually be less inflammatory than a standard American diet. Protein, although vegan, you can get your protein from beans and lentils. The availability is very clear. Humans do not utilize it well. I'd like to think this is the most informative video out there on how to actually be healthy on a vegan diet. 37. A vegan diet is better than a standard American diet. Supplements. Sounds familiar. Talk about the least amount of suffering. You raise one animal in an ecosystem that is psycho. That's the way it's been going for thousands, millions of years. The most vegan diet there is. We'd be consuming one grass-fed animal per year, one or two cows per year, because what justifies killing trillions of bugs, rodents, all of these things, ruining the biodiversity of the soil, destroying the environment. Because what? It doesn't have eyes and a face. 38. One animal is the least amount of suffering. Great idea, Paul. Wish I would have thought of that myself. We're starting to think about the way our ancestors ate in an ancestrally consistent diet. But we also need to think about how the heck did they live? And there are certainly a lot of modern considerations that we have to keep in mind when trying to replicate the lives of an ideal human being in our indigenous, our hunter-gatherer ancestors. 41. Thinking about how our ancestors live. Lifestyle. Stealing another main focus of my channel. I thought your focus was the carnivore diet, Paul. Not ancestral diets or living. You're going to start stealing everything else I do? What, there's so many times, but social media is such a double-edged sword. And it is such double-edged sword, double-edged sword, double-edged sword. 40. Something about this guy using the phrases I've been saying for years really hurts me. So as I think about the irony of 2020 or even the last century that we have, we've put ourselves in digital worlds to work on computers indoors to make fake numbers in a bank account or green pieces of paper that allow us to go hike.  I went to residency. I didn't expect this to happen. I got interested in stuff. I started talking about my ideas.  You started talking about your ideas.   And I've had to, you know, when I first started with the Carnivore diet, I thought, OK, all carbohydrates are bad, even in the last year and a half. I've kind of said, you know what, maybe there's some nuance here. And it's so strange because there's definitely religiosity in the carnivore community that I don't identify with. And there were people just, you know, hating. Well, there's a lot of people in the carnivore diet that are basically meat eating vegan. There has been fairly strong anti-carbohydrate dogma in the keto and carnivore communities lately. And they have fairly good reason.  41. Just like myself, Paul is trying to claim he's being shunned by the carnivore dogmatism. But in reality, he has been promoted by them every step of the way. It's almost as if he's trying to step into my shoes. I'm permanently banned from all carnivore forums, yet the moderators of these forums are actually posting content for Paul Saladino. Hmm, I wonder who has the shill connections. And then when you find out how little when it comes to nutrition, how little nutrition education doctors receive. So many doctors that are giving you advice. Like I've had doctors say, you don't need to take vitamins. Just eat a well balanced diet. And I'm like, what are you talking about?  Like, tell me what a well balanced diet is. You have a gut. This is a crazy conversation. Joe, you're talking to a person that got his MD a few years ago whose complete knowledge of nutrition came from my YouTube channel. The irony is unbelievable. So if you look at the absolute nutritional content of grass versus grain, grass, finished versus grain, finished animals, they're pretty similar. OK, so muscle meats don't really matter from a vitamin and mineral perspective. Not much of a difference. What's different about grass fed animals, in my opinion, is what they're not fed, what they're not subjected to. The most important thing is that you're avoiding high omega six and you're avoiding the agrochemicals. You know, you can eat all the conventional meat you want and you'll eventually get the same nutrition as you would from this, except you're going to be consuming so many chemicals, so much omega six. You know, you couldn't get to that nutritional status in a healthy way. Forty two. Of course, Paul has the exact same viewpoints on grass fed versus grain fed beef that I've highlighted many times on my channel. The grains are sprayed with glyphosate and atrazine, which is a known xenoestrogen. So it's a it's a pesticide that turns male frogs into females. It's feminizing. Look at that. Six hundred. Now you're going into Alex Jones territory.  Atrazine is a xenoestrogenic herbicide and endocrine disruptor. Here is a visual of it causing ovaries to grow in uprogs testicles. Forty three. Hey, Paul, I'm glad I could do the research on atrazine for you. It's going to have less of that in its fat. Less less of this less glyphosate. Glyphosate is water soluble, so it'll probably be in the muscle.  Toxins, pesticides, herbicides are stored in fat. But this is the kind of stuff that's never been really looked at. So grass feeding is not as much about the increased nutrient content. Grass fed, grass finished or grain finished, they're both nutrient rich. But the grass finished is going to have less of the bad stuff in the meat and less of the bad stuff in the fat, in my opinion. Forty four. In your opinion, you mean, in Frank, to Fano's opinion. You do a fantastic job of breaking this down, though. And the fact that you do this all on memory. Yeah, Paul, you really do have an impressive memory, I must say. I think mine's pretty good, too.  The mainstream medical establishment doesn't agree with this. And I'm fully ready. And I think this is going to become my life's work. You know, it's just it's really exciting to be in this pace. Well, you know, you better plan on changing your life's work because it's not yours. It's been mine. It will always be mine and I'm not going anywhere. I don't know why I bother doing this. It took me like 10 hours to go through all my past videos to find this crap.  He has adapted all of my ideas, even changes his ideas as I change mine. Is starting to talk like me, has been talking like me, uses the same wording, basically stealing my entire persona. This guy's career should be canceled. It should be over, yet he's in the spotlight. What scares me is he hasn't even copied 10 percent of what's available on my channel. I bet you this guy's cookbook is going to be written solely from the recipes on my YouTube channel. And there's already a second edition of his book, probably because he read my book and said, oh, well, Frank talks positively about some carbohydrates. And this ancestral diet stuff is a great idea. He's mimicking what I'm doing. Like, am I going to have to change my life so he stops copying me? Paul, just because you add complicated scientific terminology doesn't mean you can plagiarize my information. You did not add anything extra to my ideas. You just complicated and butchered them. The reason I was able to share these ideas on YouTube is because I interpreted that complicated scientific literature into simple layman's terms that the average person can understand, which is also probably the only reason you were able to understand it well enough to copy it so then you could re-complicate it and put people to sleep on the podcast because they think you're a boring, non-charismatic prick. You know why Paul was breathing so heavy at the end of that podcast? He knows what he was doing. The amount of information he has stolen, as well as the lies, what rubs salt in the wound is that he has no problem giving dozens of other cucks credit despite multiple times more information coming from me as a source. Oh, yeah, Dave Feldman says it's healthy to have an LDL of 500. Lean Math Hyper Responder.  