And I'm Abby. Abby, I cannot believe we're doing this. I know, I'm so excited. Me too. We're sitting here at the Virgin Hotel in Nashville. I think we need our audience to know who we are, so why don't you go ahead and start introducing yourself, what we're going to do with John, me, everything. Oh, I know. I hate. So, I'm Jamie Robinson, better known as John's Better Half. Yes, of course. I'm originally from South Louisiana, a small town called Homa, Louisiana, Berg, Louisiana actually, which is south of Homa, but nobody knows it. So, I always say the big town of Homa. I went to school at Nickel State, and that's actually where I met John. Tibode, Louisiana is where it's at, and he was a coach at the university. Not so sure if that was legal, since I was still a student. Oh my gosh, that's okay. I was 19, he was 24. I was actually a bartender at Tobobus II, which is a little sports bar right in the college town. We dated for, I think, a year and a half. Got engaged, married 10 months later. It was a whirlwind. Wait, so how old were you when you got married? I was 22. Oh my gosh. Newly 22. 22 in October, got married in February, and this February will be 20 years. That's amazing. It's fate. I know. Originally, he told me that we would be moving around because he wanted to be a coach, and unexpectedly, he got the opportunity to interview with Bill Belichick at the Patriots, and four months later, he moved me from Louisiana to Atlanta because he got the regional scouting job for the Patriots. That's crazy. It was. It was crazy, and we moved around about six times, and here we are. Yes. It's been amazing. We have two beautiful girls, Taylor and Bailey, who are 15 and 12, and it's been nuts. That's awesome. Yes. Now here we are. Yes. Tell us a little bit about you. I will tell you this, that you are my lifesaver when we moved here because when you move from Tampa to Nashville, not knowing anything about Nashville, I relied heavily on Nashville Guru. Yes. I love hearing that. I know. I love that. Yes. I'm one of the co-founders of Nashville Guru. I started it with my husband. He was my fiance at the time when we started it.  You're from here. I am. I've been here since fourth grade. My husband's born and raised. He likes to throw that in my face that I was not born here. I have two children. My daughter is six. Her name's Jessa, and I have an almost six-month-old little boy who's just adorable and precious. He's precious. They both are. Yes. I'm from Nashville. Josh and I met in a very Nashville way. We went out with friends, and I didn't know him. We ended up in a late-night in Printer's Alley and hit it off. That's awesome. Fiddling steel is the exact bar that we were at. That's not here now. No. I didn't think so. No. I think so. It used to be right next to Lonnie's. Since that night, we just hit it off, and then we got engaged and got married. How many years? We've been married 10 years this October. Oh, October what? October 1st. That's my birthday. What? Yes. No way. Not even kidding. Oh my God. Okay, we're going to celebrate together. We are absolutely meant to be together. Who do I pick? You or Josh? I think you. I love it. We knew it. Well, speaking of knowing it, I'll never forget the first time I met you. Oh my God. Some of the Titans employees came to me and was like, we have this idea about this lifestyle podcast, and would you be interested? And I'm like, well, you kind of know I can talk to a pole. I mean, it doesn't take much out of me, especially if I have a glass of champagne in my hand. Like I do now. But as soon as you sat down and we could not stop talking, I was like, done. I know. Even now, everyone's like, you guys knew each other right before this, and we're like, no. We're just instant. We are going to have a blast. Instant besties. So tell us about our guests. We had so much fun. Caitlin Silver Howard, she is my neighbor, turned best friend out of necessity. We are together every single day with our kids. We live on the same street. She's three doors down.  We talked to her all about her life in New York City and how she worked for New York Fashion Week and put on that event, and then how her her husband ended up winning the Voice Germany, which took them out of New York City to Berlin. And then they ended up in Nashville eventually. They actually launched a music company called Bookable in 2018. And so we talk all about that and what that is. And so we're just, we were so excited to have her on. And she was amazing. She was great. I enjoyed her. And I cannot wait to go sip some wine with y'all soon. Yes. Yes. You're in. Caitlin, we're so excited you're here. So start by telling us a little bit about where you grew up, where you went to college, and how you ended up in New York City initially. Well, thank you guys for having me. First and foremost. This is very exciting to be here. So I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and went to college at the University of Wisconsin, big football team, and absolutely just loved my experience there. The people are incredible, the fanfare, the passion, Wisconsin in general is just a wonderful place to live. And, you know, I attribute a lot of the good things in my life back to people that I've met both growing up in Milwaukee and at the University of Wisconsin. So really, really good, good energy, good people. What did you major in? I majored in communications, radio, television, film. They did not have podcasts. Oh, here you go. Otherwise, I think I would have jumped on that bandwagon. That's awesome. Yeah. And I had a minor in history and think I graduated and felt very inspired, but also lost at the same time. Abby, I know that you had more of a specific degree that you were going for. But you know, I think in hindsight, I think it was the best degree that I could have gotten because it really forced me to figure out what I wanted to do. And post college, I actually took a year off and I traveled around the world, which for anyone ever that needs that break in their life, that was probably one of the coolest things. Do it while you can. I have to ask, a minor in history, what, I've always wondered that. Like if you minor in history, what would you do with that? Well, a lot of people go to law school if they major in history. Yeah, it seems to be a random correlation between law and, yeah, or they become professors or they study, you know, intricate parts of history and then they project their future. Yeah. Very interesting. I don't know. I've always wondered that. I know this is kind of random. My father's a huge history buff. Is he? So I think that amongst other things. That's awesome. So I think that was a big driver for me and I just, I loved it, but it was, it was kind of random. Yeah. You know what I mean? It wasn't strategic at that point. Oh, that's awesome. But yeah. Where did you go to college? I went to Nickel State. Okay. It's a really small college in Tibbetta, Louisiana. I'm from South Louisiana. Yeah. I majored in Fine Mew, but now we used to live in Boston and that was one of the things that like growing up, you always think, what am I going to do with history, you know, history classes? Why do I need to know this? But living in Boston, there's so much history out there is insane. And at that point was like, man, I wish I would have paid attention more. Well, you still can. That's the best part of life and you can still do it. My parents met in Boston. Did they really? Yeah. It's an incredible city. I've spent a lot of time there. They can keep the snow. Yeah. But I love the city so much. It is. It's special for sure. Well, I grew up in Wisconsin, so snow is my jam. Nashville is a good mix of everything. It is. It is great. When we had the snowstorm, what was that, back in February here in Nashville, you know, our street wasn't plowed for a week. So I was offering my services of driving people to the grocery store. I was like, I grew up in this. I know how to do this. Yeah. Well, you're so scared. It's like with the snow, you know, I was petrified to drive in the snow when we first got there. I mean, I literally grew up on the bayou and then you take me to the north pole. I actually asked John when we moved there, I said, am I going to need chains for my tires? And he's like, you've got to be. Is that a serious question? I'm like, yes, it's a serious question. Yeah. But now it's, of course, it's nothing, you know, to drive in it, but you're more worried about people here driving. Oh, yeah. Because they don't understand how to drive. