Because investors like us realize that the digital economy is more important than the traditional economy. Traditional economy in India is a laggard. The digital economy is what is taking in the growth. So if you are part of the digital economy, then the assets today, believe me or not, are still cheap. So if you can get hold of a share of 30M or a Nike or a Zomato, just grab it and keep it and forget about it. That's what we did 20 or 30 years ago when we bought Reliance. So it's not expensive. And there are hardly any players in the digital economy. If you see there are less than a dozen players in the digital economy and they're driving this economy crazy. And if more and more unicorns get created, more of them come for investors in the retail market, the more this digital economy grows. So all of you, what this is going to urge you all of you, that think that you're part of the digital economy, you are not part of the legacy economy. So every rupee you spend today, 60% of that goes to the digital economy. Only 40% of that goes to the traditional legacy player. So where is the money going that you are spending? It's going to the digital economy. So it's important to realize that when you buy a bottle of shampoo, who's making the money? The logistics company, the warehousing company, which are all driven by technology. So you, as long as you believe that you're part of the digital economy, you have a chance to become rich. If you continue to believe that you're contributing and you're part of the legacy economy, then you're going to lag behind. So start thinking differently. And that's how things will happen. Now I'm a fan of Indian everyday economy.  That's what I call the digital economy. If you are transacting, if any venture or any founder who comes to me and he tells me that, yes, he's part of the digital economy and that everyone would transact on him, that's where the money goes. So if you are commuting in the metro rather than commuting on your bike or in a car, I normally ask, whenever a founder comes and sees me, I normally ask that, how has he traveled? If he says he traveled on the metro, he gets 100 out of 100. If he says he's traveled on his bike or on his car, then he gets a minus because he's not part of the digital economy. So whether it's your environment or whatever it is, you have to think future, right? But in the sense that whether my kids, I'm allowing them to breathe pure oxygen 30 years down the road or not, whether I'm contributing it for it today or not. And if I believe that I'm not going to contribute, then I don't have a right to live. We have to live for the future. As I said, we have to live in the future. We have to think in the future. And all our actions today have to be geared towards the next generation which we are going to be actually responsible for. So I think if you believe in the future, then it's not only just making money. It's believing in the future in all respects. Impossible. I'm just told the times above because I have lots of things to show you, but we can do it some other time. But I can take some questions. I don't know how to figure this piece of technology is going back. No, that's fine. That's fine. Now, if you see that the mobile first, right, how large we are, we have overtaken China in terms of the economy. Now, if everyone says that we are at least about in terms of economy, we are the fourth or fifth largest economy. But as I say, we are the largest digital economy in the world. And that's what we should actually be believing. The internet economy grows at 3X, right? If you look at the traditional economy, how it is growing, right? We always say that the Indian GDP will grow at a pace of say 6%, 7%, 8%. And if it grows in double digits at 11%, you know, the economy is doing great. But everyone forget that the digital economy is growing 3X almost every year. And that's the real economy. So India is going to be a digital powerhouse. I call it the Duggernaut, right? And that's what it is. Now, we have moved up, we're moving up the ladder from adoption, right? Going up to actually, you may say that it becomes part of our lives. So I think, as I said, invest in emerging opportunities that are transforming the everyday economy. It's extremely important. And when I'm saying this to Anand Goenka, he said that he's still got some 200 million people on his digital platform, right? I can tell him that if he learns how to monetize those 200 million people under different products, he'll be happier. And if he's going to continue to invest behind his legacy branch and go from Indian Express English to Bangalore to Tamil and others, right? Good luck to him, but if you want to be rich, be part of the digital economy. That's all I have to say. Although I have something more to say, but any questions I'll take now, but just... Goenka, can I take questions? If there are any questions? And he's already invested in Indian investment. The guy who has 2-3 lakh rupees, but he's a digital marketer, who is able to help with any investment in 11 companies, they're set to exist and they don't have to work for the rest of their lives. So what is your advice to professionals in this room in terms of angel investing, if it's long-term success? Not investing in companies that are thinking of their own business or their day job. Yeah, I think it's good to talk about angel investing and you do hear stories where people have become billionaires at a relatively young age, right? But very few people hear about the number of people who lose money and don't do well, right? I think you have a larger number of failures than you have successes, right? But my advice to the young people here is that if you have money to spare, then pool your money and then look and invest in ventures which you know of, right? Which you believe in, right? As I said that if you believe in the future, then think future. You're young, you're 25, 30 or 40, right? You have another, almost by the time you grow old, probably the mortality will go up to 100 plus years, right? You have so many years to live, right? So go and take the risk, invest in startups. I started my investing with investing in startups and I've been fortunate and lucky, right? And my only thing was that one thing you have to be careful that you will get your exit and you'll get your make money not overnight. It's not a stock exchange, right? You have to have patience. It takes five to seven to ten years to make money. And when I invest money and I know that my horizon of exit is going to be seven to ten years, then I think that how old would the founder be when I'm looking at the exit? If the founder is going to be still be below 40, then I'll not invest behind him, right? But if I believe that the founder is going to be 40 plus by the time I'm going to get in my exit, I'm going to invest behind him. The reason is that the future investor in his company is going to be a person with a gray hair, right? He wants maturity in the investment in the founding team. He wants a mature management team which he's acquiring. So your founders in which you are investing should be actually 40 plus in seven to ten years. You're investing behind not an 18 year or 20 year old founder, but you're investing behind a 28 to about 30, 32 year old founder so that by the time he can offer you an exit, he's 40 plus. So his credibility is much more with investors who are actually going to give you the exit. So you can be rich and if you are still starting your career, I have an interesting, I don't know whether you can store it, the jobs I know the time is over is about some jobs, right? So how we scan the future, I'll tell you that what are the emerging jobs? Very few people realize that. I don't know whether it's there or not. Not this one, there is one more. Yeah, now the 20 fastest growing plus declining jobs. I don't know how many have you seen. Now this is the biggest guide for investors like us. All of you in this room, I can challenge you will have no jobs in the next five to seven years. All of you are going to be out of jobs. Now if you see who's gaining jobs, animal trainer, is this the fastest growing job category is animal trainers. Your pet trainer, your dog trainer is the fastest growing job category in this country. So just look at the jobs that you're growing. Home health and personal care rates. Now and just the declining jobs, right? The traditional jobs are nowhere to be seen. So this is the impact of the digital economy. When you are part of the digital economy, you have so much time on you, right? You can afford a pet. You have the time to look after your pet, right?  And that's why there's so much of investment going behind pet startups. So when you are becoming an investor, right? You think far, far ahead and these are the path. These are the cues that you get, right? Where the future is moving. It's extremely important, right? So I think this slide, if you can assimilate, right? We'll tell you that what you should look for in the future. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. That was quite an insightful session. So please be back. Well, thank you so much, sir. That was quite an insightful session. And next I would like to call upon an announcement for the speaker session here about. I would be enlightening you a bit about the concerned personality here who I would shortly be welcoming here on the stage. Straight out of college, he has started his career at Magnon two decades ago. The 300th member Magnon Group today is part of Fortune 500 Omnikom Group. Of its three agencies, Magnon EG Plus, Magnon Distillery and Magnon Sanctus. Vivek leads Magnon EG Plus across international markets, including North America, Europe, Australia and Middle East, apart from India. Vivek was named managing director of Magnon EG Plus in 2014 at the young age of 33. This made him perhaps the youngest ever MD of multinational agency in India. He has been profiled as a key study in the best-seller book, 30-something CEO. And he will be speaking on the topic, finding inspiration. How can digital marketers stay innovative in a world full of cliches? Please put your hands up in the air. And with a huge round of applause, let's welcome Mr. Vivek Marani, MD, Magnon EG Plus here on Dye2Dye. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know where that was added. It's really good to be in a physical event after a very long time. I'm third. And Dr. Anurag, thank you very much. The welcome was very warm and I just couldn't refuse. And I think you have a great first-mover advantage of getting back to the real world in that sense. So thank you very much for having me over here. I know a lot of you have been sitting down for a long time. So, you know, in my house, maybe that thing, you've been sitting too long. And when you're in a work-from-home environment, you could very easily get up and do that. So, you know, I will give you the chance to please stand up, all of you. You can stretch a little bit and move. No, I'm serious. It's good for your health. Yeah, so okay. Okay, right. I'm sure the blood circulation starts moving now. Okay, I've switched on my timer. And I have my colleague over here who's also said that, you know, I speak a lot. I will do my best to convey what I have to do as fast as possible. All right. Okay, so that's a, it's a very non-cliché topic and I felt it was very nice. Thank you. So the topic is very nice. It's not cliché for a photo change. I felt that that was, you know, the good thing.  That's a teeny button. I press all the buttons and see what happens. So if it's not working, it's okay. Okay, perfect. So cliché lack of original thought. So how does, you know, and we're surrounded by with a lot of clichés and how do we break free from that? How do we innovate? How many of you just for me to get a sense, how many of you over here have been on the agency side in the past or currently are? Okay. Okay, that's just a few hands. How many people, how many of you have been on the brand side, on the marketing side? You know, and who've been asked to do something innovative? Okay. A few more hands. All right. So, you know, innovation tends to be the constant pressure on, you know, on people like us from the agency side who are like, I don't know. And it should fit my brand and it should make sense and it should be in line with what's happening in the market. Usually that's the brief. So that's where the original thought comes in and, you know, and how do you actually start thinking on those lines from there? You know, what you really need to do, you know, the original ideas that you need to do. So the first cliché is in the advertising and agency world, the first cliché is get drunk. Right. So the creativity flows to the fully. Right. It's just not with our generation. You know, I read about this with the Greeks and they used to do this. The Greeks used to actually, they used to actually take the sessions of think of ideas when they were in a state of intoxication. But they also had this rule that when you're drunk, you will think of ideas, but you will pass it in the parliament when you're sane. So, you know, that used to be the practice. So I think that is one of the clichés, which is, you know, which surrounds our industry. And that's visual from Mad Men. And I always wondered, they're all always constantly drinking. They only just drink all the time, you know, but I'm not sure if this is quite sustainable in terms of innovation. So what I've been inspired by for innovation and thinking of good ideas is, you know, what I'd like to share. The pandemic, you know, made me read a few books around this subject and topic. And, you know, it excited me about getting to know how you can think of better things and what you can do. Because, you know, it's a part of my job. A lot of our people back at Magnon to be innovative and to think of good ideas. Yes, so it's a bit laggy. I'll press it. I'll press it in a few minutes. Is it a solution? No, I'll press it first. Right. So, okay. So, you know, there's this book called, Where Good Ideas Come From. And I was very inspired by this book. And it said something like, you have these slow hunches, you know. And figure it for yourself. You probably would do that also. That you have this idea. I think I can't crack it, but it's there. Something in my mind, right? That's a hunch. And then you have a lot of these slow hunches, right?  