The craziest part about all of this is that there's probably twice as much plagiarism on that podcast that I just couldn't find in my past videos. I can only spend so many hours doing this, guys. What's the point? As I said, I already exposed this guy so many times and it's just not sticking because he has so many connections, all his other buddies.  In a fair world, I would be invited to the Joe Rogan podcast. Joe would issue me a formal apology.  But that's not reality. These two degenerates are sitting in their sauna in Texas, counting money by selling people snake oil supplements. So that's probably going to be it. I really don't want to ever have to do that again. If I do any future updates on this guy's plagiarism, it will probably be maybe a quarterly or bi-yearly thing where I just point out where he got the information from. And, you know, it's it's not just me, guys. You know, he's plagiarized dozens of other people as well, except those people aren't like directly compromised because they're not in the carnivore diet space and they didn't have as much of their information stolen. Jason Fung doesn't seem to care that his book cover title was taken. Ray Pete doesn't seem to care that Paul's spouting the same information about Omega 3. So, you know, they're all in the same club together. They're all making money together. Who cares if one person is getting ripped off? So thank you guys for joining me. I'm probably going to take a break for a day or two just to collect my thoughts. You know, I have no problem making videos every day. It's just, you know, what's the point if this guy is literally just going to copy every single thing as I do it? You know, if I start eating pasta tomorrow, Paul is going to be sponsored by the Italian Durham Wheat Board and start saying how good pasta is. Like, is this ever going to stop? Is it just going to continue? Is that the reality of what's going to happen?


Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Wherever you are joining us from, my name is Abhijit Madhuri. I work as a talent advisor to organizations and individuals who are looking to upskill and be part of this vibrant skills economy, which we are all going to be a part of. My guest today has a couple of interesting aspects to him. So he has lost his wallet multiple times, once in the parking lot, twice at the airport, and has managed to find it for some strange reason. He manages to find those every time. He has the distinction of carrying a friend across seven or eight kilometers while they went hiking and this friend broke an ankle over the Sapura mountain range, you know, trying to do that. And of course, you know, the other interesting element is that he got selected to the Delhi School of Economics. Didn't sort of look at the admissions list because he was absolutely sure that he is not going to ever make it. So it was only when his father said that, well, did you go and look it up that he actually managed to do that? This gentleman, let me say that he is not only a well-known actor and director, both on screen as well as in theater. The other hint I've got to give for you is that he is instrumental in reviving the lost art form of storytelling called Dasan Goyi, which he is later expanded and Kisebazi. He runs a theater company called Hoshruba Laboratory in Mumbai. Of course, I'd go to be delighted to introduce my friend, Dhanish Hussain. Gosh, those are very impressive photographs. Thank you. Thank you, Abhijeet.  Well, these photographs, I've got to see my photographer friends, very skilled professional people who without any kind of fee or anything, just happily come and shoot me and then pass over these few photographs for me for moments like these that it can be used. Thank you very much. It's just reminding me that when we first met, which is almost like a decade from now, and you were with Vipro India at that time and you had invited me to conduct a workshop in storytelling with the personnel at Vipro, which was in this very fancy studio, Ramaji Studio in Hyderabad. And I had turned up there day one with the black nose because that's right. I was coming to the studio.  And I just, I had a black nose, which was very embarrassing, but there wasn't much I could do about it. So the whole storytelling workshop began with a very interesting studio. Why this man has a black nose? It was incredible. It still remains one of the workshops that people still talk about. In fact, I met one of the participants the other day and he mentioned Dhanesh in one of those films. And I said, yes, so he's got a thriving career now in films and all that. And thank you so much for taking time today. This is a workshop which is all about careers and how people sort of have different kinds of careers. So you've had a pretty interesting shift.  At least you went to Delhi School of Economics subsequently to, you know, did a business degree. You know, I had FMS, Faculty of Management Studies. You had a degree in that and MBA. You joined the bank and you left the bank. Talk to me about that. What, what did, when you were growing up, what did you want to be? What was your, if somebody has said what do you want to be when you grow up? What would that be? You know, I was growing up in a traditionally many class house where the aspirations are pretty straight jacketed.  So very standard career paths. They were there. Both my parents were academics. My father was a research economist at the agro-economics research center, which was an adjunct, affiliated institute to Delhi School of Economics. And my mother was a professor of personal literature at the University of Delhi at the arts faculty. So you can kind of understand as to what kind of aspirations my parents had. And also we were living in an era which was pretty insurance of information, most of the information about what career should be or what life should be was very much what you were getting from your parents and your uncles and extended network of friends and families around you. The mainstream information was really a newspaper or television and which was really one way. There was no way to interact. We did not know of other career paths or how sustainable those career paths are. So I was also very much like that, either I'd be a bureaucrat or I'd be an engineer or I'd be an academic. Very soon I realized that I could not be bureaucrat, engineer or doctor any such career path which required carrying a competitive exam. I realized I'm not good at that. I can't crack that.  