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting driving. I mean, the rain throws people off here, so it's a little iffy. Okay. So you traveled for a year and then what did that look like coming back? Did you just start interviewing? Did you move to a specific city? Yeah. I think growing up in the Midwest, everyone's kind of you, you know, you go to a Big Ten school and then everyone moves to Chicago, that's just kind of a given. And after having traveled for a year, I just really felt the need to broaden my horizons and what that meant and my cousin actually was a dancer in the New York City Ballet and so I had, which is incredible and I had been out to visit her several times over the years and just kind of started falling more and more in love with New York City. So just decided to, you know, take that leap of faith and move there without a job and figure out what was next for me. So it was kind of whimsical, but kind of calculated all at the same time, but best decision I ever made. So yeah, I think it was great. So you just started applying for jobs and like, yeah, it was, you know, back in the day of people posted jobs on Craigslist and you had to read the newspaper. I'm totally aging myself right now, but yeah, and just, you know, word of mouth, friends of a friend, I ultimately ended up getting my first event planning job at Clinique Incorporate Estee Lauder, but it was a friend. Again, everything comes back to Wisconsin for me. It was a friend who was working there and, you know, had gotten my resume and put me forward and yeah. So what types of events were you doing for them? So that one was interesting because we did, part of it was events for a lot of the Clinique sales people all over the country as like big rewards got these, they would go to Orlando and there would be a thousand people and they would learn all about the new products and so they were big like launch events, but they were also kind of like rewards for the people that were doing well within the company. So we would do those, but then we also did some of the Estee Lauder family private events as well. So it was like a good mix of really big, massive production and then also very... I never realized they were linked together. Yeah, so Estee Lauder owns maybe like a hundred different beauty companies. No kidding. Yeah, it's crazy. They own Clinique, they own Mac, they own, I mean it goes on and prescriptives, do you guys remember? Prescriptives? Yes. I'm like, I'm still mourning the loss of prescriptives, they have the best foundation ever. I actually think you still can order it online. So yeah, you walk into a Nordstrom, they own 90% of the store. I did not know that. Yeah. But it was insane because there was in Estee Lauder building, which is right on Fifth Avenue in the corner of Central Park, at the bottom of it they had a company store. So we got 50% off the company store, so you would go down there. And it was like Christmas. Oh my gosh. It was amazing. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. Yeah. They own like Joe Malone, the candles, I mean they own like everything. So yeah, for a couple of years there, my family got a lot of makeup they didn't want. Christmas, birthday, father's day, that's awesome. So one of the things that Abby told us about is you worked the fashion show week. How was that? And what did you do for that? New York Fashion Week, I think over the course of the last 15 years has taken on many different iterations. Most people think about it in Bryant Park in the big tents. I actually worked with a couple brands before I worked in-house at IMG, which owns New York Fashion Week. I did like the LaCoste show, which was always super fun and they gave away amazing LaCoste bags and hats and all the very fun things.  I did a couple of the actual fashion shows, but then when I worked for New York Fashion Week, they had moved it into this kind of old warehouse that we would take over. And I did a lot of work with the partners, some beauty like Tressame, a lot of the sponsors that would help kind of build all the sets and make sure that the designers can afford to show there and those type of things. And the sponsors that worked on that were anything from papyrus cards to smart water. It was kind of whatever we were pulling in at the time to make those work. But yeah, we built all of the runways and the backstage and kind of the build out of it. So we did all of that, soup to nuts. We had a very small team, which is only ironic because when you see the pictures and the production, you can't imagine that there's only a handful of people behind the scenes running. We worked with amazing production companies and every fashion designer has their own people that they bring in for their shows, so every designer gets booked a certain time slot and whatnot. How many years did you do that for? So I only did that specific job for two years. I kind of jumped around a lot within my event planning and marketing career. I love it. That's awesome. It was super cool. Living in New York and anyone that's ever done any of the bigger cities, New York, LA, DC, Chicago, you work at these big companies, they just throw you in. It's like kind of sink or swim and they're super fast paced and they're very intense, but you learn so much at such a young age. And I think it's like boot camp. Yeah. For real life. It is. Which is cool. That's crazy. That's awesome. Before we move on, because you left New York shortly after that, what was like your favorite restaurant in New York that like you have to go back to? Okay. So there is a man named Frank and he owns several restaurants throughout the city in Brooklyn. There's a restaurant called Frank. There's a restaurant called Little Frankies. There's a restaurant called Supper. So Supper is like my favorite Italian restaurant in New York City. He is incredible. He has a bunch of others, different iterations of it now, but just some of the best Italian food. Oh my gosh. So fresh and just a solid go-to every time you're there. Yes. I love it. Go to Supper. So what pulled you away from New York initially, correct me if I'm wrong, is not to change the subject from you because you're amazing. Your husband, Nick Howard, had the opportunity to go on The Voice Germany. Is that why you guys left initially? Yeah. Ironically, ironically, I had just gotten my dream job in New York. I was hired to be the head of marketing and events at Hearst, which owns everything from Cosmo to Good Housekeeping to, you know, they own 30 magazines and also have a huge media department. So I'd just gotten a job there and I remember I had this incredible boss named Lily Root and I kind of casually said to her, oh, because she was asking me, oh, where's your husband? Or what is he doing? You know, I said he's a singer-songwriter and The Voice in Germany just asked him to be on it, but he's British and he doesn't really know German. So like, I kind of swept it under the rug a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you know. This won't happen. Yeah, I was like, you know, he's really good. Like, I'm obviously his number one fan, however, I didn't think much of it. So basically, from an insider perspective, The Voice and a lot of these shows go after pre-existing musicians. Some are just walk off the street, but sometimes they're like, you're doing really well. You're at this level, we can help project you to this level. So they asked them to come audition. So that's kind of what happened. My husband, Nick, had been garnering a pretty cool following specifically in Germany, Austria, Switzerland. And so The Voice came to him and they just said, would you ever want to audition? And he said yes. And they said the only caveat is you have to learn German in two months. Oh my gosh. I didn't know it was that soon. Yeah, it was crazy. So the reason he had to learn German though was the speaking was all in German. The singing was 99% in English. He never had to sing a German song. Oh, he didn't. Yeah. And most of the contestants sang in English. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. You have been watched every episode. I would have Nick Howard. Season two of The Voice Germany escaped me somehow back in 2012. I don't know. I can't be friends anymore. He sang in German. He has sung in German, but not for the show. So yeah, so that was crazy. So I, at the time, I was living my best life in New York City in Hirst Tower and he was living in Germany in Berlin. And they got him tutors. He used Rosetta Stone. You know, they only spoke to him in German while taping like the initial parts of the show. I think he's highly intelligent and picked it up. Obviously. Super fast. And then, you know, ultimately week by week, he was getting through to the next round and I was always flying out from New York on Thursday night on the red eye and landing Friday morning. And he would be on the show Friday afternoon. Wow. And then he'd win. And then I'd get back on the plane and go back to New York. You got a lot of frequent flower miles, right? Yeah. Our children are not going to college, but I did get to go to Germany a lot. That's for sure. So it was a super exciting time and we, you know, my boss Lily that I brought up before was very supportive because this is, you know, she looked at me at one point and she was like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, right? Yeah. You have to go. You have to support him. And then, yeah, he ultimately, you know, he was supporting him. And then, yeah, he ultimately ended up winning the entire thing, which was crazy. I still get goosebumps. I'll talk about it. So is he like the Justin Bieber of Germany right now? I'm going to say yes. Really? Awesome. Oh. A little. A little. I am very global. Okay. Maybe like the job. Yeah. Exactly. Well, cheers to the Justin Bieber of Germany. I love that, by the way. Yeah. So he, he ended up winning and I made the very hard decision of leaving my job and moving over to Berlin for a year. And it was incredible, but the only thing was that he was fluent in German by the time I got there. So I didn't get to really indulge in learning any language. Most Germans are offered and do learning. So