But you're unable to kind of tie it together. It happens with me a lot. And, you know, what I try and do is now I know consciously that, you know, this is how good ideas happen. It starts with a slow hunch. And whenever this move forward, I will reveal what the slow hunch is. That's me. Okay. I'll just keep trying. So these slow hunches eventually, so you have a lot of the cluster of these slow hunches. And when you have a lot of these slow hunches, they start colliding with each other. And over a period of time, you get this, whoa. Okay. Now I know what happened. So the slow hunches came together and showed you the full vision. Okay. I was going back slow also. I am just so agency type and so dependent on a presentation because I think it brings out the, you know, brings out the story. So now I know that every time I press a button, action will happen, not now, but maybe in the future. So the slow hunch is a concept is the first inspiration. So I think I was aware of what the slow hunch is about. And eventually a vision will come up. And, you know, that's, that's the thought of how it is the vision on this screen also will come up. The next concept is something called adjacent possible, but in the buyer. So adjacent possible is exactly by this person called Stuart Hoffman, you know, who's written on biological evolution. Biological evolution has been is the biggest innovation in whatever we can imagine is from atoms to human beings and AI and you know where we've got to obviously take two billions of years. So biological evolution says that innovation best happens in the immediate vicinity. So you know, we at times get inspired by technology in a big way. And we figure that the blue area is where we are now. And the circles that you see on the right side are the future possibilities of everything that's possible. You know, I think one of the points that sir was talking about is unlimited. I'll show you some of the cliches and our mind kind of starts going in those. But innovation best happens, which are the most closest adjacent possible. You know, so from how a giraffe's neck over millions of years became longer because that was evolution. Because it was adapting to the next evolution killer next kind of animal came into being, you know. So and that was an innovation, a major innovation. So ideas also tend to come with these adjacent possible. I know your theory. I'll try and get a context in terms of digital marketing. He also eventually in this, you know, in these slides. Now imagine a YouTube in 1990. Do you think it would have been successful?  But the concept was great in 1990, but it would have not been successful. Amazon in 2005 was there was very well there, but it's not the same as it is today. You know, we're getting Amazon packets all the time overnight because the logistics change that, right? So so adjacent possible are adjacent possible pieces where you can innovate in the next piece where the surroundings are right and possible. And that's what needs to be done. So that's the second inspiration. Third is, you know, now there are many of these small, small hunches, those circles that you saw there are circles in the future. Now, when do you really get a great idea or a good idea? Or where do you get it? Right?  Basically, what is the brain? The brain is the neurons firing and a network of neurons called synapses and, you know, creating ideas and memories and stories in your mind. That's that's where, you know, every idea comes from.  And of course, outside the world, you know, events and places where or offices or spaces or people or interaction or networks. So there are networks inside the brain and then there are networks outside the brain.  So those ideas come together and that's what will lead to innovation. So those are my three inspirations. And now in the digital marketing space, and that's where, you know, narrow down and not give more yarn on some of the books that I read on on the brain and ideas and stuff. Now on the digital marketing side, we see that we are surrounded by a lot of cliches.  And why I like this topic was because year on year, you know, there may not be much change happening. Okay, sorry, I'll take that back. A lot of changes happening. But the number of cliches or the number of keywords that, you know, as a marketer, we are shared just keeps increasing. And then it becomes like our pressure to keep up with it. That do we know everything? Oh, if you don't, you know, we'll probably become irrelevant. And, you know, that's the thought that keeps coming to our mind.   But all of them now start gradually coming together. And, and, and these are something that we see inside. So let's adapt. So that's the digital space. You saw some of the cliches. Now these inspirations adapted to how you can innovate. And we'll probably, I'll probably talk to an example that, you know, these were some of the cliches that we as an agency were facing. We work with Nestle. Nestle is one of our clients and they wanted us to do something innovative. Every client wants us to do something innovative.  So the whole thought started with there's a lot of content around, right? We faced this, there's a lot of content around the last two sessions. I think we were centered around content. There's a lot of content that all of us are consuming. We know this. Now this content is creating something called the messy middle, right? This is, you know, Google came up with this report called decoding the messy middle. And it basically said that the consumer journey is not linear anymore. It's, it's very messy. So the trigger to purchase, now imagine yourself that when you think of buying something, you are, you're influenced by a lot. First the product shows up on your Facebook, Insta, you know, on, on Amazon, wherever you've heard about it. So, you know, the product shows up, then you look at reviews, you read reviews, then you're sent more content, you're re marketed that content. You're given more content. So the brain essentially now is being fed a lot of content, right? And how the brain operates is now not necessarily. It's become more complicated like that.  So you expand your options. You want to buy a phone, you will look at five, six, seven phones, you look at budget and then you'll start doing filters and then you narrow down on your options, right? You'll, you'll see blogs, you'll read reviews, you'll see what people are saying about it. You'll do a lot of stuff, right? And then you will narrow down your choices. You will evaluate. So this is like an infinite loop. So for people like me, my wife says that about me, that I am a, my decision-making is slow. So basically I get lost in this loop. So jab mein hi socha tha kharidunga. Aur jab tak kharida, osme boht time lagya. But then I also have a lot of friends who, you know, are able to do this very fast, right? So you go in, you get into this loop. So as a marketer's job or a brand's job, it is to identify those triggers and get people out of the loop to make them buy, right? That's what a marketer is something that we do. Now, within the same report, Google identified that, you know, there are six biases and this is very interesting, okay? Now, now figure this out, that all your brains are coded in the same way. There are six biases that will change, that will happen in our mind to drive us to that purchase. The first is a category heuristic, they call it. So it's a megapixel camera in the same example. Or, you know, what's what's the processor speed? Those are things that you will look at. Then you look at, oh, what is Rajeev Makhani saying about it? Or, you know, what is so-and-so expert, which is the authority bias, you know, looking at it. What are my friends talking about it or somebody who knows about mobile phones? What is he thinking about it? Is that it's a social influence, a social proof is what I will look for. Power of now, may I order, will I get it tomorrow? Oh, this one I'll get after 10 days. No, no, I'll just get this one. It's the power of now, right? A scarcity bias. A scarcity bias. You see those sites? Only two left, only three left. Right? So, it makes us think that, oh my God, I will run out, right? That's called a scarcity bias, right? And then there's the power of free. Anything I do, I see a lot of cameras that come up. Okay, so it's actually a great report, right? You should read this report by Google. The power of free is what am I getting along with it for free, right? It is a big influence. So these six biases play on our mind. Then we also know video rules. Now, this is all cliches, you know. These are all things that are playing on, you know, on our mind when we're thinking about that idea of the Nestle. Now, we've also been told that there's a big focus on something called urban, is rural plus urban, right? Because bottom of the pyramid in India is urban. Now, 90% of people coming onto the internet are speaking vernacular, you know, languages. My colleague over here and friend for 15 years in a way, he has an agency called Magnon Sanctus, which is a group agency which is only a language specialist agency. So now there's consumer segmentation in the country. That's how our country is divided. We speak 22 different languages in our country. We probably know this, but you know, the unfortunate piece is that brands or agencies just speak in English at best in Hindi. Right? But consumers speak all other languages. The, you know, I would say the content ecosystem for news channels is far more evolved than it is for the agency or the brand or the marketing side, because that evolution is yet to happen. So that's like the kind of consumer segmentation that is, you know, that is there. We also see that regional content is more sticky, you know. So, you know, there's this Kerala based animation studio which essentially has more views of 600% more views of their Malayalam content versus English content.  There's so much of it. Hindi content, there's a lot of it. But regional content is very little because, you know, brands have not yet, they have, but, you know, they are increasingly waking up to it. What we realize is that, okay, regional content potential. Now, just coming back, I'm just reading what we started. Now, these are all the ideas that are influencing our minds. Right? That video vernacular, regional content, cognitive biases. Now, we put all of this together. Right? And then what we start doing is, we have to use AI and block chain. So, you know, it's not really, I mean, it's not about just being cool. It's about getting some things right.  And what we identify is that, okay, let's create video content which is vernacular by regional content creators. It's the most logical thing that we come up with. Right?  So, say, okay, get regional influencers and marketers. But now we go a step further and with a liquid network. Okay, my time's up. Okay, we collide with the liquid network and which is talent track, which is India's largest talent aggregator of creators. Right? And talent track has essentially more than 450,000 creators, content creators sitting out there, 15,000 media companies, you know, looking for talent from there, 5,500 influencers. So, we basically work with talent track and we say that, listen, this is our idea. What do we do? We can, how do we take this content to the next level? So, they give us an idea about what good content is and they tell us that good content is which is engaging. Now, imagine yourself, the content that you actually watch.  So, content engagement, like, I mean, what I'm talking about, the content engagement and content relevance. So, genetics and social hacking serialize. So, but basically, influencer content, if you look at it, it's a little bit of a salary. Everybody realizes the influencer has given money, he says to put this content. You know, or speak about my brand. Now, that is not necessarily good quality content. Right? It's not engaging. Good quality, high quality production value, high quality brand alignment, but not necessarily good quality content, right? It's video content. So, what we came up with this whole concept of professionally user generated content, right? It is not influencer content. It is not fully professional content, but it is content at scale, which is unique, which is non-salesy, which advocates brand love and perpetuity and content with same. And then we put in the biases over there and we say that this is the content which actually has social proof. Because we know that brand has not given money, it's not sales. We've got some examples, so I don't think I have time. And then there's the whole brand led content and influencer content which kind of doesn't add up. So, what do we need to achieve this? We need vernacular capabilities, you know, as somebody, as an agency who wants to do this for a brand, hyper-local insights and scalability portion. So, we collided our ideas together with Magnon Sanctus, which is the language business, hyper-local insights from Magnon Designery and Talent Track, which got into the scale because what we needed was more than 200 content creators, right? And I'll give you an example. I'll show you a brief example of how we created video content across 200 video pieces of content for an insight that we got for Milkmaid. So, this was for Milkmaid. You guys know the brand, Milkmaid. They want to do something interesting. Baking is like a big trend. But they said baking in every part of the country is different. So, what is going on in that culture is different. So, we took insight. We took a lot of creators. Talent Track helped us do this and got us insight from all over the country from, you know, hundreds of creators. We got insights from, you know, our design team. We picked up and this was an example. Like this is a Kerala baker, you know, somebody. Now, the influence is not much, but content is organic, right? Over here. And we created videos and we got to know that Banofi Pie in Kerala is trending at that time. Right? And we got her. I don't know if this video will play, but okay, it's in Malayalam. I think there's an audio thing. But you see, there's a very subtle integration of the brand over there, that blue can that you see. And she's not saying much. Malayalam and most of you will still not understand. But, you know, she's just saying, I'm using Milkmaid. And then it's the whole recipe of how to buy Banofi Pie in Malayalam. And imagine seeding that kind of content in hundreds is what, you know, we achieved with the brand. And we came up with this whole idea around you know, how we use professional user generated content and that from our mind was a long-term idea. And we moved from just a cliche to an innovation and with the journey in between from hunches to creators to, you know, ideas colliding with each other. And then of course we had a drink and celebrate this. So thank you very much. That's a little bit about our agency. We're a part of the Omnicom Group and ED Plus is Omnicom's largest production hub. We are the India business called Magnon. We were acquired 10 years back and those are our three agencies. We're about 350 people. Thank you very much. Well, thank you so very much. I request you to please stay back. Please stay back on stage. Yes, it gives me great pleasure to invite Mr. Divyam Chaturvedi, Business Director Sales to give the memento to Mr. Vivek Medani, we serve from we serve please request you to please come up on stage. Please ladies and gentlemen put your hands together. Louder. Thank you so much. Thank you. Can you please put our hands together? All right. So I hope we guys are having a good time. Yeah, very, very well informed sessions and extremely informative at the point in time. We all must know that our social media handles must keep putting the hashtags in place and on that note we move on to our next panel session. So we dive into our first panel session for the day and the