So when I gave the entrance exam for Delhi School of Economics, I was pretty sure I would not make it. And for three days, I just didn't bother to go and check the admission list notice till my dad, who of course was working in same institute came back home and said, why are you not going and depositing your fee for Delhi School of Economics? And I said, what fee? And he said, well, you've made it. Your name is on the admission list. And because we used to live very near to the university, so I immediately took my bike and I went straight to the Delhi School of Economics and saw my name on the list. And next year, of course, I deposited my fee in Delhi School of Economics. Almost everyone, once they are finishing their second year, their masters, most of the people are applying for their PhDs and various Ivy League universities. So I did the same thing. So basically, I didn't really have any vision of what I wanted to be. I was just doing what I was told or I was just doing what I was seeing other people do. And when I finally got the admission in University of West Virginia for Environmental Economics, PhD in Environmental Economics, and all my costs were covered, tuition waiver and all those graduate assistantship, I just developed cool fee. And I said, look, it's barely managed to clear the school. I don't think I can go to a cold country far away and study in other four years and then get a degree. So these pay me, don't push me, I don't want to go to the US. And my dad surprisingly agreed to it. And that took me to the corporate world. And I got into the banking and that's the time when post liberalization economy was opening up. You had all these multinational banks and institutions coming in. So I applied and I got the job and I started working for them. This is Bonomi with the banking culture in the corporate world is very short lived. And very, very quickly, I started realizing that this is not really something that I'm enjoying. I'm not thriving in it. I'm just in the wrong departments where career growth is quite stunted, the departments where the career growth is faster within the banking industry, I'm somehow not making in into those departments and and the culture, the culture of, you know, sycophancy and basically too much networking and glip talking and being in the good books of the higher managerial position bosses, that wasn't really sitting with me. Well, you know, I was, I still kind of believed in the old style of banking where you basically first satisfy the customer and make sure a satisfied customer gives you more business. Whereas culture was becoming more about just turning banks into FMCG and you just, as if you're selling soaps and shampoos and and it doesn't matter whether the customer is satisfied or not, you just expand the customer base and getting whatever business and show numbers on excellent charts at the end of the day. So all this led to a kind of a disappointed, disgruntled existence which was not really good for my own mental health and for my own good being. And meanwhile, I also started exploring activities which will keep my evenings engaged and that led me to theater and over a period of three years of overlapping between theater and banks, I realized theater is something that I'm enjoying most and perhaps maybe this is something that I should pursue and that led me to Resire, which was here 2002, roughly around 31, 32 years of age and since then it's 2023 and we're sitting here and we're talking, so it's like two decades. When you look at the whole preparation for being an actor, you've actually had the opportunity to learn from, you know, the biggest names in theater, whether it was Barry John or M.S. Satyu or Nasseruddin Shah and Habib Tanveer and all the greats of Indian theater. When was this? Was this while you were growing up or was this after Delhi School of Economics when you decided? This was when I switched to theater. I mean, Barry, of course, happened when I was still working in bank and I was looking for options to engage, make my evenings better and I realized I want to do theater but I had no prior experience in theater and I started looking for information and Barry's name had become big at that time, this was 1998 and both Shah Rukh Khan and Manoj Bhashpai had kind of become huge. So everybody was talking about this one theater director in Delhi who was kind of a mentor to these people and I sought him out and he asked me, do you have any experience? And I said no and he said, well, you come over and attend a workshop which led to my first acting workshop, kind of my first grounding in acting and when I joined Barry John's workshop, that's the first time I realized actually that it is a skill. It's not really that if you feel intuitively you can actually connect. It's a serious skill you have to kind of acquire the wherewithal of acting and you need to apply those and over a period of time with rehearsals, with the application, with understanding, with research, you will be getting closer to a more accurate portrayal of the characters that you want to do. So that's the first time I realized that the skill that needs to be acquired and practiced and learned and applied before you could see results. So when you think about acting today versus, let's say, the version of acting that you chose to pursue and build your career in, how has that evolved? You know, how would you have defined it then versus when you're thinking about it as a career if somebody says, this is what I have to do? What's the difference? So, you know, there is a clear division in my career. I mean, I started off as a stage actor and for a good decade, I was just a stage actor. Then I kind of started doing cinema and gave a screen actor. And now I pursue both screen and stage together. So when I became a screen actor, I realized two things. First thing I realized was that we are not the generation that were born with camera and cell phones and social media and gadgets. So we were very self-conscious when the camera would come on us.  On stage, I didn't have a problem. I never became self-conscious on stage. On stage, I would be very comfortable in my natural self and performing and acting. But the moment I came in front of the camera, I would become very self-conscious. Suddenly, my mannerism would change. My body language would change. I would be very self-aware and that was a problem which I realized the generation after us don't because they've grown up with cell phones and social media. So it took me a while to ignore the camera. It took me a while to train myself to not let camera be on my mind and not hinder my performance. That was there. And that was the first thing which the self-consciousness of the camera, that was the person which I realized. And then I also realized that the process of finding a character whether on stage or on camera is similar. But the implementation of that is different because of the medium change. So on stage, you are physically presenting yourself to the audience. And it's most of the time unidimensional in the sense that the audience is in front of you physically the direction of your performance is straight ahead or some kind of a quadrant where you are no varying between that quadrant. So it requires skills like projection, requires kids like making sure that even when you are loud, you don't make it over the top and you still make