they just wanted to speak English to me and I was trying to speak German to them. So it was quite, you know, problematic, but all, all good things. So how did you do coming in with being his wife and now he's a star, his fame? How did you handle that? Yeah. It's interesting because when I was on my way over here, I was thinking very similar question to ask you. That's why I asked him. Yes. It is. It's interesting too because being an event planner, I've always been behind the scenes. I'm not forward facing in the limelight. And he is that person that should be on TV and should be in front of the camera. And, you know, to support that and to have the wherewithal to understand what needs to go into that. Yes. Is very exciting, but also when real life sets in, it's scary. It's scary. It can be exhausting. It can be, you know, very tricky for trying to manage both people's expectations and what they want and what they need, especially living in a different country in a different language. I think too, when you're uprooted in which I'm sure you have been several times in your career, it takes a second to adjust your mentality and to understand I'm doing this because this is the goal in life, right? And to get behind that. But your personal needs, if you don't address them, and this is all hindsight is easier in 2020, you don't address them, then they can compound and it can be more difficult at the end. It's true. Do you feel that way? Absolutely. We've been in this for 20 years now and it's always been so exciting, you know, and he was an area scout, regional scout, national scout.  At the beginning, he never really thought about it, but whenever it became real, it was so exciting.  You know, going through the grocery store and people scream, tighten up. At first, it was so fun, but then after a year, it just got like, I just want to go to the store and, you know, with my husband and it did, it took some time to adjust. Now I could care less, you know, but at the beginning, it was, it was hard. It really was. I made a very, for better or for worse, odd decision. From the beginning that I did not want to be in the public eye with the show. So I was never on camera just because I wasn't comfortable with it. And it wasn't about me. It was about him. Right. Right. And that also created some odd speculation of like, who, does he have a girlfriend? No, but more just like the questions, like, does he have a girlfriend? Oh, then they found out he has a wife and like, why is she not? Yeah. You know what I mean? And it was more personal. It was just, it was my decision. Right. And we still struggle with that. We have two little girls and, you know, he has a very public facing music career and I'm, sometimes I'm comfortable sharing things about the girls and sometimes I'm not. And it changes constantly. And so it is, I think to your point, like all of a sudden you're thrown into this line like. Yeah. And it, it can be scary and daunting. And the crazy thing is I never expect it to feel that way. Right. You know what I mean? I always expect it to be like, oh, this is, and I am so proud of him and where he is and how he became a GM. Right. But it surprised me so much that at one time I went and saw a therapist about it. Girl is the best decision I ever made. Probably should have. So you're one step above me. It was, it was, it was challenging. It was. It's good for you for taking hold of that because if you hadn't had done that, you might be in a different place. Right. You have to. Exactly. And I think it is. I'm sure Abby and Josh know this too. I mean, they own a business together and they work together constantly and when Nick won the voice, I was part of his management team. And so we were working together and you're just together all the time and you're trying to capitalize on this once in a lifetime opportunity. Right. And so every decision felt so heavy and so important and that's taxing as well too. You know, there's just no reprieve. And then I think when you are able to step out of it and say, okay, life's going to go on. Yes. We're going to be okay. Not everything is so serious, but it is in those moments. It is, especially when you're working towards a goal that this has been your goal your entire life. And if you don't do it right, it could all go away. Yes. Yeah. So I think that was the most. It was scary, you know, but it was exciting. It's the same thing. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do y'all go to Germany a lot? We do. We do obviously not during COVID. But we are over there a lot. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands. He still has a phenomenal fan base over there who have supported him, you know, throughout almost the last 10 years. Oh, that's incredible. That's really cool. And such good people over there too. That's awesome. So did you have to stay over there for a certain period of time after the voice? Or could you, could you guys end up back in LA? Yeah. So we, we were kind of on the road for a good, a solid year after he won the voice. Okay. With all the tours that they had booked and promotional. I think here in the U.S. they do it every six months. Over there it's just once a year. So it was like, he was the winner for a whole year.  They, they flew us to Beijing. He did the voice of the world. They flew in. Yeah. It was super cool. So it wasn't just Germany. It was more global. That's awesome. Yeah. So we were there for a year and then we decided he wanted to do bits and pieces of albums in, we lived in London for a while and we moved out to LA and moved there for a couple months. And this was just kind of when Airbnb was on the rise. So it was just so nice cause we didn't really have a home and we were somewhat nomadic and just would pick up in different cities with our suitcases and his guitar. And I'm assuming y'all didn't have children yet at that time. We did not. So how cool is that? Wow. Super cool. Yeah. It was whimsical. And while we were on a tour with, you know, a bigger artist that Nick was opening for, I thought that I was pregnant, which was so fun and continued to do different tours. And then I think we were eight months pregnant and we happened to be in Madison, Wisconsin where I went to school and I kind of had to roll out of the tour bus because I was so pregnant and I was like, maybe we should find a home. So you're like, where am I going to have this baby? I was like, where do I live? Oh my gosh. So did you come to Nashville at that point? So it's funny because Nick had recorded parts of albums down here throughout his career. He's got seven, six and a half albums. So it was, we had been down here a lot and every time we came, we just fell more and more in love with the city and the people and the ease, especially coming from all these major cities where, you know, life is pretty chaotic. And so when Madeline, our six year old, was six months old, we came down here and looked at about 50 houses, looked at neighborhoods in Nashville, our poor realtor, and then moved back to New York and decided we were going to stay in New York for a little bit longer. And that's when I worked for New York Fashion Week. And then two years later, we were just done and we called our poor realtor up again. She's like, uh-oh, yeah. I'm sitting here thinking, wow, they had 50 houses for sale. Right now they're like, do you want this one? Oh, it's gone. Exactly. That's so true. We live in 12 South neighborhood and we fell in love with it the first time we came and then ultimately, even just two years later, ended up paying way more money for a house. Yes. But we ended up on the best street ever. Best street ever. They're neighbors. You almost have a lot of fun. I think I'll be coming over a lot. You're invited every day. Thank you. I'm in the club. It's very fun. So we ended up moving down about four years ago. Oh, wow. Yeah. And we had our second daughter here in Nashville and we just love the city so much. We love it. I'm obsessed with it. Yes. How long have you guys been here? I think we've been here for six years. I think this is our sixth season, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know. It all blends together. Oh, sure. I'm sure it does. Like something about football. Yeah. It just all collides. Growing up in the Midwest, I think for us when we were looking to relocate elsewhere, you know, we wanted that kind of that community that we knew that our children would grow up with humility and kindness and, you know, collaboration. Yes. And, you know, there's only a certain number of cities that really embody that in the U.S. that also don't have the chaos, right? Yes. And I think that Nashville just was calling our name for so many reasons, not just musically for next perspective, but just from a community in a, you know...  Every day of your life. Do y'all get together a lot? Soul sisters. Oh, yeah. Daily. Daily. So are the girls about the same age as your daughter? Jessa and Maddie are besties. Well, they're required to be even if they... Yeah, they don't have a choice. They're like sisters, they do.  