Fundamental principles of freedom, rational self-interest, and individual rights. This is the Iran Book Show. Alright everybody, welcome to Iran Book Show and this Friday, January 19th. Sorry for the irregular hour. This was supposed to be early in the day show but you don't need to know. But it didn't work today. I figured I'd sneak it in in the evening so that we wouldn't leave today without a news roundup. I know some of you depend on this for your news intake for the day. I wouldn't want to deprive you of it. I'll jump right in. Sadly, but not surprisingly at all. We are seeing defeatism sneak into the discussions of what's going on in the Middle East by both Israel and the United States. Israeli intelligence officials have for weeks not been saying, well, Israel can't really win. They can't really achieve their goal. They should stop trying. They should stop pretending. And here we're not talking just about Biden officials, political officials. We're talking about generals. We're talking about intelligence sources. And I think this is true throughout the American intelligence community. There's this sense that victory is impossible after all. They were the ones who bought into the fact that the victory was impossible in Afghanistan and Iraq. Why should victory be possible for Israel? With regard to the Houthis, we're already seeing both the press and experts and intelligence sources and military commentators and former generals and whatever saying, well, there's nothing really we can do about the Houthis. The only way to deal with the Houthis, the only way to deal with opposition, the only way to deal with the bad guys is negotiation. We have to negotiate. We have to come to a political solution. There is no military solution for these problems. Even in Israel, a member of the war cabinet, a former IDF chief of staff who sadly lost his son in the fighting in Gaza last month. But a former IDF chief of staff, one of the people in my view responsible for positioning the IDF to take the beating that it did on October 7th. You know, him and Gantz and Gantz who might be the next prime minister in Israel. He went on television, I think yesterday and said, whoever speaks of absolute defeat is not speaking the truth. That is why we should not tell stories. So you can't win. Defeating the enemy is impossible. Stop talking about absolutely defeating Hamas, eliminating Hamas. It's not possible. We won't do it. We haven't achieved it so far and we won't achieve it going forward. It's just not possible. I mean, again, not surprising. But the reality is that the West does not know how to win a war. The United States has not won a war really since World War II. Israel has not won a war, really won a war, I don't know, since 1973. Maybe you could argue it won the war in 1982 in Lebanon, but then lost. They don't know how to win. And part of it is that they're afraid to acknowledge what it would take to win. A lot of people will die.  As much as Gaza is devastated now, it would have to be even more devastated. Winning means bringing the Palestinians to their knees, humiliating them. Winning means destroying the Houthis' capabilities to wage war. Not a few cruise missiles are not going to do that. A sustained, a sustained, ruthless campaign abomin' the Houthis could. So we've lost the ability, the capacity, the willingness, the moral confidence to win. And you're already seeing it. I predicted October 7th that Israel would not do what's necessary. It's done more than I expected. It won't do what's necessary. And it's clear the United States is not going to do what's necessary either. To do what's basically needed to protect the shipping lanes in the Middle East. They will, in the end, fall to the Houthis. If they fall to the Houthis, they're not going to fall too. But of course, America just folded to the Taliban. So why not to the Houthis?  America will just fall to anybody. And Israel, it looks like too. Of course, Israel's folding bears much greater existential risk. And I think what we're going to see in the months to come, Israel will have done enough to sustain short-term peaceful existence. It's the long term that worries me. It's the long term that Israel is going to be challenged with. All right. Let's turn quickly to the primaries, the Republican primaries. We'll be hitting, we'll be arriving in New Hampshire next week, New Hampshire primary. New Hampshire is the one place where Nikki Haley seems to have some chance of maybe beating Donald Trump. She will get a lot of the independent vote in New Hampshire, in New Hampshire independence vote in the primaries. But the reality is that if I had a bet right now, Trump will win New Hampshire. And I think win New Hampshire relatively easily. And I think much bigger than that is the fact that in South Carolina, the state that Nikki Haley was governor of, the state you'd think she would have in her pocket. She's trailing Trump dramatically, significantly. And Tim Scott, the senator from North Carolina, is now endorsed Trump. And this is the sense in which the Republican Party deserves Trump. I mean, now I'm all in on Trump should be the candidate and the Republican Party should lose big as much as I hate to say it. The Republican Party needs to lose big because of Tim Scott, you know, relatively moderate kind of nice guy, reasonable guy seems like. If that part of the Republican Party is so scared of Trump as to jump to endorse him, then the Republican Party is hopeless, completely and utterly hopeless as a protector of anything, of anything. What is it protecting? Donald Trump, Donald Trump and whatever he feels like doing. I don't know how anybody can trust this party. I don't know how anybody can trust anything that they do. I mean, Trump is the nominee that, you know, with Tim Scott endorsing Trump, Nikki Haley is basically finished. DeSantis is already finished. DeSantis is skipping New Hampshire. He's he's been, you know, down in South Carolina trying to trying to increase his numbers over there, but he's way behind in South Carolina. Tim Scott could have endorsed DeSantis if he didn't want to endorse Haley. But he didn't. And if if Trump loses, and if Republicans lose big in the House, let's say, they will have nobody to blame. It's not a binary choice. It was never a binary choice. They had an opportunity to elect lots of alternatives to Donald Trump. It's not binary at all. Trump did not have to be the candidate. And Trump is not better than Dems. Trump is worse than the Democrats. He's much worse. His respect for the American system of government is beneath contempt. And it's lower than the respect any Democrats have, or at least the Democrats that are likely to be in power. He is just as bad as Democrats on the economics and worse than Democrats on foreign policy, worse than Biden on foreign policy. So you will get what you asked for. You will get a Biden Trump choice. And I think it's so likely that Trump loses that choice loses that choice. And Trump loses. And it's also likely that Trump brings down the Republican Party in the House and maybe even in the Senate where they should be winning big in the Senate this coming round. And then you'll blame me because I didn't support Trump. It's unbelievable, unbelievable that this is the man that the Republican Party is choosing to run for president. Unbelievable. Talking about choices in Republicans, Republicans and Democrats are getting together to try to hash out a deal about the border. The Republicans have basically said, look, we're not going to vote, we're not going to give Ukraine any aid. We're not going to give Israel any aid. We're not going to approve aid to Taiwan unless you settle the border dispute, unless you settle the border dispute.  Biden has actually caved on a lot of them that will dramatically restrict the ability of people to come into the United States, beef up border security, turn people away at the border, reduce the number of people entering the United States for asylum dramatically. On pretty much every front in at least in a short run, Democrats have caved to Republicans and are willing to give it to them. And I think if the Senate had a vote for this, I think they would have an overwhelming majority for this border bill that includes aid to Ukraine and to Israel. And this is where Trump is worse than Biden, because Trump is vehemently opposed to this bill. He's placing huge amount of pressure on the House of Representatives not to begin to vote. He is, you know, he is opposed to compromise on the border. We know why because it takes away an election issue from it. Trump loves the idea of millions of people entering the United States illegally right now so he can make a big deal out of immigration. But what if this proposal, which turns people away, cuts down on the number of immigrants coming through the border? What does Trump run on? And Trump opposes giving Ukraine aid. Now just that, in my view, should make him ineligible to be president. He wants to cut a deal with Putin to give Putin, give Putin, hand Putin over. Oh, pieces of Ukraine. And he will refuse to give Ukraine aid in order to cut a deal, make a deal. Despicable, disgusting, and I think anti-American self-interest. Trump is, ultimately, would be a lackey of Putin. I think a lackey, ultimately, of Xi. And it's terrible in the foreign policy. But the point here is, there's a deal on the table that actually gets, I don't know, it doesn't get everything Republicans want. It gets maybe 50%, 60% of what Republicans want on border security. When Trump wins, he can then, by executive order, get the other 40% maybe. And yet, they're going to kill this deal and therefore kill support for Ukraine and Israel. Because it doesn't serve their political purposes right now. It just doesn't. Oh, Trump is much more of a lackey than anybody else. Anybody else. All right, let's see. All right. So, the Senate might pass this bill. The Speaker of the House of Representatives so far has said, Johnson has said that he will not bring it up for a vote the way it's constituted now. They're still negotiating. It's hard to tell how this plays out because there's a lot of politics involved. But the fact is, Republicans got Democrats to cave. And they're not going to get their way because Trump needs this as an election issue. Talk about Republicans, Democrats caving. You know, Johnson came in and said, Speaker of the House, he said, you know, we're going to have spending bills. We're not going to have these extensions of partial spending, holding spending the way it is just to keep the government running. We're going to have spending bills. We're going to do this properly. Since he said that, he's brought a vote and managed to get across with the help of a significant majority of almost all Democrats. A number of extension, budget extension deals and no spending deal has been passed. None. The, you know, the conservatives, I don't know, the wing of the Republican Party supported by Marjorie Taylor Greene, represented by the woman who thinks they are space lasers run by Jews. This insane woman who is now a make America great again, I guess, you know, a spokesman and symbol of their political might. She is really upset a GOP leadership about not sticking to cutting government spending. And which they should, of course, and, you know, they opposed the continued resolution, but the continued resolution was passed with the help of Democrats and with the help of a significant number of Republicans, the right wing of the Republican Party voted against it. They would like to see, you know, they would like to argue that they should be spending cuts without telling us actually what those spending cuts would actually entail and where the spending cuts would actually happen. It's when you're in that position, it's really easy to yell cut spending, cut spending challenges when you get into power of actually doing it. Republicans are notorious for yelling cut spending, cut spending when they are opposition, and then when they are in power, spending, spending, spending, spending, spending. Anyway, the spending bill to extend government spending and not to shut the government down, the continued resolution passed the House, passed the Senate is now law. And we delay any talk about