Hi, my name is Anne Sanders and today we'll be talking about cloning of organisms. So cloning simply means to make an exact copy. It's kind of like making a Xerox copy of something else. So for cloning it's an organism that is genetically identical to another. That's our goal. So people use cloning very often in agriculture, you may not realize this. So if you take a cutting of a plant, so cut the mama plant and then grow it separately, you can do this for roses, butterfly bushes, even tomato plants, you are cloning that plant. You are creating an exact, identical genetic copy to the mother plant. Now another way that you could do this is you could take the roots and you can dice them up with a knife and you can end up with a single cell from that root and if you put it in the right growth media you can then grow the entire organism from that one single cell. So that's a little bit what a more traditional way of thinking about cloning. Now again the take away from this is either process, each new plant is absolutely genetically identical to the old ones. Now for animals cloning is a lot more challenging. Now if I cut off my finger I would not be able to grow a genetically identical person to myself.  I wouldn't be able to grow it from a cutting of myself. So the way that we are able to do cloning in animals is that we are able to do nuclear transplantation. So simply put this is where you isolate the nucleus of a somatic cell. So this is a regular cell in your body, maybe a skin cell, maybe a heart cell, maybe a liver cell. So any of those cells that have all of our 46 chromosomes for humans, alright. Then you remove that nucleus. Now separately in a different petri dish you remove the nucleus of an egg cell. So an egg cell is something that we use for normal reproduction. But again we are going to take away that DNA, we are going to take away that nucleus. And then we simply combine the nucleus of that somatic cell with the empty egg that doesn't have a nucleus. Put those guys together. That is nuclear transplantation to create a clone of that original somatic cell. Let me show you what I mean by that with pictures in just a second. So there are two kinds of cloning that people can do. They can do reproductive cloning or they can do therapeutic cloning. Now the goal of reproductive cloning is simply to create a baby, to create a complete organism. But therapeutic cloning is quite different. So the goal of that is to create cells or tissues for the treatment of disease. Alright, so with reproductive cloning we start with an adult cell, maybe a skin cell, liver cell, whatever. And then we are going to isolate just the nucleus. And so you can see that here in blue. Down here we are going to take an egg cell and we are going to remove, we are going to take away that particular nucleus. And then we are going to combine the nucleus from the adult cell and the body of the egg cell together. So now we have got a single cell but it has got the DNA from an adult. And we are going to take that cell and we are going to put it into a surrogate mother. And then that cell can grow up and create a new baby or a clone of the original adult cell. Now you may be asking yourself, what is this clone going to look like? So I would say to you, follow the DNA. So whatever the DNA is, that is what the organism is going to look like. So again it doesn't matter what the donor of the egg cell looks like. It doesn't matter what the surrogate mother looks like. It is simply that DNA from the original adult cell. Now there are many uses of reproductive cloning. So the first one is used for animals in danger of extinction. So there are certain animals that we have very few of, maybe only a couple hundred, maybe even less than a hundred. And so it is very difficult perhaps for these guys to reproduce on their own. And so we might need an additional means to create more of these animals much more quickly. So if we can find a good surrogate mother, then we can start to use this process, the nuclear transplantation and reproductive cloning, to create a lot more of these animals very quickly. So this has been done successfully for the gray wolf, which we can use a wolf or another dog as a surrogate mother. This has been successful for the mufon where we can use a sheep. So these guys are very similar in their genetics. And for the guar, which looks a lot like a cow, we can again use a cow as the surrogate mother. So not the same species but something that is very similar to its appearance and genetics. We can also use reproductive cloning to create animals for research purposes. So when you are doing a research project or when you are doing an experiment, you want to have one and only one variable. You want to have, for example, a control group and you want to have, on the other hand, an experimental group that receives the drug or receives the treatment or receives whatever. So the only difference you want is that particular therapy. And so if you use reproductive cloning, you can create animals like mice or rats, hundreds of those, thousands of them that have exactly the same genetics. So in theory, they would behave the exact same way. You can also use reproductive cloning to create farm animals. So if you are a farmer and you have a horse that wins whatever those horse races are in Kentucky and things like that, and so you have got a prized horse and you might only have one of them and he might be beyond his normal breeding age. So you can then use reproductive cloning to clone that horse and make a lot of money. Or if you have a prized cow that has certain desirable traits, maybe it's a good milk producer, calves, its babies very well or something like that, again, if you start off with one animal, it's going to take you a very long time to create a herd of those animals to breed and sell. But if you use reproductive cloning and you have an appropriate surrogate mother, you can very quickly expand from one cow to many cows. And then with farm animals, again, you can also reproduce very quickly genetically engineered animals. So if you have a genetically engineered pig or a genetically engineered sheep or something like that, that can produce a useful product for human medicinal purposes, you can very quickly expand that population of those sheeps or those pigs or those other organisms you need. Now there are some limitations. I can't just go out and clone myself. I can't just go out and clone my cat. I can't go out and clone whatever I want because this is very expensive. You need a lot of expertise in order to do this. You need the surrogate mothers in order to do this. So again, very, very expensive. Another limitation is, again, you need those surrogate mothers that are a similar species. So pandas are an endangered species, but we don't have a good surrogate mother for it. So unfortunately, we can't do reproductive cloning for pandas. Also, there's another limitation that you guys might not have thought of, and that's efficiency. So when they were trying to create dolly, the first clone sheep from an adult cell, they started off with 277 nuclear transfers. So that's where we take the nucleus of the adult cell and put it into the egg. They were only able to get out of that 277 nuclear transfers, about 29 embryos. And then they implanted that into 29 different sheep per surrogate mothers, and they got one sheep. So this is a very inefficient process. And you couldn't do this in humans. It wouldn't be ethical yet. And again, there's a lot of ethical issues. Should we do it? Who should be permitted or not permitted to do it? And so right now, at least in the United States, reproductive cloning for humans is absolutely illegal. It's not permitted. Now there is another type of cloning that I mentioned earlier, and that was therapeutic cloning. So again, we start off the exact same way. We do a nuclear transfer. But then instead of putting it into a surrogate mother, we then grow it in a petri dish. And these cells that we grow, depending on what enriched media that we put on them, they can grow into any type of cell in our body, any tissue that's found in our body. And so then we can use these cells. Then we can use these tissues to replace diseased or damaged tissues. So I know one challenge is if somebody gets burns, very severe burns, they've burned away that top layer of skin. And so if you could use therapeutic cloning, you could then grow up more skin cells and then lay those across that burned area and help that person heal much more quickly. And then people are also working to use therapeutic cloning for diabetes, heart disease, and other treatments. But unfortunately, at this time, we can't grow organs. So this technology has not advanced far enough so that we can create an artificial heart or an artificial kidney. But that's something that we're working on.