it palatable for the audiences to get the nuances of what performances are. And that quickly changes when you come in front of the camera because here the audience is literally reaching up close to you. So suddenly your whole performance changes. You don't need to be projecting. You don't need to be mindful of where the audience is sitting. You just have to be as natural as you could rest the camera would do. And the other thing that I realized was that in order to have the cinema acting effective, you need to understand the edit and you need to understand the shot taking. So you must be able to understand which is the shot that could make it into the edit for the film. How do you know that? What is the process of doing it? Apparently by observing it by watching cinema, by observing filmmaking on the set. And I started realizing that a scene is divided between different shots. There is a wide shot, a master shot, a mid shot over the shoulder, close ups. All these shots are stitched together to make one proper scene that you would see eventually when the film comes on the screen. In terms of the performance, the emotional performance, the close up shots are the more important one because that's where your face is coming full on the screen and all the emotions and everything that you're saying has to come on your face. But then when it's a wide shot or a master shot when the camera is far away, it's more physical acting. So that means your posture, the way you are standing, the way you are gesticulating, all these are important. And you have to make sure that what you did in the wide shot, which was mainly physical acting, where it was the body. So it's like I'm standing by the roadside and I see the two men are fighting. I'm not able to understand the context, but I can see their bodies moving in a particular way, which gives me an impression that there is kind of a scuffle happening there. And when I reach close to them, that's when I see them really lunging at each other with ferocious words and expressions. So my first observation of them standing across the street and my walking up to them and then seeing actually up close, what is it that they're saying is match it. Similarly, so I have to do the same thing in acting as to I have to make sure that when a wide shot comes and the audience members see me standing or doing something and suddenly when the camera cuts and zooms to my face, there is a consistency between what they saw there and what they're seeing on my face up close. These things started making sense and that gave me an idea. Okay, when this shot is happening, this is where my focus should be. I should be more looking at the physical performance. When the shot comes closer, I should be looking more in terms of my emotional performance. When the camera is on my co-actor, I just need to give my lines correctly and not really performing in the sense the camera is not on me. So understanding the edit and the shot taking was very important given effective performance. Then you could calibrate your performance and make sure that you give the right pitch or tone when that particular shot comes and not that if there are 15 takes you are performing with the same energy and all 15 of them is then you're basically wasting your energy. So these things slowly and slowly started dawning on me and I started realizing that as the medium of the performance changes, you have to calibrate your performance and you have to make sure that your performance suits that medium, that particular medium, so as to be more effective with the audiences.  Talk to me about those things, where do they fit in? And the reason why we are sort of really talking about that is, you know, one of the things that I talk about in my book career 3.0 is one of the big skills to build is how do you teach yourself things that you do not know? What is that method of doing that?  You sort of really build expertise. It's not just that casual dabbling that we are talking about. You know, how do you do that? Well, I think that, you know, I remember, Abhijit, there was one performance of Dastangui and post-performance, there was a Q&A and it was at some college when that few were performing. We had these young undergraduates sitting there, the whole auditorium bristling with them and post-performance. So they really loved the performance. That was, of course, in Urdu and post-performance. One of the kids stood up and asked this question to me that, you know, your bio says that you went to Delhi School of Economics and FMS and this and that. And now your career is kind of performing stories of Urdu. So don't you think you had wrong education? Shouldn't you been studying this all your life and not going and studying economics and banking? And I laughed at that time and I just said, I just went to wrong schools. But the truth is this, that no education goes waste. What we study, why we what study, maybe because of many circumstantial things happening in our lives and we end up doing whatever we end up doing.  It does not mean what you've done before is a waste. Because one of the things about us human beings is that the skill that kind of differentiates us from other species is our ability to read patterns, our ability to draw inferences by studying data and then draw inferences and see patterns. And you might have studied something different. You might have you might have studied medicine, you might have studied somebody has studied engineering, somebody has studied mathematics. But the picture, the blocks of acquiring education are very similar. The way we declassify and deconstruct or classify things and then assimilate knowledge and then process it and then regurgitate it and apply it in our real lives. That process is very similar. That is not changing. Once you kind of understand the template, once you kind of understand how you acquire knowledge. So if you were just looking at one stream of career as a mountain and then the next stream of career as the next mountain, it might just be very Herculean and a very daunting task that oh, I need now need to cross another mountain. But once you kind of deconstruct that and see beyond and look at the template of acquiring knowledge, you realize that it's pretty similar. So if I've done something like this, it would not take me long to kind of understand something else. And once you start getting those hacks, it becomes easier for you to kind of do the next thing. It's just like when you're writing your first book, I'm sure when you wrote your first book, it must have been very daunting. And it was like, oh, I can never finish writing a book. And then you wrote it. And then you realized, oh, this is my learning, which you applied and which kind of became your learning curve. And the second time when you wrote it, it didn't take you that much time. And slowly and slowly, you know, you realize that, okay, there is a method to it. And you apply that methodology, you apply those templates and things start happening. And I think it's the same thing for one book to the other book. Now it might be that the first book you wrote was a fiction, while the second book you wrote was a fiction. So you are in that sense, literally going into something very different. You know, it's all nonfiction. But in the process, you