a government shutdown until, until March, when the continued resolution runs out. And we have to figure out again what to fund in the government and what not. I expect you'll probably have continued resolutions without an actual budget, basically, until the end of this, until the elections. Congress has no interest before an election to compromise and to actually cut a spending deal. They won't shut down the government because I think neither party wants to actually be responsible for the government shutdown. But they won't do anything substantial in terms of cutting spending or anything dramatic one way or the other. They'll just keep on funding the government like was funded last year without making any decisions about actual changes to the funding structure. Typical cowardice of politicians, particularly in an election year. All right, this may be bad news for Donald Trump and good news for Biden. Surprisingly, surprisingly, when you look at polls regarding the consumer sentiment, what's called consumer sentiment, how optimistic or pessimistic consumers are about the economy. This is a fairly good predictor of, you know, the economy. And of course, the economy is a fairly good predictor of how people will vote. Consumer sentiment is on the uptick. Consumers becoming more and more confident about the economy. They are, they kind of, I think, over the shock of inflation. Inflation, of course, has come down significantly towards the end of the year. Last year ran at a 3.0 something rate. It's probably going to be below three this year, which is not that dramatically outside of norms. The labor market, as I've been telling you all of last year, has been solid. People have money in their bank accounts. Consumer spending continues. Recession fears seem to be fading. It seems like the Fed has accidentally brought about what everybody calls a soft landing. And as a consequence, consumer sentiment has gone up 29% since November. That's the biggest two-month increase since 1991. Wow, since 1991. That is a long time ago. Basically, people's mood is increasing and that bodes well for the attitude towards incumbent politicians. Now, whether that plays out exactly that way, we're still a long way from the election. There's still another 10 months to go. But this should be a data point, just a point. That you cheer Democrats up, because I think that if consumer sentiment continues to rise and gets back to kind of high levels, which had existed, consumer sentiment was quite high during the Obama administration. But during the latter part of the Obama administration and then during the Trump administration all the way until COVID, consumer sentiment was very high. If it gets back to those levels, it's hard to believe that the incumbent loses. It's possible, but it's hard to believe that they do. So I think Democrats are going to be watching that carefully. Again, the numbers in terms of economic growth all suggest that the economy is in pretty good shape. And many items, people are complaining about or complaining not that long ago, about $6 eggs, $6 cartons of eggs, eggs are down back to $250. So we forgot the eggs inflation has been negative over the last period. And I think that's starting to show up in sentiment. People are seeing prices are not increasing that much. Prices are stabilized. In some cases prices have gone down. Some prices are still going up. But it's just that shock that I think people experienced primarily last year. Prices just going up in huge leaps and bounds. Much of that is disappearing. All right, finally, a story from the magnificent state to the north of us, Canada. Oh, it's a country. Sorry, it's not a state. I thought it was a state. A country of Canada. If you remember a few months ago, we did a show on the story out of Canada, where Jordan Peterson had been accused of being insensitive and using words that were not becoming of psychiatrists. And the College of Psychologists of Ontario had ordered Jordan Peterson to undergo remedial social media training. In other words, sensitivity training. Now just think of this. Jordan Peterson and the College of Psychologists of Ontario in order for him to preserve his license as a psychologist wanted to send Jordan Peterson to sensitivity training, to remedial social training, to reeducation camp. Jordan Peterson appealed this decision to a court on Tuesday, a panel of three judges with the Ontario Court of Appeals dismissed Peterson's motion. And so first I went to the Ontario Divisional Court. The Ontario Divisional Court appealed the authority of the College of Psychologists of Ontario to basically deny Peterson a psychology license unless he went through this training. They said they had their power. And now the Appellate Court has said that they agree with the original court. In other words, Jordan Peterson now has to make a choice. Go to remedial social media training or lose your license. Now Jordan Peterson is very clear which one of those he's going to choose. He's basically said, look, I'm independently wealthy. It's not like my income depends on my standard of living. My quality of life depends on any way I'm being a psychologist.  There's no way I'm going to training. And he has basically said he's not going to. And he will continue the fight. It's not clear how he will continue to fight. But he said that he intends to win this fight. And winning for him means that the College of Psychologists, the board of the College of Psychologists will ultimately apologize to him and resign en masse. I'm skeptical about whether that will ever happen. Not because I don't think Jordan is completely correct here. He is absolutely correct. All my disagreements with Jordan Peterson put aside, I will fight for his right to be insensitive. And I'm against licensing laws anyway. Suddenly. And the College of Psychologists should not be granted by the state and authority to declare who can be a psychologist and who cannot. And I will fight for his right to fight to deny them. And yet, I don't think he can win this battle. It's too entrenched. The powers to be are too entrenched. I mean, to fight this, to win this battle would mean the College of Psychologists doesn't have that power to decide who's a psychologist and who's not. That would change too much of the existing licensing regime. Certainly in Canada with implications for places like the United States as well. So sadly, Jordan Peterson is likely to lose this campaign, which is sad. It's horrible. It's horrible that Canada has reached this kind of sorry state, sorry state that it's obviously in. All right. That is the news. There wasn't a huge amount of dramatic stories. Nobody was bombing anybody new today. The same people who were bombing everybody yesterday were bombing everybody today as well. So there wasn't anything dramatically new. And North Korea claimed to do some kind of atomic test underwater. But I just don't know if there's anything there to really talk about. All right. Quick reminder, this show is funded from the support of people like you. You guys make this show possible. There's no show without you. We have our targets for each one of these shows. And I think I put on the wrong target here. Yeah, I did. I did the evening shows because it's evening instead of one of the news roundup, which is 250. So please consider supporting your show if you're listening live, if you're watching live right now using the super chat or a sticker. Sticker who reminds me I should thank TZ. I should thank Steven. Steven just did a $20 sticker. Thank you, Steven. And I should thank friend Harper and Jonathan. We also have a new member who joined your own book show members Christian Klein here on YouTube. You too can become a member as well. Just click on the membership button below. Yesterday was funny because we had a bunch of Indians who couldn't figure out how to use the super chat but didn't want to use the super chat but complain bitterly on the chat about it anyway. So one of the huge benefits of the super chat is you can ask questions, which means you get to guide the direction of the show. You get your topics discussed. So please consider using that. Please consider making contribution. We're a little off from a goal for the day. So please consider making contribution. There are almost 100 people watching live. Some of you, you know, it would be great to see you. Many of you to see you contribute. If all of you contributed, that would be amazing. Amazing. All right, let's see. Of course, there are people here who... Anyway, super chat. Oh yeah, reminder. I've got to remind you that the Iron Man Institute is a sponsor of the Iran book show. Right now, they are taking applications for the Iron Man Conference in Austin, Texas at the end of March. And they will be taking applications for scholarships until January 31st. So you've only got a week and a bit to apply. The conference will be held in Austin. Ben Baer and Greg Salmiere will be the primary professors at the conference. You will get to spend some significant time with them, delving deep into Iran's philosophy. It is a great, great place to, you know, a great place to study these ideas, to meet other objectivists, to interact with some of the philosophers of objectivism who are going to be teaching there. And I don't think it's based on youth. It's based on your interest in, you know, really digging deep into Iran's philosophy. Of course, you can also apply for a scholarship, I think you can still apply for the Iron Man Conference in Amsterdam at the beginning of March. So yes, please consider going to einran.org. Start here and applying for your scholarship. Don't miss out, it's a great opportunity. And look, if you get a scholarship, it's all expenses paid. So it's worth the effort of applying. And of course, if you come from the Iran Book Show, it might give you an edge. I don't know, maybe, but definitely tell them that you came from here. And that'll really help. All right. So don't forget your einran.org slash start here and apply. All right, let's see what do we want to do? We want to answer super chat questions. Cool. A query from Australia. A series of questions. Let's start with this. What was learning about history like for you in the beginning stages? I'm thinking of studying self-teaching. But the amount of people, dates, events, and periods seem overwhelming at the moment. At the point where I have, whoops, serious doubts about my ability to integrate. Did you feel the same way in the beginning? I have an overall basic understanding of the trend of history. Thanks ultimately to the philosophy course Dr. Pekov gave on the history of philosophy. Grease through all medieval modern contemporary. Along with an interest enough to watch YouTube videos on what life culture and governing was like in those periods. Are there any, whoops, I have to switch to over here. Begin a book, so begin a method approaches to study that you would recommend when wanting to dive deeper than just a surface level understanding of history. Certainly I think reading the ominous parallels by Lena Pekov is a must in terms of the integration of philosophy and history. So the integrating factors. I think then there's a number of different approaches you can take. And look, I have a hard time with dates, locations, events, periods, all of that as well. And it takes a long time to get it. And I still don't know the specific dates. And to some extent I don't really care. I know I have some general understanding of what happened at 13th century for each one of the centuries. But I probably get a bunch of stuff wrong and it's taking me a long time to get that. Of course, I haven't really, I'm not a professional historian, I haven't really done a proper study of history in the sense of getting to where I would know it, Pat. But if you're really interested, look, one way to do it is get, there is a series of books. Now this is a major, major undertaking. But there was a series of books by Will Durant. Basically, History of the World. From the beginning, pretty much still today, at least through World War II, I think. Every volume is a period. I can't remember how many volumes there are, 15 volumes or something. It's huge. But it will give you the entire sweep. In reading those, if you did, I wouldn't focus on dates. Not in terms of 1223. Okay, this is the 13th century, or this is the Middle Ages. I mean, if you can get a prehistory, a very, very early history, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, Dark Ages, Middle Ages, Renaissance, right? What comes after the Renaissance? What would you call the period right after the Renaissance? God, I mean, in Otto's, Rococo, Enlightenment, Age of Reason. But generally, Age of Science, Age of Reason, Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution, 20th century. Then that's what you need, that categorization, right? You don't need the dates. And then generally, what comes before what? French Revolution, then Napoleon, right? And then the rise of nationalism in Europe. And then the unification of Germany, unification of Italy, nationalism, that makes sense, unification. Then World War I, right?  