session will be moderated by Mr. Gaurav Paava, Vice President Sales, we serve. Let's welcome our panelist. Mr. Gurjot Shah Singh, Senior Vice President and National Media Head, Denso Web Chutney, along with Mr. Nishit Srivastav, CEO, Kupru Technologies along with Ms. Kanika Mittal, Digital Leader. Well, this discussion is going to be about data collection versus data privacy and it's going to tell us as to where we draw the line, where we draw the boundaries. I request that we please put our hands together to welcome all our esteemed panelists, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much for taking out your precious time to be with us here today and we look forward to listening to you. I request everyone to please keep their phones on silent. Thank you. Welcome everyone. I think what we are going to discuss today at this panel discussion is very, very pertinent topic. This is about data collection versus data privacy and where do we draw the line? I think in the morning session Mr. Bhattra just gave us glimpses about the digital transformation that we are actually seeing and what we see that as a click of a button we are buying products, we are consuming a lot of content online we are expressing our views, opinion with our friends with the world at large. But what is really happening at the back end there is a big data machinery which is working trying to maneuver us to some desired results by apprehending certain information that we have left or we have shared intentionally or inadvertently with others. So there is a growing businesses are evolving and somewhere it is considered very important for businesses because of the diminishing loyalty that they are seeing from consumers to constantly innovate and as a result of that they really are looking at a lot of data points that they can get about their customers but at the same time I think there is a proliferation of such businesses who are constantly looking out and searching for more and more insights about its consumers. So I think with keeping this in mind looking at this aspect while there is a value in collecting consumer data how could all this be made less invasive? So I would like to invite I think some comments from Gujarat because I think he comes with a background understanding the consumers perspective and maybe you could open the discussion here Gujarat. Thank you. Thank you Gaurav. I think more than just the consumers perspective I think we none of us in the industry would have been successful if we wouldn't have cared about our consumer today and what I really feel how to make it less invasive is the only way about that is I feel is about telling the customer up front about where the data is going to be used just mentioned about at times we end up leaving our data behind knowingly at times unknowingly I think all of that is happening because we're leaving that one tick mark that we're collecting your data at the bottom of the screen or somewhere hidden in the screen I think that's something that we really need to get rid of. Speaking from the consumers shoes I think it's very important as a consumer that we should know where our data is getting collected and where is it going to be used so I think it's very important that we in this entire you know in this entire zone of collecting so much of data it's important that we move towards consent based marketing where there is an explicit consent that's been taken from the consumers of where my data will be used because if given a choice to me of leaving my data and not leaving my data behind I need to leave my data behind for me to be convenient about accessing internet today so that's important for me so I think consent based marketing is important as a consumer for me to proceed further in the way I explore things on web So Panika would you like to add? Yeah I'd love to and I really like the point that you made really like the point that you make about consent marketing but you know even before I address that can I just take a minute to say how nice it is just to be back like you know to a hall that is full of people and to feel the mic in the hand and to feel the glare of the light from the face it's been like more than two years I just want to begin by saying a huge thanks to the organizers in a hall full of people moving back to the topic here that the panel is discussing I just want to go a step further to what my esteemed panelist just said and add that it depends also on what are the various sources of data that you are using one of course are the channels that is developed and used and maintained by the marketer themselves where consent becomes hugely important but also at the same time they are also buying data they are also interacting with different forms of agencies and partnerships to get the kind of data they need to deliver the right ROI for the business I think that's where having a very strong sense of responsibility many of you are marketers in this room and I'm very sure that you feel the pressure to deliver on ROI especially when budgets are constrained because we have behavior restraints following the pandemic and in that pressure there could be a tendency to quickly go after the right kind of data but I think in that speed of trying to get the data quickly it's also important to stand back reflect and very responsibly get the right data and check with your different partners that what are the balances that they have in place what kind of content are they taking is the consumer aware how is the data being used and then kind of take a step forward and use the data responsibly so I feel like there has to be a strong balance between content based marketing that a marketer engages with on their own but at the same time that the data that they procure they have to be extra cautious and hold their partners accountable to extremely high standards right thank you that was an interesting perspective so you know when I really look at what are we really leaving behind as footprints on digital media our financial information is there our health records are there if there is a breach here and there people panic yeah and we have seen instances in the past that you know when when the businesses they are you know collecting data they may not be the technology guys ok they are consumer businesses however they are collecting data they need to really rely on certain partners technology partners platforms to put it in perspective ok to you know enable them to analyze the data properly and as I said you know there could be certain mistakes also that may happen ok and the data breaches happen and the panic is panic is there what needs to be done there when we are talking about you know mitigating that sufficient or building trust as in it is very important right how marketers do that how you know you Nishit you are a part of a company that manages data of millions of people and help marketers also have deeper insights about their audiences with data lake offerings where do you see how do you see this mitigation happening Thank you Gaurav good afternoon everybody as far as your question is concerned I see marketers and policy makers have a very great role to play here and what we have seen in this last 5 to 6 years the laws and the policies in India has still not been formulated the way it has been done in the western countries so one of the you know very popular compliance which has been followed worldwide is GDPR compliance in European Union and that is the benefit of the you know the compliance and the policies what our data stores how the data needs to be stored how it needs to be secured how it needs to be processed and there it has been clearly stated that the control should be timely given to the consumers most of the times when we are talking to our clients or you know agencies or marketers for that matter we see that marketers claim that for the consumers because if you have bought certain product on let's say an informal website the marketers or the brand assume that they have acquired consumer data also but as per the policy regulators it should be explicitly mentioned and the control should be given back to the consumers that how that data will be timely used by that brand or by that informal sportive so there should be done here I see there is a lot of scope here and the good thing is that we are already working with the policy makers the you know the forums there and they are you know thinking on it and you see that in one or the two years those policies will also be formulated so anything you would want to contribute yeah I just I think yeah you know I just want to add that you know one is the policy aspect of it which is very critical right like the way he said around the creation of the policies and the right implementation of the policy but also from the point of the consumer at what point do we sort of you know reach to certain terms and conditions also matter typically terms and conditions related to consent of sharing data are slided in right at the end of a contract or when you are buying something or subscribing to something all of these things come right at the end and by the time you are pretty much you know already at the end of your decision making stage so you pretty much give what is called inferred consent or you just give the consent without thinking or you know you do it because you are really not left with a choice sometimes you want to choose convenience and you know that your convenience is coming at a price but you just are left a bit cornered and so you go ahead and you give the consent without really wanting to do it I think the onus of various industry bodies and on all of us also lies in making this particular aspect a little bit more easier for the consumer where the choice to you know give the data or not give the data is actually asked to the consumer at the right time and not slid in at a point where he doesn't really have an effective you know effective time to make the choice or is simply close to doing it in some way so I think the experience if I may say goes hand in hand with policy on really having consumers let us use their data the right way does that make sense? Sure absolutely and just to add further to that and possibly take your opinion about it what would you think I mean what if there's a regulation and I think somewhere regulator also needs to play a part the consumer needs to be given enough power a power to see that what brands are using what kind of data about them that the brands are using so different brands or different categories have different privacy policies so what you actually you know allow a bank to see or your stock broker to see you may not want a retailer to see okay so somewhere I think that if a regulator also could play a part and you know there's a mechanism which is set up where consumers at large can go across to any merchant or you know online platform and figure out that what is the kind of data that those merchants or those platforms have about them and you know they have to they have all the right to revoke the permissions or allow it so what do you think Nishit in terms of the regulator you know aspect where does it come from that a regulator could play you talked about international laws how evolved we are here right now and what needs to be done it's not like that that we don't have laws it's just the laws on the desk we have IT Act and there are certain 1859 laws which has already been promoted I'm not expert on the law legal aspects and as this claimer also that don't take every annual and whatever I say you know that is Starving Stone now the thing is as far as the laws and the formulation is concerned I think the need of the R is the self-regulation okay so we need to move forward ethically in an ethical manner where we give the control back to Nishit there's a kind of information I'm sure that most of the people who are sitting in the audience they don't have any problem with non-personal anti-file information that we call it non-PI information is stored and secured but the moment it comes to the personally anti-file identification which is called PI information coming in place and we you know most of the brand or technology company like us we start storing your personally anti-file information then the issues starts coming in so as far as the privacy policy website it should explicitly mention what kind of personal anti-file information that brand or that website or that publisher is using and how it is processing that data so as long as as Gujarat also mentioned initially as long as the consumer is informed and he is dealt in a transparent manner I think that most of the people they don't have an issue they have been studied by Accenture in 2016 and they clearly said that 70% of the people they were not having an issue as long as they were informed consistently about how their data is being processed even it is used that PI information I love the idea Gaurav that you proposed in fact I think some entrepreneurs should pick it up and build on it like really it's fantastic I think what Gaurav if I may just elaborate I think what he was saying is it's almost like an aggregator website or an aggregator app like you have cred for example where all your credit cards are aggregated and you know exactly what piece is correct and what is not similarly there's an aggregation somewhere that can be done through a technology company where once you go in you log into your profile and you see what kind of data is being shared across what kinds of applications whether it's social media or e-commerce or banking or otherwise and you actually have an off and on button there that allows you to choose at the few stages in your life what you want to protect and what you want to pay I think that would be brilliant and it's absolutely disruptive and hopefully someone in the audience will get inspired and maybe pick that up for explanation quite like we have permissions in our phones what kind of permissions you grant to what all apps so something similar from a platform perspective good job I just wanted to bring this up for you there's the causal relationship between our actions our data and their far-reaching effect okay and that's still obscure at this point of time should consumers be actually again taking a different view about what we are discussing here but should consumers be really told how the data is being used would they not get the chills once they actually get to know what all information about them is available in the worldwide web or with certain companies yeah so I think I'll first connect the dot backwards in what we've been talking about giving the control back to the consumer or giving the authority back to the consumer I don't think so there's any giving back it always stays with the consumer whatever data we leave behind as consumers it's the data of the consumer well I've been a marketer myself for 12 years but I don't think so any of us would have succeeded if we would have not cared about our consumers but the control very much stays with the consumer and I feel that as a consumer if not tomorrow see digital today is not the fourth or the fifth or the sixth