realize that the hacks are kind of similar. It's just the content that is changing. But the process of writing the book is not really different. Similarly, it might seem to you it's a great career change. And I have to literally rebuild myself or start from the scratch. But the thing is this, the process is pretty similar of acquiring knowledge of the processing it or assimilating it and then applying that knowledge in order to get results. That process is very similar. And once we start understanding that, it becomes easier to acquire different skills. So I think people should not see it as that life altering or that daunting that, you know, this requires me getting a rebirth in order to do it. No, you can you can just do it. Just whatever knowledge you've acquired so far, don't think it's a waste. And just look for the methodology, the template, what is behind the curtain, behind the scenes and then apply that understanding. And it would become easier to acquire the new knowledge. Was there anybody in your family who was an actor, who therefore you could rely on and say, if that person can do it, I can do it as well? No, the first one. No, I was the first one. My daughter is the first one who was a singer in our family. So absolutely not. And one great example is my sister. My sister was an English major from Delhi University. She went to Delhi University, did her master's in English literature, and then she got married and she came back here. She came here to the US. I'm in the US right now. And in fact, I'm in her house right now. And as it happens, she, you know, she was newly married. She gave birth to a child. So she became more involved with house help during the child. And then my father suffered from a chronic kidney disease. So he had a chronic renal failure. And my sister, this was year 2000, she was visiting India. And she was completely frustrated by her experience in the hospitals, in terms of getting information on my father, in terms of making sure that he gets the best treatment. So she got so frustrated that she came back to the US. And she went to the university saying that she wants to apply and want to be a doctor. The university told her that because you didn't have a science stream in your high school and in your enter, you cannot study for, or MBBS, but you could stay be a nurse practitioner. And she studied nurse practising. And she studied over eight years, acquired whatever stages and degrees of nurse practising. And today she's a very successful nurse practitioner, has been for the last 15 years working in major hospitals here in the Detroit area, completely well versed with all medical knowledge. It's amazing that she started off when she was 29 and 30 in over the next two decades. She has built a very successful career as a nurse practitioner. So I'm saying that acquiring a new skill is really not as daunting as it may seem. It's really the willingness to go back to school and the willingness to open yourself again and the willingness to be open to any knowledge that is coming your way here. The more we remove the filters that we have, the more we remove the blockages, it will become easier for us to kind of invite the knowledge that's coming our way. And then it's a simple process of application. You learn, you apply, you observe and that's how we move forward.  Now, I'm not from the ecosystem that you are in which is acting and performing arts and all of that.  Is that true? Is it, you know, you've been an insider in both theater as well as movies. Is that true? See, human beings are human beings and one of our characteristics is tribalism because that's how we actually survived when the hunter-gathering period was in our lives is that your best survival was being part of a collective. So when you be part of a collective, the chances of you thriving, surviving is better and this tribalism is so inherent and so ingrained in us, it's very difficult to break. But that's not really the situation. So it's very much ingrained. So I think irrespective of what field you are in, you will see these social dynamics at work, somebody being alpha, somebody taking the lead, somebody, you know, herdism is happening, few people going there, it all happens. But also, you know, the kind of industry that we have. Eventually, it's your work that could speak for you. No amount of politics, networking, buttressing, people backing you is going to really lead you anywhere. At the end of the day, if you cannot act well on screen, it will be palpable to the audiences. If you're not a good filmmaker, it will be very much showing to the audiences. So, you know, the brass tax is this, that if you do not have the nuts and bolts to show what you want to show, the audiences will very quickly look through you and you will not be able to sustain yourself. So I think eventually in our industry, it doesn't really matter what camp you are or who you are supporting. Yes, you might speed up your career sometimes by joining some bandwagon. You might find it difficult if you choose another path. But I think eventually it is really about your ability to tell stories and how effectively you can use the skills and the tools that are there to tell those stories effectively. And if that you can do, then you will excel eventually, I think. In my book, I talk about storytelling as one of the skills for the future. You've been a professional storyteller starting with all your experiences in career and films and theater and now, of course, as you are writing your own repertoire. What is in your mind a story and what is a storyteller and why does it matter if I'm not part of the performing arts? Why does storytelling even matter? So, you know, one of the things that you mentioned was about being part of multiple ecosystems. One of the reasons why you would see me as a person in multiple ecosystems is because I do not see those systems as different systems. I just see them stories getting implemented in a different way. So, I essentially see myself as a storyteller and sometimes if that story needs to be said as a poem, I say I write it as a poem. Sometimes if that story needs to be said as a direct play for stage, sometimes that story needs to be said in a film medium that it becomes a screenplay. So, essentially, these multiple ecosystems are coming because primarily the storyteller, I am deciding as to what is the medium I want to tell my story better in and thus I end up being in that ecosystem where that story is being told. So, eventually I would say that we all are storytellers actually. Everybody is a storyteller. You are a storyteller, I'm a storyteller because at the end of the day this is we want. We have a story and we want to pitch that story to others so they become stakeholders in the story and more people become stakeholders in a story, the more the resources that story will get which would mean that a larger number of people would be able to sustain themselves better. So, essentially everybody is doing a story. There's a tech story happening. There is a political story happening. There is a cultural story happening. There is a art story happening. There is a fashion story happening. There is a culinary story happening. So, at every level somebody is telling you a story and the whole idea is this. It's not