And you'll, I mean, if you read, I've never read the history of civilization, but Duant, which is all these volumes. Now, he has a condensed version, a one book version. You could start with that and see if you like his writing. But he writes not for professional historians. He writes not for the academics. He's writing for a general audience. Osav, what do I have of his? There's another few other ones. Duant, here's something. There it is. Yeah, he also has, this is an old book, but this is World Duant. He also has a history of philosophy, which is quite good. The Lives and Opinions of the Great Philosophers by Will Duant. So he's a very educated guy, did a lot of stuff. But there's also, I've got a book here, The Outline of History by H.G. Wells. The Story of Mankind by Van Lunes, Henry Van Lunes. And I wouldn't even worry about some of these guys are going to be, they're not philosophically going to align with you. But as long as they give you a scope of history, that is a lot. That is a lot. I'd also recommend books like The Cave in the Light, which give you a, you know, really from Greece till today. The Cave in the Light is a history book guided by a philosophical perspective, the influence of Aristotle and Plato on history. Now it's not pure history, but it's, it's motivating because it's got philosophy. It's interesting. It's integrated because it's got philosophy. And then it just pick up, pick up a history books that interest you about periods that interest you. See, I don't know all of history as much as I'd like, but I now know a lot more about the Enlightenment that I did before. And I want to know more about literally the history, right? The history of the Enlightenment. Van Lunes is very good. So these are books that are hard to get because they're old, right? So in the days where history was history, not just, you know, specialized, whatever. Look for books that have a theory, a scope of history. And sometimes you won't like the philosophy sometimes might be Marxist, a lot of historians are Marxist. It doesn't bother me too much as long as I know the bias and I can tell what it is. And as long as I can get certain sequences of events and places and intellectuals and influences, if I can get that, I don't need them interpretations necessarily. So, yeah, I mean, that would be an approach. Find a period in history that you find particularly interesting. I don't know, Greece, Rome, read up about it, read the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. And then there's a bunch of new books about Rome that have, and you'll find that different authors have different approaches to why Rome fell. That's interesting that they have different approaches. And you're going to have to figure out what makes sense to you. That is, there is no one definitive, unequivocally correct history. History is going to be in dispute always. We don't know exactly what happened. And causal relationships, the details of causal relationships in history are very hard. A very hard. See people already misrepresenting me. I don't want Biden. I don't want Biden to be president. Biden drops dead. I don't want Trump to be president either. That's the challenge you have. And I don't want Trump to be president more than I don't want Biden to be president. I think Trump is more destructive. So both are destructive. One is more destructive than the other one. I don't want to crack down on the border. Why does anybody think I want to crack down on the border? Or think the border is that important? All right. Graham says, just wanted to show my support. Thank you for your show. Thank you, Graham. I appreciate it. Most of the people on it. I mean, a significant number of the people here don't seem to be fans. All right. Yeah, if your main interest is Rome, then read up about Rome. I'd read up about Greece officially because you need the context for Rome. And then really dig into Rome, the Republic and then the Empire and the details and see, and then the rise of Christianity, which is part of Rome, the impact Christianity has on Rome, on its rise and decline. All of that is super interesting. All of that is super interesting. So yeah, read up on that in great detail. Become an expert on that and then go to the next area. And indeed, Durant has a book, just one book on Rome. Maybe even more than one book on Rome. Which one of my wars? I have several wars. Michael says, how long it going to be before people start having a positive sense of life again? It's so refreshing and rare when I meet an upbeat person in Good Spirits. A long time, I think. I think given the state of the world today, as reflected on my chat, it's not good. It's not good. So basically Michael, it's going to take a long time because a sense of life is based on deep conclusions that people come up to about the world around them. It's based ultimately on the philosophy of a culture. It's based on the self-confidence of a culture. And all of those are dramatically in decline. And the self-esteem can get, you're not going to get the sense of life without getting ideas changed without people having a certain confidence in the culture and confidence in their own life. The philosophy of altruism and collectivism and mysticism. And a culture of adoration of a thug like Trump cannot be a culture of a great sense of life. Something has to give. Something has to change. John Worth says, what is YBS specifically doing to increase its demographics among students who enter the INRAN essay contest? Well, YWAN book show is doing actually nothing for that demographic. I don't have access to the INRAN essay contest entrance. The INRAN Institute does, but I do not. The INRAN Institute pursue those students, tries to get them involved in the programs. Primarily, the main focus is to try to get them to read another INRAN book and then hopefully to get them to enroll in some of the classes and courses of the INRAN University. At some point, one would expect that if they're interested in INRAN, because they've entered an essay contest, they will also discover that the YWAN book show exists and that will cause them to listen maybe to a show or come to an event that I do somewhere and get engaged and hopefully that'll get them hooked. The reality is that the YWAN book show, if you look at my demographics, I'm pretty weak. The demographics are pretty weak. In high school, I have very, very few listeners, very, very few. I college eight students, a little bit more than high school, but still few. The demographics only really kick in as significantly at 25. And most of my listeners, well over 50% of my listeners are 25 to 45. That is the sweet spot for this show. And that is way after they've entered an essay contest. Even if they've been exposed to me before, they're just too young for the content that I'm producing. The content could be the fault of it. It's just the reality of it. The content that I produce is much more post-college, post-first degree. It's when you're starting to confront life both, it's when you are practically confronting the politics of life, but also practically confronting the goal setting and the idea of the stuff I do for life. But also just the reality of work and things like that, that my show seems to resonate with people. So well over 50% is 25 to 45. Graham says he's 23 and loves the content. No, there are lots of exceptions. And there are high school kids here that love the content. And I appreciate that. I'm just saying, again, 50, I can't remember. It depends on the particular month, but close to 60% are 25 to 45. All right. Michael says, I see you've been getting a lot of new trolls in the chat lately. This is great.  Yeah, I mean you could, yeah, I've always had trolls, right? They come and go. The names change a little bit. But basically they've always been here since I started in 2015. No, yeah, I started January 2015. I've had them. They intensify during election years because they hate my position on Trump. And some of them will go away because at some point they'll have enough of hearing my disdain for Trump. And you'll start hearing more and more and more TDS, TDS, TDS, because that's what people say when they don't have an argument. They just call your names. But yeah, and they can't grasp that my goal in life is not to defeat Democrats. My goal in life is not to defeat the Democrats. That's not a goal. My goal in life is to preserve liberty and to educate people about freedom and liberty. And Trump winning doesn't help me with that. Trump winning hurts my ability to do that, both the educating part and the part of actually achieving it. So, you know, I voted for Democrats. I voted for Republicans and I've not voted. And I think all three options are legitimate options depending on the election, depending on the circumstances, depending on what's going on. Vandy says, come on, Iran. Didn't you know that the goal of life, you should have capitalized life, is to own the left. He capitalized own the left. All right, yeah, you're right, Vandy. I apologize.  I messed up. I forgot. I forgot. Maybe we should support Trump. God, maybe that's the way to own the left. On the other hand, we could let the left win and then they'd get owned by the other devastating failure. That could be a better, bigger owning than Trump. But then that becomes complicated, right? That's thinking for DHS and we know Trump supporters can't do that. All right, thanks, Vandy, for the humor. Coke says, is there a parallel between Francisco's money speech and America's military power? Hmm, I haven't thought of that one. The most powerful military and best weapons can create any enemy, but it's useless if you don't have the will. And how's that related to Francisco's money speech? Everything is integrated. So it has to be related, right? I mean, it has to be relationship. Well, having a lot of money, if you don't know what to do with it and you don't have a sense of earning it, that is, you didn't make the money. You just have it. And you don't have the moral vision. You don't have the idea of what to do with it. The money is useless. The money can actually be something that hurts you. Well, same with military power. The current American regime, if you will, the current American government has inherited the mightiest military force in all of human history. The might of the American military machine is in a sense perpetuated by the military industrial complex, as it's called. And yet it's in the hands of politicians who do not know what to do with it. There's a deep sense in which they did not own it and they have no sense of what to do with it. They do not know how to win and they don't have the moral courage to win. So they've got a great tool, just like in Francisco's speech, you have money, but you don't know what it means. You don't know it's true value. You don't know how to use it and it makes it value less. And I think that's right. I think that's right. That is the relationship between the Francisco's money speech and this. By the way, I did an interview with Breedlove, the Bitcoin guy, Robert Breedlove on Francisco's money speech. You know, he did a reading of Francisco's money speech on his Twitter channel. It's a really nice video that he did for it. And then we did a whole discussion about it, which I thought was very good. You should check it out on Breedlove's channel podcast. I think you'll enjoy it. Michael Sander says, if you go on Jordan Peterson's show, you'll get to 50,000 subscribers overnight. I doubt that, but yeah, I'd love to go on Jordan Peterson's show. I'm trying to find an angle to get there, but so far, no success, but that would be ideal. I'd much rather go on his show than debate him. I want to go on his show and just answer his questions and go from there. So we'll see if that ever happens. I'm hopeful. Buster Jones, I noticed Palestine supporters in mass don't really look into why they support Gaza. The interviews I see are so emotional bound. Do you think that people could change their minds if they realize that land used to be desolate? I don't think so because it doesn't matter to them. The people who support the Palestinians, the people from the left and the right, but the people on the left too have kind of embraced, in a sense, the whole woke ideology, the intersectional ideology. History is completely subjective to them. History is not about facts. It's not about reality, and it doesn't really matter.  