preferred medium as we move along we've seen humanity is seeing a mega shift and we know digital is not just about marketing anymore it's how our life is being into existence right so digital is the most preferred medium sooner or later we all have to accept the transparency look at why GDPR laws got created Europeans they were very well aware about their laws which is where they pointed out hey why is my data or why aren't the permissions being taken explicitly which is why all over the world it is now being formed as a GDPR policy so the faster marketers and brands accept this that you've got to be telling up front where my data is going to be used the better it would be because otherwise it can cause more disruption in the system and I think users and consumers will only get insecure about it honestly it's a balance that we're going to hit naturally it's better if we approach it more cautiously and get there faster so yeah as a consumer my data is always mine the control is never I think a marketer has enough other powers to live with so marketers don't need more powers let the powers rest where they need to be and that's how I think we should proceed to a more safer space on internet I guess the data marketers need to make data as their friend and they should know how to manage their friends just to add to that there's a concept called data portability in the advanced market when a consumer is told that how their data is stabilized so the user and the consumer is interested in taking the data back from that technology company and put it in a different company so those kind of laws need to be there obviously we need to inform the consumer about how their data is being processed but at the same time if we empower them by giving them this kind of portability where they can get that derived data or whatever information which is being processed back to the user I think that will create a women's situation for the entire community that's very interesting perspective generally also I would be looking forward to kind of figuring out that you also have a DMP in place typically what are the checks, internal checks from a staff perspective you guys have in place to ensure that the privacy is maintained the data handling certain policies that you have in your company which gives confidence to consumers which gives confidence to marketers that they're dealing with the right partner what are those checks that you want to highlight some of this yeah definitely so as far as checks and balances internal balances are concerned we are forced by the buyer client by a publisher partner that data reaches there we will pay a penalty so it's a sensitive subject and the same if the penalty is huge we need to sign back an agreement with our data scientists with our technology guys back in the company to ensure that the data is secured and they are encrypted in the right manner so that they are not decrypted back and it's not misused not coming back from the market years and from a partner's perspective a partner makes sure that while they are taking the consent from their consumers they mention it explicitly that they are sharing that data with a technology company like us the third party companies so that explicit thing is mentioned there in part of the GDPR guidelines that we follow and then if the consumers to process with the technology company like us they give the great data to us and then we inform them how we are processing them what are the derived data points that we are getting through that and how those data points can be given back to the consumers so we opt out teachers at every stages which every consumer could love to add sure coming back to you Kanika just taking your perspective of being an aggressive marketer to what limits can a marketer really go oh my god that's a tough one you know I think just for a little bit of context before I answer Gaurav's question, I think times have really changed for marketers like there was a time when there was a lot of focus on brand marketing and then the halo style of marketing where you would use people less of digital more of television, outdoors, etc and really create a complete beautiful image of your brand then it pivoted to a lot of performance marketing when a plethora of technology companies came into the country and offered the marketer the entire click through journey where they invariably get the results that they were looking for and most importantly they would get the attribution that they were looking for and that temptation I think for any marketer was huge and that was also a time when the industry was really evolving and there were not so many discussions and conversations around data and how to use the data and there was this whole rush to go in for the bottom funnel or you know hit the bottom line using the bottom of the funnel and all of these new tools that were available and I think that was a time when perhaps many marketers in their aggression would have used these tools very differently not knowing that tomorrow there is a different aspect unfolding in the future but now once you know we've all gone through this sea change with the pandemic and the increased awareness that has happened with regulation and you know government often several other things there is definitely increased awareness and sensibility and responsibility with marketers today and two things are emerging as a result of that one there is a better balance coming within the realm of brand and performance marketing because frankly speaking data requires more performance in brand marketing and today there is a sense of balance companies want to do very meaningful very purposeful communication they want to tell the right stories and they want to have an effective presence on social media where they are able to build their personality have a tone and connect with their consumers and that they can do independent of deep data and then there is another side to it which is the performance marketing in which they are now balancing with brand marketing and saying what do we need when do we need where do we need and what's the best way to get it and so it's a lot more sensitized it's a lot more careful and I think and that sense of balance responsibility is really making the whole thing take very well so I think one big trend that's kind of helping this conservation that God has raised is there's a better balance between brand and performance and the second is that you know just in terms of the sheer country level awareness all of us in this room today having this contribution is a clear testament to the fact that anyone listening to us are going back simply in their subconscious mind will be more more careful in whatever steps that we take in the future so the sheer contribution in the market in the industry with peers is building a collective sense of responsibility and I think even though marketers tend to get very aggressive this sense of responsibility is now here to stay and prevail right thank you I think one perspective that I really wanted to have from you you have consulted probably more than 200 brands in your career you know and you've been a part of a lot of award-winning campaigns as well how tempted are you to again you know from a marketing perspective here you know from an advertising perspective or an agency perspective how tempted are you to leverage an understanding of campaign of one brand for another brand okay because there is a data there okay which talks about this is a market that perform well for this particular brand and we're talking about one ocular could be one ocular you know you figure out that you know down south in Kerala this brand performs well okay so that's a data that's a take away data point for an agency typically that belongs to a marketer you know from that perspective but you are I think you know we tend to all of us we tend to use those business intelligence for benefit of other brands also how far would you take that or you know the kind of agreements that you have with your brands to protect that sort of you know kind of a data or a privacy from that sense okay so a lot of success you pushed me back to a marketer's shoe from a consumer's shoe they call you always wear two hats I wear two turbans of a customer in a marketer so now talking from a marketer's lens firstly more than just brands at densu we are bloody serious about data privacy and regulations so much so I think we are one of the few agencies and group who have a data protection officer in India not just outside in India as well there are very few when I think of I think only I think there would be two at an overall level in India we've been having a data protection officer for almost over two years now so coming back to the point that you mentioned as a marketer I think as marketer's when we take out inferences and learnings from some data that exists for one brand or for one market etc the inferred learning that we extract from any data and that learning is applied anywhere else I feel that's not a breach of data because that's a learning interpreted by a marketer individually however on the other hand no data can ever be cross originated within densu we swan to that and I think that should be any marketer's rule of operation that there should be no data migration but of course there has to be learnings that migrate from one brand one category to the other that's what a marketer does in the course of executing successful marketing campaigns yeah I think so we are pretty much covered a whole lot of issues around the subject and I made some notes and if I were to sum it up I really feel that data privacy is tied to customer experience I think in addition to providing best products and services businesses must also provide consumers a sense of security as it pertains to their personal life enterprise needs to really state upfront to consumers and that's what consumers would appreciate that what kind of data about them that the companies are using what value that it could add to a consumer to their business or to third party I think that upfront stating that should work well to build that trust and then we also talked about putting the power in hands of customers importance of consent needs to be realized by the companies consent management systems needed to be put in place and consumers to be made aware that every business has a privacy policy so finally enterprises are also ambitious and they want to push boundaries they really want to push if you keep playing safe safe all the time you may not be able to innovate in order to innovate you will have to push boundaries however they have to really carefully play a maker checker there themselves and the regulator also need to come and play their part make consumers aware of their rights of the privacy policies and once regulator somehow comes and takes a point takes a position I think marketers would also follow right to build that trust so I think just overall to summit if you really say that between figure out that between data collection and data privacy where to draw a line we may not have a black and white answer to that we can't put it in black and white but definitely as we tried putting it all together there are regulators there are corporates there are consumers who together can come together to evolve this entire ecosystem and make this a win-win situation for everyone I think with that we would like to end and open the flow for any queries that you may have we would be happy to address it please introduce yourself and for who the query is meant for I am Karan I run digital for Dalmia Cement so news broke yesterday that Facebook is going to take away race and religion as data points in the US as marketers who primarily work in the Indian markets and knowing the data sets we have available what data sets do you think should ideally be taken away so that it makes the consumers life on digital safer while leaving all the commercial value that we as marketers have in place so any thoughts on that based on the data sets that we do have available now would you want to take this it was a very interesting question I will probably answer it in the reverse I think the data sets that are needed are perhaps more demographic and sociographic and transactional in nature because they help to build a customer's profile like his likes and interests so that the brand can serve him in the best way so what I would say is that look at it the other way what are the data points to really need it to build the right kind of customer profile that it makes a marketer or rather gives the marketer better insight into how to serve him and whatever data sets don't feed into that profile or are just additional information just remove those so I think that's the best way adding a little more to that I think Facebook and Google are very popular platforms but like how Gaurav started right in the beginning about digital transformation you don't know how many other technology players or media partners are capturing all of that information today I also leave information about my salary in my messages and I allow Google to read my messages and there you go all the micro investment apps are reading my salaries the reading where am I investing the reading Facebook is reading I'm eating Maggie because I'm posting about having Maggie with my nephew I'm posting about move to a new city I'm posting about all my habits I think what's important is in some way knowingly or unknowingly there are many data sets that are being created it's very important that when I'm leaving any of this information behind I should be told explicitly as a consumer it's my right to know explicitly that where all this data is going to be used is eating Maggie with my nephew gonna be used later to retarget me or not probably that's something like I said we're gonna naturally find a balance between the black and white Gaurav I think the black and white doesn't exist now but hopefully maybe next 6 months one year when we hit the stage again right so we should just be explicitly told and there are many data sets that exist sure and again the power to the consumer at the end of the day if he knows what about him is known to anybody any third party he should have that transparency with him and the power to revoke those donations if at all thank you very much Mr. Gaurav and thank you very much everyone thank you thank you Mr. Nishit and yes Ms. Kanika Mithal thank you very much that was very very good and thank you for taking us to some fantastic highlights that we all got to know about and on that note I'd like to request Mr. Sanjay Sundwani CEO Indian Express online to please come up on stage and give a token of appreciation to our esteemed panelists and can we please put our hands together thank you so much thank you so much for your precious time and for being here with us so now ladies and gentlemen we break for lunch and then we resume to our second slot for the day thank you yes ladies and gentlemen I hope you had a hearty lunch I request you to please settle down as we now move on to our next session thank you can I request everyone to please come in and settle