really the food. It's not really the tech of the iPhone. It's not really the tech of the stream yard. It's really the story behind this that should peg itself in the stakeholder's mind and that would attract the stakeholder towards this product or towards this experience or towards this film or towards this restaurant and that once they come in and what their experiences matches the story that you've told their soul and that would eventually result in higher volumes happening for whatever your stake is. So, I think everybody is a storyteller and when you are preparing to pitch your story to a stakeholder, you have to make sure that the most important thing that you realize what is it that your audience, who's your audience and what they want to listen. So, you bring in your story in a manner where they feel that they were not aware of this but, lately, you have tapped into a need which you have been able to identify just that you present it in a manner where it seems something very normal and they get attracted towards you and also, it is very deeply tied to our own inherent wish to experience new thrills. So, the moment people are exposed to something which is outside the purview of their experience they automatically get attracted to it. In brief, I think it's not really that only one particular type of people are storyteller. I think everybody here is doing storytelling, everybody is the storyteller. That is really the skill that we all should be good at if you want whatever industry we are in, if you want to thrive in that, the skill of being a good storyteller. When you think of pursuing your career then the performing arts, as you have, do you need to have a higher degree of risk-taking than some of the people who choose other professions? Do you need to have higher tolerance for ambiguity? Do you need to have a higher tolerance for failure? Which of these is true? All of them, I think. Because I've experienced a lot of time when I've been invited for corporate workshops, including the one where you invited me and this is a very regular refrain that I hear is that, oh, how brave of you that you were able to break the corporate shackles and tell whoever you are. I also want to do this. I also want to do this, but I just don't find guts enough to do this. And a lot of times, they have genuine reasons.  But I've seen that it is also a lot of how your temperament is. Are you a risk averse person or are you a risk-favoring person?  I think I was the risk-taking kind. I mean, my circumstances were no different. I had an alien father whom I'd take to hospital twice a week. I had a young girl four, five years old at that time and I'd not be treated or inherited a huge wealth from my parents or from my ancestors. So a lot of these circumstances were very similar. And I just took the jump. Thankfully, mercifully, people around me were very supportive of me and there was no pressure emotionally from the people around in my family. So I'm seeing that a lot depends really on what your own temperament and what your own conditioning is. I mean, a lot of people, they have grown up in cultures where their conditioning is risk-averse and they would stick to a safe choice and do a monthly check coming in their account. And some of the people we've seen in our childhood, people taking risks around us and somewhere it has seeped inside us and when our moment comes, we take that jump, we take that leap and we are able to do it. So it is there. Also, like this other question that you asked me, the tolerance to failure. I was aware when I took the leap. I did not know what my path will be. I did not know where will I end up being but I was pretty much aware that the success rate of this career choice is very low. Only 1% to 2% actually make it to a situation where they become household name or they get immense wealth. Most of the people, they kind of fall by the wayside and I was pretty aware of that. I also had some kind of a poppy confidence that I will be able to pull it off because when I started this, that was the first time I received appreciation from audiences and I realized that, okay, maybe there is something that I'm good at and it's only a question of applying myself further to become better at it and if I'm becoming better at it, the chances I will mess it up is only if I'm really foolish or stupid. Otherwise, I won't be able to. So I kind of went ahead but I was always aware that one needs to be prepared that most of the time you would be failing. You would be auditioning, you would not get the role, you would be meeting people but it would not try to find projects and that is the nature of the beast. You know, you can't really hold grudges against anybody. You just have to take it on your chin and move forward and that's what I really did. So it's also like in some sense, you have to become zen and make sure that every time there is a debacle or you are kind of failing, you make it an opportunity to learn something and reassess yourself and understand what is it that was not working for them. There's a VU and how do you get that extra skill in you to make sure that next time you have an opportunity like this, you don't fail. So all that in a sense also became an opportunity for that tolerance for failure. So instead of going down the rabbit hole that oh, I had so much expectation and I really wanted this role or I really wanted this project and then getting into depression or getting into some kind of listlessness, I'm used that opportunity to understand that what is it that was not working and then making sure that I acquired those required skills or understanding or application so that next time when I do this, I'm able to do it effectively and reduce my chances of failure. That's very important. You know, when you are talking about getting rejected from a role that you auditioned for, it's different from, you know, how when we apply for a role, you know, you're called for an interview. Yeah, which is like an audition in some sense. And somebody says, well, yeah, you are good, but there's somebody who's better.  We are painful. We say, oh, that's a terrible company. I'm so glad I didn't make it. You know, I've heard that it's a lousy place and which also, you know, is one way of telling yourself that it wasn't me. It was actually the other person. How do actors deal with this? Because they probably go through this far more frequently than many others. Yeah, so, I mean, it's a very interesting point that you've made that, you know, job interviews very much like auditioning for a role and what you really need to understand whether you're actors or whether you are going for a job position. I would not say mistake, but I would say like a shift in focus. One of the things that we do, we are focused too much on ourselves. Do we have the skills for this job? How would I present myself in the interview? Will I be able to answer everything correctly? And I think that is really the wrong focus. I mean, that is actually true, but that's really not the complete story. And one of the things which I tell young actors when I meet them is this, that, you know, getting a role is really not about how good an actor you are. Getting a role is really about capturing the imagination of the filmmakers. So what is the imagination that