What's going on guys welcome back to the channel critical overload here. We're gonna be talking about scream 7 in this video here again today We're gonna try to make this as quick as possible because I'm hungry as hell So a few of you sent me a tweet related to a rumor about Neve Campbell and Melissa Barrera And these right circumstances that were brought up by Neve this past weekend Now there's also been some of you reading my tweets Wanting clarity on what I've heard and if it correlates to this rumor that's now gained over thousands of likes And I will say to answer that yes, it does correlate to what I've heard So I just wanted to clear the room if you were clear the air I will say this is a step in the right direction even if nothing comes from it I do find this to be a genuine step in the right direction Which could be true and just nothing comes from it and I will say I trust that is true Given where it's coming from and the track record that this person has had now I Do want to firstly start off with a quote They had a little more meat on it than what I saw from variety Neve Campbell told this to the Hollywood reporter at the same event on Saturday She said I know things are spinning at the moment I would imagine they are spinning at the top trying to figure out what they're going to do I would not be surprised to get a call But at the same time I made a strong statement a few years ago Which is I do not believe that the way I was treated would have happened if I had been a male and that I deserve a certain Thing for having carried this franchise for as long as I have we have to stand up for women in this business and know what we're worth Now pay attention there. We have to stand up for women that hasn't changed for me So if they were to come back to me it would have to be with a respectful offer that I felt was Felt was in keeping with what I bring to this franchise. Would I do it? There are millions of fans out there of this franchise these movies mean a lot to people They mean a lot to me. They mean a lot to Kevin Williamson. They meant a lot to West Craven They meant a lot to all of these cast members and we all would love to see this franchise continue I would hate to see it burn. So we'll see then here's a remix version of what she told Indie wire She said it's sad to me that they're struggling at the moment I would imagine that the people at the top are spinning a little bit trying to make the right decision Make the right decision. I think I would imagine people want to do the right thing I would hope I love this franchise. I love it for what's Craven I love it for all these people who've been involved and even the newer cast I Would hope it doesn't fall apart so We know Nev Campbell, of course is on spy glasses wish list as variety reported But it looks like some truth has come from beyond the mass post right before Christmas Because I have heard that Nev Campbell seems to be using spine glasses desperation To get a fair deal first and foremost of course for herself But also trying to use this as a pathway to get Melissa Barreira Back on good terms who spy glass have actually already met with her once again Thanks to Nev Campbell regarding how to make things right. Of course, this is all room Chances are the only way this will ever be confirmed is if we get a miraculous announcement about Nev Campbell and Melissa Barreira Starring in screen seven together after Barreira was initially fired Just because spy glass and Barreira have met again doesn't mean she'll do seven It could be something as simple as okay We'll come up with something for you to appear in the future and leave the door open for you to return to this franchise I personally think Melissa should tell them to shove off But again, she may have known about spy glasses beliefs and was still going to work with them until she was fired I brought that up. They weren't she wasn't the one who made a big deal about it Was spy glass So if both parties are being professional and reasonable Absolutely get her back on board and tell the dual story with Sam and Sydney I said in my previous video that Nev doesn't have to defend Melissa the way we think she should Publicly because nine times out of ten both of them know why they can't present themselves a certain way in public They know more about the situation than we do and there's definitely a reason for the silence that is upsetting so many These studios will indeed work themselves to the bone for a good public image and if you think otherwise You're just being foolish Melissa just took a photo with her screams Co-stars and the love between them all seems rather apparent despite the vision being created by strangers like us who do not know them Personally all I'm trying to get is that there are definitely ways that these studios can keep people silent Melissa knows about it her costars know about it So it's real easy for us to be on the outside looking in saying hey This person isn't standing up for so-and-so maybe there's a reason for that and the person you want them to actually be standing up for Knows why they're not speaking on it and they're not coming down on them. Just stuff to consider do not underestimate what these studios do so And yes, I will say the selfish right circumstances still for me are Going to still definitely be linked to spy glass relink relink machine or somehow selling the rights But that's just not reality and I don't care to be divorced from reality like some do Neve possibly using her position to possibly get Melissa back on their terms is quality behavior on her part Especially with some now dragging her online the post that I've seen about oh Neve Campbell is this that and the third You know people will shock you when you when you want to quickly label people these negative things and they turn around to do good deeds for you That tends to humble you I've been on that side of side of the stick or that side of the stick That tends to really humble you so I hope we get some positive news About this sooner rather than later But yes never a hundred percent using her position to possibly get Melissa back on good terms is quality behavior on her part I also don't know how any of these alleged meetings with Barrera went But again, they they allegedly met again spy glass and Melissa Barrera, but I'd imagine it must go well if you want Neve Back or they could just tell both ladies, you know to go eff yourself and dig themselves an even bigger hole We'll just have to see how this all works out Let me know what you guys think about this down in the comment section below if you have an array of course Make sure you go ahead and subscribe turn on post notifications so that you never miss a video in the description I'll have links on my social media accounts. I am on Facebook Twitter and Instagram You can message me there of course to let me know if there are any movies news or reviews You like me to cover in the future. I guess I will also say this While Melissa Barrera is continuing to stand her ground and speak up for what she believes in I will Recircle back to the topic I brought up of keep in mind These studios will work over time to keep people silent notice how she hasn't said anything herself directly about what spyglass did She's just said silence is not an option for me and she addressed those false allegations They put out against her when they labeled her anti-semitic and all that other stuff But she hasn't overly directly said anything about the firing just think about that She's she's also at the center of it and her herself has not spoken up the way people want these co-stars to speak up There's a reason for that, but I will see you guys in the next video You


First the contents, definition of tonicity, hypotonic solution, isotonic solution and hypotonic solutions. First the definition, so, tonicity is the relative concentration of solute particle dissolved in the solution with reference to the outer environment or the other compartment. Students, if we look at the tonicity and osmosis, if I compare it a little bit, in the tonicity, we basically talk about the solutes, we talk about solute concentration, whereas in osmosis, we usually take water concentration as a principle, where the water is more, the water will come from there, where it is present in a low amount. So the definition of tonicity is that where the tonicity is basically solute, it is a matter which deals the concentration of solute between two compartments. In two compartments, when we will discuss solute concentration, then this will be the tonicity. Where the tonicity is more, it means that there is more solute concentration there, and where the tonicity is less, it means that there will be less solute concentration there. Now, there are three types of tonic conditions that exist in this tonicity. The first one is the hypotonic solutions, the second is the isotonic solutions, and the third one are the hypotonic solutions. Hypotonic. The word hyper means to increase, to increase. So hypotonic solutions are such solutions where solute concentration is more than a special level. If we suppose that a cell is in a hypotonic environment, then its simple means that the solution in a cell is more than a solute concentration, and there is less solute concentration in a cell. Now, where the solute concentration is more, the water molecules will move in the same way. If a cell is in a hypotonic environment, then since it is in a hypotonic environment, the solute concentration is more, then the water molecules will come out of the cell. So the water molecules will come out from the cell. Now, when the water molecules will come out of the cell, the cell will shrink. The specific condition we are talking about is the crenation. The word crenation means that the shrinkage of cells. Because here we have to keep it clear, we have to keep it in mind that we are talking about the environment. The environment is hypotonic. What is the solute concentration in the environment? We are not talking about the inside of the cell. There is more solute concentration outside, and then what will definitely be in the cell? It will be less. Isotonic solution. Isotonic means the same solute concentration. If there is such an environment where the solute concentration is as much as in the cell, then what will be its overall impact? If the water molecules are coming out of the cell, then they are going in from the outside. Ten molecules are coming out of the cell, and ten molecules are going out of the cell. So there will be no difference on the overall cell. Neither will the cell shrink, nor will there be crenation. Neither will the cell burst, nor will it be a target. Hypotonic solutions. Hypotonic solutions are such solutions, or there is an environment where solute concentration is less. Hypotonic means low concentration of solute, such an environment where solute concentration is less. What will be its scenario? Environment is hypotonic, which means solute concentration is less. There is more solute concentration in the cell, and the water has to always move from low solute to high solute. The result is that when you keep a solute in a low concentration cell in a hypotonic environment, then the water molecule will move into the cell. The cell that moves inside the molecule will be first translated, flattened, and then ultimately burst. This will shrink the cell in a hypotonic environment. The cell volume will remain the same in an isotonic environment. The cell will swell in a hypotonic environment, and there will be chances of burst. If we look at the diagram, in the isotonic environment, this cell is the proper shape of the red blood cell. Now we know that the shape of the biconcave is the shape of the red blood cell. So this is the proper shape of the biconcave. The amount of water molecules are entering the cell, and the amount of molecules are going out. This is what you have to keep in mind, but we cannot say that there will be no molecules entering the cell. Molecules always cross the membrane. But in isotonic, the amount of molecules that cross the membrane, they cross out as much as possible. This is how the ratio is equal. So no one will have to worry about the volume of the cell. In the hypotonic environment, hypotonic means that there is a lot of outside salt concentration. There are high salts. Salt concentration. There is a lot of outside salt concentration in the cell. The environment is hypotonic, hypotonic. If I simplify this, I will write it as hypotonic environment. So in the hypotonic environment, molecules will come out of the cell, because there is a lot of salt and solute concentration in the cell. So molecules will come out of the cell, because of which the cell will shrink. In the hypotonic environment, hypotonic means low. There is less solute concentration in the environment. What is outside the cell? Low solute concentration. What is the impact of this? Outside the solute concentration is low. The cell has a high solute concentration in the cell. So the water always goes there, because there is a lot of solute concentration. So in the hypotonic environment, water molecules will move from the outside to the inside. Now when the water molecules go inside the cell, then what will happen? The cell has a special volume. Before coming inside the water molecule, the cell will swell. If you look at isotonic and hypotonic, there is a proper shape in the isotonic. There is a proper shape in the cell, where the cell has already swelled. When the water molecule enters the cell, it will burst. So the cell will burst. We have to see this experimentally. So let's put the cells in the hypotonic environment. If the cells are bursting in the hypotonic environment, which means there is less solute concentration.


