If you want to bring a guest into your Ecom Live productions using interview mode, but also want to have them deliver a presentation that's running on their computer, then stick around because this video is for you and it's also for your guest as well. Hello, welcome to Take One Tech, my name's Alec. And interview mode in Ecom Live is a really great feature and it's part of the pro level subscription. So there are two levels and pro includes the interview mode and also it includes virtual cameras which allows you to feed your Ecom Live output directly into applications like Zoom, Teams or whatever, wherever you would use a camera input. And that combination is really amazing for a number of reasons really and it brings me onto why you might want to do what I'm talking about today, which is specifically bringing in a guest who is then going to be delivering some sort of content like a presentation or whatever into your production itself. So why would you might want, why might you want to do that? Well, imagine you're running a virtual conference and you're doing it through Zoom and you've got a series of speakers that are all going to be coming up one after another and they're going to be delivering their slides and they're going to be speaking as well and they want to be on screen or perhaps you're just bringing a colleague in, perhaps you're using it over a Zoom call with some potential clients and there's one of you that is sort of running the show as it were and then you've got somebody else that is actually delivering some of the presentation or delivering the content. Then this is also another use case for that or perhaps you were just making some YouTube videos and want to bring somebody in that's going to deliver a presentation as part of that or part of your live stream or whatever. There are lots of use cases for it and it should become apparent why you might want to do this as we go through the process. But I want to cover specifically sort of three different parts of this. First of all, the first part of the video will be as the host, what do you need to do in order to get things set up and ready to go so that things all run smoothly but also speaking of things running smoothly, what do you need to inform your guests to do on their side in order to make sure that things are set up properly from their side so that things run smoothly from that side as well? There's no point you being all prepared and your guests not really sure how to do things or how to get set up. And finally, the last part of the video will be once the things are running, how you actually go about incorporating all of this and bring your guests in and actually go live or start recording with your presentation. So that's the sort of agenda for this video. So let's get straight onto part one which is as the host, what do you need to do to get things set up? So I'll come into demo mode. I'm not going to do a full overview of ECAM obviously because there's plenty of videos on my channel all about set ups and things like that. But I will just quickly run through what I've got open. So I've got my scenes tab open which is all the different scenes that I've got in my production. I've got overlays which are all the different sort of elements within those scenes. I've also got the camera effects panel which allows me to make some changes to my picture quality and things like that or add green screen. I'm using a fake background by the way. So there's that as well. And then over here on the right hand side I've got my interview mode window as well. There is other windows that you can have open but I've just kept all those shut so that we don't get confused. These are the four windows that I am going to be using for the purposes of this demonstration. So first of all, I mentioned that interview mode is a pro feature. You also have to make sure that it is in fact activated and turned on. So when you've got the window open, by the way, I should just say when you've got the Ecam live window open you can come over to here to activate. This one is the overlays. This one down here with two people is the interview mode window. This one with a magic wand is the camera effects because you can perform magic tricks with it. And then we've also got the, what we've got the scenes window as well which is just over at this top corner. You can also access these by going into window and then selecting them from here as well. As you can see, there are quite a few more other windows but like I say, I've just kept those shut for clarity. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to create a new scene first of all and as if by magic I've actually already got it started. There we go. Now what we're going to do with this scene is we're going to build out a scene where we've basically got the guest and the host together and also the slides that the guest is going to be presenting. So I'm going to start by coming over to my overlays window and then right down at the bottom I'm going to click this little one with the camera and that is going to give me a new camera overlay. So then this can be resized, moved around. And if I just come out of demo mode for a moment you can see that whatever I do with this image in that little window is what you will see on the output as well. So we're going to basically now sort of design a layout that works well with having two guests or sorry, guests and a host and then their slides. So let's come back into demo mode. Now how would we do this and get this all nicely proportioned? Let me think if only there were a free template that you could get somewhere that would help you with this. Well fortunately there is and you can download it from my website. I'll leave a link in the description below and this template that I've created is basically just an image. I tell you how to use it at the download page but basically it is just a grid that you can then use to align all of your little objects on the screen. So I've lined this up with the top corner. I'm just going to change the aspect ratio. I think this would be a bit big and wide to fit in the screen sharing later. So I'll come over to the little pencil icon here. Gonna click on that. And then here we can change the shape. Incidentally, I am using Ecam Live version 3.9. Did I mention that already? I don't know if I did, but if I didn't, I'm mentioning it now. I made a video all about it and I'll leave it in the top corner. And basically with this version as well you can add sort of rounded corners as well. And then also you can change the border size at the border width as well of this camera overlay. So I'll just put that to about there. And by the way, this is one of the game changing. It really is a game changing feature of Ecam Live because it means that you no longer need to look at doing graphical overlays or things like that to make these borders. You could just do it all within Ecam Live. And I absolutely love it in case you couldn't tell. So if you come up to the shape though, this is what we're actually here to do. I'll come up to the shape and then I'm going to change this to be a custom shape. And then if I just drag the corner, now what I can do is let's make this a quarter of the width and a half of the height. By the way, this grid pattern is basically just splitting the scene up into the white lines are quarters and the halves, quarter and a half. And then the red lines are thirds. And then there's also a couple here dotted lines for basically eighths or sixths. And this just basically gives me a bit of versatility in terms of where I can place things and the different sizes that I might need things but allows me to line them up perfectly. And you'll notice that the lines aren't exact sort of splits. They have got these little gaps between them, which basically gives me a little buffer. And you'll see what I mean. If I want to now add in my guest camera overlay, I can just hold down option and drag and that will be exactly the same size. And you can see that when I line it up with my little grid pattern, then now everything's all neatly aligned. And if I just toggle that grid off for the moment, you can see that we've got two nicely positioned boxes there. But at the moment, they are showing exactly the same thing. So I'll pop the grid back and make sure the interview mode is switched on. And then when I come into the camera overlay and click on the little pencil to edit it, what I can also do in here is change the camera. Now, if you've got multiple cameras plugged in, they will all appear in here and you can select which one. But if you've got interview mode toggled on, then you can also assign guest one, two, three or four because you can have up to four guests in interview mode. So I'm going to make this one guest number one. And obviously there's no one on the court at the moment, but when they do, they will magically appear in here. Now we also need to add in a space for their presentation where they're going to be sharing their screen. Now you could be forgiven for thinking that this would be done by using the screen share overlay, which is a new feature in Ecam Live version 3.9, but that applies to sharing your own screen as the host. When you are bringing in a guest and they are sharing their screen over interview mode, it actually comes in as another camera overlay rather than a screen share overlay. So what we need to do is assign a new overlay for specifically that use. So I'm going to hold down the option and I'm going to drag this again over here. And then we also probably want to change the aspect ratio of this because it didn't look right for a presentation. So I'll click the pencil again and I'll change the shape to be a widescreen like that. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to click the bottom corner and I'm going to drag that out to fill the screen or fill the width rather. And you can see that that's all nicely lined up with the grid. And then we'll just toggle that grid off now like that. And then now we've got a nice little space for comments in the bottom if you are doing this live. If you're not doing it live, maybe it's just going straight into Zoom or something like that. And you don't have to worry about comments. Then perhaps we could just hold down the option key, sorry, hold down the shift key. We'll just lock it in the either vertical or horizontal axis. So now that's going to be right. Keep the vertical position or the horizontal position the same. And then I'll just move it down and you can see that as I move it into the center, that little blue line appears with Ecam to signify that it is centered. So now I think that looks quite nice as a scene. So we've got the place for their slides here. We've got the place for the guest above and the host below. What I do need to do is I just need to change this assignment from the camera from guest one to guest two. Just like that. That's basically going to be obviously me, the host. And then the guest will be in this position, guest number one. And then the guest's slides will actually be in this one which is currently showing his guest number two. This will all make a lot of sense later when I've actually gone through the process of setting it all up. A couple of things that you might want to look at in terms of setting up interview mode as well. One to look for is if I click on the cog wheel here and then we go into the interview settings. There's some settings here whether when somebody rings, when somebody clicks the link to join, does it play a little ring chime which I have it doing. Do you want it to also auto answer guests? Probably best not if you shared the link and other people have it then you don't want people to just automatically come straight in. Do you want to send them to a green room? I'd recommend that. We'll see what's going to happen with that in a moment. And then also this one lower music and movie sound for guests when in off air audio mode. So that's basically if you are doing a production where you've got other scenes going where they're not actually on the scene and there's maybe music playing or intro or something like that. You want to lower that music just so that you can still talk with them back and forth even though it's not actually going out in the production. So that's what that one is. The other one that you might want to look at is the guest view which is basically what they are going to see. Now I'd recommend having this as broadcast which means the guest on their side will see whatever is going out live to everyone else or to the recording or whatever. But for the purposes of this demo I'm actually going to change this to be host camera just because it will save this sort of like infinite loop that would otherwise happen because I'm basically sharing the screen of the person I'm sharing with, if you see what I mean. So it would create that sort of tunnel vision effect. So anyway, I'm going to leave that one as host camera for now. There is other settings that you can do in interview mode as well in terms of adding sort of white labeling to it. And so that is done with this little cog wheel over to this side where basically you can change the name of the title of the page that will appear when you send your interview link. You can also add some branding in terms of a logo that will appear and the webpage. And then also you can add an image which is when you send the link out this is the image that they will see. For example, in the flow of messages or whatever. A bit like a thumbnail when you send somebody a YouTube video clip or something like that link. So those are a few other settings. You can also change whether you default to dark mode on their screen which you may want to do to stop any glare coming off if they've got a bright white browser. So you may want to default to dark mode in the browser. Show viewer comments and show viewer count which is if you are going live then do you want the guest to be able to see how many viewers there are and how many comments there are. And then also allow private chat. So you do have this option to have this sort of two-way chat between you and the guests as well. So you can enable that there if you want. Turn off audio processing for guests. I'm guessing if you're doing presentations this isn't necessarily applicable. But this one basically is if you don't want to activate any of the sort of noise cancellation effects and things like that, that are normally active with Ecam to give you better sound quality. You can check this box here and it will turn them all off. So you just get completely clean audio of however it's coming out from the other end. So, but I would recommend probably leave that one as it is, as not checked to for most purposes. So then when you've clicked save on that and then you'll normally have a little link here that you can copy. It doesn't show up at the moment because I'm in demo mode. But normally you'd just be able to copy that link and then you can send that link out to your guest. So what will the guest see on their side? Well, let's have a look at that shall we? But before we do, let me just tell you exactly what we're talking about here, which is Ecam Live. And this is the live production environment for Mac OS. And it's what I use to make all my videos for this channel. But I also use it extensively in business as well. It's a really powerful package that enables you to create far more immersive presentations and meetings and things like that and pitches for business. Then you would ordinarily be able to do in Zoom alone, for example. So it really just helps level up the overall production quality and you can just do it with the touch of a few buttons of the stream deck. So I highly recommend it. And if you want to get a free trial, then head over to takeonetech.io slash Ecam and get a 14 day free trial where you can try out all of the free features. And I'm sure you'll be hooked like I was when I first tried it. So that is what we're using to do this whole thing in. So let's go and have a look now as a guest what you will see from your side and how you will be to set up things from your side to make things run a little bit smoother and then how to actually get into the interview and so on. So here we are over at the guest's computer and we've got a little window into what's going on with them. And I'll just come on to this PowerPoint presentation to begin with, because when you play a PowerPoint presentation, normally go into slideshow mode, normally it will take over the whole screen and you'll just see the full screen of the slides. If you've got two monitors, cunningly, it will still take over all of your monitors usually because it will play the slideshow in one and then it'll have the show notes, the speaker notes and things like that in on the other monitor. If you are going to be joining Ecam as a guest, then you probably want to be seeing the interview window and the Ecam login window and things like that as well. So you perhaps don't want to have your presentation running full screen, although you obviously want to play it into the production. So I'd recommend using the PowerPoint in playing the slideshow in a window. And you can do this in PowerPoint and in Keynote. In Keynote, it's actually a lot easier because you just go up to the play menu and instead of clicking on play slideshow, you just do play slideshow in window. Whereas in PowerPoint, which is why I'm demonstrating PowerPoint specifically, what you need to do is if you come over to the ribbon and then along the top, click on the slideshow. And then in the slideshow ribbon menu, you can see this one here that is set up slideshow. So click on that menu item and then you'll see set up show, you've got the option as presented by speaker full screen or the next one down is presented by an individual in window. So that's the one that we want. And now what you can see is if I click okay, when I play this slideshow, it will magically play in a window. And now that this is a free floating window. So there we go. We've got our presentation now playing in a window. So let's just leave that one there. We'll just park that.  So it's just that it is playing now in a window. Okay, so I'm gonna go over into the browser now and here what we've done is we followed our link from our host who's sent us the link. And so now this is basically the place where we actually join the call. So it's gonna ask you to select a camera. And so you just select from the dropdown any camera that's available to you on your system. And then also you select the microphone and again, anyone that is available to you on your system. You'll also get the option here to put in your name. So just add your name in there. And then there is a link to join. And so when you click join, what's gonna happen is it will just say that it is connecting. And then there's a little sound that comes through on the hosts machine to let them know that somebody's trying to get through. So let's just come through to the hosts side for a moment. So I'll flick back to this screen and then let's come into demo mode. And what you can see is over on the interview window over on the right hand side, it's telling me that Robert is trying to join the call. So what I'm gonna do here is I'm just gonna click on the little green button to answer. And what happens is it sends them to the green room. If you remember, that was one of the options that we checked in the preferences earlier. So there's nobody has been added into our scene just yet, but we've got Robert waiting in the green room. So what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna click on the little assign button. Incidentally, if you have got scene set up where you've just got one camera as the full scene, then this is where you could just add the person in taking over the full screen or add them onto the left hand side or right hand side if there's two of you. Personally, I don't actually use these ones. I always like to create my scenes in advance in the way that we've just done and then actually assign the person to a specific slot and that way you always know exactly where they're gonna go and it's just a lot easier to create, in my view, nicer looking scene layout. So we're gonna assign this person to guest number one. If you remember, and now if I click on that, you'll see that they've magically appeared at the top. Now, often if you are the host and you've got people joining your interview, presumably if you are the host and you're using e-cam and if you're familiar with it, then you might have quite a good set up and good camera set up and lighting and things like that. But sometimes, occasionally, I don't wanna be presumptuous, but occasionally your guests maybe aren't so prepared in terms of camera position, lighting and things like that. And so you may want to do some tweaks to their picture quality and their positioning and things like that. Well, fortunately, if I come down to the camera effects window, normally this would be just defaulting to your own camera. But what you can also do is you can adjust the picture of any of your guests as well. So let's just come down to guest number one. And then you'll see it as well. It's now changed from guest number one. It's also added their name afterwards. So you