Can you give him a bigger round of applause? Thank you. You know, I'm not doing my keynote because you want to keep to our time and also get to utilize Mr. Tyagarajan's presence to the maximum. This is the 24th year of Exchange for Media. This is the 21st year of Pitch. We've been doing the Pitch CMO Summit for 18 years. This used to be called the Pitch brainstorm in the Indonesian days. And it's growing from strength to strength. Marketing is business and business is marketing. Brands are the core of connecting with consumers. And our theme today is customer centricity. What are we doing to be able to be customer centric? What are we doing to be able to endear ourselves as brands to our consumers to our customers? And we couldn't have had a better person than Mr. Tyagarajan to be able to do this conversation. Today, the brands or businesses, I shouldn't be calling them businesses, but institutions that are connecting with their TGs, I would say politicians are among the top most. They know how to set the narratives. They know how to be experiential with their audiences. They know how to look at data. And that's what makes them customer centric. Also, will we be able to be learned from political parties, politicians, leaders? We can learn from anyone. Also, what is happening is the aspirations in India are growing. But does it really mean that the way brands engage with the current audiences, current TG, and prospective audience has seen some change using technology? Also, what is happening in the macro environment? So let me start by asking Mr. Tyagarajan to make his opening comments and then I'll ask him questions. Mr. Tyagarajan, what's changed in the last summer? This is peak season for you. This is festival time for you. You're in the air conditioning business. And because of the way you interact with all the industries, all the sectors, there are also customers who have an understanding of what's happening at a macro level. So give us some macros which are currently in the play as we speak. Good morning, Dr. Bhattra. Good morning, everyone. First of all, thank you for inviting me. Congratulations to Exchange for Media Group. And congratulations also on the occasion of the latest pitch Madison report. It has kept its place. There is no single document where you can get everything about ADEX. And in a very bold manner also forecasting what it is and to be reviewing it at the end of the year. So, compliments to Madison team, compliments to your team.  No, there are many bright minds here throughout the day. You will see and I won't be there in the evening and I know how hot it becomes in the evening. The big change in the marketplace, I think is not only for blue stuff, many others is the growth is driven by aspirational middle class. There are reports that premium products are gaining traction, that is in a small percentage, the base of that is small and you are seeing that. But otherwise I think the future is going to be driven by middle class. Future growth is going to come from tier 3, 4, 5. Bottom of the pyramid. That's right. I think India is a very large market and very complex market. You can't have one single strategy to drive. And according to me, marketing a product, even in the United States, may be a simpler one compared with marketing in India. It may be expensive there but it requires a different market. It's a different marketing mix and I think much, we grew with the concept of four piece of marketing. I think there must be a correction. You can't quarrel with Philip Kotler for that but I think D comes in four piece plus a D. Even in P, I have something else which I will tell you. That also has undergone a change in terms of distribution. India's data. Correct. Absolutely. I think it is driven by that. And Mr. Thakraj, when we were preparing for the session, you were telling Satya Prabhakar, I don't know where is Satya, that you know Satya is there. He is the founder of Suleika. He is now doing a new marketing services company. You talked about how a store in a certain location is very different than a store, a retail store for your business or someone's business. And you need to understand the customer in that particular store. So a customer in a store in Hyderabad is different than a customer in a store in Meerut. And you were saying that's where the data comes into play. Give us a story from your own business where you've seen this happening. Yeah. So I should not be mistaken that I am sounding arrogant or so. My complaint has been that the marketeers are predominantly located in or the CMOs are located in Mumbai or Delhi. And most of them, I don't think they are traveling to the smaller markets, Tyre 3, 4, 5 towns. I think the world has dramatically changed. Like in Bluestar, so or Daikin, you can check with the LG, 65% of the sale is coming from Tyre 3, 4, 5 markets. And there are big changes. Like more than 50% of the air conditioners are bought through consumer finance. And more than 90% are fast-time buyers and who are buying entry-level products. And I think we need much more data and much more connect. So this is one part of it, understanding that consumer. And this is an exciting period, especially for air conditioning companies. And so will be certain FMCG products like ice creams, for example, that we deal with ice cream companies. They are excited about the summer season. They are preparing for, and in their case with the elections, ice cream consumption also will be high. Cold drinks, ice cream. Ice cream, cold drinks, one more thing. Correct. And ice cream indirectly benefits us. That's our context. Now, in this exciting period, I call it like a Diwali for cooling companies or Diwali for ice cream companies.  And people go on vacation holidays to different places. Some summer related big movies also get released, both in connected TV and in Bollywood and other regions. IPL, election, many things are happening.  