Welcome to this special webinar, which is organized by ConvoSight in association with Exchange for Media. The paradigm of marketing has changed totally, and it has become category-specific. Today, the topic of discussion that we have chosen is how are electronic brands innovating in customer reach-out channels post-COVID-19? Let me put a little bit of context into the association between ConvoSight and E4M. ConvoSight is the largest and most loud platform by community builders and leaders to grow and manage their communities on Facebook. More than 4,000 admins trust ConvoSight to grow and manage over 90 million members in their communities. That is Facebook groups, which is itself a huge number. It also helps brands engage with existing communities, supercharge social listening, purpose-led marketing campaigns, and build communities from scratch. To take on this discussion, we have some experts, some of the top names from the industry. I want to first welcome Mr. Amit Tiwari, who's the Vice President of Marketing, Havels. Mr. Tiwari is a well-known name. He's an expert columnist. He writes all over. The final name when it comes to marketing insights, welcome, sir, on the panel. We also have with us Mr. Ranjwit Singh. Sorry, Ranjwit Singh, ex-SVP, Samsung, XCMO, HP, and Microsoft. Mr. Singh has led marketing for some of the top consumer electronic brands in India. He comes with a rich experience, spanning from mobiles, laptops, computer accessories, you name it. He's there. Welcome, Mr. Singh, to this panel. We also have with us Mr. Sanjay Chitkara, Vice President, Sales Innovation, LG India. He has over three decades of rich experience in sales and marketing in companies like Videocon, LG, and others. Welcome, Mr. Chitkara, on the panel. And moving on, I also have Mr. Vevo Mishra, Community Head Tech Guru India. Mr. Mishra started Guru in class 10, blogging since college, and building Tech Enthusiasts Community on Facebook. Tech Guru India has over 47,000 members, reaching very close to the 50K number. And to moderate this discussion, I am privileged to introduce Ms. Tamanna, the major, who is joining us literally across continents from the US. She is the CEO and co-founder of Converse site. Before building Converse site, she has also built India's largest parenting community with over 2 million moms and has been acknowledged as the leader, as a Facebook community leader and certified by Facebook on community building.  I hand it over to Ms. Dameja to take it forward. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Rohail. And welcome to all the panelists. Amit Ranjit and Sanjay, very, very happy to be talking to all of you. And super pumped to be having this discussion with all of you and then also Vevo, who leads one of India's oldest communities in technology, Tech Guru India, which he started, like Rohail said, when he was in school, inspired by a show on CNBC called Tech Guru. He started a blog, he started a Facebook group, and initially he just had technology enthusiasts and coders in his community. But today there's content creators, there's people who are looking to buy phones or laptops and very recently also home appliances who join his community discuss a lot about what are the best products to buy? What are the softwares? So welcome everyone. Just a little bit about, Rohail has given a good introduction, but a little bit about ConvoSight. I'm an investment banker turned entrepreneur, started my journey by building Facebook groups on parenting, moved from New York to India to build that baby destination, which is today about two million members, and then scale that to build ConvoSight. Because I realized there's millions of people building communities and there's communities that are starting out across categories. So which is why today we are here on electronics or hiking or biking or parenting. And all of these community admins need tools to help build and manage thriving communities. And also brands need tools to discover these communities at scale and access these communities for insights and purpose led marketing, which is where ConvoSight was born. Whatever we do, we sort of lead it with insights. Consumer electronics is a very, very interesting category with the change that we all have seen in our lives post this pandemic, right? It is a category which has a different place and position in our lives now. It has become a pull rather than a push. And what used to be considered luxury in the past, although discretionary spending has come down, but what used to be considered luxury has now become an essential spending. I wanted to just start, sort of kickstart the discussion by sharing some relevant insights. And I'm going to share my screen for that and just kick it off with some questions. Let me know if my screen is visible. Yes, it is, the one that is visible. Okay, okay, great. So while we are all at home, right? Everything that we're doing at home, we're clearly working at home, right? It's nice to be meeting you all from home, where you're in India, I'm in New York. So we are working from home. We are working at home. We were all in lockdown. We could not have domestic help come to our places. So we were working at home. We are learning from home. Our kids are learning from home. We are cooking a lot at home. Again, we don't have domestic help. There's also a big sort of salon at home concept, right? Because we can again, not step out. So this with home being the center, all of these things have emerged. And what's super interesting is some of the categories, specifically within electronics, that have emerged as a result of these things. So I just wanted to highlight two or three categories and one is computer peripherals. Super interesting category where the data that we've taken here is just from May onwards. But as you can see, there has been sort of a 2x increase in the overall conversations around computer peripherals, which has been led by wireless discussions around wireless. So if you look at the factor trend, wireless as a discussion point has gone up a lot in the last four months. And what's interesting is this category did not take off immediately post lockdown, but it took a few weeks before the conversation started surging. It's very, very interesting that the people who are talking about these are content creators. So there are more and more people now creating content, such as YouTubers or bloggers. And the conversations are also led by people who are working from home. And it's interesting that something like a mouse, which did not have a significant share in conversations, has today become one of the most discussed topic followed by head sex and also speakers. The next category that I wanted to talk about was laptops. This is very, very interesting. And one of the things that we've seen is the average age of buying the laptop has now shifted to six years. I would love to know all of your thoughts on, how do you see this category expand? Like it's the same people, but the category has now expanded. There's a net new set of kids, right? Who we are buying laptops from. Every member in the family now has a laptop. Earlier when we were going out to work, we were working in front of a computer. But again, now laptop is the primary machine. And as you can see, there has been a consistent increase in conversations around laptops. Overall, since the lockdown, there is a six-sex increase. From itself, there is a four-sex increase. What's interesting is also in terms of brands, Dell is the one that has seen a constant increase in sort of the share of voice. The brand share of voice chart here on the right. All other brands have maintained their share, but Dell has sort of gone up a lot during this period. So we'd love to hear thoughts on this. And then refrigerators. Now refrigerators is an ever-increasing trend. It's not just refrigerator. We picked refrigerator, but there's a very, very interesting trend that we are seeing across even vacuum cleaners or washing machines. Again, washing machines was a little bit of a luxury and we never really needed it in India because we also have home help coming. But the entire home goods segment has seen a spike and it's continuously seeing the spike. So we'd love to hear your thoughts there. And price continues to be the biggest purchase consideration factors for the home goods segment. I'll stop sharing now, but I just wanted to set context with this. So Ranjit, my first question is to you that what are your thoughts on what we saw in terms of laptops and specifically computer peripherals in your entire tenure of leading marketing at Samsung, HP, and Microsoft? Did you see times like these? Did you see times where the category was expanding? And how would you sort of gauge and react to times like these? Yeah, okay.  I just wanted to start with saying that these are really special times in terms of COVID. It's affected everyone. And there's no one that hasn't been impacted by COVID. And this impact has been huge. It's been unprecedented, psychological impact, physical impact, economic impact. So the way consumer electronics, the way we're talking about it, it's actually played a very critical role during this time. At this time it's become front and center in terms of utility and improving quality of life for people because of the different kind of roles that they're having to play in the kind of, staying at home, working at home, all of those kind of things that you talked about. Now you're right that the discretionary income has been the one that's been hit a lot and therefore the luxury super premium segment may have got constricted. And so also the mana is the entry level. Entry level has also been hit across categories, I would imagine, with economic restrictions. But it's the premium and the mid-segment. That's where consumers are finding a lot of value. So when you talk about laptops or you talk about peripherals or washing machines, refrigerators, people are now thinking they've got a different mindset. They're thinking, should I really be spending less or should I be investing for the future? Because now they're thinking a little bit more long-term and really improving their quality of life at home. And that's a very significant change in terms of consumer buying towards and the approach towards consumer electronics. When it comes to laptops, just in my tenures in the previous companies, we were always struggling with the fact that the PC penetration and the laptop penetration is so low in India. Earlier it used to be because fixed lines are not there, but now with internet connectivity, suddenly in this phase, it's become such a great help for people. The big difference is really in terms of the buying method. People have always in India wanted to be served. They want to go out to a store, want to interact with a retail person and understand the recommendation from that person. That's become very, very restrained now. And that's where digital is really playing a big role. So today I just read one of the peripheral companies, which is a leader, I saw that in your chart, even in India, has had a blowout quarter and it's not coincidence because people are becoming very dependent on laptops, peripherals and these categories. So I'm going to pause now with just those opening comments. Thank you, Ranjiv. Thanks a lot. You notice the company that has seen a spike and I think Logitech is one of the companies that has seen a spike and specifically in peripherals and very, very interesting times. I'll make my next question is for you and I'll also take what Ranjiv said in terms of kind of investing for future and people as they're staying at home, there is, they do