can just see exactly who it is based on the name, obviously, your guest entered on their side. So now we've got guest number one in the camera effects panel and we can make a few changes. So let's just see that, well, the sort of picture positioning, the quality is all right, but the picture positioning is not quite the same for matching my particular position. So let's come down to the zoom and pan and you just toggle the zoom and pan on. And then we could just zoom this one in a little bit just to get things looking a little bit more proportionate. And then we can move the position. I'm just moving the window you can see here. I can just move around anywhere. So let's get that positioned and we look a little bit more in proportion now and perhaps a little bit more balanced. Obviously, this picture quality is okay, but if there was some issues with either too light, too dark, something like that or the color correction needed to be, picture color needed to be corrected, then you could do that with these sliders down here just as you could with the other one. But for now, that all looks fine. So there we go. We've got the person now in the scene, but we need to bring their slides in. So this is what we'd be doing from the host side. Let's head back to the guest side for a moment and we'll have a look from their side what needs to be done. So here, incidentally, you can see that the guests in their window, they are seeing the feed from my camera. So that's why they've conceived my face in here. If you remember, I mentioned that you might want to have them seeing the actual output rather than just your camera. And in that case, this is where that would appear. And you can see why that is useful now because at the moment they can see their picture, but ideally, rather than just seeing my picture, they would want to see the full presentation at the full output so that they can see what is going out, what's live. They can see when they're sort of like on stage as it were and when they're not. So that's why you would want that to probably be the actual output from the production. I hope that makes sense. So what they're gonna do now is you'd want to actually share the slides. So if we come down to this button here, we've got screen share. So I'll click on screen share and then you can share either the entire screen or they can share the window. So I'm gonna click on window and because we are obviously playing our PowerPoint in a window and you can see we've got either the Chrome, we've got to e-cam live is running on their computer. So yeah, and then we've also got the PowerPoint slide here. So I'm gonna click on that one and now they are sharing their PowerPoint slides. And what you'll see in their window is they've got their camera, but then also they have got the screen sharing showing down there just as well. Incidentally, there is a little button on the screen sharing. If ever they want to stop, they can just click on there to stop screen sharing as well. So now they are actually sharing their screen. Should we head back and see what needs to be done on the other side now? So now I am in demo mode again back on the host computer. And what you'll notice is we've now got an extra window has appeared in the interview mode. So what we need to do now is assign that to our guest number two. So I'm gonna assign that to guest number two and look at that immediately, the slides have just popped up in the scene itself there. Now you might find that you can see we've got a little bit of a browser bar depending on the exact size of the window that they've got on their computer. So you may need to just crop this a little bit. So let's just say I'm gonna come into Ecamm and if you hold option and then drag the edge, you can actually crop a little bit. So perhaps we need to just crop a little bit out of that one. So this is why you would want to get somebody ideally on a call just a little bit beforehand, just to make sure that everything is all set up. But now essentially that is looking pretty good, isn't it? We've got the guest, we've got the host and then we've also got the slides. And if I just reach over to my guest's computer and then move the slides, you'll see that basically it's just coming through as screen sharing exactly as you would expect. And so that is basically how you do that. One other feature that you might want to just have a quick look at as well, if you need to have any back and forth during the presentations is there is this little chat window down in the, oh, it's moving the wrong mouse there. Don't want to remove my guest's mouse. Down in the bottom corner here, we've got this little speech bubble which is basically the guest chat and that pops out this little interview chat. And if I just type a message in here like that, whoops, it can't spell. So if I press that, it's gonna send that message. And now if I just come back to the guest's computer, what you can see is, if I move their presentation out of the way, again swapping my mouse, you can see that it says hi, you're doing great and my message has just come through there. And then they can obviously send a message back and forth. So that is how you would do this in e-cam live and how you can share your, allow your guest to do screen sharing. And it's a great feature. It's really versatile. I mean, think about it for, like I say, virtual conferences, meetings and things like that. It is a pretty powerful tool that you've got at your disposal there. Now, if you found this useful, don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe to the channel. And if you found it really useful, there's always my Buy Me a Coffee page as well that you can find at buymeacoffee.com. Slash take one tech is the easiest way to show your support for the channel. So that's all for this video, but I will leave a link to some other great videos all about e-cam live specifically over on the right hand side in a playlist over at the bottom. And then at the top will be another great video that YouTube has specially picked just for you. So until the next time, have a great day.


Well, hello and welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad you're here. It's another episode. And today we have with us Katie Warnick, CEO at Staffing Boutique. And Katie, we're so glad to have you bringing us today, Recruiting Gen Z Strategy. So this is going to be an interesting conversation. You have a lot to share with us and we have a lot to learn. So stay with us. We also want to remind you who we are. So hello to you, Julia, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And thank you for creating this brilliant platform of the nonprofit show. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group and honored to serve alongside you, Julia, day in and day out as we have these conversations with thought leaders like Katie today. And we have also so much gratitude to our amazing presenting sponsors that allow us these opportunities. Like talking about the Gen Z community and the workforce. So thank you Blimering American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Nonprofit Thought Leader, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique, again where Katie joins us from. Nonprofit Nerd, as well as Nonprofit Tech Talk. And we like to remind you that many, if not all of these companies really, have been with us from the very beginning, March of 2020 and helped us to produce, ready for this, nearly 900 episodes. So we are marching towards that milestone. And if you missed any of our episodes, that's okay. We've got you covered, my friend. So you can go ahead and download the app to the right of this visual. If you are watching, you can scan that QR code and you can download the app. We also are still on the podcast platforms as well as the broadcast platforms. So don't worry, wherever you like to stream and really just absorb your entertainment, we're there for you. I still like to say, Julia, we're working on that hologram and who knows with AI, it might happen sooner than later.  And it's scary because those smart TVs are pretty big, but we will pop up on the screen soon. We'll be sitting in those sofas, I think, next to everybody. So yeah, you never know. Katie Warnick, founder and CEO of Staffing Boutique. We love when you come on the show because in the very beginning, Jared and I were like, how do we get these people to join Zoom meetings, right? And it's just like, we've, I feel like we've seen the phases of society through your eyes because you are engaged in labor and it's been fascinating and it's never the same when you are on. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice to have you both here at the same time. It's like the gang's back together. Right. That's right. Another tour for us. Well, Katie, you join us from the New York community. And as Julia said, you really do have your feet on the ground when it comes to the workforce, the labor force. So today we're diving deep in the Gen Z and the generation Zoomers, right? And so this is the generation that's born between the 1990s and the 2010s. So they are currently between the ages of like in their teens to the age of 25. What other dynamics, characteristics would you like to share with us when it comes to the generation Zoomers? Wow, there's a lot of characteristics. They're just, you know, one thing is their their ability to take technology on, I think is their biggest skill set. And we'll get into that later. But they are so used to receiving information so quickly and rapidly, right? So they really are digital natives. And we have to think from a recruitment perspective, which is what I'm always doing is how can we capture that audience as quick and efficient as possible. So over the past, basically, since I've known you all, we've worked on our social media to attract that talent, specifically because we do so much work in the substitute teaching space in charter schools. So basically getting our substitute teaching jobs out immediately and as quick and efficiently as possible. Because that's our target audience is those Gen Zers for those jobs. Wow. So that is fascinating, because I didn't I didn't really think of it that way. I was thinking more about their personalities. But the reality is how they access information and how they track it is absolutely fascinating. So the next well, if you want to talk about their personalities, I mean, I could make a few judgments. I do want to get into that. I do want to get but I've got to ask you this. Does this mean because of their their technology prowess and their technological mentality? Are they more like 24 seven? Like they're 24 seven, they're