We'd like to reconvene the meeting of the Board of Public Utilities for the city of Santa Rosa We've had two very informative study sessions upstairs We're now at item number four minutes approval. We have two minutes meetings October 18th At which Gordon McCarney was absent Seem to have the minutes for the November 1st Somebody has that And that one all all were present so it'll take two separate motions and Board member Carney you would abstain from the October 18th discussion I'll move approval of minutes for the meeting of October 18th Motion made by Vice Chair Gale and seconded by Board Member Lowry for October 8th 18th all those in favor signify by saying aye Opposed motion carries unanimously. Thank you with an abstention Next item would be November 1st Make a motion to approve the minutes for the meeting of November 1st second Motion made by Board Member Galvin and seconded by Vice Chair Gale all those in favor signify by saying aye Opposed that motion carries unanimously. I have a Bittersweet task before me at this point Something about a proclamation and After 27 years as the utility director for the city of Santa Rosa miles will be retiring on a very Very significant date. I think we all know what it is, but it happens to be 12 12 12 And as I look at this resolution It seems to be somewhat short In that there are only nine whereas so that's not even one whereas per year of duty But I think it's important enough that I'm going to read this Entire resolution It's a resolution of the Board of Public Utilities thanking Miles Ferris for his contributions to the city of Santa Rosa and the utilities department Whereas on November 1st to 1985 Miles Ferris was officially hired by the city of Santa Rosa as the first director of the newly formed Utilities Department and Whereas miles came on board at a time when the state of the nation Was a department under a cease and desist order in place from the north coast regional water quality control border and Whereas miles took over and developed a high quality department that is highly respected throughout the utility arena And whereas miles has supported the organization to be on the cutting edge of the industry By being the first city in northern California to have advanced tertiary treated wastewater and Installing the first system in the United States to disinfect 100% of its wastewater and ultralight ultraviolet light and Whereas in 1992 Miles was given the recycling and an innovation ID of the year award for his innovative approach to recycling reclaimed wastewater by drinking it And Whereas miles has been a proactive director evolving with the changing times by continually reorganizing to maintain the most efficient and effective department and Whereas miles has created a supported working environment for all utilities employees and has shown his appreciation by providing positive recognition for the outstanding work performed Including visiting employees during weekends evenings and holidays when they are needed to provide continued services And whereas miles has led and been key in all utilities employees providing outstanding customer service to the citizens of Santa Rosa and Where miles has led the department in obtaining its many awards and recognitions including 1990 planned of the year 2002-03 theodore roosevelt environmental word 2004 commitment to the environmental leadership award geysers project 2004 water use project to the year award again the geysers project 2005 Claire a hill award for excellence the geysers project 2008 national second-place clean water act recognition award for pre-treatment program excellence 2000 interstate renewable energy council renewable energy innovation award for aquatic biomass to fuel 2008 water reuse institute of the year for the sub regional reuse system 2009 AMWA platinum award for utility excellence 2009 aqua theater roosevelt environmental award for excellence in national resources management And 2011 sustainable infrastructure and partnerships special award Now therefore be resolved at the board of public utilities and the citizens of Santa Rosa wish to thank Miles a ferris for his 20 years seven years of service Be it further resolved that the city will miss his excellent management and engineering skills dedication and its humorous stories Be it further resolved that miles is off to hit the dusty trails and there will be no more birds under the saddle Dooley and regulated adopted by the city of Santa Rosa Board of Public Utilities this 28th day of November 2012 and I will say that it gives me great pleasure to sign this resolution on behalf of the board The one thing that is missing here is I think I can speak for this entire board We're not only losing the director of our utility department We're losing a friend here at the dice that I've enjoyed working with for my tenure on the board. Thank you I Now open it up to any of the other board members who would like to make a comment I'll start here to my far left But Dan if you have any comments and we'll go around the board boy Mr. Miles I just have to say that When I first came on this board as a newbie I was really a fish out of water and Miles you in particular I think took me under your wing and helped me to Begin to grasp all the technicalities and intricacies of this department and how it operates and I just want to thank you for Not just your years of service to the city but to the individual members of this board over the years that relied upon you for advice and guidance and your expertise and It's going to be an interesting transition period and one that I Sympathize right now with whoever your successor happens to be because he or she's gonna have some awfully big shoes to fill Good luck to you in your retirement. Well, thank you What number swim I just wanted to say also, thank you so much your Calm positive can do approach sets tone for this board that Helps it so we can all operate Productive way and it really comes from Those values that you said for yourself and your department and it spills over to all of us It's been just a joy to work with you. So thank you Vice chair do I Also want to say thank you when I first came on the board. I had a similar experience to bands. I think that No one understands actually the complexity of something like the utility department and you make it You have made it I think for many people Understandable and your patience with us has helped us to make great progress and understanding the utilities area one of the things I've come to Appreciate in my short tenure on the board is that not only do you foster innovation within your department? But you also bring a wisdom that has helped us I think to avoid problems and to not move too quickly When what was actually best was to have a considered approach to issues that where that was extremely appropriate And I think that wisdom that you brought is something that Anyone who comes next will have a hard time bringing that to the board and personally And I just want to thank you very very much for all the assistance and for your leadership board member law Miles I want to say I appreciate what you've been able to provide me I've only been on the board for a few years But your ability to Have me participate in various tours within the facility to find out more about how the operation works Meeting various staff members within the organization and although I'm primarily a tax and accounting instructor I also Talked about many theory at Sonoma State University And I want to say that you followed the principles that we we provided in the classroom Which we rarely see on the outside and you did have that a marvelous job where you've got a staff that's Working well It's calm. There's no crises. It's generally speaking that are causing all kinds of bad decisions how you take your time and checking things out and Patience And you will out you've done a great job and I do appreciate what you've provided for me And I appreciate what you've provided for the utility department and city of Santa Rosa. Thank you Board member current Thank you I've come to appreciate the utility department as a world-class organization And then we happens for one reason and that's its leader and my compliments to you on what you have Um, what you have created here, and it will be appreciated for a long long time to come Congratulations I hope you enjoy