down thank you can I request everyone to please come in and settle down I'm sure all of us really enjoyed a hearty lunch thank you I request everyone to please come in and settle down for the next session yes our lunchtime is already over now so I request you to please come in and take thank you can I please request everyone to come in and settle down our lunchtime is over now a hearty welcome once again to all the dignitaries here thank you so much for your kind presence I would like to inform you all that the lunch break is over now we are all set to resume our session I would like to thank our presenting partners times now action begins here co-powered by 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author in various industry publications and international marketing journals and is a futuristic and seasoned speaker on travel and tourism marketing strategy and digital ecosystems at seminars across the world we will be speaking on the topic delivering economic value through data digitalization and personalization so kindly please let's welcome put your hands up in the air together for Siddharth Batalya chief marketing officer Eurasia India welcome sir thank you so much good afternoon everyone I know it's always tough to take the post lunch session I don't have any videos or any explosive content to share with you but I'm going to try and keep it as engaging as possible and open it up to questions after we finish I wanted to talk about this topic of looking at delivering economic value through data and digitalization and personalization in the context of digital marketing and a lot of the discussions that we've had in the first half of today's session let me start by saying what a pleasure it is to be back with an audience like this in the room I think one of the panel members in the last session also expressed that it kind of underscores the importance of personal collections even when we're at the epicenter of trying to celebrate digital excellence there's a lot that goes into one-to-one relations and personal relations and when we're looking at digital when we're often looking at binary and data metrics it's important to remember we spend in digital we often tend to look at the micro we often tend to look at metrics but it's important to step back I think at this juncture and look at the context now and what is the promise that that holds for the future if you look at the relationship between organizations and brands it's not that that has changed fundamentally the fundamentals of the relationships have not changed a lot of the trends however that we have seen which were chugging along slowly have got accentuated in immense space in the last year and a half in markets like ours emerging markets etc the unique thing which has happened is that a lot of these trends have been driven by a younger and a more diverse consumer demographic it's again another thing which is happening slowly but it's got significantly accentuated I can cite examples from my industry right aviation if you look at the demographic the flying demographic that was there earlier versus the past year the most resilient age group has been the 20 to 29 age group in a period when all other age groups flying fell by about 42% the 20 to 29 age group fell only 16% right now each of these demographics have very unique characteristics and it's not just that age group at the same time as the age groups have been a lot of other things which have happened you've had a lot of first time travelers coming you've had a lot of movement from train travel and a lack of the traditional corporate travel to a new demographic and that new demographic is bringing new data into the ecosystem it's very important to look at how these demographics are engaging with brands and what we can do and what promise that holds for the future if you look at this period of intensive change what's happened for all of us I think in the last couple of years at an individual level and at an organization level is there's been a massive impact at a personal level as well as as organizations and each of us is defined by the experiences that we've had in our lives those experiences tend to reshape your identities it does the same thing to brands it does the same thing to organizations but what it does at an individual level and if you look at travel in that context it's one of the most inspiring experiences that people typically have that change your world view for some people travel is about creating a lifelong memory for some people travel is about connecting with other individuals families friends we've seen a lot of increase in VFR in the past year now as the world is emerging again what is happening is you're seeing a move from discretionary expenditure moving from transactional to experiences it's another one of those macro ships that were happening that have got accelerated you had a lot of transactional exchanges of goods which were happening and we're moving back into the experience economy which has been around it's not a new phenomenon it's been around since the 20s I mean for about 20 years but that's something that has got accelerated significantly and as that experience economy comes in there's a need for a much deeper understanding of consumer journey because what you're looking for is not transactional anymore you're looking at all the touch points in the consumer journey that will be able to drive loyalty will be able to drive revenue that will create ultimately a differentiated brand identity and each of those touch points has digitization or data at the back end of it if you look at these younger diverse experience economy consumers as I said they exhibit certain characteristics right they are more resilient which we've seen they're more socially aware they're more connected they're more digitally engaged you take the example of our social media while the flying demographic well by about 50% in the past year our social media engagement went up 3 times so we revamped our entire systems we invested in online reputation management metrics we launched a new website and mobile applications we revamped our booking engine all those systems we've reached now global benchmarks of resolution times and response times on social media because we realized that that's where people are moving and that as I said is another acceleration of something that should have been done a long time ago apart from India the 7 other geographies where AirAsia India operates have actually closed their contact centers and are operating only on a chatbot so we have an AI powered conversational transaction chatbot that can fulfill 97% of what people typically were doing at contact centers earlier what are these experience economy consumers looking for they're looking for new service offerings the speed at which these new norms have come into play has not just enabled and empowered innovation but in all of our lives it is almost necessitated it is critical that we relook at fundamental business models and the way in which we do business to survive in the future if you have the aptitude today and you have the confidence to invest in digital infrastructures and to scale then you are primed to pivot for what the future will bring and that's where the economic value will be in classical or neoclassical economic models what they said is that organizations effectively derive a comparative advantage versus other organizations or geographies, countries etc from the on especially in times of crisis you look at inequalities that come to the fore whether it's economic inequalities or industry inequalities which bring much more larger macroeconomic changes along with it like the disruption of the gig economy which was seeing a massive increase or the consolidation that is happening because of the scale that is required even to power AI for example you need scale to be able to monetize the AI and the investments that you are doing over there but ultimately what is running at the back of this is data and if you need to remain relevant in the long run like we were talking about data privacy and the implications of consumers owning the data and what they will do with that it is imperative that you are responsible with that data because what will derive that comparative advantage in the future is actually how you deal with that data and so there is a new kind of asset which is a moral asset if you can have the ownership of that moral asset then you have a comparative advantage over other organizations because the other factors are much easily fungible right if you measure that morality it's essentially in the manner in which we engage with stakeholders with consumers, with markets with competitors who are also stakeholders in our ecosystem and in the community at large if you take the example of data the increased regulation that has happened in the past year and a half has afforded a wealth of new data that firms are not necessarily using at an adequate amount if you look at again airlines where for example with the PNR earlier when a booking came in you had multiple passengers with one mobile number today with health and contact declaration forms you have mobile numbers and email addresses contact details at a pin code level and address details of where you are traveling to for every single passenger now there is personal information sensitive personal information what becomes important tomorrow as this sharing of this data becomes a necessity for consumers in the new system is how a firm is going to deal with that because tomorrow the power is in the hands of the individual and they are going to trust their data with organizations or brands that are not going to exploit that data for commercial value or competitive advantage but to hand that value back to the consumer and that is the crux of what personalization is if you can take that data to deliver a better consumer experience rather than try to take that data to move a transaction or increase a conversion then you stand to gain a long-term benefit from that the relationship of trust between the consumer and the brand is what lowers the transaction costs in the long-term it lowers the cost of acquisition all the intangible resources that the consumer spends on gathering information time, money the entire need for intermediaries in the ecosystem is because there is data arbitration once you have the data and the consumer trusts you with that data then that need is gone all of that extra resources that are being spent on these various things are handed back to the two entities which are fundamental to the trade the consumer and the brand and that is where the economic value needs to get created so the emphasis by many organizations in closing what I say in the last period has been on deploying hygiene factors trying to address tactical measures to deal with the uncertainty the chaos etc but the universal adoption of these tactical measures means that they are not going to be differentiators in the long-term what will be a differentiator in the long-term is to have a sustainable strategy which is driven by data which is built on a digital ecosystem ultimately is using personalization to provide a differentiated experience to the consumer and that's where the economic value is moving and that's where I believe we all need to move so that I mean that that's my summary of this in general but I'd be very happy to address any questions if anyone has are we good on time hi sir Tarun from Garuda so would an airline be willing to monetize the data in terms of other marketers to monetize it so would an airline it's a global question would an airline I'm sure they would be willing to monetize it as an as an airline ourselves I would not monetize it and there are a variety of reasons for that but you have an extension to that question I think basically in terms of personalization it's speaking about if a person is flying to a skiing location so in that term somebody is going to fly there sometimes we would offer them hotel spaces or the other skiing equipment as well so in terms that is the next stage of consumer data where we are moving to I feel yes and I think it's important again reading what the last panel said to ensure and we pivoted if you look at Aresha.com it's an organization used to be Aresha used to be an organization which was an airline company it is moved to essentially becoming a digital travel data company so you have investments now in car ecosystems or over equivalent ecosystems in Southeast Asia we've moved to selling hotels to selling rentals to selling health to selling all of those things but those are sold on the same platforms when the consumer comes on to that platform they know what they're sharing their data for and what they're buying which is very different from taking that data and handing it over to another company in exchange for their data now it's easy to do in a collaborative ecosystem and we are 84% for example owned by TataSans so is IHCL or Taj hotels the monetization of that is very attractive to do but it's very important to keep those guardrails across the different organizations and tomorrow if I wanted to provide an offer to my consumers who are traveling say from Bangalore to Delhi at a Taj hotel in Delhi to stay that often needs to be on our platform and the consumer needs to book the hotel and once they've made the transaction whatever data is required for that transaction needs to flow to the partner but it wouldn't be correct in my mind to hand over the data of saying these are 100 people who are flying into Delhi and go market to them yourselves I think that will be doing a disservice to them Hi I have a question like to what extent the ARAC are using analytics particularly with customer analytics tracking the life cycle right from booking to executing the journey because recently we had the one experience in family like where we booked the ticket during this lockdown period for Jaipur, Delhi to Jaipur and the ARAC are flights remain scheduling, re-siddling for so many months and then we found that the ticket got lost though we booked through the Make My Trip it was the responsibility of Make My Trip also to ascertain whether the passenger has really got travel or not if not if the flights are not scheduling and it's like 4, 5 and more than 10 re-siddle then money should be automatically refunded to the customer account but yet it has not happened so do you have any analytics tools for analyzing these kind of huge cases yes this is exactly the point I was making in terms of what you do with that data where the ownership of that data lies and therefore who the consumer trusts with the data when you make a booking through intermediary for example the way the process works is if the flight gets cancelled immediately because the money has come through the intermediary the refund moves from the airline back to the intermediary now the intermediary has the choice of refunding that money directly to you or waiting for you to reach out to the intermediary and refund the money and those are governed by the terms and conditions of that intermediary so if you book on the airline website directly