Yeah. Y'all are going to love it. So when we lived in Massachusetts across the street, our neighbors had girls the same exact age as our girls, and then they had a son a couple of years later. But anyway, the girls are still best friends. Oh. And when we moved there, our youngest was six months old, maybe even four months old, and then our oldest was four. And we were just on vacation with them this year. And it had been 18 months since we've seen them. We always made it a point every six months to see each other. So it was just when we left them, bawled our eyes out. All of us, even the dad, not John. John is just like, y'all are silly. I'm not going to say the word he said, but... Oh, my gosh. But it's such a connection to have neighbors like that, and you feel so lucky. Raising kids together, like you have to have it. It would be so lonely without it, especially. It's life-saving, I think, for not only the kids, but for us. Those slay dates, those wine play dates are the best. The best total date. Totally. I'm assuming your husband probably travels a lot. Well, he did pre-COVID. He did pre-COVID. Post-COVID. We've been all at home a lot. Yeah, a lot of them. Because we were joking with our neighbor this past week. I was joking whenever I would introduce him. I'm like, yeah, he co-raised my children, because John traveled so much. I'm like, sure. He was the one that went sledding with them, because I would not go sledding. It's such a neat connection that the whole families, both families have. Yeah. That's so sweet. I know. When you find those special people in your life and the special connections, you just have to go. You hang on to them. Because you get to pick your, we call it, our family, right? Yeah.  So Abby and Josh and Justin, Judah are our family. He's true. You know? It's true. I know. Aw, that's so sweet. I have some champagne. She's drinking. How many years have you all did I ask this question already? I repeat myself a lot. We met when you were pregnant with Micah, so it's been three over three. Yeah. Three and a half, four years, three months. Aw, that's awesome.  You're going to love to party with her, blah, blah, blah, blah. She wasn't drinking, and I was like, what's going on?  And she was like, I'm pregnant. And I was like, Oh God. And as much as we feel like we should hang out all day and drink together, we have to make money. Unfortunately, that's kind of how life works. It gets in the way. I know it does. It gets in the way of fun. But tell us about Bookable, which is your amazing events company. And you will explain it way better than I can. Well, thank you. After the first year, after Nick won the voice, he had done so much traditional touring at that point, you know, venues and more corporate sponsor type events. And then we, we really wanted to kind of flip the script a little bit. We were like, how can we capitalize on his celebrity and make things more personable and make things more memorable? So we had been hearing about a trend that had started in the US and the UK and Australia called house concerts. The thought process was you could bring a musician into your backyard, into your living room and have this magical moment. And then the person that's bringing them in would either pay for it or sell tickets to their friends. Oh, wow. And so we did that with him and we booked about 50 shows and it was just such a So cool. intimate way of bringing live music into people's lives in a totally different fashion. And, you know, as we all kind of move into 2020 and 2021 and beyond, you know, I think there is this need of having these exciting different experiences that, you know, you're probably never going to get that again, right? And if you have that person in your house or in your backyard or, you know, he did things that he would sing the first dance at someone's wedding. So it was just like very highly curated, very special moments. And kind of seeing that trend when we moved to Nashville, we decided to open our own company with that on the forefront. We launched it in 2018. I was nine months pregnant. Oh, wow. Brave you. Wow. Our launch party, I was, oh, yeah. It was 100 degrees outside here in Nashville and I was very large. But you know what? No time like the present, right? You got to just go for it in these moments. We originally had built a platform that was connecting. It was kind of like an Airbnb of live music. So connect fans with brands and people in the private sector. And we still do that. But we then during COVID really transitioned into bringing live music to Nashville safely. We were able to do live music and wine tasting events outside all during COVID. Socially distanced. And it was just, it was one of those ideas that Nick woke me up in the middle of the night and was like, we have to put the musicians back to work.  And they're all going crazy. So we moved in October and we were waiting for our house to be ready. And we actually found a rent house in 12 South. And one night we were sitting on our porch. And don't you know that there was a live band playing down our street. So we sat on that porch and we had a fire going. And I was like, okay, I want to move here. I'm still looking at real estate as well. So come on. But it was so cool. So I'm like, I wonder if it was you? I know. Yeah. I don't know if that was us, but we were somewhere doing it. We've done over 50 events during COVID, which is like insane. But we did them really safely.  Yeah. At one point it was like 20 people. Everyone masked. I mean, you were outside six feet apart. It was so safe. And being with Nashville Guru, like I know what events are going on. And you guys were really like the first ones to pivot and be able to pull it off really well and do it safely. So it was like really impressive. Thank you. And Nashville Guru supported us from the beginning. So that was very kind and sweet and really put us on the map. So I have you to thank for that. You know, when you scale Nashville back and you think about, okay, this city is built strategically on music.  In the last like 18 months. And for us, it was just like, how do we be part of the solution? How do we get people back on stage? Yeah. And then allow people to come and hear live music. Cause I think mentally too, I think everyone needed a break. Like they needed a glass of wine and they needed to hear live music. So once we kind of figured out that we could do this small, very safely, we were able to kind of just keep it rolling. And we did it week after week. We were just like, we're just gonna keep doing this until no one wants it anymore. And we're, we're still going. And now we've kind of taken the idea that original one was called Secret Sounds, which we still do on Thursdays over at White Avenue Studio. And we've now taken that same idea and we do live from the rooftop at the Kimpton Hotel, which is super magical up there. So we've been up there. Yes. It's very, it's gorgeous. So that's kind of dreamy. And we do similar, you know, live music and wine tastings. So yeah, it's just been great. And a lot of companies will come to us and they'll say, we're here in Nashville and we have this event and we need this type of musician. So we do a lot of music curation as well.  We can plan, you know, an entire event. Wow. We can just help place the musician. So we kind of can do it all. Yeah. We're soup to nuts and all of the things and we have a lot of musical equipment in our garage. Yes, you do. Yes. Your car can barely fit at this point. And it keeps growing. Nick's like, I just went to the guitar center and there's like a huge box. You know, like we're going to need a warehouse eventually.  How do you keep up work-life balance with two beautiful little girls and a husband and at least you get to work together or you wouldn't see him. I bet that is very true. That is very true. I don't know how we all balance it, but at least we have each other. Having good women in your life is so important. Amen to that. We all know. I think it keeps us all sane and it reminds us that we're not the only ones going through the struggles of daily life. Someone the other day asked me, what do you want in the next five years? And my answer was balance. You know, I think that's what we're all trying to achieve is how do I, you know, do a good job at my actual job, whether that's being a full-time mother or owning a business or trying to start a crazy business in the middle of a pandemic or, you know, trying to support our lifestyle and our children and what does that mean? And for me, it's really having good people in my life. I really, and this is not meant to be in a mean way, but I just don't have any room for people that don't support me at this point in my life. And I don't know if that's not, if that's getting older. Keep your circle small.  Drama free. Yes. I know drama. Deal with the drama. Uh-uh. Because you just don't have enough time, right? No. You have certain things that you carve out throughout the day. You're like, okay, this needs attention, 30% of the time. Yes. You know, like, oh, the kids need to be fed. Yes. Like, Well, listen, when your girls and your son becomes teenagers, there's a lot more drama in their life. So you don't have time for that drama in your life. Oh, that's so true. So, I might just deal with it outside of me. I can't handle it. I'm actually really scared. I will, No, don't be scared.  