your retirement Do my best And since uh The two ladies that might far right have sat up here at the diaspora this for so long. I'm going to ask Assistant city attorney Suzanne longs to make any comments. She wishes and then board secretary Jen Perez. Thank you chairman doubt. It is truly been my pleasure to work with miles Oh very closely the last 14 years and actually a little bit back in the 80s when When miles was the director of a newly established department, which he basically built from scratch into the world-class department it is today I'm very proud to say that I work with the city of Santa Rosa when I go to the statewide organizations aqua and casa We are always well ahead of the curve Always in good shape on compliance. It makes my job as an attorney easy And I've been extremely proud to work with miles and his department For the last decade or more and miles. I wish you all the best in your retirement. Thank you Mrs. Perez It's been my pleasure to to work for the utilities department Um, I am coming on 11 years with the department now working in various areas and in my experience You have treated everyone within the organization the same No matter what level they happen to be The fact that anybody can go and talk to you at any time is appreciated much within the organization And Thank you. I believe There's a lot of other staff here They certainly can feel free to wave and and speak if they choose, but I know that uh Del Trident does have some comments that he wanted to make Can you put the time a little bit on Get the claw ready Can we have the three minutes please Turn down members of the board including board member galvin I'm not sure you hear me try that one. Okay Um, okay. Can you hear me? Okay. All right. Thank you Actually, the reason I'm up here is because of deputy director pal. He reminded me of something that Miles really stimulated several years ago and Mark has the ability to remember things that happen in this organization as well as miles remembers every single second of his police work and has Has recanted to us so I guess after sitting through the study session and listening This really is and this really was kind of an interesting Process that we talked about because of miles's ability to solve problems his desire and his motivation to innovate his desire to make money and to stay solvent and Particularly for creative reuse And so what i'm going to be talking about today briefly is The former logo for the city of santa rosa and I can you uh Do you guys have screens or? Okay, well you gotta turn around look at this. This is you know, this is kind of you know blowing my presentation here. Sorry So this was the original city of santa rosa was the check mark And there was a movement of foot back in 1993 to change the logo and While miles wasn't necessarily opposed to changing the logo He was struck as a as a practical engineer with the legacy of this on cars on letterhead on business cards on and so this really bugged him and He came to me to help Probably because I walked past his office At the time when he was hit with this and he just and he needed a solution to it So he sent me on the task of helping How do we solve this problem with the logo change? How do we transition? so the first thing That we did or we looked at was Really going to Make some money and so we we came up with with this And we approached Film night the ceo and and basically the primary stockholder of nike And we thought this would be a subtle way. We could K it over the check mark and we could use it on police cars and everything else But unfortunately film night insisted on point instead of a city designed for living He wanted to have just do it up there and that did not go well with ken blackman So we we We opted for that so in in hoping to curry favor with ken blackman Who was a runner and I know the board member swimp is and it is and some of you other you may appreciate this one We came up with this one for the city manager's office Which is as you may be able to see is not not a nike, but it's a flag Basically the check mark we could overlay it and that Maybe didn't go over too well Except as you can see it was a city designed for running and I understand and correct me if i'm wrong I think the city of prune dale adopted this as their logo, so I don't know but Okay Then he was trying to curry favor with the transportation department, so He opted for this amendment, which was highway 12, which is still unresolved today And because he loves law enforcement or a public safety we he Like this one for the fire department And then finally for us And this is again i'm going to highlight the date here. We're talking 1994 This was the logo that he approved for this for the department the utilities department Which presaged the pipeline to the geysers and then I started to look at this And said well, where does it actually go, you know, where does this go? so I took I sort of found a map in the In the uh And I don't know if you can see it This is a map from the united states. It sort of roughly fits this and you can see that we're dumping our water according to miles Here between colorado and wyoming Well, we felt a little bit shorter colorado in wyoming, but we did do that we did make it to the geysers So that's where that's where los angeles gets its water But in any case this was a this was our reason this was his solution To a problem while we had the interruption that of course is most of you know And this is uh and in the files when I went back to the files I looked for this I found this which shows that on the fall of 1996 the This logo was adopted from So it does put it in the context and you can see this as a police chief was put on board This was maybe two or three police chiefs ago miles Yeah, so anyway, so this is sort of our way or my way of Of highlighting all of the accolades that were Put on miles. This is an evidence. You probably would have never known about Until unless mark pal and miles would have stimulated this so thank you for Chairman doubt on board for the opportunity to present this little thing Good job To wrap up the comments if you go back to the written resolution that I Read to all of you. I think the thing is most impresses me about Miles tenure here in the city of san rosa is about this First or second whereas to the last one with all the awards When miles came here this department was in dire straits under a cease and desist order Very very difficult to operate under those conditions miles came in started to turn the ship And it was even then a big ship. It's grown immensely since then as our community has grown but I think as you listen to Those whereas is the awards that this department has received has certainly been done With miles guidance and leadership and his style But it also is contributable to all of the hard-working Uh good employees that he's had the blessing to work for him as well. So as a whole Good job miles in fact. Thank you we have We have two consent items Which I think are self-explanatory unless someone wishes to pull them off Uh Jennifer Burke as vice chair of Aqua is 6.1 and 6.2 is an extension of a contract for Polymer supply And it's for an additional one-year term With no unit price increase and the actual amount is Additional is less than what we had budgeted in the previous year I'll entertain motions on the consent calendar Also move to approve both consent items second Motion made by board member lauri for the two consent items and seconded by vice chair gale All those in favor signify by saying aye. All right Opposed motion carries unanimously. Thank you uh, mr. Chairman members of the board uh, the first report item Is 7.1 Which is a reimbursement agreement with the sonoma moran area rapid transit district for the design And construction of water and sewer main improvements at various street railroad crossings uh city project identification number 1747 And authorizing utilities director to amend and to increase the not to exceed amount to 800 thousand dollars Deputy director lem right will make the staff presentation and If there's any questions, of course as you look into the agreement that we don't cover We're here to answer Okay, well good afternoon that chairman members of the board actually i'm a little disappointed I didn't I was so happy that finally I didn't have to depend on a power point to have presentations And now it's at your back. It's perfect for me, but it's difficult for you to see Uh, but anyway as uh director ferris pointed out This is a presentation on the reimbursement agreement with smart to put in essentially casings