the filmmakers have? What is it they are looking for? What is it that in their head fits the role? And if you are able to read that correctly, you will be able to capture their imagination and get the role. So I think same goes with job interviews rather than focusing on what my strengths are, what my skills are. What is the imagination that the interviewers have, the company people have? What in their imagination is the person who would fit this role? And if you're able to understand that, which comes with a little research, you go around finding out what kind of people are in these positions, what kind of people were successful in these positions. The more you kind of do that and understand what is it exactly that is on their minds and you fit that role, your chances of getting that role would be much higher rather than whether do I have the requisite skill set or not. Because at the end of the day, as we keep moving up the echelons and the hierarchies, it's really not so much about the skill, it's really more about people management. It's really more about managing different aspirations and egos. It's really about reading the room correctly. It's really about reading the market correctly. It's really about reading the trends correctly. It's really about finding that foothold somewhere in future where the sand is not defined and you don't know where you will land. Will you land on a water or will you land on the sand? But able to envisage that foothold and then take everyone towards that foothold and making that into a reality is really the kind of thing which brings people around you which kind of attract people towards you. So I think whether you're auditioning for a role or you're going for a job interview whether we have the requisite skill sets or not, it is really understanding what is the winning proposition for the people who are the stakeholders and then capture their imagination and become that person which as for them would lead them into that future. You know, I was reading your biography on IMDB. It talks about you're running your own theater company The Hoshruba Repertoire in Mumbai and your productions being guard to the Taj Kisaul Duki Akhiri Kitabka and resides of course the ongoing storytelling project Kisebazi and the poetry performance project called Poetryification with fellow actor Denzil Smith. In my book I talk about this as a classic career 3.0 where you are earning your revenue from multiple different ecosystems and you started off with a traditional career 1.0 as a banker.  You know when you think about this model of earning from multiple revenue streams you're doing theater, you're working in Netflix films you're doing various things. Is it that people who are better that time management managed to do this are there people who are better that building networks across ecosystems who are good at doing this who are the people who can manage career 3.0 well. Well I wish I was earning the kind of money as it sounds from you when you talk about me but I think one thing which I have personally realized is that tech really offers a greater opportunity to earn money and to kind of strengthen our position and in multiple ecosystems. So I think when people are looking for a 3.0 kind of a career where they are in multiple ecosystems and they want to make sure it's just like your traditional entrepreneur who's into let's say FMCG also but at the same time he's also into some kind of a industry to industry set up where he's kind of into mining or something else and not directly going to the customer. So you have these conglomerates who who are into various industries and a lot of these industries do not have synergies in that sense they are not complementary industries they are absolutely different industries in terms of the end products or in terms of what they are serving and they're thriving everywhere these conglomerates at the individual level it also becomes something like this and one of the ways I've found realized is that you must be able to understand how to use tech effectively especially if you want to reach out because you know your physical reach is always limited by the number of people you can meet or the area where you operate but tech offers you you know internet offers you the opportunity to like really scale up those numbers. So if you find ways of tapping technology to your advantage then you could reach a system or a situation where you just have to put out your stuff out there and then the technology takes care of it by distributing it by disseminating it by making sure it reaches out to a larger number and then it automatically starts getting monetized and you would find that you don't have to spend that much effort so I think in that case the brand building becomes very that build a certain brand which attracts across multiple ecosystems and people are like oh no this is very interesting and this person is saying something here also then that also is very interesting and let's go there also to kind of understand how to package what you're offering you know some medium you could do log form packages some medium you need to go you know shorter versions shorter consumable packages and then pitch it correctly and then once you've kind of get the hack of it you can go into these multiple ecosystems because you know exactly what system wants what you've been asked to brand and then you just put across your stuff and the medium itself the technology itself takes care of it you know you start reaping also I think the other important thing is to understand how IPRs you've been a poet as well and I would love to have you recite some of your poetry for our listeners you know so it'll be great if you can you know recite something for us sure absolutely this one is called a plane landscape in order to exist you must be on earth on a plane landscape rooted at a spot from where it seems all earth does is converge to your being to your standing skill the sky is a very giant caught on the rock foot shedding a load off his shoulders in order to exist you must be on earth on a plane landscape with no shallow pits no open caves no revines no rifts no ridges no crevices not even human architecture no prose poem or memory not even a tittle tattle tale because to enter an opening a doorway or a text means to exit you're gone you cease to exist thank you beautiful that was lovely and thank you so much I'll just read one more which is more like Hindi one is it okay if I read the Hindi one sure yes of course well it's called etihaas ki karar ye baat sach hai ke sab yahudi ho se nafrat nahi karte thay kuch mokha paras thay keval satta ke sath hi dekthe thay kuch low blalaj ki hor meh sif lootne ki chah hakti thay kuch majboor aadeesh anusar bataye rah par hi jalsakthe thay kuch rose marra ke bhawar meh bhasay apni rai tak nahi rakthe thay to kuch rajnaitik chakal ka ek daar aaj kuch kal kuch aur samasthe thay par afsos etihaas ki kagar par ye sab janafrat nahi karte thay eki laghi se naap hi jate hain sab naadzee kya laate hain thank you wow wow what does the future look like when you think a couple of years ahead what are you thinking of doing what are the plays you're working on talk to me about that to be very honest I think the future is pretty bleak because you know I see climate change