want convenience and they are looking to invest in their comfort, but specifically around two themes which we're seeing. One is this whole cooking at home. Again, this just the whole sort of restaurant share came at home because we were locked down and that led to a change in behavior from what we're seeing because people have now enjoyed that cooking at home, have tasted the benefits of sort of fresh food and the gratification that you get by putting food on the table. It's interesting like cake was the most searched term on Google and cake is also coincidentally the most spoken about term in communities. Desserts have now moved on from Indian desserts to cakes, ovenless cakes. A lot of fusion cooking, a lot of healthy cooking conversations have spiked also because of the lack of exercise, no matter how much we're exercising at home. So that is one theme, right? And with that, have you seen a surge in cooking appliances and also any product innovations that you're looking to do because we now wanna cook fast, we wanna cook healthier and we also have to take care of the cleaning up after the cooking. So any thoughts in that space? Sure, so good evening everyone, thanks Tamanna. Also, I think just going step back and just referring to your slides, I think if you have add one more slide to it, where are all these particular demand and penetration is coming? I think it actually completes the entire picture. And before I take into cooking or into other particular appliances as a part, one thing which has happened in last four and five, four and a half, five months is there's a lot of reverse migration that has happened. Most of the metros, if you actually see in India, people don't belong to those metros. And because of work from home, people have shifted to their particular home basis because in any case you have to work from home irrespective of whichever geographies that you actually represent doesn't make any difference. So you have actually moved to your particular native basis. When you have actually reached to your native basis, you realize that you don't have the basic necessity which you're actually operating when you are in any of the metros and the main market is actually staying in those markets. So for example, as we were talking about refrigerator or laptops or even in your peripherals, anything, you're not having that. If you see the data which actually talks about the Wi-Fi connection that has happened in tier two into tier three markets, that has gone by more than 300% and it is nothing else, it's only because of the demand that has actually increased today. That there are places where people have not even thought of having a Wi-Fi which is a 300 Mbps as a speed just because today the need has actually arises. Now coming and relating to the point that you mentioned about the cooking and all and also in Townsville as you mentioned that six years is the entry level for anybody to buy laptops, 10 years is the entry level for anybody who really wants to go for trimming and shaving because you have no other option to go outside. Previously, the same age was between 15 and 16 years of age. What has happened is today because of every constraint, every appliances has become part of your life. Coming into the kitchen seat, apart from cake, if you see the amount of recipe and people who are actually trying to put a lot of recipe videos and YouTube recipe bloggers you may talk about, their entire particulars, even a small blogger without naming any blogger, your particular reach and your particular viewership has actually increased by six to seven times. And it can be as simple as how to prepare chapatti. It is as simple as because there are many, many households that never thought of increase preparing their particular home even a two times meal that can actually prepare because you never felt of the need. You have a help, now the help is not coming. You have to do everything on your own. And as you rightly said, there are many people who have actually started trying to look how to use an appliance. That's the biggest search for the appliances and how to actually maintain the appliance. But as simple as that in the mixer grinder, if one of my jars, there are three jars and if I don't, I've never been to kitchen at all. I don't know which are these jars used for. People have gone to the level of searching. What is the need for the second jar? What does a small jar will do? What's a wet dry, grinding will differ from a dry grinding. And that is how actually increase the entire engagement in the kitchen. Also, if you see one of the biggest point within the kitchen is your water purifier. You can't call anybody for service. You can't even ask. People have started calling and there are many organizations who have started supplying online video support that how can you even change your candle? How you can actually get, if how can you get an alert that the water is coming or not? What is actually what the point which I'm trying to make it and what are the ducks that I'm trying to connect is today, everything has gone to do it yourself for every consumer. Nobody is dependent on whether a service guy will come. Even my basic premise, I can actually do it on my own because it's a day to day need for me. It is, it is something that I really need to do. And I, nobody knew about this Blackstone even can happen. It can happen in future. Nobody knows, nobody can predict that by any of the tools and analysis that you have. But one thing that you can actually piece the best assured about yourself, the skills that you can actually learn today, how you can actually implement and how you can actually do in the entire. People who have talked about work from home, but one thing which is also seen because of most of the appliances, work for home is also one of the biggest concepts that people have learned that you should know how to work for your home without any help, without any external intervention. Your work for home has become one of the biggest attributes in the entire aspect what you learn in the last four or five months. Sure, very interesting Amit. So I'll take off another question from there which is sort of for all of you but just think about do it yourself. You're absolutely right, right? The specific questions that have come up on how to use products or how to even, like you said, right? Use a jar and a lot of training that is required which is where like earlier people were stepping offline. We would go to retail stores or salesperson would talk to us, explain it to us. Where do you think this explanation is now happening? People have shifted from offline. They've shifted digitally, we know, but where digitally? Where would I now go and ask for a recommendation? And where would I get that support? I would love to hear all of your thoughts on that. Like where are you tapping into insights as people have stepped digitally and providing support? So I can start off, you know, I think more and more people want to know the experience of the product before they buy it. I think that's not an exclusive e-commerce requirement. It is a general buying requirement that has emerged very strongly in India for Indian consumers across categories. They want the experience even before they buy the product and they can get that when they hear about it from others. But I think people also see through, that they see through that if there is a celebrity endorsement or if there is someone who seems to be just talking about something that may not be that credible. So credibility and authenticity is very, very important in that voice that comes out. And therefore what people really want to do is to go out and hear more people like themselves who are intentional about, you know, what anxiety they want to address or what problem they want to solve. Because this really gets us, Tamanna, right into the conversation on the middle of the funnel. Typically, at a time like this when the category is itself growing, as Amit also talked about and I also, you referred to other categories as well in consumer electronics, the one danger that's there, that brands need to watch out for is brand preference. Because it's at that time that the choice factor can become quite different from regular times. And that choice factor can be based just on maybe availability or it could be based on price or it could be based on recommendation. This is the time when people are really wanting to tune in and understand what kind of product, the nuances of the product that they want to pick up. And there's no better place than communities is my discovery really that communities, groups, this is where people like-minded people get together and that's where they pick up what is really good for them and which is better. Is it this model or that model within the same brand or one brand versus another brand? And those kinds of things that can happen across categories with that voice coming in, which is a very authentic voice of their peers. I think that's a very purpose led kind of a communication that happens within a community. So this is something, you know, which is I think really happening at scale and which is why it's reflecting in some of the slides that you probably showed, which is the number of conversations have gone up so much. I think it connects with that. Sure, thanks. Thanks, Ranjeet. Sanjay, I wanted to get your thoughts, you know, this, it's very interesting discussion that we're happening. I think there's so many things to discuss across all the categories, but specifically for home appliances and monitors. Actually monitors and I didn't have it on my slides, but we've also seen a spike in monitors in terms of discussion, right? Are you seeing that trend also? And again, home appliances where there are specific queries even for something like a, you know, washing machine that it's not just sort of dirt removal, but also germ removal. There's specific questions around that because, you know, especially for COVID, we are all worried that, you know, our clothes, even if we step out, how to make sure that our clothes are completely sanitized. So there are those specific queries coming with this increasing conversations for home appliances, specifically washing machine vacuum. So on that and monitors, you know, what are your thoughts and do you think this is an opportunity to build sort of a longer term connect with the customer now because, you know, this could be a large sort of share of wallet from a home appliance perspective. Yeah, so good evening all. So basically what I will talk based on my personal experience of last five or six months and some of the survey which we did before going to the market post lockdown. It's basically we did some survey on SCC A and B, mail 25 to 55. We wanted to know what is the general mood of the consumer and what they are looking for. So, you know, what I found that the new normal was actually normal, nothing changed. The consumer was still buying from offline. Though there was an increase on online sales and almost, I would say, 20 to 22% there was increase in our online sale. Though this online portion for LG was, is not too high. When it is good for TV sales and mobile sales, but for home appliances, it contribute only 6 to 7% of our total sale. And during this sale, what we found that out of entire online consumers, around 38% consumers were buying online just due to the reason because they wanted to maintain social distancing. That was the main reason. You know, as we rightly mentioned about microwave oven. So the easy cook is the keyword which has a 110% search in the internet during this period. So everybody was mastering cooking skills and wanted