And every stage, I'm like, oh, this is my favorite. This is my favorite. And right now, this is my favorite. Yeah. Because it's, they're my little best friends, you know, and like my little one was going to come today. I say little, she's 12. Yeah. She was going to come today because she wanted to see everything until I told her how long we would be here. And she's like, yeah, mom, I'll just see it later. Yeah. You know, but they're my best friends. And it does get easy. They have their hiccups. John and Taylor were screaming at each other this morning, trying to get ready. And I'm trying to curl my hair. I'm like, y'all need to stop.   It is so fun. Yeah. And I think sometimes and Abby and I have each other as sounding boards. When it feels too much, you just have to take that step back and realize. Absolutely. It's another day. Absolutely. It's going to be okay, you know, but I think it is hard to balance the work and the kids. And you're trying to make sure you work out every day. Yes.  And if you don't get it in, it's okay. Right. Exactly. I know. But it is, there's a lot that, that weighs on us. I think as women and as mothers constantly and that will probably never go away, but there's, I'm sure there's a biological reason. If someone could tell me what it is, that would be very... That's why our children are alive. If we did not have that. But, and I'm sure that John is, you know, I know he's probably physically not as present as some fathers for good reason. But, you know, Abby and I have very supportive husbands that are 50, 50, you know, with us and all the things and feel very lucky. Because even with that, it's still hard. Right. Right. So, I can't imagine, Jamie, how you do it props to you. It's been hard at times. But at the same time, we've been blessed to where when we moved, I don't know, our third time and we had Taylor, our oldest at four months old. We moved from Georgia to Texas. And what we did is we took my salary out of it. And because in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm in this alone. There's how to, I don't know how I would have done it working. But that's just me. Like I praise you, working moms so much. But my anxiety could not handle it. You know, I'm like, I just knew what would be best for me. And we took my salary out and we lived on peanut butter. You know what I mean? Yeah. But we were able to grow and do that. And I was able to be with the girls and it did help me just handle things better.  I mean, there were times it would be two weeks at a time and not living near family. No. That was tough. That's so hard. That's why I relied a lot on my page that lived across the street, you know, and her husband helped so much. But it is, it's part of the job. And that's what, you know, when I laugh because John literally gave me an ultimatum when we were dating for one month. He said, look, this is my career. And at the time he was coaching and he was like, this is my career.  And if this is going to continue, I need you to know that you're probably going to move. Because at the time we were in Louisiana. And I was like, you know what? That sounds like fun. I'll move. You know, I didn't realize it would be like eight moves. Yeah. Yeah. Was there a cap at the number of times? No. There were plenty of tears. Yeah. But I just did it. It's day by day. It's day by day. It is. Yeah. It's day by day.  If an opportunity presents itself. And it makes sense for your family and you personally. I would never want to look back and say, we made the wrong decision by not doing something. Exactly. Exactly. So once I think you get into that mentality, it's like, yeah, let's try it if it fails. We move on. Exactly. We go in a different direction. Exactly. But it's tough to do that. It's tough. Now, I will tell you, my mom's from New Zealand, met my dad at 19 years old in Sydney, Australia. My gosh. Moved to the states. They lived in Louisiana. So my mom had no family and then my dad worked offshore seven and seven. So he was home for seven days, off for seven days. So I didn't have your typical dad home all the time. So I personally never knew what it was like. So I really think that that helped me with John and his career, you know, and not having him around. Yeah. And I laugh. I'm like, good. Thank God, because we're really happy now. I don't know how that would work. Oh, my gosh. Tell our audience how they can find Bookable or you're going to have events ongoing, right? We are always posting new events all the time and you can this is Bookable and this is Bookable.com. And if you just, I love it, Google Bookable. I can't wait. I'm already thinking, ooh, I know. Girls night. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Let me have to take off. She's not allowed to work that night. Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you for being here. You know, I love you and I appreciate you so much. I enjoy meeting you so much. Same and we can talk wine We want to thank Caitlin Silver Howard for being on today. It was just such a joy to talk to her and hear from another mom and a woman in business who's doing it all. Yes. She was so impressive from the background of her husband and then being nine months pregnant and launching this business. That blew my mind. I know. She's incredible. Thank you guys so much for listening to Out of Bounds with Jamie and Abby. We are going to have fun. Cheers to us. I love you. We love you. We are going to have fun. Yes, we are.


Hello, welcome to Clock Talk. I'm Crystal here Tuesday morning. We're going to talk about something quite spiritual, but I don't know how spiritual you are or where you sit on this world of religion, but you know everybody has their beliefs and I want to pinpoint some concept of celibacy in religion because why? Why is it that the church and why is it that so many religions are male dominated? There are a couple that aren't. I'm not trying to be a woman's rights advocate for the church right now, but it's an interesting topic on why the importance of celibacy and why men dominate it. I've got two really interesting men here today. They're like, why are we here? We should be, you know, but you will find out soon enough. Let me introduce them and it will explain itself. I've got two very, so now they wear very different hats, but today I'm going to put one on them more specifically than the others. Next to me is the lovely Greg Kinkley, who, why don't you introduce yourself? You've got so many hats that I don't feel like do justice to. Well, I'm a deputy attorney general for the state of Hawaii. I thought you said you were going to say that, you see? He exposed himself already. Oh, you're in trouble now. But nothing that I say has anything to do with state policy. Can you write that in? Yes, I will. I'm also a lay leader for services in the conservative temple here at Anahu, a congregation of Marat. Okay. I teach Talmud on the side. Very interesting. Okay, worldly man. Roy, this is Roy Chiu. And I am Roy Chiu. I'm a co-founder of Island Film Group, which is a local production and financing company for film, television and commercials. But I think the background of my life that's relevant to today's topic is that I was a lecturer in a Catholic church locally for about 10 years and I served on that church's pastoral council for about three or four years. And so I've grown up as a Catholic and was raised that way. But nowadays I tend to focus more on spirituality than religion. So that hopefully will be relevant to the topic. Oh, absolutely. Why don't we start with that? What is the difference between spirituality and religion for a lot of people? In my mind, spirituality deals with your relationship with God, whereas religion incorporates the doctrine of the church that you belong to or follow. And so religious doctrine is something that has been ingrained in me since I was very young. And thinking about today's topic, it made me think that for a lot of people who grew up in a certain religion because their parents kind of put them into that church, they didn't really question what they were taught. They were just told to believe that what they were taught was true. And in my case, I just reached the point in my youth when I was 15, 16, when I started to ask questions about religion and I wasn't getting the answers that were satisfying me in order for me to continue following the religion of Catholicism strictly as it was meant to be. And so I found myself kind of drifting more towards a liberal version of Catholicism, if you will. And so I think the most essential aspect of Christianity and even Catholicism is compassion. If you are compassionate to your fellow human being, you are living a Christian life. And so whether or not you believe whether Jesus turned water into wine or whether he walked on water, all those things are interesting. But to me, they're not really relevant to my faith, my relationship with God. What's important to me is expressing and acting out in compassion towards your fellow human mankind. So quickly, what is your take on celibacy in the church? So it's interesting. I did a little bit of research and actually in the first three centuries of Catholicism, celibacy was not a doctrine or a requirement. The priests were married, right? Yeah. In fact, one of the apostles had a wife and the Bible refers to the apostles and their wives. And it wasn't until like 11 in the 1136 timeframe when the church put into place this rule that priests had to be celibate. And it's interesting, over time, if we jump forward actually to modern day, there are even the Catholic Church has