That's why when it is World Cup, all teams, even Afghanistan will raise their level. So here you can see, all the brands will raise their level in terms of advertising, in terms of new products, in terms of distribution. And in terms of communication, fresh communication for the season. Quite rightly. And in that intense competitive environment, you have to play. So if Virat is preparing for, blue star is preparing for the battle and Daikin is here, Daikin will prepare for LG will prepare for all. Now, here it is not only communication. It is about the relationship and the customer centricity as a subject comes from what that I should know what the customer needs. And we have flopped many times with the products and features which the customer was not expecting at all, you build it. And that need from those markets will have to come through extensive research. I am not very sure that the spendings on research is good enough by the industry at all. You are doing some focus group discussions and all that. You need to be much more micro in that. So the micro marketing is very important. And equally important is the fact that the relationship relationship with even your channel partners and you should be knowing each one of them. And in including the data that comes like what I was telling there is I should be able to track in Musafarnagar in a particular showroom. What is that sale and what is my share out of that? Or some Anarkudi in Tamil Nadu or Belgam somewhere all places. I should be able to track it real time. That data is important today. I do not think that just by advertising in some IPL I am going to get my sale going. And we know the others of the last year in the same submit we discussed the ad expense itself what percentage is being spent on creating brands and how much is for tactical or performance marketing. There is a big skew that you look at the ads how many are and how many new brands have got created. They are reaping out of something that has been created long ago. Mr. Thakurin at this point let me ask you if your customer centric you know your data, you know your consumer, you know the micro trains. Do you think being customer centric in a price conscious market because whether it's air conditioning whether it's any product category the Indian consumer especially at the entry level and in you know non metro is very price sensitive. Do you think being customer centric can get more money from an Indian consumer? Can you charge more? Can you increase your margins? Or that doesn't happen. There are two benefits. If I am customer centric I know what price he is expecting. So therefore you are able to develop a product at that particular price point and depending on the region today depending on the customer segment your business case for developing a product you need the data. So if you are only customer centric you will know at what price point I am supposed to be developing a product what feature I am supposed to be. Like for example I will tell you in a deep freezer. I am sorry for bringing in blue star. The customer attaches value for number of things. Aesthetics of chess freezer, baskets inside, cooling efficiency. If the power goes how long the ice cream will not melt. There is a cast wheel for movement of that particular one. There is handle. Number of things are there. Now in a data science you will try to understand what is the value he is attaching for what. Now we used to be thinking that the aesthetics is very important. We used to be spending a lot of money on that aspect but forget about the reliability of those wheels which has to last for him for five years. Actually he expects you to put more money and make that wheel much more robust or he is worried about the handle because every day some 200 times he is opening and closing. That led to you design a deep freezer without a handle in the inside it is inbuilt there as a part of the lid. So this inside will come only by being customer centric. You have to understand he has got a cone inside he has got a brick he has got a cup and what are those sizes that are coming for various ice cream brands. Therefore how I have to design the basket that is a customer inside comes through customer centricity. Now the problem is that when see Indian market is now it is driven by scale and an unimagined scale like huge numbers are happening to it is happening due with the digital. So there is a smart aspect it is happening with the sustainability angle in this complex world you need to collect massive amount of data. So if you have now got at what price point he wants now I know his mind then I will be able to price it in such a manner to make more profits otherwise I will be losing money. Beautiful. Now one of the points you said you know FMCG companies consumer durable companies a lot of CMOs started in sales. I went to a business school 30 years back a lot of my batch much started in sales and some have become CEOs some of them are entrepreneurs. You made this point that CMOs don't spend enough time in market especially they may have spent it in their initial years but as they go up the ladder and they become you know CXO CMOs the amount of time they spend in terms of observing it first and making market visits going to you know hinterland so to say going to the some of the cities you mentioned do you think a combination of looking at the data of sales point of sales looking at category data and also these visits a combination of it can lead to consumer insights which will lead to new products can lead to new features can lead to new pricing can lead to new way of communicating do you think that is the need of the hour. Entirely agree with you but equally I'm saying I should not generalize say say for example Suresh Narayan he spends a lot of time in there will be many exceptions there where even CEO spend time there the the the importance of spending time that is that is one part of it if you are spending time what is that you are able to grasp how that data can be collated and 360 degree view of the market now that can come that can come only through a data sign there is Swaminathan here is a master I should not be lecturing many of them will be here so the the thing is it is increasingly clear that you need real-time data on consumer insights across now you look at the other thing which has changed that's what I was telling Girish the you know some point of time YouTube became a search engine like you can go to Google and do that you can go to YouTube and do that equally it is competing in that space now e-commerce is invariably used to in any any purchase e-commerce people are going and searching and understanding that and before coming to it is a very important element now you should be you should be you a particular category may not sell significantly in e-commerce but still e-commerce is important and we don't know what when DC search online by offline so at least comparison of the features price happens online so it's very important Philip Kotlin model will not include this okay I am he's a guru but still what I'm saying is it has changed since then and so the whatever you get and how do you that physically it is impossible in a huge country like this you can't be spending every day in the market but it is going to come through a data warehouse and analytics and artificial intelligence it is here and if you miss the bus you're going to miss the market share now we are in the IPL season we are in the election season there are two biggest events that can happen in any year and they're both