at six rail crossings in santa rosa So if you recall, uh, we brought together almost an emergency item. We thought on august 16th Uh for this agreement and apparently it couldn't have been that much of an emergency because uh, None of our facilities have been covered up by tracks yet And it is now I believe almost december so I don't know the full reason what the holdup was I understand the rails got delayed somewhere in the midwest and didn't come out here Or something like that, but um, we do uh, the the smart did actually install a casing on um, Sebastopol road that put a 60 inch casing in So some work has happened so there's actually two items In front of you today. There's one and which is the agreement that we discussed back on august 16th Which was for uh, $269,000 to reimburse A smart for the project on Sebastopol road and also on eighth street Since then changes have occurred In the design build arena And we have the opportunity to increase that contract So, uh, there's a the second item of this presentation is an amendment Should the board Increasing the amount of the agreement the way the the amendment is structured is that you authorize the director of utilities To execute amendments up to the maximum of $800,000 to do the agreements Um, there's no magic about that number $800,000 Uh, there's the board certainly has options to not have that amendment as it stated in the in the in the packet We could bring it back to you again. We could make the amendment for less. So there's no Magic concept of $800,000 or having the the director of utilities sign that was just something That's just the way we presented it in the packet So essentially there are uh Six crossings that we're working on right now First one is Sebastopol road that is done that when we put a casing in At third street, um, there's a 12 inch, uh cast iron water pipe with no casing So we want to put a casing in there and So on these projects, we're having the railroad put in the casings and what we're doing is buying Finding or valving off the water pipe The railroad would put the casing in and then our crews or a city contractor would then put the water main in That is true for water on the wastewater side. We can't really Not have the wastewater flow for several days. So in those cases, we're actually having the railroad installed the wastewater So on seven street, uh, there's a six inch of vitrified pipe with no casing We want to put a casing in there and in that circumstance We would have the railroad actually install the casing and Reinsert the sewer on the very same day On eight street, uh, there's actually a six inch, um cast iron water pipe Which is in conflict with their actual crossing So they need to move it to put their facilities and it also doesn't have a casing And there's also an eight inch vcp Um, excuse me, it's an eight inch vcp sewer main at that location Which again, we would put a casing in and reinstate the sewer West roadways, um, there's no crossing at all there But we have in our master plans. We have plans to put a 12 inch Water main at that location. Obviously it's way cheaper to put the casing in now And lastly at Jennings Uh, we didn't even this wasn't even on our radar. Actually Jennings. There's a 12 inch water main there, which is cased And we found out just uh, probably six weeks ago that at that location the railroad is going to double track it so What happened was that it's a quite a complicated site The water agency's aqueduct actually is inside the railroad right of way just within feet Just the one side of the pipe is on the edge Uh, and we have a there's a turnout right there and in our wisdom We put a pressure reducing valve in the railroad right of way, which is going to be right on the toe of the ballast of the tracks So the the problem is there. We have to get our pressure reducing valve out of the Um railroad right of way the agency has to relocate their turnout Which is in the right of way and also as fate would have it there the we did we cased it But we only put the casing far enough to go underneath the single track So there's actually when you have double track we have now we have to extend the casing We're actually kind of doing a design in this right now. I don't know what we'll have to do We'd like to extend the casing that seems like the simplest thing to do But uh, it's at the same grade as the aqueduct So that means we have to go up or under or recase it That's still under design and don't know exactly how that's going to go And that's kind of part of the reason why we're going with this $800,000 number And we don't really if you ask me for a blow blow blow how exactly it's going to be spent We don't know because we're still trying to design around the railroad's Program It's one problem we've found with the railroad is the design build is a pretty cool deal But in the railroad when they're within the right of way the puc regulates them So they design it and then they show us the plans and then they build it So there's in a normal project people would design it it would get reviewed and we would get to comment But not with the design build railroad system inside the puc the puc or controls so So the way that this contract is structured is that it's on a force account basis And force account means it's basically time and material And the way we're it's written right into the agreement that the city will monitor the force account Work and will actually at the end of the day the way force account typically works is the contractor will do his work The city will inventory materials use equipment use menus They have standard cal trans rates and it's calculated that way So the city will be totally responsible for monitoring the cost of the construction The railroad will actually do Ultimate final designs and provide records for us even though it'll be designed with within our standards And at our grade and direction, but they will actually provide designs for us The railroad is going to charge us eight percent overhead On top of the construction cost and the The argument that that's their normal rate of overhead. They say They've re excuse me the normal rate of overhead is 10 percent, but they reduced it to eight percent Because we're doing the oversight of the force account work So that's in a nutshell is where we're at We normally we probably would have bought this to you back consent because we did have a discussion Back in august, but because of this this new Amendment we wanted to get your input Thank you deputy director right Questions comments board member lauri They were running freight trains over these tracks before Smart got involved with changing the tracks When the freight trains ran over these intersections I don't know why wasn't there a problem then why didn't we start doing things Like casings way back when Well, actually, you know casings have been the rule for as long as I can remember But our facilities and their facilities were predated that One problem is when The pipes that we have underneath these tracks are quite old In two cases. I think I said vitrified clay pipes. They will need to be replaced at some time At that time if we don't put a casing in Now we'll go and dig two huge pits on either side of the railroad and we'll actually have to Force a casing underneath Which is probably in a perfect world is probably at least twice as expensive But for some reason around railroad tracks, we always find heavily contaminated soil Which seems to escalate the price Suspensionally so in this case the railroad that takes full responsibility for all the soil that take out of there It becomes theirs And we just get the casing. Thank you Board member carning So I I understand the the time of materials component. Can you can you tell me? How much of the 800,000 or whatever number it turns out to be would you expect as a percentage to be materials and how much labor Let's see I can't really tell you exactly. I know that the The casing the entire bill on sabassal road was $50,000. That's what the time and material They used to reinforce concrete Casing down there typically we use steel casings they I'm not sure that was the pipe that was available on the day they had to do it and there were The train was coming the tracks were coming on the street and that's what they used and it's acceptable. That's allowable in our standards Since then we did some research and located steel casings and to put it in the steel casing It was around 22 or $23,000 just to purchase the casing itself So then if you look at the So the there's then there's the digging the trench. There's the