for example your refund is instant as soon as the flight gets cancelled whether you cancel it or the airline cancel it or it will be scheduled it might take 3-4 days for the bank who has got the credit card company to process that money back to your account to your credit card but as soon as you have an intermediary that life cycle increases in the course of the pandemic there are many smaller agents not the likes of the big ones who have I mean the OTS the large OTS have an own reputation to maintain and so ultimately because of regulation because of their own reputation those refunds get processed but there are a lot of smaller travel agents and we had cash flow issues at this period of time and went bankrupt and that effectively just I mean that goes away that in this case sorry in this case it was make my trip it was not a small vendor it's a big operator but they remain saying that we have not got yet refund from the operator you know because the next they are settling to the next they have said you are not yet to the next flight that's what the same something they have used to say you know so we still reported to them and we are hoping that they still they act how long ago was this I think now it's more than a year so let me let me get your PNR sure thanks but in principle it shouldn't happen but I was I'm also a tech professional so I was the kind of raging from that point of view because I generally I advise free of course to make my trip on so many things right once I booked from Rachid to Delhi and suddenly you know my older passenger co-passenger was also booked you know mistakenly because they ticked you know they called and sometimes you miss this so I recommended certain modification in their mobile apps and they agreed to that but they did not refund the mistakes which was actually carried over their app this is precisely the point that I was making is that what organizations do with that data how they handle it how responsibly they deal with the consumers is what it's going to determine next time whether you transact with the same organization and whether that transaction is driven by a choice of price now you may have gone through a particular channel because you've got a discount at that channel or you've got a bank offer or something and so it's driven by that tactical incentive but after one or two experiences of this nature you realize that sharing your data or dealing with a firm that is going to be responsible with that data and with the money that you've given to them is going to make a lot more sense and a lot of these larger organizations will naturally pivot to that it's a matter of survival now it's not a matter of competitive advantage anymore but that's precisely what I would say thank you thank you sir I was quite insightful session I would request you to stay back with us I would request the presence of Mrs Priyanka Bazuriya associate director of events and marketing to kindly do the honors of presenting the momentum to you here ma'am welcome here on the stage let's welcome you from the class please thank you so please accept the token of appreciation from our rent and thank you so much for your precious time here today well thank you so much Nandini thank you so much ma'am alright so I hope we're all ready to move on to the second panel session for the day yeah I know that we get a tad bit sleepy after lunch but I hope that's not the case today yeah I think we had a really hearty lunch but we're going to really enjoy ourselves so this session ladies and gentlemen is going to be moderated by Adity N.C. founder CEO the social unicorn and with us on the panel we have Mr Prateesh Chauthani co-founder and CEO HIV O.C.O education and learning Vaishali Shah CEO and creative head moving pixels private limited with Mr Praveer Sahame senior director as India and Southeast Asia Samsung along with Mr Faizan Ahmad national head digital transformation revenue on behalf of the Hindu and Mr Rohit Uttamchandani founder teaching on well this session is about learning and unlearning the need for constant innovation please put your hands together for everyone who's about to join us louder please come on thank you hello and a very warm welcome my name is Adity N.C. founder of the social unicorn thank you for joining in and we are going to start with the session because we are running with so I request all the panelists kindly introduce themselves so I'll go first my name is Prateesh I'm the co-founder and CEO of a kids brand kids entertainment brand called HIV O.C.O which stands for high voice companion we are the world's first voice enabled voice interactive animated stories app for children and we've done in the past six months we've done some great work I've been in this business of marketing communication and being a PNL leader for about 15 years I've been at Koch Whirlpool I was a business leader at Rida Mirchi and now I'm an entrepreneur so happy to join here with all the panelists namaste I'm Pai Shalisha CEO of the moving pixels company we are a film production house and a design studio we expert in political advocacy I started my career as a copywriter today I'm doing almost everything I'm supposed to do and Karmahidharma is the mantra of my life thank you my name is Praveer we are setting up the first of its kind ctp ad networks for india and south station and given this topic around change I've always happened to be at a point in changing industry and ctp happens to be one of them thank you for being a part of this event hi my name is Rohit Tamchandani I'm the founder of Taqtion we are a digital marketing and transformation consulting company personally I've been the digital space for over a decade worked with multiple brands across sectors across india and the middle east helped them craft digital strategies scale their online presence done a lot of workshops done over 200 workshops for leading corporates across india and middle east in africa where we've helped their teams build capability in digital hey hi myself Prazan I'm working with the Hindu group digital transformation head for revenue function so we are trying to build an integrated sales for the organization look forward so today we are talking about learning and learning the constant need for innovation and innovation means value creation having said that when you talk about innovation and organization to begin with Prazan how to create what are your views on how to create a culture where we're taking an experimentation is allowed in an educated and confident manner okay thanks Aditi before I move into how to create a culture of experimentation I'll just give you my understanding what basically learning and learning means to us and I personally believe this is not something which is new and this was always there with us once we first stepped on to schools how we started learning with the help of fingers 1, 2, 3 then we grew further and Abekas was introduced and what we have noticed every time a new technique is being introduced you have to leave away the old fashion and we have seen how we respond to that particular thing so I personally feel this learning and learning is a perfect combination of what you call that awareness intellectual humility and and and curiosity any anyone like to go forward at anybody will strive for and what we used to discuss about 3 years 4 years back we used to discuss about IQ level of a person emotional protein which would be an execution potent but now the new term the learnability potent is finding its way if you are not ready to unlearn somebody will come and replace you being an individual we need to ask a question to ourselves what we want to create whether we want to create an experience for multiple years or one experience for multiple years there is a huge difference so if you want to create an experience you need to make make certain changes you need to have trust for the people I belong to a sales fraternity and everybody knows in sales people will come to danda chalo bande bhaagayenge danda leke aayenge trust me this letter is no longer going to work what will happen if you stream at people next time they are not going to improve they are just going to hide the fact as an individual is our responsibility is an organization responsibility to create a safe environment we have to plan for action mistakes will happen nobody can predict what will happen in the future unless and until you try unless and until you don't don't create a safe environment don't ask the people to create something new if you start penalizing your people you are never going to achieve a success and I would like to quote one of the quote by Alan Joseph what he says he says the illiterate of 21st century are not those who don't know how to read and write but would be the one who don't know how to learn un-run and relearn very well put thank you what do you think about reinventing oneself with the action of learning unlearning and relearning I do sometimes have the allergic reaction to the word unlearning simply because I do believe there is a statement in our community called Dati Makinuske so we should not forget some of the foundational elements that we have learnt over the course of our life and if you have read the book called Sapiens which is on on history Uwal Horari quite nicely said that history is not a study of time but a study of change so that means at this very moment we are part of a change but the way I interpret change in my own personal evolution from wanting to be a chef without doing digital marketing has been that willingness to learn as we quite rightly said and also have the understanding that you need to adapt to survive and if you missed any of these elements I think learning unlearning and relearning can quite easily qualify so know your fundamentals know that you have to survive and in that mindset be agile and adaptive to whatever is happening around you and you can choose to reject something because it may not suit your value system so that's perfectly fine but be here for the longer time and be here for good for everybody Thank you Rohit what do you think about it I mean do you have something you know just a value issue Yeah so like like Praveer said we are in a time of great change and change is all around us we do in this world is changing at a rapid pace and something I've seen in the digital space itself digital is a space which changes really fast in fact I remember someone saying this that the pace of change that we have today has never been faster and will never be slower here on so the pace of change is only going and you know in a space like this if you don't have that skill to be able to unlearn and then learn and just to give you an example there in the digital space itself right I'm not sure how many of you most of you might be running google search ads for your for your grant rate if you optimize a google search ad today with your knowledge from one year ago you would not get the same results and your results would not be optimal because in the last one year so much has changed in that space itself and this applies to almost everything in digital whether it's a google search ad or a facebook ad there are new features coming every day there are new tactics the way you do it today is very very different from sometimes even six months back in digital you require to the skill is very important the ability to kind of let go of what you've learned before and that comes a little difficult to us is what I've seen sometimes in a lot of teams is you are so connected to something you've done and I have seen special teams in digital agencies sometimes you've been doing the same thing for five years and you think that's what works and then you're not able to let go of that and start fresh this ability to let go and start fresh this critical skill in a digital world the pace at which we change it so it's absolutely important for every company to build that culture in its right and digitally when we are trying to up skill what is working today is definitely going to go up to lead in the next six months right Pritish your take on this yes sure so we all are speaking about how as an individual we need to change but as a leader, as a manager I think it's a primary responsibility towards our employees to actually make the change happen for them and I primarily believe that you know usually employees would be would have a smog in front of them not knowing really what the essential change is going to be see understand all of us are as employees are working hard to you know achieve our immediate results next month target care or how many views do I need to get as a content creator and stuff like that that are happening is only visible at you know 15,000 feet or 30,000 feet and as a leader therefore you know one has to create that culture of you know giving the power to the employee and say listen I understand you're doing something right here and you're learning and then you're doing well but now I want you to take up something new and I won't question you for next 12 months but you have to go this is my conviction that you have the ability to do that once you see a manager or a leader give a conviction you would see this culture of innovation naturally come out obviously you need support in terms of training the employees and creating those resources however it is the conviction of the manager and the support that you give to the employee you would see the whole culture of innovation in an organization basically training the workforce as well which will help in I agree so not only just training the workforce but the first step in actually getting someone to say hey listen I'm sorry I speak from experience we used to do a lot of I used to head business for Radio Mirchi and primarily you know best minds in creating great content but you want if you want to push someone saying listen I want you to now focus 50% of your energy is creating digital what do you do in terms of saying but my rating will be bad but no that's not the point I would protect you for what you've done next 6 months 12 months I won't even give you a rating for the stuff that you do on digital and monitor your performance as a trend line and not as a point in time so therefore and training is part of it but the whole conviction of getting someone to move from just doing what they were doing core for themselves to moving something that they have to do for the organization because the organization has to move from one of the four businesses to new businesses you have to give you have to give your assets that stimulation to believe in themselves to get this in right thank you so much so moving on so this is something I really wanted to know that you know a company which reflects a company culture which reflects ethics values and goals brand goals also do you think it is a reflection of a great campaign I mean a great campaign reflects the company culture yeah so again I would like to begin this with the term learning and unlearning because learning and unlearning is not just one person's culture it's the culture of the whole it should be the culture of the whole organization then only one