happening in the next two months you talk in your opening comments about the fact that you know one has to be smart and intelligent and differentiate it in the way you spend your marketing money you reach his hair your new commercial we'll see that but do you think IPL is overpriced with the amount of I mean it is out of reach for some people and with the two brands coming together I'm not taking the name of the brands so that nobody can legally sue me well not that I'm worried I have lots of loyal friends the prices will only go up because if they have to recover their money in the next five years all the marketers in this room will have to pay two three times whether there is ROI or not that's a separate question okay so do you think it's smart to spend I know you have a new commercial for you it's summertime you say it's early time so to say but do you think IPL is becoming out of the reach of a lot of brands the pricing is really really out of whack in my view I don't think so dr. what I I think it'll it'll double within another three years same IPL if you compare with international standards say India is still cheaper in terms of marketing cost that's that's not the real issue the issue is connected with the fragmentation of IPL or the reach through IPL there is standard definition high definition connected to digital and what do you do with this you cannot address this country with just one and we do some calculations and take a bit so therefore I am not so much worried about the cost and I am certain this cost will go up of course it will it'll it'll double and but but the fragmentation again find the data science there has improved so much of data is available in order to measure and and understand where you have to put your money the the concern I will have will be our assumption that all are sitting and watching your ad fully I am not very sure the attention span of today's consumer how do you capture under you unless until you have got some 2000 crores to be going on bombarding it okay now there are many CMOs in the room some I know some I have met for the first time business leaders you know what is your advice to CMOs if they want to become CEOs the CMO tenure used to be 60 months couple of years back it came down to 48 months now the average CMO tenure is between 36 to 38 months depending on whatever data you want to look at so how do you think CMOs can rise to the role of a CEO what are your what is your advice to them beyond traveling to mayra 10 was up for Naga in in in all forums I keep saying that one will have to continuous continue to learn and upgrade that is first part of it but most importantly I think it is the it is the connect with the customer it it it links back to the customer centricity the successful CEOs are the ones who are connected more to the customers at the end of the day you may think they are a blue-eyed boy of somebody and connected well to the board or the chairman I think eventually the bottom line will be who is connected to the customer and in India that's other point that I mentioned that even with the channels I don't think your clinical relationship is going it is very important that much beyond transaction clinical relationship you have to develop that relationship with the channel partners with the ecosystem yeah my last question before I bring in the audience for two three questions is let me take the example of drones let me take the example of space tech the government is not a policy creator but it also a market maker for example the government said you make drones we'll buy 8000 crores of drones during corona when the vaccines came the government roped players like yours and other players to be able to build the supply chain from a you know refrigeration so that the vaccines are in the right form when they reach the end use so how do you think the government can play the role of a market maker over the next few months it's pending in infrastructure that's one way to be a market maker look at the amount of infrastructure projects though there's also a theory whenever there are elections more infrastructure projects coming I leave why what I'm trying to say to everyone's imagination and I'm sure so the the perception of government will have to change much more it is changing it has to look more than 3.5 lakh crore of transaction in the gem portal it will be a very leading digital commerce e-commerce platform it has it is breaking record every month the number of transactions that are taking place but still it is not seen as Amazon Flipkart and all nowhere near the transactions that are happening there but but the government has played I can tell you from the point of view of the air conditioning industry PLI one can say there were criticisms that you are going and industry has to fund for themselves why are you going and giving some kind of funding like this which is viability gap or something like this but the government through DPIT made the Indian air conditioning industry realized this that you are all importing more than 50 percent from China India is the fastest growing market with India's penetration at some seven eight percent it is going to grow by 2040 to 45 most probably definitely by 2047 India will overtake China in terms of market size if that is so why you should not think big so I think what they taught us was to think big that you can be a global player in air conditioning industry and that change is is I take it as a market maker absolutely it was not thought about by the industry industry was still because you know the margin you see also and then India the profit margins are lower compared with the many international markets cost of capital is high you can somebody's happening rain is happening which I call it like a Satya Jitre movie we were going through this tragedy all along to tell us that look you should come out of this you can be quite often very aggressively that is a big benefit like a market maker so today Indian industry can say proudly that we can make products equivalent to that of anyone else in the world we can supply products to Europe and US and we can lead the sustainability movement global warming or anything thank you you're absolutely right one thing I've seen because of the policies of this government because of the successes of Indian entrepreneur the ambition of an Indian entrepreneur at every scale whether the first time you know midsize entrepreneur to an existing large enterprise the ambition of the Internet entrepreneur in the last three four years has become bigger and bigger and he or she is trying to make a mark globally please give Mr. Tagarajan a big round of applause and we can take one or two questions you can think of your questions but I want to ask