backfill placing the thing So figure 22 25 is the actual casing I don't know another three or four thousand dollars for backfill Then probably another twenty thousand dollars or something for equipment and labor and things like that That's pretty rough. Okay And I can understand being on the job and being able to Audit if you will the materials used but how do you actually do that with the labor? And this is all under the heading of this is a brand new thing for us to be doing design bills and How are we going to be doing design bills in the future in terms of controlling How much it should be is there a Engineers estimate before you go in well actually this is outside the design bill typically I think we need to do a design bill the contractor bids one lump sum and for that price He'll design it and he'll build it but in this case smart has got that contract and so we're not really involved with that piece of it They are offering to give us a bid price to do the work but The problem is there's risk and all these other issues And their prices are very high and that's why we determined it's better To do it on a force account basis Hopefully we won't be wrong, but we believe that's that's correct So in terms of doing force account work, there's actual very strict rules on doing that The state of california has a specification and they call that's what they call force account and they have a section and they have Two major books.  There's all sorts of stuff. So and they have forms So you basically count up the people Put them in your chart you count up the equipment you put her in your chart You do the extensions and it gives you a number that nobody can dispute So the real item that is disputed typically in force account is who is actually there That's why it's important for the city to have a representative standing on the ground Seeing when people come seeing when people go what equipment was there and that sort of thing That's very helpful. Thank you. Do you think the 2% is sufficient to cover the oversight? 2% of overhead. Oh, no, they're they're giving us a deduction of 2% right So those people are on our staff. They will be our staff out of our engineering division will be down Will that deduction be sufficient to to pay for the The labor that we will spend well quite truthfully That was a negotiated amount. They wanted to charge us 10 overhead and we said well wait We're doing all this work. So we agreed on 2% and you know, that's okay. That's the way it went Okay, and just out of curiosity How big are the casings and how much bigger are the casings and the pipes that are running through them? I think the casings are 24 inches and we'll put a 12 inch in there Or 20 inch maybe in a 12 inch pipe So what we do is we put a casing in and we put them on in a wastewater side We put them in with skids underneath them And then we'll fill the casing full of a Sand cement slurry so it'll be more solid in there. So it'll be it'll be support the tracks Thank you I have vice chair again a couple of questions The concept of force accounting That's being employed here What is that normally used for? Why does that exist in the lexicon of things that are available? Well the most common way well in road construction or any kind of underground construction all sorts of things happen that you didn't anticipate And so when you dig a bigger hole and you find an old, uh, you know bridge down there and you have to remove it And you can't stop the contract and get a bid from the contractor to keep going So typically what we do is we just say we'll do it on track the hours and do it on force account We actually have our on call contracts that we do and Those are all paid on a force account basis those are a little different though because the There's a labor markup and the contractor actually bids his labor markup and that's the way we get competitive price on that Okay, so in so in this instance, essentially our work is being viewed as Um What what what i'm interpreting that your description is being if you had a contract that covered it was a designable contract that covered A certain statement of work with a certain requirement and something that was beyond The scope of the require of the contract came up And you didn't want to delay the project. You would then use this force accounting approach Is that correct? I would just prevent disruption Also, but also we use it a lot in regular normal bid contracts also It's it's very common way of doing work that isn't actually unexpected labor Okay, and the reason you use this formula for a formulamatic approach That's approved by the state and is in Whatever the documentation is that you're referred to the reason for using that is to Avoid discussion and kind of the negotiation the back and forth It's typical with change orders on contracts Well, for example, they gave us a lump sum, you know, no problem No risk price of 90 thousand dollars to do a sabastable road And we said well, there's no way you're gonna spend 90 thousand dollars down there And so rather than argue over that we said just do it force account and so it's A lot of contractors don't like force account They don't think the markups are enough to make the profit they need but that's that's what's been established by the state That's what's used throughout the state Okay, and if we look at the 123456 including jenny if we look at those six specific Work statements of work if you will for each of those six different activities Do you have an estimate engineering estimate from the city city's perspective of what each one of those should cost? You know, we don't when we really looked at that closely is eighth street and I think that one's uh It's around $50,000 for the casing on eighth street. What we're gonna do is we can We have enough our we'll just gonna cut the pipe on their side We have enough actually fire flow that we can do that And and blind fans and they'll put us they'll put a casing in there And then they're so they're gonna pay charges around around the same price We think for the casing there, but the wastewater pipe is I think like like 90 thousand dollars I think the whole cost for eighth street is gonna be we're estimating around 130 thousand dollars So they're actually giving us proposed estimated costs So we'll in an effort because obviously You know, they understand that this is a force-account contract and one problem with these is you don't want you can't go over your contract amount So you have to kind of keep tracking as you go along Okay, what I'm wrestling with is The the range you've given us here to consider 269 thousand dollars to 800 thousand dollars I'm wrestling with what's really appropriate in terms of oversight and control And I guess I'm a little uncomfortable actually with the ambiguity that's associated with approving for example an 800 thousand dollar contract without having some more understanding of Will that in fact cover all six crossings? Is it likely to only cover two? It I would be more comfortable if I had more understanding of what it was. We're actually being asked to authorize Yeah, and that's why we we brought this to you for to have that discussion and I say we can actually We have options here. I think I think we should go forward Well, I recommend we go forward the first contract that we talked about before the 269 But as far as the amendment We can Bring that back At a later time We could do a lower cost amendment and come back with With future as we as we get closer down on prices or we have we could do, you know, whatever the board would like And in terms of timeline for the six activities that are listed here in the staff report If you based on the timeline that you anticipate today Well, all of that work be completed in six months. We'll be completed in a year and a half. What's the Well, that's a good question when we brought this to you on august 16th I thought it was all gonna be happening in like three weeks. That's what I was going to believe for the railroad now The weather's coming in, you know, I just you know, it's I'm not managing the construction contract But I do know the railroad is very anxious to put their facilities in and once they get going They do actually lay track very quickly. So We anticipate that would be done in the next, you know, before march or something. I'm just speculating I think you'll find when they start that three week period will probably be just about right And I think the part of lunch raising is when When will track it here? When will they You know what with the weather due to a Sutter, but the actual work when they start