always going. They're also expecting instant gratification all the time, right? So they need constant technology technological reinforcement. So that's that like button mentality. You know what I mean? So they're always looking for some sort of correspondence back. They are always they're always wanting that quick reply. So I think that that shapes just their personality in general. They don't know patience. Okay, so you blow my mind because Jared, patience is like a guide star word in the nonprofit sector, right? Yes. You know, and I do say in the nonprofit sector, it's hurry up and wait, right? Like it's a hurry up and wait mentality. Gen Z is not a hurry up and wait, you know, generation. So they really, as you said, Katie, that that instant gratification. Let's talk up to like, are they interested in the nonprofit sector? Like I feel like we've had you on, right? And you've talked about some of the benefits that our workforce is looking for now, working remote, making a difference, things like that. So how interested is the Gen Z in working at nonprofits? So if I if you were to just ask me this, I would say very interested. I think that the nonprofit sector has done a really good job with just branding and reaching out and sort of like, as generations have occurred, more and more people want to get into the nonprofit sector, it's definitely become more well known. I think that when I've shared the story before, but when I started doing recruiting right out of college, I didn't even know like the nonprofit sector was a sector, I didn't know philanthropy was an industry, right? Like, and so I think that that message has definitely developed and been clear. In terms of, do they want to work at nonprofits? Where are they? I looked at some statistics, it seems like the polls from 2020 was at about 50% of Gen Zers do want to work in the sector, which is amazing. So when they are looking for their careers, they're not necessarily just looking for means of income, but they are looking for a way to give back back in some capacity. Amazing. So that's riveting because that changes so much of the landscape for how we recruit and what we think about the types of labor coming in, because Gen Z is a highly educated demographic. It's going to be like they're coming to nonprofits probably with a lot of education and bringing some of that insight that maybe didn't exist before, right? A lot of education and then also getting into the labor force post COVID, going through a lot of social justice issues on a public level, it seems that their interests when we're talking about the nonprofit sector are more specifically in social justice, education equality, healthcare issues. So things that we've really seen come out in the media quite a bit in the past three years, that's where the interest is. Well, and the other thing I've seen is, and I'm in my mid-40s and I say because it didn't exist, the nonprofit management school did not exist when I was going through my undergrad, right? This is accessible now to this generation. Many of these young leaders have achieved a nonprofit management degree, right? Like they are educated in the sector, which is fascinating to me. I love it because for me doing recruiting as long as I have, when I used to see a resume from someone who worked a college telethon or a fundraiser, those candidates were like gold to me.  And now we're being able to turn out and see those resumes more and more. And it's so important in my business and then for the sector in general. So it's great. Yeah, really interesting. So we've got a group of people that have a lot of potential, I think. They're more educated. They've been through a really interesting social disruption called COVID plus some other ancillary, we, Jared and I always say, pandemic's plural. You know, social justice, civil unrest. I mean, a discourse tone that's changed and really become much more vitriolic. So what is attracting this Gen Z labor force and what are they looking for to kind of help them make their decision of where they're going to work? So one of the first key points when pulled was technology. Is the organization or company forthcoming within technology? Like, have they evolved? So that was a big thing when pulled of what is attracting Gen Zers to organizations and companies. So I think that that's huge when you're talking to an executive director or a board member who still has the same software from 1998, you have to think about who is going to be bringing your organization forward and have you moved on with technology as the sector has changed, as fundraising has changed, as technology and fundraising has changed. It's going to impact who wants to work at your organization within these Gen Zers. You know, that to me is so interesting. Back to my, you know, hurry up and wait mentality and comment. You know, I really do still find that our nonprofit friends are the last to adopt technology and especially like new technology, right? Advancement in technology, efficiency systems, integrations, right? Like things like that. So that to me is really interesting. And I wonder, Katie, if they're also kind of being like put in a box of like, oh, great, you can be our IT person or you can be like you can always be our person because you have an affinity for this and you fit the you fit the, you know, description. That's interesting. I didn't even think about it that way, you know, but it's not a bad idea. You know, so many nonprofits that I deal with don't even have really IT. They have consultants that are outdoors. So it certainly opens up a specific job for that sector. Yeah.   Now, here's my iPad. How do I fix this, you know, type of a thing? And I'm sure to Jared's point, there's a lot of frustration with how everybody else is working and communicating. Correct. The second thing when pulled was diversity. Just having a diverse organization is huge. And then actually having strong diversity, equity, inclusion processes in place and living up to those standards. So that was the second thing. I think that that I can't say that that's specific to Gen Z. I think that that's really opening up across all generations. What I'm seeing that is an important thing when looking for a job. If you want to talk about that a little bit more. Yeah, I think that's fascinating because these are not necessarily people of color. These are people, you know, white middle class people that are looking at this, right? Right. Yeah. And, you know, I think I've used this example before on the show. It's like, so many people post COVID were like, we need to diversify our staff. And then you look at the website of the organization and all the senior leadership is white. All the board is white. And then they have an admin job and they say that they want to hire a diverse candidate. And that really doesn't help. You know, why do you want to have the admin, the person supporting be the diverse candidate, we need to start changing it from board, board level, and then the C-suite as well. So thinking about that, your branding on your website is that representing what your diversity strategy says it is. So I think that that's a huge factor. And then the third point was independence. And that just kind of goes along with the freedom, the work from home, the flexible hours, and all the things that we have been talking about retaining employees are super duper important to Gen Z. Keeping in mind that everything that they do is going to lead with technology. So essentially they can work from anywhere, whenever they want, and just being flexible on their demands. It's the management relationship. And we have a question from one of our viewers, Julia. So I'm going to pull that up now. And here it is, Katie. So as a manager from a different generation, instant gratification and the lack of patience part can be difficult to deal with. So what are ways that I can help my Gen Z employees understand I need a minute to process, a minute to think or to handle what they're asking as their request from me without making them feel like I don't care about that part of their personality and needs? And this is a fascinating comment slash question. It is. Yeah, I love it. What do you bring to this, Katie? Yeah, I mean, I think that that's something that I actually work on myself, both in my personal and professional life. I used to be super duper reactive upon anything. If there was a way to be confrontational, I would jump at it. So I think that coming from a different generation, people do respect when you say, I need a minute to process this. Let me get my thoughts together and I'll get back to you tomorrow. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. And I think people respect it. So whoever you're dealing with, get used to saying, I need a minute to process this and being candid, because most times when you react, it's not really your intention, you know, when you react right away to something, you know, you've given it no thought. And then you wind up having to backpedal. So I think that just being honest and saying that's this generation is sufficient. Yeah, you know, I appreciate your answer. I'll add to it just a little bit because I have a 12 year old going on 13 year old. And I will tell you, I often use the phrase, I don't care. And it's not that I don't care, it's that I don't want to give that my energy, but that word care is really taken to heart, right? And so I love that this, and they submitted it as an anonymous attendee, right? But really, like, how can I, how can I acknowledge this employee so that they don't feel as if I don't care? And so that word really spoke to me because words do matter with this generation. And I love, you know, really having that response that you said, Katie of like, hey, give me a minute, let me get back to you tomorrow. Or, you know, that kind of like standard response, I think is good to pocket. Yeah, always. I think it takes 24 hours to process anything, for sure. Yeah. Well, and especially in a time in the nonprofit sector where we deal with so many crisis issues, right?  