my team to play the blue star AV and I'll get out of the way so that I can also watch it because I'm not watching it and you all can watch it and we can have one or two questions for Mr. Tagarajan can we get the blue star AV plate? Garmi myself Garmi himself himself myself Virat himself blue star heavy duty blue star heavy duty is Bhayankar Garmi's holiday and fast cooling inverter AC now Garmi's holiday how did you like it? I love it who are you? Mr. and Mrs. Garmi we are Garmi's holiday we will celebrate here sit down will you have some cold? why not blue star fast cooling inverter AC now Garmi's holiday well done Girish and Mr. Tagarajan we have another 3-4 minutes before we let Mr. Tagarajan go any questions for Mr. Tagarajan good morning sir I just met you I'm from your competition can you hear me now sir come closer to you please my question is on a larger level since there is a lot of innovation artificial intelligence things happening and a lot of technology changing a lot of industries so do you see the disruption in terms of new players or technology changing the air conditioning industries in next couple of years? most certainly I suppose and if you are talking about within the product I think first to begin with from the commercial spaces in the residential still Indian market will look for entry level products I don't think they can afford that like we have found when you say it is Wi-Fi we don't have homes which keep the Wi-Fi on 24 hours right when we leave we may switch off and come so I don't think residential but commercial space definitely is okay but in terms of artificial intelligence the kind of consumer personalization any technology company coming and really taking the consumers already I see quite a few experts here in marketing sales distribution many models are already implemented I think FMCG has taken a lead some consumer durables would have done it air conditioning industry is generally slow I think we have to move faster thank you


Chris, you played Iowa State. Tyrese Halberton was there.  Did you see that comment or did you know he was going to be one of the best? Yeah, I remember going on my visits and my coaches, my football coaches knew I love basketball. So they would take me to some of the practices and let me shoot around with the guys. And George Nieng and Tyrese were the first two guys I met. So meeting them and then I ended up graduating graduate in high school early. So Tyrese's freshman year was also a little bit of my freshman year. And so we always had tutoring with them in the morning and stuff. So me and him had a really good relationship.


at we all need to get to grips with how that really makes a dramatic difference. It was an inquiry into preventative spend, and it was in 2011, and it was basically about your early intervention programme. I believe that Ms McKenna might have been a witness. We can come back to that, because that is a trickier question. I think that it is important that we manage to evidence these things. Sorry, Mr Riley. I am puzzled as to where you pulled that out, convener. I think that it is just in terms of the early intervention aspects and gathering up the evidence to ensure that the resource that is going in is getting the outcome that we require, and that we are actually evidencing that as well. Back to that point about how we influence policy. There needs to be, I certainly favour, a debate in Scotland around education and where we go. The importance or not of early intervention and the evidence for that. I am interested in the educational point of view on how perhaps the director also sees that in terms of how we use evidence, what have we got there, what else do we need. Some people say that, for example, if you are going to put a major investment into early years, it will be 10, 15 years before you will be able to actually prove that that word. Others say that that is not the case. You should be able to say that. I would be interested in that point of view. My final question as well would be, again, in that area, looking at how we go forward in terms of education, training and skills. In terms of employment, it just seems to me that education, training and skills are absolutely key. However, the links with vocational versus academic, the links with colleges and at what early stage. I will just briefly say that, by taking my own constituency, we have the aircraft carriers being pulled together, the fossil parts that have been built in Glasgow. What I am finding with those employers is that they are recruiting all over Europe because they cannot recruit the skilled labour in the local area. It is again, how do we measure what the links are with businesses? How much is education actually working with businesses to ensure that kids are able to get the qualifications that allow them to then develop the skills and get the skills? How do we use all this information that is supposed to try and, as a policy maker, look at how to be able to direct future priority and future spend? Shall we go to the educational professionals first and then the politicians, Ms Shaw? I will come back to the school leaver destinations and the links to employers. I think that that is an area that we can strengthen in East Rhenfisher. In terms of the early intervention and being able to measure the impact of that, I think that Councillor Curran is right to point out the work of the early years collaborative. The fact that youngsters and their progress with developmental milestones is going to be measured at the 27 to 30 month assessment. Again, in the entry to primary school and again in primary 4, there are opportunities to gather evidence to show the impact of that early intervention. The early intervention is more about working with families. I know that, in Glasgow, they are working very hard on it, as we are in East Rhenfisher, to make sure that we make that difference as early a stage as we can. With youngsters, before they reach nursery age, they become three and identifying and working with our colleagues in East Rhenfisher's CHCP to make sure that we identify them. There is a way to go to make sure that those measures that we will gather are robust. I am not sure that we have a coherent set of assessments that is consistent across the country. Certainly, even within East Rhenfisher, it is not consistent, but we will be able to see results from that. We gathered a baseline last year in line with the national target, and we will see some impact of that this year, because of the family-friendly approaches that we have taken in our pre-5 centres. I am busy racking my brains on the 2011 to the Parliament a few times. I think that it was three years ago and we have moved forward. I think that, as Ms Shaw