moving on these tracks is just amazing They say they can do 400 feet a day. That's what the railroad has told us And so of course and and through a lot of the city of san aroza at the track is double tracked Which is something I didn't realize before about a month ago. So And and they are currently putting those crossings in I went over one just yesterday On one of the streets that's we're not impacted by but it's happening and I certainly encourage because of the risk Not getting these crossings in I certainly can state and I I concur with deputy director Wright's comment that the force account method and the The cost numbers are a standard of the industry state set by the state of california Department of transportation and so it's common throughout the state and I I think that If this board wishes to Watch and and is concerned about the cost that we should authorize this full amendment uh with check-ins as as to what The crossings as they occur have cost us so that they don't have to we don't have to form Special meeting to deal with this and we don't risk not getting the crossing in Our facilities in before the crossing Is ready to be installed. So I I think that there's enough safeguards in this Using standard cost procedures and our oversight of it from our own utility people That our repairs are being protected in the process anybody else I move a resolution of the board and I I guess I think that the corporate chairman doubts comments and what I'm hearing him say and I concur is that we're Asking for reports back as the crossings go in to get calibrated on the price Yeah, I'd like to ask for specificity there and how frequently the checkbacks would be I think I would be comfortable moving forward if we had A check back if you will Every time that there is a crossing completed so we could see what the actual costs were And have the ability to make adjustments at those times I don't see that that's Inappropriate and you could add that to the resolution if you so choose Okay, so That may have to be done by if I might I have one further question and just perhaps others understand. I don't Is it your Estimate that 800,000 will take care of all the crossings That's what we're thinking right now again Like I pointed out that Crossing at Jennings After we started potholing it and looking at it it got very complicated But we still believe right now it's $800,000 and As new information Comes forward I can I can report that to the board I can report that either in a written memo or I'm certainly here a lot I can give a verbal update also on that Let me second the motion so we can have discussion It seems to me that the resolution state that as each as each crossing is Completed that you will send out an email blast to the board saying unless it comes at a time when we have a board member A bpu meeting scheduled you can do it by just information basis So the way I see that is once a project is completed And the but and all the all the extensions of the force count work is done and I know at a cost We would distribute that to the board I'll be happy to do that Okay, so with that on the resolution. Oh, that's right one more Are these going to be any of these going to be simultaneous? Or are they in fact one at a time Actually, they might be pretty quick because if they're doing 400 feet of a day I mean the distance between 8th street and 7th street isn't very far. So they might be working on them simultaneously My only concern is 800,000 was light And they're doing them all right We don't want to have to come back in emergency session to okay a little bit of money just to make sure this is done So that that's my understanding of 800,000 dollars was that it was more than enough for the initial estimate though Yeah, that that's my question. Yeah, it's There's no guarantees on that but that's what we're thinking is a sufficient amount of money Yeah, and actually my original concern My original concern actually is this is the this will be the first time we've used this particular approach With this specific situation and as you're indicating We don't know what will be found. We don't know what additional costs may be may be incurred When I look at Well the maps down now When I when I look at the map that was originally there It appeared that there are several crossings that likely would be done maybe one at a time And then as you move to the north because I believe they're going south to north And as you move to the north there are more crossings that would probably be done in simultaneous way What I was hoping for In the reason why I support the language that's being added to the resolution Is that uh seemed to be a means of Getting a higher level of comfort That 800,000 dollars would in fact be sufficient Do you as and that was also kind of what I was getting at with timeline How quickly will we actually know whether these estimates are reasonable Is it your belief Is based on what you know today about the projects Is it your belief that there will be sufficient time To make adjustments that may be necessary if reality is different from the engineering instruments But I think you have to look at this resolution as it is before you and it says not to exceed amount of 800,000 so it Nothing can be okayed if if this project exceeds 800,000 without a revisit to the board Right, I understand that. Um, however If we approve well Because this is actually a new area And because there are unknowns About what the condition is that will be encountered you could encounter situations where $800,000 is twice what you're actually going to incur I'm actually less concerned about that situation Um, and so I'm as long as staff is comfortable That they would have the ability to continue work Within the kind of constraints that we're talking about and also protect us from the risk of being in a situation where It's not 800,000 dollars. It's a million two and it has to be approved next week Because of the time face facing what's occurring on the design work project with the railroad I'm actually concerned about both of those issues But I'm more concerned about the issue of actually addressing overrun above and beyond the 800,000 dollars So what I'm what I'm suggesting If this particular amendment that's being discussed now Will allow you to Have sufficient time to actually know what the costs are And to know Whether or not your initial estimates are accurate. I'm comfortable with it That's really what I'm trying to ascertain from your perspective. Yeah Well, actually, I personally haven't been in discussion with the railroad but based on staff people that are this is what they're recommending So that's I mean, that's all I can tell you from my personal point of view right now Uh, I personally we needed not to exceed number and I actually don't like having large and not to exceed numbers because Other people see that number that are doing the work. So Right So, so let me kind of bring it back If we were to approve this amendment with an 800,000 dollar cap And with you reporting back Each time that there is a completion On which you could say what the costs will actually be What I am hearing I believe is that that would allow us to move forward with some certainty As we get new information each time that the crossing is complete Yeah, if if we believe there's a problem, we will immediately Get something on the agenda and get it to the board and I think two weeks is Typically we meet every two weeks. It's gonna be difficult this christmas time But I think well enough time to get something in front of the board What I'm really hoping to avoid is that special meeting where we have to be here in three days And there's really very little time for For us to actually do information gathering before the meeting takes place One of the six is already done right so that's Yeah, and that was just 50,000 so So you have five more to go we have five more to go 750,000 Yeah, and and one of them is just a casing with no pipe. So that's probably gonna be 50,000 So I mean 8th street is a difficult one And jennings is going to be difficult But uh, this is a couple of the other ones aren't that difficult So we got it's a mix and actually, you know In the utility business we're used to digging where we don't know what's underneath there That happens every day of our life. Believe me. You never know where you're going when you dig underground Is there a reason we we have I mean we're gonna do this And we're gonna do it under this It's not like they're gonna come to us at the end and we say well, we don't want to do the last under So do we need a number? Do