Who's successful, who's not. Who's rich, who's poor. By definition, strong, successful, rich, bad. Poor, unsuccessful, oppressed in some way, good. The whole way in which they view the world is oppressed or oppressed. Facts, they don't want them to get in the way. Now I think a lot of these kids when they leave college and actually have to face reality, and they strive to be successful, and they realize that it's not that fun to sacrifice everything they have for the purpose of some person who claims to be oppressed. I think at some point they grow out of it. They become human again. But until that happens, I don't think there's any hope. Right now they're in the clutches of an ideology that says all of history, all of current events, everything can be stood from this one perspective, the perspective of oppressor and oppressed. And that's all you need to know. If that's the way they think about the world, then it's very, facts are not going to get to them. So learning that the land was desolate and the Jews actually created the prosperity that is there, they'll argue that they exploited something, somebody, or they ruined the environment. I mean, it was desolate because there was swamp, no, not swamp, swamp is a non-PC word. You have to use wetland. The land in Israel used to be a wetland.  Who knows how many species went extinct as a consequence. They changed their environment, evil them. They built something on virgin land. How dare they? How dare they? So I think that it's going to take them getting out of the spell that intersectionality and the new left has on them. Michael, the UN appears to function solely as a dictatorship and terrorism protection racket. I mean, yeah, of course. I mean, it's got 200 and something members. Most of the countries in the UN are dictatorships. The number of free countries in the UN is small, relatively speaking, as a minority. And overall, even the free countries are not particularly proud of their freedom and don't advocate for it and don't claim moral superiority over the rest. So you've got dictators who are completely comfortable and confident in their mori upper-endai. And you've got the good guys who are lack confidence and lack authority and lack anything. And yeah, I mean, what do you expect the UN to be? It's an immoral institution to begin with. Completely immoral. An animorality is reflected by the fact that they will protect and stand by any dictator or terrorist out there. He else has explained the fall of Rome. For 30 Shekel, that is a big deal for 30 Shekel. That is for a long show. But I would say the outline of it is there were basically two corrupting forces that undermined the Roman Empire. And of course, Rome was destined to fail once it became once it abandoned its Republican nature and adopted an imperial structure, an authoritarian imperial structure. And just think about the kind of emperors that Rome had from Nero and Caligula.  And that was the structure that they had created so there's no other way to get around it. So I think two forces undermined Rome philosophically. One is kind of a new platonistic skepticism and cynicism. A knowledge that the world in some sense was unknowable. And you get this from the, what do you call it, from the God. The Sophists and the Greek philosophy. Anyway, a general skepticism and cynicism which led them to embrace cynics, cynicism, which led them ultimately to the Romans to embrace a kind of hedonism and in Nero's case, a real nihilism. But I think a lot of it is an issue of cynicism, a skepticism that leads to hedonism and leads to really not caring about the world. And that was a big part of, you know, the Stoics, thank you. I don't know why I could not get the Stoics. I mean the influence of the Stoics. But generally the influence of kind of non Aristotelian Greek philosophy that undermines knowledge, undermines self-esteem, undermines confidence and therefore makes them weak. And to a large extent I think that the Romans doubted their own virtue, doubted the value of their life, doubted the value of the empire. They wouldn't fight. They stopped fighting.  But basically this was kind of a neoplatonism that they embraced. And secondly, to fill the gap, the hole that in a sense the hedonism had created and the cynicism and skepticism had created in the Roman spirit, Christianity entered and, you know, Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. And Christianity is a religion of weakness. Christianity is not a religion that leads you to fight. Christianity is not a religion that encourages you to embrace life-affirming values. Christianity is a religion of weakness. It's a religion of sin. It is a religion of manners, meek and small. It's a religion of an afterlife and it's a religion that inculcates a mentality that is not a mentality that is going to fight for civilization. This is why Christianity cannot be the solution for the West because at the end of the day it's a religion that is by definition self-flaginating and in that sense it can't stand up to Islam. Islam is a religion, relatively speaking. Islam is a religion of warriors. Islam is a religion of success. And Christianity is not. It kind of embraces a warrior spirit at some point in the Middle Ages under the Romans but it can never do it wholeheartedly. And it struggles against Islam and it loses for the most part against Islam until late, until really Christianity has become less important and other things are more important and only in the 17th century does the Christian West stand up and defeat the Muslims for the first time and start pushing back against them. But that's late. That's late. Yeah, Christianity is still going. So is Hinduism. So is Confucianism. So is Judaism even older than Christianity. So is Islam and growing. So is a lot of religions. Doesn't make it good, doesn't make it right, doesn't make it just. So I think Christianity, which also embraced Neoplatonism but from a different perspective and Neoplatonism or the post-Plato kind of philosophies of Greece that were pessimistic, many of them deterministic. Part of the problem was that the Romans were convinced that they were declining, that they were finished, that they were ending because they bought into certain deterministic, fatalistic philosophies. Cave in the Light sheds light on this. So does of course the rise and fall of the Roman Empire although a lot of modern historians have challenged that book. The rise and fall of the Roman Empire basically blames Christianity for the fall. But a lot of more modern authors question that. But it's no question Christianity had a big part of it. I mean remember after Constantine, Christianity is the religion of the Roman Empire.  Carry on. Do you think the US has civil war in near future? No, I mean I've done shows on the civil war, on a civil war. You can look it up. You're on book civil war. You'll find some shows where I did about the upcoming civil war. I don't think so. I don't think either side is actually committed enough except for a few small groups of wacky nuts to actually pick up arms and fight. I don't think they believe in anything strongly enough. I don't think they're brave enough to actually take up arms and start fighting. I think when the fighting happens, you'll discover that a lot of people are really brave with words.  God, most people don't have the stomach for it. And a lot of people who are going to carry the flag and yell and scream and threaten and even carry guns with them. When it comes to actually using them in something like a civil war, it wouldn't have the guts. But more importantly than that, who's going to fight whom? Like, is Texas, which side is Texas on? Because the reality is Texas is 45% Democratic, 55% Republican. The 45% Democratic are, you know, they might not be quite as well armed as the Republican side, but they're well armed, they're smarter, they're, you know, they probably have better strategy. It's not clear who wins. And that's Texas, 45, 55. Who wins California? I mean, California might be more 60, 40, but the 40% Republicans don't mess with those 40%. So it's not like there's a line. It's not like the civil war with the South and the North. Red, blue, every red state in every significant red state has a lot of blue in it. Georgia has a lot of blue in it. Florida, a lot of blue in it. North Carolina, lots of Virginia. Are there blue or red? They might go one way or the other, but by a small margin. So what are you going to have battles within the state? I just don't, I just don't see it. Now it could be, yeah, you have a battle everywhere. You know, I just, I just don't think Americans have it in them. What are they fighting about exactly? Again, there's some fringe element within both sides that are willing to go and shoot the other side. But what are they fighting for? Can articulate that? Are they willing to go and kill other Americans for what? So I don't, I don't see it. I don't see it. Keep calm and crayon. Best U.S. president of all time, the worst. God, I mean best, I'd have to say George Washington is the best primarily because he left after two terms, the opposite of Donald Trump.  That I think qualifies you maybe is the worst. It is a tough competition for the worst because you've got Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt. And then, so those three, and then I'd say Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, all four are eligible for the worst president of all time. So those seven, I think are the worst. Maybe there was worse in the 19th century, but probably not. I think it has to be in the 20, 21st century, the worst ones. LBJ was nowhere near as bad as these. And so, you know, hard to tell which one of them is worse. Certainly Trump is up there, right? Certainly in the top seven. Probably in the top, in the worst seven, probably the worst three is Trump. Best, they're not that many candidates. Oh, the other one is for best is Grover Cleveland. I'm reading, I started reading, I haven't gotten into, I haven't finished it. Well, I barely started it, but I've started reading a biography of Grover Cleveland that seems really, really interesting and really, really fascinating. So I'm looking forward to really getting into that. And at that point, I'll tell you what I think. But so far, from what I know of Grover Cleveland and not from the biography from my stuff, he would make the top five as well. Nobody in the 20th century, maybe Coolidge would make the top 10.  I don't think it was great. I think it was good. One of the great evils of Coolidge is the 1921 and 24 immigration bills.  