A lot of us in the sector spend a lot of time responding, right, spend a lot of time working on strategy. And I think for those managers that came up through the hubbub of an active site, office, campus, program, programmatic centered world, to be in a desk or in a workspace where it's calm and it's different, they don't have, they don't link up, right? They don't sync up. And so there's kind of a different, I don't know, different sense of activity level and crisis response. I mean, it's just kind of a visceral thing, I think as well. I really, really do. You know, I want to jump ahead a little bit and ask you this question. And as a recruiter in the nonprofit space, what are Gen Z qualifications when a lot of them, they're not even 25 yet. And so how do we look at this labor market as somebody who we want to go after? I feel you, Julia, because I saw that question, I'm like, they have no skills. You know, I don't think I had skills. And so I was like 33, you know, and that was after working for 10 years. But, you know, you really do have to look at technology as their biggest skill set. And that's what they're going to bring to the table in any organization. And here's my thought process on this is I was just having this conversation with me with someone yesterday who started his own foundation. And we were just talking about the different level of donor engagement that we have to start rolling out sort of that 60 plus with money and mentality is going to this little way soon. So how are we attracting donors at different levels? And we're going to do that through our Gen Zers. So and when you're looking at that, I saw some statistics, I mean, Gen Z really can't financially give, right?  So when they do have the ability to actually give, they will and they'll stay with your organization. So I know that that's kind of a roundabout answer. But you really have to look at the technology skill set that they're bringing to the table, the new positions that they can create within your organization, whether that's the content strategy, the social media engagement, whatever it is, and really tap into their skill sets there. Because I guarantee 75% of organizations, even though that they have social media aren't using it correctly, and aren't engaging Gen Zers as their new target audience, you know, they're, they're engaging their old donors. Yeah. And social media is ever evolving, right? I mean, new platform just came out on Instagram. Was that right? Threads? Threads. Well, it's, it's part of, you know, meta. So it's, yeah, it's an integration between Facebook and Instagram. And yeah, to go up against Twitter. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. What about Katie? I feel like in this generation, many of them might be active throughout their college years, right? Like serving in a fraternity, sorority, maybe even taking on some leadership roles. And that way, are they gaining qualifications above and beyond technology, right, to bring to the sector? What, what does that look like? Because I do feel that, you know, they might not have the capacity of finances, but they do have the capacity of time. So how are they using their time to, I guess, evolve some of those qualifications for the career? I think that we have to really just look at it is, are, are they learning about volunteering in different organizations in college? I think that can kind of be across the board that whenever you see a resume with a volunteer experience or even internship experience, like that's a way better resume than someone like me who bartended through college. You know what I mean? So really tapping into someone's skill sets that they have developed. And yeah, using whatever that is for your organization and short time is certainly something. Yeah. Well, I think bartending, right? You've got customer service. You've got multi-tasking. You've got inventory. Like there's some qualifications in that. And you have drug people. You have drug people that you have to deal with. Sure, sure. I agree with you. I think that's where champions are born. I really, really do. That's another topic for another day. Because I think Katie bartended in my hometown, even though she's in New York City. That would never be easy. Hey, before we let you go, can we talk about the retention rate of Gen Z? Because I think this is a problematic thing for a lot of us. And I'd love to get your perspective on this.  That makes me sad. Well, I got to say, you know what, Dana's away and I'm doing a search right now and I'm looking at these resumes and I'm just like, oh my goodness, their tenure on these candidates is so bad. But I don't see it getting better. It's crazy. But I think that we really, if we're talking specifically about Gen Z and retention, keys to that is, again, all the things that we already mentioned, the work life balance. The skills development was big. You know, they do want a job where they can see where they're going next. And that's kind of that instant gratification thing. One thing I was reading, which I thought was cool was kind of like rotating, so like job rotating. So within an organization, taking someone that's interested in your organization and then having like a rotation program, or maybe they work in programs for a little bit and then they go to development or something like that, which I think is pretty cool to do if you can make that work in any sort of capacity. I think smaller organizations might be able to swing that a little bit easier. I thought that that was a cool idea. You know, professional development, those are all great things to do. One other thing that I read about was a VTO, volunteer time off. So because our Gen Zers are so interested in social impact and giving back, like actually having a program where they are off from work, but they have to do volunteer hours. And I think that a lot of corporations do have specific days like that that they require, but it's not necessarily as a volunteer time off. So looking into that a little bit more, I thought that that was a really cool sort of outside of the box retention strategy. Like that. I like to, and I feel like more teams, I'm seeing this Katie where the leadership is really advocating for this as a department, you know, like really how can we serve our community even if we are a non-profit, right? Like how can we also be of service to other organizations, partner organizations, other critical missions, you know, that make up our community. I think that's a big piece of what, you know, this demographic is looking for. Absolutely. I love that. I think that's a great point, because we always think about it's the for-profit community coming into our organizations, but I love that concept of saying, no, we can go out and be of service, you know, within maybe not even our sector. Maybe we do human services, but we go into animal welfare or, you know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think that's really smart. I really do.  I just wanted to say, you know, when we talk about retention, it's something that is so important.  So then if we need to really look at retention and then break it up by generation, you know, I think that a really smart human resources department is going to plug into that and the organization will be in really good shape. So it's really up to HR, small organizations, executive directors, board members, whatever to plug into that area of retention and really hone your skills over the next five years to keep with this audience, to keep with this generation. Yeah. And I would like to add to what I feel in our sector, you know, is if a leader, a young leader comes in and there's not advancement opportunity, right? We might lose them to another organization, but to me, I feel that it's our commitment to the individual into the sector, you know, let's get them to be the most amazing leader in our organization. They might go somewhere else and hopefully they're still contributing to the community. And I've seen them come back on, right? Like I've seen that same leader come back in a higher position that, you know, they go, they gain additional qualifications, experience somewhere else and then they come back. So I kind of feel like, you know, to your point, Julia, they're probably not staying 20 years because there's probably not advancement for, you know, opportunities for them. Right. And I think too, you know, people aren't taking, I know up to that age, I mean, people don't take you seriously. No. You said it, Katie, perfectly, you weren't really formed inefficient until you were about 33, right? That's what I feel. Yeah, I agree. I know, I kind of agree with that. So yeah, that's a hard thing. Well, I always, always learned something new from you, Katie Warnick, CEO and founder of Staffing Boutique. You're an amazing part of the sector because I kind of feel like you give us a heads up months before we really know what's going on because you're in the labor part. And so that's like one of the first things that starts to shift and change. And so I know that Jared and I've talked about this, when we feel like there's something bubbling, when we get you on, I think you kind of help guide us to where those bubbles are going to flow up and pop. So this has been... Banger on the pulse over here. Yeah, you got it, sister. I really, I love it. Hey, everybody again, if we hadn't met, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been with my non-profit nerd and your non-profit nerd, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Again, we have amazing sponsors and supporters that have been with us, most of these folks from day one, and that includes Staffing Boutique. We are so blessed to have the leadership and the support from Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University. Of course, Katie and her team at Staffing Boutique, non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. Yeah, check out Katie's group because they do a lot of really interesting things in the sector. And we got one quick comment that I want to share and somebody writes in fabulous session. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, really good information. So thank you, Katie, because you keep your finger on the pulse, you keep us apprised of the changes of the landscape and the workforce, and this is a much needed conversation. So thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. When we have, I'm going to do like a little tease before we sign off, when we have Staffing Boutique on next, we have another one of your team members, Dana Scurlock, coming on. And she's actually going to be talking with us about how you research a candidate and do that background check, if you will, and what you can do, what you can't, what you should do. And I'm looking forward to that because I think that's one of those things that we don't have a lot of information, we have a lot of fear about. And so that's going to be a lot of fun. And that will be coming up in about a month or so. So yeah, check that out. Hey, everybody, as we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show, we want to remind ourselves, our viewers, our listeners, certainly our guests and sponsors to stay well, so you can do well.