been open to certain Christians from other churches joining the Catholic Church if they want to because, and there's one example of a Christian church came up in the name of it, but certain priests felt like the church was getting too liberal and they were wanted to stay more conservative. The Catholic Church kind of opened its doors to them joining, but some of these men were married and the Catholic Church is willing to make an exception for them. But so if you were married before you switched over, it was okay. Right. And that seems to be the way it goes even for the other exceptions that the Catholic Church makes. For example, deacons can be married and join the Catholic Church and perform weddings and funerals and other Catholic rituals. What they can't do is give communion, which is very specific, right? Because that represents the purity of the bread of life. Going back to clarify that, that if previously married priests were allowed to change over, going back to the topic of celibacy, does that mean that because they're married, they can continue having sex, but if you didn't get in before you were technically married, you're not allowed. Okay, Greg, let's hear you talk about this. Well, of course, Judaism takes a completely different... And I want to say rabbis allow women, so it's a really interesting contrast. Yes, somewhat ironically, when you mentioned 1136, that's just about the time the Jews came out with the edict that you can't be married to more than one woman. Oh, okay. Well, then that's better. Still in the Torah, maybe I have to lay a little bit of foundation here. The Jewish approach to faith begins with the doctrine of the Torah containing all of the laws that we follow. The Torah is the first five books of what Roy would call the Old Testament. Correct. Okay, so Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. We look at that not so much as a book as more of a law book that is told through stories of a very dysfunctional family. So by having the context of this family with all these beefs, you know, people getting beat up on each other, taking each other's heritage and stuff, we have found 613 laws in the Torah. None of them say anything about not getting married or remaining a celibate. So the Occam's razor is, if it's not in there, we don't do that. But I understand that they kind of created this celibacy rule because of the land-owning years ago when they had the priests who had wanted to have claim. Is that right? That is an often repeated sociological and political explanation for the Christian experience. It's nothing like that. I actually have not heard that. For the Christian side, it's always been that celibacy is a necessary part of a priest's way of life in order to more fully reflect the fact that he's so devoted to Jesus. And the whole point really is to kind of mimic the life of Jesus. And the assumption there is that Jesus himself was celibate, which I don't know if that's true or not. Was he a virgin? Tell me, was he a virgin? Well, I can tell you that because he was a Jewish boy. But first, actually, this point of Roy's is maybe the fulcrum. It's the actual place where we need to bifurcate the two faiths. And it has to do with priesthood. Because after all, the priesthood from the Catholic Church came from the understanding of priesthood and Judaism. The thing is, though, that there's something revolutionary in Judaism that for some reason everything went backwards rather than forwards. It still is, right? Political point of view. If you look at the book of Leviticus, children in school learn Leviticus first, actually, in Hebrew school. And everyone wonders, oh, hey, why do you do that? That's the most boring thing there is, right? It's like, oh, put in this much cinnamon and this much acacia and burn it here. But the point is, it was a revolutionary book because inside that superficially boring thing were all of the instructions for how to make sacrifices, what the ingredients were for the holy incense, etc. And since there's universal, the concept of universal education and literacy was always key, what this meant was the priesthood was opening up all the secrets of the priest to every Jew. So there was never any differentiation in terms of understanding or lifestyle between priests and the regular practicing Jews. So the idea of celibacy being foisted upon the priests in order to bring them closer has nothing at all to do with Judaism. We dealt with Torah and Tameans, ritual purity and ritual... But you do mention sacrifice. I want to go back to that between the different religions and what that means in terms of depriving oneself of a natural expression, the sexuality, as men. How do you feel about that? Certainly that is one of the criticisms of the celibacy rule. When Greg was talking, I was thinking too that the whole point of, well, what I gathered from what he was saying was that in the Jewish faith, the secret, so to speak, are available to both priests and the regular people. So there's no mystery, there's no secret sauce in terms of having access to true faith. And I think that's another criticism of the celibacy rule is that, you know, how can a family go to a priest who's never been married for counseling about marital issues? It just doesn't make sense to me. And so somebody who's married would seem to be better qualified to talk to a young couple about marital issues, family issues, because he's lived it. But somebody who has never, and just because he has a closer relationship to God, which theoretically might sound great, but practically it doesn't really help in terms of advising a couple about marital issues about family. So, you know, that's another reason why I just don't think the celibacy rule makes sense. I also find that the biggest contradiction is that the act of lovemaking, the act of sex is for procreation. And that isn't that the essence of the Bible is to create life. I don't know. It's the first commandment. The first commandment in the Torah is, bruvuvuvu, be fruitful and multiply. So we would actually see celibacy as a sin, because it's taking you off the road of the Torah. Celibacy has in fact resulted in sin when you look at all the, you know, the priest molestation cases. Oh, God right. You know, I mean, you feel for them in a way because the rules that they're confined to live by prevent their natural expression. And it's coming out in these ways, which are harming other people. So is it not natural for men to deprive themselves of sex? I think it is not natural to deprive them of the natural urge to have sex. Yes. And it's interesting, because the word celibacy, when I was doing my research doesn't necessarily mean abstaining from sex. It just means being not married.  There's always a loophole, right? That's right. Right? Legal guys. That's right. So it makes me think that maybe at least in the horse historical past, when the rule was in effect, at that time, that they were able to abide by it because it didn't mean abstaining from sex, it just meant abstaining from marriage. Maybe those priests, of course, that too was subject to the Jewish interpretation, because the primitive Christians were Jews. So when they look at celibacy, which means colin, Liba, right, living alone, a man couldn't live alone with a woman under Jewish law unless there was intercourse. So that was just understood. That was understood, right? But then it developed over time. So what about something like masturbation? Because even in the church, that's highly, highly evil and shunned on. Why? Why? Right. Okay, so let's talk about that. I haven't researched where in the Bible it says that, but you know, the only downside from a spiritual aspect is that you are now not using that seed in order to promulgate your race to have children. So it's a waste of energy or a waste of your spirit, maybe. Not to speak for Christians, but I thought the idea from the Catholic point of view is that might have been Messiah there that just went up. So that's the assumption that each sperm is carrying an individual identity. There raises another question of when does that identity actually come into being? Is it after the connection between sperm and egg? Or is it before? And I kind of think it's after but I have no proof. That's just my own view. So what did you take on abortion then? Abortion is a very difficult subject because I grew up obviously with the, you know, Christian Catholic way of thinking. Right, fair enough. And whenever you have any joining of sperm and egg, it makes me question, at what point does life begin? And I think that's, you know, if you were to, if life begins at that moment, and you're killing that life, then is that murder? And of course, in Roe v. Wade, you know, they actually went through, Justice Blackman went through and the other justices who agreed with the decision, went through the trimesters and tried to analyze when a fetus is viable. And that's a whole other way to approach it. But from a religious standpoint, I can certainly understand the people who are, you know, who believe that life begins at the moment of the union between sperm and egg. It's a difficult subject. Well, yes, in the there's some light given to this in the Talmud, again, I can't speak even for all Jews, let alone old men. But there is a biblical verse that has to do with tort law when it comes into