to impress the family. So this microwave oven was a dying category over the period. Every year, microwave oven, we were observing a deep growth of around 25 to 30% continuously. It was taken over by induction cooker or some other, you know, other mode of cooking. But suddenly there is a hype. You know, you will not believe. We are observing around 170 to 200% growth in microwave oven category for LG electronics during last three, four months. We don't have material for this dishwasher, which was a very small segment because the buys are not there at the home. Everybody need dishwasher. The dishwasher for us, the price range was 50,000 to 70,000 rupees. You know, whatever stocks we get, hardly it takes one or two hours to finish that stocks. I mean, there is a huge demand. Front loaders, washing machine, around 60 to 70% there is a growth in the front loaders. The biggest hike which we have observed is, you know, the TV sales. You know, we tried to find out what was the, what people are worried about this. So around 97% people were worried about their mental health, health and hygiene and safety of their families. So during this period, you know, there was no new content for the, your DTH channels. Ramayana started during that lockdown period and it was the highest rating rated program during, in the GC category during that period. There was a total surge of 28% in OTT, the new OTT connections during that period. So the whole market, so the market like UP, Patna, the empty Chattisgarh, the other, this area, Rajasthan, where 50 to 60% sale was for 2D TVs, the full HD TVs. It shifted to the smart TVs, because everybody required smart TVs because people were saving the money. You know, there was hardly any postponement of the sale. People were saving money for, that was the period for the vacation period. So whole vacations were canceled.  So there was a lot of money available with them and there was a need of all these products. The washing machine, the refrigerator, like side by side refrigerator, that category has grown by 400 to 500% times in India for us, and that too, we do not have material. So if it had been the case, we had the material, we could have sold the more material product during this time. So I would say, you know, it's a golden period for our industry and for us, because the same kind of sales we have seen during the GST time, and GST was imposed in India, or at the note-bindi that demonetized this in time, because people had money, they just desperately wanted to buy the money. Till June, everything was closed. In July, there was a surge in sale, but even the factories were closed. So there was a big gap between demand and supply. Now, you know, the things are gradually smoothing up, but now the festivals are coming. So we have very high hopes during this festival time also for the appliances sale and TV sales. You know, this time, we had a good longer period after Nauratri, you know, short period to Nauratri period, we had a good one-month period now. Now this time, the marriages were canceled. You know, the Indian consumer durable industry and TV industry, particularly in North and East part of the India, it is a big wedding economy. One of the marriage wedding gifting. Now, there were earlier restriction of 50 guests you can invite, now 100 guests. Still, there was a huge spending and overspending in weddings in Northern India, or Eastern part across the India. So now the people are saving the money. So this, so they had a budget of X amount. They are increasing the budget of that amount for gifting appliances or TVs, these canceled weddings. Now, these are happening in November and December. So we are expecting and recently government has also announced that benefit on tax because the LTA were not consumed. The benefit of LTA, the income test benefit. So now one can buy three times of the appliances and electronics within this period and can avail. So, so many good things are happening. I would say this is the golden period for our industry. And I don't know next year how we will, you know, register a growth over this period. That's the reality, I'm telling you. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Sanjay. And it's just, it's very, very interesting, right? Some of us taking notes as you were talking about some of these things because it seems like is the new category creation and expansion, right? Like there's just, it's an exchange to habit. So I'm sure that hopefully the growth issue is year on year growth still remains because our habits have now changed. So now, let me tell you, there are two manufacturers like Sanjay and LG worldwide for module, the panels. These modules can be used to make the televisions for laptops or monitors or mobile phones. Currently to sell the global demand for micro, for laptops and monitors is so high that we are not getting panels for TV. There's a cute shortage in the market for the TVs. That's the reality and it has never happened. You know, I have a 30 years of experience of this industry. I've never seen a price increase in televisions. It has always dropped. It has always dropped. Every year 20 to 30% drop in TV has happened. But this time from last three or four months we have been increasing the price of TVs because there is huge demand and we do not have supply and the material cost has gone up. Very, very interesting. I think we're seeing that spike. So one thing we saw is a rise in entertainment like communities, right? Where people are talking, they're even discussing specific shows that they're watching, right? There's a Motu Patlu community which has 1.5 million members. So there is that discussion, but we're over to you now, right? Like would love to hear from you. How have you seen things change in your group post COVID? Have the conversations changed? Have the number of people who are joining changed? And what are they talking about? So would love to hear from you. Thank you, Tamanna. Good evening, everyone. Post COVID, most of the people like in my community are talking about like buying gaming rigs, monitor. And as Sanjay said, like people are buying TV this time, okay? So what people are asking in the groups, like is there any TV that I can buy and the same TV I can also use Zoom by using a camera or I can play games? Is there any TV for a high FPS games or I can enjoy my computer in the same panel? So yeah, these kind of queries are like use increase in this kind of query. And of course the mobile phones once in the lockdown, they are just suggestions. The students are asking like, I wanted to start YouTube and community and website and it's at the block. But when the government started online sales, like there are used increment in the questions like which phone should I buy? What are the like these features I wanted in my phone? Like good camera, AGB RAM, 128. So this kind of questions are increased. Post COVID. And of course the home appliances are also there.  I like highly said, like I highly did like prop loaded washing machine question but most of the questions are related to washing your friends loaded. So yeah, these are the questions that I can ask post COVID. And where of who are these people? Like why do you think they join your group to ask these questions? They can go and get this information elsewhere but who are these people? So of course these are the people who are very technical, okay? So they watch YouTube, they are on Facebook, they are on Instagram. But most of the people don't trust on YouTube because they are biased reviews for all the products. So they thought why not? We can ask this question in community where I can get the honest answer for any product or for, you can say honest review because there are many people who are using that product in that particular time. And so they can give the answer like what are the things that company should improve? What are the things which is really good in this product? So people are like, they can see us and they are eager to help you and they are giving you answers. And these are the like really honest answers, I should say because they are not paid by any brand or any marketing campaign. So yeah, that's why people are this question in community. Do you accept all the people who choose to join your community? Of course not. Because there are lots of spanning with all on Facebook today. So first once we get any request, so first we look into the profile. So if we find out who is the person which is suitable for our group because of course we have some certain criteria to join the group. So once you find out then only we accept the request. Otherwise we directly reject them. And if anytime we found out people are spanning in the group after they're joining, we directly remove them and remove the post. So to make this community clean, so this is very important. Sure, it really yeah. So on an average when we see the acceptance rate of Facebook groups is close to 60%. And there's no way to run a paid ad and increase Facebook groups. So that's interesting. Web of you said that they know these are honest answers and it's not promotion. So does this mean brands cannot interact with consumers in the community? I know you had mentioned about a campaign that you did for a brand. Just tell us a little bit more. How was that campaign? What happened? Yeah, of course brand can interact with people. There are chances like when Xiaomi had to launch their MIUI 10. Okay, but it was MIUI 10, yeah. So they wanted beta tester. Of course Xiaomi have a big community of fans. But as I heard from Xiaomi social media team, like they are just people who you can serve anything and they will like, yeah, that's cool. That's okay. We can go with that. So Xiaomi offered me like some of Xiaomi social media team offered me okay, we wanted to promote this campaign in your group and we wanted beta testers for our MIUI. And then they promote this kind of form and they started promoting this beta tester requirement in my group and they got good number of beta tester and they shared good amount of like review for their MIUI 10 and the apps related and all the feedback that a real consumer want to share with the brand. So brand can also improve their quality and they can also understand the real thing point of the consumers because sometimes what happened you are doing marketing, you are getting like you are paying for the social media team for that. And you are not getting organic users. They have paid user and you are also not getting a very honest review because the people who are doing work on YouTube making content, they also want to interact with the brand. So of course when they talk about phone they will say yeah this phone is good, this brand is good. So they can get inside from the brand but in community these people are not there. The people, they will share what they want to share. So that's why. So and it was a very good campaign with Xiaomi, of course I'll say. Like they got lots of MIUI beta testers from our group. What was very interesting for me I actually just spoke to them yesterday and I was asking him and he told me about this and I was very curious. I said why did Xiaomi come to your group to get beta testers? Because they have one of the largest communities I think after Apple. So I said why did they come to your community? And he said because their community just has their fans. So they cannot recruit for beta testing. So they go to Facebook groups to recruit and to get feedback. So this was super interesting to me that while having their own thriving community they're still going to this sort of organic set of people but so is very interesting. So today there's 1.8 billion people who meaningfully engage