George has some updates for you freedom family. We paid $1.6 million to you just a few days ago for your July earnings See this video shows how I just clicked the $1.6 million button right here. Is it gonna play? No, it's not playing Okay, I'm playing now and it went from this to zero as we were paying you All of those payments went through PayPal To your accounts if you didn't receive them check your freedom dashboard and look for the catch-up button Which is what we use to pay people who have trouble receiving payments from PayPal? Also as an update we now have Leonore coming to the Philippines This is Leonor the person behind me who moderates our discord server click the link down there in the description below To check out the freedom and MGM discord servers so you can chat with us and chat with Leonor and learn about his Upcoming trip here to the Philippines for six months or more another update is what you see behind me The new game giveaways section of the freedom dashboard which includes a ton of games including path of exile which you can see right here Path of exile gave us a ton of keys to give away to you And all you need to do is make videos reviewing this free-to-play dungeon crawler Diablo 3 ask game to get your in-game swag the keys that are worth money Because now you don't have to pay things in their cash shop You can just use the key that we give you after you submit a video reviewing the game And that goes for most of the games here. Just go to www.freedom.tm and click game giveaways to get started We also launched our new channel invitation process what you see behind me Now when you apply to partner with freedom your channel will go through several stages And that includes a review by our quality control team to see if you qualify for a freedom partnership Sometimes you will get a message like this which says you were denied and it'll give you the reason in this case It was because the country of the channel is not in a country. That's allowed for YouTube monetization Check the country setting in your creator studio click channel then advanced and make sure you've chosen the right country Because by default YouTube sets it to Afghanistan since a is the since Afghanistan is the first country in the list And that as it turns out is not eligible for YouTube monetization So make sure you set your country correctly in the channel settings of your YouTube dashboard And something else is happening very soon this month. What is it? hint Civilization 6 is launching October 21st, and this is the epic music from civilization 4 Which is one of my personal favorite versions of the game, and this is definitely one of my favorite pieces of music What do you think of civilization? Will you be playing Civ 6 when it launches October 21st this month? Tell me in the comments below Who am I I am George Sunpai Papa George and many other names you the beautiful freedom family has given me Not partnered with freedom click that I to partner with us so we can all grow together The spirit of freedom is we all help each other grow together as a family I am George CEO and founder of today a very blue shirt That doesn't say freedom because many of you have asked me to wear different colors because black gets boring I don't have any colored shirts that say freedom except black And I think I have a yellow shirt, but that doesn't go too well with filming in a green screen as it turns out So you're gonna be stuck with shirts that don't say freedom from now on if you want to see different colors of George I apologize for not making longer episodes of the George show and more frequent episodes If you remember I used to make these every single day seven days a week I just haven't had the time But I'd like to get back to the schedule of making these daily and including great segments like reading your Comments in every episode like I said I would I just ran out of time. It is 525 a.m. Here in the Philippines and I need to get to some sleep tomorrow We're gonna go out with the kids Sunday is family day So I put this video together because it's been a few days since you've heard from me and that's too long So I hope to get back to making longer videos, but in the meantime. I hope you like this episode I am George and if you like this video click the like button down there So I know what kind of content you enjoy and subscribe to freedom central youtube.com slash. Where are you? Freedom nope not yet. Where are you there? YouTube.com slash freedom is this channel home of the George show I am George and you've been watching Grow together as a family because this is the freedom family You are part of it. We are all part of it and we're all growing together so grow with us and Partner with freedom that play now button right there on the video bar is all you need to click to get started


Okay, well, good afternoon. I know it's hard to be the fourth speaker in the afternoon, and I'll try my best It's a pleasure to be again with this beautiful audience and thanks for Hanzi, Yurchin for having me again and Well, Islam and capitalism that's my topic and I have just written a book about this It will be published in six months, so be warned in advance. It will come out in ten months And this is a controversial topic and actually if you go and Ask many Muslims, I'm a Muslim But like ask most of them what do you think about capitalism?  I mean there are some things in capital societies Maybe a very conservative pies Muslim might might dislike but where does the product of capitalism? Or rather that is capitalism itself is I think an issue to be discussed Of course also Muslims have a concern with secularization and when I say secularization I don't mean the secular state state is good if it is secular. It is good It is good the smaller it is the better and it's as fine with the secular but secularization of the society and individuals of course every Pious will just must have a concern about that But whether capitalism really secularizes or is it the welfare state in the modern age? Secularizes that's I think it's an important topic to be discussed and rediscovered We thought maybe some of the Muslims who think capitalism is the roof of all evil in the modern world So if you just get away with that pejorative description of capital capitalism and come back and describe it as The economic system in which individuals have private property and the right to have economic activity entrepreneurial Like effort and all that this capitalism in that sense is compatible with Islam and my answer is yes and I think it's also an important answer because Actually when you look at the economic history of the Islamic civilization and when you compare with the History of Islamic thought you see that the rise of Islamic capitalism and there is one Corresponds to the more liberal and rationalistic era in the Muslim world and the decline of Islamic capitalism corresponds to the stagnation of minds and the rise of who's bigotry As professor stone, you know wisely noted in the Ottoman Empire You know there were some people who said you know God doesn't like you know Astronomy board so you should close it down But there was an age in Islam an earlier age where actually Astronomy and other sciences were done in the name of Islam and within inspiration from Islam So bigotry comes out of religion, but also sometimes creativity comes out of religion and why was the case in Islam? This is way or that way that's a very important topic Okay, let's go back to the beginnings and in the beginning, of course, there was there was prophet Muhammad There are many founders of religion. Well, at least several in the world and None of them was a businessman But prophet Muhammad was before he became a prophet at the age of 40. He was a successful merchant in Mecca Mecca was the center of after the trade in the Arabian And of course he resorted started receiving revelations according to this long faith at the age of 40 And those revelations formed the community a very strong emphasis on monotheism In the face of idolatry rejection of idolatry and that community became the Muslim community and you know It's flourished and it became an empire in a century. That's that's what everybody knows in history What was significant that the fact that prophet Muhammad himself was a merchant and most of his close aides and the first Muslim to join him were actually merchants Can be traced in the very positive attitude towards trade in early Islam There are sayings of Prophet Muhammad Like ten nine out of God's ten bounty comes from trade Or a tradesman is as honorable as the marchers and they're the prophets They're the friends of the prophets. There's even a hadith who says who makes money, please as God Hadith is a same attribute of the prophet Muhammad And lots of traditions are like that in the earlier recordings of the prophet's life and the way they look at the world And there's an interesting incident actually in one case his fellow Muslims come to the prophets And they complain from the prices in Medina the market in Medina and Medina was the second city You know you might read from Mecca They said you're the prices are too high Can't you fix the prices and he says no only God governs the market and God's Today some more in a free market minded Muslims look back at that and see some invisible hands Theology there in that statement And Well, that's of course the Prophet's life and there's of course Quran more important than the Prophet himself there's the Quran as the scripture of Islam and And of course, well, maybe this is Islam 101 But Quran is so central to Islam that it cannot even be compared to the Bible It is even higher than the Bible. It is compared to if you speak in Christian terms to Jesus itself It is the word of God So in that sense Quran is very central And when we look at the Quran again, we actually see a very positive attitude towards economic activity Like I won't go into all the details one of the experts who really wrote a very interesting and important book on this topic Was the French Marxist Marxin Rodinson. He has this