we have to have a not-to-exceed number? I can't just say we're doing I think is Is deputy director right indicated he would feel more comfortable if we have not to exceed and I think director ferris would as well so it strikes me that the you know, we're talking about a risk here of of exceeding the 800k and the risk is that We will be will we be able to react quickly enough to get money to complete a crossing Which we all see is as quite necessary and I it seems like deputy director right has You know research as much as he could to figure out what a number is it's much higher than if he just multiplied 50 by seven and So I think we kind of have to we have to trust that and then we have to be willing We know there's a risk and we may have to react so Um, I think that's the best we can do Did you see any other you know if I might give you some comfort The city manager can authorize an additional 100,000 if she You know if we have a a small gap it will know for sure I guarantee if there's a 200,000 dollar problem if they you know dig into as Deputy rights mentioned A bridge one of the worst ones I remember was a 10,000 gallon buried fuel tank On west college We were doing water and sewer replacement right in the middle of the intersection which and a lot of concrete And so, you know you can't I mean When said you can every day you dig it's a genuine surprise What you can run into but I think with that caveat you're real safe And then it would come back to the board for approval Okay With that all I am yes, I'll move a resolution of the board of public utilities Approving a reimbursement agreement with Sonoma Marin area rail transit district For design and construction of water and sewer improvements at various railroad crossings City product project identification number 1747 And authorizing the director of utilities to amend the agreement to increase the not to exceed amount I think and it's stated as 800k here in the resolution also With the additional request from vpu of reporting back of the cost via email to the board of public utilities As each crossing is completed and as significant new information comes forward Second and the amount is shown in the text. Yes, the amount is shown in the text of 800k second second a motion made by Board member swinth and seconded by board member carney all those in favor signify by saying I Opposed Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. And it's a it's a good discussion and I think Clear that the board wants to give you Latitude to get this thing done in a timely manner that you're directly right But we obviously still have our fiduciary responsibility to our repairs Carry on I think you got the next one I got the next item and once again I have to apologize. I'm gonna make you turn around again Uh, I don't know in the future. Maybe we'll have to learn how to turn the tv sets on Anyway Well, good afternoon again The chairman data members of the board Actually the data i'm telling you right now is at nine o'clock this morning and based on the rain We had at the msc south.  We should have uh some some interesting results There's a I plotted this this morning at the department of water resources Website you can see the little blip that we had and our little five inches of rain that we had just before Thanksgiving there So as of today, uh, Lake Sonoma has 203,918 acre feet in it. That's actually nine o'clock this morning That's 83 of the water supply pool or 53.5 of the total Uh, they're releasing 132 cubic feet per second and it's receiving almost a thousand cubic feet to suspect per second at nine o'clock this morning So that's um These are 100 day plots incidentally And the first thing you'll notice on this thing. There's a little wiggle up there and I can't figure out what that is I'll talk about that a little bit more in a second, but um, Lake Mendocino, uh, again the Uh, the five inches, uh, didn't do as much up there in Yacaya And that's probably because the uh, they only have a 100 acre watershed Actually to Lake Mendocino and not much water is coming through the tunnel right now Uh, so Lake Mendocino has 54,639 acre feet That's 78 of the water supply and 45 fulls. So from a flood control point. We're in good shape Uh, in is 200 and out is 153 So I tried to uh, figure out what that little wiggle was. I think it's just a computer glitch but so what I did was got a plot of the, um, Potter valley flows Thinking that might be maybe they released a big slide of the water is Potter valley So there's right below there, uh, are the releases from, uh, lake Pillsburyth to Van Arsdale into Potter valley and then into Lake Mendocino And it looks like the little wiggle there is kind of when they drop the flows, but it's it's hard to say But as you can see right now, they're not releasing very much through through at Van Arsdale Lake Pillsbury Again same trend you can see the five inches of rain there Lake Pillsbury is at 23,348. That's 27 percent Uh, and they're, uh, releasing 285 cubic feet per second Then when you get down to Van Arsdale, uh, 240 cubic feet is going down the eel and 50 is going to Potter valley At Lake Haas, at Lake Haas, excuse me, at Haasienda bridge A lot more dramatic in the river when you see five inches of rain But at nine o'clock this morning, um, Haasienda Had, uh Only 425 cubic feet per second And I wouldn't with that much rain. We might be up to I don't know a thousand by now. Who knows it's hard to hard to say um Probably you read in the newspaper that uh, we had 6400 Chinook Go up the river. So that's an all-time record. So this is a record of bumper year Just so you can see So the last time it looks like it was 2003 that we even got close to that Um, and I I spoke to their biologist this morning. The rubber dam is down now, of course waiting for the You know for the higher flows. It was removed a week ago And so once the dam is down the fish just go up the river They don't need to go up the fish ladder. So counting is done. So he says this can be There's still they're reevaluating the videos and there's going to be a few more fish But it's going to be greater than 6400 but less than 6500 Um on monday December 3rd. Um, we have a tack meeting at 9 o'clock and then on Thursday, I guess that's the 6 There's an rrwa meeting in windsor at 9 o'clock And that concludes my report I have a question I have a question. Yeah You mentioned that lake sonoma is 83% of the water supply Mendocino is 78% of the water supply, but pilsbury is only 27 Yeah, um Okay, you got to remember that uh It's not a water spoil lake. It's a power lake And it's it also has a component to it that neither that sonoma definitely doesn't have and mendocino really doesn't have Except for what water comes from the eel is that it impounds water In snow. There's actually a large snowfall behind lake pilsbury. There's actually a mountain there called snow mountain And so they leave that lake very low until later on in the season when the snow melts and then it fills up So also, uh pgne likes to drain that water out of there so that they can produce power and make money So an empty lake means more money for the power company Thank you That completes that item. We have public comments and non-agenda items, but it looks like we can skip run on through that We have no referrals No written communications any subcommittee reports The uh the budget subcommittee met On Monday of this week and is planning an additional meeting during the month of december I had one report. Um, as you know, um, board member carney and I are working on biosolids with david goon and staff and we Met with some of the engineers that are working on that project a couple weeks ago. We had a fascinating To I think it was about a two-hour meeting and one of the things that they Said that I think that really surprised me and probably surprised you was that 25 of the Biosolid mass that we deal with is coming from garbage disposals and I had no idea that it was that high and uh Yeah, a number of people compost their garbage their kitchen waste, but we don't for a number of reasons But it would be interesting to see if there are some other ways to Encourage people to do that or at least to help me find solutions to the problems I find when I do try to compost it, but um, I thought it was really interesting Others board member reports And Director's report, uh, mr. Chairman. I have a few items. Uh, you already took up a lot of time You know this idea that you were going to retire or something out of yeah The LTP facility access road paving project is complete and we're raising the iron The staff thanks