the Talmud about two men fighting each other. And then a pregnant woman comes along and one of them accidentally hits her and causes her to miscarry. Their monetary damage is given to the husband of the pregnant woman. Now, quite irrespective of what you might think of all these other things, because yes, women were chatteled back then in every religion, unfortunately, it shows that they were dosing it to a property claim. So that means it wasn't considered life. Because it would be capital if they've lost a life. I mean, that's the inference. Well, that's why we have kids, though, right? It's all for investments of somebody to take care of us in the end, it's all a big investment. But does that does that mean that life only begins after based on what you put us on that example? That's a reasonable inference. Are you looking to get shrunk? Join us on shrink wrap Hawaii. My name is Steven Philip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I see couples, individuals, families, because you know why? Because we all have problems. And if you're curious about shrinks and what they talk about, come look at my show shrink wrap Hawaii. And maybe you'll find your shrink. Aloha, Kako. I'm Marcia Joyner, inviting you to navigate the journey with us. We are here every Wednesday morning at 11am. And we really want you to be with us, where we look at the options and choices of end of life care. Aloha. You know, it's the same back here on Fox Talk talking to two very interesting men about a celibacy in religion. Now, this is a huge topic, but we're going to just try to open it up a little bit and see what interesting things come out of it. We're talking and arguing, but we have different views on on celibacy on masturbation on on whether women should be allowed to take part in the church. And I want to recap that celibacy, this this issue. There are, you know, their websites on on promoting celibacy. And what's the benefit of it?  It's a sense of empowerment and self worth. So there are a lot of ways that people can convince you that this is the way to go to keep yourself clean and pure. So going back to this, how do you feel about that and how your religion kind of takes on that concept of purity? Well, yeah, something that at least is translated as purity is something very central to Judaism. Indeed, one might say that Judaism is based on a very bifurcated form of discrimination, discrimination between holy and not holy. So not holy doesn't mean profane, although it's often translated that way. That's what the church tends to do, right? It's the right or wrong. Yes, the complication is when it that got transferred into Christianity, it got twisted a little bit from the Jewish point of view. First of all, there's another challenge we need to start with the forebear of both Judaism and Christianity was a Judaism that was a temple cult and they sacrificed, you know, was like a big Mac all the time, right? They had a huge barbecue right there in Jerusalem all day. That got stopped by the Romans. So Judaism either had to morph and change physically, maybe even emotionally what it was or give up. And what we did is we changed. We started to offer prayers instead of sacrifices. But we needed to keep the concept of holy and not holy. The twist with Christianity is because you have their priestly class, which is seen as an intercessor. There somehow I think you even use the word closer to God as it were. This is a concept that would be totally foreign to to a Jew. Our God is everywhere and nowhere at once, not in anything yet in everything as it were. So we all have our chance to to be together and to be with the one. Okay. So the purity as a religious concept is no longer really viable on a day to day basis. But why is it that women on in the general sense of world religions tends to be kind of an outcast? Or are they not deemed pure enough to represent the church or that is a point there is this concept of Nidda the menstruant woman right for Jewish studies among the Orthodox certainly and any practicing observant you're forbidden to have intercourse with your wife during a seven day period either side of the menstruation. That's because it's tied to the blood which was seen as the essence of life itself. And again, this is a matter of holiness. It wasn't that it was unclean. That term really has no purchase. It's that it was so suffused with this concept of holiness, because that's life itself.  So what's your take on that? In the Catholic faith, we actually growing up at least my understanding was that we celebrate women because you know, the mother of Jesus has a very revered place in Christian doctrine. There's a, you know, Holy Mary mother of God prayer that celebrates her praise for our centers now and at the hour of our death. And that prayer along with the Lord's prayer are often said together. I know I say it together. And so I've always thought that women were celebrated as a maternal figure, but not as a leader. So do you see like if you look at how we're all educated and boiled down to how this patriarchal kind of society kind of stems from this whole church concept, agree? And I see no reason why women cannot be priests and popes even in the Catholic church. I see no reason. Why? Why should there be any difference between men, women in terms of being able to act as an intercessor, you know, a bridge between the people and God. So you are very liberal and going feeding on that is how do you feel that you think the Pope's on the right path to say that we should be considering married men? So this kind of gets to what I heard Greg talk about in the Jewish faith where, you know, that you kind of take out the mystery between the rabbis and the people. I think that, you know, the notion of we have to change or die is very applicable in the Catholic Church. And there's even a book that I have called Why the Catholic Church Must Change or Die. And I think that Pope Francis is kind of starting that process of showing that the Catholic faith can change. He's initiating changes. He's the one who even said that unmarried priests, right? Sorry, that married priests may be able to serve, although he tried to couch it, I think to satisfy the conservative priests in the outlying areas where there is a shortage of priests and there's a shortage worldwide. Do you think it's kind of a business motivation behind this whole, you know, instigation? Maybe.  I think he's generally more liberal person. And I think his leadership, I think is helping a lot of people who are disenchanted with the Catholic faith, like myself, to maybe reconsider it and to come back into the folds of the church. I don't know where I'm going to go on that, but my own personal journey with God is a personal one. But it's nice to see that Pope Francis is thinking more along the lines that I am. So where does woman sit in your world of not just religion, but in your life and how maybe perhaps religion kind of morphed that concept of women in your life? Well, in my own personal practice, although we're called conservative, you have to know the history of the development of Judaism. So conservative is very, very liberal next to the orthodox. Right. We, the orthodox would not allow a woman to touch the Torah, to read from the Torah, to take what we call an aliyah, where they say the blessing. We do all that. They lead our services. It's a common place. There's no discrimination one way or the other. The idea of women in religion, though, is very complex, though, because I think I'm not sure if it's Carter horse, but the fact of the matter is women have always been subjugated and treated as chattel throughout the generations. Religion sometimes just picked up on that or took that for granted and then maybe solidified it into a tradition. But some of the things that Judaism did even anciently that were seen as positive for women, like guaranteeing her divorce rights in a certain amount upon being divorced, those were still paternalistic, right? Those were, there was nothing giving them the say and saying, okay, you go girl, but that's something that just doesn't happen in any religion until I'd say this century or the beginning of the 20th century, for maybe all religions. We all have to work on it, honestly. I've never heard of a rational argument as to why women cannot serve in the priesthood in the Christian or Catholic faith or in any faith for that matter. What about even like nuns? I mean, that's just kind of like a, I guess, a category in their own sense, because they uphold celibacy, but does that make them more pure to do what? I mean, what's their influence? It's the same whether or not you have to use that argument for nuns as for male priests. Yes. And they're equally invalid in my view. Well, there's a technical legal argument for why women shouldn't be rabbis. Okay. If by rabbi you mean someone that leads a congregation in prayer, and again, rabbis don't necessarily have to do that at all, but there's a technical legal reason why women, if you're orthodox, shouldn't lead prayer, and has nothing to do with sex or anything else. It's that, again, we're driven by the mitzvahs, by the commandments. You can only fulfill a mitzvah if the Torah says that you're supposed to do it. Women do not have a statutory obligation to pray. Only men do. So if a woman leads a service, there are others who can't say every word in Hebrew the way they get the benefit of that and fulfill their obligation is by saying amen at the end. That's where amen came in in Christianity.  