happening I see and all these wars that you're looking at around us I mean eventually these are wars for resources and these are wars to exclude as many people as you want and only a handful of people really want to have their hands on these resources so I think this will aggravate as we move forward situations become tough I don't know where he will all be in this scenario as of now I want to tell stories that I want to tell I want to tell stories which possibly sensitize people to what is happening around us I want to tell stories about what sensitize people about our own understanding of who we are as human beings maybe create something which if not transformative is able to affect people to a degree where it compels them if not changes them it compels them to ask questions to themselves and to those around them and you've done a play about Sahid with Yannvi right by keeping track of poets tell me a little about that work it's a new play that we've done it's called it's written by Meera Ali Usain and Himanshu Bhashbhai I mean these are two friends of mine I basically got a script written by Meera Ali Usain by Ali G. Kolabita Talwar who runs this organization called Arts for Causes and she said she felt if I could make something out of it when I read the script I felt it needs a little more because Ali had written it as a monologue in first person and I felt Sahid being such a complex enigmatic personality you know I need to bring in other voices to make it a more 360 degree kind of a presentation on his life so I went to Himanshu who was Dastan on Sahid I'd seen graciously these gentlemen agreed to give me a card blanche on their script so I chopped, edited took portions from one and just structured the whole thing into a play and we opened in September to a grand success and now we have the new year lined up which shows in Bombay, Delhi and Hyderabad including a show at the National School of Drama's Bharat Ranma Utsap the annual prestigious theater festival and we are excited and we are hoping that the size is such a grand life and such a fearless speaker of truth that we are able to do justice to the great poet and bring his life on stage to people and maybe people will go out of the auditorium more curious about Sahid and perhaps if nothing else then at least look for his songs on their playlists What is a dialogue from the play that has stayed with you if I were to ask you to sort of say that a line that encapsulates this kind of, you know How was it? I was sure that the land that I had since the last two years since I have learnt it now it is time to break the chain I was very poetic and beautifully written and also one line that I stayed back where one side's poor and I am impoverished poor, poor, poor poet friends comes and he is not able to help him and he is where he kind of takes off his coat and gives it to his friend because he can't really kick him any money he also doesn't have any money and he says at the end of it I decided I didn't want to be poor and I think, you know and that line just simple but comes with so much conviction I decided I didn't want to be poor Which translated roughly means I decided that I don't want to stay poor Yes, yes and fair enough I mean he rose to great heights both in terms of his popularity and fame and also in terms of the money he earned He was one of the most powerful writers of his times and Dhanesh it's we are coming up to the art and I just want to say thank you very much and wish you the very best for your career as a performer as a storyteller as an actor and the career three-dollar life that you are needing I hope it will inspire many more people to wish you this kind of a combination Thank you so much for being here Thank you Abhijit Thank you for getting me on the show I hope you know your listeners enjoy our conversation and I look forward to connecting with you again Look forward to that


by the time you know Jeff was also we were both managers there was a the shifts had grown quite a bit there was and there's a lot of turnover in that business you know we hire a lot at the time we hired a lot of college students show up work for a while quit no big deal right this circle of life we try to make the job as easy as possible so that even if someone had no technology could come in and very quickly get up to speed and start taking calls but uh because of this rapid turnover uh sometimes there was poor communication on the management side sometimes employees would show up for their first day be like oh well i don't have your paperwork i don't know well let's get you started in the system you get him going one day this dude showed up was like hey i'm here for training neither of us was working on this day was a another manager was working it was like oh uh well i don't have any of your hire date or your paperwork like well let's just get you started in training and everything started the training started him taking calls and it wasn't till payroll was get the next payroll was getting run that i think it was bernie yeah who was like running the payroll was like hey who is this guy he's not in the system we can't pay him because we don't have any of his information so then they had to retroactively put it in and then later uh he admitted that yeah he he just showed up and said he'd been hired and said he was here for day one of training and brian was the manager didn't catch it and was uh and so we just he hired himself yeah and uh he promoted himself to level two yeah same same way he was he's a good employee he also he also here comes here comes a crazy here comes a crazy twist he also played donut and red versus blue that's how we met that's how we met dan got he hired himself at the call center and we were like oh that guy that guy's a go-getter this is insane hey guys we hope you enjoyed that episode of the roosterteeth animated adventures if you want to see the full video where the clip from the rta a came from it's linked right below me or if you have an idea for a clip you want to see be made into an rta a there's also a link in the description of this video thanks for watching


What type of numbers do you need to put up and do you know them? Do you understand them? Are they in your heart?  I'm telling you what? I'm an analytical guy. There's a lot of people that aren't but to it's be successful to hit goals to achieve your dreams You must know your numbers. What do you need to do weekend and week out as a final expense agent? I believe you've got to be running and setting at least 15 appointments week in and week out and there's a lot of other agents that say hey that number should be a lot higher But I guarantee you the average agent sees Two to three people on a weekly basis and not even consistently So let's start by setting 15 running 10 and hitting those numbers And then you can improve your numbers and start seeing 20 or 30 people a week But know your numbers know your statistics how many out of how many out of how many people once you set How many do you run out of those that you run? How many do you sell? What's your average cell? What do you plan to do week in week out consistently figure it out and achieve it and I promise you It will help you become consistent and you will end up doing better long term than you ever thought you could