But, you know, so Coolidge is mixed, again, probably the best president of the 20th century. But that's not saying much. 20th century is mostly bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, worse. All right, John, happy Friday. Have a great weekend. You're on. Thank you, John, $100. That is amazing. Really, really appreciate that, John. Thank you. All right, Corey, this is one of the things that confuses me. Didn't Rome reach its greatest height under the Empire in 117 AD? Was this just a consequence of the Republic still having an effect? Yes. I mean, it is. It's a certain momentum. And what is, you know, what is the greatest height? The greatest height means the most land under control, the strongest military. Yeah, but, you know, in a primitive society like that, where technology and economics, that is, the production of wealth doesn't matter that much, you can go a very, very long way, even as an empire. So, you know, the wall of the mind, the need for liberty and freedom is to achieve political success as I think somewhat different during that period in today. Where everything is determined by technology, by economic growth, by military technology. You need free people because you need the mind. Rome didn't need it as much. But Rome was still benefiting from the momentum of the Republic. No question about that. And that's why it couldn't survive. And also, look, the bad philosophy took a while to filter into Rome, right? So while the Republic was abandoned, it still had some decent philosophy. It still had Aristotelian ideas influencing it, other better Greek ideas. And the corruption of those ideas takes a long time. And the infiltration of the more corrupt ideas takes a long time. And of course, the infiltration of Christianity doesn't really become dominant until Constantine, which is 32080, something like that. It doesn't have to one-to-one. The Republic goes away. It's just like, you can look at China and say, wait a minute, how did China grow so fast? It's in a authoritarian state. But you're not looking deeply into what's happening on the ground where there's a lot of freedom for the entrepreneur. You have to be able to look at the right level given what's actually going on. Christian, what do you think about the Federation plan? Sounds better to me than the dead horse of two-state solution, Swiss-style Federation for Israel Palestine? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good idea. I think, look, any solution is not a solution unless the Palestinians are thoroughly defeated. And the whole state of mind is changed. And the whole philosophy of life is altered. And then once that happens, there are lots of solutions. Federation is a great idea. But the Palestinians today could not have a Federation. They would want it. They would undermine it. They would use it as a platform to aggress against Israel. It just wouldn't work. So the exact form by which the conflict is solved in the end, it doesn't matter. What matters is the ideas that the Palestinians hold and take into the future, into whatever that solution happens to be. Jason says, save the Republic, defend free trade, defeat Trump in the primary. Hooray to that. Sadly, super unlikely to actually happen. I think the Indians showed up again. I think my Indian fans all showed up again. All right. Have a great weekend, everybody. I will see you tomorrow. Tomorrow, two shows tomorrow, two shows. One at 12 p.m. East Coast time. I'll be doing my show in Hebrew, which I was supposed to do Thursday. We got delayed Saturday. So we will do the show in Hebrew for the Israelis among you. The Hebrew speakers among you will be tomorrow at 12 p.m. East Coast time. 7 p.m. Israel time. 7 p.m. Israel time. And then at 2 p.m. East Coast time, I'll be doing a show on David Guggen. Guggen's? David Guggen's. What we'll be doing in the show's title is David Guggen's The Pursuit of Value. So we'll be talking about what's good and bad, the good and the bad and the ugly of David Guggen's. So join me for that show. It should be an interesting show. I think a positive show because we'll be talking about values and how to achieve them, how to attaining. Even when I'm negative about David Guggen's, the show will be positive. So please join us for that. It should be a lot of fun. And Vandy says, do a show in Hindi. In Hindi. To capitalize on your new Indian fan base. If only I could do a show in Hindi. That would be amazing. All right. I'm waiting for my Indian fan base to figure out how to use Super Chat. And as soon as they figure out how to use Super Chat, this show is going to the moon. Talk to you soon, everybody. Bye. Have a great, great weekend.


woman There is something called the AIS. We have ordered all these things. Let me take the track version. All these things. All these things. Every navy of every country in the world gets these things. All these things. The moment a vessel enters your territory, water, this thing goes here. The moment any vessel, even from like 1000 miles from your port, the girls here say they come. All these things they take on the track version. You see all those green, green things. Now vessels the way they come, the place where they density the fa. But this thing don't catch them. See them they come. Now all these things. All these things. All these things. Now things with the track version. This particular one now. This one is called GPS. Global positioning system. Then the other one first show now. This one is called. This one is the AIS. Automatic identification system. Now there is. You see all these things then. There is another one. What are they called? Long-range identification system. Long-range identification tracker. L-R-I-T. Now there is no our way. We're sheep. Sheep of this magnitude. Sheep of this size. Going to Nigeria. Load crude oil. Sail out without being noticed. And they tell us nobody know when they come. Nobody know when they go. You understand me? Already the moment any ship does the approach your territorial water. You understand but to say nobody know when ship come go. Nobody know when ship come go. Custom don't know when ship come go. Tell those things to the dust now. You can't be talking to people as if say we did dafts. As if say we will be fooled. So when people will be saying our government is still oil. Nobody. Now according to Vangard in the clinical analysis the Labour Party candidate Mr. Peter Obie gave the gerrying account of Nigeria's dare economic strait that triggered grave concern. He said that out of all the OPEC countries only Nigeria was not meeting its supply quota while all the countries were angling for more except Venezuela due to sanctions. On the Labour Party candidate summarised that using an average exchange rate of 550 naira this amounted to in excess of 1 trillion loss in the month of July alone. He revealed that 1.6 trillion was Nigeria's January to April income while it incurred a 4 trillion expenditure resulting in an over 3 trillion deficit. Now Peter Obie declared that this was not oil bunker but official stealing not just by ship in territorial waters. The question we are asking today is, is the Nigerian government stealing from herself. That's a question. Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation send us an SMS or whatsapp to rate 1 8034663. You can also do that as a wish or after one with a hashtag wish shown. Alright so I saw the post when this video was first released online where they said that NMPC had revealed an illegal connection line from one of its major oil export terminals in the sea that had been operating on detected for nine years. This is supposed to be a four kilometre pipeline right which typically exports around 250,000 barrels per day of oil. And you know so you saw the video, the video connection from Extravot terminal this time from the Focardos deep sea illegal connection referenced in that particular story. That was the first story that broke around this oil theft. So I kept saying to myself because I saw how they were taking off the mud from the pipeline with shovels and all of that because the NMPC guys they've been there and all of that. And they've been visiting wearing their rain boots and looking for you know like like Rambo. You know somebody said that they was that explorers name that they are looking for you know. So in my head right I think that was what brought this question right. Is it possible because I mean it was funny about I love that his quote that says that if something lasts beyond 24 hours if insurgency lasts the government's hand isn't it. So how can we and that's why we have to bring this video. So for people that not even understand when they say that there's oil theft right oil theft does not just happen with kegs. It doesn't happen that I still crude oil and I put it in this cup and I'm going and hide it is not because people don't see it. These are like structured theft that happens that they are moving this crude oil in big vessels. So how on earth right would it not sound ridiculous for you to tell me that the government is unaware that these things are happening. So let me hear your thoughts Chinelo then I'll come to you Mary. So I don't understand why you wake up and tell me that there's a pipeline of four kilometers and you're not aware.  It's not possible. We just saw the video right and then you know he said when the vessels are moving they have an AIS. Of course. So how do you tell me that if vessel that large picks up what's one point something million barrels of oil and is moving and nobody is aware farm.  Okay Mary. I think maybe we don't understand. People are probably striking deals. Yeah. And so it is organized thefts. It's not a real boys that are going.  Yes there's no way that you tell me that the government is totally unaware. So when they want to bring up news. Say okay guys how far is your own story. And then that's what comes out. Because to be honest there's no way. Same goes for either. Customs or NDA. Even the NDA that they are busting say somebody that is snitching. So maybe you didn't pay one person well or you know something goes wrong. They leak your story out. But as far as I'm concerned is organized thefts. Absolutely. And you know this man that they just gave the oil pipelines to God was his name Tom Polo. He had accused the federal government that they were actually the one the federal government security agencies. They were aiding crude oil theft. You know that was his claim and he said that he had a comprehensive list of those that were involved in this theft. Right. If we had a serious government given that crude was supposed to be or could he supposed to be one of the major revenue generator for Nigeria. I mean I watched a video Dubai to the last drop. There's a massive screen. The guy was taking one of I think the one of the CNN reporters I can't remember who went there. I was telling her how from the ground all the way to your car. They monitor every single liter everything is going. So we are not even first of all we're not even refining. The only way we will make revenue is selling this raw crude and yet you then wake up as a government. Do you even want how do you expect us to trust or believe the government. And again. This is a long problem because if we have we have said we have even they've done discovery right. How do we even begin to solve this problem. Let me hear your thoughts. When you first saw the video of them uncovering because they were pretending like they were just discovering for the first time. So let's agree with them that they are just discovering it for the first time that they didn't know that those pipelines existed. But when you saw that what came to your mind. I guess I'm just a very cynical person because I mean first of all we're paying an obscene amount of money. What is it four billion for this security of our said pipeline. Then one is another problem on his own. That's why I said let's let's just be clear because you know when we're talking about whether we're stealing from ourselves. To me it's a commute point you know if you are paying to fix a problem that you shouldn't be paying to fix you are already stealing. Where's why you won't get to the crew. You're already stealing. I find it difficult to comprehend how we are not able to protect a limited number. How many whatever number of kilometers these pipelines are that our entire security infrastructure in this country is unable. This is not the whole of Nigeria. This is a very small part of Nigeria in the Niger Delta that we are unable to protect even without being a specialist. It sounds wrong. So when you then start to justify it. I mean I find it interesting. You know to me this is like I said I'm cynical. I feel like all of these stories that are coming up now is simply to justify the fact that this four billion narrow is working. Because we could ask the question that why is it so expensive and perhaps you don't even