classical book Islamic capitalism It's an old book That's really it's still a very good book and I would suggest you know that book strongly for anyone who's really interested in topic And Rodinson really studied the Quran in detail in the language and all that and he says this is a very pro-business book to coach one of his, you know and now in our analytical sentences, he says The Quran does not merely say that one must not forgets one portion in this world It goes so far as to mention commercial profits under the name of God's bounty Again, the idea that you make money you invest in you that and you you create wealth is Trace in the Quran and that's praise as the way God gives his bounty and Blessings to people It should be also interesting to mention that the longest worst in the Quran, which is about a page long Bacchara 282 in the second chapter is about a loan contract. It's about how to properly sign a contract How many reasons should be there and you know, how should we pay it back and so and so and these things were Let led to the Scott the scholars of the Sharia Islamic law to be very business-minded again When you look at actually what we call Sharia is a dirty word I know that and there that there are some reasons for it because of the corporal punishments which are in my view We should be taken nuts literally and we should be seen in its own context But many Muslims insist on taking them literally today and bring them bring those corporal punishment It's like bringing English common law of the 7th century to modern era and it sounds it looks a little You know violent, but it was good in its age. I think the same thing can be said for the Sharia and Based on the Quranic emphasis Sharia scholars and Most of the shares developed post Quranic I mean there are basic principles on the Quran so scholars create those principles and make them into the take those principles and make them into laws Specified laws and there's a great strong emphasis on property rights that no one can come and confiscate your property and Also, that was important that Sharia was rooted in the divine and not the political authority In the Islamic civilization Sharia became to what in the Western world is called the rule of law Since it was made by the religious scholars who were independent from the Sultan of the political authority It constrained the Sultan and the best example of this was in the Ottoman Empire when the Sultan dared to do something unacceptable like establishing a new tax or Or doing something unjust masses would march saying we want Sharia, which means we want justice So that that is the core of that, you know yearning for the idea of Sharia in the Islamic world It basically something which was about the political authority and we which even dictated to the political authority something Which is considered as just Well, anyway, that's another topic. Well, it's let's come back to the Quran and its idea of you know economic activity There's also an interesting worse in the Quran And I think Islamic socialists generally overlook this worse You know, it says that there are economic inequalities in the world and it's not necessarily a bad thing It says is it they who apportioned by Lord's mercy We have apportioned among them their livelihood in the life of the world and Raised some of them about others in rank that some of them may take labor from others Which in my view suggests that the fact that there are some people are One one person is a boss and the other one is working under a boss is not something that God of course It's is the way that God formed that some people who Will be taking labors and some God has given more blessing to some people than others But at the same time the Quran takes great emphasis to emphasize Sorry great takes great pain to emphasize that the rich have a moral duty to care for the poor And that emphasis has led some Muslims to in the modern world to Discover some sort of Islamic socialism whereas I think and others think that it is a moral duty It's not a collectivization of valve, but it tells the people who are wealth to be To use some of their wealth to help the poor and in that case that would be Equal to what was called in the West charity And actually some institutionalized that charity while making the cut the money given to the poor by one of one of the five Fundamental pillars of the faith. So there is certainly a compassionate a Caring in a cap idea of a capitalist, but a capitalist by its nature is not against the idea That the principles we find in in Quran and the prophets tradition Now these principles these basic, you know ideas in the Quran and the prophets life Of course these unfolded into history within the Islamic civilization And when you look at the Islamic civilization the first centuries are an amazing success In a political sense in a military sense and in a cultural in a scientific sense in all that Islam right after its beginning, you know became a great empire in its century the people who joined the empire or The conquered peoples they were not forced to convert into Islam So Christians and Jews could remain not as equal citizens but protected second-class people But they had their just rights to you know live under Islam And that's why still you know throughout the Islamic world. We still have non-muslim communities And in places like the Ottoman Empire you know churches and synagogues Continue to exist Well, that's another story, but in one of the key Dynamics of this successful civilization was again trade There was two reasons one was the one was the idea coming from the Quran that trade is a good thing And second was the lucky place of the Islamic civilization Was at the root of the world trade routes. It was at the center of the world trade routes between the between India and the Mediterranean and Europe And so the silk road and all that so Islam flourished thanks to being at the very center of the world's most important trade routes And interestingly muslims muslim scholars Some of the makers of the sharia were actually merchants themselves like Abu Hanifa the founder of the For the Sunni schools the more liberal among the Sunni schools To which was to subscribe to the Hanifi school. He was a merchant himself And these also Scholars developed some techniques or some legal devices To institutionalize free market One thing they created was an idea was a system called muhatara This was a way to go over with the ban on usury I should have noted that the Quran bends and condemns usury But whether usury is equal to interest in the way we understand today. That's a big question It has been a question for ages. It's still a question I think there are different things, but in the middle ages they at least Created some legal tricks to get over with that and to make interest possible and muhatara was the Technique to get over with that it soon became muhatara in latin and became a technique used in In question europe as well Some scholars even think the arabic term mudaraba, which means business partnership was transport Transformed to transfer to italy and became commanda, which is the origin of the idea of a limited company There are other Concepts created economic concepts created by muslims and transferred again into europe And one of them is quite clearly, you know in the way it's you can trace its origins That's the arabic term suck, which means written documents And that was the idea that you could give some money In morocco and get a written document So carry the document instead of the money because it's dangerous all the way to bag that and cash it again So suck was the written document in english. It became the check Actually Fernando brought out the greatest one of the greatest historians of civilizations in the great eminence french historian says that Anything in western capitalism of important origin came from islam And today in the english language you can even just look at the language and trace some words And find their origins actually in this islamic civilization not all of them are related to islamic capitalism But you know you can see that what muslims spanish and the middle ages and what came from that Into into the english speaking or actually into the whole european civilization These words are arabic words in english algebra alchemy alkali almanac amalgam olympic alco mask muslin tariff sugar syrup checkmate loot and guitar There's of course also the arabic So This was a very successful civilization in many ways and actually a american scholar once said If there were noble prizes like In the year 1000 all would go to muslims because of all the discoveries in medicine and science and astronomy and all that Of course muslims learned from previous civilizations like greek civilization and chinese civilization But they also created synthesis and this synthesis was especially flourishing in the more cosmopolitan centers of islam like where like back that First in damascus when they backed out in kufa in basra In in southern spain, which was called indelusia at the time whereas in the more Desert base areas of islam You had you did not have this trade and the vitality and the dynamism coming from that And this is not an accident that the more liberal and rational strains of islamic thought flourished in these Dynamic areas that i mentioned whereas the more austere radical literalist schools of thought Emerged from the desert basically from the arabic desert And you can see that for example in the sunni tradition. The hanefi school is the most flexible than Liberal school as it is compared. It was rooted in baghdad and kufa in baghdad But the most rigid and literalist School the hanbili school, which later became the wahabi school in today's salvia That originated in the desert and in the mindset I think of those people were influenced by the way, you know, they were facing by the real physical reality we were facing Well in the again just the mediae Islamic civilization there was not and Maxim rodinson uses term he says islam created financial capitalism in the middle ages There was also a