you for the rapid approval. So we have a Wet weather working condition. It is really good compared to where we were at the wastewater treatment plant We're working on making the south driveway the main entrance to the plant I was out there yesterday and they were doing the conform paving to the street. So we're very close on that Range avenue and this is one of those projects that Um, you know part of our water supply mission is fire protection And sometimes we all forget that that is one of the major things that we do provide our ratepayers and Range avenue is not a replacement project. It's not it's a fire project We raised the size to 12 so that we can meet the fire flow requirements Of a large number of apartment houses that to occupy that area You know if you you could avoid doing those things along you never have a fire All as well But when you do have a fire and you can't put it out, um, you know, we need to we need to shoot somebody and You know to make it better And to us it's better that we have a model We model these things and we get them fixed as we have the time Or the interchange time to do it and the job is now tied in Montgomery village is a project that is coming at north point Midway McGowan Hannah and Sonoma They're going to be uh, I think the most important part of this is there was meetings With the Montgomery village representatives on November 5th to discuss project coordination And how they're going about it. Uh, one of the options There's options and we want to make sure that we have one is Is you just close it down the street and you just go all out and finish it Get it paid get it done get it back in service And you can do that in a matter of a few days and you can work long and hard and add hours and do whatever Otherwise you can do it little bites at a time You know just about what a day's production is And you you know every day a section is closed and and finally it's paid There's different ways of doing it. You know, we're meeting with the operators out there to try and determine What works best for them in their business Um We got some very interesting compliments on our work Actually, this is on colorado Boulevard and we had a customer called come in to cruise. She said that They had all been very nice and consider it with all her needs and her questions Which is when you get somebody to do that, you realize you're it's not our cruise. This is a contractor We've done the right thing and And that's very pleasing nor did we in oliver victor lane area water customer called To compliment our engineering technician on their responsive and person personable work resolving problems the customer was having with the project And I think you know, you heard today, you know when we talked about our You know internally how we worry about Coordinating and and working well inside and how we push so hard on customer service And I think this is an example of another department's coving Ferguson's operation Uh, you know pushing that same issue that we try to make sure we satisfy our customers and meet their needs and Uh, that'd be it doesn't mean you blow them off and walk on down the road and forget it means you take care of their issues and and resolve them and Those are the some of the things that came out of it Finally, this is my last bpu meeting Uh, I won't be here for the december 6th 4th 6th if there is one will be at aqua And uh, truly from the bottom of my heart, I thank the board and I thank the previous board For uh, that's constructive work on what I think is the people's business and I kind of tell myself every day that uh, why do I work here? and it's not Self-transmit, it's not any of that Because that's meaningless if we work here for the betterment of our community and our citizens and And it's so that's helpful to have such a board that is willing to dig into issues constructive discussions constructive work and I think in the long run our repairs are well-served and I know for a fact the city council has supported our efforts One of the people I Must say stood out in my mind when I was thinking about all this is mr. Dow And for the years he put up with all the hearings on the geysers project And the beatings he took and and some of them were really nasty And to be able to say thank you for your comments next was really difficult when you're under personal attack But for the good of the order he did it and You know those are the kinds of things that we've seen in this board And I've seen in the city council was the willingness to put the community as a whole first and Personal issues second and it's made this job made my job so much easier and so much More productive and I think we've We've had a good good time We can look back at some of the fun things that happened at the time not so funny But I think that the Goal of looking ahead and trying to Try to visionize where we're going and how we can best serve And reduce the costs of our projects to our right pairs And provide great service to them down the road is one of those things that is Hard to do As I always tell people you can it sounds a lot of things sound good when you say I'm fast It's when you go to carry out the work that it gets really tough and you run into the real problems and Dick I got to say that your Your efforts in supporting the staff and I know how hard it was and what a lot of people don't realize is You know dick is a certified expert in construction Court certified as an expert witness He showed up on our geysers project on numerous occasions to help us and and frankly the contractors with you know devising solutions to problems and You know giving us an idea of what is right and what is wrong and he did it for free Not many places would you ever see that kind of thing happen? So That's why I'm lucky and that's why I've loved being here is we've had a series of experts in all kinds of areas that have given their all And made this job really fun. And I think hopefully as we look back is the rule They always say about word generals and politicians and what have you History always will tell you what was done right and what was done wrong At the time there's always all kinds of battles and yelling But history always tells you geysers project. I think his history and tells you why In how hard we all worked all along the way aboard the city council and us and and frankly Part of it is our repairs have been willing to support us and You know between the two while this has been actually a great job And the most marvelous staff you could ever ask for And people that are willing to work together. I don't I don't sit and the breakup fights and Things like that among staff. It just doesn't happen And you know, I don't have to yell or holler or do anything. It just they work so well together. It's such a team But it's also it all comes from the board with you, believe it or not And it all comes from the city council with you believe it or not people Pay attention. They watch what you do and emulate it The board that's deliberate Respectful their employees are deliberate and respectful And that's something I've learned over the years. I've worked for boards that You couldn't but you can't even imagine how difficult it was and you'd go home every night. Just tear your hair out and When I came here people had served because they love their community We have different ideas. We have different thoughts different concerns different approaches But the one thing I've seen in common in all of santa rosa has been We want to make our community better. We want to make it a great place to live We want to make it sustainable. We want to have effective and cost controls We want our kids to have if we're not selling their future for our now And when I see the the work that's been done in this area, this is a wonderful Job day. I have no wonderful place to be With that, I thank you so very much for your for your notes and your thoughts and I You know, if I've told the boss I stand available. Certainly if there's information needed if there's Somebody to bounce problems off of I'll be one that's certainly here to do that With that, thank you. Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry for the long run I think I thank from all of the smiles. Thank you. Thank you again for all that you've done for this community and the sub regional system That brings us to the conclusion of this meeting and since I took your wednesday away this week Board secretary Perez says there's nothing for the december 6th meeting and the cancellation meeting notice will be going out So enjoy Your afternoon off next thursday, okay Thanks