need to still let's just pay people off and say they're doing something. And then these stories start to pop up because guess what you're not there. I'm not there. All these magical videos are now popping out and we're all seeing all these stories. I mean like I said Nigeria just makes you question everything. But the reality for me is all of these claims all of these. We didn't steal. We are not stealing. There is theft. We need security. We need help. Our Navy. Our Army. We're not taking. I mean all of these stories. I almost want to say you know guys I'm just here for the popcorn. Can I just. Honesty. Honesty. Honesty. Honesty. Honesty. Because when you stop to think about it everybody that I have heard speak on this issue. I am here. I mean what was it yesterday was like we found 42 points along again a finite number of kilometers of pipeline and we have found 42 points. Is it that this thing is being done by invisible people and invisible vessels and we just go whoops. Look. You know. It's like you travel down the road and there's a crack in the road but nobody noticed also somebody started paying somebody 4 billion and then all of a sudden crack one crack two all the way to 42. Oh my God. I think. What is it? Don't carry the matter go another. No now. So I get you. So you are trying to say that it's possible somebody is trying to justify why they are being paid because we actually questioned it. When the government said they were hiring it on Polo to guard the pipelines against oil theft right. Everybody was questioning why pay so much because it didn't make any sense. Really if we had our the guys that work watch the pipelines usually is the army the Navy Navy guys right. So why do we have those security personnel the security agencies and still would hire a glorified because now he catches them. And hands them over to the same security. So there was a story about the Navy destroying the vessel again from an environmental point of view. How do you destroy a vessel on the water that's carrying crude but that's the story for a different day. But when you see these things you are just like like literally start watching a movie and you know when you're like the person that wrote the script come on. I really had that thought just now. I feel like you know a movie should actually be made. And forget it. Yeah these people are so smart thinking about it. They are so smart because before you think of the next mode now they've given you motive. Okay now let's say to Polo this for billion. But you know we have to defend the for billion. So how we do. Okay we'll find about you know three just keep finding say our working you know next one. Now the story will change. Give it another couple of months. You bring out another strategy again. You forget sweep it on that carpet. The plan continues. People who are making me a bit worried now. But it's the truth. So how do we begin to solve this problem. Because we cannot continue to say that this is the rhetorics and this is a story that we get from Nigerian government. How do we as a people begin to hold them accountable. I remember that a particular government I won't mention them just came into power. So the reason I knew about this deal is because I was inside the deal. I was supposed to we bid it for the farmland take take on that farmland right. And we are done everything. We even gone to the state to go and inspect the farmland. And it was because it tied nicely to what we're doing. We are what's it called palm farmers right. We plant palm oil I mean we process palm oil. So it was a palm plantation that the government wanted to sell. So they had done everything. It was owned by a government right. They had done everything and they decided you know what. They didn't want to sell it. They wanted to do a PPP. So we bring in private farmers to come and man the farm. Then we just give them returns. So most of the farmers bid it for the thing and everything. So all of a sudden it just went quiet. A new government comes into power. The next thing I saw a massive headline. Different papers not even one. So they will spend money. They say XYZ government just acquired new farmland. They didn't even make the mistake to add an extra acre to it. It was the exact same acre exact same farmland. I'm wondering like why this thing you already own it. So why are you acquiring something you already owned. So I'm saying to you guys that so yes this is happening. Do we then keep quiet as a government to say okay we're not talking anymore. I mean as a people. And we say we are not talking we should just let them be. Because whether we like it or not this is part of why we do not have development in this country. That's why it will continue to happen because again we too are not even trying any way to hold these people accountable. So where do we find a solution in all of this because now we cannot just talk all the problem. I will not go find solution. Because I don't know what she wants us to tell you. How you have been holding the government accountable up until this point please tell us. Let's go on a break. Let me go talk. I'm here to ask you a question. You are here to answer me. I just you know rhetorical questions if you want to ask them. So let me ask my viewers right. It's obvious that Nigerians it seems like the Nigerian government or the government officials or whatever. They keep on stealing from Nigerians right resources and everything. How do we begin to hold our government accountable right. If you believe that they are stealing from themselves. But if you do not believe that they are stealing from themselves. Please explain what it is that you think is happening with the pipelines. Stay with us. Alright thanks for staying with us now. If you just tuned in it's our ladies night out. I want to say out. It's a very heavy question in my heart right. We're asking is the Nigerian government stealing from herself right. Now please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or whatsapp to<PHONE_NUMBER>3. You can also tweet at us at weishuafqa1 with a hashtag weishu. So this question is actually a very obvious question that we know the obvious answer. But we will pretend not to know the answer and get people to just talk. Now beyond this oil theft. When we talk about government and we talk about the bloated nature of government. Don't forget that from the analysis that was read. There are some services. There are some payments you are even making that you're not even earning that money. So that's already putting us on a deficit according to what Peter Albi had said about 3 trillion deficit. That is even on one hand. When we even say okay yes we are in a dire situation in the country. Shouldn't we see some level of. Some level of piping down in terms of government spending. To say okay you know what we are in a critical situation. Let's find a way to first of all cut off all our or block all our loopholes. Right. If this has been going on for nine years. What is the government doing? It's beyond just you carrying rain boots and touch light and say you're going to go and shovel. You know like when I saw the NFC I said what is this. It's beyond this. This pipeline links to somewhere. So who are the people that they have named to say okay. This has been the source or this has been the connection. There's a source and there's an end points to this pipe. If you're really serious that you are just trying to pretend like you're discovering this. Why are we not seeing people being already arrested to say you know what. These are the companies that are being that is plugging to this place, this pipeline. No but they are arresting people. Why are the people they are arresting? No please read it for me. They have arrested people. They have arrested them. They have destroyed them. What are they arresting people? They are arresting people and handing them over to the security officers. The other day they destroyed cocaine. They burnt it. They set it on fire. But they are. You are being sarcastic right now. We all read the stories. They are finding this point. And they are arresting people. But is that how to find. Oh I didn't open the phone lines. Our phone line is now open. Sorry. Please the number to call is 070-25-0077-49. I didn't open the phone line. I'm sorry. I want to hear your thoughts because me I'm upset. Today is nothing. I don't even want to talk too much. Just tell me. 070-25-0077-49. Remember please turn off the volume of your television set when you are calling. So I get it that they are arresting people.  Why do you have to burn it? Because now every single time there is a situation like this. You didn't hear or fire got in one building. Where all the documentation is supposed to be. We are not tired of all of the things. I'm just upset. You can't just be upset. And we do too. Let's stay on topic. You said that.  You have talked about the current situation of crude and all. And you said you want to know how we should hold the government accountable. That's the question I'm asking. Who would like to ask that? They are bodies, right? It's a system. Who are the people in the bodies? They are ruling the bodies. Isn't all the same when I turn around? It's not going to come out. Look the reality of it is I think we just have to admit that you see these games all the time and we always think that things are supposed to happen in favor of the masses. But we've seen it time and time again that that is not the way things are happening. So if you are talking about the reality today we are losing oil. Not only are we losing oil. So we're not even meeting our quota. The impact is cutting has just cut production. And this is for all intents and purposes a major source of income as a nation whilst we are borrowing I shouldn't say excessively but we are borrowing to which this oil is supposed to fund. So in any standard 1 plus 1 makes 2 situation the government should be fighting tooth and nail to make sure that not one drop of crude is missing. So when that crude is still going missing to the extent that we are finding 42 points again along a limited length of pipeline then you know how when you watch cartoons there's a dot dot dot dot filling the gaps. The questions we're asking the things that we're talking about even if we're talking about just accountability who are you when you say oh you're holding accountable let's not even hold accountable from the perspective of fuel let's just hold accountable from the perspective of okay you are meant to provide security you are meant to make sure that certain things don't happen so that you don't even say that we are claiming that's where people are stealing because that was the problem with what Peter will be said right but let's just even talk about the fact that there is just deep seated failure across board if you have a navy if you have an army if you have security forces all these different agencies that we have and you're not able to protect a small section of the country of an industry then what are we saying now everything else is routine is it possible to leave anybody out of this theft in all honesty let's be very aware I think I have a small solution you have a solution for you the problem I just have is even if they want to play these games at least favour or small let's say that's your problem no but okay it can't favour you the system is not designed to favour you it's not so would we rather have it so would we rather have it appreciate that it's not designed to favour us we may begin to start to face a possible solution but when you expect that somebody is thinking of your greater good that's the problem Mia I'm only just saying at least let there be small good if you can even start from there because now the whole thing is a mess where do you want to trace it from do you want to take everybody in the government out and put new people because that's the question I'm asking in this particular incident now that we have seen do you think anybody is left out it is impossible for anybody to come to say that their hands are clean they don't know about it because this is a high level of theft it's not the kind of stealing that you and I will steal and that's why somebody has argued that in Nigeria if you want to steal still big because if you