person's dream becomes a shared dreams and together they can grow together they can achieve it about unlearning at least at least one thing we can we all can unlearn every morning is the realization that yesterday what I did was the best and how to forget it today and at least one thing we all can learn every evening is that tomorrow whatever I'm going to do has to be the best and unlearning is not about forgetting our skills but it's about reminding our skills every day to to work harder and to think broader and to me I'm giving my opinion unlearning is challenging the subset attitude you know it's about coming out of our comfort zones and unlearning is not a time taking process it's not a meditation it's a quick decision it's a quick shift from what's next to what's new right yeah and another thing I would like to say see learning and unlearning they are the parallel process they happen parallely like we do in a freestyle swimming it happens parallel and I'll give you example that when I I'm briefing my my creative team my first line begins with let's do it better than the last time here I'm not giving any big fund on filmmaking or content marketing nothing but together we are setting a target that we want to do it better than last time that innovation becomes a compulsion you have no other option than to do it differently and with whatever resources you have right now when you're creating a campaign for your clients with your team do you keep in mind the company's profile as in company culture and what kind of value system we believe in in our culture is an inevitable part of any process you know we campaign or construction or anything so we like we at moving we believe in we believe that unlearning and relearning is our culture that's why I'm talking so much on it because we are never in illusion that we are the best my writer would never say that I'm the best writer the best marketer because it's an illusion if anyone believes that it's an illusion and it's not reality it can never be a reality so yeah it's it's a culture that we all share thank you thank you Vaishali Rohit coming to you your take on how you see it as a great reflect a great campaign is a reflection of a great company culture do you believe in that yeah I'll talk about it from perspective not from a brand campaign perspective but more let's say because I work a lot on the performance side of things from a performance campaign perspective what I do see is yes of course culture is important and because I work with a lot of plans from an external perspective and I get to study what their culture is internally and I also get to see the results they get so it goes without saying and I have data to say that a company is where they have a culture of unlearning and learning culture in a new or better way are the companies where their overall campaign or marketing ROI turns out to be the best their campaigns run the most optimally to give you an example is for example I've seen companies where when let's say they want to build a team to experiment and do new things they probably invest in in tools I've seen companies where they spend a lot of money buying the best tools without first building that culture of experimentation so what happens there is you have a lot of money spent without first having a team that understands how to hypothesize how to look at what do we need to test before using the tool to test so a lot boils down to the culture we're building right from innovation to experimentation right thank you so much moving on so there was something that we were talking about Tezan we would really want you to share about you know how you try walling the stereotype when it comes to appliance transformation okay that's the interesting thing to discuss and I have something which I am currently doing as far as breaking the stereotypes is concerned so every time when you witness now if you ask even in the room if you ask how many wants change I think most of the 90 percent of the people will raise their hand I won't change the moment you ask the second question how many of you wants change then the real problem everybody wants change but nobody wants to get themselves change and I personally believe what is the biggest hindrance in changing yourself trust me is the knowledge and the skills what you pose is now is the biggest hindrance I will teach you and that's there it's the illusion of knowledge not the knowledge this holds you in getting the change and when it comes to breaking a stereotype now when I entered into a digital space while working for a print media for almost three and four years then I moved to a digital space doing sales and building advertising revenue for them so when we go and say people will say hey to sell digital you need to be x skill sets y skill sets z skill sets is required when we go and talk to the organization a print people can't sell digital so then we thought they are the one who understand the organization far more better than I do I may be understanding the medium but print people are the subject matter are the market matter expert they are there into the market for quite so longer period of time they have a better connect with the brand and the agency and digital person are those who is the subject matter expert why not to marry them we break that stereotype and what you call it dismantle our entire digital sales team now we have one integrated sales team within the industry if you want to give them a term you can call them a free sales people but is it only just setting up the goal is good enough no we just don't want to change you want to harness it then what we have done we have set up a unit called digital center for excellent now what this will do my people understand Hindu they understand Hindu they don't understand digital as a media so we have established an in-house training center for them so we select 12 to 14 people from the entire print sales team and train them for entire 3 years and that training happens from the internal instructor and I'm happy to share this has really done wonders for us and we are able to move down our digital advertising revenue but almost 400% in last 2 years so as a leader we just don't have to make changes we have to ensure we are harnessing those changes making progress taking learning then again if that learning is not good for us we can run them and then go for the another thank you thank you so much so thank you for your valuable inputs panellists thank you so much and we are now open to questions from the audience thank you so very much can we have a huge round of applause please I'd like to request Mr. Gaurav for our VP sales we serve to please come okay alright I'm so so sorry I think we have a question in the audience I'm Shavu and my question is to you considering the newspaper in the media industry how the news is consumed not even ours it's a minute game so the question is how traditional media is going to be there because by the time I get a new paper next day in house I've already consumed the news it's a matter of like 3 hours so how the next day when I'm consuming the data which has already been there on digital world so what will put the future for the traditional media specifically newspaper and magazine industry that's a tricky one but I will share you my view how I basically see the entire print media and a digital media so you correctly mentioned digital media it's on the go it's on the go you can read it whenever you want to but have you tried to understand why people prefer print and why still most of the marketer love to advertise on print I try to understand it from a psychological point of view our mind is positioned like we have to pass away a subconscious and a conscious mind so if you try and understand the reading behavior of yours you will always read the newspaper at a stipulated time so the time is defined maybe in the morning while having tea cup of coffee so when you read any particular newspaper you are just positioned to read and consume the content your engagement level is much more higher so print is going to be there because when it comes to digital sometimes you are confused whom to follow same news you are reading it on multiple platforms the views you are reading on multiple platforms so I think it's the engagement which will define the deep print the other print in the future and it's going to be there circulation might come down but it's going to be there very much there Thank you I would like to add to this that there is a difference between news and views where we find everything easily on any platform are maybe not are they may be just views but the traditional mediums give you news and it's not about just news so who is giving the news there is a legacy of credibility behind that piece of news If I have one minute I would like to add one more point How many of you believe three years back Indian consumer won't pay for content I think almost all of us Hindustani won't give money for content free is available we have these number of sources are available to consume the content but look the way subscription is going on we as an organization have taken that bold step of moving our product behind the paywall two years back and trust me we are doing successfully really well in that particular area consumer will pay for the content but you have to ensure what kind of content we generate content will always remain the king and as correctly mentioned is the views what people would love to get for Thank you Last question I will add here as well one common thing in digital forums not with what you said but generally in the digital forums is here are some blanket statements the TV is dead one things I have missed are some subtitles and assuming you are targeting our audience your target audience behaves as you behave things across brand managers I wouldn't go there, so maybe my target audience would not be there either. So, same thing with both print and TV, right? Both are continuing to flourish. With print, I have clients that continue to do print ads not purely because of the ROI, but because of the perception. I have a client that wanted to do a print, even though when they knew that it's not gonna get them the same ROI, they put the same money in digital. But they still wanted to do it because for them, it's like our brand is on the front page of Times of India. The perception that that creates is a lot more than anything else I would want to get out of that money. So that is one. And just to add to that, I'm a digital native. I've been a digital first marketer, but every morning I still pick up my print copy of DIY. You can call me a dinosaur if you want. But the reason I do that, I have a reason I do that because that's one time in the day when I'm not using my phone and I'm reading off paper. So I do it for that. And I'm assuming there are people who do that as well. Right, I want to echo the same point. And people say that print is dead. Even when we see the digital tools like blogging, blogging is dead. It's very important for people to understand it's not dead, everything is evolving. And so is the print. So yes, I mean, it takes time. It's a gradual evolution. I'm sorry, but I need to make one point here. I'll take just one more minute. See, digital print television, they are just mediums. But at the heart remains content. So if the content is strong, so be it on print, be it on digital, it is surely going to connect. So we focus so much on the medium. The print is dead or alive and digital is buzzing, but we don't really give that much of important to the content. So mediums are always evolving, as you rightly said, but the content since ages, you know, content adds value to the medium. Medium, I don't think adds much value to content. I don't think any film has become very good because it was released on digital and it fell down in the theater.  Yeah, such a wonderful question, right? Everybody has a perspective. And I'd like to completely disagree with Vaishali, saying content is not as important as the medium is because content can go anywhere, right? It's the, if you are a business leader, if you are the owner of the company, you are focusing only on the platform or the distribution medium. If you own the distribution medium, you will be successful. If you're not owning it, you will always play in a content game which is always a low margin business. So we've seen print guys struggle because there was a legacy distribution business, right? Nobody could enter. There'll be only two or three players in that market, right? But as a content creator, just switch on your camera and you can start creating content and you're creating content for Facebook, for YouTube, for TikTok, right? So as a business owner, obviously, the crowd here would resonate. You would always want to see the play between content and distribution, what side of coin that you are most interested in. As a business leader, I'm more interested in the distribution, less on the content because content the banal. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you for- Content brings- We all agree to disagree. Yeah, always. And I think it contributes to great help in conversation and perspective. Thank you so very much. Well, I'd like to now invite Mr. Gaurav Paava, VP Sales, we serve to please give a token of appreciation to our esteemed panelists. Can we please put our hands together? We already have our next panel team ready. Thank you once again to all the dignitaries for your precious time here today. That was quite an insightful session we just had. I would also like to thank our partners for this to end, presenting partner Times Now Action Begins Here, co-powered by partner, Indian Express Brand Studio, and we serve people-based marketing needs sharper. Let's move on to the last panel for the day on the digital marketing state of affairs and what's next. Let's have a huge round of applause for our panelists here in tow. The panel will be chaired by Neil Pandia, CEO APAC 561, followed by our panelists here. Mr. Karan Rajpal, head of digital marketing, Dalmia Cement, Ms. Ashima Kakkar, head of marketing, NLB Technologies, Ms. Archana Agarwal, VP, Media, Airtel. Let's welcome all the eminent personalities with a huge round of applause, please. Everybody, please put your hands up in the air. Sorry, but it was Princess. All right, thank you so much. Thank you once again to all of you for taking out your precious time. Over to Neil Sahil. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, firstly, thank you for him. I think it's really, really awesome to see everyone in person who faces to the name. I believe that digital has an illusion in all of us that in Zoom calls, we show the upper half and we don't, I have taken digital as really, pandemic has affected me, health and a lot of other stuff. I've not considered really bad, but when I see Rajeev who is fit and fine right now with me, gives me some intentions, the delusions and we need to move out of that. Guys, today we're gonna talk about digital marketing in state of affairs. I think there's a lot which has changed in pandemic and we have done hundreds of webinars and seminars talking about that thing. So we will speak something about the obvious changes into digital marketing, which were maybe AI, maybe augmented reality, maybe adoption of digital, maybe acceleration of digital into Pyvex, all of these, all of such stuff which we have spoken, but today we'll try and see if we can cover something new as well. Let me rather not waste any further time and before we start, I think I have one simple question to all of you guys. We have defined digital marketing multiple times. So if you have to define digital marketing in your style, I mean, Karan, in your experience, if you're able to define not the bookish knowledge or the theoretical knowledge, how would you do it? I can start from anywhere. So I think marketing before digital marketing, the shortest and the clearest definition that's stuck by me is marketing is the truth well told and digital marketing is the opportunity to tell that truth over and over again until your truth becomes your consumer's truth as well. Ashima, any interesting facts about digital marketing? So I think digital to me is a way of life and I think for brands it's become a way of life for all of us, it's become a way of life. And I think digital to me is observation and to me that translates into campaigns, that translates into ideas, so that's digital to me. Telecom is always ahead in digital marketing. Anything new from personal information? For me, digital, it's a black box, it's a wall garden, it's future tech, it's where the consumers are going to be in the future, it's entertainment, it's a lot of things. So I mean, I'm looking at both I'm a consumer and a marketer's style for a little bit, if a marketer doesn't understand what the consumer is looking for, how do you plan for a future? Raju sir. Hello. I think this is something which everybody can do. Marketing is something for which you have to go to business school and work in some fancy companies where nice suits like yours and mine, right? And talk some fancy jagans. This is something which can be done by everybody and anybody who's a little bit savvy in technology understands this to me, but even if it doesn't stand, if you know, and if you want to do business, you can start doing business. You can start doing business very, very quickly and enhance the business very quickly. That's what I think about digital marketing. That's the biggest difference which is there in the real world in this. I think really said, I think Raju, I completely agree on the first of all, me I think digital marketing at personal level was my mom and dad adopting banking apps and doing transaction online. I think we never imagined, I think net banking was among young stars or maybe 35, 40 year olds, but going to elderly people also, that was personal level of achievement in digital marketing. And I also believe, as Raju rightly said, digital marketing for being on L'Oreal's side when on the previous version, I think purchasing lipstick online with AI put into a structure or with article doesn't put into a structure. I think that was the level at which digital marketing has gone. So a super, I think that's a very nice definition of digital marketing in your own respective industries. We have an interesting panel guys today. I think we have someone from Dalmia Cement who has moved into digital marketing over the years and now are a pro in digital marketing as for current right now. We have a telecom industry, Archana from Airtel who has been, we have been learning digital marketing from telecoms in India. I think for years telecom and e-commerce guys were doing the digital marketing. Ashma, I think works for an organization who has brilliant digital transformation taking forward. And Raju, I think I'll start with Raju, I'm ending with Raju. But Raju, I think as a personal believer into Dabur as a brand over the years, I've seen Dabur ads and televisions from the years. But if you see recently, Dabur has more modernized advertising. That's my perception. You can tell more about it. But as you have moved into more modernized advertising, has your thinking into digital marketing has also changed? Is it that elderly audience moved into digital or you are switching gears into youngsters and hence you're targeting digital marketing on you? I think, first of all, everyone is on digital, right? So even you and my grandmoms and parents and everybody is there. Even, you know, if you go to the rural areas and if you talk to people and ask them how do they, do they watch TV? They'll tell you they don't want to see TV. But, you know, they will have a smartphone and ask them what do they do and they say that it's like a red button. So they press it. So that's where they watch movies. Just like YouTube, right? So that's what has been, I mean, for people of this country, everybody's consuming digital and you can't be aware of it. And as far as we are concerned, what we look at is that, you know, we look at the trend into context, into marketing, basically. That's how the journey is. And you look at the trends, you get the right context and you basically market it to people. And that's how our journey starts and ends. Any specific trend Dabbar would have picked up and you would have, you know, taken advantage of that trend for Dabbar as a brand. Several of them, like, for example, I'll give you an example of a brand called Dabbar Honey, for example, right? Dabbar Honey is a brand which used to be about 33% market share brand, just about three years back, four years back. Now we are sitting at the 55% market share company. And it's been possible because we learned from people, we did a lot of social listening, we understood from the market what's important for people. And we figured out that, you know, what's important for people is that, you know, we should tell people that, how is Honey sold? And we did a lot of content around sourcing. We did, we created a lot of content on sourcing. We did a lot of content around the purity of the Honey as a product. And it was a success. It was a success that, you know, wiped away the competition completely, you know. That's one good example. I think moving from B to C, I think we have seen within B to C, a lot of FMCG has done a lot of digital marketing. Kind of if I have to ask you this one, you are, thank you Raj, you are more of a B to B and very less of a B to C. That's a safe assumption I've taken. But you can correct me if I'm wrong. How is digital marketing seeing a different side of an angle when it is B to B, largely, or B to B to C to some extent? What is your perspective on the learning? So cement is about 85% B to C, where the cement is consumed by the consumer. But a lot of the sales to that segment happens through what were called influencers in the earlier era, not social media influencers, but people who are masons, contractors, head masons and our channel partners, people who sell cement for a living out of their shops. To each of these people, digital marketing is still catching up. This is the cohort, which I think we will reach last due to socioeconomic educational reasons. But what is happening is across the entire consumption cycle, whatever it is that you're buying, today it is almost natural and normal behavior to look for it online, even if you cannot or cannot purchase it. How do you make the consumer understand something about your product in the two minutes that you have with them? Cement is a very, very low involvement product. There's a fair chance nobody in this room today would have thought about cement ever, except for the 10 minutes they were asked to buy cement for building their home. How do you use that time? How do you make it simpler and easier for a customer? And for me, it can be as simple as saying the customer having to visit six different outlets trying to understand what cement to buy or having a very confusing conversation with their contractor and the dealer who may have other incentives. How do I basically capture that entire funnel, bring him into my fold? That really makes a difference. Cement is not sold online. It's not an e-commerce or even a direct-to-consumer business today. But outside of the sales, what parts from the awareness to the consumption cycle, which for many brands can be years, but for my brand is minutes. I want to buy a cement or I bought a cement. That journey can be as little as two hours. What difference can I make in that moment? That really brings in the difference. Secondly, over the past two years, digital was a good thing to do for many, many people, but they were at least two elongated periods in the last two years because of the pandemic where people could not get out. So a lot of these people are now getting online and seeing if they can't get out. Let's see if they get something online. How do you make that journey simpler for them? So my thing is not how easy I can make the purchase process. My thing is from the moment a consumer has thought they need to buy cement, how quickly can my person reach out to them and aid their buying. And if I can do that well, and if that is something I can improve on over time, that I think is the short-term goal for me. And then as the market matures, as consumers mature, we will see that. But just one last point, people buying cement by themselves largely happens in what we would call typically tier three cities, bee centers, so on and so forth. People like us, we would either be living in a flat which is constructed by a builder or we would be living in a condo, again, which is in the B2B segment. This segment, what growth we can make vernacular tier three centers, people for whom mobile is really the internet. How do we get into those strutters? That is the real thing that we're working on now. Fairly interesting. I don't think there will be a time sooner we will see cement getting sold on Amazon as well. And that's where your consumers, either in tier three or tier one or tier two, for searching that perspective, the D2C model can be greatly replicated. Ashima, for you, I think you worked your career into Tech Mahindra earlier where, which was one of the pioneers in the digital marketing as well. And today at NLB itself, which is a digital transformation organization, what are your current learnings or the past learnings into the overall digital marketing as an affair? If you can highlight some of them would be interesting. So, I think for me, the most interesting understanding over the last one month of the transition that I've had from Tech Mahindra to NLB, Tech Mahindra, which is a $5 billion company and NLB, which is a $500 million company, the sensitivity to digital is far more. And I think it's the emerging businesses that are acclimatizing themselves to the need of digital far more quicker. I think it is also owing to the young, new age entrepreneurship, because they live in a digital age. Therefore, they understand the giving of the platform much more easier. Also, I think the whole dynamic of the industry is also changing. And I think last two years, all of us marketers who thought, do events, get leads and come back home, we've all realized that this is not going to fix it. And therefore, they need to be able to reach out to a customer in the most relevant way. And I think that's true for a consumer company such as Darbar and it's true for B2B companies such as myself, that a consumer today is looking for information at all times. It just so happens, are you being able to give that information at the right time? And if you're not, you're losing an opportunity. So therefore, the responsibility is to be able to, so just before we enter the room, there was a foundation on, is content important or is channel important? I think one can't include without the other. That's my take. And the, the generous phenomena is, and I say this, you know, so when I joined NLB, their business isn't stopping solutions. Over the life of me, I didn't know that there were 14,000 still assessment platforms. And that's how huge the market is. And that's how diversified the market is for any sphere of life you touch today. If you want to get fired, there's a platform. If you want to get fired, there's a platform. And Twitter is most likely. So that's my take. Very interesting. I think hiring, there are a lot of people in the room who want to look at hiring to take platform. NLB can help you on those lines as well. Archana, coming to you, I think you are the one who's handling a lot of million dollars in media, digital media for retail. There are multiple things. I mean, a lot of us are moving into digital. There is a differentiation where people want to move into digital marketing and people know digital marketing or maybe digital media. I'm sure you would also come across within your team that, we do digital. Or why do we have to do digital? In such scenarios, how do you answer to those questions and how in absence of a third party attribution model into digital spends when you are spending so much on digital marketing, how do you define ROI from personal? I think there's always this constant debate between whether we should do television or digital or a mix of both. And why should we do digital, brand-digital, which is driving top-hand metrics? Because at the end of it, most marketers or brands are interested in finally saying, how many leads did I get? How many acquisitions did I make? So it's always, should we shift all our budgets to performance? But I think over time, with all the experiments we've done, I think over time, everybody, at least now in the companies, that is reliving the value of doing brand-digital in conjunction with performance. And everything goes hand-in-hand, right? We can't do one aspect and not do other things, right? So we've also gotten to advocacy and influencer marketing. We have a command center where we do social listening, right? We've gotten to some bits, not exactly long-form, but content integration on digital. When you see, how do you see results? Fortunately, because we're telecom, you know, we, unlike FMCG where you have to wait for one month later, you'll get the market share and all of that data. And then you know, if you have a campaign as well, here I can get to know practically on a daily weekly basis because there is a CTA which is given. The CTA is either driving traffic. I mean, when I joined ETEL, it used to be a call center. So the CTA used to be a number. So you knew how many calls are coming to the call center on a daily basis and you knew that whether people, if people are calling to inquire about your product, that means somewhere the campaign's working. Now you can see if there's a CTA which drives traffic to the website or to the app, you automatically get to understand if it's working. Now the other most important thing is also looking at consumer journeys while you're building a digital campaign or any campaign. But more so on digital because it's a direct click. And that click has to lead to a certain landing page. I think last year, a lot of effort and work went into driving the consumer journeys and creating these consumer journeys to make them more efficient for consumers and making it more