says, the evidence to support preventative spend, as Mr Rowley was saying, is long-term, and there still is a lack. I do not think that Glasgow is any different from anywhere else about that coherent set of indicators that would allow you to be able to say, am I making a difference? Our work is very much focused with third sector and families and nurseries, and we work very closely with our health colleagues, and it is across the boundaries. There is shared learning because it is NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. I know that East Rhenfrewshire is also working along the same lines in terms of looking at family centres and the support that we provide there. It has been very much focused, in my view, in Glasgow because of the scale of the challenge that we face, is that we work very much with third sector and looking to see where we can maximise the support from the third sector, which I believe are much better placed than the statutory services, to make an impact in local communities. It is more than just what happens in a nursery, it is beyond the doors of the nursery. The nursery can be a catalyst and can pull partners together, but if we are going to impact systemic long-term change, we need to look at how our communities function and how they are working as families and how we can support those families. Although there is no coherent agreement, we have been undertaking in the past three years a significant amount of research and partnership with the Centre for Population Health, looking at longitudinal evidence of what differences our interventions are making. One of the things that we started as long ago as 2011 was also stretching the age range from the early years collaborative, which, when it started, was very focused at under fives. We always said from the outset in Glasgow that we needed to keep it a zero to eight because our children continue to experience difficulties. Families take time to build their capacity. In terms of policy making, one of the challenges that we have faced in the city with our college partners is being able to build the resilience of families, build their confidence, help them with their literacy levels, signpost them on to employment and further training, but being unable to get them to access college places because the funding became focused on 18 to 24 and some of our vulnerable parents were 25 plus. That has been particularly challenging. I sit on the board for Glasgow region and it is an area that we are looking at to see how we can assist with that. I do not know whether you want me to go on to the business partnerships that Mr Rowley mentioned. Vocational education is clearly a critical area for us and we have been making slow, steady progress in terms of our positive destinations. It has been hard fought gains and we are making little steps every year to improve and to close the gap on the national picture. We have been particularly focusing on raising expectations and aspirations and so our biggest gains have been around higher education, which has been delivered in both colleges and in universities and up at this year. In 2013, we increased by 2.5 per cent when nationally it dropped by 0.6, which is particularly proud of that. We recognise that our business partnerships are absolutely critical. As an education service, we have spent a lot of time getting young people ready for businesses, looking at employability skills and lots of programmes. I think that what we have not done well is getting businesses ready for young people. Businesses, particularly small and medium enterprises, are the biggest range in Scotland of working with them because it is a big, big decision for a small business to take on a young person and for them to understand and to be able to respond to that young person's needs. This year's challenge for us is working in partnership with the Chamber of Commerce in the city to look at how we can work better with our small and medium-sized businesses, but to look at the senior phase programmes to see whether we can build better pathways, perhaps not using traditional attainment measures such as hires but looking at national certificate pathways that would be delivered between schools, colleges and businesses so that young people start to get business experience from a younger age, perhaps maybe a day a week, and moving forward. I am aware that we are now straying into various realms of education policy, and I do not want to upset the education committee in that regard. In terms of the benchmarking aspects, if we could try and stick to that aspect in the main, and if we could temper the questions to that. I think that the point is that the benchmarking would have to sit alongside the Wood commission in terms of developing Scotland's young workforce. Obviously, the points that Mr Rowley made in terms of that are where we very much have to sit, because the work that Mr McKinnon has done in terms of business partnerships but also the relationship with the college sector is important. I suppose that the critical issue for me is that we sent up to a single outcome agreement as a council. The benchmarking is based on a council perspective with partners, the colleges and universities are in a different environment and a different committee in terms of their image. It is an important way for us to look at it in terms of answering the specific points around how we make the young people ready for the job market that is out there, but also how we measure it against our colleagues in our parts of the country. I am impressed that you got back there and did it very well indeed. As far as vocational education is concerned, we have certainly welcomed what the Wood commission recommendations were. We certainly need to link more with business. As far as early years and early intervention are concerned, Mr McKinnon covered it very well. We need to get to the communities, work with families and ask what they need of us and not impose what we think they need, so that it is all about communication. On the positive destination, what do you mean by positive destinations? It surely depends on where you are. As Mr Rowley mentioned, in the fight they had the look for engineers and shipbuilders, you focused a lot on positive destinations, particularly Ms McKinnon and the rates from Glasgow schools. What exactly do you mean by positive destinations, directing pupils? Are you directing them? Are you giving them vocational guidance? How do you monitor it? Can we temper that slightly and say how do we benchmark? Benchmark, that is what I really meant. Positive destinations are youngsters who are going on to schools to hire further education employment or training. Those are the measurements that are shared. In