are stealing small money you are just wasting your time you are not in jail right because yes if you steal big that way you will be able to just come out with big money that is what we are seeing here because if you really want to look at this thing right nobody is left out if this thing is actually true and it's been there for years it means nobody is left out there's nobody that will come out and say that no my hands are clean I didn't have any part to do with this and that's why I'm saying that are we a joke as a country or what are we ready are we serious do we even understand that we have a problem and are we even ready to solve the problem so when people are shouting aid parties and all of that these are the real issues these are the things that affect us because currently this is the only revenue driver that we have as a country we are not taking other sectors seriously and if we are seeing this level of decadence that is happening and this level of corruption in this sector then what then happens in other sectors I'm upset let me calm down so Mary was trying to find the solution Mary was trying to find the solution but Uti said the solution is not going to work but Uti where do you want us to start from in all of these things because if we say that if we say because where she was coming from where I think I understand her conversation is about let it even let it even find a way to say okay have a heart when you are even stealing the stealing is that not the conversation where you are going and you say that we should not expect them to have a heart why if they had a heart we wouldn't be having this conversation the conversation would be dead on arrival so that's it because that's what it is today I'm tired I'm not talking again it would be dead on so again you don't expect that anybody is going to do anything fantastic for you the accountability that we do not have the accountability in our security services the accountability in our justice system all of these people that are being caught now what's going to happen are they going to be let out are they going to go back to the business as usual let's not forget that the person doing the catching right now was the former leader of MEND it's like a vicious circle so when you ask that question I don't know what the answer is to the solution I just don't like us to say we have like wishful thinking and we hope and we pray that yes but the reality of it is are there failures before you even get to the point of is there what's it called are we stealing from ourselves let's just even hold the people that have just certain jobs accountable can we even start from there but even that we don't have because if we did we wouldn't be but you see OT so why we cannot hold the people that have certain jobs accountable is the fact that the people that are supposed to hold you accountable they are also eating so as you are the stew you still see the stew dripping from the person's mouth so the person cannot hold you accountable so that's why the person will look away when you are stealing because I am also eating and part of the stealing I was in a meeting with someone today she said see as soon as she was promoted to this neuro nobody can come and say that this is because her hands are clean every transaction she's done she's in a position to make a lot of money but every transaction she's done she's done it so transparently that nobody can say oh I used to court a deal with this person so she's able to face anything squarely so the reason we can't even solve the problem of corruption or this theft that we are seeing in this country is because every one of them there's nobody that we can point to now that their hands is not deeply involved in this isn't you and I their own what's he called vessel or what do we own so every single person across that value chain they are all guilty as far as I'm concerned let's take comments the government is not stealing from itself the people doing the stealing are security men people in the community NMPC staffs and the IOCs for your information most of the pipeline belongs to the oil companies example the one that was just discovered belong to Shell Oil Company another comment says the stealing has been going on for the past 40 years it's just now the government is doing something about it oh my god hi I'm Stanley the government is definitely stealing from itself but in the real sense of it the persons it's the persons in government that are stealing so they are stealing from themselves what you saw in Dubai I think he's trying to say it is now being done in Nigeria please well well go ahead hey good evening ladies let me say one thing you cannot give a rat a fish to keep the problem of this country is firstly leadership until we get someone that doesn't and we will not have his hands sold in shading deals by these problems by these problems will never end the pipeline that runs from Niger Delta to Kadena has not been giving attention these discoveries were only in river states the army the navy civil defence all of them that work to guard the pipelines know about this including the top mining staff of the oil installations and NNPC itself okay so this is from oh Bobby Kennedy in Jalingo in Taraba State it says it can take up to 18 hours to load a very large crude carrier with crude oil the type used to steal Nigerian crude worth 700 million dollars monthly as illustrated here the only way this happens is if the federal government okay so cut there 75 billion is enough 75 billion dollars is enough to give us uninterrupted power supply pay ASU and reorganize our education call Nigeria and just get your PVCs ready go and collect your PVCs we have suffered for too long good to see you back thank you God bless you and others thank you so much over by Kennedy long and short stories that get your PVC and you see it's not just for us to find I don't like that narrative or get your PVC what I actually want is for us to start asking the right questions right let's not be carried away by the same old kind of campaign theatrics right what exactly is the plan because if we there was a particular company that I was privy to working in and when a new management came in the first thing they just did was they just blocked off all the cages they didn't even need to generate fresh anything any new customer anything where those loopholes were all they did was seal off those places and they had enough money to do things, pay staff and all of that so that's what we're saying Nigeria is blessed it has a lot of things but we are just I don't know how to explain it we are so we don't even know how to manage ourselves if Nigeria were to be your company would you run it the way you're running it as a government let me just steal my own and go the thing will happen after there was no consignment that's what we see our government doing good evening ladies I support OT to discuss another topic they are Cabal society society general welcome to our PMB giving political or not to over 200 unmerited Nigerians because of the coming election how about that that's another story for another day good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying we need a good leadership and not deceivers let us hold on to our PVC sister OT I missed you a lot you're welcome I'm still beautiful as ever my name is Daniel Illo you're always very very fun thank you Daniel so I get that argument about PVC do you think PVC alone will solve this problem of government stealing from us let me hear your thoughts then we wrap up the conversation I think we all should so when we ask the question about accountability I think we should all hold ourselves accountable one thing that I personally believe that Nigerians are not ready for is accountability because I gave the example the other day that I live on the street where if you leave home beyond 6.30 in the morning there's a lot of traffic and I see people big cars people that should be educated people that should know better forming three lanes, four lanes and then the little lane that is even left for the oncoming traffic they still block that lane so you know it's one thing it's a little bit hypocritical sometimes when we just focus on what percentage of the general population is the government let me take a call I think I believe hello are you there good evening hi good evening thank you for calling we take so late to call yo this is the youngest one are we there ah how are you I'm fine long time long long time welcome your laptop has not been and it's not helping yeah we apologize right here we apologize go ahead let me address you we have to become the last of this country don't allow the situation to get to you be in charge or be in charge yeah we try what we need to understand is that this thing is not stopping anytime soon I promise you that you know why the system still rotate around those people and they know they are safe now I tell you I don't tell myself say the money would be spent non normal and their income is non normal I know how I earn my money I know how I get one thousand two thousand they come to touch this in a month when this is a level of spending talk going on in this country you know that their money is non normal so for me I know that with time those people if they don't fade away if they don't change they will fade away because time heals everything but these guys have gone fast thank you if you really saw the address to that you understand that a lot of things is happening in this country and the more you look the less you see so they don't let them get to you you don't calm down gradually the messiah is coming soon by the grace of God so you coming now yeah thank you the sad thing is that we don't have that luxury of time that's the thing we keep saying that we have time we don't have time we keep watching the situation worsening over time and we have to tell ourselves on hard truths it's going to take you know when we hear the exceptional stories that have happened or places where changes happened we remember how bad that was before Dr. Durer took over so it is possible for change to happen in this country it will take exceptional people but if we truly want as we say if you're looking on the Twitter streets and you see everything that's happening now with obedience and all if we truly want the kind of change that we're talking about then you and I we're going to have to knock on down and we're going to hold ourselves accountable I think I have another caller thank you for calling hello good evening hi good evening yes I'm Peter calling from recording oh thank you Peter go ahead please yes I would like to put my contribution go ahead on the topic that we are discussing on I would like you to go and listen to this SPP presidential candidate about a central bank official during the during the past in one of the past that was reporting telling the president not to assign the oil source he did that at the end of the day the PDN official was that the bottom line is that you don't report the devil to the devil because in the process of exposing certain people you don't know the person you are exposing them to whether it's part of it and something might happen to one's job or life at the end of the day it's not that we don't know what it has mean in this country the project the issue is that who are you going to tell and the person that you are telling I hope it's not part of the thing that's the issue thank you thank you so much that's the thing who do you report it to because the people that so it is it is calculated so it's either you fall into line or you know because if it is a system that have put up a structured way to continue to just steal from the country then there's no end in sight as far as I'm concerned there's no end in sight and we say that we want to change the country let me take more comments we'll see let me get as in today not today I just weak okay so this one says good evening ladies I really feel pity for our nation when was the pipeline laid was it done by spirits security agencies pay so much bribe to be posted to man pipelines why do you think such happen now this is found and the government are not saying anything time has come for us to take our destinies in our hand I weep for this nation people