theory of it created by ibn khaldun the famous 14th century scholar from north africa ibn khaldun Is an interesting figure. He's sometimes people report to him as the founder of sociology He wrote a famous book called mukad dima Which means introduction and it was an introduction into history in when you're a student And he basically studied the role of geography in the shaping of cultures And he actually emphasized what I just mentioned. He said In the desert you have a harsh, you know more harsh warlike tribes in the cities because of trade and wealth and luxury People tend to come softer and more liberal then the wild tribes come and occupy the you know cities But a few generations later they you know, you adopt to the city culture and you know this cycle goes on He just observed what is going on and he created a history a theory of history out of that which is very interesting But one of his most important contributions was also his his study of the economics In his mukad dima he he kinds of you can find the traces of an free market economy theory. First of all, he says In he says in kingdoms where the government produces stuff Those kingdoms are not successful. He says the merchants and the people in the private business people should produce it And the state should not be in production. He says the state's goal is to Make the the merchants and the market is free He also says that in in kingdoms where the state takes too much tax That that kingdom becomes much poorer because people do fear from the state and do not have much activity So he basically defines a low tax free market economy And it's not an accident that the world bank a few years ago Referred to ibn-e-Haldun as the forerunner as the forefather of private the idea of privatization So All this again to economic activity was linked with some of the more liberal state strains in islam And that's a different matter But i just want to mention a few things there were two important early schools in islamic thought one was the mutasilites These are also known as the rationalists and they flourished in bagdad and bazaar at the more Whital places in islam in which muslims faced greek philosophy in in jewish kabbalah in christian Priests and in hindu philosophy. So it was a more color palatine world. So the mutasilites flourished there They were the early rationalists of islam and they said Revelation is from god But our reason is also from god and we should use reason and revelation in together to find it through And they even said if there were no revelation, we would find what is true with our reason By we could establish that you know teft is bad with reason even if the revelation did not tell us revelation only confirms that and tells us Things we wouldn't know like afterlife on the other hand there was the literalist Non-rationalist even anti-rationalist school. We said no no something is bad only when god bends it So teft is bad only god because god says so in the scripture So you cannot use reason to establish anything So that's the other the opposite school and today in the muslim world you still have The you know conflict the the clash of these different schools The only problem is that the literalist school today which is represented by saudi arabia has the biggest oil wealth in the world and They find us lots of schools all across the all across the globe There was another school called murjiites, and I think that's very important for the general principle of freedom in islam the murjiites they're known in english as the postponers and the world postpone comes from their conviction that All important decisions about theology should be postponed to god and afterlife Because you could not have the ultimate truth And this came as a reaction to a very rigid school called another school called harijites The harijites were basically saying that who doesn't agree with us or infidels and we're going to kill them They were the first radical violence school like movement in islamic history Very marginal but violent a bit similar to the radicals of today So they were arguing that they have an access to truth nobody has but they they have it But the murjiites which again flourished in the more cosmopolitan centers of islam said No, god knows who's ultimately through and we cannot judge today So we should postpone the judgment to afterlife So they so they created an idea of a pluralism On the reach of theocracy would not be possible because since you cannot have Ultimate access to truth. You can't say this is a truth except, you know, establish a theocracy based on that Well, I mean and This was of course the Medieval islamic civilization and the thing is there are many Interesting debates and discussions among those early muslims. Some of them are most of them are gone or forgotten Unfortunately because because something became the orthodoxy and that orthodoxy, you know became unquestioned after some after some time And the the fact that the orthodoxy was formed more by The literalists in a traditional school Has again something to do with the decline of trade and economic prosperity in the muslim world That began with the mongol conquests, which were disastrous Which destroyed a lot of agriculture and even even books and libraries and Big part of islamic civilization in the very disastrous event in the 13th century and then the crusades But the big big change and the big decline for islam was the change in world trade routes When majelaan turned the cape of hope and you know found a way from the oceans to india The world changed forever Soon the the middle east and even the mediterranean started to decline as northern europe that you know, poland and later britain And started to flourish and you know because oceans became the world's new New source of wealth and trade and then dynamism and open-mindedness and activity and all that whereas even italy You know started stagnates, but even before that the islamic middle east so It's the problem was not that there are not right ideas in islamic the problem was that the context was not very helpful And the change of context Is Made the west prosper and you know, of course they had right ideas as well as mech's favor showed in In his famous thesis about the origin of capitalism in europe But also at right context and the context was not favorable to islam after you know the 14 and 15 centuries as per sure So the Ottoman empire was the latest the last you know strongest muslim power and it was It was based on the idea of law and if a and i agree with professor stone that it's The fact that it was successful was not just because it continued the Byzantine traditions which had something to explain But also because it had the idea of asheria a law You know That constrained the sultan and created a legal system And in a tradition of the state But as we all know the Ottoman empire despite its successes failed to create the economic activity the success that The west had it is said that the one of the latest Ottoman sultan sultan abul hamid one of the most important ones once said that I wish our forefathers were More into trade than you know war and conquest because the Ottoman empire basically suffered the lack of a dynamic bourgeoisie And they realized that towards the end and brought new laws about you know Freeing trade and so on and promoting trade and in the middle class in the bourgeoisie class, but it was too late Now one thing I think I'm running out of time. Okay Three moments, that's good What happened in the 20th century is a Worst story because we know what happened after the fall of the Ottoman empire The Ottoman empire was what we called the middle east today From its ashes 28 different nation states emerged and you're in just one of them turkey Most of them almost all of them were colonized Uh and the colonizers were looking down upon the uncivilized peoples And what what you have when you have colonization you have anti-colonization Which becomes an ideology which becomes a culture which becomes a spirit And then came the reaction to israel and all that this led the whole arab world in the 20th century almost the whole airport Into nationalism socialism a combination of that Which ultimately took a new form in the name of islamism That sort of turned worldist anti-western reactionary islamism is not the only political manifestation of islam It's a particular manifestation of islam born out of this context But is there a different example? Yes, and that is coming up in turkey Turkey was never colonized turkey had a chance to establish its own democracy despite its struggles inside And a very imperfect democracy for many reasons But turkey also has been able to in the past three decades to even two decades Flourish help floor something that we can call an islamic capitalism again Today right now turkey.  These are devout businessman Who look at prophet Muhammad and not emphasize his warrior side, which is which is a part of his legacy But emphasizes businessman side Recently a german think tank wrote a report about turkeys muslim calvinists And they said their spirit is just like the you know early calvinists in their the way that max waiver defined And their attitude towards business making very pious very conservative Not heathen us at all making a lot of money and spending it for charity and schools and you know And sending their kids to nice schools in the west and so on and that is Creating an interesting new culture in turkey in which islam is seen as something which Encourages first of all economic activity and second even individualism And there are lots of you know examples in terms of society on that One just one example that I can mention one of the actually conservative islamic thinkers a few months ago In his column was criticizing this new upper class muslims The you know starbucks coffee drinking that's card very this new type of Girls and you know that whole subculture and was saying they speak about not coran and obedience But they speak about coran and freedom And I think that's the right message and that's the way to go. Thank you so much