terms of the work of Skills Development Scotland, that is published on an annual basis. That information is shared again through the family groups that we have been working on in the pilot dawn from the LGBTF with positive destinations or the school leaver destination return. In my own view, I think that that is the fairest measure of a school. In relation to where it comes from, you can get lots of schools in Glasgow, for instance, outperforming many schools in East Renfrewshire in terms of youngsters going on to positive destinations. They will not be going on to the same destinations. We undoubtedly have a large cohort of our youngsters who go on to higher education, but as long as youngsters are going to the correct destination, that destination is sustained. The measure that is followed up in March is often a better measure of how successful we have been in getting those youngsters into or on to the right pathway. Sharing information through that family group that we are already working with and really sharing best practice and looking behind the actual statistics that are published is the way forward in making sure that we seek and indeed secure improvement. A set of examples for your convener would be the number of pupils who gain level 5 or level 6 qualifications. You look at East Renfrewshire statistics, for example, and they would appear to be streaks ahead and rightly so in terms of the focus on that. In terms of what we are doing, we want to see ourselves measurably improving in terms of what has been done against other comparisons, but that specific figure is vital and important for us to show that we have lifted the expectation. Those are two important benchmarks, but the positive destination is to go back to Mr Buchanan's point. We need to see more of our young people seeing higher education and further education as where they would expect to be. That is something that we are very much focused on. As long as we can see that particular improvement over the past year, when we had a growth in young people's higher education, when there was a slight dip in the Scottish figure, that is a warm feeling across Glasgow in terms of all the schools seeing that they have made a dramatic difference. Do you monitor after they have left school? Do you benchmark after they have left school? Is it just when they leave school? Skills Development Scotland contacted me a year after to ensure that the destination remains the same, but we can certainly look at more work on that. That is why it is important that the bigger picture through the whole process of education is vital in terms of the benchmarking and being part of that picture. Good afternoon. I am trying to drill down into the benchmarking framework, particularly for Glasgow and there may be issues in terms of East Wrenfrewshire, but I know that in the area that I live in, in part of the constituency that I represent, there are approximately 450 secondary school pupils that are bussed in from East End to Glasgow every day into Coalbridge to a high school there. How do those attainment levels, achievement levels and positive destinations get measured in relation to the benchmarking framework? They are not being educated by Glasgow City Council but by North Lanarkshire Council. How do those figures and pupils get measured in relation to particularly Glasgow City Council benchmark figures because they are not being educated in Glasgow? They are part of North Lanarkshire Council's secondary school system. The young people who travel into the schools in Coalbridge are attending there by right because their primary schools are associated with that secondary school in the same way that in West and Bartonshire there is a primary school that sits in Glasgow that historically is associated. We had the same situation until recently that East Wrenfrewshire had to change because of the pressures on the building that they had with their house building growth down at the south-west of the city. Although the children are educated at primary level in Glasgow, the responsibility is part of North Lanarkshire for the secondary school system. However, we work closely with North Lanarkshire and we would not consider removing them or seeing them as Glasgow City Council children. I think that Ms McKenna has picked me up wrongly in terms of what I am trying to get in terms of drilling down into the benchmarking framework to find out how those children, what benchmark framework do they get measured in North Lanarkshire's benchmark framework. Bear with me, Ms McKenna, because some of those children are coming from the most deprived areas in Glasgow and therefore some of the figures that are being produced for Glasgow in terms of the framework may be being skewed because they are not accurately measuring residents of Glasgow and children that live in Glasgow who are being educated in a neighbouring authority. I am just trying to find out how, is there any way that we can address that issue to ensure that the adequate resources and the adequate measuring, because what you have said in terms of attainment, achievement and positive destination, there are potentially 450 children who live in Glasgow and those measurements are being placed against or set aside another authority rather than being set aside at Glasgow City Council. It is whether or not we are adequately measuring that in a way that takes full account of the potential long-term problems. I am not talking about just in education, I am talking about beyond education years for Glasgow City in terms of the measurements that are coming out of the benchmarking framework. Ms McKenna? I suppose that some Glasgow children use places, some parents use placing requests to go into different authorities all over and I suppose that the challenge would be as to how you unpick that then because a number of our children are mobile, aren't they, you know, families choose to go to different schools and that is a challenge. I am not sure, I have to confess that I haven't thought about it in those terms and I am not sure how you would unpick or unpack those statistics. I mean, we have to work in partnership to have the assurance that the young people are getting the best possible opportunity and certainly our psychological services work closely with North Lanarkshire for any young person transferring, but I am, I have to say, I am struggling in terms of how to think about that in terms of the benchmarking tool. I notice that others want to come in. I think, in some regards, you know, from a tracking point of view where you have kids who have gone to primary school in one local authority area and then suddenly go into another local authority area, that skews the yearly tracking in some regards, I