are fighting to rule without having any clear solution they and their cronies want to share money I think time has come for us to stand and talk the truth you are doing great thank you so much and that's from BC thank you BC when the people in government steal they believe they are enriching themselves but they are daft to realize that there will be ripple effects on their kids and great grandkids do we believe in that thing in this country say karma will happen say whatever whatever goes around because it will never happen no but when you even talk about karma it doesn't necessarily have to be them we are reaping it all of us this conversation we are having now you are reaping how many words years and years of poor decision making poor accountability poor policies we are reaping it the sad thing about life is that not every time bad things happen to bad people so we say these people are doing these things or what happened to their kids I mean are we not seeing it their kids even in this country these are doing well so what are we saying now we should worry about ourselves not what affects their children and their grandchildren so in one quick word or one sentence what would the solution be do we believe that a PVC can actually change this kind of stealing do we believe so maybe if we have a favorable yeah maybe if we vote wisely or we have a favorable presidency just maybe just maybe that would be a lasting solution Mary do you believe that I don't think I believe it but it's a step it's a start it's a start towards change I'm happy about how we the youth are standing up at least it's never been seen you know at least even in our parent's generation so we're getting there it's not an immediate change but it's something for you to be able to stand up and say no to something it's it will come I believe it will come it's a start thank you thank you thank you Mary I've had a fantastic day I'm upset you've transferred your anger to me before we go I'm sure you follow us on Instagram that way sure Africa you can interact with us further drop a comment and more importantly follow all our engagements on social media like share and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation now if you missed today's quote here it is again when plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in the society over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it I think we're justifying theft we're justifying corruption we're justifying everything wrong right now in this country and we truly truly need something very different we'll see you guys tomorrow at 8pm so bring another great conversation to your screen enjoy


Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, can I firstly start in saying a few words to close this afternoon by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we gather, the land at which you've gathered over the last few days, the nun while people, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. Can also thank the organisers of the International Counter IED Leaders Forum, including staff from Interpol, for putting in much of the groundwork in developing this forum, as well as the Australian Defence Force and the AFP officers for their contribution to developing this program, in particular the efforts of the Counter IED Task Force and my own staff who have been heavily involved in the organisation of the last few days. Of course, without your efforts, this would not be a success and I thank you very much.  We've been privileged over the last few days to have a number of Australian ministers and their representatives also attend this forum and I'd like to particularly thank them for having made the time and to make this event a priority in their schedules, which we all know are very busy. I did have the chance to catch up with many of you, or some of you certainly at last night's dinner, and I've been very encouraged by the positive reaction that I've seen and the constructive developments that have occurred over the last few days.  And while we talk about last night, let's reflect on what a lovely dinner it was and what a wonderful venue the Australian War Memorial is for an event such as that. I must say I personally never tire from the opportunity to visit the War Memorial, to reflect upon the messages and to visit the halls that it has. It was also not lost on me last night that it marked 100 years to the day since Australian Lieutenant William Dartnell sacrificed his life for the lives of his colleagues in 1915. An act of valor that as you now know would posthumously see him awarded Australia's highest military honour, Victoria Cross. So with the messages from last night in mind, it is encouraging that we're able to come together here in such great numbers I must say to discuss the impact of improvised explosive devices and to develop tangible objectives and outcomes for all of us to work towards. Your attendance at this initial forum demonstrates recognition of the risks posed by IEDs, especially when they are linked with the growing threat we're all facing from terrorism. But what encourages me the most is the bonds that I can see that have formed between the military and the police particularly this week. IEDs have always been a threat but in many people's minds they have been a threat that was evident in foreign conflicts mostly and therefore a challenge for the military, not necessarily a threat in the domestic context requiring a police response. This of course as we all know is untrue but unfortunately it has shaped much of our thinking. From an Australian perspective the fact that our citizens are participating in offshore conflicts is not a new phenomena for us. Outside of the present conflict in Syria and Iraq in recent times Australians have travelled far abroad to fight in such places as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Bosnia, Somalia, Yemen and elsewhere across the globe. In fact between 1990 and 2010 we estimate about 30 Australians are thought to have travelled overseas to participate in training camps or foreign conflicts. Of those that have returned, eight have been subsequently charged and convicted with terrorism related matters. So while the world's focus at the moment however is firmly upon events in Syria and Iraq and in particular the alarming and worrying trend that is the foreign fighter challenge. The scale of the threat posed by those returning from Syria and Iraq is unclear. Many foreign fighters who travel abroad may well stay there, invested in the conflicts that they are part of. Others of course will become disillusioned and return home. But as the number of international foreign fighters increases so does the talent pool available to those who have interests in planning attacks further afield. Now the extent to which foreign fighters are seen as a resource to use in attacking the west or other countries will play a major role in shaping that threat. We all know that IEDs have been a feature of conflicts and terrorist threats around the globe for some time. None of us and I think what's been cleared for the last few days are immune from that reach. And while the term IED may date back only to the 1970s improvised mortars could date their origins as far back as the 16th century. This is a phenomenon the world has had much experience with but starkingly, starkingly insignificant success in defeating. Last night's address by Mr. Ashley Eakins was both powerful and emotive. His reflection on the Vietnam War and the role of minefields and other forms of IED type devices played in that conflict left none of us in any doubt about their impact and their destructive nature. One in five Australian deaths, he told us, were as a result of the very effective deployment of those mortars and IEDs, of those mines and IEDs. So as leaders in our respective organisations, as leaders in our respective fields, as leaders in our governments and our communities, there was no other there was another powerful message from Ashley's address to us. He reminded us that misjudgments cost lives. In the Vietnam War case, he told us it was inability of our military leaders at the time to see the value in the use of explosive detected dogs that had they been properly deployed, may well have saved Australian soldiers lives. Now, of course, military and police leaders the world over have to make judgments each and every day. And of course, we know that lives depend upon the judgments that we make. The lesson, however, that I take from last night's address is that it is incumbent upon us, it is incumbent upon me, it is incumbent upon all of us as leaders to reduce the potential threat that our judgments are flawed or incorrect, because lives depend upon it. So that's why this week has been so important. Until now, intelligence gathered by field officers in response to IED attacks, in particular, IED attacks and conflict zones around the world have not always been available to law enforcement agencies. At the same time, law enforcement agencies have not always been able to share our intelligence with our partners in the military and elsewhere. Sharing this intelligence has at best been inconsistent and sporadic. This, of course, affects our judgments. Hopefully we've taken the first and most important step to address those judgments this week. This week, we've shared experiences, built partnerships, developed ideas that will all help to quell the impact IEDs are having around the world. The forum has recognised a significant threat IEDs represent in terms of experienced foreign fighters returning home with highly developed capabilities and dangerous intentions. The work done over the last two and a half days to develop a global strategy to counter IEDs will be invaluable to us all in addressing this aspect of the current terrorist threat. Closer engagement between intelligence, law enforcement, defence agencies, the private sector, supported, of course, by people in this room from the international agencies they represent is critical to ensuring that we can identify types of IEDs, that we can control access to the material that is used to construct IEDs, that we can limit access to information about IEDs and that we can identify and arrest IED manufacturers. All of that leading to a safer environment for all of our communities. We should view this and subsequent forums as opportunities to consolidate and build upon our collective knowledge and our capabilities to counter the growing nexus between IEDs and terrorism. I understand, and I've heard just now, that there are plans to develop working groups on a variety of topics with the aim of developing a global strategy to combat this threat. This, of course, is an admirable ambition. But to make it a reality, we need commitment. Positive steps that will ensure these plans are made meaningful and operational. I'm sure that the work of the counter IED task force, Interpol, our other partners in the room, other international organisations will be critical to the success and they will all work hard to build on the momentum that has been developed over the past few days and the goodwill created here this week. That is the challenge to us all, to build on the momentum that we have created. So before we part ways this afternoon, can I say on behalf of the Australian Federal Police and if I may, on behalf of my colleagues in the Australian Defence Force and I'm sure Interpol as well. Thank you for your attendance over the past week, but more importantly, your ongoing contributions that will start today. All up, this will help us achieve a greater understanding of IEDs, it will help us develop intelligence around their design, their use and their effect and it will help us engage in positive discussions to reduce and eradicate the terror associated around the world with IEDs. Your efforts are appreciated. Of course, one final word. If you are fortunate enough to be staying in Canberra or Australia over the coming days, please enjoy the wonderful weather we are putting on today. If not, and you have to travel back to your home, I wish you safe travels. I hope that we all do get back together in 12 months time and I hope that the last two and a half days have been everything that you had hoped that they would be. Thank you very much.