in groups every month. Facebook had their summit just last week where they released this numbers. There are 17 million people who are creating Facebook groups across all categories. We actually call it the best kept secret. I think YouTube, Instagram have become very, very important content dissemination channel and I think Amit as you also pointed out for DIY for there's a lot of instructional videos, content which could be posted reviews and that's one way where people are spending time online but groups is then where we are at least seeing they're coming and asking for recommendations. And that actually brings me to my next question that we've now seen all of the data that you guys have shared and I shared initially that across, it seems like across categories in electronics there is a spike. There is a spike in demand, surge in interest and it is here to stay. Where are you all, which channels are you all tapping into get these insights as well as increase pens to get in front of consumers meaningfully. So what specific digital channels are you tapping into for both insights as well as marketing digitally? This question is for the entire panel. So yeah, Amit, we can start with you. Sure. So Tamana, it is, if you see today, it is anything and everything and that is how which is today online or digital is no more a medium. It's part of life today. So you can't say, I can only go in four or five different there and as you rightly talked about today, nobody is actually targeting consumers. Everybody's targeting communities. So once you start targeting communities, then obviously everybody becomes your audiences and it hardly makes any difference whom and what particular cycle of your particular journey is actually doing and how it is actually making the differences. Your consumer decision journeys are actually now trying to change into consumer digital journey. You are starting mapping how their entire particular digital ecosystem in their particular life started moving. So anything and everything under the sun that is available for you today, you can actually tap it and you can find what's a meaningful conversation within that community that you can actually try to do. Because three things that has actually transpired in which I also created one of the frameworks for doing that, which is a 3D framework, which is trust, transparency and technology. That is what consumers are looking today. If you're actually able to trust in any of the communities and the groups that you call it are giving me that particular leeway of trust, is it a transparent platform where I can actually go and find my particular conversation meaningful as a word of mouth meaningful and how technology is actually trying to shape up all the three together. That is what I want to contribute at this part of it. It's very interesting. I think speaking about trust and word of mouth, right? And you said organic word of mouth, which is now happening digitally. So again, I would love to know how are we measuring this organic word of mouth or we call it share of voice, right? How do we measure the share of voice? You know, what are the new channels that you're looking to for measuring this share of voice, which is organic? Would love to hear from Amityu or Sanjay or Ranjeev, just the question to the panel. You know, I was hoping we can sort of conclude with this that what are the, so that whoever's viewing this can get more insights on where should they now go to tap into this increasing demand, to engage meaningfully with consumers and get that sort of spike in growth which also, you know, and answer consumers' questions. What are the channels that we should go to? Look, I can go next. I am, so I think what Amit talked about was very interesting. He talked about the 3D model and trust is a big part of that. However, trust is, you know, is not something that you can just command or you demand. It's something that you earn. Trust is something that is built over time, but more importantly, there's a first step in that, particularly in the pandemic, in a time of crisis, consumers really were floundering, which was a new way for them. And that's my view that the brands that stood out were the ones that actually extended themselves to help. Now, how can you help? How can a brand extend itself or how can a brand move and start talking to its consumers and retailers, you know, sort of constricted, et cetera? It's really the online space. It's the digital, it's the communities where that engagement starts happening. Now, that can happen across the value chain of the four Ps of marketing. You can have price offers. You can also have product innovation. You can have packaging changes. You can have delivery services, many different ways in which a brand can stand in. It can extend the warranty period. There are so many things that brands have done to help. When the brand comes in to help is when the relationship starts developing. And that's the relationship is a precursor to developing trust. So it's not that you land on trust from day one. You have the number of steps that you have to put together to be able to get there, but it's just not possible to do even in the digital space without technology. And so the advantage that now we have is AI, ML, and the fact that we can work across huge scalable level. And if you're particularly looking at social media platforms, then you really got to look at a scaled out model for doing that. Because consumer will otherwise see through what you're trying to do. And if you're not in your purpose and if you're not really centered around that, it just writing out a check to some relief fund is not the only way to help out in this time. It is how do you engage? How do you make quality of life better? And that's where people pick up those signals, those conversations, and they do that in the communities. And I feel at least measuring that, understanding that, and shaping that in a way that you're still in your purpose and moving your brand in that right direction are the ways and the signals that you really want to align yourself towards. So that's my thought on this. Tamana, just to add on what Ajit said, I think what your answer looking for is, one size doesn't fit for all. The measurement will not be happened from an X category that can be replicated to a Y category. So if in our particular balance, if you operate in 32 categories, the same measurement will not be applicable from one category to 32 categories. Because your consumer digital journeys are very different. Your consumer decision journeys are very, very different. And your consumer connect are very, very different. Even within the entire community of digital, your four-piece, as Ranjeet was talking, is absolutely changed today. So your four-piece of tradition has not changed to platform, process, your preferences and people. It has absolutely changed today. Keeping that in mind, you have to decide which category maps to your particular consumer decision journeys, and how you can measure and how you can see the effectiveness of that. Technology is there. It is up to you how you use the technology to the best of your abilities, not only in terms of gaining insights, but also in terms of using those insights, in terms of reaching out to customers, not because customer is five step ahead that what you are thinking as a brand. That has to be the starting point for any conversation that you actually draw. So Tamanna, I would like to add something in this discussion. Some interesting things which we did during this pandemic. Whereas I've told you post-lockdown, we decided how to connect with the consumer and what to do now or how to do our marketing during this time. Consumer were very sensitive at that time. So we wanted to know, we wanted to just gauge what is the actual mood of the consumer. So we started with a survey and the results were that there were three things which were on the top of the mind of the consumer. First thing was the health and hygiene and safety of his family. That was across everywhere, each consumer, everybody. Around 97% of respondents said they are concerned about this. Second thing, and during that time, the patriotism, because you know, there was the India-China phase off and all these things were happening. So that was in that top of the mind during that time. And the third thing was the fear for the future. That 22% of the consumers said, no, we don't know currently if we buy any product or we invest on any product, what will happen if something goes wrong? I have to, because at that time, the hospitalization for any COVID-infected person was mandatory. And they were huge cost of hospitalization. You know, the packages were there. So these were the three things. So we decided to go not to spend money in any kind of media. We thought, let's talk about health and hygiene. How our products can help consumer to maintain this health and hygiene. Like we have a steam wash washing machine. Let's talk about that.  And there was a really underrated feature in our water purifier. That was a digital sterilization. You know, our water purifier, it does not require any kind of physical touch to clean it. It can be digitally sterilized. So we started talking about these things on online, on various media. Then we, because I told you that, that nationality, patriotism, all these feelings were too high. CSR was the activity which we thought, let's do this. And that was the time when community need us and consumers, they prefer to purchase the product where they can add some positive values. So we donated around 6,000 products in various quarantine centers and COVID wards. We talked, did a lot of PR for these, all these things. We distributed some of the, you know, laundry for police people. We distributed 1 million face shields to police. We did tire with Aksha Patra. We redistributed 10 million food packets there. So we did a lot of PR activities so that, you know, we can connect to the consumer instead of doing a direct marketing of our products because they are very sensitive during this time. They don't want to listen us. What buy this, buy that, do this, do that. The third thing was the, you know, the fear for the future.  We will give you this free. For the fear for the future, we were the possible to do the tire with insurance company. Look, we will give you insurance if you buy our product. If something goes wrong, we don't do not require any kind of hospitalization bill. You just give us any government recognized laboratory test report that you are COVID positive. We will give you 50,000 rupees. No question asked. That was complimentary for each, if you buy any of our product. These things really helped us. You know, now there was asymptomatic patients are also there. So they, and people got this insurance claim. So we worked on all these three things. Parallely, we thought now consumer cannot come to our stores. Now what we should do? We did this store on wheels. Okay. I'm sorry to say, I'm really sorry to intervene at this point, but I just have to remind that we have 10 minutes left and we have questions from the audience. May I just ask a couple of questions or Tamana, you can ask your last comment and then I can ask the questions. Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to, this is very fascinating. Sanjay, I would actually love to connect even later and learn this is a very, very structured approach to first understanding the problems, right? Which you did the insight, which you did through the survey and then going all out and being there for the consumers, right? Answering their top of the mind, which is really what purpose led marketing is, right? It's not about, I would love to connect later and understand that, you know, what were the channels that were used for this message outreach? This is the first time I'm hearing about this. I would have loved to kind of hear about this and spread the word in even other communities that, you know, we have access to it. So would love to understand more, but this is fascinating. I think just acting so fast doing the survey and then getting on to the next steps. You know, Veet is actually another brand which did this. They did this and I know this because they did it across communities, but they launched a whole Veet Cares initiative where again, you know, Beauty at Home also became a big challenge and the top things that came out was people don't know how to do certain beauty regime at home, right? So how to even do hair removal at home. So they bought in experts and dermatologists and also beauty experts and just went all out with this messaging. But it's great to see brands stepping up, right? And I think now is the time for purpose led marketing, thinking about building long-term connect with the consumer. Thank you. I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and so many like non-stop notes I've taken. I'm going to reach out to each one of you and we'll also be releasing a report on the insights for electronics in which would love to take some inputs from all of you as well. We'll be releasing that end of the month. Yes. I want to ask my first question, the audience question. Mr. Tiwari, to you, one of the questions is that how is the festive season looking like, you know, for the brands, electronic brands right now? Name is not given, it's anonymous question. Very good. So festival, I think there's quite a good buzz in the market when it comes to festivals. If you see from the overall upbeat of the consumer sentiments are quite good in terms of the way people are, you can actually gauge this through a lot of people engagement that are happening. So festival looks quite good, but I think the last thing, the last mile would depend upon how does you actually translate and how does the things move into the entire preference that consumer look for. But as of now, if you see, there's a lot of buzz in the market in terms of festivals, I think so. Right, right. Tamanna, to you, the question is, how much time does it take for a brand to get ROI from the community? And there's an added question, how have you defined the metrics as far as, you know, building that ROI for the community building is concerned? Sure. So, Rohail, I'll take the second part first, right? What are the metrics in terms of ROI? So the beauty of a community is there are conversations. It's not a broadcast or just content dissemination. There's two way conversations. So the measurement actually happens right from mid to bottom of the funnel, starting from basic engagement down to increase in category conversations, increase in brand conversations or brand share of voice. And the biggest metric that we want to move is this organic word of mouth or share of voice, right? And that's sort of how we measure. And then there's conversion-led objectives such as, you know, sampling or research or obtains, et cetera. The time that it takes, so typically, you know, when an admin goes with a message, like however said, it was a specific objective that was defined. That was to recruit beta testers. The admin goes out with the message. The message is super relevant because the members are there to talk about that topic. If people are asking which washing machine to use not just for removing dirt but for germ kill and we go with that information, then there's more conversations. Okay, so how do I use it? Is this right? So it's pretty, it could be a week, two weeks, but usually these are sustained activities where the brands decide to do X number of interventions over a period of six months or 12 months with different messages. Mr. Chutkar, I also want to come to you with the same question which I also posed to Mr Singh, which is that Pallavi is asking, the question is to both of you, that what is the key takeaway from this pandemic for brands like yours? I can start with you, Mr. Chutkar, yes. You know, the biggest takeaway from this pandemic is, for my businesses, like there are only 10% things which can affect your business, but 90% is the business depend how you react to that situation. You know, one way was that when we used to talk to our team, they said, sir, what's going to happen? We are totally, they have given up, but the biggest takeaway is, you will have to innovate in each situation. Like we have around 10,000 sales promoter across the India, they were sitting at home. We started them, you start creating a lead during this time, you call to your consumer, ask their health, ask about their product services. We sold more than one lakh product during this time just by creating telephone calls. Right, right, great. Yes, Mr. Singh, how would you add to it? I think, you know, the crisis is the time when the true element of a company, the culture, the ethos comes to life. And that's where you get to know what really the brand is about. Has the brand really stepped out of its own circle of suffering? Right. To extend itself to firstly those retailers, you know, think about them and their families. Think about those assistants who are there and their families and those who are dependent on the, and think about your consumers. Think about your channel partners and actually start working out programs to be able to help them. Because no matter what we say, at least at least what we are talking about here, the large brands operating in consumer electronics are very blessed to be in the position to be able to extend that help. And the economy does depend to a very large extent on brands like this. So I would say this is a time to really go beyond, go beyond yourself and really think about that. And then in that, you discover new ways of communicating, which is what the topic is really about. How do you engage your consumers? How do you help them out? How do you build relationships? And then how do you get trust? Don't think about just the sales and the billing and things like that. This is not the time for that. That will happen. The categories that will go up will go up. The point is, will your brand be preferred or not? If you've been able to do a good job of stepping out of yourself, then the results will be there. So that's my thought. Right. Mr. Mishra, for you, creating sticky content is one of the big challenges always been there. How are you enabling that for your community? How have you made your community so loyal to the content that you make? So first thing is what people want in community to do. Like no random content, no spamming. So this is the most important thing in our community. So once you did this thing, okay, then people start talking to each other. And then every time when you post, like you have to show, like you are care about your people, your community. And every time when you post anything, it's automatically like a sticky content for our consumers, for the users who are actually in that community. Right. So you just have to interact with them. Like if someone asking a question, no matter you have time or not, but you should answer that question. So that they find like how you care about your people in the community. Right. Right. So I'll leave it to you, Mr. Mishra, to last we have like a television panel type one minute, two minutes. So you can take over to you. So just one last question. Are there any thoughts on building your own community? This is for the entire panel. Sorry. So it is not a, if I may go, I think it is not about building the community, but the bigger challenge is sustaining the community. It is very easy to build a community, but it's very tough to sustain and at least engage that community. And if you see the communities that are successful and the communities which are really not successful in doing that, the proportion is huge. It is one is to 100 proportion that is there. Second thing is what is the purpose of that community? I think that has to be defined first. And what is that actually attribution that goes to the brand? It is not about just because of fancy community building that you want to do, you create a community. And after five months inside that it is of no use. So entire effort, time, money spent is actually goes for a toss. So if you really want to build a community, purpose has to be defined. And do you have a sustainable and scalable plan to really have an engagement and a meaningful community? Then it makes sense. Otherwise it is just one particular asset that you're trying to make and create in your particular pool of assets that you actually do. That's my thought on that. Thanks. Would love to hear other panelists' views on this. I think it's absolutely right on it. But I would like all other assets, there needs to be objective, purpose defined. It has to be sustainable, scalable and hopefully the biggest source of ROI. But would love to hear other panelists' thoughts on this. Well, I can comment on this. I'm not really practicing anymore. But if I was to look at this in terms of some advice that I would give to someone, I would first say, first, participate in communities. Bring this into your main line, thinking about as a part of your media mix and think about how you actually engage with consumers. And then the decision whether to build out your own store or participate in a mall, akin to that kind of an example, first I would test out the waters in community that exists and see what values can be derived there. But then depends on the strategic objective of the brand. And I cannot think of anything that's more important than engaging consumers. Consumers are the center of everything that a brand needs to do, at least in the consumer space. So I would imagine that this should really come on to the strategic map and start executing towards it and start taking some steps towards building out communities. Thanks, Trinji. So I think it's clear, right? The two or three things that have clearly come out is there is, it's a never before time for the entire sort of electronic space, right? In this category. And in uncertain times like these people are propelling online, they are propelling towards smaller, safer communities and do value the inputs and commodity in these channels. It's very interesting to see how brands have tapped into and done research surveys and then gone on and engage meaningfully with the consumers, right? Rather than just sales ads. So super interesting. I will reach out to all of you for your inputs which we can include in our report that we're releasing end of this month. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Ms. Dharmachur. Thank you, Sir Amitji, Ranjwit Singh Ji, Sanjay Ji. I'm so sorry if I mispronounce any name. Thank you very much for joining us on this conversation. We hope to join you and we invite you to more of such webinars. Thanks again. Thank you so much. You have been very good as a host in terms of all of this. Thank you so much. All of you have been a good host. Thanks for inviting us. Thank you so much. Thanks all the panelists. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