am sure, if kids are coming from more deprived areas with traditionally lower levels of attainment. It may well skew in some areas the other way and show that folks are doing better in secondary because it may well be that kids from affluent areas are going to poorer secondaries. Ms Shaw? Thank you, convener, that the LGBTF is six out of kilter. I think it would be fair to say in this aspect because we would always use information to help our schools to improve as they would in Glasgow. It is more difficult to do this or to use that as a measure of an authority that is educating a child or is not educating a child. I think that is what Maureen is suggesting. I think that there is opportunity for the LGBTF to be brought into line with the other measures that we have in terms of the attainment of youngsters who attend schools as opposed to where they reside. We would always say that we take responsibility for any children that are in our school, regardless of where they stay. They are East Renfrewshire pupils and we teach them and hope that they learn and achieve in the same way as we would for any of our other children who live in East Renfrewshire. It is a very important question that Mr Wilson has raised. I suppose that there are two aspects to it. One is the catchment area, where you already can plan for the young people the anticipation that they go to that school. Of course they can still have parental choice around denominational, non-denominational, and they can have parental choice around place and request outwith the catchment area. I think that every year in Glasgow we have around 3,000 applications for placing requests into primary 1 and S1. That is almost entirely within Glasgow in terms of that number, but it means that it gets something that is quite difficult to plan, so you need to know the young people very well. That is where the benchmark is important at a higher level, but drawing it down is really significant. The other important point from a Glasgow perspective, and it is the same in other cities, particularly across Scotland, is the number of young people who are coming to the city for the first time from outwith Scotland. We have about 15 to 20 per cent of young people who have English as an additional language, but 15 per cent from a black and minority ethnic background. Every year in Glasgow now we have seen 2,000 new pupils presenting at school with a range of language needs. So how do you measure that in terms of the benchmarking and have a fair assessment in terms of the needs that they have to have met in the school? It is easy to do that, but understanding a wider picture is very significant. It is a really important question about understanding who your community is that you are serving. In a Scottish context, it is easier, but you are right that we need to have a better, clearer picture in terms of explaining who is where and how does that impact on the delivery of that service? In your paper that you submitted, you have highlighted a very interesting point in all paraphrase that it is important that Glasgow continues to actively benchmark against other suitable authorities within the wider national and UK context. Some of the panel members that I have been in this morning have asked them about their UK connections. Can I ask what Glasgow's is? We look at Manchester and London because of the scale and the numbers. As Councillor Curran said, 42 per cent of our children live in the 10 per cent most deprived postcodes, which is about 27,000 children and young people. There is not another authority that is close to that in terms of percentage and scale, so it is important that we keep that outward look. We linked with Manchester for a bit of work, particularly around the games and looking at synergies between the two councils. More recently, I have been looking very closely at some of the London challenge work and the impact that that initiative had in raising young people's attainment and their aspirations, given the level of deprivation that was associated there. It is not a two-way process. Yesterday, we had a headteacher from a London school up to look at the dramatic improvements that we have seen in terms of improving attendance at school and reducing the level of exclusion. That is fundamentally the most important thing to do if you want to raise attainment to ensure that the young person is at school and is able to continue at school. We have certainly got a very good understanding and a close partnership, particularly in terms of London and Manchester, because of the challenge work that was conducted by the UK Government in earlier years. That is similar to our raising attainment agenda that we share with the Scottish Government and other colleagues across Scotland. A lot of resources went into that, and we know that resource is not there. That is an important aspect in terms of measuring the relationship that we have with colleagues elsewhere in the islands. Do you look at any other European or world cities that are comparable to Glasgow? Yes, so obviously the PISA results come out on a basis that is measured nationally. What does that mean for us in terms of the context in Glasgow? Obviously, the Commonwealth Games has been a fantastic opportunity for us to have international education as a big focus in our schools. Around the Commonwealth family of nations, there is a partnership with UNICEF around children's rights. We have got some very good developing work that is going on. We are certainly looking at work that is going on, for example, in the Canadian cities, where they have a different approach to earlier years and perhaps has more focus on four-year-old full-time places rather than two-year-old and three-year-old places. We are developing a lot of relationships, certainly outwith the Scottish picture, but the benchmarking is our bread and butter, because that is how we will be measured and assessed in our communities. The next question was about how that has impacted in the budget settlement, but you have just answered and given a fine example of that. You heard me ask the others, I am sure, about the fact that everybody thought that there would be pelters when the framework came into play. Some folk were talking about the possible press headlines. That has not happened because your authorities are managing that particularly well and giving explanations for the differences that exist. I think that a number of journalists, although they like the headlines, recognise that benchmarking is very important and that the context of our local authority is particularly critical and that we take the approach that statistics and benchmarking do not provide answers, but all they do is raise questions that allow as many