But that obligation is written out in what in the Torah, and so everyone just upholds that. Yes, it's really developed through the Talmud, I would say. It's complex. But coming to the modern century, a woman can take on those mitzvahs, and then she is obligated, and then she can. So how much is this going to or have the potential to morph? I mean, look at gender issues now. You know, the concept of transgender, where does that person stand in the voice of God, or in the church, or in the synagogue? Where do we place that? Again, I see no reason why a person's sexual orientation has anything to do with his ability to share the teachings of Christ with Christians or to, you know, perform all these ceremonies. To me, it's totally irrelevant. If they are sincere in their approach, anyone can do it. Roy, if everybody was as liberal as you, they wouldn't have so many issues out there.  Seriously. I know. And all the objections that I hear, to me, just don't make sense. They're all based on some notion of sexism or discrimination that was taught when they were young or, you know, that they carry and it's an emotional, you know, for a stubbornness that's preventing them from being open-minded about the possibilities. And I feel like once you kind of let go of that resistance, all whole world of possibilities become, you know, visible. So you think part of it is because of that underlying repression, if you will, that women don't feel that urge or that kind of stimulation to want to challenge these old traditions. I was thinking about this, too, when I was growing up and everything was sort of accepted in terms of how life was and how religion was, even the issue of women struggles wasn't really in my face growing up in Hong Kong because women, and my mother worked, but a lot of women didn't. They were at home moms and so on. And they never, at least to me, objected and said, gee, I wish women had a better station in life. That didn't really happen for me in terms of my seeing it until I came to America. And then when I was exposed to that and heard about it and saw about and talked to people about it, I realized this is a very important struggle. And it wasn't that it, that struggle wasn't there in Asia. It's just that women are not as vocal about it, maybe because they're not as, I don't know why. Okay. But you brought out some very interesting, unfortunately we were running out of time, so again, this is in this conversation, but I do believe that the spirituality that both of you have in your deep heart kind of runs through your work. I know you're both had legal backgrounds. Roy, you're a film producer and you have many, many big projects to work on and I'm sure you're going to be embedding that in there. And for Greg, obviously in your teachings and your linguists and your multi-cultural background, it's just fascinating that you have found a way to kind of incorporate spirituality in our work in life. There you go. So again, find your own spirituality, I guess, if that would, it is right? And then celibacy is just a small little kind of a thing that we wanted to pray for to open up this conversation. So thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for joining our conversation. Thank you.


Hey there friends, thanks for checking in. Today we're looking at my newest and favorite semi-auto handgun right here called the Beretta 92X Performance. Check that out. A beautifully looking and shooting handgun. I took it to the range already and I fell in love with it. I said this is a handgun that I've been looking for. Very smooth, very accurate. It was so natural for me and I was so pleased. I love it. I'm calling this my favorite handgun. Now a while back my friend allowed me to review his Beretta M9A3 and I said to myself I wanted one of these for years. I really like the color combination, the features and the way it's shot at the range. I said one day I will get that M9A3 guaranteed. I just knew I had to have it. But then I took a deeper look at the 92X series that were introduced in 2019, so about two and a half years ago and I checked out this performance model and I said well there it is. That's the one. And I finally got my hands on it. Now when you grip this gun the first thing you notice is the weight. It has a lot of heft to it and that is because it has a stainless steel frame opposed to the aluminum frame on the M9 models. So it adds weight. It's geared toward competition and it would be a great competition choice because it's an amazing shooter. Let's get into it. Check out that texturing on the back strap.  They offer a rubber grip in case you want a wider grip to fill your hand. But I'll show that when I introduce the case because that in and of itself is very cool. Fifteen round magazines will accept the larger mags that many of the Breda M9s have, a rubber base plate, a tapered mag, a beveled mag well for those quick mag changes and that front strap is just beautiful. The magazine release sticks out quite a bit. Nice reach with the thumb. You don't have to change your angle of your grip. It does have an extended beaver tail, skeletonized hammer and an ambidextrous frame mounted thumb safety. It is left-handed friendly and when engaged it will lock the trigger and the slide. So nothing's happening there. You could carry a cocked and locked for those who would actually carry this gun. Just wait until we get it on the scale. You'll see what I'm talking about. Here we have an unloaded firearm. And now the sights have a black serrated rear sight adjustable both windage and elevation and a fiber optic front sight. But the trigger is what Breda is calling an extreme S trigger. They lightened the hammer spring. So the single action trigger pull you're looking at four pounds and a very short reset. Right there. But what I find equally impressive is the double action pull. Now your average double action single action handgun has a pull right around 10, 12 pounds. Ten would actually be light. I am measuring this double action pull at seven pounds which is amongst the smoothest well actually this is the smoothest double action trigger I have ever felt in a double action single action handgun seven pounds that is much lighter. So that is the extreme S trigger that they added with the 92X models and it's included with this performance. See those very thin front serrations and rear serrations. Breda is calling this sawtooth serrations. That cut there is like sawtooth. A full pick rail there, 4.9 inch barrel. I'll take a look at it. I like to weigh the black trigger, thumb safety, the grip, the sights, the barrel accent with the stainless steel look to it. The takedown lever is a match grade. You can see how far it comes out there. They're calling that a match grade takedown lever. It's also an enhanced feature with this. You could rest your weak side thumb when shooting. I don't recall doing that when I was at the range but possibly I did, I'm not sure. But let's take a look at this case. They give you a lockable case that allows you to travel with the pistol and the MSRP on this. This isn't something that you're going to buy on a whim. Maybe, if you fell in love with it the way I did, $1,499, $1,500 will get you the 92X. Now here's the rubber grip I talked about. Let's come with two magazines, speed loader, a huge user manual, a huge one, and this lockable case. The M983 came in an ammo can case and I thought that was cool. But when that one came with that big lockable case, I said that is very nice. Love the trigger, love the look, love the heft of it. Let's take a look at the internals. Just pushing that button there, take this takedown lever, move it downward, comes right off just like that. And here you have a uncaptured recoil spring, steel guide rod, and your 4.9 inch barrel. Let's see if we can get that out. There it is, 4.9 inch barrel and a very well machined slide, Brigadier slide. And you make sure that is fully inserted there. Is it? It is. You move this spring back, you know, it takes a lot for me to say this is my favorite shooting handgun. You know, I review a lot of handguns, but I honestly can say that with confidence after I took this to the range. Let's just go ahead and roll through some of that footage, we'll come back in, get it on the scale. 25 yards. I told you this was heavy, I certainly was not joking. Check out the unloaded weight, 3 pounds and a half ounces, just ounces 48 and 3 eighths if we add 15 rounds in the mag there, we're looking at 54 and 3 quarters. There we have 55 and a quarter ounces. So this is no doubt a heavy handgun. And that's what you'd expect with an all steel frame. It certainly decreases the recoil, the little bit of recoil that 9mm will offer. But it's a beautiful looking and shooting handgun. I am overly excited. You know, for a guy who has more than a couple handguns, I am overly excited over this 92x performance. I plan to do a lot with it and I'm certainly going to show it off some more because it is worthy of that. And I hope you like it because you may see this again fairly shortly. If you like videos like this, please subscribe and share. I always appreciate thumbs up button. Thanks for watching and you guys be safe.