Hi everyone, I'm here to talk about our work on blackbox zero-knowledge. This is a joint work with my advisor, Amkan Pandey. Zero-knowledge is a so important primitive that requires no interaction. In this work, we focus on blackbox zero-knowledge. By blackbox, we mean the construction of the zero-knowledge protocol only makes use of the underlying primitive in a blackbox way. So why we are interested in blackbox zero-knowledge? Because the efficiency of the zero-knowledge protocol is not affected no matter how you implement the underlying building blocks. Over the years, our community has developed so many blackbox zero-knowledge protocols. However, once you want to use the zero-knowledge protocol to prove a statement involving some cryptographic gadgets, things change. That means even though the zero-knowledge protocol itself is blackbox, once you write on such a statement, you are bound to make non-blackbox use of the underlying primitive that is involved in a statement. This is actually a quite common situation. For example, think of the Naurion paradigm or the GMW compiler. In these situations, you need to write the zero-knowledge proof on an encryption or on a commitment. Then you have to know the code of the encryption or the commitment scheme. In this work, we are particularly interested in this simple language. This language captures the range membership of a one-way function F. This language itself is blackbox because to test the membership of the language, if someone gives you the witness, which is the pre-image, you only need blackbox access to the one-way function F. As we know, zero-knowledge can be constructed from one-way function in a blackbox way. Now we have this language that also makes only blackbox access to the one-way function F. Then a natural question would be, can we have a zero-knowledge protocol for this language, making only blackbox access to the one-way function F? To capture this task formally, MAC Resolutex defines the notion of functionally blackbox zero-knowledge. Let's look at the range membership language we defined before. FBBZK requires the existence of a protocol where both parties have only blackbox access to this F. The statement is the image Y, and the prover holds additionally the pre-image X as the witness. The prover wants to prove that Y is indeed in the range of F. The companies and soundness are defined in a natural way. For the zero-knowledge property, as you can see, it's also the same as the traditional one. The only difference is now both parties have blackbox access to F in the real execution. I want to point out that it is not necessary to require that the simulator makes only blackbox access to this one-way function F or not. You can choose to give the code to the simulator. But the parties in the real execution, they must have blackbox access to this one-way function. Unfortunately, Rosalek shows that functionality blackbox zero-knowledge doesn't exist even for this simple range membership language. This is actually quite discouraging, because as we mentioned before, we usually need to run ZK for a capital statement. But now, even for this simple range membership language, we cannot do that. Therefore, in this work, we ask the question, can we somehow bypass this lower bound? So the first question is, why can we even hope for bypassing this lower bound? If you look at the Rosalek lower bound carefully, it says for given one-way function F, you cannot have a blackbox protocol for the range membership of this one-way function. Our idea here is to construct a new one-way function from the given one-way function, and then try to construct a zero-knowledge protocol for the new one-way function in a blackbox way. I will elaborate on this in the next slide. More formally, we are looking for an oracle evergum F and an oracle protocol Pi. If we instantiate them with one-way function, F to the F will be a one-way function, and Pi to the F will be a zero-knowledge protocol for the range membership of the new one-way function F to the F, that is, this new blackbox language. It is important to notice that both F to the F and Pi to the F make only blackbox access to the given one-way function small f. We call this primitive proof-based one-way function. We can also define proof-based PRG and the collision-resistant hash function in a similar way. Then, why this approach has a potential to bypass Rosalek's lower bound? There are two reasons. First, given an input, this capital F can make many oracle queries to the small f. Also, it can perform post-processing or pre-processing on the intermediate oracle answers. Also, the protocol Pi, even though it cannot use the code of the small f, it can use the code of the capital F. If this idea can really help us bypass Rosalek's lower bound, then our hope is that in applications where you need to run the zero-node proof on one-function PRG or hash function, we will just use the proof-based version instead. Now, the question is, is this proof-based notion really possible to achieve? In this work, we provide results on both sides. On the negative side, we show that proof-based one-function is impossible. Actually, due to some technical reasons, we are only able to show that proof-based PRG is impossible. But this is already a strong evidence showing the limitation of the proof-based notion. Next, we show that if we give the Wi-Fi some control of over the input, then proof-based notion actually becomes possible. I'll explain later what do we mean by some control over the input. Let me first give a very brief overview of our negative result. Here, the strategy is, we assume the existence of a proof-based PRG, and then we try to derive a contradiction. Given any one-way function f, a proof-based PRG consists of two parts. First, we have this Oracle algorithm, g to the power f, which is the PRG. We also have this Oracle, pi to the f, which is a ZK protocol for the range membership relation of the PRG. To derive the contradiction, we first consider the honest execution of the protocol, where both the prover and the verifier has Oracle access to the one-way function f. And we have an honest generated pre-image image pair, x and y. In this habit, by the companies of the ZK protocol, we have the verifier we accept with probability close to one. Now we consider another habit, where we resample the Oracle, but we keep the most likely queries of the verifier. Let's look at the real execution here. During the execution, the verifier can make multiple queries to the Oracle f. Now we collect all the query answer pairs that obtained by v with high probability. And we call this set QEasy. We keep this QEasy set fixed, but we resample every other points of the Oracle f. We call this new Oracle fPrem. Now intuitively, because we keep all the queries asked by v with high probability, these two executions from this point of view shouldn't differ too much. Therefore, in habit one, p should also accept with probability close to one. Actually, there will be an additional one over party loss, but in this talk, we don't need to pay much attention to this. Then in the paper, we proved a technical lemma, which says if we start with an y that is in the range of g to the power f, then we replace this f by the composition of fPrem and QEasy set. The probability that y is still in the range of this g instantiated with this new Oracle is no larger than half. This actually gave us a contradiction, because in habit one, the verifier still accepts with probability very close to one. This technical lemma is our major contribution in this part, but due to time constraints, I won't talk about it here. More details can be found in our paper if you are interested. Now we just showed that proof-based PRG is impossible, and this is also evidence for the impossibility of proof-based one function. Then we want to ask the question, can we somehow relax the proof-based notion such that it's still meaningful and achievable? This is our original definition for proof-based one function. Here, we draw some inspirations from the famous Gojek 11 theorem. That is, instead of viewing the input as a single string x, we want to split it into two parts, x and r. We require that f is the one function on its first input for arbitrary r. Then in a protocol, we allow the verifier to pick the r part. Intuitively, this allows the verifier to hold some part of the input, which he can use to verify the range membership. And as we will show later, this relaxation indeed allows us to have a construction. But here I want to make two remarks. First, since the verifier chooses the r part, to have a meaningful notion of one-wayness, we want to say that no matter what the r is, the function should be one-way. This is the exact reason why we stipulate that one-wayness should hold for arbitrary r. Second, this r part is picked by the verifier. It's not a part of the public statement, so it becomes a little bit trickier to define your knowledge. Here we have to switch to a two-PC flavor definition. More formally, our new definition for proof-based one-function works as follows. As we said before, we want one-wayness to hold for our r. Now for companies and for ziki, we're gonna use a two-PC flavor definition. We compare a real execution and the edu execution. In a real execution, the sender has x as input, and the receiver has r as input. These are the two parts of the input we split as x and r. These two parties run the protocol if defined by the proof-based one-function. At the end of the execution, the sender learns x and r, which are supposed to be the input of the one-function, fxr. The receiver learns the outer y, which is supposed to be the image of f under xr. In the edu world, there is a trusted third party computing f to the f. The sender will provide the x part of the input. The receiver will provide the r part. The trusted third party just return r back to f honestly, and compute the outer y and give it to the receiver. Once we are in this simulation paradigm, ziki can be defined by requiring the security for malicious receiver. To define soundness, we require that whenever the receiver outputs a value y, that is non-abort, there must exist a pre-image such that this equation holds. If you are interested, you can pause the video and look at this more formal version of soundness. Now we are ready to talk about our construction. I will present a first attempt that doesn't quite work, but it gives us inspirations. Remember that the proof-based one-function consists of two parts, the function and the protocol that prove its range of membership. Here I will describe the protocol first, because from the description of the protocol, it's easy to derive what the function should look like. Let's recall our setting first. We have the sender and the receiver having black box access to a one-function f. The sender holds the s part of the input, and the receiver picks the r part of the input. Our first idea is inspired by the cutting-chose technique. Concretely, we ask the sender to pick n pre-image, query the protocol, and learn the corresponding y1 through yn. The sender will send the image to the receiver. Now the receiver has no idea of the corresponding pre-image. But he will pick a random size t subset, where t is a constant fraction of n. Receiver sends this r. The sender will reveal the pre-image in the positions specified by the size t random subset. The receiver, of course, checks if the positions in r are open honestly. If the check passes, he will output all the images under the pre-image for position r, and also this subset r, as a final output. From this protocol, it's not hard to see that a corresponding y function should look like this. On input x and r, it just outputs the same output as the receiver. Let's look at what we achieved. Here are n positions. The receiver checks the size t random subset. This ensures that a malicious sender can cheat on at most k positions out of n, where k is a constant fraction of n. This is not good enough. Recall that the stoneness of the proof-based y function