people as possible to engage and that it is that dialogue that brings about the improvements, not the benchmarking in itself. A Glasgow perspective on benchmarking is that there is a recognition that deprivation is a significant factor in determining the outcomes for all the young people, certainly from own perspective, a feel that if you have a political leadership and direction that sees this as important, if you have a professional commitment, particularly from the staff from your schools, and you have an openness and confidence around being able to explain why you are in a particular place, but also to explain why you are not perhaps what people would anticipate to be for good or bad reason, then that sharing of the information is obviously good in terms of being accountable to all the people who we represent. I think that because we have really been doing this from the inception, as I said earlier, in the Strangfordshire Council, it is something that we are comfortable with, we are comfortable with comparison. It is something that elected members really appreciate and parents can see the information that is out there, they can see exactly where we are going in the authority, and if they do not like it, they would certainly let us know. It is so easy to do it when you are right at the top of the tree, and so will he aspect. Michelle? I would think that I have got anything further to ask from what my convener has said. Well, thank you very much for your evidence today. I suspend for just a brief moment to allow the witnesses to leave. We can now move on to agenda item 3, which is to consider the petition PE1469 by Aileen Jackson, which calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to consider a change in planning regulations to enable an increase in the current neighbour notification distance of 20 metres in relation to wind turbine planning applications. As members will recall, we have taken evidence from this petition, as part of our scrutiny of the third national planning framework. We have a paper before us today that sets out the actions that we have taken on this petition since it was referred to us in December last year. During our evidence taken on the petition, the Scottish Government indicated that it did not think that it necessary to change the current neighbour notification distance, but Minister Mackay informed us that the Government would look at issuing new best practice guidance on the notification system of wind farm applications. We have now received correspondence from the Scottish Government confirming that and setting out a timetable for the development, consultation and publication of such guidance. That is attached to the paper that we have before us. Can I ask members to look at the paper and see if they have any comments on the issue or the petition? In which case, can we agree to write to the Scottish Government acknowledging the actions taken on PE1469 and drawing up the aforementioned guidance? Can we request that the Government ensures that the petitioner is specifically consulted on the proposed draft guidance and that any views that she expresses are taken into account by the Government before it finalises such guidance? Can we ask that a copy of the finalised guidance be provided directly to the petitioner and that we be notified of that by the Government when the guidance is published in spring 2015? Can we request that the Government ensures that the finalised guidance is properly publicised and brought to the attention of all planning authorities in Scotland as well as all those making applications for the development of onshore wind farms and any other relevant persons or organisations whom the Scottish Government considers appropriate to notify? In light of the Government's decision to issue guidance on neighbour notifications as a result of PE1469, there would appear to be no further reasonable action that we can take in relation to the petition. Therefore, are we agreed to close petition PE1469 with immediate effect and ask the clerks to write to the petitioner and the Public Petitions Committee to notify them of that decision? Before we finish, I would like to take this moment to thank the petitioner, Ms Aileen Jackson, on the record for her petition. I feel that this is an excellent example of where an individual using the Parliament's petition system can affect meaningful change in important areas of public policy such as the planning system. I would also like to thank the Public Petitions Committee for the work that it undertook in this petition before it was referred to us. As agreed, we can now move into private session.


Guess what? I remembered to turn the camera on today. Anyway, December 26th, I love this page and it's a Jimi Hendrix quote, but it's just so much true. Love it, love it, love it. And I hope it gives you some ideas of what you can do for a different kind of December daily with positive affirmations in mind. In this crazy time of COVID, we need to not avoid those tough conversations, but we also need to try to work through the darkness and find the light. And that's what this journal is all about. If you choose to do something inspired by this journal and my journey, I would love to see what you're doing. Please tag me in your posts on social media. You can private message me. You can post something in one of my two Facebook groups, links for all of my social media, Facebook groups, ways to support the free content here on YouTube and in said Facebook groups are all in the video description. Some are in the link tree list of links, so check it out. If you have a favorite content creator here on YouTube or over in the Facebook art groups, please think about supporting their free content. Check out their video descriptions for ways. If you can't find something, private message them and ask. But I know I very much appreciate the free content and they would too. Many of us are struggling at the moment like our many of you. So anyway, that being said, big hugs to all of you this weird December that we're having of 2020. Please be safe, be healthy, be creative. Please wear your mask and go out and do something nice for yourself because you deserve it. And I'll see you later. Bye guys.


when done right and when organized properly, we're absolute powerhouse. If not, and we sort of miss certain things and we don't take into consideration things like transition time, processing time, scheduling routines for rest and play and good things. Then it can be a bad thing and it can be really toxic for us and it can cause us a lot of anxiety, panic attacks, a lot of difficulty maintaining ourselves as far as eating and sleeping and drinking enough. So there's a lot of things good and bad on this side.