requests that, if the receiver accepts, there must exist a pre-image. However, this protocol only ensures that there exists some string that is 1 minus delta close to a real pre-image. As we said before, that's because x star can still cheat on the delta fraction. This inspires us to think of the following idea. Can we somehow extend f to f, such that, for all the strings within a delta bar of a real pre-image, these strings are also valid pre-image. Now, I'm going to talk about how to incorporate this delta bar into the domain of the only function. Here, we need a new idea called pre-image editing. Concretely, we modified the previous only function in the following way. On input x and r, the function parses x as x1 through xn and an additional beta part. As we will see later, this beta part is the key component that allows us to incorporate the delta bar. Then, as before, the function query the oracle to compute y1 through yn, and as before, it parses r as a sasti subset of n. Now, to compute the output y, we consider two separate cases. The first case is a non-editing case. It is identified by this condition. This condition just says, if you collect the Pi part from beta, it forms a subset of positions. If this subset of positions is overlapping with the positions specified by r, the function just operates as before. That is, it put all the y1 through yn in the s part. The more interesting case is the editing case. This case is identified by the complement of the previous one. In this situation, for all the positions specified by the P set, we can set si to the value specified by the corresponding ypi prime. For all the other positions, we will just use the y return beta oracle. This might be confusing if you look at it for the first time, but the main takeaway is, if the editing case is triggered for the positions specified by this P set, the corresponding si values are already appearing in the input. Anyone who holds this input can tell these values directly. Let's see how this resolves the previous problem. Recall that the previous problem is we may have k bad positions in the pre-image. Now, by making use of this editing case, we want to correct all these k bad positions using the values specified by ypi prime values contained in this beta part. I think it will help if we run through this mini example. Let's say, after the execution of the protocol, the receiver learned the y of this form. Where this S4 is a bad position. Also, this y tells us that the set R consists of this 1 and 3. Now, I claim that this X is a valid pre-image. Let's take a closer look at this X. Here, we have X1, 2, 3, and X5. These are the valid pre-image of S1, 2, 3, and S5. Note that these pre-images exist because the only bad position is S4. For S1, 2, 3, and S5, there must exist corresponding pre-images. So the only problematic position is S4. Now in the pre-image we constructed, we just put a zero string as a pre-image of S4. We make the beta part look at 4 and S4. This S4 comes from the y. To see why this X is a valid pre-image of y, let's try to evaluate the function f on X and R following the definition on this set. By definition, we know that the R set is 1, 3, and the corresponding P set is simply 4. Therefore, these two sets does not overlap, so we triggered this editing condition. Therefore, it doesn't matter what value we put here, because this position is a position specified by P. In the output, we will always put S4 as the corresponding output. Therefore, if you follow the steps listed on the left, you can verify that X and R is a valid pre-image for this y. Here I want to make one more remark. This X1, 2, 3, and X5, they are pre-images of the corresponding S values, or y values. They may not be efficiently computable, but in the proof of security, we do not really want to compute them. The only thing we need is their existence. Previously, I just showed you the 1-way function construction. To have a proof-based 1-way function, we also need a zero-knowledge protocol computing this function we just defined. In this slide, I will first give you an interactive proof protocol, and later I will show how to add zero-knowledge property. If you stare at this construction for a second, it is not hard to see how can we have an interactive protocol computing it. So first, the sender passed X into the corresponding X and beta part. Then it makes Oracle queries to learn Y1 through Yn, hey send Y1 through Yn to the receiver. Here, since we also have an additional beta part, the sender will also send the beta. The third step is to compute this random subset. In the protocol, we simply ask the receiver to send the set R as a challenge. At this moment, the sender knows both X and R, so he can perform the step 4, as in the description of the function. Now the sender simply sends these values to the receiver. At the end of the protocol, you can verify that the receiver can output this value, and the sender simply outputs his input X and the R part he learns from the receiver. Now the only thing left is that we want to make this protocol zero-knowledge. Up to now, this protocol is only a simple cut and choose protocol together with our pre-image editing. As you can see, this cut and choose step does not review any extra information regarding the pre-image of the one function. So the only information we need to head to achieve ZK is actually the fact, whether we are in the editing case or a non-editing case. To do that, we will use the black box commit and prove. Recall that to see if we are in the editing case and the non-editing case, we need to use both the beta part and the Y value. And this information is embedded in the first-round message. To hide this information, instead of sending the first-round message in plain, we use the commit stage of the black box commit and prove. In the third step, the receiver can still check the consistency between the pre-image and image on the positions specified by the set R. However, there is no guarantee that the Y values are indeed the Y values committed at the beginning.  Importantly, this BB proof stage only proves statements about Y and S. It has nothing to do with the relation between pre-image X and Y. Actually, the consistency between X and Y pairs is checked by the receiver outside of this BB proof. Therefore, this BB proof stage has nothing to do with the R call only function small f. Now let me briefly summarize our construction of the proof-based only function. We start with a simple cut-and-choose protocol. This protocol is not good enough because we wanted to guarantee the existence of a pre-image. However, if we are using this protocol, there could still be a delta-bed fraction in the pre-image. So our idea is to try to embed the delta-bow into the domain of the one function. To do that, we introduce a new idea called pre-image editing. The editing case will not happen in the real execution of the protocol. That's because there is an R part controlled by the verifier. If the verifier picks the R part randomly, the editing case won't have an acceptable negligible probability. But now, the security reduction can make use of this editing case. Intuitively, it plants the k-values from the output Y into the pre-image X. Since there are at most k-bed positions, we can effectively correct all of them. To add the z-key property, we rely on a black box commit and proof. It is important to notice that this proof stage does not make use of the code of the protocol small f. Now we've shown how to construct proof-based one function. A proof-based PRG can be built in a similar way. We will not talk about it. As mentioned at the beginning of this talk, we also want to construct proof-based hash functions. However, it turns out that this construction requires new idea. Let me explain the reason why our technique for proof-based one function doesn't work directly. Recall that in the proof-based one function construction, we introduced this pre-image editing idea. It essentially introduced multiple images for a single Y. This actually violates the cleaning resistance requirement if you want a CRHF. To see why, first notice that the protocol is fine, because in the execution of the protocol, there is an R-part controlled by the receiver. If the receiver picks this R-part uniformly random, the editing case will not be triggered, except for negligible probability. So a malicious sender cannot make use of this. However, remember that our proof-based notion also have a construction of the function. The function is where the problem happened. More specifically, a PPT algorithm can easily construct two inputs. Both of them trigger the editing condition and hash to the same value. An adversary can do this, because when evaluating the function, there is no receiver. The single adversary can control the whole part of the function to solve this problem. We will embed a random string Z in the publish-hashing key. And we change the condition for editing case. We add one more condition. This condition says you can trigger the editing case, only if you know a pre-image of D under the Oracle hash function. As we know, a PPT-003 cannot figure out the pre-image of Z. Therefore, it cannot make use of the editing case. However, our security proof personas can always make use of this editing case. This is how we create the asymmetry between the other three and our security election. Unfortunately, I cannot talk more about our construction for hash function. If you are interested, please refer to our paper. Let me give a summary of this talk. In this work, we generalize the notion of functional black box zero knowledge proposed by Drosulac. We show that Drosulac's impossibility result still holds for our generalized notion. Specifically, we show that black box proof-based PRD is impossible. Next, we relax the proof-based notion by splitting the input and let the receiver control the R part a bit. Then we show that for this split input proof-based notion, when we function PRG and the collision-resistant hash functions become possible. Our work actually raises more interesting questions. As we mentioned before, we are only able to show the impossibility of proof-based PRG, I mean without splitting the input. We take this as a strong evidence for the impossibility for a proof-based one-way function, but it is interesting to see an actual proof for this impossibility. Also, this work inspires us to ask a more general question. That is, can we give black box zero knowledge proof for any polynomial-sized circuits? More concretely, consider this example. Let's say we have a circuit C, it can be decomposed into three parts. The input X will first go through a sub-circuit C1 that is crypto-free, and then a one-way function gate is evaluated on the output of C1. The output of the one-way function will go through another crypto-free sub-circuit C2 to give us the final output Y. It will be interesting if we can have a zero-knowledge protocol for the certifiability of this circuit while making only black box access to one-way function. Jojolek's impossibility result says this is impossible. That's because we cannot even have a black box zero knowledge for this one-way function gate, let alone the whole circuit. But our proof-based notion gave us some hope. The idea here is to replace the one-way function by its proof-based alternative. The result in our work gives a black box zero knowledge proof for this crypto gate. It will be very interesting to extend our idea to eventually give a black box zero knowledge proof for the whole circuit. Now we are at the end of this talk. Thanks for your attention, and more details can be found in the full version of this paper here.